# Help me set up a non-CO2 tank



## modster (Jun 16, 2007)

Hi, after an algae disaster with my first tank, I want to set up my second tank with as much hand-holding as possible. So I have decided to follow Tom Barr's non CO2 method. I have read his articles a couple of times, but I am still confuse about several points. (probably a stupid question) Dose his method works on any plant? He said "DW does not suggest dosing, but adding 2-3 things once a week or two, certainly is not that tough???? the plants do gain a lot and then you can grow most any plant in a non CO2 tank." This really lead me to think his method would work for high light plants, like HC. I love HC and it would be great if i can grow it in a low light condition. 

Anyways, my new tank will be a 29 gallon and I am planning to use aqua soil. Ideally I would want a 60watt light, but I havent found a light with the right size yet. Should I get CF or linear T5? Any advise on plant selections and how to start the cycle? Thanks in advance.


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## modster (Jun 16, 2007)

bump... please?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I think the best way to start almost any tank is to put a very thin layer of ground peat on the bottom, add a cupful or so of mulm from an existing tank or filter, add the substrate, put a little water in it, set out the plants and hardscape, and finish filling it. For a non-CO2 tank, plan on dosing only once a week, or dividing that dose into 7 smaller doses and dosing every day. Tom recommended using Equilibrium as a trace mix for such tanks, instead of a regular trace mix. Then, if you dose Excel at the Seachem recommended dosage you should be able to do very well with most plants, if you use about 2 watts per gallon, less with T5 bulbs.

I'm doing that now with a 10 gallon, but it is much too soon to talk about success or failure on it.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Hi, Modster,

Another approach to a non-CO2 tank is to use a soil substrate. This avoids dosing (usually) and excessive maintenance, and still can produce great plant growth.

Check out the "El Natural" forum here at APC, particularly the stickies.

Good luck!

Bill


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## bencozzy (Jun 2, 2006)

i have a el natural set up and will testify to its powers to grow plants. super easy to set up and maintain.

i used soil master select as my cap substrate and peat humus for the soil.


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## modster (Jun 16, 2007)

El Natural sounds pretty good. I will do more reading first before i decide.

What about HC? Is it possible to start with high tech to grow the HC and then swtich to low tech so I have a nice carpet of HC in a low tech tank? By low tech, I mean 65watt cf over a 29gallon tank with no CO2.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Obviously, I cannot generalize my 5 gallon natural planted tank and Tom Barr 5 gallon low tech non-c02 injected tank to what would happen in a 29 gallon. But for what its worth and if it is any indication, I can honestly tell you that I am amazed and shocked at the rate of plant growth and this is coming from someone who is critical of Tom Barr and does not always believe everything Tom Barr states. Anyway, in the Tom Barr setup I used a layer of peat, leonardite, and mulm capped with Seachem Onyx sand. I fertilize once a week with nitrates, potassium, and equilibrium. And daily with Seachem Excel. The plant growth is phenomenal and has exceeded all my expectations. I have to prune weekly to keep the plant growth from choking out the tank. Tom stated that the plants should grow 2-5X slower than a high tech c02 injected tank. Believe it or not, but compared to my high tech 10 gallon, plant growth in the Tom Barr type low tech tank seems to be much more rapid. I set up a similiar 3 gallon nano at work using Tom Barr recommendations for low tech. The only difference is I decided to test with a cap of Tahitian Moon Sand instead of Seachem Onyx Sand. Growth in that tank is also beginning to explode, although it took longer than the 5 gallon with the Seachem Onyx Sand, and unlike the 5 gallon Seachem Onyx Sand based one, the 3 gallon Tahitian Moon Sand one has developed a case of diatom algae, but it is not too bad. Other than that, there is no other algae in either tank. The peppered cory catfish and whitecloud minnow in the 3 gallon seem to be doing fine and the 2 dwarf african aquatic frogs, 2 amano shrimp and one whitecloud minnow in the 5 gallon seem to be doing fine. No problems with the Betta in the Diana Walstead type Natural Tank either and that tank is also doing well although plant growth is much slower.

You can check out the details of my tanks and setup at: http://azdhan.googlepages.com/thelostworld2


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

modster said:


> El Natural sounds pretty good. I will do more reading first before i decide.
> 
> What about HC? Is it possible to start with high tech to grow the HC and then swtich to low tech so I have a nice carpet of HC in a low tech tank? By low tech, I mean 65watt cf over a 29gallon tank with no CO2.


You can start the tank as an emersed growth tank of HC, then, when the HC carpet is thick enough to satisfy you, fill the tank and treat it as a non-CO2 tank. I'm not sure that HC will do well without CO2 though. You could substitute the easier to grow HM http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...ails.php?id=33&category=genus&spec=Hemianthus.


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## modster (Jun 16, 2007)

Homer_Simpson said:


> Obviously, I cannot generalize my 5 gallon natural planted tank and Tom Barr 5 gallon low tech non-c02 injected tank to what would happen in a 29 gallon. But for what its worth and if it is any indication, I can honestly tell you that I am amazed and shocked at the rate of plant growth and this is coming from someone who is critical of Tom Barr and does not always believe everything Tom Barr states. Anyway, in the Tom Barr setup I used a layer of peat, leonardite, and mulm capped with Seachem Onyx sand. I fertilize once a week with nitrates, potassium, and equilibrium. And daily with Seachem Excel. The plant growth is phenomenal and has exceeded all my expectations. I have to prune weekly to keep the plant growth from choking out the tank. Tom stated that the plants should grow 2-5X slower than a high tech c02 injected tank. Believe it or not, but compared to my high tech 10 gallon, plant growth in the Tom Barr type low tech tank seems to be much more rapid. I set up a similiar 3 gallon nano at work using Tom Barr recommendations for low tech. The only difference is I decided to test with a cap of Tahitian Moon Sand instead of Seachem Onyx Sand. Growth in that tank is also beginning to explode, although it took longer than the 5 gallon with the Seachem Onyx Sand, and unlike the 5 gallon Seachem Onyx Sand based one, the 3 gallon Tahitian Moon Sand one has developed a case of diatom algae, but it is not too bad. Other than that, there is no other algae in either tank. The peppered cory catfish and whitecloud minnow in the 3 gallon seem to be doing fine and the 2 dwarf african aquatic frogs, 2 amano shrimp and one whitecloud minnow in the 5 gallon seem to be doing fine. No problems with the Betta in the Diana Walstead type Natural Tank either and that tank is also doing well although plant growth is much slower.
> 
> You can check out the details of my tanks and setup at: http://azdhan.googlepages.com/thelostworld2


how much peat and leonardite should i add? Can i replace onyx sand with aquasoil (that I have already bought)?


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

modster said:


> how much peat and leonardite should i add? Can i replace onyx sand with aquasoil (that I have already bought)?


If you have aquasoil, it should work just as well or better. Most people use aquasoil alone and get excellent results. Others layer some mulm before capping with aquasoil. I just bought some ADA Amazonian II and ADA power sand for experimental purposes for a new 15 gallon high tank that I will be setting up. In that one, I am going to layer the bottom with ADA power sand before capping with Aquasoil II. If you want to go with the peat/leonardite/mulm and seachem combo, I did 1/2 inch of leonardite, sprinkled it with a light dusting of garden peatmoss, and added some mulm from the filter of an established tank. Total was 1/2 inch. I capped this with about 2-2.5" of Seachem Onyx Sand.


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## modster (Jun 16, 2007)

Homer_Simpson said:


> If you have aquasoil, it should work just as well or better. Most people use aquasoil alone and get excellent results. Others layer some mulm before capping with aquasoil. I just bought some ADA Amazonian II and ADA power sand for experimental purposes for a new 15 gallon high tank that I will be setting up. In that one, I am going to layer the bottom with ADA power sand before capping with Aquasoil II. If you want to go with the peat/leonardite/mulm and seachem combo, I did 1/2 inch of leonardite, sprinkled it with a light dusting of garden peatmoss, and added some mulm from the filter of an established tank. Total was 1/2 inch. I capped this with about 2-2.5" of Seachem Onyx Sand.


Cool! i will let you know how it turn out!


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

modster said:


> Cool! i will let you know how it turn out!


I forgot to mention. This is the original link where Tom Barr talks about the setup.

http://www.barrreport.com/articles/433-non-co2-methods.html

Joining Tom's forum is well worth it, registration is free, and he is really helpful, so if you run into problems, which I don't think you will, he will go out of his way to help you.

Good luck


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