# [Wet Thumb Forum]-My Experience with Softened Water



## daisydog (Feb 6, 2003)

I wanted to share my experience in using softened water just in case anyone is considering doing the same. In short, I don't recommend using softened water. Here are the specifics of my situation.

The water in my new house has a GH of 15, and has gone as high as 19 at times. When I first moved in I did not have a water softener and everything was going great. After I got a water softener GH was down to 0 GH, and of course there was a lot of sodium in the water. I added calcium and magnesium back to the water by adding about 8 degrees GH of calcium chloride and 2 degrees GH of magnesium sulfate. Within a couple weeks of getting the water softener my plants began to look bad. Many of my fast growing plants just stopped growing. These include L. sessiliflora, R. rotundifolia, and H. zosterfolia. Amazon swords continued to grow but new leaves had holes all over them. My lotus continued to grow very fast, as it always did, but the new leaves were all curled and full of holes. The fish did not seem to have any problems. Overall the tank looked pretty bad.

To fix the problem, I plumbed hard water to the cold water line of my fish tank sink. I am now using a mix of hard cold water and soft hot water. The mix is probably about 75% hard and 25% soft. Plants look much, much better even after only one week. Everything is growing again and new leaves already look normal.

During the short period of using purely softened water, I probably had sodium levels of 120-150 ppm. I now probably have sodium levels of 30-40 ppm. Based on my experience, sodium levels of 120-150 ppm cause some serious problems, whereas 30-40 ppm seems to be ok. Through the whole process I always maintained a pretty high GH and didn't alter any of my other fertilization.

Bottom line: I recomment not using softened water. I used it only because that was how the house was plumbed and I figured I ought to give it a try before I invested any time and money into re-plumbing things.


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## daisydog (Feb 6, 2003)

I wanted to share my experience in using softened water just in case anyone is considering doing the same. In short, I don't recommend using softened water. Here are the specifics of my situation.

The water in my new house has a GH of 15, and has gone as high as 19 at times. When I first moved in I did not have a water softener and everything was going great. After I got a water softener GH was down to 0 GH, and of course there was a lot of sodium in the water. I added calcium and magnesium back to the water by adding about 8 degrees GH of calcium chloride and 2 degrees GH of magnesium sulfate. Within a couple weeks of getting the water softener my plants began to look bad. Many of my fast growing plants just stopped growing. These include L. sessiliflora, R. rotundifolia, and H. zosterfolia. Amazon swords continued to grow but new leaves had holes all over them. My lotus continued to grow very fast, as it always did, but the new leaves were all curled and full of holes. The fish did not seem to have any problems. Overall the tank looked pretty bad.

To fix the problem, I plumbed hard water to the cold water line of my fish tank sink. I am now using a mix of hard cold water and soft hot water. The mix is probably about 75% hard and 25% soft. Plants look much, much better even after only one week. Everything is growing again and new leaves already look normal.

During the short period of using purely softened water, I probably had sodium levels of 120-150 ppm. I now probably have sodium levels of 30-40 ppm. Based on my experience, sodium levels of 120-150 ppm cause some serious problems, whereas 30-40 ppm seems to be ok. Through the whole process I always maintained a pretty high GH and didn't alter any of my other fertilization.

Bottom line: I recomment not using softened water. I used it only because that was how the house was plumbed and I figured I ought to give it a try before I invested any time and money into re-plumbing things.


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## daisydog (Feb 6, 2003)

The one plant that did not seem to have a problem with the sodium was glossostigma. It grew well the whole time.


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## Steve Hampton (Feb 13, 2004)

While we are on this subject, I know that using potassium chloride is a much better choice and can be used with less problems...my question is about the chloride. Has anyone every seen problems associated with excessive amounts of chloride?

[This message was edited by Steve Hampton on Sat November 22 2003 at 06:48 PM.]


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Daisydog,

Thanks for relating your experience. Water softened with common ion exchange - type water softeners is not good for growing plants. A few of us have unsoftened water that comes out of our taps with composition similar to softened water. In my case I had about 70 ppm sodium to go along with less than 1 degree of total hardness. The high sodium level and high sodium:calcium ratio caused my tanks a lot of problems. Adding potassium made it worse. I had to add quite a bit of magnesium to all of my water and add calcium to the substrate in order to avoid severe deficiencies.

Steve,

Chloride is biologically benign until it reaches levels where problems arise from the salinity of the water -- when the water becomes brackish. The US drinking water standard is set at 250 mg/l. The standard is set because of the effect of chloride on the taste of the water, not because of any health impact. Data on crop yields shows that the most salinity-sensitive plants show no measurable effect unless chloride reaches about 350 mg/l. For many plants salinity effects don't appear unless the chloride concentration is over 1000 mg/l.

Fish may be a different matter. Fish that originate from very fresh water may not breed or display well in water that has much mineral content. Chloride would not have a specific effect on those animals, but it would contribute to the mineral content.

Sodium and potassium chloride are used to recharge ion exchange water softeners but the chloride from those salts do not end up in the softened water. The chloride is flushed down the sewer during the softener's recharge cycle.

Roger Miller

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_"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein_

[This message was edited by Roger Miller on Sat November 22 2003 at 08:49 PM.]


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## Steve Hampton (Feb 13, 2004)

Thanks for the excellent information Roger!

___________________
Steve Hampton

"What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lives within us." 
-Oliver Wendell Holmes


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## 2la (Feb 3, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Roger Miller:
> Sodium and potassium chloride are used to recharge ion exchange water softeners but the chloride from those salts do not end up in the softened water. The chloride is flushed down the sewer during the softener's recharge cycle.


Roger, what anion ends up replacing the chloride in the softened water?

_____


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Roger, what anion ends up replacing the chloride in the softened water?


2la,

The anion composition of the softened water isn't changed. The softener contains a store of sodium or potassium. Calcium and magnesium in the water are traded on an equal-charge basis for sodium or potassium in the softener.

Standard water softeners use the properties of an ion exchange medium to soften water. The medium may be a synthetic version of a naturally-occuring class of minerals called zeolites or any of a number of more expensive polymer beads that share important properties with the zeolites. The crystal structure of zeolite contains large (on an atomic scale) channels that are lined with sites where a cation is loosely bound by an electrostatic charge. Those are the exchange sites.

The size of the charge and the dimension of the exchange sites cause some cations to be more strongly bound to the medium than are others. Potassium -- a large ion with a single charge -- is bound more loosely than magnesium, which is a small ion with a double charge. When a water softener is built the medium usually contains sodium bound in those sites. This is in contrast to deionizers that are built with hydrogen ion bound in the exchange sites.

In normal operation hard water runs through the medium. Calcium and magnesium in the water are more strongly bound to the medium than is the original sodium, so the calcium and magnesium ions replace the sodium in the exchange sites. The calcium and magnesium stay in the softener and the sodium is released into the water. The anions that accompany the calcium and magnesium in the hard water are not changed.

Calcium and magnesium build up in the zeolite and the effectiveness of the exchange medium is reduced. The medium has to be recharged. That is done by running a brine solution of either sodium chloride or potassium chloride through the softener. The high concentration of sodium or potassium in the recharging brine reverses the usual chemical reaction; sodium or potassium from the water replaces calcium and magnesium in the exchanger. Sodium and potassium stay in the softener and calcium and magnesium are released into the water. The chloride in the recharge brine is not changed. The used recharge brine with the calcium, magnesium and chloride in it is routed down the sewer.

If you use a water softener on a septic tank system then the recharge cycle can dump a lot of salt out through the leach field. Around here that is a problem.

Roger Miller
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http://www.picturetrail.com/2la[/QUOTE]

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_"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein_


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## zeek (Jan 5, 2005)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by daisydog:
> I don't recommend using softened water.
> ... Based on my experience, sodium levels of 120-150 ppm cause some serious problems, whereas 30-40 ppm seems to be ok.


The problem wasn't that the water was too soft... you can add the magnesium and calcium back in anyway. The problem, as you eluded to, was the sodium content. I feel a better solution than your chosen route of bypassing the softner for your source of aquarium water would have been to invest in an RO unit. That would give you more control over the water chemistry, allowing more flexibility in your dosing (especially using PMDD etc).
Granted, the RO setup isn't cheap -- especially when you factor in the automatic shut-off soilenoid and replacement membranes etc, but I think it's worth it to maintain complete control of what's added to the tank.

I have a softner at my home, and utilize an RO unit. My setup fills a 30gal container located under the aquarium where the water sits for a period of 3-5 days before it's utilized. I can then dose everything I need to bring my Mg, Ca, and other levels to the target amount.

Isaac
zeek.dynip.com


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

If you use RO it isn't usually necessary to use chemicals to bring the mix back up the a good hardness. Just mix the RO water with tap water to get the right levels.

Roger Miller

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_"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein_


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## 2la (Feb 3, 2003)

Thanks, Roger. I wasn't sure if water softeners were pure cation exchangers or both anion and cation exchangers. As always a more complete answer than the question asked!

_____


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## daisydog (Feb 6, 2003)

zeek,

I never wanted soft water. It's just that the way the house was plumbed caused the water to my fish tank sink to be soft. I've never had a problem with using hard water. My problem was with the excess sodium in the soft water. I think bypassing my water softener was the best solution for me because it solved my problem (excess sodium) with the least expense. Getting an RO unit would have cost more, and I don't really want soft water for my fish tank anyway.


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## zeek (Jan 5, 2005)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Roger Miller:
> If you use RO it isn't usually necessary to use chemicals to bring the mix back up the a good hardness. Just mix the RO water with tap water to get the right levels.


Maybe I'm too much of a control freak (aren't all aquarists?) but again, having control of exactly what goes into the water column is a real plus. It's much easier to maintain the targeted composition and make adjustments.
Also, adding tap water also introduces the sodium back into the equation. That's the downfall of using a water softner, the additional sodium content. I don't use tap water on my houseplants for this very reason. Sure, one could use potassium cloride -- but the longterm costs associated with that makes it worthwhile to go the RO route.

Isaac


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