# is it a good idea to mix different carpet plants



## bhg (Feb 26, 2007)

I am setting up my 12g nano, is it good idea to mix me marlicea, HC, and glosso together (may not totally mixed, but more like different areas). How does it look when you have them mixed?

A diagram is as following attachment


----------



## FacePlanted (Aug 13, 2007)

I think having them mixed, maybe just a little, would give the areas a natural appearance. But beware that one might completely overgrow the other, and choke it out. Still, I think that if there were a little mixing at the boundaries of the different types, it would look natural and pretty cool. I think Amano uses this technique. I have seen him cover it in one of the aquajournal issues--mixing of the undergrowth/groundcover.

-Mike B-


----------



## mikenas102 (Feb 8, 2006)

The glosso will wind up choking out the HC. The glosso leaves are bigger and the growth rate of glosso is at least 3X as fast as HC. You can make it work if you use your hardscape to create boundaries and kind of pen everything in. Still, you'll have to watch those runners. They can sneak out on you pretty quickly.


----------



## Jessie (Apr 23, 2007)

I agree with the Mikes  Mixing can add a really neat natural effect and create some interesting depth. I'm actually experimenting with HC and Marsiliea in my tank.


----------



## travis (Oct 5, 2004)

I've tried Glosso and E. triandra before and found that E. triandra will even outpace Glosso in growth rate, eventually choking it out. I think Marsilea and HC would work well together as they both have relatively slow growth rates and are unlikely smother each other out because of their size differences.


----------



## Chuppy (Aug 5, 2007)

I tried HC and E.triandra and i can say that the triandra was overtaking the area choking my HC.... that was.. until excel killed it lol


----------



## pasd (Aug 26, 2007)

Almost any foreground plant will outgrow HC. I've had a HC and U. graminofolia foreground and the U. graminofolia quickly outgrew the HC, and they were grown in aquasoil.


----------



## krisw (Jan 31, 2005)

I definitely like the look of U. graminofolia popping out in-between a glosso foreground. But, as mentioned, it's nearly impossible to maintain long term, and you probably need to get the Utricularia established before planting the glosso.


----------



## Intros (Apr 26, 2006)

Maybe a more stable and "tolerant" combination could be an established carpet of Glossostigma with some E. tennelus, the last as a sparingly accent. It creates also a natural look and I believe it was quite often used in Amano's aquariums in the past.


----------



## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

I think I'll voice the minority opinion. I've tried it and I don't think it's a good idea to mix different carpet plants. The problem is not a short-term problem; things can look pretty good in the short term. It's a problem in the long term. Maintaining the carpet for more than a few months can be very difficult. If you have a lot of time and patience for the job then you might make it work.

If you let different carpet plants grow together then their runners get tangled. Different plants require different kinds and frequency of care, but when the plants are all intergrown you can't do maintenance on one kind of plant without ripping up and replanting big chunks of the carpet.

It is practical to keep different carpet plants in different parts of a tank, but keeping them in adjoining areas is another problem. Remember that some carpet plants can extend runners several centimeters in a week. If you are going to keep adjacent parts from growing into each other you need to get into the tank, cut and remove runners very frequently.

In the long run if you don't do the maintenance then the tallest of the carpet plants will probably win out; if you do the maintenance then the plant that can be uprooted and replanted most successfully will probably win out.


Roger MIller


----------



## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Last year there was a guy in Hawaii who used to sell me HC and H. micranthemoides mixed together in 4" squares. It ended up being mostly HM with the HC getting suffocated.

I agree, mixing them together can be problematic, however you can have more than one foreground plant in different groups or sections within the foreground/middleground. You simply prune them to prevent them from intermingling, or even separate the groups with rocks or wood, or some other natural barrier. The plants may jump the barrier if overgrown, but it can be contained with regular maitenance. This is what the Dutch do in their traditional aquariums.

Amano mixes taller grass like plants with very short carpet plants, but he does not allow the grass like plants to cover more than very sporatic areas.


----------



## Yoshi (Apr 7, 2007)

Robert Hudson said:


> Amano mixes taller grass like plants with very short carpet plants, but he does not allow the grass like plants to cover more than very sporatic areas.


I've seen countless tanks done by Amano that have hairgrass in the background with a glosso/riccia/hc foreground. I don't understand how he is able to keep fast growing carpeting plants such as hairgrass from extending its roots outwards to spread to different areas. I had my hairgrass go insane when I had it planted with HC, the DHG was simply too annoying to deal with since it grew EVERYWHERE. Initially I planted the HC and DHG separately but after a few months things would just all mesh together, ultimately creating a very messy feeling to the tank. I eventually ended up yanking out the DHG and replanting the tank w/remaining HC.

I would believe that it would only be a matter of time before small bunches of something like dwarf hairgrass planted in a few "sporadic areas" starts growing invasively in the tank. Does Amano use some sort of plastic barrier underneath the substrate to prevent the roots from extending? Some of his aquascapes don't have any physical barriers that I could distinguish (like rock or other devices) to prevent this. Any ideas?


----------



## FacePlanted (Aug 13, 2007)

My only thought would be CONSTANT maintainence

-mike b-


----------



## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Yoshi said:


> Does Amano use some sort of plastic barrier underneath the substrate to prevent the roots from extending? Some of his aquascapes don't have any physical barriers that I could distinguish (like rock or other devices) to prevent this. Any ideas?


I'm not sure which of Amano's aquascapes you have in mind. The photos in his books were of aquariums that were set up or modified for the photo. Some of them include features that can't be maintained. The intergrown plants in the photos you saw may have been placed there within days before the photo was taken.

More recently Amano seems to stress that aquascapes should be maintainable.

Roger


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

It's entirely possible to mix foreground plants if you're willing to put the time into maintenance. I wouldn't go so far as to mix species with very similar growth habits like Glosso and Elatine but mixing two different type plants such as Glosso and E. tennelus is doable. I found the secret to maintaining the mixture is to regularly cut out a swath between the two plantings and let them grow back together again. Sometimes the tenellus would grow faster and other times the glosso would fill in more quickly. The dynamic between the two was interesting to watch over time. When it came time for photographing the tank all I would have to do was trim some runners remove select individual tenellus until the "right" balance was struck. 

On the topic of Amano's older work 90% of those photos were a one shot deal taken at the peak of the tank's artistic impact. If you can find some of the time-lapse segments the eventual domination of one species happened very often. In fact, he referred to it a couple times in various places. 

In the end it all comes down to your personal desire and inclination to do tedious and detailed removal and care of the plants you've chosen. A mixed carpet/foreground planting could be a lot like a Bonsai where little bits are done often to carefully sculpt and give the impression of age. 

Then again, it could also be a major pain in the neck (from all that time hunched over a tank).


----------



## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

> The photos in his books were of aquariums that were set up or modified for the photo. Some of them include features that can't be maintained.


I can't believe you still think that! I thought that myth had been long debunked! Nice to see you around here Roger. Its been a long time










This was done by Jordan Reece. This is what I mean by limited areas. You have small clumps of Sagittaria surrounded by glossostigma and Riccia. When the grass sends out runners, you cut them off


----------

