# What are you thoughts on the 2004 AGA contest?



## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

The contest is over. What are your views and thoughts for this contest?


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## tanVincent (Mar 19, 2004)

First, would like to congratulate Gomer for winning 3 awards.

Second, a piece of caution for you scapers.....Asian Powers are taking over the aquascaping world !!!!

Cheers
vincent


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## Norbert Sabat (Jun 26, 2004)

IMHO  the best contest tanks:





































(except this discus)


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

All I have to say is that the results were surprising and awkward; some of the aquascapes that didn't receive a ribbon looked much better than the others that did! That's just my observation..

But I want to congratulate Gomer on his great success!


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

I agree with Raul-7 -- I was left wondering about some of the choices, although I chalked it up to me not knowing the specific details/requirements of "aquascaping" as an art. There certainly were so many great tanks, though, and I almost wish I didn't enter.......  


Congrats, Gomer - beautiful tanks you have and awards much deserved!


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## shunjung (Sep 14, 2004)

I cannot access it!


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## waynesham (Apr 26, 2004)

shunjung: I think the server is busy now ........ so, try it later !!


And Congrats Gomer !!! :wink:


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## shunjung (Sep 14, 2004)

This is my entry:
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2004.cgi?&Scale=514&op=showcase&category=0&vol=1&id=9

http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2004.cgi?&Scale=514&op=showcase&category=0&vol=2&id=107
and Congratulations to all other entries!


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Deborah,

I was super happy to see your entry and am glad you had the guts to do it. Ricky Cain said something really good that I can't quite remember, but it paraphrases out to "It takes a LOT of guts to enter a tank in something like this. Everyone in the hobby will probably see it at some point and will be comparing it to others. I just [had to] trust myself and let it go to be able to enter." This coming from a guy with some of the most popular aquascapes out there.

I wish more of the hobbyists out there would enter their tanks. As thrilled as I was to see the quality of the entries, I was even more thrilled to see the large percentage of what I would call "real tanks." I can't think of a nice way of saying this, but not everyone can be a Navarro, Senske, or Gomez. If only that small percentage of the hobby supported the AGA then we'd have a very small membership. It's everyone else who loves the hobby and grows plants for the fun of it that is what makes the AGA what it is, not the award winning aquascapers.

Regarding the results. I'll have a longer commentary on that, but for now, keep this in mind. The separation between 1-15 in any given category could be as little as 14 points. The competition was INCREDIBLY close this year and it came down to nit-picky details in many cases to break ties.

Best,
Phil


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## Aaron (Feb 12, 2004)

Phil,
You make some great points. Just imagine, this is the tip of the iceberg. There are so many aquascapes out there that will never be seen by the general public for what ever reason. Without venues like this, the hobby does not grow and evolve, it does not pull more people in, and the bar is not raised. 
Entering these contests is indeed intimidating. I for one felt this way and if it were not for people close to me urging me to do so, i would not have. (But I was still chicken sh_t enough to enter it under my dog's name!  ) In the end, I am so very glad I did. This experience has made me more committed to this craft than ever before. Infact, I just scubbed down my neglected 125 and 120 and plan to set them up again... wait, maybe this isn't a good thing...

By the way, is it possible to get the actual scoring sheet for one's tank? I think that would be real interesting AND helpful to be able to see.


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## Wheeler (Feb 8, 2004)

I especially liked the judging comment:

"The foreground is ugly"

I laughed for about 30 minutes. I also felt the results were suspect.


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## gnatster (Mar 6, 2004)

There has been some discussion running about in chat and via PM that the AGA contest is rigged. I cannot agree with that assertion and would like to think as a group the AGA is above that kind of thing. There is no money or substantial prizes involved, only the recognition of your peers, so why rig. Conspiracy theorists among us are waiting for Oliver Stone to release the AGA Contest movie to be vindicated. 

However I do think that we do not know what we are being judged on when we enter. The entrants need to have some idea of the criteria a judge uses and does each judge weight each criteria the same. 

When one presents a car for concours competition in certain venues the criteria are well known. It is quite detailed but it needs to be that way. If GM consistently over sprayed a certain part in 19XX on model Y than you lose points if you cleaned it up. 

Lets hear from the judges past and present what how they go about the process and I'd go as far to ask why the judge feels they are judge material. What goes into making a quality aquascape judge?


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Thanks Phil for the kind words (again) and thoughts on the contest. 



I did not 'question' the results per se, or even consider a "conspiracy," but more was surprised in terms of my choices versus the judges'. But, again, I'm going by what I feel is more attractive rather than prescribed aquascaping 'guidelines.' And, we all know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

I think y'all should take your surprise and disappointment one step further by taking even the merest of positive steps. A lot of folks seem to be willing to complain about the results but so far Norbert S. is the only one who has even said which 'scapes he thought were good.

People who want to disagree with the contest results should propose their own rankings; 1 through 5 in each category, complete with your justification for why they are the best in that category. Given the load that the contest site has been bearing recently it is probably best *not* to link to the site; either simply list the entries or copy a photo from the site and link to the copy. You can use your own criteria if you want. If you want to stay consistent with the AGA judging criteria, then you can find those attached below.

It might be interesting to see whether there is any consensus ranking that differs from the contest results. I would also be interested in seeing any proposed revisions for the guidelines below.


Roger Miller
*******************

Criteria

There are four basic criteria which we wish considered in the judging of the aquascapes entered in the contest. They are:

* Overall Impression (between 1 - 35 points)
* Composition, Balance, Use of Space, Use of Color (between 1 - 30 points)
* Selection & Use of Materials (between 1 - 20 points)
* Viability of Aquascape (between 1 - 15 points)

To assist the judges, and to clarify and expand upon the basic criteria, these are some of the things we ask each judge to consider when reviewing each entry:

* Overall Impression - maximum 35 points
o Does the aquascape make a significant positive visual impression upon the viewer?
o Do all parts of the aquascape work together to present a harmonious whole?
* Composition, Balance, Use of Space, Use of Color - maximum 30 points
o Is the aquascape laid out well?
o Does balance exist between the various components of the aquascape? Is space within the aquarium used effectively? Do open areas exist and balance and complement more enclosed spaces?
o Are the colors of the various elements of the aquascape complementary and do they work well together?
* Selection & Use of Materials - maximum 20 points
o Are the materials selected for use within the aquascape appropriate for use in an aquarium?
o Are the various materials harmonious with one another? i.e. if several rocks and/or pieces of driftwood are used, do they compliment one another or do they produce a discordant effect?
* Viability of Aquascape - maximum 15 points
o Is the aquascape set up in a manner which, with proper maintenance, is likely to lead to long term success of the aquarium?
o If used, are the plants selected for the aquascape appropriate for long term use in an aquarium?
o If visible, are the animals selected as inhabitants of the tank likely to cause damage to one another or to the aquascape itself?


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

I don't know if there will ever be a contest where everyone agrees on the results. My favorite was Gomer's algae tank however my criteria for judging that certainly didn't cover all those points Roger just listed, I just liked it and thought it was unique. One thing that did surprise me however was the importance given to maintenance, for example one tank lost points because it used a tiger lotus as this plant would eventually send out a couple floating leaves which would have ruined the look. I'm not sure I agreed with that personally, I liked the look of the lotus there and having them myself I don't feel cutting a couple leaves every month or two is that much of a problem. I guess one needs to know the criteria for judging and be careful not to include elements that would bring the rating down, regardless if you agree with them or not.

But I really would have liked to hear what Amano wanted to say regarding Gomer's tank, but I guess time was an issue as we marched ahead pretty quickly at that point.

Giancarlo


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

I agree that the judge's coments sometimes seemed to over-emphasize maintenance requirements. It's impossible for me to say how much that consideration might have effected the scoring. "Viability" -- the judging criteria where I think maintenance requirments might be considered -- is the lowest points category. The repeated comments on maintenance requirements may have been made more because they were easy comments to make than because they reflected the judge's scoring.

Incidentally, the criteria I listed earlier are from the AGA site. They are not something I made up.


Roger Miller


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

Thanks for that, in reading the comments from the judges I see for example how Oliver's tank was obviously one that fell in this high maintenance group but still won first prize. Perhaps as you pointed out it was just a matter of repeating the same "defect" during the presentations that made it seem like this was a major issue and one that played a greater role in scoring than it actually did.

A lot of great tanks though, hard to pick amongst them all!

Giancarlo


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## Ricky Cain (Jan 23, 2004)

I know that for me personally the overall impression carried the most weight. I could give a hoot about viability and maintenance. Those are choices an individual makes when planning out and setting up an aquascape. I don't know how much time a person has to devote to their tank so I tried not to think about that even though I had to use the AGA criteria in judging.

Just because maintenance is difficult or your bait eats the other bait in the tank is not an aquascaping critque issue for me. We have long since passed the time where everyone wants to setup up a tank and have it look the same for years on end or at least I hope we have.

Let me say this, it is much, much easier to enter the contest than it is to judge it. I'm going to try and stay on the entry side of the fence from now on.

Ricky


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Someone please explain how this qualifies as a creative aquascape and worthy of 1st place? Bare white sand and two groups of plants? Everyone here knows who Jeff Senske is. According to the WEB site he won first place in the same catagory as Oliver. Was it a tie or should it say second place?

Every single year there has been discussion like this after each contest and I think even one of this years judges has been critical in the past of the judging. I agree with Roger in that everyone has their own opinions and views, but each year there have been some aspects of the judging that just do not seem to make sense.

Phil told me he was trying very hard to be impartial which is why he gave up being moderator at my forum, but can anyone except Mr. Amano be at all impartial when the majority of the pictures in the contest were displayed and talked about in this forum, my forum, Planted tank, Aquatic Quotient, Age of Aquariums and other forums months before the contest?


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

> Phil told me he was trying very hard to be impartial which is why he gave up being moderator at my forum, but can anyone except Mr. Amano be at all impartial when the majority of the pictures in the contest were displayed and talked about in this forum, my forum, Planted tank, Aquatic Quotient, Age of Aquariums and other forums months before the contest?


What do you suggest then Robert? That anyone ever considering a contest entry should never post a picture publicly till the judging is over? And giving the first, that the tank can never be entered in another contest in the same year since it has most likely been made public with contest results? Or do you suggest that all contests should just not exist?


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

That tank is indeed tied for 1st place with Oliver's tank. If the total scores were calculated one way Jeff's was 1st, if calculated the other Oliver's was 1st. I chose Oliver's tank for BoS because it is a better example of a general planted tank, which is what the majority of the AGA showcase is all about.

As far as that tank being a creative aquascape, it is just that. I've said it before and I'll say it again until I find one better...in my opinion this is a perfect planted discus tank. The hardscaping and choice of plants is a perfect compliment for the fish, and vice versa. Yes, bare-bones, this is just a few pieces of wood, some rocks, and bunch of Amazon Swords in a tank. Just as with other minimalist art the skill lies in artfully and tastefully arranging the few elements into something greater than the sum of the parts. Yes, it's bare compared to the rest of the aquascapes we see, but it's a DISCUS tank, they need space. 

So what if it has light colored gravel? It shows off the colors of the discus better and is in fact the very color of the sand in the Amazon where these fish live. Not only that, but it goes well with the powder blue color of the fish. Oh yeah, it's CLEAN too. That shows care in maintenance, it's hard enough to do in a regular planted tank, let alone one with discus. 

Finally, consider the scope of the aquascape. This is a 300+ gallon aquarium with a school of 10 *adult* discus. Making that kind if impression with so little in such a large space is evidence of skill and forethought, not luck and photoshop. That's why it did as well as it did.

As far as folks seeing tanks prior to the competition it's up to the judge to be impartial. Seeing all the scores and commentary on this particular tank during BoS discussion it's clear as a bell that the judges were impartial in this case. Everyone here knows who I am, does that mean I can no longer participate in discussion of my aquascapes or in aquascaping contests? Hardly.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

So far I have been staying clear of these discussions for two reasons. One, I feel guilty as there were alot of scapes I liked alot more than mine  Most importantly though, I make my tnaks for me. My enjoyment. I enter because I value others opinions and I want to learn and be a part of the community. I read my comments once, and I don't remember them now. I am pleased that I made something I wanted to show the world. I am proud yes, but I really only care for my opinions in the end

Now I will go back to remaining out of it Congrats to all who won and all who entered, whether it was a "normal"[-X tank or not


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## C_perugiae (Feb 26, 2004)

Entering the AGA was a goal of mine since the beginning of the year. When I got there and saw the other entries, I have to admit I knew the tank I entered wasn't all that special and knew it wasn't going to get a second glance. Yes, I'm just a hobbyist. The tank that was entered wasn't my best work ever, but it was clean, the fish are very healthy, there's no algae, and I put a lot of work into it. I'm in the same boat with Dennis in that, in the end, it's the feeling of creating something I wasn't embarrassed to share. 

I showed livestock for several years and learned a long time ago that once all is said and done, it's really about the sportsmanship, learning new things, and meeting folks with the same interests. Once I got my courage up, I actually struck up a couple conversations at the convention and found people to be very warm and friendly. Special thanks to Tom Barr and Diana Walsted for chatting as long as you did. That wouldn't have happened at the some of the livestock shows at national level; believe me, I tried.

When I got home and arrived at the pet store where I work, I was reminded why my tank exists in the first place. There were several folks who wandered into the fish room, walked up to the nanocubes and stared right at mine... ignoring the saltwater nanocubes above it at eye level. 

The plant hobby is definitely a powerful one and I think we can do a great job of welcoming new folks. Everyone should be participating in contests like the AGA; seeing others' tanks is inspiring, especially to newbies. I know this from experience... several times, I've given customers the address to the contest results and they've always appreciated seeing the photos. A few times, people have come back with pics of their own tanks that are on that caliber after only a few months.

Sorry for the long sappy post, guys, but I felt really refreshed after attending the conference and wanted to speak my mind. With any contest, there's going to be disagreement about the results, but that's why it's a competition in the first place... everyone's going to have their own opinion.  I'm just glad there are cool sites like this and others where people can share info and experience with each other.

-Sarah


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## SCMurphy (Jan 28, 2004)

Entering the AGA is supposed to be fun, it's a hobby, a relaxing hobby. I don't have any opinion about which tank should or should not have won at the AGA but I did look at the ADA contest and wonder why one of the Bronze tanks was not the grand prize winner. :wink:



C_perugiae said:


> Sorry for the long sappy post, guys, but I felt really refreshed after attending the conference and wanted to speak my mind. With any contest, there's going to be disagreement about the results, but that's why it's a competition in the first place... everyone's going to have their own opinion.  I'm just glad there are cool sites like this and others where people can share info and experience with each other.
> 
> -Sarah


I seem to remember my wife and I sitting at the banquet with someone (a couple) from MI. I was running around like a nut that evening so forgive me if I forgot the name and have the wrong person.


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## baj (Nov 2, 2004)

At first glance, J senske's tank looks like a regular tank with java ferns, driftwood and juvenile discus swimming about. They need to start including a foot ruler in front of the tanks to help out people who are perspective impaired, like me.


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## C_perugiae (Feb 26, 2004)

Hey Sean... you sat with me at the banquet. I really enjoyed talking to you and the guys from Practical Fishkeeping. Your wife and I had a good chat when you were running around at the end of the banquet, so tell her I said hi.  My friend, Kirby, is very active in the reef hobby, so he's been going to stuff like MACNA and IMAC; it was his first freshwater convention and he really enjoyed himself.


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

C_p....

I wouldn't ever say that you're "just a hobbyist". There is nothing wrong with wanting to do this for fun and not get any deeper into it than that. Yes, a lot of us get really into it, probably more than we really need to, and let it become more than a hobby. Heck, I had to start keeping SW tanks just to have something aquatic I wasn't super involved in or had any desire to get involved in more than was necessary to enjoy keeping a tank. I wish I could go back to those "just a hobbyist" days, things were a lot more fun then.

I hope you were at the presentation of the awards after the banquet. You are a perfect example of the exact type of person I was thanking for entering and wishing we had more participation from. *Thank you, and everyone who participated for the same reasons you did.* I wish everyone had your attitude toward this hobby.

Best,
Phil


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## Kirbster (Nov 19, 2004)

I'm the aforementioned friend of Sarah's, and as she pointed out I'm a saltwater person and was thus out of my element at your convention. Speaking as an outsider and a scientist, I'll tell you I was somewhat taken aback by the emphasis everyone seemed to place on what was largely an artistic competition. Honestly, the only part of it that interested me was the biotopes, and that seemed to be the least appreciated and most sparsely-entered category. (For the record, I'll enter one of my own next year.  ) I'm used to conferences where the focus is on advancements of science and discovery rather than discussions of who used red plants too gratuitously and whose slope of background plants was too irregular. I certainly respect the art, but anything beyond a cursory discussion of its merits invites somnabulance. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and discussing it analytically detracts from the art, in my opinion.

That said, there was plenty of science to keep me happy. I'm not conceited enough to think that everyone is edge-of-the-seat excited over discussions of _Cryptocoryne_ phylogenetics and geographical distribution, but I sure love 'em! I thoroughly enjoyed many of the talks. I understand (now) that this hobby is far more art dominated than the reef hobby, and your conventions have to be a skilled marriage of art and science. In that respect, I think the conference as a whole was well done, even if the contest didn't tickle my interest much.

As I said, I'll enter a biotope next year. I won't win, because I have no interest in competition, but I'd love to share my ideas. I've had several FW biotope ideas bouncing around in my head for a while and having a forum in which to share them might be the inspiration to actually create them. In that respect, the contest is obviously a good thing.

So there's your unsolicited opinion from a plant outsider. Maybe I'll see some of you folks again next year.

-Kirby

_Plantae semper vivum!_ - or something like that. I can't think of a good Latin blessing for plant people.


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Kirby,

Perhaps, in reality, that is what we are: all budding artists.

Andrew Cribb


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## jaxal (Mar 23, 2004)

The best of AGA this year is Amano's comments. It's not sugar coat comment. Straight to the weakness point of the tanks that make easy too improve the tanks later.


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## C_perugiae (Feb 26, 2004)

I guess that kinda came out a little funny, Phil. I'm actually quite plant-obsessed, but a relative newcomer to the hobby. I order the aquatic plants for a pretty decent-sized pet store and manage most of the freshwater tanks, but I have just recently gotten serious about plants, probably only about eight months ago. Not only is it an interest of mine (competes well with homework) but helping people with plants and learning about what actually goes on in a planted tank is part of my job.

What I meant to say is that I'm still in that "hobbyist" level when it comes to what I know and how I work with my tanks. Hopefully, in the future, that will develop more rapidly, now that I have good internet access so I can learn from this site and others.

And yes, I was there at the awards banquet. I was as excited to see how won for the year as I have been the last couple years, even more so now that I have the hands-on experience. The only thing I missed all weekend was Amano's demonstration; after a long week of tests and papers for class and the flight the day before, I couldn't stay up any longer. I really regret not being around for the picture afterward, but hey, at least I'm in the pic with the rest of the girls and Amano. 

Hmm... had some other thoughts, but forgot them. I'll finish this up when I've had more than four hours of sleep and less than 10 hours of work at some place other than a trade show.


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

I think the contest are great and have gotten better each year.
Folks in the USA have gotten very good.

It's nice to see a blend of both Art and Science with a passion for weeds.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## K Randall (Nov 23, 2004)

Days ago, Roger wrote:



> I agree that the judge's coments sometimes seemed to over-emphasize maintenance requirements. It's impossible for me to say how much that consideration might have effected the scoring. "Viability" -- the judging criteria where I think maintenance requirments might be considered -- is the lowest points category.


Hi folks, I'm coming into this late, as I don;t visit ANY of the forums very often. But I wanted to mention that on this issue, one of the reasons that I tend to comment on maintenence ssues is that these are give-away points. Roger is right, there is not a tremendous emphasis on them. But this is an area where even if someone is not terrifically artistic, there is no reason to lose points, with a little attention to detail. Unless there are MAJOR problems with the long-term stability of a tank (which was not the case in ANY of the tanks within the top 75% of the contest this year) I am unlikely to take more than a point or two for viability "issues". But as Phil said in one of his posts, MANY of the decisions we had to make this year came down to taking a single point away here or there.

Karen


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## K Randall (Nov 23, 2004)

Ricky Cain said:


> I know that for me personally the overall impression carried the most weight. I could give a hoot about viability and maintenance. Those are choices an individual makes when planning out and setting up an aquascape. I don't know how much time a person has to devote to their tank so I tried not to think about that even though I had to use the AGA criteria in judging.
> <snip>
> Let me say this, it is much, much easier to enter the contest than it is to judge it. I'm going to try and stay on the entry side of the fence from now on.
> 
> Ricky


I think it is critical that "overall impression" carry the most weight... that is, IMO, what aquascaping is all about... the "wow" factor when someone walks into the room. But unfortunately, as you have seen first hand, once we agree to judge one of these things, we have to somehow order the tanks, and sometimes making the decision between one and the next comes down to the picky details. MOST of these tanks would have the "Wow" factor if you walked into the aquarists house and saw the tank sitting there by itself.

Karen


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## K Randall (Nov 23, 2004)

Robert Hudson said:


> Someone please explain how this qualifies as a creative aquascape and worthy of 1st place? Bare white sand and two groups of plants? Everyone here knows who Jeff Senske is. According to the WEB site he won first place in the same catagory as Oliver. Was it a tie or should it say second place?<<
> 
> It was definitely a tie. Both tanks were beautiful. There can definitely be beauty in simplicity.
> 
> >> Phil told me he was trying very hard to be impartial which is why he gave up being moderator at my forum, but can anyone except Mr. Amano be at all impartial when the majority of the pictures in the contest were displayed and talked about in this forum, my forum, Planted tank, Aquatic Quotient, Age of Aquariums and other forums months before the contest?


 <<

It certainly sounds like Phil did it. Amano hadn't seen any of these tanks, and I only signed up for this Forum yesterday. I did not see ANY of the tanks on this or any other forum before the judging. There are a few that I recognized from prior years. (one, I privately told the owner is not in as good shape this year as it has been in the past<g>) But, after years of judging horse shows, where we see the same animal show after show, year after year, I feel quite confident that I can judge an entry based on merit rather than who it belongs to.

That leaves Ricky. Personally, I think that Ricky also has the integrity to judge fairly whether he has seen the tanks before or not. There have been people that I've disagreed with a LOT more than this year's group of judges, but NEVER have I felt that the judges have not acted with honor and integrity.

Karen


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

Judging and assigning points and winners might seem easy, haha, not even.

Which is why I do not do it.
But bully for those that do.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## skylsdale (Jun 2, 2004)

I'm always disappointed with the biotope section. I did like the first place winner's tank...but that was about it. Everything else was a Dutch or Amano style tank, only they used plants from the same continent. Biotope implies specificity...and I never get that from any of the submissions in this section.

Also, I absolutely don't understand why biotope and Amano style ("nature") tanks have been judged in the same category. IMo, they are the complete antithesis of each other.


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

I wish I'd seen the article from Stephen M in the most recent issue of TAG before judging the contest. From the information I was given I got the impression that he was trying to recreate that hillside in the photo he sent. Had he submitted one of his TAG photos that showed a detail of a pool I would have had a much different impression and would have scored the tank a lot higher.

As for judging Amano style and true biotopes together it comes down to perception. For most folks what Amano does is the epitome of recreating a natural environment and see it as a biotope. Others have only limited information to go on and enter the best biotope they know how to. For example, someone reads multiple places that SE Asian aquatic soils are rich in clay and iron so they use Flourite thinking that it's the best option available even though it's really not. The only way Biotopes is going to improve is for folks to enter as many super specific aquascapes each year, whether they're aquascaped "attractively" or not. Changing the criteria scores to reflect accuracy and realism over beauty of [traditional] aquascaping would help too.


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