# Dishonest Vendor!!!



## taekwondodo

I got the results of a disputed charge for a problem I had where an online aquatic plant vendor sent me dead fish and the wrong plants... (I had mentioned the whole incident earlier but the thread was removed because the vendor "contacted" the forum administrator - For this reason I will not mention the vendor in public) and billed me a fortune for it.

(readers digest version: I received several dead fish and common plants mislabled for what I ordered. Their service was poor and after several attempts to contact them both by phone and e-mail they never replied so I Called AMEX to dispute a portion of the charge...)​
I got the notice from Amex today - that they have reviewed the information and "it appears as though the charge is valid".

After I looked at the reasons (and attached paperwork) the online vendor stated the charge was valid, the online vendor _*FABRICATED *_ a "shipping invoive" and claimed that "replacement merchandise" had been sent - and included a copy of a "get rates" page from FedEx as "proof" that he sent something out from 85742, Arizona (i.e., not an actual shipping docket/invoice - just a quote from FedEx).

To be clear - this vendor *NEVER *sent me replacement merchandise (fact is, the "get rates" was dated in February - I finally got an e-mail in mid-march from the vendor asking why I disputed his charge).

I am just FLOORED :faint: that a vendor who's business thrives on word-of-mouth would be flat out perjurous with Amex and be THAT dishonest!!!

:mad2:	:mad2:	:mad2: :frusty:

rogar-Si

:deadhorse


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## Jason Baliban

Could you PM me with the vendor?

Thanks

jB


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## bathysphere

i would also like a pm with the venor's name please


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## John P.

Isn't it clear, LOL?


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## Gomer

please PM me the venders name as well. That sucks and don't want any of it.


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## Jason Baliban

John P. said:


> Isn't it clear, LOL?


It definately is a good hint. But as Ripley says from Aliens, ".....its the only way to be sure."

jB


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## taekwondodo

By the way - it occurred to me while writing to Amex to tell them about the false information this vendor provided...

Now, I'm not a lawyer, but Isn't sending false and misleading information (the vendor sending the forged documents to American Express) of a financial nature (i.e., a banking dispute) illegal and something called... trying to remember the term... oh yeah...

*MAIL FRAUD*

And isn't that really a Felonious Federal Offense punishable by several years in jail?

:usa2:

(and one of my favorite movie quotes - Steve Martin in Planes, Trains and Automobiles (as he's walking across the tarmak from the rental lot): "You're messing with the wrong guy!!!")


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## Gomer

thanks for the PM. As I expected.

This is the same vender that 
1) thought it was ok to send me wallichii in place of stellata
2) though that emerald eye rasboras were the same as micro rasboras
3) thought that corydorus hastatus=pygmaeus (sent both in the same bag)
4) thought tiger shrimp = ghost shrimp(?..forget what the mix up was exactly)
5) sent diseased fish that wiped out 2 of my tanks and another friends tank.


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## gnatster

This is the same vender that:

Threatened legal action against APC for allowing members to report honestly of experiences. 

I will be closely monitoring this thread and expect everyone to keep the discussion above board. I really don't want to have to edit, lock or have to remove the thread from the public eye.


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## Gomer

While I won't reveal the identity of the vender, I can tell you that that they are in Arizona. 

Now, arizona is a big state with lots of fish and plant places so who know which one I am refering to. If this AZ vender thinks I am refering directly to them, then they would have to have a guilty conscience. I just searched the Yellow pages and came up with 355 hits. There are bound to be more than one AZ plant/aquarium vender that does online business ..and very likely that there are more not listed.



NOTE: I am self flagging this post just in case it needs editing/deleting by a mod.


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## taekwondodo

gnatster said:


> This is the same vender that:
> 
> Threatened legal action against APC for allowing members to report honestly of experiences.
> 
> I will be closely monitoring this thread and expect everyone to keep the discussion above board. I really don't want to have to edit, lock or have to remove the thread from the public eye.


Was my initial thread the only one that was deleted? Or have they done this to other threads as well...

It's a darn shame that some people have no business sense. I mean they have a great website, great name, and could have a lot of potential as a leader in this business - but they have done nothing positive to promote themselves and continually antagonize their customers.

This was actually the third order in eight years that I had with them that didn't go well (the other two weren't terribly bad, no where near where this one went, but they were not good either) - but they had R. Macrandra so I figured I'd give em another college try (oh, and I'm still waiting on my R. Macrandra). Giving customers the shaft leads nowhere.

Scotty from Star Trek: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

- Jeff


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## fredyk

LOL good riddle. so it's not in FL


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## mrbelvedere138

What I do not understand is how AMERICA has become this country where it is NOT OK to say what you want. I understand libel and slander laws are there for a reason, but are very easily abused. This, however, is a cut and dry case of bad business practices and the reputation that certainly and inevitably follows. Should APC or PT forum ever come under legal assault, I would send as much money as possible to the defense fund.


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## Paul Higashikawa

Gentlemen, please PM me as well. Much appreciated!


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## Jason Baliban

The same vendor that....

-I ordered some aquascape tools from years ago. The tools were back ordered(no prob there). But after the 3 month of emailing them once a month to check on them, then rudely told me to stop emailing, they would be there when they were there.

-The same place that sent me an order that wasnt complete, then sent the second part to my old address from years before. Then when i called, the head guy was cursing at me and his employees for having to send a package for the 3rd time.

I have a complete account of the transactioin if anyone is interested.

jB


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## Gumby

You guys should all write to the Arizona BBB about this company. Or better yet, find someone who's got some money and start a class action suit :x


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## jeff63851

boy it sounds like a vendor I sould avoid. Can I get the vendor's name through PM? 

Thanks


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## freydo

i have an idea who this vendor is, but do you mind sending the name to me via PM as well?

thanks.


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## CrownMan

I too would appreciate the vendors name through email. I have purchased from 4 different online vendors and have had problems with 2 of them.

Thanks,

Mike


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## ranmasatome

some one pm me as well pls... very much appreciated..


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## oceanaqua

wow...been through the experience with the ??? vendor, the clues are a bit too obvious to know what vendors it is.


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## Dewmazz

jeff63851 said:


> boy it sounds like a vendor I should avoid. Can I get the vendor's name through PM?


Ditto please. I'm extremely cautious about buying online, and I'd really be disappointed if i received bad service on the few orders I make. Thanks.


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## niko

Can someone explain why is it ok to tell who the vendor is in a PM but not openly on the forum?

The comment of MrBelvedere makes me smirk. It is indeed sad.

--Nikolay


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## banderbe

mrbelvedere138 said:


> What I do not understand is how AMERICA has become this country where it is NOT OK to say what you want. I understand libel and slander laws are there for a reason, but are very easily abused. This, however, is a cut and dry case of bad business practices and the reputation that certainly and inevitably follows. Should APC or PT forum ever come under legal assault, I would send as much money as possible to the defense fund.


It never has been okay to say whatever you want.

Free speech has limits, as it should.

For freedom to mean anything, it must be limited. Total freedom is just anarchy by another name.


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## PMD1

Could you PM me with the vendor?

Thanks

PMD


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## Gonzofish

*Arizona vendor*

Hmm...sounds familiar. I live near this vendor and can tell you that NO ONE locally buys plants from them. He flat out refuses tours of the facility and makes it next to impossible to place a local order. Instead he offers for you pick up your order at some other appointed public location. A beat-up truck or the company van will finally pull up after you've been waiting for 30 minutes and someone will hand you a box. Onlookers must think we're dealing drugs. Aside from plants in horrible condition and laughable portions, shrimp and fish may also be near death when you get home.

I have friends who have worked there in the past, and nothing anyone is saying is uncommon. Essentially this business receives bulk orders from farms and ships the same stock out the next day. They tell me that the facility has very little permanent stock or plants actually "growing" there.

With the quality of hobbyist trades, it's surprising vendors like this still exist.


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## Firey Snow Meadow

I would also like a pm with this venders name too please


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## infrared

*Bad Vendor*

Hi..

Can you pm me the name of this vendor as well?

thanks..


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## Jason Baliban

Put this phrase into google, and hit "I'm feeling lucky"....



> Welcome to our unique plant nursery for aquarium plants, pond plants, algae-eating shrimp & fish, and other tropical plants.


Feel free to edit this mods if its too obvious.....

jB


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## jeff63851

thanks for the clue. Nobody e-mailed me the vendor name though.


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## Paul Higashikawa

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh!!!!!!!!!


Got it!

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh my god! THAT ONE??? 

Man, and to think I have heard some good things about them before. Also seem to recall a friend of mine ordered the pruning kits from them for me. They look and work very nicely~

Wow...............speechless. 

But then again, I guess it is like visiting a city. NYC, for instance. If you go the hood or ghetto, your impression of it would've been not so good. Conversely, if you went to all the nice and fancy areas, your opinions would've been positive. Restaurants are the same, I guess. A good service versus bad service on behalf of the waitstaff. 

I'm happy to say tonight my experience at this Japanese-Brazillian fusion restaurant has been very pleasant The service was top-notch. The foods were great. Everything was perfect, not to mention the waitresses


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## freydo

i totally had it wrong. wow.


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## Erirku

Can someone PM me too? I kinda know who it is, but I totally want to make sure! Thanks, Eirc.


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## Runawaypencil

Can I also get a PM on the vendor just for the heads up.


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## Dewmazz

I "searched" google. Thx for the heads up. I was considering ordering some snails from them. It's a purdy website tho .


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## Erirku

I thought it was that company!!!
I had a problem with them with my last order, and can't say I will ever order from them ever again. I know who to buy my stuff from now, and trust these other companies, because they have what it takes to sell items properly!


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## thumperinflorida

sad but true...it's easy to hide behind a screen of annominity. 
“A reputation once broken may possibly be repaired, but the world will always keep their eyes on the spot where the crack was.”


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## mrbelvedere138

banderbe said:


> It never has been okay to say whatever you want.
> 
> Free speech has limits, as it should.
> 
> For freedom to mean anything, it must be limited. Total freedom is just anarchy by another name.


I believe speech is one of those things that should be inherently anarchist. It is one of the very few things that shouldn't require regulation. It doesn't say in the first amendment "Congress shall make no law.....except when we do."


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## raven_wilde

Hmmmm... after reading all these comments about this place I do believe I will be removing the link to their site that I had submitted to Aquapalooza... they obviously don't deserve any help from us in getting web traffic! I actually had placed an order with these guys about two years ago... it all arrived okay and promptly, plants looked good, but the majority of them died within a month... granted, this was when I first started seriously keeping plants, so it is hard to say if this was my fault or the quality of the stock... who knows, regardless, I think I'll be removing that link I submitted... a shame they're so bad, their selection of shrimp has been mighty tempting.

- Crap, it looks like I can't delete that link... oh well, I changed the description quite a bit... it now has a certainly less 'glowing' recommendation... I definitly do not want to aid and abet a bad business operation!


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## random_alias

Well, word-of-mouth drives a lot of recommendations, stuff like, "Everyone says they're great!"

This often works well. Then there are times, like what you are describing, when we give businesses positive recommendations based on our own experiences. These are of course the most useful recommendations because each entry (that builds up to the quantitiy of positive or negative recommendations) is based on it's own experience. This makes them more valid than recommendations like, "Everyone says they're great!" because there's no photocopier effect, each case counts as 1 vote.

I've been having mixed feelings about this as well. I've been one of the few people giving AZ Gardens glowing recommendations (let's admit it, the cat's out of the bag and there's no difference between giving instructions that lead directly to their site and just naming them). I've always based those recommendations on my own good experience with them, having ordered plants 2 or 3 times and shrimp once or twice.

Until you've had the bad experience, it's difficult to change your opinion of a place that has done a good job for you. I'm not sure it's right for us to edit our opinions of a business based on the experiences of others while we ourselves have had nothing but good experience.

I'm not saying that everyone else is wrong. I'm sure they are very correct in what they are saying has happened to them. I'm also sure that if I continue to buy from AZ Gardens, odds are, I'll eventually get burned. But, I don't see how getting swept along in the current of popular opinion is beneficial to people wanting a complete impression of a business.

I'm not defending this business and I'm not trying to change the flow of the discussion. I'm just saying that people that have had good experiences should mention their experiences too, all too often this does not happen, and definitely should not let the experiences of others influence how they choose to make their own recommendations.

If a business has done well or poorly for you then you should say so. Let others voice their own personal experiences for themselves. 

It's far too easy for the good to get buried under the momentum of the bad.

Who am I going to buy my next plants/fish/inverts from? That's a good question. No vendor has a 100% reputation. I suppose I'll go with my experiences. I'm confident every single vendor out there will burn me if I give them all enough chances.


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## taekwondodo

People can complain about bad service all day long. It happens to everyone and everyone has a bad experience now and then - but fabricating a "replacement shipment" goes way above and beyond "poor customer service" or "poor product quality". 

This thread wasn't posted to discuss bad customer service...
Think about that instead.

- Jeff


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## Sully

Although I see Jeff's point, and he is sharing his experience, and the vendor's poor/shady handling of the situation. 

Random Alias has a great point. There are lots of threads that begin with a negative experience, and often strike a cord with others that have had poor experiences, so they post more so than the people who have good experiences. I'm not saying this vendor is completely trustworthy, especially in this case. But given enough times, there's always something to complain about even with the good vendors.

Good luck to you Jeff,

-SULLY


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