# ADA Beetle Diffuser Knockoff ...



## John P.

Looks like it didn't take long for this to happen:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rhinox-2000-Jap...5099082QQihZ015QQcategoryZ66794QQcmdZViewItem










I admit, I could be a little bummed if this thing (@ $25) works as well as my ~$95 ADA Beetle! If someone buys one, let me know whether it's a good performer.


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## Mikee

Im planning on buying the Rhinox1000 which is for 20gal and up for 9.99 + 5$ shipping. I too would like to know if its a good performer. I plan to use it for my 29 gal DIY co2 setup. My other choice would be the Co2 diffuser : 3 coils which is said to be Compatible for pressurized Co2 tanks and DIY yeast bottles. It would be alot easier to ship for me since the guy i would be shipping it from lives closer so shipping would come in a day or 2 most likely and the nice thing is i have already ordered something from him once and all went well.


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## lildark185

Not to steal the thread, but...speaking of knockoffs: this looks eeriely similar to the AquaBotanic website. Hmm.


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## turtlehead

lildark185 said:


> Not to steal the thread, but...speaking of knockoffs: this looks eeriely similar to the AquaBotanic website. Hmm.


I THINK they are using the same template.


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## turbomkt

Actually...Aquatic-Store.com is the same owner (Marcus Russo). AquaBotanic is not the same entity and probably just using the same template/software as stated.

As for knock-offs in asia...that's the norm. Most of the countries over there ignore most other nations' copyright laws.


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## kwc1974

I have bought two, the 1000 & the 5000. Have not received them yet, will post when I do.

I bought them thru ebay and used the make offer option
got the 1000 for $7 and the 5000 for $15 + shipping


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## bigstick120

Yes please let us know how they work for you

Also what do you mean by make offer option?


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## kwc1974

The ebay auctions that I bought them off of had a make offer button on them where you can make a lower offer, the seller can accept or decline.
maybe he stopped doing that.


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## bigstick120

Any word on how its working out for ya?


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## chiahead

I am currently using 2 rhinox 1000's. They are awesome. Nice small bubbles and even bubbling thru the disc. Only issue is that it seems like the suction cup is on the wrong side. Maybe its just where and how I put it in.


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## bigstick120

Thanks Chiahead, what size tanks are you running the 1000's on?


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## turbomkt

Chiahead,
Can you post a pic so we see how you have them installed? It would also be able to show the bubbles


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## chiahead

I have one installed on a 20 long and the other on a 24gal nano cube. Will try to get the pic up later. Maybe I should clean them as its been weeks since I have cleaned them and they are a bit dirty at the moment.


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## bigstick120

Yes a photo would be great, do you thing the 1000 would be enough for a 29? I guess I would need a 2000 or 5000 for a 55?


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## chiahead

I personally think this diffuser could work up to a 55 gallon. I dont see why you need a larger one anyways as the co2 will just come out faster when you push higher pressure through it.


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## AaronT

I think the idea of the larger one is to keep the pressure lower. Too much pressure could break the glass.


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## John N.

chiahead said:


> I personally think this diffuser could work up to a 55 gallon. I dont see why you need a larger one anyways as the co2 will just come out faster when you push higher pressure through it.


I wondered the same thing a while back, and it occurred to me as I watched and compared two diffusers at work, one larger and one smaller.

As you increase the bubble count and pressure on the smaller one, the gas comes out in larger bubbles as the surface area of the disk is only so big. As the bubbles come out faster, the bubbles collide with each other forming one large bubble. With the bigger diffuser/disk you have more surface area to pump more bubbles and still retain the smaller desired "micro" type bubbles.

So it's to the advantage of any CO2 system to have a larger disk so that more micro bubbles can released. Only disadvantage of a large model is the size of the diffuser can be distracting if use in a smaller tank

In my opinion, the fancy ADA diffusers work and look just as good as any other glass difusser, and the glass difussers can produce the same type of bubbles from a limewood diffuser too, but lack the obvious glass component.

-John N.


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## chiahead

sorry for the long delay. Been super busy and I needed to clean it before I took the picture.

Well here it is


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## John P.

They look like small bubbles to me!


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## turbomkt

I agree they look small. As for whether or not the suction up is on the wrong side...can you post a picture of the other side or however it looks wrong to you?


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## chiahead

its not wrong on this side of the tank but the design does not allow to you to put it on the right side without starring at the tubing first.


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## John N.

Ah I know what you mean Chiahead. 

Instead of using the suction cup it came with and the protruding part, you could always purchase a separate airline tubing suction cup and use it to hold the stem side against the glass wall.

What size diameter would you say the ceramic disc is? Quarter, or nickle sized?

-John N.


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## chiahead

I think its 1/2 inch. The 2000 is 1 inch and the 5000 is 2 inches.


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## Ben Belton

Ugh... you people drive me nuts... now I'm going to have to spend some money. 

Did you look at his eBay store? They have some really nice stuff. Most plant web pages have a couple things, but he has everything you could want. Multiple choices of different items. I have recently become disillusioned with my inline CO2 reactor adn wanted to try a large diffuser for my 75. I think the 5000 may be it.

WOW... stainless Riccia mesh. Where is that Visa card?

Thanks for the posts everyone 

Ben


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## LindaC

Can you post the site where they sell these diffusors?

Thanks!
Linda

Never mind, I found it!


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## John P.

They're on eBay.

I'm glad my ADA Beetle diffuser from adgshop.com has the CO2 inlet tube on the right corner! 

Yours is different fron the one pictured ...

Yours:









The picture on eBay:









Strange.


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## Ben Belton

Here is a LINK to his eBay store.

I think he might have a web page too. He is an APC sponsor.


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## Robert Hudson

I thought it was supposed to have 2 suction cups so that you could put the diffusor right in a corner of a tank with one suction cup on each side of the corner, otherwise what makes it different than any other glass diffusor?


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## John N.

I agree good observation Robert.N ow that I think if it that I believe that's how it's suppose to be inserted in the aquarium: in the corner, thereby hiding the CO2 line between the corner edges. 

The only caveat of that would be: is it possible to force the CO2 line to remain directly flush against the corner edges to hide it?

-John N.


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## Robert Hudson

Well, thats what I thought. When I was looking at Jeffs products, that is the one that stood out to me as the most unique. The fact that it fits into a corner I thought was pretty cool. I can get all of these from China just like the two that I already have. There is at least a dozen different ones. All they are is just different shapes and sizes... like the ones that have the coils inside that leed up to the bowl and ceramic disk, all of those. I notice the rhino comes in different sizes and some include only one suction cup while others have two. I would ask for the extra suction cup, otherwise how is it different from the one they sell for 3 dollars?

I am going to have to look at my sources I guess. I don't see the point in carrying 12 different models of glass diffusors when they all work the same, but if that is what people want I guess I will look into it too.


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## pennjones

I just bought the rhinox 1000 from this seller and it's waiting for me at my parent's house. opefully I'll be able to get it this weekend and up and running by Monday.


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## IUnknown

> [The fact that it fits into a corner I thought was pretty cool./QUOTE]
> 
> It's more for having two options. You put the suction cup on the left nipple and you can have it on the left side of your tank with the tubing and the extra nipple in the background, and vice versa. They wouldn't do much in the corner.


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## pennjones

I hate to have to correct you, but this is from the AGA Shop Website: 

"Designed after the African stag-beetle for is unique shape, the Pollen Glass Beetle diffuser sits conveniently on an inside corner of the aquarium."

I think that if you put it on the corner of the tank, the tubing would be hidden even more, because it would run right up the seam of the tank.


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## IUnknown

If you look through ADA galleries you will see what I'm talking about. I've never seen them in the corner, but maybe that is how they market them.


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## ianiwane

I've seen them put in the corner of a tank. I remember seeing it at aquaforest like that. Remember IUnknown, Marc took those pictures a while back. Things could have changed.


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## John P.

I put my Beetle in the corner.


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## Marc

ianiwane said:


> I've seen them put in the corner of a tank. I remember seeing it at aquaforest like that. Remember IUnknown, Marc took those pictures a while back. Things could have changed.


Dang my pictures are famous!


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## John P.

I also have always found it interesting that Amano puts his midway in the tank. The latest catalog (thanks [email protected]) also mentions that this is the best place for the diffuser. Seems to me it'd be best as far down as possible.


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## turbomkt

I've got to think that the pressure differential between half way and the bottom is significant. Due to lower relative pressure, bubbles that are small at the bottom of the tank will grow as they rise. Keeping the diffuser part way up the tank will result in smaller overall bubbles.

This is my theory based on Boyles law and too many years scuba diving.


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## Marc

In smaller tanks that Amano sets up, i noticed that the diffusers were on the opposite side of the water return.

In longer and larger tanks, they are on the same side as the return.

I think in smaller tanks, the water current is strong enough to blow the co2 bubbles around. But in larger longer tanks, the co2 bubbles are taken with the water current.

I think when it comes down to it, you place the diffuser where the bubbles will be blown around the tank.


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## dennis

Also something to think about, the bigger tank's stands only have openings on one side while smaller tanks usually sit on a platform. All the small tanks at NA are run off one CO2 tank. Maybe we are reading a little to much into things. I woudl agree with Mike about bubble size, though I do not know if the depths we deal with matter. I'm not familiar enough with Boyle's law to hazard a guess. 

On the other hand, Marc hit the nail on the head, IMO. Place the diffuser where it get the CO2 mist the best circulation.


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## Ben Belton

Marc said:


> I think when it comes down to it, you place the diffuser where the bubbles will be blown around the tank.


I think this is the key. The longer it takes the bubbles to swim around before they hit the surface and bust, the more CO2 gets in the water.

Ben


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## dennis

I would agree (obviously, since I already did). Though I wonder.... I think Tom would have said, and I am inclined to agree, that it is not so much about getting CO2 dissolved in the water as it is about getting the microbubbles of CO2 into contact directly with the plant's surfaces.

But to re-open a can of worms, this assumes that the bubbles are still CO2 my the time they reach the plant and have not changed to O2 or N2 through "diffusion". I would really love to know the answer to that old debate.

Also, on a seperate note but one on topic; I ordered the Rhinox 2000 a couple days ago and also the bubble counter/check valve. The transaction was smooth, my questions were answered in a couple hours and the goods were shipped within 24hrs. Good service so far. I'll try to report on the quality of the goods once I start using them. 

Glad I saw this thread as I was standing here with my old glasss diffuser in 3 pieces. Not to self, do not hold diffuser in hand while trying to seperate tubing from check valve. It does not take much to crush the diffuser in your hand;( Fortunately for my sanity, it was the not so expensive AB difusser and not the expensive ADA one!


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## Robert Hudson

> would agree (obviously, since I already did). Though I wonder.... I think Tom would have said, and I am inclined to agree, that it is not so much about getting CO2 dissolved in the water as it is about getting the microbubbles of CO2 into contact directly with the plant's surfaces.


And thats the part that always makes me laugh, because no matter what I do, the bubbles from any diffusor I have used go no where except straight up to the water surface. I have it in the path of a power head, the path of a filter out flow, doesn't matter, I have never gotten it to spray out to any significant distance and the bubbles do not come in contact with the plant leaves except in a very small area. But like Dennis said, an old can of worms...

I still do not get why or what the attraction is to buy a straight out knock off copy of an ADA diffusor if you are not putting it in the corner. You are paying two or three times the price for an extra suction cup that you may or may not use instead of another glass diffusor for a fraction of the price? Is that it? Do the bubbles come out any smaller? Does the C02 get dissolved any faster? Is the glass better quality? There must be something? Again, I am not saying this to attack the quote "seller", because the quote "seller" also sells other glass diffusors for a fraction of the price. I will sell anything that anyone wants to buy, but this just sounds like hooey.



> with my old glasss diffuser in 3 pieces. Not to self, do not hold diffuser in hand while trying to seperate tubing from check valve. It does not take much to crush the diffuser in your hand;( Fortunately for my sanity, it was the not so expensive AB difusser and not the expensive ADA one!


Thats the problem with glass... it breaks fairly easily. I have broken several myself. But my AB diffusor is much cheaper than even a ADA beetle knock off, so if you have an accident it hurts much less.


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## chiahead

I have found that some diffusers produce smaller bubbles than others. Not sure why. Maybe the ceramic disc is different. Most diffusers are made cheaply, meanig the glass is thin and break very easy. The knock off's are a little thicker while the ADA ones are nice and thick. It would take much more to break the ADA one. The thicker glass is why its more $$$, also the build of it is higher too.


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## dennis

Different diffusers definatley produce different bubbles. When I broke my mid size AB diffuser the other day, I threw in the nano diffuser, also from AB. Holly cow was there a difference. The nano produced tiny, mistlike bubbles while the larger version produced some tiny ones but most were a bit bigger than I felt would be useful. The tiny bubbles get blown around a lot more than the larger ones and there isa definate improvement in the amount microbubbles that make it to the leaf surfaces.


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## ianiwane

John P. said:


> I also have always found it interesting that Amano puts his midway in the tank. The latest catalog (thanks [email protected]) also mentions that this is the best place for the diffuser. Seems to me it'd be best as far down as possible.


I've read the reason why he does that is because of the flow. There is better downward flow from the filter output midway down the tank.


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## ianiwane

Robert Hudson said:


> And thats the part that always makes me laugh, because no matter what I do, the bubbles from any diffusor I have used go no where except straight up to the water surface. I have it in the path of a power head, the path of a filter out flow, doesn't matter, I have never gotten it to spray out to any significant distance and the bubbles do not come in contact with the plant leaves except in a very small area. But like Dennis said, an old can of worms...
> 
> I still do not get why or what the attraction is to buy a straight out knock off copy of an ADA diffusor if you are not putting it in the corner. You are paying two or three times the price for an extra suction cup that you may or may not use instead of another glass diffusor for a fraction of the price? Is that it? Do the bubbles come out any smaller? Does the C02 get dissolved any faster? Is the glass better quality? There must be something? Again, I am not saying this to attack the quote "seller", because the quote "seller" also sells other glass diffusors for a fraction of the price. I will sell anything that anyone wants to buy, but this just sounds like hooey.
> 
> Thats the problem with glass... it breaks fairly easily. I have broken several myself. But my AB diffusor is much cheaper than even a ADA beetle knock off, so if you have an accident it hurts much less.


Why do you always turn things into a buy my stuff thread. Your diffusors are not that much cheaper than his. The rhinox 1000 he sells for 10 dollars is about the same diameter as your mighty mini that you sell for 11.99. The rhinox 2000 (20.00) is much like your Mighty Momato (14.99). You have nothing that is up to the diameter of the rhinox 5000 so you can really compare prices to it. How is this 2 to 3 times (as you said earlier) more expensive that what you are selling. Plus estheticly they are much more pleasing on the eye. I would pay extra just for that.


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## John P.

ianiwane said:


> Why do you always turn things into a buy my stuff thread.


I have to say ... that has been my thought, too. One of the things I like about the Senske's is that they don't do this type of thing. I would rather, and did, buy a Beetle because I wanted the ADA product. Groveling is just tacky.

Robert, this is the perception of the buying public ... please consider it constructive criticism and not an affront.


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## dstephens

I purchased both the 1000 and the 5000 diffusers last month. As has been observed by others here, the communication was prompt, the price competitve and the shipping terms are variable based on how fast you want it and what you are willing to pay. His offering makes it possible to get all of the hardware pieces you need for your CO2 system at one site. I have been using an in-line CO2 reactor that I bought from Rex about 4 months ago. It has been affective but it creates other issues in my overall plumbing strategy that I had not considered. Thus, I decided to give the diffuser a try. I use the 5000 on a 90 gallon planted and the 1000 on a 6 gallon nano. Both are very effective. I have just as much saturation with the diffuser as I did with the in-line reactor, my evidence being the intensity of pearling. The argument about where to place the diffuser does not make much sense to me. It seems to me that you would want the diffuser in a position to provide as much exposure as possible to your entire tank. 

Once again, a productive discussion regarding hobbyist preference and experience has to be high-jacked as a competitve sales forum. Yes, there is a wide diversity of preference out there and if the market demand drives the need for 15 different diffusers then so be it. Why is that so frustrating?


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## pennjones

I put my rhinox 1000 on my tank last night before I went to bed, and this morning I have thousands of tiny bubbles! Even with DIY Co2, this diffuser seems to do very well producing tiny bubbles. Hopefully if i can get my piece of junk camera to work right I can get a picture of it up and running today! Overall, I would say for the quality and effectiveness, this piece is worth the $15 I spent for it!


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## kwc1974

I just got my rhinox 5000 and installed it in my 55g tank
super tiny bubbles...not even bubbles more of a mist. More CO2 is making its way down the lenght of the tank than straight up and out. More than worth the money I spent.

The glass is thick and construction is solid. I have had many glass diffusers that felt like they would break just trying to get the tubing on (some of them did). 

The seller was extreamly easy to communicate with. Not only would I buy from him again, I am planning to purchace more already.


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## Robert Hudson

> Why do you always turn things into a buy my stuff thread. Your diffusors are not that much cheaper than his.


I thought I made it pretty clear, but evidently I did not. That is not my intention at all. He sells what 10 or 20 different glass diffusors, several of which are much cheaper that the Rhino, and cheaper than the one I sell. So it is not about me. What I am asking is why buy the Rhino from him instead of the one he sells for four dollars? Or the one with the coils inside, or any of the other ones? Forget about the one I sell, between all the different ones he sells, why this one? Forget about any other glass diffusor on this earth, ADA, Boyu, AB... whatever, just concentrate on all the different models he sells. It is not unbreakable glass. That is ridiculous.



> Once again, a productive discussion regarding hobbyist preference and experience has to be high-jacked as a competitve sales forum. Yes, there is a wide diversity of preference out there and if the market demand drives the need for 15 different diffusers then so be it. Why is that so frustrating?


I am sorry to have once again hurt your sensitive feelings. I am not trying to hijack anything. I simply want to understand why people are buying it. I can buy the exact same diffusor from the exact same company in China that he is buying it from. Is it really worth it, or is this just something that currently has the passing interest of people. That is what I am trying to find out.

So far I have heard it is solidy built, thick glass, and produces smoke like, mist like bubbles. OK, fine. Assuming this is true, then fine, good valid points, but that is not why you people bought it in the first place because you had no way of knowing that when you bought it. I would just like to know what peoples reasons were for buying it. Is that unreasonable question?



> have found that some diffusers produce smaller bubbles than others. Not sure why. Maybe the ceramic disc is different. Most diffusers are made cheaply, meanig the glass is thin and break very easy. The knock off's are a little thicker while the ADA ones are nice and thick. It would take much more to break the ADA one. The thicker glass is why its more $$$, also the build of it is higher too.


See, now this is a informative, thought provoking answer that engages my conversation without getting defensive and accusing me of going down some path of self glorification.



> How is this 2 to 3 times (as you said earlier) more expensive that what you are selling


Is that what I said? I really don't think so, but what I was talking about was his other diffusors, not mine. The cheapest one I saw that he has is four dollars. The most expensive one is 30 something. I do not think there is much difference between the four dollar one and the 30 dollar one other than shape and perhaps one is bigger around than the other one. Why is this such a bad thing to talk about? If it will make you happy I will take the diffusors off my WEB site so I can voice my opinion.


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## ianiwane

Robert Hudson said:


> Thats the problem with glass... it breaks fairly easily. I have broken several myself. But my AB diffusor is much cheaper than even a ADA beetle knock off, so if you have an accident it hurts much less.


lol, and this means nothing. With you its always about self promotion.


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## John N.

*Back to Topic*

Alright folks, let's not lose focus of this topic. I hear what everyone is saying, and regarding the topic I think Robert Hudson brings up a great point. What makes all the different glass diffusers stand out from each other?

All the difference varieties of glass diffusers seem to produce variable types of bubbles in my experience, even if they are the same model.

-John N.


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## ianiwane

As I stated earlier. I have yet to see a diffuser (besides the ADA) that has as large of a diameter as the rhinox 5000. Larger ceramic disc equals more bubbles and better diffusion. It can be used on larger tanks.


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## John P.

I think aesthetics comprise a big draw with ADA gear ... that's why I just dropped a lot of coin on a full ADA setup. The rimless tank, for example. Clean stuff. I would certainly have _considered_ a cheaper tank if one existed. That said, with the ADA line I'm pretty confident that I bought a great product, and I credit Jeff Senske with bringing this stuff to the U.S. market while showing us examples of the product in use.

The knockoff Beetle probably appeals to those who desire the ADA line ... I imagine people bought these hoping that form wasn't leaps ahead of function.


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## Robert Hudson

> lol, and this means nothing. With you its always about self promotion.


Oh thats a real constructive comment. That is the best you can do to engage me in this conversation? Take a little poke at me. I am trying real hard to keep this conversation based on logic. Pardon me for intruding in the lovefest going on here. Don't bother answering anything I brought up, just make little childish comments.

There is another knock off of the Beetle from Aquarium Landscapes, if I remember correctly. Under the new ownership and the new WEB site, the product is still available.



> The knockoff Beetle probably appeals to those who desire the ADA line ... I imagine people bought these hoping that form wasn't leaps ahead of function.


So everyone here in this thread who bought one of these things bought it because it is the next best thing to the ADA Beetle, not because it is a better deal or better quality than anything else that is out there. Not because of the super duper glass that doesn't break or the magical smoke like bubbles. This actually makes sense to me. Cuts thru all the BS.


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## kwc1974

> So far I have heard it is solidy built, thick glass, and produces smoke like, mist like bubbles. OK, fine. Assuming this is true, then fine, good valid points, but that is not why you people bought it in the first place because you had no way of knowing that when you bought it. I would just like to know what peoples reasons were for buying it. Is that unreasonable question?


I hate to give this a simplistic answer, but...
Is the fact that the construction is solid a reason I bought it....no
Is the fact that the diffusion produces very fine mist like bubbles a reason I bought it....no

In fact there is no other physical determining factor for my purchase. The clue I had as to what it was and how it would function was a pic posted in the auction. So a guess the asthetics was the main reason, with the hope of performance be a secondary.

I have bought many glass diffusers and some plastic ones, for the glass asthetics was always the primary reason. My purchases have ranged to the dirt cheap knock-offs to the expensive name brands. I have been disappointed many times by a diffuser with a promise of a high diffusion rate only to hook it up to my CO2 and it look no better than a air stone. As my collection of ineffective diffusers grows I am always on the lookout for a replacement to get the performance I want.

Although my initial judgement of the 5000 is that this is the diffuser I have been promised since day one (the equipment geek in me will probably always bee on the lookout for a better piece of glass.

With my LFS not interested in actively selling glass diffusers, with the exception of ADG, my search for a quality diffuser with a good diffusion rate has been a hit or miss situation for years long before ADA was available in the US. Is my approach costly, yes my wife reminds me al the time, but I can't exactly test drive a diffuser to find out I don't like it.

Like I said, sorry to break it down to a such a simple answer as it looks good, but when all I have is a picture of a glass diffuser, then what other basis can the consumer go by?


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## John P.

Good points. Any no-name diffuser purchased from *any* online store is a small leap of faith.


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## John N.

*thoughts on Glass Diffuser selection*

I've seen the ADA beetles in action, and to me they produce the same type of bubbles as the knockoff derivatives. In terms of production, the glass diffusers will produce a foggy like mist for the first week. Thereafter, the mist action degrades as the diffuser gets dirty or natural slime builds up, and ultimately requires cleaning. I'm sure the ADA types actually do the same, and require regular cleaning as the others. There's no way to avoid this natural dirt and slime buildup. 

*So why buy ADA glass diffusers?* From the tactile touch, they consist of a stronger glass and probably won't break as easily. But they will break nonetheless if handled improperly. Here I believe people purchase these diffusers just for the brand, as they appear to function at the same level as the other cheaper types. Unless the ceramic disk is produce uniformly in each product, then I'm guessing there's the same variability in bubble size from ADA beetle to beetle. If there isn't variability, principle one applies: you're going to have to clean it in a week or two anyways to get receive optimum utility. 

*So why purchase the knock offs?* They are providing the same function minus the certain durability in glass. Three to four extra glass diffusers for the same cost as one ADA diffuser is a huge plus. If you break one you have back ups. If one requires cleaning service, you can swap it out with a clean one. If one doesn't produce a fine mist, you can swap it out and clean it until it does.

*Why purchase a glass diffuser at all?* Mainly it's the looks that make us want to purchase it. Everyone likes the look of glass, no matter what it's for. Also, the ease of attaching it to a CO2 line and placing it into the tank outweighs building or purchasing a reactor, and installing it inline with a canister filter or powerhead. Furthermore, it's reported that the efficiency is similar if not better than using a reactor method to dissolve CO2. The reactor verses Glass diffuser debate will always rage on, and is another can of worms.

*In general, I think 3 things determine the purchase of diffusers.*

1) Aesthetics
2) Ceramic disk size
3) Price
4) Glass durability
5) Function (again, from what I've seen all diffusers, even ADA are variable in bubble size production)

-John N.


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## ianiwane

Robert Hudson said:


> Oh thats a real constructive comment. That is the best you can do to engage me in this conversation? Take a little poke at me. I am trying real hard to keep this conversation based on logic. Pardon me for intruding in the lovefest going on here. Don't bother answering anything I brought up, just make little childish comments.
> 
> There is another knock off of the Beetle from Aquarium Landscapes, if I remember correctly. Under the new ownership and the new WEB site, the product is still available.
> 
> So everyone here in this thread who bought one of these things bought it because it is the next best thing to the ADA Beetle, not because it is a better deal or better quality than anything else that is out there. Not because of the super duper glass that doesn't break or the magical smoke like bubbles. This actually makes sense to me. Cuts thru all the BS.


I guess you didn't bother reading any of my other posts, about the aesthetics and ceramic disk size. The reason why people have a problem with you is because you converse as if you are smarter than everyone else. You have a condensending way about your writing that may upset people, myself included. You can talk this way to people who may not stand up for themselves, however I am not one of them. Its time to get over yourself and your narcissistic personality.


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## Ben Belton

John N. said:


> *In general, I think 3 things determine the purchase of diffusers.*
> 
> 1) Aesthetics
> 2) Ceramic disk size
> 3) Price
> 4) Glass durability
> 5) Function (again, from what I've seen all diffusers, even ADA are variable in bubble size production)
> 
> -John N.


Wait.... that's 5 reasons. 

And I'll add....

6)Vendor has a good friendly reliable reputation.

Ben


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## John N.

Haha, oops! You're right. Funny catch Ben, 5 reasons it is. 

Your Reason #6 is a legitimate reason as well. That's a good one.

-John N.


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## Robert Hudson

Thats wonderful KWC. Honest, simple, normal conversation. Your continual qwest gives me the impression that they all more or less work the same. I still really like the Beetle design that allows it to fit in a corner. I think that is very cool. I am just surprised that is not the reason people are buying it.



> I guess you didn't bother reading any of my other posts, about the aesthetics and ceramic disk size. The reason why people have a problem with you is because you converse as if you are smarter than everyone else. You have a condensending way about your writing that may upset people, myself included. You can talk this way to people who may not stand up for themselves, however I am not one of them. Its time to get over yourself and your narcissistic personality.


What you see as being condensending is my irration of you always making this personal. You can not form an intelligent thought without attacking me. That is your problem. You want to goat me into a fight. Yell and cry and stomp your feet all you want. Have fun. I will not get sucked into it any more. Not from you or anyone else.

I am trying to talk about the design of a diffusor, and all you want to continue to do make it about me. Is this an open conversation or just one big advertisement?


----------



## Gomer

Ace Glass Catalog 2005 - PDF

hmm....


----------



## AaronT

Gomer said:


> Ace Glass Catalog 2005 - PDF
> 
> hmm....


Yes, hmmm...indeed.  Good find Tony.



John N. said:


> Haha, oops! You're right. Funny catch Ben, 5 reasons it is.


1,2,5...3 sir...3.


----------



## Gomer

> Yes, hmmm...indeed. Good find Tony.


I actually used these in my lab (the course fritted ones) and can get them inhouse or also through www.fishersci.com. Don't be fooled. I'll be money on it that ADA and other diffusers and scientific glassware have the same sources for their diffusers/frits. Just chop the stem and add suction cup nipples and it is now an "aquarium CO2 diffuser".


----------



## Robert Hudson

> So why buy ADA glass diffusers? From the tactile touch, they consist of a stronger glass and probably won't break as easily. But they will break nonetheless if handled improperly


I wonder how true that really is. I would love to get an ADA diffusor and run some tests on it to see if the glass really is any more durable than the Chinese knockoffs.

That is interesting Tony. Now you could get into brands of glass such as the Pyrex they list


----------



## Marc

Gomer said:


> I actually used these in my lab (the course fritted ones) and can get them inhouse or also through www.fishersci.com. Don't be fooled. I'll be money on it that ADA and other diffusers and scientific glassware have the same sources for their diffusers/frits. Just chop the stem and add suction cup nipples and it is now an "aquarium CO2 diffuser".


My friend works at a lab also and he actually ordered my one of those "diffusers". They don't work very well- the bubbles leak between the glass and the disc. Of course its probably not the same brand as the ones you linked, but its worth a try. Plus lab glass equipment aren't cheap. They cost more than the knockoffs and made for lab applications and not aquariums.


----------



## shewey

I wonder how long it will be before there are lily pipe knockoffs...or are they out there already?

Cheers,
Mark


----------



## bigstick120

shewey said:


> I wonder how long it will be before there are lily pipe knockoffs...or are they out there already?
> 
> Cheers,
> Mark


There are some folks out there that can get a glass blower to make them a set, it is about 80.00 or so


----------



## IUnknown

I just got a new shipment in, if anyone is interested.

Re: Greg's version of Lily Pipe outflow - The Planted Tank Forum


----------



## aquatic-store.com

We use the same software as Robert does but ours is an upgraded version. On that site we do use the same template as they do as it is a standard template with modifications We also have over 70 websites in existance such as 
Faucet Lights
Water Testers Monitors Controllers Aquarium Soil
Insect Kits, Butterfly Pavilion, Ant Farms and more
Educational Toys and gifts!!!
as you can see alot of the websites can look similar if they are based off of the same template

Thanks
Marc
etc


----------



## heineken357

you guys think the rhinox 2000 would be good for my 10gal tank or should i get the 1000 rhinox, O and i have pressurized co2.


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## LindaC

I just received the Rhinox 2000 and added it to my 29 gallon tank last night but I must say that I was not at all impressed with the amount of CO2 that I seemed to be getting out of it, I'm wondering if I am doing something wrong.

I have been using the Hagen Ladder with great affect but wanted to try the glass diffusor to get the mist but the mist wasn't even coming out of the whole ceramic disk, it was only coming out on the side. When I turned up my needle valve, nothing happened, I got the same bubble count. I did not try turning up the pressure and I'm wondering if that would make a difference. I ended up putting the Hagen Ladder back on because I was getting a good flow of CO2 with the ladder. When I put the ladder back on, the CO2 blasted out, so I had it turned up pretty high. Am I doing something wrong?


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## John N.

Linda, I not sure why turing up the needle valve didn't give you an increase bubble count. Be sure to have your CO2 cylinder opened all the way. 

Sometimes these glass diffusers need a sudden burst of gas to dislodge any dust or debris stuck in the fine ceramic pores. Once the flow of bubbles gets going, you can begin reduce the bubble count.

If this doesn't work and you still get bubbles escaping from only one spot on the disk, then it's likely that you have a "defective" diffuser. 

-John N.


----------



## LindaC

Thank you, I'll check to make sure the CO2 cylinder is open all the way. Yes, I would turn the needle valve so try and get a stronger stream of CO2 going into the diffusor but it wouldn't seem to go any higher, the bubble count was remaining at 1 bubble a second but then when I put the ladder back on, the bubbles were going like crazy. So turning up the pressure isn't a good idea then? I didn't think it was myself but thought I should ask.


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## John N.

You need extra pressure to run the glass diffuser. So it makes sense that you see lots of bubbles on your ladder as compared to having it on the diffuser.

When opening your needle valve you should see an increase amount of bubbles in both your ladder and glass diffuser. Opening your CO2 cylinder completely will probably fix this needle valve constant bubble rate despite you opening it more.

By turning up the pressure I'm assuming you mean either opening your needle valve for more bubbles, and/or increasing your working pressure (right gauge) to 10-30 psi. Either case increasing the pressure is a good idea to get the glass diffuser to work.

-John N.


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## bigstick120

I just orderd 2, 2000 so I'll see how they do. I orderd a new one b/c the other on I had did the same as described above, one half bubbles, I figured that it is just plugged up or not all the efficent. Hope the same thing dosent happen to this one


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## @[email protected]

Not sure about the knockoff... but my ADA beetle diffuser still produces mist-like bubbles after more than 1 month of use without cleaning.


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## Robert Hudson

> just orderd 2, 2000 so I'll see how they do. I orderd a new one b/c the other on I had did the same as described above, one half bubbles, I figured that it is just plugged up or not all the efficent. Hope the same thing dosent happen to this one


This is pretty much what I have found with every diffusor I have ever tried, and goes back to my belief that they are all basically the same. The size of the bubbles become irradic, and it seems to take more and more pressure to make them work. I am actually inventing soemthing for my own use to help make these diffusors more effective. When I use them, the majority of the bubbles go up to the water surface. I am having a plastics guy make me a little 3" box abount an inch deep with a suction cup on one side. I mount this on the aquaruim directly above the diffusor just under the water surface. It catches the C02 bubbles just before they hit the water surface and holds them until they get pushed out. This keeps the C02 bubbles in contact with the water longer before they disapate.



> We use the same software as Robert does but ours is an upgraded version. On that site we do use the same template as they do as it is a standard template with modifications We also have over 70 websites in existance such as


Every once in a while I get a crazy email from someone about this. I just laugh and tell people that I don't use the same colors as Marc, and mine is not full of spelling and grammatical errors! :violin:  You know you are my buddy Marc! I actually got my first version of shop factory about a year before Marc ever went online.  Now I am setting up a whole different one from the same company that aquariumplants.com uses. If I can figure out what to do about the shipping charges.


----------



## Marc

Robert Hudson said:


> This is pretty much what I have found with every diffusor I have ever tried, and goes back to my belief that they are all basically the same. The size of the bubbles become irradic, and it seems to take more and more pressure to make them work. I am actually inventing soemthing for my own use to help make these diffusors more effective. When I use them, the majority of the bubbles go up to the water surface. I am having a plastics guy make me a little 3" box abount an inch deep with a suction cup on one side. I mount this on the aquaruim directly above the diffusor just under the water surface. It catches the C02 bubbles just before they hit the water surface and holds them until they get pushed out. This keeps the C02 bubbles in contact with the water longer before they disapate.


Its a great idea and I think most people have thought about ways to keep the co2 in contact with the water longer- but aesthetically speaking- having something like that in the tank would look ugly. Co2 is cheap and using a glass diffuser- will help keep things looking clean and clear.

I have all sorts of diffusers- even one of the old eheims- After a while they do start to spit out larger and larger bubbles- but all you have to do is clean them with bleach.

Regarding the pressure- I think its a great thing they are requiring more and more pressure- mainly because I hope the increase in pressure means smaller bubbles!



Robert Hudson said:


> Every once in a while I get a crazy email from someone about this. I just laugh and tell people that I don't use the same colors as Marc, and mine is not full of spelling and grammatical errors! :violin:  You know you are my buddy Marc! I actually got my first version of shop factory about a year before Marc ever went online.  Now I am setting up a whole different one from the same company that aquariumplants.com uses. If I can figure out what to do about the shipping charges.


This site has a great "spell check" function.


----------



## Robert Hudson

> Its a great idea and I think most people have thought about ways to keep the co2 in contact with the water longer- but aesthetically speaking- having something like that in the tank would look ugly. Co2 is cheap and using a glass diffuser- will help keep things looking clean and clear.


WEll perhaps, but I am going to experiment with it anyway. I think most people put the diffusor toward the back of the tank out of sight anyway, and having a clear plastic small cup or box shaped thing near the water surface I do not think would be that noticeable.

Here is what led me to this point. I have a 20 gallon long aquarium. It has a three inch deep substrate, leaving only about 8 inches from the substrate to the water surface. I have one of my mini glass diffusors in there. I have the diffusor pretty close to the substrate, but with only 8 inches to work with, all the gas goes to the water surface. The higher the pressure from the C02 tank, or the faster the bubble rate, the larger the bubbles from the diffusor, not smaller. I can not seem to get a good level of C02 in this tank. If I crank it up it just gets degassed or I get tons of algae within a week from an excessive level of C02. If I keep the pressure low for those smoke like bubbles, I can never get any pearling or any significant signs of new growth.

So, I took a small cardboard box and stuck a suction cup through a hole in the box and put this above the diffusor. So far it has made a significant difference.



> This site has a great "spell check" function.


My fingers are just to fat, I can't hit the right keys!


----------



## LindaC

Then it's actually a good idea to turn up the pressure to push the CO2 through these glass difussors? I still have not put my Rhinox 2000 back on my tank yet, it's taken me a long time to finally get my CO2 flowing at a rate so I am not batteling algea and now I'm afraid if I put this diffusor on for any length of time with the bubbles coming out of a small area, the algea will come back again.

Maybe I'll put it back on over the weekend while I am there to watch and test the CO2. Hopefully if I turn the pressure up more, it will push it through the disk so it flows out through the whole surface and not just along the side.

Question, should I put a check valve on the tubing above this diffusor or does is the check valve on the bubble counter sufficient?


----------



## John N.

LindaC said:


> Question, should I put a check valve on the tubing above this diffusor or does is the check valve on the bubble counter sufficient?


Best to have the check valve closest to prevent the siphon action. So place it near the diffuser. 

-John N.


----------



## Steven_Chong

I did some tank adjusting. I thought this sounded interesting, so I played with the lily out-flow pipe and the Rhinox 2000 until I got an interesting result:

I put the rhinox in the middle of the tank, but really close to the front glass. I moved the lily pipe to the back and aimed it straight at the Rhinox. Ker-plow!! I now have CO2 bubbles blasting all over the place. The lily pipe blows them into the front glass of the aquarium. The bubbles get blown with so much force that they fly both up, down, and every other direction.

The result? My foreground plants (HC and tenellus which are closest to the front glass) are now literally covered with CO2 bubbles-- the CO2 bubbles kind of stick to the surface of the plants. I'll let you guys know if this actually improves their rate of growth.


----------



## chiahead

that method of co2 diffusing is similar to Tom Barrs's co2 mist idea. Basically pushing micro co2 bublles into contact with the plants. According to him and some others it does increase the growth rate.


----------



## Steven_Chong

I think we've all heard the theory-- but like Robert, I'd never been able to see bubbles hit the plant leaves before. However, I have to say now that with the right adjustments of equipment, it is possible to spray at least some plants.

I think the beetle/rhino is especially good for this, because the suction cup attached to the main body holds the diffuser very securely compared to suction cups that clip to the neck.


----------



## eklikewhoa

i personally have noticed no difference in growth rate with the bubbles attatching to the leaves of the plants. i have riccia, java fern, HM, dwarf sag and honeywort all in the path of the co2 bubbles and no difference. 

when i had the powerhead diffusing the bubbles i think it actually did harm to the plants. had a anubia in the path of the powerhead and the leaf that was in the most contact with the bubbles/flow would always turn yellow.


----------



## Ajax

greenmiddlefinger said:


> I did some tank adjusting. I thought this sounded interesting, so I played with the lily out-flow pipe and the Rhinox 2000 until I got an interesting result:
> 
> I put the rhinox in the middle of the tank, but really close to the front glass. I moved the lily pipe to the back and aimed it straight at the Rhinox. Ker-plow!! I now have CO2 bubbles blasting all over the place. The lily pipe blows them into the front glass of the aquarium. The bubbles get blown with so much force that they fly both up, down, and every other direction.
> 
> The result? My foreground plants (HC and tenellus which are closest to the front glass) are now literally covered with CO2 bubbles-- the CO2 bubbles kind of stick to the surface of the plants. I'll let you guys know if this actually improves their rate of growth.


I would say that was the only positive aspect of the spray bar that comes with the Eheim filters. I put my ADA diffuser under the spray bar and it was close enough to the glass that it would blow the CO2 all over the tank. After switching to the lily pipe I'm not able to do that without altering my scape, and putting the pipe in back. I'll certainly take the ADA lily pipe over the spray bar any day of the week though!


----------



## pennjones

Update: Yesterday I cleaned my rhinox 1000 for the first time by soaking it in a cup of bleach for about 8 minutes. Then I let it soak in water, but I noticed that the liquid inside the diffuser looked different than the water it was soaking in, so I figured it was dirty bleach and that it could be detrimental to my tank. So I took the diffuser and shook all the liquid inside of it out. I then soaked the diffuser in water again. When I put the diffuser back in my tank last night I figured all would be well, but today there was still no bubbles, so I ran an air pump through the diffuser and there is NO BUBBLES! I don't know what to do, please help me!


----------



## bigstick120

Got my Rhinox 2000 and have it running, very small bubbles and looks great to boot! Fits nicely in the corner of the tank. As far as not getting bubbles I would say that the pump dosent have enough pressure. Are you using DIY. As a second note I think the 2000 will be a little to large for my 29. So I am going to get a 1000 for it


----------



## dennis

An air pump may not have enough pressure. I know this sounds dumb, but check that you have CO2 buy putting the end of the tubing the water, than make sure your regultor pressure is above 20psi.


----------



## dennis

I though I already post this, but maybe not.

I just wanted to say that I got a Rhinox 2000 and and very happy. Also, I got the bubble couter with glass check valve and I am very happy with that. For $10 that glass counter and check valve is totally a steal. I wish I had ordered 2.


----------



## pennjones

I have Co2 at about 1-2 bubbles per second, but it's DIY Co2, not pressurized. I can't afford like $200 right now for pressurized, but I'm hoping to get some of the stuff for my birthday, and I might be able to buy what I don't get. Maybe I'll just mix up a new batch of Co2 for the other bottle too, then see if i can get some mist. It's worked for the last 2 weeks, then when I cleaned it and changed bottle #2 it stopped!


----------



## pennjones

Well, this morning when I woke up I had a fine mist. It must have been the mixutre I used to make the Co2


----------



## dennis

That's why I switched, though I understand the money thing. It was always hit or miss for me. Glad you got it to work.


----------



## Liquorpig

Im very frustrated. I just got my mighty mini diffusor and have it hooked up to diy co2. The problem is I cant get a mist out of the disk all the bubbles escape out of where the airline attaches to the glass. The same thing happens when I hooked it up to an air pump. It seems like no matter how much pressure there is nothing I can do to stop the leak. Seems clogged. Can someone help me. I saw pictures of someone on here were the same setup worked with an apple juice bottle, no leaks on his.


----------



## dennis

You need different tubing. Obviously your's has too large of an inner diameter.


----------



## heineken357

would the Rhinox 1000 or the 2000 work good on a 10gal tank with pressurized co2? what one should I get


----------



## bigstick120

heineken357 said:


> would the Rhinox 1000 or the 2000 work good on a 10gal tank with pressurized co2? what one should I get


You would want the 1000, I have a 2000 on my 55, it think its too large for my 29 so Im getting a 1000 for it as well, if it dosent work Ill use the other 2000 that I have


----------



## heineken357

Thaxs bigstick does this things put out a lot of bubbles? I have 2 nano glass diff and i only get a few bubbles off the front of the disk. And i have 23 psi running to it.


----------



## djlen

I have been following this thread from the beginning and find it absolutely fascinating because I'm playing with the idea of using glass diffusers in my tanks.
I'd like to see some followups from people who are now using them and how well they are working.

Len


----------



## Steven_Chong

They work great. I'm using the rhino 1000 right now, and plant growth is rapid. Pearling isn't a sign of plant health, but it is a sign of Oxygen over-saturation, and I got to say that buy the after noon each day, my tank is really over-saturated


----------



## chiahead

I concur... I have used alot of different methods of adding the co2 to the tank and I like the glass diffusers the best. I also think they are most efficient. Except on very large tanks where you would need more than 1 glass diffusers.


----------



## djlen

Can you folks give me an idea of which size diffuser to buy for a particular tank?
I have a 5.5 gal. and a 10, both of which would use the nano, I assume.
I also have 2 - 55's and a 40, but don't know which size would be best for either of them.
Your thoughts?

Len


----------



## kwc1974

I used a 5000 in my 55. It may be overkill, but I have niticed that my CO2 diffusion rate is better.


----------



## chiahead

I think the 5000 would be fine in the 55's and 40....its really not that large anyways and it does have better diffusion than the smaller 2000.


----------



## AaronT

After following this thread for some time now I decided to purchase some of these diffusers for my tanks. I took a picture of all three of them next to a measuring tape so everyone can get an idea of the size differences. Also, it appears that the 1000 is the only one that does not have two suction cup options.


----------



## Jason Baliban

Great pic Aaron!!

Thanks

jB


----------



## JohnR

chiahead said:


> I concur... I have used alot of different methods of adding the co2 to the tank and I like the glass diffusers the best. I also think they are most efficient. Except on very large tanks where you would need more than 1 glass diffusers.


OK; I have a 210 Gallon on woking on setting up. If not glass difusers, what would you suggest?


----------



## chiahead

defenitely an inline reactor plumbed into the flow on the filtration.


----------



## epicfish

Rhinox 1000: eBay: Rhinox 1000 - Japanese Co2 diffuser for planted tank (item 250037663111 end time Oct-12-06 18:08:10 PDT)

or

Nano CO2 diffuser?

eBay: 3 pcs Nano Co2 diffuser - Specially for nano tanks (item 250036808806 end time Oct-12-06 02:12:03 PDT)

Which one would be better?


----------



## AaronT

epicfish said:


> Rhinox 1000: eBay: Rhinox 1000 - Japanese Co2 diffuser for planted tank (item 250037663111 end time Oct-12-06 18:08:10 PDT)
> 
> or
> 
> Nano CO2 diffuser?
> 
> eBay: 3 pcs Nano Co2 diffuser - Specially for nano tanks (item 250036808806 end time Oct-12-06 02:12:03 PDT)
> 
> Which one would be better?


For what size tank?


----------



## JensR

Just received my Rhinox 5000 and the bubble counter. Very nice pieces of glass work. How even are those bubble escaping from the diffuser for you guys with a 5000? With right now only 3 bubble/sec I get only a active bubble area of maybe 0.5" on the 2" disk. Is this normal or should it be more even over the entire disk? I already tried to “unclog” the disk with a boost of CO2 but it’ll go back to the small active area.


----------



## Robert Hudson

> Just received my Rhinox 5000 and the bubble counter. Very nice pieces of glass work. How even are those bubble escaping from the diffuser for you guys with a 5000? With right now only 3 bubble/sec I get only a active bubble area of maybe 0.5" on the 2" disk. Is this normal or should it be more even over the entire disk? I already tried to "unclog" the disk with a boost of CO2 but it'll go back to the small active area.


Well if you read through this now monster long thread, you will see others have had the same problem. You do not get uniform bubble dispersement.



> OK; I have a 210 Gallon on woking on setting up. If not glass difusers, what would you suggest?


A reactor, which is a device that mixes gas with water and pumps the enriched water into your aquarium. There are both internal reactors that sit inside the aquarium attached to a pump pr powerhead, and external models that attach to a pump or canister filter. Some people have put them in a sump, however if the sump has an exchange of water that splashes the C02 is de gassed.

The Aqua medic Reactor 1000 is a good external reactor. I do not think a diffusor is very effective on any aquarium larger than 55 gallons.



> Rhinox 1000: eBay: Rhinox 1000 - Japanese Co2 diffuser for planted tank (item 250037663111 end time Oct-12-06 18:08:10 PDT)
> 
> or
> 
> Nano CO2 diffuser?
> 
> eBay: 3 pcs Nano Co2 diffuser - Specially for nano tanks (item 250036808806 end time Oct-12-06 02:12:03 PDT)
> 
> Which one would be better?


Someone is finally posing this question! If you go beyond all this hype and compare all the diffusors this company is Malaysia is selling, the only difference anyone can come up with between the six dollar one and the most expensive Rhino model is the Rhino has a larger ceramic disk and a extra suction cup that people apparently do not care about. That is the only difference. And if you compare those glass diffusors to those sold by people in *this country *such as Aquarium Landscapes or Drs Foster and Smith, the only difference is the price.


----------



## ianiwane

My rhinox 5000 is crazy good. Very micro tiny bubbles, as good as or even better than the ada beetle diffuser. Here is a picture of it in action. Bubbles are comming out of the whole disk. Not sure why you are having that problem.


----------



## Robert Hudson

three bubbles per second? Wow. Thats a steady stream, how can you even count or differientiate three bubbles per second.



> My rhinox 5000 is crazy good. Very micro tiny bubbles


What are all those lines in the picture coming out of the disk? Is that scratches on the glass tank wall or something else?


----------



## dennis

Ian, how do you have your filter output placed to get that flow or bubbles out?


----------



## ianiwane

Those are the bubbles it better not be scratches in my new ADA tank lol. I believe this pic was taken in aperature priority probably at 11 or so. So the shutter speed was not that fast.


----------



## ianiwane

Dennis take a look at my setup. With my filter output like this the bubbles get sent all around the tank.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/31991-ada-120cm-journal-w-diy-stand.html


----------



## dennis

Robert Hudson said:


> What are all those lines in the picture coming out of the disk? Is that scratches on the glass tank wall or something else?


 Wild guess here... I would say that is a result of the exposure setting on the camera slower than the bubbles upward movement.


----------



## FazTeAoMar

Robert Hudson said:


> three bubbles per second? Wow. Thats a steady stream, how can you even count or differientiate three bubbles per second.


You count all the bubbles that come out in 1 minute and you divide the total by 60 seconds. Just like in kindergarten.



Robert Hudson said:


> What are all those lines in the picture coming out of the disk? Is that scratches on the glass tank wall or something else?


:lol: scratches... It seems to me that its just the bubbles passing the ceramic disk. That effect is caused by the photo wich was taken with a low shutter speed, giving a blur effect. 

BTW, nice diffusers!


----------



## Ibn

Yup, the picture was taken at f/16, so the shutter speed was a very slow 1/4 seconds.


----------



## Robert Hudson

I was wondering how that mass of bubbles got under the diffusor since bubbles rise, but I figured perhaps the bubbles are on the glass tank wall and were blown there?



> Wild guess here... I would say that is a result of the exposure setting on the camera slower than the bubbles upward movement.


Then why are there bubbles in the middle of the lines? Why are the lines so faint? If they were bubbles they would be streaked like in this picture:










Just looks strange to me.



> You count all the bubbles that come out in 1 minute and you divide the total by 60 seconds. Just like in kindergarten.


What kindergarten did you go to ? LOL I am sorry, but my eyes can not see 3 bubbles per second. That is just one steady stream. You are friggin hilarious.


----------



## Ajax

I'll give a few of these a whirl to see how well they do compared to my ADA diffusers just for grins. At that price I could order enough to change 'em out every week :lol:


----------



## erijnal

Robert, the picture of the diffuser you put out is just putting out bigger bubbles. For the most part, my nano diffuser (not sure who I got it from) doesn't output bubbles that are so small that they take a very long time to get to the surface. In fact, the bubbles get to the surface fairly quickly. There are, however, usually one or two points on the diffuser where micro bubbles come out. For example, if you look closely at your picture, you can connect the smaller bubbles and they'll form a line (about smack in the middle of all the bubbles there's a diagonal of microbubbles, and they would clearly form a line if the other bigger bubbles weren't in the way of the view). I use DIY CO2 by the way.

Interestingly, though, my diffuser dried out when I moved my tank, and once the pressure built up again, I had ONLY micro bubbles, which was really cool to see. The micro bubbles came out in lines and the line wasn't broken until it reached a spot of current. Later on though, a very small amount of yeast muck got onto the diffuser and I had bigger bubbles.

Now I've recharged my DIY mixture and am seeing medium sized bubbles again, so next time I do a recharge I'm going to dry out the ceramic disk completely and see if I can get the same results.


Also, for anyone who cares, keep in mind that we don't know how many of the diffusers we use are quality checked for micro bubbles, if they're quality checked at all. So even within one brand or whatever, you could have varying results that might show up in the size of bubbles you get. And yeah, if you're using DIY, you're going to get a little bit of muck on your diffuser, even if you can't see it, and that's also probably a big reason why micro bubbles won't come out.


----------



## Robert Hudson

I am not suggesting anything, its just the picture looks very wierd to me. The lines are all uniform and solid without any gaps in the line. That to me does not look like an object in motion. If those lines are the bubbles coming out of the diffusor, then all the bubbles we see that look like bubbles in the picture are not coming out of the diffusor but are resting on the tank wall?

Whatever. Just idle conversation, not that it has any importance what so ever. Sounds like Eric took the picture. I would be interested to know how all those bubbles got sprayed on the glass


----------



## ianiwane

That is my tank, the picture was taken the day of setup. The bubbles are on the glass because of that. Back to the 3 bps thing, I can def. count 3 bps. We as human have see greater than 3 frames per second (I believe the number is 26 frames per second). Therefore unless you have a diminished capacity of sight you should be able to count 3 bps.


----------



## FazTeAoMar

Robert Hudson said:


> What kindergarten did you go to ? LOL I am sorry, but my eyes can not see 3 bubbles per second. That is just one steady stream. You are friggin hilarious.


Ok, I will try explain to you without a sketch. I am certain that you´ll be clever enough to understand. 

When you want to know how many bubbles per second does a diffuser in really high pressure, you look at the bubbles and count them in a 60 second time. You can put a timer or you can set your watch alarm to notify you when the 60 seconds end. Meanwhile, you foccus on the bubbles and count them. Forget the seconds, just foccus on the bubbles. Of course, there´s a limit to the brain when you can´t count anymore, due to the high flow. The eyes see it but the brain does not understand the information. But, at least, to a 3 b/s rate, any normal brain can assimilate a 60 second counting bubble at a rate of 3 b/s. That´s how JensR got to the 3 b/s, counting them just like in kindergarten.


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## Robert Hudson

> Ok, I will try explain to you without a sketch. I am certain that you´ll be clever enough to understand.


I love all this sarcasism! You look at them and count them! I never would have thought of that Faz. Thank you for sharing that with me! :faint:



> That´s how JensR got to the 3 b/s, counting them just like in kindergarten


You must have a very advanced school system in Lisbon. We didn't get into counting numbers here until after kindergarten, some of us long after. Its the American school system you know. We are just so sub standard to you guys, I do not know how we get along in this world! I am just this poor red neck suburban hillbilly who is just glad he can figure out how to type. I gotta go have some dinner and I will be back later. My woman has some fresh road kill on the barbecue.



> That is my tank, the picture was taken the day of setup. The bubbles are on the glass because of that.


OK, so its not from your filtration system blowing C02 around! Now I feel more normal, since my tank doesn't blow C02 bubbles around like that either.



> Therefore unless you have a diminished capacity of sight you should be able to count 3 bps.


Well thats always possible. I gotta dust off my spectacles and think real real hard and hope I don't get a brain cramp. :yo:

Ellie mae, give me one of those critter fritters!


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## ianiwane

The fine lines are from the co2 bubbles though. And it is my filtration system that is blowing around the bubbles.


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## dennis

Still easier is to count for 10 seconds and multiply by five. You can get Ellie May to watch the shadows on the floor and shout to you when 10 seconds are up. Alternately you can have her count cricket chirps and again, warn when the 10 seconds are up.



Anyway, Ian, I checked out the pics and it makes sense now. I am so used to seeing, and having, the filter in/out on the right side of the tank that it did not dawn on me. Question, what kind of filter/ flow rate do you have that it blows them around so well from across 4'?


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## ianiwane

Dennis the filter is a 2217 eheim. Supposed to be 265 g/h with a 7 foot head.


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## Robert Hudson

What the heck are you smoking there Dennis? Cricket chirps and shadows?
:clock:


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## Robert Hudson

> Robert, the picture of the diffuser you put out is just putting out bigger bubbles. For the most part, my nano diffuser (not sure who I got it from) doesn't output bubbles that are so small that they take a very long time to get to the surface.


I have never ever seen bubbles from a diffusor, any diffusor that small.

The picture I put up was taken by John N. who described the bubbles in the picture as micro and very very tiny.

Now look at Chiaheads pic of the Rhino that started this thread. It look nothing like Ians pic. Are Chiaheads bubbles too big? Also you can see in Chiaheads pic the bubbles are not coming out of the entire disk


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## ianiwane

Here you go with more proof. Enlarge the first pic and you can see all the micro bubbles around the tank as well. The second pic was taken with a macro lens with a 1/250 shutter speed.


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## epicfish

Oooh, heated debate. I hope mine puts out bubbles that fine, but I doubt it. Oh well.


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## bharada

I'm so glad I'm not a mod on this site. :badgrin:


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## dennis

Robert Hudson said:


> What the heck are you smoking there Dennis? Cricket chirps and shadows?
> :clock:


You mentioned hill-billys and since I are one I figured you cipher out my reference to using the sun as a clock. Crickets also chirp at specific interval speeds based on the temperature (old wives tale) so if you know the temp- and you can stick your head out the door for this, you'll know how many cricket chirps are in a minute.

And just to be slightly on topic, the nano diffuser I got from you a long while ago produces super tiny, mist like bubbles. I really think most ceramic diffusers are hit or miss when it comes to "quality control".


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## lenosquid

Out of shear curiousity what is the difference, or even function, of the spirals in the glass of the glass diffusers? 

And if there is an option of connecting the CO2 directly into the intake of a canister filter that would be the best option over a glass diffuser right?


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## turbomkt

kris,
the spirals are there for aesthetics more than anything else.


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## Justintoxicated

I always thoguht the venturi reactors were the best? They swirl the CO2 around untill you get 99-100% diffusion (no bubbles mayeb a very fine bubble every so often) escape the chamber.

Should I be looking into a glass diffuser instead? The only problem I have with the Venturi is I think I killed some fish last week when the airline that I run at night fell off the splitter valve. I lost some fish, I'm thinking from too much CO2. I have DIY Co2 with the Venturi reactor but I have over 30 ppm estimated, perhaps it built up to angerous levels without the airstone?  Poor fishes


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## eklikewhoa

i personally dont like the reactors cause they clutter up the tank. the diffuser is smaller, just as effecient and pleasing to the eyes.

i have not notice a lack of co2 when switching to the diffuser from a reactor.


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## John P.

As far as efficiency goes, I have better luck bubbling CO2 into my Eheim. The glassware looks good, however, so that's why I bought the Beetle from AGD.


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## Robert Hudson

> And just to be slightly on topic, the nano diffuser I got from you a long while ago produces super tiny, mist like bubbles. I really think most ceramic diffusers are hit or miss when it comes to "quality control".


Well there you go. I can not believe this tiresome thread is still being kept alive. I don't think quality control has much to do with it. They all come off the same production line in a sweat shop in China. There is no quality control. My biggest frustration with them is once they get dirty and the pores in the disk are clogged, it will never work again. You can clean it, soak it, scrub it, bleach it, whatever, its history. And if that doesn't happen, you can break them, very easily. I have broken dozens.


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## John N.

*Difference between all Glass Diffusers*

As mentioned somewhere before the difference between all the diffusers out there is the ceramic disk size which is generally better because it allows a greater surface from which the bubbles can emerge. You can push a higher bubble count on the one's with the larger disk and still get misty bubbles. For the nano diffusers, there is a threshold before the bubbles run into each other and create larger, harder to dissolve bubbles.

My Nano Diffuser produces fine misty bubbles. Most of these micro bubbles either get caught in a current or they dissolve before they reach the surface.









_Nano Glass Diffuser - Misty micro bubbles_









_Pot Glass Diffuser - Misty bubbles, with greater surface area for more bubbles.

_The quality will vary from diffuser to diffuser, even the ADA ones. Always have more than one for this reason, and just in case you break them.

-John N.


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## eklikewhoa

my nano mist like john's and i have witnessed the same when bubble count is turned up the mist merges back together.


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## caymandiver75

Bringing back an old thread, but how are you guys getting the CO2 bubbles spread around the tank. Do you have a seperate water pump near the Diffuser somewhere blowing the bubbles?


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