# Best Way To Get Rid Of Ich



## jdigiorgio (Jan 29, 2004)

Just wondering what the best way to get rid of ich in a heavily planted tank would be. Cardinals and rummy nose getting a bad case. Temp is already at 78F....THANKS!!!!


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: Best way to get rid of ich*

Raise the temp to about 82-86f slowly throughout the day, add some kosher/aquarium salt and wait it out.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

Bump up to 85F ASAP. Add 1.5 teaspoon of salt per 10 gal (stuff you buy at the supermarket without iodine). Change 50% of the water on the 4th day, and add 0.15 teaspoon of salt for each gal added to the tank. Change 50% of the water on the 7th day. Repeat on the 14th day. Bring the temperature back down to 78F.


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## TeutonJon78 (Nov 10, 2004)

Salt and tetras is generally a bad idea, I believe, as is most medications. They are generally pretty sensitive to things like that.

I've temperature alone to rid the tank of ich twice before and am in the process of doing it again (all separate tanks). The ich protozoa (or whatever it is) can't live above 86F or so. Plus, the warmer it gets, the faster it's life cycle, so it has less chance of getting on to a fish before it dies. The ich won't go away right away, but it will get better in a few days to a week. Then once you don't see any more white specs, leave the temp as is for 1.5-2 weeks more to make sure you got all of the ich in all of it's lifecycle. Now, if you aren't using salt or a medication, you HAVE to get the temp above 86F. If you don't, then the ich will get worse (personal experience) because you arne't enough to kill it, but hot enough to speed it up. It's taken me about 1.5 weeks to get rid of my ich right now because I misread my thermometer and had it at 85F for about 3-4 days.

If you slowly raise your temp to 87/88F (ie, probably not more than 2 degrees per day), that should do the trick. Cardinals can take it for sure, as I have 21 doing fine at that temp right now. 

If you don't want to go above 86 or can't, then you'll have to use some sort of other treatment.


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

*Re: Best way to get rid of ich*

To cure ich, the temp must get to 88deg. Otherwise, you're not going to really help the fish out. Increase 2deg every 12hrs, until you get to 88deg. Then leave it there for 2wks after spots disappear on fish. Some plants will suffer (vals come to mind), others will be fine. A friend of mine did this, and was even able to save clown loaches.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

I've treated cardinals up to 3 teaspoons per gal without any problem. The key is to build up the concentration over several days. 1.5 teaspoon per 10 gal is 100% safe for all fish. Some aquarists use 1 teaspoon per 10 gal 24/7 as a general disinfectant.


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## TeutonJon78 (Nov 10, 2004)

ok, then salt may not be a problem.

But the heat alone method does work as well.


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## tkos (Oct 30, 2006)

Salt in such a low dose for such a relatively short period of time (2 weeks or so) is not a problem. Introduce the salt slowly (not all at once) and replace any removed salt that is taken out during water changes.

Salt with iodine is not a problem. Iodine in commercial salt is far too small a dose to worry about. You would need to pickle the fish for it to become a problem.


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## aquaboy (May 26, 2005)

John - Have you tried a UV sterilizer?

-Brian


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## Mad Dog (Mar 3, 2007)

One thing I would add to using the 'heat and salt' method would be to point out the dangers of raising the water temp in a planted tank....especially those using Co2. As water gets warmer, the less dissolved oxygen can be 'stored' in it. That coupled with the use of Co2 in the day, which also 'pushes' O2 out or reduces the ability for O2 to be 'stored' in the water. Of course, at night time this becomes an even larger issue because now the plants and fish are competing for oxygen to stay alive. Finally, we also tend to make a good attempt at discouraging gas exchange in a planted tank so that also makes a higher water temp more dangerous. I would keep a close eye on your tank while the temp is higher to make sure none of your fish are gasping at the water's surface, which would be a sign of low O2 levels.

The best method for treating Ich is apparently very debatable these days....some say that meds like Malachite green and formalin based products are the best method...some say just raising the water temp is enough....some say salt is all that is needed...and some say, myself included, that salt and heat is the better choice and even though using meds may be the faster method, I feel that the salt and heat method is more 'natural' and in some aspects, less stressful on the already stressed/ill fish.

I feel that 85 or 86 degrees is going to be the 'fine line' between speeding up the life cycle of ich while not hurting you fish on a grand scale. The idea with the heat method is that by speeding up the life cycle of Ich, the white spots fall off of the fish faster. This is beneficial because when ich appears as a white spot, it is very well protected and even meds are not able to kill it at this point. However, when the white spot falls off, it reproduces and the new ich mature and float around in the water, looking for a host. When it is in this 'free-swimming' phase, it is the most vulnerable to treatment. The higher water temp is still going to speed up the free-swimming ich's life, but wont kill it with any sort of reliability, so that is where the salt comes in to play. You do not need very much salt...and in fact, I know of many people who have treated ich in a non-planted tank which held scaleless fish and/or tetras at half of the most commonly suggested dose. I am not 100% sure what the limit of salt is before it begins to hurt plants since I am new to this realm of the hobby, but usually adding salt at the rate of 1 tablespoon of NaCl per every five gallons of actual water in a tank (i.e. a 55 gallon tank may only hold 45 or 50 gallons of water since the substrate, decor, and fish themselves displace some of that 55 gallons of water.) Like I said, that dose is normally suggested to be cut in half, or 1 tablespoon of NaCl per every actual 10 gallons of water.

Also, like was already pointed out a couple times thus far, you should slowly raise the water temp and also slowly add the salt. Make sure that you are dissolving the salt in a cup of the tank's water to further prevent irritating the fish. I have heard that this slow ramping up of temp and salt can safely be done in about 4 hours, depending on how slowly your heater can make an impact on the water (the slower it takes for the heater to warm things up, the longer it would take to get that temp into the mid-80 degree mark).

I use UV on all of my tanks for varrying reasons. Obviously, in my saltwater tanks, I am trying to prevent ich or other potential parasites. On my freshwater tanks, I use UV to deter algae or bacteria blooms and for Ich treatments. I feel that the cost of a UV unit is worth it. You can also use one for multiple reasons, like I do, by simply raising or lowering the rate the water passes through it. For ich, you would want to keep the flow rate low so that the water, and hopefully ich inside the water, is exposed to the light for as long as possible. The most common reason that I have heard for not buying a UV intended for a FW tank, besides the cost, is that while running, the UV light will make most any medication less effective, or completely useless. However, you can still use the salt and heat method since salt is not effected by light. To dispell the myth that UV filters will kill benificial bacteria right off the bat, keep in mind that the benificial bacteria do not swim freely in the water column and so the UV has no effect on anything that cannot physically enter and pass by the light.


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## Lord Nibbler (Dec 22, 2005)

I haven't had cardinals in a long time, but I had great luck treating my rainbowfish with 2 tablespoons/gallon. It worked when the formalin/dye meds didn't.

It seemed to kill off a lot of my Ambulias (the salt), although there might have been something else going on at the time.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

Lord Nibbler said:


> I haven't had cardinals in a long time, but I had great luck treating my rainbowfish with 2 tablespoons/gallon. It worked when the formalin/dye meds didn't.
> 
> It seemed to kill off a lot of my Ambulias (the salt), although there might have been something else going on at the time.


There are rare but nasty hybrid white spots that are resistant to heat and normal dose of meds. High concentration of salt will work, but it can cause problem for weak fish. I've dosed up to three tablespoons per 10 gal with 100% success.


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## Mad Dog (Mar 3, 2007)

> There are rare but nasty hybrid white spots that are resistant to heat and normal dose of meds


All white spots are resistant to meds and salt. Heat isnt a treatment used to kill Ich, it is used to 'perfect' the environment so Ich can grow faster, so to speak. This is used so that it will fall off the fish sooner rather than later, at which point it becomes vulnerable to treatment. Try doing a google or yahoo search for "heat resistant Ich"...you will find absolutely no infomation to suggest that this is true, nor does anyone, out of millions of websites, seem to even make that statement other than here. Ich which has become resistant to meds, yes, but heat, no.

I recently wrote up a sort of 'prove yourself' post with a lot of information and resources to support the use of the salt and heat method which you can see HERE. I also picked up an API liquid salt test today and played around with trying to figure out how much salt is needed to result in a solution of 0.05% salt in a mixture of water. In three cases, one teaspoon per gallon of water resulted in about 0.06% salt solution (as was told to me by a good friend, but I wanted to double check that for myself before I started spreading that information). This 0.05% salt solution is often recognized by many experts as being sufficient for Ich treatment and may be less 'risky' for plants and scaleless fish, including tetras.....and probably less harsh for 'weak fish' as well.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

Sure, and there's only one strain of cold, AIDS, cancer, etc.... You are the man.


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## TPIRman (Apr 28, 2004)

It's amazing how many myths still remain about what is probably the simplest fish disease to treat. Mad Dog has gotten pretty much everything right on the money. Nice to see someone who has done his research -- thanks for your efforts, MD. (The only error I see was his statement that CO2 displaces O2 from the water column -- not true, but it's a minor mistake and the point about temperature's relation to O2 concentration remains.)

Just want to quickly dispel a couple of myths that have reappeared in this thread. Special salt is not necessary. You can use plain old iodized salt; don't waste the extra cash at your LFS on "aquarium salt," and don't feel the need to run out to the supermarket in search of kosher salt if you don't already have it in your cupboard. The amount of iodine you will place into the tank using iodized salt is minuscule. It will not have an adverse effect on your fish. (Consider the fact that many aquarists regularly dose higher concentrations of iodine when they are keeping shrimp in the tank. The fish don't care.)

Re: the heat-only method. Virtually all strains of ich will die at ~86F and above. But are you sure the water will always be above 86F? Do you trust your aquarium thermometer and your heater's thermostat that much? Are you sure there are no low-flow zones in the tank that could get cooler? And so on. Heat alone is a scientifically sound method, and if you're confident in your temperature measurements, it will probably work. But there is so little disadvantage to the rock-solid heat + salt method, I have never tried to use heat alone.

As far as tetras being too sensitive, I can't find any account of tetras reacting poorly to the relatively low concentration of salt required to treat ich. Same goes for scaleless fishes like cories.

David Sullenberger has penned an excellent primer on ich that covers these points and others. More importantly, it offers a treatment walkthrough that leave little room for error. Highly recommended.

And thanks again to MD for his informative posts on this common aquarium parasite.


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## Mad Dog (Mar 3, 2007)

Amen TPIRman! Thanks for clearing that Co2 issue up for me. Check out this picture and short video of a situation I recently noticed in my newly planted tank...I had raised the temperature in the tank in reaction to a couple of white spots that I had noticed on a rummy nose and rainbow in the tank. Since I was not sure if the white spots were Ich, I used the heat method since it is basically non-invasive and has ness negative aspects than dosing medications on a 'just-in-case' basis:









http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l162/tommygunnz76/FW Videos/?action=view&current=LackofO2.flv

I had not thought the decision to raise the temp in the tank through enough and obviously did not consider the reduced O2 factor...as you can see, almost every one of my fish are at the surface gasping for air. Since I have never had this issue in any other tank when doing the same thing, I assume that it has something to do with the CO2 and reduced surface aggitation in this new planted tank. All I did was turn an airstone on and raise the spraybar above the water level so that it made a lot of surface disruption. The potential Ich is now cleared up and may not have been ich at all in reality. I am running UV on this tank as a precaution anyways.



> Sure, and there's only one strain of cold, AIDS, cancer, etc.... You are the man.


Applying that same brand of common sense you are always advertising, I will say that since Ich is not a bacteria or virus, it does not evolve as quicky as you are suggesting and so comparing it to other bacteria and viruses is unfair and like comparing apples to school buses (not oranges since they would both be fruit). Also, common sense would also state that if all bacteria and viruses were able to evolve to become immune to heat, then making sure that you cook your hamburgers to some predetermined internal temperature would not help and you would probably not be able to afford an aquarium nor a computer with internet due to your extremely high medical bills.

Once again, I am only here to learn, however, I feel that if I can help ensure that misnomers and misinformation dealing with topics that I am experienced with are squashed before they spread like a cancer, then yea, I am the man. :heh:


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

Fish have been around much longer than people (unless you're GWB). If you have a degree in biological science, then you would never claim that there is *ONLY ONE* strain of white spot, one strain of TB, one strain of fluke, etc....

How long has AIDS been around? Do you still believe that there is only one type of aids virus?


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## Boz (Jun 1, 2006)

I've always read that it's not necessarily the iodine in the salt, but the anti-caking agents used that are irritating to the gills.


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## TPIRman (Apr 28, 2004)

The anti-caking concern is also a myth. The quantities are too minute to harm fish. See the piece "The Salt of the Earth, The Salt of the Sea" by Robert T. Ricketts.

As far as temperature-resistant strains, it seems that people are talking past each other. The confusion seems to stem from the fact that high temperatures are used toward two different ends in ich treatments.

In terms of speeding up ich's life cycle, no, there is not any strain of ich that has built a "resistance" to heat used in this manner. Increasing temperature will hasten ich's life cycle without fail.

In terms of using heat to kill ich, there have been reports of rare ich strains that can withstand temperatures above 86F. Because of this, the University of Florida (which has done a good deal of study on the matter) recommends a temperature of 90F if you decide to use heat-only treatment. Although such high-heat strains of ich are rare, this is yet another reason why heat + salt is your best bet once you have made a firm diagnosis of ich.

In other words, both Mad Dog and furballi are right. MD is discussing heat use in terms of the life cycle -- a fundamental biological process to which no ich has developed a "resistance" -- and furballi is discussing it in terms of high-temperature death. I don't see where MD claimed there was only one strain of ich, so I don't understand why we're hammering on that point.


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## Mad Dog (Mar 3, 2007)

Here is the thing...and this is applying all of my common sense and experience, which is semi-substantial even though I don't have a biology degree hanging on my wall....

First, you need to consider TWO items when you find Ich in your tank: #1.) How to kill or otherwise rid your tank of the Ich protozoa and #2.) How to do that but keep the fish alive in the end.

In my overly lengthy and notoriously boring post on the "salt and heat" treatment, which can be read by clicking HERE, I refer to and cite the University of Florida's study and findings on Ich that TPIRman brings up above (that article can be viewed by looking HERE, if you are interested in such things). Anyways, that article, along with the others I used, shows very clearly that salt and heat work well in an aquarium for treating this issue. Keep that in mind as you read further....

So, we know that when subjected to a higher water temp, Ich does a couple things:
1.) The more 'ideal' environment of living in water temps in the lower 80 degrees (F) range makes it grow faster, live shorter, fall off fish more rapidly...which ever way you want to put it.
2.) The most common information that I have come across states that Ich cannot reproduce at temps above 89 degrees (F), and/or dies at that temp. My thinking is that since it cannot reproduce at that temp, and since this higher temp also speeds up the life cycle of Ich, there is the appearance of Ich dying off completely.

However, and this is a big *HOWEVER*, what is not being addressed here is the second item I pointed out at the beginning of this rant....what effect will that high of a temperature have on the fish, inverts, and plants that we keep in our tanks? It is a big consideration, don't you think?

Hence, the information that 90 degree temps is not useful to everyone of us because we may have fish, inverts, or plants which cannot survive in that environment. As I have stated before, since we are giving out information to others, most commonly related to a fish or aquarium that we have never seen in real life and thus, do not know every bit of information or variable that may play a part in the success or failure of a specific treatment, idea, opinion, or even fact we give out, IMHO, it is best to make an attempt to suggest the most holistic (meaning something that works while considering any and all variables at the same time) approach available. So, for the record, this is why I often times skip a lot of these facts which are useless to many other than to prove how smart you or I am compared to someone else. It in no way means that I haven't considered them.

That said, lets keep in mind my original tidbit of information that I posted at the very beginning of this member's thread...warmer water holds less dissolved oxygen than cooler water. (That is a plain out, straight fact, that no one should be able to dispute or attempt to dispute by the way) My fear is that since we all probably have plants in our tanks, which, as I have learned since joining this otherwise fantastic forum, become a strain on dissolved O2 levels themselves, without warmer water, because they stop using CO2 in the night time and begin to use O2 at night. So, even if you could successfully raise the temp of our water during the day without detriment to our livestock, there is an increased chance that we might wake up to a bunch of dead fish in the morning.

Soooooo, this is why I am a big proponent of using salt and water temp in conjunction with each other. Why? Because you can probably raise the water temp in your planted aquarium to 85 degrees (F) with less problems than raising it to 90 degrees (F), WHICH STILL HAS BENEFIT in that the life cycle of ich is sped up, making those white spots fall off the fish and reproduce into its tomont, or thermont stage...which is the free-swimming stage of Ich, which is NOT visible to the naked eye for the most part, and the MOST common reason why people who stop treatment too early have a recurrence of ich....which is the MOST vulnerable stage of ich as far as meds and treatments are concerned.

Now, forget all of this junk about me proving myself or giving resources which support my ideas and 'pie in the sky' information....I did that and it didnt help. I challenge you to show us, most importantly the newer members of this forum who are depending on you for solid, reliable information that states similarities between Ichthyophthirius multifiliisthe AIDS VIRUS, the VIRUS which causes common colds, or GERM which causes TB. The bottom line is that as I said, you are comparing two totally different things here since Ich is a protozoa, or a unicellular, animal-like being (sorry for the wiki reference, but they are right in this case). Why is that important? Because the propogation of the myth that Ich is bacterial in nature leads many people to use anti-biotics to treat it, whch can cause a whole host of problems, including a continuing Ich problem.

My point still remains the same, a forum is worthless if the information and ideas that are being relayed are not dependable. This is not 'the good ole days' where one person can make a statement and without taking a trip to a library and reading several books, that person is taken at face value. I am giving you tons of information which all you have to do is click your mouse on to view. I assure you that it was easy to come up with these resources, it only took a couple finger movements and some scrolling through pages. I find it interesting that it is not as easy to find out about the 'heat resistant' strains of Ich which I feel allows for a reasonable assumption to be made that this is not really an issue. And to think....I am trying to agree with you in that both heat and salt should be used for ich treatment (although in much smaller salt doses) and yet you still want to disprove me consistantly. I know my stuff, honestly.


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## TPIRman (Apr 28, 2004)

Mad Dog said:


> Hence, the information that 90 degree temps is not useful to everyone of us because we may have fish, inverts, or plants which cannot survive in that environment.


Agreed. The question that started this thread is, what is the best way to get rid of ich? The informed consensus is: with low-to-mid-80s heat + salt.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

Bottom line, 85F and low concentration of salt may not cure all types of white spot. Some strains require very high concentration of salt which will kill plants and weak fish. The proper approach is to start out with a low concentration of salt and gradually build up the salinity over several days. If there is no improvement, then add more salt.


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## Mad Dog (Mar 3, 2007)

I agree furballi and would only add that if the Ich appears to be impervious to salt and higher temps, rather than kill off an entire tank full of plants and/or inverts, all the fish can be removed from the tank, placed in a quarantine/hospital tank where you would be able to exceed the amount of salt and heat that plants cannot handle. However, this is only going to be completely successful if ALL the fish are removed from the tank and then the display tank is kept without fish for several weeks, to a month. Without a fish to host upon, Ich will simply die off. Then, once you can be relatively sure that both the q-tank and display tank are ich-free, the fish can go back in. I assume that this is more feasible with a planted tank since the resulting loss of a large portion of beneficial bacteria from removing a substantial source of ammonia (aka, the fish) would result in a nearly non-cycled tank. It is my understanding that having a heavily planted tank reduces the need for cycling that tank, correct?

I must also say that I was wrong to imply that there are not various strains of Ich and that in reality, some are more resistant to heat and/or salt, meaning the water temp has to be extremely high to impact or the addition of salt would need to be raised substantially. This is apparently information that is not often discussed or if it is, it is almost never highlighted. An interesting tidbit of information that I found while researching this more in-depth is that these strains of Ich would also be resistant to medications such as Malachite Green and Formalin based versions. So, I still keep my position in feeling that the 'salt and heat' method is by far the least stressful and most natural treatment I know about at this time.

However, before we start to get jumpy and panic because the Ich has seemed to withstand the salt and higher water temp that we began a couple days ago, it is important to know that this is often a common occurrence and is likely to happen regardless of the treatment being used (e.g. Malachite Green, copper, salt and heat, etc...). This is because new white spots can appear after treatment has began due to the possibility of an Ich protozoa attaching itself to a fish and having a delay in time between when it latched on, and when it grew the protective cover or shell that is the all-to-common white spots. I also still stick to my position that when in its white spot stage (a.k.a. Trophont stage), it is very well protected against treatments that can kill it while leaving the fish alive. Hence, the success or failure of most any treatment cannot always be judged simply by counting the number of white spots on a fish...at least not over the initial days a treatment has been under way.

What I am not clear about right now is whether or not these heat resistant strains of Ich would still be affected by a temperature increase in that the speed of its life-cycles are increased. This would be somewhat important in my mind since if it is completely unaffected in every way by a higher water temp, then it is more or less a waste of time and I would skip it...but that is ONLY if I was sure that what type of Ich I am dealing with is really the resistant strain. That might be the hard part, obviously, and so I think that raising the water temp to 85 degrees (F) is still a viable option and one of the few 'just in case' treatments that I would feel comfortable with...as compared to dosing meds or chemicals as a preventative measure. 

Being someone who is admittedly a complete 'noob' as far as aquatic plants are concerned, I am still unsure as to what amount of salt would become harmful to plants, even though I have now been told that salt is OK in a planted tanks to some extent....but to what extent exactly? I assume that some plants are more sensitive than others, correct? If so, is there a general 'rule of thumb' or guideline as far as being able to know at a glance if the plants in my tank can handle salt? Also, if salt is being used and after a couple days there is noticeable issues occurring with the plants, would that damage mean the plant is going to die, or can they recover?

That concern I had about the higher temp reducing the dissolved oxygen in a tank, which is compounded in a planted tank for various reasons, is still a real-world consideration that one would have to address before long once embarking upon a treatment regimen. In fact, since this conversation has prompted me to refresh my memory on my past research on this subject, as well as me delving deeper into more scientific websites versus aquaria sites, I found out that the common Ich medications available today are almost worse for reducing dissolved O2 levels than upping the water temp. I have read multiple warnings on multiple resources and websites which clearly state that using meds along side a higher water temp is highly discouraged. In fact, I would also point out the fact that salt, in appropriate amounts, can be used to help a fish 'breathe' easier which should I should have pointed out at the beginning of this conversation. Of course, that is also why adding salt is often suggested for new aquariums undergoing a cycle because it supposedly reduces the toxicity of nitrites, which really just helps protect a fish from nitrites which often damages a fish's gills rather than to work directly on the nitrites themselves.

I am glad that you pointed this out furballi. I have learned a lot from trying to find indisputable evidence that my information, ideas, and claims are correct. This is obviously a great example of how information on this hobby is constantly evolving and why it is important to keep reading, even if the topic is something I am very familiar with. I appologize for stepping on your toes here, I should have engaged my brain before I engaged my keyboard. However, I still think my advice is good and will work for most any tank since there is no way to identify 'normal Ich' versus 'resistant ich'.


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## Kimbalaya (Apr 3, 2007)

Question! When treating your tank for ich, and you are instructed to remove the carbon from your filter, in my case, since I have an Eclipse system, this means removing the entire filter, do I keep it out for the entire time I am treating the tank, or do I put it back in after a few hours? Since treatment is likely to take over a week, I can't see going without filtration that long. Stupid question? sorry, but I am new to this.Thanks.


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## Mud Pie Mama (Jul 30, 2006)

Kimbalaya,

Yes, you are right that a week would be way too long to stop your filtration. More so with fish already struggling to fight off disease. You want to keep the water quality top-notch. 

I'm not an expert on ich treatments, but I have successfully modified a sponge to use in my Eclipse and stopped using the manufactured carbon cartridges six months ago. I cut a piece of open-celled, fine foam pad, (the type used in my Rena Filstar canister filter) just a hair wider than the lower level of the filter tray so it snugs in. I cut it about an inch shorter in length so I leave a little space where the water first enters the tray so the water flow isn't blocked. I still use the tiny Bio-Wheel as this is not a CO2 injected tank.

I have been able to keep amano shrimp and cherry shrimp alive in this Eclipse tank so I'm sure water quality remains great. This is, of course, a well planted tank with the plants helping maintain the water quality.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Welcome to the board Kimbalaya. 

If you are treating for ich with the salt treatment, the carbon wouldn't affect it, but if you are using meds, then yes, the carbon would remove the meds from the water.

On the same note, water changes are the only thing that will get the salt back out of your water when you're done with treatment, so it takes a while.


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## tkos (Oct 30, 2006)

If the cartridge is older than a couple of weeks the carbon is probably spent anyway so just leave it in as a bacterial medium, regardless of meds or salt (though I agree with the salt method).


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## Kimbalaya (Apr 3, 2007)

Thanks for the replies. I have been reading the other posts, and have raised the heat. I have already been treating for 3 days with the Rid-Ich, and I do see improvement. If I also tried salt, should I stop the Rid-Ich treatment, or will both be OK? Thanks!


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Kimbalaya said:


> If I also tried salt, should I stop the Rid-Ich treatment?


Yes, I would not use both, so I would stop the Rid-Ich, do a water change, add some fresh carbon to remove the traces of Rid-Ich, then start the salt treatment.
Good luck.


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## Mad Dog (Mar 3, 2007)

I have yet to see a filter in which you cannot take out the carbon. I think you might have the one with the blue fibrous pad and carbon inside it, right? If so, just cut open that blue media, dump out the carbon, as much as you can, and put it back. Otherwise you can take out the whole thing and just add some filter floss. I had an eclipse 3 at one time which had a bio wheel deal on it, and if you have the same, just take out the entire thing with carbon in it and keep the filter running with the bio wheel. If your tank is cycled and established now, you will have enough bacteria in your substrate and on your decoration to stop a mini-cycle from losing some filter media.

It is a good point about carbon becoming useless after a while, however, I would still pull it out anyways if you can. The reason for this is that carbon is able to soak up some things better than others, and med are one of those things I think it can take out pretty well and pretty quickly. The reason you change your carbon, or are suggested to, is because it cannot suck up ammonia, odors, tannins, etc...(things that discolor your water and make it smell 'fishy') as well unless it is relatively new. If you are like me and never ever change your carbon, and it has been in your tank for years, then yea, it probably cant suck anything out of the water. (FYI, carbon filter media makes really good homes for bacteria once it is saturated).

I wouldn't do two treatments at one time either, mainly because you are putting your fish under duress twice as much as you have to really. Meds are ok, and probably a bit quicker than the salt method, but salt is much easier on fish, and apparently plants, than meds are. Just remember...after you see the last white spot has fallen off your fish, KEEP TREATING FOR TWO WEEKS! I know that other people may disagree with me on that length of time, but ask yourself this..."If I have been treating this tank for weeks already, what can it hurt to treat for a few more, just to make sure I don't have this problem again?" The only time I would not stick to treating for two additional weeks, is if I was going to treat for longer than that amount of time. You really can have an aquarium with absolutely no Ich in it at all since it is a closed system. The trick then will be not doing anything that will put more ich in the tank again in the future.


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## OD_1 (Feb 12, 2007)

Thanks for the great tips...


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## meredymae (Jan 5, 2007)

I set up a tank a week ago with about $100 worth of crypts from Aquaspotworld. Lo and behold, the beautiful 4 swordtails I bought seem to have been harboring ich.

I didn't quarantine because it is a new setup and there aren't any other fish in there.

Now I wish I had, because the tank is now home to ich and I don't want to kill my crypts. The plants are more important than the fish, though I would like to save these swords.

Anyway, I am NERVOUS to add salt to this tank, no matter how little, because these crypts are awesome and I would be devastated if they were adversely affected.

crypt ponterderifolia, wendtii, wendtii mi oya, parva, tonkinensis, and various other plants including rotala rotundifolia, vals, sags, and a bit of hygro.

Should I just take out the fish and let the tank sit fauna-less for a month? Would the ich die due to a lack of hosts?

I've treated some pretty nasty parasites with salt on lots of different fish (especially goldfish), so I am confident I can get rid of it in a bare tank with salt and a heater. I just haven't had to do it in a planted tank before.


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## TPIRman (Apr 28, 2004)

Yup, go ahead and get a 10-gallon (or so) hospital tank and treat the swordtails in that. Without fish hosts, the ich in the planted tank will die off well within a month. If you want to be extra sure, raise the temperature in your planted tank while you are treating the swords in the hospital tank. As noted above, this will speed up the ich parasite's life cycle and, with the lack of hosts, hasten its death.


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## Mad Dog (Mar 3, 2007)

Yes, great point TPIRman! If you have inverts or plants which you want to protect (this happens A LOT in saltwater tanks), then quarantine your fish from that tank. You dont need a great big set up or anything for that hospital tank and can get away with not cycling it, if you are wise and stay on top of things, or just move the filter from the planted tank to the new 10 gallon tank. With four fish, you should be able to keep up with any issues that may arise in a 10 gallon tank since those issues should occur slowly enough that you can do small water changes daily. The trick there is to understand the cycling process and what to look for. As always, test often in this tank. I would keep the fish in the hospital tank and the planted tank free of fish, for at least two weeks after the last white spot falls off your fish. As stated before, just becasue you cannot see it, does not mean Ich is not present.

I did the same thing as you, didnt quarantine because there were no other fish to quarantine these new ones from. Just like you, I had signs of ich within a week and at that point, I wasnt sure on how salt would affect any plants at all. So, I went the heat and UV route, which worked well for me. Of course, the downfall there is the price of a UV sterilizer and possibly a pump if you are not using a cannister filter that you can control the flow rate on. But, it is an option and if you can get the water flow through the UV to be on the lower end of the recommended "flow spectrum" (for lack of a better term right now)...for example, my UV filter says the best flow rate is between 100 and 200 gph, so shoot for that 100 gph rate. The more exposure the Ich protozoa comes under from the light, the higher the rate of death for the parasite will be.


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## tygger (Apr 8, 2007)

I may have missed it... how much salt per gallon are we suppose to use to treat for ich with neons in the tank?

Thanks


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## TPIRman (Apr 28, 2004)

If you read David Sullenberger's article on ich (also linked above in my first post as "excellent primer on ich"), you'll find out all you need to know. The method he outlines will work fine with neons, scaleless catfish, etc.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

tygger said:


> I may have missed it... how much salt per gallon are we suppose to use to treat for ich with neons in the tank?
> 
> Thanks


The optimum concentration is 3 tablespoons per 10 gallons. I usually start with 1, then work up to 2, then 3 by the 3rd day. I always supplement the salt with 85F heat at the first sign of white spot.


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## snickle (Apr 8, 2007)

I have found CopperSafe a great Ich treatment, if you do not have invertebrates. But I did not see that actively mentioned here. Is copper harmful to plants? I am new to the planted world.


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## Mad Dog (Mar 3, 2007)

Copper is not really all that great for anything and even fish can die from it at certain concentrations. This is why the CopperSafe instructions state that you need to test for copper and try to maintain a certain level to be the most effective while remaining less harmful to fish. Coppersafe is a bit different because it uses a chleated (or non-chelated, can remember right now) version which stays in the water column rather than soaking into the tank's seals, substrate, decor, etc.... However, I think it also says that some copper may become 'trapped' in the tank so there is still the risk of it hurting inverts later on. This is not a situation in which you just stop dosing copper, do a few water changes, and then put inverts back into the tank. In general, once copper is in the tank, the tank will ensure that no inverts live in it if you dont stop adding them first. All in all, I think the idea here is simply that salt is a bit more 'natural' than anything else and if kept to an appropriate level, it cant hurt much, if anything.

Speaking of appropriate levels, as I have said in the past, a saline mixture of 0.05% salt is most often quoted as the 'optimal level' which is about 1/2 a teaspoon per gallon or approx one tablespoon per 5 gallons. Adding more salt, to a point, is not going to make things happen faster or be any more successful. I would go with one tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons or less and no, I am not arguing any more about it with you Furballi. The proof is all over my posts.


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## peewee790 (May 26, 2007)

thank you for the advice. I started a new thread.


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