# Lets talk de-rimming small / medium sized tanks...



## g33tar (Jan 3, 2010)

Alright guys...Im a brand new guy here.....and Im an aquarium newb..I had a saltwater tank when I was 12 which was a little over my head, and then I set up a freshwater tank when I was about 15 and ended up putting full sized bass in it, which ended terribly..Now Im 23 and figured I would give aquariums an adult effort and do it correctly....

BUT...

Ive been looking all over the place online looking for inspiration of what I want my planted tank to look like...and I realized after looking at many tanks that all the planted tanks i liked the most....didn't have a rim on them. Don't know why it took me so long to realize thats what it was...such a subtle change but it makes the look of the tank incredibly better, in my opinion. Then i found the price on the rimless tanks and it made my wallet hurt just looking at them..

So the whole 'set up an aquarium the right way' thing went out the window and Ive been researching the past week about removing the rims from tanks...heres the basic information I've come away with..

-Removing the bottom and top trim of a 10 gallon tank is pretty easy to do. Many people have done it and have had no problems with the tank falling apart.

-Removing the rim from larger, longer fish tanks with a middle support beam is a bad idea since the rim is indeed a structural support and keeps the front and back from bowing outwards.

-Attempting something like this on a 60 gallon tank or larger is without a doubt a bad idea.

*NOW...I have a 29 gallon tank*. The upper trim does not have a support beam in the middle...the tank is 30 inches long, 12 inches wide and 18 inches high. I think that's a standard size 29 gallon?

So heres my plan...
-Im not very worried that if the tank were to fail, it would be because of the front or back bowing out because the tank is not very long.

-Since pressure increases with depth, the most stress would be along the bottom joints and vertical joints nearest the bottom. If I were to leave the bottom trim ON, that would keep the bottom strong...making the weakest point the vertical joints.

-If i placed right angle aluminum edging the length of the vertical seams with high-strength silicone it would strengthen the them from splitting apart..although they arent attached to the bottom trim.










I would really like to try this...but am sizing up the beauty to the possible catastrophic results.

Ive been throwing this idea around with my brother and sister who are both engineering majors...my brother said it would be fine, my sister said it would fall apart. I was hoping for some opinions from you guys.

Thanks for any sense you can knock into me. This is a really cool forum!

-Alex


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## Cliff Mayes (Jan 29, 2007)

I have done this with 10s and they have been OK.

I also had a 20 in the LR pop when we were gone for an hour and it was a mess that I would not want to happen to anyone. 20 gallons does not seem too big but that is a lot of water to get loose.

I am not sure about a 29.


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## aquatic_clay (Aug 17, 2009)

I bet you could do it successfully with a 29. But... I always try to be a bit more cautious about doing this stuff. That's the reason i have not done this to my 29. What worries me most about doing this to a tank like a 29 is the height of tank and the added pressure from that extra height vs. a 10 gallon tank. I have removed the rim from 2 10 gallons so far and both are working out fine but i have noticed that the front glass on one of them is a little bit wobbly.

I think adding the angle on the tank like you showed will help out and make it much sturdier but i would still test fill it a few times to make sure it will hold.

29 gallons of water is a lot of water to have to clean up if something bad does happen.


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## g33tar (Jan 3, 2010)

When you say 'pop'....is it splitting at the vertical seams...or one of the sides blowing out?


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## Cliff Mayes (Jan 29, 2007)

One of the seams gave out.


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## g33tar (Jan 3, 2010)

Ah alrite. So the corner strips might help that? Ive also heard that silicone doesn't adhere as well with plastic to glass as it does on glass to glass. Anyone know another material that silicone adheres well with? Metal?

Thanks for the input so far guys. Its appreciated.


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## RestlessCrow (Nov 5, 2009)

Time for my .02 here.... 

I would go ahead and do it, but after done.... set it up in a a garage or something where you can fill it and let it sit for a week or two "Just in case". 29 gallons of water doesn't sound like much, until it's all over your house. Just fill up a five gallon bucket outside and tip it over to see what I mean.... Now imagine that times six.... and you'll get the idea.

If the glass is over 1/4 inch in thickness..... I wouldn't worry too much about it bowing without the rim, but my concern would be the corner seams. I think the aluminum angle would work quite nicely, but there IS a catch.

It is my understanding from all the reading I've done on here, that silicone works best as an adhesive ONLY when it is very very thin. (ie: between two plates of glass) If you slathered a thick bead on, and were relying on a 1/4" thickness to do your bonding, it would fail. If you were able to get the aluminum angle to fit extremely tightly against the glass, then I believe it will work nicely. Here is where the catch comes in. I hope I can explain this properly.

Almost all, without exception.... aluminum is extruded. (Think of one of those cake decorating tubes squeezing out icing to make those funky flowers and things....) The INSIDE edge of the aluminum angle... where it comes together will not be a perfect 90 degree angle. There will be a small radius in there. (Look at the inside of a tank where it is sealed with silicone.... that silicone forms a small radius and you couldn't fit a piece of angle in there because the silicone is in the way.)

Take a look at the following link: Mcmaster Carr If you look at the picture on the left, the inside edge is a perfect 90 degree angle. the picture on the right has a radius on the inside edge. (I finally managed to find a picture to explain.... always worth a thousand words....)

As long as you get pieces of angle with a perfect 90... I believe it would work flawlessly. Aluminum is nice to work with too. You can cut it with a normal carbide tipped blade. I use my wood chop saw to get perfect cuts.... You can polish it to a mirror finish too. I'd be glad to walk you through the machining end of it to get it all polished and shiny. (I've polished magneto covers and crankcases for my buddy's atv and he couldn't believe how well it came out...)

I think it would work. Just make SURE you get the right materials to start with. Good luck and let us all know how it works out!!!!!


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## g33tar (Jan 3, 2010)

Wow thanks for the great reply. I didnt even think about the whole radius inside edge of a right angle piece of metal...I know exactly what youre saying though. The radius on the corner wouldnt allow it the flat sides to get super-close enough to make a strong bond. 

Ill have to take a peek around Lowes or Home Depot and see if that carry the perfect right angle stuff...hopefully is isnt some specialty thing I need to order online. Thanks for the link too. I notice they offer it in many different thicknesses there, too...Would 1/8th been to slim? It isnt really a support piece as much as it is something for extra adhesion. I like the idea of 'framing' the vertical seams but i dont want it too be too bulky...rather look like the seams were done with black silicone.

Thanks again guys.


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## RestlessCrow (Nov 5, 2009)

g33tar said:


> Wow thanks for the great reply. I didnt even think about the whole radius inside edge of a right angle piece of metal...I know exactly what youre saying though. The radius on the corner wouldnt allow it the flat sides to get super-close enough to make a strong bond.
> 
> Ill have to take a peek around Lowes or Home Depot and see if that carry the perfect right angle stuff...hopefully is isnt some specialty thing I need to order online. Thanks for the link too. I notice they offer it in many different thicknesses there, too...Would 1/8th been to slim? It isnt really a support piece as much as it is something for extra adhesion. I like the idea of 'framing' the vertical seams but i dont want it too be too bulky...rather look like the seams were done with black silicone.
> 
> Thanks again guys.


I talked to my welder buddy..... the PROPER term for the two types of aluminum is "Structural" and "Architectural". You want the Architectural which will have no inside radius. The eighth inch would be FINE.... In this application, you will NEVER exceed the working strength of the aluminum. I order glass rods from McMaster Carr, and it usually arrives in one day. (they ship out of NJ so I'm close to them however) When you decide what you're doing, we want to see pictures!


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