# NH4 and Algae



## cS (Jan 27, 2004)

All else equal, is it true that all algae are caused by the presence of NH4? If so, then if I were to add an NH4-remover (such as Amquel, Prime, etc.) _*daily*_, then I should not have any algae?


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

I thought only green water is caused by NH4. Otherwise, it would be too easy, a fishless tank can easily be kept totally algae free then.


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

All I can say is that the only time I have had an algae outbeak is when a) I stirred up the substrate (no fert tabs) or b) did a massive hacking on the plants drastically lowering the plant load.

Both of these are consistant with NH4.....While Amquel etc bind NH4, I wonder if it is still algae available even though it is no longer harmfull.


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## JLudwig (Feb 16, 2004)

One should also see a difference between prime/amquel (which binds NH3 by some magic) and an old sodium thiosulphate type dechloro (just cleaves the amine bond... "hypo" commonly). Seachem claims to have bound NH3 in its nitrogen formulation, perhaps the same way prime locks it up? Cleary a huge blast of NH3 will be nastly, I usually get green water though and not hair algaes. GW is easy to treat with UV and tends to kill BBA so its a round about way of getting rid of BBA if you have the right toys 

Jeff


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## cS (Jan 27, 2004)

shalu said:


> I thought only green water is caused by NH4. Otherwise, it would be too easy, a fishless tank can easily be kept totally algae free then.


Aside from fish, NH3/4 are produced by the decompostion of detritus among other things (i.e. snails [smilie=k: ). Regardless, Mr. Barr has long held the belief that NH3/4 is the trigger that algal spores use to determine when to grow. From reading Mr. Barr's many posts, I am under the impression that he is referring to all algae species (or rather a whole lot of them?). Whether or not that is true, I honestly cannot say; which is why I made this post because if we are working under the premise that NH3/4 causes algae, then their occlusion should prevent algae outbreaks.

I thought this would be a simple enough experiment to run since no "real" effort would be required...or so I thought until Gomer raised this important question:

[quote=Gomer]While Amquel etc bind NH4, I wonder if it is still algae available even though it is no longer harmfull.[/quote]
My initial thought is NO because Amquel (and probably any other dechloraminator) binds the NH3/NH4 as aminomethanesulfonate (H2NCH2SO3). This is a large complex molecule (an assumption based on nothing more than "It looks complicated" ) that I do not think plants or algae can uptake; unlike simple ions like NH4+, NH3-, and NO3-. I think the bacteria in our filter must first convert the complexed NH3/4 down into NO3 before the plants and algae can remove it from the water. Of course this is just my assumption, since I cannot find any reference on Google concerning plants using any other nitrogen source aside from those derived from NO3 and NH3/4. Experts PLEASE correct me.









Like shalu noted earlier, if NH3/4 is the sole cause of algal blooms, then it is just "too easy". It sure does seem that way and I would think this angle would have been explored by more experienced hobbyists but I can't find any reference about it on Google, APD, etc. Nonetheless, let's try to see if NH3/4 is the sole cause of algal blooms. If we're lucky, then I can finally rid myself of these algal nuisances that's infesting my tanks. If not, then at least we can expand the hobby's body of knowledge.

---

*Anyway, here is my proposal. Please provide some feedback.*

The active ingredient in Amquel and many others is sodium hydroxymethanesulfonate (HOCH2SO3Na), a chemical I am recently able to acquire dry.







The amount everyone doses after a water change is enough to neutralize approximately 1 ppm of NH3/4 (bottle's instruction). So I am thinking of dosing enough to neutralize 7-10 ppm NH3/4. HOCH2SO3Na is nontoxic in high concentrations and remains in solution until it is all used up.

_*Assumption 1:*_ H2NCH2SO3- is unavailable to both plants and algae until reduced to NO3- by the bacteria.
_*Assumption 2:*_ While I wish that I'm not too cheap to buy a NH3/4 test kit, I unfortunately am. I am guessing that there's no way for NH3/4 to be produced by more than 1 ppm per day.

Does anyone see any flaws in this proposal? Thank you so much for any feedback.


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## Simpte 27 (Jul 16, 2004)

Wouldn't the conversion of NH4/NH3 to NO3- result in a lowering of KH? NH4 = NO3 + H? I'm assuming the conversion draws O out of the water and the leftover is H ions.


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