# What am I doing wrong with my planted aquarium?



## Dprime

Hi guys,

I recently started my first planted tank with 4 Discus and a range of other smaller fish, but my plants just don't seem to be doing very well.

The tank has been running for around a month now. It has 2 x 20watt T8 tubes, 1x white & 1x blue. Its 125 liters and its current water specs are:

General Hardness: 60ppm 
Carbonate Hardness: 80ppm 
pH: around 6.5 
Nitrite: Basically 0ppm 
Nitrate: Again, basically 0ppm

The lights and filter are on a timer, and turn on at 7am and switch off at 10pm (15 hours)

I have C02 being injected into the aquarium via a yeast bottle with a airstone located near the intake of the filter.

I perform a 15 Litre water change around every 4-5 days and I ad 20mls of "SERA" florena fertilizer with each water change.

So basically, the leaves on some of the plants are dying and turning yellow and eventually going clear and falling off.. and also black moss is apparent on some of the plants.

I was told if I ad c02 the plants would thrive, and while some of the plants are growing some new leaves, the plants as a hole don't seem to be thriving.

Am I giving it TO MUCH light?
could it be my c02 isn't being absorbed into the water with that method?
not enough fertilizer?

Does anyone have any suggestions? 
Any help would be throughly appreciated.

Thanks,
Brett

Below are some images of the aqaiurm a week ago, I've since added some more plants along the bottom and a Java fern in the wood. I'll update a more current pic soon.


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## Bert H

Hey Brett, first off, welcome to the forum! If I did my math correctly, you have 40W of lighting on a 32 gallon tank, which is not a lot of lighting, but it does look like Anubias makes up the bulk of your planting. Anubias won't require much lighting, so that's good. The blue light, however, you should probably change out.

In case you haven't seen these, here's a couple of references you should find helpful:

http://www.aquatic-plants.org/articles/basics/pages/index.html
http://http://www.rexgrigg.com/
http://http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/new-planted-aquariums/14684-new-tank-setup-guide-parts-1-a.html


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## kimcadmus

Dprime said:


> The lights and filter are on a timer, and turn on at 7am and switch off at 10pm (15 hours)
> 
> I have C02 being injected into the aquarium via a yeast bottle with a airstone located near the intake of the filter.


I agree with Bert about changing out the blue bulb especially since you have low light on the tank.

I am a little confused about the filter being turned off with a timer. What kind of filter do you have. From the pictures it looks like maybe a power head on an undergravel filter or a HOB in the hood. It also looks like you may have air tubing running to the powerhead output which would I would recommend against since it will essentially contribute to dispersing the CO2 from the water.

Plant leaves which go turn yellow and go clear are often suffering from an iron deficiency.

Anubias is a slow growing plant so it doesn't easily outcompete algae so you want to find the right balance of light, ferts, co2. If suspect lights on too long then cut them back a bit. Whatever you do take it one step at a time and see what works then move on to the next.


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi Dprime,

I agree with Bert H, with about 1.3 watts per gallon you have a low light tank. Also your tank is a tall in proportion to its' length, which makes it difficult to get proper light intensity to the lower areas. The "blue" bulb, if it is actinic, is probably not helping growth at all, replace it with a 6700K (Daylight type) bulb and that should help plant growth.

Anubias are very, very slow growers. I usually see a new leaf on mine every 2-3 weeks or so, and everything in my tank is growing very well. You might try some java ferns, which also tolerate low light and Watersprite (Ceratopteris species) which I have grown in low light.

I did not see any mention of fertilizer, plants need nutrients to grow. I know that discus are very sensitive to water conditions, but you may be able to fertilizer using the PPS-Pro menthod. Here is a thread from the Fertilizing Forum that may help: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/pps-analysis-feedback/62077-pps-pro-discus.html


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## melauriga

If the filter is being turned off for several hours every day, won't that wreak havoc with the nitrifying bacteria?


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## Dprime

Thanks for the tips guys.

I'll replace that blue globe today and I'll buy a seperate timer so the light and filter are on seperate times. (longer for filter and shorter for light)

The tank is actually in my room, which is why unfortunately I have to switch it off over night, Its a little to noisy to have running while I'm trying to sleep.

The tank itself is one of the Aqua Nova style tanks if your familiar with that. The filter sucks water up from the intake on the bottom, through the power head, and then either up into the hood of the tank where I have my filter products which it runs through, or a small amount gets pushed out the nossle on the side where the tubing is, which sucks air down pushing bubbles out with it.

The second tubing you see in the picture is for the c02, they are both seperate. Does that make sense Kim?

I'm aware that when I change the globes the plants arn't going to change instantly, but how long so I give it before I make the decision that its either working or not working? Is a week long enough?


Thanks for all the help, I'm new to keeping plants and while there is alot of info on the net there is alot more you can get from personal experience, thanks.


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## Dprime

Ok so I went out and got 2 20w Daylight tubes and installed those. The tank definitely looks alot brighter and more vibrant with them. And I've changed the times so that the filter is on for 17 hours a day and the lights are on for 12 hours.

Heres a updated pic of what the tank looks like now.


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Wow Dprime!

What a difference! Give it a couple of weeks and you start seeing some changes. What are you doing for fertilizer? If you are using charcoal in your filter you may want to discontinue it's use, it will remove the nutrients that the plants need . BTW, regular water changes are good for discus and the plants.


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## WhiteDevil

Dprime, Fluval makes a new filter its their "U"series filter, its 100% internal.

http://www.hagen.com/usa/aquatic/product.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=107&PROD_ID=01004800021101

Its not bad, especially for planted tanks, has a spray bar that oscillates gets the leaves moving and I believe it has a 1/8" (airline size) jack on it for an air-line, Its jsut an idea, Beautiful discus by the way, they are very colorful.


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## Zapins

Dprime after reading this thread I was inspired to create a generic plant deficiency diagram showing various types of common deficiencies.

Without more close up pictures of the new and old growth of the affected plant(s) I would guess you have the beginnings to a moderate case of a nitrogen deficiency.

Since you have discus you shouldn't add too much nitrogen since it might stress them out, but I have it on good authority from other discus keepers that they can handle up to 10 ppm nitrate without stressing out. You can always keep it at 5 ppm if there is any worry of stressing them.


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## Dprime

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Wow Dprime!
> 
> What a difference! Give it a couple of weeks and you start seeing some changes. What are you doing for fertilizer? If you are using charcoal in your filter you may want to discontinue it's use, it will remove the nutrients that the plants need . BTW, regular water changes are good for discus and the plants.


I hope I didn't give you the impression that, that photo was taken as if the tank is fixed... I took that photo today, one day after I started this tread . The plants look good from far, but are far from good haha.

I'm using a product by "sera" called "florena", it says that it is a iron enriched fertilizer. I also had a very small bag of carbon that I have since removed after this topic (I was instructed by my LFS to have this in there). My filter now only consists of a product called "de nitrate, nitrate removal" (again, as instructed by my LFS).....


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## Dprime

Zapins said:


> Dprime after reading this thread I was inspired to create a generic plant deficiency diagram showing various types of common deficiencies.
> 
> Without more close up pictures of the new and old growth of the affected plant(s) I would guess you have the beginnings to a moderate case of a nitrogen deficiency.
> 
> Since you have discus you shouldn't add too much nitrogen since it might stress them out, but I have it on good authority from other discus keepers that they can handle up to 10 ppm nitrate without stressing out. You can always keep it at 5 ppm if there is any worry of stressing them.


Thanks Zapins, I'll look into that.

I'll post an update if I see any results from the changes made today. Thanks again.


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## jmontee

BTW I just wanted to say that although your discuss are small now they will soon be very large if they grow like they should. I have a 200L tank and I would hesitate putting 4 discus plus other fish in my tank. If they are being fed what they need then they will put out a lot of organic matter and water changes will be needed at least twice a week IMO. I would also remove the nitrate rmover because your plants will need it to grow. You will also need macro and micronutrients for the plants.


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## Zapins

jmontee said:


> .... I would also remove the nitrate rmover because your plants will need it to grow. You will also need macro and micronutrients for the plants.


I agree. Just keep up with your water changes and the discus will be fine.


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## Dprime

So what would you guys recommend to have in the filter? I should have asked here first instead of my Lfs, probably would have saved myself quite a bit of money.


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## freshfins

Hi Dprime,

I think you're headed for trouble by turning off the filter. There are several things that can and probably will go wrong when you leave the filter off for hours. Off the top of my head, your O2 levels drop, you won't get a sufficient amount of bacteria growing in the filter because it dies off every night, and heat coming from your heater won't get disbursed through the tank. All this leads to stressed fish that will get ill. You might have been able to get away with it if you only had a few small fish, but you won't get away with it for long with Discus.

Cristy


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## melauriga

freshfins said:


> Hi Dprime,
> 
> I think you're headed for trouble by turning off the filter. There are several things that can and probably will go wrong when you leave the filter off for hours. Off the top of my head, your O2 levels drop, you won't get a sufficient amount of bacteria growing in the filter because it dies off every night, and heat coming from your heater won't get disbursed through the tank. All this leads to stressed fish that will get ill. You might have been able to get away with it if you only had a few small fish, but you won't get away with it for long with Discus.
> 
> Cristy


I agree with this. The bacteria dying off can cause an ammonia spike, people have had this problem after power outages. Discus are particularly sensitive, but the other fish could have problems as well.


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## Zapins

It is common practice to keep just filter floss in the filter and no resins or activated carbon. This way circulation still keeps things from stagnating like people have already mentioned and allows nutrients to build up for the plants. The real problem when it comes to plants is adding resins like the nitrate remover to the tank or ammo lock products as these will scrub the water to 0 ppm. Activated carbon doesn't really remove nitrate too well at all so it can be kept in the filter if you like. 

What you will have to do is watch the tank carefully for the first week or two without the resins in and make sure that the nitrates don't spike above 10 ppm. If they do your discus will darken in coloration and refuse to eat so I suspect you will know rather quickly if something is off. 

Discus can be a bit more challenging to keep with aquatic plants since they are more finicky, but it can be done and many people on this forum do keep both successfully, its just about striking a balance between the two and keeping it.


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## Dprime

Zapins said:


> It is common practice to keep just filter floss in the filter and no resins or activated carbon. This way circulation still keeps things from stagnating like people have already mentioned and allows nutrients to build up for the plants. The real problem when it comes to plants is adding resins like the nitrate remover to the tank or ammo lock products as these will scrub the water to 0 ppm. Activated carbon doesn't really remove nitrate too well at all so it can be kept in the filter if you like.
> 
> What you will have to do is watch the tank carefully for the first week or two without the resins in and make sure that the nitrates don't spike above 10 ppm. If they do your discus will darken in coloration and refuse to eat so I suspect you will know rather quickly if something is off.
> 
> Discus can be a bit more challenging to keep with aquatic plants since they are more finicky, but it can be done and many people on this forum do keep both successfully, its just about striking a balance between the two and keeping it.


So basically the nitrate removal products are a good product for a discus aquarium, maintaining good water quality, but bad for a planted aquarium, removing things the plants need to survive?

So my options are (aside from the filter being switched off issue)

-changing the filter media to something more suited for a planted aquarium, and watching the ammonia and nitrate levels more closely,
-or leaving the current filter media, and having continuos issues with plants not surviving, and having to resort back to a non-planted aquarium...

Does that sound right?


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## freshfins

Dprime said:


> So basically the nitrate removal products are a good product for a discus aquarium, maintaining good water quality, but bad for a planted aquarium, removing things the plants need to survive?
> 
> So my options are (aside from the filter being switched off issue)
> 
> -changing the filter media to something more suited for a planted aquarium, and watching the ammonia and nitrate levels more closely,
> -or leaving the current filter media, and having continuos issues with plants not surviving, and having to resort back to a non-planted aquarium...
> 
> Does that sound right?


There is no absolute right or wrong way to handle this. Experiment with and without the resins and find what works for your tank. Try it without resins first. If your nitrates are a little high, add some faster growing plants. If they're sky high, add the resins - or better yet, do more water changes. Those nitrate removers also get pretty expensive because you have to keep replacing them often.


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## Zapins

Dprime said:


> So basically the nitrate removal products are a good product for a discus aquarium, maintaining good water quality, but bad for a planted aquarium, removing things the plants need to survive?


In a nutshell, yes. The great thing about plants is that they will naturally filter the water of pollutants, so by removing the resins you aren't necessarily going to damage the water quality. You may just need to add more plants, or experiment like freshfins mentioned.



Dprime said:


> -changing the filter media to something more suited for a planted aquarium, and watching the ammonia and nitrate levels more closely,


Yes, but you won't have to watch ammonia levels. Ammonia is absorbed by plants very quickly, and broken down by bacteria into nitrites then nitrates rather quickly too. If you feed heavily you will need to change the water more often and not leave uneaten food at the bottom of the tank.



Dprime said:


> -or leaving the current filter media, and having continuos issues with plants not surviving, and having to resort back to a non-planted aquarium...


Yes, plants need to eat too and if they don't get that food one way or another they will die. The problem with anubias that has been attached to driftwood is that it has no way to get nutrients other than through the water column.



Dprime said:


> Does that sound right?


Sounds good. Don't worry too much about things, you will find that fish and plants are really quite flexible and resilient, if something goes wrong it will most likely be fixable.

Remove the resins and just leave filter floss in the filter. Then measure the nitrates every 3 days or so, and remember to do weekly water changes like normal (or more often if that is your routine). Then let us know how things are looking and we can make adjustments from there.


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