# Long time fish keeper, new to NPT - VERY confused



## mpagri (Dec 7, 2007)

I can no longer deny the fact that my jack dempsey has outgrown his 29g and am moving him into a 55g. I want to convert the 29g into a nice planted tank. Have not messed with plants much at all yet in my years of fish keeping. 

So I did what I always do when I decide I want to try something new, I hit the forums. At first I saw picture of AMAZING tanks and I was really excited to get this project going. But digging deeper, I found that all these tanks had CO2 injection on them and MH lighting. I knew for sure I didn't want to mess with that. So I almost gave up my plan, under the impression that i had to have CO2 to proceed.

Then I found naturalaquariums.com and that was new life, it seems like there are many plants I can keep without CO2. 

Then from there, I found this place, and on here after a quick glance it seems NPT is a huge following and people grow even plants I had given up on and people are against even using excel. So I'm confused, Can I do it without CO2 and MH or not? 

Its a 29g tank. 
I'll need new lighting, I am thinking one or two big PC bulbs. (spirals?)
Substrate I cant really figure out, I have sand in it now, I was thinking flourite all the way or flourite and sand, but now maybe soil and sand? 
I think drift wood or dark petrified wood.

Plants
I wanted to do carpet of foreground on two side with open middle, wanted to do glosso i think but had given up on that and was considering moss maybe. 

i would like some taller grasses to come up out of the glosso in the mid, like some chain sword or something? (sorry bare with me, a LOT of plants to learn at once)

And back, I would like just really thin tall plants, looks like onion grass, dont know name yet.

Fauna
Harlequin Rasboras maybe or CPDs (how many can i keep in there?)
ottos
shrimp?
freshwater flounder

wow sorry, this got really long. I'm pretty excited..


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

First of all let me say that from one long time fish keeper to another, I can relate and know how you feel. After successfully keeping freshwater fish only tanks for 9 years, I was in awe and inspired when I saw pictures on this and other planted tank forums of beautiful planted tanks. I was inspired and motivated by this and driven to attempt keeping a planted tank.

My first attempt was try to convert my 40 gallon fish only tank to a planted tank. I did lots of reading and research and figured how hard can it be. Purchase a c02 pressured system(spent hundreds of dollars), get some decent substrate(I used a combination of Schultz Aquatic Soil and fluorite), and get a good lighting system(I spent a couple of a hundred dollars on AH supply 2 55watt brite light). Put everything together and topped it off with PPS-Pro fert. I figured in no time I would have a beautiful tank with nice lush greenery. Well, I ended up with a chronic case of all types of algae and it turned out to be a disaster. In other words, a real dog's breakfast and I am still cleaning up the mess.

I then set up a smaller high tech DIY c02 tank to test some controversial anti-algae measures.
http://azdhan.googlepages.com/thelostworld
That proved to be much more successful, but still too high maintenance.

I shifted gears and experimented with a Natural Planted 5 gallon and a Tom Barr type low maintenance non c02 tank.
http://azdhan.googlepages.com/thelostworld2
This is what I was the most happy with and amazed by the plant growth I experienced.

In hindsight, if I would have known that a beautiful planted tank with good and healthy plants, and little or no algae could be had, I would have saved the needless hundreds I spent and gone the low tech, low light, non-c02 route(natural planted tank or Tom Barr Low Light tank) with my 40 gallon.

You can put together a beautiful low tech planted tank with hardy plants such as anubias, egera densa, cardaine, apongentons, tiger lotuses, java fern, java moss, hygrophilia polysperma, and hygrophilia difformis and in the process save yourself a lot of money, not to mention the headaches and effort of trying to maintain a stable and balanced high tech, high maintenance, algae free, c02 injected tank.

I am not discouraging you from the high tech route, just telling you to weigh your options carefully. And keep in mind that it is much easier to slowly convert a non-c02 low tech to a c02 injected tank with a greater variety of plants over time than doing the reverse(i.e., making an abrupt switch from high tech to low tech).

My suggestions for plants:

Grasses: Pygme chain swords, Vallisneria, and Sagittaria subulata. Although some say that due to alleopathy Vallisneria and Sagitarria don't do well when grown in the same tank.

For mid ground, you cannot go wrong with Swords and cryptocornes

For foreground or carpet plants, I would suggest Pelia (Monosolenium Tenerum),Baby Tears (Hemianthus micranthemoides), and java moss.

You also need to put some floating plants in there to prevent an algae takeover. I suggest egera densa, cardamine, and water lettuce

For a nice touch of red, you cannot go wrong with a Tiger Lotus. It is hardy and beautiful, not to mention algae resistance, at least in my experience.

As far as fauna:

Bristlenose Plecos
Otos
Amano, Cherry, Ghost Shrimp.
Black Mollies
Rosy Barbs
Snails(MTS are really good and Nerite snails)
White cloud minnows
cherry barbs
female bettas

Substrate: I would go with top soil capped with either schultz aquatic soil, traction sand, or pea size aquarium gravel. Be careful with using very fine sand as it may or may not compact and if it compacts it can create huge problems with regard to hydrogen sulfide production, anaerobic pockets, and root rot.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

I wish I knew about NPT when I first started.. I started with a semi-high-tech tank.. It's not that bad but I have better luck in a NPT.

I have 2, one with top soil capped with schultz aquasoil (flourite), and one capped with small gravel.. Both are doing well. And I use spiral CF too.. You just need to find good deep reflectors or make them yourself. And give your tank plenty of sun to give yourself the chance to grow more variety of plants like a carpet plant of some sort.

Give it a shot.. It might not work your first time or you'll get it on your first try.


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## mpagri (Dec 7, 2007)

Thanks for the thorough reply. I'm glad to be back on track to my planted tank. 

Just gotta find lighting and figure out substrate.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

You might want to invest in this book: Ecology of the Planted Aquarium, by Diana Walstad. It gives a ton of great info in an easy to read manner. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what she says. I just got this book after I decided to go high tech.

I have grown plants for years with decent light, using flourite/laterite and gravel as a 50/50 mix. I used many of the plants Homer_Simpson suggested. There are SO MANY plants out there that will grow without the high tech approach. You will be very pleased and impressed with yourself. It's a great place to start with plants. Going high tech at the beginning would make me crazy!!

A few suggestions/warnings:
1. Make sure the plants you buy are true aquatics. Many LFS sell those that aren't. Even some online companies sell plants that are not true aquatics. This will only frustrate you - you will think you are doing something wrong when all along it's the plant that CAN'T grow in water!
2. Unless you go with the El Natural tanks make sure you keep up with your water changes. That and fast growing stem plants will help keep the algae away.
3. Adding Excel supplies the carbon that CO2 supplies in a high tech tank. It works. I didn't do it all the time but did find that I got better plant growth with it.
4. If you use the gravel flourite approach you will need to use plant tabs for your rooted plants. Fish wastes do not supply enough nutrients to grow your plants. REALLY - they don't.

You are going to have so much fun! You will be hooked on the plants! READY... SET... GO!


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Tex Gal said:


> . . . 4. If you use the gravel flourite approach you will need to use plant tabs for your rooted plants. Fish wastes do not supply enough nutrients to grow your plants. REALLY - they don't.
> 
> You are going to have so much fun! You will be hooked on the plants! READY... SET... GO!


Well, to confuse things, I have a 29 gallon NPT that is in its fourth year and the rooted plants, mainly crypts, are growing well and need pruning. The substrate is topsoil covered with 2 - 3 mm gravel. I don't use substrate fertilizers. There are a good number of fish in it.

Bill


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## mpagri (Dec 7, 2007)

I think I'm going to do fluorite capped with sand and I guess i dont mind doing root tabs.

After reading again I realized most people said soil, my only thing is, this tank is going to look like this for along time now, i dont want the soil to be "uncapped" and all over the tank in a year. could there be anything in there that will make the soil rot?

And will pelia make a mess too? That looks like something i'd be into, long as it stays down. wont attach to/in substrate right?


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

mpagri said:


> I think I'm going to do fluorite capped with sand and I guess i dont mind doing root tabs.
> 
> After reading again I realized most people said soil, my only thing is, this tank is going to look like this for along time now, i dont want the soil to be "uncapped" and all over the tank in a year. could there be anything in there that will make the soil rot?
> 
> And will pelia make a mess too? That looks like something i'd be into, long as it stays down. wont attach to/in substrate right?


If you cap fluorite with sand, the sand will eventually work its way down into the fluorite and you could end up with compaction problems and possible root rot. You are better off to use fluorite alone or fluorite over root tabs.

Yes, initially while the pelia is getting established it is said that it does make a mess. Once established no problem. Unlike riccia, it does not have to be anchored down, it is heavy enough that it should sink and stay on the bottom.

The idea of a Natural Planted Tank is to use topsoil capped with 3mm or more gravel. Some EL Naturalists have successfully used Schultz aquatic soil, fluorite, eco-complete, to cap the top soil. As far as the soil being all over the place after a year, unless you do a lot of uprooting and rearranging of plants that should not happen. As far as root rot and compaction with soil, I have read mixed things and am still experimenting to find out for my self. Someone with more experience with Natural Planted Tanks can best answer this.

Here is a link by DataGuru that shows a step by step to setting up a Natural Planted Tank that you might find helpful.

http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTankDemo.html
http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html


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