# Aquascaping: Art or Hobby?



## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

[Edit: This thread was split from the previous thread to maintain on-topic discussion in both threads -Phil]

I can see where george and trenac are coming from with their kids and other interests and proffessions . . . however . . . that's because this is your hobby.

For a guy like Oliver Knott, or Amano, or J Senske, it ain't a hobby-- it's their life. That's because they're pros.

I personally would like to see aquascaping to be more than just a _hobby_.[-X

In fact, I think it should ascend to its rightful place as one of humanity's greatist art forms. O

A young guy like me can hold big dreams, like one day becoming a pro. The greatest level of the art form will be accomplished by people who consider it more than a hobby.

For a pro, for a true artist of aquascaping-- the idea of "too much maintenance" seems ridiculous. I believe someone used this example, but an artist does not deem a painting bad because it takes "too many brush strokes." We'd laugh at a pro athlete who set a limit for "too many drills."

True artists of aquascaping will keep seeking the very limits of everything they can.

This is the aquascaping forum so I'll say this freely: I hate the term "hobby." This is an "art form," and as long as we keep calling it a hobby we'll never be taken seriously. For some people in this world, it is no hobby. I want the number of those people to increase.

Phil, I also see your point about wanting the scape to be continuously in its beautiful state. After all, part of the glory to this art, is that the aquascape is a living place, and part of its true majesty is looking in, and watching.

However, the photo-capturing is a real aspect of this art form, because it is a living art, and living things die. I would argue though that as an art, we should also be concerned with capturing true greatness.

True greatness, is something that can happen in an instant. A perfect catch at the end of a perfect football play. A sunset for a single moment. If you know the board game Go, Professional Go players dream of playing "the hand of God," and if it ever happens, it'll be one stone, on one board, in one game, that might never happen again. Creating true greatness, if only for a moment, is as legitimate to art as anything else.


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

greenmiddlefinger said:


> I can see where george and trenac are coming from with their kids and other interests and proffessions . . . however . . . that's because this is your hobby.


I think you already know that this is more than a hobby to me.

True, I am limited in terms of practical time spent on my tank but my mind is pretty much always absorbed into my layout's next stage of development. It is just finding the time (and cash!) to implement these thoughts.

Very interesting points on the hobby/artform subject.


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

yup.

After all, even though painting is a hobby for some, and there are people who do it that really suck at it, we do not call painting "a hobby." We CALL IT AN ART FORM. Aquascaping is THE SAME. As far as I'm concerned, it should NEVER be referred to as a hobby.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

I considered aquascaping as both a hobby and a art form. A hobby is something you do in your spare time. A art form is making/creating something with your own hands. So in our spare time (hobby) we accomplish an aquascape(s) with our own hands (art form).


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

That is irrevilant.

If something is a true art form, of course people do it as a hobby, but *we don't call it a hobby.* We call it art.

Even though people paint as a hobby, we certainly don't call painting itself a hobby. Ballet dancers would be _offended_, if we called ballet a _hobby_.

_I'm_ offended by people calling aquascaping a hobby, because _I'm serious,_ and this is _a great art form,_ and should be respected as such. I think we should demand more respect for art form. [smilie=t:

To be honest, I think aquascaping surpasses many of the older forms in its potential for beauty, especially in capturing nature.


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## defdac (May 10, 2004)

Yes ok, it's a hobby for many but I thinks it's weird to get slapped in the face for using fast-growers just because one is serious with the hobby and like aquascaping.

It is totally wrong to loose points in an contest for using fast-growers, it should be the other way around. Or come to think of it, it shouldn't be judged or looked upon at all. As with the winner of ADA this year. There you have one hell of a tank to prune.

If you google site:showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org on maintenance you get really upset.
This is a chore:
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2003.cgi?&op=showcase&category=0&vol=2&id=75
While this is second place:
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2005.cgi?&Scale=258&op=showcase&category=0&vol=2&id=56

This exceptionally odd and wonderfull 60's "blob"-layout is a nightmare:
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2005.cgi?&op=showcase&category=0&vol=1&id=36
.. and this is the first place in the same category (rotundifolia and indica is serious weeds):
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2005.cgi?&op=showcase&category=0&vol=1&id=95

I think it's time to stop judging maintenance, it just makes the judges look really schizo 8)


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

greenmiddlefinger said:


> _I'm_ offended by people calling aquascaping a hobby, because _I'm serious_


You don't say Said like a true art student!


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Steve,

Why are you offended when people call aquatic gardening and aquascaping a hobby? Aquascaping is an art, but for the vast majority of us who don't do it professionally, it's a hobby. I used to make my living in aquarium maintenance and selling aquarium and pond plants. Now I'm going to be making my living on the scientific side of aquatic plants. As a aquatic plant professional does that mean my aquariums aren't a hobby for me? 

Many people undertake artistic and creative endeavors to pass time or for the enjoyment of learning new things vs. making money at it. That, in my book, constitues a hobby. I think it just so happens that most of us here who follow aquascaping in internet circles are more serious hobbyists than the average Joe who buys some plants for his fish tank. 

I agree though, aquascaping and aquatic gardening are definately an artistic endeavor. 

Regards,
Phil


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

gf225-- as artists, we'll keep improving together. 

Phil--
In honesty, the word "offended" is stronger than my real feeling, but I'm using it, because I want it to carry seriousness.

Are you satisfied with how things are Phil?

Are you happy always having to explain what aquascaping is anytime you want to talk about it with people you meet? Or having to show them photos just so that they can see that you're talking about something amazing? Are you satisfied with aquascaping being the unknown hobby-like art form the vast majority of people think of it as (or not think of it at all really)?

Phil, it's true that for the majority of people who work with aquariums, aquascaping would just be a hobby, and only in small enclaves and circles and only certain geographic locations can you find it budding into a serious art form. My point is-- I'm not satisfied with that.

The beauty aquascaping is capable of, and really has already reached through Amano's work and the ADA contests, isn't the type of beauty that you want to leave unknown forever. You want it to grow into a huge, mainstream art form everyone knows about even if they don't do it. I want aquascaping to be recognized for the great art form that it is. The use of the word "offended" comes from that strong feeling.

Great art forms aren't called hobbies. They just aren't, even though people do them as hobbies.

It's like, there are many hobbies, but only a few are great art forms, and we recognize those few with the name art form (and by NOT calling them hobbies).


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## SnakeIce (May 9, 2005)

I'm all for calling this thing we do art. But aquascapeing? It may be the lack of time the term has been around, but it doesn't have the same ring as say the words painting, or danceing. Is this the word we want to represent our endevors?

There is such ignorance to be over come to get any word recognized as representing what we do. 

Some might say we are just gardening. That fails to have any weight. So many people these days can't keep a houseplant alive and don't know why. They lack the knowlege to know why the effort is to be lauded.



I share your interest in getting what a few people have accomplished with plants and water known as Art. But I don't think very much progress will be made without education in this art. Untill a person can go learn Aquascapeing principles in some sort of class....

I'm not even sure how such a thing could be set up.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

greenmiddlefinger said:


> That is irrevilant.
> 
> If something is a true art form, of course people do it as a hobby, but *we don't call it a hobby.* We call it art.
> 
> ...


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

I'm confused. What's the difference? If you enjoy it, do it. If not, don't. If you like the way your tank looks, who cares if it doesn't agree with someone else's definition of aquatic nirvana?


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## Jerm (Nov 11, 2005)

one word... ricca


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

snakeice-- I totally agree with coming up with a better word. 

Trenac-- I find that really sad. It shows a lack of appreciation for people's accomplishments. Besides, for now, we're just talking about aquascaping. World affairs are important, but one can make an arguement that achieving excellence is even more so.

guaiac-- every art has the internal issue of "self design vs. other's impressions." We could dive into that centuries old debate, but it's annoying, endless, and not the topic at hand. Just assume that all artists work with the assumption that there is a form "beauty" which we all appreciate (though some more than others obviously). A hobby could be something like playing pokemon cards. I think the difference between that and aquascaping or painting should be clearly evident.  

Basically, art forms try to excel in a form of excellence-- the form of beauty, normally. Aquascaping especially, is like this.

george-- sorry for hijackin' your thread man.


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

greenmiddlefinger said:


> george-- sorry for hijackin' your thread man.


No apologies necessary Steve. It's been very interesting to hear everyone's comments.

Merry Christmas all!


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## hsteve (Jul 9, 2005)

SnakeIce said:


> Some might say we are just gardening. That fails to have any weight. So many people these days can't keep a houseplant alive and don't know why. They lack the knowlege to know why the effort is to be lauded.


Y'know, there's nothing wrong with our hobby, art form, or whatever you want to call it, being seen as gardening. How many of us have either houseplants, an herb garden or a small veggie garden in their back yards?
IMHO, aquatic gardening is an extension of my interest in terresrtial plants:yawinkle:


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

greenmiddlefinger said:


> Trenac-- I find that really sad. It shows a lack of appreciation for people's accomplishments. Besides, for now, we're just talking about aquascaping. World affairs are important, but one can make an arguement that achieving excellence is even more so.


You have me wrong, I do have appreciation for others accomplishments. That is why I can spend hours admiring others aquascape techniques an the beauty they create with them.

I think achieving personal excellence is less important than world affairs. But that is a another topic.

I personally think this whole argument about calling aquscaping a hobby or art form is what people call "making a mountain out of a mole hill".

I see nothing wrong with calling what we do a hobby or if you prefer a art form. The way you perceive it is all up to the individual. All that matters is that you have fun and enjoy what you are doing, weather it be a hobby or art form to you.


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## omega (Apr 1, 2004)

I think "aquascaping" is a form of "art" according to this wikipedia entry that I've just read. :mrgreen: The "hobby" is the "cultivation of aquatic plants". When you use these plants to create an "aquascape", you are making art.










Calling "aquascaping" a "hobby" is *not* an insult. "Hobby" is a relative term. It is not a value judgement.


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

Trenac-- it's not making a big deal out of nothing. It really matters-- in terms of what shape it will take in the future.

You say just enjoy and have fun-- but that's because you are just a hobbyist.

You may not have ambition, nor desire to achieve excellence, but many do. Philosophers have argued about what's important in life for millenia, and at least half of them decide that personal genius has innate value.

I'm one of those types with huge ambition, and belief in my own talent. I also am a true artist-- and I posess both creativity and intensity. For me, and many others in the future, I think this will not be about fun and games.

I hope that the future holds even greater things to come for this art.


Omega-- that's an interesting explaination

Phil-- thanks for splitting the thread.


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Steve, I think that it is subjective. I agree with guaiac. I actually think of it as a creative hobby. I think, like you, that the Greats of Aquascaping are artists, because they have become experts at doing it. Art, as I know it, is a form of expression, so I ask "what are they trying to express on an emotional level? I believe that it is difficult to do so.

Like Guaiac, I aquascape because I like to spend time on something that looks nice in my house, and believe me, I have some pretty nicely aquascaped tanks. And I do spend a ton of time on them every week (much to the chagrin of my fiance). I do it simply because I like it. Being a biologist by profession, I enjoy the biological aspects of manipulating a living ecosystem. But I think that in art, in addition to one's personal satisfaction in doing it, I believe that there needs to be an emotional touch to it. Van Goh vs. Amano?
I am not discrediting their passion towards aquascaping, and I appreciate their passion in what they do, but their is a emotional quality that is lacking. 

Sorry, man, but I can't call it anything better than an passionate hobby, in all honesty.


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## gnatster (Mar 6, 2004)

Art, in its broadest meaning, is the expression of creativity or imagination, or both.

A hobby is a spare-time recreational pursuit.

For those of us that are not making a living aquascaping then we can probably define that the hobby we persue is art.


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Interesting.....found in Webster's dictionary:

Art-creativity of man as distinguished FROM the world of nature.

By definition, then, aquascaping cannot be art because it involves the direct manipulation of nature.

Sorry!


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Also from Webster's:

Hobby-something that one likes to do or study in one's spare time; favorite pastime or avocation. RIDE A HOBBY-to be excessively devoted to one's favorite pastime or subject.


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## gnatster (Mar 6, 2004)

donaldmboyer said:


> Interesting.....found in Webster's dictionary:
> 
> Art-creativity of man as distinguished FROM the world of nature.
> 
> ...


Define Nature then. The way we creativly use objects of nature and combine them is generally not found in nature. We may strive to have a natural look but nature it is not.


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## Dewmazz (Sep 6, 2005)

I wish there was some sort of edu-muh-cay-shin I could get to turn my hobby _into_ a career via art or art classes. I like to think of planted aquariums as "living murals." I guess I'll just have to keep practicing...


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

greenmiddlefinger said:


> Trenac-- it's not making a big deal out of nothing. It really matters-- in terms of what shape it will take in the future.
> 
> You say just enjoy and have fun-- but that's because you are just a hobbyist.
> 
> ...


Just because I don't view aquascaping as you do, does not mean that I have no ambition or no desire to achieve excellence in what I create.

I'm not ashamed to say that I'm just a hobbyist, because that is what I am. Still in being so I'm still creating a little piece of nature, which in it's own is a art form.

I think if you take the fun and joy out of what you do, then it becomes boring. Then you began losing interest and the thing you once enjoyed doing is then a waste of time. This is not what this hobby needs or in your case art form needs.

I do agree that in the future aquascaping becomes a greater force then what it is now in the states.


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

Stepping in a little late into the discussion, but aquascaping is most definitely and absolutely an art in my point of view.

The simple act of aesthetically placing driftwood or rock, placing plants, and choosing fish *is* aquascaping -- an art form. If you are randomly tossing in plants and fish with absolutely no intent, I think it cannot be called art at that point. Now, the difference between "THE GREATS (which is relative)" and their aquascaping versus the hobbyist and theirs is the quality of the art. 

Personally, I believe aquascaping is an emergent, young form of artistic expression. It is a new three dimensional art form that unlike paintings and sculptures, includes the dynamics of movement and life. It is a fascinating intermingling of science (biology) with aesthetics. The pencil drawing is the hardscape that provides structure. The plants and fish are the palette which provide brushstrokes of color, texture, and movement. One can definitely express themselves with such a palette in the form of quiet or gaudy scenes, for example.

The artist must not only learn how to 'paint' but also how to tend to his or her fish and plants to keep them in top health -- the biological aspect. I believe this is a moral obligation on the part of the artist.

That said, I believe that aquascapers do not have to be competitive to be 'artists'. One can be a hobbyist and still practice aquascaping as an art form (at that point, at least, you are an artist!) simply for your own enjoyment. You just need creativity and a sound background on aesthetics.

Regardless, on this forum, aquascaping will be considered an art form like it or not. 

Carlos


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

Seems to me that if you want to subscribe the art form, then do that, if you prefer the hobbyists approach, stick with that. You can go either way or both when the time is right for you.

Many start out as growers and later evolve into scapers.
So I suppose "hobbyists that sometimes evolve into artist".

The art of fish keeping?
Some might argue that too.

Photography is a huge thing in judging contest, that is both a hobby and an art for many.

For myself, the line gets blurred often times, I will approach some as art, some are growing, some as gardening, some as a hobby, or sometimes as science. I could make the same case for the science of art or ther art of science. Many don't care about the science, many don't care about the scaping.

But adding Chemistry, plant and aquatic bio, photography, gardening/landscaping all together, it can be difficult to say what is what.

Which is an art and which is a hobby for each of these?

Few are artist in all of these realms from what I've seen. I try to be well balanced in many things I do in life.

You may want to be taken seriously in the Scaping part, perhaps the photography? Some have said the horticulture is an art, I scoff at that but feel no need to establish it as a science, sort of self evident. But I've gone down both sides of these aspects, still, the more you know and the better you understand and express, the better for the hobby and the art.

But it's not merely one aspect, scaping, it's much more holoistic.
You can get on a passionate rant about the science, the art, the scape, the placement in your home, Fish choices, photos, etc, because of so many other aspects, it's more complicated and thus harder to define.

I'm not so sure scaping is such a new hobby, elements have been around for centuries, Dutch contest tanks I've seen going back to the 1940's that revial many tanks today.

They would certainly refer to it as art.
But then again, the Dutch contest actually judge the tank itself, not merely an art form representation, the photograph.

So you have many grey lines here via the net.
Overall, a good scaper would be an artist. 
Any hobbyist/grower has the potential to to evolve that direction if they so chose to focus on that aesthetic.
They can also be content with hobbyist also.

"Bio sculpting in 3D".

Once folks figure out how to grow easier, then they focus much more on the Art part, so then I feel, this moves folks away from the hobby of growing into the art of attempting and successfully executing their ideas they have in their mind.

Still, this business about calling it an art or a hobby really gets down to one thing much like the definition of what is a species in Biology: *the person that wants to scream the loudest typically previals.*

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## oceanaqua (Oct 24, 2005)

Art and Science? That makes one a Renaissance man.

Renaissance man 

NOUN: 

A man who has broad intellectual interests and is accomplished in areas of both the arts and the sciences.

This can be apply to Renaissance woman as well.


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

donaldmboyer-- simply put, you're wrong. If you have an understanding of the history of art, you will know that a great deal of art (if not most of it) has been created simply for one reason:

_Man's desire to depict the beauty of the world around him._

In terms of emotion, the emotion for aquascaping is almost always this: awe, at nature's beauty (or related feelings of appreciation).

Aquascaping may be limited to natural themes, but in that regard, it is very powerful. If your arguement were right, than Thereau's poems and practically all Monet's work would lose their status as art, not to mention all the paintings done of landscapes from all countries and cultures. Aquascaping is a new art, but the core for its expressive purpose might be the oldest of humanity's art.

Try READING some of Amano's work-- you'll see tons of emotion.

trenac-- I know that you are what you are, and there is no reason that you could possibly be ashamed. I'm just saying, that aquascaping has surpassed the level of being "just a hobby"

tsunami-- exactly

plantbrain-- even though it has a lot of things attached to it, it's still an art form, no?

oceanaqua-- That's what I'd like to be. 

BTW-- the Advanced Placement Art Board seems to agree aquascaping is art. I used Aquascaping as my concentration for my AP Art Test, and got a 4 on the concentration section. FYI the AP art studio test is _the most difficult AP Test to pass,_ far surpassing the other subjects (including calc and the sciences) in how many students it fails.


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## matthewburk (Sep 27, 2005)

greenmiddlefinger said:


> BTW-- the Advanced Placement Art Board seems to agree aquascaping is art. I used Aquascaping as my concentration for my AP Art Test, and got a 4 on the concentration section. FYI the AP art studio test is _the most difficult AP Test to pass,_ far surpassing the other subjects (including calc and the sciences) in how many students it fails.


That is just freaking cool !!


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## omega (Apr 1, 2004)

> aquascaping has surpassed the level of being "just a hobby"


I think you're misunderstanding what the word "hobby" means Steven.  A hobby is a spare-time recreational pursuit. The pursuit here can be ANYTHING, even the creation of "art". I like Venn diagrams so let's use this imperfect one. :mrgreen:










In the green region label (1), you see where ART meets HOBBIES. Example: in my spare time, I paint. The paintings I create are still "art" right?

In the orange region label (2), you see where ART meets JOBS. Example: I sculpt for a living. The sculptures I create are still "art" right?

I think most people agree that aquascaping is a form of "ART". It jumps between the green and orange regions depending on the aquascaper. In some cases, aquascaping can be both a hobby and a job (i.e. Senkse brothers and Oliver Knott).


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## Aaron (Feb 12, 2004)

Hobby, art: same smell. Trying to quantify either is pretty much useless. So is claiming to be an artist. This whole debate is much like the whole art vs. craft thing (which has gone on for ages) 

As far as aquascaping being an art, I'd say no. not yet anyway. I think aquascaping needs to grow and become something theoretically bigger than its contextual self, making references to a master discourse, It needs a culture so it can cross pollinate with other artforms (artform as in medium, not subject matter). Amano made the first step to this end (by bringing in japanese philosophy and recognizing the importance of formal aspects; ie elements and principles of design) The problem is that there has not yet been the "second step", no "counterpoint" to Amano. Where is the Marcell Duchamp of aquascaping??? Once I start seeing aquascapes addressing this, rebutting Amanos ideas, style, and principles in a skillful thoughtful, contextual fashion, then yeah, I'll give it the nod.

Steven
I think (HOPE, actually) that I have a decent understanding of art history and I do not recall in any of the thousands of pages that I have read that a great deal (or most) of art was made to depict the beauty of the world surrounding man kind. 
Beauty and emotion have it's place in any given artform though they are hardly the deciding or driving factors in making something "art". 

Thoreau's writing, Monets and the rest of the neoimpressionists surely used the landscape as subject matter, but that is NOT the reason why both are revered as masters in their given fields. Chinese landscapes... really have nothing to do with mountains and trees. Please don't ask me why, I don't have the time to explain nor would I want to. Take a COLLEGE COURSE in art history, theory and criticism to find out. I'm a recovering academic and choose not to go back there! 

Claremont is a great place for this, 2 of my friends went thru the MFA program there and they turned out alright. 

I hate to break this to you but the people who grade the AP art stuff use a very basic and antiquated way of assessing the work (Mainly based on formal aspects and the principles and elements of DESIGN) Just because you got a 4 for your aquascapes does not validate them as being works of art, all it means is that you have presented them with a body of work that satisfies a number on FORMAL criteria. 


Sorry for the rant guys, its been christmas here for an hour and 45 minutes... I'm gonna open my presents.

HH!


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

greenmiddlefinger- You are entitled to your opinion. I said that it was subjective. I don't believe that your opinion is correct, and I am entitled to my opinion as well. Just because you see a visually appealing landscape or aquascape does not mean that it is art.


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

The Art Institute of Chicago has a modern art section containing, among other "works," a pile of colorful candy in a corner of the room and a row of pennies organized by year. Apparently, people can express themselves with pennies and candy well enough, but they cannot with driftwood/rock arrangement, plants, and fish. Ok.

AP exams are just not representative of...anything. At the Univ. of Chicgo, I learned quickly that there is a much greater level of depth and understanding in all subjects than a High School AP class/AP exam can provide. It does give you some easy college credits though. 

*I think this discussion has been drawn out far enough and will not be going anywhere, so we should conclude it.*

Carlos


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Carlos---I totally agree man! Merry Christmas!


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

Seeing the general concensus, I won't make any new arguements or responses to the above--

However, I'll say, I never expected I'd be arguing this subject on an Aquascaping forum. I'd expect people here at least to believe aquascaping an art. 


It seems our community is much more divided than I previously thought-- and I don't see how we can ever expect aquascaping to become an art for those outside us if we do not even agree on this internally.[-(


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

> Trenac-- I find that really sad. It shows a lack of appreciation for people's accomplishments. Besides, for now, we're just talking about aquascaping. World affairs are important, but one can make an arguement that achieving excellence is even more so.


Steve, I think you take yourself way too seriously. What accomplishments are you reffering to? Have you been published? In a gallery? Made money from it? A brick layer can be an artist. A writer is an artist. Someone who is good at or dedicated to their craft is an artist, and artists are the most under-appreciated and unrecognizable people in the world.

I call Amano an artist because of his photography and literary skills, he has been published and he shows his work publically. No one else in this HOBBY can make that claim. Do not demean the hobbyist for your artistic aspirations. There are very high level skilled hobbyists that take it just as serious as you do.

Art in and of itself is totally subjective. If you are good at your craft, it is unimportant how people classify it.


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

GMF,

I hve no issue calling both a hobby and an art form.
Same for Photography, painting, etc.

Why the rant about it needing to be called an art?

It is sort of self evident when you see a nice work that most , although subjective to some degree, are awe struck by.

If you exceed their expectations, that is a good goal for your audience.
I try to exceed my own expectations, I've never been happy yet but am tenacious. I feel the same way about bass, but many say I'm the best they have seen but I'm a long long way from Rob Wassermann, Stu Hamm, or Les Claypool. 

But like any thing, if you practice a lot, you will get quite good.
Practice the key, not some innate skill but that can help.

In order to do it professionally, you need a fair amount of practice there and at home. You also need a market of of clients that have a lot of luxury income.

If that is really what you want to do, then go that direction with that same passion you have here.

That passion will get you farther than the skills/talent alone ever could.

Regards, 
Tom Barr

hohoho!


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## Faruk Gençöz (Nov 4, 2005)

Aquascaped aquarium, the output, is definitely a performance that involves aesthetic and creative features. So, the output is absolutely an art form. 

Within the background of this output there is science. So, the successful aquascaper is the one who converges art and science. That is life. Some people take the life at the hobby or a reasonable level and some others are passionate. Passionate ones... They don't take the life, they loose themselves in it. Both ways are enjoying but this does not change the issue that aquascaping involves art and science.

And what we do in this thread is to form a concept, that is another scientific issue. Good thread and good ideas. That's my conclusion.


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## Magnus (Feb 4, 2004)

tomatoes... tomahtoes....?


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## Faruk Gençöz (Nov 4, 2005)

Magnus said:


> tomatoes... tomahtoes....?


Sorry, what does that mean?


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## SnakeIce (May 9, 2005)

it is an attempt to put into print an expression that implies that there is more than one way to say the same word or concept. He is saying we are argueing over semantics.

tam ah to
tamato
patato
pat ah to

spaces inserted to emphasize sound differences in ways of saying those words.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

But there is, of course, only one way to say 'Walla Walla Washington onions'.


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