# Advice on first NPT and an interesting experiment...



## Kestrel (Mar 30, 2009)

Hi everyone! I'm new to the forum, but I've been lurking for a while and have found out so many new things!

I have never really been able to get plants to grow in my 75 gal community tank, even though I have used many of the easy-to-grow varieties. I'm pretty sure it's just from a lack of nutrients and light. I have an empty 5 gal bowfront that I want to turn into a NPT. I'm a highschooler on a budget, so the NPTs seem perfect. There's a mini Whisper filter that I will use for water circulation, and I will probably put a sponge on the intake to slow it down. I plan on planting it heavily (I need to buy plants soon!) and using dirt from the yard with a gravel cap. I'm sure the soil here is good because I live in the countryside of a farming state, and I know the dirt I will use has not been chemically treated.

I don't have a heater for the tank, and I was wondering if a 25 watt heater would be fine (like the first three on this page: http://www.bigalsonline.ca/edealinv/servlet/ExecMacro?omni_scAdd=scAdd&nurl=control%2FBrowseCatalog.vm&eurl=control%2FBrowseCatalog.vm&rurl=control%2FBrowseCatalog.vm&ctl_nbr=3664&queryType=0&path=&offset=0&hits=&sortby=&query=25+watt+heater&submit.x=0&submit.y=0 ) Would it cook the aquarium?

Also, the bulb in the hood is burnt out, but it is a "tubular" type incandescent. I'm not sure how to tell if a new bulb will fit into the hood, but the burnt out one is about five inches long and an inch and a half or so wide. There are bulbs that look like it on this page: http://www.bigalsonline.ca/BigAlsCA/ctl3664/cp17944/cl0/pg1/pennplaxcrystaluxincandescentbulb25wattgreen/?oldParentID=&item_orderbydirection=DESC&item_orderby=csku_qsoldstore&ctl_nbr=3664&keys=&attrib_cnt=&attrib_search=&attrib_id_0=&attrib_value_0=&viewType=Category&specialOffers=&merchgroup=&isManufacturer=&pageSize=12&maxperpage= , like the All-Glass ones. Would a 15 watt incandescent bulb be enough for the 5 gal tank?

Eventually I want to put cherry shrimp and Malaysian trumpet snails in the tank, and maybe a small group of endlers. The water at my house has a very high pH, and it also goes through a water softener that is supposed to take out calcium, iron, and some other minerals. That's probably why plants wouldn't grow for me. I will be depending on the soil to provide those minerals.

The interesting experiment I am doing started about two weeks ago. Basically all the plants in my 75 were dying or down to just the roots, so I took as many of them out as I could, except for some vals that are basically dead and a moss ball that is actually doing really well. I took out some anubias (yeah, they were on their way out, too), crypts with no leaves, and what I think are a few dwarf sags that just have their roots. I put them in some plastic containers with dirt from the yard and a gravel cap, and an inch or two of water. Then I put them in my room (the only place to keep them, haha) under a 40 watt bulb and a 100 watt bulb that is in a reptile lamp that is basically a reflector. Both the lights are incandescent. I covered the tops of the containers with plastic wrap to keep moisture in.

Now the plants with no leaves previously are sprouting, even a couple of the anubias! I'm excited about that. The crypts seem to really love it, because it seems like I can see a day-to-day difference with them. The only plant not doing so well is a big anubias that had quite a few leaves, and now they're turning yellow or drying up. I think it's too dry for it, even though it is also covered in plastic wrap. Once I get the NPT up, I want to transfer these plants to it in addition to the ones I will buy for it.

Thank you so much for reading, and any advice or input you have will be very much appreciated!

~Kestrel


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## Kestrel (Mar 30, 2009)

Oh, I forgot to mention that the future NPT won't be getting sunlight... I hope I can make up for that in artificial light.


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## colinsk (Dec 29, 2008)

You will want to find a way to bypass you softener. Most softeners have a hose fitting ahead of the softener. If you put a 13watt CFL in a desk lamp above your 5 gallon it will be plenty of light. Check your ammonia levels before you add fish. You may have very high ammonia in your soil. That is not a problem but it will take some time to settle in and be safe for fish. 25 watts of heat should be fine.


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## Kestrel (Mar 30, 2009)

Thanks for the advice! I will definitely check the water before adding any creatures. I am wondering if a small CFL would fit in the hood, it looks about the same size as the old bulb but it would be easier to tell if I could actually hold it, haha. I don't think I can bypass the water softener, and my parents probably wouldn't let me. Hopefully the soil will have enough nutrients, and it seems to based on the rescued plants.


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## Kestrel (Mar 30, 2009)

I just bought a 10 watt CFL that has a white part as well as a blue part. Is this sufficient?
I also got a 25 watt heater and a thermometer, so now all I need to do is put the dirt and gravel in, and get plants!


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## colinsk (Dec 29, 2008)

Perhaps you can get water from your next door neighbor? If you have a good reflector 10 watts should be fine. If you don't you can make one from foil. Just make sure to keep the foil away from electricity.


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## Kestrel (Mar 30, 2009)

Oh, that's a good tip about the foil, maybe I will try that. I'm pretty sure the dirt will have enough metals because there tends to be clay deposits if you dig down a little bit. Do you think I should mix a _little_ bit of clay in, just to be safe? I know a lot of clay isn't good.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Kestrel said:


> Oh, that's a good tip about the foil, maybe I will try that. I'm pretty sure the dirt will have enough metals because there tends to be clay deposits if you dig down a little bit. Do you think I should mix a _little_ bit of clay in, just to be safe? I know a lot of clay isn't good.


I would use the pure topsoil that you've got. It will have plenty of iron and other trace elements.

The subsoil that you're talking about may have excessive acidity and heavy metals, which will harm plants. This is especially true since you're working with softwater that doesn't contain calcium to counteract the heavy metals.

If you're going to use your house's demineralized water, make sure that you provide enough calcium, magnesium, potassium, and bicarbonates. The soil may nor may not release enough into the water.

I would recommend reading my book. If you don't have it, you may be able to find it in your library. And, the used copies sold by Amazon.com aren't that expensive.


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## dianainOH (Mar 21, 2009)

If you have one of the water softeners that used a brine tank that you add salt pellets to, that might be part your problem. From what I understand these systems replace the other elements with sodium. We moved into a house with this type of system last fall, and my house plants started failing. Once I sat down and read the water softener manual, it advised that many plants could not tolerate the the softened water. I'm not sure how well the water will work for aquatic plants, but I opted to use unsoftened water, just in case. My system has a lever near the tank that you can turn to bypass the system. I just turn it off and let the water run for a couple of minutes. There are a couple of threads that mention water softened with sodium, and nobody seems to think it's a good idea.


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## Kestrel (Mar 30, 2009)

Wow, thanks for the advice, to both of you.

I will ask about possibly going around the water softener (it is a whole-house system, so that might be hard...), especially since it's only a 5 gal tank and once it's set up I won't have to do many waterchanges. I know we use salt for the softener, but other than that I know nothing, haha.

Would you suggest using crushed oyster shells mixed in with the soil? Or maybe play sand that has a lot of calcium, or even the substrate sold for cichlid tanks that is supposed to raise the hardness?

Thanks again for the advice, everyone!


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## Kestrel (Mar 30, 2009)

Alright, I just found out something interesting. I tested water from the faucet, from a spigot in the garage, from a spigot on the outside of the house in the front yard, and from the water with my "rescued" plants. The test strips use TH hardness, which I'm guessing is just Gh. Very interesting results:

Faucet: TH 0 (As expected, that's how it has always been, and that is what is used in the tanks.)

Garage: TH 0 (Apparently it's softened water! Not even my parents knew this.)

Front of the house: TH between ~180-240 ppm! Wow!

Water with "rescued" plants: TH ~240 ppm and 0 nitrates/nitrites

With all of them, the pH was still very high (8 and up...) as was the alkalinity (~240 ppm) and nitrates/nitrites were 0. 

This is a really interesting find, and now I have to figure out if the hardness with the "rescued" plants was skewed. There is a very small amount of water in there compared to the dirt, so that might have effected it. But still, it seems like the soil has enough to effect hardness. What do you all think?


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## colinsk (Dec 29, 2008)

In layman's terms a softener changes all of the ions that have a negative charge for chloride and all of the ions with a positive charge for sodium. In a perfect system it is the same as RO water with a bunch of table salt added. The problem with going back and adding minerals again is you can't remove the sodium chloride. Lot's of people add salt to aquariums for fish "health" so it is not likely too bad for the fish. Some plants don't like it as much.

When whole house systems are installed there is a water analysis done. Do you have a copy? I would be interested in your pre-conditioned analysis. It is possible to make a "salt" blend that would pick up the right areas of hardness. Something like adding Gypsum and Chalk to the water each time you change water. I have a water calculator I use for making beer but there are fish ones on line. If you want me to calculate a recipe I can but it would be better if I knew something about your water.

PS There can be a lot of sodium in softened water. This has been shown to increase the risk of heart disease. If you can switch your drinking water to unsoftened it would be better for your long term health. I have both waters at work and I like the taste of the softened water better and it is better with soap but I drink the hard water.


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## Kestrel (Mar 30, 2009)

Oh my, this is getting really complicated for me. Thank you for the advice, though. I was hoping I could just add soil and it would work, I'm not into the whole additives at every water change thing. I could get unsofted water from the outside faucet, but it doesn't have any temperature control, so I don't know what to do about that. I hope this whole thing doesn't turn out to be a waste of time and money for me, because I already bought the plants and supplies.


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## colinsk (Dec 29, 2008)

If you take water from the outside and use an aquarium heater to heat it up you will be fine. If your room is fairly warm you can just steal your tank heater for a little while. One day try to find a used 100 watt and it will do the job really fast.


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## Kestrel (Mar 30, 2009)

Thank you for the suggestion, that sounds like it would work. 

I ordered plants from Baylee's yesterday (I've bought from them before), and my only worry is that I will end up with _too many_ plants for my little bowfront! Haha. Especially since they do double bunches and you only pay for one! Sheesh. Ok, for plants I got: corkscrew val, Italian val, hornwort, ludwigia repens, hygrophila corymbosa 'Siamensis,' marisilea hirsuta, and lobelia cardinalis 'small form.' I'm not sure everything with do all that great, but I went with the NPT way and got a variety (or as much as I can pack into a 5 gal).

I was wondering though, how big I should let the "rescued" plants in my room get before putting them in. I know I would have to put in the big anubias that isn't doing so great, but all the other ones only have little leaflets (growing by the day, though). Would they be able to compete with the other plants well enough?

Thanks again to everyone who has offered advice, I really appreciate it!


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## nkambae (Nov 6, 2007)

I have a bit of a concern with your half white, half blue bulb. Is it half daylight, half actinic? In other words, is it a saltwater bulb? If it is, it might not work so well for growing plants. You should be able to head down to your local Walmart, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. They should have a good enough selection of screw-in compact fluorescent lights for you to find one that fits your hood. Get one that is a daylight bulb with a 5500-6500 kelvin rating (should be printed on the package). 13-15 watts should be fine for your ten gallon. 

Good luck and have fun. Try different things, check it out, and experiment. If you do try something new or change something in your aquarium, be patient. It takes some time for changes to become evident in your plants. There are some great aquarists on this forum with wealth of experience and knowledge so keep asking question and reading.

stu


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## Kestrel (Mar 30, 2009)

Thank you very much, Stu, especially for being so specific on the bulb. It actually turns out that the bulb I bought was a dud, it didn't work and I tried it in two different light fixtures.  I have to return it, and I can't find the bag it's in at the moment, but I'm pretty sure it said for freshwater and saltwater. I'll look for a different bulb when I return this one.

By the way, I love your pic! My dad and I like to tie flies.


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## Kestrel (Mar 30, 2009)

I just picked up a 15 watt CF bulb with 6500 K and it's daylight. It just barely fits into the hood, but it _does_ fit!


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## dianainOH (Mar 21, 2009)

Kestrel, You can get your water to the right temperature by microwaving some in a pitcher or bowl then mixing it with the cold in a bucket. That's what I've been doing. It works well and it's fast.


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## Kestrel (Mar 30, 2009)

That's a great idea, too! Thank you! 

I am very excited to get started when the plants come, and I will keep you all updated.


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