# My 120g Crypt tank



## bharada

I started this tank last March (I have a journal on it on my web site--link is in my sig). Initial stocking consisted of wendtii 'bronze' (left back), lutea (left mid), willisii (left front), parva (center foreground), nurii, pygmaea and undulata (right center), petchii (right front), balansae and spiralis (right back). Here it is at its inception...









Here it is today. Over the past year I added some moehlmannii (center), pontertoriifolia (right side), wendtii 'Green Gecko' (right foreground), and a cordata 'Rosanervig'.

Over the year the nurii got lost amongst the moehlmannii and petchii. I haven't seen the undulata and pygmaea in a long time, too. :icon_frow









Here's the 'Rosanervig', which after four months still shows no sign of any veining let alone pink ones (although another one I have in a 20g tank with AquaSoil is developing muted veining).









This tank has turned into another example of how spending a lot of time planning your hardscape is futile, as only the underside of the plants ever see it.


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## hooha

lol, true dat. I like the look though, looks very 'low maintenance' 

What is your fert schedule? Any CO2?


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## bharada

I have a dosing solution I mix up for the dosing pumps on my 125g tank. I pour 90ml in 2x a week...I think it ends up being about 50ppm of NO3 and 5ppm of PO4...but I don't bother checking. lol I also add about 75ml of Flourish 2x a week.

The tank does have pressurized CO2 and the T-5 lights run 2 bulbs for 10 hours and all four for 4 hours mid-day.

So the hardware is high tech, but the tank maintenance consists of weekly removal of dead/dying leaves and bi-weekly 50% water changes. Oh, and the occasional removal of excess Crypts. haha


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## HeyPK

This is a good opportunity to compare pontederiifolia and moehlmannii, since you have both of them growing in the same tank under similar conditions. What differences do you see between the two species?


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## Kai Witte

That pretty much looks like the opposite of a 'Rosanervig'... 

However, it doesn't seem happy and changing some factors may turn it into a nice cordata. Have you tried any root feeding?


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## AaronT

That's a sweet tank Bill. How soft is the water in there? I wonder if that's the issue with the cordata 'Rosanervig'?


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## LindaC

Your tank looks very nice, I like the looks of all your crypts! I had a crypt petchi that died on me and now I must get another one. I find that your bronze wendtii looks a lot like my petchi did.


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## Xema

Really nice!!!


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## bharada

Thanks, everyone.



HeyPK said:


> This is a good opportunity to compare pontederiifolia and moehlmannii, since you have both of them growing in the same tank under similar conditions. What differences do you see between the two species?


Paul, here are the moehlmannii and ponterderifolia side-by-side...
















The pontederifolia is a darker green and is more bullated (is that the proper term?).



Kai Witte said:


> That pretty much looks like the opposite of a 'Rosanervig'... :wink:
> 
> However, it doesn't seem happy and changing some factors may turn it into a nice cordata. Have you tried any root feeding?


I got this as a runner off of IanIwane's 'Rosanervig' and for a while none of us had any veining. But here's a pic of another runner from Ian, planted in my 20g tank with AquaSoil...









So it is the right plant, just not the right conditions in the 120.



AaronT said:


> That's a sweet tank Bill. How soft is the water in there? I wonder if that's the issue with the cordata 'Rosanervig'?


My water is hard, KH14+ and GH18+. So the fact that the 'Rosanervig' veined in the AquaSoil (as it did for Ian) may indicate that it prefers softer water to exhibit this characteristic.



LindaC said:


> Your tank looks very nice, I like the looks of all your crypts! I had a crypt petchi that died on me and now I must get another one. I find that your bronze wendtii looks a lot like my petchi did.


Linda, shoot me a PM and I'll pull some of the petchii for you.


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## ed seeley

That's an awesome tank.

I find it interesting that you have C.x willisi and C.parva side by side too! I'd love to see some close ups of those if you have them? It will help me definitely decide that I've got C.x willisi, not C.parva!!!

The lawn in the front looks great too. What species make it up?


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## HeyPK

Thanks, Bill, for the side by side views of _pontederiifolia_ and _moehlmannii_. The _pontederiifolia_ is definitely more bullated and, also, some of the leaves have a purplish tinge which is lacking in _moehlmannii_. I can't see the undersides of any of the leaves. Is there more of a pink or purple color on the undersides of the _pontederiifolia_ leaves than on the _moehlmannii _leaves?


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## DelawareJim

Very nice tank.

Cheers.
Jim


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## bharada

ed seeley said:


> That's an awesome tank.
> 
> I find it interesting that you have C.x willisi and C.parva side by side too! I'd love to see some close ups of those if you have them? It will help me definitely decide that I've got C.x willisi, not C.parva!!!
> 
> The lawn in the front looks great too. What species make it up?


Thanks, Ed. I don't have any good pics that show a diferentiation between the parva and willisii, mainly because the parva tends to grow under the willisii. New sprouts will look nearly identical, but as they get bigger the parva will stay very close to the substrate, and it's leaf size remains under 2" (petiole included). The willisii grows more upright with total leaf length getting to be more in the 3"-4" range (petiole included). I can assure you that I have far more willisii than parva.

The "lawn" on the right side are the C wendtii 'Green Gecko'. I got it in emersed form last December, and it's taking awhile to convert to submersed form. But the new growth is slowly coming in with the distinctive red leaf base.




















HeyPK said:


> Is there more of a pink or purple color on the undersides of the _pontederiifolia_ leaves than on the _moehlmannii _leaves?


Paul, you asked at just the right time as I'd just pulled these plants to give to Ian tomorrow.  You can see for yourself that the moehlmannii has a plain green underside while the pontederiifolia has purple/burgundy on its underside.


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## HeyPK

Very good! The two are plainly different, and easier to tell apart than I thought. Now I know for sure that I have both species (or varieties). I have the moehlmannii submersed and the pontederiifolia emersed, and it has not been possible to make a direct comparison. 

Thanks.


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## Kai Witte

Just a word of caution: It's not always that easy - in some aquaria pontederiifolia can look very much alike moehlmannii (low light, etc.). Moreover, although more and more populations of these crypts have come into culture we don't know enough of their variability yet and the lines between these crypts are already pretty blurred... There's also another contender with very similar vegetative growth: C. noritoi.

None of these new strains is commercially available yet (AFAIK) and moehlmannii is offered pretty rarely. Thus, if you got one of these crypts from a commercial source and it consistently shows some reddish coloration, you can assume it's pontederiifolia.


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## bharada

Kai,
At this point I'm beginning to classify my Crypts as wendtii-ish or non-wendtii-ish. 

The lutea, petchii, undulata, pygmaea (and of course, wendtii) are all in the wendtii-ish category. The moehlmannii, pontederiifolia, willisii, and parva fall into the non-wendtii-ish category.

I know, from a botanist's standpoint this is laughable. But from an aesthetics/aquascaping standpoint I find it pretty practical. haha

With Ibn obtaining some of your stock, who knows what exotic Crypts will be loosed upon (and mis-identified) by the local hobbiest community in the upcoming years. :lol:


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## Kai Witte

Hi Bill,

No problems with informal groups. Considering the bewildering diversity of the wendtii group I kinda doubt that they can all be lumped into a single group for practical purposes though... 

I sure hope (or rather expect  ) that you guys keep the full info along plants being spread around! It may sound a little pedantic but it sure helps to know the specific cultivar rather than just having some kind of red rose in the garden. Same with localities/collecting numbers to differentiate wild populations.


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## Kai Witte

Forgot to add links:

Cryptocoryne moehlmannii

Cryptocoryne noritoi

Cryptocoryne pontederiifolia
(the latter one needs a large update)


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## DelawareJim

Kai;

What always confuses me though is everyone states that if it has red colouration under the leaves it's pontederiifolia and if not it's moehlmannii.

But this picture of pontederiifolia from Jan's site has no red colouration underneath even though the flower is clearly a pontederiifolia flower.
http://www.nationaalherbarium.nl/Cryptocoryne/Gallery/pon/pon_NJ85-29_NJ_1257.jpg

Cheers.
Jim


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## bharada

Kai Witte said:


> Thus, if you got one of these crypts from a commercial source and it consistently shows some reddish coloration, you can assume it's pontederiifolia.


Jim,
I think that Kai's point was that if there's any red in the leaf you can assume it to be pontederiifolia. But if there is no red, you cannot make a positive ID between moehlmannii and pontederiifolia (and whatever new and exotic species are being discovered) without examining the flower.


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## Kai Witte

> I think that Kai's point was that if there's any red in the leaf you can assume it to be pontederiifolia. But if there is no red, you cannot make a positive ID between moehlmannii and pontederiifolia (and whatever new and exotic species are being discovered) without examining the flower.


Yep, that's pretty much it for the widely distributed clone of each crypt.

However, moehlmannii can show a little brownish hues on the leaf surface under certain, not well-defined conditions. So a little tinge may not be enough but in many cases pontederiifolia's reddish/bronze coloration is more obvious than that...


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## kirana1

Crypto moelhmannii
























Crypto pontederiifolia
























and how about this


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## DelawareJim

Is that last Crypt a moelhmannii or a pontederiifolia? I've never seen one so red/brown! Great looking plants.

Cheers.
Jim


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## kirana1

Jim,

i dont know weather moehlmannii or pontederiifolia, i got from my frend , but actualy its originally from sumatra ( jambi) and i call the crypto is Pontederiifolia Red jambi
the plant still dont have a flower, after i got the flower i will inform you.

and how about the first picture ? is it a moulhmannii or ponte. the flower is difference its not so yellow


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## DelawareJim

Oh, I'm not the one to ask about the difference between the two. I would need to physically see the two side-by-side and for someone like Sean or Kai to point out the differences between them.

Cheers.
Jim


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## rs79

Hey, maybe they're hostas. Har.


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