# Jobes plant sticks



## superj30

I've heard and read about people using Jobe's household fert sticks in they're aquarium's.
I was wondering if anyone has tried them and if so what kind of results did you see?
I'm thinking of trying them for my crypts.
Thanks in response.


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## MrSanders

i have tried several times to use them in potted plants (ususally stem plants) for bare bottom breeding tanks. On nearly every try the plants always ended up melting from the bottom up in a few days. They never really seemed to work out for me.


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## SCMurphy

I've used a very small piece beneath crypts that are having a hard time getting established. Have never had problems with side effects. Just don't over do it.


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## superj30

Thanks for the replies guys.
I'm going to give them a try, at first just under a couple crypts and see what happens.
Thanks again.


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## rs79

If you have to use them (I woulnd't) use the ones for ferns, not the regular ones.


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## guy123

i take and put 2 sticks in a old pop bottle fill with hot water let them desolve add a lid full every day, makes my plants greener in color


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## rs79

They have ammonia in them (in the form of urea). You really would be better off making or buying proper aquarium fertilizer.

You may be getting away with it but you're doing just that.


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## ragn4rok

Maybe a bit out of topic, I use Jobe's plant fert on my Echinodorus "Rubin", here's the result:
Before (+-1 feet long) :









After +-6months, it's about +-3feet long:









So, I think it can be used for crypts too.


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## rs79

Does the water in the second one look greener by coincidence?


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## AaronT

rs79 said:


> They have ammonia in them (in the form of urea). You really would be better off making or buying proper aquarium fertilizer.
> 
> You may be getting away with it but you're doing just that.


Small doses of urea and ammonium are actually beneficial for aquarium plants. If you read the contents of Seachem's Nitrogen fertilizer you'll see both listed as ingredients. These are also very likely the fertilizers used in ADA's powersand.

That being said, I would also caution against trying such dosing methods; especially in a tank with expensive fish.  The key is to start small and increment in small amounts to avoid disaster.


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## rs79

"Small doses of urea and ammonium are actually beneficial for aquarium plants."

Problem is by the time you can measure ammonia it's killed your shrimp.

Real fertilizer are so easy to get now, why screw around with ammonia?


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## AaronT

rs79 said:


> "Small doses of urea and ammonium are actually beneficial for aquarium plants."
> 
> Problem is by the time you can measure ammonia it's killed your shrimp.
> 
> Real fertilizer are so easy to get now, why screw around with ammonia?


Ammonium and ammonia are different. I would never advocate using ammonia. The ammonium isn't harmful in small doses and the plants love it. The nitrogen added to planted aquariums is often converted to ammonium before the plants utilize it.


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## rs79

> Ammonium and ammonia are different. I would never advocate using ammonia. The ammonium isn't harmful in small doses and the plants love it. The nitrogen added to planted aquariums is often converted to ammonium before the plants utilize it.


You're gonna need to explain the mechanics of this to me before I believe you. I think NH-anything is a no-no. Especially if you have shrimp.


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## SCMurphy

Mechanics:
in acidic conditions ammonia attaches to a hydrogen ion to form ammonium, not toxic
urea is a stable way for an organism to make ammonia non-toxic while it is in the body
in water it actually requires a bacteria or plant with the urease enzyme to break up a urea molecule
when it is broken up it is combined with water to form two ammonium and a CO2 molecule

This is all happening in your manure substrate, only in a less controlled fashion.


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## AaronT

rs79 said:


> You're gonna need to explain the mechanics of this to me before I believe you. I think NH-anything is a no-no. Especially if you have shrimp.


What he said. ^

Seriously, Sean is the man who's taught me a good deal about this stuff. I have shrimp in all of my soil tanks and they are doing great.


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## rs79

If ammonium or ammonia are added to a tank, you don't get a choice. pH (and temp.) determines the ratio of one to the other.

Nobody I know who uses manure doesn't "lock it in" with 4 inches of fine beach sand.


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## AaronT

Here's a direct quote from SeaChem's website regarding the contents of their Nitrogen supplement:



> Guaranteed Analysis
> Total Nitrogen (N)
> 1.5%
> 1.5% Soluble Nitrogen
> 
> Soluble Potassium (K2O)
> 2%
> 
> Derived from: potassium nitrate, *urea (iminium salt)*


The urea is there for a reason. It's more readily available to the plants. This is why we need to add nitrogen to planted tanks in the first place. The plants use the ammonia before it is able to convert to nitrate and the macro nutrients bottom out.

Urea is also likely used in ADA's powersand as small levels of ammonia are always present in any newer properly executed ADA style substrate. This is why dosing isn't necessary for the first 4-6 weeks.

Again, I'm not advocating that everyone experiment with ammonia dosing. However, using products like Jobes fertilizer sticks and Flourish Root Tabs certainly won't hurt if done in moderation. Moderation being the key word of course.


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## rs79

"derived from" doesn't mean "contains". Does an ammonia test kit register anything if you test seachems N suppliment? I's be horrified if it did; by the time ammonia registers on a test kit your shrimp will be toast.

I've tried the plant sticks as has most of APD. They promote algae like few things I've seen and make an wretched mess in the substrate.

Why would you want to screw around with that stuff when making your own ferts is so stupid easy, cleaner, safer and much much cheaper?

A lot of folks tried the plant spikes back when, few seem to any more.

They're probably ok for emersed plants though if you use the Fern ones - which can be hard to find.


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## AaronT

It won't register anything on the ammonia test kit. Mostly because it's in the form of ammonium ( NH4 ).

I did say that moderation was the key. If you use the plant spikes there are some basic rules to follow.

- only use about 1/5 of the spike in one spot
- bury it deep
- commit ( in other words, don't uproot things around it once you've placed it )

Making your own fertilizer does work. Heck, I do it myself because it's cheaper. I still use some commercially prepared fertilizers as well and in my experience they work a little bit better.


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## HeyPK

Crypts ( and other aquarium plants) respond quite quickly to even very small additions of nitrate in the water column, so why worry about ammonia? This is an old debate where it is claimed that plants use ammonia/ammonium/urea more readily than nitrate, so, therefore, it is assumed that if you put in nitrate, they can't utilize it. While it is true that plants take up ammonia/ammonium, etc., more readily than nitrate, the difference in uptake capabilities is not big enough to worry about. Crypts are really quite good at pulling nitrate out of the water down to levels where it can't be measured by our kinds of test kits.


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## rs79

As soon as the pH goes above 7 Ammonium becomes Ammonia. Toxic to all animals in very small amounts, whereas nitrate is harmless in even 100X nominal dosage. Why would you ever want to risk this?

You can get away with anything locked in under a lot of sand but you never want anything to do with ammonia or ammonium in the water column. You may be getting away with it but you're doing just that.

I remember 20 years ago experimenting with houseplant fertilizer solution in one tank, 15 gal, with a bunch of killies and one very healthy hygrophilia. I gave the plant, in a large pot to a guy who put it in a 65 gal tank with a bunch of cardinals. They all died within hours.

Innes in 1920 described the use of fertilizers in aquaria as "a noble and dangerous experiment" and that's pretty much my feelings about the use of ammonia in the water column today.

Even under a lot of sand the remains of plant spikes once they're used up can get pretty messy - lots of white ash-like stuff.

I really can't recommend their use anywhere outside of a houseplant.


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## SCMurphy

Time to give up folks, you aren't going to convince each other so I suggest dropping it.


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## JJJohnson

SCMurphy said:


> > Just don't over do it.


Amen to that! Shortly after I tried plant stakes (along with other supplementation in the water itself) I had an algae bloom that took forever to get back under control. Best to increase fertilizers very slowly and in very small increments...


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