# 120 liter - Journaling the journey!



## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Hi everyone, decided to keep a sort of online journal here, if that's ok! Wanted to share how it's been going, now that it's been...oh dear, a few months now? With my El Natural set up.

How it started:










I quickly realize there wasn't nearly enough plants, I had to resort to putting in carbon in the filter to help stabalize everything. I haven't had to change it yet, the idea is that as the carbon wears out/gets old, there will be enough plant growth to really put things in check.

So this is how it's going:










I get some light nitrite readings (below .25 ppm) after I clean any part of my filter, which I have to do every so often because it gets so gunky, the flow starts being too weak.

I have new lights which are probably considered medium intensity because even the red plants in the middle foreground (not sure the name of them!) are starting to perk up and stopped loosing leaves.

At first there was some brown "algae" but that went away a few weeks ago and now with the new lights there's been a growth of hairy/stringy algae. It's not too intense, but I did do a manual clean up and shortened the light schedule by two hours (one in the morning and one at night, continueing with a 4 hour siesta inbetween)

I think things are going along quite well, the fish are doing wonderfully, however they seem skittish around me, I think they are a bit traumatized with my constant hands in the water, always planting new things from the last couple of months but I'm slowly gaining their trust again with every feeding, heh.

Edit.
Wanted to share something interesting, I read that cutting jungle val at the top of the leaves doesn't mean it grows back, but mine have almost with every trim!

Also these two leaves which are particularly dark (excessive nutrients??), I thought were dieing but after cutting them they are already back at the surface.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

It's good that you added plants to this tank. I like the plant you've strung across the surface. Nice touch!

That said, I'm not seeing the amount of plant growth that I would expect after a few months in a tank with soil layer. Of course, I don't know when you added the new light and the new plants. But let's just take the Val that you have growing in the back left corner as an example. It should have spread 2-3 fold by now. Even though it has leaves at surface getting enough light from the small light source, I don't see that the plant has spread much. That makes me think that something is holding all plant growth back. 

What is the GH (water hardness) and KH (carbonate hardness)? Have you had any trouble with plants not rooting or floating to the surface? What did you use for the soil layer? 

The tank is nice, but I think there's room for improvement.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Thank you Diana for your feedback! My water hardness (i only found the Gh test at my local petstore) is 3-8 dH, it's soft water. The ph is around 7.3. I haven't had too many problems with plants uprooting actually. The soil I used is what is called "organic worm hummus" here in Brazil, hummus de minhoca. It was a risk because they don't say what is in it at all.

Let me see if I can recall a timeline to get a better picture because this current set up with all the plants has been recent actually.

-April I bought the stand, May I bought the aquarium.

May 16th, with no fishes, testing the water to see if the soil would release scary chemicals, ammonia, or surprise bugs. All went well!









May 29th, added the pothos

June 12th I added the Swords.

June 13th: I added the new lights except they only have half the led-bulbs that they have now and added new purple-ish (under the leaves) plants to the left corner. They eventually get replanted, distributing it all over the foreground since the little dwarf hairgrass wasn't really going forward (no surprise there, this isn't such a bright light!).











June 15th I added all the sag subulata which now have a toooon of runners everywhere. I also added water sprite (which has been trimmed and replanted once already.)

July 25th A new strip of LED is added to the light fixture. A couple weeks afterwards hairy algae started showing up, mostly on the jungle val on the surface, which is where I did the clean up last week but after diminishing the lights by two hours last week, I already don't see it growing anymore!

The photo of the cut jungle val is from last week, august 3rd. This is how it is now, the dark stripes seem to have dissipated now that it's longer (the longer leaf dipping into the water is that same one!)











The Elodea, one of the first plants in the aquarium, has been trimmed about three our four times now, and replanted (the new bunch you see in background of the picture above was from replanting last week).

So now that I hunted down all my pictures and figured out exactly how long this has all taken, I have to admit it's felt liked WAY longer since I first set this up. But it's only been 3 months, holy cow!

I've been dreaming of this tank since at least February, panicking about the fact that my 11 gallon wasn't enough for my 5 rosy barbs and wondering how I was going to pay for a new tank.

In the last three weeks my sword two of these two "runners":


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

I'd be curious about the organic content of that substrate brand. Two or three months should be long enough for at least a few pockets of CO2 to have formed by now. What happens when you poke around with a stick?


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Bubbles come up still, most of it doesn't smell but once in a while bubbles come up with a sort faint fart-like smell, for lack of a better description 


The brand was something like this, they don't specify much of anything besides being organic...






Húmus de Minhoca Campo e Flores pronto para uso | Cobasi


Húmus de Minhoca Campo e Flores - Encontre na Cobasi produtos ideias para jardinagem, suas plantas e flores pronto para uso. Vem conhecer nossos produtos agrícola!




www.cobasi.com.br


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Whew! You've gone through quite a bit with this tank. I would increase the GH by adding a source of calcium and magnesium. That could easily be part of the problem and explains why your Val are not doing that well. If you can easily get Wonder Shells, I would use them. They work quickly and do the job at 1/3 recommended dose. Poke the soil a little. Can't hurt.

Tank just needs a little tweaking and time. That said, the fact that your Elodea, Sagittaria and Swordplant are doing so splendidly makes me think tank may not need ANY changes. You could just sit back and enjoy the lovely scene you have created..


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Thank you again for the feedback!

While I'm tempted to leave things as they are, I`m also interested in seeing if I can help the jungle val grow a little better. I have rosy barbs, corydoras, a bristlenose pleco, and a TON of snails (i've counted over 10 ramshorns, around 5 or so pond snails which I think my pleco has snacked on because I've found some empty shells around... and 3 or 4 trumpet snails, but there could be a lot more hiding), so I think they are fairly flexible in terms of water hardness - snails for sure won't mind wonder shells!

I managed to catch my biggest trumpet snail on camera, in the corner where I'm pretty sure the ramshorns eggs are because they are constantly springing up from there:





0 new items by Laisa Bellomo-Johnson







photos.app.goo.gl





As you said, I have been through quite a lot with this tank!! I didn't mention the day I finally understood the concept and consequence of anaerobic substrate and, in a panic, needed to solve the problem which was my black rocks on top of the substrate. I had to convince my boyfriend to help me dig a hole into the substrate to place them in contact with the glass, so they wouldn't smother bacteria. We managed to create a circular dam, creating a barrier so we could take out the water where the hole needed to be while preventing water from the rest of the tank from flooding it! It was mostly a success; some dirt did get lifted, leaving the water foggy for a couple of days.

I was wondering about the bubbles, so I have to keep poking to let the co2 out every so often?
Is there a moment where I don't have to do that?

Bubbles to come up by themselves sometimes, although much less now though than in the first few weeks. I usually poke around when I see the pockets forming through the glass.


Here`s a picture of that mysterious purple plant (which a snail hanging on), if anyone could help me ID it?


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

I looked for something like Wonder Shell around here, found this:











Cálcio ( calcium ) 21,50%

Sódio (sodium) 1,10%

Vitamínica B1 (vitamin B1) 0,25%



It`s not quite the same, but I wonder if it will do the trick??


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Reptocal is not the same as Wonder Shells. I would not put it in my tank. You might as well use seashells or oyster grit. See my book (p. 87) for details on what to use to increase water hardness (i.e., calcium, potassium, magnesium).

In the meantime, a possible helper. I would add some baking soda to this tank. Start with 1/2 tsp (~3 grams) per 10 gal (38 liters). That might help as Val can use bicarbonates as a carbon source. Maybe, the low GH is not the problem.

I would try not running that spillway filter for a few days or at least just run it at night. Those spillway filters can remove all CO2, and plants need CO2 badly. Watch fish for oxygen deficiency.

No, you don't have to keep poking substrate. The bubbling by itself does same thing, introduces oxygen.

The plant looks like an Alternanthera species.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Good morning!

Last night I raised the water level right up to the spout of the filter so it wouldn't splash and create so many bubbles. I`ll have to wait until the weekend to test turning it off during the day so I can keep an eye on the fish (I work from 1pm till 10pm).

Today I woke up and found quite a bit of surface scum (if I remember what I read correctly, it's bacteria/lipids?) I cleaned a little bit of it up and did a water test. Results:
0 ammonia
Somewhere between 0 and 0.25 nitrites (less than the last few readings that were squarely at 0.25 ppm, hurray!)
7.3 or 7.4 ph











The only dedicated fish store in my area don't have anything like wonder shells, not even crushed seashells, only calcium in liquid form, a supplement for marine aquarium. I'm going to have to do some reading in your book!

Sodium bicarbonate I do have, I`ll try it out, thanks!

I'm currently re-reading the chapter on bacteria, to understand more about the role of doc/poc and humic substances. There's a lot of floating particles around my tank and the last time it was this visible, I mistakenly did a partial water change because there was also lot of algae growth, so I thought there were excessive nutrients in the water, but turns out maybe just shortening the light duration by two hours did the trick. 

In doing this, I had over-cleaned by vacuuming the mulm in the corners because the nitrites, which were at 0 (this was a few weeks ago) spiked to 0.50 so I did partial water changes (less than 10% every few days) until it went down to 0.25. This whole week I didn't mess with the water, and the nitrites are finally going down on their own. Just as the mulm and particles in the water are building up again. I assume it's POC I see in the water, but wasn't sure if it was supposed to be this visible. 

Now I know mulm is a big source of nutrients so I haven't cleaned it up since. Despite having read the book once before setting all this up, I still have to keep going back and find myself understanding more as I gain hands-on experience!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I think preventing the filter splashing and adding sodium bicarbonate will help.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

So just an update. Tomorrow I plan on dosing the tank with sodium, haven`t done it yet because I wanted to be around to test the water every couple of hours, make sure the ph doesn`t fluctuate too much too fast.

Now that there isn't much surface agitation, there's been quite an explosion of surface biofilm.
The hair algae/brown algae seems to be creeping back after all. Gonna do a manual cleaning of it and then wait it out. Hopefully withe the sodium bicarbonate helping the plants, it will in turn help the algae.

I admit I am tempted to put more filter floss to try to take care of some of the particles in the water... it seems a bit intense or maybe I'm not used to it? I'm wondering if doing this type of tank means not having clear water (doesn't need to be crystal clear, but a little clearer than this...) or if it`s because I have lots of bottom dwellers, who constantly kick up the mulm around the tank.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Fun comparison photo:

July 15th:










A photo from August 28th:











I took the purple plants from the middle and replanted them over the right corner near the branches because the sag is taking over the middle foreground, so many runners!!

The lovely light green plant in the left corner has just recently exploded as well in size, it's so exciting to see everything fill out like this!

I dosed the tank with sodium, the PH did go up a bit, but the fish didn't seem to mind, so I'm not worried. From 7.2 it's around 8 now.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

I'm wondering if it's a good idea to try to lower the pH back to under 8. I tested it again and it looks to be around 8.6.

These liquid tests color sheets don't seem entirely accurate to me so it's hard to make a reading. I have two ph tests- one only goes up to 7.5 and I can tell the blue is a bit more intense than the 7.5 and the other tests up to 8.6 and it seems to be reading right around that spot.

Anyways, I've been reading about ways to lower the ph but most of the solutions seem to be ways that eliminate the minerals as well, creating soft water, which is obviously not what I want to do.

I'm just worried on the long term effect of my fishe's lifespan with such high pH, considering the fish I have (rosy barbs, corydoras, bristlenose pleco...)

In other news, I started setting up an 11 liter tank in the natural method, for shrimp (there's only snails in there at the moment). So I went and bought a ton of plants and the fishstore gave me a mystery snail, after I stopped to admire them.... so I added him to the this 120 liter tank.

I'm wondering if the bioload might be on the limit....5 rosy barbs, 7 corydoras, 1 bristlenose pleco and who knows how many trumpet snails, ramshorns, and now my mystery snail!

I mean, ammonia and nitrites are 0 as of tonight, and have been this way for weeks, so maybe the plants are handling it all after all, adding one mystery snail probably won't create a problem.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

That's good that you are getting some plant growth. The sodium bicarbonate probably helped. Barring major water changes, I would not add anymore.

I've found that messing with pH is a waste of time. Your fish can probably handle it fine. 

Now, you need to look for a source of calcium. If you can't find the Wonder Shells, then I would at least put a calcium carbonate source into your filter. This could be oyster grit or crushed coral. Remember that the finer the shell particles, the faster they will dissolve and release calcium into the water.

I would consider turning the filter off during the day. I suspect you would get better plant growth, as that filter is probably removing CO2 during the day when plants need it most. Mechanical timers are $7 at various hardware stores.

In my article 'Potted Plants for Fish Breeding Tanks' I've dispensed with filters altogether. Article can be downloaded from my website.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Today I found a KH test at the fishstore, yay! Where I also bought crushed coral (with aragonite, I hope this isn't an issue? From when I read online briefly, it's not?). 

Definitely low on CO2! 

5 KH, with 8 pH = 1.47 ppm CO2.

I left the filter off today (but left a tiny pump on inside to create water flow), tonight I'll turn it on and I already placed a little bag of the crushed coral in the filter and tomorrow I'll do a complete water reading to see what`s changed!

Thanks for all the advice! I'm re-reading the chapter on carbon and the different ways plants absorb it, it`s fascinating but I admit being new to this I can get a bit confused!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

spaquarista said:


> Today I found a KH test at the fishstore, yay! Where I also bought crushed coral (with aragonite, I hope this isn't an issue? From when I read online briefly, it's not?).
> 
> Definitely low on CO2!
> 
> ...


Good you are measuring CO2. Remember that it will change drastically during the day, so take note of what time of day you measure it. Highest reading will be early in morning before lights go and photosynthesis starts (see Graph XI-2 in my book, p. 179).

Aragonite and crushed coral are both mainly calcium carbonate, so what you got is fine. Your pH is already high and I don't think that it can go much higher despite the added carbonate. It will just take longer to dissolve.

KH is fine. 

I think leaving the filter off as much as possible will definitely help increase CO2 levels.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

I've tested the waters two mornings in a row - KH reading is 6, with the pH 8.2, the CO2 reading is about the same I guess.

I'm honestly considering ditching my HOB filter for an internal sponge filter (I only have a small internal pump) because I think the bacteria source in the filter is doing a lot of the work right now. Since turning it off during the day, my nitrites and ammonia went up, both up to 0.25 which happened once after cleaning my filter, but it went down on it`s own in a week after getting no higher than 0.25 - I'm not sure this will be the case now, either way, today I'll keep the filter off again and see what reading I get tonight.

Crossing my fingers that things will adapt soon and balance out. In the meantime, I'm reading about and trying to fully understand the CO2 reading and how it relates to pH. From what I understand, once there's more CO2 available, the pH will go down a little?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

spaquarista said:


> From what I understand, once there's more CO2 available, the pH will go down a little?


That's true if it were distilled water. But with plants in the tank, they will remove the CO2 and drive the pH back up. My tanks all have an alkaline pH. Most fish can handle it.

By removing the filter and preventing degassing CO2, your plants will get the CO2 instead of the air. That's the benefit. 

Since you are monitoring things so closely, I think your fish will be able to come through a temporary adjustment. 

Have you been able to add a calcium source to this tank?


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Oh right, that makes sense. I added the crushed coral in the filter on sunday, so it's been two nights already.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Today is victory dance day! This morning the nitrites were starting going down, almost to a clear reading, while ammonia was still high but less so. Tonight both were at solid 0! Success!











I'm wondering if I shouldn't dose the tank again with sodium bicarbonate or if need to be patient and let the coral start to dissolve.


Off topic -

This past week I set up my 4.5 gallon aquarium with soil, sand cap, some of the crushed coral as part of the substrate, added plants (trimmings from my other aquariums together with some new ones), a small pump and snails. The readings are off the chart naturally, I'm surprised the snail population has not died but thrived this week. So many baby snails hatching all over the place! 

The plan was a shrimp tank, but I'm wondering if maybe a Betta wouldn't be appropriate too? It would help keep the snail population down and eventual shrimp population....perhaps? Pictures to come soon!


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Today I decided to get rid of the black background, the fish were startled at first but soon were out and about like normal.












A couple of detail shots:


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Very nice! I see healthy fish, no algae, decent plant growth. I would not add any more bicarbonates. Your KH is fine and you don't want to fill tank with sodium. The coral will probably not dissolve much at that high pH, but I just don't see any major reason to mess with this tank. 

As to GH, it could be higher. Don't be tempted to add commercial products, because most of them contain high levels of sulfates, and that will cause real problems for this tank. Since Wonder Shells are not available in your country, if you can get your hands on pure calcium chloride (CaCl2), that would be the next thing you might consider. CaCl2 is a common lab chemical that dissolves immediately and that won't change pH. I have a bottle of it that I'm still using after 30 years. See photo. 

Your fish are beautiful!


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Hurray for you!. This is one of the best journals on APC and it's hard to believe it's only one month old! Fascinating struggle between keeping the beneficial bacteria uploaded via a filter and keeping the dissolved CO2 from escaping during the day. I'm no expert, but I have found that over time, beneficial bacteria will find a home inside the tank wherever they can get a foothold, so running the filter less and less may be a worthwhile experiment.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

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johnwesley0 said:


> Hurray for you!. This is one of the best journals on APC and it's hard to believe it's only one month old! Fascinating struggle between keeping the beneficial bacteria uploaded via a filter and keeping the dissolved CO2 from escaping during the day. I'm no expert, but I have found that over time, beneficial bacteria will find a home inside the tank wherever they can get a foothold, so running the filter less and less may be a worthwhile experiment.


The aquarium itself is four months old, with a slow and steady process of adding more and more plants, which is why I had to put in a filter, becuase I wasn't able to have a heavy plant load off the bat.

I guess tt's technically been only a month since I've started the transition to being filterless, so I think in another month, by comparing the plant growth, I`ll get an idea of how much this is helping them!

I'm going to try to find another way to put calcium in the water, in a way that won't also be dependent on the filter (which is where the crushed coral is placed right now).

I wonder if maybe crushed eggshells dissolve a little better in this situation? Or if I tried crushing it into a fine powder? I tried making the coral into smaller, finer pieces, but they are way too tough! Eggshells are probably easier.


EDIT - Ok, so after reading people's experiences on this site with eggshells, apparently even in powder form, due to my high pH, it might not actually dissolve into the water as I was imagining. I looked up CaCl2 directly on some popular brasilian websites and found a few interesting products...

First one is liquid form, found as a baking ingredient?? Not sure what "40%" means though, but their ingredient list only has calcium cloride? Pão de Açúcar | Supermercado Online










Same concept in this link, used to make cheese apparently.. 2 Cloretos De Cálcio Líquido 200ml Para Fazer Queijo Caseiro - R$ 29,99












Other than these products, I'm finding some chemistry kits, in powder form, but also include other things (magnesium and sodium bicarbonate, which is an interesting kit, but it's not clear if they are sold separately or mixed all together...Brazil has terrible advertising skills.)

The search continues!


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

No idea if this is the right thing, powder form- (I failed chemistry class and went to art school - just being up front about this right now!)


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Until I stumbled upon Wonder Shells I had an old rock that somehow had become fused to a bunch of clam shells. It was pretty ancient. But, it was a pretty good buffer for my PH and I seem to remember it making my water harder, too. Point being, it doesn't have to dissolve rapidly in order to work. Even Wonder Shell will stick around for months a the bottom of your tank.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

So I found something very interesting pertaining the black marks a couple of my jungle vals. I have two varieties, one thinner and one thicker, which is the one that is showing the black stripes, turns out it might be natural to the plant! There is such a thing as a "tiger" variety:


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

spaquarista said:


> No idea if this is the right thing, powder form- (I failed chemistry class and went to art school - just being up front about this right now!)
> View attachment 73937


That is what you want! CaCl2 is hydroscopic, so it comes with attached water molecules or eventually accumulates them and turns to a liquid. That's fine. See picture of my jar. The calcium is still there!

The cheese calcium also would probably work. Take your pick and experiment.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

CaCl2 will pull water out of the air too if you leave the container open. It will turn to slush if it absorbs enough water. Oh, it will react with water too by releasing heat. It makes a great ice melt on your driveway.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Thanks everyone for the information, this is truly all very new to me! I bought the liquid form, because of the quantity.

Last night I put in one teaspoon, which really didn't do much to the gH reading but I decided to go slowly, so this morning I added another teaspoon and the reading budged a little. Probably due to being 40%, so it's very diluted. Last night it turned blue at a solid two drops of the solution but this time it would be close to two and half, because at two it was sort of blue but not persistently blue.

Tonight I'll add another teaspoon and onward we go! I made a video of my Corydoras this morning during feeding, as it's so rare to see them all at the same time, though it's hard to count all 7 of them in the video. I am just so smitten by them!

New video by Laisa Bellomo-Johnson

I also managed to catch my bristle nose on camera, except using my real camera, with a telephoto zoom from the other side of the room, a real wild-life type filmography!! Otherwise she would run away if I held my phone up the tank. So I have to upload that from my memory card still.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Very nice video. Your fish look so healthy and happy!
I'm so glad you are adding calcium to this tank. A GH of 2 is just the bare minimum. 
I believe your plants will grow better with this addition.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Edit- I forgot to mention, I left the filter off last night, ammonia/nitrite readings stayed zero! I'm wondering if I shouldn't just leave it off from now on, make it an officially filter-free Certified Organic Aquarium?! 😁

15 teaspoons later (next time I'm buying the concentrates powder! On the otherhand, this allowed for a much more controlled rise) I managed to get the gH up to roughly around 8-9, so I stopped there.

I think I read somewhere that this will last quite a few months, if I'm not mistaken? Either way, I'll keep tabs on it for a while and see how fast the plants are going to be absorb it considering they are probably missing it right now.

So I've been thinking about the possibility of adding spring/mineral water, as it usually has a lot calcium, magnesium, etc. Although what concerns me is the levels of other stuff like nitrates, sodium, etc. I looked up a few brands and seems like nothing is really 100%. (For example, Nestlé Pure Life). Here in Brazil we have a lot of options for natural spring/mineral waters, so I'm wondering if it's worth the trouble looking into this option.

Decided to place this question out here because my boyfriend is keen on the idea (me, not so much because I haven't really read anything about it.)


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

spaquarista said:


> Edit- I forgot to mention, I left the filter off last night, ammonia/nitrite readings stayed zero! I'm wondering if I shouldn't just leave it off from now on, make it an officially filter-free Certified Organic Aquarium?! 😁
> 
> 15 teaspoons later (next time I'm buying the concentrates powder! On the otherhand, this allowed for a much more controlled rise) I managed to get the gH up to roughly around 8-9, so I stopped there.
> 
> ...


If the calcium does benefit, getting the GH up to 8-9 should do the trick. I suspect the calcium levels will stay up there. It's not like CO2 that degasses within a day. Plants won't take up that much calcium. Aquatic botanists think that water calcium protects against metal toxicity, so it's not really a nutrient uptake issue.

Spring water cannot hurt, but the salts are probably so dilute that it would be a rather expensive solution. You could always do a GH test on the spring water. 

I would wait a month to see what the calcium results are. Should be interesting!


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Hello all, just posting an update! I officially took out the HOB filter, it had been off for over a week now basically. I turned it on for a few minutes each day just so the water inside wouldn't stagnate and I was a bit nervous taking it off completely, but now I made the full transition.

I`ll post a picture of the plant growth in another couple of weeks for a better comparison.

It's made it easier to keep the lids on too, one of my Rosy Barbs jumped out! My luck we were next to the aquarium when it happened, managed to put him back in quickly. He went all bug-eyed for a couple days from the stress and maybe dirt from the ground irritated his eyes, but he's back to normal now, thank god.

I've got my little shrimp tank up and running with 4 shrimps. There were 5, but one shrimp got stuck in the pump sadly but my boyfriend managed to fix it up with sponge pieces. One of them is berried so that exciting! This is also a dirted tank.














And for the sake of sharing photos, this is my boyfriend's aquarium, which is planted but not dirted. It has Mbreda Amazonia substrate for plants with a sand cap, with 5 rummynoses and 1 blue gourami, who we are trying to decide if he just scrapped his head on the rock, or might be developing "hole in head"....not fun.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

One month update!

After dosing the water with calcium and sodium bicarbonate, I've noticed the jungle val in particular is no longer growing so brittle, it used to break easily but now it's growing stronger.

Two weeks ago I trimmed the val, just so a few inches of it stayed on the surface, it`s already grown the full length of the tank and then some!











The amazon sword plant is huge as well, with another runner sprouting already:




















I can't do a true comparison shot of all the plants, because I trimmed the red repens plants in the bottom right corner and trimmed the hygrophila (bottom left corner), putting the trimmings in a new tank. There is one hygrophila that I left growing tall, it's already halfway the height of the aquarium.

Overall plants are happy! The water sprite doubled it size, I ended up cutting it and replanting the top part, because it was bending over, covering the waters surface. The java fern that wasn't growing anywhere is finally starting to becoming a bushy presence behind the dwarf sag (which continues sprouting runners every which way).

The old leaves on the hygrophila do tend to fall off as it grows taller, I wonder if it's lack of light because of the jungle val or maybe lack of magnesium. I do over feed the tank to fertilize the plants.

Edit- Water parameters:
Considering it has been several months, I did a partial water change yesterday, it helped clear up the water that was starting to turn yellowish.

I re-dosed the water with calcium, so it's has a 8-9 gH and 4 kH.

The pH, before the water change, had gone down to a 7.8 and my tap water went down from 8.6 to 7.4 (go figure) so when I did a water change, the pH went down slightly, to 7.6 (maybe even 7.5, hard to tell).

Also the water has been unheated, running on the cooler side, 72 F/ 22 C. From what I understand, plants grow slower in cooler conditions.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

What happened to your fish?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Bravo! The picture tells it all. The Val is ready to jump out of that tank and the Swordplant is growing like it should. What a transformation!

I hope that you are pleased with the results. (I surely would be.)


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

My fish like hiding in the jungle val, behind the rock, whenever I walk past them. This was after their morning meal so they weren't swimming after me anymore, heh.

It's really amazing to see the pictures from a month ago, it really has filled in, it's hard to see that on a day to day basis!

Edit- if you look closely, there are a couple corydoras sitting still in front of the cave! They are very good at camo.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Hello all, just felt like posting a couple of curiosities about my tank.

I was getting rid of my excess duckweed from the shrimp tank, and put maybe a small cup of it in my large tank, where I thought, "Hey, this has a lot of jungle val, I wonder how long it will take for it to disappear, test out allelopathy!"

Turns out, I either have very strong duckweed or very weak jungle val, because the duckweed took over! I have to do a "trimming" and take some out to create more growing space.












The other curiosity is seeing how my pothos roots have grown, considering the very nippy rosy barbs! In all my other tanks they have grown long roots, but my rosies like snacking on them apparently, so they have become quite short and bushy!












And here's a bonus video of my cory doras running away from the paparazzi ( me ):
New video by Laisa Bellomo-Johnson


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Duckweed reproduces faster than anything in your tank. Allelopathy is questionable in an aquarium.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Nice tank results!

Allelopathy is very species specific and undependable for managing aquariums. I regret having duckweed in my tanks. Water Lettuce, Salvinia, Frogbit are so much bigger and easier to remove. Duckweed will block light to other plants, but being so small doesn't do nearly as much for water purification as a big strapping Water Lettuce. 

Interesting that your fish nibble on plant roots. That's a new one for me!


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Barbs are plant eaters. I’m surprised the don’t eat all of your duckweed.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

My zebra danios finished off the last of the duckweed months ago during a long weekend when the automatic feeder was not programmed. Salvinia minima has been a mainstay ever since.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

The rosies are really something! And it's not for a lack of food! I end up giving them spirulina snacks to try to satisfy that plant eating urge. I think they are to blame for my occasional floating Elodea (considering it's weak rooting system).

I don't mind the duckweed in my 5 gallon shrimp tank because it's small and easy to clear out half of it using my net every week or two. Nor do I mind it in this 30 gallon tank, because it does take longer for it to cover, both tanks have strong lighting too.

I did put in salvinia minima in our 20 gallon, because it's easier to manage, slower growth rate. I do think it looks nicer, but after putting it in the 30 gallon, the rosies completely destroyed it's roots!

I'm considering putting salvinia in the 10 gallon, which is empty of fish right now (lots of snails though) because that one has more algae growth, due to the fact that it has less plants. It's the only tank that doesn't have dirt (does have substrate specific for plants though). The plan is to put in a couple of ottos in there first, see if how well they handle the algae before considering the salvinia minima in there. (Then maybe a Betta, but I'm worried about the roughness of the rocks in that tank, must do some research... topic for another thread!)


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

I'm always inspired by other people's journaling on their aquariums, but I never feel like there's much to report on mine. I have noticed that the pH went down a bit since I took out the hang on filter.

26 of Setember it was 8.2
9 of August it was 7.8
11 of Nov it was 7.4

Saturday I plan on doing the full battery of tests plus a ph reading in the morning, evening and night to see how much it changes during the day, it's hard for me to do that normally because of my working hours.

Due to this pH drop, when I did a water change last month, I decided to add a teaspoon (or maybe half? I regretfully did not write this information down) powdered eggshells as a calcium suplement, instead of the liquid calcium I have, to see how much it dissolves. When I did the water change last month, the gh and kh both dropped to a reading of 3. So I thought using the powered eggshells (I put a bunch of dried eggshells in my blender, it turned into a surprisingly fine powder) would be a fun experiment. Hoping it works out, it would be a much more ecological/economical solution for me.

I also redosed a half teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate after the water change.

In other news, my jungle val (the bigger one) sprouted a HUGE second runner, with flower buds which are starting to bloom and now an even bigger, thicker THIRD runner. I'm going to have to start trimming them, plus some leaves which are starting to want to jump out of the tank as well.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Hi everyone! Just felt like sharing a photo of how the plant growth is coming along-
I added a piece of wood that has java fern and moss on it. I had to take it out of the 10 gallon tank, it was taking up too much space. I like how it looks here!

I also added some chinese ivy plant (cardamine lirata) in the left corner, they were trimmings from the shrimp tank. Adds a delicate detail to this monster jungle!

Again, I managed to take a picture with no fish around, but here's a video of the rosies hanging out-
New video by Laisa Bellomo-Johnson













Also a rare appearance of Batgirl from a few weeks ago.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Is it my imagination or does the cabomba and elodea eventually run out of steam in these heavily planted tanks?


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

johnwesley0 said:


> Is it my imagination or does the cabomba and elodea eventually run out of steam in these heavily planted tanks?


I think any plant will lose steam next to those amazon swords.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Terrific! This is the way a swordplant should grow.

What do you think turned this tank around?


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

johnwesley0 said:


> Is it my imagination or does the cabomba and elodea eventually run out of steam in these heavily planted tanks?


The cabomba actually seem to be doing well, but they are spreading towards the front of the tank, away from the swords. I have trimmed them quite a few times as soon as a couple of their stems reach the surface.

The elodea on the other hand, I have tried to create a dense bunch of them, by trimming and replanting, but they are often found floating, so I gave up since the root system of the swords are clearly taking up space. Whenever they are floating or when I trim, I just throw it out. Aesthetically speaking, not my favorite plant anyways.




dwalstad said:


> Terrific! This is the way a swordplant should grow.
> 
> What do you think turned this tank around?


I attribute the change to the two things you specifically advised me on, the water hardness and the oxygenation from the HOB filter.

I read someone say, and I have to say it has been my case, that sometimes it's easier to synthesize the information from your book properly after having first hand experiences! Having specific feedback from everyone during my learning curve has been invaluable!

My biggest learning curve was dealing with the water hardness, which I forgot to update you all, the eggshell dosing seems to have worked since after a few weeks the gh/kh readings went back up again after my big water change.

I have been able to successfully get my Naturally Planted shrimp tank going too after the rough beginning with the plant situation and since have been reading about how to deal with nutrient rich soils.

The conclusion of all this is that almost two months ago, my boyfriend and I set up our 4th tank with soil (that makes 3 out 4 with potting soil!) and from the get go we put in A TON of plants. Initial regular water changes to help rid the excess nutrients, and only put fish as soon as the plants got over their initial wilting (50% of the plants were from my other tanks but 50% were store bought so this time I wised up to their adaption phase.) The only "trouble" I ran into was that a couple of Planaria worms showed up but we were able to treat the tank before fish were put in there.

Here're before and after shots of this 4th tank, which is 20 gallons.

A few days after set up-












Two weeks later: this is the first day we put in the fish. It was definitely still a shock to realize I didn't have to worry about "cycling the tank" considering the plants were already busy filtering things.











The tank today, we are still dealing with the intense tannins the wood released, which caused our carpet monte carlo to not do well in the long run, not to mention our Gourami really loves nipping at them, so half of them were found floating.











Sorry for the gigantic post! But before people panic, some notes on this tank:

1. The hills were made with stones, so the soil was placed on top of it, not to risk anaerobic conditions.

2. The very middle of the tank doesn't have soil, only the terracota substrate. The initial "design' was to keep it as a clearing, but then on a whim we put the monte carlo there, but again, not a place we have to worry about going anaerobic since there's no soil.

3. We initially had floating plants, but took them out due to various reasons, like the HOB filter causing water movement (the one I took off my 30 gallon) and the tannins cutting down the light enough by itself.

4.Yes, we decided to reuse our HOB filter rather than buy another new piece of equipment, so I make sure the water level is always very high, creating a nice current with no splashing. The tetras love swimming against the current!

So yeah, I just consider this a planted tank, not a true " El Natural Method " tank because of the filter and, for example, having to clean the mulm buildup around the terracota substrate, since there's no soil there for it to recycle into. The plant growth is great, but I'm aware there's probably a healthy colony of bacteria in the filter, so it's nice not to have to be totally worried about the plants all the time. That said, the amonia and nitrate readings never spiked, probably thanks to the plants and I do dose the water with calcium and a little sodium bicarbonate to keep them happy. 😄


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Thanks for your reply and sharing your progress with us. I think you have acquired a very good understanding of aquarium ecology. 

A little filtration and water circulation is fine. In some cases, it can be beneficial. 

Very pretty tank!


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Hi everyone,

So the last few weeks my ammonia level went up slightly, not quite .25 but not exactly zero, and nitrites went up smidge as well, between .25-.50. I ended up doing a small water change, which helped but nitrite still giving a reading, now below .25

I decided to do a major plant trim, I thought maybe the plant growth might be stalling. Hopefully in a week the readings will be normalized.

It was fun trimming the dwarf sag, now I can actually see all my Corys again! They were always hidden away within, I couldn't find all of them for the life of me! I'll post a picture later of how nice it looks all trimmed.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

spaquarista said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> So the last few weeks my ammonia level went up slightly, not quite .25 but not exactly zero, and nitrites went up smidge as well, between .25-.50. I ended up doing a small water change, which helped but nitrite still giving a reading, now below .25
> 
> ...


That's a very important point to make. That it isn't necessarily how big or how lush your plants look, but the rate at which they are actually growing that counts.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I would remove some of those rocks on left side of tank. They are taking up "floor space" that would be better devoted to plant growth. And be careful not to trim plants too much; that can result in algae. Based on your recent photo, your tank is a long way from being over-crowded with plants. Still, I'm glad you can see your Corys!
I would try to accommodate floating plants. You could make a circle with air-line tubing to float on surface, so plants don't get trapped under the filter. Or tie larger floating plants (Water Lettuce or Frogbit) to the driftwood. Remember that floating plants are *much, much* better than submerged plants in removing nitrite and ammonia from the water.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

I am considering if maybe the problem is over feeding, so I'm trying to be lighter with the food these days. My boyfriend thinks maybe there are too many snails? The trumpet snail population is positively booming. Another sign of over feeding?

Most of my heavy trimming was of the dwarf sag, which is taking up over half the floor space already, I purposely take out any sprouts near the rocks, I try to keep that cave clear. I cut off some of the biggest leaves of the amazon sword plants (there's still a bunch left though) and trimmed one of the biggest water sprites.

Speaking of the cave/rocks, I'm going to consider taking it out as a last option...all the fish love hiding behind and in it, especially the pleco...but really the main reason is that it would create such a mess, the rocks are totally imbedded in the soil!! I hope it doesn't come to that, but I understand.

There's a good amount of duckweed on the surface at the moment, and the jungle val has already bounced back from a heavy trim a couple weeks ago. I'll put in salvinia minima again, might be better than the duckweed...but the last time, the Rosies totally destroyed their roots.😕


Picture time (this is after the trimming)


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

So, wait. You got rid of the driftwood? This looks like a totally different tank.
Personally, I wouldn't touch the trumpet snails. I was worried at first when I first introduced them to my tank (it started with just one!) but I really don't think they represent a huge bio-load. And, they really earn their keep by keeping the algae in check.

EDIT: My bad. It took me a while to figure out that the tank from ten days ago was the so-called, "4th tank" that you and your boyfriend have set up. It might be useful in the future to start a separate journal for different tanks. I'm getting old and it's not easy to remember which photos are from what tank a month later.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

johnwesley0 said:


> My bad. It took me a while to figure out that the tank from ten days ago was the so-called, "4th tank" that you and your boyfriend have set up. It might be useful in the future to start a separate journal for different tanks. I'm getting old and it's not easy to remember which photos are from what tank a month later.


I agree totally. I'm probably older than johnwesley and my patience has not increased with age. 

Also, 2 pictures (side and front) is enough. Scrolling through a bunch of similar pictures is irritating. Pick out and post the best two pictures that depict the problem, or hopefully, the solution.

My advice: To get the best answers, take your time when posting.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Oops. Sorry for the confusion.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that maybe the ammonia spike is just the natural cycle for your tank. A month without water changes is not so bad for a newly established tank.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

I saw someone ask about pictures of trumpet snails, but I don't see the post anymore. Anyways, here's a link to two fotos. They are absolutely everywhere you look in the substrate. There's a lot of ramshorns too but they don't reproduce so quickly. The pond snails have no luck in this tank, I find their shells empty everywhere, probably the pleco snacks on them.






0 new items by Laisa Bellomo-Johnson







photos.app.goo.gl










0 new items by Laisa Bellomo-Johnson







photos.app.goo.gl


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

spaquarista said:


> I saw someone ask about pictures of trumpet snails, but I don't see the post anymore.


Yeah, that was me. I deleted it because I wasn't sure if you were coming back.LOL. Thanks. I'm fascinated by your snail situation. I stand by my first answer. If the pleco is killing off the pond snails, the trumpet snails may be your next best housekeepers. I understand they multiply at the merest hint of extra food, but if they don't turn you off aesthetically, I'd let them alone.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

I don't mind them at all, but i do admit i often wonder when too much is too much, heh.

With my shrimp tank i think there was an explosion of baby pond snails at a time when the plants were still adapting. In this 120lt I'm just wondering if over fed them recently together with plants stalling a bit.

Anyway, it's amonia/nitrite levels are not the biggest problem ever, just made me wonder what could be happening.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

I finally got new test strips (6 in 1) that has nitrate and nitrite readings! But now I ran into a scary problem which is diverging results. I've underlined the results that show the biggest difference.

The readings for my 120 liter tank WERE as follows with the liquid tests:
Brand: Labcon
Nitrite - .25
Amonia - <.25
gH - 9
kH - 3
pH (brand of the test: Nutricon) - 7.4

The readings from the new Colombo brand 6 in 1 test strip are:

Nitrate - <10 (but not quite 0)
Nitrite - <0.5 (not quite 0)
gH - >7
kH - 6
pH - 6.4 

The pH reading is extremely different!! The Nutricon liquid test read my tap water as pH 8.4 and now the Colombo strip says it's 6.8.

I found a Brasilian aquarist group on facebook and posted about this issue, since they will have more knowledge with these brands and be able to suggest brands that are available here without importing, but I decided to post this issue here as well. I couldn't find a recent thread on comparing test brands and divergent readings, sorry if there is something on this topic already.


Edit. I just wanted to vent my frustration, the Colombo kit is imported and was more expensive than the Labcon/Nutricon brands. I found an even more expensive imported brands- Tropica and API 6 in 1 test strips brand. Would anyone recommend those??

I found the liquid API tests, but the pH test alone is R$140 reais - which is what I paid for the 6 in 1 tests. The Nutricon pH test are R$30, so you get the idea of the price diferençe...I've avoided having to buy imported, but I had no idea the accuracy on these things could be so different and I don't know if more expensive is really a sign of better in this case.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

You're going to drive yourself crazy once you go down that rabbit hole of liquid tests versus test strips and different testing results. Pick one method and stick with it. Personally, I find liquid tests easier to read, but they come at the cost of a lot of dripping and shaking. And, of all the tests, PH is IMO (in my opinion), the least important past a certain point. I haven't tested my PH in over a month. The bottom line is always how does your tank look? Are the fish swimming around happily? Are the plants growing? Everything else is just confirming what you can see with your own eyes.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

That was about the best reply I could have hoped for, thank you! Everyone is happy and healthy and the pH readings (whatever the pH might actually be) has been stable in all the tanks for months.

(Except the shrimps, but I posted about that else where, I've been treating them already.)


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Digital pH pens are pretty accurate. You can calibrate them with packets of known pH salts. 
they don’t last very long though. After a long time of not using it, the reading swing wildly.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

LOL. In that case, I have to start using mine more.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

johnwesley0 said:


> LOL. In that case, I have to start using mine more.


Yeah, there's a liquid in the pH sensor that exchanges ions into the surrounding water. I guess something goes wrong with it after a while.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> Digital pH pens are pretty accurate. You can calibrate them with packets of known pH salts.
> they don’t last very long though. After a long time of not using it, the reading swing wildly.


Yes, that's what someone in the Facebook group suggested. Someone also said Nutricon pH test readings reallly do tend to be too high so, good to know!


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Well, looks like my digital PH pen has died. Tested a water sample last night and it came up with a wildly improbable 5.0 (and, yes, an enormous amount of blinking before settling on a number.) Previous tests had been averaging in the high 7s. This morning, using the same water sample, I broke open the two liquid tests that come with the API Master kit. The only thing I don't like about these PH tests is that if the sample is above 7.4, you are caught in this nether region where your results are off the charts as far as the "regular" test is concerned but may overlap the lower end of the "high range" PH test kit. Bottom line: I think I'm still in the high 7s - possibly 8. But, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Try changing your battery before throwing out the pen. Low voltage can cause blinking and swings.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

I decided to get the pH pen, and the readings are similar to what the tests strips were registering. This is a relief honestly, the idea of having pH 8.6 coming out of my tap water was disturbing me!! 

As much as everyone says not to worry about it...the first six months when I used another test kit, I had neutral (7.2) tap water and now the test strips and the pen both confirmed that.

So now I discovered my 120 lt aquarium is actually pH 6.8 and the other three aquariums are around 7.2-7.5.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Happy new year everyone!

Recently where I live here in São Paulo, there has been so much rain and so many power outages, I can say that I am _so relieved_ to have naturally planted tanks because I was able to rest easy knowing the power outages didn't pose a problem to the fish.

Here`s a nice photo of how my 120 liter tank is looking, after a heavy trimming of the jungle val and removing 50% of the duckweed yesterday.

There are absolutely no more elodeas anymore, I slowly removed them all, since most of them ended up floating. The camboba is finding it's space in the corner, I replant the trimmings so it's becoming more filled out.

I`m considering slowly taking out the not-so-red-anymore-ludwigia as the dwarf sag take over. Anyways, details. Needless to say, I highly enjoy the aquascaping aspect of the hobby!


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Hello everyone! I'm posting today because I'm trying to figure out why some of my plants are growing with some holes (which the snails are taking advantage of and making bigger). Here are just a couple of imagens but there's some plants with holes similar across the board on all my aquariums so I'm pretty sure it's the fact that my water is soft and I only dosed with calcium and sodium bicarbonate.

I looked up the "recipe for hardness" and figured I should add potassium and magnesium to help the plants. Am I right to assume so?

I looked up salt of potassium, salt substitute, but it has Iodine in it, can anyone tell me if that's normal and safe, or not? The amounts: in 1g of the salt there is 490 mg of potassium and 24 mcg of iodine.

If I'm diluting it, will the Iodine be safe? I read that it's normal for salt water tanks to have it and at such trace amounts won't hurt freshwater fish, but this is just me googling, so I'd like to know if this is true.

Thanks for any input, I read through the Hardness Recipe thread and didn't seem anyone else mention this issue with potassium salt with iodine.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

I've had pretty good success with just potassium gluconate purchased from any vitamin aisle. A 99 mg tablet will dissolve pretty quickly, or you can crush it with a pestle. In my experience, I only had to dose it once before getting results.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Thanks! I didn't have any luck finding it in any of the pharmacies around here but I found it online! Hurray for the internet!


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

If you're buying potassium tablets, might as well stick a few tablets in the soil too. They sell it in powder form as well. It dissolves in water instantly.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Oh, that's interesting! Good technique. I did buy them in tablet form. Is there some sort of recommended ratio of how many tablets per gallon? My aquariums are 4, 10, 20 and 30 gallons.



Edit- To keep in the spirit of journaling about my 120 liter aquarium, I feel like sharing the sad news that about a month ago one of my Rosy Barbs died, she had an extremely swollen belly one day and didn't make it. I'm at a total loss as to what caused it, but just in case it was from constipation, I made everyone in that aquarium fast for a day and then gave them veggies. Although no other fish was exhibiting such swollen bellies.

This caused an upset with the remaining four Rosies, they kept nipping at each other a lot... so considering also the fact that the male Rosy is already over 5 years old (he was gifted to me, the reason I got into this whole hobby to begin with!!) I decided to get two more Rosies, a male and female.

My boyfriend successfully identified a male Rosy from the fish store, I was shocked! During quarantine he was totally pale but today we put both of them in the main tank and, lo and behind, he colored right up and dark black appeared on his fins! So the group of 6 are hanging out right now, totally at peace, no more bullying and fin nipping.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

spaquarista said:


> Oh, that's interesting! Good technique. I did buy them in tablet form. Is there some sort of recommended ratio of how many tablets per gallon? My aquariums are 4, 10, 20 and 30 gallons.


I have a porcelain bowl that I estimate is about 10 gallons when full; it's probably at 7 or 8 gallons now and 1 tablet was all I needed - and, even then I think I experienced a slight algae bloom that the bladder snails quickly took care of.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Gluconate is a type of sugar and could stimulate rampant bacterial growth. Sticking candy into the substrate? Unless you know someone who has experience with K gluconate, I would stick with KCl added to the water.

Iodine at the amount used for human consumption should be fine. (I don't know where people got the idea Iodine was a problem when added in small amounts.)


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> Gluconate is a type of sugar and could stimulate rampant bacterial growth. Sticking candy into the substrate? Unless you know someone who has experience with K gluconate, I would stick with KCl added to the water.
> 
> Iodine at the amount used for human consumption should be fine. (I don't know where people got the idea Iodine was a problem when added in small amounts.)



My concern regarding iodine, is from reading about people treating fish diseases with salt, there's always a warning that it can't be table salt because of the iodine, so I wondered if it has to do with concentration amounts.

Would the gluconate exlain why johnwesley0 had an algae bloom after using it?


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

I put some potassium gluconate powder in a gel cap and put it in the substrate right against the glass so I can see what happens. Will report the result.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

spaquarista said:


> I looked up the "recipe for hardness" and figured I should add potassium and magnesium to help the plants. Am I right to assume so?


If you have access to Wonder Shells, I've been using them for about a year now and haven't seen any signs of deficiencies in my plants (except iron, but that isn't added by Wonder Shells). I also only had to add a couple small ones to my 6.5g at the beginning and it's kept the hardness up since (it's gone slightly down with some water changes and plants using the nutrients, but still quite high). I'm coming from water with GH 0.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

jatcar95 said:


> If you have access to Wonder Shells, I've been using them for about a year now and haven't seen any signs of deficiencies in my plants (except iron, but that isn't added by Wonder Shells). I also only had to add a couple small ones to my 6.5g at the beginning and it's kept the hardness up since (it's gone slightly down with some water changes and plants using the nutrients, but still quite high). I'm coming from water with GH 0.


Unfortunately I didn't find anything like that here.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

I just wanted to share how nice the cambomba is filling out! I took this picture after replanting the trimmings of the tallest stems just now.











Edit-
So there's a funny thing that happens during the afternoon light-off siesta hours- the trumpet snails all decide to start climbing the glass! I have to admit it's a little unnerving, but I am glad I never have to worry about cleaning algae off the glass!


Here you can see the apple snail running over a couple of the trumpet snails, heh:


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

It has been a few days of potassium gluconate in the substrate. It looks fine. No anaerobic conditions. I poked the substrate and it released a few CO2 bubbles. That's about it, very uneventful. A few hundred mg isn't a problem. I can see problems if you put in a cup of the stuff in the substrate.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Out of all the people to find an aquarium (roughly 12 gallons) on the sidewalk, it had to be me! This happened a couple months ago and it served as a much needed hospital tank for a while.

Anyways, my partner is extremely handy and took it apart and rebuilt it in different dimensions so it could serve as a "pond" aesthetic - an upgrade for our shrimps (in the 5 gallon). I won't clutter this thread with this aquarium, but considering it will be very much an El Natural tank (I honestly don't know how to have any other type at this point), I'll create a dedicated Journaling thread for it as soon as I start setting it up. 

Exciting!


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

That's amazing! That would cost a fortune on the open market. (I know because I looked all over for something with a pond effect.) What are the dimensions?


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Very nice looking tank. You can have lots of emergent plants.

I guess you can find a glass shop and order some 1/4" glass panels cut to your directions and then you can put it together yourself. It's tempting.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Putting the silicon on was very tricky, so much that it started drying before taking the tape off around the edges, so it`s not the smoothest silicon finish, but we just tested it all with water and no leaks detected, what a relief!

The dimensions are roughly 50cm wide x 40cm deep x 25cm tall. The back glass is higher, creating a supporting wall for the emergent plants.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

They make corner clamps. It makes putting a box together very easy. Don‘t tighten the clamp so not to break the glass.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

So my plants have been pretty happy! My Amazon swords have shot runners EVERYWHERE! I usually cut the runners off but recently I'm keeping it wild, I especially like the ones that end up escaping the tank and flowering (there's one behind the lights that doesn't show in the pictures).

Anyways, I think the jungle vals are due for a trim, for sure.












EDIT-

I took a picture after trimming the vals and feeding the fish and decided this is a more interest shot, so people don't think I only have an aquarium with plants and nothing else!


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

So my 30g has new inhabitants - 4 black neon tetras that used to live in my 20g.

This is an interesting story on fish social dynamics I felt like sharing!

For months the neon tetra lived in my 20g, with my rummynoses and a blue dwarf gourami - this guy would bully the tetras, so naturally they stayed huddled in bottom of the tank. Eventually we realized he was specifically chasing after the black neons, the rummynose would just kind of follow them into hiding!

It was heartbreaking seeing them hide all the time, so I moved the black neon tetras into my 30 gallon. The Rosies didn't bat an eye and now not only are the black neons actually swimming around and exploring the tank - the rummynoses are doing the same!

The gourami must have taken issue with the neon's striking neon-ness because he doesn't pick on the rummynose at all - only every so often just kind of advancing into the group, dispersing them, but not going after any specific one. The rummynose are soooo much more relaxed now, actually going to the upper part of the water column.

I'm so relieved I managed to accommodate the fish into a better tank-mate situation!


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Hi everyone, I have a very weird thing appear on one of my rosy barbs fins - yesterday was the first day I noticed, around 7pm, white stringlike things on the fins. 

I freaked out, searched, learned about anchor worms, about half hour later I was about to go out to get meds but when I looked at the fish again....it was gone. All clear! 

So I calmed down, until tonight again, the stringy things appeared, same fish I think (not positive), but they soon disappeared again.

From what I read about anchor worms, nowhere do they mention that it comes and goes, but quite the opposite, they stay and can damage the scales. Also, my water temp is 24c, and apparently anchor worms prefer 26-28c? For what it`s worth.

As for the fish's behaviour, nothing changed, they`re all active and eating like normal. Don`t seem to be itching themselves either. 

Naturally, I wasn't able to get a good picture, because the barbs move around too fast.

Thanks in advance, i`m going to keep googling to see what if I find any answers.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

My guess is slime coat issue.





11.13. Slime Coat







aquariumscience.org


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

spaquarista said:


> As for the fish's behaviour, nothing changed, they`re all active and eating like normal. Don`t seem to be itching themselves either.


This is a new one for me. You'll have to ponder any changes that would induce your fish to suddenly generate a slime coat. Salt? Water change? Fertilizer addition?


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

If it is slime coat, I'm at a loss. Tonight the same thing happened, after all day in the clear (I made sure to examine them in the morning and early afternoon) suddenly around 8 pm when I go feed them, I saw one fish - Definitely a different one this time! - with little white stringy bits around the frontal fins only - thankfully, less strings than the first day I had seen it. After half an hour or so, it seemed to be gone. Yesterday my partner and I decided that it couldn't hurt to dose the tank with an anti-parasitic just in case. Granted, if it IS anchor worms, I realize this antiparasite medication wouldn't have an effect of it. It contains Green malachite and Sulfanilamide....












As for any recent changes in the tank, I literally have only done water top-offs with a new water primer - I say new, but I've been using it for a few months now. The link above about slime coat, says it canbe cause by chlorine or chloramine, other links I read says just "stress"... There are no other symptoms of slime coat disease apparent.

The water temp has been stable for ages, because it's been cold here and I put a heater in the tank when it was getting close to 18c a couple months ago. I tested the water parameters, there's no ammonia or nitrites...

So I'm going to keep observing them....see what happens I guess.

I am considering getting StressGuard, if this keeps showing up after a few more days. Depending how things look after that I guess I do a couple 30% water changes, to rid the tank of the antiparasitic med, if anything.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

So here's a picture I attempted yesterday, they are really quite tiny. Whatever it is, I think I'm managing to catch it "early" so I hope this doesn't become fatal.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I wish I could help you. Perhaps the fish generates a slime coat in response to irritation by the parasites? 
My fish disease textbook (_Fish Diseases _by Edward Noga) recommends organophosphates (OPs) such as dichlorvos or trichlorfon for treating fish with ectoparasites. For anchor worms, treatment is "prolonged immersion" in an OP bath every 7 days for 28 days. 
I have no experience with these worms, and it looks like no one else here on APC does either. 
Good luck. Fish diseases are no fun....


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

So today I managed to catch the moment it started showing up and it really does look like something is coming off the fins, not that something is attached to them. So slime coat makes sense now.

It`s way less than when I first saw it a few days ago. It`s so strange that it seems to happen on such a specific time of day, right around feeding time.

I`m going to do a small water change tomorrow, to start getting rid of the medication I have put in. I don`t know what the chances are that this will pass on it`s own, but considering the fact that it doesn't look so bad anymore, I`m going to continue to just keep an eye on it instead of trying to treat it quite yet.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Yesterday I decided to do a salt dip to try to treat my fish. I saw a bunch of different recommendations for medications for slime coat disease but I don't have access to practically any without importing (importing to Brazil 1- takes a while and 2 - expensive taxes). Hopefully it works!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Good luck! Let us know results.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

The salt dip seems to have helped but it's still not 100% gone. The amount of stringy-bits have decreased a lot in the last couple days so I'm still just observing.

If it's still around by next week, I'm wondering if I should do a second salt-dip or not? I did notice exactly one day, one other fish also had stringy bits on the fins, but then never again. So yeah, I'm over my panicking phase, because seeing pictures of how bad slime disease can get before it's fatal, I can safely say things look under control.

Here's a picture of what my tank looks like tonight. I was hoping the moss on the trunk would bloom out into a beautiful mossy bush but I see my Rosy Barbs constantly nipping at the new growth. So....free food I guess. There's a very slow growing Java Fern attached to the trunk, which I recently tried removing because I thought it was going nowhere, but then found it very firmly attached, so the rhizome is very much still growing, the leaves are just now starting to have a presence, but they too have been victims of the Rosy Barb's appetite.

Speaking of plants, I find it amusing how the two amazon plants have an established height- the one of the right always growing thinner and taller while the left stays "in it's shadows", growing stouter. As for the dwarf sag, I started trimming just the ones in the front, to see how tall the others get, in the back and around the camboba.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

spaquarista said:


> The salt dip seems to have helped but it's still not 100% gone. The amount of stringy-bits have decreased a lot in the last couple days so I'm still just observing.


Thanks for the update on the slime disease. It could be these particular Barbs just have a low level of natural immunity. It seems like you are giving them the best of care. 
Beautiful tank.


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Hi everone, quick update on my fish. Shortly after I posted, I dosed the tank with the antiparasitic I mentioned before and after a week, it finally went away for good. I also rehomed 5 ottos from the Betta tank (10g), into this 120L (30g) tank. They are loving their vast new space!

I did this because, I'm about to move out of my house and am separating from my partner (bummer...) and made him keep two of our 4 tanks. He's keeping the Betta tank and the problematic "open soil tank" I wrote about in another thread. The good news is his father has a new giant aquarium, something like 500 liters, so he's going to transfer all the plants and fish from the problematic "open soil tank" into that one. Keeping it as a traditional planted but no soil tank.

So I think I officially reached the stocking limit of this tank, but the water parameters stayed stable and barely registered the fact that there are 5 new little ottos. 

All together making it: 5 ottos, 5 rosy barbs, 5 black neons, 7 kanei corydoras, 1 bn pleco.

Hopefully the move won't be too stressful for them... the new house is only a couple km away so it should run smoothly, just a short car ride away!


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## spaquarista (Jun 23, 2021)

Hi everyone, I'm just giving the sad update that I will be slowly dismantling my aquariums...Thankfully I have found someone who can adopt all my fish. I'll be moving from Brazil back to the US soon (for grad school, yay!) but it does break my heart a little to have to break down the tanks after so much effort. 

When I'm all settled again, I definitely plan on setting up another tank for myself because I have absolutely fallen in love with this hobby!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Good luck in grad school! You can always come back into the hobby later.


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