# Giving dirt a try.



## Dude (Nov 14, 2018)

I've been intrigued by the idea of dirted tanks for a while now and I think I'm ready to give it a try. But first, I feel I need some clarification on a few things.

First is the presence of organic material in the soil. The often recommended Miracle Gro Organic potting soil is said to be very high in organic substances and seems to work well for many people. Then there's the idea of using top soil with as little organic material as possible, and mineralising what little is there. And I'm confused. Am I missing something?

Next is clay. I've read many people claiming high iron red clays helps keep red plants red. And others seem to question whether the iron in the clay is in a form that's available for the plants to utilize. There's also the plain gravel clay like kitty litter without any additives. I don't think I came across any conflicting opinions on the benefits of that.

There's also the cap over the dirt. It sounds like a lot of people use sand, but from how I understand the process is supposed to work gravel would be better as it would allow fish waste and whatnot to more easily reach the dirt underneath. But, too large of a grain of gravel and some plants might have trouble getting their roots through, correct? Also, the depth of the dirt shouldn't exceed 1.5 inches. But is that wet or dry?

I think those are my main concerns so far. That said, here's what my current plan looks like.

20 Gallon tall
Whitney Farms Organic planting soil. It's just what I happen to have on hand. It seems to be made of 100% organic materials, similar to Miracle Gro. The ingredients listed on the website are a little different from what's on my bag: "This product is formulated from organic materials (including one or more of the following: processed forest products, peat humus, compost, rice hulls and/or coir), sphagnum peat moss, poultry litter, alfalfa meal, and kelp meal." Given that, I reckon I should try to mineralize it as much as I can and add something like plain kitty litter, yes? If so, should the litter be added whole, or crushed up into finer bits?
CaribSea Peace River gravel to top the soil. Is that grain size too small?
Peace River
Average Small Grain Size: 1.0 mm 
Average Large Grain Size: 2.0 mm
Beamswork DA FSPEC 24" for the light. I've read it's pretty bright so I'll be getting a dimmer just in case.
Aqueon QuietFlow 10 for circulation and some filtration. I'll be sure not to use any carbon in it. I would normally add an airstone too, but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere around here that too much surface agitation can reduce the CO2 in the water and isn't necessary with a high plant load.
I feel I should also add some information about my water. The ph is around 8.2, with a GH and KH about 15 or 16 degrees.

As for the stocking, I haven't decided on that yet. I'd like to try some red plants like Alternanthera reineckii. Some swords, cabomba, crypts, java fern, anubias. Maybe some anacharis, but that stuff grows almost too fast and I hate throwing it away. And for fish nothing fancy. Definitely some cory cats (no aquarium is complete without them, imo), maybe some oto cats if algae starts becoming an issue, and regular guppies. If this works I might look into other fish. Snails and shrimp too, of course.

Sorry if this is a lot to throw out there at once. I just really want to start things off on the right foot. Does this sound like a recipe for success or frustration and failure?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Welcome to APC!

There is more than one opinion about how to best use soil in an aquarium. There is the "Mineralized Topsoil" opinion, which recommends mineralizing any natural soil, to convert nitrogen as ammonia based molecules to nitrogen as nitrates. Then, there is the El Natural opinion, which recommends just using the soil as is, and let nature do the modifications of the nitrogen in the soil. Many people follow each method, so obviously both work.

Iron as iron oxides is not bioavailable, because it isn't soluble in water - the iron ions are not separated from the oxygen ions. Chelated iron is available to plants. And natural iron which bacteria have converted to soluble forms is available. So, the iron which makes clay red isn't an available source of iron for plants until bacteria work on it. Iron in fertilizers is chelated and it is cheap in that form.

For years it has been recommended that "sand" be 2mm particles or a bit larger, not smaller. One form of sand that meets that grain size is the sand sold for use in sand filters for swimming pools - pool filter sand. That is a good recommendation whether dirt is used or not.

"Top soil" sold in bags and mixed up by the manufacturer shouldn't contain poultry litter except in very small amounts, if you are going to use it in an aquarium.

I'm sure others will offer their answers to these and other questions, too.


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## lsantagostini (Aug 24, 2018)

Dude said:


> I've been intrigued by the idea of dirted tanks for a while now and I think I'm ready to give it a try. But first, I feel I need some clarification on a few things.
> 
> First is the presence of organic material in the soil. The often recommended Miracle Gro Organic potting soil is said to be very high in organic substances and seems to work well for many people. Then there's the idea of using top soil with as little organic material as possible, and mineralising what little is there. And I'm confused. Am I missing something?
> 
> ...


Hello Dude, and welcome to the forum. Since i am a newbie, i cannot give to you my advice.
But for me worked a mix of, dirt fertilized with chicken poop, earthworm humus, and pine wood compost. And for de cap prodac inert sand (granulometry ~ 1mm). One inch of the mix one inch of prodac inert sand.

Hope that helps!

Regards,
Leonardo


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## Dude (Nov 14, 2018)

Thanks for the replies. 



All of my supplies arrived and I'm currently trying to mineralize the soil. It has been sitting outside for several days and was mostly dry so I sifted it and brought it inside. Good timing since it's currently raining. I'll definitely wet and dry it a few more times until it it has no more smell like the mineralization guide recommends. I may need to add more to it since the sifting removed so much. With the cooler weather the drying process is taking pretty long, which I guess could be a good thing. No matter, I'm patient.


It sounds like iron rich clay can be effective, but more as a slow release. Good to know. I don't think I'll bother with it for now.


Even though the sand/gravel I got is advertised as 1 to 2 millimeters, upon further research it looks like most of the grains are 2 millimeters or larger. It certainly doesn't look like it's any finer than the images of pool filter sand I found. I'm thinking it should be okay. The only issue with it is I apparently didn't read the description too well and I got the so-called "Instant Aquarium" variant. It's supposed to be biologically active and begin cycling immediately. Now, I don't know too much about beneficial bacteria, but feel like being sealed in a plastic bag for who knows how long probably isn't too good for them. It says no rinsing required, but I might do so anyway. If anything, I'll add some mulm and water from one of my other tanks.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I think that your Whitney organic soil would be just fine. It should have a nice earthy smell, signifying that everything is nicely decomposed.

Organic matter gives off CO2, thereby getting plants off to a good start in a new tank, especially an NPT (Natural Planted Tank). With water like yours--high pH and GH--, the plants should grow like crazy with this soil/water combination. Welcome fast-growing plants and toss out the excess.

All that sifting could be counterproductive. When you reduce the particle size to tiny, tiny pieces, you speed up the decomposition, which is not what we want. You want _gradual_ decomposition. Bigger pieces take longer to decay. That way, the soil doesn't flood with nutrients right off the bat.

Just pick out the bigger pieces (tree limbs, etc  and keep the rest.

My book _Ecology of the Planted Aquarium_ and my article on small tanks for pet shrimp has useful information about using soil. Here is the link for the article, which is freely downloadable.

https://dianawalstad.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/shrimprcs2017.pdf


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## Gerald (Mar 24, 2008)

The Fe+3 ions in red clay are not soluble, as Hoppy says, but they reduce to Fe+2 pretty quickly when the heterotrophic bacteria in the substrate lower the oxygen content. The Fe+2 ions then become available to plants, so yes red clay becomes a good iron source under submerged conditions.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Gerald said:


> The Fe+3 ions in red clay are not soluble, as Hoppy says, but they reduce to Fe+2 pretty quickly when the heterotrophic bacteria in the substrate lower the oxygen content. The Fe+2 ions then become available to plants, so yes red clay becomes a good iron source under submerged conditions.


How true! And if you mix an organic soil (promotes decomposition via heterotrophic bacteria) with an iron-rich soil, the mixture will produce _lots_ of soluble iron (Fe+2). Excessive iron in the substrate will kill plant roots. You'll see plants floating to the surface. Then, the iron will leach into the water and stimulate algae.

It's happened to me after mixing laterite clay with an organic soil. That's why I recommend that you don't mix soils.


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## Dude (Nov 14, 2018)

dwalstad said:


> I think that your Whitney organic soil would be just fine. It should have a nice earthy smell, signifying that everything is nicely decomposed.
> 
> Organic matter gives off CO2, thereby getting plants off to a good start in a new tank, especially an NPT (Natural Planted Tank). With water like yours--high pH and GH--, the plants should grow like crazy with this soil/water combination. Welcome fast-growing plants and toss out the excess.
> 
> ...


Thank you, that's very encouraging.

I saved everything I sifted, removed the largest pieces, and added the rest back to the soil. Good thing I did, because it ended up being just over an inch deep in the tank. Likewise, the amount of gravel I got is also slightly more than an inch thick. I wasn't sure it was going to be enough at first. I don't plan on rearranging the plants much, if at all, so hopefully it's not too thin. The water stayed clear after filling so I think that's a good sign.


As for the plants, here's what I've got in there so far:

Red Rubin Sword
Hygro Wisteria (difformis?)
Ludwigia Ovalis
Broad Leaf Sag
Staurogyne Repens
Dwarf Hairgrass
Ammania Gracilis
Cardinal Plant
Java Fern

After turning on my light the hygro, sword, and cardinal plant almost immediately started pearling. At first I thought it was just bubbles from filling up the tank. But the bubbles were a steady, slow stream. The cardinal plant in particular is producing really fat bubbles, albeit at a reduced rate. It's really cool. I've never had that happen with any of my plants before. So if nothing else at least I know my light is finally bright enough. And since I've got it on a dimmer it's not even at full brightness.

The small HOB filter is producing very little surface agitation while still providing decent circulation.

I ordered the plants through the mail so time will tell how they do long term. Fingers crossed.

My camera is garbage, but the pictures should give you some idea of what I've got going on.
​


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## Dude (Nov 14, 2018)

Alright, time for an update.

*Red Rubin Sword* - Doing good. It has sent out a new leaf or two every week. No melting.
*Hygro difformis* - They had no roots when I got them so they started off pretty slow. They've pretty much doubled in size. The newer leaves are starting to get that distinctive pointed, feathery appearance instead of the less interesting round leaves. The biggest one seems to have slowed it's vertical growth and is instead sending out branches from the lower section.
*Ludwigia Ovalis* - This has done the worst, despite coming with healthy looking roots. The roots and bottom portion turned to mush and the top has only produced a few tiny leaves. The future does not look good for this one.
*Broad Leaf Sag* - Nice steady growth on these. 
*Staurogyne Repens* - They came in pretty tall so I wanted to wait for their roots to get established before trimming and replanting these. After doing so both the original plants and the trimmings have new growth. Not the fastest growers. One of them had some branches with different leaves that were growing really dense that melted away. All the regular leaves were unaffected.
*Dwarf Hairgrass* - Quite a bit of it turned brown and died back. From what I've read that's not too uncommon with this stuff. There is new growth though. 
*Ammania Gracilis* - I don't think these had any roots when I got them. And they looked very different from the picture on the website I got them from. However, all the new growth on these does look more like what I was expecting. Kinda slow growing.
*Cardinal Plant (Lobelia Cardinalis)* - Probably doing the best out of everything. It's sending out lots of branches at almost every node and is getting really nice and bushy. Really digging these plants.
*Java Fern* - These are just tiny baby plants but even they've grown a decent amount and have new leaves coming out.

Almost a week ago I also added a couple strands of anacharis and cabomba from another tank. It's full of BBA so I dipped them in peroxide for a couple minutes and rinsed them off before putting them in this tank. The anacharis was doing good for a few days but now it's looking kinda ragged. I'm guessing a bad reaction to the peroxide. It'll probably bounce back. The cabomba took a few days to perk up, but I think it's starting to get established. The algae doesn't seem to have spread (yet) so fingers crossed.
I also stuck a piece of pothos in the filter. I'm not sure if it's because it's not getting enough light or something, but the bit in the water just keeps turning to mush. Probably going to have to just pot it and put it somewhere else.

As for the water, it started out clear and has stayed that way. Although it does look like tea now. I think that's more due to the tannins from the wood than from the dirt. The plants arrived sooner than I expected so I didn't have time to soak and boil it as much as I intended. I know tannins are actually supposed to be kinda good for fish in some way, but the water is so dark I think it might actually be holding the plants back. It's also why I haven't included any pictures in this update. The tank is too dark for anything to show up on my very crappy camera. I'll probably do a 50% water change.

The water parameters look good.

pH - 8.2 
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - ~20

Also, I noticed some little creatures swimming around. They kinda remind me of newly hatched triops, but smaller. I don't know if they're from the dirt or hitchhikers from the plants.


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## zolteeC (Dec 26, 2017)

Dude said:


> Alright, time for an update.
> 
> *Red Rubin Sword* - Doing good. It has sent out a new leaf or two every week. No melting.
> *Hygro difformis* - They had no roots when I got them so they started off pretty slow. They've pretty much doubled in size. The newer leaves are starting to get that distinctive pointed, feathery appearance instead of the less interesting round leaves. The biggest one seems to have slowed it's vertical growth and is instead sending out branches from the lower section.
> ...


You don't need to soak and boil the soil. So I would not worry about that.


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## Dude (Nov 14, 2018)

I was referring to the wood.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

We don't normally use activated carbon in Walstad tanks, but some in the filter will take the tannin out of the water quickly. Just leave it in until the water clears, then take it out.


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## Dude (Nov 14, 2018)

That would be preferable to doing a water change?


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Either one will work. You will probably need to do several water changes to remove all the tannin--more will keep coming out of the soil and wood after the first change. Carbon is easier. The best solution might be to do a large water change, then put the carbon in the filter.


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## Dude (Nov 14, 2018)

I added carbon and after about 3 days didn't see any difference so I did a 50% water change. Big difference. The tank was significantly brighter. 

The hygrophila has really taken off and some of it has reached the surface. The cardinal plant isn't far behind. I'm surprised it's not a more common plant given how easy it seems to be to grow. And it looks great. The red rubin sword is putting out a new leaf about every four days. The dwarf hairgrass is slowly spreading. The cabomba has done what it always does in my tanks and broken up into several pieces. Some parts still have roots and are growing new branches so it might still make it. 

I've noticed holes on a few leaves of different plants. But I think that might be from the snails rather than some sort of deficiency. There's essentially no algae so they're probably just eating whatever they can. The only algae I've seen was some green strings hanging off the water return of the filter. The lighting schedule is 7 hours on, 1 off, then 4 more hours on. The wall facing the tank gets a couple hours of direct sunlight in the morning that kinda reflects on the tank.

A few days before I did the water change I added four bronze corys as a test. The day after the water change there were eggs all over the place. The catfish are still kinda small so I was surprised they were able to reproduce. I don't know if they ate any of the eggs but some of the snails sure did. Unfortunately, one of the corys died a few days ago. For several days before it died it had been swimming to the surface for air more and more frequently; the other three almost never do. I don't know if it was some issue with the tank or if it was already sick. Its tail and dorsal fin did look a little deteriorated. But I think it was like that when I put it in. The other fish in the tank still seem to be healthy and actually spawned again earlier today. I'll be keeping a close eye on them, and the tank they came from.



Not sure how to embed images in my post instead of adding them as attachments, but the first one should be from after doing the water change about a week and a half ago. The rest are from today. Big difference in the amount of growth, even though the tannins have returned. That's why the images are so dark. I really need to get a decent camera.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

We don't usually use as much as 11 hours of light a day. The usual standard is about 8 hours a day. I suggest you switch to 4 hours on, an hour or more off, and 4 more hours on.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

hoppycalif said:


> We don't usually us as much as 11 hours of light a day. The usual standard is about 8 hours a day. I suggest you switch to 4 hours on, an hour or more off, and 4 more hours on.


didnt the siesta thing prove to be ineffective?


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## JoanToBa (Aug 23, 2018)

DutchMuch said:


> hoppycalif said:
> 
> 
> > We don't usually us as much as 11 hours of light a day. The usual standard is about 8 hours a day. I suggest you switch to 4 hours on, an hour or more off, and 4 more hours on.
> ...


I don't think so:

https://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/67271-lighting-siesta-co2.html#/topics/67271


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

JoanToBa said:


> I don't think so:
> 
> https://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/67271-lighting-siesta-co2.html#/topics/67271


here's a topic about it that ISNT made by the creator of the method :/

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/713530-siesta-period-who-does.html

Tom barrs thoughts on it:

"To do any cause of effective control test with algae, you must first induce algae growth and then do any treatment.

This way you have the same starting point and relative place to compare treatments and rep's.

This is very basic stuff, but few hobbyists seem to have any idea about how to go about it, since most just want to the algae to go away and really do not care about why it is there in the first place.

They might even care, however, not enough to induce the algae and then research treatment methods.

And that is really the bottom line why so many myths, issues and really lack of knowledge about algae.

As far as I know, myself and a few others are the only people that have looked at specific cause. I've never met a single hobbyists that has done any real test for inducement.

Think about it, if you know what starts an algae bloom, then you know the cause specifically. Then you can prevent it and prevent new growth occurrence.
This concept is lost on many. Some would rather claim PO4 causes algae and carry on like wind bags without doing anything to answer the real question.

Yack yack and no work, no test, they just are "smart". I'm not so smart and know it, so I have to use methods to make sure what I do and what I conclude is well founded and is reasonable.

That's why I start at the same place when comparing treatments to a specific species of algae. Not doing so, not acknowledging this etc....you make yourself look foolish to anyone that's done any testing with algae. The Do Nothings really have no opus to say anything about algae cause.

I do not make good friends with Do nothings, but that's tough.
That's their problem. Show me a test, show me how the method/test results you use supports the question you ask.

Then do the test and repeat it a few times, under a few different conditions, treatments etc. Let us know you gave things some consideration and the problems you found a long the way.

Speculation is fun, but does not answer the question.
IME and IMO, siesta does little and only reduces the CO2 demand for a bit to help the plants, thus is a indirect effect, one that does not address/answer the root cause: why you have algae in the first place.

Then if you address the root cause, then go back and test the siesta, now we see if has no effect. We induce the algae again, and it still does not...........

So the results are fairly clear to me.
The rest of the folks, and a horde of me too's hop on board and act like a mob.........

I've seen this 100X at least over the years.
20-30x on this one subject
And still the myth is continued.
Does not matter what results or what I say, the myth will keep going.

Regards,
Tom Barr"

More links to info:
https://barrreport.com/threads/split-photo-period-siesta-pros-cons.4693/
https://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/threads/siesta-for-lighting-to-combat-algae.53703/
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/midday-lighting-pause-siesta-in-tanks-without-co2.36013/page-2


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I think it has been demonstrated that biologic activity in the substrate does result in CO2 being produced. It has also been demonstrated that the rate of production of that CO2 isn't high enough to equal the plants usage of the CO2. So, if you have a recess in the lighting, an hour or more, the amount of CO2 dissolved in the water will go up enough to significantly improve the plant growth by making more CO2 available to the plants during the second half of the photoperiod. This is not a "kill the algae" method. It is a "healthy plants" method. And, that has long been the basic "good plants with little algae" method that Tom Barr recommends - grow good healthy plants.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Hoppy, nicely and briefly put. Thank you.


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## Dude (Nov 14, 2018)

hoppycalif said:


> We don't usually use as much as 11 hours of light a day. The usual standard is about 8 hours a day. I suggest you switch to 4 hours on, an hour or more off, and 4 more hours on.


Well, I don't think less light will suddenly cause algae issues so I suppose I'll try the split 8 hours. Besides, in the two days since my last post the cardinal plant has also reached the surface of the water. I continue to be impressed with those plants. I probably ought to trim and replant them soon.


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## Dude (Nov 14, 2018)

I've been noticing some small eruptions of bubbles from the substrate lately. I always make sure to take a quick whiff to see if there's any foul odors but it just smells like dirt. Is it anything to be concerned about or is it just a nice supply of CO2?


There is now algae. A bit of green on the glass that's facing a window, and a bunch of branching green stringy stuff attached to the hygro and cardinal plants near the surface. It's fairly easy to remove due most of it having singular points of contact with the plants and branching off from there. 



What started as the smallest hygro is now the biggest having reached the surface and growing across about two thirds of the top of the tank. Also has the most algae on it. Some of them have horizontally growing branches near the substrate that are shooting roots down at every leaf node. One of the hygros on the other side of the tank has lots of holes in the leaves. I'm blaming snails. Oddly enough, that one also pearls the most. Snails also seem to be going after the sword. Mostly newer growth. Some of the outer leaves on the broad leaf sag are browning and melting. A lot of the hairgrass is also browning, but that's probably due to all the shade from the hygro. I definitely need to do some trimming. 


I've added three male guppies as another test after the success with the corydoras. So far they've done really well in there. Eventually I want to get some type of gourami or ram.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Dude said:


> I've been noticing some small eruptions of bubbles from the substrate lately. I always make sure to take a quick whiff to see if there's any foul odors but it just smells like dirt. Is it anything to be concerned about or is it just a nice supply of CO2?


We could just look at substrate bubbling as supplying free CO2. However, the bubbling combined with leaf browning of rooted plants means that your substrate has gone too anaerobic. Rooted plants should be throwing out lots of vibrant new leaves, not browning.

I would gently poke the substrate with a long thin object (e.g., pencil, long nail, etc) to introduce oxygenated water. This will help your rooted plants. Their roots cannot survive in a severely anaerobic substrate. And if plants start dying in mass you could have a "substrate meltdown."

I would give poking and matt algae removal priority over plant trimming. (For my tanks that have matt algae, I routinely swizzle and twist the stringy stuff onto an old toothbrush.)

New tank setups require extra attention first 2-3 months. I would do gentle poking every day or so until I saw a marked decline in bubble release from this substrate. Hopefully, your rooted plants will be able to recover.


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## Dude (Nov 14, 2018)

I did a lot of poking and released a lot of bubbles. There was some foul odor. The largest amount of bubbles seemed to be around the plants that were struggling the most. I will try to make a a routine out of poking the substrate. In another tank I've got tons of tiny nocturnal snails that burrow in sand during the day. Don't know what kind they are but the largest are maybe half a centimeter. Would they be of any help with the substrate?

As for the algae, removing it is proving to be a bit more difficult than I thought. I got a good couple handfuls out, but a lot of it breaks off close to the plant leaves and just regrows. It's not as soft and hair-like as some green algae. It's a little more firm and coarse. Not my pictures but it's the best representation of what I've got that I could find. Hopefully these embed correctly.



















Speaking of algae, it seems like the anacharis in my 20 gallon long finally out competed the green algae that was covering it. It would be hard to measure it all, but there's easily 20 feet of the stuff. I removed a lot of it just so light could reach the small swords at the bottom. Most of it is floating but the portions that are planted have surprisingly extensive roots. There are still some small sections with some algae hanging on, but nothing too significant. There are also areas with tufts of what I think is black bearded algae. It actually looks kinda neat. Like small dark fluffy bushes on the wood and airstone. Some of the snails also have large tails of the stuff. Almost like a peacock.

Any trimming would be just to unclutter the surface for better light penetration and would be replanted. Not removal of plants. Except maybe some leaves that have too much algae to remove.


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## zolteeC (Dec 26, 2017)

That's an interesting looking algae on your first picture.

Can someone identify it to some extent? Cladophora?


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## mysiak (Jan 17, 2018)

I had Java moss infested with this algae (Cladophora I believe). Removed tons of it every week (a wooden skewer or an old toothbrush were my best friends). Caridina japonica shrimp slowed down the expansion a bit, but didn't help too much (probably didn't have enough of them). As the tank matured, amount of algae decreased significantly, but I still found a few strings every now and then. 

I've just realized, that since I added Macrobrachyum dayana shrimp to the tank, I don't see this algae anymore. And along with the algae disappearance, I don't see Stringy moss and Flame moss too.. Used to throw out a handful of moss very often


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Dude said:


> I did a lot of poking and released a lot of bubbles. There was some foul odor. The largest amount of bubbles seemed to be around the plants that were struggling the most. I will try to make a a routine out of poking the substrate. In another tank I've got tons of tiny nocturnal snails that burrow in sand during the day. Don't know what kind they are but the largest are maybe half a centimeter. Would they be of any help with the substrate?


Sounds like you've identified the problem. Anything that burrows into the substrate would help aerate it.


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## Dude (Nov 14, 2018)

Sounds good. The only problem is the tank they're in has a much finer sand than the dirted tank. A lot of the snails are the same size as the grains of sand. I don't know how well they'll be able to dig through it. Still worth a try I suppose.


Regarding the algae, I checked out some images of cladophora algae and it seems to be a match. Some people claim Excel can help. I'll try that and see if it helps. I've also been wanting to get some amanos, but the last time I was at Petco their tanks had an ich outbreak and they were unable to sell any. It sucks that they're the closest thing I have to a local fish store as a lot of their fish tend to not look very healthy. It's pretty easy to find a dead fish in at least a few of their tanks.


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