# redoing a tank, substrate question



## ramis (Feb 19, 2008)

I am planning to redo my current 3 year old 20 gal setup. My plan is to do a natural low tech planted setup, no co2, no water changes. Right now I have a substrate that's 3 years old, it's a mix of peat moss, capped with fluorite and aquasoil. Should I keep the some or all of the old substrate, let's say wash it and add some new gravel on top, or should it be done with new materials, either soil or fluorite, eco complete... What is the best way to go about it?


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## Crashkt90 (May 20, 2011)

ditch it and get eco complete.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Since you are asking on the El Natural forum, this method uses a soil substrate with an inert cap, such as aquarium gravel.

There are many kinds of soil that will work. Mineralized topsoil (MTS) is a prepared substrate that is intended to minimize the start-up problems, and maximize the useful life of the substrate. You can find an lengthy sticky thread, and a great how-to graphic on the library forum.

Since you are starting over with this tank, it doesn't really make sense to keep the old substrate.


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## ramis (Feb 19, 2008)

Thank you for your advice. I read about different substrates methods, but I'll read again, thanks for the info. First, I am going to ditch my old substrate. I do want to try El Natural method, but haven't decided if I should use soil with gravel on top or some peat moss caped with onyx sand or eco-complete. I read that some use organic potting soil. I have a bag of Miracle Grow organic potting mix. Would that work for the soil layer?


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## Vonzorfox (Feb 4, 2008)

No on the Miracle Grow soil, you want the cheapest top soil you can buy with no added fertilizers. Basically dry it out and screen it a few times to get a nice fine mixture of dirt. I just set up my 75g last weekend and it went great. I purchased 3 40lb bags of topsoil from Wall-mart for $1.20 each and ended up only needing one. In my case I reused my fluorite because it was only about six months old but in my 20g I used pea gravel from HD that was cheap too. Either way you really don't need to add anything to the soil.


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## hornedtoad1 (Jun 24, 2011)

hi vonzorfox,
i'm not clear on why you said no to the miracle gro, they've already got a bag of it so there'd be no extra expense. maybe i'm missing something?


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Yes on the Miracle Grow. I have three tanks set up with it right now. Is it better than the cheap top soil? Probably not, but it definitely will work.

You will have fewer start-up issues if you soak it, skim off the floaters, and drain it first. Do this several times. You can also mineralize it, as in the library article.


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## ramis (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks, Michael. 

The Miracle Grow doesn't have any chemicals added, it's organic mix with peat moss, had many twigs and pieces of wood in it. So I'll try soaking and screening it to remove twigs and make a finer texture. I will also add some clay to mineralize it, but other chemicals described in the mineralization article seem like an overkill for my situation. I live in an apartment, so I won't have any use or space for keeping huge quantities of dolomite and muriate of potash.


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## Vonzorfox (Feb 4, 2008)

I was thinking it's the Miracle Grow with the added ferts. Just the plain stuff is fine. I was just pointing out how cheap you can buy the plain stuff. Trying to help.


hornedtoad1 said:


> hi vonzorfox,
> i'm not clear on why you said no to the miracle gro, they've already got a bag of it so there'd be no extra expense. maybe i'm missing something?


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## ramis (Feb 19, 2008)

Vonzorfox said:


> I was thinking it's the Miracle Grow with the added ferts. Just the plain stuff is fine. I was just pointing out how cheap you can buy the plain stuff. Trying to help.


Thanks Vonzorfox for your help. I think too maybe I should have gotten top soil, texture would be more fine. But if I can, then I'll use this, since I already have it. The bag was only $3, so not too expensive


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

ramis said:


> I will also add some clay to mineralize it, but other chemicals described in the mineralization article seem like an overkill for my situation. I live in an apartment, so I won't have any use or space for keeping huge quantities of dolomite and muriate of potash.


There are a couple of easily obtained substitutes for the dolomite and muriate of potash. For the dolomite, you could use crushed coral sand as sold for saltwater aquaria. For muriate of potash, buy some salt substitute sold in grocery stores for people on low sodium diets. This is pure potasium chloride, and provides the potasium that muriate of potash gives.

Ramis, are you in NYC? If so, you probably have soft water and the addition of the dolomite (or substitute) will be important.


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## hornedtoad1 (Jun 24, 2011)

hey vonzorfox,
i guess the main thing is to get something with no added non-organic ferts; nothing magical about the miracle-gro. sounds like the plain stuff would be fine.


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## ramis (Feb 19, 2008)

Michael said:


> There are a couple of easily obtained substitutes for the dolomite and muriate of potash. For the dolomite, you could use crushed coral sand as sold for saltwater aquaria. For muriate of potash, buy some salt substitute sold in grocery stores for people on low sodium diets. This is pure potasium chloride, and provides the potasium that muriate of potash gives.
> 
> Ramis, are you in NYC? If so, you probably have soft water and the addition of the dolomite (or substitute) will be important.


Thanks for your help, Michael. Yes, I am in NYC, I think my water is on a soft side. So far I've been using Seachem equilibrium when doing water changes, but never added anything to the substrate.

I just bought some some dolomite lime from Home Depot, it comes in a 5 lb bag. Crushed coral in LFS was only in big bags. I also got salt substitute. So I have everything for the mineralized soil, now only need to get gravel


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