# Can this tank be revived?



## Angie (Dec 4, 2005)

I really really do not want to break it down. I did some trimming this morning but think the java moss needs to go and want to do a light valcum off the top of the gravel. Can I save this tank? or Do I have to break it down and start over? 
20 gallon did have 32 watts of light as of today had 20 and as you can see it get indirect light from window.
Not sure how many fish, they keep breeding, and I have not culled any but well be moving the WCMM to my 29 in a few days and Ill cull some of the other fish then.
I did a major trim but think more needs to come out and I also put on a filter with some carbon to get rid of the smell. This tank had been running without one for the past month. 
Have not added any ferts just feed the fish daily and doing 50 percent weekly water changes after the filter went down. Before that only did a water change once a month. Also plan to start thinning out those snails and remember to remove the eggs this time. lol
So what do you think?


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## jaidexl (Jan 20, 2007)

I would say yes but I guess it depends how long it's been setup (?)

Can you describe the smell, is it like sulfur?


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## Angie (Dec 4, 2005)

This tank was set up in Oct 2007.
The smell is almost gone. It smelled like Prime does when I had some of it go bad. Not sure if that is sulfur or not but no it did not smell like rotten eggs. It just smelled like swamp? As least that is what I remember swamp smelling like been a while. 
But the smell is almost gone now. Really want to do a water change but don't want to upset things anymore then I have today.


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## jaidexl (Jan 20, 2007)

Well, to me Prime smells like sulfur / rotten eggs. If that's what your tank smelled like then I would guess it had some pretty bad nitrogenous buildup and anaerobic pockets, and you might have seen some black nasties in the substrate, maybe big bubbles rising from it. But your tank hasn't been up for long, I would personally consider it newly established or just getting there at 6mo. If anaerobics are the problem, you just need to do some good vacuuming and maybe increase the flow if it's lacking, you don't want to blast the water column, though.

If it's just a swamp smell, I wouldn't worry about it, keep up with normal husbandry, water changes etc. I would try to tame the water change volume down to allow about 10ppm nitrate to remain at all times. There's a chance your large water changes are stripping nutrients, but you know your parameters and husbandry schedule better than I do. I'm sure the fish are contributing.

I would personally add a lot more plants.

Is that brown diatoms on the glass (wipes off easily)? Have you ever see any ammonia or nitrite spikes?

Do you know your ammonia and nitrite levels now?


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## Angie (Dec 4, 2005)

Have never done a water test. lol Guess I run over and do it right now. But ewwww I bet it is awful.
The fist are so pretty and such great color for those little guys I just never did it. 
I was hoping the black stuff on the gravel was the soil coming up. I be back shortly with results some of those test take a few minutes as I am sure you know.
Well this is not good.
Ph is 6.8 however there is some driftwood in that tank.
Nitrate and Nitrite is 0
Ammonia is way to high it is 1.0 However I did have a few dead and dying plants in there so this does not surprise me. Hopefully very light vacuum of the gravel I have planed for tomorrow well go a long way in helping this come back down.
Do not have any other test cause those are the only things I know how to fix and usually if you get those in line the rest are too.


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## jaidexl (Jan 20, 2007)

Hmm, how much cleaning have you done so far and how many fish do you have?

Ammonia should be at zero and there should be a good level of nitrates present. 

There's three possibilities:

1. the tank was fully cycled at one point but you over cleaned gravel/over water changed and destroyed some of your biofilter causing a mini cycle, the water change would account for no nitrate

2. the tank was never cycled due to having no filter for circulation, and is still in the process of trying to cycle but hasn't yet produced nitrites.

3. the tank is cycled, the 50% water changes removed the nitrates, and there are too many fish creating too much ammonia for the biofilter.

Hopefully it's number three because that's the easiest one to fix by removing some fish.

The only way to know for sure is test and log every day, and look for nitrites to appear, if they do then the tank is trying to cycle. Remove some fish if there are more than ten in there. If it's the fish than the ammonia spikes should go away after thinning out the populous. 

In the meantime, do back to back 20% water changes, only scooped from the surface, until ammonia is at or below 0.25ppm. Do them daily to keep it there if it spikes back up.

I wouldn't touch the gravel, glass or decor at this point, if you haven't already, you could upset an already stressed biofilter. Leave the filter alone too, better to avoid tinkering w/ things until you're sure the tank is fully cycled.


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## jaidexl (Jan 20, 2007)

Ahh, something else. 

Test for ammonia in your tap water (if that's what you're putting in the tank).

It's also very possible that the tank is fully cycled and the 50% changes added the ammonia from the tap. It's pretty common to have amm in the tap and pretty easy to deal with. Mine has 2ppm amm and 4ppm nI.


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## Angie (Dec 4, 2005)

Yes there are more then 10 fish in there always has been. My problem is all the decaying plants. 
I can't remove any fish till the lid shows up for my 29 gallon. But I guess I could cull some of the babies that I don't plan to move.
The filter has only been down for a month. And it had been cycled before I quit taking care of it.
I never cleaned the gravel no way to do that with soil/gravel mix and keep the soil on the bottom.
I still have a good bit of decaying plants on the bottom so I well do a water change and try to suck some of it out and remove some fish now.
Thanks for all your help and ideas on how to save this tank.


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## peteski312 (Feb 15, 2008)

Best advice would be to put a back ground on to block the sunlight, plant a few more plant to starve the algae and a couple weekly water changes everyweek should get you on the right track. Later on with more plants find a fert schedule that works out for you. Good luck


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## Angie (Dec 4, 2005)

Hmm I already downgraded the light to 20 watts. I can close the blinds. I just trimmed the plants it was over half full of crypt leaves. When they come back should be more then enough. If not I can get more.
Working on removing some of the snails. They have gone wild. lol must have at least 50 trumpets and rams in there. They come with some of the plants.
Just set up a snail trap to get the population down.


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## jaidexl (Jan 20, 2007)

peteski312 said:


> block the sunlight, find a fert schedule


This is a low tech tank (Walstad type if I'm not mistaken?), so those to points are out of the question, at least the fert part is. I don't see a problem w/ the sunlight, there only seems to be diatoms and that's probably related to the ammonia and maybe _low_ light if anything.

Angie, I hope you're right about the plants being the culprit, that would be the easy fix. IME the fish are usually more of an impact than dead plants, especially if they're breeding in the tank. Just do what you can to get the ammonia in check I suppose, and keep an eye out for nitrites. If you see them then you know you'll be in for at least a week or more of cycling. Removing a filter can definitely kill off the biofilter, but I'm hoping that's not the case because it can be a pain with fish in the tank.

Having capped soil could have very well caused some smellies. You might want to try and probe around in it every so often with a skewer, while trying not to upset too much. Malaysian trumpet snails can help there too. I don't think it's a reason to break the whole tank down, you just need to get your parameters in check somehow, that's all. The diatoms should pass on their own once the ammonia is dealt with.


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## Angie (Dec 4, 2005)

Yep a Walstad style tank. I have removed several fish some are not being easy to catch but well keep at it. Look like I am down to about 12 or 15 now. I'll keep tring to catch some more. I have tons of snails. lol
Did a 20 percent water change going to test again and do anouther before bed. And remove some snails I hope.


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