# powerhead in 29g stirring up mulm?



## javalee (May 8, 2006)

Hi everyone, 

My newly planted 29g has an aquaclear powerhead for a 30g. I've never used one in a natural aquarium before. I only run it at night with the aerator for the fish, but in the morning, everything is covered in a layer of mulm, all the leaves and moss and wood is covered in junk. 

I have it stuck to the end glass and on low, directed to the glass perpendicular to it to break up the flow a bit.

Does anyone else have this problem?

I've quit running it for now, and added an HOB to see if it was because of my poking the substrate everyday with a chopstick (anaerobic problems, over now) and stirring up soil and mulm myself. I'm trying to see if I can filter it all out and put the powerhead back on with no problems.

what do you think?

Thank you!

Javalee


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Hi,

Walstad-type aquariums do not need filtering. If mulm does build up excessively it can be easily removed via siphoning once a month or so, but remember that it should also be allowed to work its way into the substrate to become plant food.

I do use a small HOB filter on some of my 20 and 29 gallon tanks to provide water circulation. Sometimes I put filter floss in them; sometimes not. It doesn't seem to make any difference.

You don't have to probe the substrate. It will take care of itself if it was set up properly.

Good luck.

Bill


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

I use the aquaclear powerheads with the quick filter attachment as mentioned by Walstad in a thread somewhere around here. The quick filter keeps the stirred up mulm from being redistributed throughout the tank. I've also made a "spray bar" out of flexible tubing with small holes drilled in it in order to distribute the water flow more gently throughout the tank. (Also an idea from Walstad) I bought a large length of tubing to fit on the outflow from Drs Foster & Smith and found the cap for the end at Lowe's. I found that poking or cutting holes didn't work too well, using a drill with a small diameter bit worked much better. This provides a much gentler form of water circulation so there does tend to be mulm build-up in some of the more heavily planted areas. I usually just let that be until I get around to cleaning the tank. Hope this helped.


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## javalee (May 8, 2006)

Thanks for your responses,

Aquabillpers, I understand that they don't need filtering because the plants need the ammonia, but the trouble I'm having is that I'm getting this brown goopy stuff (that looks like mulm but may not be) settling in all the cabomba and other plants, even on the roots of the water lettuce. If I stir it up a bit, it all comes loose and gets sucked into the filter.

I've had Walstad style tanks for about one and a half years now, and I've never experienced this, but I'm starting to suspect that it may not be mulm, but a type of algae or bacteria build up as I noticed the guppies feeding on it today.

I did have to probe the substrate, however, because I was getting powerful bubbling that smelled like rotten eggs---you know, the ol' hydrogen sulfide problem----due to either the soil I'm using or because I layered the gravel a bit more than 1.5", I don't know, but the probing stopped the stench and I just have regular bubbling going on now.

CS Gardener, do you find you get mulm build up in the plants themselves or on the substrate? In my old tank, the mulm just got stirred into the gravel by the MTS.

Here's some stats if y'all wanna trouble-shoot with me. and I'll try to get a photo soon. I may even have some green water, it's cloudy.

29g with 130W compact fluorescent, some evening sunlight on sunny days.
lots of floating plants and jungle vals blocking the surface to cut the light (salvinia, duckweed, pennywort, and water lettuce)

Below I have two swords, twister vals, anubius, anacharis, hornwort, rotalla, cabomba growing like crazy, tiger lotus, java moss, java fern.

Critters: big ol' ramshorns, not sure what kind. pond snails, tiny ramshorns, MTS, 20 shrimp, 1 large anglefish, 3 cherry barbs, 2 khulis, 5 tetras, 4 guppies, and one ferocious blue ram.

I've been sick a good bit from the start of this tank and things were beautiful at first, but around the time I started probing the soil to rid my apartment of the permeating stench bubbling up from below, I got cloudy water, and now the brown sticky gunk on everything. I haven't been as attentive with it as I should have. Things may be out of balance. OK, now the brown goop is on the glass, so I'm wondering if it's bacterial or algae?

Also, my nitrates plummeted to zero after being really high, and I can't get them up no matter how much I dump the food in. I'm actually getting some moldy growth on the gravel in areas where I feed heavily. You'd think the shrimp and snails would get that. So I pulled out some of the floaters and hornwort, then the water got cloudier---maybe green water.

pH is 8.3, very steady. GH is being raised as Diana and I first discussed here over a year ago with CaCl2 and MgSO4 and is around 6 as of now.

I don't know, any help would be appreciated. This is a deeper tank and I had no option between 65W or 130W so I got the type that has two bulbs so I can run one or two at a time. Maybe the light is overdone despite all the blockage on top from the super jungle vals and floaters?








This is after one week. It's now one month old. It's really filled in now, and I'll try to get a camera soon!
Thanks, I'm tired and rambling, sorry for the length!

Javalee


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## dirtmonkey (Mar 12, 2007)

Javalee, I wonder if your nitrate test went bad. It seems nearly impossible to me that if you're feeding that much to have zero nitrate.

Natural mulm is composed of bacteria, fungi, and other stuff too, it isn't just broken down waste. You could be having an extra high buildup from going overboard on the feeding, in addition to nutrients and sediment released up into the water from the probing.

Having that much decaying food combined with a cycling powerhead could do exactly what you're describing. Leaving the circulation on all the time would let things settle where they stay, instead of settlingevery day then getting stirred up again every night.

Just my opinion, but I'd cut back a little on the feeding, and leave the powerhead on low all the time, or get a smaller one if that's too much movement.

Vincent


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

Nice looking start to your tank and I love your angelfish!



javalee said:


> CS Gardener, do you find you get mulm build up in the plants themselves or on the substrate? In my old tank, the mulm just got stirred into the gravel by the MTS.


In a couple of my tanks the plant growth is so dense in areas that I do get detritus in the plants as well as near the substrate because of the lack of any water movement in those areas and the plants being so close as to trap the detritus. Even my corys tend to avoid those areas as they can get stuck temporarily and have to fight their way out. In the tank with the worst buildup (which really isn't all that bad, just a little unsightly) the MTS are not taking hold well, which explains some of the problem.  I do keep my powerheads on all the time, the quickfilter and spray bar help keep the flow down to a very gentle current that barely moves my plant leaves.

You mentioned brown, sticky gunk - I had cyanobacteria once that was brown rather than the typical blue-green. It was more slimy than sticky as I recall. Have you checked through the algaefinder to see if anything matches what you have?

Good luck! I hope you manage to clear up the problem.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

javalee said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> My newly planted 29g has an aquaclear powerhead for a 30g. I've never used one in a natural aquarium before. I only run it at night with the aerator for the fish, but in the morning, everything is covered in a layer of mulm, all the leaves and moss and wood is covered in junk.
> 
> Javalee


I would get a Quick filter for your powerhead. It will quickly remove whatever is being stirred up into the water. The Quick Filter attachment costs about $7. I use it to remove water turbidity when I disturb the soil layer by uprooting plants.

It also could be that you've got aquatic worms in the substrate that are bringing soil up into the water column during the night. The worms are harmless and wonderful live food for fish, but they can cause a bit of turbidity. Again, the Quick Filter would reduce this turbidity.

Diana


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## javalee (May 8, 2006)

Thanks everyone,

I kept dumping the fish food in since the nitrate was zero, and I cleaned the HOB out and kept it packed with polyfiber, and let the floaters grow back out to cover the top. It has cleared up completely!! I have a nitrate reading of 5ppm now finally, and I think that says something. I was getting a bit of BGA, which I know loves 0 nitrate. Clear water and no brown clumps stuck to plants and glass. I don't think it was mulm.

I DO, however, have the same nasty algae/fungus(?) that killed my 2.5g. I had disinfected the plants out of there, but I noticed it's growing around the plants I salvaged from that tank. It's grey-green and looks just like mold but makes a yucky coating over the gravel. I'm vacuuming it out to control it now, but it keeps coming back. It comes up chunky and if left it causes the area under it to go anaerobic and stinky. It's only covering small areas so far and the plants and fish seem to be thriving now so if it doesn't get any worse, I can handle it. I even have guppy fry!

I think the brown goopy stuff must have been an algae, *Dirtmonkey because it cleared up as the nitrate went up and the lighting went down with the surface coverage of the floaters. It was goopy stuff in clumps everywhere and its gone now.

I was just about to get a Quickfilter, Diana, but, ever trying to save a dime Ithought I'd use the polyfiber first. I will keep one on hand in the future.

Probably need to thin some plants now too to improve flow and circulation and keep the BGA from coming back.

Thanks everyone. I'll post a photo when I can borrow a camera.*


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

javalee said:


> Thanks everyone,
> 
> I kept dumping the fish food in since the nitrate was zero. I have a nitrate reading of 5ppm now finally, and I think that says something. I was getting a bit of BGA, which I know loves 0 nitrate .


Javalee,

Where did you hear that BGA liking 0 Nitrates? Not from me, to be sure.

It's true that some BGA can use nitrogen in the air as their N source-- if they have to. These BGA can "fix N2" just like legumes (peas, alfalfa, clover, etc). However, the N2 fixation process is very costly-- energy-wise-- in comparison to using ammonia or nitrates. Therefore, if there's any ammonia or nitrate in the water, the BGA will use these compounds as their N2 source and not fix N2. Just like us, these plants aren't in to "wasting energy" unnecessarily.

It bothers me that you assume that 5 ppm nitrates would inhibit BGA. I would never dump in excess fishfood to get a get a target nitrate reading.

Take care here. This sounds like advice for High-Tech tanks that may not apply to El Naturale tanks.


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## javalee (May 8, 2006)

Diana,

I think I read about BGA (bacteria, right? you mentioned plants?) thriving in 0 nitrate tanks in another forum, probably. I have always had success in getting rid of it by increasing ciruculation and increasing nitrogen in the water. But of course, without doing a scientific study, it's hard for me to say that those measures were what cleared it up. Once my dumping of fish food got the nitrate up to 5 from 0, the tank DID clear up after having a bit of green water and some BGA.

Wouldn't it be true however, that if there were NO nitrogen in the water, that BGA would have an advantage over the plants, being able to fix nitrogen from the air, and hence come into "bloom?" Just wondering. I'm no expert for sure!

I am just looking for a nitrate above 0 because some plants were showing yellowed leaves and I was worried there wasn't enought nitrogen for the amount of wattage I had driving these plants. With a nitrate above 0 I know that there is enough nitrogen to keep the plants happy. I know I don't want it much higher than 5 after experiencing nitrate to nitrite conversion earlier in this tank!

I appreciate anything you can point out to me or teach me on these topics. I learn something new everytime I come here, so thank you. This 29g deeper tank, with higher wattage is a learning experience for sure. It's been quite different than working with my 10g with 3wpg. 

Javalee


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

For what it's worth I have never had measurable nitrates in any of my low-tech tanks. And I haven't had BGA in any of them either. And I have had other algae types, most notably thread algae and some spot algae. That's just one very unscientific data point though.

On the other hand, this scientific article might be the counterpoint to my anecdote. I vaguely remember learning in an ecology class once that the N-P ratio plays a major role in determining the dominant algae during blooms in natural lakes and rivers.


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