# Feedback Etiquette--What's your take?



## mikenas102 (Feb 8, 2006)

I wanted to get a feel on people's opinions of feedback etiquette be it Ebay, iTrader,etc. In my opinion and the way I have always practiced it, the seller should be the first to leave the feedback. Once the buyer has paid promptly and properly, the buyers end of the deal is finished. At this point, I feel the seller should be obligated to leave feedback for the buyer even before the package is delivered. However, it seems so many sellers feel it is the buyers obligation to leave feedback first. I think this is just plain WRONG! As I said, once payment is made, the buyers end of the deal has been fulfilled. It is not until the package is delivered, inspected and determined to be correct that the sellers end of the deal is fulfilled. I believe sellers who hold off on leaving feedback until the buyer has left feedback are in a way holding the buyers reputation hostage. Almost as if the buyer wasn't satisfied because the seller screwed up and the buyer were to leave the seller bad feedback, the seller would in return leave bad feedback just to get back at the buyer. I have sold a ton of stuff on forums and Ebay and as a seller I have always left feedback as soon as the buyer pays. Actually, I usually leave feedback the day I ship out the package and use the message section that only the buyer sees as a way to let them know the package has shipped. Am I wrong for expecting others to treat me the same? How do you all feel feedback should be handled?


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## slickwillislim (Oct 11, 2005)

I guess I agree but I never really thought about it. If this where the case then the seller should be allowed to post a response. 

Its a topic worth bringing up but I wouldn't expect it from every seller. I have sold a few things and waited for the buyer to respond it was just easier. If they had posted something negative, given legitimate reasons or pm'd me first to resolve the problem then I would accept the feedback and move on. Its a shame not every one feels that way.


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## erijnal (Apr 5, 2006)

On places like APC (and I guess PT too), I definitely feel comfortable leaving feedback first if I'm the seller. *Most* people you deal with are reasonable and you have a place to talk back and forth if a transaction goes awry. Also, leaving feedback first definitely helps the buyer feel safer about a transaction. So here, I believe it should be common practice.

On sites like eBay, it's a different story, IMO. You have no idea if the buyer will jump the gun and leave you bad feedback without trying to resolve the issue first. With so many people carrying around a ridiculous sense of "Consumer gets everything," even in situations where they're dealing with a single person, I'm not going to go out on a limb and leave feedback unless I know what I promised made it to the buyer and the buyer is satisfied.


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## Six (May 29, 2006)

I would like to agree, I mean, it makes sense to agree. I just never do it that way. On APC I may leave a buyer feedback first, but on eBay, no way. I used to leave feedback first and get nothing in return. Nothing, not even a confirmation that the box arrived. I thought that was just, you know, a one time thing. Nope. People would buy and just forget to leave any feedback. It's hard to sell without feedback. (On eBay) 

How do you guys feel about leaving neutral feedback for really annoying customers? I've sold stuff to people who were really pushy and very demanding/hard to take care of. Wouldn't it be nice to warn others about that? I just never do it. It's kinda all a bunch of bull. No one wants to leave negative feedback. I mean, who on APC has ANY negative feedback? I've seen no one. Just makes you wonder.


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## gnatster (Mar 6, 2004)

I agree with the first post. When I sell no matter the location I always leave feedback after the buyer pays. I always ship with a way to confirm delivery too. 

Six...there have been a few instances of Negative Feedback on APC. As an admin (quiet one behind the scenes mostly these days) I get a notification email if negative feedback is left. We only look to see if a pattern is developing, we leave the feedback to self policing for the most part. The fine print part. We at APC do not intervene to resolve issues between buyers and sellers. We do monitor and if a seller or buyer becomes an issue we may step in and ban the user.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

mikenas102 said:


> Once the buyer has paid promptly and properly, the buyers end of the deal is finished....


To be honest I don't really agree with that. If you as the seller leave a positive comment first after the buyer has simply paid you promptly that same buyer might complain about something unreasonable after receiving the package. The buyer's "end of the deal" is done when he receives the package and leaves the appropriate feedback. Not saying this happens alot, but it does happen.

I would thing ebay has some language to what they determine to be appropriate.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

*For myself,*

As a seller, I leave feedback the day the package goes out with the tracking information in the comment section. This way I remind myself and tell the buyer that package is out for delivery. The deal is officially done when buyer reports back.

As a buyer, I leave feedback when I receive the package. The deal is done then.

Either way, for me it doesn't really matter. I'm confident people will be satisfied with what they receive; and when buying something I would resolve any issues before leaving feedback.

-John N.


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## Minsc (May 7, 2006)

houseofcards said:


> To be honest I don't really agree with that. If you as the seller leave a positive comment first after the buyer has simply paid you promptly that same buyer might complain about something unreasonable after receiving the package. The buyer's "end of the deal" is done when he receives the package and leaves the appropriate feedback. Not saying this happens alot, but it does happen.
> 
> I would thing ebay has some language to what they determine to be appropriate.


I agree with this 100%.


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## Squawkbert (Jan 3, 2007)

While I see the logic in the original post, I also can see where the seller could be hung out to dry by being first to leave feedback. It seems that the convention is to wait, if you're the seller. It seems that buyers pay a lot more attention to feedback than sellers do anyway, so the convention of buyer being first to leave feedback is probably reasonable despite being wrong, from the perspective of Emily Post.


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## Grubs (Jul 4, 2007)

I disagree with the OP. As a seller I would only leave feedback after I knew the customer was completely happy and that any and all problems had been resolved. Normally this is after they leave feedback for me. - Of course its never been an issue as I've never had any problems


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## mikenas102 (Feb 8, 2006)

Great points all. As a buyer, I never leave feedback if a seller does not leave it for me first. Would this warrant a seller to leave negative feedback for me because I'm waiting him out? It's never happened to me but I have read other peoples feedback and seen comments like that. I strongly agree with John N. that as a good, honest seller, I'm very confident that the buyer will satisfied with what I send. If you're nervous about what the buyer may say then maybe you've not been completely honest or fair. 
Ebay does allow a seller to leave a 2nd response if a buyer leaves bad feedback. I don't know the process but I have seen it in other people's feedback plenty of times. With that being said, I don't see a reason NOT to leave feedback first as a seller. 
Six makes a good point about the neutral feedback. There's nothing more annoying than somebody trying to talk you down over a $3 or $4 plant. I mean really, come on now. I've also pondered whether neutral or negative feedback should be left in iTrader or pTrader for people who respond to a FS post and ask for your Paypal address then seem to disappear without another response or payment sent. Since we don't conduct auctions in the For Sale section you can't technically consider them a non-paying bidder however they still backed out of a deal. I've never seen neutral or negative feedback left in those instances.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

When I'm the seller (on E-bay or Aqua bid), I only leave feedback after I know the buyer has received their item in satisfactory condition, and I state that clearly in all of my auction descriptions. If I'm the buyer, I don't expect the seller to leave feedback until I've done so first either.

I used to leave it as soon as the buyer paid, but I got stung once, and that was enough to learn my lesson. Unfortunately there are some jerks in the world, so we do have to keep our guard up to a point or get smeared by those few dishonest people.



mikenas102 said:


> I strongly agree with John N. that as a good, honest seller, I'm very confident that the buyer will satisfied with what I send. If you're nervous about what the buyer may say then maybe you've not been completely honest or fair.


That should normally be true, but if you've sent a nice package of healthy plants to someone only to have them leave them sitting out in the extreme heat or cold all day, then have them claim you sent them dead plants, it's just a little defense to wait until you've heard they arrived okay. I've seen it happen on this board and other places quite often, so it is sort of a common problem.

That is also a good point about not wanting to leave neutral or negative feedback. I've only left neutral feedback once on E-bay, and by rights it should have been negative, but it's not telling you much if everyone has all positive if it's not a real reputable seller or buyer.
I do like the new system E-bay has for rating the different aspects of a deal, so people can see where the seller is lacking.


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## ringram (Jan 10, 2005)

I agree that that seller should leave feedback once the buyer has paid and the package has been shipped. If you wait for the buyer to leave feedback first, then you're basically just waiting to see what he/she says about you and use that as the tone of your feedback comment (good, bad, etc).
In a recent transaction with a buyer that I sold some plants to, I left him positive feedback as he had paid quickly and everything was shipped out -- smooth transaction. Well, he sent me a PM back saying that my leaving feedback was a bit premature and just because he was a "nice guy", he would go ahead and leave me feedback as well. I was pretty taken back as I've been doing the same thing for over a year and this is the first time anyone has griped about it.

I sort of applaud the idea of neutral or negative feedback for people who send a PM asking for paypal address or how much it is (the price is ALWAYS on the FS post) and then mysteriously disappear. On the other hand, it's not really an auction site, so they're not technically a non-paying bidder, but it IS this site's equivalent of one. I've had this happen a few times and it's always a little annoying, especially when you have time sensitive things like plants or shrimp waiting to go out. Generally, as a remedy for this, if a day passes and it looks like the person isn't going to pay, I'll send a PM saying that it went to the next person in line.

-Ryan


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## AQUAMX (Jan 24, 2005)

Hmm

I always leave feedback for the buyer the minute i send the item. When the buyer pays promptly his end of the deal is complete. It is then up to the buyer to leave feedback that reflects his/her feelings on the item.

As a seller, waiting for feedback from the buyer shows a lack of confidence in what your doing.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

My policy is to leave good feedback where good feedback is due, regardless of whether the other person reciprocates. In the case of selling I always try to leave feedback before people receive their plants. Some of the people I've sold to / traded with dozens of times will leave me good faith feedback in return knowing that they'll either receive the plants they ordered plus some, or I'll happily resolve any issues that come up.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

I also think that you should leave feedback as soon as the buyer pays. Ebay's rules state that is what sellers are supposed to do (when I began selling about a year ago). Ebay does have a response to negative feedback system where you can explain your side. I don't know what APC's rules are. Not leaving feedback at that time DOES hold the buyer's feedback hostage. That is the point. Everyone's post here says that is why they give feedback AFTER the buyer. Everybody knows that you can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time. To expect that as a seller OR buyer is a little unrealistic. There's always gonna be that stupid unreasonable guy out there. To have a system were it's made fake because no one can be honest with feedback makes that system invalid. Just my opinion.


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## ryzilla (Feb 3, 2007)

Well since this semi old thread was revived I will tell you my take. 

I have always believed it should be the buyers duty to leave feedback first. The reason I say this is becasue the seller makes an obligation to the buyer that the goods will be packed accordingly and will arrive as stated in the forsale post. 

The sellers duty does not finish as soon as the buyer pays. If it was the case that the duty of the seller ends there and the seller should not be held accountable for shotty shipping methods or less then quality goods.

It is the buyers obligation to check all the goods to make sure that the seller has held up to their end. Once it has been determined that all is well by the end user(buyer) then the buyer has two logical choices. 

The first option is to leave a positive feedback that notifies the seller that the sellers end of the transaction is finished and that the products/plants are as expected or close to acceptable condition. The second option is sending a private message to the seller letting them know that the sellers end of the transaction is not complete because the products/plants are less then what was stated by the seller.

If it was not for the buyer leaving feedback first how is the seller to know that all that was promised has been completed. Everytime and I meen everytime that I sell anything I never leave a feedback until the buyer leaves me a positive feedback or has notified me that my plants/livegoods/products have arrived anything less then acceptable. If they ever arrived less then acceptable(only happened to me once in over 2 yrs on TPT) then I do what I can to fullfill the conditions I stated in the forsale thread to ensure the buyer is happy and I get a positive feedback.

If a buyer does not leave a feedback then It is no longer my obligation to ensure that the transaction went well, and I am not obligated to leave them a feedback without knowing that I have fullfilled my end of the transaction. Why would I(the seller) leave them a feedback without knowing that the transaction was accepted by the end user? I could leave them a positive feedback as soon as they pay, but how is that feedback accurate if I have no idea how they have responded to my package. How can I assume the package arrived in the conditions that I have stated before it even gets to the end user? This is why it is important for the buyer to leave the first feedback.


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## mikenas102 (Feb 8, 2006)

Tex Gal said:


> Not leaving feedback at that time DOES hold the buyer's feedback hostage. That is the point. To have a system were it's made fake because no one can be honest with feedback makes that system invalid. Just my opinion.


IMO that's probably the best way I've seen it summed up. Why bother with the whole system if it's artificial?


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## mikenas102 (Feb 8, 2006)

ryzilla said:


> I could leave them a positive feedback as soon as they pay, but how is that feedback accurate if I have no idea how they have responded to my package. .


Ry, how they respond to the package has no bearing on the feedback they are owed. If somebody paid you on time, answered all your PM's almost immediately and was cordial, would you leave them anything other than positive feedback regardless of how they felt about your package?


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## majolo (Oct 5, 2007)

Tex Gal said:


> Ebay's rules state that is what sellers are supposed to do (when I began selling about a year ago).


I don't believe this is correct. From Ebay's help page on How Do I Leave Feedback:
While leaving Feedback is voluntary, eBay encourages all members to leave Feedback after each transaction is complete. There are different philosophies on whether the buyer or seller should leave Feedback first. Each member may choose the best approach to leaving Feedback for them.​
If there's another page that says otherwise, I'd be interested in it.


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## spypet (Jul 27, 2007)

I wait till the product and payment are both confirmed to be received before I leave any feedback. This gives me a chance to make good on any trade discrepancies before finalizing my trade with feedback. So after all my confirmation trouble, those who do not return positive feedback in kind, are nothing but lazy slobs.


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## ryzilla (Feb 3, 2007)

mikenas102 said:


> Ry, how they respond to the package has no bearing on the feedback they are owed. If somebody paid you on time, answered all your PM's almost immediately and was cordial, would you leave them anything other than positive feedback regardless of how they felt about your package?


You are correct, how they respond to the feedback has no bearing on what they are owed. It is the completion of the process that has a bearing on the feedback they are owed. If they dont complete the process of accessing there products and reporting back to me via pm of feedback how am I to know what I have done is complete.

For me feedback is the final step of the transaction process. IMHO the buyers responsibility towards the transaction is more then a payment. They are also responsible for notifing me that all the goods have been recieved as promised.

Here is an example:

Buyer sends me a payment for plants he/she wants. I send them the plants via USPS priority with confirmation shipping. 10 days goes by and I have not heard one word from the buyers. Later on that 10th day they pm me and say that their plants arrived but were in less then stated condition. That buyer now requests I send him/her a new batch. I say "no way" you waited to long to communicate back to me that the shipment arrived in proper condition. The buyer gives me a negative feedback and I give them a negative feedback in return for not being a more responsible buyer.

If I do it your way then I leave the a positive feedback before I have enough information to determine if they are responsible buyers or not. IMHO the purpose of the feedback is to gain credibility. Credibility is earned by more then just prompt payment. Prompt payment is a superficial way to judge the quality of the transaction.

If I ever decide to do it your way I would have to leave a feedback like this. " Prompt payment but I cannot judge the character of the buyer do to lack of information"

How would you like to sell to someone who has a feedback like that. At the very least I leave, "Great buyer" This atleast states that my general feeling about the whole transaction is A++.

The feedback is a way to let other buyers and sellers know a quick and dirty description of the other party involved in the transaction so at a later time they may reference it to determine if they want to do business with that party. When transactions are condcted here there is a very informal choice of wheather the buyer and seller want to conduct business with each other, on Ebay there is no choice. If I click "buy now" you better deliver my goods, over here there is no "buy now" button. I can send you your funds back if I want to and revoke your right to my goods. This is another reason why it is important to judge both the qualatative and quantatative aspect of the transaction.

The culture of this forum is that of a close informal community. There is a closeness here. People know each other by first names. For me to jedge these people who are part of the same community on just prompt payment would be selling them short. On ebay you can sell them short because it is on an institutional scale. It is very informal. There is no community and you can judge them soley on a measurable scale.


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