# Arrgggg.....green water



## Talonstorm (Feb 16, 2005)

OK, here is a major problem that is a first for me. I have a 55 gallon set up for several months, but with no fish or plants (water and eco-complete). I recently added 3 sunset sword fish, 2 otos, 3 amano shrimp, and planted it with $30 worth of eleocharis acicularis. The grass is spreading well, but in the last month I have gotten very bad green cloudy water. The water is not smelly, just a nasty cloudy green. The picture below was taken only 2 days after a 90% water change (gotta love pythons for making major water changes easy!). Initially the tank was clear, but it looks terrible again in such a short time. I am at my wits end. I stopped fertilizing (was using flourish, iron, excel, and trace), but still the green water.

Could the eco-complete be the issue (this is the first tank I have used it in, my other planted tanks all have flourite)?

If I diatom the bejesus out of it, will it come right back when I stop? I have my diatom filter in storage, but I will retrieve it if need be.

Would continuing with the big water changes every few days eventually cure the problem?

Would using RO/DI water help? I just got a filter because I need it for my reef tank, it isn't hooked up yet though because I am a plumbing retard, lol.

Please help!

Thanks,
Tina

Oh...the picture:









Tank Specs:
55 gallons
Ecocomplete substrate
Eheim 2215 canister filter with spray bar
temp 76 degrees F
Lighting: 130 W 6500 K and 130 watts 10000 K power compact - on for 10 hours daily.


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## Simpte 27 (Jul 16, 2004)

The diatom filter(or uv sterilizer) should clear it up in a cpl of days. It shouldn't come back unless you stir up the gravel replanting and releasing NH4.


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## bharada (Apr 17, 2004)

I would suggest running the diatom filter right after doing a larger water change so that you're not forcing the filter to trap too much particulates at once. Then add in as many fast growing stem plants as you can get your hands on. 

Water sprite, Wisteria and other Hygros can be dropped in with plant weights so you don't mess up you hairgrass fields. It'll also make them easier to pull them to trim or get rid of once the tank has settled.

I strongly feel that packing all my tanks with plants from the get go is the main reason why I've never had a GW outbreak.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

If your running 260 watts on a 55 gallon tank with that amount of plant mass iin a new tank you don't stand a chance. Your going to get lot's of algae. Consider yourself lucky that all you have is GW. Basically you have nothing to absorb waste at the early stages of the setup. In order to pull that off I belive you needed to use an established biofilter from another tank. Activated carbon would have helped as well since it absorbs nh3. 

I have a UV on my tank, because I too had a bout with GW and made the mistake of not having a mature biofilter in a thinly planted tank at startup.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Talonstorm said:


> Could the eco-complete be the issue (this is the first tank I have used it in, my other planted tanks all have flourite)?


The Eco is not the issue. The issue is probably due to the fact that you ran the tank for several months without fish or plants. The Eco has some bacteria in it to "help" with new tank syndrome but that is more than likely still dormant since you only recently added the fish



Talonstorm said:


> If I diatom the bejesus out of it, will it come right back when I stop? I have my diatom filter in storage, but I will retrieve it if need be.


In an established tank a diatom filter will take care of the green water and it will not come back unless induced. I can induce green water in my 75g by pulling up a large Crypt or a bunch of stem plants and not doing a water change. This works everytime for me.

I would guess that your greenwater was induced by the addition of the fish without an established bacterial colony in the tank. There was insuficient bacteria and very small amount of plant mass to deal with the fish wastes (NH3 and NH4). If you have another tank you may want to try adding some mulm from it your filter to get it seeded. You may even want to swap some media from another filter to the filter on your new tank.



Talonstorm said:


> Would continuing with the big water changes every few days eventually cure the problem?


WCs will lessen the density of green water but it will come right back. Doing a 50% WC would hypothetically remove 50% of the green water. It may look better right after the water change but it will soon come back, sometimes by the end of the day.



Talonstorm said:


> Would using RO/DI water help? I just got a filter because I need it for my reef tank, it isn't hooked up yet though because I am a plumbing retard, lol.
> 
> RO water won't help the problem either. You either need to add more healthy plants to help remove some of the NH4 as bharada suggested or get some beneficial bacteria into the tank.
> 
> ...


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Looking at your picture, I see that your tank is the perfect set-up for green water with fish, bright light, and a very small amount of plant biomass. It will produce green water forever that way. There is no way you can manipulate the nutrients to prevent the green water with the tank the way it is. Ways to fight the green water:

(1) Much more plant mass. Use rapidly growing plants. Water sprite is nice; grow it floating to shade the tank, and then plant it when the green water goes away. 
(2) cut way back on the light. Replace the 260 watts with a single 40 watt T-12 tube! Upgrade to two 40 watt tubes when you get more plant mass. When the tank seems crowded with plants, increase back up to the 260 watts. 

(3) UV sterilizer. Keep it running until the plants seem crowded. If you turn it off after the tank clears, the GW will come back. You never kill all the algal cells with the sterilizer.


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## JaySilverman (Jun 19, 2005)

You're lucky all you have is green water with that set-up. Add ALOT more strem plants and take out some fish. Wait a few months then slowly take out the stem plants and add more fish.


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## Simpte 27 (Jul 16, 2004)

Greenwater can be a blessing also. It prevents other algaes from growing and doesn't affect plant growth. Just unsightly.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Excellent advice above. Don't despair. Of all the algae types out there green water isn't the worst. Once it goes away your tank can be perfectly crystal clear. Generally speaking the plants and fish do just fine in it, even if it does look disgusting. Once your nutrients settle down and the tank gets a little more established it will clear on its own. Water changes do little. More plants, more plants. Don't forget the micro & macro nutrients. It might seem like more nutrients is the last thing you'd need, but you don't want any deficiencies slowing your plants down. Once a large plant mass starts to do well things will improve quickly.


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## Talonstorm (Feb 16, 2005)

OK, I am still battling this problem. I do not want to add any stem plants. The eleocharis acicularis requires high lighting, so I don't want to cut back on the lights either. The tank has been running for several months now, so the filter should be well established. I currently have 5 swords and 3 otos in fish. I have tried running the diatom on it after a 75% water change, but the green water persists. The plants have grown in quite well, but are growing more slowly than I anticipated. Would adding CO2 help? I see the advice to add a UV sterilizer, can this run all the time as suggested? If I cut the amount of light on the tank in half, will the eleocharis still thrive? Currently I am trying a blackout period of 3 days to see if that helps, so the tank looks like this:









I realize even if this does work it may only be a temporary cure. Again, I only want the grass in my tank, no stem plants. I have seen other tanks like this, so I know it can be done.

Thanks,
Tina


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Use the stem plants until the others have grown in enough to do the job. Then toss the stems or give them away.

There are a lot of people telling you the same thing here if you go back and read the thread. We've all been there. It's not too hard to cure if you do it right.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Talonstorm said:


> The eleocharis acicularis requires high lighting, so I don't want to cut back on the lights either.


It will grow faster with more light but it doesn't require high light to grow. In my 30g I tried hairgrass at 2wpg without CO2 and it all died. I added more hairgrass and CO2 and it grew in very well. That was 2wpg of normal output T-8 tubes without reflectors!



Talonstorm said:


> Would adding CO2 help?


#-oYou have 260w of light on a 55g tanks without CO2? #-oI think everyone must have "assumed" you had CO2 with that lighting level. I know I did. I would get some form of Carbon on the tank be it DIY, pressurized or Seachem's Excel. I wold also cut the lights by half if you decide to use DIY or Excel. A pressurized CO2 system would be cheaper in the long run, the Excel will be cheaper up front.

CO2 will not clear up the green water though. That is something you are going to have to filter out or black out. CO2 will make the plants grow faster which will help with excess nutrient uptake.


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## Talonstorm (Feb 16, 2005)

MatPat said:


> #-oYou have 260w of light on a 55g tanks without CO2? #-oI think everyone must have "assumed" you had CO2 with that lighting level. I know I did. I would get some form of Carbon on the tank be it DIY, pressurized or Seachem's Excel. I wold also cut the lights by half if you decide to use DIY or Excel. A pressurized CO2 system would be cheaper in the long run, the Excel will be cheaper up front.


 No Co2 yet. The reason I went with that much lighting was in part because I planned on adding it in short order. I actually purchased the regulator, diffusser, and pH meter to set-up pressurized CO2 months ago, but my work hours increased to like 60 per week :whip: and I haven't gotten a chance to set it up yet. I will pick up a CO2 tank on Monday and get it going asap. Does anyone have a suggestion on the type of stem plant I can use until my grass has grown more? I want something non-invasive, maybe something that wouldn't mind floating. Anacharis, ludwigia? Nothing too messy (like the needly plants).

Thanks again,
Tina


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Hornwort, hygro, Hydrocotyle leuko, Cabomba, Myrio, rotala rotundifolia, ludwigia arcuata - & many others.

These all grow very fast and will be quite easy to remove once you're done with them. If you give them a chance though, you just might like them enough to keep a few......


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Neither Water Sprite or Hornwort mind being floated. I could send you a nice handful of Red Root Floater if you don't mind paying for shipping. I have about half a 55g worth of it now and it will probably be full by Monday


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## Talonstorm (Feb 16, 2005)

OK, blackout period is over. As you can see:








the blackout eliminated the green water. For how long though?? I set the lights at 1/2 power (130 watts). I am also in the process of getting a bunch of red root floater for the tank (thanks MatPat!!). This week I will pick up a CO2 tank and attempt to set that up. Hopefully I can solve this problem for good!

Tina


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## Blazerfrs (Feb 3, 2006)

Sounds like you're right on track now. Once you get the CO2 up you should be good to go...


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## Talonstorm (Feb 16, 2005)

The current state of affairs:









As you can see, I now have CO2 in place. The 20 lb tank is going to last forever I think.  My dad is going to make me a cabinet to go beside my ghetto tank stand to hide the eheim and the enormous CO2 tank eventually. I am using a SMS pH controller also. Not to change the topic of the thread, but at what bubbles per second rate is a good start point? Also, any ideas on how to hide that ugly CO2 diffuser and bright yellow pH probe? Should the pH probe be located next to the diffuser, or across the tank? One more thing, what pH shall I use as my set point for the pH controller (the point at which the CO2 solenoid turns off)? I guess my real question is how low is too low in terms of pH?

Thanks again,
Tina


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