# CSM+B and Shrimp



## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

As the title says, i use CSM+B in my fert schedule. I dose via the PPS-Pro method, and i'm curious if I get cherries will they suffer due to the .10% Copper (chelated) in the mix?


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

The cherry shrimp should be fine. I kept cherries and dosed CSM+B with no ill effects and I know of several others that do as well.


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

I dosed double EI with RCS,CRS, Tiger, sp.Blue and Amano and they all have been fine.


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## Leonard (Mar 4, 2007)

best to do Ei with shrimps or would it bee ok to change water only 1time/month?


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

ok, so now that brings me to my last question, how do i make a prefilter for the intake of my xp3? If i want to get shrimp in there i dont want them to be sucked up.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Muirner said:


> how do i make a prefilter for the intake of my xp3?


Try Panty hose or get a cheap filter media mesh bag. Works like a charm!










-John N.


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

I do water changes 1xweek. 

With the pre-filter I buy the blocks of sponge offered at most LFS for wet/dry-sumps and just use a block about 2" square and just poke a knife down the middle so that it will slide onto the intake.


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

Sweet great advice guys!!! NOw all i need is someone to give my mailman a good kick in the ass to get my KH solution here LOL, maybe i'll be ordering some shrimpies for this tank


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## Jookie (Sep 30, 2003)

I use CSM+B with my cherry tank. Just to be sure copper doesn't kill them, I added Seachem Cuprisorb to my filter. It's cheap, and it is reusable.

As for the sponge intake, I just got an air pump driven sponge filter and replaced my regular intake on my Eheim with that. I siliconed around the edges just to be sure there isn't any leakage. Works like a charm, and It's black so it doesn't stand out.

As far as water changes, I don't recommend EI. At least with my water parameters, the fluctuations were killing my shrimp. I would recommend PPS/PPS Pro to avoid constant fluctuations. Ever since I went PPS, I haven't lost a single shrimp. Just my own experience.


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

I am using the PPS-Pro model for dosing.


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## DJKronik57 (Apr 17, 2006)

I actually *have had problems* with CSM+B and cherry shrimp. I had them in a 10g and they were doing fine until I switched from Flourish to CSM+B. I slowly noticed they were out and about less and less until I saw maybe 1 or 2 out at any given time. Then one day I saw one out on the substrate twitching. It was lying motionless with its legs twitching and spasming. I knew there was something wrong immediately and upon further searching found bodies everywhere in the plants and underneath the hardscape. I initially blamed it on a water change and Flourish Excel dosage I had just done, but it was too late, all of my cherries had died. Then I thought maybe it was the dechlorinator not working correctly. Finally I found somewhere that someone had problems with CSM+B and cherry shrimp, causing the exact same "hiding" behavior and eventual death in spasms. So I decided to give it a try and bought more and added _everything_ I was adding before, minus the CSM+B. Low and behold, they have flourished and I have upwards of 30 in the tank to this day.

Whether or not this had something to do with my water chemistry and how it affected the CSM+B may be an issue, but regardless, CSM+B has caused problems for me. Flourish did not.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

DJKronik57 said:


> I actually *have had problems* with CSM+B and cherry shrimp. I had them in a 10g and they were doing fine until I switched from Flourish to CSM+B. I slowly noticed they were out and about less and less until I saw maybe 1 or 2 out at any given time. Then one day I saw one out on the substrate twitching. It was lying motionless with its legs twitching and spasming. I knew there was something wrong immediately and upon further searching found bodies everywhere in the plants and underneath the hardscape. I initially blamed it on a water change and Flourish Excel dosage I had just done, but it was too late, all of my cherries had died. Then I thought maybe it was the dechlorinator not working correctly. Finally I found somewhere that someone had problems with CSM+B and cherry shrimp, causing the exact same "hiding" behavior and eventual death in spasms. So I decided to give it a try and bought more and added _everything_ I was adding before, minus the CSM+B. Low and behold, they have flourished and I have upwards of 30 in the tank to this day.
> 
> Whether or not this had something to do with my water chemistry and how it affected the CSM+B may be an issue, but regardless, CSM+B has caused problems for me. Flourish did not.


You forgot the most important information: How much did you dose?


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## DJKronik57 (Apr 17, 2006)

I don't exactly remember where I got the initial amounts to dose, but it was somewhere on this board discussing the appropriate dosing of CSM+B for EI. However I dosed less as it was a medium light tank with DIY CO2, about the equivalent to 1/16 of a teaspoon once or twice a week followed by 50% water changes.

Oddly enough, it did not seem to kill or affect Amano shrimp, even at higher dosages.


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## snickle (Apr 8, 2007)

Dosing twice a week with 1/16 of a teaspon (about .25grams) is roughly the same amount of trace as you would get dosing with PPS-Pro (If I did my math right), but you are doing it in two doses versus 7 with PPS-Pro, so you see see bigger spikes in the micro nutrient levels.

Not sure if that was an issue or not.


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

So i'm still undecided. I think I'll be funding pedros vacation fund, and also ordering cherries for my 10G the only thing is, i swear i'll be doing a very deep and intense gravel vac prior to them showing up. I dont want any planeria this time.

I just cant decide if i want them in my 55, i mean i do obviously, they'd thrive on my hair algae, but I dose CSM+B in the PPS pro model.


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## Burks (May 25, 2006)

I had breeding age RCS for nearly three months and none had eggs while using CSM+B. A couple weeks after stopping CSM+B, I had a couple females with eggs.

Coincidence? You decide. I've never used it again in any tanks with shrimp.


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