# yellow leaves + brown dots



## finfollower (May 27, 2004)

hey guys,
I'm aware that there is also another thread with brown dots, but I think my case is slightly different. I've noticed that a bunch of dark brown spots on my plants and two leaves on my anubias have turned almost completely yellow. Also, when I top off my rotalas, the bottoms that are left seem to die on me, the leaves turn brown and wither away. 
Here are the tank specs:
10 gallon
30W CF screw ins
5mL of flourish excel daily
1mL Flourish, 1/8 tsp of KNO3 from Grant's stump remover, and .7mL Fleet Enema every other day
and a water change on saturday

I only have 8 fish in the tank right now. Can anyone explain what's going on with the plants please?

Here are some pics (kinda blurry sorry)

















Thanks


----------



## yildirim (Nov 25, 2004)

Hi,

Pictures do not tell anything good but I can tell you that any brown dots or yellowing in the plants are usualy symptoms of macro defficiencies, mainly N and K.
But when it comes to yellow anubias it is definitely a Fe defficiency which also could be related to Mg defficiency.
For most of the other plants you can judge the cause of yellowing regarding to the place it is observed. İf the yellowing is in new growth and tips it is usualy Fe, and if it is in older leaves and more spread in the plant than it is N defficiency.
Any brown dots, patches, transparency on the leaves may be cured by increased potassium. Even tough you did not mention which plant you are having this brown dots, it could be very normal if you are having these on microsorum leaves as they tend to make it under straight and good light.
Dying bottoms could probably be caused from shadowing and not getting enough light. In fact yellow and brown coloring may also be caused by lighting defficiencies but only in extreme cases and with your lighting I do not consider that as an option except your bottom parts of rotalas.
I hope this helps. More specific info and pictures would be much better.


----------



## finfollower (May 27, 2004)

Thanks for the help yildirim. I'll try to get better picutres next time, my camera's autofocus doesn't work too well when I try to closeup on plants. Come to think of it, the yellow anubias leaf is under a lot of shade so that could be it. I'll keep updating and posting pictures.


----------



## finfollower (May 27, 2004)

got better pictures this time, also I've started to notice some brown algae growth in the tank and will be putting the otos in my QT into the 10 gal soon.
here are the pics
I cut the yellow leaf off the anubias and this is it:









the dots I was talking about (I've scraped off most of the brown algae on the leaves but the dots are a deficiency I think):


















brown algae on the glass:


----------



## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

> 5mL of flourish excel daily


You realize how much you're od'ing Excel by adding this much daily?:!: The recommended dosage here is 5ml per 10 gal following the water change, then 1ml per 10gal daily thereafter.


----------



## finfollower (May 27, 2004)

uhh oops, I definitely didn't read carefully. thanks for pointin it out bert. what can i do about the algae in the tank? I've got really small thread algae in addition to the brown algae that has started to grow in the tank.


----------



## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Is this an established tank or fairly new? It could be the tank hasn't matured yet and stabilized. How long is your photoperiod?


----------



## finfollower (May 27, 2004)

The tank's about 2 months old now. The total photoperiod is usually about 10 hours a day. I shut the lights off for 3 hours in between now because of the hot weather here.


----------



## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

A two month old tank is still stabilizing. Once your ferts are balanced out, the brown algae (diatoms) should go away. I, personally, am not a fan of turning off lights midday. IMO, it just 'confuses' the plants once they've started growing. 

From the description of your dosing, it doesn't sound like you should be deficient. IMO, if anything, you're adding more than you should by adding that much macros every other day. You should not add the Flourish at the same time as you're adding your macros, specifically the PO4. If you add them both the same day, add one in the AM, the other in the PM.

You have one 30W screw in bulb for you light source, is that correct? And your carbon is Excel. If it were me, I'd dose this way: 10 - 15ppm of NO3 and 2-3ppm of PO4 at water change. Then mid-week add another 5-10ppm NO3 and 1-2ppm PO4. In between add Flourish (1ml/day) and some Flourish iron (or Greg Watson's iron chelate) (.5 -1ml/day). 

One of the main keys in keeping an algae free tank is stability. Decide on your dosing scheme, and if it's working well, religiously maintain it. 

Just my 2 cents worth.


----------



## finfollower (May 27, 2004)

Thanks Bert. My lighting is actually 2 15W screw ins and I should be getting my Hagen CO2 in the mail today and that's what I'll be using as a source of CO2. I'm just curious, why shouldn't I add the macros and Flourish on the same day?


----------



## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

> why shouldn't I add the macros and Flourish on the same day?


 The iron in the Flourish can react with the PO4's. You can add them on the same day, just do one in the AM, the other in the PM.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

finfollower said:


> hey guys,
> I'm aware that there is also another thread with brown dots, but I think my case is slightly different. I've noticed that a bunch of dark brown spots on my plants and two leaves on my anubias have turned almost completely yellow. Also, when I top off my rotalas, the bottoms that are left seem to die on me, the leaves turn brown and wither away.
> Here are the tank specs:
> 10 gallon
> ...


It doesn't sound like you're adding any calcium (if you're working with softwater, calcium deficiency could be a real problem). Water deficient in calcium has been shown to actually kill aquatic plants (my book, page 114).

The brown spots may be from excessive iron via the fertilizer overdosing. Excessive iron is not only toxic to plants, but will stimulate algae. I would only add iron when you see clear symptoms of iron deficiency-- yellowing of new leaves.


----------



## finfollower (May 27, 2004)

I just checked my GH and KH today with my new kits. Here are the results
KH:1
GH:5
pH: 6.4
Also, I just got the nutrafin plant gro co2 kit in the mail today and according to the CO2 chart, my CO2 levels would be too high for my tank. How would I be able to raise my KH and pH (if necessary) in order to get safe CO2 levels? 
dwalstad, what products can I use to supplement my tank with calcium btw?


----------



## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

> How would I be able to raise my KH


Baking soda will raise kh. Do a search for recommended amounts.


----------



## Lawrence Lee (Jul 17, 2004)

Seachem Equilibrium will add calcium, magnesium, iron and potassium. With this you need only to dose KNO3 and PO4 for your macros.

I'd not be worried of your CO2 levels since you have not injected CO2 yet. 

Moreover, readings can be biased or inaccurate because of phosphates etc. 

FYI, my tank has 4dKH and 5.9pH. That's over 100ppm of CO2 if my readings are correct, but it isn't. I dose high amounts of phosphates which throw the reading off. 

So as long as the plants are bubbling like a soda and the fishes and shrimps are not sluggish (or at the surface before lights on), you do not have excess levels of CO2.


----------



## finfollower (May 27, 2004)

Thanks for everyone's inputs. I just started my CO2 today and hopefully everything will work out fine. One thing though, as I finished up my weekly water change today, I added 1/2 tsp. of baking soda and it set my KH at 4 and my pH was stable at about 7.0-7.2 for a couple hours. About 11 hours later (now), my pH has dropped to about 6.8 and my KH is now at 2.5-3ish. How can I keep my KH and pH stable as I just want to be safe about the CO2 and don't want anything going wrong? The fish seem to be doing fine, but I just want to stay on the safe side.


----------



## Lawrence Lee (Jul 17, 2004)

You should keep your CO2 level stable rather than attempting to control both KH and pH.

For a given KH level, pH will fall as you increase the dissolved CO2 level in your water (otherwise, you're not injecting enough, your diffusion method is inefficient or the water surface is too disturbed and is gassing off your CO2).

Try to achieve a stable CO2 level throughout the light period. Let's say you have 4dKH, try to achieve pH 6.6 within the first hour of the light coming on. Test the pH often that day to ensure it stays at pH 6.6, not more, not less throughout the entire period the light is on. Turn off the CO2 at night. If you are able to achieve this, you're on your way to success.

It doesn't matter if the pH reading comes up after lights out. The slow change of pH is not going to harm your livestock. FYI, mine changes almost 10 points from pH 5.9 just before lights out, to around pH 7 when the lights come back on. No problems with livestock including sensitive shrimps.

Remember to increase your CO2 injection amount by small increments daily, taking a week to arrive at the target level. The moment you see sluggish livestock or worse, when they're hanging around the surface, it's time to stop and revert to yesterday's setting.

Your observation that the KH level dropsl can result from 2 possibilities:

1) it takes time for your system to mix the newly changed water and so the concentration drops after it is mixed evenly around the tank for some time. In this case. you need to get more circulation going by creative use of rainbars and additional powerheads.

2) Your plants are using up the KH because they're starved of CO2. I used to have this in my 6-watts-per-gallon tank. The problem vanshed when I used bottled CO2.

Once you have changed water with the necessary ferts and baking soda, don't tweak any more parameters with the exception of increasing or reducing CO2 injection rate. Making too many changes is bad for your tank. Good luck with your plants.


----------



## finfollower (May 27, 2004)

I've been checking my KH and my pH daily ever since I've put on the CO2 and it seems that the pH and KH are dropping in proportion to good CO2 levels (according to the CO2 chart). Right now it's stable at 6.3 pH and 1.5 KH, so the CO2 is at 23ppm. My fish all seem to be doing fine also, so that's a good sign. I'm using a DIY CO2 btw so I can't control all the bubbles and can't really turn off the CO2 at night.


----------



## Lawrence Lee (Jul 17, 2004)

using one of those "electrical carbon block" CO2 systems may cause KH to drop.

To set up an "auto shut off" device for your DIY CO2, see my post http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/apc-polls/28076-co2-run-it-24-7-not-2.html


----------



## xcooperx (Jun 24, 2006)

what about if you using ladder as a diffuser, is there any chance that you can turn it off


----------



## Lawrence Lee (Jul 17, 2004)

xcooperx said:


> what about if you using ladder as a diffuser, is there any chance that you can turn it off


If you're using the ladder diffuser, you can only turn it off if you have a solenoid cutoff regulator timed with the lighting timer.


----------

