# March meeting, March 16 in McKinney!



## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

This is a thread to lead you up to the meeting. The idea is to have something to look at every few days before the meeting and get excited about it. Here it goes:

Tonight, Sunday, I started to build the LED light that you will see running at the meeting. It is 28" long and meant to go over a 30 gallon tank. It has gizmos to be dimmed. Actually you can dim the 3 different colored groups of LEDs separately to get a color that is to your liking. Hope all that sounds exciting.

I have a PAR meter but I'd love to have someone bring the club PAR meter so we compare readings and generally "have fun with science". We will compare the PAR of different bulbs and see if a $250 LED fixture is that great after all.

Please do not expect my tanks to be stunning. Expect them to be as real as they come. This is not about pretty tanks but about meeting everybody and making them feel good. This is my bestest tank that is just about ready to be entered in the ADA competition. At the meeting I will ask you if I should nudge the cup a bit to the right or not so the tank has a better shot at getting 1st and not 2nd place:









Before you come to the meeting make sure you like dogs. Take an obedience class or something. In case you did not know please learn that every dog lover eventually figures out one simple thing: If the dog does not like you eventually you let down the owner too in some shape or form. Who's crazy here is another story, but the fact is each of you will be tested more or less 6 times. Some of you will fall in love, guaranteed. A dog is a kind of a parasite and assures its well being by using charm. Very similar to babies and politicians. You have been warned.

















Allright, back to the real world: Update #1, fresh off the... camera. What you see is the Aluminum rail on which the LEDs are glued with a special glue the conducts heat. These tiny LEDs get super hot and can burn if they are not in touch with something that draws the heat away. Hence the Aluminum rail and the special glue. The writing "NW" and "RB" designates where each kind of LED goes. There is a total of 18 LEDs and I can count to 3 only so I have to write things down.









Tonight I will post another picture - of the 2 Aluminum rails with all 18 LEDs glued in place. The glue has to set overnight so I will have plenty of time to make a picture with my pinhole camera too.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Update #2:

Just glued the 18 LEDs. I've never used the Arctic Adhesive and it smacks me as epoxy. Nothing to it except I have no idea how much of it to use. I scuffed the Aluminum rail where each LED was to be glued, mixed the parts A+B and smeared it in a reasonable fashion on the Aluminum. The stuff dries pretty fast. For a first timer it is hard to know how much adhesive to apply exactly where so on some of the LEDs in the back you see "halos" of white adhesive. It may not be too pretty but I am sure it will not grow algae in the tank or something.

What you see on the picture below is the LEDs in front and in the back you see two plug looking things. These are "lenses". They narrow the beam of light that comes from a "naked" LED (as the ones in front). I had to use lenses because the fixture will hang about 10 inches above the tank so I wanted all the light enter the tank and not run amok around the room or something.










Note that I still have not soldered the wires to the LEDs. I attached the 2 lenses just to see how it is done. When attached they will get on the way of the soldering iron - the worst thing that can happen to you in life. So tomorrow, after soldering I will attach the remaining 16 lenses.


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## alexopolus (Jan 18, 2010)

Can't wait to see the it finish! Niko do you have a estimate of how much money in parts have you spent?


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## Tugg (Jul 28, 2013)

I absolutely LOVE the tank. It has a clean simplicity that makes it a shoe in for an award. Though I imagine the maintenance on such a setup must be grossly time consuming.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Alex,

The materials cost $250. Keep in mind that two things make this rig "custom":

1. The Aluminum rails (which are a heatsink) - allows you to string the LEDs any way you want. From the same company you can buy everything as a kit but the sinks are certain lengths. Bottom line is - it still makes sense to order them with the other parts (no driving, not more expensive, cutting needed either way).

2. The light has dimming capabilities. In this case it is not so much about intensity only but about color of the light too. 

A ready to go kit without no dimming is $185 from the same company.

What is interesting about all that is how it compares to a DIY T5HO light - both price and PAR. That is exactly what we will see at the meeting.


Tugg,

That was a joke and I wish the tank with the lonely pot in the middle was one of my tanks. Mine are uglier...

But joke or no joke for the meeting, just for you, I may dig up some 10 year old ADA magazines in which they do show tanks with pots plunked in the middle of the tank. Except that the pots are just about larger than the tanks. It is pretty interesting to see how such an ugly thing can look almost pretty if it is seen on the pages of a glossy magazine.

All,

The guy that is walking me through the LED buld (and I mean holding my hand every step of the way) - TropTrea here on APC most likely will not be able to be part of the meeting via a webcamera that Sunday. I thought that we have 2 weeks to figure out how to do the web conference thing and invite anyone else we believe to be a celebrity on our world.

If we get resourceful enough we maybe able to pull something even better - multiple connections which will allow more than 1 person to peek into our meetings and talk to us. I'd love to invite people like Zapins, Jeffy, Darkcobra or Cavan Allen. Or just have local folk that can't actually come be able to be at the meeting virtually.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Update #3:

Sort of an update that is. It is about how many mistakes I was able to squeeze in a very short time.
Just gluing the LEDs allowed me to make 5 mistakes already. They are not too bad but hey, describing them will make the building of the light almost live:

1. Probably used too much adhesive.
The website of the store has a very nice explanation on how to assemble everything. I, of course, did not bother to look too much. You are supposed to put a small dab of adhesive on the back of the LED. Not as much as I used.

2. Put the adhesive on the heat sink instead of the back of the LED.
I smeared the adhesive in the general area of where the LEDs where going to be. That produced some smears here and there - white adhesive visible around the LEDs. Nothing deadly but still...

3. Scuffed the Aluminum with 120 grit sandpaper. 
I figured the Aluminum had to be scuffed as TropTrea had told me. Using steel wool. But I forgot the steel wool at work so I used sand paper. It left visible fine scratches. Nothing to horrible but still... Also the scuffed areas need to be degreased but I didn't have any solvent to do that. I bet that is not the end of the world either - the glue is indeed very strong.

4. Glued the LEDs in such a way that the wiring will not be the most straightforward.
Basically I will have to cross wires and use a little longer wires. At least it is all "hidden" in the Aluminum channel and not exposed on the face of the fixture where the LEDs are. You will see what I mean when you come to the meeting.

5. Did not test each LED before gluing down.
The materials came with a tester that lets you make sure that all your LEDs are working BEFORE you glue them down. But who has time for testing before gluing? Time for testing after gluing is plenty plus the worry that one of the LED might be bad kicks in and here I was testing the glued down LEDs. Got all happy when all of them proved to be working. Sometimes you can actually engineer your own happiness I guess.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Update #4:

Iced in I do some soldering. Below are pictures of the dimmer. It is two knobs which have some contacts on the back. It is all DIY so you have to do your own soldering. It is not rocket science. Here's how it looks.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

This is about calculating the number of LEDs that can be used with a particular driver. I don't know the first thing about any of that and I am trying to learn. The idea is to have a good, informative content for our club meeting. We'll go over these details during the meeting if everybody feels it's ok. Here's how I understand it:


1. The Driver has some output voltage. My drivers (Mean Well ELN-60-48D dimmable) can output from 24 to 48 Volts.

2. Each LED has a maximum current (Ampers) that can handle. Applying less current is ok but more than the maximum will burn them. My LEDs have a max. current of 1500 mA (1.5A).

3. Each LED has "Forward Voltage". You need to know this because it allows you to figure out how many LEDs you can hook up to your driver. The Forward Voltage differs depending on how much current is passing through the LED. For example: At 1500 mA my LED use 3.25V. But at 350 mA my LED use 2.9V.

4. The minimum number of LEDs that a driver can run is calculated like this:
Minimum Voltage from Driver / Forward Voltage at max. Amps = number of LEDS

My Driver's minimum voltage is 24. My LEDS max. Voltage is 3.25 at the max of 1500 mA. So 24/3.25 = 8.

5. The maximum number of LEDs that a driver can run is calculated like this:
Maximum Voltage from Driver / Voltage at max. Amps = number of LEDS

My Driver's maximum voltage is 24. My LEDS max. Voltage is 3.25 at the max of 1500 mA. So 48/3.25 = 15.

6. In reality my LEDs have a Forward Voltage of 1300 mA (not 1500). That means that I am safe running 15 (not pushing them to an actual maximum). Also chances are that I will be dimming them because they will probably be too bright which is basically running them at less than the maximum current. That means a bit cooler operation + running them much lower than the maximum current they can handle. This also means that if you never run your LEDs at maximum current you can connect a few more to the same driver. The driver manufacturers have even provided a hidden feature that allows you to fine tune the driver so it never burns your LEDs. Oh my.


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## Malefactor (Jan 29, 2014)

I may not be able to make the meeting... In fact, there's probably only about a 10% chance that i'll be able to make it... however, this is a subject i am GREATLY interested in. My biggest question is that i have not found a lot of information on is what IS the driver? Is that the dimmer switch, or the power supply? The wiring configurations can be found online, as well as the LED's and such, but i can not seem to find the information on what it is / how the driver actually works. As well, it states how many LED's you can run from a single driver (as stated by the min / max calculations you have), but how are you getting the correct voltage to each one. In my electrical experience, the ones closest to the driver would get more power than the ones to the back, so if you were to try and max the power to each LED to run a high end system, wouldn't the first ones burn out from over voltage and the end ones get less? Or, does it evenly space the voltage or place the driver in the middle? A lot of questions i know, but something a lot of people will probably bring up and want to know at the meeting. Should i not be able to make it (which most likely will be the case), i'd love to get your number or PM me for a run down later to see how it goes and get more information


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Oh, but I clearly said that I do not know the first thing about LEDs. A guy here on APC is guiding me. He is in Wisconsin, I am in Texas. I was hoping to video stream him to the meeting but he has other obligations that day. You see how it goes.

Thing is at the meeting there will be people that can answer the deeper questions. DigitalGod is one of them. If you make a separate topic here I am sure knowledgeable people will respond. As you probably know when one knows something it just itches to be talked about, haha. 

Also if I knew the questions up front I can find answers so it is all put together logically. I was wondering some of the same things that you are asking but thought it would be too much information for the meeting. Maybe it is not.


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## fishyjoe24 (May 18, 2010)

it's okay. I'll be jet lagged from vacation, hope I get enough sleep saturday so I can be at the meeting sunday.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

I'd like for someone to bring the club PAR meter to the March 16 meeting. I have a PAR meter but from what I understand all of them differ a little or a lot depending on what kind of light they measure predominantly (wavelengths).

Who has the club PAR meter at the moment? Will they come to the meeting?


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

VP Ben Patel has the meter right now, I will contact him.


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## jerrybforl (Jul 22, 2008)

Michael I'll bring mine as well. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Please bring all PAR meters that you have. I didn't realize I am not the only special person that can measure PAR. And I think we will all see how these contraptions differ. One more way to see how the very basics of this hobby need a closer look.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

This will be very interesting. I suggest we begin by taking readings of natural light outside, then whatever aquaria are available.

Gentlemen, start your PAR meters!


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Natural light outside... Well, with my PAR meter I get the same reading of about 1700 outside on a sunny day and 4' away from a 250W halogen bulb. This same bulb gives a reading of 80 at about 10'! As we have all agreed 80 - 100 is a PAR reading that will grow any plant available. So is it my meter being off or the halogen bulb being truly sun-like or us having to clarify what light properties actually make sense for our hobby(light sources, spectrum, PAR or PUR). These are some of the questions I hope everybody clearly sees as yet to be answered at the meeting.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Allright, hope you remember that this Sunday at 1PM there will be a DFWAPC meeting in McKinney.

I've been making slow progress with the LED light building. I have too much work and it looks you will have the pleasure of seeing tanks that have gone without a water change for 2 weeks. An unseen thing indeed. But it looks like I will have the LED running tonight and as we all know once you get LED lights your life just gets to a whole different level.

What I just did was to drill holes in the Aluminum rails that both hold the LEDs and serve as a heat sink. The idea behind drilling holes is that you thread the wires through them. That way they are more stable and are not placed on the front of the fixture. Basically you end up with a more rugged fixture.

Now, the LEDs are glued to the Aluminum rails with something that is both adhesive and conducts heat. In case you do not know the tiny LEDs get really hot. You cannot use them without a heat sink. So this adhesive both glues them to the heat sink and is an excellent heat conductor designed specifically for that purpose.

The adhesive smacks me as just glorified epoxy. It is two parts and comes in small syringes. You mix the two parts and apply the glue. The company that makes it constantly claims that you got to be careful and make sure you glue everything the right way because there is no second chance. The glue holds everything forever. But today I managed to end "forever" by accidentally hitting one of the LEDs with my drill while drilling the holes. The LED just came off and didn't even say a word. You can see it on the picture below - I placed it off the line of glued LEDs. Very exciting indeed, I just have to glue it back. So much for glued "forever". Actually I think that the back of my LEDs are probably oily from me handling them. Big deal, anyway.

In the process of drilling the Aluminum rails I managed to bend one drill bit to a 90 degree angle (don't ask me how) and to break another. This clearly confirmed that I am special.

As expected and planned I made a mistake - did not glue the LEDs in such a way that the wiring is the most straightforward. I'd have saved at least 3" of wire too! Oh well, live and learn.

TropTrea who has been immensely helpful to guide my dull mind and blind eyes through all this suggested red and black wire. But going late in the evening to Home Depot scares all employees away. No one to cut the special 18 gauge red and black wire. So I got this cool looking clear insulation wire because it was right there on a spool, ready to go. Actually I like it better than the red/black.

So here it is - the fixture with LEDs glued, holes drilled, and wires run through the holes. Tonight I will solder and hopefully be able to shine the fixture into the night sky. Watch for the beam of light. I will be writing "Sunday, 1PM, McKinney" in the night sky.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

It works!

Below is a picture of the thing. Apparently the camera does not like the weird light as you can see.









The fixture does dim just fine. There are 2 groups of LEDs that can be dimmed separately. Group 1 is 8 Neutral White LEDs. This light is ok but it is not crisp by itself. Group 2 is 4 Cool White + 4 Royal Blue. This light is way too blue by itself.

Running both groups together at maximum intensity gives a very strong and crisp looking light. TropTrea didn't lie to me after all... I was preoccupied with the question why didn't we add red LEDs but I see now it is not needed. At least as far as color is concerned. PAR and what the plants will say is another story.

On the picture above you can see a single LED with a lens. The lens is 40 degrees. The fixture is meant to hang about 10 inches above a 30 gallon tank so TropTrea suggested 40 degree lenses. You can tell how much the light spills without the lenses.

The LEDs make super bright light. Not a good idea to look straight into them. I didn't like even looking near by. Without the lenses the thing is somewhat impractical because of the spilled strong light.

The soldering was very easy. Except I didn't realize that you can easily short the circuit if you are not very careful soldering exactly over the little copper colored pads that the LEDs have. Thank goodness the kit comes with a little tester that you use to figure out if you have dead LEDs and if you shorted the circuits somewhere. I got lucky and I had only one LED shorted - the tin had spilled over the aluminum base of the LED and despite my efforts to clean it I had to cut a small piece out of the LED base. That fixed the problem. Ugly but hey, it works just fine and it is a tiny defect.

Building this thing is indeed easy. I had never soldered in my life. I don't have a clue about electrical circuits.

The only thing that I can find "wrong" right off the bat is the price. I have a favorite expression "Look what I can do with money!" - mocking TV shows showing how to turn a dumpy house into a $500K property. This LED build felt a bit like that. It was not hard but I guess that's what $250 buys you. At the meeting we will compare it to other options - both PAR and prices.

Tomorrow I hope to have time to glue all the lenses in place and the fixture will be ready to go. From what I saw already not all lenses fit perfectly over the LEDs. It seems that that is the only actual problem that I found with the materials.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

So how do I find out where the monthly meetings are?

I looked over the club sub forum here and I can't find any information how to get the address for the meeting. If I was new I'd have no idea.

Is it through Facebook?


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## Tugg (Jul 28, 2013)

Alex sent an email out. I doubt you yourself will have a problem finding where to go this month 

As for other members, If someone didn't get the email, I would advice them to PM me or another board member and we'll pass on the address.

I would like at some point to fix the website with a way for registered members to have it sent to their email. That function was broken with the move to the new server and I haven't had time to look into it yet.

For now, email blasts from the club President and asking are our two methods.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

*Argh! I have to work this weekend! * I was supposed to bring a projection screen with me, is that still needed?


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## Tugg (Jul 28, 2013)

I have a projector, but no screen.

If Niko doesn't have a white wall we can use, I can always swing by your place and pick up the screen real quick and return it next week.


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## CrownMan (Sep 12, 2005)

I have an old silver slide/film projector screen.

Do I need to bring it?


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

OMG! How did I get myself into this predicament?!? CrownMan himself, the Man with the Big Planted Tank Room, is coming to my house from the end of the world where the water is magical, to look at my half evaporated tanks. This is beyond shame. Maybe I will blind him with some LEDs and say many things at once to confuse him...

Mike,
Yes, bring the silver screen. My house is very bright, most windows do not have curtains, and a reflective screen will only help.


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## alexopolus (Jan 18, 2010)

All right, I'm back! Bryan do you want me to bring my projector? Niko, I guess I don't have your information in the members contact list, that's why you haven't get any emails. 
Do we need anything else?


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## Tugg (Jul 28, 2013)

I knocked the cob webs off mine and its working, so we're good. You don't need to bring it. Though my bulb hasn't been ran for an extended period in over a year, so a spair wouldn't hurt. Niko lives just down the street from me apparently, so I should be able to get there a little early and setup no problem.

Niko, when would be a good time for me to come over? I'd like to setup the projector as well as a spot to take dues and give out member cards. I have a folding table I can bring.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

12:30 sound ok? Any time from then on.


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## fishyjoe24 (May 18, 2010)

about to get some snacks and drinks then head that way.


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## TanyaQ2000 (Jan 31, 2010)

Thank you Niko. Great presentation.


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## fishyjoe24 (May 18, 2010)

it was a nice meeting, good seeing you again Nikolay. So are you back in to planted tanks?


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

I am Joey, I never left. But when I say I am busy I think most people do not understand what I mean.

It was very nice to have everybody over. I only wish I was not so tired and could talk to everybody.

One thing that we missed - when we were testing the new light over the 6' tank we forgot that the fixture can accept 8 more LEDs. That basically means that with one driver you can extend the rail from 27" (what you saw) to 40" long. So basically for $130 you can light up 1/4 of a 6' long X 2' X2' tank just fine. Meaning that you will need about $550 for the entire tank. This is with the dimming option which according to Fred is not that practical or a must have. What would be best is a gradual automated dimming functionality to emulate sunrise/sunset.

So the LED fixture is not cheap but from what we all saw the light was very bright. And you MUST use lenses. My existing T5HO for the 6' long tank cost $600 7 years ago and I have to have six 80" long bulbs to get good PAR. What you all saw was only 2 bulbs sitting directly on the tank rim. With 6 bulbs there is no open space over the tank. But the LEDs can be hung much higher and still get great PAR at the bottom.

I just weighed my PAR meter sensor and placed it on the bottom of the 24" deep tank. I get PAR=130 when I hold the fixture 2" above the water. At 2.5' the tank bottom is evenly lit. It looks like the fixture does not need to be run at 100% - 80 -100 PAR is plenty from what we all agree on.

To the human eye the LEDs are very bright. Will they be good for the plants too is to be answered.

After the meeting I left the fixture lit for about 30 minutes. It got warm but not hot - it felt well above body temperature but not burning.

I was glad to see that 3 PAR meters showed very close results. My concern was that my meter was way off.

Thank you to all that came to the meeting today!


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Hm, it looks like you can get the materials for lighting up a big tank pretty cheap. 

A 6'x2'x2' tank can be lit with more than 100 PAR units from 2.5 ft. above the water for about $385. Without dimming capability that would be about $325. Add $40 for the Aluminum rail. Both are a darn good deal for the PAR you get. Once again - the hope is that the plants will like the light too.


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## CrownMan (Sep 12, 2005)

Thanks for hosting Niko. I was also surprised that the LED lights were so bright. I think we all witnessed the potential of LED lighting. Hope it pans out and gives us a cheaper and better alternative with less heat.


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## BenChod (Sep 21, 2011)

Thanks Niko for hosting the meeting. It was a pleasure see you and discussing the LED topic, you did a great job in explaining the LED's.


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## alexopolus (Jan 18, 2010)

Niko it was really nice to meet at your home, I really enjoyed your presentation.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

The spring crazy season kept me in the office ALL DAY Sunday trying to catch up. Could someone give a brief summary of the meeting? I'm really sorry to miss it.

Also, where is the club's PAR meter now? Just checking in case someone wants to borrow it.


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## BenChod (Sep 21, 2011)

Alex has the clubs PAR meter.


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## mooncon (Oct 12, 2011)

I'm in the same boat as Michael seems I always have something going on every Sunday


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Almost 15 folk came. Tugg swiftly setup a welcoming fold up table. Everybody got a name tag. There were chips and salsa and junk food like that complete with sodas but no ice so no one drank any sodas. Someone brought a really good nut mix and someone else brought a funny looking donut hole creation with orange stripes which turned out to be very tasty if you didn't eat the icing.

The rest is mundane - I didn't get to talk to many people. My presentation was on a nice screen and flowed out of a nice projector - all thanks to Tugg and CrownMan/Alex. To me the most interesting part of the presentation was the fact that the first practical LEDs where actually created in Dallas, TX. In TI. The first LEDs overall where created in the beginning of the 20 century. The rest was a few words about wiring - making it simple to grasp because I remember very well how it confused me. It is very simple indeed - just like a fluorescent bulb needs a ballast the LEDs need a "driver". That's a good start to overcome the fear of LED wiring.

The interesting part came when we lit up the DIY fixture. I had not glued the lenses over the LEDs. I didn't have time but also I really wanted to show everybody how impossible to use are bare LEDs. The light is way too intense and spills royally to the sides. The lenses contain it and direct it forward. The PAR without lenses was nothing to write home about - I think about 80 from like 1' away.

But with lenses (40 degree in this case) everything changed. When the fixture is 2.5 ft. above a 2 ft. tall tank the PAR on the bottom is 150. The LEDs add up to 54 watts. 

We found some issues with the light coverage. The fixture does not give very good PAR close to the front or back glass (tank is 2 ft. wide). But we agreed that it that is a problem of locating the LEDs, not intensity. Two rows of LEDs, 3" apart, with 40 degree lenses do not cover 2 ft of width very well. It looks ok but there is a darker area in front and in the back of the tank. Later I found that what made a beautiful visual appeal was combining the LEDs with my existing Giesemann T5HO Midday bulbs. Both very natural and very strong light. Beautiful strong shimmer included, fish shadows on the bottom at all times included. The best placement of the LED was closer to the front of the tank, under a slight angle, and 2.5 ft. above. That way no light bothered my eyes, the fish scales showed new colors from the reflected light, and the coverage included the entire back of the tank.

As Tugg put it, after being blinded by the DIY fixture we were converted to LED. Now, once again, yes it looks cool, it is not expensive to make (I overspent on it from not knowing how to get everything way cheaper), and it makes a monstrous PAR. But will the plants like it is something we will see in the future.

I am about to make another LED fixture. Basically the same thing but on a 60" rail. The one we played with was 2 rails - 28 inches each. Paid $250+ for 18 LEDs but I can get 24 for $165, everything needed included.

To me there was another thing that I found more interesting than the LED at the meeting. At the end Alex told us that he is in possession of about 100 million different species of Bucephalandras right now. All of them are unrecognizable because of the way they arrived - they are small and not looking very good but alive. Thing that got me was that apparently Bucephalandras are endemic to certain small areas. Certain species live only in certain small area. Well, thanks to us being the amazing human miracles of creation, a lot of the habitats do not exist any more. Simply put - some of these Bucephalandras may exist only in aquariums. And some may exist only here in Dallas. As usual I make everything too dramatic but I think it is worth spreading these plants and keeping them alive. And you should hear how Alex talks about the amazing colors that the submersed leaves develop. Also - apparently Bucephalandras are just like Anubias - you got to be special kind of idiot to manage to kill them. So - hardy plant, most likely rare to extinct in nature, unseen coloration of the leaves. You want it!


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Niko, thanks for the summary! I've been reading up on LED fixtures and will probably try one when I can afford it. I don't want to build it myself, so are you familiar with Build My LED in Austin? http://www.buildmyled.com/


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

It all boils down to not having to do DIY. If you are making a fixture for the first time you will easily spend 10 hours doing research/working on the fixture. And you will make a few mistakes. If you pay yourself $10/hr that's at least $100 added to the price of the DIY fixture.

What I see on the site of the Austin company is that for $230 + shipping you can get a fixture to light up a 30 gallon standard tank ok, not the highest PAR but just fine. Also the fixture looks good, is ready to go out of the box. It has no dimming option to add in the future but Fred said the dimming is not really a deal breaker because you set the light once and forget about it. Also you can do fine tunning with lowering/raising or with timers.

For the same $230 you can DIY a fixture that will illuminate the bottom of a 2 ft. deep x 6 ft. long tank with about 120 PAR. But you have to DIY. The fixture will have a dimming option for another $60 if you want it. Add the cost of DIY and also remember that it will look only as pretty as you make it.

For a 30 gallon tank you can DIY a fixture to match the Austin company for less than $100.

In both DIY and ready-to-go cases there is the question of mounting the fixture. A new bracket, cables from the ceiling, etc. From my experience that is where most people screw up the nice sleek looks.

If you want, since I will be building a second fixture very soon, you can consider me making yours too. It will be way cheaper, but you got to be happy with the way it looks. All I want is the fun of making it and gain some more insight on this and that in the process. There is complete freedom on how we the fixture can look. I have even been toying with the idea to ditch the Aluminum rail look and use individual heat sinks for every LED. To make something like the looks below but with 20 little heads "hovering" over the tank. Everybody can decide if that look is pretty or not but note something else - you can point every single LED wherever you want it:


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Actually, that sounds pretty cool! Let's brain storm a little.

The fixture would be for the 40g breeder in the entry foyer of my home. At some point I may upgrade to a 60g with same footprint, just taller. I love open-top tanks with emersed growth coming up out of the tank.

This is a Walstad tank, and will stay that way so very high PAR is not necessary. But I would like to try a midday burst lighting schedule, so the peak PAR would be higher than typical for the Walstad method. This also means that the fixture needs to be programmable in some way. Something simple like two power cords and two separate banks of LEDs controlled by separate timers would be OK.

I already have the hardware installed to hang a fixture from the ceiling. My taste runs to minimal and industrial, so a thin aluminum bar hanging above the tank would be fine.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Here are the two options. Both will provide plenty of PAR. Prices are with the Aluminum rail included:

1. 1 row of LEDs, 1 group to dim. $110. 12 LEDs
Add dimming for $30.

2. 2 row of LEDs, 2 groups to dim. $140. 16 LEDs.
Add dimming for $30.

I'd go with option 2 because you can raise the fixture very high above the tank - 4 feet or even more. But this option very much forces to use a dimmer because the light is a complete overkill for a 40 gallon tank. Or you can mount the fixture very high. But with a dimmer you can dim it to where the heat is much less and move it as close to the surface as you want. The 2 groups of LEDs will allow for a very big variation of the color of the light - from neutral white (about 5500K) to very crisp white 10-11000K. 

The automation is more involved. There are $50 devices that will allow to gradually increase the light intensity (emulating sunrise/sunset) but I'm not sure how to work with them and I'm not sure you really want such precision. The easiest way to make a mid-day strong light is by using option 2 and run one of the groups of LEDs only when high light is needed. Remember the two groups are dimmed individually so the intensity of the high light can be adjusted too.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Thanks! The tank currently has PAR of 160 at the surface and 30 at the substrate. This is fine for the base lighting. I would like to double or triple that for the midday burst. Does that effect your thinking?


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Can we keep your existing fixture and add the new LED fixture too?


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Unfortunately no, it is one of those incredibly bad Coralife T5 NO fixtures and I really want to get rid of it.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Ok, so the plan is to have 30 PAR at the bottom most of the time with the ability to add a high light period whenever you want. Did I get that right?


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Yes.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Then it will have to be a fixture that has 2 groups. Each group should be dimmable because Group 1 will run at lower intensity and Group 2 cannot be mounted way higher. The fixture will have more PAR than you will ever want.

But I'm speaking from the experience of making that first fixture. There could be a simpler way. Let me ask the guy that guided me through all that.


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