# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Whisper Filters



## The Bishop (Mar 11, 2004)

I run Whisper brand overflow filters on my tanks. My current regimen of weekly maintenance includes washing out the filter bags under tap water (I do not use activated carbon). Would it be beneficial to remove even these bags so the filter only moves water, thus helping to eliminate more of the nitrifying bacteria that steal ammonia from the plants? I've been afraid to try it out, and was wondering if anyone had any experience with these "filterless" filters.


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## The Bishop (Mar 11, 2004)

I run Whisper brand overflow filters on my tanks. My current regimen of weekly maintenance includes washing out the filter bags under tap water (I do not use activated carbon). Would it be beneficial to remove even these bags so the filter only moves water, thus helping to eliminate more of the nitrifying bacteria that steal ammonia from the plants? I've been afraid to try it out, and was wondering if anyone had any experience with these "filterless" filters.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Your tank is filled with nitrifying bacteria (on plants, gravel, all surfaces), so whether you use a filter bag or not probably won't make much difference in terms of plant growth or fish health.

I wrote about the competition between plants and nitrifying bacteria for ammonia, because its interesting and gives plants the role they deserve in ammonia removal. Under some circumstances (really heavy biological filtration), the competition might reduce plant growth slightly. But a Whisper filter... I doubt it will make a bit of difference.

I'd set up your Whisper filter the way you want.


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## Wally (Aug 31, 2003)

Something I do along the same lines is to run emperor filters by marine land. In my heavily planted tank I remove the biowheels.

The reason I like the emperor filters is that they come with a cool plastic basket that is supposed to be used to place extra carbon in the water flow, but I stuff them with floss and do not use the carts that I am supposed to use.

The floss works quite well as a mechancal filter and its dirt cheap


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## The Bishop (Mar 11, 2004)

Well, if it isn't going to make a difference, I'd rather retain the mechanical filtration that the bags provide.

Thanks for your help!

Ms. Walstad, I have read your book and would like to compliment you on an excellent and useful piece of literature. Your work has been seminal in my understanding of the biological processes that occur in my aquariums. Thank you!


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## The Bishop (Mar 11, 2004)

Ms. Walstad,

You state on page 107 of your book (and show evidence for the fact) that plants prefer ammonium over other nitrogen sources. In this light, I wonder if epiphytic nitrifying bacteria do in fact grow successfully on the leaves of aquatic plants. Especially with allelochemicals as abundant as they seem, it doesn't make much sense that a plant would allow competing bacteria to grow freely on its surface.

Thoughts?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Plant release of allelochemicals also costs energy to plants. In terms of what makes sense, if I were a plant I would save my energy for more important threats than nitrifying bacteria (nitrifying bacteria are more of an inconvenience). Real threats would be other plant species or algae species that threaten a takeover. That's why the strongest scientific evidence I found for allelochemical release by aquatic plants is plant species v. plant species in a given environment where the plants had evolved together over a long period. These can be mortal struggles to plants, worth the energetic costs of producing allelochemicals. 

Bacteria do form a layer (biofilm) on plant leaves. I would assume that nitrifiers would be in this little community.


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

brain overload for a meathead like me......


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

Wally said:


> Something I do along the same lines is to run emperor filters by marine land. In my heavily planted tank I remove the biowheels.
> 
> The reason I like the emperor filters is that they come with a cool plastic basket that is supposed to be used to place extra carbon in the water flow, but I stuff them with floss and do not use the carts that I am supposed to use.
> 
> The floss works quite well as a mechancal filter and its dirt cheap


I used floss in my HOB filter, until my fish started dying. Then swithced to filter pad for bucket, which sells as 1 big sheet for $5.


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

dawntwister said:


> I used floss in my HOB filter, until my fish started dying. Then swithced to filter pad for bucket, which sells as 1 big sheet for $5.


How long was the tank setup for when you started using the floss? Did your fish stop dying after you switched?

-ricardo


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Has anyone used plain old filter sponge in their filters for NPT's? If so, did you have any problems with it? I've considered getting a HOB filter and I just wanted to add sponge to it for mechanical filtration.

This won't hurt the tank in general, will it?


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

I was using 2 sponge filters in my 10G tank. They were doing fine until the anarchin plants I recently bought melted. I had such a mess, even after doing a water change. Thus I put the HOB filter with filter pads inserted back on. I prefer the sponge filters; for the HOB filter tends to make a depression in my sand. Will probably go back to sponge filters after my vacation.

What size of tank do you have Red Rose to need so much filteration?

Oh, by the way, I have had no deaths since using filter pads in HOB. I found after having problems with quaranteen tanks, that I have a habit of overfeeding my fish. Can't feed them 2x a day anymore.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

dawntwister said:


> What size of tank do you have Red Rose to need so much filteration?
> 
> Oh, by the way, I have had no deaths since using filter pads in HOB. I found after having problems with quaranteen tanks, that I have a habit of overfeeding my fish. Can't feed them 2x a day anymore.


I have a 10 gallon tank and after the adjustments I'll be making on it, the flow will be reduced quite a bit not to mention that I'll be keeping the flow adjustment on the filter to the lowest setting.(I'll be using an AquaClear 20) I'm going to be putting sponge on the end of the intake tube(as well as inside the filter) and a baffle on the part where the water comes out. The only reason I'm using it is for water circulation and to pick up debris.

Maybe your anarchin plants melted not because of the filters you were using but from acclimatizing to the new water? When I had first set up my tank, all but two stems of my L. glandulosa melted due to adapting to different water.


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

I just read that anarchins are sensitive. Twise I have bought them and twise they have completely melted. Most of my other plants are doing find, thus not going to buy anarchins again. My sags have a few leaves that have melted but they are reproduding.


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