# Nutrient Deficiency in Calcined Clay Substrate and adding Calcium



## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

When I set up my new (first planted tank in over a decade) planted tank this past year, I decided to go with "Oil Dri", which is a calcined clay very similar (if not identical to) Saf-T-Sorb or kitty litter, or the like. Initially, things seemed all well, until I got in some Invitro _Cryptocoryne beckettii_. 
Up to this point I had been dosing between 1/4 and 1/2 the recommended EI doses, with moderate lighting, no CO2.
The new growth on the _C. beckettii_ came in quite pale, white-pink. I was ready to attribute it to some damage that may have happened in shipping (because they nearly froze...had a cold front come in while they were in transit, and the package say on my doorstep for several hours). However, some _Ludwigia palustris_ I locally collected also started showing signs of nutrient deficiency (pale new growth as well as pin holes). I then noticed pin holes in some of the _Bucephalandra sp_. plants. 
So, I upped my dosing to full EI (adding 1/2 the does, yet daily rather than every-other-day). 
After 2 weeks of this, and no results, I began adding EXTRA Micros and Potassium, which did nothing but spur on some algae. 
That was when it occurred to me that it MAY just be my substrate grabbing up everything, OR (and/or) the substrate had grabbed up all calcium, making uptake of other nutrients difficult. (I am not a chemist, nor do I play one on TV, so if what I just stated makes no sense, then correct me.)

Here's my "test" that's not really a test. I have ordered test strips and will take some measurements when they arrive. In the meantime, I am adding Calcium sulfate that I happened to have on hand (Seachem Equilibrium sitting on a shelf and taking up space...thought I would never need it because I use regular tap water in central Ohio). My hope is that I can add enough Calcium to satisfy the substrate, and then make nutrients more plant-available.

Photos to be posted in the following post.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Nutrient deficiencies:
Note that the swords are supposed to be large Amazons. They also have root tabs under them. (The crypts so as well, as of 5 days ago.)


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Adding root tabs might help. Newly planted Crypts always sit around for a long time before they take off.

Test your kH & GH. That'll tell you if your substrate is affecting the Calcium.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Test strips will be in my possession tomorrow.
Something else that may be a contributing factor: had a UV running for a couple weeks to get rid of green water, up until a week or so ago. Diana Walstad provided this in response to someone else considering a UV for green water treatment:
"The UV light destroys the chelators used to provide micronutrients, so it can cause iron deficiencies. (Plants only take up chelated or bound iron.) "

So, there's anther potential culprit. But that would not explain the swords. Those had already started growing with the twisted leaves and "tiger stripes" well before the green water outbreak. Yet, I also was not dosing much in the way of ferts, nor did I have root tabs when I first planted the swords...so who knows.

Will post the test-strip results once they are here.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

oh, I pull the crypt up a bit so the rosette is above the substrate, not buried in the substrate. Could cause melting.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

mistergreen said:


> oh, I pull the crypt up a bit so the rosette is above the substrate, not buried in the substrate. Could cause melting.


That may also be a factor. These particular specimens were tissue culture, so I kinda had to bury them a bit to keep them planted. Pulling them up a bit is something I can definitely do, now that they have some good roots on them.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi @davemonkey,

Specifically what are you using for micro-nutrients? Possibly CSM+B?

What is the pH of your tank?
-Roy


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @davemonkey,
> 
> Specifically what are you using for micro-nutrients? Possibly CSM+B?
> 
> ...


CSM+B , yes (and now root tabs in places as well).
pH is unknown as of yet. Will know that tomorrow. But local tap water is fairly mediocre. Water reports from local municipalities is at a range in the high 7s.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Got the test strips in (API 5-in-1) and tested my tap, as well as the 3 aquariums (which are at different stages, treated differently). 
Pretty sure it's NOT the substrate (which probably is helping), and rather an "oops" on my part, by dosing all my EI on the same days (a faint memory was confirmed last night as I re-read the reason we aren't supposed to dose micros (iron) at the same time as phosphates, which yields a product that plants won't be able to utilize).

Sadly, my tap water is pretty much the same as it was back in the Houston area many years back. The substrate helped with this (as you will see shortly in the test results), but over time that will buffer out.
The test strips report in ppm rather than degrees hardness. I am not 100% sure that I know how to convert, so I will put the result in ppm, and them guess at what degree Hardness that calculates to (divide by 17.8, or multiply by 0.056...or something like that).
The following results may not be super-accurate, as I have to assume some user-error on my part on reading tiny colored squares and trying to guess where they are on a tiny colored chart.

Here's what I got (post to follow):


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

*All aquariums are fairly heavily planted for what they are, and use the same "Oil-Dri" substrate*:

*Set 1 - Tap Water straight from the tap* (this is what I use for water changes, etc.)
GH - 100ppm (5.7 dH?)
KH - 220ppm (12.3 dH)
pH - 8.0
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 0

*Set 2 - Daughters' Guppy Tank* (5.5 gal) - 50% water change yesterday, and has had Equilibrium added in the past couple weeks; been established a couple months; 1/2 EI dosing (which now appears to be too much, given the NO3 following water change)
GH - 30ppm (1.7 dH)
KH - 190ppm (10.7 dH)
pH - 7.8
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 25

*Set 3 - Son's Betta Tank* (3.5 gal) -no recent water change, no Equilibrium; brand new (less than 1 week old); not fertilized until this morning after I took the readings
GH - 30ppm (1.7 dH)
KH - 120ppm (6.7 dH)
pH - 7.5
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 0

*Set 4 - 29 gal Community Tank* (with the plants exhibiting nutrient deficiency) - major (60%) water change last night to re-set things (plus it was due); well established; equilibrium added at least 3 times since set-up...not sure exactly how much; went from 1/2 EI to Full EI recently
GH - 80ppm (4.5 dH)
KH - 220ppm (12.3 dH)
pH - 7.8
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 5


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

So, I'm open to input. My plan will be to does 1/2 EI the 29 gal, and make sure to split days for micros and phos.
I also pulled my crypts up a bit (I think mistergreen is correct about keeping the rosette/growth point up from being buried).
After a week, I'll see what has happened. 

Anyone know whether it's possible to swap out some of the KNO3 with K2SO4 for my potassium source, while not sacrifice nitrate? I do have some liquid N (Flourish Nitrogen, also KNO3-based, but with Urea) that I can supplement. I am hoping that possibly adding more KSO4 will assist to lower the pH a touch...or at least keep it under control?
I am no longer able to get Fertilator to run, and I don't know how to calculate it out.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi @davemonkey,

Based upon the interveinal chlorosis one of the issues is the pH and the ETDA chelated iron in the CSM+B. Only about 5% of the iron in the CSM+B is available with a pH of 7.5. Continue to dose CSM+B but also dose Seachem Flourish Iron as directed which uses ferrous gluconate which plants can utilize at higher pH levels. -Roy


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Seattle, thanks for this! I wasn’t aware of how little of my iron was available at my pH. Kinda sucks, but I should not be surprised.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

I've been waiting till noon to dose nutrients. My CO2 usually cause the pH to be 6.8. I'm using CSM+B as well and the plants look good.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

mistergreen said:


> I've been waiting till noon to dose nutrients. My CO2 usually cause the pH to be 6.8. I'm using CSM+B as well and the plants look good.


So, what you're saying is, you are going to order me a CO2 system? [smilie=b:
Seriously, though, I have considered doing CO2 again. I remember doing this in Houston (I had a monster of a regulator and loved it) and I do recall some of my plant woes being eased after going pressurized. But I'm not quite ready for that plunge.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

I hear ya. I had gone without CO2 for 4 years and took the plunge in last summer.

I'm not going crazy with it either. I'm dosing around 15-20ppm, something you'd find in a Walstad tank. So I'm thinking I'd be out of CO2 in a year a two off a 20lbs tank.


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