# Copper Pipping



## egildernew (May 1, 2007)

I was considering copper piping as DIY filtration system. I found alot of articles claiming copper in the water was dangerous to invertebrates. Is copper piping poisonous to every kind of tank life or just live coral and certain kinds of sensitive fish?


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## uglybuckling (Jun 28, 2004)

Just inverts and certain kinds of sensitive fish. It can actually be used as a medication for other types of fish.....however once a tank has "seen" copper in the form of medication, pipes, etc. it will NEVER come out of that tank. It gets stuck in the silicone used to glue the tank together, and is time-released from it. Thus even if you took your copper-pipe-based filtration system out later, you would still not be able to keep inverts in that tank. As far as I know, freshwater inverts (RCS, for instance, or amano shrimp) are also sensitive. I think I've also heard that Hemianthus micranthmoides (baby tears, a plant) is sensitive to copper, but I could be wrong....it might be some other medication that it doesn't like.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

If the tank water never gets below 7.0 pH it isn't likely that you will get copper into the water. But, below 7.0 some copper will get into the water. In any case, it isn't worth the risk. Use PVC or other pipe instead.


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## NatalieT (Mar 20, 2007)

Copper can eventually be toxic to the fish as well as inverts, depending on what levels it reaches in the water. If you're running the water throught the pipes over and over (which a filtration system will do), then the copper level is likely to increase over time. My house has copper plumbing, and the water that comes out of my pipes is toxic to shrimp. My water also seems toxic to fish, if its been sitting in the pipes for a few hours before I fill the tank. I would recommend not using copper pipes, since other options exist.


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## styderman (Jul 1, 2007)

I know copper looks good, I was going to do the same thing. Just get CPVC its a lot easier to work with.


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

I'm pretty sure that copper is an excellent herbicide too... so not the best thing for any plants.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

When I lived in Boston, the water had 5 ppm copper from the pipes, and it would kill a snail in 30 minutes and a fish in a couple of days. I used to go to the outflow from a reservoir and collect the water for my tanks.


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## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

uglybuckling said:


> .....however once a tank has "seen" copper in the form of medication, pipes, etc. it will NEVER come out of that tank. It gets stuck in the silicone used to glue the tank together, and is time-released from it. Thus even if you took your copper-pipe-based filtration system out later, you would still not be able to keep inverts in that tank.


Not trying to be difficult (this time ), but my experience has led me to believe otherwise on copper never coming out of a tank, at least in levels that cause problems for freshwater invertebrates in a planted tank.

Here's my story: I had two side-by-side 20H's in a rack above a 55. I hate snails, so I used Snail-a-cide to remove them from the upper tanks. I had to use much more than the intended dose over a 3 month period, since the snail eggs deep in the substrate didn't get killed off with the first dose. About a year I later raised and successfully bred cherry shrimp in that tank with the same substrate and driftwood that was used during the treatment. I also only did monthly (if even that) water changes. My guess is that the plants growing in the tank consumed the copper as a trace element. If so, this might not work out as well in a marine tank.

In response to the original question, I would not use copper. Hoppy is correct in pointing out that in low pH, and in low TDS water, copper will dissolve from the piping into the water. PVC is easier to use as well for construction projects, so why not use it instead.

Copper happens to be good at killing many forms of algae as well. Somewhere I read of an interesting approach to rid a planted tank of algae. I found it both amusing and interesting:
step 1) Establish green water in the tank. This will light starve everything and kill off other algae that is attached to surfaces
step 2) Wait for the algae to be killed off but not the desirable plants
step 3) Add a large copper dose to kill off the green water
step 4) After the green water is gone, change water to remove excess copper
result) Normal plants will be weakened but not dead, algae was more sensitive to the process.

High levels of copper also happens to kill Lemna minor (lesser duckweed) before it kills most more desirable plants. When I treated my tanks for snails all the duckweed also got killed off!


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

HeyPK said:


> When I lived in Boston, the water had 5 ppm copper from the pipes, and it would kill a snail in 30 minutes and a fish in a couple of days. I used to go to the outflow from a reservoir and collect the water for my tanks.


wow... i think toxticity starts at .4ppm for inverts.
I used to live in Boston for a little bit. You know that can't be healthy for humans either.

But usually, If you let the water run for a few seconds, most of the copper from the pipes are gone. And a lot of the water primers binds heavy metals.. You don't have to worry too much about copper.


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## SKSuser (Mar 20, 2006)

With the price of copper, you could sell it as scrap and have enough cash to buy pretty much whatever filtration system you felt like.
[smilie=e: [smilie=e: [smilie=e: [smilie=e: [smilie=e: 


Can anyone tell I'm trying to build a house right now.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

There's nothing wrong with copper pipes except when they're 100 years old and deteriorated.
99% of houses have copper pipes (i'm guessing of course). I think the other option is steel pipes. ka-ching $$$$$


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## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

mistergreen said:


> There's nothing wrong with copper pipes except when they're 100 years old and deteriorated.
> 99% of houses have copper pipes (i'm guessing of course). I think the other option is steel pipes. ka-ching $$$$$


I think you need to add some conditions to that statement 

Copper pipe will work fine if you are just adding dechlor and raising fish.

Copper pipes are generally safe for city water since:
* a small amount of copper is not toxic to people, it's actually good for us in small amounts
* the city manages water conditions to keep the pH high enough to avoid rapidly dissolving pipes
* pipe failures start out as tiny pin holes, not major breaks. I have personal experience in a case there this developed after only 20 years of use.

Copper pipes are not optimal for routing treated aquarium water:
* Aquarists frequently modify water into something that can more rapidly dissolve the pipe. This is especially true for RO systems.
* Aquarists may raise species that are much more sensitive to copper than humans are (i.e. shrimp)

It would be quite sad if someone decided to try shrimp, or a fancy saltwater reef tank after installing a fancy copper pipe water distribution system to their aquariums.


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## styderman (Jul 1, 2007)

Is it me or do threads just reappear constantly throughout this forum?


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

The water here is very soft and in our house with copper pipes we have an ongoing battle with a blue green film forming on the tub and faucet upstairs from the copper leaching into the water. In my in laws house evidently due to soft water, after only 12 years the pipes all sprang leaks and they had to completely replumb their house with plastic pipes. Anyway the point is that if you have a tank with soft acidic water like our tap water is, copper will definitely leach into the tank if the water is being routed through copper pipes continuously or if it is sitting in copper pipes for any length of time.


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