# Newbie with algae problems



## Olivia (May 5, 2006)

I have a 46 gallon fresh water tank that has been set up for about 2.5 years. Initially we added plants, some grasses and bunch plants but my algae eaters were destroying them so the pleco got kicked to the turtle tank. Then algae started taking over the tank. It grew so heavily on the plants that it covered them and suffocated them. When we moved a bit ago I took the opportunity to try to clean it all off. Didn’t work.

3 weeks ago I lost it and took everything out of the tank to clean it. I took out the large piece of drift wood and scrubbed and left it in the sun to dry and hopefully to kill any remaining algae. Then I took out the decorative rocks and bleached them. I vacuumed out 80% of the water and replaced it with RO water (has always been RO, we purchased a filter a year ago to try to help this problem). I threw out my plants, several swords, because you couldn’t even see the leaves for the algae. I also had a handful of java moss that I took out. I didn’t throw it away, I put it in a small bucket as I wanted to see if I could save it but it has lots of algae on it so now I’m afraid to put it back in the tank. And I’m ashamed to say I added an algaecide. It killed my clown loaches and now the tank has no fish. I did several water changes and added 4 largish onion plants. Now one of the onions has white fuzz growing on the bulb and they are starting to get algae growing on the leaves. I just saw that there is a little algae growing on the driftwood now too.

I would love to have a beautiful tank but this constant battle is killing me. Any advice on how to get rid of this algae? Should I add some H2O2 or bleach to the tank? Would that kill the onions? What dosages? I could handle a little algae but what we have going it rediculous. I would love to add a moss wall but I’m afraid that the moss would just be taken over by the algae. I read that adding plants will actually decrease the algae but the algae just chokes them out.

46 gallon tank
nitrates 0
nitrites 0
phosphates 0 (it used to be off the chart)
76 degrees
ammonia 0
pH 7.2
1 36 inch Flora Sun bulb and 1 36 inch Ultra Sun bulb on for 8 hours a day
Fluorish at 1 capful once a week, I would add more but I’m afraid that I will just be fertilizing the algae

Please be gentle if I’m doing everything wrong, I’ve been researching like crazy for 2 years and following my LFS’s advice and nothing has worked.

Thanks,
Olivia


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## Olivia (May 5, 2006)

Sorry for the very long post. I was just trying to put in everything that might be useful! 

Olivia


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Algae can be frustrating; but with a little time, a lot of patience and being consistent you will be able to win the war.

First stop using RO water and start using tap water. RO water has no nutrients in it. Your plants need nutrients in order to grow an out compete the algae.

Next add as many plants as you possibly can, with most of these being fast growers. These plants will help soak up nutrients that the algae feed on. Stay with low light plants since you have only 1.30wpg.

Then I would inject some C02 into the tank, keeping it at 20-30ppm. If you don't won't to go this route at least use some Seachem excel for a carbon source. The former being the best solution.

Having 0 nitrates/phosphates is not good. You need to add some nitrates/phosphates to the tank to maintain levels of 10ppm (N03)/1ppm (P04). Plants need these nutrients to grow and overcome the algae.

Also adding some algae eaters will help with the process. Otto's, SAE's & Pleco's (small) make a great algae eating team. 

I would also gradually up the daily lighting period to 10 hours. If plants get less then 10 hours daily they are unable tp photosynthesize properly.


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## 247Plants (Mar 23, 2006)

Ah the ever present algae battle.....Luckily you came to the right spot

I think this would be a perfect example of bottoming out nutrient levels so that it causes a huge algae bloom....

Trenac hit it on the head with her comments.... I would suggest dosing excel at least what the label suggests....studys(not entirely scietifically documented) by hobbyist have shown excel in overdoses to actually be an algaecide by nature so dont worry about that....

The Estimative Index form of fertilizing might not work for you entirely with such low wattage but you can just lower the fert dosings for a non CO2 low light tank...start small and work up, your plants will tell you how they feel....if you are using seachem or one of the other fertilizers by all means dose as the label recommends...

Definately go with a clean up crew... I like ottos....and a few shrimp.....Heck I have ghost shrimp that help out and they are CHEAP!!!

*Edit-Not that Im cheap I just LOVE bargains


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## Olivia (May 5, 2006)

Thanks guys,

There used to be a lot of phosphates in the water at the beginning of this saga and my LFS told me they needed to be at 0. We never managed to get them below around 5 until I broke down the whole tank, I was surprised when the test revealed 0! 

Should I continue the Flourish and add Seachem or just do the Seachem? In the dosages on the bottle? Ok, I can do that! I will slowly up the light hours, again, the LFS suggested that we lower it to around 6 hours, I thought that a little extreme so 8 was as low as I would go.

I will get some little shrimps, I like ghost shrimp. I used to raise them for feeders for my seahorses and always thought they were cute. What kind of fast growing plants do you recommend? My LFS has lots! of plants but most of them are not labeled with names, just labeled bunch plants or potted plants. They told me to stay away from the bunch plants as I don't have enough light for them. I read that anachris (sorry if I misspelled) was a good fast growing plant. How do I keep them alive if they get covered by algae? I had to throw away about $50 worth of plants because you couldn't even see what they were with all the algae on them. I read a thread on squirting H2O2 on the algea itself if it is on the plants but I don't know if it is the same algae that I have? 

I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't want to spend lots of money (again) on plants that either die or suffocated by algae.

Thanks again,
Olivia


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

I can understand not wanting to waste money, so your concern is well taken.

I would go with plants like Hornwort, Anacharis, Watersprite, Wisteria. These are all easy to grow, low lights plants that most stores carry on a regular basis. Buy as many as you can afford, the more the better.

If you want a good algae eating shrimp then go with Amano's. Ghost shrimp are mainly scavengers and eat little to no algae. If you have fish in the tank be warn they may eat the shrimp.

I would get three Otto's, two SAE's and a Clown pleco for a well rounded algae clean up crew. Once the SAE's get larger you may have to return them to the store.

Before you buy new plants make sure to take out all the now affected plants and clean all the algae off the decor, equipment and glass. After doing this do a 50%-75% water change, making sure to vacuum the gravel well also.

For ferts you will need to add Seachem flourish, micros, nitrogen, phosphates and don't forget the Excel. Start out with half the recommended dosage and then gradually increase it as you see fit.


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

You can use your RO water. Pick up some GH Booster from Greg Watson, plus a little baking soda.

Using these together you can craft water with exactly the general and carbonate hardness you want.

I use 100% RO and reconstitute it using the above sources to get a GH of 5 and a KH of 3.

After all you spent good money on that RO unit. Why not use it? Besides that, your tap water may change, and there's no telling what's in it that doesn't show up on the water report.

Also it is too bad that local fish stores can't be held liable for negligence when they give out such horrible advice.


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## Olivia (May 5, 2006)

Alrighty, the plan is to go buy a whole bunch of plants. Take out the onions and clean the leaves, clean the driftwood again, vacumm the gravel really well and but everything back. Then get the Seachem Excel and start adding that along with the flourish that I already have. I checked that website and didn't really see anything labeled GH booster, I did see some Seachem Equilibrium that says it will mineralize RO water, is that ok? There are no fish in the tank right now so some shrimp will be fine. I'll see if the store has some Amanos, I've never seen anything other than ghost shrimp but I'll look. Slowly up the light to 10 hours.

What should I do if algae starts growing on all the new plants? 

The LFS is beautifully set up with lots of very healthy fish, beautiful planted tanks and lovely reef tanks. I don't know who set up these tanks as everyone I've asked has given the advice that I've already told ya'll. Someone did mention adding CO2 but then said it wasn't necessary. I go to the store as they have the best selection that I've found in my city. I refuse to got to Petsmart to buy fish stuff! I do wish though that they could be held liable for the amount of money I've spent on their bad advice!

Also, once I have all this under control do I have enough light to have a moss wall? What kind of moss should I use?

Thanks again for all the great advice,
Olivia


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## allen (Jan 12, 2006)

i had a major problem with algae also.lost all of the watersprite,hairgrass,vals,+others,trimmed alot of sword leaves,wisteria.

tried different dosing methods.raised the co2 to very high levels.cut back the hours the light was on.nothing would work.so i bought excel,dosed heavy and in two days the algae started dying off.by the forth day it is complety gone!now i use dry ferts with the EI method and include excel daily.

i'm now replanting the tank with more expensive plants because i'm sure the algae will not return while using excel.

good luck to you and hope your fight ends quicker than mine did.


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

Equilibrium will work fine. GH Booster is essentially the same thing but different ratios of substances.

GH Booster can be found here: http://www.gregwatson.com/proddetail.asp?prod=GHBooster


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Olivia... You will most than likely get more algae on the plants, as all newly setup tanks go through different algae stages. Just keep as much cleaned off by hand as possible and do weekly water changes. Keeping a consistent routine of ferts, daily lighting, tank maintainance and a cleaner crew will keep the algae to a minimal.


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

If Oliva triple doses the excel I think she will find algae to be a thing of the past.

My tank has no algae whatsoever, even on a detailed close inspection. By week's end a bit of green dust starts to form but it's time for a water change by then so I wipe it off the glass.

Hair, thread, bba, bga, etc., are totally non-existant. I owe it almost entirely to overdosing excel.


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

banderbe said:


> If Oliva triple doses the excel I think she will find algae to be a thing of the past.
> 
> My tank has no algae whatsoever, even on a detailed close inspection. By week's end a bit of green dust starts to form but it's time for a water change by then so I wipe it off the glass.
> 
> Hair, thread, bba, bga, etc., are totally non-existant. I owe it almost entirely to overdosing excel.


While I agree that overdosing Excel does work to remove certain algaes, I can't really recommend permanent overdosing of Excel to keep algae at bay; this is hiding the symptoms and not fixing the problem...

Overdosing Excel should be a one time treatment to kill existing algae (mainly BBA). In parallel one needs to concentrate on fixing the underlying cause.


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

Have you ever overdosed excel? Overdosing excel takes at least a month, if not longer.

I had BBA, BGA, thread, hair... Excel wiped it all out. The assertion that it is only effective against BBA is patently false.

I think it's a given that one needs to address the underlying cause. However, addressing the underlying cause will NOT get rid of the algae if it is fully established as it sounds like it is here. 

It needs to be knocked out first. THEN, and only then, will attempts to correct the problem through nutrient regime change be effective.

I also question the notion that the symptoms are hidden. The symptoms, other than the obvious algae covering everything, are plants that aren't growing well. Excel will not change that, just like a total blackout or hydrogen preroxide won't change it. If her nutrients are still out of whack the plants will still look bad. Nothing is being hidden. Excel gives the other changes a chance to work.


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

I'm not disagreeing with you.

I just wanted to correct any misconception from your previous post that overdosing excel was a long term solution. That post does not say a word about fixing the underlying problems or that the Excel overdosing helps to get you back to a "clean start"... All it says is that by triple dosing Excel one won't have any type of algae in the tank except for the once a week cleaning of the glass.

And yes, I have overdosed Excel. Depending on the tank , I've seen BBA die off anywhere from 10 days to about three weeks (I think the variation in duration is related to water KH/GH but I'm not too sure). And this usually with a double dose. I only used it against BBA as that's what I was specifically trying to kill off (CO2 tanks finished while on vacation!).

Most of what I've heard is that it's less effective against other algaes. But hey, if it works on other algaes for you, all the better!


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## Olivia (May 5, 2006)

Is this seachem excel ya'll are talking about? The algae is firmly established and we have been battling this for 2 years now. Should I try the excel at 2 or 3 times the dosage and leave the filter off for 15 min? and hour? If the algae dies then I can start anew. 

The onion plants are actually looking pretty good. They have sprouted looonnggg pretty leaves. 

Olivia


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

No need to turn off the filter. Dose at 3 times the dosage for at least 1 month.

I raised mine to 5 times the dosage after I was comfortable that fish were okay with 3, then 4 times. Go slowly, be patient. It worked for me.

There's a sticky post on this topic in the algae forum on plantedtank.net


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