# My progress with EI (nitrates and no red)



## Skizhx (Oct 12, 2010)

So I've been using EI for a few months now, and so far things aren't going too badly.

I have had some minor GSA coming and going, but that's really not a bother for me, and my plants are looking great.

This is a huge improvement over the deficiencies and algae blooms I had before starting EI.

However, when following EI guidelines which recommended 1/4 tsp of KNO3 3x a week, my nitrate readings were at around 40ppm. Not a comfortable level for a tank containing fish and inverts.

Normally without dosing nitrates at all, this tank is very stable at around 5-10ppm NO3.

My tap water source contains 5ppm NO3 according to my API test kit, which I tested for accuracy using distilled water and adding KNO3 to create known concentrations. I measure my dry ferts using a 0.01g scale with a 0.02g margin of error.

I'm running 65W CF 6700K lighting alongside 2x18W T5 6700K (total 101W) over a standard 29gal aquarium. Bulbs were last changed in November.

Actual water volume is not known, however given that my water change buckets are 5gal, I estimate it to be holding around 25gal, and for sake of better safe than sorry, I treat it as if it was holding 20gal. My lights come on at 8am, shut off at 2pm, come back on at 3pm, and then shut off at 10pm, totaling a 13 hour photo period (that's actually longer than I realized or intended, hmmm).

Drop checker with standard 4dKH solution indicates adequate CO2 levels. Plants are pearling fantastically within a few hours of lights-on (I run an airstone at night on a timer, otherwise my plants suck up all the available O2 and my fish start gasping at the surface). 

My aquarium contains cryptocoryne balansae and wendtii. Blyxa japonica, java and windelov fern, hygrophila polysperma 'rosanervig', and some frogbit at the surface.

I am running two eheim 2213 filters.

I keep on top of my water changes (50% every week), and I'm careful about how much I feed. I have plenty of snails to scavenge whatever does get left on the bottom, and the snail population has not gone out of control, so I assume that overfeeding isn't the issue. Since setting up over a year ago, my aquarium has remained free of disease, and fish are showing good colouration, activity, and feeding habbits. So things are good overall.

So why the high nitrates? Is it simply not enough light? Are the EI guidelines just calculated for faster and larger growing plants? 

In response to the nitrates, my modified dosing regime is:
0.51g KNO3 x3/week
0.97g K2SO4 x3/week
0.29g KH2PO4 X3/week

0.18g trace + 2mL seachem iron x3/week

My trace mix is identical to CSM+B except slightly higher in I believe manganese content, and no magnesium or calcium content.

With this dosing schedule, my nitrates seem to stay at 10ppm. So I think I could get away with dosing more than that, but I'm going to give it another week before I decide to adjust any of the doses again.

Despite all this success and positive results, my rotala rotundifolia shows only a faint orange near the tops, and my hygro rosanervig is green with a bit of yellow-ish orange on the tops. I have not been able to achieve any red in my plants at all, except when the rotala reaches the surface it develops a bit of bright red. Knowing the details of my tank and dosing, what could I do to achieve a nice red in these plants? Do I just need more lighting? The plants are quite healthy looking and growing nicely otherwise.

Input is appreciated. I tried to provide as much relevant information as thoroughly as possible, so sorry for the length of this post. All help or input is appreciated.


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## fishingkid1 (Apr 4, 2010)

I've seen a few instances that the Rotofoundilla does turn a little more red, but that's really rare. Macandra would be the one to really get reds from. 

In my tank, my rotala only gets a reddish-orange at the very top of the tank. -Dosing modified EI + added Fe. 

Limnophila aromatica is a plant that doesn't like nitrates that much to turn red. I keep the nitrates around 10ppm and it seems to be getting a nicer red color. The lower I keep nitrates the better this plant gets red, it diminishes pretty quick if the nitrates raise above 15-20ppm


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## freshyleif (Jan 9, 2008)

I have had the same problem and for me the solution was simple. I stopped adding NO3 and just use the K2SO4, KH2PO4 and CSM+B. I have to use a little more than EI recommends but that is what works for me. The real difference maker is not just keeping NO3 lower but knowing that it also has to be in good ratio to your other fetz. You might try just adding No3 on your second or third dosing. And last My Rotala rotundifolia will only get pinkish not red, as mentioned above other plants will get much more red.


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## bosmahe1 (May 14, 2005)

You might find this thread interesting as it pertains to NO3 levels. It sounds like your modifications should be fine, EI isn't written in stone, it's a starting point. I wouldn' agonize over seeing 40 ppm nitrate though, you are still way below toxic levels, even for inverts. Anyway, take a read of this:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/f...igh-nitrates-cause-metabolic-disturbance.html


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

What is your PO4 level ? I will increase the PO4 dosing if you get GSA. I keep around 30 ppm of NO3 and 3-5 ppm of PO4.


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

One more suggestion: you can stress out your plants not only with N limitation, but just messing with them. Another cheap thing to try is trimming your plants harshly and regularly (see GGhori's thread in General). In my experience this can get nice colors (and induce flowers) from many normally 'green' species, like most Rotalas and Blyxa japonica. 

(With Rotalas, trim off the top and leave the bottoms. With Blyxa, try to get the branching growth as close to the base as possible. Don't uproot what will be the bases of your future fuller bushes.)

I get that this might sound crazy, but it's free to try. And your plants will generally look nicer after grow out, too. I think you'll be surprised by overall appearance - including color - if you keep doing what you're doing, too. I've some B. japonica example pics if you want them.


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## THE_MOTHER_JEWELS (Feb 10, 2011)

> I've seen a few instances that the Rotofoundilla does turn a little more red, but that's really rare. .
> 
> In my tank, my rotala only gets a reddish-orange at the very top of the tank. -Dosing modified EI + added Fe.
> 
> , , , The lower I keep nitrates the better this plant gets red, it diminishes pretty quick if the nitrates raise above 15-20ppm


This is not what happens @ my house



Skizhx said:


> In response to the nitrates, my modified dosing regime is:
> 0.51g KNO3 x3/week
> 
> Despite all this success and positive results, my rotala rotundifolia shows only a faint orange near the tops, and my hygro rosanervig is green with a bit of yellow-ish orange on the tops. I have not been able to achieve any red in my plants at all, except when the rotala reaches the surface it develops a bit of bright red. .


It is possible to grow red rotala , I also add KN03 to my aquarium; just like you do (although I add 45*X* more than you)
.
.


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## countcoco (Dec 28, 2010)

IMO, you should stop dosing KNO3 and use something else as a source of potassium. The 5-10 ppm of NO3 that your filter is producing naturally should be fine for all of your plants.

EI is generally most successful in tanks packed with fast growing plants. In your tank, dosing via the standard regimen will likely lead to an overabundance of luxury nutrients, which often washes out red coloration (except for iron).


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## Skizhx (Oct 12, 2010)

I had some Blyxa Japonica that I planted that floated up to the surface. I didn't really need those stems so I left them. They are now a deep red at the surface.

My hygro rosanervig however, even at the surface, is orange-ish at best.

A good point was brought up about the nutrience ratio.

At the modified dosage regime, my plants are still growing fine, and my nitrate levels seem to be holding steady at around 15ppm.

I'm sort of starting to get the impression that in a tank stocked with fish, KNO3 is really only dosed to keep the appropriate nutrient ratio.

Would this be a reasonably way to think about it?

I was also advised to change half my 6700K lighting to 10,000K to encourage red colouration. Any opinions on that?


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## countcoco (Dec 28, 2010)

Skizhx said:


> I had some Blyxa Japonica that I planted that floated up to the surface. I didn't really need those stems so I left them. They are now a deep red at the surface.
> 
> My hygro rosanervig however, even at the surface, is orange-ish at best.
> 
> ...


10,000 K bulbs tend to emit more light on the blue end of the spectrum. You should purchase a bulb tailored towards aquatic plant growth, like the geiseman aquaflora.


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