# crash, then fail to redo



## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

after a heater blowout in my 29g as well as an outbreak of disease, it crashed and killed all of the fish. 
so i reset the tank up(tore it apart, got new filter media,and 3 bags of eco complete(2.5 used))
i ordered plants from aquariumplants.com because alot of people said it was good
there were a couple problems getting them but eventually i got them. they were in good conditon, but as expected died off abit, but they didnt stop they kept dying.i had an outbreak of snails and worms(couldnt get a close enough veiw, they were probably planaria) i replanted everything and removed dead leaves(besides anubias, just the vals, swords,and sags) they were still dying but i dont seem to see the worms and it seems like there are less snails
im getting really frustrated. i had watersprite, some sword plant, and 2 anubias nana's and they did great. now it seems like everything is going downhill
29gallon
48 watts t5ho(i have a second spare light that i dont use, but its the same one)
seachem flourish,iron,npk
no co2
plants
dwarf sag(just the roots in the substrate)
vallisneria(crown above substrate)
anubias (on dw,doing somewhat good)
swords(just roots in substrate)

i need to get rid of all the dead plants again
dont know what type the snails are, and i cant get a good enough picture
here are pics kind of embarrasing
























an attepmt to get a snail pic









advice?
i know i need to get rid of the dead plants first, but then what?

ps for the fert schedule theres a thread somewhere for the seachem dosing thing and thats what i dose i was going for a thick background of valls, a nice carpet of dwarf sags, a little bush of anubias, and a nice group of swords on the side


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Johnnyseed27,

A bid more information may help to avoid guesses. 

Do you have any water parameters to share like temperature and hardness.

How long to you run your light?

Please confirm the Seachem products you are using; specifically are you using Flourish Comprehensive or Flourish Trace?


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

10 hours from 6am to 4 pm
Don't know my hardness
Flourish(just flourish regular plain flourish, I think that's comprehensive, online on a picture of it in a tiny print it says comprehensive something )
Nitrogen
Potassium
Phosphorus
Iron

Ps mods, I'm at a relative's house so if there is any confusion about the ip address, it's probably because I'm not at my house


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

i did it again and lost so many plants so i added old plastic plants i used to have. the tank is always at 78


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

here are some pics i took today after replanting yesterday
































i lost pretty much almost all my valls
i lost some sags
and i lost quite a few leaves from the sword


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

Now there looks like a few more leaves are going.
I found a big snail compared to the others. It is orange and has blackish brown dots and isn't cone shaped. Unfortunately the camera doesn't like taking pictures.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Johnnyseed27,

I am guessing that your bulbs are about 6500K? You don't have a lot of plants in there, possibly you are over-fertilizing.

If it were me, I would do a 50% water change to 'reset' the tank. For the next two weeks skip the NPK and just dose the Seachem Flourish per the instructions on the bottle. Don't change anything else.

After 2 weeks let us know how it is going and throw up a pic if possible.


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

I now see a 2nd big one and some other one a different type. So there's at least 2 different types. 
I have the current nova extreme USA fixture thing. I never looked at the k but it's 12 which kinda is high. The other just says flora freshwater and it's pink. Gonna do a 50% change now. Thanks. Hopefully it works out.

Edit
Done with water change


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

Ok the 2 week update
I guess I accidentally killed my bacteria and at the time I wasn't aware or testing. Just adding a tiny bit every day, but I guess it built up and I tested ammonia yesterday and got dark blue(pretty much black) didn't get to do a pwc yesterday, did one today and doing one tommorrow if I have time because of midterms studying. 
Anyway the plants haven't really died off anymore, but they don't seem like they are growing. I have a big outbreak of diatoms. The anubias nana's are hit pretty hard and it's not wiping off for some reason. 
Been dosing just the flourish. 
Okay what I need to do
-change bulbs(im overdue and get 6700k)
-probably gonna get watersprite sooner or later, I was very successful with that.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

I just read this thread and I can't follow what you have been doing. It sounds like you haven't been measuring the amount of fertilizer you have been adding. I'm also not clear on what type of flourish you are using. If you check on the back of your actual bottle (not the web site) you will be able to see if it is just the trace elements or if it is the macros like Nitrogen, Potassium, Phosphorus. Seachem used to make Flourish Comprehensive but I haven't seen it for quite a while. They make the macros in separate bottles now. Their regular Flourish is now just micros (trace minerals). If your fertilizer is ONLY trace minerals you are loosing your plants because you have NO macros. 

To have such high ammonia there has to be a reason. Do you have too many fish, feed too much?... The fertilizer would not have raised your ammonia but would have tested high nitrate. A water change would not have killed your bacteria. Did you treat the water with Prime or something similar. Did you clean your filter and use regular tap water with chlorine or chloramines? That would kill your bacteria. It also is possible that you could have had the high ammonia from all the rotting leaves. Did you leave them in there? Plants will eat up the ammonia. You need some really heavy feeding plants like floaters or watersprite, hornwort - fast growers. You also need to keep up the water changes with such high ammonia or it will kill your fish.


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

I know about cycling and everything I have been measuring
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilizing/45119-seachem-dosing-calculator-chart.html
From that chart with just (all flourish)iron(separate bottle),nitrogen(separate bottle), potassium(separate bottle),phosphorus(separate bottle),and flourish (separate bottle) it's just plain regular and says flourish. Under it it says comprehensive supplement for the planted aquarium and has a picture of a type of anubias

The ammonia because I was adding ammonia everyday, fishless cycling. All of my fish are dead from a while ago partly because of a bad heater. The tank was taken apart, and I'm restarting. So there are no fish, just pure ammonia(ace hardware) when the bacteria died(whatever way, I think I overdosed it once) the ammonia I was adding everyday( and not testing) built up I use stress coat in the 29g, and prime in the 120g. The ammonia level it was at is impossible for fish to live in, but I don't have any.
As of since I got rid of all the dead leaves the 2 or so weeks ago, I have been removing dead ones.

I dosed all of that I mentioned right below the link. But i was told I was possibly overdosing and to do a 50% pwc to reset the tank, and then to dose just flourish. So that's what I've been doing. So I have been dosing just micros then.

I think that's everything.


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## londonloco (Sep 25, 2005)

The "grassy" plant looks like dwarf sag to me. If it is dwarf sag, it will die off from the planting, but new growth will appear if you just give it some time. You can remove the dead leaves, but don't replant or remove any roots. Plants take a little time to get established, replanting only extends that time. 

I'd suggest reading up on dosing regimes (PPS, EI, etc.), pick one, and stick with it. I seems your dosing Flourish Comprehensive, which is just micro nutrients, you need a full routine with NPK also.

I've never used ammonia to cycle, tho many many people do. However, I know there is a specific procedure to follow so as to not over dose ammonia. Google it, follow the instructions. 

Hope this helped.....


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

ok after a while with ferts i have noticed 2 things. 
1) when i dose just flourish(the one described before) the plants dont really grow. but they do not die. not dosing npk doesnt let it grow i guess like you guys told me.
2)the problem is when i try to dose npk the recommended doses for each one the plants die and algae takes even more control than it has already. i tried again but some died. this week im trying just nitrogen dose once enough for a 20 gallon tank. hopefully it works.

i was going to get watersprite but i want to get jungle clear water first to do the potassium permanganate dip. my dad drove me to the pet store yesterday but they didnt have it. i have 2 new bulbs from another light i have that i will change sooner or later.

so my problem is the plants are sending runners and the swords are getting tons of new leaves, they just dont grow. but when i dose npk they die but they need it to grow.like i said before im trying just nitrogen this week just once and enough for a 20 gallon. my vals also had a bit more die off.

here are some pics
FTS








my anubias is actually great looking the way its like a bush kind of like i wanted to have it in the first place.








to show all these leaves that grow but stop growing and havent got any bigger








an example of the ruinners coming but not growing








btw the grassy plant is dwraf sags. thanks for the info. i dont want to do ei or any of that yet though. anyway the ammonia is down to 4-8 ppm. roughly 6 ppm i guess. another 50 % pwc should fix that


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

I was able to get it growing but super slow. Then I just got a huge out break of hair algae, and the tank looks terrible. By now I might just take it down.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

When you are doing a fishless cycle keep the ammonia about 3 ppm. Otherwise the bacteria will turn it into too much nitrite. Over 5 ppm ammonia or nitrite these bacteria do not grow well. 

If your test shows 6 ppm ammonia, I would do a 50% water change and not dose more ammonia until it comes down to about 1 ppm. 
Test also for nitrite, and do whatever water change you need to to keep that low, too. About the middle of the fishless cycle the bacteria that turn ammonia into nitrite are growing great, but the bacteria that turn nitrite into nitrate are just getting going, so there is a build up of nitrite. It can very quickly get off the scale, way too high to grow these bacteria.


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

I don't need help with fishless cycling. That was an accident (way to high of ammonia)I'm not trying to cycle now anymore until I get my plants growing. Today finally lol I'm getting new bulbs (6700k) and some more plants. Probably 3 watersprite, 1-2 more anubias nana's to fill the driftwood, and 1 probably hygrophila corymbosa. And some more flourish (the plain flourish mentioned before). My filter is not running, but I'll get it going again. Clean the plants, trim off anything dead or dying and there we go. 

Ps sorry for super late response


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

So yesterday the light bulbs and flourish was ordered. I skipped the plants, and today I decided to look at a store....they had moneywort and water sprite.yay!!! I took a plant light from another fixture so I have 2 "plant" lights. Instead of a 12,000k and a plant bulb. They may be old, but it's good for the time being until I get the ordered bulbs. (which are 6500k not 6700, but that's what they had for the fixture so yeah) 
I planted the plants and am going to do a large pwc and fill the tank all the way. No filter currently still but that's fine. I'm not cycling. 

I hope the plants grow and don't just die. 
This week will be 
Saturday- 30 gallon dose plain flourish, possibly 20 gallon dose phosphorus, 20 gallon dose potassium, no nitrogen because tap has 10ppm

Wednesday morning-30 gallon dose plain flourish, 30 gallon dose phosphorus, 30 gallon dose potassium, 20 gallon dose nitrogen

Staurday-pwc same as last week dosing

Wednesday- new lights might come, same dosing as last week
Thursday new lights might come

Etc,etc,etc

How does that sound?


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

on the seachem dosing chart(not using right now) on this forum, people are saying its a bit 'lean' im confused because when i tried it with a full tank loaded with plants it ended up just bringing algae and dead plants. on the fertilator a regular dose of some of the nutrients does hardly anything, i cant imagine the ferts im dosing are doing anything then. im confused asnd still dont get it.

anyway i am posting 8 pics. try to tell me what plant deficiencies you see as well as algae types. i will say what i see at the end of all my pics(I will do 2 posts of 4 pics each)

FTS









algae(i know its hard to see clearly)









some watersprite(from yesterday suprisingly it grew already)









algae wall









continued in next post


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

dwarf sags









dwarf sags









moneywort and anubias









swords









there is also this brown stuf everywhere and its not diatoms, but I've been getting it out.

anyway i see either hair or thread algae, fuzz algae, diatoms. probably a dificiency here and there

1)what deficiencies do you see?
2)what algae do you see?
3) what do you recommend i do?

Ps oops posted the same pic 2x


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

Lights just came. But when you touch the fixture the lights flicker

I guess it works.


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

Using the fertilator I made a new dosing schedule. It is not based on the 'beginner' doses, it is based on how much I'm adding in ppm. Since I started after I changed the new bulbs on the tank, and wiped of some algae, that algae has not noticeably grown back  I made alot of moneywort cuttings by cutting under of the growing roots that come out of the stem and cutting off the lower leaves. After I just planted the new stem. The water sprite made a few smaller baby plants.
Since it has only been 2 days I can't guarantee it's working, but only hope because so far it is!

Edit
Here it is
Day 1 50% pwc
Day2 micros
Day3 NP, 2 caps potassium
Day4 micros
Day5 NP, 2 caps potassium
Day6 micros
Day7 0.5 cap NP, full cap Potassium

1 cap nitrogen-----3.49ppm.
1 cap phosphorus----o.24 ppm. 
1 cap potassium-----3.63 ppm. 
1 ml iron-----0.11 ppm.--------not going to use unless I end up needing it. 
1/2 cap Micros---???


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

So far the waterspirte is doing amazing. Dwarf sags haven't budged and are still covered in algae. I want it to grow so fast it's almost invasive to my tank. Lol.Anubias, well too soon to tell since they grow slow. Swords, not growing still, don't understand why I added a root tab in the group of 3 to help. Still have fuzz algae, but not so much thread or hair. Moneywort hasn't grown since I got it, and some still keep uprooting. It's really annoying. I'm just letting a stem float. 

Can anyone please help? Pwc today and dosed half recommended dose. Will not dose tommorrow, 
Monday np and 2 caps k, Tuesday micros, Wednesday is the same as Monday, Thursday micros,Friday same as Monday and I'll see from there. 

Like I said can anyone please help? I've been trying to get this to work for at least 5 months probably over 6


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## jseyfert3 (Apr 9, 2012)

First off, I'm in the process of setting up my first planted tank. Nothing in it, I have no experience, and only know what I've read. But, isn't 48W of light an awful lot if you don't have CO2 or another form of carbon, such as Seachem Excel? I mean, plants need three things, light, food, and carbon to grow, right? And they like 30 ppm CO2, but you can only get a max of about 3ppm from the atmosphere, and you don't even have a filter to aid in getting CO2 in your tank by mixing the water at the surface. Random thought, what do I know?


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

The filter doesn't help with co2 as far as I'm aware, just with oxygen. 
Yesterday I got the filter running again. AC70 with an AC20 motor.

Today I decided to do 2 caps of excel and will do 1/2 cap every other day in addition to the fert schedule I made yesterday.


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

Okay to the new dosing with the exel has gotten a bit of growth out of my dwarf sags, but hardly noticeable. Today for whatever reason I have alot of fuzz algae and hair algae. The moneywort isn't growing up, it's shooting roots everywhere and trying to make small plants. I want it to grow not send all the baby plants. I have hardly any room to plent them. Swords haven't budged.

I still need help, anybody? Like I said I've been trying forever. I want my plants growing before i get my fish. I need them growing so I can start cycling and get my fish. Anybody there?


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

Hello?




Did a pwc




Anyone there?


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

Saturday-pwc 3caps excel, 1/2 cap flourish comp
Sunday-1 cap n, 1 cap p, 2 caps k
Monday-1/4 cap excel,1/2 cap flourish comp
Tuesday-1/4 cap excel,1 cap n,1 cap p,2 caps k
Wednesday-1/4 cap excel,1/2 cap flourish comp
Thursday-1/4 cap excel,1 cap n,1 cap p, 2caps k
Friday 1/4 cap excel,1/2 cap flourish comp

Dosing schedule this week
I think the excel does help quite a bit. I might change this next week to a 1/2 cap excel n and p group and a 1/2 cap flourish comp and 2 caps k grouping alternating. This way excel is dosed when the more likely nutrients to cause algae are dosed. But for now this is the current schedule this week.





 Anyone want to help?


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## Aquaticz (May 22, 2009)

Which nutrients cause algae?


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

Well you know, it's an imbalance between light nutrients and co2, but I heard that nitrogen and phosphorus are real killers.


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## Johnnyseed27 (May 13, 2011)

Posted this on a different forum and got some help, problem solved, I need co2 or lower lighting. 
Thanks for anyone who helped.


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