# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Staghorn Algae die die die



## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

ok so my tank is going ok now witht he exception of one thing. STAGHORN ALGAE!!!!
argh as much as i try to kill this stuff its just started sprouting everywhere as if it owns the tank. Ive been doing water changes once a week to try and curb any build ups of nutrients. Otherwise the only thing i can think of thats making this stuff come back would be the length of the photoperiod im using which is 14 hours. can anyone recommend something to get rid of this stuff???? my otos and sae wont even look at it let alone get near it. whats worse is that not only is it growing on my plants but its decided to grow on my driftwood for crying out loud. help please someone.


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

ok so my tank is going ok now witht he exception of one thing. STAGHORN ALGAE!!!!
argh as much as i try to kill this stuff its just started sprouting everywhere as if it owns the tank. Ive been doing water changes once a week to try and curb any build ups of nutrients. Otherwise the only thing i can think of thats making this stuff come back would be the length of the photoperiod im using which is 14 hours. can anyone recommend something to get rid of this stuff???? my otos and sae wont even look at it let alone get near it. whats worse is that not only is it growing on my plants but its decided to grow on my driftwood for crying out loud. help please someone.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

A: Make sure you have good C02 levels, I had an outbreak when I refilled my bottle and did not set the bubble count high enough.

B: Make sure your Macros are in good ratio and quantity, I consider the macros being low in conjunction with low C02 and high light causing my big ass Staghorn outbreak.

HTH


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

ok here are some water parameters 
pH 6.8
kH 4degrees
NO3 5ppm
Fe ?
PO4 ? dont have a test kit for this yet
Phosphates I have no idea either as I dont have a test kit for this yet

Ok so the staghorn has steadily started to grow ever MORE. I dont know what to do. Ive cut the photoperiod back to 10 hours a day and yet this stuff still continues to grow. Should i be dosing micros more? I think 5ppm of nitrates is reasonable isnt it? Also the co2 levels according to the chart is right around 25ppm so that should be ok too. What am i doing wrong???? in addition to this wonderful staghorn growth ive started growing what looks to be the beginning of bba?? in my java moss. This stuff sickens me. Algae sickens me. Help


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

I had an out break in two tank of that stuff. I found that it was cause by fluctuating CO2 levels. I use DIY CO2 in those two tanks. When I change the yeast solution sooner and increase the yeast amount I solve the problem. BUT it looks like your CO2 levels are right on the mark. To low or to high levels in Fe and PO4 can be the problem you are having in balancing your tank. How are your plants growing? Do you see new growth? If so you might have high levels of FE or PO4. If there not growing or pearling levels are to low. I would say test for Fe but I haven't had a test kit worth a flip that I would believe. Can you test for PO4? Any way that's where I would start.

Hawk

Trust But Verify «*»®


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

hi hawkeye
yea as youve read my co2 levels have been pretty stable although im not using a ph controller currently. i dont have a Fe or PO4 test avaliable to me but i think i need to get at least a PO4 test kit soon. you mentioned pearling levels well i dont have any pearling happening at all. i dont know why maybe my micros and macros are off?? ill probably get a PO4 test kit soon and test for that since I havent the slightest idea what it is. i am getting phenomenal plant growth however if that helps clarify anything? argh staghorn and bba suck.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Please realize, because you have 5ppm Nitrate does not mean you should have growth or no staghorn. You also need the two other macros, Potassium (K) and Phosphate (PO4). Are you dosing Nitrate? Are you Dosing PO4 or K?


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

hi justin
no i am not dosing nitrates or phosphates. i could be dosing potassium however. im not certain as to exactly what im dosing because im using this stuff called horizon growers. its made by some company in the city of ramona, ca. i dont know the exact contents of the mixture but from what ive read its a knock off of tropica? i could be wrong i dont know. i dont think im going to get this algae problem solved until i get a phosphate test kit and getting some micro mix that i know the concentrations of everything are.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

If you get the macros in correct ratio and amount you will kick this staghorn in the but. Dose some K. It will not hurt if you do too much, but don't go crazy. If possible use an online dosing calculator and put together a mix ideally from Potassium Sulphate. This is easy to get and dirt cheap. Get a PO4 test kit. I reccomend Red Sea's as it is accurate enough to allow you to reasonably control the P04 and it is not expensive. See what results you get from the test kit and go from there. If your using a Tropica rip-off, it's a micro mix, and it will not contain any macros.


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

thanks a bunch justin.
ill probably do as you advise. i will be needing to get a phosphate test kit and im supposed to have an order of seachem nitrogen, potassium, and phosphate coming in but bigals.com has seemed to neglect me. i guess ill have to call them and see whats up. thanks for the recommendations.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

The seachem line is great stuff, and if you only have to add small amounts to a small tank they are ideal. If you find that your going through them real quick, your gonna want some DIY additives. If so, you know where to find us!


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

I should add, if you can get a complete makeup of that rip off stuff your dosing please let me know what it is your using. Always looking for a new aquarium based micro mix.


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

hey justin
are you suggesting that you could make me a DIY micro mix? if so how much would it be and all. anyhow i still have yet to find out what the stuff im using is made up of.


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

ok i just got my phosphate test kit and i tested my water.
PO4 approximately .5ppm
NO3 5-10ppm
pH 6.6
kH 4 degrees

the thing is i still have staghorn algae. the bba attack has started to die off but the staghorn remains. my plants are growing at a decent rate and i cant tell that theres a deficiency of any nutrient. what am i doing wrong? im gonna do a water change and dose micros(flourish) and check to see what my nitrates and phosphates are after and dose accordingly.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

I am not aware of a recipe for making your own micro mix. However that does not mean it could not be done, Maybe I should look into it.

The missing link here could very well be Potassium. Ideally you would have 20ppm of it, but it is very hard to test for, so you just use an online calculator to figure out how much to dose according to your solution and hope for the best. Or you buy a potassium additive and follow the manufacturers directions, and increase them accordingly.

The other thing I would consider is your flourish ripoff stuff. I think it's important to find out what is in it, you could be screwing something up because that stuff could be crap. You never know.


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

sup justin
yea i started using flourish instead of the horizon growers stuff. i just started dosing potassium and if i need ill dose nitrates and phosphates. the staghorn is getting out of control and is growing everywhere and i have no idea what to do to get rid of this stuff. everytime i try to wipe it off something it starts up in another place. to make it worse my algae eaters dont even look at the stuff and its hard to get off plant leaves and other surfaces. i hate staghorn algae


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

In my experiance rubbing it off only made it spread faster. Once I got my water and C02 under control, it disapeared over the course of 5 days or so. What algae eaters are you using? 

What lights are you using? Please be as detailed as possible. Tanks volume?

Are you dosing Iron? If so how much? How much do your plants grow in a day? Any old leaves turning yellow? Do you see any visible signs of Iron deficiency? If all the macros are right, and the light is good, the plants should be growing. If they are growing fast, but so is the algae, Iron may be the culprit. High levels of iron can cause Staghorn. If the plants are doing ok, give them a few days to suck up the Iron and see if that does not slow down your algae. 

I cannot stress this enough, Macros Macros Macros. Give the plants what they need to grow well and they will keep everything in check.

Go over your Hardware for me, as much detail as possible. I am dedicated to seeing you through this! Don't give up!


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

Hi Justin.
thanks for helping me through this ordeal. Now onto answering your questions.

40 gallon acrylic 36"x15"x16"
2 55watt 6500k AHSupply power compactts 24"
1 AC500 with filterfloss and foam no carbon

as far as iron is concerned i am not dosing it currently and my plants grow around .25" per day. i dont seem to find any deficiencies in any of my plants currently except that old leaves die but i dont think thats a deficiency. im not sure if this is an iron problem that im having as i havent dosed iron yet. 

my tank nitrate readings are always constant and i dont dose nitrates. i think the fish i have in there are keeping this constant at 5ppm. as for phosphates i test the water every other day and check to see if i have to dose or not and dose accordingly. 

ill be doing a water change today and that means dosing with some flourish. i typically dose 1ml everytime i do a water change which is once a week and then dose 1ml again before the next water change. i also dose potassium at water changes(the recommended amount on the bottle) and i test the water to see if nitrates or phosphates need to be added. what level of phosphates should i keep it at ideally? ive been trying to aim for anything less than .2ppm is that correct? 

god i hate staghorn!


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

What is the spectrum of your bulbs?

What type of CO2 system do you have? ph and kh levels please!

Can you give me some details on exactly how old leaves die? Do they turn yellow and rot, do they get holes in them and disintegrate? Ect.

Nitrates are ok around 5ppm. For this NO3 level you want the PO4 around .2ppm to .3ppm

Your adding 1mL of flourish? That should be a wee bit higher, IMO. I consider the recomended dosage on the bottle to be a lower end starting point. Work your way up from there. I dose about 6times the recomended dosage of Tropica Master Grow to keep the green spot down.

Do you happen to have access to Japonica Shrimp? They can be good staghorn removers!


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

hi justin
the spectrum of the bulbs is 6500k. if thats not the number youre looking for then i dont know what you are? the power compact setup was purchased from ahsupply.com so it should be a quality kit. 

pH between 6.6 and 6.8
kH 4 degrees
NO3 5-10ppm
PO4 .2-.5ppm
ive begun dosing trace at a lower level however you said that i should step up the recommended dosage on the bottle so i will starting today. how much do you recommend i should dose for a 40 gallon? as for CO2 i am using a pressurized system consisting of a 2.5lbs CO2 tank and a milwaukee regulator/solenoid/needle valve combination.

as for the old leaves dying they used to die with little holes and then just turn transparent and fall off but ive started dosing the potassium phosphate nitrate and trace and the older leaves no longer die this way. 

also yes i do have access to japonica shrimp however theyll just get eaten by the fish in the tank =(. i do have otos, SAEs, and am considering getting a bristlenose pleco.

one interesting thing is that i find that the java moss i have pearls everytime i dose the flourish. could it be that im lacking something when i dont dose the flourish? also the older leaves on the plants seem to get covered in staghorn so i have to prune those leaves. also the java moss is beginning to get covered in staghorn and it doesnt looks like it will be easy to remove as its entwined in the moss.


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Do you happen to have access to Japonica Shrimp? They can be good staghorn removers!


I heard nothing likes staghorn. Anyone else have actual experience with the amano shrimp eating stag? If so...I just might have to go out and get some!


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

im not sure about the japonicas eating staghorn. i used to have a japonica in my tank and he didnt touch the staghorn and then he got eaten. i havent heard anything else eating staghorn either. god i hate this stuff.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

My japonica eat staghorn. They eat any form of algae in the tank, there are 20+ of them, in a 75g and I don't feed them, so I think they are always hungry.

With the amount of light and the C02 you have, you should see daily pearling. I do, there are no less then 15 continuous streams of air going to the top of the water, and every leaf that could possibly trap air under it has done so.

Think of it this way. All the light energy going into the tank needs to be converted by something. If the plants are not using the energy, you know the fish are not. It's gonna be the algae. So what you need to do is give the plants enough nutrients to be able to use all the light energy you provide them.

Increase the dosage of flourish and keep close track of how much you add. The day you see pearling, stop. If the next day you don't get pearling, add what you added the day before. If you then get pearling, stop dosing and see how long it takes till you stop pearling. If you don't increase the dosage. This will give you what you need to dose.


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

hi justin
so how much flourish should i be dosing? should i be dosing every two days? or everyday? the instructions on the bottle say you should dose 1ml twice a week for a 40 gallon tank. i think im gonna try dosing that. as far as iron goes should i be adding this also? or should i hold back on dosing iron? also if i should dose how much?

sorry i have all of these questions i just really want to get rid of this stuff badly.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

I have never used flourish personally, but I suspect 1mL per 40g twice a week is not nearly enough.

I have our Seachem reps email, I will shoot him an email and see what he feels is better. 

If I were you I would dose like I said to in my last post. That is how I figured out my tanks consumption rate. For example using Kent's Botanicas Potassium additive, it says use 5mL per 10Gallons weekly. I made the stuff DIY style now, I have to, I made it in the same concentration because I have to add 100mL every two light cycles or my plants will stop pearling because the macros are bottoming out. 

So in short the manufacturer recomends 37.5mL and my tank requires 350mL a week. See my point?


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

ok so i broke down and treated some of the affected things in my tank. i used a 1:20 parts bleach solution and soaked for about 2 minutes. the stuff died instantly im so happy that it did. there are some stuff that i havent treated yet however, like the substrate, but i will eventually. i figure since im moving and what not i should just wait till i move, which is in a week, and just treat everything then( plants, substrate, the works). thats not to say that the damned stuff wont come back however. jeez i wish i knew what was causing the stuff to grow in my tank.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

You already know what is causing this staghorn outbreak. A unbalanced enviroment. Here is what the Sechem rep told me, it;s quoted here:



> quote:
> 
> There should be no negative effects as long as the Plant mass in
> your tank corresponds with any increase in dosing...if you dose way
> ...


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Have not asked this before, how many plants do you have in your tank?


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

id say that more than half the tank is planted. other than that i dont know how to tell you how many plants i have. im seriosly considering planting the entire tank however to help soak up free nutrients in the water and prevent more crappy algae from growing.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Half the tank IMO is not enough. Ask in the General Forum if anyone has some clippings to spare. Something fast growing would be ideal. What you want to do is spread them out good, so when you look down form the top of the tank throught to the bottom, you don't see a whole lot of gravel. Then continue dosing your macros, including more Flourish, and see where that gets you. Once you get things back in order, the staghorn will dissapear within a few days.

So increase your plant load, the more the merrier. Then:

Increase your flourish dosage, Start with 2mL and see if that gets you any pearling. On the other hand. Dose 1mL and when the plants stop pearling, dose again.


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