# [Wet Thumb Forum]-what makes Hagen CO2 smell so much worse?



## imported_Piscesgirl (Feb 19, 2004)

Why does the Hagen Co2 smell so much worse than normal DIY CO2? Is it the nutrient they put in there? It just smells awful!!! And, when I dump it, I don't even smell the alcohol smell like I do with normal DIY Co2. 

Sorry, those who have read some of my posts on other forums know I have a habit of sniffing everything.


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## imported_Piscesgirl (Feb 19, 2004)

Why does the Hagen Co2 smell so much worse than normal DIY CO2? Is it the nutrient they put in there? It just smells awful!!! And, when I dump it, I don't even smell the alcohol smell like I do with normal DIY Co2. 

Sorry, those who have read some of my posts on other forums know I have a habit of sniffing everything.


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## Shlappy (Jan 19, 2004)

Heh, I avoid that problem by just using champaign yeast and the amount of sugar and water required in the bottle.

I don't even use baking soda, just the yeast. I get about a week and a half maybe two weeks out of the mixture. And I find my CO2 concentration to be higher in my tank.. around 20-25ppm constantly.

oh yeah.. and one packet of yeast (1.20 CDN) will last me a month. The Hagen packets cost 9 dollars here. =/

Just not worth it..

I know that didn't answer your question.. but it did provide for a cheap soloution.









Cory


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## imported_Piscesgirl (Feb 19, 2004)

Thanks Cory, 

In your opinion, do you find the champagne yeast works better (and what about that versus wine yeast or beer yeast)? I am thinking also of buying 'yeast nutrient' which is part of my concern about the awful smell of the Hagen stuff.


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## Tenor1 (Mar 3, 2003)

Hi Pisces, are you using the Hagen packets or buying yeast from the store? I've used yeast from Costco and it never has a bad smell, plus it's really cheap. I don't know if champaign yeast is better but some members recommend it. You can buy if from wine and beer bottling places. One of these breweries is near me. I can check on prices next weekend if you'd like. 

I've never found anything wrong with the Costco yeast. I use it for bread baking and have done all my own baking for the last 7 years. Just keep the yeast in the freezer and it keeps for a long time.

Regards,
Carlos


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## imported_Piscesgirl (Feb 19, 2004)

Hello Tenor, 

I'm using the Hagen packets with my Hagen Co2 thing, but using normal grocery store yeast in another tank. The normal grocery store yeast Co2 smells like alcohol when I dump it out and the Hagen stuff smells like...err...well, just awful! Even when I sniff the container as it is producing the CO2 I can faintly smell that awful smell. 

I was looking into buying champagne or beer or wine yeast online as well as some yeast nutrient.

I was raised in Torrance, by the way -- sort of close to where you are in San Pedro. I used to keep my horse in Rolling Hills (he lived better than me!).


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Piscesgirl,

You sniff everything? I think you may be related to my wife.

Someone else posted a story here a few months ago about how their Hagen CO2 system at the office generated so much hydrogen sulfide that it forced the evacuation of an entire federal office building when it was opened. He sniffed the packet (another person probably related to my wife) and said the packet was the problem.

Bread yeast works fine. Personally I prefer the active "refrigerate after opening" type over the dry yeast kind that comes in a packet. The aroma of the spent mix often has a fairly pleasant fruity overtone. I have never understood how I can get "fruity" out of cane sugar and bread yeast.


Roger Miller


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## imported_Piscesgirl (Feb 19, 2004)

oh my goodness, that must be a funny thread! (probably wasn't too funny at the time).

Hmm, there are several of us 'sniffers' out there! Tell your wife she isn't alone!









My habit of sniffing fish food has had me post twice about whether a particular fish food smelled 'right' or not; I'm glad I do this now -- I had just ordered some shrimp pellets that turned out to be bad (OSI actually sent me a new container when I inquired as to how it should smell. When I received the new container, I was sure the original container was bad!).

I will look into the refrigerator type yeast as well and not buy any more of the Hagen stuff. That just really smells dreadful! (By the way, doesn't smell like hydrogen sulfide though, if that's the stuff that builds up under sand because I took a deep whiff of that stuff once too! -- luckily it only made me dizzy and maybe that was from fear once I realized what I had done).


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## Shlappy (Jan 19, 2004)

Piscesgirl,

The reason I switched to champaign yeast was I could never get bread yeast to work. I use champaign yeast only becuase it is the most alcohol tolerance of the brewers yeasts. 

But if bread yeast works for you and you have it on hand.. by all means give it a shot in your hagen but it might not last a long time in such a small container.

Cory


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## imported_Piscesgirl (Feb 19, 2004)

I was planning to order some 'yeast nutrient' anyway, Cory, so I might as well try also the Champagne yeast.


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## walpurgis999 (Feb 6, 2003)

I too went down the long DIY CO2 road and found it to be smelly, troublesome, and annoying. I tried all different types of yeast and even "special" brewing sugars. After years of frustration and wasted money on equipment from them. I purchased a High pressure CO2 system from Aquabotanic. It was around $100 for the regulator, line, and diffuser, $65 for a 5 lb C02 tank, and $11 to get it filled with C02 and it last about a year or more. Save your money, and buy a real system.
However, one thing I can tell you, if you want to make your DIY C02 system work better, daisy chain several (or more) bottles together and put them in a 10g tank. Fill the tank with hot water, and put a "cheapo" HOB heater in the tank running on high. The water will heat up, and in turn, heat the mixture in the bottles making them work better. You can even use buckets, but I liked using the tanks because they are cheap anyways.


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## imported_Piscesgirl (Feb 19, 2004)

Thanks for the info. I'm getting a pressurized system for my 55 gallon, but I'm sticking with DIY for the rest of the tanks. The smell of the normal CO2 doesn't bother me, but the Hagen stuff smells different.


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## imported_Piscesgirl (Feb 19, 2004)

My guess is that Hagen has yeast nutrient, which I've read about somewhere before, and I guess that's what is making the smell:

di-ammonium phosphate = yeast nutrient.

I was hoping that wasn't the reason for the smell because I've ordered some....


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## Steve Hampton (Feb 13, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Piscesgirl:
> My guess is that Hagen has yeast nutrient, which I've read about somewhere before, and I guess that's what is making the smell:
> ...


Hey PC, since you're going to have some more coming in (and it's your money not mine to waste







) how about running a little test. Add one of those Hagen packets to the 2 liter bottle and see if the same smell develops. On the bright side it will give you something else to sniff. LOL!

*Ducks to miss the Hagen bottle launched at me*


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## imported_Piscesgirl (Feb 19, 2004)

Well, Steve -- won't it prove the same point if I use the yeast nutrient in the CO2 bottles and it ends up smelling just like the Hagen stuff? I ordered some yeast nutrient today and also some Champagne yeast. I still don't know what the Acid balance stuff and the Tartaric acid stuff does, though so I didn't order them. I figured that must be a wine thing. 


*Waits til Steve stands back up to throw Hagen bottle*


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## rocco (Jan 6, 2004)

the bad smell (not a sulphur smell) could be caused by bacteria contaminating your hagen mixture (maybe in the generator). smells something along the lines of bandaids?


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## imported_Piscesgirl (Feb 19, 2004)

I think bandaids smell much better than the Hagen stuff! 

I guess it quite possibly be bacteria. I only rinse out well with warm to hot water before re-doing the mix. Using soap just sounds like too much trouble to me.


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## rocco (Jan 6, 2004)

i am suggesting the bacteria based on a failed attempt at some homebrew (another story completely). the result was a flavor hard to describe: pungent, sour and bitter (and not a nice hoppy bitter, either). someone jokingly described it as bandaids, which works for lack of a better description.

i would be reluctant to introduce soap to any part of my system, but i suppose a thorough rinsing should resolve that. maybe a bleach solution would be better. i have also heard of folks using boiling water to dissolve their sugar solution and then waiting for it to cool to a safe enough temp to add the yeast.


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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

This is a funny thread. Especialy to a pressurized guy, like me. The problem has got to be bacterial contamination, probably in the Hagen yeast. The odor of bacterial decay is hard to beat, although H2S probably does. The Bandaid comparison is a hint. It's really skin bacteria that are stinking on your old Bandaids. You need to change them more often, and bath the wound! The same thing may have contaminated the yeast. Maybe someone at Hagen lost a Bandaid in the yeast!


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## rocco (Jan 6, 2004)

it is funny and that is interesting about the stinky bandages. maybe i'll brew up some gangrene ale or booboo bitter next time.


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## imported_Piscesgirl (Feb 19, 2004)

ewwwwwwwwwwww


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## Roop (Sep 21, 2004)

i re-did a hagen co2 2 days ago. it smelled like a normal diy mix. i think your definatley was contaminated.

it's always a good idea to keep contamination to a minimum. if there are other bacteria in the canister, they compete with the yeast and this give you less co2 and sometimes smelly surprises.

rinse the equipment with boiling water. it's good to put the sugar into boiling water and let it cool. this also disolves the sugar very quickly. i learned this when reading the first diy articles.

i like the hagen co2 systems for their simplicity. sure it costs much more than diy setup but other than preasurized, it's the best way to go.


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## imported_JanS (Jan 31, 2004)

It _is_ a horrible smell...








To me it's something like rotting meat, or a meat wrapper that's been getting ripe in the trash too long.

With my allergies, I usually wear a charcoal mask to dump them (so I don't have a big reaction), but after reading this post, I had to take a sniff today.... Icky, icky, icky... LOL!


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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by JanS:
> It _is_ a horrible smell...
> ...


Yo, JanS, you really must consider trading in your bio-hazard suit on a new pressurized setup. Really, I don't worry about the CO2 from month to month, and the bubble rate is uniform.


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## imported_JanS (Jan 31, 2004)

LOL! Yes, the pressurized system is looking more appealing every day.








I'll definitely be getting one for the 55 upstairs, but I have some 20's scattered downstairs and don't know if I can justify buying that many units. Or I should say justify it to the Mr....


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## rocco (Jan 6, 2004)

i am really thankful mine smells okay. i was changing it this weekend, and in the interest of keeping everything clean to avoid bacteria, etc., i decided to shake the bottle up to loosen up the deposits in the bottom of the 2l bottle. why? i don't know because i do know that the fermented mixture is carbonated. when i removed my hand from the top, i got a full face and upper body shower of the stuff. i could only laugh, because i totally knew better. duh.


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## Tenor1 (Mar 3, 2003)

My Hagen always smelled like a bottle of bear. Is that so bad? I used it for almost a year changing the bottle every 1-2 weeks. 

Hi Pices Girl, did you shop at Neptune's Reef while you were in Torrance? It's a great plant store. I'm very familiar with the stables you used in Rolling Hills although we frequented the Palos Verdes Esates stables more. The Portuguese Bend Horse show continues on and we had to bake their special brownies last year. For those that don't know (or care, lol) the club has it's own recipe and the brownies have to be cut to the clubs exact size. It's all terrible snobby, lol, but it's one of the best browny recipes I've tried, lol. 

My suggesstion is to get new yeast and a nose plug, lol.

Regards,
Carlos


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Tenor1:
> My Hagen always smelled like a bottle of bear.


Hmm. I imagine bears are pretty smelly. Especially this time of year. How do they get them in the bottle?









Roger Miller


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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by JanS:
> LOL! Yes, the pressurized system is looking more appealing every day.
> ...


This should probably be in another thread, but with my apologies I'm going to hijack this stinky yeast thread for JanS.

Jans- You don't need a complete system for each aquarium. You need a CO2 cylinder, a regulator, and a manifold. Then you need a needle valve, a bubble counter, and a check valve for each aquarium. You connect one outlet of the manifold to each aquarium through some tubing. The tubing must be CO2 resistant, and of course it would have to go between the upstairs and the downstairs to service both floors. I recommend the 1/4 inch tubing sold for refrigerator ice makers. It comes in 50 foot rolls, plastic or copper, and has lots of fittings available.


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## imported_Left C (Dec 5, 2003)

Hello PISCESGIRL. I haven't seen anything by you in a while. I hope that you're doing well. I'm back in college studying to be a MLT.I just ran across a website that I haven't seen in a while. It's about DIY CO2 but there is a lot of information about yeast here. It's at: http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html#1. You might of seen this before. He speaks of being careful of bacteria. He uses boiling water to disolve his sugar and to sterilize his bottle and he makes sure his water is 104 degrees F when he addes his yeast mixture. His yeast mixture consists of adding his yeast in a cup with this 104 degree water along with a little sugar. He then stirs it until it's not lumpy anymore. After sitting for 10 minutes he adds it to his bottle. This is roughly it, but he explains it in a little more detail. There's something that I've been thinking about trying is using some Jello in with the Hagen bottle. I just did a search at www.plantgeeks.net on Jello and there are several recipes for using a 2 liter bottle but nothing on the Hagen and according to the sites that I looked at,the yeast lasted about twice as long but at a little slower rate of CO2 production. My Carbo-Plus stainless holder needs replacing and I don't know if I want to spend the $60+ dollars to replace it. I'm going to set up a little DIY thing that I have laying around in the mean time. This tank is only 15g anyway. I gave my Hagen unit to a girl back home when I moved so I have to get something anyway. I'm not sure if I really can afford to go with a pressurized system with this little tank. By the way, did you go to the convention in Raleigh? I didn't get a chance to go.


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## imported_Piscesgirl (Feb 19, 2004)

Hey Tenor -- I actually was quite young when I was into fish in Torrance (probably 9, 10, 11). Once I got my horse, it fell to the wayside, unfortunately. I went to a fish store somewhat close to Del Amo mall, I can't remember the name of the street. There use to be a Wherehouse Records and Straw Hat Pizza there. That was a long time ago









I got my horse around 1980, and I rode with a lady that ended up teaching at Portugese Bend (Joan something or other). Being that I never had the wealth of many of the other folks that rode with me, I was always a little to the outside. But, those were still some of the best times of my life. My horse was my respite from life. The trails around Rolling Hills and Palos Verdes were wonderful and cared for. I'm in wilderness out here! I would never consider trusting my horses feet on the 'trails' out here.

Hey Left C! I've been around but not around the plant forums much til I found this one. Let's just say I didn't find them very friendly. I did make it to the Raleigh convention, but only for the auction. I'm going to the Charlotte meeting this Satuday which is a combined meeting of the Charlotte group and our plant club.

I was able to purchase some Crystal Red Bee Shrimp at the auction which are a great joy to me. I later bought some Red Cherry shrimp and both shimp types are multiplying! I have babies all over!









I'm glad you all find my smelly Hagen CO2 thread funny  I guess it keeps it all in perspective even though I was serious! It's all good, though.


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## imported_JanS (Jan 31, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by gsmollin:
> This should probably be in another thread, but with my apologies I'm going to hijack this stinky yeast thread for JanS.


My apologies as well for sidetracking the post.

Thanks so much for the info gsmollin.








I guess it hadn't occurred to me that I could do that. Now it's becoming a top of the list project.

Anyone want to buy 4 Hagen units with a bunch of extra refills?









If I have any more questions, I promise I'll start a new post. Ü


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## imported_Piscesgirl (Feb 19, 2004)

oh I don't mind my threads getting hijacked although of course better coverage to other questions would probably occur with a new thread.


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## imported_Left C (Dec 5, 2003)

It's nice to hear from you again PG. At the Charlotte meeting, I hope you get a chance to meet Phil. If you haven't met him yet, he's a wealth of knowledge and he will "bend over backwards" to help you.


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## imported_Piscesgirl (Feb 19, 2004)

I've met Phil, LeftC, he's who I'm getting my CO2 tank from. He's also who I ask questions of when I get blasted on other plant forums


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