# Need criticism.



## Conankills (Aug 26, 2007)

First timer, been reading posts on this great forum for a total of one week. Known about NPTs and Walstad for a week plus one day. Have kept an aquarium since I was 11yrs old. No not the same one, but I haven't boiled goldfish with an oversized heater since I was 14.

I have just set up my first 10g NPT.
I mostly know what to do, but I am on a very strict budget and hence why I haven't read Walstad's book yet. I am also a full-time University student with a full-time job, therefore I knew that an NPT would be perfect for me. I am planning to read Walstad's book sometime, but probably won't happen until Christmas since I am studying higher level History courses.

I set up my NPT 3 days ago, not much change in the water chemistry since.

Here are the specs: 
Lighting: 1 20 Watt daytime compact fluorescent in a desk lamp over the tank, on for about 12 hours.
Filtration: 1 external filter for a 10g tank, minus the filter medium (mechanical only).
CO2: DIY ghetto setup. But it works!
Heater: Not adjustable, meant for a 5g tank. Will update to an adjustable one soon.
Water: Well water (N.W. Connecticut, hard water).
Nitrate: about 15ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Total Hardness (GH): 150-300ppm
Chlorine(kH):0ppm
Alkalinity:120-180ppm
pH:7.2 - 7.8

I have the regular Home Depot top soil, 1 1/2", under the gravel. I put the soil through a screen to get the large debris out, but did not expose the soil to the air any more than 3 hours. The gravel on top of it is another 1". 
No daylight reaches the tank, and the water temperature is around 75-85 degrees.

In the tank I have one Betta (name is Brock Samson - from Midnight Swim's Venture Brothers) who is constantly battling his arch rival and nemesis - his own reflection.

In terms of plants I have:
1 Bleheri(Petco)
5-6 strands of an unknown plant(Petco)
3 sparse clumps of Micro Sword(Petco)
3 strands of the dreaded Eurasian Milfoil form the local pond
1 clump of unknown underwater grass from the same pond
3 itsy bitsy, tiny weenie growths of unknown plant form the same pond
1 clump of dying Java Moss (don't know how I am killing it, but I am)
3 pieces of half alive Java Fern
Several fleets of duckweed plus all the invertebrates (water fleas, 1 water bug, 2 shrimps, 6 snails) that were stowaways on the plants from the pond.

Around here we don't have much in terms of serious Aquatic supplies. Petco is the only place to get anything of an assortment for aquarium supplies (even this assortment sucks! Excuse my French). No specialty shops at all. 
My Bleheri came with the browned spots from Petco. The Micro Swords and the unknown strands of plants were also from Petco.

My questions are: 
Do I need more light? If so, what kind? (Not wasting money on expensive T15 whatever ripoffs)
Should I wait to get more fish into the tank? If so, how many and what kind? 
I am planning to get some Wisteria soon. Should I? Good for beginners I guess.
Can I expect the water chemistry to change drastically over the next 3 weeks?
Is Elvis really dead?

Bottom line is that I will have little time and money to spend on the tank(s) ( I have another 20g tank that is the textbook version of a jerry rigged miracle supporting fish life).

This forum is great, Diana Walstad is a genius and I can't wait to read her book. 
Betty Harris and her web page on making an NPT inspired me to make my own, so I owe her a big one, and kudos for her pictorial step-by-step instructions http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html.

PICTURES FOLLOW!!!!!!









My duckweed.








This is the NPT tank. Notice the vacant porcelain suitcase (Brock doesn't like it) and the improvised CO2 Bell.








Don't know what this plant is. One of the ones from Petco. Any ideas?








One clump of the Micro Sword.








This is the Bleheri. What should I do with the browning leaves? Cut them off, or wait another week?








This is the unknown clump of water grass from the pond. Anyone know what it may be?








The awful Eurasian Milfoil!!! Lets see what happens.








Are these snails good for clean up? Should I get other types? If so, where?

That is all I got. 
I really appreciate what you guys are doing here. Great hobby.
I fully plan on not killing anything in the next few months, so any help would be much appreciated!


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## SKSuser (Mar 20, 2006)

Hey!
Looks like you're off to a good start.
Is this your snail? Its hard to tell from your picture angle.








Some people love them, others hate them. I end up spending more time watching the snails than the fish.
They shouldn't bother your plants too much, and they'll eat stuff that lands on your leaves, break your waste
into smaller waste, and eat dead and dying leaves. So, yes they're good for cleanup.
If thats not your snail, check here for a good writeup of freshwater snails to see what you've got.

The soil is not the only thing that makes it El Natural. Its a good start, but as the poop builds up, you may venture away
from CO2 injection, because the mulm creates CO2 (and multitudes of other things) as it breaks down. As to your lighting,
this is definately enough, especially if you have a window to set the tank by.
As I understand it, many of Diana's style tanks have no overhead light to speak of and rely entirely on natural light from a window.
You're doing good not overloading your tank. Diana calls for a light fish load. She also calls
for liberal feedings, something I'm not too fond for the betta. They tend to get constipated sometimes.

I havn't done El Natural yet, but since I've read the book I'm an expert right?







...
Anyway, I'm sure someone that has read the book and done it will come along soon enough with wonderful advice.


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

I love these snails. Nice and small.
Great for eating the dead leaves of my val (see my link).
They may keep the glass a little cleaner. I see baby ones all the time (look like little slime circles since I can't see the shells).
For snails they move pretty fast and seem to do interesting things with there buoyancy enabling them to ride on very frail plants.
Sometimes they even swim upside down.
My betta likes eating them too. Go figure. I actually saw him attack one when I was pruning.

You'll probably notice planarians and really small crustaceans. Just like you own little pond.


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## Conankills (Aug 26, 2007)

Thanks for the reply guys.
SKSuser, yeah I have those kinds of snails, just six to start with, but I am sure there are eggs on the duckweed. I will probably look for other types of snails so I can have a well rounded janitorial staff. Good point on the mulm, can't wait till I can take the CO2 out because it kind of kills the whole natural thing. 
I am also planning on a blue background, sort of a blue-fade background. 

Like newbie314 said, the snails are actually fast movers, this is why I couldn't get a better shot of one. I do have past experience with these snails and I know for a fact that given the right conditions, they will swarm a tank (and inbreed and look like the pirates from the Flying Dutchman). I wonder how hard it is to get water fleas to breed in an NPT? Free food for fish?

How far should I keep the light from the surface of the tank, keeping in mind that I do have duckweeds which I think need more light than submersed plants. 
I am also noticing some yellowing on the tips of the Micro Swords. Is this a process of transitioning (from Petco hell) or should I do something? 
Should I get Tetras or go to the other side of the planet and get Barbs? I don't want Brock to raise hell with any new additions. 

Thanks again.


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

Hey Conankills:

First of all, let me say that the tank looks great. I would def. add wisteria, as the tank could use more plants. Make sure you have some floaters, which I see you do, actually, you want about a third of the surface covered with floaters (at least that's what I remember Diana recommending). She also suggests keeping a "moderate" fish load, not a light one. I've never really been able to determine what a moderate load is exactly, except that it's somewhere between a light one and a heavy one.  You could def. use more fish in that tank. I would add four or five small cories and a small school of some small fish (guppies, small tetras, etc...) to add a little more interest. As for lighting, you should be ok w/ 2 wpg, especially if the tank is near a window. However, do not add any more fish right now. The reason I say this is b/c I too used home depot's generic potting soil and had a HUGE nitrite spike after about a week. You want to keep a close eye on the nitrite levels. Measure it every day or every other day for a couple of weeks. As soon as it goes up, you're gonna have to remove all the fish. This is easy with a betta as you can keep him in any largish jar or vase (you can find cheap ones at Michael's or any other decent craft store. If you stock the tank with a bunch of fish removing them somewhere safe will be a pain, to say the least. Keep an eye on those nitrites until they go down (4 - 6 weeks). You can change the water during that time, but truth is, the nitrite will just be back at its high levels the next day so I wouldn't even bother. Plus, your plants will love the nutrients.

Well, hope this answers your questions. I agree w/ what was said about the snails although I had a problem with them growing to plague proportions. Also, I'm not convinced that bettas will necessarily eat them, though I've heard many stories of them doing so. I've never seen my bettas eat snails unless I crush them first. Also, the betta won't keep the snail population from getting out of control (for that I keep a couple of clown loaches which I have witnessed eating snails, and it's really quite amusing).

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

-ricardo

PS Yes, Elvis is dead. Long dead. So is Tupac. But their spirits live on (for better or worse (think Elvis impersonators)).


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

No Bettas are no way to control snails. Although I've had no problems yet.

The Betta jumps for the water surface snails, grabs the insides and smashes the snail against the glass. At least that is what I thought happened when I was pruning the plants. All I saw was a splash and then a scratching sound on the plexiglass and then a snail on the bottom of the tank in the corner with no guts. Then again human memory is not that good. I can't remember for certain I even saw the snail shell fall to the bottom.


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

newbie314 said:


> No Bettas are no way to control snails. Although I've had no problems yet.
> 
> The Betta jumps for the water surface snails, grabs the insides and smashes the snail against the glass. At least that is what I thought happened when I was pruning the plants. All I saw was a splash and then a scratching sound on the plexiglass and then a snail on the bottom of the tank in the corner with no guts. Then again human memory is not that good. I can't remember for certain I even saw the snail shell fall to the bottom.


That's really freaking cool! I might just add some small snails to the betta tanks!

-ricardo


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

That unidentified plant looks like it might be Hygrophila. If it is, great. I love it, it grows super fast and looks great. I could be wrong though, lots of plants look so much alike. Hygrophila is propagated by cutting off the tops and replanting them into the substrate when it gets tall enough for you.

In my 10g I ran my co2 line directly into my intake on the hob by shoving it between the little slats. It works better than a bell and doesn't come off the glass in the middle of the night and evacuate all your co2 like my stupid bell used to do. And it doesn't take up room in the tank either.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

SKSuser said:


> You're doing good not overloading your tank. Diana calls for a light fish load. She also calls for liberal feedings, something I'm not too fond for the betta. They tend to get constipated sometimes.


I'm not sure that she calls for a light fish load. Fish process the fish food and convert it to plant nutrients, and the more fish one has, the more nutrients are produced. But one could also keep just a few fish (or none?) and just dose extra fish food, which will do the same thing as it rots on the bottom.

Fish add a lot of interest to a tank, particularly a NPT. The old rule of one (body) inch per fish per gallon works pretty well for smaller-sized fish.

BTW, those who maintain high tech tanks generally keep low fish loads, because they prefer to control the nutrients via dosing, and fish and their byproducts get in the way of that.

Bill


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## Conankills (Aug 26, 2007)

I finally have some time to read and reply.
Thanks for all the advice. 
I am now humbled by the insanity of how fast Eurasian Milfoil grows - 3 days - that is all I have had them for! Just scroll down, you'll see what I am talking about, no wonder it is a pest.
Otherwise the tank is fine, I set up a chart to keep track of all the parameters involved with the water and inhabitants. 
My snails have already layed eggs (3 days!) and I will have to dive in (figuratively) and get all the adults out and back into my stream. 
Flagg, thanks for the info. I think I will get a few more fish, though I haven't decided on what combination. The chemistry is my top concern and I am waiting for any spikes like you have mentioned. Brock is not attacking the snails, but I will see what he does with the wee ones when they hatch (Buh Ha Ha Ha!!). 
Carissa1 I think you are right, but I saw a similar one w/different name in the Plant Finder, gotta check it out again to confirm. So far so good with the CO2 Bell, I might get a setup like you mentioned just as soon as I have the time and cash, plus the bell is just getting too...how should I describe it... archaic? Other than that, I think the CO2 might be coming out within a month or less. I have a creeping suspicion that it is partly responsible for the growth rate of the Milfoil. 
Bill, I agree with you that looking at an NPT is much more "funner" with things that move in it (nothing against plants, but they only move when I poke them).

Compare the pics of the Milfoil - "Yes, we'll have to go right to...Ludicrous speed!"










This is the plant the day I got it (3 days ago) - weak and about 2 " in length.










Here it is today. Almost 3 TIMES THE SIZE!!!


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## Conankills (Aug 26, 2007)

I have some new dilemmas.
My Nitrite levels have gone up to 1.0ppm from 0. In response I am changing 25% of the water and adding a few pinches of salt, and a little bit of plant fertilizer. 
In the meantime I lost Brock (Betta) and I suspect I lost him because I got 5 Leopard Danios, 2 of which developed bulging eyes and died. I figure he nibbled on one of the dead fish before I could take it out. He had some white fuzz around his head when he was dead. 
And never mind about the mass neon tetra die-out (wimps!), that is why I got the Leopard Danios.

I still have not been able to get Diane's book due to financial constrains. 
Plant wise I am noticing certain things. The following pictures will elaborate.










I am guessing this is normal for a plant to do. The leaves were cut in the store (Petco) before I got it and these cut leaves are the ones browning and dying. There are new leaves though so I am not very worried. (or should I be?)










Is this transparency a nutrient deficiency or a chemical imbalance?










When I took out 25% of the water, I noticed these little bumps on the glass. I am guessing they are either algae or some other bacteria (they are on all glass surfaces). Can anybody confirm what they are, and what eats them?

Thank You for any input.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

> I have some new dilemmas.
> 
> My Nitrite levels have gone up to 1.0ppm from 0. In response I am changing 25% of the water and adding a few pinches of salt, and a little bit of plant fertilizer.
> 
> ...


Hi!

I'm sorry for your losses.

The fact that your nitrites are at 1.0 strongly suggests that you have or had an ammonia problem. Ammonia is quite toxic to fish, particularly at higher pH levels.

The danios could have been infected when you got them, and they infected the betta, or they all could have been weakened by the ammonia and killed by it or by something else.

The corrective action is to remove the source of the ammonia, if it is still there, and do 50% water changes until there is no more ammonia and nitrites. Then you can restock.

It is usually not a good idea to add chemicals to an aquarium. If you do, you should have a specific reason for doing it, and dose a specific, measured amount.

It is also not a good idea to add new fish to an established tank. While most of us violate that rule on occasion, sooner or later an infected fish will arrive and infect the healthy fish. New fish should be quarantined.

I would remove the leaves that were damaged in the store. They probably won't heal.

Now you can give me some information  I have also harvested Eurasian milfoil and tried grow it, but it died out. My theory was that, first, where I collected it, it is a seasonal plant and dies back to a root by the end of September and therefore would do the same in an aquarium, and, second, that the area where I collected it is part of a cool water ecosystem, a bay on Lake Ontario, and maybe the tropical tank was just too warm. Please let me know how it does for you.

BTW, there are a number of myriophyllum species in North America. M. spicatum (Eurasian millfoil) is an invasive import; the others are more benign. Are you sure that you don't have one of those others instead?

Good luck!

Bill


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## Conankills (Aug 26, 2007)

Thanks for the critical thinking aquabillpers.

I most likely have a source of ammonia though I would have to do some research to find out what is causing it (I hope it isn't the top soil I used, if so I will have to evict the residents for a bit). If nothing happens to the nitrite levels in a few days I will change out 25% more of the water. 

The plant fertilizer I put in with this first water change was Jungle brand 0-0-5 Fertilizer and Water Conditioner. The fertilizer is made of 5% K2O (soluble potash) and .10% iron/chelated iron, the conditioner removes chlorine and chloramine. 

Should I use one of those off the shelf ammonia detoxifiers to take care of the ammonia? I have API brand Ammo Lock. Or should I add salt like the last time?

I will clip away the dying leaves.

As for the Milfoil: I am pretty sure that it is Eurasian Milfoil since the local lake (man made by the way, 1920s) has had this problem for decades and the dominant species are Eurasian Milfoil and Eel Grass. 
Here in CT we have some pretty nasty, humid summers and water temp. for most still body waters get to around 68-75 degrees in the summer. The lake freezes over in the winter. I did notice that the Milfoil likes lots of light and decent water temp. (60-70s) and this maybe why mine is growing leaps and bounds. Maybe the overall temp. for L. Ontario doesn't get high enough.

Gotta go, fried chicken is waiting.


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

Sorry about the problems you are having. That really hurts.

I wonder if you need to add a little bit more light so the plants (especially duckweed and fast growers) can grow and absorb the ammonia.

My new tank (20g -long) had some ammonia two days ago but I set up a dual light (8000oK x2 - total 36W) and is beside a window. Looks like the new test kit says no ammonia.

The 2.5g my son has, has a 10w which means 4W/gallon. Most things grow like weed especially the java moss right now (so much for being a slow grower).

Try some extra light. Maybe you need a more aquarium specific bulb if you arent' already using one.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Conankills said:


> Thanks for the critical thinking aquabillpers.
> 
> I most likely have a source of ammonia though I would have to do some research to find out what is causing it (I hope it isn't the top soil I used, if so I will have to evict the residents for a bit). If nothing happens to the nitrite levels in a few days I will change out 25% more of the water.


If the nitrite levels stay high after you do a water change, and you have removed all rotting stuff, then the substrate is the only source left (assuming that your water supply isn't contaminated.) You can continue doing daily water changes or bite the bullet and start anew. I would do the former for a week and if that didn't help, I'd bite.



> The plant fertilizer I put in with this first water change was Jungle brand 0-0-5 Fertilizer and Water Conditioner. The fertilizer is made of 5% K2O (soluble potash) and .10% iron/chelated iron, the conditioner removes chlorine and chloramine.


I wouldn't add any fertilizer until it appeared that the plants needed it, and usually they do not in a NPT environment. You still have to add something to remove the chlorine and chloramine, though, to the new water.



> Should I use one of those off the shelf ammonia detoxifiers to take care of the ammonia? I have API brand Ammo Lock. Or should I add salt like the last time?


I"d say no to both. Using Ammo Lock to remove the ammonia is just putting a bandage over a bad wound. The salt has no effect except to stress your plants.



> As for the Milfoil: I am pretty sure that it is Eurasian Milfoil since the local lake (man made by the way, 1920s) has had this problem for decades and the dominant species are Eurasian Milfoil and Eel Grass.
> Here in CT we have some pretty nasty, humid summers and water temp. for most still body waters get to around 68-75 degrees in the summer. The lake freezes over in the winter. I did notice that the Milfoil likes lots of light and decent water temp. (60-70s) and this maybe why mine is growing leaps and bounds. Maybe the overall temp. for L. Ontario doesn't get high enough.


OK, thanks.

Bill


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## Conankills (Aug 26, 2007)

I think I will add more light and see what happens. Not enough light would explain why the duckweed is dying. 
Otherwise I have some work to do on the tank. I will get back with the results soon. 

Thanks for the info guys! 

It looks like I gotta get the book real soon.


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

My lighting for the 2.5g goes beyond the recommended levels in the Book. But I don't seem to have an issue.

Watch the roots of the duckweed. I dinf if they get tangled with something like Java Moss, it stunts their growth, which makes sense since they get less nutrients.

I would recommended Anacharis. Cheap and fast to grow.


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

Conankills said:


> Carissa1 I think you are right, but I saw a similar one w/different name in the Plant Finder, gotta check it out again to confirm. So far so good with the CO2 Bell, I might get a setup like you mentioned just as soon as I have the time and cash, plus the bell is just getting too...how should I describe it... archaic? Other than that, I think the CO2 might be coming out within a month or less.


You shouldn't need any cash....just take the airline off your diffusion bell, take the intake tube off your filter, and shove the tube between the little slats on the intake tube, and replace. If you want to be more efficient you can get a skinny airstone to put on the end of the airline (up inside the filter tube) but this is not necessary.


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## Conankills (Aug 26, 2007)

I am looking for a new light bulb, preferably full spectrum/plant bulb for the tank. I think the inhabitants will like it more. I have also been thinking about moving the tank near a window so it will get more natural light. Right now just a little hits it around 3pm and this will change as fall and winter move in. 

Actually, Carrisa1, I had the same explosion of creativity when I put the filter and CO2 air tube together in my mind one day! I am debating on making another mixture, but I might just skip it and let the fish, mulm, soil take over the CO2 production.

Tomorrow I am testing the water again for Nitrites. Got my fingers crossed.

By the way, I am wondering if any one knows how much water flow is too much for an NPT? I have to sort of control my filter by plugging the slots where.... not important (has to do with bamboo). Anyways, if i have the filter run like normal, it creates a powerful current in the 10g tank and stirs up the mulm.


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

Marineland sells a 10W 5500K with a standard light bulb socket.
That's what is used on the 2.5g tank.


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## aqualandcullen (Dec 8, 2006)

You said Petco is one of your only local sources for aquarium livestock and supplies. Are you any where near Torrington, CT? You should give Hilltop Aquarium a try. A lady runs an awesome store in the bottom floor of her house. Her fish are a lot better than anything you'll find at one of those chain stores. I think she's been keeping aquariums for more than forty years, so she has some pretty interesting bits of advice. She doesn't always carry a large variety of plants, but she has plants sometimes.

Also aquarium clubs are a great way to learn about many aspects of the hobby. I'm a member of Aqua-Land Aquarium Society in Bristol, CT. We have meetings every second Tuesday of the month. www.aqualandtropical.org

Hilltop Aquarium 
(860) 482-5193
159 Roberts St, Torrington, CT


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## Conankills (Aug 26, 2007)

Actually I was intending on visiting her place, but haven't gotten a chance yet. Society sounds interesting. 

Otherwise, the tank has stabilized. Plants are growing slowly, I also took out the CO2 system. 
I haven't gotten a stronger light bulb yet but I am planning on getting one tomorrow. I also gotta get a glass hood, the one I have now is for land-lubber creatures (wire mesh) so I do have plenty of evaporation. 
Then I gotta move the tank where it gets at least 2 hours of sunlight.


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## Conankills (Aug 26, 2007)

Duh!
I bought a 40W full spectrum bulb to replace the compact fluorescent (daylight replicating) I have been using. Of course I forgot that the light that the 20W compact flour. gives out is about 4 times that of what it is labeled as. 
So this means that my 40W full spectrum is dull and nowhere near as bright.
Back to the drawing board. 

By the way, I remember something being mentioned about the importance of floating plants in an NPT. 
Is this because they block out some light therefore the plants wont get "sun burnt"? All of mine died off, I'm guessing because the tank didn't cycle yet when I had them in. Or because they are seasonal (Connecticut). 

I really have to get her book!


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

SKSuser said:


> Hey!
> Looks like you're off to a good start.
> Is this your snail? Its hard to tell from your picture angle.
> 
> ...


I love betta they have strong attitude, thus they are not afraid of you. They seem to float around. For constipation you can feed them peas. I saw someone doing it on utube. Read somewhere on internet that peas are good for bettas when they are ill. If you ever want to breed check out this site-http://www.bettysplendens.com/articles/catview.imp?catid=855 I gives several examples how to breed them. There is even one method where dad is left with fry in 10G tank


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

Nice tank. If I can find some of those plants at a low price I am going to buy them. At present I have bought a few plants from ebay - Aquadise Store; for the plants were only $3. with no shipping cost. I have a betta now. I had neons in there, whom died, and he never paid them any attention. I wonder if having the betta first helps. For most fish attach the betta. Hans, my betta was looked at as the boss. The neons stayed away from him. Years ago I had a betta in a 20G tank with guppies. Everything was peaceful. He swam on the bottom most of the time. I left him with friends when I moved. When he died they replaced with another betta. The new betta ate all of the fish. I guess they are all different.


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

If you ever decide to breed your betta check out this site http://www.bettysplendens.com/articles/catview.imp?catid=855 He shows a method where dad is left with fry in 10G tank.


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## Conankills (Aug 26, 2007)

Rabid Bettas, thats new. Unfortunately, if you haven't read previous posts, my Betta died. Most likely he contracted something from the Danios I got. I am keeping to just a few fish for now (Danios, one (surviving) neon, and an Oto). 
My plants are fine, they are growing very well without the CO2 system. I had my first outbreak (minor) of algae - keeping tabs on that daily. Fish are happy and colorful, though I will get a couple of other neons from a good breeder. The single neon seems to commingle with the Danios a little, but I know they prefer groups.


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## TigerLilly (Feb 11, 2007)

My only advice is to loose the duckweed just because it will be a PNTA to get rid of. Every little tiny tid bit that you manage to not manually pick out of your tank will be the seed needed to flourish a whole new colony.


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

Conankills said:


> Duh!
> I bought a 40W full spectrum bulb to replace the compact fluorescent (daylight replicating) I have been using. Of course I forgot that the light that the 20W compact flour. gives out is about 4 times that of what it is labeled as.
> So this means that my 40W full spectrum is dull and nowhere near as bright.
> Back to the drawing board.
> ...


I've heard this idea about cf's being brighter. As far as I know it's a total myth. I can't think of any reason why cf's would be any brighter than regular florescent bulbs. In fact I've heard, and it makes sense, that due to the shape of the bulb and restrike, they are actually less efficient than regular tubes. I believe that this myth started when someone noticed that they provide the incandescent approximation on the package for people who are not used to buying florescent bulbs (which is about 4x more) and someone assumed that this was the florescent wattage. However, if anyone can explain to me why cf's would be brighter than regular florescent tubes, I'll gladly change my view.


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## Squawkbert (Jan 3, 2007)

See if your library has Diana's book, or can get it via interlibrary loan programs (there are not a ton of libraries that have it and will loan it out, but there are some).

Since you used soil, you may not be in need of DIY CO2. I suspect you added fish too soon as a water change or two are frequently in order when setting up a NPT due to NH3 and other stuff coming from the soil. Also - you want to keep an eye on the pH. You may want to put some peat in the filter to get the pH down a bit (plants make much quicker use of ammonium, than they do of the more toxic, unprotonated form of ammonia). Other water parameters look good to start. If you still have fish & nitrite goes up again, you'll have to do water changes to keep that in check.


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## Conankills (Aug 26, 2007)

In regards to the compact fluorescent bulbs (the short spiral ones), they physically emit light that is about 3X stronger than the standard 40W I bought, yet the CF was only rated at 20W on the package. Most of the time I really don't pay attention to what the package claims, but the CF is a whole lot more luminous than the other bulb (as I found out when I did the switch).

Yeah, I guess I will have to check the libraries around here for her book. Nothing exciting regarding water chemistry since last post, just that the plants growing really fast and that the fish are in heaven.


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

How did you test the light output? I am interested in finding evidence for this, one way or another.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Here is a comparison of the amount of usable energy that is produced by several kinds of bulps:

A 3 WPG T12 = a 2.7 WPG T8 = 2.5 WPG spiral screw-in = 1.5 WPG T5.

The above are ballpark approximations, of course. I would like to see a more precise comparison.

The source of this is a brief thread between Tom Barr and me, at http://www.barrreport.com/general-plant-topics/3281-lighting-comparisons.html

BTW, in my opinion many of the supposed benefits of the spiral screw-in bulb are greatly exaggerated. They do not put out as much usable light as they advertise and while they might last "up to" 10 years, they might only if not turned on and off. Three of the 6 that I bought died in less than 3 years, and the built-in ballast in one began smoking.

Bill


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

Great info, I'm going to check out that thread. I just had a cf burn out after less than one month.


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## Conankills (Aug 26, 2007)

Is there a difference between the light we see and the light that we don't? If a bulb is physically brighter to an observer, does that mean that it is as beneficial to plants? Or do plants also use parts of the light spectrum that are not visible to human eyes?

In regards to the *cf* output, it is physically, (to an observer) brighter than the 40W standard bulb I bought. 
To clarify even more: I put the 40W in the socket, the light emitted was physically less - *aquarium darker* - than with the 20W *cf* - *aquarium brighter*. I don't mean to sound condescending, but I am not talking rocket science, just what is readily observable to any sentient, logical being in the universe .

I have new pics of aquarium!!! Anyone venture a guess to what the Milfoil-like plant is in the second picture? It is another Petco plant that is thriving.


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## Volenti (Oct 12, 2007)

Conankills said:


> Anyone venture a guess to what the Milfoil-like plant is in the second picture? It is another Petco plant that is thriving.


Ceratophyllum demersum, goes by hornwort or fox tail


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