# Keep Glass Lids?



## studiopro (Aug 26, 2006)

Hello everyone,

I have been lurking here for a while and I have a question that I cant seem to find the answer for.

First a little backround on my set-up. I have a 135g long with 2 Rena XP's, Emporer 400 HOB, sand substrate, pressurized Co2, and 4x55 AH Supply PC with 2/10000k and 2/6700k.

I was overseas for 6 months and now face the task of rescaping my tank. I dont have many pictures of the tank before I left but I do have 2 low quality pics:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=3787
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=3781

So now this is probably a very simple question but, the glass lids that cover the top of the tank, do I keep them on or not? I have 1.67 wpg however, I have low light plants and have some more on order (shouldbe here Tues) Anyone have an opinion on this?

Here are a couple pics of the tank now. (again low quality pics taken with cell phone)

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...ral.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=3786
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...ral.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=3783
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=3784

If anyone has any thoughts, it would be greatly appreciated.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Welcome to APC  

Having a open top tank or covered is up to personal preference. I lean toward open top tanks because of the ease of maintenance and it allows plants to grow out above the surface of the water. A couple of draw backs is water evaporation and jumping fish. I do have one tank that is covered, because I had one species of shrimp that kept crawling out.


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## studiopro (Aug 26, 2006)

Thank you for your response trenac. 

Does keeping the lids on hinder my light output? I get frequent calcium buildup on the lids and I am wondering if I remove the lids completely, will I get better light penetration to the bottom of the tank?


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

If the lids are constantly clouded by the buildup and splashing it will hinder the light entering the tank. That's one of the reasons why I decided not to use glass tops on my tanks. When the glass is perfectly clean, the light blocked is minimal.

-John N.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Is the weather where you live typically cold or warm? 
In the northeast, it can be extremely cold for 6 months of the year, and with heating costs being what they can be, keeping a glass cover on can keep more of the heat in the tank. 
If where you live is like summer all year long, then that would be irrelevant and you would not need the glass cover unless your fish or shrimp try to jump out.


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

i keep mine on due to evaporation and we have the a/c blowing cold in the house so the open top would cause heating issues inside the tank


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## 247Plants (Mar 23, 2006)

I go topless whenever I can....


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## vollman1 (Jul 25, 2006)

If your critters won't escape, topless gets my vote.


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## rich311k (Jun 24, 2006)

I run my tanks topless.


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## werner (Jul 6, 2006)

So what do you guys do with your lights? Hang them, or just ignore the "not for use over open water" warning?


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

werner said:


> So what do you guys do with your lights? Hang them, or just ignore the "not for use over open water" warning?


LOL. For myself, I ignore the warning. But I put my electronic equipment on a GFCI outlets in case of water shocks. My lights are on legs or mounted 6 inches in a wooden canopy. FYI: if you look at your surge protectors which I'm sure most people are using for their aquariums, they have that warning too. 

I'm weary of having things hang from the ceiling. I'm afraid I might mount and screw it incorrectly and have it fall in. But I might give it a try sooner or later.

-John N.


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

The glass lids will have an effect on dissolved oxygen (DO). If you cover the tank with a glass lid, you will need aeration running 24/7 to keep the levels up.

Plants will not be enough, no matter how many you have in there.

My own opinion, based on my own testing using three tanks and a DO meter.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Salt, that makes sense. But with the lower dissolved O2 levels caused by having a lid (from your observation and general intuition) doesn't seem to have an effect on fish and shrimp from what I observed. I had a tank with a lid on it for a year, and never had any dead fish as a result. I only removed the lid, because it was easier to manage the tank.

So maybe the lower dissolved oxygen levels are minimal and not that detrimental.

-John N.


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

In my instance, I actually had to stop the test when some of the fish I was using in the tank as a "test" started swimming upside down.

The stocking level and type of fish play a big role. The other thing is in a larger rectangular tank, I had the least DO loss, but I still measured levels between 4-5 ppm, which is enough to stress some fish, but not kill them.


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## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

werner said:


> So what do you guys do with your lights? Hang them, or just ignore the "not for use over open water" warning?


I build my own lights, that way they don't come with the warning.

My vote is for topless. I have both.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

> The glass lids will have an effect on dissolved oxygen (DO). If you cover the tank with a glass lid, you will need aeration running 24/7 to keep the levels up.
> 
> Plants will not be enough, no matter how many you have in there.


 Salt, I find this very interesting. In a way, it kind of validates my use of a Penguin BIO-Wheel Mini on my 10 Gallon tank.

In the winter I know my glass top keeps the heat in, and in the summertime it keeps the CO2 in when I have the water level high enough to trap the CO2 underneath the glass top until it completely dissolves.

Not being too technically minded, I did try to make sure that my filter was turned on at night time to make sure my fish had enough oxygen.

I love turning the filter off when I come home and watch the plants pearl when the water tubulence calms down, the Nutrafin CO2 is running and the lights are running full blast for 4 hours instead of lower light for 8 hours.

Your comments about dissolved oxygen are well taken. Thank you.


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## studiopro (Aug 26, 2006)

Well I have gone 1 week w/o glass tops and here are my observations:

I have experienced a definite increase in water loss. I never used to see a water line in a 1 week period, and I have a 3/4" water line now. That is an 11% increase in a 1 week period. Not excessive in IMO considering the avg temp here in vegas during the day was over 100*

I'm going to leave them off for 1 more week to see if these results are constant. I am alo going to decrease my photoperiod from 6 hours, to 5 to combat an algae outbreak. Not sure if the two are related but, it seems that my Ph has been slightly erratic and might have a Co2 or NO3 issue.

Not much else to report until after some water tests and a water change...


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Vegas never gets cold throughout the year, correct? It sounds like an extremely warm place. 
Like one of those places that New Yorkers dream of visiting in the middle of winter!


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

Did some further experimenting in my 42 gallon hex which has the glass cover.

Put in my American Marine Dissolved Oxygen meter and measured 6.4 ppm of DO. I tried turning off the two main tank airstones and instead ran a sweetwater airstone inside the Aquaclear 70/300 HOB filter. DO levels only decreased as far as 5.8 ppm over the course of an entire day. I lost far less CO2 as well. I was able to decrease my CO2 injection rate from 45 mililiters per minute down to around 20 mililiters per minute (I am still testing this and making adjustments) to maintain the same CO2 levels. I think this will be a lot better for plants as well, as it eliminates the up currents and also issues with light getting to the plants due to light reflecting and refracting off the bubbles.

However, when the lights switched off, there was a near instant reaction from the DO readings. Within less than an hour, DO levels dropped to below 4 ppm, which is the point where aquatic life is put under stress (less than 2 ppm and fish can start to die). I turned on the two main tank airstones and this was quickly remedied.

I now have timers set up to turn the main tank airstones off and the HOB airstone on during lights on, and vice versa during lights off.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Studiopro, regarding you question about the glass lids on top of your tank let me share with you my experience even WITH my glass lid on. 

I can sum it up in two short words. STUPID FISH!

It was either last week or the week before. I had gotten a bunch of very nice fish from the local fish store which my children and the store staff helped pick out. I very much liked the fish we got and was enjoying paying attention to them very much. My favorite was the female Betta. I had never had a female Betta before and was not expecting to like her as much as the Male Betta I had in other tanks. Well she was beautiful and had quite a personality! And her ability to make 180 turns was amazing and her fins quite unique showing her personality even more. 

The week after she dissappeared. I could not figure it out. The night before, there. The next day gone. I looked through all the plants. I gave up and bought another one two days ago. 

We finally found her. It was completely weird, but true. EVEN WITH THE GLASS LID ON MY TANK, THE STUPID FISH JUMPED OUT!!

My son while cleaning and vaccumming the room that the tank is in found her, ACROSS THE ROOM ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROOM. She looked quite weird completely dried up. Almost looked like a plastic replica of a fish like a child's toy. I don't feel bad at all. I had when she disappeared. For the first time, I figure if the fish was stupid enough to jump out of a tank with a glass lid on top with a complete 1 inch to 1/2 inch opening, well stupid fish deserved what she got. 

Salt, I love your details about the dissolved oxygen. I am now even more glad that I have my Penguin BIO-Wheel Mini. I am thinking of putting it on a timer to run only at nighttime. 

I love the details you give on different things. You really are a very smart guy. Thank you.


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## studiopro (Aug 26, 2006)

Jimbo, I had a similar experience with a pictus cat a few months ago. Jumped out of the back of the tank with lids on. 

I did a few tests yeterday, all tests were within optimal ranges, NO3 was a few points off, 20ppm, but still within range. I metioned earlier that I had an algae outbreak. I can only summize that I am getting much better light penetration and need to adjust my dosing. I am going to adjust my NO3 doses an maybe up the traces as well.

I decreased my photo period by an hour also, might help to fight this algae and keep it at bay. It looks like BGA, and I am slightly concerned.

Salt, I am intrigued by your DO observations. I have put the airstone and HOB penguin filter to turn on on lights off, and have let my powerhead run 24/7.


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## werner (Jul 6, 2006)

So I broke down and took it off 2 nights ago (the glass cover, that is.) I've definitely noticed more pearling, and it starts much earlier in the day. The light seems to be reaching to the lower levels of the tank much better too.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

For comparison, I keep a 46g bowfront with a very tight-fitting cover. There is almost no surface movement at all. I inject CO2 and get good pearling during the day. The tank is VERY densely planted, mostly with stemmies. I have never used an airstone. There is no movement of air across the surface. There are 6 congo tetras, 14 rummies, 4 neons, 3 glass cats, 1 threadfin bow, 1 cory, 5 otos, and 4 zebra danios in the tank. By any rational definition, it's overstocked. The fish have never shown any distress whatsoever. The photoperiod has varied between 10 and 11 hours per day and water temp is 76F.

Just throwin' that out there.......


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