# Help needed to identify deficiency



## jerryuk (Oct 24, 2008)

Hello all. Wondering if someone could help identify the issue with my Tropica Echinodorus 'Rubin' (rather poor photo below). As you can see the leaves have light patches on them, particularly along the outside edges. Growth is quite fast given I don't really have enough light for it. This is a child plant from the original which grew huge before dying off some time ago. Crypts and vallis are growing like mad, as is Hygro and my lilies. I've noticed that new leaves on my 'normal' swords tend to be red veined and sometimes look slightly twisted.










Tank is 180L Juwel Rio with 2x30w with reflectors (1.5wpg) and DIY CO2. Have been dosing lowish levels of Kent Freshwater + Pro but also have dry ferts available. Water is RO reconstituted with CaSO4, MgSO4, NaHCO3 and KHCO3 to GH/KH 5. NO3 20ppm, PO4 2ppm, Ca 40ppm, Fe 0.05ppm. Moderately high livestock levels including Amano shrimp.

Any suggestions appreciated.

Jerry


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

I don't think that is a deficiency. Some of these new _Echinodorus_ varieties look a little abnormal. There is one where the new growth is almost white, and it isn't iron deficiency, as you might think from the way it looks; it is just the result of one or more mutations.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

jerryuk said:


> Tank is 180L Juwel Rio with 2x30w with reflectors (1.5wpg) and DIY CO2. Have been dosing lowish levels of Kent Freshwater + Pro


I don't think that's normal. Some of the new Echinodorus hybrids are weird, but not like that. It just looks really underfertilized. A good trace element mix and/or soem root tabs should fix it.


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## jerryuk (Oct 24, 2008)

I've had this plant for about 4 or 5 years and I don't recall new growth looking like this in the past other than on the odd few occasions. The substrate is plain gravel but I've been using JBL balls for several years and that plant is always targetted. I've started adding daily TE mix to see if that has any effect but don't want to overdo it and end up with a tank of algae!


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

If the macros and everything else are in line that won't happen. But just go slowly.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Here is a link to a nice guide on plant deficiencies:
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm


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## jerryuk (Oct 24, 2008)

Hi Newt,

Yeah checked Chucks page and various others already. Couldn't find anything that sounded like my issue, hence the post here.

I've been adding daily trace since the original posting and all 3 of these plants are sprouting new leaves so it'll be interesting to see what they look like. My giant vallis babies are still growing 3" daily anyway!

Jerry


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Since the symptoms appear to be different from a normal plant of that variety and, since they appear in the new growth, the first thing I would try is increasing the iron dosing. Push the iron!


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## jerryuk (Oct 24, 2008)

After a couple of weeks daily dosing traces the new leaves appear to be coming out pure red, which is good. I'm a little surprised to find that a trace deficiency should affect this particular plant most severely given that it's about the slowest growing plant in the tank (except anubis) but there you go!

Jerry


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

Just curious: did you specifically dose Fe daily or all (some mix of) traces daily?


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Fe twice or three times a week. Other traces as per instructions. Other traces stay in solution.


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## algaehater (Jul 18, 2008)

More iron wouldnt hurt.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

It doesnt look like iron deficiency at all. Iron is way over dosed by most hobbists anyway.

Looks more like a Potassium deficiency:
Pinholes appear in older leaves, and slowly enlarge
Yellow areas
Withering of leaf edges and tips
+
Along with Nitrogen deficiency:
Leaves turn yellowish
Older leaves die off quickly in extreme deficiencies.


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## algaehater (Jul 18, 2008)

What about excess k bein dosed on the same day as iron causing precipitation of iron causing iron deficiency?
Is that possible?


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Iron can precipitate out when there is excess phosphate or calcium, but not with excess potassium as far as I know.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Poster: JerryUK says he has 20ppm NO3. ???

Still think the potassium deficiency fits with the holes but not the dying leaves.


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## algaehater (Jul 18, 2008)

HeyPK said:


> Iron can precipitate out when there is excess phosphate or calcium, but not with excess potassium as far as I know.


This chart tells me excess potassium causes precipitation of iron, it also states excess phosphate causes fe or zn deficiency

http://www.finostrom.com.gr/images/aqua/fertilizers/map.htm


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## algaehater (Jul 18, 2008)

I could be reading it wrong.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

The chart is in error. Notice that it says "reaction with Fe production of iron phosphate, precipitation of iron causing iron deficiency" You can't get iron phosphate by reacting potassium with iron! That little part I quoted should be under phosphorus, not potassium.


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## marvik11 (Dec 25, 2008)

Hi,
if you have iron problem like i had better to remove the carbon i had to do it then was plain sailing from there on for me
Regards
MaRvIk


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

I think HeyPK is thinking of the case where: If you dose KH2PO4 at the same time as Plantex CSM+B or other iron bearing compound or solution you may get the formation of iron-phosphate which is almost impossible to dissolve in water. This has nothing to do with nutrient uptake being blocked.

I think you are both correct.

Very nice chart you provided in the link, algaehater.


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## jerryuk (Oct 24, 2008)

wet said:


> Just curious: did you specifically dose Fe daily or all (some mix of) traces daily?


Hi. I've have been dosing a trace mix rather than Fe specifically. I've been using RO for a long while so with the water changes I'm making there's no danger of the other traces getting to excessive levels.


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

For whatever its worth, and I have never grown a big sword, that makes more sense to me. It is just not a deficiency that looks like Fe to me and I am more inclined to agree with the initial diagnosis/guess of the folks in this thread, and that your keeping immobile and mobile traces around addressed that deficiency (deficiencies?).


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