# Aquabotanic [AVOID AT ALL COSTS]



## Sugar Cone (Jan 2, 2010)

I can tell you I will never ever ever even consider ordering through aquabotanic again. For anything. Ever.

I ordered two weeks ago and nothing has shipped. I canceled my order by sending a fairly nasty email telling them exactly what I think about their business. So I called and asked to have it canceled as well, in a pointed manner. I tried to call back and he answered the phone screaming "What do you want [name]?! **** you!" and hung up. I proceeded to call, and call, and call, and call until he picked up again at which time he answered screaming "What the **** do you want, Jew-boy?!" And when I responded, he continued his anti-semitic tirade. "Why dont you get you Jew hook-nose out of your ass and...." (Im not sure what followed). When I confronted him, he stittered like a moron and stumbled over his own insults. Not too surprising for someone of his small-mindedness.

I can promise that Ill be calling the BBB (not that they would be a member with CS like that) and any and all organizations that deal with antisemitism. I route all my calls through Grand Central on my computer and I have audio recordings of everything that was said. The thing is, Im not even Jewish! lol.

Anyway, thats my input. And you can bet Ill be starting a thread about this on each and every forum where I am a member.

I would really hope that you guys wouldnt support someone with this kind of attitude towards any minority. I really hope that you guys are as responsible as you seem to be.

Thanks.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Its too bad about your experience. It used to be a good source for plants. My last order, which will be my last order, was very disappointing. Very poorly packaged, dirty and snail infested. One of the plants I ordered was Blyxa japonica and he sent me what appeared to be Blyxa novoguineensis. He insisted it was japonica. It doesnt matter as it and the auberti didnt make it most likely due to being poorly packaged. I guess I was lucky I dealt with him via email.

You will actually do better with buying from members right here.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Sugar Cone,

Noone cares about negative comments. I used to be vocal about things like that and over the years I learned - there's no use. Everybody is fine and dandy when things are good. Rarely anyone speaks about their bad experiences. Threads like that are forgotten quickly. On some forums they are just deleted.

That's how it is. 

Newt is right - deal only with other hobbyists or with companies that give you a full guarantee if something goes wrong. Before ordering ask if something goes wrong if they refund the shipping charges too.

--Nikolay


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## Sugar Cone (Jan 2, 2010)

@Newt, Im sure youre right and you can bet that this will indeed be my first (and hopefully only) stop for plants from here on out.

@niko, thanks for the heads up on that. Honestly, thats too bad. If people would pay attention to this kind of thing, maybe the businesses would lose some money and they would be interested in making a change. As it is, if no one cares, the business will just continue whatever bad practices they are ingaging in. Thats really disappointing.

Well, either way, Im glad I got to tell you guys my story. I hope it doesnt get deleted, because maybe then theyll want to change something.


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## StillLearning (Feb 3, 2010)

Sugar Cone said:


> I route all my calls through Grand Central on my computer and I have audio recordings of everything that was said. The thing is, Im not even Jewish! lol.


Why not post the recording then? There is always two sides to the story so it could of worked both ways. This thread might get the boot though since they do sponsor a few forums. Thanks for your input though glad I never went there.



niko said:


> Noone cares about negative comments. I used to be vocal about things like that and over the years I learned - there's no use. Everybody is fine and dandy when things are good. Rarely anyone speaks about their bad experiences. Threads like that are forgotten quickly. On some forums they are just deleted.


Bad Mood? I wouldnt say they dont care cause I have read this alot lately on Aquabotanic and others have been vocal about them as well. But indeed if they are putting money in your pocket you would erase the comments as well. I dont think its right they are erased its feedback even if it is good or bad.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

So sorry this happened to you. We have been directly in your shoes! It's always best, IMO to deal with hobbyists. On this forum you can check the itrader rating for people. 

Here at APC we don't condone that sort of tirade. We ban people for talking like that. We try to rehabilitate them to the forum rules first but if that doesn't work they have to go. 

Word of mouth is the best and the worst advertising a business can get!


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## edwardn (Nov 8, 2008)

Sugar Cone said:


> I can tell you I will never ever ever even consider ordering through aquabotanic again. For anything. Ever.
> 
> I ordered two weeks ago and nothing has shipped. I canceled my order by sending a fairly nasty email telling them exactly what I think about their business. So I called and asked to have it canceled as well, in a pointed manner. I tried to call back and he answered the phone screaming "What do you want [name]?! **** you!" and hung up. I proceeded to call, and call, and call, and call until he picked up again at which time he answered screaming "What the **** do you want, Jew-boy?!" And when I responded, he continued his anti-semitic tirade. "Why dont you get you Jew hook-nose out of your ass and...." (Im not sure what followed). When I confronted him, he stittered like a moron and stumbled over his own insults. Not too surprising for someone of his small-mindedness.
> 
> ...


Hej, Sugar Cone, is that the famous sponsor of 'The Planted Tank' forum? If so, copy your post and place it there...


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## StillLearning (Feb 3, 2010)

edwardn said:


> Hej, Sugar Cone, is that the famous sponsor of 'The Planted Tank' forum? If so, copy your post and place it there...


It would last all of two mins there. They erase everything and if it deals with there sponsors the ban hammer might come fairly quick.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

StillLearning said:


> It would last all of two mins there. They erase everything and if it deals with there sponsors the ban hammer might come fairly quick.


That's one of the reasons I dont bother with TPT. Plus a lot of members are rude.

It really baffles me :frusty: as to why so many APC members have switched to TPT. This site offers so much more.:tea:


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## StillLearning (Feb 3, 2010)

Newt said:


> That's one of the reasons I dont bother with TPT. Plus a lot of members are rude.
> 
> It really baffles me :frusty: as to why so many APC members have switched to TPT. This site offers so much more.:tea:


Yeah Im not sure whats up over there but it seems sometimes you have to watch what you say from one site to another as well. Mods shouldnt be allowed on one site if there Mods on the other cause of personally feelings and such. I know a few people who were banned from this site cause a member on that site didnt get along with them or they had a disagreement and there now a mod on this site so they got the ban hammer. Shame that people feel the need to ban people cause they dont get along with someone. But I dont wanna jack this thread cause I use this name on both and I could be the next one :-#


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## Ahura-sama (Sep 5, 2008)

First order was great but second order was half doggone.

Excellent parvas but horrible HC. 1/4 was usable. After 2 days all three browned completely.

I usually recommend AB because they have good and rare stuffs, but I'd probab reconsider in that in the future.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

StillLearning said:


> Yeah Im not sure whats up over there but it seems sometimes you have to watch what you say from one site to another as well. Mods shouldnt be allowed on one site if there Mods on the other cause of personally feelings and such. I know a few people who were banned from this site cause a member on that site didnt get along with them or they had a disagreement and there now a mod on this site so they got the ban hammer. Shame that people feel the need to ban people cause they dont get along with someone. But I dont wanna jack this thread cause I use this name on both and I could be the next one :-#


When I was a moderator here it was never about us versus them. TPT and APC both have something to offer the hobby. Many of the mods there are my good friends that I talk to on a regular basis. If I was having trouble with a particular member here I would always give them a heads up to keep an eye on the person. Banning was never taken lightly by either site and still isn't.

No one is trying to infringe on your right to speak your mind, however, when I joined this forum I agreed to follow the rules therein. That's all they're trying to enforce. To make sure we stay on topic and avoid controversial and off-topic discussions that lead to flame wars. If the mods were too easy on everyone people would complain as well. Nobody wants to visit a site where they have to sift through ranting and raving that doesn't belong there.

Have a little faith in your friendly neighborhood moderator. They do it because they love this hobby and they love the people that contribute to it. They're on your side.


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## StillLearning (Feb 3, 2010)

AaronT said:


> When I was a moderator here it was never about us versus them. TPT and APC both have something to offer the hobby. Many of the mods there are my good friends that I talk to on a regular basis. If I was having trouble with a particular member here I would always give them a heads up to keep an eye on the person. Banning was never taken lightly by either site and still isn't.


See that is where I think the line should be drawn. I don't feel what happens on this site should even be passed to that site and vice versa. They are two separate sites they should be kept that way in my opinion. Hard feelings from one site should not be brought to another site and they seem to be sometimes. I was having a talk with a member from TPT who cant even come to this site no more cause he was banned cause him and a member from TPT dont get along and the member from TPT is a mod on this site so he banned him. That is where I think things are wrong. In the end members of both sites lose out when that happens.



AaronT said:


> No one is trying to infringe on your right to speak your mind, however, when I joined this forum I agreed to follow the rules therein. That's all they're trying to enforce. To make sure we stay on topic and avoid controversial and off-topic discussions that lead to flame wars. If the mods were too easy on everyone people would complain as well. Nobody wants to visit a site where they have to sift through ranting and raving that doesn't belong there.


I think its great they allow you to even post these topics here and speak your mind cause on TPT they dont last long and it almost seems like they try to sweep the dirt under the rug.. How are they suppose to know if a member is scamming people or even didnt do what he stated if they lock the thread and delete them? I hope this site stays the way it is and dont sell out.



AaronT said:


> Have a little faith in your friendly neighborhood moderator. They do it because they love this hobby and they love the people that contribute to it. They're on your side.


I have no problems personally at all with any of them I dont know them to judge them so I wont. I know what its like to run a site and to be a mod also and it sucks at times.

Thanks for having a open discussion and not closing the threads here. Its nice that it can be done for once. Hope no one takes my comments the wrong way either.


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## ashappard (Jun 3, 2006)

StillLearning said:


> See that is where I think the line should be drawn. I don't feel what happens on this site should even be passed to that site and vice versa. They are two separate sites they should be kept that way in my opinion. Hard feelings from one site should not be brought to another site and they seem to be sometimes. I was having a talk with a member from TPT who cant even come to this site no more cause he was banned cause him and a member from TPT dont get along and the member from TPT is a mod on this site so he banned him. That is where I think things are wrong. In the end members of both sites lose out when that happens.


through the hobby, many people end up knowing each other personally over the years. Some end up running businesses related to the hobby or modding forums. I know some TPT people as well, and even though that forum is different in its current mix/makeup I recognize the value of it and other plant forums. Its funny to see an us/them situation or a 'hidden conspiracy' eluded to, not singling you out StillLearning - I just see or hear it sometimes. Mods communicate between the sites, either as common courtesy or just friendly chat. There is no APC hobby / TPT hobby, these guys would know each other and collaborate even if the two forums disappeared tomorrow.

its hard to know which specific situation you are mentioning above - there are many similar and they are rarely as cut and dry as laid out  
forum dramas - some people seem to feed on them. blah.

I'll agree with the sentiment about the fact that negative reviews do stay up on APC. Not fortunate for the site's owners but fortunate for us, APC isnt heavily sponsored and not user funded. So it can make a difference for the better in content and modding freedom as well.


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## billb1 (May 29, 2009)

*I ordered two weeks ago and nothing has shipped. I canceled my order by sending a fairly nasty email telling them exactly what I think about their business. So I called and asked to have it canceled as well, in a pointed manner.* I tried to call back and he answered the phone screaming "What do you want [name]?! **** you!" and hung up. I proceeded to call, and call, and call, and call until he picked up again at which time he answered screaming "What the **** do you want, Jew-boy?!" And when I responded, he continued his anti-semitic tirade. "Why dont you get you Jew hook-nose out of your ass and...." (Im not sure what followed). When I confronted him, he stittered like a moron and stumbled over his own insults. Not too surprising for someone of his small-mindedness.

All right, I do not condone the actions of this vendor. Those comments are indefensible. I do want to play devils advocate here how ever.
Your actions are provocative as well. If you do not recieve satisfactory service from a vendor - cancel the order and spend your money else where. You were out to punish this guy and, frankly, I think you bear some responsibility for this incident too.


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## bosmahe1 (May 14, 2005)

The vendor should be professional and adult enough to, *not* respond in such an unreasonable way to unpolite emails and phone calls. In a retail business, you have to learn to deal with unhappy customers.

My question to the OP is, why would you expect a favorable response to the "nasty" email and phone call? You should have explained the reason for your dissatisfaction and your wish to cancel the transaction. Generally, displaying anger gets a similar response. Usually not as bad as the vendor displayed but, you can't expect a favorable reaction to nasty emails and phone calls.

That being said, I'm glad you posted this and he will never see any of my money. What he said was unbelievable and ignorant.


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## bigstick120 (Mar 8, 2005)

StillLearning said:


> I was having a talk with a member from TPT who cant even come to this site no more cause he was banned cause him and a member from TPT dont get along and the member from TPT is a mod on this site so he banned him.


I dont think this person is being honest with you, we dont just ban people for reasons like this. We ban people for spamming and repeated offenses of forum rules.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm a member of APC, used to be on TPT. I've had great experiences with most of the members on TPT, but I've found there's a ton of drama floating around. A few of the staff seem content to harass members who challenge the ideas of their senior members as well. I'll be honest, I find a portion of the staff and the owner of TPT to enjoy over-policing and maintaining their own cliques. I'm here because this site doesn't tend to over-police, the staff members don't run personal vendettas (that I've seen or know of at least), and there's productive conversation without heavy subtext.

Aquabotanic is slow to ship and it's a long ways coming here from southeast asia. English is a second language for their staff, and politeness isn't always there. I accept this company for what it is, and as such restrict my orders to cheap/simple equipment. They've had their customer service issues with export licenses and customs, so try to stay away from the plants if you don't want to get fined.


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## DarioDario (Nov 14, 2008)

Philosophos said:


> I'm a member of APC, used to be on TPT. I've had great experiences with most of the members on TPT, but I've found there's a ton of drama floating around. A few of the staff seem content to harass members who challenge the ideas of their senior members as well. I'll be honest, I find a portion of the staff and the owner of TPT to enjoy over-policing and maintaining their own cliques. I'm here because this site doesn't tend to over-police, the staff members don't run personal vendettas (that I've seen or know of at least), and there's productive conversation without heavy subtext.


ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU +++++
There is one MOD there in particular .... UGHHHH disgusting


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## ashappard (Jun 3, 2006)

you sling some mud and you are bound to get a little dirty.
most of us expect a vendor to rise above that kind of behavior, but with some it may be easy to push their buttons and get an equally nasty response.

if your communication to a vendor needs to have **** in several places for it to be posted on a public forum, you probably are pushing their buttons.. I think its been established that some vendors are less than capable at professional interaction / grace under pressure / rising above name calling. Thats unfortunate, but its a two-way street.

as angry as I've ever been with a vendor, I cant imagine sending them profanity laced tirades.  and I would be equally confused to receive something like that from a vendor.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

So why isn't Robert Hudson (Aquabotanic) here to clarify the situation?


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## StillLearning (Feb 3, 2010)

bigstick120 said:


> I dont think this person is being honest with you, we dont just ban people for reasons like this. We ban people for spamming and repeated offenses of forum rules.


I know 100% for a fact they are. I watched things go down on TPT and then the member was banned on this site a few hours later. But I was bringing to light things not trying to keep dwelling on them.



Philosophos said:


> I'm a member of APC, used to be on TPT. I've had great experiences with most of the members on TPT, but I've found there's a ton of drama floating around. A few of the staff seem content to harass members who challenge the ideas of their senior members as well. I'll be honest, I find a portion of the staff and the owner of TPT to enjoy over-policing and maintaining their own cliques. I'm here because this site doesn't tend to over-police, the staff members don't run personal vendettas (that I've seen or know of at least), and there's productive conversation without heavy subtext.


Philosophos I dont think it could of been said any better. My feelings over there are sometimes your nothing if your name is not colored which means $$$ to them. Its nice that for once you can talk about things and not get banned over it.


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## ashappard (Jun 3, 2006)

StillLearning said:


> I know 100% for a fact they are. I watched things go down on TPT and then the member was banned on this site a few hours later. But I was bringing to light things not trying to keep dwelling on them..


thats a stretch, and still I have no idea what you are discussing. 
without seeing the mod interactions behind the scenes how can you really know you have the whole story? we don't ban or request bans of people over cross-site grudges. There would be a lot of bans (unfortunately)

oh, the wild interwebs!


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

StillLearning said:


> I know 100% for a fact they are. I watched things go down on TPT and then the member was banned on this site a few hours later. But I was bringing to light things not trying to keep dwelling on them.


Nonsense. There is always a reason for a banning, even if you don't know the whole story. You just don't know what happened here as well, so please don't go speculating and posting it here as fact.


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## StillLearning (Feb 3, 2010)

Cavan Allen said:


> Nonsense. There is always a reason for a banning, even if you don't know the whole story. You just don't know what happened here as well, so please don't go speculating and posting it here as fact.


I would only post it when I know its a fact other then that I have no reason to stand behind any of them when I dont know them. I know what I saw with my own eyes and tried to even stop before it happened. I dont like being made out to be a liar when I sat there and saw the convo get ugly on TPT and then the member was banned on this site. I dont know either member personally but do know what happened since I was replying to the thread where it started. But I will leave it at that if a admin wish to send me a message I will explain it more to them.


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## ashappard (Jun 3, 2006)

StillLearning said:


> I would only post it when I know its a fact other then that I have no reason to stand behind any of them when I dont know them. I know what I saw with my own eyes and tried to even stop before it happened. I dont like being made out to be a liar when I sat there and saw the convo get ugly on TPT and then the member was banned on this site. I dont know either member personally but do know what happened since I was replying to the thread where it started. But I will leave it at that if a admin wish to send me a message I will explain it more to them.


sigh. PM sent.

I'm compelled to hear more, but that wont erase the past speculation and insinuation on this matter, as if an invisible hand is working behind the scenes using secret rules.. That is not the case people. Cooler heads typically prevail and rule violations are what get a person banned. 

I only ask that if you are satisfied after our conversation, you will publicly say so. nobody is calling you a liar - we just squint at whats being presented, and have no idea what you are talking about.


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## ashappard (Jun 3, 2006)

scratch that. PM not sent.
you have that functionality disabled. 

I'm not an Admin, cant force a message to you.
StillLearning, lets take a deep breath - try to assume that you may not know all the facts on this mysterious issue and if you wish, enable PM and get in contact with me or another mod to discuss.

cheers.


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## StillLearning (Feb 3, 2010)

ashappard said:


> sigh. PM sent.
> 
> I'm compelled to hear more, but that wont erase the past speculation and insinuation on this matter, as if an invisible hand is working behind the scenes using secret rules.. That is not the case people. Cooler heads typically prevail and rule violations are what get a person banned.
> 
> I only ask that if you are satisfied after our conversation, you will publicly say so. nobody is calling you a liar - we just squint at whats being presented, and have no idea what you are talking about.


I rather deal with a admin this way the mods dont get all heated like they started to and claim its nonsense right away instead of waiting to hear facts before making judgments..


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## ashappard (Jun 3, 2006)

well, no facts were presented.
but suit yourself. I'm starting to feel like I'm getting baited here. I know I should have had coffee before checking forums.

this one's all yours Bryce


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## alta678 (Mar 24, 2009)

I am fairly new to this site. All sites seem to have their share of heated opinions and drama. That said, back to the topic at hand, I am glad to know about Aquabotanic. I had considered ordering from them recently. I will stick with my local club which has been SO generous in sharing cuttings and teaching me about planted aquariums. Thanks and hats off to DFWAPC! Thanks Niko for persuading me to join!


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

StillLearning said:


> I rather deal with a admin this way the mods dont get all heated like they started to and claim its nonsense right away instead of waiting to hear facts before making judgments..


Heated? No. You've made a bunch of vague assertions with no facts to back them up, as if you could possibly have them anyway. If you'd like to talk to Bryce about it, then please do, but that's the end of it here. And this thread. We've all got better things to do than get mired down in something like this.


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