# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Found trace mix in my local hydroponic store



## Stevenl (Mar 31, 2004)

The content of the trace mix is as follows:

EDTA chelated Iron (Fe) 5%
Mn 2%
Zinc 0.4%
Cu 0.1%
Boron 1.3%
Mo 0.06%

That's quite close to the content of Plantex's CSM. Although it doesn't contain Magnesium, it's not a problem as I add epsom salt to my tank weekly.

So, are the ingridents ok?
If so, can anyone tell me how to mix and how to use the solution?

thanks!!!

Steven










66G tank with 2.7 wpg shoplights, DIY Co2 and 50/50 flourite substrate


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## Stevenl (Mar 31, 2004)

The content of the trace mix is as follows:

EDTA chelated Iron (Fe) 5%
Mn 2%
Zinc 0.4%
Cu 0.1%
Boron 1.3%
Mo 0.06%

That's quite close to the content of Plantex's CSM. Although it doesn't contain Magnesium, it's not a problem as I add epsom salt to my tank weekly.

So, are the ingridents ok?
If so, can anyone tell me how to mix and how to use the solution?

thanks!!!

Steven










66G tank with 2.7 wpg shoplights, DIY Co2 and 50/50 flourite substrate


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

That sounds like a good mix. For your tank I would mix 2 tablespoons in 500 ml of water and then dose around 5-7 ml twice a week. And be sure to do water changes to avoid Cu buildup.

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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Rex, would you mind reposting the contents of Plantex's CSM that you use?

I want to find something similar locally.

Thanks


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

How about a link instead. http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/pmdd-tim.html

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## Stevenl (Mar 31, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Rex Grigg:
> That sounds like a good mix. For your tank I would mix 2 tablespoons in 500 ml of water and then dose around 5-7 ml twice a week. And be sure to do water changes to avoid Cu buildup.
> ...


Thanks for the advise~









Do you think the copper concentration of that trace mix is too high? Or it is within a safe margin?

Steven










66G tank with 2.7 wpg shoplights, DIY Co2 and 50/50 flourite substrate


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

IMHO all the commercial terrestrial trace mixes have copper amounts that are much too high for long term aquatic use. That's why I recommend the weekly massive water changes to avoid the copper buildup.

An example here is Flourish. It has a copper level of .0004%. It would be very hard to get lethal levels of copper in the water column using Flourish. But your trace mix has a level of 0.1% dry. Mixing that at the rate of 5 g in 500 ml of water will still give you a copper level of 0.001% (if my math is correct) which is still way to high for heavy dosing.

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## Stevenl (Mar 31, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Rex Grigg:
> IMHO all the commercial terrestrial trace mixes have copper amounts that are much too high for long term aquatic use. That's why I recommend the weekly massive water changes to avoid the copper buildup.
> ...


Thanks Rex~
I just digged up some old posts about Plantex CSM and they made me a bit confused about the dosing amount.

http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=4006090712&f=6606090712&m=4926041342&r=7896013342#7896013342

In this post you stated that you mix 2 teaspoons of CSM with 500ml of water and dose 2~3ml biweekly. So, for my 66G, is it ok for me to dose about the same amount as you do (instead of 5~7ml you advised me earlier)? I am just too paranoid about the high copper concentration.

Thanks










66G tank with 2.7 wpg shoplights, DIY Co2 and 50/50 flourite substrate


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

That's a good start. I have since upped the dosage of my 55 gallon with no ill effects.

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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Steven,

Before you take the plunge on the trace mix there, consider going down to visit Eric at King Ed. By combining Kent's Botanica Grow and Micro you will get a far superior product, and the cost might not be that far off, espicially if you buy in bulk.


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## Stevenl (Mar 31, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Justin604:
> Steven,
> ...


Hey Justin thanks for the advise~
however the price of Kent's botanic product is just too expensive compare to the trace mix i am using. For less than 10 dollars I got 500g of dry trace mix. Mixing it with water will give me a solution that lasts for a very long time







But hey...the look of the Botanica line is really attractive! Too bad I don't have the $$...

BTW...how's ur tank doing? any pic?










66G tank with 2.7 wpg shoplights, DIY Co2 and 50/50 flourite substrate


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

What kinda deal were you offered on the Botanicas stuff? BTW thier cost was $3 a bottle, if you buy a bunch like I am about to they will give it to you for not much more then that. 

The tank is doing exceptionally well. I decided to go with a group of swords, that have doubled thier size in the last week. all form Tropica. I don't think they will look very organized as far as an Amano tank goes, but I really wanted to work with some of the different plants and find out what I really like. I want my tank in the end to look very dense and natural, but for now it's a hadge podge of 15 different plants at least. Even the water spearmint is doing so good I took almost all of it out. 5 pots worth. Also I bought One piece of Frogbit the size of a toonie to monitor iron, and tommorow I am gonna take a diner plate size patch of it to work. It's a weed! Also got some Ludwigia Arcuata that I am totally curious to see what will turn out. I did redo my tank with the clippings you gave me and most of them are reaching for the top of the tank. I am gonna cut the tank down this week, really low and take a pic. Also gonna chop down lots of the stems like the liliopsis and the wisteria. Not really feeling it. I have a few types of Val, the 20'+ Corkscrew is neat, and the one Val type with Red is very cool, but they are spreading SUPER fast, and I can see they are already gonna be trouble. If you want any cuttings let me know.


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## Stevenl (Mar 31, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Justin604:
> What kinda deal were you offered on the Botanicas stuff? BTW thier cost was $3 a bottle, if you buy a bunch like I am about to they will give it to you for not much more then that.
> ...


Seems like you know Eric so well that he would tell you the cost of the chemcials. Definitely gonna ask you to help out if I am getting something big from king ed









Glad to hear your tank is gonig back to shape! Tonight I took out a huge bush of pennywort from my tank and I plan to replace it with something different. Gonna go to king ed tomorrow to hunt for plants coz the new shipment should be arriving tomorrow.

Do you mind listing the plants you have? I am interested in trying some sword plants if you have some surplus. Do you fertilize the substrate for them (besides the flourite you already have)?

Steven










66G tank with 2.7 wpg shoplights, DIY Co2 and 50/50 flourite substrate


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

$3 a bottle is pretty high when one looks at the price of chemicals.

Take the potassium product. It says to dose 1 ml per 10 gallons each week. That might bring your K level up to 1-2 ppm. You want it to be 20 ppm. The product contains 40,000 mg/l of K. If I do my math correctly that means that for a 10 gallon tank you would actually want to dose 10X the recommended dose (help me out here you math wizards) to get to 20 ppm. You can get K2SO4 for around $3-5 a pound and for a 10 gallon tank that would be around a 3 year supply.

I buy all bulk fertilizers for my tanks. I also split them out with fellow hobbyists. Bulk is much cheaper than any prepared product. Why pay good money for water when you don't need too?

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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Steve,

Hmmm What I can give up some of right now is V. Spiralis, V. Something with red leaves?, H. Something or other, that grows riduclously fast, Swords yes I have a few different types, I will write them all out tonight. They are small though as I just got them, but I have 2 larger plain E. Amazonicus or whatever that you can have.

I plan to add some Seachem root tabs, but when the rep sends me a free box to try first.

Rex,

Yes I know the prices are high, but I was told by a number of people that Soluable Potash for K is FAR superior to Potassium Sulphate, and that the Sulphate it a major problem without huge water changes. Not true? I would rather avoid problems....


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Not true. And you really should be doing water changes. I do 50% weekly on my 55 gallon.

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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Bah water changes! I try to keep up to my weekly 50% but sometimes a miss a week here and there, and I don't want to add anything that will mess my tank up if I don't do weekly.

My Asian Arowana got 50% twice a week minimum. Sometimes double that. But for some reason I can't justify this heavy regime to a tank I add back all the bad things that build up in water. The only reason I think I do it is to keep the traces in check, specially copper. Without daily dosing N bottoms out, P the third and I am sure K is down by then too.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

O I should add I am not that good yet at dosing post water change and usually the plants are stunted for a couple days untill I get the levels back to the appropriate level. I am better at testing a couple times a week and eyeballing the tank and keeping everyone happy.


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## Stevenl (Mar 31, 2004)

hey Justin,

I am still waiting for your plant list~









Actually, I am going to get a fluval 204 from king ed. Do you think you can help me to get that 30% discount you mentioned?

Steven










66G tank with 2.7 wpg shoplights, DIY Co2 and 50/50 flourite substrate


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Hey Steven,

Sorry about the list i totally forgot. I will do it tonight, an updated list I mean. Also, the fluvals are dirt cheap as it is, not sure if they are even marked up 30%. I could go down there with you one day if your not busy, but my car is not on the road right now, so you will have to pick me up!


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Steve,

King Eds brought in the Filstar XP line of filters, DIRT cheap. I would STRONGLY recommend them over the Fluvals. I am not sure what the XP2 is but the XP-3 is only $169. WOOT!

As far as the plants go, here is what I can get ya.

V. Spiralis, V. Something with red leaves?, H. Something or other, that grows riduclously fast, I will post pics tommorow. E. Amazonicus (the plain old amazon sword)E. Osiris and a few other assorted plants that I do not know the names of. Give me a couple days and I will get some pics up. That might help. I just got some L. Arcuata from Tropica that is gonna be nice one day soon, and we have another order from tropica comming soon and then I will have more plants for ya.


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## Stevenl (Mar 31, 2004)

Hey Justin,

Thanks! Actually I am getting the fluval 204 for my uncle. I will let you know when he really makes up his mind.

Yeah post a picture of your tank up. I really want to see it.


















66G tank with 2.7 wpg shoplights, DIY Co2 and 50/50 flourite substrate


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

See your private topics. My tank is to ugly to show the public yet!


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## ned13b (Mar 27, 2003)

Here in Canada, at home depot they sell "Later's Stump Remover". It claims it is KNO3 as well.


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