# Green Pea Soup Algae??



## cino (May 1, 2011)

I decided to put word out on this forum in search of answers to a complicated problem I am having here regarding my 65 gallon tank, pea soup algae as I call it. I believe the problem is coming from the Eco-Complete which is about a year old now.

I have very good test kits, Salifert and they are all current for at least another year so let's start by eliminating the normal causes, mainly phosphates (none) and nitrates 2 ppm, readings taken by two seperate kits for each and each showing the same results. This tank has 1 175W, 6.5K halide, brand new Hamilton Tech bulb. The old bulb was replaced after a year so the change of lighting would not seem to be enough to create the problems we are now experiencing. 

About 1 1/2 months ago I had a major cyno outbreak in this well established aquarium. I got desperate enough to use erothromyacin (sp? sorry) after removing many affected plants to another tank where I knew the algae would clear up on it's own. Of course this had a very adverse affect on the biological fillter so half the fish were also relocated to another tank to take the load off the bio-filter. Shortly there-after the heating cable started coming up badly so that too had to be pulled out as we were unable to replace it properly with all the substrate in that tank. The problems really began then. I started noticing tiny bubbles coming up from the substrate, hydrogen sulfide so we pulled most the substrate and replaced it after rinsing it in used aquarium water. The substrate really wasn't all that dirty as I vacuum between the plants every water change which in our case is every three days normally. The substrate is a mix of gravel and Eco-Complete. The reason for this is that we had done another tank in the red Eco and it dyed the water (and everything else)so badly. Carib-Sea sent us additional liquid to trap the dye which only made it adhere to anything and everything that much more but still it continued to turn this other tank red to spite daily water changes so we replaced the Eco. After weeks of bleeding off this red dye in buckets, we decided to use part of it in the 65 gal so it wasn't a total waste of money.

We are now changing our water on the 65 gal. daily and it turns cloudy green every day by mid-afternoon. The bubbles from the substrate have gotten much worse indicating dirty substrate but the substrate is not dirty. We can not drop the tank temp any lower than what we already are maintaining it at (82 degrees) because we have discus. We know it is not the filter malfuncting as we switched media in another filter (Eheim Pro 3E to Pro 3) from another tank. The other tank had no adverse affects, not even slight fluctuation. On the flip side, with the media from the good running tank now in the 65 gal., there was no improvement. The tank is also now developing a strange (not normal type odor). We highly suspect the Eco-Complete. We think we had a bad batch to begin with because of all the problems we have for almost 2 months with the red dye.

Any input would be greatly appreciated as we are going nuts with this tank. The substrate heater manufacturer sent us new suction cups (the old just wore out) today so tomorrow we tear down this tank AGAIN. This time we are pulling the substrate and using "borrowed substrate" (from all our other planted tanks) until our new stuff arrives and we can replenish the lenders.

Thanks for your ideas if any


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## JustLikeAPill (Oct 9, 2006)

I don't believe your substrate is causing your green/cloudy water.

Did you test for ammonia? 

Your biofilter in the substrate and filter has been disturbed and the antibiotics didn't help a month ago. Leave the filter and substrate alone, don't replace the substrate again. 

If the substrate heater is causng you so many problems by coming up, get rid of it. It doesn't benefit the plants anyway, studies have shown.

In the mean time, keep doing water changes, Do a black out, and run a uv clarifier or diatom filter if you have access to one.


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## cino (May 1, 2011)

Hi JustLikeAPill:

Hey, your mailbox is full my friend.

"It was the substrate" and it is behind us now. The substrate is filling in holes in our long dirt driveway now. LOL

We had tested for everything under the sun repeatedly through the course of over a month. My first suspicions were ammonia hence phosphates. Of course we ran the gammit of tests multiple times over the past month, nitrites, nitrates, CO2, hardness, oxygen, pH, you name it, we tested for it... except redox. We even have test kits to back up the readings we get from our Salifert test kits. All were always showing the same readings. When we saw hydrogen sulfide bubbles and the rather sudden massive blue/green algae outbreak we thought nitrogen so we monitored our nitrites and ammonia levels closely but held off on pulling the substrate and just to remain extra vigilant in our regulat gravel cleanings between the plants. There was no black yuk that is associated with a build-up of organics. We literally looked for EVERYTHING.

Getting desperate we pulled and rinsed (in used aquarium water) the substrate just one week prior to yesterday's total tear down. There was still basically no improvement so we called Eheim as there is a little piece missing in the pump head and we wanted to be sure that wasn't affecting the water flow. Earnesto from Eheim assured me it would not be affecting the filter's performance. After we called them we switched around the filter media out of a very healthy tank and the media from the regular canister for the 65 gal was put in the filter for the super-healthy tank. No ill efects to the healthy tank, no improvement to the sick tank. We are talking mega Eheims here (2078 and the 2080), the biggest they make on tanks with comparitively small bio-loads. The discus are fed with cone feeders and we feed dried foods very minimally. Yea, this has had us puzzled too.... along with everyone else we talked to who knows aquarium maint. and management and knows I am too advanced (not necessarily in planted aquariums) to make over-sights.

Yesterday we totally replaced the substrate leaving the big Eheim alone completely. By midnight last night the tank was clear as could possibly be.

The substrate is gone and so is the problem. Today we have the light switched off and the plants have been moved to safety elsewhere as we need more substrate (which comes tomorrow) before we can replace the plants. The discus remain behind and there is a considerable improvement in both their color and activity. 

Problem solved but why exactly this happened remains a mystery. For that substrate to have leached color as badly as it did originally for weeks on end until we had to just give up and pull it. A reliable source (who's identity is being witheld) told us back at the time that the substrate had been likely frozen solid due to its being packed in water. I don't know that that should have any bearing on what has been happening in the past almost two months or so now. That source however knows nothing about this most recent problem but we have had nothing but trouble with this substrate from day #1. We have always suspected a bad batch slipping through. We are just glad it is over with.

Thanks for Your Concern

Cindy


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## cino (May 1, 2011)

*PS JustLikeAPill*



JustLikeAPill said:


> I don't believe your substrate is causing your green/cloudy water.
> 
> Did you test for ammonia?
> 
> ...


Yea, we were going to diatom it but I can't get the earth. The plant burned down (company name escapes me at the moment) and I have to find a new source for the earth. Any ideas????? My LFS suggested a pool company type of supplier but I am not sure that is aquarium friendly. He had no suggestions otherwise. It would seem diatonacious (sp?) earth would be the same but not sure?????? The stuff is always good to have around so I would like to find another trusted source. As far as a UV goes, the biological balance had already been messed around with enough so that would not have been a choice for us.

That was almost two months ago I used the bacterial med. and I "seeded" the bio-filter system afterwards off of some of our other tanks. Any kind of real cycling activity would have been picked up by the water testing. This is the only tank I have ever had this problem on. I think I can only remember having one other outbreak of blue/green algae between the 6 tanks. I've been pretty lucky. Oh sure, I get occassional minor glass algae and some on my anubias but our bristle noses quickly come to the rescue. [smilie=l:


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## cino (May 1, 2011)

*Vortek's plant burned down*

Vortek's plant burned down according to my LFS and diatom supplies are not coming through any more. I need to find a new trusted source.


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## jeff5614 (Feb 15, 2006)

I've been using DE from a pool supply store occasionally for a couple of years without any noticeable problems.


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## Crispino Ramos (Mar 21, 2008)

While figuring out the cause of the green water, it would help to run a UV sterilizer or/and Magnum HOT filter to remove the suspended algae in the water column.


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## cino (May 1, 2011)

Hi Jeff and Crispino:

Thanks for both your input. I am glad to hear you have used the earth safely as we were really bummed that we could not get our hands on any source we trusted. I am anxious to get more but wanted to be sure it would be safe for not only my plants but our precious discus we love so much.

Good advice coming from Crispino as well. Actually I am running (and have been) two Magnum 
350s as mechanical filters. The Pro Magnum (with bio wheels) is always on the tank (we have one on our 56 as well, "the deeper tanks") and the second filter is kind of a floater which we use where and when needed. We really like the Magnums in this house, aggressive little suckers. Another plus to the Magnums is that you can run the earth in them with their micron filters. Not as good as a regular diatom filter, they are a heck of a lot easier to use and still do a real nice job with water polishing. Since we use our planted tanks to raise sale plants our substrate is stirred more regularly than we would prefer so for us, aggressive mechanical filtration is a must. Usually I just run floss in their media compartments.

Thanks Again Guys


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## cino (May 1, 2011)

JustLikeAPill wrote:

If the substrate heater is causng you so many problems by coming up, get rid of it. It doesn't benefit the plants anyway, studies have shown.



But we like our substrate heaters.  I've been using them since I got into discus, long before I got into planted aquariums. That particular tank is older. The suction cups were bound to wear out sooner or later, "stuff happens". Substrate heaters distribute the heat nice and evenly and are quite effective. I like them so much better than inline heaters or canisters with built in heaters. Since my tanks USE TO BE AQUSCAPED, I also liked the idea that I did not have this shinny big silver thing I had to worry about hiding. We like our Jagers when it comes to regular submersable heaters but they do stand out.

Since discus are vertical spawners, they lay eggs on anything vertical in a tank. Female discus can be damaged leading to death by attempting to lay eggs on heaters so we do not want regular heaters in our tanks. We do use them in the winter however and adjust our water so as our female discus are not apt to be laying their clutches then.


Later


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## Skizhx (Oct 12, 2010)

Maybe the substrate was just too deep?

I mean, if this all started when the substrate heater came up... That to me would indicate that the substrate heater was the only thing stopping your substrate from becoming very anaerobic, which makes me think your substrate was probably too deep?


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