# LED question - niko



## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

niko

I find myself looking for lighting options for a small emersed bowl I have and I'm not seeing a lot of conventional options for any sort of reasonable price. I saw your recommendation for LED flood lights. I may buy one and see what all the LED craze is about, but I have two questions.

Ebay has a lot of cheap flood lights for sale, but none mention the kelvin rating, they instead use words like "cool white," "warm daylight," I assume I want the warm daylight one for an appealing color?

Also, I notice that they are 120v AC or 12v DC. I assume I can just buy the 120v AC and simply connect a plug and cord from the hardware store? Do I need a special ballast or is it plug and play once I get it attached to a plug?

Other cheap options for lighting a small plant bowl (its roughly 8 inches across and 12 inches deep)?

What wattage do I need for this small setup?


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## JeffyFunk (Apr 6, 2006)

Zapins said:


> Ebay has a lot of cheap flood lights for sale, but none mention the kelvin rating, they instead use words like "cool white," "warm daylight," I assume I want the warm daylight one for an appealing color?


I'm not Niko (i'm WAYYY less sarcastic...), but have you tried going to Home Depot and looking at their LED Light bulb selection? They have the Cree & Phillips LED light bulbs and often times you can find several different 'color' choices like 'cool white', 'warm daylight', etc there... 5000K was the highest they had (in Phillips brand) and that one has a nice bright white light on the cool side. I have one of those flood lights on my aquarium and like the way it looks (if anything, it's too much light considering it's replacing a T8 hood...)

I tried the Cree LED lights, but i don't like the light they produce. They have the 'warm' ones which are lower kelvin and too yellow to my eyes and the 'cool / daylight' one which is too blue to my eyes (i was always a big fan of the Reveal light bulbs or, even better, the really expensive Neodynium bulbs before that). That said, the blue one might make a good light bulb for an aquarium. (I only saw a flood light in the 'warm' one, though...)


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Zapins,

I do not know. And I openly say it. As you know - planted tank gurus will tell you exactly the opposite.

I don't know the first thing about wiring an LED. Everybody else does and that's why they have amazing tanks to prove it.

That being said I am not sure you need any kind of special light for Anubias. The thing can make new leaves wrapped in a black plastic bag and placed in a COVERED trash can. And if what I see on the gravel is Marsilea you don't have to worry about any light. It will make extremely small and extremely dark green leaves - very beautiful.

The question I think really is - what is the light color that will appeal to your eye. Also the thing needs to look nice (you don't want some kind of DIY contraption hanging over that nice looking jar OR a parking lot looking LED flood light). I personally would consider the ambient light (goes a VERY long way to grow plants if you are patient) + an LED lamp from IKEA or whatever that looks elegant.









If you still want the ugly LED flood light the 10 watt is very small (a big larger than a pack of cigarettes). And I've seen it being used in a marine refugium with fine results (suspended about 8 inches above the algae). Get the 6000-6500K. I got a 10K and the light is way too white to be used by itself and looking good.

Also in the future don't get miffed about mold or BGA in that jar. As I have said a million times before - treat BGA with erythromycin and fill the entire thing with water and drain it every few days to drown and get rid of fungus. No antifungal chemicals, works beautifully.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Spiral CFL in a stylish Ikea desk lamp--cheap and good!


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## Kerry (Sep 5, 2013)

I have done a lot of 'window shopping' on the ebay leds and most vendors will list the Kelvin ratings...you just have to dig a bit for it. Look for the specification chart. That should list the Kelvin/K/color temp value. Don't just buy based on the visual color appeal when buying for plant growth as you won't know what K level the lamp is and you may end up wasting money on a lamp with little usable value for plant growth and health. I've noticed that the Warm/Neutral/Cool vidual ratings can vary between manufacturers...sometime by a lot, which is why you want to find the actual K rating. Look for K rating between 5000-7000Kelvin for best plant growth.


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## ObiQuiet (Oct 9, 2009)

Michael said:


> Spiral CFL in a stylish Ikea desk lamp--cheap and good!


That's what I have. Added bonus, they are arranged from left to right across the tank. That lets me simulate the low angle of the sun early/late in the day using timers to stage the on/off times, just for some visual variety.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

I bought a 10 watt floodlight with 6000-6500 K bulb for $11 total shipped.

I think all I need to do is just attach a plug and it will work. We'll see how well it does when it comes on Monday.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Other than the plug it is ready to go. It doesn't get hot, it has a brace to hang/put screws. 

You may love it.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

I was just thinking that...

If it works nicely I'll 100% be buying more for my 2.5 gal army of tanks. 

I am into breeding a lot of rare fish at the moment and having a nice little $11 light that can grow plants would be great.

I may get a stronger light for my three green water tanks, but I'll wait before I count my chickens.


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## Tattooedfool83 (Jul 7, 2013)

What about the 3w deep blue solar flare?








Just so everyone knows the light is small for the tank, I understand that. It's more so the axolotl in there has a not of light but the floaters on there have doubled even with the little amount of light and the java fern does well. Only downside with this light is no on/off switch but for $12 it rocks


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

The 10w LED floodlight arrived today. Total cost was $11 for the light, but then I had to go to home depot and buy 12 feet of lamp wire ($4.30) and a plug ($1.30) and then to make it look nice some AMP butt splices for 22-18 gauge wire ($2) and then some Raychem Heat-Shrink tubing ($2) to cover up the splice. So the total cost is about $20.

The brightness of the light in person isn't mind blowing, but I think it could work for a smaller tank like a 2.5g. For a deeper tank like a 90g tank I think 4 or 6 of the 50 watt fixtures would work ok. The 50 watt fixtures cost $43 each though.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

So what do you think about LEDs now? How many watts of electricity will they save compared to a T5HO fluorescent rig?

Line up 5 of these 10W LEDs and make a 50 watt fixture. Put these 50W LEDs over a standard 55 gal. tank. The light will be less than a T5HO with a good reflector. It would work if the tank is 12" deep at most. That's what I've been harping about for some time now but people just love LEDs because the retailers tell them what to think.

For me, to light well a 2 ft tall, 6 ft. long tank I need 8 x 100 watt flood LEDs. That's if I want to grow anything I want on the bottom but still *not have very high PAR*. Six 100W LEDs are not going to have a good coverage unless I raise them up way high and have low PAR as a result. What did I just say - 800 watts? Yes I did. And about $800. Nice. But people continue believing in power savings, low heat, and years of service. Pipe dreams, sorry.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Don't get me wrong, I 100% agree with you that for the most part this LED craze isn't based on facts, its all a marketing campaign. There do seem to be uses for LEDs, like for my weirdly shaped planted tub, and for those who want shimmer effects and dim control but I have to agree with you that most people - especially new people to the hobby - just buy them because they are being promoted a lot on TV and in the news.

I've got to say though, that 10-30w LED floodlights like the one I have might be a very good option for small tanks in the 2.5-10 g range, or for small emersed tub setups. Better than CFL spiral bulbs at any rate.


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## aleph (Apr 27, 2006)

Zapins, I agree.

I switched to LED purely for the dimmable sunrise/sunset effect. But it was pricey.

I'm curious about the ecoxotics lights? If anyone has tried them.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

I've been trying to get feedback on the ecoxotic lights for a while but have had no success. My LFS is into them big time. I have been thinking about using one of the panorama lights in my 10g metaframe tank but I cant find anyone using one in a planted tank.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

niko said:


> Line up 5 of these 10W LEDs and make a 50 watt fixture. Put these 50W LEDs over a standard 55 gal. tank. The light will be less than a T5HO with a good reflector.


You can build your own fixture for relatively little. I paid less for my LED fixture than the T5 fixture before it. Why on earth would you buy a bunch of flood lights? That's hardly a good example.



niko said:


> It would work if the tank is 12" deep at most.


If I chose to turn my light up all the way, I can get close to 200 PAR at substrate. Without lenses. With them, it would be more. And if I think one particular plant needs more light, I can even put a lens over just that plant. Of course, that has a lot to do with me having a real fixture that I took the time to build properly.



niko said:


> That's what I've been harping about for some time now


Doesn't make it true. Why you don't you go back to talking about filtration? You're right on that one.



niko said:


> but people just love LEDs because the retailers tell them what to think.


So it's impossible that they might actually have some advantages? That some of us are not idiots?



niko said:


> For me, to light well a 2 ft tall, 6 ft. long tank I need 8 x 100 watt flood LEDs. That's if I want to grow anything I want on the bottom but still *not have very high PAR*.


See above. You could make a fixture to light a six footer that you could dim to whatever you want for maybe $500. I built mine for around $300 and have not had to replace any bulbs. Light is pretty much exactly the same intensity it was a year ago. For sure, there are people who jump into LEDs who end up with fixture that are too powerful, not dimable, overpriced, etc. But you can't rightly hate on the whole technology because of those cases. It's just like anything else; if you do your homework, you can get a lot for your money.



niko said:


> But people continue believing in power savings, low heat, and years of service. Pipe dreams, sorry.


I can touch the heat sinks the LEDs are mounted on and they are merely warm. My tank definitely stays cooler, and I have not lost any light intensity over the last year.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

The thing that has always got me with DIY LEDs is I am unsure how to power them. I suppose I could figure it out if I put in a lot of research but a dedicated DIY thread/tutorial would really help. I would probably have gone that way if the info was easily available.


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## aleph (Apr 27, 2006)

I've heard from people that have been very happy with these folks: http://www.buildmyled.com/freshwater/

They custom build units also.

Nice info on this page: http://www.bmlcustom.com/about-par/
And here: http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/how-to-builds/

One person's custom build: http://www.instructables.com/id/A-Complete-Idiots-Guide-to-Make-LED-Light-Unit/


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## Apprentice (Sep 17, 2008)

Well Niko let's see. You pick the cheapest Led manufactures in China and purchased on ebay for a comparison to a high quality T5HO fixture. This is what I would call cherry picking or finding facts to fit your fiction.

So lets compare a Buildmyled.com fixture for a 55 gallon (48x13x20) aquarium. 
48" 64 watts High light (80 Par and up) with dimmer. Cost $284.00
I can choose from a variety of pre-configured color temps. 3200K, 5000K, 6000K, 6300K, 7000K, 10000K, 13000K or if I don't like those I can customize my own for the same price. 50,000 predicted lamp life based on driven at full capacity. They under drive their leds ( i.e. expect longer life). 40% less power then a comparable 108 watt T5. Dim-able to any PAR level I want. Consistent light levels. No bulb replacement. Really, all hype and no advantages.

I can't apparently say this enough. There are a hand full of quality led manufactures for pre-built or DIY fixtures. These normally come in 1watt to 3 watt output range. Here is the short list.
Cree, Bridgelux, Phillips/Luxeon, Lumileds, Everlight, and Semileds .

Zappins as for powering led bulbs two thing are required. A D.C. power source and a constant current driver. The DC power source can be a standard AC to DC power source, like a laptop power supply and a constant current drive such a a buckpuck dim-able driver. They also make all in one units like the Meanwell driver which has both DC power supply and driver in one unit. Some sites even have solder-less kits if you don't think you can or don't want to hassle with soldering. Here are a few sites to check out for pricing and even instructions on how to wire and put together.

http://www.rapidled.com/
http://www.ledsupply.com/

One Way to Design a Planted Tank LED Light by Hoppy
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=168999

If you do decide down the road to DIY a led fixture and have any questions just PM me and I'll be glad to help.

Regards, Rob


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