# how many neons can I get away with?



## greenfish4 (Nov 7, 2005)

I have a 60 gallon heavily planted tank that w/ pressurized co2 and a rena xp3 (350gph) with 3 julli corys, 4 or 5 ottos, 2 SAE, 2 flying foxes, I want to add dwarf gouramis (colisa lalia) and neon tetras with 2 or three of the gouramis how many neons do you think I can get away with having? I also think i might move the 2 flying foxes (if I can catch them and maybe one or two of the ottos to make room for another julli cory or two.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

about 15 neons is plenty


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## greenfish4 (Nov 7, 2005)

hey again Zapins
Do you think this tank sounds over stocked?


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

well, as a general rule of thumb the less fish you have in a planted tank - the better. fish just create waste that accumulates on the bottom and causes algae where it lands as the waste begins to break down into ammonia which is why all the guru's planted tanks have only small tetra fish and a few other small algae eaters. 

if you decide to get the neons you might have to do a few more water changes in order to keep up with your fish but since your tank is quite large and many of the fish you have dont grow very big (ottos - 1", dwarf gouramis - 2" and neons ~1") they wont create much mess. though the julli corys do get to 4 inches and so do the saes and flying foxes. so its up to you really. if you do decide to get the neons i probably wouldnt get anymore fish for the tank and might even consider removing the jullies or SAEs as they grow bigger.


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## greenfish4 (Nov 7, 2005)

I think I will probably move the flying foxes and maybe the julli if I could ever catch them. and go with a small school of neons (under 10) and a single dwarf gourami.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

thats a good idea. if you want to catch the jullies and SAEs without destroying your tank you can try making a fish trap out of a 2 liter soda bottle. just cut it in half (so that the bottom half can still hold water like a cup) and turn the bottle neck part around and inset it back into the bottom cup part. then put the jullie/SAE's favorite food in it and put the contraption into the water. it will take a few minutes but the fish should smell the food and eventually swim inside where they will not be able to escape since the opening is much harder to escape from on the inside.

here is a link that diagrams this
http://images.google.com/imgres?img...es?q=fish+bottle+trap&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&sa=G


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## greenfish4 (Nov 7, 2005)

that is the best idea i have seen in a while. I have been thinking about the best way to trap the fish i wan't to move for a while, and i have thought of somewhat similar things but that is ingenious /  
that will make these transfers much easier.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

I really don't think the Cory's need to be moved, but the Flying Foxes should go (they're rowdier than SAE's).

Neons are such tiny fish, and have such a small body mass, you could get by with 15 or 20 of them in a 60 gallon in addition to the other fish, providing you get the FF's out. The dwarf Gourami's will add some load, but really I've seen tanks half that size that have more fish than that in there. It also helps that it's heavily planted.

I agree, you should bring your Cory group up to at least 6, since you have the room.


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## greenfish4 (Nov 7, 2005)

awsome news!! i have been kind of mulling it around and i didn't really want to lose the cory's, since there are only 3 of them they are still very timid, but if there anything like other julli's I've had they will become very entertaining little guys. I have one dwarf gourami from another tank that i want to add and i know I don't have to quarantine him but what do you think about the new cory's, should I quarintine them? how about the neons? would a visiual inspection be sufficient?


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

quarantine is probably the best and safest method of keeping everything healthy. unless you are super-adept at watching for signs of disease i would probably still do the Qt method. in the past i usually was able to get by on visual observations but there was that one time with the tape worms.... unfortunately i couldnt see inside them... d'oh


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## greenfish4 (Nov 7, 2005)

how long is an effective qt?


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

usually a week or so should be fine, but longer if you are especially worried about contaminating your tank and want to be absolutely sure


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

I agree, a q-tank is really important if you are bringing in fish from an outside source. There are just so many things that aren't visible at first, so if it does pop up, you'll be really happy they're in q.
I usually leave them in quarantine for at least 3 weeks and in that span of time, if anything is going to arise, it should have by then.
Obviously if a problem arises in that time span, it would have to be extended to be sure you clear it all up before exposing it to your main tank.


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## greenfish4 (Nov 7, 2005)

is there any special way I should set up the Q tank? 
How about salting the water to reduce stress? would this be good or would it just delay visual signs of what ever may be wrong? 
how about a bare bottom 10gallon (for smaller fish) with a mature sponge filter?


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

I wouldn't add salt, since some fish are sensitive to it.

A bare bottom with a mature sponge would work just fine. I also like to add some hiding places for the new fish to reduce stress. Any plants, driftwood, rocks, etc. would work just fine for that.


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## ranmasatome (Aug 5, 2005)

The easiet way to remove SAEs and fast fishes like flying foxes would be to make a DIY fish trap. I got both of mine out without touching the plants at all and within 15mins.http://www.floridadriftwood.com/fish_trap.htm


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Honestly, I don't understand this stocking thing. To me it seems that the quantity of NH4 produced by a fish should be more or less proportial to its mass. This assumes that fish have roughly equal metabolic rates. The reason comets and oscars are so horrible is that they look like jumbo jets.

It would take about 100 neons to equal 3 or 4 rainbows, congos, or anything else of similar size.

I think you could add neons with reckless abandon - maybe 50 or so..... 

Then again, I'm ignoring the stocking "rules" and wondering why I have algae problems.


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