# 3' planted tank journal



## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

Im in the process of setting up my new planted tank would like like to hear members advice in setting it up and all the options that are available to me.

The tank is bellow:










I have got a 150w MH for it and an ADA bulb, as i have always wanted to try using a MH to see the difference. Also got pressurised co2.

Substrate is Tourmaline BC, Power Special Sand & Amazonia Aqua Soil (which will arrive today )

The basic layout is going to be Dragon stone and HC.

What im still debating is fertlising and what to use, i have ada ferts (step 1,2 & special lights), the range of flourish, as well as pmdd, what would your choice be, as ive heard of algea problems with ada ferts, although i have not experienced them in my other ada fertilised tank.

For lighting im going to keep the cycle at about 6-7hrs a day to start to minimise algae development.

Il update things as it progresses

Advice, thoughts?

Many thanks,
James


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

I think you're going to have algae battles here and there with any fertilizer brand you chose, so go with whatever feels easiest to administer to the tank. The tank and setup parts sound pretty good. Looking forward to see how you put it all together. 

-John N.


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

Cheers, OK il have a think about it, and hopefully il catch any algae before it gets out of hand.

Ive got the mh up and background in. Substrate and stones still not arrived but should be with me tomorrow










James


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

Stones and substrate arrived today 

This is what i have come up with with alot of playing around

Any thoughts, got any ideas for better positioning etc?


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

Good looking start...is that Ohku (sp) stones?


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## gabeszone (Jan 22, 2006)

Nice looking rock! What kind of rocks are those? Cant wait to see more pictures!


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

Thanks,

As far as i know it called dragon stone, that is what it was advertised as where i bought it.

Substrate needs leveling in places, think thats the rock layout now.. or v close to it, as im limited to what i got sent

James


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

The path-way might be a little too centered. Other than that very, very nice. Any thoughts on plant selection? I would go with the ADA line of ferts...I've heard just the opposite as far as an algae problem.


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

I see what you mean about the path way, il try and shift it left by bringing the right section over a little to see what it looks like, this will also give a bit more space for the right side, as it pretty tight against the glass

Im planning on using just HC as i have always wanted to do a minimalistic tank & HC should make it look even larger due to its size. 

Hopefully getting about 10 nerites to help clean up the stones & Microrasbora Galaxy in the near future.

Ferts wise, think i will go with the ADA range, as ive had good results with them already, and i may as well keep with the ADA theme, just that i have heard about algae problems with them, so was not sure. Will be happy to read members thoughts on fertlising

James


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

I'd recommend against nerites. They do a great job with algae, but the eggs they lay are next to impossible to get rid of. The little white spots everywhere get annoying after a while. Just about any variety of shrimp would be better IMO.

Nice layout BTW. I'll be interested to see how this progresses.

As far as ferts are concerned...... there are many roads to Rome. Plants need light, water, CO2, nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, calcium, magnesium, iron, and trace elements. How you get there is entirely up to you.


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

Looks very nice, there's a flow to it that's pleasing. 
I think there's good consideration to the height of the HC later.

I'd just level the Aquasoil in front and pad a bit more to the back corners.


Looks like a great start.


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

When designing hardscape, keep a mind to not only what looks good, but also to what will look good when the plants have grown in. Right now, I feel as if there is not enough room for plants. Try to open up more space for plants, and it'd be especially better if you could get the plant elements and hardscape elements to integrate better.

Alright, I hope that statement made sense . . .


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

Thanks for the comments all,

regarding the nerites, i was not aware of this, however i would still like to get a few perhaps as they will sort out any algae on the rocks pretty quick, perhaps 10 was a bit over the top, but im sure a few will be beneficial, if it gets out of hand ive got a few other tanks where they can be useful.

The filter i have running has come off my discus tank and is mature, so hopefully the nh4 from the aquasoil will go away quickly so i can add some shrimp & other algae crew ASAP.

Ive managed to flaten the substrate, filled the tank and got the filter running.

Now im waiting for the HC & ADA MH bulb which will hopefully be with me soon

James


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

'Right now, I feel as if there is not enough room for plants.'

This is a concern of mine too, as i have only set the hardscape today, im looking at it alot trying to work out what would look better. Im going to play around with the stones and try and open up areas so i can get more planting space.

James


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## rbittman (Apr 27, 2006)

I love your setup. To me, there may be a kind of "heavy" feeling to it though. I think I mean there are too many large rocks. It would seem more balanced if not all the rocks were so large. You may not have control over their size though. You could consider fewer total rocks. I agree path should be off center.
Second the motion on ADA ferts. Having gone all kinds of ways on fertilizing, I see the least algae and the least hassle using them.
Ditto on the Nerites snails too: the white eggs are a bummer. One has to use razor blades to get them off. You won't like it. Other snails work too (regular pond, ramshorn) and it you don't overfeed, they don't overmultiply.


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

Cheers,

I think il be getting rid of the far left rock and keeping the three on the left in a similar layout and shifting them over a little, this will give more planting space on the left/centre and hopfully reduce that heavy look that has been mentioned. Dont really want to start smashing the rocks incase it ruins the larger pieces.

I have to really work with what i got sent, so out of all the rocks these were the best suited, but i think by getting rid of that far left one it will feel less heavy and open it up for more HC during the next water change.

Think il leave the nerites alone then, as the tank is so 'bare' these eggs could be a problem.. looks like it will be lots of shrimp & some ottos in the future.

Thats two now for the ada ferts.. ive got plenty of it, so il give it a go when i start dosing.

James


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

It's rather difficult since the tank does nto have much front-to-back depth.


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

I have a plan 

James


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Regarding the nerites - I have 4 in a 46g tank. The eggs they leave are there forever. They're hard as diamond, easily visible, and cannot be removed except with exceptional effort........ just so you know.


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

cool, im going to stay away from them, going to be lots of shrimp 

Also going to take around an inch of either side of the foreground and move some back, and to the corners, as well as getting rid of that rock on the left and getting some space between the rocks on the right so i can get a nice bit of HC between

James


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Great start James. Nice to see another UK fellow on here.

To help avoid early algae issues I have had good results with not stocking any animals until the plants are mature, this way you can pump loads of CO2 in there which algae seems to hate. Obviously you'll need to plant heavily from the outset too. 

How many pots of HC will you be going for? I went for five in my 3 gal. This gave a good coverage and I'm near a full carpet after 10 days or so. The Tropica pots from Aqua Essentials are top notch.

I look forward to seeing this progress.


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

Cheers George,

I will take your advice on board, im sure the HC will like that.

Ive ordered 4 x 6x6" of HC from a reputable ebayer, and they should be withme soon, so hopefuly il be able to get a good coverage from the outset. Ive used tropica HC in my nano, and they are very good, fingers crossed these are too..

James


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Good idea on the HC mats, I dare say better value than buying loads of pots. You may get a little die-off as the plants adjust to their submersed state (assuming it's been grown emersed). I just trimmed off the affected leaves, there were surprisingly few actually.

Look forward to seeing more photos.


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

Have played around with the layout,

Moved some pieces of rock and added another 3lt of aquasoil, as well as lowering the foreground substrate and bringing up the rear. Also tried to create more planting space throughtout the tank, as well as between the rocks.

Comparison









Higher angle









Left Side









Right Side









Let me know your thoughts, thanks,

James


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

I think it's a good improvement.

Curious though, why was the tank filled? Testing leaks?


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

Cheers, im 95% happy with the layout, just the positioning of the smallest rock on the left looks a little out of place..i may also bring up the one next to it a little.

Yep, i was testing for leaks, and also wanted to reduce the amount of nutriants given off by the AS before i started to plant and turn the MH on, so im doing regular water changes at the moment.

I also thought my HC would be with me by now..

James


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

Got the HC today, and just planted it. Got a good coverage, just hoping that it survives ok, as a couple of bits were not as healthy as they could be. I do have some more that is floating on the surface, which il be finishing off tomorrow, as its all little bits.

Here it is this evening



















Substrate needs to be leveled again, which il do when the hc is established

James


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Nice coverage. I hope it takes well for you James.


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

Yep, i thought i got a good coverage too. The HC was in pretty good condition considering it came from Malaysia, they also gave me 5 mats and i paid for 4, which was useful as i threw about one away.

The ADA MH bulb finally arrived too, and there seems to be quite an improvement in the light, considering the bulb i had was an arcadia 14k.

Co2 is around 100-120ppm, dosed some excel, ph 6ish, kh5, bit of no3 still

James


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Nice quantity of HC. This should fill in quickly. Any plans for other plants? IMO (which admittedly isn't worth much), I'd love to see a little grouping of hairgrass sprouting from the rock groupings with a few Cyperus helferi strands coming up behind the right side.


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

Hope it does fill in quickly.. it has started to spread a bit, which is a good sign and its pearling still, so hopefully i shouldnt have too many problems..

Regarding the hairgrass, it was one of my intial thoughts for the tank, but i was not sure if i would add it.. I do have it in my nano, with the same mixture of HC and hairgrass, but i wasnt sure if it would be correct for this layout, my nano has alot more going on, with moss, hc and hairgrass in the foreground and it works well, where as this tank is quite minimalistic, and hairgrass does tend to takeover once established :-k 

I do like the sound of it, what do people think?

James


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

I would stick with the HC for now, until it's established. See how it goes. Then experiment with adding hairgrass or other plants once/if you get bored.

How's the ADA MH looking. I bet those greens are awesome eh? Any pics?


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

The ADA MH is awesome, the greens are brilliant with it, by far the best light ive had on a tank

Here is a pic:










The HC has improved since i got it, so thats a good sign 

James


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## OregonFish (Aug 26, 2006)

I really like your layout ! keep it up !


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## splatt3 (Jan 9, 2007)

james, 
any update on your tank, its been a few months. i bet the HCs covered the substrate by now.


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

It has been a few months, HC takes ages to grow _right_.

I had some diatomic algea for the first month, so i lost a fair bit of HC and it didnt grow much.

This picture is from this week some time, and the HC is pretty much covered, just a few bits which need some filling in, but in around a month it should be ready. The sides will get trimmed down in around a week, i have trimmed the centre part once since setup around a week ago and its nice and compact.

The two smallest stones need to be cleaned as i never got round to doing them, on the last clean, but apart from that the plants / tank / fish & shrimp are all happy, so just waiting for the HC to get how id like it.










(Before a trim)









When its ready il get some nice closeups of the HC and tank in general.

James


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## splatt3 (Jan 9, 2007)

wow it filled in pretty good. good job. nice tank.


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

Been thinking of adding a single background plant

At the moment my first choice is Elelocharis Vivipara, second, dwarf vallis (both tropica ones)

Thinking it will help with a small algae problem on the rocks, and give somewhere for the fish to hide, as well as another focal point

This sort of idea:










Would really like to get some feedback on this

Cheers


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## Afroturf (Apr 15, 2004)

I agree with you james i think that your tank does need another plant adding to give it more depth/interest. Of the two plants you listed i'd go for te vallis if its vallis nana your thinking of i've got some in my tank and the only vallis i'd advise on getting as the most others imo get to big, nana quickly sends out new runners but these take a few weeks to put any tall growth on for some reason, i brought them from AE i think it is more graceful than the eleocharis wich can look a little messy some times. 

Have you thought of adding any other plants to the scape i think some blyxa would look great placed amongst some of the rocks.

Great start to the tank looking forward to seeing it develope.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

It is looking great James, the growth is superb but I agree with you. I can't believe you've been so restrained with it for so long!

Personally I'd go for something a bit different to give the same effect with a twist. How about these?
Tropica

Long thin leaves, but from a nice bulb!

Or these?
Tropica
Tropica

I just think why pick the same old plants when you have such a great opportunity to try something different? The last two I haven't grown (tried to order the 'peruensis', but Tropica sent Richard something else instead!), but I used to have the Crinum and it was great.

I'd also be tempted to put a really cracking feature plant in, probably just behind the big rock, slightly right of centre. Something with lots of red, but I get the feeling that wouldn't be the effect you're looking for in this tank?


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Looks good James.

Is it me or is the small rock on the left too upright, a little distracting?

Ed - the links don't work, they all go to the Tropica homepage.


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

Thanks v much for hte coments



> some blyxa would look great placed amongst some of the rocks.


The only thing i would put between the rocks would be some dwarf hairgrass, would want to keep things on the small side



> I just think why pick the same old plants when you have such a great opportunity to try something different?


You make a very vallid point, those links like george says takes you to the tropica home, what were you thinking of?



> Looks good James.
> 
> Is it me or is the small rock on the left too upright, a little distracting?


Cheers, it is failry upright, could have a go playing around with it. That one will be coming out to be spot treated with phyton git as an experiment.

Thanks for the input, going to have to put my thinking cap on..


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

That'll teach me to cut and paste and not check the links! :doh:

These should link to the product cards! Hopefully... 

Crinum calamistratum
Tropica

Echinodorus parviflorus 'peruensis'
Tropica

Echinodorus uruguayensis
Tropica

In hindsight, I don't think either of the Echinodorus will have as narrow leaves as their Tropica pictures, but maybe someone who's grown them will be able to confirm. I think there are also a couple of very narrow leaved tall crypts, but I couldn't find them on the Tropica site.

Definitely think the Criunm would look amazing though, it's slightly crinkled leaves would be a major plus IMHO.


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

C. calamistratum would grow too long IME/O. I had leaves trailing across the surface in my 20" tall tank. It is also a fairly slow grower, and as it grows from a bulb its leaves all grow from the same spot, so you'd need lots of plants. I don't think it would look delicate enough if James is going for the zen experience, which I think the HC and rocks are portraying ATM.

A tall Eleocharis sp. would be better as a background giving a better sense of scale, with possibly acicularis as accents around the rocks. Vivapari has been mentioned but I've no personal experience of this.

B. japonica may work well too as accents, as suggested. And Vallisneria nana as a background.


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

I would have to agree with George that its going to get too big, ive made that mistake before..

I think the single background plant is the way to go, perhaps even two large groups of stem plants would even work in the corners, like rotala green or similar, but the only thing i want to make sure of is that the plants grow upright and not all lean toward the centre where the light is coming from, hence v nana or vivpara could work.

I am pretty stumped on what to do next..

James


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

Been having a look what is available, if i am going to narrow it down to 4 plants it would be:

Vivpara
V Nana
Juncus repens
Cyperus helferi

I think my choice is either the vivpara or helferi, and i think the vivpara is probably the best suited to the tank

James


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Fair enough guys, just wanted to offer an alternative. You're dead right George, mine reached the surface in my tank, but I liked it!

I think James, your gut reaction was probably right and you should go for the hairgrass. If you've pictured them in your mind in there and liked it, give them a go, you can always change your mind and try something else if they don't work!


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

I think our right Ed, I decided earlier today on the vivipara, i ordered it this afternoon, and should be with me by the end of next week, done through greenline, they will be ordering it in on monday. We will see what its like 

James


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Good luck with the vivapari James, IMO more appropriate than helferi for sure. 

I don't think I've ever seen vivapari in the UK (successfully in a 'scape, at least). You could start a trend over here!

Ed, my friend - Apologies if I came across overbearing there re. plant choice. After re-reading my comments I could have been interpreted that way.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

gf225 said:


> Ed, my friend - Apologies if I came across overbearing there re. plant choice. After re-reading my comments I could have been interpreted that way.


No mate, not at all. Didn't feel that way at all. Don't worry about it!
If we all thought exactly the same we'd end up with a load of identical tanks wouldn't we and that'd be boring!


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

Well you still wont see it in a scape yet, as i decided to go for the tropica Eleocharis acicularis as its less work and also lower.. hopefully it will be the right choice, will be with me on Tuesday

Here is a pic after a big trim, one or two more will get it at its best



















James


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## slickwillislim (Oct 11, 2005)

That looks pretty sweet. I really like the rocks. The HC also looks very healthy. I really like this simple layout. 

The only comment I really have is that the fish could be smaller. IMO they look slightly to big for the tank and they, for me, ruin the effect. If you use smaller fish than your tank looks bigger. Thats just my personal opinion and other than that I really like it.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Hehe, I went back a few posts and saw that I recommended that you try E. acicularis with the HC. Having gained a bit more experience with both since then, I'd just like to leave a caution.

The E. acicularis will certainly look nice, and will grow and do fine. I'm not sure it's the best species to mix with HC though. It will be incredibly invasive and send its runners all over the place. After a while, the only way to limit the spread is to uproot everything and pick it apart manually. They don't really make good neighbors. It knows no boundaries.

You might want to try it, but limit it to one small area for a few weeks to see if you like the way it spreads. That way it won't be too traumatic if you have to dig it up.

For accent, I'd recommend B. japonica (perhaps a tad large for this 'scape) or maybe even Hemianthus micranthemoides. If done carefully, the two Hemianthus species look pretty cool together.

C. calamistratum would be far too large. Cyperus helferi would be ok for the corners, but maybe too big for between the rocks. There are a few smaller crypts that might look nice too. Anubias nana 'petite' would also look nice.


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

Thanks Slick

The fish in there are galaxy rasboras which are pretty small and some full sized harlequins, perhaps the latter are a little large, but they do split the tank really well as the galaxies like to stay low.

Been thinking about the evasiveness of the eleocharis, perhaps i could border off in the substrate the area where i want it, and hopefully that could limit the runners? With some sort of plastic strip around 1.5" thick, should work??

I think after i have planted the eleocharis i wont be adding anything else to this tank.

James


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## nellis (May 6, 2006)

I second guaiac_boy's call on H. micranthemoides... it looks brilliant next to H.c. I also would agree on his warning against E. acicularis. I had ONE small bunch, 3 or 4 stems max, in my 15 gallon, and within a few months this is what it looked like, completely choking out my scape.

Before: you can see the one clump in front of the rock.

Less than 4 months later: the E. triandra had been almost completely swallowed.

I think it can work in your scape, but you'll probably have to use a substrate divider.

Nice work, by the way.

-Nate


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## Aeropars (Apr 20, 2006)

James, How many Kilo of Dragon Rock did you buy from Aqua Essentials to get that effect?


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

That is impressive..

I have a load of tropica E. acicularis floating in the tank at the moment, so i will definatley be doing some sort of border.. Thinking on sacrificing a bucket i have to use, and will be going down 3" or so which will just leave surface runners, which are alot easier to deal with.

Will be posting soon with an update of what it looks like.

James


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

I got one 20kg box from AE

Got all you see, plus a few smaller pieces which have been used elsewhere. Not a bad amount really. 

James


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## james 3200 (Jan 23, 2006)

E. acicularis added. Im am happy with the look, it softens the background quite a bit. Looking forward to seeing it grow a little taller in the corners.

Also added substrate dividers at least 4" down so hopefully that will leave me to just deal with the surface runners, and on most of the areas i planted, the rocks are proving to be good at blocking the growth.. so far

Anyway, here is a pic










James


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## melen head (Apr 13, 2007)

Any Updates (or even better... Pics!)


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