# Eco Complete question



## Newt

Can any one provide the nutrient breakdown of Eco Complete that is listed on the bag? I want to compare it to Flourite. I emailed Carib Sea and never heard back.


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## John N.

I'll have to take a closer look at my bags. But here's what I pulled from the Review section of Eco Complete.

CaribSea Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium Substrate: Contains Iron, Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium, Sulfer plus over 25 other elements to nourish your aquatic plants. Caribsea Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium Substrate contains all the mineral nutrients needed for luxuriant aquatic plant growth without nuisance algae! The Caribsea Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium Substrate is Iron rich which eliminates the need for laterite and is also Nitrate and carbonate free which will not increase pH or carbonate hardness. There is no artificial dye, paint or chemical coating because it's real!

The CaribSea Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium Substrate also contains live Heterotrophic Bacteria to rapidly convert fish waste into natural food for your aquatic plants. The Caribsea Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium Substrate also creates a natural biological balance which makes cycling in a new aquarium faster and safer. With it's unsurpassed MacroPorosity for healthy roots and bacterial efficieny - you would have to buy 4 bags of ordinary gravel to equal the surface are of this one bag of Caribsea Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium Substrate! 

Not sure if it says it on their website www.carib-sea.com since it's not loading for me. But maybe worth a look. 

-John N.


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## Newt

Thanks. I know it has the breakdown in parts per million for all of those compounds. Do you have a bag that lists it?


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## John N.

Yup it had the info listed on the bag. Here you go. 

Iron - 41,625.02 ppm
magnesium - 23,116.30 ppm
calcium - 33,065.61 ppm
potassium - 5,296.37 ppm
zinc - 77.78
sulfur - 360.81 ppm
manganese - 975.71 ppm
sodium - 12,916.97 ppm
aluminum - 43,152.08 ppm
silicon - 4,498.92 ppm
chromium 49.76
cobalt - 33.41 ppm
barium - 336.91 ppm
strontium - 278.09 ppm
nickel - 32.80 ppm
titanium - 4,486.78 ppm
vanadium - 239.01 ppm
lithum - 8.37 ppm
boron - 2.26 ppm
cadmium - 1.91 ppm 
*plus others

Literally says "plus others". Hope you'll find all this useful. 

-John N.


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## Newt

Thanks so much, John.
I going to do a side by side with Flourite and will post the document in this thread. I have flourite in my tank but am probably approaching, or soon will be, the end of useful life so I will be changing out the substrate at some point. I have be reading about lots of problems with the EC causing high pH conditions and/or phosphate leaching and maybe that it leaches all of its nutrients into the water column. I love the all black look but Seachem is coming out with an all black flourite by end of 2006 or early 2007. The only issue I have with flourite is the RINSING needed.


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## Newt

Here is a side by side comparison of Flourite and EC in parts per million:

Nutrient Flourite EC
Aluminum 10210 43152
Barium 124 337
Boron na 2
Cadmium na 2
Calcium 195 33066
Cobalt 6 33
Chromium 13 50
Copper 17 na
Iron 18500 41625
Lithium na 8
Magnesium  2281 23116
Manganese 64 976
Nickel 12 33
Potassium 2195 5296
Silicon na 4499
Sodium 223 12917
Strontium na 278
Sulfur na 361
Titanium na 4487
Vanadium 15 239
Zinc 29 78
(10,000 ppm = 1%)

That's a lot of sodium and aluminum in EC. I'm wondering if all of these nutrients are necessary. I still have my doubts about EC due to the pH issues, potential leaching into the water column. I must say that I like the amounts of calcium, magnesium, potassium and iron. They claim it won't cause algae yet I've read many complaints about algae issues. They advertise that it's real but they don't say natural. They do say "natural black substrate..." but it maybe naturally black but man made. It's 20# a bag but how much of that is water weight. And: "- wil not increase pH or carbonate hardness in the long term." Yet RINSING Flourite is a pain in the back.


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## Newt

The attached excel spreadsheet may be easier to read than the above display turned out.


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## erik Loza

Just curious: Are these differences that germane to what you'll be growing?I have just never seen somebody make an excel sheet of stuff to line the bottom of an aquarium with, before. Curious to know. Thanks in advance.


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## John N.

Nice spreadsheet. Really makes it apparent that Eco Complete contains more nutrients than Flourite. I always though Eco Complete was naturally made, and basically drilled and mine from volcanic rock. I remember someone emailing CaribSea and they said they used strainers to gather a certain grain of rock that they package in the bag. 20 lb bag is including the water it's packaged in according to my scale. 

How important is this all? Hmm, not all that important if CarbiSea didn't have issues with bags of Eco Complete that they had been forced to add additives to correct, which wack out water parameters like Newt describes above. Substrates like Eco and Flourite are nearly equal, and with any planted tank water column fertilization is nearly necessary any way, so the amount of nutrients in a substrate is not as important as the amount of nutrients in the water itself. 

It's when people have problems with algae, and pH and know they aren't adding anything else, then it must be the substrate that is screwing up water parameters. And those additional substrate nutrients could be good to know to solve an additive issue. That's my take on it. 

-John N.


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## erik Loza

John N. said:


> Nice spreadsheet. Really makes it apparent that Eco Complete contains more nutrients than Flourite. I always though Eco Complete was naturally made, and basically drilled and mine from volcanic rock. I remember someone emailing CaribSea and they said they used strainers to gather a certain grain of rock that they package in the bag. 20 lb bag is including the water it's packaged in according to my scale.
> 
> How important is this all? Hmm, not all that important if CarbiSea didn't have issues with bags of Eco Complete that they had been forced to add additives to correct, which wack out water parameters like Newt describes above. Substrates like Eco and Flourite are nearly equal, and with any planted tank water column fertilization is nearly necessary any way, so the amount of nutrients in a substrate is not as important as the amount of nutrients in the water itself.
> 
> It's when people have problems with algae, and pH and know they aren't adding anything else, then it must be the substrate that is screwing up water parameters. And those additional substrate nutrients could be good to know to solve an additive issue. That's my take on it.
> 
> -John N.


Thx. I have a lot of Eco-Complete in my current plant tank and wasn't aware of that.


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## Newt

I have learned from my many years of aquarium keeping to delve into the micro world of knowledge. I once had a phosphate issue when starting my first big planted tank. I had a PO4 test kit that was 0 to 50 ppm and I was well above 50 ppm and couldnt figure out where the phosphate was coming from. A very knowledgable and intelligent individual at fishindex.com suggested I test my gravel for phosphate. Of course I thought this was crazy but this was my problem.

Also, many plants are root feeders (like swords and anubias) and do not get their nutrients from the water column. So if you want good healthy plants that are root feeders then you need to give them what they like.

BTW, John N, your answer was well said.


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## John N.

Thanks Newt. The Phosphate issue was and is exactly the issue with Eco Complete. It raises the phosphate levels for a few months, until it's finally relieved with all those water changes during that period. There's lots of threads here, that detail what happened with corrupted Eco Complete (most visible marked by white specks and rocks). 

-John N.


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## liquidsmoke

Newt said:


> Here is a side by side comparison of Flourite and EC in parts per million:
> 
> Nutrient Flourite EC
> Aluminum 10210 43152
> Barium 124 337
> Boron na 2
> Cadmium na 2
> Calcium 195 33066
> Cobalt 6 33
> Chromium 13 50
> Copper 17 na
> Iron 18500 41625
> Lithium na 8
> Magnesium 2281 23116
> Manganese 64 976
> Nickel 12 33
> Potassium 2195 5296
> Silicon na 4499
> Sodium 223 12917
> Strontium na 278
> Sulfur na 361
> Titanium na 4487
> Vanadium 15 239
> Zinc 29 78
> (10,000 ppm = 1%)
> 
> That's a lot of sodium and aluminum in EC. I'm wondering if all of these nutrients are necessary. I still have my doubts about EC due to the pH issues, potential leaching into the water column. I must say that I like the amounts of calcium, magnesium, potassium and iron. They claim it won't cause algae yet I've read many complaints about algae issues. They advertise that it's real but they don't say natural. They do say "natural black substrate..." but it maybe naturally black but man made. It's 20# a bag but how much of that is water weight. And: "- wil not increase pH or carbonate hardness in the long term." Yet RINSING Flourite is a pain in the back.





John N. said:


> Thanks Newt. The Phosphate issue was and is exactly the issue with Eco Complete. It raises the phosphate levels for a few months, until it's finally relieved with all those water changes during that period. There's lots of threads here, that detail what happened with corrupted Eco Complete (most visible marked by white specks and rocks).
> 
> -John N.


I created this account simply to thank you both for this information!  Newt, you the same guy from Aquarium Advice? Pretty sure we have chatted over there if so. I also wanted to ask, what was the final decision on the substrate? I just got a 125gal and am trying to decide which route to go. Im leaning more toward Flourite, but maybe a mixture of both? Thoughts? Thanks again.


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## Michael

Liquidsmoke, welcome to APC! I can't answer your questions, but we hope you stick around.


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