# Getting my new el natural tank going....



## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

Hi,
A couple of weeks ago I set up my 10g with potting soil, gravel, and some Hygrophila and crypts to try to start an el natural tank. Yesterday I was in town so I picked up some bacopa, ludwigia, and water hyacinths to add to the tank since I didn't have a lot of plants. The water is turning really yellow, lots of tannins coming out of the soil, so I added an air powered corner filter with sponge and carbon to try to clean it up plus take some of the suspended particulates out of the water. Here's a couple of questions I have:

1. I'm still showing ammonia, and nitrites are really getting up there now. My plan was to wait until I get 0's on both and then add fish, does this sound ok? What will happen if I wait a few days before I can get some fish after they both reach 0, will the cycle be ruined then? Or will the soil keep producing ammonia to keep the cycling happening? I wanted to add 5 female bettas.
2. Anyone have experience with water hyacinths in aquariums? There's no top on this tank so I wanted to try something different with a couple of floating plants.
3. The water is pretty cold, probably around 68. Should I add a heater or does it matter for the cycling etc.? Will oto's be ok in water this cold? I really wanted to keep things simple and add as little in the way of heaters, filters, etc. as possible.
4. I'm getting brown algae on the tank walls and some plant leaves. Should I panic? Should I clean it off? I have one 23w screw in florescent 6500k, for about 8 hours/day, little to no natural sunlight at this point. Does that sound ok?


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## bdement (Jun 4, 2007)

Carissa1 said:


> 2. Anyone have experience with water hyacinths in aquariums? There's no top on this tank so I wanted to try something different with a couple of floating plants.


I had some under 192 watts and it did well (a little too well actually). It's a high light plant though, so unfortunately I think it's going to die and make a big mess for you. Keep a close eye on it and remove it if the roots start falling off.


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## Endler Guy (Aug 19, 2007)

Hi Carissa,

Is this the same original tank or have you started over? I would give the plants time to soak up and use all the ammonia. I wouldn't add fish at all until the ammonia and nitrite issues have been resolved. 

Do you have access to any ponds or lakes? I've gotten water lettuce and duckweed from a local creek. I got some frogbit from trading local chara (stinkweed algae) online for postage. 

The "cycle" will always catch up so long as you have enough plants to use the ammonia. If you don't, you could have a black-out and all your animals could die. Plants can soak up ammonia, even in darkness. However, they can only use nitrates while photosynthesizing. 

Clean the brown algae off. It's probably from silicone leaching from the glass. I still have it but is going away. It actually is more likely to grow in light deprived areas of new aquariums. I still have some in my 55.

I don't know about water hyacinths or cold temperatures. 68 is freezing to me!


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

Funny you should say that about the algae.
I have a new 20g-long aquarium, and there is plenty of green hair algae (at least that is what I think it is) growing on the sunny side of the tank and generaly on the top surfaces. But the front of the aquarium away from the sun light (darker side) has the brown algae growing on it.
New glass and in shade.

Although I do a light sprinkling of brown algae on the 2.5g NPT.

Good to know that ammonia is aborbed at night.


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

Hi,
Yes the same tank. I did a 30% water change yesterday to take out some of the brownish color from the water. I guess it will just take a while to get established properly. I know I can't add fish yet.

There are swampy areas and ponds around here but I wouldn't know how to begin identifying the plants in them. Soon they will start dying off since we're starting to get frost sometimes at night.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Endler Guy said:


> Clean the brown algae off. It's probably from silicone leaching from the glass. I still have it but is going away. It actually is more likely to grow in light deprived areas of new aquariums. I still have some in my 55.


Silicones leaching from the glass? Are you trying to start a new myth? 

Bill


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Carissa1 said:


> Hi,
> A couple of weeks ago I set up my 10g with potting soil, gravel, and some Hygrophila and crypts to try to start an el natural tank. Yesterday I was in town so I picked up some bacopa, ludwigia, and water hyacinths to add to the tank since I didn't have a lot of plants. The water is turning really yellow, lots of tannins coming out of the soil, so I added an air powered corner filter with sponge and carbon to try to clean it up plus take some of the suspended particulates out of the water. Here's a couple of questions I have:





> 1. I'm still showing ammonia, and nitrites are really getting up there now. My plan was to wait until I get 0's on both and then add fish, does this sound ok? What will happen if I wait a few days before I can get some fish after they both reach 0, will the cycle be ruined then? Or will the soil keep producing ammonia to keep the cycling happening? I wanted to add 5 female bettas.


Depending on how you treated the "potting soil" before you put it into the tank, the soil could continue producing ammonia and other stuff for some time. (Your tank is doing what happens in the buckets in which some of us soak soil before we use it.)

When the ammonia and nitrites get to zero the tank will be safe for your bettas. A well planted tank will hasten that process.



> 2. Anyone have experience with water hyacinths in aquariums? There's no top on this tank so I wanted to try something different with a couple of floating plants.


They get pretty large and will shade the bottom too much to allow other plants to grow there.



> 3. The water is pretty cold, probably around 68. Should I add a heater or does it matter for the cycling etc.? Will oto's be ok in water this cold? I really wanted to keep things simple and add as little in the way of heaters, filters, etc. as possible.


You need a heater to keep the temperature between 75 and 80, unless you plan to set up a cool water tank.



> 4. I'm getting brown algae on the tank walls and some plant leaves. Should I panic? Should I clean it off? I have one 23w screw in florescent 6500k, for about 8 hours/day, little to no natural sunlight at this point. Does that sound ok?


Don't panic.  Brown algae is common in newly set up aquariums. Just keep wiping it off and eventually it will disappear permanently.

You could use more light. Brown algae is often associated with insufficent light.

Good luck!

Bill


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

aquabillpers said:


> Silicones leaching from the glass? Are you trying to start a new myth?
> 
> Bill


I think he probably meant silicates.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Well, gee, you too! LOL

I don't think that anything of significance "leaches" from aquarium glass.

bill


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## Endler Guy (Aug 19, 2007)

aquabillpers said:


> Well, gee, you too! LOL
> 
> I don't think that anything of significance "leaches" from aquarium glass.
> 
> bill


Yes, I meant silicates. It can leach from glass as easily as from sand. That's one of the reasons it's so common in new tanks. Now you're in the know.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Endler Guy said:


> Yes, I meant silicates. It can leach from glass as easily as from sand. That's one of the reasons it's so common in new tanks. Now you're in the know.


LOL, OK, thanks. But I still doubt that aquarium glass is a significant source of silicates in an aquarium. That comes mainly from the water or the substrate.

The reason brown algae is common in newly set up tanks is because, like other algae, it finds conditions to its liking and there isn't a lot of plant competition. Or, are you suggesting that brown algae is common only in newly purchased tanks and not in 10 year old tanks?

But I have been wrong before. Assuming that silicates do leach from the glass of an aquarium, how long should we expect an aquarium to continue to hold water before it crumbles? Surely the supply of silicates in the glass is not infinite. Would the aquarium crumble suddenly, or would little drops of water start appearing in places on the outside of the aquarium first? 

Bill


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

I don't think the brown algae in my tank is due to silicates leaching from the glass...since my tank was bought used, it's not a new tank. I think the theory is that a new tank will leach excess silicates from the glass for a certain period of time and then stop, that's why brown algae only appears at the beginning of the tank setup period. I have heard this from several sources but I can't confirm it. I know in my new 32g I had a LOT of brown algae, but I was also using some sand as substrate. I think it probably more likely that the sand was leaching the silicates, not the glass. But I can't prove it one way or another. I guess one could go about testing this by taking two bare tanks (no substrate to skew results), one glass and one plastic, and see if there is a difference in the amount of brown algae.

I just found this:

A quote from http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2003/feature.htm

"One additional comment on limewater. At high pH, glass will etch as silica is dissolved into solution. From the standpoint of the glass involved, this does not become significant until the pH is significantly higher than that of limewater. But from the standpoint of small amounts of silica getting into the limewater, and then potentially into the tank, leaching from glass in the situation where limewater is dosed from a glass vessel may be significant."

Limewater has a pH of 12. So if this is true, it's probably not likely at the more neutral pH's that we usually keep fish, that silica will end up leaching out of tank glass in any substantial amounts.

However on that same site he goes on to do several experiments involving different types of sand, and found that both silica sand and other types of sand leach silicates.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

yeah, we should end this silicate myth.. Silicates are everywhere especially in your tap water.

Yes, brown algae use silicates to build their cell structure but so does every other living thing in one way or another.

I think my signature says it all


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## Dr. Demento (Jul 26, 2007)

Endler Guy said:


> Yes, I meant silicates. It can leach from glass as easily as from sand. That's one of the reasons it's so common in new tanks. Now you're in the know.


Not sure I'm biting on that one - From the glass industry: "Corrosion of the glass whereby sodium and potassium ions are dissolved from the glass structure. The pH value is changed, water molecules infiltrate the glass and alkali ions go into solution creating a layer which eventually becomes visible as dullness. Glasses stored in humid conditions or subject to frequent washing may show signs of leaching" http://www.glassonline.com/infoserv/dictionary/52.html

Silicates (SiO4 or some derivative thereof) are very stable - stable enough that strong acids are stored in glass bottles (except hydrofluoric acid). I don't believe that aquarium water will have a leaching effect. Could it come from the silicone caulking - perhaps, but what you usually get is off-gassing of the solvent that kept it semi-solid.

Anywho, it's a moot point - brown algae comes, brown algae goes - we're all happy Peace!


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

Dr. Demento said:


> Silicates (SiO4 or some derivative thereof) are very stable - stable enough that strong acids are stored in glass bottles (except hydrofluoric acid).


The web site I referenced mentioned that silica can leach under extremely alkaline conditions, not acidic conditions. But I agree, neither will occur in a typical aquarium setup.


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## Endler Guy (Aug 19, 2007)

It's all over the Internet but is a moot point considering all the sources of possible silicates and that it usually only happens in new tanks. It was probably a reasonable-sounding theory that took off and spread. Now, a myth. 

I'm beginning to think it is a myth that fish get stunted from build-ups of pheromones in small tanks or tanks with no water changes. From my own experience, plants have much to do with it. Maybe someone should start a "Myth" thread.


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