# Algae ID Needed and cure?



## Aeropars (Apr 20, 2006)

After movign over to EI methods Ihave this algea growing on the glass, plants and bogwood.

Here are the pictures:





































Whay type is it? I dont know if its green dust or green spot.

Also, how can I get rid of this?


----------



## Tonka (Mar 20, 2004)

My guess is that on the wood and leaves you have the beginnings of BBA and on the glass GDA. The former can be treated with overdoses of Excel and IMHO you are stuck with the latter. GDA is minimized in my tank by keeping nutrients within optimum ranges, wiping frequently, using a micropad in my filter, and occassionally blasting my filter outflow with UV. Another method for GDA is espoused in several threads on APC. 

BTW, that is an especially attractive piece of driftwood.


----------



## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

That is either green dust or green spot algae. Both should be able to be controlled by dosing a little bit more phosphate. Keep upping the dosage slightly until you start to see it disappear or at least stop growing.


----------



## Aeropars (Apr 20, 2006)

How should I continue to to ferting the other macro's and trace? As normal with higher phosphates?

I thought high phosphates was a bad idea? Excuse my ignorance on this. I have read people saying phosphate is not the sole cause ofe algae but never found out why.


----------



## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

Higher phosphates shouldn't hurt anything. Only increase the phosphates. If you change other things at the same time you won't know what did or didn't fix things.


----------



## Aeropars (Apr 20, 2006)

Is there any explanation as to why this method works?

I beleive you, i'm just surious to the science behind it.

For example, my tank has 4 capfuls at water change to get the target ppm. If i add another capful per dose, would this be ok?


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Phosphates don't cause algae. If there are other things wrong with the tank, such as low or no CO2, low or no nitrates, no traces, too much light for too long, etc., then high phosphates might contribute to algae. As long as the fertilizers, CO2 and light are reasonably in balance increasing phosphates should hurt nothing. Also, the "correct" dosage of any of the fertilizers is a hazy target, so, doubling the phosphate dosage from what is listed as the correct dosage isn't likely to do any harm. When I have done this I have done it a little at a time until I see the green spot algae not growing bigger. Right now I am at about twice the EI recommended phosphate dosage.


----------



## Aeropars (Apr 20, 2006)

Right... i'll double it then and see how we go.

Do you think i have BBA in there too? I've been reading up on how to rid of this and it appears its going to be a right pain if thats the case according to the algefinder.


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I don't see anything that looks like BBA in the photos. It is very easy to spot - disgusting tufts of black stuff, generally starting on the edges of leaves, and usually leaves not in good health.


----------



## Aeropars (Apr 20, 2006)

OK, so 2 days in and no improvement. The stuff comes back on the glass every 2 days or so.

Any idea how long this method takes? Just curious so I know how long to keep an eye on it.


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Aeropars said:


> OK, so 2 days in and no improvement. The stuff comes back on the glass every 2 days or so.
> 
> Any idea how long this method takes? Just curious so I know how long to keep an eye on it.


Now you are describing green dust algae, GDA, one of the algae that takes hard work and patience to get rid of. For awhile we thought that just allowing that algae to grow unmolested for 3 weeks then scraping it off would get rid of it. But, it now looks, to me at least, that you also need to follow that let it grow out method with a very good cleaning, keeping as much as possible of the scraped off algae out of the water, fluffing the plants, wiping down all of the glass, gently cleaning the substrate, and two consecutive big water changes, like 75% to get rid of as much floating algae as possible. Dose Excel at 1.5X the water change dosage. Then wait a day and do the same cleaning and Excel dosing again. Then, wait another day or two and do it again. I tried it that way, with a 3 day black out after the first cleaning, and it seems to have worked - that was a couple of months ago.


----------



## Aeropars (Apr 20, 2006)

Actually, it might not be 2 days but its not much longer so i presume thats what it is.

How do you dust the plants?!


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

You don't "dust" the plants, you use your fingers to slosh water around them to wash off the accumulated mulm, and get it out from under them so it can be removed easier. The algae on the plant leaves, if it is a green fuzz, seems to leave at the same time that the algae on the glass finishes its life cycle. I don't know why super cleaning the tank would be that effective, and I don't know if it is just one of the steps that is really effective. That I leave to someone willing to do some testing to find out.


----------



## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

btw, you also have bba. on the leaves of anubias in the left side of this picture:









break off the leaves or do a bleach dip (1-19 parts bleach to water for 2-3 minutes)

or maybe your leaves are just dead??? sorry if I'm miss leading you, it's hard to tell in the pick. (the black on the leaves)


----------



## Aeropars (Apr 20, 2006)

Yes, i thought thats what it was. I seem to get it just on the slow growers.


----------



## Aeropars (Apr 20, 2006)

woh hang on....

So then, Green Spot needs more phosphate yet BBA is because phosphates are in abundance...

So where do i go from here with that? It contradicts each other. Head smash!!


----------



## Tonka (Mar 20, 2004)

OK. Hold on.

Everybody would agree that algae is minimized in a "balanced" tank. You just need to find the proper balance for your tank. EI is a great starting point, in that it ensures that all nutrients are present in abundance and then frequent water changes keep you from having too much of a good thing.

Before you mess with EI, I suggest that you manipulate your photoperiod, try feeding your fish less, check for incident sunshine, overdose Excel, and most importantly jack up your CO2 levels.

A drop checker using a standardized KH solution will tell you your actual CO2 concentration. In my tank, I can add CO2 until the tank's (not the drop checker's) pH is 6.1 to 6.3 indicating an alledged concentration (according to the chart at a KH of 3.1) of 47 to 74 ppm. You probably can add much more CO2 to your tank before your fish are uncomfortable. Raising CO2 is singularly the best and quickest means of minimizing algae.


----------



## Aeropars (Apr 20, 2006)

OK, i might not have given everything to you in terms of Concentrations.

I have a KH solution of 4 (made with good RO water)
It shows a green to yellow colour indicating more than 30ppm.
I change with tp water whicn on my last check was about 4 - 5 ppm according to test kit

I dont have the water pressure to get an RO unit although cash isnt a problem. But getting is really expensive and labour intensive.

I've had the BBA issue really since i started. I have a coldwaret tank to check against which has a java fern in and changed with tap water. but BBA is really only a smaller problem than the newly established spot algae

Does that give you a better idea?


----------



## Aeropars (Apr 20, 2006)

OK, today is the day i dont fret the tank. Tomorrow is the 50% water change. Yesterday I dosed Trace elements.

Here is a full set of test conducted today. All tests conducted with the Nutrafin (haagen) test kits:

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 5 to 10
Iron - 0.1 to 0.25
KH - 6.2 (11 drops of the test kit converted in chucks planted aquarium calc)
GH - 14 drops (Not sure what the eqution is to get to degrees)
Phosphate - 5
CO2 - Around 30ppm checked with a 4kh reference solution and drop checker in tank
Ph according to testkit - Between 7 to 6.5
Ph according to PH probe in tank - 6.55

I have been dosing double the amount of phosphate to combat this but now i'm not so sure the phosphate was down to zero at any point.

Can anyone help me with where to go with this?


----------



## Tonka (Mar 20, 2004)

The Hagan test kit I had would have you multiply the number of drops by 20 and then by .056 to get GH. Yours is 15-16.

Your iron result is typical of no matter how much iron you have added. Complexed iron breaks down and precipitates out of the water column very quickly. Iron test kits do not give results that are actionable. Instead add 0.3 ppm per day (or so).

I would calibrate your NO3 and PO4 test kits. If you act on these results and increase the former and decrease the latter, you might be going the wrong way (up or down) with either or both of them. You might also want to calibrate your electrode, if you haven't done so recently.

The good news is that your CO2 levels are healthy.

I have had dreadful experience with hobbiest test kits and have now switched entirely to LaMotte. OTOH, the outlay was huge and I am not doing anything now that I wouldn't have done just dosing and changing water as recommended. I just have the comfort(?) of knowing somewhat more of where levels my nutrients are at.

Finally, once you make a fundamental change, like upping PO4, it takes weeks to see its full effect - especially with regard to algae. If I were you, I'd dose after your water change to recommended levels for all nutrients, then dose daily the sugggested amounts (for example, 2 ppm NO3, 0.4 ppm PO4, and 0.3 ppm iron; KNO3 takes care of K). Once you confirm the accuracy of your test kits, you can then make the appropriate adjustments. Consistency is important for two reasons, to give a chance to your plants to adapt and for you to get control so you can see effects of incremental changes.


----------



## Aeropars (Apr 20, 2006)

How do you calibrate a test kit? I thought they would be accurate from the start and already calibrated?


----------



## Tonka (Mar 20, 2004)

Sadly, no.

Do you have access to a gram scale? If so, bring one gram of KNO3 up to one liter with distilled, deionized, or RO water. (If you use tap water, you may have some NO3 already in it skewing results). This solution, according to the Fertilator is 613 ppm NO3.

Then take 16.3 ml of this solution and bring it up to one liter, again with "pure" water. This solution is now your new 10.0 ppm standard solution.
[x ml = (10 mg x 1000 ml)/613 mg].

Now use your test kit. If the test kit shows 20 then your kit it's off by a factor of 2. If it shows 5, it's off by a factor of 1/2. Thus, if you test your aquarium and guesstimate a "7", with the former calibration, your actual concentration is closer to "14". How are you at distinguishing subtle shades of pink? My Hagen kit is off by a factor of 2.5 when I cross-tested with a calibrated LaMotte kit.

Use the same technique to calibrate your PO4 kit.

You might think this is a PITA. You'd be right - it is. But unless you do this, you'll probably be acting on bad results and never get control of your tank. Of course, like me, you could fool yourself into thinking that you have achieved control, but actually you haven't because this hobby humbles (or should humble) us all.


----------



## Aeropars (Apr 20, 2006)

Heres a couple of tests just after a 50% water change.

Phosphate - 5
Nitrate - Just under 5

With this in mind, i presume i shouldnt dose phosphate just yet but dose in more nitrate?? Wait until during the week for phosphate?


----------



## Tonka (Mar 20, 2004)

Did you calibrate your test kits? If not, then you don't know what your levels are and you don't know how much to add. Calibrate once and save the solution for future calibrations and you can act with confidence. If not, you will be one of the multitude guessing about what is going on in their tank and wondering why it is out of control.


----------



## Aeropars (Apr 20, 2006)

I havent as yet, its been a busy day. With the EI method, i thought it was a case of minimal testing? Seems I'm doing an awful lot of late


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Aeropars said:


> I havent as yet, its been a busy day. With the EI method, i thought it was a case of minimal testing? Seems I'm doing an awful lot of late


Testing isn't needed for the EI method. If you want to learn more about what's in the water, or think knowing more about what's in the water will help with troubleshooting, then testing is a good idea. But, you need to calibrate the test kits if you plant to take any action based on what the results are.


----------



## Aeropars (Apr 20, 2006)

So if I didnt test, how would I go about combating algae? This is all so confusing.


----------

