# lost everything :(



## baj (Nov 2, 2004)

Hi,
I had a nice healthy breeding colony of cherries and 1 wood shrimp in a heavily planted 10g, along with 6 white clouds. Yesterday, I did my weekly water change, nothing out of the routine EXCEPT, I added 1 teaspoon of epsom salt in the tank (I never dosed Mg until now, but then I thought maybe if I add it i can grow some of the hard to grow plants in there better), within a period of hours the tank looked like it had been nuked, all shrimp were dead. The white clouds and 50 trillion snails live on as if nothing has happened, but all shrimp, babies, adults and the wood shrimp seem to have died in their tracks, it looks weird, it seems they have been petrified or frozen in place or something, I doidnt notice it last night, I just glanced and I saw them standing around. This morning, I realized they were dead since they were all still standing there. The only thing different was the addition of 1 teaspoon of epsom salt (Swan brand epsom salt from Wallyworld). I dont know if this is the chief culprit. My water change routine was not out of the ordinary. I remove 50% of the water, fill it back full and remove 50% of the water again and then fill it back. I then dose the tank and I added that darn mgso4 yesterday and nuked all the shrimp. Well, there goes my 8 months of hard work and care.
If anyone has seen then before with ODing (I dont think 1 level teaspoon is OD, but I dont know) of MgSO4 please contribute so no one else does this.


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## Dewmazz (Sep 6, 2005)

Sorry to hear about your shrimp armageddon. I like to use the fertilator before I add anything to my tank. The ideal range is 2-5ppm. If you added 1 teaspoon of epsom salt, you're getting about 12.5 ppm. I don't know how deadly it is to shrimp, but it sounded like it turned into shellfish mustard gas.


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## baj (Nov 2, 2004)

Hi,
yeah, i calculated 1 tsp. mgso4-7h2o to raise the concentration to between 10-15ppm, I didnt find anywhere if this might nuke shrimp. I dont know if my Mg content was already high in the water, it could be but I dont have a Mg test kit. It was just a moment of insanity that I thought "hmm lets add some Mg", maybe the shrimp just kept crapping or something, maybe thats why they were in one place, and then they died of crapping too much. I guess they were acclimatized to the water conditions and the sudden change in GH or even the amount of sulphate in the water that was too much for them, poor little guys.
regards,
-b


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## Dewmazz (Sep 6, 2005)

baj said:


> It was just a moment of insanity that I thought "hmm lets add some Mg", maybe the shrimp just kept crapping or something, maybe thats why they were in one place, and then they died of crapping too much.


LOL! I find sarcasam to be a great way to "blow-up"  frustrations


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## baj (Nov 2, 2004)

frustration is anger without motivation


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

Very strange... MgSO4 (Epsom salts) should not have any deadly affect like that.

Only two things that I can think of:

- It wasn't Epsom salt but something else?
- Something changed in your tap water. Do you treat it?


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

I'm sorry to hear that Baj, how terrible  I also wonder if you treat your water? Also, what is the kh/gh originally?


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## baj (Nov 2, 2004)

Hi Laith and PG, 
yeah, I seriously doubt the epsom salt did it. I think it may be something to do with the water, maybe something the shrimp couldnt handle but the fish could. I dont treat my water, I just take it straight off the tap, it never was a problem until saturday. I dont have my GH and KH kit at the moment, I need to figure out who I lent it to , I'll do a test before I change the water and post the results. 
regards,
-b


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Baj, sorry to hear about that. As you said, I would seriously doubt the Mg did it. I add it to all my tanks (2-3ppm 2-3x a week) and have never seen any of my cherries suffer for it.


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Are you on well water or city water, Baj? If you are on city water, you will seriously need to start treating it. Even if it doesn't kill them, it is putting them under great undue stress if there is chlorine or chloramines in it...


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

They could have decided to add chlorine/chloramine which they weren't doing previously.

As they have no requirement to forewarn anyone (I don't think?)...


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## JimM (Aug 26, 2005)

Sorry to hear about your loss.. The waterchange you mention 50% drain, fill, 50% drain then fill sounds a bit rough on the inhabitants.. I would go with 50% or less per week, personally I only top off my 10gallon cherry shrimp tank and only do smaller wc once in a while. Shrimp are much more sensitive to changes in water parameters than fish. also using Prime to condition the new water before the change would help too.


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## baj (Nov 2, 2004)

hi all,
you are probably right, its been raining here the past week and the city may have added something to the water. I agree that the the water change schedule is a bit harsh, in fact, I started this the past couple of weeks since I have a root like driftwood in there that leached a lot (even after boiling it etc). I took it out this week during the water change and did the 50-50 thing to get the water clear. I am now convinced it wasnt the MgSO4, if it was it would have been mentioned long back since most of us add it to shrimp tanks. So now the cuprits are: a change in the city water or a sudden shock due to ph change, temperature change (less likely) or water hardness due to the massive water change and immediate dosing thereafter (I think this is more likely the case, the sudden drop in ph due to water change and the sudden rise in Gh due to dosing Mg, man that was really stupid of me, maybe the ph swing put them under stress, I did it before and they were fine, then the added stress of water hardness must have hit them). I am just surprised that the guys just died in their tracks, I would expect that if they struggled for a while, some would be belly up etc, but this was really eerie...it was like they were standing around going "dudes.. something's wrong" and then stopped moving or something.
regards ,
-b


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## whitepine (Aug 14, 2004)

Sorry to hear about your loss. When ever my cherry die(from old age I imagine) they sometime seem to just be sitting on the bottom. If I don't get them out ... the others seem to enjoy them ;-)

If you would like more cherries pm... we can probably work something out.


cheers, Whitepine


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## baj (Nov 2, 2004)

Thanks whitepine. i got my cherries from you  I dont think i'll be getting more anytime soon, but I will get back to you when I decide to keep them again.
regards,
-b


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## Safado (Aug 4, 2005)

Baj, I have some local shrimp. Let me know when you want to get some more, and I can help you out.


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

One teaspoon in a 10 gallon?

That's WAY WAY too much. Epsom salt (MgSO4*7H2O) only raises magnesium. The main component of hardness is calcium. Hardness really should be raised in a 3:1 or 4:1 calcium / magnesium ratio.

Did you use a proper measuring spoon, and not a kitchen utensil? Did you scrape it level? If not, you added even more. Also keep in mind the tank is probably not holding 10 gallons of water.

Even if the levels weren't at "lethal" levels, a sudden change in water chemistry can cause stress to animals that are sensitive to it, such as delicate invertebrates like small freshwater shrimp.

Trobleshooting at its most basic says, OK, something no longer works, so, what's different now as opposed to before when everything was all right?


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## baj (Nov 2, 2004)

Salt said:


> One teaspoon in a 10 gallon?
> 
> That's WAY WAY too much. Epsom salt (MgSO4*7H2O) only raises magnesium. The main component of hardness is calcium. Hardness really should be raised in a 3:1 or 4:1 calcium / magnesium ratio.
> 
> ...




Thanks for your input.
egards,
-b


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