# CSM+B question



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

I've never used this stuff but have found Seachem to be getting just to expensive.

My question is> Does the mixed solution need or should it be refrigerated?


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## Andy Ritter (Nov 26, 2008)

Hey Newt,

I don't refrigerate my solutions of CSM+B. However, I do add about 1/4 to 1/2 ml of Kordon Methylene Blue to a 500 ml container of the solution for fungus prevention. I mix 10 grams of CSM+B per 500 ml deionized water. I mix my solutions and store them in reused Seachem Flourish bottles and place them in the cabinet beneath the aquarium (where it is very dark).

Hope this helps.

Andy


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Thanks Andy.
I'm using Rex Griggs solution> 30 grams to 473ml distilled water. It took a lot of shaking to get it mixed/dissolved. I think I'll refrigerate it just to be safe. I refrigerate my Flourish.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Do you need it in liquid form? You can dry dose.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

I have not seen any guidlines for dosing it dry


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## mrakhnyansky (Nov 25, 2007)

You can add about 20ml of Flourish Excell to micro solution and it will stay fungus free without refrigeration
To make Nitrate solution you need to add Methylene Blue.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Newt said:


> I have not seen any guidlines for dosing it dry


Check out the sticky for EI dosing. It's there. You can start at the small dosage size and go up or down from there according to your plants.


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## Kevin Jones (Apr 4, 2004)

Newt said:


> I have not seen any guidlines for dosing it dry


roughly 1/8 teaspoon per 50 gallons of water 2- 3 times per week


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Thanks everyone for your responses.
I found this on Rex Grigg's site> 0.1 gram dosed dry in 20 gallons of water will add 0.09 ppm of iron.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Hi Newt

You can use the fertilator here for your calculations. CSM+B is found in the "Iron Fe" button. You can use either "grams" or "teaspoons" for your calculations. When you want to use fractions, convert them to decimals. i.e. 1/8 tsp = 0.125 tsp

Left C


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Thanks Left C 

I didnt realize that CSM+B was in the Iron section of the Fertilator.

I always prefer to use weight. Way more accurate than spoons.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

I'm glad that you know about the trace products in the fertilator now.

Some people are suggesting dosing more CSM+B (trace) than what is called for in EI. I've seen reports of suggestions up around 3X to 5X. Another suggestion is to get one of the Fe products to dose also that is based on your water hardness. Increased Fe dosing has been suggested too. This came from some of the studies at Tropica plus some peoples' personal experiences.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

I have shrimp in my tank and would worry about copper being too high.

Funny how the U.S., Europeans and Asians all dose differently.

I dont believe in EI.


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## bsmith (Dec 13, 2006)

Dont worry about shrimp and csm+b. You would have to dump 1lb in a 10g tank to even pose the smallest of threats. 

What size tank are you dosing?

I have been dosing my ferts dry with spoons for years and have had great success with this method. 

I dose 1/16th tsp csm+b on Micro days in my 37g tank.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

I'm using the solution in my 75.


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## bsmith (Dec 13, 2006)

So if you didn't want to take the extra step of making a solution you would only need to put a 1/8th tsp on Micro days and you would be set. 

I really thought about making solutions but having to worry about algae (which IMO if you reuse old flourish bottles or other thicker plastic bottles that don't allow light to penetrate at all) I don't see how algae would be an issue. Also trying to measure the additives accurately could lead to mis-dosing the tank too. I just don't see the need to do it but if you like it/it makes you feel better then go for it.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

My scale has a resolution of 0.01gm
I'm keeping the solution in the fridge in one of those Tropica type, plastic measuring bottles.


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## bsmith (Dec 13, 2006)

You should be good to go. Have you decided if you are/what you are going to use as an algaecide?


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Someone recommended Excel.
I'll wait and see if any develops in the fridge.


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## JoeRoun (Nov 10, 2008)

Newt said:


> I have shrimp in my tank and would worry about copper being too high.
> 
> Funny how the U.S., Europeans and Asians all dose differently.
> 
> I dont believe in EI.


CSM+B is something like 64% EDTA so the extra copper is not a threat, I have dosed 10 times or more for quite a while with no invert problems.

I don't believe in Zoroastrianism.


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

Just FYI, a while ago we did some research with Cu levels from our fertilizers vs accepted standards (this is defined at LC50, which is -- seriously -- half a lethal dosage, per pesticide databases, government studies, etc, according to species). This documentation, along with links to that research and general advice, is here: http://y.petalphile.com/cu

With CSM+B, the short of it is that a very large dose -- like 4tsp dry into 50gal -- is needed to cross the dangerous threshold for even the most sensitive animals (Caridina shrimp).

Shameless plug: http://calc.petalphile.com will do this for you, takes unconverted fractions (like "1/8 tsp"), and prints out a warning like the one below if you do cross said thresholds. (Microplex in this example)



Hope this helps!


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