# How much organic debris do you allow in your tank--oxygen deficiency question



## javalee (May 8, 2006)

Hi all,

I'm wondering if I allowed my last 10g NPT to get too full of dead plant matter, dead algae, and too much mulm. The fish were always unhealthy in there, and while that could be due just to a bad run in with some parasites from new fish, they were always gasping during the day, and the one time I added Potassium Permanganate (bad idea, by the way) to try to treat them, it went from purple to brown immediately, which is a sign of a huge organic load in the tank. Knowing that the breakdown of organic debris uses up a lot of oxygen, I don't want my fish to be put under stress that could cause disease again.

So, as I start off with a clean new NPT, I'd like to a consenus of how much y'all clean up your tanks. Do you remove dead leaves when you see them, or do you allow the shrimp and snails to eat them or let them decay? Do you do a water change after every time you scrape algae off the glass? Do you ever vacuum piles of mulm during the year?

I have 20 hungry ghost shrimp and malaysian trumpet snails as a clean-up crew.

Thanks,
Javalee


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## Teeleton (Jun 8, 2006)

I have a small airstone running right next to the canister return. No oxygen problems that I see.

Teeleton


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

I remove large dead/dying leaves (swordplant, java fern) and I also remove leaves when there are larger amounts of small leaves such as a new plant dropping leaves to adjust to the new conditions. Small volumes of leaves I leave for the snails. 

I use a powerhead with quickfilter and that collects the excess mulm that the bottom dwellers (corys or kuhli loaches) stir up. I do clean the quickfilter every 1-3 weeks depending on the tank and whether I've stirred up the substrate moving things around. 

I don't do a water change every time I clean the filter, but I do a small waterchange (less than 10%) when I clean the glass in order to try and clean up that debris. At this time, I normally do a quick siphon of the more open areas of the substrate to get the worst of any buildup. Every few months I do a larger water change, but that is usually because of a major trim and replant that stirred up the substrate.


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## sb483 (May 29, 2006)

I trim off older, decaying leaves and scrub algae off the glass once every few weeks. Otherwise I don't clean the tank - no mulm removal, no water change, and I don't have a filter on the (Walstad-style) tank. Snails consume uneaten fishfood, I just leave them alone. Fish (corys, platies) are healthy and breeding, and no signs of disease.

I think the plant trimming is important; from Diana's book, plant growth that has stagnated from overcrowding can't purify the water. I don't remove any mulm, which provides nutrients for the plants to grow.


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## treesmcdonald (Mar 14, 2006)

Right now my 10 g NPT is an absolute mess but USUALLY I try to keep the plants fairly well groomed and I do small water changes every other week so I can vacuum the substrate. Every few months I do a larger change. I hardly ever have to clean the glass in my NPT. YAH! I rely on heavy feedings to supply nutrients rather than a build up of plant/fish waste. The plants are definitely getting enough nutrients since they are all growing too fast and show no signs of deficiencies.


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Great thread. My routine is pretty much identical to sb483's.


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

I don't keep a NPT, however, I have learned the hard way that it's best to promptly clean up large amounts of organic debris. I purchased a large stand of crypts for my 29. I believe that my failure to remove their melting leaves was the cause of death for several of my fish. Lesson learned: decomposing plants = ammonia = sad fish!


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

can't you stir up the water a little and vacuum above the gravel?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

mistergreen said:


> can't you stir up the water a little and vacuum above the gravel?


Of course. When the mulm gets deep above the gravel layer (one inch in some spots), I vacuum it up. The rare times that I've had a Cryptocoryne "meltdown", I have definitely done some serious vacuuming and water changing.

What will cause problems is the sudden input of fresh organic matter. Examples are dying plants (from a Crypt "meltdown) and dead filter bacteria (from a power outage). I once added sugar (the fastest of "Fast Food") directly to my tanks (I thought it would increase CO2 for the plants). The sugar probably did increase CO2, but I lost one of my prized fish as a result. Never again!


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

If I want to cycle a newly set up tank quickly, I take a few pieces of dried cat food and a bit of soil from my back yard or mulm from another tank and mix with a cup of water and let the culture sit for three days. The soil or mulm provides a source for all kinds of bacteria. After three days, the rapid decomposition and growth of the bacterial population is over and the remaining organic matter is more resistant to bacterial breakdown. Adding this culture to the tank provides some food for snails, some nutrients for the plants and a small source of CO2 from continuing decay. The organic matter added ties up heavy metals such as copper that might be at injurious levels. The culture provides a useful population of bacteria, including nitrifying bacteria that convert ammonium to nitrate.


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## javalee (May 8, 2006)

Yes, I'm definitely referring to Walstad style tanks only here, but thanks for all the replies. I think I let too much dead plant matter accumulate. In fact, I need to get into this new tank and get the melted crypt leaves out and the nasty looking leaves from the plants that came in poor condition.

Maybe if I clean the glass more often I won't have to vacuum up piles of "curles" of aglae on the bottom after scraping.

Thanks 

Javalee


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## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

I just let the muck accumulate for the most part. It won't do any harm if the rest of the system is in balance. Last time I changed the water, I sampled some of the muck and it was quite stinky, but the Ameca splendens that reproduced in that environment didn't seem to mind at all.

Details
Last summer, I started four glass-bottomed 10-gallon tanks side-by-side under a dual-tube overdriven flourescent fixture. It had Gro-Lux and 6500K (Phillips Octron) tubes. Stealth heater set at 79 degrees. No filter system though, just the plants. Minimal water changes too.

The plants are floating plants (water lettuce, giant duckweed or salvina) and fast growing immersed plants (such as hortwort and elodea.) When/if the floating plants turn yellow, I add a bit of micronutrients. No other nutrients were added.

I go at least three months between water changes, and this was to keep the hardness from climbing too high. Replacing evaporated water with tap water tended to increase the hardness/pH. Now that I've starting using RO water, I should be able to go much longer between water changes.

I started out all four tanks with end-of-summer patio tub water, so that injected a some chaos in the system. There were probably enough "critters" in the original water to get this to work. Don't think this would work nearly as well starting with tap water.


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## dymndgyrl (Jan 22, 2007)

dwalstad said:


> Of course. When the mulm gets deep above the gravel layer (one inch in some spots), I vacuum it up.


An inch! 
I love the low maintenance aspect, so this is good news!!


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