# Tiny super efficient CO2 reactor



## niko

Go to any Petco and buy this tiny internal filter:
http://www.petco.com/product/13796/Hagen-Elite-Mini-Underwater-Filter.aspx

In the box you will find everything needed to make an extremely efficent in-tank Co2 reactor:

1. Discard the tubing that supplies air to the filter and is meant for aeration, you don't need it.
2. Open the filter - as if your intention is to clean the sponge.
3. Remove the sponge from the compartment.
4. Pull and remove the green flow control slider.This leaves a small opening on the side of the filter.
5. Close the filter without the sponge. When doing that put the CO2 tubing in the small opening mentioned above. Basically 1/2" of the CO2 tubing is now inside the filter, right under the intake, and it's held in place by the closed filter.
6. The filter comes with a flow nozzle. Put the sponge removed in step 3 over this nozzle.
7. Attach the flow nozzle to the filter.
8. Peel off the technical info sticker. It's white and attracts the eyes.
9. Done!

Basically you have done two things:
A. Put the CO2 tubing under the intake of the filter.
B. Attached the sponge on the outtake of the filter.

When the filter runs the CO2 bubbles hit the pump impeller and make a very gentle noise. This is your bubble counter. Count the bubbles with your eyes closed if you want. You will have to get about a foot from the reactor though - it's hard to hear if you are more than 2-3 ft. away.

When the bubles hit the impeller they get broken into tinier bubbles. These tiny bubbles then get trapped in the sponge with 60 gph of water flow disolving them almost 100%.

The few fine bubbles that escape the sponge look like a tiny cloud. It consists of bubbles so fine that they have a hard time floating up to the surface. Even the most gentle side flow carries them to the side and around the plant leaves.

Old design of mine but this $10 filter really makes it possible to make an ideal internal CO2 reactor in literally less than 1 minute. The filter is very small (easy to hide), black (doesn't attract the eyes), and has a strainer that makes the suction gentle enough so snails don't get stuck on the intake, die and block it. Virtually zero maintenance.

Maybe someone could post pictures showing how to do everything I described. I haven't picked up a camera in many months but it seems that life still goes on as usual.

--Nikolay


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## gforster

I have this filter in a shrimp tank. I just run the co2 line into where the air intake is supposed to be. It spreads a big cloud of co2. It is not as efficient as what you describe. I will have to try your method with it, though I may keep at least a small portion of the sponge where it is supposed to be so the shrimp don't get impelled.


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## niko

If you put the sponge where I suggest you will see exactly what I described.

Using a sponge to avoid sucking snails or baby shrimp is fine except that it needs to be cleaned on a regular basis. If you are consistent with cleaning the sponge then the CO2 reactor will have no problem. But if you let the sponge get dirty the water flow will decrease and the amount of CO2 being disolved will also decrease. This may not sound like a big deal but it actualy is because fluctuating conditions in a planted tank are the main cause of problems.

--Nikolay


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## erijnal

niko, this sounds like a really cool idea. You could probably get away with setting a significantly lower bubbles per second rate with pressurized CO2 if the efficiency is as high as you say


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## MeioFormiga

I have one of those, I'll have to pick up some airline tubing and try it out! I was thinking about making a miniature internal reactor powered by it, but this idea looks effective as well as smaller and simpler.


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## lowfi

lets see the pics!!! sounds sweeeeeet!


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## Kip

How big a tank can you handle with this?


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## rey

It's working well on my 50 cube. Since the sponge provided is fairly coarse, I might replace it with something finer to slow down the microbubble release more.


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## rey

BTW, thanks for a good invention. My Barr-Python reactor took up a lot of room and became opaque after several algae/biofilm abrasive removals.


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## nanobettaman

I'm using this in my 15gal, it's slightly big, but not too obtrusive.

Because it's a small tank I have the flow control turned all the way down, and it's placed only very slightly above the gravel in order to reduce flow more and protect the critters. (I had to rescue my betta after he got his tail sucked in 5 minutes after I put the filter in - he was fine, just kinda confused)

I took a screw driver and stretched out one of the bottom intake vents and then placed the output from the bubble counter in there. It's working very well and the bubbles are super fine.


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## spypet

you can use the Hydor Ario's the same way.
they are whisper quiet and never clog unless
you have a sand substrate. the Co2 bubbles
come out much finer than any disc diffuser,
and the low water current generated helps
distribute the Co2 all over your tank. they
come with or without an LED spotlight.


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## MeioFormiga

Finally got around to trying this a week ago today, it works well - although I don't know what the CO2 levels are night and day. I've just started a 60 gallon, low light, sand and peat moss substrate. I was having a problem with hair algae in the 20 that everything moved from, and in the last week all of it has melted, whether or not the added co2 did it or the increased water volume I don'y know. There is a visible difference in the lace fern ( was the only plants before ). All in all not a bad idea. However the audible bubble counter effect is starting to piss me off, I can here it across the room. Tick tick tick tick tick...


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## lowfi

hey spypet,
have you used the ario system???


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## milalic

nanobettaman said:


> I'm using this in my 15gal, it's slightly big, but not too obtrusive.
> 
> Because it's a small tank I have the flow control turned all the way down, and it's placed only very slightly above the gravel in order to reduce flow more and protect the critters. (I had to rescue my betta after he got his tail sucked in 5 minutes after I put the filter in - he was fine, just kinda confused)
> 
> I took a screw driver and stretched out one of the bottom intake vents and then placed the output from the bubble counter in there. It's working very well and the bubbles are super fine.


how is the sound from it? does it bother or is it loud?


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## nanobettaman

milalic said:


> how is the sound from it? does it bother or is it loud?


Depends on how good your hearing is I guess. For me to hear it I have to be next to it with everything else in the room turned off. But my hearing isn't stellar, and I'm well known for being able to tune noise (people) out 

But regarding the point you may be getting at - the lower flow rate did make a difference in how loud the "ticking" was, it got quieter - and more still as bits of moss and plants get stuck in the vents.


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## feistyfish

couldn't find this at my local petco. is this available only online?


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## nanobettaman

I found mine at the local petco... they only had one tho.


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## AquaHokie

I was at my local Petco and they had an Elite Mini (they only had one left too) so I thought I would give it a shot as a co2 reactor after reading about it here. See pics below!

Elite Mini box










The box contains the filter, flow nozzle, and tube with a venturi aerator.









Water flows in from the bottom of the filter and exits from the hole below. The green tab is the flow control slider.









Take the filter apart and remove the filter sponge as well as the green flow control slider.









Place the flow nozzle into the filter sponge.









Put the filter back together. The hole where the flow control slider was is where your co2 tube goes.









Put the filter sponge nozzle on the filter and your co2 tube in the flow control slider hole.









Place the filter in your tank, plug it in, watch the bubbles fly and the plants pearl!









Overall, the reactor works great in my 56 gallon tank. I placed the filter behind some driftwood in my tank so its out of sight. The output from my canister filter is right above it to help push any bubbles that reach the surface around the tank. The first full day it was hooked up my pH dropped from 7.4 to 7 and could've dropped more had I increased the bubble count. I'm impressed with how tiny the bubbles are when they come out of the reactor and my plants have been pearling like crazy. As other posters mentioned earlier, the reactor does make some noise as co2 passes through the filter. For me, the fans on the lights of my tank are much louder than the noise the reactor makes, so I don't hear anything unless I'm right next to the tank. The filter itself cost me about $10 so its great for someone on a budget. Thanks for the great idea!


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## feistyfish

just to let you know i think your photos are pw encrypted.


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## AquaHokie

feistyfish said:


> just to let you know i think your photos are pw encrypted.


Ok I think they should work now


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## hoppycalif

What does the sponge do? Don't you get the fine bubbles just from running the CO2 through the impeller? It is sure hard to beat the price on this!


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## lowfi

Nice job on the photos...now this is what i was looking for!!! This would work great for DIY also...NiCe~


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## Left C

spypet said:


> you can use the Hydor Ario's the same way.
> they are whisper quiet and never clog unless
> you have a sand substrate. the CO2 bubbles
> come out much finer than any disc diffuser,
> and the low water current generated helps
> distribute the CO2 all over your tank. they
> come with or without an LED spotlight.


Hi Spypet

The Hydor Aroi models look very promising for CO2 mist introduction. If you don't mind, I have a few questions.

What size is your aquarium that it is in?

Which one of the Hydor Ario models did you use? They come in models 1, 2, 3 and 4.

Models: Aquarium Size ... x gph 
Ario 1: 3 - 13 gallons ... 5 - 15 gph 
Ario 2: 13 - 26 gallons ... 8 - 30 gph 
Ario 3: 26 - 40 gallons ... 8 - 50 gph 
Ario 4: 40 - 80 gallons ... 20 - 50 gph

Do all of the different Ario models have the same external dimensions of 1-1/4" x 2-3/4" x 3" high?

http://www.hydor.it/inglese/ario.htm
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+12216&pcatid=12216

Thanks

Left C


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## AquaHokie

hoppycalif said:


> What does the sponge do? Don't you get the fine bubbles just from running the CO2 through the impeller? It is sure hard to beat the price on this!


If you have the sponge on the bubbles will float to the surface pretty much right above the reactor. If you take it off the bubbles fly all over the place. I orginally had the sponge on with the bubbles floating up to the output on my canister filter, but I ended up taking the sponge off and it seems to do a better job with increasing co2 levels.


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## hoppycalif

AquaHokie said:


> If you have the sponge on the bubbles will float to the surface pretty much right above the reactor. If you take it off the bubbles fly all over the place. I orginally had the sponge on with the bubbles floating up to the output on my canister filter, but I ended up taking the sponge off and it seems to do a better job with increasing co2 levels.


That makes the design even more simple! Having tiny CO2 bubbles flying everywhere is the goal of a good CO2 mist system.


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## Volenti

I've got a 200gph power head set up in my 6' tank as a co2 reactor, I have it hooked up to a spray bar at the back of the tank (directly underneath the spray bar from the canister filter) and it sends a fine mist _everywhere_, I'm very happy with it (as are the plants)


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## Fortuna Wolf

I've found that with impeller dispersers simply putting the hose into the intake will result in "bubble explosions," the loud and scattered bubbling that some of you are seeing. 
What I did was just below the green flow adjuster I drilled a 7/16" hole (though really, .2" would have been ideal), and then put one of those white, long, and skinny airstones in it with the barb sticking out of the hole. I then connected the airline to the barb. This creates a steady stream of small bubbles that then get broken up silently and into even smaller bubbles by the impeller. No sponge catch necessary, though you can still add that if you want all the co2 to dissolve.


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## Homer_Simpson

I created a c02 reactor as per Niko's instructions with an extra elite mini underwater filter that I had laying around. I tested it in my 10 gallon signature tank. Drop checker is showing a constant lime green color even when with small airstone running and excessive surface agitation via the 200 Hagen HOB filter that I am using. The drop checker solution is 4dkh and I have changed the solution several times to eliminate solution error and I get blue turning to lime green withing hours each and everytime.. To me, this would suggest that such a c02 reactor is pretty darn efficient. If you are going to try this in a 10 gallon, you may want to run a small airstone, just to be safe.


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## niko

Ah thank you, AquaHokie, for the pictures! They really show how pathetically simple this project is! For the price and simplicity of set-up this reactor is the rock bottom itself.

Adding an air stone at the end of the CO2 tubing is "an improvement" of the design because it reduces or eliminates the noise completely. Instead of an air stone you could add a 1/4 inch long piece of chopstick at the end of the CO2 tubing. The result is the same - finer bubbles and less or no noise.

The sponge traps the CO2 bubbles and the water rushing through the channels in the sponge disolves the trapped bubbles very well. A bigger sponge will result in almost 100% efficiency. If the pump outflow ponts down the efficiency is also improved. If you care - look for an older post of mine with pictures of another version of the same reactor. Either way the combination of a CO2 tubing + powerhead + sponge is very simple and very efficient.

If you remove the sponge and let CO2 bubbles float all over the tank you will sacrifice a lot of the water clarity. Each tiny bubble reflects the light and makes the water appear more or less milky when the tank is viewed from a distance. If you don't care about the looks then at least do something that seems to help both the plants and the appearance - direct the flow along the tank length and closer to the bottom. This way the bubbles that float up will be trapped under the plant leaves. This seems to boost the plant metabolism (direct contact of the leaves with CO2 bubbles) and also keeps most of the bubbles out of sight so you get better water clarity.

I don't remember if I mentioned before - mount the black internal filter in such a way that if the electricity stops the CO2 bubbles escape out of the filter chamber. If you let the gas accumulate around the impeller during the power failure the filter may not prime - the impeller may spin in CO2 instead of water, haha.

Ok, too much talk about such a simple project, I think everyone got the idea, especially with those detailed pictures. Thank you again, AquaHokuie!

--Nikolay


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## Fortuna Wolf

I love this reactor. I find that with a quart of sugar-yeast there's a saturation of CO2 in a 10 gallon tank and the outflow sponge doesn't have any appreciable effect on it except to diffuse the flow of water (which is too much in a 10 gallon betta tank otherwise). I'm planning on getting a 1.5G hex that takes a 10W compact fluorescent and matching it up with this as a filter and CO2 diffuser to see what sort of cute nano tank I can come up with. 

I mounted mine sideways so that if the power does go out the air accumulates and exits the side intake vents. 

At $10 its actually a dollar cheaper than the air powered cartridge filter that my GF has been using, and since I don't care about carbon filtration and highly value sponges...


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## JAXON777

Do you think two of these would be enough for my 5 foot tank? Its 100 gallon


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## niko

One is enough for a 55 gal. tank so 2 will be fine in a 100.

--Nikolay


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## JAXON777

Cool thatll work thanks!!!


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## lildark185

This is such a great idea!


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## Iceterran

In your guys experience how many BPS can this little thing handle? do you think it would suit my 75 gal? Probably ~3Bps


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## ZooKeeper

can you do this with a normal power head like the ones used in UGF setups? Seems it would work as you are delivering the CO2 directly to the impeller.


Ed


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## EdTheEdge

Rio 50's are great for this. I've been using them for years. Sometimes you can get them cheap too, I've found them for 6.99 a couple of times. They come with all of the attachments you could ever use, so they are great for experimenting Rio 50s are small, quiet, dependable and easy to maintain. I always diffuse CO2 through the impellar. Atomizing the CO2 BEFORE it gets to the impellar is beneficial for sure.


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## BigB

yep I bought it for a little 2 gal tank i had, when i went pressurized i went Wait this thing is tiny and can move the bubbles better.

I still use the diffuser and i just set diffuser near the gravel, put the hagen elite mini filter half way up the tank, the bubbles go straight up and diffuse some. whatever is left gets sucked into the intake screen on teh bottom, I left the sponge in. It collects co2 and mixes it with water, whatever doesnt get mixed comes out in super fine bubbles and goes all over the tank.

Its works very well, Gotta have a sponge somewhere though, it helps trap bubbles and mix them up. I tried it with the co2 line plumbed into the filter, i didnt like it burped often, the way i set it up i get a burp every hour or so. Same results but takes up more room.


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## Felf808

I use this mini adjustable fountain pump and get excellent misting plus it's super small.

http://cgi.ebay.com/CA20-ADJUSTABLE...eZWD1VQQtrksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem


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## Tex Gal

Niko - I've got mine ordered. Gonna try it. It looks easy enough for a non DIYer like me.


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## Homer_Simpson

I tried a variation of this diffuser for my 10 gallon. I found that it is better to have some poly fibre and sponge before your c02 tubing going into the (that is why I passed it through the bottom) filter. As I use it with a c02 DIY bottle, there is some white snot that is produced and the polyfibre and sponge catches most of the snot before it hits the impeller and ends up in the water. Then each week I just discard the polyfibre with most of the snot, replace the polyfibre, and rinse the sponge clean. I find that this diffuser is so efficient in my 10 gallon tank that I have to leave an airstone(hooked to an airpump) on 24/7 to keep c02 levels at 30 ppm as measured with a c02 drop checker. Running the airstone on at night and not day time, drives the c02 rate to dangerous levels.


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## Left C

The Rio 600 and 800 RVT are excellent for providing a CO2 mist effect. The RVT conversion kit will fit Tamm's 200 to 800 powerhead. The following have the kit already added.
Tamm RIO 60O RVT: http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~TA3191.html
Tamm Rio 800 RVT: http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~TA3193.html

This RVT conversion kit will fit the Rio powerheads from 200 gph to 800 gph.

Here's a list of parts for these powereheads.
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~powerheads_pumps_taam_rio.html

I've used the 600 RIO RVT powerhead attached to an Eheim Spray Bar with an a pressurized CO2 exhaust. It worked well.


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## JHipkin

If you want to get really crazy punch holes in the impeller blades with a hot pin. This creates a DIY needle wheel pump. You can use this to convert an old powerhead into a CO2 mister.


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## Tex Gal

Just got my little pump and hooked it up. It's working fine. I have a small spray of very fine bubbles going into the tank. I think it's going to be better than the nano diffuser. There was a lot of back pressure on the nano diffuser. No pressure now. All is going out into the tank. This is for my plant grow out tank so more CO2 is better. I can't wait to get my drop checker - it's on it's way. I have no fish in there so it's ok. :mrgreen:


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## Durden

I did this in my 72 bow and it works fantastic! Thanks for the plan.

-Tyler


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## Gotfish

I just picked one of these at Petco. I have some questions. I plan on putting the CO2 tube through the bottom of the filter where the strainer is, with a airstone attached inside the filter. Will I still have to remove the green flow lever? Will placing the CO2 tube at the bottom strainer instead of where the lever is work? Thanks.


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## gibmaker

Ok, I have been thinking about this for a while. I was staring at my tank and looking at my drop checker and thinking about different methods of diffusing co2, then it hit me. For all of you out there that are using misting as a form of introducing co2 into your tank and a drop checker to check it, how acurate is the reading from the drop checker? If you are using a misting system and little co2 bubbles are flying around everywhere, wouldn't or couldn't some of the co2 bubbles actually get trapped in your drop checker pop and then mix with the air void in the checker? wouldn't that give you a not so acurate reading from your drop checker? I would think that the checker would tell you that you have more co2 in the tank then what is actually in it. It would be interesting to do a test. Use the misting system on one tank, get the co2 to the proper level, then reach inside the tank and use something to cap off the end of the drop checker and transfer it into a tank that does not use a misting system but has roughly 30ppm of co2 in it. see if the drop checker changes color. If the co2 is getting trapped in a misting setting in the drop checker, then you would think that the level would be higher than what it actually is. Or I just have way to much time on my hands and worry about senseless crap. -Nate-


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## hoppycalif

The "mechanism" by which the drop checker works is a dynamic thing. Anything which upsets its equilibrium, such as a bubble of CO2 getting in the "horn" of it, will soon cause the "mechanism" to return the unit to equilibrium. If you were to put the drop checker right above where CO2 is being introduced it would give a too high reading all of the time, unless you had very good water circulation in the tank. That is more likely to be a problem than having a few microbubbles of CO2 get into it.


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## gibmaker

hoppycalif said:


> The "mechanism" by which the drop checker works is a dynamic thing. Anything which upsets its equilibrium, such as a bubble of CO2 getting in the "horn" of it, will soon cause the "mechanism" to return the unit to equilibrium. If you were to put the drop checker right above where CO2 is being introduced it would give a too high reading all of the time, unless you had very good water circulation in the tank. That is more likely to be a problem than having a few microbubbles of CO2 get into it.


Ya, thats what I am getting at. If there is a lot circulation in the tank and little bubbles are flying around everywhere...........................................................................................


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## hoppycalif

gibmaker said:


> Ya, thats what I am getting at. If there is a lot circulation in the tank and little bubbles are flying around everywhere...........................................................................................


OK, assume a fair sized bubble of CO2 gets trapped in the "horn" of the drop checker, pops and makes the air gap be at an elevated concentration of CO2. That air in the gap will be constantly exchanging CO2 with the water in the tank and in the "bubble" of the drop checker, so the elevated concentration quickly drops back to where it was. The higher resulting concentration in the bubble will also be constantly exchanging CO2 with the air gap, dropping it back to where it was. So, in a reasonably short time the system will be back in equilibrium, back to where it was before the errant CO2 bubble arrived.

When you have a lot of CO2 mist the plants get more CO2 than what is dissolved in the water - they get both gaseous and dissolved CO2. So, the drop checker doesn't account for the gaseous part of the CO2. I don't see that as a problem, either.


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## gibmaker

hoppycalif said:


> OK, assume a fair sized bubble of CO2 gets trapped in the "horn" of the drop checker, pops and makes the air gap be at an elevated concentration of CO2. That air in the gap will be constantly exchanging CO2 with the water in the tank and in the "bubble" of the drop checker, so the elevated concentration quickly drops back to where it was. The higher resulting concentration in the bubble will also be constantly exchanging CO2 with the air gap, dropping it back to where it was. So, in a reasonably short time the system will be back in equilibrium, back to where it was before the errant CO2 bubble arrived.
> 
> When you have a lot of CO2 mist the plants get more CO2 than what is dissolved in the water - they get both gaseous and dissolved CO2. So, the drop checker doesn't account for the gaseous part of the CO2. I don't see that as a problem, either.


Makes sense. Thanks for hashing it out.


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## voiceofid

i think i am going to swing by petco tonight and try to pick up one of these and move my hagen ladder system to the 10 gallon. i've been saving up a juicy juice bottle to do diy but had no place for the bubbles to go

blah, local doesn't carry it, online i go!

edit: if anyone is buying it online, petco code PETCOEA gives 10% off, saves a few cents


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## voiceofid

just got mine today and put it together..

mine doesn't have any micro bubbles come out unless i remove the sponge (wasn't sure it was working or not) and as soon as i put it into the tank the guppies all went to the top of the water...


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## niko

Haha! Soon this thread will reach 1 million pages. It's both amazing and pathetic how cheap are we, the planted tank folk. 

But the truth is these little reactors work really well. The biggest tank I've seen using one (only one) of these is a 75 gallon and obviously the plants are getting enough CO2. And this is with a temporary crazy water flow of about 800 actual in-tank gph.

I'm about to try only one of these reactors in my 180 gallon tank. I suspect that it may not be adequate but we will see. 

So let's see who's next in this battle to prove who's the cheapest plant nut, haha.

--Nikolay


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## Fortuna Wolf

I just set up a 2 gallon hex tank with one of these reactors - 
I ditched the included undergravel air powered filter, and coated the included light hood with aluminum foil and then put a 10W CF bulb in it (it looks to be about 10000k which is a bit blue for my tastes, but it was $5).

Total damage: $40 (including check valve and thermometer and airstone). 

Its a pity that I can't inline these things, or else I'd use it for my planned 1qt pico.


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## CraigThor

I just built one in about 2 min using the article. I need to get on the ball and make a big bottle of DIY CO2 for now for my 75. I did everything per instructions but added a small 3/4"x2 mini Air stone inside of it. I also used Stealth tubing to hide it in my tank.


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## hoppycalif

This thread needs to be a sticky!! It is certainly a proven CO2 reactor, cheap, easy to set up, and good for both DIY and pressurized CO2. Why not keep it out where everyone can easily find it?


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## CraigThor

I agree. Just built my first DIY CO2 reactor also. A 1 gallon jug from some apple juice with the mix listed in the article. I need to go get some more parts. I will probably upgrade to the Red Sea Paintball kit as that will fit in my stand with my sump.

Craig


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## natdc2

I just setup one of these today and was wondering if most of yall are using the sponge at the outlet? From what I can see, once the co2 hit the impellar it get chop up and disperse onto the sponge and finally it push out a little bit and the rest of the tiny bubbles just float up to the top. Would it be better if I take out the sponge and let it shoot the tiny bubbles throughout the tank? Thanks.


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## Tex Gal

I used the sponge. It breaks the bubbles up into further mini pieces and allows the CO2 to remain in contact with the water stream longer.


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## niko

Yes the sponge is the "trade mark", it must be stuck on the outflow. It traps the bubbles and they linger in the sponge while being washed by the water running through the sponge.

--Nikolay


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## natdc2

Ok awesome, I will put back on the sponge.


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## crudnugget

I found one of these pumps at my local PetCo, so I got it purely on the fact that I saw it used in this thread, and decided to make a CO2 system for my tank.

Only concern I have is the pump is a bit loud when the bubbles hit the impeller. I was thinking if I got a second small sponge and put it inside the filter, between the CO2 tube and the impeller, maybe the big bubbles would be broken up into smaller bubbles before hitting the blades and it wouldn't be so loud - but then again it might make a lot more noise if the smaller bubbles still produce the sound. 

Any advice?


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## reybie

The small air stone is at the end of the CO2 tube is what people use to diffuse the noise.


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## niko

Air stone or even cheaper (we are going for the world record of "cheap" here) - a 1/4" piece of chopstick forced into the end of the CO2 tubing:

http://www.recyclethis.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/chopsticks.jpg

--Nikolay


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## Tex Gal

niko said:


> Air stone or even cheaper (we are going for the world record of "cheap" here) - a 1/4" piece of chopstick forced into the end of the CO2 tubing:
> http://www.recyclethis.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/chopsticks.jpg
> --Nikolay


Niko you are so right. The chopstick thing makes a great airstone. I have used them several times.


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## lildark185

Set it up today and it works beautifully. I made one modification though. I added a Sweetwater Diffuser Stone, purchased from John N. some while back to the CO2 output tube prior to putting the tube into the filter. At first, the stone didn't fit in the area where the sponge is supposed to be, but I cut part of the tip before connecting it to the CO2 tube and it fit just perfectly. 
Here is the stone:








I believe this creates and even finer mist after it is broken up by the impeller. Let me know what you guys think.


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## OperJeff

Ive been using this reactor also. Its nice because there isnt too much mist all over the place so the water looks nice and clear. 

Ive stuffed a nylon (pantyhose) full of purigen into the bottom and cut a piece of micron filter foam to protect the nylon bag from the impeller. it makes a nice water polisher / reactor combo.


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## Logan's Daddy

I picked mine up a couple of weeks ago after I saw this post, I drilled a small hole in the side and set mine up with an airstone inside. I also added my own twist on the outlet by stuffing a piece of 1/2" vinyl tubing in the output and stuffing 3 short pieces of airline tubing into it, they all point in different directions and scatter tiny bubbles EVERYWHERE.

Bad Pic, kind of shows outlet:


Since adding it I have cranked my co2 down to <1 bps for 30ppm in a 34 gallon tank, not too bad...
BTW I picked it up on clearance at petco for $7


----------



## ericpop27

*I wondered how I could go even cheaper...as in I have an Eclipse overhead filter and the DIY CO2 going, but it's tricky to get to the propeller.
I pried open the pre-filter at the bottom of the intake tube (stick a pair of scissors in and twist...like how cartoon characters open jail bars). Then I stick the CO2 airtube through and re-attached the airstone. Now the airstone and the end of CO2 airline tube are inside the intake tube. The filter simply sucks them in and the propeller chops them up. The tiny CO2 bubbles are scattered throughout the tank when they come out of the filter.*


----------



## HockiumGuru

went to the lps but couldn't find a model by that exact name, however there were some hagen elite underwater 799/800/802/etc, but these models were a bluish colour... are they the same thing, and if so which should i get to pull this off?


----------



## OperJeff

HockiumGuru said:


> went to the lps but couldn't find a model by that exact name, however there were some hagen elite underwater 799/800/802/etc, but these models were a bluish colour... are they the same thing, and if so which should i get to pull this off?


those are air pumps, and are not what you want for this. a very small powerhead will also do the trick if you cannot find the elite underwater filter


----------



## Freon

I will be setting up my first 90 gallon CO2 tank soon. Let's say I bought two of these "reactors" and tee'd off the air tubing to each filter in opposite corners. Wouldn't the gas take the path of least resistance and go to the closest filter?


----------



## niko

Freon,

Dividing the gas flow is a headache. It may work for some time and then one sunny day it will feed only one of the lines. Any adjustments are a pain too.

You can try regulating the flow with a cheap plastic air valve. But I'd rather have only one of these pumps/reactors. It will be sufficient for a 90 gal. tank, I'm pretty sure. If it's not then get a bigger powerhead and cover the outflow with a sponge. Same principle but more flow. That will definitely work.

--Nikolay


----------



## Freon

I read earlier that it would not be big enough. Who knows. Thanks for the tip Niko


----------



## HockiumGuru

finally found the unit described here, easy mod, and whala, my tank is taking off!

Thanks for posting this!


----------



## ericpop27

I let my current setup (running the tube into my existing filter's intake tube) run for two weeks. Only a marginal improvement.

I went to Petco today and purchased the Elite Mini for $9.99. I am about to set it up. I'll update in a few minutes to see how it's going.


----------



## ericpop27

Well, the first pump I bought was missing the outlet and venturi bit, so I went back and exchanged it.

I have it set up now with the sponge on the outside. I put it on full power and then took the flow valve adjuster off. It's counting bubbles perfectly and it's misting very well. Most of the bubbles are being held and dissolved in the sponge. Can't wait to see the response from my plants.


----------



## Brendan Redler

I just bought this setup and put it in action. seems to work very well!

The only thing I might do is to put finer sponge on so as to trap the bubbles better. That way they will have more time to dissolve.


----------



## Turtl3boy21

Am i the only one that does not use the sponge with this?

I just let the bubbles squirt out and move around the tank by the diffuser's pump and my filters flow. That way, some of the bubbles catch on the leaves and they plants get c02.

Does putting a sponge over it and making it dissolve help it even more?


----------



## Brendan Redler

I was under the impression that the sponge helped. The idea behind it is that the bubbles get caught and get new water over them constantly so that they dissolve completely.

There are still bubbles getting out, even with the sponge and I would imagine that you will have similar performance with or without the sponge. I just like to keep more of the bubbles out of the water.

I can see the point of seeing the CO2 bubbles on the plants being visual reassurance of direct delivery, but I don't like the looks of a "misted" tank all that much. But in regards to a finer sponge catching the bubbles...if I know there is CO2 going into the diffuser and I don't see any coming out...it has got to be dissolving. Ergo, the fewer bubbles I see the better, IMHO.


----------



## ericpop27

*I ended up taking the sponge off. Then I started a new Sugar/Yeast recipe from another thread I found here and I upgraded to a Penguin 660 pump ($20 at Wal-Mart). The results are amazing.*


----------



## niko

With a sponge on the outflow the performance is actually MUCH better. If you get too many bubbles coming out of the sponge then you are injecting too many bubbles and the pump/sponge combination doesn't have enough time to disolve them all so some get expelled.

One if these reactors is enough for a 75 gal. tank with tons of light with a bubble rate of about 2 bubbles per second. 

Without a sponge the tiny bubbles fly everywhere and make the water look not completely clear. Plus a lot of them get wasted. If you add a sponge in front of the same pump you will need to reduce the CO2 bubble rate about 30 to 50%. Impressive savings.

--Nikolay


----------



## Turtl3boy21

Hm so i guess the question is if c02 is better dissolved or if its better micro bubbled. Like a reactor vs a bubble ladder. 

Does this kind of make since? xD


----------



## hoppycalif

There are some advantages to having CO2 mist in the tank vs. having all of the CO2 dissolved before it enters the tank. The primary advantage is that so many of us tried this and got better results with the plants. A secondary advantage is that the fish are very sensitive to excessive dissolved CO2, but not necessarily to microbubbles of CO2 in the water. So, you can get more CO2 available to the plants with CO2 mist.

It is still a personal choice issue. Many of us don't like the seltzer water appearance you can get with CO2 mist, and it does use more CO2. I have used both the CO2 mist and an external reactor. Both work. Right now I have one of these little reactors set up in my 46 gallon tank, with a Koralia powerhead above it to catch and blow around any bubbles that escape, and lots do. It's too soon to say if this is working well or if I really like it.


----------



## Brendan Redler

I have it set up in my tank right now (about 24hrs ago) and my plants are already showing improved growth. Noticeable new green material and pearling. The sponge is on the outlet, but it is still belching a fine mist with each bubble from my DIY CO2 generator. To tell you the truth, I actually kind of like the micro bubbles that I'm getting, because there aren't enough of them to cloud the water badly and it is kind of a reassurance that there's CO2 going directly to the plants. For the plants only having been in the tank two days and an efficient diffuser for one, they are noticeably greener and have clear new growth.

I'll take pics and update...maybe start a journal.


----------



## Turtl3boy21

I have another "what is better" questions xD

A ceramic disc diffuser or the one on this thread?

About ceramic diffusers, does it dissolve c02 or mist? I know that tiny bubbles come out of the disc but i am under the impression that the bubbles are so small it dissolves before it hits the surface.


----------



## hoppycalif

I have never seen a ceramic disc diffuser produce as fine a mass of bubbles as this little one does, when it is working without too much CO2 being bubbled into it. CO2 mist works best with those very fine bubbles. Even those tiny bubbles don't disappear before reaching the water surface, but they float up much slower and linger stuck to the water surface longer. I don't think any CO2 bubbles actually disappear when they float up. Perhaps someone can explain that?? At one time it was said that CO2 bubbles trade CO2 for other gases in the water, so the bubbles aren't CO2 when they reach the surface.


----------



## ghengis

Turtl3boy21 said:


> I have another "what is better" questions xD
> 
> *A ceramic disc diffuser or the one on this thread?*
> 
> About ceramic diffusers, does it dissolve c02 or mist? I know that tiny bubbles come out of the disc but i am under the impression that the bubbles are so small it dissolves before it hits the surface.


From recent, personal, experience (although coming from a relative noob), I can say that for a DIY system, glass diffusors are not ideal. I recently purchased a few from evilBay, set one up and proceeded to wait...and wait...and, etc. A brand new mix and twelve hours later, I had enough pressure built up for a nice stream of bubbles. About eight hours after that, the bubbling stopped. It's my opinion that glass (ceramic disc) diffusors require serious pressure to push thru the ceramic plate. Pressure not (consistently) achievable with DIY.

Until I come up with a better plan (the one in this Thread looks pretty good, atm), I'm running with something super simple. Not sure if you've seen this done before:









Seems to be OK, for the nonce, but will figure out something soon...


----------



## Tex Gal

Nice idea! Certainly cheap enough. Looks like a pretty fine mist.

I have had trouble with the ceramic diffusers seeming to clog, although not visible. I have had to switch out to a dry clean on and put the old one in bleach solution, scrub it with a brush, and treat with prime to get it ready for next switch out.


----------



## ghengis

In that pic, the flow is actually set quite high, to give a clearer visual idea of what's going on. If I adjust the flow _just right_, I can acheive a very fine stream that barely even floats in the water, rather just drifts around low in the tank. As you can see, it's right below the filter outlet to help with distribution...


----------



## niko

Ghengis,

If this is a chopstick from the nearest Chinese food place then congratulations! You may have joined the ranks of "cheap to the bone" hobyists .

Here's a "secret" trick; Cut the chopstick really short (1/4") and stuff it at the end of the CO2-tubing. Then stick that amazing creation under a powerhead. The CO2 fine CO2 bubbles will be broken to even finer bubbles by the impeller. Oh my!

A chopstick is nice but in a few weeks it will turn black from bacteria growing on it. Of course you can replace it, but the problem is that the CO2 flow will vary. 

No chopstick, just the CO2 tubing in the powerhead inflow is a fool proof... exquisite... fashionable design. And cheaper than a free chopstick! 

--Nikolay


----------



## ghengis

Niko, close on the guess. It's actually about an inch of the pointy end of a bamboo skewer 
Having tried various methods of separating the pointy bit from the rest of the skewer, from clean cutting to semi-cutting then breaking, I found that straight out breaking, leaving lot's of little fibres, to be the best as far as bubble-ation goes.


----------



## thespiff

This little DIY reactor is excellent. I've been meaning to set DIY CO2 up on my planted tank for a long time, and uncertainty about a reactor was the only thing holding me back. I Found this article early this week, got everything set up, and I'm on day 3. I'm anxious to see some good plant growth. Thanks guys!


----------



## blacklabel

will one of these be enough for a 125? or should i step up to a rio 800? also, does anyone have a link to the diy rio mister?


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster

Is 1 of this too much for a 10 gallon? Maybe I should run it for a couple minutes if it is...


----------



## niko

Blacklabel,

One of these reactors is perfectly fine in a 75 gallon tank. I suspect it can go up to at least 90. For a 125 I'd do a bigger powerhead with a sponge on the outflow. Also make sure that the bigger powerhead has a big size strainer. Usually powerheads have skinny strainers that suck not only debries but snails too. That forces you to clean them too often. A bigger size (diameter) strainer does not have such issues.

MooTycoonZaster,
This small reactor will be too much for a 10 gallon tank. But if you find a way to provide surface agitation a lot of the CO2 will get out of the water.

--Nikolay


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster

niko said:


> MooTycoonZaster,
> This small reactor will be too much for a 10 gallon tank. But if you find a way to provide surface agitation a lot of the CO2 will get out of the water.


Misspelled my name

What if I run it for a few minutes a day for like 10 minutes?


----------



## SpeedEuphoria

Hey great thread here, thanks everyone.


----------



## niko

ZooTycoonMaster,

If you run the CO2 on and off you will have big fluctuations of the amount of CO2 in the water. For whatever reason it takes much longer to saturate the tank with CO2 then to let the CO2 fizz out of the tank. It may take 2 hours to saturate and only 30 min. to loose it all.

Now, knowing the above doesn mean much. If the plants do well then by any means run the CO2 for only a short time every day. But the main question is how the algae are going to like the fluctuations of CO2. In general algae shows up when the tank is not being run consistently. If you start chaning the light, the water change schedule, the feeding, the ferts usually algae appears. So it would be logical to expect an algae bloom if the CO2 fluctuates up and down. Especially if you let the CO2 escape the tank and the lights are still on. 

Maybe the most reasonable approach would be to run the CO2 when all your lights are on. And to reduce the light when the CO2 is off.

Or you can just buy a CO2 diffuser and make things simple  A 10 gallon tank will look better with a tiny glass diffuser than with a black pump with a sponge on it.

Once again - if the plants grow and everything is fine run the CO2 any way you like.

--Nikolay


----------



## brandonttu

Just noticed the filter is on sale until July 21st for $7.49 at Petco (sorry if this is outdated when you read).


----------



## Brendan Redler

After having used this setup for a while, I find it works better if I don't put the tubing where the flow rate slider goes, and instead cut out ONE of the slats in the side of the inflow guard and stick the tubing there. The hole where the slider goes is just too small, and as a result the tubing was pinched shut after a while. No problems since I placed the CO2 line in the side of the inflow guard.


----------



## sai_dee

You might be on to something Brendan, not only does it pinch it but sometimes at certain angles my tubing gets caught on the impeller.


----------



## Ishar

I did what Brendan Redler did without reading his post, for the same reason- the hole is just to small in the flow adjuster slot. 

Anyways, this method seems to dissolve so much of the CO2, and the little bubbles leftover get swirled around my tank by my powerhead, so there is CO2 all over the place . 

However, it isn't as quiet as it is made out to be for me. It sounds the same as what it did when I had my DIY going into my HOB filter. Same bubble crunching sound every time. I'll get used to it though- the price we pay for beautiful plants .


----------



## Saraja87

I have two of these in my 110 fed by 1 CO2 canister with a brass manifold and two bubble counters. Should I be seeing little bubbles? I've never done pressurized CO2 before so I don't know how fast my CO2 should be going into the tank? How many bubbles in my bubble counter?


----------



## niko

Saraja87,

For a 110 gals. tank try to set a rate of about 1 bubble per second. If things go well, no gasping fish and such then see if the plants like it. If the plants don't seem to perk up raise the bubble rate a little - about 1.5 bubbles per second (don't immediately go to 2 bps)

You will see tiny bubbles coming out of this miracle of a reactor. "Tiny" bubbles means they look more like dust and float up very slowly (cause they are too small and don't know what they are doing, you know).

It's hard to recommend a set bubble rate. If the tank handles it well - no gasping fish, plants doing well - then this is the bubble rate you should keep.

One thing to remember is to NOT let the surface of the water be without movement. The surface movement is extremely important for gas exchange. But too much movement will waste a lot of CO2.

--Nikolay


----------



## stuckintexas

Help me understand something. If I am using DIY co2 method and I am using this filter as a diffuser and I want to only put co2 in to the water during the day, how can stop diffusing co2 into the water at night? If i run the pump diffuser on a timer and it is off at night, what will the co2 that is getting put into the pump intake do? will it escape and not go into the water or am I not going to be so fortunate? thanks guys!


----------



## hoppycalif

What is supposed to happen is that, with the little pump shut off, the CO2 just bubbles to the surface of the tank, with much less of it dissolving into the water. I'm not sure how well that works, but it is just about the only way to "shut off" DIY CO2.


----------



## stuckintexas

hoppycalif said:


> What is supposed to happen is that, with the little pump shut off, the CO2 just bubbles to the surface of the tank, with much less of it dissolving into the water. I'm not sure how well that works, but it is just about the only way to "shut off" DIY CO2.


i guess thats what i will try. thanks.


----------



## niko

Shutting off the pump at night works perfectly well. Big ol' CO2 bubbles make their way to the surface and don't solubilize in the water.

But my question is why would you want to shut off the CO2 at night. People that do that save a little CO2 from their pressurized setups, that's all. The plants don't benefit that much from lower CO2 at night.

--Nikolay


----------



## Brendan Redler

niko said:


> Shutting off the pump at night works perfectly well. Big ol' CO2 bubbles make their way to the surface and don't solubilize in the water.
> 
> But my question is why would you want to shut off the CO2 at night. People that do that save a little CO2 from their pressurized setups, that's all. The plants don't benefit that much from lower CO2 at night.
> 
> --Nikolay


I haven't noticed much of a difference when I ran CO2 24hrs a day vs. when I ran it only with the lights. I have a solenoid valve on my pressurized setup and I think I'm going to take it off. It's needlessly drawing current because I have it running 24/7. I would say don't worry about it, and if you're still worried about it...you can either shut off the pump, or pull the CO2 line out of the bottle so that CO2 is just offgassing into the air from the bottle.


----------



## stuckintexas

niko said:


> Shutting off the pump at night works perfectly well. Big ol' CO2 bubbles make their way to the surface and don't solubilize in the water.
> 
> But my question is why would you want to shut off the CO2 at night. People that do that save a little CO2 from their pressurized setups, that's all. The plants don't benefit that much from lower CO2 at night.
> 
> --Nikolay


the co2 levels that build up at night can harm fish ive been told. during the day the co2 is used during the photoperiod but at night the co2 isnt and builds up concentrations in the water which can harm fish. am i wrong or over paranoid about this?


----------



## stuckintexas

Brendan Redler said:


> I haven't noticed much of a difference when I ran CO2 24hrs a day vs. when I ran it only with the lights. I have a solenoid valve on my pressurized setup and I think I'm going to take it off. It's needlessly drawing current because I have it running 24/7. I would say don't worry about it, and if you're still worried about it...you can either shut off the pump, or pull the CO2 line out of the bottle so that CO2 is just offgassing into the air from the bottle.


i shouldnt worry about it because it wont harm my fish at night?


----------



## jackh

i did this mod and it works great imo. spits out microscoping bubbles everywhere and provides a little more circulation in the tank


----------



## niko

Stuckintexas,

I run all my CO2 tanks with the CO2 on 24/7. Never had a problem for 7 years now. Just the first night when I turn the CO2 I worry, but it's always in vain. No issues whatsoever.

--Nikolay


----------



## jackh

im about to order another one for another tank 

idk if this has been discussed yet cuz i dind't really wanna read every post on the last 11 pages. how do you keep shrimp and snails from getting sucked into the filter?


----------



## hoppycalif

niko said:


> Stuckintexas,
> 
> I run all my CO2 tanks with the CO2 on 24/7. Never had a problem for 7 years now. Just the first night when I turn the CO2 I worry, but it's always in vain. No issues whatsoever.
> 
> --Nikolay


I think it depends on how hard you are driving your plants. If you try to run the maximum concentration of CO2 in the water, over 30 ppm, then the fish can be bothered by it at night, unless you maintain really good water circulation and make sure there is plenty of dissolved oxygen in the water - a little ripple on the surface helps. And, the smaller the fish, the less they seem to be bothered by the CO2.


----------



## Tex Gal

jackh said:


> im about to order another one for another tank
> 
> idk if this has been discussed yet cuz i dind't really wanna read every post on the last 11 pages. how do you keep shrimp and snails from getting sucked into the filter?


I made a little netting sleeve to fit over the entire pump. Works great.


----------



## jackh

Tex Gal said:


> I made a little netting sleeve to fit over the entire pump. Works great.


did you use pantyhose or what?


----------



## niko

This is one of the good things about this Elite filter thing - it has a big strainer that lets snails pass over it and not get sucked and stuck. I don't need to sacrifice my pantyhose, no sir!

Truly an amazing, miraculous, design!

--Nikolay


----------



## Tex Gal

jackh said:


> did you use pantyhose or what?


I sew. I used some chiffon material.


----------



## jackh

ok. i have a slightly different internal filter that im using for the same thing on a different tank but snails and shrimp will easily get sucked into it. i guess ill cover it with panty hose. baby shrimp cant get through pantyhose right?


----------



## jackh

went to petco today and they didn't have it. is there any way i can check the availability of a product at a certain store location online?


----------



## Tex Gal

jackh said:


> went to petco today and they didn't have it. is there any way i can check the availability of a product at a certain store location online?


You could just order it online. That's what I did.


----------



## jackh

i went ahead and got the same thing i have in my other tank from a lfs here. works well imo, spits out a really fine mist of co2 that hangs at the surface


----------



## niko

Here's a video of this reactor in action. Forward to minute 2 and watch from there. I think on the video you can hear how the bubbles hit the impeller. Stuckintexas has a DIY yeast concoction feeding the reactor and the CO2 produced by the yeast is a lot. Normally you should not see that many bubbles escaping the magic sponge.






--Nikolay


----------



## Tex Gal

I modified my little pump. I took window screen (grey fiberglass, I think) and cut small pieces and super glued these pieces over the intakes. Now I don't have to worry about anything being sucked into it. I drilled another hole in the side for the air tubing so that it isn't squished at all. 

What a wonderful idea! Hats off to Niko! :yo:


----------



## CrownMan

I also bought this reactor and setup it up as Niko's instructions stated. I then though that it would be even better if I could run the CO2 into a ceramic diffuser prior to dispersion through the Hagen so I found a 1" ceramic air stone that puts out a fine fist, cut one of the slats out of the bottom of the filter, put the airstone inside where the filter used to be with the air nipple coming out the bottom. I hooked up the nipple to the pressurized CO2 and now have a very fine mist hitting the impeller and then to the sponge filter for easier absorption since the bubbles are even finer. 

Thanks Niko for the great design. Working with a bunch of engineers, we are always tinkering with left over parts to see how we can modify things.

CO2 in my 15G tall is 5.3 and with a HOB filter and very tiny bubbles coming from the sponge and most don't reach the survace.


----------



## hoppycalif

I now have mine installed so the output points directly towards the "cage" of my Koralia powerhead, and about an inch away from it, with no sponge on it. Now it spurts tiny bubbles of CO2 into the Koralia where they get blown all over the tank. The little "CO2 reactor" is so small it isn't easy to see behind the Koralia. Right now it is the best CO2 injection method I have used.


----------



## stuckintexas

this thing is very easy to use and works great. here is a video of mine in action.
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qDG4CE8PwQ

shorter clip focusing on the co2.


----------



## mulita

I think this post has earned a Sticky position!:first:..........Moderator!


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster

stuckintexas said:


> this thing is very easy to use and works great. here is a video of mine in action.
> http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qDG4CE8PwQ
> 
> shorter clip focusing on the co2.


Great clip!

Although I took a look at your other videos and the very first one you posted was...strange:fear:


----------



## davemill

CO2 doesn't "build up" at night. If you measure the level every hour or two, you will see that it rises a few ppm at night, that's all. CO2 does not affect the level of O2 in the water, or vice versa. If you leave your pressurized C02 on all night, your pH stays a bit more constant, but that's not a big deal either. CO2 does not bother the fish at night. 

Many people, myself included, have observed fish gasping at the surface at night or in the early morning in a plant tank with injected CO2. This usually occurs in a tank moderately or heavily stocked with fish. This is not caused by the CO2, but by the lack of surface agitation. Because most of us with injected CO2 also minimize the surface agitation to keep the CO2 in the water, we also lower the rate of O2 absorption into the water. During the night, plants absorb O2. The tank runs out of O2, even though it might have been supersaturated and pearling in the afternoon. 

All of the following solutions cause some CO2 loss, but will quickly stop the fish from gasping at the surface:

1. Fewer fish. (like that's going to happen!)

2. Let your filter agitate the surface. My Eheim canister filter spray bar is vertical. If I let the top stream squirt over the top of the water, this is sufficient agitation to solve the problem. I don't like this solution, because it creates splatter in my open top tank. I also don't like the noise. The plant guru in our fish club loves this solution, and it works well for him. 

3. Add a power head to agitate the surface. Use a timer to turn it on in the middle of the night and turn off when the lights come on. This is my current preferred solution, using a Maxi-Jet 600 power head. 

FYI, I am only aware of two cases where CO2 built up in a tank causing harm: In the first case, a tightly fitting glass cover had been siliconed in place along the back to prevent jumpers, and was held down tightly in front by the weight of the light hood. Pressurized CO2 built up between the water and the glass, forcing preventing O2 from reaching the water surface. In the second case, a custom tank was fitted into a custom entertainment unit, which closed tightly. Same result.


----------



## stuckintexas

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> Great clip!
> 
> Although I took a look at your other videos and the very first one you posted was...strange:fear:


birthday party, what can i say? i didnt arrange it nor was i going to back out of it. sure, she wasnt the hottest thing ive ever laid eyes on but it was a good time. live a little.

btw, i really appreciate you notifying youtube of the content of the video. my first strike, ive never had any problems in the past with it...its not like i posted that video on these boards. you are the one who decided to go view my other videos. you saw the thumbnail and you chose to view it. i have a hard time understanding your problem.


----------



## niko

Oh c'mon!

This thread is meant to help cheap adults to enjoy the planted tank hobby. The link to StuckInTexas' video of his aquarium did not lead to anything questionable. And he surely didn't get into this hobby with the secret intent to lead unsuspecting people to view certain "video materials".

Let's keep this thread true to it's topic.

--Nikolay


----------



## epicfish

If it wasn't 14 pages long, I'd go through this thread and see if anyone made any modifications to your original design in the first post, Niko.

Otherwise...do you know if any other mods? I want to order anything I need to save on shipping. 

Thanks.


----------



## epicfish

epicfish said:


> If it wasn't 14 pages long, I'd go through this thread and see if anyone made any modifications to your original design in the first post, Niko.
> 
> Otherwise...do you know if any other mods? I want to order anything I need to save on shipping.
> 
> Thanks.


Nevermind. Just thread through the thread.


----------



## niko

Here it is, the legendary cheapskate reactor, in a planted tank designed by Takashi Amano himself. Except that he forgot to put the sponge over the outflow:






Sorry, just had to post this after learning that adding "&fmt=18" at the end of the youtube URL results in a higher quality video.

--Nikolay


----------



## luckydud13

Hey, I know this is old, but when you modify it, does it still filter the water or not? THX


----------



## niko

Since we take the sponge from the intake and move it to the outtake there is still some filtration but:

1. The flow is much stronger and bacteria does not like that (has a hard time attaching)
2. CO2-rich water does not helpt the Oxygen loving bacteria.

Of course you can put another sponge in the inflow chamber.

--Nikolay


----------



## luckydud13

Hmmmmmm that would be nince. Might do that. Thanks for answering my questions.


----------



## ghengis

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> Great clip!
> 
> Although I took a look at your other videos and the very first one you posted was...strange:fear:





stuckintexas said:


> birthday party, what can i say? i didnt arrange it nor was i going to back out of it. sure, she wasnt the hottest thing ive ever laid eyes on but it was a good time. live a little.
> 
> btw, i really appreciate you notifying youtube of the content of the video. my first strike, ive never had any problems in the past with it...its not like i posted that video on these boards. you are the one who decided to go view my other videos. you saw the thumbnail and you chose to view it. i have a hard time understanding your problem.


I wanna see, I wanna see!! Gosh darn it, vid ain't there any more...spewin'!!


----------



## stuckintexas

ghengis said:


> I wanna see, I wanna see!! Gosh darn it, vid ain't there any more...spewin'!!


lmao 

unfortunately a member of this forum reported it and youtube took it off.


----------



## ghengis

...and yet, I can watch an Arowana being slowly torn to bits by a pack of starving Pirahna...or a group of school kids beating the life out of another student...or any manner of depraved, offensive acts from all over the world. I guess there's one rule for some, and another for others... :tape2:

Sorry :focus:


----------



## mrgedman

I'm sad i didn't get to see the questionable youtube video...

On topic - Is there a reactor like this for more nano sized tanks? Just got one of the 6.6 gal bookshelves, and am thinking about co2... the tank is just so small, this reactor seems overkill...

Any ideas?


----------



## stuckintexas

maybe use an external reactor?


----------



## Fortuna Wolf

stuckintexas said:


> lmao
> 
> unfortunately a member of this forum reported it and youtube took it off.


Grr, I hate spoilsports that ruin the fun for everyone else.

I actually use the reactor by itself as the only source of filtration in tanks up to 10 gallons, so yeah, I've used it to run CO2 in 2 gallon tanks! a 6.6 gallon should be fine. For anything smaller than 1 gallon you may have to get a small fountain pump and build an external filter - put the filter media in a canister, and then the airstone inline to the pump, and then from the pump back to the tank.

I've stopped trying to build pico tanks but that was my plan.

Now, what I came here to post was that I found out that this also makes a great little way to filter out green water! I have a tank that has had a lot of decomposition in hair grass due to a move which required me to drain the tank and travel several days with it. All the hairgrass leaves died and have been decomposing for 2 months (and still are! but its better now). Lots of ammonia and persistent green water... Well I noticed in another tank that I had replaced the filter media with blue filter foam and then a piece of -upholstery foam-, that the upholstery foam was green when I went to clean it after an ammonia spike! As I rinsed it out under the faucet I marveled at how much green was in the little piece of foam.

I went out, bought another one, stuck it in this 10 gallon tank that had green clouds of algae for the past month and a half, and packed in very tight an oversized piece of upholstery foam. If anyone wants to know this is foam I acquired from an upholstery fabric store as overcut (free!), its open cell urethane foam. The same stuff that comes in filter media, but its much much much finer.

The filter isn't 100% efficient but because it cycles so much water thorough it it is pretty effective. I clean it once a day and have for the past 2 weeks. Every day the filter is dark green and I squeeze out a prodigious amount of green water from it. The tank is now mostly clear but it won't become crystal clear I think until all of the leaves decompose. The filter has started to also become green-brown indicating that its catching less algae and now algae-bacteria.

If your current filter doesn't allow you to hang a bag of zeolite in a tank to drop the ammonia levels then you can still take out the green water by filtering it with this little wunderfilter.


----------



## niko

Say, Stuckintexas... 

When is your birthday?

--Nikolay


----------



## mrgedman

> The filter isn't 100% efficient but because it cycles so much water thorough it it is pretty effective. I clean it once a day and have for the past 2 weeks.


I'm not too wild about a filter that i have to clean daily, but it does sound worthwhile; the filter i currently have does not seem too effective, and I've read that other people with the 6.6 bookshelf aren't too wild about it either... Just got my plants a la ebay today, and boy is it great to be back in the planted aquarium scene! Going to start my journal eventually, need to borrow a decent camera from friends...

Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## Fortuna Wolf

mrgedman said:


> I'm not too wild about a filter that i have to clean daily, but it does sound worthwhile; the filter i currently have does not seem too effective, and I've read that other people with the 6.6 bookshelf aren't too wild about it either... Just got my plants a la ebay today, and boy is it great to be back in the planted aquarium scene! Going to start my journal eventually, need to borrow a decent camera from friends...
> 
> Thanks for the feedback!


I'm cleaning it out once a day to filter out green water. Now that my green water is gone I clean it weekly. With the small foam filter in it I dial it back all the way and my bettas are fine with it in 2 gallon tanks.


----------



## latte hiatus

I've tried looking for the Hagen Elite Mini at three retailers in my surrounding area (East SF Bay, CA): the LFS, Petco, and Petsmart, and all have discontinued carrying it. Ended up ordering it through Petco.com, and can't wait to try it out when it arrives. Unfortunately, future DIY aquatic botanists may have to find another internal filter to modify into a powered CO2 reactor.


----------



## supersmirky

So do you need a pump with higher GPH if you have a larger tank?? Or does it really not matter?

My tank is 7ft long, and getting across the tank seems to be a hard thing to accomplish


----------



## stuckintexas

just make sure that whatever you use to get co2 into the water is efficient. reactors work best i think. for a tank that long, just make sure you have good flow to distribute nutrients. maybe you need a koralia 3 or 4 to do this...i dont know because ive never used one nor have i ever owned a tank that long. whatever you do, find a way to move the water around.


----------



## Tex Gal

supersmirky said:


> So do you need a pump with higher GPH if you have a larger tank?? Or does it really not matter?
> 
> My tank is 7ft long, and getting across the tank seems to be a hard thing to accomplish


I can't imagine this little device being able to serve your tank. I have a 6' tank and just went to a DYI 3" diameter 18" long CO2 reactor. It's powered by a 950 gph pump. It's returned to the tank by a 6' spraybar along the back wall of the tank. It works great. Haven't noticed dead areas. I have plenty of flow as this is coupled with 2 XP3's - one spaying out at each end.


----------



## niko

One of these Super Magic Chinese Elite filters is enough for a 75 gallon tank. A standard 75 is 4 ft. long. So I'd say 2 of these filters will be good for a 7 ft. tank, no matter how crazy that could sound.

--Nikolay


----------



## supersmirky

LOL...thanks!


----------



## davezub

Just went to pressurized co2 and was looking for a good diffusion method (can't user reactor have HOB). Went through just about everything and saw this thread. Popped out to the Petco and gave it a try. At first I thought it was not working! The bubbles were so minuscule compared to my ceramic diffuser, and other methods, I could barely see them. I had to get down on my hands and knees and mush up to the glass. Much smaller than the videos I've seen. If I took a video I don't think the bubbles would be seen :supz: A lot of bubbles almost too tiny to see. 

I did do some modifications:

1. Used an exacto knife (easier than drilling for me). To make a hole in the lower case rather than squeezing it through the flow connector. Twisting the exacto in makes a almost perfect hole. This also allows you to still use the flow adjustment for smaller tanks. 

2. I then used a connector from one of my cheap white airstones I had around (the piece that goes into the stone and connects the tubing). I put this inside the lower case (smaller hole size end inside) with the barb poking out. I then connected the tube. This keeps the tube from coming out of the case, reduces the bubble size somewhat since the hole is smaller, and allows you to locate the end right under the impeller without the tube hitting the impeller. One of those elbow connectors would be better, but I did not have one. This could be glued or caulked but I wanted to see how it worked first. I did not use the actual airstone just the connector.

3. Noise. I hear a lot of people complain about the noise, but I don't know if it was the airstone connector, or it is behind a rock, I can only hear it when I put my head next to the tank. Even then it is very hard to hear anything if you were not looking for it. 

4. To sponge or not to sponge that is the question. I tried both ways and only like the sponge if I remove most of the internal sponge and the outlet is fairly close to the outside of the sponge (thin piece of sponge). I am currently using the sponge. I think this is because the bubble size is so small even without the sponge.

So I will be selling my ceramic diffuser and other stuff - LOL. Got to say best 9 bucks I spent.


----------



## hellohefalump

oh my goodness this idea is the best best best!!!!

My neighbour gave me a tiny filter (which just happened to be the hagen elite!) so I thought 'give it a try'. 

My drop checker has changed colour! This diffusing method is sooo much more efficient (for the record, I've been used the JBL spiralling diffuser, with extension kit). 

You can see the teeny tiny bubbles at the other end of the tank - and my tank is 5' long!

I'm going to be buying another Hagen elite filter, and doing the same thing at the other end of the tank (I'm using two CO2 kits one at each end).

The only thing is, it's noisy. Also I had to make the hole bigger, which I did using toe nail scissors. The filter wouldn't shut properly before I cut the hole bigger.


----------



## taoyeah

i bought the mini underwater filter today.i saw alot tiny co2 bubbles comes out from the sponge.my tank is 30G.im afraid the fish will die there too much co2 in the tank,so i put a airpump with airstone inside the tank to increase the oxygen.


----------



## Pat Bowerman

Another big thumbs up on this one. I bought the Hagen Mini, followed the instructions posted here, and that little thing is amazing. Now, I've tiny, tiny little bubbles floating around my tank and the plants are pearling like crazy. I'll admit to being nervous that it might be too efficient, but I left it on last night and the fish were fine this morning. I also really don't mind the noise. Without it, I wouldn't know how many bubbles per second I was putting in. (no bubble counter on this one) I've got a 20L and I'm adding CO2 at the rate of 1 bubble per sec.

So far, so good. Thanks for posting this.


----------



## niko

I know, this reactor keeps on giving!

Yesterday I broke down a 30 gallon tank that was completely overgrown with moss and Java Fern. It had one of the Super Magic Elite reactors in it. I couldn' see it but I remembered it was in there.

The plants kept growing like crazy even though the CO2 had run out months ago. THAT'S how amazing this reactor is! It works even without CO2!

...Now, what would be even better - if you remove the actual reactor from the tank and the plants still grow! I think it can pull this one off, this reactor is indeed something alien... its presence in the room may make the plants grow... We shall see...

--Nikolay


----------



## Tex Gal

LOL. You may have just gone to far..


----------



## Sunstar

magic reactors...hmmmmmm


----------



## jriley

Hey all,

Great thread. I am about to set mine up but the pics are missing. Any idea how to see the pics posted on page 2 or 3?

Thanks,

jriley


----------



## nemenem

Im trying to see them too, the petco link doesnt work anymore. Does anyone have a link to what these look like or where they are available online?


----------



## Nixy

http://www.petco.com/product/13796/Hagen-Elite-Mini-Underwater-Filter.aspx

That's a link for the filter. I found one at my petco and I always figured the ones around here never have anything.


----------



## macclellan

I love this little reactor and circulator combo. I've got two and they do the job wonderfully!


----------



## apm

u guys are crazy ...lol I like it.. I have also made something similar in the past but plants and dirt kept getting in the intake (big intake)


----------



## suliman

could i use this reactor with a DIY yeast CO2 bottle, or is this just for pressurized systems?


----------



## niko

You can use it with DIY yeast CO2 reactor. Just make sure that the end of the tubing is not too close to the impeller of the pump. Theoretically if the impeller is very close to the tubing it can suck air/gas/liquid from the DIY bottle. 

Basically you will be safe if the CO2 bubbles are released under the impeller and naturally float into the impeller.

--Nikolay


----------



## DUHK

6. The filter comes with a flow nozzle. Put the sponge removed in step 3 over this nozzle.
7. Attach the flow nozzle to the filter.


Does anyone have a picture of those steps?


----------



## niko

Probably noone will take a picture of these steps.

But they are very simple:

Imagine that in front of you you have 3 things:
1. The pump
2. Plastic pipe about 3/4" long
3. A sponge with a hole in the middle

Insert the pipe in the hole of the sponge. Now you have a sponge with a piece of pipe sticking out of it.

Now insert the pipe in the pump (where the water comes out). Now you have a pump with a sponge attached to it.

Done.

--Nikolay


----------



## Akaizhar

I just bought one of these after viewing this thread.

Absolutely adore the design, niko is a genius!


----------



## Docszoo

God, i just read every single page and post on this threat. Quit interesting stuff.

However, I am guessing it isn't the safest thing to use if you are a complete n00b like me with fish in 12 gallon tank with plants as well.

Unless of course I am seeing things the wrong way here


----------



## ashappard

its just as safe as other methods for injecting CO2.
Start with a low bubble rate and watch the fish closely for signs of discomfort.
if they are gasping at the surface, seem otherwise agitated then back off on the gas.

this is a very efficient and inexpensive way to inject CO2 in a small aquarium.


----------



## talkingplant

This is a very nice little project. Yeah! Something to work on tonight. Thanks.


----------



## vancat

cool
I am in on this project!
Thanks Niko!


----------



## vancat

Just got the only one left. 
Can someone repost the original pics, they seem to be gone now.
Thanks!


----------



## Wire Fox Terror

I thought I might have trouble setting it up without pictures but it's a really simple process and you'll have no problem if you just follow the written instructions. It only takes a couple of minutes to put it together. I'm about to go out and purchase a second one today which will completely uglify my ADA tank but it works so well, I don't care anymore.


----------



## vancat

thanks WFT!


----------



## saulat

I keep having problems with my Co2 bubble rate dropping to nothing, only had it going for a few days. I don't want to set it too high and hurt the fish but setting it around 2-3 bubbles per second and it ends up stopping. I am running it into a aqua tech power head I bought at wal-mart for 20$, not the cheapest solution but it is working decently well. Some of the bigger bubbles go to the top but there are smaller bubbles circulating around my 55 gallon. I actually just bought a 2nd aqua tech today and am thinking about setting it directly above to push the bubbles around even more. I may pick up this mini filter and put it below one or both of these power heads. I may be out of outlets though and no petco near me lol. Still need to pick up a drop checker too.


----------



## Tex Gal

saulat said:


> I keep having problems with my Co2 bubble rate dropping to nothing, only had it going for a few days. I don't want to set it too high and hurt the fish but setting it around 2-3 bubbles per second and it ends up stopping. I am running it into a aqua tech power head I bought at wal-mart for 20$, not the cheapest solution but it is working decently well. Some of the bigger bubbles go to the top but there are smaller bubbles circulating around my 55 gallon. I actually just bought a 2nd aqua tech today and am thinking about setting it directly above to push the bubbles around even more. I may pick up this mini filter and put it below one or both of these power heads. I may be out of outlets though and no petco near me lol. Still need to pick up a drop checker too.


How can it be dropping to nothing if you are pumping it into the pump? The bubbles have to be going somewhere. Are you saying that it just belches big bubbles and not small ones? Is your pump vertical or at a position that it can't get trapped in the pump? Do you have it feeding into the pump too rapidly for the pump to mix with enough water to spit it out? Do you have a small sponge on the outside to help break the bubbles into even smaller pieces?


----------



## ashappard

maybe he means his CO2 flow rate is dropping -- like 2-3bps on the bubble counter and then slows eventually to nothing? Needle valve drifting or clogged?


----------



## saulat

I feel like it is the needle valve drifting. I see the decrease in the bubble counter. I busted my MNV-4K2 and went back to using a larger clippard model although I had this problem with both valves. I am trying only adjusting the regulator pressure now without adjustments to the needle valve, I should know if that worked when I get home tonight. Also, I ordered my drop checker yesterday.


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi saulat,

I found that about 20 PSI on the output of my regulator worked best of my setup.


----------



## saulat

Thanks, probly not the right place to post this stuff but I just got home and it had stopped again. I turned up the regulator to 30 PSI and still no bubbles so somehow the needle valve is closing up on me. I am going to add teflon tape to the threads and really am at a loss as to what I can do to fix this. There is no lock nut on the knob so that isn't an option either. Maybe I'll just go and get a metering valve if I can't fix this. One other thing I may try is running a tube direct from the valve to the water with no check valve or bubble counter to see if anything changes, hopefully no back siphon into my equipment.


----------



## saulat

I may have found an extra cheap method if anyone can find a way to use it. Supposed to fill it with filter fiber, so maybe some extra fine sponge and then place it by circulation. I think I got my CO2 working in my power head finally. I saw this at meijer, 2 dollars.


----------



## OzDreamer

Thanks to Niko for creating this thread. I just checked online, and the filter is still under $10 2 years later. I am planning on picking one up this weekend.

Thanks,
Christopher


----------



## TarantulaGuy

Niko! Bless you for this thread. I just set this up, and its working wonders. I love hearing the little "pish pish pish" of the bubbles hitting the intake too. Its the satisfying sound of plants making love everywhere :lol:. I didn't see pics in the last couple pages, so here are my dis-assembly pics for the curious. I ran the c02 intake through the lower intake screening instead of the adjustment dial slot, it was a better fit and I was working with stiffer tubing. Other than that, I'm assuming this is how everyone else did it.


----------



## niko

Nice to have pictures again! 

I just switched the powerhead I was using to one of these contraptions. Didn't change the bubble rate and the next morning had to save the fish from suffocating. Reduced the bubble rate in half and still had to add a powerhead to stir the water surface so the fish stop breathing heavily.

Other than watching out for increased levels of CO2 this is it - the thing works every time.

--Nikolay


----------



## lnb

I've read "most" of this thread and very tempted to switch from my ceramic diffuser to this. 

I have pressurized Co2 with a solenoid on a timer to go on with my lights. Would I need to setup this diffuser on the same timer or can I leave this on when the Co2 is off? 

I didn't see any mention of this but it could have been in the pages I skipped. The thread is just too long to read it all. It's got me going .

Hey, thanks to TarantulaGuy for the pics.


----------



## Tex Gal

You can leave it on when the CO2 is off. I do. You just get a little more water movement - that's good.


----------



## Bunnie1978

Well, I ordered 4 of them! They are on sale right now for $7.49 until 10/5 AND the shipping for multiples isn't much more than for just one. I am going to put one on each side of my 75 gallon with 4 2L CO2s and use the other two in my smaller tanks for better circulation. I'm so excited!!


----------



## Bunnie1978

Niko, I understand the filter is really small, what do you think of the idea of putting the whole airstone inside the filter where the sponge would be? Instead of having larger bubbles, you would have a fine stream of little tiny bubbles. I don't have the filters yet, but that's what I'm thinking about. Would it work do you think?


----------



## AquaX

Hi, "Bunnie1978". That's the way myself and a few others are doing it, only we place the airstone inside the sponge.


----------



## Bunnie1978

Cool! I have a DIY set up - I'm going to have 4 bottles in a 75 gal. Do you think those filters have enough power to suction out of the airstone with yeast bottles?


----------



## AquaX

I've had two of these on two different setups with the DIY Yeast method, using Hagen's "fine mist" airstones and never had any issues.


----------



## niko

Ok let's take this thread further into the light.

Just putting the CO2-tubing in the pump without an airstone accomplishes 3 things:

1. The obvious - supplies CO2

2. The bubble counting.
If you listen carefully you can hear each bubble hitting the impeller. The sound is very gentle. You get used to it and tune "in" to it only when you want. I'm sitting here about 10 ft from my tank and I can hear the sound if I want. But don't think that the sound is loud. Even if you stand right in front of the tank you can't hear it unless you mean to. The sound is like a pinch of sand being gently dropped on paper.

If you diffuse the CO2 at the end of the tubing the "bubble counting feature" of this DIY diffuser of cosmic proportions will disappear. You will not get any better efficiency out of it with an air stone. The magic is in the sponge being over the pump outflow. The CO2 gets trapped there and only the tiniest bubbles escape (if any).

3. The power failure protection
Yes, this legendary design has a built-in power failure protection too. It will not allow the CO2 to be difused if the pump is not working. If the pump is not working there could be a power failure and there is no water movement. If you continue to disolve the CO2 as usual say good bye to your fish.

Without an air stone if the pump stops working the CO2 bubbles come out of the end of the tubing and do not get chopped up by the impeller. They find their way out of the pump and float to the surface. No solubilization takes place. Your fish are safe.

By the way one of these pumps is enough for a 75 gal. tank. That's with pressurized CO2. Old Skool DIY CO2 brewers should not feel a need for a second pump. But hey! It's so cool!

75g. tank with only 1 (one) "tiny-super-efficient-imperial-panda-supper buffet-looka lahka man" reactor:
http://picasaweb.google.com/ddasega/DaveS#

I'm now working on this same design but made of pure gold. Exquisite item for your aquascape. Only for the true connosieur.

--Nikolay


----------



## Bunnie1978

You put alot of emphasis on bubble counting. Is that really that important? Shouldn't I have as much CO2 as I can get while still maintaining an appropriate PH level?


----------



## AquaX

Hi, Nico. You've made some very good points here.


> If you diffuse the CO2 at the end of the tubing the "bubble counting feature" of this DIY diffuser of cosmic proportions will disappear. You will not get any better efficiency out of it with an air stone.


 In my experience, having experimented with both methods in two almost identical tanks with PH controllers on both, I found that with diffusing through airstone into sponge and dispersing throughout the tank I reached that sweet spot allot quicker than with the other. Whether the one is more efficient than the other is debatable as there are too many contributing attributes in differing setups. Ideally you should experiment with what works best for you in your setup, but regardless, I think one thing we can all agree on is that this is one tiny super efficient CO2 reactor.


> The power failure protection Yes, this legendary design has a built-in power failure protection too. It will not allow the CO2 to be difused if the pump is not working. If the pump is not working there could be a power failure and there is no water movement. If you continue to disolve the CO2 as usual say good bye to your fish. Without an air stone if the pump stops working the CO2 bubbles come out of the end of the tubing and do not get chopped up by the impeller. They find their way out of the pump and float to the surface. No solubilization takes place. Your fish are safe.


 This is a very good point and one that would not even have crossed my mind, mainly because I have backup power and is thus of no concern to me really. Also it only really apply to the DIY yeast method as with a pressurized system your solenoid valve would shut off with the power, assuming you are using a solenoid valve and have no backup power source.


----------



## WhiteDevil

I tried this, works great for what it is. I have since added a RUGF system to my planted tank and am using the inlet on the PH to administer my Co2. I do still have the elite going just on a smaller tank this time.


----------



## lnb

*Woooow* .............. I just did this using a small airstone. I have never seen such fine micro bubbles. They're so fine that they basically disappear and you have to look really hard to see them floating around.

YouTube - short version 




Long version 




Video quality is not great - recorded with a cell phone.


----------



## Bunnie1978

That's awesome little video! Thanks! I'm so excited, mine should arrive tomorrow. I'm going to take everything out of the tank and rearrange when I put them in. I can't wait to see what my new CO2 can do for my plants!


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi lnb,

Nice video! BTW nice java fern 'Trident' as well!


----------



## lnb

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi lnb,
> 
> Nice video! BTW nice java fern 'Trident' as well!


Thanks ............... that Trident is huge isn't it. Needs a pruning.


----------



## Bunnie1978

Well, I got them in. I actually drilled a hole in the side of bottom of the filter to thread through the tubing. Otherwise let everything else alone. They put out pretty good flow for such a little tiny filter. I have one problem, which is not yet solved - I have two filters, one on each side of my 75 gallon, and the airline is split in the middle. Well, the CO2 will only come out of one of them, no matter how balanced the pressure should be... I would like the CO2 to come out both sides, but maybe that's just not going to happen, and I should do just one in the middle. What do you think?


----------



## iat814

I got one today. I have a wooden diffuser that i put into the black box from the bottom. The wooden diffuser already produces very fine bubbles and now with the elite the bubbles are super fine. It's great. Thanks for the idea.


----------



## Bunnie1978

Well, here's what I've got. This picture shows the fine bubbles, but it's only coming out one side. I still have the second filter running, but it's just providing air flow. The weird thing is that the airline from the second filter is pushing water from that side to the spit, so the bubbles are spaced out.


----------



## niptek

just ordered mine for a 10gallon at petco.com 10% off code:Ken10. Ill be running diy yeast sugar co2 24/7. gonna try it with the chopstick at the end of the tube.


----------



## jjm619

nice, really helpful thread, just did this after work and works like a charm...just got a curious newbie question, should i place the reactor as far as possible from my filter where most of the surface agitation is or does it not make a difference? right now it's positioned right under my filter


----------



## tbonedeluxe

I just got mine out of the mail today,on ebay for $10 shipped.Thanks everyone for all the info and feedback.
Same question as jjm619." Does it matter if the elite is right below hob filter? Thats where i put it for now,sideways with vents pointing up.I also am using a fine air stone through the bottom. ;-)


----------



## tug

:yo:Very nice! Not sure I would call it a reactor. In the strictest sense of the word it's more of a great diffusion method. Maybe someone could correct the title of the thread from reactor to diffuser. Think of ways to maximize CO2 levels around the whole tank like a power head. If your adding CO2 and the bubbles are just gassing off to the surface they wont be of much help to your plants. Diffusers are great if the bubbles are circulating around the plants. If you want fewer bubbles and more CO2 in solution then thats a reactor. They both benefit from good water flow throughout the tank.


----------



## mikslik

Thanks for the post, I'm going to try this on my new 30 gallon


----------



## tug

Do you have the Elite? Great, might be a nice reactor. *How large is the reaction chamber?* If you've attached the sponge. Could a 1/2" line go between the sponge and the pump? There are a few of these designs - lots of powerhead adaptations out there. Run a line, (1/2 inch) with all those bubbles, using a small spray bar, capping the end. It would be very cool. *Does anyone know what size fitting the sponge is attached to?*


----------



## sukhkawal

WoW. i got a headache. just read 22 pages of this thread , word for word. wheres niko, he hasnt posted recently, but anyway , gonna buy this tomorrow, and set it up, i might post some pictures later for the people who might be confused. Thanks niko, you saved me. i was about to buy a wooden airstone and run it under a powerhead. but your idea is gold, wonder how you came up with it. Hope everything works out. GN all


----------



## niko

Sukhkawal,

You don't need to buy the Elite filter. You can use any powerhead. But you must put a sponge over the outflow. 

The sponge traps the CO2 bubbles and at the same time lets water run through. So the trapped bubbles stay put and have no choice but to disolve in the water.

Using the Elite is good because it's cheap, easy to turn into a CO2 reactor, small size, black in color (hide well), and the strainer on the intake is big so snails don't get sucked and stuck on it. Using any other powerhead will require more DIY to take care of the things the Elite happen to just have by design, out of the box.

Once again - the Elite filter is enough to provide CO2 for a heavily planted 75 gallon tank. So don't assume you need a bigger powerhead or something. The water flow in a planted tank must be very good to allow the CO2 from the Elite to go everywhere. Don't expect to have measly water flow and good plant growth.

--Nikolay


----------



## sukhkawal

niko said:


> Sukhkawal,
> 
> You don't need to buy the Elite filter. You can use any powerhead. But you must put a sponge over the outflow.
> 
> The sponge traps the CO2 bubbles and at the same time lets water run through. So the trapped bubbles stay put and have no choice but to disolve in the water.
> 
> Using the Elite is good because it's cheap, easy to turn into a CO2 reactor, small size, black in color (hide well), and the strainer on the intake is big so snails don't get sucked and stuck on it. Using any other powerhead will require more DIY to take care of the things the Elite happen to just have by design, out of the box.
> 
> Once again - the Elite filter is enough to provide CO2 for a heavily planted 75 gallon tank. So don't assume you need a bigger powerhead or something. The water flow in a planted tank must be very good to allow the CO2 from the Elite to go everywhere. Don't expect to have measly water flow and good plant growth.
> 
> --Nikolay


well, i was going to buy an expensive powerhead, but this seems much more effective. i have a 36 gall. bowfront with emperor 280 hob filter, and for now will be doing DIY co2. so do you think i will have to buy another powerhead to increase water flow?


----------



## goldfishes

I just had to say a big THANK YOU to Niko for posting this. I was pushing 3 bps on my previous inline reactor and I still didn't have good diffusion. After a few hours, I had to lower the bubbles down to 1 bps for the fish and the plants are super healthly looking!


----------



## niko

sukhkawal said:


> well, i was going to buy an expensive powerhead, but this seems much more effective. i have a 36 gall. bowfront with emperor 280 hob filter, and for now will be doing DIY co2. so do you think i will have to buy another powerhead to increase water flow?


Usually with HOB filters you need to increase the CO2 supply a little because the HOB filters stirs the water near the surface and some of the CO2 is lost.

I can't say if you are going to need additional ways to move the water. Try with jsut the Elite only first and see.

--Nikolay


----------



## sukhkawal

niko said:


> Usually with HOB filters you need to increase the CO2 supply a little because the HOB filters stirs the water near the surface and some of the CO2 is lost.
> 
> I can't say if you are going to need additional ways to move the water. Try with jsut the Elite only first and see.
> 
> --Nikolay


cool, thanks for the help, and i appreciate you still updating your thread even after TWO YEARS 
and BTW, i always fill my tank all the way to the top, so my hob filter doesnt stir up the water..

so here are the tips i got from all the previous pages.

1) add an airstoen before putting co2 tube into filter. (increases efficiency).
2) add sponge to the filters output (increases efficiency).
3) make sure co2 tubing is not too close to impeller, or it can suck air,gas,liquid from co2 bottle.
4) To avoid the CO2 from accumulating in the filter when the pump is off, mount the pump sideways. So the gas can escape through the strainer bars.

hey niko, please update first page on thread and add these tips, add any i missed, and change if necessary. THANKS


----------



## Hurriken

I just installed this on my 10G. It isn't bad looking. It is black and my background is black. It is also smaller and easier to hide than the bubble ladder!

Some questions:

1) Do I leave the venturi that comes with it off or should I hook it up?

2)I removed the green lever and inserted the tube but it is pinched. Is that OK or should I enlarge the hole?

3) I saw many people use an air stone but I had a ceramic diffuser and the DIY CO2 didn't have enough pressure to push the CO2 through. Should I just leave it the way it is?

4) I'm confused about the discussion of whether to turn it off or not. How do you turn off the CO2 Or do you mean I should turn off the filter and just let the CO2 dissipate?

Thanks for posting this and thanks for the help. This exactly what I've been looking for.


----------



## niko

Hurriken,

Plug up the venturi. I usually just heat it up slightly and pinch it shut.

The CO2-tubing being pinched is fine. The bubble will find its way out and that's all that matters.

There is no need for an airstone. I don't understand why people believe that using an airstone increases the efficiency of the super-duper-cheap rector. It's ultra efficient as it is, no airstone. Using an airstone will reduce or eliminate the gentle sound that the bubble makes when hitting the impeller. That may be the only reason to use an airstone. But you loose the "audio bubble counter".

There is not a single proof that turning off the CO2 at night will make a considerably better planted tank. Amano shuts off his Co2 at night and adds O2 so everybody nowadays thinks that shutting off the CO2 at night is the best thing ever. There is no need to shut off the CO2 at night. You will save some CO2 but you will introduce variations of the CO2 and pH. Takes 30 min for all the CO2 to leave the tank at night. Takes 1-3 hours to build back up in the morning. Inconsitency is enemy #1 of any planted tank. Try it and see for yourself but what's simplest is the best.

--Nikolay


----------



## Hurriken

Thanks Nikolay, I can hear the bubbles "ticking" now. They are not steady but I just set it up tonight. I'm glad you said I don't have to shut it off. What I want is simple and easy. I think the current it put off is an added bonus to help with algae. 

In the videos I see people mounting it down low in the tank, is that best?


----------



## niko

With the sponge over the outtake (where the water comes out) you should not have a lot of flow. There is just minimal flow because the water has to make its way out of the sponge. But for a 10 gal. tank it will be a good addition the the water flow.

Putting the pump as low as possible in the tank helps to improve the efficiency. Tiny, duslike bubbles will make their way out of the sponge. There aren't many of them but if the pump is as deep as possible these tiny bubbles have to make it to the surface. While floating up they continue to disolve. 

Also - it's easier to hide the pump near the bottom. If it's high up it will always be visible.

The first few hours after setting up the CO2 the gas flow is pretty erratic. You need to stay there and adjust it every so often until it gets constant. The sound coming from the pump really helps - it's actually an easier way to gauge bubble rate than counting bubbles.

Now have in mind that this cheap reactor will REALLY improve the CO2 solubilization. You will have to decrease the bubble rate about 50% from what you used to have. Otherwise your fish will suffocate in no time.

If you leave the reactor on 24/7 make sure that floating debries don't accumulate on the intake strainer. They will reduce the water flow and your CO2 will fluctuate. Just make sure that the pump strainer is always clean.

--Nikolay


----------



## Hurriken

How do you adjust CO2? Install a mechanical valve?


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster

I'm sorry if this has been answered before, but when I put in the end of my CO2 tubing into where the flow control slider was, I turned it on and it created a vacuum (pumped water into the DIY bottle). How can I fix this?


----------



## niko

Hurriken said:


> How do you adjust CO2? Install a mechanical valve?


The CO2 comes from a pressurized bottle. The bottle has a regulator installed that reduces the very high pressure to a usable low pressure. A small "needle valve" is used to regulate the CO2 flow going into the super-duper-ultra-imperial-panda-Chinese reactor.

--Nikolay


----------



## Hurriken

Ah OK, I'm using DIY CO2. My fish seem OK so far.


----------



## niko

Zoo,

I'm not sure how the suction of the small pump can create a vacuum that will suck the air out of your plastic soda bottle. Maybe you made the yeast mixture and it was hot and while cooling off it created the vacuum?

--Nikolay


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster

niko said:


> Zoo,
> 
> I'm not sure how the suction of the small pump can create a vacuum that will suck the air out of your plastic soda bottle. Maybe you made the yeast mixture and it was hot and while cooling off it created the vacuum?
> 
> --Nikolay


Well the yeast mixture was old (over a month). I'll try making a new batch and see if that changes anything.


----------



## Hurriken

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> Well the yeast mixture was old (over a month). I'll try making a new batch and see if that changes anything.


IMO it only lasts 10-15 days.


----------



## CrimsonTsavo

I am so doing this. Thanks for the idea!


----------



## niko

Ok!

I've checked how many people have read this thread as of today December 04, 2009. It's about 60,000. 

That doesn't make me happy. The count needs to be at least 100 0000. So here's my rant:

No doubt this thread is the ultra-greatest thread of all times. Everybody should get a whiff of what this thread is about. Between the lines it shows the state of the planted aquarium hobby as it has been since at least 2002. Namely how stingy, tight, and unwilling to spend money we all are on things that make our hobby grow. I made fun of that all over this thread. If this was an $50 project very few of us would even read the thread. Most of us would go with ridiculous external reactors made of PVC pipe because they cost next to nothing. Or choose an elegant, inefficient, and hard to maintain Chinese glass diffuser because it costs $10 on ebay.

Of course there are hobyists that simply can't afford much. I'm not critizing them. I'm ridiculing the rest of us that would blow $50 on unhealthy food, video games and what not, but act stupid when buying something for their planted tank. Me included.

So! Why am posting the above? Because a 60K reader's count makes this thread a soap box on which you can stand and shout things. My reason to shout is simple to understand - look at the reef tank community. It's full of people that know little, talk too much, and spend a lot. That has assured the immense progress of their hobby. In the planted tank hobby we don't need to spend a lot. Nor do we need to talk to much and neglect our tanks. But we need to understand how our attitude can change things. Oh this sounds so wise!

In 2005 you could not buy a rimless tank. ADG bravely changed that. Before 2009 (Orlando from GLA) you could only buy a rimless ADA tank and everybody considered cheaper and ugly alternatives to ADG. Today we have a choice. We have it because we have gotten wiser about the cheap alternatives and are willing to spend more for the right product.

Let that trend continue. Make and use my $10 super-duper-panda-buffet internal reactor. But don't let that stop you from considering quality products IF they are available. 

I urge you to look at your planted tank expenses considering the wellbeing of the hobby. 

And as usual to keep this confusing - I'm trying the $10 reactor on a 180 gallon tank. I'll post if it actually works well.

--Nikolay


----------



## Kamon

I bought this small filter for my 29 gallon. Its breaks the bubbles down into incredibly small ones. I'd choose this over the glass diffusers anyday.


----------



## Tex Gal

Niko - you are TOO funny!!


----------



## EWUeagle

My hats off to you Niko I'm still fairly new to the hobby but this is the best thread I have read thus far. I am surprised it took me this long to find it! You deserve your soapbox Thank you


----------



## sukhkawal

okay, i have set this up, now for 2 weeks. have changed diy bottle twice(once per week). and still co2 is only 12ppm(ph7.4,kh-10). while out of tap it is 8ppm(ph7.6-kh-10). i have no surface agiation, and can hear whoosh whoosh sound about every 2 sec. my mixture is 1cup sugar,tank water,1/2 tsp yeast (feischmann's rapidrise). WHYYY?


----------



## niko

Sukhkawal,

Surface agitation REALLY makes things move. I have the exact same issue in the 180 gal. tank where I just put this same reactor. Surface agitation allows for gas exchange (all sorts of gasses) and in the past I've seen big changes after providing good surface agitation. So fix that issue first.

1 bubble every 2 seconds maybe too little for your size tank. Also the DIY yeast method shouild be able to produce more CO2 than that. Unless your room temperature is below 65 I don't see a reason for the slow CO2 production.

Do you have light over the tank? What about plants? 

Lastly - forget the stupid water tests. They are always wrong. Sometimes WAY wrong. You can calibrate them (search APC for that), but testing the water is a way to just get a general idea what's what. Never a precise number. You can see trends but that's about it. 

--Nikolay


----------



## Bunnie1978

I had 4 bottles on my 75 gallon with that reactor and I had great CO2 production. I Also used almost 2 cups of sugar to 1/2 tsp yeast in warm declorinated tap water. I changed one bottle each week and rotated them out, but even the 4 week old bottles were still producing yeast. When I switched my big tank to pressurized, I moved the DIY to a 39 gallon, only the 3 newer bottles, and I still had some CO2 a month later coming out. You may need to look at how many bottles you have, the recipe you're using, and I agree with Niko, forget the tests. You should be able to watch your CO2 with this reactor entering your water as tiny bubbles and follow them circling around your tank, depending on the placement of the mini-filter.


----------



## sukhkawal

well i have a 36g. and only 1 2l,ill try to put another bottle. but niko is confusing me. he says you need surface agitation, when i thought that gets rid of co2 and brings in oxygen. if you meant water movement. i do have a powerhead. should i place the powerhead on top of the elite filter, to move around the co2??


----------



## niko

Sukhkawal,

I do mean surface agitation. Looking like this:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dLSVgS5AxBI/SLz6ptTvdsI/AAAAAAAAMkU/PphiaP1MQUI/s400/Amanoaquascape.jpg
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/4543/ilotdroite5guin.jpg

On both pictures above a hair drier has been used to create the beautiful effect. What you want is about half of the agitation you see on the picture. Not breaking the surface but more of a smooth movement (laminar, not turbulent -meaning you want smooth waves). This one is just a little on the strong side:
http://www.zachandchristie.com/plant_pics/dolomites_aquascape.jpg

--Nikolay


----------



## niko

Oh yes! It appears that you can in fact use a single tiny reactor in a 180 gallon tank!

Time to raise this thread to new heights!

Here's a photoshopped picture of my tank from last night:









And two non-photoshopped:


















You can make out the reactor placed horizontally behind the wood and a little to the left.

In the last 4-5 days I scrubbed BBA in that tank using a wire brush. The tank looked spectacular with BBA covering all the branches. Quite a few people commented on the beauty of it. But I'd have none of that. Not even a single picture of it. So after about 1 year of BBA I got after the tank. Wire brush, moderate water changes (15-20 gallons) every 2-3 days, spot treating with Excel and also just adding Excel to the water.

In the fight against BBA lowering the pH should play at least some role. Tank is beautiful even as a hardscape. I hope that it will not eventually turn into yet another Amanoesque copy. And here's the interesting part about the CO2:

pH readings as of today:

Tap water 7.00 - 7.15
Tank 5.98 - 6.10

So: *One super-duper-$10 internal reactor will lower the pH with about 1.0 in a 160-180 gallon tank.*

I write a pH range because I'm very critical of the pH readings. I calibrated the pH meter before taking these readings. No matter if the pH meter is off or not it clearly shows a huge drop in the pH value.

Now the real test is plants actualy growing in the tank. I could care less about some pH meter readings.

Updates to follow. Here's a video from last night:





--Nikolay


----------



## Bunnie1978

Awesome tank, Niko! Beautiful and open.


----------



## Zapins

I like your photoshopped picture


----------



## Tex Gal

Niko- I think you may be over your fish limit! lol! (I may be seeing a reflection of each fish at least one time!)

So I understand the drop in pH but how do you know it's enough. If you had BBA so bad it makes me wonder about the CO2 level. You also have a lot of void area in the tank, so your water movement is basically unimpeded. I'm not quite sure this is a "fair" test.... It is a great little device - I will say!


----------



## niko

No, no, Drinda! There was no CO2 in the tank before. It has been running for about 4 days now.

As I said - I could care less about the good news a calibrated pH meter brings. If the plants don't grow they don't grow. Let's see.

--Nikolay


----------



## wearsbunnyslippers

this filter is on sale at petco for $7.47, shipping to south africa $40...

i have found this on ebay though, asking the seller if they will ship to sa...


----------



## sukhkawal

niko, im sorry im having a hard time believing that surface agiation increases co2 while externally adding it.

surface agiation introduces gas exchange which equilibrates the CO2 if none is being added.

on the other hand, if your adding co2 and have surface agiation, then it escapes.

heres some sources :
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/low-tech-forum/33106-surface-agitation.html

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...-discussions/66594-raising-oxygen-levels.html

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...ariums/15009-air-pump-air-stones-not-co2.html


----------



## demen45

This is a great little piece of work, thanks Niko...However, the propeller would fall out of the socket from time to time if I place the reactor horizontally...Anyone else has this issue?


----------



## niko

WearBunnySlippers,

You don't have to use that particular pump. You can use any powerhead and put a sponge over the outflow. It just so happened that this particular model is very small, black, and has a strainer that does not suck snails.

Sukhawal,

Surface agitation doesn't increase the CO2 in the aquarium. It provides for proper gas exchange. That doesn't mean that surface agitation pumps CO2 in the tank. It also allows for different kind of gasses to escape out of the water. Surface agitation removes CO2 from the water for sure. But no surface agitation often suppresses the plant growth. So what we need is a little surface agitation, but not too much so the CO2 that we inject goes away.

Apparently proper surface agitation is very important because often plants in tanks that have stagnant surface start growing when you introduce surface agitation.

Demen,

Keep in mind that this pump is an example of superior Chinese kraftmanship. I haven't had any issues with about 10 of these pumps. But it is entirely possible that the amazing Chinese Masters of Pump have produced a defective one.

Also - for $10 (or $7.47 on sale) I'd expect the pump to exibit excellent performance 24/7 for at least 45 years. 

--Nikolay


----------



## Tex Gal

niko said:


> Demen,
> 
> Keep in mind that this pump is an example of superior Chinese kraftmanship. I haven't had any issues with about 10 of these pumps. But it is entirely possible that the amazing Chinese Masters of Pump have produced a defective one.
> 
> Also - for $10 (or $7.47 on sale) I'd expect the pump to exibit excellent performance 24/7 for at least 45 years.
> 
> --Nikolay


LOL! I always get a chuckle from your posts.

I, like Demen, have also found a defective one. Mine is about 1.5 - 2 years old. I have been saving up to replace it.  I will have enough soon. The current sale may put me over the top! For now, I continue to reposition the impeller. Had it been a Nikolay designed and engineered, Prime Premium Peachy-Keen Proficient Pump, I'm sure I would have had no problems!


----------



## newguy

tag, sometimes a few pictures are worth 27 pages of text....



TarantulaGuy said:


> Niko! Bless you for this thread. I just set this up, and its working wonders. I love hearing the little "pish pish pish" of the bubbles hitting the intake too. Its the satisfying sound of plants making love everywhere :lol:. I didn't see pics in the last couple pages, so here are my dis-assembly pics for the curious. I ran the c02 intake through the lower intake screening instead of the adjustment dial slot, it was a better fit and I was working with stiffer tubing. Other than that, I'm assuming this is how everyone else did it.


----------



## TarantulaGuy

Hey hey, those look familiar. 3 months later and that little reactor is working like a charm, absolutely fantastic, I've helped numerous other people who come into my LFS set one up too, they all love it, and appreciate that its cheap.


----------



## niko

TarantulaGuy,

At this point I will have to ask you for some Royalty Fees.

I estimate them to be $0.25 USD.

Please send the money ASAP.

--Nikolay


----------



## TarantulaGuy

Heh niko, give me an addy to send it to, and its all yours!


----------



## niko

Considering the current state of affairs I'm willing to take less than $0.25.

How about $0.02. But you have to send them immediately.

--Nikolay


----------



## joraan

Niko! I have read from top to your last post..Always wanted to try this.....but never did...tho' few days back I got Elite mini.....

I was so annoyed by the chopping sound since I can easily hear high pitch noise...I took it down. 
one of the member here wrote he/she drilled the hole at the bottom and using air bubble tube he/she passed the co2 to the impeller.....I tried that one as well still better then before. Quickly thought of filling the empty space between co2 input to impeller with some poly fiber now no sound....and I 'm not really that impress with the result..

But wait Perhaps I am not doing this right.....
Where are you suppose to stick this reactor/filter....at the top, middle or at the lowest.....right now its in the middle at the back of the tank....plz Suggest.....


----------



## Riiz

joraan said:


> Niko! I have read from top to your last post..Always wanted to try this.....but never did...tho' few days back I got Elite mini.....
> 
> I was so annoyed by the chopping sound since I can easily hear high pitch noise...I took it down.
> one of the member here wrote he/she drilled the hole at the bottom and using air bubble tube he/she passed the co2 to the impeller.....I tried that one as well still better then before. Quickly thought of filling the empty space between co2 input to impeller with some poly fiber now no sound....and I 'm not really that impress with the result..
> 
> But wait Perhaps I am not doing this right.....
> Where are you suppose to stick this reactor/filter....at the top, middle or at the lowest.....right now its in the middle at the back of the tank....plz Suggest.....


I suggest putting it as low as possible, despite the sponge covering the outflow, a tiny stream of bubbles will still escape. It allows the gas to get a second chance to dissolve into the aquarium and if you have enough flow throughout the tank, it might pick them up and increase their contact time.

@Niko, thanks for this awesome thread. I originally built a reactor over a year ago, but never tried it until I was breaking down a 75gal tank, so I thought I'd experiment a bit. I've used inline reactors and canister intakes before, but you cant beat the simplistic and effective nature of the hagen elite mini. I had to decrease my bubble rate on the 75gal too. I now run them (Niko reactors) on two tanks, a 120 gallon, 4x2x2 footprint and a 75tall, 48x15x25, and in both instances they do the job just as well or better than an inline reactor powered by canister filter.


----------



## alexopolus

I have been using it for 2 months! works better than any other CO2 reactor that i have used (and cheap too! got it for $6 on clearence)


----------



## niko

Allright,

Time to open the windows and let some fresh air in.

Who would be the first to put this pump/CO2 reactor in an inline canister.

Could be like this one:
http://www.water-filter.co.za/clear.jpg

And yes the cord will have to find it's way out. Through this maybe:
http://www.bikudo.com/photo_stock/461957.jpg

And yes once again the CO2-tubing will also go through one of the above "liquid tight plugs".

Issues with the external positioning - harder to clean, must have clear housing ($$$) to see if it functions well.

--Nikolay


----------



## niko

Joraan,

2 things to reduce the noise:

A.
First off if the pump touches the glass the noise tends to spread much more. Even through suction cups. You may try to let the pump hang suspended. 

Another ultra clever approach - someone here I think stuck a 1/4" long piece of bamboo chopstick at the end of the CO2-tubing. Advantages - you end up with small CO2 bubbles that hit the impeller much softer. Disadvantages - grey bacteria slime grows on the bamboo the bamboo gets plugged up gradually and needs to be replaced every so often. You can try a wooden airstone (sold for saltwater skimmers), same issues with it though - there is something in the CO2 that these bacteria that form the grey slime like.

B.
There is a good reason why Amano keeps his pH at about 6.8. I'm going to go ahead, step back, an assume that 67K viewers of this thread are unaware why and are looking for crazy efficient ways to disolve more and more CO2. I'm not going to say why Amano likes pH of 6.8 because the reason is so simple that I might insult someobody's intelligence. But I'll say something else - the super-duper Chinese-Elite filter disolves more than enough CO2. I'm currently using it on a 180 gal. tank and the pH has dropped form 7 to 5.2.

My point is - if the noise really bothers you read up and learn how to run a planted tank propely with very little CO2. Don't be like all of us using stupid reactors to drive pH way down (look at mine - 5.2!) and deal with issues. Simply put - if your tank is setup right you will be able to do perfectly fine with a completely noise free sintered glass diffuser. Like Amano. Read my "Dummy Questions" here on APC if you care.

--Nikolay


----------



## newguy

funny you wrote that niko, i was just going to post the same. There is 1 major problem with this reactor - the noise. It is driving me insane, the constant, never ending click..click...click sound. 

I have the reactor surrounded with soft sponge and it didnt help much, not sure what else to do...

Other than that, i like this reactor a lot, it fits perfectly in one of the back chambers of my biocube, also helps pull water up from the lower intake grills. I dont see any co2 bubbles reaching the surface so dissolving rate should be close to 100%, just the noise...the constant never ending click click click!

The glass diffusers are never an option for me, they always get dirty after a while, not to mention blowing bubbles all over the tank destroying its "waterless" crystal clear look, also not that efficient.

Other power reactors are either too big, or i cant find a good way to secure the co2 tube properly.

The best option of course is the inline co2 reactor that uses counter-current for guaranteed 100% co2 absorption, not to mention completely silent and does not take up tank real estate. But that's not an option for me since I have a biocube and doesnt have a canister filter. 

Anyway long story short (i know too late!), still using the elite diy reactor as it is the best option for me, but the noise is really annoying.


----------



## Riiz

The clicking goes away with an airstone, or a loud fan on a light fixture, hehe.


----------



## bosmahe1

Riiz said:


> The clicking goes away with an airstone, or a loud fan on a light fixture, hehe.


Turn up the volume on the TV.


----------



## niko

This is the end of this thread.

The reactor is too loud. It can't be used in a room smaller than 10 000 sq. ft. You will go deaf or even worst.

Please do not try to see if it's loud indeed. It's horribly loud. Bad for your health. Some of the sound waves approach 7 Hz (or whatever the number is - the frequency that kills you right away).

As an alternative try this, it's beautiful, efficient, and completely quiet:
http://www.youtube.com/user/tacomanoffice1423#p/a/u/1/a1VvvzGvPJ4

--Nikolay


----------



## joraan

niko said:


> This is the end of this thread.
> 
> The reactor is too loud. It can't be used in a room smaller than 10 000 sq. ft. You will go deaf or even worst.
> 
> Please do not try to see if it's loud indeed. It's horribly loud. Bad for your health. Some of the sound waves approach 7 Hz (or whatever the number is - the frequency that kills you right away).
> 
> As an alternative try this, it's beautiful, efficient, and completely quiet:
> http://www.youtube.com/user/tacomanoffice1423#p/a/u/1/a1VvvzGvPJ4
> 
> --Nikolay


Nikolay, don't close this Thread...this is a very helpful post for all the new comers and for those who haven't tried this method yet...The Reactor is not loud if you play around... I did all the methods...but the best method I found to cut the chopping noise is Instead of removing "the green flow control slider" Let it stay there where it is originally. Right below the Slider drill the hole that fits co2 tubing and there you go No noise at all... Concluding this after trying in 3 different Filter/Reactor!


----------



## Bunnie1978

It isn't that loud! I used it happily for quite some time. As with any other filter, make sure your impeller is clean!


----------



## TakeFlight

I just set up DIY CO2 last week on my new planted Solana 25 gallon tank. For those that aren't aware of this tank, it has a hidden compartment in the rear that houses all the filtration and an area for a protein skimmer (for salt water setups) and heater. I had been using the pump that comes as part of the protein skimmer to inject CO2. This pump basically was working under the same concept of this Hagen CO2 diffuser. The CO2 gets mashed by the blades in the pump and turn into tiny microbubbles. The problem is that the location of this pump in the Solana is probably less than ideal being in the first chamber of the filtration system, meaining the dissolved CO2 has to pass over the filter pad in the second chamber before getting to the third chamber where the filtration pump is. I could have moved this pump to the main tank instead of the filtration section in the back but I didn't want to see it in the tank. So, that's when I came across this message thread. The Elite Mini is a little smaller than the pump I had been using and is easier to hide. So, I stopped by my local Petco last night and got the second to last one they had. I had it running over night last night and my pH went from 7.8 to 7.0. Granted, 7.0 is the lowest reading I had gotten with the other pump I was using as well. It's amazing to me the pH was up to 7.8 after a few hours of the CO2 not being injected (while I worked in the tank to rearrange things). So far I can't say the Elite Mini is working better than the other method but maybe I need to give it a little more time? I know it's at least working just as well. I just really thought it would work much better moving it into the main tank instead of back in the filtration section.

One idea I had was to put it in the third chamber of the filtration section right next to the filtration pump so that the microbubbles would be sucked into the filtration pump and sent out into the main tank. That would accomplish good spread of the bubbles to the main tank (with further dissolving likely happening in the filtration pump) as well as being a place to hide the Elite Mini out of sight.

This is what the Solana looks like from the back. The idea is to put the Elite Mini CO2 diffuser in the last/third chamber on the left (where the number 2 is in the picture). Any thoughts?

*UPDATE:* I attempted to put the Elite Mini in the third chamber where the filtration pump is but it's a really tight fit and I didn't like that I would have to essentially put the filtration pump on top of the Elite Mini. So, I scratched that idea and put it back in the main tank. I guess I will get used to the idea of having some hardware in the tank. I really was trying to keep everything concealed in the back of the Solana.

Back view










Front view










Oh, and by the way, I agree it is not loud. The pump I had been using made a much louder sound. I have to put my ear up to the glass of the tank to hear the Elite Mini mash the CO2.


----------



## TakeFlight

TakeFlight said:


> I just set up DIY CO2 last week on my new planted Solana 25 gallon tank.
> 
> *UPDATE:* I attempted to put the Elite Mini in the third chamber where the filtration pump is but it's a really tight fit and I didn't like that I would have to essentially put the filtration pump on top of the Elite Mini. So, I scratched that idea and put it back in the main tank. I guess I will get used to the idea of having some hardware in the tank. I really was trying to keep everything concealed in the back of the Solana.


*UPDATE 2:* I checked the pH this morning and it was down to 6.8. That's the lowest reading yet since setting up DIY CO2 last week. I know the CO2 output of the yeast mix is not consistent therefore readings can fluctuate so I'll have to keep testing it and see if it consistently stays that low. The KH is 6 or 7 (depending on how you define bright yellow with the API KH test) so the CO2 should be somewhere between 28 and 33 ppm. Even if I go with KH at 5 (which is where the solution "just" started to turn yellow) the CO2 should be at least 23 ppm. So, I'm pretty satisfied with the results I'm getting. Now the question is how long does the CO2 production last. I'm using two 1.9L gatorade bottles with T connection into a 20oz bubble counter. I started the second bottle only a day after the first one but I plan to prematurely replace the first bottle sometime in the next few days to get my offset going. This will work out assuming I get 3-4 weeks production out of each of these bottles (replacing one bottle every 1.5-2 weeks).

Thanks Niko for this really cheap and simple CO2 diffuser idea!


----------



## PIT1981

I heard about this reactor from T Money $$ and man it does a great job. You could spend $50.00 or more on reactors on the internet and they wouldn't come close to the job this one has done. I have a 60 gallon tank and I'm running just 1 reactor off a two 2 liter setup, I've see significant growth in all my stem plants. I would recommend to everyone thats running DIY CO2, if not for you main reactor just a backup.
THANKS NIKO


----------



## niko

Allright,

Here's some news from me:

1. As I said above - I'm running one of these reactors in a 180 gallon tank:





The reactor does a great job lowering the pH with at least 1 point. I don't trust my pH meter for exact values but it definitely shows a drop of 0.8 - 1.0 when the reactor is running.

2. BBA grew on the sponge itself. I guess that speaks against the notion that increased CO2 prevents BBA.
The CO2 injection rate is fast because the tank is big. With that CO2 rate the reactor is making a cloud of tiny bubbles - measuring 3/4 ft. tall and about 8 in. wide. BBA does not care and grows on the sponge.

So I removed the sponge and let the reactor shoot bubbles under the Bolbitis bush. Also I put the CO2 on a timer. Now it turns on 1 hour before my lights come on. It shuts off 1 hour before the lights shut off. Guess what - the pH still drops about 0.6 - 0.7!

So it definitely 1 (one) of these reactors if fine in a 160-180 gallons tank with soft water (4-5 hardness). Even if you turn the CO2 at night.

--Nikolay


----------



## Alexpatrascu

Wow, I love your aquascaping buddy...nice....


----------



## g33tar

Can someone explain to me what a 'needle wheel' is....and if any of you have done it....

And what has it done? Make the bubbles even finer?

ANOTHER QUESTION - What do I do with this venturi bulb thing that comes on the end of a 7" piece of tubing? Should I still attach it to the little hole on the output for it? What is it supposed to do?

Thanks guys.


----------



## AquaX

g33tar said:


> Can someone explain to me what a 'needle wheel' is....and if any of you have done it....
> 
> And what has it done? Make the bubbles even finer?


Click me. 



g33tar said:


> ANOTHER QUESTION - What do I do with this venturi bulb thing that comes on the end of a 7" piece of tubing? Should I still attach it to the little hole on the output for it? What is it supposed to do?
> 
> Thanks guys.


No, if you find things getting sucked or stuck in there, snip a small piece off the airline tubing and melt the one end closed and then pop it over the venturi. You could also just melt close the venturi as someone mentioned, but I'm pretty sure that would void the warranty. That little bulb thing as you say is called a valve and used to control air flow.


----------



## g33tar

Thanks so much for that link...that was exactly what I was trying to find last nite. Appreciate it.


----------



## citadel

Anyone have trouble running a lower BPS rate with this reactor? I basically have to have the bubble counter rate at full blast to maintain 30ppm/ light green in drop checker.
I would say I have about 20 bps going..... thoughts?


----------



## J-P

I had my diffuser pooched the other day (not sure why) and I had one ofhtese little units as a spare ... it works like a charm!

I really did want to buy another diffuser.

Thank you very much for this thread!


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## jschall

I ordered 2 from petco at amazon (cheaper shipping from petco's amazon storefront than from petco's website!)
I also ordered 2 packages of the extra foams. So, I left the filters stock (although I did take off the venturi tube) and added extra the foam onto the outlet. There's already a hole in the foam, I just stretched it over the outlet nozzle.
I left the foam inside the filter in and put my CO2 hose below the filter. The CO2 bubbles into the filter, collects on the filter foam, bubbles up into the top of the filter chamber, and eventually gets into the impeller. After it gets into the impeller, it gets chopped up and launched into the second foam and sits there until it is dissolved.

I'm worried that this might be way TOO efficient for my 10 gallon tank. I'm just using DIY CO2, 1 liter, 1/3 tsp yeast. Am I going to kill my shrimp?


----------



## barakainus

I design this reactor and now I discovered that "my" design is years old  Oh well, I should read this DIY section from the beginning to the end


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## inghamb87

Hey thanks niko! Does anyone have a picture? Would be awesome to see it in action or hey may be even a video


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## jschall

Will snap one.


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## niko

inghamb87 said:


> Hey thanks niko! Does anyone have a picture? Would be awesome to see it in action or hey may be even a video


Search this thread - there are pictures and videos too.

--Nikolay


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## jschall

Black tubing is my CO2 going in. The tubing is suction cupped to the glass right below the filter, so it just bubbles into the intake. Notice the bubbles on the outlet.


----------



## leedavis

Nice project you have there. I am thinking of doing it next week.. Wish me luck.


----------



## kcrossley

newguy said:


> funny you wrote that niko, i was just going to post the same. There is 1 major problem with this reactor - the noise. It is driving me insane, the constant, never ending click..click...click sound.
> 
> I have the reactor surrounded with soft sponge and it didnt help much, not sure what else to do...
> 
> Other than that, i like this reactor a lot, it fits perfectly in one of the back chambers of my biocube, also helps pull water up from the lower intake grills. I dont see any co2 bubbles reaching the surface so dissolving rate should be close to 100%, just the noise...the constant never ending click click click!
> 
> The glass diffusers are never an option for me, they always get dirty after a while, not to mention blowing bubbles all over the tank destroying its "waterless" crystal clear look, also not that efficient.
> 
> Other power reactors are either too big, or i cant find a good way to secure the co2 tube properly.
> 
> The best option of course is the inline co2 reactor that uses counter-current for guaranteed 100% co2 absorption, not to mention completely silent and does not take up tank real estate. But that's not an option for me since I have a biocube and doesnt have a canister filter.
> 
> Anyway long story short (i know too late!), still using the elite diy reactor as it is the best option for me, but the noise is really annoying.


I also have a 29-gallon Biocube and I'm thinking about trying Niko's reactor design. Currently, my tank is plagued with thousands of microbubbles that are ruining the clarity of the tank. Not sure if all of these are from the CO2 ceramic diffuser or a combination of the diffuser and plant pearling.

One question though. How exactly do you reduce the noise newguy is talking about? I understand an airstone is involved, but where does it go and does it negatively impact the reactor's performance?


----------



## kcrossley

What stops the CO2 from escaping through the Elite Mini vents once the foam is removed and placed on the end of the venturi?


----------



## Big_Fish

kcrossley said:


> What stops the CO2 from escaping through the Elite Mini vents once the foam is removed and placed on the end of the venturi?



the vents are INTAKE vents.... Co2 won't escape through those, water is flowing INTO those vents. (just to clarify, the foam is placed completely over the outlet... the venturi hole is not used/can be plugged.)

for making it more quiet, I THINK the idea is to put a small airstone/pre diffuser at the end of the co2 line... to make it so lots of smaller bubbles hit the impeller rather than one big bubble.... 
I can not speak from experience whether or not that works however... (the bubble noise doesn't bother me one bit, your mileage may vary  )


----------



## kcrossley

Thanks for clarifying Big_Fish. I'm going to build it tonight and try the airstone option. I'll post my results later.


----------



## Big_Fish

one other item, I KNOW it's in this thread somewhere... you'll probably want to leave the flow regulator where it is. instead cut out ONE vent and put the co2 tube through the now slightly larger vent hole... trying to squeeze the co2 tube through the small slot left by removing the flow regulator tends to squish the tube a bit much. Good Luck!! I'm VERY happy with mine.


----------



## kcrossley

Yep, that's exactly what I was going to do. The plastic housing hole will also help secure the airstone to the CO2 tubing. BTW, what's the purpose of the foam?


----------



## kcrossley

Also, what's the difference between CO2 tubing and air pump tubing? I saw some black air pump tubing the other day in my LFS and I'd prefer to use that.


----------



## Big_Fish

kcrossley said:


> Yep, that's exactly what I was going to do. The plastic housing hole will also help secure the airstone to the CO2 tubing. BTW, what's the purpose of the foam?


that causes the (already very tiny) bubbles coming out of the filter to stay in contact with the water longer/ make those tiny bubbles even smaller. I've seen some in this thread don't use it at all, I still do.
(incidentally, the sponge/ foam already has a hole cut into it... just stretch it over the outlet and it stays well in place.)


----------



## Big_Fish

kcrossley said:


> Also, what's the difference between CO2 tubing and air pump tubing? I saw some black air pump tubing the other day in my LFS and I'd prefer to use that.


airline tube (vinyl) doesn't hold up as well over time to the acid created by producing CO2 (this is the acid that causes the PH to drop when using Co2.) also (to some degree) the co2 is able to escape through the walls of the tubing... sort of the way a helium balloon will deflate much quicker than one filled with air.

Borrowed the following from another forum:
http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/techinfo.asp?htmlfile=SelectingTubing.htm

CO2 permeability (cc.mm/cm2.sec.mmHg) x 10^-10) (lower number = better)
FEP @5.9
PTFE @ 6.8
PVC @ 6.8
Nylon @ 20
Viton @ 79
Polypropylene @ 90
Tygon Fuel @ 100
Polyethylene @ 280
Tygon Lab @ 360
*Vinyl @ 360*
Polyurethane (clear and aqua-tint) @ 395
Norprene @ 1200
Gum Rubber @ 1311
Tygon Pressure @ 2700
Tygon Ultra-chem resistant @ 4840
Silicone @ 20,132

(btw, you can typically get polyethylene or polypropylene at hardware store/ HD/Lowes...)


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## niko

Also remember that the price of 10 lbs. of CO2 is about $15. 

Consider that when thinking in terms of (cc.mm/cm2.sec.mmHg) x 10^-10).

--Nikolay


----------



## kcrossley

Big_Fish said:


> airline tube (vinyl) doesn't hold up as well over time to the acid created by producing CO2 (this is the acid that causes the PH to drop when using Co2.) also (to some degree) the co2 is able to escape through the walls of the tubing... sort of the way a helium balloon will deflate much quicker than one filled with air.
> 
> Borrowed the following from another forum:
> http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/techinfo.asp?htmlfile=SelectingTubing.htm
> 
> CO2 permeability (cc.mm/cm2.sec.mmHg) x 10^-10) (lower number = better)
> FEP @5.9
> PTFE @ 6.8
> PVC @ 6.8
> Nylon @ 20
> Viton @ 79
> Polypropylene @ 90
> Tygon Fuel @ 100
> Polyethylene @ 280
> Tygon Lab @ 360
> *Vinyl @ 360*
> Polyurethane (clear and aqua-tint) @ 395
> Norprene @ 1200
> Gum Rubber @ 1311
> Tygon Pressure @ 2700
> Tygon Ultra-chem resistant @ 4840
> Silicone @ 20,132
> 
> (btw, you can typically get polyethylene or polypropylene at hardware store/ HD/Lowes...)


So, what is CO2 tubing made out of? Also, are you suppose to put the foam over the adjustable output diverter?


----------



## default user

Has anyone tried this on larger tanks? I have a 55 gallon and was thinking about trying this.


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## tbonedeluxe

Yep. I have one setup on my 55g with one 2 liter bottle.I use an hob filter with a second 2 liter bottle.


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## default user

tbonedeluxe said:


> Yep. I have one setup on my 55g with one 2 liter bottle.I use an hob filter with a second 2 liter bottle.


Does it only "work" with DIY? I was going to use it with my non-DIY CO2


----------



## Kaws

I just set this up earlier today and it's "shooting" CO2 once every 3 seconds. Is this good? Or should I be getting more?
This is the recipe I used:
2 Cups of Sugar
1/2 teaspoon of yeast
1/4 teaspoon of baking powder


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## niko

I guess a million pages in a thread makes people read just the last post and go from there.

Yes, the cheap contraption is good for larger tanks too. I have it in a 180 gal. tank and it works just fine. Lowers the pH at least 0.5 units in an hour or so.

Works fine in a 55 and a 75.

Use it with pressurized or yeast CO2.

Nothing much more to say - the thing works and for $10 you can't find a more efficient reactor.

--Nikolay


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## jschall

Kaws said:


> I just set this up earlier today and it's "shooting" CO2 once every 3 seconds. Is this good? Or should I be getting more?
> This is the recipe I used:
> 2 Cups of Sugar
> 1/2 teaspoon of yeast
> 1/4 teaspoon of baking powder


Only way you can know for sure is get a drop checker.

How big is your tank?


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## Kaws

jschall said:


> Only way you can know for sure is get a drop checker.
> 
> How big is your tank?


It's a 29g.


----------



## jschall

Kaws said:


> It's a 29g.


I'd say as long as you've got good flow in the tank and not too much surface agitation you're probably fine.

You could do a before/after check of the pH to get a rough idea. The more it drops, the more CO2 you have.


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## Big_Fish

Kaws said:


> It's a 29g.


that's what I've got my DIY rig in..... I'm getting almost 2 bubbles per second.
it DOES take a good 24 hours for the yeast colonies to get big enough to produce that amount of Co2.
(I'm also using two 2 litre bottles in the same 29 gal tank) 
don't rush it... probably the biggest issue I've encountered has been simple impatience


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## Kaws

It's been more than 24 hours and it's still the same. Maybe it's the yeast, I used Hodgson Mill active dry yeast.
And I'm only using one 1.89L bottle, I guess I have to add another.


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## Big_Fish

the yeast should be OK.... that stuff either works (and multiplies like mad) or it doesn't do a thing... if it's dead/old... 
I'd suggest 2 bottles twice the co2... 
you MAY also want to try some Winemakers yeast... alcohol doesn't kill it as quickly as bread yeast... if you have a local supply, great... 
otherwise http://www.midwestsupplies.com/red-star-wine-yeasts-5-grams-premier-cuvee.html is a good one.


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## Kaws

I'm noticing that it's releasing a lot less than it was yesterday. It's still at a "shot" every 3 seconds but with less tiny bubbles.
I made the DIY CO2 two days ago.
Then set it up with this reactor yesterday.
So after about 48 hours the DIY CO2 is producing a lot less CO2, any ideas on what the problem is?


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## niko

DIY yeast CO2 is like that.

It could last for 2 weeks or it can fizz out in one day.

No need to look for an explanation. Just experiment with different kinds of yeast.

--Nikolay


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## kilfrg7864

will this be overkill for a 6 gallon tank? Mind you it is a eclipse 6 system, that has a bio wheel, as well as it kind of waterfalls into the area with the filter.


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## huaidan

Yeast need nutrient. A tablespoon or two per bottle of yeast extract, vegemite, powdered milk or soybean, egg white, or basically anything readily soluble that contains protein, phosphate, and vitamin c. I heat kill yeast in lemon juice then freeze to make my yeast nutrient.

If you don't give your yeast nutrients beyond sugar, then they won't have the resources to multiply and colonize vigorously. Sometimes, this will result in fermentation starting then fading quickly, a stuck fermentation as they call it in brewing.

Also, I strongly second the recommendation for wine yeast. Nothing beats it for longevity and productivity.


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## niko

Ok, stop the press!

For all seekers of cheap deals I'd like to warn you - this Elite internal filter is indeed (you guessed it!) CHEAP! On the other hand I've used about 20 of these pumps in the last few years and only 2 have had issues - this one and one that just stopped working.

The other day I stuck my hand in the water of my big tank and I felt a small electric buzz. It was nothing much but definitely worried me. 

I've felt the same thing when the water got electrified by powerful Power Compact lights. The tank with the Power Compacts had an electric field around it that made the TDS meter shoot up to crazy numbers if placed close to the tank. The electric field was messing up the TDS reading inside the tank, outside the tank (about 3/4 ft. away) and also around the external filter. The light was grounded and did not touch the water in any way. Turning the lights off resulted in an immediate normalization of the TDS reading. Also when you touched the water you got a tiny electric shock - felt only where your skin was broken, around fingernails etc. It felt like weak acid on a skin wound or something like that - very small, tingling, feeling.

So! My Elite pump did the same thing - it shocked me slightly. Be aware of that experience.

I removed it immediately and hooked up the CO2 line to the internal pump that runs my spraybar. Now there are CO2 bubbles in every single area of the tank. The Bolbitis apparently loves it. I will see if I will stay with such a setup - the tiny bubbles will probably prove to be annoying to look at after a while.

That experience made me think - the Elite pump certainly is a compact, cheap, and exremely efficient way to break up CO2 bubbles. But with the same bubble rate I'm able to completely saturate the body of water with CO2 bubbles if the CO2 is run through the spraybar. Oxygen bubbles are way up too.

--Nikolay


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## Bunnie1978

That's what I ended up doing with my display 75g. I run the CO2 into the intake tube of my magnum 350. Since the motor is on the bottom there is no danger from gas build up. I have 100% dissolution this way andthe water is dispersed through a custom spraybar that runs along the bottom of the tank.
In my 29g display however, I still have the mini-elite. I run about 1 bubble per 2 or 3 seconds (the Azoo regulator is not very consistant) and barely see any bubbles.


----------



## SirKappa

Has anyone used one of these on a 2.5g? I am thinking of using one of these Hagen Elite Mini on my 2.5 as the CO2 diffuser and for filtration/circulation.

I am almost wondering if the CO2 levels will get too high.


----------



## Newt

Do you think the Ellite filter idea is a better option than a RedSea 500 CO2 reactor?
I find I need to tweak it at least weekly.


----------



## BobinCA1946

My attention was drawn to this thread by a fellow Forum member who made me "aware" of it.
She knew that I was looking for a different/more effective method of diffusing CO2 into my 125 gal. of water. My tank is 4'x2'x2'. And, it is an overflow to a sump down below. 125 gal takes into account the vol. of H2O in the sump. I was using an old reactor type of diffuser fed by a powerhead both located in the sump itself with the water drawn up by an old Eheim 1060 water pump. Utilizing compressed CO2, I was still getting BBA.....a lot of it! And I was going thru a 20 lb tank every 2 mos.
And....no leaks in the CO2 line. 
Has Niko solved my problem of getting CO2 directly into the water where it counts, directly into the tank itself? I am trying this Elite filter method and am counting about 2-3 bubbles per sec. Its a heck of a lot better than my old method where I was using a "solid" continuous stream of CO2 with no discernible way to count bubbles.
Niko....will 1 of these diffusers of yours be able to dissolve enough CO2 into the size/volume of tank that I have and stop this infernal BBA?? (and, of course, be enough to promote excellent plant growth too?).
I have the Elite filter/sponge unit located at the far left end of the tank, at the bottom, with the cloud of microbubbles rising up and running into the flow of current generated from a Koralia 2 located directly above the mini filter/diffuser. I do not think the mist of bubbles are reaching the other end of the tank. Any suggestions as to my setup? 
Regards,
Bob


----------



## Big_Fish

BobinCA1946 ... I removed the sponge completely, (I believe Niko and many others have also) ... as I noticed the sponge wasn't diffusing any better.... rather, the sponge seemed to allow the bubbles to re-join.. :-/ counter-productive.

after losing the sponge, the microbubbles (for lack of a better term)
are dispersed much more uniformly across the entire tank.

Hope that helps!


----------



## Izzy

BobinCA1946 - I suspect the overflow is causing a rapid degassing of the co2. Surface movement is counter productive. Best to use a drop checker to see if any co2 is in you water column. Others may be able to confirm my thoughts as I haven't any actual experience with an overflow system.


----------



## niko

There is a beautiful notion that once you get the CO2 as high as you can the BBA will magically disappear. That's not exactly true.

BBA likes organics. Invisible, disolved in the water organics. Organics that seep from the substrate. Organics from soft and beautiful pieces of wood that we can't remove from our tanks.

As I said above - the Elite filter is enough to lower the pH in my 180 gal. tank. How much? Read my earlier post where I talk about the pH in numbers. It's a lot! And I don't run it but a few hours a day. I do have BBA too.

I thrashed the electrically challenged Elite and just stuck the CO2 line in the suction of a 700 gph pump with a spray bar that I have shooting water along the back of the 6' tank. The tiny CO2 bubbles are EVERYWHERE. They flow down by the back glass, then along the bottom and up - covering the entire body of water. There is no sq. inch of that tank that doesn't have CO2 bubbles. It has been 3 weeks with that setup. BBA is slowly coming back. Read the beginning of my post... 

I also developed the best looking Staghorn algae someone has ever had. It has to be a mass 1 ft tall and about 4 ft. long and it pearls beautifully. Apparently elevated CO2 doesn't kill Staghorn either. Before that I had nicely developing Cladophora but it died off in 2 days for no apparent reason and the Staghorn took over. The Bolbitis got poisoned with Excel I guess - it pearls but wouldn't grow with frequent water changes (every 3-rd day) and good amount of all fertilizers. I don't know what I'm doing in this hobby but I'm not worried about saying it. 

Bobin,
With a sump, generally, you are loosing all the CO2 you pump. You need to really crank up the CO2 bubble rate or find a way for the water to not "rain" in the sump. Basically you will be converting the sump wet/dry filtration to just wet. I've done it before, but still the CO2 supply had to be quite high. 

--Nikolay


----------



## BobinCA1946

niko said:


> With a sump, generally, you are loosing all the CO2 you pump. You need to really crank up the CO2 bubble rate or find a way for the water to not "rain" in the sump. Basically you will be converting the sump wet/dry filtration to just wet. I've done it before, but still the CO2 supply had to be quite high.
> 
> --Nikolay


Niko,
I remember (altho vaguely) Tom Barr making comments that if you seal up the wet side of the sump then the off-gassed CO2 has no where to go but back into the water. This water then returns to the tank with a saturation of CO2. I think Barr was "debunking" as an old wives tale the so-called off gassing probs of an overflow to sump system.

And your comments regarding the CO2/BBA relationship are, to say the least, discouraging. I was under the impression that CO2 would prevent BBA growth. I will tinker with my new Hagen apparatus and observe to see if my results will be the same as yours.
Regards,
Bob


----------



## jart

To Bob in CA: I couldn't find a lot of information about using the Elite on larger tanks, so I set my 72 gallon up with two of them. I bought a manifold and two needle valves from Rex Grigg. It seems to be working well at this point. With a tank as large as yours, you may want to consider more than one.

Edit: Although, on page 30, Niko claims that one unit will indeed work on larger tanks. I just wanted to make sure I had enough dispersion.


----------



## BobinCA1946

jart said:


> To Bob in CA: I couldn't find a lot of information about using the Elite on larger tanks, so I set my 72 gallon up with two of them. I bought a manifold and two needle valves from Rex Grigg. It seems to be working well at this point. With a tank as large as yours, you may want to consider more than one.
> 
> Edit: Although, on page 30, Niko claims that one unit will indeed work on larger tanks. I just wanted to make sure I had enough dispersion.


Jart,
Are you using a drop checker to check the effectiveness of using the two Elite's?
I would be interested in knowing how well the two work in your tank.
Regards,
Bob


----------



## jart

No I am not. Since I don't get the same drop in pH with misting as I did with my previous external reactor (1 full degree) I doubt that the drop checker would tell me that I have an "ideal" concentration. But is this necessary with misting? Quite a bit of the delivered CO2 is not in solution, therefore, perhaps DCs aren't as useful in a tank with misting. What are your/ others' thoughts?

Here is a thread over at TPT that discusses this issue:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/f.../96630-might-target-level-co2-lower-tank.html

Regards.


----------



## Pickled_Herring

Wow I just wanted to thank Niko for such a great idea. I was lucky that my local Petco had the Elite filters on sale. I was running CO2 for about a week, with a glass and ceramic diffuser, and my drop checker hadn't budged a bit. I saw immediate results once I connected the Elite and I have cut back on the amount of CO2 I was bubbling.

Regards
Larry


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## Tex Gal

Niko, this is the thread that keeps on giving!


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## snowball2020

has anyone able to find the filter at a Petco? I was at the store yesterday and they don't carry them anymore... this thread is so old that they discontinue the product! I still see it online though, but shipping cost more than the filter... total is $18 shipped!


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## Tex Gal

Sometimes you can get it online for free shipping when they run a sale. Even at $18 it's the cheapest CO2 diffuser ever!


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## fishyjoe24

what about try other places beside petco. what about petsmart, pet land,pet-o-rama, or pet supplies plus?


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## tug

:hail: The fact that it is so cheap makes this a great modification, but it is possible to do the same thing with just about any powerhead. What about trying another brand of powerhead? For example, a more expensive, effective modification can be made using a Duetto multifilter. But, most any powerhead can be modified using a needlewheel technique to help break up the CO2.


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## fishyjoe24

HI duc.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=where+in+the+dfw+texas+area+can+I+buy+a+hagen+mini+elite+filter


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## virgo888

petco always have them online. it's good to have a spare.


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## tom855

*What type airstone?*

I've tried two brands of airstones in my diffusor and both of them make CO2 bubbles large enough to make a chopping noise very similar to having no airstone. Is there a brand of airstone out there that makes really fine bubbles to start with instead of big bubbles?

I've tried the white ones from Lees, and the blue ones from Aqua Culture that WalMart sells. There must be something out there with smaller bubbles.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Tom

.


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi tom855,

Kordon Mist Air, either medium or fine, they are made from glass beads not sand or wood. Hard to find, I had to ask a LFS to order them for me....about $2.50 each.


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## drunkenmastera

amazon has it for $13 shipped:
http://www.amazon.com/Elite-Underwa...1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1287597520&sr=8-1


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## jasonak

Ive alwasy used wood airstones in my cheap skimmers they make very tiny bubbles,problem is they clog fast.But you can find them at the LFS and there not to pricy.


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## JEden8

Am I the only one that is unable to view the pictures on Page 2? I currently have been using the Hagen Mini Elite for my DIY CO2 diffuser but just have my CO2 line going into the intake valve on the sprayer. I am curious as to what the major difference is between what I am doing and what is explained as in Page 2. If there is a problem with the pics can we fix it or can someone send me a PM to have these pics emailed to me so that I can view them. Thanks!


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi JEden8,

Sorry, I just checked an there no longer appear to be links for pictures in the post.


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## JEden8

Here's a question for everyone out there using this. Where in your tank do you put this? Right now I have mine about 3-4 inches under on the back right side. I'm trying to grow carpet plants as well but they are in the middle left side. Should I put this down there closer or leave it where it is at?


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi JEden8,

When I used mine, I tried to place it where the bubbles and CO2 enriched water were circulated throughout the tank.


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## AquaHokie

Got a few PMs about the pictures on page 2. I couldn't edit my original post on page 2 so I've reposted it below with the pictures. BTW, the elite mini I set up in my original post is still in use to this day and still works great!

I was at my local Petco and they had an Elite Mini (they only had one left too) so I thought I would give it a shot as a co2 reactor after reading about it here. See pics below!

Elite Mini box









The box contains the filter, flow nozzle, and tube with a venturi aerator.









Water flows in from the bottom of the filter and exits from the hole below. The green tab is the flow control slider.









Take the filter apart and remove the filter sponge as well as the green flow control slider.









Place the flow nozzle into the filter sponge.









Put the filter back together. The hole where the flow control slider was is where your co2 tube goes.









Put the filter sponge nozzle on the filter and your co2 tube in the flow control slider hole.









Place the filter in your tank, plug it in, watch the bubbles fly and the plants pearl!









Overall, the reactor works great in my 56 gallon tank. I placed the filter behind some driftwood in my tank so its out of sight. The output from my canister filter is right above it to help push any bubbles that reach the surface around the tank. The first full day it was hooked up my pH dropped from 7.4 to 7 and could've dropped more had I increased the bubble count. I'm impressed with how tiny the bubbles are when they come out of the reactor and my plants have been pearling like crazy. As other posters mentioned earlier, the reactor does make some noise as co2 passes through the filter. For me, the fans on the lights of my tank are much louder than the noise the reactor makes, so I don't hear anything unless I'm right next to the tank. The filter itself cost me about $10 so its great for someone on a budget. Thanks for the great idea!


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## jerrybforl

I might have to give this a try in my 29gallon


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## niko

Woo-hoo! This thread will never die!

Or rather it will - when stingy people disappear. That would be about the same time when the ultimate tool (a hammer) cannot find an application any more, haha!

Joking aside I have to say that I have an interesting observation about this diffuser. It's about algae and it's simple: BBA and Cladophora happily develop on the top side of the sponge. Not every time of course, but I've seen in about 3 times now. So much about fighting algae with high CO2.

Other than that - I've had one of these diffusers in a heavily planted 55 gallon tank working for more than 2 years now. No cleaning, no maintenance. 

--Nikolay


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## goldfishes

niko said:


> With a sponge on the outflow the performance is actually MUCH better. If you get too many bubbles coming out of the sponge then you are injecting too many bubbles and the pump/sponge combination doesn't have enough time to disolve them all so some get expelled.
> 
> One if these reactors is enough for a 75 gal. tank with tons of light with a bubble rate of about 2 bubbles per second.
> 
> Without a sponge the tiny bubbles fly everywhere and make the water look not completely clear. Plus a lot of them get wasted. If you add a sponge in front of the same pump you will need to reduce the CO2 bubble rate about 30 to 50%. Impressive savings.
> 
> --Nikolay


This is so true! I just put on the sponge and had to turn down the co2 by half because the drop checker turned yellow in a few hours and the fish were gasping. This has to be the best diy ever for co2 diffusion. Thanks again for posting this.


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## JEden8

I just recently switched my filter to the outside and it's a huge difference! I can't believe what I was missing when I first purchased this. Can't wait to hook up my pressurized CO2 setup tomorrow when I get my On/Off Valve!


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## aquyenl

does this work with diy co2 and do they still sell the mini elite hagen at petco? shipping on the site costs as much as the filter itself!!


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## Abe

aquyenl said:


> does this work with diy co2 and do they still sell the mini elite hagen at petco? shipping on the site costs as much as the filter itself!!


I was just chatting with a PETCO rep about the shipping, they said "but the item has been discounted already.." and "yes, the shipping cost has been decided upon the product itself." Luckily, I found where they carry it within a couple miles of my zip. I'd still like to know if this would work with a DIY contraption, although even with check valves, it seems the filter could 'suck' the mixture into the tank. I'm a newb though, admittedly.


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## niko

Yes! This works with DIY CO2 reactors - self-made or store-bought!

You will save a bunch if you never buy a pressurized CO2 bottle!

I save even more by just blowing into the tubing and disolving the CO2 with my ingenious reactor. So far I've saved like $20 for just one year! Takes me only 7-8 hours every day!

I got so used to blow air for hours on end that I started to make very cheap furniture too. Here's a chair I made. The two paper bags cost only $0.99 each!










--Nikolay


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## aquyenl

Abe said:


> I was just chatting with a PETCO rep about the shipping, they said "but the item has been discounted already.." and "yes, the shipping cost has been decided upon the product itself." Luckily, I found where they carry it within a couple miles of my zip. I'd still like to know if this would work with a DIY contraption, although even with check valves, it seems the filter could 'suck' the mixture into the tank. I'm a newb though, admittedly.


yea i decided to go ahead and buy it on amazon for $12.59. time to test this thing out!


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## ireland

has anyone tried just running the co2 line into the venturi? thats how i have mine set up and the bubbles it produce compare to the ones on youtube are considerably smaller and doesnt float straight up right away (though it is not a cloud/mist of bubbles). Im thinking about getting another one for another tank and run it the way everyone is doing it (co2 into the intake then to the propeller) to see if there is a significant difference


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## bsnyder921

Hi everyone - I tried this out and it seems to work so far. I posted a video of the entire process. Enjoy!


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## klink67

I just run my tubing into the middle of a giant sponge in my sump which does an excellent job at diffusion the co2


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## H2OAggie

This is awesome at diffusing CO2 in my 29 gallon. Instead of placing the sponge on the outside of the flow nozzle, I left the majority inside and cut a small enough piece to fit inside the nozzle, between the impeller and output. This was done because I wanted to maintain some of the flow created by the filter, as I am currently using just a HOB. It is not as efficient, but it is now performing 3 duties for me as a filter, CO2 diffuser and mini-power head. Great DIY!


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## Trevor Pleco

Hi there, I cant seem to open up those pics you kindlly posted on how you install the Co2 piping into the Hagen mini elite filter, any suggestions as to how I can download or open these these ?

Would this diffuser method still work for a 140Gl (720lts) planted tank, at say two to three bubbles per sec ?

Using a SAGA regulator


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## niko

No, it will not work on tank larger than 2 gallons.

Note that this thread has more pages than the ones with pictures. All questions have been answered many times already.

Also exact planted tank advice over the internet leads to one single thing - more problems and more exact answers over the internet. First thing that comes to mind about bubble rate in a large tank is "What is your circulation?". I bet it's not much because most people don't have a lot of circulation. Establish good circulation and then play with the CO2.

If you ask what is "good circulation" I'd suggest using the Search function on this forum.

--Nikolay


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## Kubalik

Hey all .

Just replaced my ceramic diffuser with the Nikos idea , very happy, thank you for sharing.


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## wearsbunnyslippers

@trevor - go see rudi, he is also using this, and can show you what to do...


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## Trevor Pleco

niko said:


> No, it will not work on tank larger than 2 gallons.
> 
> --Nikolay


Strange, as seems to be working very well and efficiently in several other tanks up to 100gls, but was wondering if 150gl would be pushing it ?


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## vicky

Trevor, after you have been here longer you will learn to recognize Niko's sarcasm. :boink:


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## Trevor Pleco

vicky said:


> Trevor, after you have been here longer you will learn to recognize Niko's sarcasm. :boink:


Ok will get use to it, as thats's usually my forte... hehehe !

Thanks W'Bunslip, seem to be up and running now or rather bubbling, have sent you pm..

T


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## funnytrash

i just use a chopstick diffuser lol those actually work great!


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## Trevor Pleco

funnytrash said:


> i just use a chopstick diffuser lol those actually work great!


Agreed, but very time consuming, besides I'm using mine this week-end, both pairs..


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## niko

Chopstick actually works great until a slime coat actually develops on the actual surface and you need to actually replace it. Not a big deal, cheap and fast. But tThe cheap Elite filter gizmo that we are discussing here does not need any cleaning if setup as described on page 1.

Also a chopstick cannot be used as a difuser on larger tanks. But it is tiny, while the Elite gizmo would be ugly in a nano tank.

Here, I have discissed in lengths the pros and cons of an item that costs nothing and another one that costs $8. Hope everybody is extatic now! 

--Nikolay


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## btimmer30

the link to petco's product page is not available anymore. is it gone? is there a new model?


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## ObiQuiet

I found it here:
http://www.amazon.com/Hagen-Elite-Mini-Underwater-Filter/dp/B0009YD7D4


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## niko

And here's a (blurry) video on how to make this amazing contraption and save "mucho dinero" in the process:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...odify-hagen-mini-elite-filter.html#post591416

--Nikolay


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## killacross

wow niko...youre a better person than me to include that guys video in your thread (though he should have posted here to begin with)


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## jackspratt

I did post it on this forum first but in a new thread.


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## killacross

^^thats my point...you should have posted it into THIS thread...instead of starting a new one (which appears as though youre trying to take credit for Niko's idea)


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## jackspratt

If I was trying to take credit, I would have never posted on this site to begin with.
Props to Niko 100%
Sorry, I'm new to this forum thing.


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## Gumbie

I watched the YouTube video on Niko’s mini filter CO2 regulator, as well as the video for the Ocean Spray bottle DIY CO2 system. They were both clear, concise, and very easy to follow. 

Well done jackspratt! But, you should have given credit to our resident guru. You sound like a Canuck.


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## zhanghanbing

yea, it would be better if there were any pics.


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## niko

Hey the Chinese Jean Gabin is still here. 

Were is a good heavy handed moderator to slap this troll wanabe character out of existence once and for all?

--Nikolay


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## Zapins

Niko, I'm going to make this reactor. I saw this thread months (or years ago?) and I've wanted to try it out ever since. I just moved to CA, and I'm starting off with some tiny tanks (5g) so this seemed like the perfect time to make your reactor. Will let you know how it turns out. 

By the way some links are down on the first page. If you send me some permanent links I can edit your first post for you so people don't have to scroll through 38 pages.


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## niko

This works, period. Unfortunatelly I can't sell it. It's pretty strange to see a myriad of YouTube videos on how to make your own CO2 reactor using a clear plastic tube or a water bottle. Ugly as hell. People apparently can't figure out that sticking the CO2 tubing in the intake of a powerhead works very well.

That's all there is to it - stick the CO2 tube in the intake of any powerhead. There is no need for links and instructions. Use the Elite cheapo pump or whatever powerhead you want. It's all the same. Sponge on the outtake and you are done.

--Nikolay


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## Darkcobra

You may not need a powerhead at all. 

If you already have an Aquaclear HOB, feed CO2 into the intake, and raise the sponge in the basket. Bubbles get chopped up by the impeller, trapped under the sponge, and dissolve at their leisure. Same principle, and have had very good results with it.


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## dstrong

Careful putting the hose in your filter intake if you have a really heavy bioload. You don't want to suffocate your bacteria.


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## niko

Even if you don't kill the bacteria in the filter you are forcing them to barely function. The biofilter works best at pH 7.5-8.0. 

Injecting CO2 in the filter works untill you start to have problems. The filter needs to be certain size, there needs to be certain flow through it, consistent flow rate, etc.

--Nikolay


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## Tex Gal

Niko, you are the man. You know so much! It's a pleasure doing business with you!


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## TheWoo

I am guessing petco changed their site somewhat because I am not getting a link to a page with filters on. Just their main website. Can you post a picture of the filter or get the name of it please?


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## niko

http://www.google.com/search?tbm=is...47l0l3906l17l11l0l0l0l0l312l2122l0.7.3.1l11l0


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## Big_Fish

Hagen Elite A130 Underwater Mini Filter


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## jasonvthomas

*Tiny super efficient CO2 reactor- another simple option*

Hi Guys

Love this forum, particularily this thread. Just joined today.

I have just started getting into the world of planted aquariums Just build my first tank and put some basic plants now.

Made a DIY co2 with 2 litre pepsi bottle a bubble counter with a half litre pepsi bottle, 2 cups sugar & half teaspoon yeast and was looking for the best way to diffuse the Co2 into my tank.

Initially i got confused, as some make diffusers using the output of the filter and some make using the input of the submerged filter.

This thread got me all sorted out, even i feel this is the best way to diffuse it. (But still waiting for the results)

Just made my first reacter using my existing filter, absolutely no modifications needed to that.

My filter is a regular submerged filter with the sponge in 2 removabale plastic portions below the powerhead. The plastic casing has these vertical gaps which dont let small fishes get sucked in. Right in the middle area of the sponge there is a vertical hole going all the way to the powerhead. It also has a place ( i guess venturi) where i can place a tube and it will create bubbles pulled from outside.

So what i did was open the bottom sponge casing and inserted the tube between the gap in the plastic casing and then connected a regular airstone and inserted it into the center hollow area between the sponge and then closed all back in. ( No making holes nothing)

It gives me perfect micro bubbles from the outlet, didnt even have to fix a sponge. Guess i wont fit a sponge as it might not look so neat in my setup. The bubbles are literrally sprayed to the other end of the tank.

Every 1.5 seconds i can hear a small sound and then a bubble spray.

*Ps:* Another thing that i have noticed, that i would like to bring to your attentin is this;

I inserted the co2 tube into the pumps venturi hole which you normally do to areate the tank and even in that it was giving me perfect bubbles every 1.5 seconds spraying into the tank.

Bubble spray wise there was absolutely no differrence when i connected it to the pumps air intake (venturi) or when i connected the tube with a stone inside the filter.

Maybe if someone dont want to get into too much DIY as in making holes and inserting the tube from the bottom of their filter; i guess they can simply just insert the tube into the aldready existing air hole of any filter pump.

What is your take on this guys?

Right now as i have inserted the tube though the bottom, i have a tube connected but plugged in with an air control which if i open then oxygen also will be dispersed along with the C02 bubbles.

*My first question *is: Should i also open the valve so that oxygen is also distributed along with the CO2.

*Second question*: By when should i start seeing some changes in the plants?

regards
Jason


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