# [Wet Thumb Forum]-bubble rate



## Amy (Mar 1, 2003)

just a quick question here. i'm not sure if i'm using the correct bubble rate of injected co2 for my tank. it's a 90 gallon, heavily planted. i'm currently running 1 bubble every 3 seconds. is that enough? it seems like others are running it at a much higher rate..

thanks


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## Amy (Mar 1, 2003)

just a quick question here. i'm not sure if i'm using the correct bubble rate of injected co2 for my tank. it's a 90 gallon, heavily planted. i'm currently running 1 bubble every 3 seconds. is that enough? it seems like others are running it at a much higher rate..

thanks


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## BobAlston (Jan 23, 2004)

That sounds too low to me. I do just slightly less than 1 bubble per second for my 55 gallon. But the key is the co2 levels in the tank. Take a look at Chuck Gadd's wonderful page, calculate your co2 level and if necessary, increase your bubble rate.

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

Bob


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## Guest (May 5, 2003)

Ditto to Bob's reply.

Start your rate roughly about 1:1 ratio. Run this for a day or so and then check for PH/KH levels. Increase the ratio if needed to 2:1 and so on.

If your water movement is not too strong you should get sufficient levels at 2:1 ratio. I'm able to lower PH in my 55G tank to 6.6 with 2:1.

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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

Dr. Jay,

What are the units-of-measure in your "ratio"?


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## Amy (Mar 1, 2003)

according to the chart, i'm too low on co2. but i'm in the process of raising my Kh levels, as i'm only at 2 at the moment. should i wait until the Kh stabalizes before increasing the co2 rate?

i second that on what the ratio is...


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## BobAlston (Jan 23, 2004)

I am just guessing, but I wonder if the "ratio" is "bubbles per second". 2 bubbles per second sounds to me to be about right for a 90 gallon tank.

Bob


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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

Two bubbles/sec. sounds right too, but definitely raise that KH to 4 minimum before raising the CO2 flow rate.


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## Guest (May 5, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by gsmollin:
> Dr. Jay,
> ...


Sorry Gsmollin,

1:1 - 1 bubble per 1 secon etc.

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## Guest (May 5, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Amy:
> according to the chart, i'm too low on co2. but i'm in the process of raising my Kh levels, as i'm only at 2 at the moment. should i wait until the Kh stabalizes before increasing the co2 rate?
> ...


Amy,

Remember that by increasing KH (if you are going to use Baking Soda) you will also increase PH. By increasing KH you are giving your tank more "room to play around" when it comes to CO2.

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## Amy (Mar 1, 2003)

i'm increasing Kh through calcium carbonate (cuttlebone) in my canister. i was told that this is better than using baking soda to adjust levels. 

i'm also concerned though about the pH levels. i really don't want to raise them too much, as this is a discus tank and i want to keep the pH at 6.8 or so. i know that it's going to fall a little as the tank matures and the driftwood will also reduce it, but i don't want it above 7.0 if at all possible. will i be able to raise the Kh to 4 but keep the pH down?


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## qbal18 (Jul 19, 2004)

yes as you raise the KH test your PH and add more CO2 accordingly.

tank specs are in my profile


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## STAT 007 (Mar 8, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Amy:
> i'm increasing Kh through calcium carbonate (cuttlebone) in my canister. i was told that this is better than using baking soda to adjust levels.


What's a cuttlebone? How much does it increase your KH?

When measuring bubble rate, I have a stopwatch set to count down a minute and I count how many bubbles my reactor gives off in that minute. So I opt for the more accurate bubbles/minute measure than bubbles/second. Kinda like taking a 60 second pulse instead of a 30 second (or even 10 second).

Sincerely,
STAT 007
Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2004

37 gallon AGA Black Seal, Emperor 400, Ebo Jager 200 W, 100% Flourite Substrate, 2x55 Watt AH Supply PC Lighting (5300K & 6400K) @ ~3.4 WPG, High-Pressure CO2.


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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Amy:
> ...i'm also concerned though about the pH levels. i really don't want to raise them too much, as this is a discus tank and i want to keep the pH at 6.8 or so. i know that it's going to fall a little as the tank matures and the driftwood will also reduce it, but i don't want it above 7.0 if at all possible. will i be able to raise the Kh to 4 but keep the pH down?


Organic matter lowers pH by addition of acids other than carbonic acid. These other acids will lower pH as well as CO2, but they are not CO2, and do not contribute to plant growth. In a new tank, this contribution is negligble, unless you are adding something like a stabilizer. You shouldn't do that. In an older tank, the organic acids are present from driftwood, decaying plant leaves, and mulm in the substrate. They will lower the pH of the water, and you can't (or don't want to) remove them.

To add CO2 with this contribution present, you must first check the pH/KH of the water when no CO2 has been added for at least 24 hours. Use the chart to find CO2. Say it reads 12 ppm. The real level is only 3 ppm. Subtract that, and the false reading is 9 ppm. Now add CO2. Take pH/KH. Say its now 30 ppm. Subtract 9 ppm of the other acids, and you have a true reading of 21 ppm.

I average bubble counts for 10 seconds, then divide by ten to get the reported reading.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Cuttle bone is the main bone of the cuttle fish. It's a very soft form of calcium carbonate. You see it used for birds to chew on and get minerals. It's not how I would go about raising the gH and kH in a tank as it will do nothing for a while then all of a sudden your gH and kH will go sky high. I had crushed coral in the filter of my 55 gallon when I first set it up. After 5 days the gH was 3 and the kH was 3 (not bad when I started at 0/0) after 7 days the kH was 17 and I gave up on the gH. Time for some water changes









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## Amy (Mar 1, 2003)

so should i forget about the cuttle bone and go with baking soda? if so, how much should i use to raise the Kh 2 degrees?


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## Guest (May 7, 2003)

Baking Soda general rule.

1 tsp of BS will raise your KH by 2 dKH degree in 100 liters.

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[This message was edited by Jay Luto on Thu May 08 2003 at 06:30 AM.]


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## Steve Hampton (Feb 13, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Jay Luto:
> Baking Soda general rule.
> ...


DrJay are you sure on this amount? That amount is double what I've always quoted from George Booth and the Krib and what has been the case for me. IME the rate is 1 teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate will raise the KH by 2 degrees per 100L (25G).

My sources:
The Krib FAQ

and

George Booth's Website

Just curious if you have other information and I'm wrong...it happens to me quite often.









Cheers,
Steve


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## Guest (May 8, 2003)

Thanks for correcting my Steve.

Those are good links for future reference.

Thanks.

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