# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Fluorite — Is it all you need?



## Mark Spencer (Apr 19, 2004)

Diana has convincingly demonstrated in her book that a substrate of planting soil topped off with gravel generates the needed minerals for plant growth.
According to my Drs. Foster & Smith catalogue Fluorte or Eco-complete can be used as the sole substrate. Indeed in my own 46 gallon tank I have had good, though not spectacular, success with 2 to 3 inches of Fluorite and fertilization tablets.
Have there been any comparisons between the "low tech" soil-gravel approach and the clay substrate approach (Fluorite, Eco-Complete, or Onyx)?
If fluorite is adequate by itself does vermiculite or laterite enhance the substrate's mineral content?
Mark Spencer


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## Mark Spencer (Apr 19, 2004)

Diana has convincingly demonstrated in her book that a substrate of planting soil topped off with gravel generates the needed minerals for plant growth.
According to my Drs. Foster & Smith catalogue Fluorte or Eco-complete can be used as the sole substrate. Indeed in my own 46 gallon tank I have had good, though not spectacular, success with 2 to 3 inches of Fluorite and fertilization tablets.
Have there been any comparisons between the "low tech" soil-gravel approach and the clay substrate approach (Fluorite, Eco-Complete, or Onyx)?
If fluorite is adequate by itself does vermiculite or laterite enhance the substrate's mineral content?
Mark Spencer


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

I've had some good results with a Fluorite only substrate and an otherwise "no-tech" aquarium.










I feel with substrates like Eco Complete and Flourite it's the age and amount of mulm that's accumulated that makes it work well in a Low/No Tech tank. Once it reaches that point though, it's pretty much a soil/gravel substrate.









Best,
Phil


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## Mark Spencer (Apr 19, 2004)

Phil (or Ludwig),
If a picture says a thousand words this one says a million and it seals the argument for me. That's one gorgeous tank!
How much mulm (if any) do you vacuum and do you fertilize the substrate with tabs or any "low tech" additions such as potash or magnesium sulfate. As an aside: what is your lighting?
Thanks,
Mark Spencer


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

I can't say anything about Eco-complete.

A new, plain Flourite substrate is about as good as plain gravel. It doesn't provide many nutrients; those have to be supplied with added chemicals. That changes a little as the substrate matures. Mulm and detritus build up in the substrate and it gets more fertile. On the other hand, exactly the same things happens with plain gravel. Give gravel 6 months and it grows plants pretty well.

Flourite is a better planting medium than gravel. It's lighter, easier to work with and holds roots very well.

I've never heard anyone refer to potash or magnesium sulfate as low-tech additions.


Roger Miller


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## Mark Spencer (Apr 19, 2004)

I may be "all wet" on my definition of low-tech. In my mind: If it comes in a bottle and is manufactured by a aquarium company and it has a trademark then it is "high tech." If it costs less than $4 and I buy it at my local nursery it's "low tech." As I understand it, using commonly available chemicals such as potash, calcium carbonate and magnesium sulfate are cheap alternatives to the same chemicals being sold in mixtures strictly for aquarists. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The advertisements for fluorite claim that it has a higher iron content than gravel; high enough to eliminate the need for laterite. It sounds like Roger believes this is marketing hype and that its only advantage is its low density. Is there a second on this?
These questions are more than academic. I am planning on upgrading my aquarium to a larger one and would like to know whether or not to add a soil base underneath the fluorite I already have.
Thanks,
Mark Spencer


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Mark, fertilizer is fertilizer regardless of whether you mix it or someone else mixes it. It's the same level of tech either way. "Low tech" would be no fertilizer save for the nutrients provided by fish feeding and (maybe) water changes.

I voiced my view on iron in Flourite and other substrates in an earlier thread (previous page in the forum) called "Substrate Iron." You might find that thread interesting.


Roger Miller


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## Avalon (Mar 7, 2005)

I agree with Roger and Phil on this one. I'm becoming dissapointed with Flourite the longer I use it. I don't think that it's all that great myself.

I only get luscious plant growth when the substrate matures, about 6 months or so. Commercial substrates are overrated IMHO, but it's possible they can help...but at $20 a bag I don't think it's worth it. The finest substrate I've ever used was plain soil mixed with vermiculite and topped with sand (no substrate ferts). It's messy, and not for stem plants lovers (because of the constant uprooting of the stem plants).

BTW, I would not use vermiculite with anything but soil. Vermiculite floats exceptionally well and can make a big mess until well established.


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## Mark Spencer (Apr 19, 2004)

Let's see if I understand:
We know that soil is a combination of inorganic minerals mixed with organic detritus from decaying vegetation. So if I put fluorite or any other gravel in a planted tank in time (app. 6 months) the mulm from the plants will provide the organic component and, voila, we have soil.
There appears to be a mixed review of fluorite. It's major benefit is that it contains more iron than gravel though that iron may not be available to plant roots. Diana Walstad answered a query in the same forum about mixing fluorite and soil. She guessed that the acid from the soil would release too much iron from the fluorite. It therefore appears that knowledgeable people like Roger, Diana and Phil are suggesting that
a. Fluorite by itself is good (if you wait 6 months for the mulm to accumulate and make soil) OR
b. that soil and ordinary gravel are good as they provide plenty of iron BUT
c. Fluorite over a soil base is not goood.
Is this an accurate assessment?
I still would like to know, when setting up a new tank, to set it up with a base of fluorite or Eco-Complete or a base of soil topped with gravel.
Thanks,
Mark Spencer


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## Wally (Aug 31, 2003)

For what it worth, I have gotten the best results with Wal-Mart Kitty litter topped off with playsand its cheap and works great.

I sell a lot of my extra plants at local fish club auctions, at these auctions you egt much more $$$ for your plants if they have white healthy roots, with this method I get long snow white roots with tons of very fine root hairs, far better than the roots I got when I tried (and then got rid of) flourite.

But my biggest beef with flourite is how dirty and messy it is, for what they charge for it, they should prewash it. Its amazing how a $1.99 bag of playsand is prewashed but a $20 bag of flourite is filthy with dirt, and sticks in it.


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Mark,

I don't know about layering soil and Flourite. Rather than layering them I would mix a small amount of soil with the lower part of a Flourite substrate. By small amount, I mean 5% to 10%. I think Tom Barr mixed peat or potting soil (can't recall which) with the lower part of a Flourite substrate and liked the result.


Roger Miller


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