# Fin Rot? (tenellus)



## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

**Forgot someone suggested it may be white fungus as well.** Well I'm continuing this from my bio-spira thread. I've got some (rather bad photos, getting macro lense soon) of my glowlight tetra's fins, all but one seem to have developed the same problem with their dorsal fins. I think they are turing white, but because they have white/red stripes up the front of the dorsal I'm perplexed as to whether or not this is just regrowth or not.

Here are the details, very low ammonia/ph/0 nitrite. I have been treating with Melafix for 5 days now in my 10 gal quarantine tank as the "nips" off the tips (gah I know) of the dorsal fins were small (6x glowlight tetras). Regrowth isn't apparent unless that is what I'm witnessing. It seems to me that it is getting worse, but I can't tell for sure as they all look the same (think they may all be male from what I can tell).

Well any help would be appreciated.

Side Note:










Check out my 4 tenellus, threw them in to help out my tetras, the tetras love it and they have calmed down notably. Check out the plantlet in the middle! (counted 5 total so far) A little plant grow was added and they are going crazy, can't wait to get my plant order this weekend and to resolve this fin problem so I can move on to my 20H!

I've trimmed a lot of emersed leaves, can anyone tell me the ratio of emersed to submersed leaves it appears these have? Just hoping to have them ready for my 20H when it comes, they seem to be doing great.


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## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

OK, visited LFS where I bought them. They are treating the same tank with Triple Sulfa for Fin Rot. Theirs is more advanced than mine and is effecting the tails of the ones in the LFS. 

Bummer, but I'm glad to finally have an answer to this problem. 

OK, now does anyone have thoughts on Triple Sulfa vs. M2, tetracycline, etc? Some say to use triple sulfa and tetracyline together... 

What should I do with my plants, take them out and put them in another tank after putting them in a chlorine wash to kill the bacteria?

This infection is new to me, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## dirtmonkey (Mar 12, 2007)

The bacteria is everywhere anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about the plants carrying it.

A suggestion for the tetras... can you give them dim light and warmer water acidified by a bag of peatmoss? (the brown milled sphagnum kind). I've treated lots of problem tetras without resorting to chemical medicines, just using that method. Kind of like heat-treating ich, adding the peatmoss to acidify and "tannify" the water, no chemicals at all. Also less stress on the fishes' poor tiny little livers.

Glowlights are pretty hardy, and once the water is less favorable to the bacteria, their immune systems can do the rest.

Keep a bucket of tanned water for water changes during treatment, you'll need to change more to make up for not having established good bacteria acclimated to the acid water. (Especially if you do choose to add antibiotics of course).

I can't tell much about the leaves on the tenellus, but they do look healthy  When I was breeding glowlights, they always liked E. tenellus and S. subulata more than the java moss or spawning mops. They were even constantly spawning in a community tank over those plants in the foreground. I mean almost every single day at least a couple pairs were scattering eggs there. They loved that stuff.

I stopped growing them out when they got so cheap I couldn't get more than a few cents each from a LFS I used to do trade-ins with, had to use the breeding tanks for things that would pay enough to feed them LOL.

If you haven't bred tetras before, these would be a good one to practice with 

Vincent


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## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

> A suggestion for the tetras... can you give them dim light and warmer water acidified by a bag of peatmoss? (the brown milled sphagnum kind). I've treated lots of problem tetras without resorting to chemical medicines, just using that method. Kind of like heat-treating ich, adding the peatmoss to acidify and "tannify" the water, no chemicals at all. Also less stress on the fishes' poor tiny little livers.


Our water is pH 6.4-6.6 already does it really need to be more acidic?


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## dirtmonkey (Mar 12, 2007)

It wouldn't need to be more acidic long term, I really meant just for a treatment run. Glowlights love our local water pretty much just as it is. The peatmoss will slowly bring it down, making the water more hostile to bacteria while allowing plenty of time to adjust. pH 5.5 would be just fine for glowlights, and hard on bacteria and fungi that cause rot. The lowered light serves to reduce stress, and the higher temperatures speeds up their metabolism and healing rate.

Anyway, it's worked for me, I hope it might be helpful in case you consider avoiding the chemicals.

Vincent


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## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

OK, glowlights were doing great, moved to new tank, all other fish are doing great, but now 2 glowlights have gill rot. They have been moved to quarantine, now that I know your method how hot do I need to make it? 87 degrees like ich?


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## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

Looking around I answered my own question, 84-86 degrees for fungal infection.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

Jacking up the heat will expedite the disease, especially with fungus or bacterial infection...NOT RECOMMENDED because heat will place additional stress on the fish's immune system due to the higher reproduction rate of the fungus/bacteria.

Best treatment is to combine medicated food with water treatment. Feed exclusively with Medi Gold or Jungle's antibacterial medication (avalable at Petsmart) for ten days. I would also add Maracin 2 *and* Aquarium's Pharmaceutical's Tetracycline per the manufacturers' dosage. Change 30% of the water every other day. Treat in bare tank. Maintain treatment for 10 days.

You'll also need to feed those unaffected fish with medicated food for ten days. The pellets may be a little big. Presoak in water and cut to smaller pieces as required.

The plants can be treated separately with Maracin 2 for five days, then rinse in tap water. They will recover in about two weeks.

Lower pH can help during the early state. As with most diseases, time is not on your side.


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## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

I have a 20H with heavely rooted plants, how can I treat them seperately? I've read in several books/sites that say fungus can be treated with heat, is this wrong? Is it just luck that dirtmonkey has had success with his method? Doubling up medications seems a little extreme. Don't both of those medications treat gram-negative and gram-positive bacteria, so is it necessary to use both? I also thought that preventitive antibiotics were overkill and can make the bacteria stronger.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

01krisp10 said:


> I have a 20H with heavely rooted plants, how can I treat them seperately? I've read in several books/sites that say fungus can be treated with heat, is this wrong? Is it just luck that dirtmonkey has had success with his method? Doubling up medications seems a little extreme. Don't both of those medications treat gram-negative and gram-positive bacteria, so is it necessary to use both? I also thought that preventitive antibiotics were overkill and can make the bacteria stronger.


Your best chance is to treat the entire tank with Maracin 2 and Tetracycline at the recommended dosage. The water will turn RED, but there will be no concern with the nitrifying bacteria. There will be a lot of white stringy/slimy deposits 2 to 3 days into the treatment. You'll need to remove them with the water change. Also clean out the filter. It's going to require a lot of work on your part to change water every other day to mantain a stable water chemistry.

I don't have much luck with heat/fungus. However, that doesn't mean that it will not work for you. There are no perfect treatment, but the medicated food/Maracin 2/Tetracycline is +80% effective if implemented within the first three days of infection. You could take a chance by feeding medicated food and changing 60% of the water everyday with the hope that the fish's immune system will kick in. A healthy fish should be able to fight a lot of nasty stuffs in the water column.

Most of the baddies are gram-negative. Maracin 2 and Tetracycline work well together without any adverse side effect. You don't want to try one for a few days then find out that it was not effective. By that time, the fish may not be able to recover from the infection. Ingestion of a wide spectrum medicated food is still the best remedy if the fish is still feeding. If used over a very long period of time, then the bacteria can mutate, thus reducing the effectiveness of the medication.


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## tkos (Oct 30, 2006)

For future consideration I would suggest a quarantine tank for any new fish. That way you never have to medicate your main tank, possibly damaging plants and bacteria. For tetras and other small fish a simple 5 gallon setup will work for a couple of weeks observation/treatment.


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## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

I have a quarantine tank, they spent time in there and I caught their first bout with fin rot. This is a secondary problem, probably related to the stress of the first problem as my whole tank is fine except these two smaller males. As stated I have moved these two males to a quarantine tank... Thanks for all of your input.


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