# Baseball 2008



## erijnal

The All-Star Break is bearing down on us. Are you happy with where your teams are?

Current division leaders:

*AL*
Boston Red Sox
Chicago White Sox
Los Angeles Angels

*NL*
Philadelphia Phillies
Chicago Cubs
Arizona Diamondbacks

The NL West is the Worst, the Tampa Bay Rays are still keeping pace with the BoSox, and the Cubs are helping keep elderly Chicagoans alive. Will the division leaders stay the same? Who are your picks for the wild card?

Let's discuss all things BASEBALL here!


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## erijnal

By the way, great story with the Fresno State Bulldogs today!


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## jazzlvr123

go red socks!!!

fenway park is literally a 3 minute walk away from my apartment you can hear the crowd roars from my room hehe. 

unfortunately last time i went to fenway to watch them the socks lost!


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## mikenas102

jazzlvr123 said:


> unfortunately last time i went to fenway to watch them the socks lost!


If I had some extra money laying around I'd buy you season tickets. Go Yanks!

Anyway, looks like the AL is dominating the NL again in interleague play. I haven't seen the tally yet but it sure seems that way.


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## mikenas102

Oh and can we get rid of those freakin maple bats before we see somebody get killed?


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## Robert Hudson

Tampa bay is a real surprise this year. It will be interesting to see if they can keep it up all year. At least they are helping to beat the Yankees down. 



> If I had some extra money laying around I'd buy you season tickets.


from what I understand, every game at Fenway for the rest of the year is sold out.


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## erijnal

Seriously, those maples bats are scary

Any bets on whether the NL West division leader finishes over .500 at the end of the year?

Trade rumors! For pitching, C.C. Sabathia is a hot item assuming the Indians can't extend him, Erik Bedard is talented but doesn't seem to care about the game, Oswalt and Lowe might both be available, and the Blanton/Harden rumors should start up any day now. Oh, and you can go after Brett Tomko if you want

Not as familiar with the bats out there. Dunn's name is out there, as well as a few Pirates like Nady and Bay. Does anyone want Andruw Jones? hahah


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## mikenas102

Nothing against the Dodgers but I'm glad to see them struggle. As a huge Yankee fan I always disliked Torre as a manager. He was always overrated. It's good to see his reputation brought back down to earth by the dodgers. Nice guy and all but there are some people out there that think he's the greatest manager ever.


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## erijnal

Mike, every day I wonder why Scioscia was never given a chance. Every. single. day.


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## fishman9809

hey hey hey, the NL West may suck, but the Giants swept the Diamondbacks, so ha!! we always lose to bad teams and win to good teams, wat is up with them.

WHY DONT THEY GET RID OF ZITO?!??!?!?


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## erijnal

fishman, beating teams within our division isn't much to speak of these days hahah

It's kind of like a battle of the losers. Everyone's scuffling!


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## mikenas102

fishman9809 said:


> WHY DONT THEY GET RID OF ZITO?!??!?!?


With the contract they gave him he will be a Giant for the duration of that contract. Nobody is going to touch him at that price. Probably one of the top 5 worst contracts in baseball history.


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## lildark185

mikenas102 said:


> With the contract they gave him he will be a Giant for the duration of that contract. Nobody is going to touch him at that price. Probably one of the top 5 worst contracts in baseball history.


SF will probably end up eating his contract to get rid of him. Pavano's one of those bad contracts, he's such a useless pitcher.


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## mikenas102

Zito's contract doesn't even compare to Pavano's. Pavano was only for 4 years and nowhere near the money Zito is making. The best part about Pavano is that at least he isn't losing games for the Yanks. I'd rather him not play at all than do what Zito has been doing to the Giants.

Zito 7 yrs $126 million ($18 mil per year avg)
Pavano 4 yrs $39.95 million ($10 mil per year avg)

Not even close

And for all the Yankee haters from Boston how about this little ditty:
Matt Clement (remember him?) 3 yrs $25 million ($8.3 mil per year)


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## mikenas102

I also should have mentioned since signing the contract Zito is a combined 14-24 with 4.90 ERA. I'm still trying to find a contract in the history of MLB as bad as this one.


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## erijnal

I guess you could say that Schmidt's contract comes close. He might still give the Dodgers one good year though, depending on how effective he is coming back from shoulder surgery.


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## mikenas102

Yet another gem by Zito today.
5 innings, 4 ER, 5 walks 113 pitches in 5 innings and only 68 for strikes. Now at 5.99 ERA.

On another note:
Mark my words. The Rays are not for real and will finish 3rd in the A.L. East.


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## freshyleif

All I can say is to bad for you guys. I am an A's fan for 20yrs and have gotten used to watching all the great talent developed and then stolen by richer teams and larger salaries so sucks for you he is not having a good time in S.F. he sure was great for us. I mean if it would make you feel better every winter comes and I can expect to see half the roster change. Maybe money doesn't have anything to do with performance?


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## BryceM

The Rays are certainly not real, the Yankees don't look great, and the Sox are just waiting for their yearly slump. At least the Rays are making it interesting for once.

Go RedSox!


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## erijnal

And the Rays finish a sweep of the Red Sox..


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## mikenas102

That's not surprising since the Red Sox are the most overrated team in baseball right now. The only reason they are still riding the wave of popularity is because the media loves them and ESPN is full of Sox fans. If they were any other team they wouldn't even be talked about with the team they're putting on the field right now.


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## mikenas102

Can anyone logically explain how Manny Ramirez can throw a 64yr old man to the ground and not get suspended? Chacon had his contract terminated for something not too different. Is there any CLASS at all in the Boston organization? Can you say double standard?


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## snowhillbilly

I always love the baseball thread. It doesnt look good now but Atlanta and the Twins should start reeling in the comp. I hope to see them in the playoffs.


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## erijnal

Mike, it's probably safe to say that society as a whole turns a blind eye if you're a superstar. For example, Michael Vick would be the exception, not the rule.

Doesn't seem like the Sabathia trade made much noise at all. I'm sure the Brewer fans are happy though. Strange that I haven't heard anything about the Brewers trying to extend him immediately. Cubs appear to be countering by trying to acquire Harden from the A's. 

Can't believe A-Rod's divorce details are being made a deal of. Can't the baseball writers stick to writing about baseball?


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## mikenas102

erijnal said:


> Mike, it's probably safe to say that society as a whole turns a blind eye if you're a superstar. For example, Michael Vick would be the exception, not the rule.


My biggest problem with it is that the red sox are the first to cry, complain and criticize whenever there is any goings on in the Yankee system as if it's their business. However, they still haven't done anything to their own guy for beating up an old man. Could you imagine the press if Jeter or A-Rod had done this? They'd be marching in the streets in Boston demanding action be taken. And that's the truth!!


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## mikenas102

I'm shocked at how quick the Cubs moved on Harden after CC was gone. I think they absolutely fleeced the A's. Gaudin is no slouch himself. He's shown in the past how good a starter he can be when he's right. A little coaching and experience and Gaudin can be a solid #3 guy.

AS far as A-Rod and the divorce stuff the media are just a bunch of scumbags. Leave the family alone. There are kids involved and nothing like this ever turns out well.


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## Robert Hudson

Mikey, mikey, mikey.... beating up an old man.... no matter how much you cry and sniffle it will not change the fact that the Yankee glory days are long gone! Nobody cares about Arods personal life. If he wants to get busy with that old skag Madonna, then thats his buisness!  In these modern times people no longer expect baseball players to have morals or set an example for youth. So its no big deal. 

I love the Yankees! They beat the Rays which helped put the Sox back within two games of first. Its nice to know the Yanks have our back!


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## mikenas102

Yes beating the Rays was nice. Almost as nice as the Yanks wiping that fake tough guy face off Papelbon and beating him YET AGAIN. 
Robert, How quickly you try to change the subject away from the classless red sox and the scumbag manny. The topic wasn't about anybody's glory days. The question still remains. What have the sox done to discipline Manny Ramirez for throwing a 64 yr old man to the ground? Anybody? Anybody? Beuller? Robert?


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## tfmcder

Are you on the Yankees payroll?


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## mikenas102

No but are you making me an offer?


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## lildark185

What about when Pedro threw Zim to the ground. Classy move Pedro, maybe he learned it from the cock fighting.


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## Minsc

lildark185 said:


> What about when Pedro threw Zim to the ground. Classy move Pedro, maybe he learned it from the cock fighting.


You aren't referring to when Pedro defended himself from a man 3 times his size charging at him, are you?

All this Sox hate is terribly amusing... having lived in Boston, I know why people complain about other teams... it has to do with being upset about LOSING!

BTW, does anyone know what actually happened about the Manny situation, or is it simply hearsay?


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## mikenas102

It's true. It happened. Still nothing done.
Story here


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## erijnal

Well.. we could spend all day talking about organization dysfunctions, or.. we could not

Anyone see Hiroki Kuroda's one-hitter? It was pretty cool how Chad Billingsley followed by throwing 5 no-hit innings, even though that resulted in a blowout, and Derek Lowe be perfect through 6 innings. 

Looks like Brian Fuentes is one of the more sought-after players at this point, and some teams are starting to entertain the thought of signing Barry Bonds.


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## tfmcder

Manny is a textbook jock and an idiot...so is Pedro. They are both spoiled, rich, superstars, so they get away with things that everyone else would be punished for. What both of them did is disgusting and gives you a glimpse of their true character. Money can't buy class!!!
Oh, and for the record I am a Mets fan and a Boston fan and I don't hate the Yankees. I became a Boston fan after watching the '86 series and feeling pretty bad for them and now my sister lives in New England. I'm not a Boston fan just to spite Yankees fans...so please don't read it that way.

Side note: How about the Mets starting to play like a $120M team?!!!...we'll see how long this lasts...damn are they overrated and overhyped?!!! Both NY teams are in need of major overhauls. The next couple of seasons are gonna be dark!


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## mikenas102

I don't think anybody will sign Bonds. At least I hope not. You're better off throwing a lit stick of dynamite into your clubhouse. They'll both cause the same destruction.


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## erijnal

Oh my Lordies, Torre said he wouldn't mind the baggage that Bonds would bring into the clubhouse. The Dodgers GM Ned Colletti already said the Dodgers weren't interested in Bonds, but to hear the manager say something like that scares me

The Mets have been on my mind since they've been playing pretty well of late! The East should be pretty interesting to watch, as well as the Central after the acquisitions by the Brewers and Cubs. 

I seriously cannot wait to see Tampa Bay in the playoffs. That would be pretty sweet to see, regardless of whether or not they're "for real". Pretty much a nobrainer at this point that the Wild Card will be coming out of the AL East


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## mikenas102

I still don't think the Rays will even make the playoffs. Young teams always tend to fade down the stretch and their lead is not exactly mind-blowing. 

The Mets are a ticking timebomb. I think the Phillies will hold on to take the NL East. Just like the Rays, the Marlins will continue to fade.

Look out for Detroit. What an amazing turnaround. One more big starting pitcher and the A.L. Central is theirs to lose.


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## Robert Hudson

> All this Sox hate is terribly amusing... having lived in Boston, I know why people complain about other teams... it has to do with being upset about LOSING!


The Yankees have been the most hated team in baseball for a 100 years. The Brooklyn Dodgers had class, something the Yankees can't even spell. Yankee fans used to say it was a badge of honor to be so hated, so I suppose the Red Sox should feel honored that the Yankees give them this title now, now matter how baseless it is. The media loves the Yanks. They still have more games broadcasted, they have the endoresements. They are the media darlings even though they havn't won anything in years, but the FANS love the Sox. The fans nationwide voted more Red sox to the all star team than any other team in baseball. And the players even voted a couple sox to the back up string. The sox fill stadiums, and they have enough depth that even when their best players are injured or in a slump they can keep in the running. It is a great time to be a Sox fan! Yankee fans are just bitter! :slywink:



> What about when Pedro threw Zim to the ground. Classy move Pedro, maybe he learned it from the cock fighting.


Pedro is long gone, isn't he a Yankee now? And "Zim" was with the Red sox for a long long time before he was with the Yankees. Another has been we gave the Yanks. Why don't they dust off Clemmons again? He can pass out roids to everyone on the team. (Or maybe his wife will pass them out). They can get Bonds too and have a real roid rage team


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## mikenas102

Pedro a Yankee? I thought you followed baseball Robert. I guess I was wrong.


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## erijnal

Who thinks David Wells will be pitching soon!

I do!

I still laugh thinking how he dropped a drag bunt for a single in his first start for the Dodgers.


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## mikenas102

Wells is great! I don't know if I'd want him pitching for my team at this point but I'd love to throw back a couple cold ones with him. He definitely has more heart than 99% of the young guys on the field these days.


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## lildark185

Hamilton is a monster! 28 HRs in the 1st round, its a shame he didn't win the whole thing.


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## erijnal

Yeah, even Morneau said that Hamilton was the true winner. What a beast

Pretty funny article about Ichiro Suzuki's pep talk before the All-Star game


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## nailalc

Even as a Twins fan, I thought that having Morneau win was anti-climatic. I felt bad for every player who came up after Hamilton, all the crowd wanted to do was watch Hamilton.

Go AL tonight!


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## erijnal

Pretty good game so far!


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## erijnal

WOW what a remarkable inning by the sinkerballer Cook. Got all the groundballs he needed there.


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## Robert Hudson

> Pedro a Yankee? I thought you followed baseball Robert. I guess I was wrong.


I was being ... I can't spell it... phosecious... sarcastic!

What an all star game! 15 innings! Red sox save the day again. Drew gets the MVP award, and Papelbon is hot as usual. I have never seen so many plays at home plate in one game before. It wore everybody out.


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## mikenas102

Papelbon saves the day? Oh wait I get it. You must be being phosecious and sarcastic again. Next to Mariano's dominance, the fans chant of OVERRATED for Papelbaby was very entertaining.


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## Robert Hudson

I said he was hot... and even with the jeers from class-less yankee fans he struck em out! Shut them up real quick. He out pitched Mariano. What did Mariano do? He gave up hits and the fielders saved his but. Even the commentators said that Papelbon said nothing in disrespect during that interview. Only in New York would a player such as Papelbon be disrespected over nothing. If the roles were reversed and it was in Boston, it never would have happened.

Where were the Yankee bats in this game?


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## mikenas102

Robert I see you are still too busy to do any research before you make statements. It's becoming a habit with you. Debating with you is too easy. You're living by the statement "Open mouth, Insert foot".

In the game Yankee hitters were 1 for 5. Boston hitters were 2 for 9. Neither were exactly lighting up the world. Drew had a HR and won the MVP. All Star MVP honors often go to somebody with only 1 or 2 hits because players only play a few innings. It's nothing to shout about.

Mariano went 1.2 innings without giving up a run. Papelcrybaby went 1 inning and gave up a run. Yes it was unearned but he still gave up a go ahead run. Unearned or not, if the AL was winning it would still have counted as a blown save.

Just for fun lets compare season stats.
Papeloser:
2.43 ERA and 4 blown saves.
Mariano:
1.06 ERA 0 blown saves and an incredible 4 walks in 42 innings.

That's just this year. Need we compare career stats? You don't want to go there.


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## erijnal

I'm just glad that Russell Martin represented the Dodgers well.

Funny how both pitchers with the best ERA's as starters (Volquez and Duscherer) gave up runs.

Corey Hart has a noodle for an arm.. Not sure how he wasn't able to throw out Morneau lumbering down from third on a regular distance fly ball.

Would have been pretty funny to see another tie though.. maybe this will move baseball to actually play out an All-Star game instead of shoving all the players through a revolving door


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## nailalc

How about the representation from the Twins?? Nathan pitches a 1-2-3 inning, Mauer had a hit and a walk in his two at-bats, and Morneau went 2-4 with 2 runs scored and a walk.

Not a bad showing from a team in 'flyover' country, away from the East & West coast bias.


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## xspy

Go Sox!!


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## mikenas102

If Nathan pitched in a bigger market his name would be huge. He doesn't get the recognition he deserves. His numbers are great.


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## erijnal

The Twins as a whole probably don't get the recognition they deserve.

Isn't Liriano all better now? Why isn't he in the majors? I know he won't be as electric now that he can't rely on that nasty slider as much anymore, but it should still be an upgrade to a spot in the rotation.


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## mikenas102

The truth about Liriano is that if the Twins leave him in the minors past a certain date (I don't know what it is) it backs up his first arbitration eligible year. What the Twins are telling everybody is that there is no room in their rotation. It's all about the money. He's lighting up the minors. He just won pitcher of the month in AAA.


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## lildark185

I thought they were already past that certain date. Just like Evan Longoria, before they called him up. They tried to postpone his arbitration but ended up signing him long term. I think Liriano will be called up soon, very soon.


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## nailalc

Liriano's agent is asking the union to investigate why he hasn't been called up because of the belief the Twin's are trying to postpone arbitration. Problem here is that the Twins have four young pitchers that are actually doing a fine job and it seems they don't want to rush him back to the majors (the first month this year he was terrible at the major league level). There has been some small talk in this market of possibly going to a six-man rotation when he's called up, if they can spare a another roster spot on a starting pitcher. 

What the Twins really need is a right-handed hitter.


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## erijnal

Man, I might be speaking too soon, but the Mets keep finding ways to win. Didn't think losing Randolph and some other personnel would eventually lead to such a turnaround!


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## lildark185

I wouldn't count on the Mets continuing their winning ways for too long. Their pitching isn't exactly the best and Pedro seems like he's just going to fall apart anytime.


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## mikenas102

lildark185 said:


> I wouldn't count on the Mets continuing their winning ways for too long. Their pitching isn't exactly the best and Pedro seems like he's just going to fall apart anytime.


I totally agree, and not just because I'm a Yankee fan. The only thing saving them is that they play alot of weak teams, i.e. 3/4 of the National League. They also have chemistry problems on that team. Their clubhouse is a timebomb.


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## erijnal

The Sabathia move sure put a charge into the Brewers.


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## BryceM

Do the RedSox players have a contract clause that requires them to go into a mid-season slump? Same old thing, different year.


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## mikenas102

Alot of teams go into slumps when they're playing the Yankees! The Yankees are hot. The division will be OURS!!


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## xspy

Not so fast there buddy.. Sox put a stop to there winning streak, even if it did take manny acting like a fool all week. Once the trade deadline is out of the way the sox will make a charge and reclaim there spot atop the division.


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## mikenas102

The Sox run is over. Time for them to focus on rebuilding. The writing is on the wall. Too MANNY issues.


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## BryceM

Mike, would it be poor form if I changed your avatar to a Red Sox one?


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## Robert Hudson

> The Sox run is over. Time for them to focus on rebuilding. The writing is on the wall. Too MANNY issues.


That is the most ridiculous statement you have made. I know you love trash talking Mike, and you are goating me here, but get real. The Yankees always make a last ditch effort at the last half of the season and towards the end, and for the last how many years have they always fallen short? I think the Boston curse was transfered to the Yankees! They are like the little train that couldn't. Just like their fans, all talk and no show.

The fact of the matter is the Sox are in no worse shape than the Yankees. Both teams have been plagued with injuries and slumps. This is Jeeeeeeeeeters worse season in years. The Yankee bats have been quiet, and your pitching has been nothing to brag about either. You have one star pitcher and another who likes to throw head shots. The difference is the Sox have had enough depth to stay competitive even when their best players are out, somebody else has picked up the slack. The Sox have the best team they have ever had in decades. Better than the 67 dream team, or the 75 team that brought them to the world series. They may not make it this year, but they certainly have a better chance than the Yankees do.

The reorganization of the leagues with expansion, rule changes, inter-league play, longer season, has changed the game. The Sox have been as consitent as most any other team can be. I do not think any one team will ever totally dominate the game again.

Give it a rest with your personal attacks on Red sox players. If Manny or Pap were on any other team you wouldn't give a rats patoot about them. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Manny ends up being on the Yankees one day. Its getting really old Mike.



> Robert I see you are still too busy to do any research before you make statements. It's becoming a habit with you. Debating with you is too easy. You're living by the statement "Open mouth, Insert foot".


You want to make this personal Mike? How typical. I didn't realize I was debating with you, and I certainly wasn't talking stats. Whats next? You going to start attacking Lester? You going to call him over rated too? I suppose you are going to say something like you are sick of hearing how he overcame cancer...
Is that whats coming next?


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## Minsc

BryceM said:


> Mike, would it be poor form if I changed your avatar to a Red Sox one?


How can I bribe you to make this happen?
I have some rare soft water plants...


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## mikenas102

Robert,
I never intend to make baseball talk personal, however you've thrown out so many theories, stats and ideas in recent memory that it's obvious that you either don't do much research, don't watch much baseball or are just one of the many Sox fans that discovered that Boston has a team in 2004. Relax. It's not personal.

As for attacking Sox players I can talk all the trash I want. Isn't that what Boston and New York fans have been doing for 100 years? There are plenty of Sox players I respect. Ortiz and Lester are the first two I think of. I would take either on my team anyday. On the other hand Manny is just plain trash, Youkilis is a baby and Paps is a little too cocky and over his head at this point in his career. There I said it! Am I some horrible person now? BTW, Manny will NEVER be a Yankee.

Baseball is my biggest hobby. I'm extremely passionate about it. I run and participate in more fantasy baseball leagues than I can handle. I can also recite stats on just about any player you can name. So shoot me. It's what I love to do.

I don't ever expect for you and I to agree on Yankee-Sox issues. That's what makes a rivalry great but it's just baseball. If you ever get around this way I'd be happy to crack open a cold one with you and watch a Yankee-Sox game.


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## mikenas102

BryceM said:


> Mike, would it be poor form if I changed your avatar to a Red Sox one?


Yes it would. That would be like forcing you to get in your plane and skywrite a big interlocking NY symbol over the city of Boston.


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## mikenas102

Anybody else agree that the Angels robbed the Braves for Texeira? With all the teams wanting him that's the best they could do? I understand Texeira's just a rental but Casey Kotchman? Are they kidding? The minor leaguer they got is nothing to brag about either.


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## erijnal

Kotchman wasn't exactly flashy, but I kinda liked watching him play whenever I found myself watching an Angels game

Solid player, but I agree, I thought a Teixeira rental would bring in more than that. Guess that means the other offers on the table weren't impressive. If the Angels succeed in re-signing Teixeira, even better for the Halos.


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## mikenas102

Yankees just got Ivan Rodriguez for Farnsworth. Decent trade for both teams I guess. Both players are free agents after this season. Yankees needed another catcher and Detroit really needs bullpen help. Farnsworth has been really strong lately but isn't really an innings eater. We'll see what juicehead pudge can do in the Bronx.


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## xspy

BryceM said:


> Mike, would it be poor form if I changed your avatar to a Red Sox one?


LOL.. sounds like a good bet though.


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## lildark185

mikenas102 said:


> Anybody else agree that the Angels robbed the Braves for Texeira? With all the teams wanting him that's the best they could do? I understand Texeira's just a rental but Casey Kotchman? Are they kidding? The minor leaguer they got is nothing to brag about either.


I don't think it was that much of a fleecing. The Braves get Kotchman and have control of him for a couple of years at a very low price along with a pitcher. Tex, while a great player seems like just a rental player considering he can walk away after the year and go to the O's.

As for Pudge, he's definitely an upgrade from Molina and Moeller. Farnsworth was doing quite well before the trade and I think the trade itself is going to unsettle him.


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## mikenas102

An hour and a half before the trade deadline and it looks like the Manny deal is almost dead. That's gonna be tough for him to play out the rest of the season there after all that has been said the past couple days.

Griffey is finally going to a team that has a chance at the postseason.

Unless the action picks up at the last minute it looks like a rather slow final day compared to the past couple days.


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## erijnal

Fudge, the Dodgers just got Ramirez. Red Sox acquired Bay.

Early sources say that the Pirates received four minor leaguers in the three-way deal, so at least it sounds like we didn't lose any of our major-league ready talent.


....Maybe we'll DFA Andruw Jones now... unless we want five outfielders on the roster.


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## mikenas102

Never saw this one coming. Dodgers get Manny, Sox get Bay and the Pirates get four pretty good prospects. Sounds like the Pirates made a good deal. Where else were they going to get 4 prospects for Bay? Andy LaRoche and Bryan Morris from LA and Craig Hansen and Brandon Wood from the Sox. Not too shabby.The Red Sox got rid of a distraction but Bay is no Manny in the batters box.


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## mikenas102

It's going to be fun watching Manny play full time in a full size outfield and not little league size Fenway park left field. The weaker NL pitching should make up for the batting average he would have dropped by losing the short wall in fenway.


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## lildark185

No more 1-2 punch for the Red Sox. The trade takes a big chunk out of the chemistry in the clubhouse. The Red Sox are like a classroom without the bully, now what kind of classroom would that be?


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## Minsc

Losing Nomar was fine, he was a nutcase, and his ankle was junk.
Losing Pedro was acceptable, as his body is falling apart.
This.... is not okay.

The problem is that Manny might be right, it is very likely the Sox owners are bullies and jerks to the players. They have certainly produced some results, but I am concerned about the future of the Sox with their current ownership.


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## mikenas102

Bottom of the ninth with the go ahead runs on base Jason Bay doesn't scare me like Manny does. Bay is good but he's already reached his ceiling. I don't see him getting much better than he is now.


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## xspy

I agree with you Mike. I don't see me relaxing as much in that situation with Jason at bat.


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## lildark185

Seems like both players are adjusting well to their new teams. We'll see how far they can carry them into October, if at all.


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## xspy

It is nice to see Manny being Manny again, even if it's not with the Sox. However being a Sox fan you gotta wanna punch the guy in the eye for the way he played the past few weeks. We could have put the ball boy in there and got more hustle out of him.


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## erijnal

BOOOOOYAA

Manny hits another homer today, and goes 4-5. I was at the game when he hit his first homer, a two-run shot, for the Dodgers. My buddy turned to me and said, "Dodgers aren't used to this kind of baseball huh?"

Won't lie, he had me on that one hahah


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## Robert Hudson

> Manny hits another homer today, and goes 4-5. I was at the game when he hit his first homer, a two-run shot, for the Dodgers, and my buddy turns to me and says, "Dodgers aren't used to this kind of baseball huh?"


Torre is quoted as saying that Manny is in the top five hitters of the year and they are thrilled to have him. Our guy Bay is doing well too. I think it was his first game as a Red sox that he hit a triple. Bay is also a lot younger than Manny.

Now Mike is the king of stats, so I am sure he will correct me, but his stats for the year are pretty close to Manny's. His average and number of hits and so forth are very close to Mannys. And he plays the same position, but actually has fielding skills! Writers are saying there is nobody better that the Red sox could have gotten. The fans at Fenway gave him a standing ovation. The drama and distraction is gone, we have a solid hitting lineup, and the Red sox can now get back to business again. Meanwhile the Yankees have started losing again. They are chocking a little early this time...



> The problem is that Manny might be right, it is very likely the Sox owners are bullies and jerks to the players.


Oh give me a break! How can you say that with a straight face! For 8 years the Red Sox coddled him, treated him like royalty and catered to his every little wim, while he spit in their face. He treated management in Cleveland the exact same way. It was the rest of the Red Sox that said he should go. Even Ortiz said he was hurting the team.

I wouldn't get to used to him being on the Dodgers. When his contract is up, its unlikely he will stay, and many people are saying the Yankees will get him.


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## Minsc

Robert Hudson said:


> Oh give me a break! How can you say that with a straight face!


Was Manny being immature and causing a huge disruption? Absolutely he was!
That doesn't change the fact that similar complaints have been made by Nomar Garciaparra, Pedro Martinez, Bronson Arroyo, Derrek Lowe and Curt Shilling.

I hope I'm wrong, but there does seem to be a growing number of players who don't like the way
the Werner/Lucchino/Henry/Epstein group handle their business. I just hope it doesn't bite the team in the rear end, although in my opinion that is exactly what just happened.
My take on the matter is that the Sox tried strong arming someone who doesn't have the emotional maturity to handle it, who then lashed out as a response. I doubt having Boras in Manny's other ear helped anything either.

Ah well, Manny seems to be doing well, Bay seems to be doing well, it is a happy ending for everyone...
Right?


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## Robert Hudson

Yeah, I guess everybody is happy, except Mike! [smilie=u:

I don't blame it on management at all. Who cares about Pedro. He is ancient history and long gone. I don't think Schilling has ever complained about management, and I don't remember any of those other people doing that either. I can barely remember who they are. Schilling is just about finnished. Schilling is a trooper. Schillling is everything Manny isn't. Remember the bloody sock? Schilling got himself in trouble because he started critising other players, Bonds, and other pill poppers. I don't remember him ever having any issues with management. I wouldn't have cared if Manny stayed, but you can not have a player that just decides when to play whenever he feels like it. Nobody has ever done that before. You know he got a million dollars just for moving expenses! Moving expenses! Can you believe that! Thats just sick.


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## mikenas102

Robert,
The Sox are a hot 2.5 games ahead of the Yanks. At least we weren't swept away by the Angels. You make it sound as if MLB is ready to hand the Sox the trophy. Far from it. How about concentrating on 1st place? Why are Sox fans so fixated on the Yankees even when they're not the ones to be chasing? Ahh I guess its envy. Something about all those World Series rings just gets under the Sox's skin. Stay focused on the real goal. What you should be worried about is Papi and how nobody has to pitch to him anymore with Manny gone. Was that another 0 for 5 from Papi last night?


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## Robert Hudson

Blah blah blah... the yanks should be taking Viagra instead of steroids, maybe then their bats would pick up :cheer2:


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## xspy

As a Yankees fan you should know why Sox fans are so fixed on what the Yanks are doing. For years the Yankees punished the Sox, making it another "wait till next season" year. But over recent years the Sox have climbed that mt everest that always seemed impossible. However we are not going to forget it lol. It's the Greatest Rivalry in sports. If your a Red Sox fan you gotta hate the Yankees. It's just how it is. Like everything else your only as good as your last championship. :first:


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## Robert Hudson

For you Sox fans:

BOSTON -- These days, Fred Lynn doesn't make it back to Fenway Park more than three series per year. Living in San Diego, the cross-country trek isn't easy to do any more often.

Lynn spaces his trips out -- one in April, another in July and one more in September. And when he comes back, he takes pleasure in seeing old teammates such as Jim Rice and Luis Tiant. All of the memories start coming back to them.

"When I'm out on the West Coast, I don't think about it much. But when I'm with the guys, we start talking about baseball," said Lynn, whose latest trip back to Fenway was in late July, when the Red Sox hosted the Yankees. "Jimmy [Rice] and I talk about golf; we're golfers. When we hook up, we take on all comers."

Take on all comers? Sounds a lot like Rice and Lynn during the 1975 season. The rookie duo, known as the "Gold Dust Twins," bolstered the heart of the Boston lineup and helped propel the team into the World Series, a heart-breaking seven-game defeat to the Cincinnati Reds.

Lynn's arrival into the big leagues that year was unlike anyone. He won both the American League Rookie of the Year and MVP honors in 1975, with Rice coming in closely behind him in both categories. Only Ichiro Suzuki in 2001 can claim the same honor.

"I can't remember two rookies coming on the same team and having that type of impact," Lynn said. "Obviously we helped the club, and had Jimmy not gotten hit by Vern Ruhle [by a pitch that broke a bone in his wrist] in late September, we would've had him in the World Series. We might not have had to wait until 2004."

But unfortunate happenings like that were the norm for the 1970s Red Sox, and despite having strong seasons in '75 and '78, Lynn's Sox did not win a championship. Lynn, a nine-time All Star, played his final game for the Sox in 1980 before spending the remainder of his 17-year career with California, Baltimore, Detroit and San Diego.

Since then, Lynn has spent time broadcasting games on the West Coast for ESPN and CBS, as well as the College World Series. More recently, he's worked at the corporate level with Major League Baseball and helped to raise money for charities such as Cystic Fibrosis, breast cancer and Childhaven -- a facility for neglected kids between the ages of three and 18.

His allegiance to the Red Sox organization is still a strong one, and he takes part in charity golf outings with the club during his trips back to Boston. Lynn was inducted into the Red Sox Hall of Fame in 2002.

Keep smiling Freddie. Be proud.

My prediction now is the Sox will take it in September and the Rays will take the wild card. The Yankees will be dead in the water. I forget the number now, but Boston has a huge number of home games in September, while the Rays have a greater number of away games. I think thats what it will come down to.


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## xspy

Robert Hudson said:


> For you Sox fans:
> 
> BOSTON -- These days, Fred Lynn doesn't make it back to Fenway Park more than three series per year. Living in San Diego, the cross-country trek isn't easy to do any more often.
> 
> Lynn spaces his trips out -- one in April, another in July and one more in September. And when he comes back, he takes pleasure in seeing old teammates such as Jim Rice and Luis Tiant. All of the memories start coming back to them.
> 
> "When I'm out on the West Coast, I don't think about it much. But when I'm with the guys, we start talking about baseball," said Lynn, whose latest trip back to Fenway was in late July, when the Red Sox hosted the Yankees. "Jimmy [Rice] and I talk about golf; we're golfers. When we hook up, we take on all comers."
> 
> Take on all comers? Sounds a lot like Rice and Lynn during the 1975 season. The rookie duo, known as the "Gold Dust Twins," bolstered the heart of the Boston lineup and helped propel the team into the World Series, a heart-breaking seven-game defeat to the Cincinnati Reds.
> 
> Lynn's arrival into the big leagues that year was unlike anyone. He won both the American League Rookie of the Year and MVP honors in 1975, with Rice coming in closely behind him in both categories. Only Ichiro Suzuki in 2001 can claim the same honor.
> 
> "I can't remember two rookies coming on the same team and having that type of impact," Lynn said. "Obviously we helped the club, and had Jimmy not gotten hit by Vern Ruhle [by a pitch that broke a bone in his wrist] in late September, we would've had him in the World Series. We might not have had to wait until 2004."
> 
> But unfortunate happenings like that were the norm for the 1970s Red Sox, and despite having strong seasons in '75 and '78, Lynn's Sox did not win a championship. Lynn, a nine-time All Star, played his final game for the Sox in 1980 before spending the remainder of his 17-year career with California, Baltimore, Detroit and San Diego.
> 
> Since then, Lynn has spent time broadcasting games on the West Coast for ESPN and CBS, as well as the College World Series. More recently, he's worked at the corporate level with Major League Baseball and helped to raise money for charities such as Cystic Fibrosis, breast cancer and Childhaven -- a facility for neglected kids between the ages of three and 18.
> 
> His allegiance to the Red Sox organization is still a strong one, and he takes part in charity golf outings with the club during his trips back to Boston. Lynn was inducted into the Red Sox Hall of Fame in 2002.
> 
> Keep smiling Freddie. Be proud.
> 
> My prediction now is the Sox will take it in September and the Rays will take the wild card. The Yankees will be dead in the water. I forget the number now, but Boston has a huge number of home games in September, while the Rays have a greater number of away games. I think thats what it will come down to.


:clap2:


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## Robert Hudson

Holy cow! Jay are you paying attention to the Ranger series? First game we beat them 19 to 17, making a new record... Ortiz hit TWO home runs both in the FIRST INNING! Next game we beat them 8 to 4 and right now its the 2nd inning and the Sox lead NINE to nothing! Ortiz hit a three run home run.:rofl:


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## erijnal

Pretty amazing what the Rays are doing this postseason..


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## xspy

This is it.. game 7. it's Been a bumpy post season but a great one to watch.


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## xspy

Robert Hudson said:


> Holy cow! Jay are you paying attention to the Ranger series? First game we beat them 19 to 17, making a new record... Ortiz hit TWO home runs both in the FIRST INNING! Next game we beat them 8 to 4 and right now its the 2nd inning and the Sox lead NINE to nothing! Ortiz hit a three run home run.:rofl:


lol yeah I did watch that series.. Good stuff.


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## BryceM

Win or loose, this postseason has been VERY entertaining if you're a RedSox Fan. Wow!! Big game tonight............


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## erijnal

Rays take it! Any other year I'd root the Phillies on, but the Rays are just too good of a story. Hope they win the championship


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## xspy

It was a good year. The Rays have alot of good years ahead, being such a young team. Can't wait till next year =)


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## Jason Baliban

*Go Phils!!*

Congrats to the Rays on a great season and a great World Series. In spite the weather and the bad calls (on both sides) they gave us a good run and should be proud.

I know everyone is Philly is proud (although I may not agree with how some choose to show it) of our Phillies!!

Hopefully we will both get a chance next year for a rematch!!

jB


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