# [Wet Thumb Forum]-What is the best beginner substrate?



## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

What substrate method would you recommend to a beginner?

Robert
King admin
www.aquabotanic.com


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

What substrate method would you recommend to a beginner?

Robert
King admin
www.aquabotanic.com


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## imported_aquaverde (May 5, 2003)

Why Flora base not listed? Too new?


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Probably due to the nasty color.










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## imported_trilinearmipmap (Feb 11, 2003)

Onyx sand.

The substrate is fine enough for fine-rooted plants.

The built-in kH buffering is good.

My plants like it.

The only downside is it requires a lot of rinsing when first put in.

Canadian Aquatic Plant Trading Website


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

I just washed a bag of Flourite that was the dirtiest I have ever seen. It was the regular and not the red and was so dusty it almost looked very dark red in the bag. Took me almost 20 minutes to rinse it. Normally it takes me maybe 10 minutes.










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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

And Eco Complete needs no rinsing...no dust.

I forgot about Florabase, I consider Onyx the same as Flourite, just a different color.

Robert
King admin
www.aquabotanic.com


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## imported_locus (Feb 2, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> I forgot about Florabase, I consider Onyx the same as Flourite, just a different color.


Onyx also has the added kh buffering capacity which might complicate things more for a newbie than flourite.

I don't think you can get eco complete down here in oz yet, sounds good though!


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Onyx is really not the same as Flourite. It does have some buffering ability and is actually a totally different material. I think if it were the same as Flourite Seachem would sell it for planted tanks as "Flourite Black or Grey". Seachem sells Onyx to the saltwater community as Gray Coast Calcite.










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## imported_aquaverde (May 5, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Rex Grigg:
> Probably due to the nasty color.


I have yet to see it available locally, so didn't know how pretty it was. The exhorbitant price intriques me. To hear it is ugly to boot is a laff riot. I think my next tank will be dirt from the back yard and pea gravel. $30/bag before shipping online...has *anyone*here tried it?


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

I am doing the happy dance over Eco Complete. My hard drive died on the PC that has all my photo. It all so handles my camera down loads, as soon as get it running I will update my photos on my 75gal tank that has 100% Eco Complete. The plant growth, short cycle time,and very little algae growth in the first few weeks of start up. Its very clean plants love it. New plants that where grown emersed didn't go through shock, they stated growing new growth in days. If I every take down any of my other tanks, I will change the substrate over to Eco Complete. If you can't tell from my post I am sold on this product.

Hawk

Trust But Verify «*»®


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## zeek (Jan 5, 2005)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Hawkeye:
> I am doing the happy dance over Eco Complete. The plant growth, short cycle time,and very little algae growth in the first few weeks of start up. I am sold on this product.


Eco Complete looks promising alright, but it really hasn't been out long enough to start doing the happy dance... Flourite has been around for awhile, and is proven. Let's remember the intent of this poll -- What would you recommend to a BEGINNER. I suggest beginners go the proven route and let the more experienced/adventurous folks try the new stuff (and soil/peat solutions etc).

Isaac


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Eco-Complete for a beginner in a heartbeat. Why? Open the bag and pour. No rinsing.










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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

Not only open the bag and pour. No rinsing. No substrate tabs for heavy root feeders. No soil or peat clouding the water after moving plants or adding new ones. I am telling all If you haven't tried Eco Cpmplete you have no idea how great it is. I have six tanks two with Flourite, three with plane gravel and root tabs. This 75gal with 100% Eco Complete is by far the best. For a beginner it can't be any easier, for someone with experience it grows plants very very well. Any way you look at it, it works.

Hawk

Trust But Verify «*»®


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## Plecoman (Nov 24, 2003)

Let me tell you a story. It was a sunny summer day in mid-July. My 2 bags of flourite arrived from UPS. I was totally excited. I put it in the tank and added water gently. It was a cloudy mess. So yes, I took it outside for a rinse. It was so filthy, I took my shirt off. Big mistake. After about an hour of rinsing heavliy, it finally looked decent. Put it all bank in tank, it looked fine. I suffered 2nd degree burns from the sun. I have very fair skin. 

Moral of story: Flourite is great, but not very easy to start off with.


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## Shane A smith (Jun 15, 2003)

Flourite worked great for me. But i've never tried anything else besides floramax which is just like flourite.

50gal 160watts PC 6500k Clay Substrate.


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## Jim Miller (Feb 3, 2003)

I've found that with minimal washing either Flourite or Onyx will settle in a day or so with the filter running to crystal clear.

I've never understood the "wash all the fines" approach.

Patience, you'll need it for the plants.

have fun

jtm


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2003)

Just to elaborate on "haze" effect w/ flourite.

All you need is as dry flourite as you can get plus any object on substrate. Simple as that. This will eliminate all side effects and give you sparkling tank immediately.

-------------
Regards,
Jay Luto


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

I find it interesting that "plain gravel" is scoring highrer than laterite and soil/peat!

Man, what ever happened to the days when laterite was the most popular substrate?

Robert
King admin
www.aquabotanic.com


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Jim,

I found my experience to be not exactly what you describe when using Onyx sand. I placed the unwashed Onyx in a 5.5 gallon tank and gently filled it with water. It looked as if I had filled the tank with milk. I then went on vacation for six days. When I came home I still could not see the back of the tank. And their was no filter running on the tank. It was still water. I use a paint strainer to wash substrates. You keep all of fines and lose the dust.










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## trace_lynn (Mar 4, 2003)

I voted Eco-complete. I started keeping planted tanks in February of this year so I consider myself a beginner. Over that time, I've used Flourite w/gravel, just Flourite, laterite with gravel, plain gravel, play-sand, aquarium sand, and Eco-complete. I have to say that my vote goes to Eco-complete hands down. Easy to use, easy to plant in, no substrate fertilizing, I added fish immediately and have not had any spikes in water parameters, looks nice, doesn't cloud when moving plants, and it automatically separates into the correct layers your suppose to have ie. fine/small/medium. I set up a tank about 2 weeks ago with Eco-complete and this is the best stuff I have ever used and will be using it in any re-do of tanks and/or future tanks.

-------------------
Tracy
Ummm, Is it suppose to do that!?


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## Jim Miller (Feb 3, 2003)

Rex

I did a quick wash in a bucket letting the dust overflow off the top while plunging my hand in the onyx for two to three minutes. 

I then just pour off the remaining water and put the sand in the tank. Fill with water and turn on the filter. It's still hazy at first but crystal clear in 24hrs. I just had floss in the filter, nothing else. The floss had the remaining dust on it and I replaced it of course.

good luck

jtm


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## imported_aquaverde (May 5, 2003)

Hawk, how many bags did it take you to do the 75? The water weight makes it difficult for me to figure how far a 20lb. bag will go.

James


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

I used 8 bags but you could get by with 6 bags. I like to keep the substrate over 4" deep. Large sword plants seem to like the deeper substrate.

Hawk

Trust But Verify «*»®


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## DaTrueDave (Dec 28, 2003)

Without a doubt, I'd recommend Flourite to ANYONE...

Like others have said, it's proven to be a fantastic all-around growing medium that is appropriate for any aquarium.

Rinsing is really a non-issue because if you don't rinse at all, the dust will settle in a day or two anyway...

The only issue I have with it is the price. That's why I cut it with Profile. If you do this, make sure you put the Profile underneath the Flourite, as Profile is quite a bit less dense...









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[This message was edited by DaTrueDave on Sun December 28 2003 at 04:11 PM.]


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Hey Dave! Welcome to the forum

Robert
King admin
www.aquabotanic.com


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## DaTrueDave (Dec 28, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Robert H:
> Hey Dave! Welcome to the forum


Thanks. Don't know if you remember me, I used to be a bit more active on APD and the rec.aquaria NGs... Been too busy the last year and a half to keep my tank running. Couple that with a move halfway across the country and I feel like a planted tank newbie again!


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Sure, I remember you! Make this your new home, but don't wait another month to post again!









Robert
King admin
www.aquabotanic.com


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## imported_rayhwong (Feb 14, 2003)

Anyone know of a good source to get eco-complete?


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## Wheeler (Feb 8, 2004)

IMO, Flourite is not fantastic or even good. It's expensive broken pottery-- nearly worthless as is. Eco-Complete is the best out-of-bag substrate out there hands down:

It looks great, it's neat/clean, and the volcanic rock has more pore/surface area than the baked clay. Since Red Sea has been kind enough to put the mineral breakdown of EC right on the bag, that tells me that the product has been treated somehow to enrich it. SeaChem has admitted straight up that the mineral content in Flourite varies because of different ore strata, and mining/finishing operations, etc...

Flourite has a *poor* cation exchange capability-- Just slightly higher than silica gravel. This is probably due to the heat treatment which I assume is combined with high pressure in order to increase pore space. Apparently it doesn't do much good. Plus, it's just plain old ugly and a good attachment point for algaes.

To get back on topic...









IMO, the best begginers substrate out there is laterite and gravel, but the laterite has to be mixed with a *little* peat or some other humus to best unlock all the goodies within. It's reasonably neat/clean, and it grows plants great. Further it's so easy and cheap that anyone can do it on any budget.

Good topic...

Best wishes,
John Wheeler


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