# holey plants!



## cornbreadbob (Jan 28, 2010)

so I've had my first 10g planted tank set up for months now and everything was going good. i added two amazon sword plants and the large leaves began to die but as they died a lot more new ones sprouted so i figured it was due to the new water conditions or something like that. now about a month or so later the newer leaves are beginning to get holes in them and turn yellowish, this is also starting to happen to my cryp plant that I've had since the beginning of the tank all my other plants seem to totally fine its just the amazons and the crypt. the only change in the tank during this time i can think of would be the pond snail problem that is getting a little crazy and i plan on getting some assassin snails to fix that issue.

here are some pics to help give you an idea of what is going on








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sorry for the poor iphone quality

idk if the snails could cause or maybe a lack of co2? if anyone can tell me what they think the problem is that would be awesome!


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## cornbreadbob (Jan 28, 2010)

sorry i guess i didnt upload the pics right...


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## tiffc (Jan 8, 2010)

What's your tank specs? How much light do you have in there and do you fertilize? I've read that both crypts and swords love heavy soil fertilization to really do well. Maybe that's the case here?


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## cornbreadbob (Jan 28, 2010)

hey tiff,

this tank has eco complete for substrate and im using flourish. for lighting i have 2 of those 13 watt spiral compact florescent bulbs that replace 60 watt incandescent bulbs.


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## tiffc (Jan 8, 2010)

Hum, maybe you need to dose some macro ferts since you're using the Flourish (which supplies micros.) I'm unfamiliar with lighting a small tank like that...I do know that those usually get more wpg because of the size.

I wish I could give you clearer answers, there are plenty here that can fill in the gaps of info I've given though! 

My thoughts are that you need some macro dosing as well to be more well-rounded in fertilizing.


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## Franzi (Dec 7, 2009)

Do you condition (de-chlorinate) the water when doing water changes?


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Definitely macro issues; maybe even micro depending on light and flourish dosing. If you don't have your nutrients nailed down, CO2:light ratios are likely going to be the next issue after you do.

I'd recommend starting with an established system/dosing method; you'll get results. A stable system should be your first goal; find a way that sounds like it meets your needs.


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## cornbreadbob (Jan 28, 2010)

i usually condition my water, i recently ran out of conditioner and haven't gotten around to buying a new bottle, so for the last two water changes I've just been letting the water sit for a day before using it, could that really be the problem if so that's an easy fix


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

If it were the cause, your fauna would be dead by now. Chloramine will show there before the plants. Any other toxicity happens fast most of the time, and if it's hitting the plants then anything else alive usually shows the stress first. What does your stock list look like?

On the other hand, "My plants are dieing after 1 month and I'm not dosing any macros." may be the most common newcomer issue in the hobby. Plants tend to store about 2-6 weeks of nutrients back, so 1 month is the magical crash n' burn number for severe nutrient deprivation. Don't worry, everyone has been there; that's why we have dosing guides.


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## cornbreadbob (Jan 28, 2010)

i have 6 neon tetras 6 cherry shrimp 3 amano shrimp 2 otos and a clown pleco and all are doing great. so along with my flourish i should be dosing some other ferts like iron and potassium too? also do you think a diy co2 setup would be a good idea or is my lighting not intense enough?

thanks for all your help so far everyone


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## cornbreadbob (Jan 28, 2010)

sorry Philosophos i totally missed your first post till now. so what your saying is i need to get all my macro/micro nutrient levels stable since they are probably off due to the fact I'm only using flourish? and i should hold off on trying to add co2 until i have a good system going? i have 2.6 watts per gallon with my current lighting and Ive read that 2.5 is usually the minimum wpg to shoot for if you plan on using ferts and co2, do you think i would need a lighting upgrade to have these plants maintain stable and healthy growth?


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## ddavila06 (Jan 31, 2009)

im not sure what the exact cause if but i do recommend taking those bad leaves out and maybe adding a few root tabs to the sword and give it a little time to get better, hope it helps.


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

iron....


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

You can use CO2 and ferts with a low light tank. In fact, doing so makes a beautifully stable system; you can dose low so it takes a long time to accumulate, and it's dead easy to hit non-limiting CO2 levels. Right now I'm growing HC and staurogyne out in 1wpg of T5 just fine, which is something like 1.5wpg of T8. Those spiral CF's have a lot of loss from restrike, so you're probably running more like 1.5-2wpg. Even a DIY CO2 setup with some excel on the side works for that sort of light. If you don't feel like paying for excel, Cidex plus or metricide is way cheaper.

The flourish is a good micro. It's very expensive compared to CSM+B, but it does the job without a doubt. Most people switch to CSM+B because the same sites that provide KNO3 and KH2PO4 also sell it, and it does just as good of a job. My store of choice is aquariumfertilizer.com. At your light ranges, you'll be hitting deficiencies unless you dose macros. Your substrate has no bio-available nutrients besides some iron and a little Mg with that Eco-Complete, so dosing becomes more important. It will eventually gain nutrients if you dose the column heavy because of its CEC, but it doesn't start with much.

Check your water hardness too; you may be coming up short on Ca/Mg but won't know until the macro problem is solved. A water quality report is always good.

Anyhow, start with the macros and move from there. CO2 isn't an emergency at your light level, and the light can always be reduced if you don't want to increase the CO2. You'll know a month (possibly less) after you start dosing the macros.


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## tiffc (Jan 8, 2010)

Great advice as always from Dan! I myself was taking mental notes 

Let us know how the plants work out, Cornbreadbob!


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## psusaxman2000 (Dec 22, 2009)

I'm fairly new here myself (been a lurker for a long time), but these guys will never steer your wrong.

They've given some great in site already, but I thought I'd lend my two sense. I found a thread on here a while back that I refer to all the time. It talks about micro and macro problems that you'll see through what your plants look like. This will help you over come some of you plant issues as I know it has for me.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilizing/62876-plant-deficiency-picture-diagram.html


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