# Newbie Setting Up



## medowance (Mar 3, 2006)

Yoh! A Very Newbie in proper setting up of a tank.

I going to purchase a 50 gallon (194litres) tank but not sure what are the needed accessories required such as lighting, filter system, CO2 disspenser/reactor (which is better??).

Can anyone guide me to purchase the proper needed accessories say what type of system is best for or what type of equipment are good. Some of the brand stated in this forum can be locally found in Malaysia but of course ADA product are *very!* expensive.

Thanks in advance.:hail:


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## BrianK (Feb 11, 2006)

How much money are you looking to spend and what are your goals for the tank?


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## medowance (Mar 3, 2006)

well it depends on the item using.

For example a 50 gallon tank here cost about RM 1400.00 (USD 370.00) and my main aim for the tank is creating a aqua landscape world in my living room.

Planning to change the enviroment of the tanks time to time (experiment type all the way until got perfect scape). 

Got a designscape for the tank already but not sure the accessories needed is enough. 

Cos 
1. It's an open tank so not sure 2 x 55w is enough.
2. The filtration system is those hanging at the edge of the tanks (doesn't seems to work well)
3. Not sure to use presurize CO2 or those reactor (a 1 litre bottle mix with something to create gas)
4. Test kit for the tank (require to have 1 or not).

Plant wanted is glossostigma elantinoides, lilaeopsis brasiliensis, lysimachia nummularia, egeria najas, java fern (to whole background and driftwood), and maybe some moss to stone. So basically my scape is like a green field with large tree in the middle.......


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## jeff63851 (Feb 23, 2005)

If you are planing to use plants that require high lights, such as glossostigma elantinoides, you need some co2 with the strong lights. I'm not sure if the 2*55watt works, but I use a 4*60 watt light and my glosso grows fine.

Personally, I don't use a test kit, only when I start out my tank, to check how the water is doing. BUT most people would insist you to use one, and most people here use one.

For me, I use DIY co2. Here is a great link:

http://www.plantedtank.net/articles/DIY-Yeast-CO2/7/

I hope that helps...

-Jeff


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## medowance (Mar 3, 2006)

Nice article.... can use some saving tips as well.

But what do i get as a diffuser??

I remember I have a glass diffuser which have spiral tube inside and the bell opening have this white like stone table ...... but all green now.....








Can I use it as a diffuser for the DIY kit?? and if yes.. how do i control it so it won't toxicated my fish. Will it produce bubble like crazy??? And thanks for the lighting tips as well.


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## medowance (Mar 3, 2006)

Wow after reading some of the DIY section forum.... much more question to ask.....

Ok with the DIY CO2 coz it will last till 16-30 days plus minus then remix the thing again or just readd the sugar to the mixture??

Next.. I saw lots of Fluva or Magnum...may i know what is this? Is this the filtration system??


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## BrianK (Feb 11, 2006)

medowance said:


> Can I use it as a diffuser for the DIY kit?? and if yes.. how do i control it so it won't toxicated my fish. Will it produce bubble like crazy??? And thanks for the lighting tips as well.


Unless you have 15 bottles of DIY, chances are you won't have any problem putting in too much CO2.

That diffuser would work. I have a similar one on a pressurized setup and see no reason why it wouldn't work for DIY.


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## medowance (Mar 3, 2006)

ic. thanks BrianK.

So about the mixture, after 16-30 days; do i just add sugar n yeast to it or I remix a new one each time.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Hello Medowance,

Welcome to apc. Let me try to answer a couple of your questions here.



> Ok with the DIY CO2 coz it will last till 16-30 days plus minus then remix the thing again or just readd the sugar to the mixture??


 With diy, you will need to make a completely new mixture every time. On a 50 gal, I would strongly recommend having two diy bottles hooked up and stagger making new yeast/sugar mixtures every couple of weeks. The problem with diy is that it doesn't usually provide a steady amount of CO2. Having multiple bottles with staggered solutions will help this out.

As far as getting the CO2 into the tank, the diffuser you pictured can be used. I believe you said you were planning to use an hob (hang on back of tank) type of filter. If so, you can simply feed the CO2 gas line into the intake of your filter. That way the filter becomes your CO2 reactor and 'feeds' the tank CO2 enriched water.



> Next.. I saw lots of Fluva or Magnum...may i know what is this? Is this the filtration system??


 Yes, these are types of cannister filters. Fluval and Magnum are types of filters.

As has been mentioned, glosso does require strong light and CO2 to form a good carpet. With strong light, it is really important you have good CO2. Strong light means you have to maintain your tank's parameters, ie, fertilizer levels, in a good range. Keep that in mind.

As far as test kits, some folks don't use them, some do. For starting out, I would suggest to use them so that you can get an idea of the 'rythm' of your tank - how much nitrate and phosphates are used/produced. IMO, you should get a pH and kh test kit - this will help you determine how much CO2 you have in your water. Here's a link showing how to calculate CO2 from kh and pH: http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

One more link for you to look at which is a real good introductory to keeping planted tanks: http://www.aquatic-plants.org/articles/basics/pages/index.html

Good luck, and ask away. We have all been where you are now.


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## medowance (Mar 3, 2006)

Thanks Bert H.

Before i started my 50g tank, i'm testing the DIY on my 27litre tank (5/7g).









The DIY instruction says to add 2 cups of sugar. Cups in term of drinking cup or scoop cup??

Because I put 2 drinking cup into a 1.5L bottle (cann't find 2.0L bottle) and 1/2 teaspoon yeast. Nothing happens within 15-20 minutes....So i though the yeast (writen instant yeast on package) not working and i put in 1 full tea spoon into the bottle and guese what happen..........bubble coming out of the difusser after [email protected]#%#!!!















Must have been a terrible mistake.........


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## medowance (Mar 3, 2006)

oh as you can c from my 27L tank the MICROSORUM PTEROPUS 'WINDELøV' i think ... the leaf are black and holes seem to appear....may I know y??

Oh and Bert H... is HOB a good filtration system?? Any good recommendation of setting a perfect filtration system??

Thanks


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Medowance,

It's been a while since I did diy, but here's what I remember from how I mixed it. Fill up a 2 liter bottle about 3/4 full of cool or slightly warm (NOT HOT!!!) water and dump it into a pan. Add two cups (8 ounce size) of sugar, and stir to dissolve it. Add the yeast (1/2 tsp sounds right) - I bought the Fleishman's yeast packets, don't think it was 'instant' though, don't remember.  Mix the yeast until it appears to be mostly 'dissolved'. Then pour all the stuff back into the bottle. You need to have a open head space on the bottle just in case. BTW, there's no magic in one bottle type over another. Actually a fatter juice-type bottle is more stable than the soda bottles. You can adjust the recipe accordingly depending on the size you end up using.

In my hands, it would take 24-48 hours before I saw decent gas production. It doesn't happen immediately. I had two such bottles tied via a 'y' connector feeding a 29 gal tank. Every two weeks I would change the mixture of one of the bottles - this maintained as steady a CO2 level as I could with diy. Each bottle stayed hooked up for 3-4 weeks before I dumped it. For me, this became a pita after several months. After I decided to switch to pressurized I kicked myself for not having done it sooner. I understand some folks don't want to or can afford pressurized, but in the long run, imo, it will pay for itself if only on the your own personal time saved. 

Regarding the filters - an hob is fine if that's what you want to use. Many folks here use cannister filters, Eheims, Filstars, Fluval, etc. They cause less surface agitation which can cause CO2 to off gas out of the tank. As to a 'perfect filter', imo, no such creature exists.


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## medowance (Mar 3, 2006)

IC ... so which means if I use th cannister filter, the mixture of CO2 and the water can be mix much better.... 

BTW for a 5lbs pressurised CO2....how long does it last?? Need to do some calculation before purshasin 1 myself. In malaysia it cost about RM 350.00 per bottle (USD 90.00/bottle 5lbs)

Oh can someone tell me why my plant the leaf edge become black and holes started to show within the leaf....

Thanks.


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## medowance (Mar 3, 2006)

The thing with HOB is it comes into my 50g tank package.

So basically I'm using 1 now which came with my small tank, which doesn't do the work. So i'm looking at those cannister filter and wanted to know more on what or which brand to use. Please comments. 

Thanks


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

IMO, a 5lb cylinder in a 50 should last you 6-8 months. I have a 10 lb in my 50 which lasts about a year, but I have a fairly high flow rate because of my hard water and run it 24/7.



> So basically I'm using 1 now which came with my small tank, which doesn't do the work. So i'm looking at those cannister filter and wanted to know more on what or which brand to use.


You can ask 5 different people and get 5 different answers here.  There are some brands which are preferred over others. Eheim is considered the top of the line by many, but they are also the most expensive. I personally use the Filstars, imo, a great filter for the $$. Check out the review section here at apc for some folks experiences with filters.


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## medowance (Mar 3, 2006)

Ok is the cylinder sold in aquarium shops are the same selling for fire dept or soft drink?? If I'll used the pressurized CO2, this so call regulator (correct me if I'm wrong) with 2 needle gauge need to be bought as well right in order to control the CO2 flow.

So my question is, 
*One,* how does these thing contol the flow cos I read something in the forum stating the regulator is the one controlling the most of flow and it's present like a computer. Am I mistaken??

*Two,* which type to purchase?? I heard Azoo (taiwan brand) is quite good.

As you stated, if I ask 5 person, 5 person will give me different answer for the filter. Most of the shops around here are selling Eheim and Fluval more and the one you mention don't seem to be in the list here. So i think I'll take Eheim but which model?? The specs on the web page....ur...ur... well I don't quite understand, therefore don't know what model to take.

So say i bought the filter, now the pump or is it a sucker?? The one which suck water to the filter and out...... What to purchase?? Saw an illustration on a web page selling these thing by 2 doctors name...can't recall the web page...and saw how these thing connect and roughly works...so is there any suggestion for the pumps?

Thanks (Sorry for my stupidity)


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## BrianK (Feb 11, 2006)

medowance said:


> Ok is the cylinder sold in aquarium shops are the same selling for fire dept or soft drink?? If I'll used the pressurized CO2, this so call regulator (correct me if I'm wrong) with 2 needle gauge need to be bought as well right in order to control the CO2 flow.
> 
> So my question is,
> *One,* how does these thing contol the flow cos I read something in the forum stating the regulator is the one controlling the most of flow and it's present like a computer. Am I mistaken??
> ...


You'll probably have to get a CO2 cylinder off of Ebay or from a welding supply store. I would call around to find the best price. You can also get them refilled at most welding supply stores.

As for the regulator, I have the Azoo and it is great. You don't need much. Basically connect the regulator to the tank, the CO2 line from the regulator to a bubble counter and then to the diffuser or reactor. With the Azoo, you only have a needle valve to work with since it predefines how much air comes into the regulator. Very easy to use.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

> So say i bought the filter, now the pump or is it a sucker?? The one which suck water to the filter and out...... What to purchase??


On a 50, you should have plenty of circulation with the Eheim so you do not need a secondary powerhead to add to it. That will be a matter of taste once you start. As to what model Eheim to get, I can't tell you, because I do not use Eheim. Go to their web site and look at the specs of the different models. My suggestion would be to get a filter that is rated above capacity for the tank you have. That should give you plenty of power to run an external CO2 reactor, (and even heater if you wanted to) and give good circulation in your tank. A lot of it has to do with how much money you want to spend. As I mentioned earlier, there's nothing wrong with an hob (hang on back) type of filter (such as Aqua Clears) if you choose to go with it.

In the US it is usually cheaper to buy the CO2 cylinder at a welding supply store or a fire extinguisher place, I don't know about your country. You can order the tank from an on-line retailer. Realize that it is not possible to ship the tank full of gas, so if you buy it on line, it will arrive empty, and you will have to fill it up. As for regulators, the azoo is fine. I believe it comes with built in needle valve. The needle valve is what allows you to control the flow of the gas very finely so as to get a slow enough flow for your tank. A bubble counter is nothing more than a device full of liquid which lets you visualize the individual bubbles coming from your tank/regulator combination so you have a way to quantitate and adjust your flow rate.

You might want to check out this site: http://www.rexgrigg.com/./co2.htm for some specific CO2 info.


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## medowance (Mar 3, 2006)

Ur..........still confuse above this regulator thing....

C if I buy this CO2 cylinder, then I connect to this Regulator right? Do I need to do some additional adjustment or setting?? Or just unwrap the thing and connect, then just open valve. Everything presto without further adjustment??
Coz I read so forum stated have to adjust pressure, output and blah blah blah....









The pic show 2 needle gauge, something circular in the middle with something attach (what is that) and a small black thing (regulator I assume??).

Actually what the function of a regulator and what is a selonoid. B'cos some item show with or without these selonoid.


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## BrianK (Feb 11, 2006)

medowance said:


> Ur..........still confuse above this regulator thing....
> 
> C if I buy this CO2 cylinder, then I connect to this Regulator right? Do I need to do some additional adjustment or setting?? Or just unwrap the thing and connect, then just open valve. Everything presto without further adjustment??
> Coz I read so forum stated have to adjust pressure, output and blah blah blah....
> ...


It's actually quite simple. Seems a lot more complicated before you actually have the stuff in front of you. That regulator connects to the CO2 tank, then open the tank's valve. After that, you simply adjust the needle valve (the thing sticking out the bottom of the Azoo regulator) until you get the bubbles/second that you want. The Azoo regulator is different from others in that you don't have to worry about adjusting the pressure from the tank to the regulator, only the output pressure.

That middle circular thing is just a junction I believe. Nothing I have had to take a wrench to. The black thing is the solenoid for use with a timer. That way it can automatically turn off at night. Simply plug it into a wall timer. The regulator regulates the air pressure while the solenoid allows you to shut it off with a timer.


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## medowance (Mar 3, 2006)

Wow that's awesome!!!! 
So which mean all I need for CO2 setup is Azoo regulator c/w selenoid, CO2 cylinder, bubble counter, wall timer, ........ that's it right??

Then connect the tube to Ehmieh Filter Canister...... the canister I only saw 2 opening, 1 in & 1 out. So how do I plug the CO2m tube in??


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## medowance (Mar 3, 2006)

Can anyone answer me this and my previous post.

Does Eheim Ecco 2234 is enough for my new 194L tank??
Oh and er....... it has its' own pump (internal suction pump???) right??? In order to suck & pump ou the water???

What will happen if I get a filter exceeded the tank requirement..eg 194L tank I take a 250L filter....wil that cause any problem???

Oh and what is the heater for anyway?? To warm up the tank?? or Any particular reason........??? Coz Ehiem Professional 2324 comes built in heater.

How the CO2 supplies later on connect to these filter??? In order to have perfect fuse with water and CO2.

Thanks


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Medowance,

According to Eheim's website http://www.eheim.com/index2.html the 2234 should be enough for your tank size. If you are not familiar with Eheim's I recommend you read through their website to get some info on them.



> Oh and er....... it has its' own pump (internal suction pump???) right??? In order to suck & pump ou the water???


Yes, you would only have to buy filter material for the filter.



> What will happen if I get a filter exceeded the tank requirement..eg 194L tank I take a 250L filter....wil that cause any problem???


No. In fact, it would probably be better to have a filter which is rated at somewhat higher than the tank which it will be filtering.



> Oh and what is the heater for anyway?? To warm up the tank??


Yes, for the wintertime when your temps at home get colder. Of course, if you live somewhere where it doesn't get cold, you don't need this.



> How the CO2 supplies later on connect to these filter???


Some folks feed the CO2 directly into their Eheims, not using one, I can't guide you here. However, you can build a simple diy reactor to dissolve the CO2, see here: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/do-it-yourself/2958-diy-inline-reactor-plans.html.


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## medowance (Mar 3, 2006)

Ic thanks for the info. 

So basically like my country, there's no point using a filter wit a heater. 

Btw thanks for all your support throughout this time.

I'll try a way how to connect the CO2 to the Ehiem then I'll post it here for everyone. 

Thanks again


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## medowance (Mar 3, 2006)

Oh can anyone tell me this DIY CO2, If i used a frozen yeast (sold by local bakery shop) how to mix it in order to work?? Do anyone have such experience??


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Don't know. I've never used frozen yeast.


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## medowance (Mar 3, 2006)

Btway, had any one of you'll use RO filter system for your fish/plant tank?? 

Any side effects??


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