# dosing rules?



## dirtyted (Mar 5, 2010)

are there any rules for dosing? Are there combinations that are not good to mix at the same time? For that matter can I mix what ever dry ferts I want in the same solution?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi dirtyted,

Yes there are rules for dosing. Yes there are combinations that it is not good to mix at the same time. No you cannot mix whatever dry ferts you want in the same solution.

Try reading the "stickys" at the beginning of this forum, PPS-Pro and EI are both good dosing regimes.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

I'll second using a preexisting method. If you don't already know what won't work because of some other background in chemistry, then you'd have to spend the time learning chemistry. If you're just starting out, this is not the most important thing for you to learn in order to achieve a balanced tank.

I think your time right now would be best spent on learning the basics. Once you've got the crash course on how plants work and setting up a nice substrate, focus on everything related to balancing light and CO2. When you find yourself inconvenienced by dry dosing more than trying to keep your tank stable, then you can learn all about stock solutions. For now, you'll save more time and energy learning about more important things.


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## dirtyted (Mar 5, 2010)

My tank is new about 2 months old I just switched from diy co2 to pressurized. I have been dosing with seachem products. According to the chart I have about 30 ppm co2. I know this is not the best way to check but I do not think my diy drop checker functioned properly. I use a double t5 ho. 10 hrs a day. I am waiting for dry ferts (ordered online) and I was thinking of using the method of controlled imbalance. My chemistry knowledge is minimal to say the least. Can you tell me what specific ferts should not be dosed into the tank together?


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

CO2 isn't just "drop it in and watch it work when it seems to be 30ppm" you'll be fighting with it for a while unless you have someone experienced to look your tank over and help adjust. This is something everyone goes through; I still have to pay attention to it.

There are tons of fertilizers out there that won't get along for various reasons, need to be mixed in certain orders, or won't be soluble at high enough levels. Going through all of the possibilities would make for a long list.

I haven't heard of the method you've mentioned. Do you have a link to anything about it? Also, what fertilizers did you order? If I can get info about these two things, I can give you my opinion as to whether everything is compatible.


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## dirtyted (Mar 5, 2010)

mci is on this website but hidden under algae. I ordered KNO3, KH2PO4, and K2SO4. I will use seachem trace Epsom salt for Mg. MCI recommends the opposite MG-Ca relationship 1:4 as opposed to 4:1. I monitor my CO2 with my PH which is 6.4 (7.6 out of tap). My fish seem fine no gasping or anything and my plants are pearling so I believe that I am in the ball park of CO2 and light.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

I'll have to translate and read the article. Either way it doesn't change how your compounds will get along.

You can dose all the K+ based compounds together, the three make a nice stock solution together. Keep the MgSo4 away from the KH2PO4. It may not do so well with the KNO3 either, but it's worth testing if you like.

The magnesium is something I usually like to mix with CSM+B given all the SO4 related compounds. I'd think it would work with Seachem Flourish.

Where are you getting your calcium? CaSO4 is pretty insoluble, CaCl2 is very soluble but tends to end up as CaSO4 if its mixed with sulphate containing compounds.

Some people have gotten away with dosing everything every day, so long as one stock solution is distributed in the column before the next. I like to alternate days between micros and macros with Ca/Mg and macros on WC days.


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## dirtyted (Mar 5, 2010)

I have noticed a major distrust for the hobby level test kits amidst these forums. I might be foolhardy trusting the results I get from api and haegan test kits but more often than not they make sense to me. I use tap water. According to these test kits my GH is 125 ppm and my Ca is 40ppm. My fish of choice are the 2 german blue ram cichlids I have just purchased. Between my low KH and GH in combo with CO2 I seem to have perfect condition. I have no problem with dosing every day with alternate ferts. I just do not want to dose two things that conflict with each other or worse react with each other.

I also know that alot of people recommend EI. I am no chemistry major but I think that it sounds a little ridiculous, I think that a common carpenter could of came up with just add alot of fertilizer.

Thanks for the info on dosing MgSo4 away from K+.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Hobby test kits can be way off. Use calibration solutions though, and the hobby ones take on a lot more meaning. Many people buy high quality test kits instead of making calibration solutions; to be honest, I'd calibrate those ones too.

Tom Barr (the creator of EI) is headed for his PhD this year; hardly a carpenter. Believe it or not, dosing a lot of nutrients into the column is actually contrary to what most of the hobby was believing before his methods. The old method was to keep nutrients in the column to a very minimum, or at least to reduce PO4 to nothing. Most people ended up scraping GSA off their glass all day at a minimum, if not constantly fighting algae. Pretty much everyone was using a method that limited growth through nutrients thinking that they could actually starve the column enough to get rid of algae. If you look around at some journals related to nutrient equilibriums and algae you'll find out why it's quite absurd to take this approach.

The combination of dosing non-limiting nutrients with high CO2 and scaled back (3wpg as a recommended maximum, where many were using up to 6wpg+) lighting is an EI related thing. The outcome for us has been fantastic; algae isn't a problem anymore. It was made to be a simple, effective method to get around a lot of the nonsense in the hobby. In short, it's popular for a reason.


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Philosophos said:


> Where are you getting your calcium? CaSO4 is pretty insoluble,


Hi,

Can one dose it dry, directly into the tank? I have both CACL2 and CASO4. Right now, I am dosing a CACL2 solution I made, thanks to you Dan.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Ya, dose the CaSO4 right in. It may take a while to get into solution; it definitely won't do much with premixing. Still, tons of people use the stuff and it works just fine dry.


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Philosophos said:


> Ya, dose the CaSO4 right in. It may take a while to get into solution; it definitely won't do much with premixing. Still, tons of people use the stuff and it works just fine dry.


Thanks again


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## dirtyted (Mar 5, 2010)

I meant no offense to a revolutionary fertilizing regiment I am just choosing a different one. You have sparked my interest when you mentioned using calibration solutions. I have not heard of this till now. 
Does that mean to make a solution out of ro water and an additive (KNo3 for instance) to produce a known ppm and then test the solution?


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey, I'm all for new methods. What I'm against is people presuming any of them were simple to design. Every single major method I know of was made by someone with an advanced education and at least a decade or two of experience in planted tanks. The research and testing behind them is often pretty strenuous.

And yes, by calibration solutions that's exactly what I mean. You can turn crap hobby test kits into something worth using with them. If you're curious about this sort of thing, you might as well just come over to the dark side for a visit. I usually spend WAY more time talking about that sort of thing, PAR meters, CO2 meters, nutrient dynamics, CO2 flow etc. over there because it's standard fair. APC tends to be more social and helping people with basics, which is every bit as vital but a completely different function.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

dirtyted said:


> I meant no offense to a revolutionary fertilizing regiment I am just choosing a different one. You have sparked my interest when you mentioned using calibration solutions. I have not heard of this till now.
> Does that mean to make a solution out of ro water and an additive (KNo3 for instance) to produce a known ppm and then test the solution?


Here's a method for making reference solutions for NO3 and PO4.


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## dirtyted (Mar 5, 2010)

thanks philo i will check out barrreport.com and thanks leftc for the reference solution link I will calibrate my test kits this weekend. I however I have another question; if the test kits accuracy is off which from what I here it most likely will be, what is the adjustment? For instance if a make an NO3 solution of 10 ppm and my test kit reads 5 ppm is the test kit trash? Or is the deduction to assume that it is always off buy 5 ppm? or to assume it is off buy 50%? or worse is it exponentially incorrect?


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

I make calibration solutions at higher concentrations I need them. 100ppm for NO3 then 20ppm for PO4, etc. You can take a little of the solution and dilute as needed to match color and dial in where you're actually sitting if it turns out your test kit is off.


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