# Kordon breather bags, looking for the facts



## SlyDer (Jul 11, 2007)

Id like to know what everyone els thinks about kordon breather bags. I think its pretty well mutual that there good for shipping, but ive stumbled on some websites that say things that go against what seems to me as being common fishkeeping sense.
For example,
i was reading that when you ship with these you should use as little water as possible so that there is more surface area for the oxygen co2 exchange. It seems to me like more water would still be benifit the livestock to help dilute waste aka ammonia.

also the same website said that you should never double bag to help prevent leaks b/c the gas exchange is unable to take place. To me these bags seem really fragile and prone to a leak. It goes on to state that if you must double bag the second bag should also be filled with water.

So in short:

Is it better so use as little water as possible opposed to more water to dilute waste

Should you risk a leaky bag, Double bag and risk suffication, or fill both bags with water and ship more weight?

What are your thoughts apc!


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## MartialTheory (Dec 20, 2007)

I remember reading about not double bagging them too. 

I never double bag mines when I ship them and never had a DOA. But then again I have been shiped some that where double baged but no DOA too. 

They leak but I think thats normal for these bags. I use wrap newspaper around it so if it leaks, it doesn't go uncontroled. 

I ship it with about 3/8th full of water to 5/8 full and never had a problem.


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## FobbyBobby23 (Mar 8, 2005)

i've never had a leaking problem with these bags. that is only an issue if you do a shoddy job of tying them (in my experience at least!)

these bags are also quite tough, try ripping them with your bare hands (well not really try to) but they are a lot tougher and more elastic and tolerant of stretching than your run of the mill plastic bag

also, i'm sure you can pretty much add as much water as the bag can handle, but it may not be good practice to do so since it adds weight to your package and if a leak did occur it could be much more catastrophic

it isn't going to decrease the surface area to volume ratio to the point that your livestock will suffocate, i'm pretty sure of this

individuals that ship with the traditional bags tend to use a minimal amount of water as well, since adding more water adds weight and that's not good for a fish to be tumbled around and smashed by the weight of all the water


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## SlyDer (Jul 11, 2007)

as far as weight goes i use flat rate boxes, i just wanted to get the facts, im glad others are using the same practices as i do. As far as double bagging id love to save a bag, these bags are fairly cheap and they do add to my costs. And since my hobby has to pretty much pay for its self "im just starting out on my own wedding house payment ect." thats a good thing.


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## NoSvOrAx (Nov 11, 2006)

You can buy an impulse sealer off ebay for under $20 bucks. I use one and none of my breather bags leak. I use these bags alot and I've had no losses. And don't double bag.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

The point of a Kordon breather bag is that they are gas permeable. If there is water inside, and air outside, the air can get into the water, but the water can't get out. I don't see any point in having any air space at all with those bags. But, I don't use them, I just did some experimenting with them. I do know I wouldn't double bag with them.


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## mikenas102 (Feb 8, 2006)

These bags are tougher than people give them credit for. Fill one up and tie a good knot in it. Now go outside and drop it on the sidewalk. It won't break. A long time ago there was a bad batch that were leaking from the bottom corner seams but those bags should long have been gone by now.
You can safely double bag them. I always do it and have never had a problem. Read the directions on the bag. They are there for a reason. If you tie a good knot they will not leak. I suspect if you have a problem with them leaking you need to tie better knots. You can't tie them with a rubber band like the LFS does with their cheapo bags.


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## ValorG (Dec 23, 2007)

What you say about more water being better for the fish isnt necessarily true. Most people will ship fish out after a 2 day fasting period to limit waste production. This is why some people say it is better to have more air than water in a 1:3 ratio. Also less weight = less shipping price.


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

ValorG said:


> What you say about more water being better for the fish isnt necessarily true. Most people will ship fish out after a 2 day fasting period to limit waste production. *This is why some people say it is better to have more air than water in a 1:3 ratio.* Also less weight = less shipping price.


While more air to water is usually the golden rule when shipping in regular bags; leaving any air inside a breather bag actually defeats the purpose.


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## gotcheaprice (Sep 4, 2007)

Hmm, I'll test out the breather bags this weekend. I'll put one double bagged with water and BTB(indicator) and pump it with co2 till yellow, and then tie it off etc, and see how it works. I'll also test a single bagged one. I shipped someone double bagged recently... Hope it comes out alright


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## mikenas102 (Feb 8, 2006)

It says right in the directions on the bags in several places DO NOT include air in the bags. The rare exception being when shipping certain air breathers such as some of the gouramis. It also says on the bagthat double bagging can be used.

Am I the only one that has breather bags with instructions on them?


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## SlyDer (Jul 11, 2007)

my bags only have the brand name, a little illustration a web site and a 1 800 number.
def. dont ship with air in the bags, the livestock will get banged around too much. unless its a betta or something. 

As far as fasting, all i ship is shrimp currently and its kinda hard to fast shrimp ;p they always find something to eat, in fact i dont think i could starve one if i tried.

As far as testing, i couldnt come up with a humane way of doing it within my abilitys.

as far as double bagging goes, everything i have shipped thus far, has been double bagged and have had no reported losses and ive shipped over 200+ shrimp. I dont if ive just been lucky but im going to start saving bags and using just one. Im working on some sealed styrofoam inserts for flat rate boxes that should help if theres a leak. atleast usps wont pull it off the shipping line.

p.s. sorry if my post looks like a 3rd grade child wrote it, im posting from my mobile phone =)


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## A_Shea (Jun 2, 2007)

any time i received any shrimp they were in one bag and they were perfect. no leaks or anything


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## NoSvOrAx (Nov 11, 2006)

I've been using these for awhile, as I recall when they were new they said you could double bag on the bag, and then they stopped saying that on the bags and I read on their website that you shouldn't double bag. I just checked their website again and now it says:



> For most smaller spiny fishes it is sufficient to multiple bag them, Breathing Bag within Breathing Bag, preferably with the inner bag wrapped in one or more layers of newspaper. There is a proportionate loss of breathability (up to approximately 50%) for one bag inside another, which will affect different animals differently. The user should experiment to find acceptable conditions for multiple bagging.


So I guess you can again, but your supposed to put newspaper inbetween. *shrug*
They also do suggest the use of a heat sealer.


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## ringram (Jan 10, 2005)

The Kordon bags are quite strong.
I've mailed shrimp probably 15-20 times at least and never had any leaks or DOAs. I even once tried to rip a hole in the bag or poke a hole with my finger. You'd be surprised at how much effort it takes to tear it! As for double-bagging, it probably doesn't matter too much, as I've always done it and haven't seen any problems. Others don't do it and it works out ok. I double-bag to prevent water leakage and/or keep that inner bag from getting punctured.
I'm not sure how much water most of you use -- one person said 3/8-1/2 full. I probably do more like 1/4-3/8 full. Shrimp don't really produce much waste, plus there won't be any food with them that could foul the water. That's the reason that most people ship a little moss or plant matter, as it can help absorb impurities and provide something the little shrimp can cling onto.

PAck your box tight --- newspaper, popcorn/styrafoam, whatever. Just make sure the bag isn't moving around at all. I tie two knots in the bag and then fold the end over and secure with a rubber band. 

I also saw someone mention a 3:1 ratio of air:water and I agree that a small amount of water is all that's needed. Why add unneeded shipping weight?

-Ryan


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## gotcheaprice (Sep 4, 2007)

What size bags does everyone use? I noticed that there are like 3 sizes on kensfish, so I bought the smallest, but it seems a bit small... I might buy the medium sized ones next time.


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## SlyDer (Jul 11, 2007)

i use the medium bags

as for weight i ship flat rate, weight isnt a problem up to 70 pounds ;p and i pack with lots and lots of paper shreds, so far shreds are free and work well.

after everyones input, as far as shrimp go you can pretty well do what you want. Breather bags are a+ for cushioning during travel and have a high success rate no matter how there used


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## gotcheaprice (Sep 4, 2007)

SlyDer said:


> i use the medium bags
> 
> as for weight i ship flat rate, weight isnt a problem up to 70 pounds ;p and i pack with lots and lots of paper shreds, so far shreds are free and work well.
> 
> after everyones input, as far as shrimp go you can pretty well do what you want. Breather bags are a+ for cushioning during travel and have a high success rate no matter how there used


Ah, so you ship flat rate. I ordered a bunch of the 7x7x6s since wood used those to ship shrimp, so I thought why not for plants and fish?

Aren't the flat rates pretty big though? More insulation price xD


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## SlyDer (Jul 11, 2007)

flat rate box is 8.95 unless its a big order i use priority ebay box #4.
I prefer it b.c. its so easy to just buy a shipping label from paypal, print, bag, box and ship. I ship every monday lately ive averaged 3 orders a week. 

anyhow to stay on topic i did a durability test with a few bags. I filled them about 1/3 full and knottd one and rubber banded one. 
First i packed them in a flateratebox with paper shreds and gave the boxes some abuse, kick them threw them around and stomped on them. The boxes were looking pretty bad and paper was falling out but the bags were unharmed.
Secondly I gave them a pressure test since someone once told me these packages sometimes go in the part of a plane that does not get compressed during flight. so i stacked hrdback books on them untill i got a leak. The knotted bag took alot of stress before one of the bottom corners blew out (i ran out of books so I physically smashed it). The rubber banded bag leaked around the band after 5 books. 5 hardback CAD drafting books is still alot of weight tho.

Lastly i tried tearing a bag (with my fingers) and poking a bag similar to a box getting crushed during shipping ( with folded cardboard and the edge of the crushed box from the pevious test). As far s shipping shrimp goes i no longer have any doubts in the durability of this bag. I defintly want to try out a heat sealer, my only doubtable leaks came from the rubber banded bag.

Considering the success i have had shipping shrimp with these bags i think there pretty flexible as far as how you want to use them. Maybe kordon will manufacture more of them before they become a rare commodity.


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## sayshrimp (Nov 5, 2007)

I use the small and they are great. Never had one break on me though.


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## fantasyfishaquatics (Aug 3, 2009)

Hey, dont wory either way about water to air ratio!!!
Always, use a bag buddy, especialy in a double bag.
you will find them cheap, and worth it for additional insurance of the fish.
Like 6.50 for 400 tablets.. use one for up to a gallon of water..
Double bag ? use one bag larger than the other. fill first, tie off good, place inside 2nd larger breather bag.. add water (takes little) until you see water around first bag inside..
air will transfer this way.. It does help keep the heart settled a little more, especialy on a 500 dollar fish.. ( Look out Ester !! Im having the big one ) syndrome stays much lower, LOLOL
More insurance ???? EXTREME !!!! use bigger box, large plastic bag that ingulfs the box.
line box with styrofoam.. place huge empty bag (Open of course) in it, with top outside and folded open.. place shreded news paper in large plastic bag, ( fluffy so plenty of air is air is in it ) place double bagged fishload in center,, cap with more shreded news paper,, tie off large bag, close box and tape.. Now take to back yard and UPS, AND Fedex Test.. Kick it around like a foot ball, drop it, role it, everything but stomp on it.. wait 3 days, then open it.. I think you will be plesantly suprised..
Oh, and insist on an e-mail, confirming recieval of package within 2 hours or void any guarantees, ask for receipt from postal service of delivery time. stand by this to the kilt.. also any Doa's must be photoed in unopen bag, then photoed with tail cut off , out of the bag, within reasonable length of time.. should also be shown or mentioned in e-mail within 2 hour of receival.. some fish are very expensive. inexpensive, do the same.. keeps every body honest..

Fantasy Fish Aquatics


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