# How to treat R/O water........?



## michaelg210 (Jul 7, 2010)

Hello, I am thankful for your site. I just switched to R/O due to high nitrates in tap water, ~ 20ppm. I keep a single male betta in a 10G filtered / heated tank with a gravel bed. 

My question is, I started using R/O Right by Kent Marine to restore water quality and replenish trace minerals / elements. Do I need something additional, i.e. Seachem Fresh Trace, or does R/O right contain everything the tank needs? Are R/O right and Seachem's Equilibrium the same basic thing? (I could not find Equilibrium anywhere locally, so went with Kent).

Tank also has 6 plants, 3 java ferns, 2 crypts, and an anubia.

I was worried about minerals, so added Aqueon's Betta Water Renewal, but would rather use a more concentrated product if it is even needed.... Aqueons small 118 ml bottle requires 10 ML per gallon, which seems very high......... and won't last long either. 

Any advice appreciated. 

Thanks


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## michaelg210 (Jul 7, 2010)

ahhh, anyone? Hello...... Hello...... [*tap tap*] zisthingon?


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## michaelg210 (Jul 7, 2010)

*do NOT reply to this post.... whatever you do........*

...................op2:


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi michaelg210,

Tom Barr spoke at GSAS this month and one of the subjects we discussed was soft water. He suggested not to worry about the dKH but to add sufficient "Booster" to bring the dGH up to about 5.0. I like to use Seachem Equilibrium to add the necessary nutrients (including Micros) to very soft (or RO) water.


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## michaelg210 (Jul 7, 2010)

..............................


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## michaelg210 (Jul 7, 2010)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi michaelg210,
> 
> Tom Barr spoke at GSAS this month and one of the subjects we discussed was soft water. He suggested not to worry about the dKH but to add sufficient "Booster" to bring the dGH up to about 5.0. I like to use Seachem Equilibrium to add the necessary nutrients (including Micros) to very soft (or RO) water.


Excuse my ignorance, sorry to be such a pest.

i had to look up a few things to understand ur reply. Guess i need to get an API GH / KH test kit.

what exactly is "booster" and how do i know what is sufficient? I assume you mean R/O treatments as boosters; therefore, add enough R/O right or Equilibrium to raise general hardness to 5.0?

How is it Kent's R/O Right different than Equilibruim? All i have found is Seachem claims Kent's product contains sodium chloride, which can be detrimental to plants.... only other thing i found was there is no iron (Fe?) in R/O right. However, I am able to obtain Kent's R/O products in my area, but not Seachem's R/O or Trace Element products, no one carries them, at least not for fresh water.

One last thing: you say Equilibrium adds necessary nutrients (including micros?). Kent tech support told me R/O has everything I need.... Seachem's tech support told me i might want to add Fresh Trace in conjunction with Equilibrium, (in a separate email not on my web mail) or Replenish in a community tank (see below)

It does restore minerals to the water. It contains the basis of general 
hardness and also adds trace minerals to the water. When different salts are 
purified, there are certain "contaminants" or better yet "remnant" components 
still present in the salt. These remnants are in very small concentrations which 
is how they also occur in nature. 
> If you are doing regular water changes using RO right then there is no need to 
use the elements. However if you are only doing one change a month or every 
couple to few weeks then you will want to use a supplement. 
> 
> Regards, 
> 
> 
> Rob Moneyhan 
> Central Aquatics Tech Lead​
Hello, 
> If you are 
> looking for a product to replace minerals in your RO 
> water, then you have 2 options. If you have live plants, 
> then you should go with the Equilibrium, as it is 
> specifically designed to replace the appropriate minerals 
> for healthy plant growth. If you have a community only 
> tank, then you can go with the Replenish. Both are great 
> mineral replacement products and should be used at every 
> water change. If you would like to read more about them 
> please follow the links below: 
> 
> http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Replenish.html 
> http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Equilibrium.html 
>​
again, sorry to be such a pain, I am rather new to this. Seems the learning never stops....... [almost even interested in chemistry for the first time in my life, (well a little) ]...but with my job don't have the time for it.


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## JERP (Feb 4, 2003)

alternatively, you can use Amquel+ on your tap water to "fix" the nitrates. then you wont have to bother with RO.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi michaelg210,



> i had to look up a few things to understand ur reply. Guess i need to get an API GH / KH test kit.


A very good idea, or just get a GH test kit if you would like.



> what exactly is "booster" and how do i know what is sufficient? I assume you mean R/O treatments as boosters; therefore, add enough R/O right or Equilibrium to raise general hardness to 5.0?


Correct again! There are many "GH Booster" products out there. They add mineral to the R/O water (or soft water) to increase the hardness. A good GH reading for a planted aquarium is about 5.0 dGH.

Keep in mind however, that GH Boosters are not fertilizer. Many contain one of the three Macro nutrients (Potassium) but they do not add the nitrogen or phosphorus that the plants need for growth.


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## michaelg210 (Jul 7, 2010)

JERP said:


> alternatively, you can use Amquel+ on your tap water to "fix" the nitrates. then you wont have to bother with RO.


so basically the nitrates are present and the bacerial colony intact but the product binds the toxins in the nitrate so they don't harm the fish? Kinda like prime is supposed to do with ammonia? (Though I have read somewhere during my zygote stage that prime's bond is actually short term rather than permanent)


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## michaelg210 (Jul 7, 2010)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> just get a GH test kit if you would like.
> 
> There are many "GH Booster" products out there. They add mineral to the R/O water (or soft water) to increase the hardness. A good GH reading for a planted aquarium is about 5.0 dGH.
> 
> however GH Boosters are not fertilizer. Many contain one of the three Macro nutrients (Potassium) but they do not add the nitrogen or phosphorus that the plants need for growth.


Ahh-so, thus (now) i begin to see, Macro vs Micro Nutrients.... so the 4 basic ingredients of the R/O treatment are macro elements / nutrients......such as Calcium, Magnesium, Posassium, and micro is more like specific minerals, such as iron, or zinc or something.

nitrogen / phosphorus... nothing to do with nitrates / phosphates?


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Macros = N, P, K (Legally the term 'fertilizer' is a product that contains one or more of these three items)
N: (NO3, NH3, NH4+, NO2) Most aquariums get it from fish food, but when the tap water is that high it is better to lock it up or remove some before a water change. 
P: (PO4) Lots of this in fish food. If your tank regularly reads OK for NO3 from fish food, then it is likely there is enough PO4, too. 
K: is the macro most often missing, not usually available in fish food or tap water. 

Micros:
All the other minerals. RO removes them all (well, 99%) so supplements are important. Plants use some traces in larger amounts than others. Ca, Mg, Fe and a few others are the more important ones. 
Fish food has some. (But 1 Betta in a 10 gallon will not need that much food)
Fertilizer tablets may have some (read the label). Great for most rooted plants. 
CSM+B is a good supplement for the micro nutrients that plants use less of. I have not read the label on Kent RO right for a long time. If it has a long list of minerals, then it is probably OK, too. 

When you are starting with RO water you will usually replace the 
Ca, Mg, and a few other minerals that the plants use the most of with every water change, but not worry about the smaller traces so much. Use a fertilizer supplement that has these other minerals. If the one product that you use for water changes has them all, then no need to add more as 'fertilizer'. 

Using something like Seachem Equilibrium or Barr's GH booster to attain the GH that is appropriate for your fish will supply enough Ca, Mg, and probably enough K and some other minerals, but not much of the 'others'.

Recap:
To replace the minerals lost to the RO filter I would read the label on the product you are using. It it is mostly calcium, magnesium, and potassium with other minerals in smaller amounts, then use it to make a GH test read right. (Bettas are pretty adaptable, I would aim for a GH between 3-5 degrees)
Add enough baking soda to make the KH match the GH within a degree or 2. 
Use a supplement like CSM+B for all the other micros if your product does not already have them. 
Maybe have to add a bit more iron. Some GH boosters have enough, CSM+B has a small amount. 
With 1 Betta in the tank do not count on fish food as a fertilizer.

To deal with the NO3 in the tap water:
1) RO
2) Set up a separate tank that is plants only. Put tap water in there, and when the plants have removed most of the NO3 use this water for the Betta. (Nice excuse for another tank!)

Dechlorinators:
Best deal is on Prime (Which also locks up NO3) or chloramine Buster (Which does not). 
But if you are using RO water with fairly new filter cartridges then it should remove the chlorine or chloramine anyway. 
Do not waste money on dechlor that has 'slime coat enhancers', 'electrolytes', 'vitamins' or anything else. Just dechlor. Just a couple of cents per 10 gallons of treated water.


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## michaelg210 (Jul 7, 2010)

Diana K said:


> Macros = N, P, K (Legally the term 'fertilizer' is a product that contains one or more of these three items)......


Wow, thanks for typing the time to explain all of that. I will have to digest this later at home, (and *more *looking up) so I will know what to do. I appreciate all your advice. I am sure I will be back with first a better understanding and them perhaps more questions.


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## michaelg210 (Jul 7, 2010)

*Back with a GH / KH test Kit.....Re: How to treat R/O water........?*



Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi michaelg210,
> 
> A very good idea, or just get a GH test kit if you would like.
> 
> ...


I tested for GH, and it took 7 drops to complete the test

KH was 6 drops

PH is at about 8.0 - 8.1

so, does this mean my KH is 6 and my GH is 7? So I would need to do another pwc to get my GH to 5?

I also bought some Seachem Flourish Tabs and put about 6 of them in the tank.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi michaelg210,



> does this mean my KH is 6 and my GH is 7? So I would need to do another pwc to get my GH to 5?


Yes, to both of those questions. I use Flourish Tabs as well, but they do have calcium and magnesium in them so as they dissolve they do add to the GH.


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## michaelg210 (Jul 7, 2010)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Yes, to both of those questions. I use Flourish Tabs as well, but they do have calcium and magnesium in them so as they dissolve they do add to the GH.[/QUOTE
> 
> So then should i be using less R/O right? R/O right adds hardness, correct? Plus the flourish tabs.....if i cut my R/O in half, it should reduce both my GH and KH? You said, 5 is about right for a planted tank.
> 
> Insofar as the ultimate betta perameters, not sure, Diana K advised shoot for 3-5... it would seem I do not even need to use R/O right hardly at all then to acheive that GH. Guess I should test the R/O water first to see where it is at?


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## michaelg210 (Jul 7, 2010)

*Let me clarify that......Re: How to treat R/O water........?*

Clarifying the original post below...... originally it probably made no sense.



michaelg210 said:


> Seattle_Aquarist said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, to both of those questions. I use Flourish Tabs as well, but they do have calcium and magnesium in them so as they dissolve they do add to the GH.[/QUOTE
> ...


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## michaelg210 (Jul 7, 2010)

*@Diana K........Re: How to treat R/O water........?*



Diana K said:


> Macros = N, P, K (Legally the term 'fertilizer' is a product that contains one or more of these three items)...........elipted for space: ....


I printed your post and as time permits want to research all of the terms I do not understand so I can ask questions once I do.

I will be back with more questions, however, my job takes almost all of my waking hours, (and what's left the wife and daughter need), so please be patient with me....


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## michaelg210 (Jul 7, 2010)

*Finally got this understood, sorry, new at this...Re: How to treat R/O water........?*



Diana K said:


> Macros = N, P, K (Legally the term 'fertilizer' is a product that contains one or more of these three items)
> N: (NO3, NH3, NH4+, NO2) Most aquariums get it from fish food, but when the tap water is that high it is better to lock it up or remove some before a water change.
> P: (PO4) Lots of this in fish food. If your tank regularly reads OK for NO3 from fish food, then it is likely there is enough PO4, too.
> K: is the macro most often missing, not usually available in fish food or tap water.
> ...


@Diana:

Latest on water perameters:

PH 7.4 - 7.8
GH 9
KH 4
AM--0
NI--0
NA 5

wondering if the KH is a bit low.... you mentioned using baking soda (which i have since also read about ) to up the KH.... what is the mixture? i.e. X tsp per gallons= x KH points upward?

*also, Kent Marine's R/O Right, is basically salts*, 
CALCIUM SALTS (10043-52-4) < 0 - 20
CARBONIC SALTS (144-55- < 0 - 20
MAGNESIUM SALTS (7786-30-3) < 0 - 20
SODIUM SALTS (7647-14-5) < 0 - 40
SULFATES (7757-82-6) < 0 - 20

Kent's tech support will only provide the msds info other than the comment below: 
It does restore minerals to the water. It contains the basis of general 
hardness and also adds trace minerals to the water. When different salts are 
purified, there are certain "contaminants" or better yet "remnant" components 
still present in the salt. These remnants are in very small concentrations which 
is how they also occur in nature. 
> If you are doing regular water changes using RO right then there is no need to 
use the elements. However if you are only doing one change a month or every 
couple to few weeks then you will want to use a supplement.​
I have since added a dwarf pleco for algae control, but his impact on the boi bacteria is minimal, (though he poops like a race horse).

I also added a little dechlorinated (Prime) water, about 1 G to the tank last night, cuz i ran out of R/O water and everyone was closed... but I did want some of the minerals and silicates in there, just a bit worried about PH, tap is at 8.3 last I checked, and with a KH of 4 did not want too large a swing on the tank, sitting at 7.4 - 7.8. (See I *have *been learning since ur last post)

I am, however still unclear on the micro / trace nutrients. Looked up CSM+B, which appears mostly for plant nitrients, or is it the same for both plants and tank, i.e. fish?

Insofar as potassium, K, should i look for something that has potassium and micro nutrients or just go with a CSM + B or similar product?


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## Bunnie1978 (Sep 29, 2009)

I mix my own booster based loosely on estimative index dosing. I purchase the elements mostly from www.greenleafaquariums.com or www.aquariumfertilizer.com

I use the following recipe:

1 part KH2PO4
1 part CSM+B
1 part K2SO4
1 part Iron (DPTA chelator is best, at Green Leaf)
1 part CaSO4
1 part MgSO4
3 parts KNO3

Mix together dry ferts, dose at 1/4 tsp per 10 gallons. Using this method, I end up with about 30ppm total hardness. If I don't do a high number of water changes, I just add a little more midweek to supplement the plants, but I also use soil capped with flourite for substrate, so I don't usually need to. I try to run my tanks lean.


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## michaelg210 (Jul 7, 2010)

Bunnie1978 said:


> I mix my own booster based loosely on estimative index dosing. I purchase the elements mostly from www.greenleafaquariums.com or www.aquariumfertilizer.com
> 
> I use the following recipe:
> 
> ...


Great, another 3 days of research....... jk.......... I admire that, but fear it is a bit over my head. I could (and would love to learn) it, but my job takes all my time, and then there is my family. (Wife is jealous of the tank).

Either way, what I am most concerned with is if Kent Marine's R/O Right is all I need for the tank? i.e. do i need other trace elements or minerals? Tank also has plants, but am more worried about the fish. Can't seem to get a straight answer out of Kent's tech support.

Specifically, mineral/electrolyte replenishment, or incorrect or lacking chemistry necessary for bio function.

Can you tell me if I should be using something else, i.e. Seachem's replenish or some other product?

If so, is it good for just the fish, just the plants, or both? (Or do i need two products?)


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## Bunnie1978 (Sep 29, 2009)

I would do two things... R/O right, and then a fertilizer such as Flourish comprehensive. That takes care of everything, in my experience. As you get time, you can learn how to mix things yourself as I am to save $$$


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## michaelg210 (Jul 7, 2010)

Bunnie1978 said:


> I would do two things... R/O right, and then a fertilizer such as Flourish comprehensive. That takes care of everything, in my experience. As you get time, you can learn how to mix things yourself as I am to save $$$


Awesome, thanks for the advice.

regards,
mjg


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