# Green water, zero nitrates?!



## megamax42 (Jun 28, 2011)

So I have a 40 gallon tank that has been up and running for just under 2 months, it now has 2 quarter sized angelfish, 9 black neon tetras, 2 fairly small SAEs, 5 RCS and 4 ghost shrimp. It is pretty heavily planted with a variety of things, however the italian valis. has definitely taken over. The substrate is thoroughly washed playsand (1-2 inches deep) and it has 2 bio-wheel filters rated for 20 gallons each. The light is 2x39w T5 HO (6700K Daylight Lamp and one 'Colormax' Lamp - http://www.marineandreef.com/Coralife_Aqualight_HO_FRESHWATER_T5_36_inch_p/res08612.htm) Oh and I do 5 gallon water changes weekly. Ammonia, Nitrite and nitrate readings are constantly zero.

Well now for the juicy details, for the past 6 weeks or so I've been fighting cyanobacteria, and for a long time it was winning. I'm not fertilizing macro elements so I figured perhaps the cause was too low of nitrates, so I ordered some KNO3 off ebay and still waiting for that. I tried DIY CO2 and it certainly helped the plants but didn't seem to affect the cyano too much except for turn some of it from green to greenish-yellow. I also have been dosing trace elements fairly regularly (with water changes). I got fed up with the cyano so I did a giant cleaning and tried to manually remove as much as possible. It was looking beautiful, and then several days later the water started getting green, and greener, and greener...The good news is the cyano seems to have slowed down A LOT, however now visibility in the tank is almost nil.

I think my problem is still low nitrates and then on top of that the plentiful trace elements make a perfect environment for the 'Euglaena'. I am also afraid that the play sand may be suffocating the roots, however I've heard they can intake nutrients through the leaves, so I'm not sure about that theory. I intend on getting some MTS eventually to help turn over the sand but until then I need to figure something out. I appreciate those of you who read this short novel lol


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Have you read the stickies in the fertilizer section? I think that may help a lot. Your tank is not heavily planted. Heavily means you can hardly see any substrate. Yours is very lightly planted. You need ferts. You may be dosing trace but you need nitrogen, phosphates, and potassium. Once you start supplying those things your algae will go a way. You are correct at you can supply those in the water column.

Look at the tank in this thread. This is heavily planted. 
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/journals/60035-tex-guys-big-adventure-11.html


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## megamax42 (Jun 28, 2011)

Tex Gal said:


> Have you read the stickies in the fertilizer section? I think that may help a lot. Your tank is not heavily planted. Heavily means you can hardly see any substrate. Yours is very lightly planted. You need ferts. You may be dosing trace but you need nitrogen, phosphates, and potassium. Once you start supplying those things your algae will go a way. You are correct at you can supply those in the water column.


Ah I see, looks like I need to find some dry phosphates too. Thanks for the help! What compound would you recommend for my source of phosphates on top of the KNO3 that will be coming in?


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

kH2PO4 (Mono Potassium Phosphate). I get mine here. 
http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizer.html

I dose that and potassium and iron along with the nitrogen and traces. There are other places that sell them. The link below is another one.
http://www.aquariumplants.com/mobile/default.aspx#pc39_2


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## megamax42 (Jun 28, 2011)

Tex Gal said:


> kH2PO4 (Mono Potassium Phosphate). I get mine here.
> http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizer.html
> 
> I dose that and potassium and iron along with the nitrogen and traces. There are other places that sell them. The link below is another one.
> http://www.aquariumplants.com/mobile/default.aspx#pc39_2


Cool! thanks for the help :yo: there are A LOT of smileys on here lol


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## JeffyFunk (Apr 6, 2006)

From my experience, nitrates is not the cause of green water; Too much Fe (iron) is. The only solution that I have found for green water is a UV sterilizer. Reducing or eliminating Fe addition did not cure the green water; Instead, it resulted in my plants showing signs of Fe deficiency. I have the submariner submersible UV sterilizer for dealing w/ green water. Apparently, the same UV sterilizer is also sold at truaqua.com. (I asked them if their UV light would fit in my submariner since my UV light broke and they responded that "yes, it should since they get it from the same manufacturer of the submariner UV sterilizer".) 

I agree w/ Texgal and think that your plants are starving. Without a consistent source of nutrients through either a nutrient rich substrate (like soil, aquasoil, flourite, etc) or water column nutrient dosing, your plants are going to starve and allow algae to grow. In my opinion, I think the best course of action would be to tear down your tank and set it back up w/ a soil sub-layer (i.e. a low tech tank or 'El natural' tank). If you don't want to do that, another option would be to insert root-tabs underneath the substrate for your plants. Another option would be to put some of your plants up in "pots" with a soil sublayer. To do this, you would take a small flower pot (or other small container), cover the drainage hole, place 1'' to 1.5'' soil in the pot, place the plant on the surface of the pot, and then cover both the bottom of the plant and the soil layer w/ 1 to 1.5'' small grained gravel or sand. (If you use sand, I would go w/ no more than 1'' sand since it is a finer material than gravel.) Then, simply insert the plant back into the aquarium, being careful not to tip it over or have any of the soil sub-layer leak out. 

If you want to go w/ the water fertilizing direction, I always purchase my fertilizers from Aquariumfertilizer.com. This site has decent price, a great selection and quality fertilizers. (I've had issues w/ low quality KNO3 from other sources. KNO3 that is contaminated w/ ammonia or ammonium salts can cause additional algae issues.)


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## megamax42 (Jun 28, 2011)

JeffyFunk said:


> From my experience, nitrates is not the cause of green water; Too much Fe (iron) is. The only solution that I have found for green water is a UV sterilizer. Reducing or eliminating Fe addition did not cure the green water; Instead, it resulted in my plants showing signs of Fe deficiency. I have the submariner submersible UV sterilizer for dealing w/ green water. Apparently, the same UV sterilizer is also sold at truaqua.com. (I asked them if their UV light would fit in my submariner since my UV light broke and they responded that "yes, it should since they get it from the same manufacturer of the submariner UV sterilizer".)
> 
> I agree w/ Texgal and think that your plants are starving. Without a consistent source of nutrients through either a nutrient rich substrate (like soil, aquasoil, flourite, etc) or water column nutrient dosing, your plants are going to starve and allow algae to grow. In my opinion, I think the best course of action would be to tear down your tank and set it back up w/ a soil sub-layer (i.e. a low tech tank or 'El natural' tank). If you don't want to do that, another option would be to insert root-tabs underneath the substrate for your plants. Another option would be to put some of your plants up in "pots" with a soil sublayer. To do this, you would take a small flower pot (or other small container), cover the drainage hole, place 1'' to 1.5'' soil in the pot, place the plant on the surface of the pot, and then cover both the bottom of the plant and the soil layer w/ 1 to 1.5'' small grained gravel or sand. (If you use sand, I would go w/ no more than 1'' sand since it is a finer material than gravel.) Then, simply insert the plant back into the aquarium, being careful not to tip it over or have any of the soil sub-layer leak out.
> 
> If you want to go w/ the water fertilizing direction, I always purchase my fertilizers from Aquariumfertilizer.com. This site has decent price, a great selection and quality fertilizers. (I've had issues w/ low quality KNO3 from other sources. KNO3 that is contaminated w/ ammonia or ammonium salts can cause additional algae issues.)


Thanks for the response! Bummer, I was hoping I wouldn't have to do too much of a revamp, however I have been toying around with the idea of replacing, or doing something with the substrate. What material would you recommend for soil sub-layer under the sand? Is there any material I could use so that I could do one half of the tank at a time with water still in it? And would I then make the playsand layer a lot thinner? I appreciate all the help from you guys


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## Glaucus (Oct 11, 2009)

megamax42 said:


> green, and greener, and greener...


Nowadays, going green is the way to go. Keep it up. [smilie=b:

Obviously without nitrogen you couldn't possibly have green water nor would your valisneria grow well. Chances are that you are hauling in fresh doses of nitrates every week and once the fire is going you just keep fueling it. At some point there must have been plenty of it. I assume that you are using regular tap water, find out what your water company reports on water parameters and see whats in it before you go dosing anything at all. After this you can calibrate your testing equipment easily too and dose as required.

I never had green water in any of my tanks, but i'm certain that its not caused solely by low or high nitrates or fe or any of that. It can certainly add to it as mentioned but don't bother too much about a single parameter unless it is extreme. The cyanbacter however indicates poor water movement i would check on that. Playsand as you describe is notorious for cyanbacter development. Try using a coarser sand type or swimmingpool filter sand. Use it for decorative purposes only.

About the main soil, there are lots of fine nutrient rich soils to choose from. Just make sure you pick one that doesn't rot or float.  I'm sure others will provide you with some brands that are available in your area.


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## megamax42 (Jun 28, 2011)

Glaucus said:


> Nowadays, going green is the way to go. Keep it up. [smilie=b:
> 
> Obviously without nitrogen you couldn't possibly have green water nor would your valisneria grow well. Chances are that you are hauling in fresh doses of nitrates every week and once the fire is going you just keep fueling it. At some point there must have been plenty of it. I assume that you are using regular tap water, find out what your water company reports on water parameters and see whats in it before you go dosing anything at all. After this you can calibrate your testing equipment easily too and dose as required.
> 
> ...


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## leprechaun (Jan 12, 2011)

After battling green water at the onset of two different tanks, I believe there is a reason everyone has a different cure. Everyone tries many different things and attributes the cure to the final "treatment".


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## megamax42 (Jun 28, 2011)

leprechaun said:


> After battling green water at the onset of two different tanks, I believe there is a reason everyone has a different cure. Everyone tries many different things and attributes the cure to the final "treatment".


Thanks for the response man, your absolutely right, I've heard of people battling green water for months! I'm not home right now, but my girlfriend said about 10 days ago after she did a water change the tank started randomly clearing up, and now today the water is crystal clear! I was rejoicing :bounce:. Must've been a chemical imbalance? Either way I couldn't be happier, and she said even the BGA has yet to come back  Not that I'm complaining


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