# Bowls and jars and plants, oh my!



## seadreamer90 (Jan 19, 2011)

I thought I'd do a journal of my latest projects. Naturally after spending $$ on plants I afterward discovered the excellent and informative thread on the easiest plants for a successful Walstad tank (link below). Such is my lot! Brace yourself for mistakes, but I'll just see how it goes.

Thread-- https://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/140409-good-growers-fish-tanks.html

Day 1
Oct 23, 2020

*BOWL*-about 2-1/2 gallons
*Dirt-old floaty potting soil, 1-1/2 inches, and I barely got the shrub roots buried with that much. Gravel cap.
*Plants-Myriophyllum pinnatum, Ozelot sword, and c. Spiralis. 
*Water-well water, unheated.
*Lighting-under cabinet light with unknown type of bulb.

*JAR*
*4 cups
*Dirt-aged amended local topsoil. Kind of dense with clay. 1-1/2 inches again. Gravel cap.
*Plants-myrio, Ozelot sword
*Water-same as above
*Lighting-same as above


----------



## Phatboyaa (Jun 15, 2020)

Sounds like a great tank! The image is not showing though or is it just me?


----------



## seadreamer90 (Jan 19, 2011)

Phatboyaa said:


> Sounds like a great tank! The image is not showing though or is it just me?


Thanks! Images are showing for me. Anyone else??


----------



## Phatboyaa (Jun 15, 2020)

seadreamer90 said:


> Thanks! Images are showing for me. Anyone else??


It's showing on Tapatalk but there's icon of broken images above them, how strange. Anyway what's the volume of the jar? I've never seen a walstad (or any aquarium) as small as that.

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


----------



## seadreamer90 (Jan 19, 2011)

Phatboyaa said:


> It's showing on Tapatalk but there's icon of broken images above them, how strange. Anyway what's the volume of the jar? I've never seen a walstad (or any aquarium) as small as that.
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


I'm pretty internet illiterate. Hopefully pics eventually show up. If not I'll redo. Anyway, the jar is about 4 cups. The plants will get far too large, one of many mistakes I made. Both plants will grow successfully out of the water, so I'm leaving as is to see what happens. I like the size, so if I have to redo I'll use small and easier-to-grow plants.

If you google "Planted jar aquariums" you'll see some neat ones.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

The contrast in plant texture is nice. I'm glad you're letting the swordplant grow out of the water. Otherwise, it would probably burst the jar!

Eventually, I think you'll find that the plants will outgrow their containers. But in the meantime, you can enjoy them.


----------



## seadreamer90 (Jan 19, 2011)

dwalstad said:


> The contrast in plant texture is nice. I'm glad you're letting the swordplant grow out of the water. Otherwise, it would probably burst the jar!
> 
> Eventually, I think you'll find that the plants will outgrow their containers. But in the meantime, you can enjoy them.


Thank you and I agree on the jar bursting! You know, I had successful low-tech planted tanks years ago, but I've forgotten so much. Putting huge growing swords in tiny containers is such a basic mistake that I thought I'd long moved beyond. But here I am.

I'm going to enjoy while I can, but I'm willing to restart them with the right easy plants if things go downhill too badly. We will see.


----------



## Jimbojambo (Sep 4, 2020)

Be a nice home for some little shrimp, and when the plants outgrow the bowls it will be a good excuse to start a new tank .


----------



## seadreamer90 (Jan 19, 2011)

Jimbojambo said:


> Be a nice home for some little shrimp, and when the plants outgrow the bowls it will be a good excuse to start a new tank .


My thoughts exactly!


----------



## seadreamer90 (Jan 19, 2011)

So, I headed to the kitchen for coffee early the morning before last and noticed the big bowl was kind of cloudy. Upon closer inspection I discovered a crypt was pulled up along with a couple of stem plants. Cats!! They’d also chewed half a leaf where a sword was sticking out of the water.


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

You would think carnivores would leave plants alone.


----------



## seadreamer90 (Jan 19, 2011)

Surface skimmer and water changer hard at work! The cats are NOT allowed on the counter. They get up there anyway.

The ozelot sword has put out a new leaf in both bowl and jar (the small red blob in center image). I also got a pic of the 16-inch tall cylinder. All lights are on a siesta schedule. There are two different soil layers in the small jar vs. the bowl, so I'm curious about results.


----------



## seadreamer90 (Jan 19, 2011)

November 7, 2020. Myriophyllum pinnatum roots growing into the soil substrate. I'm really impressed with the myrio growth.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Plants look good. Such root growth signals a healthy plant AND a healthy substrate.


----------



## seadreamer90 (Jan 19, 2011)

dwalstad said:


> Plants look good. Such root growth signals a healthy plant AND a healthy substrate.


Thank you, Diana. That's so good to know. This substrate is local topsoil with cow manure mixed in and aged a year (procrastination in play, not planning). It felt pretty dense once wet, like there was quite a bit of clay, so I've been watching closely for growth or a crash. This is the jar I accidentally got the soil too thick, but I'm not tearing it down unless I'm forced to!

I'm just so delighted with this method of aquarium keeping.


----------



## tiger15 (Apr 9, 2017)

I hanged 4 shrimp bowls, 1/2 to 1 gal, by my west facing windows that receive several hours afternoon sunlight. They are zero tech with different floaters, two with carpet plants on dirt substrate, and two with free guppy grass on bare bottom. They have been set up for about two years.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I remember when you set them up. That's great that they have done so well!


----------



## seadreamer90 (Jan 19, 2011)

Tiger, those are so pretty. I love the simplicity. I had a no tech 30-gallon tank in florida that thrived on several hours of afternoon sun.


----------



## tiger15 (Apr 9, 2017)

dwalstad said:


> I remember when you set them up. That's great that they have done so well!


I wouldn't say they are all doing well. I am still learning and evolving to make them do better.

I have zero algae in the guppy grass bowls (due to allelopathy?). Guppy grass grow really fast and will choke up the volume without intervention. From time to time, I had to prune out holes to create free space to look good.

Dwarf Sag bowl has mild but persistent spirogyra invasion which I removed from time to time, but easy as they don't stick and come out in strands. Dwarf sag grow slower than guppy grass but tall and can choke out volume, so I had to prune out free space from time to time.

DHG bowl is doing worst relatively. There is stubborn cladophora blanketing the DHG which I had hard time removing without sticking to and uprooting some grass. This is one bowl I never need pruning though as DHG stay low, and Luwidgia, surprisingly. grow at extremely slow pace due to CO2 limitation. Neither shrimp nor snails eat clado, so I am experimenting with excel treatment and introducing molly fry to see if they help.


----------



## Daz (Aug 15, 2020)

It's very interesting that you can test which plants are better at preventing algae growth. So far there is one pattern there: the plant that has no adaptations to growing emerged is the one growing faster and preventing algae growth with more success. Sadly those are also the bowls without substrate, right?, so can't really know if it is because of the najas or the lack of substrate. You could somehow answer that by adding najas to one of your other bowls, and substrate to one of your najas bowls.


----------



## tiger15 (Apr 9, 2017)

Daz said:


> It's very interesting that you can test which plants are better at preventing algae growth. So far there is one pattern there: the plant that has no adaptations to growing emerged is the one growing faster and preventing algae growth with more success. Sadly those are also the bowls without substrate, right?, so can't really know if it is because of the najas or the lack of substrate. You could somehow answer that by adding najas to one of your other bowls, and substrate to one of your najas bowls.


Even though there is no substrate, there is a layer of sediments accumulated from shrimp and snail poops, but no rooting plants. From time to time, I had to siphon it off with a turkey blaster.

Regarding association of non-emergent plants with allelopathy you suggested, Hornwort is known and used by pond keepers to inhibit algae. I have not found documentation that naja can produce allelopathy agent, nor any other non-emergent plants.

The only algae that grow in my setups are green filamentous algae, no brown or red algae. Snails and shrimp can take care of the soft type, but spirogyra and cladophora are too tough to chew, but not ugly in moderation. In fact, moss balls are made up of cladophora.


----------



## Daz (Aug 15, 2020)

Yes, algae inhibition by aquatic plants is not widely explored, but there are some results:

-Myriophyllum spicatum and Ceratophyllum demersum inhibit photoshynthetic activity of some algae, while Potamogeton pectinatus does not https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1529-8817.2002.t01-1-02001.x

-Egeria densa and Potamogeton illinoensis also affect algae growth https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2427.2011.02624.x

edit: Myriophyllum spicatum and Potamogeton illinoensis can have aerial leaves though, I still have the idea that those plants are far more adapted to submersed growth than Sagittaria or Elocharis.
edit: fixed the links (I hope)


----------



## tiger15 (Apr 9, 2017)

Daz said:


> Yes, algae inhibition by aquatic plants is not widely explored, but there are some results:
> 
> -Myriophyllum spicatum and Ceratophyllum demersum inhibit photoshynthetic activity of some algae, while Potamogeton pectinatus does not [https://doi.org/10.1046/j.1529-8817.2002.t01-1-02001.x]
> 
> ...


The links don't work so I repost here:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1529-8817.2002.t01-1-02001.x

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2427.2011.02624.x

It makes sense that non-emergent plants need to inhibit algae from competition for light whereas semi emergent bog plants can rise above water and algae trouble. I'm not sure if Vals can inhibit algae growth, but interestingly, Vals and other non-emergent plants are sensitive to Excel employed to inhibit algae.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Thanks for the references. I've added them to one of my lists. See attached.

Emergent plants (cattails, duckweed) very much produce allelochemicals. The reason plants produce allelochemicals is to inhibit competing plants and deter herbivores not just to suppress algae. Even then, some allelochemicals have unintended side effects in that they may inhibit a non-intended target. Complex and serendipitous and often unpredictable...

My book contains an entire chapter on allelochemicals produced by aquatic plants. Extracts of _Vallisneria americana_ were found to inhibit duckweed slightly, but not as dramatically as _Nuphar lutea_ (yellow water lily) which actually killed the duckweed being tested (my book, p. 36).


----------



## seadreamer90 (Jan 19, 2011)

Update December 5, day 43.

Lots of growth. The 3 vases are algae free aside from a tiny bit in the myrio that I blast out when I refill. I'm thinking of adding some to my six gallon as it's still struggling. I think the myrio is the key. It appears to be able to take cold water, low light plus sunlight (one bowl gets sun daily), and grows fast enough to win the algae battles.

It's hard to get a good shot of the round bowl without a bunch of reflections, but it too is filling up. One day I'll remove all that floating soil stuff!


----------



## seadreamer90 (Jan 19, 2011)

January 6. Day 76. Day 5 below for comparison.

I'm really pleased with this jar. I see steady growth, almost no algae, and I think I've changed the water 3 times. It gets topped up daily though. Oops on the year, lol.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Nice documentation.

That's quite impressive plant growth!

Shows a good way to keep those extra plant species going for the next tank setup.


----------



## seadreamer90 (Jan 19, 2011)

dwalstad said:


> Nice documentation.
> 
> That's quite impressive plant growth!
> 
> Shows a good way to keep those extra plant species going for the next tank setup.


Another tank, you say??


----------

