# breeding neon terta?



## APCRandall (Feb 2, 2007)

Im trying to breed my neon tetra. I have a 5 1/2 gallon aquarium a heater and a sponge filter goin also 2 fake breeding things... Anything els I need or should know? Any tips sexing them?


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

Filter RO water or rain water with peat moss until the pH is between 5.5 and 6.0. Boil this water to remove bacteria. You also need to disinfect the breeding tank and all equipment including spawning mop (I use some fishing line) with salt. Heat the tank to 76F. Rinse tank with some peat water then fill tank with peat water. Recheck pH. Ripe female is rounder around the belly. Usually, the neons will perform a breeding dance in the community tank if you have clean water. That's the easiest way to select the right pair for the breeding tank.

Add the conditioned pair (9 to 12 months old) to the tank. Do not turn on the light. Do not feed the fish. The fish will usually breed during early dawn if left alone for three days. After spawning, remove parents and immediately cover the tank so that NO light will enter the tank. Light and bacteria will kill the eggs. If you're lucky, the eggs with hatch in about 3 days.

Neons are so cheap, I'd buy them from the LFS. You'll need plenty of clean peat water to raise the babies for the first few weeks. Once they are 1/4" long, you can gradually move them to tap water.


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## John P. (Nov 24, 2004)

APCRandall said:


> Im trying to breed my neon tetra.


You'll need more than one tertra.


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## Jessie (Apr 23, 2007)

While I've never bred neons, I do believe that they will probably appreciate a little more security. A dark background, perhaps even covering the sides. Some more plants for coverage and hiding, too.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

John P. said:


> You'll need more than one tertra.


LOL! 

I agree with Jessie, you need to give them a little more shelter with a background and some real plants in there. In a bare environment like that, chances are they aren't going to feel secure and may not do anything but try to hide in a corner.

Good luck with it.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

JanS said:


> LOL!
> 
> I agree with Jessie, you need to give them a little more shelter with a background and some real plants in there. In a bare environment like that, chances are they aren't going to feel secure and may not do anything but try to hide in a corner.
> 
> Good luck with it.


Funny how people who have never raised neons and cardinals are turning into expert breeders.

Security is the least of my concern. Neons and cards will mate when moved to this special acidic water. Course the female must be ready to drop eggs. An ultra ripe female will have a small "0.5 mm tube" sticking out near the anal fin (within hours from scattering eggs). She'll drop eggs even without a male. Neons breed like rats in a community tank with clean water. Yes, they provide plenty of eggs for my cardinals (tap water with 8.2 pH and 10KH). These guys like to run across the tank while scattering eggs.

They usually mate during sunrise. Covering the tank will deprive the mating pair from this natural cue. The tank should be covered only AFTER fertilization and remain dark for several days. The young neons must also be in complete darkness for another two days. They are sensitive to light at birth.

Complete sterilization of the tank is the key to prevent fungus from attacking the eggs. Even bare hand in the tank can introduce unwanted micro-bacteria. Some aquarists will also lower the pH to 5.2 to minimize the growth of bacteria. Again, be sure to sterilize the peat water before adding the fish. I net the fish, then flip them into the breeding tank to reduce the chance of water contamination from the community tank.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

furballi said:


> Funny how people who have never raised neons and cardinals are turning into expert breeders.


Funny how people can make assumptions without knowing the facts too..... 
And no, I'm not a self proclaimed expert like you seem to be, but I've been doing the fish thing for over 30 years, so knock it off with the attitude.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

JanS said:


> Funny how people can make assumptions without knowing the facts too.....
> And no, I'm not a self proclaimed expert like you seem to be, but I've been doing the fish thing for over 30 years, so knock it off with the attitude.


Let's see how far the OP get with the "real plants" method. There are also a few commercial neon breeders in Fl. Surely these guys will be able to provide the OP with sound advice.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

furballi
In your opinion, a transparent clear glass aquarium without hiding places sitting on a white bathroom cabinet and surrounded by glossy white walls will have a better chance of spawning Neons? 

Thank you
Edward


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

Edward said:


> furballi
> In your opinion, a transparent clear glass aquarium without hiding places sitting on a white bathroom cabinet and surrounded by glossy white walls will have a better chance of spawning Neons?
> 
> Thank you
> Edward


I don't use GOOG as a source of reference, just acts and hands-on experience in raising neons and cards to full-size adults. Like I said, let's see how far the OP gets with the planted breeder tank.

If you want to learn something new, then take a trip to South Fl to get educated about the art and science of breeding neons and cardinals. The Europeans have also isolated the gene to reproduce a strain of gold cardinals.


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## Jessie (Apr 23, 2007)

Furballi, your attitude and reading comprehension really discredit your infinite knowledge and experience  No one here minus yourself has claimed to be the end-all, be-all of 'neon and card' breeding, we're simply contributing our ideas to help the OP. Try relaxing or better yet, being polite. This isn't a competition.

That's great that breeders have developed a gold strain. Too bad that has nothing to do with what the OP was asking. So please answer the question (just to humor our uneducated minds):



Edward said:


> furballi
> In your opinion, a transparent clear glass aquarium without hiding places sitting on a white bathroom cabinet and surrounded by glossy white walls will have a better chance of spawning Neons?


Are the Europeans breeding them in stark white bathrooms? No one said the tank needed to be fully planted or completely blacked out. Sure, if they have optimal acidic water that'll be the main push, but what if they're downright frightened? We're concerned about the neons feeling secure enough in that temporary environment to replicate natural behaviors, such as spawning. :clap2:


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

Jessie said:


> Furballi, your attitude and reading comprehension really discredit your infinite knowledge and experience  No one here minus yourself has claimed to be the end-all, be-all of 'neon and card' breeding, we're simply contributing our ideas to help the OP. Try relaxing or better yet, being polite. This isn't a competition.
> 
> That's great that breeders have developed a gold strain. Too bad that has nothing to do with what the OP was asking. So please answer the question (just to humor our uneducated minds):
> 
> Are the Europeans breeding them in stark white bathrooms? No one said the tank needed to be fully planted or completely blacked out. Sure, if they have optimal acidic water that'll be the main push, but what if they're downright frightened? We're concerned about the neons feeling secure enough in that temporary environment to replicate natural behaviors, such as spawning. :clap2:


The water column must be very clean before the eggs will hatch. Adding live plant will pollute the water, allowing fungus to attack the eggs. Neons are not shy during breeding season. A healthy female can drop 30 to 40 eggs every 3 to 4 weeks (more often if given plenty of live food).

With fresh acidic water and proper conditioning, most female will quickly mate with any healthy male within 24 hour. The most difficult task for the aquarist is to keep fungus from attacking the fertilized eggs.

Decades ago, when neons were first introduced to the US, people try to use the "natural" method with plants to mimic the condition in the wild. Unfortunately, most of the eggs never hatched. Eventually, people figured out that the key variables were the clean acidic water and the timely introduction of light.

Cards are a different story. They will drop a lot of eggs (200 to 300), but getting them to breed consistently is still a close-kept secret.


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## Jessie (Apr 23, 2007)

Ok, this works then.

What if plants are bleach-dipped to sterilize, or just other sterile plastic plants are used?

Would giving the tank a dark background have any benefit?

Would it be beneficial if the OP kept the lights in the bathroom on; in other words, would turning the room lighting on and off disrupt anything?

Would adding an anti-fungal to the breeding tank help the outcome of the eggs?


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

furballi said:


> Let's see how far the OP get with the "real plants" method. There are also a few commercial neon breeders in Fl. Surely these guys will be able to provide the OP with sound advice.


I don't know why I'm wasting my breath here, but we aren't Florida mass breeders here; we're planted tank hobbyists, and want to do things in the home environment the natural way. There are other boards for mass breeders who aren't involved with the art of aquascaping or just enjoying the hobby without depending on making a buck off what they're doing. Perhaps your expertise would be better appreciated there? Or better yet, if you're the master of all, why don't you have your own board with an "ask the expert" section where you can have control of the whole thing?

This is a friendly board where we welcome every-one's opinion, and if you just want to offer your opinion without challenging everyone else who tries to help, that's fine too. We are all just trying to share our past experiences, and if someone does "GOOG" something, they usually say so. This is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby, so why not relax and try to broaden your horizons? 
I've been doing this for a long time, but I never stop trying to learn.


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## Rob Tetrazona (Jun 21, 2005)

APCRandall said:


> Im trying to breed my neon tetra. I have a 5 1/2 gallon aquarium a heater and a sponge filter goin also 2 fake breeding things... Anything els I need or should know? Any tips sexing them?


Contrary to popular belief around here, I've had success breeding Neons with slight variations. I use a homemade "egg trap" to separate the parents from the eggs that fall to the bottom, so they can't be eaten. I use Java Moss from an established, planted tank as spawning media and a source of infusoria. I use a 5.5G tank. I don't clean squat! I just rinse the tank out with tap water before using it. Everything usually gets air dried. RO water and raise the GH just a hair. I cover the tank with a towel and lights out at dusk. I go to work early and get back in the early evening, check on them, and there's the eggs. Many are left on the moss and tank accessories too. I buy my Neons from PetSmart and usually just under 150 per spawn hatch.


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## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

furballi said:


> Decades ago, when neons were first introduced to the US, people try to use the "natural" method with plants to mimic the condition in the wild. Unfortunately, most of the eggs never hatched. Eventually, people figured out that the key variables were the clean acidic water and the timely introduction of light.


So just how do tetras reproduce in the wild? Is it just a very low survival rate thing or is there something really difficult to duplicate in an aquarium?


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## Mud Pie Mama (Jul 30, 2006)

furballi said:


> Let's see how far the OP get with the "real plants" method. .


When I look at the photo provided by the OP, I don't see any "real plants"; I only see "2 fake breeding things... ". I think these type of artificial plant "breeding things" are plastic and could be sterilized if so desired.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

ruki said:


> So just how do tetras reproduce in the wild? Is it just a very low survival rate thing or is there something really difficult to duplicate in an aquarium?


Getting neons to breed is very easy. The healthy young females drop eggs in my community tank at least once a month. So what proof do I have? The cardinals have a full belly when I check on them in the morning. They love to chase after the ripe female during mating. Some female neons prefer to stay in place while releasing the eggs. Each neon will drop about 40 eggs. Note that my community tank is filled with 8.2 pH/10KH tap water!

That said, I've never seen cardinals reproduce in this water. Fungus is the number one enemy of the newly fertized eggs. I suspect a constant flow of pure acidic rain water is the key ingredient for keeping the eggs in good condition.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

Mud Pie Mama said:


> When I look at the photo provided by the OP, I don't see any "real plants"; I only see "2 fake breeding things... ". I think these type of artificial plant "breeding things" are plastic and could be sterilized if so desired.


None of my neons require any additional "safety" accomodation to reproduce. I use bundled fishing line as a barrier between the fish and the eggs.


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## milalic (Aug 26, 2005)

furballi said:


> None of my neons require any additional "safety" accomodation to reproduce. I use bundled fishing line as a barrier between the fish and the eggs.


Your method works and according to you has been proven. That does not mean there are not other methods to breed them. I suggest toning down the attitude towards others. Is not the first time I see this.


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## milalic (Aug 26, 2005)

APCRandall,

I hope the suggestions here from other members help you in breeding your neons. I am sure there are more than one way to breed them as some of the comments in the thread have indicated.

Let us know if you succeed and what you need. 

Cheers


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## Intros (Apr 26, 2006)

A short question from an European without knowledge in breeding neons: some of my colleagues here who succeed until the eggs hatched, lost the fry thereafter and considered that was due to inappropriate feeding of the fry. Do you have some suggestion for this phase (the first weeks feeding)? Thank you!


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## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

Here's a tangent coming back into the thread.

In another forum, someone suggested using Hydrogen Peroxide, H2O2 (HOOH) for treating problem algae. I did the quick wikipedia lookup and found that this also allegedly works to control fungus on fish eggs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide


> The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has classified hydrogen peroxide as a Low Regulatory Priority (LRP) drug for use in controlling fungus on fish and fish eggs.


Not any details. However, there were some research references on doing this.
http://www.umesc.usgs.gov/aquatic/drug_research/hydrogen_peroxide/presentations.html
http://www.umesc.usgs.gov/aquatic/drug_research/hydrogen_peroxide/publications.html
http://afs.allenpress.com/perlserv/....1577/1548-8454(2001)063<0161:ROWHPT>2.0.CO;2

Note that 35% Perxaid is what is FDA approved for fungus control on fish eggs for human consumption aquaculture.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=70220

Anyone have experience in using H2O2 to control fungus outbreaks on eggs?


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## Rob Tetrazona (Jun 21, 2005)

Intros said:


> A short question from an European without knowledge in breeding neons: some of my colleagues here who succeed until the eggs hatched, lost the fry thereafter and considered that was due to inappropriate feeding of the fry. Do you have some suggestion for this phase (the first weeks feeding)? Thank you!


It will take 5 days to use up the egg sacs. Put some live plants or trimmings in the fry tank. They will feed on the infusoria for the first couple of days. Then slowly introduce 1 day old BBS.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

I use "green" water. Boil lettuce and let it sit in the sun with a good lid. You will see the water turning green/cloudy. Use an eye dropper to add this infusoria-rich water to the tank. This water will deteriorate in a few days, so make sure you have several batches for the young fish. Live plants alone may not provide sufficient food for the new fish. It's best to maintain a bare tank for the first month.

The babies are sensitive to light for the first week and live plants need light for good growth. Avoid direct lighting. Change at least 50% of the water each day for the first month. With very clean water and frequent meals, the fish can graduate to live food after 4 days on infusoria. New hatched brine shrimp works well but can be expensive. I put shrimp in a blender to make shrimp paste. Each particle should be small enough for the fish to ingest. You can lightly boil the shrimp for longer storage. These guys can handle ground flakes between 3 to 4 weeks.

Clean RO water with 10% tap is best for the new fish. Gradually phase in tap water after one month. The babies can join the community tank at 1/4" length. Make you the filter's intake tube are covered with panty hose.


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