# About to give up with this tank...



## Carlos1583 (Jul 7, 2006)

I wasn't sure where to put this thread so I thought I would put it here since algae seems to be my primary problem. I don't want to write so much to bore everyone but I really need some help with my tank because I don't know what else to do.

I've had this 75 Gallon tank since March of '08 and this past August, I redid the entire tank because of algae problems over the summer. I replaced the SMS and decided to try mineralized topsoil capped with 3M Colorquartz. I followed the instructions from the sticky and the setup went without any problems. My original intent with the MTS is to be able to have a planted tank without having to fertilize it because being in vet school limits my time tremendously and so I really want to be able to just do occasional water changes plus feed the fish.

Now a little over a month into the "new tank", I am dealing with BBA again, green spot algae, and some hair thread algae?? and I just can't figure out why I can't seem to do right with this tank. I removed as much algae as possible before the substrate changes in August and I did not keep any plants that I had before the change to try to reduce algae from transferring over.

My tank: 
-10# CO2 tank feeding into a rex grigg reactor attached to the filter and is cranked as high as possible 
-Tek 4x54W lighting with a photo period is about 8 hours with a 4 hour burst from 1pm-9pm with burst from 330pm-730pm.
-2 Ehiem 2217 filters 
-2 Koralia water circulation pumps
-UV filter running attached to one of the filters

Water is normally over 8 pH from tap but with the Co2, it is down towards 7.3.
Here is the water report in case it helps at all...
http://www.cstx.gov/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=2780

I also have about 20 or so fish in the tank

Here are some pics of my tank. Some of these plants I bought from members here and were beautiful when they arrived but are now crappy looking and I can't afford to keep spending money. I'm sorry to be a pain about this but I really am at a loss as to what else I can do. Should I try to continue fighting this? Should I restrict to certain plants that will do ok and not others? Any advice/tips/comments would really be appreciated...thanks


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

You have 2.88 watts of T5s. That's a lot of light. T5s are just so much stronger than regular bulbs. I'm guessing that you are only running all 4 at your sunburst period. I think 4 hours is too long. In my tank, if I do a sunburst of more than 3 hours I get algae. I cut mine back to 2.5 hours. It makes a difference. I would try that first. You might want to cut your photo period back some as well, just until you get your algae issues solved. Watch your plants because you want to make sure there is enough for them.

When you say your CO2 is cranked as high as possible what do you mean? Are your fish gasping if you crank it up any more? 

Next I would spot dose the bba with Excel. I would continue to pull out all the hair algae you see. Anywhere that you have it surrounding plants I would spot treat with H2O2 with all water flow turned off. I would keep it off until the peroxide stops bubbling or 30 min, whatever comes first.

I think you need more plants. Your tank is pretty bare. Cram your tank with plants. It will eat up extra nutrients that are feeding your algae. Have you tested to see what your levels are?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Carlos1583,

First of all let me say those are some nice looking plants, in spite of the BBA. I have successfully combated BBA dosing with Excel / Glutaraldehyde at 2X normal dosage. Usually low CO2 and / or low circulation has been the cause of my BBA. You seem to have plenty of filters and circulation, but maybe the 150 GPH Eheim filter isn't moving enough water through your Rex Grigg reactor to keep the CO2 level up. Are you using a drop checker with 4.0 KH solution and getting light green?

Green spot algae usually is a sign that my PO4 level is low, you might try the second phase of this thread "Method of controlled imbalances and gda..." where it deals with the GSA that occurs during treatment.

Hair algae is usually a sign that my light is high, my ammonia or nitrite levels are high, or both. I usually cut my light back by at least 33% and if my ammonia /nitrites are high I do frequent water changes until they are back to zero.

Ottos and true Siamese Algae Eaters are my friends!


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## bigstick120 (Mar 8, 2005)

If you have BBA, then your CO2 is low. How are you measuring your CO2? Drop checker with 4dkh is the best/most accurate way to do so. Get that in order and you will be fine.

Every week, remove as much algae as you can, then do weekly water changes, 30-50%, repeat until clear, then 20-30% weekly water changes after that.


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## Carlos1583 (Jul 7, 2006)

Thanks for the responses. I will cut back on the light to combat the algae. I was thinking part of the problems with the plants, especially the limnophilia, was the bottom of the stems are melting/weak and I assumed that there was not enough light. 


TexGal: I slowly increased the CO2 until I noticed the fish were gasping and then I backed off slightly. My concern with excel is the vals melting. Would I have to worry about that or just hope for the best? I do believe I need more plants but I also hate to keep spending money only to lose them for whatever reason. I had many stems of bacopa in the tank and slowly each of them melted at the bottom of the stems. I'll see if I can buy more plants soon to help with the nutrients but I haven't tested my water yet. I'll try to test them this weekend if I can...

Seattle_Aquarist and Bigstick120: I have tried the drop checker and unfortunately it doesn't really work for me. I used 4 Kdh water that I bought online and put it in a red sea CO2 drop checker and the color would never change from yellow. No matter if the Co2 was off the entire night, the drop checker was yellow in the morning. I assumed that because the kH in the tap water is extremely high it takes much more CO2 to saturate the water to the proper levels and I figured the drop checker would not be accurate. I can try again and see if there's a difference.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Your goal of running this tank without fertilization is probably not realistic. Your light levels are simply too high. Without nutrients, your plants won't be able to use all the available light energy no matter how high the CO2 is. Nitrogen deficiency can look a lot like not enough light getting to the lower portions of stem plants.

Many nutrients are mobile. Your plants are probably pulling nutrients from older regions of the plant in an attempt to sustain new growth.

High light and low-maintenance simply can't co-exist. If your primary goal is a beautiful tank with low requirements, cut your light drastically, keep the CO2 going, choose hardy and simple species, and sit back & enjoy.

One of my favorite setups is a 46g tank with SMS substrate, DIY spiral compact-fluorescent lighting, and CO2 addition via a reactor. I trim maybe once every 6 weeks, algae is only occasionally a slight nuisance, and I don't fertilize beyond adding a few micros once every month or so. The tank is full of simple rotalas, hardy stemmies, ferns, crypts, and anubias.


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## Dryn (Sep 6, 2007)

Hang in there. There are all kinds of things to do to combat algae, but don't worry so much. Your tank isn't anywhere close to being settled. It takes months for the water chemistry, soil chemistry, plant chemistry, etc. to reach a balance - and it will do so mostly on its own. During that time, you will always have algae. 

Too much light, too little CO2, too little ferts... No one really knows about the levels in your tank specifically. I've had tanks that had way too much light - like 15 wpg + and absolutely no ferts or CO2 and the tank did awesome... eventually. 

Your tank will find its own balance. For example if there is too much light, chemical reactions will happen within the plants to draw more nutrients out of the soil, which will decompose the soil releasing more CO2 growing more bacteria which in turn release more nutrients... All because the light is higher. Granted eventually the soil will be exhaused but dying plants, dying roots, decaying food, dying microfauna, dying microfloura, etc. will all be adding nutrients and CO2 into the soil and water increasing the amount of available nutrients, etc, etc. 

The point being - you haven't given it enough time!!! I know the algae is ugly, but algae are helping to restore balance by taking out excessive amounts of nutrients, and you're helping to further restore the balance by manually removing the algae - thus removing the excessive nutrients from the system. Given time, the amount of algae will diminish and the plants will take over (with a lot of help from the symbiotic microfauna) and the tank will balance itself out. 

All tanks have some algae because they aren't closed systems (we add food and water) and algae isn't a bad thing. All new tanks have enormous blooms of algae. I know of several very successful aquarists who let the algae rule on its own for a few months while the tank "cycles." Even the ever-famous Amano won't photograph a tank for the first several months. It is a natural part of our hobby.

Believe me - let the tank cycle and reach its own balance. Changing the lights, adding/subtracting ferts, CO2, etc. will only increase the inbalance of the tank. If you keep doing it your tank could never balance out. Do your regular routine (whatever you want to do with the tank) and let the tank do its thing. Don't get me wrong, I still think you should do water changes, feed your fish, and perform routine maintenance by removing any dead leaves, animals, and as much algae as possible because these things are part of maintaining the balance, just don't worry so much and don't give up. Some of the tanks I've done don't look good until the fourth or fifth month. That is just part of the hobby.

I hope this helped a little.


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## bigstick120 (Mar 8, 2005)

That could be your problem, you dont use tap or tank water in the drop checker. Only use the 4 dkh water.



Carlos1583 said:


> Thanks for the responses. I will cut back on the light to combat the algae. I was thinking part of the problems with the plants, especially the limnophilia, was the bottom of the stems are melting/weak and I assumed that there was not enough light.
> 
> TexGal: I slowly increased the CO2 until I noticed the fish were gasping and then I backed off slightly. My concern with excel is the vals melting. Would I have to worry about that or just hope for the best? I do believe I need more plants but I also hate to keep spending money only to lose them for whatever reason. I had many stems of bacopa in the tank and slowly each of them melted at the bottom of the stems. I'll see if I can buy more plants soon to help with the nutrients but I haven't tested my water yet. I'll try to test them this weekend if I can...
> 
> Seattle_Aquarist and Bigstick120: I have tried the drop checker and unfortunately it doesn't really work for me. I used 4 Kdh water that I bought online and put it in a red sea CO2 drop checker and the color would never change from yellow. No matter if the Co2 was off the entire night, the drop checker was yellow in the morning. I assumed that because the kH in the tap water is extremely high it takes much more CO2 to saturate the water to the proper levels and I figured the drop checker would not be accurate. I can try again and see if there's a difference.


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## Carlos1583 (Jul 7, 2006)

Thanks for the encouragement dryn...definitely appreciated. I wouldn't mind the algae so much if the plants were doing better than they are now. Hopefully I can do some changes and start a light fert routine while the tank balances out

Bigstick: I did use 4kdh water for the drop checkers and it was constantly yellow no matter what. I still have plenty of it and I'll see if I can find a drop checker or buy another one and try again. Is there a better one that the redsea version?


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## bigstick120 (Mar 8, 2005)

I use the all glass ones. Green leaf carries them, or check ebay.


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