# CO2..Incredibly frustrated... PLEASE HELP ME!!



## ara35 (Oct 12, 2008)

Okay, this is about my 2nd or 3rd week trying to get the DIY Co2 working. and as you can tell.. its not. i tried it with making extra small holes... leaked. so i bought bulkhead fittings... leaked. i do not understand how to stop air from escaping and also, it doesnt even seem like it works when i squeeze the bottle and let it flow through the tubing. i used a 2 liter bottle, some check valves and then a glass reactor. http://www.aquacave.com/co2-reactor-100-brby-aquamedic-1142.html
its so frustrating to even write this cause i know its not gonna work no matter what i do. the bottle is located on the ground, does that make a difference? what can i possibly do to fix this. PLEASE HELP BECAUSE IM CONSIDERING BUYING FAKE PLANTS WHICH IS NOT WHAT I WANT AT ALL!!!


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## grim (Mar 13, 2008)

from my limited knowledge i do know that some of the glass diffusers ceramic discs are just to fine for the diy co2 to build up enough pressure i use a very small nail and just punch a hole in the cap of the two litter bottle cut the airline tubing at an angle stick the pointed end in the hole pull it threw with a pair of pliers and i have never had a leak i have this setup on three different tanks i was just wondering if your two litter bottle is really hard or not can you take a picture of your full setup


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Grim is right about the glass diffuser requiring more pressure than DIY can provide (unless you have two large bottles going).

Here is my DIY set up ( post#15 ) :
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/51836-davemonkey-s-50-gal-journal-2.html

I use 1-gallon orangejuice jugs since I have a larger tank and I double the recipe in them. I just punched a nail through like grim is saying and pulled the tubing through. If it is 'too easy' and you think the hole may be too big, you can seal with some aquatic sealant, but that will degrade over time.

It usually takes a few hours for fresh sugar/yeast to build up pressure and send CO2 through the tube.

-Dave

EDIT: I forgot to mention. I tried using a 2 liter bottle once and the cap was very hard. When I poked the hole with the nail, there was a VERY TINY crack beside the hole. It was enough leak out all the CO2 pressure, so maybe that has happened to you?


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## ara35 (Oct 12, 2008)

so is the diffuser a waste then??


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## grim (Mar 13, 2008)

i have never used that diffuser so i cant speak for it did you check your bottle to see if it is hard i cant really help till i know that if the bottle is really hard then yes the diffuser most likely wont work for awhile till i got a glass diffuser that did work i just ran the tube into my intake on my filter and let the hob filter do the work it did work a little but i wasn't getting everything outa the diy co2 i could also hear the bubbles going through the the filter my co2 bottle is also on the ground and i have never had a problem


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

ara35 said:


> so is the diffuser a waste then??


No. It will work if you have more CO2 being pushed through the tubing (add another bottle of DIY, or use more yeast to increase CO2 production...but the sugar will be used up sooner) . Keep in mind, though, that you will need a "filter" bottle or a bubble counter in-line to catch all the DIY "snot" so that it does not clog the diffuser.

Even if you decide to go without the diffuser for your DIY, hang on to it in case you switch to pressurized one day. Or you could sell it.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Look at this thread: Check out post #89 It works. 
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/44053-tiny-super-efficient-co2-reactor-9.html

I have the little CO2 reactor (that this thread is about) in my 29g and it works great. I have the little wooden skewer with DIY in my 10g. It works great. I had originallly used a glass diffuser like you have. It clogged very very fast. They are very difficult to clean. I don't think they are worth using. The wooden piece is cheap and I can replace it for pennies. It's small so it hides behind my plants. It makes fine bubbles.

Good luck! PS. I drilled the hole in my bottle cap - I didn't punch it. I have no leaks. I had DIY on three tanks and no leaks on any of them.


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## ara35 (Oct 12, 2008)

is it just a toothpick puncturing the tube


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

Tex Gal said:


> Look at this thread: Check out post #89 It works.
> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/44053-tiny-super-efficient-co2-reactor-9.html


Hey that was my post! Sweeeeet!! However, contrary to the claims made by me in that thread, there really is nothing wrong with the glass diffusors in a DIY situation. It's just a matter of getting it right... Curious, what type of hose are you using? Is it the silicone type or the cheap, stiff hose? I just wonder, because, I can't understand how you are getting leaks around the silicone tube (if that's what you are using). You can also buy CO2 specific hose, if you are prepared to fork out a little more, but the silicone should be fine...

Do a test. Unhook your diffusor and just let the open hose sit in your tank. This is just to see if you are actually getting any gas production at all. If this proves OK, you are one step closer to success. Did you follow my advice in your other Thread (actually,why start another thread on the same topic??) and get rid of all the unnecessary fittings? One other thing. Do you have more than one diffusor? I bought three off ebay, it took me a week to work out that two were, not duds, as such, just less operative. I now just reuse the same diffusor, cos I know it works well.

There really is no reason for you to be having this much trouble. I think you have overlooked something... Just relax and try to break the system down into it's various parts, in your mind as well as hands. Eliminate or fix each area, step by step, and be patient... We don't want you buying fake plants, y'know!!


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## ara35 (Oct 12, 2008)

that could be a huge problem.. i do have the cheap hosing. that could make a difference? it makes sense. and i think right now my mixtures finished cause i been doing it for like a week with shaking it and everything. ill get some new hosing and see how it goes


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

ara35 said:


> is it just a toothpick puncturing the tube


No it's a wooden meat skewer for making shishkabobs (sp?). You can get like 25 of them in a pack for a few measly bucks at the local grocery store.

Ghengis- I love your skewer idea. It works great and is easily hidden. Sometimes high tech gadgets aren't all they are cracked up to be. Sometimes less is more! It's definitely true in this case! I've referred your ingenious "CO2 diffuser" to many people! Thanks!


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## xtremefour (Sep 30, 2008)

My DIy set up is this...

2 liter bottle with drilled hole, with a barbed fitting, the other end I have a nut screwed on. I used silicon on the outside arond the fitting to stop any fine leaks. 

Tubing with a check valve and then tubing goes into tank and then into siphon for my HOB.

Mixture is 2 cups sugar, warm water to neck line on bottle, 2 tsp of yeast and I add dechlor to the mix. Shake it up and put the cap on. I would say withing 1/2 hour I have good bubbles going. 

I try to change my bottles out every week to week and half. I have two HOB's and two 2 liter bottles set up this way.


matt


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

ara35 said:


> that could be a huge problem.. i do have the cheap hosing. that could make a difference? it makes sense. and i think right now my mixtures finished cause i been doing it for like a week with shaking it and everything. ill get some new hosing and see how it goes


In my home tank which is a 55 gallon planted, i run Pressurized CO2 and my air line running to the reactor is just regular air line hose. This is "cheap hosing" but it works great. 1bps into my reactor can give me close to 30ppm.


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## bsmith (Dec 13, 2006)

Cheap tubing is not the issue here. The issue is not enough pressure and your diffusor.

I used 2 3L soda bottle on my 37g and then used my Rena XP1 as the reactor. Which is moch more effecient then a glass diffusor.

What size tank are you using this on?


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

Muirner said:


> In my home tank which is a 55 gallon planted, i run Pressurized CO2 and my air line running to the reactor is just regular air line hose. This is "cheap hosing" but it works great. 1bps into my reactor can give me close to 30ppm.


Yes, in your case, regular "cheap" hose would be fine. Why? Because you are most likely using proper barbed fittings to secure the hose, and not relying on the flexibility of the hose to seal itself to the inside of a drilled hole...



bsmith782 said:


> Cheap tubing is not the issue here. The issue is not enough pressure and your diffusor.


Again, you might be right. But I am just trying to help this person eliminate all possibilities. As stated above, the silicone tube, being alot more flexible than the cheap, stiff variety, seals better against the drilled holes... The reason for there not being enough pressure at the diffusor is because of leakage. Simple. One could use a 44gallon drum filled with water, sugar and yeast, and still have troubles if the gas is leaking past the outside of the tube. Or somewhere else.

Also, I am not saying that all the problems are stemming from the hose alone, there could be something else that needs attention... It's just one more step in ensuring the system will work. ara, please try the silicone hose, and let us know how you go.


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

Tex Gal said:


> No it's a wooden meat skewer for making shishkabobs (sp?). You can get like 25 of them in a pack for a few measly bucks at the local grocery store.
> 
> Ghengis- I love your skewer idea. It works great and is easily hidden. Sometimes high tech gadgets aren't all they are cracked up to be. Sometimes less is more! It's definitely true in this case! I've referred your ingenious "CO2 diffuser" to many people! Thanks!


No, TexGal, thank _you_! That's very flattering!! 

ara, just had another idea. If, after you've had a go with the silicone hose, you are still getting leaks, maybe take one of those little nipple fittings that I told you to throw away (you didn't really throw them away did you?  ), push your hose through your bottle lid (about two inches or so, or enough to make it easy to handle), push the nipple into the end of the hose and draw the hose back through the hole, wedging the nipple into place. If that doesn't give you a good solid seal, I don't know if anything will!

Just make sure you try the hose by itself first, and ensure the hole is at least a milliimetre smaller than your hose diameter.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

ghengis, how the heck did you get that video in your signature and why can't I double click on it to see it bigger? 

bsmith782, I also use a 3 liter bottle for my DIY CO2 reactor with a 'snot bottle' in between to catch any 'spill'. Can you see the bubbles going into your intake tube? I currently have a cut a clear small soda bottle that I put on my intake tube. It looks like a clear umbrella. I just have the silicone tubing with a stiff tube on the end pointing up into the clear 'umbrella'. I do this so I can see the bubbles to make sure it is working. 

I would love to use a ceramic diffuser just because I think the super tiny bubbles look cool. I would love to watch them dissolve before they get to the water surface in my 75 gallon tank. Or watch them get sucked up into my Rena XP2 canister filter. 

ara35, the part to focus on is the size of the hole that you DRILL into the top of your 3 liter (if you can find them that big, I do recommend that size - buy the soda bottle and dump out or pour out for your kids to drink down). Make sure you DRILL the hole. You want to look at the drill bit and make sure that it is SMALLER than your air hose. DRILL the hole, do not nail the hole - you might crack the soda bottle top. THEN take the air hose and CUT the hose diagonally to make this weird shaped hose with a skinny tip - and then STICK THIS INTO THE TINY drilled HOLE. Here comes the funny part if you are not handy (I am not); take a pair of pliers and PULL the skinny tip of the air hose THROUGH THE drilled HOLE. If done right (not easy for me - I had to redo this a number of times), the air hose will be tightly held by the soda bottle top, the hole in the tubing in the soda bottle top will be narrow - but that is okay you want to build up pressure and you don't want to lose this pressure to leaks from cracks. 

For some people this is easy. For me this was not and took a couple of tries for me. But once you get this down pat, the rest is easy(er). 

I don't know if it matters if you have a ceramic diffuser or not. Someday I will get one. So far, I have not yet. 

Play with it. Have fun. You can always improve it more later. 

grim has a good sense of humor. Wait until he sees Jimbo in person doing something like this. He will be rolling on the floor laughing. Picture the office guy (financial services) working with his hands with pliers and a drill. Shop guys can do this stuff blindfolded. Watching office guys like me try to do this is just plain funny. 

You will get it. Take your time and go easy on yourself. 

If Jimbo205 can do it, you can too!


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

Jimbo205 said:


> ghengis, how the heck did you get that video in your signature and why can't I double click on it to see it bigger?


I've had that sig for about 3 months, now, and your the first person to ask me about it!!  You can't make it bigger, cos I compressed it to fit into the required sig size. Sorry. But thanks for noticing!!

And...



Jimbo205 said:


> ara35, the part to focus on is the size of the hole that you DRILL into the top of your 3 liter (if you can find them that big, I do recommend that size - buy the soda bottle and dump out or pour out for your kids to drink down). Make sure you DRILL the hole. You want to look at the drill bit and make sure that it is SMALLER than your air hose. DRILL the hole, do not nail the hole - you might crack the soda bottle top. THEN take the air hose and CUT the hose diagonally to make this weird shaped hose with a skinny tip - and then STICK THIS INTO THE TINY drilled HOLE. Here comes the funny part if you are not handy (I am not); take a pair of pliers and PULL the skinny tip of the air hose THROUGH THE drilled HOLE. If done right (not easy for me - I had to redo this a number of times), the air hose will be tightly held by the soda bottle top, the hole in the tubing in the soda bottle top will be narrow - but that is okay you want to build up pressure and you don't want to lose this pressure to leaks from cracks.


...well said. For an Office Jock you're really pretty smart! :biggrin::biggrin: Just to clarify that drill size, I find a bit that'll fit inside the tube, 4.5mm is perfect. Super snug :supz:


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

So it that you in the video or one of your favorite teams? 

ghengis, you can ask grim about the look on my face when he and another relatively local hobbyist were helping me build my ODNO light fixture. 

APC has been so helpful to me so many times by having things step by step that even I could follow. But nothing beats having buddies nearby that can drop by the house and show you in person how to do something!

Oh, and this is why I am rarely on APC. I start at 12:10 am and and now it is 4:18 am my time. If I sleep through Thanksgiving here in the the USA, my wife and kids will kill me. And I still have my planted aquarium book I want to look at again. (It will take me forever to get the pH / CO2 stuff down pat.)

I just know how to make the bubbles with bread yeast, sugar, baking soda and water. :smile:


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## daryn (Jul 25, 2008)

here are some pics of my diy setup that i really struggled with LOL, i ended up using the bulkhead fittings with threadseal tape, i only used one 2 litre soda bottle at first but then added a second so it was more stable, the diffuser is a rhynox 2000 and only got the bubble counter because it was so cheap, with a perfect seal its good for over 1BPS.


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

Your bottles appear to be very low in water/mixture. I would increase this so the pressure can build up in a smaller void in the bottle.

-O


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## daryn (Jul 25, 2008)

For the mixture i put 2 cups sugar into a pot then put 2 cups water from the kettle into pot and bring to boil then leave sitting, i then rinse the bottle out with hot tap water then cold tap water, then being very careful i put the empty bottle in the sink and with a funnel i pour the roasting hot water into the bottle and leave it sitting in the fridge to cool it down, while im waiting i put 1/4 cup of tepid water into cup with 1/2 tsp Baking Soda and 1 tsp dried yeast and mix with hand blender till really frothy i then add a couple of pinches of sugar and mix again, then after 10 mins the water in the bottle has cooled down to room temp and the yeast mix is added and mixed, if i change the amount of water will i need to change anything else.


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

Wow! Thats incredibly complex for such a simple method. 
I would measure your water out(enough to fill what ever bottle you have 75%)
Then add sugar and yeast. 
Thats it, Ive done this a million and one times and it has worked every time.
Try taking a more simple approach, it just might work.

Cheers, Orlando


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## daryn (Jul 25, 2008)

Whenever ive done it without the boiling water the BPS goes down, if im regular with changing the mix its good for over 1BPS (im guessing about 3 or 4 BPS) and puts the drop checker with 4Kdh water in my 3 gallon (UK) yellow if there is no surface movement, the thing i really struggled with was getting a perfect seal since the glass diffuser needs so much pressure, it wasnt till i used threadseal that the single 2 litre coke bottle got enough pressure to work the glass diffuser.


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

I would at minimum, increase your water volume in your bottles to fill 75%
This will result in more pressure in your system(smaller airspace in bottle). Thus working better for glass diffusers.

Orlando


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## daryn (Jul 25, 2008)

Changing the mix in a bottle tonight so i will do the 75% full that you recommend. Thanks for the info.


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

Any updates here, ara? Are we winning, yet??


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## IbnOzn (Mar 16, 2007)

Quick tip - If you're sealing plastic fittings into your bottle caps with silicone be sure to roughen the surfaces with sandpaper first so the silicone adheres to the plastic.


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

...or just avoid silicone...


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