# New El Natural tank - what to expect?



## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

Hi guys, 

I've set my first 20L El Natural nano tank a week ago. Here's the setup: 

Substrate: 1 inch of organic pot soil (no artificial fetrilizers added), plus 1 inch of 1-mm gravel on top;
Light: 6W LED Aquael Plant light (540 Lm); 
Water movement: Aquael Pat Mini filter, minimal flow. 

Plants: Mostly fast-growing stem plants (hornwort, Ludwigia repens, Cabomba, Bacopa caroliniana), some "challenging" plants: Alternatera reineckii mini, Pogostemon helferi, Rotala macrandra, Cryptocorine parva; floating plants: duckweed. I plan on adding some more interesting plants as soon as the tank has established. 

The plants took off nicely, I saw some growth every day: new roots and new branches. I had to prune the hornwort a few days after the launch because it became too bushy. 

However, my perception is that the growth is slowing down. As far as I understand, it's a normal process of plants getting adapted to the new low-co2 low light environment, am I right? I also started to notice a fine layer of green dust algae on the tank glass. Again, I perceive it as a process of the tank settling in, so I don't panic about it (well, a little bit maybe, but I'm trying to control my perfectionist self). 

There are no animals in the tank yet (apart from a few tiny snails that sneaked in with the plants and a couple of unidentified fish babies). The test kit now shows all zeros: ammonia, nitirite, nitrate, phosphate - all zeros. Is it ok? I just wonder that I've put a rich substrate into the tank, so I expected some of the parameters to be waaaay bigger. So far, I only have the increase in GH: my tap water is 4 dH, tank water is somewhere between 5 and 6 (the soil contained limestone additive).

So, my newbie questions for the experienced people are: 

1) Is it ok that the plants took off very fast, and now are slowing down? 
2) Is it ok that I have some GDA on the glass, or I should start doing something about it? 
3) Is it ok that I have zero of nutrients in the water column, according to the tests? 

In your experience, what should I expect next? Ms. Walstad in her book writes that the soil takes some time to take off: should I expect some sort of explosion in the future? My concern is that I plan on adding snails and shrimps in a couple of days (as long as my ammonia/nitrites readings are safe), should I expect some sort of "soil-induced chemical inferno" soon that can be dangerous to the critters?

So many questions  I hope you could clarify these things for me.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Welcome to APC! I don't use the El Natural method on my tank, so I will let others respond to your questions.


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## kafkabeetle (Oct 11, 2011)

I usually add Malaysian trumpet snails right from the get go in my tanks, which are also soil capped with sand. They help with inevitable algae outbreaks and keep the substrate healthy by gently burrowing and preventing gas buildup. Algae is definitely healthy and to be expected. I only remove it if it's majorly blocking light to the plants, as in my experience it will pass. Could be excess nurtrients in the water column from planting or just that the plants haven't started growing as efficiently as they will just yet. When their roots are established and they are settled in you can expect them to mostly outcompete the algae. I still have some but my cherry shrimp appreciate it.

I don't really know about huge growth spurts that stop but really any tank will go through a lot of different stages before it gets mature and stable. I think I got this from Diana's book but I can't exactly remember...one reason it is good to start with many different types of plants is that some release allelochemicals that inhibit the growth of other plants. After a few months they work out their "allelochemical disputes" and some plants might die for this reason or just not being especially suited to your unique setup, then hopefully what is left will thrive.

I started enjoying this hobby a lot more when I learned to relinquish some control and let things become what they want to become.

I think your water parameters are fine, you will just want to check them again when you add livestock and make sure they are staying fine. And you could still do a fishless cycle if you want, adding pure ammonia to simulate what your future fish will release.


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

@kafkabeetle, thanks for the tip with Malaysian trumpets. Don't they mess up the soil and the cap by constant digging? 

I'm a bit concerned about the zeros of essential nutrients: NO3 and PO4 in the water column. I believe they'd come with the fish food and waste in an established tank. However, I'm not going to add any fish until these tiny fry babies grow up a bit (I'm trying to keep them now, there are 2 or 3). So the only animals I'm going to add soon are snails and a few Amano shrimps. I don't think they'll create a significant bio-load to raise N and P levels. 

I wonder should I think about adding some NPK fertilizer until I add fish? Last tank I set up was very high-tech EI, and zeroing one of the nutrients would be an alarming signal for me to start dosing more. Is it the case for low-tech tanks too? I kind of expected that soil sediment would keep reasonable NO3/PO4 levels at the start.


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## kafkabeetle (Oct 11, 2011)

I don't even measure nutrients like that and never add anything. That's high tech stuff lol I prune and occasionally check nitrate and change a little water once a month, that's it. I'm only assuming because I don't take these measurements but those nutrients are supposed to stay mostly in the soil, right?

MTS are slow and fairly small. Their movements do not disturb anything. They are beneficial.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Good advice from Kafkabeetle. One of principles of the Walstad method is to keep the nutrients in the soil substrate and use fast growing plants to remove them from the water. It sounds like this is working for you! The initial growth spurt usually lasts longer than a week, I suspect you will see fast growth again soon.

If you are concerned about anything, do some water changes. Otherwise just enjoy the tank.


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

Thanks guys, I'm probably worrying too much. Patience is the crucial factor, I guess.


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## kafkabeetle (Oct 11, 2011)

I think it is! But if you prefer a faster growth, more refined type of system, there's no reason you can't use the higher tech method you've have success with. I don't get super fast growth and that is what I prefer because I don't want to prune every week. But some people like frequent prunings where you can shape everything how you like it, which is totally valid too. My tanks look pretty wild lol. But I come up with usually very low or no nitrate (mainly due, I believe, to the many emersed houseplants I grow out of the top) and I get a lot of peace of mind knowing it'll just keep trucking along without me for at least a month (maybe longer in an emergency) without any intervention. I really like that there are a lot of ways to do this hobby to fit your lifestyle and desires.


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

@kafkabeetle Nah, I set this tank up specifically to keep it low-maintenance and to test out the El Natural method (and myself in this method, haha). It's just that I forgot how slow the plants can be. Also, it's a bit of a challenge for a recovering control freak like myself to rely on the soil substrate that I have no control of and have no idea what it contains. 

I assume that the soil takes off slowly, so it can take a few weeks for the effects of the soil substrate to show up. Am I correct?


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## kafkabeetle (Oct 11, 2011)

I mean, what effects are you hoping for?


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

kafkabeetle said:


> I mean, what effects are you hoping for?


most likely nutrients and promotion of growth he is referring to.


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

DutchMuch said:


> most likely nutrients and promotion of growth he is referring to.


The steady (though slow) growth, I guess is what I expect. I mean, what makes a difference starting a tank with the soil substrate vs. bare gravel? 10 days in, I can't see the diffference yet, apart from tannins. I know I need to wait, too early to make any conclusions.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

tin-dandelion said:


> what makes a difference starting a tank with the soil substrate vs. bare gravel?


if only you knew 
lmao
Unfortunatly im to busy rn to explain sadly, may-b later


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## kafkabeetle (Oct 11, 2011)

10 days is nothing, give it time. In bare gravel plants putter out with deficiencies after a few months (in my experience in my first planted tank with just bare gravel). I've never kept a high tech tank but my gut is telling me you will never get the same growth levels in this tank that you were getting in your high tech ones. Low tech is about long term stability much more than it is about stupendously lush and speedy growth. What you are describing sounds just fine, a perfectly healthy start and what you can expect from this type of tank. My 8 gallon bowl that has been running for 3 years with primarily vals (and emersed plants on top) in it has seen the vals spread by wrapping around the tank slowly, what looks like about 3 times. So one rotation around per *year*. But my ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings are all 0 and my livestock is thriving and those are how I measure success. Not by the speed of plant growth.


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

Ok, I asked for effects, I got them  

Before the weekend, I made the very first big water change (50%), mainly to reduce the yellow tint, and then went away until Sunday. On Sunday evening, when I came back, I saw that the bush of my Cabomba, which was just fine on Friday, is covered with a thin layer of BGA  There are also small traces of BGA on some other plants. 

I don't want to go with antibiotics, so I'll try to deal with BGA by removing it with the toothbrush. Never had BGA before, so a bit puzzled what caused the outbreak. Could it be a water change? If so, then why? My tap water is soft, neutral, and almost void of anything (I live in Helsinki, Finland, and the cleanliness of the tap water is a matter of pride). 

I've also brought in 5 Amano shrimps and 2 nerite snails, hope they'll help with the overall tank health, if not with BGA (I don't know who would eat this devilish thing).


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

BGA can be a result of too little nitrates in the water. When you did a 50% water change you reduced the nitrate concentration by half. It is possible that you caused the BGA to start growing. If I'm right you could dose about 20-40 ppm of nitrates (potassium nitrate) and perhaps kill the BGA. That is what I would do.


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

hoppycalif said:


> BGA can be a result of too little nitrates in the water. When you did a 50% water change you reduced the nitrate concentration by half. It is possible that you caused the BGA to start growing. If I'm right you could dose about 20-40 ppm of nitrates (potassium nitrate) and perhaps kill the BGA. That is what I would do.


Yes, that's what came to my mind too. Another thing that bogs me also: can duckweed outcompete other plants in terms of nutrients, sucking out everything from the water? That's interesting, I'm doing an experiment by removing half of it (it was giving too much shadow anyways).

I removed all BGA I could with a toothbrush. There are still a few patches left, but I hope I disturbed it enough to suppress its growth. I'm actually not sure if it was BGA after all: it didn't smell bad, and I can't say it looked slimy. Rather, it looked like a gark-green thick spiderweb on top of Cabomba leaves. It also didn't progress much today: given how fast it appeared on the weekend I expected that today it would be much worse.

Nitrates are still 0, but for the first time I see non-zero phosphates: 0.5-1.0 ppm. Need to keep an eye on it, in case the soil decided to start leaking.

The plants are behaving strangely, I have to say. Pogostemon helferi lost its lower leaves, but the tips are green, and I see roots going from the stems, so I hope it'll cope. Alternatera reinickii mini: some bushes just melted over the weekend (they simply turned transparent, while maintaining the shape), other bushes are still fighting. Surprisingly, Ceratopteris thalictroides, which I expected to be the easiest, is sitting there doing nothing. But, I see it grows some roots as well.

Hornwort is growing well. Rotala macrandra, which I got as a tissue culture, is overshadowed by the hornwort and apparently is desperately trying to grow. At least, it's not melting.

Amano shrimps have done a good job cleaning the debris, and cleaned up Ludwigia from diatoms completely. Ludwigia is growing painfully slowly.

I'm now starting to wonder if the light is too weak. The tank came equipped with the LED light (Aquael Leddy Smart Plant) which has intensity of 540 Lm, according to the spec. That gives me around 28 Lm/litre, I assumed it was enough, but now I start to doubt.


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

Ok, so far, I feel I'm losing the battle against BGA. 

First, scraping it off has a major drawback: even though I removed big chunks, the small pieces of it still escaped and settled on other plants, and started to spread slowly from there. Worst case - they settle on Cabomba and hornwort, too hard to scrape them off. 

Second, bumping up the nitrates was a bad idea. Apparently, I had a case of nitrate respiration in the soil: after my nitrates went up to 20 ppm, I started to get non-zero readings on nitrites, as much as 0.5 ppm! Although the shrimps and baby fish didn't show any discomfort, I still decided to take action and did a few big water changes to bring nitrites down. Now it's around zero, luckily no victims. Nitrates are around 10 ppm. 

So what I have now is a tank with small patches of BGA here and there. Using eritromycin is off limits for me now, as in Finland you need to have a prescription to buy it (I could probably get it from the veterinary, but I'll leave it as a last resort). 

Good news is that most of the plants are growing. Hornwort is taking over the tank! I didn't expect it to grow so fast, actually, it seems I need to prune it almost weekly. So hope is still there. 

The plan of action for now is: 
1) Continue removing BGA patches manually;
2) Uproot hornwort, clean it up, prune and leave it float;
3) Clean up the filter sponge, increase flow;
4) Get some fast-growing plant and place it where hornwort was previously;
5) Don't prune duckweed unless it's contaminated with BGA. 

I think water changes actually provoked BGA (it all started after a big water change), so I'll try to keep them to minimum. During these days I read so much contradictory information about BGA, that I wonder how we manage to keep our tanks clean from it! 

Wish me luck guys, as I have no idea if I'm on the right track...


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## kafkabeetle (Oct 11, 2011)

I tried to look back and see if you already answered this but I don't see it. How long have you been leaving your lights on? Perhaps decreasing it might help?

I have only ever seen BGA once and it was growing in an air pocket in the substrate that was against the glass, so getting plenty of light. It never spread to the rest of the tank.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

tin-dandelion said:


> If so, then why? My tap water is soft, neutral, and almost void of anything (I live in Helsinki, Finland, and the cleanliness of the tap water is a matter of pride).


I think that's the basic source of your problem--water too soft or "clean" for plant growth. While you added limestone to the substrate to help with that problem (good move), a water change just puts your aquarium right back to softwater.

Until you get this problem under control, I would not be pruning (i.e., punishing) any plants like Hornwort that are growing well.

For that matter, why in the world do hobbyists prune any plants in a new tank setup? 

It would be nice to see a photo of this tank.


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

kafkabeetle said:


> I tried to look back and see if you already answered this but I don't see it. How long have you been leaving your lights on? Perhaps decreasing it might help?
> 
> I have only ever seen BGA once and it was growing in an air pocket in the substrate that was against the glass, so getting plenty of light. It never spread to the rest of the tank.


It's been on siesta schedule 5-4-5, also receiving direct sunlight from the window for about 2 hours in the morning. The artificial light is Aquael Leddy Plant LED lamp that gives around 500 Lm (it's about 26 Lm/litre for my tank). I'm still confused about LED lights, don't know if 500 Lm is too little/much for the tank.


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

dwalstad said:


> I think that's the basic source of your problem--water too soft or "clean" for plant growth. While you added limestone to the substrate to help with that problem (good move), a water change just puts your aquarium right back to softwater.
> 
> Until you get this problem under control, I would not be pruning (i.e., punishing) any plants like Hornwort that are growing well.
> 
> ...


Hello Ms. Diana, thank you so much for your attention! First, let me say that your book was a fantastic read for me, enjoyed the scientific approach and got a lot of new information. I believe the chapter on nitrate respiration saved my fish, because that was the only reason I decided to test nitrites after I tried to raise nitrates in the tank.

Yes, water softness is a concern. According to the official data, the tap hardness is 3-4 dGH, the tests I have (Sera) measure 4-5 dGH in the tank. Is it still too soft? I've got CaCl2 and MgSO4 arrived a couple of days ago, so I'll try to raise the hardness to 8 dGH in the next few days. Is it safe to do it in one go or better gradually over the few days?

Another concern is the temperature, we had a few very hot days, and the temp in the tank was 28-30 deg Celsius during these 2 weeks.

I'll take your advice and leave hornwort alone for now, only clean up the BGA spots. How do you guys deal with it becoming all dusty on the old parts?

Here's the picture of the tank.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6cbme5jy77u10kt/pic-2018-07-28.jpg?dl=0


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

Hi guys,

here's the update from my 20L tank. Last Saturday, following the advice from Ms. Walstad, I bumped up the water hardness with CaCl2 and MgSO4; the water hardness has been 6-7 dGH ever since. I immediately noticed the improvements in frogbit's growth: the only one I had (sneaked in with other plants) started to grow and spawned 2 children!

Bacopa caroliniana started to grow as well, I see new growth from the tips, although the old leaves are melting: I believe it was emmersed form that finally has taken off.

Cryptocorine parva started to grow new leaves, good sign but I was warned that it's really slow.

Still not much progress from watersprite and Ludwigia repens, but I suspect it's because they are completely shaded by the hornwort.

I've replaced most of the duckweed with Salvinia, it's easier to control.

The best thing during the week: BGA seems to be giving up! The patches on P. helferi I was concerned about have disappeared completely. Also, BGA has almost disappeared from the filter sponge. There are still some patches of it on the hornwort, but I believe it's going away too.

The downside, however. Hornwort has been growing like crazy, the tank is completely overtaken by it. I think it's now time to make the trimming, because the plants below don't get enough light, and the water circulation is suffering. My mistake from the beginning was to root the hornwort into the substrate (silly), which made it hard to control its growth. I think I'll remove it from the substrate and trim the old branches, leaving some newly growing branches float. To the free space on the substrate, I'll plant Hygrophila polysperma. There are also a few branches of Ludwigia plaustris red I'm going to add to the mix.

The mystery fish fry is growing, I tried to identify them and they seem to be X-Ray tetras. I wonder, however, that 5 tails of them would be too much for the 20L tank when they all grow up.

The trimming and water change is scheduled for tomorrow.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Yes, if the hornwort is shading the other plants too much, remove some of it. But it is doing a great job for you, removing excess nutrients and stabilizing the tank. If I read your posts correctly, you have four floating plant species: duckweed, frogbit, salvinia, and hornwort. As the tank matures over the next few months, you can gradually remove your less favorite species.


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

Yes, it happened that I experimented with different floating plants. Duckweed was from the very beginning, but it was a pain to manage, so when the opportunity occurred to replace it with salvinia, I did it. 

I wonder if there are good background (i.e. tall and thick) plants, which are also rooted, apart from Vallisneria. I don't like the way Vallisneria spreads and takes over the entire place, in my 20 liters that would be a disaster.


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## mysiak (Jan 17, 2018)

tin-dandelion said:


> Yes, it happened that I experimented with different floating plants. Duckweed was from the very beginning, but it was a pain to manage, so when the opportunity occurred to replace it with salvinia, I did it.
> 
> I wonder if there are good background (i.e. tall and thick) plants, which are also rooted, apart from Vallisneria. I don't like the way Vallisneria spreads and takes over the entire place, in my 20 liters that would be a disaster.


Is Salvinia similar to Duckweed (it just replicates itself and keeps the same size), or like Frogbit/Pistia (plant is growing in size and daughter plants are just a bit smaller than the mother plant)? I am looking for a bigger version of Duckweed as keeping tiny leaves of Duckweed in control is next to impossible  Pistia and Frogbit are just growing bigger and bigger, until they need to be removed/replaced.

I would say that some of Cryptocoryne and Echinodorus species can be considered "tall and thick" and with good root system, though they take ages to get going. They are also much less invasive than Valllisneria or Sagittaria, so that's a good advantage in long term. Maybe someone else knows about good fast grower, but I'm afraid that it will be either invasive or for "high tech" tanks.


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

mysiak said:


> Is Salvinia similar to Duckweed (it just replicates itself and keeps the same size), or like Frogbit/Pistia (plant is growing in size and daughter plants are just a bit smaller than the mother plant)? I am looking for a bigger version of Duckweed as keeping tiny leaves of Duckweed in control is next to impossible  Pistia and Frogbit are just growing bigger and bigger, until they need to be removed/replaced.


Salvinia is more like a bigger duckweed in that regard. It's also easier to move around as a single plant has multiple leaves and a thread-like stem. Take a look at the picture (attached). Each leave is around 5 mm, compare it to the piece of a tube in the picture (regular airline tube 4/6 mm).

I've found Salvinia much more convenient to manage than the duckweed, it also multiplies quite quickly and the roots are much shorter than the frogbit. In Europe, Tropica supplies it.


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

mysiak said:


> I would say that some of Cryptocoryne and Echinodorus species can be considered "tall and thick" and with good root system, though they take ages to get going. They are also much less invasive than Valllisneria or Sagittaria, so that's a good advantage in long term. Maybe someone else knows about good fast grower, but I'm afraid that it will be either invasive or for "high tech" tanks.


Well, the problem with Crypts and Echinodorus (which I'm aware of) is that as they get taller they also get wider. My tank is 20L nano-cube (25x25 cm at the basement, 30 cm deep), so there's not enough square space to accomodate them. I'd say the geometry of the tank leans towards stem plants, but I'm concerned I need a good amount of rooted plants to keep the substrate oxygenated.

Not the best tank configuration for the planted tank, but that's what I have to go with... The best solution I came up so far is to use Crypt parva as a foreground/midground plant.


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## mysiak (Jan 17, 2018)

Thanks, I'll try to source Salvinia then 

As a foreground rooted plant I'm trying to grow Echinodorus tenellus and for midground Echinodorus quadricostatus. My MTS dig them up every single time, so I'm trying the last resort option - I superglued them to larger pieces of substrate. Hopefully they'll be able to finally root properly. I will do the same for my background crypts tomorrow. Stupid snails..I love them though


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

Ok, so it's been 5 weeks from the launch, some conclusions so far:

1) The launch was quite successful - most plants rooted well and started to grow. Nice surprise was that some mystery fish hatched on the 3rd day, and the fry managed to survive in the new tank! Moreover, they managed to find the food and grow quite well through this initial phase. So now I have 7 or 8 fish in the tank, I identified them as X-Ray tetras. The biggest one is over 1 cm already, I'm feeding them brine shrimp now.

2) I didn't have any ammonia/nitrite spikes (other than those I induced myself by recklessly adding Tropica macro fert). Maybe the ammonia was removed from the soil, because I filled the aquarium at the beginning without plants, let the water stay for a day and then drained it. I believe that helped wash away easily soluble additivies.

3) I had the BGA outbreak after the 1st week, which receded mostly without my intervention. I only removed big patches of BGA with the toothbrush and made a few water changes. BGA tried to come back after that and I was preparing for a big fight, but after a few days it simply disappeared (even from the filter sponge where there was quite a plantation).

4) Amano shrimps and MTS are awesome! I love them.

However, there's also a negative point:

1) The plant growth is just too slow; for some plants it's next to none. They don't die, but don't show any significant growth either. Ludwigia repens grew a few millimetres since the beginning, watersprite just stays as it is, Pogostemon helferi is also struggling - loses its lower leaves, yet tries to branch. Well growing are the floaters (salvinia & frogbit), hornwort, and (surprisingly) Cabomba. Cryptocorine parva also starts to give new leaves, but I know it's slow by nature. 
Alternatera reineckii mini almost disappeared.

I have no algae - none whatsoever; not even on the glass. There's some GSA on Ludwigia repens, it came with them; they don't progress or recede.

I believe my stock light is too weak. It's 540 Lm by spec; but with floating plants and tanins in the water there's not a lot of light reaching the plants. Some plants started to lean towards the window nearby!

To test the light hypothesis, today I set up a floor lamp with 6W daylight LED light in addition to the stock lamp. It's not ideal - the light spot is narrow, but the tank is visibly much brighter. I also plan to prune the floaters soon, because they definitely block the light, esp. in the corners.

The brighter Chihiros light is on the way, but in the meantime I'll see if adding the light would bring any value.


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## mysiak (Jan 17, 2018)

I noticed that too much of fast growers, mainly floaters, can slow/stop growth of other plants in the tank. They basically suck up all available nutrients - in my case it was mostly nitrate and/or iron. If you have good water parameters (0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and zeroish nitrate), you might consider to start with gradual removal of floaters and Hornwort - keep just a few pieces of each. You will have more nutrients and also light for other plants. 

Or..you can feed more, that should provide nutrients as well


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

Yep, I suspect the same: hornwort gets a lot of light, as it floats near the surface, and grows like crazy. Ammonia, nitrates, phosphates are all non-detectable. 

I've started to slowly remove the hornwort a few days ago. I'm cautious not to remove a lot of it though, 'cause better the tank taken over by hornwort, than by algae


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Thanks for reporting your results so carefully, such as the effect of adding Ca and Mg to bump up water hardness. I never had much luck with _L. repens_ in my tanks. Your Salvinia looks impressive.

That's pretty cool about the baby fish.

For a small tank, you're gaining a great deal of experience!


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

Ok, time for a weekly update.

The experiment with adding more light has been quite successful so far. I see new growth in nearly all plants, esp. those that sit directly under the additional lamp. It's not an "explosion", more like a gradual take-off, but still it's a big progress from what I saw before. I see new growth in Ludwigia repens, watersprite, and Pogostemon helferi. Bacopa is also growing steadily. What I also noticed is that some plants: Cabomba and Bacopa are acquiring some reddish tint on the tips, probably because of increased light as well. Frogbit and Salvinia are multiplying.

Alternatera reinickii (well, the remains of it) isn't thriving, as well as Rotala macrandra. Hygrophila polysperma hasn't taken off yet, I believe it's still adapting (planted 2 weeks ago, though).

The filter started to "pass gases" at the end of the day, I guess it's because of the increased rate of photosynthesis. No algae at this point yet, although after the light increase I notice more green dust algae on the glass, yet too little to do anything about it.

So here's the calculation about the light. Initially I had a LED lamp of 500-something Lumen (Aquael Leddy Plant). I added one more generic LED lamp with 400 Lumen, daylight spectrum 6500K. The tank became much brighter visually. I think this tank can run on about 1000 Lm without problems. Can't wait for my Chihiros light to arrive!

The fish are growing, still on the conserved brineshrimp. I tried to feed them with the dried flake food, but they spit it out. I think I'll continue with the brineshrimp until it expires.

Today I've done a small water change, and removed some of the hornwort that was overgrowing and taking too much space. There are still a few branches of hornwort in the tank but frankly I think it's growing too quickly for this small volume.


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

Ok, time for an update on my El Natural tank.

For the past 3 weeks I ran an experiment with the increased light, which turned out to be very successful. All plants started to grow quciker, those that were slowly dying (P. helferi and R. macrandra) started to show new nice growth. Encouraged by this success, I ordered a new aquarium light that should replace my DIY setup: Chihiros A251. The light arrived a few days ago and now it's time to put it into action, which I did yesterday.

My first impression of the new light was disappointment, though. Visually, the tank was darker and "yellower" than with my DIY setup. That's ridiculous, because the Chihiros light by spec is twice as bright as my DIY setup: 2000 Lm vs roughly 900 Lm. I realized, however, that maybe it wasn't brightness, but the light pattern: my DIY setup included a LED lamp that was giving a strobe-like effect, casting bright light and deeper shadows, so the overall picture had more contrast. Chihiros, on the other hand, gives a smoother light, closer to that of the fluorescent lamps, due to many small LEDs instead of a single super-bright one. Also, the light seems to be diffusing by the water and the floating plants more.

So today I made a 20% water change (removed some yellow tint), and took away a bunch of the frogbit. The effect was quite positive: the tank is much brighter visually now. I miss the strobe effect, though, I think it gave a very nice sunshine-like impression and the picture was more interesting. Anyways, for the next week I'm running the new light at the old schedule to see what effect it has on the plant growth.

So far, I haven't lost any plants I had from the beginning. The worst is Alternatera reinickii "Mini": after initial melt, it hasn't yet recovered. However, there are new buds on the stems, so the hope is still there.

Rotala Macrandra, which I thought would die off, started to show new beautiful leaves during the last 2 weeks, so I'm very hopeful. I like this plant, but always was scared off to have it because of all rumours about it being very picky. Fingers crossed now.

Cryptocorine Parva seems to be accelerating: virtually all bushes grow new leaves, I'm waiting for it to start multiplying.

Overall, the growth is slow but steady, no algae problems so far.


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## kafkabeetle (Oct 11, 2011)

Looks good! If you like the look of the setup better with your old light you could either run both at the same or time it so that the old light is on only at your main viewing times if both at once is too much light.


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

kafkabeetle said:


> Looks good! If you like the look of the setup better with your old light you could either run both at the same or time it so that the old light is on only at your main viewing times if both at once is too much light.


I started to like the new light as I got used to it. Old setup wasn't meant to be permanent, anyways. 
Maybe later, when I get bored


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

Well, as I've been telling about the tank being problem-free, it decided to give me some work to do  

A few days ago I noticed that the water became a bit cloudy. Suspicious, I checked all the corners of the tank and found that one of my Nerite snails died in the corner. I removed the remains immediately. 

Then I was away for a few days and have just returned home. The cloudness seems to get worse  There's also a bacterial film developing on the surface. I thought that removing the dead snail from the tank was enough, but apparently it wasn't, so I'm having a bacterial bloom in progress. Not sure what to do about it, though. 

The shrimps and other snails seem to behave normally. The fish look a bit lethargic to me, but that could probably be because it's their normal sleeping time now. 

I'll do a water change tomorrow (maybe bigger than usual). I hope things will get back to normal soon, the cloudy water makes the tank look unhealthy. 

Did you guys have the cloudy water due to a dead animal in the tank? What should I do to help the situation?


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

Ok, so water change didn't help a lot - not that I hoped it would, but still  
On the other hand, it doesn't seem to bother the inhabitants, so I think I'll leave it for now. The cloudness is not severe, just slightly misty. 

In a couple of days, I plan on replacing the internal filter with a newly purchased HOB one, where I plan to put activated carbon, maybe that will improve the situation. Still, I'm clueless what can be the reason for the bacterial bloom. I suspect the dead Nerite, but I removed it 3 days ago, shouldn't things get back to normal by now?


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## mysiak (Jan 17, 2018)

I have never experienced a bacterial bloom, but not sure that it could be triggered by a dead nerite snail. Flaoting plants should be able to easily remove excess ammonia. Are they healthy and growing?

Also you're going to be discouraged from using an HOB filter in the Walstad tank (too strong surface agitation), but I guess it would be ok for a limited time. If you want to remove excess nutrients and "polish" the water, carbon probably won't help that much. Synthetic material like Seachem purigen (removes organic waste before it's breaken down) and/or ion echxange resin (selectively uptakes nitrite/nitrate and some other polutants) are much better at this and act really quickly. Both can be regenerated and used many times and they indicate their exhaustion visually. From what I've heard, once you go synthetic, you'll never look back at carbon


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

mysiak said:


> I have never experienced a bacterial bloom, but not sure that it could be triggered by a dead nerite snail. Flaoting plants should be able to easily remove excess ammonia. Are they healthy and growing?
> 
> Also you're going to be discouraged from using an HOB filter in the Walstad tank (too strong surface agitation), but I guess it would be ok for a limited time. If you want to remove excess nutrients and "polish" the water, carbon probably won't help that much. Synthetic material like Seachem purigen (removes organic waste before it's breaken down) and/or ion echxange resin (selectively uptakes nitrite/nitrate and some other polutants) are much better at this and act really quickly. Both can be regenerated and used many times and they indicate their exhaustion visually. From what I've heard, once you go synthetic, you'll never look back at carbon


Yes, all plants are fine, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are at 0 constantly.

As for HOB filters, I heard that if you keep the water level high it doesn't agitate surface too much, 
also a baffle made of a plastic bottle could help. The main reason I want to switch to HOB is that I want to free the space in the tank taken by the internal filter (even though it's quite small, in the 20L tank everything looks big).

Concerning Purigen: I considered this option, but I heard also it removes nitrogen from the water? I don't want it to compete with the plants, provided that nitrogen is always at 0 level in my tank, I guess all ammonium gets consumed by the plants. I'm afraid if I use Purigen it'll suck all that minimal ammonium and my plants will starve.


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## mysiak (Jan 17, 2018)

If everything's at zero, then no idea. Maybe someone who experienced these blooms could shed some light on it.. 

HOB is certainly more practical, much easier to fit with custom media. Which model is it going to be?

Effect of purigen is being said to be very similar to carbon with one main difference - purigen targets primarily organic waste (including tannins) and doesn't adsorb much else. Carbon uptakes not only organics, but also meds, ferts and possibly other beneficial molecules. Both limit conversion of waste to ammonia, so they are probably competing with plants (though it's not really clear to what extent). If you have zero nitrates already, then it might present a problem in a long term usage. You can always add it to your HOB filter for a couple of days to clear the water and then store it in a drawer (just don't let it dry).

Btw. I do not have purigen yet, but I plan to try it, just to see if it lives up to the hype


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

The filter is a simple cheap Chinese manufactured HOB called Dophin-H100 (cost me less than 8 EUR). Very basic single camera setup, it comes with a "carbon-impregnated" cartridge which I plan to throw away and put a fine sponge instead, as well as some real activated carbon. 

Haven't launched it yet, plan for the weekend. The bloom is still going on without a change for better or worse. I actually now don't know if it's bacteria or a mild case of green water. Hard to tell with the yellow tint in the water if the color is white or green.


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## mysiak (Jan 17, 2018)

Please let me know how this filter performs, I am on the lookout for a cheap ultra slim HOB filter, so curious how these chinese filters work in real life 

You might consider using UV sterilizer for the cloudy water, it is being said to be very effective. I have one cheap on the way to hopefully remove bacteria/viruses after few suspicious fish deaths.


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

mysiak said:


> You might consider using UV sterilizer for the cloudy water, it is being said to be very effective. I have one cheap on the way to hopefully remove bacteria/viruses after few suspicious fish deaths.


What sterilizer is it? I suspect I might need one eventually.


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## mysiak (Jan 17, 2018)

I have ordered this 11 watt submersible UV-C lamp (you can find similar products on Aliexpress or Amazon) for my 180 liters tank, it will be put in the heater chamber of my internal filter. However please keep in mind, that this type of sterilizer must NOT be put into the tank directly. It's designed for usage in sumps or big internal filters which have appropriate shielded area. Livestock will be damaged and die eventually if exposed to UV-C rays. The same warning applies to your skin and eyes. Some people use it as a night light (judging from Amazon reviews) and that's extremely wrong.

Finding an appropriate UV lamp for nano tanks is quite difficult, I would consider combining one of these with some weak water pump, or going with completely DIY solution (I've seen some nice combinations of HOB and simple UV lamp for example). Readily available products are usually focused on big tanks/external filters and can be quite expensive.


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

mysiak said:


> I have ordered this 11 watt submersible UV-C lamp (you can find similar products on Aliexpress or Amazon) for my 180 liters tank, it will be put in the heater chamber of my internal filter. However please keep in mind, that this type of sterilizer must NOT be put into the tank directly. It's designed for usage in sumps or big internal filters which have appropriate shielded area. Livestock will be damaged and die eventually if exposed to UV-C rays. The same warning applies to your skin and eyes. Some people use it as a night light (judging from Amazon reviews) and that's extremely wrong.
> 
> Finding an appropriate UV lamp for nano tanks is quite difficult, I would consider combining one of these with some weak water pump, or going with completely DIY solution (I've seen some nice combinations of HOB and simple UV lamp for example). Readily available products are usually focused on big tanks/external filters and can be quite expensive.


Thanks for the info! Yeah, UV for the nano-tank seems to be a huge overkill to me.


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## tin-dandelion (Jul 13, 2018)

Ok, time for a weekly update. 

I've been watching my bacterial bloom for a week now, and eventually I convinced myself that is not bacteria, but a good old green water bloom. From what I know, bacterial blooms are very quick to develop; in my case I see water getting murkier gradually on the course of the week. 

I believe there's a couple of reasons for the green water outbreak: 

1) the tank is overstocked: could be true, but there's nothing I can do about it right now (the new bigger tank is on the way); 
2) The light is too intense: possibly, the installation of the new brighter light coincided with the beginning of GW.
3) Dead nerite could have caused the ammonia spike that triggered the bloom. 

Still, the amount of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are zero according to the tests. The plants and fish are doing well, so I feel I have time to tackle the green water with different methods. The plan of action for the next week is the following: 

1) Water change around 50% (have to do a big one 'cause I'm moving the tank around); 
2) Set up my new HOB filter; it will run in parallel with the old filter for a while, then the old one will be removed. The HOB will have a pad with active carbon to deal with organics in the water. 

I'll see if it helps. If not, I've got a few more tricks to try.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

tin-dandelion said:


> Ok, time for a weekly update.
> 
> I've been watching my bacterial bloom for a week now, and eventually I convinced myself that is not bacteria, but a good old green water bloom.
> 
> 2) The light is too intense: possibly, the installation of the new brighter light coincided with the beginning of GW.


Could be simple GW since your N levels seem fine.

Note that when I switched to brighter (i.e., LED lights) in 2017, I got some annoying GW in a few tanks.

What solved problem is that I did a complete water change, put all tanks on Siesta Regimen, and replaced a "better-quality LED" (i.e., more intense light) with a cheaper brand. The cheaper brand put out one-half the PAR. No more GW!


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