# Water lilly seeds: Help please



## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

I got a water lilly pod from my mother's pond this weekend and I opened it up and found seeds in it. How does one go about growing these seeds? Has anyone had experiance with such things?


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## confuted (Apr 19, 2008)

I'd suggest putting them in water.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

I figured that would be a good start. but is there anything specific?


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## Nelumbo74 (May 2, 2008)

You probably have a lotus pod, because lilies don't produce pods. If the seeds are good and dry, store them in a manila envelope in a cool, dry place until next spring. A few weeks before your last frost, take the seeds, and scarify them. The easiest way is to take some sand paper and lightly scrub them for a few seconds. This will allow moisture to penetrate the very thick seed in the next step. Once you've scarified the seeds, fill a mason jar half full of water, drop the seeds in and put the lid on the jar. Any seeds that float by the way, will not germinate, so discard those. Place the jar of seeds in a sunny window, and in a few weeks, you should see a small root start to break through the seed. You can transplant them to small cups of moist, potting soil once the seed has sprouted, making sure never to let the soil dry out. Eventually, they should form a little, round leaf. At that point, you will want to transplant them to a tub of heavy, clay soil. It's sort of difficult to raise lotuses from seeds, since they are such heavy feeders. It's probably just easier to buy a mature tuber through the mail rather than transplanting, but you might enjoy trying to grow one from seed. Good luck!


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

these look more like a white pomegranet seed. Actually, the whole thing reminds me of a pomegranet.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Sunstar said:


> these look more like a white pomegranet seed. Actually, the whole thing reminds me of a pomegranet.


Are you sure it was mature when you picked it? If it was mature it should have been dry, hard, and brown. Do you have a picture? Maybe it's not what you (or I) think it is.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

I don't have a pic right now. I only had this opportunity to pick it as my mum's moving this weekend. It wouldn't have been dry as it was completely underwater.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Hmm. My guess is the seeds won't germinate, then, since they aren't mature. But I am truly not sure about it. I've never tried with lotus seeds.

Nelumbo, what do you think?


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

they're not lotus


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## Nelumbo74 (May 2, 2008)

Well, does it look like the picture I've attached? If so, it's a lotus pod. A mature seed should be about the size of a small marble. If it's about the size of a pomegranate seed, then it is immature, and will not sprout. This time of year though, they should be all dried up.

Edit: For some reason the pic won't attach. Look at this link, and tell me if this is what it looks like.

www.nettletonhollow.com/lotus-pods.html


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

Nothing like it.

looks more like this but smaller:

http://www.internationalwaterlilycollection.com/IWC Scans/Dwarf Seed Pod Reduced.htm


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## Nelumbo74 (May 2, 2008)

Sunstar said:


> they're not lotus


Well, I'm not sure what you have then. Water lilies do not form a pod. Instead, the stem of the fertilized flower curls, and pulls the flower underwater, where the seeds form inside the flower. The seeds of a water lily are contained in a gelatinous coating. and are eventually released into the water where they germinate. They resemble the inside of a tomato. Below is a link to a photo of dried waterlily seeds.

http://www.shamanic-extracts.com/xcart/shamanic-products/blue-lotus-Nymphaeaceae-seeds.html


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## Nelumbo74 (May 2, 2008)

Sunstar said:


> Nothing like it.
> 
> looks more like this but smaller:
> 
> http://www.internationalwaterlilycollection.com/IWC Scans/Dwarf Seed Pod Reduced.htm


Well, that is a seed pod for a giant Victoria lily, which has flowers the size of a football, and the lily pads get up to six feet across. Where are you located?


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

your description is right. I had to fish it out from underwater because it was curled up.


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## Nelumbo74 (May 2, 2008)

Sunstar said:


> your description is right. I had to fish it out from underwater because it was curled up.


Ah, then you do have a waterlily. Unfortunately, I have never germinated waterlily seeds. However, I have heard that they can be treated similar to tomato seeds, which are spread flat on paper towels and allowed to dry out. However, the following article says differently. Good luck!

http://www.water-gardens-information.com/start-water-lily-seeds.html


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

I am in canada. those are not hte lillies, they are just the type of pod, looks like a very small green-yellow dragin fruit pod, size of a ping pong ball.

http://sunstars.deviantart.com/art/Pink-waterlilly-9490225

that is the actual plant the pod came form.


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## Nelumbo74 (May 2, 2008)

Sunstar said:


> I am in canada. those are not hte lillies, they are just the type of pod, looks like a very small green-yellow dragin fruit pod, size of a ping pong ball.
> 
> http://sunstars.deviantart.com/art/Pink-waterlilly-9490225
> 
> that is the actual plant the pod came form.


Ah, it's a hardy waterlily then. The article I attached in the last post would be a good process to follow in order to try to germinate the seeds.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

I'm trying that method. I put them in an old chocolate container (clear plastic with lid) We shall see. if it works, cool, if not, well at least I tried.

I have a tiger lotus in my aquarium.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

UPDATE:

I see sproutage! Wish me luck


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

here's a pic of the Seedling.










It is taking a while and there are three seedlings. The start with a tendral and grow leaves.


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## zer0zax (Mar 25, 2007)

Very cool! I read on some pond forums that you can dwarf some water lilies by planting them in small pots, but I can't find any more info on keeping them small. For some reason pond people evidently don't want small lilies... Maybe you can grow them bonsai style!


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## Nelumbo74 (May 2, 2008)

The lotus that we use in our planted tanks are actually "dwarfed" tropical water lilies... in a sense.


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## Nelumbo74 (May 2, 2008)

If you have CO2 injection, go ahead and toss it in your tank. It'll get going quickly that way.



Sunstar said:


> here's a pic of the Seedling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

I don't have co2 injection and I don't mind the slow pace. I intend to take the tank appart in a few months. So no need to disrupt the babies then. 

I would like to dwarf it by pruning. But I might want to get my mother a new water feature for her new home for mothersday. So I will grow one for her.


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## zer0zax (Mar 25, 2007)

Sunstar- I think your mother would really enjoy having a water lily from the old house!

Nelumbo74- I searched on Google very briefly and it looks to me like most tropical lilies are quite a bit bigger than the zenkeri and stellata. I found a few dwarf hardy lilies that would be slightly smaller, but the leaves didn't look as attractive. If you have any recommendations on how to keep the lily smaller, please do tell!


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## Nelumbo74 (May 2, 2008)

Some of the tropicals do get quite large, but the smaller ones are not dwarfs. If you were to grow out zenkeri or stellata in a pond, they would get quite large. _N. daubenyana_ ("Dauben") is also commonly used in planted tanks. It is one of the smaller growing tropicals, but it isn't a dwarf. They are kept small by pruning. There are two dwarf hardy lilies, but they are not suitable for planted tanks, since they require a dormant period. One is a hybrid called "Helvola", and the other is a U.S. native, and one of the parents of Helvola, _N. tetragona_.



zer0zax said:


> Sunstar- I think your mother would really enjoy having a water lily from the old house!
> 
> Nelumbo74- I searched on Google very briefly and it looks to me like most tropical lilies are quite a bit bigger than the zenkeri and stellata. I found a few dwarf hardy lilies that would be slightly smaller, but the leaves didn't look as attractive. If you have any recommendations on how to keep the lily smaller, please do tell!


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

I have also heard you can effect a bonsi type effect by pruning the roots of the plant.


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## Nelumbo74 (May 2, 2008)

You could also keep it in a very small pot to restrict the growth. 

BTW, Nymphaea lotus is another tropical waterlily that is commonly used in planted tanks. In the wild, or if given enough room in a garden pond, the floating leaves of this plant can get to a foot across, or so.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

I have tiger lotus (red) in my tank. I love the thing. but right now its not a very big plant. I hope by the time I get my tank replanted, it'll be larger and I can get one of my hardy waterlillies in (I want that to surface)


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## zer0zax (Mar 25, 2007)

Helvola was the hardy dwarf lily I read about, I didn't know they would need a dormancy period though. I want to get a green zenkiri and let the leaves float also, but I don't want one leaf to cover the whole surface! I will use a smaller pot and trim leaves when they spread past 1.5 feet. Any idea on how long I should go before repotting/root trimming?

Sorry for jacking your thread Sunstar! I have a feeling I am about to become a nymphaea addict!


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

Hey I don't mind this at all. Its easy to become addicted to nymphaea. I love my little tiger lotus
which has grown since the pic below was taken. It's still little, but a new leaf is growing. I was given the tineyst plant and been mothering it.

Often, it is said to trim the leaves that want to head for the surface because it is an interesting plant in its own right underwater. They also say, once it shoots off surface leaves, that's all it wants to produce. But when it does shoot off the surface leaves, then it'll want to flower and those flowers can be exquisit.

I suppose what you can do is trim off the older unhappy leaves and leave the young uns to grow. Also if you leave it in a pot, just pull it out from time to time, trim off the excess roots and plant it again.


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## Nelumbo74 (May 2, 2008)

Yes, all hardy lilies require a period of dormancy, and even in a greenhouse, they will go into at least a semi-dormant state for a few months. I have never tried to grow Helvola in an aquarium. However, it might be kind of interesting to experiment with it in a planted tank, and see how it goes. When it goes dormant, it might just be temporary like Barclaya.

Per Tropica's database, "Zenkeri" is a cultivar of Nymphaea lotus. Also, per Kasselmann's book, "Zenkeri" is a synonym for N. lotus. Therefore, if allowed to grow in an outdoor pond, it would probably grow quite large. I cannot find "Zenkeri" in any of my Nymphaea nomenclature references, so I think it is a name that has been bestowed by the aquarium trade, and not an officially registered cultivar. In fact, Nymphaea lotus, in my opinion, is a generic trade name as well. Nymphaea lotus is a species plant from Northern Africa, and is not variable in appearance like the specimens we use in our tanks. After reading about it in Kasselmann's book, I think that she, as well as the aquarium trade, has grouped quite a few plants under the general name Nymphaea lotus. Although she does state at the end of her entry that this is a polymorph species, I can find no other information to support that. I guess that is a research project for another day and another thread.

I have seen this plant get quite large in planted tanks with high light and CO2. In fact, in Kasselman's book, she says the submersed leaves can get to 25 cm (approx 10 inches) in diameter. However, I don't think you need to worry about one leaf covering the surface of your tank.



zer0zax said:


> Helvola was the hardy dwarf lily I read about, I didn't know they would need a dormancy period though. I want to get a green zenkiri and let the leaves float also, but I don't want one leaf to cover the whole surface! I will use a smaller pot and trim leaves when they spread past 1.5 feet. Any idea on how long I should go before repotting/root trimming?
> 
> Sorry for jacking your thread Sunstar! I have a feeling I am about to become a nymphaea addict!


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## Nelumbo74 (May 2, 2008)

Actually, I must correct myself. I was confusing N. lotus with N. caerulea. N. lotus does appear to be a variable species. N. caerulea is the common Blue Lotus that you always see in photos of the Nile River, and is not a variable species. Both are large plants, in general. 

When it comes down to it, I think almost any commercially available tropical lily could be adapted to a planted tank. There are so many cultivars available with some beautifully patterned leaves. I think it would be an interesting experiment.


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## zer0zax (Mar 25, 2007)

Sunstar- I like how your lotus is bushing out, it looks like your using Co2! When I get a lotus I want to keep it in a 3" cocofiber pot and trim the roots every 6 months or so. Hopefully it will grow well with AaronT's mineralized soil (and flower)!

I heartily agree that experimenting with a bunch of different lilies would be awesome, plus I think there are a lot more that could survive in our aquariums instead of the general 3 or 4 common ones used. For hardy lilies that need dormancy, would it be possible to put the bulb in the fridge for dormancy? Then you could have a bulb in your tank and another bulb in the fridge, switching them out when the other needs a rest.

If we all had more money, we could have quite a few test tanks and lilies to try out...Oh well, guess we can find out by a lily at a time!


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

I am using a DIY Co2 system. I started using Excel a week ago. I would like to go to a proper Co2 System. Sometime in the future.


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## zer0zax (Mar 25, 2007)

Cheater! I mean...um...of course I knew you were using Co2! Your plants look very healthy, and that lotus looks like it is hugging the substrate. I can't wait to see how your pond lily will do in that tank![smilie=l:


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

I am also just a little over 2 watts per gallon. So that probably helps. It does with the glosso. I am more than pleased that that has grown as well as it has.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

Only one survived. leaf is about the size of a dime. It is in my nano vase.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Sunstar, I hope I'm not hi-jacking this thread, but look what I found on a co-workers book-shelf yesterday!! I scarified 4 seeds and put them in a cup of water. What do you think? Will they sprout?



















-Dave


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