# Driftwood arrived moldy and softened (decayed?)



## AFK (Mar 8, 2006)

Will leaving this in the water decay the wood more and encourage more mold growth? I just got my driftwood from aquariumdriftwood.com but am not sure how to treat the mold and the wood is soft and some of the thinner branches were almost broken off because of how soft it has become. What to do???


----------



## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

That's too bad...if it's soft now it will only get softer and decay even more. Not a good thing to put in your tank, imho. I would see if they will give you a refund, send it back or something.


----------



## AFK (Mar 8, 2006)

how do you prevent driftwood from decaying?


----------



## MiamiAG (Jan 13, 2004)

If it is completely soft, then it is probably a goner. I would try to boil it if you can and dip it in a mild bleach solution. 

If you can get a refund, so much the better.


----------



## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

If it were a thick piece, I would suggest scraping it with a wire brush to remove the decaying parts. But it sounds like it's a more serious problem, especially if you were counting on the thinner branches as well.


----------



## Lauren (Mar 18, 2006)

I'd try and get a refund, you shouldn't have to fix a piece of wood that was shipped to you from a supplier


----------



## jbot (Feb 3, 2006)

send it back, get a refund or replacement!


----------



## AFK (Mar 8, 2006)

i sure hope they would refund the shipping too. it's next to impossible as well to get a hold of these guys. there customer service has not been impressing me at all whatsoever so far.


----------



## [email protected] (May 12, 2005)

Soft? Not good.


----------



## AFK (Mar 8, 2006)

From: Carrie Baxter <[email protected]>	
To: Tim
Date: Mar 28, 2006 4:03 AM
Subject: Re: Invoice # 4402
Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Add sender to Contacts list | Delete this message | Show original | Message text garbled?
You can return the wood and we will refund the purchase price of the wood
only $12.50.
Carrie
- Show quoted text -
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 1:11 AM
Subject: Invoice # 4402

Hi, I just received my driftwood today. However, it has some mold
growth on it and the thinner branches are soft and flexible and one or
two of those branches have already bent enough where there is a
rip/tear. This appears to be in decay already. How do I refund this?
I'm assuming that shipping sent to me and the shipping to be sent to
you will be reimbursed as well. The driftwood is not usable for me
due to it's state, as well as the fact that it doesn't quite fit my
special request description.

Thanks,
Tim

Reply	Forward	Invite Carrie to Gmail

Tim 
to Carrie
Hide options 6:22 pm (6 minutes ago)
From: Tim Mailed-By: gmail.com
To: Carrie Baxter <[email protected]>
Date: Mar 28, 2006 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: Invoice # 4402
Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Add sender to Contacts list | Delete this message | Show original | Message text garbled?
I don't think that's fair because:

1. The shipping costs MORE than the actual wood.
2. You sent me a defective product, so why must I be penalized with shipping?
3. The wood you sent me doesn't even fit my special request.
4. You have a guarantee posted on your website.


----------



## DubSack (Mar 20, 2006)

Dont give up AFK!. I'd love to see the repsonce to our last e-mail. Keep us posted on what happins...


----------



## AFK (Mar 8, 2006)

To: Tim
Date: Mar 29, 2006 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: Invoice # 4402
Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Add sender to Contacts list | Delete this message | Report phishing | Show original | Message text garbled?

Our guarantee is for the purchase price of the wood only. Our product is
not defective. We have sold thousands in the past 13 years.
Carrie
- Show quoted text -

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 8:23 PM
To: Carrie Baxter
Subject: Re: Invoice # 4402

I don't think that's fair because:

1. The shipping costs MORE than the actual wood.
2. You sent me a defective product, so why must I be penalized with
shipping?
3. The wood you sent me doesn't even fit my special request.
4. You have a guarantee posted on your website.
:
> You can return the wood and we will refund the purchase price of the wood
> only $12.50.
> Carrie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 1:11 AM
> Subject: Invoice # 4402
>
>
> Hi, I just received my driftwood today. However, it has some mold
> growth on it and the thinner branches are soft and flexible and one or
> two of those branches have already bent enough where there is a
> rip/tear. This appears to be in decay already. How do I refund this?
> I'm assuming that shipping sent to me and the shipping to be sent to
> you will be reimbursed as well. The driftwood is not usable for me
> due to it's state, as well as the fact that it doesn't quite fit my
> special request description.
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>

Reply	Forward	Invite Carrie to Gmail

Tim to Carrie
Hide options 6:00 pm (0 minutes ago)
From: Tim

Date: Mar 29, 2006 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: Invoice # 4402
Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Add sender to Contacts list | Delete this message | Report phishing | Show original | Message text garbled?

To my knowledge, wood that has already started to decay will continue
to decay even further underwater. Also, this piece of driftwood
doesn't quite fit my special request description and I explained in
detail and even included diagrams of what I wanted.


----------



## JerseyScape (Nov 18, 2005)

> Our product is not defective. We have sold thousands in the past 13 years.


This statement makes this lady sound dumb and uneducated. She should take a basic course in Business Statistics to realize she is wrong.

You should send her the link to this thread. Her business is getting bad publicity in a forum all for a few bucks...it costs so much more to keep and attract new buyers that she should realize a refund would be the best option. 80% of your total revenue comes from 20% of your customers (the 20% are your repeat shoppers).

Good luck.


----------



## Overfloater (Apr 2, 2004)

That's crap. If they sold you a defective product they should reimburse you the wood price and and also the shipping both ways. 

Keep on them and report back.


----------



## DubSack (Mar 20, 2006)

This pisses me off. I think you should be fully reimbursed for their mistake. Obviously that lady doesnt have a clue about good marketing practices, and I bet she will end up loosing more money that she saves from all the bad publicity she's getting. It's not even the fact that they wouldnt pay for shipping that bothers me, its the manner in wich your problem was addressed. Instead of being appoligetic, she sounds very defensive in here e-mails, and she gives stupid one line answers to your questions. I didnt even hear her appoligise for the inconvience. 

I would love for you to send here a link to this thread so she can see for herself what a bad reputation her buisness is getting. I for one will NEVER order anything from them ever, and I hope no one else does either.

I really hope you send her a link to this thread and post the responce for the rest of us to see. I'm sure shell think twice before making a stupid mistake like that again.


----------



## MoonFish (Feb 12, 2006)

afk, wood doesn't decay under water it just gets soft and loads up on water. The outer bit gets soft and that's why you don't see pieces with all kinds of little twigs in it because they get soft and fall off. 

It seems kind of odd they ship the stuff wet but I imagine that it would sink good that way. It looks like it has been well 'seasoned' at the least.


----------



## DubSack (Mar 20, 2006)

Wood doesnt decay under water??? That is the most ridiculuos thing I've ever heard. Wood decays ten times faster under water. Water is a universal solvent. Given unough time water will disolve, erode, or decay anything on this earth. Wood starts the decaying process as soon as its dead off the tree.


----------



## fishdude1984 (Feb 17, 2005)

I bought from them once, I got a good looking peace but its not as nice condition as I would have liked, the customer service sucked, and it took almost two months for it to arrive. I cant recommend them to anyone, there only saving grace is that my fish like the wood.


----------



## AFK (Mar 8, 2006)

curious, but if everything starts decaying once it's dead and underwater, how does other driftwood not decay?


----------



## AFK (Mar 8, 2006)

Date: Mar 29, 2006 7:07 PM
Subject: RE: Invoice # 4402

Return for purchase price of wood only, or keep it.
Carrie

Date: Mar 29, 2006 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: Invoice # 4402

Why would anybody do that when shipping costs more than the wood. I
also find it amazing that people would even mention your website given
your company's complete lack of customer service. I've read other bad
reviews of your company, but I gave the benefit of the doubt. I guess
I must have completely ignored the reviews where they also called
multiple times and left message but could never get in contact with
your company until finally a complaint about the product was given.
And to top it off, I get this situation. I don't know how you
advertise, but I'll be honest with my experience with your company
when I write my review.

Date: Mar 29, 2006 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: Invoice # 4402

Here's is a thread and review of your company on APC
(AquaticPlantCentral.com) that I started a few days back as my
concerns were NOT being addressed by you so I have to get them
addressed on the Internet's biggest aquascaping website:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...twood-arrived-moldy-and-softened-decayed.html


----------



## JerseyScape (Nov 18, 2005)

> Return for purchase price of wood only, or keep it.
> Carrie


This lady is on crack. Where is her apology? How about showing some type of concern?

There are too many other places to buy driftwood from for her to be acting in this manner.


----------



## jeff63851 (Feb 23, 2005)

I agree, I think you can complain to the BBB (better business bureau). Here's the website:

http://www.bbb.org/

I would just buy from manzanita.com I hope everything turns out in the end!

-Jeff


----------



## random_alias (Nov 7, 2005)

> Return for purchase price of wood only, or keep it.
> Carrie


wow. There's either a lot of attitude or a lot of indifferent coldness in that statement. It depends on how you interpret the text but either way there's no way it could be interpreted as being good. I'll be sure to stay away from any company that would treat me like that, especially after what they did. Why are they brickwalling you over something so undeniably their fault and so inconsequentially harmless to their bottom line? This presented them with a cheap and easy way to improve their tarnished customer support image and they are turning that opportunity against themselves. Customer support is becoming a bigger and bigger factor in purchases as products all become more and more similar and prices become more competitive. Confidence in support and service is also the hardest thing to "buy" through advertising. Moments like these are how and when businesses distinguish themselves from one another.

I had a wonderful experience with Manzanita Burlworks. Talked with them on the phone a good while about what I wanted, what sizes and shapes, etc. Very polite and nice and I was pleased when I received the wood.

I would also let the BBB know. They helped me get over $3,000 back from Gateway that they were trying to keep/refuse to refund. I had messed with Gateway multiple times, over periods of months: hours and hours and hours wasted on the phone. I sent in an electronic complaint form to the BBB website and the NEXT DAY Gateway CALLED ME to let me know they were refunding the money. And it was obvious by their voice that they weren't happy about it, like their arm was being twisted, which made me feel even better after all they had put me through hoping I'd just give up and let them rob me. 

It's nice to have a government agency that will stick up for YOU. Seems like all the rest stick it TO YOU.

Just be sure to be very detailed and chronological when you fill the form out. Be logical and reasonable and do not let your tone come off as being overimpassioned. Let them know you aren't a complainer by nature and that this is an un usual even for you. I'm sure they get a lot of forms sent in by wackos and flim-flams and they have to infer from your words who you are and what your real intentions are. They need the facts. They draw their own conclusions.


----------



## 247Plants (Mar 23, 2006)

Ive worked in customer service for a whilw and my suggestion would be to see if they have a 800 customer support line and get the ball rolling with a manager...any company that does customer support has standards and usually the saying rings through "The customer is always right" because thats what customer service is........If you would like some help with dealing with their customer service i usually have a little bit of time during the day to make a few phone calls and Ive managed a call center before...pm me if needed


----------



## Bombay (Mar 6, 2006)

Just terrible... My response...

Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 11:17:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob
Subject: Invoice # 4402 Defective Product and Customer Service - Just thought you should know...
To: [email protected]

Hi Carrie:
I've contemplated ordering driftwood from your company before. I purchased it locally, but still would have considered purchasing from you in the future...or linking other aquarists to your site. No more. Well, that is, unless your company starts doing business like a company that DESERVES my business.

Please refer to the information below. This gentleman purchased driftwood from you that arrived (according to him) in a totally unsatisfactory state (rotting, decaying, broken, etc). I, along with 100's of others (375 people have viewed this thread as of today), have reviewed your responses to this transaction. You are getting terrible publicity due to your style of customer service.

If a product arrives defective (as in this case it is), the seller would replace the product (by sending out a pre-paid pick-up ticket) OR refund the purchase price and refund the shipping and pick up the defective product (by sending out a pre-paid pick-up ticket).

I ask you to:
1) reconsider your position in regard to the mentioned sale...and make it right with Tim.
2) consider what future sales you have lost due to your current policy
3) change your customer service policy

We will be watching!
Regards,
Rob

Emailed included below:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 1:11 AM
> Subject: Invoice # 4402
>
>
> Hi, I just received my driftwood today. However, it has some mold
> growth on it and the thinner branches are soft and flexible and one or
> two of those branches have already bent enough where there is a
> rip/tear. This appears to be in decay already. How do I refund this?
> I'm assuming that shipping sent to me and the shipping to be sent to
> you will be reimbursed as well. The driftwood is not usable for me
> due to it's state, as well as the fact that it doesn't quite fit my
> special request description.
>
> Thanks,
> Tim


----------



## JaySilverman (Jun 19, 2005)

Call the store and ask to speak to the manager.


----------



## Bombay (Mar 6, 2006)

Let this be a warning for everyone who considers purchasing from this company. I hope it works out, but I don't think Carrie's philosophy is customer centric.

From: "Carrie Baxter" <[email protected]>
To: Tim
CC: "Rob
Subject: Re: Invoice # 4402
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:15:50 -0600

We have sold 1000's of pieces of driftwood since 1993 with completely 
satisfied customers. Including the New England Aquarium, Sea World and many 
pet stores over the U.S. Our return policy is listed on the home page of 
our site www.aquariumdriftwood.com. We do not send wood out that is decayed 
as listed in his email. We have received hundreds of letters complementing 
our wood and selection for their tank. I will refund the purchase price 
only($12.50 has been credited) and will not ask you to send it back--we 
absolutely do not refund shipping to the customer. We charge a minimum fee 
for our driftwood as compared to other suppliers and our wood is heavy and 
wet which makes shipping costs more.

You can advertise whatever you like. We do business fairly and charge 
reasonable prices for our products.
Carrie

Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:51:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob
Subject: Re: Invoice # 4402
To: Carrie Baxter <[email protected]>, Tim
CC: Rob

Hi Carrie:
Thanks for your reply. I'd like to repsond to some of your points. First though, I'd like to say that I don't know Tim, never met him, never conversed with him via email, etc. I am a member of aquaticplantcentral and other online communities. We share experiences and provide advice etc. A large part of that is sharing our experiences with products...and retailers.

Your first point is not sound logic. Just because Campbell's soup sells millions of cans of soup, doesn't mean that every one they send out the door is perfect...and goes to a completely satisfied customer. Statistically, it is virtually impossible to send 1000's of anything out the door (much less a natural product) and proclaim that not a single one was defective (or poorly prepared, shipped, etc).

The fact that your driftwood is heavy and wet as you claim is great, however, the fact that shipping is more is beside the point. Tim spent his money and received driftwood that in his opinion is defective. That defect would be a result of someone not checking that shipment carefully enough...or a simple oversight...mistake...which we all make sometimes. Whatever the case, the "we do not reimburse for shipping" policy assumes that the company is not at fault. It assumes that company sent the correct item, in non-defective condition, and that the only reason for return would be buyer's remorse. Of course companies are not going to pay for you to 'try out' their products. However, in this situation, the fault appears to be on the part of the seller, or the shipper. In either case, the responsibility to get the corrrect item to the customer in the correct condition is the sellers. The customer gets the short end of the stick for someone else's mistake in this situation.

For instance, if I ordered dark African root wood, and you sent me light colored driftwood, I would NOT expect to pay shipping costs to cover for your mistake. I would expect the company to pick up (or let me keep/dispose of) the wrong item, and I would expect them to cover the cost of sending me the correct item. I would not expect for them to come back and say, "we sell 1000's of items and every single customer is completely satisfied'. In effect, this is what aquariumdriftwood.com has done.

Not sure what business logic is being used here, but unless other folks in the aquarium community see a postive ending to this sale, aquariumdriftwood could stand to lose hundreds or thousands of dollars in sales...over a meager shipping charge. Not to mention that other folks have recommended filing with the BBB, etc.

The final decision is left up to you. I will not be involved anymore. I will wait and watch. Thanks for your time and response.
Rob


----------



## JerseyScape (Nov 18, 2005)

Oh well. I hope nobody orders from them again.

Carrie needs to take a few courses in business ethics, marketing and statistics.


----------



## 247Plants (Mar 23, 2006)

I fthat would have been one of my employees i would have let them go.....If as a manager MY boss caught wind of that i think they might even take actions against me......thats just poor customer service and the reasons she gives arent valid in the sales world.....at least not in any sales ive ever done


----------



## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Maybe I'm becoming too cynical, but that's about what I've come to expect from on-line companies. I think someday things will swing back around when more and more people realize that good customer service and help from people who actually understand their products is worth paying a bit more for.


----------



## AFK (Mar 8, 2006)

OK, I was about to post the rest of our correspondence, but looks like Rob beat me to it. But yeah, thanks Rob for your support! I still can't believe how stubborn Carrie is. And for the record, I've called them probably almost 20 times now. Only ONCE did they ever pick up, and NEVER did they ever call back to my voice messages (multiple ones I have left BEFORE and AFTER our transaction). I've also emailed them maybe 5 times, and they finally responded after I told them that my moldy driftwood was in a state of decay. Oh, and when I finally did get a hold of them on the phone, they weren't even friendly at all. I mean, I was asking about their product and how I could expedite the transaction...I would think they would be eager to encourage me to buy from them!

Definitely am not buying from them again and would in fact recommend AGAINST them.


----------



## AFK (Mar 8, 2006)

BTW, speaking of online businesses, has anyone ever dealt with Zappos.com? They have the BEST customer service hands down among any store, online or on land.


----------



## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

I don't know for sure but I don't get the feeling that you are dealing with a "company" with managers and sales representatives. IMHO I think it's a "mom and pop" type business that they run out of their garage. I really wonder where they are collecting this "driftwood". I wonder if they are collecting legally. I considered buying from Carrie about a year ago, but when I e-mail questions, only to receive one to three word responses I opted to spend my money elsewhere.

Where is this company located? Does anyone know?


----------



## kimbm04r (Apr 22, 2005)

Roy Deki said:


> Where is this company located? Does anyone know?


From their web site...

Time-in-Transit from: SEMMES, AL. 36575

I must say I will never order from them either (plants, driftwood or otherwise) and am glad to have the heads up. This is unexcusable.


----------



## RoseHawke (Jan 4, 2005)

Semmes is outside of Mobile, a sort of a suburb I'd guess. I've never been there, it's not on the way to the "tourist" beaches  on the east side of the bay.


----------



## freydo (Jan 7, 2006)

this is what i got from a whois on their domain name:

Aquarium Driftwood
P O Box 1607
Semmes, AL 36575
US

from this, i would assume it's a business out of their garage. and from looking at their web page, they would only do online business and do not have a retail store. i would definitely not order from this company mainly because their order form is not a secure web page, but this is standard for all online businesses that don't have a secure order page.

in the end, it's caveat emptor.


----------



## Overfloater (Apr 2, 2004)

freydo said:


> in the end, it's caveat emptor.


I don't know why people contnue to order from this company as I have read nothing but bad experiences. I would never order from them and certainly would not recommend them to anyone. In fact, I would do everything I could to steer them away from the company.

I hope everything works out for you Tim, but I have my doubts.


----------



## AFK (Mar 8, 2006)

i just want to thank everyone again for their support and helping me out. makes me feel at home already at APC! 

i just won this auction. this piece of driftwood actually fits the description of what i'm looking for, unlike what carrie sent me. the seller has very high positive feedback, so here's to hoping i won't be an exception.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...ndexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting


----------



## Pseud (Oct 19, 2005)

Sorry about your experience with AquariumDriftwood. Add another one to the tally of people who wont ever order from them.

(I've had good experience with floridadriftwood.com by the way.)

That's a nice looking piece of wood AFK.. one question... which way up are you gonna use it!


----------



## RoseHawke (Jan 4, 2005)

Pseud said:


> ". . . (I've had good experience with floridadriftwood.com by the way.) . . ."


I did not. I think in future I'm staying away from ANYbody that has "driftwood" as part of their name!

Awesome piece of driftwood from that auction though. I assume you *are * going to show it to us in its final resting place? You have piqued my interest!


----------



## Bombay (Mar 6, 2006)

Hey AFK. That is sweet. In my opinion, that would look good standing in the tank in the same postion with some moss or other planting on top. I would leave some of it open, but would plant around some of the legs.

It would also look good with the roots/branches turned upwards. Either way, that looks sharp.

Bombay


----------



## freydo (Jan 7, 2006)

i'm glad something good came out of this experience. it will be great to see how you plan on using the new acquisition.


----------



## DubSack (Mar 20, 2006)

did AFK, or bombay recieve the replies to the last e-mail??


----------



## Ponderous (Feb 2, 2006)

This is really disappointing. I had found the AquariumDriftwood site some time ago and really liked the look of some of their big centerpieces. I had already decided the buy one when I stated my tank this summer.

I guess I'll have to reconsider now. It has been my observation that if a business offers a high quality product, they will be quick to make any amends on the rare occasion that a customer is dissatisfied. In contrast, this is the type of gruff, disinterested service one might expect from a company receives a steady flow of complaints.


----------



## Bombay (Mar 6, 2006)

DubSack said:


> did AFK, or bombay recieve the replies to the last e-mail??


I did not. I think she knew better to reply with anything other than, "we'd like to keep your business...we will take care of the issue to your satisfaction."  And since she didn't say that, we can assume she doesn't want anybody's future business. What a sad state of affairs. Ciao


----------



## Pseud (Oct 19, 2005)

Did anybody email her a link to this thread?


----------



## freydo (Jan 7, 2006)

someone had, but they just didn't care. go figure :neutral:


----------



## JerseyScape (Nov 18, 2005)

freydo said:


> someone had, but they just didn't care. go figure :neutral:


I sent them the link a few days ago so I know they are viewing this thread.


----------



## Bombay (Mar 6, 2006)

This kind of person (Carrie and the driftwood company) will probably miss the point entirely. She'll probably come away with the following thought, "He says he called me 20 times, but he only called me 15." LOL.


----------



## sherry (Sep 30, 2005)

:kev: Well as the good book says.. .

Why buy from Aquarium Driftwood when you know that if their product is substandard they won't stand behind it. 

I guess Carrie isn't as proud of the thousands of pieces of driftwood she has sold as she suggests.. otherwise she would be very sorry to see even one substandard piece go out. 

I will NEVER buy from these people.

btw. AZ gardens sends gorgeous driftwood... I love my pieces. I even asked for a "natural cave" and they found me one!!


----------



## AFK (Mar 8, 2006)

Nope, she has never replied back since. And Sherry, not only was the wood in a state of decay, but I asked for something specific and even drew diagrams, but I did not get that but rather a half-ass attempt.

Oh, and yes, I sent her this link in one of the emails I sent to her...you can actually read all the emails I sent her in this thread somewhere...I copied and pasted it...and you'll see that I sent her a link to this thread.

I also filed a BBB complaint.


----------



## RoseHawke (Jan 4, 2005)

When I was looking for driftwood I actually considered these people. I'm glad that around that time I found that one of my LFSs (one I rarely go to as it's out of the way) carries Malaysian driftwood so I could get it there.

This is one of those things where I would much rather _see_ the exact piece I'm buying and not a "representative picture" so that you have to leave it to someone else's judgment.

Their taste isn't mine .


----------

