# ADA Products Overated ??



## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

Some people tend to catch feelings over this subject but Im just wondering
what other peoples thoughts were on ADA's products?
I mean lets be reasonable about this, yes we are all really into our
Planted tanks, we enjoy the hobby, but 90 dollars for some trimming sizzors ?!?!

http://www.adgshop.com/Pro_Scissors_p/106-116.htm

110 dollars for a glass diffuser ?? 780 dollars for 2x 65 watt lamp ?? No, but I forgot to mention its a SOLAR lamp, now it sound reasonable ?? NOT ! I would never pay that much regardless how much I enjoy the hobby, Im sorry but IMO ADA products are really overated, and its even worst that we support that.....


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

It's all a mater of perception as far as I'm concerned. Is their stuff expensive? I guess. Is it quality stuff? Probably. Is their way "the only way". No.

Just because you think it's expensive doesn't mean someone else has a problem with it. Market principles of supply and demand will tend to keep the price of things about where they should be. Obviously somebody is buying their stuff.


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## Brilliant (Jun 25, 2006)

ADA is top notch. While some of their products can be substituted others are vital to success of many aquariums.

I can understand your initial sticker $hock, been there too...but now I have ADA cube and AquaSoil...I support ADA and I am proud of it....stick with the hobby and you will be too.


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## Paul Munro (Aug 5, 2007)

ADA products are THE BEST. 

there's nothing else like them - a COMPLETE range of everything you could need, and don't forget that Amano invented the entire philosophy behind how things should work and what you need.

The design is in a class of it's own in the world of aquatics, as a designer myself I am constantly let down by the aesthetic consideration of other brand designs, and think that there is definately HUGE space for competitiion with ADA, though no-one is taking this position.

U think that ADA stuff is expensive?

Try living in the UK, I garauntee we pay 3 TIMES what US pay for ANY ADA product.


the reason many begrudge ADA products is that no-one else makes what we demand, therefore there is NO competition and prices can go where they like!


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Meh...to each their own. I've managed quite well without "special" trimming scissors, "special" substrates, etc. But I've also dropped a pretty penny or two on lighting, filtration, CO2, etc.

If you don't want to spend the money on ADA, then you'll probably just spend it somewhere else on something else for the tank.

But, hey, it's your money to spend on what you want. If $90 bucks for a pair of scissors floats your boat, then get'em!

Of course, I've seen very nice "minimalist" tanks here that don't require a ton of money on supplies and lighting and substrates. It is all about what YOU want to work with. If you had the money to buy a Ford Focus (like me) OR a BMW, what would you buy? Do you need the BMW? No, you probably need something to get you from Point A to Point B. However, if you have the desire for something a bit nicer with a recognizable name and has the amneties, then why not buy the BMW? It is your money to do with what you want?


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## Minsc (May 7, 2006)

Aquasoil is a really decent price, compare it by volume and it costs about the same as eco, and a great product.
For the quality, the tanks themselves seem pretty reasonable. As for the glassware, I believe they pioneered those products, diffusers, lilly pipes and such though the price point seems a bit high...

The rest of it I'll skip, though premixed ferts and substrate additives are great for the beginner who doesn't want to DIY such things.

I think it is important to remember that all ADA items are imported from Japan, and may have inflated prices because of this.

Buy what you want, leave the rest at the store.


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## Brilliant (Jun 25, 2006)

DonaldmBoyer said:


> If you had the money to buy a Ford Focus (like me) OR a BMW, what would you buy? Do you need the BMW?


Depends...are we talking SVT or what!!??? BMW...hmmm M series?! Now if you said Audi R8...no contest


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

HA! Again, "To each his own," brotha! FIne, use the Audi R8 for comparison then!


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## wiste (Feb 10, 2006)

> but 90 dollars for some trimming sizzors ?


This is not overpriced. If they had tungsten carbide blades this would be a bargain.
Amortize the cost over 20 years.
Try searching for "Metzenbaum Scissors german stainless steel" a similar product (long thin scissors with a short blade).
If you find some of these which are 12" long for under 90 dollars, post the seller.


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## Chostshrimp (May 28, 2007)

I do agree with you, i really wouldn't spend $90 for scissors. I mean we all can't always get the best. If we did, their would be no poverty in the world, but there is. I'm not sayigng that should stop buying ADA products, but that they are a bit out of reach for some people.I also hate that Amano (even do he is great0 has many displessing followers that say he is the knower and that everything should be done his way. I mean if some one wants to have some rare rock that doesn't look natural , but is he or she should not be intimitated becuase he is not being too ADA. Also, natural aquairums that people grow for fun do not need a comment of " O, I like this over here, that over there, O and take one fish out to make 7 my lucky number and don't forget to spend another fortune on my type of pressured CO2 760854703673677365, you need one or you don't have a planted aquairum"


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## TNguyen (Mar 20, 2005)

Here we go again. Why, why, why. 
The reasonable thing to do is just enjoy the hobby guys! 

Cheers!


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## bigstick120 (Mar 8, 2005)

Expensive is subjective. That why there are a billion products out there that do similar things, but prices of these similar products vary. Is Wal-Mart brand product X any different then name brand product X? Maybe. Are you willing to pay the difference? Some are and some aren't, the choice is yours. Some want 90.00 ADA scissors some settle for regular house scissors. Some think ADA aqua soil is the bomb others prefer the cheaper soilmaster. The choice is yours.


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## Jdinh04 (Oct 7, 2004)

I don't think there is a point ranting about ADA products. It is your money and you can choose what to do with it. Yes I agree that some of the ADA products are expensive, but not everything can be cheap. 

But as TNguyen said, its just enjoy the hobby and stop ranting!!!!


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

Sex sells boys and girls. Not to say the ADA products don't have function they do and they are very good, but it's more than the function it's how the products make the user feel that is equally important. The beauty of what's inside the tank is matched by the products on the outside and the tank itself. Some might not feel this is important, but of course many do. With ADA it is not simply a matter of getting from point A to B, but how you look doing it. It should be no surprise that in a hobby that is mostly about aesthetics that a company like ADA would find success.


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## NoSvOrAx (Nov 11, 2006)

Seems to me that ADA is the Apple of the aquarium world.


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## puttyman70 (Aug 7, 2007)

The value of anything is completely subjective. I heard on cnn today that someone paid 16 million dollars for a faberge egg?! Not exactly how I would spend an extra 16 million, but it takes all kinds.


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## Erirku (Oct 5, 2004)

Here we go again...
My thoughts will always be the same on ADA. I really believe in its products and others. It is expensive but I go for quality and the simplistic asethetics of ADA. Where else can you find trimless tanks that don't bow in the front and back and with a 5 year warranty. For example, I had a pair of tweezer from a particular site and when I purchased my ADA pro-pincettes tweezers from ADG there was a remarkedly different feel. The quality and how light and durable they are. I feel like ADA is Louis Vutton, since someone mentioned cars. LOL . I don't mind spending money on great products that stick to what they do. So it is always up to the consumer on how and what they want to spend their money on. Think about how atheletes are getting paid in the $millions$!!!


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## travis (Oct 5, 2004)

NoSvOrAx said:


> Seems to me that ADA is the Apple of the aquarium world.


LOL, that is spot on.


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## dekstr (Oct 30, 2007)

I think it's ADA's point to make it so expensive, so conversations like this can happen, meaning they get more attention, meaning more people will know how special their brand is. 

Anyone can sell a pair of scissors for $90, but can they back it up? ADA market themselves as a top-notch brand, probably as the best planted tank + accessories company, which is why they are so successful--because they can back it up.

I don't think there's anything wrong with ADA in themselves, I like their products very much in fact.

It's like saying "WHY ARE FERRARIS SO EXPENSIVE? I MEAN YOU CAN BUY A CHEAPER CAR LIKE A FORD FOCUS AND IT GETS YOU FROM POINT A TO B JUST THE SAME".

You can say ferrari is overrated, because it's so expensive, but they do back up their price by selling what they do as the best in the world. Kind like what ADA does, they are the best in the world at "Amano-style" and related products, and nobody else can offer what they sell. After all, it was invented by the man himself. The pair of scissors is not only a generic pair of scissors, but "ADA" scissors. Is there a real "cutting" difference? Probably not, but people pay for it anyway.


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## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

Honestly I think you guys are all caught up in the hype...
Seriously... Theres nothing those 90 dollar sizzors can do that
any other extra long sizzors cant do... but honestly you guys made some reasonable
points. There are Lexus's and there are Fords, both do the same thing but the name outsells.
And you can buy whatever you want with your money, but mine will go on the 99 cent sizzors
from walmart and the rest towards the lexus if you'd ask me....
Also I didnt look at it like that, I looked at it like damn these guys trying to take advantage
of the hobby... Not downing anyone who pays it....


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## Freemann (Mar 19, 2004)

I think we are reaching a point in humanity's history where functionality and durability should be the prime incentives for purchasing any kind of product. There is a big myth surrounding a number of products, like you can get success by using ada while you are bound to fail if you use something else, also I really dislike the elitist attitude that surrounds the use of such products, the hobby advances with the trials and failures of the everyday hobbyist and not the secret recepes of any Amano, braceless tanks will bow no matter if this are Amano or not, all scissors will fail if you grind them on aquarium gravel, Lots of times what I need to consider is not the Amano products but the reason they succed (Ada has not done much to reveal the reasons), now I agree that if you have tons of money you can spend them in whatever you want but still always remember that there are people still dying from hunger in this planet and we live in excess. Amano lights and all the rest won't guaranty success, balance lots of reading and personal experience will do, do not elude yourselves on this one, And if you are dexterous with your hands and have time you can create tanks on your own comparable with the Amano look, it is all a matter of energy invested. Maybe I am the wrong person to speak of this, I always disliked the Amano attitude and the sensei crap.

P.S For me it all comes down to this, you can have healthy super plants without using Amano products (not even aquasoil) but just everyday chemicals and DIY contraptions)


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## Erirku (Oct 5, 2004)

Freemann said:


> I think we are reaching a point in humanity's history where functionality and durability should be the prime incentives for purchasing any kind of product. There is a big myth surrounding a number of products, like you can get success by using ada while you are bound to fail if you use something else, also I really dislike the elitist attitude that surrounds the use of such products, the hobby advances with the trials and failures of the everyday hobbyist and not the secret recepes of any Amano, braceless tanks will bow no matter if this are Amano or not, all scissors will fail if you grind them on aquarium gravel, Lots of times what I need to consider is not the Amano products but the reason they succed (Ada has not done much to reveal the reasons), now I agree that if you have tons of money you can spend them in whatever you want but still always remember that there are people still dying from hunger in this planet and we live in excess. Amano lights and all the rest won't guaranty success, balance lots of reading and personal experience will do, do not elude yourselves on this one, And if you are dexterous with your hands and have time you can create tanks on your own comparable with the Amano look, it is all a matter of energy invested. Maybe I am the wrong person to speak of this, I always disliked the Amano attitude and the sensei crap.
> 
> P.S For me it all comes down to this, you can have healthy super plants without using Amano products (not even aquasoil) but just everyday chemicals and DIY contraptions)


I have my own thoughts and opinions on ADA. The last thing I want to hear about is people dying from hunger! But what does America do for them? 
Lets stay on the topic.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Don't forget that the value of the U.S. dollar has dropped a lot recently relative to other currencies. The prices of everything made outside of the U.S. are going up. It is going to get a lot worse.


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## bigstick120 (Mar 8, 2005)

Mr. Fish said:


> Some people tend to catch feelings over this subject but Im just wondering
> what other peoples thoughts were on ADA's products?
> I mean lets be reasonable about this, yes we are all really into our
> Planted tanks, we enjoy the hobby, but 90 dollars for some trimming sizzors ?!?!
> ...


Im going to guess that you have no experience with ADA products, other then seeing the price


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## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

Its just hard for me to believe that those sizzors do something more
special than my 99 cent silver sizzors do. They cut perfect, i've topped alot of plants
perfect with them and growth shows, other than the extra length theres no point
of them. And when do sizzors ever get dull ?? like a couple years, then after that
I can go back and spend another buck and save my 90 dollars for something more
valuable like a spare 10lb co2 tank, some plants, ect....

I agree 100 percent with Freeman, Ammno may be a legend to planted tanks, but
does that mean we have to do everything his way? We will only have success using HIS
products ? I thought this hobby was built of do'ers ?


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

I believe experience and self experimentation can shed light on some of these things. I mean not to offend or diss anyone, but how can it be said that one thing grows something better than something else or is better than something else if you have not witnessed the differences first hand. While you cannot always discount other peoples' experiences, I have discovered major inconsistencies among people where they have tried the same things only to achieve different results. For example, you still see references where people state that they had not had anything grow as well as it did in pool filter sand over laterite, kitty litter, or even just plain old top soil capped with gravel, while others state and swear that they have had nothing but problems using these types of subtrates. I have grown plants in Shultz Aquatic Soil only, Schultz Aquatic Soil and Fluorite combined, Fluorite only, top soil capped off with gravel, and Seachem Onyx sand capped over mulm, leonardite, and peatmoss.

After hearing about all the great reviews about ADA Amazonian I and II from so many and such notable plant gurus as Tom Barr, I decided to tear a 10 gallon fluorite tank down and redo it using Amazonian II and ADA brite sand. I am not saying that my experiences will be reflective of what others find as sometimes tap water differences, stocking levels of fish, planting density, c02 consistency, lighting, and ferts used may result in different outcomes. Hopefully, though, perhaps what I learn and share, can help others in weighing their options.

I agree that it is expensive, but I was fortunate to have the money to buy it.

SMS subtrate is next on the experimental list.


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## mikenas102 (Feb 8, 2006)

Mr. Fish said:


> Its just hard for me to believe that those sizzors do something more
> special than my 99 cent silver sizzors do. They cut perfect, i've topped alot of plants
> perfect with them and growth shows, other than the extra length theres no point
> of them. And when do sizzors ever get dull ?? like a couple years, then after that
> ...


I agree completely. I still use the same cheapo wally-world scissors that I used to trim the first bunch of plants I ever had. I don't need to sit in traffic in a Maserati to know that all that speed and bling I paid for does nothing in bumper 2 bumper traffic that a Ford can't do. I don't need to experience $90 scissors to know I just got hosed.


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## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

Exactly, like you guys make it seem like your cutting hard plastic or cardboard with those
sizzors. Your only cutting plants, plants cannot dull sizzors for a good 2- 3 years anyways...
So whats makes them special? Because Ammno says if you use German steel sizzors you'll
get the best growth ? lol smh And also you cant compare two seperate cars from sizzors
as an example, theres a major difference.... Theres too many upgraded
features in the car to name, as to both of those sizzors do the same thing
and get the same growth...


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## TNguyen (Mar 20, 2005)

Mr. Fish said:


> Exactly, like you guys make it seem like your cutting hard plastic or cardboard with those
> sizzors. Your only cutting plants, plants cannot dull sizzors for a good 2- 3 years anyways...
> So whats makes them special? Because Ammno says if you use German steel sizzors you'll
> get the best growth ? lol smh And also you cant compare two seperate cars from sizzors
> ...


??????????? 
I'm puzzled. What is the point of this thread? Who say you have to use only ADA products? It seems like you already made up your mind on what you want.


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## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

:blabla: :rant: Rant, Rant, Rant:rant: :blabla: 

I like ADA products, I have use them and have had great results with them. Are the result a product of me suddenly using ADA, NO. Do I use 100% ADA, no.

Regardless of price Amano set out to supply equipment that was top of the line. Not shabby pieces that require replace on a regular basis. (I have talked about this at length referring to glass diffusers)

I understand that some pieces of equipment are or may seem overpriced. I personally do not have any of the stainless hardware from ADA. Would I buy it, if I had the money yes. Do I want it because of some elite-ism feeling it gives me, no. I think that the hardware is good, I especially like the tweezers (pro pincettes). What hardware I have bought so far is solid and really well made, better than the equipment that I had previously. The ferts and substate that I have and still use has given me top notch results, and I have used and made other ferts and substrates before.

I do have a ADA tank, and I love it (when I bought my last tank, 75g, my only regret was that I could not afford a ADA). It flexes, a little; but it is clean, sleek and modern :drool: looking and gives an effect of simplicity that could not be pulled off with a bulky trimmed tank.

I do not believe that Amano's attitude or philosophy is that of use his products or you tank can not look as good as mine. From what I have gathered (my opinion), is that ADA products are a bridge to help get the results like his; because the aquarium industry did not and to a point is not geared toward planted tanks. To this day I still get misinformed and misguided by LFS basing there answers on fish only tanks. Most of the industry does not get it. Where as ADA does understand the needs of a planted tank keeper.

All I can say is to use what materials and hardware you like to use, and gives you the results you want. Ultimately, the path that takes you to the end is not near as important as being at the end. 

kind of ranted there myself.:madgrin:


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## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

TNguyen said:


> ???????????
> I'm puzzled. What is the point of this thread? Who say you have to use only ADA products? It seems like you already made up your mind on what you want.


Yes your correct I do have my mind set on what I use.
I just wanted to hear why some of yall used those products but didnt
expect the answers Ive read so far so the thread kept moving.


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## Ghazanfar Ghori (Jan 27, 2004)

Mr. Fish said:


> ...Im sorry but IMO ADA products are really overated, and its even worst that we support that.....


You cannot use a blanket statement like that.

Anyone who has used the substrates will vouch for how well they grows plants. 
IMO they're priced well.

ADA aquariums and glassware are of high quality - even non hobby folks can appreciate 
their quality, thats how good it is. Again priced well.

That leaves you with the lighting system and misc hardware/sissors. There is no 
denying that they demand a premium price. But so what? Don't buy it. And noone went 
out and claimed that the ADA scissors trims plants any better than any other sissor - so 
I don't get your whole 'over rated' claim or the point of this thread.


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## dstephens (Nov 30, 2005)

Funny, but it seems to me that over the past few years, there have been more than one or two threads aimed at slamming the pricing strategy used by ADA to market and sell their products. It really doesn't make much sense to rant on and on about something that is what it is because it works and works very well. 

It's not unfair. It's not taking advantage of the humble aquarist. It's not gouging anyone. No one is getting ripped off. 

We all have the great and wonderful privilege of personal choice. No one is forced to buy Mr. Amano's products....... While I believe, just me, not speaking for all of the free world, I believe he set the early standard in creating aquatic gardens as an art form, not just a planted tank with fish swimming around, but true works of art. If you read his publications, you come to understand that much of what he shares about his success today was learned through hard work, life's experience, trial and error. The products he markets are for the most part a result of the "sweat equity" he and his team invested in the refinement of what is much more than a hobby to them. 

So, they sell their products at a premium price because they work and they work with a minimum amount of guess work involved at fine tuning to make it work for us and our individual aquatic gardens. If used correctly, it can be very advantageous for the novice or the advanced aquarist. 

It seems to me that every market out there has a low end product, a bunch in the middle, one or two better than others and lastly, "best in class". My personal opinion is that many ADA products fall into the "best in class" category and as a result, they charge a premium. In the end, it is up to the consumer as to what their budget allows them to do and what they ultimately buy. It has nothing to do with price gouging, hosing the aquarist community or anything like that. As the consumer, you actually hold all of the cards by deciding to buy what you want. There is no shortage of product choice for aquatic gardners, so why start and sustain a rant against the guy and his company that helped elevate the status and create the market as it is today, giving us all more to choose from than we ever had before? 

That's my five cents.


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## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

Can we stop this thread.
This thread has become a pointless rant about people who don't want to buy ADA, and the people who love using it.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

kwc1974 said:


> Can we stop this thread.
> This thread has become a pointless rant about people who don't want to buy ADA, and the people who love using it.


Agreed the thread should be locked.

We are just beating a dead horse.
:deadhorse:


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## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

Even I agree, close this.... Its pointless....


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

dstephens said:


> Funny, but it seems to me that over the past few years, there have been more than one or two threads aimed at slamming the pricing strategy used by ADA to market and sell their products. It really doesn't make much sense to rant on and on about something that is what it is because it works and works very well.
> 
> It's not unfair. It's not taking advantage of the humble aquarist. It's not gouging anyone. No one is getting ripped off.
> 
> ...


Very well said!

I'm not sure why anyone would knock choice. This site has people from each end of the spectrum so of course the products aren't going to appeal to everyone, which product does. It's a lifestyle choice, just like buying a car or a piece of clothing. If your thing is to just watch your plants grow and not worry about the look of the equipment, etc. great that's your thing, but if your thing is to create a piece of art that doesn't want to be compromised by equipment, etc. getting in the way of "the view" than the ADA products would probably appeal more to you. I'm really surprised at some of the comments here. No one's forcing anyone to do anything. There are plenty of products on the market to appeal to all.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

I can't decide if I'd rather unsubscribe or close the thread.............

Ugggggggh, ok. Enough.

Thread closed.

If anyone really thinks it needs to be re-opened, please PM and I'll make sure you get a chance to add your $0.05.


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