# New to NPT - Ammonia Levels & Dying Swords



## PSUFan (Mar 21, 2012)

Hi All! I'm new to NPT and aquaria in general (I have not had one since I was a child), and I have started a 2-gallon bowl using the Walstad method in which I plan to keep RCS after it is stabilized. I know this is not the easiest method for a newcomer, but the prospect of creating a small "near-ecosystem" fascinated me.

In any case, I have run into a few problems. My Amazon Swords seem to be struggling (which perplexes me as I read they were quite hardy), and I have had ammonia levels that do not seem to be dropping. In addition, there is a very thin film on the surface which has the luster of oil. The bowl has been going for a little over 2 weeks. I've attached an image of the bowl, the Swords, and the residue (which appears when the film is broken by my test tubes).

Without further ado, here is the sequence of events:

*3/04* - Tank is set up. Bowl and substrate were thoroughly rinsed before setup. Soil is Miracle Grow Organic Choice potting mix (approximately 1.5 inches with 0.5 inch gravel cap). Soil was soaked first, and I removed as many sticks and clumps as I could find. Light is via a 10-Watt CFL architect lamp. Plants include White Ribbon Plants (Dracaena saneriana), Amazon Swords, and Kyoto Grass. Contemplated doing dry start, but after letting it sit for a few hours my Swords were looking very dried, shriveled, and on death's doorstep, so I filled the bowl with water.

*3/07* - Swords looking much better. Added dechlorinator as per specifications on bottle (perhaps this was too late?).

*3/10* - Added a pinch of tropical fish food to help start the nitrogen cycle (not realizing I would run into issues later).

*3/11* - Ammonia and Nitrate tests (I did not order one for Nitrite, but realize I should have) arrive in the mail. Ammonia test reads about 3ppm. Nitrates are about 40ppm.

*3/13* - Ammonia 3ppm, Nitrates 20ppm. First sign of Swords struggling - brown spots begin to appear. Bit of film on the surface, so I do a 25% water change to see if it has any effect. Clears for the moment.

*3/16* - Ammonia 4ppm, Nitrates 15ppm. Swords starting to look quite bad.

*3/18* - Ammonia 4 - 8ppm? (closer to 8ppm than 4ppm), Nitrates 10ppm.

*3/20* - Ammonia 4 - 8ppm (closer to 4ppm than 8ppm), Nitrates 5 - 10ppm. Thin film is forming again (cannot see it in the picture, but you can see the residue from when it was broken by my test tubes).

Any suggestions about what may be causing this? I have a feeling that I have used too much soil, but I felt I needed that much to adequately plant the plants. I am also wondering if my Swords are now a source of ammonia with their leaves beginning to brown / die. Perhaps I should pull them out? I am clueless about the film. Any feedback from you folks with more experience would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!


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## vicky (Feb 18, 2010)

I agree the sword looks bad. Perhaps it was left out too long, or perhaps it was grown emersed and is switching over to submersed growth. Pinch off the dying leaves and see if it comes back - it may well. 

The dracaena is not an aquatic plant. It will struggle along for a while before dying. I would remove it and replace with a true aquatic. 

I doubt the source of your problems are the fish food or dechlor, but who knows? Every bag of soil is different. Some will start off fine and some need water changes. I use Miracle Grow, and often need water changes in the first few weeks. Fortunately in a small bowl like that you can easily change 50% per day if needed. You won't need to do this for more than a week or two. You might also put in something fast growing - hornwort, java moss or floating plants, even duckweed, to suck up the excess nutrients the new tank has. 

I don't know what to think about the oil, but again, water changes are sure to clear that up. You will soon have a great little rcs bowl. Good luck and keep posting.


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## Jeffersuan (Mar 20, 2012)

From the looks of it, you do have too much soil. It is recommended you have 1-1 1/2 inches, and you are also lacking a gravel cap. The gravel cap serves to keep the soil from clouding your tank, and gives some extra space for your plant's roots to make a home. Too much soil definitely can cause some problems...

Here's a quote from Diana in the "What is El Natural? A Step-by-Step" thread.


> If the soil layer is too deep, it can easily become severely anaerobic and kill plant roots. Plants grow poorly and you get algae.
> 
> Keep the soil layer 1 inch and cover with only as much gravel or sand as you need to hold the soil down. The gravel cover should not be more than 1 inch.


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## PSUFan (Mar 21, 2012)

vicky said:


> I agree the sword looks bad. Perhaps it was left out too long, or perhaps it was grown emersed and is switching over to submersed growth. Pinch off the dying leaves and see if it comes back - it may well.


I will give this a shot! Hopefully they can be saved.



vicky said:


> The dracaena is not an aquatic plant. It will struggle along for a while before dying. I would remove it and replace with a true aquatic.


It was labeled as semi-aquatic, and I specifically asked if it could be grown completely submersed. Serves me right for not investigating that specific plant on my own beforehand and taking their word for it. I will look for other options to replace it. It's a shame, because I like the look of it. I'll just have to move it out to a pot or something.



Jeffersuan said:


> From the looks of it, you do have too much soil. It is recommended you have 1-1 1/2 inches, and you are also lacking a gravel cap. The gravel cap serves to keep the soil from clouding your tank, and gives some extra space for your plant's roots to make a home. Too much soil definitely can cause some problems...


I have 1.5 inches of soil, and I actually do have a gravel cap, it is just tough to see in those small pictures as it is black and the contrast in the photos is not the greatest. I'm definitely going to do some more water changes, and since it looks like I have to prune and replace some plants anyway and will probably make a mess, I may do a teardown to remove about a half-inch of my soil to bring the depth down to an inch. We'll see how it goes.

Thank you both for the feedback! Much appreciated!


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## vicky (Feb 18, 2010)

If the swords have any new growth showing, they are probably just converting and will be fine. Here is a short explanation: http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/aquariumplantsgrowth.html

One of the nice things about a small bowl/tank is the ease with which mistakes can be corrected - or even scrapped and restarted. That said, you may be able to gently remove the dracaena without too much disturbance, and clean up with a water change and possibly a bit more gravel. I tend to cut off unwanted plants at ground level rather than uproot them.

As for your soil depth, if you have two swords in that small of an area I don't see how you will have an anaerobic problem. More likely, you will be busy pruning the swords so they don't fill the whole bowl. The shrimp won't mind, they like a lot of vegetation. ;-)

If you do get gas building up in the soil it can be released with a chopstick or bamboo skewer. If it doesn't smell bad it is CO2 (beneficial) from normal decomposition. If the bubbles smell bad they are hydrogen sulfide. Poke around with your skewer to release the gas and consider a water change, especially if the bubbles released soil into the water column.

I think a key to success with NPTs is to have the patience to wait out the inevitable start up issues. A little time, a few water changes, and you will probably have the lovely little ecosystem you desire.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Hi!

You are making things very difficult for yourself by trying to set up and maintain a two gallon tank of any kind. The small volume of water means that the tank will always be "on the edge', just awaiting something like a dead plant leaf to destabilize it.

"White ribbon grass" and "Kyoto grass" seem to be terrestrial plants and their deaths will hasten that process.

I don't understand why I am the first person to make these comments.

Good luck

Bill


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

If Kyoto grass is what I know as Mondo Grass, Ophipogon japonicus, then it also is not an under water plant. Lives great with roots in the water and leaves above the water. 
Also, most species of Sword Plant (Echinodorus) get way too big for that size bowl. 

I would start over. Go to the local supplier and write down the names of plants that are available if you need to, but look for some of these:
DWARF Anubias (Petite, Nana...)
Java Moss
Anacharis (just to get started as an ammonia sink)
Wendelov Java Fern (The ends of the leaves look like they have split ends)

There are probably more plants that are low light and stay small, but that is a beginning. 

Tell us exactly what kind of bulb is in the desk light? Did the label include 'Warm' or 'Cool' or any other description of the bulb? Did it include any number such as 5,000K or 6,500K? 

Keep on with what you have started until you get the better plants. Your soil is probably halfway there, still producing ammonia, but less and less. 
Do enough water changes to keep the ammonia under 3 ppm. Otherwise the bacteria that you are growing will not grow too well. (They sort of just sit there when the ammonia or nitrite are 5 ppm)
Get a very small air pump and set that up so the surface ripples pretty well. This will break up the oil and allow better gas exchange between water and air. 
You do not need to feed this with fish food, the soil is providing all the ammonia you need. The oil probably came from the fish food.

When you have the right plants, carefully save the gravel cap and go ahead and tear apart the rest of it. Redo, using the same soil, plant it, cap it then refill with new water. The soil will continue to produce ammonia and the level will probably be right back up there in a few days. The disturbance to the soil won't hurt anything.

The Anacharis will also remove a lot of the ammonia. But it will fill the bowl. Go ahead and prune as needed. 
When the tests show 0 ppm ammonia and nitrite (yes, get a nitrite test) you may need to do a big water change to get rid of the nitrate, but the plants (especially Anacharis) may have gotten rid of it for you. Anyway, get the shrimp, and keep on pruning the anancharis. Smaller and smaller. Until it is all gone, and the other plants are the aquascape.


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## PSUFan (Mar 21, 2012)

vicky said:


> If the swords have any new growth showing, they are probably just converting and will be fine. Here is a short explanation: http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/aquariumplantsgrowth.html


I think that is exactly my problem...very helpful! I do indeed have fresh (yet small) growth on them, so once it is a little more established I will remove the dying leaves. It was grown emersed (in my excitement to get started, I purchased them from PetSmart as my LFS did not have any plants) and I believe this is the conversion stage.



vicky said:


> One of the nice things about a small bowl/tank is the ease with which mistakes can be corrected - or even scrapped and restarted. That said, you may be able to gently remove the dracaena without too much disturbance, and clean up with a water change and possibly a bit more gravel. I tend to cut off unwanted plants at ground level rather than uproot them.


Yeah, that was my reason for starting small-scale...even though in all my research it indicated that larger tanks yielded better results. I knew there were going to be growing pains, but I wanted to try to minimize my costs. I did recently pilfer my old childhood 10-gallon tank from my parents' attic, but I wanted to start small as a proof-of-concept.  I'm going to try to salvage what I can for the moment.



vicky said:


> I think a key to success with NPTs is to have the patience to wait out the inevitable start up issues. A little time, a few water changes, and you will probably have the lovely little ecosystem you desire.


I am very willing to wait to get it right; thanks for the encouragement!



aquabillpers said:


> You are making things very difficult for yourself by trying to set up and maintain a two gallon tank of any kind. The small volume of water means that the tank will always be "on the edge', just awaiting something like a dead plant leaf to destabilize it.


Yeah, I absolutely understand that larger tanks are easier to stabilize, but I wanted to start small scale to see if I could get _something_ going before I tried to expand it into something bigger. The way I see it (and I hope I am right) - if I can get the small tank working, that should make even smoother sailing when I scale up. I am up for the challenge, despite knowing that it is not a great situation.



aquabillpers said:


> "White ribbon grass" and "Kyoto grass" seem to be terrestrial plants and their deaths will hasten that process.


Again, you folks are spot-on with the plant knowledge. I knew I came to the right place! To my shame, I have been duped by the labeling at PetSmart which specifically identified these as "Terrarium _and_ Aquarium Plants." You are most certainly correct - I looked it up, and they will die (much like the dracaena) after some time submersed. Yet another one that has to come out!

There is a local gentleman from whom I will eventually be purchasing RCS, and he also clips and sells plants out of his own tanks. I think I will see about purchasing some plants from him. They are sure to be healthier, proven, and I am sure his knowledge of them greatly exceeds the associates at the pet store.

Thank you all very much for your assistance! Hopefully I will be able to get most of this sorted-out this weekend. I will be sure to update with my progress once things are looking-up! (fingers-crossed)


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## PSUFan (Mar 21, 2012)

Diana K said:


> Tell us exactly what kind of bulb is in the desk light? Did the label include 'Warm' or 'Cool' or any other description of the bulb? Did it include any number such as 5,000K or 6,500K?


Lots of great advice, thank you Diana! I have much to learn.

To answer this question specifically, I do not see a label designating it as 'Warm,' 'Cool,' or anything to that effect. It is a 10-watt CFL bulb (listed as a replacement for 40-watt), 'Soft White 2700K,' and 520 lumens (if that stat is any help).


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## vicky (Feb 18, 2010)

Personally, I love small tanks. I have a 4 gallon and two five gallon in my office, along with a 20 gallon. I also have several large vases with perhaps a gallon or less. As long as you are not overstocking them with large fish they are fine. In fact, since we are on the El Natural forum, following the methods of Diana Walstad, let's see what she has to say about 2 gallon shrimp bowls. http://www.bookmasters.com/marktplc/00388Shrimp.pdf

My small tanks are the most trouble free I have. I have 30s and 55s, and they have their place, but so do small bowls. And starting with them is a great way to find out about soil depth, aquatic vs non aquatic, the nitrogen cycle and many more issues. Yes, you can read about them, but it is hard to beat hands on experience. Large or small, healthy tanks are about balance. And they should be fun - or why bother?


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

> 'Soft White 2700K,'


Yes, that helps.

x,xxxK is a way of saying what color the light will look to our eyes, it is a blend of wavelengths that seem to look like that. When planted tank people were just starting to understand what plants needed the big push was for bulbs that were labeled 6,500K. Numbers lower than that tended to have more red, not enough blue for optimum plant growth, though bulbs down to about 5,000K seemed to do OK. Higher than that, some tanks looked fine, descent plant growth at 10,000K (very blue, not as much red).

Now we look for a chart that shows how much light the bulb puts out at different colors. A 'plant and aquarium' bulb will usually have a high output in the red and in the blue, at just the right wavelengths for plants. This sort of bulb looks sort of pinkish purple to us.

I think the bulb you have probably has almost no blue, and probably looks warm-yellow.


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## vicky (Feb 18, 2010)

Oh I definitely prefer the look of daylight, or the 5,000 to 6,500K bulbs. But the plants? They don't seem to care. ;-)

Walstad used a 14 watt "Bright White" bulb. I would guess it might have been in the 4-5,000K range. And she had it mounted vertically, like you do. Surprisingly, that makes a big difference, according to this guy with a par meter: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/85667-par-data-spiral-power-saver-bulbs-2.html . But, she had the light centered over *two* bowls. I'd guess that your 10 watt light is just fine for the plants, even if it looks a bit yellow to our eyes.

Over time, if the plants seem to need more light, you can put a higher wattage bulb in it. If it seems like too much light, you can just raise the light a bit higher.

Getting plant cuttings from a local is a great way to start. They are more likely to have been grown submersed, and more likely to thrive in your tap water. You might be lucky enough to have a hobbyist aquarium club in your area, but joining one is probably the quickest route to MTS - Multiple Tank Syndrome. It's a fun disease, so go ahead.


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## Douglas Ingram (Apr 1, 2010)

I also find that swordplants do better in warmer water than cool. I have some in tanks in my shop that are room temperature, ie not more than 20C and they are struggling. I have some in a heated tank in the house and they are doing magnificently. Mind you, there may be other factors too, but this is an obvious one.


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