# Any experience with this algae ? - "hairy type"



## jerseyjay

Any experience with this algae ?


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## Erirku

Hey Jay,
That's one of the most natiest algae I have seen and a good close up. It seems to thread or hair algae. I don't know what the common name for it is called, but I hate that one. It's one of the most hardest algaes to get rid of, in my personal experience. Some people tweak on this algae for hours a day. I don't care what the experts say, their not here at my house, guiding me in what to do. Sorry, no offense.
The best way to deal with it, is to get some good tweezers and manually pluck it out, without breaking or losing any pieces, while bringing them up to the surface. Or use a junk (really used up toothbrush) toothbrush and roll it all up in the bristles. You can also cut out or get rid of infected leaves, to really miniminze its territory. Last but not least, use the above mentioned methods, do 50+ water change, blackout for 3-5 days, maintain with macros and micros, and it should work. Oh, one more thing, if it gets a hold of your mosses, watchout. It loves to take a hold of it. Good luck, Eric.


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## Simpte 27

Looks like a bladderwort to me.


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## dennis

To be honest, it seems to be growing from a central rhizome or something, like hairgrass does. I remember seeing something a while back posted on the forum regarding something similar to what it seems you have. I don't remember the post and I am pretty sure it was a post to a thread about something unrelated. Sorry I don't remember more but it was a while ago.

On the other hand, the photo is pretty small and I am sure it looks much more obvious to you in person than to use on a photo. Got a bigger pic by chance? I would llike to see a full size shot, you can email it to me if you want as I know you will have to compromise resolution to post a big photo here.


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## jerseyjay

I have never seen anything like that. In 15 years as a plant hobbyist I never went against it and this pest is TAKING OVER !

Here is couple days progress


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## jerseyjay

And here is small close up. This entire clamp is moving so its hard to take good macro.


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## bharada

I had some persistant thread algae in my 125g tank a while back. It never got out of control, but all that I'd twirl out would grow back in a day. I noticed that my NO3 level was steadily climbing while my PO4 levels remained fairly constant so I started adding K2SO4 to my dosing routine—dosing about the same ppm as I was dosing KNO3. Within a week the algae was gone. I didn't make any adjustments to my CO2 or lighting, just added the potassium.

Since folks rarely test potassium levels it may be something to consider trying.


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## dennis

It does look like thread algae now to me. I woudl do as Bill suggested, remove as much as possible, H2O2 any you can't quite remove, do a water change and thorough cleaning and dose any nutrients you feel could be lacking. Adding some Seachem Equilibrium is brobably a good bet as it has lots of K, extra Ca and Mg, and some esential traces.

Personally I find thread algae pops up when my trace levels dosing is to low. I have a little right now, having run out of Flourish for about a week (poor planning on my part)


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## jerseyjay

Removing this is basically impossible. Its all over the place. Some spots smaller amount, some a lot. I will give a try with "eating crew". I am buying some mollies / rosy barbs / flag fish. I will also do ~5 day black out with turned off CO2, no nutrients. At this point I'm willing to try anything. If I have to remove this manually, I would rather dump all the plants and restart all over. It is too much in too many places. After 5 day blackout I will do 50+ water change and continue my fert schedule which work amazingly for a while now. Plants are still pearling and growing well, along with this damn algae. 

Here is fertilization schedule:
- 100ml RO
- 1 tsp KNO3
- 1 tsp trace
- 1/4 K2SO4
- 1/8 KH2PO4

All mixed with 100 ml of RO and dumped into Eheim liqudoser. After ~10 days I refill container with new batch.


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## HeyPK

I've got it, too, in a 75 gallon. I believe it is Rhizoclonium. I am going to have to remove the plants, bleach them, set them up in a new tank, and then bleach the entire 75 gallon tank. Bleach the gravel---everything! Two minutes in 5% bleach kills the Rhizoclonium without very much damage to the plants.


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## Laith

Jay Luto said:


> ...
> 
> Here is fertilization schedule:
> - 100ml RO
> - 1 tsp KNO3
> - 1 tsp trace
> - 1/4 K2SO4
> - 1/8 KH2PO4
> 
> All mixed with 100 ml of RO and dumped into Eheim liqudoser. ...


Mixing trace elements (especially Fe) with KH2PO4 is usually not recommended due to the Fe and PO4 precipitating out, making both not immediately available to the plants...

So maybe your PO4 and Fe levels are very low in the tank, leading to an imbalance which is helping this algae along?


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## Zapins

err i have had this algae many many times and i have always found that hair/thread algae is one of the easiest of algaes to kill off... dont know why you guys are having such a nightmare time with it! all i do is raise my co2 levels higher and dose a higher amount of phosphate. i believe extra PO4 is they key, because whenever i add more of that it dies off within the next 2 days and goes gray. it just melts and the filter sucks it up.

also pull out as much of it as you can manually but i wouldn’t go and use tweezers and make yourself crazy or go bleaching your tank just yet. try adding more Po4 and watch it die off.

usually i keep my po4 levels around 2ppm and i dont get it.


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## jerseyjay

Well... 

I went through my share of algae problems throughout the years. This doesn't look like your average "hairy" algae that is why I'm bringing it up here. 

Re: Fe + KH2PO4 mix. 
Never had a problem using both in the same container. Infect few other hobbyists are using exact same mix with great success.

I plan on purchasing "algae crew" today - mollies, flag-fish and some rosy barbs. I will also double the amount of ferts to speed up plant growth ( do the same if in need for extra cuttings) and eliminate algae. I will also try adding KH2PO4 individually and see if this will make a difference.


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## zeek

Jay Luto said:


> Re: Fe + KH2PO4 mix.
> Never had a problem using both in the same container. Infect few other hobbyists are using exact same mix with great success.


Looking at that nasty algae I would say that you're not one of those hobbyists! :biggrin:

Isaac


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## jerseyjay

zeek said:


> Looking at that nasty algae I would say that you're not one of those hobbyists! :biggrin:
> 
> Isaac


Isaac,

Let's see ...... sorry but I can't see anything productive in your reply, do you ?

If you want to discuss aquaria, plants and fish, I will be more then happy to entertain and challenge your knowledge. Judging by your response, it doesn't seem like it would be a long conversation.

For you information, I'm almost positive that above is Nitella http://bunshi3.bio.nagoya-u.ac.jp/bunshi3/photos/nitella.jpg which could end up in your tank anytime during plant swap. Once in your tank, it will thrive as long as there are nutrients.

Next time you want to challenge someone's knowledge or experience, google user's name and think twice.


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## dennis

Jay Luto said:


> Re: Fe + KH2PO4 mix.
> Never had a problem using both in the same container. Infect few other hobbyists are using exact same mix with great success.


Having heard people trying this method with success and others trying it without success (speaking about accomplished aquarist in both cases) I have atheory that the PO4/Fe issue is only relevant regarding certain trace mixtures. I would assume that different trace mixes, using different chelators woudl react differently in the presence of PO4. If the Fe has a strong bond to a particular chelator, why would the Fe leave and go to the PO4. That makes no sense.

I have no idea how the varoius trace mixes react with PO4 but that is a different thread topic anyway.



> I plan on purchasing "algae crew" today - mollies, flag-fish and some rosy barbs. I will also double the amount of ferts to speed up plant growth ( do the same if in need for extra cuttings) and eliminate algae. I will also try adding KH2PO4 individually and see if this will make a difference.


This sounds like the best thing you can do. I know I don't need to advise you of this, but be warned that extra nutrients will cause the algae to increase for a time. Manual (or fish) removal will help keep it at pay until the plants can really out compete it. Also, if you have trouble with the manual removal, don't be affraid to try H2O2 or an overdose of Excel. I have used both techniques in the past and they worked in drastic situations. What the treatment does not immediately kill is weakend and soften to make it more appealing to the algae crew.


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## jerseyjay

Hey Dennis.

Thanks for feedback. I'm almost positive that the pest is Nitella. Although some Nitella / Chara pictures online are a bit different, the following looks very much alike. Notice buds all around, especially one in right top corner. This is exactly what I see in my tank.

I'm going to try few more approaches and report back.


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## JLudwig

Jay with respect to Paul's bleach suggestion:

Try Algaefix/Excel overdose first. Catch as many inverts as you can, as it will kill them off. Copper is also a possibility, someone I know who used it managed to use it and not kill his inverts. Most plants survive the algaecide treatment just fine, some will bite it though (oddly enough Stargrass died on me and Stellata was okay).

As for the iron/phosphate comment, the chemistry is very complicated, I'm plowing through some of this right now. The reaction rate will depend very strongly on the exact chelating agent used and the pH of the fertilizer solution. Lower pH values should stabilize the fert solution significantly (due to chelating agent equilibrium and also the phosphate should be mostly protonated and less reactive). If you plan on doing this, be sure to mix with RO or distilled water, use DPTA as a chelate (TMG/CSM *not* iron gluconate) and add a few drops of hydrochloric acid for good measure.

When someone mails me some Nesea sp. that look as healthy as Jay's, which I've seen in person, I'll maybe consider listening to what they think about his dosing routine. I also have had "perfect" growing conditions with a persistent algae (a blown slime) and solved the problem via algaecides.

Jeff


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## dennis

JLudwig said:


> As for the iron/phosphate comment, the chemistry is very complicated, I'm plowing through some of this right now. The reaction rate will depend very strongly on the exact chelating agent used and the pH of the fertilizer solution. Lower pH values should stabilize the fert solution significantly (due to chelating agent equilibrium and also the phosphate should be mostly protonated and less reactive). If you plan on doing this, be sure to mix with RO or distilled water, use DPTA as a chelate (TMG/CSM *not* iron gluconate) and add a few drops of hydrochloric acid for good measure.


Good to know that. So as not to muck up Jay's thread anymore I am starting a new thread regarding this aspect. I will include this post and thanks again for the info.

Jay, let us know what you do and how you get rid of your little problem.


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## plantbrain

Jay Luto said:


> Any experience with this algae ?


Spirogyra

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## SCMurphy

Jay,

It is definitely not Nitella or Chara. I've seen stuff like that before but it always seems to disappear on it's own. I've never tried to eradicate it with any success that I can claim honors for. How fragile is it?

Could be *Mougeotia*, *Zygnema*, or *Spirogyra* or some other member of the family *Zygnemataceae*. It coulds also be a *Oedogonium*. Can't tell with out a microscope.


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## plantbrain

Jay Luto said:


> Hey Dennis.
> 
> Thanks for feedback. I'm almost positive that the pest is Nitella. Although some Nitella / Chara pictures online are a bit different, the following looks very much alike. Notice buds all around, especially one in right top corner. This is exactly what I see in my tank.
> 
> I'm going to try few more approaches and report back.


Now this defintiely is not Spirogyra, that is a Nitella(not Chara).

Jay, you should be able to remove Nitella(or Chara) manaually.

You can also raise the pH up/KH and that beats Nitella pretty good, but not Chara. Nitella has never become weedy for me, SFAS use to have plenty, they aquarist at GGP had a lot of it.

Spirogyra is far tougher to get rid of.

The Excel/H2O2, etc may not work, copper would be the best as far as selectively removing it. When used correctly(often a difficult thing for some folks), copper is very effective at not hurting plants and targeting algae.

We do this in lake management and in weed control, basically we burn off the algae that covers and protects the weeds, then after the algae is dead, we add the plant specific herbicides that will contact the weed of issue.

Many plants from Hydrilla to Pondweeds are not affected by the copper at proper levels.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## jerseyjay

JLudwig said:


> When someone mails me some Nesea sp. that look as healthy as Jay's, which I've seen in person, I'll maybe consider listening to what they think about his dosing routine. I also have had "perfect" growing conditions with a persistent algae (a blown slime) and solved the problem via algaecides.
> 
> Jeff


Jeff,

Thanks for your feedback and above comments !


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## jerseyjay

SCMurphy said:


> Jay,
> 
> It is definitely not Nitella or Chara. I've seen stuff like that before but it always seems to disappear on it's own. I've never tried to eradicate it with any success that I can claim honors for. How fragile is it?
> 
> Could be *Mougeotia*, *Zygnema*, or *Spirogyra* or some other member of the family *Zygnemataceae*. It coulds also be a *Oedogonium*. Can't tell with out a microscope.


Sean,

I guess I'm going back and forth with the actual ID. I really have to sit down and take a good MACRO photograph so we can ID this pest 100%. It is veryyyyy brittle and is fairly dark green when taken out of the water. I'm really having a hard time believing that this stuff goes away on its own. This pest doubled in 2-3 days. It is OUT OF CONTROL !

I will get back to you.


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## jerseyjay

plantbrain said:


> Now this defintiely is not Spirogyra, that is a Nitella(not Chara).
> 
> Jay, you should be able to remove Nitella(or Chara) manaually.
> 
> You can also raise the pH up/KH and that beats Nitella pretty good, but not Chara. Nitella has never become weedy for me, SFAS use to have plenty, they aquarist at GGP had a lot of it.
> 
> Spirogyra is far tougher to get rid of.
> 
> The Excel/H2O2, etc may not work, copper would be the best as far as selectively removing it. When used correctly(often a difficult thing for some folks), copper is very effective at not hurting plants and targeting algae.
> 
> We do this in lake management and in weed control, basically we burn off the algae that covers and protects the weeds, then after the algae is dead, we add the plant specific herbicides that will contact the weed of issue.
> 
> Many plants from Hydrilla to Pondweeds are not affected by the copper at proper levels.
> 
> Regards,
> Tom Barr


Tom,

I did some research on Nitella and Chara in ponds / lakes and here are some of the options:

- Nitella can be removed by raking or seining
- Grass carp
- Mozambique tilapia
- copper based compounds and alkylamine salts of endothall 
- Hydrothol® 191

The problem is that I'm not 100% sure that this is Nitella. We looked at the pictures with Ghazanfar and he said that it could be in which case he recommended "starving period" with no nutrients and mild light period with present CO2.

I will get back to you all with better pictures.

When I look at the tank, I see pearling plants and this damn pest. There is no way I'm removing this manualy. It is all over the place.


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## zeek

Jay Luto said:


> Next time you want to challenge someone's knowledge or experience, google user's name and think twice.


Jay, 
I have no need to Google your username, I know who you are and I have much respect for your knowledge. I'm sorry that you took offense to my reply, but I was trying to insert a bit of humour and I guess it came off the wrong way.

Isaac


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## JoeHoetzl

Hi Jay, I know you probably don't use any salt in your tanks, but if it is something along the lines of Spirogyra, perhaps a little bit of salt would help disrupting the turgor of the algae, but letting more robust plants survive?
Or maybe a bit heavier salt dose, followed by a water change?

Oh, and if you think mollies would help, call me - don't buy any of em! I have about 40 or so 3 week olds that eat everything in site, but for me, mollies just never did much with algae.


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## jerseyjay

I removed some manually the other day so I didn't have any major samples but here is small piece of java moss with the sample. It doesn't look that bad here. Infect it looks kind of like "hairy" type algae. I tried to look for that "earthy" smell but it didn't smell at all. I'm very tempted to try some rosy barbs / molies / flag-fish.


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## chiahead

Hey Jay is that a pic of it attached to a plant stem or is that part of the algae?


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## jerseyjay

chiahead said:


> Hey Jay is that a pic of it attached to a plant stem or is that part of the algae?


Chiahead,



> here is small piece of java moss with the sample


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## chiahead

sorry I guess I didnt see that in the text. My suggestion is to get some flag fish, they rock almost all types of stringy algae for me. Also, I have done the H2o2 treatment many times with great success. 2-3 ml per gallon should be plenty. Turn off the biological filters during this though as it will kill them. Make sure there is plenty of water moving. I usually wait an hour or so then do a big water change. Good luck and I am interested in an ID and fix.


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## Gonzofish

This algae is a menace. It all started when my reactor lost efficiency. Potassium, magnesium and c02 should be added incrementally until it disappears. SAE's love it, however they defecate phosphate which this algae seems to love.


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## jerseyjay

Gonzofish said:


> This algae is a menace. It all started when my reactor lost efficiency. Potassium, magnesium and c02 should be added incrementally until it disappears. SAE's love it, however they defecate phosphate which this algae seems to love.


Thanks for your feedback.

What do you mean by 
"Potassium, magnesium and c02 should be added incrementally until it disappears" ?

Those should be in check to begin with. Are you saying that excess of above made it go away ?

I got some rosy barbs and they are not even looking at it. I doubt that SAE will do anything. This doesn't look like your typical hair algae.


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## dennis

IME dealing with the coarser algaes like thread, hair and BBA, fish and shrimp tend to ignore them until they are weakend by physical/ chemical means. for example, I find that cardinia japonica and SAE to not eat BBA until it is treated with 2H2O or overdosing Excel. I would treat the entire tank with eithe rof thise methods and CRANK the CO2. Add CO2 until the fish hate you then take it down just a tad. Add a little extra surface movement to help oxygenate the water will alllow a slightly higher CO2 concentration.

Get rid of those barbs before they eat your plants. Mine love Bylxa, hair grass, moss, some bacopa sp, etc.


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## riverrat

I have been battling this crap for a week now. It hasn't got the upperhand yet but it is trying. Argh!.... I haven't ever had thread or hair algae yet. I have only been in this hobby for going on 6 months. 

For the last week I made sure all my water parameters were in line. A week later and this stuff hasn't budged. I did a trim and w/c today. I cleaned...picked.....pruned.....and grumbled. Did w/c and 5 hours later it is on the rampage again. I just shut my filter down and shot 6ml excel on the worst of it. I hold little hope in any affect but still find my toes crossed when I look down at my feet. 

I have only a patch of it like your first picture. This seems to grow on my java fern. Elsewhere I only see threads. If anything I come across kills this stuff I will report back. As I will be watching this thread hoping to hear of a magic arrow that will rid this crap. Copper is out for me as I have shrimp in the tank. 


riverrat


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## Jason Baliban

Hows the fight coming Jay? Did you try spot treatment with excel. I use a syringe full of excel on some claudro and it turned it white in a day. Turn off your circulation for 20 minutes and really let it soak in. Shoot that crap in the face!!

jB


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## riverrat

Okay Jay..... I shot this with some excel tonight and it looked as if the rhizome or whatever the little pod like things are turned a little greyish. Also looked as if they withered a bit. I can not wait to see how much effect it had by tomarrow. I am planing another spot treatment tomarrow night about an hour before lights out. I have a 30gal with shrimp so I am afraid to use much more than 5ml at a time. As Jason said shut filter down and left soak for probably 10 min. then fired filter back up. I will report back tomarrow night or Monday at latest with a followup on progress. DIE :tape2: ALGAE DIE! 

Jay, this algae sticks pretty well to my plants. If I try to manually remove it seems to want to break off away from the plants with small parts left behind. Maybe and inch or so left attached making manual removal impossible for me. Is this so in your case?

riverrat


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## HeyPK

Jay,

Spirogyra and Rhizoclonium are similar in appearance, but easy to tell apart. Spirogyra is soft and slippery to the touch, and the threads have little tensile strength. Rhizoclonium filaments are a lot harder and stronger. With a microscope, the spiral chloroplast can easily be seen in the cells of Spirogyra, whereas the cells of Rhizoclonium are a solid green. The middle picture is a mass of Rhizoclonium


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## jerseyjay

Here is an update ..... good news 

I wanted to wait and make sure that there is nothing left - at least nothing too visible.

Like I said previously, I have never dealt with this type of algae. I don't know where it came from but it definitely wasn't nutrients imbalance. I have been following the same recipe for a while and plants were top notch. I guess this came from "someone" as uninvited guest. I have been following the same approach since day 1 - consistency. This applies to plants, fish and aquatic hobby in general. Drastic changes are usually most problematic.

What I didn't do:
- No Excel treatment
- No H2O2 treatment
- No Algaefix treatment
- No Bleach treatment 
- No NO3 / PO4 treatment

What I did in order:
- minimal manual treatment (obvious effect)
- 50% water change with SAME nutrients routine (minimal effect)
- 2 day blackout (better than above but still present)
- continued same weekly fertilization with 50% water change weekly (algae coming back which means BlackOut helped !)
- decided to try fish - 3 Rosy Barbs (75G tank)
- First 3 days NO results 
- 4th day - 75% algae was GONE !
- 6th day - 99% algae was GONE !
- Throughout this process I did NOT feed the fish

As of today, here is what I see in previously most affected areas:


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## Steveb

I been following this thread as I also have this algae in my tank. 
In my quest to battle this algae I tried manual removal, that didn't work. Then I got about 24 Amano shrimps, that did do anything (that I noticed). So, I'm going out to grab some rosy barbs since Jay have good luck with them. 

One question, do you guys think my Amanos will be safe with the Rosy Barbs?

SteveB


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## jerseyjay

Steveb said:


> One question, do you guys think my Amanos will be safe with the Rosy Barbs?


Steve,

No problems here. Tank is heavy planted so I can barely see them to begin with


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## Capt.

Hi Jay. Good to hear that you got rid of the algae. I have a couple questions for you, if you don't mind.

Did it grow along the substrate as well? I believe I have the same algae in my tank and it seems to mostly grow along the substrate.

I'm hoping to avoid doing any kind of blackout if I can. Any idea what kind of N, P, and/or K levels you maintained? I'd really like to try to eliminate it with manual removal, water changes, and regular nutrient dosing if possible.

Chris


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## jerseyjay

Capt. said:


> Hi Jay. Good to hear that you got rid of the algae. I have a couple questions for you, if you don't mind.
> 
> Did it grow along the substrate as well? I believe I have the same algae in my tank and it seems to mostly grow along the substrate.
> 
> I'm hoping to avoid doing any kind of blackout if I can. Any idea what kind of N, P, and/or K levels you maintained? I'd really like to try to eliminate it with manual removal, water changes, and regular nutrient dosing if possible.
> 
> Chris


Chris,

No it didn't grow along the substrate. It was "all over" the plants, especially "bushy" plants.

Re: levels
I don't check for any of them. As long as you give them weekly dose and reset your values at the end of the week, they will stay happy and grow well. As I mentioned in my last reply ..... Consistency is the KEY !

My weekly dose is 
KNO3 - 1 tsp x 2 weekly
KH2PO4 - 1/8 tsp x 2 weekly
Previously - 1tsp Trace
Currently - 25ml TMG x 2 weekly

I would suggest manual removal, blackout following Excel HIT following some *underfed* mollies or rosy barbs. Should work like a charm.


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## Capt.

Thank you for the prompt response and suggestions. I do have some Excel I can hit it with.

What size tank did you have the algae in? I went back through the thread and couldn't see it mentioned, sorry if I missed it.


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## jerseyjay

Capt. said:


> What size tank did you have the algae in? I went back through the thread and couldn't see it mentioned, sorry if I missed it.


Standard 75G All-Glass


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## gonzoiii

*Other algae eaters*

Hi Jay,
Now I have similar issue.

In my 50G tank I have 10 SAE, 8 Otocunclus and 10 Amano shrimps. Neither of them is interested in that kind of algae.

Could you please tell me whether there were such creatures in your tank before you added the barbs?

best regards
David


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## jerseyjay

gonzoiii said:


> Hi Jay,
> Now I have similar issue.
> 
> In my 50G tank I have 10 SAE, 8 Otocunclus and 10 Amano shrimps. Neither of them is interested in that kind of algae.
> 
> Could you please tell me whether there were such creatures in your tank before you added the barbs?
> 
> best regards
> David


David,

All those were present in my tank prior / during this algae problem.

Good luck !


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## Jane in Upton

Wow, this has been a very interesting thread to follow! Thanks for keeping up with it, and with the follow up questions.

I'm glad you've got it under control. 
-Jane


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## kekon

I had this type of algae each time NO2 (not NO3) was at measurable level (0.1 ppm and above) First, it appeared just after the tank has been run. Second, I had it after dosing erythromycin to get rid of cyanobacteria (the bacteria in the biological filter was killed so it wasn't removing NO2 from the water)


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