# [Wet Thumb Forum]-lighting for a vivarium



## jpmtotoro (Feb 13, 2003)

sorry this is posted twice (once in the general section) i'm attempting to find out what sort of lighting parameters should be taken into consideration for a vivarium vs a normal aquarium. the tank is 20 inches high and will only have about 6 to 10 inches of water (not completely sure yet). i like PC, but i might need 4x55 to get good all-around coverage, but the tank is probably about 70 gallons and maybe only half will be water. the general wpg rule is sorta falling apart on this one







perhaps i should think of VHO instead of PC? would normal flourescent be ok? i'm sure i can get enough watts up there, but they aren't bright and don't have much penetrating power, through water is icky and air isn't too great either. anyone have any thoughts? thanks in advance

JP


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## jpmtotoro (Feb 13, 2003)

sorry this is posted twice (once in the general section) i'm attempting to find out what sort of lighting parameters should be taken into consideration for a vivarium vs a normal aquarium. the tank is 20 inches high and will only have about 6 to 10 inches of water (not completely sure yet). i like PC, but i might need 4x55 to get good all-around coverage, but the tank is probably about 70 gallons and maybe only half will be water. the general wpg rule is sorta falling apart on this one







perhaps i should think of VHO instead of PC? would normal flourescent be ok? i'm sure i can get enough watts up there, but they aren't bright and don't have much penetrating power, through water is icky and air isn't too great either. anyone have any thoughts? thanks in advance

JP


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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

it really depneds on what you have and what you're doing with it.

Will you be growing true aquatic plants in that 6-10 inches or growing terrarium/bog plants out of it?

How much of it will be land?

What about the wild life? if any?

Any light can work, just depends on your expectations. I have found I prefer 5400k bulbs in my gecko vivs and that a good amount of light is required, but positioning is more important than amounts. I use an AHS 55w (110g, 24lx23wx36d)on the largest along with a mercury vapor 150w spot.

*James Hoftiezer

Tank Journal - Aquascape ( Latest / Archive )
Tank Journal - Parts and Construction ( Latest / Archive )*


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## jpmtotoro (Feb 13, 2003)

woohoo, james to my rescue. ok here are some more details. tank is 48 wide, 20 tall, 18 deep (65 or 70 gallons, something like that). there's a possibility that there won't be a "land" area, just some rocks and wood pertruding out of the water a bit. the aquarium is mostly for newts and some frogs, all are small. i'm thinking of plants like creeping charlie, some small lillies and lotuses. the newts are mostly aquatic and don't need "sun bathing" areas, just plants to play in. in normal tanks i suppose i aim for about 2wpg (i have 2x55 wat ahsupply lights on my 50 gallon) but i'm kinda clueless on this. i'll have more plants in this tank than my 50 because it has a larger footprint, but the plants will be much shorter. if i went with 2x55 watts what sort of issues might i run into? what about 4x55? with 2, i'm worried that the light might be too centered, and the plants on the front and back won't get much light, and with 4, i'm worried i would be getting entirely too much light into the tank. i don't want everything algae encrusted! can you give me your thoughts? what sort of setup did you make for your geckos? i'm thinking well under a foot of water... perhaps if i got 4x55 i could put duckweed in there? would that reduce the light making it to the bottom, or totally black it out? i'm sorry for so many questions, but i can't afford to do this twice







one shot only!


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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

My vivs don't have nearly as much water and I don't do aquatic plants. The humidty would be too high for Geckos. I have false bottoms with waterfalls and misting systems. Most of my plants are terrestrial.

With newts and salamanders do not over do the light. Your main concern will be to maintain humidty and not to bake anything. I would go with the 2x55w. The other two lights could be added later, but it is my opinion you may not want them. Keep in mind that wpg figures are also based on penetrating water. In a viv you're growing everything on top or just below the surface.

I would put the light end to end across the front positioned 1/3 back from the edge. Build up/decorate the back with cork bark and stone. You can grow moss and small plants on the back using the same front light. Any shadows will seem natural.

I'll post some pics of my vivs asap.

*James Hoftiezer

Tank Journal - Aquascape ( Latest / Archive )
Tank Journal - Parts and Construction ( Latest / Archive )*


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## jpmtotoro (Feb 13, 2003)

i yanked my 2x55 watt hood off my 50 gallon and threw it on top of my new tank and just stared at it...i think you may be right, start with 2x55. i'm not too worried about my newts being scared of the light, they never come out of the water anyway. i used to have them in my 50 gallon with the water lowered and some lilly pads and drift wood for them to rest on... not ONCE did they EVER go up top, they were always running around the bottom looking for food (and since i love them so much i feed them until they are plump). i have never tried corkbark before, and my LFS never has any large pieces, although i could ask for them to order and hold some for me... would i silicone it in place? i have the tank 1/2 running right now, no substrate, crummy lighting, and some driftwood. the humidity is very high so i'm not worried about that. i'll have to play with the placement of the light... 1/3 from the back would mean more light in the back, better for growing taller plants back there... but if it's in the front, it'll cast shadows towards the back (good) any other reasons to place it in the front? also, if i did corkbark, would i cover the entire back?? if not, how would i make it not look fake and junky? i have 0 experience with it. i will go buy a small piece from my LFS so i can hold it and envision stuff. thanks for your help so far.

JP

PS what misting system do you have and where did you get it? i probably won't need one anymore because of the humidity, but i was looking for a time and couldn't find a simple and cheap one for my size tank. only large ones that were meant for multiple tanks, almost for a display at a reptile shop or something.


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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

I have the $100 misting system for multiple tank. It was that or a spray bottle. Tom actually has a good setup for using a pump up sprayer, but the parts for two tanks were the same as the misting system. In your tank I wouldn't worry about it. The humidity will already be high. My main use for it is to provide fresh water to the geckos for drinking.

Having the light in the front 1/3 will get light where you want to see stuff. Taller plants in the back will still get plenty of light. If not thenI think tilting the light is more effective than another set of lights.

Cork bark is awesome and you can do almost anything with it. That's a big reason why I adapted it for the aquarium. I would not get it through an LFS. They really wouldn't know what they were getting and charge you way too much.

You can use any size and even get tubes of it. You only need to silicone for permanent placement. I've manually placed it many times with great results and even used suction cups. Any where a 'rock cropping' would look natural, you can use the cork. It gives great texture. Reptile shows are the best place to get it. You can pick out the piece you want and usually pay by the pound.

I've found that you can add it here and there and it adds character. You do not need to cover the whole back. In your case I would use half tubes to 'come' up out of the river looking like tree trunks.

www.blackjungle.com and www.glasscages.com both carry a good selection.

*James Hoftiezer

Tank Journal - Aquascape ( Latest / Archive )
Tank Journal - Parts and Construction ( Latest / Archive )*

[This message was edited by JamesHoftiezer on Wed March 05 2003 at 04:52 AM.]


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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

Here's my gecko viv with the lighting described. Keep in mind the height. This is 36" tall. See how much light ther is up top.
Your viv is really going to be more of a palaudium. Down low, mimicking a river system.










Here's what the cork bark looked like when I used it in my aquarium;









Here's how I mounted cork in an older viv that needs rebuilding (its dead). The cork was held onto the back wall, suspended off the ground by suction cups.









*James Hoftiezer

Tank Journal - Aquascape ( Latest / Archive )
Tank Journal - Parts and Construction ( Latest / Archive )*


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## jpmtotoro (Feb 13, 2003)

DROOOOOOL... anyway, i'm not gonna pick up all the cork bark at my LFS, i just wanted to get one piece so i can actually handle it. i want to see how bouyant it is, how flexible, how easy it is to shape, etc, before i buy a few larger pieces. the tree thing isn't a bad idea, i might give it a whirl. how did you attach suction cups to the corkbark? silicon? thanks again for your help, i appreciate it.

JP


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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

The cork is easy to cut and shape. I think th ekey is to get pieces that have character and fit your situation.
They are bouyant and that bouyancy cannot be removed. Items have to be held in place using weights, anchors, silicone or suction cups.

I used hardware store suction cups with metal hangers. I bent the hangers and pushed the hook directly into the cork. Cork is not heavy at all so it can be suspended on a wall with very little effort.

In my tank each cork section has screen attached to the bottom and gravel is poured on top of the screen to hold the cork down.

*James Hoftiezer

Tank Journal - Aquascape ( Latest / Archive )
Tank Journal - Parts and Construction ( Latest / Archive )*


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## jpmtotoro (Feb 13, 2003)

james i was in luck! on the way back from the store, i stopped off at petco with my friend for the heck of it, and they had just gotten a shipment of wood recently, and they had a ton of corkbark! i overpayed i'm sure, but i found 3 pieces that i love! i will take a picture and post them probably. 1 was good for a "tree" in the back, and the other 2 just screamed character. now i just need to wait for my onyx sand to come in, then i need some PC lights for the tank, then a canister filter. and then plants... more decorations... man i need a ton of stuff still! bummer







well i gotta run to school, catch ya later

JP


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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

Sounds great. 
Post the pics of everything in a journal and we can all help you out (assuming you want our help







)

P.S> Are you thing about waterfalls, ledges or non-aquatic plants? There's some cool ideas out there if you need them.

*James Hoftiezer

Tank Journal - Aquascape ( Latest / Archive )
Tank Journal - Parts and Construction ( Latest / Archive )*


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## jpmtotoro (Feb 13, 2003)

i took a few pictures today, i will go start up my webspace soon and load them up. i am interested in waterfalls and ledges, although i may not use any. non-aquatic plants perks my interest though because... you'll see with one of the pieces of corkbark, i may stick it to the side of the aquarium, like a branch coming in and ending... and perhaps i could grow a plant on that. i know some plants (like anubias) can grow out of the water as long as there is high humidity... i'd be interested in other plants like this. there isn't a misting system (yet) but the humidity is so high that beads of water cover every glass surface (i may need to install a fan to blow on the front glass to clear it off) so yet, plant info would be wonderful. i ordered my gravel, ordered my lights, and i need to build my hood. when it comes in, i'm going to dump all the stuff in the tank and just start rearranging until i sorta like it, then i'll work from there. my LFS doesn't carry many non-standard goods, but they will always order stuff for me if i can find it. as for getting everyone's help... that was a no brainer. i don't have 100 some posts in under a month for no reason







good conversations here, lots of info. my main planted tank is going to actually look decent when it grows in i think. the plants are finally growing beautiful shades of green, healthy leaves, relatively quickly... all is good. and i'm not even adding CO2 yet! when i get a job this summer i will buy a system, in the mean time, excel is my friend. you guys still dwarf me though... i just got my first order from robert today (that reminds me, i should send him a thank you email) and the stuff i ordered was lush and green (even after being in the box for 2 days and being shipped in michigan!) but he also ripped out a few extra plants he had and one of the things was 4 feet long! i kid you not, exactly 4 feet long. my tank is only 4 feet long!!! i have no clue what it is, it looks like some sort of a val on steroids... but i don't understand how he grew it! must have just grown across the surface or something... but after seeing his stuff, i feel small and shrimpish again, even after everything i've learned. oh, and he also sent me a red tiger lotus and one of the leaves was about the size of my stretched-out hand. anyway i'm digressing, yes please send any neato info my way. i probably won't make a ledge... i'm on a "no fake stuff" binge. i want to try to use completely natural stuff in all of my designs. it makes it more difficult, but looks cool if done right. but it would still be nice to learn how. thanks again, i'll work on getting pictures up soon.

JP


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