# Some Q's on the planning fo a 3L...



## intotherain (May 27, 2006)

Hi all!

I've been keeping planted high tech tanks for a year and a half now. I recently heard of diana walstad and her natrual tanks and I just loved the idea! I would like to start with a small 3L natural nano as a gift to my dad.
My planned setup is:
1. 20X15X10 or a 15X15X15 glass cube (3 liter)

2. office lamp with EL bulb of 10-8 Watts 6400K or higher.

3. DIY substrate: 2cm lower level containing;

35% pumice or peat
25% humus
20% coconut fibers
15% sawdust
5% red loam(red dirt also knowen as Hamra)
a pinch of osmocote

2cm upper level containing:
crushed quartz or basalt

4. fish: 1 betta crown tail and 10 cherry shrimps

5.RO/DI water( my father has alot of that in his office)

Q's:

1. is that too much Watts or too less?
2. would I need sun light also?
3. I won't have any pumps in the cube, will that be ok?
4. how much of water should I change? (don't forget we are talking about RO/DI water)
5. will betta and cherry shrimp coexist?
6. will betta pellts/flakes be good for shrimps also?
7. how much feeding? 1 time a day 7-8 grains?
8. how long should I keep my light on?
9. water temp: i'm from israel, in the summer it gets to 90-100 F (34-38C) , but it will be in my father office which as AC on 24/7 so I don't really know what the temp will be. how problematic is that?
10. what plants could you recommand? I was thinking: HC,moss,1 red crypt,Ammannia Gracilis(will it be possible to make this grow out of the tank?),Vallisneria americana,rotela...
please recommand me good plants to keep and also I'm looking into a aquarium plant that could get out of the water so to get some CO2(I don't like floating ones..)
11. the cube won't have a lid, will that be a problem with betta?

if anyone could please post some similer sized tanks so I will get some ideas that will be great. also any type of comments will be great!

thanks guys!

uri.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I see problems right off the bat. 

You want to use unfertilized soil. A slow-release fertilizer like Osmocote may create long-term algae problems.

Your soil recipe is almost entirely organic matter and highly decomposable (sawdust, YIKES!). It's going to decompose rapidly and go anaerobic. I would go out and buy soil that people use to grow houseplants. Or you could layer the bottom with peat and then a layer of the red loam. Don't mix the layers. I'd also do a bottle test first.

RO water is totally deficient in essential plant nutrients like potassium, calcium, magnesium, and bicarbonates. If your tapwater is very hard, you may want to dilute it with RO to get a GH of 8-12, but 100% RO water would be a disaster. 

I would read my book before setting up this tank. Or give your Dad a copy of the book. It's available in Europe from Internet booksellers.


----------



## Grayum (Jun 14, 2006)

I have almost the exact same setup, but my tank has a divider in the middle. I have most of the info on setting up the tank along with the problems that come out of my methods. Might help if you are doings something similar.

AquaBlog

Hope that helps.

Graham


----------



## intotherain (May 27, 2006)

dwalstad said:


> I see problems right off the bat.
> 
> You want to use unfertilized soil. A slow-release fertilizer like Osmocote may create long-term algae problems.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your response Diana! I want to get a copy of your book as soon as possible but I still didn't find a cheap way to import it because it is very expensive in israeli terms...
The recipe I wrote is one that alot of people use in israel on high tech tanks and on some low tech tanks, we had great results with it so far and if you like I could link to some tanks and explain what there are using..
I don't understand whats the difference between topsoil and substrate??
I will buy some poting soil tomarrow and I will ask what is in it.. I will add a very small amount of laterite and humus by small amount I mean:both will be 5% of the mix. but if you think I don't need to add anything then I will just use the potting soil.
now about the RO water, israel has a very hard water(7-5-7.8 PH) so that's why I wanted to use it..I have some rain water that I could use do you think that could work or I should just mix RO with tap?
I bought today the glass vase and lamp:
vase is 4.5L so it will have water volume of about 4L, the lamp is an EL spiral of 13W 6500K... do you think its good light or too much/little?
Do you think it will be ok to not have any pumps?
I thought about maybe putting one bamboo in there, do I need to plant it or not?

thank you so much diana! 
looking forward to your response,
uri.

BTW
if 13W is too strong then maybe I should use some humus after all?


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

intotherain said:


> Thank you so much for your response Diana! I want to get a copy of your book as soon as possible but I still didn't find a cheap way to import it because it is very expensive in israeli terms...


I realize that my book is prohibitively expensive for foreign hobbyists. To remedy this, I have prepared an e-book version of _Ecology of the Planted Aquarium_. It is at the publishers now and should be out in a few weeks. Cost will be $15 for one computer download and one printing.


----------



## intotherain (May 27, 2006)

dwalstad said:


> I realize that my book is prohibitively expensive for foreign hobbyists. To remedy this, I have prepared an e-book version of _Ecology of the Planted Aquarium_. It is at the publishers now and should be out in a few weeks. Cost will be $15 for one computer download and one printing.


That will be great! I can't wait.

Diana, The nano I'm planing is a suprise gift to my father, He has his birthday on sunday(10/12) so could you please have a look at the Q's I wrote and help me so I could finish it till sunday?

thank you so much diana.

uri.


----------



## Satirica (Feb 13, 2005)

I'm not Diana, but I'll offer some answers while you wait for her response. 

I don't understand whats the difference between topsoil and substrate??

"Substrate" is a general term meaning whatever you put at the bottom of the tank and would include topsoil, gravel, sand, Aquasoil, etc. Topsoil means exactly what it says -- the top layer of soil on the ground. It generally is different than the layer of soil below the top, which is often called subsoil. Ordinarily, top soil is a different texture and color than subsoil, and tends to contain organic matter which is lacking in subsoil. In the US you can buy bags of topsoil.​
now about the RO water, israel has a very hard water(7-5-7.8 PH) so that's why I wanted to use it..I have some rain water that I could use do you think that could work or I should just mix RO with tap?

"Hard water" is a term that generally describes GH or general hardness, rather than pH which measures acidity. Your water is slightly alkaline. Often, but not always, alkaline water is hard. (I have alkaline water but it is not hard.) If you find that you have to scrub a lot of soap scum or deposits from bathtubs, showers and sinks then you have hard water. Hard water is generally good water to grow plants in. I would not use RO or rain water -- your tap water sounds fine.​
I bought today the glass vase and lamp:
vase is 4.5L so it will have water volume of about 4L, the lamp is an EL spiral of 13W 6500K... do you think its good light or too much/little?

That might be a bit too much light; it's hard to say until you try it. A lot of the light given off by spiral bulbs bounces around on the interior of the spiral rather than making it into the tank. If it turns out to be too much light you might be able to raise the light higher from the water surface to "tune" it.​
Do you think it will be ok to not have any pumps?

Yes. A 4.5l tank is small enough that even slight temperature differences in the tank will cause natural circulation. I have a 4.1l tank without a pump or filter and plants grow fine in it.​
I thought about maybe putting one bamboo in there, do I need to plant it or not?

You can plant it if the leaves will be above water. If you are talking about the same plant that is sold in the US called "Lucky Bamboo" -- generally a 2cm wide stem that is straight then spirals with long, narrow green leaves at the top -- then the plant is Draceana sanderiana, which is not an aquatic plant. It prefers to be rooted and grown in soil. I have never tried getting one to root, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.​


----------



## intotherain (May 27, 2006)

Satirica said:


> I'm not Diana, but I'll offer some answers while you wait for her response.
> 
> I don't understand whats the difference between topsoil and substrate??
> 
> ...


thank you so much liz, great answers!
ok, first off:
the water in israel is HARD WATER I'm sorry that I mentioned PH by mistake. We have to clean our kettle very often from all the rocks built up 
we also have in our water chlorine and chloramine so I have a couple of things I could do:
1.use seachem prime to get the chlorine and chloramine out. But I don't know if that's ok in netrual tank and what effects will it have.
2.let the water sit for 2 weeks(chloramine will evaporate only after 2 weeks).
which is a problem because like I said: I need it by sunday

so what do you think?

about the soil thing:
I will go to my neighborhood nursery and ask for the plainest potting soil, I just need to verify that there isn't any organic matter or fretz in it right?
I think its made with peat though...:-?

I hope tomorrow it will all be done.


----------



## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

Some organic matter is good, I add some compost to my topsoil to increase the organic mater level. the decomposition of the organic mater is one source of CO2 for the plants. any non fertilized potting soil should be fine.


----------



## intotherain (May 27, 2006)

thanks! 

what about the water? could I use seachem prime?


----------



## Satirica (Feb 13, 2005)

Yes, you can use Prime. Hope your dad likes his gift!


----------



## intotherain (May 27, 2006)

Satirica said:


> Yes, you can use Prime. Hope your dad likes his gift!


   I know he will!! thanks guys! I will add pics! I promise!


----------



## Aquatic addict (Apr 14, 2006)

Yes, I believe many natural tank keepers (myself included) use tap water conditioners with no ill-effects.


----------



## intotherain (May 27, 2006)

the tank is almost ready now. I added the plants and the fish and shrimps will come in tomarrow.

here are some pics..(I'm not a very good photographer )



















I will try taking anohter photo tomarrow so you could see what plants I have in there...

good night


----------

