# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Filtration schematic for my 500 lt planted aquarium



## Freemann (Mar 19, 2004)

Filtration Schematic for my 500 lt planted aquarium
Pump is Quiet life 2500 lt/h, lifeguard modules, 2 mechanical, 1 thermostat module (will be used for UV if needed). Water is split into 2 before entering DIY biological filter, low flow rate is required there, all can be removed for service purposes, filter will work only with automatic water changes if needed (part before input valves) or without parts of choice (pipe can be connected overcoming missing part). All parts are here now.
4 dosing pumps introduce ferts, one input CO2 before biological filter.
All comments are appreciated








www.bellybean.com/~pave/aquaria/plumbingeng.jpg 
For a general view of my DIY 48Height X 30Diameter Biological filter (more info on construction later):
www.bellybean.com/~pave/aquaria/biofilter.jpg

[This message was edited by Freemann on Wed April 02 2003 at 01:30 PM.]

[This message was edited by Freemann on Wed April 02 2003 at 01:32 PM.]


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## Freemann (Mar 19, 2004)

Filtration Schematic for my 500 lt planted aquarium
Pump is Quiet life 2500 lt/h, lifeguard modules, 2 mechanical, 1 thermostat module (will be used for UV if needed). Water is split into 2 before entering DIY biological filter, low flow rate is required there, all can be removed for service purposes, filter will work only with automatic water changes if needed (part before input valves) or without parts of choice (pipe can be connected overcoming missing part). All parts are here now.
4 dosing pumps introduce ferts, one input CO2 before biological filter.
All comments are appreciated








www.bellybean.com/~pave/aquaria/plumbingeng.jpg 
For a general view of my DIY 48Height X 30Diameter Biological filter (more info on construction later):
www.bellybean.com/~pave/aquaria/biofilter.jpg

[This message was edited by Freemann on Wed April 02 2003 at 01:30 PM.]

[This message was edited by Freemann on Wed April 02 2003 at 01:32 PM.]


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## imported_Platy (Feb 4, 2003)

Wow that is quite thought out... Are you going to post pictures of the final product later? How are the ferts introduced or regulated?

How are you going to mix the co2 - the way I see it it will simply flow into the tank in large bubbles. I made the mistake of inputing co2 direction into a horizontal line back into the tank, with almost no diffusion.

Looks good otherwise









ImaNewbie -
125 Gal - 3.07wpg - 99% flourite - Pressurized Co2 - Uv Sterilization when needed - Densly Planted


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## Freemann (Mar 19, 2004)

Platy
Check this link for more info on the tank
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=9320&sessionID={942B9AC6-EDD8-4DA4-B20C-01341241B1EB}

You say:
How are you going to mix the co2 - the way I see it it will simply flow into the tank in large bubbles. I made the mistake of inputing co2 direction into a horizontal line back into the tank, with almost no diffusion.

The water with the CO2 is introduced into the biological filter from below. The biofilter is filled with bactoballs CO2 bubbles will be traped among the bioballs and they will dissolve there in the same way some commercial CO2 diffusers work.


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## imported_Platy (Feb 4, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> The water with the CO2 is introduced into the biological filter from below. The biofilter is filled with bactoballs CO2 bubbles will be traped among the bioballs and they will dissolve there in the same way some commercial CO2 diffusers work.


Well, if your talking about bio balls used in a wet / dry - I think you are mistaken. In those, water runs over the bio balls, allowing oxygen to keep the good bacteria alive. The bio balls are only to give the bacteria surface area to work on.

In which case, you just have a HUGE reactor, and if its slow flow, your going to end up with an air pocket. my mag 350 runs around 300 gallons an hour, and its not enough flow to sufficently diffuse co2 if your running over 1 bbl a second.



> quote:
> 
> By the way I have a diagram of the automatic water changing system which I can post as-well if you are interested


Id like to see that too if you have it









It looks like a great system otherwise though.

Dustin

ImaNewbie -
125 Gal - 3.07wpg - 99% flourite - Pressurized Co2 - Uv Sterilization when needed - Densly Planted


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## Freemann (Mar 19, 2004)

Well, if your talking about bio balls used in a wet / dry - I think you are mistaken. In those, water runs over the bio balls, allowing oxygen to keep the good bacteria alive. The bio balls are only to give the bacteria surface area to work on.

In which case, you just have a HUGE reactor, and if its slow flow, your going to end up with an air pocket. my mag 350 runs around 300 gallons an hour, and its not enough flow to sufficently diffuse co2 if your running over 1 bbl a second.

Yes the biobals are the same ones that are used also in the wet and dry systems there major purpose in this case is for biological filtration and yes CO2 trapped among the bioballs will dissolve. I am having reactors with ceramic rings that work perfectly here only difference that CO2 enters there from the top and gets dissolved, that maybe a problem in this case meaning that instead of staying traped the bubbles could travel all the way up to the top of the container and escape from there. I could place the CO2 with the rest of the the dosing pumps this way CO2 would be introduced in the first stage and it will be traped before the microfilters.
I could also connect in one of the other inputs an external pump and feed CO2 in a proper diffuser like this onehttp://www.bellybean.com/~pave/aquaria/images/143lt_difuser.jpg









[This message was edited by Freemann on Fri April 04 2003 at 12:48 PM.]

[This message was edited by Freemann on Fri April 04 2003 at 12:49 PM.]


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2003)

500liters:

You don't need that kind of mech filtration. You also don't need 7% daily water changes, this would require more nutrients. Leave the nutrients in the tank for 2-3 days so that they all get used up. Then do the water change(say 25% every 3 days).

Nutrient cost will add up.

I'd use oversize piping on the return to maximize the flow rate of the pump.

You might think an automated system is all great but the systems I've seen are better run have simple approaches that work and require much less mainteance and energy and initial start up cost.
End result is a nicer looking ecosystem that stays nice. 

I would get the best most efficient pump you can find. 

CO2, run a ~10cm dia PVC tube about 40cm long and add reducers/adaptors to match it up for the intake. Place this right after the suction side of the intake.
Bubble the CO2 into the intake.

See Ghori's design. Works well with closed systems. 

You can dose 2-3x a week as this will not help nor harm vs daily. 


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

freeman, it seems that you have done LOTS of thinking about your new tank's system. i might add, i am an electrician, and have learned by painful exp... the more parts there are in a system, the more often something is going to break. and usually, the less you spend for something, the more often something will break, although there are inxpensive good parts out there, but experience is the worst teacher when your fsh might die or your house may flood from such an exp. so, for a truly excellent system, the fewer great quality parts involved, the less problems you will have. ie, one dosing pump would be quite fine, if you can get the right mix to add, instead of 4, just as an example. unless you spend a thousand dollars on each dosing pump. 

also, everything in that system will need to be cleaned once in a while. the more difficult you make it to come apart, the less often you will want to clean it. i would install the piping with unions or a similar method to make it come apart and be put back together easily. you do NOT want to have to spin large canisters off of pipe to take things apart, so use a union between the canisters, rather than a straight piece of pipe.

the terms efficient and effective should be used in the planning stages. i would change more water, less often. although this would seem to be worse for overall stability, the value of a water change is more with larger less frequent water changes. ie, 2 x 50% water changes is exactly as effective as 1 75% water change. (efficiency and effectiveness) 

good luck, this is qute an ambitious project..i hope we see the finished product.

hth, rick


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## Freemann (Mar 19, 2004)

hi Tom









You don't need that kind of mech filtration. You also don't need 7% daily water changes, this would require more nutrients. Leave the nutrients in the tank for 2-3 days so that they all get used up. Then do the water change(say 25% every 3 days).

Nutrient cost will add up.

I know I could do without that kind of mech filtration but I have them for 15 years lying around unused and it is time to use them (micro-filtration I like the idea lots







). 7% daily water changes amount to 50 % a week I do that to all my tanks anyway and fresh everyday is goood. Nutrients will be always there I can dose all at will now with 4 dosing pumps (by the way pumps cost only 50$ dollars each).

I'd use oversize piping on the return to maximize the flow rate of the pump.
Good point there Tom.

Nutrient cost will add up.
1 kg KNO3 cost 1 $ here same K2SO4
I have 1 1/2 KG of iron gluconate as-well here.
So np.

You might think an automated system is all great but the systems I've seen are better run have simple approaches that work and require much less maintenance and energy and initial start up cost.
End result is a nicer looking ecosystem that stays nice.

But I love automations I think at the end an automated system if are designed properly are more "natural" (if you can call our buckets natural)cause everything goes in predetermined time there are also more worry free (things like did I add or not, I am bored, no time factor are eliminated). The parts for this tank I am collecting for years now so no real cost (pendants and lamps lets say were exchanged for personal work). As for automatic dosing I love it works perfectly here. And everything stays nice no ups and downs here. Also 4 dosing pumps will be a perfect ground for experimentation (dosing more or less)

I would get the best most efficient pump you can find.
Me to. So I have the Quiet Life 2.500 lt/h pump here it is actually a Grundfus pump disguised this is a silent beauty specially made for the modules.

Hi aspen:

It seems that you have done LOTS of thinking about your new tank's.
And yes and no I think closed water systems for really long time there are my favorites.

the more parts there are in a system, the more often something is going to break.
This is fact but still this are quite secure parts Actually ball valves will be all metallic the only metallic thing in the plumbing. as I said dosing pumps are only 50 $each nice ones actually 0.4 lt/h each here is a link to the company:
http://www.seko.it/inglese/detergenza/dosatore.htm one is working for a year now perfectly here.

also, everything in that system will need to be cleaned once in a while. the more difficult you make it to come apart, the less often you will want to clean it. i would install the piping with unions or a similar method to make it come apart and be put back together easily.

I agree completely, so look again in the schematic all the parts called connections unscrew and the parts come apart.









I am pretty sure small doses everyday are a very good option.
And yes you will see the finished project I am really near the end maybe 400 $ away now so it will be ok really soon.

And something else there will be a stainless steel pan under the filter modules DIY with a low edge all around sloping very slightly there will be a pipe connected in one corner leading to the output pipe so even is something fails in the tank (water from the tank if it overflows can only go to this pan as-well) or the filter unit water will just flow out of the house plus some other failsafe measures details of which I will give soon together with the automatic water changing drawings









[This message was edited by Freemann on Sat April 05 2003 at 11:54 AM.]


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2003)

Okay, your heachache
Yea, if you have the damn filters laying around, I've never like dosing pumps though.

I've used top off float pump switches and added nutrients to the top off water reservior. These have been easy to use. I'd use just two though. One for traces and one for macro's. No need to separate 4 different pumps.

Make it simple. Life will be better if you do.

Steady state nutrients levels are seldom maintained in nature. They always move around except in a few unique places.

I have been pleased with the Lifeguard products and the pump especially. The pump will more than enough flow.

A smaller bio tower would be better also. A 5 liter tower would be fine. Fill the top 5-10 cm with bio ballas and the bottom with 1/2 lava rock.

I've had the most narly complicated system you could have on a FW tank. But it's much nicer and easier to deal with a verty limited number of things and it's MUCH EASIER to set up.
I get better results with simpler system also especially in the long run.

I understand the techy urge, so go for it if you cannot help yourself







Some folks just have to go this. I was one myself. Triple what you have going on there








It got ugly.

I've been going simpler and simpler ever since.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Freemann (Mar 19, 2004)

Ok this is the electronic diagram of automatic water changes it is a 2 stage description start from the top photo, this is on the stage when timer switches on for a predetermined time to remove the amount of water needed to be changed next one is the aquarium on the the stage with the water on the lower level when fresh water is introduced. There are 2 floater for security reason this floaters will turn on only after the water has lowered enough and will not in case of evaporation.
Bear in mind that when the tank refills again floater will switch off and input will stop
I hope you understand the diagram all comments are welcome








http://www.bellybean.com/~pave/aquaria/images/electric_water_changes_diagram.jpg


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## Guest (Apr 10, 2003)

So what happens if something sticks open/closed? Build in redundancy in at least 2-3 places.

I had several spots that things would stop should something not work right.

Coming home to water on the floor ain't fun. 

What I tend to like are well set up simple devices that are easier to work on/clean etc that are manual.

A quick change water change set up.Something you can drain 70 gallons in about 3 minutes and refill in 5 minutes and not lift a bucket etc.

I can do that a couple of times a week easy. I have never seen a need to do more than 2 x 50% -75% weekly changes for any reason.

I have a mega siphon which does this. The bath has a simple adapter for a fast refill.

I know myself, I'd spend more time monkeying with the auto dose set ups than this.
An Auto top off device is easy and not too bad.

You can also place a simple Ghori style CO2 reactor before the canister filter also.

Regards, 
TomBarr


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## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

hi freeman. i would suggest you take partucular care with the bracket used to hold the float switches to the tank. many times, this type of set-up will fail, due to a loose float switch. so, make doubly sure that you have a very positive method of installation for these switches. i do not like to use a plastic bracket with nylon screws. these will not last long, in good shape, imo. plan these brackets properly, and take some time making them. they are VERY important to your set-up, and will make the difference between water all over the floor or not.

there are a couple of types of these float switches available, that i know of. the mercury type is the one which will last a long time, and operate many times without failure. they have 'motor rated' contacts. there is also a reed type. the reed style switch was devised to operate very quickly, (100 times per sec?) but not designed to handle a large load. while a 10 va solenoid is a very small load, i find the mercury switch to be much more reliable, and would be the correct switch for your application. they are the same price.

there are relays made with neon lights on them, to show when they are activated. there are also relays with a manual push feature, which allows you to operate them manually. these are also great features to have when troubleshooting your system, or simply to see what is going on electrically at a glance when setting things up. i can buy a relay (ice cube style) as i've described for about 10 bucks, so it is not an issue of price, but knowing they are out there. i rarely buy 8 pin relays (2 sets of contacts) when the 11 pin (3 sets of contacts) are readily available. you never know when the other set of contacts wil come in handy.

ensure all wiring is tight, secure and in metal enclosures. i have seen a few of these types of installations, with simply wires thrown everywhere. make sure your wiring is neat. this will be a big help later, when figuring out which wire is which (numbering them is really great too) and will make for a better job in the long run. set things up, fool with your connections with wires nice and long, then once everything is the way you want it, trim them back and neaten them up, tie-wraping in place.

i have heard of water sensors, which operate a switch when water is present. i would strongly advise you to get one, and place it on the floor under the tank. when water is detected, both solenoids should shut off, and maybe an alarm would sound.

these are a few helpful suggestions, but you look like you got things covered. good luck. 

one thing i really like about your project is, that it is only 'semi automatic'. meaning, to start the cycle, user input is required- you need to start the timer yourself to start the water change. this is something i would do also, i don't trust having this type of thing working when i'm not there. 

hth, rick


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## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

a couple of other things come to mind:

when you are finished, you need to ask yourself the 'what if' questions. example: what if power is cycled off to the timer? does it cycle a water change? if so, then you ned to re-think things. things should happen only when you want them to, and they should always work correctly. and as tom says, 'what happens when something fails?' everything fails, and when it does, you want the system to just stop working, not throw water all over the place.

solenoid valves NEED a manual valve to back them up. you want to be able to service the 'empty tank' solenoid, without emptying the tank, right? that is what the manual valve is for. also, the valve can act to limit the water flow when needed- a very helpful thing at times.

rick


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