# I collected these crypts. ID please?



## AteItOffTheFloor (Oct 8, 2014)

I went fishing today and got nowt. Unwisely I went for a swim while waiting for the fish to bite. Swam to the other bank and as I reached about 2' water levels I stepped on a pile of dead leaves. Kept trodding them as I made my way to the bank. I pulled some up. They looked purple.

It hit me like a speeding fat guy: CRYPTS!!!!

Now I saw that the reason I couldn't see the substrate in some parts was because of just how much carpeting they were doing. In some parts they actually formed weirs spanning a quarter of the river's width.

I didn't feel at all guilty about taking a few. No pics of their habitat (except in my head where they will be forever cherished) because all I had was my phone, and I wasn't going to swim in a 10' of moving water with it.

These are the ones I collected. They really are as dark purple as they seem to be in the pics. Is this ust because of natural sunlight + unlimited nutrients from river water or are they permanently like that?

I've planted them in a shallow tub of water out in the full sun. Substrate is just plain ol river mud mixed with river sand.

You might think this is a lot ,but its not even a fraction of what was growing. there. Oh boy, what a day 


















Thanks for reading, and if you know what species it is please let me know


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Where exactly? Take a look at this.
http://crypts.home.xs4all.nl/Cryptocoryne/Countries/Malaya.html


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## AteItOffTheFloor (Oct 8, 2014)

I'm from Malaysia, so it's one of the Malayan species.

But those pics are mostly of their flowers, and these were growing 2' underwater...


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## AteItOffTheFloor (Oct 8, 2014)

Ooops, I should be more specific. These are West Malaysian waters I'm in.

And I just found out how to view the full profile. Excuse my dumbness.


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## AteItOffTheFloor (Oct 8, 2014)

With my location in mind, and rather matching pics, I'm inclined to say I've got C. affinis?


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Does it look like this? 
http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/a/AFF/Selangor/leaf/


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## AteItOffTheFloor (Oct 8, 2014)

You crypt guys are mad scary. 

Looks to be spot on. Do you think they'll appreciate high light?


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

You'll need smarter people than me to tell you how to grow it. I'm sure some will be along in a bit. The sun just came up here. 
What is the light like in the river? 

I'm thinking you will need to send me some of this for further verification!


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## AteItOffTheFloor (Oct 8, 2014)

There was enough of it to make it worth your while to get a plane ticket to Malaysia 

I'd say it was a clearwater river. The really deep places were naturally a very scary and ominous black green (I'm actually getting goosebumps thinking I swam in that) but I'd say up to the 4' level light was good. The flow where the plants were was really quite fast. If it had been 1' higher I would have had serious trouble moving. Just how do these things get started anyways? I imagine a single plant would be swept away faster than most players who try to play Ronnie O'Sullivan 

Wasn't shaded by overhanging trees or anything. It grew up till the 1' level then stopped. 

In retrospect, there was althernacara growing, but I got so excited about seeing wild crypts for the first time I completely ignored them. And now the regret is seeping in


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Check these out. 
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/cryptocorynes/48635-cryptocoryne-affinis-selangor.html

http://yoongbk.blogspot.com/

If I am going to fly out there you will need to find the rest of these first!


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## AteItOffTheFloor (Oct 8, 2014)

Probably can't find B. macrostoma, but have found loads of other betta species. I release any fish I find back into the water as I know I probably can't give them what they need. 

As for the crypts, I know this IS the crypt section, but there are loads of other plant species here that I absolutely drool over. Including the much underrated hygrophila augustifolia.


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## hobbes1911 (Oct 19, 2009)

Sounds like it a more neutral/alkaline system, and the collection of West Malaysia sounds about right. However, I am just guessing based on your description as it doesn't sound like there are tannic acids in the water.

See if this gives you a bit more of a clue. 
http://crypts.home.xs4all.nl/Cryptocoryne/Gallery/aff/aff.html


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## AteItOffTheFloor (Oct 8, 2014)

It would have been at the very least neutral. 

Not too fussed about pH though, as I'm only keeping platies with my plants. The platies would breed in a toilet bowl, and the plants can adapt - or die!


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

I'd agree that it's affinis. Affinis likes minerals in the water so it should grow well in any tap water.


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## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

Even though I know the plant for most of my life, I have never seen it in nature: you are very lucky!

From aquarium expecience I can tell that there is a big difference between clones in how much light they can stand, in any case I would avoid the miday sun, also because it can warm up the water too much. But you have seen them in nature and can compare what your particular plants are used to. I put my _C. affinis _in reduced light: even the two normal TL tubes above my aquarium are too much for some clones and I have put some plastic net around them to have less light. I think that some clones can stand high light, but also one of the reasons that this plant is hardly grown anymore is that they do much better in some kind of half-shadow. Modern aquariums simply have too much light for them.

In the aquarium I find that they do much better when there is water current, but it doesn't really matter how much. Standing water in a tub may not be the best (but I have grown some crypts in the summer outdoors in a tub with standing water, it might also work).

For this species there is no need to take much from nature. A small bit does equally well as a lot of plants and eventually you anyway get more of it (or not, but then a large amount of plants doesn't help either - it all depends on the environment you give it).

I am very interested to hear if you manage to get it to flowering. Overe here (Europe) we have _C. affinis_ flowering in aquariums from time to time, and also when we grow them above water, but I don't know of any method that increases the chance for flowering. For now it seems a coincidence and you can cultivate healthy _C. affinis _for decades without ever seeing a flower.


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## AteItOffTheFloor (Oct 8, 2014)

illustrator said:


> Even though I know the plant for most of my life, I have never seen it in nature: you are very lucky!
> 
> From aquarium expecience I can tell that there is a big difference between clones in how much light they can stand, in any case I would avoid the miday sun, also because it can warm up the water too much. But you have seen them in nature and can compare what your particular plants are used to. I put my _C. affinis _in reduced light: even the two normal TL tubes above my aquarium are too much for some clones and I have put some plastic net around them to have less light. I think that some clones can stand high light, but also one of the reasons that this plant is hardly grown anymore is that they do much better in some kind of half-shadow. Modern aquariums simply have too much light for them.
> 
> ...


Hi man, thanks for your comment.

Can't provide moving water, as the outside tub is nowhere near a power outlet. I'm not going to collect for myself any more. IF what I have grows, then great, but if they melt and don't grow back, then I'm good. No point in taking more. However, if any of my friends wants some, and I know they're serious and not just trying to get free plants they won't appreciate, I'll get some for them.

And as for flowering them...well, if you think that high light increases their chances for flowering I'll try that. Already doing something similar with Echinodorus palaefolius. But you need to understand that I'm not much of a crypt fan - I like them, but even if they don't flower, I'll still be content with them liking the conditions I give them enough to grow.


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## AteItOffTheFloor (Oct 8, 2014)

Well, they're pearling, so thats a good sign innit?


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## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

That can also be a sign of very fresh water (with high preasure out of a pipe) releasing gass ...

Mine in the aquarium never pearl - but then again they also very rarely flower. I have a dark variety of _C. affinis_ which develops very damaged leaves with holes in them under normal aquarium light, but which grows beautifully in somewhat dimmed light (can also be underneath other plants - for some time I had a big _C. usteriana_ providing shadow, untill this _C. usteriana_ grew so big that it was no longer fitting in the aquarium. _C. usteriana_ can have leaves of 60 cm and more ... ).

Just look if the young leaves grow normally and you'll see soon enough if there is too much light.


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## AteItOffTheFloor (Oct 8, 2014)

This is difinitely not fresh water  And they pearl when the other plants are pearling as well. I checked early this morning and there were no bubbles, checked in the afternoon and there were bubbles. Water is stagnant and haven't added anything for a few days.

Mine are also quite dark. They're actually more red than purple. Maybe we have the same ones?

When I read 60cm I thought you meant _*crinum*_ lmao was nicely surprised.
I checked out some pics of usteriana and daym that thing gets big enough to make a nice salad.

I will look out for new leaves. Gonna let them get settled in first though.


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## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

It is impossible to really tell which varieties of _C. affinis _I have. I searched and asked around a lot and by now I got 7 different ones. One is what we call the "old clone" over here, the famous "_Cryptocoryne haertelliana_", from this plant we know when it was imported but not from where and it has never been found again in nature. I obtained that plant several times from different European countries, but in fact it is a rare plant which can be very hard to obtain.

Another may well be the plant called "metallic red", if so the origin would be known. But since I got it without any name, I can't be certain untill I grow it side-by-side with one with a certain identification.

Then there is one which I got as "giant affinis", with a collection number from Jan Bastmeijer. However, he got the plant from another enthousiast and it is also an aquarium-plant without locality data. To my surprise it is not the largest one I have, I got an even larger one from the old aquarium of Leipzig ZOO. In the ZOO it didn't look exceptionally large, only when they grow side-by-side in the same environment it is possible to compare Cryptocoryne ...

Like that it is possible to tell something about each one, but it doesn't help much as they are just plants which circulate between hobbyists for so long that the real origin is forgotten.

I actually got one one more some weeks ago, surprisingly from a half-forgotten aquarium in a local petshop where it was growing "for ages". It is rather stunted and all stunted/neglected affinis can look very similar to me. In some months I can tell if it is the same as one I already have or, hopefully, yet another clone. Again, without any data.

I feel like I am collecting bits of an aquarium-history-book here, but only pictures and the accompanying text is largely lost ... I have grown most of the common _Cryptocoryne_-from-trade at one time or another, but I have so much fun collecting different _C. affinis _that I am now kind of specializing in growing this one species.


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## AteItOffTheFloor (Oct 8, 2014)

That's very cool. But I'm not that hung up over unidentified crypts  so if mine grow I'll be happy enough. 

Might be an odd question, but can a single specimen live forever?


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## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

It is not an odd question at all. The "old" _C. affinis _is imported by the firm Haertel in Germany in 1939. From then on it is all the time propagated by runners and it is still equally healthy as it was back then. Genetically, these plants are still the same. So in this sense it appears that a single (genetic) specimen can live for a very long time indeed.

About a single plant: I think that it can also live for many, many years, but very slowly it gets a kind of "stem" as the main (very short) stem/tip of the rhizome keeps growing. So every now and then I would plant it a bit deeper and if this becomes difficult just cut of the lower part of the rhizome and replant the upper part.

Contrary to what you often read, it is not a problem to replant _C. affinis _every now and then. I would not do it every week, but 2 or 3 times a year is no problem at all. At replanting I cut of (or tear of) big parts of the roots because it is very difficult to put 15 cm long and very thin roots in the ground. I leave just enough to make sure that it does not get loose (so say 4 cm of roots) and throw away the rest. They continue growing without any visible effect.

I have made them "melt" once, as experiment: when I shut of the filter the conditions in the aquarium quickly worsened and all leaves died. Otherwise I don't see any "melt" at all. Also not with new _C. affinis _obtained from very different aquarium-circumstances.


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