# Beginner wanting advise starting a 160g walstad tank



## James Voza (Oct 23, 2012)

Hi every one
I've been into and owed tanks since I was a child. My wife has just bought me a 160 gallon tank, height 26 inch - width 31 - length 51. It's the biggest tank I've ever had. 
I've been reading up on the walstad method for months. It seems right up my street, but I'm just wanting advice on the basics of doing this method in such a huge tank. Pros and cons.
This is my first time writing a thread so any help or questions would be great.
Thanks in advance
James


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

James, welcome to APC!

Tell us a little more about your experience. Is this your first planted tank? Your first soil substrate tank?

I suggest you get a copy of Walstad's book if you don't have it already. Disregard the advice on lighting--the technology has changed too much since the book was written.

If you've never worked with soil before, I suggest setting up some small experimental tanks or fish bowls first.

Good circulation is really important in all planted tanks, including Walstad tanks. I would aim for a total flow rate of 7-10 times the volume of the tank. Yes, that means 1,600 gph! This can come from a combination of filters and powerheads. Look in the filtration forum for several discussions of this. Personally, I like to have a lot of flow and lots of biofiltration. This is a slight departure from Walstad, but it gives the tank extra stability. I don't worry about mechanical or chemical filtration on a mature tank at all.

I think the biggest advantage of a large tank is that it is inherently more stable than smaller tanks. A mature 160 gallon Walstand tank should be very low maintenance indeed!


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## James Voza (Oct 23, 2012)

Hi there Michael.
Thank you so muh for the welcome and the reply. I've been searching the Internet for months and this website is by far the most informative and user friendly.
I'm 34 English guy living in New Zealand and I've had small tropical tanks most of my live. I've never had such a huge tank before. This will be my first time using soil in a tank. I've had plants before but not as many as ill need for the walstad method.
I've already bought a blue planet tw400 air pump, 2 x moralist nano 900 power heads for flow and a aqua one canister filter 1200.
I've read the walstad book but there's a lot in there that goes over my head. I've learnt a lot more from this web site.
I've already bought some organic potting soil and I have it in a tube soaking in water, I'm skimming the top of the water every day to get rid of floaters. And I'm also soaking 3mm to 5mm gravel from the local river that I've scrubbed and scrubbed. I'm finding it hard to buy stuff in New Zealand so I'm having to improvise.
Thanks again for your advise, I'm not going to rush this tank because I want to do it correctly.
All the best
James


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

You're welcome!

One of the good things about the Walstad method is that it does not depend on very specific types of equipment and materials for success. I'm sure you will be able to find things that work in New Zealand.

Did the organic potting soil you bought have a list of ingredients? As you probably know, the problem we sometimes have with commerical soils is that they have too many nutrients. Soaking and draining will take care of most of that. In addition to skimming off the floaters, I suggest that you carefully pour off the clear water above the soil that has settled to the bottom of the container. Refill and repeat several times.

What is the gph rating of your filter and powerheads? I'm not familiar with those brands, we might not have them in the USA.

One very common mistake beginners make is making the soil layer too deep. If an inch is good, three inches must be three times as good, right? Wrong! Even in a big tank like yours, I would not use more than a 1.5 inch layer of soil. The cap can be deeper if you like.

Good luck, and keep us updated on your progress.


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## Skizhx (Oct 12, 2010)

I wouldn't worry too much about the flow, although the typical recommendation for tanks is 10 times the tank volume, which you were given. Walstad used lower flow rates (and kept anything smaller than 15-20gal stagnant), as long as there's water movement to carry nutrients. Course it wont really hurt anything as long as you're not creating a torrent. Just eliminate/minimize surface turbulence as much as you can. Not saying disregard his advice. Just saying I wouldn't strive to adhere to it like it's the rule or anything.

Michael covered pretty well everything. I would maybe add that another mistake is not starting the tank with enough plants...

For a footprint this size you might want to set up a temporary grow-out for plants to give you a nice mass to start with.


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## James Voza (Oct 23, 2012)

The soil didn't give a list of ingredients but I've just found a local supplier who has 100% organic so I think I'll use his instead.
The filter has a flow rate of 290g/hr. The power heads have a flow rate of 237g/hr, x 2 of them.
Does anyone know roughly the amount of plants id need. The temporary grow-out for the plants is a great idea. Gonna start that this week.
Love this website, everyone is so helpful.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Your filter and powerheads give you about 5X the tank volume per hour. Start out with that, it's easy to add more if needed.

To start with, I like to see 75% of the substrate covered with foliage when you look down on the tank from the top. I'm glad Skizhx brought this up, it is a frequent mistake. Remember, these don't have to be the permanent plants you want in the tank. You can begin with cheap, fast growing stem plants to get the tank established, then slowly replace them with plants you like better.


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## James Voza (Oct 23, 2012)

Ok I've started a mini tank, soil-gravel. I'm just waiting for my plants to arrive and then I will fill it up. Going to try and grow the plants ready for the big tank. And also this smaller tank will help me to know what I'm doing right and what I'm going wrong.
I've read that the bigger the tank the more stable it is, is this true?


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## James Voza (Oct 23, 2012)

Oh and another question. We will be moving house in about 2 years from now. Does that mean I'd have to start the tank all over again?
The plants are arriving today and I'm so excited. It's been my dream to have a huge tank like this for years. I think my wife thinks I'm turning into a geek because I'm always playing with the tank or reading up about the walstad method every time I get a spare 5 mins. This hobbie is so addictive.
Once I start with the huge tank I will add photos to go with the thread.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Yes, bigger tank is usually more stable. Imagine the following scenarios, which one do you think you're more likely to get the flu virus? 

1. Confining yourself with another person with flu in the same room 
2. Staying in the same city with another person with flu virus

During shifting, I would prefer to tear down the tank. I would prefer to change my scape every 1-2 years anyway. 

You could drain almost all the water (collect the water in a pail. You can re-use them in the tank later) and shift the tank with the contents inside (except fishes and heavy objects i.e. large rocks) but you'll need a lot of muscle power and a few friends with woods to support the bottom of the tank - it's troublesome and higher risk.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Small tanks, or even just plastic buckets, can grow a lot of plants if you let them fill up and don't care how they look. It's a great way to propagate for a large tank if plants aren't readily available from other sources.

Moving a really large tank is difficult under any circumstances, but you don't need to tear it down completely. Substrate and plants can stay in, really large pieces of wood or stone should probably be moved separately. Since you haven't set the tank up yet, you can plan for this and arrange your decor for easy removal.

If the water in the new location is chemically similar to the water you have now, you don't really need to save the old tank water. Just do more water changes prior to moving so that the animals are acustomed to "fresh" water chemistry. Almost all of the beneficial microorganisms are in the biofilm that covers all the surfaces in the tank and filter. By moving the tank wet, you keep all of this and will not need to cycle the tank in its new location.

If the water at your new home is greatly different than your current one, then you should bring enough water with you to fill the tank. But this does not need to be old tank water, just treated tap water (or whatever you normally use to fill the tank).

Yes, large tanks are more stable for many reasons. Temperature and water chemistry do not change as rapidly. If a small fish dies and goes unoticed in a large tank, most likely the snails will eat it before it causes any problems. Yes, I like snails!


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## James Voza (Oct 23, 2012)

Wow again great information, thanks guys.
Well I'm not moving for a year or 2 so it's not a worry at the moment. But definitely good to be prepared.
On the subject of snails. How many should you have in a large tank. I used to have an apple snail, he was great to watch. Someone mentioned ram snails, but won't they dig up the substrate? And is it easy to keep there numbers under control?
I can find most of these answere's on line but its so much better to get answere's from real people with experience.


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## James Voza (Oct 23, 2012)

I've also found a local stream which is running off a glacier so the water is extremely cold and fresh, it's full of different plant life. I was thinking about taking some and seeing if they would do well in my start up tub. Only worry is bringing them from cold to warm water and I've also seen a lot of alge in the water so don't want to bring any of that. But this would definitely help cut down the costs of starting such a big tank. Does anyone have any thought? Or experience doing something like this?


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

OK, this is now personal opinion. Snails are an integral part of a Walstad tank. They process algae, fish food, dead plants, and even dead fish into a form that is unlikely to cause water quality problems, and which can be readily utilized by plants.

I have 5 species of snails in my tanks, and think all of them are great. Ramshorn, pond, Malayan turmpet snails, and apple (mystery snails) are all detrivores and perform the vital clean-up and humus formation functions. Assassin snails are predators, and keep the numbers of the other snails in check.

A snail population explosion is usually a symptom of overfeeding or some other problem. But too many snails a much less harmful symptom than an ammonia spike!

On the cold water plants, try them. Maybe they will work.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

I personally won't recommend ramshorn and Malaysian trumpet snails because their population is very hard to control and very hard to get rid of them once they're in your tank. In my country, majority of the hobbyists do not like those snails in their tanks.

Nerite snails are fine because they cannot breed in freshwater but some of us hate their eggs attached on the rocks which are very difficult to remove on a rough surface.


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## NYREPS (Jun 18, 2011)

totziens said:


> I personally won't recommend ramshorn and Malaysian trumpet snails because their population is very hard to control and very hard to get rid of them once they're in your tank. In my country, majority of the hobbyists do not like those snails in their tanks.
> 
> Nerite snails are fine because they cannot breed in freshwater but some of us hate their eggs attached on the rocks which are very difficult to remove on a rough surface.


I agreed with totziens they are a pest to me once you have them it is so hard to get rid of them it took me so long to get rid of all of them but I finally did it I am snail free with all my tanks,they fight for food and poo alot just brings your nitrate up. If you need a clean up crew just get some cherry shirmp they are so much more fun to watch.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Let the snail wars begin!

I've never had an over-population problem with snails. Too many snails? Don't feed so much. Too many snails? Catch them on a piece of blanched zuchinni, then feed them to the loaches, paradise fish, or assassin snails. Too many snails? Just smash them against the glass, and watch the shrimp eat them.

Lots of people just hate snails, it is a phobia or an aesthetic preference. I used to hate them when I had fish-only tanks for aesthetic reasons. But when I went over to the green side, I took Diana Walstad's advice and welcomed them into my tanks.


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## NYREPS (Jun 18, 2011)

Michael said:


> Let the snail wars begin!
> 
> I've never had an over-population problem with snails. Too many snails? Don't feed so much. Too many snails? Catch them on a piece of blanched zuchinni, then feed them to the loaches, paradise fish, or assassin snails. Too many snails? Just smash them against the glass, and watch the shrimp eat them.
> 
> Lots of people just hate snails, it is a phobia or an aesthetic preference. I used to hate them when I had fish-only tanks for aesthetic reasons. But when I went over to the green side, I took Diana Walstad's advice and welcomed them into my tanks.


Lol I like that smash them against the glass and let the shrimp eat them .


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## James Voza (Oct 23, 2012)

I think I will take Diana Walstad's advise and go with the snails.
Now with the tub that I have started with substrate (soil and gravel), I've added plants that I have bought on the Internet and some that I got from the local stream. Everything looks good in there. I've tested the water and everything is going great. Now tonight I will put a heater in there and over the next few days bring up the water to the right temp for the tank, so not to shock the cold river plants.
Should I be doing anything else to help them grow? Should I put a air pump in there?
I've realised looking at my tub compared to the tank that I'm going to need a LOT of plants to cover 75% of the tank so I hope the stream found plants survive hehe.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Diana's method encourages Malaysian trumpet snails to be used for loosening the soil if I remember correctly. I personally disliked Malaysian trumpet snails in my tank last time because they kept causing my newly planted glosso to float up. If your plants are well rooted, it shouldn't be an issue.

I personally have no fear of snails inside my tanks. I don't mind having some of them although they're introduced unintentionally. I just prefer to minimize them. I cannot stand smashing them to keep the fishes/shrimps....too cruel for my taste but after thinking about how I get rid of them by throwing them inside the bin is even more cruel since it's a slow death when they dry up. ray:

Many years ago, I realised I couldn't keep my fishes alive without snails. Later I discovered that I actually overfed my fishes without realising and without any scavengers in the tank to get rid of uneaten food, the fishes were doomed  So, sometimes snails help 

My conclusion is I neither hate nor love snails....haha


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

James, I don't think you need to do anything else for the plants in the tub. If they become very crowded some water movement from an air stone or powerhead would be helpful.

Let's think critcally about heaters. Most people are over-concerned about tank temperature. Unless you plan to keep certain fish species that require high temperatures (discus, for example), you may not need a heater at all. If you do use one, it doesn't need to be set higher than 75F/24C for the vast majority of "tropical" fish. 

Most common aquarium plants like slightly cooler temperature than that. One of the challenges of keeping a planted discus tank is finding plants that will do well at temperatures over 80F/27C. I once set up a Walstad display tank at my local fish store. The tank looked so good and was so easy to care for that the owner decided to keep discus in it. He turned the temperature up to 86F, and half of the plant species promptly died. Then the algae started!


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## Douglas Ingram (Apr 1, 2010)

About 2 years I collected some snails from the small river back of my place, then identified them as Great Pond Snails, the larger cousin to common pond snails. Once they started to reproduce I had a snail explosion, but then the population leveled off to what I prefer. This means that I have snails, they reproduce, but I don't have so many that it looks like a snail infestation.

Good luck with the big tank. I love big tanks. 30 gals are small tanks to me. As has been mentioned, getting enough plants initially is your biggest issue.


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## TonyVideo (Aug 11, 2010)

You mentioned in your first or second post you had an airstone. Do not use this in a Walstad tank. It will eliminate any CO2 you accumulate.


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## James Voza (Oct 23, 2012)

So for the walstad method tank you recommend no air stone. Without one will there be enough air in the tank for the fish? Should I place the power heads to face the surface to try and mix the air into the tank?


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

The levels of CO2 and O2 in the water are not directly related. You can have high levels of both, low levels of both, or different levels of both.

In Walstad tanks we rely on respiration of all the organisms in the tank to produce CO2. This obviously means the fish, but in Walstad tanks the largest contribution probably comes from microorganisms as they decompose dead organic matter. Strong aeration of any kind or agitation of the water surface can cause loss of this CO2 to the atmosphere.

So what we usually do is limit aeration and surface agitation, but maintain good water circulation with powerheads or filters. The rule of thumb is "smooth ripples on the surface are OK, but splashing or bubbling is not". For example, if you are using a HOB fitler, you would keep the water level high so that return flow from the filter falls smoothly into the tank without splashing or driving bubbles down into the water. If you are using a canister filter, the return flow would be placed just under the water's surface, not above it and especially not squirted through the air by a spray bar.

Retaining CO2 from respiration while keeping enough O2 in the water for fish and microorganisms is one of the balancing acts we all must do. In practice, this rarely requires any special attention unless something in the tank is seriously wrong. Examples would be gross over-stocking with fish, or very large amounts of decaying organic matter. If you've kept fish before you already know how to avoid those things.


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## James Voza (Oct 23, 2012)

I want to add photos but I'm having real trouble getting them on, is there a trick to it? I just want to show my progress so far.


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## K Randall (Nov 23, 2004)

NYREPS said:


> I agreed with totziens they are a pest to me once you have them it is so hard to get rid of them it took me so long to get rid of all of them but I finally did it I am snail free with all my tanks,they fight for food and poo alot just brings your nitrate up. If you need a clean up crew just get some cherry shirmp they are so much more fun to watch.


There are many reasons not to like snails, but bringing your nitrates up is not one of them. They can't MAKE nitrate... unless you are importing a nitrogen source in to the tank (i.e. feeding your fish) the snails have no access to it. If anything, they would tend to sequester the nitrogen in the substrate.


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## Luffy (Aug 23, 2012)

When I put photos up I usually use the Quick Reply option and here's how I do it.

1. Upload photos to facebook or other online photo website (flickr, myspace, whatever)
2. Once uploaded, right-click the photo and choose copy image address 
3. Go to Quick Reply on the thread and hit the little mountain button.
4. Paste the image address into the dialogue box.

That's the easiest way I've found. Good luck!


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Luffy, the method does not work for Flickr though. I have I have just tried it. Can't see the image at all. I have the code that looks like (assume the "\" does not exist...I am trying to force the code to be displayed here. I am not a good web developer):

\[IMG\]http://www.flickr.com/photos/totziens/8165051408/in/photostream\[/IMG\]

I just paste the URL link for now. I am getting annoyed posting photos in this forum


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## Luffy (Aug 23, 2012)

Huh... Flickr doesn't work; I tried too... Well, facebook does if you have one of those. It is a little hard to put photos up on this forum. Worse comes to worse, you can just make the link to your Flickr album :/ I was able to copy and paste your link into my browser and look at the photo.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Yup the link from Flickr on its own works. Therefore, I just posted the link to save all the trouble


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## James Voza (Oct 23, 2012)




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## James Voza (Oct 23, 2012)

https://mobile.twitter.com/jamesdsumner/media/grid?idx=0


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## James Voza (Oct 23, 2012)

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A7LCt0ICQAA6AAE.jpg:large

Starting to fill the tank, wow that's a lot of water. Just checking the seals will hold lol


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## James Voza (Oct 23, 2012)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/266490367841538049
Adding the soil. So strange adding dirt to fish tank, but great fun


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/266491289472753664
Adding some plants from my grow out tub, I'm finding it hard to get tall plants so I'm having to start small.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/266491992601661440
Topping the water up.

This is my first dirt tank and first massive tank. So don't hesitate to tell me if you think I'm doing something wrong. It's been running a couple of days now and everything is going well apart from the fact there seems to be a thin layer of what looks like algae on the surface. I have added one siamese fighting fish and he is doing very well. I've also ordered some apple snails and Malaysian snails and trumpet. I don't think I'll add anything else for a month or so.
The plants are really starting to grow quick. And it's only been 3 days. The water is still a little cloudy but hopefully it will clear up.
This is all so exciting and amazing to watch, love this hobbie. Just wish I'd started this years ago.


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## sandeepraghuvanshi (Feb 22, 2007)

Right click on the picture, copy image location, put it between








and you will get as below


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## James Voza (Oct 23, 2012)

imghttp://twitter.com/jamesdsumner/status/266491289472753664/photo/1/img


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

You'll need the square open brackets "[" and close brackets "]"


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## James Voza (Oct 23, 2012)




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## James Voza (Oct 23, 2012)

[imghttp://twitter.com/jamesdsumner/status/266491289472753664/photo/1/img]


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

[ IMG ]http://twitter.com/jamesdsumner/status/266491289472753664/photo/1[ /IMG ]

You're right, I also could not get the photo displayed with the code above without the space. I am not sure how Sandeep did it...I tried his method step by step but it failed


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## James Voza (Oct 23, 2012)




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## James Voza (Oct 23, 2012)

Ok it's been a couple of weeks now and everything is going great. Should I leave the filter on or is it competing with the plants? Bit hesitant to change anything as its all going so well. The plants are growing well and are full of color. There is alge growing on the glass but the snails are living it so I'm happy. Love this hobby, it's so peaceful and addictive. I was just into fish but now I'm loving all the different plants.
When I put the plants in I spread each plant species around the tank. It's my only regret, I should of planted same species together. Would it be ok to pull them up gently and re-plant them?
Thanks


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