# Whats the point of Quarantine?



## Chamilitary (May 25, 2008)

I understand if you have alot of fishes and its an established aquarium but doesn't it stress sensitive fish even more by moving them around over and over again?

Are the water in the quarantine tanks supposed to be from the main tank's water.

I don't really get it.


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## The old man (Apr 12, 2008)

In case they come down with some disease it is easier to treat them in a tank with only a sponge filter if you using charcoal in main tank. Personally, I just use the drip method to acclimate them to the new tank. Only had some Rams that ended up with ich when added, but treated the whole tank and got rid of it without losing any fish.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Let's say you've got an aquarium with fish already in it. And you go out and buy some more fish from Fancy Freddie's Fish Fare. You get home and through them in your quarantine tank for a week so that you can keep an eye on them for signs of disease. If they do develop the disease, you can treat them in the quarantine tank without your other fish being exposed to the disease or to the chemicals used to treat it. It's also cheaper to treat a small 10 gal quarantine than it is to treat a larger aquarium (if you have a lrager one).


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## fish dork (Dec 5, 2007)

Exactly as Davemonkey said... and remember you can also lower the water level to make dosing of medicines in your quarantine even easier on your wallet.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

If you only have a single 10 or 20g aquarium with only a few inexpensive fish, it's probably not worth it to do a quarantine.

If you have a 500g tank full of thousands of dollars worth of rare fish, you'd be out of your mind to not quarantine new arrivals.


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## praxis5624 (Apr 22, 2006)

I could not have said it any better Davemonkey. This topic should raise another topic: Those who disagree in quarantining must have money at hand to waste. I love the fish that I keep: LF White Clouds and Endler's Livebearers and on occassion when I feel it's necessary to add fresh genes to my stock, the acquired stock is quarantined and introduced after a period of time. Most fish in pet stores are mostly stressed and thier diet needs are not really address with a regular staple diet. During quarantining, I feed baby brine and other treats to increase their metabolism which in turn will ultimately strengthen the immunity as well. I disagree with introducing disease to my established aquarium ( possibly ) and risk losing fish that I drove around town to several locations to buy, time and money.


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## praxis5624 (Apr 22, 2006)

Another point in hand, the live plants you could lose due to introduction of medication which all know is deadly to most plants.


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## Chamilitary (May 25, 2008)

Makes sense, but quarantining the fish also stresses it out, and moving them again after quarantining stresses them out again right?

So while they are moved from the Quarantine tank to t he main tank, they could potentially catch another disease because of the extra stress.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Moving them across your house to the same water they've been kept in for the last month is totally different from bringing them home from the store. 
When you bring them home from the store, they've just been shipped from who knows how many different handlers in a short period of time, they've been exposed to many different water parameters, including bag water, and have been tossed around in shipping several times, so they are going to be stressed and more vulnerable to picking up different things that they could normally fight off.
I always quarantine for about a month, so they've had plenty of time to settle in and by the time you move them to the main tank it's a piece of cake. I just toss them in a convalescent container to move them from one tank to the other, so they hardly notice.


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## Chamilitary (May 25, 2008)

But a barebottom quarantine tank and my planted tank with driftwood and stuff could potentially have differnt parameters?

should I use the main tank water in the quarantine tank?


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## lauraleellbp (Jan 31, 2008)

Ideally, the QT tank at first should match the parameters of the water the fish are coming from- so if you're buying them from an LFS, the QT tank should match the parameters at the LFS.

I always QT for at least 2 weeks, and then during the final week start acclimating the fish to my main tank by doing water changes and replacing the water in the QT tank with water from the destination tank.

The more patient you're willing to be, the better off your fish will be and less losses you'll experience when acclimating new fish.


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## Six (May 29, 2006)

If you're losing fish or worried about losing fish due to acclimation- it is being done incorrectly. If there's worry about moving fish form tank to tank, there's likely more husbandry issues than that.


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## The old man (Apr 12, 2008)

ok, I was a bit quick with my answer, but thought he was talking about a new tank. First of all you should only add a few fish to begin with a new tank planted or not. Then as you add fish you probably should quarantine any other additions especially if you have a lot of expensive fish in the tank already. Also, it depends a lot I think where you get the new fish. My lfs will not sell fish for about a week until he accounts for shipping stress loss, signs of disease, etc.
Petsmart or Petco a completely different story. Also, certain fish (Rams) are more suseptible to ich, etc. and should have been quarantined as I got them from a not very reliable dealer at the time. And finally a fish you need right away for a specific purpose (eating BBA) if you go to a reliable dealer and can check his stock I would not quarantine, but just use the drip method to acclimate. If I was setting up a quarantine tank I would set it up using the water from the main tank, but not sure if that is very important. Just keep charcoal out of your quarantine tank.


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## lauraleellbp (Jan 31, 2008)

Why do you keep activated carbon out of your QT?

IMHO you should QT regardless of the source.


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## grim (Mar 13, 2008)

you keep charcoal out of the qt in case you have to medicate the charcoal removes the chemicals


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

grim said:


> you keep charcoal out of the qt in case you have to medicate the charcoal removes the chemicals


I'm neither for or against charcoal in a q-tank, but if you do find you need to treat the tank, it's as simple as removing the carbon/charcoal before you start treating.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

BryceM said:


> If you only have a single 10 or 20g aquarium with only a few inexpensive fish, it's probably not worth it to do a quarantine.
> 
> If you have a 500g tank full of thousands of dollars worth of rare fish, you'd be out of your mind to not quarantine new arrivals.


Could not be said better.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Main Entry: 1quar·an·tine 
Pronunciation: \ˈkwȯr-ən-ˌtēn, ˈkwär-\ 
Function: noun 
Etymology: partly modification of French quarantaine, from Old French, from quarante forty, from Latin quadraginta, from quadra- (akin to quattuor four) + -ginta (akin to viginti twenty); partly modification of Italian quarantena quarantine of a ship, from quaranta forty, from Latin quadraginta — more at four, vigesimal 
Date: 1609 
1: a period of 40 days
2 a: a term during which a ship arriving in port and suspected of carrying contagious disease is held in isolation from the shore b: a regulation placing a ship in quarantine c: a place where a ship is detained during quarantine
3 a: a restraint upon the activities or communication of persons or the transport of goods designed to prevent the spread of disease or pests b: a place in which those under quarantine are kept
4: a state of enforced isolation


Just in case anyone wanted to know how long they should quarantine for. 
This is not graved in stone, but a yardstick to compare to. 
Sometimes the 'old-timers' knew what they were talking about. 

This definition is from Merriam-Webster's Online. Which makes spellcheck look like.... you know.


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## Complexity (Aug 11, 2008)

I use quarantine tanks (Q/T) for all my new fish. It's not just the money, but I get attached to my fish. I know their particular personalities and quirks, and I don't want to lose them.

Regardless of how wonderful the LFS may be, unless they are breeding the fish themselves, they have no way of knowing the condition of the fish coming in. Many of these fish have been breed in massive numbers overseas where quantity is more important that quality. Fish diseases can be rampant in these places.

Then the fish goes through the stress of shipping and the store's different water parameters. Unless the store is going to do their own Q/T for 2-4 weeks (too costly). then what you are buying is not their fish, but the fish they received from their importer. Some stores make matters worse, no doubt. But no store can be certain all the fish are healthy when they just arrived in a box from overseas.

I quarantine my new fish because I do not want to introduce an illness into my main tank. I also think it's good for the new fish to have their own peaceful tank before they're thrown into my main tank with various schools of fish, dwarf cichlids and shrimp. Many of the new fish have never been mixed in with other fish, that has to be stressful to them. By allowing them their own Q/T where I can observe them very closely, ensure they are eating well, and if the fish do turn out to have a disease, it is so much easier to treat them in a Q/T than in the main tank. It's much easier to treat just one species of fish in a Q/T than to find meds that work for all kinds of fish, inverts and plants.

I do not use water from my main tank. I always use very fresh and clean water (conditioned tap water). I run the tank at least a day before adding the new fish. Depending on the particular fish, I may add caves, live plants (great for new shrimp), silk plants (unharmed by meds), floating plants or whatever matches the fish's preferred environment. I then watch the for 2-4 weeks. I do frequently water changes to keep the Q/T very clean, and I watch the ammonia closely.

After the fish have successfully completed their time in the Q/T, they are accustomed to me, used to the food I feed, acclimated to my water, and much stronger and less stressed than they were when I bought them. So moving them into my main tank is one more step for the fish, but it's not anywhere near as stressful as what they go through when you buy them. That little bit of stress usually doesn't harm healthy fish.

The day you experience or even read someone else's experience of having a tank full of fish they love, only to lose them all, one by one, after introducing a sick fish that hadn't been quarantined, you'll be glad you use a Q/T. It's heartbreaking what these people go through. I don't want to experience that with my tanks. So I use a Q/T for all new fish.


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## Mud Pie Mama (Jul 30, 2006)

Very well spoken, Vicki. I do have a horror story involving sick fish just as you've mentioned. A search w/ quarantine, I'm sure will bring it up.

I'll also add that if you put new fish into a well planted tank. It can be hard to keep an eye on them and observe them closely, just because there are so many hiding places w/ all the foliage, driftwood, rocks, etc.

It can be even harder to try to net them out if something comes up and you want to try treating just a few fish and not your whole tank. Some fish are so fast and expert at evasive maneuvering, that I've had to remove all my plants in order to net them out (Diamond Tetras for one.)


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## Chamilitary (May 25, 2008)

Thank you, the only reason why i am askin is because I have a 100 Gallon tank set up. I told my lfs to ship me 100 or more rummy nose tetras, that way, I can have a better deal. The problem is, how am i going to quarantine 100 fish? My tank is newly set up. I do have a couple of spare tanks..? Should i ask for extra fishes since the mortality rate is higher since A. I am buying so many fish B. The fish are newly shipped.

Or should i wait a week for the weak ones to be weaned out?


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## joycould (Mar 13, 2007)

If you don't have any other fish in there then it should be ok. If the rummy nose tetras are carrying a parasite that is hard to get rid of like the camallanus worms then you would have to do a total tear down and recycle.


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## Chamilitary (May 25, 2008)

/bump for more suggestions


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

If your tank is newly set up I'd be a little concerned at adding that many fish in one go, not from a quarantine point of view but from a filter maturity aspect. An immature filter is often much slower to adapt to changes in bioload than a well established one. You will need to monitor ammonia and nitrite carefully so you don't lose fish.

As to Quarantining and losses, if you're picking the fish up straight away and have pre-ordered them from the shop and you're getting them a little cheaper then you may have to accept that a few might not make it. That's part of the reason you'll get a better deal on them! I'd get them into your main tank straight away and monitor them, and the water, carefully.

Are there any other fish currently in the tank? If you do have some fish in there already then you could always remove them to a separate tank and quarantine them from the new fish. Once you're happy the new fish don't have anything contagious you can then re-introduce the current fish to the main tank.


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## Mud Pie Mama (Jul 30, 2006)

In my experience, rummy nose tetra are one of the most sensitive fish to be dumping - en masse - into an immature tank. They do much better in a tank that is well established. 

Do you know the source of the rummies? Are they wild caught - farm raised? In either case I'd be more concerned to QT than if the fish are hobbyist, tank-raised. (Although I'm sure that when you're talking 100, these are the former.) 

If your 100g is well planted, well, it's 50/50. Good, in the sense that it will help w/ stability and controlling any ammonia spikes from the new bio-load. However, BAD, if the fish do not acclimate well, and start dropping like flies. It could be a hard ordeal to try to seek out and remove the dead fish in a big tank. One or two dead fish may not cause too much damage. But how will you know if 5, 6, or 7 dead ones are stuck among the plants and driftwood? I know I couldn't accurately do a head count on 100 quickly moving fish. (If your 100g is rather bare, then it is easier to net fish, so it wouldn't matter.) 

Personally, I'd really set up a spare tank. Even do daily H2O changes until you know the rummies have handled the trip well, are disease free, and adjusted to your water parameters before putting them into a large display tank. If the rummies start showing signs of something that is easily treatable (IE., ick); I'd much rather medicate 20g than 100g. Any money you've saved could quickly be off set purchasing med for 100g.


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## Six (May 29, 2006)

IMO QT the rummies in several different tanks. It's going to be no fun, but well... thats what happens when you buy mass qty.


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## Chamilitary (May 25, 2008)

The tank will be my first planted tank, it will be planted well from the beginning. 

ed - I might not have to pick them up right away, but if i leave them there for too long, customers will start to pick out a few of the rummies, in other words, they can be chased everyday before I can buy them. Maybe i can ask them to "reserve" them for me. To cycle them, I wanted to put the HOB from my 55 Gallon tank, although the tank seems pretty healthy, its been neglected for too long. I have no idea how healthy the tank REALLY is. 

Mudpie Mama - I have no idea where the rummies are from. You are right about the dead fish, this is why I don't know what to do. I can set up a spare 20 gallon tank, but how am i going to fit 100 fish in there?

If the fish are sick, I will ask for a refund.


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## Complexity (Aug 11, 2008)

Take a good look at what the fish tanks look like in the stores. They cram lots of fish into a tank. I'm not saying that's good for the fish, but it does demonstrate that there are times in which fish can be in close quarters. Trust me, the breeder didn't follow the 1" per gallon rule. The fish you're getting have been crammed in tanks all their young lives unless they're wild caught. And even then, once caught, they were crammed into close quarters.

Go get yourself a Q/T tank. In fact, get more than one. Get five. How much do five 10g cheap setups cost? You don't need a stand for them, the floor works just fine (just a bit hard to see the fish, but it still works). So you need... Five 10g tanks and five inexpensive filters to keep the oxygen and water stirred up. You now have five Q/T tanks! Want a lid? No problem. Get something cheap to cover the top. Plywood works. Light? Fish in Q/T can do without a light blasting down on them. Get one light that you can move to all five tanks for observation.

So let's see... with 5 Q/T tanks for 100 fish, that's about 20 fish per tank. _Very_ doable!

When the tanks aren't needed, just store them in the garage, attic, basement, anywhere. They're a bit bulky, but it's not as if they take up the entire house. Store each Q/T with its filter in a baggie so when you grab a tank, you'll have everything you need inside of it.

The biggest advantage to having the Q/T tanks on hand like this is you will be ready for the fish that you see swimming around your main tank with ich on Sunday night just as the stores all close and you have to work the next day so there's no time to run out and buy a tank to get that fish out of your main tank! Now what? Get the fish and euthanize it? Let it spread disease to all the other fish? Hope it doesn't die during the night, allowing the other fish to eat its remains, only to spread the disease so much further?

It is so nice to spot a sick fish, quickly set up a 10g with a filter, fill it with conditioned water, and then move the fish over. Only takes a few minutes and can save a lot of time, money and heartache in the long run. It's also wonderful to come home with three bags of fish and have three Q/T tanks to put them all in. Personally, I have a total of 10 tanks with only 3-4 intended for long term use. The rest are holding fish and plants. Two are being used as H/T, one is currently in use as a Q/T, and the rest just hold plants until I use them. When I move my 75g tank from my apartment to my house, I will use all of those extra tanks to house the fish while the tank is moved and set up. The fish will do fine for a day or two. No worries about rushing to get the tank moved and setup. I can take my time to do the job right. That's because I have so many tanks available. Even 5g tanks work well for Q/T.

You can even use plastic bins for Q/T. Not as easy to watch the fish as glass, but you can see them from above and know if they're swimming around or hovering in the corner upside down. Add an airstone, and you have a Q/T.

Just remember to watch the ammonia very closely and do very frequent (i.e. daily) water changes.

Q/T tanks don't have to be fancy. They just have to get the job done. This is when the K.I.S.S. principle works well.


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## Chamilitary (May 25, 2008)

Complexity, I actually have 2 10 Gallon tanks along with one 20 Gallon tank unused. I only have 2 hoods, 2 filters and 2 heaters though. 

Do you think I can get away with just 3 tanks? I can also use 2 of my 15 gallon rubbermaid bins if needed. 

What you suggested was actually a very good idea, what I will do is probably use the 2 HOB filter cartridge on my 55 G and put each cartridge on each of the 2 smaller HOB (they fit) Are the tanks instantly cycled that way?

How long would you advice me to quarantine? If it is around 4 weeks I can also use this time to cycle my main tank, correct?


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## Complexity (Aug 11, 2008)

100 fish in a total of 40g of water should be fine. I can see the gears moving in your brain. I think you have the right idea now.

Do you really need a heater at this time of year?

You definitely must have either a filter or at least aeration for each tank (or even plastic bin). A filter is best, of course. I would not count on any of these tanks cycling. If they do, great. But it's a little harder since they should be bare bottom tanks with only cheap filtration. This is why I say do daily water changes. You can keep ammonia lock on hand just in case you get a spike, but can't do a water change due to scheduling.

The amount of time I quarantine depends on the kind of fish, where I got it, etc. But, usually, I don't go below 2 weeks and prefer to go 4 weeks. I have made exceptions. For example, my ottos really needed to be in a tank with algae. There's only so much you can do to fatten up an otto using algae wafers and zucchini. So I only did 1 week Q/T. But they were also going into my smaller tank with only a few fish that I care about so the risk wasn't as great. Cardinal Tetras, which are frequently wild caught, get a full 4 week Q/T — no exceptions. If a fish has shown any signs of illness, I will Q/T for even longer. I have one Cardinal Tetra that developed a white spot attached to it. It wasn't ich, and no one could identify it. So it went straight into a Q/T. After a few weeks, the spot fell off. Another week passed, and it was still doing well with no spots. At that point, I moved it to a completely different tank for further observation. Another week has passed with good health so it'll go back into the main tank in a week or so. In all, the tetra has been in Q/T for 5-6 weeks.

I think you just have to use your judgment on how long to keep a fish in Q/T. A lot depends on the circumstances at hand, the amount of risk involved and your own personal level of paranoia. :smile: Since you have a goal of cycling your large tank, it sounds like 4 weeks will work well for you.


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## Complexity (Aug 11, 2008)

As it turns out, I have a perfect example of why you quarantine.

I ordered new fish that came from a trusted source which does his own quarantine for 3 weeks before shipping the fish.

When the fish arrived, I immediately opened the bag, added prime, and drip acclimated the fish.

Fortunately, I put the fish in a Q/T tank.

Now, a little over a week later, I discover that the fish have ich. But I'm not worried. Sure, I may lose those fish, but I doubt I'll lose them all; I certainly won't lose any fish from my main tank.

I am able to treat the new fish with ich in their Q/T tank while my other fish in my main tank are completely unaffected. I even have two different python water changers which is good because I didn't discover the ich until after I did a water change on the Q/T tank. So now that python is infected, but my regular python for my main tank is unaffected.

This is a prime example of why a Q/T tank is so invaluable. Not only did the Q/T tank protect the fish in my main tank, but it is enabling me to better treat the new fish that have ich. I can control their environment specifically for their needs, including raising the temperature, adding salt, adding meds, and keeping the tank extremely clean due to a bare bottom so the ich cannot hide in the substrate when I vacuum the tank.

I did have new amanos with the new fish (they came together) which I have now moved to yet another tank. While they cannot come down with ich, it may be possible that some ich is on their physical bodies which could infect a healthy tank. Since free-swimming ich must find a host fish within 3 days, by placing the amanos in a tank by themselves, all the ich will simply die out over time making the amanos safe to put in my main tank. My only regret is that I didn't separate the fish and amanos in the beginning, but since I have extra tanks for Q/T, I can move the now (which I have done).

The very worst that can happen as a result of the ich is that I could lose all of my new fish. While that would be heartbreaking, it's nothing like the tragedy that would occur if I had put these fish in my main tank and was risking not only all of my fish, but my plants as well (due to temp, salt and meds). Plus, can you imagine how much meds it would take to treat 75g of water instead of just 10g? Not to mention that most ich meds turn the silicone blue which remains permanently. So at least the blue color will be on my Q/T tank and not my main tank.

This is the entire point of quarantine. I didn't expect to have a prime example right now, but that's why all new fish must be quarantined. You never _expect_ illness. It's important to always prepare for illness even when you're fish are coming from a reputable source and have received proper care. It's like having insurance. You hope you never need it, but when you do, it's a life saver.


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## Six (May 29, 2006)

Ich does not always occur because of the source, FYI. Fish can come down with the parasite in your aquarium and have nothing to do with the seller. 

I'm saying this because it sounds like you're blaming this "reputable" seller for an infection that could have been caused by the buyer.


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