# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Rescue a newbie. Setup advice?



## motifone (Apr 7, 2005)

I'm diving into the purchase of a new tank setup (moving away from an eclipse 2 unit). I don't have access or room to build a lot of parts/canopies, so here's what I have been leaning towards:

* 32 gallon 30w x 12.5d x 20h, acrylic
* Eclipse 3 Hood filter, 36w of light
* AH Supply 1x36w CF kit (to stick in space between front lights and back filter, rests on a glass on acrylic brace, total 72watts)
* 40-60mm DC fan to dissipate heat
* flourite & gravel
* Hagen CO2 kit/diffuser

Rather than rushing ahead with Eclipse -- which sounds like things can work for plants, but is somewhat of an uphill battle, I'm open to recommendations to other tanks before I buy:

1) A different filter? If so, what's a good one/brand for this size tank?
2) Perhaps getting a tank with a stand and canopy and mouting some AH Supply kits inside?

Just thought I should ask before I buy again,
thanks
steve


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## motifone (Apr 7, 2005)

I'm diving into the purchase of a new tank setup (moving away from an eclipse 2 unit). I don't have access or room to build a lot of parts/canopies, so here's what I have been leaning towards:

* 32 gallon 30w x 12.5d x 20h, acrylic
* Eclipse 3 Hood filter, 36w of light
* AH Supply 1x36w CF kit (to stick in space between front lights and back filter, rests on a glass on acrylic brace, total 72watts)
* 40-60mm DC fan to dissipate heat
* flourite & gravel
* Hagen CO2 kit/diffuser

Rather than rushing ahead with Eclipse -- which sounds like things can work for plants, but is somewhat of an uphill battle, I'm open to recommendations to other tanks before I buy:

1) A different filter? If so, what's a good one/brand for this size tank?
2) Perhaps getting a tank with a stand and canopy and mouting some AH Supply kits inside?

Just thought I should ask before I buy again,
thanks
steve


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

save your money and dont buy a hagen kit. i wasn't pleased. i ran one for about 2 months. then i built one out of a 64oz jug and it works 5 times as well, and it only costs $2


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## nino (Oct 2, 2004)

I wouldn't get the eclipse filter. The cartridges are expensive in the long run and it uses bio wheel right? Get a canister filter. Either Filstar XP2 or Eheim.

And I agree with Russell's idea on using DIY CO2 instead of Hagen. The Hagen won't be enough for 32gl tank. You can use your canister filter as the diffuser or get either a power reactor or inline reactor. I use power reactor from Plantguild.com


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

I also agree the Hagan plant systems are only good for smaller tanks under 20 gallons, mine also had a odor leak after using it for less than a year. I would do DIY pop bottle method... http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/

Another good canister filter is the Fluval brand, a 204 would work great on your tank...
http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=22041;category_id=1711


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## motifone (Apr 7, 2005)

Visited a bunch of LFS stores today and learned a lot. I'd thought I'd share this info with others and maybe get opinions. I'm now really thinking of not going the route of an Eclipse 3 hood if I am serious about a planted tank

Instead I took an interest in a 50g acrylic size tank 36l x 15w x 20h. Recommended filtration was canister (Fluval or Eheim) and to add some biological filtration a "fluidized bed" filtration. Is the latter necessary?

Another option is a 50g Uniquarium that has the biological, chemical, and mechanical filtration built in the back. Use wet/dry and bioballs. Can be seen here http://www.advanceaquatanks.com/uniq.html for about $280 (price of a regular acrylic tank, canister and fluidized). Cons: lose about 2-3" of depth, so might have to upsize to 55g

Although I like the look of a nice canopy, one LFS owner said they can be a pain to have on a planted tank for two reasons. One, they can get in the way of doing plant work. Two, on tanks like the 50g that require sufficient light, a canopy would need vents installed to keep temps down.

Instead of a canopy with a retrofit installed, he showed me some lights by JBJ that either sit or stand on some legs above the tank. Fans built inside. Looks like Coralife makes these, too. About the price of a canopy and retrofit lighting. He recommends maybe 1 or 2x96w compact florescent above the 50g, maybe 1 6700 daylight and 1 50/50 for fish looks.

For CO2, instead of DIY and tanks which can be dangerous (and prob not liked by landlord) the Carboplus brick system.

Thoughts? Hope this helps others, too.


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## mm12463 (Mar 5, 2004)

I would go with a glass top and a AH Supply kit. Maybe a 2x36 or something and buy there hood. The hoods are nice. I was too lazy to make one for my 10 gallon.

Anyway if you need a filter just decide between a canister or maybe two HOBs. I like the canisters better on a bigger tank. Fluval, Eheim, whatever. All depends on your budget. I'm happy with my Fluval.

As for the CO2 I agree with everyone else. Skip the Hagen deal. You can buy the ladders separately if you want a diffuser but I think you would be better of with a power reactor like ninbo said. Two 2 liter pop bottles work better then that little thing you get. Cheaper too. 

Options are limitless. At least you are thinking about it before you jump in. Wish I would have known now what I new a year ago.


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## motifone (Apr 7, 2005)

Hi Mike

Yes, I need to look again at AH Supply. I've tried them before and was happy. Don't know if 2x36 is enough for the 50 gallon though. Probably upsize it.

I'll pass on the Hagen then, especially if I am going to a 50g. I know pressurized CO2 is the best, but because I rent an apartment I don't think a CO2 tank would be allowed so my options are DIY and Carboplus (hard water here in LA). Can DIY fuel a 50gallon?

thanks for input


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## nino (Oct 2, 2004)

Yes it can. However you need to use two 2L coke bottles connected with T. And also a very efficient reactor to dissolve the bubbles 100%. I tried it before in my 55 when I set up my first tank and DIY gave me about 17-20ppm of CO2. I used internal power reactor from plantguild.com.


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

i owned a fluval canister filter for 3 months. it worked really well at first, but it kept clogging up. i would clean it out, then about a week later, it would clog again. i finally sold it and got a whisper 30-60 gallon hob (hang on back) filter. it doesn't clog at all. i still run my diy co2 through the filter intake.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Russell... Sorry to hear you are having problems with your Fluval, you most have got hold of a bad one. On a up note I have been using Fluvals for years with no problems, what so ever.

Stephen... I would go with a Coralife fixture with legs, the fans run much quiter & cost less than the JBJ fixture. I have been running 2 DIY pop bottles on my 55G tank for 7 months and get around 20ppm of injected C02 with surface agitation.


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## motifone (Apr 7, 2005)

wow you guys have all been so helpful. I will return the hagen and read up more on DIY CO2 for the tank and see how that fares perhaps before buying a CarboPlus unit. 

mm12463 - what to you mean by "connected with T".

russell & trenace - thank you. I'll either get a Fluval or Eheim. One LFS said I should add a fluidized bed filtration for biological in the plant tank if I use canister, which covers the chemical & mechanical part.

how do you guys feel about canopies? they look nice, but I hear they are a pain on planted tank. Just get a Coralife like trenac said or JBJ.

Is a 50g 36l x 15w x 20h too high for a planted tank? What are the dimensions of your tanks? How many watts of compact flourescent you think if I got Coralife -- 2x96w?

thanks again guys. this info will really let me make an educated purchase


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## nino (Oct 2, 2004)

You'll have a high light tank with 2x96 watts. 20" H is perfect. 2x96w PC is excellent, Those 96w bulbs are excellent. I always prefer 96w bulb than 2x55.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

I prefer a open top tank where the plants can grow out & you can see the floating plants a lot better. Also it makes prunning and feeding a lot easier. There is a couple of drawbacks: fish suicide & evaporation.

I have a Carolife 2x65 on my 55G tank (48"L x 121/2"W x 21"H) and it works good for lower light plants. So I think a 2x96 on a 50G would work very well for almost any plant.

You don't need to use a fludized bed for a canister filter, most of the biological filter is going to be provided by the plants & some by the mulm in the gravel.


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## imported_BSS (Apr 14, 2004)

You can certainly go DIY CO2. I did it for a couple of years. But you have to be very regular about replacing the mixtures, and it adds a decent chunk of time to weekly maintenance. 

But as to safety of a pressurize system, I don't believe it's a real concern. Any chance your apartment has a soda machine? Perhaps not, but so many places have them, and when's the last time you heard of them causing a problem. If you do decide to go this route, you should be able to get a decent setup (without a few of the bells and whistles) for around $200.

Keep the questions coming!
Brian.


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

i hope for the sake of hagen that my filter was just a dud. i bought it used, so i dont know how well it worked right out of the box. ebay may be the death of me someday.

i use a hood one one tank, and a hanging light over another. i like the looks of the hooded one, but as stated above the open air one is much easier to manage. plus i get lots of little aponogeton flowers


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## motifone (Apr 7, 2005)

Thanks for keeping the info coming. Hope I'm not being a nag







and I hope this info is helpful to others, too.

Thanks to your help I've:
1) Said goodbye to the Eclipse hoods for planted tanks. Too much tinkering.

2) Said goodbye to the Hagen kit in lieu of DIY (at least two 2L bottles), possibly Carboplus or pressurized.

3) Will get a canister filter Eheim 2215 or Fluval 204 or 304)and probably hold off on any kind of additional fluidized filter. The LFS said they used one on their nice planted tank in addition to a canister, but probably overkill.

4) Will consider one of the Coralife 36" 2x96 (maybe overkill) on a tank 36w x 15d x 20h, rather than the JBJ. I'll use the mounting legs that tilt as suggested. Canopies look nice, but as suggested can get in the way.

Some follow ups if ya don't mind:

Dear BSS -- RE: pressurized Co2. I live in a Duplex (a house, me and the landlord's family), so there is a closer eye on things. I haven't completely ruled it out. The guy at LFS made it sound like tanks can leak a lot. True? How frequently did you have to restock DIY bottles (I know this can vary depending on mix)

Trenac - RE: evaporation. Give or take, how many gallons a week might I expect evaporating. I agree though going without canopy prob best idea. IF I have the Coralife unit on legs above the tank (I'm considering acrylic at the moment) do you put a piece of acrylic or glass over the entire top of tank or just leave as is with the openings and all (hence the evaporation)? Does CO2 escape?

I'm actually a little confused on gallon count. The tank I'm looking at is a "Clear For Life" acrylic "50 R 3lx15wx20h" I think the LFS guy said it's not necessary 50 gallons, but more or less? I wonder what the "R" means in "50 R"

Thanks again for continued help, if I keep educating myself this week hopefully I can start purchases soon.


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## motifone (Apr 7, 2005)

Few other questions: 
1) do big compact flourescent loads add a lot to electricity costs. Say 2x96w. Again like the Coralife unit.

2) I'll be getting a good quality pine stand. for those with acrylic tanks, do you place a piece of cork under tank to absorb any level irregularities? or do you all have glass tanks?

3) LFS recommended one daylight PC bulb and one 50/50 (daylight and actinic) bulb. He said the actinic brings out some fish color. All daylight tends to wash out fish. A 50/50 bulb doesn't look as powerful to me though on the actinic portion (dim). Any of you guys use actinic combo in your planted tank or all daylight?

4) what wattage of heater is recommened for a 50 gallon? Do you guys like completely submersible ones?

as always, thanks


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

i like submersible. i use the whisper line, and havn't had any problems.


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## imported_BSS (Apr 14, 2004)

Here's my thoughts:
1) Shouldn't be any worse than adding two 100w lamps and leaving them on for 10+ hours. I certainly didn't notice a big jump in my electric bills with my setup.

2) No guess, I have glass.

3) Most on the forums recommend ditching 50/50 bulbs. The actinic does zippo for plants, and as these are plant-based forums most don't like them. You try a combination of light color temps (5500, 6700, 9325) to get a better human visible color spectrum.

4) I'm in Florida, so I don't currently need one.

Regarding leaking CO2, I've not read many incidents of leaky CO2 tanks aside from folks who have hooked them up wrong. As to DIY, most batches seem to last around 3 weeks. So, if you run with two bottles, you can refresh them on alternating weekends and still miss an occassional weekend.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

I replace about a gallon a week on the open top tanks. I have no cover what so ever over the tank, there is a plastic strip on the light fixture to protect the bulbs from the water.

1) I have not seen any big leaps in the electric bills running PC fixtures on four tanks.

3) I have ran a 50/50 bulb on one of my tanks for about a year, it does gives off a nice 
color but does not benifit the plants as much as a plant bulb. 

4) The rule is 3-5 watts per gallon, I use a 250 watt on my 55G tank. Yes, submersible for me.


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