# magnification needed to distinguish moss types



## spypet (Jul 27, 2007)

I have a collection of mosses that all look and grow exactly the same in my tank, yet the responsible people who traded them to me claim they were originally Taiwan, Xmas, Peacock, Weeping, etc. I have been VERY careful to keep my growing samples apart, and I even discard any moss that breaks loose.

I would like to take an inexpensive magnifier to the moss fronds so I can observe specific leaf patterns in hopes I can better distinguish one group of moss from another. I have found several cheap "mini microscopes" that are illuminated, can be fine focused, and have power ranging from 60x through 100x.

If you imagine the 1x-20x trees in this photo are moss leaves along a frond, it would appear you could get sufficient detail under 100x to see individual leaf structure, and growth patterns along the frond. To the right a penny from 20x to 100x, so I should be able to clearly see distinctive leaf structure very clearly at that magnification with proper lighting.

















In your opinion, is this 100x range of magnification provide enough to detail to tell my moss apart?

http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/specials/SDC3-7545

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290161298740

would a 200x only magnification device be best suited for this type of observation?

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/toys/eye...ing-200x-sends-images-to-tv-screen-277384.php

*OK, I THINK I GOT MY ANSWER... HIJACK AWAY*


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## wiste (Feb 10, 2006)

A digital microscope that can save pictures on the PC would be more useful than any of the options you have listed. The ability to save and reference photos would be a better way to collect useful information. As you have already observed, the growth patterns of the moss can vary significantly based on environmental factors.

A decent digital microscope should support at least 200x.


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## Tiapan (Jun 14, 2006)

i agree, and it isnt easy to find accurate data about how to identify either, even lots of educational media is wrong, or there isnt a way to tell if its right.


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## spypet (Jul 27, 2007)

wiste said:


> A digital microscope that can save pictures on the PC would be more useful than any of the options you have listed. The ability to save and reference photos would be a better way to collect useful information. A decent digital microscope should support at least 200x.


I agree, but such a device costs 10x more than I'm prepared to spend on this casual venture.
I'll be getting the 60x-100x device today, and if found insufficient, at $10 it's still handy to have.
I agree that without 200x, I won't be able to distinguish the leaf vein patterns of individual moss.

Now that I got an answer - someone was considerate enough to PM me this Hijack, so I'll share it;



goalcreas said:


> And I have to wonder, if a moss is just so darn similar to another that it takes 200x of magnification to tell the difference, shouldn't we just consider it the same moss.
> Now I know scientifically it is not the same, but for our use, it should be and should just be sold as MOSS in general, or what.


basically, some mosses are distinctive (Flame or Stringy), while the differences with others may not be detectable (Xmas vs Taiwan), rather they are subjective on how they grow under certain conditions. for example, IMHO weeping moss looks exactly like Taiwan moss, and in most peoples tanks it does not "weep" or grow down or away from the light even after Months of filling out.

*I often wonder if some guy in Taiwan gets his Taiwan moss to grow down, due to light, temperature or some other factor, takes a few nice photographs to help market it, then sells it as "weeping" moss hoping you'll get the same growth pattern results, while he profits.*

My magnification inquiry is simply a way to give me another tool beyond trusting my moss source, and observing my own moss growth characteristics, down to something more tangible such as the leaf details and arrangement at the microscopic frond level.

I'm probably going to order the 60x-100x magnifying device, and post whatever observations I can next week to that thread. there are USB webcams that magnify so I could take a screen shot and post a photo, but those cost $100-$200, or about 10x more than I'm prepared to spend on this venture.



Zapins said:


> Omg I love your moss tank pics.


I'd love to know more about the growing conditions in there.

NOTHING SPECIAL, 5PPM NITRATE & PHOSPHATE, 6.8PH, 76F, 3.5WPG, SOME WATERFLOW, A BIT OF SALT, EXCEL AND POWDER FERTS, DIY CO2.

Are they all grown on rope? YES

Has this proved to be the best way to grow moss for you?

NOT SURE, I JUST DO IT TO OPTIMIZE MY GROWING SPACE, KEEP THE MOSS CLEAN, AND GIVE MY CRABS A PLACE TO CLIMB UP TO THE SURFACE.

CLICK ON THAT MOSS ROPE PHOTO FOR MORE INFORMATION.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/40170-moss-rope-ladder.html

What type of fissidens is in the picture and how long did it take to grow that much?

REGULAR USA FONTANUS, IN ABOUT 3 MONTHS, ORIGINALLY FROM A PINCH OF 3 DOZEN 1CM FRONDS.
NOTICE MY TANK CABINET HAS A MIRROR BACK WHICH MIGHT BE HELPING THE GROWTH SOMEWHAT.

NOTE: SINCE THAT PHOTO WAS TAKEN IN LATE JUNE, MY SUBWASSENTANG BROWNS AT THE EDGES, WHILE ALL OTHER MOSSES CONTINUE TO THRIVE. I'M NOT SURE WHY, BUT HOPEFULLY NOW THAT THE SUMMER IS OVER I'LL BE ABLE TO KEEP MY TANK WATER COOL SO THAT SEAWEED CAN BOUNCE BACK.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

I've seen a "toy" microscope that has a USB connection to the computer on ebay for under 100$.

They magnify up to 200x and can even take video footage (savable to your hard drive) 
here 
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-QX3-Compute...oryZ2568QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That should be more than enough to ID your mosses and its cheap too!


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## spypet (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks Zip, I've been watching the auctions on those $100 Intel USB 200x toy microscopes in hopes I can get one cheap. I also noticed a 150x only pocket LED illuminated microscope that can stand on it's own for around $22 shipped that I may end up getting instead. I will keep you all posted...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150162220001


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## frozenbarb (Feb 8, 2007)

Lol, I think your better sending to Timebomb at Killies.com, cost only around 4-3 and they will Indenfity moss for you, And for sending moss to him he would send any moss you want to you


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## spypet (Jul 27, 2007)

while I'm not willing to invest $63 to check my moss
I was very impressed with this Digital USB Microscope,
it's a much better deal than that old blue Intel model.


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## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

I've been warned to stay away from cheap digital microscopes that can't focus.

If this one lets you focus, it's probably a good deal.


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