# Rummy nose help!



## ted spade (Dec 14, 2004)

This is the second time this happened..first I bring home the bag w/fish home. In moderate darkness I acclimated them for 2 hours then put them in the tank. They seem fine at first however their fins turn white fall of and they die this process occurs in about 5 days. PH (5.0) ammonia etc are all good but they still die how can I stop this?

Thanks
Ted


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Hello Ted, sorry to hear about your fish  Your ph seems a bit on the low side -- what is your kh, do you know? What is your process of acclimation?


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## ted spade (Dec 14, 2004)

I wanted to make the pH low b/c in the wild I heard the pH is 4.5. The KH is very high (NYC h2o is as hard as a rock!) I float the bag for 45 min. then add 1/4 cup h20 every 7 mins for 2 hours.


Thanks
Ted


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

If the kh is high, how are you lowering the ph? Tetras will do fine at higher phs -- it's not necessary to lower it that low.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Sorry about your losses.

Your pH doesn't need to be (and shouldn't be) anywhere near that low; it's very unforgiving. They may recommend it in some books, but your average breeder or store will almost always have a pH of over 7, so your fish are almost certainly suffering pH shock.
It's best not to try to alter it from your tap, aside from using your C02.


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## ted spade (Dec 14, 2004)

Will raise the pH. I think (please tell me if I'm wrong) that KH just buffers pH not raises/lowers it. However if you have a low pH the buffering capacity will ware off and the KH will drop, right?

Thanks
Ted


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## ted spade (Dec 14, 2004)

In this pic. you can see the white on the fin. In time, the fin will rot and the fish will die.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

I keep Rummy-nose tetras in a PH of 6.5 - 7.0, I have for years.

Rummy-nose are a sensitive fish and stress very easily. The main thing is to purchase fish that have been in the store at least a week. Make sure they have good coloration in the head and tail area. If the fish are pale or the color looks washed outed, don't buy them. 

Accumulating them for 2 hours 45 minutes is a little long in my book, I would cut back to 1 1/2 hours.


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

kh buffers ph yes, but if you have a high KH, it is hard to have a low ph unless you are pumping a LOT of co2 into the tank -- is that how you are lowering ph? The method you are using may have a lot to do with the deaths. I would avoid any of the ph up/ph down type chemicals. What is the ph out of your tap? What is the Kh? Your best bet will be to leave it just as it comes out of the tap and it will be more stable. However, my thought was that NY had soft water....


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## chiahead (Dec 18, 2004)

I have gone through dozens of rummy nose tetras, and I tend to kill alot of them. My thoughts are that the stress of transfering them however slight it is causes various infections including ich, fin rot, and internal parasites. I have found all those things in the ones I have killed. I have even quarentined for 10 days and acclimated them over 4 hours in a drip bucket. I dont understand it either. Maybe other issues besides the ph change causes them to be weaker in the immune system. Maybe a gh swing can cause it. All I know is from about 40+ rummynose's I have about 14 that are alive and healthy.


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## paul236313 (Jul 23, 2004)

wanted to make the pH low b/c in the wild I heard the pH is 4.5. The KH is very high (NYC h2o is as hard as a rock!) I float the bag for 45 min. then add 1/4 cup h20 every 7 mins for 2 hours


Thats the total opposite NYC water is very soft.Where in NYC are you.I have been keeping rummynose for a yr now never had a casualty.And as far as any buffer you should have to use any type of buffer with NYC water unless you injecting pressurised C02.NYC ph is about 7.0 but does have a very low kh causing it to be very soft.I use seachem equilibrium to stabilize my ph so it don't swing from 7.0 t o 6.2.You should not use any buffer to lower ph for rummynose the standard tap is fine


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## discus (Jul 20, 2004)

Hi Ted 
I have a few rummy nose, my water is at a pH of 6.1. When i get mine i acclimate them for half hour using the drip method which i do with cardinals also and have yet to lose a batch. When i bring them home i dump them in a small bucket the size of a tub of ice cream (or larger) along with the LFS water then i run a regular airline tube from my tank into the bucket with a knot in it to regulate the number of drops entering the bucket. At the end of the half hour i have about 3 times the amount of water that i originally started with (ie the amount that was in the bag from the LFS). I have never lost a rummy nose this way nor any cardinals. Also, although your pH is probably fine for tetras, a change of greater than 0.5 per half hour is usually detrimental to tetras I have noticed that they really dont like drastic changes in pH perhaps the change from the pH at the LFS to yours may be causing some issues.

Good luck
Discus


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## ted spade (Dec 14, 2004)

Thanks for the replies.
trenac- I acclimated them so Long b/c I got other Rummy nose that would die in a couple of hours and only spent 45 mins. acclimating on them. 
discus-My pH is 6.0 now the lfs stores was 6.6.
paul236313- The pH out of the tap is 7.6. My building has an RO/UV in the
basement but its hard to walk up 5 stories w/all that h2o! I have A LOT of driftwood and use no buffers.
chiahead-I feel your pain!
Piscesgirl-No co2 but lots of driftwood. Don't use pH up or down. Sorry, I don't have a KH test kit but I can tell you the pH has stayed very stable throughout the 5 years of the tanks time running.
It getting better, no more killed only have 5 left...

Thanks,
Ted


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Good to hear that no more have died. I'm still confused how you are changing the water ph. Are you using the RO/DI water to do it? Or, just driftwood? 6.0 is fine, you can even go up some if you wish. 

Pretty cool you have RO/DI water in your building - do you have to pay extra for it? No elevator?


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## ted spade (Dec 14, 2004)

The tank pH was 5.5 so I added tap h2o which was 7.6 and made 6.0. Don't have to pay extra, no elevator, just give it to the fish for 1X per month treat.

Ted


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Ah ok. That was a good way to do it. I would avoid the 1x a treat, but instead try to keep the water consistent all the time, i.e. you can use a set percentage tap/RO water to keep it where you want it. Keep us updated!


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## ted spade (Dec 14, 2004)

Red getting brighter, will post a pic soon.


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Oh good - yes, please post a picture when you can!


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## ted spade (Dec 14, 2004)

Here are the pics.


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## ted spade (Dec 14, 2004)

Another pic. they seem well.


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

My 2 cents... i find them sensitive, but have never had them die on me. I have a bunch that is 6-7 years old- can't believe they are still around. Happy little buggers...pH 6.8


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## ted spade (Dec 14, 2004)

No more have died! I noticed small black spots (like pepper) on one, is this bad? How can I cure this? Red is still getting stronger.

Ted


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## hOAGART (Aug 18, 2004)

I bought a dozen last week and within 3 days they were all dead but 1.
I just think theyre very sensitive .. like my G/F.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

I'm glad they've stabilized for you Ted. You should be beyond the touchy part for them now.
I wouldn't worry about the pepper like spots right now. It could be nothing, and they may not be quite strong enough to handle any types of meds yet. You can keep an eye on it to be sure it doesn't get worse, but I really doubt it will.


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## ted spade (Dec 14, 2004)

The spots haven't gotten worse and they're stabilized now. All have really bright noses. Thanks for the help everybody!

Ted


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## ted spade (Dec 14, 2004)

I spoke too soon. The problem now is interesting. They will swim and then suddenly loose control, flip over a couple of times and then right themselves again. Is this normal behaviour for them?


Ted


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

ted spade said:


> I spoke too soon. The problem now is interesting. They will swim and then suddenly loose control, flip over a couple of times and then right themselves again. Is this normal behaviour for them?Ted


No, it isn't. I'm not sure what might be causing it, but stepping up your water changes (using just dechlorintated tap water) can't hurt.
If it happens to be something like swimbladder disease, it won't be easy to correct. :neutral:


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## ted spade (Dec 14, 2004)

Great. Now they have the ich, getting aquarium salt soon and raising temp.

Ted


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