# Ok now what.



## Lngtall1 (Feb 17, 2011)

Hello all,

I started a MGOC potting soil tank. Planted a bunch of water sprite and wisteria and it was looking pretty good. I added some driftwood that was supposed to have no tannins and it did so I did a 50% water change. So it would stop looking like ice tea.:drinkers:

Then when I filled up the tank the water got out of hand ( I had a small helper who is 2) and mixed the 1st layer of MGOC with the cap. Now my water looks like the gulf coast and is very muddy. Will it ever clear or do I have to start over. I turned off the filter to avoid clogging and a possible burn out.

Thanks for any help.
Kristy


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

How big of a disturbance are we talking? I have slipped and blasted a hole in the cap during water changes but everything settled and I sprinkled a little extra sand to cover the mud. That was only a small spot in a big tank though. If your soil is completely mixed in with the cap for a large portion of the tank in such a new tank you might want to start over if you have extra soil and cap substrate. How big is the tank? If it is under 20 gallons a restart isn't as catastrophic. Are there already fish in there? Do they have a alternate home while you restart. 

The tannins you where seeing were probably largely from the MGO soil. It can have a lot of bark in it. Even if you pre-soak it it can give it a yellow/brown look for a while. I never rinse or soak it. My tanks look like coffee the first week.


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## Lngtall1 (Feb 17, 2011)

It's a 65g, and we blew out a good portion.

If the only problem will be looks then I don't care since this is going to be a way to experiment with underwater biology and fish for the aforementioned 2 yr old. But will it settle or keep being muddy?

No fish, yet.

I didn't think about the substrate having wood particles, duh. Ok I guess we live with tea.


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## Franco (Jun 25, 2010)

It might settle or it might not if your water movement is strong enough. I'd probably scrap it and start over or just add some more cap and let the soil and gravel be mixed.
Do 2 year olds really need lessons on aquatic biology or is it really an experiment for you? ; )


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## Lngtall1 (Feb 17, 2011)

Since I posted the question I have done even more research and I can't figure out what would be harmful to the fish if some of the substrate was available to the water column. After several weeks a biofilm should keep it from being constantly stirred around, if I am reading it all right. It would make bottom feeders a possible no no but then how do they survive in the wild at all?

*Franco 
You are right about the tank right now, he mostly just likes to touch the water and be helpful, but I want the tank and future inhabitants mature and stable before we mess with them too much. Things like simulating rainfall or turning up the "sun" for plant growth. What they eat and really like (live food or veggies) compared to what they can be fed(flakes) Water testing etc. Looking at the water under a microscope and comparing what we see to the goldfish tank which is just gravel bottom. Those are all possibilities but I don't want to shock new fish by chaotic changes or by suddenly sticking my hands in the tank a lot.


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## 1aqumfish (Jul 28, 2008)

If you drain it and put a thin cap over the mix and carefully fill it you could avoid some real algae issues. The substrate is the most critical issue with a NPT, I would start over. Check out Mudboot's 125 journal.


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## Franco (Jun 25, 2010)

I know what you mean. My first baby is do in May and I'm already thinking about taking him fishing this summer and setting up a tank in the nursery. lol
The wife is less than pleased. 
I already bought him his first fishing pole (spider-man themed) so I'm thinking that some duct tape would keep the rod in his hand and the car seat should have enough helf that he won't get pull in. First microscope will probably be his 1st birthday present and when he learns to crawl he can drag buckets for water changes.


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

Lucky kids. I had to beg my parents for a microscope. I guess if I ever have helpers they will have different complaints though with potentially two microbiologist parents. 

We have tried to get our cat (the closest thing to a little helper we can handle now) involved in aquariums. She loves to smack the top of the filter and get in staring contests with the fish. She even tried to help with water changes too one time. She went to hop on top of the tank but the the top was off. I caught her before she got more than her toes wet luckily. 

With your big 65g tank and a small helper I am imagining him snorkeling in the tank with a pair of scissors and tweezers trimming and removing algae. If only they had better dexterity at that age.


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## vicky (Feb 18, 2010)

I don't think the substrate will harm the fish, and some would enjoy it, but it might cause algae growth. You can use a net to remove floating bits, the rest will settle like you said. You can add a little more cap, change more water and run a filter and it will probably look fine. What was the depth of the soil (originally) and the depth of the cap? What is the cap (gravel, sand)?

If it was to be a display tank I would advise redoing it, but since it is an experiment - why not experiment?


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## Lngtall1 (Feb 17, 2011)

My substrate was about an inch and a half but is a bit more hilly now and the cap was about 1 inch. I think I am going to add a bit more gravel in some places and leave some of it to see what happens. As Vicky said it is an experiment.

I think it helps that this is my grandchild and I am free to play since I have retired due to a chronic health issue. I tried to do the same with his Mom but it's hard when you are a parent. I get to do fun things they get to do discipline.:biggrin:

Franco* I bought him and I an electric train for under the Christmas tree the first year. So I understand completely.

Thank you all for the answers and hopefully the algae bloom will be pretty small.


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## Tuiflies (Jan 21, 2010)

If you let some of the watersprite float and maybe add some other floaters (like hornwort), it'll help keep the algae at bay. They're good to have in any NPT particularly at the beginning. The soil usually releases a lot of nutrients into the water column when it's initially submerged. The only one I avoid is duckweed because it's hard to get rid of once it's in there.


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## Lngtall1 (Feb 17, 2011)

If I get to much duckweed I can put one of my goldies in for a bit and duckweed is history. It doesn't even last overnight in their tank. Of course it helps when you have one 8 inch veiltail.


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## RickRS (Dec 20, 2010)

When you get the Big Muddy under control, how about using Seachem's Purigen for the tannin from the driftwood?

I'm a new convert to Purigen. The stuff is really working wonders for me in taking out tannins from three pieces of medium size driftwood in a 40 gal goldfish tank. One 100ml bag of Purigen in the filter and after 48 hours I can really see a big difference in tannins reduction. Better than any water change improvement.


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## Lngtall1 (Feb 17, 2011)

Thanks all and thanks Rick I will look in to it.


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## potatoes (Jun 25, 2010)

A large portion of my cap has also been mixed with the underlying soil because i used too fine of a cap, which made gap build up beneath it. It then burst though in a few fantastic geysers and churned up the whole layer. I decided not to redo the tank as things are just stabilizing. 
I am now just careful with any water changes i do, and use a dish to deflect the water from the substrate. Some of it is usually kicked up and i normally have a bit on my sword. My current plan is to make a carpet of foreground plants like dwarf clover and dwarf sag to help hold it all down and cover it. I just wont get any cories or rummaging bottom dwellers because i dont want them kicking it up


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## Lngtall1 (Feb 17, 2011)

Right now, my tank is still a little cloudy but the water quality is great which is good I had to do an emergency fish relocation to it. The goldfish have been tearing it up pretty good. The biggest an 8 inch veil tail has been sucking up the substrate and spitting it into the water column. He is lucky I love him 

On the plus side they seem to love the plants and all inhabitants seem much happier. Now if they will just stop digging up the substrate.

I think I am going to add some more gravel to it though to make it a bit harder for them to mess up.


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## vicky (Feb 18, 2010)

Try some smooth flat stones too big for them to pick up - especially around the plants you want to stay rooted.


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