# Eco-complete ruined my Mag. 350



## Gunther (Dec 21, 2005)

about ready to replace with flourite. Eco is some nasty stuff it clouds up your
tank when your fish moves. It covered my plants with black dust. I had the worst algae ever with this stuff even with the replacemant bags. Its mostly powder which will get sucked up in your filter and I even had a sponge on the
intake. It compacts down and I can't see this being good for anything. 

It gets sucked up in the python and you can't do a good job of cleaning it.
It's not black it looks like an ashtray. It gets stuck to your fish.

Now im stuck with 160lbs of this stuff. Never had a problem with flourite
have like 200lbs of the stuff in my other tank for 8 years now without one
problem.

What good is eco-complete?:-({|=


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## Simpte 27 (Jul 16, 2004)

Pretty harsh statements considering many people here use it without problem (myself included). Have you ever thought it might be user error?


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## Gunther (Dec 21, 2005)

Simpte 27 said:


> Have you ever thought it might be user error?


Is that your refute?lol I assure you, it was rinsed the correct way.

How can facts be harsh?


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## aquaboy (May 26, 2005)

I'll take it out of your hand instead of it going to trash. I live in alexandria & work in DC.

-Brian


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Eco doesn't need rinsing, and it won't cloud your water. If your water is turning cloudy you probably have a batch of the stuff that's bad. Check your phosphates, if they are sky high, you have the bad stuff. If so contact the manufacturer and they will replace it. (At least that's what folks have reported in the past)


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## Gunther (Dec 21, 2005)

aquaboy said:


> I'll take it out of your hand instead of it going to trash. I live in alexandria & work in DC.
> 
> -Brian


Likewise, I live in Alexandria and work in D.C. too.
I wouldn't trash it, cost to much at the LFS.

guess I have two options replace the eco
Or buy a better filter that will work with sand.

My p.delhezi pair are the ones stirring it up.

would an Xp3 work with sand? 
it's for a 75g. and the the xp3 has the
impeller on the top, unlike the 350.
I use to own two of them but sold them with my 180.g


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## Gunther (Dec 21, 2005)

Bert H said:


> Eco doesn't need rinsing, and it won't cloud your water. If your water is turning cloudy you probably have a batch of the stuff that's bad. Check your phosphates, if they are sky high, you have the bad stuff. If so contact the manufacturer and they will replace it. (At least that's what folks have reported in the past)


Wrong! I already had it replaced and the person from C/S said it has to be
rinsed adding to an established tank. Even say to rinse it on the package.

This eco stuff clouds a tank worse then anything even after a good cleaning.
It will continue to cloud up when fish stir it up also.

Man I'm feeling aggro here and I'm a nice guy really. I'm just having a hard time with this eco, so don't take it personal.


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## SolarityBengals (Feb 10, 2006)

I can't python mine very well. If I move stuff it makes the water cloudy but it quickly settles down. Mine appears pretty black and I have a canister and no problems. I really like it so far, minus that it kicks up easily. I've heard the sand settles to the bottom and the gravel will go to the top so I'm hoping that will happen.

I never rinsed mine. In a couple days it was clear.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

I can understand your frustrations. 

Maybe I've just been lucky. I did a ten gallon with Eco, granted it wasn't an established tank, but I just dumped it in. I have never had the water cloud over when I uproot/replant with Eco. With Flourite, it takes me about 6 months before uprooting/replanting doesn't cloud up the tank. I guess the motto is ymmv.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Gunther said:


> Man I'm feeling aggro here and I'm a nice guy really. I'm just having a hard time with this eco, so don't take it personal.


I don't think anyone is taking it personally. This is your experience, and it happens to be a bad one. Most people are probably wondering what's wrong with your set, and why it's making this so cloudy. Are you dosing anything? I get cloudy water that goes away after a day when I replant or do maintance.

As for the fact that its sometimes really grainy, I agree. It's kinda hard to "gravel" clean Eco. You can't do it like normal, and stick your tubing over the the substrate. Instead you have to stir the stuff up a little first and then suck up the floating debris.

Compaction is an issue for most substrates I would say. Eco does have a tendency to have more compaction than others to do the smaller grain size.

As for the color..I like the color. Soilmaster looks like an ash tray from the pictures I seen. But it's all in the eye of the beholder eh? 

Anyways what are your plans now? Are you going to try to figure out why your Eco is funky (I assume 'funky' b/c most people have good experiences), or are you going back to flourite?

-John N.


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## John S (Jan 18, 2005)

the bag i had never said anything about rinsing it first and i like it alot better then flourite talk about clouding the water and i cant stand red clay


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

It really sounds like the product is different now than what it used to be. And not in a good way.

The Eco in my tank comes from 2002.

The package said not to rinse. Nothing about rinsing anywhere.

When setting up a new tank, the water remained crystal clear after filling.

Tank is now over three years old. Absolutely no compaction.

Grain size is medium to small. I can clean it easily using the Eheim sludge extractor, which I have done only twice.

Experience absolutely nothing like what the original poster reports.


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## Gunther (Dec 21, 2005)

Salt said:


> It really sounds like the product is different now than what it used to be. And not in a good way.


I think the product has changed. It's all powder smaller grain then the moon sand.

When I say powder it's comparable to say flour, with not much of the larger grains at all.

The new package shows the powder on the bottom with a larger grain on the
top. My eco is all powder with a few small grains here and there, not enough
to make a top layer, even after churning it up.

So when my fish start stirring the substrate it clouds the tank and the powder
gets sucked into the filter and covers my plants.

I don't know what I'm going to do yet with this new eco.

The 75g. is filled with anubias so might just have to go back to gravel.


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

That doesn't sound right at all. Another bad batch of product maybe? If this is indeed a "new" formulation, it certainly sounds like a step (or several steps) down to me.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

> That doesn't sound right at all. Another bad batch of product maybe?


I totally agree. Why don't you contact Carib Sea, http://www.carib-sea.com/pages/products/fresh/freshwater.html and find out if they have indeed changed the product or if they are having more issues with Eco.


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## Gunther (Dec 21, 2005)

Salt said:


> That doesn't sound right at all. Another bad batch of product maybe? If this is indeed a "new" formulation, it certainly sounds like a step (or several steps) down to me.


I don't think its a bad batch because this is what they sent me for replacement/warranty. It's just the way they make the new eco.


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## Gunther (Dec 21, 2005)

Bert H said:


> I totally agree. Why don't you contact Carib Sea, http://www.carib-sea.com/pages/products/fresh/freshwater.html and find out if they have indeed changed the product or if they are having more issues with Eco.


Why? This is what C/S sent me for replacement/warranty and that took a long time. The lfs has the same stuff, so I'm thinking it's as good as it gets.


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## jrIL (Apr 23, 2005)

What is being described here sounds alot like Eco-Complete Cichlid Substrate, fine grade. They make a course and fine. the fine is often called sand grade. Just a thought.

JR


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## John S (Jan 18, 2005)

am wondering if they made a mistake when packageing it up and use the wrong bag useing an eco compete bag but filled it with Eco-Complete Cichlid Substrate, fine grade i was just at a lfs and looked at there bags and it looked the same as it have ever looked


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## Gunther (Dec 21, 2005)

Bert H said:


> I totally agree. Why don't you contact Carib Sea, http://www.carib-sea.com/pages/products/fresh/freshwater.html and find out if they have indeed changed the product or if they are having more issues with Eco.


Bert was right, I called them and indeed the product was changed last year.
It was changed to a two layer substrate with a fine sand on the bottom with
a granular on the top, that has to be rinsed.

Thing is mine had barely a top layer just all sand. So thats why my 350
magnet was thrashed.

Rick said their trying to get the old eco back but will see.

This will be my second warranty with eco, so just a heads up.


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## C_perugiae (Feb 26, 2004)

Wow... definitely haven't had a problem with it in the five tanks I've set up with the stuff. Just did a tank two or three months ago and it was fine; no rinsing. They've always had that thing about different grain sizes... my only complaint is that there aren't two grain sizes, but several, from sand to 1/2" chunks.

I'll keep that in mind the next time I set up a tank, though. I'm glad the bags are clear... good for inspection.  Thanks for the heads up.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Actually the 3 bags I bought this past summer were all pretty fine, uniform sand. I loved it actually. Wonder if they will give me the old if they are recalling that?

I hated the multi sized grains. If anything EC could be slightly coarser, more like Aquasoil, but that would probably make it even lighter. I wouldlike to try the ADA just for kicks but the last batch of EC was awesome and I was in no way displeased!

Personally, dumping any fine sand into a tank full of water and expecting a mechinal device like a filter to clear it up without damage is jsut poor thinking. You would have had the same experience if you had used Onyx, Florabase, poolfilter sand, blasting grit, whatever.....


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## Gunther (Dec 21, 2005)

dennis said:


> Personally, dumping any fine sand into a tank full of water and expecting a mechinal device like a filter to clear it up without damage is jsut poor thinking. You would have had the same experience if you had used Onyx, Florabase, poolfilter sand, blasting grit, whatever.....


You think, now that would be stupid. I rinsed mine and added it to a tank with 4 inches of water, refilled, replanted and waited for it to settle before turning on my filter.

I knew about the eco change after my first warranty. All you guy did was try
to defend this eco with no good advise.

The only way I can keep this eco is to buy a filter that works with sand because my fish like to burrow.


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## titan97 (Feb 14, 2005)

I'm wondering how the loose particles got past the filter media and into the impeller housing. Even without DE, my 350 cleans up any free-floating sediment and it never gets back into the tank. Even if the media was clogged, the impeller would still be sitting in water, and it sholdn't burn up.

-Dustin


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## iris600 (Feb 12, 2004)

I have a ten gallon that has been in eco complete for over 1.5 years. The finer particles do tend to settle, but constantly vacuuming the substrate will keep it mixed up. I don't vacuum the substrate, except what is sitting on the very top, and let MTS snails do all the aeration the media needs. This may or may not be the typical approach, but I've been really happy with this tank and the media.



SolarityBengals said:


> I can't python mine very well. If I move stuff it makes the water cloudy but it quickly settles down. Mine appears pretty black and I have a canister and no problems. I really like it so far, minus that it kicks up easily. I've heard the sand settles to the bottom and the gravel will go to the top so I'm hoping that will happen.
> 
> I never rinsed mine. In a couple days it was clear.


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

Gunther said:


> Bert was right, I called them and indeed the product was changed last year.
> It was changed to a two layer substrate with a fine sand on the bottom with
> a granular on the top, that has to be rinsed.
> 
> ...


Man, that just sucks. If I ever set up a new tank, now I know to stay away from it. The old was such a great product, why the HELL would they make such a stupid change.

To me Aquasoil isn't the answer because it dramatically impacts KH and GH, so it's not good for using in soft or RO water (which is what I use, it will mess with my reconstitution calculations).

Eco Complete was a truly unique flagship product with nothing else like it on the market. Carib Sea are IDIOTS.

I've seen one great product after another go down the toilet over the years, it really seems to me like the supply market for the FW planted tank hobby is extremely volatile in the USA right now.


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

And also, how the hell are you supposed to rinse a substrate that contains sand as a significant component?


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

I used 4 bags this summer, brand new from the factory with the new formulation and consistantly fine texture. I know they were the new formulation as I had a lengthy Email discussion with Carib Sea regarding their pond substrate and the new improved Eco. I voiced concerns regarding particle inconsistancy, packing, settling and PO4 contamination regarding earlier batches. They assured me the new batch, comming out this past summer, was uncontaminated and that the grain size would be more consistant. This summer I talked to my LFS owner, whome I know well and who is a planted tank hobbiests aswell. He assured me that the new Eco on his shelf was the newest, reformulated batch directly ordered from Carib Sea.

I have 3 bags in my 50 gallon, capping off some other exhisting substrate. I do a lot of uprooting, re-arranging and digging around. I use a fairly powerful filter flow and often I do not turn off the filter when messing wiht the substrate. The Eco DOES NOT cloud the water and new stuff settles out immediatly.

That being said I do not doubt your expereinces nor do I have to deal with aggresize sand sifting cichlids so my results may be different from yours. I just don't understand how your filter could be ruined with a prefilter. The only way I can imagine sand getting into the filter at all is if it was pushed into the strainer while the canister was running. If that happend, its not the substrates fault, its the fish's fault. If the fish did bush substrate into the strainer of a runnign Mag 350 then it might have damaged it regardless of whether you used Eco, poolfilter sand, etc. Your success with flourite might testify to that as flourite is indeed made up of most large grains that most likely would not fit through a normal strainer.

I can understand your frustration with this matter; however, you msut understand everyone's else confusion as to how a product so popular can work so poorly for a tiny handful of people.

I am sorry for your bad expereince. When and wher edid you buy those bags. Hopefully you and Carib Sea can work it out


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## Gunther (Dec 21, 2005)

Salt said:


> And also, how the hell are you supposed to rinse a substrate that contains sand as a significant component?


I use a 5g. bucket, put about 5 inches in there and rinse with a hose, then dump out the loose stuff.

With flourite I use a spaghette colander I snaked from the wife. That will rinse
that flourite so clean, you can plant and add your fish in the same hour.


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## Gunther (Dec 21, 2005)

titan97 said:


> I'm wondering how the loose particles got past the filter media and into the impeller housing. Even without DE, my 350 cleans up any free-floating sediment and it never gets back into the tank. Even if the media was clogged, the impeller would still be sitting in water, and it sholdn't burn up.
> 
> -Dustin


Because a 350 mag intake dumps the water on the outside of the filter pad/ cart. Then the sand goes straight to the bottom where the impeller is.

A XP3 should take care of that problem.


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## Gunther (Dec 21, 2005)

dennis said:


> I can understand your frustration with this matter; however, you msut understand everyone's else confusion as to how a product so popular can work so poorly for a tiny handful of people.
> 
> I am sorry for your bad expereince. When and wher edid you buy those bags. Hopefully you and Carib Sea can work it out


Having used the old eco in the past, I was expecting the same product.
I just got a batch from the bottom of the barrel.

Carib Sea has awesome customer service, they didn't have to replace anything. To keep a happy cutomer they offered to send me some larger
eco grains to top off my tank.

So I will keep what I have and buy a new XP3 filter.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Glad they worked it out for you


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