# Wisconsin native ID



## neonfish3

*Wisconsin native ID update w/ flowers*

I've been trying to figure out the name of this plant for over a year now. Still don't know what it is. It was collected locally in a small pond near Lake Michigan in Milwaukee county. Willow Way-Grant Park to be specific. I found the plant just sprouting in spring of last year. In about 1" to 12" in. of water.








I brought it home and planted it in my 55 gal. tank w/ Schultz Clay soil conditioner substrate, DIY hood, and CO2.








Thats after about 5 days growth! The plant did very well. It would grow fairly slowly strait up towards the surface. It didn't like pruning very much as the bottom section if left rooted wouldn't often re-sprout.








My number of stems of the plant I have really hasn't increased. I finally let the plant grow out of the water this year to try and get it to flower and maybe help me ID it.

























It still hasn't flowered, but a very beautiful plant. To bad I can't see it unless I take the canopy off.
I'm pretty sure I have it mislabeled in some of my pics as: Comb-leaved Mermaid-weed, Proserpinaca pectinata. Now that I let it grow emersed, I'm sure thats not it.
Anyone have any ideas what it is?
Ive looked in many plant databases:

http://wisplants.uwsp.edu/scripts/Searchcategory.asp?category=Aquatic&LIM=0&sortop=Taxa

http://plants.usda.gov/index.html

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/1999/vascplnt/vascplnt.htm#contents

Great resources all of them, but I can't find my plant. Any help appreciated.

Steve T.








This outdoor in my pond. It's been blooming a couple weeks now. Still dont know what the .... it is! Anyone want some?


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## Cavan Allen

Looking at the submersed foliage, I thought at first that it might be a _Gratiola_ , but now I'm not so sure. What is the leaf arrangement?

Do you have a local botanical society? I think that would be a good bet. Maybe a local university.


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## neonfish3

The leaves are lance shaped to ovate, sawtoothed. They are arranged in an alternate pattern. I did write a letter to a Prof. at the UWM Madison asking for help with ID but I didn't get a reply.

Thanks for looking and trying to help.

Steve T.


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## neonfish3

this is sooooooo close.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/propalbg.gif&imgrefurl=http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/propal.html&h=310&w=240&sz=62&tbnid=01QJOvjS1LUJ:&tbnh=111&tbnw=86&hl=en&start=9&prev=/images%3Fq%3DProserpinaca%2Bpalustris%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D

I think thats it. I was very close in my ID of Proserpinaca.
Agree or disagree?

Steve T.


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## Error

I disagree.

At first glance I thought it was Limnophila aromatica. I kept a plant that looked very similar to yours and it turned out to be that.

Diligent searching on the web should provide a name, eventually. Personally, I'd start searching for lists of Wisconsin palustrine or aquatic plants.


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## cS

I don't think it's a _Proserpinaca_ because the plant is much too large to be part of that genus IMHO. Instead, it looks like a giant _Ludwigia_ to me. _L. uruguayensis/peruviana_ is the only one I could google that noted a toothed leaf. Unfortunately, it doesn't list the plant's range to be as far north as Wisconsin. Doddlebug!



neonfish3 said:


> http://wisplants.uwsp.edu/scripts/Searchcategory.asp?category=Aquatic&LIM=0&sortop=Taxa


Oh wow! What a great resource of local plants. :O There are a lot of interesting and beautiful plants on there. I am particularly interested in the various _Isoetes spp._ and the _Elatine minima_. I'm drooling. :mrgreen:


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## Error

cS said:


> Oh wow! What a great resource of local plants. :O There are a lot of interesting and beautiful plants on there. I am particularly interested in the various _Isoetes spp._ and the _Elatine minima_. I'm drooling. :mrgreen:


I too have been wondering about the miniscule Elatine minima and whether or not it is suitable for aquarium cultivation.

cS, have you any idea where to look for it? Allegedy, it grows here in Michigan, but I must confess that I've never seen it anywhere.


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## cS

I have no clue what kind of environment where one would find it Error. Neonfish3 and you would know more about the region than I could ever hope to. Your brutal winters are death to my people. I think even your summers would be too cold for me. :mrgreen: But I did a search on the USDA database and found a distribution map. These locations would be the best places to start looking if I were in the area.









http://www.botany.wisc.edu/wisflora/scripts/detail.asp?SpCode=ELAMIN#Maps


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## Error

Hmm.

I wonder how much difference it would make if the specimens were collected from more southern latitudes.

Evolutionarily (is that a word?) speaking, I find it likely that plants from, say, Virginia would be more suited to warm water than those from northern Wisconsin.


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## neonfish3

update w/ flower pic above.

Still dont know, but it grows all over the place here. Had it in my outdoor tank, but removed it because it got too large. Put it in my pond to finish the season. I'm going to let it finish its life cycle. I know where to get more.
Steve T.


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## Cavan Allen

http://www.missouriplants.com/Whiteopp/Mitreola_petiolata_page.html

???

Upon further review, it looks like you're a tad outside the given range for this plant. It's not impossible for it to be in Wisconsin I guess. It could always be a related species.


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## Cavan Allen

http://www.missouriplants.com/Others/Penthorum_sedoides_page.html

How about that one then?


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## neonfish3

YAHOO, YIPEE, YEAH,               
THATS IT!!!!!
*Ditch Stonecrop (Penthorum sedoides) *
Thank You Cavan!
*Interesting Info:**T*his is the only species we have in this genus and it is the only member of the Crassulaceae family that is not a succulent. Think of sedums, jade plant.

_Astringent; Demulcent; Laxative; Tonic._ A tincture of the plant is somewhat astringent, demulcent, laxative and tonic[4, 61, 222]. The plant is noted for its effectiveness in treating catarrhal problems of many kinds and has also been used successfully in treating diarrhoea, haemorrhoids and infantile cholera[4].

The seeds have been used in making cough syrups[222, 257].

The flowers were very plain, but the seeds are getting a nice red color like this:








I'm so happy now! Now I can sleep at night!
Thanks again,
Steve T.


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## Cavan Allen

Cool!  I'm glad I could help.


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## miremonster

There is a second species: 
*Penthorum chinense*. Very similar to _P. sedoides_, but with narrower, willow-like leaves. Also classified as a subspecies or variety of _P. sedoides_.
East Asia, from Russian Far East in the north to Vietnam, Thailand and Laos in the south:
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200010148

In this photo of a cultivated plant reddish sprouts are visible beneath in the water:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Penthorum_chinense3.jpg
May be interesting for submersed cultivation, too.

Btw., _Penthorum_ has been placed in Crassulaceae as well as in Saxifragaceae and an own family, Penthoraceae. In cladistic analyses _Penthorum_ turns out to be closer related to Haloragaceae (i.a. _Myriophyllum_ and _Proserpinaca_) than to Crassulaceae. Consequently taxonomists now favour the family Penthoraceae for the genus _Penthorum_.
http://www.mobot.org/MOBOT/Research/Apweb/orders/saxifragalesweb.htm


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## Cavan Allen

Interesting stuff. That was definitely on my to-do list as far as the family goes (_Scrophulariaceae_ too, but that's another story).

It appears that there are upright and creeping aquatic forms of _P. sedoides_. It's fairly common, but wild submersed specimens don't usually look very good! They are frequently covered in algae or riddled with holes made by snails. I found some yesterday and barely recognized it.


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## miremonster

Scrophulariaceae, oh my god... seems to be still a building site... at the moment I don't know in which strange families they have put e.g. Micranthemum and Bacopa 


> It appears that there are upright and creeping aquatic forms of P. sedoides.


 Interesting; perhaps they would grow different also in tanks!


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