# Substrate Redo in established tank



## urville (Sep 20, 2004)

i figure i need to redo the substrate, because the sand is under the gravel and the gravel is too big.... and the sand is raising my gh. i have fish so anything thats gonna be too rough on them is a no no.

i still like sand, and i'm interested in the kitty litter thing, if it wont mush...

ideas and help is greatly appreciated both on the kitty litter thing, anyone who has had to redo a substrate and done so successfully, etc...

maybe schultz aquatic soil and silica sand? local dirt and schultz? peat and schultz? should i go get clay from hobby obby and fire it and then crush it and use that and sand or something else?


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## urville (Sep 20, 2004)

man sometimes asking a question around here is like... futile... 

well i got some size 20 (grit)? Industrial Quartz Sand a.k.a. Silica sand it's not white sorta almost white.. hehehe i think 2mm or 1.5mm... it's the same size as the black beauty, the coarsest they made far more coasre than that Quikrete medium sand at th local Lowe-Depots

they had black beauty, which piqued my interest, but i heard tales of black film on everything which the manager correlated that indeed, it leaves black film on everything....

couldnt find any lime free pulverized quartz in the 3mm range the small stuff that looks like river rock but not as large or epoxy coated... the lfs has plenty IN the tanks but hasnt seen the product for years.

I did however pick up a ten pound bag of schultz Aquatic plant soil which it turns out overnight raised the gh of a glass of whater one dgh but hasnt moved it since... this is day two in the glass....

and i got a bag of schultz 100% pure sphagnum peat moss

so i guess the plan is to put the peat on the glass bottom, not covering it completely. then add a 1" or 1.5" layer of the Aquatic Plant Soil (Arcillite), and then a .75 or " layer of silica sand on top of the Aquatic Soil and go from there? maybe find that quartz river rock and add it to the top of the sand? this is relatively a new frontier for me these substrates...


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## SnyperP (Dec 10, 2004)

The reason why you don't get many responses to your post is most of the people here use commerical brand substrates. I have no experience using peat/schultz/sand combo at all, but if you decide to go with that combo, mix in some sand with your schultz layer. The reason is because it will eventually mix in together anyways, but since you're capping with sand, I imagine you enjoy the look of sand at the top. This will help keep the top layer of substrate as sand only instead of schultz also mixing through.

We always hear a big question around here. Do you need to go with expensive commercial brand substrates? Of course not, but is there a benefit to using them? Yes. GL.


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## Paul S (Jul 13, 2005)

*check your KH*

At present I've got a 100 gal. tank set up somewhat like yours. I use Profile Soil Conditioner (similar to what you are using) for the top 3" only with some mulm and a little bit of peat moss underneath.
I had to buffer up my KH several times to get it to match my tap water (KH5).
It has stabilized now but my TDS is still higher than my other tanks.
This tank has regulated CO2 input also and the plants are doing good.
Initial hair algae is under control now (thanks to the Ameca Splendens). Glosso and several varieties of stem plants are growing at a rate that I have to trim now every 3 days or so.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

As SnyperP said, most folks use commercial substrates so the response to your post is low. The folks that have already used SAPS, either mixed or straight, have probably already responded to your previous posts or were part of the original thread and probably don't feel the need to give the same answers again since it is assumed you have already read those posts 

Anytime I set up a new substrate for a high light, CO2 injected tank, I use a fine dusting of peat followed by mulm. The substrate is added on top of this layer.

As far as your GH raising, did you do multiple tests on the water or just one? Also, did you dilute the sample to give you a more accurate reading? A GH rise of 1 dGH could be either an error on the test/tester's part (different size drops or miscounted drops) or the fact that the test kit is actually reading between 5 and 6 dGH. Anytime I get a result on my test kit that is different than expected, I always re-test to verify the result 

As mentioned before, I think the SAPS and silica sand would be the way to go, depending of course on your GH readings over the next week or so.

Unless the SAPS raises the GH a lot over the next week _and_ you plan on keeping soft water (Tonina, Eriocaulon, etc) type plants in the tank, I wouldn't worry about the GH rise. You will be doing week water changes won't you?

If all of this bothers you, simply omit the SAPS and go with a dusting of peat, mulm, and the silica sand. Better LFSs will have silica sand in larger bags as will most pool supply stores. It is usually fairly inexpensive also...~$10 for 50lbs. If you feel the need to put something in the sand for your plants to get to, fertilizer tabs can be found online. I don't feel the need to supplement the root systems if the water column will be fertilized sufficiently...but that is just an unscientific opinion on my part


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## urville (Sep 20, 2004)

PaulS-
really? do you think thats because the Schultz is sucking up everything to a point where it becomes saturated and then begins releasing it slowly? perhaps that it took up all your carbonates, or maybe that your tap is high in phos and the schultz took that up? i think both carbonate and phos make up kh dont they?

MP-
no this was supposed to be more about advice on redoing substrate in an established tank, and layering methods of any kind... where as my other questions were about whether SAPS was worth using at all? you know.
what goes where. does it greatly effect the performace if instead of the peat being on bottom, it's in the middle of the others? or is the reult the same? is there a formula? should everything be put in a bowl and tossed like salad? hehehe
but you answered all that. and i do like the sand look, plus its softer for planting and moving things around
btw i got the silica for 7.50 100lb bag at a local aggragate place
do any of you guys have any experience using superthrive in a tank. tom had mentioned it but didnt go into details.


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## urville (Sep 20, 2004)

well i changed the bed and what a job it was...

let me tell you that schultz took forever to run anywhere near clear and i never really got it there but close. the quartz<silica> sand too. it looks like reef sand but i dont care. i rather like it when i planted i got a alot of air bubbles up, that schultz is super pourus. i put down peat and left some mulm, then added about an inch and a half or so of schultz, (one ten pound bag), and then about an inch of sand. but i did this so that it's only about 1 to 2 inches in front and 3 or 4 in the back to give it depth. see before and after pics at the bottom of this post. it is super cloudy right now but everyone looks healthy. i did lose some plants though, i guess i underestimated how quickly they can dry out even though the roots were completely submersed.. oh well... it didnt take the ph long to get back to 6.6 with that co2, my kh is 3 and my gh is 4. so we'll see how these numbers pan out in the weeks ahead. i hope my bacteria come back quickly. i added a nylon toe of old surface gravel and about a gallon of old water to help.

also when i planted i got up shultz on the bed surface which at first upset me and then i noticed that it looks more to me like a river bed than it did with that river rock. so i'm actually quite happy with it
with the new driftwood i tried harder this time to envision a final look, put the microswords further back as a midground plant and focused more on future look than at the moment. some peat<not much> escped into the water column i swear i tried hard, it still got out. i used my python for the forst time to suck it down and fill it. i put in the Prime midway through filling, a little more than i needed. you know i hardly got any air mixing in and yet the tank was enshrouded by bubbles. which is weird. i have never seen that before. the plants "look" like they are pearling but it's hard for me to believe.
tomorrow i go back to fertilizing

i hope to have my new plants here the ninth, but it may take till the 12th. mosses here i come.

i'll also be culturing mosses i found locally in a seperate container, so wish me luck on that too. i still dont get why the tetras dont school. black neons, neons, and i think NOT SURE...13 all together. they are all very closely related you can tell...

before...









After... Still Cloudy


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