# Water quality issue



## ColdServings (Oct 8, 2007)

I've got a 29 gal planted tank with goldfish. It's been cycled since late September but recently nitrites have reappeared in the water and I've been trying to get those back under control (as in "gone").

Recent test results:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0.5 ppm
Nitrate: 20 ppm
pH: 7.8
dKH: 5
dGH: 11

The tank normally has two Comet goldfish--one 3", one 4.5"
Substrate: a single layer of smooth pepples about 1/2" across on average.
Plants:
Several bacopa
Several Ludwigia Repens
1 Amazon sword about 12" tall
2 stalks of bamboo about 14" tall
(all bought at LFS).

I had several shoots of anacharis as well but they all died off about the same time as the nitrites started climbing and I removed their remains.

The plants are all planted in small (2 oz) glass jars filled with a planting substrate purchased at the LFS.

Until recently, I had a good bit of green dust algae growing on the glass and on all the hard surfaces in the aquarium. It appears to have started dying off about the same time as the nitrites started rising.

My best guess is that the algae die-off started decomposing and overloaded the bio-filter. However, there are problems with that theory, chiefly in that I've vacuumed the gravel fairly thoroughly and have been doing 50% water changes every day or two since nitrites started climbing and yet they remain.

Suggestions on anything else to try?

Incidentally, the larger of the two comets has gotten sick (weakened by the nitrites?) and has been moved to isolation for treatment so there's currently only the one in the main tank.


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## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

Before you try to solve the problem, you gotta figure out what started it in the first place.
Did you recently uproot alot of plants? Are you keeping up with your water changes? 50% weekly is recomended with Goldfish due to High Bioloads that could cause a NitrIte Spike...
How long is your lighting on for a day ?


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## ColdServings (Oct 8, 2007)

Before the nitrite spike, I was doing 50% water changes weekly. Now, of course, I'm doing them every day or two.

I've got two lights: a dual T5 fluorescent (total 36 watts) and a CF (65 watt) both by Coralife with 10,000K bulbs. They run 8-10 hours a day (sometimes a bit more if I work late).

The only plant uprooting I have done was the anacharis after it died, which only occurred after the nitrite problems started.

Other recent changes:

I started fertilizing with Flourish products, Nitrogen, Phosporus, Potassium, Trace, and Excel. Dosage per the recommendations on the bottles.

I added filter second cartridges (not replaced existing cartridges, but added additional) to the HOB filters.

I cut some filter foam to make prefilters for the HOB filter uptakes (mainly to catch leaves that the fish pull off the plants here where they're easy to clean and don't clog the impellers.

I "recharged" the DIY yeast CO2 unit (which doesn't seem to be working anyway--at least per the pH and dKH readings).

These changes were all done in steps in the reverse order of which I just listed them.


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## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

Hmmm intresting...
If its true what your telling us then theres no reason for the sudden NitrIte spike.
For now what I would do is get some Fluval Biomax rings and place some in your filter
also place some in a Net bag and let it sit on the substrate. Its supose to reduce
NitrIte and Ammonia:

http://www.petco.com/product/102413/Hagen-Fluval-Biomax-Filter-Media.aspx

Also I would keep your lighting on a timer set for 8 or 9 hours daily, try to
balance things out or algae will be the newest addition added to your tank...


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## tropism (Jul 21, 2006)

I have a couple questions for you too...

First, let's rule out the easiest possibilities. Have you checked to see what your test kit says with your tap water? Tap water can contain nitrites, or your test kit could just be off. 

When you do your water changes are you using something that removes chlorines and chloramines? If you aren't, then it's possible that you're killing off some of the good bacteria each time you do a water change. If you rinse the filter inserts, do it with aquarium water and not tap water for the same reason.

If you have chloramines in the water, some dechlorinators can create ammonia as a result of breaking down the chloramine. So even if you are using a dechlorinator, you could be giving your system extra ammonia each time you do a water change. Something like Seachem's Prime or Kordon's AmQuel+ will take care of chlorines, chloramines, ammonia, and even detoxify nitrite & nitrate. (They may cause a false reading on certain types of ammonia test kits, even thought they've gotten rid of the ammonia.) I'm not sure what their effects are on the amount of nitrogen available to plants (possibly no effect).

Did the spike happen before or after you started adding the Seachem Nitrogen? I'd stop using that until the nitrites are back to 0. Plants prefer ammonia/ammonium and nitrite to nitrate, so the plants are probably not using much (if any) of the nitrate in it at this point, and you don't really need to be adding ammonium either, since you want the plants to take up as much nitrite as possible.


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## tropism (Jul 21, 2006)

The fluval biomax rings will probably not be of much help if you've already got sufficient area for bacteria colonies in your current filter -- they're just used as something for bacteria to colonize (which would take a while too).


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## ColdServings (Oct 8, 2007)

I use Amquel Plus to treat my water--which goes into a 33 gal rubbermaid garbage can to "age" for several days before use.

I haven't tested the tap water, however, the Betta tank tests zero for nitrites. (Betta tank is 1 gal with Java fern, Java moss, and Bacopa, DIY yeast, and a small air-driven foam filter.)

Amquel Plus claims to do its detoxing while still leaving both the ammonia and nitrite available to feed beneficial bacteria. Don't know about how available it is for other plants.

I'm not sure about the exact timing of the appearance of nitrite and the introduction of the ferts. I started fertilizing mid-week and, at that time, was testing just before weekly water changes. (Bad move on my part--should have tested immediately on introducing any change.)


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## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

tropism said:


> The fluval biomax rings will probably not be of much help if you've already got sufficient area for bacteria colonies in your current filter -- they're just used as something for bacteria to colonize (which would take a while too).


Well its obvious if a NitrIte spike has hit then the colony has been disturbed or cut
short in some way (Too many water changes in short periods, Siphening the substrate too much , changing the substrate, etc.). Adding Bio Fluval rings incourage the colony to double daily and
would get strong enough to convert those NitrItes into NitrAtes. I have never heard of
Seachem Products causing NitrIte spikes, but then again I dont use them.

Also explain how you cut the filter foam? Was it old or new ?


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## ColdServings (Oct 8, 2007)

The foam I used was a foam insert meant for some kind of aquaclear filter, bought new to adapt to this purpose. The original piece was about 4" square on the end and about 12" long (at a guess). I cut a 4" cube from the end using a stainless steel knife, then cut along a diagonal to make two triangular pieces. I then cut a slit in one of the triangular ends several inches deep to slip over the ends of the uptake tubes.


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## ColdServings (Oct 8, 2007)

One thing that may have gotten lost from my first post is my own hypothesis: algae die-off causing excessive bioload. Before the nitrite spike, I had green algae all over everything. For example you couldn't see the color of the gravel for the green fuzz that coated them. Now you can.


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## tropism (Jul 21, 2006)

Well.... we've ruled out a lot of stuff, and honestly, I don't have a better hypothesis than yours about the algae. A large algae die-off certainly could do it, but I was thinking the same thing that you were. Why is it still high after doing multiple 50% water changes? 

Is the dead algae still there and is more decaying? Just about the only other thing I can think of -- have you been rinsing the filter media too often, or rinsing it with tap water?

Personally, I'd just dose the tank with AmQuel+ (one dose, directly into the tank), discontinue the Seachem Nitrogen for the time being, wait a day or two, and test it again. I wouldn't start the Seachem Nitrogen again until the nitrites are down to 0 and you're reasonably sure that they aren't rising again.

-
And to Mr. Fish -- I've never heard of Seachem products causing nitrite spikes either, but the plants obviously have a lot of nitrogen available to them at the moment. Seachem Nitrogen has ammonium and nitrates. I don't know for sure if ammonium is turned into nitrite the same way ammonia is, but in any event, there's no need to add it at this time -- he should let the plants take up as much nitrite as they can.


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## ColdServings (Oct 8, 2007)

That sounds like a reasonable plan.

One thing I was wondering was maybe about the plants in the tank. One plant I had bought early in getting this tank set up was Kyoto grass, which I then found out wasn't actually aquatic and would soon die, adding to the bioload. The place I bought the bamboo is usually a bit more reliable than that, but I'm kind of wondering if maybe I'm not faced with the same situation there.

Is bamboo actually useable as an aquatic plant?


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## tropism (Jul 21, 2006)

Is that the same bamboo (technically, it's not even a true bamboo) that is sold in vases as "lucky bamboo"? I had assumed (wrongly I guess) that it was in the tank, but had the top part sticking out of the water. I could be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure that it would not survive completely submerged, although it can grow with only the bottom in the tank. I don't think that it would be deteriorating THAT fast though, and the nitrite should not be (at least entirely) due to having that in there. It could be some plant that I'm not familiar with, but my guess would be that it's not a true aquatic. Unfortunately our LFSs also routinely sell non-aquatics that slowly die over a month or two.

After re-reading your first post on this thread I have another question/suggestion -- is your sword plant also planted in a 2 oz. jar like the others? Sword plants can create huge root systems, and a 2oz. jar will not be enough space. It might also help the situation if you added some more healthy (i.e. not dying or covered in algae) fast growing plants. If you can find it at your LFS, hornwort would be a good choice for a goldfish tank. The only place I ever see it locally is at the big-name chain pet stores though, and it's almost always covered in algae there.


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## ColdServings (Oct 8, 2007)

I can't say for sure whether it's the same thing, but it sure looks like the pictures I've been able to find of "lucky bamboo" on the net.

In the store, it was completely immersed in the tank and that's how I've had it at home.

Next water change (probably tonight) I'll pull this bamboo and replant the sword directly into the substrate. Don't know if either of these will have any effect on the nitrite issue but I figure they're good to do anyway.


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## ColdServings (Oct 8, 2007)

And I did just that.

Latest test readings, BTW:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0.5 ppm
Nitrate: 5 ppm
pH: 8
dKH: 6
dGH: 13

I also refilled one of the bottles of the DIY CO2 system, but I'm really dubious as to whether they are doing anything.


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## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

What do you mean you dont know if your Co2 is doing anything? You cant see it diffusing
into the water ?


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## ColdServings (Oct 8, 2007)

I just described that issue in detail over in the DIY forum.

Upshot is that an estimate of dissolved CO2 based on pH and dKH is the same whether the CO2 unit is hooked up or not (after waiting a couple of hours at least either way) and I don't see any bubbles from the glass diffuser.

New tubing and plastic between the gas separator/bubble counter (where I know I'm getting gas) and the tank has not changed that.


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## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

Responded to your thread..


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