# War on Algae (Audouinella)...Advice Needed



## Ridgeback (Feb 6, 2010)

Happy New Year to all...

Well the algae problem has come to roost in my tank and I am having real trouble trying to eliminate the problem. This didn't just sudeenly happen but it has been slowly getting worse to the point where I needed to take more drastic actions. I am hoping to get some advice from forum members to help me eliminate the problem. I have a 40 gallon breeder tank with 4x39W T5 lighting and pressurized CO2. I have a drop checker and it always shows that I am dosing at a optimum level (the indicator is green.) I used to run my lights arount 10 hous/day but I have cut that back to 8 hours/day

My biggest problem has been an infestation of black beard algae which has spread from my wood hardscape to my slower growng plants (annubias, crypts) and is now attacking most everything that is in the tank. I also have this brownish crud that has stuck to my stem plants. As I alluded to above, this past week I had to take drastic action:

- Removed my wood hardscape and scrubbed it down with a wire brush. this took off a lot but not all of the BBA. I removed a large chunk of hardscape so I could give my clean-up crew a chance to go to work on the plants.

- I trimmed back plants that had a lot of BBA growth. I had to throw out a couple of stems because they were completely coated.

- gave a bleach bath (19-1 ratio) to most of my plants (3-4 minutes). Most of the algae is still on the plants but is white. I assume this is a good sign and it will be falling off the plants soon. The "brown crud" seems to have been affected some but there is still a fair amount of it on my stem plants. With removal of part of my driftwood hardscape I took the opportunity to re-scape the tank as well.

What else I have and my next steps:
- Right now for a cleanup crew I have two plecos: Rubbernose Pleco (_Chaetostoma milesi_ and a Clown Pleco (_Panaque maccus_), 2-3 Otos, 15 Amano Shrimp, 6 Cories, 3 Clown Loaches (I had a snail problem at one time and these guys eliminated that problem withing a couple of weeks)

Question: I feel I am in good shape with cories and loaches but I need to add more Otos. I could also add more Amano shrimp. The question is how many? Are these the right things to add to eliminate BBA and whatever this brown crud is?

Question: And for that matter, what is this brownish crud on my plants? Is it algae at all (like brown algae) or something else more sinister? I can take a picture if needed. I am hoping my description might be enough for someone on the forum to ID it 

- I did 2 significant water changes over the past 5 days (about 40%).

Question: Should I keep this up or go back to my normal schedule (40% every 1-2 weeks)

- Replaced my filter pads (Eheim II) and did the regular maintenance on the filter (clean the impeller and intakes)

Question: My flow indicator is still showing a pretty low flow rate (flow indicator is on the 3rd bar for those of you with an Eheim 2). Any suggestions on maintenance I may have missed that is causing the flow rate to be low? Is this flow rate perfectly normal?

Question: My next step is to go with dosing Seachem Excel beyond the recommended limit (I currently use Seachem Fert products in my tank using the forums dosing guide). Where should I start the dosing at (2x the normal dosage? 3x? 4x? 10x?)

Thanks for you help!


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## wwh2694 (Aug 15, 2008)

Did u try dosing 2x florish excel? On BBA try dosing it directly.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Algae questions in 2011. Going on strong (as a community), in the same direction, for 11 years now, aren't we?

I suggest you peruse the following two (very long) threads:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...478-discussion-laminar-vs-turbulant-flow.html

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...club/75400-excited-word-about-filtration.html

And also the following 10 (yes, ten) very long threads. Lots of beating around the bush. The link is for the first of the ten threads:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...67-dummy-question-001-fish-waste-ammonia.html

If you don't like the threads at the moment make sure you are good friends with your wire brush because you will never be able to say "I don't need this thing any more.". If after a few months you still keep algae as house pets come back to this post and make use of the links.

Good luck,

--Nikolay


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## spypet (Jul 27, 2007)

personally, I would get rid of both plecos, and reduce the cory and loach population - they are mostly useless crap machines, that are prompting you to over feed this tank in the first place. If you are worried about snails, get an assassin, not loaches. you can even get rid of some amanos too, since adults don't eat much algae when there is other food around. the only fish in your tank earning it's keep are the otos. tank keepers often make the mistake of adding more ineffective cleaning animals, when it's the bioload of the animals themselves that are causing the problem in the first place. once you are down to just otos and amanos and a few barbel nose fish, you need to retrain them to become cleaners by starving the tank of any added food. there is plenty of debris in a 40b planted tank to keep them fat and happy for Months - it's not like you are breeding them.


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## neilshieh (Jun 24, 2010)

did you do a very good vacuuming? for me when i killed my bba it turned reddish brown not white. in general i haven't seen my algae crew fight my algae problems. i have 3 bn plecos 2 very fat ottos and yellow shrimp, they didn't make a dent. you gotta take matters into your own hands. get a syringe first, turn off the filter, and squirt h2o2 at your algae. leave it overnight and turn the filter on again the next morning. a sign of the h2o2 working is the algae will start "pearling" <--- "pearling of death that is..." 
pull up your carpet or the largest plant covered area and vacuum like hell.
increase filtration (not sure if replacing the 10 gallon hob on my 20 long with a penguin bio-wheel 150 was a part of my success)
dose excel daily more than the recommended amount is okay, recommended is good too. 
and... you should be good. try turning your lights down to 6 hours a day. with 6 hours a day i've had no problems with algae anymore.
the ONLY effective algae eater i've seen with my own eyes would be a young SAE. my brother's tank was covered with it and he put in a young SAE and bam the next day completely clean.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

I find BBA needs two things out of whack to bloom.
Keep removing as much as you can.
Do not add iron (for now). Does your tap have high iron? 
Make sure CO2 is at 30ppm - light green on a drop checker and KEEP it steady.
Bump up your nitrates.

The brown crud is probably brown algae - diatoms. Otos will gobble this up but wont eat BBA. Real SAEs (young ones) will eat BBA and Amanos and Cherry shrimp.

Too much Excel = dead shrimp


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## neilshieh (Jun 24, 2010)

^agreed
BUMP up your nitrates, i forgot that... i wasn't dosing nitrates for couple of months before BBA and Staghorn attacked. and my nitrates were 0. try shooting for 10-20 ppm. careful though, i lost 3 yellow shrimps from the addition of nitrates, but my plants are going full blast now >.>


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## Ridgeback (Feb 6, 2010)

Newt said:


> I find BBA needs two things out of whack to bloom.
> Keep removing as much as you can.
> Do not add iron (for now). Does your tap have high iron?
> Make sure CO2 is at 30ppm - light green on a drop checker and KEEP it steady.
> ...


Thanks Newt...

- I do not have high iron in my tap...but I do add Excel Iron to my tank as directed. Should I stop doing this temporarily?
- How do you increase Nitrate levels? Sorry I am only 8 months into keeping a planted tank so this may be a really dumb question? 
- I have already bumped up the CO2 (drop checker = greenish yellow)
- Will be getting more Otos. I had a die off (4 or 5 all at once) about 5 months ago and went to the two plecos instead. My mistake...I suspect they are fine (eating green algae) but don't go after the brown algae as aggressively. Probably a correlation between the die off of Otos and the emergence of the "brown crud"
- Thanks for the tip on the Excel...I would like to overdose (like 2x the recommended amount). Do you have an idea what level would be toxic to Amanos?

Thanks again...


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## Ridgeback (Feb 6, 2010)

Neilshieh...Thanks for the info...I asked Newt the same question (since I am something of a newbie)...

How do you boost nitrates?

To your earlier response...

Yep...did a pretty thorough vaccuming which I believe has helped.

To your observation about BBA...some of the BBA is brownish red as well.

Just an update..the bba is starting to die off some on the plants leading me to believe that my bleach bath was successful.


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## Ridgeback (Feb 6, 2010)

Thank you for the response SpyNet...I reviewed my habits over the past few months and concluded I was overfeeding. As I vacuumed up the tank I noticed there was a lot of...um...stuff in a few spots of the tank. I realized this was contributing to my algae problem and my current feeding regimen was contributing to the large amounts of...um...stuff in the tank. 

The loaches days are numbered and they will eventually be taken out of the tank. I added them to solve a problem (which it did...I haven't had a snail problem for some time now). IMO they are cool when they are little...not so much when they get big.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Its OK to dose recommened amounts of Excel with shrimp.
You raise your nitrates with KNO3 (potassium nitrate) powder. You can use the Fertilator to find dose for your tank.

Otos can be tough to acclimate to your tank. They should get nice and plump with diatoms which is a sign of high silicates; typical with new tank set ups. Reducing lighting will also help with brown algae.

BTW, what is your tank size, lighting type including bulbs and photo duration?


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

I went back and read your original post.

"I have a 40 gallon breeder tank with 4x39W T5 lighting and pressurized CO2. I have a drop checker and it always shows that I am dosing at a optimum level (the indicator is green.) I used to run my lights arount 10 hous/day but I have cut that back to 8 hours/day."

Are those T5HO ? high output............I think so
What brand bulb(s)?
Is the lighting fixture wired to turn on two sets of bulbs? 2 and 2. If yes, it is best to have 2 come on for 2 hrs and then the other 2 for 4 hrs (burst) and final 2 hrs with 2 bulbs.

Thats a lot of light for a beginner.


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## Ridgeback (Feb 6, 2010)

Newt said:


> I went back and read your original post.
> 
> "I have a 40 gallon breeder tank with 4x39W T5 lighting and pressurized CO2. I have a drop checker and it always shows that I am dosing at a optimum level (the indicator is green.) I used to run my lights arount 10 hous/day but I have cut that back to 8 hours/day."
> 
> ...


Newt:

Yes these are High Output bulbs. The bulbs are 6500K from Catalina Aquarium and the fixture is setup to run for two sets of bulbs. I have them synced up to come on at about the same time (within 10-20 minutes of each other). I also have my pressurized CO2 synced with the lights.

I agree this is a lot of light but I believe some of the plants I have are pretty demanding (Ludwigia "Cuba", limnophila aromatica, hydrotriche hottoniiflora). Is reduced amount of time the lights are on enough to keep these plants vibrant? How should I sync my CO2 (only 4 hours, all 8 hours)?

Thanks again for the advice...

Update: The shrimp have really started to attack the remaining BBA. I am seeing evidence that they have been busy. The plants that recieved the bleach bath are stressed but the BBA that was on them is falling off.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

I keep L. aromatica and P. erectus w/o that much light.
So First 2 lights on for 2hrs,(add) 2nd bank of 2 on for 4 hr burst, first set off after final 2 hrs.

I keep my CO2 on 24/7. A poll done here seems to indicate most people do. There is no catch up time.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Ridgeback said:


> ........- gave a bleach bath (19-1 ratio) to most of my plants (3-4 minutes). Most of the algae is still on the plants but is white. I assume this is a good sign and it will be falling off the plants soon..........


If you bleach the plants and put them back in the same tank, the algae still in the tank will quickly get on the plants again. The thing to do is bleach the plants and then move them to another tank that is free of the algae.

See the bleach method for details about getting rid of hair algae for keeps.

I treat new plants with bleach and I have never had an infestation of black beard algae.


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