# Turface what?



## elmer (Sep 20, 2007)

People keep referring to Turface, which is a brand. I'd like to see if I can pick up some Turface near Toronto. _What exact product should I be looking for?_
I was looking here and there are several products.
http://www.plantprod.com/EN/catalogue/20Media.html

I have a 24" tank and would like to upgrade to a 36" tank, and thought I would revisit the substrate in the process, without too much additional expense. Currently the 24" has 1.5" red fluorite, that is all.

I have some peat moss that I could dust the bottom with.


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## multigirl08 (Apr 18, 2007)

Hi! I use the Turface MVP in a reddish/brown color. I like the way it looks, but would get a darker color in future. Maybe someday when I tear down the tank completely and restart. I went to the Turface website (www.turface.com) and emailed them. I was contacted that same day with a list of suppliers in my area. Hope this helps!


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Turface is not the best idea, it dissolves into mud and causes changes in water chemistry. You will have a better success with plain 2 - 4 mm silica sand.


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## CichPhreak (Feb 9, 2003)

Mud? Really? I've been doing a lot of reading on Turface and SMS (virtually the same), and a number of people love both kinds. Is this from first hand experience? Just curious as I just bought a bag to try in a tank.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Yes, I bought couple of bags some time ago from plantprod.com and had to take it out of my aquarium and dump it on outside sidewalk.


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## elmer (Sep 20, 2007)

Edward said:


> Yes, I bought couple of bags some time ago from plantprod.com and had to take it out of my aquarium and dump it on outside sidewalk.


Hi Edward, which type of Turface was it, how much did you rinse it, and how deep was your tank? Deep tanks compact substrates more...


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## Blacksunshine (Aug 11, 2006)

weird I have a sample bag of turface filled with water and turface and see no issue with it turning to mud. 
the two products you can use from their line up that are equivalent to SMS are Turface MVP (larger grain like flourite) And Pro choice (smaller grains like sms). 
I could see a muddy issue comming from turface quick Dry. that is a VERY fine grain product.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Just take a TDS tester or KH test kit, it does dissolve fast, especially with CO2 injection. I am talking about chemical reaction, not about visual effect.


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## Blacksunshine (Aug 11, 2006)

I think I will. is has been sitting wet for about a week. I'm sure it should show some differing hardness from the tap as it was when I put it in. This would be good to know since it looked to be a good alternative to sms. (sms is not very available in these parts)


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

You would need to use RO water or inject CO2 to see the reaction.


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## Blacksunshine (Aug 11, 2006)

So then what do you think would be the feasablity of using turface in a non CO2 injected tank that is filled with tap water?


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Sure, but not using CO2 limits your plant selection. 
In that case any gravel will do the job. Substrate is the last thing you should be concerned about, it's there to hold the plants down and look nice, that's it. With proper water column fertilization any substrate will do the job.


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## Blacksunshine (Aug 11, 2006)

I look at substrate the same way. I will keep this in mind if i wind up picking up the turface product. Have you seen these same results with SMS?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

There is a bit more to it than "... it’s there to hold the plants down and look nice, that’s it." Otherwise, ADA aquasoil would not be found to be so superior by so many people. I think having a nutrient rich substrate is desirable, but not necessary. My SM plus River silt is working better than SM alone ever did, even though I was able to grow plants well in just SM. Some day I will decide I can afford ADA aquasoil and try it myself!


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## elmer (Sep 20, 2007)

Well, I was planning to use some CO2 along with Excel, but I'll do some out-of-tank testing first.


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## Blacksunshine (Aug 11, 2006)

hoppycalif said:


> There is a bit more to it than "... it's there to hold the plants down and look nice, that's it." Otherwise, ADA aquasoil would not be found to be so superior by so many people. I think having a nutrient rich substrate is desirable, but not necessary. My SM plus River silt is working better than SM alone ever did, even though I was able to grow plants well in just SM. Some day I will decide I can afford ADA aquasoil and try it myself!


I think branding and misconception is more of a factor in ADA's product popularity.

From what I read the "nutrients" in Aqua soil are all used up pretty quickly. After that it really is just aesthetics.


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## C.ton (Nov 6, 2006)

not sure about the turface turning into mud, I have Turface mvp in two of my tanks, one has been setup for about a year the other is half a year with Co2 injection and so on.... i have not really seen any detriorating from it. Have long did you have the tank before it turned to into mud?

As for the substract not being as important, i find that somewhat false. I also have a tank with aquasoil and it has been setup for roughly a year, for the first half of the year i had co2 and dry fert and the plant was lush and green. Then when i got busy the co2 and fert completely stopped also water change dropped down from 50% everyweek to 50% every 2-3 weeks with RO water and the plants are still green and lush, of course not as much as before.

As for the Turface, you could go to the website and ask for a sample bag. A spokeman will call you and ask for your company, make something up and make it sound legit. I got a 50lb bag for free as a sample this way.

HTH


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## Blacksunshine (Aug 11, 2006)

C.ton said:


> As for the substract not being as important, i find that somewhat false. I also have a tank with aquasoil and it has been setup for roughly a year, for the first half of the year i had co2 and dry fert and the plant was lush and green. Then when i got busy the co2 and fert completely stopped also water change dropped down from 50% everyweek to 50% every 2-3 weeks with RO water and the plants are still green and lush, of course not as much as before.
> 
> As for the Turface, you could go to the website and ask for a sample bag. A spokeman will call you and ask for your company, make something up and make it sound legit. I got a 50lb bag for free as a sample this way.
> 
> HTH


just the oppisite I've had the same results with schultz. Great growth while I'm staying on top of maintenance. And steady but not as when I've slacked. 
I think this goes to show that the substrate ultimately has less to do with good growth then other factors in the tank.

You lucked out on the turface tho. they only sent me little 3oz baggies.


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## Dave Gomberg (Oct 18, 2007)

I have had a stable Turface only tank for about 10 years (since it took an honorable mention) in the first AGA contest. It is now over-run by crypts.


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## elmer (Sep 20, 2007)

Well, I put some in a bucket and ran a HOB filter on it for a couple days. The water went from (in dH) kH=10, GH=15 to kH=0, GH=7.

I am very interested in the person who said that they put coral in their filter for a while but were then able to take it out. Why would that be?

Did the high CEC of this material enable it to suck all the dissolved solids that contribute to kH/GH out of the water? And then the coral replaced it until the Turface was saturated in this sense?

I am trying to decide whether to use this or throw it out. I want to keep a stable kH over 4 and GH over 10 (and pH over 7) without too much fiddling


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## elmer (Sep 20, 2007)

Oh well, I don't think I'll risk it. I'm going to do a test with some construction sand now.


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

Dave Gomberg said:


> I have had a stable Turface only tank for about 10 years (since it took an honorable mention) in the first AGA contest. It is now over-run by crypts.


What brand of turface is that?


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## elmer (Sep 20, 2007)

Just an update. In the end, I went with layers of Onyx Sand, Turface MVP, Flourite. (with some exposed sand areas)
So far the pH is .2 higher, and the kH and GH are unchanged, vs. Flourite-only.

The construction sand I found was alkaline, so I saw no reason to use it other than cost.


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