# 30G stand build



## deepstarsix (Oct 30, 2013)

Hello all,

I've been doing some research for making my first stand and I'm hoping I can get some feedback from experienced stand builders out there.

Attached is an image of the sketch for my stand. My priorities are pretty simple:
1) won't break / can handle load / sturdy
2) cheap / light as possible
3) easy to build

A lot of what I saw was criticized as being way over built. While I don't want to cheap out on an important piece of gear. I also don't want to waste wood and deal with something that is impossible to move out of my apartment. This stand is for a 30 gallon tank and like many others out there is made entirely of 2x4s. I've tried to incorporate what I've read so far in my design. I've added some questions right on the image where I can point to the area at issue.

Any feedback very much appreciated!

Cheers,
newbfishfreak


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## deepstarsix (Oct 30, 2013)

Any feedback on the design? Is one 2x4 for each leg OK? I see people doubling them up but that's gonna add 15lbs or so and seems overkill.

I'm also thinking the height is too tall and might bring the center of gravity dangerously high making it potentially tippy. Most of the 30G store made stands seem to max out around 30" tall. I'm thinking to drop the overall height to 30" or so to be on the safe side. Thoughts?


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## larams (May 7, 2011)

I think it's strong enough as far as holding wait from above goes but if you ever had an earthquake or something that makes it twist you might have problems. Maybe put plywood walls on the sides and that would really add strength. Or add some diagonal bracing on the sides like an a frame.

I live in California so I do mine a little overkill because I know there will be an earthquake eventually.


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## larams (May 7, 2011)

deepstarsix said:


> Any feedback on the design? Is one 2x4 for each leg OK? I see people doubling them up but that's gonna add 15lbs or so and seems overkill.
> 
> I'm also thinking the height is too tall and might bring the center of gravity dangerously high making it potentially tippy. Most of the 30G store made stands seem to max out around 30" tall. I'm thinking to drop the overall height to 30" or so to be on the safe side. Thoughts?


15lbs is more weight but way stronger. It's worth doubling the legs IMO.

I've got a store bought stand that is like 32" tall and it scares me that it would tip over some day. I usually build them at around 26" tall and that is pretty stable without being to short.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

You can just use 3/4" plywood, rabbet the joints, and screw and glue them. That's what I'm doing on my build and it's solid as a rock. Just make sure to incorporate some kind of header to support the front.


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## deepstarsix (Oct 30, 2013)

larams said:


> I think it's strong enough as far as holding wait from above goes but if you ever had an earthquake or something that makes it twist you might have problems. Maybe put plywood walls on the sides and that would really add strength. Or add some diagonal bracing on the sides like an a frame.
> 
> I live in California so I do mine a little overkill because I know there will be an earthquake eventually.


I think I will definitely add the plywood walls, both for stability as you suggest and to make it easier on the eye. We hardly ever get even after tremors here in Canada, but the thought of an earth quake did cross my mind.

Thanks for the feedback!

Cheers,


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## deepstarsix (Oct 30, 2013)

larams said:


> 15lbs is more weight but way stronger. It's worth doubling the legs IMO.
> 
> I've got a store bought stand that is like 32" tall and it scares me that it would tip over some day. I usually build them at around 26" tall and that is pretty stable without being to short.


Right, OK this is the big decision I need to make: 2x4 or mock 4x4. Anyone else care to chime in on the load bearing capacity of the legs as is with one 2x4 per leg?

I've reworked the sketch so that the total height is 30" tall and added the plywood paneling. Do you think even 30" is too tall?

Thanks for the feedback!


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## deepstarsix (Oct 30, 2013)

AaronT said:


> You can just use 3/4" plywood, rabbet the joints, and screw and glue them. That's what I'm doing on my build and it's solid as a rock. Just make sure to incorporate some kind of header to support the front.


Thanks for the feedback. I'm new to woodworking. This would be my first big project really. I don't have a router, would I need that to rabbet the joints?

For simplicity sake, would my existing design work with the plywood just nailed in to the skeleton of the stand?

What do you mean when you say "header to support the front"?

I'm thinking of doing something different for the door. Is that OK or do I need paneling all around and in the front for support too?

Sorry for my newbness and question bombs.

Thanks again.


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## deepstarsix (Oct 30, 2013)

Here is an updated version with 8, 2x4s for the legs. I'm wondering, if I go this route is it necessary to have the bottom hardware since there is the plywood paneling on 3 sides of the perimeter adding structural stability? 

The second attachment has a view with the bottom hardware gone.

Thanks for looking. Time to peel myself from the chair and find food.

Cheers.


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## AKnickolai (Nov 30, 2007)

I build a 40G breeder tank stand very similar to this. Use wood glue and screw all your joints and skin it with 1/4" to 1/2" plywood and with will hold the tank no problem, at least 2-3x stronger than it needs to be in sheer and untold of amounts overbuilt in compression. Unless you are really savvy with making things level or enjoy a good bit of sanding, I would finish the tank surface with ~1/2" of floor leveler from home depot to make sure the tank bedding surface is perfectly flat. Also consider installing heavy duty leveling legs if you plan to install on a floor of questionable flatness. The ones in the link hold 600lb a piece and are more than enough for your application. You need to be somewhat creative how you install them, if you put them all on the inner perimeter of the frame (so you can't see them from the outside) the resulting stand will be too tippy because the contact points are so close together.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, if you want to use a nice plywood for skinning (like oak, maple etc.) you can use wood glue, clamps, and finishing nails. The final product will be 99% as strong, but it is easier to hide the small finish nail hole instead of a screw head.


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## deepstarsix (Oct 30, 2013)

AKnickolai said:


> I build a 40G breeder tank stand very similar to this. Use wood glue and screw all your joints and skin it with 1/4" to 1/2" plywood and with will hold the tank no problem, at least 2-3x stronger than it needs to be in sheer and untold of amounts overbuilt in compression. Unless you are really savvy with making things level or enjoy a good bit of sanding, I would finish the tank surface with ~1/2" of floor leveler from home depot to make sure the tank bedding surface is perfectly flat. Also consider installing heavy duty leveling legs if you plan to install on a floor of questionable flatness. The ones in the link hold 600lb a piece and are more than enough for your application. You need to be somewhat creative how you install them, if you put them all on the inner perimeter of the frame (so you can't see them from the outside) the resulting stand will be too tippy because the contact points are so close together.
> 
> EDIT: Forgot to mention, if you want to use a nice plywood for skinning (like oak, maple etc.) you can use wood glue, clamps, and finishing nails. The final product will be 99% as strong, but it is easier to hide the small finish nail hole instead of a screw head.


Lots of great feedback and tips in here AKnickolai. Thanks! I've heard of the foam under the tank to help with stress/leveling, but didn't read about floor leveler. Sounds like a perfect material for the job. Thanks!

When you made your tank, did you use 8, 2x4s for the legs, or just 4? Are you thinking 8 is the way to go?

Do you think I can scratch the bottom 2x4s as shown in the previous attached pic? I'm thinking the plywood skinning is going to add enough structural support for sheer/twist stress. It adds around 21lbs for that bottom lumber, nearly half the total weight, so if it's not needed it's worth it to scratch it or potentially tone it down perhaps and just use the longer 2x4s running across the width. Any thoughts?

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Much appreciated.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

Yeah, your design will more than hold the tank. 

A header supports a span, like over a door or window.


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## AKnickolai (Nov 30, 2007)

I used 8 because I didn't really care about weight. The finished product was still light enough for me to move on my own. You could use 4 and still have enough compression strength to handle the load of a 30 gallon tank, I'd probably use 1/2" plywood in that case. I do tend to build things much stronger than they need to be =) Are you saying eliminate the two 2'8" runnings that are a red color in your picture? I probably would leave them, I can't imagine they weigh in a 21lbs for about 6' of 2x4. You could change the orientation of the beams 90degrees on the top part of your frame (where the tank sits), so it looks like a picture frame with 45 degree cuts if you were you loo look at it from the top down. You could ditch the center brace this way and the 45 degree joints would have a different "weak" axis than the 90degree joints you use everywhere else.

Foam helps under tanks, but floor leveler is easier imo. Just use short screws and left over plywood to make a dam where the tank will rest and caulk the joints, pour the leveler, let it dry, and remove the dam pieces and you're good to go. The alternative can have you sanding and checking with a level a LOT and you'd likely still need the foam mat. I used to be a big foam under tank guy, but all my recent builds have used floor leveler on top of overbuild stands and the tank bed area has always turned out perfectly level and I've had no issues w/o the foam.

Another thing I should have mentioned about finishing the piece. If you are going to paint it, primer it first and use Benjamin Moore Advance or Sherwin Williams Pro Classic water based Alkyd paints (1 coat primer 2-3 coats paint). I'd get the semi gloss finish for a good mix of water resistance and its not being too flashy. All other latex based paints you can buy are inferior for finishing furniture and you will be sorry of you use them. Sherwin Williams Pro Classic dries faster, but is only available in lighter colors. Benjamin Moore Advance needs to dry 16 hours between coats, but it levels very well (brush marks disappear as the paint dries), and is available in just about every color. You can't go wrong either way, Benjamin Moore Advance is slightly more expensive. You'll only need a quart of primer and paint for the project.

If you want to go the natural grain look, Watco oil with an oil based Polyurethane top coat is beautiful, durable, and water resistant (takes more time to do though). You'll find that many furniture pros don't like the Watco oil so much because of the ingredients, that is far beyond the scope of this post, you can google it if you like. Regardless, I can assure you Watco oil under Poly will create a wonderful looking durable finish, and its available your big box remodeling stores.


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## deepstarsix (Oct 30, 2013)

Thanks for all the pointers AKnickolai. I think I"m going to go with 8, 2x4s as I've changed my designed a bit to use some rabbet type joints (thanks AaronT). I was a bit worried about how the top base was to be fastened to the legs. I only had a short 2x4 acted as a sort of patch between the legs and top with screws. While this would work with the glue there seemed something hokey about it.

I got the 21lbs not just from the 2, 2x4s but the 2 small 2x4s running along the depth at the bottom perpendicular to them. If you think they need at least the long red ones maybe I'll keep those. I figured that with the plywood paneling on three sides it seemed redundant having those. But I think you're right, it just seems more solid that way - and I do see that on a lot of workbench setups.

I like the idea of changing the angle of the top middle support brace(s). Seems to make sense, I'll try a few designs in my sketch. However, since there will be plywood on the top as well, and all of the load of the tank falls on the perimeter I'm wondering again if that additional support is necessary with the ply on top.

I've never used floor leveler. I thought it was like foam but fancier. I didn't know you need to pour it out. Is it expensive? I might need to hit you up with some further direction on building that dam etc...I do have a beaver mask from last Halloween. 

Excellent advice regarding the painting. You saved me a lot of work and time. Cheers!


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## deepstarsix (Oct 30, 2013)

AaronT said:


> Yeah, your design will more than hold the tank.
> 
> A header supports a span, like over a door or window.


Thanks for clarifying AaronT. I like your stand, very modern, looks great!


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## deepstarsix (Oct 30, 2013)

Here is some of the progression of the design. I'm basically just trying to figure a better way of fastening the top to the legs. I feel like I'm going over the deep end here in sketchup. Let me know if this is overkill. I do like how it works and I think I can do it all with a jigsaw that I hopefully can borrow, or maybe rent from the depot.

The first attachment (cutout) shows the original design for mating the top and legs. The red dots would be screw positions and I was going to ask about driving a screw diagonally where the green line denotes.

Then I was thinking additionally I could add a dowel between the two. (cutout_plug)

Then I scrapped all that and started reading about making wood joints for furniture and came up with (joints). Apparently mating wood in this manner is the strongest approach, the glue proving stronger than the wood itself, thus creating a sort of "solid piece". Also an exploded version (joints_exploded). Would love any feedback here. Is this possible with a jigsaw. Is it OK that one of the lips/rabbet is only 7/8" tall? I realize there is way more room for error but that's OK. I'll get some extra 2x4s. 

All the feedback has been really great so far. I think I'm over-analyzing the situation a bit and I'm sure most of these would work. I guess since the wood is somewhat expensive and time is at a premium. That and once it's built it's built so I'd like to be happy with it. Ya...that's why...it's not obsessive. .

Again, thanks for all the great feedback all!


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

That's a pretty complicated joint to achieve with a jigsaw. 

Simple rabbets or lap joints can be made on a table saw with the help of a dado stack blade and or some homemade jigs. Those joints are both still very strong.


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## AKnickolai (Nov 30, 2007)

I agree with Aaron, those might be some uber strong joints, but they will be difficult to build - especially without some specific tools. Your original design may not be as strong as possible, but it will be plenty strong enough for your desired application. As far as attaching the plywood skin, I would use a few finishing nails, glue, and clamps. You only need a few nails to help hold the plywood piece in place while you apply the clamps. I understand the obsession with researching before building things, I'm a perfectionist and an engineer!


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## deepstarsix (Oct 30, 2013)

AaronT said:


> That's a pretty complicated joint to achieve with a jigsaw.
> 
> Simple rabbets or lap joints can be made on a table saw with the help of a dado stack blade and or some homemade jigs. Those joints are both still very strong.


Let's say I was compelled to make these tongue and grove joints. I've done much simpler one's when making a box/frame for my worm bin. These are a lot more complicated but actually larger in size which may be easier cutting-wise. Is it possible with the jigsaw? What issues might I run into?

Thanks!


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## deepstarsix (Oct 30, 2013)

AKnickolai said:


> I agree with Aaron, those might be some uber strong joints, but they will be difficult to build - especially without some specific tools. Your original design may not be as strong as possible, but it will be plenty strong enough for your desired application. As far as attaching the plywood skin, I would use a few finishing nails, glue, and clamps. You only need a few nails to help hold the plywood piece in place while you apply the clamps. I understand the obsession with researching before building things, I'm a perfectionist and an engineer!


What specific tools would be required? I feel like a jigsaw should be able to fire through these and as long as my measurements are precise I should be OK no? I like the look of the joints and I think I would leave them exposed if this is possible.

Thanks for the tips on the plywood. I'll need to buy some clamps. Trying to keep the cost down.

Thanks for all your help so far!


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## deepstarsix (Oct 30, 2013)

Attached is a revised design. I've changed the one cross brace on the top to two diagonal braces, creating a different "weak" axis (thanks AKnickolai). I've also added some braces at the bottom which will operate as a shelf as well.


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## AKnickolai (Nov 30, 2007)

Well, that is a very very strong stand. You'd need a jigsaw and a metal triangle that you can clamp to the wood to make your cuts strait and perpendicular. Building your own stuff is never going to be cheaper than buying a stand, especially if you have to buy tools. You can make the costs comparable though, and home built stands are waaayy nicer looking and stronger than what you can buy. If you're new to wood working a plywood pocket joint stand might be an easier first attempt, but if you want to learn how to build cool exposed joints, go for it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## deepstarsix (Oct 30, 2013)

AKnickolai said:


> Well, that is a very very strong stand. You'd need a jigsaw and a metal triangle that you can clamp to the wood to make your cuts strait and perpendicular. Building your own stuff is never going to be cheaper than buying a stand, especially if you have to buy tools. You can make the costs comparable though, and home built stands are waaayy nicer looking and stronger than what you can buy. If you're new to wood working a plywood pocket joint stand might be an easier first attempt, but if you want to learn how to build cool exposed joints, go for it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for all your help. I'll try to remember to take some pics and track my progress. Then I'll post back here.

Thanks again!


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## sonvar (Oct 21, 2013)

I am in the process of building a fish tank stand my self. I am thinking you may be over enginering it. The stand I am replaceing holds a 54 gal corner tank. The estimated weight is ~600 lbs. It is made totally out of 1x2's. Now This stand is failing, thus why I am building a more robust stand. I am thinking 2x4 should hold a 30 gal tank fairly well. Connect the top and bottom with a square frame and cover the exterior should be fine. 
Though your stand seems to be lacking in doors. If you are skilled enough in wood working it can help to have a door to utilize that space.


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## zchauvin (Jul 28, 2011)

I like the effort you put but man.... You are going way way way overboard and over kill for a 30g tank lol.


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