# Rimless 75 gallon - close loop filter



## helgymatt

Hi everyone,

So it's spring break and since I'm not in Florida, Mexico, or Jamaica enjoying the sunshine, I have nothing to do with my time but spend countless hours on forums trying to plan my next aquarium. I would be enjoying my time outdoors this week, but unfortunately March weather in Iowa is not cooperating.

In a few months I'll be buying a 75 gallon rimless aquarium....likely from glasscages.com Rather than having filter intakes and outakes hanging over the top of the tank, I want to install bulkheads and keep everything OUT of sight.

Although I want to do everything right the first time to have adequate filtration power and flow throughout the tank, I want to maintain some kind of budget. This means not buying the Cadillac system, and not buying the geo metro, but the middle class system. If that makes any sense at all!

The tank bottom will be 48"X18" (your standard 75 high).

Here are things I am trying to decide on:

1. Have 2 or 4 holes drilled? With four holes I would have an intake on each side and outtake on each side. I'm thinking this would give me the best overall flow, but I hate the idea of having to drill more holes that needed and buying more bulkheads and then trying to hide them later on. Two holes would allow for 1 intake and 1 outtake.

2. Filtration. This is what I am really stuck on. I want GOOD flow so how much or how big of a canister filter do I need? I don't know much about head pressure and all that so if someone could explain this that would be great. If I have 4 bulkheads I would likely install 2 canister filters....probably something like 2 xp3 or xp4's. I have also been thinking about getting one (or two if I should) ocean clears with an external pump. There are so many different ocean clears and pumps that I don't know where to start. Tom Barr has done this on his tank... 
http://www.barrreport.com/general-p...lon-rimless-starfire-wood-scape-thus-far.html. Is one ocean clear going to provide enough biological and mechanical filtration? If so, what would be the best solo ocean clear? 
I will also be running a heater and co2 reactor inline with this system.

I have been struggling to find ideas and pictures of peoples closed systems like this. I thought this would be a good opportunity for people to share photos of systems they have done and provide some details about experiences. Ideas for what works and what would be done differently would help a lot. I'm also interested in what people have done for lighting on rimless 75 tanks. I have thought about a generic version of TEK lamps or build a wood frame and install the DIY AHsupply compacts I currently have on my 55. I would then suspend this over the aquarium.

And lastly, I would eventually like a nice stained oak stand, but that may have to wait a year or two, especially since I still live in an apartment and would want to wait to stain something NICE until I settle down somewhere more permanently. I also am not a master woodworker, and would not know how to build NICE oak stand, and I do not have the money right now to buy one. I do think I can build something decent with MDF,etc. and some black paint to go along with my minimalist rimless style. Here is something I may try to replicate... http://images.google.com/imgres?img...nw=103&prev=/images?q=rimless+tank&um=1&hl=en

The filtration is the most important issue to me right now, but feel free to make comments suggestions about the rest of the topics I have brought up.

Thanks a lot,


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## CraigThor

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

I currently use a sump. I like the possibilities over a canister and easy of maintence. With bulkheads you could easily hide everything. I have a DIY 100 micron filter sock that has a tube hanging below water level in my sump so there is no oxygenation with it. I also keep all of my bio material submersed in a egg crate/ light diffuser box. I built my sump for very little from a 29g tank. Here is the break down on my costs:

DIY PVC overflow(don't need with built in overflows): $20

DIY Sump: $98

29g Tank $50
2.5g bioballs: $25 bought 5g for $50.
Eggcrate material: $12
DIY 100 micron filter sock: $16

Return pump: Quiet One 2200 ~600 gph at 0 head $20 used

DIY PVC Reactor: $15

DIY Spraybar: $10

Misc PVC ball valves/ odds and ends: $20

Total: $183

Add in a Rex Griggs Best Damn Regulator/ Mix of Ferts for PPS classic with a used 5lb filled CO2 tank from a local distrubuter: $300

For $500 I have a massive Filtration with a sweet CO2 setup. I will be starting the PPS Classic dosing this weekend as I need to find some good mixing bottles.

I can post as many pics as you need of my system there are also some in the aquascaping forum with the thread I started yesterday. I can give you whatever help you need also as I love DIY stuff.

Craig


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## helgymatt

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

I have been told you can't use bottom of tank bulkheads in sump situations....Not sure why, but I think Tom Barr said this somewhere. If someone knows otherwise, please speak up!

Although that looks like a very nice filtration system...I am all about simplicity! That looks like a lot of "stuff", and to me a canister would be much more user friendly.

Thanks for sharing your set-up Craig!


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## CraigThor

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*



helgymatt said:


> I have been told you can't use bottom of tank bulkheads in sump situations....Not sure why, but I think Tom Barr said this somewhere. If someone knows otherwise, please speak up!
> 
> Although that looks like a very nice filtration system...I am all about simplicity! That looks like a lot of "stuff", and to me a canister would be much more user friendly.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your set-up Craig!


You would have to run a pipe straight up to the tank water level you want, I also know glassccages can build a glass overflow higher up on the back wall. They have soe pictures of it somewhere on their site.

Craig


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## Diana K

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

If you want to stick with canisters you do not need a drilled tank. However, If you do want a drilled tank, @ 4' long, I would have 4 holes. 
I have seen some very nice planted tanks with a spray bar at the top of each end, aimed just a little downwards. The surface ripples just enough to keep away any surface scum. 
I have run 2 canisters (Fluval 404s) on a 125 gal. They were not quite enough for what I wanted to do so I added a sump. I would not go with Fluvals, any more, though. Rena XP3 seems better. 
My 72 gallon bowfront has a Fluval 404, a small Eheim (more like I am keeping it cycled, it is worthless on this size tank as a filter) and a sump with a 300 gph pump.


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## helgymatt

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

Does anyone use ocean clear filters?


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## helgymatt

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

So I purchased a iwaki 882 gph pump and an ocean clear 340. It should arrive next week. I also ordered a glass cages rimless 75 gallon with two bulkhead holes on the bottom of the tank. $300 shipped...that seems like such a good deal! I almost got their stand, but I can't spend any more money right now. I think I'll build my own stand with MDF and paint it black.

I don't plan to set-up the 75 for a few months, but I might hook up the pump and filter to my 55 to get the biofilter going. I'm sure I'll have to tame this thing down on a 55 or else it will be like the Colorado river in there!


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## jazzlvr123

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

I use an ocean clear for my 75 gallon and its by far the best filtration ive ever had on a tank mainly becuase you get to choose the pump you want to run the water through. eheims, fluvals, XP4's circulation rates all die after prolonged use. add a RIO or quiet one pump and you'll never have to worry about your circulation slowing dieing, and if it ever does all you have to do is replace the pump not the entire filter which can be way more costly. so to sum it up ocean clear is by far my favorite closed loop system available most people use it for salt but it works great for FW plated tanks becuase there is no such thing as over filtration. either its adequate or not.


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## hoppycalif

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

Please take a lot of photos of the Glasscages tank and let us see what their quality in rimless tanks looks like. I have seen a few photos already, but I keep hearing that their tanks aren't of great quality workmanship.


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## jazzlvr123

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

tom barr got a glasscages tank for his 180 and the 2 things I noticed that the trim work at the top was far from adequate kinda an eye sore and some spots and their silicone work is blotchy and excessive it really took away from the look of the tank. I remember him telling me if he could he would have junked the glasscages tank from the get go and gone with an ADA 180. but im just speaking from one tank I saw maybe the work on yours was better


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## helgymatt

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

I'm getting a 75 rimless glasscages shipped to my town with holes and bulkheads for $300!!! Try to do that with an ADA. I could buy at least 5 of these for how much I would spend on one ADA tank...not to mention how much it would cost me to get an ADA in the midwest. I can handle a little sloppy silicone here and there. I'm just buying what I can afford.

I'll be sure to take LOTs of photos when it comes in two weeks.

And jazz, I'm very excited to get my tank up and running with the ocean clears.


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## orlando

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

Hey keep us posted on how the tank looks, and after you fill that beast up..


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## jazzlvr123

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*



helgymatt said:


> I'm getting a 75 rimless glasscages shipped to my town with holes and bulkheads for $300!!! Try to do that with an ADA. I could buy at least 5 of these for how much I would spend on one ADA tank...not to mention how much it would cost me to get an ADA in the midwest. I can handle a little sloppy silicone here and there. I'm just buying what I can afford.


thats totally cool, not all of us have the money to pay for ADA tanks just remember you get what ya pay for  the silicone job was okay it was the edge work that was the big problem im looking forward to see the job they do on your tank


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## starsunmoon

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

im finding some great info here guys, and thanxs for all the links to all the great tank set ups !! wow, hopefully I can find time to start poting mine!! I am about to get a 90 gallon next week, and im thinking of using the pool filter sna din the frount half threw to the back right corner, then some kind of substrate thrwout the rest of the back, and the other corners, any ideas?? lol, I will be watching and reading this ocean clear sounds like a great filter, I have been looking those up since I have read this post as well !!! thanxs 2 all !!


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## helgymatt

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

My rimless 75 came today from glasscages.com and I want to share some photos of the tank quality, my experiences with glasscages and their customer service, as well as what to expect about shipping.

First, I must say that the tank is very well built. The glass is 1/2" thick on this thing! But, the quality is far from superior. As others have said they are a little messy with their silicone and edge work.

The outside corners have excess silicone that is not pretty. I have begun to scrape some of it off with a razor blade so it will look acceptable. 








































And a final pic of the 55 being replaced and my other 29 gallon planted tank. 









The edges seem to be nicely sanded and smoothed. The inside silicone seams to be good and not too "messy". Again my biggest grip is the silicone on the outside of the tank. This tank cost me $180, not including shipping, so I guess you do get what you pay for.

And now for their "CUSTOMER SERVICE". One word describes it...bad. If you call them on the phone you will be very lucky if you get someone with a friendly happy attitude that makes you feel like they really do care about making a sale and to have a happy customer. When I ordered the tank, I was told that it may be possible to have the tank delivered to my town, which was on the route to the designated delivery point. I live in Ames, IA which is 40 miles north of Des Moines right of the interstate and I thought it would be wonderful if they could just drop it off at a truck stop off the interstate, saving me the trip to Des Moines. In other words, I thought I was getting a favor from them.

The day before the delivery I decided to call glasscages to make sure my tank was built and was going to be scheduled to be delivered and it was. I also asked about whether my tank could be delivered to my town and they had no idea what I was talking about. They said they never do that and it likely won't be possible. I now have to go to Des Moines, which I was OK with, so I asked what time I should be there. I was told that they left a message on my phone a week earlier giving me all of this information. Turns out they wrote my phone number down wrong so I never got the message. I figured OK, mistakes happen. They then told me the delivery was going to be on Sunday morning at 8:00 rather than the scheduled delivery on Saturday. Now I was really unhappy because I had to change all my plans because their "new" driver was having difficulties being on time. I then arranged to have my brother pick up the tank for me in Des Moines at 8:00 and they never showed up. They finally called me at 10:00 and told me they aren't going to be on time. I said, "oh really, I'm so glad you are telling me this now, 2 hrs later." They then told me they would be in Des Moines at 12:30. Well, they never showed up until almost 2:00.

I am still angry about how unacceptable this whole experience was. One person drove from Omaha (which is three hours from Des Moines) to pick up their tank at 8:00 am, and then had to wait 6 hrs to get it. I can only image how ticked they were

This is my experience, they have little idea of what customer service is, but in the end I am fairly happy with the product given the price I paid. I hate to say this, but I would probably do business with them again only because there prices CANNOT be beat.

Let me know if I can provide any more information or if you want more pictures of the tank quality.


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## hoppycalif

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

Thank you for the excellent report! I agree that their price is unbeatable, and the glass does look plenty thick. It will be interesting to see if there is any observable bowing of the front when it is full of water. The silicone cementing job looks terrible, but once you see an ADA tank and see how a good silicone cementing job is done, nothing else looks acceptable. You should be safe in scraping off the outside silicone, and carefully removing the haze left behind.

I would be very upset about having a drilled bottom tank like that, and have to do the first fill with water inside the house, on the stand made for it. That could almost induce a heart attack!

Is the bottom construction typical for "rimless" tanks? I have never seen that done before - the narrow band of extra glass around the periphery. Your stand could have no top at all, save about a two inch wide border around it, since the rest of the top won't contact the tank anyway. I think that might be good.


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## helgymatt

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

I also got my Iwaki pump and Ocean Clear 340. The 340 has a pleaded cartridge and a biocore. http://www.aquariumguys.com/oceanclear.html
This is the Iwaki i got, Iwaki WMD40RLT Water Pump - (American Motor)
http://www.aquariumguys.com/oceanclear.html

I must say this is an amazing filtration system! I will eventually hook this up to my 75 in a closed loop, but to get the biocore going, I hooked it temporarily hooked it up on my 55. At 800gph, this thing is a beast in this tank. My cichlids love it, lots and lots of flow. I think it will be perfect on my 75, which will have an intake on the bottom right and the output on the bottom left with 2 3/4" loc lines with the 3" fan spray.

Here are some pictures of the set-up on my 55
























And happy fishes









I built some inlet and outlet pipes out of PVC, which was very simple.

I would highly recommend this system for anyone wanting great filtration with high flow, without buying multiple overpriced canister filters and power heads. I got the pump used on ebay for $70 and the filter new for $130 (prices include shipping). I have seen these filters used go for under $70 on ebay (I'm still mad I got outbid on a used 340 by a dollar which sold for $51!

For better filtration multiple ocean clear units can be hooked up in series or in parallel. For more info on Ocean Clears see Tom Barr's thread here...http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photo-album/59705-toms-180-wood-scaping.html


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## helgymatt

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*



hoppycalif said:


> Thank you for the excellent report! I agree that their price is unbeatable, and the glass does look plenty thick. It will be interesting to see if there is any observable bowing of the front when it is full of water. The silicone cementing job looks terrible, but once you see an ADA tank and see how a good silicone cementing job is done, nothing else looks acceptable. You should be safe in scraping off the outside silicone, and carefully removing the haze left behind.
> 
> I would be very upset about having a drilled bottom tank like that, and have to do the first fill with water inside the house, on the stand made for it. That could almost induce a heart attack!
> 
> Is the bottom construction typical for "rimless" tanks? I have never seen that done before - the narrow band of extra glass around the periphery. Your stand could have no top at all, save about a two inch wide border around it, since the rest of the top won't contact the tank anyway. I think that might be good.


I'm not too worried about filling this thing up. The build seems to be very good, but you never know. I'm not sure if the bottom construction is typical. I think it is there for more support and strength. 


hoppycalif said:


> Your stand could have no top at all, save about a two inch wide border around it, since the rest of the top won't contact the tank anyway. I think that might be good.


I'm not following you here Hoppy. Are you referring to the stand covering the bottom of the tank with a piece of trim? I plan to have a hanging light fixture, probably a wood box built from 1x4's with my AHsupply lights installed inside.


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## helgymatt

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

Is there any EASY way to get of silicone reside? The razor blade takes it off, but it is very tedious. Any kind of solvent that will only take off the residue, but not affect the seals?


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## hoppycalif

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*



helgymatt said:


> I'm not too worried about filling this thing up. The build seems to be very good, but you never know. I'm not sure if the bottom construction is typical. I think it is there for more support and strength.
> 
> I'm not following you here Hoppy. Are you referring to the stand covering the bottom of the tank with a piece of trim? I plan to have a hanging light fixture, probably a wood box built from 1x4's with my AHsupply lights installed inside.


The tank has or looks like it has a border of glass pieces, about 2 inches wide under the bottom glass, so if you sit that on a stand with a solid, flat wood top, only that border will contact the stand and carry the weight of the tank and its contents. So, why not just cut out a big rectangle of wood from the top of the stand, leaving free access to the bottom of the tank in the stand under the tank?


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## CraigThor

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

Actually I believe that glass is on the inside of the tank. I know I'm more than happy with me 20H though as I'm turning it into a shimp only tank.

Craig


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## helgymatt

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

Yes, the xtra strip of glass is on the inside of the tank.


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## hoppycalif

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

What purpose do the extra glass strips inside the tank serve? I can understand putting them on the outside, but not the inside. The silicone joint at the bottom of the tank is primarily a seal to keep the water in the tank, not a load resisting adhesive. Maybe I'm just confused. I wonder if they do that for drilled tank bottoms only?


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## helgymatt

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

Hoppy, the strips are set back 1/4 inch or so from the main glass panels and the gaps are filled with silicone. I think it is just extra support. Have another look at the photos

The tank has shapped up nicely after an hour or two of tediously cleaning up silicone and residue. I'll post some pics of the stand I build this week soon and the tank should be filled by next week.


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## AaronT

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

Matt - It looks like you setup your Ocean Clear 340 a bit differently than mine. I put the intake hose on the lower barb. Does it make a difference which way the water enters the filter, from the top or the bottom?

BTW: I'm running mine with an Eheim 1260 pump and it's doing great on my 75 gallon tank.


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## helgymatt

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*



AaronT said:


> Matt - It looks like you setup your Ocean Clear 340 a bit differently than mine. I put the intake hose on the lower barb. Does it make a difference which way the water enters the filter, from the top or the bottom?
> 
> BTW: I'm running mine with an Eheim 1260 pump and it's doing great on my 75 gallon tank.


You know I was wondering about this! I did not have a manual so I just guessed and it has been working fine. I found a manual online and it does not say which way it should go. Maybe I missed it. Can anyone else chime in here?


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## Grubs

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*



hoppycalif said:


> What purpose do the extra glass strips inside the tank serve?


I assume strength. My 5x2x2 was constructed this way and I've seen other > 2' deep tanks with this extra "bead" of glass around the inside of the base. I always assumed it was to provide double the glass thickness of bond to the front and back faces of the tank to resist the water pressure that is pushing the sides out and putting that bottom joint under tension.


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## hoppycalif

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*



Grubs said:


> I assume strength. My 5x2x2 was constructed this way and I've seen other > 2' deep tanks with this extra "bead" of glass around the inside of the base. I always assumed it was to provide double the glass thickness of bond to the front and back faces of the tank to resist the water pressure that is pushing the sides out and putting that bottom joint under tension.


That is interesting! I notice that extra thickness of glass strips is only about half the thickness of the rest of the glass. I'm sure Glasscages has a reason for making them like that or they wouldn't be adding that extra work for themselves.

About that filter and how the flow goes through it: Pleated filters like that are designed for the flow to be from the outside in. This is true in general for all such filters, but not necessarily true in every single case, so I think the odds are very high that the upper fitting, which seems to go to the outside of the filter element, is the inlet fitting.


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## AaronT

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*



helgymatt said:


> You know I was wondering about this! I did not have a manual so I just guessed and it has been working fine. I found a manual online and it does not say which way it should go. Maybe I missed it. Can anyone else chime in here?


I used the manual online as well since I got my filter used. I went by the drawing that shows how to backflush the filter. It shows the inlet on the bottom and the outlet as being on top of the filter. Obviously, we dont' have the one wiht the outlet on the very top, but I figured on the side near the top was the next closest thing.


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## helgymatt

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

Quote from Tom Barr...

Helgymatt,

OC says to run it in from the top out the bottom for the canisters.
Other makers suggest the same thing on larger system.

I suppose you can run them in reverse, there's no truly good reason that it cannot be done. But the pleated side allows more detritus in there on the outside where you can see the filth, you cannot see it if you pump water through the bottom to the outside.

I like mechanical filtration, then chem/bio. The backwards method suggest the opposite.

But there's still no real reason why it would not work.

As far as plumbing goes, having a valve and loop to run the filter in reverse can help you a lot by backwashing it.

But the OC's have a drain garden hose connections for this purpose, so hook that up and back wash when you do the water changes every week or two.

I just keep a spare mechanical pleated cartiage around, and bleach the old one for 1-2 days and dechlor to clean them really good after I've run out of back washing options.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## AaronT

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*



helgymatt said:


> Quote from Tom Barr...
> 
> Helgymatt,
> 
> OC says to run it in from the top out the bottom for the canisters.
> Other makers suggest the same thing on larger system.
> 
> I suppose you can run them in reverse, there's no truly good reason that it cannot be done. But the pleated side allows more detritus in there on the outside where you can see the filth, you cannot see it if you pump water through the bottom to the outside.
> 
> I like mechanical filtration, then chem/bio. The backwards method suggest the opposite.
> 
> But there's still no real reason why it would not work.
> 
> As far as plumbing goes, having a valve and loop to run the filter in reverse can help you a lot by backwashing it.
> 
> But the OC's have a drain garden hose connections for this purpose, so hook that up and back wash when you do the water changes every week or two.
> 
> I just keep a spare mechanical pleated cartiage around, and bleach the old one for 1-2 days and dechlor to clean them really good after I've run out of back washing options.
> 
> Regards,
> Tom Barr


That does make sense. I'll reverse it when I get the time.


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## helgymatt

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

I started and finished my stand for this tank this week. I really like how it turned out. I followed plans layed out in this thread on plantedtank.net - http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/61837-biscuitslayers-75-gallon-stand-canopy-build.html. I used the idea for the main frame for the stand using 2x4's with the top and lower shelf being 3/4" sanded plywood. I didn't use the "floaters" described in those plans becasue I don't understand their purpose?!?! Maybe they make it easier to build...it was a sinch for me without them. I just toe screwed my verticle boards into the top and bottom frames. I then sheeted the front and sides in 1/4" oak plywood and the back with hardboard. I then added the 1x4 oak trim on the top and bottom and routed the edges with a 1/8" rounding bit. Finally, I added some corner molding on the corners to cover up the nail holes and the not so nice plywood edges. I got the pre-made doors at Menards (@ $16 each) and added the hide-away hinges. I didn't have the tools to make my own doors so for $16 each I couldn't pass them up. In the end I wish they were a bit bigger, but they work just fine. Then,the stain and three coats of minwax polyacryclic. This is a water-based fast drying poly that my brother had left over from a project and it worked pretty well. 

































I drilled the holes for my bulkheads. 









I have some 3/4" locline that will direct water in two directions from the outflow and I also have a inake screen (not pictured). 








After cleaning up the silicone on the tank, it looks very nice. 

















Once my old tank is gone in a few days this thing is being set-up, but not with plants for a few months. I know, it sucks for me to!


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## hooha

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

very nice setup, very nice stand. You think you can build one for me and deliver it to PA?


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## helgymatt

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

For a nice fee!

Thanks for the nice comments.


hooha said:


> very nice setup, very nice stand. You think you can build one for me and deliver it to PA?


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## hoppycalif

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

That is a beautiful stand, much better than most that I see in LFS. How did you drill the holes for the door hinges? They have to be accurate, so a hand drill doesn't seem to be a way to do it.

The tank looks very good now, so Glasscages is a good source for that type tank, if you are willing to do the clean up work?


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## helgymatt

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*



hoppycalif said:


> That is a beautiful stand, much better than most that I see in LFS. How did you drill the holes for the door hinges? They have to be accurate, so a hand drill doesn't seem to be a way to do it.
> 
> The tank looks very good now, so Glasscages is a good source for that type tank, if you are willing to do the clean up work?


There is a kit to buy for boring those holes. It includes a piece that markes out where to center your bit and then it also includes the right size boring bit. It was really slick and cost about $10. You have to be very carefull not to drill all the way through the wood. My holes must have been very close to that point.

I would agree that glasscages is a good source, but will require some clean up as you said and if you can deal with their less than accomidating and professional customer service.

Funny thing with the right door....I couldn't get it to stain as dark as the rest of the stand. I think a little variation looks OK though.


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## Tex Gal

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

What a wonderful job! I think you could give up your day job!  Can't wait to see the tank up and running.


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## helgymatt

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*



Tex Gal said:


> What a wonderful job! I think you could give up your day job!  Can't wait to see the tank up and running.


Thanks! And you're not the first person to tell me to quite my day job, but then when I show them whats growing in my tank, they still agree that I should stick with being a horticulturalist.


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## Tex Gal

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*



helgymatt said:


> Thanks! And you're not the first person to tell me to quite my day job, but then when I show them whats growing in my tank, they still agree that I should stick with being a horticulturalist.


Well now I know why your tanks look so good... you are a horticulturalist! (Is that cheating?.... )


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## hoppycalif

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*



helgymatt said:


> There is a kit to buy for boring those holes. It includes a piece that markes out where to center your bit and then it also includes the right size boring bit. It was really slick and cost about $10. You have to be very carefull not to drill all the way through the wood. My holes must have been very close to that point.
> 
> I would agree that glasscages is a good source, but will require some clean up as you said and if you can deal with their less than accomidating and professional customer service.
> 
> Funny thing with the right door....I couldn't get it to stain as dark as the rest of the stand. I think a little variation looks OK though.


I have seen those kits on the Rockler website, but I always figure I shouldn't spend that money just to drill two holes. Apparently it is worth it, judging by your success. Thank you!


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## helgymatt

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*



hoppycalif said:


> I have seen those kits on the Rockler website, but I always figure I shouldn't spend that money just to drill two holes. Apparently it is worth it, judging by your success. Thank you!


Yes, I figure the drill bit alone is worth that much.


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## CraigThor

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

Looking good Matt.


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## orlando

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

Like an old Pro! Looks great, cant wait to see the updates.


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## helgymatt

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

Pics coming very soon. I have it up and running. Don't get too excited - no plants for a few months so only gravel, some manzanita and cichlids.

Thanks for all the nice comments. A rimless tank was my dream and now it is finally comming to reality. When it is all said and done it will have costed me WAY more than I wanted, but at least its all in good fun:mrgreen:


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## helgymatt

*Re: Planning a closed loop system on a 75 gallon.*

I said soon so here they are...

My floor was very unlevel so I had to buy shims and a level to get this thing siting right, which was a challenge with my roommate holding the up the 400+lb stand and tank while I try to slide shims underneath in the right spot.


















Hooking up all the PVC, tubing, and equip was fun.

Here is the ball valve, and union coming from the bulkheads. One on each end (intake and output). Unions make it easy to remove certain pieces of equipment for maintenance or replacement. 









The intake first goes to the pump... 









Then to the filter and then inline heater. I really wish inline heaters came in 3/4" connectors. Someday...

























Need some extra light in your stand? Add a leftover cheapo light fixture. 









I regret saying that even with a 800gph pump the flow in this tank is not what I expected. Maybe I will notice it more when I get plants in there. I can think of a few reasons for this
1. I'm using double outputs on my locline. By covering up one output with my finger, the flow (pressure) is much greater in the one not covered. I may just switch take out the Y and use one output. 








2. All of the valves, connectors, unions, 5/8" heater slow the flow

In the end maybe I'll add a powerhead in there, but not unless I HAVE to.

I hope this has been helpful to at least one person. If not, I enjoy sharing all of this anyway. I have a feeling many more people will be setting up tanks with bulkheads and closed system filtration. I love the look of no tubes, cords, or other crap hanging over into the tank. As you can see my intake and output can easily be disguised.

Thats it for now. Next thing I need is a light. For now I'm going to get a shoplight at Lowes and place on top of the tank. They have one that actually looks nice on top of this tank. Later, I'll either build a hanging fixture or get a TEK.


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## CraigThor

matt, are those metal fittings conecting the PVC together? Make sure it is water safe and doesn't leach in to the water if they are.

Craig


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## helgymatt

Yeah there galvanized steel. Not sure if they leach or not? I can't imagine it would have much of an impact. Our city pipes are all steel! I couldn't find any other fittings that were not metal.


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## hoppycalif

That is starting to look very good! I really like the Ocean Clear filter and the hidden plumbing. Did you consider adding some more plumbing so you can drain and refill or back flush the filter and refill, all by switching valves under the tank? To me that would be worth almost any cost.


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## helgymatt

hoppycalif said:


> That is starting to look very good! I really like the Ocean Clear filter and the hidden plumbing. Did you consider adding some more plumbing so you can drain and refill or back flush the filter and refill, all by switching valves under the tank? To me that would be worth almost any cost.


The ocean clears have a drain valve in the bottom of them. I just connect a garden hose, close my filter output valve and let the pump do the work. To fill the tank up, I just hook up the hose to my shower head and fill the thing back up from the filter drain. It takes about 4 minutes to pump out half of the water and another 5-10 or so to fill it back up! Very nice!

I'm having to do this very often (twice a day) because my tank has not cycled. With 14 cichlids in there, the ammonia builds up fast and by morning the fish are gasping at the top. I suspect I'll have to do this for a few weeks because the filter catches up.


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## helgymatt

Although, I can fill drain and fill the tank easily, I don't think I have it set-up to backflush. From what I can tell, the drain valve is just another ouput?? I'll have to look into how I can reverse the flow out the filter input.


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## helgymatt

I'm almost embarrased to say I got a light for this tank, but not really. I went to Lowes and got a Utilitech T8 shoplight. I think it looks pretty nice actually. I especially like it because it the fixture rests on the tank and it has a lip at the end that keeps it from falling in the tank. Good so I don't fry my fish Bulbs are aquaglo. I wish I could use this fixture to grow my plants...it was only $18.


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## orlando

Very nice! I would like to make a suggestion if I may.
This is something I do to all of my tanks and only cost about $9 and looks great.
Next time you go to HD or Lowes. Buy some 9-10' conduit steel tubing I thinks its 3/4" or so. Find the pipe bender in the same isle and bend the ends at a 90.
Then find the conduit mounts in that same isle $.89cents get like 6 of these and bolt them to the back of your stand and you have a sweet light hanging system to hang that light up over the tank.
You can even spray paint them to make them look nice. I have built countless of these light hangers in 20 minutes.
You can find cable hangers as well to hang siad light or use the small chain's the light came with. 
All of this is cheap and safer for you your family and wet pets. If you need more info just PM me if I wasn't clear enough.
Sorry so long folks!


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## helgymatt

orlando said:


> Very nice! I would like to make a suggestion if I may.
> This is something I do to all of my tanks and only cost about $9 and looks great.
> Next time you go to HD or Lowes. Buy some 9-10' conduit steel tubing I thinks its 3/4" or so. Find the pipe bender in the same isle and bend the ends at a 90.
> Then find the conduit mounts in that same isle $.89cents get like 6 of these and bolt them to the back of your stand and you have a sweet light hanging system to hang that light up over the tank.
> You can even spray paint them to make them look nice. I have built countless of these light hangers in 20 minutes.
> You can find cable hangers as well to hang siad light or use the small chain's the light came with.
> All of this is cheap and safer for you your family and wet pets. If you need more info just PM me if I wasn't clear enough.
> Sorry so long folks!


Thanks for the suggestion. I have thought of doing this, but the way this fixture fit over my tank I didn't think it was necessary. When I get a "real" fixture when I plant this tank down the road, I will either do the conduit thing or get some ceiling hangers.

And a side question...can I bend the pipes at Lowes without buying the bender? I hate having to buy things I only use once.


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## orlando

And a side question...can I bend the pipes at Lowes without buying the bender?:smile: I hate having to buy things I only use once

Yes, I do this all the time. They dont mind. In fact one of the workers there offered to help. 
Your fish look very happy in there new home.


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## helgymatt

orlando said:


> Your fish look very happy in there new home.


I'm keeping a very close eye on them for ammonia poisoning because I don't have this thing cycled yet. I've been doing big water changes every day whever I see them start to gasp at the surface. I ran out of my ammonia tests so I just rely on watching the fish. I find that works just as well as trying to read a crappy test kit.

I got a big pile of rocks in the middle of my floor that I'm going to throw in there sometime.


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## hoppycalif

"I got a big pile of rocks in the middle of my floor that I'm going to throw in there sometime."
People who have glass aquariums shouldn't throw rocks.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.


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## helgymatt

Ah...its thick glass. I'm sure it would be fine


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## foofooree

any updates? I would love to see some  I didnt know they had pipe benders, I'm gonna have to make one of those light hangers


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## Tex Gal

Wonder if you should be concerned about the light getting off kilter and going into your tank. With the hanger Orlando spoke of it would not be able to do this. It would certainly be a shock hazard to you, fish, kids, etc. if that were to happen. Doesn't look like you have glass covering the tank. Just a concern.

Good luck with this. The fish look beautiful. Can't wait to see how your rock tank turns out.


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## helgymatt

No updates yet because the tank is not planted. I think in 2 or 3 weeks it should be just planted. I'll start a new journal in the aquascape thread then.


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## foofooree

helgymatt said:


> No updates yet because the tank is not planted. I think in 2 or 3 weeks it should be just planted. I'll start a new journal in the aquascape thread then.


YAY, the tank isnt dead! I look forward to the updates


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## Diana K

Galvanized pipe may have zinc on the surface. The small surface that is exposed to the water may not make a big impact on the tank, though. Depends on the water chemistry. 

Simply from a plumbing note: threading male metal parts into female plastic parts can lead to overtightening the connection and cracking the plastic. There are all sorts of plastic fittings instead of using the galvanized parts you have used. If Lowes does not carry them other hardware stores might, or a plumbing store might. An irrigation store will carry these parts. 

How is the cycling going? Maybe too late now, but is Bio Spira available near you? This would add a big dose of the proper nitrifying bacteria to the tank. 
I would also toss those rocks in (carefully ;- 0 ) for a greater surface for the nitrifying bacteria to grow on.


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## helgymatt

The tank is well cycled by now! I feel that if I get everything moved and set-up with plants quickly I can keep my bacteria going in my filter in order to not have to completely recycle the thing. 

I do a 50% weekly water change so I am not so concerned about the small piece of galvanized pipe. I was extra careful not to over tighten anything. No leaks in 3 months so I think everything should be OK. Maybe I'll change out some of the metal pieces once I make the move. 

What is Bio Spira? I'm guessing some kind of cycling booster.


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## Diana K

When scientists first started studying the microorganisms that live in an aquarium filter they found several that seemed to be the ones responsible for turning ammonia and nitrite into nitrate. The bacteria they found had a dormant stage, were easily bottled and had a reasonably long shelf life. Unfortunately these are the wrong bacteria. However, these are the ones that you will find in most cycle assisting products. Even if they are not specifically labeled as to what species of bacteria, they are often labeled, "Use with every water change"- Hint: These bacteria do not hang around in the filter. 

Marineland started making some investigations and growing microorganisms in different ways and found the bacteria that are the real workhorses in a filter. They also found that these bacteria do not have a dormant phase, and had to be kept cool (not frozen) in transit and until used in an aquarium. These shipping and handling concerns have created problems and reports of failure when using Bio Spira: it either froze or cooked somewhere in the loop. They have been working on this problem so the material does not need to be refrigerated and will have a longer shelf life. 
It is, however an excellent way to cycle a new tank: Add Bio Spira, let it circulate for a short time, then add fish. The first week might show very minor blips of ammonia or nitrite, then the cycle is finished.
I think there are at least 3 companies, maybe 4 packaging these bacteria now.
For more info have a look at Marineland's web site.
Tetra makes a product with the correct bacteria, but I think it is only available in Europe.
Fritz' Turbostart seems to also promote fast cycling, but is not labeled for content. 
The scientist at Marineland that did a lot of the work developing Bio Spira might have a similar product on the market called something like 'The One and Only' You might google this with the name Tim Hovanek (I think that is the spelling) 

Another way to grow these bacteria is in a fishless cycle. This is a very good way to avoid the stress and damage tot he fish caused by a fish-in cycle. You said the fish were gasping at the surface, and the ammonia was high (until you ran out of test strips). The fish were gasping because the ammonia is burning their gills, and they cannot breath. After the ammonia removing bacteria grow to a big enough population the nitrite spikes. This causes Brown Blood Disease which can also kill the fish. (Google it, too) The end result is fish that have had such stress that they may always be unthrifty, short lived, sensitive to minor problems. The damage from the ammonia in the gills may only partially heal. 

Using either a fishless cycle or Bio Spira is a lot faster, and much safer for the fish.


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## helgymatt

Thanks for the very good information Diana! Although the tank is cycled now, I understand what you mean about the fish having permanent damage. I recently have had a few losses for unknown reasons. Maybe that is from previous damage from the ammonia, there is no way to know for sure. Recently, a couple of those cichlids have figured out how to jump out of the tank, almost like they are attacking me. I'm not sure if they are angry about their past or if they are really hungry! One of those that jumped out later died a few days later, maybe from head trauma. I'll be getting rid of these fish soon so make room for more plant friendly species so hopefully no more try to commit suicide. If I was keeping them in there for the long term I would invest in some kind of glass or acrylic top.

When I move this tank I think I'll go out and look for some Bio Spira!


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