# hair algae and cloudy water



## coopers (Jul 7, 2007)

Hello,

I have a 55g El Natural setup. It has been going for 5 five months. The first three months were very successful. The rotala was growing like weeds, Vals and Sag spreading like wildfire, etc. The lighting I am using is 40w cool white and 40w GE plant grow for 9 hours a day. During the first three months though, I was getting a couple of hours of direct sunlight. Now I do not get that light due to the change in season, I added another 32 watts that I only use occasionally. My substrate is topsoil covered in fine gravel. 

Lately I have been having problems with hair algae. I put three florida flag fish in there, but the algae is not going away. I have removed most of it manually but it keeps coming back each time. The worst part is that it is growing in the gravel, and not really in clumps so it is impossible to manually remove these parts. 

In addition, I have light green water. I have done water changes which gets rid of the greenish color, but immediately after, the water is just very cloudy. The next day it will begin to clear, then become very cloudy again and within a few days eventually green again. What can be the problem?

I have 12 neons, 5 harlequins 3 ottos, one cory,and 3 flags so I dont think I am over stocked. However, I am experiencing an explosive snail population. I did not mind at first since they are my primary source of Carbon as they speed up the decomposition process, but maybe that is a sign that I have too many nutrients? But the thing is I underfeed my fish. Once every three days and no more that they can eat in 1 minute. Once a week I will crush a few snails for the fish to eat. So I don't know where these excess nutrients can be coming from. I also recently added some anachris as floaters to remove any excess nutrients but this had no effect on the green water.

I am not having good growth now (except for the vals), probably because the cloudy water is blocking the light. The rotala is yellowing, and at a complete stand still, as well others.

Should I try a black out? More water changes? Something else? Please help.

Sorry for the long post...Thanks


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I think you should ask this in the el natural forum, where people more experienced with this type of tank can answer.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Moved to El-natural


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Well, here goes. I know some of this goes against The Natural Planted Tank concept.

(1) Test water for phosphates, nitrates, potassium to see if they are deficient or excessive. If deficient the Natural Planted Tank way is to increase fish, which you cannot do if you are overstocked, or increase feeding to increase nutrients. The non-natural planted tank is to directly add nitrates, phosphates, and potassium and test water until the nutrients are within what is considered normal for good plant growth. As per Rex Grigg, the parameters below would be considered ideal.

Nitrates 10-20ppm
Phosphates 1.0-2.0 ppm
Iron 0.1-1.0 ppm
Potassium 10-20 ppm

Of course the Natural Planted tank is no testing but visual observation for improvement.

(2) Non-natural planted tank continue with water changes and manually remove as much algae as possible.

(3) A UV sterilizer will resolve green water, so may Barley straw, which is considered a more natural treatment for green water. Natural Planted Tank way does not object to the use of a UV Sterilizer and you may alternatively want to consider running a diatom filter for a few days to get rid of algae spores and green water and to give the plants a leg up again. 
http://www.pondsplus.com/Infofiles/art03.htm
http://www.fishpondinfo.com/plants/barley.htm

(4) Rather than a blackout, I would try reduced photoperiod and perhaps a split photoperiod or noonburst photoperiod until the algae issue is resolved.

(5) I would also look into something like a nerite snail for short term and long term algae control. It may be more willing to consume the algae the others will not.

Although cloudy water could me caused my many things, for me sudden cloudiness is always a concern. This happened to me with a tank one time and I ignored it thinking that it would resolve itself. Before you knew it, the water took on a sewer type smell. Apparently some of the plants had rotted and the cloudy water was a sign that these needed to be removed. As I failed to remove them, they rotted so badly that I had to tear the whole tank down. Check and make sure that you have no rotting plants. If you do, remove them right away.

Just my 2 cents. I am still learning about NPT, so take it for what its worth and good luck.


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

I agree with everything Homer said except the following:



> Of course the Natural Planted tank is no testing but visual observation for improvement.


Testing is absolutely needed under certain circumstances (ie, when things go wrong and when first setting up a tank to make sure ammonia and nitrites are not present.) Other than that, yes, testing is not necessary for most types of aquarium setups. Testing is the only way to tell for sure what's going on in a tank when things go wrong and thus will give you an idea as to how to adjust.

Also, if you do a search for hair algae and green water in the el natural forum, you'll find many discussions on how best to approach these issues.

-ricardo


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## kenny1tothe6 (Aug 12, 2007)

I have heard that rosey barbs are really good at eating hair algea and your tank might be finished cycling....what is your light, co2, ferts whatever...they might help the plants....Oh yea.....When my water gets cloudy(never) I do a 50% water change!! hope this helps...


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## coopers (Jul 7, 2007)

I have also heard good things about rosy barbs, but I have also heard good things about flag fish so I thought I would try them out. I have tried water changes a bunch of times, but it just comes back. I do not use co2 or fertz, no filtration, and only run a power head with a pre-filter every now and then to stir up the water. I listed my lighting above. 

The thing that I am confused about is how I am getting all this algae (and even rapid snail population) when I literally UNDERFEED. I mean, I only feed about 3 times a week and only what they consume in less than a minute each time.

Anyway, I am gonna five the flags some more time to eat the algae, before I try anything un-el-natural. But I do appreciate the advice and will consider this if things do not shape up soon.


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## rohape (Feb 7, 2005)

This is just a thought, but I wonder if your underfeeding could be part of the issue. There aren't enough nutrients in the soil for your plants to pull from so they're not as strong. The plants aren't getting enough nutrients through the water column, partly because the algae is out competing with the plants for those nutrients. 

Maybe someone else can go off this idea too?

Snails ROCK!  I'm half tempted to take out all my fish and have snails only!


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