# New to El Natural, please review my strategy!



## angc84 (Aug 27, 2009)

Hi everyone!

After reading Ms. Walstad's Ecology of the Planted Tanks, as well as obsessively researching on this topic, I've decided to set up a 10g office tank using this method. My plan is as follows:

*Substrate*: Miracle Grow Organic Choice Potting Soil. I will air the substrate over night to reduce possible ammonia leach. Crushed coral will be sprinkled on the potting soil layer to buffer the water. Potting soil will be topped with 1.5'' of medium-small grain gravels.

*Lighting*: 30watt 6400k CFL

*Hardscape*: A few pieces of driftwoods

*Fauna*: 5 Rosy Barbs, 3 Otos.

*Plants*: Java moss, Java fern, Rotala Indica, Ludwigia Rippen, unknown Bocapa, Dwarf sag for carpet. Duckweed for floating plants.

*Heater*: This tank will not have a heater. My office temperature stays at a constant 74F

*Circulation/filtration*: I have a spare AC 30 HOB as well as a Internal UV light w/ power head. I cannot decide which to go with...or none at all. What do you think?

My water is very hard, with a out of the tap pH at 8.2. I have access to ddH2O. Should I mix my tap water with some ddH2O? I believe that Ms. Walstad mentioned that plants (some?) grows well in hard water.

Please let me know what you think! I really appreciate your help!!


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## Dustymac (Apr 26, 2008)

Sounds good to me although you have a lot more light per gallon than I have on any of my tanks. If nothing else, everything, good or bad, will happen faster! 

I think I would opt for the HOB at first and take advantage of some real filtration for the first few weeks. Then I would sink the UV filter in there only if there were some mysterious fish maladies or you just can't get the water clarity you expect.

Yes, hard water is better for those plants which prefer to take up minerals like Calcium and Magnesium from the water and not the substrate. But I would test the water with a kit that measures general hardness since ph and hardness are not the same. For instance, we have a ph of 7.4 from the tap but the water has almost no hardness whatsoever.

Good luck and post lots of pictures!
Jim


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## angc84 (Aug 27, 2009)

Thank you for your kind help! 

I was thinking that I'd wait for a week or so to add the fish. I want to make sure that no ammonia will leached into the water. I suppose I can run a small RedSea HOB (to reduce agitation?) with a matured mechanical sponge (to introduce bacteria for the emergency times). Would that be a better strategy?

As for the light, I've heard that the WPG rule breaks for smaller tank. I think I will try it with a 10-hour day. If algae goes out of control, I will start reducing the wattage! =) 

Even after reading all the posts with such successful El Natural tanks, it still scares me a little to use potting soil in my tank. Call me paranoid! Will airing the soil over-night be sufficient? 

Thank you very much for the fast response!

EDIT: I've never got my hand on one of those GH/KH test kits...maybe it's time to invest in one. ><. Also, the UV sterlizer was only something I had from a green water outburst...I thought I could use it simply for water flow. However, I also read one of Ms. Walstad's post on how small tanks will not need power head for circulation. Not to mention I am going to have some Rosy Barbs in there, and they are psychotic!


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## Dustymac (Apr 26, 2008)

angc84 said:


> Thank you for your kind help!
> 
> I was thinking that I'd wait for a week or so to add the fish. I want to make sure that no ammonia will leached into the water. I suppose I can run a small RedSea HOB (to reduce agitation?) with a matured mechanical sponge (to introduce bacteria for the emergency times). Would that be a better strategy?


I'm sure everyone will have their own opinions on this, but I usually wait a week to add fish only because the cheap topsoil I've used usually takes that long to settle down in terms of water clarity. I've never worried about ammonia since the plants will gobble it up and no auxiliary filtration is actually necessary.



> As for the light, I've heard that the WPG rule breaks for smaller tank. I think I will try it with a 10-hour day. If algae goes out of control, I will start reducing the wattage! =)


I believe light has less to do with algae than the level of certain nutrients floating in the water. When those nutrients are exhausted, the algae goes away. Otherwise, my tanks all have about 1.5 w/g and there is always plenty of pruning to do. 



> Even after reading all the posts with such successful El Natural tanks, it still scares me a little to use potting soil in my tank. Call me paranoid! Will airing the soil over-night be sufficient?


I have no idea about soil preparation. For each of my tanks, I just opened the bag, sifted out the big chunks of wood and dumped it in. I can't imagine the results being any better than they are.



> However, I also read one of Ms. Walstad's post on how small tanks will not need power head for circulation.


I've had it both ways for small tanks and they both work fine. Right now I think you have a pretty good grasp of the basics. Just set up your tank, relax and watch nature take over all the chores. I'm confident that you'll soon understand what most of us already know: NPTs are the only way to go!


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## Sumthin Fishy (Aug 22, 2009)

Hi...I'm new to NPT's also. I set up my first 10g about 6 weeks ago using MG Organic Choice and I did have some trouble with ammonia. It never got above 1.0, but the tank basically went through a cycling process that took 3 weeks. I had lots of plants and the soil was aired out for quite a while. I did make one dumb mistake in that my plants came before my water conditioner arrived, so I set up the tank with water containing chloramine and added the conditioner a few days later. I”m sure I'd have had better results if I hadn't killed all the bacteria in my soil.

Even so, the tank is doing great now. Never had any algae problems, never did any water changes (no fish were added until after the tank cycled) and the water parameters are very stable. I have 15w fluorescent and some indirect window light. The plants are growing like crazy. I think that when it comes to WPG, the rule break is that you can use lower WPG in a small tank because the tank isn't as tall and more light can penetrate to the substrate. Also, this is kind of subjective, but when I tried a 28w CFL lamp over my tank I found it to be annoyingly bright.

As for circulation, I didn't use anything for the first week and the water became very stagnant and began to smell. I bought a Tom's mini internal filter that is designed for 3 gallon tanks and added that after removing the filter element. Worked great and is quiet and easily hidden behind the plants. You could also use a small powerhead, but I like the ability to add a sponge and carbon element if needed. Plus, the little filter was cheap and available locally. From what I remember, Ms.Walstad recommends using some circulation for the first couple of months while the soil settles. Around weeks 4-5 my substrate bubbled a lot, so don't be alarmed when that starts happening.

Also, in case you weren't aware, Rosy Barbs grow to 5-6” so you'll need to move them out of a 10g pretty quickly. 

Good luck with your tank!


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## angc84 (Aug 27, 2009)

Dustymac said:


> I'm sure everyone will have their own opinions on this, but I usually wait a week to add fish only because the cheap topsoil I've used usually takes that long to settle down in terms of water clarity. I've never worried about ammonia since the plants will gobble it up and no auxiliary filtration is actually necessary.


Hehe, yes, that's why I'd like to wait for a week and see if there will be any detectable level of ammonia/nitrite. I want to make sure that ammonia do not stay in the water column, either that it doesn't leech from the soil or that plants will take them up speedily enough. =)



Dustymac said:


> I believe light has less to do with algae than the level of certain nutrients floating in the water. When those nutrients are exhausted, the algae goes away. Otherwise, my tanks all have about 1.5 w/g and there is always plenty of pruning to do.


That's good to know! But I feel that high light almost always equal to GSA for me. All the other algae types die out but GSA always continue to show up. We'll see if it's the case for a NPT!



Dustymac said:


> I have no idea about soil preparation. For each of my tanks, I just opened the bag, sifted out the big chunks of wood and dumped it in. I can't imagine the results being any better than they are.


Hehe. I might just do that! Sounds easy enough. =)



Dustymac said:


> I've had it both ways for small tanks and they both work fine. Right now I think you have a pretty good grasp of the basics. Just set up your tank, relax and watch nature take over all the chores. I'm confident that you'll soon understand what most of us already know: NPTs are the only way to go!


And thank you again for your input! It couldn't be more helpful!


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## angc84 (Aug 27, 2009)

First of all, thank you for sharing your valuable experience with me!



Sumthin Fishy said:


> Hi...I'm new to NPT's also. I set up my first 10g about 6 weeks ago using MG Organic Choice and I did have some trouble with ammonia. It never got above 1.0, but the tank basically went through a cycling process that took 3 weeks. I had lots of plants and the soil was aired out for quite a while. I did make one dumb mistake in that my plants came before my water conditioner arrived, so I set up the tank with water containing chloramine and added the conditioner a few days later. I"m sure I'd have had better results if I hadn't killed all the bacteria in my soil.


I will make sure I have my Prime in hand before I fill the tank. =) However, I was wondering how the bacteria should stay alive during the airing process...is it a different sort of nitrifying bacteria?



Sumthin Fishy said:


> Even so, the tank is doing great now. Never had any algae problems, never did any water changes (no fish were added until after the tank cycled) and the water parameters are very stable. I have 15w fluorescent and some indirect window light. The plants are growing like crazy. I think that when it comes to WPG, the rule break is that you can use lower WPG in a small tank because the tank isn't as tall and more light can penetrate to the substrate. Also, this is kind of subjective, but when I tried a 28w CFL lamp over my tank I found it to be annoyingly bright.


No algae problem?! No algae problem?!!! That's too good to be true! I hope my tank turns out as well! My tank will be sitting in an office that has absolutely no sunlight. I will try with my 30w CFL and see how it goes. I sort of like the brightness...my high-tech 10g has 46w of 6500k!



Sumthin Fishy said:


> As for circulation, I didn't use anything for the first week and the water became very stagnant and began to smell. I bought a Tom's mini internal filter that is designed for 3 gallon tanks and added that after removing the filter element. Worked great and is quiet and easily hidden behind the plants. You could also use a small powerhead, but I like the ability to add a sponge and carbon element if needed. Plus, the little filter was cheap and available locally. From what I remember, Ms.Walstad recommends using some circulation for the first couple of months while the soil settles. Around weeks 4-5 my substrate bubbled a lot, so don't be alarmed when that starts happening.


Thank you. This is what really puzzles me. I feel that the UV light with power head will create the least surface turbulence, but I cannot use any media for that. (I really can't use Purigen for a NPT? =(() I will go ahead and read her book again, more thoroughly. =)



Sumthin Fishy said:


> Also, in case you weren't aware, Rosy Barbs grow to 5-6" so you'll need to move them out of a 10g pretty quickly.


Thank you. I am fully aware of that. I am still debating if I should move the Rosy Barbs or my 6 female Bettas. =) After all, my boss might just allow me to set up a 20L in my office....*day-dreaming*


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## brenmuk (Oct 7, 2008)

angc84 said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> After reading Ms. Walstad's Ecology of the Planted Tanks, as well as obsessively researching on this topic, I've decided to set up a 10g office tank using this method. My plan is as follows:
> 
> *Substrate*: Miracle Grow Organic Choice Potting Soil. I will air the substrate over night to reduce possible ammonia leach. Crushed coral will be sprinkled on the potting soil layer to buffer the water. Potting soil will be topped with 1.5'' of medium-small grain gravels.





angc84 said:


> My water is very hard, with a out of the tap pH at 8.2. I have access to ddH2O. Should I mix my tap water with some ddH2O? I believe that Ms. Walstad mentioned that plants (some?) grows well in hard water.
> 
> Please let me know what you think! I really appreciate your help!!


If your water is already hard and has a high pH then I wouldn't bother with the crushed coral shell -its more of a requirement for people with soft water - sounds like your water has all the buffering that you need and more. Ideally you want a tank pH between 6.5 and 7.5. In Ecology of the Planted Tank there is a table/chart indicating that algae prefer higher pH to plants. The book also explains that soils tend towards a neutral pH over time when submerged so I wouldn't worry about ddH2O either.

When I prepared my soil I didn't add any crushed coral sand etc although the John Innes No1 soil that I used already had some in to maintain a neutral pH.


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## Sumthin Fishy (Aug 22, 2009)

angc84 said:


> I will make sure I have my Prime in hand before I fill the tank. =) However, I was wondering how the bacteria should stay alive during the airing process...is it a different sort of nitrifying bacteria?


I believe that as long as the soil isn't dried out, some bacteria will survive. In my case the airing out process consisted of letting an opened bag of potting soil sit under my deck for a month or two. 

I had also assumed that the bacteria had some type of survival mechanism, but a quick search has made me uncertain about this. Most aquarium related threads seem to regard the bacteria as quite perishable if not kept wet. On the other hand, it seems to be accepted that the bacteria find their way to your tank through the air. That seems contradictory to me. I do know that some bacteria can go into a dormant state and survive for a very long time, so I'd be surprised if these bacteria were really that delicate. Maybe someone else can clarify this.

Here's a link to a thread where Ms. Walstad discusses the need for circulation in a new tank. Basically, as the organic matter breaks down it can deplete the water of oxygen. Not so good for the fish.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/48597-filters-10-gal-tank.html

I have a male Betta and four Harlequin Rasboras in my 10g, along with snails and a couple of Ghost Shrimp. I'm tempted to add a couple of more Harlies, but maybe it's best to leave well enough alone.


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## angc84 (Aug 27, 2009)

Sumthin Fishy said:


> I believe that as long as the soil isn't dried out, some bacteria will survive. In my case the airing out process consisted of letting an opened bag of potting soil sit under my deck for a month or two.
> 
> I had also assumed that the bacteria had some type of survival mechanism, but a quick search has made me uncertain about this. Most aquarium related threads seem to regard the bacteria as quite perishable if not kept wet. On the other hand, it seems to be accepted that the bacteria find their way to your tank through the air. That seems contradictory to me. I do know that some bacteria can go into a dormant state and survive for a very long time, so I'd be surprised if these bacteria were really that delicate. Maybe someone else can clarify this.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I was actually looking into bacteria a while ago when I was doing fishless cycling. I couldn't find much credible documentation of it. I wonder why?

1 month of airing!! I don't think I have that sort of patience! And you still got ammonia in your tank?

Thank you so much for the link! It makes sense...I might just use the UV lamp powerhead for circulation for the first month. =) I feel that it's the best chance I won't lose my precious CO2.

I have another 10g in my office with a male Betta and 10 Harlequin Rasboras. They are such nice schoolers! I have some pond snails as well. I can't imagine having less than 10 Rasboras in there...but then I am always guilty of over-stocking. >< The Betta and the Rasboras don't seem to have conflicts. They occupy very different areas. =)

Again, thanks!


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## angc84 (Aug 27, 2009)

brenmuk said:


> If your water is already hard and has a high pH then I wouldn't bother with the crushed coral shell -its more of a requirement for people with soft water - sounds like your water has all the buffering that you need and more. Ideally you want a tank pH between 6.5 and 7.5. In Ecology of the Planted Tank there is a table/chart indicating that algae prefer higher pH to plants. The book also explains that soils tend towards a neutral pH over time when submerged so I wouldn't worry about ddH2O either.
> 
> When I prepared my soil I didn't add any crushed coral sand etc although the John Innes No1 soil that I used already had some in to maintain a neutral pH.


Thank you! I wanted to use crushed coral because I feel that it might serve as a long term buffering agent. I suppose it's not necessary!

I should definitely read the book over again. I missed quite a few important points!

Finally, it'd be heaven if the soil can buffer my water at 7.0...my water has such high pH it's not the best for my softwater fish. =/

Thank you for your input!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

angc84 said:


> However, I was wondering how the bacteria should stay alive during the airing process...is it a different sort of nitrifying bacteria?


The nitrifying bacteria are probably still alive. They live in the water films that coat soil particles. Even desert soils have a little water in them, and the bacteria live in this water. It would take a long time to air out soil until it was completely "bone dry" and all bacteria died.

Terrestrial soils are loaded with nitrifying bacteria. The nitrifying bacteria of soils and aquariums have been found to belong to the same genera (_Nitrosomonas_ and _Nitrospira_). Therefore, soils should work just fine to seed aquariums with nitrifying bacteria.

One nice aquaculture study* showed that filters seeded with soil worked just as well as filters seeded with old pond biofilter material in removing ammonia from fish tanks.

*Reference: Gross A, Nemirovsky A, Zilberg D, Khaimov A, Brenner A, Snir E, Ronenn Z and Nejidat A. 2003. Soil nitrifying enrichments as biofilter starters in intensive recirculating saline water aquacultures. Aquaculture 223: 51-62.


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## angc84 (Aug 27, 2009)

dwalstad said:


> The nitrifying bacteria are probably still alive. They live in the water films that coat soil particles. Even desert soils have a little water in them, and the bacteria live in this water. It would take a long time to air out soil until it was completely "bone dry" and all bacteria died.
> 
> Terrestrial soils are loaded with nitrifying bacteria. The nitrifying bacteria of soils and aquariums have been found to belong to the same genera (_Nitrosomonas_ and _Nitrospira_). Therefore, soils should work just fine to seed aquariums with nitrifying bacteria.
> 
> ...


Thank you Ms. Walstad for taking your time to respond to me.

It's a great information on the presence of nitrifying bacteria in non-fertile soil! I always thought they were very fragile. I will definitely look up the paper on PubMed. =)

Again, thank you!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

You are very welcome!


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