# recommended setup for gowing submersed crypts



## jeffrey richard (Jan 10, 2007)

I have several extra 20 gallon longs and 29 gallon tanks in my fishroom. I was thinking about setting up one or two to be (primarily) a crypt nursery ... C. wendtii, C. Blassii, other commonly available crypts. Assuming that these will be low-tech tanks (I'll use 40 watt bulbs/shop lights) with either no CO2 or DIY co2 injection, can y'all recommend an effective setup ... particularly substrate and substrate additives. Soil? Peat? laterite?

How would this change if I were to use terra cotta pots as planters in bare bottom tanks?

Thanks


----------



## SCMurphy (Jan 28, 2004)

If you want a cheap set up that will grow crypts for years, go with a thin scatter of dolomite and a 1/2 inch topsoil/clay mix (about 95 to 5 soil to clay) under 1 inch of chick grit with your shop lights. CO2 if you want and power heads to move the water.


----------



## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

SCMurphy said:


> If you want a cheap set up that will grow crypts for years, go with a thin scatter of dolomite and a 1/2 inch topsoil/clay mix (about 95 to 5 soil to clay) under 1 inch of chick grit with your shop lights. CO2 if you want and power heads to move the water.


Yup, what he said. Soil grows some of the best Crypts I've ever seen.


----------



## SCMurphy (Jan 28, 2004)

Kind of like this:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/32043-el-natural-with-a-twist-long.html


----------



## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Instead of red clay, I use a very red sand used by builders around here in Central Mississippi for foundations and road beds. There is a huge supply of it in Eastern Louisiana and the builders use it primarily becuse it is sand, not because it has a lot of iron oxide in it. I mix a small amount of it (about a tablespoon) with a quart of topsoil from the woods or from my back yard. I then mix in two teaspoons of bone meal as a calcium supply and pH buffer. The bone meal also supplies phosphorus, but, since plants get phosphorus very efficiently also from the water column, I don't feel that phosphorus is necessary in the soil. I then mix in about 1/4 of the total volume---one to two cups---of peat. I then mix in an equal volume of aquarium gravel.

Two to three inches of the final mix is capped with an inch or less of aquarium gravel. It grows crypts for me very well for years. I grow most of my crypts in glass baking pans, and in a year or two they get crowded and packed with roots, runners and little plants. When it is time to bust up this densly packed mass of roots and plants I recover the gravel and start over.

The picture below is an example of overcrowded baking dishes where it is time to bust up the plants and start over.


----------



## jeffrey richard (Jan 10, 2007)

Does one need to mineralize the soil as described by AaronT, or can you use it right from the bag?


----------



## Teeleton (Jun 8, 2006)

It's best to let the soil "air out" for a few days before putting it in the tank. This way some of the ammonia that accumulates in the soil cooped up in the bag can escape before you submerge it in water.

Teeleton


----------



## rs79 (Dec 7, 2004)

HeyPK said:


> .
> 
> The picture below is an example of overcrowded baking dishes where it is time to bust up the plants and start over.


Dat's very impressive Paul. How long did it take those plants to overcrowd their containers?


----------



## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

Teeleton said:


> It's best to let the soil "air out" for a few days before putting it in the tank. This way some of the ammonia that accumulates in the soil cooped up in the bag can escape before you submerge it in water.
> 
> Teeleton


The ammonia doesn't escape so much as it gets converted to NH4 (ammoniumm) , which is useful to plants, but not to algae as it's less likely to enter the water column. This is the reason for mineralizing the soil. This isn't a necessary step if you are going pure El Natural via Diana's method. However, I chose to go with high lighting and pressurized CO2. I still had some algae from the start, but now things are settled in very nicely.

Also of importance is the rinsing portion of the cycle. This helps to remove any unwanted fertilizers, pesticides or any other chemicals.


----------



## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

> How long did it take those plants to overcrowd their containers?


That is about two year's growth.

Regarding ammonia in the soil, I find with my nitrate test kit that, if I compost plant material in soil and then extract the soil with water I get a lot of nitrate. While I have not tested the extract for ammonia, the existence of all that nitrate means that nitrifying bacteria have converted the ammonia originally released in the decomposition of proteins and other nitrogenous compounds to nitrate. So, it seems likely that ammonia in normal soil with access to air (oxygen) is converted to nitrate.


----------

