# Need help finalizing a fertizing dosing strategy.



## tim_s (Oct 25, 2012)

Hi Everyone,

My setup is a little complex but my original goal was to optimize for fish and then add live plants later on - which just in the end added a lot of new challenges.

*Tank*

90 Gallon Display Tank
30 Gallon Sump (Wet / Dry removed - running wet LOL)

*Fish*

1 X Bristle nose pleco
6 X Discus 3.5" -> 4"
6 X Bolivian Rams

*Plants*

1 X Crypt
1 X Amazon Sword
1 X Water Sprite
1 X Sea Grass
1 X unknown plant

All seem green and growing excluding the Amazon Sward which is half and half! The Crypt unfortunately is being peeked at but seems to be thriving.

*Lighting*

Tek-Elite 4 x T5HO from Sun Supply Inc.

T5 Tubes

2 X Giesemann Actinic white
1 X Giesemann Daytime
1 X Giesemann Coralife

*Ferts*

Currently only dosing Seachem Flourish Comprehensive.

Tank Params

Amm. 0 PPM
Nitrite. 0 PPM

Before Plants - Nitrate 5 PPM
After Plants - Nitrate 0 PPM

*Substrate*

Bottom Layer - Gravel
Top Layer - Sand

*Questions*

The challenge I am facing is that their is about 101 different ways of doing this. Documentation differs, recommendations are not consistent.

- I attempted to measure Co2 saturation through the pH / KH chart, however, my substrate has caused a little buffering.

- I was recommended to keep raising the Co2 until the fish appear to be challenged, however, my fish are $200.00 and challenging them does not sound in my interest. I have creeped it up to 11 BPS

- currently I am sitting around 7 BPS as this far exceeds any recommendations I can find from anyone.

- 50% of people are telling me Seachem Flourish line will do great and just follow the dosing instructions / 50% of people are telling me I will go through the bottles a week.

*I am trying to get some clarity.*


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## nilocg (Sep 14, 2010)

A drop checker and 4dkh fluid will be the most cost effective and will be fairly accurate way to measure co2. As for the seachem ferts they will work very well but will be quite costly on a tank your size. Dry ferts will provide you the same or possibly better results for a fraction of the cost.


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## wwh2694 (Aug 15, 2008)

Hello I been in this situation before where I have expensive fish (discus) and live plants together. Doing this is really hard, I eventually had to ditch my discus coz I couldn't do both. I had a lot of problems keeping my plants in good shape and the same time keeping my fish the same too. If I where u I would just concentrate on the fish if that's your goal. If u decide to go to both I would suggest to use pps pro coz since you will not have 75% of ur tank covered with plants and 90 to 100 percent bottom substrate covered with plants. I u look at the ADA Japan tanks u will see they don't use expensive fish on their setup and they concentrate mostly on the plants. If plants are doing good they fish will too.


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## tim_s (Oct 25, 2012)

nilocg said:


> A drop checker and 4dkh fluid will be the most cost effective and will be fairly accurate way to measure co2. As for the seachem ferts they will work very well but will be quite costly on a tank your size. Dry ferts will provide you the same or possibly better results for a fraction of the cost.


Have you ever had an issue where the regent was accidentally released in the tank?


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## tim_s (Oct 25, 2012)

wwh2694 said:


> Hello I been in this situation before where I have expensive fish (discus) and live plants together. Doing this is really hard, I eventually had to ditch my discus coz I couldn't do both. I had a lot of problems keeping my plants in good shape and the same time keeping my fish the same too. If I where u I would just concentrate on the fish if that's your goal. If u decide to go to both I would suggest to use pps pro coz since you will not have 75% of ur tank covered with plants and 90 to 100 percent bottom substrate covered with plants. I u look at the ADA Japan tanks u will see they don't use expensive fish on their setup and they concentrate mostly on the plants. If plants are doing good they fish will too.


For sure! Being the cost factor I will primarily be focusing Discus care .. I am not sure why Discus would be an issue. As long as the parameters are correct - should not have an issue!


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## nilocg (Sep 14, 2010)

tim_s said:


> Have you ever had an issue where the regent was accidentally released in the tank?


It is very unlikely that it would be released into the tank, even if it did I can't imagine it would have any effect even on the most sensitive fish.


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## tim_s (Oct 25, 2012)

OK!

I broke down LOL I have an RO DI machine I will make the 4dKH solution tonight and install the checker.


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## tim_s (Oct 25, 2012)

My next question,

I am phoning around for trace mix and I keep saying,

"Chelated Trace Element Mix (TNC Trace, CSM+B)"

The response I keep getting is,

"We do not care about brands - what % would you like the chelated mix?"


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## nilocg (Sep 14, 2010)

So are you looking for a micronutrient supplement or are you looking for chelated iron by itself?


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## tim_s (Oct 25, 2012)

I am looking for a micronutrient supplement.

I am using Flourish at the moment.


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## tim_s (Oct 25, 2012)

I prepped the 4 dKH solution for the pH drop tester.

Not too much of a surprised it has shown that it is on the low side - between the overflows / sump / needle valve losing it's position I can see this is going to become more challenging to keep the Co2 high.


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

Here's the three most popular micronutrients used by the petalphile (now http://rota.la ) calcs:


```
Plantex CSM+B:
  Fe:     0.0653
  Mn:     0.0187
  Cu:     0.0009
  Mg:     0.014
  Zn:     0.0037
  Mo:     0.0005
  B:      0.008
Miller's MicroPlex:
  Fe:     0.04
  Mn:     0.04
  Mg:     0.0543
  Zn:     0.014
  Mo:     0.001
  B:      0.005
  Co:     0.0005
  Cu:     0.015
Rexolin APN:
  Fe:     0.06
  Mn:     0.024
  Cu:     0.0025
  Mo:     0.0025
  Zn:     0.013
  B:      0.011
```
(You can get all (or add to!) the stuff used by the calculator here: https://github.com/flores/yet-another-nutrient-calculator/tree/master/constants )

Notice you generally want high Fe in relation to Cu. This does not mean you have to avoid particularly high Cu ferts (see Microplex for example), but if you choose this route it's a good idea to pick up some DTPA Fe as well. You can then mix them in some proportion and likely make a pretty good trace mix.


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