# Begineer Ferts?



## wguttrid (Feb 20, 2006)

Hey guys, wondering, can someone reccomened what ferts I should buy right now. Nothing to complicated, was thinking of staying with the Flourish line. 

Eg.)Would Flourish, Flourish Fe be enough until I get a hang of fertilization. 

I know I have alot to learn. 

Thanks,


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## wguttrid (Feb 20, 2006)

Hey guys, thinking going to place an order with Greg Watson. Just want the essential macros and essential micros. 

Would this work for now, nothing to crazy:

Potassium Nitrate KNo3 (macro - nitrogen source NO3)
Potassium Sulfate K2SO4 (macro - potassium source K)
Mono Potassium Phosphate KH2PO4 (macro - Phosphorus source)

CSM+B Plantex (micro - iron and trace)
Iron Chelate 10% (should I buy this for extra iron or is the CSM+B Plantex good enough????)

Would that work guys also how much should I order for a 110 gallon tank. Also how long will it last. 

Thanks,


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## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

Looks just fine to me, those are all good thangs to have on hand and much cheaper to use than say the whole flourish line. 

As far as how much you need, I would say a bag of each would be plenty for a LONG time, probably wouldnt need to order any more for well over a year. Then again I suppose that all depends on how much you dose a week, and the amount of tanks you need to supply. But i know if I was only adding ferts to my 75 gallon. 1 bag of each of those would last me well over a year. 

Any way good luck, I would suggest looking around here on the forums, and doing some search and reading up on the PPS, and EI systems of doseing.... there is much to be learned about what nutrients plants need from those 2 articles, along with the amounts that need supplied through a week.

I think a lot of us sort of come to a middle ground between the two systems and sort of adopt our own method that uses some things from the EI method, and some from PPS. Its all about learning and having fun, and remember it can all be pretty confusing so when your have questions you cant find answers to in past post, feel free to make a new post there are lots of us who would be willing and happy to help out 

Matt


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Ditto Mr Snader's post about the ferts from Greg. Greg only seels the ferts in multiples of one pound so I would get a pound of each to start with. Some folks (like me) don't add any K2SO4 (Potassium Sulfate) since K (potassium) is already present in both the KNO3 (Potassium Nitrate) and KH2PO4 (Mono Potassium Phosphate). The KNO3 may last a year but the KH2PO4 will last longer. Depending on your use of K2SO4, it will last you a year also. I bought two pounds of K2SO4 over 2 years ago and I have nearly 1 pound of it left and I gave a pound away. 

Since you say you "have a lot to learn" I assume you are new to plants and or fertilizing. I would suggest you look into using the Estimative Index to initially add fertilizers to your tank. It is very simple for beginers and does not involve very much testing of your tank water. That means you will have a bit more money to spend on plants and fish versus test kits 

Once you progress a bit more and get "comfortable" with fertilizing (and maybe acquire a few test kits) I would definately read up on the PPS method of fertilization (PPS links are in the sticky at the top of the fertilization forum). Like Mr. Sanders said, alot of us tend to mix the two methods once we begin to feel comfortable with our tanks.

You don't mention CO2 use so I will give you links to EI articles for CO2 and non-CO2 tanks:

http://www.barrreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1

http://www.barrreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=395


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## wguttrid (Feb 20, 2006)

Question on dosing, based on the fertilator it tells you how much to add of each to get to a dersired level (ppm). Should you does once a week (easy) or two or three times a week for both macros and micros?


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## wguttrid (Feb 20, 2006)

Hye guys after some researching how does this sound for weekly quantities based on the EI method.

Also these calculations are from using the fertilator and a 100 gallon tank.

*Macros*
Targets - Nitrate = 5ppm = Actual 4.85ppm
Potassium = 20ppm = Actual 19.5ppm
Phosphate = 1ppm = Actual .92ppm

KNO3 = Add a total of 3 grams which will give me 4.85ppm of Nitrate and 3.06ppm of potassium

K2S04 = Add a total of 14 grams which gives me 16.5ppm of Potassium

KH2PO4 = Add a total of .5 grams which gives me a total of .92ppm of Phosphates.

*Micros*
Targets - Iron = .1ppm = Actual 0.09ppm

CSM+B Plantex = Add total of .5 grams which gives me a total of 0.09ppm of FE (iron).

Based on my how many plants I have currently I belive I can get away with only 50% of my totals stated. So will divide all my numbers in half until the plant volume in the tank is increased each week.

Will dose the macros on water change day and then every other day, micros will be on off days.

Please advise.


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

One of the things that determines your dosing amounts is the plant uptake. This is influenced by several things:

- Amount of light
- CO2 or not
- Plant density

You don't mention anything about light or CO2 injection? If you don't have enough light or have enough light but no CO2, then adding all these ferts may not be necessary... or at least not as often as EI recommends.

Regarding NO3, given you have good lighting and CO2, I'd aim for a target of 20-30mg/l (or at least 10-20mg/l) and not 5mg/l. 5mg/l is very low and if you don't stay on top of it you can easily suddenly bottom out, which you don't want to happen.


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## wguttrid (Feb 20, 2006)

Running around 30ppm of CO2 and approx. 5 watts per gallon of lighting. Plant denisty I would say is 50% at the moment for the tank. Aiming for approx. 1 gallon of plants for each 10 gallons of water.


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## wguttrid (Feb 20, 2006)

Adjustment based on a increased Nitrate level.

*Macros*
Targets - Nitrate = 20ppm = Actual 16ppm
Potassium = 20ppm = Actual 19.5ppm
Phosphate = 1ppm = Actual .92ppm

KNO3 = Add a total of 10 grams which will give me 4.85ppm of Nitrate and 3.06ppm of potassium

K2SO4 = Add a total of 8 grams which gives me 9.5ppm of Potassium

KH2PO4 = Add a total of .5 grams which gives me a total of .92ppm of Phosphates.

*Micros*
Targets - Iron = .1ppm = Actual 0.09ppm

CSM+B Plantex = Add total of .5 grams which gives me a total of 0.09ppm of FE (iron).

Will divide all numbers in half until plant mass is increased.

How does this sound guys???


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Are you following any type of plan for your fertilization needs or do you intend on testing and adding accordingly?

EI is a good method for beginning fertlilizer users to use because it is easy and gives great results as long as you do the water changes. Here is a link for EI: http://www.barrreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1

Your macro targets look good but I would bump the PO4 up to 2ppm. I would then add ~6-8 ppm of KNO3 and ~0.5ppm of PO4 to the tank 3x a week.

I've never felt the need to dose potassium since there seems to be plenty in the KNO3 and KH2PO4. I've never added additional iron when Dosing CSM+B either but I only have about 3wpg on my tank. You may want to mix up a solution of CSM+B (2tbsp to 500ml of water) and dose 20-25ml of this on days you don't dose the macros. That should supply enough micros for the tank.

If you are worried about iron, keep an "Iron indicator" plant in the tank like dwarf sag or Myaca fluviatilis. These will loose their color when iron levels get low. Since they are fast growing, they show a deficiency before most other plants. Most any fast grower could be used but these are the two that seem to get the "whitest" when iron is low.

I wouldn't bother cutting the amounts in half either. If you have not been dosing, then your plants will use the ferts. By cutting them in half, you risk under-dosing them. Adding more than the plants can use (within reason) will not cause algae issues but adding less than the plants need can!


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## wguttrid (Feb 20, 2006)

Gonna try the EI method. 

Noted your revised PPM, and will adjust accordingly. 

ANy other thoughts people?


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## wguttrid (Feb 20, 2006)

Hey guys did some running around, picked up some Laters stump remover Potassium Nitrate (attached is the MSDS data sheet ) and Fleet Enema.
View attachment Laters%20Stump%20Remover.txt


How do you dose the Fleet Enema, meaning it says on the side of the box that each 100ml contains= Monobasic sodium phosphate 16 grams and dibasic sodium phosphate 6 grams.

So should I add them both up for a total of 25 grams and then divide that by 100ml which works out to .25 grams per ml. So if I need to add .75 grams to my tank I would add 3ml.

Is th correct.

Also as you can see from the MSDS sheet I belive the only ingredient is pottasium nitrate so should be able to use this with no worries.


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## orthikon (Feb 16, 2006)

For fleet enema:

3 drops/10 gal gives you ~0.5 ppm 

it's simple ratio and proportion from there but if you want details:

Fleet is 131.36 ppm of PO4. 
1) Divide by tank size in liters and you get the ppm per mL. 
2) Divide by 20 to get ppm per drop. 
3) Divide target amount of INCREASE by amount in #2 to get # of drops to add.

for a 10 gal:

1) 131.36/38 = 3.46 ppm per mL
2) 3.46/20 = .1728 ppm per drop
If I want to INCREASE by 0.5 ppm:
3) 0.5/.1728 = 2.89 drops

FYI: DO NOT the fertilator for calculations it is waaaay off.


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