# (Shrimp died) Optimal ph, kh, and gh for freshwater shrimp?



## MrGuy (Apr 2, 2011)

Hi, I been wanting to add shrimps in my 75 Gallon planted tank. However, when I bought one Algea Eating Shrimp to test my water compatibility with the shrimps, it died less than 12hrs.

My last water test resulted:

pH: 7
kH: 1
gH: 6
Temp: within recommended range.

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 40ppm twitch: I don't know what happened, but I'm going to do water changes with RO water)

Phosphate is high even when not dosing any phosphate. I tested RO water for phosphate it resulted negative. But I noticed when I dose sludge remover or Flourish excel, it increases the phosphate readings. I may have a defective API phosphate tester. 

Side notes: I used to overdose on Flourish Excel, but I eliminated that 4 water changes ago until I find the reason why the shrimp died (I'm thinking its the NO3). I inject CO2 only when the lights are on. I have custom Cree LED light fixture.


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## MrGuy (Apr 2, 2011)

Water test results after 20% water change using RO water:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 80 ppm  (I did not dose any KNO3. No dead fish. Water is Clear. I'm not sure what's goin on)
Phosphate: 5ppm [smilie=p: (Did not dose any KH2PO4, flourish excel, sludge remover. Still high for some reason)

kH: 3
gH: 5
pH: 6.8

Added: 3 Ghost shrimps (we'll see if they're still alive by tonight.)


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## Ivyrose (Aug 9, 2011)

I'm certainly not the expert here and I'm hoping someone else will jump in but from everything I've heard using CO2 with shrimp is very dicey. I've got a colony of cherry shrimp and I don't use any CO2and I underdose with Exel, I think the shrimp are very sensitive to anything like this, although I don't use it very often.


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## MrGuy (Apr 2, 2011)

Ivyrose said:


> I'm certainly not the expert here and I'm hoping someone else will jump in but from everything I've heard using CO2 with shrimp is very dicey. I've got a colony of cherry shrimp and I don't use any CO2and I underdose with Exel, I think the shrimp are very sensitive to anything like this, although I don't use it very often.


Thanks for the info Ivyrose!  I was told the same thing about CO2 and shrimp but the guy wasn't sure about it. But I'll carefully monitor the CO2 levels and as of now, my levels are within recommended range according to this website http://www.gpodio.com/co2_chart.asp.

Another guy from a different LFS told me that shrimps are very sensitive to excel. So I stopped dosing Excel. But my instinct is telling me my first test shrimp died due to high levels of NO3. But I could be wrong and I'm not sure what's causing the increased in NO3 :-?.

But so far, the 3 ghost shrimps I added a few hours ago are still alive. :roll:


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## xxbenjamminxx (Oct 18, 2011)

I was always told to shut off the CO2 a while before introducing them and then SLOWLY ramp it back up watching them for any signs of stress or the like. I think excel is alot harder on shrimp then actual CO2.

My first guess as to why the algae eating shrimp died is the high reading of KNO3. I would try and keep doing WC's until I was around 20 or 30 ppm. Good luck with the ghost shrimp but they do seem to be hardier than other types so it may not be a fail safe test, esp if your thinking of adding any CRS but esp the higher (A+ and higher) grades as they are the most sensitive. 

Also should note its the same for BKK and other similar shrimps as well.


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## singolz (Oct 27, 2011)

MrGuy said:


> Thanks for the info Ivyrose!  I was told the same thing about CO2 and shrimp but the guy wasn't sure about it. But I'll carefully monitor the CO2 levels and as of now, my levels are within recommended range according to this website http://www.gpodio.com/co2_chart.asp.
> 
> Another guy from a different LFS told me that shrimps are very sensitive to excel. So I stopped dosing Excel. But my instinct is telling me my first test shrimp died due to high levels of NO3. But I could be wrong and I'm not sure what's causing the increased in NO3 :-?.
> 
> But so far, the 3 ghost shrimps I added a few hours ago are still alive. :roll:


my bet would be nitrates also. my buddy has a shrimp only tank and he's at about 40 ppm co2. he said the excel is more deadly than the co2. 40 ppm in nitrates is prettttty high...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SHWAGert (Nov 10, 2011)

MrGuy said:


> Side notes: I used to overdose on Flourish Excel, but I eliminated that 4 water changes ago until I find the reason why the shrimp died (I'm thinking its the NO3). I inject CO2 only when the lights are on. I have custom Cree LED light fixture.


Are you saying that you inject CO2 and you dosed with Excel, or that you only dosed the Excel when the lights were on? Was confused on that, but if you were injecting and dosing Excel, that seems redundant.

Since I do not know how you added the original shrimp, I will just say that with dwarf shrimp, it is important to properly acclimate them (generally a drip acclimation) before adding them. They are very sensitive to sudden changes in their water parameters, but depending the type of shrimp they can survive in a decent range of conditions. Ghost shrimp are a bit more hardy, so they may be better suited to survive such high Nitrates as you currently have.

Personally, I would continue looking for the source of whatever is causing the high Nitrates. If you suspect a possible bad reading on something, take some water to a fish store and many will test it to confirm your readings.


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## MrGuy (Apr 2, 2011)

SHWAGert said:


> Are you saying that you inject CO2 and you dosed with Excel, or that you only dosed the Excel when the lights were on? Was confused on that, but if you were injecting and dosing Excel, that seems redundant.
> 
> Since I do not know how you added the original shrimp, I will just say that with dwarf shrimp, it is important to properly acclimate them (generally a drip acclimation) before adding them. They are very sensitive to sudden changes in their water parameters, but depending the type of shrimp they can survive in a decent range of conditions. Ghost shrimp are a bit more hardy, so they may be better suited to survive such high Nitrates as you currently have.
> 
> Personally, I would continue looking for the source of whatever is causing the high Nitrates. If you suspect a possible bad reading on something, take some water to a fish store and many will test it to confirm your readings.


Sorry for the confusion but before I had the CO2 system setup, I was only dosing Excel. But since I been inject CO2, I stopped dosing excel. As for for the first shrimp, I let the shrimp in the bag float around in the tank for at least 15mins. Then introduced the shrimp into the tank.

However, I did notice that before CO2, I had stable Nitrates levels and I also did notice I had some tiny worms on the bottom of the tank. I'm thinking since CO2 was introduced, living things such as worms that were living in the gravel died due to oxygen insufficiency that triggered the Nitrate spike. But I could be wrong...

BTW just recently did another 20% WC. Two nitrate test were done. One test tube contained tank water (experiment) and 2nd test tube contained a sample of plain RO water (control). Test tube that had the tank water resulted positive with high levels of nitrates and the control presented negative in nitrates.

One out of three ghost shrimps is still alive. Just like what everyone else suggested, I do think it is the nitrate levels that's causing me problems with the shrimps.

BTW I forgot to mentioned earlier, I know nothing about shrimps LOL


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## Ivyrose (Aug 9, 2011)

MrGuy said:


> Sorry for the confusion but before I had the CO2 system setup, I was only dosing Excel. But since I been inject CO2, I stopped dosing excel. As for for the first shrimp, I let the shrimp in the bag float around in the tank for at least 15mins. Then introduced the shrimp into the tank.
> 
> I read up about introducing shrimp to the tank and this was the same info as the instructions I got with the cherry shrimp I bought. Instead of letting the bag float around put the bag in a large bowl and cut the top off then cut down the sides until you can remove the bag without any shrimp getting stuck. Then slowly add a small amount of water from the tank and continue to do this every 10 minutes for about 40 minutes to acclimatise the shrimps to the water in the tank then tip the whole bowlful of shrimp and water into the tank. Leave the lights off for at least 4 hours. I did all this and didn't lose any shrimp.


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## Big_Fish (Mar 10, 2010)

My opinions, (most backed up with external links  ) 
I've kept Ghost shrimp, RCS and CRS, Currently I've only got RCS.
Excel is FINE for dosing into a tank containing shrimp... 
C02 MAY be an issue, 1) shrimp prefer a stable PH, 2) c02 can cause the PH to drop to the point where the water becomes too acidic... acid + exoskeletons don't mix well... (snails don't like it much either but I have a feeling it's the nitrates that are the issue.)
personally, I'd suggest you continue using 25 cent ghost shrimp as 'test dummies' 
till you get the high nitrates figured out.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...invertebrates/67544-rcs-nitrates-f-excel.html
http://www.planetinverts.com/Invert Tank Setup.html
http://www.theshrimpfarm.com/articles/Caring-for-Red-Cherry-Shrimp.php
http://www.planetinverts.com/Dosing Fertilizers with Shrimp.html


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## OneDaySale (Feb 9, 2008)

I have more experience/knowledge with saltwater inverts than freshwater. The first two things people would be asking you if these were saltwater inverts are:
1) Do you have copper in the tank
2) Are you taking enough time to acclimate the fish to the water in the tank

General Q for everyone - is copper not an issue for freshwater inverts?

For you re acclimation: Matching temperature is important, but not the only thing. The water in the bag and the water in your tank may be very different - you need to take a slower approach to acclimation. Ivyrose posted above re that. To give you an analogy: The differences in water conditions can be like taking someone from sea level and teleporting them to the top of Kilimanjaro. Even if you put them in a heated tent, they'll still have a lot of trouble with the altitude. Good luck!


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## wwh2694 (Aug 15, 2008)

The most important thing with Rcs are temperature and water change weekly. That my RCS colony are multiplying on co2 injected tank. 80 temp all the time and I only feed them shirakura.


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## CharleeFoxtrot (Dec 2, 2007)

Lots of good advice here, including slow acclimation-shrimp be they freshwater or marine do not like sudden changes so slow is the way to go. As far as the high nitrates, you say you are using RO water, have you checked the values on the water your filter is producing? If the membrane or other resins need changing or backwashing that might be the cause of your high values. Also, when I get readings that are out of whack one of the things I do is to get new test kits just in case the kit is faulty  . Finally, be sure there is no copper contamination since that is fatal to shrimp even in small amounts including reading all fish food as I've seen posted elsewhere that some formulas have minute amounts of copper as ingredients.


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## MrGuy (Apr 2, 2011)

Thank you for all the advice guys :bounce: I really appreciate all the help 

Since the ghost shrimps, I haven't bought any other shrimp yet until my water is stable.

Latest test results includes:

Nitrate: 20ppm (I haven't dose any fertilizer for almost 3 weeks)
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: 0

pH: 6.6
kH: 2
gH: 4

So as you can see, the good news is Nitrate is decreasing. I was able to achieved this by doing WC w/ RO water almost every other day. I can't remember for how many days but I did 50% WC for the last two days including cleaning the substrate(fertilizer). I also added zeolites into my canister. 

I am now just waiting for my Nitrate to come down to 10ppm then i'll buy another algae eating shrimp to test my water again. I will surely adequately acclimate the shrimp before introducing it to my tank 

BTW, the last ghost shrimp died about a week ago.


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## TarantulaGuy (Apr 15, 2009)

For the record, I've seen Excel nuke shrimp with my own eyes, it will happen if you overdose at all. I've also seen CO2 nuke shrimp. Weekly water changes are NOT necessary for RCS. Copper is bad. Reaaalllyy high nitrates are also bad. Low water flow is good, but not necessary. 20ppm of nitrates shouldn't kill RCS, it's still slightly high, but nitrates are*usually* not toxic/fatal till around/over 40ppm. If you had 80ppm nitrates, that's most likely what did your shrimp in, but nitrate tests are known to be fickle, you could always have a bad test too. Water changes, and avoid excel if you can with shrimp, it's not a very good way to go. Good luck!


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