# Flourite Black Sand vs Onxy Sand



## AheartlessFish

Planning on starting up a aquascape plant only tank (then later add cherry shrimp). Plants will be probably just HC or Glosso. Co2 injected, dry ferts.
I read up on these substrates all over and cant really decide. I dont mind the charcoal look of the onxy.
Some prefer eco complete, some say florite, some say onxy...im leaning more towards the onxy side but just wanted opinions before i purchase 4-5 bags of it.
I understand that some gravel maintain higher ph's, kh, and gh than others

questions are...

Nutrient value (Fe, Ca, Mg, etc) in these gravels...it doesnt really matter correct?
When you wash your gravel (with Eco-complete out of the subject), your washing away the nutrient value anyways?
I mean your plants eventually eat it all up whatever is in the bag anyways...and your the one that eventually controls what you dose into the tank, correct?

I noticed that my plants tend to root alot better in more sand substrate, Of Flourite black sand vs onxy sand, which one is smaller?


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## Left C

Get ADA's Amazonia and don't look back. Top with their Powder where you want to grow HC and use the Regular everywhere else.


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## AheartlessFish

powder?...

sorry im new to all of the powder stuff...i saw in some pictures that ADA people put powders/ferts on the bottom of their gravels and stuff...seems expensive methods...


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## Left C

AheartlessFish said:


> powder?...
> 
> sorry im new to all of the powder stuff...i saw in some pictures that ADA people put powders/ferts on the bottom of their gravels and stuff...seems expensive methods...


What ADA calls a Powder substrate is just a finer grain version of their Normal substrate. The roots are so tiny on HC that it can have a hard time growing in Normal Amazonia's larger grain size. The Powder Amazonia allows HC's roots to grip a bit better.

If you use glosso, you can use either. My glosso grows fine in Normal Amazonia, but, again, the Powder may be a better choice.

I'm just giving you a head's up. I'm switching some of my glosso over to HC and my HC will not stay rooted in Normal Amazonia.

I'm not speaking about their other substrate admendments like you were thinking.

You can see the differences below. Amazonia comes in 9L and 3L bags. Below are the 9L bags only. For conversion, 1L is approx 61 cubic inches. You can dowload their manual from these links.
Powder: http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_12_21&products_id=100
Normal: http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_12_21&products_id=680


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## AheartlessFish

ahhhs thanks for the input !! my understanding of ada grows...haha...stuff is super expensive tho...i think ill stick with something more affordable...ill just go compare the onxy to the flourite black and choose the finer one of them thanks 

what about nutrient value of gravels? any comment on that?


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## Left C

The 9L bags of Amazonia cost more because they contain more substrate material than the bags of Flourite Black Sand, Onyx Sand, and Eco-Complete. This makes the cost per cubic inch cheaper. The guys at ADA in the US aren't making much money on their substrate. We, the customers, are practically getting it at cost. They have done this to make it competitive with the other plant substrates in the US. Below is a cost comparison. I'll go ahead and give you the results now. Below are the bags' sizes and costs. Note that these are the list prices of the substrate and they do not include any shipping charges.

Amazonia - $0.051 per cubic inch

Flourite Black Sand - $0.055 per cubic inch

Eco-Complete - $0.071 per cubic inch

You can see that Amazonia is the cheapest. Flourite is a little bit more expensive than Amazonia and Eco-Complete is the most expensive plus you are buying water in the E-C. Amazonia has the nutrients ready for the plants, whereas the other substrates are basically inert from my understanding. I have used regular gravel, Flourite, Eco-Complete and Onyx Sand. There is no comparison. Amazonia grows plants better than the other substrates hands down.

Below is the volume of a bag of substrate and its price. Then the cost per cubic inch is calculated.

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A 9L bag of Amazonia is 549 cubic inches.

A bag of Flourite or Onyx is 400 cubic inches.

A bag of Eco-Complete is 350 cubic inches.

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A 9L bag of Amazonia is $28.00**. This is $0.051 per cubic inch.

A 7kg or 15.4 lbs bag of Flourite Black Sand is $21.99*. This is $0.055 per cubic inch.

A 20 lbs bag of Eco-Complete is $24.99*. This is $0.071 per cubic inch.

* prices are from DrsFosterSmith.com: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/fish-supplies/freshwater-aquarium-gravel-substrate/ps/c/3578/10742

** prices are from AquaForestAquarium.com: http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_12_21&products_id=680


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## AheartlessFish

i would be purchasing at a local pet store.

Reason why im shying away from ADA is because of the shipping cost.
Also last i checked their website was out of stock on their gravel.

As much as i would like to play around with it i think ill settle for something more attainable by the bag 

Will look into Amazonia gravel in the future ^^


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## Left C

Both ADA dealers are practically all out of Amazonia. Containers from Japan should be coming in soon. This the California dealer's info about their container:
_"New container shipment will arrive end of February, 2012
February 08, 2012

Dear all,
Please note that our new ADA container shipment is expected to arrive near the end of February, 2012. The new aqua soil Amazonia will be back in stock as well as Cube gardens and other out of stock items. We appreciate your patience."_

http://www.adgshop.com/ is the other dealer. They are in Texas. I think that their shipping cost on the substrate is cheaper than the shop in Califorina. They are completely out of stock on the Amazonia. And, I don't know when their container will arrive.

Anyway, I hope that your tank turns out well. If it was me, I'd wait on the Amazonia. BTW, I used some of the Powder Amazonia today to replant some HC. It is terrific for planting HC.


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## Newt

Onyx will buffer your water; probably more than your shimp will like. A very good substrate for African chiclids.
Flourite Black sand will last indefinitley; Amazonia will only last 2+ years. You will have splendid growth during that time but you need to decide if you want to re-do your tank a few years down the road.


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## Left C

*Re: Flourite Black Sand vs Onyx Sand*

I didn't like Onyx Sand at all when I used it. It is a dark silvery color that just looks bad to me. I got rid of it after a few months.

If you do want to go with Onyx Sand, Seachem's Gray Coast Calcite (the sand version and not the gravel version) is the exact same product. It comes in a 10kg (22 lbs) bag vs a 7kg (15.4 lbs) bag for the Onyx Sand. Sometimes the Gray Coast Calcite is cheaper per bag.

Someone asked about the longevity of the new Amazonia in another thread. Below is what was said. I wouldn't expect Amazonia to last anywhere near as long as Flourite Black Sand.



> Does Amazonia ever deplete and need to be replaced?


I do not know the answer to this question because the new Amazonia that is out now hasn't been out long enough to know if it needs replacement or how long that it lasts. It uses different materials and a different manufacturing process than the other Amazonia products. It's description does say: "Granules maintain their shape for a long period in water, holding air between them, which is vital for the long time maintenance of a planted aquarium."

new Amazonia product description: http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_12_21&products_id=680


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## AheartlessFish

interesting...again my choices are from the 3 above, EC, Flourite black, and Onxy...i will do close up comparisons and settle for either Flourite black or onxy...

flourite black sounds cool


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## Left C

Good luck with your new tank!!


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## Left C

I just found an example of a price comparison for something that I mentioned earlier. In the link below, notice that all four of these Seachem substrates are the same price ($17.95). Also, remember that I mentioned that Onyx Sand and Gray Coast Calcite are the exact same product but in different bags. The Onyx Sand is in a 15.4 lbs bag and the Grey Coast Calcite is in a 22 lbs bag. This is for marketing purposes. You can look at the chemical analysis of each product to see the similarity. Also, one of Seachem's tech reps told me that they are the exact same product. I'll post the chemical analysis for these two products below from Seachem's site. The entries in bold represent the identical or practically identical ppm's of elements found in these two products. In no way am I endorsing these products. I am just posting facts. 

Gray Coast Calcite - 22 lbs - $17.95
Onyx Sand - 15.4 lbs - $17.95
Flourite Black Sand - 15.4 lbs - $17.95
Flourite Black - 15.4 lbs - $17.95

link: http://www.aquasythe.com/Departments/Substrates/Aquarium-Substrates-by-Seachem.aspx

****************************************

Onyx Sand chemical analysis - units ppm http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/OnyxSand.html
Aluminum - 822
Barium - 5
*Calcium - 197500*
Cobalt - 4
Chromium - 10
Copper - 4
*Iron - 2846*
Potassium - 417
*Magnesium - 115400*
*Manganese - 43*
Sodium - 135
Nickel - 7
*Vanadium - 8*
*Zinc - 23*

Gray Coast Calcite chemical analysis - units ppm http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/GrayCoast.html
*Calcium - 197500*
*Iron - 2876*
*Magnesium - 115400*
*Manganese - 43*
Molybdenum - 6
Strontium - 63
*Vanadium - 7*
*Zinc - 23*


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## AheartlessFish

if it wasnt for purchasing this stuff local i would go with the ada gravel. but because i can find onxy or any flourite local im gona stick with them. wish they sold the gray coast around here !!!!


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## Left C

Well, I've tried to steer you in the right direction, but I can't. I wish you good luck with your sub par substrate purchase! LOL!!!

Some of the online vendors are offering free shipping with orders over $49 including the heavy weight items like substrate.


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## Left C

ThatPetPlace.com has free shipping for $49 and up: http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/promotions.web?promo=../shipping/Pet_Supplies.html
Flourite Black Sand: http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/245726/product.web
Onyx Sand: http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/198742/product.web

I don't know if the per bags prices are cheaper or more expensive than you can get them for.


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## AheartlessFish

i live 40 mins away from there...thats where i planned to get my flourite...settling more with flourite black atm...not sure yet...

wish they had the calcite bags

thanks for all of your help ^^

*very tempted to buy some amazonia...however they've been oos for awhile*


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## Left C

AheartlessFish said:


> i live 40 mins away from there...thats where i planned to get my flourite...settling more with flourite black atm...not sure yet...


That's $15 to $20+ worth of gas to travel there and then return, isn't it?

I gave you a place that had free shipping. You wouldn't have to spend your gas money.



AheartlessFish said:


> wish they had the calcite bags


DrsFosterSmith and ThatPetPlace used to carry it. I guess that it didn't sell very well.



AheartlessFish said:


> thanks for all of your help ^^


I did all the arm twisting that I could.



AheartlessFish said:


> *very tempted to buy some amazonia...however they've been oos for awhile*


The container at AquaForestAquarium.com is expected to be in by the end of February. That isn't very long to wait at all. IMO, it is worth the wait. Amazonia is far better than E-C, Flourite and Onyx Sand, IMO.

AquaForestAquarium.com (http://www.adana-usa.com/): "Latest News
*New container shipment will arrive end of February, 2012*

February 08, 2012

Dear all,

*Please note that our new ADA container shipment is expected to arrive near the end of February, 2012.* *The new aqua soil Amazonia will be back in stock* as well as Cube gardens and other out of stock items. We appreciate your patience."


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## AheartlessFish

the gas part is worth the drive...although many dont like thatfishplace, its the only good pet supply store around this area (for supplies and plants atleast)
they carry a large variety of plants for cheap prices and its nice to walk around a huge petstore ^^
so the 15-20 dollars in gas is for entertainment cost.

Of course i wouldnt drive up there just to get gravel, like you said free shipping on orders $49+


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## Left C

I suppose that you noticed how much support that you got for using the Black Sand or Onyx Sand. Good luck with your choice. Thread subscription deleted. :wave:


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## AheartlessFish

if support u mean by members replying im use to it haha.


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## Left C

Check this out! http://www.adana-usa.com/ and http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=76_12_21
*
LATEST NEWS*

New container shipment has arrived!

February 25, 2012

Dear all,

The new ADA container shipment has just arrived. The new aqua soil Amazonia (9L) is in stock now as well as Cube gardens and other out of stock items. We appreciate your patience.

Please Note: Amazonia powder (3L) & (9L) did not arrive in this shipment due to short supply in Japan. We will try to restock them when its available again in the near future.


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## AheartlessFish

yea....28 bucks per 9L + 21 shipping...

ill pass big time lol


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## Left C

Let's look at a bigger picture than shipping just 1 bag of Amazonia. There is more product in a 9L bag of Amazonia than a 7kg bag of Flourite or a 20lbs bag of Eco-Complete. Therefore it doesn't take as many bags.

I just calculated how much substrate that I would need for an aquarium like a 40 breeder and have it shipped to my home in NC. Then I calculated the cost including shipping. I would need 4 bags of Amazonia, 7 bags of Eco-Complete and 6 bags of Flourite Black Sand. The Amazonia is being shipped from AquaForestAquarium. The E-C and Flourite are being shipped from ThatPetPlace. The E-C is $1.35 cheaper and the Flourite Black Sand is $32.94 cheaper than Amazonia from AFA.

For Amazonia, AquariumDesignGroup has cheaper shipping than AFA, but they are out of stock at the moment. Using the same comparison, E-C would be $21.76 more expensive than Amazonia and Flourite Black Sand would be $9.83 cheaper than Amazonia.

*Amazonia* from AquaForestAquarium
4 bags x $28 + $56.27 shipping = $168.27

*Eco-Complete* from That Pet Place
7 Bags x $21.99 + $12.99 shipping = $166.92 
$168.27 - $166.92 = $1.35, Eco-Complete is $1.35 cheaper than Amazonia from AFA

*Flourite Black Sand* from That Pet Place
6 bags x $20.39 + $12.99 shipping = $135.33 
$168.27 - $135.33 = $32.94, Flourite Black Sand is $32.94 cheaper than Amazonia from AFA

*Amazonia* from AquariumDesignGroup
4 bags x $27.99 + $33.20 shipping = $145.16

*Eco-Complete* from That Pet Place
$145.16 - $166.92 = - $21.76, Eco-Complete is $21.76 more expensive than Amazonia from ADG

*Flourite Black Sand* from That Pet Place
$145.16 - $135.33 = $9.83, Flourite Black Sand is $9.83 cheaper than Amazonia from ADG


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## AheartlessFish

haha alot of calculations u made ^^

i ended up with a bag of flourite black sand i purchased today for 14 bucks with coupon at TFP

im gona test it on a 5-10 gallon and see how it plays out for me...

only other substrates i ever used were pool sand (which is doing pretty well) 
and flourite/eco complete mixture (pebbles are too big imo)

when i was comparing Flourite black to Onxy sand they were very familiar in size...ended up with flourite black sand tho 

thanks for all the helps


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## Left C

I hope it does well for you. I know that many have used it to cap their mineralized soil. I'll bet that you are going to have fun washing that Flourite Black Sand! :lol:

As far as Amazonia, if AquariumDesignGroup.com in Houston gets some in before too long, the shipping should be cheaper than AquaForestAquarium.com in San Francisco. ADG announced over a year ago that they were going to sell their AquaSoil at near cost. And also, they were going to price their shipping as inexpensive as they could. By doing this, they were trying to be inline with the other major aquarium substrates price-wise, but supply a better product. You can read what Tom Barr says about it in many places. He really likes Amazonia. Hopefully you will try some sometime.

As far as the calculations ... Do you remember who Algebra was? He was the mule in "Our Gang", "Little Rascals" comedies.  http://ourgang.wikia.com/wiki/Algebra


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## lilobee

Thanks for all of the info and breakdown. I'm starting a new tank here as well.


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