# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Question about Nitrates and Biowheels...



## Ron Nelson (Apr 2, 2003)

I have had my 75 with a Magnum 350 Pro canister up and running for about 5 months now. For the last 2 months or so, I have not had to dose any KNO3 because the nitrates are always at about 40 ppm. I have great growth and almost no algae these days. The only time I can get nitrates down is after a 30% weekly water change. I know I'm maybe a touch overstocked. My measurements of fish and size say I've got about 1.12 Inches of fish per gallon. The tank is fairly heavily planted with just a little gravel showing in the front where the gloso hasn't spread yet. So what I'm wondering is could the biowheel somehow cause my nitrates to always stay higher than desired? I'm willing to remove it but I thought I would ask if anyone else had any thoughts first.

Thanks,
Ron


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## Ron Nelson (Apr 2, 2003)

I have had my 75 with a Magnum 350 Pro canister up and running for about 5 months now. For the last 2 months or so, I have not had to dose any KNO3 because the nitrates are always at about 40 ppm. I have great growth and almost no algae these days. The only time I can get nitrates down is after a 30% weekly water change. I know I'm maybe a touch overstocked. My measurements of fish and size say I've got about 1.12 Inches of fish per gallon. The tank is fairly heavily planted with just a little gravel showing in the front where the gloso hasn't spread yet. So what I'm wondering is could the biowheel somehow cause my nitrates to always stay higher than desired? I'm willing to remove it but I thought I would ask if anyone else had any thoughts first.

Thanks,
Ron


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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

It might be. On the other hand, it is your stock of fish making the ammonium. The bio-wheel competes with your plants for the ammonium, and squanders your CO2. Try removing it. Put it in the water to keep it "alive" in case you have to put it back.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

The only way the Boi-Wheel could cause high nitrates is if you also have a lot of ammonia in the tank. A Bio-Wheel can't make nitrates out of thin air. You say you only have 1.12 inches of fish per gallon. But that is a very poor rule of thumb. 1.12 inches of Cardinals is way different that 1.12 inches of Oscars. Are there dead fish somewhere in the tank?

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## Ron Nelson (Apr 2, 2003)

No missing fish. Although possibly there are missing shrimp. And here is a break down of whats in there-
7 corys
5 rainbows biggest one is 3.5 to 4 inches
3 Dwarf gourmais
6 2 inch SAE's
5 Lemon Tetra
2 Red Eye Tetra
4 Glass Catfish
1 4" Rainbow Shark
1 5" Common Pleco
Used to be 6 Amano shrimp I've only seen 3 lately.
And there used to be 12 Ghost shrimp and the last time I saw them the rainbows were in hot pursuit. So I think the ghosts ended up as dinner.
1 Apple Snail
Who knows how many MTS and Pond snails...


Thanks,
Ron


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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

That fish load is consistent with 40 ppm nitrate. Do you have CO2 and heavy planting as well? How heavy planting?


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## Ron Nelson (Apr 2, 2003)

I do have CO2 it's normally between 25-30ppm. As for how heavily planted you tell me. Go to http://www.netgods.net/~rdn2/aquarium/ The picture on that page is about a month old and my glosso and hairgrass are going nuts now in the middle so it's actually almost covered in the middle now too...

Ron


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## Steve Hampton (Feb 13, 2004)

Ron, considering your setup regarding CO2 injection, plant mass, and fish load, I would be very suspicious of your nitrate test kit accuracy. Meaning your kit may be indicating there is a lot more nitrate than is actually the case, possibly you have nitrite interference too. What brand of NO3 test kit are you using?


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## Ron Nelson (Apr 2, 2003)

I have 2 NO3 test kits one is about a month old and is from Red Sea. The other is about 5 months old and is from AP. The Red Sea kit results seem to drop from before to after water changes. The AP kit doesn't show any drop in NO3 after a water change which which is why I bought the Red Sea kit to begin with. They are both the type that you take a water sample and add reagents to. I haven't tested for nitrites in a long while but I'll go do so and post the results in a while. I guess I could also go get another NO3 test kit and see what happens with it...

Ron


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

The AP kit is pretty accurate as long as you follow the instructions exactly--i.e., shake the bejesus out of the reagents. The Red Sea kit is useless, IMO. If you don't want to bite the bullet yet and get a LaMotte kit, try Jungle Dip 'n Strips for a second opinion. They are surprisingly accurate and will also give you a separate nitrite reading.

Be sure and test your tap water for nitrates, also.

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## Ron Nelson (Apr 2, 2003)

Well according to my AP Nitrite test I have no Nitrites. I'm going to run over to Petsmart and grab a Jungle test and see where it falls...

Ron


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## Ron Nelson (Apr 2, 2003)

OK here are all the NO3 results:

Red Sea: Between 20 and 50 ppm
Jungle: 40 ppm
AP: 10 ppm

So I am assuming my NO3 are about 40 ppm. Any ideas how to get a 6" Pleco out of the tank without uprooting everything? That would get me a lot closer to 1 inch per gallon.

Ron


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

I would believe the AP results out of all of them!
Regarding AP...
Are you shaking them really good?
Are you shaking the test tube for 1 min.?
What is the lot number on the bottles?

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## Ron Nelson (Apr 2, 2003)

I shake the heck out of soulution 2 for at least 30 seconds usually more just like the instructions say. And I shake the heck out of the test tube for at least a minute and then let it set for 5 minutes just like the instructions say and then measure the result. The lot number on solution #1 is 18A0802 and on solution #2 it's 18A1002

Ron


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

all sounds good so far, one more question...
are you holding the test tube up against the color chart?

Maybe make a small solution of kno3 and mix it in a gallon of water... what do all tests show for your tap water BTW?

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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

I looked at your aquarium, and I like it a lot. I would call it "moderately" planted. But that's subjective. I have a heavily planted tank, and that means there is no more room for anything.

I use the AP kit, and it has been very reasonable. In particular, it matches the nitrate claims my water company makes. Call your water company and check the water against their claim. Also, get some distilled water, and check the zero reading.


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## Ron Nelson (Apr 2, 2003)

I tend to hold it about an inch off the chart when I measure. As for my tap water its-
Red Sea: 0 ppm
AP: 0 ppm
Jungle: more than 0 and less than 20 ppm (thats the first range on it)

My water company claims it to be less than 10 ppm.

gsmollin - thank you. I've actually moved a few things around recently but to add a red tiger lotus in the left center mid/back-ground I need to add some new pictures soon...

Ron

Oh also just how much of an indicater plant can sunset hygro be? What I mean is will it absolutly not turn pink above a certain level? Cause the upper leaves on mine are fairly pink.


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## Rene (Jun 7, 2003)

Just remember, just because the water company says it has NO3 below 10ppm doesnt mean its like that all the time. There are times when it can fluctuate greatly. You have to remember, nature is not consistent, since the water is from nature you can expect your water supply to be just as inconsistent.

Though this may not explain the high 40ppm of NO3 in your tank, it is one piece of the puzzle. The next thing I would do is try to house the pleco somewhere else, remember plecos generate alot of waste. So, maybe by removing it, it will lower your waste load and hopefully your NO3 as well.


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## Ron Nelson (Apr 2, 2003)

As far as the pleco goes I'm with you... I've got a 55 I'm getting back from my sister soon so I'll move him there. Any ideas on his capture? As for my water quality you are right I'm sure that it does vary. But this isn't the first time I've tested and found it to be 0 or near zero so I don't think it's the problem at this moment. Oh and also just to let everyone know I removed the biowheels a few days ago after it was suggested, so far no change. Also thanks to everyone who has chimed in with thoughts on this...

Ron


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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

I had an idea, rdn2. 
1. Measure your aquarium water with the test kit. Say it measures 40 ppm.
2. Mix 1/2 aquarium water with 1/2 distilled water. Measure again. It should read 20 ppm.
3. Repeat, cutting the aquarium water by 1/4 = 10 ppm, and 1/8 = 5 ppm.

If this checks out, its likely the test kit is accurate. Its a shame they don't ship calibration solutions, like Seachem does.


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## Ron Nelson (Apr 2, 2003)

Alright after thinking about this a bit I've decided that since I never actually wanted a common pleco and was just saving him from the toilet. I'm going to give the pleco up for adoption. I would like to keep the 55 gallon I'm getting back a planted tank too, and the pleco is just going to get bigger. So I called up the LFS and asked if they wanted him. They said sure. So now I get to get him out...


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## Ron Nelson (Apr 2, 2003)

OK Pleco is gone. Now I have about 1.02 inches per gallon. So I guess I'll watch and see how things go. While I'm waiting I'll do some tests to try and validate my Nitrate tests.


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