# DSM Questions



## atc84 (May 18, 2013)

I plan on completing a dry start method soon with some Baby Tears (Micranthemum umbrosum) and i have a few questions:

How much lighting should i have for a 5 gallon, and do i ever need to turn off the light while emersed? i plan on getting this fixture: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Bayco-8.5-Clamp-Light/14003467?action=product_interest&action_type=title&placement_id=irs_middle&strategy=PWVUB&visitor_id=68070013956&category=0%3A91083%3A1045959%3A1074767%3A1072088&client_guid=bf17d26e-13ce-4bd3-8ef1-56e54036e0fb&config_id=0&parent_item_id=14003468&guid=f9e85ea1-54dd-4890-8f85-da5abd381eba&bucket_id=irsbucketdefault&findingMethod=p13n with this bulb: http://www.amazon.com/GE-Lighting-89095-replacement-1600-Lumen/dp/B002YEXMUK/ref=pd_sim_hi_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0KWSC634E8R3TQ2S0C0H .

I'm not going to use CO2 after submersing my foreground plants, so is there any way to prevent too much melting? since i'll keep only 1 plant species it wont be fighting for co2 (right?). Would filling the tank only half way at first help, since there would be better gas exchange?

Thanks.


----------



## drunkaquarist (Feb 28, 2014)

I only know anecdotal information about DSM so I'm doubt I should be commenting but here's my two pieces of copper. Without CO2 injection you're going to see a huge drop off in levels when you submerge and I would think that would cause significant melt as the plants adjust. There was a fellow on youtube who captured this, though he was dry starting more than one species. I don't think I can find that video again though.


----------



## whiskey (Oct 9, 2004)

The biggest struggle I, and most it seems have with dry start is getting the tank too wet. You are looking for humidity about like a cigar humidor, around 70%. It is very easy to get close to 95% and with standing water, or high humidity you are sure to get mold. Mold will wipe everything out very quickly.

You do want to run a normal photo period, and I don't think filling the tank half way will help when you fill - I'd just fill it all the way and get it over with.

I'm not sure if baby tears will work in no CO2, I do think at least one person has done it, and the trick was said to be having only that plant,.. but it is definitely not the easiest. HC does work very well with the DSM method though, it grew like crazy for me.

Whiskey


----------



## atc84 (May 18, 2013)

Thanks for the replies.

the reason i chose Baby Tears is that it's said to only require medium light, so i thought i could get away with no co2 after submersing. Unless there's something i'm missing...

do you have any advise on how to keep humidity at a good level?


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

atc84 said:


> Do you have any advise on how to keep humidity at a good level?


Yes, it's called the manual method.  I kept my two DSM tanks covered with glass or Saran Wrap, but with a crack open. When it got too humid, as shown in one of my pictures, I just opened up the tank to dry it out a little. The DSM worked very well for me, and the Baby Tears was a stellar plant species.

In my article 'Small Planted Tanks for Pet Shrimp,' I describe the DSM setup process for two tanks in detail. Article can be downloaded free off my book's website at: http://www.atlasbooks.com/marktplc/00388.htm

I ran my DSM tanks for years. Some species died out, but the Baby Tears never faltered. I think you're on the right track. Don't get discouraged; it's worth trying. I had a lot of fun with those two tanks.


----------



## whiskey (Oct 9, 2004)

The above is exactly what I did as well,.. with one difference. I got one of those wireless outdoor temp/humidity monitors for $20 that are supposed to tell you whether to wear a coat in the morning but put the sensor in my tank instead. That way I could keep an eye on the humidity and adjust my saran wrap (glass tops in my case) appropriately.

I was inexperienced and didn't know how wet (Visually) the plants should be so this was helpful for me.

Whiskey


----------



## junebug (Aug 5, 2013)

Be sure to post pics, atc. Can't wait to see how it turns out!


----------



## atc84 (May 18, 2013)

The DSM method would work fine with gravel like floramax, right?


----------



## nickmcmechan (Mar 23, 2014)

dwalstad said:


> Yes, it's called the manual method.  I kept my two DSM tanks covered with glass or Saran Wrap, but with a crack open. When it got too humid, as shown in one of my pictures, I just opened up the tank to dry it out a little. The DSM worked very well for me, and the Baby Tears was a stellar plant species.
> 
> In my article 'Small Planted Tanks for Pet Shrimp,' I describe the DSM setup process for two tanks in detail. Article can be downloaded free off my book's website at: http://www.atlasbooks.com/marktplc/00388.htm
> 
> I ran my DSM tanks for years. Some species died out, but the Baby Tears never faltered. I think you're on the right track. Don't get discouraged; it's worth trying. I had a lot of fun with those two tanks.


Diana, I was interested to read in the article that you used root tabs in your DSM. In your book my understand was to avoid this as they would cause denitrification in the soil?

Domyoumuse them because the carpeting plants have, initially, a very small root structure, thereby providing them with vital nutrients from the offset?

Were the root tabs just above the soil layer, in the sand?

Thanks


----------



## Rusty (Apr 18, 2014)

to the op, I ran my dsm with hc on inert sand. I just used some fertilized water to provide nutrients. Also, I ran my lights for 16 hours to promote maximum growth. Definitely keep the water level below the substrate to avoid algae and keep the humidity controlled  Good luck!


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

nickmcmechan said:


> Diana, I was interested to read in the article that you used root tabs in your DSM. In your book my understand was to avoid this as they would cause denitrification in the soil?
> 
> Did you use them because the carpeting plants have, initially, a very small root structure, thereby providing them with vital nutrients from the offset?
> 
> ...


Because the soil was not submerged for the first 8 weeks, there was plenty of oxygen such that fertilizers would not generate toxins. Denitrification is an anaerobic process. Any nitrate fertilizer would not generate nitrites, nor would sulfates generate H2S under aerobic conditions. Also, the fertilizers couldn't stimulate algae, because there was no water layer.

Therefore, there was little downside to adding a tiny amount of fertilizer. It might not have been necessary, but the clay soil that I started with was from an unfertilized part of my yard. I especially wanted to incorporate phosphates into the soil to stimulate root growth. Nitrates would help the plants.

Also, the sand layer was probably less than 1/4", just little bits that I spooned in. There was not much need for a soil cover. I realized that tiny plants have tiny roots; a deep sand layer would make it hard for them. Besides, by the end of 8 weeks, the plants covered most of the soil. Meanwhile, the clay particles had pulled together into a cohesive sediment, thanks to bacteria biofilms.

I mixed just a _teeny_ amount of fertilizer with the soil (just the powder from two little aquarium plant tabs per 2 gal tank).


----------



## nickmcmechan (Mar 23, 2014)

dwalstad said:


> Because the soil was not submerged for the first 8 weeks, there was plenty of oxygen such that fertilizers would not generate toxins. Denitrification is an anaerobic process. Any nitrate fertilizer would not generate nitrites, nor would sulfates generate H2S under aerobic conditions. Also, the fertilizers couldn't stimulate algae, because there was no water layer.
> 
> Therefore, there was little downside to adding a tiny amount of fertilizer. It might not have been necessary, but the clay soil that I started with was from an unfertilized part of my yard. I especially wanted to incorporate phosphates into the soil to stimulate root growth. Nitrates would help the plants.
> 
> ...


Thanks Diana, fascinating.


----------

