# Walstad method for a 600 liter tank



## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

I am fuming mad at myself. I started a African Cichlid tank, run successful for two years. Lots of babies, magnificent large colourful fish. Then I added a batch of new fish straight to the tank. Long story short, it wiped out the entire population of 45 Cichlids. I have 4 left.

So now I am sterilising the tank and equipment and starting from scratch. A dirted tank with a Hamburg matten filter (new) The pump is rated 10,000 lph, and I am configuring it to recircute at the back of the matten filter to contol the flow.

I have two bags of organic potting soil, bone meal and blood, and three bags of black scoria as a the cap (5-10mm). 

The idea is to create a balanced eco system with minimal intervention on my part. I can't fill the aquarium right off the bat, 600 liter water changes is a lot of wasted water. So I will start at 10 cm water and work my way up. Starting with fast growing plants. Anachris, water sprite and guppy grass.

If the water get stable, black worms go in, followed by bladder snails. If they thrive cull cherry shrimp goes in. As plants and animals thrive, slowly increase the water level. No filtration running.

At about 30 cm depth add swords and crypts. Which will melt and grow back. When they thrive, increase water level (max 60 cm). When it gets filled to the top, add a few turquoise Moscow Guppies and let them breed.

As the bioload increase significantly, slowly start matten filter on low flow. Increas the flow with bioload. Add brisstle nose plecos.

That is the plan. Is the plan sound?


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Welcome to APC!

The plan sounds good! The only suggestion I have is skip the bone and blood meal, you don't need that much fertility. It is good that you have a plan to reduce the flow from that pump. You probably will not need that much circulation.

Please post some photos.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Watch out for the pleco. They can dig and its a mess in a dirt tank.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Thanks. The pump is definitely to strong. I started the pump to check circulation. Instant mud pool.🤔 Stirred up fine silt. I will give it some time to settle, if not a smaller water change. When it clears up, I can start planting.


Michael said:


> Welcome to APC!
> 
> The plan sounds good! The only suggestion I have is skip the bone and blood meal, you don't need that much fertility. It is good that you have a plan to reduce the flow from that pump. You probably will not need that much circulation.
> 
> Please post some photos.


For the surface area and flow if 7cm per minute I only need 1,500 liter per hour size pump. Yeah, rather use a smaller pump than try to reduce the flow if this one.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

SchalkR said:


> For the surface area and flow if 7cm per minute I only need 1,500 liter per hour size pump. Yeah, rather use a smaller pump than try to reduce the flow if this one.


Yes, for filtration and circulation we usually want a flow rate of two to three times the total volume per hour.

I'll respectuflly disagree with mistergreen about the bristlenose plecos. I have them in several tanks. As long as they have some suitable caves, they don't dig significantly.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Michael said:


> I'll respectuflly disagree with mistergreen about the bristlenose plecos. I have them in several tanks. As long as they have some suitable caves, they don't dig significantly.


I had one that loved sand. It moved sand into a mound in a corner. I gave it rocks for caves and it moved sand out of the cave as well.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

@SchalkR - what would be the smallest tank I could breed cichlids?


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

mistergreen said:


> I had one that loved sand. It moved sand into a mound in a corner. I gave it rocks for caves and it moved sand out of the cave as well.


Thank you for sharing. Poor Bristle nose will have a hard time moving the pebbles around. I know they love there pieces if drift wood. Knibble the wood as well. They fortunately don't grow large and potential might knibble on plants. But I plan to have lots of plants.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

johnwesley0 said:


> @SchalkR - what would be the smallest tank I could breed cichlids?


African Cichlids? Very territorial. With just a trio I would guess about 200 liter. And plenty of hiding spaces, especially for the babies. My best success was to remove the mom. If she release the babies I remove her and raise the babies seperately (80 liter cube) Got about 20 per batch. I let them grow fairly big before putting them back. Better survival rate.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Michael said:


> Yes, for filtration and circulation we usually want a flow rate of two to three times the total volume per hour.
> 
> I'll respectuflly disagree with mistergreen about the bristlenose plecos. I have them in several tanks. As long as they have some suitable caves, they don't dig significantly.


Yip. Gave up and drained the water. I will also add a seperator between substrate and filter sponge. Japanese mat work quite well. Good stiffness and large pores. Won't need maintenance for a year ir more.

All responses welcome. Fresh perspectives reveals things I have missed. This will be my first large planted tank. Had some success with 160 liter tank. Dreaded hair algae made things difficult. I am impressed with snails and shrimps cleanup crew. 

Looking at adding red ramshorn and golden apple snails. Malaysian trumpet tend to turn everything over. I rather have black worms dig the substrate. They double up as live food for guppies. Controlling the population.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

My study nano tank. Definitely not a shortage of snails. Shrimp culling is w bit tricky. I know males are less colourful. They are breeding well, maybe I should not mess with them until they get to much?


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Closeup, not so clear on the previous photo. Are the transparent brown greenish ones the "undesirable" ones reverting back to the natural shrimp colour? Good cleaners, but babies will probably become guppy live food. Population control.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

SchalkR said:


> View attachment 74437
> 
> 
> My study nano tank. Definitely not a shortage of snails. Shrimp culling is w bit tricky. I know males are less colourful. They are breeding well, maybe I should not mess with them until they get to much?


Looks like a fun, healthy tank! 
Breeding shrimp is tricky. I would hold off on the culling until you get a big population going or you are forced to reduce their numbers.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

More like a straw colour. This seems like a male with the slender body and long whiskers?


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

dwalstad said:


> Looks like a fun, healthy tank!
> Breeding shrimp is tricky. I would hold off on the culling until you get a big population going or you are forced to reduce their numbers.


I won't touch it then  Don't mess with something that works. Initially I had berried females, but no babies. I had a tiny pump on the sponge. It failed and I put in an airstone. Then babies followed.

The substrate is just pumise/vulcanic rock from expensive ADA filter material that did not work. Plant, wood, shells. Ultra low tech. Prune plants, feed shrirmp, top up with rain water.(drip method not to kill shrimp)

Like you say, puts fun into having an aquarium. A nice distraction when I am working watching the shrimps and snails.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Egeria densa jungle in this corner. Val at the back. Keep skimming the film forming ontop. Looks like fine scoria dust. A few red ramshorn snail went in as well.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

SchalkR said:


> African Cichlids? Very territorial. With just a trio I would guess about 200 liter. And plenty of hiding spaces, especially for the babies. My best success was to remove the mom. If she release the babies I remove her and raise the babies seperately (80 liter cube) Got about 20 per batch. I let them grow fairly big before putting them back. Better survival rate.


Just placed an order for a 50 gallon acrylic tank. It will be my first attempt at a Walstad tank with an all-dirt substrate which means I will be a bigger pest with questions than ever!


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

johnwesley0 said:


> It will be my first attempt at a Walstad tank with an all-dirt substrate


This is probably getting off-topic for this thread, but aren't cichlids hard to keep in a dirted tank? I've never kept them before but my understanding was that they dig a lot, eat plants or something.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

yeah, African lake cichlids are plant-eaters too. Certain cichlids like Apistogramma, angelfish, and kribs are fine in a planted tank.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

jatcar95 said:


> This is probably getting off-topic for this thread, but aren't cichlids hard to keep in a dirted tank? I've never kept them before but my understanding was that they dig a lot, eat plants or something.


I'm not going to go overboard. No immediate plans for crypts or sword plants. Just some old-fashioned stem plants like cabomba and maybe some elodea. I'll rely on vals and sags for root plants. If they get devoured, i won't be out much coin. I have some experience with rams (are they members of the _Apistogamma_ family?) and I don't remember them being that big a headache. I have an anubias that could use a new home; I can't imagine those leaves being easy to chomp on. The brand new lotus sprout is my main worry.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

I don't plan to have African Cichlids in the Walstad tank. They bulldoze and rescape the entire bottom. Crushed coral sand works best. You will just have a muddy mess with AC's. Vallisneria and floating hornswort might work. You found them in lake Malawi.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

This is how the build nests. They will try to turn your aquarium substrate into this. Then drive all fish away from the nest. In the confines of a aquarium it turns into a disaster quickly. You can't change their behaviour, it's born into them.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

I keep a colony of _Julidochromis regani _in a Walstad tank. As long as they have plenty of rock work and caves, they don't cause any problems with plants or substrate.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

SchalkR said:


> View attachment 74439
> 
> 
> More like a straw colour. This seems like a male with the slender body and long whiskers?


 The photographed shrimp looks like my Yellow Neocaridina. I wonder if you have a mixture of various color morphs of Neocaridina. It's probably not a bad way to start out with shrimp. It's more interesting and the genetic heterozygosity makes them healthier.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Michael said:


> I keep a colony of _Julidochromis regani _in a Walstad tank. As long as they have plenty of rock work and caves, they don't cause any problems with plants or substrate.


Yes, Lake Tanganyikan cichlids are fine with plants. (It's the Lake Malawi cichlids that will destroy plants-- and often each other--forthwith.) I have kept Julies, Lamprologous lelupi, and even Tropheus dubosi in planted tanks. The bigger Tanganyikans sometimes took offense at a large Swordplant, but I put stones around the plants to protect them from digging. The intelligence and personality of Tanganyikans makes them interesting and fun to keep.

Attached is picture of a 45 gal planted tank in which I housed a colony of T. duboisi (2 males and 6 females) for several years. High maintenance but lots of personality! Females need caves for protection from the males (I used sections of plumbing tubes for each female). Each male guarded one end of the tank.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

dwalstad said:


> The photographed shrimp looks like my Yellow Neocaridina. I wonder if you have a mixture of various color morphs of Neocaridina. It's probably not a bad way to start out with shrimp. It's more interesting and the genetic heterozygosity makes them healthier.


They have a story. I bought 75 of them from a breeder as culls for AUS$30. They were frustrating her because they were breeding fast, and survived snail poison. She wanted to remove excessive snails and didn't care about the culls. They are strong little critters and survived all that.
I wanted to breed them as food for my African Cichlids. I thought the culls would be dull. But they had brilliant colors, so they became new pets. 
Some of them are native colors, but the majority have strong colors, including new babies. They are yellow, orange, red, brown and black. Some have stripes on their back, narrow, broad, light, dark. 
Of course, I am not knowledgeable on shrimp colors and genes. But they do have very interesting colors and patterns.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

The orangy one is the biggest. Almost 2cm total length. Below the feeding container is a dark bluish one too.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

SchalkR said:


> View attachment 74452
> 
> The orangy one is the biggest. Almost 2cm total length. Below the feeding container is a dark bluish one too.





SchalkR said:


> They have a story. I bought 75 of them from a breeder as culls for AUS$30. They were frustrating her because they were breeding fast, and survived snail poison. She wanted to remove excessive snails and didn't care about the culls. They are strong little critters and survived all that.
> I wanted to breed them as food for my African Cichlids. I thought the culls would be dull. But they had brilliant colors, so they became new pets.
> Some of them are native colors, but the majority have strong colors, including new babies. They are yellow, orange, red, brown and black. Some have stripes on their back, narrow, broad, light, dark.
> Of course, I am not knowledgeable on shrimp colors and genes. But they do have very interesting colors and patterns.


I think you got a bargain and a barrel of fun.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

The water parameters is:
pH 6.86
TDS 562
Temp 26.6 C
Ammonia 10 ppm
Nitrite 0.1 ppm
Nitrate 0.0 ppm
Snails are still alive. Black worms died in the post, awaiting a new batch. Guppies are in the quarantine tub. Dark turquoise Moscow guppies. One died in the mail, two males and three females. And already a bunch of babies. Chucked in a bunch of horns wort for the babies to hide.
Instead of Neon's I opted for fish that are small and better fit for our local water supply. (pH 7.5) I want a flock of about 200 adult guppies. And the turquoise Moscow guppies are very colorful, from mouth to end of tail.
Egeria densa have not started growing yet, wisteria grew about 3 cm, vals always grow. Guppy grass is disappointing. I will give them time.
Substrate keep on bubbling. Water tannin stains slowly. I swapped a noisey pump with a Fluval 4 internal filter I got with the tank. Obsolete, but I think about 1000 lph. (14W motor). The slight water movement seems to prevent the surface film buildup.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Patients is the key. Although I want to see things happening. Just keep an eye on it and wait 😏😁


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

I'm surprised the guppy grass isn't thriving. It becomes a pest in my tanks, LOL.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Michael said:


> I'm surprised the guppy grass isn't thriving. It becomes a pest in my tanks, LOL.


Exactly. I paid AUS$10 for 4 pieces 10cm long. I expected 10 pieces 20cm long at least. Hopefully in time they will start growing. I bargain on them to become a significant space filler. A safe haven for fries. So that my 5 guppies can become 200....


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

I have a question on chemistry. 
CaCl2(aq) + 2NaHCO3(aq) → CaCO3(s) + 2NaCl(aq) + H2O (aq) + CO2(g) or NaHCO3(s) + CaCl2(s) + H2O(l) ---> CaCO3(s) + CO2(g) + NaCl(aq) + HCl(aq)
If I add bicarb to increase pH, and I add clcium chloride to increase calcium, I end up with some byproducts. It would cause an increase in salt (sodium chloride)
The increase in pH is for the guppies and cherry shrimp. Calcium is for the cherry shrimp and ramshorn snails.
Or is it better just to add some shells or coral for buffering the pH?


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

SchalkR said:


> Or is it better just to add some shells or coral for buffering the pH?


From my experience, the latter. Adding ingredients directly to the water column in order to change PH is a losing game. Also, aren't guppies pretty flexible in their water requirements?


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

It's easier to buffer with shells & coral besides, the salt in sodium bicarbonate is small.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

johnwesley0 said:


> Also, aren't guppies pretty flexible in their water requirements?


Guppies are flexible. Snails and shrimps not so much. A pH between 7.5 and 8.0 was the norm for the tank before adding compost. Just want to steer the pH away from to acidic. Shells and coral then. Slow buffer that keeps the water pH stable.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Another question. What gas is bubbling up from the substrate? CO2 or hydrogen sulphide? Doesn't smell bad. Oh, and of course mosquitoes found a breeding spot. Their larvae is not my favourite aquatic animals.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

It's probably just air at this point. Seems too soon to be CO2 or H2S.

Wait, mosquito larvae? Where are you located again?


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

I am not familiar with guppy grass. I see I paid $32.35 and I feel ripped off. Is this real guppy grass? The picture I was sold and what I received and considering it's growing like a weed does not match with my expectations. For $4.62 a string I expected much more, I could have bought 3 amazon sword plants for that. Probably would be better off too.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

johnwesley0 said:


> It's probably just air at this point. Seems too soon to be CO2 or H2S.
> 
> Wait, mosquito larvae? Where are you located again?


Brisbane Australia. It's HOT.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

deleted by johnwesley.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

SchalkR said:


> Brisbane Australia. It's HOT.












It's cooling down from yesterday, come rain, wet this place down and cool it


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

SchalkR said:


> View attachment 74506
> 
> View attachment 74505
> 
> ...


It looks like guppy grass to me. 
From a quick Internet search, it looks like Brisbane has hard water. I would not assume that you need to increase water hardness unless the GH is below 6. Whatever, the GH, sea shells would not hurt.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

SchalkR said:


> View attachment 74506
> 
> View attachment 74505
> 
> ...


Looks like guppy grass to me, and it does grow like a weed. . .a super weed!


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Any other options that a large water change to get rid of tannins? It block light getting to the plants.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Filtration with activated carbon.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Lots of tannins. Roots are growing. Ammonia >10 ppm, nitrite > 2 ppm, nitrate >40 ppm, TDS 486, pH 6.86. Carbon in the filter, Purigen - but I think it is worn out.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

You wrote earlier, "I have two bags of organic potting soil, bone meal and blood, and three bags of black scoria as a the cap (5-10 mm)." 

That 5-10 mm gravel looks very inhospitable for plants--huge particle size. I recommend sand or 2-3 mm gravel. Gravel cover should be no more than 1 inch (2.5 cm). 

With those high nitrogen readings, it looks like you added too much bone and blood meal (high nitrogen content). Prepare to do water changes to bring N down.

For now, I would do an 80% water change and change the carbon. I would remove as much of that 5-10 mm gravel as possible and replace it with a thin (1/2 inch or 1 cm) layer of sand.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

The bottom is 2 by 5 feet. The bone and blood was a thin sprinkle along the middle. Very small compared to the total volume. About a two inch layer of garden soil on top of that. When I removed the scoria the potting soil was a very squishy foamy consistency releasing a ton of bubble as I pushed don on it to release the gas. Smells like methane-ish. Not hydrogen sulphide. The soil is now about one and a half inch thick.

Personally I don't like sand. Like clockwork they produce hydrogen sulphide and a brownish algae. In the African Cichlid tank I removed all the sand and used coral sand and crushed shells. Helps with high pH too. But a pH of 8 in a planted tank would nor work for the plants. Guppies, shrimps and snails would be happy. The reason I got the lava rock was because the hardware store were out of pebbles at the time. I read finer lava rock is great for plant roots, but then they use fert tablets and things. AQUALAVA VOLCANIC LAVA SUBSTRATE 7L OLIVER KNOTT THE ULTIMATE SUBSTRATE FOR SHRIMP One of Amano's first substrates. But, I don't like the chemicals so went for Diana's method instead. Not exactly right, but using garden soil (compost) as the nutrient rich substrate for roots.

I ran the ran the Hamburg filter with some pond starter bacteria thingies. The filter action can be regulated by changing the flow so they don't compete with the plants later on when I have good plant loading. The ammonia stayed high for almost three week. Nitrite and nitrate was zero. Now the filter is converting the excess ammonia to nitrite and nitrate. Off the scale of the testing kit. I added hornwort to help absorb the extra nitrogen.....they melted. I can find 4-6 mm rounded mini pebbles. Also black that it blend in with any remaining scoria, And a large water change that I tried to avoid. 500 liters is a lot of water. I can water the lawn. They should love the extra nutrient.

Now I have a lovely coffee brown mess  I will do all the changes first, running the pump outlet through filter wool to get the suspended fines. Then add some fresh water. Only half this time. Almost like a sort of dry start, less water for the light penetrate.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

I could not find any media of the appropriate size. So I got some pool filter media. Not to fine, not to coarse. Is part of the function of the sand to stop free exchange between water column and the soil? The huge gaps in scoria exchanged too freely? Still in process, I will post a photo when it is finished and clear. I read also somewhere that the wood chips is a longer term material that breaks down and extend the life of the soil? Is that true?


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

SchalkR said:


> I read also somewhere that the wood chips is a longer term material that breaks down and extend the life of the soil? Is that true?


By "life of the soil", they most likely are referring to its ability to produce CO2. They may be right. But, I also think that if the wood chips are buoyant enough to float, you're asking for trouble because then you have to bury them so deep in the substrate you run the risk that they become anaerobic.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

SchalkR said:


> Is part of the function of the sand to stop free exchange between water column and the soil?


No, the function of any cap is just to keep the soil from floating. It's purely an aesthetic value. After a few days, it's not even necessary.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Oops. Not pool filter sand. Zeolite. Pool sand filter media. https://hyclor.com.au/product/zeo-clor/ But they can absorb only so much amonia before becoming saturated. I like the particle size better than my previous failures. I even tried play sand. Small tank and it worked until my CO2 generator malfunctioned and dumped all the chemicals in the tank. When I got home every thing was dead. Plants and fish.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

What is CEC? Good, bad or ugly? 
Zeolite - any of various hydrous silicates of aluminum that are analogous in compostion to the feldspars. Contains either sodium or calcium or both of the type Na2O2.Al2O3.xSiO2.xH2O. Can act as ion-exchangers. Has high CEC.
Don't add salt. It will release the amonia absorbed by the zeolite.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

New topping still foggy. 1-3 mm grains. I will you a Shallow Start Method. And they probably get to emerged growth quickly. Plants will probably get more light than at 600 mm depth.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Particle size is perfect! Just make sure that the cap is only 1" (2.5 cm) deep--or less. If a gravel or sand cover is too deep, it will smother soil bacteria making the soil layer severely anaerobic, which causes all kinds of problems. The purpose of the gravel is simply to hold the soil in place. You may not even need a cover. Use as little gravel or sand as possible so that oxygen from the overlying water can diffuse into the soil layer.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Success. The water does not discolor so fast with tannins. Just got a couple of floating plants in to see the growth and will do a test before I add in the plants back. Haste will just ruin and melt the plants if the water parameters are to far away from the local tap water. Thickness is hard to say, it was very murky. But when I plant the plants I will see the depth. I guess about 1/2 to 1 inch, maybe a bit thicker at the back. Got my smaller pump and will reduce the volume of the matten filter. Plants will filter when they are more mature by the sheer plant biomass. Then at some point the number of fish will grow and maybe not so sparsely populated. And I can simply switch the filter off when not required. The plan is to grow a moss wall on the filter surface. Like in some Dutch aquariums. I am style contemplating the aquascape style. Somewhere between Dutch and Jungle.The key is low maintenance. I must be for enjoyment, not constant labor to try and keep the balance. Dutch for contrast in color and shape. Jungle for not so needly trimmed as Ducth. And low tech plant not requiring tons of light and high levels of CO2.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Filter wool doing it's magic removing silt. Purigen should arrive soon. Just going to put it in a bag inside a internal filter. Fluidising is just to hard. Good one minute, the next all blowen into the tank.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Remind me, what's fluidising again?


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

johnwesley0 said:


> Remind me, what's fluidising again?


You put the Purigen in a 80mm diameter cylinder about 500mm high. The flow direction is upward, against gravity. At the correct flow rate, the Purigen beads expand and float in the upward water current. (Fluidise, beads move like a fluid suspended in the water) If the mass change for any reason, this balancing point change. ( Heavy sink, light floats) If lighter in this case, the Purigen beads get carried upward in the water current and blown out in the tank. I add my control valve on the inlet, so that the cylinder is not pressurised and leaking. Just when you think you set the flow rate just right, the fluidised bed goes all over the place. So now they stay in a bag, not going anywhere.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Like this


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

I imagine either method beats making an 80% water change.

I recently went through a similar calculus when purchasing a simple liquid water conditioner. So many of them include chemicals designed to "ionize" the different nitrogen by-products. I've read that the results may actually throw off your testing parameters insofar as soil nutrients are concerned. Any thoughts on that?

EDIT: And, I guess the more obvious question from a Walstad tank perspective is, if you eliminate all traces of ammonia and nitrate from an aquarium through use of Purigen, what's left for the plants?


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

johnwesley0 said:


> And, I guess the more obvious question from a Walstad tank perspective is, if you eliminate all traces of ammonia and nitrate from an aquarium through use of Purigen, what's left for the plants?


My understanding of these products is that they temporarily bind to ammonia and nitrate so it's not immediately harmful to your tank inhabitants. I think after some time it becomes available again.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

jatcar95 said:


> And, I guess the more obvious question from a Walstad tank perspective is, if you eliminate all traces of ammonia and nitrate from an aquarium through use of Purigen, what's left for the plants?
> 
> My understanding of these products is that they temporarily bind to ammonia and nitrate so it's not immediately harmful to your tank inhabitants. I think after some time it becomes available again.


It works similar to activated carbon. I use it for tannins mainly. 500 ml of Purigen in a 600 liter tank, will have a lesser effect than the 30 kg zeolite substrate. The idea is that I choose root feeding plants, and some water column feeders. The zeolite will become saturated, and I hope the absorbed ammonia will then be available to the plant roots. I don't quite get the high CEC and if the roots are able to win the fight with the zeolite. But then they have about 40 kg of potting soil to suck nutrients from. 

Seachem - Purigen gives a desription of what the product do. In my experience it keep the water crystal clear despite using wood in the aquarium. Fluidising probably are more efficient with more constant contact surface and self cleaning. But blowing it out in the aquarium loose the advantage or recharging the Purigen.

And again, its not a permanent solution. I simply remove the Purigen once tank once the tank stabilized. 500 liter water changes is not desirable.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Good luck!


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

I might have misread Diana's book, beside the sciency stuff, but it's about exploring new ways to make planted tanks fun, achievable and affordable. How many people before Diana thought of putting garden soil in an aquarium? So is the spirit of her book to follow another regimented process, or to make new discoveries putting fun and joy into aqua scaping? I am not a biologist, I am an engineer. So my approach is a bit different. That is why I share it here. And I do appreciate all the help from Diana and other members.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

A bit of history of the tank itself. My previous 1.8 m by 1 meter high cracked from top to bottom in the glass bend on the corner. High stress area. So I got this one for $AU100. It was old. Within a week the bottom seam ripped out. So I resealed it with silicone sealer. Half the tank was in the sun, half in the shade, and from the thermal stress the bottom glass shattered while I was watching it. A slow eerie sound as the cracks propagate from front to back. Not very encouraging. So I got some leftover house ceramic tiles, cut them to size and silicone them into the bottom. I use some self leveling cement to ensure the bottom is absolutely even, one inch polystyrene sheet to make sure there is no pressure points anywhere on the bottom. A new tank of that size is just silly money. Even buying the glass and build it myself will cost five times as much. African cichlids are beautiful, but high maintenance. The little buggers just want to kill each other all the time. So this time, I am building a natural low maintenance "eco" system...with a little bit of help until it's in balance.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

SchalkR said:


> African cichlids are beautiful, but high maintenance. The little buggers just want to kill each other all the time.


I'm beginning to see what you mean. It also doesn't help that they seem to be in constant heat! My tiny _a. borelli _have been in residence less than a week and are already paired up and (two males and two females) and conducting search and destroy missions against each other. I've had to take the regrettable step of introducing a divider into the tank. I've given the beach house property to the alpha male and female and supplied a condo for the smaller, less aggressive pair.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

johnwesley0 said:


> I'm beginning to see what you mean. It also doesn't help that they seem to be in constant heat! My tiny _a. borelli _have been in residence less than a week and are already paired up and (two males and two females) and conducting search and destroy missions against each other. I've had to take the regrettable step of introducing a divider into the tank. I've given the beach house property to the alpha male and female and supplied a condo for the smaller, less aggressive pair.


I over populated the tank with 5 species and about 80 fish. The Red Empress are absolutely stunning. I had a 100 liter external filter with an elephant ear plant about 1 meter high. Water parameter remained perfect. And then they get territorial. Rip up the substrate, coral sand everywhere chasing all the fish....till they die. Some even attempt to jump out of the tank to escape the attacks. I guess different people have different experience with them. Mine wasn't great. Planted tank with snails, shrimps and guppies here we come. Moscow's are beautiful guppies. The bright metallic shine is stunning.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Success. Water parameters 0.5 ppm Amonnia, 2.0 ppm nitrite, 10 ppm nitrate.

My brand new Eheim Compact 2000 from the USA spectacularly blew up. Fortunately my hand was not in the water. Arced and sparked and dipped the mains. Then I discovered it's a 60hz 120 volt pump, on a 50hz 220 Volt supply. That could have been very nasty.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Yeah, I had a volt/wattage mix-up myself recently. Nothing like your's, though. Glad you were not electrocuted.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

We have 220V supply in the States but it's only used for stoves & ovens.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

OK. My plant choices are Amazon sword, Rotala, Bocopa, Aponogeton Crispus, Wisteria and Egeria Densa. Chosen for a pH of 7.5, lowish light, no CO2, root feeders. And of course what locally available at a reasonable price. Just waiting for the silt to settle down after rearranging the filter. Not the engineering approach of maximum efficiency with available material. Bare bones that can be made asthetically pleasing. Function and form. The plants are in a bucket with a light. Forgot the Telanthera, already growing out of the water. 

The plan is a shallow depth of water, allowing the plants to root properly and grow out of the water. Then let the grow crazy. Then slowly start to fill the aquarium keeping some emerged. Lots of CO2 in the atmosphere. I checked the plants can grow emerged.

So I should get good growth, transitioning them slowly from emerged growth to submerged. And of course, emerged growth is free from algea. Bonus.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Next step is thinking about placement of the plants. Your ideas would be appreciated. I don't want to move plants later because they were to close together, plant in the foreground become to large or stuff like that. The water column is 600 mm deep (24 ") I want plants to grow big and bushy. Amazons should reach their potential 50cm, stem plants growing to the top. I started with a few plants, most can be trimmed and planted to get new plants. The some Dutch style, with contrasting green and red, different plant shapes and leave form, growing in clusters with some separation between them. But no frequent trimming. Mostly to get material for new plants to let them grow bushy.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Start out looking sparsely, then keep filling in.









But more tone down colors and more chaotic arrangements.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Scape It OK, my first idea given the full grown sizes of the plants. As it progress I will fill the foreground with crypts.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Top view. Need to tidy it up a bit. Purigen and filter wool works wonders. Crystal clear water. I will just close the top and leave it in peace so it can root and start to grow. Shallow water also means higher light levels. Grow plants, grow 😁


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Crystal clear. No trace of tannins or silt. Plants start to grow out of the water. Closed with cling wrap to keep moisture in. Plants are not melting. Occational bubbles from the substrate.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Plants start reaching for the sky. Nice and red out of the water. I hope the roots are doing the same thing reaching for the potting soil.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Purigen and filter wool is working hard. The brownish blob in te middle is filter wool catching silt. The tan blob at the bottom is Purigen. From cream to tan, sucking those tannins right out of the water.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Interesting.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Wisteria forest is happy. Swords make new lime green leaves. Snail population is a bit low, but they will catch up. Plenty of decaying plant matter to feed on.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Mid day sun measure 200,000 lux. 5cm from lights measure the same. Outside the tank at the water surface measure average 4,000 lux.
Slight brown algae growth on the front glass, 12 hours of lighting. No direct sunlight at the moment.
Will change the lighting later. One 36 watt led shop light, one 25 Watt led grow light, two 25 watt workshop lights.
Wisteria make lots of new leaves. Leave shape changed to submerged type. Some hair algae on the old sword leaves.
Dropped in 5 baby Guppies. Swimming around, very hard to see. Tiny compared to their environment. Not quite sure how to feed them best? About 200 liter of water in 0.6 by 1.5 meter surface. (2x5 foot)


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Wisteria forest is growing strongly.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Slow poke swords are get run over by algae. Time to get some algae shrimp.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

The side lighting colours on these platies is stunning. Light blue to emerald green. Plus the females are fully coloured too. I was just looking for comparable hardy fish for breaking in the tank. These beauties are keepers.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

The other swords are making a new runner! Lots of new leaves.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Beautiful platies!

I wonder if the Swords you planted were in their emergent form--the usual state for purchased plants. And that the new growth represents the submersed leaf form? The old emergent leaves are dying and as a result getting covered with algae.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Thanks ☺ One male, two females. Good trio to start with. Yeah, when I got the plants they had no sign of algae. Probably grown emerged. The snail are a good indicator of dead plants too. And upclose you can see the leaves dying off. The Wisteria transitioned well. Old emerged growth leaves full of algae, but lots of submerged leaves forming. Time and patience.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

One of the great plants would have been Cabomba. But some intelligent person seeded the waterways with the plant to harvest and sell in the aquarium trade. Instead it spread like wildfire through out the waterways. Result, the plant is now banned for trade in Australia.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Wow. I don't think I've ever seen cabomba in the wild.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Although there is plenty to go around, we can't touch it. Category 3. cabomba | Weed Identification – Brisbane City Council


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

That's crazy. I knew you were going to tell me it's native to the US where I've lived my whole life.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Now I have lovely duckweed. I will regret it. Nothing grows faster and comsume nitrogens. And you can make food out of it. In a vitamixer, add pollen, spread out and dry. Break in pieces and feed shrimp.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

The left hand side of tank is pretty bare. Hope you are planning to put some plants there. You could spread out the Wisteria on that side?
Also, picture indicates strong air/water mixing-- duckweed all bunched at one end and surface agitation at the top. Remember that air-water mixing removes CO2. Your plants may be okay the first couple weeks while soil is pumping out lots of CO2, but eventually this will stunt plant growth. 
You really don't need such strong water movement. I would reduce the pump's impact by either putting it on a timer and running it just a few hours at night, reducing flow rate 70%, or removing pump altogether.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

I am aerating it at the moment. The substrate bubbles like crazy and it smells like hydrogen sulfide. Rotten egg smell. My one platy got popeye, so I removed them again. I will test the water tomorrow again. Giant hygrophila is on its way for the left. I was thinking to add some Wisteria on the left too. Almost a U shaped tank layout with a bit of swimming space in the middle. Reserved for crypts. I think brown crypts. Some colour and leave shape contrasts. I like the idea of the filter on a timer. The nitrite and nitrate are still high. To high for fish. The filter will suck up the nitrites in the water column. What if I diffuce the pump outlet enough so that it doesn't remove the CO2? Gentle water movement in the tank but not stirring the water surface?


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

1 inch = 2.54 centimeters.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

The world of inches and gallons. And 120 volt mains. As an engineer I love to tinker. Sometimes too much.

I had in mind to use a random flow generator nozzle. It is jetting the water through a nozzle that suck in more water (venturi effect), but the original designer added fins for vortex shedding. The result was random vortex shedding. (3D print version on thingiverse)

Here is a demo of what it does. 




The idea is to create random flow below the water line so that there is no dead pockets of stagnant water. Once the tank stabilized with reasonable ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels I will only run the filter at night not to upset the natural CO2 cycle.


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## Aliceiii (11 mo ago)

SchalkR said:


> The world of inches and gallons. And 120 volt mains. As an engineer I love to tinker. Sometimes too much.
> 
> I had in mind to use a random flow generator nozzle. It is jetting the water through a nozzle that suck in more water (venturi effect), but the original designer added fins for vortex shedding. The result was random vortex shedding. (3D print version on thingiverse)
> 
> ...


An interesting idea! Thanks for sharing


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

I found one of these in my aquarium this morning. At first I thought, cute, more aquatic animals. Then I read it eats small fish and their bite sting like a wasp. Needless to so, it went out faster than it came in.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

SchalkR said:


> View attachment 74732
> 
> 
> I found one of these in my aquarium this morning. At first I thought, cute, more aquatic animals. Then I read it eats small fish and their bite sting like a wasp. Needless to so, it went out faster than it came in.


Water skater?


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## Aliceiii (11 mo ago)

SchalkR said:


> View attachment 74732
> 
> 
> I found one of these in my aquarium this morning. At first I thought, cute, more aquatic animals. Then I read it eats small fish and their bite sting like a wasp. Needless to so, it went out faster than it came in.


Careful, it can be dangerous for you or your fish


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Also called boatman. Their swimming looks like someone rowing a boat. I have mainly baby guppies in there. I would like to grow them out. Moscow's. Turquoise, but that is sometimes hard to see their colour. From light blue to almost purple depending on the light angle. Can't wait for the water parameters to settle down so I can add adults. I also have algae eating Darwin shrimp waiting. We can't import Amano shrimp. Unfortunately they can't breed in fresh water. They get about 2 inches or 5 cm long. Very transparent, you have to look carefully to see them.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

Aliceiii said:


> Careful, it can be dangerous for you or your fish


Funny how much I handled these as a kid in pools/lakes and whatnot. Never knew they could bite (and probably tried to convince people they were safe to handle with my infinite kid-wisdom). 

Would be interesting to maybe run a habitat designed around some of these. I wonder just how big of fish they would eat.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

They inject venom in their prey (the sting) that numb their pray. This one was bigger than my baby guppies, so I didn't let it hang around to find out. You get two types. Carnivorous or plant eaters. I can't tell the difference either. To be safe, gone bug. They can grow to 3 cm around here. Swimming Pool Tips


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Plants are growing, baby fish and snails are happy. Wisteria forest reaching halfway up the tank. Still waiting for giant hygro compacts to arrive. Bacopa's stopped melting and start to grow good leaves.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

These Swords are weird. They grow like Val. And of course the brown fluffy hair algae is annoying. Cleaning them up frequently.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I would consider temporarily lowering the water level by at least 50%. That will increase the light levels for your plants (e.g., Bacopa). It some of those plants could get their tops above water, you might see less algae and some _spectacular_ plant growth.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

OK. New arrivals are in. They look a bit pale. Must have been going around in the mail for a week. We had some serious floods. Ramshorn snail 🐌 look just about the right size. Visible but not intrusive. I also snipped the leggy plants and stuck them back in the substrate. There is no stopping the Wisteria, they really are taking off. Good, getting the biomass up to do some work.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Not my photo, before someone goes ballistic. I thought hygrophila corymbosa compact is kind of a green plant. Hopefully they show some green next to the alternantheras. Or I end up with a red corner over there.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

dwalstad said:


> I would consider temporarily lowering the water level by at least 50%. That will increase the light levels for your plants (e.g., Bacopa). It some of those plants could get their tops above water, you might see less algae and some _spectacular_ plant growth.


I can move my lights around, not fixed yet. I have a old DIY CO2 injection system. For a much smaller tank, but just a bit extra to the available CO2. Would that boost them a bit? I tried the lower the water level, but the plants are too flimsy. They keep falling over instead of growing out of the water.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

SchalkR said:


> They keep falling over instead of growing out of the water.


Mine did the same thing at first when I lowered the water level. After a couple days they were perked up though.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

jatcar95 said:


> Mine did the same thing at first when I lowered the water level. After a couple days they were perked up though.


After 3 weeks I gave up. They grow through the surface for a bit, then fall over. They haven't grown strong roots and the parts in the substrate start to melt. A few remaint strong. Another problem is they just addapted to submerged growth and formed new leaves. Wisteria is doing great. Maybe thr bacopa's are just slow growing and I expect to much? Rotala orange juice is doing well too.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Maybe a photo help. You see, thin stems with large leaves. In my next batch of plants I will get more stems.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Wisteria on the other hand almost reached the top (24 inches deep) Start to hide my ugly mat. Diana gave me a great idea. Manage algae by moving lights. I move the lights together for more light and growth on specific plants. Then if algae shows up, I move the lights to shaded spots were the algae subsided. Plants don't shrink, but algae do.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

I added a old DIY CO2 injection. For a 80 liter cube. And the plants are very responsive. 2 two liter yeast system. If the one is run down, the other one still produce. Bad idea to pressurise them. So now I connected the diffuser pump to the lights. When the pump goes off, if just release large bubbles that don't diffuse at night. Instead of counting bubbles I watch the fish behaviour. If they all hang around the surface, I agitate the surface more.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

I'm loving the wisteria forest. I think if my current stem plants don't work out I may try that...looks like it would be a great hiding spot for fry/shrimplets as well.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

The pale pinks have turned green. It's perculiar, with the bit of CO2 the algae seems to have decreased? Snail and shrimps are helping. And Guppies like to grace on it, but definitely less algae. And I didn't like the red substrate look. Used small pebbles and crushed shells from previous setup. Extra calcium and aim for a pH of 7.5. For plants and aquatic creatures alike.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Whole tank view. The target of 200 Guppies is going to be reached much faster than I expected 😳 Wisteria, Rotala and Bacopa's are starting to do well. Swords are sprawling all over the place. Giant hygro's are of the same family as Wisteria. Once they take off they will become a nice background filler. Once they achieve good size, definitely back off on CO2 and light. Don't want to maintain that rate of growth. I am just doing this because plants are expensive and to fill 2x5 foot substrate takes a lot of plants.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

22 inches high, 2 inches to go. Light, light CO2 and garden soil substrate. Fish are happy, Guppy babies everywhere. Moscow's are true cameleons. From lilac, to powder blue, to turquoise and sometimes the front half is almost black.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Chasing females, so not a focused shot. But you can see the colour. Between powder blue and turquoise, front body deep bluish purple to black. If the ligh shine through his tail almost rainbow colours.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

The ones still in the quarentine tank is deep turq


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

CO2 is diy yeast. Those pressure caps work beautiful. I need another for the gas seperator. About two bubbles per second. Diffuser is a small internal filter. The CO2 goes through a normal airstone into the inlet of the pump. Like a protein skimmer. Bubbles go from 2 mm to smaller than 0.5 mm. You really have to look hard to see the fine mist.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Are you still polishing your water?


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

johnwesley0 said:


> Are you still polishing your water?


Not continuously. For that I use a old Sunsun 304. Bottom trays got filter wool and top tray 500ml Purigen. Tannin are faintly visible. And if they built up I run the pump for a day or so to clear it up. From the colour it used about half capacity. If it stops being effective I will recharge it. Cheaper than charcoal and I can see when it's getting used up.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

The phone camera really struggle with white balance. Som I made this one BW. I added a fresh yeast mix. Bottle in a warm spot, so it pumps CO2. You can see the fine bubbles coming out of the little internal filter.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Almost at the top. Aerating for the hideous swamp gas H2S. I planted new plants and the substrate bubbles like crazy again. I also made fixtures for the lights shinning directly in the water. Much brighter. 3 by 25 watt LEDs. Amazon sword starting to make new leaves. Olive green with maroon spots. Shrimps are still hard to spot. They don't like being moved. The first batch of babies start to colour up. Didn't know Moscow's are so fertile. Not for the price they are going. I leave the momies to eat some of the babies. There are about a hundred, and 3 are far pregnant. You see the babies through their


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

SchalkR said:


> View attachment 74775
> 
> 22 inches high, 2 inches to go. Light, light CO2 and garden soil substrate. Fish are happy, Guppy babies everywhere. Moscow's are true cameleons. From lilac, to powder blue, to turquoise and sometimes the front half is almost black.


Looks great!


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

dwalstad said:


> Looks great!












Thanks. Water test zero for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Guppies are in. It's hard to get a picture of how pretty they really are. The blue metallic is reflected light, and they wave their tails all the time. None of them look identical with interesting variations. The ones tail edge go white with dark blue dots on the edge. With a touch of red just behind his tummy. Some of the baby males start to get colour.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

You can see the eyes of the babies through the mothers skin.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Photographs does do their colors justice. In this shot you can see from turquoise to blue.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

These plants close their leaves at night. Giant hygro's.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

The females have faint colors. Not quite the fun tail shape. But I am not a breeder, I like variety.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

I just assumed the bubbles from the substrate are H2S. Or is it CO2 and CH4?


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

CO2 doesn't have an odor. If the tank water just smells bad, it may not be a gas so much as the bacteria itself giving off a smell. H2S has a very distinctive rotten egg smell.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

I have changed from a 13 hour photo period, to 9 hours with a 4 hours siesta in the middle. It might be other factors, but the plants seems to grow broader and more redder leaves. They almost seem to grow faster with a siesta light regime. ? During siesta the CO2 injection is also off. Yeast still going steady at 2 bubbles per second. For the size of the tank that is not much. Giant hygro leaves are getting bigger.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

And this Amazon Sword is not growing as expected at all. It became a carpeting plant???


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

SchalkR said:


> View attachment 74834
> 
> 
> And this Amazon Sword is not growing as expected at all. It became a carpeting plant???


I've seen this before. I believe @jatcar95 is getting similar results with his amazon swords.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

johnwesley0 said:


> I've seen this before. I believe @jatcar95 is getting similar results with his amazon swords.


Hmm, not me. My swords are still pretty new so they haven't started spreading, but so far are just growing up. 

Could be you got the a mis-identified sword plant? I could see someone selling a plant as "amazon sword" when it's really a micro sword or something similar.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

jatcar95 said:


> Hmm, not me. My swords are still pretty new so they haven't started spreading, but so far are just growing up.
> 
> Could be you got the a mis-identified sword plant? I could see someone selling a plant as "amazon sword" when it's really a micro sword or something similar.


I'm reminded of your swords at week #2 of your acrylic tank. I mistook the plants on the right foreground for _sag subulata_:
21G Acrylic NPT | Aquatic Plant Forum (aquaticplantcentral.com)


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Maybe they got a mix-up somewhere in there system.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Most peculiar. One of my old LED lamps chip died. So out of curiosity I got a burple grow chip. A 100 watt chip. There is no percievable increase in brightness together with a 25 watt cool light LED. I can see deeper reds. But the intensity appears to be the same.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

SchalkR said:


> View attachment 74840
> 
> 
> Maybe they got a mix-up somewhere in there system.


I discovered this when I was shopping for my tank, but there’s no single plant called “Amazon sword”. I got some Amazon swords with scientific name Echinodorus Amazonicus. I googled Echinodorus Grisebachii and it also comes up as Amazon Sword. I think Grisebachii is the more common variety to be called “Amazon sword”. But maybe they mixed up their swords, or else it is just growing smaller because of nutrients or light or some combination of factors.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

jatcar95 said:


> I discovered this when I was shopping for my tank, but there’s no single plant called “Amazon sword”. I got some Amazon swords with scientific name Echinodorus Amazonicus. I googled Echinodorus Grisebachii and it also comes up as Amazon Sword. I think Grisebachii is the more common variety to be called “Amazon sword”. But maybe they mixed up their swords, or else it is just growing smaller because of nutrients or light or some combination of factors.


Aha. This looks like a chain sword of sorts. It's OK, I have plenty of other tall plants. And they grow vigorously, more so than the crypts would have, I think. An evolving underwater garden.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Echinodorus Magdalenensis, very much like this.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Plants are growing well, algae under control. Got green hair algae, but I got a solution for that. Small bottle brush on a handle. Hook them, wind then up around the brush and pull them out. Just need to fit the blurple light. I will experiment on the effect it has on plants and algae. Plants grow fast, now I can trim and replant for more density.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Your hard work is paying off. I'm just now beginning to wrap my head around that "forest". That's enough plant life for about five or six 29 gallon tanks!


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

The idea of the forest was for baby Guppies and shrimp to survive. And to hide the matten filter. Fortunately there is some space left behind it to plant some cuttings. Plan and reality was a bit out of synch. There is about a hundred baby Guppies, and six very pregnant females. I will have to start selling the excess....


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Removed algae, trimmed plants, added wood and a moss rock. Moss rock still looks sad. Moss is a magnet for shrimp.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Out of nowhere they just appears. The Darwin shrimp infront is getting bigger. Once the moss established the glued lava rocks will dissapear. This is the Christmas tree moss. They make awesome structured layers.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Australia. I learn something every day.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Feeding my secret stach of shrimps. They will be ready in about two months to add to the tank. I can't count them anymore. Lots of babies.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Close up of the bottom. About a third of them. Just lots.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Rotala orange juice is getting nice colours.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Overall growth is coming along nicely. I am happy with the results.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Wow. What a change!


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

johnwesley0 said:


> Wow. What a change!


I changed my mind. I rather trim and sell overgrowth, than be frustrated with plants that doesn't want to grow


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

This seems like a flower of sorts?


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Blurple light does have an effect. It doesn't seem bright, but it is a 100 watt led.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

The Amazon Sword is quietly doing it's thing. Longest leave is about 20cm.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

SchalkR said:


> This seems like a flower of sorts?


Definitely! Which plant?


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

My venturi snapped. Fortunately at the low pressure point, so it suck on extra air. I will change the design to be stronger before I print another one. And tidy up the plumbing so it doesn't put forces on the ventury. I use it to scrub the water with air. Don't trust those vigorous bubbles from the substrate. So far plants and animals are healthy. A good stable point. Waiting for plants to reach a good mature biomass.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

dwalstad said:


> Definitely! Which plant?











I think it is Aponogeton Crispus. It looked like a great focus plant at the time 😁 Now it have to grow for dear life just to get a space.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

They make PVC venturi Tee fittings if you need something strong.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

mistergreen said:


> They make PVC venturi Tee fittings if you need something strong.


Thanks. I will have a look. This size fits into the 15mm pvc plumbing. I don't know why 15mm. The OD of the pipes is 21.4mm.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

This time I added 2mm outer wall thickness, and a mixer stage. Still to be tested, but similar to the Beckett foam nozzle they used in DIY protein skimmers. Forcing the jet of water mixing with air to flow around a sphere. That model actually produced very fine bubbles. Will see what this do. This was aimed at less restrictive flow...and may not make finer bubbles. But it will mix better.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

In the divergent exit cone I added a spherical mixing chamber with a mixing sphere inside. I also added an addition air inlet. The original did a good job of sucking in air, so no reason why this one should be different other than a bit of back pressure from the ball. But adequate cross sectional area for good flow in the mixing chamber, larger than the original diverging cone.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

OK, almost all the plants have reached the top. 2 feet. How will it look after a year? Lots of pruning....


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Air mixing uniform and flow good. Hard to see in the photo. Bubbles are spread evenly in the stream.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Are you injecting the co2 via the Venturi?


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

mistergreen said:


> Are you injecting the co2 via the Venturi?


Air. CO2 gets minced very fine. I use a normal airstone at the inlet of a small internal filter. Less than 0.5mm in diameter. See #126 bottom lower left corner.
It's not a lot of CO2. It's a 2 liter DIY yeast system, between one or two bubbles a second. To counteract my aerating. Oxygen for critters and off gassing bubbles from the substrate.
I scrub the water with air because I still have a ton of bubbles from the substrate. Hope it's not hydrogen sulfide. So far fish, shrimp and snails are healthy. Looooots of Guppy babies. Plants grow OK, so I assume CO2 is adequate.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

You've renewed my faith in stem plants!


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

johnwesley0 said:


> You've renewed my faith in stem plants!


😁 Once their roots get into the compost, they go nuts. Then snip and stick it back in the substrate. I won't add more species. The carpeting swords surprised me. Real estate is just shrinking fast.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Platy is as round as the Moscow females. Moscow females is between 4 to 5 cm. I would like to have some more platies .


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Baby Guppies go in swarms. Don't know the survival rate. They fetch good prices. I am glad I kept a high quality pure strain. The young males is getting stunning colours. Not clones of the parents, but all fully coloured metallic.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

New cuttings in the front. Of course, cleaning crew diligently busy, lots of red ramshorn snails to clean up dead plant material, left over food. Some of the cherry shrimp is getting big. Slowly working up their numbers. They are the most sensitive inhabitants of the tank.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Batch of shrimps going into the tank. It would be challenging for them to breed. But they surely get big in the tank. I didn't cull the brightest ones to yo back to the breeding tank. Beautiful blues, yellows, orange, red. People say they breed back to dull native colour. But these all seems very colourful, mixed breds. Great variety of colours. I hope they are able to have some surviving babies in the tank. That will be big healthy shrimps.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

This shrimp is huge.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

My jungle scape is getting there. Giant hygro's still need to fill in space on the left. Amazon Sword starts popping. I planted them Dutch style lanes. But they are very competitive growers. What lanes?


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

It's difficult to show depth in a flat photo. Here front to back is 2 feet. It's something you can only see with your own eyes.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Stitching photos to fit the whole tank in is still a work in progress.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

That is a sick tank (American teen lingo for "incredible!")


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

johnwesley0 said:


> That is a sick tank (American teen lingo for "incredible!")


Thanks, it went surprisingly well. Some teething problems at the start. Diana's book is a great help in troubleshooting things that go wrong. Most things have pro's and cons, and incrementally making good choices helps a lot. Thanks Diana for sharing you practical experiences in your book.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

I am not sure how much the snails ate versus the rest. Zucchini seems to be dissapearing well.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

I am also seeing more cherry shrimp. They seem to co-exist well with the Guppies.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Guppies, shrimp, and plants are such a nice combination. Eight of my 9 tanks have this combo with red and blue Neocaridina. The one problem tank has yellow shrimp that I am still trying to increase their population size. (I bought two separate populations last May.) I found it takes awhile for shrimp to adjust to my tank conditions and the "off and on" predation of guppies. I figure that the shrimp have to be smart and fit enough to avoid predation by the guppies.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

I breed the shrimps in a separate tank. Just shrimps, heater, floating plants and sponge filter. It took two months before they settled down. But then they thrived. Oh, and of course snails to clean up excess food.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Is this true? "The European flat leech preys on other, smaller worms, snails and midge larvae. This leech seems to be harmless for aquarium fish, shrimp and snails might be considered potential prey, though."
My sunsun was leaking air, again. So I fixed it. But overnight I ran the main filter outlet through filter outlet. It cleaned the foginess in the water, but caused a oxygen shortage.

A lot of snails on the front glass, fishes hanging around the surface. Then I saw the leeches. 1 cm bunches up, 3cm tretched out. I didn't want to touch them, so I cut them in half with a razor. 

But I am sure there are more of them and nimbers will increase. Is there a way to bait and trap them? Just leave thi so they control the snail population? There is no shortage of snails.

Then I have some Emerald Cories on the way. Apparently they won't hunt larger shrimp. As the rule goes, if it fits in their mouth, they will eat it. Hopefully other aquatic criters that made their way into the aquarium.

Balanced aquarium.....requires planning and thinking. And sometimes the unexpected shows up. All good fun. 😁


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Oh yeah, before you put you mouth in contact with aquarium equipment, make sure they are clean and check inside. Before I reconnected the ventury, I checked inside if it was not blocked. A visitor 🥴😰 A spider with a leg span of 4cm. If I stuck that in my mouth, it would have nowhere to go other than my mouth 🤢🤮 Nose, throat, who knows.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

I am running out of space......


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

At first about half of the cuttings died, so I didn't have high hopes for the Bacopa's. Now they are growing vigorously. Of course there is no stopping the Polysperma's. And the Giants just keep growing bigger leaves.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

I just have to say, watching this tank's progression has been astounding. I can't believe how lush and filled in it is! I will need to go back and take some notes on your setup...


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Some people have magic water.


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## maico996 (Nov 6, 2016)

mistergreen said:


> Some people have magic water.


Apparently I get my water from the Voldemort Water Company.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

maico996 said:


> Apparently I get my water from the Voldemort Water Company.


I need to add ferts and co2 for my plants to look that good.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

mistergreen said:


> I need to add ferts and co2 for my plants to look that good.


What I did was picking plants that take up nutrients primarily through there roots. There is two large bags of compost in the substrate It takes a while to get there roots in it, they do grow really lush.
I added a bit of CO2 because aerate the water for the fishes, shrimps and snails. Still not sure what the bubbles from the substrate is. If I stop the aeration the inhabitants are not happy, all hanging at the surface.
A simple 2 liter yeast DIY in tandem. I use an airstone at the inlet of a small internal filter. The filter is connected to the lights timer. When its on, fine mist. Off, large bubble going to the surface. I tried to block the CO2 line for an hour, thinking of a solenoid operation. That was a mistake. It build a lot of pressure and foam profusely.
I add once in two weeks 5ml of Potassium and iron to the 630 liter tank. In tank is also a bunch of small sea shells and crushed shells on the substrate. Mainly for the shrimp and snails. Initially I added two table spoons of Magnesium Sulfate on startup. That's it.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Bacopa's doing well, I pruned back the plants that crowd them from light. Caught a guppy with a flash, this time they are greenish. And a Darwin shrimp, got a kink in the back compared to cherry shrimps. Front glass needs cleaning.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

After some vigorous pruning. Some spots are now open for the right plants to grow into. The lower bottom Val needs to come out and be replanted in the left back corner. They spreading to fast in the wrong direction.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

I find it after a while like a few months, I need to replant my stems. The bottom half looks weak, losing leaves, covering in algae. I cut off the healthy part and pull out the weak part and replant.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Like I said earlier, I'm rethinking my attitude toward stem plants. They're obviously better at taking nutrients from the water column which is where it predominates after a few months. In my glass tank, algae has become an unexpected problem even though it is not in direct sunlight for more than 15 minutes a day. I'm going to one of the few places I know where the plants have been grown submersed. One of the perks of living in New York City!


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

There is a lot of nutrients in my substrate. If they start to wear out, I have seen slow release fertiliser for ponds. But again, I think less is more when it comes to fertiliser. Initially I had some algae. But I focused on plants growing faster than the algae covering them. When I added the bit of CO2, plants did grow faster. I also reduced light from 13 hours to 9 hours with 4 hours siesta in the middle. Lights are relatively low. I have 3 by 25 Watt led work lights. I added a 100 watt blurple chip to an old 30 watt led lamp that failed. It doesn't seem intense at all. Weaker than a 25 watt cool white led. But plants seem to grow under it. Oh, I do have hair algae. But that is easy to take care of. Small bottle brush on a stick. Hook them and pull them out.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Finally! The milky white fog cleared up.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Beautiful tank! I also see some very lovely guppies. Nice to see...


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

dwalstad said:


> Beautiful tank! I also see some very lovely guppies. Nice to see...


Thank you Diana, the Moscow's are beautiful. The young males have strong colours. And a constant supply of babies ☺ With all the plants is hard to see them. It needs some pruning so the light can get to all the plants.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

The babies have grown and coloured up.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Snail and shrimps scavenging about.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Bristle nose Pleco's. Eating holes in the plants. Fortunately there is a lot of plants.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Shrimp found treasure and hold on for dear life.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Hitching a ride, squabbling over food.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Jungle needs a trim.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Shrimps are definitely more visible everywhere.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

You've got a super successful tank--shrimp, snails, high-quality guppies, beautiful plants. Obviously, you know what you are doing and salute you for your accomplishment.
Nice to see such beautiful guppies. Not to be _too_ competitive  , here's photos of some of my guppies. Six month old males and the dam (15-month-old female) that's still producing big batches every 30 days. Assorted vibrant colors and longevity are what I'm selecting for. Now conducting experiments with male fertility. It's fun!


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Thank you Diana. A lot of the success is your book and your advice.









This angle of lighting is not the best. They really shine with side lighting. All healthy doing their thing.
You have some very colourful Guppies Diana 🤩 I learnt now that Guppies breed like Guppies do, and if you start with high quality Guppies they grow really stunning.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

I just noticed I got more hole eaters!! Where did this baby bristle nose Pleco come from???









I wonder how many there are??


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Cherry shrimp grow really big and fat.









I like this tank. A bit messy but full of surprises.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

I mean really messy. I will trim tomorrow so that the bottom plants get more light.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Congratulations on the newborn pliecos! Further evidence that Walstad tanks make excellent breeder tanks.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Still hazey, trimmed back the Wisteria forest, and replanted with cuttings.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Cuttings are growing. Not quite the seperation of a Dutch style. More becoming a Jungle style, in more than one way.


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## obcabathory (Dec 17, 2021)

SchalkR said:


> View attachment 75142
> 
> 
> Cuttings are growing. Not quite the seperation of a Dutch style. More becoming a Jungle style, in more than one way.


Hey, your tank is AWESOME.
Do you know what variety of white platy fish this is?


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

obcabathory said:


> Hey, your tank is AWESOME.
> Do you know what variety of white platy fish this is?


Kinda blue, but not Mickey mouse. Thanks.


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