# Anacharis Melting?



## Franco

I've had tanks my whole life but for some reason doing my first natural planted tank has me feeling like I have to learn all over again.

I have a 3 week old NPT heavily planted with various crypts, a little wistera, anubias nana petite, ludwigia repens, xmas moss, and a bit of duckweed.

I haven't been experiencing as much growth as I thought I would so I wanted to add a faster growing plant that preferably could use all of my bicarbonates.

2 days ago I planted 10 stems of Egeria densa (Anacharis/Elodea) and they are melting!

The leaves have turned nearly transparent and lost most of their color and shedding. I've never had this happen with elodea in any other tanks before.

My ammonia is 0
Nitrites is 1.5 ppm --- i don't like them that high
Nitrates is 10 ppm
pH 7.8

Lighting is 2 GE 6500K 15W CFLs in an incandescent hood.

Dosing API ferts once per week.

Tank inhabitants are 1 male betta, 1 oto, 3 ghost shrimp, and a few snails.

Everyone seems fine except the bettas caudal fin looks like it has a couple big bites taken out of it and he is swimming kind of erratically. I think he either got himself snagged on the driftwood or the ghost shrimp are eating him while he sleeps. I'm at a loss.

Suggestions and comments please


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## davemonkey

What size tank is it? And what substrate did you use for this NPT. Your nitrates are high for NPT, how about you Phos and Potassium? With only 1 fish to feed, you may be too lean on nutrients other than nitrate. What is in API ferts (micros, macros or all) ?


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## Franco

It is a ten gallon. I used mineralized topsoil with an Activ Flora Midnight black cap (crushed lava rock).
I also noticed today that I have a nice crop of staghorn algae coming in along with some hair algae that I've been beating back with hydrogen peroxide.
I read that it likes low nutrients so maybe I need to dose more or get some excel.
The betta now has fin rot and a patch of fungus on one operculum. Fantastic!
I will probably move the betta back to his bowl and get some small tetras or something. I want to get some red cherry shrimp but didn't want to introduce them until I know the tank is stable.
The whole reason I wanted an NPT was so I didn't have to dose ferts!
I don't have test kits for K or P nor does any place around here sell them. The API ferts has potassium and Iron but no other micros.

I have some osmocote plus (N, P, K, and micros) that I could use but I was afraid to with my nitrites and nitrates at those levels. I'm to used to thinking about keeping nutrients low like you would with a non planted tank.

My Aquaclear 20 has the sponge, some floss for water polishing, and 2 bags worth of biomax media.

I did so much research and preparation for setting up this tank that I was expecting zero complications and perfectly smooth sailing. It is kind of disheartening. At first glance it really is a pretty tank so maybe I am just being too picky.


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## vicky

For high nitrites perform a water change. You may have too much light for the amount of nutrients. How long are the lights on? Do you use a siesta period? If not, try it. 4-5 hours on, 1-4 hours off in the middle of the day, and another 4-5 hours on. Is the tank in the sunlight? I would stick with fish food for ferts unless you have tested for a specific deficiency. If you are having algae, I would not add any iron containing ferts to the water column. Sorry about your Betta. Stick with it and the maintenance will come down. Three weeks is still a new tank and likely still needs water changes. Personally, I wouldn't use any bio media in the filter - the plants need the ammonia for food. You don't want your filter out-competing your plants.


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## dachewitt

Sorry your betta is sick. What looks like a fungus may be columnaris-I think most treatments will cover both. You caught it early so I hope he makes it. How is the oto?

I would do water changes to make sure there is no measurable NH3 or NO2, any amounts are stressful to fish. You already have nitrates so you have all the right bacteria established.

When I started my NPT I had hair algae and something else that was stringy that stuck so hard to leaves that it couldn't be pulled off, but after a few months, between the plants taking off and snails, I no longer have visible algae. It may just take more time.

Good luck, sorry you are having a rocky start.
Debbie


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## Franco

The oto is doing just fine. He is still running around cleaning everything. Shouldn't the oto be more susceptible to the water quality than the betta?
I was thinking and this betta is probably at least 2 years old. I've had bettas live up to 4 years store bought, 6 if they are fry I bred. It could just be that he is getting old and going to die soon anyways but I will definitely try to treat him.

The elodea is completely dead this morning. Its just a gelatinous mass clumped on the substrate. I have never had this happen with elodea before. It just seems weird. Its like when you overdose a tank full of vals with excel.


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## davemonkey

With mineralized topsoil, you should not need to add any ferts right now. Maybe some Potassium later, but not now. The extra iron is the cause of much of the algae, in my opinion (except what would be normal in a new set-up). 

I think you would benefit from an additional carbon source with the amount of light you have (either Excel or CO2), but you could just as easily reduce your photoperiod or do the siesta as mentioned above. I didn't see a photoperiod mentioned, but I'd start with 8 hrs for the first month and then increase 30 minutes per week until you have the photoperiod you want.

I've got no idea what could have happened to the Betta, very sorry to hear about that.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I've never been able to grow Elodea. I can grow alot of more "difficult" plants, but never had success with that one. :-s


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## Franco

Oh yeah I forgot my photoperiod.

I am running 5 hours on, 4 hour siesta, 5 hours on. It doesn't get sunlight. There is a glass or plexiglass divider between the lights and the tank surface which I think should cut down on lighting significantly so I am probably running on low-medium light. 

I can get one of those ready made DIY CO2 packages on clearance from Petco for $8. That sounds like it might be a good idea saving time and effort to build my own.

I don't want insane grown out of my plants because then I would have to dose and trim more but could I run DIY CO2 at a very low rate, providing just enough carbon to help out the plants a little but not make them bust out of the tank?

Do you have to shut off CO2 at night so the plants and fish don't suffocate?

I'd do excel but only one place around here stocks it and it is $20 for 100ml bottle.


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## vicky

It sounds like your tank isn't that bad. If the other plants are growing well, except for the anacharis, just plant more of the others. Possibly, the anacharis was grown in vastly different water, or was shocked too much on the way home, or even at the store before you brought it home. Perhaps you brought home ich or another problem with the plants or shrimp. CO2 won't help your Betta and adding it, especially DIY, will add complexity and the possibility of catastrophic results. If you want a trouble-free tank, I'd look for plants that like what you have rather than trying to change what you have to accommodate a specific plant.

For what it's worth, I have eight tanks - none with CO2. They are all a bit different. Specific plants will grow fine in one, but not in another. <shrug> NPTs typically don't need many water changes - if they are in balance. But if, for whatever reason, they get out of balance, water changes seem to be the first step in getting them back in order.


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## Franco

The tank really isn't that bad. At least I don't have green water or algae covering everything. 
I pulled out all of the disintegrating anacharis but I cut off the new little shoots that are still green and I am just letting them float around the tank.
I didn't really want to plant more crypts: 1- They are expensive 2- There isn't much room left in the tank. I have like 20 crypts plants in there already so I wanted something with some height like stems.
I know CO2 won't help the Betta but I was wondering if it would help the plants. I would rather not do CO2 because like you said--more complications.
You are correct in that I should just try different plants and see what works rather than make things more complicated by trying to get a certain plant to grow. I found a Petsmart today that actually has a wide variety of plants that the other stores in the area don't and they are NOT in the plastic tubes! All of the Petcos around here have live plants but they are limited and in sorry shape and the LFSs don't have much except amazon swords and hornwort.
The watersprite or wisteria that I have is taking off. I'm not sure anymore. The stuff that is rooted has started growing broader leaves and it looks like neither watersprite or wisteria. The leaves are still lobed but they are shallower than the stuff I have seen grown under high lighting.
I hit my staghorn and hair algae last night with a small dose of hydrogen peroxide but it didn't seem to have much effect except to stop it from growing more today. I didn't turn off the filter and I used a lot less peroxide than I have been doing to kill the hair algae so it probably just wasn't in contact with the algae that long.

I have decided to move the betta to other quarters and add more fish to the NPT to provide ferts.
I didn't see any fish I liked today at the Petsmart but I will keep looking this next week.
My wife wants guppies or African cichlids (haha! yeah right) but I think they are kind of boring but I am considering endler's (we have them often locally for sale).
I would rather have a small school of tetras or rasboras or something that won't get more than 1.5 inches and eat a lot of cherry shrimp. I'm not impartial to the old reliables such as neons and glowlights. 
Suggestions?


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## Franco

I was just looking online and the stuff I have might be wisteria or it could be Indian fern/Oak leaf watersprite (Ceratopteris cornuta). Its just kind of hard to tell when the leaves are so different under different lighting and nutrients.


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