# CO2 injection setup help



## lakerat37 (Aug 4, 2005)

OK, I just spent the big bucks on a pressurized CO2 injection.

http://aquariumplant.com/cgi-bin/cart/PR1026.html

The instructions that came with the equipment still leave allot of unanswered questions, so if someone would be kind enough to help I would really appreciate it. Here are my questions:

1. Does the probe stay submerged in the tank 24/7? (I believe thats the way it should work, but there are no instructions except after successfully connecting everything "you are now ready to take measurements").
2. Does the Rio power head plug into the supplied timer? There are no instructions for the use of the timer.
3. Again I am assuming that the controller (Milwaukee SMS122) controls the injection, but at what flow rate should I set the injection? The only reference to this question was to set the low pressure at 10psi using the adjustment knob. I really thought the flow was way too strong in the bubble counter. 
4. I am also assuming that the solenoid plugs into the controller plug...is that correct?

I am sure one of you can help me with these questions. This system is for my 90gal tank. I just filled it 2 days ago and have not yet planted anything in it. I am going to let it cycle for 2 weeks before adding a few plants, so should I wait on the CO2 injection until I have vegetation in the tank, or will it help cycle the tank?

Thank you, Ken :-s


----------



## KLB (Aug 16, 2005)

lakerat37 said:


> 1. Does the probe stay submerged in the tank 24/7? (I believe thats the way it should work, but there are no instructions except after successfully connecting everything "you are now ready to take measurements").


Typically you leave the probe in the tank 24/7 monitoring the pH. Most probes have to be kept wet constantly, you can tell if your probe came with the tip stuck in a soaking bottle of solution then it needs to always be wet.



lakerat37 said:


> 2. Does the Rio power head plug into the supplied timer? There are no instructions for the use of the timer.


Usually folks run their co2 during lights on photo period as that is the only time plants are consuming co2. For me, even though I have a dual stage co2 controller, I just use it for monitoring the co2 levels during the day adjusting co2 input by the needle valve on your co2 gauge and have timers turn the co2 on an hour before lights come on and then turn the co2 solenoid valve off at lights off. Not used that specific sytem you bought, but my guess is to use the timer for both the co2 valve and the reactor. Not even sure that Milwaukee offers control functions or how useful they are, but if it did, I guess you could use the Milwaukee controller to turn the solenoid valve on and off as pH required and have the reactor on a timer for lights on and off.
3. Again I am assuming that the controller (Milwaukee SMS122) controls the injection, but at what flow rate should I set the injection? The only reference to this question was to set the low pressure at 10psi using the adjustment knob. I really thought the flow was way too strong in the bubble counter.



lakerat37 said:


> 4. I am also assuming that the solenoid plugs into the controller plug...is that correct?


It can be run this way but I have not found it necessary to do so. One timer running a power strip for both the reactor and the solenoid valve or run the co2 24/7 being metered by the controller, your call.



lakerat37 said:


> I am sure one of you can help me with these questions. This system is for my 90gal tank. I just filled it 2 days ago and have not yet planted anything in it. I am going to let it cycle for 2 weeks before adding a few plants, so should I wait on the CO2 injection until I have vegetation in the tank, or will it help cycle the tank?
> 
> Thank you, Ken :-s


Well, you need some form of organic material from plants and fish to begin a cycle. Water in a tank with lights and co2 and no competition for nutrients is an algae farm. Just went through what you are with a new tank and you really need to start the process off with a fairly decent bio plant load. I tried to do it on the cheap and wasted a week before realizing the algae was gonna win. Went out bought a ton of plants and a week later everything is growing like mad and the red plants are finally a nice deep red.

Good luck,

Ken


----------



## KLB (Aug 16, 2005)

lakerat37 said:


> 3. Again I am assuming that the controller (Milwaukee SMS122) controls the injection, but at what flow rate should I set the injection? The only reference to this question was to set the low pressure at 10psi using the adjustment knob. I really thought the flow was way too strong in the bubble counter.


Missed this one. Not the best to answer this but will give it a shot. For me, I started with alot of fast growing stem plants that had the ability to live in pH of around 5.5-7. I have heard that keeping the pH around 6.5 reduces algae growth so that is where I have been keeping mine at (you will have slight variances throughout the day depending on light and the respiration of your plants). The needle valve below the bubble counter is tricky to set, just practice a bit. I have mine set at about forty bubbles a minute on my 20 gallon with a KH of about 5, this gives me around 47 ppm of co2 which my plants love. Since I have no fish and am trying to establish the plant load first, not sure how fish would react to this level of co2 and would have to watch and adjust as needed to find a ballance. Hope this helps.

Ken


----------



## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

lakerat37 said:


> 1. Does the probe stay submerged in the tank 24/7? (I believe thats the way it should work, but there are no instructions except after successfully connecting everything "you are now ready to take measurements").


The probe should stay in the tank 24/7. You only need to remove it to clean or calibrate it.



lakerat37 said:


> 2. Does the Rio power head plug into the supplied timer? There are no instructions for the use of the timer.


It could be plugged into the timer but you want to have the powerhead running anytime the CO2 is on. You can and probably should run the powerhead 24/7.



lakerat37 said:


> 3. Again I am assuming that the controller (Milwaukee SMS122) controls the injection, but at what flow rate should I set the injection? The only reference to this question was to set the low pressure at 10psi using the adjustment knob. I really thought the flow was way too strong in the bubble counter.


The controller is made to control the CO2 injection into the tank. I would set the flow rate fairly fast but this will depend on the efficiency of your reactor. Again, the flow will be shut off by the controller when it reaches the pH point you select by using the KH/pH relationship chart or by using a calculator to figure out your CO2 levels. You use the needle valve (little round knob) to the right of the bubble counter to control the bubble rate in the bubble counter.



lakerat37 said:


> 4. I am also assuming that the solenoid plugs into the controller plug...is that correct?


The instructions that come with the SMS-122 should give you all of the info for setting up the SMS-122. The main plug (the one with the male and female 3 pronged outlets) should go to your power source, preferably a surge protector. You can then plug your timer into the female receptacle on the main plug of the SMS-122. The solenoid plug on the regulator then plugs into the timer. This setup will allow you to keep the SMS-122 powered 24/7 so you can get pH readings anytime but will shut off the CO2 at night with your lights, assuming you have a timer for your lights also. You can also skip the timer and let the controller keep your CO2 steady 24/7 You can then use your timer for the lights. Folks run it both ways.

As you can see, there are many ways to set up the system which is probably why there are no instructions for setting it up. If you are looking for a best way to set it up, that is up to you. I have ran my controller on a timer and not on a timer. I'm not sure which way is best for me yet. Both ways work!



lakerat37 said:


> I am sure one of you can help me with these questions. This system is for my 90gal tank. I just filled it 2 days ago and have not yet planted anything in it. I am going to let it cycle for 2 weeks before adding a few plants, so should I wait on the CO2 injection until I have vegetation in the tank, or will it help cycle the tank?


Why not just plant the tank heavily from the start, fertilize well and get your CO2 set-up and running smooth. Plants don't need a cycled tank and if you don't put some sort of fish waste or ammonia into the tank it isn't going to cycle anyways. This will allow you to crank the CO2 and add plenty of fertilizers to make sure you get your plants off to a great start. Without fish in the tank you won't have to worry about overdosing on the CO2 while you are learning.

Get a lot of plants to start out...more than you think you will want. Make sure they are fast growers like Bacopa carolinia, Cerataphyllum demersum, Ceratopteris thalictroides, Sagittaria species, etc. You can always trade them to folks starting up new tanks in the future when you get tired of them..they don't have to stay in the tank forever 

You can do a search on the Plant Finder at the top of the page. Select the hardiness category and then select easy or very easy plants. Search for the plants that have either fast or very fast growth. Once the tank has been set up for a couple of months and the plants are growing you can cut back the CO2 to 30ppm or so and start to add fish. This should give you plenty of time to "practice" fertilizing and adding CO2 with no risk of injury to your fish. This will also give you some time to do some research on more plants and figure out what yo like and don't like.

Check out Aquabid for some good starter plants or go to some of our sponsors and get a package. I had good luck with: http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/

Don asked for info about my tank and then tailored a plant package for my tank. I still have many of the plants he first sold me almost 2 hears ago. Most of the fast growers have been traded/given away by now though


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Welcome to you both!

Here's a brief how-to and how-works:

As you add CO2 it acidifies the water and that lowers the pH. After determining the KH of your tank water and consulting a CO2/KH/pH relationship chart http://www.sfbaaps.com/reference/table_01.shtml to determine the ideal pH (and hence, CO2 level) set your controller to that pH. If the controller detects a pH higher than what it is set at it will cause the solenoid to open and release CO2 into the tank. Once the pH reaches the desired level the monitor with close the solenoid and stop CO2 injection. This will maintain a fairly consistent pH and CO2 level in the tank.

1. Keep the probe in the tank at all times in an area of good circulation to ensure the most precise reading. Precision is important because if the monitor detects faulty levels it could continue CO2 injection to toxic levels.

2. The solenoid gets plugged directly into the pH controller and not a power strip.

3. The timer is for your lights where the blue knobs indicate on and the red indicate off. Set them 10 hours apart to give your tank an appropriate photoperiod.

4. Those Plantguild reactors are fairly effective, set your bubble rate to 2 bubbles per second. This is dependant on your KH. You'll need more gas injected at higher KH. Observe your controller to see how often it turns the solenoid on/off to get an idea of how fast you need to be injecting. If it's on all the time it probably means that you're not getting enough CO2 into the system. Slowly increase the bubble rate until the controller shuts the solenoid off. Go in increments of half a bubble every second, ie from 2/sec to 5/2 sec. If you have a metronome from music lessons use that, they work great for timing bubbles.  *Do this slowly, it will take some time for the increase to affect the entire tank* It may take days if you're far off the mark.

5. The powerhead should stay on at all times. Frequent on/off will burn a Rio out faster than anything. The only thing you want turning on/off regularly are the lights and solenoid.

6. Have the system up and ready the day before you get plants. Moniter the pH to see how quickly it drops in relation to the amount of CO2 going into the tank. Have the pH set at the ideal level when the plants arrive to avoid problems with a lack of CO2. Wait at least a week after the plants are in before adding fish to the tank to make sure everything is running smoothly.

I hope this has helped,
Phil


----------



## lakerat37 (Aug 4, 2005)

WOW, Thankx for the great information from all of you. One more question: is there an economical way to measure CO2 absorbed into the water,or is the ph a suitable measurement?

thankx again, Ken


----------



## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Measuring the pH and Kh is the best way to to figure out your CO2 levels.


----------



## lakerat37 (Aug 4, 2005)

Phil, I was studying the PH/KH/CO2 chart and I am not sure I understand the values in the KH column. My test kit shows I have a reading of 80mg/l. How does this convert to the values on the chart?

Thankx, Ken  

P.S. I have everything up and running and it seems to be working great!!

Thanks to everyones help!!!!!!!


----------



## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

ppm to degrees = 17.86 so 80/17.86= 4.5 degrees, so add enough CO2 gas only(do not add any bufferes etc) to maintain a pH of 6.7. Keep it the when the lights are on.

I'm afraid that little Reactor ain't going to cut it for a 90 gal, You will need to place it in an area of high flow and downward current, might decide to use 2 also, I have DIY plans, that design was taken from my old design but mine is better.

See:

http://www.barrreport.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=6

A little better designed, has a venturi loop which will crank out more gas, no need for the sponge thing which reduces flow rates, looks ugly, falls out etc.

This cost about 2-3$ and then a 9-10$ powerhead and about 15 minutres of work.

You can plug the powerheads into the same plug as the solenoid, so the powerheads will stop as well as the CO2 gas flow at the same time.

This will relase the detritus and plant leaves that might clogged the powerheads if they run 24/7.

Also, I never add CO2 at night, there is no need for it and it does not help a tank.

To calibrate the pH probe, add the probe to the pH 4 ref solution, use the screwdriver included to adjust the reading to a pH of precisely 4, next rinse with DI water, then do the same for the pH 7 solution.

Rinse, add to tank, the pH probe is now calibrated, recalibrate monthly or as needed.

Always check the CO2 if anything seems wrong in the tank or a reduced level of pearling, anything dramatic.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## lakerat37 (Aug 4, 2005)

Great help!!!

Thankx, Ken


----------

