# Are my Otos doing what I think they are?



## SKSuser (Mar 20, 2006)




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## fluffiebuggie (Sep 25, 2007)

I'm no expert, but I would say...
Yes they are.


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## Chuppy (Aug 5, 2007)

expect fry/eggs soon lol


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## SKSuser (Mar 20, 2006)

Chuppy said:


> expect fry/eggs soon lol


Hehe!
Too bad, between the yoyo loaches and angelfish, I suspect there will be nothing left.


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## Chuppy (Aug 5, 2007)

that's too bad... but having otos to spawn... your params must be great for them.. care to share? 

never had much success with 100% survival when i buy my otos usually its just 50%~60%


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## SKSuser (Mar 20, 2006)

You're in luck Chuppy! I had a chance to check some parameters over lunch.
My friend gave me 4 Otos when he broke down his tank. These are the two that are left. The other two never did have the full bellies you associate with a healthy Oto. I guess they didn't enjoy the numerous kinds of algae they could find in my tank.

I'm suspecting my ammonia test kit is not right. I'll try to get some RO or sterile water to check it against.

Temp 79.5°F (26.3°C)
PH 6.0+ Probably closer to 6.2 but my test kit doesn't have a color between 6 and 6.4
NH3 (Ammonia) 2.0ppm
NO2 (NitrIte) 0.0ppm
NO3 (NitrAte)10ppm
GH 160
KH <10


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## jARDINI (Sep 2, 2007)

SKSuser said:


> Hehe!
> Too bad, between the yoyo loaches and angelfish, I suspect there will be nothing left.


my yoyos love bolivian ram eggs


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## erijnal (Apr 5, 2006)

Pretty cool video. I think a few times they went into the T-position that otos are supposed to use when they spawn. Then again they might just be competing for algae, but that'd be awesome if you could get some fry!


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## Chuppy (Aug 5, 2007)

Wow that helped a lot SKSuser....
hmm otos are quite hard to accliminate (is this the proper spelling>? mind my english.. ain't that good)
no matter how slow i accliminate them... like a drop per 2 secs. they tend to die off(50% of them usually)


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## SKSuser (Mar 20, 2006)

Chuppy said:


> Wow that helped a lot SKSuser....
> hmm otos are quite hard to accliminate (is this the proper spelling>? mind my english.. ain't that good)
> no matter how slow i accliminate them... like a drop per 2 secs. they tend to die off(50% of them usually)


Hehe, I had to google it and I'm sure I will continue to spell it wrong: acclimatize.

Anyway, I don't know how much help I'll be because my death rate is about the same. 50%

I did add the GH/KH to my previous post.I didn't get a chance to take a picture of the tank yet, so I'll just have to describe it. The 2" rocks you see in the foreground are the substrate for the whole tank. (I know, not the textbook best setup for the loaches and angel..... or anything else for that matter. However, it was my wifes guppy tank until recently. The rocks gave endless places for fry to hide. Its a good little setup for that.) Back on topic. Algae enjoys the smooth surfaces on the rocks, and in turn the Otos enjoy eating the algae. Theres a potted sword, a curtain of rotala, two Anubias barteri (one of which is on a piece of drift wood), a dying rhyzome of a java fern, and a foreground stand of H polysperma var rosanervig. Topping it all off is a hang on filter for movement, a single 24" bulb, and some southern light coming from across the room.


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## SKSuser (Mar 20, 2006)

*A little update.*

I found this little guy last night. I don't have any idea how old he is, but you can guess size by the veins on the sword plant. He's pretty little.









During lunch today, I noticed that the adults were showing interest in each other, as well as the area where I video taped them the other day. For the first time, I was able to see their eggs on the bottom of the Anubias. They are a little larger than Angelfish eggs. I don't know if they lay a single egg for each embrace, or a group. I've seen them embrace in other locations, but have been unable to see eggs in more than this location.









So, the answer to the question in my first post is indeed "yes."


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## Chuppy (Aug 5, 2007)

Great news to hear!


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## Cliff Mayes (Jan 29, 2007)

Cool!

That is a giant step! You are out on the edge Partner.

Keep documenting and publishing. Some of the experts will learn and use the info to take it to the next level. It should not be long before we are able to obtain tank raised Otos which will be a good day.

Congratulations!


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## erijnal (Apr 5, 2006)

TOO cool.

Are you trying anything to make sure the fry get any food, or are you just letting nature take its course in your tank?


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## SKSuser (Mar 20, 2006)

I think I saw eye spots on my eggs yesterday. They're hard to see without disturbing the tank with flashy lights and such. I'll look at them again with a little window light, to see if they're there for one, and to possibly give an update picture.

Edit to say// Over lunch today, I noticed that the eggs pictured in the post above were gone. Whether due to the loaches, or hatching... I won't know for a while.
Everything happens at night. Curse the luck!



Cliff Mayes said:


> Cool!
> It should not be long before we are able to obtain tank raised Otos which will be a good day.


That would be my hope. The rumors of how they catch them gross me out. If I could find a source that was more humane, I'd pay extra. They'd probably survive better too. Almost everyone I've talked to ends up with a 50% drop out ratio just like Chuppy and me.



erijnal said:


> Are you trying anything to make sure the fry get any food, or are you just letting nature take its course in your tank?


El Natural, baby!

The only thing I've read is that they should be fed baby brine shrimp (?? ) and a more logical suggestion of infusoria. Its a little cold right now in Missouri to get the infusoria going, and if I did I'd make a nasty mess in my tank for sure feeding one Oto in a 29g tank.
My otos don't seem to be making huge batches of eggs, so I'm guessing that the one that survived from the first batch (assuming thats the batch he hatched from) found enough food to get as big as he was in the picture, and there either were no others that hatched with him, or else I got at least a fair survival rate.

If things get going with more babies, I might try feeding them something, however there is a fair ammount of broken down food etc that is accessable in the rocks, as well as a fair amount of algae on the rocks. I had a bad experience with the egg junk in my friends Angelfish breeding episode. I'm not to keen on that stuff, and I don't know if the Oto baby will even like it.


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## Chuppy (Aug 5, 2007)

Baby brine shrimp is easy to cultivate though and yes.. is will be quite a mess jus to feed a single fish.. but well off worth it


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## Cliff Mayes (Jan 29, 2007)

Whatever you have been doing is the right thing. It is a risk to do anything different or add anything. The Angels and Loaches are very good predators so they are probably getting most of the fry.

Chuppy is right that Brine Shrimp are easy. Baby Brine Shrimp are generally used as a first food for most fry. Stagger two two liter bottles with airstones and use the newly hatched Shrimp before the Egg Sacs are absorbed (only a day or two at most.) After the oils from the yolks are gone the Shrimp do not have much food value. All fish love to chase down live things to eat and it is quite easy to raise Brine Shrimp to a relatively large adult size but as a food source adult Shrimp are somewhat questionable. All this may be moot because the BBS may be too big and may not be the right food anyway (infusoria may be better.) You may be correct that the junk in the tank is best.

There are a lot of How To articles about BBS on the NET that give a lot of pertinent info about this aspect of fish raising. Over the years the actual rearing and feeding have gotten crude but efficient. 

What you are doing is important to a lot of folk who do not even know it.


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## FacePlanted (Aug 13, 2007)

This is amazing b/c I thought ottos breeding in tanks was quite rare. That's really great to hear. I hope more will survive than just the one. Good luck!

-Mike B-


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## SKSuser (Mar 20, 2006)

Well, I havn't seen the male since before my last post.... Yikes! About 20 days ago.

This morning I saw 6 of what I assume to be newly hatched fry. Either the parents are having clandestine randevus, or the male is gone and the female has stored sperm. As I established before, the incubation period is several days, not the several weeks its been since I've seen him. They are impossible to confuse with each other, as the female is much fatter and has retained a different coloration of her belly throughout the time since I saw the first fry. The coloration almost looks like a gravid spot on a livebearer. However, it is not a triangle shape, the placement is slightly forward of the livebearer triangle, and unlike the livebearers, individual eggs or eyespots are never visible.
When and if I see the male, I'll be sure to post an update.

I was taking a video of the fry, and it ended shortly after I heard my wife say "Ohhhh he's eating him!!!" Anyway, I scared the guppy fry off by tapping on the glass the Oto was attached to. The Oto fry was unaffected. They seem rather oblivious to everything, except for when the lights come on at about 10:30. They don't flee from it, but they gradually move into hiding and are reclusive by first feeding at about 11:00am.
This was the first time I witnessed an encounter with other fish. With their oblivious nature in mind, I decided I'd try to move several to a more secluded tank.

By the time I was prepared, the light had been on long enough, and my spot light had drawn enough attention, and I could only find three. I removed them and placed them in another well seasoned tank. Again, I'll let the algae do the feeding for me, but this time their only competition in the tank is a lethargic P. bridgessi.

I caught a glimpse of one still in the hatching tank. The three I moved darted into the leaves and I guess I'll see them later.

I hope they survive, as I would love to document their adolescence. I'll be really glad if I can do that, as I assume it will aid someone in someday captive breeding to Oto with reliability.

That would make me very happy!


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## Chuppy (Aug 5, 2007)

Yes, that will be good. 

Guppies tend to nip at anything even my hands ahaha... 

Though it would be great news that your ottos will grow up to adults.. 
Hope to hear more soon

Drew


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## SKSuser (Mar 20, 2006)

Last night, I counted six fry still in the main tank after the move. Today, I saw one. He has gained some coloration since yesterday.

Here is a picture of one that I moved. You can see that at this point they are pretty much clear. In the right light you can see some areas where brown spots will probably show up soon. Those are mainly on the tail, fins and back.










I haven't seen any of the three in the tank that I moved them into, but there are many hiding places.


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## SKSuser (Mar 20, 2006)

I saw the male last night. I turned the light on for a surprise attack and saw him dart under something. 

Ignore my hypothesis that the female was storing sperm.


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