# Help with Brush algae



## dowdeva (Jul 9, 2006)

Hello all,

What is a good chemical (NOT Flourish Excel - it got rid of all my good bacteria last time) to use with brush algae and which plants below might have a negative effect from it?

I can't manually remove the brush algae, the tank is completely infected. 

Amano baby tears
cardinal lobelia
star grass
bacopa australis
dwarf hairgrass

Not worried about effects on fish as I only have one right now, and can easily move her to a temporary tank.

Thanks in advance,

Lisa


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

dowdeva said:


> ...*(**NOT Flourish Excel - it got rid of all my good bacteria last time)* to use with brush algae and which plants below might have a negative effect from it?
> 
> I can't manually remove the brush algae, the tank is completely infected.
> 
> ...


Hmm... I have used Fluorish Excel to battle algae in my 2.5 gallon in excess of the recommended amounts. I always tested that water, and there was no indication of it killing the good bacteria as my ammonia and nitrites always measured zero. A death in good bacteria would cause the ammonia and nitrites to sky rocket.

Obviously, your tank is out of balance, what fertilization scheme are you using. The slow permanent fix would be to look at what deficiencies/excesses may be present and use a fertlization scheme like PPS-Pro or EI if a deficiency exists. You may find the following useful as it relates to this.

*"Red algae: Also called Black Beard Algae (bba), or Black Brush Algae. Short hairs (1/4" long), closely packed together. Appears dark green, black, or dark red. Grows on plant leaves, and sometimes on decorations/substrate. Often grows all around the edges of plant leaves.
BBA thrives in situations of high phosphates. Phosphates come from fish waste, excess food, and occasionally will be present in the water supply. The best way to eliminate BBA is to let the plants out-compete the algae for the nutrients.

In heavily planted tanks, BBA will often show up when the plants have used up all the nitrates. This causes plant growth to slow or stop, which leaves the excess phosphates available to the algae. By supplying extra Nitrate to a planted tank, we allow plant growth to continue until all phosphate is consumed. Then plant AND algae growth will slow/stop. As long as a usable (5-10ppm) level of Nitrate is maintained, the the plants will continue to use up the available phosphate, effectively controls BBA and other phosphorus-dependant algaes. See the article "Adding Nitrate to a Planted Tank" for detailed instructions on how to increase your Nitrate levels. "*

*Source:http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_algae.htm*

How large is your tank? If it is big enough for a Siamese Algae Eater, it will completely devour the brush algae. However, given the size of plants you have, he could end up squashing or severly damaging them too.

Do you or have you considered DIY C02 injection. Injecting C02 may well help fix your problem.

The only other option would be to, tear your tank apart, treat all your plants with a potassium promegrate solution or a 25% bleach solution(this may kill your plants)

Finally, it is also said that Brush Algae may be fuelled by a tank with a high PH and carbonate hardness. It is also said that using special filter media to reduce phosphate and silicate or Reverse Osmosis water may also prevent this algae. It is also said that a treatment with copper(a very drastic measure) may also kill this algae.

Personally, I would look at implementing a good fertilization regime to resolve any existing deficiencies and combining this with c02 injection. If and only if that fails, then I would tear the tank apart and start over.


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## rs79 (Dec 7, 2004)

I've never had excel kill good bacteria either.

Ihad awful problems with brush and staghorn algae for the first 7 (of 10) years I was in this place. Then I started, upon Tom Barr's insistance, fertilizing plants with macros and fe+traces. In one tank just a single dose of KNO3+the usual macros just killed it outright. Other tanks took a bit of Excel as well, but I haven't seen this wretched stuff in years now.

Feed the plants and it'll go away.


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## dowdeva (Jul 9, 2006)

Dear RS and Homer,

Please excuse me for this abysmally late expression of reply/gratitute for help. My internet was down for a week, and then I got caught up with other things.

I have been wracking my brain whether to give you the short reply, with the potential disadvantage of possibly leaving something out, or the long, with the possibility of boring you to tears. I have decided to go with the long explanation:

I have a 10 gallon tank, planted. Only one fish right now, because Flourish Excel killed all my others, plus my plants. But I left something critical out, I realized, in that at the time I didn't use a little over the recommended dosage on the bottle, but almost 4 oz. This is because I had read up on how to measure CO2 testing pH and kH. They both seemed pretty stable no matter how much I added, hence, the 4 oz to kill the algae. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, obviously. 

I have a 10 gallon tank and after I got rid of a ghastly blue green algae infection a month ago (using erythromycin and a protocol I found on the krib), decided to switch to totally distilled water for water changes. I live in Fla and was previously using 2/3 distilled water for water changes, plus about 1 quart Fla well water to add back electrolytes. I couldn't use Fla well water totally, because Fla is primarily limestone, and my pH is about 8, no good for tropical fish. 

The reason I switched completely to distilled water is because my theory was that the well water was introducing algae spores (it's also high in phosphates, which I removed with a phosphate remover til I got it down to .5, and then removed the phosphate remover). I would keep getting rid of BGA, and then getting it back. I am pretty sure now that my theory is correct as it has not returned since I removed the BGA.

I am currently using injected CO2 at around 1 bubble per second. pH drops to about 6.2 during the day, and goes up to about 7.2 by early morning (what can I do, it's a 10 gallon tank...). I turn off the CO2 injector at night. At some point I will buy a timer.

My lighting is a 36 watt, 6700K fluorescent light that I retro-fitted onto my 10 gallon hood. I leave it on about 10 hours a day.

My current parameters are:

Phosphates are now too low: .01
Nitrates are actually a little too high (in regards to your post about nitrates/brush algae): 20

I use Seachem Equilibrium to bring gH up to around 3 to 4, and then baking soda to hopefully bring kH to around 1. I say hopefully because my kH test turns weird colors - but NOT the color it is supposed to turn - after I add one drop of the testing agent, so I am hoping kH is one.

I also add Tropica Aquacare once a week, and Flourish Iron, according to recommended dosages.

And finally, I have started using the Flourish Excel at about 20 times recommended dosage for a 10 gallon - about 2 capfuls a day. I wait to turn on my CO2 injector until an hour after the Excel has been added. My remaining fish seems to be doing fine, and the brush algae seems to be dying back, but not competely. It could be that the nitrates are too high because of the decomposing algae.

I have gotten a lot of my info, and my plants (which were glowing with health), from Don at Freshwateraquariumplants.com, who basically, patiently, turned m3 from a complete idiot into an advanced newbie. It was he who told me that it was the sugars in the Excel that killed my fish.

I have questions, if you two don't mind, but will post them in a separate reply.

Thanks so much again.

Lisa


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## dowdeva (Jul 9, 2006)

Dear RS and Homer,

So, what should I do? I read on one of the links on Tom Barr's site that people often use Tropica Aquacare along WITH poor man's dosing drops. I already use the Tropical formula. The Tropica formula is proprietary and I am ASSUMING that all it is adding is micros, hence the need for the other formula.

There seem to be several formulas there though. Which should I use? And why would one use potassium nitrate AND potassium sulfate?

And also, wouldn't my Seachem Equilibrium that I use (potassium, magnesium and calcium), obviate the need for the calcium and magnesium in the dosing drops?

Any help would be most appreciated, and direction to some links in order to understand WHY I am adding what. I promise to be more timely in my response to your response.

I also forgot to add in the previous post that I have laterite balls in the gravel, which is plain old small Estes gravel. This is because the whole planted tank idea started with just one plant for my gourami in a typical low-light 10 gallon tank. $500 later, and a botched retro-fitted light (it goes off for a moment every time I touch it but it was my first attempt)....sigh....

I keep trudging on, though, and hopefully your advice will raise me too a new level of newbie-ism.

Thanks in advance,

Lisa


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

dowdeva said:


> ...And finally, I have started using the Flourish Excel at about 20 times recommended dosage for a 10 gallon ...


This is alot of Excel. The recommended overdosing amount of Excel is usual around 2-3x the normal, not 20x.

You may want to do some reading to get a handle on the basics. Here are two good sources to read if you haven't already done so:

www.rexgrigg.com

http://www.aquatic-plants.org/articles/basics/pages/01_intro.html

And then two variations of fert dosing methods:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...zing/15225-estimative-index-dosing-guide.html

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/pps-analysis-feedback/39491-newbie-guide-pps-pro.html

Enjoy.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

> I live in Fla and was previously using 2/3 distilled water for water changes, plus about 1 quart Fla well water to add back electrolytes. I couldn't use Fla well water totally, because Fla is primarily limestone, and my pH is about 8, no good for tropical fish.


I live in Florida (Gainesville area), have well water which I use for all my tanks. pH out of the tap is 8, kh 10, gh 12, with no problems. I use CO2 which drops the pH to ~6.9-7.1.

If you want to use RO water, go right ahead, but don't do it because you think you won't be able to grow plants or fish with your well water. If you can drink it and it doesn't hurt you, it won't hurt your fish or plants. Just be aware that there will be some plants which won't thrive - the softer water ones (Toninas, Eriocaulons, and a handful of others.)


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## Aen (Jul 24, 2007)

I had experience with BBA. It covered everything. What I did is nip what i can off rocks, hoses, hardware, etc with my fingers/nails. Then cut infected plants off or at least remove the BBA from it. It may not be completely gone overnight. I then increased CO2 bps, make sure I have about 8-10:1 ratio of N and P. Dose some K if plants have yellow. If the plants grow well with higher CO2, lights, ferts, the algae will eventually die off. Just need to do water changes to remove dead algae.


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## dowdeva (Jul 9, 2006)

Thank you for all your help. I see I have some extensive reading to do here.DD


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