# MTS - is Dolmite Lime ok & other Q's



## Stew_822 (Dec 1, 2012)

Hi all,

I sent Dad out to bunnings with a list of things to buy - he came back with Dolmite Lime (says it's a calcium carbonate & magnesium carbonate), which apparently is the wrong product. I read somewhere that it dissolves too quickly.

Is this a major issue? I'm setting up my tank on pocket money and can't afford too many errors. Could I put extra in to compensate, or will this raise the pH too much? (am planning on keeping a low-ish pH, 6.5-7 with soft water - I use rainwater). 

The plan is to put in a very small sprinkle of "Organic Fertiliser" (contains blood and bone and some potassium), a sprinkling of dolmite, the mineralised topsoil mixed with 5%-ish clay (about 2-3cm hopefully) and then 4-5cm of fine-grained inert sand. I'm skipping the muriate of potash as I plan on dosing nutrients in the future anyway - if I buy it in the future, can I dose it direct to the water column?

Does that sound all right? 

On the back of this bag of dolmite lime, it has an addvertisement for "Iron Sulfate". Could I skip the clay and add this to my MTS to get near the same effect? Which way would be cheaper? (always trying to save a dollar ) The iron sulfate apparently lowers pH - this could counteract adding extra dolmite? 

Thanks for any help,
Stewart

edit: oh, and how do I tell when I've finished washing/cleaning my soil? I dug it up from the ground a few days before and have washed it, then laid it on a tarp. I'm waiting for it to try but it's rained a bit, so it's staying moist. I figure this is good for bacteria development? When it's fully dry I plan on sifting it, then giving it a good wash, then leaving it on the tarp for a week or so, spraying it with water to keep it moist. Does this sound like a reasonable plan? Or would you keep washing it every few days then lying it on the tarp after I've sifted it?

another edit: I'm keeping kuhli loaches - they won't mess up the substrate by digging, will they?


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## Flear (Sep 29, 2012)

i've only got what i've heard.
what i've heard calcium carbonate does disolve, but very slowly., ... very very slowly
from other forums, ... 3" of sugar-fine has a half-life of about 18-24 months (reference to reef tanks), the size is specific to that half-life, ... so about 2 years down the road if your not topping up your reef tank substrate you'll have about 1.5"
i consider that "very" slow.

magnesium carbonate, sounds like it dissolves faster, but i've no idea what that means

as for "dolomite lime", so long as your comfortable with the PH that will give your tank (i think it's going to be around 8 (maybe higher - i honestly dono)

if your after a high plant nutrient substrate, i'd suggest another forum
http://www.aquaticplantenthusiasts.com/substrate/4256-new-recipe-procedure-mineralized-topsoil.html
with added CO2 & high light intensity, the guy who started the thread found it took about 6mo. before he noticed a potassium deficiency, he estimated it could run for about 2 years normally without adding any fertilizers or dosing the water column
one of the people who joined and took up the experiment themselves noticed it took about 2 weeks to do the initial ammonia/nitrate cycle
the originator of the thread is still running it to gain farther details before he posts his findings.

it goes into detail about what was picked for nutrients and explains why in fair detail.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

That is indeed the wrong dolomite and a common mistake. The dolomite you're after is typically only sold in aquarium stores by Estes. 

I sent you a PM.


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## Stew_822 (Dec 1, 2012)

Hi Flear,

Thanks for your response. I've seen that thread but I figured buying all of the ingredients would be fairly expensive. How much do you think it would cost to do a 6ft tank? (wild guesses are expected and appreciated ).

The pH is what I was worried about, but I figured the other (proper) dolmite would raise it to the same level, or am I incorrect here? In either case, wouldn't dissolving organic matter and driftwood counteract the effect and hopefully make it sit at 7-ish, especially if I put it under the topsoil and sand (which is a total of like 8 centimeters which the dolomite has to get through before it impacts the water column).



AaronT said:


> That is indeed the wrong dolomite and a common mistake. The dolomite you're after is typically only sold in aquarium stores by Estes.
> 
> I sent you a PM.


Hi Aaron, thanks for your response and PM - I've replied but sadly can't accept your offer. I'm curious - why is this dolomite the wrong stuff? What's the difference? One might dissolve faster than the other, but if there's not too much of a difference then I would be happy with this - unless it will severely limit the lifespan of the substrate?

I'm also wondering about your thoughts on the Iron Sulfate to replace the clay. I realise I might miss out on some micronutrients but to be honest, I'm just after nice plant growth. I'm going with a low maintenance, low light supplemented with daylight setup. I don't need to trim every week. I figure the soil will contain some of the micronutrients too. Would this stuff be suitable for my needs, or should I stick with the tried and tested method (considering I don't have enough resources to screw up too many times)?

I'd also like to pick your brain on the use of the Organic Fertiliser. This will probably create algae issues for a little while, if what I've read is to be believed, but with the calcium + phosphate additives I figure it's worth a shot. Would you disagree? Is it worth it?

What do you think about using aragonite, coral sand or marble chips instead of the dolomite?

Thanks for your time and thoughts,
Stewart


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

I used coral sand in an aquarium that was intended for Rift Lake fish. 
I used Turface as the main substrate. Turface removes the carbonates from the water. 
By adding coral sand I hoped to off set this, and keep the KH in the water stable.
It did. 
I used roughly 50/50 which is way more than you would want in a soft water tank.
The results lasted a long time. I finally moved the tank, and set it up with the same substrate, and it is still maintaining the KH and GH. (GH was not a problem). 

The hardness and pH are suitable for Lake Tanganyika, even though Turface removes carbonates from the water, it does not when there are enough carbonates in the substrate. 

I am not saying it WILL work, I am saying coral sand is a long lasting source of minerals. Might work out just fine, but it is a one way thing: If you do not like the results you cannot un-mix the coral sand. 

You could try a small sample, perhaps in a bucket. Maybe 1/8 coral sand 7/8 soil?


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

Dolomitic lime is limestone with dolomite in it. The stuff I've used is just the mineral dolomite and takes a lot longer to break down and won't add extra KH.


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## Stew_822 (Dec 1, 2012)

Hi Diana,

Thanks for that information. Coral sand is now on the "to buy" list if it isn't too expensive. I'm going to try some marble chips too as they dissolve very, very slowly. 

Thanks for your help everyone. I now know that the lime is no good anyway - I tested some in a jar with water and within the hour the pH had risen (from 6.5-ish with no KH) to 7.6+ (looked like eight to me, but my test kit doesn't go that high). 

Cheers,
Stewart


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## Flear (Sep 29, 2012)

stew, why do you want each ingredient ?

personaly i'd stick with stuff that disolves as slowly as possible.

most things have their own PH and will try to adjust the water accordingly, some in your favor, others against your desired PH, and some to counter those that are throwing your PH off.

if you know what each thing is your adding and why, it's easier to find alternatives, and easier to find cheaper alternatives.

myself, i found pool filter sand to be a very cheap perfect sand, consistant grain size, does not compact, very cheap. best of everything, ... zero nutrients for plants, ... best of almost everything.

if you want calcium, argonite, crushed coral (same thing), and i was told oolite, which is also has a very round grain, ... these will all raise your ph and slowly (very slowly) dissolve.

dianna had mentioned in one of her posts, baking soda for raising calcium as well, was news to me, haven't use it, but i'm not going to forget it.

other reading i've come across concerning the nitrate cycle, 7.5-8.5 ph, the bacteria responsible for nitrfication function best. ph of 6 and they no longer function at all. (news to me)

it's become a tricky mix of PH, Gh, Kh, to deal with things. ... but this could just as easily go counter to what fish you want, or what plants, ... stick with the fish and plants to decide what you want in your tank.

---

the costs for the EHS (enhanced humus solution) i don't know, google & amazon are your friend 

organic soils with their fertalizers were avoided in the mix due to ... they normaly use chicken and/or cow manuer, then there's urine in the mix.

that sounds bad, but from another forum (i should search for updates), one guy literally used dog poop and a bunch of other composting materials, 6mo his shrimp and fish and plants are doing great.

back to the EHS mix, he explained why he was using each ingredient and what it replaced and why he avoided those replaced ingredients, ... it's been awhile, i forget all the reasoning, i remember there was a concern about salts in the mix.

Stew, all i've got to help is what i've found in reading and research. others on here will have experience. ... if what i've found is better, i can't personaly vouch for it due to lack of experience with it.


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## Stew_822 (Dec 1, 2012)

I'd like the soil because it is free and naturally contains micro/macro nutrients. 

The crushed coral/dolomite/marble chips is to help keep the pH stable - our water has virtually no kh which makes the pH fluctuate easily. These buffers help prevent this and also helpt prevent the substrate from going anaerobic (I think that's the right word - acidic and lacking in oxygen is what I mean). If it were to go anaerobic bacteria grow which would convert nitrate into ammonia gas(?) which as far as I know is undesirable. 

The clay/laterite etc. is to provide a long lasting source of iron for the plants.

The fish I'd like prefer soft, acidic water - that's why I came here asking why dolomite lime was no good. Turns out it dissolves faaar too quickly to be of any use - I would imagine if I used it, my tank would have a pH of 8.2, whereas if I used marble chips, the tank would sit somewhere around seven, as the marble chips dissolve far, far slower. 

Aragonite is a little different to crushed coral (or so I'm told) as it contains some dolomite and can raise the pH to 8.2 whereas calcite (which is the buffering agent of coral, I think) raises it to 7.6. 

I didn't know about the urine/poo, thanks for that. I just dug up some dirt form our property xD

I appreciate your help. The EHS mix does sound good, but I'm a bit wary of it because of the lack of (numerous) trials and the potential cost involved.

I should do a write up for the layman of all of this information I'm learning one day.

Cheers,
Stewart


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