# Inert Soil + EI Dosing = ?



## Tihsho (Nov 4, 2015)

Hey all, it's been years since I've even put inert substrates in a tank. While picking up some PFS that I saw in one of DutchMutch's tanks I was considering using some for a 'simple' tank, but was curious if EI dosing would be enough? I know root feeders, such as Echinodorus or Cryptocornes will have limited (if any) success, but with stems, I wasn't sure if I could get away with just EI and CO2? 

Thoughts?

Being that this was a thought for a display in my living room, I'd prefer not going MGOPS with a cap as this white PFS is just going to get covered with dirt overtime and it's not exactly easy to keep clean.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

Inert Soil + EI Dosing = success

I always do inert substrate. All my tanks have it, etc. Except 1 tank I have dirted. Which also turned out 10/10.

EI dosing is definitely "enough" since it provides an excess amount of both micro and macro nutrients to plants. Root tabs are not needed, matter o' fact im actually against the use of them for a few reasons (ex. uncontrolled amount of released nutrients = mess). But they are Simply and beyond not needed in a EI tank- or really any tank (imo).

Burr did a experiment (cant find the link, if someone else could that'd be amazing) That explained how root tabs simply dont make much of a difference at all, and he did that in a EI tank w/ inert substrate (end result was no difference in growth, setups where Exactly the same chemically and physically) 
Ei + co2 + inert = success
Ei + Co2 + inert + root tabs = risky success
Ei + inert = 75% success
Ei + co2 + Amazonia = success

Maybe that helps a bit. 
Here is a link, dennis wong explains this in Very much further detail I suggest it to you: 
https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/defining-good-substrate.html
https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/adv_nutrients.html
he also did an article on root tabs:
https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/fertilisers-root-or-water.html


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## Tihsho (Nov 4, 2015)

Based on the cation exchange is there such thing as 'priming' an inert substrate?


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## Maryland Guppy (Mar 5, 2015)

Tihsho said:


> Based on the cation exchange is there such thing as 'priming' an inert substrate?


No


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## Tihsho (Nov 4, 2015)

Easy enough. Thanks!


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## Maryland Guppy (Mar 5, 2015)

If you try to charge an inert substrate with 0% CEC it will just be relaesed into the water column immediately.


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## Reediculous_nanotank (Jan 12, 2019)

Just stumbled accross this topic and it sparked a potentially dumb question, haha:

Is the difference between an inert and an active substrate primarily its cation exchange capacity? And perhaps relatedly, does everything with a cation exchange capacity also hold nutrients that are available to plant roots (before it has absorbed cations from the water column, such as how laterite has significant amounts of iron, even before it has been used in a fertilized tank)?

Or is inert vs. active only judged on the basis of nutrients being present and available in the substrate?


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## Maryland Guppy (Mar 5, 2015)

Reediculous_nanotank said:


> Is the difference between an inert and an active substrate primarily its cation exchange capacity?
> 
> And perhaps relatedly, does everything with a cation exchange capacity also hold nutrients that are available to plant roots (before it has absorbed cations from the water column, such as how laterite has significant amounts of iron, even before it has been used in a fertilized tank)?
> 
> Or is inert vs. active only judged on the basis of nutrients being present and available in the substrate?


Inert potentially will absorb nothing and release nothing.
Active (depending on substrate) could release, absorb, and/or both.
e.g. Aquasoil will release NH3 and reduce KH.

The intent of a CEC substrate is that compounds will be consumed by the substrate and be available to plants roots.

Many times we see a soil/substrate's composition listed and these compound/elements may not be available for plant uptake.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Many times we see a soil/substrate's composition listed and these compound/elements may not be available for plant uptake.


For example, a rock can contain most of the nutrients, but none of them are available to the plants. Plants need ions, like Na+, NH4+, etc., which require the compounds to dissolve in the water.


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## Reediculous_nanotank (Jan 12, 2019)

Ok, thanks for answering my question. Do substrates like Seachem flourite red have nutrients that are available to plants? I recently saw a YouTuber claiming that such a substrate would be ideal for supplying iron, and I am wondering if their statement was accurate.


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## Maryland Guppy (Mar 5, 2015)

Reediculous_nanotank said:


> Ok, thanks for answering my question. Do substrates like Seachem flourite red have nutrients that are available to plants? I recently saw a YouTuber claiming that such a substrate would be ideal for supplying iron, and I am wondering if their statement was accurate.


Seachem flourite is so low on the CEC rating chart it may as well be "zero".
Doubtful it will supply little if any nutrients to plants.

SafeTSorb looks the same and has a very high CEC rating.

Everything on YouTube is true of course! :bounce::bounce::bounce:


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## Reediculous_nanotank (Jan 12, 2019)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Seachem flourite is so low on the CEC rating chart it may as well be "zero".
> Doubtful it will supply little if any nutrients to plants.
> 
> SafeTSorb looks the same and has a very high CEC rating.
> ...


Very interesting, I would have never thought that, and it seems safTsorb has a lot of horticultural uses. I have heard of bonsai hobbying using it in their soil mixes too.

My main question is still if Fluorite can be considered to supply nutrients (let's say micros and trace elements) without first being "enriched" by being used in a fertilized water column. It doesn't have much to do CEC.


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## Yorkie (Sep 8, 2014)

DutchMuch said:


> Inert Soil + EI Dosing = success
> 
> I always do inert substrate. All my tanks have it, etc. Except 1 tank I have dirted. Which also turned out 10/10.


Hi DutchMuch,

I am planning to have an inert substrate in the tank that I'm just setting up. I'm not new to fishkeeping and planted tanks. I will not be going down the EI route. By adjusting light intensity and spectrum, I will then adjust CO2 and ferts dosing accordingly. Does that sound workable/OK?

Yorkie


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Reediculous_nanotank said:


> Very interesting, I would have never thought that, and it seems safTsorb has a lot of horticultural uses. I have heard of bonsai hobbying using it in their soil mixes too.
> 
> My main question is still if Fluorite can be considered to supply nutrients (let's say micros and trace elements) without first being "enriched" by being used in a fertilized water column. It doesn't have much to do CEC.


Flourite is an inert substrate, which will not supply any of the needed nutrients. The first thing that has to happen before a "rock" can supply nutrients is for some part of the rock to dissolve in the water. That makes the elements in the rock become ions, and plants can only use ions. But, Flourite does not do that.


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## Yorkie (Sep 8, 2014)

DutchMuch said:


> Inert Soil + EI Dosing = success
> 
> I always do inert substrate. All my tanks have it, etc. Except 1 tank I have dirted. Which also turned out 10/10.


Hi DutchMuch,

I'm relieved to read what you have said above. You talk about 'Inert Soil' and 'inert substrate'. I think of 'inert substrate' as sand or gravel, for example. I think of 'Inert Soil' as sterilized garden soil. Are you using these terms in this way?

I am planning to use a substrate comprised of only coarse sand (1-2 mm grain size). I don't want to go the EI route as I am unable to carry out 50% weekly water changes. Instead, I will make measurements of key nutrients (as required) and then top up nutrients, as necessary.

Yesterday, I stumbled across a statement made by Diana Walstad in her book _Ecology of the Planted Aquarium_ in which she says "Tanks with pure gravel substrates are hopeless for growing aquarium plants". This is in the Feb 2020 Revision on page 137.

Over the last couple of weeks, I have started a new aquarium. The substrate is in place and 50 litres of water is already in there. I don't want to remove these - obviously - but Diana Walstad's comment is making me wonder how best to proceed. Any thoughts?

Yorkie


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Many of us have had very successful tanks using inert substrates and dosing the needed nutrients into the water. It is easier to be successful if you follow the El Natural method described in Diana Walstad's book, but that doesn't mean you can't be successful with a different method. Whether you start over or not is up to you.


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## Yorkie (Sep 8, 2014)

hoppycalif said:


> Many of us have had very successful tanks using inert substrates and dosing the needed nutrients into the water. It is easier to be successful if you follow the El Natural method described in Diana Walstad's book, but that doesn't mean you can't be successful with a different method. Whether you start over or not is up to you.


Many thanks for your reassuring feedback. Based on what you have said, it seems odd that Diana Walstad would say "Tanks with pure gravel substrates are hopeless for growing aquarium plants". I do hope she replies to this thread in order to explain why she made this statement.

Yorkie


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