# Overdriving T5NO?



## Tanan (Mar 11, 2009)

I was reading this article about overdriving normal output bulbs. http://www.plantedtank.net/articles/Overdriven-Normal-Output-ODNO/18/
Do you guys think I can overdrive a T5 Philips 28W bulb with a 80 watt electronic ballast? Would it kill the bulb instantly or will it cut it's useful light period to half? Has anyone done that?


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## Darkcobra (Nov 23, 2009)

T5 ballasts are more complex, and it seems relatively rare that you'll find one which allows you to overdrive a T5 in the straightforward manner you could with T8.

Part of this extra complexity is "end of life" detection. When a T8 degrades to the point where it will no longer light, the ballast can at least keep trying continuously without adverse effect. But with T5, if the ballast attempts the same, the bulb may overheat and shatter. So extra circuitry is included to protect against this event.

That same circuitry appears to be why most T5 ballasts don't work properly when driving a bulb it wasn't designed for. Assuming it does work, you've likely lost this safety feature as well. And you should at very least make sure you have a splash shield, or something that will fully contain the glass and phosphor should a bulb shatter. Even then, some mercury vapor will escape.

I did successfully drive a T5 with a modified dimmable T8 ballast, allowing me to produce any light level, including some amount of overdrive. But I decided to keep that an experiment only, I didn't want to risk breakage over a real tank.


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## old 97 (Jul 25, 2011)

May depend on the specific ballast utilized.
http://www.marinedepot.com/lighting_fluorescent_icecap_660_ballast-ap.html


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

Having spend several years working for a lighting manufacturer in quality control as well as R/D I would not recommend over driving any of the florescent bulbs. They are all designed for optimum efficiency at there exact rating. If you over drive them 10% yes you will get 5% more light out of them but you will shorten there life spn to less than 80% of the original design. This is also part of the issue with under driving considerably if you put in 70% of the rated power they will not produce 70& of the light of normal but more line 40 to 50 percent, for a considerably drop in efficiency.

Another big issue with over driving and under driving is that most bulbs have a combination of different phosphates that are creating the light. Each of these emits light at a different wave length range. These have been balanced or tuned to all work together emitting the ideal spectrum at a set power rating. increase the power and one might emit 15% more light and another might only emit 5% more light. so the total balance of the light source begins to change. The K temperature will change somewhat. 

Trying to run a 28 Watt bulb on an 80 watt ballast is roughly a 2.8 times its normal rating. This would probably shorten the life of the bulb to a matter of days if not hours. Running two of these bulbs would per 1.4 times the rating and even that is extreme and would probably shorten its life to weeks. However there is also a good possibility that with the circuitry in most of the ballasts that they will never fire these bulbs as will detect a fault.

Will it blow up from to much power? I have never seen one blow up other than from lightening tests. But I never saw anything run prolonged over 25% of maximum power.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

What TropTrea said in the post above is absolutely correct. 

It WILL shorten the life of the bulb and WILL cause it to emit light different than designed, i.e. the spectral output will be quite different than intended/designed.

If you want more light then buy something that provides more light.


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## Tanan (Mar 11, 2009)

Thats the problem. I can not buy anything that provides more light except going to halides. The second option is to use twice the amount of bulbs I'd want to over drive without overdriving them.


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## Darkcobra (Nov 23, 2009)

Unless you're willing to experiment - and accept the risks associated with doing so - I'd go with more bulbs being driven by appropriate ballast(s).

Or use LEDs. Expensive up front, but they can provide some serious light. Compared to halides, due to the energy savings you'll recoup your investment in a few years. Especially if the heat produced by halides means you have to install a chiller.


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

Tanan said:


> Thats the problem. I can not buy anything that provides more light except going to halides. The second option is to use twice the amount of bulbs I'd want to over drive without overdriving them.


What are the dimensions of the tank your trying to light up and what are you keeping in the tank? With DIY LED's I cannot understand how someone have a problem not being able to light up any tank.I had seen a tank 18" square at the base and 42" tall that was lighted with LED's and growing some extreme light demanding corals. Way more than anything needed for fresh water.


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## Tanan (Mar 11, 2009)

48"x18"x15". 
The problem is availability of LEDs. Downsides of living in 3rd world country is you dont get to come across any real products. Importing any LEDs is out of question. I used to light my tank up real good with 4-5 Osram PLs but now even these have gone out of market because china has flooded market with cheaper options. I even tried Chinese 10W LEDs, you think with 6x10W LEDs I'd have enough light but they couldnt grow anything highlight. With PLs I used to grow any carpet plant. Not with these LEDs. 
And since there aren't any T5HO in market that are cheap, this one marine shop sells it's marine fixture for around $150-$200. Thats 8 times the price I paid for my last fixture.


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## old 97 (Jul 25, 2011)

TropTrea said:


> If you over drive them 10% yes you will get 5% more light out of them but you will shorten there life spn to less than 80% of the original design.





TropTrea said:


> Running two of these bulbs would per 1.4 times the rating and even that is extreme and would probably shorten its life to weeks. However there is also a good possibility that with the circuitry in most of the ballasts that they will never fire these bulbs as will detect a fault.


It would take a certain kind of fool to contradict Newts input on light bulbs - this I know.

Although; I do feel compelled to submit,,,,

I have three (3) fluorescent fixtures that are double driven - I have not a bought a single bulb in the last two years.

All things considered Tanan may be best served by spiral CFL's housed in excellent bell reflectors.
Inexpensive, plug and play, plenty of power.

Come to think of it - could we call a spiral CFL a "self ballasted overdriven T2 ? "


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## Tanan (Mar 11, 2009)

I think I'll go with 6x28W T5NO. That should give me enough light to grow almost anything. Or maybe 3x28W T5NO and 2x 36W T8 OD.


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

old 97 said:


> I have three (3) fluorescent fixtures that are double driven - I have not a bought a single bulb in the last two years.
> 
> "


Wonder what the spectrum output would look like compared to a bulb after 100 hours of normal usage. As well as a PAR meter comparison? When Florescent bulbs finally die they had spent a time producing nothing light the light they were originally designed to produce. If you start replacing them stagger the replacements at least a week apart to allow the tank to adjust to the improved lighting.

Compacts are in a way a completely different animal. I had a love hate relationship with them from day one. The shape of the bulbs do not make for real efficient usage on an aquarium. However they are lower cost option to get more light than a T-12 bulb in a small hood

I also hated it when they started to drop T-12 wattage on the 48" lights to 36 than 34, and now even 32 Watts. This is supposed to be energy efficient for when you lighting a big office 24/7 but in the case of aquariums we need the light the higher wattage delivered.


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## Darkcobra (Nov 23, 2009)

Tanan said:


> The problem is availability of LEDs. Downsides of living in 3rd world country is you dont get to come across any real products.


Yes, that does complicate things. Have to work with what's available to you. You might put your country in your profile so it appears alongside your name in posts, I do look for that and adjust replies accordingly.



Tanan said:


> I even tried Chinese 10W LEDs, you think with 6x10W LEDs I'd have enough light but they couldnt grow anything highlight.


Quality and longevity on the majority of these are suspect, from what I gather. It could be made to work. But I'd stick with single-die LEDs (3W and under) as the probability of any one die failing in a multi-die package is higher. Mix colors to get a more acceptable spectrum. Underdrive significantly and expect underperformance, using more LEDs to compensate. And keep spare LEDs.



old 97 said:


> It would take a certain kind of fool to contradict Newts input on light bulbs - this I know.
> Although; I do feel compelled to submit,,,,
> I have three (3) fluorescent fixtures that are double driven - I have not a bought a single bulb in the last two years.


I didn't want to contradict either, as what he said is basically correct. It's merely a matter of degree. Longevity will be affected, just not to degree he stated in my experience. There are a handful of folks who have overdriven T5's and gotten useful lifetimes from them.



old 97 said:


> All things considered Tanan may be best served by spiral CFL's housed in excellent bell reflectors.
> Inexpensive, plug and play, plenty of power.


This is a good idea. They're not terribly efficient as far as fluorescents go, but they will certainly work.



old 97 said:


> Come to think of it - could we call a spiral CFL a "self ballasted overdriven T2 ? "


Yes, except to my knowledge they aren't overdriven. I used to recycle ballasts from them and use them to drive (or overdrive) T8's, but that's no longer practical due to their lesser quality these days, the modern ones have a tendency to flame out when the bulb dies.



Tanan said:


> I think I'll go with 6x28W T5NO. That should give me enough light to grow almost anything. Or maybe 3x28W T5NO and 2x 36W T8 OD.


Sounds like a valid option as well. Packed in tight you will lose some light and not be able to use optimal reflectors (assuming they are available to you in the first place), so not efficient, but it will work.


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

The fact that your in Pakistan or anywhere in the world today, should be much of an issue in getting goods today unless your living in a remote area. If you have internet access most if not all internet sites will sell to you. And I'm sure you have some system of delivery for ordered goods. 

Years ago I used to know an individual from there that used to regularly ship and receive fish from back home.


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## Tanan (Mar 11, 2009)

It is kinda an issue when you're in a country which isn't supported by paypal. It's right next to India but due to rivalry between the countries you cant import even a single leaf. If you somehow manage to do that customs wont clear it for another month or two.
Ordering from china leaves us with some very very 3rd grade products. Also whose description is usually as ambiguous as most Chinese instructions are. I ordered a seed package 55 days ago and it has yet to arrive well tuggs got his in 40 days. 
If I do somehow manage to import did I mention the cost goes beyond the reasonable price?


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## old 97 (Jul 25, 2011)

TropTrea said:


> ,,,,, a PAR meter comparison? .


ALL MEASUREMENTS THRU AIR @ 9 INCHES

T12/T8 NO without reflector

20 PAR
 T12 OD without reflector

31-35 PAR
T2 spiral CFL in excellent reflector

75 PAR



One thing of interest to note - all measurements taken 9 inches from bulb - except T2cfl
taken 9 inches from bottom of reflector - 12 inches from bulb


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