# Java ferns/mosses and high light



## Emily6 (Feb 14, 2006)

Hey all- I'm worried that my new windelov java ferns might not be happy. I have them tied about mid-depth on some bogwood mostly unshaded in a 1.7 w/g tank. I've read that mosses, java ferns and other slow growers often don't do well in high light. But I doubt 1.7 w/g could be called "high." However, the only other thing that adds credence to this in my tank is that the anubias and java fern never did that well in my old 40 gal, 2.75 w/gal el natural tank either. 

Conversely, I've also read that often plants will slough off leaves after changing water conditions. I haven't gotten the CO2 running yet (but I am dosing Excel) so maybe these newbies are adjusting to that disadvantage while the anubias just haven't finished recovering from tearing down the old tank and being in a bucket for a few days.

Thoughts? I know this thread is a little of a reach for the lighting department but I'm not sure where else is appropriate.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Emily6,

I agree that 1.7 WPG is probably not "high light", even if the Windelov are about mid-depth.

I grow my anubias and java fern Windelov and Trident with 2 WPG 6700K and they are about 1/2 down an 16" tall 30 gallon tank. I do run CO2 and I dose Excel.

I have noticed that if I my dosing KH2PO4 drops off, the ferns seem to "melt" but recover when I increase my PO4 again.

Here is the 30 gallon. Windelov on left; Trident middle-right


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## Emily6 (Feb 14, 2006)

Interesting... I want to believe that they'll phase out of this as they adjust but what's haunting me is that my java ferns just shriveled up one day in my 40 gal el natural and never really came back- the root ball always had tiny green shoots but they never turned into a full plant. Just rolled around the tank. At the time I thought this was because they were reacting to something leaching off the driftwood they were tied to. But this seemed unlikely after they were cut loose as root balls and still didn't recover. 

At the moment I think there are too many variables with my new set-up to really say yet. I think one test will be the fact that I have three different sources for my java ferns. The traditional variety seems to show no stress whereas both sources of windelov seem to show slight blackening.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Emily6,

The "blackening" of the leaves is pretty severe in my case, in about 5 days or so the leaves will go from healthy to leaf areas that are blackened and dead to total leaf death.

Hmm, I just thought of something. I have very soft water here in Seattle and when I am dosing the "extra" PO4 I typically also add some Seachem Equibrium to the water to increase the dGH and add some magnesium and calcium. What kind of water do you have in Boston?


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## Emily6 (Feb 14, 2006)

Well besides having a pH of about 8.5, the hardness is sort of middle of the road. More on the soft end. I haven't tested it precisely yet (just a dip strip). Since I'm coming from el Natural, I don't really have a fertilizer routine yet- I've just been adding Excel to keep potential algae problems quiet in the absence of CO2. I've been nervous to add anything else for fear of helping algae that might be lying in wait of nutrients. 

Also worth considering is that my tank is still technically cycling. While I think keeping a lot of original plants and fish is helping, there is still more ammonia and all that than there probably was coming from the source tanks.

Thanks for the insight!


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## Gramazing (Mar 6, 2010)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi Emily6,
> 
> I agree that 1.7 WPG is probably not "high light", even if the Windelov are about mid-depth.
> 
> ...


Hey, is that a marselia sp. on the right? And you're growing it in 2 wpg? It looks very healthy.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Gramazing,

Good eye! Yes, that is Marsilea minuta on the right front. It is a standard 30 gallon (36"X12"X16" tall) with AH Supply 2X36 watt kit (really like the MIRO 4 reflectors) and 6700K bulbs. The substrate is Soilmaster Select Charcoal. I dose EI with Flourish as the micros and Excel.


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## Gramazing (Mar 6, 2010)

I can't mine to carpet like that. You probably have slightly more light than me (I have 4 x 32 w T8s in a DIY), but I'm guessing its the Soilmaster Select substrate you're using. I just have sand with root tabs.

Damn that stuff looks so much nicer than sand too.


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