# [Wet Thumb Forum]-NO3 concentration



## Guest (May 26, 2003)

I am a bit puzzled by NO3 concentration and use of Chucks calculator.

Few years back I ordered KNO3 from hydroponics.com and reconstituted KNO3 compound w/ distilled water to get .5ppm/1ml concentration.

Recently, I got some more KNO3 from James Hoftiezer (his source unknown) and I did 1ppm/1ml concentration.

In both situations I had the same problem after addition of prepared solution.

[*]My 55G w/ 220Watts (AHS) very heavy planted

I was adding previously KNO3 2-3 times weekly just enough to have NO3 around ~7ppm for 2 days and then have another addition of 7ppm. By friday my NO3 levels were ~0ppm.

When using James's KNO3:

My initial plan was to use ~5ppm/5ml 2-3 times weekly since plants were consuming so much NO3. I did the following last week, came home home on friday just to find my NO3 out of control. 
My LaMotte test kit was always reading proper levels and this time solution in the tube was so red, which actually looked black.

As with Hydroponics solution I'm going to have to cut solution down at least in two to get proper levels for my tank.

I have no clue why is this happening. I'm wondering about other additives which I followed Chuck's calculator.

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[This message was edited by Jay Luto on Mon May 26 2003 at 12:28 PM.]


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## Guest (May 26, 2003)

I am a bit puzzled by NO3 concentration and use of Chucks calculator.

Few years back I ordered KNO3 from hydroponics.com and reconstituted KNO3 compound w/ distilled water to get .5ppm/1ml concentration.

Recently, I got some more KNO3 from James Hoftiezer (his source unknown) and I did 1ppm/1ml concentration.

In both situations I had the same problem after addition of prepared solution.

[*]My 55G w/ 220Watts (AHS) very heavy planted

I was adding previously KNO3 2-3 times weekly just enough to have NO3 around ~7ppm for 2 days and then have another addition of 7ppm. By friday my NO3 levels were ~0ppm.

When using James's KNO3:

My initial plan was to use ~5ppm/5ml 2-3 times weekly since plants were consuming so much NO3. I did the following last week, came home home on friday just to find my NO3 out of control. 
My LaMotte test kit was always reading proper levels and this time solution in the tube was so red, which actually looked black.

As with Hydroponics solution I'm going to have to cut solution down at least in two to get proper levels for my tank.

I have no clue why is this happening. I'm wondering about other additives which I followed Chuck's calculator.

Join as at www.njas.net









[This message was edited by Jay Luto on Mon May 26 2003 at 12:28 PM.]


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## Moe (Feb 1, 2003)

I dose everything dry except for trace. Its much easier









Moe


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## Steve Hampton (Feb 13, 2004)

Are you sure the batch was potassium nitrate? Could it be sodium nitrate instead? Sodium nitrate has a higher nitrate ratio when compared to the nitrate in potassium nitrate. Although it wouldn't account for the amount of difference you are describing. Very odd indeed. I've never had any problems using Chuck's calculator, although I've been dosing dry KNO3 and K+ dry for quite a while.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

My NO3 was 0 for a few days before I got the KNO3 in liquid form, and I had the same experiance as you. For the first few days I seemed to be adding a small amount and the levels went SKY high. I stopped dosing and within two days the levels were back to zero. Since then I have maintained 5ppmish with the same dose. Seems the plants just needed a couple days to get the hang of what was going on.


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Jay,

It would be hard to blame Chuck's calculator for any kind of really large error. Too many people are using it successfully.

So how high did the nitrate go? Can you back calculate how much KNO3 would be added to get that much nitrate? Is adding that much nitrate even feasible?

Roger Miller


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## Guest (May 26, 2003)

Steve,

Its definitely not Sodium Nitrate.

First NO3 batch was purchased from hydroponics.com and second from James H. who is using it sucessfully.

My first solution, which was .5ppm/ml, I was adding ~3ml x 2 per week and this was just enough to get it around ~10ppm.

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## Guest (May 26, 2003)

And are you doing those 50% weekly water changes? 
Don't guess. Just DO IT!

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Guest (May 26, 2003)

Guys,

This tank has been setup and happy for few years now and addition of initial KNO3 supplement was altered to keep "proper levels" ~10ppm.

Water changes are not even the question here. Tank was running on proper KNO3 consumption for very long time and this "NO3 blow up" happened when new batch of James H. compound was mixed. Reason why I'm not blaming James's product is that same thing happened with Hydroponic product.

I don't even know the amount of NO3 at that moment b/c I keep my AP NO3 high range tester in my other house w/ african cichlid tank. In planted tank, I have been using LaMotte test kit which reads from 0-10 (NO3-N) -> 0-44 (NO3) and color on the test tube wasn't even close to 10 (NO3-N). It was so red -> almost black.

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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

It's almost starting to sound like a systemic math error. Checking with Chuck's calculator to get a solution that would add 1 ppm for one ml in a 55 gallon tank you would need to add 10 tablespoons in 500 ml of water. That's a pretty strong solution and I don't even know if you can make it that strong.



> quote:
> 
> My first solution, which was .5ppm/ml, I was adding ~3ml x 2 per week and this was just enough to get it around ~10ppm.


 This statement makes it sound more and more like a math error. If you had a .5ppm/ml solution and were adding 6 ml per week you should have levels of 3 ppm in the tank at the end of the week, but only if NO nitrates are being used and no water changes are done.

What's the fish load in this tank? What's the nitrate level of you tap water?

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## Guest (May 27, 2003)

I'm not using 55G as starting base. I have lots of substrate so I do calculations for 50G volume --> this shouldn't make big of a difference between 50 vs. 55G anyway.

To get ~1ppm of NO3 I'm using 8 TBS in 450ml of distilled water. It took me about 15 seconds to visually reconstitute KNO3. I'm not positive how far I can go to reach KNO3 vs. H20 equlibrium but visually it looked fine.



> quote:
> 
> If you had a .5ppm/ml solution and were adding 6 ml per week you should have levels of 3 ppm in the tank at the end of the week, but only if NO nitrates are being used and no water changes are done.


After addition of KNO3 I wait a bit and test for NO3. Previous addition was just enough to raise my NO3 to about ~10ppm. Those levels are usually gone in matter of 2-3 and then additional KNO3 is supplied. There is minimum of NO3 at the end of the week b/c tank is just sucking it up.

[*]Fish load is medium and feedings are very light. 
[*]Tap water NO3 levels are minimal.

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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

P.S> My source was www.ecogrow.com It was cheaper by the 5lb and decided to share.

*James Hoftiezer

Tank Journal - Aquascape ( Latest / Archive )
Tank Journal - Parts and Construction ( Latest / Archive )*


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## Guest (May 28, 2003)

Jay,
Does the density appear to be a factor?
Eg. if the grains are smaller etc the weight of a 1/4 teaspoon might be as much as a gram different per 1/4 teaspoon vs say the Grant's/Cooke's brand. 
I had a discussion about the different types of KNO3 awhile back and we attributed the high levels of NO3 due to this weight difference in the same volumes.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Guest (May 28, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Van grow:
> Jay,
> ...


Tom,

I used regular tablespoon to make the solution. Spoon with compound was flat, there was no extra "visually". KNO3 is just a regular "a bit larger" then powder.

The bottom line is that I don't have any problems with my NO3. Everything is growing like weeds and I'm not complaining. Definitely not saying that Chuck's calculator is wrong.

Just pure interest.









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## Sir Plants-a-lot (Feb 16, 2003)

Hi Jay,

I'm wondering if it's an interference problem with the test. 

First, it's hard to imagine that your math could be so far off that your NO3 concentration has doubled or more (and it sounds like you haven't changed your recipe).
Second, the only thing you changed is the source of KNO3. I can understand a slight change in density, but only slight.
And third your tank is still fine.

It makes me think that the test results are wrong and that a contaminant in the KNO3 is causing high readings. Apparently the presence of chloride will do this, but I don't know how much it takes. Maybe the KNO3 has a bit of Cl as well? Or it might be something else.

Just a thought.

Regards,
Kevin


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Have you considered your test kit may be garbage. Not sure why it might be screwed, but it might be. A person I do some work for, who has a setup probably 10x more expensive then ours put together, has experienced issues revolving around NO3 test kits. Basically I told him to do a NO3 test, to plan a maitnence, and on his Hagen test kit NO3 was past 100 ppm. The tanks inhabitants were fine, and his tank is algae free, so I thought sudden spike due to bacterial problems resulting from a 6hour power loss. Naturally I rushed over there to do a water change, before anything died, and after changing around 300g (40%) of water, I tested the NO3 again, 3 tests, and got no change. Perplexed, I went down to a LFS had them test the NO3. They got around 5ppm on an AP test kit. So then I went home got my Red Sea and tested 5 times, got 3 everytime. Went to discuss this with the local Hagen rep, he gave us a new kit, and again the 100ppm came up! So I told him to keep his crap. LaMotte should be good, but stranger things have happened.


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