# Rotala Indica Health Check



## dmastin (Jun 27, 2009)

Hi Folks!
Day 7 of my newly planted established tank. My Rotala Indica has nice new growth, but not so great old growth (what was shipped), especially obvious with plants in background. Is this typical? Thanks so much in advance!


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Growth forms can change, or old leaves can show new deficiencies. In both of your threads, I think it would be helpful to post your full parameters. Having a working system to start from is better than trying to nail down one issue at a time.

-Philosophos


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## dmastin (Jun 27, 2009)

Thanks so much! I'm a beginner! Here's what I could think to include:
50g tank (36x18x19)
~200 watts standard fluorescent various plant grow tubes
about 10hrs full 1hrs 100 watts (I have a glass canopy these lights sit on that has some incredibly stubborn hard water deposits, so I'm guessing I'm losing at least 25% wattage) 
Eco-complete substrate
pH 7.2 without CO2 closer to 6.8 with CO2
GH 100 ppm
KH 150 ppm
Dosing Seachem as per their Aquarium dosing chart (http://www.seachem.com/support/PlantDoseChart.pdf)
I plan to mix my own once this wetness behind my ears dries.
Flourish tabs spaced 4-6 inches
Water temp 81F
Ammonia ~0ppm, Nitrite ~ 0ppm, Nitrate ~30ppm
Fluval 305 sponges and bio media only
CO2 DIY with Hydor diffuser on 24/7
Air stone during lights off



Philosophos said:


> Growth forms can change, or old leaves can show new deficiencies. In both of your threads, I think it would be helpful to post your full parameters. Having a working system to start from is better than trying to nail down one issue at a time.
> 
> -Philosophos


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## ingg (Apr 8, 2007)

First, that isn't Rotala Indica, it is most likely rotundifolia...


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## dmastin (Jun 27, 2009)

Zounds! Tell me more, I'm trying to find "rotundifolia" on the web...



ingg said:


> First, that isn't Rotala Indica, it is most likely rotundifolia...


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

~4wpg is going to need heavier ferts than what seachem can offer, unless you like spending a lot of money for their brand name. They do not plan their dosage for your level of light intensity, and problems with algae and plant deficiency symptoms will happen.

To be honest, it'll be easier if you scale back to about ~110w over your entire system, ~165 if you want to prune a lot. Consider reducing the photoperiod to around 8 hours at 165w, or a full 10h at 110.

I'd recommend getting on to those DIY ferts as quickly as possible. aquariumfertilizer.com is a good place to order. How you dose varies by preference; PMDD, PPS Pro and EI are the predominate high tech fert methods. I use a custom tailored EImy self.

Focus on your CO2. Crank it up as high as you can without stressing/killing the fish.

If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask. Going only 3/4 of the way on a stable system can still make for fantastic disasters.

Above all, READ. Don't just trust me or some other person on the forum without verifying it. Find the pros, find their methods, and reproduce them. Journals and textbooks are great if you're in to that sort of thing.

-Philosophos


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## dmastin (Jun 27, 2009)

Keerap, sorry, I max out at 100w. Two 36 and two 24 and they total about 100w. Wasn't thinking right. Ok DIY ferts, got it. I've been reading about EI, now two other methods! He, he. Okay, I'm game. CO2, I'm working on a pressurized system, and I just ordered another drop checker (one with standardized fluid rather than adding tank water). I think old school was ferts and lights equals algae and now I'm realizing we know that's not true! I'm catching up though! I do feel like I'm working from a 3/4 perspective. Thanks so much for the advice! Oh and read, read, got it. Will do!



Philosophos said:


> ~4wpg is going to need heavier ferts than what seachem can offer, unless you like spending a lot of money for their brand name. They do not plan their dosage for your level of light intensity, and problems with algae and plant deficiency symptoms will happen.
> 
> To be honest, it'll be easier if you scale back to about ~110w over your entire system, ~165 if you want to prune a lot. Consider reducing the photoperiod to around 8 hours at 165w, or a full 10h at 110.
> 
> ...


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

dmastin said:


> Zounds! Tell me more, I'm trying to find "rotundifolia" on the web...


We've got what you need right here:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/


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## dmastin (Jun 27, 2009)

Cool, okay so the suggestion is: ROTALA ROTUNDIFOLIA maybe?
Yeah, I'm looking and according to this website the Indica has rounder leaves.
Great information! Thanks to you both!



Cavan Allen said:


> We've got what you need right here:
> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/


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## dmastin (Jun 27, 2009)

So at day 7 would it be typical for the old growth of Rotala Indica to look not so good?


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm guessing you've got multiple deficiencies to be honest. If the old growth is looking worse than it did when you first got it, then in this case I'd say it's deficiency. In some plants it can be growth transition going from emersed to immersed, but I'm not seeing the growth form deviation in this case.

My guess is your phosphates aren't deficient, and your nitrates look good. The yellowing old growth is confusing, given that it's typically an NO3 issue. Anyhow, for a quick fix, I'd say increase your potassium, start doing EI style water changes, and dose perhaps 45ml of flourish through the week. I'm guessing you'll want CSM+B soon. Speaking of which, I think I'll go order some now, along with a little CaCL2 to replace the typical EI CaSO4.

-Philosophos


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

That's deffinitely R. rotundifolia. R. indica is a very different plant: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...details.php?id=317&category=genus&spec=Rotala

I agree you could bump up the Potassium, but 7 days and seeing some older plant tissue go brown is not out of the ordinary. There's no telling what conditions these plants were grown in (probably immacualte) so that older tissue is having trouble adjusting to your tank. If your new growth looks good, then go with that. You can trim Rotala quite heavily (down to just a few nodes) to get rid of the unsightly tissue and your new growth should just as good as your current new growth.

-Dave


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

WEll, I wouldn't worry so much at all about the old growth. When you give a plant a new environment, all kinds of things come into play and the old growth, which essentially is what you put into that new environment can't adjust...the plant adjusts by having the new growth reflect its "acceptance" or lack thereof, depending on the hospitality of the new surroundings. And you are apparently getting new growth so that's a good start. But, I'd agree very much that you'd need to provide a better fertilization to your tank so that new growth is more robust. The fact that it's "narrowing" from the old growth is a sign that something is missing, although it is not a serious problem and should be corrected with the kind of dosing regime that philiphos recommends. I suggest that you look that kind of dosing:

http://www.ukaps.org/EI.htm

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/EI.htm


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## Nerbaneth (Jun 30, 2009)

The picture on your plant finder of Rotala Indica is inaccurate. 








Above is Rotala Indica
Below is Rotala Rotundifolia 









The difference is minimal, but the mistake has been made since the beginning of the aquatic trade. The general rule is that Indica is solid green while Rotundifolia has red at the top. I have both plants in on of my aquariums and there is a great difference. I would assume that the image of Indica on your plant finder is either Indica grown emersed or not Indica at all.

dmastin your plant is R. Indica.

Also these guys have the right idea - the bottom of your plants are probably in shock from relocation, but I would also not be surprised if it was a possible lack of nutrients as well. Dose EI (which can be simulated using the flourish products) until you run out of flourish and then just buy the PMDD from aquariumfertalizers.com (I use EI PMDD style dosing because it is the easiest for me - you can find it on barrreport.com 's forums.)

Hope that helped,
Nerbaneth


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## dmastin (Jun 27, 2009)

Ah thanks Nerbaneth. Mine certainly is green on top at this point and was sold as R. Indica. I have dry ferts on the way so I hope to start dosing EI or PPS in a couple or three days.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Nerbenth,

It is you who is mistaken. R. indica and R. rotundfiolia are very different plants, especially in regard to their inflorescences (flowering structures). The identity of the R. indica in the Plant Finder has been verified both by botanical specimens and by a botanist specializing in that family. Indeed, the same very high standards apply to the rest of the resource. Please note as well that species names are not capitalized. Thank you.


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## dmastin (Jun 27, 2009)

Very interesting! As R. indica (no cap on species name ) seems pretty darn rare, I'll assume I've got R. rotundifolia. Getting back to the health of my plants, . A couple of days later I think the new growth looks pretty much like the old growth. Just the leaves are brown on the old growth. Now what's really going to be a problem is I picked up some Rotala macrandra at the LFS today knowing I surely don't have the wpg for it.











Cavan Allen said:


> Nerbenth,
> 
> It is you who is mistaken. R. indica and R. rotundfiolia are very different plants, especially in regard to their inflorescences (flowering structures). The identity of the R. indica in the Plant Finder has been verified both by botanical specimens and by a botanist specializing in that family. Indeed, the same very high standards apply to the rest of the resource. Please note as well that species names are not capitalized. Thank you.


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