# Fish memory



## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

I had the aggrevation of moving my 30-something aquarium across the room about two months ago. After a couple days I realized it was badly situated and had to move it again. :doh: After stalling for 2 weeks, I moved it another 2 feet to its current location. Both times I drained most of the water into holding containers leaving about 4 to 5 inches in the aquarium. I left all my plants and fish in the tank except a school of lemon tetra that I caught and moved to another tank (of course the darn tetra were determined not to be caught and this further upset all the fish). This left my 1 angelfish, 6 corys and 10 black skirt tetra in the tank while I swore and dragged the tank to its new location. :ballchain My angelfish was especially displeased (I know she barely had enough water to stay upright while I moved the tank) and continues to hide from me these many weeks later. The tank is moderately to heavily planted with a couple pieces of driftwood for added hiding areas so she has secure locations to use as retreats. The tetra are mostly back out and about and I rarely see the corys, as is usual. I do miss seeing my angel close up; right now she hides when I'm about 4-5 feet from the tank. How long do you think it will be until I resume my role as "Great Bringer of Food" and my role as "Horrible Bringer of Upheaval and Nasty Nets" is forgotten?  

BTW, should I ever be in the position where I need to move a tank again, I'll move the fish (at least the large ones) to a holding container so they can be more stable.


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## Wood (Jul 27, 2006)

Honestly it may take a long time. 

I once had a dwarf gourami that I moved from a 10 gallon into a 55 gallon. I had to chase him for about a minute and finally was able to net and move him. After that he ALWAYS hid in the plants whenever I approached the tank. If I wanted to watch him feed I would have to put the food in the tank and step at least 4 feet away or else he wouldnt even come out to eat. All of the other gouramis in the 55 gallon loved seeing me (they were introduced directly into the 55, never moved by me). That dwarf gourami never got over it 

I think that it is natural for a fish to get a good memory as far as fear goes. It keeps them alive in the wild. It is like the dock Snook down here in south florida that will not respond to any form of bait if you try to catch them.

Unfortunately given the fact that it didn't have enough water, watched you chase around tetras for a good while, and that the tank is only 30 gallons, it may be permanently scared of you.

Sounds like your Angel has irreversable post traumatic stress syndrome. 

-Ryan


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## southpark (Oct 9, 2006)

on the opposite end of the spectrum there are things you can do to build trust, one is a simple feed method, feed your fish directly from your hand, either your angel will get over it and eat and learn to not be afraid again, or it will go hungry.. i'm fairly certain it will take food eventually in this method

you can also spend more time with your hands in the tank, but not in a "doing real work" kind of way, but merely tidying up w/ slow and sure movements, to re-adjust your fish to your presence, don't chase them, or startle them, just place your hand in and adjust your plants or rocks gently and they'll learn you're not there to kill them all again..

i had a memorable experience the other day with my smallest shrimp tank, i stuck my hand in to clean some snails off and poke at the java moss arrangement and several shrimp glided up and rested on my fingers and palms and picked away at my skin and .. 

now this means either:

1. i need to wash my hands more!

2. they're completely accustomed to me sticking my hand in there and treat me like part of the non-threatening landscape

3. my shrimp are dumb as rocks and i shouldn't put them in with fish ever heh..

but try it, use tasty livebait or freeze-dried worms and hand feed, just hold your hand a little in the water with the food in your palm or from your fingertips and let the fish come to you..


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## bristles (Mar 7, 2006)

You may try to entice your skittish angel with something it loves, live food! My angels go bonkers over live grindal worms & live black worms, just a thought, maybe give it a try & see what happens.


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

Thanks for the idea southpark, frozen brine shrimp will cause her to come out even when I'm still near the tank (within 2 feet) so I'll give that a try. Maybe I should just stand by the side of the tank first so she gets used to me being nearby.

Where is a good place to get live food from? I only have Petsmart and Petco nearby and its not something they carry.

Another change I hadn't thought of before is the tank is now in front of a window instead of a wall, so that's probably spooked her further. Its a NPT and the plants are doing better with the morning light. However, she's probably still adjusting to having a view where it had been a secure hide away. I put the poor thing through a lot at one time so I'll just be patient and let her get used to me again as a non-threatening creature. 

On the other hand, those darn lemon tetra show no sign that I'm anything but a food source and they were actually netted and moved to new quarters. Figures, doesn't it? I haven't quite forgiven them for avoiding the pop bottle fish trap. I caught corys, an otto, and some of the black skirt tetra but the lemon tetra would have nothing to do with it even after not feeding anyone for 2 days. Darn fish. They at least are schooling a bit better in their new home and they are pretty, but I sure hope I never need move them again.


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## Mud Pie Mama (Jul 30, 2006)

I have a 75g tank and one time I did a TOTAL uprooting of all the HUGE plant mass so that I could catch and extract some EVIL Diamond Tetras out of the tank. I removed all of the inhabitants _except_ my 12 Lemon Tetras. They are such a rowdy bunch and so small, quick and light in color that I have such a hard time netting them so I left them in. It was so much work to do this reset I did step one in the pm and waited until the next day to re-plant. The Lemon Tetras were'nt the least intimidated by going from a tank with tons of hidy spots to a bare tank. An hour after I stopped the uprooting and netting I dropped in a slice of blanched zucchini and they were feeding and playing. All this to say, one of the most fearless fish I've got. Yeah, next time, they're the ones to leave in the tank.

Now, a few months ago I transfered my one Angel fish from my 46g to this 75g tank. I did this to better balance out the communities and bio-load. My Angel who was always the first one to notice me when I came to the doorway hid in the back corner and refused to eat for almost three days. Eventually she started to come out just to eat but then went back into the corner for most of the day. This went on for almost two weeks. HEY, I moved her from the smaller tank to a bigger tank, I expected her to be grateful, but NO! I almost think she was mad at me and pouting. Eventually it was the feeding routines which I think helped her remember and feel secure with her new home and me again. One of her favorites is shrimp pellets and I had her trained to come get them from my fingers because otherwise she looses out to the speedy Rainbows (46g) or now, Congo Tetras(75g). Now after a month she's glidding around again in all areas of the tank checking out the action and doing her wiggle dance for me when I come close. I think there is still hope and it can and does take more time than we imagine it should.


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## bristles (Mar 7, 2006)

That's to bad your LFS don't have live food, I know that you can mail order live cultures of many worms (probably not black worms) Grindal worm cultures are quite easy to maintain- index and all fish love them. In the back of "Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine" you can find vendors of these live foods .


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

Bristles, thank you! I'll have a look around for the Grindal worms, it sounds like they'd be a good treat for all my fish.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

I've seen all sorts of stuff here about how difficult it is to catch SAE's. I never believed any of it until......

I recently moved 3 of them from my 46g to my 180g. They always come up around feeding time and almost eat out of my hand. I used this trick to net two of them slick as can be. I was feeling pretty smug until it was time go get #3. It seems he became suddenly aware of my efforts. Any sight of me for 3 weeks and he would hide under the largest piece of wood in the tank. I finally caught the little booger after 2 hours of tearing the tank up.

As for tetras - they're not exactly the rocket scientists of the fish world. Chiclids - different story - they actually raise their young.


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## Skelley (Mar 4, 2006)

Maybe angels are just a sensitive species. I am having the same trouble with mine. I actually feel guilty.


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## toddnbecka (Sep 20, 2006)

Frozen bloodworms are also a great alternative to live food. Any fish that won't eat those has something seriously wrong with it.


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

Last night I stood by my tank after offering frozen bloodworms and my angel did come out and eat, keeping one eye on me all the time. I made very certain not to move and I didn't bend down to look her in the eye. I'm taking little steps. I have 4 other angels in 3 other tanks and I'm just so used to them being front and center, "wagging" for attention to let me know its time for me to feed them. This angel was never that bold, but I do hope to get her more comfortable with me.



guaiac_boy said:


> I've seen all sorts of stuff here about how difficult it is to catch SAE's. I never believed any of it until......
> 
> I recently moved 3 of them from my 46g to my 180g. They always come up around feeding time and almost eat out of my hand. I used this trick to net two of them slick as can be. I was feeling pretty smug until it was time go get #3. It seems he became suddenly aware of my efforts. Any sight of me for 3 weeks and he would hide under the largest piece of wood in the tank. I finally caught the little booger after 2 hours of tearing the tank up.
> 
> As for tetras - they're not exactly the rocket scientists of the fish world. Chiclids - different story - they actually raise their young.


Seems your 3rd SAE was a quick study in learning what you were about. My giant danio will do that as well, I can catch the first few without any trouble by using a big net and sweeping it through their school. After the first pass its mayhem and I have to take any hardscape out of the tank in order to catch the rest.

Concerning the tetra, I think some varieties just have a better instinct on where to dart. I kept having to evict black skirt tetra from my nets while trying to catch the lemon tetra.


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

Hi Catherine,

would it be possible to put one of friendly Angels in with Ms. Skittish? I got a new Angelfish, and, after a week in quarantine where it seemed like it was in sheer terror, I decided not to put it through another week (also, the LFS is excellent about fish health) so I put it in a newly renovated 30g. It was extremely shy. I'd planned to add my 1 yr old friendly "pig" Angel from a 20h, but wasn't ready to yet. Finally, I felt so bad that the newby was terrified of me that I added the old friendly one (easy netting - went to feed, swoop, into a bucket, acclimate, and swoop into the bigger tank). Within 6 hours, the shy one was mimicking the friendly one, and came out and got yummy food when I approached. Within a day, they were BOTH shamelessly begging when I approached.

I'm thinking if you put in a friendly Angel, it might have some influence.

Worth a shot! Sorry you had such an ordeal with the tank! 
-Jane


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

I used to have 3 angels together and the other 2 always picked on this one. I moved the other 2 to different tanks as they'd go after each other as well. I guess my other angels aren't so much friendly as very self-confident. 

I've noticed my scaredy-cat angel is much less skittish now since I've been getting her used to having me near the tank and since I've been staying nearby after I add food to the tank. I recently completely redid the tank from the substrate up and there was virtually no backsliding on her improved behavior even after I had to net her twice. I do have a school of about 12 black skirt tetra in with her and I think they help her feel more secure. I also made sure she had some fairly densely planted areas to hide in since the tank has an uncovered back to allow sunlight in. I don't think she'll ever be bold, but at least I'm able to see her more often now. 

I'm glad your angels are getting along well together. I do have one mated pair, but my other 3 all have seperate tanks since 2 are bullies. If I could be guaranteed of finding another friendly angel (or a nice male for her) I'd go for it, but I seem to pick the seriously attitudinal angels and I'm not prepared to set up another tank for another angel at this time. Not that I wouldn't like to but reality intrudes in my fond daydreams.


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## Indiana Gardener (Jan 29, 2007)

I think some fish are smarter than we give them credit for. When I had my Oscar years ago, I read that they were "smart". I decided to test it out.

I made a small white shelf to pace pellets on near the front of his tank at one end. At the other end were white pieces of paper with black block numbers.

He learned to count in a way and it only took him about a week with receiving a pellet for each correct answer. He would observe the pellets, swim to the other end of the tank and rub against the corresponding number.

Just to test him out, I would mix up the numbers out of order. He still got it and eventually got up to 5 and could distinguish the numbers easily without taking much time to make his choice at the numbers or making mistakes.

If anyone wants to try this, just start out simple with a choice between 1 or 2 and work your way up.

Now, all that to say... Given this amount of brain capacity, it could be a good long while before your Angelfish forgets about the ordeal if it's anything like my Oscar was.
Bye for now,


Indiana Gardener


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

WOW, that is one smart fish!

Yeah, my angels definitely recognize me, but get scared of anyone they don't "know". They actually got used to a BF I had - I encouraged him to feed them, and eventually they would "beg" from him, too! He was appropriately flattered by this attention from the Angels. 

I think I lucked out that the new one and the old one made "friends". I had had two that did get along nicely, and were probably just too young to mate, but one died, so I wanted to find a new mate. Unfortunately, I think I've got both females now, but the old one was so lonely she didn't care, LOL!

Sounds like yours is just a bit on the timid side. When I was growing up, we had a cat like that - EVERYone would beat her up, even our old calico geezer cat! A neighbor's rabbit escaped once, and even HE chased her across the yard! It was kinda funny. 

Sounds like you're rebuilding her trust though. 
-Jane


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

Jane, yes, I think she is starting to associate me with better things, it just takes a good long while to overcome a bad impression. The more timid the fish is initially, the longer it takes. Poor cat! That must have been a sight to see a rabbit chase a cat. In the same vein, my big cat Daniel stalks the neighbors beagle/poodle cross whenever he can. The poor dog is absolutely terrified of him. I keep my cats inside except when I'm out gardening, so the timing has to be just right for Daniel to spot the poor dog and scare it into cowering by its front door. Then he assumes a casual pose and preens, ever so proud that he's got the dog cornered. I always spoil his fun by going over, picking him up, and hauling him back to my yard with him swearing at me the entire time.

Indiana Gardener, it sounds like your oscar was quite a fish. I never would have thought of teaching a fish to count. Of course, the more you work with a fish (or any animal for that matter) the more impressive the results. I'll keep working to keep all my angels out and about.


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## Indiana Gardener (Jan 29, 2007)

I don't think he was really that special. I would think any Oscar, or other more intelligent, species for that matter, could be taught the same as long as it can be focused somehow around some natural behavior.

My Oscar's was his odd desire to act like a cat and want to rub against my hand. That's how I got him to select the number... by rubbing the back of my hand against the glass over the number to teach him which numbers went with what until he got onto it.

It took a week to teach him the difference between 1 and 2, and a couple months to get to 5. After that I got bored with it and didn't continue. It could be an interesting project though if someone had the patience on a long term basis.

He was also jealous of the dog and would bang into the glass every time she entered the room and we would pet her or play with her; trying to attack her through his glass with his mouth and gills flared. She never paid him any attention. Don't know where that hatred came from.

Fish can be odd at times and just as unpredictable as other animals.

I hope your angels will get back out and around soon. Some special treats may do the trick. A fish will usually do just about anything for food.
Bye for now,


Indiana Gardener


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

The jealous Oscar - how funny!

My Angels DO remind me of some of the cats we had growing up though. My Mom's cat would come over and sit on whatever you were trying to look at. If she was sewing, and had laid the cutting mat out with fabric and patterns, he'd come over and sit right where she was working, and then swing his tail dangerously close to the scissors. He did the same if we were clipping coupons out of the paper. If you read with a book in your lap, he'd sit on the book. If you removed the book from under him, he'd swoosh his fluffy tail up INTO the book, no kidding! Similarly, the Angels have an uncanny ability to get between my face and what I'm trying to do in the tank. Even if I put food in the far corner to lure them away, they're literally "in my face", LOL!

That poor cat of ours - the neighbor's rabbit often went on the lam, he was a big randy thing, and we believe he was trying to mate with the local bunny population. The little cat was sitting in the sun. The rabbit approached. She edged away. He edged closer. It went faster and faster until she was in a dead run out of the yard, with him in hot pursuit! How embarrassing for the cat!

CS, I can just picture your cat "swearing" at you as you cart him off!

I'm still chuckling about the jealous Oscar. Amazing!
-Jane


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Jane in Upton said:


> Sounds like yours is just a bit on the timid side. When I was growing up, we had a cat like that - EVERYone would beat her up, even our old calico geezer cat! A neighbor's rabbit escaped once, and even HE chased her across the yard! It was kinda funny.


My Aunty had a rabbit that chased her Irish Wolfhound around the garden! If it caught up to her it bit her on the nose or paw! Evil Rabbit!!! [smilie=e:


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