# need help starting out right!



## sasa (Apr 15, 2005)

Hi there,

I have good experience on fish tanks with fake plants, and would like to start a new aquarium with natural plants, I have read a lot on forums but I'm still confused.

This is what I have so far:

* 77 gallon glass tank
* Eheim Classic filter 2217
* 3 bags of flourite (15.4 lbs each)
* 1 bag of eco-complete (20 lbs)
* 3 bags of spectra stone (25 lbs each)
* 2 power glo 40W (they came with the tank)
* Co2 system (10lb tank, jbj co2 regulator - Includes two gauges, solenoid, bubble counter, needle valve - Power reactor)

The plants will be: Cypherus helferi, Cryptocorie spp, Arubias barteri barteri, Arubias barteri nana, Limnophilia aromatiroides, Bolbitis heudelotti and Microsorum spp.

I want to start it right from the beginning so I would appreciate some advice from you guys:

1. I read about the 2WG rule (154 W for a 77 gallons tank) but also read that for this size it will be good 220 W. Which one is correct?

2. Also read that it'd be good to start with fast growing plants for the first 2 weeks to control the algae and after that change them to crown plants. Is any way to control the algae having the plants (listed above) since the beginning?

3. Is it better to start with 2-3 Co2 bpm or just start with 1 and gradually increment it to 2-3

4. Finally, when should I start adding the nutrient to the tank?

Thanks and spare me for asking too many questions,

Sasa


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Hi, Sasa, welcome to APC. Let's see if we can make some suggestions here.



> 1. I read about the 2WG rule (154 W for a 77 gallons tank) but also read that for this size it will be good 220 W. Which one is correct?


Typically most folks have in the 2-4 wpg range. Starting out, I would strongly advice the 2wpg route. This gives you more wiggle room to get your system going. You can always go higher once you're firing on all cylinders.



> 2. Also read that it'd be good to start with fast growing plants for the first 2 weeks to control the algae and after that change them to crown plants. Is any way to control the algae having the plants (listed above) since the beginning?


When you first set up a tank you want to *plant it heavily*. When you think you have a lot of plants, add a few more. Ideally you do want some fast growers there. The idea is if the plants are growing well, the algae doesn't. Of the plants you have there, the Cyperus, Anubias and Crypts are all slow growers. Bolbitis is fairly fast. You might want to add some hornwort or hygrophylla as well.



> 3. Is it better to start with 2-3 Co2 bpm or just start with 1 and gradually increment it to 2-3


You want to add enough CO2 to have around 30ppm. This you determine by knowing the pH and KH of your water. You will need to measure this. Then you can go somewhere like http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm to calculate your amounts.



> 4. Finally, when should I start adding the nutrient to the tank?


 As soon as you set it up.

HTH.


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## sasa (Apr 15, 2005)

Hi Bert,

Thanks for your advice, for the 2wpg route is it better to use the Power compact fluorescent lighting or can I use the the standard fluorescent lighting (I don't think my canopy accept the power compact though)

Sasa


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

sasa said:


> I want to start it right from the beginning so I would appreciate some advice from you guys:
> 
> 1. I read about the 2WG rule (154 W for a 77 gallons tank) but also read that for this size it will be good 220 W. Which one is correct?


That depends on the lighting. Are you planning on sticking with NO? I'd suggest you switch to T5; exactly like PC but cheaper, smaller and runs cooler. I would suggest you invest in a 4x54w setup, that way you can control growth by using more/less lighting at a time. Because out of all the plants you're using the Limnophilla needs quite some light.



sasa said:


> 2. Also read that it'd be good to start with fast growing plants for the first 2 weeks to control the algae and after that change them to crown plants. Is any way to control the algae having the plants (listed above) since the beginning?


Keep C02 relatively high (30-35ppm) during the initial phase. Add fast-growers, such as Hygrophila genus, the true aquatics(Cabomba, Egeria, Ceratophyllum) and Ceratopteris are great starters. Plant densely, and when you're ready to start aquascaping don't remove them all at once; do it gradually.



sasa said:


> 3. Is it better to start with 2-3 Co2 bpm or just start with 1 and gradually increment it to 2-3


As above, keep it high during the initial phase and then slowly decrease it after you've finished aquascaping.



sasa said:


> 4. Finally, when should I start adding the nutrients to the tank?


You can do it right from the start, but dose a full dose from the beginning. Use a half dose, then switch to a full dose once you're finished with your layout.


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## titan97 (Feb 14, 2005)

Sosa,
If you can fit 2WPG worth of normal fluorescents in your hood, then you can use them. The reason most people use the PC fixtures is because they are smaller and give off more light. It will be easier to get 2WPG with the PC set. There are several manufacturers of PC hoods. Coralife, All-Glass, etc. Personally, I'm a DIY kinda guy so I buy my PC stuff from AHSupply and make my own hoods for less than half the price.

-Dustin


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Another reason for pc flourescents is that they will last until they burn out. With standard flourescents you have to replace them yearly because their output decreases over time.


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## Praxx42 (Mar 4, 2005)

Bert H said:


> *Another reason for pc flourescents is that they will last until they burn out.* With standard flourescents you have to replace them yearly because their output decreases over time.


Really? I've heard several different opinions on this, ranging from 12-24 months replacement time, but this is the first I've read anyone saying you should let them go 'til they burn out. ?


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

Yes, that's what's being recommended for the power compacts (and T5s). Apparently they keep something like 90% of their luminosity until they die...

As opposed to the T8s and T12s...


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Sasa,

I think there are 2 things that one must do when setting up a new planted tank:

1. Use bacteria to seed the substrate and the water (which will carry the bacteria to the biofilter).

2. Erradicate algae when they are just starting to appear, even before you see them.

As I understand good bacteria that works is Dupla Baccies for the substrate and BioSpira for the water.

Erradication of the algae should be done with all possible means and once again - don't wait to see them appearing. A lot of shrimp (1 per gallon or 1-1/2 per gallon of tank volume) is probably one of the best ways. The cost of the shrimp is considerable but if you ever start fighting algae you will see it's worth it.

Also consider the following:

Pump as much CO2 as you can. For a 77 gal tank, assuming full solubilization and KH=3-6, 1 bubble every 5 seconds will be a good rate, but not "as much as you can".

Fluorite and EcoComplete make a weak, non-rich substrate. You will have to feed the plants from the water. That is not the best way but it is doable and many have used it with good success.

--Nikolay


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Bert H said:


> You want to add enough CO2 to have around 30ppm. This you determine by knowing the pH and KH of your water. You will need to measure this. Then you can go somewhere like http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm to calculate your amounts.


 APC FAQ ....


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

Praxx42 said:


> Really? I've heard several different opinions on this, ranging from 12-24 months replacement time, but this is the first I've read anyone saying you should let them go 'til they burn out. ?


Actually many people do that. I also use PCs till they burn out. 2 out of 4 died after 2.5 years. 2 are still going.


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