# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Limnophila aromaticoides aka. Gratiola sp.



## imported_Ghazanfar Ghori

_Plant name_: *Limnophila aromaticoides*

First a close up: 









Second the plant only 









Third: a pic that shows the potential: 









*Some Information:* 
_Light_: Moderate to high
_Growth_: Grows at a moderate speed. Branches frequently to form a bush without any pruning.
_Demands_: In high light & CO2 it turns red, with lower lights the leaves are green.
_Pruning_: Takes pruning well, just topping it helps crate bushy compact growth.
_Propagation_: Easy, via cuttings.

_Experiences_: I received this plant as
three-four cuttings and it's grown into what
you see above in about 2 months. Branches out
frequently - so even though I started a few
cuttings - it still looks dense.
Reminds me of E. stellata though not nearly
as demanding. This is the 'easy stellata'.

-
Ghazanfar Ghori

[This message was edited by Jay Luto on Mon November 17 2003 at 08:25 PM.]


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## Cavan Allen

Glad to see it's doing well for you.

I would bet my bottom dollar that it's *NOT* a Gratiola but is in fact a Limnophila similar to L. aromatica (too few leaves per whorl) or aromaticoides.

This is it here:
http://www.iopets.com/en/wpd-wg280.htm

Go here:
http://www.australianrainbowfish.com/aquaticslife/index.html
Then plants, Limnophila, series one, then scroll to the bottom picture of L. chinensis. Looks very similar but has wider leaves (although I guess that _could_ be it).

I will be taking some to a botanist to check out soon and pointing Claus Christiensen to this thread to see what he thinks. I have grown G. officinalis obtained as a marginal plant submersed, and, although it did grow, looked nothing like what you see here. I have placed a stem in my terrarium to see what it looks like growing emersed and flowering, but so far it hasn't done anything like that.

This stuff is VERY light demanding. Mine went from small and green to like this when I removed a few floaters: 
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/mytanks/showtank.asp?Tank_ID=65

Stems can get up to 4 inches across. When they do, it doesn't seem to branch as much. I don't know why sometimes it goes split crazy and sometimes it doesn't. May get a bit redder with lower phosphates. I am experimenting to see whether root feeding makes any difference (I suspect it might). When it is well established, it will spread through the gravel and propagate that way as well. Has a strong scent.

A few stems of mine have gotten some irregularly shaped holes, but I've since upped the K so we'll see how that goes. A VERY nice plant. Don't shade it! That makes all the difference.


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## ekim

getting some popcorn!


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## imported_Ghazanfar Ghori

The picture of L. chinensis shows 4 leaves
per node. Dunno if that it. I'd gotten
Gratiola officinalis from Lowes' pond section,
last year and it wasn't this plant.

As for root feeding. I'm already ahead of you.
I stuck a jobes under the roots a couple
of weeks ago. Growth definitly sped up.

-
Ghazanfar Ghori


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## Guest

I'm with G on this one. Definitely Gratiola sp.

I went throught lots of tank's pictures and wherever I found Gratiola sp., it looked exactly like Ghori's plant.

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## Cavan Allen

That's not really surprising though. One person says it's Gratiola and soon everyone does. People still call Rotala rotundifolia R. indica too. I may be wrong, but I'll put my money on Limnophila. 

Ghazanfar: Has root feeding it given it any change in size or color?


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## tsunami06

I really like this plant. It's bright
magenta coloration is quite spectacular.
In a friends tank, tank conditions were NO3: > 5ppm, PO4: 2.0 ppm. It was bright purple
(along with nearly everything else in the tank,
what struck me in that tank was the vibrancy
of the colors, the Ammania was glaring _hot pink_!). It tends to grow as a bush, and like
Ghazanfar said, it doesn't grow too fast.

It stayed small and green in my 20g long despite
being blasted with nearly 4 w/g, pressurized
CO2, etc. The lights were just inches away!
Nitrates were around 5 ppm and phosphates were
lower at around 0.2 ppm.

I was about to test it in my lower tech 55
gallon just for kicks, but when I left, my
mom decided that it just /had/ to go.








Too many plants in that tank already, I guess.
Oh well.

Carlos


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## imported_Ghazanfar Ghori

Cavan, it could be Limnophila aromatica.
Heres a pic I found of it.
http://members2.easyspace.com/chansy/ut047.jpg

-
Ghazanfar Ghori


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## imported_Ghazanfar Ghori

Infact herea s bunch of them...
http://members.fortunecity.com/macrophytes/#L

Grow it emmersed and see if you can get it
to flower. It's a better way to ID it.

-
Ghazanfar Ghori


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## EDGE

humm. I have a plant similar to it. Only it has a lot more leaves making it really dense all the way to the tip.

If I have a camera, it would already be up for identification.

75 Gal, 4.6 WPG MH 10 hour, pressurize co2 /w controller, Fluval 404, ph 6.8
Mike's Canadian Aquatic Plant Page
A Canadian's Plant Traders website


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## imported_Svennovitch

Mine looks exactly like yours, Ghazanfar, and I got mine from my LFS. It was a bunch of emersed stems. It looked exactly like the stems shown in this picture: http://members.fortunecity.com/macrophytes/JG06.jpg

The same red-green stems, no flowers though.
So, now i am pretty sure that i have limnophila aromatica. My LFS told me that it was Eusteralis stellata.
Nice pictures! Wish i could take one of mine.


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## Cavan Allen

How many leaves does your have per whorl svennovitch? Mine has up to 9. 

I found something on the web that said that aromatica usually has opposite or whorls of 3 but occasionally has up to 5. If it can have more than 5, I'd say aromatica is a good possibility. The Tropica site says it's a very variable plant and the rest of their description sure sounds like it. I suppose we could contact Tropica. 

Did your plant originate from their nursery?


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## Cavan Allen

The more I think about it, the more I think that the more it branches, the worse it looks. The really big and red stems have very few side shoots. I've had some recently that have split a dozen times or so on their way to the surface. Any idea why that might be or how I could stop them from branching out so much?


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## Guest

Few more pictures and links to twist our minds.

Still not sure which sp. it is but last couple pictures are really close to what Ghori has.









*Gratiola virginiana*










*Gratiola officinalis L.*





































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## imported_Svennovitch

Cavan,
I took a quick look and the longest stems (more light) have up to 10 leaves per whorl. 
On the other hand: the emersed stems I got, had only 2 or 3 leaves per whorl.

The colour (submersed) is just as Ghazanfars; the longest stems magenta and the small ones nicely green.

I got them from my LFS, and that isn't a Tropica distributor. It think their supplier is a Dutch nursery: Aquafleur (http://www.aquafleur.nl/). I found a picture of the stems i got from them: http://www.aquafleur.nl/en/productdetail.php?id=1007035738.
I am quite sure now i have limnophila aromatica.

I bought Eusteralis stellata last week and i must say that, for me, it grows faster and more beautiful then the LA. The problem i have with LA is that it doesn't grow straight up (like the biggest stem from Ghazanfar's picture, that is how i recognized the plant I am having immediately), it kind of bends in every direction, while ES grows to the surface nicely.

Another thing:
my LA branches a lot too, but only from the basis of the stem, near the substrate. The stems grow nicely and when it almost reaches the surface, one or two baby stems appear from the bottom. Don't know how you can control this...

Sven

Have a look @ my tank !


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## Bmorrow

I just wanted to stick in 2 cents. I just sent some of this to Ghazanfar. This is growing in a 30 long with an Ah 96 watter 6700k. I also have some growing in a 10 w/ about 2 watts per gallon no nutrients added. It is green w/ reddish top tips. I have some that range from firecracker red to deep burgandy, some w/ greenish stem and purple leaves. I orginally got this plant from Jim Lockhart of the SFBAAPS and have looked at pix on their site of his tank. Looks exactly like what Ghazanfars stuff looks like. I have also received this plant from other people and it always looks similar in design, but not always color, and is always called Gratiola Officinalis. I have also sent this to many people and it always seems to quickly go green on them. My guess is the plant is defending against UV in my tank because of the closeness and intensity to the light. 
Ben


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## Bmorrow




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## Guest

> quote:
> 
> I have also received this plant from other people and it always looks similar in design, but not always color, and is always called Gratiola Officinalis.


Hmmm,
I guess my research is showing the same outcome. Look at few last pictures I posted above. Those are Gratiola Officinalis and look very smilar to Ghori's plant.

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## 2la

I'm a little confused: Are you guys making comparisons between Ghazanfar's submersed plants with emersed ones? If so, I'm not sure that's the best comparison to make...


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## Guest

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by 2la:
> I'm a little confused: Are you guys making comparisons between Ghazanfar's submersed plants with emersed ones? If so, I'm not sure that's the best comparison to make...


2la,

You are right. This is definitely not the best way to compare plants but we could take a chance and at least compare steam and leaves structure.

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## 2la

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Dr.Jay:
> 2la,
> 
> You are right. This is definitely not the best way to compare plants but we could take a chance and at least compare steam and leaves structure.


But that's my point: both stem and leaf structure can change from below water to above water, though I haven't paid attention as to whether the number of leaves per node remains the same within species (although species such as R. rotundifolia make it even more complicated because they can have from three to four--maybe more?--leaves per node with submersed growth)...


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## imported_Rufus

I'd have to agree with you 2la, as with many spp, the leaf and stem form varies greatly between submerse and emerse growth, especially with the varieties of limnophila and myriophyllum which I have seen around these parts.
my 2c









Rufus.


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## Guest

Your opinions are taken







. But can we get to the bottom of this. Have some written proof on this plant.

Cavan,

Did Claus ever responded to you regarding this plant.

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## Cavan Allen

Yes, he did. He says that at first look it looks to him like Limnophila aromatica. When he has time he'll look into it in more detail. He says it's a very variable plant, which might explain why the stuff I have can have so many leaves per whorl.


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## Guest

> quote:
> 
> When he has time he'll look into it in more detail. He says it's a very variable plant, which might explain why the stuff I have can have so many leaves per whorl.


Thanks.

Please keep us informed on this topic. I want to know what I have in my tank









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## imported_Svennovitch

Same here








Although, i tend to agree with Claus Christensen.

Sven


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## Cavan Allen

Has anyone else noticed that snails seem to love this plant? I can always find more on a few stems of it than in the rest of the tank. I've seen some small, ragged lengthwise holes too. I didn't think ramshorns damaged plants, but it looks like I may have been mistaken. The holes don't really look like a deficiency of some sort (unaffected leaves both above and below damaged ones). 

I've picked out about 200 over the last couple days and don't see many more. Maybe that's why what little Pellia I have is ragged looking (would SAEs eat it?).


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## imported_Ghazanfar Ghori

BTW I'm gowing this plant emeresed. I've got it to grow a couple of
shoots. Give me two more weeks and I'll post a picture here.

-
Ghazanfar Ghori


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## S Alex Maier

Based on the ID from the " The Aquarium Plant Handbook" Published by Oriental Aquarium, This plant is Limnophila hippuroides.


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## Guest

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by S Alex Maier:
> Based on the ID from the " The Aquarium Plant Handbook" Published by Oriental Aquarium, This plant is Limnophila hippuroides.


Did you find the picture in the book ?

Here is what I found when doing google search under Limnophila hippuroides

Taken from this website:
http://members.fortunecity.com/news2/aquaticplants.htm




























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## imported_Ghazanfar Ghori

The pictures are named aromatica1.jpg aromatica2.jpg and aromatica3.jpg
I wonder if thats a synonym

-
Ghazanfar Ghori


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## Guest

Here is what I found under Limnophila aromatica

Limnophila aromatica ????

Limnophila aromatica ????

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## Mortadelo

DonÂ´t trust the first link Jay, I helped Ernot IDÂ´ing that plant and, at that time my best guess was L. aromatica, but after reading this thread I am soooo confused.

My planted aquarium blog
http://www22.brinkster.com/aguaverde/articulos/diario.htm


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## Cavan Allen

An update: A while back I grabbed a bunch of stems of the stuff and threw it in a cut in half milk jug (with some tank water) out on the deck. It took forever to get going emersed but is now doing pretty well. The leaves have the same vein pattern as the L. aromatica in Kasselmann, but are widest about 3/4 of the way down the leaf and not so pointy at the tip. Narrow oblanceolate (488 Kasselmann) but but so rounded off at the end. 7-9 teeth on either side of leaf. 3-7 leaves per whorl. Leaves green with no red. No flowers as of yet. 

I have moved it to a sunnier location and stepped up fertilization. More to come.


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## Cavan Allen

Update: I moved it to a sunnier location. Apparently, it takes a _long_ time to acclimate to emersed conditions. Now that the stems are maturing, they only have 2-3 leaves per whorl. Purplish on the bottom. Strong scent! It's a dead ringer for the stuff in the picture that Svennovitch posted. To me it looks like it's a many leaved variety of L. aromatica. Still no flowers...


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## Cavan Allen

Update 3:  Flowers at last. They are the light purple flowers in the L. aromatica photos Ghazanfar linked to. I'll see if I can get some photos Thursday. 

I suspect that Ghazanfar may be right about L. hippuroides being a synonym.


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## Mortadelo

I am growing mine emersed too. It smells like cannabis to me







really!.

No flowers yet, but I guess smell might be a unique feature of this plant, differentiating it from Gratiola.

submersed










Emersed










---------------------------------
My planted aquarium blog
http://www22.brinkster.com/aguaverde/articulos/diario.htm


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## Cavan Allen

Yeah, that's pretty close to what mine looks like. MIne has red stems, but it didn't before I moved it to the brighter location. The top side of the leaves are also darker green, but that's probably just due to it growing in different conditions I'd guess. 

How did you adapt yours to emersed conditions? IME, the process is very lengthy. It was still growing many leaves per node well after it got going emersed (started it that way in June). Only now does it only grow 2-3 leaves per node.


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## Mortadelo

Mine did pretty good going emersed. I just planted two stems (one with roots, one without them) in a tiny pot filled with peat, sprayed them with water and cover it with a plastic film to keep humidity high. It took one week to see new growth. I have it in a pretty shaded location, but from what I have read on the web I think it likes plenty of light or even direct sunlight when emersed.

I tryed to remove the plastic but it can not withstand low humidity, it wilts.

It has 4 leaves per node emersed, 3-4-5 leaves submersed (very variable), very few compared with the ones in the pictures Jay Luto posted above.

Un saludo.

---------------------------------
My planted aquarium blog
http://www22.brinkster.com/aguaverde/articulos/diario.htm


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## Mortadelo

Correction. Today I saw 5 leaves per node (emersed)

---------------------------------
My planted aquarium blog
http://www22.brinkster.com/aguaverde/articulos/diario.htm


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## imported_Svennovitch

Wanted to share this picture:









For me, this is not the easiest plant, mostly because it is so slow growing. And really variable, every stalk of it has a different color. I am trying to grow a large group of it, but it takes its time.

Sven

[This message was edited by Svennovitch on Wed February 25 2004 at 01:05 AM.]


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## Phil Edwards

I've got a stand of it growing well under 2.0w/g right now and it's doing well. I can't say it's the reddest plant I've grown, but it's doing growing well.


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## Guest

On this picture you can see both colors of the leaves. I let NO3 run low that week and got this bloody purple color.










Regards,
Jay Luto


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## imported_Svennovitch

Finally I am having a nice stand of this plant.

Limnophila aromatica:









Sven

[This message was edited by Svennovitch on Wed February 25 2004 at 01:06 AM.]


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## imported_Ghazanfar Ghori

I took some to the AGA and showed Ms. Kasselmann. She IDed it as Limnophila aromaticoides.

I also got to the bottom of how it got around
to being called Gratiola! Someone brought
it from Japan to the west coast and he'd
bought it as 'Gratiola sp.' there.

-
Ghazanfar Ghori


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## Cavan Allen

She said aromatica in the hospitality room, so I was a bit surprised when she said aromaticoides at the banquet. In her book, she says that aromaticoides flowers are _white_. Aromatica flowers are purple.

Picture of aromaticoides flower here:
http://www.nbat.nl/aquarium/limnophila3.html


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## tsunami06

>I also got to the bottom of how it got around
>to being called Gratiola! Someone brought
>it from Japan to the west coast and he'd
>bought it as 'Gratiola sp.' there.
>

Nesaea pedicellata, Blyxa sp 'Vietnam', Ludwigia brevipes, and Hottonia palustris
are others that came that way from the same
trip.







If you go
to the SFBAAPS web page and go to the gallery... Rubin's gallery will have a picture
of the Hottonia before Kropp popularized it.
It's from Mr. Hertz's Japan trip.

Another fact, the original Hygrophila
corymbosa 'kompakt' in this country came from
Claus Christensen's visit to the SFBAAPS
group!

Carlos

-------------------------
"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced." -- Van Gogh


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## Guest

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Cavan:
> She said aromatica in the hospitality room, so I was a bit surprised when she said aromaticoides at the banquet.


Cavan,
She said L.aromaticoides in the hospitality room as well. You are the master of not listening all the time







. You almost missed out on RO unit as well.

-------------
Regards,
Jay Luto


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## Cavan Allen

> quote:
> 
> You are the master of not listening all the time .


That's true. ADD will do that for you. But I thought she said that it was aromatica upstairs. How could aromaticoides have purple flowers?


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