# Multiple algae issue



## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

I have an UGF and I think that could be posing part of the problem.

I have been trying to find a source. I do not overfeed, I feed my fish twice a day, and they've eaten it all in about 30 seconds to a minute. Very possible I am underfeeding them. I douse with flourish twice a week at about 2ML (25 gallon tank) I have added some iron tabs into the substrait under heavy feeders like the Amazon swords as well as some substrate root ferts. 

I use 2 Co2 Yeast reactors changed alternating weeks. 

Params:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: unknown don't have a test kit for that yet.
GH: 200
PH: 8.0
KH: 110

light 55 watts
20 flora-glo
20 sun-glo
15 - compact flouressent
temp: 25C

Filtration: 
Aquaclear 50 HOB
201 powerhead to the undergravel filter. 

I don't mind algae for the most part, I have it basically under control and it feeds my shrimp +nerite, but I got a feeling I am going to lose control of the BBA that seems to be starting to take hold in various spots. 

I would use excell, but my tank contains val and that can Kill val. I have done some spot treatments of hydrogen peroxide on the various bits of BBA as well as BGA.

I don't have a SAE thus far, I may be considering one. 

Right now the problem isn't big, I remove infected leaves when I see them. but it's getting onto things I cannot readily remove. 

I have seen currently:

BGA
Brown
Spot
Long thread like
Staghorn
BBA

So, I need some biological control that will effectively eliminate all of them. Aside of my hand and scissors. 

Suggestions?


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

I had similar algae issues when I used flourish and iron without the N,P,K. After lots of reading and asking questions I learned that if the plants don't have N,P, and K to take up, then they will not utilize the micronutrients (in the flourish) and those micros will then be available to algae.

Some root tabs have macro (NPK) in them, but not enough for anything other than very low light.

As far as excel and val: The val will eventually adjust to the excel (it takes a couple or more months in my experience) if you don't over-do-it. I have even found that the fissidens in my tank has adjusted very well to excel (when used as recommended on the bottle...can't say the same for over-dosing) .

-Dave


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

So a gentle dosing of excell is okay?


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Sunstar said:


> So a gentle dosing of excell is okay?


Yes, but you WILL get some minor damage on the Vals at first until they adjust. Something I've also done is take the daily recommended dose of excel into a syringe and squirt it directly on the thread algae, BBA. That way the algae is getting a toxic dose, while the tank itself, as a whole, is only getting a very light dose.

-Dave


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

Okay. I will unfortunately have to wait until after rent is out, then I will get excell. I got the ideal syringe with a tuby thing that makes aiming and getting into weird spots work. 

Thanks a bunch dave. 

Would new val runners be less upset?


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

You would benefit from a better co2 system. I'll bet you aren't getting enough. Your macros are probably low too. Is the tank dirty? Fix those things and run a maintenance dose of Excel and it won't be back. 

Relying on biological controls is not the solution. Solving the root issues is.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

My tank's water comes up pretty clear when I do my weekly water change/vac even the filter looks to be pretty clean. I do tend to remove dead/dying leaves and whatnot as I find them. 

I would like a better co2 system, but at the moment, I can't afford it. Saving my pennies, mind you. 

roots, where I can see them, appear bright white. So they seem healthy in that respect.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

I didn't mean roots literally. I meant that a band-aid approach (herbivores) to fixing the problem will only get you so far. Cover all your bases and this kind of thing is rarely a problem.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

LOL sorry. I got a cold and I am a bit out of it. 

I have been reading the other threads and I wonder if I am too low on the fert dosing, as I only do about 2 ml of flourish every couple days. I have done a water test and noticed a small amount of ammonia. 

Its possible I got too high a bio-load. I am waiting for my sister to take me to the nearest BA so I can take some of my youngsters in for a trade. then I would like to get some excell or some ottos or something like that.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Yeah, that much Flourish for a tank that size with that much light isn't even close to enough. But are you adding any nitrate or phosphate? Do you have a drop checker to measure co2?


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

I have added fertiliser sticks into the roots which contain nitrate and phosphate. I do not have a drop checker. To sound completely ignorant. What is a drop checker?

Edit:I found them on ebay. I thought those were....diffusers. I will buy one


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

If you go with a mineralized soil substrate or Aquasoil that have the macros more or less built in, that's fine, but I'd go with water column dosing if I were in your position. It sure doesn't sound like the root sticks are cutting it. Check out some of the stickies in the fertilizing forum. That should give you an idea of where you want to go. I can share my own preferences with you if you like.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

you are welcome to share your preferences. I will post a link to my tank so you can see what I am working with. gimme a few moments.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...25-gallon-what-would-you-call.html#post417409


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Hey

I had a few things come up today and wanted to say that I'll give you a proper response tomorrow. Your tank looks like it'll be something we can fix, so hang in there.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

I'll hang in there. Thanks


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilizing/33560-how-i-do.html

There's an older thread of mine describing what I do. The especially relevant part is here:



> Into 300mls of distilled water goes 3 teaspoons of kno3 and 1 teaspoon of potassium phosphate (obtained from Greg Watson).
> 
> Another 300mls of distilled water contains 1 teaspoon of potassium phosphate only.
> 
> It took some trial and error, but I add from 5.5 to 6.5 daily of the first solution and 3 of the second. It's kind of hard to articulate, but the amounts of the first solution don't change much and that allows me to make adjustments by altering the second one only. Both are added at night. I'm kind of surprised at how much P I add, but I just go by what the tanks needs and no longer ask why. I don't test unless something looks off simply because I don't like to. If I had to guess, I'd say that nitrates are usually around 20-25ppm and phosphates 2-3ppm.


Try making those solutions and going with 2.5 of the first and .75 of the second every day. Manually remove all you can and maybe do some spot treatment with the Excel. Got the drop checker? See how things go after a week or two. It's more or less an eyeballing method, but it works. You don't really have to be crazy about the water changes either. Every other week is fine. This is more or less in between EI and PPS and you can grow _anything_ doing it. I set up a 75 from the beginning and there was _zero_ algae from the first day to the last a year and a half later when I let it go emersed. It helps to have a bit of experience doing this, but we did it for a couple people in Pittsburgh who were new to the hobby with good success. I'll help you fiddle with it if you need.

Start with 5mls a day of Flourish and see how things look. Unless, of course, you've found a different way of doing things before I got back to you, which would be fine.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

how does this do for shrimp? My drop checker will be coming in ebay sometime. I have been removing infected leaves as I find them daily.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

There should be no problems whatsoever with shrimp.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

Okay, to sound like a right idiot. Where can I get the potassium and what is Kno3?


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

Can I find either at the local chemist?


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

kno3 is potassium nitrate. You can get that and the potassium phosphate from vendors here. IT may be at your local chemist as well. It's been my experience that if you're adding ferts I mentioned you'll _usually_ get all the potassium you need.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

Not sure what algae it is, I am assuming staghorn but it's about to get out of my control quite shortly. Manual removal might result soon in a nuking.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Don't worry. If that's what it is, it will disappear quickly when you start fertilizing. It looks bad, but it isn't.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

Okay. I hope that's all it is. 

I got a plan to redo the tank in about 4 - 6 months. I will hopefully have what I really want for the tank. Such as

Flourite, pressurised co2 and some other nurtirents for the plants. I want to remove the UGF and replace it with a PVC tube system to create a sort of current taking from teh bottom of the tank and jetting it out near the top as well as my HOB, or if I am lucky canister by then. 

I want to keep my current setup of hardscape and plants. I just want to do it better.

And my platy just had more babies....I got one in my shrimp bowl so it can eat the cyclops


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Sunstar said:


> Can I find either at the local chemist?


Sorry for hijacking this thread. Your local hydroponic store or online. Rex Grigg is highly regarded in the aquarium plant community for his knowledge. He also has some of the best prices if you order on-line. 
http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/ferts.html


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

I don't mind hijacks as long as its useful and everyone might profit.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

is the lack of Phosphate an algae trigger? I have some plants coming up wiht yellow leaves and I wonder.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Absolutely it is. Whether it's causing your whitish leaves is another matter. How are things coming along in general? Have you made any improvements?


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

I am hitting with a somewhat high dose of excel right now, I am seeing some improvement. But I am sort of low on cash. I saw a bottle of seachem phosphate at the lfs. I was thinking of going back and getting it.

The anubia leaves are clearing up a bit, and the staghorn or whatever that crap is is not spreading as mcuh. 

I removed some ricca and monosolenium tenerum and found baby danio in the bowl I had set them in a few days later. I get to have some fun raising those again. 

In my thread of my 25 gallon, I posted some pics of some weird...white growth, I think its bacteria. its in my fry tank and creates small ball like things that spreads into larger colonies on my glass. 

Once I whoop one problem, another sprouts somewhere else....as I have been calling it "the issue of the week"


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Your money will go much farther with dry ferts for the macros. I do like their micros and Excel a lot though.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

I'll try to find a local hydroponics store.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

Kinda funny, but I have been treating my tank, just under 1ml per gallon of Excel. My wild collected val, which I snared out of the canal when it floated by, is growing like mad. Its grown 6 inches since I started treatment and added a runner. The other domestic val aren't doing much of anything. I was expecting them to die off.


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