# Just making sure... New Member



## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

Well here it goes..

This is going to be my first attempt at a 20 gal planted aquarium.

Before I had read Ecology of the Planted Aquarium I bought a Rena XP1 and can't return it now.

My plan is to take out the 30ppi mechanical filtration and leave the 20ppi and possibly fill the other two spots with two more 20ppi, which are porous. I also have bio-stars, but I figured I would just leave these out as well.

I want to have an amazon theme, but my tap water is high ph >8 and low hardness of <25ppm. Should I steer away from my idea? Or can I add dolomite gravel to my filter to fill the extra space and use acidic soil and bogwood to lower the ph?

Any help would be much appreciated!

-Kris


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## TeutonJon78 (Nov 10, 2004)

As I've learned from past playing with water parameters, don't play too much. 

And don't by chemicals to do it. If you can reach the lower level naturally with wood and such, I think you'd be ok. You might just want to check your pH with plants growing and see how high it goes at full photosynthesis.

Getting "specific" pH parameters (as well as other levels) can be a hassle. That is partially why you are doing an NPT tank...to not worry (as much) about them.


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## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

Thanks for the reply. I had a feeling I would be leaving it well alone. 

Well I guess all there is to do is try it out and see how it goes. Unless anyone else has any ideas...

BTW, good to see a fellow oregonian on the forum!


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## sb483 (May 29, 2006)

I recommend you read the book or at least the very last chapter (only a few pages); it goes over all the key points that you need to set up a low-tech, natural planted aquarium.

If by acidic soil you mean peat moss, the book recommends against adding any peat moss to the substrate as it slows decomposition (so your plants won't be getting the CO2 they need, unless you add it artificially).


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## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

I have read it... sorry for the confusion. 

I was talking about acidic garden soil. Mine has a ph of 6.


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## t2000kw (Jul 29, 2006)

The pH will lower itself to some extent over time. It has in our tanks, anyway. If you add fish right away, they will be in that higher pH water. If you wait a few weeks, it should come down some. That will give you time to address any nitrite spike you may see also (from the soil).


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## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

Great, thanks. 

OK, I know Walstad prefers to have no filter media in a canister filter and to use it for water flow, but she adds filters to her powerheads, so wouldn't that mean I need at least my porous media in my canister filter?

Anyone have any comments on the dolomite? Maybe vs coral, etc.

Sorry if this has been addresses in other threads, but I found myself finding mixed answers that didn't quite address each concern.


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## TeutonJon78 (Nov 10, 2004)

Well, I know one of the better (dare I say best) LFSs in Portland uses crushed coral to add buffering capacity. I have some, but I haven't tried it out yet. I think they said that like 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons or so. Not a lot...just enough to buffer without really up-ing the pH.


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Could you clarify - is it your general hardness (GH) that's low? Or your carbonate hardness (KH) that's low? Or both?

Also, forgive my ignorance - what does the term "ppi" mean? I haven't used filters for awhile LOL


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## dymndgyrl (Jan 22, 2007)

01krisp10 said:


> OK, I know Walstad prefers to have no filter media in a canister filter and to use it for water flow, but she adds filters to her powerheads, so wouldn't that mean I need at least my porous media in my canister filter?


From everything I've read, Diana uses Aquaclear Quick filters, which are basically small fine sponges that aid in mechanical filtration. She does not recommend biological filtration at all. Even if bacteria grow on the the quickfilter, it's not much and they are meant to be replaced or cleaned when dirty.

Yet so many people on this forum seem to use excessive filtration. A cannister filter is overkill for water movement, and all the media in it whether it be sponges or porous bits of whatever would be covered with bacteria ie. biological filtration, ie nitrates instead of ammonium for the plants.
By using biological filtration (even if you consider it 'just a little') you are throwing the NPT out of balance, and you might have to start adding other hi tech solutions to fix it (adding ferts, lights, co2)

Why not just use a simple power head + sponge prefilter (or not). That's the beauty of this method!


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## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

General Hardness is ~25ppm, so basically very soft water... Carbonate hardness is undetectable, so I can't get a good pH reading using my test strips. 

OK so I just had a thought; to get my pH reading I added baking soda, does the raise my pH or just make it readable? I used the bicarbonate calcultor to determine the amount. I feel really dumb about this one...

Oh yeah, PPI is Pours Per Inch.

I would love to trade someone for a powerhead + sponge prefilter, etc. for my Rena XP1, know anywhere I can do this? Otherwise I'm stuck using my rena as an expensive powerhead. 

Be nice, this is going to be my first tank.


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## treesmcdonald (Mar 14, 2006)

01krisp10 said:


> I would love to trade someone for a powerhead + sponge prefilter, etc. for my Rena XP1, know anywhere I can do this? Otherwise I'm stuck using my rena as an expensive powerhead.


The Rena is a nice filter. I have one on my 55 high tech and I love it. If you want to go totally El Natural without a filter buy a power head online. I just got one at Dr.s Fosters and Smith because none of the LFS in my area sell them. Either keep the Rena or sell it but don't go trading it for a $20 power head! If you do want to use it just take out all of the media but the 2 black foam pads and you should be ok.


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

If you wanted to raise your GH/KH (which is the one thing I'd recommend for you) then the Rena would make a nice place to put dolomite into. Other than that, I agree with treesmcdonald that the only other media to put in the filter would be the foam pads for mechanical filtration.

Of course, you can also raise GH/KH by adding hardwater salts/baking soda to your replacement water during water changes. Another option if you wanted to abandon the Rena.


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## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

Well I grabbed a quick filter and some extra filters. I put my rena up on craigslist, hopefully someone will want it. Yeah, I had no plan of trading it for just a powerhead and quick filter. 

I do agree the powerhead seems like the best option for my small tank (20H). Basically the Rena would end up being a very expensive powerhead... 

I have the bicarbonate calculator I guess I'll go with that at first to see how it goes as Baking Soda is cheap.


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## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

My brother runs NPT's in Portland city water and doesn't add anything to the make up water. I would go with it and see if you have a need to modify the water.

Brian


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## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

Well as I'm working out in my other post about dolomite, I noticed my KH is not sufficient to maintain pH. According to all the literature and Walstad.


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## Freerider (Nov 8, 2006)

Dont get rid of the Rena unless you have to. I know you are looking for a NPT but why not use what you have just in case you decide to upgrade to another tank or just add a larger tank. I think you will be fine with the canister with all the media that you have. I currently run a 35 g with a fluval 204 and a Pentair FBF, no C02 and only 2 18w t5 lights and my plants grow like wild. If you keep your current equipment you can use the media (once it has cycled and bacteria is on the biochem stars) to quick start new tanks or for holding tanks. Having mature media on hand for emergancies is really nice! I know you want a NPT but i dont think you are going to get your money back on that filter so why not try it at least.

If you want to create an amazon tank and are worried about PH then just use alot of drift wood. It will buffer the water and over time it will SLOWLY lower the PH. You dont want to much of a change between your tap and tank or you are going to be in for a real pain over the long haul.


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## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

Believe it or not I go my money back... guess I got lucky! Thanks for the advice, but I'm now going the powerhead route. I'll let you know.


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## Freerider (Nov 8, 2006)

Good luck then, just keep the fish load very low until things have had time to take off. I have a couple tanks that use just a powerhead for a filter and they are doing great. You should post some pics of your progress and your setup as you are putting things together. Cheers


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