# Lighting a deep tank



## Emily6 (Feb 14, 2006)

Hey folks, so as per an earlier thread I realized my problem might not be insufficient light but rather insufficient reflectors. 

To recap, I have a 24" deep 65 gallon tank (so 36" across) where all my stems grow somewhat scrappy until 7-8" up, where they suddenly get enough light to explode into full color. This is a problem for reasons beyond the obvious- now all this new growth chokes out the rooted growth, leaving me with this top-heavy arrangement and an annoying trim cycle. 

Right now I have a brandless T5 from ebay totaling 156w (4 bulbs). It has two reflectors, each encompassing two bulbs. They're very shiny but perhaps not the right angle. I've read Ice Cap SLR reflectors are where it's at, as opposed to the Tek2's. But these details aren't usually listed on product descriptions.

What fixture do you folks recommend? I keep a canopy over the tank to minimize how bright the room gets from the tank so I can't do hanging fixtures or really tall fixtures (most anything with legs, really). 

Oh, also, there's no room in my current fixture to add in reflectors- they're pretty tightly assembled. 
Thanks!


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## potatoes (Jun 25, 2010)

I have seen submersed light strips that can be layed along the substrate. I am not sure what direction the plants would grow then lol


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## Emily6 (Feb 14, 2006)

lol I picture something like a gazebo with rope lighting around the bottom. Interesting thought. Maybe my fish would feel classy. Or disoriented.


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## freshyleif (Jan 9, 2008)

What is rest of your tank system like. Do you know that the water circulation is good in all areas? Are you adding Co2 and fertz.? I have a 75g with 2T5HO and 2CF's and used to have even more light. I had the same problem you are having. The final problem solver was not more light but better circulation and more C02. I also found that like many others have said, if you want to really fix the problem then you must only change one thing at a time and wait long enough to be sure that you can see the results before trying the next change. IE: 1 change circulation in tank wait a week 2 change C02 and fertz wait a week 3 change lights or light time period. This should help you find where the real problem is. Just to repeat for me the real solution was to get water movement at the bottom of the tank higher and to get my C02 to stay at a more consistent level.Hope this is helpful.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Emily6,

Moving this over from the other thread so members can see what we have discussed. BTW, SLR reflectors are not necessarily better than TEKII reflectors for all applications, but when I want to direct more light deeper into an aquarium it is the one I would use. For a more shallow, wider (front to back) tank, a TEKII reflector could be a better choice.



> Hi Emily6,
> 
> I too have a 24" deep aquarium and I believe the design offers special challenges. I am not sure the wattage is the only issue on an aquarium this tall. A reflector that directs most of the light downward, as opposed to toward the sides, might be a major advantage in this situation.
> 
> Since I have the same "opportunity" on my 45 gallon, and will have on a 75 gallon project tank I am working on, I have been doing some research on reflectors. Here is a very good thread on SLR verses Tek reflectors. The chart near the bottom of the page is very informative. It reinforces how different reflector designs effect light dispersion. Based on what I found, for my deeper aquarium aquarium applications I will be using the SLR reflector because it directs up to 20% more light downward on aquariums up to 18" wide.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

24" Giesemann Midday T5HO 6000K Bulbs with individual reflectors. Forget everything else.

\With these bulbs you can grow anything at a depth of 24". For every 2.5' of tank length you will need 48 watts of light with these bulbs.

But do you really want to deal with fast growing plants? That's the real question.

--Nikolay


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi niko,

I was hoping you would add to this thread. Are those "Giesemann" reflectors as well as bulbs? If so, where are "Giesemann" reflectors available?


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

A MIRO reflector specifically made for T5 bulbs.

It is not a horribly special thing to find. Price is about $20 for a 48" reflector.

I always used reefgeek.com

http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_Fluorescent/Sunlight_Supply/Tek_Reflectors/

This is an example of using 2x24 watts of the Giesemann bulbs over an ugly hex tank that is 24" high. The bulbs stick out from both sides of the stupid shape tank. Uglies home made light fixture you've ever seen but look at the results. One bulb doesn't even have a reflector! And the other one is not attached properly inside the reflector (the reflector comes with special clips that position the bulb very precisely inside the reflector. This guy didn't even use them and still his plants are fine 24" below.)

Scroll down to see the pictures on each page:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...tic-plant-club/55198-starting-up-today-2.html

Now look at the health of the plants on the bottom:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...tic-plant-club/55198-starting-up-today-7.html

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...tic-plant-club/55198-starting-up-today-8.html

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...tic-plant-club/55198-starting-up-today-9.html

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...ic-plant-club/55198-starting-up-today-11.html
--Nikolay


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## Emily6 (Feb 14, 2006)

I have pressurized CO2 injection coming in from the left side of the tank directly under the filter outflow, about mid-depth. The filter is on full tilt (It's a Penplax Cascade 1000). I don't think this is a problem with circulation, though- throughout the tank the stem plants seem lacking at about the same height. 

My tank is only 18" wide so I'm not as worried about good back to front coverage- it's the plants directly in the middle I feel are the best indicator at the moment. I've moved the more light-demanding plants there and they haven't really adjusted. 

I'm fine with more growth- I really just want more EVEN growth. I guess no matter what, though, the best light will be near the top. But right now all my stems are V shaped to the extreme.

Niko- I can't add reflectors but thanks for the specs. 

Now here's a rookie thought- can I bend the pre-existing reflectors? I feel like this can't work given my inability to do it precisely. It also doesn't solve my potential re-strike problem (thanks, Ebay). But no one ever mentions this idea, good bad or otherwise.


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## Emily6 (Feb 14, 2006)

Also, Niko, I'm currently running 36" T5HO 4 x 39w 6700k bulbs- besides spectrum, how are the Giesemann's different?


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

I don't know how any bulb differs from the ones I'm so adamant about.

But I do know that different bulbs with supposedly the same characteristics often, very often, produce different looking light. I think that if you don't buy what has proven to work well in many cases you don't really know what you have. Kelvin temperature is one good example because you can see the difference in bulbs labeled with the same Kelvin.

But to be honest you can grow plants with any bulb or light. The light is only one factor in it all. What I say here (and what anyone says about anything in this hobby) needs to be taken with the understanding that it is first off more or less a personal observation and second - there are many factors that affect the results.

For example - the pictures of the ugly shaped hexagonal tank. The tap water in the area where that guy lived is known around here for letting you grow many plants in conditions that are usually considered very much impossible. Maybe that's what let that guy grow such nice plants in his first ever planted tank. Here are pictures of the fish room of another guy in the same area. Read the comments under every picture. You will see how he basically breaks a lot of commonly accepted notions for this hobby (for example the need for strong light + CO2).

The point is - consider the many factors that make a planted tank happen - your 6700K light is probably just fine for growing whatever you want :

http://picasaweb.google.com/ddasega/Mike#

--Nikolay


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## Emily6 (Feb 14, 2006)

Niko- Interesting photos- I had a no CO2 tank for a while where I added almost nothing. I had plants at the time with few demands and the tank did great. But when I upgraded, finding the balance was a lot harder myself than letting the plants pick what worked. 

Anyway, I cleaned my filter last night, noticing that my water clarity has been poor (this seemed like a good *free* place to start my diagnosing). It was FILTHY. I think it only went less than 2 months without cleaning but I had a solid half inch of sludge between each layer. I'm not sure what was growth and what was build-up but it almost doesn't matter.

So now my water is much more clear- the bottom is noticeably more well lit- we'll see if my observations of declining plant growth are related to this. Clearly, I need to clean the filter more often...

I also removed almost all of the najas roraima- frequently it choked out surrounding plants. I re-arranged some driftwood and some plants to keep things better exposed to the light and prevent the aggressive plants from taking over. 

We'll see how this goes. I think if this isn't enough, I'll invest in a small single bulb fixture with a quality reflector matching my depth needs. 

Thanks everyone!


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Emily6,

I subscribed to this thread, please post updates on your progress! If you add a single strip, I am curious how things change.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Emily6 said:


> ... Clearly, I need to clean the filter more often..


Not so. Not so at all.

Do a search for posts that I've started. I have a sequence of about 10 posts called something like "Dummy question #XXX". If nothing else you will get the drift that many (if not most) of the notions in the planted tank hobby that we cherish and nurture here in the US are nicely put pathetic.

Or you can continue to do what you do if it works. After all the idea of a hobby is to have fun.

--Nikolay


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## Emily6 (Feb 14, 2006)

Understanding that a "dirty" filter can be biologically great, I think what was actually happening in my case is that the water was in fact never being forced through the filtration but was instead being squeezed through around the chambers. It's not exactly a top-of-the-line canister filter. I think I reached a threshold of dirtiness where this was actually forcing some of the growth/grit back into the tank. The amount of clarity after cleaning it was night and day from before.

But yes, trial and error- this could yield nothing too in the long run.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Yes, there is a problem with plugging up in all canister filter media that we commonly use in the US.

Now imagine that your filter:

1. Never clogs
2. Does its job perfectly
3. Never needs rinsing

There are filters like that. There are a lot of benefits from never disturbing the filter media.

What we normally do is get good results by cleaning the filter on a regular basis. It works, but it's not the best way to run an aquarium. The filter efficiency fluctuates + the microorganism population does not really develop as it should. Maybe that's why many people have issues with their aquariums. Especially planted in which we are trying to run a "semi-dirty" system to feed the plants.

--Nikolay


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## Emily6 (Feb 14, 2006)

Yeah, I know what you mean- when people ask me about their tanks, I try to discourage them from thinking that squeaky clean is good- it's a common misconception.

I've only had this filter for 5 months so I'm still learning it. I try not to change the media in it if it's still functional and it has ceramic beads for microorganism growth. So that never really suffers from my cleanings. But yeah, really the whole thing is a pain in the butt to get at and not make a mess in the process. For $100, I'm not really complaining though.


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