# Flourish tabs and shrimp die-off?



## Troy McClure (Aug 3, 2005)

I went through a rather large die-off in my 10gal shrimp tank since Thursday. There are still shrimp dying, mainly cherries but the amanos weren't immune either. I'm trying to figure out what caused this. I was dosing 1.5ml of Excel per day, and 1ml of Flourish per day. I thought at first there was something in the Flourish that was killing them, like I overdosed that. Two 50% water changes did not help. I did a third on Saturday. Still shrimp dying. So then I was thinking maybe the Flourish root tabs I stuck in the substrate were being uncovered by the MTS and it was leaching something into the water that was killing the shrimp....like copper. My first suggestion that the Flourish root tabs were the cause was lots of baby MTS congregating at the surface of the water. Strange. I didn't think much of it. That was Wednesday night. Thursday evening when the die-off started I walked passed the tank and all the shrimp were swimming around the tank in a frenzy, going every which way, like they were trying to find an exit in a smokey room. I had never seen anything like it and I knew something was wrong, so that's when I did the large water changes like I mentioned above.

There is still a good number of shrimp, but some of them seem to be congregating towards the surface on a rock/moss wall in the tank. It's frustrating to come home and find more deceased shrimp, and especially finding shrimp on their backs kicking their legs uncontrollably. 

I just got done tearing up my foreground trying to find and extract the Flourish tabs. I did not put in whole pieces, just halves and quarters. They are difficult to find against the Eco-Complete substrate, but they are easy to distinguish when you rub them between your fingers because they will leave a black charcoal smudge everywhere.

I'm going to do another water change and re-attach the XP1 to polish the water but I'm wondering - was it the Excel, the Flourish, or the exposed Flourish Root Tabs? This tank was rock solid and the shrimp were thriving (that's an understatement) until midweek. I'm really frustrated and it's sad to lose so many shrimp.


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## milalic (Aug 26, 2005)

Troy McClure said:


> I went through a rather large die-off in my 10gal shrimp tank since Thursday. There are still shrimp dying, mainly cherries but the amanos weren't immune either. I'm trying to figure out what caused this. I was dosing 1.5ml of Excel per day, and 1ml of Flourish per day. I thought at first there was something in the Flourish that was killing them, like I overdosed that. Two 50% water changes did not help. I did a third on Saturday. Still shrimp dying. So then I was thinking maybe the Flourish root tabs I stuck in the substrate were being uncovered by the MTS and it was leaching something into the water that was killing the shrimp....like copper. My first suggestion that the Flourish root tabs were the cause was lots of baby MTS congregating at the surface of the water. Strange. I didn't think much of it. That was Wednesday night. Thursday evening when the die-off started I walked passed the tank and all the shrimp were swimming around the tank in a frenzy, going every which way, like they were trying to find an exit in a smokey room. I had never seen anything like it and I knew something was wrong, so that's when I did the large water changes like I mentioned above.
> 
> There is still a good number of shrimp, but some of them seem to be congregating towards the surface on a rock/moss wall in the tank. It's frustrating to come home and find more deceased shrimp, and especially finding shrimp on their backs kicking their legs uncontrollably.
> 
> ...


Excessive amounts of excel will kill your shrimp as well as excessive ferts. I am not sure what the roota tabs have, but they are very concentrated. I would put the root tabs as the main cause.

-pedro


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## Troy McClure (Aug 3, 2005)

I thought if the Excel and Flourish was the problem, the large water changes would have taken care of that. AmQuel+ would have eliminated any nitrogen. People have done 2x daily dosing with Excel with no problems to shrimp.

I've spent the past hour and a half excavating the foreground and removing all of the tabs. I used a little plastic cup that's about the size of a NyQuil cup. It's a mess and I will have to replant my HC, but it will be worth it if this saves my shrimp.


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## milalic (Aug 26, 2005)

Hopefully it will help and save the rest of the shrimp.
Keep us updated.

-Pedro


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## Freerider (Nov 8, 2006)

I also had all my ghost shrimp die with a weekly dosing of Flourish at the manfu recommended levels. I wont use it at all in my future shrimp tanks. Its the only think i can think of that caused the die off, all water parameters were well within acceptable range. I do weekly 50% water changes.


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## Troy McClure (Aug 3, 2005)

-No dead to report and at least one juvie Amano rescued-

I didn't notice any abnormal behavior today, no shrimp on their backs flailing their little legs, no bodies were found, and at least one of the two juvie Amanos that were on their backs have recovered in my 10gal iwagumi tank. Excavating the root tabs -seems- to have done the trick, though I can't prove that with 100% certainty. I'll keep an eye on it though. After Christmas, I'll have the pressurized CO2 up and running so I won't have to bother with Excel except for after water changes, which will be twice a month (if that) instead of weekly. I think Flourish Comp will only be dosed once or twice a week at half the recommended dosage.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

How many root tabs had you used in that tank? I suspect that was your problem too, though perhaps not copper, but one of the concentrated macros that was killing the shrimp.


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## Minsc (May 7, 2006)

A while back I had a ten gallon that I added Seachem root tabs to. A couple days later my betta had a cloudy eye, so I tested the water. Nitrates and phosphates had jumped, and the GH shot through the roof! I had added four full tabs, and only found small pieces of two of them. 

They definately can dissolve into the water column and cause havoc.


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## Troy McClure (Aug 3, 2005)

A quick update: The deaths have stopped. It kept up for over a week after my first posting. All of the large Amanos survived but it was the Cherry population that took the hardest hit. It took a couple hours to escavate the entire foreground, being careful not to undercut and topple the moss rock wall in the background, but I noticed a very quick turn around in behavior after they were removes. I only found slivers of the pieces. I didn't use full tabs either. I used maybe 1.5. I tried to break them into thirds as best I could. At the same time, I've been extremely lazy about dosing Excel and Flourish, and I think I'll continue to do so as long as the moss and petite nana keep growing.

I was really happy to find that a couple cherries and a couple amanos had survived in my 10gal Iwagumi after being "air vac'd" in an attempt to rescue them. They'll be rejoining their relatives tonight, but now I'm contemplating the idea of replacing the EC with the Africana AquaSoil so it matches the red lava rocks better. I'm doing this mostly so to get rid of the exploding MTS population that was uprooting my HC.


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