# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Disaster,R/O Water,Low Tech



## Sockfish (Dec 6, 2004)

Over the last week I've lost all of my fish to the power outages from Michigan ice storms...some died during evacuation [had to walk out with my bucket] and some were taken in by the lfs. The plants look pretty good.

Now that I have a tabula rasa, I'm thinking of doing my 29 gal as a natural set-up.

My first question is--my tap water source is unreliable coming from a well and the pH can be as high as 9 some days. It's also above a hardness of 300 and is horrid to scrape the water line all the time.

Could I use Reverse Osmosis water? Would I need to add anything to it?

Thanks,
Figgy


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## Miss Fishy (May 13, 2006)

I'm so sorry you lost your fish. Hopefully the ones that made it to the LFS will find good homes! 

As to the water, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think RO water is very low in Calcium and Magnesium and so would not be ideal for plant growing unless you add a supplement. Instead of using pure RO water and adding things, you could try mixing your well water with the RO water until you get the desired pH and hardness. 

From Alex.


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## javalee (May 8, 2006)

Hi, I wanted to second Miss Fishy on this. RO water is pure water and nothing else. This is a totally unnatural environment for plants and fish (a deadly one) as all natural water sources contain dissolved minerals that help plants and animals maintain correct water balance in their cells. So Miss Fishy's suggestion of mixing RO water with your well water is a good one. Cut your well water with RO water until you find a desired GH and pH. Good luck.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

If the GH of your well water is around 300 ppm, it is not too hard to grow plants. You do have to watch the buildup of hardness in the aquarium, though. That will happen if you simply replace evaporated water with harder water. You have to do an occasional water change.

A pH of 9 is another matter, though. Do you let the water sit overnight before you test it? It might be that it is very low on CO2 at the faucet. If it is, it will abosrb some overnight and the pH will drop.

If you have to dilute the water, you might also consider using water from a lake or stream that has plants growing in it.

BTW, if your well water is "unreliable" because its chemistry changes significantly from time to time, you might be getting surface water contamination, which is not a good thing.

Bill


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## Sockfish (Dec 6, 2004)

Here's a pic post set-up. Is it supposed to be this muddy? I have added a filter pad rubber banded over the HOB intake and it's clearing somewhat. I have 1.5" potting soil and couldn't see how much gravel (!). I set it up according to the Walstead book. Am I doing something wrong???! [That's driftwood and not the Beast of the Lagoon...] It sure isn't looking like Ricardo's tank!!!

Bill--the tap water here comes out of the faucet at @ 7.o pH. After it sits overnight it climbs to 9-ish and stays there.


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## Dave P (Dec 13, 2005)

Hi Figgy,

Wow! That reminds me a lot of my failed attempt with bagged topsoil from my local garden nursery. It's difficult to tell from photos whether the muddiness is due to tannins, suspended soil particles (turbidity) or a combination of both. A digital photo of my aquarium looked similar to yours; however, I could easily see with my own eyes that there really wasn't any turbidity.

Now, if the filter pad attached to your HOB intake is helping to clear the water, that would seem to indicate that at least part of the muddiness is due to turbidity. Tannin removal requires the use of activated carbon.


> Bill--the tap water here comes out of the faucet at @ 7.o pH. After it sits overnight it climbs to 9-ish and stays there.


In my opinion, this would suggest off-gassing of CO2. The colder the tapwater, the greater the concentration of dissolved CO2. The combination of CO2 with H20 forms a weak acid (carbonic acid). As the water warms, much of the CO2 bubbles out of solution. This would cause the pH to increase. The fact that your tap water would increase by 2 logarithmic orders of magnitude is impressive -- that's a lot of CO2. I guess it's possible, but I wonder if something else is contributing to this increase.

Do you have a KH test? It would be interesting to see where your water's buffering capacity stands.

Just my thoughts,

Dave P


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## JERP (Feb 4, 2003)

It's looks like you stirred up all the muck in the soil, like shuffling your feet across the lake bottom.

You could try a very gentle water change. By gentle, I mean to fill the tank very, very slowly. You can place a tupperware container in the tank under the hose to help prevent stirring up the soil.

I prefer the sea monster explanation.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Yes, I agree that this tank is a disaster! Water has _way_ too much turbidity. If this happened right off the bat, its because you stirred up the soil when you added the water.

It's a common mistake for people new to working with soil. One smart Ph.D. in our lab prepared a similar soup when first setting up a soil tank. So you're not alone.

Remember folks, you need to be careful in setting up your tanks. Layer in damp/dry soil and cover it with damp/dry gravel. Add the plants, but carefully spoon gravel around the disturbed areas.

Before you add water to the tank, put a plate on top of the gravel. Gently pour in some water, directing the water's force onto the plate so that you don't disturb the soil layer. The water should be almost clear. If it's not, don't keep filling the tank!

Drain off the cloudy water and try filling again. The water should be clear. If not, something's wrong.

I'd remove all the water from this tank, add a little more gravel, and try adding the water more carefully.


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## Sockfish (Dec 6, 2004)

Thank you all for the input. I did naively pour in the water--assuming any turbidity would settle out overnight. Guess not!

Here's a pic right after the suggested water change--you can see the heater!

I did an experiment with my tap water--I tested it out of the tap and got pH @ 7.0, then tested the same sample after sitting out overnight and got @ ph9. KH is 300 or higher.

Sox


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Definite improvement!


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

Def. a lot better. I might even try another large change. Drain all but an inch of the water, plant it then carefully fill it up again. You should be fine then.

-ricardo


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## Sockfish (Dec 6, 2004)

OK. Here's my mediocre pic of the current state of affairs. Now there's crypts, java moss, and vals. 5 harlequin rasbora, 3 julii corys, and "The Spare Guppy".

We have been through yet another power outage, but continue to muddle through...

Sox


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## Sockfish (Dec 6, 2004)

Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks,
Sox


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## JERP (Feb 4, 2003)

It looks about like any other new tank I've set up. I'd just leave it alone at this point.


tank looks nice


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Tank looks nice. I'd just kind of sit back and enjoy it.


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## GuppiesRfun (Apr 26, 2005)

Hi, this is Paula,(guppies) I just had to put in my input from my experience living in Harlan, Ky. deep in the Appalachians. It was cold in the winter. I had two red minor serpae tetras and was told they needed copper in the water to breed. My "grandpa" friend allowed me to use his well water which he said had copper in it. I know about temperature changes etc. by then and other stuff, but the fish died anyway. I don't know why and could have been the water, cold, any number of things including bad diet, not live food or something, tho I caught mosquito larvae and daphnia in the puddles in Oct? and cut up worms on Mom's cutting board with her approval as she got me started in fish. And I had brine shrimp going sometimes too very successfully as a kid.
I had great luck with an Amazon Swordplant in some cool rounded natural looking red small-med. rd gravel where a couple of new Jewel cichlids from a town Corbin? or Middlesboro? surprised me by hatching some babies. The Swordplant had a light on it and some light from a window and was very healthy. I guess there was a filter there. The babies just appeared one day and then they were gone







Someone is messaging me again. Sorry I can't get to you. Blame it all on my roots. I'm a product of my environment? Not really-I'm surrounded by geniuses! What was the question?hello. Like I said in another forum. As a kid. This other kid got fish out of a stream and put them in his big tank. I guess he might have had crawdads in there too and salamanders if he knew how to feed and care for them. I'll stick to livebearers a freshwater stuff. Here in the desert is stuff floating in the Colorado River like myro or hornwort or whatever that if your drastic could be used in a pinch if you killed all the parasites. Luckily, I'm stocked with some good stuff. In Harlan in the creek behind our house, I don't remember plants. A river was close by but I don't remember looking for plants in it. Probably should have-huh?-Guppies


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