# Lil help understanding Ferts



## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

Ok from what I've been learning so far is, the key
to a succesful planted tank is all about balance.
Balance of light, Steady Co2, and balanced nutrients.
Now I want to better understand what I'm actually dosing into
my 29 Gallon tank so I can know what I need to add more off and what not.

Now I currently dose the following:

NO3- 1/4 Tsp 3 times a week
KH2PO4- 1/8 tsp 3 times a week
K2SO4- 1/8 tsp 3 times a week

And seperatly dose:

CSM+B- 1/8 Tsp 3 times a week

Now as I was using the Fertilator I typed it
in as Decimals for the Teaspoon readings.

Now what its showing is this:

Nitrate- 7.26
PO4- 4.45
Potasium- 6.92
Iron- 0.19
and for calcium and Mg i dont know what the measurements are

Now some its saying Im low of and some saying Im higher of, does this look correct?
And how should I go abouts handaling this situation...?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Fertilizing is not an exact science. There seems to be two categories of opinion about it - one is dose to excess to be sure to always have enough of everything, and the other is to dose just what the plants need because excess isn't a good idea. I prefer the first opinion, but that doesn't mean I'm right. If you follow the EI method, you are favoring the first opinion. If you follow the PPS pro method you are favoring the second opinion. If you try to mix and match, it might work and it might not.


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## Brilliant (Jun 25, 2006)

I guess you can say you caught me at the right time. I have lots to write...

Fertilizing can be an exact science if all the variables are known. This is the downfall of EI...it is made for all tanks. Excess may be minimal in one and enormous in the other. I think there is way more then two categories to fertilizing. I would just say there are two categories for water column dosing...maybe three. EI, EI lite (whatever that is) and PPS. I think Hoppy's advice is good, it is best to have more then less/deficiency. Especially when starting a new tank that has co2 and lighting.

Even tho the big keyword to fertilizing is balance I think its better to think ratio. For example, with the proper ratio you can dose your fertilizer solution and by checking N only you will know P and K are good because ratio is correct. The ratio is key and I think the ratio posted by Wö£fëñxXx in EI sticky is the best. I am not opposed to trying more.

I find that PPS leads to magnesium excess. I have experienced the worst plant growth ever after using PPS for one month. A dosing plan especially one dosed daily should not consist of calcium or magnesium.

I do find PPS particularly helpful in tweaking your fertilizing plan. Read PPS literature and use it for all its worth. I would use the dosing regime/ratio found here in Estimated Index sticky. I would then test for nitrates after one week. If your nitrates are high then you need to cut dosing 20%. If your nitrate are low increase 10%. After making this change wait week or two before testing again and making next change.

If you have a lower light tank or tank with rich substate like AquaSoil then you dont really need to dose water coulumn with macros like nitrate. Instead focus on trace nutrients and potassium.

More tips...whatever dosing plan you follow don't blindly follow the recipe over dosing your tank to no end. Use fertilator as a tool to check your math not dose your tank. Forget about calcium and magnesium.

One thing you need to do is listen to your plants not other people.


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## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

Brilliant said:


> One thing you need to do is listen to your plants not other people.


Thats actually the best advice I have been givin....
Thats true, but one that doesent understand the problems
and how to prevent that could be an issue.
My new growth looks healthy, just my only problem is
BBA and film algae.... also Nitrates dont get absorbed as quick, maybe due to
my goldfish tho......other than that im good.
Just got my Flourish excell in the mail today, ill try dosing that.
Also I use the EI method, dose 3 times a week then 50 percent water change
at the end of the week to make sure you dont over stock... Its pretty effective,
But I just wanna provide exact measures as to I wanna start getting into Aquascaping.
I think the best way is to make solutions just not sure of the reciepie...


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

A problem with trying for "just right" fertilizing is that if you are successful the plant grow very well, and the plant mass increases 3X or more very quickly. You then have to keep increasing that "just right" dosage to keep up with the increasing demand. That can be a fun activity (a hobby is supposed to be fun), but only if you enjoy that part of the hobby. EI doses as if the tank already has the 3X or more plant mass, and gets rid of the excess thru big water changes, which benefit the fish as well as the plants anyway. So, I don't think either type of dosing is the best way, but one way might better fit your hobby needs, making it best for you. You can grow plants very well either way.


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## Paul Munro (Aug 5, 2007)

Dude, I just chuck it in and it just works out!

Guesstimation is the way forward!

Always dose slightly over what u think is needed


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## Legacy2005 (Sep 18, 2007)

ive gone the route of excess is better, vs. just enough. ive been using the pfertz and when i was following what the bottle said i was getting bad algae, so i started dosing daily instead of every other day and increased the "pumps" to double the directions. since then the algae is 99% gone and the plants seem to be growing healthy.

will probably switch to dry ferts once the pfertz is gone, since it seems a lot easier to deal with and you get more for the
money.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

I couldn't agree more with the listening to your plants and not people idea suggested by Brilliant. Finding the best fert dosing fit for your particular tank may initally take a lot of tweaking and finetuning, not to mention testing and observing and attempting to compensate for any signs of a plant nutrient deficiency. And man, you have to really be in love with this hobby to perservere and stick it out or you may find yourself pulling your hair out, out of frustration. Playing Sherlock Holmes with a tank can be fun or frustrating depending on how much time and effort you are prepared to put into the troubleshooting and detective work. Once you find the right fit that leads to stability and balance you will be set. 

However, manipulating light, c02, ferts, and plant mass can become a slippery slope and sometimes it may take a lot of patience and experimentation to achieve stability and balance. And of course, stability and balance are not always so easy to maintain over the long run once you get there. That makes for a good reason to sometimes look at and experiment with different approaches(i.e., natural planted tanks or low maintenance tanks) where you don't have to manipulate a lot of variables to achieve balance and stabilty, the balance and stability is not easily compromised when you achieve it, and the tank is less forgiving of errors and mistakes because you are not working with so many variables, especially the key ones(high light and c02 injection).


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## puttyman70 (Aug 7, 2007)

Brilliant said:


> One thing you need to do is listen to your plants not other people.


Very good advice. The hard part is learning how to speak plant. That's one thing I wish the dosing methods talked more about, "If you are following the directions and your plants do this then do more/less of that." I dose using the seachem line and I believe it says something like adjust as necessary. As these are the first plants of any kind I have ever tried to grow it is hard to know where to start the adjustments.

Maybe patience and experimentation would be a good rules of thumb as well. In the time I have been on this forum my plants have gone from dieing to just sitting there to healthy almost algae free growth.


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## Brilliant (Jun 25, 2006)

Thanks everyone. That is right there is no Rosetta Stone book for plant language.

All of my advice is based on experience and what I learned from others first hand. I am keeping eight planted tanks using all kinds of techniques. I have learned plenty from others and wish to strengthen my own knowledge by sharing it.

When I first started I was hesitant to add ferts....mainly because I thought they hurt my fish. I was listening to everyone but trying my own thing dosing what I wanted...which was very little nitrate and little if any phosphate. Well this lean strategy led to disaster on my high light tank. On my low light tanks it’s quite alright because it is much slower pace, you get more slack for errors. Like Homer said it’s a less stress maintaining a lower light/maintenance tank. But...!

I found that trials and errors with my "SuperNova" tank using metal halides and T5 taught me plant language really fast. Sure the faster you drive the harder you crash but! I learned deficiencies so quickly and how to remedy them because things happened so fast. I think a high light tank is similar to a magnifying glass. I would be very foolish to suggest starting with high light tank but I cannot avoid sharing this point.

I actually got some great help from the man himself...Craig AKA Wö£fëñxXx. He took the time to speak with me. He literally pulled me out of the fire and set me on my way. He told me to read the plants... He also gave me some great advice about my co2/flow/lighting and guided me away from my algafied mess. As far as I'm concerned my plant knowledge began with that conversation.

Unfortunately I was sucked back into the flames and had to try PPS. One thing I learned from this experience is once you find that sweet spot never stray from it. You know...don’t fix it if it isn’t broken. Being the endless perfectionist that I am I could never be sure about the other technique until I tried it. Now I know.

Here are some of the things I learned about deficiencies. This is taking for granted you are using the dosing ratio in the sticky I mentioned before and you do not have rich substrate like AquaSoil OR high bioload ::cough cough::...GOLDFISH! 

- The first thing to do is forget about calcium and magnesium. In my opinion these two are the worst pitfalls. You spend your days looking to those two for help...time wasted. I am planning on sharing more about this later after my new tank grows out...it’s about half way there.
- Yellow color or loss of vibrant green means you need more iron or trace mix which also contains iron. 
- Leaves at the bottom getting holes or poor leaf health means you need more macro mix.
- Twisting curling leaves of new growth. Yes I know this has been said before and debated until the cows come home but I feel strongly it is co2 and or flow. Sure you can pump plenty of co2 in your tank and still not obtain levels needed. This is due to many variables. Plant mass, inefficient reactor, poor flow and too much surface agitation.

A note to the OP... You’re keeping goldfish. This is a high bioload. Same as my technique on my discus tank I would stray from dosing macros: nitrate and phosphate. Like my discus your goldfish is naturally providing these nutrients. You are already experiencing green algae on glass and other nasty algae, this is from excess nutrients. I would suggest you drastically lower dosing of nitrate and phosphate along with shortening lighting to 8 hours or less. Keep up with maintenance/water changes and cleaning out as much algae as you can and eventually the work you put in will show. Sometimes it takes a while for a tank to come around. Do not give up.

It seems pretty easy to say, read the plants...but it really is that simple. If you’re patient and consistent (changing only one thing at a time) then you will learn the ins and outs of fertilizing in no time.


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## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

Ok see thats the problem Im encourntering.... 
I have Goldfish so dosing NO3 is only once per a week due to
the goldfish bioload... If not then at the end of the week before
I make my water changes my NitrAte is at 40.... The only other
nutrient thats in the KNO3 is a small ammount of Pottasium and I get that
with the other Fert I dose anyways...


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