# I Need The Most Blunt Best Aquascaping People To Critique This



## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

well i want an awesome tank that sits next to my bed and to be able to share with everyone i know. the thing is i dont think the tank is looking that great and im sure you think that too, but i want You to critique this and be so blunt and let me know what i should do different. the only thing is i really like the anubias in the tank but if u think i should get rid of it i would consider it. also if u make a plant recommendation u better have it on hand cuz i prob will ask u to send me some depending if im loving the idea.LOL

the tank has 3 x 28 wpg of t5 over it. its a 28 gallon bow front and its el natural like with soil and dosing excel till i decide if i want to do the whole diy thing. anywho these plants are doing very well and except the frill which im okay if it goes, infact i really want something else okay here we go.

































SORRY FOR THE BAD PICS HOPE U CAN STILL HELP


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Ah 28 gal bowfront; got one myself.

You've got healthy plants; they're alive and they aren't showing severe deficiency or getting choked by algae. Don't kid yourself, that's a lot to accomplish. It may seem common on these forums, but if you take a step out into the world of other aquarium related hobbyists; what you've done is something that many can't. A decent number are outright intimidated by the prospects of healthy growth and density.

What your tank is lacking, to me, is composition. Your foreground is separated in a straight line from the rest, the rocks all set another horizontal line from their tops, and the highest plants set another line across the tank as a boundary.

As formulaic as it is (and perhaps ideal for this reason; it's a natural evolution of the tank), I think you can easily take the next step by putting a dent into the center. Draw the eye into the tank by receding the line at the edge of your foreground area, bury your central rocks a bit and push them back, build up the plants in the corner, and keep the ones in the center shorter. Essentially, take the time with that tank to play with the perception of depth and the concept of a vanishing point. Pull the observer into your tank. You can do this without having to brutally rescape everything, but it seems like a logical next step.


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## peanutbowl (Mar 25, 2009)

I like your style on this. I think Phil is on to something. Maybe bring the two rocks together in the front and have the anubias coming up behind. you could make this cool little world down in front when the HC fills in. And I would like to see the stems behind all that stagger more and fill in.:fish2:


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## GlitcH (Aug 21, 2006)

Yep, take Dan's advice an run with it Brat.
How old is this tank? 
I'm sure at least the rocks are new. 
And that's not HC in front right?........what is that called? I think I tried that plant years ago.


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## geeks_15 (Dec 9, 2006)

I also agree with Dan's comments and you are already achieving a lot. I have some additional suggestions.

I don't like the white rocks on the black substrate. The contrast makes the rocks "pop" and I prefer the plants and/or fish to pop. I would get darker rocks and partially bury them. You can create an aged look on the rocks and driftwood with some java fern or even just a little algae build up which will give them a more natural look.

Another suggestion is to get more of the plants you already have. If you are patient you can just wait for them to grow out and replant trimmings etc. I'm not patient, so I like to buy a bunch of the same type of plant and cram them in there.

For a more natural look you could even lose a couple species and focus on 3 or 4. For a more dutch style I'd say you're on the right track.

I also like to have a focal point. Creating a focal point is one of the harder things for me to plan in my head so I often adjust after I try things. Consider color, leave shape, height, etc. For example, maybe you want the anubias to be the focal point (that is what I would say is the focal point you have created). It is slightly off center (done). Put rocks or driftwood or a short foreground plant in front of it to cover the stems and rhizome (to put the focus on the upper stems and leaves) (done). Plant a species behind it that will create contrast to put the focus on the anubias. You could put some hygrophila difformis behind and the light green of the hygro will be a contrast to the darker leaves of the anubias and make the anubias stand out (I think this could help and it doesn't have to be hygro difformis. Many plants would work toward the same goal). If you have a wall of one type of contrast plant behind the anubias it draws the eye to the focal point (anubias), but if you have multiple different plants behind the anubias you lose some of the umph of the focal point. The focal point can be lots of things, a favorite plant, a big plant, a red plant, or even stones or wood.

This is a good article that discusses some of what I've described here and more.
http://freshaquarium.about.com/library/weekly/aa122203a.htm

Hope that helps.


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## MoonFish (Feb 12, 2006)

It's your tank so you gotta like it. 

I'd put some background on it. I think wires are distracting. 

It sounds like you have enough light that things should be growing fast? CO2? You should be able to trim those stems back to whatever shape you want and maybe have fewer of them on the RH side. They should grow crazy fast and let you scale back to some slower growing stuff.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

wow what great things to read!!! thanks for the advice everyone. i like the idea of a vanishing point and the idea of getting rid of those rocks.

first question would be for jeremey,

u say go with a darker rock. what color? pet pupplies plus has theys very porous black tufa looking rocks but they are very light? i was thinking them because they would create shadows.

also the 'wall' u talk about behind the anubias. does it have to be green or could i use maybe a valsneria? a red plant? or would the red plant be to distracting?

*Dan*,

u make some good point in all this and i reall like the idea of building up the corners and making them not so dense to the back but would this take away from my centerpiece driftwood? i was thinking of keeping the hydro on the right and doing maybe 2 good amount of plants on the left with a hint of the red plant in the back? should i use the red plant?

anymore advice would be great everyone!


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

so i totally found out what rocks im going to use after looking at a journal tonight when i couldnt sleep. im going to use lace rock as it will help keep my ph stable and its darker and makes it look more natural. so excited. i plan to attach some mosses and ferns to it as well and minimize my amount of plants to help keep it forest like.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Good move to get darker rocks. The white is just such a high contrast. Will your new rock have different heights? That would be nice. 

I also think varying the line or your plants is a good idea. You need to make it look like some plants are set in farther and some set out farther. That will give you greater depth and interest. 

I like your anubias. It's the focal point and that's fine. Can you go from dark green to lighter and then to lighter reds to darker ending in your nymphea? Of course it's nice now. Just trying to tweak it a bit. Great healthy plants you have there. I don't see any algae either. Good job.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

bratyboy2 said:


> *Dan*,
> 
> u make some good point in all this and i reall like the idea of building up the corners and making them not so dense to the back but would this take away from my centerpiece driftwood? i was thinking of keeping the hydro on the right and doing maybe 2 good amount of plants on the left with a hint of the red plant in the back? should i use the red plant?


You don't need to worry about the wood. If anything I'd keep it just the way it is; it's a nice looking part of the tank. Instead maybe set the vanishing point off-center; the notch just to the right of your driftwood looks like a good place to develop that dip further. You can even cover the vanishing point so long as the lines around it suggest that the vanishing point is there very strongly. What ever you put in the way of this point is where the eye is going to be drawn to first.

Red plants in the back are a good idea. Amano recommends it as the perfect place for red plants in terms of aesthetic appeal, and I tend to agree that it works visually. It's a rule that can be broken, but doing that is something that takes a good bit more effort usually.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

well i have a few plants from 2 members coming. 
L.Aromatic
Blyxa
and sunset hydro something im not sure i will be useing in the scape.
also some Vals nana
and some rotala green.

im headed out to the store to look for more lace rock. and maybe pic some rotala indica up u know the fake stuff lol i like the colors of the tips.

i kinda got a forest idea in mind but i may need to fins some more fissidens? i got some now but what a slow grower


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## geeks_15 (Dec 9, 2006)

> also the 'wall' u talk about behind the anubias. does it have to be green or could i use maybe a valsneria? a red plant? or would the red plant be to distracting?


I think most any plant would work in the background. The only thing to avoid is something too similar to the anubias, if you want the anubias to be the focal point and not fade into the background.

I think a red background plant could be cool. It is just hard to get red plants to grow well (at least is has been for me).


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

i have in there now L.Arcuata and it grows like a weed. so that might be a possibility idk yet. im kinda rethinking the anubias as the focal point. idk yet either lol


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

I prefer heavier branches of driftwood. Taller, thicker stems. Gotta be in balance with the size of the tank, of course, but the wood you have looks a bit too thin, IMO.


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## The old man (Apr 12, 2008)

Anubias are great plants if you can keep the algae off of them.
The higher the light the more leaves they produce. You may want to try some Anubia nana "petite". Good small leaf contrast to the regular nana to fill in with.


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## theblondskeleton (Nov 22, 2008)

I agree about the lace rock  I have a bunch in mine, and I love the texture and the color. I also agree with The Old Man about the anubias petite. It would really accent the larger anubias well.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

well i do have some in another tank and didnt know what to do with it and i thought about using them in the tank. so i might just do that. im going to play with the tank tonight so i will let u see what i do tomorrow. lace rock might take a few days to get all together


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

oka well i broke a big rock and here is what i came up with and just a few other fun pics lol

before....









after....









and for fun....


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Boy what a difference! Major improvement. Good job!


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Great job on the rescape. Definitely more of a sense of depth.

Once you've got your foreground working a bit better you may consider leaving the area left of the rock with just ground cover. Sometimes tanks can look better without both corners filled, and the left part of your tank does look good without being "supported" by plants pushing into the back corner and around it.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

THANKS GUYS FOR THE COMMENT! Im finally getting the idea of this thing. 
_*Philosophos*_,
I think the tank may feel off balance if i dont have the left side planted.Im planning on rotala 'green' for behind it. i kinda think the tank looks like an island with a volcano in the center lol. instead of the plants to fill in the foreground i was thinking maybe some sand. unless u think other wise then i might switch out the plants for maybe HC if i can sind a good amount for cheap. also i want to age the rocks a bit more with some mosses and im thinking i want weeping moss. i need to good sized anubias nana, blyxa, rotala 'green', and a good strong foreground and i think im going to be in GREAT shape then. :usa2:

Well the tank has cleared up over night and i wanted to show u the things i redid because i didnt like it. so here we go:opcorn:

Added more anubias nana 'petite' to the rock 









Switched out the regular java fern to 'windelov' java fern. i think this looks better and opens the path more.









added some more 'petite' by the nana and barteri bases









not much of a difference but if u see it ur going to c what i mean

before>









after>


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

I like the updates. It needs some filling in, but looks good.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Ya, some rotala would work well if you're going to fill it in. Fine leaf and green, not too tall; it won't impose on the rock you've got there.

Sand would look good, but make sure you retain it well. If it mixes with your existing substrate it'll just sink right down. If you're headed that way, you might as well create a bit of a substrate slope while you're at it; high in the back, low in the front. Maybe raise the sand up around the "islands" a bit.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

yah thats what i planned to do. i was thinking of vals nana but im sure that would look weird. 

im so excited for this tank that i just want to wave a wand and make it grow all the way in. lol not going to happen though unless i get into the next harry potter movie


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## theblondskeleton (Nov 22, 2008)

Looks excellent! Much better depth, and I love the windelov!


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

Thanks Blond! just a weird question but is the depth the way i positioned the rocks?

anywho im going to be putting up a trade or sale list up this week so maybe i can get some of the plants i want quicker.

*question*
do u think i could use that non altering marine/freshwater sand from pet supplies plus? i want the white stuff.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

bratyboy2 said:


> *question*
> do u think i could use that non altering marine/freshwater sand from pet supplies plus? i want the white stuff.


?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

????????????????????????????????/hello?


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

whatever i give up on all u guys cant get anyone to answer my question!


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## berniekooi (Jan 26, 2009)

couldn't you just put pool filter sand in there? I've thought about doing that because that is what others have recommended to me. Its cheap and it doesn't compact like regular sand so it is somewhat loose. Hope this helps.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

berniekooi yes that is what i usually use in my tanks but the problem is u and i have a winter here in ohio and the pool stores dont sell it when we need it lol unless u want to drive and u can give me some? haha


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## berniekooi (Jan 26, 2009)

I was told that you can get this stuff at Home Depot or Lowes. I am headed to Home Depot tomorrow morning to get some more materials to finish off my canopy so I can check if they have it or not.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

cool thanks if anything i can call mine. knowing them they wont but if they do shoot!!!! i pumped


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## AquaLTU (Nov 17, 2009)

dude a little luck to you with the aquarium maybe can not handle all the processing.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

AquaLTU said:


> dude a little luck to you with the aquarium maybe can not handle all the processing.


???????????????????????????????????????????????


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

okay well im taking the hydro out and im going to replace it with rotala green put some rotala green behind the rock and plant some blyxa foreground will be sand i think


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## berniekooi (Jan 26, 2009)

Hey I went to HD and completely forgot to check, sorry about that. I was too busy thinking about how to construct our console for our xbox, wii, bluray and dvr and what materials to use that it just slipped by me. I saw someone had some sand for sale on here for $21 shipped. Perhaps that could work. Have you called your HD regarding the sand? You never know.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

i called lowes and HD and they are out some one recommended this other sand but idk is i want to use it. im going to check ace


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

okay im bitter for crap weather!!! i called everywhere to get pool filter sand and try to look for other sand. i guess im going to be out of luck for a sand foreground


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

okay well i got an amazing RAOK from a once Ohioan. they sent me so many plants that i had to put tons in separate tanks. the tank is cloudy right now and i have just one more plant to addand im set oh and that sand im still looking into. so here are some pictures!!!


















i removed the rock from the right and the hydo re placed it with the following RAOK plants:
Lindernia rotundifolia 'Variegated' 
Myriophyllum aquaticum
Blyxa japonica

then for the left i put in my other RAOK plants
Blyxa japonica
Limnophila aromatica

im not sure if im loving it completly yet but we will see what it looks like when the water clears up and it gets some shape to it. meaning the plants retain there shape.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

As far as the plants go, this is certainly heading in the right direction. My only critique would concern the fish......... there are way too many species for a tank of this size and the angel is a poor tankmate for small tetras.

Cardinals look nice, but they don't really school well and by themselves they can be quite shy. I think a single large group of colorful midwater shoaling or schooling fish would be best, complimented by one or two top-dwelling or bottom-dwelling specimens.

You might argue that this has nothing to do with aquascaping, but it is rather important to the overall "feel" of the aquarium. When I look at your tank it just screams harlequin rasboras to me.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

BryceM said:


> As far as the plants go, this is certainly heading in the right direction. My only critique would concern the fish......... there are way too many species for a tank of this size and the angel is a poor tankmate for small tetras.
> 
> Cardinals look nice, but they don't really school well and by themselves they can be quite shy. I think a single large group of colorful midwater shoaling or schooling fish would be best, complimented by one or two top-dwelling or bottom-dwelling specimens.
> 
> You might argue that this has nothing to do with aquascaping, but it is rather important to the overall "feel" of the aquarium. When I look at your tank it just screams harlequin rasboras to me.


lol i totally agree bout the harlequin rasboras. i was thinking bout them. i plan to take the angel out and maybe the cardinals but i love them so much. i was also thinking maybe some black neon or lemon tetras since they are subdued in color and would not take away from the plants. i really want to keep the rainbows.

the stocking list would be probably

5 rainbows ( unknown got them at a fish auction cheep)
2 rams
bristlenose
5 otos
and then the mid schooler(s)

still thinking maybe i will take a poll on this one.

black neons
lemon tetras
harlequin rasboras
cardinal tetras
neon tetras

your pick?


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

bump there are new pics on the last page!!!!

and a question over here!


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## JeffyFunk (Apr 6, 2006)

I like Rainbow fish in medium to large(r) planted tanks for several reasons. First of all, they're colorful and you have a choice of several colors. Second of all, they are potentially long lived (which is always a good thing IMHO). Thirdly, they're not shy. Too often I find that small fish such as tetras are just so darn shy that you never see them! I find that I rarely have to worry about that with Rainbow's... Finally, I'd also say that they are good community fish in such that they can bring out the best in some of the more timid fish (i.e. tetras) and not harass them. 

As for which tetra you should get, that's your decision. I tend to personally dislike fish with red eyes so that eliminates the lemon tetras. Even though the Black neon tetras have red eyes, I personally love them (cause they're steeler fans!) but think they look best in stark iwagumi tanks since they aren't the most colorful fish... In tanks that have lots of colorful plants, such as your own, I think neons or cardinals are good. Which one is better is a matter of personal taste and / or budget.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

well i was told by bryce that that the cardinals are not what the tank looks like what it needs. i kinda agree but at the same time i really like how showy they are. they r not shy they stay out and about and they spread there color throughout the tank. im counting the black neons out after reading something about mixing them with shrimp and they will eat them so they are not an option

lemons were an idea and i think they might compliment the tank but at the same time i think not. 
harlequins are nice but i like the epsei ( the other one) 

maybe orange von rio tetras

i really dont know. the rainbows will be moved and the angelfish. other then that im keeping the cardinals the rams BN and otos. and cherry shrimp. we will see what i add later on


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## fishnvw (Nov 12, 2009)

Hey braty I would caution against putting rams with shrimp of anykind (not the big bamboo ones those are fine). I have been looking for about 4 or 5 months for dwarf cichlids that are ok with shrimp. Everything I have heard (pertaining to rams) says they never paid mind to the shrimp untill one day....... Then I relized that every dwarf or regular cichlid has inverts in there description for food in the wild. I'm not saying it won't work just that I would caution against it. I'm sure there are people who have dwarfs with shrimp. But from what I hear from the first time a cichlid finds that shrimp taste good there's no turning back. Just something to think about. 

Oh and nice tank by the way its looking good and nice to see the progresion.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

as of now they are fine im not to concerned i do have a separate tank full of cherries now so if i loose the few then i got back up lol.

thanks for the compliment! i have not been home to see the tank cleared up yet and to see what it really looks like. im so excited!!!! 

the fish are the killer point right now. i cant choose


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## The Rockster (Jun 20, 2007)

geeks_15 said:


> This is a good article that discusses some of what I've described here and more.
> http://freshaquarium.about.com/library/weekly/aa122203a.htm


Hi,

I would follow this link, and use the formula for tank layouts. It's easy and spot on!

Good Luck


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

didnt really help much on the fish part and thats what we are hitting on right now. im getting some rotala mac. green routundofoila, and maybe wallachii. so we will see where it will go. prob on the right side and i will remove the ludwigia on the left. and i dont know bout that aromatic now. again we will see though.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

okay well i moved some things around and then trims some of the stuff cuz it was huge to begin with. so here are some new pictures.

this is kinda my favorite pic cuz its the only ludwigia i can grow well lol dont know what kind it is but maybe i will get it to bloom and see.









this is one of the shrimp i have just a red cherry shrimp. found out they have been breeding!!! yay lol free food!









and for the full tank view! i think it looks great right now. we will see how the blyxa holds up. im getting some shedding but i took that stem out and i think it was because to much flow on it. we will see. if it doesnt then im going to replace it with SAGITTARIA SUBULATA









still looking into fish. going searching tomorrow. might come home with something lol


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

bratyboy2 said:


> okay well i moved some things around and then trims some of the stuff cuz it was huge to begin with. so here are some new pictures.
> 
> this is kinda my favorite pic cuz its the only ludwigia i can grow well lol dont know what kind it is but maybe i will get it to bloom and see.
> 
> ...


okay after looking on liveaquaria.com i made a list of fish that i think would fit in the tank and work great with it. lets see what you all think:

sparkeling gourami
marble hatchet fish
yo yo loach
chilli rasbora
Peacock Gudgeon 
blue rams
oto cats
Harlequin Rasbora 
Threadfin Rainbow 
Praecox Rainbow

cherry shrimp


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

u guys are freaking killing me here


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## GlitcH (Aug 21, 2006)

bratyboy2 said:


> u guys are freaking killing me here


lol ya four hours without a reply, you must be dyin inside. 









I think it looks great!

The only thing I would change would be the scissors......put them on the other side and maybe put the ring on the cutty part.

Otherwise.........NAILED IT! :twitch: :tape2: [smilie=l:


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

wow thanks lol


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

You know, if your cardinals will stay out like they are in the latest photo, they really look very nice. I have nothing against them, just that one or two species in a tank that size is usually plenty. I love angels, but they really need a different type of setup better suited to their eventual needs. They aren't really community fish IME.

Marble hatchets are fantastic fish but you absolutely need a perfect cover. Mine have found their way to the floor through impossibly small openings.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

well i went to the pet store and i was looking and i have come to my final stocking list.

im going to do 
7 threadfin rainbow fish
3 yoyo loaches
3 sparkling gouramis
and maybe the school of microrasboras im thinking not thought since they are so shy. maybe the school of cardinals will stay or i will go with harlequin rasboras. thinking either school will be bout 8 each.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

any input?


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## geeks_15 (Dec 9, 2006)

The sparkling gouramis are typically shy and are slow swimmers. You'll need to pay attention and make sure they get some food during feeding time. Fish like cardinals and the threadfins can eat it all before the gouramis get any. They are often considered a species tank type of fish for these reasons.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

they always keep them with the treadfins at the store. i asked them to feed them and they were very active and moved quick to get food


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

*Bratyboys~28 gallon bow update. monday jan. 18 2010*

well here they are. kinda still bare bones. i did a huge trim but since then the Myro got huge and i didnt trim it yet. on top of that this might be the last time you see the tank like this. im planning to rescape it within the next couple weeks but i will keep this going for the time. let me know what u think. not like its going to really matter much if it i rescape it lol but here are your pics










my last ram. he is so pretty!


























algae growth on rock









FTS sorry cell phone pic


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

this is what the tank will soon look like
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dLSVgS5AxBI/SLz6ptTvdsI/AAAAAAAAMkU/PphiaP1MQUI/s400/Amanoaquascape.jpg


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

I can _*never*_ get my moss trained to look like that on my driftwood. No matter how I tied or trim it, I always end up with something looking like Bob Marley with a bad haircut. If you ever figure out the secret, spread the word!


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

the branch i have in the tank now is just java moss and all i do is trim it to what height and bush i want it and scoop out the rest. and thats using craft scissors.

pluss thats either willow or taiwan moss that amano uses so it grows different.


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