# "Salt and Heat" for Ich treatment



## Mad Dog (Mar 3, 2007)

Please forgive me if this is an unusual post, or if it seems a bit 'out of the blue'. I am obviously a new member to this forum, and very new to the planted aquarium side of this hobby, however, I recently wrote some posts to another thread about the treatment of Ich which apparently ruffled some feathers. In fact, it was enough for one member to PM me asking for either a public apology for my comments, or some 'empirical evidence' of my claims. So, this is my public reply to that.

Like I said, I am new to planted tanks and obviously new to this forum, but I am not new to the hobby and have kept tanks of almost every other sort other than planted versions. I have dealt with Ich three times, once I used quick cure and lost all but a few of my livestock, and another time I relied solely on UV filtration...which is another subject entirely...but lost no fish or inverts in a saltwater tank, and finally, used the 'salt and heat' method, in a freshwater tank, with I felt was probably slower than using meds, but it certainly worked for me. To add to that, I have been a part of a forum or two, one I am still highly involved in, and have read literally hundreds of posts on this subject of salt and heat, and truly believe that it works and can show scientific evidence, coupled with resources centered on this hobby as a whole which would support my previous comments.

What I said was, in short, that using sodium chloride in the amount of 0.05%, meaning 0.05% of the water is made of dissolved sodium chloride, is an effective ich treatment. Obviously, I am speaking of freshwater ich and never once did I say that I am 100% sure that this is the best thing for a planted tank...however, it may be ok, and if not, fish can be quarantined out of the planted tank for treatment if the plants would suffer. Anyways...here is my reply:
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First, I am not talking about a specific gravity when I say that adding salt to a level of 0.05% in your fish tank will help rid your tank of salt. To help explain, lets look at how those with saltwater aquariums look at the amount of salt he or she adds to his or her tank. First, you have to know that you can look at this in two ways....salinity and/or specific gravity. Salinity is measured in parts per thousand (ppt). Specific gravity is simply a measurement of the density of water, but always in reference to one type of matter...like salt.

Ocean water, which is saltwater, is comprised of about 3.5% salt (different types of salt...not just sodium chloride as we are talking about here). Using this site as a reference: www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/earth/Water/dissolved_salts.html&edu=high So, in comparison to ocean water, with 3.5% salt in it, 0.05% salt in freshwater is very minimal. If ocean water equals 35,000 parts salt per 1,000,000 parts H2O, then we would be talking about 500 parts sodium chloride per 1,000,000 parts H2O if my quick math is right. According to the website above, this would still be one half the amount of salt required to make a solution which is considered 'slightly saline'. The point is, in the wild, your fish could easily come in contact with water which has 0.05% salt in it from whatever source you can think of...it doesnt matter.

Ok, now Ich....it is a parasite, we agree on that? It is not a bacteria, not a fungus, but a protozoa. In fact, and more importantly, it is a ciliate protozoa...and before you jump all over me, I realize that wikipedia is not the most reliable resource available, but in this case, they make an easy to understand explaination here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciliate .... Why important? Because they are found in water...not air. So, this supports the idea that if you kill all the Ich protozoa in a closed system, like a fish tank, it cannot come back unless it is readded somehow. For us, usually inadvertantly from bringing home new fish which have been in a tank with Ich in it. Agreed?

So, Ich has three lifestages it goes through. Lets start with the most common lifestage, the Mature trophozoite stage in which the parasite forms a protective shell (more or less) which we see as white spots on a fish. The second stage, which we dont see simply with our eyes, the "pustule ruptures, the freed trophozoites spread throughout the water and eventually settle to the bottom of the aquatic environment. The cilia of the trophozoite secrete a thick cyst coating around the trophozoite, which undergoes a series of divisions, producing hundreds (maybe thousands) of cells" (Michigan State University, n.d.). Once divided, the third lifestage occurs in which the new Ich protozoa (now called Tomites most commonly) search for, find, and attach to a host...starting this whole circle again. This is why it is usually recomended to treat for Ich long past the time the last white spot falls off....there could be Ich in the tank which you cannot see and is waiting to form more white spots. Salt is not the exception to that rule of thumb, nor is any medication.

So, most people are told that by adding things like Malachite Green or products which contain it and other like chemicals, they are effectively removing those white spots from his or her fish. This is not true though. "Of the life stages shown, only the free-swimming tomites are susceptible to chemical treatment" (University of Florida, n.d.). This debunks one of the myths commonly associated with Ich. Now for the heat and salt part...

How to prevent Ich using quarantine and temperature...which IMHO, is the best treatment one can use...A pound of prevention is worth a ton of cure, again, IMHO.

"Prevention of "Ich" is preferable to treating fish after a disease outbreak is in progress. All incoming fish should be quarantined for at least three days when temperatures are 75 to 83°F. At cooler temperatures a 3-day quarantine will be inadequate for "Ich" because of its lengthened life cycle. For this reason, and to prevent introduction of other diseases which have incubation periods greater than 3 days, a longer quarantine is strongly recommended. Three weeks is generally considered a minimum period for adequate quarantine of new fish" (University of Florida, n.d.).

Hence, if you can quarantine with a higher water temp to speed up the Ich lifecycle, you can do the same for the treatment of it in a main tank (they dont know the difference between a quarantine tank or a display tank, honestly):

Water temperature has a tremendous influence on how fast the life cycle for "Ich"... is completed. At warm temperatures (75-79°F), the life cycle is completed in about 48 hours, which means that chemical treatments should be applied every other day. At cooler temperatures the life cycle is prolonged and treatments should be spaced further apart. For example, at a water temperature of 60°F, treatments should be spaced 4 or 5 days apart. In warm water, a minimum of three treatments applied 2 to 3 days apart is required. In cooler water, a minimum of five treatments should be applied 3 to 5 days apart. Treatments should never be discontinued until all mortality from "Ich" has stopped. Fish should be closely watched during recovery; the weakened fish may be susceptible to a secondary bacterial infection (University of Florida, n.d.).

And yes, malachite green and formalin (which is Formaldehyde, the same chemical used to embalm people...sounds great for adding to a fish tank, right? You can see proof here: http://www.geocities.com/koifla/Formalin.htm, along with a lot of other sites...just search for "formalin") do work on Ich, that is not being disputed:

"The choice of chemical used to treat "Ich" will be based upon water quality conditions, species of fish to be treated, and the type of system fish are housed in. In general, copper sulfate, formalin, and potassium permanganate are all effective against "Ich" when applied at the correct concentration in a repetitive manner as described above" (University of Florida, n.d.)

What I am saying is that IN MY OPINION, I would rather treat Ich with something that will not dye my fish tank green (which malachite green is simply a dye which is often used in the textile industry. Look here for proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malachite_green and to top that off, even many aquaria sites state that Malachite Green is a dangerous chemical, and outlawed by many countries, including the United States for use on fish which are intended for food: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/malachitegreen.htm ...read under "Common Names".) or embalm my fish unknowingly. For that, I suggest the use of common salt...table salt...sodium chloride...NaCl...kosher salt...edible salt...you get the gist, right?

Why salt? Simply as I said, it is a more 'natural' additive you can use...and yes, as I started out this post with, it can be naturally found in freshwater...and is not nearly as harsh as trying to kill Ich with something that can also kill your fish (agreed, you would have to overdose...but that happens all the time, more often than it should anyways). Check these SCIENTIFIC studies out...not meerly some hack who is new to the forum who claims to know things others don't:

"The objective of this study was to evaluate different salt concentrations in the treatment of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. Silver catfish, Rhamdia quelen, fingerlings infected with I. multifiliis were submitted to four sodium chloride concentrations (g/L): 0, 1, 2, and 4 for 23 days. In a second experiment, fingerlings were maintained with 4 g/L salt, but for 45 days. Treatments with 2 and 4 g/L salt significantly increased fingerling survival compared with 0 and 1 g/L, and survival was significantly correlated with salt concentrations. In the second experiment, fish maintained at 4 g/L salt showed a gradual reduction of "white spots" and survival was 100%. Therefore, salt offers an alternative for treatment of silver catfish fingerlings infected with I. multifiliis" (Hawthorn Press, 01/01/03)

Check out this website, written by an aquarist, on the same information I am giving you as far as the lifecycle of Ich and the salt and temp method (about half way down the page):
http://www.fish-disease.net/articles/understanding_ich.php (This article is posted on a TON of aquaria forums!)

Here is GREAT information about this salt and heat treatment....read this article carefully! The author is TOTALLY against using salt in a freshwater fish tank! Yet, he then goes on to say EXACTLY what I am telling you right now:

"True, the use of salt, usually accompanied by increased temperature, is an effective treatment for one of the most common ectoparasite which beginning aquarists encounter ... Ichthyophthirius multifiliis, or Ich. However, only the free-swimming form of this parasite is treatable."
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article22.html
Again, this article is posted all over the aquaria forums as well! 
http://www.practical-pet-care.com/fish_question.php?ID=3.908575312

This pretty well known 'expert' on freshwater puffers, as far as what I have observed, also spends a lot of time busting the myth of adding salt to a freshwater aquarium, however, in the very last sentence of this article, goes on to point out that salt is an effective treatment for an 'acute infection'&#8230;which in English, means "acute" simply means "Acute often also connotes an illness that is of short duration, rapidly progressive, and in need of urgent care" (www.medterms.com) and the infection of a parasite would be included and what I feel this author is getting at:
http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/water/salt.html This author also points out that the tiny amount of Iodine in table salt will not impact your tank as some may think or otherwise advertise. (Go ahead, read it!)

So, here is my point, and what I have been saying this entire time&#8230;and put me to the test if you would like on any other issues you disagree with me on&#8230;as it pertains to treating Freshwater Ich (separate from Marine Ich which is totally different), you can substitute malachite green or any other medicines with the Salt AND Heat treatment. It is a combo deal though, ok? First, as pointed out, a slightly higher temperature in an aquarium which is experiencing a infestation of freshwater Ich will greatly shorten the amount of time in which the white spots will remain on your fish, and help get the white spots into their next lifecycle, where they would reproduce and become vulnerable to treatment&#8230;in which case, you can use Table Salt or Sodium Chloride as a treatment which is much more natural and less toxic to fish than MG or Formalin. Why is this not advertised by your LFS? Because table salt is not their main income source and the bottom line is that they want to make a profit and I don't blame them. Case in point&#8230;why did that same LFS probably tell you that you can keep fish after cycling your tank for 3 days with just water in it? Because they are making a repeat customer without you knowing it at the time. Thankfully we have that figured out now, and so we get on forums like this one to help others skip that same mistake and spread experiences and information. Which is all I am trying to do, period. I have already said that you don't have to believe me or listen to me and I am 100% not trying to get the world to change so that everyone agrees with me and/or listens to me&#8230;although that would make the world a better place! (at least for me anyways!)

What I am NOT sure of, is how plants are affected by salt and I have been clear about that from the start. Many many many websites and people say that plants cannot handle much salt&#8230;which I can see&#8230;but what amount is 'much salt' versus the amount they can handle? Going full circle (like Ich) back to the start of this amazingly boring post, is 0.05% or 5 ppt (just to guage that number against, a brackish water tank might be in the 16 to 18 ppt range where a saltwater tank would most likely hover around 30 ppt, or in my own tanks' cases, 32 ppt)

For the record, I was asked to justify my comments, and cite sources for them all by a member of this forum. I was asked to apologize to that member in public if I could not come up with those citations and references, which I feel I have done, however, I will still apologize for appearing to sound like a 'know it all' or if I was trying to talk down on anyone on this forum. I certainly was not trying to do that, and I hope that in the future, members can 'hear' my sincere tone rather than assume that I am on par with President Bush or Vice President Cheney on how much I lie to the public.

Resources
For time concerns, please allow me to skip the complete APA format citations and simply give you the links to follow to those quotes which do not have a direct link next to them:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA006 (University of Florida article)
http://www.cvm.msu.edu/courses/mic569/docs/parasite/ick.html (University of Michigan, Center for Veterinary Medicine article)


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

Wow! This is a great post! Thank you from a beginning fish keeper.


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## gacp (Sep 11, 2006)

Yes, this has been known for quite a while.

I remember myself having used it once, as a teenager, on 6 wild-caught young _Australoheros facetus_. They got ich when the got home, fresh from the pond, and I was out of medication and out of $$$. Table salt (0.5 g/l, I belive?), and 32º C---ich was gone in 5 days. Kept it 2 more days, JIC.

Only problem was, by the end of the week of treatment, I had 2 pairs in full breeding color, fighting each other and making life miserable for the other 2 fishes. Nothing is perfect, I guess. ;-)


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## tkos (Oct 30, 2006)

Having delt with Robert T Ricketts (aka RTR, the author from the Puffer Forum link), I can honestly say that he is a wealth of knowledge and a great aquarium myth buster. He also has a massive fish room with many tanks, most of which are planted low tech setups.

Thank you Mad Dog for taking the time to write this out.


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## argblarg (Aug 10, 2006)

Nice post. I used heat only and was successful, but will certainly use salt next time after reading this.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

85F Heat + salt should be 99% effective if started at the *first sign* of white spot. A delay of 24 hour can kill weak fish. I have yet to see any issue with livestock and plant at a concentration of two teaspoons per ten gallons. Tougher plants like anubias can handle up to three teaspoons per ten gallons.

I usually build up to three teaspoons per 10 gal by the 3rd day, then change 50% of the water on the 4th. This will bring the concentration down to 1.5 teaspoon per 10 gal. Maintain the tank in this state for another 10 days. Plain table salt at supermarkets will suffice. Iodized table salt is also acceptable in a pinch. Remember that time is NOT ON YOUR SIDE!

At the end of this treatment, change 50% of the water and return the tank to the normal temperature.

To reduce stress on livestock which could cause white spot, keep the bag between 75F and 85F when transporting fish from the store to your home.


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## miles (Apr 26, 2006)

i was the one whose feathers were ruffled. this is how mad dog did so: i posted my experiences using meds to treat a persistent case of ich in my planted tank; my last comment was "sufficient salt to kill off the ich would certainly kill my crypts and probably some inverts." dog quoted that same comment in his reply, to which he responded, "but this statement is not completely correct."

so i called him out on it. i asked him to provide empirical evidence that salt at 5ppt is not damaging to plants. he cites the efficacy of salt, which i do not dispute (actually i have used salt in fish only tanks with great success), but he fails to show that plants are not affected by salt at that concentration. despite his efforts he failed to make that critical distinction.

in this new post he equivocated, "...and never once did I say that I am 100% sure that this is the best thing for a planted tank..." so why say that my statement was "not completely correct"?

by the way, mad dog, what is the ppt of a 2g salt per liter solution?

i like this statement the best: "...and I hope that in the future, members can 'hear' my sincere tone rather than assume that I am *on par with President Bush or Vice President Cheney on how much I lie to the public*." this was in response to my statement, "you can't dispute a fact with an opinion, unless you are george w. bush or **** cheney."


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## Minsc (May 7, 2006)

A question from the less scientifically minded of us: How much salt, ie: teaspoon per gallon are we talking here? I personally have never dealt with Ich, but have been assured many a time that I will have to at some point. I would like to know as much about effective treatments as possible.

I would imagine that salting a planted tank in a concentration great enough to kill plants would be counterproductive, in that dying plants are going to foul the water tremendously, not helping the fish fight off a parasite in addition to ruining a lovely aquascape.

On a side note, my experience with cories, a species thought to be sensitive to salt, can handle 1 tbl. per 5 gallons without complaint. Please don't ask how I know this, I had only been keeping fish a short while...


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## Mad Dog (Mar 3, 2007)

> so i called him out on it. i asked him to provide empirical evidence that salt at 5ppt is not damaging to plants


You are taking that comment out of context...I was saying that inverts can handle the salt and I go on to tell about how I put ghost shrimp directly from a freshwater fish tank into my saltwater tank (as food) and they lived for days, maybe longer if they wouldn't have gotten eaten. Here is exactly what I said...with the words you may not have noticed highlighted for you...
Your Comment:


> sufficient salt to kill off the ich would certainly kill my crypts and probably some inverts.


My Reply:


> Not to drag this topic up again...but I have concerns about others who may read this statement and base an opinion on it or take it as a fact...and again, I don't mean to always be disagreeing here, but this statement is not completely correct IMHO and IME


I then go on to state:


> First, the amount of salt needed to kill off FW ich is much less than a lot of people, and maybe yourself, might think. A salinity of .05% in a freshwater tank is sufficient enough to kill Ich and that level is without a doubt still considered freshwater...in fact, when not in captivity (i.e. still living in a lake, stream, pond, etc...), most fish probably see this amount of salt on a regular basis.
> 
> It is also true that your ghost shrimp, like a few other fish and inverts, can be acclimated to a saltwater environment and live for quite some time...and yes, I realize that there is an almost identical shrimp to the ghost shrimp which is a true marine species and I am not confusing them. In the past, I kept a 'predator' type saltwater aquarium and fed ghost shrimp regularly...even with just taking them out of FW and into a full SW environment, they lasted days, if not weeks sometimes. I would also be relatively willing to bet that they could have lasted longer, if they were not eaten.


NOTE: There is not one reference to how plants can handle salt....it all pertains to fish and inverts. I would also venture to say that copper based meds would be those which kill off inverts, but salt will not.

The point here is not to argue with you and your 35 years of experience...that is great for you and someday I hope to have that many years under my belt myself...but experience is not what is in contention here. I am simply trying to help others out by pointing out that there is a more 'natural remedy' to Ich and not only do I feel that I gave sufficient evidence of that, but also evidence that others would agree with that statement. I know, and what I hope you can see, is that I did not make this up myself, I am simply passing it along.

There is evidence from multiple sources in my original post that Malachite Green is also toxic to fish, like it is Ich. Those sources are not even completely focused on fish tanks and the related hobby. So, you can say that Malachite Green works...and I would agree, completely and whole-heartedly. However, in turn, I can say that salt and heat works...which others agree with and to be honest, you dont have to. However, I feel that I am just trying to be apart of this forum, add what I can, and take what I can as well. I don't want any problems and I am sorry if you are 'hearing' my words as being condescending. It is not my intent at all. But yet, I am greeted by your private messages when I log in to the site and dont really understand why that is??? I think that most members here would also take offense to your private comments such as:



> like i said, i have 15 years experience in planted tanks, 17 years experience in reef tanks, and a total of more than 35 years as an aquarium enthusiast. you are a newbie as far as im concerned, and for you to post such info is talking down to me and many many others.


If you want to call me a newbie, they fine...I am compared to you and I accept that. However, if I am stating information, why is that 'talking down' on anyone? It is information, not simply opinion as I pointed out in my first post here.

Does this mean that 'newbies' are not accepted on this forum? I appologize for stepping on anyone's toes and will not come here anymore.


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## miles (Apr 26, 2006)

Mad Dog said:


> You are taking that comment out of context...I was saying that inverts can handle the salt and I go on to tell about how I put ghost shrimp directly from a freshwater fish tank into my saltwater tank (as food) and they lived for days, maybe longer if they wouldn't have gotten eaten. Here is exactly what I said...with the words you may not have noticed highlighted for you...
> Your Comment:
> 
> My Reply:
> ...


newbies are more than welcome on this board. it's just that you come here with a know-it-all, condescending attitude. your explanation about only referring to inverts and fish is particularly weak. note my statement was, "sufficient salt to kill off the ich would certainly kill my crypts and probably some inverts." who is talking about fish? seems to me you are the one taking things out of context. look at my less than confident statement about inverts and look my strong assertion about crypts "certainly" being affected. you lack basic understanding that crypts are rather sensitive to varying water conditions, because of your lack of experience with planted tanks. so why come here and act that what you learned in fish only systems applies to planted tanks? that's my gripe and my beef with you, dog, no more, no less.

if you choose not to post here again, that's your choice. it might be better if you give advice or dispute info given to newbies on fish only discussion boards. if you want to learn about planted tanks, try to be humble and learn all you can here and on other boards. ask questions, ask posters to clarify points. people really do want to help, but if you have the attitiude, "I don't mean to always be disagreeing here", then talk out of your other end, expect people to call you on it. this happens on all boards.​


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

Minsc said:


> A question from the less scientifically minded of us: How much salt, ie: teaspoon per gallon are we talking here? I personally have never dealt with Ich, but have been assured many a time that I will have to at some point. I would like to know as much about effective treatments as possible.
> 
> I would imagine that salting a planted tank in a concentration great enough to kill plants would be counterproductive, in that dying plants are going to foul the water tremendously, not helping the fish fight off a parasite in addition to ruining a lovely aquascape.
> 
> On a side note, my experience with cories, a species thought to be sensitive to salt, can handle 1 tbl. per 5 gallons without complaint. Please don't ask how I know this, I had only been keeping fish a short while...


Healthy cardinals can handle three tablespoons per ten gallons for three days. I use this treatment cure fungus infection. The key is to gradually increase/decrease the concentration over three days. Most plants will start to deteriorate above three teaspoons per ten gal if exposed beyond the 3rd day.

Note that the amount of "lethal" salt for fish or plant can vary due to the condition/type of fish/plant. 85F heat + 1.5 teaspoon of salt per 10 gal should be very effective and safe for many FW tanks. The key is to continue this treatment for another week when no more white spot is observed in the tank.


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## Mad Dog (Mar 3, 2007)

I dont know it all...but I know about this and every other post to this thread basically supports that. I gave you your evidence, so what do you want? You cannot say that anything I have said in this post is wrong or an opinion based upon fact. If you can find the quote where I say 'salt is fine for a planted tank', then I will give you every single 'fish only' tank I own...


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## miles (Apr 26, 2006)

Mad Dog said:


> I dont know it all...but I know about this and every other post to this thread basically supports that. I gave you your evidence, so what do you want? You cannot say that anything I have said in this post is wrong or an opinion based upon fact. If you can find the quote where I say 'salt is fine for a planted tank', then I will give you every single 'fish only' tank I own...


this is the only line you quoted from my post to start you reply: sufficient salt to kill off the ich would certainly kill my crypts AND probably some inverts.

this is how you responded to my remark about killing crypts AND probably some inverts:
Not to drag this topic up again...but I have concerns about others who may read this statement and base an opinion on it or take it as a fact...and again, I don't mean to always be disagreeing here, but this statement (about killing plants AND inverts) is not completely correct IMHO and IME.

since my statement carried two issues, plants and inverts, to say that "this statement is not completely correct imho and ime" suggests to me that you don't belive that plants AND inverts would be harmed by therapeutic levels of salt. so while not saying it directly, you implied it nonetheless.

so, how many fish only tanks do you have?


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## Mad Dog (Mar 3, 2007)

> since my statement carried two issues, plants and inverts, to say that "this statement is not completely correct imho and ime" suggests to me that you don't believe that plants AND inverts would be harmed by therapeutic levels of salt


No....I said that IMHO and IME, that statement of yours is not COMPLETELY correct...meaning that some of it is correct, or that I dont know enough to agree or disagree with you on one certain aspect of that comment. Again, the key word is COMPLETELY...I am sorry if you took that as me saying you are totally wrong, but please dont try to 'read between the lines' or second-guess what I am trying to say. Just like a paragraph, or essay, there are key parts to what I said. First, the intro...I dont completely agree with that statement...second the main 'body' in which I describe my hypothesis and give reasons for why I made that hypothesis. The only thing that is missing is the conclusion, which would let us get off this embarrassing (IMO) pulpit and start to find some common ground. ...and 'since your statement carried two issues', and I only addressed one of them, it would be reasonable to assume that I either agree with you on the plants portion, or dont know enough to comment about that. There is also no implying towards anything on my part since again, the logic would be that I am disagreeing with the invert portion.

I think that it is also safe to say that I did take a humble approach to m y comments because I first apologize for seeming to disagree too often on that subject...which also does not imply that I disagree on any or every topic that was ever brought up.

And because I neglected to answer this question of yours:


> by the way, mad dog, what is the ppt of a 2g salt per liter solution?


 let me do that here then. The answer is....it depends. If we are talking about table salt, then you would have 2,000 mg/L, or 2000 ppm, so it would be 2 ppt. However, in case this is a trick question, that would change ever so slightly if you are adding a salt mix such as marine salts because they also contain elements other than salt.

I have five tanks up and running right now and the only one I have which is "Fish Only" is a 10 gallon fry tank which is full of yellow lab fry. Since you still cant quote me, I will be keeping it though. I also have a 29 gallon bio cube with live rock, two clown fish, a Sebae anemone, two mandarin dragonettes, and belive it or not...saltwater plants! I have a 90 gallon reef tank as well. I also use another 10 gallon tank as a q-tank right now for a mandarin dragonette which origonally was in my 90 gallon before it got sick with what I think is velvet. Last but not least, I also have my 55 gallon planted tank now. So....while in comparison with you, I am relatively new to the hobby, however I am by no means a complete 'newbie' to the hobby (only to planted tanks as you point out a lot) and have been through a lot of fish and tanks of one sort or another. I am also getting a pretty good handle on freshwater plants as well so my 'newbie' status should change soon. These tanks are also why I know a lot about Ich and other common items which are not solely related to plants, which is what I had hoped to pass along as a way to help those who are like me...on this forum to seek advice and information. You can top that off with my education experience that has left me with a relatively good idea on how to research and verify information.

What this is boiling down to, as I have been saying from the start, is that you dont belive me and that is absolutely fine. This entire 'episode' began becasue you more or less asked me to substantiate my claims here...which I think I did based upon those resources I posted and from the lack of disagreement by other members who have posted to this thread. However, now I see that the conflict has changed and it is all based upon what you feel is disrespect on my part for disagreeing with you and how exactly it was that I disagreed with you. This point is also mute though since other members have already stated that salt can be used in a planted tank and we are not arguing about if your tank is the exception because of the crypts, but rather talking about planted tanks in general...which was also the topic that you origonally posted that comment about killing plants and maybe inverts. Again, there too it was not about a planted tank with 'crypts' in it but just about 'ich experiences'.


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