# same old soil chaos



## gato (Nov 24, 2009)

ehm, sorry for being so insistent, but I prefer dealing with small problems than let them become big 
Ok, now is the time for the brown algae, I think..
Is like brown dusty dirt on the leafs surface, but is not fish poo.
What should I do?
How frequent water changes?
I have a light period of 10 hours, should I reduce it?
pH 8, should I reduce it? How?
What else, sorry again for being boring.
g


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## El Exorcisto (Aug 10, 2006)

You're dealing with diatoms, which are an inevitability with some water sources. Don't change your water, don't adjust your parameters, just let it work out. Wipe them off of what leaves you can, trim and replant what you cannot if possible.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

If you really want to alter the pH then test and post the results:

Tap water pH, and repeat the test on tap water that has been standing for 24-48 hours. 
Tap water GH. 
Tap water KH. 

Tank GH and KH. 

List all the additives, fertilizer, pH Up or Down products, water filtration system, and similar things. 

What kinds of fish are you keeping, and are you interested in breeding them?

Why do you want to change the pH? 
Fish and plants are not usually too particular about pH. They are more interested in the mineral content of the water, so the GH and KH are really the parameters you want to look at.


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## gato (Nov 24, 2009)

Thanks Diana K, I don't really want to change the pH, but in the Walstad's book there's a chapter about the alkaline advantage of algae, if I do not mistake. I'm just trying to prevent problems, but probably I should just wait and see.. 

Anyway..
Tap water: KH 8, GH 9,5, pH 8

tank water: KH 9, GH ?(no test for this), pH 8

filtration: small external filter with a sponge and activated carbon

Fauna: Ancistrus, Otocinclus, Caridina (I want them to live well, no repro yet..)

No other chemical, 3/4 cm of common soil and 3/4 cm of small gravel

I repeat, I don't want to change pH if it's unnecessary, I just want to evitate a diatoms boom.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

gato said:


> I have a light period of 10 hours, should I reduce it?


Sounds like you're having problems. Sorry.

Firstly, you should have a light period of at least 12 hours.

Most importantly, though, are the plants in your tank. If you have plenty of fast-growing, adapted and robust plants, they will take care of algae.

Conversely, if you have few plants or mostly slow-growers, algae will always get the upper hand. Soil chaos is irrelevant.

I suggest that you carefully describe your tank, the plants, the lighting, and send a photo. Otherwise, we are all just guessing as to what the problem is.


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## gato (Nov 24, 2009)

Plants: Vallisineria, Spatyphillum, Microsorium, Cryptocoryne willisii, Cryptocoryne walkeri, Elodea, Limnophila, Hygrpphila, Anubia, Hydrocotyle sp, Riccia fluitans, Vesicularia.

I have two 8 watts bulbs (40 watts incandescent equivalent), I'm using a period of 10 h per day to prevent algae (as a firend of mine suggested me to do in the first month). The tank also recives a couple of hours per day of sunlight.

I think I have a lot of slow growing, but I'm open to introduce new fast growing plants (that require low-medium light), I have some space in the front, so they should be small!

here you can see the tank as it was at the set up, 2 weeks ago (now the elodea, the limnophila and the Hygro are bigger): http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/66995-other-questions-about-fishes-water.html#post508634

ps: this morning I found 3 or 4 long filaments floating from my plants.. hair algae? my new problem?


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

> I have two 8 watts bulbs (40 watts incandescent equivalent)


Keep in mind that 8 watts is still only 8 watts, so a total of 16 watts is pretty modest lighting. While many of your plants are low-light, some of them would certainly appreciate a little boost.

A note on the Cryptocoryne x willisii, it really likes food from the roots and will reward you greatly if you feed it. I say this regarding your open space, as it would make a nice groundcover in front, though it is indeed a slow grower. Something a little faster growing and just as low with good texture would be Stauro.porto vehlo, though it would appreciate a little more lighting IMHO.

I may be talking out of turn here though, as my tank is a bit of a fiasco itself regarding lighting and the plant species I have - but at least it's not green anymore, so that just goes to show that plants will adapt...my problem is having to choose too much light in the top or too little at the substrate, but once the plants figure it all out it's all good.


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## gato (Nov 24, 2009)

Tanks mudboots, what do you think if i put a third 8 watts bulb? 24 watt x 25 gal is good?
And, do you know the latin name of the Stauro.porto vehlo?
what about the photoperiod?


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

> Thanks mudboots, what do you think if i put a third 8 watts bulb? 24 watt x 25 gal is good?
> And, do you know the latin name of the Stauro.porto vehlo?
> what about the photoperiod?


On the plant, _Staurogyne_ is the genus name of several species used in the hobby that I know of, and they, except for _Staurogyne stolonifera_, are all referred to simply as _Staurogyne sp_. followed by the modifier ('low grow', 'porto vehlo', and 'Bihar'). Check the links out on the Plant Finder link at the top of the page in the yellow bar and you can select it by the genus and read a little about each one.

On the lighting, I am only of limited, or less, help. For a 20-25 gallon tank I'd personally want to go with about 2 watts per gallon, but many folks have tremendous success with only 1.25 to 1.5 watts per gallon, and some will say that any more will result in algal blooms. On top of that, my lighting is a lot different than yours. I started off with 1.25 wpg, but was using T5-HO fixtures, and have since beefed that up to a whopping 312 watts of T5-HO over a 125 gallon tank. That's a lot of light, regardless of the watts per gallon (it's PAR, spectral output of your bulbs, et cetera that really counts, watts per gallon is just a guide to get you off to the right start). But I am beaming that light through 23+ inches of water to get to my groundcovers and I don't have the same photoperiod that most NPT-ers use. Basically I'm taking what I have available and making it work so I don't spend more money than I have to and don't have lights sitting around not being used. The more I type the more I think that I may not be the model candidate for answering many of your questions. I seem to break more of the unwritten rules than I follow, but my tanks work for me (after many, many miserable moments); the main thing is to find out what works for you, which takes a little trial and error.:-?

Okay forget what I just typed. Try the 24 watts for a while and see how it works out. I think the plants will adjust and be fine, but I'd recommend letting them get a little sunlight influence a couple hours a day.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

gato said:


> Plants: Vallisineria, Spatyphillum, Microsorium, Cryptocoryne willisii, Cryptocoryne walkeri, Elodea, Limnophila, Hygrpphila, Anubia, Hydrocotyle sp, Riccia fluitans, Vesicularia.
> here you can see the tank as it was at the set up, 2 weeks ago (now the elodea, the limnophila and the Hygro are bigger): http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/66995-other-questions-about-fishes-water.html#post508634
> 
> ps: this morning I found 3 or 4 long filaments floating from my plants.. hair algae? my new problem?


In going back to your earlier post where you were maintaining tank at 20-21C. I wrote to you: "Your temperature is considerably lower than the tropical temperatures that most aquarium plants require. I would set 22C (72F) as a bare minimum for decent plant growth. Tank looks nice, but tropical plants won't grow without moderately warm temperatures."

Are you still running your aquarium at 20-21C and 10 hr daylength? If that is the case, plants won't grow well enough to compete with algae.

Too bad, because you've got a nice assortment of plants, some of which should do well.


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## gato (Nov 24, 2009)

Hehe, thankyou again mudobbots, for the reply and the sincerity!
Next week I'll work on the light system. In the meanwhile I took the photoperiod to 12 h.

Dear dWalstad, yes, I'm still running the tank at 20-21°C but now with 12 h of light per day. Here in northern Italy is winter now, and we have the lowest temperature in december and january. I think in spring and summer the temperature shall rise. But if you say plants are not growing with this temperature, I'm ready to put a heater.. I'm doing without it because I thought in a NPT it was unnecessary (if you select the right fish, of course).

here you can see the tank 15 days ago and yesterday.. a some plants grew a lot, I think!


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Hmmmmmmm. The plants seem to be responding well to whatever your doing and the water "stuff". Light looks a little brighter yesterday than 15 days ago too. 

Regarding temp, Dwalstad is absolutely right (have you read her book btw? - not that I'm trying to put in a plug, but it's very helpful all the way around). I am fortunate enough not to have to put a heater because my tank water only drops below 72 for short periods at a time in the winter, so even when it's cold it's not very long (not to mention the heat that my ma-jillion gigawatts of light puts off - just kidding ). But I notice a difference in plant growth even in that short amount of time, not so much in the plants, but in the green spot algae that grows on my driftwood and little dots here and there on the glass. But as I mentioned, this is brief due to my geographical location and I can get rid of it really easy (I leave the stuff on the driftwood alone, maybe some nerite snails in the future will appreciate it).


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## gato (Nov 24, 2009)

mudboots said:


> Hmmmmmmm. The plants seem to be responding well to whatever your doing and the water "stuff". Light looks a little brighter yesterday than 15 days ago too.


 yes, yesterday I used both the laps to take the pic while 15 days ago I used just one 
Ok, I'm planning for the near future (nex week or so) to do a DIY new light system with two 18watts fluo tubes: 36w/25g=1.33w/g 
what do you think?

ps: of course I read the book!!!


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

mudboots said:


> Hmmmmmmm. The plants seem to be responding well to whatever your doing and the water "stuff". Light looks a little brighter yesterday than 15 days ago too.
> 
> Regarding temp, Dwalstad is absolutely right (have you read her book btw? - not that I'm trying to put in a plug, but it's very helpful all the way around). I am fortunate enough not to have to put a heater because my tank water only drops below 72 for short periods at a time in the winter, so even when it's cold it's not very long (not to mention the heat that my ma-jillion gigawatts of light puts off - just kidding ). But I notice a difference in plant growth even in that short amount of time, not so much in the plants, but in the green spot algae that grows on my driftwood and little dots here and there on the glass. But as I mentioned, this is brief due to my geographical location and I can get rid of it really easy (I leave the stuff on the driftwood alone, maybe some nerite snails in the future will appreciate it).


Mmmmm. Yummy:hungry: Maybe could use a little more pepper, but these are some of the best words I've ever eaten...lol!!!

We're getting ready to leave for a while and I don't want the central heat on the whole time, and the highs are going to be in the 60's for the entire week, with lows in the 30's and 40's...ahhhhhhhh! So last night I made the drive to Lufkin and helped Hydor stocks a little. I'm putting a 200w heater on one side and a 300w on the other. The good news is that the fish are noticeably more comfy with the temp. I set it at 75.


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