# ADA + Dennerle



## Radek (Mar 15, 2009)

Hi ,

I am a little confused .
I want to use ADA fertilisers , and I don't know how will ADA Brighty Step 1 , 2 , 3 work with Dennerle substrate .

Substrate is formed with:
Dennerle Deponit Mix Professional ~3 cm
Dennerle Quarz Gravel (~1-2 mm) ~ 8 cm : 
* Hardener-free
* CO2-proof
* Light-resistant
* Water-neutral
* Grain size 1-2 mm

What do you think about this combination? I know ADA recomends using with ADA substrate , how will react with a neautral substrate? 
Please post suggestions and tips.

Thank you!


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

ADA fertilizers are expensive; why not go DIY? I can toss together the same nutrients as a 500ml bottle of green brighty "lights" for about $1-$1.50. You don't even want to know how little steps 1-3 contain.

If you want the entire breakdown, thebarrreport.com has brighty light, shade, 1-3 and brighty K broken down as a chemical analysis for something like an $8 trial subscription that includes a pile of other research. It's not my work, and it's not open domain, so I wouldn't feel right giving it away.

The real secret to what makes ADA systems work is ADA aquasoil. Right now it and Oliver Knott's substrate are the only commercial substrates that I know of with biovailable nutrients. Things like fluorite and eco-complete have a little iron, but that's about it. 

So, in short, buy aquasoil instead if you can and learn DIY fertilization, even if you just dose by dry volume.

-Philosophos


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## Radek (Mar 15, 2009)

I thought only in combination will work fine . 

Ok , it's expensive , but in my country i can't procure chemical substances that easy . I didn't find about the brighty light, shade, 1-3 and brighty K broken down as a chemical analysis . 
Is there any topic about DIY fertiliser components?


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

My advice would be to find another brand. I misread the report; ADA fertilizers use about 1/10th the concentration I do for my private batches. That's 15 cents worth of fertilizer, and maybe $2 US for the fancy bottle, to which they are charging $20 for.

The analysis can be found here if you have a trial/lifetime membership:
http://www.barrreport.com/barr-report-newsletter/4492-ada-liquid-fertilizer-analysis-2.html#post26932

There are many topics about DIY fertilizers on barrreport.com and other sites, depending on the method that you want to use. I happen to mix my own liquid fertilizers from individual compounds, so I know a decent amount about the subject.

If you can tell me what the restrictions are in your country, and what compounds you can get, I might be able to find a way to work with what you have. What country are you from?

-Philosophos


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## Radek (Mar 15, 2009)

So ,

I'm from Romania , and we can't usually buy chemical substances as a person , only as a company with autorization . 
I don't know what compounds are needed in the DIY fertiliser , maybe i can manage to find some of them .


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## bradac56 (May 9, 2007)

You should be able to find them easily enough check with any orchard or landscaping supply store or if not them find a farm Ag store that sells planting seeds they should have everything but it will be in 50lb bags (one would last you a decade)

What you would need is:

KN03
KH2P04
Trace (CSM+B)

Optional: Iron Chelate 10%

- Brad


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Radek said:


> So ,
> 
> I'm from Romania , and we can't usually buy chemical substances as a person , only as a company with autorization .
> I don't know what compounds are needed in the DIY fertiliser , maybe i can manage to find some of them .


Would there be a small business around that would mix the fertilizers for you, based on your own needs? I imagine farmers need to get their fertilizers some how.

-Philosophos


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## mumushummus (Sep 10, 2009)

Philosophos said:


> Would there be a small business around that would mix the fertilizers for you, based on your own needs? I imagine farmers need to get their fertilizers some how.
> 
> -Philosophos


:wave:op2:yeah right! i will wait for that a 100 years!


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

So then I guess that leaves commercial fertilizers.

Can you get TPN+ or the Seachem line of fertilizers? Depending on what's available, I could work out a dosing method that will give more appropriate nutrient levels than ADA fertilizers at a better price.

-Philosophos


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## Radek (Mar 15, 2009)

Oh , i understood now what is going out here .
So I need to buy a Trace solution for the trace microelements , buy chelated Fe , and mix up everything with the ADA Results and make a very efficient and very cheap fertilizer . 

I saw K+ on the ADA result , from wich chemical substance i can find it . Thank you!


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## armedbiggiet (May 6, 2006)

Potassium


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## armedbiggiet (May 6, 2006)

Wow, just go through some of the Tom Barr's writing and this guy really hate ADA or just hate business man who turn hobby for money. I like ADA products, think it is clean and easy to use with a result that I can see and only required to use very very little at a time. ADA ECA and ADA Green gain are some very nice products too. I almost agreet with him untill I saw $79 dollars to be a lifetime member... though he could support the website with less money. Back to your topic, ADA + Dennerle, I know some people done it and they like it other wise I would not recommand people mix brands but you had already use Dennerle why not use something that match. Good luck with what ever you end up using in Romania and don't forget to post some pictures of your tank later!!


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## bradac56 (May 9, 2007)

I would go back and actually read anything Tom Barr writes about before forming a opinion since your not even close armedbiggiet. As a matter of fact most of Tom's tanks have ADA substrates in them. Like most of us Tom doesn't use the ADA liquid ferts because of the price since diy dry ferts are just as good but the substrates are the best on the market.

- Brad


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Actually ADA ferts (at least brighty lights, shade and steps 1-3) contain pathetic amounts of nutrients, and the dosing is lean as well.

The substrate is great except when it fogs or stains the water. Apparently it causes problems in larger tanks no matter what, simply because of the increased volume of water. It's kind of like laying more semi-transparent slides on top of each other and then looking through it.

Tom and Greg run barrreport.com, and dont allow any commercial advertisement in. You don't need to pay $80 either; trial membership is something like $12.95 and gives you full access to EVERYTHING for a year.

Personally I have no problem with people making money off the hobby. I believe in providing a nice tank from top to bottom for anyone willing to pay. What I disagree with is allowing commercial endeavor to polute the knowledge base of the hobby. I can't stand seeing some company rep giving answers on forums to simply hoc their products. I'm not accusing anyone here, but I've seen it happen within the hobby. When it happens, it compromises the integrity of a site as a place of learning.

-Philosophos


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## armedbiggiet (May 6, 2006)

bradac56 said:


> I would go back and actually read anything Tom Barr writes about before forming a opinion since your not even close armedbiggiet. As a matter of fact most of Tom's tanks have ADA substrates in them. Like most of us Tom doesn't use the ADA liquid ferts because of the price since diy dry ferts are just as good but the substrates are the best on the market.
> 
> - Brad


Opinion?? I hardly have any opinion in it. I just answer the man's answer based on one of my friend's experience with ADA + Dennerle. It is all up to the person who started thread.


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## bradac56 (May 9, 2007)

armedbiggiet said:


> Opinion?? I hardly have any opinion in it. I just answer the man's answer based on one of my friend's experience with ADA + Dennerle. It is all up to the person who started thread.


No you said "Wow, just go through some of the Tom Barr's writing and this guy really hate ADA or just hate business man who turn hobby for money" that was your personal opinion of Tom Barr which you readily admit to not have any experience with him or ADA products.

- Brad


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

I remember Tom saying something about not coming to this site much anymore, so I'll reply based on my knowledge. Otherwise I'd just sit around and wait for him to poke his head in.

I've spent a while getting to know Tom in terms of his views in the hobby. He makes most of the fertilizers sold on aquariumfertilizers.com from what I understand. He and Greg Watson have an interest in business ethics, not an interest in preventing people from making a living. Part of those ethics is not skinning people alive with 1000% markups, or using trade secrets to prevent people from attempting to do what you've done to the best of their own ability. At least that's what I've gathered, and I agree with it.

Don't worry too much about Radek; he's got the analysis for his ADA fertilizers, I've helped him with reproducing them some in private, and he's gotten some help elsewhere. 

I'm sure if he wants his thread back, he'll say something.

-Philosophos


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## Radek (Mar 15, 2009)

Hi,

I saw that while I was gone it was a little activity here.

So , 

I read about ADA sistem and I want to say that the essence of their fertilisation scheme is ADA substrate + ADA fertilisers .
Since I have a Dennerle substrate , wich has nothing in common with ADA , i will prepare my fertilisers adapted to my substrate . 

Thanks for the answers , i don't have much time now because i am setting up my tank and next week i will start it . 

Take care,
Radek


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