# Nitrite issue in my 20 gallon?



## EcleckticGirl (Jul 26, 2005)

Another of my sale Otos died.  Took a while to find the wasted away critter too. I finally had to pull out driftwood and plants to find the little guy. Boy, am I glad for those plant weights and un-planted bunches in the back row.

Anyway in taking in the fish for credit and the requisite water sample, I was informed that I have high nitrites and shown the little purple tube of water and the lovely data array of colors showing that zero nitrates is clear water and my water was the next level up. The sales girl waved it a little too fast for me to see if it actually was the first or second level, but she was appalled said it should be zero if I wanted to add new fish and showed it to the manager who proceeded to lecture me about what I should do to bring them down. The kit they use is Aquatic Pharmaceuticals and the box housing it looked rather old and delapidated. 

Anyway I am reluctant to change out my charcoal filter considering that I have only been growing culture on this one for just over 2 weeks now. I just vacced the bottom of the tank to get out uneaten food and decaying leaves from that H. zosterfolia that I can't seem to keep out of everything the day before. The Cherry red shrimp colony seems to be developing fine. Should I do another vacc of the gravel as suggested with a greater water change?

Just what should I be doing? Should I trust their kit? Should I take a sample to have Matt test with his LaMott kit before I do another midweek small water change?


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## titan97 (Feb 14, 2005)

I'd leave the filter floss in place to help it "grow" more bacteria, faster. Cleaning out the food and waste is a good way to help, but in the end, the tank must cycle by itself. You can help it along with the addition of some pre-cultured mulm or filter floss from an established aquarium. But if you are seeing no ammonia and a little bit of nitrite, then you are already on your way. BTW, I think you'd have to have a large amount of nitrite to hurt an oto. Maybe 3ppm or more, at least. They tend to be pretty hardy, in general.

-Dustin


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## EcleckticGirl (Jul 26, 2005)

Thanks, Titan. I have been watching to see if got a reply tonight. I didn't quite trust the advice from the store manager. It is a new set up, but it's Eco complete and I did inject mulm in the substrate a few days after it was set up after moving it to my place, so it is getting a good bacteria start. 

I don't think the Oto dying had anything to do with my tank, but the wild-caught little guy couldn't deal with any stress and never ate, never explored much -- unlike the lively one left.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

I don't trust AP kits at all! They are pretty inaccurate in my experience. There is a poston here somewhere where someone compared all of his kits to some LaMotte kits and the differences were fairly large. It's a shame LFS's don't hve a better kit with which to check their levels. I can't help you much with the nitrite test, I only have a nitrate kit.

I would've asked for a second test of the water before I left the store. I have found *some *LFS employees don't have much experience and they definately don't care as much about your water quality as you do! I'm always leary of someone else testing my water...Hell, I still read my LaMotte kit each time I test to make sure I do it right  I've been doing it the same way for almost 2 years now!

Here's a link to expiration dates on test kits:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php

I'd double check the date on the stores bottle if you are worried about getting a replacement Oto. I'd watch the person doing the test closely also.

If it were me, I would probably leave the tank alone! Then again, I'm lazy that way  With the exception of the Oto, which is a difficult fish to acclimate in the first place, how is the rest of the tank doing? I would go by that before I would trust an AP kit but that is me and I'm kinda weird about test kits!

Didn't you say the store had lots of DOA Otos or was that another store?


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## Simpte 27 (Jul 16, 2004)

I agree with Matt's assessment with the AP kit, though the nitrate kit is probably the best test in it. Otos are hardy, once they acclimate. When a store has them on sale, its usually because they have a huge supply of them. They don't travel well especially to the petstore. Then they are shipped again when people buy them. Its best to wait 2 weeks before buying otos from a lfs. Check for a pale color also. These are stressed otos and are not healthy.


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## EcleckticGirl (Jul 26, 2005)

The first one I took back the manager OK'd the credit before he even ran the test and I am pretty sure he only ran an ammonia test. 

This return, she had to be reminded how to do the test, and I had heard you guys discussing this kit before as in that it's not much better than the dipsticks. She ran every water parameter in the kit and this was the only one off. The ammonia was fine. Someone in a chatroom asked where is the nitrite coming from if the ammonia is fine? Which was a very good question.

I did get credit on this one too. The Thursday night manager said he would honor the 79 cent price for me since I really want a school of 6 and will order in when they aren't on special and getting crappy fish. He also said he would extend the fish garauntee another 7 days (though this last guy seems to be thriving) unlike this other guy who had color and was hard to catch I knew wouldn't make it after the 2nd day. The one that swam into the venturi reactor might have made it, but nooo he just had to be lively, active and curious and he killed himself. Stupid fish.


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## Rob Tetrazona (Jun 21, 2005)

Your new 20 gallon tank may not be established enough for Otos yet. I know they only eat a certain type of algae. I remember killing lots of Otos and common plecos before I had an established, planted tank. I haven't tried Otos in serveral months now, but would probably get better results.

How many fish are in your new tank? I know it's only a couple of weeks old, but it may be overcrowded and need more frequent water changes until the biological filter gets established.


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## EcleckticGirl (Jul 26, 2005)

rwoehr said:


> Your new 20 gallon tank may not be established enough for Otos yet. I know they only eat a certain type of algae. I remember killing lots of Otos and common plecos before I had an established, planted tank. I haven't tried Otos in serveral months now, but would probably get better results.
> 
> How many fish are in your new tank? I know it's only a couple of weeks old, but it may be overcrowded and need more frequent water changes until the biological filter gets established.


Only that dozen or so Endlers and now the one Oto. I figured with the mass of Java fern coming from Matt's established tank, the Eco complete, the crypt coming from Damon's tank, other plants from established tanks, the Eco complete substrate with it's bacteria starter, the mulm I injected into it, as well as the planted tank silent cycle Tom Barr mentioned, that I should be OK.

I know the rule of thumb about waiting for fish to settle in before buying them from the LFS. I figured at the 79 cent price they would go fast. I also reasoned that with my planted tank they would have a better chance of surviving than in the relatively sterile environment of a store display tank, or that of an uninformed hobbyist buying a cheap fish.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Simpte 27 said:


> Its best to wait 2 weeks before buying otos from a lfs.


I had the opposite experience when living in Southern MD. The store could not keep Otos alive for more than a few days, let alone two weeks! It just so happened I was in the store as they began floating their Otos in a bag. I purchased my Otos directly from the shipping bag and feel this may have reduced their stress somewhat. Almost all of them survived!

I think this is due to the fact that they did not have to go from the shipping water, acclimate to the LFS water, and then acclimate to my water. Three different water sources in one day, that has to be tough.

Imagine if you had to move to three homes in totally different areas over the course of one day. Add to this the fact that they were probably not held in optimum conditions at the wholesaler/breeder and may have traveled several days if they were wild caught! Talk about stress!

Needless to say, I now try to buy my fish directly from the shipping bag whenever I can or from other hobbyists.


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## Simpte 27 (Jul 16, 2004)

That works also, but what are the odds one is in the lfs as they are floating the oto bags?


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Simpte 27 said:


> That works also, but what are the odds one is in the lfs as they are floating the oto bags?


Ya just gotta ask  The LFS in MD knew almost down to the minute when they would get their shipment. They were very helpful with things like that but not great with the plants.

I have asked a few places around here also...Jack's (Miamisburg) gets their shipments on Tuesdays but that is a far as they can narrow it down. No suprise they aren't willing to help out a bit more.

The Pet Supplies Plus in Centerville gets their stuff on Friday afternoons I believe. The girl that runs the fishroom is from MD and has a young child so we talked for a few minutes. She thought it was cool Dillon could point out (and say)Otocinclus and Rasbora :grin:

The manager recognized my Navy Federal Credit Card and mentioned that her husband used to be in the Navy also. I think both of these issues may have gotten me that little bit of extra help out of those two...


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## EcleckticGirl (Jul 26, 2005)

I pretty much bought my Otos right from the shipping bag. The store was pretty helpful when I saw the sign posted with the sale on Sunday the 2nd on the empty tank and asked I was told they were getting a shipment on Wednesday. When I called on Wednesday the manager said the shipment was coming in about 7:30. When I arrived at the store, they were about to release them from their bag. The went from the bag into the tank with dead companions so that we knew who was lively who wasn't after the dead ones got netted out. I left the few colorless ones behind. I believe they were dead at the store the next day. I took them home and gave them about an 1.5-2 hours to adapt to my water (not quite drip method, but close by adding my water to their bag and removing water from theirs).


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