# ID this deficiency (pics)



## webcricket (Oct 16, 2006)

My plants: Microsorum pteropus, Microsorum pteropus v. Windeløv, Microsorum brassii, Cryptocoryne wendtii, Unknown Cryptocoryne, Hemianthus micranthemoides, Anubias barteri v. petite, Aponogeton Crispus, and one Chladophora aegagropila ball

For 3 months I have been dosing daily Seachem's Flourish, N, P, and K in a low light (2wpg of CF) 10 gallon tank. The plants were doing fine, but I decided to add Excel into the mix beginning on the 6th of this month to combat a bit of green spot algae and BBA. I was foolish to think I wouldn't need to up the rest of my ferts to match increased growth from the additional carbon source. One of my java ferns was the first plant to indicate a problem - it melted. I though the issue was specific to the fern, but today I found these other symptoms:

Unknown Aponogeton w/ Curled New Growth Leaf
(FYI this plant was removed today - it was overtaking the tank)









Hemianthus micranthemoides w/ Curled New Growth

















The plant color remains the normal bright lime green on both those plants - the pictures make them look dark green, this is not the case. The only symptom I see is the severe curling of the leaves.

I have since stopped the Excel to try and get things back under control (and I thought it might have been the cause of my java fern melt). I am continuing my normal dosing other than the Excel. Throughout this time my nitrate has remained at 10-15 ppm...

Any ideas on this deficiency?


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## Ajax (Apr 3, 2006)

I guess it's possible for the Excel to have affected it, but I didn't notice any affects on my HM when I was dosing it. It definitely torched my java moss. That looks more like a micro deficiency to me though. You didn't mention dosing any micros in your post. Are you dosing them regularly as well?


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

webcricket said:


> For 3 months I have been dosing daily Seachem's Flourish, N, P, and K in a low light (2wpg of CF) 10 gallon tank. The plants were doing fine, but I decided to add Excel into the mix beginning on the 6th of this month to combat a bit of green spot algae and BBA. I was foolish to think I wouldn't need to up the rest of my ferts to match increased growth from the additional carbon source.


I think you may have answered your own question right there. You may have actually triggered a nutrient deficiency by adding the Excel and causing the plants to increase their uptake rates. Increased uptake may have resulted in deficiencies in the tank. I have read that tanks using Excel (versus tanks with no carbon source) grow 3-5 times faster, though I have no proof.

Green Spot is generally regarded as either a CO2 deficiency or PO4 deficiency. Increasing one or the other will let you know which is the cause. Since you are not using CO2 I would assume your PO4 levels are too low. It has become common for folks to keep 2ppm or more PO4 in their tanks.

BBA is has been assumed to be caused by either low CO2 or fluctuating CO2 levels in the tank. Are you doing weekly water changes on this tank? If so, you could be adding higher CO2 levels with the water change. The CO2 levels are not maintained after the water change and the plants have a harder time adjusting to the changing CO2 levels than the algae.



webcricket said:


> I have since stopped the Excel to try and get things back under control (and I thought it might have been the cause of my java fern melt). I am continuing my normal dosing other than the Excel. Throughout this time my nitrate has remained at 10-15 ppm...


I would continue with the Excel and increase your fert dosing instead. This should allow the plants to "recover" from their deficiencies faster than if you don't provide a carbon source. Just make sure to provide enough fertilizers while using Excel. You may need to increase your fert additions by 50% or more.

Your test kit is probably measuring total nitrogen (Ammonia or ammonium depending on your pH, nitrites, and nitrates. You may not notice a drop in NO3 readings expecially if plant growth slows or stops.

A micro deficiency is possible but can be easily ruled out by adding more N, P, and K to the tank for a couple of weeks (probably longer if you decide not to continue with the Excel dosing). I have purposefully overdosed Excel in some tanks containing Java Ferns to help with BBS. I have yet to have any damage to either the Broad Leaf or Narrow Leaf forms even when adding 45ml daily for ten days in a 75g tank. I don't think the Excel damaged your Java Ferns


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## webcricket (Oct 16, 2006)

Thank you for the replies! I have to confess to thinking the regular Flourish covered me on micros...I guess not. This is my first planted tank, and it's a lot to take in even after having it run pretty well for several months. I initially wasn't even going to do ferts, but decided the Seachem products seemed easy enough to use. I shall have to see if they offer something to cover micro nutrients.



MatPat said:


> Green Spot is generally regarded as either a CO2 deficiency or PO4 deficiency. Increasing one or the other will let you know which is the cause. Since you are not using CO2 I would assume your PO4 levels are too low. It has become common for folks to keep 2ppm or more PO4 in their tanks.


I did attempt to increase P to solve this green spot issue (my tap water had no measureable P per the water report), and it helped to a degree. My HM were a bit dark green on the lower stems, and when I upped the P, they went back to the healthy bright green. The increased P helped with the spot algae growing on older plant leaves, but not the driftwood and sides of the tank (I know some is considered normal). More...



MatPat said:


> BBA is has been assumed to be caused by either low CO2 or fluctuating CO2 levels in the tank. Are you doing weekly water changes on this tank? If so, you could be adding higher CO2 levels with the water change. The CO2 levels are not maintained after the water change and the plants have a harder time adjusting to the changing CO2 levels than the algae.


Ah, I knew it was caused by low CO2, but not fluctuating. I noticed the BBA after I increased the P but not before, so I thought it might be related. It did mostly die off when I added the Excel. I do a 40-50% water change weekly.

I will go ahead at start the Excel again, and start in with more of the other ferts as well and see what happens.


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