# Advice on new setup



## tomgndallas (Nov 13, 2014)

Ok, so now that I am up and running I need a little advice on dosing.

Specs...

27 g cube, two finnex fuge ray planted plus led fixtures, marineland c220 canister, 40 lbs eco complete, mixed plants (Anubias coffee something, swords, bacopa, Java fern, sunset hydro, one or two others I am not sure what they are), tetras, a couple danios and a couple rasboras.

Just bought a bottle of flourish excel. It says to dose daily, I think that is too much. I do have a co2 system, but I have not hooked it up yet. 

I was thinking maybe a capful every other day. 

What are your thoughts?


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## digital_gods (Apr 23, 2010)

From past experiences, go with CO2 instead of dosing excel. Excel is made from a disinfectant and can be little harsh on sensitive fish. What you should be dosing is nitrates, potassium, trace elements with iron.


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## tomgndallas (Nov 13, 2014)

Are you doing this individually? Or is ther a product you use to facilitate? I honestly don't want to go full chemistry experiment on this tank.


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## CrownMan (Sep 12, 2005)

Out of my 9 aquariums, I only dose the CO2 heavily planted tanks (20G and 65G) using the Estimative Index method that Tom Barr has come up with. If you want to grow lush forests using CO2, I recommend you check out his website, www.barrreport.com . You can spend a whole lot of time researching that method while your tank is settling in with the plants you have.

The other 7 tanks have a lot of the plants you mention you are starting with. Anubias and java fern don't require any dosing but since they are very slow growers, you might monitor them for algae. In my tanks, those are the plants that get the bushy type algae that grows on leaves. Bacopa is a fast grower and is not very sensitive to water conditions. The only dosing I have ever used in my non CO2 tanks is adding a little Seachem Equilibrium after a water change or about twice a month (adds Potassium, Iron, Calcium and Magnesium - among others). About once or twice a month I might use a little CSM + B which Tom Barr discusses as well as other dosing gurus.

Starting out with planted tanks, I think the most difficulty will come from determining how to address an algae or a nutrient deficiency problem. And of course finding the balance between the plants and fish load.

As far a using Excel, I mostly use it in newly planted thanks for the first month or two. As Robert stated, I also don't use Excel in tanks with shrimp or sensitive fish but I rarely start a new tank fully stocked with fish. I usually heavily plant first and add the fish after the tank has cycled (created bacteria to break down the wastes). As long as you don't over stock your tank with critters, the fish wastes will provide some nitrogen and fish food some of the other Macros for the plants and you can strike a good balance and not have to dose a non CO2 tank. Obviously, you get the quickest and lushest growth by using CO2, but you do have to dose Macros and Micros in a CO2 tank. Otherwise, the algae will outcompete the plants for those nutrients.

Another dosing method is PPS. You can find out about that dosing method on this website under the Fertilizing forum.

Also, if you plan to use CO2 and dose, check out the Fertilator on this web site. It is located in the Control Bar with several other selections. Keep in mind that a 27 Gallon tank after adding substrate and driftwood would likely end up being barely over 20 Gallons of water. So base your dosing calculations on the volume of water. Using CO2 and some dosing methods might require a 50% water change weekly. Non CO2 tanks need some water changes as well but not as much. Buy a TDMS meter from EBAY or AMAZON. You can get one for under $10 and they give you an idea about how many total dissolved solids are in your water on any given day. Total dissolve solids come in the water from the tap, dead plant material, fish wastes and uneaten food. I use that meter to determine when I need to change 30% or more from my non CO2 tanks.

Plant finder is a nice feature also. If you see a plant you like, you can search the web and find out more info or just ask someone in the Plants forum for some details on growing it.

Good Luck and don't hesitate to ask questions. You are likely to get varying results as there are a lot of successful plant growers on this site and very few use the same method.


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## tomgndallas (Nov 13, 2014)

CrownMan said:


> Out of my 9 aquariums, I only dose the CO2 heavily planted tanks (20G and 65G) using the Estimative Index method that Tom Barr has come up with. If you want to grow lush forests using CO2, I recommend you check out his website, www.barrreport.com . You can spend a whole lot of time researching that method while your tank is settling in with the plants you have.
> 
> The other 7 tanks have a lot of the plants you mention you are starting with. Anubias and java fern don't require any dosing but since they are very slow growers, you might monitor them for algae. In my tanks, those are the plants that get the bushy type algae that grows on leaves. Bacopa is a fast grower and is not very sensitive to water conditions. The only dosing I have ever used in my non CO2 tanks is adding a little Seachem Equilibrium after a water change or about twice a month (adds Potassium, Iron, Calcium and Magnesium - among others). About once or twice a month I might use a little CSM + B which Tom Barr discusses as well as other dosing gurus.
> 
> ...


Wow, that is exactly what I needed, thanks! I just stumbled upon Tom Barr earlier today and added the Barr Report to my favorites. I've been more or less reading forums and studying up today. I am curious to know what your trigger point is on TDS for the water change? I had thought just basing it in nitrate build up, but with the plants and the little lemna hitch hikers that I got with the plants from the meeting, I am thinking that this would not be the most reliable method. I will go ahead and pick up a TDS meter, I used to have one but sold it with all my saltwater stuff last year. Any particular one you recommend?

Also, help me identifiy this plant if you could, it is the little one with the frilly edges on the front center of this tank shot.

Thanks Mike!


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## tomgndallas (Nov 13, 2014)




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## tomgndallas (Nov 13, 2014)

Also, you are dead on with my tank volume. It is pretty much 20 gallons as it stands with everything in it.


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## redthumb (Apr 17, 2014)

Plant looks like Java fern


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## tomgndallas (Nov 13, 2014)

You might be right, crested java fern maybe. Shoot... I need to pull it out of the soil then and put it in a rock.


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## fishyjoe24 (May 18, 2010)

winlow java fern is what it looks like to me.


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