# Need help with this hair type algae...



## Kaieisis (May 17, 2008)

Hi guys.
I been battling this algae for a while now and cant seem to figure out whats causing it to grow.
The ferts i use are:
Flourish excel
Flourish iron
KNO3
CO2 (pressure)
30gal tank
2 x 96watt lighting ( i just use 1 bulb unless the plants need more light )
Fluval 405
External UV Sterilizer

I havent found anything that can kill it either.
Tried Direct Excel dosage (w/needle syringe)
H2O2 w/syringe

ANYTHING someone can recomend will be helpfull.
Thanks guys...im glad to be part of this community.


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## ranchwest (Jul 17, 2005)

When I dosed Excel and Fleet enema, the hair algae in my tank went away.


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## Kaieisis (May 17, 2008)

Waht was your excel dosage?


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

looks like thread algae. I'll say what my solution was. IN my 55 i used 4 flag fish, and it was gone in 24 hours.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

If you use excel, just pour it in the tank (no need to syringe it) at the recommended first (initial) rate. Do that 3-4 days in a row.

Flag fish, black mollies (any mollies), and SAE's will eat that algae if you don't spoil them on flake food. 

-Dave


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

just dump in the excel it wont hurt your tank and if you over dose all it will do is destroy the algae


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## Kaieisis (May 17, 2008)

^ Ive tried the excel overdose and still not working.
I dont want to get too crazy with the doseage because i dont want to kill my fish.

anyone know what causes this growth in the first place?


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Kaieisis said:


> ^ Ive tried the excel overdose and still not working.
> I dont want to get too crazy with the doseage because i dont want to kill my fish.
> 
> anyone know what causes this growth in the first place?


A lack of something is the cause. I would guess not enough CO2 but since you don't seem to be dosing any phosphates, that would be my first guess. Without PO4 in your water, the plants may not be able to take up enough NO3. Given your light level of 3-6wpg I'd say that is a big part of your problem.

Get in there with a toothbrush and manually remove as much as you can then start a balanced dosing routine that includes some PO4. The algae may get worse before it gets better so keep your toothbrush ready


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

With a high light intensity the plants try to grow very fast, needing lots of all of the fertilizer elements in order to do that. Not having phosphate means they can't grow fast, nor use the other fertilizers well. So, the less than healthy, growing plants, with the high light, encourages algae to start.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Kaieisis said:


> ^ Ive tried the excel overdose and still not working.
> I dont want to get too crazy with the doseage because i dont want to kill my fish.
> 
> anyone know what causes this growth in the first place?


Excel and downoi DO NOT get along. Excel will kill downoi. I would be careful with that.


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## _chicken_ (Oct 7, 2007)

Tex Gal said:


> Excel and downoi DO NOT get along. Excel will kill downoi. I would be careful with that.


That has not been my experience at all. In my 2.5 gallon nano I did both diy co2 and Excel for awhile, and the downoi went nuts!


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Tex Gal said:


> Excel and downoi DO NOT get along. Excel will kill downoi. I would be careful with that.


This statement probably would have been better written as "Downoi does not react very well to Excel overdosing". I have killed Downoi by overdosing Excel but I have never dosed Excel normally to a tank with Downoi in it so I would still use caution based on Tex Gal's experience.

People also claim Excel will kill Valisneria species...again, maybe so if overdosed, but I have dosed it on a daily basis (Gluteraldehyde actually) with no adverse effects to Valisneria species.


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## jmontee (Feb 7, 2008)

Kai, I think that on top of the ferts/PO4 missing the lighting is a big issue here. I don't know of a situation where anything but very specialized plants will need more than 3.2wpg. 6wpg is definitely way overkill. IMO adding the correct ferts and 96W on for 8-10 hours a day should be more than enough for most planted tanks. A drop checker would also be important so that you know you have 30ppm of CO2in your water. Check out he fert stickies and read about EI dosing and PPS dosing. These are really simple and help to get a good balance in the tank, this should help with the algae. Also som algae eating fish, otos are my favorite, should help.

Also forgat to say that amano or other types of shrimp do really well with this type of algae.


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## Kaieisis (May 17, 2008)

thanks guys.
The downoi doesnt seem to be getting hit by the excel overdose.
Its been over a week now and the hair algae seems to be "under control" but not gone.

I have since, cut my lights to 96watt @ 8-10hours.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

MatPat said:


> This statement probably would have been better written as "Downoi does not react very well to Excel overdosing". I have killed Downoi by overdosing Excel but I have never dosed Excel normally to a tank with Downoi in it so I would still use caution based on Tex Gal's experience.
> 
> People also claim Excel will kill Valisneria species...again, maybe so if overdosed, but I have dosed it on a daily basis (Gluteraldehyde actually) with no adverse effects to Valisneria species.


Matt that is exactly what I meant. I guess I was not specific. Sorry!


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## captain_bu (Dec 13, 2007)

I have Downoi and Vals in my tank that both grew really well with daily 2x Excel dosing and EI dosing. I started injecting pressurized CO2 about 2 months ago and they both continued to do well. I did a 3 day black out recently to try and kill off some mild hair algae before it got worse. 50% water change each day and dosed Excel per label instructions for a big water change which meant I was doing a 4x dose. No CO2 or ferts during the blackout. It did not kill all the hair algae but it definitely did a number on my Downoi, most of the plants melted. Vals took a slight beating but nowhere near as badly as the Downoi. So, my take on both of these plants is that yes they can both acclimate to and grow with Excel but you do have to be careful about overdosing with them. They are both species that I would definitely not syringe Excel directly on the leaves of to try and kill algae.


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## Kaieisis (May 17, 2008)

Update

Well i stopped the excel overdose and the hair algae started to grow again.
So does that imply that i need to up my co2 output?
My nitrate level is around 20ppm and that doesnt seem to affect the algae growth at all...at 5ppm-20ppm its all the same.
So, co2 is my next test.
Currently (30gal) my co2 is at about 2 bubbles per second with a glass diffuser. Is that too little co2?


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

How much Excel are you adding and have you started adding any phosphates yet? It seems by your response, the Excel did at least stop the algae from growing so it sounds like you either didn't dose enough or your plants are still limited by the lack of PO4. Also, you may need to slightly increase your CO2 level. 

Bubble rate is not a very good method for determining how much CO2 you have in your tank. It is a good way to get close but diffusion methods and many other factors affect the amount of CO2 that gets dissolved in the water. How do you get the CO2 into the tank?

I still think it is more than just one thing causing the algae in your case. I would up the CO2 slightly, maybe to 3bps (keep an eye on your fish for signs of too much CO2) and start adding a phosphate source to your tank. The combination of those two things should help you start to get rid of the algae.


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## Kaieisis (May 17, 2008)

MatPat said:


> How much Excel are you adding and have you started adding any phosphates yet? It seems by your response, the Excel did at least stop the algae from growing so it sounds like you either didn't dose enough or your plants are still limited by the lack of PO4. Also, you may need to slightly increase your CO2 level.
> 
> Bubble rate is not a very good method for determining how much CO2 you have in your tank. It is a good way to get close but diffusion methods and many other factors affect the amount of CO2 that gets dissolved in the water. How do you get the CO2 into the tank?
> 
> I still think it is more than just one thing causing the algae in your case. I would up the CO2 slightly, maybe to 3bps (keep an eye on your fish for signs of too much CO2) and start adding a phosphate source to your tank. The combination of those two things should help you start to get rid of the algae.


Thanks for your response.
I'll up the co2 rate and see. Im using a glass airstone/diffuser for the co2 so maybe thats not doing a good job.
I really want to get some PO4 but Oahu (hawaii) isnt the greatest for finding aquarium supplies and i havent been able to find any yet. If theres something i can find in a hardware store i'll be glad to take advise.
I do have a phosphate test kit; what should the levels be at?


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

I'd suggest 1.5-2ppm of PO4. If you can't find KH2PO4 in HI, you can always use Fleet Enema (not the sodium or mineral oil type  ). You should be able to find it at WalMart or any pharmacy. If my memory is correct, 1ml of Fleet Enema will give you about 1ppm of PO4 in a 30g tank. When you first add the PO4, especially if you have a very low level of PO4, you may run the tank out of NO3 fairly fast so keep an eye on your NO3 levels.


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## jmontee (Feb 7, 2008)

Kai,

Will Rex Grigg not ship to Hawaii? He sells the full line of ferts that you will need. You should also get a drop checker to test your CO2. Pet Smart may have the red sea drop checker and you can order the 4dkH solution online. I think that is really the best way to do it. I would also suggest a CO2 reactor which Rex Grigg's sells also. Anyway I hope that everything gets taken care of very soon.


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## Felf808 (Mar 21, 2006)

jmontee said:


> Kai,
> 
> Will Rex Grigg not ship to Hawaii? He sells the full line of ferts that you will need. You should also get a drop checker to test your CO2. Pet Smart may have the red sea drop checker and you can order the 4dkH solution online. I think that is really the best way to do it. I would also suggest a CO2 reactor which Rex Grigg's sells also. Anyway I hope that everything gets taken care of very soon.


Rex does ship to Hawaii. You should also watch the temperature in your tank because it's been really hot with the kona winds and all. I had to get a chiller because with fans running 24/7 I was losing 1+ gallons a day with each tank and now everything in the tank with the chiller is happier except the algae


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