# CO2 Canister running out too fast~!



## Daniel Morris (Apr 23, 2006)

So I'm getting a little frustrated with a CO2 issue i've been having for the last two months. I've got a rather large CO2 canisterfrom what I've gathered that other people typically use. My tank stands roughly 4 feet tall and if I'm reading it correctly its a 20 pound canister. (i'd like to get a new one because its way too big for my 55gallon, so if anyone in the washington dc area wants to trade a 5 gallon for my 55 gallon I'm game).

Well I say its too big for a 55 gallon, but thats where the problem comes in. I exchanged this tank only a month and a half ago and now the pressure is reading 0. Sure enough the canister is light and feels empty, but I read that many people can make a 5 pound canister last almost a year before having to refill. So whats the problem?

Let me back up and say that this is the second time this happened. 4 months ago I went and exchanged my tank (before that I had been using excel for a year). I brought it home, wrapped some teflon around the threads on the male piece, and screwed on my milwaukee regulator as tight as possible. 2 months later i was out of CO2. I brought it back to the place where i got it, and the guy told me 2 things were wrong- first I should put on the teflon, because that makes it worse. Its a brass regulator, and it fits onto another metal piece(not sure what metal) and that shoudl be good enough. The second problem was that it wasn't tight enough. So I make sure that its tight this time and I don't use teflon. But then the CO2 runs out in a month and a half!

I have a gass diffusor which I'm testing out and a PH monitor, so I don't think i'm using too much CO2- I think there is a leak, somewhere. I'm also using special tubing which I got from Robert at Aquabotanic, so I don't think thats the problem.

The guy at the store said somehting about checking the regulator for leaks by submerging it in soapy water. I just wanted to check with you folks first to see if you had any suggestions or ideas on how to make sure that there are no leaks.

Thanks in advance!

-Daniel


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

The CO2 regulator should have a special washer inserted between it and the fitting on the cylinder. Do you have one of these? If not, tell the gas folks to get you one intended for such use. If they don't know what you're talking about, find another company! 

You can test for leaks easily enough. Make a real soapy solution with dishwashing detergent. Take a medicine dropper and drop a drop or two at all the fittings.  If you have a leak, you will see bubbles forming from the escaping gas going through the soap solution. Do not immerse the entire regulator in soap! A 10 lb cylinder lasts me about 8 months on a 50 gal tank. That 20 pounder of yours should last you about a year and a half! You've definitely got a leak, and my money's on the regulator/washer issue. Good luck.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

The soapy water test. Take some soap water, wipe down and spray all connections. Look for any bubbles that foam up in the soap. 

You likely have a leak somewhere. Could be around the regulator or bubble counter. Are you using a plastic washer between the regulator and cylinder? The area with the tape is probably where the leak is occuring.

-John N.


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## Daniel Morris (Apr 23, 2006)

forgot to mention the washer- its on there, and i had the guy at the store fit it on for me correctly.. I guess the leak has to be in the regulator somewhere


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Unless you have a permanent seal you will need to replace the washer every time you have the cylinder filled. And there is really nothing there for it to fit on.


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## NorCal Water (Jul 29, 2006)

Rex, does the Permaseal you offer on your site take the place of the washer is question here?

Frank


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

It's also important to use Telfon tape on the cylinder thread before attaching the regulator. This will assure there is no leakage at that connection.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

houseofcards said:


> It's also important to use Telfon tape on the cylinder thread before attaching the regulator. This will assure there is no leakage at that connection.


This is wrong. Teflon tape does very little in this location. It does lubricate the threads so it it a bit easier to tighten the nut enough, but it isn't possible for it to seal off the CO2. The proper way to attach the regulator is to use a big wrench and get it as tight as you can - you have to be crushing that nylon washer, so it takes a lot of torque on the nut to do that.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

> This is wrong. Teflon tape does very little in this location. It does lubricate the threads so it it a bit easier to tighten the nut enough, but it isn't possible for it to seal off the CO2. The proper way to attach the regulator is to use a big wrench and get it as tight as you can - you have to be crushing that nylon washer, so it takes a lot of torque on the nut to do that.


I agree about the Teflon tape, I don't agree about 'crushing' the washer. IMO, there's no reason to do that. Test it for yourself with soapy water. I work in a research lab and a long time ago someone explained the reason why not to do that with CO2 cyllinders/regulator hook-ups, but I don't remember what that was.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

You can't actually tighten the nut enough to crush that solid disc of nylon, but that's the image you need to have in mind. A flat gasket only works if the force the nut exerts on the gasket is greater than the force the pressurized gas exerts. My experience with my CO2 tank is that once the gasket is contacted as you tighten the nut, you can only barely turn the nut any further. When I removed the regulator for maintenance I noticed that the gasket was deformed from the tightening. I reinstalled it with the same gasket, because I couldn't find the replacement, and tightened it with a big wrench again - still no leaks. Just don't do this thinking you have to baby the nut - go easy so as not to damage it. Instead, use a 12" long wrench and pull hard on it.

I now have one of Rex's permanent O-ring sealed thingamabobs for the next time I reinstall the regulator, so I don't expect I will be using that "man - sized" wrench again.


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## Jonesy (Jul 8, 2005)

As Hoppy said, it is possible to deform the washer (or O-ring depending on what type of seal you are using) and the deformation can be a cause of leakage. You don't have one of the fiber type washer seals do you? If you do, throw it away and get a proper washer or O-ring seal.

Another source of leaks can occur if the flat metal surfaces of the regulator and/or cylinder valve are scored or scratched across the face. If this is the case the only real option is replacement of the damaged equipment, either the regulator stem (you can buy replacement stems) or the cylinder valve (again replacements are available).

Another leak source is the diaphragm in the regulator, although this usually only occurs on older regulators (did you say how old your regulator is?). Again replacements parts are available. 

The soapy water test is a great leak indicator at joints and fittings but a leaky diaphrapgm is little harder to test. You should also check all you fittings on the delivery side (bubble counter, solenoid valve, tubing connections etc..) just in case the issue is not with the regulator.

Yet another leak source can be the valve packing on the tank itself. CGA valves are meant to be fully open or fully closed and in this state the stem seats itself at the top or bottom packings. If the valve is only partially opened, gas can leak past the stem packing and escape. Again this is related to the age of the valve, the older and more used the valve is the more worn and leakier the packings become, but even newer valve stems can leak if left partially open.

Good luck

edit: spelling


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Teflon tape serves no sealing purpose on a CGA 320 valve and is actually not recommended when using things like needle valves and check valves. The tape can and will shred and those little shreds can plug the tiny orfices we work with.

The permaseal that I have will replace the washer.


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