# [Wet Thumb Forum]-90 Gallon Setup



## blang (Jan 4, 2006)

OK, here is my first planted tank. It is 2.4wpg, 1/2 flourite, 1/2 gravel and no CO2. I plan to add more plants but keep the same type of look as you see in the picture. I do have a problem with bright green hair algae on the glass and overflow, but it seems to settle down 2 weeks after a water change.

I've been reading Diana Walstad's book "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" and it has inspired me to keep on trying to keep this tank as a low tech tank. I plan to experiment with some of her techniques.


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## KRiley (Jun 30, 2005)

Nice tank! I cant wait to see it grown in. Looks like your doing good so far. BTW beware of smaller fish with that overflow...I have heard some horror stories.


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## blang (Jan 4, 2006)

So far, I've had 2 fish "disappear". One was a one inch pleco. I think he was eaten. The other was a 2 inch SAE. He was there one day and gone the next. I have found several baby snails in the sump.

Thanks for the compliment. I will post another picture in a few weeks as I add plants/


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

What is that beautiful red fish?


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## blang (Jan 4, 2006)

That's a New Guinea Rainbow Fish.


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## Tankman (Feb 19, 2006)

Lovely rainbow. You should get more of them, your tank can support the sizes which they will grow to


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Nice Tank and a pleasure to see some Rainbowfish. These are my favorite fish!

The tank looks nice. However, without a soil layer releasing CO2 (via decomposition of organic matter), I predict that your plants will be fairly CO2-limited.

Do everything you can to conserve CO2. Feed fish well, minimize water changes and filtration, etc. Make sure that your water has alkalinity (KH above 6-8), so that plants can get some carbon from bicarbonates.

To prevent algae problems, I would add floating plants to this tank.


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## blang (Jan 4, 2006)

I have 4 rainbow fish in that tank. I was planning to add 4 Popondetta Blue-eyed but when I picked them up they were only babies. They will either remain in my 10 gallon or I will move them over in about 6 months or so when they are bigger. These are my first rainbow fish and they are so much fun to watch. They are extremely friendly and active.

Yes, I definately plan to get some more floating plants. I will also get a test kit to test where my KH is at.


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## blang (Jan 4, 2006)

Here are the results of my tests:

KH 4
GH 11

For the heck of it, I tested my tap water and my KH was 7.

Besides needing more carbon, what does this mean.

I know I have to add more floating plants which I plan to do within the next couple of weeks. I'm also hoping that my dennison barbs will come in soon which will increase my fish load.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

With a GH =11, I'm not sure that you need to add anything to the water... except plenty of fishfood.

It doesn't matter that you have so few fish for this tank. Just add more fishfood; the extra food will be decomposed by bacteria into nutrients plants can use (Bacteria can produce same results as extra fish in generating CO2 and plant nutrients from fishfood). It helps if you have snails to break down the food into smaller particles that bacteria can better digest.


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## blang (Jan 4, 2006)

Thanks for your response. I still plan to add the additional fish as the dennison barbs and rainbow shark are the ones that I have always wanted to have. 

I am assuming that you still would recommend additional floating plants, correct?

So there is no need to worry about CO2?

What kind of snails would you recommend? I have two ramhorns that I see once or twice a week. I also have three yoyo loaches so I am surprised the snails are still around. Wouldn't they normally go after any snail?

It's really hard to feed extra food to the fish as my rainbow fish are such pigs. I throw quite a bit of pellets in the tank in the morning, hoping they get down to the ground feeders but the rainbows get all of the food before it is halfway down. In the evening, they either get bloodworms or algae wafers so the others have a chance to eat and I suppose the plants also.


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## blang (Jan 4, 2006)

Just wanted to give you an update:

I did a water change this weekend of about 15-20 percent and for the first time, it didn't intiate an algae outbreak. I was thrilled. Some of my plants have spot algae on them and the ludwigia looks very sad. It needs something but I'm not sure what. I cut my iron dose in half so I am not sure it needs to be increased or there is something else going on. Last week I didn't dose iron at all so I'm not sure if that is the problem or not.

I spoke to my LFS a couple of days ago and asked my main contact if he had heard of Diana Walstad. He hadn't but when I started talking about A Natural Aquarium he knew exactly what I was talking about. His comment was that I would need more plants and a lot less fish than I have and want to get to be successful. He then recommended that I look into getting a CO2 system called "Carbo-Plus". He had heard good things about it but would have to talk to another guy in the store who was much familiar with the product. From the research that I have read about it, the opinions are split. This might be a good option for me.


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## whiskey (Oct 9, 2004)

If you want to try CO2 without spending much money, drill a hole in the top of a 2 leiter bottle cap, insert a air line into this hole. Run the other end of the air line, so any bubbles that come through this hose go into your return pump, or filter to get chopped up by the pump.

Then take the 2 leiter bottle and put in it 2 cups of sugar, 1/4 tsp of yeast, and fill it to the top of the label with warm water and shake. Then screw the cap with the air line on and leave the bottle sitting upright.

As the yeast do their thing C02 will be created, not great amounts but enough to make a diffrence, this will travel down the hose and bubble into the pump, where it mixes the co2 with the water. (it might take a couple of hours to start producing.

This is a cheap way to find out if you want CO2 or if you would rather stick with the natural methods described in the book. 

Whiskey

P.S. never alow the air line to become plogged or close off the container with the yeast in it, because the pressure will build until the bottle pops like a soda spraying the nasty smelling liquad everywhere.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

> Originally posted by blang:
> Just wanted to give you an update:
> 
> I did a water change this weekend of about 15-20 percent and for the first time, it didn't intiate an algae outbreak. I was thrilled. Some of my plants have spot algae on them and the ludwigia looks very sad. It needs something but I'm not sure what. I cut my iron dose in half so I am not sure it needs to be increased or there is something else going on. Last week I didn't dose iron at all so I'm not sure if that is the problem or not?


Iron fertilizers can, indeed, cause algae problems-- and a little algae smothering can make Ludwigia very sad.

With an iron-rich fluorite substrate, you shouldn't need to add additional iron-- except possibly for floating plants. Iron fertilizers are designed for tanks with CO2 injection (the plants grow so fast that they may need additional iron). Using less than the recommended amount is a good idea.

It sounds like your tank is doing fine. A few floating plants and a little less iron fertilizer may be all it needs.

That's nice that you're feeding your Rainbowfish so well. Mine are still jumping out of the water every morning for flakefood. So easy to please!


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## blang (Jan 4, 2006)

Boy, if I can really make this tank successful I will be very excited. I can't tell you how many people have told me that I have to have CO2 for a tank of this size.

I'm going to pick up some more floaters this week and even decrease the iron more and see if that cuts down on the algae on some of my plants. Thanks for all your help. I will keep you posted at let you know how things go.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

I think that you are on the right track.

I think you should add more fish, not fewer, and before you invest in the "Carbo Plus" system you chould check it out in Google. There are far more negatives than positives in the postings.

Good luck.

Bill


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## blang (Jan 4, 2006)

Yes, I've already done that. 

Yes, I plan to add more fish. It will be a fully stocked tank.


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## blang (Jan 4, 2006)

Well, some of my plants are not doing well. Here are my current test results:

Nitrates 20
Phosphates .25
KH 3
GH 9

The nitrates were much higher than the above so I did a 30-35% water change. Since my last post I have added two more plants and added some more floating plants.

My Aluminum Plant is dying. The leaves are turning dark green and then falling off. My Ludwiga and Hygrophilia look very sad. 

I've been a little inconsistant with my dosing as far as amounts. Right now I am planning on dosing just a little iron and that's it. 

Will I be able to bring back my Ludwiga? It has algae on it and the older leaves are curling. It seems to be growing. I cut off a small branch and replanted it but so far, it hasn't grown at all. The Hygrophila is curling, some white leaves and has extremely slow growth.

Figuring out what nutrients you need is so frustrating.


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## blang (Jan 4, 2006)

Never mind about the aluminum plant. I just found out it isn't a true aquatic plant. I purchased this plant from an LFS which is supposedly one of the best plant stores around....I guess not.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Blang, I'd consider this tank a little tricky to maintain, since you're using a fluorite substrate without CO2 injection. It's not an ideal combination, because there's not enough organic matter in the substrate to generate natural CO2. 

Many stem plants (especially Ludwigia) can't use bicarbonates; they can only use CO2. They will be the most vulnerable in your tank. I would not expect Ludwigia to do well.

Your KH of 3 indicates that you have some bicarbonates in the water-- good. I would make sure that your tank has plants that can use bicarbonates. Vallisneria, Myriophyllum, Crytpocoryne balansae, C. wendtii, Amazon swordplant, etc.

The trick will be whether they will like the fluorite substrate? 

My advice to beginners has always been to buy as many plant species as you can afford and stick them in the tank. Let the plants sort it out. When you try to aquascape (choose plants that fit an artificial picture of what looks good), you may end up with dead plants and algae.

Your primary goal for now should be to learn which plants grow well in this tank.


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## blang (Jan 4, 2006)

Well, this really explains why some of my plants are doing well and why some aren't. I wish there was a list of some sort on which plants use bicarbonate and which plants need carbon. In any event, I guess I am going to go plant shopping and start replacing the couple of plants that look sad.

Diana, you have really helped me out and each response by you gives me a better understanding on how I need to proceed. I will keep you posted.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

You are very welcome. 
Enjoy your plant shopping!


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