# List of suitable soil and substrate for El-Natural tanks



## PlantsAndMe (Apr 3, 2005)

Alright folks, I would like to make a thread where people can post their type of soil or substrate that they use in their planted tank. You have to post the brand name, what the product is called, and an estimated price that you bought it for. That may sound a bit much but it'll help beginners like me to know which soil to buy and which not to buy


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## Happy Camper (Jul 22, 2004)

Soil out of your back yard is free


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

The absolute cheapest soil that the store carries. The cheaper it is, the less likely there will be added chemicals such as fertilizers that will be harmful to fish. Or if you don't fertilize your yard it's free there as Happy already pointed out.


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

I've had good luck with the cheapo Home Depot topsoil. It's called EarthGro here (Oklahoma). In texas it's called Natural Earth, but it also was instantly cycled. The cheap topsoil from Lowes gave me problems. It took about a month for my 125 to get habitable and it bubbled gasses out of the substrate profusely for quite a while.


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## javalee (May 8, 2006)

I'd like to add one about choosing potting soils: many of these brand and generic soils components vary by region. So just because a specific soil worked well for a person in one area of the country doesn't mean it will be the same in others.

Note on the ingredients list that many say "regionally formulated from one or more of the following ingredients:" This means that the bag of soil in your hands doesn't necessarily contain all ingredients listed there, or even the same ones someone else used successfully somewhere else. Often the list includes wood chips, peat, bark, etc. However, in my part of the country, every single bag of soil I've tried (and I've bought brands that worked well for people in other areas) has pine bark mixed in it, and usually a good bit of it.

I mention this because I found that high pine bark content (or wood chips) is not a good thing, and with decomposition, resulted in a strong alcohol odor coming from the tank---methanol, terpenes? who knows, but it was definitely affecting my fish's health. DaveP had the same problems with wood chips or bark in his potting soil.

I am now using soil from our land with good results so far. Just be aware of regional variations in the components of potting soil brands.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

I agree with PlantsAndMe. This would be very helpful. Maybe someone from the Substrate Forum could contribute along with others. Some of us need simple, but if you say free dirt from your back yard - do you mean just any dirt or do you mean compost for the vegetable garden?


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## JArtiles305 (Apr 13, 2006)

Can't you just go to your local forest where there is enough decomposing matter in the dirt to know it's rich in nutrients. You can bring a shovel, take off the top decomposing matter, and just get shovel fulls of dirt into bags to take home.

Or am I getting something wrong.


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## heidisue (May 3, 2006)

giggling over here in New York City about how to get to my "local forest....."


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## PlantsAndMe (Apr 3, 2005)

I wish I can do that in my house....

Me: Hey mom, I'm going to borrow the shovel a bit alright?
Mom: What do you need the shovel for?
Me: Ah just some dirt and decomposed materials
Mom: WHAT?!


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## JArtiles305 (Apr 13, 2006)

JArtiles305 said:


> Can't you just go to your local forest where there is enough decomposing matter in the dirt to know it's rich in nutrients. You can bring a shovel, take off the top decomposing matter, and just get shovel fulls of dirt into bags to take home.
> 
> Or am I getting something wrong.


But could this be done? Can I for example start another tank and just use soil from my local forest (South Florida) and expect results?


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## 247Plants (Mar 23, 2006)

I would think in south Florida there are tons of wetlands that you could probably get good substrate from......only a guess tho.....


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## JArtiles305 (Apr 13, 2006)

Also has anyone every used substrate from a local pond? Instant cycle?

Or does this not work due to the threat of introducing something dangerous to the tank?


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## javalee (May 8, 2006)

An important part of choosing any soil is doing a "soil test" since there multiple potential problems that could arise: high nitrites, excess iron, tannins, clouding of the water, etc.

Diana recommends putting whatever soil you choose into a jar or bottle and setting it up as you would your tank---an inch or so of soil covered with and inch or so of gravel plus water. Allow it to sit for several weeks and in the meantime you can test it for excess ammonia, nitrate, and watch for leaching of tannins, iron, clouding of the water, etc.

One bottle test I did turned the roots of a lucky bamboo black--bad stuff! Another soil leached tannins into the water. It's nice to know these things BEFORE you go to the trouble of setting up a tank.

JArtiles, I would personally stay away from soil or silt coming from an area with native fishes or whatever, just because I would worry about transferring disease or parasites. Native fish and tropical aquarium fish aren't used to each other's diseases and parasites. While native fish may be able to live with their infections and local parasites, introducing them to tropical fish that have never had exposure to them could be potentially devastating. That said, some may find me paranoid. You could try it, and you may be fine. Others here may have even tried this before. Miss Fishy and Justin come to mind, but I'm not sure. Maybe they could help you out on this topic.


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## Miss Fishy (May 13, 2006)

I've never tried collecting soil or silt from a lake or pond. Interesting idea. Most of the water nearby (I live in the inner city) is not very clean, and I would imagine the soil on the bottom would be pretty polluted too so I don't fancy scooping some out and putting it in a tank in the house! The smell! I have collected plants and small creatures from local waters, and so far I haven't introduced anything deadly into my tanks and ponds, but then again, all my fish are coldwater species, and the ones that are not natives are species that do very well as feral fish hereabouts. 

From Alex.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Hi Folks,

Before you buckle up in waders and head out to the nearest pond with a bucket and shovel....here's my one dismal experience.

I once set up tanks with native plants and soil collected from natural swamp-like pond. Plant growth was awful, and I tore tank down after a few months.

I don't think there's a perfect soil for aquariums. A rich organic soil might be perfect for a sunlit tank with plentiful, fast-growing plants. The same soil under lower lighting and/or sparse planting might be a disaster. Then there's the issue of soil depth and what it's covered with.

You can't just add the "perfect soil" and automatically get a perfect planted tank. A rich soil may encourage algae in the beginning, but after it settles down, it may be just perfect for the long run. I set up my 45 gal 5 years ago with an inexpensive, general houseplant potting mix. It gave me some algae problems for a year, but it is my favorite plant tank now. I never thought I would get Cryptcoryne blassi to grow and divide like it does in this tank.

Aquariums are dynamic ecosystems.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

*Perfect Soil*

I don't think there's a perfect soil for aquariums.

You can't just add the "perfect soil" and automatically get a perfect planted tank.

Oh.

 ](*,) :help: :grouphug: :noidea: :hail: :fish2: :frusty:

:crybaby: :jaw: rogar-Si out:  :faint:  :fear:

:sad: :yell: :crybaby: :lalala: :grouphug: [-( :-x :tape2: :bolt: :boom:

:rant: :shock:

You don't REALLY mean that do you? 
It's Sunday. Someone forgot to make coffee? Or there is none left in the house, right? 
I can understand that.

But you CAN'T really mean that. Because that would mean that MIRACLE GROW won, and organic gardening for fish tanks lost, or died.

I WON'T bury my Aquarium in a pit in my backyard in frustration. I must have missed something.

What is leonardite? Where can I purchase this?

Thank Goodness for smilies. I hope for hope. (smile)  
:ranger:


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

You've given me a good laugh. Thanks!!


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

*Laughter*

Any day that a (maybe not so smart) man 
can make a smart woman with a beautiful tank / aquarium have a good laugh; is a *good *day.

:yo:

What do you mean that we (men) can't just go to the store, buy it, take it out of the box, follow the directions; and have it do *exactly *what we want it to do?

Dynamic Eco-System. Sounds complicated.

That is why we have Seachem.

Maybe men are more - demanding and women are more - nurturing.

That would make a great poll! Sexist question. Possible truth. 
One of the women on this site had a great theory along this line. 
It was a great post!


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

*scratching head* ...... Huh?

Eh..... Jimbo? *ahem* Excuse me, but there is a major flaw with your procedural listing of what men would LIKE to be able to do with the above mentioned tank setup. You mention "Follow the Directions". Um...... I'm deeply confused by this step in your description. Do men in YOUR neck of the woods actually DO This? *shock*. Wow. If one of these guys is ever in the Boston area, please let me know - I'd like to meet him! And I promise not to tell the media. 

*GRIN*
-Jane


ps - "tongue in cheek", folks -


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Honest to God, Jane if you told me to go to the store and get ABC DIRT from Wal*Mart, Hewitt's or Home Depot and put in underneath my SoilMaster Select Red. *That is EXACTLY WHAT I WOULD DO!!!*
I personally myself do not believe in reinventing the wheel. If something works, that is what I want to do! I like reliable and predictable. 
The next step of course would be to find out the fish and the plant for a <1 gallon Betta Bowl/Nano/Vase that would work best near natural sunlight. 
I like my plant (Possibly Rotala Rotundifloria Green) with the runners but for a TINY TANK don't see the point of runners - where is it going to go?

So yeah, the answer is???????????????????????????? I have only been scouring this website for 5-7 hours today looking for the answer to this.

And yeah, by the book. (Or at least try).
Buying a Computer for Dummies - GREAT BOOK!!
Excel for Dummies- Bought too long ago to remember.
Organic Gardening for Dummies - GREAT BOOK!!
Square Foot Gardening Book - Original - GREAT BOOK!!
NEW SIMPLER Square Foot Gardening Book - SIMPLER ALSO GREAT BOOK!!
Home Depot Book - Orange - Home Improvement Stuff - GREAT BOOK!!
Barron's Book on Aquatic Plants - Currently being re-evaluated for Usefulness
Holy Bible - GREAT BOOK!!!!

You should have seen the horrified look on my face the first time my wife suggested that I throw out some of my school books! (that I had not read or used in the last 20 or so years)
I finally offered her (with sarcasm in my voice and on my face) - "Why throw them out? We could burn them!" I just could not imagine throwing out a good book!!!!!!

Yeah, this man tries to follow the directions for life. May not always succeed, but try as best I can. I try to understand people that do not follow directions, read books, or like to reinvent the wheel. I doesn't mean they are wrong. Just means there is another point of view to life. I am a book person. My oldest son is not. That is okay. I just prefer knowing the answer to looking for the answer for 5-7 hours on a website. And I am NOT going to ask my Local Fish Stores. You should have the seen/ heard the expression on the guys face at Lesco when I told him what I was buying the SoilMaster Select Red for. I learned something about baseball. And he learned something about 'Fish Tanks'. I remember the looks we used to give my Dad the High School Biology teacher about some of the stuff he did. He knew what he was doing. We just didn't.

So Jane, if you tell me the answer and I end up having another baby girl.... I'll name her after you and my cousin.... How about it? What is it?


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## apogenaton (May 30, 2005)

I doubt use soil of my yard.
because it isn't sterilized, is possible introduce diseases to your tank.
I had been using soil of the branch happy flower, for African violets
2 usd. each bag 1kg.


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

LOL.........LOL......LOL!

Good for you Jim! I can't tell you how many times my boyfriend has complained about something, only to have me ask "Did it come with instructions? And did you read them?" followed by a very reluctant "no" mumbled at me. Later, I'll "take a look", read the instructions, and "WE" will figure it out. Its become a kind of running joke. I too am an Instruction-Reader!

Anyhow, research, read, and research some more! Seriously, the soils WILL vary according to the season, and the location they were bagged (for national brands). Your best bet IS a bottle test. 

African Violet soils would probably work well because they tend to be rather low in organics, or higher in intert materials, so that they drain well. 

I've had very good luck with the following brands. My disclaimer is that this is NOT a guarantee, as specific ingredients CAN and WILL vary!

I've used Jolly Gardener brand organic Potting Soil and Garden Basics general purpose Potting Soil. The latter was from Walmart, and I can't remember where the Jolly Gardener was from. A second bag of Garden Basics brand that I got (used it up potting up some houseplants) was a bit sandier than the first. The Jolly Gardener had a lot of larger twigs in it, which I culled out, as decomposing wood chunks (or bark, for that matter) causes odd things like alcohol by-products and excessive bubbling.

My best advice is to go ahead and TRY setting up a soil underlayer in a small tank. Monitor the water quality and fish behavior. You'll observe it going through its "settling in" period, and get to fiddle around with it, and most importantly, gain confidence. I did a 10 gallon "test" tank nearly a year ago, and since then I've set up another 10 and a 15 with soil underlayers. This weekend I'm changing over my 20 H, too! The oldest "established" soil underlayer tank is now my favorite tank. 

-Jane


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Jane, I will take a guess that your boyfriend is an excellent mechanic, handy man or great tinkerer. 
I have learned to know my limits. But I am not entirely narrow minded. 

Experiment here we come! 

My Square Foot Gardening, Organic Gardening Tomatoes, compost, 
Mel Bartholomew PERFECT SOIL (1/3 peat moss, 1/3 compost, 1/3 vermiculite) and Miracle Grow Potting Soil and Cheapo Wal*Mart Topsoil will all be tested underneath my SoilMaster Select Red. 
Now I have to purchase the 3rd vase/Betta Bowl/Nano for the test. 

I will test my 1/2 quart Betta Bowls with my Rotala Rotundifloria Green which seems to grow VERY FAST with my Seachem Daily Dosage Schedule and see what happens. 

Jane, if I end up trying this in a 10 gallon tank eventually; I will try an EMERGENT plant (Tomato Plant) to test Diana's theories further. 

If everything is successful at point, you will have a sweet shipment (tomato) delivered to you. 

Thank you for your patience and persistance. 

Okay, taking the plunge.......... DIRT INTO TANK............

(It's a plot - you all are really just trying to turn us all into biologists or natural chemists...)


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

Tomato roots may need more O2 than they'd get submerged. a peace lilly might work better if you want emergent.


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

Jimbo205 said:


> Maybe men are more - demanding and women are more - nurturing.
> 
> That would make a great poll! Sexist question. Possible truth.
> One of the women on this site had a great theory along this line.
> It was a great post!


You're right, it IS sexist AND quite offensive. Possible truth? Ha, that's the dumbest thing I've read today! It's about as ignorant as saying we latinos all steal cars, or all black people can dance, or all white people are racist. See the problem with the world is that people make assumptions about human behavior based on a close-minded stereotypes. Some latinos do steal cars, some of us don't. Some black people can dance and some don't have an ounce of rythm. Some white people belong to the KKK and others don't. My mother, a judge, is extraordinarily demanding whereas my father, a psychiatrist, is one of the most nurturing people I've ever met. So your comment on the possible truth of men being demanding and women being nurturing is exactly what you said: Sexist. And offensive to boot. When people make ignorant comments like that it only serves to furthur those stereotypes; imagine how much better the world would be if we avoided such comments (whether said by men or women, in truthfulness or in jest).

Now, back to the topic of the thread.... When picking soil, I think it's also important to remember to keep away from soils that contain manure. The soil I used in my first NPT had manure and I had high nitrites for weeks.

-ricardo


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Jimbo205 said:


> My Square Foot Gardening, Organic Gardening Tomatoes, compost,
> Mel Bartholomew PERFECT SOIL (1/3 peat moss, 1/3 compost, 1/3 vermiculite) and Miracle Grow Potting Soil and Cheapo Wal*Mart Topsoil will all be tested underneath my SoilMaster Select Red.
> Now I have to purchase the 3rd vase/Betta Bowl/Nano for the test.
> 
> ...


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

For a "bottle test", I just use/recycle a 1-liter or 2-liter seltzer water bottle, with the top part (narrow) cut off to make a cylinder shape that I can get my hand into. cheap, cheap, cheap!

And the focus of a low-tech approach is LOW tech - no need to be dosing fertilizers as the soil and eventually the mulm will supply the nutrients. 

The lower the organics in the soil, the less turbulant the breaking in period will be. 

Oh, and I remembered where the "Jolly Gardener" came from - Agway. 

As an emergent plant, I'd go for an aquatic plant that can grow OUT of the water, rather than a terrestrial. Tomatoes would not be a great choice (It would drown), but a hygrophila would, or an echinodorus, or bacopa, or even water sprite, planted in the aquarium substrate but allowed to grow without a tank cover, will come up out of the water. 

Start simple! Let it do its thing! This may require some Sit-On-Your-Hands work, to keep from "doing" too much, LOL!

Oh, and I read the Square Foot Gardening site - *sorry, tie-in from another thread where this was mentioned* - it was very interesting! More on the "big Boat" thread........ 

And remember to keep the layers thin - 1", no more than 1.5"!!! In this case, more is NOT better! 

-Jane


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