# I thought I knew about fertilizing until I joined here...Please help.



## JerseyScape (Nov 18, 2005)

Hi,

First off I want to say you guys/girls are awesome with what you have going in these forums.

Anyway, I thought I knew what I was doing when it came to fertilizing but then I read some things on here and it is making me more confused. When some of you people talk about fertilizing, you sound like chemists with PHDs. You might comment that there are hundreds of threads on here covering everything there is to know about this subject, but I cannot read these crazy symbols. I am a Finance and Accounting major in college so I did not pay attention to the Periodic Table in Chemistry. 

I know you guys use the powdered stuff because it is cheaper but then there seems to be hundreds of different powders and things to measure for. (Look what I found in one of the threads, how the heck is any newbie supposed to understand that  )

Questions:
Besides the Co2 and PH testers what other testers should I look for and where to purchase?
Which fertilizers should I actually buy? (do I have to buy all the ones listed below?)
Where to find out about dosage for my 15 gallon?

Thank You,
Jersey



> Alkalinity (ppm) 2003 149 73 - 196
> Bicarbonate (ppm) 2003 191 167 - 239
> Calcium (ppm) 2003 57 22.5 - 139
> Hardness (ppm) 2003 187 64.3 - 455
> ...


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## stcyrwm (Apr 20, 2005)

I would divide what you need to learn into three categories: lighting, CO2 and fertilizers.

You need to start with the lighting. Figure out how many watts per gallon you have. If you have one 18 watt bulb over your 15 gallon tank then you have just over 1 watt per gallon or 1 wpg. This is very different than if you have 75 watts or 5 wpg. Once you know what you have you'll have to decide whether that is enough to do what you want.

There are several levels of plant growth intensity which are based on lighting levels. 

High light or over 2.5 wpg which requires CO2.

Medium light of about 2 wpg with CO2.

Medium light of about 2 wpg with liquid carbon - Excel.

Medium light of about 2 wpg no CO2 or liquid carbon.

Low light of 1 to 1.5 wpg. 

From top to bottom you have varying levels of growth, plant choice, maintenance, expense, and complication. The higher the light the more of all the above factors - more plant choice, more growth, more maintenance, more complication and more expense. The lower the light the less plant choice, less growth, less maintenance, less complication and less expense.

You will have to decide where in the equation you are with your lighting and where you want to be. Lighting quality is a factor here also. Most of the numbers above are based on good quality bulbs ie twin tube flourescents with good reflectors. Once you decide which level you want to be at then you'll need to figure CO2, liquid carbon or non CO2. Then you'll need to figure fertilizer based on the level of growth you have chosen and don't worry even at the highest level there are only a few fertilizers you need. 

Take it a step at a time and you will do fine.

Hope this helps, Bill


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## JerseyScape (Nov 18, 2005)

stcyrwm said:


> I would divide what you need to learn into three categories: lighting, CO2 and fertilizers.
> 
> You need to start with the lighting. Figure out how many watts per gallon you have. If you have one 18 watt bulb over your 15 gallon tank then you have just over 1 watt per gallon or 1 wpg. This is very different than if you have 75 watts or 5 wpg. Once you know what you have you'll have to decide whether that is enough to do what you want.
> 
> ...


My specs:
Lighting- 3.66 WPG
Pressurized Co2 injection
Eco-Complete Substrate

I researched all the above parts and now I am on my last step which is FERTILZING.

There seems to be so many fertilizers out there that it makes it confusing. 
I would like to use the powdered ones because they seem most cost deterring.


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## stcyrwm (Apr 20, 2005)

OK then there are a couple systems you can use. One involves testing and dosing based on those tests. There is a forum here called PPS which can advise you on this system.

The other is EI (estimative index) in which you do weekly 50% water changes which limits the fertilizer levels to no more than twice what you dose weekly. This system uses 4 basic ferts all of which you can order from "gregwatson.com". You use KNO3 (potassium nitrate) and KH2PO4 (mono potassium phosphate) for your macronutrients nitrate, potassium and phosphate. Seachem Flourish for traces and a little Seachem Equilibrium. That's all you should need. 

You'll be dosing the KNO3 and KH2PO4 4x/week and the traces on the off days. Dose the Equilibrium right after water change. Post this on the Barr Report Forum and Tom will give you quantities or maybe someone else will post it here. My sense is you'll be about: 1/8th tsp KNO3 and 1/16th tsp KH2PO4 4x/week and 3ml Flourish 3X/week. Equilibrium 1/8th tsp after water change. I'd double check these numbers with Tom or someone else with more experience though. You might also find someone with a similar size tank if and specs if you look through the Barr report Forum.

Good luck, Bill


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## imatrout (May 12, 2005)

stcyrwm said:


> You'll be dosing the KNO3 and KH2PO4 4x/week and the traces on the off days. Dose the Equilibrium right after water change. Post this on the Barr Report Forum and Tom will give you quantities or maybe someone else will post it here. My sense is you'll be about: 1/8th tsp KNO3 and 1/16th tsp KH2PO4 4x/week and 3ml Flourish 3X/week. Equilibrium 1/8th tsp after water change. I'd double check these numbers with Tom or someone else with more experience though. You might also find someone with a similar size tank if and specs if you look through the Barr report Forum.
> 
> Good luck, Bill


I myself try to use the EI method and it's great because alI I really have to worry about is adding KNO3, KH2PO4 and Flourish Traces and Flourish Iron. That said, I have a high fish load and NEVER have to dose the Macros more than once per water change. I do provide the traces and iron every other day. That long list of ferts is crazy. Most of that stuff is in the water already or in the trace elements you'll add.


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## JerseyScape (Nov 18, 2005)

Thanks guys...that's exactly what I was looking for. Simple and right to the point.


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## TWood (Dec 9, 2004)

If you want to know exactly what you are dosing, go here:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilator.php

(Also linked in the APC banner.)

TW


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## imatrout (May 12, 2005)

TWood said:


> If you want to know exactly what you are dosing, go here:
> 
> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilator.php
> 
> ...


YESSSSS!!!!! The Fertilator is highly recommended!


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## JerseyScape (Nov 18, 2005)

stcyrwm said:


> You'll be dosing the KNO3 and KH2PO4 4x/week and the traces on the off days. Dose the Equilibrium right after water change. Post this on the Barr Report Forum and Tom will give you quantities or maybe someone else will post it here. My sense is you'll be about: 1/8th tsp KNO3 and 1/16th tsp KH2PO4 4x/week and 3ml Flourish 3X/week. Equilibrium 1/8th tsp after water change. I'd double check these numbers with Tom or someone else with more experience though. You might also find someone with a similar size tank if and specs if you look through the Barr report Forum.
> 
> Good luck, Bill


Call me ignorant but how do I measure 1/16 of a teaspoon? I tried to find measuring spoons and none of them are the required size.


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## chiahead (Dec 18, 2004)

They do sell smaller than the regular teaspoon measurements. Visit a store that sells kitchen items or you can also buy them online but it would be better to visit your local store. I belive the measurements are called smidgen, pinch and dash which are 1/16, 1/32, and 1/64 of a teaspoon someone correct me if I am wrong here


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## stcyrwm (Apr 20, 2005)

JerseyScape said:


> Call me ignorant but how do I measure 1/16 of a teaspoon? I tried to find measuring spoons and none of them are the required size.


If you go to a cooking store they will have measuring spoons this small or they will be labeled dash, pinch and smidgen. A dash is an 1/8th tsp. A pinch is the 1/16th. The smidgen is for 1/32nd. Greg also has them at "gregwatson.com".

Bill


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## stcyrwm (Apr 20, 2005)

chiahead said:


> They do sell smaller than the regular teaspoon measurements. Visit a store that sells kitchen items or you can also buy them online but it would be better to visit your local store. I belive the measurements are called smidgen, pinch and dash which are 1/16, 1/32, and 1/64 of a teaspoon someone correct me if I am wrong here


We posted at the same time. After I saw your post I googled it and it is dash = 1/8 tsp, pinch = 1/16 tsp and smidgen = 1/32 tsp.


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## JerseyScape (Nov 18, 2005)

stcyrwm said:


> If you go to a cooking store they will have measuring spoons this small or they will be labeled dash, pinch and smidgen. A dash is an 1/8th tsp. A pinch is the 1/16th. The smidgen is for 1/32nd. Greg also has them at "gregwatson.com".
> 
> Bill


I tried gregwatson.com and they are out of stock. :sad:
I am heading over to Wal-Mart tomorrow (I only buy my car oil there) so I will check out what they have.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Hey Jersey,

If you have a 1/8th tsp simply divide that amount in half. If you only have a 1/4 tsp take that amount and divide it into 4 parts to get your 1/16th tsp. 

If you want to be more precise, get a scale, weigh your ferts and make solutions for them. Though there is really no need to make it this complicated. 

I found the Dash, pinch, and smidgen spoons at Meijer. Not sure if they have Meijer in your area but I thought I would suggest it.


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## stcyrwm (Apr 20, 2005)

JerseyScape said:


> I tried gregwatson.com and they are out of stock. :sad:
> I am heading over to Wal-Mart tomorrow (I only buy my car oil there) so I will check out what they have.


Google answers all needs, try:

http://www.mileskimball.com/jump.jsp?itemID=3646&itemType=PRODUCT&path=1%2C2%2C4%2C15

If Wal-Mart doesn't have it and you still want to get it locally then try a store that is focused just on cooking and baking.

Bill


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

The first time I measured out 1/16 of a teaspoon my wife looked at me funny. I was quartering out a 1/4tsp of white powder on a CD case with a razor blade.... If you want to take a little time go get some weekly pill boxes and fill each day with what you need to dose that day it can save you a lot of time on those things that are less than a standard amount.

Regards,
Phil


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

Small digital gram scales that can measure to 0.1g can be found for very reasonable prices...

I bought one new here online from the UK for about $25-$30. I'm sure you can find cheaper in the US.


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## johnnotis (Nov 22, 2005)

*measuring small quantities without a balance*

Ok, so you need 1 / 32 of a tsp to dose something. Instead of trying to measure that tiny amount accurately, make a stock solution, and dose it out with a syringe or measuring spoon.

Measure out 1 tsp of whatever you have, and dissolve it in a 'nice' volume of water - say 320 ml. Now, dose 320 / 32 = 10 ml.

For the strictly english measurement aficionados, you can dissolve your 1 tsp in some even number of tablespoons, and then dose a tablespoon. In this case, 32 tb = 1 pint, so 1 tsp into a pint, and then dose 1 tb.

Your stock solution will last for 32 doses, and you can add 10 ml (or 1 tb)repeatably, which keeps your nutrient levels even. I feel that this is very important, especially when you consider that some chemicals come in relatively large crystals, so one more might be a 50% increase in dosage. Note that if you need 1 / 20 of a tsp, you could dissolve your 1 tsp in 200 ml (or 20 tb), or anything else that divides by 20 nicely. Don't try to dissolve in too small a volume, as some compounds aren't all that soluble.

Most of the compounds that people dose are relatively stable at room temp for a month or so, so don't worry about leaving these solutions sit. On the other hand, don't try to make a 10-year supply! This goes for KNO3, KH2PO4, MgSO4, K2SO4, but I refrigerate any trace mixes.


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## JerseyScape (Nov 18, 2005)

great answers guys....

I have one more question:
The equalibrium only goes in ONCE a week after water changes right? 

Thanks


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## stcyrwm (Apr 20, 2005)

JerseyScape said:


> I have one more question:
> The equalibrium only goes in ONCE a week after water changes right?


That is correct.

Bill


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