# My first NPT attempt! (~4gal)



## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Hello everyone!

I saw the Walstad method for planted aquariums and got me very interested, so after reading about it for a while I decided to give it a go! Not everything went as I hoped, I had a few problems so I'd like to share some thoughts and ask some questions.

So, my setup is the following:

*Tank:* about 15liters (4 gallons), 30*22*22cm (12*8,5*8,5inches) approximately. Temperature 26C (79F) because my betta is going to live here.

*Substrate: *
Sifted potting soil, layer's thickness about 2cm (1inch) at the front, twice as much in the back (approx 4cm). Topped this with 1cm of fine gravel (granularity around 1mm) same thickness everywhere. I did this as I saw many aquascapers do it and say it will give a better perspective to the tank. I regret this now, because: a) this is going to be redundant for my tank due to plant density and more important b) I read there is a danger of the substrate becoming anaerobic. I haven't had any indications as far as I can understand so far, but some poking with a paperclip is in order I think...

*Carpet:* Marsilea crenata
I have made a DIY CO2 supply (sugar+yeast) to help this grow in the beginning. I'll see if I'll keep this or not.

*Midzone:*
2 Anubias nana on a rock, 5-6 cryptocoryne wendtii, 1 Bucephalandra sp. 'Red' on a driftwood. Waiting in the quarantine tank are my two marimos with the betta and the amano.

*Rear:*
Limnophila sessiliflora (growing well) and Ludwigia palustris (mostly melting, only one stem succeeded, I cut and replanted those that gave new small leaves)

*Surface:*
Salvinia auriculata. Some are full sized, some are smaller. Very impressive in such a small tank, even though I don't really like the "adults" with the dark roots that much, I ended up pushing them to the rear.

*Light:*
Desk lamp with a led light bulb, 5-6cm (2 inches) above the cover (clear plexiglass). Current led bulb is 5,4W 5000K 600lm (ikea Ryet). I had a 7W 6500K led 560lm bulb, but I prefer the 5000K's color. The room has bright daylight for a few hours, not hitting the tank directly, but "overshadowing" the desk lamp during those hours. The light schedule is 7hours, on 2h off and 5h on. The sunlight that I mentioned enters the room for a couple of hours during the morning 7h period.

*History:*
I planted 12 days ago (pic 1), initial measurements were good two days later. Around day 5 I started getting algae and melting of the Ludwigia Palustris (pics 2, 3). Measured high NO2, above 1mg/L and unpleasant smell. Lowered the water level so the plants could have their tops emersed and get the extra CO2 from the air. No good, algae increasing and smell remaining. I got advised to increase the plant load* and do many water changes in order to remove the extra nutrients from the water column. That meant daily 50% water change for a week, every two days for the second week, every three during the third week etc until balance is achieved. Well I did >70% during the first 5 days and 50% until now. The result is good so far, algae is in check but this feels like overkill. Let alone having to do it in a large tank, not a small one like mine&#8230;

*that's when I bought a second pot of Limnophilla, the Salvinias, tha anubias, the buchephalandra and the carpet plant. Earlier than I planned, but did it anyway...

*Questions/discussion:*

_1) Possible substrate problems._
I do not have indications that I can tell of about the substrate becoming anaerobic. At the rear where the slope begins, I have planted the row of cryptocorynes and behind them the Limnophila sessiliflora. The idea is to form (in time) a green wall that hides the heater and in front of it have lower green plants of darker tonality. I tested Limnophilla in a bowl and saw they form good roots. These cryptocorynes before the tank reset had roots all over. Is it possible that this substrate will have problems turning anaerobic? Any ideas to prevent this? Is the rock or the driftwood (pic 4) likely to cause substrate problems? The rock is almost twice the size of the betta.

_2) Algae_
I noticed that now only the half melted stems are those that have algae. Limnophilla, cryptocorynes and the single healthy Ludwigia stem do not have signs of algae any more. A soft brown form of algae started to form on the anubias leaves. I rubbed it softly with my finger and it dissolved yesterday, but started returning today. Does my setup look ok regarding plant and nutrient balance? Is it possible that I have too much light or nutrients? Maybe remove the DIY CO2?

_3) NO2, NO3._
I still have detectable levels of NO2, around 0,30mg/L now. NO3 30-40mg/L. I would introduce the amano to help with the algae, but I am afraid of the NO2. Anything I could do here to help bacteria grow? I tried sera nitrivec, but I am not sure if it did anything&#8230; How important is the role of the nitrifying bacteria that form on surfaces in comparison to the plants?

_4) water changes._
The frequency of water changes to remove excessive nutrients in combination with the large volume sounds too much. What would happen if this was a large tank, like 100gallons? Additionally, is it possible that these water changes prevent nitrifying bacteria from colonizing?

If you have read this far thank you very much for your interest and your patience! I hope I made everything clear, English is not my mother language, so if you don't understand something I wrote feel free to ask.

Thank you in advance!


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## zolteeC (Dec 26, 2017)

Your soil depth is reasonable. Typical recommendation is 1", 2.5 cm. You have 2 cm in front and 4 cm in back which is not too far from the recommendation. You also have larger plants with good root system in the back (cryptos). Typical cover recommendation is also 1", you put a bit less than that. On the other hand, you dont have fish that are digging too much.

If you want to "aquascape" and have slopes, you can put some inert material below the soil that fills in the space. 

CO2 dosing from the beginning may have some additional risks. Soil after submergence can release lots of CO2 in the beginning making additional CO2 dosing a bit riskier. Also dosing DIY CO2 in such a small water volume is not a life insurance for shrimps (if you put in later) etc. I have such small tanks and plants like crypto etc grew very well without adding CO2 for me.

Your NO2 is crazy high, if your readings are correct. If you bought the soil from a shop, can you check if it contains artificial fertilizers? For example nitrate in the soil can introduce nitrite in the water column (i.e. nitrate respiration happening in the soil).

If plants grow well, over time tank will likely stabilize, but this level of nitrite is not OK for animals. (Also the tank is a bit small.)

If I got right your light is on for 2 hours, then off for a while and 5 hours on again. Maybe it would be better to increase the duration of the first on period from 2 hours to say 4-5. 600 lumen for 15 liters is plenty, if all light entered the tank you would have 40 lumen/liter.

Water changes: you may need more of them in the beginning and later on you can reduce the frequency significantly. I have more than 100 gal tank and it was not a hassle, luckily my soil does not have this nitrite issue and my setups are habitable nearly from the beginning.

If you have larger stones, generally it is better not to put soil underneath. I had a tank where I put soil under some rocks, it was not a disaster, but who knows.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Hello zolteeC, thanks for your reply!

First of all, I'm sorry for the typo, I meant to type *0,*30mg/L for NO2, just corrected it! The measurements are made with a 6in1 tetra strip, using the Tetra mobile app. You take a snapshot of the strip before dipping, and 60 secs after. That's where the decimal numbers come from. Hopefully the measurement error is not very high. Today I got 0.63mg/L NO2 and 29mg/L NO3. I guess it is still unsafe for livestock if I am to wait until zero NO2...

Thanks for reassuring me about the substrate. I was worried both for the rear as well as for beneath the rock and driftwood which cover a relatively large surface. I'll keep in mind the advice about the inert material, I saw someone use random rocks, but decided not to go that way. Maybe I will when I make a larger tank.

The light is on mostly during the morning hours, because I work during the evenings. It goes like 7on-2off-5on. I calculated the 2h siesta to be during a timeframe that it has gone a bit darker outside, so the plants can go to sleep for a while 

As for the CO2, the measurements the kit gives me are between 4-8mg/L. That includes some morning measurements before the lights go on. If this is reasonable for my setup I can leave it there. I don't have a dropchecker or anything really accurate to measure, I'm just believing what results the Tetra app gives me...


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

First, thank you for presenting your tank's situation in such a clear manner--photos, parameters, etc. (If only our English-first-language hobbyists could be so literate!)

I think the tank looks nice. Some plants are growing; others aren't. This is expected.

I assume that this tank was recently set up, such that the high nitrates (NO3-) are from the soil leachings not nitrification. To get such high nitrate readings (29 mg/l), the soil was fertilized with nitrates. Unsurprisingly, soil bacteria are converting some of them to toxic nitrites (NO2-) in the very common soil bacterial process of nitrate respiration (my book, p. 65) 

Eventually, the nitrates will leach out of this soil. It shouldn't take that long. A couple weeks? Nitrates and nitrites with their negative charge don't stick to soil particles so they will leach out of the soil and into the water. They don't hurt the plants, so you can just change water at your leisure.

In the interests of your tank's health, I would pull out either the rock or the driftwood. I would opt for the driftwood, since wood sometimes rots at the bottom and causes problems. (I also think that the tank would be visually more attractive with one focal point, rather than two competing ones.) If you remove driftwood, make sure to put some plants in the vacant space. 

You could also push the rock downwards so that it touches the bottom glass rather than covers the soil layer.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Diana, thank you very much for your kind words! And for your patience to read my long post!

The tank was indeed recently set up after being a standard filtered tank for 7+ years. Emptied the livestock and plants, moved the fish, shrimp and snail to a QT and started this almost two weeks ago. I used some of the old gravel (wet all the way through the procedure), so maybe some microorganisms might have survived the transfer? Regarding fertilization, I admit that I dosed it with tropica “plant growth premium fertilizer” a few times during its early days, which in combination with the diy CO2 could have started the algae issue I described in the first post. I stopped the fertilizing now, letting things work out on their own... I also used some sera nitrivec in order to jump start the bacteria colonization during the first week. I hope it didn't have any adverse effects...

I was planning to read the Substrate chapter of your book, I’ll read the Bacteria right after that, thanks for pointing it out.

I was thinking of removing the rock, as it is rather disproportionate with its surroundings and has a larger bottom surface. Both the driftwood and the rock are homes of the Anubias and the Buchephalandra, so I’ll need to reattach them either way… Didn’t know that there was a possibility of the driftwood rotting. I;ll pick it up and check from time to time.

As for pushing the rock down, I don’t think it would work, due to its shape and size. I’ll give it a try anyway…

Regarding livestock introduction, should I wait for the NO2 to drop to zero, or is it unnecessary?

Thanks again!


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## zolteeC (Dec 26, 2017)

zahtar said:


> Diana, thank you very much for your kind words! And for your patience to read my long post!
> 
> The tank was indeed recently set up after being a standard filtered tank for 7+ years. Emptied the livestock and plants, moved the fish, shrimp and snail to a QT and started this almost two weeks ago. I used some of the old gravel (wet all the way through the procedure), so maybe some microorganisms might have survived the transfer? Regarding fertilization, I admit that I dosed it with tropica "plant growth premium fertilizer" a few times during its early days, which in combination with the diy CO2 could have started the algae issue I described in the first post. I stopped the fertilizing now, letting things work out on their own... I also used some sera nitrivec in order to jump start the bacteria colonization during the first week. I hope it didn't have any adverse effects...
> 
> ...


You really have to wait until the NO2 goes (very close) down to zero and stabilizes. It may happen faster than you think. If you have the book, go to page 22. There are some numbers for nitrite toxicity.

Liquid ferts was really not a good idea in this stage of the tank. Even without ferts you probably have tons of nutrients both in the water column and in the substrate. Over time, if you have lots of floating plants etc, there may be a need for dosing a bit of K and micro (Fe) (but other factors influence this: feeding, changed water nutrient content etc).

There is one thing that is important with NPTs: pretty much forget everything that you learned with other methods. Most of those things are either counter-productive or just unnecessary.

I would definitely put that DIY CO2 away. At this stage, there is really no need for it. Especially not in 15 liters, where it is very difficult to maintain a reasonable level with a DIY (sugar, yeast) setup. Later, when you put shrimp in, they will thank you for this.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

ZolteeC, thank you very much for pointing this part of the book to me! Skimming and scanning may help sometimes, but I hadn't read that one. And it gave me good news, because it is mentioned that "_Nitrite is more toxic at low pH, because&#8230; Also nitrite's toxicity declines sharply with increasing salt (NaCl)_".

I have pH around 8 and high kH. So that's good news #1. I also have moderately hard water, GH around 10. This probably includes all types of salt not just NaCl, but it makes me hope!

On second thought, I'll post a table with the measurements I've taken after setup (17/10). I can't remember when I dosed with liquid fertilizer (maybe 1st-2nd day?), but the nasty smell was around 22-23Oct.


```
CO2 	Cl2	PH	KH	GH	 NO2	NO3
19/10/19	8	0	7,8	18	8	 0,17	14
21/10/19	14	0	7,6	17	10	 0,04	31
22/10/19	8	0	7,8	15	10	 1,04	37
23/10/19	7	0	7,9	20	9	 1,86	57
25/10/19	5	0	8,1	>20	10	 0,47	31
25/10/19	8	0	7,9	19	10	 0,29	32
26/10/19	4	0	8,1	18	11	 0,31	33
27/10/19	6	0	8	>20	11	 0,69	45
29/10/19	6	0	7,9	16	10	 0,63	29
30/10/19	5	0	8,2	>20	10	 0,40	26
-
Tap 30/10	2	0	8,6	>20	9	 0,06	38
```
all in mg/L

The two measurements on 25/10 were taken during the evening, probably before and after a water change. That must have been a large one, maybe >70%.

Last night I did a 50% water change, and today's measurements were done in the morning before turning on the aquarium light.

I included a test I just did under running tap water. That's where some nitrates might come from! Weird thing is that the measurement of Cl2 gave zero. I definitely didn't expect that. Could it indicate incredibility of the strip test Cl2-wise? Need to check on that...

Already put the CO2 airstone away last night, because I saw algae form on its bottom. Not what I want in my tank


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

VERY interesting: Excess nitrates in tapwater. (Good you measured it so we just don't blame it on soil.)

In USA, maximum allowable nitrates in drinking water (EPA standards) are 10 ppm NO3-N, which is 44.3 ppm nitrate, which is what you are probably measuring. (Conversion chart in my book on page 187.)

Regulations are strict, because excess nitrates in drinking water can be fatal for babies:

*Blue baby syndrome* can also be caused by nitrates in drinking water leading to methemoglobinemia. Nitrates from polluted drinking water form compounds in the body that change haemoglobin to methemoglobin, decreasing the ability of blood to carry oxygen. In infants, the condition can be fatal.(_from Wikipedia_)

In your aquarium situation, I'm not sure what to say. With that much nitrates in water, water changes are less helpful. It is possible that plants will take up the nitrites (my book, pp. 22-23). Also, bacteria might start processing the nitrites. Adding salt to water will also help as chloride competes with nitrite for uptake and thus reduces the toxicity.


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## zolteeC (Dec 26, 2017)

dwalstad said:


> VERY interesting: Excess nitrates in tapwater. (Good you measured it so we just don't blame it on soil.)
> 
> In USA, maximum allowable nitrates in drinking water (EPA standards) are 10 ppm NO3-N, which is 44.3 ppm nitrate, which is what you are probably measuring. (Conversion chart in my book on page 187.)
> 
> ...


It is also interesting that KH is so high, much higher than GH. Can it be that there is Sodium or Potassium bicarbonate in this water? pH is interestingly also very high.

Is this water from the tap or is it from a wheel? Do you have any water treatment (i.e ion exchange or any chemical added against calcium deposits?)

If it is from the tap, it is worth checking if your water supplier provides any chemical analysis on what they provide you exactly. In many countries the water supplier publishes water quality data on the internet.
There is a chance that your test kits don't work properly for whatever reason, so double checking probably worth the effort...


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

*Diana,* according to an informal source, (a shop of scientific supplies linked below) max nitrates in Greece are set to 50mg/lt (couldn't find anything official). So the tap water giving a result of 38mg/lt is high, but within regulations.

I'll try removing the driftwood and the rock, as these are the least helping contents in my tank and see how it goes. I have the impression that the bad smell occurred after introducing the driftwood. I had boiled it for 2 hours, but then again we never know&#8230; I have two Anubias Nana and a Bucephalandra which will need anchoring, so regarding introducing random rocks to the aquarium, *does the Hydrochloric acid test on the rocks suffice?* I mean letting a drop of acid on the rock and seeing if it fizzes.

*ZolteeC,* the pH has been that high for a very long time, but my betta, amanos and nerite have lived over a year without problems. I don't know about Sodium or Potassium bicarbonate in the water. Is there an easy way to find out? The water I tested was from a running tap, I just put the strip in the flow. No treatments, no carbon filter etc on that tap. I used the tap where I fill the bucket to treat the fresh aquarium water.

I'll check on the chemical analysis that you mention. I tested with another brand's test stripts (namely JBL) and the results came out the same. I don't have liquid water test, but maybe I could go to the local pet store with a water sample and ask for a favour...

_References: (you may try google translate and be kind with it's output...)_
https://www.scienceshop.gr/product.php?id=2033

https://translate.google.com/transl...ttps://www.scienceshop.gr/product.php?id=2033


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

zahtar said:


> I have two Anubias Nana and a Bucephalandra which will need anchoring, so regarding introducing random rocks to the aquarium, *does the Hydrochloric acid test on the rocks suffice?* I mean letting a drop of acid on the rock and seeing if it fizzes.


I think the HCl test on the rock should suffice. Honestly, I would not worry about the rock as much as the driftwood rotting away. If the rock contains calcium, it is not that big a deal.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

I had the impression that CaCO3 (or many other salts) could dissolve and give acids that would lower the pH. On the other hand my pH is already quite high, so that might not be so much of a problem…

Regarding the driftwood you were 100% correct. Last night, I took it out of the tank and its bottom smelled like sewage! Now it will find its last place in the fireplace around Christmas… I also removed the rock and did a lot of substrate poking. Quite a few bubbles released. I wouldn’t say few, but not too many either. Then I did a 75% water change. Today morning I got: 24NO3, 0.04NO2, 8.2pH and the others as usual. So that means the driftwood was causing problems all along.

Both the driftwood and the rock are outside the tank now. I’ll test the rock with HCl in the weekend and see if it was guilty of salt releasing too! In the meantime the Bucephalandra is sitting on a lava rock, and I am testing random rocks to find a new seat for the anubias. A very unexpected result is a black stone my dad had picked up by a seashore. It is supposed to be incompatible with freshwater, but it does not fizz with HCl at all. Very interesting, especially because I think it will look good in my tanks environment...

I am thinking of introducing shrimp on Monday. Since measurements got that better overnight, is it reasonable to expect that the tank is closer to reaching balance? I’ll need to keep testing parameters of course…


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

zahtar said:


> Regarding the driftwood you were 100% correct. Last night, I took it out of the tank and its bottom smelled like sewage! Now it will find its last place in the fireplace around Christmas&#8230;


Into the fireplace.... Had a good laugh.

It sounds like your tank should be fine by Monday. Bravo!

A few notes: CaCO3 will raise the pH not lower it. I'm not sure there are that many rocks that have CaCO3--chalky stuff. Calcium is harmless and is an important, often neglected major plant nutrient.

I've always used lava rocks with good results. They have little pores that the Anubias rhizomes seem to dig into.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

A lava rock is exactly what I was thinking of! I hope I will have space left, as I am planning to add another plant, an Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini'. Removing the rock opened a perfect position for a low-medium red plant. Is there any experience with it in an NPT?

I hope it adapts to my aquarium, but I read that it prefers pH 5-7 like Ludwigia Palustris. Ludwigia P. doesn’t do well in my tank so far (maybe becasuse I’ve got 7,5-8pH and high kH).


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

You may just have to try different species. Red tiger lotus?

I had good initial luck with _Rotala macrandra_ and _R. rotundifolia_. In the first few months, the soil provided enough CO2 for these plants. Other stem plants didn't do as well.

Hard water with all its extra nutrients (calcium, potassium, magnesium, etc) should not hurt red stem plants; I found hard, alkaline water to actually be better than softwater for _Ludwigia repens_ (my book, page 117). What these plants need is high light and iron for red color; copious free CO2 for survival.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Thank you for your suggestions! Rotala macrandra looks really good, but the first google results mention that is is a very demanding plant, just like the webpage of the store I am ordering from. I’ll look them all up in detail, especially those that can fit in my tank (it is small, 30*20cm or 8*12inches).

I was very enthusiastic that Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini' fit the profile I am looking for (small red stem plant for the front or midzone) so I already ordered it. I’ll know tomorrow if it was the right choice. 

What you mention about hard alkaline water is very reassuring! I don’t know about the iron in my tank’s water, but I can definitely get a stronger light bulb. Right now, I put again the 7W 560lm led light (6500K) because I see “leggy growth” on Limnophila sessiliflora, so I think maybe I should provide a little more light for the plants, or remove a few floating plants...


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

dwalstad said:


> What these plants need is high light and iron for red color; copious free CO2 for survival.


Is there an easy way to test for iron levels?


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## MistyPhi (Oct 30, 2019)

Your tank looks amazing zahtar, I especially love that big fuzzy plant, I'm assuming it's the Limnophila sessiliflora. I looked it up and we can actually get that down here so I shall try to find some. 

The water wisteria I have is a little on the large side, both in height and leaf size, for such a small tank, not to mention the fact that it's growing out of the top and threatening to escape. I shall probably replace it entirely one day but for now if it is growing well then it's doing a good job so I will let it do it's work.

The little round leaved plants you have at the front look great too but I'm guessing those are the Marsilea crenata and you are supplying CO2? I don't want to get into any of that unless I really, really have to. Simplicity is my motto in this endeavor, keep it simple and let the tank direct my progress, I'm hoping that doesn't turn out to be another fine example of my ignorance and naivety.

The Salvinia auriculata looks wonderful also but we can't get that here, in fact we don't really get any surface growing plants to my knowledge thus far. Fortunately duckweed is a persistent little beggar and it comes in on the other plants they import, the LFS was only to happy to get rid of a little to satisfy my eagerness. Of course it's a nasty weed and I have to be very careful that I don't rinse any of it down my sink, everything gets washed at an outside tap. I don't know if it'd survive the septic tank but it seems hardy enough and if it got into the local creek then I'm sure there'd be a heavy knock at my door.
If you post more tank pictures could you perhaps do one which shows how this grows on the surface, I'd love to see it.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

zahtar said:


> What you mention about hard alkaline water is very reassuring! I don't know about the iron in my tank's water, but I can definitely get a stronger light bulb. Right now, I put again the 7W 560lm led light (6500K) because I see "leggy growth" on Limnophila sessiliflora, so I think maybe I should provide a little more light for the plants, or remove a few floating plants...


At this stage, I'm not sure that I would make any major changes. You have a very nice little tank. No need to ruin it. 

Soil is probably releasing some iron. Later on, if your floating plants start yellowing and dying, you could add iron or a micronutrient fertilizer. However if by then, you've got a lot of fish and are feeding them well, you shouldn't need to add a thing.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

*MistyPhi*, thank you very much for your kind words! The fuzzy plant you mention is indeed the Limnophila sessiliflora. I expected it to grow more dense than tall so it would form a thick green wall, but maybe it will happen in time after pruning and giving side shoots.

Regarding the water wisteria growing emergent, that's not a bad thing at all! According to Diana's book (chapter IX, The Aerial Advantage, pages 144-146), having some plants break the water surface is an advantage, because they become more efficient absorbing CO2 (from the atmosphere in such case) and light. So as you said, let it do it's work 

The low plant in front is Marsilea Crenata indeed, I expect it to form a carpet eventually. I am not supplying CO2 at the moment, I did for a week or so, but probably that was what led to algae growth, so I have removed the airstone and keep it in my test vase now. My approach is the same as yours, simplicity and see how it goes! I just want it to have the look I intended to, or at least something close to that.

The salvinia auriculata is probably what saved the tank from algae around day7, so I am grateful for it! Larger that what I expected, but welcome nonetheless. I didn't understand what you mean about the pictures, but I'd be happy to try and take some to show what you want to see, so let me know what that is.

*Diana*, you've got a point, better enjoy it than keep messing with it, so after I plant the Alternanthera, I'll stop changing layouts etc. I'll just complete stage 2, livestock! I already introduced 3 red cherry shrimps and a nerite snail, all being happy so far. One more RCS remaining (the male) and the two amanos.

The floating plants are doing fine, the only one not showing apparent growth is the carpet, but I should be taking daily pics to be sure, which I am not&#8230; Little yellowing though, most marsilea leaves have vibrant green colour. Mentioning lot of fish, I like the idea of ember tetras! I think I'll wait for a month or so to see how the shrimps and plants do. I remember reading in your book that fish food is the fertilizer (or in my case probably the shrimp food) so I think I get the idea!


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## MistyPhi (Oct 30, 2019)

I found an image on reddit but thanks. I thought it would be like a miniature lilly pad but it isn't what I was expecting. 

Nicer than duckweed still though.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Being larger has its advantages. You can move it around a lot easier that smaller floating plants. I pick some with a spoon and move them easily between the backup tank, the planted bowl and the planted tank. I don't need to use fishnets as I would if it was smaller. The picture attached is of a plant that I believe to be fully grown, in comparison to a typical HB pencil. I hope this helps to form an impression on how big it grows and how it propagates.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Nice picture of_ Salvinia auriculata_.

I am having very good luck with _Salvinia minima_. Photo shows it in my 1 gal shrimp bowl along with _Azolla caroliniana_ (red brown fall color). It is growing well, along with several other floating plants, in my guppy tanks.

Floating plants are wonderful for algae control!


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

I got some _Salvinia minima_ for my tank as well, and it has been such a good grower, besides looking great. The colors on that Azolla are amazing!! Would that I could find some in my area...I've heard rumors of wild plants nearby but haven't had the chance to investigate.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

dwalstad said:


> Nice picture of_ Salvinia auriculata_.


Thank you! I try to make posts equally useful to the information and advice I get here 

_Salvinia minima_ looks really good! I'd say it's closer to what I wanted for my tank than auriculata, which due to size would better fit a larger tank. Nonetheless, it helped with my algae problem I faced during the first week so, I don't complain.

*Regarding pruning a stem plant*, namely Limnophilla sessiliphlora, is there a way to make it grow *thicker/bushier than taller*? Or is it just a matter of replanting the tops I cut off? I won't have enough space if I go that route I am afraid...

*jatcar95*, I'd be interested to know the maximum size this plant grows to, meaning the diameter of the floating leaves and the root length as well. If you have one that looks much older than the rest (I mean fully grown) could you give an estimate of its size?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

jatcar95 said:


> I got some _Salvinia minima_ for my tank as well, and it has been such a good grower, besides looking great. The colors on that Azolla are amazing!! Would that I could find some in my area...I've heard rumors of wild plants nearby but haven't had the chance to investigate.


I got my _Azolla caroliniana_ recently from a farm pond nearby in central North Carolina (Piedmont area). It covered the water. Photo. Apparently, this species only turns red/brown in the fall. I shall have to see how it does in the shrimp bowls!


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

zahtar, do you mean the salvinia? I'd say the diameter is about 1cm max. The roots will drop down a few centimeters, maybe 2-3? I don't have a specific picture of it in my tank, but you can see the roots hanging down from the top in this pic.









And it grows so fast! I have to keep removing some as it quickly starts shading out the other plants. The shrimp and snails love hanging out in the roots as well.


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## MistyPhi (Oct 30, 2019)

Thank you for the image zahtar, it looks a nice plant.

Oddly enough whilst I was walking the dog the other day, scoping out areas I might procure a couple of shrimp, I noticed some floating plants. I figured they were native at first but researching them they turned out to be Azolla. I brought a handful home, washed it a half dozen times, bathed it in a bleach solution, washed it again a few more times and right now it's sitting in my window sill. It's been there for a couple of days so I may add it to the tank today. It has the advantage of being bigger than the duckweed and so more easy to handle I hope. Diana's pictures above give me something to look forward to if it may perhaps go red in Autumn.
I am envious of all the top growing plant choices you all have but hey, you work with what you've got right, isn't that the natural part 

I also found some Limnophila sessiliflora in my LFS so I have that and another couple of smaller plants added making it far more densely packed, especially with all the growth I'm getting. 

I began growing some brown algae too but all algae growth has now stopped and I can visbly watch my rapidly growing snails cleaning it all up. I have read that they can turn to the plants for dinner if there is no algae so I may cull a few when that times arrives. I'd post a picture of the tank but I don't know the ettiquette on the boards yet and I don't want to intrude on your thread.

That said, jatcar95 if you should happen to read this, the small plant you have front right, what is that one?


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Very interesting about Azolla caroliniana changing colors throughout seasons! It will be original for the seasons change to reflect in a bowl or tank!

jatcar95, yes it’s salvinia minima I meant. That's exactly the info I was looking about, thanks! And they look really nice in your tank!

MistyPhi, really cool to find extra plants during your walk! I hope they turn out nice! Regarding the snails turning to the plants for dinner, I don’t know under what occasions this might occur, but I’ve read it makes a difference having hardy plants. The one you ask about in jatcar’s pic, is probably the cryptocoryne wendtii (I have a similar plant), or if you mean the carpet plant, it looks like monte carlo. Won’t bet on it though… If you are interested in red plants, keep in mind the Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini' (or not mini, depending on your tank). It was very easy to work with, and looks good in front of the Limnophilla sessiliflora. I’ll post some pics later, when I get some shots I have in mind.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

dwalstad said:


> Nice picture of_ Salvinia auriculata_.
> 
> .....
> 
> Floating plants are wonderful for algae control!


Floating plants block some of the light, which could stop algae growth. And, they use up nutrients that are in the water, which could also stop algae growth. Which is most likely to be the reason they work so well? If it is nutrients, would it be because it removes the iron supply that algae need?

I'm always trying to learn more


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## terryna (Mar 16, 2018)

dwalstad said:


> First, thank you for presenting your tank's situation in such a clear manner--photos, parameters, etc. (If only our English-first-language hobbyists could be so literate!)
> 
> I think the tank looks nice. Some plants are growing; others aren't. This is expected.
> 
> ...


Nice


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## MistyPhi (Oct 30, 2019)

Thanks zahtar. I thought the plant was Monte Carlo, some of which I bought myself the other day only to find out after reading these forums that it's difficult to grow without CO2. Knowing very little though I just have to buy what I can and see how it goes, if the Monte Carlo doesn't do well then I guess it will have to be removed.

I shall look out for Alternanthera reineckii at my LFS but to be honest I didn't see any red plants in there at all. The Rotala I have should turn red if everything is perfect for it I believe, it currently has a red tinge but whether my conditions provide it with the ideal environment will remain to be seen. To be honest after I read about it I thought it'd be dead by now but it seems to be doing much better than dead so far.

I shall observe my snails closely, I'd prefer not to cull rather letting nature have her way but if they do turn to plant consumption then they will have to be reduced in number.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

Wow, zahtar totally nailed the crypt. _Cryptocoryne Wendtii Red_. The carpet plant in front of it is actually dwarf baby tears (_Hemianthus callitrichoides_), which I think is slightly different from monte carlo. It's doing the worst of my carpet plants - the others are all starting to propagate.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

hehe, my variant is Wendtii either brown or red, but looks more like poor unsaturated dark green... Thing is if you plant it, it will be forever! When I emptied the previous setup to make the current NPT, I found Cryptocorynes roots all over the bottom of the tank, below the gravel. Once it roots, it will be premanent. Don't even think of pulling it!

Regarding _Hemianthus callitrichoides_ (aka cuba) I wanted to try it but it needs a lot of light and CO2, so it is really hard to grow submerged in a low tech tank. An alternative according to Diana is the "dry start method" which you can learn about here: https://dianawalstad.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/shrimprcs2017.pdf

Monte Carlo is said to be easier to grow in low tech NPTs, less light and CO2, but grows taller which I don't prefer. I went the road between, Marsilea Crenata, so I am waiting now... Can't see growth, but they are healthy. Perhaps I should be taking pics every now and then...


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## zolteeC (Dec 26, 2017)

zahtar said:


> Regarding _Hemianthus callitrichoides_ (aka cuba) I wanted to try it but it needs a lot of light and CO2, so it is really hard to grow submerged in a low tech tank. An alternative according to Diana is the "dry start method" which you can learn about here: https://dianawalstad.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/shrimprcs2017.pdf


My motivation was the above mentioned PDF document. I was thinking the same before I actually tried it. I used _Hemianthus callitrichoides_ from a well known supplier in Europe. The plants come in a small plastic box which contains some short of growing medium. The growing medium supposed to be washed off before planting, which I did not do.

After planting it looked like this:










After 45 days it looks like this:










No DSM. Water was hazy for the first 35 days or so. I used larger diameter gravel than usual for cap and the cap height was smaller than normally recommended. (around 2 cm) Maybe the growing medium (which I forgot to remove) and the fresh yard dirt provided plenty of CO2 so that DSM was not needed?

I have 35 lumen/liter LED. I mixed my extremely hard tap water with rain water.

Anyway, I definitely see that Hemianthus callitrichoides is not the best choice for a beginner who attempts her/his first NPT and I guess for first try crypts, bacopa, valisneria, saggitaria, rotala etc are much better and safer choice._ I am still unsure how my Hemianthus callitrichoides tank will "work" in the long run, but so far it has been an easy ride._


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

I have the same lumen/liter ratio and 6500K 7W led, so this is VERY interesting but I can't see the pics!


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## zolteeC (Dec 26, 2017)

zahtar said:


> I have the same lumen/liter ratio and 6500K 7W led, so this is VERY interesting but I can't see the pics!


Try refresh, I used wrong "tag".


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Still not visible. I'll be leaving for work in a while, so take your time, I'll check it later. Thanks!


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## zolteeC (Dec 26, 2017)

zahtar said:


> Still not visible. I'll be leaving for work in a while, so take your time, I'll check it later. Thanks!


I uploaded the images differently. Unfortunately it looks like the forum scaled them down and lost resolution.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Thanks zolteeC, it looks very nice, therefore promising! Regarding uploading pictures, I always downscale them to 800px wide, I think I read some user rule regarding that, but could be totally wrong.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My aquarium is now getting close to becoming *4weeks old*. I thought it would be nice to post an update on its status and some general thoughts. This post will be about the things I have learned during this time and some future plans/thoughts/questions. Of course I'll post some pictures I've taken too. Starting from bottom up, just like the initial post;

Lessons learned:

*1) Substrate is not just a nutrient buffer*

The substrate in a NPT has a very active role. It supplies (and gives off) nutrients at a varying rate. If the aquarium plants are not able to absorb those nutrients at a similar rate, algae problems might occur. I believe plants to absorb nutrients in a rate proportional to their growing rate. It is said that one should plant a lot of fast growers in order to prevent problems with large nutrient release during the early tank days. After they eventually empty the soil from nutrients, I think I've read that they will take everything they need from dead organic matter decomposition. So here comes the question: _If someone mixed the soil with inert material during setup, there would not be such a large quantity of nutrients released. Plants, especially slow growers would be able to grow as meant, while fast growers might come fast to the point of nutrient deprived soil. If livestock is introduced in the meantime, they will "fertilize" the gravel/sand so that would tend to bring things to balance regarding plant needs. Does this sound like a viable plan?_ Yes I am actually thinking of making the soil poor from the beginning (or at least faster).

*2) Choose a cap (sand/gravel) whose looks you like (color and size)*

If you use a carpet plant, it might take some time for it to spread around (unless you buy and plant a lot of it right from the beginning). In the meantime, it will mostly be the gravel/sand you'll be looking at. If you don't use a carpet plant, that's what your foreground will look like.

*3) Stem plants grow either tall or bushy, according to various factors.*

These are probably light and CO2 if I am not mistaken. A low tech NPT might have low CO2 concentration, so one factor is not in favor to grow bushy. Regarding light, it is affected but other plants, especially floating plants. You can keep them in check with a floating water trap though. The question is: _Is it possible to influence the way a stem plant grows by a certain pruning method? How effective could that be?_

*4) Planting stem plants is easy if you strip 2-3cm of leaves and plant.*

If you cut a stem and plant it with its leaves, they will rot. I got that with some Limnopholla Sessiliphlora I planted on day1 (it also makes the procedure harder). Stripped thick stems can be planted maybe without needing to put the tweezers in the gravel. Limnophila sessiliflora and Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini have that characteristic. Planting stems with a distance of about 1,5cm looks nice and gives the opportunity to work around it too.

*5) Among livestock try to include a nerite snail and some amanos*

They help with algae and fertilize the ground in their special way  Feed them and they will get the job done. What color is your substrate? 

*6) Test hardscape before introduction*

If you plan to have driftwood, make sure it is healthy. If you plan to use rocks, you could do an acid test. I put a large piece of driftwood that I had boiled for more that 90 mins, and it caused lots of problems because its large base covered a lot of ground surface and make the substrate turn anaerobic. Besides its size there could have also been additional reasons. After I removed it, things started to improve immediately (better measurement results, no more foul smell).

*7) Algae and floating plants*

If you don't have a balance between the rate nutrients released, you could get algae. Not the end of the world, there are solutions like floating plants. I consider those the sentinels against algae! Floating plants combat three reasons that algae grows in a tank: a) excess nutrients; floaters take everything they need from the water column, because their roots are not in the ground. That leaves less nutrients for algae*. b) excess light; Floating plants will prevent light from entering the tank, which is a thing to take care of, in order not to hard your plants. c) Excess CO2? They absorb CO2 from the surface, so they photosynthesize easily and algae cannot deprive them of CO2 as in the case of submerged plants. Maybe floating plants deprive algae from water dissolved CO2? Not sure about that one&#8230;

*this way some floating species also absorb nitrites for the water.

* 8.) Research well, design, then plant!*

Make sure you have a good plan where to place everything before setup. Try to estimate how everything will grow and look according to information available online. Avoid pulling plants out of the soil. Maybe it would be a good idea to put styrofoam below the gravel/sand in the places where hardscape will be set (thanks to zolteeC for the idea). I guess if there is no underlying soil, there is nothing to become unaerobic. This can also help create slopes etc for creative aquascaping.

That was all I could think of right now, if you found anything I have misunderstood, fell free to correct me; I am here to learn. If you've read the entire post, big thanks for your time and interest!


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## MistyPhi (Oct 30, 2019)

Thank you for sharing your experiences so far and the photos.

Your tank looks wonderful.

EDIT: Confirmation on the photo size would be nice by anyone. I left my last post at 1080 but got the file size down below the 488kb. I am hoping the width isn't an issue.
EDIT2: From what I can find there is no limitation on image dimensions for attached images other than those shown in the upload window. Embedded images however do need to be 800x600 or less for the forum formatting.

Image rules.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Your detailed experiences are informative. I would not make the soil less fertile. Just use less a thinner soil layer--actually not a bad idea for smaller tanks. 

I looked back at your 4 gal tank when you first started this thread and what it looks like now. Very impressive! It's a tank that many advanced "plant people" wouldn't mind having.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

*MistyPhi*, thanks for your kind words! I think I'll post updates of the tank every now and then. I don't have any more significant changes in mind, just maintenance. Regarding the image size, I never looked it in detail, as I haven't needed so far to embed inline. I went with the 800*600 size so it has worked ok&#8230;

*Diana*, thank you for your kind words too! I gave it a lot of thought and planning and I am very happy with it now. Your compliment really means a lot! I actually admit to be looking at it for quite some time these days, I find watching the shrimps do their thing very amusing 

I'll keep in mind the option of a thinner soil layer for my next npt. That will probably be like 15gallons or so. Or maybe I'll research on what plants I'd like and let them dictate the tank size (within a reasonable extend of course&#8230


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Hello everyone! I have a little update about my tank and a question.

Growth has been good so far, not as good as I hoped for the carpet plant, but progressing nonetheless. Some leaves of the Alternanthera have become a bit deformed (pic2), and the Bucephalandra flowers do not bloom. They remain at the state of which I do not know the English word of (pic3). So here comes the question:

Is there anything that I can feed the shrimps so they fertilize the tank more efficiently? Or something that I should do on my behalf? I do not remember when was the last time I did a water change, but all measurements come out fine. All I do is feed the shrimps and trim the Limnophila sessiliflora every two weeks.

I wish everyone happy holidays, with health and all the best!


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## MistyPhi (Oct 30, 2019)

Your tank looks great, it must be exciting having flowers about to bloom. I think the word you were looking for is probably 'bud" the stage before the flower opens.

I'm more than a little envious of your Ambulia/Limnophila sessiliflora growth, I think they are the same they certainly look it, you have a great covering at the back of the tank there. I just went back and compared your recent photos with the ones from your first post what an incredible difference. You started your tank about the same time I did mine I think I need to go and check out some of my earlier photos after seeing yours.

Do you still not have a Betta yet? I couldn't see one in the images, I'll recheck your other posts.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

MistyPhi, thank you for your kind words my friend!

I see you have really nice growth in your tank too, and your plants look really good! Both nice and healthy! I asked my question because I have the impression something is not going ok with mine. Regarding the pics, I choose the angles I photograph carefully, so that enhances the way the tank looks 

The Bucephalandra had a bud (that was the word, thnx!) a few weeks ago which never bloomed. Then I noticed the two new buds I posted in my previous post, which I'd like to save. I have the impression there might be some sort of deficiency, that's why I asked. 

Unfortunately the Betta didn't make it. Soon after recovering from fin rot he died in the quarantine tank. It wasn't the tank environment because the shrimps and snail did ok, while being more sensitive species. I haven't adopted another betta, because the one I had before was very territorial and attacked the shrimps. Maybe I'll get ember tetras at some point, or some other small species. But that's going to be after my shrimps multiply, I think (=hope) one of the female RCS is carrying eggs!!!


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Hello everyone! Happy new year!

I'd like to ask the question again regarding the problem I have noticed on the leaves of the Alternanthera reineckii. Some leaves have marks (pic1) that turn into holes, some leaves get deformed (pic2).

Additionally, the salvinia auriculata hasn't been doing great either, some leaves melt (pic3) and all new that grow remain at a smaller size than when I bought them. The size is not a problem, but could it be an indicator that something is missing? Trace elements deficiency etc?

Water measurements look good, unless I should have higher NO3...


```
CO2 	Cl2	PH	KH	GH	 NO2	NO3			
21/12/19	3	0	8,3	>20	10	0,09	5				
18/01/20	9	0	7,7	14	8	0,17	0
```
Any ideas?


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## mysiak (Jan 17, 2018)

Could you make a photo of the whole tank, so the tank cover is clearly visible? I suspect that you have a tight fitting glass cover with condensed water on it.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

I am not home at the moment, but you are mostly right, it is a diy plexiglass cover, minimum possible openings, with plenty of condensation that drips back inside the tank so that I don't get moisture in the room. An interesting thing about the cover is that it bends (I guess due to temperature difference) and I flip it every week or so. Is that a bad thing? I can take a picture when I get home. 

Στάλθηκε από το G3112 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk


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## mysiak (Jan 17, 2018)

Very high humidity is a big problem for almost all floating plants, especially for Salvinia and Pistia - probably due to the nature of their leaves with fine "hair". Waxy leaves of Limnobium for example are less prone to rot. If you want to keep healthy Salvinia, you need to decrease the humidity. Removing whole cover probably won't be necessary, it should be enough to create a small gap (1-2mm) so humid air can escape and condensation won't occur. You will have a slightly higher evaporation rate, but nothing drastic. Before you replace/modify the cover, you can use for example suction cups as a simple temporary "stand". Sometimes it's enough to raise just one side or one corner of the cover.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Very interesting! I also have a small planted bowl with no cover, but the same problem occurs with the salvinia. And a vase covered, with a considerable distance from the surface to the lid, where the salvinia does well. I'll make some distance between the tank and its cover as you suggested, thanks!

Any ideas about the alternanthrera's leaves? 

Sent from my foolphone using Tapatalk


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## mysiak (Jan 17, 2018)

I gave Salvinia to a couple of friends and it failed miserably in all their tanks, it seems that it's very sensitive to high humidity (it basically rots) and strong water flow (grows tiny leaves and eventually rots). 

Salvinia (and other floating plants) also react very quickly to the lack of nutrients. In fresh or well stocked tanks it's usually micro nutrients deficiency. Are you providing any fertilizers? Being it liquid ferts or enough of fish food. Soil probably leaches some nutrients into the water column, but in totally stagnant water it might not be enough for floating plants and stem plants might suffer too. 

When I had a nano bowl, after adding a small filter with very gentle flow, pretty much all plants caught a "second breath". I believe that water flow is essential for good nutrients, oxygen and heat distribution around the tank. Simple air stone would be probably enough, but splashing water will further damage your floating plants, so should be avoided. 

My understanding (and experience) is that red plants in general are from "medium/high requirements" category, personally I didn't have luck keeping them healthy in low tech tanks for too long and all eventually withered away. If I'm not mistaken, the book mentions them as "unsuitable" for a NPT as well.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Mysiak, thank you very much for your time and advice.

I gave the tank a few doses a few times in order to help the plants that weren't doing well, but I am not sure it helped. That was during last month, just after my other post in December. I noticed a biofilm on the surface, so stopped dosing. I am feeding the shrimps every day, with shrimp granules, crushed shrimp sticks and every now and then boiled spinach or boiled carrot. The cherry shrimps don't get crazy about any type of food, but the Amano does. He bullies the rcs and always gets the big chunks of the sticks and granules. So I guess the shrimps fertilize the soil due to their food. Maybe I could give them some different type of food that helps with micro nutrients etc?

Regarding Salvinia auriculata, I have the impression that is suffered from allelopathy by the ceratophyllum demersum. The ceratophyllum had been growing really well until December, but the Salvinia didn't. According to what you say, maybe the increased humidity turned the balance in favor of the ceratophyllum. In order to verify, I moved it to the planted bowl, which also has salvinia floating. I haven't noticed deteriorating there, but I have noticed the salvinia on the 4gal tank getting better. Small leaves, but healthier than some time ago.

I have no motor-caused water flow, only due to temperature differences caused by the heater. No filters powerheads etc, I wanted to keep this tank minimal and according to the Walstad method.

I am sorry about your red plants having not done well. I was very optimistic (and maybe stubborn) about mine. I haven't read the book in detail about this, there are many parts that I want to go through, so far it has been skimming and scanning.

Ok, I followed your suggestion, I lifted the cover a few millimeters, and stabilized it with souvlaki sticks (imagine thick toothpicks 30cm long). I also lowered the water level about 3-4 cm. That gives the salvinia plenty of room to breathe and much less condensation forms on the cover so far. Remains to see tomorrow! I consider this a serious modification to the tank so that means the tank is now in experiment mode! So let's log:

*DAY 0*
_Facts of current state:_
1)	Salvinia auriculata: Doing so and so, leaves look healthy but are really smaller compared to those that came when I ordered. All those are gone.
2)	Limnophillia Sessiliphlora: Doing great, needs trimming every week.
3)	Alternanthera reineckii mini: doing average. Grows slowly, top leaves of the tall stems look good, medium and short don't. Maybe needs more light or nutrients.
4)	Bucephalandra sp red: Doing ok, most leaves are intact, vibrant color and texture, the buds don't bloom. Maybe needs less light or more nutrients.
5)	Marimo: Doing fine, color is deep green, I rotate quarter turns every week or so.
6)	Anubia Nana Pinto: Doing fantastic, best that any plant in the tank. Grows 1-2 leaves every 3weeks or so, those closer to the surface have more marble pigment (or less green)
7)	Marsilea creanata: Doing good. Finally spreading after a long time to adapt! Slow but steady. All leaves are green, very few have a little brown algae on top which is good for the shrimps and snail I guess.
8)	Amano shrimp. Doing great. Very energetic, swims around and feeds on almost everything in the tank. Bullies the rcs for their food at every opportunity he gets. Molts occasionally
9)	Red Cherry Shrimps. Doing good. All of them eat, hide and molt. The three females are all about the same size, round belly but not giving birth. The one and only male is smaller than the females, so I guess they are all adults by now. I have expectations of him&#8230;
10)	Horned Nerite - Clithon Corona: Doing ok. Gliding and licking glass and plants. Its shell has become mostly dark/black. Don't know if this is due to age or not. To be monitored.

_Modifications:_ Cover lifted a few mm, water level lowered 3-4cm. This has already impacted the humidity concentration between the surface and the cover. It will also impact the diffusion of light. Less diffusion means effectively more wpg of light. Long term effects to be seen.

_Expected results:_
•	Positive

Salvinia should get more coverage and bigger leaves. 
Limnophilla should keep growing fast. 
Alternanthera should benefit from the increased light (Tropica website)
Anubia should get more leaves with more white on them. 
Marsilea should expand more (really looking forward for this)

•	Negative

Marimo could lose color. 
Possible algae increase due to more light
Bucephalandra is said to do "best in lower light levels" (Tropica website)

•	Unknown

Concentrations of NO2, NO3, CO2 etc
Shrimps and snail behaviour and well being

Thank you if you have read so far! If you did, you are probably interested, so I'll keep posting about the results every few days 

References:
https://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/Alternantherareineckii'Mini'(023CTC)/4439
https://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/Bucephalandrasp.'Red'(139A)/19682


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Hello everyone! I thought I'd post a little follow up on my tank!

Five days after the aforementioned changes, I noticed the Salvinia doing better. No major changes, but better. Mysiak, you were totally right, it was the increased moisture that hurt the salvinia 

*1 week after the modification*

1) Salvinia auriculata is doing better. Noticable growth in healthy units








2) Alternanthera reineckii mini: More or less the same. I pruned the tops of the taller ones and replanted. Improved the tank's looks, but nothing else.
3) Anubia nana pinto: Still doing great, the main rhizome is in the process of growing one new leaf. The secondary rhizome has started growing tiny leaves! (pic below) I realized that this secondary portion has been attached the wrong way to the lava rock. Either I was so ignorant and [the opposite of observant], or the seller had glued it on the lava rock and I did the same when I moved her. Or maybe both...








4) Marsilea creanata: Doing good. Trying to get under the lava rock. Good luck with that one&#8230;
5) Shrimps and snails not affected.
6) No algae, no imbalance in water test results. 
All in all the decrease of the water level and the partial raise of the cover seem to only have done good to the tank. I'll leave it this way.

*2 weeks after the modification*

Same as above, the leaf of the primary Anubia is fully grown now. I am thinking of removing the secondary portion of the Anubia from the lava rock and placing her in my new project, a DSM bowl. But that is a different subject...

1) Bucephalandra sp red: Doing good, contrary to my expectations. Grew two new leaves, color and texture are fine all over.
2) Marimo not affected. Great news, I am very fond of this little ball!
3) Shrimps very energetic, especially the Amano (male) and a female red cherry (at least today she was). Still no eggs though from any RCS&#8230; Could you please take a look at pic3, is this a male? If not, it looks I have a RCS sorority, in which case I'll introduce some males&#8230; thanks in advance!


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## KingTheodin (Oct 21, 2019)

Where’d you get the salvinia auriculata from? I’ve searched like crazy and can’t find any.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

I ordered it from an aquarium store in Crete, Greece. Next day delivery via courier. Can't see your location via tapatalk, I'll post when I get home. Don't know if they send internationally, you could ask. Are you in Europe?

Sent from my foolphone using Tapatalk

_EDIT: sent you a *pm*, check your inbox _


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Hello everyone!

A little question regarding KH-GH values and possible need to regulate.

As I posted before, I have some plants that didn't do great and I also started having shrimp casualties. No births either all this time from RCS. I now have only female RCS, lost the males and two extra I introduced. New test strips (JBL) gave me different readings than the previous (Tetra) in GH and KH measurements so I decided to go with API liquid. Liquid test result is 13KH and 21GH.

Is there a need to intervene? If the GH needs to get lower, is it a good idea to add deionized water? I don't mean replacement, just addition.

Thanks in advance


PS: how do I dispose of the used kh gh reagents? down the drain, or do they need another way?


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Hello everyone! I hope you are all well!

I'd like to ask about some beings that I have noticed in my aquarium, maybe someone could illuminate me regarding what they could be.

The first pic is a creature that has been in the tank for quite some time. It is very agile, swims 3d with a speed of a few inches/sec which is impressive regarding its size (pic for comparison with an RCS). Its population increases from time to time, it looks like a swarm. Yesterday I siphoned some out and did a very small water change.


















The third pic is something I took while attempting to photograph those fast little creatures, but I noticed something that seems to have eyes!!! Could this be shrimp fry? I was waiting impatiently for them to come up but to no avail (until hopefully now?). A little above that there is a small branch type thing which I believe is algae. It doesn't spread, but I notice some every now and then.








So what about them? Anyone knows what they could be?

a)	Non-threatening little speed deamon?
b)	Shrimp fry?
c)	Non-threatening algae?

Thanks in advance!


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

a. seed shrimp (Ostracod)
b. not sure. Neocaridina shrimps fry look like small adults.
c. hydra. It hunts little crustaceans like Ostracod and baby shrimps & fish fry.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

hello mistergreen, thanks for you reply!

What do you mean hydra *hunts* for little crustaceans? If its algae how does it feed from them?

*EDIT:* 
Ok I looked it up, I saw how hydra feeds and how resilient it is. The idea is that I want this to be a shrimp tank. So if hydra feeds out of ostracods and shrimp fry this would not be helpful.

Given that I have a very noticeable population of ostracods, that means lots of food for hydra, so I expect it to multiply. If I introduce fish to the tank ostracods will vanish, buy then rcs will not be able to multiply either. Is it possible to achieve a balance somehow? Is it a matter of action, prevention, or just let it evolve and find its own balance? Main goal is to have a healthy NPT with RCS that will be multiplying to a larger population.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Hydra is like a sea anemone. I would manually remove them.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

zahtar said:


> The idea is that I want this to be a shrimp tank. So if hydra feeds out of ostracods and shrimp fry this would not be helpful.
> 
> Given that I have a very noticeable population of ostracods, that means lots of food for hydra, so I expect it to multiply. If I introduce fish to the tank ostracods will vanish, but then rcs will not be able to multiply either. Is it possible to achieve a balance somehow? Is it a matter of action, prevention, or just let it evolve and find its own balance? Main goal is to have a healthy NPT with RCS that will be multiplying to a larger population.


I wouldn't be too concerned. I would just let things evolve and see how it plays out. Hydra aren't that motile, so they can't really "hunt down" RCS. I suspect that the baby shrimp can learn how to avoid hydra--if the hydra population isn't too large.

I keep guppies with my RCS. The RCS multiply and I have not seen any ostracods.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Hello Diana, thank you for your reply!

The hydra population is not large, I have only noticed it on a small part of a corner. I believe I could siphon it away, but then again as you suggest I can leave it and see how it goes.

As for the guppy suggestion, I had thought of small fish like ember tetras. But that requires regular feeding, which I'm afraid is an issue during summer when I might be away for more than a couple of weeks.

Another phenomenon that I have noticed, is something like dirt coming up where there is plant growth (pic attatched). I notice this mainly with marsilea crenata, maybe only a little with other plants like saggitaria subulata (not to this extend). I had considered this normal and haven't siphoned it out, as I read in your book that dead organic matter replenishes the soil with nutrients (if I understood correctly). So, is it dirt that emerges during plant growth?

Thanks in advance!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I'm wondering if the dirt mounds aren't the diggings of aquatic worms (e.g., blackworms). Totally harmless and possibly beneficial. If fish were present, the worms would be gone in short order!

I see no reason *not* to siphon away a concentrated hydra population. "A stitch in time, saves nine..."


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## SkinnyKirby (May 19, 2020)

I noticed hydras in my tank a week after my first shrimp death. Hydras sting and paralyze small pray. Big shrimps just jump away from the sting but small shrimp dies. Hydra also catch and eat fish fry.

I tried removing the 2 i saw, one week later i saw 7... They reproduce like crazy. I killed them all with a 3day cure of fenbendazole, a total of 83mg with no WC until the 4th morning.

No shrimp or fry death and all pest snails still alive. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


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## SkinnyKirby (May 19, 2020)

SkinnyKirby said:


> I noticed hydras in my tank a week after my first shrimp death. Hydras sting and paralyze small pray. Big shrimps just jump away from the sting but small shrimp dies. Hydra also catch and eat fish fry.
> 
> I tried removing the 2 i saw, one week later i saw 7... They reproduce like crazy. I killed them all with a 3day cure of fenbendazole, a total of 83mg with no WC until the 4th morning.
> 
> ...


83mg for 30litres that is. I now have activated carbon in the tank just in case.
I know people use far lower doses and have success. But for me it didnt seem to work until i reached a very high dose on the 3rd day

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Thank you for your replies! I have updates regarding hydra, not about the arising "dirt" but I do have a new question 

Regarding hyrda, I siphoned out as many as I could see and after two weeks I cannot see any new. In the meantime I had the bad idea to feed a slice of banana to my shrimp, which they did like, but the next day the water became a bit cloudy. The same evening I noticed that there was blurry buildup at the glass too. Big water change (2 of them actually) + glass cleaning with a magnetic scraper and everything is clear again. After that, hydra has not reappeared. Let's hope I did not scatter it everywhere!

Regarding that dirt-like thing in some parts of the aquarium, I have not noticed any aquatic worms, ever. At least not visible to the naked eye&#8230; I have the impression it is dirt that marsilea crenata drags up during growth due to the flat horizontal shape of her leaves, but I wanted to ask just in case. The growth is very very slow, which brings us to the question that has risen in my mind.

Is it possible/necessary to monitor nutrient concentration in an aquarium? Some species are not doing well at all (Salvinia auriculata, alternanthera reineckii mini), some are growing slower than expected (ludwigia palustris, sagittaria subulata) and marsilea crenata grows very slow, maybe too slow, but that could be her nature. I also don't have the distinctive red colour on the alternanthera (nor ludwigia) and the older anubia leaves turn yellowy with small holes. I bought a Fe test (liquid test by Sera) and gave a reading of zero, so that could be a sign. What measurements are mandatory to keep track of in a planted aquarium? What are necessary?

Last but not least, I thought I'd post some pics of my tank 







































PS: The salvinia in the last image is a new addition, I bought her yesterday. Unfortunately she doesn't have those long beautiful roots as the initial salvinia (auriculata) I bought from a different store...


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