# 180 gal tank lighting



## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Just wondering what would be the best form of lighting for a 180g. I assume it will probably be 2-3 MH light pendants. Anyone got suggestions? A mixture of MH and PC perhaps? 

If so any advice would be appreciated. 

I am setting up a show tank in a local pet shop and the owner is letting me use store equipment, so I don't think money is a terrible obstacle, but it is definitely a consideration. I think a tank with lighting towards the lower end of medium light should be perfect. Hope that makes sense haha.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Anyone? Is this in the wrong part of the forum?


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## milalic (Aug 26, 2005)

I think it is in the correct part of the forum. I now nothing about lighting. Will see if I can get someone to reply to this thread.

Cheers,
Pedro


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## erik Loza (Feb 6, 2006)

Yep. At least 4 pendant 150w MH's if it's a typical 180 gallon.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

I think that the light is your last problem 

Since the tank is not in your home and it's also huge you must set it up in a way that you don't have to be there and clean it often, change water on a certain day or have the store folk do it. If anything about this tank makes it appear hard to do the store folk will soon take it down.

So do yourself a favour - keep the water completely void of NPK and use root feedind only. Use some peat/laterite/activated carbon or a thin layer of plain soil/laterite/activated carbon. Cover it with a 3-5 inches of inert gravel. 

Light should be only about 1 wpg. 160-180 watts of fluorescents will do just fine.

Plant a bunch of swords and crypts. An important "secret" to get off to a good start is to use potted plants. Do not use plants that where shipped with the roots exposed. The difference in how the potted plants adapt is very, very big.

Never fertilize the water but make sure the Ca and Mg are enough (swords love both). No Iron/Micros until the swords show signs they need it. 

Lots of CO2 is very important - make sure the way you difuse it is efficient or the store folk will frown at the headache of having to refill the CO2 every month.

When starting the tank use as much live bacteria as you can - either the expensive BioSpira or mulm from an existing clean tank. The importance of bacteria in the beginning cannot be stressed enough.

The best part of my advice is here: I did my 180 exactly as I described above. I used pieces of frozen soil/laterite under the roots of the swords. Can you believe that in about 2 months now I have not wiped algae off the glass even once? 4 (four) Amano shrimp cleared the algae that came on some plants in 2 days... Poor things are starving now - the tank is completely clean!

The only issue I see with setting up the tank as I described is the low light. A store needs to "wow" customers with strong light under which everything looks very beautiful. But on the other hand a planted tank in a pet store is something that people always marvel at. Everybody has seen reef tanks, but a big planted tank is a rare thing.

You may add 3 x150 watt MH lights but use them very carefully - maybe only 1 hour a day to start and see how long you can run them later.

The way I did my tank is not something I came up with on a whim. A lot of people advised me how to do it and it's the easiest tank I've ever dealt with. A 180 gallons easy to deal with? Yes, and you can do it too.

--Nikolay


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Hmm very interesting Niko. I have a few questions for you or anyone else who wants to chime in.

Will this tank’s substrate support non-planted plants like java ferns and anubias or will I need to add a little NPK for them?

As for tank lighting, he has T5's on several of the planted tanks, so I will probably have access to T5s. I can add 180w of T5s and then try 2-3 MH lights. So how does 10 hours of T5 light, with 1 hr of MH lighting during mid day for the beginning, and then increasing the MH light over time sound?

Also can you be more specific about the frozen soil? Do you mean regular garden soil from home depot, or is it some sort of specific soil? 

Also what kind of cap would be cheap and look good instead of gravel? 3-5 inches worth of the aquarium quartz gravel could be quite expensive in a 180g tank. 

You mentioned activated carbon, does this go into the substrate layer? If so, how thick should this layer be, and how thick should the peat/soil layer be?

As far as amazon swords go... I was really hoping to avoid these plants in the layout because I just don't like the way they grow so huge. I might add some of the smaller swords like the bar sword, but I wanted to make it a tank something like what I have here in college. I was thinking of adding some easy plants in the beginning, but as the tank matures I was hoping to add some stem plants and reds like alternantheria and possibly some harder plants.

The store has some really good people for the fish department, they take care of all the tanks very well, and the salt water reef tank. So doing water changes and that sort of thing should not be too difficult for them to do on a weekly basis.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Zapins said:


> Will this tank's substrate support non-planted plants like java ferns and anubias or will I need to add a little NPK for them?


I wanted to mention that but tried to keep my post from growing way long. Yes! Ferns, moss, and anubias will do great in that super lean water but don't expect the Ferns and the anubias to grow fast. The moss will do just fine.



Zapins said:


> As for tank lighting, he has T5's on several of the planted tanks, so I will probably have access to T5s. I can add 180w of T5s and then try 2-3 MH lights. So how does 10 hours of T5 light, with 1 hr of MH lighting during mid day for the beginning, and then increasing the MH light over time sound?


Depends on how high above the tank are the T5s. 10 hours to start maybe just right but it will be safer to start with 8.



Zapins said:


> Also can you be more specific about the frozen soil? Do you mean regular garden soil from home depot, or is it some sort of specific soil?


Yes regular garden soil that according to the label had no added ingredients. I had to use frozen pieces of soil because the tank had water in it already and a 180 gallon tank is a pain to drain and move the substrate around in order to lay a layer of soil under it. So I listened to Freemann and mixed the dry soil with a little water - basically making mud. I poured the mud very shallow in a plastic container and placed it in the freezer. When it froze I broke it down to pieces and froze them again because they thaw a little when handled. I used tweezers to bury the frozen pieces under the roots of the swords. Burrying the frozen piece of soil should be done fast - you just go through the water very fast and stick it in the gravel with one motion. The freezing allows you to have a few seconds before the soil starts to release debries in the water. It's enough time to let you do everything clean. I did the same with the dry laterite - basically mixed it with a little water (no need to disolve it completely), froze it, broke it into pieces and burried it quickly.

I assume you will be setting up that tank starting from scratch so you can just lay a layer of whatever nutritious substrate you choose and cap it with the inert layer. No need to freeze anything.



Zapins said:


> Also what kind of cap would be cheap and look good instead of gravel? 3-5 inches worth of the aquarium quartz gravel could be quite expensive in a 180g tank.


$11 per 50 lb. bag filter sand. You will need about 5 bags. Every fish store has it they should know what it is. Cannot go cheaper than that. The color is "natural gravel" - roughly like oatmeal.



Zapins said:


> You mentioned activated carbon, does this go into the substrate layer? If so, how thick should this layer be, and how thick should the peat/soil layer be?


Yes the activated carbon goes in the substrate. Mixed with the nutritious layer of soil or peat and laterite. Do not use a lot of carbon - sprinkle it loosely all over the soil or peat. It does not need to form a layer by itself.

The peat or soil layer should be not more than 1/2 inch.



Zapins said:


> As far as amazon swords go... I was really hoping to avoid these plants in the layout because I just don't like the way they grow so huge. I might add some of the smaller swords like the bar sword, but I wanted to make it a tank something like what I have here in college. I was thinking of adding some easy plants in the beginning, but as the tank matures I was hoping to add some stem plants and reds like alternantheria and possibly some harder plants.


I suggested swords because the store can easily get them and sell them. Also my "hands off tank" experience is with them. Heavy root feeders which helps you keep the water clean and algae at zero.

Stems may do well in that tank but they must have good light or they will stretch way high in the 2 or so feet of water. The MH will take care of the light needs but initially you want to start easy and create the feeling that you are in control and that a planted tank is fun and easy to do.



Zapins said:


> The store has some really good people for the fish department, they take care of all the tanks very well, and the salt water reef tank. So doing water changes and that sort of thing should not be too difficult for them to do on a weekly basis.


Do not count on that. A lot of things happen at a fish store and often things get too hectic. Remember - the easier to maintain the planted tank is, the less rules and restrictions they have to follow, the better. A low light tank, with root feedind plants, algae free, never a single problem and a water change schedule that is not rigid are the things that will help you establish a good impression.

--Nikolay


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Hey Zapins, how are you?

Sounds like a fun project. I'll be setting up a 180g too in a few weeks so I've read this thread with great interest. I've really been torn between using MH's and CF's. I like the look of MH's, but they seem a bit on the expensive side, especially when considering replacement bulbs. They're also a bit hard to modulate -- it's easier to turn on 1, 2, or 3 banks of CF's compared to the MH's which are either on or off. I have some worries about the heat from the MH's too. Since I have no actual experience with them, I'll probably end up going with AH-Supply's 55W kits. I might start out with 2 banks in each 2' section of tank (6'x2'x2'), and see if it's enough to grow good foreground plants. I suspect more would only be overkill, but 24" is a long way to expect light to go.

I have to think that Niko's advice regarding a setup for a fish store is right on. In a house, one has the luxury of tweaking the setup almost constantly. The store tank has to almost take care of itself. A 180 done right shouldn't be too bad, but a big tank with poor planning can become an enormous pain very quickly. Low maintainence, low maintainence, low maintainence........... I once read about a person with a high-light 180 filled with stem plants. He spent 6-8 hours per week pruning and filled up one or two 5 gallon buckets with clippings each week.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

I'm good guiac_boy, this will be a fun project! Unfortunately I will be working on it from afar so it will basically have to work on its own like Niko said.

Hmm very good advice all around Niko, especially about the employees, I do want to give the impression of ease to them and the customers. To that end I think I will start off with the amazon swords, and anubias/java/moss and then over the next few months, once the MH's come online I will add stems and possibly some of the easy foreground plants like rotala goias or glosso. Driftwood will be important in this tank though so not too many stems will be in the setup.

I will definitely do just what we talked about. Though I am a little concerned with the soil layer becoming anaerobic. I once tried soil once in a 38g with low light (1wpg) and the soil became very anaerobic. Should I add MTS' to the 180g to prevent this from occurring?

Also could you be a big more specific with the "50 lb. bag filter sand"? I don't remember ever having seen this stuff while working there, so it would be better if I had a product name to tell them. Is this essentially pool filter sand? I think a black substrate would look best in this tank...

One last thing, what sized CO2 tank would be better? 

Thanks for answering all my questions, I know it takes a lot of time to write such detailed responses


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Zapins said:


> I will definitely do just what we talked about. Though I am a little concerned with the soil layer becoming anaerobic. I once tried soil once in a 38g with low light (1wpg) and the soil became very anaerobic.


I don't have problems with anaerobic processes in my tank but I did not put a whole layer of soil - just one 2 x 2 inch piece of the frozen soil under the roots of each plant. Maybe you can try the same, why not, better be safe.



Zapins said:


> Should I add MTS' to the 180g to prevent this from occurring?


I've never used them so I don't know.



Zapins said:


> Also could you be a big more specific with the "50 lb. bag filter sand"? I don't remember ever having seen this stuff while working there, so it would be better if I had a product name to tell them. Is this essentially pool filter sand? I think a black substrate would look best in this tank...


Yes, it is pool filter sand. I don't know who makes it unfortunatelly but it is pretty popular and the store should know what it is.

Black would be cool but debries are more visible on it. Also all the black substrates that I know are rather fine. EcoComplete is an exception but I personally don't like it.



Zapins said:


> One last thing, what sized CO2 tank would be better?


It is best to have at least a 10 lb. bottle along with a 5 lbs. one for backup. That way as soon as the CO2 runs out you can use the 5 lbs. bottle while refilling the big one. From experience I can tell you that the store folk will let the CO2 run out and not swap the bottles themselves.

I personally would diffuse the CO2 with a powerhead and a ceramic diffuser under it. But if you have good experience with a reactor - use it. In big tanks the inefficiency of the CO2 diffusion becomes a real problem. On the 240 gals. setup in a local pet store tank that you have probably seen I had to refill the 10 lb. tank every 3 weeks. The store owner wanted to push and sell an in-tank reactor that was not efficient but he wanted it in the tank so people see it and buy it.

One problem that you will face is providing good circulation in that 180 gals. tank. Not only temperature differences but also uneven speading of the CO2 are the results of bad circulation. That's why I would use a powerhead/ceramic diffuser combo - it spreads microbubbles at a distance of about 3 feet.



Zapins said:


> Thanks for answering all my questions, I know it takes a lot of time to write such detailed responses


Not for the clinically obsessed 

--Nikolay


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