# Surface Turbulance



## greatalbu (Apr 6, 2007)

Hi all, another post.
I have a power head for my ugf and a hang on the back box filter.
They both provide great surface agitation. Creating very good oxygen exchange for my critters and beneficial bacteria.
I suppose this will also create loss of co2 from my tank when I set up my DIY system.
Correct?
I suppose I will have to create more co2 because its being lost through surface agitation until I have the proper 20-30 ppm becuase I have about 120 watts light in my 30g.
I want to get the ceramic disc type of co2 diffuser. This creates smaller bubbles,no?
Thanks.


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

The powerhead and hob breaking the water surface will add to the outgassing of your co2, the ugf will be a pain cause your plants will take root into them.

you can try and up your co2 till you are able to get the desired ppm's but with outgassing the rate will be much higher using more co2. with ~4wpg I would make sure you have the 30ppm's along with good fert dosing to keep from having problems. 

I use a glass/ceramic disc diffuser and I like them... I have 2-3 of the same ones and switch off when it's time to clean them but yes they do diffuse the co2 into tiny bubbles making it easier to dissolve into the water column.


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## freydo (Jan 7, 2006)

as long as you ensure the water level is high enough under the water outlet of your HOB filter, you shouldn't see too much outgassing of co2.

and i agree with eklikewhoa's assessment regarding the UG filter, especially if you have large root plants.


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

any chance of aiming the powerhead away from the surface a bit? to ease up on surface disturbance...


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## greatalbu (Apr 6, 2007)

I can aim power head away from surface but my critters need oxygen. I'd be concerned of my fish suffocating. I'd have to monitor for a weekend to feel comfortable. I will give it a try if I must.
Thanks.


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

I don't run an air pump (or any other form of surface disturbance, as to give higher rate of oxygen exchange) on any of my tanks, whether way over-planted, or just a couple plants. If the plants are doing well, then more than enough oxygen will be produced. In my personal experience, I've found it unnecessary to have any more surface disturbance other than a slight ripple, so that I don't get a protein film buildup.


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## greatalbu (Apr 6, 2007)

Do you have fish in the tanks. If so how many?size?types?
Thanks.


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

1) 120 gal 
Fish: black ghost knife, 6 glass catfish, 3 bosemani rainbows, 7 prestilla tetras, 4 siamese algae eater, 3 green / 2 albino / 5 julii corydoras, red tail shark, 2 florida flag fish, 6 celebes rainbows, 12 cardinal tetras, 8 guyana tetras, 2 roseline sharks, rubberlip pleco, clown pleco, 10-15 otocinclus, 60+ mystery snails, 3 killifish (unknown specie)

2) 75 gal 
14in oscar, 10in lima shovelnose, black convict, 2 pictus catfish, leporinus, 2 blue gouramis

3) 10 gal
5 black skirt tetras, unknown rainbow, unknown killifish

4) 10 gal
cherry shrimp and japanese trap door snails

5) 29 gal
yellow-belly slider, 5 in blugill, apple snail


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## greatalbu (Apr 6, 2007)

Very interesting that the plants produce enough oxygen for you denizens of the deep.
I never would have thought that the plants could do that.Are the tanks heavily forested. Say for example how much volume would your plants occupy in the 120g.
I've heard of pearling. would this apply only to plant tanks only?
Thanks.


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

Here's a pic of the 120g


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## freydo (Jan 7, 2006)

yes... pearling only applies to a planted tank. it's a result of the plants photosynthesizing and are saturated with oxygen, and are expelling the O2. i think that's right 

and to echo evercl92, as long as you have a good mass of healthy plants, you would be producing sufficient amounts of oxygen for your fish/inverts. running your power-head the way it is, the real benefit is that you're preventing the protein surface film from developing. but you're also out-gassing all of the co2 you're injecting into your tank, so you would need to inject even more co2 to compensate for the loss. 

as for how much plant mass to have in a tank, i seem to remember Bert H mentioning somewhere around 75% of your tank to be considered heavily planted. but don't quote me on that.


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...quariums/14684-new-tank-set-up-parts-1-a.html

Here is the thread that Freydo is referring to.


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

greatalbu said:


> would this apply only to plant tanks only?


pearling is defined here.

Yeh, plastic plants don't produce that much O2.


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