# Need advice on upgrade to a dSLR



## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

I am thinking about upgrading to a dSLR and would really love to here you thoughts, experiences and opinions. I do not know a lot about this subject but I have been doing some research (as much as my slow dial-up will allow). Basically, I have narrowed down my choices to:
1) Canon Rebel XT (EOS 350D) 8MP with a 18-55mm lens
2) Nikon D40 6.1MP with 18-55 lens
3) Olympus EVolt 500 8MP with 14-45mm and 40-150mm lenses

All 3 of these with the necessary accessories will be about $600 which is the approximate limit to my budget at this time. I will certainly want to add to whatever system I get in the future with better flash and different lenses. I am not looking at this camera as a temporary thing but rather as something I will have and use always (unless I get rich and really love the digital hobby). Aside from the ongoing battle of what brand is better, any comments? 

I have tons of questions also:
- Will the standard kit lens, the 18-55 or 14-45 be suitable for Aquarium photography, such as full tank shots and basic close-ups. No macro or anything like that.
- Will that same lens be suitable as a general purpose lens for vacations, family get togethers, indoor and outdoor shooting, etc.
- Will any of these cameras be annoying to transfer files to computer for editing? The Canon always mentions a card reader. Do any of these not use standard USB or included equipment to upload photo files. I have good image editing software but do not want to have to buy a special reader or not be able to use this with my current computer which has regular USB (not sure if it is USB 2 but I don't think so) and Firewire options.
-Which camera has the best on-board flash (not for aquarium photos but for everyday photos).
-Which camera has the most useful manual mode. I do not need or want a camera with tons of gimmicky effects settings but I do want to be able to have full control of speeds, focus, white balance, etc, etc, etc.
-Is there really a difference between the 6.1MP and the 8MP? Will I be able to tell the difference eventually and does it limit my print size and resolution?
-Any ideas on which has the best battery life.
-Any ideas on which has the best or most affordable future upgrades in terms of lenses and flashes. I don't want to get stuck with something that will end up costing me more later (in comparison to the competitor)

I know that is a lot of questions and I apologize. Feel free to respond to any or all. As I said, I have been and will continue to do research but dial-up sucks and I know there are a lot of very knowledgable people on this forum. My instinct is to go with the Canon or Nikon. The Olympus simply caught my eye because it has 2 lenses (but are they really any different). The Canon seems to be more "brand oriented" in that they use lots of fancy names and numbers to attract attention. Also, the whole card reader and special software stuff worries me. The Nikon, OTOH, has a lower MP and I also know it will only autofocus with special AF lenses since the D40 has no focus motor on the camera body but I do not know how specific the Canon lenses are to each body. In the end, I do not want a camera that will run out of technology or support in 5 years. With Nikon, I believe they are very good about making everything compatible (until the D40 although you can still use any lens but you have to focus it manually). Does Canon also have as good of support and compatibility over time?

I'll stop now, thanks for reading the book and I look forward to your replies.


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## bigstick120 (Mar 8, 2005)

Having just done this in October I will try to help.
Based on your choices above I would choose the Canon. It has been replaced by the XTi or 400D. It offers a bit more for the money so that may also be another option to look at. I chose the XTi
I have heard that the 40D has problems with auto focus, something about it missing a contact where the lens attaches-maybe cant use specific lens with it. Im not positive about that so check that out.
The olympus Im sure is a good camera, but dosent seem to have the options that the Nikon or Canon do, ie. lens, flashes and other add on accessories.

The canon lens is OK, its make of plastic. Fine to get you started learning how to use the camera. Full tank shots are fine, outdoors it will work well. Not real good for close ups, the working distance is a little long and it only focuses when you are about 6 inches + from your subject. Its not real great in low light do to the appature limitations. I replaced my kit lens with a sigma 17-70 for around 400.00, much sharper and better in low light. 

Will any of these cameras be annoying to transfer files to computer for editing? 

The canon you can just hook up with a USB cable, but you may want a card reader to save camera battery 

As far as MP are, I dont think you will notice unless you are printing very large photos, like posters or large advertisements.

Hope that helps, you have a lot of questions!

You can check out my photo gallery(see sig), the cherry blossoms were all shot with the kit lens, the close ups were with the 100mm macro though. A few others may also be with the kit lens on an XTi


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## Jason Baliban (Feb 21, 2005)

I would go to the store and hold them all. I dont know much about olympus, but both nikon and canon are more then capable of great pictures. 

I know it seems funny, but the one that feels the best in your hands is the one you should get. 

I dont know much about the olympus, but i believe the nikon is the best choice for aquarium photography. The canon lacks spot meter which is crucial for aquarium photography IMO. Also, i believe the TTL technology of nikon is an envy of canon.

All that being said, seriously, just go hold them. Again i cant speak for olympus, but i know plenty of people who swear by either canon or nikon. You will not be upset with either if you hold them first

jB


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Jason hit the nail on the head. I was deciding between the Nikon D80, Canon XTi, and the Pentax K10D. 

Just by holding them in my hands, I instantly ruled out the XTi. It's just too small...I don't want to have to lug around the battery grip for it to be comfortable.

So now I'm still between the K10D and the D80. The K10D has some banding issues that I'm concerned about though. Oh well.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

I think going somewhere and getting a 'feel' for them is a good idea. Personally, I am a Canon fan, so my advice will be somewhat colored.  The Rebel is a small camera, as has been said. But if $ is an object, Canon equipment is every bit as good as Nikon and generally slightly cheaper. The kit lens is what I call a 'toy lens', being plastic and its quality is marginal. But that is probably the case of all these under $100 kit lenses. Canon's (as well as Nikon's) accesory equipment and lenses are second to none. If you plan to eventually get into some serious photography, I would go with one of these two and skip the Olympus.

Whatever camera you get, you probably want to get a card reader for downloading your pics. They're fairly cheap ~$40, as I recall. 

If you shoot RAW, you can do a myriad of adjustments with RAW converters and you will have very nice images whether you're capturing 6 or 8 MP. BTW, the new Rebel is 10MP. I have the 8MP Canon 30D and I can blow up images up to 20x30 inches and it looks better than when I was using 35mm film. 

HTH.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Thanks for that advice all! Keep it coming Jason, I will definitely spend some time an a store looking at all the cameras but I want to go in knowing as much as possible first. The XTi and anything bigger than the D40 are out for me at this time price wise. This is also why I am looking for the most for my money at this time. To start, I need something that will cover all the basics but that I can add to later for more specific stuff.

Bigstick20, nice photos and thanks for sharing your experience. Close up for me at this point is certainly within the limits you mention for the kit lens. Also, when you say it is not great for low light situations, how bad are we talking? Would it be suitable, do you think, for indoor shots at family events? Not dark restaurants or bars but "well lit" houses and the like.

What about buying the body only and getting a better lens now? For either Canon or Nikon, what is a good lens size (not sure if that is the right word) to provide better all purpose shooting?

One last thing for now, what is a good place to buy from. I've found BuyDig and B&H.com but any other good online places. Oh, and what about buying used or refurbished from a reputable place?

Thanks again.


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

I would go Canon every time. Got an XT (350d) and love it


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Cameta cameras (their eBay store is great), BuyDig, B&H, Beach Cameras, Amdora? Amadora? Something like that.

Just make sure they're authorized dealers for your camera gear. At least for Nikon, I know they won't touch grey market cameras if you need any type of warranty service. Grey market means that the item wasn't sold by an authorized retailer.


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## bartoli (May 8, 2006)

Hi dennis,

If you haven't already, you may want to read the following D40 review:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d40.htm

After reading it, I bought a D40 and like it.

If you do get a D40, look into the accompanying CD "The 132 of digital imaging interactive learning suite" and do a free upgrade to version 4.0. It provides a very good explanation on the fundamentals of digital imaging.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

> Also, when you say it is not great for low light situations, how bad are we talking?


 With digital and shooting RAW, this becomes a non-issue, for the most part. Just change the ISO setting to 400 or 800 and low light issues kinda disappear.



> One last thing for now, what is a good place to buy from. I've found BuyDig and B&H.com but any other good online places. Oh, and what about buying used or refurbished from a reputable place?


I give my vote to B&H. I would highly recommend NOT going grey market, spend a couple of bucks more and get th US warranty.

As far as lenses, go for the equivalent 35mm of 28-70 and 75-300 or thereabouts. Tokina and Sigma are decent aftermarket brands. Make sure you get low dispersion glass to minimize optical aberrations.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Well I feel I have narrowed it down to the Canon Rebel XT 350D with a 17-55mm lens or the Nikon D50. I am not liking the seeming downgrade from the D50 that the D40 offers for the same price.

Which brings up another question: for a Nikon D50, what are your opinions on the Tamron and Nikon 28-80mm and 70-300mm lenses. I have found some pretty good deals (about $620-640 shipped) for kits with a combination of those two lenses along with the D50 body and all the basic camera accessories. Would some combination of these two lenses cover most basic situations of aquarium, indoor and outdoor photography? Would the Tamron 28-80 be a good walking around lens with good speed and sharpness? Sorry for all the questions but I really start to get lost when it comes to lenses.

Thoughts?


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## Jason Baliban (Feb 21, 2005)

Im not sure about that dennis. While it may seem that the d40 is less then the 50, i think that the d40 is actually a better choice. The LCD is larger, the viewfinder is nicer, it is lighter, it has a function button, and most importantly for us, it has better low light performance (lower noise). The auto focus areas, you wont miss them. The bracketing is missing, this one is hard to say. I very rarely use bracketing. With an LCD that large, you can just look at what it looks like and make the adjustments if need be. The autofocus thing will never be a prob for you if you dont have any older lenses laying around.

the d50 uses older technology, the d40 is using a better processor.

I would look into this just a little more before you jump. 

jB


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## bartoli (May 8, 2006)

dennis said:


> Well I feel I have narrowed it down to the Canon Rebel XT 350D with a 17-55mm lens or the Nikon D50. I am not liking the seeming downgrade from the D50 that the D40 offers for the same price.


Watch out! Technology has been progressing so fast that a downgraded product based on newer technology is often better than the pre-downgraded product which was based on older technology.

Unless there are some must-have features removed by the downgrade, I would hesitate on choosing D50 over D40.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Thanks for your input Jason. I am planning on stopping by a local photo store tomorrow and handling the D40. I am also hoping to handle a D50 if they have one in stock. Maybe that will help my decission? I am honestly a bit torn about the D40. I don't like that it is lighter and smaller (1/2" in all directions and 3 oz in comparison to the D50). My hands are not small. The larger LCD and new software seems like a good thing but I don't know if it is a selling point for me. THe D40 seems to have even better noise handling than the D50 but it is not as good with metering or white balance settings, though maybe I am wrong about that. Any opinions on white balance settings on the D40 and D50? Is it easy to set a custom white balance on either camera? 
As far as the AF lenses, I hope to build on this camera in the future and from my reading, it seems that many of the prime upgrade lenses (across a wide range of 3rd party lenses) will not be compatible with the D40. This makes buying used a non-option in the future. I do like that the D50 gets me an extra lens and a much wider range of possibilities for not a lot more money. However, I do not know if these lenses are worth it. Still, I feel that 2 OK lenses are better than 1 OK lens given my particular situation at this time.

Still, reading through dpreview.com and others, its so hard to decide between the D40 and D50. I do believe I will hold to Nikon and forgo the Canon (sorry Bert). Its also hard because I know that either camera will be a huge step up from my little Canon A70 but still, I want and need the most for my money at this time.


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## bigstick120 (Mar 8, 2005)

Before you make the decision, check the accessories on Canon vs Nikon, I dont know what it is. But more then likely you will soon what a macro lens, external flash and a few other accessories for shooting tanks. Like others said before you make you decision go out and hold the cameras, take some photos and decide. You have chosen 2 good brands of cameras


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Canon and Nikon both have a good selection of lenses as well as accessories...so I don't think it'll be too much of an issue. 

Good luck though on your purchase. I think I'm going with a Nikon D80 myself. I was thinking of the D40 and then decided against it because it doesn't have autofocus for the 50mm prime lens...and other lenses as well. Then I thought about going up to a D70 but I think I've finally decided on the D80. It's been a long road...


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

The D70 and D80 are out of my price range or this would all be a mute point Your point against the D40 is exactly what worries me about it. I also don't like that it is so small; however, newer technology and a larger LCD are a plus (though I don't feel like the LCD is that important to me).

So basically, I really need to compare the funtionability of the D40 to the D50, see which feels better in my hand and decide if a D50 (factory demo) with 1GB card, Tamron 28-80mm and Tamron 70-300 for $621 is a better deal than the D40 with 1GB card and 18-55mm Nikon AF lens for $525.


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## bartoli (May 8, 2006)

With the ever improving processor technology and therefore lower body price, I would focus on the lens, not the body. What matters is whether a body will work with the lenses that I plan to use in the near future. If there are several bodies that fit the criteria, I would pick the one with the best price. I am not willing to pay extra for any body features that I do not need now.

As processor technology improves, I expect to replace the body with better and less expensive ones while holding on to the same lenses that I have. Of course, I would pay a premium for quality lens.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

That is my feeling, more or less. I don't know about replacing the body anytime soon though My biggest question now is (yes, a slight contradiction to my earlier feelings) is the 2 lens D50 package better in terms of lenses than the improvements in the D40. I don't know anything about lenses and I am having a hard time finding reviews one way or the other. Basically, is the 18-55 capable of handling many situations or (how far away can the subject be for a good shot with that lens)? Any good places to read up on lenses?


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## bartoli (May 8, 2006)

The 18-55 that comes with the D40 is very good, versatile, and light weight. Of course, that is just my opinion. You can read Ken's review at:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/18-55-ii.htm

Regarding Tamron, I do not have personal experience. But I have read that it is behind Nikon, Canon, and even Sigma. Thus, I would be extra careful in verifying the quality of Tamron lens.

Reading reviews can be confusing. Nothing beats personal experience. As long as I plan to purchase from a local retailer, I feel comfortable picking up a camera and trying it for couple weeks. If I don't like it, I just return it for a full refund. In fact, that was how I rejected the Canon XTi Rebel. After reading Ken's D40 review, I went to another local retailer, picked up the D40 and decided to keep it.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

I just ordered a D40 with 18-55mm ED II AF-S DX (Nikon), 55-200mm AF-S DX (Nikon) and 1GB card. Bought it from Cameta Camera Ebay store for $653. The 55-200mm may seem like a silly purchase for someone so new but I got it for two reasons. One, my wife does a lot of orchestra concerts and recitals and that lens should allow for good shots from the back of the room/auditorium. I played with a D40 and 18-55mm lens in the store and realized I would not be able to get close shots of her from a distance. Second reason, I saved over $50 by buying the lens now. I figure these two lenses will cover almost anything I want to do for a very long time and they are good quality lenses (from what I read) so if I decide to upgrade in the future, they will hopefully have good resale potential.

In the end I went with the D40 for several reasons. Good reviews online, newer technology than the D50 and a bigger LCD and the ability to throw it on full auto and give it to my wife to use. All the photo comparisons I saw seemed to produce better results on auto when compared to the D50. I also felt that I was unlikely to end up with a lot of glass (unless I get real serious, in which case I would have to upgrade bodies also) so being limited to AF-S would not be huge deal.

Funny how my ideas and tune changed as I went along

Thanks for all your help everyone, I really do appreciate it!


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## Mud Pie Mama (Jul 30, 2006)

Dennis, 

I'm in the same boat now and have been reading digital camera reviews for days (weeks) on end. After much research I'm becoming more convinced that I should also forgo a fancy P&S (Canon A710-IS or Panasonic Lumix DMC FZ50) and just bite the bullet to go digital DSLR. I've also narrowed my choices down with the Nikon D-40 at the top of my list.

SO...I'd like to ask how you're liking your newly aquired D-40??

TIA!


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## vicpinto (Mar 27, 2007)

Ken Rockwell is a Nikon guy. No problem there. Hey, I'm partial to Nikon myself. However, you will not get an unbiased review from him. It's sorta like having a crack addict do a review of crack - of course he's gonna like it. 

If you want unbiased reviews head over to www.dpreview.com


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## bartoli (May 8, 2006)

When I read a review, I want to know how well the reviewer likes or dislikes a product. But all too often, a review was written in such a way that by the time I finished reading it I still didn't know whether the reviewer liked or disliked the product. Reading Ken Rockwell's reviews, I didn't have that problem. 

Professional and yet speak-the-mind reviews like Ken's are hard to come by.


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