# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Whats Missing and Dosage?



## imported_Austin (Nov 8, 2004)

Greetings all, I hope everyone is starting to enjoy the upcoming festive season, and I wish you all the best.

I currently have a 35 gal tank up for about 2-3 weeks now and I am unsure on a few things with regards to fertilizing the plants.

Here is what i am cirrently expericing, some of my plants have lost some their green and gone to a yellowish brown namely on my Echinodorus Subalatus.

On the foreground Micranthemum Umbrosum, they appear to be rooting but there is a brownish almost film or rotting on some of them as well.

On the right side the Rotala SP needles are becoming brown as well.

Im not sure if this is due to lack of nutrients or an algae taking hold.

There also appears to be some green algae on the rocks in the middle very minor and only on the top rocks.

Here are some numbers from testing this morning.

PH 7.2
Nitrate 7.5ppm
GH 120 mg/l
KH 60 mg/l
Phosphate 0
Iron 0

Lighting 96watts 12 hours/day
Substrate Seachem Fourite

Fertilizers

10ml Tropica Master Gro 1/week
Seachem Flourish Excel 3ml every other day (just started)
Seachem Flourish Potassium 5ml 2 times /week ( just started)


CO2 Still using the hagen system which I know is too small for the tank, although I am getting a large amount of bubble diffusion currently in the 10-15 bubbles per minute range.

And if reading the charts right I beleive I am around 7 ppm for CO2 ( please correct me if I am wrong )

So going by the above info can anyone suggest if I am missing anything or if I am doing too much.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## imported_Austin (Nov 8, 2004)

Greetings all, I hope everyone is starting to enjoy the upcoming festive season, and I wish you all the best.

I currently have a 35 gal tank up for about 2-3 weeks now and I am unsure on a few things with regards to fertilizing the plants.

Here is what i am cirrently expericing, some of my plants have lost some their green and gone to a yellowish brown namely on my Echinodorus Subalatus.

On the foreground Micranthemum Umbrosum, they appear to be rooting but there is a brownish almost film or rotting on some of them as well.

On the right side the Rotala SP needles are becoming brown as well.

Im not sure if this is due to lack of nutrients or an algae taking hold.

There also appears to be some green algae on the rocks in the middle very minor and only on the top rocks.

Here are some numbers from testing this morning.

PH 7.2
Nitrate 7.5ppm
GH 120 mg/l
KH 60 mg/l
Phosphate 0
Iron 0

Lighting 96watts 12 hours/day
Substrate Seachem Fourite

Fertilizers

10ml Tropica Master Gro 1/week
Seachem Flourish Excel 3ml every other day (just started)
Seachem Flourish Potassium 5ml 2 times /week ( just started)


CO2 Still using the hagen system which I know is too small for the tank, although I am getting a large amount of bubble diffusion currently in the 10-15 bubbles per minute range.

And if reading the charts right I beleive I am around 7 ppm for CO2 ( please correct me if I am wrong )

So going by the above info can anyone suggest if I am missing anything or if I am doing too much.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

your co2 is too low, which you know. you should try making a diy system. check the "build it and they will come" section of this fourm. i have a 30 gal tank, and i am getting around 1 bubble/sec with a diy system. i've never had the problem, but i think you can raise your kh, and that would probably help you out too.

i will need someone to double check this, but i think you can order calcuim carbonate from www.gregwatson.com and that will raise your kh. i checked, and with a ph of 7.2 your kh would need to be 196ppm to have the desired ~20ppm of co2.

if you have a good light kit, you might consider only running it for 10 hours or so.

as for your ferts, they look good to me. someone else can probably help you better with that.

do any of your ferts have iron?


----------



## imported_Austin (Nov 8, 2004)

Thanks Russel

I believe the Master Gro does provide trace amounts of Iron from what I am told.

As for the KH Level what does 60 mg/l amount too in PPM?


----------



## dissident (Sep 6, 2005)

Raising your Kh with calcium carbonate will _not_ increase your ppm of CO2. You have to increase your CO2 in the tank with CO2. The PH/Kh chart does nto work with outside buffers, adjusting PH and KH through chemicals or other substances will not effect your CO2.


----------



## imported_Austin (Nov 8, 2004)

Thanks for the replies so far.

As for the CO2 I will be upgrading that to a pressurized system shortly in order to get the CO2 levels in the right range with my KH the way it is.

As for the my other concerns and plant situation can anyone shed some light on what im issing or whats wrong beyond CO2, or is what I am experiencing CO2 related?


----------



## imported_Fred (Feb 1, 2003)

Austin,
mg/l = ppm... 60ppm(mg/l) KH is ~ 3.5 dKH.

You need to up your CO2... your KH is fine BTW
As Dissident pointed out, altering your KH or pH does *not* raise your CO2 levels... enough CO2 will however lower your pH. You want to add enough CO2 to drop your pH to 6.6~6.8.
For some very useful info check out the Articles on Chuck Gadd's site.

Fred


----------



## mm12463 (Mar 5, 2004)

One thing I noticed and we just talked about it in chat is the lack of any phosphate in your dosing. With a zero reading of PO4 the plants are not getting a balanced meal. 

Without the phos I believe the plants will have a hard time using the other nutrients. If that is correct then I would guess there are a lot of nutrients in the water flowing around that the algae can use and grab hold.

A source of phos is Fleet Enema, many commerical brands like the Florish phosphate and KH2PO4 (Potassium Phosphate). All depends what you want to buy and works for you.

Maybe someone else can jump in and make sure I'm not wrong.


----------



## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

sry bout that.


----------



## imported_Fred (Feb 1, 2003)

Good point Mike... glossed right over the lack of PO4. I dose .5ml of Fleet in my 20g 2~3 weekly. Cannot comment on the Master Grow but if I recall correctly when I used Seachem's K I was adding ~ 20ml weekly, this again in a 20g. You may want to up your K dosage.

Fred


----------



## imported_Austin (Nov 8, 2004)

Hey all


Heres an update I added some Kent Botanic Phos, my only concern is the packaging was extremely vague as to any amount on which to add.

It did show a ratio of 10 to 20:1 for N now if I am understanding this correctly this would mean with my Nitrate at 7.5 I should have a P of .75

Now seeing as there is no dosing instructions I will do a gradual addition. Until the levels hit target.

My next question is with regards to keeping it there. I have no problem doing daily dosing, I am curious on the ammounts as most from directs say 2~3 times / week to once a week to every other day.

If I go daily dosing do I just divide the amounts by there scheduled days? or will this cause a lack of nutrients?

Thanks again

Austin


----------



## mm12463 (Mar 5, 2004)

I still use Botanica on one my tanks.

Here is what I figured out based on what was on the back of the label of mine.

Kent's P	
Lets say you have a 10 gallon to make math easy which is 37.583 liters.
1 ml of Botanica Phos = 4.63 mg/liter or ppm
So 1 ml in the 10 gallon = 0.12 mg/liter or ppm

What I do on that tank is weekly water change. Test my tank. Dose based on that. After a while you get used it, kind of know what the tank needs and you won't need to dose as often. I still test often though.

You could always just toss in 0.5 ppm every few days or something and that should take care of things. With a weekly water change, it would be difficult for a build up. Keep in mind also that if you went to 1ppm P and only had 7.5 ppm N, its not the end of the world. It will get used.


----------



## imported_Austin (Nov 8, 2004)

Thanks Mike, great help

I will monitor it and add slowly.

How often does everyone dose there tanks anyways? Weekly? Daily? Etc Etc


----------



## imported_Austin (Nov 8, 2004)

Here is another update, this is what I have devised as a daily does for the 35 gallon, would value any input here is some levels are off.

7.5ml Kent Phos+ ( testing daily at noon to watch for any spikes in levels )
2.5 ml Flourish Excel
2.0 ml Flourish Potassium
1.5 ml Tropica Master Gro

The levels in the tank have not changed much since these additions the Phos that was added yesterday only registered as .20 ppm from 0.

What I am doing is watching the algae on the rocks too seee if there is any changes, the algae is green with a hint of brown spots and doesnt come off easy, the pleco and SAE dont seem to dent it. However the brownish Film/markings on the Rotala SP are clearing up as well as on the grass and foreground plants.


----------



## mm12463 (Mar 5, 2004)

Sounds like a plan. Just watch your dosing and test and see if daily makes sense. It may end up being to much and you might switch a every other day. I dose on tank weekly, another every day. The every day tank get's only 3ppm N, .3 ppm PO4 and about 3 ppm K each day. That one I use the raw chemicals make my own doses. It find it WAY cheaper then the commercial products and you can make your own customized solutions.

Just keep an eye things. Watching the plants and algae can be a good indication of how things may or may not be going. Watch your CO2 also. If you can get a 2 liter pop bottle and feed that with your Hagen setup you could hit that 30ppm CO2 and things will go very well. Just remember good light, good CO2 and good ferts and the plants will prosper. It's just a game to manage it.


----------

