# What is going wrong? pics included



## Ckutz (Feb 17, 2010)

Hi guys, I'm new here so i hope i put this in the right section.

I'm having some difficulty getting my plants to grow well. I'd really appreciate some advice on what i'm missing.

here's the stats.
20g tall
1 Aquatech 10-20, 120 gph
1 marineland penguin biowheel 100, 100 gph (took the biowheel out though)
2x15W t8 bulbs
(been thinking about switching to t5's to reach deeper into the tank?)

fertilizers:
Brightwell Aquatics Florinmulti http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/239707/i/10/product.web a few drops every day
Seachem Excel - 1/2 cap every other day (shooting for 2 mL but don't have a better measuring device)
and seachem flourite substrate

Stocking: 4 pygmy cories, 3 serpae tetra, 3 black phantom tetra, 6 brown khuli loaches, some cherry shrimp.

What's going wrong is most my plants seem to have an issue growing taller. like these crypts I got from this guy were huge, but when they melted and grew back, they grew a bunch of leaves, but the whole plants isn't over 2 or 3 " tall. I've got this one surviving piece of ludwigia, and it's grown a few new leaves, but seems to have been the same height for months. my water wisteria is contantly growing new leaves, but they quickly get droopy and covered in this brown algae and eventually fall off.

here's pictures:










































can't post water stats cause i'm at school and left my test kit at home. 
thanks so much for any help


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## endgin33 (Jun 10, 2008)

First off, it apppears that your plants are suffering from some serious deficiencies. Suspect 1: your susbstrate looks inert which will not provide any nutrients to the root system. Suspect 2: 1.5 WPG is not a lot of light but should be sufficient- what kind of bulbs are you using? It is quite possible that you don't have the right spectrum to provide the plants with energy for photosynthesis. Suspect 3: The dosing you are doing with the florin multi provides a good mix of micros, and potassium for your macros, but does nothing to provide nitrogen and phosphate which your plants also need. Without those plants are tough to grow. Do some research in the dosing guides in the stickies at the top of the pages and you will see some different options to persue to get on track... Good luck.


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## Ckutz (Feb 17, 2010)

The substrate is seachem flourite, i thought the point of using it was it's nutrients? 

two t8 15w bulbs. 1 is 4200K the other is a GE daylight, i think it's 6500K

I'll check out those guides, i just don't want to go the EI powder method because of being in a college apt. don't want to deal with all the powders and such. stuff in a little bottle is easier to manage and store i think.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Your substrate should contain some nutrients and absorb some from the water column. How old are these plants, and where did you get them from? It's possible that they are converting from being grown emersed. Whatever the answer, I'd be interested in hearing it, because i had almost the exact same problems as you. I eventually switched to slower growing plants, like java fern and bolbitis.

Also, adding more excel eventually wouldn't hurt.. Many people, including me, overdose. I put three times the dosing on the bottle into my 20 long. It helps growth a lot, as long as you don't have serious deficiencies (so maybe now isn't the best time).


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## Ckutz (Feb 17, 2010)

I've had them all for several months. some came from a pet store, and some came from the aquarium of a local guy. 

i just looked up some deficiencies. a symptom of phosphorus deficiency is stunted growth according to the site. 

I need to order more excel and would like to get w/e other things i need at the same time. should i just try phosphorus or should i do phosphorus and nitrogen?


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## freshyleif (Jan 9, 2008)

Exactly how tall is your tank? Light has a very hard time penetrating down into water, so maybe that is part of the whole picture but I think that I might go about this problem with a couple of steps that should in the end give you a clear picture of what the tank and plants need and or have enough of. 
1. I would check the filter and power head to make sure they are running clean and the water flow is what you know it should be.
2. I would do a 10% water change every day for 3-7 days. By the end of the week if there is no change in plant growth then you can rule out nutrient deficiency in the water column. 
3.I would want to check the light. Are the bulbs still good or maybe they are getting old. Then if they are still good I would lower the water level by a couple of inches or whatever seems good and again wait for up to a week to see plant growth change.

Last I think that adding excel would be a good idea but for starts I would follow the directions on the bottle and go up after you see results.


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## Ckutz (Feb 17, 2010)

it's the typical 20 tall, 16" i believe.

on closer inspection of the one crypt i noticed some holes.








this wisteria i grew in my fishbowl/shrimp tank, it grew taller than any other wisteria plant i have, put it in the big tank and as you can see the lower leaves droop, and crinkle and get covered in the brown stuff.








difference in old and new wisteria leaves of a diff plant








difference in old and new crypt leaves








the tank as a whole









if i were to do the 10% wc daily, would i be adding my daily dose of florinmulti and excel?

thanks so much for all the replies guys i really appreciate the quick help. being new to this, i've never seen the plants fully healthy, so i don't really know what they "should" look like to compare it to.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

You can search for the plants on google images, that'll give you a good idea. Also, the holes can just be because the leaf is dying, so its decomposing. My previous problem and i think yours, is that the leaf died off too quick, and can't keep its metabolism up. This could be due to light, or nutrients.


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## Ckutz (Feb 17, 2010)

so i guess i'm going to buy some nitrogen and phosphorus. When i get to walmart i think i'll pick up a t5 light to rig up. (i buy these undercabinet lights and take them apart and fit them into the hood, much cheaper). 
if i have one 4200k bulb and one 6500k, which should i keep, what would be best. should i switch both lights to t5, or keep one t8?


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

You really don't need much space for ferts; a plastic container the size of a shoebox is enough. You can even break down the fertilizers from the bags into smaller containers to keep out for current use.

By the time you get potassium and phosphorous taken care of, you'll find your nitrates or some trace elements are dipping low. Depending on your tap water, you may lose magnesium too. You'll end up chasing these issues around one by one, where as just purely organizing a complete dosing regimen will solve the problem now whether your solution is to buy from seachem or go DIY.


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## growingwonders (Feb 12, 2010)

I would say you don't have enough light. I grow terrestrial plants for show under T8s and they are adequate at close range and for medium to low light plants, but would be hard pressed to provide enough to an aquarium. Some basic information regarding kelvin numbers is that lower number, such as 3000-4500k are higher in reds and yellows and these promote flowering in terrestrial plants, 6500k is closeset to sunlight and is excellent for foliage growth in terrestrial plants, 10000k and higer get bluer and bluer in epectrum, but these are give the most penetrating light to aquariums with marine organisms. Our foliage plants want closer to the 6500k bulbs. I would use a mixture of 6500k and 10000k or just 6500k, depending on the look you want. The slightly blueish tints given off by 10000k bulbs imply depth, imo. I think T5s would work well or try some of the cheaper power compacy fixtures available at home improvement stored and wire them into your canopy to save on cost.
Keep in mind that higher lighting increases the need for nutrients and CO2. Algaes are a sign that ;ighting, fertilizing, and CO2 are not in sync. Sometimes tap water can have nutrients that promote diatoms (brown algae) and other algae, so check your water source.
Good luck.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Ckutz,

+1 for lack of nutrients. I think endgin33 hit the major problem on the head; the Florinmulti has micro nutrients but other than potassium no macro nutrients. I would pick up some Seachem Nitrogen and Phosphorus. Flourite helps to add iron, but no macro nutrients. I would probably use some Flourish Tabs in the root area of your crypts.

Your light could be brighter (I like about 2 WPG) but your plants could be growing better with what you have if they had more nutrients. You didn't mention the spectrum of the bulbs; are they "Daylight" (about 6500K)? I would try the fertilizer route before spending the $$$ on a new light. As for the "brown algae" (diatoms), add one or two otocinclus to the tank, they will clean it up in no time.


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