# which pH controller is the better of the 2?



## russm4a3 (Feb 17, 2007)

Hello everyone,

I am looking to get a CO2 system for my pygo tank and cant decide which of these two packages is the best one.

Deluxe Automatic CO2 Injection System: Aquarium Equipment and Supplies - Aqua Buys

or

Freshwater Planted Aquarium Plant Care: Drs. Foster & Smith Deluxe Fully-Automatic CO2 System

anyone have personal experiences with either or opinions?


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

IMHO neither one of those systems is worth warm spit. Neither one has a decent check valve. They have tubing that works better as a diffuser than as a means of moving CO2 around. Not sure what a pygo tank is but the reactor may not be suitable.


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## russm4a3 (Feb 17, 2007)

Im really asking about the pH controllers which one is better? I know the tubing is not ideal as it is silicone but I did not know about the check valves not being worth dang. Why is that? I only posted the two set ups to illustrate the two different ph controllers i was looking at. But any information is useful. The tank is a 375 gallon acrylic which is why I believe I need a reactor.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

If you have a 375 gallon tank then that reactor won't even begin to work for you.

The plastic check valves break down very quickly when used with CO2. 

For a 375 gallon tank you really need to research your CO2 system. Do you have a sump? Does it have multiple returns?

Generally on a tank that size you want multiple CO2 injection points. This can be handled a couple of different ways. I need to check out the stuff I have on pH controllers. There is one of them that is thrown off by electronic ballasts. Need to find which one that is.


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## russm4a3 (Feb 17, 2007)

Rex Grigg, 

Thanks again for your reply. Yes I have a 75 gallon sump on it with dual overflows and returns (each return has two nozzles). The tank is 10'x30"x24"H. 

The tank houses 20 mixed pygos (piranhas) so I do not want (and cant have) anything too fancy. I really just want low tech plants (java ferns, java moss, dwarf sag, micro sword, and some anubias) with a few amazon swords. I was thinking about placing the reactor onto the sump and having the CO2 injected into it so the return pumps could disperse the water/CO2 mixture throughout the tank. I would of course have the returns pointed down to lessen surface agitation. But maybe my "logic" here is all wrong. What do you suggest for a tank like this?

I really do appreciate your time in answering my questions.

Russ


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Instead of messing with plants and CO2; wouldn't it be a better idea to give your tank a more natural look if you went to your local butcher and got some beef or pork bones? You could throw them in and the piranhas would clean them in nothing flat. The bones would settle to the bottom and look very natural.

Just kidding.:yawinkle:

PS: If I'm not mistaken, the Pinpoint pH controller can be affected by some types of electrical interference.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Left C is correct. The Pinpoint is subject to electrical interference.

Russ. I would build a couple of DIY reactors and plumb them into the overflows. A single reactor in the sump would be hard pressed to keep up with 450 gallons of water. There is not a commercial reactor available that I know of that is rated for that amount of water. The more I think about it the more I would if the plumbing allowed build four reactors and have them on each nozzle. But at a minimum two good sized reactors. How much water are you pumping per hour?

There are visual directions in my Guide on how to build a DIY reactor. But the big question is how much water are you pumping?


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## russm4a3 (Feb 17, 2007)

thank you left c

Im guessing around 1800 gph. At most I could do two reactors. I am not sure if I would have enough room to plump them into the overflows as the space is limited...but it is something I will look into. I forgot to mention that i have an fx5 with its input and output in the middle of the tank. Would having a reactor in both the sump and one plumbed into the fx5 be enough? Your site is very helpful by the way.


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## diablocanine (Jul 25, 2004)

russm4a3 said:


> thank you left c
> 
> Im guessing around 1800 gph. At most I could do two reactors. I am not sure if I would have enough room to plump them into the overflows as the space is limited...but it is something I will look into. I forgot to mention that i have an fx5 with its input and output in the middle of the tank. Would having a reactor in both the sump and one plumbed into the fx5 be enough? Your site is very helpful by the way.


Put a powered reactor in the sump, an inline reactor wastes recources when a sump is available. The pinpoint is a better controller but costs more also. A Milwaukee SMS122 and MA957 will work just fine. Here is a link to a forum sponsor where you can get it all Aqua Botanic Store

Powered Reactor = $48.99
Milwaukee MA9657 = $83.99
Milwaukee SMS122 = 89.99
CO2 proff tubing = .89 per foot
10lb CO2 cylinder = $83.99

Would run you a little more than $300 plus shhipping but does include a cylinder. You can shop for better prices if you wish. Here ia a link to the above parts illustrated in a working system. 110 Gallon Discus Tank Sump w/eheims & HOTs - The Planted Tank Forum .....DC


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

DC, I hate to burst your bubble but that reactor at the AB store will in no way handle the requirements of a 450 gallon system. Hell most people have problems with it on a tank over 75 gallons.

You can't plumb stuff into the lines of the FX5 from the reports I have read. It messes with the computer control of the filter. You don't want to plumb the reactors into the overflows but into the returns.


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## russm4a3 (Feb 17, 2007)

Wow DC nice work on your Discus tank set up that was amazing..

Rex, thank you for reminding me about the FX5 computer. It looks like I need to spend more time researching this out. One last question. If each pump is rated at 1200 gallons per hour how large does each reactor need to be using 3"diameter pvc or the like? Im sure they are not pumping that much due to the height of the flow (about 5 feet to the top of the tank) and one is turned down a bit since the pumps were returning water faster than the drains could handle.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

I would not go 3" without trying 2" first. 

I think that if you went with 2" pipe and made them about 25-30" long they would work fine. Just take a look at how I build mine. Nothing fancy. Just physics at work.


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## russm4a3 (Feb 17, 2007)

Unfortunately I do not believe my stand will accomadate such a long reactor. My stand is only about 25" tall on the inside which is why I was thinking of going wider on the reactor. Unless you can have them in at an angle instead of completely vertical without loosing efficeincy. Your plans look great, very easy. Thanks again.


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## diablocanine (Jul 25, 2004)

russm4a3 said:


> Unfortunately I do not believe my stand will accomadate such a long reactor. My stand is only about 25" tall on the inside which is why I was thinking of going wider on the reactor. Unless you can have them in at an angle instead of completely vertical without loosing efficeincy. Your plans look great, very easy. Thanks again.


Use a powered reactor, it will work, you can even try using 2 together if your plants/lights need it (y 2 lines from the regulator, it works, I did it). Rex you're not busting my bubble, I know it works on a 110 with a 30 gallon sump and it will work on a 450, those reactors have a lot of potential. Maybe I am wrong though, have you performed some tests on this powered reactor I am not aware of; or have you had different results with one in your tank? I have done plenty of trials with this type of reactor in mine checking time to lower PH with one and even two of these reactors. An inline reactor is not the best solution for all setups. I have used/seen just about any way imaginable to diffuse CO2, a powered ractor is by far best for a sump......DC


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## russm4a3 (Feb 17, 2007)

Thank you DC for the insight on the power reactors I will continue to look into them. From what I have seen on other sites they look as though they may work for me...


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

I have never personally used that style of reactor. But I have seen a lot of people that have had problems with them on larger tanks. They can't get enough CO2 into the water. Most of that is due to the size of the pump used. I recall that they use a Rio 200 on that reactor. That's rated at 138 gph. Unless you have massive amounts of CO2 being injected into that little reactor it will never get decent CO2 levels in a large tank.

DC. If you used one and can get 30 ppm of CO2 in 140 gallon of water without any problems then perhaps 2 or 3 of them in a sump would work for the 450 gallon system.

Larger diameter reactors don't seem to work as well as smaller ones. I think it's because the velocity of the water drops too much.


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