# Iron Aquascape Workshop



## ryuken168 (Feb 5, 2004)

To APC members,

Welcome to the first annual Iron Aquascape Contest hosted by APC and special thanks to Art.  for making this possible.
We all once own 10 gallon tank before either as a turtle tank, fish tank or a hamster tank and some still do to this day.
A standard 10 gal. is 20x10x12 and can fit anyones budget at around $5.99 to $12.99.
So now is a great time to start setting up a 10 gallon of your own with the help of APC member and I.

This topic is for members to post their journal if they choice to or ask questions about the contest. This way we can help each other to be better aquascapers.
Here is some ideas on lighting a 10 gal.
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1026

Join Now
Ken


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

First, let me say that I think this is going to be a lot of fun. I am glad APC decided to do this.

Ken, your light is wonderful. Just the appearance and innovativness alone deserves much credit. Lighting is one area I think we could really discuss. I have a 10 gallon as my main tank with 4.5 watts p/gallon NO florescent and DIY CO2. I really do not think that is a ton of light over a 10 gallon. I know Amano averages 6.5 wpg over his 10's.

If cost is a factore for anyone, and I am sure it is. I know I for one might have trouble with another full setup. Let me add a a link to my little diy help. My pressurized CO2 works wonderfully for me. http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop....06023812&m=8866077875&r=7426001085#7426001085 
I plan on writing an article on this some, for APC, time soon but for know, check out the link. Sorry for the copy and paste Hope it can be helpful.


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## ryuken168 (Feb 5, 2004)

*Head count*

Dennis thanks for that nice pressurized CO2 set-up link.

Now with a show of hands, besides me who else will be part of this 1st APC contest.

Ken


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

me


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

I will be joining.

Carlos


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## Hanzo (Mar 9, 2004)

He who dares not, win not  Count me in me thinks!


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## jjg8726 (Mar 19, 2004)

I probably will, i just started with live plants a few months ago, but everything is finally starting to pull together. I made the mistake of starting with the ten, and balancing the tank was hell for awhile(atleast for me). 

anyway, i just happens that the tank has about 40 stems of r. indica in it


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Both hands raised and vigorously waving :lol:


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## United21Soccer (Mar 15, 2004)

I'm 99% sure i will.


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## ryuken168 (Feb 5, 2004)

*7 and counting*

Ok, so far 7 and counting.

I would like to clear up one question that is being asked.

*The questions on how the focus plant aka indica is to be used. Is the intent of the contest to use as much of the plant as possible? Just to have it as one of the plants? Etc..*

The indica must be the focal part of the design with the right balance between the secondary plants. It can't be too strong or too weak appearance. There is no set percent on how much to use, it all come down to is the overall design.
If you overload the tank with indica, you have less chance to win.
Here are the factors to consider with the Iron Aquascape challenge.
1. Placement towards the center to off center and front to back.
2. Contrast of color between the secondary plants and background
3. Height of the focus plant
4. Lighting effect to make the focus plant stand out.

Take for example my 2003 AGA 10 gal. If the focus plant was the use of moss, than that would be the tank I'll use. All 4 factors above was in the design to show the hill.
So the percent of indica use will vary depending on you overall design and layout.

If anyone have more questions about the Iron Aquascape contest, feel free to post it here.

Thanks
Ken


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

Just my thoughts:

I do not feel that the Rotala in this aquarium *must* be the focal point.

As an example, a friend of mine on the floor has a 10g with two carefully trimmed slopes of Rotala indica on both sides. It is the only stem plant in the tank, at least 70% of the aquarium. However, the white background between the two slopes of Rotala serves as the focal point. The hills of Rotala funnel the eye toward the back. Is this okay?

Or how about rocks with Rotala creeping over them, or a display of driftwood carefully accented with a lush grouping of Rotala?

Trying to open it up and allow for greater creativity here.

Carlos


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

I think that this is where the confusing begins. My feelings are the the R. indica also needs to be the focal point. If we follow Ken's guide about contrast, plant height, contrast and plant position, we get a pretty good description for placing a focal *point*.

If we use Carlos' description of his friends tank then we get a good example of using the indica as the focus *plant* but not the focal point. However, the use of only one plant, or using mostly indica seems to be what is not recommended.

Conundurum?

It seems that to make this truely the "Rotala indica Challenge" we need the plant to be the entire focus of the tank. Both as the focal *point* and as the focus *plant*. Somewhat challenging but do-able, I think. That seems to be the challenge. Hard to do though since if you use a contrasting color or leaf shape it would be easy to draw the focus from the indica, thus defeating the point of the contest. Any other use of the plant would make it mearly a compleminting, background addition to the tank.

Confused?

I still think this is the "challenge" It will be interesting to see how people use this common, often secondary plant, as the main attraction. I my self am finding design options difficult because I think in terms of contrasting to draw the eye away from the indica. Using a fine leafed highly colored plant to do this would suddenly make that plant the focus.

I think the key to this challenge will be to not consider the hardscape as taking away from the use of Rotala indica in the tank. I agree that the indica does not *have* to be the focal point but I think it could be too. My personal felling is that using the rotala to compliment the hardscape would be ok as long as the indica was still the focal "plant" Any other plants in the aquarium would then have to compliment and highlight the Rotala indica without out drawing from it. This will limit the plants that can be used a bit and also limit the number of plant species used but how many species do you want in a 10 gallon anyway. However, that is mearly MHO because if done correctly pretty much anything could be pulled off

I guess my feeling is that we as contestants need a slightly better idea of what the judges will be looking for. it seems to me that we at APC don't want a lot of confusion or "disgrunteled" feelings from our first contest. I think that the parameters for this contest are a wonderful idea but I, personally, wish I knew the answers to tsunami's questions.

Can't wait to get started

Dennis

BTW, I would really like to add massive props to the buisness who are lending their support to this contest


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

How I always envisioned it was that the focal point was indica...this can be accomplished in many ways and is part of the skill. Simply placing hte plant at the golden intersection isn't enough.

The other skill involved here involves incorperating the focal point of indica to the rest of the tank which could have 1-10 (just a guess) other plants, driftwood, rocks, bubbling treasurechests etc etc.


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## ryuken168 (Feb 5, 2004)

Yes the contest is about the use of indica, but it must also complement everything else in the tank like secondary plants hardscape, background and etc. 
Sure Carlos the reverse way by drawing the eye away from the large percent of indica by a use of a strong background is fine. That is another way to balance the design. I just don't want a overload of indica with no creative design factor or a balance involve.
That's why indica was choosen for this contest to show it's not just a background plant and can be used in a creative way.
The goal is to show many way a plant can be used in a creative way so it can help beginners to this hobby to have a open mind.

Thanks Carlos for the example.


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

so the short answer is that every tank must use Rotala Indica whether it is as a focal plant or as a dominant plant or just plant used appropriately in the aquascape?


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Sure, the one size tank I don't have set up, and the plant I keep that I have the least success with.... :roll: 

Maybe the next contest.


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

count me in.


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## tanVincent (Mar 19, 2004)

errrr....me?

Cheers
Vincent


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## MiamiAG (Jan 13, 2004)

I'm in as well even though I'm not allowed to win. :mrgreen:


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Alright, I am ready for our first mini-discussion. Allow me to post a question. Planing and setting up an aquascape seems to be dependant on one main thing. WHat your plants look like. The color, leaf shape and growing habits are all thing we need to take into consideration we planing the initial layout. Know what we are going to have to work with seems like the first step to me. So my first question,

*What conditions do you find to give optimum growth of Rotala indica?*

I an starting to finally see the brighter colors with the addition of flourish and Flourish Iron. Even the stems are orange now I have not noticed a change based on the levels of N/P but then muy levels have never been higher than 15/2 ppm. WHat are others' experiences?


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

I disagree.  

Planning and setting up an aquarium first depends on the hardscaping --rocks and driftwood. I think people are too involved in plant choice and placement. 

Using a metaphor of the human body, the "bones" of a good aquarium is the layout of the rocks and wood. The "muscles" are the plants. 

As for the optimum nutritional level for Rotala rotundifolia, there is none.  Play with it to get out of it what you want. Perhaps you want your Rotala to be green in your scape --keep low P (0.5 ppm or less) and higher N (~10-15 ppm). For redder Rotala, high P (~2 ppm) and low N (~5 ppm, don't push too far down!) with of course loads of Fe/traces is good for intense colors.

Carlos


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Well, I have to agree wiht you tsunami but also I must stand by what I said All this of course must be taken with a grain of salt because I have seen you scapes and I mine and well....I should just listen to you :wink: 

I do feel though that different approaches work for different people. I myself find I need to start with a basic idea of what I want. Generally there are no specific plants or hardscape but i see blocks of color, spaces of light and dark, shadow and "perimeter" lines. I then take that idea and try to fit in the actaul hardcape and plants. Aquascaping is new to me really and my first tank progressed through many changes and horible blunders to arive at the semi-dissaray I have now. Everyday I get happier and more displeased with it all at once Maybe I should try a new approach. Starting with the hardscape first also makes sense because it(rock and wood) are the things you have least amount of control over.

I don't think there are any right or wrong answeres when it comes to design. A number of my frinds are artists and some draw the outline of a person first and oters start with a specific body part. One starts by completely drawing the eyes first. Both aproaches work well. {This, however, does not mean that my approach is currently correct for me} Anyway, I would really like to hear others ideas on this subject. I think thats what this forum is for. Keep the tips coming Carlos

As for your info about nutrient levels, that is what I was looking for Thanks. Out of courisity though, what is the hardness of your waters and do you adjust it if its low?


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Critique away!

I just redid my 10 gallon to start for this contest. Keep in mind this is ne and htere will be some changing and growing happening Please feel free to use me as an example.









Here are a few comments of mine to start.

the lysomachia will come almost to the front right corner of he tank. I may replace it with something like H. micranthimodes. Either way that plant will be trimmed low in front and fairly tall in the back.

The algae covered marisalea in the front should grow out an dnot be algae covered. I would like to have most of hte foreground covered.

I am not sure about the Ludwida repens placement. I think I need to play with it more.

I like the contrast/compliment the H. difformis has with the indica but I think it will end up being a PITA keeping it lower. I like the height it is now.

What about the rock placement and wood placement? Don't be to harsh Sometimes you need to work with what you have.

Ok, let me have it


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

Looks like you are heading in the right direction and are getting a good idea of what works and what doesn't.

One thing I noticed that works against you is repens. Atleast how it is possitioned in two spots. I forsee it detracting away from the focal point which you have created.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

That was my thinking to Gomer but I had it and no where else to put it right now. It does seem to strong compared to what the indica will look like.

ANy forground thoughts. Forget about that mess that is there right now


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## ryuken168 (Feb 5, 2004)

*One way to display indica*

Please check-out the update 300 gal post, since I use indica a lot in the set-up. I hope it gave some ideas on ways to use this plant in the contest.


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## Mack (Jun 25, 2004)

*Yes I do...*

Of course I will take part. My aq now looks like this.


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

So I was looking into acquiring my stock of rotala indica to get things started for December. From what I've been reading, it's impossible to get rotala indica in the US and what is actually being sold, is rotala rotundifolia.
With rotala indica you can achieve a blood red, and the plant looks a lot better used in the aquascape. Rotala rotundifolia only gets to be a pinkish red. So how is APC going to deal with the people that have a significant advantage with having the actual plant. Not that its really a big deal or anything  .

examples,
http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop....=6606090712&m=748100596&r=748100596#748100596


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

I think both plants will be accepted into the contest without any problems.
..atleast I would.

Many venders sell one or the other without distinction or mix them up.


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

Gomer, 
any ideas on where to get the real stuff?


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## bharada (Apr 17, 2004)

IUnknown said:


> Gomer,
> any ideas on where to get the real stuff?


I ordered some from Florida Driftwood and when it arrived it was a deep red...almost burgundy color. But three weeks in my tank and it looks pretty much the same as the rotundifolia I got from a local hobbyist...which is to say that the stems are a light orange and the leaves range from greenish-pink to greenish-orange. No more deep red at all.


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