# help me see the light on light matters



## eylk (Dec 15, 2007)

Hello,

I had the idea of learning and starting a planted tank with a T5 light. Being an 'intelligent' customer, i decided to read up more on it before rushing to get myself one. I had a better understanding of aquarium light which in turn, brings about more questions and honestly.... agony!!

Im just gonna go on a rant here and spam my questions, I hope experts here can help me out. (Save me!) !!! BE WARNED : This is possibly the most lengthy newbie thread you have ever came across! !!!!

First of all, Jargons:

Incandescent?

UVA? UVB?

Actinic and Infrared? I can roughly understand that actinic has something to do with blue (about 10000k?) and is usually used for reef tanks.

Gallons... US gallons right?
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Am I getting it right?

Watts per gallon is just a general rule and so is Kevins. We really should be looking at 400-700NM, peaking in red and blue and lumens, realated to PAR and PUR. Kevins is color temperature and the main purpose it serves is that it determines the way the tank looks. Nm cannot be coverted to K and vice versa. (right?)

And CRI.. well I really dont undertand CRI. I think it has something to do with how human eyes percieve light, which also falls along the lines of how you want your tank to look...
And..

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T5 questions.

I read that T5 give out more lumens than CFLs, is that true? Because a lot of the sites selling aquarium lights doesn't really give any indication of Lumens. 
Also, I dont recall reading any gauge for Lumens. I have read the 2-3wpg rule but what about lumens? is there a 2-3 lumen per watt rule or 2-3 lumen per gallon or something?

Its popular cos it can squeeze more power into a tank give its size. (right?) 
HO T5 means it can squeeze even MORE power into a tank (right?). Why should I go for T5 when I can get the other Ts, T8, T12, etc. 
Is it because of space constrains? 
And do people get a HO (VHO, SHO too) T5 for the same reasons? Are all T5 HO?
Do I really need CO2 supplementation if I get a T5 HO?

All T5 have the same pins? If I were to get a t5 fixture, I can get different t5 bulbs from different companies and it will still fit right?

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Light Products

I was introduced to a Arcadia T5 Plant Pro bulb -> http://www.arcadia-uk.info/product.php?pid=34&mid=10&lan=en&sub=&id=4
Im attracted by the red and blue peaks it claims but the thing is.. It doesnt state the Lumens and without the Kevin rating, I dont think I will know how the colour of the light.

Im currently exploring the other brands that I have read in this forum and else where, such as Philips, Grolux, Interpet...

Lastly, is mixing bulbs really neccessary? If I can somehow find a bulb that satisfies the peaks in the red and blue, (range : 400-700nm) and about 65000k, and lumens factor why should I get another second bulb?

Thanks!!


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## surpera1 (Feb 18, 2009)

i built my own canopy - super easy - and installed AH supply 2x55 kit with GE 9325 bulbs - i cant answer all your questions - but you need at least 2 watts per gallon generally - although you can grow some things on much less - there are a lot of variables to contend with - but those are some powerful lights i can vouch for them


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## eylk (Dec 15, 2007)

thanks i have heard a great deal that the GE9325 is a great deal.. but i need to learn more before i can make a decision...


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Well, you have a lot right and are off to a good start.

Incandescent: a screw in light bulb that utilizes a tungsten filament in a vacuum. They are very ineffiecient and is mostly red light and lots of heat.

UVA/UVB: two types of ultraviolet light. If you are getting a UV sterliizer you need to know they are rated at a particular angstrom wavelength. No need to know the diff between the 2 types.

Actinic: a SW bulb that gives light at 460nm. Typically around 10,000K. Very blue.

Infrared: light beyond the visual red light. It can actually shutdown photosynthesis (some studies have concluded). Unless you want to keep some french fries warm, no need to know any more.

Most of the members are from the US and we talk the US gallon. The sticky on watts/gal is US gallons. Usually only applies to NO (normal output) fluorescents.

Kelvins is a temperature scale and it can be compared to a color of light. Different colored light will make your tank appearance different. Nanometers is a wavelenght of light. Visible light is 400 to 700nm. Blue (warmer in kelvin terms) at 400nm to red (cooler in kelvin terms). Red and blue light is most used by plants for photosynthesis and most easliy converted. Plants are more efficient at converting red light but will also make them long and lanky whereas blue will make more bushy and compact.

CRI: Color Rendering Index is how closely a color is represented as its true color in relation to incandesent light. The higher the more true the color will appear.

Lumen: A unit of measure of the intensity of light falling on a surface, equal to one lumen per square foot and originally defined with reference to a standardized candle burning at one foot from a given surface. How "bright" a light appears has more to do with how much light is output in a given area visible to the human eye, with "brightness" being at a maximum in the green spectrum (middle of visible spectrum, or around 550nm). Lumens stress the amount of energy in the green band to which humans are most sensitive – not plants. 

T5 lighting: T means tube and 5 means 8th of an inch. It is the newest technology in lighting and has the most intensity which makes it the most effiecient. If you have a deep tank the you will want intensity. There are a good number of choices in linear tubes (good for plants) but not so many in CF/PC. All linear T5s should be compatible pin arrangement. CFs have 4 pins either straight or square.
T8s (T=tube; 8=8ths) are not as intense but you have a lot of choices and are way more efficient than T12 tubes. One of the best T8s is the Philips Aquarelle (a european bulb - hard to find in the States and will be expensive).

Depending on your tank size and quantity of T5 lighting you will more than likely need CO2. But it really depends on what you have.


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## Minsc (May 7, 2006)

You may be over thinking it a bit, but that is ok! T5HO fixtures with high quality reflectors are considered the most efficient lighting in terms of light per watt (without going into the possibilities of LEDs...). However, the most important thing is finding a fixture that is compatible with your tank, and the goals you have for it. 

If you don't want to use CO2 supplementation, the best lighting for your tank may very well be T8s. 
With either CF or HOT5 fixtures, it is easy to add a ton of light to any tank, which can either be a good thing or bad depending on what sort of tank you are looking to have.


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## Supercoley1 (May 28, 2007)

Important to note that T5 is more efficient than T5HO (If used with the same programmed start electronic ballasts) The T5 will have more lumens per watt but the T5HO will have more lumens per inch 

I always use lights in the 'green' area (normally 5500 - 7000K) and have no plant growth problems. I see no difference in growth from when I used to go for 'Plant growth' spectrums.

If using fluorescent I would always use T5 over T5HO not because it is better but because it would allow better spacing/positioning and therefore mean you need less light to achieve 'good light'

AC


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Supercoley1 said:


> I always use lights in the 'green' area (normally 5500 - 7000K) and have no plant growth problems. I see no difference in growth from when I used to go for 'Plant growth' spectrums.


You are confusing kelvin ratings with the visible spectrum of light. They are totally different and one cannot be compared with the other. Kelvin is a temperature scale. Visible light is a wavelength measured in nanometers.



















Here is a spectral output graph for a 6000K light bulb. You will see it contains wavelengths of varying intensity thruout the visible spectrum:


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## Supercoley1 (May 28, 2007)

I am not confused at all Newt!!! I just stated I used to use tubes that were labelled 'plant' lamps whereas I now go for white to green.

I fully understand PAR and PUR but even that is starting to come into question at the moment with regards to the current understanding that plants reflect green and do not use it.

However your article sticky is pretty much how I would state the current understandings so we are pretty much in agreement there.

Efficiency however in lighting terms and for most people is still gauged on power consumption and Lumens etc... Which is all I was talking about.

I know you know your stuff on this but I still like to experiment outside of the parameters every now and again 

AC


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Sorry to have misunderstood what you were saying.


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## eylk (Dec 15, 2007)

First of all, I thank all of your for taking time out to read and reply to this super load of noob inquries.

haha

ok here we go again.. round two.

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I have no idea what kind of tank I want. CO2 is definitely out as I am still a beginner. I might not even get dry ferts or soil for my planted tank yet. Im still learning alot bout ferts. One thing is for sure. I want to get a lighting system for the long run, which means that when I finally become a professional, I dont have to upgrade or buy a new one.

as for reading and dwelling too much on the raw data and information.. well since Im in no hurry I might as well take my time.. I also intend to minimise (insert the marketing jargon where buyers regret the decision made, within a short period of time after purchase). Lastly, I killed a tank full of cichlids before I found out what a quarantine tank was, so that really hit me hard in the face.. and pocket.

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I am just going to settle on what I know or dont know about Color Temperature and CRI as long as Im satisfied with how my fish tank looks.

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Back to T5.

Supercoley1, I lost you at the electronic ballasts part and lumens part (i will ask about the lumens part in the lumens section below). And I do not understand the last part of your reply too, about better spacing and less light for 'good' light. However, I think it is because I myself dont fully grasp the concept of T5 HO at all.

So, just like to re-ask my question bout the general different between a High Output (HO) and non High Output. Does HO simply mean getting more light (lumens or watts) into the tank compared to a Non HO?

Newt, Linear T5 means that the bulb is straight and mounted horizontally? If so, does that mean there are NON linear designs being sold? (Example, Cruved bulb). Why would any1 want to get those?

Also, just to re-confirm, when people say that T5 have their own reflectors, Im guessing it refers to the fixture.. If you were to buy the bulb alone, they wont come with any reflectors at all, right?

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Lumens.

one Lux is equal to one lumen per square meter. so lets use lumens.

Newt, from your reply Im getting the impression that Lumens doesnt really matter for plants. However, I have read that some people actually use the Lux or lumen readings as a guideline, even substituting the wpg rule.
I got that impression from http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html and http://www.rexgrigg.com/mlt.html (i dont fully understand these 2 article yet but I think to them, lumens/lux is important)

Supercoley1, whats the difference between lumens pet watt and lumens per inch? What is the yard stick of measurement ? Is there a clearcut standard to adhere to? (Using the WPG rule as an example) Yard Stick of measurement - watts per US gallon. Clear Cut Standard - for e.g x-x wpg for low light, x - x wpg for medium, and so on.

Thanks !


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

If you want the lastest and greatest in lighting go with T5HO. They are straight vs CFs/PCs which are bent in half. There's a better selction for planted tanks vs CF/PC.

Yes , lumens means more green light. It is more meaningful to look at PAR and PUR but I doubt you will be able to find those ratings from the manufacturer. Giesmann Midday and AquaMedic Planta are great T5HO bulbs. I'm sure there are others. I like the Planta more as the red is higher on the nanometer scale. The Midday is more in the orange.

Where are you located?
Sunlight Supply has a TEK T5 fixture that is top of the line.


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## Supercoley1 (May 28, 2007)

Best to take advice from Newt on this. light availablility is much different in Europe than it is in States.

I am also on LEDs which means that I do 'belittle' any flourescents a little so I can be a little misleading sometimes 

What he says is true. WPG and Lumens are nowhere near accurate for what we are after but the options for PAR and PUR are not financially viable.

Therefore Lumens would be slightly better than WPG however Lumens are not always detailed on the tube/packaging where Watts always are. therefore Watts are the easiest for people to use.

Within reason you can just go by the WPG rule and you need a bit less if you have T8 and half if you use T5. This of course assumes you are using good reflectors.

By lumens per watt and lumens per inch I mean that a standard T5 will be about half the wattage of the T5HO for the same length. The T5HO will more often than not (I may be wrong) not supply double the Lumens of the standard T5. This means that although the T5HO is giving you more lumens per inch of the tube length than the T5 that 2 T5s making the same wattage as the T5HO will actually give more lumens than the single T5HO. It does however mean you need twice as many tubes 

AC


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

My quess is that Europe leads the US for availability of items and quality.


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## eylk (Dec 15, 2007)

Once again thank you for the answers. I think I will have to agree with the lumens statings.. a lot of them do not state lumens.. 

I just need one last bit of information confirmation.. Linear T5 bulbs are the straight horizontal ones right? 

And reflectors .. do they come with the bulb or the fixture or both? I read bout reflectors that come with the tank hood and also bulb reflectors. Something about a reflective coating being place between the outer glass and stuff..

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I live in a place so small on the world map you can hardly find it... Singapore !! heard of it?

I think I should have no problem getting european products given our history.

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once again thanks for all your your help, all the practical advice is golden.





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oh oh ! one lassssssst thing. If i were to get a T5HO and i want to start with a low light tank, I can minimise the number of bulbs used and also reduce the hours so that it wont be 'over lit' right? thanks thanks


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## Supercoley1 (May 28, 2007)

linear = straight tube. CF = bent tube

reflectors are a different story.

If you buy a cheap luminaire (or some of the expensive ones) there may be 2/3/4 tubes but 1 reflector.

Want you want is 1 reflector for each tube otherwise you lose light/use more light to get to the light level you did need/waste electricty&money.

Therefore you ned to research before you buy.

Generally when you buy a tube you are going to get just that. There are some 1 piece units which are pretty good where they are basically a reflector with a ballast inside it and the tube connected. These are 'disposable' units and (I haven't seen any for a while) were about £30 when the exchange rate would have meant $50. T5HO run on programmed start electronic ballasts and therefore you can get 2-3 years of good light with only 5% or so loss before chucking it and getting a new one.

I have one of these in my 'emersed' cupboard which is now 2 years old and looking fine.

AC


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## eylk (Dec 15, 2007)

thanks a lot for the help... now i need to go do some product research..


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