# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Is aquascaping Art?



## Mortadelo (Mar 14, 2004)

Well, is it just aesthetics or ethics what we are trying to achive?. We can just express beauty but we can not express happiness, political ideas or more complex human issues. Literature, paint or sculpture can for instance.

Is just aesthetical beauty enough to call this art?.

How far can a planted aquarium go into art?.

Just say NO to WAR!.

[This message was edited by Mortadelo on Tue February 25 2003 at 03:46 PM.]

[This message was edited by Mortadelo on Wed February 26 2003 at 02:53 AM.]


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## Mortadelo (Mar 14, 2004)

Well, is it just aesthetics or ethics what we are trying to achive?. We can just express beauty but we can not express happiness, political ideas or more complex human issues. Literature, paint or sculpture can for instance.

Is just aesthetical beauty enough to call this art?.

How far can a planted aquarium go into art?.

Just say NO to WAR!.

[This message was edited by Mortadelo on Tue February 25 2003 at 03:46 PM.]

[This message was edited by Mortadelo on Wed February 26 2003 at 02:53 AM.]


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Feb 3, 2003)

I've also often wondered whether the word "art" could truly be applied to aquascaped planted aquariums. I personally believe that yes, it can be so, not not in all cases.

If you're trying to replicate a natural settings, especially (but not necessarily) a biotope setting, then it's pretty hard to call that art. You're simply replicating nature (which is beautiful, mind you).

The first thing that comes to mind when I think of an "artistic" aquascape is, of course, Amano. His tanks do represent Nature, but not in a conventional way. He uses artistic representation things seen in nature that are not necessarily aquatic.

But some people use the word "art" in reference to aquascaping, meaning the process, not the result. I guess I can buy that.

-Sam P, BSME
My Website


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Aquascaping is definately an art. Is landscape painting an art? What about sculpture? Gardening is definately art, as is flower arrangement. Aquascaping is all of these and more in that something is more than the sum of its parts.

I don't believe that for something to be called an art it necessarily needs to reflect human issues. Art is by definition an expressive or creative form. I wouldn't call the music of Arnold Schoenberg or Phillip Glass particularly political or even in some cases expressive of the human condition. However, the care given in creating that is an art, and sometimes, science in itself.

Next time you look at a painting of a bowl of fruit, an Ansel Adams photograph, or a carved duck decoy ask yourself if that's really art. 

Proverbs 3:7-8


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## Mortadelo (Mar 14, 2004)

I really hope one day aquascaping will be regarded a an artistic form of expression but nowadays most people I know (Even those that keep planted aquariums) consider this to be a just a hobby and their aquariums glass boxes, not the potencial art works they could be.
Even after showing some people a few works from Amano they say, "yeah, they are beautiful, so what?". I even tried to to show AmanoÂ´s works in an Art channel on the IRC, they simply louhghed at me. I am a bit discouraged. The Senske Bro. made it but imagine asking a gallery in your town to show your aquariums, that is not possible at present (but I would love to).

[This message was edited by Mortadelo on Tue February 25 2003 at 09:56 AM.]


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## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

aquascaping is an art, if you approach it as an art. some here could be accused of being too scientific in their approach, others could be accused of being not scientific enough, if all were analysed with a fine toothed comb. but it is up to each of us, what we gain from the hobby. success for most of us, is defined by what we each think of what WE have accomplished. i would bet that only a select few have admirers of our tanks who are appreciative of what it took to get our tanks in the condition they are in, most are just our friends who see our tanks, and know we have some kind of obsession, and say, 'doesn't that look nice'. and so, i guess we each do it purely for self satisfaction. i know i do.

i got into this hobby, because i knew i needed a hobby. i was too much into my work, and needed something to capture my imagination, and do it purely for my own satisfaction. am i totally satisfied with what i've been able to do? well, i enjoy my planted tank, the fish, the plants and their interaction. so, yes, i am satisfied. but... going on the net and seeing others' fine examples sure makes me want to have a better eye for plant placement, and making my plants grow in nicer forms. keeping more difficult fish more successfully in a planted tank would definately be a goal as well.

thanks to all the people on the many forums, and many articles and books i've read, i can say that i am certainly better than i was, but not finished improving.

rick

but thanks for asking. what was the question? maybe a yes or no answer would have done just fine.


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Aquascaping is an art. I have often thought that aquascaping would reach the status of art when it invokes in a viewer some emotional reaction beyond "Ooh pretty." But really, a lot of more widely accepted art produces no reaction in a viewer other than "Ooh pretty" so why should I demand that aquascaping meet a higher standard?

Now good art is something else. Good art should be more than simply pretty.

Some of Amano's photographs prompt a sort of dreaminess and some evoke tension and excitement. I'm never sure whether the effects are caused by his photographic skill or by the aquascape itself. I'm pretty sure that the impression is influenced by his written descriptions of the aquascape.

My youngest daughter is a ballerina. Because of that I've seen dozens of dance performances over the last few years. Ballet is widely accepted as an art form. Some ballets are pretty but uninspiring. Some are entertaining, some are technically commendable. Of all the performances I've seen I think I've seen only two that gave me an emotional reaction deeper than "that's pretty;" one was a modern ballet and one a modern dance. Not a good percentage.

In fact, all of my kids and some of my oldest friends are heavily into art. Two things I think they could all agree on is that good art is a lot of work, and that very little art is really good art.

I think we can expect the same thing to be true with aquascaping. Aquascaping is an art, but very few aquascapes are good art and we aren't going to make good art without a lot of work.


Roger Miller


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Well said Roger!

Proverbs 3:7-8


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## imported_locus (Feb 2, 2003)

You could debate semantics all day and not come up with a conclusive answer.

The question I ask is: does it really matter? We spend our lives defining... why not just appreciate?

It's up to the individual to decide what to make of aquascaping.

Stick that in your post-modernist pipe and smoke it.


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## AndyL (Jun 5, 2004)

Art is in the eye of the beer-holder. Ooops no thats not right... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, yeah that was it!

Have you been to an art gallery lately? Last time I went there was a million dollar painting, probably 20' high, that was blue with a red stripe down it... Is that art? Didn't say anything to me, no message, other than some artist was making a mint of the morons who decide what is and what isn't art.

Is a beautiful fish tank filled with life any less artistic than that big blue painting with a red stripe? It woudln't take much thought as to which I'd rather have in my living room.

Could my temporary angel habitat containing my pair of angelfish, and a clown loach not make a political comment? Here are two varieties fish from opposite ends of the world peacefully cohabitating in a small space? But yet I can't keep 2 rainbow sharks in a tank without one ending up dead. Hey, there just could be a Complex human issue or political idea in there somewhere... 

Can't we just get back to making aquariums more beautiful?

Andy

Andy L

Man created Planted Fish tanks, God created algae.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2003)

"Is aquascaping Art?"

Yes.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

The Senske brothers have a public art gallery consisting of nothing but aquariums and plaudariums, in Houston. To my knowledge it is the only one of its kind in the USA. Jeff Senske does not even think of himself as a profesional artist on the same level as Amano, but it has created quite a stir in Houston with local newspapers calling it living art, not a public aquarium.

Anyone who masters a form of media as expression can be called an artist, how much it is appreciated by other people is very ambigious as is all forms of art.

So, yes, I believe it can be an art, but it doesn't have to be for someone to enjoy the hobby. Will planted aquariums attract a beatnic or hoity toity crowd and millionares who will buy one from a gallery to stick in their living room? Will Andy Warhol groupies convert to planted aquariums? Will a fringe society of planted aquariums develop? Doubtfull, But I have thought for sometime I should approach Michael Jackson to buy some huge custome made planted aquarium to add to his Never Never land. Something for all the little kids to look at.

Robert
King admin
www.aquabotanic.com


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## imported_Navarro (Feb 23, 2003)

I will have to say yes and the reason why is because you have to spend time and time over trying to achieve the desire look. You most know your colors your greens and learn how to use them well in order for you make what you have pictured in your mind I can spend hours thinking about how can I do it? and how to do it? But then again it is just my opinion you make it an art or you doesn't that is up to the person who is doing it.
Luis Navarro
Houston TX


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## imported_ryuken168 (Feb 2, 2003)

Yes, Aquascaping is a art form. Your canvas is your tank and the palette of colors are your rocks, wood plants and gravel. Most gallery highlight there painting w/ spotlight and we use Striplight.
Good art takes skill and talent, same applies to aquascaping.
I was just hired by a LFS to create aquascaping tanks as a whole unit for sale. I'm hammering out a contact before I start.
Ken

Aquatic Bliss


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## wetmanNY (Feb 1, 2003)

It seems like such a stilted, old-fashioned question: "It's beautiful. But is it _Art?_" -- already being satirised in _New Yorker_ cartoons in my own adolescence. Art infuses craft with a deeper universal resonance that might be translated into a "message" by an individual beholder. But not every Shaker chair is any more than a chair.

Not all of Amano's aquaria have that moment of fleeting time captured in eternity, with the hint of melancholy that's at the center of Japanese concept of wabi-sabi. Some are just glorious aquariums.

I'd sure be interested in some links to the Senske exhibition...


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Try

http://www.aquariumdesigngroup.com/aquascape.htm

Many of the tanks in their studio have been photographed repeatedly and the photos posted all over the web. What they show in their studio is just there to bring in new clients. Their real work is in private homes and offices in the Houston area.

Roger Miller


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## eruji (Feb 1, 2003)

My God those are beautiful aquariums, excellent link Roger


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## wetmanNY (Feb 1, 2003)

There's something brilliant but too hard about this perfection. Or do I equate "mellowness" with algae? The cliche in my mind is "a sense of place" --that I miss sometimes in these richly colored and sparkling compositions.

But I'd never make an AGA contestant, let alone a _judge!_


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

As a slight aside to this thread, the AGA conference participants last year got to tour Aquarium Design Groups studio in Houston. The aquariums on display there are fabulous, but they are not perfect. The Senske's tanks have some of the same annoying little problems that most everyone else has; a little green spot algae, a few plants that aren't growing real well -- you know the stuff. Their tanks are huge and the photos are always taken at a enough distance from the tank that the little warts disappear.


Roger Miller


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## imported_Ivan (Mar 1, 2003)

Yes!


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## imported_carpguy (Feb 1, 2003)

I've spent more than a little bit of time thinking about art and I'd say that aquascaping definitely fits the bill. At least my bill. So what's art? 

I think the first thing to do would be to get rid of Andy Warhol and high-end galleries. I personally think there's a lot more to abstract art then AndyL is willing to credit it with, but that kind of art is mostly besides the point. What about the private activity of the painter or the musician or whatever, what characterizes their project? Can pottery be art? Carpentry? Isn't it a meditative and spiritual execrcise when someone sustains a focus within a defined field and continually makes arrangements and modifications to those arrangements in order to achieve or approach an abstract perfection? 

I don't recollect my philosophy in detail, but I think Kant held Judgement to be the most refined Category of Thought because it had to be simultaneously self-referential and nevertheless true. This is wrong and this is right. Why? I couldn't say. What could we mean by elegance? What is sublime? No logic, no evidence. A sense of correctness. Not something arbitrary. A process, certainly. A desire to refine towards an unknown or nonexistent ideal. Or just a desire to refine. 

What else would you call it?


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> What else would you call it?


Craft. I'm not sure where one makes the distinction between art and craft.

Roger Miller


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## JaredtheAquamaniac (Feb 3, 2003)

For me keeping aquariums is an art, because I make it an art. For others, its a science, and still others its a hobby.

To be an art, I try to express a certain feeling, or emotion to the aquascapes. Not symbolism, or "he seemed upset when he build this" but feelings on a much simpler level. Some are busy, and complex; others are much more easy going, even peaceful, but all of them are beautiful.

The science of it may be keeping R. Macrandra thriving, or getting other challenging species to bloom. Maybe making new hybrids in exotic colors or leaf shapes. 

The pure hobby of it I think is the purple gravel with a painted castle and some Java Fern or Java moss growing loosely in the substrate. The plant is growing very slowly under the factory single tube bulb.

There is nothing wrong with taking any of these approaches to the hobby, and Im sure some of us have traveled down one or more of these paths. The important thing is being satisfied with what you have, and dreaming of new ways to grow and expand yourself in the art, science, and hobby.


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## imported_carpguy (Feb 1, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Roger Miller:
> Craft. I'm not sure where one makes the distinction between art and craft.
> ...


I'm not sure there needs to be a distinction, but if I needed a line I'd draw it here:

There's a guy in my painting class who churns out very beautiful abstracts one after the other. Very little difference, very little thought. He is very good, but he's a technician and he's practicing a craft.

Last week I was checking a job on press. The pressman can make very fine final color adjustments by controlling the flow of ink onto the cylinders. The only catch is that it will run the full sheet in the direction of the rollers in a narrow band corresponding to each ink duct. Knowing that I am completely fascinated by the craft and the machinery, the printer tells me about how an oldtimer he once knew was so good he could fine tune the water flow and run off over the cylinders so that he could keep the extra ink on only part of the circumference. Long after anyone else would notice the man kept thinking and watching and refining for his own satisfaction. The integrity of that kind of work gives it a something more than craft. That's art.

And while that's a level of mastery that is absent from my humble novice tank, the happy dissatisfaction is not. Its in a lot of the tanks around here and out there.


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## rudedog (Feb 6, 2003)

It sounds to me like were getting too bogged down with the conventional definition of art.

I think this is a fairly straight forward question - basically if we arrange a group of objects (or colours and sounds) so they become pleasing to us in some way then it becomes art, if only from the perspective of the creator!

To me, art is a very personal thing, simply because its very essence is subjective. Whether Aquascaping is ever universally accepted as a form of Art in the conventional sense should never be an issue.

Certain people would have us believe that something is not 'art' unless enough people all agree it is. This to me is very wrong, people should create art purely for themselves - if other people like it all well and good. When we try and create for the benefit of others we run the danger of producing something which is manufactured and the essence or spirit which makes it art is lost.

This is only my opinion of art and is open to debate









Rob


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## Cyprinus (Mar 6, 2003)

Of course, Mortadelo.

So you are a great artist (some of your neigbours should compare you to Salzillo...







)

Well, I stop pulling of your leg. I just wanted to say hi!

See you here or D.R. (there and Dr. ...)









Bye!


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## Shae (Feb 15, 2003)

Could it not be said that art is an expresion of one's self? I express myself with my aquascaping, however poor my skills may be. Does not art bring enjoyment, fulfillment to the creator? Are there any of us out there that would deny that arranging your tank in a way pleasing to you brings fulfiullment. Does art have to be diplayed to the public to be art? IMO no. In my mind aquascaping fits the bill as art although the definition may not be in agreement with society's, but who cares. I enjoy it.
Shae


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by JaredtheAquamaniac:
> The pure hobby of it I think is the purple gravel with a painted castle and some Java Fern or Java moss growing loosely in the substrate. The plant is growing very slowly under the factory single tube bulb.


Hmmmmmm, I have no purple gravel, no painted castles, no java moss and only a small patch of java fern. I consider mine a hobby, but perhaps I was wrong? lol

I have seen some fine aquascapes posted on the board here. I would consider them art. All you have to do is go to the Aquascaping Gallery section on this board to realize that. People give suggestions on what plant would look nice where, how to rearrange things for a feeling of (insert adjective). And it is most definitely original art because we are a long way from the technology to where someone can buy a lithograph of James Hoftiezer's tank (sorry if I butchered your last name James).

Some would say that art is something that evokes an emotional response. Well, I would assume that everyone is like me when they are gazing at their tank. You feel an extreme calming effect come over you and even if for just a little bit you feel some of your stress leave. The stems and leaves swaying gently in the current is very soothing.

Just my two copper coins.......

Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.


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## Cyprinus (Mar 6, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Well, is it just aesthetics or ethics what we are trying to achive?. We can just express beauty but we can not express happiness, political ideas or more complex human issues. Literature, paint or sculpture can for instance.
> 
> Is just aesthetical beauty enough to call this art?.


Those are easy questions with difficult answer. That's interesting!

Mortadelo gave 3 examples of arts -painting, sculpture, literature- where we can distinguish two levels of meaning: objective and subjective. Of course subjective depends on each person (and on each time one person sees a picture / sculpture or reads a book). But the objective is the same for everyone: if I write "that girl had two juicy apples" the objective level are the exact words and its common meaning. You are the one to decide what was I aiming to when I wrote that...









Of course there are work arts more or less ambiguous, but the rule I explained above is the same for all them.

Well, with music there are of course two levels of meaning too. The objective level of music are the notes wrote on the pentagram and its "standard" sound, rythm, harmony... But there's not an agree among humans about what does a "mi bemol" mean. Sadness? Rage? Love? Anyhow, everyone understands when we talk about a "sad music" or a happy one. But most of the classical composers wanted to express some concrete thing when they wrote their music.









That is the nucleus of the question. I can easily imagine a tank with black gravel, with a group of Anubias barteri var. barteri and another red plants with wide and long leaves moving beside the filter flow. That could figure a forest on fire. In the same way, I can prepare a tank with just a thin plant right in the middle to express loneliness or a tall strong plant to express proud solitude...

Of course it's not so easy as to write "Stop burning rain forests" or "I am alone" or "I feel myself as I were the center of the world" or paint or sculpt something to express that. But it's possible.

Well, that's what I think on the topic...

Best regards


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## imported_Xema (Apr 1, 2003)

Only greet to Spanish people in this forum.

IÂ´m sorry beacuase i donÂ´t speaking about this interestin theme. I donÂ´t know speaking very good english. But i think that the aquascaping is art. 

Greetings from Spain.


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## Tenor1 (Mar 3, 2003)

This is an interesting topic. One definition of art in the dictionary is "conscious use of skill and creative imagination." Doesn't that describe aquascaping perfectly? 

Regards,
Carlos

==============================
I try to keep the tank plain and simple but it never stays that way!


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## Cyprinus (Mar 6, 2003)

Hi Xema! It's good to find our cyber-friends anywhere!









I'm sorry you don't feel capable of talk about this topic in English. Well, I have a solution: post the same topic in Dr. Pez. I'll be pleased to reply there too! (It'll be easy: I'll just translate what I said here, ha, ha! I just wait to have an Spanish enough good to let the people understand what I say...









Best regards from "la casa de la primavera" (spring's house) to "la tacita de plata" (the small silver tea cup).


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Which is the greater art, the planted aquarium, or the aquarium photographer? Is the aquarium simply the subject of the artist?


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## imported_locus (Feb 2, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Robert H:
> Which is the greater art, the planted aquarium, or the aquarium photographer? Is the aquarium simply the subject of the artist?


What came first, the chicken or the egg?

A beautiful aquarium can exist without being photographed, just as you can photograph anything you can see... you can be a beautiful aquascaper/plant grower and a terrible photographer or vice versa.

All the photography skill in the world won't turn an ugly aquarium into a beautiful one. First, you create a beautiful subject and second, you create a beautiful photo.

People should focus on their aquascaping & plant skills before picking up a camera.


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

I agree that people should concentrate on their aquascape and the health of their plants but its the photographer that can make or brake an aquascape when its being shown on-line or in a photo.

Just as different bulbs can bring out reds and greens a good camera with filters and manual settings can really bring out the colors in a aquascape.

Hawk


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## imported_locus (Feb 2, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Just as different bulbs can bring out reds and greens a good camera with filters and manual settings can really bring out the colors in a aquascape.


While this is true, you can still get quite good results with a digital camera & some level adjustments in photoshop.

On the topic of photoshop, it amazes me that so many people question it's use to increase the saturation of colours in aquarium photos yet no one has mentioned the fact that Amano uses Fuji Velvia slide film for his photography - Velvia is renound for its production of rich and vivid colour, often more saturated than it appears in real life.


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