# I've decided on eco-complete, but ...



## SpaceBug (Jan 10, 2007)

Newby here. I'm going to go with eco-complete as the substrate in my 75gal tank. But getting a 3 inch depth is going to cost a bit of money. If I mix anything with the eco-complete, then I want it to be black to maintain a consistent black look. I can buy some fairly cheap black epoxy covered gravel that would probably look okay. Would this be okay in a 50-50 mix? Or should I just pay the money and go 100% eco-complete? Thanks!


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

Where do you plan to get the ECO.
for a 75 gallon you would probably need 7 to 8 bags.

for 8 bags, shipped from Dr Foster and Smith is @ $192
or from www. aquariumplants.com it is @ $196
that is as cheap as I have found anywhere.

You could use SMS charcoal color if you can find it, then you could probably use 4 bags of Eco and one 50lb bag of the SMS, but you may have a hard time finding this.

You could get 4 bags from www.aquaruimplants.com and buy 1 of their 5 gallon RED buckets of THEIR substrate AquariumPlants.com's own: Freshwater Plant Substrate which is supposed to be SMS or Turface in charcoal color anyway. That would be about $50 shipped and the eco is $96 so you will save about $50. If $50 is a good save for you then do that, if not just get all eco.

BTW the 50lb bag of SMS would only be $16 but some stores, IF they will order it for you might add on Shipping which could be $30 so you are back to that $50 price, just a few bucks shy.

You can search for threads containing key words - "LESCO" or Soilmaster, or SMS and see what other poeple have done as far as getting the SMS

or you could try Black Onyx from Seachem but it isn't that cheap so might not save you any money.
BLACK ONYX (Seachem)

On the stuff you are talking about mixing with, sorry, not familar with it enough to give you an answer.


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## jamesB (Aug 31, 2006)

SpaceBug,

If all you are trying to do is verify that you will not hurt your system going with a 50/50 mix, your probably OK. Many people use a 50/50 system, only they call the top half the cap. I.e. we don't mix the different parts of the substrates. If you feel that the mixture looks good go with it. Will the store let you mix a handful of the two substrates to see how they look? If you go with your mix you may find yourself wishing that you had gone with all eco later just because of the added benefits of eco. The epoxy covered stuff is probably totally inert and useless to your plants.


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## SpaceBug (Jan 10, 2007)

I picked up 4 bags of ECO at a LFS for $26 per bag. A bit more than if I ordered on-line but I don't mind giving this store a little business. I'm just not sure I wanted to spend another $104 for another 4 bags. And to be honest, I'm not sure another 4 bags will do it.

jamesB - I'm not concerned about the look. And I figure that it would all get mixed eventually so I was going to go ahead and mix it up front. The coated stuff is supposed to be inert so I'm not too concerned about that unless someone tells me otherwise. So I guess I'm really asking is whether or not 50% ECO is enough for the plants or, as you say, will I be wishing I had gone 100%?

I'll be putting in the first four bags this weekend. So I'll know where I stand then. If four more will give me close to 3 inches, then I will go all eco.

Thanks again to both of you!


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

dont mix it!

trust me you wont like the look of it after its all said and done. the inert colored gravel will stand out like a sore thumb against the flat dull looking eco. personally i would go all eco-complete.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

...in light of all these recent discussions, why not ADA AquaSoil?

From all the calculations above, I see it'll be ~$150 if you go AquariumPlants and about $200 if you go for straight Eco-Complete.

Your 75 gallon, 48"x18", needs about 5 bags of ADA AS for a 3" height. This is the price for *6* bags shipped to Round Rock, TX from Aqua Design Amano USA/ADGshop.com- now available in the U.S.A, prouldy offered by Aquarium Design Group. The finest planted aquarium products. Total: $168.87. =)

Better than Eco-Complete and only a little more expensive than AquariumPlants' brand substrate.


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

I know I will get killed for this statement, but I really don't like the look of AS, but of course you can do some great things with the decorative sand and all, but straight Amazonia up against Eco, I take Eco.

And I know that the AS will grow plants way better, but that is just me.

Spacebug, $26 a bag at a LFS is very reasonable.
I would just buy them that way, but all of the LFS in the Phoenix area like to jack them up to $34 and higher. But when I go back to Huntington Beach for the holiddays and go LFS browsing, I notice they sell them for between $22 and $24 a bag. I wish that my local stores sold for the 25% margin like in CA, or at least OC instead of the 50% to 75% the try to get around here.

BTW a 9 liter bag of ADA here sells for over $40

In light of what I just said about AS, I will probably be doing my next tank in it just so I can see what all the hype is about, and like many of you, after I do that I man never go back.


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

Wait a second, not trying to be combative here, but just now in ADG I added six 9 liter bags of AS and calculated shipping to PHX and it was $219.82.
That is no power sand or any additives that are reccomended for use with it.

Were you calculating using 3 liter bags or 9 liter bags


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Er, yea. I did it wrong. Forgot to click no the re-calculate button to add in shipping.

Sorry!

Shipping Rates: (change my address)
United States, TX, 78664


Tax (8.25%): 

$12.87 


Total: $225.49

Save $50 by driving there to pick it up. =P

Still a good deal.


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## Mud Pie Mama (Jul 30, 2006)

eklikewhoa said:


> dont mix it!
> 
> trust me you wont like the look of it after its all said and done. the inert colored gravel will stand out like a sore thumb against the flat dull looking eco. personally i would go all eco-complete.


I absolutely agree with eklikewhoa's statement. I think you will greatly regret this. The other thing is I've often seen that shiny epoxy coating start to wear off after some time and it looks even worse. I think with our constant trimming and replanting this may cause the coating to become damaged quicker.

That said, I do LOVE the look of Soilmaster Select Charcoal. I actually prefer it to Eco because the SMS has very uniform grain size whereas there are many large, chunky pebbles mixed all throughout the grains in Eco. THIS drives me nuts!

Now, I really like to build a substrate mixing 25% Eco or Onyx Sand in first and then capping with 75% Soilmaster. I do this for several reasons. Adding the Eco/Onyx gives me some buffering capacity which I've found SMS seems to eat up at first. Also the Eco/Onyx adds some weight because the SMS (especially when first introduced) can be very lightweight and sometimes certain more bouyant (think _Ammania gracilis_) stems love to float loose. If when planting I angle these stems in and get down deep enough to hit that Eco underlayer it can help a lot.

I think plants root more easily in the SMS *because* the grains are lighter weigth; maybe also because it does have tremendous CEC. When I uproot plants from my SMS tanks the root mass is incredibly well developed, large and healthy. In my tank with Flourite I've observed that the _Ranunculus inundatus_ never seems to get its roots from the runners anchored into the substrate. This is never a problem with the SMS - always well rooted; hey, I guess I really am loving this stuff.


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## creative-fury (Sep 8, 2006)

I went with 6 bags of Eco in my 75 and it seemed to be just right. If I were you I would just give in and and spend the extra for 2 or 4 more bags of Eco. You will be glad you did in the long run. Or you can get some black sand, but thats almost as much as Eco anyways.


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## SpaceBug (Jan 10, 2007)

Mud Pie Mama - I was worried about the coating wearing off myself. I definitely won't be using any of that.

I may try AS for my next tank but I have not seen what it looks like except for in pictures. Since I've been able to look at and actually handle eco, I decided that would be my substrate in my first tank. I found another LFS that sells it for $25 and I picked up 2 more bags. At this point, if I need another couple of bags, well its only another $50. Small change compared to what I'm spending for the rest of my setup.

creative- How deep did your substrate end up being with the 6 bags?


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

remember to build up the back side high, as high as you want, or can get with what you have and then slope it forward, in front it can be as shallow as you like, even just an inch, but it depends on what you want to plant there.
you could do a small front area with contrasting sand, like white or regular sand color in front with no plants, but build a barier out of rocks, wood and or plants to keep the black from spilling over onto the sand.

If you don't plant in the sand, just on the borders, you can use any kind that is safe. that is no pestasides or anything that messes with your PH and GH and KH. You should stir it a little when you do water changes and you can top it off once and a while to keep it clean looking and from growing the bad knid of bacteria.


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## SpaceBug (Jan 10, 2007)

Just to finish off this story ... I put in 6 bags of eco into the 75 gal and after sloping it I only had about 1 inch of substrate in the front. So I added 2 more bags for a total of 8. Now I'm looking at it and thinking it might be a bit much! But I did end up going all eco rather than doing a mix. Afterall, with all that I'm spending on lights, CO2, etc., I have no idea why I was worrying about another $50.


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

LOL...
Amen to that


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