# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Newbie needs some advice with third attempt.



## rayon1984 (Feb 17, 2005)

Hi I was looking for a little advice. I'm getting ready to start my third attempt next week. My first two attempts were disasters. The tanks got overran with algae. I now know that I was doing alot wrong such as no co2 (I had it, but it wasnt working), and fertilizing wrong. I was hoping I could get a little input before I did this attempt, so hopefully it will be successful. Here are the specs first.

- 20G high
- Oceanic HO compact fixture w/ 55w GE9325K bulb
- Peguin biowheel HOB filter w/ biowheel and carbon removed
- Hagen co2 system (although I do my own mixture of yeast/sugar)
- Eco-Complete substrate
- Seachem Flourish Trace, Iron, Potassium, Nitrogen fertilizers

The tank is cycled. I've been experimenting with the co2 w/o plants. Before my co2 didnt work w/ biowheel and the hagen packets. Now with biowheel off, and my own mixture of yeast/sugar, I've got pH 6.8, KH 6 (compared to pH 7.5, KH 6 w/o co2...so I know it's working now). This is without plants though, but I have another co2 container I can add if plants pull my co2 level down alot.

Until I get a successfull tank (as in growing w/o algae...dont care about looks yet) I'll be buying plants at my LFS, which doesnt have a large selection. They mainly have Anachris, Moneywort, Bacopa Carolina, Cabomba Carolina, and Wisteria.

On to my questions:
1.) When should I start fertilizing? Kind of looking for detail on this. I'm assuming co2 from day one, but what about nitrogen? And how long should I wait until dosing traces/iron/pot. I know the desired levels of the nutrients, but just not what to start when.
2.) With just trying to get a tank running, not really worried about aquascaping, are those plants listed above going to work okay?
3.) Anything wrong about my setup? (I.E. is the lighting okay?)

And also any input or advice would be appreciated. If I can get a tank running I'll go and buy pressurized co2, mail order plants, etc., but I don't want to do this until I'm sure I will beable to succeed in this hobby. Hopeing this attempt will be successful. Thanks ahead of time for any advice given.


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## rayon1984 (Feb 17, 2005)

Hi I was looking for a little advice. I'm getting ready to start my third attempt next week. My first two attempts were disasters. The tanks got overran with algae. I now know that I was doing alot wrong such as no co2 (I had it, but it wasnt working), and fertilizing wrong. I was hoping I could get a little input before I did this attempt, so hopefully it will be successful. Here are the specs first.

- 20G high
- Oceanic HO compact fixture w/ 55w GE9325K bulb
- Peguin biowheel HOB filter w/ biowheel and carbon removed
- Hagen co2 system (although I do my own mixture of yeast/sugar)
- Eco-Complete substrate
- Seachem Flourish Trace, Iron, Potassium, Nitrogen fertilizers

The tank is cycled. I've been experimenting with the co2 w/o plants. Before my co2 didnt work w/ biowheel and the hagen packets. Now with biowheel off, and my own mixture of yeast/sugar, I've got pH 6.8, KH 6 (compared to pH 7.5, KH 6 w/o co2...so I know it's working now). This is without plants though, but I have another co2 container I can add if plants pull my co2 level down alot.

Until I get a successfull tank (as in growing w/o algae...dont care about looks yet) I'll be buying plants at my LFS, which doesnt have a large selection. They mainly have Anachris, Moneywort, Bacopa Carolina, Cabomba Carolina, and Wisteria.

On to my questions:
1.) When should I start fertilizing? Kind of looking for detail on this. I'm assuming co2 from day one, but what about nitrogen? And how long should I wait until dosing traces/iron/pot. I know the desired levels of the nutrients, but just not what to start when.
2.) With just trying to get a tank running, not really worried about aquascaping, are those plants listed above going to work okay?
3.) Anything wrong about my setup? (I.E. is the lighting okay?)

And also any input or advice would be appreciated. If I can get a tank running I'll go and buy pressurized co2, mail order plants, etc., but I don't want to do this until I'm sure I will beable to succeed in this hobby. Hopeing this attempt will be successful. Thanks ahead of time for any advice given.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

1) Wait 2-4 weeks before adding ferts. Add C02 from day one.

2)Start with a lot of fast growers like the Anacharis & wisteria. Also add some Moneywort & Bacopa. I would skip the C. Carolina because it can be difficult to grow.

3)Lights are good. Before adding N03/P04 test your readings first. Start off slow adding ferts(1/2 of what label says) than increase if needed.


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## TWood (Dec 9, 2004)

"1) Wait 2-4 weeks before adding ferts."

Why?

See this discussion:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2814

TW


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Because from what I have read in magazines the plants use stored nutrients for the first 2-4 weeks, so ferts are not needed during this time. I have always waited 4 weeks to begin a fert regimine with great succes, no algae issues during the first 4 weeks.


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## imported_baj (Aug 5, 2004)

I think the clause YMMV needs to be added here. I am the impatient type and I dumped ferts in my tank right after planting without a major algae outbreak. Of course, it is best not to go overboard and turn the aquarium water into a nutrient soup. I do agree with starting off with half of required amounts as thats what I did. IMHO, that just boils down to erring on the side of caution, and has nothing to do with plant physiology. I dont see why if ferts are added on day one why shouldnt the plants keep their available stores and use the nutrients in the water column? It doesnt make sense. Maybe, if the plants are in transit in a ziploc for like 7 days, they might take a day to switch from using stored nutrients to readily available nutrients, this is something I am pulling outa you know where, I have nothing to back this up.
Short answer is, for a person very new to planted tanks, the question should be how much to start dosing and not when. This is only because time and patience is the best way to know the requirements of your tank and to get ballpark figures on how much you need to regularly dose.


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## TWood (Dec 9, 2004)

I'm not buying the 'reserves' argument at all. Evolution has seen to it that every living organism on the planet will -preserve- reserves when there are new nutrient sources available. Plants need what they need, why not provide it from the start?

TW


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## imported_baj (Aug 5, 2004)

Exactly! It's not in sync with evolution, if there are nutrients in the environment the organism will use that first and conserve its store. 
Although, I would prefer if I was tuned such that I would refuse food until I completely use every single fat reserve I have, before eating my next meal. At least that way I wouldn't have to rely solely on wilpower to lose weight.


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

My last four tanks are very similar to yours with Eco-Complete. I started off with every thing set up from day one and do test to see how much NO3 and PO4 I need to add. BUT the key to adding ferts from day one is to have plants that are very healthy and growing well in the tanks they come form. If I went out to the LFS or ordered from on-line I would wait until I see the new plants starting to get new growth. Its all about the plants. If they are growing from day one they need ferts from day one. If they are recovering from shock the may not need ferts right away.

Hawk


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Well guys I see what you are saying but on the other hand I see the reasoning in waiting also to dose ferts. Since waiting 4 weeks works for me I will continue to do it that way and if dosing from day one works for you guys then great, keep doing it that way.


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## imported_baj (Aug 5, 2004)

Trenac, good attitude! 
I dont understand the reasoning behind the wait though, it is just that I dont know enough, is there some place I can look this up? Just curious.


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## rayon1984 (Feb 17, 2005)

Thanks for everyone's advice. I think I'm going to raise co2 levels before planting, then after planting watch my plants (probably take digital pictures to compare growth). Once I see definate new growth I'll start slowly fertilizing in small dosages. This sound good?

I think I'll have better luck this time. To compare my last try, I had no working co2 and dosed one of those multi-nutrient fertilizers full dosage (what the bottle said) on day one. By the time the first week was over the tank was just nothing but I believe cynobacteria. Clean the tank and it would be back in 2 days. Don't think that will happen this time (hopefully)

I am curious though as to how much plants will lower my co2 level? Say if I have 25ppm w/o plants, how much can it be expected to go down with plants?

Also, with the plants I've listed would you pretty much fill up the tank? Exactly how many plants is enough? 

Another question, should I do a potassium permanganate dip to the plants before planting to help from introducing algae? The plants I buy don't have noticable algae on them, but other plants in the LFS (same tank) do sometimes.

Thanks,
Ryan


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