# What plant is this?



## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

I have this growing but I no longer know what it is.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

_Lobelia cardinalis_


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Oh great! So if I get a 500 gallon tank I can use it as a foreground plant? Is this the same plant they grow as a three inch group or is there a smaller form?


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## Yo-han (Oct 15, 2010)

Cavan Allen said:


> _Lobelia cardinalis_


Are you sure? That would be the biggest I've ever seen!!


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Yo-han said:


> Are you sure? That would be the biggest I've ever seen!!


I'm not sure where the 'small form' stands botanically, but it looks to me like that could be standard _L. cardinalis_, which can indeed get pretty big.


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## JMN16150 (Jul 16, 2013)

It is indeed the normal bog garden variety, unlike the 'dwarf/stunted' variety that circulates in the aquarium hobby. Sadly those are too big to be used as a foreground, but makes an impressive background plant. It can grow red flowers if left to grow for sometime above water.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Do we know that there are two forms?


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## asukawashere (Mar 11, 2009)

There are definitely two, a large and small form, but as Cavan noted, no one's certain how they differ from a taxonomical perspective—whether they're truly distinct varieties, regional variants, a dwarf cultivar derived from a sport, or whatever else.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Okay thanks all. I guess I'll have to see if I can move it outside this summer.


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## miremonster (Mar 26, 2006)

I've seen the dwarf form flowering, the flowers looked like those of standard L. cardinalis, but I didn't check them closer.
Regarding taxonomy of Lobelia cardinalis, it's interesting that on "The Plant List" a lot of synonyms is listed, also varieties etc., but only the name L. cardinalis is accepted there, without subtaxa. 
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-352312
Also e.g. Lobelia fulgens, that name is used in horticulture for plants differing from standard L. cardinalis. Or L. graminea = L. cardinalis var. graminea, referring to narrow-leaved plants from Central and South America. (In aquarium literature L. cardinalis is referred to as a North American species)
http://plants.jstor.org/specimen/p00714427?s=t (don't know if the lower leaves are narrow as well)

So it seems that Lobelia cardinalis in the broader sense is a polymorphic species. Perhaps there are more forms that would differ from normal L. cardinalis under the same conditions, but not kept as aquarium plants yet.


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## asukawashere (Mar 11, 2009)

BruceF said:


> Okay thanks all. I guess I'll have to see if I can move it outside this summer.


This is a very hardy plant, so it should do just fine outside... and it will readily winter over should you decide to keep it out there permanently.



miremonster said:


> So it seems that Lobelia cardinalis in the broader sense is a polymorphic species. Perhaps there are more forms that would differ from normal L. cardinalis under the same conditions, but not kept as aquarium plants yet.


I'm also curious to know how some of the cultivars developed for horticulture would appear submersed-most are bred for different color flowers, but a few, for instance 'Black Truffle,' have different foliage characteristics ('Black Truffle' was selected for its deep maroon leaves)-I wonder how that would translate to submersed culture. For that matter, some of the hybrid Lobelia derived from a cardinalis parent might be capable of aquatic growth-a cross between L. cardinalis and L, siphilitica (also a wetland plant, but not, to my knowledge, a submersed grower), perhaps?


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Most of my perennial beds probably don't get enough water to keep it . I think I'll have to pot it and keep it in the half barrel on the patio.


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## miremonster (Mar 26, 2006)

asukawashere said:


> I'm also curious to know how some of the cultivars developed for horticulture would appear submersed-most are bred for different color flowers, but a few, for instance 'Black Truffle,' have different foliage characteristics ('Black Truffle' was selected for its deep maroon leaves)-I wonder how that would translate to submersed culture. For that matter, some of the hybrid Lobelia derived from a cardinalis parent might be capable of aquatic growth-a cross between L. cardinalis and L, siphilitica (also a wetland plant, but not, to my knowledge, a submersed grower), perhaps?


Yes, I'm curious as well. And it seems that such stuff with purplish leaves is already in the aquarium plant trade, labeled L. cardinalis: http://www.wasserpflanzen-freunde.de/catalog/images/lobelia-cardinalis.gif
But I don't know how it does in tanks.

Has anyone ever tried to grow Lobelia siphilitica submerged?


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## asukawashere (Mar 11, 2009)

miremonster said:


> Has anyone ever tried to grow Lobelia siphilitica submerged?


You know, that's a good question. I've never heard of it happening, and I did do a pretty thorough search when I obtained one for my pond, but I'm limited to English-language references. Maybe Cavan will have more info on that front. If nothing else, the GWAPA guys seem to have stuck everything imaginable into a tank at some point or other...

...I wonder if L. dortmanna could be crossed with L. cardinalis? That'd be interesting to see!


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## miremonster (Mar 26, 2006)

asukawashere said:


> ...I wonder if L. dortmanna could be crossed with L. cardinalis? That'd be interesting to see!


 Heehee, such a Frankenstein-like hybrid would really be amazing!
AFAIK, there's quite a number of wetland Lobelia species worldwide, who knows how many could be grown under water (and crossed).


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