# My First Rock Layout



## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

I'd like to get some feedback and some planting ideas for my first rock layout. I have always avoided rock scapes, but figured I'd give one a try for somethign new and different. I like the way it looks, but now I'm concerned that by the time I plant it most of the rocks will be hidden.

Any advice or plant recommendations are appreciated.

-Dave










A view from the top:


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## zchauvin (Jul 28, 2011)

Looks good but I would take that rock dead center out. It will give a open look to the front for hc or whatever your growing to stand out, not just be intertwined in the rocks imo

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## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

what are you going to plant?

You are tight to think that the rock feel too low once planted, pull up on some of the lower ones.


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## singolz (Oct 27, 2011)

+1 to pulling the center it would look Alot smoother, other than that it looks great


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Criticizing my own rock layouts, the small, low rocks that look so cool before planting rapidly get covered up when things grow in.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Thanks for all the feedback! I pulled up some of the rocks a bit. I considered pulling out the center one as suggested, but I've finally decided on keeping it. Once it's planted, that rock will be the difference between a "hard" textured tank or a "soft" textured one. Every tank I've done in my life has been soft...I want to make this one different.

Kevin, you had mentioned HC and I was a bit leary of using it, but I think I may end up going with that. I have access to some local dwarf hairgrass but I'm concerned about the height.

Any suggestions for a background plant? No background?

By the way, the tank will have a black/dark grey backing on it.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

I like the rest of the rocks except the centre one that looks too smooth and the structure does not seem to fit with the rest of the rocks. Maybe you would like to try reposition it, hide it partially in the soil or even replace it.


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## bigstick120 (Mar 8, 2005)

I would vary the size some more, as well as the height. You have 1 large, 1 med, then the rest small. When plants fill in you will have probably wont see most of the small rocks. The rock itself looks nice, local find?


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## zchauvin (Jul 28, 2011)

If your set on that center rock I would flit it around. The texture doesn't match the others and that's really the only thing. Perhaps push it to one side or the other also, mostly your small rocks compliment the larger pieces and with the mixed sizes and having that larger center to front with smaller rocks your kinda defeating the purpose. 

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## singolz (Oct 27, 2011)

zchauvin said:


> If your set on that center rock I would flit it around. The texture doesn't match the others and that's really the only thing. Perhaps push it to one side or the other also, mostly your small rocks compliment the larger pieces and with the mixed sizes and having that larger center to front with smaller rocks your kinda defeating the purpose.
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk


very well put and I agree 100% however it is your tank. if you like the center rock, keep it. after all it's you who's goin to be staring at your tank and not us. anyhow tank looks good


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Thanks for the continuing feedback guys. Today I played a little with the stones, added another one, moved a couple a bit, lifted some...I think it's going to look really good if I can decide on a plant to use. It will still be some time before planting up, though at least I do have all the equipment already.

Bigstick, Kevin (kwc1974) told me where he got it but I can't remember. He had a large container full of it...mush of it was more blocky and had some gorgeous bands of quartz running through them. I had a few of those pieces, but these more jagged pieces ended up being better in this size tank.


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## NatureAquariumGarden (Nov 19, 2011)

@davemonkey

Bad news for You. You can't use these rocks for planted aquarium, they contents lots of calcium carbonate, which will lift up carbonate hardness, this will cause problems earlier or later.

Calcium carbonate rocks can be used in tanaganika or malawi tanks only.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

NatureAquariumGarden said:


> @davemonkey
> 
> Bad news for You. You can't use these rocks for planted aquarium, they contents lots of calcium carbonate, which will lift up carbonate hardness, this will cause problems earlier or later.
> 
> Calcium carbonate rocks can be used in tanaganika or malawi tanks only.


Thanks for that input. I'm actually beginning to think this tank may never get filled with water...I just haven't got time to proceed with it. rogar-Si


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

So, a month of so ago I found a cool little Elatine sp. I wanted to try it out so I put about 1" of water in this tank. Then, HAAPS did a rescape of a member's tank and there was a ton of Anubias 'petite' about to get tossed. SOOOOOOO, as of May 7th, this tank went "amphibian"...and as of this afternoon:










Hard water or not, here it is. 2 x t5HO (Geissman Midday) for 4.5 hrs per day for at least the next 4 weeks (will gradually increase), pressurized CO2, Eheim 2211. All the littered-looking rubble will not remian, it's holding down my other experiment for a few weeks. Probably will be ready to come out in 5 weeks or so.

I'm trying out the petite Anubias as a ground cover. If it doesn't work, I have the _Elatine brachysperma _placed here and there and by the time I realize the Anubias is a failure, the Elatine should be in a position to start filling in.

There are also some Blyxa seedlings popping up that I can move around later on (thanks to Kevin's aquasoil that I'm using...which sat in a garage for 1 or 2 years..kinda amazing that these plants are sprouting now).

A couple stems of local _Persicaria hydropiperoides _in the back with a couple test-stems of _Ludwigia octovalvis _(which I do not expect to make it submersed...we'll see) finish off the scape for the most part. If these don't do what I want them to, they'll be replaced with 'Trident' Java Fern.


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## bluediscus (Sep 27, 2008)

I have 2 year old tank where i tied javamoss to limestone. There's also anubias nana and petite in there. They are all doing well. Never measured the hardness or anything though. I've also seen javamoss growing on limestone in the wild, just at water level. Didnt take any measurements with the water. I think the issue with hard water is that it can hold less CO2. But with plants such as these, that isn't going to be much of an issue i believe. Keep us updated with your progress!


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

bluediscus said:


> I have 2 year old tank where i tied javamoss to limestone. There's also anubias nana and petite in there. They are all doing well. Never measured the hardness or anything though. I've also seen javamoss growing on limestone in the wild, just at water level. Didnt take any measurements with the water. I think the issue with hard water is that it can hold less CO2. But with plants such as these, that isn't going to be much of an issue i believe. Keep us updated with your progress!


Yeah, I've seen the same...plants growing on limestone and in hard water. The water around here is fairly hard anyway so I'm used to it. I think you are correct...it holds less CO2...just means I'll go through a CO2 tank faster than the average hobbyist.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

It's been 8 weeks since I went fully submersed. The Anubias 'petite' is NOT doing what I want. No matter how deep it roots into substrate, the leaves are just too bouyant for the plant to stay put with any amount of disturbance. So, it'll will all come out (except what is attached to rocks...once they attach to rock/wood, they are there for good). I have found a dwarf hairgrass to replace it with and will leave the Anubias in until the hairgrass starts to grow.










I'm not very please with the back corners either. On the right side, I have some _Najas guadelupensis _that is just starting to do well. I like it alot and want to leave it, but I don't know if it will look right...depending on what I do with the left. Here's a pic where you just make out the Najas in the back behind some _Rotala romasior_. 









Here is the left back corner. There is the same Rotala at the far left edge of the back part of the pic, but the 3 stems that I think need to come out are something else. 









I'd like to replace them with Blyxa that is going bonkers in here or the Najas so the back corners match. But I'm still not sure which way I want to do it.

Oh, and in the very back, middle-back, I am trying out _Ruppia maritima _(Widgeon grass). The thin leaves look great IMHO, but it also need ALOT of light so I have to be careful since my lights are not that bright (bright bulbs and high watts, but poor reflectors).









Anyway, there's an 8-week update.


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## cookymonster (Jul 6, 2012)

mind telling me what the plant in the far left is


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## Shurik (Mar 22, 2008)

Hello, Dave! I love your first rock layout so much I would just keep it without any plants and water - hey, no water changes, no pruning, no dosing!  
I am lurking around reading countless news being like a couple of years behind of all the actions - got really busy with everything but my tanks. Really want to get it back in order and thinking what to do with it  Maybe waterless way is the way to go for me - now I have a baby boy to play with. I hope all is well with your family and everything else!
Cheers!


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

What are the plants that look like weeds? Sagittaria subulata? Actually they don't look like Sagittaria subulata to me. Cannot be valisneria. I just love plants that look like weeds


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## sharkl11 (Jun 3, 2012)

Focal point ( big rock I assume) is too much to the right.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Shurik said:


> Hello, Dave! I love your first rock layout so much I would just keep it without any plants and water - hey, no water changes, no pruning, no dosing!
> I am lurking around reading countless news being like a couple of years behind of all the actions - got really busy with everything but my tanks. Really want to get it back in order and thinking what to do with it  Maybe waterless way is the way to go for me - now I have a baby boy to play with. I hope all is well with your family and everything else!
> Cheers!


Shurik! HEY!!!!! So sorry for the late reply. I have not been on the forums much at all. Congrats on the baby! 

Totziens, the plants in there I can think that you may be referring to are Blyxa, Widgeongrass, Guppy grass, or the few experimental stems (_Ludwigia octovalvis_...which failed miserably). Currently I am trying another couple plants...update coming very soon.

Sharkl11, yes, the rock was not to be the true focus...but the crypts in front of it. I've not been truly impressed with the scape ovreall...plants are too big when they grow out.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

*Okay, so as of this morning, here is proof of gross neglect:
*










*The guppy grass actually is doing phenomenal! Not only is it staying rooted, but the color at the tops is really attractive. I'm starting to like!*









*Overcrowded plants....very clean water...trimming will NOT be fun (and it wasn't).*









New plant that I tried on a whim (thinking I had tried before and failed). It very promising...but I need to actually see how it grows in it's own "scape"...so post-trim will involve replacing much of the Blyxa with this to really test it out.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Trimmed out most of the stems leaving the Blyxa...










And then started ripping out everything except the foreground, the very back/right corner (which I left alone) the crypts (which got trimmed heavily) and the 'petite' Anubias (left it alone as well).










Finished scape...which I think is kindarisky since I don't know what that plant is going to do. I placed it in the back-middle and at the left edge/back area. Replaced some Blyxa in spots...


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

These are the survivors of what I pulled out...about half of the full volume...

This is a gallon-size bag...not a quart like the others shown.


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

I love what's happening in the most recent scape and that you're letting that beautiful Crypt shine over that beautiful foreground. And imagining the Blyxa in the back as it grows taller?! Nice.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll125/davemanthei00iq/Office Tank 2012 October/PA260021.jpg


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Thanks wet! Here are some clearer shots now that the tank has cleared over the weekend:

Full Tank Shot:









Right Side (notice the far back corner Blyxa was not trimmed/thinned with the rest...only the various stems were cut out):









Left Side (notice the far back corner was HAMMERED during trim/thin):









All of my Anubias were covered totally in algae (GSA) a month ago...now they are all cleaned...and I did ZERO cleaning on these. Also, the yellow stem poking up is Ludwigia linearis...trial run for this guy. 









A tiny bit of Fissidens I had forgotten about:


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Also, the thin whispy grass in the very far back along the wall is Widgeongrass (_Ruppia maritima_). When it grows tall, it adds ALOT to a scape. But, once it hits high light intensity, it will start to branch in shorter nodes and needs to be replanted to get the same effect.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Love the crypts...


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Beautiful tank! "I'm gonna have to get me some of that hairy grass."


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Just found your thread. Love your crypt. Which is it? 

Well Dave now you know why Iwagumi is mostly featuring hairgrass or some other small plant. I though sure you had rocks in ther somewhere. LOL. Love all your healthy plants. Also love that you go pond and ditch diving for the rest of us that are just plain chickens. :0)

Hugs to your sweet girls and dear wife.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

HAHA! Thanks TexGal...and I'll pass along the hugs. 

Yeah, Iwagumi is not for me...I like to play with several species and really let them grow. The rocks really are still in there...and now I wish they were'nt taking up valuable planting space.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Oh, I apologize...I forgot about the crypt question:

I actually don't know which it is. It came as part of a low-light package bought 4 years ago...survived the move to Houston, went to Glenn (the old man) and he has been growing it by the foot ever since. HE gave me this bit when I decided to set up the tank and it was just 3 roots (with very large leaves) plus a couple tiny root pieces. I always thought it was a C. wendtii...but really I have no idea.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

I finally trimmed the forground...and tore out the back-right corner while I was at it. I found a bit of Staurogyne that I had completely forgotten about...but don't really have a spot for it, so for now it's in that back corner with some random other stuff. Trimming the hairgrass revealed much of the hardscape again...and some plants that had been hidding in it.

I apologize for the photo qulaity. I had it set on marcro and didn't realize until after the photos were uploaded. Also, you'll notice the rt side looks "brighter" than the left. That is from the auto setting on the camera. In reality, the opposite is true...the RT side is more shaded and the LFT more bright (because of the Crypt). The camera just adjusted the exposure on each side. Anyway...


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

I really really truly love the look of your unidentified crypt too. It looks huge. Roughly how tall is it?


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

totziens said:


> I really really truly love the look of your unidentified crypt too. It looks huge. Roughly how tall is it?


It's a 12" tall tank, and I'd guess it's 10" from substrate to water surface at that point...and the tallest leaves will bump the water surface and go another 3-4" when I let them.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Ok, that's definitely a large crypt


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## Jonnywhoop (Nov 24, 2012)

Awesome tank!


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Here's another update. I just did a water change so it's a tad on the cloudy side...but I won't be here to take pics later on, so...


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

But....but.....where are the rocks, again?? 

Looks fabu, Dave!! Pretty crypt, and its' big enough to take the place of a rock!


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## Woody0229 (Oct 29, 2012)

That crypt is amazing love the lay out. How old is the tank?


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

DonaldmBoyer said:


> But....but.....where are the rocks, again??
> 
> Looks fabu, Dave!! Pretty crypt, and its' big enough to take the place of a rock!


I promise the rocks are there! I can ALMOST see them in person...they just don't show up well on camera.  Yeah...the only reason I have not pulled them out is because I don't want to make a mess. I think someone told me very early on in this thread that I had them too short...that they'd get blocked out eventually. Did I listen? Nope. 

Woody0229, thanks. You should have seen it before I hacked it back. That picture was immediately after cutting off about 20 or so LARGE leaves. It gets so big that it blocks my flow and CO2 coverage and keeps the foreground plants near it from growing very well. I do enjoy it though...reminds me of an Ozelot sword I once had in a much larger tank a few years back.

The scape, in it's present form, is about 5 months old. The tank was set up about a year ago (dry) and flooded about 7 months ago, but it initially was only Anubias 'petite' (take a look at the first couple pages of the thread to get an idea of how it was SUPPOSED to look...very different from what you see now.)


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## jpalimpsest (Dec 18, 2012)

That's a mighty fine monster crypt you've got in there.


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## jroget (May 22, 2012)

i like the rock layout its going to look nice when u get your plants in! whats going to be your live stock?


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## ryantube (Aug 9, 2011)

Are you gonna grow HC over them? How many species would you like to fill the background?


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## wakewalking (Oct 11, 2010)

Great layout, crypt looks amazing.


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