# Need help with ferts!!!



## elliott89 (Jan 21, 2007)

Hi Guys

I just need some advice about EI dosing..ive currently been dosing ADA ferts in my moderatly planted,moderate light set-up and i haven't been to pleased with the results...mainly ive had hair algae problems since using the products and i thought nows the the time to change..ive just ordered from the seachem line
flourish,excel,nitrogen,phosporus,potassium...can i dose excel alongside these daily??? to help keep algae down???

My tank specs are

50 watts of T5 light,tank is 10 gallon i use pressurised co2 at 1 bps,substrate is jbl aquabasis topped with black quartz gravel..

Could someone tell what i should be dosing daily to get good results..if poss could someone give me a weekly dosing plan..im not very good at working things out lol and i wanna make sure i get it right

Many thanks

Elliott


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## elliott89 (Jan 21, 2007)

Can anyone help me out here???

I don't wanna get this wrong..i have used the fertilator and have been rather confused by the results and i have look at the other guide lines but they are all for dry ferts.

If someone could just give me an estimate of how much seachem ferts i should be dosing daily then i can work the rest out for myself

Many thanks

Elliott


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

For information, here is the Seachem recommended weekly dosing guide:

http://www.seachem.com/support/PlantChart.pdf

You need to be aware that this guide is for the "average" tank which is normally not well lit and doesn't have CO2...

So,

First of all, I'd increase their weekly water change recommendation to 50%. Then, for EI dosing (calculated based on 8g or 30l of actual water and using the FertFriend calculator, http://www.fishfriend.com/fertfriend.html as I'm not sure that all the Seachem calculations on the Fertilator are correct):

Day 1: 50% WC, add 3ml Flourish Nitrogen (7.5mg/l of NO3) and 10ml of Flourish Phosphorous (1.6mg/l of PO4). If you were using KNO3 then usually there's enough K (Potassium) but with the Flourish line, add 3ml of Flourish Potassium (4.5mg/l of K).

Day 2: 5ml of Flourish.

Day 3: same as Day 1.

Day 4: same as Day 2.

Day 5: same as Day 1 (perhaps no Potassium on this day).

Day 6: same as Day 2.

Day 7: no dosing

That should get you going. Keep an eye out on the plants for any deficiencies and adjust accordingly. Over time you can even reduce the amounts and watch the plants until you see a deficiency and then increase it a bit... that'll be the "sweet spot". But any changes will need several weeks to have an visible effect so patience is required.

There shouldn't be a problem dosing Excel at the same time. However for Excel to have an impact on algae it needs to be overdosed 2-3 times (only overdose the daily doses, not the initial dose). If you do a search here there is more info on overdosing Excel.

Keep the CO2 up and consistent also.


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

I just noticed you say "moderately planted". You may want to add more plant mass... always better to start out with more, especially fast growers that you can remove later once the tank is stable.


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## elliott89 (Jan 21, 2007)

Cheers for all that information Laith!!!

Very useful and i now feel closer to knowing what im doing 

One question..10ml seems like alot of phosphate..will it not make my algae worse???

Thanks

Elliott


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

Phosphate does *not* cause algae. What causes algae is an imbalance of nutrients. Excess phosphate can lead to algae only because there is a deficiency of other nutrients.

I've had up to 8mg/l of phosphate in tanks with no algae because there was also sufficient other macros, micros and CO2. If I had 5mg/l of phosphate and no Nitrates for example, I would probably have had an algae farm...

Concentrate on growing the plants, not on the algae. Once you get the plants healthy and growing well, algae tends to disappear or at worst becomes much much more manageable (not very visible or what little there is can be easily be manually removed)... . If done correctly and balanced well, it can almost be impossible to find. Don't make that your goal though because a tank with no algae is very rare, no matter what anyone tells you  .

Remember that with 50% weekly water changes, the *maximum *levels of any macros/micros you add will be 2x your weekly dosing. And that is without taking into account any plant uptake, which will be pretty high with good lighting and CO2!

But there is nothing wrong with starting with lower levels of phosphate dosing, but I wouldn't go below 1mg/l per dose. Much lower than that and the plants won't be taking up the nitrates as rapidly which leads to an imbalance = plants not growing as well as they should be = algae heaven.


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## elliott89 (Jan 21, 2007)

Laith..You have been a fantastic help..you've made everything seem much simpler to understand...i will start your dosing reigime as of next week and let you know how i get on 

On the days i dose flourish i'll also dose 1ml of excel...hopefully the extra carbon will help the plants grow aswell

Many thanks

Ive just ordered some more stem plants from aqua essentials too..lots of rotala and hydrocottle that grows fast!!!


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

You're welcome.  

Before your first 50% water change, manually remove as much algae as you can from the tank.

And just to make it all more fun, sometimes the situation will get worse before it gets better... so patience is required!


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

elliott89 said:


> ...ive just ordered from the seachem line
> flourish,excel,nitrogen,phosporus,potassium...


Hi Elliot

I have Seachem's chart that Laith showed you in a Microsoft Excel format. All you do is enter the gallons or liters that you want to dose and it gives you the amounts in ml's. It's calculated out to four decimal places and rounded off to one. It uses all of Excel's features. You can unhide the formulas to view them or you can change them. Just send me a PM with your email address and I'll send it. Please follow Laith's recommendations when using it. I've been using it as a test on a 10g tank with 80w of lighting and pressurized CO2 for about two years. It works well with this tank.

Laith, let me know also if you can use this calculator.


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## elliott89 (Jan 21, 2007)

Hi Again

Well im gonna start laith's dosing regime tomorrow..and i will be posting in this thread weekly to show how my tank changes due to EI dosing..ive followed your advice and bought some more stem plants too

Here is a pic of my tank as of today

Thanks

Elliott


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## kkau1 (Jun 22, 2006)

Hi,

I've been trolling around this post. I've got roughly the same problem as elliott89 and have been dosing Seachem. 

Laith, what would you recomend for dosing Iron? Also, does it make sense to multiply your recomended dosings by 5x if I have a 50 gallon tank?


Thanks,
Kkau1


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

Seachem's Flourish provides Iron and trace elements. If you find you need extra Iron, Seachem's Flourish Iron can also be used.

In tanks with high KH, I've found that TMG (Tropica Master Grow recently renamed to Aquacare Plant Nutrition liquid) works better for me. I have no proof, but my impression is that high carbonates in the water makes the Seachem chelator (gluconate) work less well.

As to dosing in a 50g, remember that any dosing needs to be accompanied with an watchful eye on the plants. You could start out with 5x that dosing and adjust up or down (probably down; remember we're talking about EI dosing here where you slightly overdose to insure you have enough and then do the 50% water changes to reset). Or you you could start with let's say 3x and see how that goes...

And in a 50g you'll see quite quickly why many people eventually switch to powdered chemicals; the cost starts going up rapidly. But if it's within your budget it does provide a simple no mess way to dose.

Just to complicate things more, eklikewhoa, a member on this forum, seems to have had pretty good success with just the standard Seachem recommended dosing (with 50% water changes) on a high light CO2 tank. I still don't understand how: works out to 2.4mg/l of NO3 a week. That's the first time I've heard of a well lit, well planted CO2 tank managing to survive with such low NO3 (and PO4). Now he's moved to a slightly larger tank and dosing dry chemicals and he needs *twice* the recommended EI amounts! 

Just shows that nothing is set in stone in this hobby!


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## elliott89 (Jan 21, 2007)

On day 4 of EI dosing using laiths regime and i have already noticed the tank changing...

The plant growth has gone wild and the stem plants are all touching the surface..the algae appears to be still growing but i assume the algae will subside if this amazing plant growth continues..

I will post a pic of my tank showing these changes tomorrow

Thanks

Elliott


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## John S (Jan 18, 2005)

elliot where did u get that seem less tank looks great and what is the cost of one of those.


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## elliott89 (Jan 21, 2007)

LOL its nothing special its a standard clearseal 24x12x12 with the black rims taken off!!! it cost me £35 is that about $70 in US dollars???

Thanks

Elliott


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## elliott89 (Jan 21, 2007)

There u go..pic after 4 days of EI dosing..check out how much growth ive had


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## elliott89 (Jan 21, 2007)

Hi Guys

I now have more algae than ever!!! should i stop dosing???

Elliott


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

I'm wondering about your actual CO2 levels. How are you ensuring that you're getting enough into the tank?


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