# Are these Apisto. agassizi?



## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

The latest news is my Apistos are breeding and I am not so certain these are _A. agassizi _anymore. There are about 50 - 60 eggs (as opposed to 150 that _A. agassizi_ lay) and the male's caudel fin does not have the typical spade-shape, rather it is pointed at the ends. Here are some quick shots:

*Male*

















*Female*

















*"cave" made of a shallow dug-out and Anubias root*









The pics are not great quality, but should be clear enough for an ID. Any thoughts?

-Dave


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Dave,

If you got these from us then they are probably A. cacatuouides. A local variety. I don't think it's possible to identify them further than saying they are from the cacatuoides group.

They came from Colombia. I asked some European folks for help with the identification. Also wrote to the Dr. guy from apistogrammaidiots.com but no response.

Nimsley from theplantedtank.net has good pictures of them too:

__
https://flic.kr/p/4158878198

Be sure to browse all her pictures using the arrows on the right.

Her Apistos also spawned. But I don't remember her saying that the eggs were red. That's why I ask if you got the fish from us.

--Nikolay


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## Nymsley (Mar 24, 2009)

Wow, crazy egg color o.o

Mine were a custard yellow and there were about 50 at the beginning:


This is the most recent pic of my dominant male, Poldo (yes, I did give him a person name  )


I have better pics of the lyre-shaped tail but haven't uploaded them yet.
I also got another male which developed subdominant colors. Its been a couple of weeks since I gave him a tank of his own. His colors keep changing but hes clearly different from our males. I have pics of him in his subdom colors in my flickr photostream but I'm haven't gotten pics of him after his move to the new tank. I'll try and see if I can get him to be less camera shy later.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Niko, yes these are ones I got from you guys. Nymsley's male and female look identical to my guys, so I would assume they are indeed in the caucatoides group. I wonder if the red eggs just mean they are sterile? The fish are still very young, so maybe that's a possibility?

I checked out your photos further Nymsley. Thanks for posting!


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## Nymsley (Mar 24, 2009)

I've read that the red color is a good indicator of _A. cacatuoides_ eggs being fertile. I didn't notice any hint of redness in mine but they did hatch so I have no idea what the color is supposed to mean.


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## EFM (Dec 29, 2009)

the "male" is a cacatoide and the "female" is an agassizi


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

The male and female are both cactuoides. The belly stripes and body shape of the female rules her out as being an agassizi.

Egg colour often has a lot to do with the food they have been fed while forming the eggs. If they are infertile they tend to go a cloudy off-white colour.

As the females usually has to raise babies all on her own in this species you will probably find the cardinals eat a lot of the fry - they are excellent fry predators.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Ed, you may be on to something regarding the feeding. I've been using a pelletized blend called "Micro-Crab" lately and it is REALLY red in color. It probably has some "color enhancing" stuff in it. I also supplement with frozen foods (blood worms, daphnia, and baby brine shrimp).

This morning all the eggs are gone. I didn't see any babies, but I didn't look too hard either. They are either being hid by "mama" or the eggs were not viable.

Interesting thing is that my water is everyting that Apistos are supposed to hate as far as breeding. Hard Houston tap water, no filter on the tank (just a powerhead for flow), natural soil substrate. I really never expected them to breed.


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## Nymsley (Mar 24, 2009)

ed, I have found that the male doesn't help the female in regards to shepherding the fry but mine did spend most of his time keeping the tetras in one corner of the tank. Fun to watch though the tetra that lost half his tail would say otherwise.

Thanks for the info about the egg color. Makes a lot of sense.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

This website helped shed light for me as to why they are so "at home" in my tank conditions. Obviously mine and Nymsley's are not one of the hybridized color varients, but the fins tell the story well enough.

http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/Apistogramma_cacatuoides.php


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Cacs are pretty adaptable. The female may have recycled the eggs if they weren't viable (either due to your water or some other reason) or if she felt they weren't going to survive as they were so exposed. Try giving her a small cave an you may have more luck. The best ones I have used are clay water saucers for plant pots with a hole cut in just large enough for the female to get in. The male then sits at the door, squirts milt in and fans it at the eggs. The female often walls herself in until the fry are free-swimming.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Awesome thread.

Dave, regarding your Houston water, I'm guessing that the sub-substrate your using also helps to buffer against the water you have.

Ed, I never thought about exposure as a problem, so I may try something similar. My A.macmasteri's bred and the eggs disappeared. Because the large Amazon sword leaf that they were on was destroyed I figured the bristlenose pleco had a scuffle with "mama" and ate the eggs. I'm going to put a black background on my tank as soon as it comes in (found some not-so-cheap online) and see if that helps the females feel more comfortable. If I can hide a "cave" structure in the back somewhere behind the swords I may do that as well.

Hah! I just realized I'll never see my black mollies with that black background. Oh well, at least I'll see those tiny red strips on the males' dorsals still.


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## Nymsley (Mar 24, 2009)

I gave my apistos a couple of coconut caves to choose from but the eggs were laid some distance away between some large rocks. Maybe the cave location is something the female learns about later? As far as I know, they were too young to have spawned before.


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