# Black water NPT



## mthom211 (Sep 3, 2010)

Hiya guys,

I'm soon to be setting up some tanks for wild betta species, I will have a ph of 3-5 depending on species. They will be in pure rainwater with heavy tannins. Can I still use the walstad method with such a low ph? If I put shell grit right at the bottom of the substrate will any leach out? I'm thinking of using crypts as the main plants, any other ideas?


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

mthom211 said:


> I will have a ph of 3-5 depending on species...using crypts as the main plants...


I guess the main issue will be plants in that pH range. I never tested my water, but most of the Crypts I've grown seem to do better with a little calcium in the ground, but even in one tank that is mostly organic with lots of tannins the Crypts are growing (though pretty slow).


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

I think that in the wild bettas live in water that is neutral to slightly acid, but the way we learn is to ask questions. So, why are you thinking about using such acid water?

I'd think that the water in the wild environment would have a relatively low GH and that would be more important than the pH, but again, perhaps you can enlighten me.

Thanks.

Bill


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## mthom211 (Sep 3, 2010)

I might put some shells in the bottom of the tank then. It depends whih species as to what ph they need but many come from peat bogs which have super low ph and its really dark. Al wild betta habitats should be acidic. I'll be focusing on the coccina complex and I will have some imbellis too. If teh water is to hard or the ph is too high they can get velvet and they don't do well at all.


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## Kai Witte (Jan 30, 2006)

> I might put some shells in the bottom of the tank then.


Nah, no limestone, no dolomite, nor snail/mussel shells for a SE Asian peatswamp forest (i. e. blackwater) tank. Avoid to bring in any calcium or magnesium sources (including unsuitable soil, tapwater, and even industrial fish food)! Granted, plants and all other organisms do need calcium and magnesium ions but blackwater species are very efficient in taking up trace amounts - any surplus just favors the opportunists rather than blackwater specialists.



> It depends whih species as to what ph they need but many come from peat bogs which have super low ph and its really dark. Al wild betta habitats should be acidic.


Of course there are several Betta species from limestone areas or other habitats with alkaline water; Many come from rainwater habitats with a pH of approx. 5.0-6.0; and some do come from peatswamp forests or heath forest habitats with very low pH (say 3.0-4.5).



> I'll be focusing on the coccina complex and I will have some imbellis too.


Most Betta imbellis come from rainwater habitats but a given population can have quite different preferences than what textbooks claim to be suitable. It's definitely preferable to research the origin (original collecting locality) for any Betta strain of interest and finetune the tank according to its natural habitat! All members of the coccina species group originate from peatswamp forests and do prefer a low pH as already stated. BTW, velvet can cope with low pH, too, (sometimes only the young offspring die) and it's IMHO worth extra efforts to obtain velvet-free Betta strains.


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## Kai Witte (Jan 30, 2006)

> I guess the main issue will be plants in that pH range. I never tested my water, but most of the Crypts I've grown seem to do better with a little calcium in the ground, but even in one tank that is mostly organic with lots of tannins the Crypts are growing (though pretty slow).


Like fish, not all crypts are born equal: There are limestone crypts, rainwater crypts, and blackwater crypts just to name the broad categories suitable for aquatic tanks. There are loads of other blackwater plants, too, but crypts are among those needing the least light which is generally preferable for blackwater fish breeding tanks (if only to keep electricity bills low).


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## Kai Witte (Jan 30, 2006)

> Can I still use the walstad method with such a low ph?


You can utilize some of the insights but I'd suggest that a natural blackwater tank needs a fairly different approach: I'm starting with only some acid beech (_Fagus_) leaf litter (strongly decomposed rather than fresh autumn leaves!), add ultrapure deionized water (RO water from cheap units may not be pure enough!) and throw in some blackwater crypts. Done.

It's that easy. To avoid issues with algae growth, I'd recommend a semi-dry start method: Make a slurry out of the soil and DI water (not more than 1 inch high) and place the crypts on top. The crypts will develop emersed leaves and water can be (carefully!) added once the slurry has been stabilized by the roots. Then add some autumn leaves, blackwater shrimps, fish ... and - presto - you have an instant peatswamp forest!



> If I put shell grit right at the bottom of the substrate will any leach out?


Definitely. A big no no!



> I'm thinking of using crypts as the main plants, any other ideas?


Barclaya is also sweet as are some others. However, I'd suggest to start out with crypts since these are pretty forgiving (despite widespread urban myths).


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## Kai Witte (Jan 30, 2006)

Here's a more detailed "How to set up a natural blackwater tank".

And a pic as a teaser:


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Here's a link to a site that describes the wild betta habitat. Its only reference to pH is that it is quite variable in betta habitats. http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2008/03/betta-habitat.html

I can't find a reference to fish that thrive in water with pH as low as 3.0 or 4.0. 5.0 or 5.5 seems to be the minimum.

Hardness - GH - is probably more important for the fish and certainly for the plants.

Bill


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## mthom211 (Sep 3, 2010)

I might use my ADA aquasoil then, my crypts thrive in that and it lowers the ph. I was thinking of mostly using wentii as it won't out grow my tanks. 

The exoeiriance with the local breeders is that a ph over 4 ish makes them much more suseptable to velvet. Since I will be getting their stock I'm just going to do what works for them.

Thanks for that Kai! I'll definatly be doing a dry start, the tanks will be set up before I get the fish.

The imbellis don't need such a low ph, the black water tanks will be for my coccina complex species. 

Please excuse my spelling, I have lost my glasses, I'm sure I have made a tonne of mistakes but I can't see them


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