# Plant problems?/Rotala problem



## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

Rotala indica is growing small leaves. What could be the cause of this?


----------



## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

*Re: Rotala indica growing small leaves*

I assume you're talking about http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/details.php?id=39&category=genus&spec=Rotala.

Lack of light? Low nutrients? Nobody can really know unless all the tank parameters and so on are known.


----------



## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

*Plant problems?*









I am having problems with my plants. Is this the right place to post this?

My plants are not growing as they should be. The rotala indica is growing small leaves.

Light is 1 t5 compact 65 watts and 1 plant grow bulb 20 watts over it. Lights on 5hr off 2hr on 4hr.

Substrate is 3 layers. 1st layer is a mix of dirt, dynamite fert, shults root starter and kitty litter. 2nd layer fingers width of pool sand. 3rd layer flourite.

Co2 in form of flourish excell. 
Fert is potassium. Waiting for calcium sulfate order.

Water is very soft and ph is 7.4

Anybody got suggestions as to what I can do? Just ordered some Tonia and Hygro sunset. So need get problem under controll soon.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/twister5/


----------



## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

I merged the threads. What is the tank size? You're using soil? I didn't see this before I responded to the other one, but more is still needed. The Tonina may have a hard time in a low tech setup. It'd be great if I were proven wrong on that, but I think it will have trouble. There's more about that one in the Plant Finder.


----------



## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

Cavan Allen said:


> I merged the threads. What is the tank size? You're using soil? I didn't see this before I responded to the other one, but more is still needed. The Tonina may have a hard time in a low tech setup. It'd be great if I were proven wrong on that, but I think it will have trouble. There's more about that one in the Plant Finder.


Yeh, I ordered the tonia because I read at aqua-fish net that it does good in soft water. Afterward I saw it is a difficult plant.

Didn't expect such a quick response.

Forgot to add this is a 29 gallon tank. Using soil for this is walstead method. It is now working for me. Planning to add a 20 watt light.


----------



## customdrumfinishes (Apr 1, 2008)

65watts on a 29g is low/med light. the indica will grow slowly with small leaves if its short stems,you need more light for things to boom. i have 65w on a 30g to and its all low light plants, no medoum light plants grow that great

"Substrate is 3 layers. 1st layer is a mix of dirt, dynamite fert, shults root starter and kitty litter. 2nd layer fingers width of pool sand. 3rd layer flourite."

never heard of ths much different stuff for substrate, is the shultz root start fish safe?


----------



## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

customdrumfinishes said:


> 65watts on a 29g is low/med light. the indica will grow slowly with small leaves if its short stems,you need more light for things to boom. i have 65w on a 30g to and its all low light plants, no medoum light plants grow that great
> 
> "Substrate is 3 layers. 1st layer is a mix of dirt, dynamite fert, shults root starter and kitty litter. 2nd layer fingers width of pool sand. 3rd layer flourite."
> 
> never heard of ths much different stuff for substrate, is the shultz root start fish safe?


I added 20 watts last night. That is all I have room for. Next stem is to add reflectors between the bulbs.

Assumed additives to soil would be okay because it is capped by sand and flourite. Uncertain now. Since I came back from vacation I have been having trouble with fish deaths. Quarantined, disinfected filter, added meds, salt. Last night saw 1 with clamped fins so added cycle chem and API stress coat. She looks fine today. If after 2 weeks fish still dieing I will start over and not add anything for aquariums into the substrate. The dynamite and cat litter were ideas I got on line by someone whom used them.


----------



## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

Hornwort is taking over. I added a 20 watt plant bulb. Now total watts is 85. The tops of the rotola indica are looking better. Some bare spots on the bottom are growing little leaves.


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

As plants grow they get closer to the light, thus get higher light intensity, which helps them grow faster and better. I found my stem plants would grow at a reasonable rate until they got about 2/3 of the way to the surface. Then they would do a mad dash to the surface - beautiful big leaves, but big pruning job required immediately. Having the light fixture suspended a few inches above the tank greatly reduces that effect, not that you would want to do so.


----------



## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

hoppycalif said:


> As plants grow they get closer to the light, thus get higher light intensity, which helps them grow faster and better. I found my stem plants would grow at a reasonable rate until they got about 2/3 of the way to the surface. Then they would do a mad dash to the surface - beautiful big leaves, but big pruning job required immediately. Having the light fixture suspended a few inches above the tank greatly reduces that effect, not that you would want to do so.


The light fixture is a few inches above the tank now. It is a satellite fixture and it has little legs that it sits on. It has 1 65 dual daylight lamp and 1 actinic lamp. Since 1 is actinic I put a plant grow bulb, 20 watts, under it. So perhaps now things will even up.


----------



## chagovatoloco (Nov 17, 2007)

It has one actinic and one 65w duel day light? Am I to understand that this has space for two 65w bulbs? If so I would toss the actinic and the 20w and use the two duel day light. I have 130w over my 29gallon and things run fine.


----------



## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

chagovatoloco said:


> It has one actinic and one 65w duel day light? Am I to understand that this has space for two 65w bulbs? If so I would toss the actinic and the 20w and use the two duel day light. I have 130w over my 29gallon and things run fine.


The light fixture has 2 t5 dual lights. One is a 65 Watt Dual 6700K /10000K daylight bulb and 1 is 65 watt actinic bulb. I took the actinic bulb out. Then put the fixture on its legs. Under the fixture I put the 20 watt t8 plant light in the area where there is no bulb. It hangs a bit outside of the fixture.

Lights on: 
T5 3hrs 2hrs
T8 2hrs 5hrs
The plants seem to doing better since I added the t8 bulb. I have it on last long so I can view the tank.


----------



## SpeedEuphoria (Jul 9, 2008)

dawntwister said:


> Lights on:
> T5 3hrs 2hrs
> T8 2hrs 5hrs


what does this mean????


----------



## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

SpeedEuphoria said:


> what does this mean????


She has a rest period in between the two lighting periods. To get total hours of light add two numbers together... (I think...)


----------



## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

Sorry I am not getting notification of replies. 

I don't remember what this meant. It was some kind of combination with a break in between.
T5 3hrs 2hrs
T8 2hrs 5hrs

I am dealing with hair algae at present. The plants, except Tonia, are growing tall and leggy.

Just did water change and added 5m of flourish excel.
Going to continue dosing 3 ml for 5 days.
Lights are 1 T8 17watt bulb and 1 T5 65 watt compact bulb. 
I have T8 on 3hr then T5 on 2hrs and then T8 2 hours, which gives me a total of 7hrs. I am going to do this for 5 days. 

If it doesn't work I am going to break the tank down and dip the plants in flourish excel. Then set it up again. I don't know what else to do. For with all the ingredients I have in the soil I can't just take the plants out. Doing it in the past has caused fish to die.


----------



## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

dawntwister said:


> It has 1 65 dual daylight lamp and 1 actinic lamp.


If this is an USA Orbit Satellite light fixture, they are fantastic. When I ordered mine from Big Al's Online ages ago, I was able to have them let me return the actinic light for another dual daylight bulb.

I hope this is working out for you now.

Jimbo205


----------



## chagovatoloco (Nov 17, 2007)

When I was have in algae problem it way trying to do these extreme things with lights. Lets make it simple, The 65w and the 17w on for 6 hours. When things start growing an algae gets in line then may be start to lengthen you photo period. Gradually add a little more light, say an hour every two weeks. Then if you get up to a 8-9 hour photo period you can try with maybe a noon burst and when in doubt go back to the last step that worked. I have never seen the siesta period work to stop algae, I read about the idea but never seen it do any good.


----------



## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

This is the light fixture I have:









I bought it on EBay for $50, including shipping. It is 6 in shorter than my tank but I thought it was a good deal. Besides I have a lot of java fern that I can put in the shaded area. I found the fans quite loud. Did you Jimbo? I unplugged them and put a small desk lamp at the end.The daylight bulb is a 65 W compact 6,700k/10,000k . I believe it gives off photon ratios of blue 3, red 3, white 4. I wonder if the blue light influences algae growth, for told that the actinic light, which has only Blue photons, does.

For the past week I have been adding 5mm peroxide 2x a day and 2 mm of flourish excel 2x a day. If I didn't have val plants I would just dose with the flourish excel. Today I plan to take the plants out and spraying them, except vals, with flourish excel. Then replace the dirt with mineralized dirt. It is a drastic change but I am quite certain that the root start in the dirt is leaching something into the water column. I will top it off with the fluorite which is in the tank at present. Then planning to add diy Co2 with powerhead reactor.


----------



## chagovatoloco (Nov 17, 2007)

over 2wpg and DIY co2 will be hard to get stable, but not impossible.


----------



## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

chagovatoloco said:


> over 2wpg and DIY co2 will be hard to get stable, but not impossible.


I don't understand why you say this for most whom have over 2wpg have Diy Co2, please explain.


----------



## chagovatoloco (Nov 17, 2007)

Normally with higher light growth is accelerated and co2 is not a nice addition but a necessity. With higher light co2 needs to be more stable and consistent to avoid algae problems. With low light tanks , under 2wpg, co2 is not a need but can aid in growth so diy is great. There are some that are very good at DIY and can stabilize a high light tank with it, but that is very hard to do and easier and cheaper with pressurized. 2wpg is not low light, it is on the low end of high light but still high light.


----------



## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

Well, I can't afford pressurized Co2, thus I will have to try balancing the nutrients by adding potassium nitrate. If that doesn't work I will lower the lights and make due with the plants will grow in the low light. 

I saw at another forum a 20 gallon long tank that had 3 65 watt CFL bulbs. She used only diy Co2 and the growth of the plants, which I have, was great.


----------



## bgzbgz (Jul 6, 2007)

If it was me id hold off with adding more fertilizer. Hair algae is usually a result of too much nutrients in the water, and unfortunately I believe the dynamite fertilizer is not ideal for aquarium use and might be causing the algae. It is very high in nitrogen and phosphorous and also contains ammonia which is a known algae causer. 

Adding potassium nitrate would likely make the problem worse fast because your substrate already contains ammonia. Did you know that fish food/waste has alot of nitrogen and phosphorus? This is a great source of nutrients for plants and if you have a decent amount of fish, there is a good chance that this will supply most if not all of the nitrogen/phosphorous your plants need.

Once you have a massive amount of plants AND light AND co2 you will have alot more growth happening in your tank, and at this point the plants will have the potential to put extra ferts to good use. Otherwise you are just feeding the algae.


----------



## chagovatoloco (Nov 17, 2007)

dawntwister said:


> Well, I can't afford pressurized Co2, thus I will have to try balancing the nutrients by adding potassium nitrate. If that doesn't work I will lower the lights and make due with the plants will grow in the low light.
> 
> I saw at another forum a 20 gallon long tank that had 3 65 watt CFL bulbs. She used only diy Co2 and the growth of the plants, which I have, was great.


It is possible, just hard to do. And I'm sure the lights are not all on at the same time.


----------



## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

Well to try to eliminate substance that can cause algae growth, hair algae, I have torn down the tank. I put 2 seeded sponge filters in the tank and used old water from the tanks I have. I was exhausted, thus I left the plants floating in the tank. I can't replant the plants until next Wed. Hopefully adding Flourish will help keep the plants alive. After I replant the plants in mineralized soil I will be adding the Diy Co2. 

Strangely the algae attached mainly the Rotala Rotunda and then moved onto the Bacopa Carolina. The Hygro sunset had very little algae on it. I cut the stems with algae off and put them in a dark tank. Still I have a lot of good stems, which I spritzed with flourish excel. 

chagovatoloco I don't understand why you are so negative about Diy Co2. I see plenty, like hopppycalif, use it and have no problems. I did change the lights 65w and the 17w to be on for 6 hours.


----------



## chagovatoloco (Nov 17, 2007)

I have used it, and it has it's place. Hoppy does use it on some tanks and he had pressurized on others. Work with what you have, I did for a long time till I got pressurized.


----------

