# I have algae with some frisky personality! Any help greatly appreciated.



## Revernance (Aug 20, 2007)

Hi everyone!  
Thanks for reading this.

I set up my tank about 1.5 months ago, and I've been having some algae outbreak (brown hair algae, it seems  It is 29 gal, dimensions 30 inches long, 19 inches high. It may look normal in pictures, but the tank look like someone threw brown kitty fur in there. 
[sorry about the slanted plants, I forgot to adjust my powerhead!] 









My tank stats: 
Soil: Topsoil from my backyard. I've successfully used this soil in my 10g NPT. 
pH: 7.0-7.5
hardness: moderately hard
nitrite=0
ammonia=0
Lighting is 80 watts, 6500 K shoplight from homedepot, so about 2.7 watts per gallon. 
Fishload: 10 Neons, 4 harlequin rasboras, 2 bolivian rams.









There are two cute Bolivian rams that just spends half the day in this cave. They are too shy right now. 
















I've been searching this forum and reading some advice that people have had with algae. 
This is what I got: 


*2 Votes for adding co2 to fight algae. Diana says that increased level of co2 will only work if you have healthy plants that

can use it, or else algae will grow faster with additional co2. 
*2 Votes for adding otto catfish to eat off the algae. I currently have 3 
*2 Votes for adding rosy barbs. I have not done this, because I don't want them to nip on my Bolivian rams! 
*1 Vote for reducing light period to 8 hours. I have it set for 12 hours.

Please help me! I've never been so confused before! There are so many variables I just don't know where to start!  
Thank you so much! 
Oooh, and I throw buckets of Salvinia away LOL.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

What is the Nitrate level?

Ammonia and Nitrite will be 0 ppm in a cycled tank, or a heavily planted tank. 
If your tank is also showing 0 ppm nitrate then I might suggest the plants are starving for nitrogen, and this slows down their growth, so the algae takes advantage of the other nutrients that the plants are not removing and grows.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Are you sure that you are not dealing with an excess of mulm. Looks to me like you have more an issue of excess mulm covered by diatom algae which makes it look like brown stringy algae. When you touch it and rub it in your hands, is it slimy or more spongy? If this is mulm, I would siphon off as much as I could and get yourself a good diatom filter to clear out the excess organic waste in your tank that may be contributing to it. As far as diatom algae, just get your self shrimp(amano) or otocats and they should take care of the diatom algae.


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## Revernance (Aug 20, 2007)

Diana K - I need to get a new nitrate test kit before I can verify this.  If i had to guess, I think I should have measurable nitrate level because I feed generously, and have a moderate to high fish population.  

Homer simpson - I tried to suck the brown stuff out with a gravel vacuum, but it doesn't bulge, it sticks to the plant. When I pull it out of the water by hand, it is very slimy.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

O.k. I had something similiar develop in my 40 gallon non-natural planted tank and I believe that it was caused by excess organic waste buildup from excessive mulm buildup in the substrate, overfeeding, lack of substrate vacuuming, and heavy fish load. This is the non-natural planted solution that worked for me. Manually removed as much of the stuff as I could, reduced feeding to once every 2-3 days, increased water changes to two times a week vacuuming substrate each time, reduced photoperiod to 7.5 hours/ day, purchased otocats, Bristlenose Pleco, and Siamese Algae Eater that helped consume it. It took 3 months for the algae to totally disappear.


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

I had the green sticky stuff in my 20g-long and it took about a month to get rid of. It was so bad, that if you dipped a plastic cup in, it would stain green (surface scum). This was a starter too.
I can't say one thing worked but did multiple things.
1) covered soil line exposed to sun with black paper - probably not a problem since it's winter.
2) got a HOB filter. I changed the carbon for the first week every two days, and man I repacked with a lot of carbon (used the same filter medium that came with it). Of course rinsed off the filter median.
3) Changed the light - went straight for cool white (4200k). Good for plants and won't seperate the iron from the DOC. Algae love Iron. I think this was one the best changes
4) bought red cherry shrimp - not enough to really help but at least algae eaters. Of course it brought in solution 5)
5) Snails. Had some from the 2.5g and from the plants I bought extra. But some came in with the RCS. I have pond snails, a few ram horns and a few spiral (cone?).
Most importantly is there seems to be two distinct pond snail types in my tanks. They both look the same except that the foot (the part that crawls) is longer on one of them. If you saw it you would notice. Anyways the long footed ones came with the RCS. They seem to eat a lot of algae.
Now I know animals aren't suppose to be the way to go, but it definately helped. I saw these snails clean my Penny wort, clean on the top then the bottom. I mean that plant was about to die.
6) Fast growers - lots of them. Duckweed, anacharis, hormwort, penny wort, HM. You name it. My tank still looks crowded but that's another story. Your bio-load maybe heavier than mine so you may need more than me.
7) Hand picked/vacuumed if I could. Really hard since the algae seems to really stick. Later when the algae starts to loose ground, it should be easier to pickup. Also if duckweed roots get algae, take those out. Kind of two birds with one stone on that one.

My 20g was cycling at the time, and the algea ended around the time cycling ended.
But since I had to cycle means I didn't have enough plants. Never had any Am or NO problems in the 2.5 gallon.

The 2.5 gallon had a slight problem of algae on the rim, but just took out the duckweed that was covered and let everything grow. The algae eventually came out in long strips.

Since then I have had no algae problems.
2.5 g will be a year in Feb.
the 20 g - long will be 6 months in Mar. - it will be interesting if the increase in sun will cause an algae bloom, so I'm waiting on the that one.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Revernance said:


> Hi everyone!
> Thanks for reading this.
> 
> I set up my tank about 1.5 months ago, and I've been having some algae outbreak (brown hair algae, it seems  It is 29 gal, dimensions 30 inches long, 19 inches high. It may look normal in pictures, but the tank look like someone threw brown kitty fur in there.
> ...


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## Revernance (Aug 20, 2007)

Homer Simpson- Unfortunately, due to my absence at the house while while at college, I won't have much time to tend to the care. Most of it will be passed on to my sister and mom lol.  Thanks for the suggestion- I will buy 2-3 more ottocats, and reduce photoperiod to 7.5 hours. ]

Newbie314- You are right, I heard that cool white bulbs are best for plant growth. I'm using a GE plant grow bulb, with CRI rating of 90, which I've heard is excellent for plant growth. I've tried handpicking and vacuuming, but the stuff keeps coming back the next day. 
Since the tank was made for my mom, I can't put snails in there because she's terrified of them! 

Ms. Walstad- I am using topsoil from my backyard. I've used it in my 10 gallon NPT, and the plants are growing wonderfully. In the 10 gal, the crypt, HC are growing. I'm assuming that the soil should be good? I just don't understand why the soil is having a hard time in the 29 gallon.  
Almost every week I have to throw buckets of salinia away. But I leave about 75 percent in the tank. Thank you for the assurance on the nitrate, I needed that because I was about to add some more.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Revernance said:


> Ms. Walstad- I am using topsoil from my backyard. I've used it in my 10 gallon NPT, and the plants are growing wonderfully. In the 10 gal, the crypt, HC are growing. I'm assuming that the soil should be good? I just don't understand why the soil is having a hard time in the 29 gallon.
> Almost every week I have to throw buckets of salinia away. But I leave about 75 percent in the tank. Thank you for the assurance on the nitrate, I needed that because I was about to add some more.


So you are using a tested soil.... It seems you have done everything right.

Unfortunately, the algae you have can't be killed by antibiotics (blue-green), hand removal (matt algae), scraping the glass (diatoms), and a UV filter (green-water algae). Your options are limited.

It's possible that the tank will improve with time. The Salvinia will certainly help keep the water good for fish and help with algae control. However, you'll need good _rooted plant _growth to keep the substrate from become increasingly anaerobic and hostile to plants. I would try to remove some of the plants that don't seem to be doing well and replace them with species that are doing well.

I'd also try to get your mom to accept snails. An NPT is a natural ecosystem of fish, invertebrates (snails), and plants. Snails recycle nutrients and eat algae.

Good luck!


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## Mr Fishies (Apr 9, 2006)

Maybe my suggestion doesn't fall under the El Natural creed of "Let nature sort itself out", then again, neither do manual intervention, UV or anti-biotics, but I've used Hydrogen Peroxide (H202) from the pharmacy (3%) to treat a bad algae outbreak in the past with great results and no fatalities.

I spot treated at first out of caution and to see if it would work and I've also dosed my 50G with 60 ml/2 oz (a little over 1 ml/gal) with no issues. At low concentrations, it oxidizes and breaks down the simple cell walls of algae without harming plants and fish.

Here's a link to an old post of mine that was migrated over from the old site this forum used to live on, pictures were lost, but the links and content are still valid.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/19100-wet-thumb-forum-plant-vs-algae.html


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## Revernance (Aug 20, 2007)

Ms. Walstad - Thank you. Currently my tank has no more space to put in extra plants. However, I will add some snails and also try to replace plants with healthy growing plants.  

Mr. Fishies- I like your idea. I will take that into consideration. Since you've done it before, I hope you won't mind if I may ask you some questions about it in the near future if I choose to pursue that route!


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## Gilles (Oct 12, 2007)

Please note that i don't see any water values that really matter (phosphate (PO4) and nitrate (NO3)). Please measure these with a drop set (not with those test strips) or let the water of your aquarium be tested by your local fish shop. I would love to see these since my concern is that you either have to much nitrates or phosphates which cause an imbalance. Do you add any fertilizer?

And: H202 is commonly used for BGA, i have not seen it being used for the type of algue you have.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

I have recommended H202 on occasion and have tried it myself with mixed results. It does nothing for diatom algae, green spot algae, and green dust algae, not surprisingly. It has no effect on fungi growths like Saprolegnia on dead matter. It works at killing Blue Green Algae, thread algae, hair algae, black beard algae, at least in my experience. I once stupidly soaked a plant I was transferring in a mild solution 1ml/gallon of h202/water, roots and all. Big mistake, as soon as the plant was transplanted into the new tank, roots began rotting due to the h202 treatment. Before, I knew it(matter of days), the whole substrate went anaerobic and I had to tear the tank down. So, whatever you do don't hit plant roots with h202. Also, keep in mind that while h202 has been touted as safe, there are some who claim that their fish have died when they tried it(see the comments from Bill Zdarko in this article:
http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide2.html. Some suggest that it could burn fish gills if the fish swim too closely to the treated plants.


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