# Question: Knock off Lily pipes vs. The Real Lilly Pipe



## niko

So I see a plethora of companies making things that resemble the original ADA lily pipe. A little different looks, some great looking, some kind of funky.

My question is - do the knock offs perform like the real Lily pipe? Do they make use of the wide "head" to actually increase the water flow? Do they involve water from the side of the center jet? I assume the vortex is easily done because you can do it even with just a piece of tubing e that does not look like the Lily pipe.

I hope more than a few people answer "yes" to that from personal experience. If not I don't know what to say. Why buy the fake if it only looks like the real thing? Just get a bent glass tube.

Please, post if you have first hand observations about the flow increase and involving the water from the sides.

--Nikolay


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## TLe041

I've owned ADA, Cal Aqua Labs, and eBay (Aquaticmagic) lily pipes and think that they're extremely similar. Any output with that trumpet shape will give you a vortex effect. It mainly depends on the flow of your filter.

Of the three, the only one I'm most impressed with is the Cal Aqua. Their borosilicate glass is definitely the strongest of the three. I've broken the intake tube on both other sets by simply cleaning them (the same way) using a spring cleaner.


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## niko

What about involving the water from the sides?

And what about increasing the flow?

ADA's pipe does the above 2.

--Nikolay


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## Bunbuku

TLe041 said:


> I've owned ADA, Cal Aqua Labs, and eBay (Aquaticmagic) lily pipes and think that they're extremely similar. Any output with that trumpet shape will give you a vortex effect. It mainly depends on the flow of your filter.
> 
> Of the three, the only one I'm most impressed with is the Cal Aqua. Their borosilicate glass is definitely the strongest of the three. I've broken the intake tube on both other sets by simply cleaning them (the same way) using a spring cleaner.


I have both CalAqua and ADA sets. I have broken many of the ADA intake pipes. Most common they literally snap at the intake slots or the suction cup stems during cleaning. At $90+ a pop you bet I was careful! I think that I get better circulation with the CalAqua because the design of the intake is less restrictive. Keep on mind this was used with an Ecco 2236, not the Superjet.

Workmanship of old (circa 2008) CalAqua pipes was not as good as ADA. But the CalAqua set I bought this year was comparable to ADA.


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## IUnknown

The glass pipes I've used broke and I almost cut myself. I was going to go back to plastic pipe to not deal with it. After reading all your posts on flow in the aquarium I think I'm going to give the glass pipes another go Niko. IMO, ADA products are mostly brand name. I'm not really interested guchi type products. Some things there is no other choice because no one is doing them (their tanks). But things like cabinets, I'd rather source locally for $450 then spend $1k because the ADA ones have paint like you see on cars. Its not worth it to me for the incremental improvements in performance for the large amount of price delta. Some people like apple pc's, some like microsoft pc's, they both get the job done.


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## Michael

Several people on this forum and others make acrylic lily pipes. I would like to hear how they compare to ADA, CalAqua and other glass pipes.


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## niko

Hm, and I still haven't heard anything more than "ADA breaks easily, CalAqua doesn't". So why use a Lily pipe in the first place? A curved piece of glass tubing will do the same thing + not be as visible as the "bell" of the Lily pipe.

Someone please chime in how well CalAqua increases the flow and involves water from the sides of the Lily pipe. These were my original questions. At this point it sounds like I'm the only one aware of these 2 features of the ADA Lily pipe. That can't be true.

--Nikolay


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## jeff5614

niko said:


> Hm, and I still haven't heard anything more than "ADA breaks easily, CalAqua doesn't". So why use a Lily pipe in the first place? A curved piece of glass tubing will do the same thing + not be as visible as the "bell" of the Lily pipe.
> 
> Someone please chime in how well CalAqua increases the flow and involves water from the sides of the Lily pipe. These were my original questions. At this point it sounds like I'm the only one aware of these 2 features of the ADA Lily pipe. That can't be true.
> 
> --Nikolay


I'm definitely aware of those features since adding a set of lily pipes to my tank. One filter has replaced two and a pair of Koralias with better water movement that's a lot more directional. Unfortunately though I can't help with the question. This is my first set of lily pipes and they also happen to be ADA pipes.


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## bsmith

What do you mean involves water from the sides of the pipe and how do you know that ADA pipes increase flow other than that is what ADA says they do? If your assuming that because the ADA have a wide head means nothing, all lily pipes ADA and knock offs have a wide mouth design. 

One thing I can say and concur with above statements is that Calaqua does have very tough glass. This I know from personal ex.


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## niko

Cause I've seen it with my own 3 (three) eyes. And don't get me wrong - if I see something stupid that ADA does I'm not going to sugar coat it.

Now I hope that the person that will give us an informed opinion about ADA/CalAqua will also explain what is this mysterious involving of water from the sides. Because I made it up. Or did I?

Maybe this topic should have been "Why did you buy knock off ADA Lily pipe?". And see how many people say "...'cause ADA is cool but overpriced.".

--Nikolay


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## JustLikeAPill

Having had both, side by side, and used both...

They WORK the same, IME, but the quality of the knock-offs is pretty bad... they are easy to break, the glass isn't as thick or as even... just overall crappy. You get what you pay for. 

But they do the same thing. They make the same flow pattern discussed at length in your older threads, they both pull the water from the sides, etc. 

IME, What you are getting when you buy ADA Vs. Knock off pipes is quality, not any performance benefit.

I haven't tried the Cal Aqua pipes... but the outflow is pretty ugly IMO. I don't see any benefit of their inverted design over the attractive lily pipe IMO, but I havn't studied it and have no experience with them. The lily outflow works very well and gives plenty of flow to the bottom of the tank, anyway.


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## bsmith

You have seen an ADA pipe working then took it off and put on a knock off and saw more flow from the ADA?

Your smart enough to know that no matter what the design if the outflow is that it cannot make the filter flow more. The only thing that could give the perception of more flow is higher output pressure but the lily pipes do the opposite of this by giving you one large exit of the water instead of many small exits like a spraybar does. 

So again I ask, what makes you think that an ADA lily pipe can increase flow?


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## niko

Your first question is exactly what I'm asking. 

Forget it, man. Thank you for the bump. 

I really start to feel that this thread doesn't make sense to most people. If I have to explain I will really feel that the majority of folk get Lily pipes only because they look cool. Asking about anything ADA is pretty sad - it shows how much we don't know just about every time.

CalAqua uses thicker glass than ADA. ADA pipes look cool and set the trend but break easily. That's the lesson from this thread and I didn't know about it so at least I and maybe someone else learned something.

Nice.

--Nikolay


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## bsmith

You asked a question that makes no sense. If you think differently then please explain.


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## lanceduffy

Here is what I can add:

There are different types of flow. The flow through the FILTER has little to do with the type of flow in the TANK. I don't think Niko was specific enough with regards to this when he spoke of flow. The output pipes determine the type of flow in the tank.
Here is a little blurb on fluid dynamics, I perked up during the paragraph on laminar and turbulent flow:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_dynamicsand please remember that this information is simplified.

Hasn't this been talked about before Niko? Are you trying to add something or just trolling? If so, could't you just add it? Your execution of the Socratic method here can be an overly emotional experience. Can I get an emoticon for that?


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## niko

My original 3 questions were not meant to motivate anyone to think. I was just curious about the fake ADA pipes because I saw a little different shapes and in one case - a reversed "bell".

If they were not done to copy the original ADA pipe then maybe they improved on it. The reversed "bell" is a radical difference and if it is done just because it looks different whoever designed it could do a little more reading. Or educate the potential customers why their pipe looks like that.

What I saw from this short thread is that people buy fake Lily pipes because they are cheaper and because at least one copycat brand uses thicker glass. That could be misleading, the thread is too short.

BSmith,

There is more to the ADA Lily pipe than just looks. And it's not only the ability to create a vortex. I don't know if the other things matter for the average hobbyist. It appears that people don't even know about them and go for the looks.

All I got to say is "Sorry for asking."


--Nikolay


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## Riverboa

I looked into this when I first encounter Cal Aqua lilies. According to CalAquaLab, the downward bell is supposed to direct flow to the lower part of the aquarium (http://www.calaqualabs.com/Fluxus.html) they implied that it is good for the plants.

I use both ADA and CalAqua outflows at the same time (running two filters) in one of my tank (plus a couple of koralias) - they both create vortex (big deal, koralia does that too). 
But I must say I prefer the cal aqua pipes because of their two suction cups design, I find it a lot easier to deal with (getting it up right / not at an angle / not touching the side of the tank, etc) , I usually supplement the ADA pipes w/ eheim suction cups to overcome this problem.


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## JeffyFunk

I think it's appropriate to expand upon the point that Riverboa made about the CAL lily pipes. Although I do not have a hardcopy of the newest ADA catalog, I believe that Amano clearly states that the ADA lily pipes are designed to direct the flow of water across the aquarium, not down into the aquarium. As you know already, the circulation pattern that you talk about is from the water hitting the end of the aquarium, flowing down the side and then back across the bottom. The CAL lily pipes, on the other hand, were designed to direct the flow of water down into the aquarium. ADA realizes that there may also be a need to have this type of flow in the tank and he specifically suggests that you then use the DoAqua Violet glass lily pipe. This lily pipe, although it looks like the regular ADA lily pipe, is shaped so that the "lily" directs the flow of water down into the aquarium. (The "poppy" line is just weird - Ask Bunbuku - he's got a thread somewhere that compared the regular ADA line and the DoAqua line.)

Keeping this information in mind, I think it is really the direction of the lily pipe that is important. Personally, I've used the PowerMan knockoff Lily pipes and, although they do circulate the water across like the ADA lily pipes (which I've never used), I would not recommend anyone use them because they are made so poorly. (I had one of the suction cups snap off from the pipe one day when I was at work - fortunately my partner had just gotten home, called me to ask why I had water shooting up into the air, and was able to shut off the filter before the living room got flooded.) I have also tried the ANS lily pipes. Those are made from a better quality of glass, but they seem to be an odd size as they didn't fit the tubing on my canister filter... Grrr....


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## bsmith

niko said:


> My original 3 questions were not meant to motivate anyone to think. I was just curious about the fake ADA pipes because I saw a little different shapes and in one case - a reversed "bell".
> 
> If they were not done to copy the original ADA pipe then maybe they improved on it. The reversed "bell" is a radical difference and if it is done just because it looks different whoever designed it could do a little more reading. Or educate the potential customers why their pipe looks like that.
> 
> What I saw from this short thread is that people buy fake Lily pipes because they are cheaper and because at least one copycat brand uses thicker glass. That could be misleading, the thread is too short.
> 
> BSmith,
> 
> There is more to the ADA Lily pipe than just looks. And it's not only the ability to create a vortex. I don't know if the other things matter for the average hobbyist. It appears that people don't even know about them and go for the looks.
> 
> All I got to say is "Sorry for asking."
> 
> --Nikolay


I still dont understand what you are trying to ask/convey here. Your first post asked a question that really makes no sense "Do they make use of the wide "head" to actually increase the water flow?" since again no apparatus at the end of a filter outlet can "increase" water flow. Now there are quite a few products that can increase water "movement" by increasing the output pressure and there by moving more water further across the tank. Is that what you meant and you just used the wrong words?

Then you start to talk about intangible things that the lily pipe provide which again makes no sense because that is up to the person who owns it to make a decision about how the pipe effects things that cant really be measured.

I have a feeling that this thread could go the way of your Super Jet thread. I'm not going to contribute to that but I will say what I said in that thread. If a hobbyist feels that spending more money on something, whatever the reason may be, that is fine because that is their decision. Obviously you really like ADA products which is wonderful. They are very nice. I will continue to purchase ADA tanks since I feel that the craftsmanship cant be beaten for the money. However when it comes to glassware I will be spending my money with CalAqua.


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## IUnknown

From what I understand the upside down bell of the ADA pipes is to pull surface scum from the top of the tank into the water. Surface scum is common with planted tanks and the lily design helps to prevent it.
I would imagine cal aqua changed the design to avoid litigation.


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## lanceduffy

Sorry Niko. I was confused.


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