# 200 Low Tech - set up help



## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

Hello all,

I am setting up a new 200 Gal (96L x 20W x 24H) all glass outdoor aquarium, which i plan to heavily plant. Equipment consists of a 400 GPH 5-ply Canister filter, no CO2, no heater (i live in the tropics), and will have max 100W lights + natural light. Source water is pH 7.5, GH 13, KH 7 (which will probably change once in the tank). Questions are:

1. Natural lighting: I can arrange it so that it gets sun from 1PM - 5PM. But i dont want it getting too warm... what would be a good/minnimum sun exposure in hrs. for low light plants, without it getting too warm and/or getting too much algae?

2. Bio Load: I'm placing a filter for both flow and to be able to safely increase the bio load. How much fish load could i be able to handle? 50", 100", 200" ?? (my preferrence is somewhere between 100-150")

3. Substrate: I will use mineralized soil, enriched with KCl. Topped with natural 1/2" dark gravel, plus sand in some places. What would be the benefits of a) regular fertile soil or b) high quality enriched potting soil? Can i make 'pools' of soil (ie where the plants will be rooted) and top it with sand/gravel, or is it absolutely better to cover the entire footprint with soil?

4. Maintenance: No way i'm doing weekly WC and fertilising regularly! does my scheme sounds like it could do well, with say, monthly 50% WC and 'some' fertilizing once in a while?

Thanks very much in advance.
Great forum!


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

I have a lack of experience with tanks outside, EI, or 200g.

What I can do well is fert. It's my passion right now.

First you'll want to find your self a good substrate full of nutrients if you're not going to fert. Sand capped mineralized soil is the easiest bet here. ADA AS will cost you about $250 for a 1-3 inch slope.

You could have fun with DIY drip dosing ferts with a small pump in the bottom of the reservoir for agitation. Never done it my self, but have frequently speculated on it as a good option for larger autonomous systems.

If that isn't your thing, keeping light low will be. Find ways to adjust your lighting through raising, lowering and shading. Light drives everything; all CO2 and fert demands. If BBA pops up, you'll be reducing your light rather than increasing your CO2 if you don't want to fert dose.

-Philosophos


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## Coralite (Nov 29, 2008)

You'll definitely want to stock the tank with a ton of fast growing plants right from the beginning and consider using a large UV sterilizer to reduce the inevitable greenwater condition you will get with rich substrate and tons of natural light.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Rich substrate ≠ algae unless CO2 or other nutrients are deficient. Most often CO2. Obscuring the light will help. UV sterilizers are more of a crutch than anything when it comes to algae. They're a nice treatment for disease. In both cases, UV is a treatment method, not a long term cure in and of its self.

-Philosophos


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## Supercoley1 (May 28, 2007)

Philosophos said:


> UV sterilizers are more of a crutch than anything when it comes to algae. They're a nice treatment for disease. In both cases, UV is a treatment method, not a long term cure in and of its self.-Philosophos


Totally agree. I removed mine. The UV will only remove algae spores that pass through the UV. enough will remain in the tank to grow if the parameters aren't correct.

Add to that you are well underpowered filterwise the UV will only add to flow reduction.

However being outside canopy or not I would definately have UV on it. It is going to be needed on the disease side of things. I would suggest going for a much more powerful filter on this tank though. Not suggesting you go crazy like some of us do but for minimal flow, non CO2 and low light something in the region of 1200lph.

Light is your problem here. 100W isn't low light IMO over a 200Ltr tank. Natural light definately isn't low light especially when unlike a pond where the light enters only through the water surface the light is going to come in from all four sides (and the top if it is open topped.)

I have no experience of outdoor tanks though. I position mine in my house to make sure they get minimal daylight 

AC


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## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

Philosophos said:


> *First you'll want to find your self a good substrate full of nutrients if you're not going to fert. *Sand capped mineralized soil is the easiest bet here. ADA AS will cost you about $250 for a 1-3 inch slope.
> 
> If that isn't your thing, keeping light low will be. Find ways to adjust your lighting through raising, lowering and shading. Light drives everything; all CO2 and fert demands. If BBA pops up, you'll be reducing your light rather than increasing your CO2 if you don't want to fert dose.


That's part of the question, I can easily get:
a) High quality top soil (fortified, ferts, rich in humus... somewhat costly)
or b) Regular top soil (natural dark soil, rich in minerals, unaltered... very cheap)

I could fortify either of them with KCl after i mineralize it... but the question is which would be better/safest to use. _*EDIT:* Not using KCl. Just got about 1kg of KNO3, I'll use some under the substrate instead of KCl_

As for the light, i'm thinking my limitants are the temperature generated from natural sun, and total energy consuption (i dont want to have too much over 100W)... if i could have healthy plants and fish, keeping these 2 under reason, i'd be pretty satisfied. In fact, i could even add some simple CO2 and/or ferts. I do find too much hassle and enslaving (at least for a 200G) EI dosing, frequent WCs, complex CO2 injection and heavy Wattage...

Thanks for the replies!


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

The climate of Dominican Republic should be tropical climate just like my country. Do you have the intention to make the tank a display tank? If that's your intention, I would say that it will be very tough because you can't control the amount of sunlight and there is a high possibility of the tank getting hit by algae.

Let me share my experience. I have an outdoor tank that I place at the balcony. It's exposed to daily sunlight and if it rains heavily, the rain water will splash into the tank. It's impossible to overflow though. In the tank, I have generations of swordtails and 2 Chinese Algae Eaters (CAE). I don't keep the CAEs for fighting algae. I keep them just for fun. There's no electrical socket near the tank (too dangerous to have one since the rain can splash in), so the tank has no filter, no air pump, no artificial light & no CO2 supplied. The plants are Corkscrew Vallisneria, Elodea and Hornwort (all are fast growing plants). I don't use any soil but I use Holland sand in the tank. The only fertiliser is fish poo. All of the plants grow like a jungle. I have to get rid of them every few weeks. The condition of the tank is very stable as I have been running this tank for at least 2-3 years now. 

Problem faced are constant outbreak of algae. During beginning of the year when the sunlight is very strong, the tank is often hit by green water. They will disappear by themselves around March. For the case of my tank, it has the annoying Cladophora algae that I can't get rid of. The algae causes the tank to look very ugly. So, it will never qualify as a display tank.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm not experienced with mineralized soil. I can't give tons of advice with this one unfortunately. I can provide a good link from a credible source though:
http://www.barrreport.com/co2-aquatic-plant-fertilization/5633-earth-worm-casting-nutrient-enriched-sediments-how.html?



f1ea said:


> That's part of the question, I can easily get:
> a) High quality top soil (fortified, ferts, rich in humus... somewhat costly)
> or b) Regular top soil (natural dark soil, rich in minerals, unaltered... very cheap)
> 
> ...


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

This might help. This is from the original source of the "Mineralized Soil" concept.

Tons of great information right here on APC!
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...-mineralized-soil-substrate-aaron-talbot.html

Regards,
Orlando


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## gr8nguyen1 (May 18, 2009)

i'm curios..i have a spare 40 gallon tank with stand that i was going to donate to charity. but the idea of placing it outside on my balcony is very intriguing. i would like to know more info. i live in southern california. summers sunny high temp is 80 lows high 50-60s. winter can be chilly sometimes cold. what do you think about putting the spare tank outside my balcony. what equipment would i need. anybody have any ideas


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## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

Supercoley1 said:


> However being outside canopy or not I would definately have UV on it. It is going to be needed on the disease side of things. I would suggest going for a much more powerful filter on this tank though. *Not suggesting you go crazy like some of us do but for minimal flow, non CO2 and low light something in the region of 1200lph.*
> Light is your problem here. *100W isn't low light IMO over a 200Ltr tank.* Natural light definately isn't low light especially when unlike a pond where the light enters only through the water surface the light is going to come in from all four sides (and the top if it is open topped.)
> 
> I have no experience of outdoor tanks though. I position mine in my house to make sure they get minimal daylight
> AC


For filtration I am having 400 GPH = 1500 LPH. But the tank is 200 Gal so your numbers might change... I dont mind adding an additional smaller filter or a power head for flow, or adding more plants. I'm not against high tech, but in my case i'd use it only for smaller tanks... otherwise its way too expensive and too much stock at risk.

The tank is outside, but it will be roofed... more like in an outdoor patio terrace. However, i will be using natural plants to cover a ceiling/wooden structure, so i can customize how much light it will get (will post pictures once i get home). But again, i pretty much have any ammount of light i need, the problem is: too much sun and the tank will flood with algae and temperature may well rise above 88F. Too little sun and the plants may need additional WPGs.

This will probably be an empirical trial and error thing, once the tank is filled w/ water and plants (i will take temp readings and adjust the shading as needed, then monitor the plants for healthy pgrowth w/o having to add heavy CO2 or ferts).

I wouldnt reccommend an outdoor tank (w/o a heater or chiller) if your ambient temperature drops below 65F or goes above 100F for extended periods... Here in the tropics, the temperature is consistetnly warm, but rarely goes outside 74F - 90F. But for instance, my indoor tanks right next to a south-facing large window are almost constantly at 82-84F during summer, and about 76-78F in winter.

Kind Regards.


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## Supercoley1 (May 28, 2007)

f1ea said:


> For filtration I am having 400 GPH = 1500 LPH. But the tank is 200 Gal so your numbers might change


Indeed they would  I misread it and assumed lph. lol


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

f1ea said:


> That's part of the question, I can easily get:
> a) High quality top soil (fortified, ferts, rich in humus... somewhat costly)
> or b) Regular top soil (natural dark soil, rich in minerals, unaltered... very cheap)
> 
> ...


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## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

dwalstad said:


> *I would use soil "B" (regular, cheap topsoil).* You don't want soil that's heavily feritilized.
> 
> *If you have fish in this tank, please leave out the KNO3.* The nitrates will be converted to toxic nitrites and cause major problems. KCl would not hurt and could possibly help. However, the soil and fishfood input may have enough K (potassium) for plants. I would not assume that your plants won't have enough K.


Good, i just got cheap top soil (actually it was free) and have begun mineralizing it...

So Nitrates can go back to Nitrites?? I will only add fish after the initial Ammonia and Nitrites go down to 0 ppm. If i leave the tank planted with the filter and at full sunlight, it should be pretty quick.

But since you mention it, my soil may already have enough K... to tell you the truth, i think this soil has everything. As if i leave a pile of it, it will get completely covered w/ weeds in 10 days. And fish food will contain K as well.

Another thing: i think mineralizing soil is actually a 'fast cycle' of the same procedure you use in your method. Instead of letting the soil cycle in the tank with the plants, at tank temperature, it will actually cycle outside, with only the nitrifying bacteria already in the soil, but at a much higher temperature and more oxygen. It is the same biological process. Would you agree?

Thank you very much for the replies!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Yes. The "mineralizing" that some hobbyists use and the initial cycling that my tanks go through are bascially the same as the composting of kitchen/garden wastes into soil humus. The processes involve the decomposition of fresh (or relatively fresh), plant-derived organic matter by a series of bacterial populations. Mineralizing and garden composting are probably faster since more oxygen is available to speed the decomposition process.

The goal is to end up with composted organic matter. It has had enough nutrients wrung out of it to make it relatively safe to put in the tank. If not, you just wait out the decomposition process in the tank. 

Good point!


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## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

Topsoil is getting mineralized... its a LOT so its taking some time.
In the meantime I am finishing up the stand (a concrete structure covered with natural rock, the same rocks i will use to aquascape), the wooden roof structure and the electrics.

Here's a photo of the type of a 'planted' roof (this is not my roof, but thats the idea). My plants (Thumbergia) will take some months to grow up, but in the meantime i will cover the roof with a black cloth, the kind used on plant shops to keep low light plants - allows moisture and air transfer, but no direct sunlight (dont know the name in english!)


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