# outdoor setup part1



## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

Here is the outdoor setup I am running.
I will be adding a submersible heater to it in the next couple of days to keep the water temp from flutuating too much at night.

Basically, I am seeing if I can grow swords outdoor in the summer without a greenhouse.

all the leaves are still submersed growth; it will be at least a week before they develop emersed leaves.

Photos taken on May 04, 2004

Add: This setup is running on jobes stick in the pot atm. substarate consist of 1/2" of gravel for the bottom, a mix of peat/sand for the middle portion, and more gravel to weight down the peat/sand mix at the top.

I will add 1/4 teaspoon plantex + B to the water soon. The tub is a DIY 9 gallon. approx outer diamension 22" by 22" by 5"


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Edge,

That's a cool experiment. I'm going to guess that your swords are going to be just fine. Many Echinodorus grow in areas where the mean low temp is below your summer temps up there. I've got some E. kleiner bar in some 10g tanks on my porch and they've survived light frosts and cold overnight temps. Not to mention, Neil Frank has an Echinodorus horemanii in his pond that's about 5 years old and is the Mother of All Huge Swords. I swear it winked at me and kept saying "feed me Seymour!" 

Please make sure to keep us updated on your progress. 

Best,
Phil


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## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

I was keeping the swords /w jobes stick in the sump tank of an indoor experiment for a week. The jobes stick must have leech into the water. It went from 0 algae to greenspot happy in a matter of days. I am growing glosso in the indoor experiment with no co2 addition. It occasional get 5 ml of seachem excel. 

That setup has been running on extremely high nutrients for a couple of months. I blindly dose the 75 Gallon mixture into the tub. I.e. 15+ ml of po4 (1 table to 500 ml mix), 1/4 teaspoon of KNO3. and 10+ ml of pmdd mix (2 table to 500 ml mix).

On a side note, I did not get any explosive algae. The setup has really high circulation. 9 gallon tank with 7 gallon of water in the sump. It is run by a powerhead 802 going up 2 ft into the air and into a spraybar covering the width of the tub.

I have the flow rate reduce by 1/2 with a 3/4 ballvalve. I didnt' want the substrate stirred up by the strong current.

That experiment is on idle right now, It went from an experiment to a storage tank for the cuttings from the 75G.


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## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

May 14, 2004 update.

Originally, I put 4 plants outdoor, 2 weaker plant and 2 healthy plant. The 2 weaker plants melted. I believe it has to do with bad drainage in the 2 pots. The water wouldn't drain from the pot when I lower the water in the tub. The water drain fairly well in the pots with the healthy plant.

I have replace it with an experimental plastic net/mesh pot with rockwool, sand, peat, and flourite substrate mix. 

I tested the new substrate mixture for drainage. All the water drained out of the pot the instant I took it out of the water. This is a lot better than the drainage from the pot with the healthy plants. Hopefully the 2 plants will recover from the melt. 

I will find out if drainage and confinement of roots in a clay pot have any affect on the speed and size of plant growth.


Most of the older leaves on all the plants are beginning to melt. The plants are still settling into the new substrate and will take some time and warmer weather to get it going.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Just out of curiosity, why not bring it in at night, it's still so cold at night... Why not do it indoors anyways?


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## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

No room and no lighting for it. It is hard to move a 130+ lb tub around.

If I just bring the pot in, The swords will dry up over night. I can't recreate the humidity of a dome inside


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Damn in your big house you have no room for that little tray? Make room my man! My emersed is on my Fathers Dinging room table till my new place is ready!!


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## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

Update: I added an ebo heater to the tub to keep the water warmer at night. The plant seems to be responding to the warmer water at night.
I will be taking the heater out farther into the summer season.


New photos will be ready at the end of this week.

We are in climate zone 8 area. That is 10f - 20 f hardiness. The idea is to see how far I can push the limit of a sword plant torlerence during the colder weather. 

Beside, why keep something indoor when it can be grown outdoor?


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

EDGE,

You're in zone 8? Where do you live? For some reason I thought you were in Canada.....

Best,
Phil


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

He is in Canada, in the lower mainland, Vancouver area.

Why grow something indoors that can be grow outdoors? Swords can't be grow outdoor here. Even in a modest Greenhouse like yours they are not doing well. They require heat & humidity to flourish that we do not have here 99% of the year. 

Why grow something outside at considerable expense that you can grow inside much easier? Only if you have no room, but you only have a very small setup, and I am sure if you really looked you could find somewhere to get it inside. It's just the lighting issue then. That is easily overcome. I think it's better to use artificial light as opposed to sunlight, because you have much more control over the conditions.


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## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

FYI: I can't build a greenhouse without a permit. Apparently, I can't have a tool shed without a permit either.

Check with the cityhall to see what limitation is in your area.

I am keeping it as a dome setup.

I use the below link to estimate at the zoning in the area I am from. 
Zone 8 is what I came up with. Correct me if I am wrong though.

http://www.mandevillegardens.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=guide.hardinessMap

small? The design is for a 2' by 8' setup. it is not that small.

I have come up with a way to go modify the setup to require level of heating and humidity at a minimal cost.

I will go into a price and expense breakdown in the future. I have it figure out, but I dont feel like typing it up for comparison. Indoor and outdoor setup are not that big of a difference with the initial setup price; however, the expense will be more for indoor setup when I calculated.


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Nah, you're right. The west coast is a lot more moderate than the rest of the country. You just threw me for a loop because where I am is zone 7 and I'm about 1300 miles south of where you are.  


Best,
Phil


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## MiamiAG (Jan 13, 2004)

Congratulations Phil! That was the 10,000th post.


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Do I get balloons and a gift certificate?


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## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

Redflame update is on the first post of this topic.

There is some tremendous growth after adding a heater to the tub. The nutrients dosage is a KISS method. 1/3 piece of jobes stick + the regular aquarium dosage formula of 1 ppm of PO4, 10 ppm of KNO3, 3 ml of Plantex + b (2 tablespoon to 500 ml of water) per week.


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