# So its not Ca defiency...now what???



## ranmasatome (Aug 5, 2005)

Hello guys,

New to the forum but not new to plants i guess... have been in the snoops a bit at this forum now and i sure would appreciate any help i can get regarding this..

So after 5 weeks of trying the new Seachem equi. regime i made for myself to see if my curled leaves were the cause of a Ca deficiency...i finally believe that it is NOT.... MY leaves are STILL Curled!!!! ergh!!! for the past 5 weeks i have been implementing seachem equi into the equation and dosing 1 teaspoon every week during water change.. surprisingly this did not affect my tanks condition... the Kh still stayed around 2 and those darned leaves are still curled...

Most of my plants are doing well (its a long list) except for ANY rotalas or ANY ludwigia that i put into this tank all end up with curled and mangled leaves!!! ALL other plants are okay.... WHY is this?? am i missing somthing that only these plants need?? i cant figure it out and am at my wits end... if nothing works i'll probably try a new fert reigme like seachem flourish and trace... besides the one i'm using which is Lushgrow Aqua and Lushgrow micro (local brands i think) with KNO3 and Po4 doses is kinda getting old on me.

Below is a list of the "recent" regime that didnt work to uncurl leaves for my 50gal (3feet) tank running at 182watts (i recently just upgraded to 220watts)... Any advise would be VERY much appreciated..

Sunday : waterchange + dose 1.5ppm of Po4 + KNo3 (12ppm No3 - 7.8ppm K)
monday : 16 drops of LGM
Tuesday : 10ml of LGA
WEdnesday: same as monday
thurs : Same as tuesday
Fri : monday thingy again
Sat : tuesday thing again..

Element Weekly ppm Total
N 1.69139
NO3 7.49045 (therefore total No3 would be 19.5ppm)
K 12.18322 (And total k would be 19.9ppm)
S 3.92678
Mg 0.69314
Fe EDTA 0.66357
Mn 0.21561
B 0.08005
Zn 0.02943
Cu 0.00925
Mo 0.00969

Thanks!

So...what should i do?? try switching over to seachem and see what happens for another 5 weeks?


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Seachem Equilibrium contains 23% potassium and 8% calcium and 2.4% magnesium. That is not very much calcium. In order to rule out calcium deficiency, you should get your calcium up to around 100 ppm. Calcium is not like some nutrients, such as nitrate or potassium or phosphprus, where the plants can pull down the levels to unmeasurable before they get deficient.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

What is your tap water like? Have you ever called your water company or tested it?

I think that the issue you're having probably doesn't have a whole lot to do with calcium.

Let's talk about your nutrient regimen. Saying that you add a few drops of this or that doesn't really say much. I always aim for _levels_ of nutrients and don't go by the dose. There are just way too many variables involved to make going by how many teaspoons of something you're adding. Macro nutrients like nitrate and phosphate can be monitored with good test kits. General micro nutrient supplements and iron are a good thing to do 'by eye'. Just add a little more and a little more until things look as they should.

I'd be willing to bet that if you fixed that issue, the rest of it will fall into place. I think it's a common thing to think that one has some kind of unusual nutrient deficiency when it's really not. Do what you need to do, and the rest will usually fall into place.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you should give any changes some time to work and don't panic and go a completely different direction if things don't turn around right away. Easy does it.


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## ranmasatome (Aug 5, 2005)

thanks HPK..
so what does that mean? that everyons tank has to have a REAlly high level of calcium?? i'm sure thats not the case right? besides for me to dose 100ppm of calcium with seachem equi would introduce too much K and Mg to my tank... the question here isnt what i didnt do right....but more of what i should be doing... but i understand the part you said about calcium being different.. that was helpful... is the advise for me to continue this regime with 100ppm of calcium??


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## ranmasatome (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi Cavan.
Thanks for the reply..
Actually yes...i've been to the web site to check the water and have worked accordin to that..

As for my dosing..i actually dont go by drops and capfuls... and know exactly what you mean by levels...that is why i provided the table chart in my initial post for the total level reached that week for all nutrients dosed. i'm quite sure the nutrients are okay..

initially i thought it was calcium since i dont dose it at all..but heard that the water here already has some in it and just water changes alone weekly would provide enough for it... i decided to use seachem equi still on top of that just because i wanted to make sure..turns out its not the case..

Also...is 5 weeks too short of a period to see a response in plants?? 
the funny thing is that only the ludwigias and rotalas are affected...EVERYTHING else is okay and growing like mad!


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Get some lime or finely ground up limestone or some calcium chloride. With the lime you have to add cautiously in small amounts and watch the pH. The others can be added with less caution. The ground limestone takes a while to dissolve. 

In another thread on this forum bigfoot said his Vallisneria was showing deficiency symptoms at 50 PPM Calcium. I was also getting deficiency symptoms in Vallisneria, but, unfortunately, I didn't measure the calcium level. After I added some lime, the Vallisneria recovered and I got a calcium value of 125 ppm (LaMotte kit).


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

> As for my dosing..i actually dont go by drops and capfuls... and know exactly what you mean by levels...that is why i provided the table chart in my initial post for the total level reached that week for all nutrients dosed. i'm quite sure the nutrients are okay..


I'm not. When I say levels, I mean what you might see if you tested at any given time. I dose small amounts every day, so if I still tested very much, I'd know that the nitrate level, for example, would probably be at around 10ppm. I'm really not sure what to make of the information you've given. The level reached for the week means what?

You have reliable test kits? You've tested recently?

The fact that your Ludwigias and Rotalas are affected leads me to belive that you're having a nutrient issue.

Lastly, would you please capitalize the first words of all your sentences?


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## ranmasatome (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi HPK,
Thanks...i'll try it out slowly...adding lime or limestone.. as of now i've added one bag of dead corals into the filter to increase calcium in the water.. 

Hi Cavan,
I dont do testing (besides kh and ph)... perhaps thats the problem.. i go using EI and so for me testing is at a minimum. I dose daily as well, but have a target to reach... Say for example i want to hit 30 ppm of No3 for 6days before the water change on the 7th day.. then daily, i would dose 5ppm of no3. I dont know if this could be a problem but i know of alot of people that do it this way and have no problems.. I know it is a defeciency problem..thats why i am asking...so what do you suggest? That i buy more test kits? I didnt mean that it was perfet when i said the nutrients were okay..but that at least i'm quite sure that for the entire week i've dosed the amount that is supposedly reccomended by EI... so you what are you saying exactly?? That i buy mroe test kits and test for everything daily?

Also i'm sorry for not capitalising the first word in every sentence previously, i'm just used to typing this way when i'm typing fast.. but at least i've made the effort to make it easier for you this time round..


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

I am surprised that you do KH only and not also GH. I thought that kits that did KH also did GH. I am familiar with an inexpensive Tetra kit that does both and has not changed in 50 years. A KH test just measures alkalinity---how much acid it takes to lower the pH down to four point something. GH measures hardness due to calcium and magnesium. It doesn't distinguish between the two, but you can usually assume that calcium is roughly half of what contributes to GH if your GH comes from dissolved limestone, clam shells, etc. You can have water with a high KH and a very low or nonexistent GH if the water contains only sodium bicarbonate. In fact, that describes my tap water, which has a KH of 9 and a GH of 0, according to my little Tetra kit.


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

I'd bet your NO3 is too low.
You can do the gH terst and if it's 50ppm or 3 degrees, you can rule out Ca.

Maintaining good CO2 is a huge issue, you added more light, so that's likely the issue or NO3.
You can also add more traces/PO4.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Thank you Tom. You took the words right out of my mouth.


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