# Is insufficient lighting the only cause of....



## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

...excessive space between bracts and or leaves in stem plants? It's often referred to a "leggy" growth. If that is the only apparent problem in submersed plant growth can it be attributed to insufficient lighting or are there any other recognized factors or combinations of factors that would cause this particular issue?


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

I think ts mostly due to low light. However, CO2 seems to have something to do with how densely plants grow as well.


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## Supercoley1 (May 28, 2007)

Indeed. Using CO2 in a low light setup means that the plants can use their energies elsewhere. Less effort in sourcing C and nutrients means more energy available to utilise the lower light.

I don't particularly think that light has much to so with anything other than speed of growth (within reason of course)

AC


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

Well, I hardly have a low light tank...on a 59-gallon (36-inches long, 24-inches deep) I have five 54-watt t5 bulbs with individual reflectors and another two in a fixture with a single reflector for the two. My drop-checker tells me that the CO2 level if good and if I pump anymore in, ther fish are seriously gasping for breath at the water's surface. I use EI-dosing. And, while most of the plants are doing very well, there are certain plants that are showing in some cases, wirey growth and in some cases the leaf bracts are too far appart (with most notably, cabamba) and I can't figure out why. I get great pearling and my glosso's growing in a thick matt close to the substrate so it doesn't appear to be starving for either light of CO2 for that matter. I just can't figure it out.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

It's hard to say what will make your Cabomba grow bushier. Here in Texas there is a natural spring lake and a river flowing from it that have the most amazing Cabomba growth. The water is rich in Calcium. Look in this album:
http://picasaweb.google.com/ddasega/SanMarcosRiverMay172008#

I'd say try adding some extra Calcium. It will not hurt for sure. Very few plants don't like extra Calcium so it's a safe bet.

Also - Cabomba is a North American plant. I wonder if you need to lower your temperature a little.

Overall - remember that often in our tanks we are trying to create an environment good for plants that come from very different conditions. On top of that problem we have interactions between the plants themselves beyond the shading. Keep these things in mind. You may never be able to grow a bushy Cabomba. It's no big deal - for example some people can grow 60 or so plants but not Hornwort or Green Rotala.

--Nikolay


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## Minsc (May 7, 2006)

Cabomba can be one of the most difficult plants to grow in a "picture perfect" manner. Are you trying to grow it in the background? That will make it even more difficult. Are you providing enough flow to the entire plant? Having CO2 in the water is one thing, getting it to the plants is another.

The only time I've been able to grow Cabomba furcata in a compact manner is in a 10 gallon with 96 watts of light, heavy CO2 misting and filtration rated at 300gph.


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

Nico...thanks for that link...the photos in the gallery include some cabamba that mine looks pretty close to, so though the bracts on mine are farther apart, it isn't that I should be alarmed. I'm going to give the calcium a try...I use RO water for waterchanges and so there may be a shortfall there. And, the temps in my tank are a bit high this time of year because I have four fishtanks in this room and the lights, etc. including the ones on the planted tank and the metal halides on the reef do create a lot of ambient heat in the room. That should be over pretty soon, so if that's a factor at all, it'll be remedied soon.

Minsc...I never was aware that a plant as "simple" as cabamba wasn't...simple. It's one of those plants that had been around seemingly forever so to be a bit stymied by it comes as a surprise.

I am growing it in the background...both C. caroliniana and furcata. You can see them in this photo that I just took:










I do have a good deal of flow in the tank, having two Eheim 2217s on it and also a Mag5 pushing the pressurized CO2.

I had been under the impression that only light could cause this issue and wondered why with all the light I had this is the case.

Thanks, everyone, for the ideas and I'll post with any progress in a bit.


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## Minsc (May 7, 2006)

I can see where a couple stems are a bit leggy, but overall I think they look great! I'm not sure you have much room for improvement!


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

Minsc said:


> I can see where a couple stems are a bit leggy, but overall I think they look great! I'm not sure you have much room for improvement!


Thanks. But, I guess the reason why I'd gotten so concerned is that when I first got the C. furcata, this is how it had been growing and looked like for the first two or three months:










It was absolutely beautiful and I'd hoped that it'd always look like _*that*_.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Hmm that is quite nice! I've never really liked this type of plant because of the way it grows out all leggy, but this picture really makes me want some


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## Minsc (May 7, 2006)

That picture reminds me why I wanted this plant to begin with...
I'd forgotten it could look that good.
That is much nicer than I've ever managed, if you can figure out how to get them back to that state, please let me know.


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

I'm going to work on Niko's suggestions...the water's kind of soft and I'll raise it a bit along with some calcium addition and I'll do what I can to cool the water downl, as well. I'll post here after a while to give it a chance to get back to where it had been.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

This plant can sure be beautiful. It may be that the stems you received had been floating on the top of the water.


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

Tex Gal said:


> This plant can sure be beautiful. It may be that the stems you received had been floating on the top of the water.


The stems that I originally obtained were in fine condition. But, once in my planted tank, they improved remarkably and took on the look that the photo shows. That lasted for over about six weeks with a number of trimming after which I replanted the tops and left some of the bottom stems planted, as well. Then, after six or so week's time, the growth started to become what you see in the first of the two posted photos. So, I do have hopes that I'll be able to recreate the conditions that fostered that nice robust habit that I had with it.

I remembered now, that I had been adding calcium to the tank with water changes in addition to the GH Booster but stopped for no particular reason. Niko mentioned that calcium is present in the natural waters where they do so well, so I'm going to start doing that again.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

I would agree that co2 makes most plants grow lushier/denser, but some plants need intense light and cabomba is one of them. In a 24" tank it is a challenging task to grow that plant bushy. Is you light on legs or raised above the tank?


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

No, not on legs...they're right at the surface...well, the rim of the tank...and there's no glass canopy so the water's unobstructed. I really don't think it is a lack of light because the glosso on the substrate is growing perfectly and the cabamba doesn't grow lusher, even when it reaches the surface within a mere inch from the lights.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

IMO it tanks alot more light to get plants red or grow them extremely dense, more so then to grow a carpet. These plants are farmed in very short tanks. When the height is there these plants tend to 'stretch their legs' toward the light. I'm pretty sure Cabomba is a soft-water plant. It's all over Long Island growing, dense and out of control in rivers and lakes with soft water.


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## woodyship (Dec 19, 2006)

Hello All, 



I used the CO2 drop checker and it is good now. its yellow-green color. 
with a KH 15 
and 26C tempreature 

I also, change my light, i am using now 2X150Watt Metal Hallide 6,500K

and T5 2X34Watt 10,000K

and T5 2X34Watt 6,500K

and T5 4X24Watt 6,500K

and my T5 Light are the best in market (aquamedic and AquaGlu)

and my plant are too leggy 
any help please


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