# Experiment ADA Aqua Soil, change substrate



## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

In order to mitigate the potential fish loss to my 125g substrate change over to AquaSoil I'm trying an experiment. I'm going to try to "new cycle" the AquaSoil in bins on the counter instead of in my tank. I have put 1.5 9ltr bags in a 13 gallon bin. Then I have added 10 gallons of water with Prime added. Each day I will stir up the water, and do a partial water change. I'm gonna try to leave it in there until the Ammonia spike is gone. Then I can move it over into my existing tank, changing out the pea gravel. If this doesn't work I have lost nothing but time. Here is what I have so far -


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Tex Gal said:


> In order to mitigate the potential fish loss to my 125g substrate change over to AquaSoil I'm trying an experiment. I'm going to try to "new cycle" the AquaSoil in bins on the counter instead of in my tank. I have put 1.5 9ltr bags in a 13 gallon bin. Then I have added 10 gallons of water with Prime added. Each day I will stir up the water, and do a partial water change. I'm gonna try to leave it in there until the Ammonia spike is gone. Then I can move it over into my existing tank, changing out the pea gravel. If this doesn't work I have lost nothing but time. Here is what I have so far -


That sounds like an interesting experiment. The only problem that I see is that water does not carry a lot of the beneficial bacteria required to cycle a tank. Most of the beneficial bacteria colonizes in large quantities on the glass in the gravel and in the filter media such as the polyfibre. There are a couple of modifications that you could try to really speed up the process. Add a small filter and put some filter media(i.e., polyfibre from your existing filter) to see the filter with beneficial bacteria and let it run in the bins. The problem is that the turbulance caused by the filter may resolve one issue but add to another(intensify clouding issues due to stirring up the surface constantly). Another thing that you can try is something like Bio-Spira, a concentrated form of nitrifying bacteria, added to the bins and run a small airstone connected to an airstone to provide the oxygen to feed the beneficial bacteria and cause them to rapidly multiply. With this latter method, you still have to change at least a 1/3 of the water every other day but you get around the intense turbulance and clouding issues that would result from running a small filter. Now, once you transfer the substrate into your tank, keep in mind that the plants will outcompete the nitrifying bacteria for any ammonia produced by fish waste or feeding, which means the bacteria colonies that you built up will probably dramatically dwindle,but at least they will have served their task of neuralizing the high levels of ammonia.

Many people who set up natural planted tanks, usually just soak soil in water and rinse the water every two weeks before placing it in the tank to avoid ammonia spikes. This method may also work for Aquasoil, which when you think about it is nothing but rich soil processed to be used in aquariums. Just letting the Aquasosoil soak in the bins for two weeks, changing the water daily, may be more than enough to neutralize the ammonia.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Thanks Homer_Simpson. I have added the bio stuff and hope it will grow. Wondering why I need an airstone. Isn't there enough air exchange from the water surface to supply the O2 for bacteria? I don't really care about clouding in the bins as it's not hurting anything. The water changes are to dilute any ammonias that are leeching from the soil.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Tex Gal said:


> Thanks Homer_Simpson. I have added the bio stuff and hope it will grow. Wondering why I need an airstone. Isn't there enough air exchange from the water surface to supply the O2 for bacteria? I don't really care about clouding in the bins as it's not hurting anything. The water changes are to dilute any ammonias that are leeching from the soil.


You're welcome 
Running the airstone to further amplify oxygen levels should speed up the growth of nitrifying bacteria. Before I got into planted tanks, I was big into fishless cycling and other methods of cycling tanks quickly. One thing that I noticed and perhaps it was only coincidental is that tanks where I ran an airstone, with all other things being equal just seemed to cycle a lot faster, in some cases 3-5 days faster. I also read about other peoples' experiences who stated that they were able to use an airstone when they got stuck at the high ammonia or nitrite phase of cycling to get past that phase.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Well then, sounds like what I need to do. Airstone it is!!


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## bsmith (Dec 13, 2006)

I did no experiment but I did keep AS II in a 5g bucket with water for a couple of weeks changing the water every other day before I added it to my MINI-M, and had no problems with an ammonia spike in it.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

bsmith782 said:


> I did no experiment but I did keep AS II in a 5g bucket with water for a couple of weeks changing the water every other day before I added it to my MINI-M, and had no problems with an ammonia spike in it.


That's good news.  It sounds like what I'm doing will work. About 2 or 2 months ago I set up a 10g shrimp tank with ASII. I had an awful time with ammonia. I had no fish or shrimp in that tank until it seasoned.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Hey Tex Gal, why not just fill the 125 with a bunch of plants and let them use up the ammonia/ammonium? By the end of 2-3 weeks you should have more plants than you started with and you can sell/trade your excess plants for fish or shrimp to put in the new tank ;-)


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

MatPat said:


> Hey Tex Gal, why not just fill the 125 with a bunch of plants and let them use up the ammonia/ammonium? By the end of 2-3 weeks you should have more plants than you started with and you can sell/trade your excess plants for fish or shrimp to put in the new tank ;-)


Matt - my tank already has tons of plants. I also have a plant grow out tank that has more to go in there. Eventually I won't use all these types. But I want to have them available as the spirit moves...  See this thread:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/large-aquariums-ponds/47782-125g-rescape.html

When I was talking to Jeff at ADG he told me I needed to take my fish out for a month and put them in bins until the ammonia spike was gone. I'm afraid the plants won't take it all up and my fish will suffer. I have some plecos in there that are over $50 each. _ Did you look at my tank? Do you think they will take up all the ammonia?  _ I had a horrid time with my 10g shrimp tank - course it was completely new. I will use most all the hardscape plus some new manzanita and more lace rocks.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Changed almost all the water tonight in the bins. It's too cloudy to try to test for ammonia. As I moved it around with my hand it was interesting that there was warmth in the soil. There is definitely a chemical reaction taking place in that stuff. When I stirred it up I got some bubbly foam on the top of the water. In one of the bins there was some sort of seed sprouting! I threw it away. No unwanted hitchhikers please! I'll test for ammonia as soon as I can. 

In other news.... my plant grow out tank that I set up last week the ammonia level was down to 0.5 AFTER a water change. I have it with lots of plants. That's pretty good considering it's the 1st water change I've done. I guess the plants are doing their thing. That tank has 1 9L bag of Amazonia II mixed with 1 bad of black flourite. The plot thickens......


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Tested water in bins this am and ammonia is at 0.6. That is better than when I did this before. Perhaps this will work.


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## bsmith (Dec 13, 2006)

Your in, just keep it up untill your at 0 ammonia and hello beautiful plants!


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Nitrifying bacteria use a LOT of oxygen, which is highly likely why any method of increasing the gas exchange enhances the cycle. 
If you are working to have a thriving colony of nitrifying bacteria then I would definitely add some sort of water movement to oxygenate the water. 
If the goal is simply to water change the ammonia away, then just stirring the stuff every few hours might be enough, just enough to keep it from getting stagnant, and to keep moving the ammonia into the water. The more water changes you do the better, I would think. A constant trickle system might be best of all. (Think about running the water into the garden so the ammonia is not wasted)


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Thanks Diana K for the info- 
I have 2 goals. I want to establish the nutrifying bacteria and I want to pass through the high ammonia levels. Once these are accomplished I can change out my substrate in my well established 125g tank without substantial loss of fish and plants. I don't worry about the plants as much since they like the ammonia. My real worry is the fish. So... if I can accomplish these two things then I know I have decrease the risk to my fish.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Tested water today without a water change and ammonia is zero. I think it may be time for the rescape this sunday! I'll let you know how it goes once it gets in my tank! So far this has done just what I wanted it to.


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## bsmith (Dec 13, 2006)

Scape it, then share some pics! Do you have a plan for what plants you are wanting to use?


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

This is my tank rescape thread. I have the plants in my tank now and also the ones at the end of my post in my grow out tank. I don't have anything drawn out. I am just going to see what fits once I get the hardscape in there. I'm going to use color, size, shape and texture. I just love the contrast of all those. I'm going to try hard not to make it a colllectoritis tank. We'll see how successful I am. Some of my mosses aren't grown enough to put them in yet. But it's always something I can add later.
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/large-aquariums-ponds/47782-125g-rescape.html


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Your tank is absolutely beautiful as it is. Just out of curiosity, what is the current substrate that you are using in the tank. Let me guess. Laterite mixed with or overlaid with pea size gravel???


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## bsmith (Dec 13, 2006)

Great looking tank! You obviously know what your doing, keep it up.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Homer_Simpson said:


> Your tank is absolutely beautiful as it is. Just out of curiosity, what is the current substrate that you are using in the tank. Let me guess. Laterite mixed with or overlaid with pea size gravel???


Thanks for the compliment! Yes and no on your guess. I have a 50/50 mix of Laterite/Flourite and pea gravel. I consider the laterite and flourite the same thing, so I got enough of that to have a equal mix with the pea gravel. The pea gravel is too big to hold down the fine rooted plants. I have used this for many many years with plant tabs. This particular tank has been set up for about 4 years. But 1/2 of this substrate goes back maybe 10 years. I just went high tech the first of Oct. I have always wanted to grow the reds, the high light plants, the tiny foreground plants. I was never able to with this substrate. So.... maybe with CO2, AS, and ferts I'll have success!! Looking forward to it! 

BSmith782 Thanks also. I'm certainly not the experts I see on this forum, but I love gardening. Aquariums are a great substitute for outside gardening. I tend to get into it more in the winter when everything is dormant outside. I have lots of beds outside and just love all the plants. It's like I can bring a botanical garden right into my livingroom AND it's under water!! How COOL!!


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

END RESULT for me was that this was definitely the way to go. I changed the tank Sunday and have had no ammonia issues yet. I have had to change water due to cloudy issues. I think that is just a function of this soil and would have happened anyway. I could be wrong but.... I haven't lost any fish yet!


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