# keeping fert mix fresh



## kenneth_kpe (Oct 1, 2005)

I tried searching for keywords but I am not successfull... I dont really know if this has been discussed before and under what name... so sorry if this is a repost..

I have been mixing up fert mixes for a long time now and notice that after a while (3++ days) sediments start to settle (especially for the pps pro mix for macros). 

I have the following questions.
1) how to I keep the mix err mixed (i want to dose via a push down bottle, similar to the ADA one, why ? convenience)
2) how do I prevent mold from growing with the CSM mix (this one i found a few articles)

My theories that I have not tried out yet.
1) Maybe I can dillute the mixture more so that the water isn't too saturated for the macros?
2) I can mix something like HCL with the trace mix (csm) to stop the mold. (correcT?)


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Methyl blue works for anti fungus.


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## kenneth_kpe (Oct 1, 2005)

is there a rec. amount of meth blue per mix of ferts ? lets say how much meth blue for a 100ml mix of CSM+B with distilled water


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Some people recommend adding a bit of muriatic acid to the mix, very little, just enough to get the pH below 7.


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## kenneth_kpe (Oct 1, 2005)

cool, il try this out, I have muriatic acid anyway,I use it to clean my glass pipes heheheh.

anybody got ideas on the trace mixes ? you know keeping em mixed ?


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Hi
One drop of any antifungal aquarium product does work, and for the macro sediment use distilled or RO water and if you still have some sediment then don't worry about it, it's just some impurities in the fertilizer salt, no harm. 



Thank you
Edward


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## kenneth_kpe (Oct 1, 2005)

I use distilled water with my fert mix as advised by your PPS system. hehe

good then ! I was worried that the sediments were actual nutrients that started to settle and it would affect my dosing. good good. THANKS!


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## ⊕⊕⊕ (Jan 2, 2008)

I use RO/DI when mixing and I have never noticed sediment settling on the bottom of the bottle.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

I mix up a weeks worth at a time using tap water (fairly soft, but not RO/DI), then dose by hand daily and shake the bottle as I use it. Sometimes there is a little bit of stuff in the bottom, other times the mixed liquid is a bit cloudy. I have not seen fungus, though. I am simply thinking it is not all dissolved, and shaking it up before I use it cures that problem.


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## kenneth_kpe (Oct 1, 2005)

actually what worries me is i am going to try dosing using those squirt bottles, and merely shaking the bottle wont do because there would be liquid inside the err straw for the squirting part of the bottle.


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## kekon (Aug 1, 2005)

Sediment is produced often due to too high concentration of chemical compounds in the solution. I had the same problem when too high iron chelator was mixed with distilled water. So one way to avoid precipitating is not to make too high concentration of used coumpounds. The other way (but only for micro ferts) is to add some HCl acid to lower the overall pH to say, 4..5. TMG fert for example has pH of about 3..4 which probably also works against mold. I also add Vitamin C in the form of pure ascorbic acid (C6H8O6) which works as anti-oxodizing agent. It also preserves the solution form changing its color in a long term. The most difficult issue is to protect micro fert against mold. I got to know that methyl paraben is used for this purpose but i couldn't get one. You say about methyl blue but i don't know this coumpound at all... I have Sodium Benzoate (C6H5COONa) which is used in food against bacteria and mold. I was told it could be used in the micro fertilizer but i'm hesistating to add it. I'm afraid it might harm plants and fish (maybe i'm wrong but i;m not a chemist...)


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## JamesC (Jul 26, 2005)

I've messing around with additives to my solutions for a little while now after I got interested in doing an 'all in one' solution to make life easy. I add Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Sulphate, Magnesium Sulphate and powdered traces together with 500ml of RO water. Then to this I add E300 Ascorbic Acid and E202 Potassium Sorbate. These two together I've found work very well to prevent chelator breakdown and mold from developing. I don't even keep it in the fridge but I do keep it in the dark. So far the solution has remained clear for several weeks whilst I've been dosing it.

Interestingly the solution turns green.

James


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## kenneth_kpe (Oct 1, 2005)

oh my !! i have to absorb this at home and not when I am killing time here in the office ! I will try this one out .. with regards to the ascorbic acid? what does this do ? can I use my off the shelf vitamin C ? it is ascorbic acid after all hahah

where in pete's sake do you get these chemicals ?!?!?! in small quantities ?!?!?!


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

JamesC said:


> I've messing around with additives to my solutions for a little while now after I got interested in doing an 'all in one' solution to make life easy. I add Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Sulphate, Magnesium Sulphate and powdered traces together with 500ml of RO water. Then to this I add E300 Ascorbic Acid and E202 Potassium Sorbate. These two together I've found work very well to prevent chelator breakdown and mold from developing. I don't even keep it in the fridge but I do keep it in the dark. So far the solution has remained clear for several weeks whilst I've been dosing it.
> 
> Interestingly the solution turns green.
> 
> James


It has always been the gospel that mixing a trace mixture containing iron in a solution with phosphate in it will result in the iron being precipitated out. Do you see any evidence of that happening, or is that old gospel, like so many others, untrue?


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## JamesC (Jul 26, 2005)

hoppycalif said:


> It has always been the gospel that mixing a trace mixture containing iron in a solution with phosphate in it will result in the iron being precipitated out. Do you see any evidence of that happening, or is that old gospel, like so many others, untrue?


No it's not untrue. Often mixing traces and phosphate in solution will create an iron phosphate precipitate. This is because the iron chelate starts to break down when in solution so releasing the iron. If we can keep the iron complexed then it should be safe from any reaction with the phosphate. This is done by keeping the solution acidic, preferably at pH 6 or below. This is where ascorbic acid comes in as it keeps the solution acidic and also has the benefit of being an anti-oxidant. Potassium sorbate is a mold and yeast inhibitor that is used in the food and drink industry and is easy for me to obtain which is why I chose it. It also works most efficiently at a pH of about 6 so is suited to work with the ascorbic acid. There are other mold inhibitors that could be used and I know of someone who uses methyl parabens.

Bright light also breaks down chelators which is why it is recommended to keep the solutions away from direct light.

I not sure how long this all in one solution will last but so far it seems to last a month with no probs. Saying that I have no real way of telling what is happeneing in the bottle. All I know is that the solution remains clear and bright with no settling out. Plants grow and pearl just like before so I'm presuming that all is well.

James

James


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## kenneth_kpe (Oct 1, 2005)

hmmm il try to source small quantities of this but im no chemist ! with regards to just plainly keeping the fertilizer mixture fresh and mixed, 

with regards to the ascorbic acid and pottasium sorbate how much do you add ? You did this with an all in one solution right ? Im assuming tt should work better with a pps pro style mix (2 bottles, 1 for micro and the other for macro ferts)


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## JamesC (Jul 26, 2005)

For every 500ml solution I add 0.4g Ascobic Acid and 0.2g Potassium Sorbate. These figures TBH are a bit of guess work but I added enough Ascorbic Acid to get the pH down to 6.

Yeah, best used with a PPS or PMDD style dosing. Not much point with EI as macro's and trace's are dosed on alternate days. I made the solution weaker than normal to possibly help prevent any reactions taking place. It's all documented on my website if you're interested.

Truth be told I'm not 100% sure what I'm doing. I just like experimenting with different ideas and I have easy access to a lot of chemicals. Main reason I made an all in one solution is that I'm lazy and wanted an easy way to dose my tanks first thing in the morning. I use an old Tropica bottle and just add the right amount to each tank in a matter of seconds.

James


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## kenneth_kpe (Oct 1, 2005)

yeah ! amen, im getting lazy too, thats why i want to keep using those squirt bottles because its as easy as, 1 squirt, 2 squirt 
lets go

nice reading by the way


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