# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Nitrogen: Cyanobacteria/Blue-green algae



## p-lvp (Apr 16, 2003)

_Please move this thread if it appears in the wrong forum. I didn't know where it would best fit._

I have a nasty case of cyanobacteria/BBA that I can't seem to get under control. This forum suggests, among other things, the addition of nitrogen.

Therefore, I wonder: what source of nitrogen should I use? I browsed the gardening section and the only source of pure nitrogen (w/o urea) is bloodmeal. It is a powder and I am very hesitant to use it. Is there a granular source of nitrogen? I ask because I have been using DIY fertilization and this is the first case of cyanobacteria/BBA bloom I've experienced in over 7 years.

Side note: I never thought of the day I would be dosing Nitrogen. ::smiles:: I figure the fish and the decaying mulm should have amply provided such nutrient.

Also, I've heard references to the release of toxic chemicals by cyanobacteria/BBA. If so, should I remove my fish until the problem is diagnosed or is the toxin level negligible?

My infinite thanks.


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## p-lvp (Apr 16, 2003)

_Please move this thread if it appears in the wrong forum. I didn't know where it would best fit._

I have a nasty case of cyanobacteria/BBA that I can't seem to get under control. This forum suggests, among other things, the addition of nitrogen.

Therefore, I wonder: what source of nitrogen should I use? I browsed the gardening section and the only source of pure nitrogen (w/o urea) is bloodmeal. It is a powder and I am very hesitant to use it. Is there a granular source of nitrogen? I ask because I have been using DIY fertilization and this is the first case of cyanobacteria/BBA bloom I've experienced in over 7 years.

Side note: I never thought of the day I would be dosing Nitrogen. ::smiles:: I figure the fish and the decaying mulm should have amply provided such nutrient.

Also, I've heard references to the release of toxic chemicals by cyanobacteria/BBA. If so, should I remove my fish until the problem is diagnosed or is the toxin level negligible?

My infinite thanks.


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## TJ (Mar 20, 2003)

Read the topic on Phosphate firther down this page. This will tell you all about BGA. I know it's my thread and just cured it with 100% success.

You require POtassium Nitrate for tanks.

KN03 is the Chemical symbol.

Since you are from the USA you can get it oline from LITEMANU

Think i'm right on the address.

Cheers
Mike

They can hide, but they cant escape


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## Kathy (Feb 2, 2003)

Potassium nitrate is the main ingredient of some kinds of stump remover. The one I found even has directions on how to dose plants as a fertilizer.

If you are worried about BGA being poisonous, siphon it out with airline tubing.


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## Guest (May 3, 2003)

You can do the blackout method and it'll be all cleared up in 3 days.

Remove all of it you can, trim plants as needed.
Do 50% water change, add about 1/4 teaspoon of stump remover(KNO3)per 20 gal of tank, remove CO2, increase surface turbulance. Cover with blanket/trash bags etc so that no light at all gets in. 

Wait 3 days. Remove cover, reconnect CO2, reduce surface turbulance, do 50% water change and add the KNO3 back in again.

Now keep up on dosing the KNO3 may at 1/2 or 1/4 dosings and/or feed your fish more.

Plant mass likely got larger than the amount of N being supplied by your fish and sucked all the NO3 out of the water column stunting the plants.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## p-lvp (Apr 16, 2003)

Thank you for all the prompt replies. I have already read the "Phosphate" thread and started it 2 days ago.

My main concern is that the "light-out" will only be a temporary solution. I want to prevent future outbreaks of this cyanobacteria. Following instructions from the Algae Guide thread, I tested my water for possible causes of the cyanobacteria outbreaks. The culprit turns out to be nitrates since all other levels are w/i "acceptable" range(s).

As such, in hope of preventing future outbreaks, I am going to start adding nitrate to my fertifilization regiment once the Light-Out period is finished. And since I am making my own fertilizer, I wonder what nitrogen source(s) should I use. Browsing the gardening section, I found Bloodmeal and Urea, both of which I do wish to add to the aquarium since (1) Bloodmeal contains water insoluble components along w/ other particulates, and (2) Urea is toxic to the fauna. From your replies, I wonder if the KNO3 in Tree-Stump-Removal products will suffice as an acceptable nitrogen source (as well as potassium I presume)?

Currently, my fertilization regiment is a weekly 20% water change with 2 granules of K, 2 granules of PO4, and 1 granule of micronutrients at time of water change. It's vague







but it works, giving me very lush growth (including the fussy stem plants) with no algal problems (beside the initial break-in period) until now.

I apologize for being unclear and really appreciate any insight.

[This message was edited by p-lvp on Sat May 03 2003 at 05:54 PM.]


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## Guest (May 3, 2003)

Well the blackout is simply to kill hwta's there, the KNO3 part is to have your plants grow well and not have the algae come back.

A basic idea is that when the plants grow well, the algae does not. Stick to that you'll be fine.
Cyano is easy to get rid of this way.

Other forms of algae are tougher but follow the same basic routines and methods.

Kill it and get what's there out of the tank, next re set the nutrients and a water change.
Now keep up on the nutrients.

You can see the estimative index over on the Dallas Fort Worth plant club site for a more in depth look at this approach.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## DaveStall (Feb 14, 2003)

This probably isn't the case here, but I wanted to throw in an observation that I have made over the last year or so in which I have been fighting bga nearly the entire time.

I have always seen people connecting a lack of nitrogen (or at least a lack of nitrates) to cyano outbreaks. In fact, this lead me to dosing my tank with KNO3, as indeed I found that I had 0 nitrate readings every time I had a severe outbreak of bga. BUT .. and this is my point .. further testing showed a serious error in my measurement methodology. I started to take daily nitrate readings, as I knew my bga would be back in three weeks or so. What I found was that I had solid nitrates (10-20ppm) UNTIL the bga got out of hand. At that point, my nitrates very quickly dropped to zero, I assume due to the bga consuming every last bit.

So, perhaps in many tanks it is correct to advise dosing the tank with nitrates to keep bga away, but it certainly isn't the case in all tanks. The only way to truly know if a lack of nitrates caused the bga, or rather if the bga caused a lack of nitrates is to take frequent measurements of the nitrates in the tank. Testing the nitrates after the bga is a problem is next to pointless IMO and IME. 

Dave


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## Guest (May 5, 2003)

All tanks have it, it just tends to get out of hand in low NO3 or too high NO3's also.

CO2 and NO3 are the two big issues with bad algae infestations. Too little(NO3 or CO2) or too much(NO3) can get you.
Other things can slow plant growth down and this can help some species of algae to grow and become a problem.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## DaveStall (Feb 14, 2003)

That's good information Tom. I'm not sure I have heard too much discussion on high nitrates causing cyano problems (probably because most people are running high light / CO2 enriched tanks?). Perhaps high nitrates are a problem area people should look at when running medium-lighting / non-CO2 added tanks.

Dave


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## Guest (May 6, 2003)

High NO3 can cause a number of issues both in tank and in nature.
Too much loading will destablize any system pretty much and switch things to a bacteria dominanted system.

Some folks have higher NO3 in non CO2 tankjs which MAY be okay since the tank might be controlled more so by Fe/light etc.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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