# American made vs off shore.



## TAB (Feb 7, 2009)

Lately i have been looking to buy products that are made some where other than china. I understand cheap labor, but if you had a choice would you buy something made in say the usa vs china? Even if the cost was 10-25% more?

The more i look at products for aquariums, the more i think about actually starting a company to build odds and ends in the us


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

We buy things made in China because they are sold at a cheaper price. If we were willing to pay higher prices for the same things, just to keep the manufacturing in the USA, we would have done that years ago. Or, "we have met the enemy and he is us."


----------



## ukamikazu (Jun 4, 2010)

If it was 1) non-toxic, 2) sustainably produced, 3) had interchangeable & 4) field replaceable parts and the company treated its employees well with livable compensation and 5) competent management that tended towards the teachings of Dr. W. Edwards Deming, then yes, I would happily pay more. Perhaps even a lot more. But that's just me: I'm willing to pay more for the right thing, at the right time that has a very long service life, lower overall cost of maintenance and a killer warranty or guarantee. Stretch goals would be robust yet elegant design.


----------



## TAB (Feb 7, 2009)

That is the problem, we dont really have thr option. Also some of the prices i see companies aelling products for compared what you can buy the same product for is a mark up of well north of 500%. Just for a fancy box. Many products are clearly made in the same factory " at night". Some even have embossed logos on them, and are not from said company. Which i know is a very big deal with dealing with China.

It seems to me that if an american company would actually produce products here they would sell based strickly on american made alone. Dont get me wrong something will never be pratical to make in the us from a cost/ environmental aspect of it, but others could be. For not much more then big name companies are importing products and slaping thier name on them.


Edit, recently i have been looking at dymax ss lily pipes that sell for $80. There are knock offs that people i know compared them side by side and can not tell the difference. Only in packs of 1 dozen they are just under 11 each shipped. I have littke doubt they are coming from the same factory. Maybe they are rejects, or maybe after hours. They could also be a different grade of ss. That stuff i dont know, but that is a pretty huge difference in price. I am very tempted to order both and see for myself. I am not knocking dymax in any way. Nor am i singling them out. Counterfeit products are a huge issue coming from china


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Germans make good aquarium products, EHEIM.
Even if the products are 'made/assembled' in the USA, I bet 90% of the parts of that product are made in China, like our cars. It's a world economy.


----------



## TAB (Feb 7, 2009)

Thats what i would like to avoid. We have more than enough cnc manufactoring base to build small stuff.. its things like injection moulding that is $$$$ for both the tooling and environmental controls.


----------



## tiger15 (Apr 9, 2017)

TAB said:


> Lately i have been looking to buy products that are made some where other than china. I understand cheap labor, but if you had a choice would you buy something made in say the usa vs china? Even if the cost was 10-25% more?
> 
> The more i look at products for aquariums, the more i think about actually starting a company to build odds and ends in the us


It will be difficult to compete with China in aquarium products. There are 10x more hobbyists in China 100x bigger fish markets in every big city, and more innovative products to meet local demand.

Today, China no longer enjoys the lowest labor costs in comparison to SE Asia and Africa, but makes many good quality products notwithstanding some poor quality counterfeits for quick profit. Unlike US, China has a large motivated work force, no dependency on welfare, and capitalists there are willing to accept low profit margins to gain market.


----------



## EdWiser (Apr 16, 2018)

The average hobbyist wants cheap equipment. So that is going to come from China. Have been in the hobby for 56 years and don’t look at price but quality and support from the companies I purchase my aquarium equipment. So I buy Japanese and German aquarium equipment. The only USA made Aqurium equipment are large aquariums and sumps made from acrylic. Most of these are made for the saltwater hobby.


----------



## ethermion (Feb 28, 2012)

Silly old thread. Apologies for waking it. I help out at a local fish store, and have some observations.

Ecotech Marine makes Radion and AI lights in the USA. Also their Vectra and Versa pumps . Nice stuff, if a bit spendy.

Kessil lights, also nice, if a bit spendy stuff, are made in Taiwan.

Seapora and Aqueon tanks are made domestically, but the glass comes from China - so tanks are in very short supply these days.

Eheim stuff is often made in Germany or other parts of the E.U. We sell a TON of made in Germany Eheim/Jager heaters. The Pro 4 canister filters are made in Germany, the green cylinder Classics are Chinese. We are discontinuing sale of the Classics. 

AquaClear HOB filters - nice stuff - are made in Italy.

All Hydor stuff, like Koralia pumps are (I think) all made in Germany, or other parts of the E.U.

Oase is made in Germany.

Sicce, also nice stuff, is Italy and other parts of the E.U.

Pro-Clear and Trigger sumps (we sell a lot) are USA made.

Bulkheads, loc-line stuff is domestic.

Neptune's Apex automation gear (for the Salty guys) is made in USA.

Hikari frozen and freeze dried foods are Chinese, and we are moving away from that. Hikari dry foods are all from Japan.

Sera foods (good stuff) are German.

Bug Bites (very popular) are Canadian.

San Francisco Bay Brand freeze dried krill are from Antarctica (really!).

Hanna water testers (colorimeters, pH, salinity, temp meters) are made in Romania.

Salifert test kits from Holland.

Brightwell, Seachem, API and other bottled/packet medications/perperations, etc are almost universally of USA origin. We sell a TON of that stuff.

Chemi-Pure (Boyd Enterprises) is all USA origin.

A lot of freshwater fish are imported from SE Asia, but not necessarily from China. A lot of freshwater fish are also aquacultured in Florida.

We sell a ton of live plants, and all the plants are domestic.

Sure, silly little low tech things like nets, stick on thermometers, sponge filters, plastic plants and pedestrian lighting are all Chinese. Oh, and the dreaded sunken ghost ship is Chinese too.

So.........., anyway............., your fish room doesn't have to be a pile of Chinese stuff if you don't want it to be. If you don't buy the lowest price cheapest quality stuff, you would be surprised how much comes from somewhere else.

And, I was made in USA, as were my 4 kids and 2 grand kids. Great stuff is still made here!


----------



## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Good information!


----------



## EdWiser (Apr 16, 2018)

Kessil made in USA.

http://www.kessil.com/aquarium/story.php

Their largest market is Hydroponics.


----------



## ethermion (Feb 28, 2012)

What you hear on the Internet is not always a faithful reflection of reality.

I have some Kessil stuff in hand. Light, mounting arm, controller, all made in Taiwan. What's inside, I dunno. Taiwan is 100% okay with me, so much that I doing Kessil's at home for a new freshwater tank.

Hydroponics? Dunno 'bout that neither. Awfully spendy for growing fruits and veggies, or even decorative plants. Maybe growing weed? Told Seachem that the number one theft item in our store is Excel. Seachem dude told me people use Excel to grow weed. Could be, could be. I suspect he was just kidding, though.

Flourite, Eco-Complete, and Stratum (we sell a lot of that stuff) are all made in USA too. As is my favorite substrate - dirt from my yard.


----------



## EdWiser (Apr 16, 2018)

I talk to Kessil all the time. The LED’s are made in the US am sure there are bits made over seas. 
I think customers want cheap aquarium equipment. An made in the USA is not going to be cheap equipment.


----------

