# DIY Co2 Generator, Hagen Bubble Ladder & Co2 reactor to use in a 1200g PLEASE HELP!



## apctt77 (Mar 15, 2009)

*DIY Co2 Generator, Hagen Bubble Ladder & Co2 reactor to use in a 1200g PLEASE HELP!*

Hey Guys

I've never done this before and have only just started researching it so if what I'm trying to do is laughable please be gentle

Everything below is to go into a 1200uk gallon low light planted fish tank

I'm thinking of making a DIY Co2 gas cylinder made from one of those 5 gallon water bottles you get in offices and filling it with the right ammount of sugar, yeast and water. (A guy on another forum said I would need 25 of these 5 gallon bottles to get enough Co2 into the 1200g tank)

OK so I'm getting way ahead of myself here but I've read about a hagen bubble ladder in which the bubbles from your Co2 gas cylinder travel up the ladder going back and forth and in doing so they spend more time in contact with the water. I cannot find it anywhere for sale in the UK but I thought maybe it would be a better idea to make a huge 4ft+ DIY version of it for the 1200g tank. (It could be in clear tubing and hidden somewhere) PLEASE SEE THE PICTURE ATTACHMENT (and no it's not a screen grab of DONKEY KONG )









What do you think?

I'm also researching DIY Co2 Reactors which chop the Co2 bubbles up inside them making more surface area available to be in contact with the water. I'd have to either build a huge version of what this guy below has done or build a few fairly big ones.









Which would be the better route to take if any, the DIY 4ft ladder, a couple of large Co2 reactors or both?

Or am I just notr going to get close with these methods for a tank this size?

Thanks in advance for your time and expertise


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

*Re: DIY Co2 Generator, Hagen Bubble Ladder & Co2 reactor to use in a 1200g PLEASE HEL*

Hi apctt77,

I did DIY CO2 for my 45 gallon when I first started. I ran two bottles 1 liter in size and changed one bottle out every three days. Your 1200 UK (about 1450 U.S.) gallon seems to be way to big for DIY CO2. Even if you were able to get enough of the 5 gallon bottles to generate enough gas, and had enough cash to buy the quantities of yeast and sugar required, the time to mix up the your solutions would be substantial. I eventually changed from DIY CO2 to pressurized because I wanted to spend more time with the aquariums and less time doing maintenance.


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

*Re: DIY Co2 Generator, Hagen Bubble Ladder & Co2 reactor to use in a 1200g PLEASE HEL*

Ummm...no offence, but you are kidding, right?

You're gonna need ALOT more than a 5gal container of sugar and yeast for such a tank.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

*Re: DIY Co2 Generator, Hagen Bubble Ladder & Co2 reactor to use in a 1200g PLEASE HEL*

Well, for such a big tank we all can recommend reactors that you can make yourself for less than $20 (US) that are small and you will never notice them.

Basically take any powerhead and put the end of the CO2 tubing under the suction. You can wedge it in the strainer, tie it with plastic zip ties or whatever. The idea is simple - the bubble gets sucked in the impeller, gets chopped up and spat out as tiny bubbles. MUCH more efficient than this "ladder" toy. MUCH more easier to check/maintain than an external reactor.

But I too digress. For a tank that big I'd think 100 times before I set everything up. Your safest bet, the approach that you will be grateful you selected, is no CO2 AND plants that do well without. Also plants that need very little (if any, in the case of mosses) light. Mosses, Bolbitis, Suswassertang, Hornworth, maybe even Java Fern. When the tank matures (6 mo. or more) you can successfully add crypts. If you think that a tank with such plants will not look too good think again.

The headaches that you can get with such a big tank are enourmous. It may end up running your daily schedule. Make sure you make the right decisions.

Moss only:
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/Img2008/View/525.jpg

Moss/bolbitis:
http://bhushandalvi.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/aga-2008-212-1.jpg

Fern/moss:
http://www.adana-usa.com/images/gallery02/7.jpg

--Nikolay


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

*Re: DIY Co2 Generator, Hagen Bubble Ladder & Co2 reactor to use in a 1200g PLEASE HEL*

Another thing - the plants that I mentioned greatly benefit from tiny amounts of CO2 in the water. Your DIY CO2- making contraption will not be enough to sustain a planted tank with plants that have high CO2 demands. But it will be enough to boost the growth and health of the plants I suggest without being forced to add more yeast reactors and without the risk of causing algae to spread.

So you can start with whatever volume of the DIY CO2 yeast reactor you want. If you find that taking care of the yeast is not a chore for you you can add another reactor. Or you can decide to save money for a pressurized system. In any case the plants that I suggested will only benefit from the low or higher CO2 you are giving them.

--Nikolay


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## mulita (Jul 31, 2007)

*Re: DIY Co2 Generator, Hagen Bubble Ladder & Co2 reactor to use in a 1200g PLEASE HEL*

As the guys already mentioned here. No offense, but a DIY CO2 for a tank this size is already out of a reasonable cost-benefit project. Even if you are able to produce sufficient Gas out of suggar, the cost involved in short term will be that high that an investment in a pressurized CO2 system will pay off for sure (I certainly believe that even in a smaller tank will do). Also, using sugar will be so demanding that you will end up giving up unless you keep this tank with very low demanding plants on it as Niko already gave examples.


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## apctt77 (Mar 15, 2009)

*Re: DIY Co2 Generator, Hagen Bubble Ladder & Co2 reactor to use in a 1200g PLEASE HEL*



niko said:


> Well, for such a big tank we all can recommend reactors that you can make yourself for less than $20 (US) that are small and you will never notice them.
> 
> Basically take any powerhead and put the end of the CO2 tubing under the suction. You can wedge it in the strainer, tie it with plastic zip ties or whatever. The idea is simple - the bubble gets sucked in the impeller, gets chopped up and spat out as tiny bubbles. MUCH more efficient than this "ladder" toy. MUCH more easier to check/maintain than an external reactor.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advise and links mate, I love the look of thoses planted tanks that's the look I was after. I've seen a planted tank where someone placed bog wood in with moss on the ends of the branches to make it look like real tree's. looked amazing.

I think I'll just stick to these kinds of plants, one thing I will ask though is how much light watts per gallon do you suggest for the plants you've suggested?

Thanks again


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## apctt77 (Mar 15, 2009)

*Re: DIY Co2 Generator, Hagen Bubble Ladder & Co2 reactor to use in a 1200g PLEASE HEL*

I've just found this tank, it's 2 ft longer than the one I have planned

Take a look
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=40732


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

*Re: DIY Co2 Generator, Hagen Bubble Ladder & Co2 reactor to use in a 1200g PLEASE HEL*

I agree with what the others have posted above. I cannot even begin to emphasize enough that you need to do a *TON* of research if you're thinking about setting up a planted tank of that size. Most importantly, you need to figure out what you want your end product to look like.

Like Niko, I'd strongly recommend lower-light species. Once you know what you're trying to accomplish you can set about looking at equipment. There is no earthly way to maintain a high-tech tank of that size without an enormous commitment of time & money. Forget about stem plants. You'd spend all of your time trimming.

A CO2 ladder is cute, but horribly inefective, except for maybe the smallest of aquariums. I wouldn't recommend DIY CO2 for anything over maybe 20 or 30 gallons. If you're talking about a 1000g plus system I'd either do pressurized CO2 or nothing.

You'll need to give careful consideration about how to achieve good filtration, flow, and mixing in a tank that size. You'll probably want to turn the water over 5-10 times per hour. Getting 5000 gallons/hour of flow requires a pretty big pump and some serious plumbing.

At that size I'd recommend MH lighting. Even if the total watts/gallon isn't that high you'll have a nice visual effect and at that scale it can be cost effective. With 250W bulbs you could get away with maybe 4-6 fixtures. That would put you at around 1 watt/gallon which would be fine for the slow growers. Even less light could still be OK for a tank that big.

I hope you have a serious quantity of disposable income. Even for a lower-tech tank, I'd guess you'll be looking at a minimum of 8-10 thousand USD setup, minimum and a thousand or two per year for upkeep.

Oh, and BTW. If you actually do go forward with a tank this big we'll hunt you down and destroy you if you don't post photos!!!!


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## TAB (Feb 7, 2009)

*Re: DIY Co2 Generator, Hagen Bubble Ladder & Co2 reactor to use in a 1200g PLEASE HEL*

250 watt halides and good reflectros will cover about a 2x2 foot square and will pentrate up to about 2' down well, after that they get dark fast. 400 watters will get you down to about 32" or so. after that things get expensive fast.


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## apctt77 (Mar 15, 2009)

*Re: DIY Co2 Generator, Hagen Bubble Ladder & Co2 reactor to use in a 1200g PLEASE HEL*



BryceM said:


> I agree with what the others have posted above. I cannot even begin to emphasize enough that you need to do a *TON* of research if you're thinking about setting up a planted tank of that size. Most importantly, you need to figure out what you want your end product to look like.
> 
> Like Niko, I'd strongly recommend lower-light species. Once you know what you're trying to accomplish you can set about looking at equipment. There is no earthly way to maintain a high-tech tank of that size without an enormous commitment of time & money. Forget about stem plants. You'd spend all of your time trimming.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info mate and yes there'll be plenty of photo's 



TAB said:


> 250 watt halides and good reflectros will cover about a 2x2 foot square and will pentrate up to about 2' down well, after that they get dark fast. 400 watters will get you down to about 32" or so. after that things get expensive fast.


I'm wondering whether to take a foot off the height of the tank and adding it tos the depth (front to back) so that the light only has to go through 3ft of water

Saying that though if I'm only using the kind of plants Niko suggested I think I'll be ok

I want to create a kind of mystical forest with bog wood as tree's and also have rocks in there with moss onto to get a kind of lord of the rings landscape look, if you know what I mean
Check out these 3 pics to see what I mean
http://www.adana-usa.com/images/gallery0/4.jpg
http://www.adana-usa.com/images/gallery0/1.jpg
http://www.adana-usa.com/images/gallery0/3.jpg
http://www.adana-usa.com/images/gallery0/2.jpg
http://www.adana-usa.com/images/gallery0/14.jpg
and here's a link to the website I got them pics from
http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=afa_portfolio


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

*Re: DIY Co2 Generator, Hagen Bubble Ladder & Co2 reactor to use in a 1200g PLEASE HEL*

Well, this is getting exciting and I hope this thread grows to be 1200 UK pages long 

I suggested Mosses because you can do virtually anything with their shape - shape them, trim them etc. And nowadays there are so many different kinds that if you like a droopy look you can have it, if you like a happy upward pointing looks you can have it.

But the main thing to me is that mosses grow even in ambient light. So the question of how to light up the monster tank could be easily answered if you choose mosses - use any light you want. I've had moss in a ziplock bag on the window sill. No water, no opening the bag for months. The moss actually grew. My point is - mosses are the perfect choice for a hands free maintenance.

I'm partial to Giesemann Midday T5HO bulbs because they seem to have a punch that defies the wpg rule. Also they provide beautiful colored light. No heat either. If I had to decide I would not use anything else but Giesemann Midday T5HO.

--Nikolay


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## TAB (Feb 7, 2009)

*Re: DIY Co2 Generator, Hagen Bubble Ladder & Co2 reactor to use in a 1200g PLEASE HEL*

Higher you go the less focused the light will be, so it will pentrate less. You want your halides less then 10" from the water. I always run mine less then 6" current set up its about 2"


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## apctt77 (Mar 15, 2009)

*Re: DIY Co2 Generator, Hagen Bubble Ladder & Co2 reactor to use in a 1200g PLEASE HEL*



niko said:


> I suggested Mosses because you can do virtually anything with their shape - shape them, trim them etc. And nowadays there are so many different kinds that if you like a droopy look you can have it, if you like a happy upward pointing looks you can have it.


Hey Niko

I don't suppose you can tell me the names of:-

The kind that droops down

The kind that point upwards

and the kind that grows quite bushy, rounded?

The reason I want to know is because I want to add bog wood and make it look like different kinds of trees. I want the droopy moss to hang down off the branches of one, I want the moss that points upwadrs on the ends of another bog woods branches and the same with the round bushy type (see 1st attached pic). I want them to look like Bonsai Trees. I also like the look of pic 3 which reminds me of when Luke Skywalker crashed into the swamp and met Yoda



TAB said:


> 250 watt halides and good reflectros will cover about a 2x2 foot square and will pentrate up to about 2' down well, after that they get dark fast. 400 watters will get you down to about 32" or so. after that things get expensive fast.


I've just realised the light will only have to go throught 3ft of water not 4ft.

The window at the front is 6inches from the top and 6inches from the bottom, also the gravel/soil will be 6inches thick and I'll only fill the tank with water to just above the top of the window so leaving 6inches clear in the top of the tank

So this should help when lighting the tank

I was thinking of maybe having rocks 1ft high with moss on top and trying to have a kind of lord of the rings scenery look (see 2nd pic attached). This would then mean that the majority of plants are only 2ft down from the lights!

If you imagine these three pics/styles mixed together so that you've got the big cliffs from pic 2 on the left and right of the tank with a few old looking trees ontop from pic 1 and then in the middle of the tank the cliffs drop down to a kind of over grown forest that looks a bit like pic 3. I think it'd look amazing!

What do you think?


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## airborne_r6 (Feb 10, 2009)

*Re: DIY Co2 Generator, Hagen Bubble Ladder & Co2 reactor to use in a 1200g PLEASE HEL*

Just buy pressurized CO2 it would be so much cheaper on a tank that size.

On my 20 gal tank I need 1 cup of sugar every 6 days. Your tank is 60 times larger than mine so you would need 60 cups of sugar every 6 days which is 3650 cups of sugar every year. One pound of sugar is approximately 2.25 cups so you would need approximately 1620 pounds of sugar a year. Sugar where I live costs around $0.50 per pound which means that the 1620 pounds of sugar is going to cost around $800. You should be able to get a top of the line pressurized CO2 setup for half of that.

This is a really rough approximation on the amount you would need but it doesnt include the cost of yeast, baking soda, molasses or anything else you would use in the mix or the bottles and tubing to set it up and it definitely does not address the massive amount of time necessary to change out the mix every single week.

Just the time savings would be worth it even if all other costs were the same. Further the majority of the expense of the pressurized setup is the one time purchase of equipment with the only ongoing expense the cost of refilling the tank. The majority of expense with the DIY is the ongoing purchase of sugar so the longer that you have the tank setup the larger the savings of using pressurized.


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## apctt77 (Mar 15, 2009)

*Re: DIY Co2 Generator, Hagen Bubble Ladder & Co2 reactor to use in a 1200g PLEASE HEL*



airborne_r6 said:


> Just buy pressurized CO2 it would be so much cheaper on a tank that size.
> 
> On my 20 gal tank I need 1 cup of sugar every 6 days. Your tank is 60 times larger than mine so you would need 60 cups of sugar every 6 days which is 3650 cups of sugar every year. One pound of sugar is approximately 2.25 cups so you would need approximately 1620 pounds of sugar a year. Sugar where I live costs around $0.50 per pound which means that the 1620 pounds of sugar is going to cost around $800. You should be able to get a top of the line pressurized CO2 setup for half of that.
> 
> ...


Wow

That's a lot of cash

Thanks for the info


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