# DIY liquid auto doser



## jpmtotoro

Ok... I'm lazy. Super lazy. I wanted to be able to fertilize daily without actually FERTILIZING daily, ya know? So some people here in the past talked about using peristaltic pumps with timers but I haven't seen anyone actually slap together a working system and post... so I'll do it! I'll first go through a run-down of my materials...

6 peristaltic pumps from www.aptinstruments.com. I used the OEM SP100 pumps (18rpm) w/ 1.6mm norprene tubing (about 0.9ml/min flow). i wanted to be able to dose up to 6 different wet ferts, so i bought six. wanna do 3? buy 3.

for the controllers, i got lazy... i picked up a bunch of table lamp digital timers off amazon.com. they were about 12 bucks a piece and have batteries in case of brief power outages. i put one timer on each pump so i could run them independently. if you are good and know what ratios you need to dose, you can get away with fewer. i went for maximum flexibility (at a much greater expense, though). the timers do an OK job. they have 2 "events" so you can even choose to dose twice a day if you'd like. in addition, you can easily turn them "on" for a few minutes manually if you want to dose something in particular.
http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-TB...ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1234121541&sr=8-1

i also ordered about 50 feet of norprene tubing from APT as well. in addition, i picked up a few 90 degree elbow connectors so i could make the tube "hook" over the lip of the aquarium.

i have a prototype shop at work, so i whipped up a small "stand" to hold the reservoirs and the pumps are attached above. you can make this out of wood, metal, plastic, WHATEVER. it is not important at all. i used 1/2 gallon milk jugs (cleaned thoroughly) because they are tall and skinny so i could squeeze them in under my stand nicely.

as you can see, each side has 3 jugs and 3 pumps. the desktop lamp timers are nice because the "controller" portion has a cord that runs back to the power strip, so i could mount everything on the door.

so far, i've been running the pumps for about 1 month and i'm very happy. i keep slowly upping the time because i think there is a lot of backpressure so 0.9ml/min isn't what the flow seems to be. something less than that. but since everything is controlled independently, i can just increase whatever i need to increase. i can easily see what ferts are running low. i just used a label maker to clearly label everything. i spray-painted the "stand" black just so i didn't have to look at the bare metal (plus i'm avoiding rust).

oh, the only downside to the lamp timers is that they aren't grouned, so you should probably ground the pumps (mine were not grounded at the time i took these pictures).

it's not perfect, pretty, or sexy... but it works! you have no idea how nice it is just knowing that my ferts get dumped in every morning before the lights go on. and the 1/2 gallon jugs hold quite a lot of ferts... so i don't have to fill them very often. the ultimate in low maintenance!

and to avoid contamination, the output tubes are NOT in contact with the water. the output tubes bend over the lip of the aquarium to hook on, but there is a significant gap between the tubing and the water. the tubes are always filled with fertilizer, so people should keep that in mind if they ever set something like this up!

all in all... maybe around 500 bucks for the pumps and timers. everything else is cheap. and again... 6 independently controlled pumps should be overkill for anyone here. i would assume most people would only dose 2, 3, or 4 different liquids.

JP


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## Patchworks

I always love DIY projects and I'm in the process of making a DIY Dosing pump. I like what you have done, but I don't like the price tag!! 

Anyway, have you ever taken a look at the "Tom Aquatics Aqua Lifter—Dosing Pump". You could get those for $15 and put them on a digital time for 1 minute. This would be a lot cheaper!!!

g


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## jpmtotoro

yeah i didn't like the price tag either, but it has worked out to be pretty good. plus these are fairly heavy duty pumps... i plan on running them for a looooooong time.

i haven't seen the tom's pump thing before (just looked at it). certainly interesting... i never found any decent stuff in my searches so i decided to suck it up and do this. it was a while ago... i was just too lazy to post the pictures up here!

i'd be interested in seeing the durability of these 15-dollar pumps, plus the actual strength (can these push liquid against gravity for 5-ish feet?)... but definitely good for the budget-minded (I know I would have jumped all over them when I was a poor college bum).

thanks for sharing!


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## Patchworks

jpmtotoro said:


> yeah i didn't like the price tag either, but it has worked out to be pretty good. plus these are fairly heavy duty pumps... i plan on running them for a looooooong time.
> 
> i haven't seen the tom's pump thing before (just looked at it). certainly interesting... i never found any decent stuff in my searches so i decided to suck it up and do this. it was a while ago... i was just too lazy to post the pictures up here!
> 
> i'd be interested in seeing the durability of these 15-dollar pumps, plus the actual strength (can these push liquid against gravity for 5-ish feet?)... but definitely good for the budget-minded (I know I would have jumped all over them when I was a poor college bum).
> 
> thanks for sharing!


Yeah, I think those cheap tom's dosing pumps are only rated for 30". I thought I read that somewhere. Head pressure is not as big of an issue for me cause I'm building an all in one inline Heater, CO2 Reactor, Liquid Ferts which will all be under the tank.

I'm actually working on a project that I use an air pump going into a gang value concept. The parts should be coming in this week.

g


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## Chris.

Very cool idea and completion! Too pricey for me though. I only dose excel and flourish though.


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## intothenew

jpmtotoro said:


> it's not perfect, pretty, or sexy... but it works! you have no idea how nice it is just knowing that my ferts get dumped in every morning before the lights go on. and the 1/2 gallon jugs hold quite a lot of ferts... so i don't have to fill them very often. the ultimate in low maintenance!


You're a man after my my heart. How long has this been up and running? Any issues, like balancing ferts, or salt build-ups, or hoses cracking, or............?

I had made up my mind to purchase dosers for ferts a few months ago. I do worry about the long term issues. Thanks for the post, this is great!

Oh, the importance is compounded during football season, hunting season, and good enough weather to ride a motorcycle. Maintenance is a hard crew to keep around.


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## BobH

Why the air gap? I'm setting up a tank with everything coming through bulkheads in the bottom of the tank. Would check valves at the point of introduction to the water stream serve the same purpose? 
Those dosing pumps are sort of positive displacement by the cam pinching the hose aren't they? I've got access to a pretty good toy shop at work too and love your set up. Bob


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## jpmtotoro

so far, it's been up and running for about 2-ish months. it's been solid so far. i just keep tweaking the fert amount. with the independent timers, it's quite easy, so i don't worry about balancing. need more K? run the K pump for 2 more minutes per day. done. And the 1/2 gallon jugs last quite a while (the lowest one is still 1/2 full). so, i'm quite happy with it so far.

obviously, 2 months isn't going to crack and destroy anything yet... the norprene tubing SHOULD last quite a long time, though. i hope. that's the plan at least. and if it doesn't... it will take me 10 minutes to replace all the tubing.

as for the air gap... i did it so the aquarium water (and the microorganisms in it) would not come in contact with a 6-foot tubes of pure fertilizers. i'm pretty sure gunk would start growing and living in the tubes and it would just be bad in general. so now, stuff just "falls" into the water and the tubes stay pure.

as for the idea of a check valve... it SOUNDS ok, but the cautious side of me says no, and here's why: the pumps are extremely slow. i mean, this thing DRIPS ferts into my tank. drip..... drip.... drip... these are IV pumps. so i'm sure the check valves would open and the ferts would go in, but i think there would be some bi-directional flow as soon as the valve opened, because the pressure is just SO low. so i THINK there would still be some sort of back flush. i'm not certain, but it's not something i wanted to test on my system. besides, draping it over the back of the tank really is no big deal. the tubing is very flexible and small. but if you want to give it a go with check-valves, please do and give us feedback!

as for the pumps... the company also sells pumps with controllers built in. so they have the same capabilities of what i "created." however, they were quite a bit more expensive than my 12-dollar table lamp timers. plus my lamp timers have small internal batteries so the settings aren't erased during a power outage (or if i just unplug stuff for fun). so that's a bonus.

anyway, i'm sure there are a few ways of doing this. i know a lot of people here spend so much time perfecting their ferts but then they still dose manually. i just wanted everyone to see that YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS! STOP THE MADNESS!

this was definitely a worth-while project. i am much happier with my aquarium when it doesn't look like a giant maintenance CHORE. i think on my next tank (many years from now), i'm going to build in some sort of an "easy" water-change solution. then i'll reach nirvana.


JP


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## jpmtotoro

intothenew said:


> You're a man after my my heart.


this is a true compliment, coming from the nutty guy who made an I-beam elevator that would make an egyptian pharoh jealous.


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## nickman

wow, you make some reefers i know look like work-a-holics. haha! very cool set-up, man. now all you need is a robot to bring you beer and you're all set!

-nick


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## BobH

I was thinking of diluting the concentrations more, say 10-1 so I could pump more volume to make the metering easier and flush the lines better. I may still give it a try as I just tore down my 26gal bowfront to drill the bottom. If that dosn't work watch for my new 75 gal bowfront!


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## jpmtotoro

diluting would work, i guess... it didn't really seem like an option for me. i'm going for super lazy. therefore, i don't want to keep re-filling the reservoirs! heck, i hooked this thing up around xmas and i have only used about 2/3 of my potassium reservoir! so i figure at MOST, i'll have to fill this thing up 4 times per year. that sounds much better to me than filling it 40 times per year :-D

line flush is another interesting idea... i don't know how the lines will behave over time. i guess i'll just find out. SO FAR, no problems though. i really love not dosing daily. i really, really love it....


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## Zapins

Hey great job on the DIY. freemann also has some DIY dosing pumps.

By the way, I can't access the web page for some reason. I keep getting text instead of a page with info. How much were they per pump?

Also, Tom Aquatics Aqua Lifter—Dosing Pump aren't good for dosing. They have nearly no pressure when it comes to liquids. If you were to use them, they'd have to be on the same level as the rim of the tank to pump liquid.


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## Patchworks

Zapins said:


> Hey great job on the DIY. freemann also has some DIY dosing pumps.
> 
> By the way, I can't access the web page for some reason. I keep getting text instead of a page with info. How much were they per pump?
> 
> Also, Tom Aquatics Aqua Lifter-Dosing Pump aren't good for dosing. They have nearly no pressure when it comes to liquids. If you were to use them, they'd have to be on the same level as the rim of the tank to pump liquid.


This is good to know, I actually was planning on trying them and luckily I'm dosing in-line under the tank so it would be ok. I won't have much head pressure.

g


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## zdam20

Great project! I used to use a perastalic for makeup water on a reef tank. It worked very well but I bought too small of tubing and it ran probably 12 hours a day. The plastic around the bearings for the rotor wore out and the pump stopped pumping after about a year. If you can limit the pump run to an hour a day or so by selecting the right size tubing and motor speed they should last long enough to be economical. Thanks for posting!


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## ghengis

Curious about your timer settings and how you have regulated your dosages? How long do you run each pump for and how accurate is each dose? I see you mentioned the tubing used is good for about 0.9ml/min of flow...should I assume then that for a 10ml dose you have your timer set to 11.11111111r minutes??


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## Patchworks

Opps. Sorry, my earlier post was in reference to another post and I was mistaken...

Well after thinking about this, I don't believe it would be a good idea. As the head pressure changes, the amount you dose would change as well...

g


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## zdam20

Perastalic pumps will pump the same amount up until the tubing bursts. These are positive displacement pumps.


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## jpmtotoro

Sorry, haven't been on much to answer questions!

ok, problem number 1 cropped up... the flourish line got clogged! the stuff dried up at the tip after a while and that was the end of that. now i just make sure i look at it once a month to make sure it stays clean. I just poke a paper clip in it to keep it clean. it only crusts up right at the very end, thankfully. i've also started to dose flourish twice a day now... MAYBE that will help it from crusting over so quickly? we'll see. but my lamp timers can have two on/off periods, so why the heck not run it for a few minutes in the afternoon? 

as for the 0.9ml thing... to be honest, i just guestimated as close as i could. and then when my plants showed signs of deficiencies, i bumped up the time. i kept taking readings to make sure i wasn't poisoning anything. but my nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, and phosphates all stayed low, but present. the nice part about it is that it gets added DAILY (or twice daily if you feel like it). so if you have one or two stem plants that you can watch, you can tweak settings that way. AND on top of that... you always have your water changes to save your butt!

actually, there is one downside i'll mention... it makes you lazy. and mistakes happen when you're lazy. i stopped monitoring the tank for a bit, and the PH dropped. Why? because my KH dropped to nothing! I've never seen it before. i've even gone for like 6 months without water changes on tanks before and never noticed it. suffice it to say, i'm recovering from it.

as for the price of the pumps... brace yourself... i think they were about 70 bucks a piece (ball park). So with 6 pumps, you can see how the price would add up quickly! then again, i think most people would probably use 3 or 4. but then again... there are people on this forum with 200 gallon gardens, and they may consider 500 bucks for a robust auto-doser to be a valuable investment!

i think next time, i may go with larger diameter tubing. the current tubing is fine, but as one member pointed out, the fewer rotations the pump has to make, the better. on the bright side, the tubing that gets squeezed can be easily replaced (and the bearing and roller assembly too, i think). so... when the thing fails in 2 or 4 or 10 years or whatever, i'll happily spend 50 bucks and replace the wearable parts and continue on with life.


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## jpmtotoro

www.aptinstruments.com is the website. the model i picked up was SP100 FO (fixed output). it's under the OEM pump section. they also sell better-looking ones with housings and stuff, which did not interest me.

as for the in-line dosing... that would be interesting. i considered it, but decided against it BECAUSE... i figured the water in your tank has STUFF in it, and it will grow back into the tube most likely. by having the fertilizer DRIP into the tank, it guarantees that algae and whatever else cannot get into the tube. as i've already found out... a tiny amount of build-up in the tube will block it off, so i'd be wary of that. however, if anyone else actually wants to do an in-line or has already done something like that, please post your feedback!


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## jpmtotoro

BobH said:


> I was thinking of diluting the concentrations more, say 10-1 so I could pump more volume to make the metering easier and flush the lines better. I may still give it a try as I just tore down my 26gal bowfront to drill the bottom. If that dosn't work watch for my new 75 gal bowfront!


up-side to this is using larger tubing and flushing it, like you say. downside is you'd likely be running the motors MUCH longer, which would wear them down much more quickly. try it and let us know


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## Ultimbow

i realy like your project because i am lazy too on that stuff but after spending that much money for a diy why not just go for aquamedic dosing pump same thing already put together and about same price.

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewI...twater_Aquarium_Supplies&vendor=&child=AQ4571


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## jpmtotoro

because to dose 6 liquids, it would have cost 720 bucks. instead, mine was about 500 i think. i wouldn't quite call that similar in price. 

also, the programming is apparently a little odd, and the thing goes bonkers when there is a power outage and needs to be reset (or slap it on a battery backup). the crappy little lamp timers i used have small batteries in them so short power outages are already covered. so even if the price was exactly the same, mine works how i want it to, with a large degree of flexibility. priceless to me!

sometimes off-the-shelf stuff is worth it; but for some of the people here who have the capability to slap their own stuff together, it's good to see how it can be done. gives them a bit more freedom to set things up exactly how they'd like them to be.

why build a canopy? why build a reactor? why do any of these things on your own?


...because you can 




on a side note, the first "problem" crept up. the self-adhering velcro strips i used... don't use them! the timers get luke-warm to the touch, which keeps the adhesive gummy. the timers started falling off the door recently (what has it been? 5 months or so?). so i hung corner brackets from the door and gravity shouldn't be a problem anymore. 

lesson learned = no sticky velcro!


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## peanutbowl

just a little side note on the use of positive displacement pumps and neoprene hose. i work in a restaurant where these kinds of pumps are used for sauce portioning. managing a consistant portion is crucial to our product quality, therefore we have to calibrate these pumps daily. granted, our sauce pumps are much larger that the ones you are using for ferts, but i imagine you will run into the same kinds of issues. we use 3/4 inch tubing in our pumps. anyway, you will find that you will have to constantly increase the time that the pump runs in order to keep the same dose. for example, we have to change out the neoprene hose that comes in contact with the cam about every two to three months. if we don't, the hose bursts and we have a mess to clean up. when the hose is new, it only takes 2.5 seconds to move 10 oz of sauce. within a couple of weeks, that time will increase to anywhere from 3.5 to 4 seconds for 10 oz. by the time we change out the hose, i've had timers set up as high as 5.5 seconds for 10 oz. so keep an eye on your dose. and if you do ever change out your hose, be ready to cut back on time.
i do love the idea of not having to worry about dosing everyday. in my quest for automation in the tank, i'll definately keep this idea in my pocket. excellent read.


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## jpmtotoro

peanutbowl said:


> just a little side note on the use of positive displacement pumps and neoprene hose. i work in a restaurant where these kinds of pumps are used for sauce portioning. managing a consistant portion is crucial to our product quality, therefore we have to calibrate these pumps daily. granted, our sauce pumps are much larger that the ones you are using for ferts, but i imagine you will run into the same kinds of issues. we use 3/4 inch tubing in our pumps. anyway, you will find that you will have to constantly increase the time that the pump runs in order to keep the same dose. for example, we have to change out the neoprene hose that comes in contact with the cam about every two to three months. if we don't, the hose bursts and we have a mess to clean up. when the hose is new, it only takes 2.5 seconds to move 10 oz of sauce. within a couple of weeks, that time will increase to anywhere from 3.5 to 4 seconds for 10 oz. by the time we change out the hose, i've had timers set up as high as 5.5 seconds for 10 oz. so keep an eye on your dose. and if you do ever change out your hose, be ready to cut back on time.
> i do love the idea of not having to worry about dosing everyday. in my quest for automation in the tank, i'll definately keep this idea in my pocket. excellent read.


i will definitely have to keep this in mind. i'm HOPING that my application will out-last a commercial restaurant's sauce-delivery system. i'm running the pumps for 10 to 20 minutes per day usually, so i'm assuming the tubing will last longer. so far, so good. still tweaking fert quantities, trying to get them as "right" as possible; but that's no fault of the system. it puts in exactly how much i want, and when i want it; i just have to figure out what those magic numbers are!


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## apm

That is some crazy setup... I like it, how is it running after all that time?


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## Andy Ritter

After reading this thread, I thought that you might like to know about the experiment that I have started. I wasn't sure if I should start a new thread, but I finally decided to just reply to this one. My apologies if that decision was incorrect.

I too have been guilty of being too lazy to get up and go fertilize my tank. However, far more often the problem has actually been that I wasn't home to fertilize. For instance, a few weeks ago I went on vacation to Hawaii for two weeks. I was really concerned about the consequences of not fertilizing for that long, so I decided to have my in-laws to do it for me since they would be dropping by to feed the dog and check on the house anyway. However, I was also concerned about the in-laws not measuring correctly, so I had to measure out the ferts into individual containers with explicit instructions so the likelihood of messing up was minimized. I use PPS-pro, so that meant I had to come up with 28 containers for all of the pre-measured ferts. After going through that, I decided that enough was enough. I had read some of the other threads on APC about how others had tackled this problem, so I already had some ideas.

I also want to mention that laziness and absenteeism aren't the only reasons that I have wanted to automate the fertilization. I'm not a scientist, but logic tells me that most of the environments that our plants are from are probably relatively stable. I realize that rain storms occur and probably change the water parameters some, or maybe even in some cases, a lot. That being said, I doubt that in nature the plants have to deal with getting all of their nutrients for an entire day every morning before the sun comes up. They probably are more used to having the nutrients slowly leached into the water all day.

So for both of these reasons, I decided I wanted a system that would slowly drip the fertilizers in continuously. I wanted it to be accurate, dependable, well-made, and as fail safe as possible. I also didn't want it to be visible, since my aquarium is in the den of my house.

I looked at the enteral feeding pumps that are used to feed people through a tube directly into their stomach, but I decided that most of the ones available aren't designed for the extremely low rate that would be needed. They also aren't designed to pump against any back pressure, so I was concerned that they wouldn't be able to lift the fluid from down in the cabinet to up over the edge of the tank. On top of that, the ones that were capable of the low rates go for a lot on eBay ($200 or more, each).

Then I came across the infusion pumps that are used by hospitals to inject fluids into the bloodstream. These are capable of very low rates (as low as .1 mL per hour), are designed to pump against blood pressure (the one that I bought will raise the pressure up to 10 psi before sounding a warning that the tubing is clogged), have a built in battery to protect against power outages (mine will supposedly run for 4 hours on the battery if dosing 125 mL per hour, and even longer if dosing at lower rates), are computer controlled and programmable, and on top of all that, they are made to be used on people, so they are very well made.

After researching the best that I could, which involved intensive internet searches, talking with a cousin of mine that is a nurse, and also calling facilities that service these pieces of equipment and asking to talk to the service technicians that know the most about them, I decided that getting one of these would be worth trying. Then I just had to figure out which one to buy. That decision came down to mostly economics. Keep in mind that most of these pumps are several thousand dollars when new (I found out that hospitals don't even buy them; they lease them). However, there apparently is a pretty big market for older models that have been taken out of service, especially on eBay. To make a long story short, I chose the IMED Gemini PC-2TX pump, which is actually two pumps in one. With this one unit, I can independently pump two separate fluids, which made it perfect for PPS-pro usage. Here's a link to a site that has some information about the one that I bought:

http://www.firstbiomed.com/catalog_mfg_item.aspx?equip_id=103&id=2&key=equip_therapy_id

I managed to get an exceptional deal on eBay (I paid less than $52 total), but even so, there are plenty out there for less than $100 including shipping. Then the only thing you would have to do is get the specialized (and required) tubing sets that go with the specific pump that you buy. That, I have found, is considerably more difficult to do than buying the pump. However, the infusion sets do appear on eBay occasionally, but as I said, they are specific to the particular pump that you buy. Fortunately, I was finally able to get a supplier convinced that I wasn't going to use these on people and was able to buy four sets for about $45 (everyone else had said that I would have to have a license to buy them). Therefore, I have invested right at $100 for my system, and in theory, should only have to replace the tubing sets every so often (that's why I bought four; I have a spare pair when the first pair splits).

I decided to mix up my PPS-pro solutions at one-half strength, so I just used two liters of water instead of one liter. The only difference is now I dose twice as much. I have a 75 gallon tank, so I set both pumps to infuse at .6 mL per hour. It's been going for almost a week now, and so far I haven't experienced any problems. I have no idea how long the tubing sets will last before they develop splits, but I'm hoping that they will last a really long time.

Right now I have the hoses on the suction side just sticking down into the bottles of solution. However, I am planning on getting some graduated containers to put the solutions in so I can compare the actual amount left in the containers to the amount that the pumps say they have infused (I did some test with the pumps before I actually started using them on the aquarium to check the accuracy, and even though it wasn't exactly the same, it was within a mL after 24 hours, and I can always change the programming if necessary).

I hope this information has been helpful. I would be happy to provide pictures and more information if requested.

Andy


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## Andy Ritter

The following is in response to a PM that I thought others might like to read:



intermediate_noob said:


> That was a great post, thank you very much for putting it up on the forums. If you would not mind me asking a few questions about this as I have always toyed with the ideas after reading about these pumps a year or so ago.
> 
> 
> Why did you mix your PPS-pro solutions at half strength?
> Do you find that you have a lot of precipitate in your containers? (Especially for the macro ferts)
> What kind of heights can these pump to, or do you have them pulling the liquid from under your tank?
> 
> I would appreciate any answers you might be able to provide. Thanks again.


Hello,

Thanks for letting me know that you liked my post. You are the first one to take an interest. I figured when I posted what I was doing with this pump that lots of people would be excited, but that hasn't been the case. Maybe there aren't as many people interested in automation as I thought.

I'm still in the experimentation phase of this project, so it's a good possibility that things might change, but I'm happy with how it's going so far.

I'm going to have to break my response up into pieces, since after typing it up and trying to submit it, I received a warning that the text was too long, so here's part 1:

I had two thought processes that led me to the conclusion that I should try mixing at half strength. I had always fertilized using fertilizers sold for aquariums, most recently with the Flourish line from Seachem. I was having a very difficult time achieving the "recommended" amounts of NO3, PO4, and Fe using these products. I started buying the dry ferts and experimented with adding them in order to achieve the proper amounts in the water. The plants started doing much better, but I found myself testing the water a lot in order to fine tune the amounts of the ferts to add. This became a pain, so I researched other methods. I decided that the PPS pro method sounded like the best option, since I like to enjoy my tank, not constantly work on it (don't get me wrong, I enjoy trimming the plants and doing the occasional water change, but only about every 2 to 3 weeks). When I mixed up my first batch of PPS pro, I noticed pretty quickly that the macro solution would get a precipitate that would settle to the bottom, and I would have to shake it up every time that I fertilized. When I got this pump, I figured that if there was more water, there would be less of a chance that a precipitate would form. I went with twice as much water since that makes the calculation for dosing really simple. I am no longer having the problem with the precipitate forming (which answers your second question). Another reason that I thought this would be a good idea was for better fine tuning of the fertilization. The infusion pump is capable of flow rates as low as .1 mL per hour. However, I wasn't sure exactly how accurate it would be. Granted, it is a medical device, so the technology, fail safes, and accuracies have to be very good, especially considering how quick people are to seek legal action in today's society. None-the-less, I figured that it might be more accurate at slightly higher flow rates (I don't have any info that proves that, it just made sense to me for some reason). Since my tank is 75 gallons, according to the PPS pro system, I should dose 7.5 mL per day (only a little more than .3 mL per hour). Since I mixed my solutions with twice as much water, I have been dosing at .6 mL per hour (which is 14.4 mL per day, instead of the instructed 15 mL, but I decided to go with the slightly lower amount for now). With the solutions mixed at half strength, it will be much easier to tweak the amounts added to the tank (although I have been so busy over the last few weeks that I haven't really had a chance to get into that too much).


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## Andy Ritter

Part 2:

I started using the PPS pro system in March, and quite honestly, have been so busy since then, that I haven't been testing the water parameters to see if I needed to tweak how much I have been adding (I guess I just trusted the system so much that I felt like I could get away with not testing as much as I had been). I installed the infusion pump on August 1st with the initial setting of .6 mL per hour, using the new batch of PPS pro mixed at half strength. On August 16th I tested the water for the first time since March, and was shocked at my findings. The Fe was at .1 ppm, PO4 at .65 ppm, and the NO3 was at 50 ppm(the test kit only goes to 50, so for all I know it might be higher than that)! This actually doesn't have anything to do with the infusion pump itself, but more to do with PPS pro, since I'm basically dosing the same, if not a little less, than I was before by just measuring and pouring. Since the Fe and PO4 are within acceptable limits, I don't think that I will adjust the dosing amount yet. I have been having a pretty bad issue with BBA, but it has been dying off for several months now. When it dies it lets go of whatever it is attached to and then gets sucked into the filters. I haven't cleaned the filters since June (and when I did they had huge amounts of decomposing BBA in them), so I'm hoping that the elevated levels of NO3 are just from dirty filters. Once I clean them and do a water change I'll start checking the water parameters more often so I can see if the dosing amounts need to be changed.

Your last question will be more difficult for me to answer. I haven't been able to find specifications that say exactly how much head height this pump is capable of. However, when trying to decide between an enteral feeding pump and an infusion pump, I just used my own logic to decide that an infusion pump would be better (which very well might be all wrong). For instance, I saw this thread for automatically dosing a reef tank: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/59525-automatic-continuous-feeder-diy.html . It got me really excited about trying something like this, but the more I looked into enteral feeding pumps, the less that I thought that they would work. For instance, most of them are only able to go down to 1 mL per hour. The EnteraLite Infinity pumps that SantaMonica used for his reef tank are able to go down to .1 mL per hour, but they are expensive. In fact, I watched some on eBay for weeks hoping to get a good deal, only to see that they always go for way more than I was willing to spend. I just checked completed listings for the last 30 days, and the cheapest one sold for $248.50, with one going up to $350.00! Since I needed two of this style pump, I abandoned it as an option. On top of that, even if it was cheaper, the instruction manual for that pump states that it maintains a +/- 5% accuracy, but only if the head height is +/- 12" from the center of the rotor. I was concerned that this would be a problem, since my pump is sitting in the bottom of my cabinet, and the tubing rises about 53" before the fluid drips out into the water.


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## Andy Ritter

Part 3:

SantaMonica had his pumps sitting on top of the tank. One thing going for him was that an enteral feeding pump is designed to pump thicker liquids, and since he is using it to feed corals, that was an advantage. I don't know a whole lot about what types of liquids an infusion pump would be normally used for, so I don't know if they are capable of pumping thick liquids or not (the instruction manual for my pump states that it can infuse "intravascular drugs, fluids, whole blood, and packed red blood cells"). My thought process was that an enteral feeding pump is just pumping a fluid into your stomach, but your stomach isn't trying to pump anything back out (my theory might be flawed, so those in the medical field, please don't yell at me). I figured that since an infusion pump is for pumping liquids into your blood stream, and that your heart is developing pressure too, that an infusion pump would be better since it is designed to work against that pressure. I don't know if the thick liquid/no pressure property is comparable to the thin liquid/backpressure one or not, but my theory was that an infusion pump would be best. In the three weeks that I have had it set up, I haven't had any problems at all. The pump has the ability to check for air in the hoses and for an occlusion (blockage), but it hasn't alarmed yet, and at this point, I doubt that it would. Every time that I have looked at the ends of the hoses where the fluid drips out, there is always a drop sitting there waiting to get big enough to fall, and I've watched them drip in (although I haven't timed how long it takes between drops, but it's quite awhile). I was somewhat concerned that I might end up with a crust forming at the ends of the hoses, but that hasn't been an issue (I don't have the hoses below the surface of the tank water because I don't want to siphon out the tank water in the event of a hose failure). Besides, I think that the pump would be able to develop enough pressure to push it off anyway. 

I hope that this information has helped you. I have communicated with the company that I bought my infusion pump from, and they said that they have many more of them. It is possible that they might be able to work out a deal for others from APC, but I can't promise that. Even so, there is another eBay seller that has 50 available using Buy It Now for about $85 including shipping. There is also someone with a couple of cases of the infusion sets that we could possibly buy and then distribute to each other. I am still using the first pair of tubing sets, and my plan is to continue to use them until they develop a leak, just so I can see how often they should be replaced. 

It took me several hours to compose this reply, so I’m going to post it in the thread as well in case others might benefit from the information. I’m subscribed to the thread with instant email notification, so I’ll see if you post any more questions on the original thread. That way we might can get more discussion going.

Andy


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## intermediate_noob

Thanks so much for putting this up, I think that it is a great idea for DIY! Another quick question, did you say that you only need one pump for both of your PPS-Pro solutions so that 85 dollars would all that it would take (besides the infusion tubing sets)?

Let me know about this, and if you could post links to the eBay seller and the infusion sets I would appreciate it.


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## Andy Ritter

No problem about the post (except for my wife griping about how long I spent on the computer, but she'll get over it), I'm glad to help.

The pump that I use is the imed Gemini PC-2TX. It has two separately controlled pumps built into one unit. There is also a PC-1, which is an older version with one pump, a PC-2, which is also an older version with two pumps, and a PC-4, which is an older version with four pumps. All of them use the same tubing sets.

I did a quick eBay search using the keyword "Gemini PC*", and found a bunch for sale. In fact, I found some for much cheaper than what I mentioned before. There is one PC-2TX like what I have with an opening bid of $15.50 that hasn't even been bid on yet. In fact, it is being offered by the same company that I got mine from. They charged me $29.66 for shipping, but you better hurry because it ends Monday morning. You can see it here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Imed-Gemini-PC-2TX-Infusion-Pump_W0QQitemZ190329125041QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c507ff8b1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Here are some others, including the one that I mentioned before:

http://cgi.ebay.com/IMED-GEMINI-PC-2TX-VOLUMETRIC-INFUSION-PUMPPERISTALTIC_W0QQitemZ260459088106QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca49248ea&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

http://cgi.ebay.com/Imed-Gemini-PC-2TX-IV-Infusion-Pump_W0QQitemZ220385787340QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3350043dcc&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

Keep in mind that buying anything on eBay can turn out to be a bad deal in the long run. These are older pumps that were probably used in the mid-nineties and up. When mine arrived it displayed an error message, and the seller said that he would take it back for exchange, but that I would be responsible for paying the shipping. I decided before I spent that money I would open it up and see if there was something that I could do to fix it. I unplugged some of the connectors and then plugged them back in and it started working just fine, so I decided to keep it instead. It appears to me to be really well made, which I imagine is why they cost thousands of dollars when they are brand new. The company that I bought the tubing sets from was Novatek Medical (phone # 217-347-1011), and they said that they service this pump if I ever have any problems with it. As cheap as they are on eBay, I would consider just buying another one if it dies, but I'll figure that out later. Hopefully it will last a long time without any issues. The tubing sets that I bought are from Alaris and the number on them is REF 2260-0500, and they cost me $42.75 for four of them with shipping.

The tubing sets listed on eBay can be found here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370192616480&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

The reason that I didn't buy them is that I didn't want to spend that much money for a case of twenty if this experiment ends up not working out. Plus, I don't know how often I'm going to have to change out the tubing sets yet anyway. It might make sense to get a case eventually, but I still don't know.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Andy


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## Andy Ritter

I noticed on eBay that two of the pumps that I gave links to sold within a few days of my last post. I am so curious as to whether someone that read this thread bought them. 

My pump is working beautifully so far. I bought some graduated cylinders and started using them this week and am thrilled at how accurate the dosing appears to be (I guess that I'm just anal like that).

If anyone needs any more assistance then I'd be glad to help out. I have the instructions in the form of a pdf if anyone needs them. 

Andy


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## Andy Ritter

It's been over two months now since I set up my infusion pump, and it has been working beautifully ever since (knock on wood). I love not having to worry about fertilizing the tank, plus whether it actually helps or not, I like the idea of stability. The tubing sets seem to be holding up great. I'm just going to wait to see how long it takes for one to fail before I replace them. 

Another thing that I have been very happy with is that now when I test the water, I feel more comfortable that the readings that I'm getting are actually related to the amount of fertilizer going into the tank, as opposed to me making a slight mistake on measuring, or not getting to fertilize because I was away from home, etc. This has allowed me to tweak the PPS pro amounts to account for differences with my tank.

Just thought someone might be interested in how things are going.

Andy


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## intermediate_noob

Thank you very much for giving us an update! I have been saving money to try to get one of these but now am needing to deal with aggression issues in a tank so I may need to purchase fish (large school of dither fish). I will keep these in mind.

How did you find the name of a company that sold the tubing sets again? Just called around?


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## Andy Ritter

No problem. Glad to see someone is still paying attention.

I tried calling around, but didn't have any luck. The company that I bought the pump from on eBay actually suggested a company to call, which is the one listed in post #32 (Novatek Medical, phone # 217-347-1011). They were very understanding, so I think if you explain what you need them for, they should sell them to you no problem. Everyone else that I talked to said that I would need some kind of license to buy them (that is if they even sold the kind that I needed).

Andy


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## intermediate_noob

Thanks for letting me know. I hope that I can get one of these soon.


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## Zapins

Hmm, I need to read all the posts up until now. But I wanted to thank you for doing the research into where to buy these pumps at reasonable prices. In the past I have found it difficult to find pumps in the 40-50$ range, and so I haven't been able to afford automated dosing like this. 

I'll need to read over everything carefully later and check out the links, but thanks again.


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## Andy Ritter

Hey Zapins,

I'm not sure if you were talking to me or to the OP (In retrospect, I'm thinking that maybe I should have started a new thread; didn't mean to hijack). If you were talking to me, then no problem. When I first set this up, I was so excited about it and thought that everyone else would be, too. However, after spending the time to make the posts, I was actually pretty amazed that not very many people found it interesting. I'm just glad that I can help, since I've been able to get so much help from others here on APC.

I can't say enough how happy I am with how this set up is working (knock on wood, or it will screw up tomorrow). Granted, it is still technically an experiment in the works, but it has been working flawlessly 24/7 since the first of August. It hasn't given me a single problem. I keep expecting to find a tubing set split (from what I understand, in a hospital they would be replaced every day), but they're still holding up great. I am using the graduated cylinders so I can keep track of how accurate the pumps are, and they have both been doing great. At most, over a weeks time the cylinders might have 2 mL less in them versus what the screen says they should have. For all I know, I could be getting that much evaporation. I can't hardly manually measure one days dose that accurate without a lot of effort. I've also been experimenting with the PPS pro recipes and dosage amounts, and it sure is nice to know that all I have to do is punch a few buttons and forget about it.

I have gotten a PM about location of the equipment, so here are some pictures.

The entire aquarium, stand, and hood, with the doors open on the stand and hood:








The infusion pump and graduated cylinders in the bottom of the stand:








One of the hoses (in this case the macro one) for dripping in the ferts (the other one is just like it, but on the other end of the tank):








The spare tubing sets:








I cut the drip chambers off and still had plenty of hose length left to make it to the top of the aquarium. I actually am using one of the drip chambers now as a bubble counter for my CO2 system. The one that came with the system broke, and while trying to figure out what to do about it, got the bright idea that one of these drip chambers looks a lot like a bubble counter. So far it is working great, but I'm not sure what effect the CO2 will have on it long term.

I was going to attach a PDF of the instruction manual for the infusion pump, but it is almost 4 MB. If anyone needs it I guess I could try to email it to you (unless someone knows a way around the file size limit).

If any more information is needed, I would be happy to help.

Andy


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## plamski

Hi. I’m amazed too. There is so little interest to that great and cheap DIY dozer.
Do I need separate timer to run the unit or everything is all in one?
I’ll call tomorrow to Novatek Medical to see can they sell me some tubing sets.
P.S. What is the white control box with green LCD over the dozer?


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## f1ea

Hi Andy,

Thanks for all your research and well documented explanation of your dosing system...

I've been giving a bit of thought this week to an automated dosing scheme and i find yours quite interesting. The best thing about these infusion pumps is that they work and adjust to a set and measured discharge, so you dont really have to calibrate the flow (which is the most important part). 

I have 2 questions:

1) Are your pumps injecting the solution constantly (at a rate of 0.6 ml/hr as you mentioned earlier)? or are you connected to a timer to dose at said rate for a period of the day?

2) Are you mixing (or can you mix) your Macros with Excel in the same solution??


Regards!


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## plamski

Hi .I did call to 4 different suppliers but nobody have c valve 2y tubing.:noidea:
:Cry:


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## Andy Ritter

Hello again guys. Wow, all of a sudden there are a lot of questions. Let me see what I can do for answers.



> Do I need separate timer to run the unit or everything is all in one?


No. In fact, plugging this unit into a timer wouldn't do you any good since it has a battery back-up for power outages, and it would keep on going. You simply program it with the amount you want to infuse and the rate that you want it infused, and then it runs until it completes the program.



> Are your pumps injecting the solution constantly (at a rate of 0.6 ml/hr as you mentioned earlier)? or are you connected to a timer to dose at said rate for a period of the day?


I have my fertilizers going into the tank 24/7 (I actually mentioned this earlier in the thread). The pumps haven't stopped infusing since back in August. The way I do it is I fill the graduated cylinders up with the solutions that I want to infuse to a predetermined amount. I then program the pumps to infuse that much fertilizer and also select the rate. Each pump can be programed individually, with completely different settings if you choose. For instance, this week I dropped my rate for the micro ferts down to .2 mL per hour. I am still running the macro ferts at .6 mL per hour. Since the micros are going in slower, it will take a lot longer before I have to refill the cylinder. If I notice that one of the cylinders is getting low on fluid, I put however much that I want to put in it, say 300 mL, and then program the unit to infuse 300 mL. As the pump infuses, the screen on the front tells you how much is left to be infused. So several days later the pump will probably say something like 256.3 mL to be infused, at which point I can check the cylinder to see if there is actually somewhere around that much left in it. If so, then that lets me know that the pump has been doing it's job accurately.



> Are you mixing (or can you mix) your Macros with Excel in the same solution??


I don't use Excel, but I can't see any reason at all why you couldn't mix anything you want into the solutions to be dosed. It would just be a matter of making sure that the things that you mix together won't have any type of reaction with each other, and you'll just have to calculate at what ratio they need to be mixed in order to get the desired dosing. Keep in mind that I mentioned that there is also a PC-4, which has four pumps in one unit, which would allow you to dose four different fluids at totally different rates. Or you could get multiple PC-1 units, which only have one pump each, and set each one individually. I found that the PC-2TX made the most sense for me from a cost stand point since I wanted to dose two different fluids that aren't supposed to be mixed together, and it was cheaper than buying two PC-1 units. If you wanted to, I guess that you could get the PC-4, and use one pump for macros, one for micros, one for Excel, and the other for plain water to account for evaporation (but I imagine you would have to have a pretty good sized container to hold enough water to account for a long period of time). Just a thought.



> Hi .I did call to 4 different suppliers but nobody have c valve 2y tubing.


Why did you call 4 different suppliers? I gave you the phone number for Novatek Medical earlier (phone # 217-347-1011). I just called them myself and they said that they had the sets in stock. The guy I talked to suggested that I have you specifically ask for him since he already knows what's going on. Ask for Philip at extension 22, and be sure and tell him that you are going to use them for aquarium use.



> P.S. What is the white control box with green LCD over the dozer?


Funny that you would notice that. It is actually a small computer case that I bought from an electronics surplus warehouse. I bought it mainly for the power supply and as a place to put the transformer for my heating cables. I use the power supply to run all of my cooling fans for both the water and the lights. The 13 volt transformer is also mounted in there. The LCD that you see is an electronic thermostat that I bought from Radio Shack that I was going to wire up to a solid state relay for turning the transformer on and off. My wife has a cousin that is an electrical/computer engineer that was going to help me with the logic controls for that part of the project, but he can never seem to find the time to help me out. However, I have since discovered that I can run the transformer 24/7 and not increase the tank temperature enough to be a problem anyway, so I'm not too worried about it. I would like to be able to use the electronic thermometer feature of it though, so maybe one of these days I'll get back to it. I've even thought about how it would be good to use it to turn the fans on and off based on tank temperature. If I can ever get any electronics help then maybe I'll finish that part.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

Andy


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## plamski

Hello Andy. Thanks for all answers. I did call first to the Novatek Medical earlier and spoke with 2 different sells persons -both of them told me that they don't have tubing on hand. I have been transferred 7-10 times to another supplies but no luck. Monday I'll call Philip. 
Personally I don't like to have infusing 24/7 because if something get wrong you'll dump all ferts in the tank at once. For me is more safe to have unit running for 10-20 min or so.
Here is 
http://www.electronics123.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2117/.f?sc=8&category=36
Thermo sensor which you can use to turn ON and OFF fens it is rated 3A. I'll use it for my DIY chiller project. They are $8 unassembled and $18 assembled. If you are interested I can give you some info and pics.


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## Andy Ritter

plamski said:


> Personally I don't like to have infusing 24/7 because if something get wrong you'll dump all ferts in the tank at once. For me is more safe to have unit running for 10-20 min or so.


Hello again,

First of all, don't take this the wrong way, but just let me explain how I look at this situation.

One option involves using a medical pump that is designed to be used on humans. Worst case scenario if something goes wrong is a human dies and then their family sues for millions. Therefore, lots of engineering goes into the unit and they cost $3,000-$4,000 to buy.

The second option involves using a light timer that you can buy for $10-$20 that is designed to turn a lamp on and off. Worst case scenario is either the lamp doesn't come on, or it stays on.

When I look at these two options, I feel a lot more comfortable using the medical pump. My guess is that the timer would be much more likely to fail and dose the tank with too much fertilizer. Could the medical pump fail - of course it could. Am I worried that it may - absolutely not.

If you really think about it, I could easily come home from work and find that one of the intake hoses for a canister filter has come off and caused the entire tank to siphon out onto the floor. Is it likely that will happen - no. Am I going to use internal filters to eliminately the possibility that it could happen - absolutely not.

In all reality, it doesn't really matter to me how anyone else chooses to set up their aquarium, so don't think that I'm trying to convince you to do it a certain way. This is just my opinion - nothing else.

Oh, and thanks for the info on the thermostat. However, I already have the thermostat, but just need to have some help on wiring it up. It is a really long story and probably should be put in a whole new thread rather than here. Maybe one of these days I will ask for some help on another DIY thread. Surely there are some electrical or computer engineers here on APC. Thanks anyway.

Andy


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## tanksalot

Andy:

Neil Frank gave me a link to this thread, and I found it exceptionally interesting! I've been modifying and selling enteral pumps for over 8 years at both innovativeaquatics.com and reefdosingpumps.com. I've also encountered similar apathy in the planted-aquarium world for automated dosing, and have no clue why. Reefkeepers are essentially forced into dosing systems for fresh water makeup, as well as many use them for calcium/alkalinity liquid addition. Thanks to your thread I've purchased one of the Gemini pumps, and will be looking into its' applicability to reef aquariums. I'll also call Novatek on Monday.

Hopefully your Gemini setup is still working as well as it has been. Are there any performance aspects of the pump that you DON'T like? My web sites feature feeding pumps that have undergone extensive electronic modifications to eliminate out-of-liquid alarms and provide timer compatibility, which for some reef applications are very advantageous, and I guess if the Gemini is terrific as-is I'll miss the challenge of putting in my "technical touch".

Thanks again for a very informative thread.

Stan F.


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## Andy Ritter

Hello Stan,

I'm glad you enjoyed the thread.

I actually am familiar with your web sites. That's because when I was researching how to automate the fertilizing for my aquarium, I found them while performing my searches. However, just like all of the other options that target aquariums, your products were out of my price range. I didn't feel that spending $239-$379 for basically modified Kangaroo 324 enteral feeding pumps made any more sense than the $200-$270 for an Aqua Medic one did.

My Gemini is still working beautifully, and I am still very happy with its performance. I have no problems with it at all. I don't know very much about reef aquariums (although I love SCUBA diving and see the real thing in person as much as possible), so I don't really know why someone would want to eliminate the out-of-liquid alarm, nor do I understand why you would want to control it with a timer. It seems to me that having an alarm to warn you that the pump is out of fluid would be a good thing, although I have never let my reservoirs run empty to test mine out. Also, I mentioned several times that one of the main reasons why I wanted to automate my fertilization was to have stability in the aquarium. I don't want the nutrient levels constantly going up, then back down again as the plants use them. In my opinion, the Gemini doesn't need any modification and works great just the way that it is. In fact, since mine can dose two different fluids at two totally different rates, I feel that mine is actually better than yours.

The only reason that I posted all of this information was that I was trying to help out fellow hobbyists. I felt that if someone else had done something like this then I would have liked to have known about it. I feel that far too many companies charge far too much money for products that we could easily buy/make/do ourselves for less, but are too scared to because of ignorance. Take prepackaged liquid fertilizers for instance. I couldn't tell you how much money I spent on the various different brands of "Aquarium Plant Fertilizer" when in all reality I was just buying water with small amounts of ingredients added to them that I could buy myself for much less money and mix it up myself. Thanks to sites such as APC, I was able to learn this and affordably stay in this hobby. I'm amazed each day how often I'll read a posting from someone that insists that they can't/won't buy some of the cheapest items that would help them with their aquarium (test kits, electronic gram scales, etc.). If they don't even have the $10-$50 to spend for those items, do you really think they are going to buy one of your altered feeding pumps? I felt that by showing everyone that there was an affordable alternative to fertilization automation, that more people would be able to enjoy the hobby like I am.

On one hand, I wish that you hadn't been introduced to this thread. I have a fear that you will now buy up all of the available infusion pumps and start selling them on your web sites for a ridiculous markup, which will completely defeat the purpose of why I posted this info in the first place. However, I realize that this is a free country, and it is your right to do that if you so choose. In fact, I guess that I could go out and buy them all up myself, slap a new sticker over the brand name and call it a "Planted Aquarium Fertilizer Doser", and make a bunch of money for me instead. However, I'm not going to do that, and I hope that you won't either. I realize that one negative to that is that occasionally I would buy one that was broken, so I would have to have some mark-up in order to absorb those losses, not to mention the cost involved with making the ones good that go bad during the warranty period. I took a chance buying one off of eBay that it might not be any good, but the price was right so I didn't mind that at all (especially considering that I could have bought about five of them for the same amount of money as one of yours, and then I would have had a lot of spare parts).

To everyone else out there, let's hope that Stan (or others like him) doesn't ruin a good thing for our hobby.

Andy


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## Noxtreme

i'm about to set a single on of these up and use PMDD method. Maybe 2 so i dose tropica too. well see.


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## Andy Ritter

Hello all,

I want to update everyone on how my infusion pump experiment is going.

Over the last month or so I've noticed that the pump that infuses my macro ferts has not been as accurate as it had been. After running for about two weeks, the pump display will read that it has approximately 8-10 ml less to infuse than what is actually still in the graduated cylinder. In other words, the pump isn't dosing as much as I have programmed it for, even though it thinks that it has. This pump is infusing at a rate of .6 ml per hour. At first I suspected that maybe the tubing was getting stretched out and was causing the inaccuracy, but I changed to a new tubing set and the problem is still present. The micro pump is dosing at .1 ml per hour and isn't having this inaccuracy problem. I'm not worried about the inaccuracy, since the pump is still dosing much more accurately than I ever could if I was having to measure every day and dump the fertilizers in, but I just wanted to let everyone know in case you were curious. As long as the pump continues as it is, I don't plan on doing anything else to try and correct it. I'll keep you updated if I do.

Also, I wanted to point out that Neil Frank (nfrank) told me about an awesome deal on eBay for tubing sets. There is a seller that has expired sets for only about $50 for a box of twenty. Neil and I both bought some and they are good sets for an excellent price. The seller has them listed with a "Make Offer" option, so you might can get them for even cheaper. You can check them out here.

Andy


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## plamski

I have one running for 3 months now and 3 weeks ago I mention the same thing. I didn't switch them to see result but just lower the rate in order to have the same amount infused of both liquids. My rate is 1.7ml/h Yesterday I put one 4 channel pump $39 shipped from eBuy in my 2 new tanks. Nobody can beat the price and quality of this pumps.
Thanks for your input, Andy.


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## mids1999

If anyone is interested, I have a box of 20 sets, that fit the PC-2TX and other Gemini, listed for sale in the trade/sale forum.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/sale-trade/69722-fs-20x-alaris-0222-500-sets.html

I bought them for use with my dosing pump an Alaris 7230, then learned from Andy, that they will not fit my pump.


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## jpmtotoro

i can't believe this thread is still going strong after so long! seems there's a lot of interest in auto dosing, assuming the price would come down for the components.

oh well... system is still humming along nicely with no problems, and my table lamp timers haven't failed me yet ;-)

only thing i've noticed is Flourish will start to crystalize at the tip after a while. the fix is... once a month, i shove a pin in there and clear it out. done!


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## BobasEB

I 'm going same way with Imed Gemini PC2TX pumps.
I found good and inexpensive supplier.
Let me know if anyone is interested in getting some of these pumps.
By fall (maybe sooner) I will have all the equipment collected then I will star the journal for my new tank.


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## Andy Ritter

The following is a private message that I received that I thought that others could benefit from viewing:



Andy Ritter said:


> xJaypex said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey just interested in your auto dosing system. I found the same model of the pump you have but was wondering as to where to buy the tubing set? How often have you replaced yours? Is it required and why cant i use the regular airline tube that are sold everywhere?
> 
> Appreciate the help.
> 
> 
> 
> I mentioned in several different places in the thread where to buy the tubing sets. Check out this post. However, I was able to get some from a seller on eBay where I was able to buy a box of twenty sets for about $40. Unfortunately, those deals come and go, so you have to keep checking all the time until you find a good deal. You have to use the proprietary sets. They are specifically made to go in these pumps, and I wouldn't waste my time trying to rig up something else. I pride myself on being really good at rigging up things myself to make them work, but I can tell you with confidence that it wouldn't be worth it to try and make something in this situation. Just buy the tubing sets and save yourself the time, because you will just be wasting it if you try and make something else work. They will last a really long time, so the expense isn't that much. I just changed the one for my micros for the first time the other day as a preventative measure. However, I saw nothing wrong with it and who knows how long it could have gone for (it had been in use for almost a year).
> 
> As I've mentioned before, I love this pump and am so glad that I bought it. Lately I've been mixing up enough fertilizer for over a month of dosing. The stability of the tank is so much better, and I can go out of town and not have to worry about it at all.
> 
> Good luck with your decision.
> 
> Andy
Click to expand...


----------



## bigstick120

Im going to have to try this.

I have a ?
Do these have to run constantly? Or can I set it up to do 5ml in an hour and then shut off and do the same every day at the same time?


----------



## Andy Ritter

bigstick120 said:


> Im going to have to try this.
> 
> I have a ?
> Do these have to run constantly? Or can I set it up to do 5ml in an hour and then shut off and do the same every day at the same time?


I believe this post answers your question.

Andy


----------



## bigstick120

Andy or anyone else that has this setup, do you have any more photos? Id like to see how the tubing connects.


----------



## Zapins

Me too.


----------



## mids1999

The best way that I could describe the way the tubing connects would be to say to think of a cartridge system. It just snaps into place.

If no one else posts first, I will post a photo of how my sets connect tomorrow when I get my camera back.

I use an Alaris SE pump, but the connection would be similar.


----------



## Andy Ritter

bigstick120 said:


> Andy or anyone else that has this setup, do you have any more photos? Id like to see how the tubing connects.


See if this helps:









Andy


----------



## csf

2 or 3 is usually good for most planted tankers, but it you want to get tricky with 6, I'm all for it!

I'm on 2 currently. Trace and phosphate in one, nitrogen and potassium in the other. Ca/Mg are weekly on the water change.


----------



## bigstick120

You dont want your trace and phosphate mixed together. Put it in with the N, and K.


----------



## bbehring

Interesting thread! I'm looking at the units on Ebay and most of the sellers indicate you have to be certified by the FDA to buy from them? Is this just something they have to put in their ad, or are they serious about the required #?


----------



## bigstick120

I bought a 4 pump unit. Now the problem Im having is that I cant get it programed to dose every 24 hrs. Im trying to get it to dose 3 ml per day at 1030, then shut off. I got it to work then I get the message that its complete and wont run again the following day. Anyone have any input into this? Im using the multidose menu to do this.


----------



## Andy Ritter

bigstick120 said:


> I bought a 4 pump unit. Now the problem Im having is that I cant get it programed to dose every 24 hrs. Im trying to get it to dose 3 ml per day at 1030, then shut off. I got it to work then I get the message that its complete and wont run again the following day. Anyone have any input into this? Im using the multidose menu to do this.


If you go back and look at the very first post of mine, you'll notice that I gave a link to a site that has information about these pumps. On that site is a link to a "PDF - OPERATORS MANUAL". On page 2 of that manual, it reads "Multidosing - allows the user to pre-program 1-24 infusions with the same rate and volume to be infused (VTBI) over a 1-24 hour period." On page 72 in the section explaining Alarm Responses, it explains that if you receive a Prompt on the screen that reads "24 Hour Limit Exceeded", then that means that "A combination of Time Interval and Number of Doses that would exceed the maximum allowable 24 hour Multidose infusion was entered", which means that you must then "Reenter an appropriate combination of Time Interval and Number of Doses to result in a total duration of 24 hours or less." I've never tried to use the Multidose infusion feature, but based on what I have read in the Operators Manual, it appears to me that what you are experiencing is normal. In other words, I don't think that it is designed to do that.

My question to you is, why are you trying to do it this way? I already explained in great detail why I choose to infuse 24/7, and it works without any problems at all. Simply divide your desired dose by 24 hours and set the rate per hour to that amount. You might have to dilute your solutions with water in order to tweak the amounts some, but that is very easy to do. I'm currently mixing my macros with twice the amount of water, and my micros with four times the amount of water. My pump has now been going for over a year with no signs of quitting.

Good luck figuring yours out.

Andy


----------



## pat w

Gemini tube set, group buy offered Here.

Pat


----------



## chasintrades

I just bought a lot of 3 Gemini-PC 4s 

$150 for all for 3 of them. I am very excited. Thanks for the this thread Andy. I am sure I am going to have a ton of questions since when I look at the photo of this item it is already over my head!! 

Thank you in advance for a wealth of info and supporting the hobby!

Ari


----------



## Andy Ritter

chasintrades said:


> I just bought a lot of 3 Gemini-PC 4s
> 
> $150 for all for 3 of them. I am very excited. Thanks for the this thread Andy. I am sure I am going to have a ton of questions since when I look at the photo of this item it is already over my head!!
> 
> Thank you in advance for a wealth of info and supporting the hobby!
> 
> Ari


Hello Ari,

I'm glad that you found this thread helpful. I hope that you enjoy the freedom that comes with automatically dosing your aquarium as much as I do.

I would be glad to answer any questions that you may have once you get started. My only request is that you please read the whole thread first, since most of the questions that I've been asked have already been answered multiple times. I'm a High School teacher, so I get pretty irritated when I have to answer the same question over and over again.

Andy


----------



## nfrank

Has anyone using the Gemini had problems with precipitates causing the tubes to clog, suck air, make the warning alarm to go off. Very annoying. 

I have two Gemini PC-2's and had them working for a few months until i decomissioned them in June.... have been too busy to post on APC until now.

The separate macro and micro mixtures in 1.5 L that I had been using on the 180gal setup(dosed at 3ml/hr) were

KNO3: 65g (23t) 
KH2PO4: 6.5g (7t)

CSM+B : 15.6g (4t)
10% Fe DPTA (1.1t)

I added ~30ml of Muriatic acid to control mold. This concentration was designed to last 3 weeks. I also tried 3L, at 6ml/hr. I dont recall if i tried it without the HCl.

Any thoughts?


----------



## bigstick120

I get that as well. I just clean them off every water change and it seems to have solved the problem. I couldnt figure out why I was getting the air in line message. The output nipple was gummed/clogged up at the tip.


----------



## Andy Ritter

nfrank said:


> Has anyone using the Gemini had problems with precipitates causing the tubes to clog, suck air, make the warning alarm to go off. Very annoying.
> 
> I have two Gemini PC-2's and had them working for a few months until i decomissioned them in June.... have been too busy to post on APC until now.
> 
> The separate macro and micro mixtures in 1.5 L that I had been using on the 180gal setup(dosed at 3ml/hr) were
> 
> KNO3: 65g (23t)
> KH2PO4: 6.5g (7t)
> 
> CSM+B : 15.6g (4t)
> 10% Fe DPTA (1.1t)
> 
> I added ~30ml of Muriatic acid to control mold. This concentration was designed to last 3 weeks. I also tried 3L, at 6ml/hr. I dont recall if i tried it without the HCl.
> 
> Any thoughts?


I'm sorry that you've had issues, Neil. I have never had issues with precipitates clogging up the tubes on mine. Every once in awhile (probably every couple of months) I'll knock off some crust from the ends of the tubes, but not because it was causing a problem, but just because it doesn't look good.

You may have been following along on this thread where I have been experimenting with my PPS pro recipe. I usually only mix up 500 ml or less at a time in order to allow me to tweak the recipe for the next time if necessary, but I can tell you what my concentrations are currently compared to yours.

If mixed in 1.5 liters of water, my macros would have about:

11.2 grams KNO3
10.2 grams K2SO4
11.3 grams KH2PO4
7.1 grams MgSO4
1.5 ml Methylene Blue for fungus prevention

This solution is then dosed at .6 ml per hour into a 75 gallon tank.

As you can see, my recipe is mixed considerably weaker than yours, so less precipitate would be expected.

However, I started out using the PPS Pro regular recipe, but mixed at 1/2 strength, which if mixed in 1.5 liters of water would have:

48.8 grams KNO3
44.3 grams K2SO4
4.5 grams KH2PO4
30.8 grams MgSO4

I never had any issues with precipitates with this recipe either. You said that you tried mixing in 3 liters of water, in which case your recipe would be weaker than this, yet you still had precipitates.

As far as my micros, if mixed in 1.5 liters of water, they would have about:

30 grams CSM+B
1.5 ml Methylene Blue for fungus prevention

This solution is then dosed at .2 ml per hour into a 75 gallon tank.

As you can see, my recipe is about twice as strong as yours (but still only 1/4 strength compared to the PPS Pro recipe).

I'm not sure what to tell you. I have my tubes pointing straight down right above the full water mark of the tank (there are actually some pictures here). I would guess that you have yours dosing into your sump. I don't know if that makes a difference or not.

As far as the alarms go, I finally got an "Air In Line" warning this week, but only because I've been so busy that I goofed up and let the graduated cylinder run out. There wasn't anything wrong; it was just doing it's job.

I sure hope that you're able to get it straightened out.

Andy


----------



## nfrank

bigstick120 said:


> I get that as well. I just clean them off every water change and it seems to have solved the problem. I couldnt figure out why I was getting the air in line message. The output nipple was gummed/clogged up at the tip.


As Andy mentioned, i have a sump. The end of my tubing is inserted directly into the water. When you say nipple what do you mean. I just have the end of the tubing cut off.

Three things i can think of that might be different among our setups, but not sure if it would make the difference.[ I have a feeling it is something very basic that i am doing wrong.]
1) I am not pumping vertically very far. However, seems like this would be easier on the pump.
2) My tubing set has injection ports. Could they be allowing air to leak in? This is the TUBING
3) The HCL may be reacting causing precipitate to clog.

BTW, I first used tap water, then switched to distilled water (from grocery store). Even with distilled, i had the air lin line problem. Regarding precipitate, i also have it at the bottom of the solution container which says 'something' is reacting with the solution. 

BIGSTICK: Did you figure out how to conveniently inject once per day. Faster flow might prevent air in line.


----------



## Andy Ritter

Hello again Neil,

As you probably saw from the pictures of my set up, I don't cut off the ends of my tubing. I don't know if that would make a difference or not. Also, I'm using the exact same tubing that you are, and I'm not having any issues with air in the lines, so I don't think that you need to worry about that. 

When I first set mine up, I thought about whether I should let the tubing come in contact with the tank water, and ultimately decided that I didn't think that it should. My thinking was that I didn't want anything that was in the tank water to leach it's way back up through the solution in the tubing and contaminate it. When I first mixed up PPS Pro, I didn't use the Methylene Blue because no one had mentioned in the instructions that you needed to add any fungicide. The result was a lot of fungus of some sort that I ended up having to filter out of my mixture, and then go back and add the Methylene Blue to stop it. I'm not a chemist/scientist, so I don't know what exactly allowed this stuff to grow. However, I figured that if it was able to grow so well in deionized water with these fertilizers mixed in, I was very concerned about what would happen if tank water was allowed to come in contact with it, considering who knows how many different types of other things (bacteria, other chemicals, etc) that might cause other problems. Because of this, my thought is it would be better not to let tank water come in contact with your solutions. 

I'm wondering if you might also be having an interaction issue between the macros and micros since you're saying that the tubes are both placed in the water in the sump. I've read two different thoughts on this topic, and I don't know which is true. One says that the KH2PO4 will interact with the Fe and cause Iron Phosphate to precipitate out of solution, and the other says it won't happen. I don't know if it will or not, because I haven't tried, but either way, maybe it would be better to not even have any chance of that happening. I would suggest raising the tubes up out of the water in the sump and just let the solutions drip into the water instead and see if the problem goes away.

As far as the question of fast flow versus slow flow, I agree that faster would seem to cut down on precipitates, but mine are flowing way slower than yours, and I'm not having any issues.

Andy


----------



## bigstick120

Neil, I dont cut the ends off my tubing, I used pliers and removed the screw down looking part. I get the crust on mine. Removing it weekly or when I notice a build up seed to solve it. Im using pretty close to the PPS pro solution, I add more PO4 and WAY less MG. Mix at half strength.


----------



## nfrank

bigstick120 said:


> Neil, I dont cut the ends off my tubing, I used pliers and removed the screw down looking part. .


One end of my tubing set has the gizzmo that is designed to puncture a hanging bag and has a drip checker. The other end has the thing that is meant to screw into something. There is a check valve, so the fluid can only move one way.

Which are the parts that you guys leave, and why?

I like Andy's suggestion that it is better to not have contact between the tank water and the fluid; that 'might' cause tank water to move up the tubing thru capillary action and potentially create an Fe + PO4 reaction (-->precipitate).

When my wife is not around for a few days, i may try it again. It is not fun to hear the alarm go off at night.  
This time without muriatic acid. "The perfect may be the enemy of the good." 
To eliminate variables, it would also be good to get a new tubing set. I am using the sets that I bought on ebay.


----------



## bigstick120

I cut off the bubble counter/drip counter thing, if I could find a container that I could use it I would. I left the other end on, but I did pull off the bolt looking part of it. Ill take some pics if that helps.


----------



## pat w

nfrank said:


> One end of my tubing set has the gizzmo that is designed to puncture a hanging bag and has a drip checker. The other end has the thing that is meant to screw into something. There is a check valve, so the fluid can only move one way.
> 
> Which are the parts that you guys leave, and why?
> 
> I like Andy's suggestion that it is better to not have contact between the tank water and the fluid; that 'might' cause tank water to move up the tubing thru capillary action and potentially create an Fe + PO4 reaction (-->precipitate).
> 
> When my wife is not around for a few days, i may try it again. It is not fun to hear the alarm go off at night.
> This time without muriatic acid. "The perfect may be the enemy of the good."
> To eliminate variables, it would also be good to get a new tubing set. I am using the sets that I bought on ebay.


I leave the tube set intact. The bag lance fits nicely into larger ID airline and flows just fine as does the delivery end . I run the airline from the bag lance to 1/8" ID rigid tube that fits down into the 2L soft drink bottle I use as a stock bottle. I run the tube through a hole drilled into it just below the cap. This will allow me to refill without touching the feed path. I then take the airline from the delivery end to a piece of rigid 1/8" ID tube I bent into a J shape that fits over the edge of the tank. I hang the drop check tube next to the pump which is mounted onto a piece of 1" dowel stock slightly flattened on one side and attached to the inside of one of the doors of the stand cabinet. It makes it very accessable when the door is open and leaves plenty of room for the tube set to clear the bottom of the unit.

As for the noise WHEN the alarm goes off. I just put an earplug (the foam kind you roll between your fingers before inserting in the ear) in the hole in the back where the alarm speaker is. You can still hear it. It just isn't as distracting.

Pat


----------



## chasintrades

Well if there was a ton of interest...

This lot comes out to about $18 each... (23 good and 3 bad)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Imed-Gemini-PC2...642?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3361a988c2


----------



## bamboosharkbark

I was surprised by the direction that this thread took, in a positive way! Great work Andy, thank you very much indeed, you're quite a stand-up guy!


----------



## bamboosharkbark

hey everyone, Ive been able to locate many offers on ebay for the gemini PC-2TX pump but have not found any tubing compatible with this pump. If anyone has any they may be willing to sell me or knows where to find them please post.
Also to Ritter: Do you still order the tubing from the supplier whose number you posted? Also how's the pump working for ya now?

kind regards,
Sven


----------



## Nocturnus

I really need to get something like this running, but I'll prob get the thing from Tom Aquatics. 

Now for doing dosing, I need to run some tests to see how the flow is from the pump so I can set a timer to run X amount of time to dose the required amount?


----------



## Andy Ritter

bamboosharkbark said:


> to Ritter: Do you still order the tubing from the supplier whose number you posted? Also how's the pump working for ya now?
> 
> kind regards,
> Sven


Hello Sven,

I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed the thread.

I haven't tried calling Novatek in a long time, so I don't know if they can still get the tubing sets or not. I lucked out (thanks to Neil Frank) and was able to buy some off of eBay, so I haven't had a need to get any more yet. I've actually only replaced my tubing sets once each in the last year and a half, and in all reality, it turned out that they didn't really need to be changed then. I suspect they will last a very long time without giving any problems. If Novatek can't get the sets anymore, you might want to try your local veterinary office. In many cases, they use the same types of medical equipment on animals as are used on people, so they could possible order the sets for you if you explained what you are going to use them for. I am a high school teacher, so I even asked the Health Occupations teacher (who is a certified nurse) if she could get them for me, and she said she could.

My Gemini infusion pump has been running non-stop, all day, every day (except for when I changed the tubing sets) since July of 2009. It has never had any problems (unless you count the time that I was lazy and let the supply of micros run out so the "Air in Line" warning went off, which of course was exactly what was supposed to happen), and I couldn't be any happier with its performance. It was worth every penny I spent on it not only because I haven't had to worry about dosing the tank manually anymore, but also because I personally feel that the tank is doing considerably better now that it is stable.

Good luck,

Andy


----------



## pat w

Been trying to help someone with a new(salvage) Gemini PC-2TX that goes into Maint. Mode on powerup.

found this (incomplete)http://www.biobidz.com/file_download.php?file_name=1305096351-Alaris++imed+Gemin+PC2TX+Part+1.pdf

Anyone have a complete copy?

Pat


----------



## Andy Ritter

pat w said:


> Been trying to help someone with a new(salvage) Gemini PC-2TX that goes into Maint. Mode on powerup.
> 
> found this (incomplete)http://www.biobidz.com/file_download.php?file_name=1305096351-Alaris++imed+Gemin+PC2TX+Part+1.pdf
> 
> Anyone have a complete copy?
> 
> Pat


Hey Pat,

First of all, I had no idea that it even had a "Maintenance Mode", and also didn't know about the manual. Thanks for letting me know about it.

I see what you mean about how it is incomplete, and I tried to find the missing information but with no success. I did find a website (www.bluebiomed.com) that listed the manual as Part 1, Part 2, & Part 3, but I was unsuccessful at downloading any of the parts from them. I had to register on their site (which was free) just to make an attempt to download the files, but all of them just gave me a pdf file that said the files were unavailable at this time.

I'll try more later to get the files, but I think I figured out what to do in Part 1 that you linked to above. If you'll look on page 1-4 of the Maintenance Manual (which is page 16 of the pdf), you should see some notes at the bottom just above a CAUTION statement. Note 2 gives instructions on how to access the Maintenance Mode: "All PC-2TX's have a Maintenance or Diagnostic Mode. To access this mode: hold in the Audio Control switch on the panel and then press Power On.keypress." Out of curiosity, I decided to see if I could get mine to go into this mode, but at first I couldn't figure out where this Audio Control switch was. It turns out it is on the back of the unit (which I hadn't seen in a couple of years since I placed it in the aquarium stand). I powered down the unit, then pushed in and held the Audio Control switch (big metal button/knob on the right if facing the back of the unit), then pushed the "POWER ON" button on the front of the unit. I don't know if it was necessary or not, but I held the Audio Control switch button in until the unit fully powered on and said "MAINTENANCE MODE" at the top of the screen. The screen had a menu with three choices "[1] S/C BOARD TESTS AND DISPLAYS [2] M/C BOARD TESTS AND DISPLAYS [3] PRESS [OFF] TO EXIT" I played around with the various different tests just to see what they did. In order to get out of a particular test, I had to push the "CANCEL" button in the lower left of the front panel. Once I was done, I pushed the "CHANNEL/OFF" button in the lower right and the unit powered off. I then turned it back on and reprogrammed my doses.

I'll let you know if I'm able to procure the rest of the manual.

Andy


----------



## bowlingo

Hi all,

I am in the process of designing an automatic hydroponics system that is controlled entirely by SMS controller. I have a controller with 8 inputs and 8 outputs and have everything set up/planned apart from an auto feeding system.

I am looking for an auto feeding device that will deliver 40ml of nutrients in one hit of which will be controlled vaa text message...It will need to have a tank containing the nutrients and upon activation it will deliver an exact amount.

Anyone anyone ideas?


----------



## pat w

Andy Ritter said:


> Hey Pat,
> 
> First of all, I had no idea that it even had a "Maintenance Mode", and also didn't know about the manual. Thanks for letting me know about it.
> 
> I see what you mean about how it is incomplete, and I tried to find the missing information but with no success. I did find a website (www.bluebiomed.com) that listed the manual as Part 1, Part 2, & Part 3, but I was unsuccessful at downloading any of the parts from them. I had to register on their site (which was free) just to make an attempt to download the files, but all of them just gave me a pdf file that said the files were unavailable at this time.
> 
> I'll try more later to get the files, but I think I figured out what to do in Part 1 that you linked to above. If you'll look on page 1-4 of the Maintenance Manual (which is page 16 of the pdf), you should see some notes at the bottom just above a CAUTION statement. Note 2 gives instructions on how to access the Maintenance Mode: "All PC-2TX's have a Maintenance or Diagnostic Mode. To access this mode: hold in the Audio Control switch on the panel and then press Power On.keypress." Out of curiosity, I decided to see if I could get mine to go into this mode, but at first I couldn't figure out where this Audio Control switch was. It turns out it is on the back of the unit (which I hadn't seen in a couple of years since I placed it in the aquarium stand). I powered down the unit, then pushed in and held the Audio Control switch (big metal button/knob on the right if facing the back of the unit), then pushed the "POWER ON" button on the front of the unit. I don't know if it was necessary or not, but I held the Audio Control switch button in until the unit fully powered on and said "MAINTENANCE MODE" at the top of the screen. The screen had a menu with three choices "[1] S/C BOARD TESTS AND DISPLAYS [2] M/C BOARD TESTS AND DISPLAYS [3] PRESS [OFF] TO EXIT" I played around with the various different tests just to see what they did. In order to get out of a particular test, I had to push the "CANCEL" button in the lower left of the front panel. Once I was done, I pushed the "CHANNEL/OFF" button in the lower right and the unit powered off. I then turned it back on and reprogrammed my doses.
> 
> I'll let you know if I'm able to procure the rest of the manual.
> 
> Andy


Thanks Andy,

I've been covered up at work or I would have noticed your post earlier. I'll keep looking too but I'm not holding out a lot of hope on finding the complete manual online.

BTW - I've been toying with trying the Multidose feature. It'll run the pump at a given rate for a given amount and then repeat that at a specified interval. I thought I'd give it a try; dosing for a full day just before lights on and then repeat every day. you can program up to 24 doses and then it looks like it will save the program so all you have to do is restart it for 24 more (or what ever you programed). Thoughts?

ALSO I've got a boat load of tube sets for sell if you know of anyone that needs some.

Thanks again,
Pat


----------



## nfrank

i have a gemini PC-2TX doser for sale, with 5 sets of tubing. $30!! Shipping extra. Or can be picked up in Raleigh.


----------



## bigstick120

Mine has gone into maintenance mode, holding the dose button on start up fixes it, took me FOREVER to figure that one out!

In interested in how you got the multidose to work. I can get it to run once, but then it needs to be restarted. I cant get it to run daily without pressing some buttons.


----------



## pat w

bigstick120 said:


> In interested in how you got the multidose to work. I can get it to run once, but then it needs to be restarted. I cant get it to run daily without pressing some buttons.


I'll be checking it out sometime this week I hope. When I do I'll let ya'll know how it works out.

Pat


----------



## pat w

OK, Well that's a bust. It seems that the combination of interval and number of doses can't exceed a limited dosing period of 24 hrs. You could do 12 doses at an interval of 2 hrs or 24 at intervals of 1 hr as long as all doses are completed in a single 24 hr period.

Rats, I was hoping that would work.

Pat


----------



## bigstick120

pat w said:


> OK, Well that's a bust. It seems that the combination of interval and number of doses can't exceed a limited dosing period of 24 hrs. You could do 12 doses at an interval of 2 hrs or 24 at intervals of 1 hr as long as all doses are completed in a single 24 hr period.
> 
> Rats, I was hoping that would work.
> 
> Pat


Yep, same issue I had. After the 24hrs you need to reset it manually. You cant just set and walk away. It has to run continuously.


----------



## nfrank

I have tubing sets for sale. Very Cheap!

See 
Gemini tubing sets F/S on APC


----------



## Greg0u812

Andy Ritter said:


> Hello Ari,
> 
> I'm glad that you found this thread helpful. I hope that you enjoy the freedom that comes with automatically dosing your aquarium as much as I do.
> 
> I would be glad to answer any questions that you may have once you get started. My only request is that you please read the whole thread first, since most of the questions that I've been asked have already been answered multiple times. I'm a High School teacher, so I get pretty irritated when I have to answer the same question over and over again.
> 
> Andy


Hey Andy,

Thank you VERY much for posting all of this information!
I don't know if you are still active here, but would like to know if you are still going strong with the Gemini?

I am in the process of cycling a 125 right now to be used as a fairly heavily planted tank.
My PC-2 should be arriving tomorrow. 

Again, thank you. I have been studying your results quite heavily and will be using quite a bit of info from these posts.

Now, I need get with nfrank and see if he still has those sets. I believe I have a source for them just a few blocks from me. I've already talked to a pharmacist and he understands what I am wanting to do. Not sure how much they are going to be yet. Scouring Ebay, I have found a few lots for sell. They seem pretty intense on having to have a prescription to buy the sets so I need to send each a message and see if they can do a disclaimer for me to purchase.

Good days,
Greg


----------



## john4now

It looks like you are using 12v pumps connected to 110vac. Can this be?


----------



## TankAaron

@ JPMTotoro,

Would you post some updates? Tell us how the system has been working out since you started it? Have you had any hiccups along the way? Has it been perfectly perfect the whole time?


----------



## bigstick120

TankAaron said:


> @ JPMTotoro,
> 
> Would you post some updates? Tell us how the system has been working out since you started it? Have you had any hiccups along the way? Has it been perfectly perfect the whole time?


This post is pretty old so I dont know if he will respond, I will tell you that I have had a system similar to this running for a few years and its great. The only problem I run into is over time you get some tubing that will clog. Running hot water through it sometimes helps, maybe need to bleach them and if that doesnt work they get replaced. Once you spend some time calibrating it, its a HUGE time saver.


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## TankAaron

Thank you Big.


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