# Possible Super-natural Nano?



## fuzzyletters (Jan 20, 2007)

Hi... I've been thinking about starting a tank for college etc. I've also been reading about other ways to keep pets that might be college-friendly. One of the things that I've seen is the ecosphere, which apparently you can make by simply scooping some pondwater and plants into a bottle and keeping in the appropriate amount of sunlight. I was thinking about this and I wondered, "why not do this with an aquarium?" Is it feasible to keep a tank like this, perhaps with a bit more selection of the critters contained and some active aquascaping using plants from the sampled body of water? Will most of the natural inverts die off? What sort of circulation would be needed to simulate a small stream? How would the cooler temperature be recreated in such a small tank? Anyone done this before?

Thanks


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

what is in those ecospheres? Just some plants right?

I guess you can do it with an aquarium. You have to think about creating an ecosystem. Will you just leave this alone? No feeding? no maintanence?


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## fuzzyletters (Jan 20, 2007)

well i was thinking that i would do feeding and maintenance, though i was wondering if you could do it without.

as far as i've read, they have gorgonia, this one type of algae (i think they call it sea lettuce), and halocaridina rubra, the hawaiian/volcanic red shrimp (which i looked into keeping alone, seems kinda tough to get and needs brackish water to be really happy/breed, although it can tolerate a wide range of salinities)

that's actually something else i'd be curious about... how hard would it be to take care of a very small brackish tank? i want to do freshwater really, but if it's not hard to adjust the salinity on a smaller scale maybe i'd try the shrimp anyway.


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## pistilli (Nov 30, 2006)

Hi, I have one of what sounds like the same kind of ecosphere that you are describing. The gorgonian is dead (it comes like that on purpose, I didn't kill it!) and just serves as high surface area substrate for all sorts of microscopic critters, and I don't know the names of the shrimp and algae but they could be the same as you describe.

Anyway, while I certainly love my little maintenance free ecosphere, I wouldn't even think of trying to recreate one myself because the balance in there is much more complicated than the simplicity of its parts implies. This is mainly because, unlike in our own aquaria, the ecosphere is a completely closed ecosystem (other than the obvious input of light energy, and I guess output heat energy). So whatever elements begin in there never change in proportions, only in form. I think the most important aspect of this is that processes such as denitrification and respiration, which in our aquaria release nitrogen and carbon as gases into the (relatively) limitless reserve of the atmosphere, instead only release those gases into a trapped air volume significantly smaller than the volume of water in the sphere. This has the effect of increasing the partial pressures of the gases in the ecosphere "atmosphere" and forcing them back into solution, where they get recycled. Interestingly, this is the same thing happening on a global scale when we burn fossil fuels and release excess CO2 into the atmosphere, which increases it's partial pressure and drives it into our seas, thus the small decrease in pH of our ocean in the past century.

So essentially in an aquarium you're going to need to manage input and output of nutrients somehow, whether it's by massive filtration, water changes, and feeding/fertilizing in higher tech tanks, or more simply by feeding, topping off, and trimming in low tech tanks. In the meantime I'd still encourage you to get a commercially prepared ecosphere because they really are quite fun 

-Max


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

The shrimp only live for 2years.
They are suppose to live longer than that.
The shrimp actually get smaller in the ecosphere.
Not balanced, just a slow poisoning.
At least this is what is stated what I heard.
This website talks about the microlobsters: http://www.fukubonsai.com/


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

I think you can do it... There are fresh water shrimps that feed on algae.. And you'll have plenty of algae...

here' are some. http://www.franksaquarium.com/freshwatershrimpfarm.htm
and you can put a few hardy plants in the tank like Anarchis or Java Fern.

You can just use natural lights and not worry about flurensence.. My little 2 gallon nano tank is like this.. Although, I do weekly water change. I also have topsoil as a substrate. And I get plenty of algae. And I feed my Shrimps bits of sinking fish food but they get plenty of food from little critters and algae.


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## Grayum (Jun 14, 2006)

Not to be rude, but I do think it will end the same way as the biosphere project. 
As humans its silly to think we can recreate an entire closed ecosystem, when we have yet to even identify 1/16th of the bacteria involved in terrestrial soil. 

With our natrually planted tanks, theres a lot less elements to think about, (Bacterial break down, processing of wate, etc.,). I think if you want to try it, thats really good, but make sure you research this project heavily, (as well as past failures).


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Grayum said:


> Not to be rude, but I do think it will end the same way as the biosphere project.
> As humans its silly to think we can recreate an entire closed ecosystem, when we have yet to even identify 1/16th of the bacteria involved in terrestrial soil.
> 
> With our natrually planted tanks, theres a lot less elements to think about, (Bacterial break down, processing of wate, etc.,). I think if you want to try it, thats really good, but make sure you research this project heavily, (as well as past failures).


I don't think he's doing a enclose ecosystem.. He just wants a low maintenance nano tank.


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## fuzzyletters (Jan 20, 2007)

mistergreen said:


> I don't think he's doing a enclose ecosystem.. He just wants a low maintenance nano tank.


yeah, you're right... i actually had been researching this prior to this post (and saw the fukubonsai site, which made me a lot more interested in shrimp) and i realized quickly that a closed system would probably all end in tears... but i thought that maybe feeding spirulina (or something else that's live and wouldn't destroy the tank if it weren't eaten immediately) and allowing natural gas exchange could yield a small, low-maintenance setup if, as you said, i researched properly and invested enough time in the initial setting up.

i'm thinking maybe that cherry shrimp or whatever is smaller/easier to keep might be what i end up trying to stock the tank with, as the opae'ula seem hard to get, threatened, and not-quite-suitable for a full-freshwater tank.

thanks for the responses (and keep them coming if you've got more to say!), i hope you'll excuse me for the partial redundance of this post with others--i was hoping that i could get some fresh discussion going and ask some of my own questions


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## fuzzyletters (Jan 20, 2007)

Grayum said:


> As humans its silly to think we can recreate an entire closed ecosystem, when we have yet to even identify 1/16th of the bacteria involved in terrestrial soil.


wow... that's quite a figure


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## stepheus (Jun 13, 2006)

there has been a lot of discussion about this in here.

i having low maintenance tanks for a while now knows if i were to leave my tanks alone, they will find a balance. yes its important to start off right i.e. use slow growing/low maintenance plants, use low level fauna that eats algae but there is not need to draw out a whole line of food chain nor breed microorganisms in a separate compartment etc.

Just make sure there is a source of light, air and water agitation. it gets even simpler if you are willing to take a look at in once in a while and do maintenance once every 6 months or so. after you go thru the el natural forum for essentials like substrate, lighting, types of plants, you are ready to go. and post pictures when you are done. :heh:

good luck!


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

I don't have any water agitation in my 2G bowl...
It's not doing that great. I have lots of algae and H2SO... 

I've seen they sell little mini powerheads maybe I can use but I kinda want to keep it super low maintenance. Most of the algae I can suck off the plants with a little siphon.


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## fuzzyletters (Jan 20, 2007)

don't mts take care of H2S?


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