# [Wet Thumb Forum]-SELL SELL SELL



## wanda (Jan 10, 2005)

Why o why do pet stores over sell you fish?

Don't they realize you will get smart and maybe not come back? I feel like My intelligence was insulted, when they told me I could have 5 goldies in a 10 gallon. What hooey.

I had bought 3 and a catfish. Now I have 2.

Of course I am now going to have to go back and buy a 30 gallon with a new filter and new everything

Not that I dont love my fishies. Im just mad.


I mean I will probably get a nice little bunch of schooling fish for the 10 gallon when I make the move.


Reccomendations?


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## wanda (Jan 10, 2005)

Why o why do pet stores over sell you fish?

Don't they realize you will get smart and maybe not come back? I feel like My intelligence was insulted, when they told me I could have 5 goldies in a 10 gallon. What hooey.

I had bought 3 and a catfish. Now I have 2.

Of course I am now going to have to go back and buy a 30 gallon with a new filter and new everything

Not that I dont love my fishies. Im just mad.


I mean I will probably get a nice little bunch of schooling fish for the 10 gallon when I make the move.


Reccomendations?


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

small fish like tetra usually make your tank look bigger.


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## m4d5c1ent15t (Feb 1, 2005)

If you need recommadations on a 30 gallon here are some:

buying the tank at the store with the stand is usually a good idea. (It takes alot of time, money, and knowledge to build one yourself.)

Don't buy your filter at the store. They're always overpriced. Shop online. You'll find that canister filters are a favorite of most people and i am one of those people. I have a hang on filter (tetratec pf500) it is occuping a nice little space in my closet not filtering water. Not that it was a bad filter, it was just more a hassle than my canister filter.

Canister filter: 
pros- quiet, hidden in stand, less cleanings, last a long time, Efficient.
cons- cost (though if you chop around or look on forums you can find a good deal) and well thats about it i guess

brands: eheim, fluval, rena filstar,marineland

hang on powe filters:
pros- price, and if you have no room under tank then they fit comfortably on the tank

cons- loud (if water level drops), need more cleanings, and a little harder to clean, if you pu them on the tank some people find that they don't like the look of them

brands:emperor, tetratec, marineland, ehiem

Note that there is a hang on tank canister filter from marineland. If you like the idea of a canister filter but want to hand it on you tank this one is for you. I use one and it works like a champ. Its called the H.O.T magnum, how clever.
heres a link: http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=22139&category_id=2981&pcid1=2885

Diatom filters are cleaner filters and are not to be run continuously.
Wet/dry filters are not recommended if you have a budget.
If you plan ahead enough you can do a sump. 
heres a link: http://www.melevsreef.com/ 
marine water link but you can get the idea of how a sump works.

If you plan to have a planted tank then substrate (gravel) is important.

I have used 50% Flourite and 50% Onyx and have had success with it. You can find different mixes and homemade receipes for substrate and i'll leave that up to the reader since i have no idea if you want a planted tank.
Advice: Plants help not only in producing oxygen for your fish they also contribute to the recycling of waste. They help with ph levels and the nitrogen cycle.
In my personal experience plants become as big a part of your tank and cared for as much as your fish.

The most important advice is plan your tank. You can buy it all at once if you are the type that likes to put it all togather but first look at different tanks, get ideas, picture what it is going to look like(draw plans if that helps you), then buy it all.

Also DO NOT introduce fish into your tank when you first get the tank. The nitrogen cycle has to stabilize before you add fish. If the person at any store tells you different call them a idiot. You will find many posts on the nitrogen cycle on this site and online. You can get testing strips to check your ph, nitrite, nitrate, hardness, alkalinity, and ammonia. When these are where they need to be add fish. Different type of fish need different type of water temperament. Do your research on the fish you want and make sure they share the same water temperament, as well as to make sure they won't eat each other.

there are different types of tanks (refering to types of fish):
tropical -tetras, barbs, gourami, mollys(which i have had share a tank before) 
also angel fish and Discus though these require very good conditions and i do not recommend these for beginners.
cichlid- more colorful, marine looking fish that get much larger then tropical fish. very aggressive and territorial.

Plants can be placed in both these tanks but you will have to look at what plants will like each type. Again, _Do your research, make a list, pick fish plants and equipment to match each other, plan, plan, plan ahead. _

All this is simple adivice form a normal guy who probably made all the mistakes one can as a newbie to this and has learned alot. If my typing is bad i apologize. More importantly if my advice is wrong, please respond. And if you got a question please ask and i'll answer it to the best of my ablilty. Hope i helped good luck


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## Anutter (Feb 1, 2005)

I have to agree with the previous poster about planning. It has been the most difficult thing for me to actually do, because I've wanted to enjoy my tanks from the very minute I decided to set them up again (they have been empty for almost 4 years since a move cross-country. However, I've researched and planned many things since this past October and have gradually been buying new equipment. And I still haven't made all of my decisions. But I am so glad I've planned these tanks (a 30gT and a 20gL)because I've completely gone in a different direction than I first thought. I have also appreciated the advice I've found in these forums, both to my own questions and to other topics.

I'd love to see what you do with your 30G, so please post again when you make your decisions. I hope to have at least one of my tanks up and going by the end of this month.







And I'll share photos then.


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## Anutter (Feb 1, 2005)

Oops I forgot to add my original thought about this thread.







You were first talking about your store trying to oversell you fish. Well I know one of my LFS does the same thing. I went in just to check out their selection and they have a wonderful collection of saltwater stuff, but very little freshwater. When I told someone I was focusing on a planted freshwater tank they actually suggested going ahead & getting the fish I was interested in. Now granted they were having a great sale on their fish at the time (I could have gotten 2 beautiful Bosemanis for under $4 for the pair), but I felt they completely ignored my interest in stabilizing my plants first and I had no where to put these fish in the meantime. Then I found out they were selling off all freshwater to focus completely on saltwater. How disappointing.


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## wanda (Jan 10, 2005)

Thankyou for that great advice especially on the filters.

On my first 10 gallon I waited a month with the plants in it before adding the fish. For a stand I took an old shelf set and bought lots of metal parts and really made that sucker stable with some handywork My roomate and I combined sat on it for 10 minutes (about 375 lbs)

Im a good girl and change their water weekly, vacuum the botom in the blank spots etc.

I am going to plant the 30 gallon, order my plants first and lets it settle for a while then move My little precios fishies over.

Quite honestly I am putting it on top of my very solid dresser that I found on the street, I mean this thing is a monster. I am not in a situation where I can have a stand , I live in a room in the city that is 8' by 10' and its my whole world LOL

as for petland on 14th st and b, they are generally honest and I like them, I have returned a few things with no issue, but they arent THAT knowledgeable, but still are trying and I think a few of the kids are very into their fish hobbies. I pointed them to this board and printed ouit some goldie info for a clerk who was quite suprised when reading the 10 gallon to a goldie rule.

The one guy who did push me into the goldies now hides.

how would I manage a canister filter on my dresser? Is it big and ugly? How big is it?


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## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

What does your dresser look like? If it has open-spaced rooms then you can place the filter right below the tank at another level. Speaking of levels, how many are there on your dresser? Also, with the long tubings of the filter, you might not be able to lean the dresser completely against the wall. So it will be a good idea to leave few inches of space between the dresser and the wall so the tubings can go through. And the size of the filter will depend on you. For a 30 gal, a suitable filter shouldn't be that big; bulky and unsightly. Other friends were right; don't ever get filters at your LFS. Do some homework and research on-line first. Good luck


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## wanda (Jan 10, 2005)

My Dresser is a big 5.5' tall oak antique. I cant even believe I found it.

I am definately going to get the canister filter just because they are goldies and changing the water constantly ( sometimes I do 2 times a week at this point) is tireing.

Why do people add bicarbonate of soda to their tanks?

I'm Imagining Me with 5 gallon buckets all over my room airing out all the time and having no where to walk.

I guess I have to do my research on the filters, I really did do lots of research on having a tank while setting up the last one but I didnt get much help till I found this place.

Maybe a canister filter can be on the floor BEHIND the dresser?

Maybe I should take some pictures and post.


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## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

wanda, you've come to the right place. I think planted tanks are a wonderful hobby to keep, and there should be no reason why we can't help one another to better our skills. Having said that, yes, your canister filter would definitely fare better sitting on the floor. As long as it is leveled it will provide stability; I don't think your floor is like desert terrain?!







And what about adding bicarbonate to the tank? Are you talking about CO2 tank? Bicarbonate of soda? This one I am not so sure about. The only 'soda' I add is to my DIY CO2 set up and that is baking soda; purpose is to stabilize the pH fluctuation coming from the gas. As for the filter, you wouldn't add diddly-squat to it. Just the basic filter media; activated carbon and ceramic ring are two prime examples. Yes, a picture would be nice when you've got everything set up.


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## FISA (Feb 17, 2005)

Hey there....

Are you talking about Sodium Bicarbonate ? (Baking Soda)...

People add that to their tanks if their tap water is soft so that they can buffer their water and bring up the KH ( Carbonate Hardness )

This is especially important when injecting CO2...if the tap water is very soft and low KH...it could cause a PH crash...killing all your fishies...


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## wanda (Jan 10, 2005)

This is a really costly hobby to start up and I can only go so fast, so the goldies just have to suffer a little bit longer before my next paycheck in two weeks. They seem quite chipper.

I'm finding out what a chemist you really have to be to get it right, I actually feel like slamming my head against the wall.

I really do want to get some kind of rythm down with it all.

thanks for answering th bicarbonate question and the warm welcome from all.

I AM having PH crashes and ammonia fluxes. Im sure it is still cycling.

Everything effects everything else and I havent even gotten down PH ammonia never mind all the other dittily tubes and shakes and bits Im supposed to be keeping an eye on.

FRUSTRATING.

But they look cute.


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## McKee (Feb 7, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by russell:
> small fish like tetra usually make your tank look bigger.


Brine shrimp make the tank look like a SWIMMING POOL!


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## Sockfish (Dec 6, 2004)

Wanda,

Hi--your apartment sounds like my bedroom! I have 3 aquariums in there. My own darling (tiny) goldies live in an 8gal biOrb and my planted tank is a 12g nano cube with tetras and a serial killer Betta. I was afraid the goldies would EAT the planted tank in a day...

Now I want a BIG planted tank but don't have a clue as to where to put it. I wonder if a stand would have enough room to put my clothes in?

Seriously--I appreciate the advice about buying the filters for tanks elsewhere. Good to know if I ever jump to a biggie size!

Figs


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## Sultanita (Feb 24, 2005)

Hmm...
You guys make it sound like it is a complete science. My idea is to do all low-tech low-maintenance, and of course, I have barely started like 2 weeks ago.

I have my one plant on regular aquarium gravel with no nothing else, and a betta, in a 1 gallon. Reading all this, I feel like my plant is gonna die along with my fish.

Am I missing something?


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## Sockfish (Dec 6, 2004)

Sultanita,

My guess is that the plant in with your betta will only thrive for so long without a little more to live on in the substrate. 

My own bettas each have 2 gallon glass drums with some eco-complete on the bottom and lots of my extra plants for cover. I looks great and they're doing great. I splash in some liquid fertilizer once in a while, and am not very scientific about it. Natural daylight only.

The El Naturel forum can guide you with lo-tech for real!

Figs


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## Sultanita (Feb 24, 2005)

The problem with my tank in my betta is that it does NOT get natural light... I am afraid of adding stuff to feed the plant and killing my fish.

I will look for "El Naturel" because I am really bad about getting all geeked out about plants. My plant seems to be doing great, and my betta loves hiding around it... one day, I will have a camera, and post it here.


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