# El Natural Goldfish Tank, need advice!



## abnormalsanon (Jun 6, 2006)

Hi there, I would like to add plants to my 55gal goldfish tank, but without spending a lot of money since they're likely to eat some  This of course led me to thinking about a NPT, which I've really enjoyed reading up on here.

The only problem is that I haven't seen any threads about NPTs that involve goldfish, which are disgustingly filthy compared to your typical tropical fish. So do the rules change at all? Do the plants like the goldfish waste even more? I currently have 3 goldies (all 1 year or younger so still relatively small) and 2 weather loaches in the tank, as well as lots of rock and bogwood.

Also, my tank is in a dark hallway that gets basically no natural light. I have nowhere else to put it, so the light would have to be from bulbs. I'm willing to upgrade my lighting, which is currently the (very low wattage) flourescent bulb that came with the tank. I would probably go with a CF fixture, around 130 watts or so. Would this suffice or is natural light a must?

Thanks in advance, I'm really excited to give this a shot!


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## sb483 (May 29, 2006)

Anacharis is the plant usually associated with goldfish, since it can stand cooler temperatures. I think if the tank isn't too deep, even a single fluorescent bulb is enough for anacharis (though more light may help). The anacharis (and cabomba) in my goldfish pond receive very little light, since the lily pads completely cover the surface, but they're still there after several winters.

Since goldfish produce a lot of waste, I'd recommend you start out with a lot of plants (anacharis, cabomba, lillaeopsis, java moss, and more, can all stand cooler temperatures) with a soil substrate (potting soil or garden soil, covered with gravel) for good plant growth. Feeding the goldfish and not cleaning/vacuuming the gravel or changing the water constantly will provide the nutrients that the plants need. If you start getting good plant growth, remember to trim the plants regularly so a) they don't start blocking all the light and b) they keep growing and sucking up nutrients so algae can't grow.


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

What kinda goldies?

The larger sword plants should do well.

I'd definitely test out the soil first. I was setting up my 125 for my goldies, but the soil I used generated ammonia for a month and lots of gasses for many more months. The tank wasn't handling the fish load and I was worried about hydrogen sulfide poisoning, so I moved the goldies out. That tank's around 1.5 years old now and I put a little oranda in it for a while and he did fine.


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## cwlodarczyk (Sep 18, 2005)

sb483 said:


> and more, can all stand cooler temperatures) with a soil substrate (potting soil or garden soil, covered with gravel) for good plant growth.


Soil should NOT be used in a goldfish tank. Goldfish dig in the substrate so much that the tank would continually be a murky mess. Better would be to use an inert base such as SAPS or Soilmaster.


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

cwlodarczyk said:


> Soil should NOT be used in a goldfish tank. Goldfish dig in the substrate so much that the tank would continually be a murky mess. Better would be to use an inert base such as SAPS or Soilmaster.


I (and Betty too, I'm sure) would have to disagree. Soil can most certainly be used in a goldfish tank (depending, of course, on the type of goldfish) as is evident by the success of Betty's 125 gal. soil-substrate tank. Depending on the goldfish, you might just have to take different approach. See Betty's post at the Goldfish Aquarium Board

http://thegab.org/Articles/PottedPlants.html

for an excellent discussion on using soil in goldfish tanks. It can (and given how much waste goldies produce SHOULD) be done, you just have to plan carefully.

-ricardo


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## cwlodarczyk (Sep 18, 2005)

After reading that I'll retract my statement - though I think there is definately a line between a soil substrate and potted plants.


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

cwlodarczyk said:


> After reading that I'll retract my statement - though I think there is definately a line between a soil substrate and potted plants.


I think the key is how it's done, in terms of setup and types of goldfish...

-ricardo


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

abnormalsanon said:


> .
> 
> Also, my tank is in a dark hallway that gets basically no natural light. I have nowhere else to put it, so the light would have to be from bulbs. I'm willing to upgrade my lighting, which is currently the (very low wattage) flourescent bulb that came with the tank. I would probably go with a CF fixture, around 130 watts or so. Would this suffice or is natural light a must?
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## abnormalsanon (Jun 6, 2006)

Thanks for all the replies! Much appreciated. I'm sure I'll have more questions when I finally get down to redoing the tank.


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## Minipol (Jul 4, 2006)

Betty, just checked out your page and the 125 gallon tank is very nice !
It looks great !


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

dwalstad said:


> I would consider Betty the expert on this.


Yes! She should change her name to GoldfishNPTGuru!

-ricardo


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

LOL Well, my attempt with goldies in a natural planted tank wasn't successful probably due to the soil I used in the 125 (It generated way too much H2S). I keep looking at my new 120 and am tempted to try it with the new topsoil that isn't too gassy. But I can't imagine the mess trying to clean it out if it didn't work out (I can hardly reach the bottom of that tank). plus I'd want to let the plants get established a bit before adding the goldies and don't have anywhere else to put them. My two largest orandas are almost a foot long now. 

The potted plants do work great for doing plants with goldfish. They appear to be working with the cichlids as well.


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## abnormalsanon (Jun 6, 2006)

Hi Betty,

That's my concern--that I'll drain the tank, add the soil + gravel and plants, and find out it doesn't work a few months later. If it doesn't, I'm stuck. I have no other place to put the goldfish (other than a hospital tank) and I'd have to dig out all that soil and start over again. The whole reason I'm doing this is to improve the water quality for my goldies and make the tank more fun for them, and I don't want that to backfire. At the same time, I would love a natural planted tank. Besides the time it would save me doing water changes and testing everything, it would save me about $250 in equipment as well!

Either way, these are the plants I am planning on adding, and I'd love your opinion on whether or not they'll be goldfish lunch. I have two small fantails and one medium-sized comet. I will be adding 130W CF, and haven't yet decided about CO2. My substrate is currently 50/50 gravel and flourite.

Crystal vals
Anacharis
Chilensis Broadleaf Sag
Dwarf sag
Ozelot sword
Amazon sword
Crypt Wendtii v. "Red"
Crypt Wendtii v. "Bronze"
Crypt Petchii v. "Bronze"
Red Temple
Frogbit
Willow moss (already in the tank)
Anubias nana
Java fern (reg. and lace)
Wisteria

I know the frogbit will be nibbled, and that's okay. I'd rather get something cheap and tasty and hope they ignore some of the others. I know for a fact that the comet will eat new shoots on java ferns and anubias, but I'm hoping if I add enough plants and feed him lots of veggies, he'll mostly leave them alone.


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## goldielovr (Apr 12, 2006)

I have a planted tank with goldies. It isn't terribly deep, only 18 inches, which helps a lot getting the light down to the plants. It's been up about 7 months now. No mess, no rooting, only one pea soup incident and that was a combination of taking plants out to start another tank, and someone leaving the lights on over a weekend when we weren't home. I added a bucket full of lettuce and it cleared in three days or so.

I'd be glad to share what's worked and what didn't so far. I'm about to do a little vacuuming just to be on the safe side. I still test regularly and watch the fish themselves for signals that the water quality is good. After the first month or so the ammonia and nitrite values zeroed out and have stayed like that. My nitrates contingue to read zero, but so many people have told me it *must* not be working properly (I can sympathize: it's hard to picture 6 months' worth of goldie pooh not generating any nitrates) I'm considering getting a new nitrate test. My current test kit was brand new and registered nitrates in my old plantless tanks. . . 

My goldies are all fancies, no long-bodied comets or shubunkins or anything like that. They eat very well, lots of veg and bits of fish and shellfish whenever we have any. Three are really big and the rest (7)are medium sized. The tank is a 6 foot 18" deep hundred gallon. Big tanks are more stable than little ones, so maybe that helps. If interested I can describe what plants I have in there.


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## goldielovr (Apr 12, 2006)

I keep frogbit and duckweed in my other tanks and feed them to the goldies for a green snack--Betty does that too, in fact she's where I got the idea. They get the odd pond snail that shows up too. 

I found that water lettuce was the magic plant for me. It's a floater so it's got that 'arial advantage' Diane talks about, and my goldies won't eat it. Occasionally they pull the roots off them when they're bored, but they don't eat the plants. The only danger is it multiplies so I have to keep thinning it out so the plants underneath can get some light.


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## goldielovr (Apr 12, 2006)

A new Rubbermaid storage bin makes a good emergency container to hold goldies while you do things to the tank. If you're near a restaurant supply place you can sometimes find white food-grade containers too. Just add aeration and heat.


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## Minipol (Jul 4, 2006)

yep i use those rubber containers all the time. I think i have about 2 of 80l, 2 of 45l (for water changes), and about 3 of 50 l.
Always handy in case of an emergency or when reaquascaping the tank.


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

Those plants sound like they'll work great!

So are you going to do a bottle test on the soil? I would if you haven't used it before. I recently adopted a bunch of small orandas. At some point after the little orandas get decent sized, I may need to move the smaller goldies into the 125 again and give it another try since the soil has had a year and a half to settle. I still see gasses from time to time but not anything like it was.

My fancies are great with the plants. The commons are a different story all together. The commons were eating my sag subulata and vals like they were spaghetti. Lots of veggies and adding plants they like better should help.


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