# Scared to use soil



## mpagri (Dec 7, 2007)

I am convinced that the El Natural method works and have gone full swing into setting up a tank. I am however still very hesitant to bury top soil under gravel and water and not expect a) the soil to be everywhere within a short matter of time b) hard to control algae/nutrient problems. I am planning on doing pool filter sand all in the front and a sand "river" to the back (no plants here) and then topsoil (eek!) capped with fluorite (I like the way it looks, and figure it cant hurt) for the rest. 

My LFS people laughed at me when I told them my plan (topsoil), they are definitely very knowledgeable, but also very pro-hightech.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

mpagri said:


> I am convinced that the El Natural method works and have gone full swing into setting up a tank. I am however still very hesitant to bury top soil under gravel and water and not expect a) the soil to be everywhere within a short matter of time b) hard to control algae/nutrient problems. I am planning on doing pool filter sand all in the front and a sand "river" to the back (no plants here) and then topsoil (eek!) capped with fluorite (I like the way it looks, and figure it cant hurt) for the rest.
> 
> My LFS people laughed at me when I told them my plan (topsoil), they are definitely very knowledgeable, but also very pro-hightech.


Don't worry about using top soil. Many, many people do use it and have good results.

Buy the cheapest unenriched top soil that you can find, soak it for a week, changing the water to get rid of twigs and other undersireables, and cap it with 2mm - 3mm gravel, aka blasting sand, or Flourite, if you choose.

If the LFS people laugh at you, you need to find a better source. I can't imagine doing business with anyone who laughed at me or my ideas.

Keep us informed, OK?

Bill


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## SimplyOrange (Oct 5, 2007)

haven't had a problem and I've used it often in the past and present.

the only downsides for me are the tannins being released since i don't presoak mine but sometimes it looks good with the tannin in the water.

also i wouldn't suggest moving plants that have rooted itself well. normally this only applies to plants with large root systems.

also i wouldn't suggest fish that digs.

once you cover it with a layer of sand or gravel you don't need to worry about the soil floating up.

i figure its a great way to get started in the planted tank area.


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## mpagri (Dec 7, 2007)

Ok, I'm going to do it. Soil capped with fluorite. Heres the complete setup:

29g

Aquaclear 70 (prob change out for just PowerHead and prefilter)

65w PC lighting

Soil capped with fluorite 

Plant Plan (sorry bad with latin still):

monosolenium tenerum
chain sword
crypt pethcii
Eleocharis montevidensis (giant hairgrass)

Where can I get a good deal on all these plants from one place? I'd try the section here but not enough posts to be able to.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

just make sure to put in lots of plants.. You can't have too much. Get fast growers & slow growers.. The plant mass will help stabilize the tank which helps with algae.


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## SimplyOrange (Oct 5, 2007)

do you really need soil and fluorite?


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

I remember being scared the first time I used soil as well. Now I look back and laugh at myself since I've gotten such great results with it. As mentioned, just be careful when pulling up plants with good root systems like swords & crypts. 

All the plants you've listed should do well with the light levels and soil underlayer. They are slower growing though, so add a couple types of fast growing stems (Hygrophila difformis, hornwort, etc) and/or floaters (Amazon frogbit, salvinia, red-root floater) right at first in order to minimize algae. Once the slow growers get established you can start removing the fast-growing stems you don't want. 

Check out the sponsors for APC to find out who has the plants you want. I've had good luck with Aqua Botanic. Also, keep checking the for sale/trade forum. I don't think there's a minimum number of posts needed for buying and there are some great deals that turn up there.


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## Squawkbert (Jan 3, 2007)

mpagri said:


> Where can I get a good deal on all these plants from one place? I'd try the section here but not enough posts to be able to.


If you can't post in the classifieds either read them and PM the sellers of what you want or PM a mod and ask to be allowed to post a want ad.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

mpagri said:


> ...Where can I get a good deal on all these plants from one place? I'd try the section here but not enough posts to be able to.


Depends on what you are looking for. I order my plants from aquariumplants.com. I have received the healthiest anubias plants from them, with massive root balls. Their grow your own bulbs are foolproof and second to none, and they have one of the best selections of sword plants. I would not order stem plants for them. They never seem to survive shipment, at least the ones I ordered did not survive shipment and the ones that did, did not do all that well. 
http://www.aquariumplants.com/


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

mpagri said:


> Plant Plan (sorry bad with latin still):
> 
> monosolenium tenerum
> chain sword
> ...


You might want to rethink the giant hairgrass. It gets huge and I do mean huge. I've seen it grow out of the top of a 24" tall tank. Perhaps Eleocharis vivipara would be a better choice if you plan to use it as a backround plant.


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## mpagri (Dec 7, 2007)

how tall will vivipara grow? I was hoping for this effect in the back:










(is that moss riccia? that wont do too well in a npt right? i plan on trying it anyway)


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

mpagri said:


> how tall will vivipara grow? I was hoping for this effect in the back:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, the plant in that picture is Eleocharis vivpara so you're in luck.  It does get a little wild looking if you don't trim it, but it's not too much of hassle. Riccia should grow okay in a NPT. It won't do great though.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Is that really vivipara in that picture? I don't like vivipara because each little hair strand will branch and it turns into a big tangled ball or mass. It is the most unruly and ugly Eleocharis specie! Personaly I hate this plant!  It is the only aquatic hairgrass specie that branches as it grows.

If you want a tall, straight, very thin leaf plant, there are a couple other alternatives. Isotoes lacustris is easy to grow and Vallisneria nana as well. Diana talks about Isotoes in her book, although I do not remember in what contex.


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