# [Wet Thumb Forum]-how much iron per day?



## aviel (Sep 12, 2004)

Hi,

Till now I was dosing 0.06 ppm iron daily and I have got the feeling that this is not enough. I was wondering how much others are dosing.

I collected data from posts on this forum. Any new data or corrections would be appreicated.

Rex Grigg (here) recommends 0.25 ppm iron per week. That's 0.035 PPM daily.

Tsunami06 -


> quote:
> 
> I dose 9 mL Flourish Iron _and_
> 14 mL Flourish to my 20g long per week


 (here) - that's 0.25 ppm daily.

JamesHoftiezer :


> quote:
> 
> If that is the case you are adding 0.166 ppm of iron every time you dose the trace


 (here[/URL). 3 times a week equals - 0.05 ppm daily.

bobo31 -


> quote:
> 
> In my 30 gallon with 3.6wpg of PC lighting I dose 5mls of flourish iron every night and 7.5mls of Flourish every other night. I dose when the lights go out.


 - that's 0.73 ppm per day !!!!!!!!!!!

ninob -


> quote:
> 
> I dose 0.75ml/10gl twice a week only


 (I take it this is flourish iron -yes?) - that's 0.06 ppm per day.

Iunknown - 12 ml flourish and 16 ml flourish iron per week on a 15 gal tank. That's 0.46 ppm per day!!

FishFry -


> quote:
> 
> I add 4.5 mL of Kent Iron to my 20 gallon tank every 2 days, I also add 2 mL of Seachem Flourish every two days


 that's 0.32 ppm per day. Macrandra looks stunning.

Cavan -


> quote:
> 
> 4ml Flourish Iron in addition to the 3.5 ml of Flourish. Both every day. This is in a 30 gallon (or 113 litre) tank. No thread algae.


That's 0.45 ppm per day !!

Also I am @ 2.9 wpg growing macrandra & eusteralis not really successfully. I want to know if 0.06 is on the high or low side.

Aviel.


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## aviel (Sep 12, 2004)

Hi,

Till now I was dosing 0.06 ppm iron daily and I have got the feeling that this is not enough. I was wondering how much others are dosing.

I collected data from posts on this forum. Any new data or corrections would be appreicated.

Rex Grigg (here) recommends 0.25 ppm iron per week. That's 0.035 PPM daily.

Tsunami06 -


> quote:
> 
> I dose 9 mL Flourish Iron _and_
> 14 mL Flourish to my 20g long per week


 (here) - that's 0.25 ppm daily.

JamesHoftiezer :


> quote:
> 
> If that is the case you are adding 0.166 ppm of iron every time you dose the trace


 (here[/URL). 3 times a week equals - 0.05 ppm daily.

bobo31 -


> quote:
> 
> In my 30 gallon with 3.6wpg of PC lighting I dose 5mls of flourish iron every night and 7.5mls of Flourish every other night. I dose when the lights go out.


 - that's 0.73 ppm per day !!!!!!!!!!!

ninob -


> quote:
> 
> I dose 0.75ml/10gl twice a week only


 (I take it this is flourish iron -yes?) - that's 0.06 ppm per day.

Iunknown - 12 ml flourish and 16 ml flourish iron per week on a 15 gal tank. That's 0.46 ppm per day!!

FishFry -


> quote:
> 
> I add 4.5 mL of Kent Iron to my 20 gallon tank every 2 days, I also add 2 mL of Seachem Flourish every two days


 that's 0.32 ppm per day. Macrandra looks stunning.

Cavan -


> quote:
> 
> 4ml Flourish Iron in addition to the 3.5 ml of Flourish. Both every day. This is in a 30 gallon (or 113 litre) tank. No thread algae.


That's 0.45 ppm per day !!

Also I am @ 2.9 wpg growing macrandra & eusteralis not really successfully. I want to know if 0.06 is on the high or low side.

Aviel.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Your plants are the best indicators on weather you need to add iron or not. I use to dose iron on a daily basis, but ended up having a algae outbreak from overdosing. Now I only dose 1cc per gallon of iron per month and this works great for me. I would just keep a eye on your plants and dose as needed.


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## aviel (Sep 12, 2004)

Yes - absolutely agree - my plants are the best indicators. But on the other hand still in order to get a feel if I am in the right range it's good to know what are the PPMs that experienced aquarists got after they looked at their plants.

Aviel.


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## bobo31 (May 8, 2004)

In my 30 gallon with 3.6wpg of PC lighting I dose 5mls of flourish iron every night and 7.5mls of Flourish every other night. I dose when the lights go out.

So I dose 35mls of iron every week and 22.5mls of Flourish every week.

I have no algae issues at all with this routine. I have been dosing like this for two and half weeks now. Before this I was doing the same routine exept I only added the iron on nights when I didn't add Flourish. My stargrass was still growing in a little white so I increased the iron dose to every day.

Robert.


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## nino (Oct 2, 2004)

Wow, that's a lot of iron you dose Bobo. I read that some tanks can take 1-2ppm of iron without any problem and now I know yours could. Mine will be pea soup if I try that







I dose 0.75ml/10gl twice a week only.


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## nino (Oct 2, 2004)

Aviel,
There is a way you could test your tank. I read it somewhere and have been using that method also. Your tank will be able to handle more and more iron as they get older. This is the method I use (based on twice a week dosing):
- Going into 3rd month : I dose 1/4 of the recommended dosage / dosing session. 3 days later I do another session of dosing. If there is no excessive green spot algae, I would increase the dosing on the following week and keep continue increasing until at one point suddenly greenspots algae shows up in excess. That's the maximum amount your tank can take at that moment. If hair algae starts to grow, you want to reduce the dosing amount rightaway. Just use this dosage for the next 3-6 months. After that, you could do the same thing again and you'll find out that your tank actually can take more without any algae problems.


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## imported_Svennovitch (Feb 1, 2003)

I think how much iron you have to dose each day is different for every tank. It all depends on the type of substrate you have (iron rich or not), amount of light (stability of the chelators), temperature, amount of plants, sort of plants (e.g. Mayaca needs a lot of iron), filter (oxidizing of the iron),...

And like mentioned before here, the plants are the best test kits


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## aviel (Sep 12, 2004)

OK,

I added bobo31 and ninob data into my first message.

Few things that I would like to understand - 

1) Dosing during light out! - superstition or truth???

2) My tank shall be able to take more and more iron as it gets older - superstition or truth??

3) What are the signs for iron deficiency. Book say yellowing edges on new leaves, but come on, my macrandra doesn't have green leaves. And also now I hear that stargrass getting white indicates iron deficiency... 

4) I am somewhat afraid of dosing more and more till there's algae since getting rid of the algae means stopping iron dosing altogether (and starving the mollies...) which could damage the plants.

And - if there are more volunteers to add to my list above or correct the data - every body are welcome.

Aviel.


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

My current routine (still have to work out some kinks, I get slight hair algae toward the end of the week)
Date: 8.2.04 
Fertilizer M T W TH F S SU 
Flourish 4mL 4mL 4mL 
Flourish Iron 4mL 4mL 4mL 4mL 
PO4 .25ppm .25ppm .25ppm 
NO3 1/8 tsp 
K 1/8 tsp 
Water Change 65% 

high light tanks need much more micros and iron. Plus I am using onyx, which doesn't have a lot of iron.
1) Dosing during light out! - superstition or truth???
You don't want the lights to react with the iron you dose, so you need to dose at night (if you have tons of light).

2) My tank shall be able to take more and more iron as it gets older - superstition or truth??

As your biomass goes up you will need to adjust the dosing frequency slightly. Iron will build up in the substrate as rust, so your substrate will increase in iron content.


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> 1) Dosing during light out! - superstition or truth???
> You don't want the lights to react with the iron you dose, so you need to dose at night (if you have tons of light).


Superstition.

If you dose with ferrous gluconate (Seachem products) then there is no reaction with light. The reaction occurs with chelated ferric iron only. With ferric chelates you want the light to react with the iron. Plants generally will not get the iron out of the chelate. They can get to the iron only if the light breaks down the chelate first.



> quote:
> 
> 2) My tank shall be able to take more and more iron as it gets older - superstition or truth??


Beats me. My experience is that established tanks may be a little less sensitive to dosing errors. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or whether it indicates that established tanks develop a population of bacteria that consume whatever you're adding, E.g., the bacteria in the filter start consuming EDTA for the amino and calories it includes and the iron drops out of solution; you can dose more iron (actually need to dose more iron) not because plants are using more of it but because bacteria are taking it out of solution. Just my speculation.

Roger Miller


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

Roger does ferrous gluconate have problems with oxygen saturation? I thought I read something the other day about how Fe can oxidize when the water is saturated with oxygen. So then the best time to dose iron would be in the mornings when O2 levels are lowest?


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## bobo31 (May 8, 2004)

I will also mention that I have a substrate of 50% flourite and 50% silica sand.



> quote:
> 
> Superstition.
> 
> If you dose with ferrous gluconate (Seachem products) then there is no reaction with light. The reaction occurs with chelated ferric iron only. With ferric chelates you want the light to react with the iron. Plants generally will not get the iron out of the chelate. They can get to the iron only if the light breaks down the chelate first.


That is very interesting I may have to start dosing in the mornings then.

I have also heard that PO4 can react with iron is this true?

Robert.


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by IUnknown:
> Roger does ferrous gluconate have problems with oxygen saturation?


No special problem. Ferrous iron will oxydize to ferric iron under any condition that will support fish. It doesn't happen immediately and it's probably the lag time between when the gluconate releases teh iron and when the iron oxydizes that makes the ferrous iron available to plants. Maybe that lag time gets a little shorter if the oxygen level is higher.

There are a few things that will influence the availability of iron. I expect that that oxygen levels would be a minor consideration.

Roger Miller


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> I have also heard that PO4 can react with iron is this true?


That is true. It can react with it in a couple different ways. I'm not sure that the reactions are significant in aquariums. If you are concerned about it then just don't dose iron and phosphate at the same time.

The most important thing to keep in mind is that you should not combine phosphate with iron in any kind of DIY fertilizer mix. One will take the other out of solution.

Roger Miller


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

wait, if iron reacts with phosphate to come out of solution, then would a person who has too much phosphate from overfeeding their fish have a problem with this?


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Algae Grower:
> wait, if iron reacts with phosphate to come out of solution, then would a person who has too much phosphate from overfeeding their fish have a problem with this?


Let me repeat. "Im not sure that the reactions are significant in aquariums."

Maybe someone else can answer that.

Roger Miller


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## aviel (Sep 12, 2004)

Iunknown,

I need your tank size in order to complete the calculation.


Trenac,

U mean 1cc flourish iron per gallon? 


Roger,

I was under the impression that bacteria develops during the first 6 weeks of the aquarium life. It is when the nitrite level dropping to 0 or so that there's enough bacteria to eat the ammonia. So what do you mean by bacteria needs are growing. Is it because we add more and more fish?

Also I thought that actually there's more bacteria on the plant leaves and that the surface area there is much bigger than in the filter. Am I right? So bacteria population grows and shrinks as plants grow and being trimeed?...

And Roger I believe I calculated once 0.03 ppm per day in your tank - can't find the source. Is it still it? Are you experienced with Rotala Macrandra and Eusteralis with such small dosing regime?

Aviel.


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

15 actual gallons, 18T nominal.
(resulting ppm) = [(ml of commercial solution) x ( stock percent) x (10)] / [(3.77) x (actual gallons)] 
from flourish iron, m,w,f,s
.7ppm = [(4) x ( 1) x (10)] / [(3.77) x (15)] 
probably should change this to 3 mL.
from flourish, t,th,su
.23ppm = [(4) x ( .32) x (10)] / [(3.77) x (15)]


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Aviel Livay:
> I was under the impression that bacteria develops during the first 6 weeks of the aquarium life. It is when the nitrite level dropping to 0 or so that there's enough bacteria to eat the ammonia. So what do you mean by bacteria needs are growing. Is it because we add more and more fish?


You are thinking of just the nitrifying bacteria. There are many, many different kinds of bacteria in an aquarium. Generally, bacterial populations adapt to use whatever energy and nutrient sources are available in their environment. If you provide ferrous iron there will be bacteria that oxidize it. If you provide EDTA there will be bacteria that eat it. It is an inevitable feature of aquatic systems.



> quote:
> 
> Also I thought that actually there's more bacteria on the plant leaves and that the surface area there is much bigger than in the filter. Am I right? So bacteria population grows and shrinks as plants grow and being trimeed?...


That may or may not be true. It depends on your filter and conditions in your tank. The population in the tank is significant but I expect that the population in a filter is much larger than the population on the leaves in most aquariums. If the population on the leaves were very large then you would see the associated biofilm. There would be complaints.



> quote:
> 
> And Roger I believe I calculated once 0.03 ppm per day in your tank - can't find the source. Is it still it? Are you experienced with Rotala Macrandra and Eusteralis with such small dosing regime?


I'm not sure where that number would come from. I increased my dose a few months back. Now I'm dosing 1/3 ml of Seachem Iron (1% iron) per 50 gallons per day in two of my tanks. That works out to 0.017 ppm/day. The other tanks are dosed with Flourish and probably get less iron.

I have no experience with R. macrandra or Eusteralis.

Roger Miller


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