# [Wet Thumb Forum]-dead leaves in an aquarium



## graham1212 (Oct 13, 2004)

ive seen dead leaves in photos of blackwater rivers, and have heard they help to bring the pH down. Has anybody tried this? what types of leaves would be suitable? would they eventually pollute the tank? 

graham


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## graham1212 (Oct 13, 2004)

ive seen dead leaves in photos of blackwater rivers, and have heard they help to bring the pH down. Has anybody tried this? what types of leaves would be suitable? would they eventually pollute the tank? 

graham


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Leaves are just another form of organic matter. Fresh leaves, which are filled with readily digestible proteins and sugars, decompose quickly. Probably not a good idea. Autumn leaves from trees will decompose much more slowly and be safer. Whether they'll help with pH, I don't know. 

Why do you want to bring the pH down? My tanks are all between 7 and 8 and doing fine. Only reason I can think of to lower pH is if you're raising really picky softwater fish and plants.


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## graham1212 (Oct 13, 2004)

i want to keep fish that are native to blackwater rivers in south america. i would like to keep the tank conditions as close to their natural habitat as possible. right now i have a 30gallon set up where i am learning about the type of maintenence required for keeping plants. i plan to use this as practice for at least six months then set up a much larger blackwater biotope that hopefully contains discus or altum angels. i probably will start with more common angelfish to be on the safe side but discus/altums are my ultimate goal. they prefer low ph in soft water so that is the type of tank im attempting to keep. 

im very curious about your soil substrate techniques. i was also wondering if you've ever tried using a layer a peat above or below the soil

thanks a lot for the help,
graham


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by graham1212:
> i want to keep fish that are native to blackwater rivers in south america. i would like to keep the tank conditions as close to their natural habitat as possible. right now i have a 30gallon set up where i am learning about the type of maintenence required for keeping plants. i plan to use this as practice for at least six months then set up a much larger blackwater biotope that hopefully contains discus or altum angels. i probably will start with more common angelfish to be on the safe side but discus/altums are my ultimate goal. they prefer low ph in soft water so that is the type of tank im attempting to keep.
> ...


No, I have never tried using a layer of peat above or below the soil.

I would be careful not to get too caught up in details. If the plants are growing well and the water is not too hard and you feed your fish well, your Discus should be fine.


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## skylsdale (Jun 2, 2004)

The thing is that blackwater stream and pool habitats that you are talking about generally don't have any live plants growing in them (they are EXTREMELY few and far between). If you're going for something fairly authentic, I would suggest a very dark substrate, a layer of leaf litter, and some branches. Keep in mind that many of these water bodies are heavily shaded within the forest, so any 'green matter' has a pretty hard time growing.

Some of the best dead/dried leaves to use for your tank (i.e. don't break down very quickly) are oak and possibly elm. I have used elm, and they definitely stained the water (my group Sphearichthys osphromenoides loved it). If you have access to magnolia trees, I would give them a try as well (not sure how well they will hold up, but their shape and form will much more closely replicate the type of dead leaves and foliage found in a tropical forest). If all else fails, buy yourself some blackwater extract (I believe Tetra was the brand I tried).

But as Diana said, if you plan on keeping discus, don't go messing with your water chemistry. Work on keeping things STABLE, which is going to keep them healthier than the levels always shifting around as you're trying to make the water chemistry as 'authentic' as possible. Try to find a discus breeder in your area as they will most likely be breeding their fish in local water...so they will already be raised and accustomed to what you're working with.

The altums, however, are a different story. They are pretty much wild-caught, I believe...but I could very well be wrong. I would recommend spending some time here if you haven't already (especially the wild forum): http://www.angelfish.net/yabbse/index.php And, if you haven't been here, either...the premier forum on discus, IMO: http://www.simplydiscus.com/forum/


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

i ran peat in my fluval for 2 months, and with just a cup of peat, it lowered my 30 gallon tank's ph from 7.1 to 6.4 in 3 days. i was shocked when i checked it.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by russell:
> i ran peat in my fluval for 2 months, and with just a cup of peat, it lowered my 30 gallon tank's ph from 7.1 to 6.4 in 3 days. i was shocked when i checked it.


This is good information (I love it when people quantitate their findings!). Thank you.

Peat is like an ion-exchange resin. It exchanges its acid ions (H+) for the calcium (Ca++) and magnesium (Mg++) in the water. Thus, it will both lower the pH and soften the water.

Adding peat to the filter (rather than the substrate) will speed up this ion-exchange process.


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