# creek plant ID?



## Gone missing (Aug 26, 2017)

Hope somebody might know this plant? 
found in the edge of a spring fed pond/pool growing in the soil collected between limestone outcrops. Some rooted is soft, rich appearing soil but much of it floating in clumps as long a two feet. I would assume very hard alkaline water due to the limestone. Possibly PH 7.8 with GH and KH in the 300PPM range? Some current but not much and clear water. In an area South and West of San Antonio , Texas.
Growing along a central stem were very thin, (1/64 inch?) less than an inch long, leaves in an alternating fashion. 
Appears somewhat like Java fern but with leaves having a smooth edge. 
Appears to grow in bright sunny spot.

May be quite common but then I find there are lots of common things I don't know!!


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

guppy grass?


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## Gone missing (Aug 26, 2017)

Sounds like good name for it but then I will have to look for guppy grass! Thans for at least giving me a name to check. I've heard of guppy grass plenty but never had an interest so filed it with lots of other info I should have kept?
Thanks for response. Much easier to chase a name than an unknown.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Guppy grass (_Najas_) has whorled leaves not alternate. My wild guess is water star grass (_Heteranthera_). The genus is native in Texas, looks at least vaguely like your plant. Did you see any emersed flowers?


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

Have to agree, looks like Star grass! 
Not green enough for guppy grass.


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## Gone missing (Aug 26, 2017)

In the name of better info, maybe some better pictures might help. 
This is not my game for sure. the closest I've come to ID on plants is tree work and that is much easier to picture leaves. This thing is so small and delicate that by the time I got the leaves arranged, it was beginning to dry , lose color and curl! Tiny, almost threadlike leaves. Compare to the needle? 

Another picture of it in the tank gives a better idea of the true color. Light, muddy lime green? I saw no flowers and nothing was extending above water on it. Planted to the soil at the bank and extending out horizontal in the water.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

Yea now I'm leaning Back again to guppy grass.


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## Gone missing (Aug 26, 2017)

Looking online for plant ID's can make one wonder at times. There seems to be a lot of different plants showing up with the same name at times! 
I can go with calling it guppy grass and admit that is just my best thinking. 
When I was getting water for drinking, the plant was there and looked a lot like Java moss until I pulled it out. Never one to turn down free plants, I stuck it in the bag and hauled it home before beginning to wonder what it really was. 
I have a bunch of small wood that cries for some plant stuck to the top but this seems pretty fragile as it breaks really easy. 
I'll call it guppy grass for now but next week I may call it compost!


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Both of these species are delicate plants that don't tolerate handling very well. You may need to wait for it to grow out in your tank to be certain.

Just for clarity: guppy grass is _Najas guadalupensis_, and water star grass is _Heteranthera dubia_.


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## Gone missing (Aug 26, 2017)

Thanks for the info from both. Not like it is going to be a super big discovery but then it always helps to find something new. Even if I'm the last person to find it new? 
I will likely keep it by itself for a bit and see how it feels about that tank and then if it is growing and spreading, I may rip off a few bits to see what else it might be willing to do. I tend to keep a lot of cichlids and tender stuff is not often good for that but then I also have a tank of small folks who would like to have something tiny like this. 
Right now it is in the QT, so as long as I keep my ship in order, the plant might as well hold down the space until I find what it thinks. 
I tend to go with the idea that there are so many plants who do really want to live here that I just don't go too far down the road with those who don't try! 
I quess I could call it my own form of "survival of the fittest"? 
Thanks again for the help.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

Michael said:


> Both of these species are delicate plants that don't tolerate handling very well. You may need to wait for it to grow out in your tank to be certain.
> 
> Just for clarity: guppy grass is _Najas guadalupensis_, and water star grass is _Heteranthera dubia_.


Really?! 
dang I gotta catch up! last time I heard, guppygrass was an unstoppable aquatic weed!!!


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

I should have worded that better! What I meant is that they tend to fall apart when you move them, and often don't look quite right when first planted. But yes, guppy grass is unstoppable when it gets going and can become a pest in a carefully composed tank. Since it does not need to be rooted in the substrate, it can coexist with digging fish and big cichlids.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

ah ok that sounds more accurate lel


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## Gone missing (Aug 26, 2017)

Unwanted, unstoppable, and unloved? That seems to be the favorite type plants for me to find. My first move into planted tanks came quite by accident. I was picking up a couple angelfish and commented on the plant growing in the tank so the guy plucked it out and gave it to me. He was ES-L and all he could tell me was it was "river weed". That left me pretty well high and dry for actual knowledge but I took it home and dropped the little pot in a 20 gallon where it grew and prospered so well that it required a few other plants! I used the twenty as a growout tank and also a place for some little Lab. chisamula. Turned out that the fish loved the plants and started breeding in a back corner way before I expected it! They are a smaller "cousin" of the yellow lab and I just did not think them big enough to spawn until I noticed the female holding a mouthful. 
Eventually I found the plant was hydrilla--possession, transport, or sale prohibited in Texas! 
But it sure works good in hard alkaline water with African cichlids! A plant for every situation and a fish for every plant?


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

liked your story, yes a plant for every situation


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## Gone missing (Aug 26, 2017)

One of my early notices that I should not believe what I read until testing it?
I had always believed that plants were not good in hard alkaline water, not good with cichlids , etc. etc. so had never tried live plants. But this was free, so why not? It would seem uncivil to turn down the plant offer! 
First thing I know this simple beginning became a tank too small for live plants and required much bigger!
I no longer believe much of what I read about plants and fish until I double check it. The female above and behind the male chism is holding eggs which proved to me that African cichlids and plants can work together if I make it so. 
Don't drink the Kool-aid until you check what's in it!
:drinkers:


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

I've bred both shell dwellers and julies in heavily planted tanks.


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## Gone missing (Aug 26, 2017)

Sometimes I think we get so hung up on the idea that humans have such good ideas that we forget to do what nature does. It takes some time and goes really slow before it decides what fish to put with what plants and in what size water. 
Nature may take millions of years and tons of experiments before getting the right combo but we want to do it in a couple years or less and if that doesn't work we say it can't be done!!!


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

Yea all my water is hard and I sell and propagate plants like mad. 
ScAmS!


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## CricketMclean (Sep 12, 2017)

It looks like nitella to me. A pond algae. Did you guys land on an Id? Does it have an odor? Is it soft or course?

Nitella

https://www.google.com/search?kgmid...ed352a6c6276bb99&source=sh/x/ke/kgs&q=Nitella


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

CricketMclean said:


> It looks like nitella to me. A pond algae. Did you guys land on an Id? Does it have an odor? Is it soft or course?
> 
> Nitella
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?kgmid...ed352a6c6276bb99&source=sh/x/ke/kgs&q=Nitella


nitella is almost a moss, very small and defined. Also a "slow" grower compared to this plant.

Either guppy or the other listed one (forgot the name).


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## Gone missing (Aug 26, 2017)

I think we can call it "guppy grass" and not something to keep!! 
I left it for a time and found it is a real pain to have in a tank. The small parts seem to break off way too easy and then float over to stick in the filter intake, where they quickly become a nuisance. 
It can now be called compost with a great deal of confidence?


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## CricketMclean (Sep 12, 2017)




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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Gone missing said:


> I think we can call it "guppy grass" and not something to keep!!
> I left it for a time and found it is a real pain to have in a tank. The small parts seem to break off way too easy and then float over to stick in the filter intake, where they quickly become a nuisance.
> It can now be called compost with a great deal of confidence?


Sounds like guppy grass to me!


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## CricketMclean (Sep 12, 2017)

Can y'all help out with Mine? It was growing on the opposite side of the pond than pictured. Was in more light than you see here. Keeping in mind it's in Phoenix Arizona. 

If you don't mind. Thanks


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

Guppy grass.

As for the worms, tubifex worms? not sure on those just a guess.


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## CricketMclean (Sep 12, 2017)

DutchMuch said:


> Guppy grass.
> 
> As for the worms, tubifex worms? not sure on those just a guess.


Hunh! I really couldn't believe I'd actually find guppy grass here. The pond is man made fed off a well to feed local cattle. It breaks apart so easily and makes such a mess. But is it useful for spawning? This stuff really just is odd. Oh the worms weren't at the pond. They were in my black worm tank but I figured I would see how they do with that plant.
Btw. Thank you.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

Cool worm setup 

Yea guppygrass is All over... texas to Chicago!


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## Gone missing (Aug 26, 2017)

After dealing with mine for a short time, I see little to recommend it, other than an interesting free item. For spawning, I have a number of things that are less trouble. 
Java moss is one that is more inclined to stay where I put it and actually looks nice. I glue a blob of it to wood and it attaches well and then begins to spread out in any free space. Fine lacey greenery that tends to strain out the odd bits of food and that really gives fry a space to hide as well as find food. 
Red myrio is one that seems to grow well for me in my hard water. I stick it into the sand or glue it to wood and it sends out long runs to wave in the water flow and will makes large loops. 
Hornwort is an old standby for fry tanks. 
For a super fast easy grower, you might check the local regs on noxious plants to see how it goes with hydrilla? Two situations on that are likely. Either it is not banned and you may not find it or it is banned and it will be in every body of water where it is overrunning all the native stuff! Sure does grow well, though! 
All of them seem less trouble than the guppy grass.


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## CricketMclean (Sep 12, 2017)

Gone missing said:


> After dealing with mine for a short time, I see little to recommend it, other than an interesting free item. For spawning, I have a number of things that are less trouble.
> Java moss is one that is more inclined to stay where I put it and actually looks nice. I glue a blob of it to wood and it attaches well and then begins to spread out in any free space. Fine lacey greenery that tends to strain out the odd bits of food and that really gives fry a space to hide as well as find food.
> Red myrio is one that seems to grow well for me in my hard water. I stick it into the sand or glue it to wood and it sends out long runs to wave in the water flow and will makes large loops.
> Hornwort is an old standby for fry tanks.
> ...


 ok lol. I think I'll toss it too  I have a grave site I like to use ? thanks for the other options


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

I have discovered another use for guppy grass: my ducks love to eat it.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

Michael that's a wonderful idea, as you know I live on a farm, I feed my ducks (in their pond) duckweed. Spreads faster than they eat it and they love it to!


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