# DIY : Rimless glass 13" cube



## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

I've always really enjoyed the look of rimless tanks. It seams to add another dimension to the tank. As well, it makes the aquarium less of a "cage" and more of a beautiful 3D picture held in by a force field.

So, I'm making a 13" rimless cube

I started off by reading thisthread

Then, I called around every glass store in town for pricing. I called for quotes on regular glass and starphire.
Regular glass was around $7.00 per pane, and starphire was around $30 a pane w/some as hi as $60/pane:-k One guy even said "I've been in the business for 28 years, and I don't know what Starphire is." wow, just wow...
ignorance

Needless to say I decided on regular glass 
I purchased the glass with a regular sanded finish as I'm mostly using this tank as practice to make a larger tank down the road (I'm gonna go salt water with the big tank)

Measurements requested from the glass company:
1 @ 13" x 13" x 3/16"
2 @ 12 13/16" x 13" x 3/16"
2 @ 12 5/8" x 12 13/16" x 3/16"

first time they messed up and cut one pane 12 3/16":noidea:

after getting a different pane I was out the door

Time to gather supplies:
1 -tube of aquarium grade silicone I picked up from work
1 - caulking gun
1- roll of masking tape
1- bottle of rubbing alcohol
6 - 12 5/8" wooden dowels
8 - clamps (I'm not sure I'll use all these, but I've got 'em none the less)

This leads me to where I am today.
I taped the pieces together to get a feel for what the tank will look like and the difficulty of keeping the panes in place. WOW, let me tell you keeping panes of glass in place is a PITA. After some slipping and sliding I got the panes together.

To my dismay the glass cutter did not cut to my tolerances, and the top of the tank is not all the same height. Some panes are slightly taller than others, and some of the corners were sanded aggressively, resulting in rounded edges. I don't think I'll do anything about it, but FYI make sure to get all of your specs. in writing to the glass cutter and be very precise!

I think that's all for tonight. I'll post some pictures later.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Goodness that stinks the glass cutter messed up the dimensions and edges. Is there any way you can go back and get the glass cut shorter so that each panel is even with the next? I think they should be able do to do that for you for their imperfect job. Looking forward to your construction and finished product pictures.

-John N.


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## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

Take the panes back and they can sand the edges to match, and maybe get them a little more square.


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

that's a good idea, thank you for the great suggestions.


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## Craig Tarvin (Jul 26, 2005)

apistaeasy said:


> One guy even said "I've been in the business for 28 years, and I don't know what Starphire is." wow, just wow...
> ignorance


Why do you expect some guy that sells windows in Utah to know what a certain brand of glass used for aquariums is?

Are you sure you don't to just buy an ADA 12" cube for $57. By the time you are done I doubt you will save much, if any money, and there's no way you are going to be able to match their quality. Only way I could see it making sense is if you just really want to build one, or really have to have that extra inch, or like you said are using it as practice.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

When I was building cabinets for people I couldn't get any glass shop to guarantee their dimensions more accurately than +/- 1/16 inch. And, they sometimes even missed that. That suggests to me that achieving good accuracy may be extremely difficult. If I were doing that DIY project I would try for very good accuracy only where essential, like both ends need to be the same width, and all sides need to be the same height. But, the other dimensions can be off a bit more. Even doing that the glass shops I used would just laugh at me.


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## DWIZUM (Jun 8, 2006)

> Why do you expect some guy that sells windows in Utah to know what a certain brand of glass used for aquariums is?


To add to that, I really doubt the untrained eye can tell the difference on a Starphire tank vs. standard glass at such a small thickness - IMHO it really only comes in to play for very thick glass on large tanks.

If anyone else is doing something like this, try simply asking for a low-iron glass instead of the specific brand name Starphire.


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## DWIZUM (Jun 8, 2006)

hoppycalif said:


> When I was building cabinets for people I couldn't get any glass shop to guarantee their dimensions more accurately than +/- 1/16 inch. And, they sometimes even missed that. That suggests to me that achieving good accuracy may be extremely difficult. If I were doing that DIY project I would try for very good accuracy only where essential, like both ends need to be the same width, and all sides need to be the same height. But, the other dimensions can be off a bit more. Even doing that the glass shops I used would just laugh at me.


+1 from the picture framing business. 1/16" is extremely good tolerances for most cut glass!

Another alternative would be to buy enough glass to make several tanks, then pick and choose out of the pieces you get to come up with "matched sets" that are close enough to eachother, even though they may be a bit off from the exact dimension you wanted.

And of course another option is to just do it yourself.  Cutting glass this thin is trivial, though of course sanding/polishing the edges is a bit more tricky.


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## AndyT. (Jun 28, 2006)

Craig Tarvin said:


> Are you sure you don't to just buy an ADA 12" cube for $57. By the time you are done I doubt you will save much, if any money, and there's no way you are going to be able to match their quality. Only way I could see it making sense is if you just really want to build one, or really have to have that extra inch, or like you said are using it as practice.


apistaeasy noted that this was a practice run for building a large saltwater aquarium down the road. I understand his urge; I have always wanted to build my own aquariums. With saltwater especially I can see where building your own allows you to have the tank drilled where you want, you could build your own internal filter system...

I can't wait to see how this goes!


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## schaadrak (Aug 18, 2006)

Why not try acrylic? It's clearer (the good stuff is) and easier to work with. Min you I've never built a tank out of it, but I worked with it some in shop class back in High School.


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## fish_lover0591 (Jan 11, 2007)

yup acrylic is very easy to work with  i used it on my science fair project in junior high school lol It was a tornado in a box.


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

AndyT. said:


> apistaeasy noted that this was a practice run for building a large saltwater aquarium down the road. I understand his urge; I have always wanted to build my own aquariums. With saltwater especially I can see where building your own allows you to have the tank drilled where you want, you could build your own internal filter system...
> 
> I can't wait to see how this goes!


Yes...I am doing this mostly for practice. I am planning on making a custom overflow for the salt tank.

Schadraak: That's also why I'm making it out of glass and not acrylic

DWIZUM: The tank I want to use starphire will be 3/8 inch thick. I think 3/8" is thick enough to notice a difference, although I'm not positive.

I took the glass back to the cutters, and the shop man had experience making tanks. He made the glass fit almost how I wanted it and gave me some tips from his experience.

If I can get to it tonight I will clean the glass and mask.
oh, and I'll post some pics too!


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

I just began to mask for my seams, and I've started re-thinking myself...Does 1/8" on each pane, making 1/4" seams sound good? 
On the bottom seam I'll probably do around 3/16" seams to make for 3/8"
I want to try and keep the seams as small as possible...
Any thoughts???


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## mahamotorworks (Nov 7, 2006)

Personally I would so 3/16 on the sides, and 1/4 on bottom just to make sure you have enough of a seal. 

That is what I think.


MAHA


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

Pictures!
All five panes masked, labeled and ready to go. I masked to just under 3/16" and around 1/4" on the bottom.









I cut some wood pieces to help support the inside and provide opposition against the clamps to keep the glass tightly in place









I taped up the metal ends of the clamps so they wouldn't scratch the glass.
I've got 6 clamps taped up to do the job w/two more in reserve if I need them:









Next I taped the glass together, clamped everything securely and trued all the pieces of glass to where I want them:



















After I had all the glass together I decided that I ought to mask off a little more of the glass so I don't have to focus on being clean. I don't want anything distracting me when I silicone it all together


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

the pieces of wood don't fit anymore...I cut them to 12 5/8", but after the trip to the glass cutters today to get all the glass trued...oh, well. I'm not where the saw is, and I don't want to make the drive in the terrible weather we're having now (it's going to get down to 2 degrees tonight!)

After clamping everything nice and tight I inspected all the seams; I don't think I'll need to use the wood anymore anyways.

For now it's late and I don't want to silicone while I'm tired. Tomorrow it is.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

This is gonna be an awesome tank..and thread!

-John N.


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## mahamotorworks (Nov 7, 2006)

Looks like you are off to a good start. Cant wait to see more pics and progress.

MAHA


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Be careful with those clamp! You should not need to clamp that tight. You don't want to squeeze out all the silicone. My understanding is that most of the strength of the joint comes from the silicone between the panes, not on the overlap itself. Keep the overlap as small as possible and make sure you take it down to a very feather edge as this is the most durable. A lip will peel before a feather edge will. Try to make the silicone thinner than the tape with a nice rounded fillet in between.

Looking good though. Keep us updated with pics.


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

I siliconed the tank.

Siliconing was actually much faster and easier than I anticipated. Here's my method:

To begin with, I loosened all the clamps just slightly - enough to allow for a tiny bit of space between glass, but not enough to allow things to move around.

1. Silicone all the vertical seams first. Since all the vertical seams were masked to around 3/16" on each side (3/8"total), I cut the tip of the silicone tube to match those seams.

2. Silicone the horizontal seams last. After I knew I was done adding any silicone to the vertical seams I cut the tip a little bigger.

3. lay it down thick. I didn't lay down so much silicone that it was coming out like a fire hydrant, but fast enough to do each seam at a fairly quick pace.

4. smooth it out. After I had gunned all the silicone down I used my finger to smooth the seams. I've read that some people will wet their finger to prevent the silicone from sticking - I did it the first time, but not after that. The silicone cleaned up pretty easily since I didn't leave it on my skin for very long.

4.1 Tighten the clamps. Using your finger (as in 4)helps to push the silicone between the glass. tighten, and then see if you need to smooth again.

5. When siliconing, hold the tube at a 45* angle, and push the bead. When smoothing with a finger, pull the bead.

6. I only used..._maybe_ 1/4 of the tube. For a tank this small a caulking tube is too much silicone, but squeezing out a a small tube may prove to be difficult. I dunno.

7. For crying out loud, silicone your tank in a well ventilated area. I did it in my apartment, and I'm getting a headache:boxing:  It got down to 3* last night, so I don't want to go outside...


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

Silicone between the panes:


















Thanks for the tips Dennis. If only I had seen your post about 15 min. ago! Although, I did most of what you suggested anyways.


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

OH, and another FYI. Don't touch the silicone after it's been sitting for over 5 min. 

Ask me how I know...


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

Yet another FYI. Don't silicone your tank right by the air intake for your heating. Silicone smell over your entire apartment is bad. Time to put the jacket on, and brave the wild outdoors!


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## jassar (Jul 30, 2006)

Hey there!
Great thread, see, I had the same problem concerning glass type and even in finding aquarium silicon!!
But I was lucky enough to find a guy who builds aquariums for fish stores here in Amman....so I asked him to build me one ( regular glass and silicon! )
but the price was crazy! here is the 60cm tank I ordered from him:









It only costed me around 10$  , but it's alote more fun to build it your self 

I can't wait to see your tank finished 
Cheers


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## kkau1 (Jun 22, 2006)

Oooh, 1/2 Gallon milk 5 for $5!


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

apistaeasy said:


> OH, and another FYI. Don't touch the silicone after it's been sitting for over 5 min.
> 
> Ask me how I know...


How you do you know? 

-John N.


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## AndyT. (Jun 28, 2006)

Great work... hard to believe this is a first time building an aquarium. I'm very impressed with the care and appreciate your taking the time to detail how it was done. 

Now breathe some clear air!!


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## schaadrak (Aug 18, 2006)

Now see, if you had used acrylic you would have gotten a great buzz to help the headache. 

Looks good. You seemed to have thought this though very well.

Tschuss,

Kent


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

Thank you all for your generous comments. I'm excited for tomorrow. As soon as church is over @ around noon, I'm coming home to de-mask the tank. Then comes filling it up to leak test...then...wait...and...wait...longer...hopefully no leaks for 24 hours.

Does anyone have any post-mask removal hints? Should I expect the tape to come off pretty easily? and I shouldn't need to trim anything...should I?

Thanks again

another thought. It's going to get down to 2* tonight, so instead of turning the heat off and keeping warm under the down blanket, I'll be keeping the thermostat up a little bit. I also turned the fan on in the room I moved the tank into. (yes, I did have to move the tank before the silicone had cured. The smell was too much! I hope I didn't ruin anything...we'll see tomorrow)


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## Ankit (Dec 9, 2006)

Wow, excellent job! 

I've been thinking about this myself lately and might give it a try now that I've seen you do it - where did you research on this process before doing it? Or is there less to know than I think?

You've laid out the steps pretty well so it is just that information plus practice? I want to give this a try now


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

Ankit said:


> where did you research on this process before doing it? Or is there less to know than I think?


The main post I used for reference is listed in the first post
In the post I have linked there are many other threads and information linked (mostly in the bottom of the first page) that will help you.


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

*aargh*

This is why having rounded corners from the glass cutter is bad:










I almost won the game, but messed up and lost it









Right now I have two options:
1. Silicone the crap out of the cracks. The cracks are 1 1/2" x 2 1/2", and on the back side of the tank where it will be covered w/substrate. I'll be able to hide it easily, but I'll always know there are cracks in it. I believe I will be able to silicone it well enough to be water tight.

2. remove the pane(s) of glass, have a new one cut and start over again. This will take me a long time to do, as removing silicone from glass is a chore.

Lessons learned:
1. Make sure the glass cutter doesn't make rounded corners for a square aquarium
2. Be aware of the rounded corner and don't clamp tightly. I didn't think I had clamped tightly at all, but we are talking about glass, right?
3. Make sure the glass cutter doesn't make rounded corners for a square aquarium!

Other than this setback, the tank looks to be strong, clean and sleek.


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## mahamotorworks (Nov 7, 2006)

How did the de-masking go? From what I thought it was best to de mask your line 5 to 10 min after you applied the silicone. You may have a problem with the silicone wanting to stick to the tape. Hope it goes well.


I guess we posted at the same time. That sucks that you have a cracked pane. I would replace it. I know it is a lot if work but I think it will be worth it. If you dont feel like all the work then just silicone it.

MAHA


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

I didn't de-mask.

There are two ways in removing the masking - remove the tape w/in 5-10 min, or wait for it to cure fully and then remove it.


Replacing the pane will add at least 3-5 days in the process, since this is a holiday weekend and my school schedule is busy. 
I'm on the fence - on one hand I want it to be done right, and on the other hand I want it setup asap since we have Galaxy rasboras at work and I'm not sure about the future availability...


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Get the galaxies and keep them in a Rubber-Maid container with airstone and heater (getting darn cold these past days!) and I think they'll be fine for a few days.

In one of my recent re-scapes, I had fish and shrimp in a rather large container (~15 gallons) for a better part of a week and had no casualties. I just threw in a buch of plants to make them feel more at home. =)


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

Hehe, thanks for the suggestion...I don't feel comfortable keeping a dozen or more ten dollar fish in a bucket for a few days...I'm sure I could...


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

My mind got made up for me about replacing the pane of glass. I didn't wait long enough for the silicone to cure, and when I de-masked...well, it was a gooie mess.

Here's how the tank sits now:









and a close up on the crack:










I'll get new glass cut some time later this week, and I'll try again! Say a prayer for everything to work next time [-o<


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## schaadrak (Aug 18, 2006)

I think it's time to find a new glass cutter.
or go acrylic
Huh? Me? No, I didn't say anything.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

That stinks! The second time is always a charm? 

-John N.


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## iris600 (Feb 12, 2004)

If you want to be adventurous, you could make a bit of an investment and cut it yourself. Glasscutting is made out to be harder than it is. I took a couple of classes in stained glass, and I cut my own glass regularly. To remove the sharp edges and get the angle you want, a grinder works. I use a dremel tool with a tip that can be used for glass grinding (well, in the stained glass workshop we use other grinders) to get an angle on the edge if I want one.
A glass cutter will run you a buck or two, you already have scrap pieces of glass to practice on. A dremel tool (basic) should cost you about 30.

If they can't do it right, you can try to do it yourself. Can't be worse than the job they've done. 
Plus, the dremel tool is my favorite tool period. I've made filter intakes/outtakes, drilled driftwood onto slate, made breeding caves, ground glass edges, engraved gifts, etc. I love it. Love it.


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## Chandresh (Nov 18, 2006)

Too bad about the crack. I used 1/4 plate glass--probably a little overkill, but better safe than sorry. I had my glass for a 14" tall, 12"W 12" D tank cut at city glass and they did an excellent job, all for $44 (including grinding the edges for me). 

What thickness glass did you use? 

Didn't need clamps or anything to hold it together--the silicone does that well enough, with a little bit of masking tape. If you smooth the silicone enough to where its the same thickness as the tape or thinner, there shouldn't be any mess at all. 

If you do get silicone on the glass, let it dry. Don't want to smear it and make things worse.

Go get a some lacquer thinner. Razor blade as much of the silicone as you can off, and then use the lacquer thinner on a rag to rub the "ghosting" off. Repeat until the glass is clean. Use acetone to wipe down the glass if you like, but the lacquer thinner evaporates very quickly, so I'm not sure its necessary. If you don't ventilate properly, prepare to die. Lacquer thinner is really bad, fume-wise. It takes a bit of elbow grease, but it works like a charm!


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## jassar (Jul 30, 2006)

Ah man! I hate it when this happenes...
Good luck next time! ( we are with u!! )
Cheers man


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## Troy McClure (Aug 3, 2005)

kkau1 said:


> Oooh, 1/2 Gallon milk 5 for $5!


LOL! I was going to say the exact same thing...that's a hell of a deal...too bad drinking milk causes sharp stabbing pains in my stomach


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

I got my new pane today! Tank build begins again tomorrow.


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## AndyT. (Jun 28, 2006)

Fingers crossed for you. Thank you for sharing everything, even the bad. That way we all learn.

Again, good luck!!


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

Pictures coming soon!


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

I made sure to write myself tons of notes on the glass. I even lined where the panes will touch and number coded it all.









This time I masked everything really well _before_ putting the panes together:









Next I fitted everything together and made sure everything fit perfectly. One pane didn't really fit too great, so I took it apart and re-masked one pane.









After everything fit perfectly I clamped all the panes _very_ gently. Then I siliconed all the seams. This time I decided to remove the masking before the silicone dried. The bottom mask was too difficult to remove, so it's still there.









I did all this Saturday. I'm going to let the silicone dry until tomorrow before I start moving it around - that's 72 hrs to let the silicone cure. If everything goes well tomorrow I'll fill it up and test it out!


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

It looks good this time! I will keep my fingers crossed for you.


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## AndyT. (Jun 28, 2006)

It looks great! I'm with Hoppy - fingers crossed!


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## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

Lookin Good, fingers crossed as well.


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

we have to make sure we cross the fingers right..remember from elementary school? There are rules to finger crossing...I can't remember! Oh, well. Fingers crossed.


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

Tank is holding water


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## mahamotorworks (Nov 7, 2006)

Good to hear. It looks really good.

MAHA


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## AndyT. (Jun 28, 2006)

Whoo-Hooo!! artyman: 

Now, if I place my order for my custom, no brace, framless 150 gallon starphire aquarium today, when can I expect delivery?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Congratulations! A successful DIY project is always good news, but successfully making your own tank is in a special category.

The secret to crossing one's fingers is to get all four fingers on both hands crossed for the right period of time.


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

Tank is still holding water after 24 hours. As soon as I can find a place in my small apartment to set the tank up I'll create a thread in the aquascape section detailing the setup. I might build my own stand too, keep your eyes peeled for the thread!


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