# [Wet Thumb Forum]-30 gal natural setup... any advice?



## sacha (Sep 11, 2005)

Hello everyone,

Wow, what a resource this forum is! I found it just in time, because I’m setting up my first aquarium ever, and doing it low-tech (except for lighting). The “Ecology of the Planted Aquarium” (Wow, incredible book!) has me on the track I want, but I lack the experience to work out some set-up details. I have some thoughts on substrate, lighting, etc that I’d like to run by you folks before I splurge. I’m willing to put up with a little trial and error with the substrate, but lighting is a big investment and I want to do it right. I’m aware that each question I have could have been a separate Topic, but I also couldn’t figure out how to break up this post because the whole aquarium is so inter-connected!

Goal: I want to create an Amazon planted community tank. I’m not worrying about plant and fish details yet, but since any setup advice might depend on what I’m planning, I’ll include some of what I’ve been thinking: I’ll probably need moderate and low light plants (depending on light, my options are listed below). As for fish, I’ll be aiming for a docile bunch, selecting a moderate population that could include tetras, angels (how old are they when they outgrow a 24x12x24” tank anyway?), a couple dwarf cichlids, cory cats, hatchets... I don’t need to breed any fish, but if I happen to get a stable low pH and GH (sounds tough with a Walstad setup) it would be neat to try.

I was given a 24x12x24 in. (30gal extra-high, I think) aquarium, which at first had me nervous about light penetration, but I’m thinking about maintaining the water a few inches below the top and having some emergent plants.

Substrate:
• Miracle Grow Enriched (0.18, 0.06, 0.12); 1.5” deep. (already have that laying around, yeah, I’ll be fishing for perlite)
• Fine gravel (Estes’ Nature Stones, seems 2-3mm); 1.5” deep. I want a darker natural look and don’t feel up to experimenting with sand. Will this coated gravel be a problem? I can’t remember where I read that it wasn’t a good idea. Are there other options?
• The catch: my (city) tap-water is pH=7 and GH=1.5. Part of me wants to put some crushed shells in the soil (to be on the safe side with plant nutrition), but the other part of me wants to experiment with low pH/GH environment (Amazonian). Does *anybody* have experience with natural low pH/GH aquariums? I’ve seen plenty of green plants growing in tannin-rich swamps in the Amazon (well, where the light actually reached the water, and I’m not sure how fast they were growing, either), but finding small suitable (grow *well* in low pH/GH) plants locally might be tough.

Lighting: I was also given an “AllGlass” 24” hood with 15W bulb; that’s not *nearly* enough. I’ve listed the other options I’ve found below. Each would also need a glass aquarium cover ($12). I’ve included what I *think* are the best bulb options for each setup. I could probably make any of these more efficient by enhancing the reflector. The tank is about 2m away from my only (west-facing) window but doesn’t get direct light (might get a little come May/June). My potted plants and I cherish the window light, so I’m not sure if I want to block it with the tank. The choices I’ve found:
1. “AllGlass” 24” twin tube strip, 30W ($40) (GE full spectrum $8)
2. Lighting store 24” twin tube strip, 40W ($38) (combine 4100K and 6500K, $9 each)
3. Lighting store 24” triple tube strip, 60W (waiting for a quote, same bulbs as above)
4. Aqualight freshwater 24” single strip compact fluorescent, 65W ($60) (6700K, $28)
5. Same as above but double strip, 130W ($140)
My thoughts on those choices:
#1: I don’t think so, not enough “umpf”
#2: 40W might not be enough, unless I fill my tank with only 20 gallons to have about 2W/gal. 
#3: Reflector is 16” wide, and would over-reach my 12”-wide tank. 3 bulbs to replace, ugh.
#4: I think it’s the best option/compromise, it definitely fits, simple. Does bulb life make the price worth it?
#5: Is the extra “umpf” worth the extra price?

I was given a penguin biowheel 170 (for a 50gal tank) and a bunch of replacement filters, but I can’t see how it could be useful in my tank. I therefore plan to get a Hagen AquaClear, with micro filter padding (mentioned in recent forum posts) for filtering and water movement and to have a QuickFilter on hand for tough jobs (like maybe ich). This way I can also have a lower water level in my tank.

So to sum up my biggest questions:
1. Is the gravel I picked ok, or is there a better option?
2. Should I put the crushed shells (or equivalent) into the soil?
3. Is the compact fluorescent the way to go? Is 65W good for this tank? How much would I need if I used the window?

And of course, any suggestions are more than welcome! Thanks!


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## sacha (Sep 11, 2005)

Hello everyone,

Wow, what a resource this forum is! I found it just in time, because I’m setting up my first aquarium ever, and doing it low-tech (except for lighting). The “Ecology of the Planted Aquarium” (Wow, incredible book!) has me on the track I want, but I lack the experience to work out some set-up details. I have some thoughts on substrate, lighting, etc that I’d like to run by you folks before I splurge. I’m willing to put up with a little trial and error with the substrate, but lighting is a big investment and I want to do it right. I’m aware that each question I have could have been a separate Topic, but I also couldn’t figure out how to break up this post because the whole aquarium is so inter-connected!

Goal: I want to create an Amazon planted community tank. I’m not worrying about plant and fish details yet, but since any setup advice might depend on what I’m planning, I’ll include some of what I’ve been thinking: I’ll probably need moderate and low light plants (depending on light, my options are listed below). As for fish, I’ll be aiming for a docile bunch, selecting a moderate population that could include tetras, angels (how old are they when they outgrow a 24x12x24” tank anyway?), a couple dwarf cichlids, cory cats, hatchets... I don’t need to breed any fish, but if I happen to get a stable low pH and GH (sounds tough with a Walstad setup) it would be neat to try.

I was given a 24x12x24 in. (30gal extra-high, I think) aquarium, which at first had me nervous about light penetration, but I’m thinking about maintaining the water a few inches below the top and having some emergent plants.

Substrate:
• Miracle Grow Enriched (0.18, 0.06, 0.12); 1.5” deep. (already have that laying around, yeah, I’ll be fishing for perlite)
• Fine gravel (Estes’ Nature Stones, seems 2-3mm); 1.5” deep. I want a darker natural look and don’t feel up to experimenting with sand. Will this coated gravel be a problem? I can’t remember where I read that it wasn’t a good idea. Are there other options?
• The catch: my (city) tap-water is pH=7 and GH=1.5. Part of me wants to put some crushed shells in the soil (to be on the safe side with plant nutrition), but the other part of me wants to experiment with low pH/GH environment (Amazonian). Does *anybody* have experience with natural low pH/GH aquariums? I’ve seen plenty of green plants growing in tannin-rich swamps in the Amazon (well, where the light actually reached the water, and I’m not sure how fast they were growing, either), but finding small suitable (grow *well* in low pH/GH) plants locally might be tough.

Lighting: I was also given an “AllGlass” 24” hood with 15W bulb; that’s not *nearly* enough. I’ve listed the other options I’ve found below. Each would also need a glass aquarium cover ($12). I’ve included what I *think* are the best bulb options for each setup. I could probably make any of these more efficient by enhancing the reflector. The tank is about 2m away from my only (west-facing) window but doesn’t get direct light (might get a little come May/June). My potted plants and I cherish the window light, so I’m not sure if I want to block it with the tank. The choices I’ve found:
1. “AllGlass” 24” twin tube strip, 30W ($40) (GE full spectrum $8)
2. Lighting store 24” twin tube strip, 40W ($38) (combine 4100K and 6500K, $9 each)
3. Lighting store 24” triple tube strip, 60W (waiting for a quote, same bulbs as above)
4. Aqualight freshwater 24” single strip compact fluorescent, 65W ($60) (6700K, $28)
5. Same as above but double strip, 130W ($140)
My thoughts on those choices:
#1: I don’t think so, not enough “umpf”
#2: 40W might not be enough, unless I fill my tank with only 20 gallons to have about 2W/gal. 
#3: Reflector is 16” wide, and would over-reach my 12”-wide tank. 3 bulbs to replace, ugh.
#4: I think it’s the best option/compromise, it definitely fits, simple. Does bulb life make the price worth it?
#5: Is the extra “umpf” worth the extra price?

I was given a penguin biowheel 170 (for a 50gal tank) and a bunch of replacement filters, but I can’t see how it could be useful in my tank. I therefore plan to get a Hagen AquaClear, with micro filter padding (mentioned in recent forum posts) for filtering and water movement and to have a QuickFilter on hand for tough jobs (like maybe ich). This way I can also have a lower water level in my tank.

So to sum up my biggest questions:
1. Is the gravel I picked ok, or is there a better option?
2. Should I put the crushed shells (or equivalent) into the soil?
3. Is the compact fluorescent the way to go? Is 65W good for this tank? How much would I need if I used the window?

And of course, any suggestions are more than welcome! Thanks!


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## MyraVan (Feb 13, 2005)

I'm pretty new to planted and natural aquaria myself (have one 20 gallon tank at home and one 5 gallon tank in the office), so I'm no expert. But I think that the Miracle Grow stuff you're planning on using isn't a good idea. All that fertilizer stuff they put in it won't work well in your tank. What you want is plain soil, with no fertilizer, just some plain organic matter.

Everything else sounds fine. The compact fluorescent single tube sounds great. I think 40W would be far too little, considering that your tank is so tall. The double CF tube would be far too much light. Unless you added tons of aquatic plant fertilizers and Carbon Dioxide, all you'd end up with is a very good crop of algae!

I have no experience with low pH: our water here has a pH of 7.8, and I'm happy to simply keep fish/plants/other animals (have recently gotten into snails) that live well with that.


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## kenmeyer (Jul 31, 2004)

I use Miracle Grow .18, 0.06, 0.12 in all my tanks. It works great except for the perlite floaters every know and then that have to be scooped out. I wouldnt use the gravel with coating Ive read in several places that it isnt very good for planted tanks but i have no experience with this my self.


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## sacha (Sep 11, 2005)

I found another affordable light option on AH Supply. They've got Compact Fluorescent kits and good instructions for very good prices! Although it is a DIY kit and gives 55W (not 65W) it's reflector seems better, and it's only $42 and bulbs (6700K) are only $19.


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## superjohnny (Jul 31, 2004)

> quote:AH Supply. They've got Compact Fluorescent kits and good instructions for very good prices! Although it is a DIY kit and gives 55W (not 65W) it's reflector


I'd look at getting a different tank before you start. 24" tall tanks are hard to light at the bottom and 12" wide tanks are hard to aquascape.

You're on the right track with AHsupply though, they make nice stuff.


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Most people will recommend staying away from the enriched potting soil - kenmeyer you are the first I've heard who likes using it -- so I would say the jury is still out on that one. For what it's worth, potting soil is very inexpensive, and if you go to home depot or lowes you can pick up a bag that doesn't have perlite or foam balls or anything. You can get pure peat if you so desire. I wouldn't limit myself to whatever potting soil I have "laying around". Just remember to presoak it so that it sinks when you put it in the tank. Floating potting soil is annoying.

About the crushed coral, you could always follow the Walstad approach and run a trial in 2-liter soda bottles with the plants you are considering. It takes patience, but the experience will pay big dividends later on when you "get it right" the first time with the actual tank.

I would go with CF lighting just for simplicity (although somewhat costlier). In this case you could probably get by just fine without using window light. I have a mini aqualight and it's a well-made product so I suspect that the aqualight will do well for you. The ahsupply has better reflectors, which may be important for you with your deep tank. Might be a little pricier though. I have 5000 K and 6700 K bulbs which seem to grow my plants very well. I didn't find lower K bulbs to work as well in my experience.

Adding soil will mitigate many of the drawbacks of the painted aquarium gravel. However, a more natural, rough, unpainted gravel will have more nooks and crannies for bacteria and stuff to colonize, improving the ecological function of the substrate (see Walstad's book). Paint can also flake off over time if it's disturbed and leave your rocks looking funny. But if you're not using the gravel vacuum much that might not be a problem.

Whatever you do with filtration, try to minimize the surface agitation from the return flow. With a hang on back filter and a lowered water level, this might be substantial. You can rig up some plastic sheet to allow the water to cascade gently back to the tank. I know a lot of the low-tech experts use the quick filter exclusively for filtration with no worries ( click here). This might be the simplest solution in your case.


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## sacha (Sep 11, 2005)

I have choice of a 20gal (16" high) or a 25gal (20" high) tank to replace the 30gal (24" high). If I want some emergent plants should I go with the 25gal, or is it safer to go with the 20gal? Would it make a difference how many fish I can have (I want hatchets too). I'll be using compact fluorescent lighting (55W or 65W)


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## superjohnny (Jul 31, 2004)

I didn't have any luck with emergent plants. They'd grow toward my 96w light and when they got there they'd burn underneath it.

Sorry, i'm not trying to be a downer


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## imported_BobB (Feb 26, 2005)

Sacha-If you are going for low light Amazonian plants.hmmmm....how much light do they require?
That might be the deciding factor in which light to buy. Also if you go with emergents you might not want all that heat burning off the tops, as SuperJ mentioned. On the other hand it's an easy way to keep them pruned.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Wow! You've gotten a lot of advice from fellow hobbyists that should be useful.

I would agree with Littleguy about not using Miracle Grow for the substrate. Too rich.

Coated gravel should be fine. Soil mitigates any deficiencies (mostly lack of attachment sites for bacteria) that coated gravel might have. 

With a GH that low, I would buy either buy soil enriched with calcium, or I would mix some lime or crushed shells with the soil.

Maintaining a softwater tank is tricky. Do the easy thing first. Planted tanks are hard enough without making it more difficult for yourself.

I would go with the 20 gal long if this is your first tank. It's shallow enough that emergent plants like Water Sprite can root in soil with tops above the water. This is a dynamite combination, as plant gets substrate nutrients, good lighting and air CO2.


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