# Surface scum is really bugging me!



## Jlanders001 (Mar 31, 2009)

How do you guys deal with surface scum if you do not have an overflow or one of the surface extractor tubes that you hook up to a power filter?

I have so much scum that I could clean the surface (by using containers and basically dipping it out or I turn one of my pythons upside down and let the scum fall into the gravel tube) every day! It comes back every 24 hrs. This tank, a 180, has not been set up long, but even my other small planted tanks have had this problem also for years. It is just not so much of a pain dealing with a 10 or 20 gallon vs. a 180 gallon tank!

Thanks in advance!

JTL


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

I had this problem. Got one of these:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12703

Problem gone in about 5 minutes. Crystal clear ever since.


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## rodrigaj (Aug 17, 2008)

Increase water circulation. Feed less (I feed my fish fruit flys). 50% water change once a week.

Skimmers never work for me because plant debris kept clogging it.


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## Jlanders001 (Mar 31, 2009)

Rich185, those are what I meant by "surface extractor tubes that you hook up to a power filter". I can't use one of these due to my filter configuration.

I do water changes & there is plenty of circulation. I have a powerful circulation powerhead slightly pionted at the surface. It is at one end like all my equipment since this tank is a room divider.

Any other ideas or am I just stuck with getting it out with a python?


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

Jlanders001 said:


> Rich185, those are what I meant by "surface extractor tubes that you hook up to a power filter". I can't use one of these due to my filter configuration.
> 
> I do water changes & there is plenty of circulation. I have a powerful circulation powerhead slightly pionted at the surface. It is at one end like all my equipment since this tank is a room divider.
> 
> Any other ideas or am I just stuck with getting it out with a python?


Some people recommend black mollies that supposedly eat the stuff. I had no luck with them, nor with more surface movement or circulation or with feeding less. Nothing worked for me and I change the water 50% each weekend too. Maybe get a small, cheap used canister filter and hook it up just for this. They work great. And leaves, yes, some but once a week at water change time I clean the top plastic piece of any small debris that's gather there, never enough in a week to clog at least in my situation.

One other option, a HOB filter that has one of these surface skimmers attached:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579+3608+16729&pcatid=16729


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## Jlanders001 (Mar 31, 2009)

Yeah, I may install a small canister filter, but I was trying to avoid yet another plug. I already have three power strips almost full on this tank so far.

JTL


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

Jlanders001 said:


> Yeah, I may install a small canister filter, but I was trying to avoid yet another plug. I already have three power strips almost full on this tank so far.
> 
> JTL


Or replace a filter with the HOB option I linked to. They are not too expensive.


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## Jlanders001 (Mar 31, 2009)

My tank is from glasscages.com and has 3 inch horizontal bracing all around the very top of it. I think is was a special order that way. I bought it new, but from another guy that bought it form GC. So I can't use regular HOBs. I've had to modify or build my own "U tubes" to clear the bracing for my main canister.

I might be able to modify the uptake tube to hook the skimmer tube to it. I already have two of them so I do know they work well.


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## ddavila06 (Jan 31, 2009)

you should get a canister filter and get it over with, they work better than the HOB filters anyways. i have two fluvals 405 and two weeks ago i was asking for help about the sam issue to the guys in GWAPA. solution: get a surface skimmer and hook it up to the filter intake. i swear about 5-10 mins after i put it in the surface was crystal clear!


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

Jlanders001 said:


> My tank is from glasscages.com and has 3 inch horizontal bracing all around the very top of it. I think is was a special order that way. I bought it new, but from another guy that bought it form GC. So I can't use regular HOBs. I've had to modify or build my own "U tubes" to clear the bracing for my main canister.
> 
> I might be able to modify the uptake tube to hook the skimmer tube to it. I already have two of them so I do know they work well.


Sounds like a nice tank. That first surface skimmer I linked to is supposedly designed for Fluval cansiter filter intake connectors but I discarded the intake "accordion" tube that came with it and instead rigged up an 8" piece of 5/8" tubing and modified it all to connect to my "capped" Eheim intake upright. Then used those notched screw-down metal pipe straps to tighten it down. Frankly I was surprised how quick and easy it was in the end as I fretted for a few months what to do and how it might be modified. As soon as it started working I literally stared as the milky surface scum was sucked down the skimmer and disappeared right before my eyes. The cloud of surface scum shrank and shrank until it was once again beautiful crystal clear water and surface! All in maybe 4-5 minutes too. It also eliminated those darn "bathtub rings" I was getting from the scum on the edges all around the tank's rim. My tank is completely rimless so that really ruined the look....


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## Jlanders001 (Mar 31, 2009)

rich815 said:


> Then used those notched screw-down metal pipe straps to tighten it down.


Yes, it is a nice tank. I has that 3" bracing around the top and bottom. It's bulit like a....well....like a tank!! (military)

So you have metal in your tank? Not good if it is not stainless or titanium.

You sound like me in that I frequently modify things to suit my needs. A real DIYer. I think those kind of "builds" are fun to do, and gratifying when you'er done and it works well.

I too would like to get rid of my bath tub rings! Nasty stuff. When I do clean the surface I have to fill the tank to the very top and scrub those areas with an algae pad before I have a go at it with one of my Pythons.

I'll come up with something to include one of those surface skimmers. It will be a fun modification. Just have to think about it for a little longer to decide the best course of action.

Thanks,

JTL


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

you could also try an airstone. this would out-gas your CO2, but if you run it just at night the tank would at least wake up in the morning with a clear surface.

i have observed a potential relationship that i mean to test some more. i think that N fertilization might sometimes dissipate surface films. i have one tank that develops a thick film and i have noticed a few times that after dosing KNO3 there is considerably less the next day. perhaps the extra N fuels the metabolisms of bacteria that can consume the surface film(?).


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

This is a very interesting topic, Jlanders001. 

When I first set up my tank last year, I had NO surface scum for the first year it was set up. When I moved and re-set, I started having problems with it (only mine is a clear/slime rather than milky) . 

I wonder if there is a correlation to fertilizers as hydrophyte mentioned. I know that the first year I had the tank I only used the bare minimum of liquid ferts (mostly because I didn't know what I was doing) . Now I use dry ferts, EI method, but slightly less than the recommended KNO3.

I've had mollies eat the scum, but lately not-so-much.

Anyone have more thoughts on where this stuff comes from?

-Dave


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## Jlanders001 (Mar 31, 2009)

davemonkey said:


> (only mine is a clear/slime rather than milky) .


Mine is clear and slimy with small bubbles when it gets so think that the current does not move it around anymore.



davemonkey said:


> I wonder if there is a correlation to fertilizers as hydrophyte mentioned.
> -Dave


The fertilizer thing would make sense, since all of my FW fish only tanks have none to very little scum at the surface. Only my planted tanks get it frequently - like everyday!


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Jlanders001 said:


> The fertilizer thing would make sense, since all of my FW fish only tanks have none to very little scum at the surface. Only my planted tanks get it frequently - like everyday!


You know, now that I think about it, I never had any kind of surface scum or slime when I had fish-only tanks either. What do you suppose might happen if you were to cut back on ferts (say by 1/3 or so) ? I may just give that a try this coming week.

-Dave


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## Minsc (May 7, 2006)

I used to have chronic surface scum issues in a few tanks, but now it only seems to affect my tanks when they are young.
The only difference now is a better understanding of how to provide care for difficult plants, ie:trying to maximize circulation and CO2. The better the tank conditions in general, the more things like surface scum and GSA seem to magically disappear.

That said, my advice is to look at your circulation system. Is your flow pattern creating dead spots?
Can you add more CO2? Don't be afraid to ripple the surface. Moderate surface movement all day and night can really help the health of a tank.


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## bartoli (May 8, 2006)

Jlanders001 said:


> How do you guys deal with surface scum if you do not have an overflow or one of the surface extractor tubes that you hook up to a power filter?


I got rid of surface scum by reducing the frequency of feeding blood worm and brine shrimp. I wonder whether an UV sterilizer would prevent scum or improve the situation.


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## Jlanders001 (Mar 31, 2009)

I'm pretty sure the properly installed surface skimmer that was linked to is the only thing out there to ensure a scum-free water surface for my situation.


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## Jlanders001 (Mar 31, 2009)

Minsc said:


> That said, my advice is to look at your circulation system. Is your flow pattern creating dead spots?
> Can you add more CO2? Don't be afraid to ripple the surface. Moderate surface movement all day and night can really help the health of a tank.


I don't have dead spots. My canister creates some flow and I also have a Maxi-jet 1200 (295 GPH) solely for circulation. It is slightly pointed at the surface to ripple to get that MH shimmer. And it shoots across the length of the tank from one corner to another along the top. It has a pretty strong "out and back" flow. It pushes the scum mostly to one end of the tank, but sometimes there is enough of it to cover the whole surface area minus the small circular active ripple area from the Maxi-jet.

I'm thinking this whole thing is due to the fact that it has only been set up for about 6 weeks. Maybe it will pan out. Since I have one already, I will install my surface skimmer just for reassurance.

JTL


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## rodrigaj (Aug 17, 2008)

Minsc said:


> The better the tank conditions in general, the more things like surface scum and GSA seem to magically disappear.


Bingo!

But... another contraption to install and fiddle with is alluring. I know, I've been in this hobby for 35 years and have tried them all.

BTW, has any one asked the question, "What is surface scum?".


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## Jlanders001 (Mar 31, 2009)

Proteins and other organics, right?

Man, I'm with you on that, I've tried a lot of gadgets also in my time. Currently I am filtering with cut to fit pads that are supposed to get rid of this problem, but I have yet to see any positive results from them.

JL


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## rodrigaj (Aug 17, 2008)

From thekrib:

"Surface scum is primarily composed of water-insoluble organic compounds (proteins, fats, aromatics, etc) from fish food, and/or from the decay of plant and animal matter in your aquarium. As the scum is both water-insoluble and lighter than water, it floats. Secondarily, other things can colonize the scum (presumably while feeding on it), such as bacteria, fungi, and, of course, springtails."

So if you maintain a relatively clean tank that is densely planted, has good water circulation, good CO2 levels, proper fertilization of plants, an army of snails, SAE's and so on, you won't get surface scum. This will also take care of the algae as well.


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## Jlanders001 (Mar 31, 2009)

I'm sure it is just a period the tank is going through as I keep up with maintenance and cleaning religiously.

JTL


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Jlanders001 said:


> I'm sure it is just a period the tank is going through as I keep up with maintenance and cleaning religiously.
> 
> JTL


Ditto on the cleaning/maint. I guess we can chalk it up as another symptom of New Tank Syndrome.

-Dave


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## osnapitseric (Apr 9, 2009)

i have a glass cages tank too. The only way to solve this problem is through more surface water movement of a skimmer. I has nothing to do with dosing. The scum/film is from feeding and just oil from our hands and fish waste and possible from stagnant water.


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## osnapitseric (Apr 9, 2009)

oh, i hooked up a fluval fx5 into my 60g GC tank. Over kill yes, its only on 3/4 blast. I have to up my co2 a lot to balance the extra ripple but i sure have good water flow everywhere in my tank.


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## Jlanders001 (Mar 31, 2009)

I do have good water flow in the whole tank. No dead spots either.

As I said before, one of my powerheads is *just* for extra flow and is pointed at the surface for ripples. It sends healthy ripples all over the surface. It also gives me that MH only "shimmer" that I like so much.

JTL


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