# Different CSMB



## skewlboy (Jun 9, 2006)

I'm wondering if there is a different CSMB available for invert people - Planted tanks w/ inverts. One with a lower concentration of Copper.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

*Re: Different CSM+B*

I remember reading a thread about CSM+B, shrimp and Copper. This thread said that there wasn't enough copper when dosed properly to cause concerns with shrimp. The copper in CSM+B is Chelated (Cu EDTA). http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...533-suspicion-csm-b-killing-amano-shrimp.html

Here's another thread that says that shrimp at Copper levels approaching just 0.1 ppm can be problematic depending on pH, presence of chelating agents or plants that can absorb it, etc.: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...inverts-planted-aquariums/45064-cu-level.html

We can compare the Copper level in CSM+B to Seachem's Flourish and Tropica's Plant Nutrition _liquid_ (old TMG).
http://www.plantprod.com/US/products/catalogue-set.html?pdf/Micronutrient.Mixes.pdf
http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Flourish.html
http://www.tropica.com/default.asp

You can use these calculators to find the Copper level at the recommended dosages of CSM+B, Flourish and Tropica's Plant Nutrition _liquid_. It's listed as TMG in these calculators.
http://www.fishfriend.com/fertfriend.html
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilator.php

Using EI dosage recommendations for 20 to 40 gallon aquarium and using a 30 gallon aquarium as the example. You dose 1/16 tsp or 5 mL of micro 3x a week. The dosage of each product and Copper concentrations are listed here:
5 mL Flourish = 0.000044 ppm of Copper
5 mL Plant Nutrition _liquid_ = 0.002642 ppm of Copper 
1/16 tsp CSM+B = 0.001334 ppm of Copper

* CSM+B at this dosage only has 50.5 % of the Copper level that Plant Nutrition _liquid_ does, but it has 30.3 times the amount of Copper that Flourish has.

* It appears that Flourish has the least amount of Copper in it at these dosages.

To find the Copper level in Flourish and Plant Nitrition _liquid_, just use the fertfriend. Finding the Copper level in CSM+B using the fertilator is a little more involved. The fertilator only calculates the Iron level, but you can find the Copper level by using a ratio. The Copper level in CSM+B is 0.1% and the Iron level is 7.0%. So the ratio of Copper to Iron is 0.0142866 to 1.

1/16 tsp of CSM+B is 0.0625 tsp. When we plug this into the fertilator; we get 0.0934 ppm of Iron.

So 0.0934 ppm of Iron times the ratio of 0.0142866 parts to 1 of Copper to Iron = 0.001334 ppm of Copper.

Anyway, I just wanted you to see the ppm amounts of Copper in these products.

Good luck with your inverts.

Left C

Additional info:
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/List_AquireAll.jsp?Rec_Id=PC33541
http://riaquatics.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=27


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

skewlboy said:


> I'm wondering if there is a different CSMB available for invert people - Planted tanks w/ inverts. One with a lower concentration of Copper.


No... After doing a little research a while back I found that _"Kent Micros"_ has less copper than the other major brands.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

CSM is cheap because it isn't made for aquarium use. Boron is added to make it CSM+B, so it is a more complete trace element mix for aquarium use. But, the manufacturer isn't going to bother with our needs, so don't expect to see an Aquatic Plant CSM.


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