# Where is the hardness coming from?????



## stcyrwm (Apr 20, 2005)

Hi All,

I have been snooping around for a week and I have appreciated all the information here. Now I have some questions. My "anubias nana" are turning yellow (older leaves) and curling. Water sprite also yellowing and curling but not as badly. Water onions, java moss, bacopa moneiri, rotala indica, and hornwort all seem OK but not flourishing. My LFS says the problem is related to extremely hard water. 
Here is the info I have:
Tank: 37 g tall
Filter Eheim Ecco
Substrate: .5" gravel, 2.5" flourite
Lighting: AH supply 2-55watt comp flourescent
CO2: Jungle Fizz Factory
GH: 340 ppm
KH: 54ppm
pH: 6.7
Nitrates: 5 ppm
Just started dosing Flourish, Flourish Iron & FLourish Trace per instructions.
Starting to dilute with distilled water to lower GH.
No algae problems. Fish are doing well (6 white clouds, 6 harlequin rasboras, 3 siamese algae eaters, 2 false sae's, 6 ghost shrimp, 2 cherry shrimp)

Questions:
Is hardness likely the problem?
Where is the hardness coming from? (My tap water is only 125ppm GH) The only other thing I have in tank is a log. Could it be from that?
Can I use a softener rather than distilled water?
Will distilled water cause any other problems?

Thanks, 
Bill


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## Plattykins (Apr 3, 2005)

Could be the hard water, but you may want to look over the information in this link before you consider hard water as the only problem. You started dosing fertilizers, so hold off on changing anything else for a bit until you're sure that the problem isn't a nutrient deficiency. You may find that your ferts will solve part of the problem for you.

There is a nice chart toward the bottom of the page.

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm

The log would serve to soften the water. Distilled water lacks minerals and you might find you are adding to the problem if you use it. That is, you may have to further supplement to make up for what is missing.

Here is a good article about adjusting water chemistry. Certainly, your tap water is not considered hard, though what is in the tank certainly is, by the reading you gave.

http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-chem.html


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

With that lighting you will need a better source of CO2. I would recommend a pressurized setup but you could also go with DIY 2x2liter soda bottles and change one bottle each week. The fizz factory wil lnot do much. Do a search for DIY CO2 and you will learna lot about it in no time

Most likely your problem lies in the lack of nutrients. IF you just started dosing ferts, I am sure your plants were getting very deficient and have used up their internal stores of extra nutrients. Plants can store nutrients like we store fat or camels water. Make sure you are maintaining nutrient levels of 10ppm NO3, 1-1.5ppm PO4 and the Flourish, trace and Fe based on the instructions. Give that 3 weks and see if there is an improvement.


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## Plattykins (Apr 3, 2005)

One other thing... you don't happen to have shells or pieces of coral in your tank or filter do you? Those items will increase the GH.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

I don't think the hardness is the problem. As to where it is coming from, try taking some gravel (not the flourite) out of the tank and putting it in a glass of water for a few days. If it is the gravel causing the GH to rise the water in the glass will also have a higher GH. I ould think it is the gravel raising your GH. Trenac had a similar problem with her grave, but I think it was raising her KH. Her gravel was Top Fin brand I think. Here is a link to that post:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=5179&highlight=rising+KH

A softener will reduce the calcium and magnesium (GH) in your water but may also add Sodium Chloride which can be even worse for the plants. That is unless you use Potassium Chloride in your water softener (I do). I think either way you may add adding chloride ions to the water which is probably worse than the hardness.

Like Dennis suggested, you probably need more CO2 and fertilizers. What is you PO4 level, if you have a test for that.

While hard water can be bad for some fish, it doesn't affect many type of plants and not the ones you are keeping. How does the health of the plants look at your LFS. I would check that out before I trust their plant advice very much 

Out of curiosity, are you using a dechlorinator when you do water changes?


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## stcyrwm (Apr 20, 2005)

*CO2 levels etc.*

CO2 levels are about 18 ppm if I'm reading the charts correctly(ph 6.7 & KH 54ppm). Isn't that a reasonable amount? I'm using the chart from "Chuck's Planted Aquaria Pages".

I don't have a PO4 test kit yet. I'll get one this week if I can find it.

Tap water is carbon filtered twice for chlorine removal but I also use "Stress Coat" per instructions.

No other decorations or shells in tank. Eheim has pads and "Substrat Pro" filter media in it.

Plants at LFS seem to be in good shape - certainly better than mine. Owner seems fairly knowledgable especially compared to all the other LFS who at best know nothing. He did mess up the Siamese Algae Eater identification and sold me the false type. He was using the Baensch Atlas of Aquarium Fish which misidentifies them, so who can really blame him. I love the SAE's by the way.

Gravel could be from Topfin. I'll check where I bought it this week. It is buried under 2 plus inches of very dusty Flourite so I will probably leave it be at least for now.

Sounds like from the feedback I'm getting that noone else is concerned the water is "too" hard. I hope I haven't messed up diluting with distilled water. I'll keep testing and watch the nutrient levels and see how it goes. Thank you all for the feedback.

Bill


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