# Barr No Algae Start Up Plus



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I just set up a polyethylene container with an emersed planting of Hygrophila sp. 'Porto Velho', planted in zeolite sand, fertilized heavily with 20-30-20 water soluble plant food - Shultz All Purpose Plant Food, which has 16.4% Urea nitrogen, 3.2% ammoniacal nitrogen. I used an inch of sand, with a half tsp of fertillizer mixed into the lower quarter of the sand. It has three cuttings of the hygro in it, water level is right at the surface, because I wasn't able to lower it below the surface. It is under a 27 watt CF bulb desk lamp. The top is plastic wrap covered with two tiny holes for breathing.

























Now, lets see if the zeolite can adsorb enough of the ferts to avoid burning the plants, to avoid algae bloom, but to allow the plants to grow. Stay tuned!


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## FacePlanted (Aug 13, 2007)

Cool. It's neat to see you starting an experiment regarding the zeolite sand as a growing medium/substrate. 

Can't wait to see how it works.

Good Luck! :-D 

-Mike B-


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Interesting set up Hoppy! Sounds like a lot of fert in the soil, but we'll see.


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## Squawkbert (Jan 3, 2007)

Zeolite details?

(What kind, where did you get it, is it expensive, what, if anything is known about the sieve & pore size ranges)?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

This is the "progress" after 4 days - no burning that I can see, but no growth yet either.

I'm using Zeosand, http://www.zeoinc.com/zeosand6.html, from Leslie's Pool Supply store. It has particles from about .5 mm to 2 mm, and it cost me $25 for a 25 pound bag, which is about a cubic foot of sand.

Bert, I used a ridiculous amount of fertilizer to see if the ammonia trapping due to the 100X higher CEC than any other substrate has will protect the plants from burning. Also, I plan to add water later when and if the plants grow and I want to see if the zeosand will keep the ammonia out of the water. This is kind of an omnibus experiment.


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## FacePlanted (Aug 13, 2007)

This experiment will certainly reveal some important info.
I'm eager to see the results, and read the answers to your questions regarding ammonia, and what will happen after you fill it with water.

Good luck with your tests!

-Mike B-


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I had a minor set-back on my experiment. Guess what happens if you set a little container filled with wet sand on the edge of a desk. It happened, but the clear plastic wrap kept the sand in the container, even upside down. So, I replanted it. Each of the cuttings had a single little root that had grown, but no leaf growth that I can see - 11 days now.


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## Supercoley1 (May 28, 2007)

George Farmer (gf225) has already setup a real tank like this to see if it works. I think hes put it in the aquascaping section on here. If not it is UKAPS and TFF.

Andy


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## FacePlanted (Aug 13, 2007)

Dang. Sux to hear about container's little trip south. 
That is weird though, only a little root growth after 11 days? Maybe they were about to take off after they started to establish their root system.
Are you gonna replant and keep going?

Good for George and his "real tank".
I'm interested in the results.

-Mike B-


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I replanted them after smoothing out the sand again, and adding a bit more water. They still look the same. According to the plant finder this Hygro will grow emersed, so I still have hopes that this will work.


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## Supercoley1 (May 28, 2007)

I found the thread if anyone is interested

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/44418-30cm-cube.html

Andy


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Thank you Andy! I looked for it, and missed this one.
I'm going to try this method too, having just picked up a 10 gallon tank, and wanting to experiment with zeolite sand too.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Two weeks later, here is what the plants look like. It looks like the emersed growth is very small round leaves! I suspect the super high fertilizer dose I gave it may also be burning the plants a bit. I will give it another week or two before adding water to see how it goes back to submersed growth, and how the zeolite sand protects the water from the ammonia, if it does.


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## turbomkt (Mar 31, 2004)

For some reason villagephotos.com seems to be down...


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

After 18 days, the "sand" has a dark fungus looking bunch of spots on it. The plants are growing, but with tiny leaves. I decided to wash out the fertilizer I added and replant the same plants to see if overfertilizing was dwarfing the leaves. It took a lot of washing to get near clear water, but I finally got there. The plants all have long roots, one with 2 inch roots, and are growing in the normal way, by lengthening the stem, but along the substrate with roots at the leaf nodes.

Now, a couple of weeks should be enough to see if they grow faster or with larger leaves with far less fertilizer.


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## FacePlanted (Aug 13, 2007)

Glad to hear the updates. Very interesting. Keep 'em coming!


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

It has been 8 days since I washed the excessive plant food out of the zeolite sand and replanted the cuttings. The plants now look much better, and the leaves are bigger and closer to the submersed shape.










And, an oblique view:









I think I have now learned that zeolite sand will grow plants, not that I doubted it. It does appear to absorb nutrients, since most of the growth in these photos is with no added fertilizer after washing the sand. But, fungus does grow in the very wet sand, as can be seen in the dark spots on the sand. Hygrophila "Porto Velho" can be grown emersed, and the leaf shape is near that of the submersed leaves. The growth isn't as fast as when grown submersed. I can see this method working to establish a lawn of this plant before adding water to the tank, but patience would be required, and a lot of care would be needed to keep the water level well below the top of the sand. (This is hard to do. The sand can seem almost dry, but tap the container a few times and water appears above the sand. I'm not sure what that phenomena is.)

I will pull up the plants just to see what the roots look like. Then I think I will discard them since I don't need them and I don't want to send them to someone only to find they don't make the transition back to submersed in good shape. Photos of the roots may follow.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

How do you think Zeolite sand would work as an aquarium substrate? I'm having diffuculty getting Schultz which I have been using for years, so I am wondering if this would be suitable.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Robert Hudson said:


> How do you think Zeolite sand would work as an aquarium substrate? I'm having diffuculty getting Schultz which I have been using for years, so I am wondering if this would be suitable.


I think zeolite sand would be great as a substrate, but that is just a guess so far. In a couple of days I will be setting up a 10 gallon tank as a non-CO2 tank, using zeolite sand over Diamond Black, which is Leonardite. As usual I tend to test two things at once, then I don't know which one is the cause of success or failure. Maybe some day I will learn not to do this.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Thanks for all the follow-ups Hoppy. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that this 'way' works, but you must have patience. There's no way I would ever get a tank and merely let it sit with wet substrate waiting for the plants to fill in for 4-6 weeks before filling it up. I'd rather deal with the set up problems which are common. In actuality, I suppose patience is needed in one way (waiting for the plants to grow in emersed) or in another (waiting for the tank to stabilize after full set up). Pick your way to be patient.


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## FacePlanted (Aug 13, 2007)

Thanks for keeping up with the updates. Using the zeolite as a growing medium is very interesting. Wish I had more to say at the moment.
Great job with the experiment and journaling/pictures.

It does appear that too much ferts can be a bad thing. Very interesting to see the small leaves with all the ferts, and such great looking growth after washing the substrate out. 

Do you think the good growth is because now there isnt too much ferts causing stunting and the plants are using their reserves, or that the zeolite absorbed plenty of nutrients to give good growth after the nutrient additions were discontinued and washed from the substrate?

Cant wait to see how the full tank works out with the zeolite substrate.

Peace!

-Mike B-


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

The emersed start up method, using HC, is probably a good idea. That not only gets rid of the start up algae woes, it also gets rid of the problems keeping the HC down in the substrate instead of floating out or having the fish pull it out. And, HC apparently makes an easy transition from emersed to submersed. I'm still not so sure it is a good way to start other carpet-type plants. It will take a lot of people trying it with different carpet plants before we can say how good the method is. But, no question, it is an interesting and fun thing to try.


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## mollyfarmer22 (Dec 17, 2020)

We use clinoptilolite zeolite as a start-up method and also for maintenance! we love it

We use the filter rocks too that are big chunks of zeolite: https://ida-ore.com/product/poseidon-filter-rocks/


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I had forgotten about that experiment. All I recall is that I did not like the zeolite pool filter sand as a substrate. As I recall, it was a total failure.


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