# [Wet Thumb Forum]-The new 125 gallon goldie tank



## DataGuru

ok... the house is rearranged, the lights are built and the 125 is set up.
*phew*

It's set up as a natural planted tank with a topsoil substrate amended with oyster shell, and gravel overlayer. 375 watts of 6500K compact fluorescent light inside reflectors from the clamp on worklights... mounted on pvc and hung from the ceiling with chain. It's by two south windows.

No fish yet, cuz I have to get some more gravel to try and make sure the goldies don't get down to the topsoil and I want to give the plants a change to get rooted. I'm not sure how well the small swords are going to work with goldies. I added some apple and ramshorn snails and I'm feeding it fish food for now. Anyhow... here it is.


















Left Side. In the back, sunset hygro, radican sword, and an unknown sword (anyone know what it is?). In front there's mondo grass (I think), bronze wendetti, and micro swords (Lilaeopsis novaezelandiae). 









Middle: that unknown sword, giant hairgrass, and ludwigia I think.
In front of the hair grass are some medium sized dwarf sag and in front of that more micro swords.









Right side: in back some unknown plant, amazon sword, wysteria.In front: micro swords, Cryptocoryne lutea and a bronze wendetti.









Here's a closeup of the unknown plant. Any idea what it is?


----------



## DataGuru

Deleted long quote.


----------



## DataGuru

I'm thinking I need to add ammonia since there are minimal beasties in the tank at the moment. 2.5cc of 10% ammonia twice a day should get me about .5ppm ammonia. Thoughts?


----------



## dwalstad

Initial planting looks a little scant to me. I see too many barren areas. With all that light and soil, those plants are going to have to grow awfully fast to compete with algae. 

If it were my tank, I'd immediately put in about 3-5 Amazon Swordplants (strong root systems that should withstand goldfish digging).

However, I know you must be exhausted after setting this up! 

If you decide not to add more plants, I'd at least turn off a couple of the bulbs temporarily. Once the plants start filling in the tank, you can run all 5.

Decomposition in the soil may add ammonia to the tank. I'd check the tank water before adding any more.


----------



## DataGuru

Exhausted is accurate. LOL I need to actually check water parameters and see what's what since I used a different brand of topsoil this time around. 

There may be 1 or 2 places where there aren't plants every 3 inches. Are you thinking not enough plant mass cuz of all the micro swords instead of larger plants?

pea soup algae? (I have daphnia who would love that) I also have a bunch of floaters (salvenia, duckweed, frogbit, najas grass, hornwort, or sunset hygro) I could add. I also have one more amazon sword that's been potted for a couple of weeks that I could fit in there.


----------



## imported_BobB

Betty-You might want to consider some floating plants also.


----------



## DataGuru

I have to pick up some more gravel this evening, so I'll probably lose most of the water and add the sword. I may pick up a couple more swords. the thing is I was hoping to keep a lot of area open for swimming room for the goldies and not fill up the back with tall plants so the sunlight could get to the front of the tank. I can fill it up with floaters if need be.


----------



## kenmeyer

I agree with Diana I dont think you have enough plants for the amount of light that you have. With my 125 I had at least 50 plants to start with. Also I found water lettuce works great to keep the algae growth under control until the rooted plants get going. Mine grew so fast I had to throw tons of it my pond. Once the tank was doing well I took all but two big ems out so they dont block so much light. I love your light set up looks real nice


----------



## Rider

> Originally posted by Betty:
> It's set up as a natural planted tank with a topsoil substrate amended with oyster shell, and gravel overlayer.
> 
> Hi Betty
> 
> How long did it take for the water to clear after you planted everything? I am very new to this and I have been surprised that in my career total of setting up two tanks, each time it takes several days for the turbidity to clear. Is there a smarter way to set up and plant that doesn't make so much mess?
> 
> BTW, it looks like you're going to have some pampered goldies


----------



## DataGuru

ok... I found the gravel. Yea!
Returned the mondo grass, but had a ****ens of a time trying to convince the manager that it's not a true aquatic plant. Added 2 amazon swords, another of the oval leaved swords, some crypts, water sprite, more sunset hygro and more wysteria. Added a bunch of floaters... parrot's feather, salvenia, frogbit and duckweed. Had 2ppm ammonia showing when I went to bed last nite. 9 hours later I'm still seeing 1ppm ammonia and a trace of nitrIte. That's disappointing, cuz the little 30 gallon bowfront cleared 2.5ppm ammonia in less than a day. I'm going to stuff in a bunch of najas grass and see if that helps. That stuff grows like crazy, so it should. With the current goldies, this tank's going to need to be able to handle like 5ppm ammonia per day. I'll post some new pics in a bit.

Rider: originally, I planted the plants as I was adding the gravel overlayer. then I filled it (spazzed once and stirred up some dirt) and drained it and filled it again. It was still pretty cloudy and the soil was already starting to turn the water yellow. Yesterday, I drained it to a couple of inches of water, added the new plants and refilled it maybe 3/4. then added another bag of gravel. I was planning on draining it again, but there really wasn't any cloudiness to speak of happening, so I just finished filling it up.

The main thing I've seen in the 3 tanks I've set up so far, is that the water gets yellow. It took like a month of adding carbon to get the yellow cleared up.


----------



## DataGuru

ok... here we go.

Here's the tank as of 3/5/05. Drained the tank and added two more amazon swords, another of the oval leaved swords, more sunset hygro, more wysteria, and water sprite. Added the rest of the gravel and Added a bunch of floating plants: parrot's feather, salvenia, frogbit, duckweed. ammonia at 2ppm at midnite.









Left Side. In the back, sunset hygro, radican sword, an amazon sword, and an unknown sword (anyone know what it is?). In front there's an amazon sword, green crypt wendetti, bronze crypt wendetti, and micro swords (Lilaeopsis novaezelandiae). 









Middle: that unknown sword, giant hairgrass, unknown plant, ludwigia (I think), and another oval leaved sword.
In front of the hair grass are some medium sized dwarf sag and in front of that more micro swords.









Right side: in back a new oval leaved sword, water sprite, amazon sword, wysteria. In front: micro swords, Cryptocoryne lutea and a bronze wendetti.









as of today 3/6/05. At 9am, ammonia was still 1ppm and a trace of nitrIte was showing. added a bunch of najas grass and left it floating.









Betty


----------



## DataGuru

This is annoying. Six hours later, ammonia is still at 1ppm and nitrIte is at .25ppm.

I've heard patience is a virtue.


----------



## TWood

Hey Betty,

I'm thinking about converting my 90 gallon to a goldfish tank. I'd wanted to do so for some time but I was experiencing high temps and I know goldfish prefer cooler waters. I can now keep the tank in the 75-80 maximum range, but that's still higher than the recommendations I see for 50-68 max. What temp do you keep your goldfish tanks at?

Here'a pic of a 1-1.5" (Petsmart $13 size) that's been in the tank a few days now and all seems fine. I'd like to add two or three of the next larger size but I've read that the larger goldfish dislike the higher temps even more.

Thanks,

TW


----------



## DataGuru

What a cutie.








Do you have pics of your tank?

Fancies do fine with water temp in the high 70s. I keep mine at 76-78. It's good for their digestion and makes their immune system work better.
Goldies are messy beasts, so allow at least 10 gallons per goldie. Flukes are supposed to be common in goldies, so I give the newbies a .6% salt dip and then treat with praziquantel for flukes before putting them in the main tank.

Betty


----------



## TWood

Thanks,

That works for me if it works for the fish.

Here's a link to a pic posted in a different thread here, let's see if this works.

http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc/groupee_files/attachments/7/9/3/7931051901/7931051901_tank2.jpg?ts=422BD760&key=7C8EE1BF9EC4D82B78278CE9EB9D8DA5&referrer=http%3A%2F%2Faquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc%2Feve%2Fubb.x%2Fa%2Fga%2Ful%2F2531010821%2Ftank2.jpg

Here's a link to the thread itself, scroll down.

http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=4006090712&f=8006023812&m=5031070701

Edit: BTW, I run pressurized CO2 on my tank, so the pH is down around 6.8. I've read that goldfish do better at 7.2 - 7.4. But I've also read that the modified pH we create in planted tanks doesn't really affect fish. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks,

TW


----------



## DataGuru

Nice set up!








So how's your sump set up?
With goldies, people usually recommend moving 10 times the gallons in the tank per hour.

Well, last nite around midnite, ammonia was at .25ppm and nitrIte was 0ppm. This morning ammonia is up to 2ppm and nitrIte's at .5ppm. Yesterday evening, I added about 50 ramshorn snails in a breeder net as a temporary holding area while I treat the new goldies with praziquantel. Surely that's not enough bioload to raise ammonia that high overnite. Weird. I think I'll add some more najas grass.


----------



## TWood

> Originally posted by Betty:
> Nice set up!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how's your sump set up?
> With goldies, people usually recommend moving 10 times the gallons in the tank per hour.


Thanks,

The in-tank sump has a submersible pump (317 GPH) that returns under the gravel and turns up in the back corners. The pipes go up behind some black eggcrate and then split horizontal into some perforated pipe that feeds the return water.

There's another pump (158 GPH)that draws water down through the substrate through a DIY UGF. I guess it's low on the combined GPH by that standard of 10 times tank volume (10*90 = 900 GPH). I wonder if that recommendation is for a fish-only tank and doesn't take into account the filtering effect of the plants?

TW


----------



## DataGuru

Nice! What ya got in that sump?
How many gallons are you moving per hour?

I think goldies like pH around 7.6, tho they can tolerate a broad range. 6.8 should be fine, but be aware they're heavy on the bioload, so your buffering capacity may get used up faster than usual. with 4 large goldies in a 55, my KH was dropping by 2dh a week.

How much of a daily pH swing do you see?
The advice I hear is no more than .4 pH change in a 24 hour period.


----------



## DataGuru

Interesting. So are your plants rooted in the UGF?

Letsee. in my 55 gallon goldie tank, I have an ugf that covers half the tank run by a penguin 170 biowheel and a penguin 170 powerhead. I had another hob filter till recently that was around the same rating, so that was around 510 gallons per hour and it was doing fine. It also has bunches of potted plants and an external DIY plant filter (See the link below for pics, etc).

Added a dose of prime earlier today. Water tests tonite continue to be disappointing. Ammonia is at 1ppm and nitrIte is at 2ppm now. Removed the apple snails and the extra ramshorn snails.


----------



## TWood

In that tank most of the plant filtering is done by the h. difformis growing in the eggcrate on the back and sides. The substrate is mostly a mechanical filter with a few stem plants for interest. So I'm not really participating in the topic of this section of the forum, just interested in your experience with goldfish.

TW


----------



## DataGuru

Yea, most people these days recommend bare bottom tanks for goldies and rely heavily on external filtration, so I'd suspect that's the context of the gph recommendation. There are two basic issues 1) goldies forage on the bottom a lot, so getting gravel stuck in their mouths is an issue, and 2)they are poop factories. As you stock more goldies, I would worry about the low flow thru the UGF and would keep it vacuumed regularly. You may need to add more mechanical filtration at some point.

The best goldie forums I've found so far are Goldie Town over at Aquamanics, followed by Koko's. Koivet also has quite a few goldie geeks even tho it's a koi forum.

This morning ammonia is at 2ppm and nitrIte is at least 2ppm. There are only a few misc pond, rams, and MTS snails in the tank now, but something's sure making some ammonia in the new tank. Most likely the heterotrophic bacteria I'd bet.


----------



## Elerten

Hi Betty, I'm guessing you don't have a heater added to the tank for the goldies ;-) . I"m curious how much heat those lights/lamps put into the tank? significant amount? 
I"m new to this planted aquarium stuff.. getting a 125 gallon next week, and have been researching and trying ot get ideas on lighting for it and the type of plants i want to add.
Still waiting on my Diana Walstad book to arrive!


----------



## DataGuru

Yes, it has 2 300 watt rena heaters, one on each end. I keep the water for the goldies around 78 degrees. and no, the lights are 75 watt 6500K spiral compact fluorescent light bulbs that screw into a regular light socket. They really don't generate much heat. plus, the clip-on work lights have holes in the top of the reflectors, so that lets heat escape upwards. Here's the stuff I used to build them.








Basically it's pvc, and clamp on worklights suspended from the ceiling by a couple of chains. I meant to put together a DIY page on it, but didn't tank enough pics of process.

I've read Diana's book like 3 times so far and I get something new out of it each time. LOL

So are you thinking about setting the new 125 up as a natural planted tank? or are you leaning toward a more high tech approach?


----------



## Elerten

"So are you thinking about setting the new 125 up as a natural planted tank? or are you leaning toward a more high tech approach?"

I am planning on a planted tank, but as far as natural.. I"m not sure yet.. So far I feel I should have some filtration since I do plan on having a few discus in the tank, as well as a few other fish.. 
I know that I want an "amazon" look/feel to it, but i'm still reading up on how to eventually achieve this.. At the moment its all a bit overwhelming! 
The tank will be set into a long ,shallow closet at the end of a hallway.. so lighting is my main concern right now. Not sure if the location is going to work or not. I plan on using plants that do well with low lighting requirments. 
I certainly like how you have the lighting done on your tank... I was originally planning on flourescent striplighting ,but was having a hard time finding how I was going to fit all that in there and get the wattage I still needed. 
Was also concerned about having all that lighting on top of the tank, and having to remove it everytime I wanted access to the tank (wich i predict will be alot). 
Still waiting on the walstad book, I'm sure i'll get some ideas from that. Unfortunately the local libraries dont have any good books about this stuff!


----------



## dwalstad

> Originally posted by Betty:
> This is annoying. Six hours later, ammonia is still at 1ppm and nitrIte is at .25ppm.
> 
> I've heard patience is a virtue.


I wouldn't be too concerned about the ammonia and nitrite. It will come down within a shorter period than you think!

The tank looks more promising with the new plant additions. Adding the floating plants was a good idea. I hope that they are growing well (They _should_ with all that light and nutrients pouring into the water).

You have worked hard. I would relax and let nature take its course.


----------



## DataGuru

Diana: Yep.. The plants that had been potted for a while weren't too happy about being transplanted at first, but they're coming back fine. all the other plants look very happy. Ammonia is still at 1ppm and nitrIte is somewhere between 2 and 5ppm. Looks like a mini fishless cycle happening. Does that happen often with new natural planted tanks?

Aren: Yea, that's why I didn't go with fluorescent tubes. I built a hood for my 55 gallon tank using wood, a shop light and two of the screw in compact fluorescent lights and it's way too heavy and cumbersome. With this light, I just put a cup hook in the wall and I can loop a cord around it and move it back out of the way easily. Plus I wanted to be able to allow for emergent plant growth. The one thing I might do differently is to put the reflectors closer together and add one more light... not really because I need more light, but because having the reflectors closer together would result in more even lighting. Saw some cool looking hanging lights with cut glass shades like you'd put over a pool table.. way too expensive tho.


----------



## DataGuru

3/12/05 Replaced the unknown plant in the middle of the tank with sunset hygro. Planted some najas grass behind the oval-leaved sword on the left side. Added some hornwort. The water was yellowing and I stirred up some soil, so I drained and refilled it.









Emergent. parrot's feather, salvenia, duckweed, frogbit and not pictured water hyacinth.

















Left Side. In the back, sunset hygro, radican sword, an amazon sword, and an Echinodorus cordifolius "ovalis", behind the oval sword is some najas planted. In front there's an amazon sword, green crypt wendetti, bronze crypt wendetti, and micro swords (Lilaeopsis novaezelandiae). The floaters include najas grass, hornwort, and parrot's feather.









Middle: Echinodorus cordifolius "ovalis", giant hairgrass, Hygrophila corymbosa "angustifolia" (I think) Sunset Hygro, and another Echinodorus cordifolius "ovalis".
In front of the hair grass are some medium sized dwarf sag and in front of that more micro swords.








Here's a pic that shows the microsword and dwarf sag better.









Right side: in back the Echinodorus cordifolius "ovalis", water sprite, amazon sword, wysteria. In front: micro swords, Cryptocoryne lutea and a bronze wendetti.









3/13/05 ammonia is at .25ppm and nitrIte is at 2ppm at 9am. That's kinda cool, cuz it means almost all the 2.5ppm ammonia in my tap water is gone today. It's not cool tho, cuz it means that even with all the plant growth and the mass of floaters/emergent plants, the plants didn't get most of the ammonia. The biobugs converted it to nitrIte.


----------



## DataGuru

I'm seeng a lot of good sized bubbles coming up from the topsoil substrate in the new 125. It's been set up about 3 weeks now. I'm curious as to what others have experienced.


----------



## kenmeyer

So far on the 3 tanks I set up I had alot of bubbles coming out of the substrate.It didnt seem to cause any problems. On my 125 I would say I had lots of bubbles for about two months and they slowly tapered off


----------



## DataGuru

Ammonia and nitrIte were down to 0ppm so I acclimated and put the new goldies in the 125. They immediately started foraging in the gravel. When they'd disturb the gravel, bubbles would come out of it which had me a bit creeped out. It's one thing for the H2S to bubble out... but bubbling out thru their gills is seriously not cool.

I hadn't smelled a rotten egg smell before when messing with the tank, but I supposed that's because I haven't messed with the gravel cept to plant things. Decided to press down on the gravel to try and get the bubbles to rise and it is H2S. So the goldies are back in the 20 long.


----------



## dwalstad

> Originally posted by Betty:
> Ammonia and nitrIte were down to 0ppm so I acclimated and put the new goldies in the 125. They immediately started foraging in the gravel. When they'd disturb the gravel, bubbles would come out of it which had me a bit creeped out. It's one thing for the H2S to bubble out... but bubbling out thru their gills is seriously not cool.
> 
> I hadn't smelled a rotten egg smell before when messing with the tank, but I supposed that's because I haven't messed with the gravel cept to plant things. Decided to press down on the gravel to try and get the bubbles to rise and it is H2S. So the goldies are back in the 20 long.


Dear Betty,

I'm sorry that your tank has had such a long acclimation period. It sounds like you used some very rich soil. It may take a little longer than usual for it to settle down.

However, it looks like you've got some excellent plant growth. It's nice to see all that emergent growth considering the high lighting that you have. I think that the long term prospects on this tank are excellent.


----------



## DataGuru

Thanks Diana. It's just plain old cheapo topsoil. Hopefully it'll settle down soon. I spent an hour going over the substrate pushing it down to free as many bubbles as possible and that significantly yellowed up the water... so I drained it and refilled the tank.

Got some new pics after the water change (3/20/05).









Left side: The new sword and the bronze wendetti have several new leaves. The oval leafed sword has a stalk with two plantlets on it and has put out another stalk. Planted some more chain swords and some java fern.

















The plantlets

















And it looks like it's not an ovalis. Maybe an Ozelot sword.









Middle: The sunset hygro has taken off, but the Hygrophila corymbosa "angustifolia" doesn't appear to be doing much. 









Right side: The water sprite is taking off.









3/21/05 This time around, tank was able to clear all 2.5ppm of ammonia in about a day with no nitrItes showing at the end of the 24 hours.... So... I put a bunch of Endlers livebearers in the 125. Actually I can't believe how many were in the bowfront (and I started with ONLY 9 back in November)! I'll bet I transferred at least 100 of those little buggars into the 125. and there's at least 50 still in the bowfront. Those things are like pretty little cockroaches! LOL I'm glad they can't live out of the water, or they'd take over the world! I'm sure you'll hear me complaining when I'm trying to get them OUT of the 125! LOL They swarm pretty well when I'm feeding them, so hopfully I'll be able to use that to my advantage.










and I lucked out today.







There's a new pet store in town and I found some Rotala indica and some vals pretty cheap. Planted the Rotala and there were multitudes of bubbles coming up from the substrate. Not sure if I'll use the vals in this tank or not. The Endlers seem fine so far.

Do you think it's a good idea to press down on part of the substrate each day to try and make more of the H2S escape?


----------



## dwalstad

> Do you think it's a good idea to press down on part of the substrate each day to try and make more of the H2S escape?


Your tank looks great! You've already gotten baby swords?

I wouldn't worry about your substrate. I'd leave it alone.

Substrates give off lots of gases which are pretty harmless- CO2, methane, Hydrogen, etc. Most of its probably CO2. Your substrate may bubble for many months.  Your plants will love the CO2!

I am 99.9% sure that your tank is safe for the Goldfish.

I say this because:


your guppies seem to be doing well

the ammonia/nitrite readings have settled down. That means that the substrate is stabilizing which also means that any H2S production is likewise decreasing.

if you're using real soil, then there's enough iron to neutralize any H2S produced.

My substrates bubbled for months and the fish were fine. I doubt that you have an H2S problem.

Only if your tank water smells bad would I be worried. Also, it soun


----------



## DataGuru

Interesting. The tank smells ok, but the bubbles do smell like rotten eggs. 

The two apple snails and the Endlers are doing fine. A couple of ramshorn snails have died, but I haven't seen any MTS deaths and those I'd think would be the most vulnerable since they like to burrow in the substrate. Think I should add some more MTS?

Just to be on the safe side, I'll wait till less gas is bubbling out of the substrate before adding the goldies. That'll also allow the plants to get their root systems more established. That'll also give me time to build up some more plants to use to convert the 55 gallon tank to a natural planted tank after I move the goldies. 

Oh... and thanks for the tip on the 100 micron filter media from docs foster and smith and how to clean it. It's AWSOME! 

Betty


----------



## dwalstad

> Originally posted by Betty:
> Just to be on the safe side, I'll wait till less gas is bubbling out of the substrate before adding the goldies. That'll also allow the plants to get their root systems more established. That'll also give me time to build up some more plants to use to convert the 55 gallon tank to a natural planted tank after I move the goldies.
> 
> Oh... and thanks for the tip on the 100 micron filter media from docs foster and smith and how to clean it. It's AWSOME!
> 
> Betty


You're very welcome!
In this situation, time is on your side. I agree that it sounds like a good idea to let the plants get well-rooted before you add your Goldfish.


----------



## DataGuru

It's about 6 weeks now since it was set up. It's turning into a jungle. Still lots of stinky gasses coming out of the substrate. The Endlers and snails seem happy. Found a clutch of mystery snail eggs yesterday.










Left side: The ozelot sword has a stalk with several plantlets on it. 









Middle: I think I like the chain swords better than the hairgrass. I've already had to prune the sunset hygro.









Right side: The Wysteria is finally filling up the corner.









Oh yea... the ozelot sword bloomed yesterday.


----------



## dwalstad

Your tank looks great! I'm envious. I'd love to put my Rainbowfish in a tank like this.


----------



## DataGuru

Well, I'm not sure it's going to be a goldie tank. It's been around 5 months since the tank was set up. The Endlers have been doing fine in it and breeding like there's no tomorrow. The plants are doing great. NitrAtes are only 20ppm, pH is 7.6 and ammonia was 0ppm... Still bubbling a bit from the substrate and it still smells like H2S. So I fished out like three quarters of the Endlers and moved the goldies in. Here are some pics.

The full tank









Left side









Middle









Right side









The first day, they're having a ball... scrounging everywhere for food. Feasting on snails, etc. But... in the process they do piledrivers with their faces into the substrate. No problems at all with then getting to the soil, but the pressure on the substrate releases gas bubbles which go into their mouths. They appear to be spitting the bubbles out their mouths... and don't show any signs of stress. I test ammonia before I go to bed and it's up to .5ppm. ok that's not too bad given the pH. The next morning I get up and ammonia is still at .5ppm. I leave them there for several more hours till I see that everyone is breathing more rapidly than normal and seem lethargic... The big chocolate oranda (Coco) is just hovering a couple of inches below the surface breathing rapidly, so I put them back in their tank. Today they're still acting a bit lethargic, especially Coco. I'm just not sure the natural planted tank thing is going to work for goldies.


----------



## dwalstad

I would add an airstone to your tank, maybe a couple airstones for a larger tank.

Oxygen deficit can be a problem, especially in tanks containing fresh soil. There's so much decomposition going on in the soil that it depletes the water of oxygen.

Because my fish were breathing heavily, I'm running airstones for about 6 hours late at night (midnight to 6:00AM). The air pumps are on timers. 

The airstone would also help drive off gases released by the substrate.


----------



## DataGuru

Perhaps... Tho I'm still worried about the gasses from the substrate making it into their mouths when they forage on the bottom. Floating by I can live with cuz it's not that soluable in water.

I need an ORP meter.


----------



## imported_Ronin

> Basically it's pvc, and clamp on worklights suspended from the ceiling by a couple of chains. I meant to put together a DIY page on it, but didn't tank enough pics of process.


Cool tank!

I'm curious. I really like what you've done with your lights and may try it myself. I can figure the fixtures and pvc out, but did you simply run the plugs from the shoplights through the pipe and plug all of them in individually or did you rewire them onto one circut?


----------



## Miss Fishy

What a gorgeous aquarium! How frustrating that it is taking so long to settle down. I hope you will eventually be able to put the Goldfish in - they look so lovely amongst all that greenery! 

Would temporarily putting egg crate over the gravel help with the problem of the fishes getting bubbles in their mouths? Or could you perhaps lay some plastic chopsticks close enough together so the fish couldn't get to the gravel?

By the way, what is that square net in the top two photos? And where are the Endler's? Or are they in the net? 

From Alex.


----------



## DataGuru

Re: Lights... I really like them so far. easy to move out of the way to work in the tank and I don't worry about frying me or the fish. If I had it to do over, I'd have put several more on and had them butting up against each other instead of being spaced out. or perhaps made two sets staggered and joined by pvc.

I ran the cords through the pvc and spliced them onto one plug from an extension cord.

There's some debate as to how much light the compact fluorescents put out. I'm not light geeky enough to know for sure. The bulbs say they use about 20 watts and put out the same amount of light as a 75 watt incandescent bulb, so I was counting them as 75 watts each. Several people I know say they only count for 20watts each. So that would mean it's only 100 watts. I recently added 6 more of the smaller shop lights to it. That should bring it up to 220 watts over the 125. I've been meaning to start a thread and see if the light geeky people can explain it.

The tank is beautiful. I soo want it to work out for the goldies. The eggcrate idea is interesting. Don't know how I'd do that with all the plants in there tho. I'll have to think on that. It would have to be something that wouldn't let them press on the bottom. plus it would have to not be rough on my big moor who's a bottom dweller. plus, if there is a way to get stuck in it or hurt on it, they'd find it. LOL

That's a breeder net. I was fasting some Endlers that I'm selling on aquabid before shipping them. You can see a few Endlers near the top of the water in the middle pic. They're small and are masters at hiding! The pics from 4/6/05 show quite a few: http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/125tank.html

some close ups of the endlers are here:
http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/endlers.html
http://photobucket.com/albums/y130/DataGuru/Endlers/

The males are gorgeous, however they breed way too prolifically for me. I'll bet there's at least 500 of them in the 125. at least. I need to break down and get something that eats them.







I was really pretty shocked that the water quality numbers were so good with them in the tank.


----------



## Miss Fishy

That's a lot of Endler's! I'm surprised the larger Goldfish don't eat a few. 

Hmmmmm. I hadn't thought of the fish hurting themselves on the egg crate. It might be a bit rough of their mouths. And the chopstick idea wouldn't work - they would probably just push them out of the way. 

I know what you mean about fish getting into things you wish they'd leave alone. I have a Weather Loach who is 10 years old now. He used to move things around the tank and do a spot of "gardening", but he's settled down a bit with time. Only problem is, he's now over 20cm long and about 2cm wide, and very strong. As he swims around, he crushes plants by accident when his tail hits them! 

From Alex.


----------



## Phil Edwards

That's a beautiful tank Betty! I love the wild and natural look it's got with all those plants intergrowing like they are. Even the surface is attractive with the different floaters!

Out of curiousity, what's the temperature of your water? With that much light and being near a south-facing window I'm wondering if it' just not too warm for the goldies since the Endler's are doing ok. It's also hard to think about a lack of O2 with all that plant mass in there. 

Well done!
Phil


----------



## DataGuru

Thanks Phil.









It's around 76-78F (same as my goldie tank). No direct sunlight now that it's not winter so the temp stays pretty stable. Yea... but the plant mass is a double edged sword. plenty of O2 when the lights are on I'd bet (no pearling tho), and plenty of CO2 at nite.

It took several days for the goldies to get back to normal activity levels after going back in the goldie tank. Coco parked in the plants for a couple of days. I'm not sure it was either CO2 or O2 that was the problem.. tho the nite time Co2/O2 levels could have contributed. If it had been just that, the effects should not have persisted for several days after moving them back to their tank.

Scooter, my little oranda scared the ****ens out of me recently. I did a partial water change on their tank and then couldn't find him anywhere! Looked behind and under the tank... no Scooter! Moved the pots around on the left side... no SCOOTER! Looked in the plant filter... NO SCOOTER!! by this time I'm freaking out. I have a craft basket on the right hand side that's full of sunset hygro. but it's flush up against the side of the tank. Didn't even think I'd find him there, but somehow he'd gotten stuck between it and the wall of the tank. Doofus fish!


----------



## TWood

Hey Betty,

Do you know of any online goldfish suppliers? Goldfish Connection and Fish Express are both not shipping at the moment. I'm moving and this is a good time to complete the transition to goldfish in my 90 gallon. I'd like to get a pair of large 7" red and white Ryukins with good colors and fins.

Thanks,

TW


----------



## DataGuru

There's Tommy down in Dallas
http://www.goldfishnet.com/home.asp

You could also try aquabid.com


----------



## TWood

Thanks Betty,

Dallas is 'up' from here, so I might make the drive. Really nice fish.

TW


----------



## DataGuru

Oh, you're in austin! Didn't notice that.









So are you planning quarantining them?


----------



## TWood

No, I don't think it's necessary, especially since they will be the only inhabitants.

TW


----------



## TWood

Sorry to stay off topic here, but I had another question about goldfish and water. In Austin our water is average hardness and has no unusual characteristics. We're moving to Kerrville where everybody has water softeners. It's my understanding that water softeners work by exchanging ions with salts. Would I be better off trying to fill the goldfish aquarium with water pre-softener, or does it matter?

Thanks,

TW


----------



## DataGuru

Found their annual water quality report
http://www.kerrville.org/UtilityAdmin/2003CCRSummary.htm

It does have some info in it.
Looks like nitrAte is really low. cool.

The LC50 for copper for carp is listed in the toxicity literature at only 0.14 ppm (Per Roddy Conrad), and kerrville averaged .27ppm in 2003. copper is less toxic in harder/more alkaline water, so I wouldn't make it too soft. and make sure your water conditioner binds heavy metals. He doesn't mention anything about lead, but in 2003, they exceeded the limits for lead in one month out of the year.

also you don't want to make it too soft, cuz if it has decent KH levels, you may end up with a really high pH, cuz calcium helps to stabilize pH.

Roddy gives a pretty decent overview of what he considers good water parameters for koi. should hold true for fancy goldies as well.

the water quality reoprt doesn't give hardness info, etc, so I e-mailed them. I'll let you know what I hear back from them.


----------



## TWood

Thanks Betty!

We will be on a non-town community water service, but I suspect the numbers will be similar. I guess my $13 Petsmart goldfish will have to play guinea pig before I go shopping for the high dollar fish.

TW


----------



## IZM

Betty, love the tank and light setup! When you started out what was your soil to gravel ratio? The gravel layer looks pretty thin compared to the soil layer so I was just wondering what the ratio was for future reference.


----------



## DataGuru

TW: LOL oh and when I was reading, it appears there is lots of limestone around there. I'd bet it's going to be hard and well buffered.








Check out our new goldie board!
http://p097.ezboard.com/bthegoldfishandaquariumboard

IZM: Thanks.







It was around an inch of soil and an inch of gravel.


----------



## TWood

> Originally posted by Betty:
> TW: LOL oh and when I was reading, it appears there is lots of limestone around there. I'd bet it's going to be hard and well buffered.


Oh, we got limestone alright. The "topsoil" is about an eigth of an inch deep and then it's limestone all the way. Here's a view of the airport from our new backyard. The Guadalupe River is in between, if you can believe it!

TW


----------



## DataGuru

So what'd your water end up being like?

Here's something I've been wondering about lately. The 125 and the other two smaller tanks (29 and 20 gallon) are bubbling up gasses less frequently now, so this is probably somewhat of a moot point.

Wikipedia says:
Long-term, low-level exposure (to H2S) may result in fatigue, loss of appetite, headaches, irritability, poor memory, and dizziness.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_sulfide

For the last few months, I've had three of those symptoms (fatigue, irritability, my memory seems worse). Could be a coincidence. but my house is faily new with good seals on the windows and doors. Makes me wonder about having three newly set up tanks, one fairly large, bubbling up gasses. I don't actually notice a smell unless I'm working with the tank and it bubbles up at me. so that means it's most likely less than 0.002 ppm.


----------



## TWood

I found the bypass valve for the water softener and used straight water with some Prime. Two days, the goldfish is doing fine, so I guess it's okay. I've got a new pair of the 8800K 96W PC lamps on it now and it looks great. I was asked this morning if the tank was 'real'.

TW


----------



## DataGuru

Very cool! Is it planted?


----------



## TWood

I'm going back and forth between Kerrville and Austin, so forgive the delays in answering, we still haven't moved our internet account. 

It's been planted about a week now and is looking better every day. Looks like some diatoms are having their run, but other than that I think it's going to do well. I may use the softened water for some of the water changes and see how the plants take it.

TW


----------



## TWood

I talked to Tommy in Dallas and will be making a trip up there soon. I'm getting a pair of 6-7" red and white veiltail Ryukins, to be named Zen and Eddy because the tank is set up as the back wall of a river eddy with a Zen rock garden. Can't believe what I'm paying for them, but sushi runs about the same per pound. ;-/

TW


----------



## DataGuru

Oh my gosh. I'm sooo jealous!! LOL


----------



## DataGuru

Well, the plants are growing like gangbusters.









The ozelot sword just keeps sending out runners with plantlets on them. The amazon sword is also sending off runners as well as the unknown plant in the left front corner. The sag subulata has gone nuts and isn't a foreground plant anymore except in the area shaded by the big amazon sword. I pulled up over 30 of the tallest sag subulata plants yesterday is the only reason the entire left hand side isn't totally a sag jungle from top to bottom. I think I'll pull some more today and move them into other tanks as background plants. It's interesting tho... the floaters (duckweed, frogbit, and salvenia) aren't growing much at all these days. I used to be able to scoop out enough duckweed for a daily snack for the goldies and now I'm lucky to get them a snack weekly.

The Endlers are still doing fine, breeding like Endlers do. The male betta I had for several months in the 125 has died I think. He was resting a lot and wasn't handfeeding, and now I haven't seen him in over a week, so I'm assuming he's snail food. The lone killifish is still fine. I added some cherry shrimp a while back, and I haven't seen them, so I don't know if they're still alive or not. Recently added a lone whiteskirt tetra who seems fine so far.


----------



## dwalstad

Your tank is unbelievable. It's hard to see the water much less the fish!

I'm sure that many folk would be thrilled to have a tank with this kind of plant growth.
At some point you may want to thin out plants. I threw a bucket full out this morning.

Bettas aren't the only ones that will go after young livebearers. A few angelfish will quickly polish them off. If you decide not to add your Goldies to this tank, a small school of Angelfish might look very nice in this tank?


----------



## DataGuru

LOL Well, the season's starting to change. I'm seeing direct sunlight starting to come in the south windows. That will be something to see when it start hitting the tanks again.

Right now, since the Endlers are in what was supposed to be the goldie tank, they are working on buying me a new goldie tank. After they do that, I may put some angels in with them. dunno. I may just continue to let the Endlers and plants reproduce madly to help support my fish habit.


----------



## Miss Fishy

Wow! If you had been able to keep the Goldfish in there they wouldn't have been able to move by now! I hope when I eventually set up my 132 gallon tank that it gets to look something like that.

What is it with plants that grow runners? Some _Vallisneria spiralis_ that used to be a nice clump behind some driftwood in one of my tanks are now taking over. They send long, thick runners up over the wood, with roots that look like claws trying to gain a foothold, and are not bothered at all by my Weather Loach pulling them up repeatedly!

From Alex.


----------



## DataGuru

LOL, Yea my jungle vals are spreading rapidly in the 20 tall natural tank, but the spiralis aren't doing much in that same tank. That's just weird if you ask me.


----------



## Miss Fishy

My Jungle Vals in the same tank as the monstrous _V. spiralis_ grow slowly and never put out runners!

From Alex.


----------



## DataGuru

Well I picked up some blackworms last weekend at our local aquarium club meeting. Right now they're in a large plastic tub with around 3 inches of water, a little gravel from an established tank, a filter pad from an established tank, an airstone, najas grass and a 20 watt light. I also plunked in several clumps of gravel that had a bunch of hair algae sticking it together. Since I put those in, I haven't seen any blackworms to speak of. I picked up a clump just now and yep. the blackworms are in it. I'm contemplating taking one of the clumps of gravel/hair algae and sticking it in amongst the sag subulata. That should give the worms a fighting chance to get established. ya think?


----------



## Miss Fishy

As long as you don't have worm-mad fish that can dig (my tank with the Weather Loach never has very many worms!), they shouldn't have any trouble hiding from predators. In my tanks they only stick their noses out during the day (at night they sometimes creep about in the plants), and as soon as a fish goes past they whoosh into the gravel. Even my Pygmy Perches, which are super fast and agile, can't catch them unless they hover with their noses just above the gravel for many minutes and wait for a worm to come out. 
You might have trouble seeing them in such a large tank! They are easier to find at night using a torch. You have to be quick 'though because they don't like the sudden light and disappear fast. 

What are you feeding them? I've found they don't like fishfood much; they take ages to eat it and it fouls the water easily. They prefer dried, decaying tree leaves, chopped up aquarium plants and mulm. 

From Alex.


----------



## DataGuru

I'd tried an algae wafer, but I didn't see any worms go for it. I syphoned some mulm from another tank into it this weekend and have been contemplating what else to put in there. I may just put them in the 3 natural planted tanks and be done with it as I'll be getting some cherry shrimp in a couple of weeks and I need to clear out a tank for the shrimp. I put around a dozen cherry shrimp in the 125 here while back and either they're dead or hiding in the vegetation (which really wouldn't be hard to do in that tank!).


----------



## Endlersmom

Betty, 

I like the pictures showing the natural progression of your 125 Gal. 

I also like your site.


----------



## flagg

Absolutely spectacular tank! Do you sell any of your extra plants? I'd definetly like to buy some if you do. Also, I don't know if you answered this already, I don't have the time right now to go thoroughly through 5 pages of posts, but what does 375 W of lighting run you a month? Do you know?


----------



## DataGuru

Thanks.









I now have 11 20 watt compact fluorescents on it. Let's see if I can figure it out. From the last bill, I'm paying $.08 per kilowatt hour. 220 watts is .22 kilowatts. If I run the lights 16 hours a day, that would come to about $8.41 a month. and sure... just pm me.


----------



## DataGuru

Got some updated pics tonite. It's now a livebearer tank housing Endlers, Swordtails and mollies. (and snails and shrimp)

Full tank. I pulled 200 sag subulata plants out this weekend. 









Left side:









Middle









Right. The amazon sword has at least 100 plantlets on it. It's taking up almost half the tank.


----------



## DataGuru

We decided to move the angelfish into the 125.
Put him in there and decided the tank needed some work to give him room to swim. I spent HOURS yesterday pulling tall sag subulata plants out of the foreground of the tank. Replaced them with some e tennelus that should stay short. *knock on wood*

Anyhow the webcam is currently pointed at the 125. There's a bit of glare happening from the south window behind the tank. I'll try and get some pics and post them later.


----------



## aquabillpers

I have both E. tennelus and S. sublata on the same 20 gallon long, one at the left side and one at the right. The tennelus is growing taller than the sublata, although there are taller and shorter individuals.

The more light E. tennelus gets, the taller it grows.

The tennelus and sublata are growing toward each other, but they will never meet. Life is too short.









Bill


----------



## Jane of Upton

Hey Betty!

that's too funny - you had mentioned elsewhere that you were looking for larger fish to thin the Endler's population, and I suggestee angelfish, not knowing you had one. I think he/she'll be VERY happy in the 125, with the Endler's to snack on!

Your tank is looking very lush! Have you found that the Giant Hairgrass takes a long time to establish? I've had some for months, and it isn't dying, but its not growing noticably, either. 

I've really liked the pictures documenting the development of your tank!
-Jane


----------



## javalee

I wish I had such a home for my bored angel. In fact, he volunteers for your Endlers-thinning project! What a fun tank to watch!


----------



## DataGuru

Bill: don't you EVEN tell me this is going to get tall! ROFLMAO I am determined to have a foreground someday!

Jane: Yea, I've been considering putting him in there for a while now. Dunno why I haven't. His mate is in the hospital tank at the moment. Her popeye I thought I'd cured came back.

It's hard to see my giant hairgrass with all the sag in there! I can't tell if it's spreading or not. I have to top it off from time to time, and the tops look happy, so I'm assuming it's happy.









Java: I'm not sure anything will be able to keep up with the Endlers unless I get an oscar or something of the sort!

Photobucket's up, so here are the pics:

Full tank after pulling up about 4 inches of the s. subulata all the way across the front of the tank. It took HOURS. Some of the crypts that were buried by the sag are still there. I'm auctioning the mutant sag I pulled up on aquabid.









Left side... The Angel already looks like he owns the place. I didn't realize he was so big till I put him in the 125.









Middle:









Right side. That amazon sword has like a hundred plantlets on it. I moved some over to a high tech 10 gallon tank, as they weren't putting out roots in the 125.









I think the Angel's happy as a clam.


----------



## Miss Fishy

Wow! The tank is looking great. I had a look at the webcam and that Angel looks right at home. 

From Alex.


----------



## DataGuru

Yes, I think he likes it. I have been treating his mate in QT and finally moved her into the 125 today. They were happy to see each other.

Picked up some more blackworms at the local aquarium club meeting this afternoon. Used a turkey baster and squirted some down near the substrate in the 4 natural planted tanks in areas of heavy plant growth (after I fed the fish) so maybe they'll have a chance to get settled instead of getting eaten. I think I'll put the rest in the tub I have set up for them. I'm ambivalent tho, cuz it has dragon fly larvae in it and I would be surprised if there aren't some leeches as well. apparently I didn't look thru the last batch of blackworms thoroughly enough!

Also picked up six juvenile Butterfly Goodeids (Ameca splendens) which went into the 125. They're supposed to like hair algae and they're endangered in the wild, so hopefully they will work out. Right now, they kinda blend in with the Endlers.

I had to shuffle some other tanks cuz of more new fish (red cambodian bettas and copadichromis azureus) and more cherry shrimp, so I moved the flying fox into the 125 as well to free up the 20 long for the shrimp. Hopefully the shrimp will thhrive this time, and I won't get bit in the butt for not quarantining the newbies.


----------



## DataGuru

It's time for an update on the 125.

I'm finally starting to get a foreground happening, tho the sag is seriously invasive and hard to tell apart from the tenellus until it gets taller than the tenellus. I haven't done any plant pulling-out for a couple of weeks now. Residents include two angels, 5 female ameca splendens (the male was too aggressive, so he's out in the pond), 2 skirt tetras, 1 flag fish, some swordtails, some rosy barbs, a flying fox, some cories and a bunch o Endlers and snails (mainly ramshorns and MTS). 









Left side:









Middle:









Right side:


----------



## pineapple

Glad Wet Thumb came to APC because I had a chance to read this thread. Very interesting indeed. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Miss Fishy

Beautiful! The foreground looks great. Are all the original plants still in the tank? If not, have you removed them or were they smothered by the Sag forest? 

From Alex.


----------



## DataGuru

You would not believe how many sag subulata plants I've pulled out of that tank. That stuff grows like crazy.

Letsee. The bronze crypt wendetti over on the left hand side is original and is doing great now that it's getting some light! and there is some of the crypt lutea left under the huge amazon sword. I've been thinking about moving it into a different tank so it can get some more light. The ozelot swords are still back there, but you can't see them. and that large wavy leafed sword (Martii I think) is still growing well--left front. The big emergent sword on the left side still puts out a few leaves. In the middle back there are jungle vals and giant hairgrass (both of which I've had to remove a bunch of). The sunset hygro, wisteria and water sprite are all history. the latter two because it was impossible to separate the hair algae from the plants. Oh yea and the najas is also still there. So yea... quite a few original plants are still hanging in there.

Ever since I had the mishap where the powerhead excavated a hole in the substrate, I've had some algae growing on the glass (that used to never happen) and I'm seeing some brown algae on the big sword. I think the fish I've added are helping with the hair algae or maybe cuz it's not getting direct sunlight, that's helping. This afternoon, I noticed that the sun is starting to come in... about an inch sliver, so the season's changing and I'll have direct sunlight on the tanks again soon.


----------



## Minipol

Very very nice tank.
Only 1 comment on my part is that angels are supposed to be kept in a group of at least 5.
I wouldn't add any however because once they are established they might become very aggressive to new comers.
Other than that, quite some jungle tank you've got there


----------



## DataGuru

Interesting. I've never heard anything like that re angels. I have read that in order to get a mated pair, you need to get 5 or 6 and wait for them to pair off. then offload the others.


----------



## Minipol

That's indeed what you can do too. But they are still group animals. IMO the offloading is because of problems when people add a few then, then a while later they add 2 more and then war breaks out. To solve the problems they then offload the other angels.
I have 2 tanks setip as South American, one with 3 established couples and a loner (7 in total) and another with 6 (1 couple).
They hold these mock fights where they go diagonal and jump forward but that's all and that's how they should behave. I've never seen damage.
At one time, in the big tank, the couples laid eggs at the same time without problems.
Mine are F1 and a few Fx so maybe that has something to do with it?


----------



## texasbec

Hey Betty, your tank looks fabulous. It's what I aspire to with my new 75 gallon npt.

Minipol, I am interested in you angelfish experience. I have 3 which I just moved from a 20 gallon tall into a 75 gallon. They seem to be one pair and one single. Should I try to add 2 more? They aren't very old, maybe 4 or 5 months (I got them 3 months ago and they were quarter size).

There has just recently been some aggression between the males over establishing territories in the new tank.

Sorry to hijack your thread Betty.


----------



## DataGuru

I adopted these two angels as a mated pair from one of my daughter's friends. I can't imagine having a herd of them! LOL

Becky... It's quite interesting. Hijack away.


----------



## Minipol

If the tank is heigh enough and there are some hiding places or plants the angels can run in when attacked, i would (if your tank is otherwise not overstocked) add 2 more.
BUT i would take the other 3 out first and add them back to the tank all 5 at once. Introduce them back as a group. Also, i would make sure the new ones i get are about the same size.
Remember that they will fight so unless the fighting is really getting nasty (with big injuries that is) i would leave them be.
In a group of 5, the aggression will be shared amongst the 5 members of the group. That's quite natural and how it happens in nature.
However, there is always a chance that the new ones won't be accepted. It would be handy if you could return them then


----------



## dwalstad

Hi Betty,

Just took a look at the photos of your 125. It's beautiful!

Diana


----------



## DataGuru

Found some flowers in the 125 today. It's either sag subulata or jungle vals.










Here they are opened up more.


----------



## DataGuru

It's been a while since I've updated this thread...
Got some updated pics of the tank this evening. It's still doing very nicely other than I still have to fight to have a foreground.

Plants include a huge amazon sword on the right, background is sag subulata, giant hairgrass and jungle vals. Some najas grass mixed in there as well. On the left is crypt wendetti bronze and some other sword plant. Foreground is e tenellus. Some duckweed and water lettuce floating.










Doesn't look like there are any fish in it. :lol
but there are.
gazillions of Endler's Livebearers
female bettas
turquise rainbowfish
bunch o corys
featherfin catfish
dojo loaches
bristle nose plecos
a flying fox
an ameca splendens who just won't be caught
MTS and ramshorn snails
I had the move the angelfish out as the ameca splendens and endlers were eating his finnage.









Here's the left side closer up. That bunch of bronze crypt Wendetti is awsome. 


















got some decent pics of the rainbowfish




































and one of the albino corys


----------



## aquabillpers

That aquarium gets better looking with each passing year!  

Congratulations, and thanks for the update!

Bill


----------



## Endler Guy

I think I'm in love with the turquoise rainbow fish!!!


----------



## texasbec

It looks soooo good. Even if it doesn't have goldfish in it.


----------



## dwalstad

This tank is gorgeous! And my favorite fish-- the Turquoise Rainbow! What a treat to see your pics. Thanks so much for posting an update.


----------



## DataGuru

Yea, I can't wait till they grow up!

Got a video this evening of some of the inhabitants.
Mostly featherfin catfish and corys in the video. 




I'm finally having some success with actually having a foreground. LOL


----------



## Angie

Wow that is all I can say is wow. Lol going to go with a el natural someday for my 75 gallon but not till the goldfish have "moved on".
Your tank is impressive.


----------



## kenny1tothe6

WOW!! I need some more plants!! unfourtionatly the Goldfish took over my 29G and my moms bettas took over the 20G so the 29G went artificial and stole the 5 gallon fish and plants and put them ALL in the 10G. There are 21 fish in there (but luckily that counting shrimp and kuhlie loaches, etc....)I plan on getting a better tank for them but cant because Im starting virtual school and need to buy a laptop. Apologies, Im sorry to get offtrack...but this is an impresive tank....are the angels still alive?


----------



## DataGuru

The female angel died and I never did find her body. The male is fine, however, I had to move him out of the 125 cuz an ameca splendens and Endlers were eating his finnage. He's living in a 150 now with my single tailed goldies. Inhabitants now are:
12 turquise rainbowfish
a billion Endler's Livebearers
a lone danio
3 dojo loaches
5 featherfin catfish
bunch o corys
several longfin albino bristlenose plecos
20 or so female bettas
pond, ramshorn and MTS

The best cheap places to find used tanks are
craig's list
local aquarium clubs
http://okcaa.org/clublinks.html

Heck, even a large rubbermaid tub would work in a pinch. LOL


----------



## kenny1tothe6

DataGuru said:


> The female angel died and I never did find her body. The male is fine, however, I had to move him out of the 125 cuz an ameca splendens and Endlers were eating his finnage. He's living in a 150 now with my single tailed goldies. Inhabitants now are:
> 12 turquise rainbowfish
> a billion Endler's Livebearers
> a lone danio
> 3 dojo loaches
> 5 featherfin catfish
> bunch o corys
> several longfin albino bristlenose plecos
> 20 or so female bettas
> pond, ramshorn and MTS
> 
> The best cheap places to find used tanks are
> craig's list
> local aquarium clubs
> http://okcaa.org/clublinks.html
> 
> Heck, even a large rubbermaid tub would work in a pinch. LOL


I am sorry to here about your angel. My angel also lives with my goldfish in the 29G and he is getting big!!....I plan on converting my tanks to this:
29G----45G (goldies!)
10G----29G (small tropicals and angelfish)
(and sometime!)29----to a 125G!

I have to say...your tank must be BEAUTIFUL! I love my tanks but cant take care of them now because I am still very sick with a B-A-D stomach virus! 
Oh yea...I also forgot to say the 29G will be put up because it is bowed...but yea...I will upgrade the hermit crabs tank! I am also starting a 10G shell dweller tank...so yea...I have a lot of plans for aquariums....not all feasible yet though!


----------



## DataGuru

Got a new camera and thus some decent pics so I thought I'd update this thread. This tank has been set up around 4.5 years now and is very happy. My how time flies!





































Current inhabitants include
3 angels
a huge common pleco
multiple albino bn plecos
6 featherfin catfish
bunch o corys
bunch o endlers
couple of skirt tetras
a wild betta

Current plants include
L to R
Indian red sword (back L)
Bronze crypts (front L)
najas grass floating and rooted
water lettuce
anubias floating
e tennellus foreground
background is jungle vals, sag subulata, giant hairgrass
amazon sword (R side)

Lighting is around 2 wpg 6500K compact fluorescent and the tank sits by south windows.

Filtration is two penguin powerheads with foam prefilters.

300 watt heater.


----------



## dwalstad

Gorgeous tank!

It took a few months to get it established, but look at it now!
:hail:
Thanks for sharing pics with us.


----------



## clearleaf

Yes I'm sorry I didn't comment on this, I had meant to but got distracted. I, of course, particularly like the cave and the sword on the right. The shadows in the leaves are beautiful.


----------



## DataGuru

That sword is an interesting plant. It used to take up that whole end of the tank, however, I discovered that it had put off multiple daughter plants around the base, so it's back to being only one plant now. the cave is mainly for the featherfins and pleco who seem to love it in combination with the area under the sword. nice and cozy.


----------



## clearleaf

ohmigosh that fish is pretty


----------



## Shurik

Dear Betty, what a gorgeous tank you have!  Looks perfect to me! 
Forgive my ignorance, but I always assumed that goldfish can’t live with any tropical fish at all and it is a very difficult task to find a tank mate for them. Is it true? I have two lonely comets in 50 gal., but I would hate to risk their wellbeing by adding someone else :-k 
I know you know everything about the goldies! :hail:


----------



## DataGuru

I typically keep my goldies in species only tanks.

I do keep one or two bristlenose pleco in with them to keep the brown algae eaten and the tank walls cleaned for me. The main caviates there are no bottom sitting goldies and the bn has to be larger than the goldie's mouths.

I also have Endler's livebearers who come in with the duckweed I feed to the goldies from my other tanks.

Regardless it's good to quarantine any newbies and to have a back up plan in case it doesn't work out.


----------



## FishandTurtleJunkie

Very natural feeling.


----------



## Extrame

hello dataguru,
love your tank! i followed your step-by-step on how to set up an EL natural tank.
hope i would have great growth like yours but recently i have been having nutrient deficiency.
any updates on this tank?


----------

