# Freshwater sump. Why not?



## cableguy69846 (Feb 7, 2011)

I have been thinking lately. Saltwater tanks have sumps with live rock in it, why not a freshwater tank? I know a lot of these planted tanks have a ton of circulation. What if you were to have a sump with "live rock" of sorts in it? Say, lava rock or texas holey rock or something like that, would it do the same thing? And with that, do you think you could run a refugium with say some stems and moss or something? Does anyone have any experience with this? If you do I would love to hear your take on it and see your setups if you have one.


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## geeks_15 (Dec 9, 2006)

I have a sump on my 75g high tech planted tank and I love it.

Mine serves 2 main funtions.
1. The sump houses equipment so it isn't seen in the main tank
2. The sump acts as my filter. I installed a utility sink in the small room behind my in-wall aquarium. Water flows into the sump, then through a sheet of poret foam, and then a submerged pump pumps the water back to the tank. I also have some bioballs and aquarium gravel on one side of the foam. That is my only filtration on this tank and it has been working great for a couple of years.

Since my sump is a working sink it provides a couple other benefits. When I do a water change I unplug the drain and the sump empties (about 15 gallons). Then I siphon water from the main tank into the unplugged sink until I have removed as much as I want. To refill the tank, I get the water temp correct (I have hot and cold water like a regular sink), plug the sink, and when the water gets high enough I start the pump. When the water level is correct I turn off the water. So no buckets or water hauling are involved in a water change. It is very quick and easy. 

There are a couple drawbacks.
1. The sump setup is noisier than a HOB filter or cannister filter. It isn't terrible, but it is noisier.
2. I probably lose some CO2 due to surface disturbance as water goes from the main tank down to the sump.

I think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

You could definitely add plants or rocks or other filter material to the sump if you wanted. I don't add plants because I add ferts to get my plants in the tank to grow well. It would be a great idea if you didn't want plants in the main tank for some reason. A large emersed plant would probably be the best for filter purpose since they can grow faster without adding CO2 to the water. I saw a fish room setup on a web page once where many tanks were plumbed together and a sump had a huge emersed plant (probably 4 feet tall) which helped with filtration. I've thought about trying to grow a tomato plant like this, but I've never tried it.

I have pictures of the setup (before the poret foam was installed) in my tank journal below in my signature.


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## cableguy69846 (Feb 7, 2011)

geeks_15 said:


> I have a sump on my 75g high tech planted tank and I love it.
> 
> Mine serves 2 main funtions.
> 1. The sump houses equipment so it isn't seen in the main tank
> ...


Wow. Thanks for the info man. I am gonna have to read your threads now. I wanna see this bad boy in action.

I never thought about the emersed plants to help with the nutrient export. I know some of the salt water guys use mongrove trees and upon reading a bit further into it, you can use it for fresh water too. I am thinking a planted sump would be better for cichlid owners who really can't have plants in the tank due to them being destroyed by the fish.


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## D9Vin (May 12, 2011)

Or maybe you could have a sump with goldfish in it to fertilize your planted aquarium! Haha, just playing.


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## londonloco (Sep 25, 2005)

Sump in a sink, that is just brilliant!


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## cableguy69846 (Feb 7, 2011)

D9Vin said:


> Or maybe you could have a sump with goldfish in it to fertilize your planted aquarium! Haha, just playing.


Lol. That could work if the sump were a pond.:lol::rofl:


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## D9Vin (May 12, 2011)

Pond sump...brilliant! That's definitely a 1 upper on the sink sump. Haha. But seriously, the sink sump is truly brilliant.


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## cableguy69846 (Feb 7, 2011)

D9Vin said:


> Pond sump...brilliant! That's definitely a 1 upper on the sink sump. Haha. But seriously, the sink sump is truly brilliant.


This is true.


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## geeks_15 (Dec 9, 2006)

> I never thought about the emersed plants to help with the nutrient export. I know some of the salt water guys use mongrove trees and upon reading a bit further into it, you can use it for fresh water too. I am thinking a planted sump would be better for cichlid owners who really can't have plants in the tank due to them being destroyed by the fish.


Mangroves could work. I have emersed philodendrons (probably the fastest growing and easiest of these 3) and lucky bamboo in an open top tank that also grow with relatively low light. All 3 of these grow fairly slowly, but also don't need much light to grow. You could put a bunch of them in a sump to increase the nutrient removal.

Another plant that would work in a sump, probably better than anything, is duckweed. It grows fast and is great at removing nutrients. I know it is scary to introduce duckweed to a tank, but with surface movement in the main tank it should keep the duckweed from spreading in the main tank. I net out duckweed from my aquariums and compost it. If it ever gets out of hand you could add the goldfish from the pond sump to eat it.


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## cableguy69846 (Feb 7, 2011)

geeks_15 said:


> Mangroves could work. I have emersed philodendrons (probably the fastest growing and easiest of these 3) and lucky bamboo in an open top tank that also grow with relatively low light. All 3 of these grow fairly slowly, but also don't need much light to grow. You could put a bunch of them in a sump to increase the nutrient removal.
> 
> Another plant that would work in a sump, probably better than anything, is duckweed. It grows fast and is great at removing nutrients. I know it is scary to introduce duckweed to a tank, but with surface movement in the main tank it should keep the duckweed from spreading in the main tank. I net out duckweed from my aquariums and compost it. If it ever gets out of hand you could add the goldfish from the pond sump to eat it.


That is what I am looking for. I know of a few plants that this would work well with. And you just gave me a few more. The sump would not be high light at all. But I think it would be really beneficial to have something like this. Especially if you keep cichlids, or have a high bioload in the main tank. As far as the duckweed goes, I think that may be a problem as I am looking at something with baffles in it that would allow the water to flow over them to the next part of the sump. However, if you designed it a bit differently, I am sure that would be an excellent plant to use. And like you said, if it gets too bad, you can throw a goldfish in there for a while to help get it under control again.

As far as the pond acting as a sump, right now that is just a dream for me, lol, but someday, maybe, it will be a reality.


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## D9Vin (May 12, 2011)

You better start a journal on that pond sump! But as my first serious post on this thread, any plant that could grow emersed would be great for this application. Particularly if you could position it to get some sunlight. You wouldn't be limited by co2, as the plant would use atmospheric co2 for photosynthesis, and if you could utilize sunlight, the only limiting factor would be nutrients, ie what you are trying to 'clean' out of the water. The trick would be designing it to where the plants could have a good grow medium/substrate and still achieve good water flow. This would definitely be more effective for aquaria where you couldn't have plants. I have considered using 'old' water from my non planted aquariums for water changes on my planted aquariums and dosing less nitrate and phosphate. I think for good sump growth you may need to toss in some micros and potassium from time to time.


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## cableguy69846 (Feb 7, 2011)

D9Vin said:


> You better start a journal on that pond sump! But as my first serious post on this thread, any plant that could grow emersed would be great for this application. Particularly if you could position it to get some sunlight. You wouldn't be limited by co2, as the plant would use atmospheric co2 for photosynthesis, and if you could utilize sunlight, the only limiting factor would be nutrients, ie what you are trying to 'clean' out of the water. The trick would be designing it to where the plants could have a good grow medium/substrate and still achieve good water flow. This would definitely be more effective for aquaria where you couldn't have plants. I have considered using 'old' water from my non planted aquariums for water changes on my planted aquariums and dosing less nitrate and phosphate. I think for good sump growth you may need to toss in some micros and potassium from time to time.


Lol. I will be the first to start that journal. I wonder if I could do it not.....?

Anyway. My biggest point behind this was to point out how it would benefit fish only tanks, where you cant have plants. I am thinking baffles in the sump, and a high turnover rate. Also you would probably benefit from using faster growing plants as they will suck up nutrients faster. This also could help the fight against algae. And I think, emersed growth would be key. You wouldn't want to inject a sump with CO2 just for the plants in it. I think they would take enough from the atmosphere, like you said, but they would also get plenty from fish. And sunlight would be a plus. If not that, maybe high light. And you are probably right on the micros. That would be easy though.

I wonder if anyone will put this to use and start a fuge on their tanks? Lol.


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## camypooo (Feb 4, 2015)

If you want to lower your cichlid tank maintenance id suggest looking into under gravel jets for heavy fish waist run a sump on an overflow with floss to break up chunks with a refugium on the bottom. Use either bio balls or flourite sand as a biological agent to cycle into nitrates and on your refugium use decent flourite bed and do a dwarf baby tears as a carpet keep in mind rooting plants only consume through the substrate and for your column id do hornswort it doesnt root so you can put it in bulk in your refugium and grows pretty easy. Either way to get good nutrient consumption you should run good lights and probably co2 24/7. Id run an army of amano shrimp to eat dead plant matter and maybe a few siamese algae eaters. Id also do an army of malaysian trumpet snails to control detritus and airate your substrate. Running that setup the only maintenance you should need is top offs.


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## Yo-han (Oct 15, 2010)

I'm building a sump on my new tank. I think as long as you make the overflow silent, it won't make more noise compared to a canister pumping the same amount of water. The only drawback I can think of is indeed CO2 loss. I'll seal my sump and this way this is minimized and will greatly outway the benifits!

The drawing nutrients away like a refugium won't work for a planted tank. You want the nutrients in your tank. For a cichlid tank or something a freshwater refugium would work great!


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