# [Wet Thumb Forum]-first timer, need your help, long message



## bfitz (Nov 23, 2004)

I have a 58 gal tank. first time I have tried plants. here are the parameters;
nitrate[hagen test kit] very pale color, chart says 5mg/l
phosphate is nuts, but I tried using a discus buffer/nuetral regulator that is phosphate based.I won't do that again. Anyway, hagen kit, dark blue, chart says 5 mg/l.
KH-5degree
GH-5 degree
PH- 6.4 [I keep trying to raise it, but the driftwood sucks it down], these 3 are aquarium pharmacuetical kits
light- I just bought a dual compact flourescent Coralife freshwater light, 130 watts, I use a timer to run 1 light 12hrs and the second one is on for about 7 per day.
plants are sometype of cabomba, that grows fine, anubia coffeeola, and another big anubia[I really don't know subspecies], and some corkscrew vallisneria, and java fern. the anubias, and fern are just holding their own-no growth, vallisneria is not growing, java fern not growing but has bright green plantlets forming.
Now, do my plants and water match, what changes do I need to make? I use seachem nitrogen[2ml per day] and potassium[4ml per day].
I'm curious about CO2, but I had a problem with my air pump for 1 day and 2 fish died. How can I measure CO2?
Thanks for your help.


----------



## Kyle V (May 8, 2005)

Hello bfitz,

I can answer one of your questions easily thanks to Mr. Chuck Gadd's CO2 and fertilizer calculator; http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_aquacalc.htm. Download it when you get a chance and I'm sure you'll find it helpful. CO2 can be calculated if you know your pH and KH.

In your case, ph of 6.4 and KH of 5 = +/-59ppm. That's really high, so unless you have pressurized CO2 cranking, I worry that one of your readings might be off. If you do have pressurized CO2 and you're sure that your pH and KH are correct, you can raise your pH by decreasing the amount of CO2 (20ppm is good, some like up to 30ppm, but too much above that and it'll be bad for the fish).

Also, 130w of light for a 58g tank is about the minimum you want to be using to grow plants. I'd suggest you keep both lights on for about 12 hrs/day, and see if the plants perk up.

Good luck.


----------



## bfitz (Nov 23, 2004)

thanks..I will verify my results to be sure...I'm not using any CO2 injection of any type...


----------



## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

without injection, most tanks stay in the 3ppm range usually.


----------



## bfitz (Nov 23, 2004)

checked again...ph is between 6.7 & 6.4. I'm having trouble with the colors, but it's one of those. KH is 5.


----------



## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

somthing is wrong there. that would add up to 30ppm co2. which is perfect, but if you are not injecting any co2, there's no way it should be that high.


----------



## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

unless you are using some chemical that lowers your ph?


----------



## bfitz (Nov 23, 2004)

I did use "discus buffer" & "nuetral regulator" to adjust the PH on my last water change. I read the jar and they are phosphate buffers. I'm not going to use them anymore. Could that screw up the calculation?
So you know, I change about 12 gals on fridays, and 12 gals again on sunday; I don't have time to mess with the tank during the week.


----------



## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

yes, they will alter your calculations. i would imagine that over the next couple weeks of water changes, it will return to a ph level of around 7.5-7.7 depending on a few things. 

i guess one main question you need to ask yourself is "how far do i want to go with this" you can have a high tech tank with 3+wpg and co2 injection and lots of fertilizer dosing, or do you just want to have a regular tank with a few plants in it.


----------



## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

we can help you eather way







i mean heck, you already have the lighting, all you really need is a little co2 and some fertilizers. co2 can be done easily with a yeast sugar mixture. the cost of this would only be around 10 bucks. or you can go pressurized and have tons of consistant co2, and it would only be about $140. if you want fertilizers, you can mix your own pretty easily. this would only cost you about 25 for materials.


----------



## bfitz (Nov 23, 2004)

just so you know, PH is always about 6.4 [driftwood] I was trying to raise it with the buffers to 6.9. Tap water here is 7.0 [about].
My main goal is to have healthy plants for the fish to hang out in. Besides, it looks good to have them in there. 
I've got a room problem, so the CO2 tank/ regulator is out, I might try a yeast generator if it fits under them tank.
What about flourish excel? How does that work?


----------



## sarahbobarah (Sep 5, 2005)

Does one really need to worry about the pH? I mean, if the tap water we're using is coming out a certain way, then adding extra chemicals to adjust it - isn't that just a rollercoaster of pH levels? - At least, that's what some sites say. 
See - now I'm all worried cuz last time I checked, my pH is pretty low and I don't want to mess with it.


----------



## Ben C (Apr 16, 2006)

consider this.. the guy already has pH of 6.4.. if he's thinking of adding CO2, it will only lower it further. If its really that much of a problem, i would be tempted to remove the driftwood. You could also try raising your KH by adding some baking soda (NOT powder). This would help buffer the pH some more. I would sort this out before you add CO2 (which makes water even more acidic).


----------



## sarahbobarah (Sep 5, 2005)

Could you buffer it with crushed coral in your filter?


----------



## imported_BSS (Apr 14, 2004)

That driftwood is sounding a bit scary to me! If it is dropping the pH, then I'd guess it is leaching some form of acid. If so, it'll continue leaching it, and I'd be surprised to here the pH is 'always' around 6.4. If your tap water has a KH=5, your tap water should show a pH around 7.7 as Russell suggested. Put some tap water in a glass and measure the pH after it sits out 24 hours. Water immediately out of the tap typically shows a different pH then it will show after it has out-gassed for a while.

I previously had some driftwood that was eating both my KH and my GH. I eventually proved this by putting some in a plastic containing and measuring the levels overs a week or so. With the driftwood changing the water make-up, you'll never have a stable base from which to work.

Sounding like a good mystery. Keep us informed!
Brian.


----------



## bfitz (Nov 23, 2004)

driftwoods will leach humic and tannins, both acidic. for some reason it also softens the water.
I was trying to raise my ph because I thought the plants would be better off, the fish are fine....cabomba grwing like a weed, anubias growing new leaves, java fern is the one that seems to be sluggish...any ideas?


----------



## sarahbobarah (Sep 5, 2005)

Java fern in general grows very slowly. I have two kinds growing in one of my tanks, and it took a while to place them where they started to show some progress. 

It seemed to help a lot to stick them under some shade - in my case, floating Riccia and "baby tears" 
This helped keep the algae off them, and bright light seemed to "burn" some edges. 

Also, did you attach them to something or did you bury their rhizomes?


----------



## bfitz (Nov 23, 2004)

they attached themselves to a rock


----------



## bfitz (Nov 23, 2004)

thanks for the input...I'm just going to maintain my rituals. Fish are happy, anubia, cabomba happy, and I'll see what the fern does...Do they need special minerals or something?
Thanks


----------

