# Need help with plant selection



## Grizzle Fish (May 29, 2014)

Howdy,
I'm getting ready to purchase plants for a 10 gallon low light NPT startup. Substrate will be mineralized soil/blasting sand cap.

Am I on the right track for a 10 gallon NPT? I don't mind taking some reasonable risk as this is a growing test for a larger tank I'm planning.



> Ancharis narrow Leaf
> Anubias Barteri coffeefolia
> Cryptocoryne parva
> Cryptocoryne spiralis
> ...


Thank you,
~Grizz


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## HDBenson (Sep 24, 2014)

Two suggestions: 1) hold off on the Java fern and anubias until the tank is producing more CO2. otherwise they might succumb to algae before establishing well. 2) Before getting all three sp. of Crypt try searching or asking on the Crypt allelopathy forum to make sure they don't kill each other off. That's all I have to say, looks like a good list though. Post pics when you get it going!


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## Grizzle Fish (May 29, 2014)

Hello HD,
I was thinking that may be the thing to do regarding the java fern and anubias. As for the allelopathy, I would assume from your statement that plants within the same species are more likely to have a problem with each other than with species outside their own. There you go, learn something new every day. I didn't know that, or where to go to research the interactions either. Thanks! I'll look into that, and thanks for looking things over for me!!!

~Grizz


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

That list could easily outgrow a 10 gallon. But I know that this is a practice tank for you before you set up your much larger tank. So that may be exactly what you want, LOL--plenty of plants to put in your big tank later.


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## Grizzle Fish (May 29, 2014)

Michael said:


> That list could easily outgrow a 10 gallon. But I know that this is a practice tank for you before you set up your much larger tank. So that may be exactly what you want, LOL--plenty of plants to put in your big tank later.


Thanks Michael,
That's what I wanted to hear. I may pare the shopping list down a little but yes, having that tank as a resource my be the ticket to saving me some plant buying money in the future.

I also have another tank, a 20 gallon with a 3 1/2" full grown Ancistrus cirrhosis (medusa catfish) in there. It would be cool to provide him with a planted environment. I have read that if I do a proper job of building in accommodations for the cat, and with some, or a lot of luck, he wouldn't make a mess of things. That's a way off yet and will be determined by how the 10 gallon project turns out.









Handsome Eddy

~Grizz


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Nice bristlenose! A big male like that would really like a cave. I raise these guys (whether I want to or not!) and have never had any problem with them damaging plants or disturbing soil substrate. They are the ideal pleco for planted tanks.


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## Grizzle Fish (May 29, 2014)

Awesome! That's really good to know. He is a great fish too. Tears into romaine lettuce and loves algae wafers. I have had him for a few years now. Great fish!

~Grizz


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## HDBenson (Sep 24, 2014)

Grizzle Fish said:


> Hello HD,
> I was thinking that may be the thing to do regarding the java fern and anubias. As for the allelopathy, I would assume from your statement that plants within the same species are more likely to have a problem with each other than with species outside their own. There you go, learn something new every day. I didn't know that, or where to go to research the interactions either. Thanks! I'll look into that, and thanks for looking things over for me!!!
> 
> ~Grizz


You're welcome! I've had a clown plec in all of my set-ups since forever. I loved the litte guy/gal. Recently lost him do to a heater malfunction. Never once caught it damaging plants, just munching on algae and wood. Re-read Walstad's section on alleopathy, just for fun. It was one of the most interesting chapters of the book to me. There is an entire thread(sticky I think) in the Cryptocoryne forum on here about alleopathy in Cryptocoryne. Just ask if anyone has had success with that combo.


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

Crypts Yes there are some issues with Crypts species that are not comparable with each other. I had experienced this years ago and had a hard time understanding what was happening. Prior I had two 20 gallon long Crypt tanks with a different species in each tank that reproduced like crazey. Yet after repeated try I could not keep Crypts in a 55 gallon that I had planted with both of these species. They would have looked beautiful complementing each other with one variety being red and the other being a blueish green in comparison. 

On the Pleco issue I will have to say that the Ancistrus species are probably one of the best for planted tanks. Dependent on the species there size range varies from 2" to about 5" max. They are vegetarians and I always feed mine a rotating diet of Squash, Cucumbers, and Green Beans. Yet they still do a great job of algae control. 

As far as clown plecos's are concerned they are Panaqolus species and there size range varies a little more. They are also wood eaters so having some drift wood in the tank with them will help them get a balanced diet along with other vegetable mater. The other thing is that with there striped patterns some varieties are more pleasing to the eye. 

But with either of these species simply surviving on the algea in the tank will not provide them with a balanced diet. You need to feed them vegetables and occasionally a little meaty substances.

Beware of some of the other species sold as pleco's. Just because they are a pleco does not mean they will help with algea control. Some varieties are strictly carnivorous or meat eaters.


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## Grizzle Fish (May 29, 2014)

HDBenson said:


> You're welcome! I've had a clown plec in all of my set-ups since forever. I loved the litte guy/gal. Recently lost him do to a heater malfunction. Never once caught it damaging plants, just munching on algae and wood. Re-read Walstad's section on alleopathy, just for fun. It was one of the most interesting chapters of the book to me. There is an entire thread(sticky I think) in the Cryptocoryne forum on here about alleopathy in Cryptocoryne. Just ask if anyone has had success with that combo.


Thanks for that HD. I have since read the sticky and I will definitely take it into consideration when planting by separating the beasties.

~Grizz


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## HDBenson (Sep 24, 2014)

You're welcome Grizz! However, seperating them in the tank may not be enough. TropTrea: I had Panaqolus maccus. Loved the guy. I fed him a variety of veggie matter(besides algae wafers/frozen beef heart). This is probably why he never took a go at the plants. +1 on the attractiveness of these little guys and necessity of driftwood. Mine was a dark brown with orange/pink stripes. The older he got the wider the light stripes got. He was also very active during the day. I could always show him off!


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## Grizzle Fish (May 29, 2014)

TropTrea said:


> Crypts...
> 
> As far as clown plecos's are concerned...


Thanks TropTrea,
I will keep an eye on the Crypts and separate them from each other and from any Vals. I'll perform water changes and will keep charcoal on hand for anything sideways I see going on.

I'll say that some of the clown Plecos I have seen pictures of look really cool. You should throw a picture of him up so we can see the little guy.

For mine I don't run the light in his tank, (with the exception of taking pictures), as he prefers only indirect light and darkness. During the day he always lays out for a spell under the current of the two filters I have running, (I try to simulate the current of a mild stream for him so he gets plenty of O2), or he will cling to a giant lettuce leaf and feed on it as it floats around in the current, it's fun to watch him taking a ride, but frequently he stays in seclusion during the day.

Later in the evening he emerges like a vampire and will suck on an algae tab I throw in, and some more lettuce later. He doesn't seem to care for meat very much, his breed I believe is more of a veggie/algae eater.

His tank stays at a temp of 81.5, a pH between 7.0 - 7.15, kh <50ppm, and gh <150ppm.

He loves it right after a water change which I do regularly because the gravel gets dirty pretty fast in his 20 gallon. He seems very hardy and healthy but doesn't seem to like it any cooler than that temp.

I run two heaters in most of my tanks, both for coverage and in case one fails. With one heater running I have taken temp samples at various locations, and unless there's a lot of current going on the heat coming off of a heater can be pretty localized to the area around it, that is if your room temp gets cold.

~Grizz


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## Grizzle Fish (May 29, 2014)

HDBenson said:


> You're welcome Grizz! However, seperating them in the tank may not be enough. TropTrea: I had Panaqolus maccus. Loved the guy. I fed him a variety of veggie matter(besides algae wafers/frozen beef heart). This is probably why he never took a go at the plants. +1 on the attractiveness of these little guys and necessity of driftwood. Mine was a dark brown with orange/pink stripes. The older he got the wider the light stripes got. He was also very active during the day. I could always show him off!


Yeah, I will just have to see how it goes. I may drop one Crypt off the list. I'm sure it will be a learning experience for me. 

You mention how the stripes on your fish changed over time. When I had my salt water tank many years ago, a 90, I bought a baby angel fish. If you are unfamiliar with them just google-image "angel fish young and adult". They go from having a circular line pattern when young, to straight horizontal stripes when they become adults. I never noticed the change happen because it happens so slow, until one day I was looking through some old photos I had taken of my tank when it was new, and I was blown away by how much he had changed! Holy cow!, or fish!

~Grizz


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## HDBenson (Sep 24, 2014)

Thought I may have had some pics of it on my photobucket but apparently that's not the case. I'll have to search through my computer and see if I have any.


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## Grizzle Fish (May 29, 2014)

HDBenson said:


> Thought I may have had some pics of it on my photobucket but apparently that's not the case. I'll have to search through my computer and see if I have any.


I had a heck of a time photographing mine, as he is skittish and will scamper off and hide if he detects sudden movement. So to get a decent photo of him required a lot of work and patients.

BTY, I ordered my plants last night, so should be getting them this week!!!!

~Grizz


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## HDBenson (Sep 24, 2014)

Awesome! Just looked at your thread for the layout looks good but I would put the Val in front of the foxtail. The Val may get lost behind the foxtail. Just something to think about.


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## Grizzle Fish (May 29, 2014)

HDBenson said:


> Awesome! Just looked at your thread for the layout looks good but I would put the Val in front of the foxtail. The Val may get lost behind the foxtail. Just something to think about.


Cool, thanks HD.


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

Before getting a pleco I found this web site to be a great guide. There is bigger range of plecos than what most people realize. Some are extremely beautiful, but all are not planted tank friendly.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/numbers.php?mode=l&thumbs=100&offset=0&genus_id=0


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## Grizzle Fish (May 29, 2014)

TropTrea said:


> Before getting a pleco I found this web site to be a great guide. There is bigger range of plecos than what most people realize. Some are extremely beautiful, but all are not planted tank friendly.
> 
> http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/numbers.php?mode=l&thumbs=100&offset=0&genus_id=0


Hey, thanks TropTrea,
I had to do some searching to find my fish but I did, along with some good pictures. Nice find!

~Grizz


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

Grizzle Fish said:


> BTY, I ordered my plants last night, so should be getting them this week!!!!
> 
> ~Grizz


I hope your not in a cold climate. Single degrees days predicted here all week. I will not ship plants untill the temps are above freezing in my area even if they add heat packs. I have to many priority shipment that took more then a week.


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## Grizzle Fish (May 29, 2014)

TropTrea said:


> I hope your not in a cold climate. Single degrees days predicted here all week. I will not ship plants untill the temps are above freezing in my area even if they add heat packs. I have to many priority shipment that took more then a week.


Hi TropTrea,
Nope, shiping from Arizona to sunny CA.
They are supposed to arrive on Wednesday as the store owner had notified me earlier that she had suffered an injury. I told her to take her time, no rush necessary, being the gentleman that I am. 

So Wednesday is the big arrival day! I hope it all goes well. I have been watching some videos on how to plant. Looks like you cut off any roots that are longer than an inch, to leave only an inch to plant? Sort of makes sense I suppose as it would be hard to bury long roots. I'm just not sure if that applies to every plant with long roots or not?

~Grizz


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

Grizzle Fish said:


> Hi TropTrea,
> 
> I have been watching some videos on how to plant. Looks like you cut off any roots that are longer than an inch, to leave only an inch to plant? Sort of makes sense I suppose as it would be hard to bury long roots. I'm just not sure if that applies to every plant with long roots or not?
> 
> ~Grizz


I do not do it that way. I will very seldom cut roots unless they are extremely long and straggle. As I see it it would increase the transplanting stress. The roots also help to anchor the plants especially if they are large.

The ideal is to spread the roots out but with some substrate mixes that is asking for a messy tank. So I jus stick the roots into the substrate and try to make sure the crown is right at the surface of the substrate not burried or sitting above the substrate with roots exposed. Yes the roots can end up clumped together this way but it does not cause any issues I have encountered yet.


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