# Help! First waslad attempt is failing!



## KingTheodin (Oct 21, 2019)

Ok so I started a 5 gallon Walstad method aquarium. Substrate is burpee organic potting mix, sand/gravel cap is from a local clear water creek. Plants and driftwood is from petsmart. Duckweed is from the local lake and had some small brown snails in it that poop everywhere. I’ve had the aquarium going for about a week now and the water gets a lot of tannins in it which I figure is normal for new unsoaked driftwood. Weird thing is over 2 days a lot of what looks like a faint fog or like a jelly like substance spread from the drift wood and too all the lower plants. I’m sure it’s from the snail excrement and the wood starting to decay. The duckweed grew like crazy and is now dieing so I removed a lot of it. I also have some what looks to be myriophyllum from the local lake that I just added. I’ve removed several of the snails and did a water change tonight and sucked all that crap out so it looks better but I know what’s going on isn’t right. Perhaps the unsoaked driftwood and the sand/pebbles from the creek was a problem? Before the water change my little bumblebee catfish was acting very sickly. Now he’s happy after a fresh oxygenated water change. I’m worried the plants I chose and the new wood and creek sand/pebbles are causing issues. Should I just relax and let it cycle and keep on almost daily water changes? Livestock is a betta and one tiny catfish and one ghost shrimp and then what nasty poop filled snails I couldn’t remove. Lighting is a finnex fugeray 9w with 660nm red LEDS at roughly 12 hours a day. Any help or thoughts or criticism is greatly appreciated!


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## KingTheodin (Oct 21, 2019)

I misspelled Walstad in the title. Sorry!


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Sounds normal to me. I'd add more plants. When the water gets too 'dirty', just do a water change.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

I don't think this is a disaster. Keep doing large water changes, and add LOTS of fast growing plants. Try several different types of stem plants, and get some frogbit if you can find it. The duckweed is normally good for this situation, but since yours came from a lake, it may be having trouble adapting to lower light.

A Finnex Fugeray is a very strong light for a Walstad tank. The Stingray would be a better choice. You may have algae problems. I suggest a siesta schedule of 4 hours on, 3 hours off, then 4 hours on. The frogbit will help with excess light.

Good luck!


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## KingTheodin (Oct 21, 2019)

I have staurogyne repens, cardinalis, dwarf hair grass, and a anubias nana. Have two little bits of bacopa caroliniana, and the what appears to be myriophyllum from the lake. I’m extremely stuck on what I can get in this small town. Petsmarts selection sucks and the bacopa from pet supplies plus is in a tank that’s over run with aglae. Perhaps I should bite the bullet and pay shipping for some good plants. What are some fast growing plants? Should I try to find more of the myriophyllum/hornwort look alike from the lake? Also, the bacopa I have isn’t looking all that happy either. It’s leaves have turned up but it’s starting to turn brown. The repens is starting to melt it looks like.


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## KingTheodin (Oct 21, 2019)

Found 12 frogbit for $9.95 on eBay and luckily eBay gave me a $5 off coupon so got the frogbit coming for $4.95! I also went and got 2 nerite snails, some sagittaria and an amazon sword. Two fastest growing plants I could find. Hopefully it’ll help with daily water changes. Sag is in the back, don’t know what strain it is. Label said sagittaria sp. so idk. Is water movement important or needed in this style of aquarium?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Photo shows a few small plants, yet a very deep substrate. I'm guessing that the soil layer has gone severely anaerobic; it is killing plant roots and deoxygenating the water as well.

Yes, you could get away with a deep substrate like this in a 55-70 gal with Amazon Swords, Crypts, Val, etc. In a small tank like this, though, hair grass and stem plants with their delicate root systems cannot adequately oxygenate their root system. 

I would remove as much of the substrate's top layer as possible. At least 1/3 should go. Those stones and driftwood are smothering the soil layer. I would poke the substrate with a sharp object (slender nail, etc) as a short-term emergency measure. This will introduce oxygenated water into the soil layer. If you use driftwood, make sure that it is not on top of the soil layer blocking oxygen exchange with soil layer. Water changes are a good idea. Until you get this under control (2-4 weeks), I would increase the water flow; it will bring more oxygen into the system and help the soil layer stabilize.

A too deep substrate in a small tank seems to be a common problem. My recommendation of 1" soil plus 1" of gravel works, but only if you start out with a goodly number of vigorous, good-rooted, healthy plants. If you don't have the plants to start out with, I would decrease the substrate depth.


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## KingTheodin (Oct 21, 2019)

Thanks Diana, that makes perfect sense to why I’m seeing no growth and such stagnant water conditions. I’ll drain it down and remove a good amount of gravel and replant/reorganize everything in the tank when I get home from work today. A lot of the plants I purchased were tissue cultures so what roots, if any, were underdeveloped. Thanks for your guidance and advice, from everyone. I’ll update in a few days with my progress!


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## KingTheodin (Oct 21, 2019)

Ok so I redid the whole tank. Pulled all the plants and trashed the whole substrate. Scrubbed the driftwood clean. When I pulled plants I noticed their roots were black and had a horrid smell of rotten decay. The driftwood had the same stench and the substrate was even worse. I used a healthy inch of new potting mix with maybe 3/4” of actual new aquarium gravel and when I set the drift wood I rested it a different way so it wasn’t protruding into the soil layer. Cleaned and replanted what plants that were still good, and I got a lot more of the fast growing myriophyllum/hornwort stuff from the lake and it’s showing signs of growth after a mere 2 days. Three pieces of it have extensive root systems too so they’re doing even better. The frogbit was put in Friday. I’ve got probably 9 or so ghost shrimp now and they’re always hard at work cleaning. I really think it’s going to turn out better this time. The first time around I already had weird smells and decay going on at the 3 day mark. Water is still hard to keep perfectly clear but I’ve only done one water change in three days. Pictures are attached.


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## zolteeC (Dec 26, 2017)

KingTheodin said:


> Ok so I redid the whole tank. Pulled all the plants and trashed the whole substrate. Scrubbed the driftwood clean. When I pulled plants I noticed their roots were black and had a horrid smell of rotten decay. The driftwood had the same stench and the substrate was even worse. I used a healthy inch of new potting mix with maybe 3/4" of actual new aquarium gravel and when I set the drift wood I rested it a different way so it wasn't protruding into the soil layer. Cleaned and replanted what plants that were still good, and I got a lot more of the fast growing myriophyllum/hornwort stuff from the lake and it's showing signs of growth after a mere 2 days. Three pieces of it have extensive root systems too so they're doing even better. The frogbit was put in Friday. I've got probably 9 or so ghost shrimp now and they're always hard at work cleaning. I really think it's going to turn out better this time. The first time around I already had weird smells and decay going on at the 3 day mark. Water is still hard to keep perfectly clear but I've only done one water change in three days. Pictures are attached.


In the meanwhile, while your tank progresses, it may be helpful to read the book titled Ecology of the Planted Aquarium. It describes a lot of potential pitfalls when using dirt in the tank and it may also help guide you in the right direction. The issue you were seeing is discussed there in detail.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Looks MUCH better! And it sounds like you understand what went wrong. Smart to add the Myriophyllum. 

I like that you've got an Amazon swordplant and Sagittaria, good rooted plants. Let's hope they dig into that soil and thrive. If you've got a decent amount of calcium in water (i.e., some hardness in the water) that Amazon should take off. 

Those red stem plants on the right. I'd spread them out more so each stem can get more light. Right now they look like they're all bunched together in a dark corner. 

You asked earlier about water current. Good question. In this situation, I would bump up the water flow to a modest current. Continuous gentle flow of oxygenated water over the substrate keep the soil layer from going severely anaerobic. Oxygen is the name of the game here. You can always poke the substrate with a long thin object first week. You shouldn't have any stinky smell.

Once the plants get growing well, then you can turn down water current and worry about conserving CO2. Right now, your tank probably has an excess of CO2.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Hello everyone! 

I see you all support water changes during the establishment of the tank. What volume are we talking about, at what frequency and for how long after day one?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I support one or two 30% water changes during the first two weeks after setup. Can't hurt and might be helpful.

That said, the primary problem that started this APC thread is that the soil layer was suffocating from lack of oxygen. Bacteria were dying, releasing anaerobic toxins, and sucking vital oxygen from plant roots, thereby killing them. Once the roots start dying, they add to the decomposing material in the substrate and make everything worse. I call this a substrate "melt down."

Water changes won't help if the soil layer is too deep, covered with rotting driftwood and a suffocating gravel/sand covering layer. 

When you have a festering sore, changing the external band-aid or the wound dressing won't do much. You need to open up the wound and flush out the core of the infection.

A water change will help, but it is a secondary measure, and in this situation, not all that meaningful.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Diana, thank you for your reply.

The analogy with a festering wound makes total sense and I understand what you mean.

I read that water changes in the beginning counteract the possibly excessive “emission” of nutrients through the gravel. I have a different case than what the current topic is about, so I think I’d better start a new thread, as I don’t mean to hijack or spam this one.

Thanks again


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## KingTheodin (Oct 21, 2019)

A little over a week in after the restart and things are completely different. Frogbit shot roots out almost 6 inches in a couple days, added some Ludwigia repens and its doing exceptional. Everything is showing signs of growth and the little 20gph betta filter is helping a lot. No more stench of hydrogen sulfide, water is clear but tinged beautifully with tannins. My bumble bee catfish is a completely different fish now. No more gasping and he joyfully swims and explores especially after lights out. He made a meal of a ghost shrimp too lol. The shrimp are now everywhere instead of clinging to the surface or myriophyllum where any small amount of oxygen was before the filter for flow/oxygenation. It’s a completely different and flourishing aquascape. Thanks so much Diana for the help and for sharing your wonderful method of keeping a planted aquarium. More pics attached! There’s a pic of the frogbit when I put it in a week ago, and one of today to show it’s growth. I am also getting some Rotala indica and Hemianthus micranthemoides tomorrow to finish off the planting. And maybe some bucephalandra too. Heck I’m hooked on this planted aquascape stuff more than my nano reefs I used to have!


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## KingTheodin (Oct 21, 2019)

More pics


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Beautiful Betta! He deserves a healthy home, and it looks like he's got it.

Your thread and the pictures of your tank's quick turn-around is encouraging to me and others. It shows what perseverance and a little more oxygen provided to soils can accomplish.


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

Nice turnaround! I am happy it got better


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## KingTheodin (Oct 21, 2019)

Well the tank is doing great, sagittaria is shooting out runners and doing great, Ludwigia is starting to grow about an inch out of the water, all the plants and shrimp are great. One thing is the tannins are out of control, water is extremely brown a day or two after a water change, idk if it’s the drift wood or the soil doing it. It’s not a big issue but from what I understand bettas love black water tanks and doesn’t tannins promote breeding? My betta has always had some sort of bubble nest but since the tank has gone black water status, he’s been frantically keeping up a major bubble nest and he’s become extremely aggressive. I’ve never seen a betta lose his s#%t over a snail on the glass, or my little bumblebee catfish. I’ve seen bettas be aggressive towards other males but never another species. He’s gotten in several quarrels with the catfish and the cat tore the bettas fins. It’s like the betta has rabies.....he’s constantly pissed off and building the bubble nest. I did probably a 50% water change just now to dilute the tannins and it’s much clearer so hopefully it’ll help chill the betta out?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Fish have personalities.


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## KingTheodin (Oct 21, 2019)

Update on the 5 gallon. It’s doing fantastic!


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## zahtar (Sep 29, 2019)

nice! I like those colors!

Good thing that the betta and the shrimp can coexist peacefully!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I looked back at where you started and what an improvement! Great job!


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## bertha (Sep 19, 2018)

Loving this thread, I think this is a very interesting discussion


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