# "Rinsing" dirt first (like other substrates)



## TeutonJon78 (Nov 10, 2004)

So I'm thinking of going with NPT for my tank (recently moved and starting fresh), and had a quick question.

I looked at what dirt I have at home, and I have a bag of the Earthgro topsoil from Home Despot that people seem to have good luck with (but I don't know the exact composition in the NW). I was doing a bottle test and found something interesting. I didn't use the gravel over for the water because I was just going to do this fast. Anyway, after about 2 days of sitting, there has been almost no settling of the silt/dirt in the water column. Plus, there are a lot of little floaty twigs. So, I pored it to a separate jar and refilled gently, and again pored that out. When I filled the next time, the water was a lot clearer.

So here's the question...is it good to "wash" the dirt to make sure you get all of the floaty bits and really small particles removed? I would think that this fine grade of dirt is what would cause the most compaction in the long run, not the bigger stuff. Plus, I don't think removing the really really fine stuff would affect the nutrient levels that much (total guess).

I'm probably going to use my used Eco-complete mixed in/on top of the dirt since I have 40 lbs of it sitting around. I'd like to use Flourite, but that would be another purchase.

So...to rinse or not to rinse?


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## sb483 (May 29, 2006)

I've never rinsed dirt (sounds like it would get pretty messy) but during my setup I dumped a 1" layer of dirt in the tank, evened it out with my hand, covered it with gravel, and poured water right into the tank (on top of a plate laid on the gravel to break the force of the flow). The next day I scooped out the twigs that floated to the surface by hand, and that was it. I don't think there's any need to add water to the soil beforehand.


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## rohape (Feb 7, 2005)

In doing my test bowl, I had the same issue. Once I added the gravel and carefully filled the bowl I had no issues with clarity. But I was curious on the rinsing issue, if it should be done or not, or makes no difference.


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## TeutonJon78 (Nov 10, 2004)

Maybe I will clarify my "rinse procedure"...

1. gently fill container with water
2. scoop off floating things (sticks or whatever you have)
3. (maybe) let sit to allow more soil to soak
4. gently pour water off as much as possible without disturbing soil
5. repeat #4 as much as you like or until the water is clear
6. use soil

I did two water pours of the test bottle and then the water was mostly clean. In the jar I poured the water to (done this morning), it still looks like light brown soup with little signs of settling down. The soil water is mostly clear and I can see little bubbles forming on the soil. So at least for my soil, it seems like it would need the rinsing in order to not make my water murky for a long time.

Of course, mechanical filtration would help with that too. For the conservation conscious, you could even pour the dirty water through a paper towel or something similar. Then you could reuse the clean water for rinsing and dry the towel out and use the extra dirt dust in the garden.

But, as rohape mentioned and my original question, is it OK to do this, or am I bleeding off precious nutrients? I'm inclined to say it is ok and even beneficial from a soil packing perspective due to remove of fine particulate matter.


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## rohape (Feb 7, 2005)

TeutonJon78 said:


> I would think that this fine grade of dirt is what would cause the most compaction in the long run, not the bigger stuff.


I had never thought of this point, but it makes sense, kind of like sand. Plus with 1.5" of gravel, and the water weight pressing down on it. I'm just kind of rambling here.


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## TeutonJon78 (Nov 10, 2004)

I have attached a picture of the experiment as it stands.

2007-2-4 - started in the afternoon
2007-2-6 - rinsed and separate in the morning

The picture is from 2007-2-6. The bottle on the left is the soil and water after initial soak and one additional rinse --notice the nice little bubbles. The bottle on the right is the water I drained off (minus what I lost in the sink). It has a very brown color that is not from tannins (I know what tannin water looks like). and now, some of the fine dirt has settled out a little. Now mind you, this is all from the one little handful of dirt. I couldn't imagine this after having an 1" of it in the tank without rinsing.

The color/consistency of the water in the right bottle is how the water has looked since I initially put water into the dirt. The floating stick pieces have just been thrown away.


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## rohape (Feb 7, 2005)

When I started my test, at first I had no gravel in, and it looked horrible too. After adding the gravel the water was clear, minus minor bits floating. When you add the gravel it should cut way down on the staining for sure. I had read also, that some people wait a day or so, do a water change to get rid of the initial ammo, and debris issues. This is what I plan on doing too.

Still your good questions remain, will we lose nutrients with a rinsing, and will there be extra compacting without rinsing.


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## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

I don't think you will loose anything by rinsing the soil, but I also don't think you need to do it. If you just fill the container and drain off without disturbing the soil then you only rinsed the top layer. when you move it into the tank you will have a new top layer and I think the same problem. I place a strip of gravel around the edge so the soil doesn't show, and place the soil in and slightly compact it with my hand, then cover with at least 1.5" of gravel. now your soil is contained under the gravel. add the water very slowly, I use the small airline tubing and siphon from a bucket above the tank and add the water to the bucket so I'm not pouring it in the tank. Start it in a corner and take your time the slow trickle of water will slowly saturate the soil across the tank and not disturb anything. After I have filled my tanks, unless I screwed up, the water is clear. once you have a couple inches of water I move to the saucer on the bottom to pour into. Just don't get in a hurry and stir up the soil and you should be Ok.

Brian


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Very interesting topic. I don't know the answer, but I can have fun playing devil's advocate on two points :



TeutonJon78 said:


> I would think that this fine grade of dirt is what would cause the most compaction in the long run, not the bigger stuff.


I'm not sure this is true. Whether something floats or sinks is dependent on it's density, not it's overall size. So, tiny silty particles will sink and large chunks of wood/bark/compost will float. In fact, by rinsing the soil you might actually exacerbate any potential compaction problem by removing the light airy stuff and leaving behind the dense silty stuff. The light stuff in your aquarium soil might serve the same purpose as perlite/vermiculite does in potting soils for houseplants (i.e. prevent compaction).

That said, I'm not really sure you need to worry much about soil compaction anyhow in a planted tank. With healthy growth, plant roots should take care of any potential problems either way, I imagine.



TeutonJon78 said:


> Plus, I don't think removing the really really fine stuff would affect the nutrient levels that much (total guess).


I would venture a guess that the fine stuff that floats contains quite a bit of nutrients. I imagine the floating fines are largely organic materials. Rinsing away these materials might only put a small dent on overall aquarium nutrients though, especially once the tank settles in. So again, maybe not a big deal either way.

If it were me, I wouldn't rinse the soil unless I knew it to be excessively fertile. I'd just as soon keep those goodies in there. Like bpimm said, if you cap it with gravel and fill carefully, you will have clear water whether you rinse first or not.


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## onemyndseye (May 12, 2006)

I just wanted to add that fine soils will not compact like sand (unless they are mosly sand anyways)... 

I shift all my soils through an old window screen to the point that all "trash" is removed and I'm left with nothing but a dark, silty like soil... 

I cant really think of much to compare the texture to (other than river silt).... sort of like fine ground corn meal... or Seed Starter soils like nuserys use (which is just sifted topsoil..with maybe some extra peat) ... and I have a large amount of sand in my mixture....

It stays nice and "flowy" under the subrate.... like old creek mud 

Take Care,
-Justin
One Mynds Eye


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## treesmcdonald (Mar 14, 2006)

TeutonJon78 said:


> Maybe I will clarify my "rinse procedure"...
> 
> 1. gently fill container with water
> 2. scoop off floating things (sticks or whatever you have)
> ...


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## TeutonJon78 (Nov 10, 2004)

Well, my method was slightly different...I'm rinsing the dirt before putting it into the aquarium.

So, here's an alteration of what I did. 

1. fill container with water and make sure to swirl around the dirt
2. scoop off floating things (sticks or whatever you have)
3. let sit to allow more soil to soak
4. gently pour water off as much as possible without disturbing soil
5. reuse the water to rinse again (yes, you're using "dirty water", but I'm trying to conserve dirt and water while preventing turbitiy). I used two batches of water to rinse the dirt so as to have some clean water going into the mix
6. move the good stuff to another container
7. SAVE dirty water and let it sit (for a few days). This will allow the smaller yet denser particles to settle to the bottom and be saved.
8. poor off the turbid dirty water that won't settle and save the good stuff
9. repeat 7-8 as long as you want before you setup

So, this method is a good pain in the but, but with the jar test I did, I knew there would be a lot of floating bark/sticks and some turbid water. But, this method does seem to work fairly to clean up a turbid soil. The Earthgro brand topsoil in the NW does have a large amount of bark in it. Hopefully, it won't cause long term problems.

I will be starting a treat covering my tank setup and such.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

I do something like rinsing to the soil before I use it. I soak it well, making sure to mix it in with the water in a rubbermaid tub. I then let it settle out for a couple days and change the water on top. Then I add more water and repeat this several times. This helps to 'rinse' any fertilizers and such that might be in the soil.


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