# siesta schedule; no lamp



## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

Hi! I've been reading the siesta schedule threads and lots of useful info there... per the APC's suggestion to make new threads instead of waking up really old ones... 

Help with my siesta schedule? Or anything else which might seem off to you?

So far I haven't put a dedicated lamp out of stubbornness.
The bowl is next to a window and it gets a lot of sunlight.
We get 12 hours of sunlight year-long, from about 6:30 to 6:30. The bowl is also in my living room, so the lights are on in there pretty much all the time except when we go to bed late at night.
For two weeks I tried simply rolling down the shades from 10:30am-1:30pm, I figured 4 hours would be missing too much sunlight so I did just 3? This window is facing east, so it gets the best light until noon. 
Then for the past two weeks I've opted instead for covering the bowl itself, with a microfiber towel which is like, essentially a blackout, to really shut out the light. During the same schedule. I'm unsure about what is best so I've been "experimenting".
My water has become increasingly green.
I didn't change the water for like 2 weeks to "let the nutrients build up" for the plants but I gave up yesterday because I couldn't see through the green water anymore and I dumped like half of it out and have been refilling slowly.
Another noteworthy variable is that I've been fighting aphids on my floating plants for about three weeks, and I believe they're underperforming both because they're suffering and also because I've been taking them out of the bowl so they haven't been there at all for some periods of time, which it would make sense that their absence would throw things off balance for the plants...?
I started this bowl almost two months ago.

I'll stop talking and start listening? I appreciate you.
Photos in the following comment:


----------



## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

agh I cant post the photosss


----------



## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

That much direct sunlight is WAY over the top. If you can't or won't get a lamp then move the bowl someplace where it will get fewer hours of direct sunlight. Try cutting it at least by half, if you can.


----------



## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

ok apparently I was having connection issues last night because this was super easy to do today

December 10: beautiful day









January 8: experimenting also with having less water









January 14: just showing how bright it still is with the shades down









January 17: so I started covering it with this towel which essentially blocks the light by like 100%
looks like a muslim woman









January 25: just showing the current situation


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

The green water doesn't look too bad. I have daphnia that'll clean out green water in a few days.


----------



## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> The green water doesn't look too bad.


It doesn't???











the water I dumped out into a white bucket











mistergreen said:


> I have daphnia that'll clean out green water in a few days.


Mmmmm doesn't the fish eat the daphnia though? I think I had daphnia before I got the fish... omg is the fish the problem???


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

I've had an opaque green tank of green water. Yes, daphnia is fish food.


----------



## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> I've had an opaque green tank of green water. Yes, daphnia is fish food.


I mean... in any case I would like to prevent the green algae from taking over. When I do a water change, it just reproduces because it can. I don't think some bugs are the solution, especially with their main predator living there. I only have the one bowl. Walstad says to make the plants happier than the algae so I'm trying to figure out the lighting thing... any thoughts on the nap schedule?


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

The ideal solution is a UV sterilizer but it's not feasible for a bowl. You'll have to do water changes and live with it for a while until it's completely gone.
I wonder if dosing seachem excel will help. It's a pretty good algaecide.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Your plants are growing nicely. Green water is often temporary. It sometimes just goes away on its own, perhaps from bacteria-eating viruses or competition from plants?
A 3-4 hour nap in the middle of the day is okay, but make sure the plants are getting a full 12-14 hour photoperiod.
Give the bowl another few weeks. Frankly, I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

I wonder if it’s green water actually. It could be tannins leaching from the wood & soil. I have the same thing in my shrimp tank.


----------



## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> Your plants are growing nicely. Green water is often temporary. It sometimes just goes away on its own, perhaps from bacteria-eating viruses or competition from plants?
> A 3-4 hour nap in the middle of the day is okay, but make sure the plants are getting a full 12-14 hour photoperiod.
> Give the bowl another few weeks. Frankly, I wouldn't worry about it.


I hope you’re right!!!


----------



## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> I wonder if it’s green water actually. It could be tannins leaching from the wood & soil. I have the same thing in my shrimp tank.


I boiled the wood and it leached a lot but I figured it would be done by now? It could definitely still be leaching but the color has turned more green than the yellow it was before, and it’s regenerating super fast whenever I do a water change… that’s why I think its algae… but of course I could be wrong.
I stopped doing water changes for like two weeks per DWalstad’s recommendation to let nutrients build up… but then I couldnt help myself because the water was so green 😂 so I did like two big ones… 

here’s a photo to try to show the color of when I think it was just the wood leaching:









you’ve really made me think about the daphnia though, because it started getting green a lot faster after I added the fish, who I assume depleted the bug population


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Is it just me or did that piece of wood suddenly get bigger?
No matter how much you boiled and soaked, the driftwood could be causing your algae problems. It leaches nutrients that stimulate both bacteria and algae. 
The last picture of your bowl looks great, but if algae continues to concerns you, I would temporarily remove the wood.


----------



## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> Is it just me or did that piece of wood suddenly get bigger?


You have a great eye. The last picture is from _before_ I pushed the wood down into the dirt after reading about the anaerobic dirt, I had seen people put the wood first a bunch of times but I still did it wrong and didn't want to rip the whole thing out and start over. It's actually two pieces, one big one, and one small one.



dwalstad said:


> The last picture of your bowl looks great, but if algae continues to concerns you, I would temporarily remove the wood.


The last picture was to show the water yellowing from the leaching wood before I started having the algae problems



dwalstad said:


> No matter how much you boiled and soaked, the driftwood could be causing your algae problems. It leaches nutrients that stimulate both bacteria and algae.
> ... if algae continues to concerns you, I would temporarily remove the wood.


Do you recommend any treatment to the wood in the meantime to keep the process from repeating if I plan to put it back in later?


----------



## alisonc (Mar 28, 2021)

I get water that colour in a shrimp tank that has Catappa leaves added as tannins from them leach into the water giving it a slight brownish tinge. The photos you’ve put on look like water that tannins from your wood have leached into, but maybe you have other photos showing green water? The bowl looks good to me. I would personally get rid of the wood, I’ve always found wood to get algae sooner or later so I don’t do it anymore.


----------



## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

A couple of things... the most important being that I've felt since the beginning that my phone's automatic white balance is messing with the color of the water in the photos. 
I started getting tannin-colored water within the first few days. I did a bunch of water changes and the water started to turn from that yellow/brownish to more green, and increasingly cloudy.

I’m putting these photos with dates on them because I think it’s becoming confusing:

December 7 - First day set up









December 8 - immediately turning yellow









December 11 - I added 1gal water, and it's getting yellower









December 12 - pushed the wood down into the substrate









December 18 - 25% water change









December 22 - 25% water change









December 30 - changed about 25% water two times after the previous photo and filled it to the very top









January 14 - between the last picture and this one, I made larger and multiple water changes, scrubbed algae from the walls of the bowl, added a fish and 4 MTS, took the floating plants out and tortured them trying to get rid of aphids 










January 17 to February 3 - implemented siesta schedule with blackout towel 3hrs a day
scrubbed algae again and removed all of the browning leaves/stems from the floating plants, they became nearly depleted, multiple and large water changes...

(today) February 3 -


----------



## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

I think it goes without saying but I will just in case: I don't _care_ about the color of the water, the problem is it's become cloudy


----------



## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

I don't remember you ever mentioning what sort of substrate you have. What is that?


----------



## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

johnwesley0 said:


> I don't remember you ever mentioning what sort of substrate you have. What is that?


Hi! It’s soil from the pots in my apartment, and 2-4mm gravel…

I don’t know a lot about soil, they call it “black soil” here and I’m not aware of it being special in any way.

Here’s a photo… it’s about an inch of each, bit it’s super irregularly distributed throughout 










on another note I just noticed a couple of zooplankton… maybe if I feed my fish enough he’ll let enough of them live to help clear the water???


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Try adding Seachem's Excel. It's a Carbon supplement but it's a mild biocide, killing bacteria, algae.

Or do 25% water changes daily till the green water is gone.


----------



## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> Try adding Seachem's Excel. It's a Carbon supplement but it's a mild biocide, killing bacteria, algae.
> 
> Or do 25% water changes daily till the green water is gone.


I’m following the Walstad method… I don’t think I want to kill bacteria?


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

If the wood is still in the bowl, I believe you will continue to have problems. 

I have had algae-infested tanks where you couldn't see through 12 inches of the green water to the back of the tank. Your bowl has in my opinion a rather minor problem. As long as the plants are growing, your fish is happy, and you are willing to do water changes to remove the cloudiness and excess nutrients, you should be fine. Otherwise, remove the wood.


----------



## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> If the wood is still in the bowl, I believe you will continue to have problems.
> 
> I have had algae-infested tanks where you couldn't see through 12 inches of the green water to the back of the tank. Your bowl has in my opinion a rather minor problem. As long as the plants are growing, your fish is happy, and you are willing to do water changes to remove the cloudiness and excess nutrients, you should be fine. Otherwise, remove the wood.


It’s been about a month since I removed like 80% of the wood (they were two pieces, one big and one small) …
And last night I did a ≈30% water change…
The plants are growing fast and I have an exploding MTS and ramshorn population… They keep all of the surfaces super clean and have actually started munching on some of my plants. I’ve been scooping dozens off of the surface of the water in the past few hours…

The water is still too cloudy for my taste…










I’ve temporarily suspended the siesta schedule because I haven’t been home enough to lower the blinds for 4 hours in the middle of the day. Ironically enough, we’ve been having heavy rain at noon that makes it super dark naturally, because that’s the weather here, but it doesn’t last 4 hours, maybe 1. Also sunrise to sunset here is 12 hours…

Anyway I know this isn’t an exact MATH but I’m just giving info … and here’s a possibly silly question, is it unrealistic/unreasonable to attempt to have clear water in an NPT? I don’t mind the color, the cloudiness is driving me crazy though.

Also I don’t mind changing the water often if that’s what it takes (and we don’t exactly have a shortage of water locally), but I also don’t want to do it so much that it’s bad for the animals and plants in there? How much would you recommend?


----------



## MudLily (9 mo ago)

"Black soil" tends to be higher in organics. For house plants, this is good because it means long-term nutrients. In aquariums, we ideally want soil that's more lean on the organics side. Personally, that would be my suspicion as to what's feeding the algae. At this point there's not a lot you can do about that without starting over. But it should stabilize over time, and you don't have a deep soil bed, so it should be fine to leave as is.

You can try doing water changes and waiting it out in combination with adjusting lighting, etc as others mentioned. Alternatively, there are some fairly small and affordable UV units on Amazon, and some fairly small and affordable low-power fountain pumps (like what you would find in a countertop zen fountain).

If you drill a few spill-holes into some opaque tupperware large enough to house your bulb, and small enough to sit on top of your bowl while still allowing gas exchange, you should be able to DIY a reasonably cheap solution for pumping water through UV. This is definitely the fastest and most guaranteed solution, and in my experience once killed off the issue doesn't return.


----------



## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

It's hard to tell from the photograph, but is that really algae? On my computer screen the water doesn't look green so much as kind of grayish looking.


----------



## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

johnwesley0 said:


> It's hard to tell from the photograph, but is that really algae? On my computer screen the water doesn't look green so much as kind of grayish looking.


 it’s definitely very green and not grayish at all …


----------



## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

MudLily said:


> Alternatively, there are some fairly small and affordable UV units on Amazon
> …
> This is definitely the fastest and most guaranteed solution, and in my experience once killed off the issue doesn't return.


COODIA Internal Green Water Killer Filter Aquarium Tank U-V Pump https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V26V5MS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_A2X4KHMRQAS5X847KPR6 how does this one look 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I’m not opposed to filtering the water for this purpose and then taking the filter out when it’s clear… what do you think @dwalstad? 😂
I’m reviewing The Book and the recommendation is floating plants… the salvinia I recently (a couple of weeks ago) replaced is thriving, but unfortunately so is the algae… I’m getting to the point of “hobbyists that have extra money and less patience”


----------



## MudLily (9 mo ago)

gabi.loraine said:


> how does this one look 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


Bit overpowered 

That's going to be the problem for most aquarium-designed units with pumps. That's why I suggested a DIY using a small stand-alone bulb unit like this, which is less than 7 inches long: UV Lamp

And a small desk fountain pump like this: Pump

With an opaque tupperware you'll be able to enclose the UV bulb so you don't expose anything/anyone unintentionally.

Drill some spill holes in the tupperware and attach some tubing to let the pump fill the tupperware until it starts spilling through the holes back into the bowl.

Least that's the simplest way I can think of. The odd shape of the bowl and small size means getting a little creative with equipment!


----------



## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

MudLily said:


> Bit overpowered
> 
> That's going to be the problem for most aquarium-designed units with pumps. That's why I suggested a DIY using a small stand-alone bulb unit like this, which is less than 7 inches long: UV Lamp
> 
> ...



I just read through a bunch of product questions and reviews and it seems like it should be fine in my bowl… obviously I don’t intend to have it as a permanent fixture but people appear to be using it in tanks as small as 5gal… and mine is about 10… so… if it costs less and is less work 😅 I don’t care if it takes up all of the space… my only concern would be the current it might create and make the betta uncomfortable… but some of the reviews also mention bettas… what are your thoughts on why it’s too overpowered other than size?
There’s a little 3/4” hitchhiker shrimp also hiding around, could this harm it?


----------



## MudLily (9 mo ago)

gabi.loraine said:


> if it costs less and is less work 😅


The parts I linked before were on Amazon Canada so the shown cost is a little more.

If ordering from the US $17 lamp + $7 pump comes to ~60% of the price of the unit you linked.



gabi.loraine said:


> people appear to be using it in tanks as small as 5gal


By the package dimensions and their product video that shows its size compared to a man's hands, the unit looks to me to be roughly 12" x 3" x 2", possibly wider. So personally I would base my judgement around that assumption.



gabi.loraine said:


> what are your thoughts on why it’s too overpowered other than size?


It's rated for 75gal and doesn't give pump specs, so it's pretty hard to judge how strong the pump output is. A 5W pump shouldn't be crazy, but could still be around 100GPH, and when the pump is outputting directly in the tank, there's only so much you can do to soften it.

If you're pumping the water above the bowl you can adjust the height to further control the pump rate, and there are ways you can soften/disperse the force of the falling water, so you have some play to keep things gentle. Afterwards, the parts are versatile for repurposing. Either as a filter for a small quarantine tank in case you ever need to treat the betta with meds that will damage the plants, or a desktop fountain project, or an auto-topper, or pretty much anything else you can think of.

But at the end of the day, it's whatever's most comfortable and best for you. You can always return the larger unit if it's too large.


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

I would remove the betta while you run the uv. The current on coodia is too strong for the bowl. You don’t need to run it all day. You can put the fish back when the uv is off.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

gabi.loraine said:


> COODIA Internal Green Water Killer Filter Aquarium Tank U-V Pump https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V26V5MS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_A2X4KHMRQAS5X847KPR6 how does this one look 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
> I’m not opposed to filtering the water for this purpose and then taking the filter out when it’s clear… what do you think @dwalstad? 😂
> I’m reviewing The Book and the recommendation is floating plants… the salvinia I recently (a couple of weeks ago) replaced is thriving, but unfortunately so is the algae… I’m getting to the point of “hobbyists that have extra money and less patience”


That pump is _way too much_ for a small bowl. You would stir up the substrate and make soup. Plus, there's no way to attach this pump to the glass slides so once you turn it on, that pump is going to roll around in the bowl. Your bowl is really nice and I would hate to see it messed up. 

I would try massive water changes, not ordinary ones. That algae is inhibiting plant growth by taking up CO2 and light. If you can keep the algae out long enough for plants to gain a competitive edge, plants might be able to grow well enough to control the algae. I would remove your Betta and do two 100% water changes all at once. You want to remove as much green water as possible. Water should be clear.

I think this has a chance to work. After all, the soil is stabilized, you've gotten rid of the driftwood, and the plants are doing okay, not great, but okay. 

Ordinary (e.g., 30%) water changes won't work. You've still got 70% of the algae in the bowl. The algae will come back and start taking up CO2 before the plants can gain the upper hand. 

I hope this makes sense!


----------



## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> That pump is _way too much_ for a small bowl. You would stir up the substrate and make soup. Plus, there's no way to attach this pump to the glass slides so once you turn it on, that pump is going to roll around in the bowl. Your bowl is really nice and I would hate to see it messed up.
> 
> I would try massive water changes, not ordinary ones. That algae is inhibiting plant growth by taking up CO2 and light. If you can keep the algae out long enough for plants to gain a competitive edge, plants might be able to grow well enough to control the algae. I would remove your Betta and do two 100% water changes all at once. You want to remove as much green water as possible. Water should be clear.
> 
> ...


Thank you SO MUCH for your response! When you say two 100% water changes all at once is that like I’m rinsing the bowl? I’ll fill it 100% with clean water, then empty it again, and fill it again with new clean water?

What did you think about the other suggestion for a UV filter DIY?


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

First question: Yes. (I assume that your water is safe for fish and plants.)
Second question: It's up to you.


----------



## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> First question: Yes. (I assume that your water is safe for fish and plants.)
> Second question: It's up to you.


yes haha… except for the algae, our water is great…

quick question about the hitchhiker shrimp I have in there… should I worry about removing him too during the massive water change? or is he like the snails? considering he hitchhiked in a bag with salvinia and only drops of water I’m going to guess he’ll be fine but I ask anyway


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I don't know. 
Sounds like a tough guy. I've noticed that my shrimp can be out of the water for quite awhile (20 minutes?)


----------

