# Driftwood placement



## AV8TOR (Mar 28, 2004)

Please describe what ever logic there is for driftwood location and placement. I have 3 pieces I am getting reading to put in a new 55 planted tank. One large triangle shaped that I am thinking maybe a center piece and the other two are more like limbs. They are Malaysian wood pieces. No doubt the location I pick will be wrong so I seek the wisdom of the group. The limb pieces do not have any slate to hold them in an upright position. I have plenty of sheet plastic at my disposal so I may position them as coming out of the substrate.


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## Sir_BlackhOle (Jan 25, 2004)

Maybe you could take some pictures and we could critique each placement?


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

You want to place them so that they look natural. I had a piece of driftwood that I forced upright to get the aquascape that I wanted. It never looked natural, so I gave up on it and stuck it in a hospital tank. The way it rested in the hospital tank when I just dropped it in looked really neat so I put it back in the tank.


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

Driftwood placement is a big area of interest for me, since my last three layouts all have very dramatic wood arrangements. I use mostly thin, branchy pieces of wood.

Some tips I can offer:

1) Practice. Each arrangement you make gets better and better. Plan an idea for your arrangement, draw it out. Know what plants you will use. It will save a lot of time, trust me. It took me 30 minutes to redo a design for my 20g when I knew what direction I would take. A cube I was working on took me a couple hours, since I had no idea what direction to take. No, it's not the cube I have in the journal. That layout is history.  

2) Always use odd numbers. Never use four branches, especially.

3) Position each branch so that it complements the others somehow --something you learn with a little practice, experience, and visualization. Never add a piece of driftwood just because it looks nice. Add it because it performs some function (balances the layout, adds interest, etc). 

Other than that, it's hard to give any hard set guidelines. Be creative and see what you get. IME, it's hard forcing a wood arrangement in an already established/laid out tank with plants. I would personally start from scratch.

Carlos


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## AV8TOR (Mar 28, 2004)

Sir_BlackhOle said:


> Maybe you could take some pictures and we could critique each placement?


Good Idea here they are. The tank is dry and I just placed them in a center focal point. My thought are to place a lot of tall in the background but I can decide whether to spread out the wood. It really did not look good but I do think plants will help.


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## Momotaro (Feb 17, 2004)

Interesting pieces of wood.

They are too centered, and too symmetrical as they stand right now. The wood also seem too similar in size for my eye.

It would take some time and some study to come up with a detailed idea on how I would place those pieces. 

First inclination, fast response, right off the bat would be to take the center piece of wood, turn it clockwise, and move it off center to the right a bit. I think I would then try to accent the large piece of wood with a couple of different, smaller pieces of wood. I think smaller accent pieces will give the aquarium an illusion of greater size when juxtaposed to the large piece of wood.

Just my quick opinion.

Mike


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## AV8TOR (Mar 28, 2004)

Thanks Mike. When you say turn it clockwise are you referring from the straight on front view just as the camera took the picture correct? Are you thinking like 90º? All opinions welcome so if you think of anything please let me know.


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## AV8TOR (Mar 28, 2004)

Here is a view with one piece removed and the larger piece rotated.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Much nicer although a bit to symetrical to me. At lesat as far as the location of each piece is concerned. Have you decided on any plants or an overall "shape" for hte tank. By shape I mean triangular, mound, concave, etc. 

The problem I see with the wood as it is now is the you have n some ways 2 seperate focal points. I would try to set it up so that the eye is drawn to one spot in the aquarium but alo lead away from it by other pieces of the scape. Amano's tanks are like that. You will notice that he uses alot of smaller "accent" branches in his layouts. These act as kind of visual highways. You look at one area of the tank and you eye automaticly starts to follow a branch back to the focal point of the whole aquarium, where it then picks up on another branch and is lead away to another part. The is a good write up of this somewhere, i think on the Amano website although I could be wrong.

It seems to me that a good aquascape will be harmonious (relaxing and not to busy) and have a good flow(the visual highways wich do not have to be branches. They can be rocks, a plant or grouping, shadow lines and even the lines created where the plant meet the substrate or othe plants). Everything will look in it's place and nothing will be distracting while at the same time there will be a subtle starting point (the focal point).


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## AV8TOR (Mar 28, 2004)

dennis said:


> Much nicer although a bit to symetrical to me. At lesat as far as the location of each piece is concerned. Have you decided on any plants or an overall "shape" for hte tank. By shape I mean triangular, mound, concave, etc.


As you can see layout is not one of my talents. As far as plants I was thinking some watersprite, red tiger lotus, rotala marcandra, anubias barteri, some swords ludwiga repaens and maybe some pigmy chain swords.
As far as "shape" to me it's a little difficult because that it is a 55 gallon. Only 13" to work with front to back. I was mostly thinking planting around the wood with accents. I guess concave then with a little open front swimming and viewing area.
Thanks


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Give yourself a bit of credit You are just starting out. As for hte shape check out this thread by Tsunami http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42 I found it to be very helpful. Also check out the AGA (aquatic gardners association) nad AB (aqua botanic) web sites. They both have galleries of past years contest entrants. These can be very inspiring nad really help to get the creative juices going. Just practice, practice practice. It does bot need to be woiht an actual tank. It can all be in your head, or on paper. It may be difficult at first but eventually you will realize that it has gotten easy. To me design is sort of like drawing. Get a basic idea and then produce something fast. When your mind is in a good place to come up wiht ideas, run wiht it. Make fast skeches to get your ideas down then go vack and work with them. Refine them. ANd one thing I am finally starting to learn, don't forget to stand back. You must look at what you are doing. I find I have a tendency to sort of do things willy milly and then look at hte results withh dissapointment. But, if I do them slowly, force myself to really "see" and take my time, then I am much happier

Just some more ramblings


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## AV8TOR (Mar 28, 2004)

dennis said:


> Give yourself a bit of credit You are just starting out. As for hte shape check out this thread by Tsunami http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42 I found it to be very helpful.


Thanks I had missed that post. Tonight I will try a layout where the center is open more by rotating the large piece as you mentioned and moving it to the far left or right and try the other/others on the opposite end.


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## Sir_BlackhOle (Jan 25, 2004)

Or maybe keep them as they are but shift them right or left and see how that looks.


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## AV8TOR (Mar 28, 2004)

Let me bug you you once more. I tried a shift as Sir_BlackhOle mentioned.


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## Sir_BlackhOle (Jan 25, 2004)

I dunno....looks like somethings missing or something....maybe swap the left and center piece?


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

The actual "visual" centerpoint of the layout should be ~5/8 from one side. In your case that is 30" It should also be aroung 1/3 the the height of the tank (from the bottom at the gravel's surface). As far as the wood goes I think I would loose one of the smaller peices. Also, I would try flipping everything 90 degrees, so the large piece was on the left side with the high side of it on the left and the angle it forms pointing down to the right. This may be just me but I think all of the triangle layouts I have seen look best with the high side on the right. They seem to have less tension. 

The ~30" piont would be at about 2/3 the length of the piece of wood. That would be your focal point. At that point I would do something a bit more dramatic, like completely negative space or some smaller branches behind that create "flow" (remember those visual highways through out the composition. You might also use a more dramatic plant at that point. That, of course, is based on you and your plant choices.

Hope I don't sound like I know it all. I am really not trying to tell you what to do. I am thinking out loud more thn anything. Ultimately, this is your tank and what matters is that your are happy (or as happy as we can ever be right?


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## AV8TOR (Mar 28, 2004)

OK thanks I will try that tonight.

Is the big piece too big? What do you feel about using the smaller two pieces?


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

I feel that you will have to use the big piece and one smaller piece. If you use each of the two smaller pieces, then the hardscaping will be too balanced on either side. 

The second to last photo looks the most promising of the lot. Just move both pieces, keeping them in the same general angle, a little to one side. 

Fifty-five gallons are hard to work with because they are narrow. However, they are not impossible. My best layout right now is a 55g.

Carlos


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## guppy (Mar 7, 2004)

what do you think about 3 small pieces(small then a bit bigger than one a bit bigger than the other one) for scaping a 30 gallon tall ? im thinking putting the two bigger ones as mountains and the other one laying down or something i havent seen anything like what i want to do out there yet...


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## aquoi (Mar 21, 2004)

Always use odd numbers. Nature is never looks even and balanced.


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## AV8TOR (Mar 28, 2004)

Last night I played around a little and instead of laying down the small branch types I stood one up and it made all the difference in the world. I switched and put the big piece to the left 1/3 and stood up the one to the right 1/3 with the other laying down in the back giving it a concave appearance. The other advantage was I could rotate the wood so it opened up two cavities where I could plant some Bolbitus in.


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## aquoi (Mar 21, 2004)

Here's my critic.










Please refer to upper pic...

(1) The placement of the larger piece of wood should be between the 2 smaller ones. Also, because of the form of the side facing the front (circled), you will end up with an ugly space there as planting around that space is akward. Try to let the side facing the front have more texture and is easier to plant around.

Wood(2) and wood(3) is too similar in shape (elongated), either change the wood or use different angles. Also consider bleaching / lightening the darker piece to balance the hues.

(4) A flat gravel is boring and lifeless. Try to use some angles or bury part of the woods in the gravel to create a more natural look, like a buried driftwood uncovered by currents...

(5) Try to follow the direction of the radial gradient of your background. A U shape is the best.

Please refer to lower pic...

Then grow a carpet around the structure and decorate with Java Fern, some red plants, etc...

The arrows are there to llustrate how this layout can express it's energy by radiating out. Fits the background perfectly.

2 cents!


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## aquoi (Mar 21, 2004)

Well... I had time and I kinda enjoy it. 
When I see potential in something, I always have the urge to express it...
I hope my concept will be of useful reference...

There's much more room for improvement, like using the golden ratio by arranging the wood more, balancing with rocks and plants, tying moss to the wood, you are only limited by your imagination.

You can use rocks to support the wood to achieve daring angles and perspective. The wood is like the skeleton of the scape, strengthening it will strengthen the overall aesthetics.


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

aquoi said:


> Well... I had time and I kinda enjoy it.
> When I see potential in something, I always have the urge to express it...
> I hope my concept will be of useful reference...
> 
> ...


Ok, how can you use the golden ratio effectively? I just did a search and found some stuff on it....but it confuses me... like you divide by 2.8? and how do you use that number?


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## aquoi (Mar 21, 2004)

This is a pretty good link 
http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/aquascapingprinc/aquascaping101.html

and my own
http://www.egeis.com/aqua/fhimage/Aquariums/Enzan_60/018_310304r.jpg

The dimensions of standard tanks also follow the golden ratio. For a 60x30x36cm tank the width to height ratio is roughly 1.6:1


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## Hanzo (Mar 9, 2004)

Wow, that is trully great Aquoi! I will defently post pics of my rock arrangment now, hoping the next Amano will grant me a comment


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

oh the golden ratio is 1:1.618..... I think I understand now. And it not only applies to using the whole tank, but also to using circles too. ok'


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## aquoi (Mar 21, 2004)

Hanzo said:


> Wow, that is trully great Aquoi! I will defently post pics of my rock arrangment now, hoping the next Amano will grant me a comment


Nah... I'm just applying my meager knowledge to what I love to do. Next Amano? never!! :shock: I'm pretty new to this hobby... though I wish I had his wisdom. :?


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## neonfish3 (Feb 12, 2004)

That is amazing how you did that. It is very good looking. What software did you use to move the pieces of driftwood around?

Steve <><


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## AV8TOR (Mar 28, 2004)

Wow aquoi can't wait till I get home and try that. Look great


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

yes! av8 is going to try your suggestion!!!! wow...that's awesome to be a part of that. I can't wait to see how it looks.... av8 do you have all your plants ready yet?


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## AV8TOR (Mar 28, 2004)

hubbahubbahehe said:


> yes! av8 is going to try your suggestion!!!! wow...that's awesome to be a part of that. I can't wait to see how it looks.... av8 do you have all your plants ready yet?


Going to more than try it........that is it. The plants should be here tomorrow.

Being this is a 55 gallon to arrange those two left and right pieces might touch the glass, is that OK?


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## AV8TOR (Mar 28, 2004)

Well here it is and I really like it. Thanks so much everyone and especially aquoi for taking the time to play around with it on the computer. It actually came out pretty close. I had to cut a few protrusions off the big piece to rotate just right. the other two pieces are locked under the big now but as you can see I did have to prop a rock under the one on the left. That gives me a nice shade area too. There are real nice spots on the wood for some fern bolbitus that I have coming.

Is the heater OK back there. I am lost without a sump. I did not want to put it right behind the center piece because there would be no room for plants there. I also added some slope as you suggested.

Thanks again


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## aquoi (Mar 21, 2004)

neonfish3 said:


> That is amazing how you did that. It is very good looking. What software did you use to move the pieces of driftwood around?
> 
> Steve <><


Photoshop CS.

Good luck in your scape AV8TOR!


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## Momotaro (Feb 17, 2004)

Well done!

I am cetainly going to follow your progress!

Mike


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## AV8TOR (Mar 28, 2004)

A little crazy with the holiday weekend. The tank got planted yesterday and it is looking quite nice. Most plants are only 8" tall. and the Red Tiger Lotus were all bulbs. Lots of air bubbles in the tank right now but clearing. It is making havoc with the CO2 reactor. The home made bubble counter did not work to good leaking gas under pressure. Right now I am counting bubbles going into the reactor.


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## Sir_BlackhOle (Jan 25, 2004)

I really like that look there


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## AV8TOR (Mar 28, 2004)

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond but here is the tank set up from aquoi's suggestion. I could not me more pleased. Been planted for a week and already I had to do some trimming. Amazing. Thanks so much again all that offered suggestions.

Sorry for the crappy picture, just learning the digital as well and no time to experiment. I just did not want to be rude and not show you the results.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Looking' good


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## Sir_BlackhOle (Jan 25, 2004)

Yes its coming along nicely. Be sure to keep us posted on whats happening with the tank!


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

Great start, I see you've obtained lots of healthy plants! I just have a few nitpicks though....

1) I feel that the wood got shuffled around during planting. Try getting it back to what aquoi originally posted. It makes a *big* difference in the presentation.

2) I see that the bunch of Rotala wallichii on the far right is packed together as one big bunch. You really should plant each 2-3 stems of this plant individually.

3) Just for presentation purposes, it's always best to even out the substrate lying against the front glass as best as you can.

Keep us updated!

Carlos


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## lokobreed (Apr 22, 2004)

*gravel*

Is it neccessary to have that much gravel?


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

hey so you are going for a island mound design? 

i wonder how it would look with a concave design.


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