# Miracle grow question



## Stephen.scott (Apr 10, 2011)

I am starting a planted tank tomorrow, going to use miracle grow for substrate. When I cap it, can I just use the aquarium gravel I already have in the tank, or do I need a finer cap? I have just the gravel you can buy at petsmart. And if I need finer material, where would I find cheap black sand?

Thanks in advance
Stephen


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## fishyjoe24 (May 18, 2010)

you can use pool filter sand, or play ground sand... what I do is oranic top soil, on the bottom, then play sand, then top it with sms or a plant substrate.

I would use new stuff the reason why I say that is because the gravel you have in there now will be caked with bacteria, and could cause an ammonia spike.. what type of lighting do you plan to use?


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Stephen, 

I would highly recommend reading AaronT's article on Mineralized Soil substrates, it will tell you just about everything you need to know about using soil in an aquarium. If you're going to use a Miracle Gro brand mix you need to sift out all the large particles and any fertilizer pellets before getting it wet.

Cheers,
Phil


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

X2 on Phil's advice.

There is an important distinction among the many kinds of MG potting mixes. Most of them have added synthetic fertilizers which are not a good idea. The one you want to use is MiracleGrow Organic Choice potting mix. This one has no synthetic fertilizers. You can get it at Lowe's or Home Depot.

As Phil says, it does have a lot of coarse semi-composted wood particles that will float. You can shift them out when it is dry, or you can soak the soil overnight in a bucket of water and pour off the floaters the next morning. Soaking and draining several times will also remove excess tanins and nutrients.

For the cap, you can use your gravel. Pool filter sand or play sand are too fine, and can create anaerobic conditions in the substrate.

Good luck, and let us know how the tank turns out!

--Michael


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## Stephen.scott (Apr 10, 2011)

Thanks people! I sifted it last night and soaked it. Had a lot of floating debris. Rinced it 4 times, lots of nastiness water came from it. Going to home depot to get a few more buckets and I'll be ready to go!


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## fishyjoe24 (May 18, 2010)

sounds good, let us know if you need help or have any more questions... I think I helped you out a few times on usafishbox a few times with your questions...


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## Stephen.scott (Apr 10, 2011)

Ok so I should have capped it with a finer material and I need some actual plant tweezers... LoL

Just alot of debris and cloudiness after I started planting. Looked ok while filling up with water tho. Gonna let it settle over night. Little water change in the morning and go from there. 

Didn't really plant a specific way, just got the plants planted.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

What you really want with a rich substrate is to help your plant roots in the first 6-10 weeks of the life of the tank. After that all substrates are the same because mulm accumulates in the substrate and makes it good for plants.

If you provide low pH + some organics in the very beginning that's all the plants need. You can do that with peat or with an overly rich substrate like you did. Peat fizzes out in about a month and does not mess up your water when you pull plants.

Unless this organic choice Miracle Grow is weak like peat you will have to deal with a mess every time you uproot a plant. And if you have not done planted tank layouts before you will find yourself pulling plants quite often.

You could have had great results with some peat, activated carbon + an inert cap over them. Or just inert gravel. If everything else is in line in 6 months your plants would not know the difference (from AquaSoil, Mineralized, or any other concoction) because the tank substrate establishes itslelf.

Bottom line - with the rich substrate you have now IF you see some problems (algae) just start changing water more often. The problems will be due to the substrate leeching who knows what in the water and/or bad filtration. Also if you find yourself having to add liquid fertilizers in the water then you know something is way off because rich substrates are supposed to provide everything.

--Nikolay


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## Markw78 (May 6, 2004)

I topped mine with ec, I wanted a fine grained jet black substrate.


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## Stephen.scott (Apr 10, 2011)

Yes first planted tank, went from plants in clay pots to what I have now! Got a generous helping of plants from crownman, who has several nice tanks, and good start of crypt from ekrindul, who also has nice tanks! I have read alot of articles, thought I'd get my hands at it.


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## fishyjoe24 (May 18, 2010)

sounds good, I think I helped you a few times with your questions I'm planted tank dude on usafishbox. good to see members helping the newbies out...


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Ah! Here's a funny picture I found today. 160 gallon tank:










What's funny about it? The gravel is 100% inert sand.

Yes, that is a Lotus. Yes, that is Glosso. Yes, there is Blyxa. They all have fat hungry roots wanting food from the substrate.

For the people that don't get my sense of humor - as I've said a million times before: There's AquaSoil and there's everything else. "Everything else" cannot beat inert gravel. Fancy packaging, funky names, lots of claims, zero advantage.

And as I've said before - results with AquaSoil over time are close to inert gravel.

Funny, eh?

...And for those obsessed with flow/filtration - that 160 gal. tank on the picture uses a measly 340 gph canister filter. More about that during the meeting dedicated to filtraton. In a couple of months 

--Nikolay


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

I've had similar results with Flourite, which is basically inert. AquaSoil's nice, but to be honest, I prefer an inert substrate with a little soil/organic matter amendment at the bottom. 

What a gorgeous aquarium!


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Score another one for Niko!


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## Stephen.scott (Apr 10, 2011)

Did a big water change, went from water polisher filter to charcoal and floss, and real clean water now! Im gonna put the spray bar on the hot mag, alot of surface agitation!


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## fishyjoe24 (May 18, 2010)

looking good.. rock and roll mcdonalds..

that 160g niko found looks real good.


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## Ekrindul (Jul 3, 2010)

Phil Edwards said:


> I've had similar results with Flourite, which is basically inert. AquaSoil's nice, but to be honest, I prefer an inert substrate with a little soil/organic matter amendment at the bottom.
> 
> What a gorgeous aquarium!


Phil,

How much research is there that substantiates that aquatics grow large root systems to obtain nutrients versus their need to anchor themselves due to environment (slow/fast current)? I have been able to find only a few papers on the subject, but my impression was that aquatics seem to actually use their root systems for nutrient uptake only when they cannot acquire what they need from the water column, as individual leaves fared better with the immediacy of water column uptake versus waiting for the roots to "get to them", so to speak. And that plants with large root systems tend to be found in environments where current is heavy. Where current isn't heavy, plants don't waste energy building root systems. My personal experience, regarding plant health, has been that substrate doesn't seem to matter at all if the water column is dosed, but I'm curious if there is any scientific research that agrees with my own observations.


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