# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Poll: How many heaters is best for an aquarium?



## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

In your experience and opinion, how many heaters should an aquarium have?

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http://www.geocities.com/kfh227- go there and see my future fish section to see what I have planned for my next 100+ gallon tank.
Note: I havn't maintained the site lately.


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

In your experience and opinion, how many heaters should an aquarium have?

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http://www.geocities.com/kfh227- go there and see my future fish section to see what I have planned for my next 100+ gallon tank.
Note: I havn't maintained the site lately.


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

I voted for 2!
As I recall your tank is over 100 Gallons?
I would probably put 2 smaller heaters in big tanks, If one fails on or off your fishes won't freeze or get cooked! In big tanks you could lose a lot more $$ than a small tank if you heater fails!

That's my story!









*My Digital Gallery*


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

ekim,

Well, I bought that fire plug heater on EBay. Now I'm starting to wonder... Should I have gotten two smaller heaters. The fireplug weighs in at 500 watts.

I think for hte time being, I'm going to stick with the fireplug.

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http://www.geocities.com/kfh227- go there and see my future fish section to see what I have planned for my next 100+ gallon tank.
Note: I havn't maintained the site lately.


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Well, that's certainly more than enough for a 100 gallon tank. What's a fireplug heater?

I'm with Ekim, in a tank that size I would prefer two smaller heaters, one on either end. Much more even heat distribution that way. Even a tank with good water circulation is going to have varying temps if you have one big honking heater in one spot. That's not necessarily a bad thing as long as the temp isn't TOO uneven, but the redundancy is also a good thing.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## ranchwest (Jul 17, 2005)

George Booth recommends the use of undergravel heaters to provide circulation in the substrate and presumably to even the distribution of heat. Anyone have experience with these? Any thoughts?


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

Aquanetics Fireplug heater
Typically sells for $200. I paid $62 on EBay. I'm being the guinnee pig for everyone







As for water ciruclation, it's an inline heater, so it should help keep the tank's temperature consistant throughout. I'm hoping *knock on wood* that a $200(new) 500 watt heater is fairly reliable.

People don't usually recomend those undergravlel heaters. Not sure why though.

For the record, I think 2 heaters is better in case one of them fails. I'm starting with the one "large" heater when the 120 gallon tank goes up though. If it fails, I'll be switching to a dual heater set up. Atleast I'll know how appropriate 500 watts of heating is at that time
 








------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/kfh227- go there and see my future fish section to see what I have planned for my next 100+ gallon tank.
Note: I havn't maintained the site lately.


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

I voted 2 for that size tank. The only reason why I would not divide the required watts into 2 heaters for smaller tanks is simply because they stand out too much. I've had a 90 gallon fry itself when the contacts got stuck on my heater, if only I had 2 smaller heaters the damage would not have been as bad, only one cichlid survived the experience. Even distribution of heat is another reason why I like multiple heaters in larger tanks although that can also be solved with good water circulation.

Giancarlo Podio


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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

Two heaters are best for redundancy. If you are worried about appearance the newer titanium heaters are 1/3 the size.

Just to mention though... Don't overkill on the heaters. I went with 5wpg based on some aquarium books, but it did not take into account the 330w of light I put on top of the tank. In a 72F room I spend 99% of my time trying to keep the heat down. My heaters have never come on except in the winter during water changes.

Under gravel heater (i.e. heater cables) are normally suggested for substrate circulation as opposed to whole tank heating. They could be used for that but many require additional controllers to be used for maintaining aquarium temps. Their value in substrate is another issue entirely.

*James Hoftiezer

Tank Journal - Aquascape ( Latest / Archive )
Tank Journal - Parts and Construction ( Latest / Archive )*


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Good LORD. I could set up a new 30 gallon for what those things cost! I hope it works well for you, Karl. I agree with James, however; the old 5 wpg rule of thumb is EXTREMELY conservative. Unless you need to elevate the water temperature more than 10 degrees, 3 wpg is more than adequate. And as others have noted, using two smaller heaters to make up your total wattage minimizes the impact of a heater malfunction. There's no quicker way to kill a tankful of fish than with a malfunctioning heater.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## ranchwest (Jul 17, 2005)

Maybe I'm missing the boat, but I think doubling the number of heaters doubles the possibility of malfunction. Yes, I know that each should carry less of the load, but the problem comes when the heater gets stuck on, which it seems to me could happen with any mechanical heater.


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Yes but small heaters that get suck on won't raise the temp that much, maybe 5 or 6 dF!

A bigger heater will raise the temp more!

*My Digital Gallery*


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Ranch West:
> Maybe I'm missing the boat, but I think doubling the number of heaters doubles the possibility of malfunction. Yes, I know that each should carry less of the load, but the problem comes when the heater gets stuck on, which it seems to me could happen with any mechanical heater.


True, however what are the chances of both getting stuck at the same time? Another words, if I need 200W to heat my tank and use 2x100W heaters and one of them gets stuck, the 100W it's putting out will take much longer to boil the tank than is a single 200W heater would take, hopefully giving you enough time to realize that there is a problem and turn the heater off before it's too late. And of course I think most of us are speaking of using 2 good heaters so the chances of both dying on you should be very slim.
For some reason these things always happen at night when you're sleeping









Giancarlo Podio


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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

That is true. By splitting it across two heaters you are increasing hte chance of fialure but decreasing (we hope) the impact of any failure.

Additionally the other comments decrease the chance or impact od failure;
A) That's why I cautioned against over capacity. If there is fault all that extra capacity is going to work against you. Besides why pay for it if you'll never use it.
B) The newer titanium heaters use solid state elements decreasing (but not eliminating) the chance o failure.

*James Hoftiezer

Tank Journal - Aquascape ( Latest / Archive )
Tank Journal - Parts and Construction ( Latest / Archive )*


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

Maybe I'll ask for a heater system upgrade for X-mas







I think I might want to go dual.

Maybe if I could find a thermostat that could acts as redundancy for the tank, I should do that.

Something like:
Power from the wall -> thermostat -> 500 watt heater.

Set the heater at 78 and the thermostat at 82 or so.

The thermostat would need a sensor in the tank though, but that should be doable. I'll go so some research on this concept.

------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/kfh227- go there and see my future fish section to see what I have planned for my next 100+ gallon tank.
Note: I havn't maintained the site lately.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

I am not sure about you guys, but I have never run a heater for more then 2 years without selling it off and buying a new one. I buy a brand new one for $40, sell it for $25 and it still looks new, no one ever complains about that price. I spend a couple bucks to get a brand new one. I have never used more then one heater, and I have never had one fail, in over 15 years. Even in my 150gallon, I used 1 300w Rena. The thing to consider, is that a small heater needs to stay on a LONG time to heat up the water compared to a larger heater, and this astronomically increases the chances of it screwing up. Also, being on for extended time makes the elements hot leading anything that touches it to burns. Not cool!









I think the redundancy issue is a waste of money and damn does it look ugly! IMO Buy a big one, and a year later sell it, a year later sell that one too. There ya go 3 years worth of new heaters compared to two small heaters that are 3 years old, that would cost you the same. In the scheme of things, $20 is nothing. Also take into consideration, if you don't sell it, you have a good heater kicking around to set up a new tank!


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## ranchwest (Jul 17, 2005)

Justin,

I agree, I don't think two half-rated heaters are less active than one full-rated heater. In fact, I believe the two heaters would be likely to be on more frequently, thereby significantly increasing the likelihood of heater failure.


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> I think the redundancy issue is a waste of money and damn does it look ugly! IMO Buy a big one, and a year later sell it, a year later sell that one too.


Sell it? To whom? Do you mean on E-Bay or AquaBid? There sure wouldn't be much of a local market, I wouldn't think, or at least there wouldn't be around here. I guess you're talking Canadian; my Ebo-Jagers cost less than $20 American, for the most part, but I don't see the logic in swapping them out for no reason. However--to each his own. I only run two heaters in my largest tank, my 120 gallon, and I have no trouble at all hiding them or any of my other equipment behind the foliage. As mentioned above--nobody disputes that the smaller heaters will likely work harder. The whole point is that if a smaller heater should fail, it won't be able to heat the tank up to the danger point as quickly as a larger one, and will give you more time to discover and remedy the problem.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Doomer (Feb 2, 2003)

2 except for during the summer months. They remain unplugged until late october.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Vicky,

To whom sell the heater? To whomever you want. Local clubs, papers with classifieds, I sell all mine locally cause I am too lazy for the shipping deal. But yes I bet ebay and aquabid would work. I have never once had any trouble selling anything. I just sold maybe 6 full setups in the past 2 months. (I took down my fish room), and atleast $2000 worth of misc parts and equiptment.

Yes price wise I am talking Canadian. If your Ebos are only $20 I would not even sell them! Every year I would just set a new tank up







Seriously though, Why sell a perfectly good heater? Very rarely do new heaters fail. In my case, never. As time goes by and they are used and abused, they start to break down. So why not just grab a new one and never have to worry? Possibly look into a LFS that accepts tradeins? We have one of those locally too.

As far as hiding things behind folliage goes. I hate to have to do that because it limits the flexibility of design.

Also, I like the redundancy issue from the perspective of myself as an employee.







Why sell one when I can sell two!

On redundancy though, I have maybe seen 2 or 3 heaters back this year, that were new and had not preformed properly, and that is out of atleast 1000 units. 0 of those were Rena or Ebos. All Marinelands or Hagens. Your filter is MUCH more likely to suffer mechanical failure, and VERY few people keep a spare filter around, and even less have a ready to replace cycled filter around. Out of new filters I see two or three a month back, probably sell around 100 units a month, and usually once a week we get people who need service/parts for thier filter, ASAP cause the tank has none on it now and allll the fish are gonna die if we don't get this filter running RIGHT away!!!! I usually have a hard time explaining that since thier filter has been unpluged for hours most of the beneficial bacteria is dead. I think more people lack a backup filter cause of the associated costs, but I have a 2213 ready to go in case my filter goes down! Sorry off topic. Getting two BAD heaters is not better then one good heater. My point is, IMO the way I do it, it's associated cost without associated reward.

Not to mention the 500W mammoth Kherman is getting would fry his tank in a little less than 4 hours anyways, if things go wrong. Any method of heaters would be safer then the fireplug. Throw caution to the wind!

For some reason this reminds me of slate bottom tanks using candles to heat the slate to heat the aquarium......


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

LOL! I don't know what an ad runs in your neck of the woods, but it must be less than mine--it would cost me more than a new heater would! I do see your point, and since you seem to have a built-in customer base I'd say that's a great system. I do always keep a couple of heaters on hand, in different sizes, and I run two filters on all my big tanks as well, so I always have a spare in the event of an emergency. Of course, filter failure on a properly stocked, heavily planted aquarium is not nearly the emergency heater failure is, but I have a lot invested in my tanks and I don't like to take any chances. Maybe I SHOULD check around and see if there's a better market than I'm aware of for used equipment (other than tanks, that is).

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Ads are free here.... Is that uncommon? The local Buy & Sell makes it's money from advertising to all the people reading it, thereby encouraging more people to place ads. The weekly buy & sell is usually 100+pages.

True I do have a built in customer base, a few calls gets what I have gone, but I also give away the heaters and filters to kids ect at work who have good intentions and listen to the advise they get, and have sincere intentions with the health of the fish inmind, but can't afford bigger and badder equiptment. Heaters ect do not come with the small entry level kits we sell. Always makes them happy, and that is how I got into the hobby 15 years ago. Also I donate kits to homes for the mentally disabled ect. This is because I have to give tanks away to get rid of them, and if your giving away the tank whats a aquaclear some gravel and a heater anyways?

True if your filters crap out on a planted tank that would not be the end of it, but not everyone has a health base of plants to do the filters dirty work









Always look around to see if there is a decent local market. I always upgrade my equiptment every year or two, and never have I found a lack of people looking for a deal.


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

I guess that's one way of looking at it. I buy a good filter and heater and tend to keep it for many years. It is however one of those cases where the luck of the draw has kept most of us safe from heater malfunctions. In my earlier post, I mentioned my 90 gallon getting boiled from a heater who's contacts got stuck, first of all the heater was under a year old and of a good brand name which I had used for many years before that, it was even under warranty! (replaced the heater but not the fish). It was just the luck of the draw, only then did I realize that it was a safer bet to go with 2 smaller units when possible, specially in a larger tank where the benefits also include better heat distribution. Also, the chances of your contacts becoming fused together does not increase with your heater being on for longer periods of time, actually it increases with the amount of on/off cycles it performs. It's an arching related problem.

Now I don't have two heaters in all my tanks, actually none of the 55 and under tanks in my house have more than one heater. But at the same time they are slightly under powered seeing I keep my house temperature constant and the temperature difference is 4-6F.

If it happens to you and you loose all your stock from such a large tank you might end up kicking yourself for not having "wasted" that extra $30.

Like wearing your seatbelt, it saved my life once and I've always used it since.
Giancarlo Podio


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Not to mention the 500W mammoth Kherman is getting would fry his tank in a little less than 4 hours anyways, if things go wrong. Any method of heaters would be safer then the fireplug. Throw caution to the wind!


Ahhhhhhh









Oh well, I'll be the guinnee pig for a while. Any experience with the fireplug, or is it hte 500 watts that is the scary point?

Anyways, I think I'll end up selling/replacing hte fireplug several months down the road unless I get very confident with it or I read about some "fail safe" functionality in the manual. That $200 new pricetag really has me convinced. The company that makes it tends to make products for "larger" systems. Some heaters support thousands of gallons.

But you did scare me a bit. I really don't want ot fry my tank, especially after it's established.

------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/kfh227- go there and see my future fish section to see what I have planned for my next 100+ gallon tank.
Note: I havn't maintained the site lately.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Giancarlo,

Yes your correct it's an arcing related issue, but it has a lot to do with how hot the contacts are when they arc as well. A hot arc is far more reactive then a cold arc. TONS of people fry thier contacts by forgeting to turn the heater off during a water change, and the heater overheats but does not blow up. I think your situation with the new heater frying is very rare, but would be curious to know which brand it was. Perhaps send me a PM if your not comportable saying it publicly.

As far as the seatbelt goes, that is a WHOLE other discussion, as to where it benefits and where it further aggrevates injuries. There is a good time to wear it that is for sure, but in other times it will do far more harm then it will prevent. Now if only you knew which situation you were going to get into....

Kherman,

I have no experiance with the fireplugs, but the 500W part is some serious overkill IMHO, unless you live in an igloo







In many books they do recommend 5 wpg, however I believe 3 is far more appropriate. If you consider why people say two small heaters is safer, the idea would be a continuously operating 100W heater would take a LONG time to overheat 100+gallons, giving you time to notice the manfunction. However an inline 500w would cook that tank so fast it would probably make your head spin.







What would be interesting to see would be to turn it to max, after it's set to 78 and see how long it actually takes to overheat.







I love experamenting


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

It was a 220V 300W Tetra submergible heater. Just bad luck I guess, never had any other problems with them.

BTW, not very important however I also like to be able to do a water change without turning the heaters off, I can do this in the 90 gallon with the 2 shorter heaters which remain submerged all the time, I can't do this in my 55 with a single heater. 

Giancarlo Podio


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## Tenor1 (Mar 3, 2003)

This is an interesting debate. I want to share some personal experiences from the 40+ years my brothers and I have been in this hobby.

The only time we used two heaters in one tank there were fish deaths due to one of the heaters failing. The tank was large for one single heater and we didn't know one unit wasn't working at all. The heaters were hidden from view PLUS the tanks thermometer was inaccurate. We lived in Switzerland and our fish tank room was very cold so the suggestion of two heaters seemed excellent. Now we keep a spare heater handy (as well as a spare filter). 

Rena and Ebo-Jaeger heaters use thicker glass tubing than other brands and are less resistent to cracking if you forget to unplug them during water changes. Since many heaters are completely submersible putting them horizontal above the substrate vertually eliminates this problem. We have one Ebo heater that is about 20 years old and still working. It's still in that cold room in Switzerland, lol.

Tanks over 100 gallons take a long time to heat up or cool down. If it's a planted tank then the heat from the lights would keep the tank warm enough, IMO, to last throughout the night. The tank heaters would rarely ever turn on in these large tanks. Thus I would still only use 1 heater. 

And that 500-watt monster heater...I'm afraid of it, lol. It would probably cause a fuse to blow if the lights were using the same socket, lol.

We've had more trouble with thermometers breaking or giving bad readings than problems with heaters. I'm trying one of those little stick-on types now and it seems fine so far. My brother doesn't trust them though, lol.

Regards,

Carlos 
Carlo

==============================
I try to keep the tank plain and simple but it never stays that way!


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Tetra heaters are not that same quality as Ebo and Rena, we don't even carry them. They are sure better then Hagens thermals or tronics tho! I would suspect brand choise played a roll in your failure.

Thanks for sharing Tenor, good to know I am not the only one using one heater









good point about the heater, though I suspect on a standard 15A breaker, you would have to have a lot more draw then the lights plus that heater to screw the breaker up.


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