# [Wet Thumb Forum]-BGA revisited



## Doomer (Feb 2, 2003)

Ok' I know how to get rid of this stuff. Blackouts and/or antibiotics. What I need to know now is how to keep it away. What I'm asking is what actually causes it ? Being a bacteria rather than an algae I suspect it has different causes.

Thanks


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## Doomer (Feb 2, 2003)

Ok' I know how to get rid of this stuff. Blackouts and/or antibiotics. What I need to know now is how to keep it away. What I'm asking is what actually causes it ? Being a bacteria rather than an algae I suspect it has different causes.

Thanks


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

I find it sometimes in my non planted tanks,
alway 0 nitrate and temp above 80F.

I'm not saying you need either of the above
to have this stuff, but this is what I always see!


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## Ploppy (Feb 2, 2003)

Even more than "real" algae bga thrives in poor water conditions. Lack of current in the water seems to often be a factor. Dodgy, inconsistent Co2 is also a big factor. + low nitrates

I seem to have gotten my bga problems under control at last, (at this moment at least







) by adding potassium nitrate and changing my diy yeast Co2 bottles more regularly, (ie weekly).


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## Doomer (Feb 2, 2003)

I stopped dosing nitrate about 3 weeks ago. Reason being, I have a 75 gal. with no algae to speak of. I have never dosed nitrate in this tank. Nitrates are always around 20ppm. I figured it's because of decaying organics in the Eheim 2028. I figured that the big tank should reach that point to in regards to nitrate eventually. It's currently between 5 and 10 ppm. 

Guess I'll start dosing again when I do my weekly ater change tomorrow. Is low nitrates the direct cause or is it a situation similar to plants outcompeting algae ?


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2003)

Do you have a lamott NO3 kit?
Do you test often to see?

I'd do the 50% water change routine and add the KNO3 , K2SO4, traces, PO4 all back while keeping the CO2 nice and high.

You know that routine.

I think folks starting new tanks have troubles since the plants in the new tanks often are not as densely packed as an established tank and not as healthy yet. There are other cycles/interactions besides the N cycle etc that occur in the substrate.

Rather than trying to figure what and which etc, I just add fresh mulm to the gravel shich has whatever the established tank already has.

This really does work well.

Just give the plants what they want. Adding fish etc might help the NO3. But unless you have a good kit, I'm leary of the readings.

I can test tilll I'm blue but it's simply easier to drain the tank and add fresh water and KNO3 etc back.
I KNOW what's in there then.

And the plants will respond everytime to this and it will hurt the algae everytime also.
I know it;'s a big tank but if you get the right hoses and drain/refill set up, you can do this in a 30 minutes or less. 

A friend has a 92 gallon he set up and can change 75% in 5 minutes. Big tanks are worth looking into better water changing ideas.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Doomer (Feb 2, 2003)

Thanks Tom, By mulm I assume you mean the grunge that builds up over time on the bottom ?
I don't have any available to me so I'll have to do without. I have a 75 gal and a 29 gal. fully established planted tanks neither of which have any mulm in them.
Both the other tanks are at equilibrium with no algae to speak of. I've been trying to figure out what it is that's different about the big tank and the only thing I can come up with is that I've dosed it extensively based on advise I've gotten here. The other 2 tanks have basically been getting the leftovers and I haven't really given them much attention beyond normal maintenance. Maybe I should just leave the big tank alone. Maybe it's trying to tell me something.


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2003)

You can try that method and see.

Mulm is present in both of the other tanks, but after trimming a 1/4 section, vacuum the gravel in that area. There's plenty in there.
You can either wait for the time for this build up or add some seed mulm to get things going.

Or do lots of water changes and resets and just keep on top of things for about 1-2 months till things settle down.

Lots of Herbivores like shrimps and tons of plants from the start really helps out.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Doomer (Feb 2, 2003)

Did a major reset today. 2 water changes for a total of about 60%. Syphoned out as much of the BGA I could and dosed everything I had. The battle continues. The stem plants and wisteria are growing like gang busters. Wish the rest would follow suit.


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## otherguy (Feb 2, 2003)

I had some BGA I couldnt get rid of and I plugged in my uv and within a couple of days it was gone. I know it isnt the right way but it worked for me.


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## Doomer (Feb 2, 2003)

I've had a 36 watt UV unit running on this tank since I set it up so that's not the answer for me.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2003)

Are you going to blackout again or wait and see? 
I do the blackout after and it works great.
Main thing is afterwards dosing the tank good and keep on top of water changes.

If you try to "power through it" without the blackout, go in an attack the BGA while it's just getting started after a couple of days or so and fluff the stuff up with your hand and net out with a fine mesh brine shrimp net etc.
Get anything that should not be there out.

Picking and harasssing the algae is a very good but overlooked method to control.
I've gotten rid of a few spoecies this way actually but it's no guarantee. But it will never hurt and will help some at the bare minimum. Lots of work though.

Is it on the plants mainly in the upper regions or on the gravel etc?

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Doomer (Feb 2, 2003)

I'm starting a blackout this morning. I'm going to leave the lights off till Friday. I've been netting the stuff like crazy the last 2 weeks. Even thought about cranking up the Vortex and attacking it to get it in the water column but at this point there's so much of it I doubt I'd do more good than harm. I should have started a blackout a week ago. It's very much out of hand now.


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## Madpiano (Feb 4, 2003)

I am not sure about different kinds of BGA, but low Nitrates is definitley not the cause, as I have BGA in my tank as well and I have an ongoing battle with high Nitrates in this tank. The BGA I have mainly collects around the tips of my Amazon Sword, where it touches the surface of the water, and if I don't remove it, it grows downwards from there. Funny enough, this is also an area of high water movement....

I haven't tried blackout yet, but currently it isn't a big problem and I can remove it every week. I had loads more in the tank when it was first set up (in all our tanks actually when we first had them), but it disappeared after a while. Maybe just manually remove as much as you can when you change water and wait for 2-3 weeks. You may find that it disappears as quickly as it arrived...


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## Doomer (Feb 2, 2003)

Thanks. I'm hoping it will eventually disappear. I noticed too that water movement didn't seem to have any effect on it. I pointed a powerhead at an area heavily infested with it and waited for it to start to disapear and it never did. ditto with nitrates. Blackouts do work but what I need to know is the underlying cause.


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## Kathy (Feb 2, 2003)

I had some growing at the base of my gravel and if it crept up onto the glass I pointed a filter outflow at it. It wouldn't grow up, didn't disappear, it just didn't grow up anymore. I bet your BGA was doing the same. Got to remove the mat and then the extra flow might keep the infestation smaller. 

It isn't low nitrate or high nitrate so much as an imbalance of nutrients. When mine was so bad there was no nitrate, some phosphate and I wasn't adding potassium. With a brightly lit tank supplemented with CO2 it is easy to get low on something. I suspect I still underdose micros.

Sometimes there is a small amount of BGA on the tips of my plants growing at the surface. In my case, mostly in the growing tips of stem plants. That would be a low water flow area. I have had it on dead swordplant leaves but not attaching to living ones.

If a brine shrimp net would work on the floating strands I guess a diatom filter would take them out too. Sure would have been nice to remove the sessile slime and then filter out the floating strands with a diatom filter back when it was so bad in my tank. It was kind of fun in a gross way sucking the BGA from the tank with an airline siphon daily. Would have been more fun if I didn't have to do it daily!


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## Doomer (Feb 2, 2003)

Thanks Kathy, after reading your post I remembered that the co2 was still on even tho the tank is in blackout. Just turned it off. It may indeed be a nutrient imbalance. I'm still learning how to dose a large tank and I may be overdoing it. Part of my problem is I lack the necessary patience. Waiting for 2 weeks or more to see results is something I have a problem with. I'm working on it tho.


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## otherguy (Feb 2, 2003)

Doomer, did you read the article in the aquarium science section about the nitrogen phosphorus ratio??? Could this maybe help with your ongoing battle????? Wetman seemed to link it with bga I think?? I did not read the whole article because I need the idiots guide to those kind of articles. Just thought it might help ya.


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## Doomer (Feb 2, 2003)

Thanks otherguy, I'll check it out. Just starting day 4 of the blackout, one more day to go after today. The lights will go on again Saturday morning. I'll do a weekly cleanup and don't plan to dose the tank until the following weekend. I hope to determine if the problem lies in my dosing regime. At this point I'm ready to write the plants off and start over. If they survive, fine, if they don't that's fine too but the algae and BGA have got to go.


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Doomer:
> I'll do a weekly cleanup and don't plan to dose the tank until the following weekend. I hope to determine if the problem lies in my dosing regime.


Doomer, Tom is giving you lost of good advise
Why are you going against it?

You will never fix or kill you algea problems by starving your plants. You are actually helping the algea get a hold by not dosing the tank!

Yes, your problem lies in your dosing regime or lack of!

Here is what Tom said "I'd do the 50% water change routine and add the KNO3 , K2SO4, traces, PO4 all back while keeping the CO2 nice and high."

Thanks


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## captain (May 12, 2006)

I'll second what ekim and Tom said. I have been reading a lot of posts by Tom because I too HAD a BGA problem. I didn't do a black out but I have been 
1) "harassing" the algae by removing 
as much as possible.
2) Doing frequent (about) 40% water changes
3) and making sure my micro and macro 
nutrients are in place
The BGA is in full retreat and is only on a few plants now instead of on a lot of plants and all my driftwood. I expect to deal the final blow when I get pressurized CO2. This regime has been very successful in my case.

-Steve


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## Doomer (Feb 2, 2003)

What Tom is saying is what I have been doing all along. I do 50% water changes every weekend and add KNO3, K2SO4, traces (Plantex CSM) and PO4. During this blackout is the only time the co2 has been off. Apparently what I've been doing isn't cutting it so I'm trying some different things.

Nitrate 20ppm
Phosphate <>1ppm
Potassium ??
Iron ??
Traces ??
PH 6.8 (KH=5 = co2 - 23ppm)

What I plan to do is starve the tank for a week after the blackout then start the dosing again. I'm always open to suggestions. I'm sure that what Tom is saying is correct, I just have to get to the point where it will work for me. i.e. plants growing, managable algae, no BGA.

My other 2 tanks aren't getting anywhere near the attention the big one is getting and they are doing great. I suspect that the rules are different for large tanks and I have to figure out what those differences are. I'm still in the exploratory stage hence the different approaches. But reast assured that once I figure out what works I'll hold steady from then on.

I'd also like to point out my 2 biggest problems.

1. Diatoms. Looks like dirt has been sprinkled all over the plants. I've never seen this before so don't know how to deal with it.

2. BGA. Really bad BGA. It was threatening to overrun the entire tank, hence the blackout. It will be gone by the weekend but the "dirt" has resisted all my efforts. It's impossible to remove. I can't vacumn it, can't remove it by hand. All I can do is hope that it eventually clears up.


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## Doomer (Feb 2, 2003)

The blackout ended this morning. The BGA is gone. Checked nitrates and they were at 5ppm. Dosed enough to bring them to 15ppm. I'm still trying to figure out what's causing the problem and plan to take it slow for a couple of weeks to see if I can connect the BGA to something I'm doing or dosing. There's not much of any real algae in the tank at present, just a little black spot and the usual on the back wall.

Plants made it Through the blackout just fine. The wisteria grew remarkably well during the week. Hope this is a good sign. If I can get the rest growing I think I'll be out of the woods.

BTW: Thanks for the spell checker Rex. Works great.


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