# Fish Tank Water Quality



## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

I just built my first 5 gallon natural fish tank with soil, gravel, and plants for my betta fish Poppy. I've been testing the water quality with the "API 5 in 1" test strips, which my local aquarium store says they use. The results in both my current 2.6 gallon tank (where my fish currently is) and my new 5 gallon tank (where I will be moving my fish to) have consistently been as follows:

NO3 = O
NO2 = O
pH = 6.0 (sometimes up to 6.3)
KH = 0 (sometimes up to 20)
GH = 0 (sometimes up to 30)

It looks like the pH, KH, and GH could be higher for my betta. It seems the recommendation is more water changes in order to favorably change these numbers, but I also tested my tap water and the results have been the same as the tanks (6 pH, 0 KH, 0 GH).

I'm new to all this and it seems like trying to change these markers may be a risky move. Any suggestions on this before my move my betta to the new tank? Thanks in advance!

BTW, I'm using Seachem Prime for water conditioner.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Your water is pretty much rainwater 
You'll need to add a little Calcium & Magnesium for the plants.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> Your water is pretty much rainwater
> You'll need to add a little Calcium & Magnesium for the plants.


Thanks! Do you by chance have a product recommendation? I see some additives that contain those, I'm just not sure which way to go...

For instance: Seachem - Betta Basics or Seachem - Neutral Regulator


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## Noahlikesfish (Apr 17, 2021)

Crushed coral


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## Noahlikesfish (Apr 17, 2021)

Seachem bad outside of prime IME in a simple tank you don’t want to dose a lot so you should just use something like crushed coral or baking soda because it lasts long and is cheap. You also should get water buckets and put them in a warm area so they evaporate, after they evaporate in half use them for water


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Seachem Equilibrium

Or you can make your own which would be cheaper in the long run.
You can buy Calcium Chloride, Magnesium Sulfate.
Calcium Dosing Procedure

You can add crushed coral/lime to the substrate but that will only increase Calcium & kH, slowly.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> Seachem Equilibrium
> 
> Or you can make your own which would be cheaper in the long run.
> You can buy Calcium Chloride, Magnesium Sulfate.
> ...


Thanks!  Right now I like the idea of buying a product. In time I'd like to move towards DIY, but for now it seems too complicated. Will the Seachem Equilibrium take care of all the issues, do you think (low pH, KH, and GH)?


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

They recommend Seachem - Alkaline Buffer For ph and KH,


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

KristenBellevueWA said:


> Thanks! Do you by chance have a product recommendation? I see some additives that contain those, I'm just not sure which way to go...
> 
> For instance: Seachem - Betta Basics or Seachem - Neutral Regulator


If you are going to growing plants, you will need to add calcium and magnesium and potassium to the water. You should have GH above 4-5. The two products you mention are for adjusting pH. They will not add *any* calcium and magnesium to the water. Useless. You need to look for products that say they will increase water hardness and/or they contain calcium. SeaChem Equilibrium will add Mg, Ca, K, etc, but I don't particularly like it for soil-containing tanks. Over time, if used a lot and for sustained use, it can cause problems. Product contains a *ton* of sulfates that soil bacteria will convert to toxic H2S. Kill plant roots. However, a one-time dose of it is probably better than nothing. Recipe in my book (p. 87) avoids this sulfate problem, because I use calcium chloride and not calcium sulfate..

_If you just want something simple, I would try Wonder Shells. Cost for a Weco Wonder Shell for a 5 gal tank is $1.67 from petproducts.com. Often advertised as a water conditioner, but it's also for increasing water hardness. Clue is that it lists calcium and magnesium as ingredients. Rave reviews (176) on Amazon. _

2/8/21 APC post from JatCar95 on Wonder Shells: I've been experimenting (on my single tank, so not very statistical or scientific) with Wonder Shells for a month now. I have very soft, 0 GH water from the tap, so I want an easy way to supply hardness to my water. I have successfully used Ms. Walstad's recipe from the book in the past with success, but wanted an easier way than measuring out specific chemicals (it's not that hard, I'm mostly just lazy).

Enter Wonder Shells. I've heard them mentioned a couple times on the forum and seen them online, but hadn't really considered them before for some reason. I bought a couple from American Aquarium Products (the official seller) to try. The premise is you just plop it in the aquarium and it dissolves slowly to supply calcium, magnesium, etc. More info here at their website: (NOTE: I am NOT using the medicated ones, just regular)

Anyway, here are the results. Tank is 6.5gal for reference:

Jan 6 2021: GH = 9, 1 small shell added
Jan 7: GH = 9
Jan 14: 30% water change, GH = 7 (after change), new shell added as previous had dissolved to 1/4 original size
Jan 15: GH=10
Jan 26: New shell added, previous one 1/5 original size
Feb 8: GH=31

Turns out, they really do raise hardness! Seeing the jump from 7GH to 10GH in one day should have clued me in on this. I am not adding any more shells, as 31 seems too high. My intuition was that the shells would only dissolve until hardness hit a certain level, then stop; however, all three have dissolved over the course of a couple weeks, which makes me think that hypothesis is not correct. Looking back now, I should have done some more regular measurements, and definitely measured before adding the last shell. I may do a water change now to lower the hardness, although all of my tank inhabitants (betta, rasbora espei, MTS, RCS, bladder snails) seem happy as can be, and the plants are growing great. In fact, the snails always climb all over the shells when I first add them in.

Would love to hear if other people have had similar experiences to me. It seems this is a fairly straightforward and cheap way to add necessary plant nutrients to the water column.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> If you are going to growing plants, you will need to add calcium and magnesium and potassium to the water. You should have GH above 4-5. The two products you mention are for adjusting pH. They will not add *any* calcium and magnesium to the water. Useless. You need to look for products that say they will increase water hardness and/or they contain calcium. SeaChem Equilibrium will add Mg, Ca, K, etc, but I don't particularly like it for soil-containing tanks. Over time, if used a lot and for sustained use, it can cause problems. Product contains a *ton* of sulfates that soil bacteria will convert to toxic H2S. Kill plant roots. However, a one-time dose of it is probably better than nothing. Recipe in my book (p. 87) avoids this sulfate problem, because I use calcium chloride and not calcium sulfate..
> 
> _If you just want something simple, I would try Wonder Shells. Cost for a Weco Wonder Shell for a 5 gal tank is $1.67 from petproducts.com. Often advertised as a water conditioner, but it's also for increasing water hardness. Clue is that it lists calcium and magnesium as ingredients. Rave reviews (176) on Amazon. _
> 
> ...


Fabulous! Thank you. I will order the wonder shells.


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## Noahlikesfish (Apr 17, 2021)

I tried wonder shells idk why and they don’t work for me, they are good algae cleaners but that’s it imo


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

Noahlikesfish said:


> I tried wonder shells idk why and they don’t work for me, they are good algae cleaners but that’s it imo


Thanks, I ordered some that will be here on Tuesday. Will give them a try!


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## ronnie (Feb 26, 2021)

Being from the same area as Kristen, I’ve experienced some similar issues; especially lately.

I have just spent a while reading the various articles on Americana Aquarium and I’m reallly intrigued by it.

I just purchased some of the small shells and will keep a log of my parameter readings. I’ll then share my experiences as well.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Sounds good! So many people have this problem and it would be nice to have an easy fix.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

ronnie said:


> Being from the same area as Kristen, I’ve experienced some similar issues; especially lately.
> 
> I have just spent a while reading the various articles on Americana Aquarium and I’m reallly intrigued by it.
> 
> I just purchased some of the small shells and will keep a log of my parameter readings. I’ll then share my experiences as well.


I found this video from Aquarium Co Op in Seattle: 



. 

At the end of the video she talks about using the wonder shells for our soft water here in Seattle!


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

KristenBellevueWA said:


> I found this video from Aquarium Co Op in Seattle:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, wow. That youtube vid was quite helpful. Turns out I've been misinterpreting my KH and GH results. Apparently, a 5 dKH or dGH is perfectly fine.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

Noahlikesfish said:


> That’s aquarium co op, not a smart guy. father fish swears by hard alkaline water for plants and fish 70 years experience is more valid then the guy who sells snake oil for a living IMHO. Here’s a vid of how I test my water, optimum taste is basically dirty paper that leaves a chalk taste in your mouth, you can drink river water as a example, what I described is about 7-8 ph more like 7-7.5 and no nitrate and very hard water


lol! Your frogbit looks great.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

KristenBellevueWA said:


> I found this video from Aquarium Co Op in Seattle:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's a good video. So many people mistakenly assume that a high pH means that they have hardwater. That is very misleading. For example, pH can be very high due to municipal water treatment, etc. Water calcium is the one major plant nutrient that IMHO gets neglected and lost in the technical minutiae. Plants may turn yellow without nitrogen or iron, but they will still survive. In contrast, without calcium in the water, many plants will die (my book, p.114, Table VII-6). The first few seconds of the video shows this melting away of plants in Seattle water. Ultra-soft water is a common problem in Seattle, New York, Raleigh, etc. Making sure that the GH is above a certain level is critical for planted tanks. 

Thanks for posting video link.


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## Chris. (Dec 22, 2008)

KristenBellevueWA said:


> I just built my first 5 gallon natural fish tank with soil, gravel, and plants for my betta fish Poppy. I've been testing the water quality with the "API 5 in 1" test strips, which my local aquarium store says they use. The results in both my current 2.6 gallon tank (where my fish currently is) and my new 5 gallon tank (where I will be moving my fish to) have consistently been as follows:
> 
> NO3 = O
> NO2 = O
> ...


get some crushed coral and a fine filter media bag. Rinse it well and add it to your filter. It will regulate ph up to 7.2 but if you inject co2, it will be lower. It will also increase your GH, KH and calcium and probably some other trace minerals. All of my tanks did so much better after adding this to them. It only takes a few tablespoons. Maybe less for a 5G.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

I put a bit of wonder shell in my fish's 2.6 gallon tank today, and the PH is now at exactly 7, and the rest of the markers are good as well! They say to only put a tiny bit in a planted tank. I'll continue to add more of the wonder shell as needed. I also added some to my snails' 1 gallon tank. At least they are all good for now! 

However, my new 5 gallon tank's markers are not right. I want to transfer the two snails and the betta to this bigger tank when it's ready. It's been two weeks and the nitrates and nitrites are still high, and the PH is also on the high side. I can see algae growing in tank. The soil instructions said to wait at least two weeks before adding fish. The soil had fertilizer in it, although I've since realized I don't need that. I added some fish food to the tank today. Is this normal cycling, do you think? Should I be doing water changes with this empty tank? At least most of the plants in this tank are looking good. I added some wonder shell to it today as well.


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## ronnie (Feb 26, 2021)

So when I started my 12g a couple months ago, the water conditions were looking great. Then a few weeks in, ammonia and the Nite’s shot up.

It can be part of the process. I did some water changes which kinda helped. But when the plants began truly growing, everything balanced out. In fact, when I was having trouble with it I increased the amount of plants by 20-30%. The more I got in there (plant and snail wise) the better it started looking/acting. 

Also! I started my Wonder Shell log today!


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## Chris. (Dec 22, 2008)

KristenBellevueWA said:


> I put a bit of wonder shell in my fish's 2.6 gallon tank today, and the PH is now at exactly 7, and the rest of the markers are good as well! They say to only put a tiny bit in a planted tank. I'll continue to add more of the wonder shell as needed. I also added some to my snails' 1 gallon tank. At least they are all good for now!
> 
> However, my new 5 gallon tank's markers are not right. I want to transfer the two snails and the betta to this bigger tank when it's ready. It's been two weeks and the nitrates and nitrites are still high, and the PH is also on the high side. I can see algae growing in tank. The soil instructions said to wait at least two weeks before adding fish. The soil had fertilizer in it, although I've since realized I don't need that. I added some fish food to the tank today. Is this normal cycling, do you think? Should I be doing water changes with this empty tank? At least most of the plants in this tank are looking good. I added some wonder shell to it today as well.


With a new tank you need to do large water changes often until the parameters stabilize. If you have an established tank, try squeezing or swishing the filter media into the water of the new tank. This adds tons of beneficial bacteria to jump start the colony. Always make sure to use a good dechlorinator or the chlorinated water can kill the bacteria that regulates your ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Sometimes tanks take a long time to get going well. If you notice a high amount of ammonia, you can dose some dechlorinator since most of them neutralize ammonia for about 24 hours so it's not toxic to fish. I have always used Prime and couldn't be happier with it. Well maybe if it didn't smell like sulfer...

If you're using test strips to test the parameters, I suggest just getting an API master kit. The sciencey method takes longer, but is kinda fun and give you a chance to monitor the aquarium more. It's a little pricey, but you get what you pay for. More accurate readings. Test strips are super unreliable. I've tested them side by side with liquid testing and they're not even close on the nitrates and nitrites. They are better than nothing though. Patience is a big part of setting up a new tank.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

ronnie said:


> So when I started my 12g a couple months ago, the water conditions were looking great. Then a few weeks in, ammonia and the Nite’s shot up.
> 
> It can be part of the process. I did some water changes which kinda helped. But when the plants began truly growing, everything balanced out. In fact, when I was having trouble with it I increased the amount of plants by 20-30%. The more I got in there (plant and snail wise) the better it started looking/acting.
> 
> Also! I started my Wonder Shell log today!


That's great to know, thanks! The plant store sold me some plants with already browning leaves, so I need to clean those out. Maybe I can add more plants. Hopefully the wonder shells will help. And I'll start doing water changes. Yay for wonder shells!


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

Chris. said:


> With a new tank you need to do large water changes often until the parameters stabilize. If you have an established tank, try squeezing or swishing the filter media into the water of the new tank. This adds tons of beneficial bacteria to jump start the colony. Always make sure to use a good dechlorinator or the chlorinated water can kill the bacteria that regulates your ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Sometimes tanks take a long time to get going well. If you notice a high amount of ammonia, you can dose some dechlorinator since most of them neutralize ammonia for about 24 hours so it's not toxic to fish. I have always used Prime and couldn't be happier with it. Well maybe if it didn't smell like sulfer...
> 
> If you're using test strips to test the parameters, I suggest just getting an API master kit. The sciencey method takes longer, but is kinda fun and give you a chance to monitor the aquarium more. It's a little pricey, but you get what you pay for. More accurate readings. Test strips are super unreliable. I've tested them side by side with liquid testing and they're not even close on the nitrates and nitrites. They are better than nothing though. Patience is a big part of setting up a new tank.


Thank you! I'll start the large water changes today in my 5 gallon tank, along with the Prime.

My current 2.6 gallon tank doesn't have a filter, just gravel and plants. I'm just doing a lot of water changes with Prime while I wait to put my fish in the new 5 gallon tank.

I'll consider the API master kit, thanks for the info. I'm doing a lot of testing of the water of my current tank because I worry about my fish. The water is like a science experiment!


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## ronnie (Feb 26, 2021)

KristenBellevueWA said:


> That's great to know, thanks! The plant store sold me some plants with already browning leaves, so I need to clean those out. Maybe I can add more plants. Hopefully the wonder shells will help. And I'll start doing water changes. Yay for wonder shells!


I can’t remember what your tank is stocked with, so excuse me if I’m repeating anything.

When it comes to dying leaf matter, this is where shrimp/snails really begin to do their work in our little ecosystems. Ramshorn snails are particularly good at eating decay and dying leaf matter. (I have 4 or 5 different kinds of snails in my tanks. Haha, sounds crazy, but they all have their individual purpose).

Then the shrimp break down matter even further. Which makes the “waste” more accessible to the bacteria in the substrate/soil.

You have a bette tank if I remember correctly. So shrimp may not work (expensive snacks for your betta!), but I’d throw in some snail friends.

I have some anacharis I’d be happy to give to you. They’re fast growers.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

ronnie said:


> I can’t remember what your tank is stocked with, so excuse me if I’m repeating anything.
> 
> When it comes to dying leaf matter, this is where shrimp/snails really begin to do their work in our little ecosystems. Ramshorn snails are particularly good at eating decay and dying leaf matter. (I have 4 or 5 different kinds of snails in my tanks. Haha, sounds crazy, but they all have their individual purpose).
> 
> ...


I have snails, they're in a small tank waiting for my new 5 gallon tank to be ready.  I really love animals, so I wouldn't be happy if they died. I have a mystery snail and a tiny nerite snail, which will go with my betta in the 5 gallon tank. Hopefully doing water changes, and using Prime and the wonder shell will help! I cleaned out the tank of the dead plant debris yesterday, and I'll do some testing again. Thanks for the offer of the snails, though - since I only have a 5 gallon tank, I think I have enough. And I look forward to them helping my tank in the future!


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## Chris. (Dec 22, 2008)

KristenBellevueWA said:


> I have snails, they're in a small tank waiting for my new 5 gallon tank to be ready.  I really love animals, so I wouldn't be happy if they died. I have a mystery snail and a tiny nerite snail, which will go with my betta in the 5 gallon tank. Hopefully doing water changes, and using Prime and the wonder shell will help! I cleaned out the tank of the dead plant debris yesterday, and I'll do some testing again. Thanks for the offer of the snails, though - since I only have a 5 gallon tank, I think I have enough. And I look forward to them helping my tank in the future!


I've heard that Bettas might nip at the antennae and stuff on mystery snails, so just keep an eye out for that.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

Chris. said:


> I've heard that Bettas might nip at the antennae and stuff on mystery snails, so just keep an eye out for that.


Thanks! I read that, AFTER I got the snail. She's quite the character, probably because she does come out of her shell quite a bit. There's not much going on with the tiny nerite snail. lol So I'm hoping I can keep her.

I'm going to add the snails to the 5 gallon tank first, and then put the betta in afterwards. My betta is bold and friendly, and she doesn't seem to be threatened easily from what I've seen so far. I'll be keeping a close eye out to see how it goes!


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

If you want baby mystery snails, get another one. I think there are male & female sexes for them. You'll have to learn the difference. 
They don't live too long so have a next generation would nice.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> If you want baby mystery snails, get another one. I think there are male & female sexes for them. You'll have to learn the difference.
> They don't live too long so have a next generation would nice.


I love the idea of snail babies! That may be my next project...


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

Today my new 5 gallon tank finally has some good stats! And I've had the wonder shells in there for a while now.

Ammonia 0
Nitrates 0
Nitrites 0
pH 7
KH 40 (could be higher?)
GH 40

For weeks my nitrites have been at .5 or 1. Here's what my tank looks like now, after some plants died, others were removed (anubias), and I added some more. I couldn't keep the gravel layer even with all the plant rearranging, I hope that's okay.










Should I wait to ensure these water parameters stay the same over the next week, or move the animals in right away?

Also, how should I transfer my snails and betta to the new tank, given they are in tanks with different water parameters (e.g., pH of 6 instead of 7)? The new water is better for them, but it could also be a shock. Half an hour in a plastic bag doesn't seem like enough of a transition!

Lastly, how long should the snails live in the new tank before I transfer my betta? I don't want my betta to be territorial.

Lots of questions, I know!


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

KristenBellevueWA said:


> KH 40 (could be higher?)
> GH 40


Is this measured in dKH/dGH? If so, that's quite high! The wonder shells look to have been successful, but I wouldn't add any more. Interested to hear others opinions - is 40dGH too high? Mine is currently sitting around 30dGH, but I feel like a more reasonable target would be 15-20. That said, all my critters seem happy and healthy at 30, so maybe 40 isn't a problem? The plants will certainly like it.

In any case, make sure you drip acclimate the betta when you add it. It's probably coming from softer water, so it will need some time to adjust. If you're concerned about the snails making it, you could drip acclimate them as well...although I usually just toss them in after floating the bag for a while. Maybe start by adding the snails and continuing to monitor the parameters, and if everything looks good move the betta in a few days later?


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

jatcar95 said:


> Is this measured in dKH/dGH? If so, that's quite high! The wonder shells look to have been successful, but I wouldn't add any more. Interested to hear others opinions - is 40dGH too high? Mine is currently sitting around 30dGH, but I feel like a more reasonable target would be 15-20. That said, all my critters seem happy and healthy at 30, so maybe 40 isn't a problem? The plants will certainly like it.
> 
> In any case, make sure you drip acclimate the betta when you add it. It's probably coming from softer water, so it will need some time to adjust. If you're concerned about the snails making it, you could drip acclimate them as well...although I usually just toss them in after floating the bag for a while. Maybe start by adding the snails and continuing to monitor the parameters, and if everything looks good move the betta in a few days later?


I'm using an API chart to interpret the results. I use their test strips. It says KH and GH shouldn't be zero:










Hmmm... You are supposed to replace the wonder shells after they dissolve in the tank. I bought a bunch of them! 

Thanks, I will drip acclimate the snails first! Then the betta a few days later.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

Ah, I see, I think it's measured in PPM? If that's the case, it's not very high at all. 40ppm ~= 2.2dGH I think. So you could probably keep using them for a while. 


KristenBellevueWA said:


> Hmmm... You are supposed to replace the wonder shells after they dissolve in the tank. I bought a bunch of them!


I did this too! Right after I bought a big batch, I tested my hardness...and it was definitely high enough that I didn't want to add more! The Wonder Shell folks talk about adding them regularly to maintain some electron chemistry thing that I don't understand...but I half suspect this is just marketing to get you to buy more. Besides, they also recommend doing water changes regularly (which removes the excess hardess), which I'm not interested in. Anyway, I too am sitting on enough Wonder Shells to last me for the foreseeable future


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## ronnie (Feb 26, 2021)

Concerning the wonder shells, I’m still working on my own log and experiment. I saw a little increase in GH, but nothing outstanding.

However, I experienced explosive plant growth in some species after the shell had been in there a few days. (This is where I’m wondering if the ion exchange and balance that they claim comes into play).

I’ll share more later. I want to run another test that measures the levels of other compounds and elements in the water.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

ronnie said:


> Concerning the wonder shells, I’m still working on my own log and experiment. I saw a little increase in GH, but nothing outstanding.
> 
> However, I experienced explosive plant growth in some species after the shell had been in there a few days. (This is where I’m wondering if the ion exchange and balance that they claim comes into play).
> 
> I’ll share more later. I want to run another test that measures the levels of other compounds and elements in the water.


Interesting! I would say they raised the GH in all the tanks I put them in. And possibly the pH too.

I'd like to raise my KH more, sometimes that's really low. I think they've helped some with that.

I know my snails need the calcium from the wonder shells, so I'll use them for that regardless.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

jatcar95 said:


> Ah, I see, I think it's measured in PPM? If that's the case, it's not very high at all. 40ppm ~= 2.2dGH I think. So you could probably keep using them for a while.


Yeah, the test strip versus liquid test differential is confusing. With API, the liquid test is measured in dKH or dGH but the test strips are measured in ppm. For the better part of this year I thought I had a GH/KH of 5 ppm. Thank goodness someone posted a YouTube video on the liquid test that set me straight.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

KristenBellevueWA said:


> I'd like to raise my KH more, sometimes that's really low. I think they've helped some with that.


Wonder Shells don't help with KH, they only add GH. For KH you can add baking soda, or something like Seachem Alkaline Buffer (which is just fancy baking soda). I believe the dosing was around 1tsp baking soda per 10 gallons.



ronnie said:


> I saw a little increase in GH, but nothing outstanding.


I'm looking forward to seeing your results  I didn't do a good job of regularly recording my parameters after introducing Wonder Shells, but I definitely saw a large GH increase after completely dissolving three small shells in my 6.5 gallon (like from around 10dGH to 30dGH). But obviously this was a one-off situation, and I had already been messing with my hardness w/ other recipes before that. If I started over now, I'd probably do more regular testing starting from fresh water. Regarding the ion exchange, it would be interesting to run some tests on the effectiveness of this as well. They claim only the "fresh" shells have the charged ions, so maybe testing stale vs fresh shells and their effects on fish/plants?


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

jatcar95 said:


> Wonder Shells don't help with KH, they only add GH. For KH you can add baking soda, or something like Seachem Alkaline Buffer (which is just fancy baking soda). I believe the dosing was around 1tsp baking soda per 10 gallons.
> 
> 
> I'm looking forward to seeing your results  I didn't do a good job of regularly recording my parameters after introducing Wonder Shells, but I definitely saw a large GH increase after completely dissolving three small shells in my 6.5 gallon (like from around 10dGH to 30dGH). But obviously this was a one-off situation, and I had already been messing with my hardness w/ other recipes before that. If I started over now, I'd probably do more regular testing starting from fresh water. Regarding the ion exchange, it would be interesting to run some tests on the effectiveness of this as well. They claim only the "fresh" shells have the charged ions, so maybe testing stale vs fresh shells and their effects on fish/plants?



I had quite a spike in GH in my small tank today, where my fish is temporarily right now. I used too much wonder shell. 

I do need KH, but I added a small amount of baking soda to a tank once and the pH, KH, and GH were off the charts. I had to do many water changes to get the levels back to normal (it must have gone into the gravel as well). I'm afraid to use baking soda again.

I got my wonder shells directly from the mfg because they don't have an expiration date on the package. But I had to pay for shipping.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

KristenBellevueWA said:


> I had quite a spike in GH in my small tank today, where my fish is temporarily right now. I used too much wonder shell.


What is the new hardness?



KristenBellevueWA said:


> I do need KH, but I added a small amount of baking soda to a tank once and the pH, KH, and GH were off the charts. I had to do many water changes to get the levels back to normal (it must have gone into the gravel as well). I'm afraid to use baking soda again.


Pure baking soda should not affect GH. If you're worried about using off-the-shelf baking soda, you could pick up something like Seachem alkaline buffer to use instead, which will list the exact dosing to reach the desired KH. But wonder shells will have a negligible effect on KH, so I wouldn't expect much change there with continued use.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

jatcar95 said:


> What is the new hardness?
> 
> 
> Pure baking soda should not affect GH. If you're worried about using off-the-shelf baking soda, you could pick up something like Seachem alkaline buffer to use instead, which will list the exact dosing to reach the desired KH. But wonder shells will have a negligible effect on KH, so I wouldn't expect much change there with continued use.


The GH was up to 180 in my old tank today. Everything is still great in my new 5 gallon planted tank, though!

Thanks! When I added the baking soda the pH was 8+, and I couldn't get it down. KH and GH were also off the charts.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Baking soda is pure sodium bicarbonate. It has no calcium or magnesium. Thus, it will not change the GH. 

Are you sure that you didn't use _baking powder_? It would explain your results. Baking powder contains calcium and sodium bicarbonate. Thus, it will raise KH, pH and GH. (Caution: It also contains corn starch, aluminum sulfate and phosphates, which could cause all kinds of problems when added to an aquarium.

The dosage to raise KH one degree is 1 gram of Baking Soda per 10 gal. A teaspoon of salt weighs about 6 grams. In my book I recommend that people add 1 teaspoon to 10 gal, but you could add less. Recommended alkalinity for aquatic plants is 2-8 dKH. 

If still not convinced, check package ingredients. My generic Baking Soda lists sodium bicarbonate as the only ingredient. That's what you want to use.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> Attention Please! Baking soda is pure sodium bicarbonate. It has no calcium or magnesium. Thus, it will not change the GH.
> 
> Are you sure that you didn't use _baking powder_? It would explain your results. Baking powder contains calcium and sodium bicarbonate. Thus, it will raise KH, pH and GH. (Caution: It also contains corn starch, aluminum sulfate and phosphates, which could cause all kinds of problems when added to an aquarium.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I checked, and it is sodium bicarbonate. It has been sitting around sealed in a bio bag for a while, maybe that has something to do with what I experienced. I used about 1/4 tsp for my 2.6 tank. I was up all night changing the water and worrying so I'm worried about trying it again!


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

I'll be moving my betta to the new tank today. The snails have acclimated to the new tank over the past two days, and the water still looks good from an ammonia and nitrite perspective. However, the water parameters in the new tank after adding the snails are now:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 0
pH: 6.5
KH: 0
GH: 40


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Okay, good you checked and thanks for providing the evidence. I tested my baking soda (ordinary generic store brand) by adding it to the test tube with which I check GH. I added a little baking soda (10 mg?) to 5 ml of tapwater which would make it very concentrated, much more than what you added to your tank. No GH increase. Then, I repeated test with aquarium water. Still, no change.

I think your Bob's Red Mill baking soda contains calcium. Since calcium is not toxic and most cooks use both baking soda and baking powder, I guess it's no big deal to bakers (or the company) if their baking soda is not pure sodium bicarbonate? I would get another brand (the cheapest generic) and test its GH in a small tube before you add it to the tank. It doesn't go bad, so you'll have it forever.

Also, I went back to check on the amount necessary to increase KH by one degree. It is 1 gram per 10 gal. A tsp of salt weighs about 6 grams, so that means you will need to add only a small amount to a 2.6 gal tank. Christel Kassellman, the guru of aquatic plants, writes that the optimal range for plants is 2-8 dKH, so you have a lot of leeway.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> Okay, good you checked and thanks for providing the evidence. I tested my baking soda (ordinary generic store brand) by adding it to the test tube with which I check GH. I added a little baking soda (10 mg?) to 5 ml of tapwater which would make it very concentrated, much more than what you added to your tank. No GH increase. Then, I repeated test with aquarium water. Still, no change.
> 
> I think your Bob's Red Mill baking soda contains calcium. Since calcium is not toxic and most cooks use both baking soda and baking powder, I guess it's no big deal to bakers (or the company) if their baking soda is not pure sodium bicarbonate? I would get another brand (the cheapest generic) and test its GH in a small tube before you add it to the tank. It doesn't go bad, so you'll have it forever.
> 
> Also, I went back to check on the amount necessary to increase KH by one degree. It is 1 gram per 10 gal. A tsp of salt weighs about 6 grams, so that means you will need to add only a small amount to a 2.6 gal tank. Christel Kassellman, the guru of aquatic plants, writes that the optimal range for plants is 2-8 dKH, so you have a lot of leeway.


Yes, that's a food brand, so it's safe to say that most people buy it for baking. I actually bought it for cleaning. I'll buy a generic brand!

Do you recommend continuing to use the wonder shells, and then just adding baking soda as needed for KH going forward? So far I'm having good luck with the 5 gallon tank and the plants that I have. Hopefully the plants will grow a lot more over time!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

You're obviously having good luck with your 5 gal. I would stick with the Wonder Shells. You may not even need to add baking soda. The Wonder Shells contain calcium carbonate, so when they dissolve, they will release bicarbonates. That should raise your KH, but the only way to know for sure is to measure KH. 

I just ordered some Wonder Shells myself. Look forward to trying them out!


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> You're obviously having good luck with your 5 gal. I would stick with the Wonder Shells. You may not even need to add baking soda. The Wonder Shells contain calcium carbonate, so when they dissolve, they will release bicarbonates. That should raise your KH, but the only way to know for sure is to measure KH.
> 
> I just ordered some Wonder Shells myself. Look forward to trying them out!


Oh great! Thanks, I'll stay the course on the wonder shells and see how it goes. Thanks for recommending the wonder shells!  Looking forward to hearing more about how everyone likes them.


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## ronnie (Feb 26, 2021)

Hey all! I haven’t checked the forum in a long while (life…), but playing catch up.

Wonder shell trial 1; for me was only 1 small shell for a 12.5G. That’s why I may not have seen such an increase or change in parameters. I wanted to start slow.

I also haven’t started my second test. I need to. I’m dealing with headaches regarding the tank as is (nothing major, just things I notice and playing process of elimination). I’ll show my recordings soon and continue the process.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

ronnie said:


> Hey all! I haven’t checked the forum in a long while (life…), but playing catch up.
> 
> Wonder shell trial 1; for me was only 1 small shell for a 12.5G. That’s why I may not have seen such an increase or change in parameters. I wanted to start slow.
> 
> I also haven’t started my second test. I need to. I’m dealing with headaches regarding the tank as is (nothing major, just things I notice and playing process of elimination). I’ll show my recordings soon and continue the process.


I was going to give an update on my tank today as well! 

I overdid the wonder shell. And I also realized that when I replaced the wonder shell that had dissolved in my tank, I didn't replace any of the water. So now my GH is over 180, but my pH is up to 7 again. So in my experience when you add a lot of wonder shell it will significantly increase your GH and also increase your pH some. This is the second time I've seen that happen. Small amounts of wonder shell don't seem to impact my pH. And the wonder shell doesn't seem to have an impact on my KH - it's still at 0. 

Also, I guess I won't need as many wonder shells as I thought because I won't be using them continuously unless I start doing more water changes. 

But the tank is doing great! All the plants are thriving (except for the floaters, they all keep dying on me!), and my water always tests 0 for ammonia and nitrites even without water changes.


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## ronnie (Feb 26, 2021)

Wonder Shells will generally not affect KH or pH. I remember reading that on the website. Which doesn’t make sense now that I think about it. They claim to be made of Calcium Carbonate/CaCO3+ cations. My organic chemistry knowledge is so old in my memory that I can’t really comment on it any further. Maybe someone can help explain if it is really calcium carbonate or if the ions make a difference.

“A few other elements found in minor & trace amounts include: Magnesium, Chloride, Sodium, Sulfate, Potassium, Bicarbonate, Bromide, Borate, Strontium, Fluoride (there is NO sodium thiosulfate despite poor search result claims).”
- Taken from Wonder Shell Aquarium Mineral Blocks - AAP | Disease Preventative

It seems like it should affect KH?

Anyway, my brain is still a little fried so I’m having some trouble connecting the dots. But the above is some info from the product manufacturer. They talk a lot about ion exchange…so now I find myself confused, what are the wonder shells doing in regard to our NPT’s?


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

ronnie said:


> Wonder Shells will generally not affect KH or pH. I remember reading that on the website. Which doesn’t make sense now that I think about it. They claim to be made of Calcium Carbonate/CaCO3+ cations. My organic chemistry knowledge is so old in my memory that I can’t really comment on it any further. Maybe someone can help explain if it is really calcium carbonate or if the ions make a difference.
> 
> “A few other elements found in minor & trace amounts include: Magnesium, Chloride, Sodium, Sulfate, Potassium, Bicarbonate, Bromide, Borate, Strontium, Fluoride (there is NO sodium thiosulfate despite poor search result claims).”
> - Taken from Wonder Shell Aquarium Mineral Blocks - AAP | Disease Preventative
> ...


You know so much about water! All I know is my personal experience with my 5 gallon tank. Perhaps there are other variables that I'm not aware of going on. I did add a small amount of baking soda to the tank at one point, so maybe that's still affecting what's happening with the water?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

ronnie said:


> Wonder Shells will generally not affect KH or pH. I remember reading that on the website. Which doesn’t make sense now that I think about it. They claim to be made of Calcium Carbonate/CaCO3+ cations. My organic chemistry knowledge is so old in my memory that I can’t really comment on it any further. Maybe someone can help explain if it is really calcium carbonate or if the ions make a difference.
> 
> “A few other elements found in minor & trace amounts include: Magnesium, Chloride, Sodium, Sulfate, Potassium, Bicarbonate, Bromide, Borate, Strontium, Fluoride (there is NO sodium thiosulfate despite poor search result claims).”
> - Taken from Wonder Shell Aquarium Mineral Blocks - AAP | Disease Preventative
> ...


Thanks for ingredient list and additional information. I was wondering if Wonder Shells contained potassium, and I'm delighted to see that it does. 

I think that Wonder Shells contain an acidic ingredient. Otherwise, the CaCO3 would take forever--like sea shells or oyster grit--to dissolve. Perhaps Wonder Shells contain NaHSO4 (sodium bisulfate). The NaHSO4, which is acidic, would hasten the dissolving of CaCO3. The acid generated could also react with bicarbonate in the water to form CO2. As the bicarbonate is removed, the KH and the pH would begin to drop. The manufacturers have somehow mixed these chemicals together so that there's a slow gentle release.

Wonder Shells could be a bonanza for planted tanks. Increase major water hardness nutrients (Ca, Mg, and K) AND provide a little CO2 for plants. I added a small Wonder Shell to my 5 gal tank yesterday.


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## ronnie (Feb 26, 2021)

Interesting all around. Thank you Diana for giving your thoughts and insight.

My first experiment I used only half to a third of recommended for my tank. Perhaps I’ll go all in and see if I noticed big changes from the first attempt. That being said, I didn’t see many parameter changes, but saw great plant growth from even a small dosage. It seemed to “kickstart” plants that had not been performing well.

My overall question now is do the shells affect the water for a long(ish) period of time, or is it going to be a frequent addition.

Kristen, I occasionally add some baking soda to my tank. In my experience, it only lasts as long as it takes to use up. With our soft water in the Seattle area, I’ve found most “hard water” nutrients don’t last long in my tank. (I hope this makes sense).

More info from above linked site:

“For maintaining a higher pH or KH Wonder Shells should be combined with baking soda or better Sea Chem Buffers (or similar).”

“_Extremely useful in planted aquariums at maintaining hardness_ (and we mean GH, not KH as studies in photosynthesis prove) to counter act peak daytime photosynthesis.
The Authorized AAP Wonder Shell is a CONSTANT GH supplement unlike other supplements for those using the EI method of dosing for planted aquariums!
As well, AAP Wonder Shells are useful for other minerals required by plants.
This said, if a planted aquarium GH booster are already being used daily, the AAP Wonder Shell would NOT be necessary.”

Wonder Shell Info Link


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

ronnie said:


> Interesting all around. Thank you Diana for giving your thoughts and insight.
> 
> My first experiment I used only half to a third of recommended for my tank. Perhaps I’ll go all in and see if I noticed big changes from the first attempt. That being said, I didn’t see many parameter changes, but saw great plant growth from even a small dosage. It seemed to “kickstart” plants that had not been performing well.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Ronnie! A couple of thoughts - I have read I should keep my tap water's pH, since it's hard to get a consistent pH when you manipulate it. I also read that bettas like it slightly acidic. 

My fluctuates between 6, 6.5, and sometimes 7, perhaps my KH is 0. My tap water pH is 6.

I guess I've been holding off on doing anything except the wonder shell because it's hard to maintain exact water parameters. But I'm completely new to this, so I'm not sure. Thoughts?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

You don't have to have exact parameters for Bettas, plants, etc. A pH around neutral (6.5-7.5) and GH and KH above 2 is all you really want for most fish and plants.

I added one small Wonder Shell to a 5 gal outdoor RCS tank. (Manufacturer's recommended dosage was 3 of these shells, but I used only one.) Took picture day before adding the shell.

Started with: pH = 7.0, GH = 6, and KH = 6
Two days later: pH = 7.0, GH = 10 and KH = 5
Three days later pH = 7.0, GH = 9 and KH = 5

No water circulation in this tank and the Wonder Shell is sitting in the corner slowly dissolving.

This is just a simple pilot test, but I like that it that the Wonder Shell increased the GH without bringing down the pH or KH. Encouraging.


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## ronnie (Feb 26, 2021)

I had the similar results, Diana, except I was hoping for a boost in KH.

Kristen, my pH stays in the 6.5 area without doing anything to do. Just water from the tap.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> You don't have to have exact parameters for Bettas, plants, etc. A pH around neutral (6.5-7.5) and GH and KH above 2 is all you really want for most fish and plants.
> 
> I added one small Wonder Shell to a 5 gal outdoor RCS tank. (Manufacturer's recommended dosage was 3 of these shells, but I used only one.) Took picture day before adding the shell.
> 
> ...


That looks really great! I'm thinking the GH you listed above (and the GH currently in my tank) is too high for a betta, so maybe it's just a half shell for my tank. I'm sure my mystery snail is loving it, though!

Hmmm... How to raise KH, though? I'm not sure why mine's always steady at 0.

I think I need to find a way to increase KH, though.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

ronnie said:


> I had the similar results, Diana, except I was hoping for a boost in KH.
> 
> Kristen, my pH stays in the 6.5 area without doing anything to do. Just water from the tap.


Great to know, thanks Ronnie! Yes, I'd like a boost in KH as well.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I don't think there's any way of getting around the fact that you will have to add bicarbonate separately. You see, the main goal of the Wonder Shell is to provide hardwater nutrients Ca, Mg, K, etc. The only way Wonder Shell can dissolve tough CaCO3 is to include an acid ingredient. However, once you add acid, you convert bicarbonates to CO2. That reduces the KH--or at least does not increase it. 

Thus, you must add the bicarbonate separately. A simple addition of Baking Soda will bring KH up. 

Kristen has brought up the fact that not all commercial Baking Sodas are alike. Thus, you need to find a Baking Soda that is relatively pure Sodium Bicarbonate. (See earlier posts on this thread.)


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## ronnie (Feb 26, 2021)

@dwalstad — those were my updated assumptions. Especially after doing more research and hearing your great explanation of CaCO3.

But honestly, with my tap water, if all I have to do is add some sodium bicarbonate and the occasional wonder shell, then I can’t complain much. (Also yes, I immediately checked my baking soda after reading this thread the other day. Luckily, I had the correct product).

I’ll still continue with this experiment though. It’s fun to share with you guys, and it’s a great resource to have on hand.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> I don't think there's any way of getting around the fact that you will have to add bicarbonate separately. You see, the main goal of the Wonder Shell is to provide hardwater nutrients Ca, Mg, K, etc. The only way Wonder Shell can dissolve tough CaCO3 is to include an acid ingredient. However, once you add acid, you convert bicarbonates to CO2. That reduces the KH--or at least does not increase it.
> 
> Thus, you must add the bicarbonate separately. A simple addition of Baking Soda will bring KH up.
> 
> Kristen has brought up the fact that not all commercial Baking Sodas are alike. Thus, you need to find a Baking Soda that is relatively pure Sodium Bicarbonate. (See earlier posts on this thread.)


Okay, thanks! That makes sense. I will find one that is pure.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

I haven't put in the baking soda yet. I just haven't gotten around to buying it.

My KH is now at 20, which is better but still low. My pH is at 6.5, which I think is pretty good for a betta fish. My hardness is still at 180. I haven't put in any more wonder shell because of the continued water hardness. At this point I've just been topping the tank off.

All my plants are doing great, except for the floaters. They all die eventually. None of my bottom plants are really hitting the surface, and I know they should be. They are close, but I think they are slow growing. The fish store recommended fertilizer for the floaters, but of course I'm trying to avoid it. I don't have room to plant any more plants in the soil, but it's expensive to keep replacing the floaters! My betta likes them, though.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Are your parameters still -0- across the board? I'm wondering whether you actually have enough ammonia/ammonium to keep your floaters happy? How often do you feed your livestock?


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

KristenBellevueWA said:


> All my plants are doing great, except for the floaters. They all die eventually. None of my bottom plants are really hitting the surface, and I know they should be. They are close, but I think they are slow growing. The fish store recommended fertilizer for the floaters, but of course I'm trying to avoid it. I don't have room to plant any more plants in the soil, but it's expensive to keep replacing the floaters! My betta likes them, though.


You could try adding iron for the floating plants. Mine were not doing well for a long time, until I started adding Seachem iron. Now I add it multiple times a week and it keeps them happy and growing. I guess all my iron was in the soil, but not entering the water column at a rate that satisfied the floaters. The symptoms when I don't add iron is small, yellowish new growth. May not be the same issue you're experiencing, but could be worth a try!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

In general, iron is the missing nutrient for floating plants. Iron is insoluble in the overlying water, because it is quickly converted to iron oxides (rust). While rooted plants are fine with the substrate's _soluble _iron, floating plants cannot use rust in the water. Thus, if you are having trouble with floating plants, add either chelated iron or a micronutrient fertilizer. (Most micronutrient fertilizers contain chelated iron.)


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

johnwesley0 said:


> Are your parameters still -0- across the board? I'm wondering whether you actually have enough ammonia/ammonium to keep your floaters happy? How often do you feed your livestock?


I forgot to say that my nitrates have always been at zero! That's why the fish store recommended the fertilizer. I feed my fish and snails (livestock lol) once per day.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> In general, iron is the missing nutrient for floating plants. Iron is insoluble in the overlying water, because it is quickly converted to iron oxides (rust). While rooted plants are fine with the substrate's _soluble _iron, floating plants cannot use rust in the water. Thus, if you are having trouble with floating plants, add either chelated iron or a micronutrient fertilizer. (Most micronutrient fertilizers contain chelated iron.)


Great! I do some cleanup weekly, so I can add iron then. They recommended adding this weekly, which I see has iron in it: 






Tropica Specialised fertiliser - liquid fertiliser for planted tanks - Tropica Aquarium Plants


Tropica Specialised fertiliser - liquid fertiliser for heavily planted tanks.




tropica.com


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## Von (Jun 6, 2021)

Hi there!
I love your tank it looks lovely!

I just read that you are having trouble with your floaters, I had trouble with mine mosquito fee due to the lighting, I have 1 LED light and a 15w CFL bulb over my tank and it caused the mosquito fern to start turning red and brown. If you have no luck with fertiliser or if it’s giving you algae, you can try lowering the light to see if it might help since it helped with mine. In australia, the soil is a lot more mineralised so I can’t comment on any deficiencies but it might be good to have a few solutions to try out over time.

For you pH fluctuation, that’s very normal with a planted tank. As plants photosynthesis, they strip the water of CO2 and in turn increases the pH of your tank so if you see an increase in pH from morning to night then it might just be that. Kh will definitely help with the fluctuation.

As for your testing and constantly getting zeros, I had a similar problem when I used test strips since I thought it was a easy fix, but it turns out they are not too accurate. Test strips are essentially fibre pads soaked in colour changing chemicals, every time you dip them for a little longer or you shake off the water a little harder, then can take some of the colour with it making it harder for you to determine. That was my problem with kh and gh and I kept on adding until I brought a liquid test and it showed my kh and gh to be way higher than my strip readings ! If you can, you may want to invest in a liquid test like the API kh and gh since you will be able to see the point of change and will give you a piece of mind.

I am also new to this and it’s all very stressful since you can’t see the changes with your eyes and you are constantly thinking if you are doing the right thing. But your tanks looks absolutely amazing and you should give yourself a pat on the back for keeping up with all the changes!


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

Von said:


> Hi there!
> I love your tank it looks lovely!
> 
> I just read that you are having trouble with your floaters, I had trouble with mine mosquito fee due to the lighting, I have 1 LED light and a 15w CFL bulb over my tank and it caused the mosquito fern to start turning red and brown. If you have no luck with fertiliser or if it’s giving you algae, you can try lowering the light to see if it might help since it helped with mine. In australia, the soil is a lot more mineralised so I can’t comment on any deficiencies but it might be good to have a few solutions to try out over time.
> ...


I'll keep that in mind about the lighting!

That's interesting about the test strips. It is really hard to tell the difference in the color pinks on the test strips, at least. I would be happy to see a higher KH and a lower GH number. 

Thanks for the compliments on the tank.  It's been a fun journey, and I love seeing my betta swimming around enjoying it.


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## maico996 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi Kristen,
If you plan on dosing fertilizers in your tank you might want to try dry fertilizers and make your own solution. I've purchased from this company before and have been very happy with their products. With the size of your tank and the amount you'd be dosing, one bag would likely last you for years. Much cheaper in the long run, especially if you want to add more tanks. You can either get the chelated iron or a micronutrient mix which contains chelated iron.
Nutritrace CSM + Boron – Aquarium Fertilizer
Iron chelate 10% with DTPA 8oz – Aquarium Fertilizer


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

One trick about iron dosing is that you should add it at night before lights go out. Light will degrade the chelator resulting in a lower "dose."


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Another trick with iron dosing is when your pH is less than 7.0, usually when CO2 is optimal. The pH affects the chelator as well.


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## PlantFan (Jun 19, 2021)

KristenBellevueWA said:


> I haven't put in the baking soda yet. I just haven't gotten around to buying it.











ProLine® Sodium Bicarbonate


Sodium bicarbonate is used to raise the alkalinity and the pH (when conditions are right) of fish-raising water. Recirculating aquaculture systems typically require weekly or bi-weekly additions. Our sodium bicarbonate is FCC food-grade, complying with National Science Foundation Standard 60. It...




pentairaes.com


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

I've been adding a squirt of fertilizer every weekend at night. The floaters are no longer dying (they are growing), and the water stats are looking better!

Nitrates 0
Nitrites 0
pH 7
KH 40
GH 180 (still high)

I haven't added more wonder shell to my tank since my GH is still at 180 and I haven't done any huge water changes. I'm wondering if my mystery snail needs more calcium by now.

I haven't run out of my test strips yet, but when I do I'll get the liquid test kit. So far I've found the test strips to be consistent at least.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

KristenBellevueWA said:


> I've been adding a squirt of fertilizer every weekend at night. The floaters are no longer dying (they are growing), and the water stats are looking better!


Sounds about right. Once your floating plants started growing, they took up the nitrogen.
What kind of fertilizer did you use. Does it contain iron (Fe)?
If the GH is 180 and their shells are normal (not soft), you don't need to worry about calcium. A GH of 180 indicates water with plentiful hardness. You can thank your Wonder Shells.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> Sounds about right. Once your floating plants started growing, they took up the nitrogen.
> What kind of fertilizer did you use. Does it contain iron (Fe)?
> If the GH is 180 and their shells are normal (not soft), you don't need to worry about calcium. A GH of 180 indicates water with plentiful hardness. You can thank your Wonder Shells.


Thank you! I really appreciate your help. 

I'm using this fertilizer because my fish store recommended it, but it's really expensive. I don't really want to mix my own, though.  It does have iron in it: Tropica Specialised fertiliser - liquid fertiliser for planted tanks - Tropica Aquarium Plants

Yay for the wonder shells! My snails' shells are not soft.

I think I have a really nice ecosystem going. My fish is happy!


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

The green fertilizer I've been adding is turning my tank walls and plants bright green. The tank looks worse for wear with the fertilizer, but if I don't add the fertilizer then the floaters die. I'm not sure that my other plants even do well with the fertilizer. My fish really likes the floaters, though. Maybe I should try a different kind?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

KristenBellevueWA said:


> The green fertilizer I've been adding is turning my tank walls and plants bright green. The tank looks worse for wear with the fertilizer, but if I don't add the fertilizer then the floaters die. I'm not sure that my other plants even do well with the fertilizer. My fish really likes the floaters, though. Maybe I should try a different kind?


The Tropica product, you earlier linked to, looks like an all-purpose fertilizer. It contains N and P along with the iron. You don't need N and P if you are feeding your fish well. 

In 2019, I purchased 100 g of Fe-EDTA powder from a German company. This powder will last forever if kept dry. I paid $16 total for it 2 years ago and doesn't look like price has gone up. Just a pinch (0.1 grams?/10 gal tank), mixed with a little water beforehand and added in late evening, is all I add when my floating plants look sad. 

I'm betting that all your floating plants need is iron. If so, a pure, powdered, chelated form is the cheapest and most effective way to go.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> The Tropica product, you earlier linked to, looks like an all-purpose fertilizer. It contains N and P along with the iron. You don't need N and P if you are feeding your fish well.
> 
> In 2019, I purchased 100 g of Fe-EDTA powder from a German company. This powder will last forever if kept dry. I paid $16 total for it 2 years ago and doesn't look like price has gone up. Just a pinch (0.1 grams?/10 gal tank), mixed with a little water beforehand and added in late evening, is all I add when my floating plants look sad.
> 
> I'm betting that all your floating plants need is iron. If so, a pure, powdered, chelated form is the cheapest and most effective way to go.


Great, thank you! I finally got all that green stuff out of my tank - yuck. I think you have to live in Germany to buy the product you listed above? Will either of the following work? Another member posted them a while back as an alternative:

Nutritrace CSM + Boron – Aquarium Fertilizer
Iron chelate 10% with DTPA 8oz – Aquarium Fertilizer


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I don't remember how I bought the FeEDTA, maybe off of eBay.
The Iron chelate with DTPA would work just as well as what I bought. DTPA is probably a better chelator than EDTA.
The Nutritrace is a weird mix with an incredible amount of boron, a nutrient that most plants need the least???


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> I don't remember how I bought the FeEDTA, maybe off of eBay.
> The Iron chelate with DTPA would work just as well as what I bought. DTPA is probably a better chelator than EDTA.
> The Nutritrace is a weird mix with an incredible amount of boron, a nutrient that most plants need the least???


Excellent! I just bought the DTPA powder. We'll see how it goes!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

KristenBellevueWA said:


> Excellent! I just bought the DTPA powder. We'll see how it goes!


Yes, please let us know.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I have started adding a pinch of FeEDTA every week to two of my tanks. I cannot believe how my floating Water Sprite has responded. It was dying with a sickly yellowish color, but within two weeks, it has perked up, greened, and started growing like crazy. 

Iron is the one nutrient that plants need a relatively lot of AND the one that is not available in the water (my book, page 167). This was all theoretical until lately when I started shooting for maximum plant growth for my potted plant/fish breeding tanks. It's a little early to say for sure, but it looks like this iron fertilization is working, at least for this one plant that I've often had trouble with.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> I have started adding a pinch of FeEDTA every week to two of my tanks. I cannot believe how my floating Water Sprite has responded. It was dying with a sickly yellowish color, but within two weeks, it has perked up, greened, and started growing like crazy.
> 
> Iron is the one nutrient that plants need a relatively lot of AND the one that is not available in the water (my book, page 167). This was all theoretical until lately when I started shooting for maximum plant growth for my potted plant/fish breeding tanks. It's a little early to say for sure, but it looks like this iron fertilization is working, at least for this one plant that I've often had trouble with.


That's exciting! I just got the product in the mail and I need to mix it up. It says it will make the water cloudy if there's other fertilizer with it, so I'm going to try to get the rest of the green stuff out of my tank this weekend and then add it!



Iron chelate 10% with DTPA 8oz – Aquarium Fertilizer


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

This is looking like a really nice solution to iron deficiency, excited to hear your results @KristenBellevueWA! I've been using Seachem Iron (https://www.amazon.com/Seachem-116047302-Flourish-Iron-500ml/dp/B00025696C) for $10 a bottle because it seemed easier, but I just purchased a similar DTPA chelate for $20 including shipping (DTPA Chelated Iron (Fe 11%) Aquarium Fertilizer - 0.5lb Jar) that seems like it will be MUCH more cost effective in the long run.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

One question I have for @dwalstad or anyone else with more chemistry knowledge - what are the byproducts of adding chelated iron to the aquarium? I assume the binding molecule (DTPA or EDTA) is left over after the plants uptake the iron. What exactly are these molecules, and should accumulation of them over time be an issue to worry about?


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

They’re organic carbon molecules. If the plants don’t use them, bacteria will.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

jatcar95 said:


> This is looking like a really nice solution to iron deficiency, excited to hear your results @KristenBellevueWA! I've been using Seachem Iron (https://www.amazon.com/Seachem-116047302-Flourish-Iron-500ml/dp/B00025696C) for $10 a bottle because it seemed easier, but I just purchased a similar DTPA chelate for $20 including shipping (DTPA Chelated Iron (Fe 11%) Aquarium Fertilizer - 0.5lb Jar) that seems like it will be MUCH more cost effective in the long run.


Yes, it looks like a good alternative to the expensive Seachem product. I mixed a small batch and added it yesterday! I have some remaining floaters and we'll see how they do.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

Sadly, my betta fish Poppy died last week. She had tapeworms and we couldn't save her. I took down the tank and I'm not getting a new fish until early next year because I have some things going on right now that will make it difficult to take care of it. I'm keeping the tank and all the supplies, though. I hope to find another fish that will bring me as much joy every day as Poppy did! Building the tank was a great experience. Thanks for all your help! To be continued...


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

KristenBellevueWA said:


> Sadly, my betta fish Poppy died last week. She had tapeworms and we couldn't save her. I took down the tank and I'm not getting a new fish until early next year because I have some things going on right now that will make it difficult to take care of it. I'm keeping the tank and all the supplies, though. I hope to find another fish that will bring me as much joy every day as Poppy did! Building the tank was a great experience. Thanks for all your help! To be continued...


I gave the snails to a nice family with kids!


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## ahicks51 (Oct 19, 2021)

jatcar95 said:


> One question I have for @dwalstad or anyone else with more chemistry knowledge - what are the byproducts of adding chelated iron to the aquarium? I assume the binding molecule (DTPA or EDTA) is left over after the plants uptake the iron. What exactly are these molecules, and should accumulation of them over time be an issue to worry about?


Unfortunately, EDTA and other chelants are fairly resistant to degradation in the environment. There's been some discussion as to exactly how harmful they are.

As an aside, I've used FeEDDHA (Sprint 138) in the aquarium, and while dilute FeEDTA is straw yellow to invisible (depending upon the concentration), FeEDDHA is remarkable in its ability to taint aquarium water red/brown, even at very low concentrations.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

KristenBellevueWA said:


> Sadly, my betta fish Poppy died last week. She had tapeworms and we couldn't save her. I took down the tank and I'm not getting a new fish until early next year because I have some things going on right now that will make it difficult to take care of it. I'm keeping the tank and all the supplies, though. I hope to find another fish that will bring me as much joy every day as Poppy did! Building the tank was a great experience. Thanks for all your help! To be continued...


Sorry for your loss @KristenBellevueWA. All life is precious, but it is particularly difficult when it is beautiful as well. Come back next year!


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

KristenBellevueWA said:


> Sadly, my betta fish Poppy died last week. She had tapeworms and we couldn't save her. I took down the tank and I'm not getting a new fish until early next year because I have some things going on right now that will make it difficult to take care of it. I'm keeping the tank and all the supplies, though. I hope to find another fish that will bring me as much joy every day as Poppy did! Building the tank was a great experience. Thanks for all your help! To be continued...


So sorry to hear this  I lost my betta recently as well. It's hard to keep with it after a big loss...only reason I did was because I had some other fish in the tank as well. Feels like everyone in "real life" doesn't understand how upsetting it can be, but it really is pretty devastating.

Take the time you need, and hope to see you back in the future.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

johnwesley0 said:


> Sorry for your loss @KristenBellevueWA. All life is precious, but it is particularly difficult when it is beautiful as well. Come back next year!


Thanks! I appreciate that.


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## KristenBellevueWA (Apr 26, 2021)

jatcar95 said:


> So sorry to hear this  I lost my betta recently as well. It's hard to keep with it after a big loss...only reason I did was because I had some other fish in the tank as well. Feels like everyone in "real life" doesn't understand how upsetting it can be, but it really is pretty devastating.
> 
> Take the time you need, and hope to see you back in the future.


I'm sorry for your loss as well!  Yes, Poppy dying completely wiped out my week. I agree - people just don't know how closely you can bond with a fish. They are special little beings. Thank you for your kind words, and for all your help! There will be an opportunity for me to build a new tank with a new fish next year. See you then!


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