# Vals and others not doing good



## JonnyThe (Apr 27, 2007)

My 40 gal tank has been set up for a couple of years now, though it's only had plants for several months. It has washed river sand for substrate, about 2 W/g of fluoro lighting, and I fertilize with liquid ferts from the lfs. Not trying to have an award-winning tank, but the plants are giving me a bit of trouble.

When it first went planted, only things like Elodea and hornwort grew well. Ambulia just went yellowish and stopped growing. Hairgrass isn't dead but it's not growing or spreading either.

Recently I got some (giant??) val which took off for a few weeks, putting out a few runners and new leaves. But the new leaves were weak and looked like something had been chomping on the edges. Now a few weeks later they aren't putting out any new leaves at all. The roots look healthy but aren't all that long.

So it seems rooted plants don't like my substrate or something is missing. There was plenty of mulm in the substrate so before planting I just moved the sand round a bit to catch the excess in the filter.

As for water chemistry:
Ammonia: non-detectable
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 15-20 ppm
pH: 7.2
dGH: 6
dKH: 7
25% water change a week.

Our tap water is very soft, so I added some shell grit to the substrate a while ago and this has helped increase the hardness to the above values, although it seems to still be increasing. And I add bicarb if the carbonate hardness starts going low.

So any idea as to why the vals, ambulia and other rooted plants are having trouble? I thought they were adjusting to the tank but it doesn't seem to be the case considering the other plants haven't been doing well. Do you think it could be they have used up the nutrients in the substrate? I have read vals don't often do well in soft water, but a friend has some in a smaller tank with almost the same water properties and substrate as mine and they're doing great. So is his ambulia. And he has less W/gal than me. The thing is the growth on the vals wasn't healthy, but it was nice and green. The elodea is still doing ok, and all other floating plants.

Could it be the substrate has turned toxic? It doesn't smell or anything, but I'm hoping I don't have to tear the tank down.

Tank inhabitants include dwarf gouramis, glass fish, bristlenose, otto and mollies and I haven't lost one yet. So the conditions can't be that bad.

So what other things could I look at? I thought of potting one of the vals in some topsoil and seeing if it improved.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

With the plants turning yellow, etc. I think it has to do more with a light issue than anything else. The limited light is keeping the plants 'alive' but not growing. I think once you increase the lighting you'll see a dramatic difference in growth and health.

Welcome to APC! 

-John N.


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## JonnyThe (Apr 27, 2007)

John N. said:


> With the plants turning yellow, etc. I think it has to do more with a light issue than anything else.


Thanks John.
I'm not sure if it is light intensity. But I did suspect that at first, until I saw my friend's tank. Doesn't giant val tolerate lower light levels? The only plant that really went yellow was the ambulia. It's more like anything that is planted in the substrate does poorly. Most aren't dying as such. They just don't grow. Then again, they are further from the light than the floating plants. So I guess that could be the problem.


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

my vals really didnt take off strong until i went with co2 and ferts. IDK what one of the two it was, but i went from having probably 6 new transparent leaves about 12" big, that didnt fill in for weeks, to now having val leaves that are about 30" long strong and healthy.


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## Mud Pie Mama (Jul 30, 2006)

Muirner said:


> my vals really didnt take off strong until i went with co2 and ferts.


Agreed. I had this same experience with my type of vals.

There are several varieties of _vallisneria_ and some need higher light and CO2. Tropica has a great article on their website about the different varieties of _vallisneria_:

http://www.tropica.com/default.asp

With 2 wpg on a 40 gallon tank you should be able to grow many medium light plants. One of the tricks is the proper plant selection - gearing heavily toward those plants which do well in medium light levels. Next is some fertilization: both macros and micros. And then some CO2 helps wonderfully. If not pressurized then regular dosing with Excel can make a world of difference.


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## abnormalsanon (Jun 6, 2006)

Higher light and CO2 will definitely help, if you can add it. In fact, once your vals get going you may wish you'd chosen a different plant! They can be quite invasive and send out runners all over the place. I thin them out about every 3-4 weeks in my tank to keep them from taking over.


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## JonnyThe (Apr 27, 2007)

I actually had a look at Tropica and other places before posting here. Most say it isn't very fussy about light and will tolerate lower intensities. However it looks like a lot of people have trouble growing it but there doesn't seem to be an answer why this is so. Apparently it sometimes goes through dormant periods as well.

Mine have still got a lot of older leaves on them, and they're still green but with holes etc in them. They just aren't putting out any new leaves. Or one might slowly grow a few inches and then stop. I thought the initial growth spurt when they were planted was from stored nutrients and/or mulm, which was rapidly used up. A couple even started growing flower spikes, and one had a baby. But this only lasted a couple of weeks.

BTW, I grew giant val in a 50 l tank several years ago with about the same light intensity, same substrate, same fertilizer and they were growing at least 6 inches a week. So I'm familiar how vals can grow.

What about temperature? Of the people that are having luck with their vals, what temps are your tanks?


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

abnormalsanon said:


> Higher light and CO2 will definitely help, if you can add it. In fact, once your vals get going you may wish you'd chosen a different plant! They can be quite invasive and send out runners all over the place. I thin them out about every 3-4 weeks in my tank to keep them from taking over.


Isnt this the truth. I have some right now sending runners everywhere since i started to fertalize and dose. I like the plant but it's just to big lol. I'm thinking of taking it out.


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