# My fert experiment may interest you!



## TimboJones (Feb 29, 2008)

After a couple of years break from planted aquariums, I'm glad to see APC is bigger and better than ever. A credit to all involved. 
I saw reef tanks as a new challenge, and put my 10 gallon planted tank in the cupboard. The reef is beautiful and will stay but its systems are automatic so the challenge is somewhat diminished.
My last planted tank was Seachem dosing, CO2 injection etc etc. (I also use Seachem products in the Reef Tank). This time I am trying for a 'low tech' approach with a twist. A simple dosing regime using a hydroponic fertilizer. I thought the NPK ratios were OK so here goes.

*10 gallon tank*

Seachem Flourite +10 Flourish Tabs
2 x 15w T8 (1 Philips Aquarelle & 1 Hagen Aquaglow) 10 hours
Fluval 304 turned down 1/3 output, filter pads only no media
Seachem Excel 1ml per day
Manutec Hydroponic NPK + Chelated Trace 20mg in 250ml dosing 1.25 ml per day
1/3 tap water 2/3 RO/DI giving Ph 7.0 Gh 3.5 (50% WC per week)
2 Echinodorus uruguayensis
1 Echinodorus barthii
1 Anubias barteri on wood
2 Tiny Bristlenose catfish

*Comments.*
I will post new pics and test for NO3 Fe P every week and make +/- adjustments to dose if needed.
3 new leaves on Echinodorus barthii not pushing to top of tank though compact growth?
Echinodorus uruguaensis shooting new leaf a day
Image show deficency(maybe K or Mg) from older existing leaf
Glass clean not the slightest algae haze
Will scape tank adding more plants in time
Should be interesting to see what happens.

Thanks again, APC for hosting such a Great Site! (PPS is my inspiration for this experiment).
Comments Welcome.

Pictures 5 Days in.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I think hydroponic fertilizers contain ammonia or urea. If so, you have to be very careful using it to avoid causing an algae bloom. Potassium nitrate is more forgiving.


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## Squawkbert (Jan 3, 2007)

TimboJones said:


> The reef is beautiful and will stay but its systems are automatic so the challenge is somewhat diminished.


 If you want a reef challenge, add a little more LR - w/ stoamtopod, nudibranch & aiptasia hitchhikers!

But seriously, folks - your plants & tank are looking very nice, but I'm not sure why you'd have wanted to pick any of the living things you've chosen - except for the Anubias. Everything else will be exploding out of that tank very soon (well, BNPs don't grow that fast, but I wouldn't put them in a 10g either - how about some nice dwarf Cories or rasbora?).

Hoppy - w/ 1mL/day Excel, right off the bat, algae may not get started (which is why I didn't suggest trading BNPs in for Otos or shrimp). While I would also be worried about the N source in any non-aquatic ferts, I'm wondering, with 1 root tab per gallon, why bother adding any N to the water column at all? Ans I'm hoping that the substrate bed is pretty deep!

Good luck, I'm waiting & watching... opcorn:


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## TimboJones (Feb 29, 2008)

Hoppycalif,
thanks for your reply. By weight nitrate is 6.2% potassium nitrate and 1.4% mono ammonium phosphate. The fertilizer also had a Part B packed separately which was calcium nitrate. I thought this might add even more nitrate so I'm not using it, your thoughts?

Squawkbert,
thanks for your reply. I agree live rock is full of suprises I dip it in Paragaurd to get rid of agressive hitchhikers before putting it in the tank.
The fertilizer manufacturer says it promotes compact growth the 2 Echinodorus sp. will put that to the test. Wait and see?
You are right again I did overdose on the Flourish Tabs a bit, the Flourite is 2 1/2 - 3" deep
maybe to 50% weekly water changes can keep nitrate at acceptable levels will test weekly.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

You have very few plants in your aquarium, based on the photos, so you will not need to dose as much as most dosing schemes call for. I think if you dose lightly you will probably do okay. Calcium nitrate would be a good addition to the ferts. And, if you lose the phosphate at around 1/4 to 1/10th as much as the nitrate, the ammonium in it shouldn't be a problem. (Just my opinion.)


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## TimboJones (Feb 29, 2008)

hoppy,
your opinion helps a lot. i will use the calcium nitrate because when used as directed the analysis (ppm) is as follows

N 215.0
P 37.0
K 218.0
Ca 152.0
S 54.0
Mg 42.0
Fe 4.08
Mn 0.96
Zn 0.48 
Cu 0.36
B 0.036
Mo 0.012

that puts the N ratio into the range that you suggest. And gives a source of Ca as well.

Existing plants going great, NO algae, More plantings soon.

Thanks!


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## TimboJones (Feb 29, 2008)

Week 2 and I have new photos to share.

*Comments.*
Because the Echinodorus uruguayensis has been shooting new leaves daily I was using it as an indicator of nutrient deficiency. I was bit concerned on the 16th when 2 new leaves where coming up frail and twisted, I thought Calcium. Luckily this happened at the same day hoppycalif mentioned the calcium nitrate would be helpful. I've been adding a small pinch a day until I work how to dose. Since then new leaves are fine.
*NO3:* < 5mg/l
*PO4:* .25mg/l
*Fe:* Can't find my Fe test. Another excuse to visit LFS.

Added 3 new plants please help identifying them (1 may be Rotala sp.?) . Rushed in and bought them just before closing yesterday. Just growing plants at this stage no real method regarding placement.

Very happy with growth nothing really stretching to the top of the tank which is a welcome suprise and a mystery? Check photo of Echinodorus barthii 3 new bright red leaves. In the past when I've grown any Echinodorus spcies in this small tank new growth has gone straight up out of the tank?

Still no algae.

Because of limited choice in aquatic plants locally thinking of putting 2 Cryptocoryne sp. in foreground in the near future. Maybe Cryptocoryne Willisi towards front of tank and a few Cryptocoryne Wendtii Green close to the wood.

Having said that I would like to mention. http://www.aquaticdreams.com.au a great site I would hope to buy from soon.
And my LFS http://www.clayfieldaquarium.com.au a great range of plants and friendly advice from people who do know what they are talking about.

Any suggestions/questions most welcome. Happy Easter.


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## TimboJones (Feb 29, 2008)

My experiment has taken a turn for the worse, but I will persevere.

The attached photo of the oldest leaves of the Echinodorus uruguayensis.

Your opinion on what is causing it is appreciated, this has happened in the last 3 days.

I'm thinking Mg???


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## TimboJones (Feb 29, 2008)

*Week 3*

*Comments.*

Things are starting to settle down.
Added 3 Otos & 3 SAEs
Made up PPS Mg Solution and started dosing 2 drops a day.
Very happy with new growth on Echinodorus uruguayensis
To be expected diatom algae bloom was destroyed by Otos in 12 hours, what a great little fish!
Planted Cryptocoryne Wendtii Green.
Looking for some Bacopa, Corkscrew Val and Mayaca for background this coming week.
Have purchased chelated trace elements and KNO3 to move to PPS dosing to get better control over PO4.
Overall very happy with progress over past week and very quick recovery of Echinodorus uruguayensis.


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## helgymatt (Sep 12, 2007)

I don't think you experienced a "turn for the worse". IMO that is emersed growth dying off. You have very nice new growth on your plants now...right?


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## TimboJones (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks for your input helgymatt, your suggestion makes a lot of sense. I did plant the 2 uruguayensis sp. a week apart and any plant can react differently.

I am amazed how quickly growth can change in these plants.

The new growth is very different to the older leaves grown emersed. translucent, longer and brighter.

Pretty keen to get more plants in there.

Regards
Tim.


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## Amazon_Replica (Nov 24, 2007)

my quick 2 cents, the root tabs, if they are also Seachem, are not water soluable, so they shouldn't release much if any nitrate into the water column.

Looks good so far!


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## TimboJones (Feb 29, 2008)

Amazon_Replica,
The Tabs don't seem to be causing a problem at this stage. I'm having trouble keeping my NO3 above 5mg/l while PO4 is<.5mg/l using my present dosing. Hence my shift towards PPS. 
Funny thing about that. I bought 200g of KNO3 on Ebay from London because it was impossible to get locally unless I took a 25kg bag. Wonder how it will go getting through customs?

*Week 4*

*Comments.*

Pretty happy with the tank this week.

Trimmed some emersed growth from Echinodorus barthii and Echinodorus uruguayensis
new growth is starting to take over.

Cryptocoryne Wendtii Green going well.

All new fish added last week have seemed to have settled in and are going well.

Added Bacopa caroliniana, Cabomba and Rotala sp. 'Green' this week. All good so far.

Noticed a little GSA on Anubias yesterday freaked out as no other algae visible, glass is still spotless. Where's the Excel?

Hoping to add Mayaca fluviatilis (background), Sagittaria subulata and Eleocharis parvula (foreground) in the coming week.

*Question.*

How would you have planted the Rotala sp. 'Green'? In one bunch (like i did) or spread out with a bit of space between each piece?

*Australian Plant Website with some uncommon plants.*

http://www.aquagreen.com.au/index.html


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Stem plants should be planted either as individual stems or with no more than 3 in a bunch. I am finding the easiest way to plant them is with tweezers, one stem at a time. Just grip the stem so it is parallel to the tweezer arms, and with the tip of the stem even with the tips of the tweezers. Then shove it down to the bottom of the substrate, at least 2 inches deep. Slowly open the tweezers while wiggling them a little, and the substrate closes in to grip the stem. It is easy once you get the feel for it.


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## TimboJones (Feb 29, 2008)

Sorry for not updating this week. I accidentally used a 20 litre Seachem Reef Salt bucket coated in salt to do a water change. Somehow fish are ok but half the plants disintegrated. Will post again when I get over it.

Also. I am updating camera to Canon 450D. this is totally irrelevant but I'm pretty excited about it!


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## Amazon_Replica (Nov 24, 2007)

thats not irrelevant lol, i upgraded my camera and felt like i had a whole new tank, really made sharing that much better.


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## TimboJones (Feb 29, 2008)




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## TimboJones (Feb 29, 2008)

My apologies for the delay in posting.

A brief update.

*Week 9???*

Please note my methods not at all scientific. More playing around with what I have available to me. In the end I'll learn something and hopefully you might have a laugh.

*Picture This.*

I couldn't find KNO3 anywhere in *Australia* unless I wanted a 25kg bag of the stuff. So late one night I buy 200g on ebay from *England* (the other side of the planet!!) for $3.00 plus postage. This ebay seller only sells KNO3. Look him up.

As I'm retiring for the evening I tell my wife about my purchase. Theres a silent pause and she replies "Someone in England is posting you 200g of white powder which will have to go through Customs when it gets here? Oh Boy!"

When the KNO3 finally arrived it was 180g and attached was a letter from the Australian Federal Police explaining the do's and dont's of buying chemicals from overseas.

I wonder if anyone else has got a police file for trying to make a PPS solution?

Before the Reef Salt mishap I changed the TE dosage I think that was a bad idea. With the benefit of hindsight I think I was overdosing this solution it was raising my GH (a lot).

I have since said goodbye to hydroponics fertilizers (that wouldn't be a surprise to a lot of you.) and are now dosing.

Flourish 1ml twice a week
Excel 1ml daily
PPS PF 1ml daily
and in the last 2 weeks Flourish Iron 1ml twice a week.There was a noticeable increase in growth after starting with the Iron.

Approx 16 litre WC weekly RO/DI water adding 15ml of a saturated solution of 3:1 Ca:Mg
and 5ml of a saturated bicarb soda solution to get the GH & KH to around 4 & 6.
(Not scientific just using what I have on hand!)

*Comments*

The 2 Echinodorus uruguayensis were traded for crypts but not before growing across the top of the tank, about 40 cm in length beautiful translucent leaves unlike the original emersed growth and the root system was impressive as well.

The Echinodorus barthi fell apart after the Reef Salt mishap and was removed.

I replaced the Hagen Aquaglow tube because tank looked a bit pink. I put in a Arcadia Freshwater tube 6700k. Very happy with the brighter greens.

I'm been very lucky with algae so far I think the RO/DI has something to do with it. The Anubias had some GSA which I cleaned in a bleach bath. It looks very healthy shoots new leaves but no new flowers since changing to new fert regime.

The stem plants are going well with good colour on the 2 Ludwiga Sp.

This photo was taken today after weekly WC, glass clean and trimming of Rotala Green (left), Rotala sp. 'Nanjenshan' (Centre rear), Ludwigia palustris (Front right),

Added some tetras for colour. All fish healthy.

Finally, When I started this tank I told myself I wouldn't need CO2. I even told my wife I wouldn't need CO2. But now??? Has anyone else had this problem? I was at the LFS the other day, one of the staff came up to me and asked if I needed help. I politely replied while staring at the CO2 bottle with regulator and solenoid *"I know how this works, I've got the money in my pocket but I'm not buying it unless you can tell me how to get it home and setup without my wife noticing."*


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## joycould (Mar 13, 2007)

Send her to a day spa and while she is gone set it up. If she doesn't snoop in your aquarium stuff she might not notice for awhile. Your tanks looks wonderful.


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## TimboJones (Feb 29, 2008)

Just found instructions on to how to post photos.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Hi
If you have a lawn or a garden, then get the 25 kg KNO3 bag. How much is it, $25? Cheaper then any grass fertilizer and much more efficient. You can use it outside and inside. 

When changing your water you don't need to worry about soda, KH and Mg. Just Ca. Also because you are doing water changes you can dose PPS-Pro, it is easier. Save your money on a CO2 controller. A CO2 tank, pressure regulator, needle valve and a bubble counter is all you need.


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## TimboJones (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks Edward, I'm taking your advice. Simpler=Better.

Kh/Gh are less important from now on.


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