# Can anybody expalin why the the stem of my stem plants keeps rotting away?



## Blackstar65 (Sep 16, 2008)

I have been trying to grow stem plants for the last 4 years with no luck. No matter what I do or how I fertilize the tank the tops thrive and the stem parts that are buried in the substrate rot away. The shoot out roots and rot away at the same time. My last failure has been with Red Ludwigia. Help.


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## singolz (Oct 27, 2011)

Blackstar65 said:


> I have been trying to grow stem plants for the last 4 years with no luck. No matter what I do or how I fertilize the tank the tops thrive and the stem parts that are buried in the substrate rot away. The shoot out roots and rot away at the same time. My last failure has been with Red Ludwigia. Help.


want to share your tank info: water parameters, ferts used, how much and when, type of lighting, water being used, inhabitants, etc. to get a better understanding of what you're working with.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Blackstar65 (Sep 16, 2008)

I am EI dosing a 40b on the standard schedule except I am dosing 1/16 the KH2PO4 instead of the suggested 1/8. I think the extra phosphates are fueling my algae with pressurized CO2. The current tank is a 40b lit by a aquatic life 36" T5HO dual bulb sitting on legs above the tank. I also have a 36" dual bulb T5NO deep blue aquatic fixture sitting on the glass. None of the live stock are plant eater. I can grow crypts, swords and Vals like its no tomorrow. I have Blyxa that struggling a bit This problem has happened over three different tanks using three different substrates (flourite sand and Colorquartz T grade, regular Flourite, and SMS).

i don't really trust my API kit. when it comes to Nitrates. My Nitrates are always close to 0ppm. I don't think that's right but I'll test again after tomorrow dose.


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## Big_Fish (Mar 10, 2010)

either lack of mg specifically (epsom salt) OR lack of trace/ CSM +B.
I had EXACTLY the same problem with Lugwigia Repens, Cardinalis and a couple others... I could not grow them to save my life. 
SNAIL AND SHRIMP WARNING: after I started dosing epsom and CSM +B, (about 2 months ago) the plants absolutely thrive now, (the ludwigia grows incredibly large, even shadowing out that whole side of the tank) and fish are showing no signs of ill health, the extra magnesium (epsom) or the CSM +B killed evey last shrimp I had in the tanks. (Nerite and MTS snails as well) all died suddenly within 2 weeks.


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## freshyleif (Jan 9, 2008)

1) How old are the light bulbs?
2) What is your CO2 rate?
3) what is your flow in the tank and through your filtration? When did you last clean it?
In my experience algae is mostly caused from an imbalanced tank, same for the plant problems. I have grown both Ludwigia and Blyxa and for me they like more light(unless your bulbs are old I think you have enough), more flow, more CO2, and more fertz. These things are all connected so don't just crank one up without thinking about he others. Also for me both the Blyxa and the Ludwigia like a little more KH2PO4. As far as know stem plants need some Phosphates for stem strength. Hope this is useful.


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## Blackstar65 (Sep 16, 2008)

My bubble rate is at about 3.5 a sec. via one of those glass diffusers that DRFS sells. The lights are about 8 months old. The filter is fine.


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## OVT (Aug 26, 2010)

With all due respect to all involved, I would start with the basics and then move up the problem chain. Specifically:



How do you plant your stems?

The stem should be cut just below the leaf node


Plant 2-4 nodes into the substrate


There should be no leaves under the substrate surface


Plant stems individually, not the whole bunch into a single hole




What is the health of your substrate?

If you pull a plant out, are there any noxious smelling bubbles coming up?


If you pull a plant out, does it have any roots? Are roots mostly white or rotting black?


Is the substrate too compacted? How much effort does it take to reach the tank's bottom with a pencil?


If you add MTS to your tank, do you see any of them alive after 1-2 weeks?


Do your taller plants bend in the current?


If any of the answers to the above is 'yes', then I would focus on the substrate first.

If all the answers are 'no', then I would try 1 or 2 'above substrate' plants (say, banana plant) and 1 or 2 floating plants (say, water sprite attached to the top of the outflow) and see what happens to their roots.

IME, the primary reason for rotting stems is the plant's inability to grow roots fast enough.


> I can grow crypts, swords and Vals like its no tomorrow


Please note that all of the plants you mention above are not "stem plants": they all have roots already prior to your planting.

Again, just trying to help, not to "read a lecture"
Best of luck


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## Blackstar65 (Sep 16, 2008)

OVT said:


> With all due respect to all involved, I would start with the basics and then move up the problem chain. Specifically:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I have to try the banana plant test. I'll post what happens


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## H3LLRA1Z3R (Nov 9, 2010)

Sorry to hijack the thread but I have been searching for information on this for a while to no real avail.
I replanted my tank and substrate about 2 months ago, Used jbl aquabasis and some aqua potting mix that I have previously used with no hitches.


1.What is the health of your substrate? 

I would assume it was okay if it weren't for the rotting roots.

2.If you pull a plant out, are there any noxious smelling bubbles coming up?
No, there was from a piece of driftwood I removed.

3.If you pull a plant out, does it have any roots? Are roots mostly white or rotting black?

Roots are starting to turn black

4.Is the substrate too compacted? How much effort does it take to reach the tank's bottom with a pencil?

Hard in some places soft in others.

5.If you add MTS to your tank, do you see any of them alive after 1-2 weeks?

Will have to try and get some sent to me

6. Do your taller plants bend in the current?

Yes.


have noticed my big Ech. is showing signs of nutrient deficiency also.
Any advice would be great, or even links to what others have been through. It is getting close to taking the whole lot out and starting again but I am sure there is a way around it somehow.

My Java ferns and mosses are cranking which leads me back to the substrate.

Sorry again for the hijack.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

For H3LLRA1Z3R and Blackstar65---two more questions:

Can you list all the species whose stems have rotted? 
Are there any plants, stem or crown, that have not been visibly injured and that are growing normally in your substrate? 

Some aquatic plants can tolerate highly anaerobic substrates with lots of organic matter that has a high oxygen demand. Others require a substrate where the organic matter is more resistant to decay and has a low oxygen demand. In other words, there is a range of tolerance to increasingly 'rich' organic substrates. 

I will never forget an old article in The Aquatic Gardener, "Here's Mud in Your Tank, by Thomas E. Marquis (TAG, V4#6 and V5#1, 1992) where the author mixed up 2/3 manure and 1/3 soil, (and the manure was fresh out of the cow or sheep, as I recall) and he was able to grow sword plants in it. That is about as anaerobic and stinky a mix as I can imagine, but the sword plants grew in it and were able to keep their roots from being destroyed.


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## H3LLRA1Z3R (Nov 9, 2010)

Damaged roots from the worst to only slightly damaged....

Lilaeopsis novae zelandiae, Lilaeopsis ( ?? ) looks very similar but with much thinner leaves and Ludwigia arcuata. 
I have a plant that I haven't managed to id yet, I think it is some sort of Echinodorus, the bigger one has survived and the smaller pups that it gave off have all since died.

I have a Echinodorus Red that is about 50cm high, I am too scared to pull it out but it is showing signs of nutrient deficiency.

basically they are all effected.

I went around with a chopsick before to test the compactness of the substrate and it was all soft.
One of the Lilaeopsis actually floated to the top as I prodded near it.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

It would be very informative if I could see a picture of your Echinodorus Red. 

It sounds like your substrate is much too 'rich'---too high in organic matter that has a high oxygen demand, and which ferments, producing nasty byproducrs, when the O2 runs out. I recommend you stay away from potting soils that are mostly composed of twigs, leaves and bark chunks. They have almost no mineral (non-organic) soil. Try some natural topsoil. This will have mostly humus for organic matter, and humus is what is left over after all the more rapidly decaying stuff has been broken down. Humus is good.


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## H3LLRA1Z3R (Nov 9, 2010)

Thanks I will try and get some pics up as soon as I can.


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