# Chelators or plain salts ?



## kekon (Aug 1, 2005)

Since i don't have the possibility to buy TMG or Flourish trace ferts now, i decided to use other commercial ferts in my tank. Unfortunatley i have some problems with them. The trace fert i use has much boron and zinc and overdosing these nutrients cause chlorosis on new leaves looking exactly like Fe deficiency desipte dosing Fe and the same time (0,05 ppm Fe daily). Adittionally Fe deficiency makes young levaes to grow smaller.
The Fe deficiency backed off a little when i add 0,3 ppm Fe but it didn't dissapeared completely. When boron and zinc are dosed in smaller amounts then Fe deficiency doesn't show up. I came to the conlusion that i could make my own trace fert but i haven't had good Fe and Mn chelators so far (i have only EDTA ones which are not very good). Seachem states they used such salts as copper sulphate, zinc sulphate (not chelated). I was told that only Fe and Mn need to be chelated but zinc and copper can be in a form of salts (without chelating agents) as they coud be absorbed by plants easier.
What do you think about it ?


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## tayfun (Feb 5, 2010)

i want to know which chelating agents we can use for Fe and Mn too. i have the same problem with chelating my micro elements. they become cloudy when i mix them up. with the EDTA agent.


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

Kekon,

Heavy metals will stay in their target ionic state longer with a chelator, and even when using Copper as a herbicide folks will use chelated stuff, so I'm not sure this is too important. I do not believe most of us see Cu issues in our tanks. Your Zn and B experiments are interesting.

So, since you would rather limit B and Zn instead of increasing Fe, I think small proportions of Cu and Zn in their chelated state would be more efficient. But, if the chelator is too expensive, I would invest that in Fe (and maybe Mn per nfrank's recent thoughts) first.

But this is mostly a thought experiment and was an interesting google trip for me as I have not played with more than Fe and Cu.

tayfun,

Just FYI, Plantex CSM+B (EDTA) and Miller Microplex (DTPA?) get cloudy in solution (Miller less so). Plantex will stay cloudy for at least 15 minutes then dissipate or our eyes adjust. It is ignorable in a tank for most of us though clarity nuts will hate it.


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## deicide (Sep 1, 2009)

I use plain salts for my trace mix with no issues. Manganese Sulfate, Boric Acid , Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Sodium Molybdate, Cobalt Carbonate & DPTA FE being the only chelated trace.

The most important advice I can give with regards to making your trace is to use a highly accurate scale (I failed at my mixes due to inconsistencies until I resolved this problem by purchasing a relatively highend scale accurate to .*001 resolution* Acculab VIC-123 ) Using anything less that a .01 scale is not worth it IMO and will result in a poor inconsistent mix.

Not all tanks are created equal and as such going by the so called 'standard' dosages used by other doesn't mean that it will work for your tank. Tailoring the traces for your needs is important, if you are using tap water which has some traces (usually Zn, CU, FE at higer levels) then optimizing your mix to compensate is wise. If using RO/DI then it makes things easy but keep in mind these are traces and should be dosed as such. Far too often I see users dump FE into their tanks trying to achieve colors and end up with poor plant growth as they some how fail to realize they are dumping in other traces as well  which CAN/WILL cause poor deformed growth... I sadly see it all the time. I'm sure the end user see it too but they either don't have the experience to read the plants or blame everything else (e.g, Co2, K, Ca, or Mg)


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