# Calcium Deficiency?



## stevenlau (Jul 21, 2009)

Hi,

I need you to confirm that this is calcium deficiency on my Ludwigia arcuata. The tip leaves tend to bend/curl around. It also happens on all of its side shoots of the stem.









Next, I also need you to confirm if this is Fe/iron deficiency on my Heminathus micranthemoides. The tip leaves look somewhat brittle or a little transparant, after 3-4 days it will fall off its tip.









But at the same time, some of others tip look similar to calcium deficiency too, they curl like this









Lastly, what deficiency if the Pogostemon helferi tends to loose its lower leaves? Is it light deficiency? Noted that the plant doesn't shaded by others. I have difficult time growing this one and this one is the last survivor, after stunting for about 3 months, it strated to grow again the last 2 weeks but in the past few days, it dropped its lower leaves like before.









Thank you.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

The _Ludwigia arcurata_ and the _Hemianthus micranthemoides_, in picture 3 look as though they have the same deficiency. It could be calcium, boron, or iron. Calcium and boron deficiencies are very similar. The _Hemianthus_ in picture 2 looks normal, but possibly damaged a bit, mechanically. What is it that falls off? The lower leaf deficiency in the _Pogostemon_ could be potassium or magnesium or possibly due to a plant that is just unhealthy from some other kind of damage.

I think the best thing would be to (1) make sure your tank has a good calcium source such as ground limestone, ground eggshells (I grind them up with a mortar & pestle), addition of calcium chloride or, if you have hard water, a 50% or greater water change. You can also cautiously add lime in small amounts, but you have to be also adding carbon dioxide to keep the pH from getting too high. The CO2 additions convert calcium hydroxide from the lime to calcium bicarbonate and calcium carbonate. (2) Dose with Magnesium sulfate, something on the order of 8 cc of 1 molar MgSO4 per 10 gallons. (3) Dose with your iron source, whatever it is, according to instructions. (4) Dose with a micronutrient mixture that should have all the other micronutrients---boron, manganese, zinc, copper and molybdenum. That ought to fix the problem along with adequate light and CO2.


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

+1 pk on same deficency
also if i may it seems as though your lacking some co2 as well.

and in general pogostegmon heleferi is a harder plant to grow. 

good luck


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## stevenlau (Jul 21, 2009)

HeyPK said:


> What is it that falls off?


Hehe...sorry for my bad English, what I meant is HM in pic 2 that have brittle/transparent leaves like that will actually break its tip itself in a couple of days ahead.

Ok, I will try to dose :
- CaSO4 target 15ppm
- CaCl2 target 5ppm
- MgSO4 target 5ppm
- I'm dosing 5ml Flourish for micro nutrient and will add Flourish Iron for 1ml

Hoping that they will recover. Thank you very much HeyPK.

Anyway my tank water parameters :
- Tank 80x30x40cm
- Light T5NO 2x21watt
- ADA AS
- CO2, I think more than 30ppm
- pH 5.4-6.8
- kH 0-2, gH 2-4

What I'm dosing :
- KNO3 dose 21.99ppm
- KH2PO4 dose 4.02ppm + source water has 0.5ppm PO4
- K2SO4 dose 24.48ppm
- Fe with Flourish 5ml--0.54ppm
- CaSO4 dose 9.2ppm
- MgSO4 dose 1.97ppm

Apparently I'm dosing too little of Ca and Mg.


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## stevenlau (Jul 21, 2009)

doubleott05 said:


> it seems as though your lacking some co2 as well.


How the plant look like if lack of CO2? Thank you.



doubleott05 said:


> in general pogostegmon heleferi is a harder plant to grow.


How do you considered harder? Is it that they require some special care? Nutrient sensitive? Thank you.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

*Do not forget about the micronutrients!* I think that micronutrient deficiency is the most likely reason for your plants' deficiency symptoms. I see that you are already dosing calcium and magnesium, although your magnesium dose should be higher than your phosphorus dose. If you have your CO2 at around 30 ppm, that should be good enough. CO2 deficiency in most plants does not produce any visible symptoms, just slow growth.

I have not kept _Pogostemon helferi_ myself, but, with its thick stem and light green leaves, it looks like a plant that needs high light and high CO2 to grow. A low light plant has a lot of leaf area, dark green leaves and very little bulk. P. helferi is the opposite of that. it grows in shallow, sunlit streams.


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## stevenlau (Jul 21, 2009)

Ok, I will try to add more micro along with Ca and Mg. If things improve, I will report back. Thank you so much.


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## stevenlau (Jul 21, 2009)

No help folks even though I have increased the dose of CaSO4, CaCL2, MgSO4, Flourish and Flourish Iron. I have lost 6 stems of Ludwigia arcuata that melt completely and left only 2 stems. Some of the HM's leaves also looks very brittle and the self destroy at the end.

I begin to guess that it is lighting deficiency? Is there such an issue? What do plants look like if it is lighting deficiency?

Thank you.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi stevenlau,

You might try adding Boron. Paul (HeyPK) has a thread on this site about it. I believe the addition corrective action was the addition of Boric Acid which is available at drug stores. His thread has the dosing level. 

Boron deficiency is characterized by "Causes stunted growth with a distortion of younger leaves. Boron deficiency results in necrosis of meristematic tissues in the growing region similar to those caused by calcium deficiency. In plants in which boron is readily transported in the phloem, the deficiency symptoms localize in the mature tissues, similar to those of nitrogen and potassium."


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## Elohim_Meth (Nov 4, 2007)

I've lost all my L. arcuata when I switched to ADA AS. It just melted down. I didn't know what to do back then and just watched it melting.
Now I would give it another try, raising kH up to about 4-5 dKH and GH to 8-10 dGH. I've noticed some plants such as Hemianthus micrantemoides, Pogostemon helfery and apparently Ludwigia arcuata don't like very soft and acidic water (0 dKH) especially on ADA AS.


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## stevenlau (Jul 21, 2009)

Elohim_Meth said:


> I've lost all my L. arcuata when I switched to ADA AS. It just melted down. I didn't know what to do back then and just watched it melting.
> Now I would give it another try, raising kH up to about 4-5 dKH and GH to 8-10 dGH. I've noticed some plants such as Hemianthus micrantemoides, Pogostemon helfery and apparently Ludwigia arcuata don't like very soft and acidic water (0 dKH) especially on ADA AS.


Really? If that is really the issue there, then it means you have solved my mysterious problem all this time. See that the plants that I fail to grow them healthy until now are :

Ludwigia arcuata
Hemianthus micranthemoides
Pogostemon helferi
Hemianthus callitrichoides

For the first 1-3 months earlier I used RO water (0dkH and dgH), the above plants melt down completely (using ADA AS II) and for the next months up until today I have switched to 3dkH and dgH water but have notice that the kH will drop to 0 too at the second/third day after 50% WC but the melting process of the above plants are much slower than before.

I have been replaced all the things from lighting bulbs, diffuser disc to CO2 reactor, increase filter size, add extra circulation, increase CO2 rate, replaced chemical powder, increase fertz, add more fertz (Ca, Mg, Fe), add bacteria to the substrate but all that I have done are in vain. Nothing seem to work.


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## dmartin72 (Oct 9, 2004)

Any update?


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## stevenlau (Jul 21, 2009)

It was nitrate deficiency. 

The plants have stunted for too long period of time, now that I've realized it, they are recovering slooowly but I think my Hemianthus micranthemoides are having difficult time to recover.


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