# Monster Sagittaria!



## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

This is a 29 high gallon tank with some plants collected in the Jackson, Mississippi area. In front are a couple of _Ludwigia palustris_ plants, to the right are some _E. cordifolius_, one of them producing floating leaves. The really big plants behind the Ludwigia are a local _Sagittaria_, possibly _S. platyphylla_. I collected them 24 days ago and they are just getting bigger and bigger. So far, they have only produced submersed leaves, but they may start producing emersed leaves with petioles and oval blades which I have seen on some plants in the field. So far, there have been no runners produced.










This is a picture of the Sag. where I collected it.


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## kingearwig (Dec 14, 2008)

how does one differentiate between L. Palustris and L. Repens?


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Jeez----I can't get anybody interested in the monster sag! 

It isn't easy to tell L. palustris from L. repens. Leaf shape is very similar. The L. repens flower has small petals, whereas the L. palustris flower has no petals. The fruit (capsule) of L. repens is longer and sometimes larger than the capsule of L. palustris. I picked up a Ludwigia in the San Marcos river that had large fruit capsules and which I am pretty sure is L. repens. Right now it is growing shaded over by other plants, but I hope to get it growing with L. palustris to see if I can see any differences in submersed growth.


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## kingearwig (Dec 14, 2008)

huh... I have been collecting a ludwigia here in northern indiana for a while now and I thought I had it identified as l. repens. Do you know if it even ranges this far north?


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## kingearwig (Dec 14, 2008)

That is a really cool sag though!


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

kingearwig said:


> huh... I have been collecting a ludwigia here in northern indiana for a while now and I thought I had it identified as l. repens. Do you know if it even ranges this far north?


I does not (not in the central US anyway). You probably have _L. palustris_.

_Sagittaria_ looks good. But kinda big!


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Thanks for the comments on the Sag!

_L. repens_ is well represented in Texas and even up into Oklahoma, but it has not been reported in Mississippi. Along the East coast, there are records up through North Carolina, and then one isolated record in New Jersey. _L. palustris_ is well represented in Indiana, Michigan and Wisconsin. There aren't too many records of it in Illinois, probably because there is almost nothing but corn there.


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## scream-aim-fire (Oct 20, 2009)

that sag is pretty cool, where is that pic from a river/ creek/ stream bed or a lake/ pond.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

If it doesn't keep getting bigger, perhaps it could be a good alternative to_ Crinum thainum._


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

It has a unique look. I think there are some garden plants that look kind of like it. I wonder if it has any value for aquascaping. Maybe not, it makes a big tank look little. I think most aquascapers these days want plants that make a little tank look big.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

> that sag is pretty cool, where is that pic from a river/ creek/ stream bed or a lake/ pond.


It is of a small pool next to a drainage pipe that comes out from under a road. It is the only place I know of in the Jackson, MS area where this plant exists.


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## kingearwig (Dec 14, 2008)

Are those snails native to your locale also?


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

No, those are red ramshorns and a few brown ones. I have had them forever.


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## Aquaticz (May 22, 2009)

I have the same plant and it does well throwing off shoots all thetime


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Decades ago, I collected a similar sagittaria from a pond in central Oklahoma. This was before I had a clue about how to grow plants in aquaria. But I put it in a pot in a 60 gal with two oscars. Amazingly, they didn't destroy it! And it grew pretty well under incadescent (!) light for about nine months before I tore down the tank.

So giant sagittaria might find a following among cichlid keepers.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

The Sag. is now pushing leaves against the top of the tank. Still no evidence of any change to emersed leaves. There is a runner visible. I've got to prune the _Hygrophila_, _Ludwigia_ and the floating leaves of the _E. cordifolius_.


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## wabisabi (Dec 4, 2010)

Wow! That is a monster! 

How wide are the leaves? Looks to be at least an inch wide.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

At least an inch wide. Maybe an inch and a quarter. I just saw a runner yesterday. These plants need to be in a deep tank.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

I found a Sagittaria this summer that initially looked like what is called subulata in the hobby, but it has started growing leaves with spoon-shaped tips and probably won't be suitable. At least yours would be nice for a larger tank.


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

I'm sure that I could find a spot for it in my tank, PK! Lol! Very cool to see what grows in your own neighborhood!


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Latest picture: These are big plants in an 18 inch high aquarium. The leaves are over 1 foot long and an inch to an inch and a quarter wide. The largest plant has produced a leaf with a petiole and an oval blade. The rest are still producing flat leaves. There are three visible runners now. I can ship out two floating plants now, one dollar each plus priority mail charges. PM me. There will be more plants available later from the runners.

I cut off all the floating leaves from the _E. cordifolius_.


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## ddavila06 (Jan 31, 2009)

wow man! me want one! im going to have to harrass you now =)

any idea on the id of this sag?


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

ddavila06 said:


> wow man! me want one! im going to have to harrass you now =)
> 
> any idea on the id of this sag?


I have two floaters I can send now. I would prefer to only send one to a person unless you are the only one who is currently interested. One dollar plus shipping charges, PayPal. PM me and tell me if you need a heat pack. There will soon be more new plants for shipping from the runners that are now being produced. My best guess is that the species is _Sagittaria platyphylla_. The location maps for that species show it clustered in the south central states, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana Oklahoma, and Texas.

DonaldMBoyer, do you want one?


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Hey Paul......I'm just curious: is it possible that this species could be stunted by high light? Mine have grown nicely, and send up new leaves once every two weeks or so. The coloration looks really nice, but the leaves just don't get any bigger than 8" or so.

It's in the center of this photo:









Picture was taken on 4/8/12.....what are your thoughts? Is it still acclimating maybe? It has plenty of ferts, both in the water column and in the substrate, CO2, nice water flow (not too fast...relatively gentle current). No runners yet either.

I'm perplexed!


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Mine certainly got bigger as can be seen in the pictures. I had 2, 55 watt, compact fluorescents with American Hobbyist reflectors on a 29 gallon tank. How does that compare to your lighting? Maybe yours will continue to get bigger, but it certainly wouldn't be bad if they stayed at that size. I think the plant is going to get bigger.


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

well, I have 12x54watt Giesemann's in that pendant......


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

I don't think that higher light will stunt the plant very much. I wouldn't be surprised to see it reach the surface in two or three months with good nutrient and CO2 levels. It is going to mess up the balance of the tank when it does because it is near the front.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

Cool find Paul.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Basically it is about the size of an Amazon sword, but it has strap-like leaves. All of my plants eventually did start producing leaves with petioles and spoon-shaped blades.

2ManyHobbies got this whole thing started when he produced pictures of a wide-leaved Sagittaria he got from a Minnesota lake. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plant-id/82063-what.html At first glance, I thought he had _S. platyphylla_, but that species is not found in Minnesota. Now, I am thinking he has _S. cristata_, which, when grown in an aquarium does not get nearly as big as _S. platyphylla_, with submersed leaves maxing out at around 6 inches.


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## miremonster (Mar 26, 2006)

Hello Paul,

there is or was a "S. platyphylla" in the trade that is quite low with rather spreading leaves. It might be the same as DonaldMBoyer's plant. Once I grew it emersed and flowered it but missed to compare it with the Sagittaria descriptions in Flora of North America, or to make specimens. I've lost this plant. Someone told me that he can't find anymore this Sagittaria type in the trade or by other hobbyists. Instead of that a Sag is sold as "platyphylla" that grows higher (I think, a broad-leaved form from the S. subulata group, not the same as Your monster platyphylla).

Apart from that, there's the already mentioned "Sagittaria platyphylla" in the Botanical Garden Göttingen that I've IDed as S. cristata, but its submerged leaves are broader than those of the "old" low "S. platyphylla".


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

I will have a better chance of identifying my plant later this summer when the plants in the ditch where I got my aquarium specimens bloom. I should be able to confirm if it is really _platyphylla_. _S. cristata_ is clustered mostly in Wisconsin and N. Miinnesota, whereas _S. platyphylla_ is clustered primarily in Louisiana, E. Texas, SE. Oklahoma and S. Arkansas. It is more sporadic in Mississippi, Alabama, and the rest of the southeast United States. Right now, I am thinking I have _platyphylla_ and 2ManyHobbies has _cristata_ primarily because of location. 2ManyHobbies lives in Minnesota, and I am in Mississippi. I have seen what I am pretty sure is also _S. platyphylla_ growing in 7 or 8 feet of water in the San Marcos River close to where the river emerges from the ground in the city of San Marcos, Texas.

Collected in the San Marcos River, March, 2004


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Strange (for me, at least): a pruning of several of the leaves this past Monday seems to have triggered increased growth as a response. It has gained a few inches of additional height since the pruning. Would this be coincidence, by chance?


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

I have not heard before that pruning an aquatic plant makes it grow bigger.


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Yeah....didn't think so either. Must be getting "happier" with the tank conditions.  Apparently, some of the plants I have in there seem to take some time to adapt to my tank conditions....I had a very small stem of L. Cuba in there for months that didn't do anything, and I had even forgotten that it was there. Thought it was a goner....one of the treats that the cichlids ate, or something. All of the sudden it went bezerk with growth. Thing has five large side shoots at least 8 inches long off of the main stem now.

Peculiar.


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

I was able to get this to flower for me.....It's been a lovely plant for me in my tank, PK!


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## chrislewistx (Jun 8, 2012)

*Donald*, are you able to confirm the identity now that the plant has bloomed? Also, how large did it end up growing in your tank?

*HeyPK*, did the wild population you mentioned flower yet?

I think its a neat looking plant. It seems like I remember reading here on APC that one of the DFWAPC members brought back a similar plant from their outing to the San Marcos.


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

I think that PK had the correct ID from the get go!! The leaves are about 20 inches long, or more, as they are now growing above the water; however, emergent leaves tend to dry out above the water.


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## ddavila06 (Jan 31, 2009)

hey guys! so its been a while on this plant and mine laid dormant in less that poor conditions for a while (shaded, in graven w no light, no co2, no nothin lol) finally i added a new light about a week ago and root tabs about a month ago and it seems to really like that! so everyone agrees that it is platyphyla? im not good with id stuff...
here is two photos of mine looking nice =) thanks again for this great plant!


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