# Sticky  Beginner's Guide to starting your first Emersed setup!!



## Zapins

Since emersed culture is so closely related to aquatic plants, but strangely so terribly neglected by most people who frequent this forum (just look at the low thread postings in the emersed culture forum!!!) I am making this guide to help anybody who has ever wanted to create their own emersed setup but didn't know where to begin.

First, why make an emersed setup at all?
Probably the best reason is to de-clutter our show tanks!! I'm sure everyone on this site has been through the infamous "collectoritis" stage at some point. By planting all those interesting and odd species in the emersed tub you can free up your existing tanks and really aquascape them properly.

Another great reason for making an emersed setup is to keep plants that we like but don't necessarily need at the moment in our scapes for future use. This saves time and money when it comes time to replant since we don't have to post wanted threads in the for sale section, pay shipping and handling or risk getting unwanted pests like algae, snails, diseases etc... Not to mention the emersed tub will produce prodigious amounts of plants so when it comes time to plant (or replant after a tank crash etc...) an entire scape all the plants are right there waiting. There is very little grow in time and conversion to submersed growth takes much less time since the plants are healthy and didn't sit in a dark box for three days in the mail.

Did I mention emersed tubs produce prodigious amounts of plants??? You will have enough plants to trim and sell on a weekly basis which can really add up and help fund more ambitious aquarium plans.

Care
Emersed setups need VERY little care. A simple light timer will take care of day and night rhythms so all you need to do is add water every 2-3 months when it evaporates.

Materials:
1 Plastic tub - $11 (from Walmart or Home Depot)
4 plastic shoe boxes - $4 (from Walmart or Home Depot)
1 light - $30-70 (from online, walmart, around the home, home depot, etc...)
1 light timer - $6 (from walmart or home depot)
1 piece of plexiglass (not necessary - depends if the plastic tub has a clear top) - $3 (home depot)
1 bag of top soil - $1-3 (from walmart or home depot)

The first step:
Take a thick nail and use fire to heat it up. Then poke the nail through the bottom of the small plastic shoe box many many times. You will want to do this so the soil that will later be placed inside the shoe box can soak up water from the main tub. It is critical to make holes in the bottom since this is the only way water can get to the soil. I advise against cutting holes since the plastic shoe boxes crack rather than cut. I used a blow torch since I had it conveniently lying around the house from another project (not to mention any excuse to use it ).










I used plastic shoe boxes of this make since they are cheap as heck and come with useful plastic lids that can be cut up and used for plant name tags.










The second step
Then you will want to put the four shoe boxes (with holes melted in the bottoms) into the larger tub in a way that they will fit.










The third step
Then you will want to add the top soil to the shoe boxes.










The fourth step
Since I have a plastic tub lid that is not see-through I had to cut a hole in it so the light can sit comfortably on top.










After the hole in the lid is cut this is what it should look like:










The fifth step
Add name tags so you don't forget what you planted!!! I thought I would remember what I had planted, but a few months down the line I opened one of my tubs and found that I couldn't remember what plants I had in there! The emersed growth is COMPLETELY different from submersed growth for most plants making an ID very difficult unless you are a seasoned emersed plant grower!










The sixth step
Plant your plants, write out name tags, add about 2 inches of water to the larger tub (you want the water level to be below the soil level by about 1-2 inches otherwise it will be too wet).










The last step
Close up the top and set your light timer for 12 hours a day. The tub is now ready for 3 months of maintenance free growth!!










Here is a picture of emersed grown hygrophilia polysperma 'sunset' after about two weeks of growth.


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## hydrophyte

top notch!

what is that crazy plant with the red stems in the picture second from last?


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## Zapins

Thanks 

I don't know what the plant is - I didn't label it 


Haha, it is Acisanthera sp. (until it gets an official name). Its a new, rare, and somewhat picky plant. I've been growing it for a few months now and its growing like a weed


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## wamblee2003

Thanks I have often thought about doing this, but did not find enough info. On my way to buy all the stuff.


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## davemonkey

Wonderful "How-To" Zapins! Thanks for sharing!

Yourset-up looks great. How deep is your tub? And have you had any issues with plants trying to outgrow the container?

-Dave


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## Zapins

wamblee2003 said:


> Thanks I have often thought about doing this, but did not find enough info. On my way to buy all the stuff.


Good to hear wamblee2003! Let us know how it works out 

davemonkey - thanks  the tub's height is roughly a foot and a few inches (maybe 2-3?). I used the plastic shoe boxes as a guide to what kind of larger tub to use. Since I wanted to fit 4 shoe boxes into the larger tub I had to find a tub wide enough. From what I found there are two particular tubs that will allow 4 shoe boxes to fit so finding them shouldn't be hard. I can post the names of each plastic bin if people are interested?

The plants do eventually grow and bump up against the ceiling, but I cut them before they reach it so its not usually a problem. Most of the plants I've grown seem to prefer getting bushy and staying small rather than making a jump straight to the light. Even the larger plants like Limnophila aromatica, Alternanthera reineckii, and Acisanthera sp tend to grow low.


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## plantkeeper

Excellent. This is also a great idea for old tanks you may have laying around.


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## ashappard

gmccreedy said:


> Excellent. This is also a great idea for old tanks you may have laying around.


yeah nice work Zapins.
holler if you get fruit and collect seeds from the Acisanthera / Aciotis.


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## Zapins

Thanks! I'm glad you like the explanation. Check out the general forum for a guide I copied. Its how to growing your own live food (Mosquitoes). 
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...3085-how-raise-mosquito-larvae-fish-food.html

Oh and yes I'll let you know if anything becomes of my Acisanthera flowers.


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## fish-aholic

If you could post the names of the bins, that would be great.


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## ZA_Ryan

Hi Zapins

I was wondering how often you check on the plants after you've closed up the big container. I'm guessing it's sealed just about air tight? Secondly, would the plants grow any faster if you add any ferts to the water you use initially? Could you leave the container in the sun outside (assuming you have a clear lid)? 

Kind regards,
Ryan


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## Zapins

It depends when I check on them. Sometimes I check them every day, because I'm checking for flowers, other times I don't check them for months at a time. They don't really need much care after they are set up. 

The container isn't sealed super tightly, I just put the plastic lid back on, I didn't do any extra sealing on top of that. Plants need to exchange gases with the atmosphere or they will run out of O2 or CO2. 

About fertilizing: the plants won't grow faster with more ferts added to the water. The black top soil contains more ferts than the plants could ever use. It will last for several years without running out of fertilizers. The only way to make the plants grow faster would be to increase the CO2 levels inside the container to roughly 2.5x the normal atmospheric concentrations but not higher, this might be a bit tricky though to control. Even doing this isn't necessary since natural concentrations in water of CO2 are roughly 3 ppm and in the air it is +350 ppm so the plants are definitely getting plenty of CO2.

You can leave the container outside, but you must be very careful that it doesn't overheat. Most aquatic plants can't handle more than 85 F without dying so direct sunlight all day + black topsoil absorbing all that heat and a container that acts as a greenhouse = hard to control temperatures. You might need to put the tub in a place where it gets indirect light for 95% of the day and maybe an hour of direct light in the morning or night. My friend grew HC in this way, so they get plenty of light.


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## f1ea

This is one great thread. 
i will keep at least 1 stem for emersed growth when i get rarer plants, so that i have a little factory to better fill my tank, and to have some to spare in case they dont do too well at first.

I have done this before with Hydrocotyle Verticilliata and HC. Verticilliata did great, but HC kinda failed because i kept it outside, the tub didn't have good drainage and i didnt really pay much attention to it, so when it rained it would end up drowned for a while...

:clap2:


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## oscarjamayaa

I´m growing HC also ... I´ll put some pics on a week so we cak check the procces of growing


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## Zapins

That's a great idea! Post your emersed tub pics in this thread! I'd love to see your setups!


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## londonloco

bump


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## MrSanders

This is a GREAT idea. At one time i had two emersed tubs going that i simply put soil and water into... but the plants never did all that well, and now im thinking it was because they were to wet and soggy. Using shoe box containers inside of a larger tub with just a few inches is brilliant! keeps things soaked on the bottom and just a but moist on top im guessing? Im looking forward to putting a new set up together now


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## Zapins

MrSanders said:


> This is a GREAT idea. At one time i had two emersed tubs going that i simply put soil and water into... but the plants never did all that well, and now im thinking it was because they were to wet and soggy. Using shoe box containers inside of a larger tub with just a few inches is brilliant! keeps things soaked on the bottom and just a but moist on top im guessing? Im looking forward to putting a new set up together now


Yup, exactly! Also, being inside a large container helps keep the humidity high enough to convert most plants from the very weak and susceptible submersed form to the emersed form without drying them out.

I'd love to see pictures of your new set up! Show us some before pics and then in a few weeks you could post the after pics! 

I'll post an update of my setups when I get home later tonight so everyone can see some examples.

I've actually got about 67 different types of plants now in my tubs and fish tanks, though most of them are safely housed in the emersed tubs for future use.


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## geeks_15

Awesome idea Zapins. Here is mine.










I just have some scraps in there to start, but it will be great as my collection grows and it gives me a place to grow out my cuttings.

I had a 55 gallon tank with a broken center brace that was just sitting empty that I used. I used a 48" single strip light with a T12 6700 bulb (do you think that will be enough light) that I already had. I didn't have a top so I cut up some old fish bags and taped them together. I laid them across the top of the tank. It isn't air tight, but the condensation on the glass tells me it is keeping the humidity up.

I'm excited.


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## Zapins

Nice work!!! That will work just fine. You could add another light in time if you like, more light never hurts!

You might want to watch your humidity levels though since after the plants convert to emersed form excess humidity might cause them to rot. Rotting happens if the condensation drips onto the plant leaves continually. So perhaps with time you might want to remove some of the plastic on the top after the plants have converted.

Here are some of my current emersed tubs!


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## maknwar

pvc stand on a cheap folding table


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## Zapins

Haha nice stand! Your crypts don't dry out like that??


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## maknwar

I have humidity domes over them all the time. I just took them off to take some pics of the crypts and didnt put them back on until after I took the pics.


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## Zapins

Ah... well that makes sense  

You have a wonderful crypt collection. Do you have other emersed plants or crypts only?


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## maknwar

I do have a stem of Hygrophila sp. 'Araguaia' in my setup but I am going to add some others shortly. I have some Staurogyne sp. 'purple' and a few other stems I want to add. 

What kind of lighting do you use? Also, is that a 4' rack from target you are using?


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## geeks_15

> You might want to watch your humidity levels though since after the plants convert to emersed form excess humidity might cause them to rot. Rotting happens if the condensation drips onto the plant leaves continually. So perhaps with time you might want to remove some of the plastic on the top after the plants have converted.


Would you recommend pulling up one corner of the plastic cover? Or removing more of the plastic? Or poking some holes in the plastic? The setup is in a basement and the air in the basement will be pretty dry over the cold winter months.

thanks,


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## maknwar

geeks_15 said:


> Would you recommend pulling up one corner of the plastic cover? Or removing more of the plastic? Or poking some holes in the plastic? The setup is in a basement and the air in the basement will be pretty dry over the cold winter months.
> 
> thanks,


Go to the pet store and buy a reptile humidity gauge. They cost around $5 and then stick it in the tank some how. My humidity reads around 80% when I have my two vents open. The gauge will help you adjust the tops of your tanks.


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## Zapins

Hmm, I think you could pull up one corner, or just seat the hood so that there is a half inch gap running along the entire length of the tank. Be sure to watch the water level, because as you mentioned, in winter evaporation rates are much higher.


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## geeks_15

I have a humidity meter. Do you know what range of humidity I should aim to achieve?


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## aquatic_clay

Thank you for such a great thread!

I have a quick question about lighting.

I know that most indoor gardeners will use some of the red plant grow lights since most terrestial plants use the red spectrum for photosynthesis. Would something like that help out with an emersed set up or would the regualar 6700k lighting work better since thats what the plants are used to?


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## Zapins

Well, the intensity of the light matters more then the color emitted since plants have accessory pigments that can absorb different color wavelengths. If the light is more yellow then the plant produces more yellow absorbing accessory pigments to compensate. 

So to answer your question, you could use red bulbs if you want, or you could use 6700K. I'd go with whatever is cheaper or whatever is more intense (lumens).

I look forward to seeing your emersed tubs!!


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## aquatic_clay

Here's what i came up with! I might have made a pretty big mess while moving the tank back to the shelve after it was filled up so the water is pretty filthy. I'll have to change it out tomorrow after work.

as of right now i've got 3 echinodorus kleiner bar, some lileopsis b., ludwigia repens, and rotala indica.

Bad picture from a camera phone but it works...

I might post up a journal tomorrow too


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## Zapins

Hey hey hey! Looks like you have a great new emersed tank in the making!! 

Keep us updated


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## grak70

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...

I initially tried to use a 29gal tank I just broke down, but the shoe boxes are about 34cm long and a 29gal tank is only 30cm wide. Had to go back to Walmart and get a big tub.

Total cost:

Shoe boxes - $0.97x4
Tub - $8.00
Hygrometer - $6.99
Soil - $3.98
Light timer - $6.97
Light - "Free" from the 29gal I just broke down (Odyssea 2x65W CF)
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$32.28 after tax

Right now, T=72F, RH=78% and has been for a few hours so I'm pretty satisfied with the natural ventilation.

Current denizens:
-hygrophila difformis
-HM
-Java fern
-Some unknown junk crypts I dug up from the 29gal.


















Once I'm confident those can survive, I'll start seeing what kind of damage I can do with HC and UG.

woot!


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## kshitij

Hello everyone,
Have been watching all the emersed setups for quite long. Its great so many emersed setups specially in APC . Great going .
Even i have planned for an emersed setup and the plants are arriving tomorrow so you will see a proper setup within two days. below is wat exactly i am planning:










There is a reason to why i want to creat a setup exactly like this. It is because i want this setup for propogation only, also i am not going to make holes in the clay pots which i shall be using because wat i thnk is making holes will increse the humidity more in the soil which decreases the growth a bit specially for the HC . This is wat inspired me specially for HC.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...culture/51344-3-steps-grow-emmersed-hc-2.html

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...nthus-callitrichoides-cuba-inflorescence.html

To create a perfect humidity i shall mist the soil everyday or in every 2 days.

Any suggestions are welcomed.


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## grak70

Looks like most of my plants have shriveled up pretty good. They're not potato chips, but they definitely look down for the count. My humidity is around 80% and my temp is about 72F. Should I expect this?


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## Zapins

That is why I suggested keeping the top closed the first few weeks until they convert over. Try get the humidity as high as possible. 

Even with max humidity the plants still shrivel a bit. The stem should not dry out though, but if the leaves do it is unimportant.


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## polywer2345

When should the plants convert over? My humidity is 100% in the morning and slowly goes down to about 80% and back to 100. Is this ok? Also when the leaves shrivel, will they do back to normal when the humidity is high? My crypt and sword leaves are soft but not completely dry and shriveled.


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## maknwar

polywer2345 said:


> When should the plants convert over? My humidity is 100% in the morning and slowly goes down to about 80% and back to 100. Is this ok? Also when the leaves shrivel, will they do back to normal when the humidity is high? My crypt and sword leaves are soft but not completely dry and shriveled.


Give the plants a few weeks. Your humidity is probably going from 100% to 80% due to the heat. More heat will make the humidity rise.

Chance are that the leaves will just either melt away or shrivel up and die. When the plant is converted, new leaves will grow and these will not shrivel up.


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## Zapins

maknwar said:


> Give the plants a few weeks. Your humidity is probably going from 100% to 80% due to the heat. More heat will make the humidity rise.
> 
> Chance are that the leaves will just either melt away or shrivel up and die. When the plant is converted, new leaves will grow and these will not shrivel up.


I echo this info.

When putting submersed plants into an emersed set up, it is important to keep the stem/main part of the plant as close to the soil as possible. One way to do this is to press the stem into the soil horizontally. This lets the stem pull water from the soil and stay moist. You can also press the leaves into the soil a bit to help them stay moist, but ultimately the leaves usually just dry up and die. As long as the stem stays alive you won't have problems.

It will definitely take a while for emersed growth to appear, the first conversion of submersed to emersed growth takes a while. After the initial emersed leaf and stem buds form growth accelerates. Though overall emersed growth is somewhat slower then submersed growth.

Your crypts and swords should do well as long as the roots live. As for the leaves, you can just mist them every other day to keep them moist.


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## polywer2345

Another question, I had my emersed setup outside, but due to the rain I had earlier it flooded. I took everything out and put it in my aquarium that is still being redone. I was wondering if I can put this outside without having the aquarium crack. It will be near my patio where it get sun and also on a table. I want to do this because I will have my tank planted at the same time as they are growing emersed. Thanks


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## Zapins

I'm not exactly sure what you mean. What are you going to do exactly? 

As for the sun, don't put the emersed tub in a spot that gets direct sunlight for more then 30 mins or so of light a day or it will overheat the tub very quickly and kill the plants. Test it out on a sunny day, you'll see how hot they get.


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## polywer2345

I meant that can I put my main aquarium outside with my plants inside it. I;m just worried about the tank cracking when I put water


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## Janf11

I have some ludwigia repens in my tank. Can I trim it and plant it in a emersed culture?


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## Zapins

Yes, ludwigia species are capable of being grown emersed.


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## Janf11

Zapins said:


> Yes, ludwigia species are capable of being grown emersed.


But when I planted the ludwigia the leaves started to loose some strength...  Although I have all the system closed the leaves don't seem wet xDD


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## Cavan Allen

Let it grow up out of some shallow water.


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## Janf11

I'll try to post here some photos today guys so you can five me some more advices 

Thanks for the help!!


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## Janf11

I started this project yesterday 


























































I hope you can give me some advices guys DD

Thanks


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## Zapins

Looks good so far. When you convert aquatic plants to emersed growth the leaves almost always die off. As long as the stem doesn't dry out the plant will put up new emersed leaves that won't dry out.

You just need to give it a week or two to get the new growth out.

Also, make sure you don't keep the tub in full sunshine outside like that, it will get too hot inside and the plants will die. If you are going to grow plants outside its better if they get no direct sunlight or partial sun for an hour or two until they change into their emersed form, then you can remove the cover and put them in the sun. The issue is simply the closed tub traps too much heat, but you need it closed until they have emersed growth or the stem will dry out and die.

Also, the moss won't grow emersed like that, it needs to be on damp soil to convert.


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## asukawashere

First of all, great thread Michael (though the in-person lecture we did for that CAPE meeting was more hands-on, the plants we planted were not as nice looking at the time... no time lapse, 2-weeks-later view of how they did LOL). Hopefully it will convert more people to the realm of emersed plant growth.

BTW, I demand that you bring cuttings from your emersed tubs to the meeting on the 23rd, because I am drooling over those thickets of plants. I'll pay you in shrimp, or cuttings from my own tubs (I have Gratiola aurea, if that's missing from your collection). Or something.

This time of year, I'm a huge fan of kicking the emersed plants outside and letting them fend for themselves. Mostly this causes them to grow and flower, so I figure they can't be hurting much. Echinodorus spp. flower and make babies like whoa this time of year. But more importantly, free sunlight + free warmth + free water means I can afford this month's electric bill


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## Janf11

Zapins said:


> Looks good so far. When you convert aquatic plants to emersed growth the leaves almost always die off. As long as the stem doesn't dry out the plant will put up new emersed leaves that won't dry out.
> 
> You just need to give it a week or two to get the new growth out.
> 
> Also, make sure you don't keep the tub in full sunshine outside like that, it will get too hot inside and the plants will die. If you are going to grow plants outside its better if they get no direct sunlight or partial sun for an hour or two until they change into their emersed form, then you can remove the cover and put them in the sun. The issue is simply the closed tub traps too much heat, but you need it closed until they have emersed growth or the stem will dry out and die.
> 
> Also, the moss won't grow emersed like that, it needs to be on damp soil to convert.


Oh ok! Thanks god everything is ok xD May I cut the old leaves? About the light don't worry because I have it well covered with some plants so it don't traps too much heat 

About the moss... I just have it in water for now because I didn't have time yet to buy some good soil  Thanks for the help dude  I'll try to post some news of this emersed culture as soon as possible!


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## Zapins

Yes you can remove the dead leaves from the stem.  

I find that if you put the stem on its side along the surface of the soil, sort of press it into the soil, it stays moist and doesn't dry out. If you plant the stem straight up like a normal garden plant then the leaves and the stem can dry out near the top.

Post some pictures as things get growing!


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## Janf11

I understand your point  But if I keep it straight up it's ok too, right? I'll probably cut the leaves and a bit of the stem that dried out ... 
I'll keep posting )

Thanks for everything!


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## Zapins

Yes its ok to keep it upright. You'll probably get a bit more die off but it should convert soon enough.

Looking forwards to pics as it grows in!


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## D9Vin

What a great thread, just one question tho, when you say water level 1-2 inches blow soil level, you are referring to the top of the soil right?


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## gladiator008

so with this setup I could take a budding plant out of my tank and grow it in this kit and it will grow


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## cableguy69846

gladiator008 said:


> so with this setup I could take a budding plant out of my tank and grow it in this kit and it will grow


Depends on the plant, but for the most part, yes. Just do a little bit of research and make sure it will grow out of water.


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## cbwmn

Zapins said:


> Well, the intensity of the light matters more then the color emitted since plants have accessory pigments that can absorb different color wavelengths. If the light is more yellow then the plant produces more yellow absorbing accessory pigments to compensate.
> 
> So to answer your question, you could use red bulbs if you want, or you could use 6700K. I'd go with whatever is cheaper or whatever is more intense (lumens).
> 
> I look forward to seeing your emersed tubs!!


This surprises me. 
I have a 48" strip light and some F40/AGRO tubes. I fired them up and they emit a very pink light. Will these work over some emrsed bins full of plants?
I tried googling them to find the "K" rating to no avail.
Charles


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## Zapins

Yes pink looking lights are fine. Plants like red and blue light most so if yours is pink its probably one of the plant grow bulbs they sell at hardware stores.

Be sure to post some pictures of your setup when your plants grow in!! They are probably in the 3500 - 5000 k range.


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## cableguy69846

I just wanted to post some pictures of my setup. I have two bins. The larger was started in early September and the smaller was started in late September. Here they are.




























More information on these can be found here. Don't mind the pictures not showing up in the beginning. They will show up again on the 15th. Enjoy.


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## Krystal907

Gah! I cant wait till I move back from college so I can start doing all this stuff!! I'm already going to have a hell of a time transporting two tanks, a plant grow table, and all my other crap! APC, stop being so awesomely helpful and informative until I can move back home!


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## cableguy69846

Krystal907 said:


> Gah! I cant wait till I move back from college so I can start doing all this stuff!! I'm already going to have a hell of a time transporting two tanks, a plant grow table, and all my other crap! APC, stop being so awesomely helpful and informative until I can move back home!


Lol. I hope the fiancee and I don't have to move for a while. 6 tanks, 2 emersed boxes, 6 reptile enclosures, 2 cats, and a baby in Feb. It will take us a month to move all that.

Do you have a thread or picture of the plant grow table? I am interested.


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## Krystal907

Ugh, that would be horrible to move lol. Havent told my parents about the aquariums thing yet... they will not be pleased haha.
I don't have a thread of the plant grow table because it has nothing to do with Aquariums, just some peppers and a local plants vase with snails. But I'd be happy to post a picture! I get bored every summer and have to build something to keep my hands busy so I built the table 2 summers ago and just added the light to it this fall.








I figure I'll attach another light fixture to the bottom of the table and start emersed growth down there someday.


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## cableguy69846

@ Krystal907 Not bad. Lot's of room for some expansion.


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## Aquaticz

Great thread thanks Zapins

Fellow enthusiasts here is the basic info:
I have a vertical set up of four 24" X 24" X 10 1/2" tanks that I purchased years ago from a LFS. The tanks were made for reptiles & each has a full screen top with sliding glass doors. The doors sit on a track just in front of a 3" piece of glass. I have made these tanks completely fillable with water up to the 3" mark . Each tank has its own timer for lighting fixtures built into the unit. The unit sits in the corner of a room that gets a lot of natural light from windows on both sides. 

the query:
I want to do emersed but do not like the look of the plastic shoe boxes as this is in my living room with a number of fresh water show tanks. Would it be advisable to NOT use the plastic boxes and limit each tank to a species or use plexi glass dividers in the same tank? Can I simply put in soggy soil? Do I need flowing water below as I have seen in some? What would you think if I used something like proface or oil dri as the substrate with some osmocote below? 
Given the info above what would you suggest?


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## cableguy69846

Aquaticz said:


> Great thread thanks Zapins
> 
> Fellow enthusiasts here is the basic info:
> I have a vertical set up of four 24" X 24" X 10 1/2" tanks that I purchased years ago from a LFS. The tanks were made for reptiles & each has a full screen top with sliding glass doors. The doors sit on a track just in front of a 3" piece of glass. I have made these tanks completely fillable with water up to the 3" mark . Each tank has its own timer for lighting fixtures built into the unit. The unit sits in the corner of a room that gets a lot of natural light from windows on both sides.
> 
> the query:
> I want to do emersed but do not like the look of the plastic shoe boxes as this is in my living room with a number of fresh water show tanks. Would it be advisable to NOT use the plastic boxes and limit each tank to a species or use plexi glass dividers in the same tank? Can I simply put in soggy soil? Do I need flowing water below as I have seen in some? What would you think if I used something like proface or oil dri as the substrate with some osmocote below?
> Given the info above what would you suggest?


I have seen quite a few people just put soil in the tank without using the plastic shoe boxes with great results. The dividers would be a good idea but not necessary. You can just put them in the soil without attaching them to the tank. Just make sure they fit sorta snug. You should be fine with that. Just be ready to prune a lot if you plan on growing any carpeting plants. They like to jump over dividers. And I am not sure about the substrates you suggested. I find I get great growth in a potting soil that has plant food in it. You don't have to have water movement in the tanks, some people just prefer it as it will spread nutrients around better and keeps the water clear. And make sure your substrate is not too wet. You don't want the soil to start floating around. I would just moisten it until it will not absorb any more water and mist once a day from there. Good luck, and remember to post pics here when you get it going.


----------



## Aquaticz

I wanted to thank you for the response. Last weekend I started cleaning out the four tanks, removing cork, rock, substrate etc. I've a mini meet to go to today but figure by the end of the weekend I should have all tanks squeaky clean & all bleached out. Then I will verify the seals are still good before moving forward. Pics to come


----------



## cableguy69846

Aquaticz said:


> I wanted to thank you for the response. Last weekend I started cleaning out the four tanks, removing cork, rock, substrate etc. I've a mini meet to go to today but figure by the end of the weekend I should have all tanks squeaky clean & all bleached out. Then I will verify the seals are still good before moving forward. Pics to come


Sounds good man. Keep us posted.


----------



## Aquaticz

+1 this is what got my interest up. I've a tub on a deck that gets a lot of sun. I have been tossing in a little bit of this and a little bit of that and sure enough.
Still cleaning tanks for my new set up, the lack of light when I get home is having an impact. Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I hate short days


----------



## cableguy69846

Aquaticz said:


> +1 this is what got my interest up. I've a tub on a deck that gets a lot of sun. I have been tossing in a little bit of this and a little bit of that and sure enough.
> Still cleaning tanks for my new set up, the lack of light when I get home is having an impact. Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I hate short days


That's why I put mine inside under a T5HO fixture.


----------



## Krystal907

So I'm starting a mini emersed set up hopefully growing some HG, wisteria, bronze crypt, and something I haven't decided on yet. Got everything from the dollar store so I spend about 3 bucks there and 4 bucks for the soil.

Biggest question I have is why do people try to keep the water clear? I don't have any critters living in it, so can't I just top off the water with old fish tank water whenever it needs it and leave it at that?


----------



## cableguy69846

Krystal907 said:


> So I'm starting a mini emersed set up hopefully growing some HG, wisteria, bronze crypt, and something I haven't decided on yet. Got everything from the dollar store so I spend about 3 bucks there and 4 bucks for the soil.
> 
> Biggest question I have is why do people try to keep the water clear? I don't have any critters living in it, so can't I just top off the water with old fish tank water whenever it needs it and leave it at that?


I guess most people like the way it looks. It really doesn't make a difference in quality if you ask me. My water is almost black, but the plants are growing, so why mess with it? You can do that with the fish tank water if you want. As long as there are nutrients in the water, it is good.


----------



## Krystal907

Sounds good to me! I figured fish water would be good because it has fish waste as extra fertilization. Even though I don't need it with the MGO Potting mix.


----------



## cableguy69846

Krystal907 said:


> Sounds good to me! I figured fish water would be good because it has fish waste as extra fertilization. Even though I don't need it with the MGO Potting mix.


That goes by personal preference as well. I don't use fish tank water in mine, cuz I didn't think of it until just now. Lol. I do spray my setups with fertilizers (the same stuff I use in my tanks) every other day and regular water on the off days. I change the water maybe once every few months. I think I have changed it a total of 5 times since September. It really just goes by your preferences. This thread is an excellent starting point for setting one up. Everything else he doesn't cover is all experimentation by the keeper. There really is no right or wrong way to do it. If your plants are growing and healthy, then you are doing something right. If not, fiddle around with it until it does what you like.

Also want to say thanks to Zapins. Great thread he has going here.


----------



## Krystal907

Definitely! I wouldn't have ever known about emersed growing unless this thread was created. Now I have dreams of growing a crap ton of plants someday and selling them myself! THANK YOU ZAPINS!!!


----------



## cableguy69846

Krystal907 said:


> Definitely! I wouldn't have ever known about emersed growing unless this thread was created. Now I have dreams of growing a crap ton of plants someday and selling them myself! THANK YOU ZAPINS!!!


Lol. That was my plan too. So far I have made some pretty decent money over on TPT.


----------



## Zapins

Krystal907 said:


> Definitely! I wouldn't have ever known about emersed growing unless this thread was created. Now I have dreams of growing a crap ton of plants someday and selling them myself! THANK YOU ZAPINS!!!


Haha, no problem! That is what forums are for!

Yeah the people on TPT seem to snap up any plants for sale for some reason. Maybe it is because they only get 1 free sale thread per month haha.


----------



## asukawashere

Zapins said:


> Yeah the people on TPT seem to snap up any plants for sale for some reason. Maybe it is because they only get 1 free sale thread per month haha.


Even that "free" sale thread isn't really free... lately they've decided to hit people up for more cash if they try to sell more than a handful of items, even if they're already supporting members. Aquabid is better IMO in that they don't demand "donations" for selling small items.

As for those who have ideas of making a profit... hate to burst bubbles, but take a good look at your electric bills as you add new setups. Growing plants indoors is expensive; unless you live in a tropical climate or own a greenhouse where you can cultivate outdoors all year round with free heat & lighting, it's not at all economical. Emersed growing indoors is a great way to store species, a lot of fun, and can help recoup some of the losses from owning multiple setups, but it's not the sort of thing one uses to rake in the dough...


----------



## cableguy69846

Zapins said:


> Haha, no problem! That is what forums are for!
> 
> Yeah the people on TPT seem to snap up any plants for sale for some reason. Maybe it is because they only get 1 free sale thread per month haha.


Lol. That could be. I think the next go-round, I am going to put a thread on here and see what I can sell.


----------



## cableguy69846

asukawashere said:


> Even that "free" sale thread isn't really free... lately they've decided to hit people up for more cash if they try to sell more than a handful of items, even if they're already supporting members. Aquabid is better IMO in that they don't demand "donations" for selling small items.
> 
> As for those who have ideas of making a profit... hate tu burst bubbles, but take a good look at your electric bills as you add new setups. Growing plants indoors is expensive; unless you live in a tropical climate or own a greenhouse where you can cultivate outdoors all year round with free heat & lighting, it's not at all economical. Emersed growing indoors is a great way to store species, a lot of fun, and can help recoup some of the losses from owning multiple setups, but it's not the sort of thing one uses to rake in the dough...


I agree with you 100%. Not all that profitable. But even if I break even, I am happy with it and will continue to do it. And you can bet I will have some setups out side next summer. Already have a tub pond and an emersed setup planned for the backyard when the weather breaks.


----------



## Krystal907

I agree agree with Cable and asukawashere haha. I LOVE growing plants and if I could just break even, supply newbies with a few plants, or trade at a store for store credit I'd be more than thrilled! And ditto on the greenhouse thing. Once I get situated I will be putting up a green house ASAP for tomatoes and aquarium plants!


----------



## cableguy69846

Krystal907 said:


> I agree agree with Cable and asukawashere haha. I LOVE growing plants and if I could just break even, supply newbies with a few plants, or trade at a store for store credit I'd be more than thrilled! And ditto on the greenhouse thing. Once I get situated I will be putting up a green house ASAP for tomatoes and aquarium plants!


Lol. Greenhouse for tomatoes and aquarium plants. Love it.


----------



## Aquaticz

Hi
is there a list of plants that will grow emersed?
i ask because someone is selling at great prices but I only want to buy if they can grow emersed & frankly I do not have enough time to look up each plant.
Thank YOU


----------



## Zapins

Most plants grow emersed only 2-3 don't. Vals don't and bylaxa doesn't off the top of my head. I don't think any of the lace type plants do either (Aponogetons).


----------



## Krystal907

If you go to the plant finder on the top of the page, there is an option to choose "grows emersed". Thats how I've been finding out if things grow emersed or not!


----------



## Aquaticz

Hi,
Set this up over the weekend for emersed growing of plants.
I think it may be to wet so i'll drain some water later after work 

The second tank is for fish 

Tanks are 24" X 24" X 11?
bulbs are T-8 - 24 watt ( each different) & in the "GLO" family of bulbs

Comments are welcome


----------



## Zapins

That is a nice setup you have. Looks like furniture rather than my metal rack  nice tank dimensions I have never seen tanks that size before. Are they custom made or for reptiles?

Also the soil is definitely too wet. The plants would likely have trouble with fungus.


----------



## asukawashere

Zapins said:


> Most plants grow emersed only 2-3 don't. Vals don't and bylaxa doesn't off the top of my head. I don't think any of the lace type plants do either (Aponogetons).


Add to that list the genera Cabomba, Potamogeton, Egeria, and most of the lilies... also just about all of the floating species (though they can float on mud and live...)


----------



## Zapins

Hmm I think we need a new sticky with all the plants that can't grow emersed. I will add the ones you mentioned but if you can think of any more that can't grow emersed I will add them to the sticky.


----------



## Aquaticz

Thanks Zapins, 
It is like furniture 
I bought it after talking a LFS owner into selling it for a mere hundred dollars some 20 years ago. It was designed for reptiles and I waterproofed it as it leaked like a sieve originally. All the wiring (for the most part) was dadoed into the vertical stiles of the unit. Each tank has a 1/8 inch hardware cloth installed. Tonight I cut the plex to seal them off. As far as the soil goes I pushed some aside in each tank so that I will be able t drain when I get home. I may need to also add dry soil. I think I got one out of three right .....LOL
Quite moist but zero standing water. I can see this is a flaw in doing it this way but expect to overcome that small challenge with some 2.5 PVC cut to 3" lengths & placed near a front corner. This will be my indicator, I'll put a few saw kerfs on the bottom side to allow water to collect & drain from there.


That is a nice setup you have. Looks like furniture rather than my metal rack nice tank dimensions I have never seen tanks that size before. Are they custom made or for reptiles? Getting An Awesome ROAK from asukawashere thank you again)& another paid plant package from Gordon with extras . Should have them in a day or so. I also have my dividers ready but will post that when I get to it. This is fun project that will not take alot of effort. 

Also the soil is definitely too wet. The plants would likely have trouble with fungus.
__________________


----------



## Zapins

good to hear. I look forwards to updates !

There is definitely something about emersed tubs... I think its the smell of them, or maybe its being able to open a closed box and stick my head right in with the plants that makes them almost magical to me. It is like I'm peeking in on a little self-sufficient world and seeing what goes on in there.


----------



## asukawashere

Zapins said:


> Hmm I think we need a new sticky with all the plants that can't grow emersed. I will add the ones you mentioned but if you can think of any more that can't grow emersed I will add them to the sticky.


According to the plantfinder... Eichornia diversifolia, Egleria fluctuans, Erio setaceum, Lagarosiphon spp., Barclaya...

The genus Nymphoides isn't represented in the plantfinder but I'm pretty sure its species don't grow emersed, either. Maybe also genus Nuphar? ...Oh! And the genus Najas.



Zapins said:


> There is definitely something about emersed tubs... I think its the smell of them, or maybe its being able to open a closed box and stick my head right in with the plants that makes them almost magical to me. It is like I'm peeking in on a little self-sufficient world and seeing what goes on in there.


Closed box? What about low-humidity setups, huh? Tons of plants grow emersed just fine open-top... so you can plant a swamp all over evry available surface of your house! XD


----------



## cableguy69846

asukawashere said:


> According to the plantfinder... Eichornia diversifolia, Egleria fluctuans, Erio setaceum, Lagarosiphon spp., Barclaya...
> 
> The genus Nymphoides isn't represented in the plantfinder but I'm pretty sure its species don't grow emersed, either. Maybe also genus Nuphar? ...Oh! And the genus Najas.
> 
> Closed box? What about low-humidity setups, huh? Tons of plants grow emersed just fine open-top... so you can plant a swamp all over evry available surface of your house! XD


I like the sound of that last statement.


----------



## Zapins

Haha just put soil all over the house and flood it! Be sure to cut large holes in the ceiling for natural sunlight, or remove entire roof for best results!


----------



## cableguy69846

Zapins said:


> Haha just put soil all over the house and flood it! Be sure to cut large holes in the ceiling for natural sunlight, or remove entire roof for best results!


YES!!!! Lol. I wonder how the in-laws would feel about this.......


----------



## Krystal907

Aquaticz, I tried to reply, but your inbox was full. Here was the gist of the message:
Your welcome!!!!!! !


----------



## asukawashere

Anybody ever read the children's picture book _The Salamander Room_?

I'm thinking something like that


----------



## nomad

Hope it's okay to go necromancer on this thread, but I am planning to try this out and had a couple minor questions.

1) How long are people setting their day-cycles for? I've read 12-14 hours of submerged, but submerged also use only a fraction of the light compared to emersed (15%?). I don't want to bake my first batch for this reason.

2) Does the soil rot being soaked the entire time? I will likely get kicked out of my place if I start a tub of rotting soil. Has anyone done this and noticed any funky smells? Would dropping a small power head in the large bin help (if stagnate water is a problem in the first place)?

Thanks 

Nomad


----------



## nomad

nomad said:


> Hope it's okay to go necromancer on this thread, but I am planning to try this out and had a couple minor questions.
> 
> 1) How long are people setting their day-cycles for? I've read 12-14 hours of submerged, but submerged also use only a fraction of the light compared to emersed (15%?). I don't want to bake my first batch for this reason.
> 
> 2) Does the soil rot being soaked the entire time? I will likely get kicked out of my place if I start a tub of rotting soil. Has anyone done this and noticed any funky smells? Would dropping a small power head in the large bin help (if stagnate water is a problem in the first place)?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Nomad


I reread the tutorial and saw the part about 12 hr light cycle. Also guess that the author would have already learned of rotting soil after the months this has been in use. So I guess I had all the info I needed anyway...


----------



## Zapins

Hello Nomad, a lighting period of anywhere from 6-14 hours is appropriate depending on how bright your lights are, how far away they are, etc... 8-10 hours is probably a good starting point though if you have medium lighting.

Also, if you ensure that the top of the soil rises at least 1 inch above the water line then rotting soil and plants won't be a problem. I've never had soil rot and smell bad in any of the dozens of emersed setups I've kept. 

Post pictures of your setup and progress pictures I would love to see them.


----------



## nomad

Thanks for the reply. That all makes a lot if sense. I'm headed home right now to get this all set up. Very excited.


----------



## nomad

Here is what I've got so far:

1x Sterilite 106 Quart Tub
4x Sterilite 6 Quart Shoe box
1x Sun Blaze T5HO 4x24" w/ 6500K bulbs (I have 3000K bulbs too)
1x .220" Optix Acrylic sheet (24"x18" cut to 24"x16")
1x small tube of silicone adhesive
1x bag Miracle-Gro Organic Choice Potting Soil

Drilled a bunch of 1/8" holes in the bottoms of the shoe box tubs, cannibalized the tops of the shoe boxes for dividers, cut a hole in the large tub lid that was between 3/4" to 1" less than the acrylic and glued it down. Planted some dwarf baby tear and dwarf hairgrass. Put in enough water to leave 1" from the top of the soil. Set up a 10 hour timer on the light.

Here are some pics:


















I found that one of the empty boxes got sucked down in spots to the large tub and water didn't come in through all the holes (which doesn't matter for the empty tub). So I put a few bits of left over aquarium gravel under my planted box to make sure that didn't happen. This probably wasn't necessary but thought it may possibly help someone maybe.

Fingers crossed that the plants take root. Only question I really have is, should I swap in some of my 3000K bulbs? I understand terrestrial plants photosynthesis more red light than aqua plants, what do you people think?

Also, big thanks to Zapins for the OP and the helpful comments!


----------



## Zapins

Looks like you are off to a great start! You could swap the bulbs out since 3k is a bit low, but the intensity is more important than the exact kelvin rating. Especially since kelvin ratings are only averages of the colors of light in the bulb not - very accurate.


----------



## cookymonster

nomad said:


> Here is what I've got so far:
> 
> 1x Sterilite 106 Quart Tub
> 4x Sterilite 6 Quart Shoe box
> 1x Sun Blaze T5HO 4x24" w/ 6500K bulbs (I have 3000K bulbs too)
> 1x .220" Optix Acrylic sheet (24"x18" cut to 24"x16")
> 1x small tube of silicone adhesive
> 1x bag Miracle-Gro Organic Choice Potting Soil
> 
> Drilled a bunch of 1/8" holes in the bottoms of the shoe box tubs, cannibalized the tops of the shoe boxes for dividers, cut a hole in the large tub lid that was between 3/4" to 1" less than the acrylic and glued it down. Planted some dwarf baby tear and dwarf hairgrass. Put in enough water to leave 1" from the top of the soil. Set up a 10 hour timer on the light.
> 
> Here are some pics:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found that one of the empty boxes got sucked down in spots to the large tub and water didn't come in through all the holes (which doesn't matter for the empty tub). So I put a few bits of left over aquarium gravel under my planted box to make sure that didn't happen. This probably wasn't necessary but thought it may possibly help someone maybe.
> 
> Fingers crossed that the plants take root. Only question I really have is, should I swap in some of my 3000K bulbs? I understand terrestrial plants photosynthesis more red light than aqua plants, what do you people think?
> 
> Also, big thanks to Zapins for the OP and the helpful comments!


one question i was planing on doing something similar to this but i also wanted to add some kind of air flow through the entire box how can i achieve this since i hate the fungus that forms in the soil


----------



## nomad

I haven't seen any fungus since I started a week ago but I'm guessing that's not long enough. If you do put a fan in there you'd want to just circulate the air inside and not exhaust it or you'd lose all your humidity. Aside from that some cheap desk fan could probably be hot glued inside with the cord running out. Just be careful and probably install a GFCI outlet or plug there. Having ac that close to the water seems quite dangerous.

I just installed this http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/663115-gfci_plug_in_adapter.html in my setup to be safe.


----------



## bratyboy2

Okay stupid question...i see people writing "i threw in this"....are your actually just tossing a submerged plant stem on the soil and letting it grow? Or how do I get the plants going?


----------



## nomad

bratyboy2 said:


> Okay stupid question...i see people writing "i threw in this"....are your actually just tossing a submerged plant stem on the soil and letting it grow? Or how do I get the plants going?


I planted them like I'd plant any plant, make a small hole in the dirt with a finger, place the plant in, and fill in loose dirt on top. Seems to be working, my dwarf baby tear and dwarf hairgrass both seem to be growing.


----------



## MisterB

great thread Zapins, i had something like this in mind for a while but just didnt know how tbh.

so, you've inspired me! heres what ive come up with.










some plants ive taken from my aquariums to try this. 30litre tank, 11w T5 light 7000k

ive got a glass lid for it but its not tight fitting at all (about 5-8mm gaps all the way around) ive got some cling film over the top of the tank atm. does this need to be sealed tight? or should i punch a couple of small holes in?

the way my head works, im thinking i need to keep it as humid as poss to start with?

any help is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Zapins

MisterB, thanks for your kind words and your post.

A glass lid should be fine. You don't want to seal the tank completely or it will be too humid in the tank, possibly causing fungus which can harm the plants. A gap of 5-8 mm sounds just right, but if you see your plants drying out fast then you can mist them with a spray bottle every few days until they convert or you can push them into the soil so the humidity of the soil keeps them from drying out.

Keep in mind that the submersed leaves you have sticking up out of the substrate will never convert to emersed growth, only new leaves will be in this form. The submersed grown leaves will eventually dry out and die. As long as the stem or root of the plant doesn't dry out it will eventually change.

Also, if possible you will want to add more light. The more light the better for emersed tanks. You don't have to worry about algae here


----------



## MisterB

ok cool, my plan was to start useing the lid when the plants are converted, or on there way. didnt want them to dry out to fast to start with, im in the UK so slightly different climate to you.

also, was going to cut away the dead leaves ect when the plants start to convert. its all new so im sure ill realise things as i go.

yup, i wish i had more spare lights!!! this is the only one i had spare but if i get the chance ill up the lighting. and yes, no algea is great!

thanks again for the help!


----------



## Zapins

No problem 

If you get a chance please update this thread with pictures of your plant's progress.


----------



## totziens

I have stayed in the U.S. (MA area), the U.K. (a smalltown called Stafford) and my own country, Malaysia. Duration of stay was at least 3 months.

I find humidity in the U.K. very low. My skin cracked was the first indication. It's not so bad in the U.S. In Malaysia, humidity is very high.

I wonder whether the humidity difference in various countries may impact on emersed growth of plants. Maybe not much because even in a country with high humidity, the plants dry up very fast being exposed to natural air circulation.


----------



## kcoscia

bringing back the thread! 
just started this today:


----------



## BriDroid

I also started one of these today. Thanks for the idea. Its under my stand. Funny thing, my wife doesn't understand why I'm growing plants in a Rubbermaid tub LOL.


----------



## Zapins

Ha  She will when they grow in and look great!

Post pictures when you can.

I just started a new emersed tank as well, I'll start taking pics when it grows in a little more.


----------



## BriDroid

As promised, and asked for, here is my sad little setup.

I currently have the following planted in there:
Rotala wallichii
Bacopa salzmannii
Bacopa sp 'Japan'
Lindernia rotundifolia 'Variegated'
Ludwigia hybrid sp. 'Red'
Ludwigia x lacustris
Ludwigia repens x arcuata	
Ludwigia senegalensis
Rotala macrandra
Rotala rotundifolia

I just added the R macrandra today, so it's still has totally submersed leaves. I try to mist it every morning and every night with water from my EI dosed tank. The Rotolas really seem to appreciate the misting as well. At first I had an air pump with a large airstone in the water to keep the humidity up. That didn't work, it only seemed to dry out the plants.

Here are a couple of pics. I'm using a 17W spiral compact florescent bulb for the lighting. It seems to be working good. I'm planning on borrowing my clubs PAR meter to see how much light I'm actually getting from it though.


----------



## axelrod12

Here's my emersed tub, I plan on setting a 2nd up soon. For now there is just plastic wrap on top, although I plan on replacing it with a sheet of glass so I can rest the light directly on it. The growth is much slower than I was led to believe it would be with emersed plants. The plants in my 29g high tech grow considerably faster. Perhaps not enough light on the tub?

The A. Reineckii and Persicaria Sao Paulo were just added last week.


----------



## Zapins

More light will definitely help you can really blast the light much higher than you can with submersed plants, but I think you are correct about emersed plants growing slower than submersed. I've noticed this too. I believe it is because they must develop much larger roots, make a wax cuticle, make stomata on the leaves, put more material into the stem to make it hold up against gravity etc... 

Very nice setups! They look really well planned and lush.


----------



## Tattooedfool83

Looks great axel


----------



## Tattooedfool83

Zapins said:


> More light will definitely help you can really blast the light much higher than you can with submersed plants, but I think you are correct about emersed plants growing slower than submersed. I've noticed this too. I believe it is because they must develop much larger roots, make a wax cuticle, make stomata on the leaves, put more material into the stem to make it hold up against gravity etc...
> 
> Very nice setups! They look really well planned and lush.


I think its slow going as they transition but once they are in emersed form they take off


----------



## Tattooedfool83

Here's my 55, I thought I had posted here about it.


----------



## Zapins

They do grow faster when fully converted but I still think the growth rate is much faster in submersed plants in ideal conditions than emersed. 3 inches/week in submersed form vs. not even an inch emersed from what I've seen with many stems.

I really like the little pots you are using. Makes it look so neat and tidy. I wonder if my glosso would be better off in a pot vs. let loose on the soil next to other plants like HC?


----------



## axelrod12

Thanks guys. I have noticed that plants that I placed in the tub first currently grow the fastest. I also like those smaller pots, I think I may try a mix of shoebox tupperware and pots like that in the next tub.


----------



## Zapins

Same here.

You know, the nice thing about small pots is that you can actually just pick them up and put them in your fish tank later on and the plant will convert to submersed form but it will have a huge established root system so it will be much faster and more robust.


----------



## Tattooedfool83

I use hydroponic pots with coco fiber liners. They are nice because they allow flow thru the soil but the roots grow thru them and makes it hard to remove and repot from the liners I have a bunch of plants on there way from a few people and I'm waiting on a reply from others. I have mowed this tank down to plant submerged tanks and it grows back so quick. So I'll be moving and repotting things this weekend. I'll update when I do. There are so many multiple plants in each pot.


----------



## axelrod12

I've got a question about tops. I've heard of people using plexiglass as well as getting glass cut for lids. Has anyone experienced any melting/warping while resting one of those clip on shop light domes directly on plexiglass? I would prefer to use plexiglass over actual glass, the bins are in my garage and the glass would run a large risk of being broken.


----------



## Zapins

I use plexiglass and real glass. The plexiglass doesn't melt but it tends to bow over time. Probably because I use thin stuff instead of the thicker more expensive type.


----------



## Tattooedfool83

You can go to lowes and buy a 12x36" piece if glass and they cut it for free. It's like $6.50 for the piece. That's what I use for almost all my tanks


----------



## axelrod12

Tattooedfool83 said:


> You can go to lowes and buy a 12x36" piece if glass and they cut it for free. It's like $6.50 for the piece. That's what I use for almost all my tanks


I'm not so much worried about price as it breaking.

How long before the plexiglass usually starts to bow?


----------



## Zapins

The bowing is not really a deal breaker it doesn't drip or anything, it just gets a bit floppy, it gets like that pretty quickly.


----------



## Tattooedfool83

Zapins said:


> The bowing is not really a deal breaker it doesn't drip or anything, it just gets a bit floppy, it gets like that pretty quickly.


Does it get hazy at all?


----------



## axelrod12

One more question I thought of, I have my bins in the garage right now. Due to space issues they may have to stay there. So, with winter approaching how cold is too cold? Our house does leak heat to the garage so it won't be as cold as outside but I'm worried for those days when the temperature really drops low.


----------



## Zapins

I haven't noticed too much hazing, the piece is quite thin so there isn't much to get hazy. It is more scratched up than anything else.

Temperature affects plant growth a lot. I wouldn't go below 65-70. Most of the plants we keep are tropical and never get below those temperatures.


----------



## Tattooedfool83

Zapins said:


> I haven't noticed too much hazing, the piece is quite thin so there isn't much to get hazy. It is more scratched up than anything else.
> 
> Temperature affects plant growth a lot. I wouldn't go below 65-70. Most of the plants we keep are tropical and never get below those temperatures.


I keep my set up right around 70-72 degrees and I have great growth


----------



## Window7

Here my setup, 55g and 20L.

Light: 48" shop light on the 20L, 2 cfl shop light aka clamp light in the 55g
Top soil
I use my RO waste water to mist the plant.


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## Zapins

Fantastic growth Window!

How long has that been set up for? I especially like the second picture.


----------



## Window7

Months, dont remember how long.
Ill be getting some egg crate soon, need to level it up higher to the light.


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## discoveringmypath

Zapins said:


> They do grow faster when fully converted but I still think the growth rate is much faster in submersed plants in ideal conditions than emersed. 3 inches/week in submersed form vs. not even an inch emersed from what I've seen with many stems.


I just got my first immersed setup going today. I was under the impression that plants grow faster immersed? I guess I was wrong. I thought that was the whole benefit of it though.

Well no going back now lol. Your guide helped me with my setup. Thanks!


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## Zapins

Good to hear you are starting a setup! I'd love to see pictures.

There are lots of reasons to grow plants emersed - flowering them, ornamental house plants that rarely neex watering, beautiful displays (look up wabikusa and see what I mean) or to store plants you aren't using in your aquatium just yet.

I think the point of growing plants emersed like HC and other carpeting plants is that you can grow them without algae and with very little effort emersed. I'm planning a set of tests to compare growth rate in HC submersed and emmersed for proper data.


----------



## discoveringmypath

It's a 50G tub with 5 shoe box size storage containers. I have a little space for smaller containers if I want to add in the future. 

I'm using MPOCPM as substrate and water level is an inch under substrate level.

For lighting I have 3 20W 6500K CFL bulbs with the 8.5 inch reflectors. I think I have a lot of lighting so I'm wondering how long I should run the lights? Also, I'm running the lights at night because it is going to start getting cold at night. Temperature is my biggest concern, I'm thinking about getting a room heater that will kick on when the temp goes below a set value. I"m going to have some other tanks in the garage specifically for growing so could use the room heater instead of actual heaters in each tank.

There are slight gaps where the plexi glass is covering each hole because I didn't have enough to cover them completely. I figure this will help with it getting overly humid.

I have a range of different plants:

Java fern
Anubias
Bacopa
Staurogyne repens
Hydro sp. japan
Limnophila Aromatica
and a few others

Some I layed flat and others I planted straight up and down like I would in a tank. Looking forward to see how they do.

One day in and some seem like they are drying out, I figure this is normal and I will have to wait till the leaves die out and regrow in.

The biggest thing I like about the immersed setup is that I can set it and forget it. Just check every once in a while at the water level and add top offs. 

Looking forward to seeing how this goes!


Quick Question: when I transfer immersed growing plants into the tank, will the leafs die and grow back like going from submerged to immersed? Or is it a smother transition?

Thanks again for the inspiration!


----------



## Zapins

Great looking tubs! The funny thing with emersed plants is that they can take a lot more light than they can underwater. Well, more accurately a lot more light can be added without worrying about growing algae. You should run the lights for 10 hours or so. Changing over to a night schedule is a good idea. You'll also get reduced electricity rates at night. Someone on one of the forums was also dealing with cold growing conditions and added a plant seedling tray heater which worked nicely, you might want to try one of those if it gets too cold. Probably cheaper to run than a room heater.

Yes you'll lose some leaves to drying out.

I also love the set it and forget it part of emersed tubs. This is part of why I think they have great promise for substitute house plants - you basically never need to water them and they grow beautifully. Search for "Wabi kusa" and you'll see what I mean.

Wabi Kusa ex:









When you transfer to submersed conditions there will also be some die back in certain species. Sword plants tend to die back the most, others seem to take the change pretty well and there is little or no die back.

Also just for to avoid confusion when you talk with other hobbyists, as weird as it looks it is actually *E*mersed which is a specific term meaning "denoting or characteristic of an aquatic plant reaching above the surface of the water." Not *I*mmersed (which means submersed in a liquid or basically same thing as submersed).


----------



## discoveringmypath

Zapins said:


> Also just for to avoid confusion when you talk with other hobbyists, as weird as it looks it is actually *E*mersed which is a specific term meaning "denoting or characteristic of an aquatic plant reaching above the surface of the water." Not *I*mmersed (which means submersed in a liquid or basically same thing as submersed).


I thought something was wrong with immersed lol. When I type emersed the spell check highlights it, so I would change it. I'll remember that in the future 

The Wabi Kusa looks like a nice concept. I'll have to give that a try one of these days.


----------



## discoveringmypath

I have my first flower on my emersed setup. Bacopa Caroliniana.

My growth on the emersed setup has been extremely slow. I think it could be due to the fact that I have it in the garage and it has been getting cold at nights. I bought a small room heater to remedy this though and it helps to keep the room warmer through the night. 

I also think the humidity levels are too low. I think I could seal it better, and possible get better results. 

I have a question about rhizome plants. Do I need the rhizome under the substrate or on top of the substrate in an emersed setup? 


Thanks for input!


----------



## Zapins

Congrats on your bacopa flower. Its always nice to see flowers in the dead of winter.

A seedling tray heater would also work to heat the setup up.

Rhizomes like to be above the soil always.


----------



## discoveringmypath

Zapins said:


> Congrats on your bacopa flower. Its always nice to see flowers in the dead of winter.
> 
> A seedling tray heater would also work to heat the setup up.
> 
> Rhizomes like to be above the soil always.


Okay good, I have my rhizome plants above, just wanted to make sure. The seedling tray heater would be nice. Maybe when I get some extra cash I can spring for one.


----------



## captmicha

THANK YOU!!!! I was just wondering about this!!! FYI, Costco sells a pack of four of these tubs for around $15, I think. ALL clear, even the lids.


----------



## Zapins

Nice, good tip captmicha.


----------



## Cape

Excellent thread. One thing that does not make sense to me... If emersed form provides more hours of light, higher CO2 levels and more ferts, how is it possible to grow slower than submersed?


----------



## Tugg

The plant needs to expend a LOT more energy developing various tissues to hold in moisture and physically hold itself up.


----------



## Zapins

Cape said:


> Excellent thread. One thing that does not make sense to me... If emersed form provides more hours of light, higher CO2 levels and more ferts, how is it possible to grow slower than submersed?


This is a good question.

Submersed plants grow faster than emersed plants when grown in high tech (CO2 and high light) conditions, and sometimes even without high tech conditions. By grow faster I specifically mean submersed plants will grow more leaves and more stem tissue (they will take up more volume) than they will when grown emersed. Emersed grown plants may weigh more (the dry weight) for a given amount of time, but nobody cares about plant weight they care about surface coverage and how much of the tank is filled in by leaves and stems. Why do submersed plants grow faster you ask?

Because emersed plants must grow several more components than submersed plants in order to live. They must develop much larger roots since all their nutrients come from roots rather then stem, leaf and roots (slower nutrient absorption), emersed plants must make a wax cuticle which requires more energy, emersed plants must make stomata on the leaves to control dehydration and CO2 input, emersed plants must put more energy into reinforcing stems, leaves and other structural components to hold up against gravity. There are many other modifications that emersed plants must make on top of those listed above in order to survive in open air. Have you ever seen a stem plant grow 3-4 inches per week in an emersed setup? I never have, but submersed our plants routinely grow this much and sometimes more.

Just because there is a higher CO2 concentration in air doesn't mean plants are able to use 100% of that and grow that much faster.

Most submersed plants grow faster than emersed plants. There are many posts to back up this observation. Solcielo lawrencia's, my own experience, axelrod12's in this thread, and many others:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...tml#post663049


----------



## Sean W.

Hey guys,

i just took down my 110 gallon tank and had a few plants i didnt want to lose while i had some down time between tanks, ill be setting up a another tank in not too long, not sure if ill use a 20L or custom make a longer tank out of a scrap 40 gallon reptile tank yet. Anyway, wanted to save a few plants for whatever i decide to do, so i setup a emersed setup, id love any feedback. thanks!


----------



## Zapins

Hey Sean, I was busy the last few days driving up and down the East coast so I've been missing threads here and there.

Your setup looks good so far. The only suggestion I have for you is that you lower the water line a little bit. Ideally you want the water line below the surface of the soil by about an inch. So in your tank, lower the water level by 0.5-1 inch. This prevents the top of the soil from being soaking wet and causing fungal issues.

In a tank where the entire bottom is all soil like yours (and one of my personal setups) it will be difficult to keep the water line at the proper place since you can't easily see where the water is up to.

I've found that if you put some sort of clear container up against the glass between the soil and the glass (to add a little bit of space) you can more easily see the water line and know when to add water.

What are the plants on the place for the first few minutes of the video? I don't recall you mentioning the name?


----------



## asukawashere

Zapins said:


> What are the plants on the place for the first few minutes of the video? I don't recall you mentioning the name?


It's Alternanthera reineckii 'mini'-he mentions it a little past the halfway point.


----------



## Tanan

This is such an awesome thread. Now I can store all my plants and make my tank clutter free. A few questions though. 
1)If its slower than submersed then why people use dry start method?
2)Whats the max temp limit of an emersed setup? In tropical areas, my tank easily goes around 33C if I dont use fans. In an emersed setup with light directly sitting on the tub I will guess the temp will reach 35C easily. Will the plants survive? 
3)What kinda fertilization should (if) be used? Does it actually help the plants? What about normal terrestrial fertilizers? or foliage spray fertilizers?


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi Tanan,

Some plants grow slower emersed than submerged, some seem to grow faster. I use my emersed set-up as a plant bank for species I want to 'store' for future use. I keep my emersed set-up in our garage, it can get 33 degrees Celsius in the summer and down to 3 degrees Celsius in the winter. During high temperatures the trick that has worked for me is to keep very high humidity thereby avoiding loss of water from the plant during transpiration which results in wilting and death. That is the purpose of the "domes". Also, I have found that by maintaining high humidity the cuticle layer of the leaves stays thin allowing much easier transition from emersed to submerged growth when I move plants into my tanks. During winter I have my plant containers on heat mats that are thermostatically controlled so the containers seldom get below 10 degrees C.


----------



## Buckshot

What a great thread, just a question about sword plants, will they through out the shoots with the baby swords on them like they do when they submerged therefore multiplying?


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## Zapins

Yes they will. Glad you found the thread helpful.


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## Tanan

I finally started my emersed tank. Thanks to Zapins and everyone who posted here. You guys have been really helpful! 
It's a 20G with a 36W Osram 8000K PLL sitting on top of a glass lid.
The tanks completely sealed. 3 days since planting and not a single leaf has dried out. I dont know if its good or bad. 
I used the bigger seed trays. One upside down and the second one sitting on top of it. 
Plants are:
Rotala rotundifolia
H.corymbosa
H.polysperma (?)
H.polysperma 'sunset'
H.difformis
H.angustifolia
Hydrotyle verticilata
Hydrotyle sibthripoides
Bacopa caroliniana
E.tenellus (red one)
E.vesvius
Hemanthius micranthimoides
Ludwigia repens
Ludwigia repens 'rubin' (?)
Nesaea sp red (?)
Ammania crassicaulis
Dwarf sag


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## BruceF

Looking good. Obviously you need another one already!


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## Tanan

I know, right! 
This doesnt even have half the plants that I have in my main tank. 
BTW which one of these cant grow emersed or needs some special tinkering to grow emersed. 
Red Cabomba, myrio tuberculatum, riccia fluitans, susswasertung, willow moss, giant willow moss, banana plant.


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## Iggy8194

Looks great so far, you may want to leave the top cracked a bit too help avoid molds in the future, or at least a daily airing. As for that list, the Cabomba, and Banana plant are definitely true aquatics, not sure on the Myrio, and the Riccia and Susswasertung can be grown emmersed but don't do that great as they tend to change more than most and won't look too much like the submerged version.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## Zapins

Cabomba, susswasertung, and the banana plant won't grow emersed as far as I can remember. Cavan, miremonster and asukawashere would know for sure though.

The answer might actually be in the plantfinder descriptions http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/

Just click "view all entries" at the bottom and find the plants you want to read about.


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## drewsuf82

This guide....ugh I found a clear plastic bin at Wal*Mart tonight....will be going to home depot tomorrow to buy some dirt......

Want to try a few plants to see what happens


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## Zapins

Sounds good drew. Be sure to post some photos of your setup and how the plants do.

I've got some plants I just put into an emersed tank, so I'll post those later when I get some time.


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## drewsuf82

Zapins said:


> Sounds good drew. Be sure to post some photos of your setup and how the plants do.
> 
> I've got some plants I just put into an emersed tank, so I'll post those later when I get some time.


Just got done adding plants, it maintained approx 90-95% humidity overnight and through to the lights on here an hour ago! humidity dropped to about 70% while I was adding some plants! gave them a good misting and sealed it up. I'll start a thread there and post a picture or two here.


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## drewsuf82

Here's the bin currently, I've got a lot more pics and such in the thread I started down below


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## pandragon

Someone might have asked this already, but I couldn't find it:

How do you keep mold, mildew, and other ick from growing in such high humidity, heat, and light?


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## Zapins

Your setup looks great! The plants will grow in over the next few months and look great. 

You can use moss to reduce mold. But it generally doesn't tend to grow for some reason. You don't necessarily want to keep the setup damp, just moist. More water in the beginning then less later on as the plants grow in emersed leaves. 

The plants will eventually lose all their submersed leaves.


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## drewsuf82

Zap ins, my humidity is stable at 90% should I be misting?


----------



## Zapins

Nope, you don't need to mist.

The thing is, you'll lose submersed leaves no matter if you mist or not. Leaves that are formed under water will never be able to adapt to above water conditions no matter how much you mist and let them transition. They will eventually dry out and die.

This is because they lack a wax cuticle that covers the leaf (when grown out of water) and keeps the moisture in. At some point the submersed leaves will dry out and die and trying to keep them alive by misting will not really help the plant out long term since new emersed leaves will grow. As long as the stem or roots do not dry out and die then the plant will grow.

It does take several weeks - months to fully convert to emersed form so it is more a "set it and forget it" kind of project.


----------



## pandragon

Then they have to do the opposite when transitioning to submersed, right? I am starting to think that is the reasons my ozelot swords are taking forever to grow. I think they were grown emerged for the store, small oval leaves that have died off and new longer, more sword like leaves are growing, still not growing tall like in pics of other swords I have seen. 

Does it normally take a long time to convert from emerged to submersed or only the other way around?


----------



## Zapins

Yes, converting takes a while in both cases because only the new leaves are adapted to being under water or above water. The other leaves usually die off when switched. You essentially need to wait for the entire plant to regenerate itself in the emersed form or submersed form each time you transition.

Some species are better at this than others and can handle an emersed to submersed transition without losing older leaves. Sword plants are not one of these adaptable species. They lose all their old leave both ways.

You can post pics of your sword plant in the deficiency forum and I can have a look at them for you if you are worried about them.


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## pandragon

I am not too worried about them yet, they seem better than before. All the old leaves melted away and new leaves are growing, just slower than the "moderately fast" growth rate I have read about. I have to keep trimming my hygros and wisteria so they don't choke out the swords every week or so due to the swords slooooooowwwwww growth.

Thanks for the reminder about the deficiency forum though, Zap. You are a great help and huge store of knowledge on all nutrient related plant problems!


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## Zapins

No problem pandragon. Glad to know you find the deficiency forum and the info helpful.


----------



## drewsuf82

Gave a three week update to my bin below feel free to drop in and add any suggestions if you have them


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## sotiris

Nice to meet you all! 
I just registered to the forum, because im interested to start a little emersed plan. im thinking to do something like this in the picture. I have to say that i am from Greece and we have a lot of sunlight even now in Winter so i m planning to start a project with only natural sunlight. I will put the box near to the window for natural light. The temp. of my house is 20-22 οC Do you think that this may work good?And i have an other question, i have a little flourite *black sand (seachem)* and *tropica's plant growth substrate*, can i mix them and make soil for the emersed plants or can i use them separately?
Thanks again especially for the informations of this topic and the creator!!


----------



## Zapins

Hey sotiris, glad to have you on APC! I'm also Greek, used to live in Athens, where do you live?

I think your plan sounds good. The main issue you will have to worry about is overheating inside the box. If it is kept indoors and gets only a few hours of direct light a day it will very likely be fine. If it is outside under the sun all day in a closed box... then maybe not  The sun can get pretty intense over there, especially during the summer.

If you are just growing the plants in an emersed tub and do not plan to submerse it later on then you can grow them directly on the soil with no cap. This means you wouldn't have to cover the soil with seachem or tropica's substrate. Basically these substrates are inert (no nutrients in them), they just look nice and give the plants something to hold onto when they are growing underwater.


----------



## sotiris

Zapins said:


> Hey sotiris, glad to have you on APC! I'm also Greek, used to live in Athens, where do you live?
> 
> I think your plan sounds good. The main issue you will have to worry about is overheating inside the box. If it is kept indoors and gets only a few hours of direct light a day it will very likely be fine. If it is outside under the sun all day in a closed box... then maybe not  The sun can get pretty intense over there, especially during the summer.
> 
> If you are just growing the plants in an emersed tub and do not plan to submerse it later on then you can grow them directly on the soil with no cap. This means you wouldn't have to cover the soil with seachem or tropica's substrate. Basically these substrates are inert (no nutrients in them), they just look nice and give the plants something to hold onto when they are growing underwater.


Nice to hear that you are also Greek, I'm living in Karditsa and I studied in University of Thessaly in Volos aquaculture and aquatic environment and now I'm ichthyologist. 
I'm just thinking if it is safe to grow the emersed plants, with common plant soil, because I'm planning to submerse them later.


----------



## sotiris

I couldn't wait anymore so i started the project. A plastic bottle of water, some common soil and a little tablet to fertilise the soil and finally some _Ludwigia sp. repens_. The last picture shows where i placed the plants for sunlight in front of my "window". Im waiting for your opinion? Thanks again.


----------



## sotiris

I have on more question. I'm looking to buy a led strip 5630, and I was wondering if the red or white light strip would be better for the emersed plants!


----------



## Zapins

sotiris your plant bottles look good! Are they doing well so far?

As for LED lighting, I haven't read too much about them. I think there are some nice LEDs out there but I think there are also some LED strips that are pretty much useless, you should post a question in the lighting section on this site and one of the others who has used LEDs more extensively can help you.

I personally prefer T5 high output lights, the ones they sell as "grow lights" for hydroponics are usually pretty good and cheap.


----------



## sotiris

Zapins said:


> sotiris your plant bottles look good! Are they doing well so far?
> 
> As for LED lighting, I haven't read too much about them. I think there are some nice LEDs out there but I think there are also some LED strips that are pretty much useless, you should post a question in the lighting section on this site and one of the others who has used LEDs more extensively can help you.
> 
> I personally prefer T5 high output lights, the ones they sell as "grow lights" for hydroponics are usually pretty good and cheap.


Thanks a lot Napkins, ludwigia, shooted a new little stem. Do you think that it is normal? That's how it comes to the emersed form?


----------



## Daniil

I have a question.
Does anybody uses any type of heaters: space heater or aquarium heater to keep the right temperature for the plants?


----------



## Zapins

sotiris said:


> Thanks a lot Napkins, ludwigia, shooted a new little stem. Do you think that it is normal? That's how it comes to the emersed form?


Ha, napkins 

Yes, they need to grow new leaves and stems in the emersed form. The old parts that were grown underwater will not convert.



Daniil said:


> I have a question.
> Does anybody uses any type of heaters: space heater or aquarium heater to keep the right temperature for the plants?


Not usually unless the temperature gets below about 60F, anything down to around there will be keep growing decently. I suppose you could use one of those lizard heat pads if the aquarium gets too cold, though I don't know much more about how they work or what kind of temperature control you could expect to get with them.


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## SmokeySparrow

Greetings! This thread has been so helpful and quite interesting! I'm new to this forum and emersed set ups in general and have a few questions I hope can be answered. I've heard you can dilute ferts into your mister to help moss grow better. Is there any truth to this? if so, how much should I dilute? Also, I heard the same method works with glutaraldehyde to prevent or help rid your set-up of any fungus, algae or similar problems. Is there any truth to this as well? if so, how much should be diluted? 

I personally feel the metricide would be of no use if your set-up was properly excuted and possibly harm some plant species who may be sensitive to the chemical but if you had an existing problem, fungus or otherwise, it might be of use. As for the liquid fert I feel it could possibly help the moss but also possibly harm other plants aside from the moss who would not need such treatment, that is if the moss would even benefit from it in the first place. 

I have metricide 14 @ 2.6% dilution and the basic flourish liquid fert. 

I have used glutaral to great effect in my aquariums as an algaecide. Just wondering if its uses could be broadened to another aspect of this hobby.


----------



## Daniil

I would like to share my emersed setup. 

I am using DIY lights 4 light 24" t8, 2 of them are 5000k and 2 are 6500k. Staying on for 12 hours. 
For the soil I used organic potting soil. 
It has been set up for about a week.


----------



## sotiris

Daniil said:


> I would like to share my emersed setup.
> 
> I am using DIY lights 4 light 24" t8, 2 of them are 5000k and 2 are 6500k. Staying on for 12 hours.
> For the soil I used organic potting soil.
> It has been set up for about a week.


Very nice setup. Have you seen any change er new leaves? If saw right you are using a heater which i think is not necessary! 
Friendly Sotiris


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## Daniil

I don't see any changes yet. 

I am using heater because at night temperature still drops to 27*F in the garage. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sotiris

Hi to everyone,
i have to apologise that because of Zapin's perfect topic i am now addicted on emersed setup and through experimentations i hope to reach on a nice result! I made a channel on youtube because i would like to share everything with you guys! Check my first video with the plants i took for my setup and i will upload a new video every week! *Like *and *subscribe *if you like!





Thanks,

Sotiris


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## jamesthornton24

This is epic! I have an old exotera that's ventilated, used to care for Geckos and scorpions in there. Not at the same time. I wonder how well that would work. Man I'm excited to get my new plants now! Looks like I may set some to the side for later. 

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## thodoris111

hi!
this is my emersed setup i just made with things i found in the garage 
the light is 15 w . What do you thing? is an overkill? it will damage my plants?


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## BruceF

Be careful of the heat there. Is that a plastic bottle?


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## thodoris111

BruceF said:


> Be careful of the heat there. Is that a plastic bottle?


yep


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## osmelvillarreal

Hello everyone just had a question to see if anyone here has done it before. would the transition between submerged and emersed happen more smoothly if a tank was done with a dirt bottom with a real small cap of sand or grave to keep the dirt in place and then plant like in an aquarium but only filling the tank enugh to cover the tallest plant and just let the water evaporate over time.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## dawntwister

I know this is an old thread. Very interesting thread. Was wondering how you know without a meter if you have too much humidity? 

Since the lid is not be on tightly animals could get in. Would having a screen on the front 2in. be okay?


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## Zapins

*dawntwister *- too much humidity isn't usually a problem unless water is condensing onto the plant leaves inside and sitting there. As long as you aren't misting the tub and as long as the temperature doesn't wildly fluctuate (causing dew that doesn't evaporate) you shouldn't have too much humidity.

The real issue is when your water line is too high. Too closer to the surface of the soil and it doesn't let the plant roots and base breathe enough and promotes the growth of fungus which rots and kills the plants. Best to make sure the water line is at least 2 inches below the surface of the soil.

A screen would be a great idea. It will prevent critters getting in.

*osmelvillarreal *- don't know how I missed your question for so long, but to answer it I don't think adding a small cap would change the conversion time between emersed and submersed. That time is relatively fixed. The plant can only convert at a certain speed in normal air. If you wanted to speed up the process you could raise the temperature slightly to increase metabolism and growth and add more CO2. Only those 2 changes would have any measurable effect on the rate of growth.


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## dawntwister

Thanks for the info Zapins. Now I know it is possible to do with an expensive mister.

I had put alternanthera mini planted in a pot in a 10g tank with plastic over the tank tight. There was plenty humidity. I think it probably died due lack of oxygen.


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## Zapins

Could have been, though you might also be right with your first suspicion of it being too wet/humid in there. A fully sealed tank can be too wet and promote fungus growth. Hard to say without good close up photos. You'll get it right with a bit of experimentation though! 

On a 10 gallon tank I'd keep the lid open leaving a gap that runs the length of the tank about 1" wide. Wider than that and the tank dries out too much, less of a gap an you get a lot of condensation on the glass (which isn't necessarily bad, but you can't see anything inside).


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## Notg2009

Reviving the old thread! Thanks to Zapin and everyone for all the info. I would like to know of different ways of dealing with fungus that sometimes grows in the emersed setups and dry starts. I have tried h2o2, glutaraldehyde, pimafix, and even adding springtails but the fungus returns.

Any suggestions?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## hoppycalif

Welcome to APC - it looks like this is your first post. I doubt that Zapins is still monitoring this thread, but others probably know the answer.


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## LouisTheGreat

How about ventilation if you keep the box closed during the whole month?


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