# Does everyone use GFCI?



## Manwithnofish (Mar 12, 2008)

Just wondering after installing a new Hydor-Koralia in my tank? How many people get electrocuted each year from sticking electric devices in a tank of water and then sticking their hands in, frequently? 

Up until I got this aquarium, I would have never stuck my hands into water with an electric device running in it...that's just dumb!

I guess I should start unplugging everything before I stick my hands in. That just seem like a total pita (just not as much as a good 110 volt jolt). If I die, will my fish die with me? I have three devices in my tank plugged into 110vac. Maybe I should put all these on a power strip and throw the switch ...that can't be too much trouble. But the power strip would still need to be plugged into a GFCI, :tape2:

Is everyone plugging their devices into GFCI outlets? How much do you trust them? Do you feel confident enough to "enter" the tank while devices are drawing current? Would they work? Do you still kill the power first?

Maybe I should either install some of these or write a new will? Maybe I should do this tomorrow...


----------



## freydo (Jan 7, 2006)

i live in a 60+ year old apartment, naturally it doesn't have GFCI outlets, so i plug all my equipment into surge protected power outlet bars. as for the "sticking my hands in", interestingly enough, my koralia's are NOT plugged into the surge bars, just into the standard outlets. and i stick my hand in all the time without worry.

i think it comes down to using safe equipment. if you notice any fraying with the electric cords, don't even hesitate and chuck the thing out. i wouldn't chance taping it up with electric tape and continue using. that's a little too much risk, even for me.


----------



## mikaila31 (Feb 24, 2006)

My dad has installed GFI outlets in all the outlets I plug my tanks into. Today is actually the first time I see the reason to use them.

Today:
My mom started screaming about my 55gal tank flooding. The tank is located in out basement, which is a licensed daycare. We had 2 new kids, it was their 2nd day. One a 20 month old had pulled up one of the 4 clamps on my rena xp3 filter, the ones that seal the top and bottom of the canister together. So water was gushing out the sides of the canister. When I got down there the water level had dropped about 2 inches in the tank. Luckly the filter sits in a 10gal bin, but this was overflowing. My power strip sits right on the edge of the bucket so it was half in, half out of the water. I'm not really sure when the GFI tripped, but the tank lights where still on when I ran behind it. I stupidly pulled out the filter cord and disconnected the hoses from the canister. Then did the more stupid thing of grabbing the cord that goes to the power strip and lifting it up so the power strip dangled in the air (out of the water) . Then telling my mom to unplug the wall socket. In the end the GFI had tripped, I'm guessing as soon as water got into the power strip. If it hadn't I probably would of given myself a nasty zap.

The GFI also tripped a month earlier, for what I though was no reason. I just came down one morning and the tank had no power. Reset it and everything worked fine. Then 3 days later my heater went crazy and sent my tank up to 89* before I noticed it. I'm not certain, but I think the two were related. Since both devices have functioned for years without any problems.

I would definitely suggest them. They don't cost too much if you buy them and install them yourself.


----------



## Cliff Mayes (Jan 29, 2007)

GFCIs are there to protect you. Always unplug any electrical device before you mess with anything it touches. Water is a good bet for shocks, and they ain't fun. Current codes make it mandatory to have GFCI in Kitchens, Bathrooms and outdoor circuits. GFCI breakers are expensive but using GFCI outlets on a circuit, the right way, protects the circuit and they are very reasonable.

It can be aggravating dealing with a tripped circuit but that is preferable to having someone get hurt because of your neglegence.

Heaters can be made "safer" for the inhabitants by using two heaters, one set a bit lower than the other. Using submersibles is better than the hang ons, which are less expensive but can be difficult. If you just check your stick on thermometer and feel with your hand once a day, while feeding, it will be readily apparent something is wrong that needs to be fixed. Having the extra heater should prevent the temp from dropping too much and it also is a bit of insurance to have the backup. Remember that when something bad happens, it will happen at the worst possible time in the worst possible way.


----------



## Veloth (Jun 25, 2008)

I have regular outlets on all my equipment.


----------



## bartoli (May 8, 2006)

freydo said:


> i live in a 60+ year old apartment, naturally it doesn't have GFCI outlets, so i plug all my equipment into surge protected power outlet bars.


From what I've read, a surge protector does not cut off the power fast enough. It does not replace GFCI.

To benefit from GFCI, devices need to have a 3-prong plug. But most of them have only two prongs.


----------



## Dryn (Sep 6, 2007)

I have a "plug-in" GFCI protector that goes into the outlet and a surge protector with a built-in timer that goes into this. It constantly trips, so I removed it. That said, I always make sure that my equipment is safe and secured away from curious little hands and I've never had a problem, nor heard of anyone following safe practices around here have a problem. I have however, been shocked a couple of times by faulty equipment and it hurts a lot, so I do suggest using a GFCI outlet. (The plug-in ones cannot control enough power)


----------



## mikaila31 (Feb 24, 2006)

bartoli said:


> From what I've read, a surge protector does not cut off the power fast enough. It does not replace GFCI.
> 
> To benefit from GFCI, devices need to have a 3-prong plug. But most of them have only two prongs.


Are you sure about that? Most hairdryers and stuff don't have 3 prongs, but if you drop them in the water a GFCI outlet will still trip.


----------



## Captain Hooked (Oct 14, 2008)

Dryn said:


> I've never heard of anyone following safe practices around here have a problem.


Perhaps that's because those who _have_ had a problem are now _dead_.

 joking....(not really).


----------



## Captain Hooked (Oct 14, 2008)

mikaila31 said:


> Are you sure about that? Most hairdryers and stuff don't have 3 prongs, but if you drop them in the water a GFCI outlet will still trip.


Correct. GFCI's trip when the +/- relationship wanders outside the 5 millivolts range. No ground is needed for this to happen. GFCI's protect both grounded _and_ non grounded appliances alike (despite what the little stickers on the box say). But don't trust me- trust any master electrician worth his or her salt.

Compared to a breaker in the panel (or a fuse protected surge protector) it takes a heck of a lot more than millivolts to trip it. We're talking full on amps here. That's why breakers are rated at 15 amp, 20 amp, etc. GFCI's , OTOH, offer a _lo_t more protection than a breaker because the voltages and time required to trip a breaker can be _lethal_ compared to the near instant trip of 5 millivolts on a GFCI.

Oh yeah, I use GFCI on my fish tank stuff WITHOUT QUESTION!


----------



## squirrelproductions (Jan 16, 2006)

I use a portable GFCI unit that is along the lines of this.


----------



## fishyface (Feb 7, 2005)

yup, won't have a tank without it.


----------



## bartoli (May 8, 2006)

Captain Hooked said:


> GFCI's protect both grounded _and_ non grounded appliances alike


Thank you for pointing that out. For anyone interested, here is an explanation on how GFCI works:

http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infelectrical/infgfi.html


----------



## Manwithnofish (Mar 12, 2008)

Ok, what I had in mind was replacing the standard wall outlets with the GFCI outlets. I expect I can do this myself...if I get electrocuted, at least I would die trying to save myself from electrocution.

http://www.easy2diy.com/cm/easy/diy_ht_index.asp?page_id=35720244


----------



## freydo (Jan 7, 2006)

well... the easiest thing to do first before changing the outlet over is to flip the breaker. then there's nothing to worry about.


----------



## Minsc (May 7, 2006)

freydo said:


> well... the easiest thing to do first before changing the outlet over is to flip the breaker. then there's nothing to worry about.


Then double check that it is off by plugging something in! 110 volts through the arm is no fun!


----------



## Manwithnofish (Mar 12, 2008)

freydo said:


> well... the easiest thing to do first before changing the outlet over is to flip the breaker. then there's nothing to worry about.


I can't do that because I'd turn off the washer and dryer, the frig and the freezer, the hot water heater, the range, and all the lights.


----------



## Manwithnofish (Mar 12, 2008)

GFCI outlets installed. My fish have a look of relief on their faces.


----------



## helgymatt (Sep 12, 2007)

I've never used GFCI outlets, and haven't really thought about it much until I came upon this thread. Maybe it isn't such a bad idea. The problem is, my 75 gallon tank sits right in front of my outlet. I'm not about to move the tank to put in a new outlet. Do the portable ones really work? There as one comment earlier about them not working well with lots of power draw. I'm running T5 lighting and an Iwaki pump that draws a lot. Will the portable ones work for me?

I understand you can install a GFCI wall outlet and it will control the whole circuit. Can someone explain where I would install this, if I cannot get to the circuit behind my aquarium? Would I install it in a outlet on the line closer to the breaker box or farther from the breaker box? I am assuming I would install it closest to the breaker box and then anything down the line would be protected as well...


----------



## Manwithnofish (Mar 12, 2008)

You could have a GFCI breaker installed in the breaker panel, which would protect the entire circuit. I don't know about installing a GFCI outlet between the aquarium outlet and the breaker box somewhere. I don't think that would work. I believe that if you have a GFCI outlet that trips, all the outlets from that point to the end (last outlet on circuit) will be dead. I have not tested outlets back toward the breaker box.

Don't take my word on any of this. I'm not an electrician and although I've never been wrong in the past, it could happen.

Isn't the back of your tank cabinet open so you can run hose, tubes, etc? I did not have to move mine.


----------



## Cliff Mayes (Jan 29, 2007)

A GFCI duplex outlet needs to be installed on the circuit and will protect anything on the circuit. This needs to be tested to be absolutely certain. It is an inexpensive way to go but the easiest is a breaker in the box.

Any circuit that is either outside or near water has to be protected.


----------



## helgymatt (Sep 12, 2007)

I bought a GFCI outlet at Lowes for 11.99and just installed. Since I coudln't access the outlet on the aquarium, I installed it on the outlet before the aquarium (closer to the circuit box) Any outlet placed "after" a GFCI outlet is protected, according to the label. Testing the outlet turns off my aquarium stuff as well. It looks like I'm good to go...It was as sinch.

I could have gone with the GFCI breaker in the circuit box, but those were $30-40 and I would have needed two because I have two aquariums on two different breakers.

Thanks for the help everyone. Before I wasn't worried about this, but after reading this thread, I couldn't stand to take the risk. Plus, I just like to tinker around with things to keep me entertained


----------



## Captain Hooked (Oct 14, 2008)

helgymatt said:


> I bought a GFCI outlet at Lowes for 11.99and just installed. Since I coudln't access the outlet on the aquarium, I installed it on the outlet before the aquarium (closer to the circuit box) Any outlet placed "after" a GFCI outlet is protected, according to the label. Testing the outlet turns off my aquarium stuff as well. It looks like I'm good to go...It was as sinch.
> 
> I could have gone with the GFCI breaker in the circuit box, but those were $30-40 and I would have needed two because I have two aquariums on two different breakers.
> 
> Thanks for the help everyone. Before I wasn't worried about this, but after reading this thread, I couldn't stand to take the risk. Plus, I just like to tinker around with things to keep me entertained


You did good.

People don't realize what a dangerously good conductor water is. It's nothing to play around with. What would normally be a slight tingle with dry skin could easily kill you with wet skin. This is why GFCI's are now _required_ in any areas of the house near water. Personally, I don't like the idea of trusting an aquarium component with my life. If that thing receives a slight surge or has a grounding issue and my hands are wet- I'm dead- end of life. That's a risk I'm not willing to take, thank you. Another thing people don't realize is that a "surge protector" is designed to protect appliances- not people. By the time your wet hands hook up with a shock- you'd be covered in third degree burns with a fried heart by the time a "surge protector" tripped. A "surge protector' gives people a false sense of security; they are NOT anything like a GFCI.

If people are having issues with GFCI's tripping, well that's because the appliance(s) is/are unstable with regard to +/-. Now imagine you were holding that item with wet hands on a non-GFCI circuit when it surged with that instability- you could die. Think about it...


----------



## adechazal (Nov 12, 2008)

Yes yes a thousand times yes! Always use a GFCI circuit or unplug your equipment before putting hands in the water. Helgymat you did the right thing and Captainhooked is absolutely correct, this isn't the same as putting a paperclip in an outlet (didn't we all do that as children once?) where you get a zap. With water you become a preferred conductor with sufficient voltage and current to stop your heart.


----------



## Manwithnofish (Mar 12, 2008)

adechazal said:


> this isn't the same as putting a paperclip in an outlet (didn't we all do that as children once?) where you get a zap.


No wonder your name is mispelled!


----------

