# New Set Up a few questions



## leaveittoweaver (Apr 17, 2012)

I've been doing a lot of research and running into so much conflicting information. I started a five gallon dirted tank last night, one inch of soil, and one inch of play sand on top of it. I planted five very large healthy crypts and plan on getting some frog bit, dwarf sag etc. in the next couple days as well. The tank looks very full. 

I tested the water today, all parameters read zero. Is this normal? 

How long is best to wait to add livestock and with a five gallon tank do you guys have any recommendations? I'd like to try shrimp but I should probably wait for the tank to mature quite a bit more if I am to do this correct?

I am not running a filter but I don't like the film at the top of the water. Do a lot of people running Walstad tanks use circulation pumps? If so, any recommendations for a very small and gentle one? 

And also, light should be on 10 hours a day correct? This is what I read but just want to confirm.

Thanks for the help, this forum is always a great resource!


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Good questions, see my replies below.



leaveittoweaver said:


> I've been doing a lot of research and running into so much conflicting information. I started a five gallon dirted tank last night, one inch of soil, and one inch of play sand on top of it. I planted five very large healthy crypts and plan on getting some frog bit, dwarf sag etc. in the next couple days as well. The tank looks very full.
> 
> I tested the water today, all parameters read zero. Is this normal?
> 
> ...


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## leaveittoweaver (Apr 17, 2012)

Michael said:


> Good questions, see my replies below.


Thank you for the detailed answers Michael. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer all of my questions.

I tested the water again tonight and it is 0.25 ammonia now. I did not test the other parameters but I will definitely wait on livestock! Just keep testing the water daily right until I see no ammonia and no nitrite and only nitrate right? Just like a normal tank?

Should I do any water changes with it or just the one before adding livestock?

I tried Cherry Shrimp before and was unsuccessful but I want to try again. If they do not work out, I think one dwarf gourami and some snails would look neat!


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

You're welcome! See below.



leaveittoweaver said:


> I tested the water again tonight and it is 0.25 ammonia now. I did not test the other parameters but I will definitely wait on livestock! Just keep testing the water daily right until I see no ammonia and no nitrite and only nitrate right? Just like a normal tank?
> *Yes.*
> Should I do any water changes with it or just the one before adding livestock?
> *More water changes are optional unless you see really high ammonium.*
> ...


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I would definitely change water and remove surface film in a new setup with that much fresh soil.

You don't really need a filter since plants will be doing the ammonia removal. Water circulation is good, though, in a new tank like this.

For my small tanks (2, 5 and 10 gal), I use gentle air bubbling to circulate water. That way, I can run four small tanks off of one small Whisper air pump. One tank has a sponge filter, which is also nice.

As to one dwarf gourami, most fish like to have company. I would suggest a pair of them. 

That said, I hope that your shrimp work out!


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## leaveittoweaver (Apr 17, 2012)

dwalstad said:


> I would definitely change water and remove surface film in a new setup with that much fresh soil.
> 
> You don't really need a filter since plants will be doing the ammonia removal. Water circulation is good, though, in a new tank like this.
> 
> ...


Thank you, I will look into getting a little bubbler. I also need to get a versa top because the water is evaporating pretty quickly.

Tested water today, ammonia is 0.25, nitrite 0 and nitrate 0.


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## leaveittoweaver (Apr 17, 2012)

Another update/question: My plants all seem to have little pinholes in them. I did a water change today.

Thoughts?


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

potassium deficiency I believe.


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## leaveittoweaver (Apr 17, 2012)

DutchMuch said:


> potassium deficiency I believe.


That is what I am reading too. Why would water from my well be so deficient in K?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Tap water typically contains very little potassium, and plants need more potassium than any other nutrient except nitrogen. Potassium is usually the first nutrient to run out if you aren't dosing any fertilizers. Amano (ADA) recommended using their "Brighty" or something like that as soon as you set up the tank, where other nutrients were being provided by the substrate.

But, you may not have a nutrient deficiency. The Walstad method doesn't include dosing nutrients, instead relying on fish waste, fish food waste, and normal organics in the substrate for plant food. If you don't have too much light, this is all you really need.


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## leaveittoweaver (Apr 17, 2012)

hoppycalif said:


> Tap water typically contains very little potassium, and plants need more potassium than any other nutrient except nitrogen. Potassium is usually the first nutrient to run out if you aren't dosing any fertilizers. Amano (ADA) recommended using their "Brighty" or something like that as soon as you set up the tank, where other nutrients were being provided by the substrate.
> 
> But, you may not have a nutrient deficiency. The Walstad method doesn't include dosing nutrients, instead relying on fish waste, fish food waste, and normal organics in the substrate for plant food. If you don't have too much light, this is all you really need.


So apparently we have a Culligan water system in the basement that my boyfriend added softener to a few months ago. Could this be why I'm having so many issues with plants thriving?


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

1. Your tank is only 2 weeks old, and you used soil. This is too early for a potassium deficiency to show up, unless the plants were deficient when you bought them.

2. Is this a conventional water softener that uses either sodium chloride (NaCl) or potassium chloride (KCl) to remove calcium? Sodium chloride in water softeners can increase the sodium in the water to toxic levels for plants and some fish. Potassium chloride is more expensive, but obviously gives the plants something they need instead of too much sodium.

If you haven't added any salt (potassium or sodium) to the softener in months, it probably has run out and is doing nothing. If there is still sodium chloride salt in the softener tank, that could be the problem. You can switch to potassium chloride, or fill the aquarium with water directly from the well that has not gone through the softener. Depending on how your plumbing works, is is common to have all the in-house plumbing going through the water softener, and have the outside hose faucets coming directly from the well.

In general, conventional water softeners that use sodium chloride are bad for all plants, both terrestrial and aquatic.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

A few years ago I was told by a local expert on planted aquariums that even using Potassium Chloride in a softener was not going to produce water that was good for the plants or fish. It apparently overloads the water with potassium, beyond what is acceptable. I haven't tried softened water so I have no experience to back this up.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

hoppycalif said:


> A few years ago I was told by a local expert on planted aquariums that even using Potassium Chloride in a softener was not going to produce water that was good for the plants or fish. It apparently overloads the water with potassium, beyond what is acceptable. I haven't tried softened water so I have no experience to back this up.


I have a water softener on my house, hmm


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

DutchMuch said:


> I have a water softener on my house, hmm


You have certainly proved that you can grow aquatic plants with softened water, unless you use only the unsoftened water from the outdoors hose bib. Do you use KCl or NaCl?


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

hoppycalif said:


> You have certainly proved that you can grow aquatic plants with softened water, unless you use only the unsoftened water from the outdoors hose bib. Do you use KCl or NaCl?


not sure what KCI or NACl is, remember I'm only 16 and refilling the softener isn't one of my chores...! 
But I use the water that is connected to the softener yes.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

hoppycalif said:


> A few years ago I was told by a local expert on planted aquariums that even using Potassium Chloride in a softener was not going to produce water that was good for the plants or fish. It apparently overloads the water with potassium, beyond what is acceptable. I haven't tried softened water so I have no experience to back this up.


I can believe that. To some extent it depends on how hard your water is to begin with, and how you adjust the softener settings. Most softeners can be set for more calcium removal (softer water) or less (harder water). We have a whole house water softener, but when we re-plumbed the house all the outside hose faucets were connected directly to tap water. So my aquarium water all comes from outside faucets. Again, depending on how the plumbing was installed, some systems have a bypass valve at the softener that allows you to run un-softened water through all the pipes.

The main reason people use potassium chloride instead of sodium is to avoid excess sodium intake for people on low-salt diets.


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## leaveittoweaver (Apr 17, 2012)

Thanks for the replies everyone. It is indeed sodium chloride. I can get water from before it hits the softener. If I start doing water changes, adding the new water, will it help and will my plants hopefully come back?


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Yes, and if you don't have any animals in the tank yet you can do a complete water change. Do keep in mind that since your tank is so new the plants may simply going through an adjustment to a new environment. Some species respond with a "melt" where they lose most of their leaves and then grow new ones.


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## leaveittoweaver (Apr 17, 2012)

Michael said:


> Yes, and if you don't have any animals in the tank yet you can do a complete water change. Do keep in mind that since your tank is so new the plants may simply going through an adjustment to a new environment. Some species respond with a "melt" where they lose most of their leaves and then grow new ones.


Gotcha. When crypts melt do the leaves yellow and become slimy? That is happening on a lot of my crypts.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Yes.


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## Maryland Guppy (Mar 5, 2015)

Crypts are notorious for a melt down when their surrounding environment is changed.
This could be temperature, hardness, or fertilizer related.
I have been known to just trim all the leaves off and plant the rooted portion when moving to a tank with drastically different parameters.
Then all of the disintegration doesn't foul the water column.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Crypts are notorious for a melt down when their surrounding environment is changed.
> This could be temperature, hardness, or fertilizer related.
> I have been known to just trim all the leaves off and plant the rooted portion when moving to a tank with drastically different parameters.
> Then all of the disintegration doesn't foul the water column.


I agree. When the leaves start melting, I cut them off and remove them.


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## leaveittoweaver (Apr 17, 2012)

Alright so this tank has been up for a month and reads 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate and 0.25 ammonia. Thoughts? What should I do? I have been doing water changes when the ammonia gets really high. It was super high at one point.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

If your nitrate test shows zero nitrate you are not doing the test correctly. You have to really shake up the reagents hard, and long, or it doesn't work. Read the instructions on the test kit and follow them exactly, and I will bet you get a non-zero reading. You do have to have some nitrate in the water or the plants will not do as well as they should.


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## leaveittoweaver (Apr 17, 2012)

hoppycalif said:


> If your nitrate test shows zero nitrate you are not doing the test correctly. You have to really shake up the reagents hard, and long, or it doesn't work. Read the instructions on the test kit and follow them exactly, and I will bet you get a non-zero reading. You do have to have some nitrate in the water or the plants will not do as well as they should.


Yeah, I know about shaking nitrates really hard. I think I'm going to buy a new kit. I was getting a little nitrate reading previously. Thanks for the help!


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## Rodgie (Dec 28, 2017)

Hi there! 

I was wondering what’s the update of your tank? Any livestock yet? Pictures?


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