# 450Gallon Lighting Suggestions?



## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Anyone have any suggestions how to adaquetly light a 450 gallon freshwater planted tank? The dimensions of the tank I'll be having made for me will measure 72"Lx72"Wx20"H.

Thanks for your help guys and gals!
Don


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## kakkoii (Jan 18, 2008)

I would say 4 150W metal halides would do the trick.


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## Jessie (Apr 23, 2007)

Knowing Don, he'll just lasso the sun and pull it around to his liking. 

HCI Pendants.

Are you building a hood?


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

HCI Pendants? HQI, maybe, Jess? I am not familar with HCI.......you got me. What are HCI?

I am not advocating "over-doing" the light!  I just want to "do it right" this time. Because of that, I am uncertain if I am going to get a hood built or not. I think "no," because it would weigh a TON by itself, much less having lights attached to it as well. Also, if the "right" light is going to be MH's, then it would likely get too hot under the hood.

So, I believe that is two votes for MH pendants? Quit making fun of my lighting Jess!  "The Sun".........

Also, I have buying supplies for this new tank.....and....I bought some Aquasoil. So, I thought I would come clean.


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## puttyman70 (Aug 7, 2007)

A third vote for HQI MH. 4 Solar 1 would look sweet! Not sure about the pendants though. I looked into those and it seemed that most said they lit a much smaller area than a regular rectangular reflector. When I say pendant I'm thinking you mean something like the coralife round one?

BTW how far out are some pictures of the set up of this monster? I can't wait. Is it going to be rimless and/or open topped? If I had a monkey he would be drooling in your new tank. Maybe it might help start the cycling process. LOL.


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Oh, Putty.........pics are very far away. Targeting August or September to begin. Right after the move to either East Coast or Chicago area.

I feel this will be open top so I can get some hardscape sticking out. If it is closed and only 20" in height, it will look ridiculous due to the relative massive length and width...

How much are the HQI MH Solars?


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## kakkoii (Jan 18, 2008)

I think it should be open top.


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Ok, so two votes for "open top," three votes for MH HQI of some sort........

Any other ideas? What "K" should the HQI bulbs be to maximize plant growth and look nice?

How much is this going to run me? Or, is there a better way? Keep the suggestions coming!!


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## kakkoii (Jan 18, 2008)

well the k rating really depends on your color taste. for a tank like this I would aim for a bright yellow light. It should run no more than $300. ebay?


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Giesemann Midday T5HO from reefgeek.com. You will need 10 or 12 of the 80 watt tubes for a tank that will look amazingly bright. You will use all the bulbs for only about 4 hours a day. The rest of the time only half of the bulbs will be on. Using all 10 or 12 bulbs is a huge blast of light and your tank will be extremely high speed. You will break your back maintaining it in good shape day in day out for a long time.

Each halide iluminates an area of about 2 x 2 ft. So you will need 9 halides. 6 will do, but you will have uneven coverage. The only halide bulb made for aquatic plants is sold by ADA and is about $100 each.

With the T5s you will light the 6 x 6 ft. tank more evenly, with light that is specifically designed for freshwater plants. The bulbs last for 2 years. Heat will not be an issue with the T5s. The canopy can be super low profile (only 2 inches tall if you wish so) and you can hang it above the tank or place it on top of it, your choice.

What really matters is plant health and growth. The Giesemann T5HO performs as good if not better than halides.

--Nikolay


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Ok, ok.!!!!  I love having "options" !

HOT5's vs HQI MH....hmmm.......opinions?
BTW--thank you to everyone who has posted so far! You have all been very helpful, and I really do appreciate it! 

OK.....off to check out reefgeek!


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## doug105 (Oct 28, 2005)

Here is a set-up of a similar sized tank(although it is a reef). It has the lighting
system on rails so it can easily be moved aside for tank maintenance.

http://www.oregonreef.com/sub_maintenance.htm

Check it out,

Doug N


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

I'd probaby go with four or five 250W HQI's that you could run for 4-5 hours per day with some other source of supplemental light for general viewing (~0.5 wpg). Niko is right about a limitted selection in the usual "planted tank" spectrum, but you could use a mix of 10,000k bulbs (easy to find) and 6,500k bulbs (not too hard to find).

If money is no object I'd use one 150W HQI MH fixture over each 2'x2' section of tank (totalling 9) with ADA 8,000k bulbs. You could run fewer bulbs during morning & evening periods or use T-5 fixutres for supplemental lighting.

I do assume that you'll have some method for reaching the substrate in the center part of the tank - gorilla arms maybe?


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## puttyman70 (Aug 7, 2007)

guaiac_boy said:


> I do assume that you'll have some method for reaching the substrate in the center part of the tank - gorilla arms maybe?


Maybe not a gorilla, but he always has his monkey.


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Guaiac--what do you think about Niko's suggestion of the HO T5's? 250watt HQI's sound impressive, but very pricey.

It isn't that I mind spending the money, IF THIS IS DONE RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!! I can afford ONE lighting system, and would hate to put 12 HO T5's to light the tank, only to figure out that it wasn't the right choice; the same applies to HQI MH's of any wattage. It is one thing to spend $2000 on lights, and entirely different to spend $4000 because the first set didn't work. I would like to avoid expensive mistakes. The other scenario: my wife will grumble about me buying a new tank and lights; the mistake of having to buy TWO different lighting systems will likely cost me my life. I'm not joking.

Putty and Guaiac-- I'm pretty tall, and can easily plant my current 100 gallon in the back; it will also help that the planned pedestal is going to be around 20-24" high, and the tank is only going to be 20" high. Also, there will be access to the tank on either side and the front, so my 6'4" frame with a 7 foot wingspan should be able to amply reach any part of the tank.

Did I mention that I was a former State Finalist four years in a row in Swimming?


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

Donald,

You could always get one of those bar that people use for exercise. Like the one Rocky used when he did the crunches hanging upside down when he was training in Russia. Should work equally well for upside down scaping. 


Niko,

I know Donald's proposed tank is only 20" deep, do you know if the T5HO are as effective in a deeper tank like 3.0" or would you go to 250MH for that depth. My apologies to the 6'4" Donald.


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

YOU MAKE THE DONALD ANGER!! 

That, House, is a depth for MH's if you have any hope of growing foreground plants. I don't think even HO T5's would be intense enough to penatrate that sort of depth; MAYBE, just maybe, VHO's would work.....but I have my doubts about that even.

Now, back to my problems!


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

It's not the depth of the tank that's important, it's the distance from the light source - maybe it's the same thing in many situations, but sometimes it isn't.
The substrate in a 36" deep tank is very far from the bulbs. Light does funny things with reflectors and at the air-water and water-glass interface (refraction/reflection) but in general, if you double the distance you get 1/4 the light intensity. Ever wonder why plants show great red coloration right under the bulbs?

Donald,

I think T-5's would be fine. It's just that MH's are particularly well suited to large aquariums. The shimmer effect is fabulous, but some people don't seem to think it's that important. If you're an Amano-worshiper, he uses 150W MH's for most of his larger tanks, even the really big ones. Over time, you'll change MH bulbs more frequently (maybe once every 12-18 months vs. every 24-30 months), but you'll have fewer bulbs to change. Keeping up with a couple dozen T-5 bulbs can be a PITA. Probably I'd only replace them at burnout.

If it were me, I'd go with T-5's if you want a canopy and suspended/pendant MH's if you want an open top. There isn't really any way to mount a dozen big T-5 fixtures over an open tank without it becoming an eyesore.

If you go with a custom tank & stand, I'm guessing you'll be looking at $12k - $20k for the entire project. Assuming you're willing to shell out that sort of dough, get what works best, regardless of price.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

One thing I've found is that not all 10k MH bulbs are created equal. I have a *Current USA Outer Orbits 72" 250Watt w/T5 *over a 72" tank and I do not like the color. It's very yellowish despite having all 10k bulbs. So Donald I personally can not recommend Current. Has anyone else found this with Current MH fixtures?


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

I have to say Im very happy with my Tek T5 on my 30" deep tank.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

orlando said:


> I have to say Im very happy with my Tek T5 on my 30" deep tank.


What are you growing at the substrate level?


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Yes, please describe!


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

I started to believe in the Giesemann T5HO bulbs when they made my crypts pearl. Intensely. As in "streams of bubbles all over the place". 480 watts over a 6 x 2 x 2 ft. tank. Took about 2 minutes. Who here has seen crypts pearl?

The bulbs were 2 inches above the water surface. The light was way too much. I ended up using only 160 of these 480 watts and things were normal. 

Hanging the T5 say about a foot above the tank will result in quite a bit of light spill. The reflectors that reefgeek sells clip on the bulb itself and you can spin the reflector around the bulb - meaning you can direct the light so more of it goes in the tank instead of around it. But glare in the observer's eyes will be a problem anyway.

If I did this light setup "once and for all" I'd do MH combined with T5. Another very appropriate option for this size tank is to have a mound aquascape so the sides of the tank don't have to be lit very well. In this case four 150 watt MH will do great.

With a tank this size it would be insane to plant fast growing carpet plants or even have too many stem plants. That would be fun for a short time. A tank this size should be aquascaped with the maintenance in mind.

--Nikolay


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

You bring up a good point, Niko. The idea is too not become "overwhelmed" by the tank maintenance. I think that if I play a bit with the pendant height and photoperiod, I could get good growth without it becoming an excessive nightmare. Time will tell; this would be the ONLY tank that I would keep, so I could concentrate on this. I don't know. It could either be really awesome, or the worse thing EVER!! I think that it'll be fine.


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## Jessie (Apr 23, 2007)

DonaldmBoyer said:


> HCI Pendants? HQI, maybe, Jess? I am not familar with HCI.......you got me. What are HCI?


Yea. SHHHHADUP. That's a dar-dar typo.


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

I think that I have decided on using two 1000 watt HQI MH's. I would do the HO T5's/VHO's, but that would be pretty tricky to do "pendulum" style. Having a hood to connect those bulbs to is enticing, though I believe that the hood for a 450gallon would already be very heavy for me to lift much less having twelve bulbs with reflectors and wiring as well....YIKES! Maybe I could handle that type of weight while I'm still young, but when I'm old and weak.......that might be a bit too much.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

2000 watts of MH lighting over a 450g tank? 4.4 wpg?????

You're absolutely crazy. I would never, ever recommend that. 1000W of MH light would be plenty - probably more than plenty. The wpg is not applicable to large volume tanks.

The area of the footprint is more important than the volume. Assume you have a regular 75g tank. Most people would agree that 3 wpg of MH lighting over that size of tank is overkill for every practical application. It has a surface area of 48"x18" = 6 square feet. 3wpg = 225 watts or 37.5 watts/square foot of footprint.

Your tank would be 72"x72" = 36 square feet. Multiply that by 37.5 and you get 1350 watts. To be practical, I'd suggest even less than that. Maximum rate of plant growth is NOT something that you want in a glass apartment of that size.

Do they make 500W MH bulbs? Those would be better. In fact four or five 250's would be best.

Also, how would you plan on lighting a square footprint with only two bulbs? You're going to be very dark at the edges and way too intense at the center where the light overlaps. You'll can compensate by raising the bulbs very high to get the footprint covered but you'll loose lots of light to spillage.

I dunno..... just my two bits.

Also, you can very easily design a canopy that will allow access without requiring total removal for maintenance. Make the thing about 16" high, mount the HQI's up near the top, design doors that swing open in the front and at each side and presto - no need to ever lift the lid. Mine hasn't been off the 180g since the day it was installed. Something to think about.

Oh, and about the "one and only" tank idea. Unless you plan on risking an entire tank worth of livestock, I'd recommend you give serious consideration to a quarantine tank. Personally, I also find it's quite useful to keep a smaller tank for "storage" of plants that are growing out or that you don't want to use for a while. Why not combine the two? Something in the neighborhood of 40g would be perfect. I'd quarantine every fish for no less than a month before introducing it into a system that large.

Again, just my two bits.

I do expect pictures of the whole setup though.


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## trag (Jan 9, 2008)

Hmmm. I would be tempted to try a combination of T5 HO and MH lights. Choosing the exact wattage and number of lights would be tricky. 

For the T5 HO, I would always choose the 48" 54W lights because that is the most common least expensive length of bulb. The number of bulbs is less obvious to me.

For the MH lights I would pick five lights. The number is obvious to me, but the wattage to pick gets iffier. I think something from 150 - 250 is probably about right.

I would put the T5 HO lights in four banks. In each bank, I would put either four or six bulbs. 

So I am suggesting five MH lights and four banks of T5HO lights. 

Because the T5 HO bulbs are 4' long, they need to go on the outside edges of a 4' square in order to avoid interfering with each other (unless you put them all side by side). So draw a 4' square in whatever scale you like. Perhaps 4" = 4'. The T5 HO banks extend outward from each 4' line toward the edge of the tank. 

Put a MH in the center of the tank, of course. Then put each of the remaining MH lights in the squares left at the corners by the T5 HO banks. But those squares are only 1' by 1' so you'd really want to put the corner MHs at the inner corners of their respective squares. That puts them very close to the corners formed by the T5 banks.

That may be hard to visualize, but it will become obvious if you start drawing it. Start with a 4 X 4 square inside a 6 X 6 square. Make four rectangles using each edge of the 4 X 4 square as the long edge of one rectangle. Those are the T5 HO banks. 

The problem with this suggestion is that there is (1' - W) from the edge of the T5 bank to the edge of the tank, where W is the width of a T5 bank. And there is 1' from the other edge of the T5 bank to the prospective 2' circle of light cast by the center MH. That could be compensated for by moving the corner MHs to the inside of the corners formed by the T5 banks, rather than the outside of those corners.

Another option would be to use six banks of T5HO lighting. Position four of the T5 banks as described above in a square. Leave the MH lights in the same place. Now put two of the T5 banks inside the original T5 square between the edges of the T5 square and the center MH. This leaves two little rectangles bounded by the inner T5 banks, the central MH and two of the outer T5 banks, which are 1' X 2' which still don't get great coverage. On the other hand, the center of these rectangles are no more than 1' from the edge of a fluorescent fixture on three sides.

Hmmmm. Or, do a 4' X 6' strip of T5 HO or plain vanilla T5 (cheaper, more energy efficient, less intense) across the middle of the tank. That leaves you with two 1' X 6' strips on two of the edges. Put one MH in each corner (only four MH in this idea) and a bank of four or six T5s in each of the two 1' X 4' strips remaining. 

If you do this, go to some place like Graybar Electric and buy your T5 bulbs in the 40 bulb case packed by GE. GE sells nice T5 bulbs in colors up to 6500K at prices in the $4 - $6 range when bought in cases of 40.


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