# forms of wendtii and water parameters



## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

Dear all, on various websites I find general information on requirements of the species C. wendtii, but im my aquarium I notice that one variety grows much better than another. So I suspect that the exact requirements differ between varieties (or one outcompetes the other because it is better at taking up nutrients from the water). Is anything known about differences in requirements between the wendtii-varieties?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi illustrator,

I'm not sure if there is a "difference" in the requirements of the species. In my aquarium the same species will grow differently in different areas of the tank just because of where they are located in relationship to the light.


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## Chuukus (Sep 24, 2009)

I have noticed the same thing in my tanks. In my tanks the plants seem to like shaded corners where fish food and waste build up. 

Does anyone know how many varieties of C. wendtii there is? I read somewhere that there are over 50 var. of C. wendtii. 

Illustrator sorry for hijacking your thread.


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## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

I don't know how many there are, I guess one or more for each stream within the natural distribution of wendtii + some man-made crosses? In the regular aquarium trade here in Europe there are maybe 10 and perhaps some more (unrecognised ones) in hobbyists' circles. How many the crypt specialists have is another question, probably more ...


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## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

mmm, no further replies. Maybe I should re-phrase my question: 

wendtii "Lucanas red" is doing great, as is a "lost-name" red-green one (also a large form). "Tropica" is hanging on but not doing well. Which forms could do well under the same circumstances? The choise is (at least) "Green" "Red" "Brown" and "Mi Oya".


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## FarCanal (Mar 12, 2008)

You want us to predict what a crypt will do????

I have wendtii varieties from 8 sources with what I think are 6 different types. In a year/season a few will grow with stellar results while some not as good. The following year the results are different in the similar conditions. Who knows? If I knew the answer all my crypts would be growing and flowering like mad all the time.


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## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

I am aware that growing plants is always a bit of a try and error, that's part of the fun. But what i want to ask: which wendtii forms were/are doing OK in the same aquarium at the same time, so under exactly the same conditions? If there are two or 3 that do consistently better under the same conditions, this can give a valuable clue to their requirements ... Or am i really so far off ???


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## Kai Witte (Jan 30, 2006)

Hello Paul,

I don't have the experience in comparing submersed growth you're looking for but I hazard the guess that most C. wendtii grow reasonably easy enough for many hobbyists so that many don't experiment extensively and just settle for a variety which happens to grow well under their conditions... 

I know that a few wendtii from known localities grow better in soft water while others readily settle in harder tapwater. So, what you're experiencing might have a similar reason. At least for 'Mi Oya' (cultivar named after the locality) you could search for water parameters...

Of course, there may be also other factors involved.


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## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

So it stays a bit try-and-error. Thanks for the reply.


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## JeffyFunk (Apr 6, 2006)

illustrator said:


> I am aware that growing plants is always a bit of a try and error, that's part of the fun. But what i want to ask: which wendtii forms were/are doing OK in the same aquarium at the same time, so under exactly the same conditions? If there are two or 3 that do consistently better under the same conditions, this can give a valuable clue to their requirements ... Or am i really so far off ???


Personally, I think you're really far off. First of all, several people have commented that the same C. wendtii will grow differently in their tank depending on where they located. That suggests to me that C. wendtii, although easy to grow in my experience, will still grow differently depending on very specific tank conditions such as light availability, substrate and plant competition. To then ask for an experiment where all of the variables are eliminated except for variety or cultivar seems like a lot to ask for.

That said, I do believe that there is some truth to the idea that different varieties will grow differently. I think it's fair to say that the different C. wendtii varieties were not selected and propagated solely on their growth rate and overall vigor. Keeping that in mind, I would expect that some of the more colorful varieties, such as 'Mi Oya' and 'Tropica', would not grow as well as, say, 'Green' or 'Red'. (In other words, it has nothing to do w/ the particular C. wendtii's "requirements". Instead, a particular C. wendtii is just not as vigorous as some of the other C. wendtii varieties)

Finally, I must ask the following question to you: What are the growing conditions like for your C. wendtii varieties? I find that most crypts, including C. wendtii, do really well in my soil or mineralized soil based substrates, usually resulting in some gigantic crypt monster that (unfortunately) have to be taken out later simply because they grow too big (I once had C. wendtii 'green' and C. lutea take over a 29 gallon tank (18'' tall) - the leaves of both were only an inch or two from the top of the aquarium). I'm just wondering if you could improve the growth of all of your C. wendtii varieties simply by making a change in your aquarium setup. Diana Walstad reports that Crypts grow really well in pots w/ a soil substrate.


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## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

iOK, 

. I grow the plants submersed as aquarium plants (and experiment with semi-emersed, but that is still so experimental that it is not part of my question). 

. dimensions of the aquarium 120 x 40 x 50 cm.

. water is the local spring water, which has a pH 7-8 and kH 12

. despite heavy feeding (fish), nitrate and nitrite are not measurable with the standard test sets

. there is no heater in the aquarium but the temperature is quite stable 23-25'C

. I exchange up to 1/2 of the water, about twice a month

. the aquarium houses a breeding group of Ameca splendens, which are fish with a high feed consumption. I feed granulate daily, filamentuous algae 1-2 times weekly.

. The substrate is gravel and sand, in the past I added clay/fertilizer pellets (JBL), but I had problems obtaining these for a while. Now I can get them again. 

. for a long time I added Sera Florena (fertilizer) to the water, but i had the feeling that my plants were still lacking nutrients. After a dissussion on this forum and some internet searching, I switched to fluid fertilizer from Tropica. I use this for a too short time to know if this works better. 

. light is provided by two TL tubes, 40 W, Life-Glo (plan to replace these soon for new ones) 

. In the aquarium is a variety of Cryptocoryne, all together about 15 species and varieties. No other plants are present. 

. "Tropica" is not just growing slowly, new leaves are consistently smaller than former ones. I think that this is an indication that circumstances are suboptimal. x. willisii and parva are almost gone (rhizomes with some poor tiny leaves and roots still present) and beckettii and walkerii are also not doing well. 

. On the other hand, affinis, wendtii "Lucanas Red", balansae, ciliata, and spiralis are doing great. 

. An unidentified wendtii variety develops very pale brown leaves, i think that this one could be darker and larger growing, but it is gradually multiplying (this one is from a thermal spring in Austria, where it was introduced by aquarists, probably several decades ago). 

. pontederiifolia is a recent addition and I can't tell yet if it will manage. 

. There are still more hanging in plastic strip a few cm under the water surface, as "experimental semi-emersed".


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## JeffyFunk (Apr 6, 2006)

illustrator said:


> . The substrate is gravel and sand, in the past I added clay/fertilizer pellets (JBL), but I had problems obtaining these for a while. Now I can get them again.


To me, this looks like the problem; Crypts are heavy root feeders (so are Echinodorus). Why don't you try potting one of your crypts up in a soil substrate and see if it does any better? The 'Tropica' one would be a good one to try. (A healthy crypt in a pot is much more attractive than an unhealthy crypt in any "aquascape") Any shallow container will do really, so it doesn't have to be a terra cotta pot. Put 1-1.5'' soil in it, plant the crypt in (I'd cut the roots to about 2'' or so before potting it up) so that that top of the crown is about an inch above the soil. Then, take your gravel and cover the soil layer w/ about an inch of material so the crown is now level w/ the gravel. Then, slowly sink your potted crypt back into your aquarium, making sure none of the soil is loose on the top, making the aquarium "muddy". If your crypt is indeed "starving", then you should see an improvement in 1-2 weeks. (BTW, when your looking for soil, use "Topsoil", not "Potting Soil" - the cheaper, the better - or use something from your flower or vegetable garden. See the El Natural Section for more information on how to use soil in a planted aquarium).


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## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

I replanted wakeri, together with loam/fertilizer (the 7 balls from JBL). In the 4-5 months that i have this species, it hardly grew new roots. I strongly suspect that my water values are just not good enough an the pH is too high. Will see if it reacts to the treatment and if not, I'll replace it with another species.


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