# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Journal: natural nano tanks



## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

I'm a little new here, but I've been taking the Walstad-esque experimental philosophy with my micro tanks (2.5 gal and 0.75 gal aquavase). I thought I would share my experiences with everyone.

These tanks initially started just as experiments to see which plants, substrate, lighting, etc. would work. At the time I wasn't concerned with aquascaping - data collection was the main purpose. So please forgive the less than ideal aesthetics.

My principal goal was to start with the lowest-tech, lowest-maintenance approach, then make observations and slowly add technology/maintenance only when deemed absolutely necessary. My only other tank experience was the doomed-for-failure inert gravel/low light "beginner" approach that left me disillusioned with the whole hobby a few years ago. After reading Diana's book my interest was rekindled thanks to a much more thorough understanding of the biological and ecological mechanisms involved (Thanks Diana!!). If you want to understand what the heck is REALLY going on in your tank, this book is without peer and is bar-none the best.

I decided to give onyx sand a try since I liked its looks and the high tech folks seem to love it. This was one splurge item. The other splurge was the compact fluorescent lighting.

Well my efforts have been rewarded and over the last two months I've been amazed with stability of my low-tech tanks. My nitrates are not measureable (using dip strips), and I'm not measuring any ammonia or nitrites either (although I am using seachem prime to condition my tapwater). ph, hardness, alkalinity seems stable. I've heard a few people say that they've had ph and alkalinity problems when mixing peat and onyx sand, but I have observed no problems whatsoever in this regard. The plants and critters all seem to be loving the environment. I did a large water change a few weeks ago, but as of today I see no evidence that suggests that I need a water change.

Equipment
The 2.5 gal has:
- 18 W CF at 5000k and 6700K, getting some ambient sun from a west-facing window.
- 70/30 mixture of onyx sand and potting soil
- 2 guppies, 1 endlers male, 4pond snails, and a few malaysian trumpet snails
- swords, hairgrass, vals, and crypts
- no filter or artificial water movement
- no heater, room stays around 70, but sometimes heats up a few degrees when we turn on the fireplace

I used DIY CO2 for the first 3 weeks, when there were only snails in the tank. I did this to give the plants a leg up on algae and to speed their transplantation. Then I removed the CO2 injection and added the three fish. I was initially concerned about the bioload, but I haven't noticed any problems (yet).

I was also intially concerned about the lack of temperature control and water movement, but I see no evidence that anything is amiss. The swords, hairgrass, and vals are growing like crazy - sending out new leaves every few days. The crypts are doing okay, growing slower as one might expect. The snails are laying eggs all the time, but the eggs and any surviving babies are eaten by the guppies almost immediately. So snail population seems to be under control.










I'm having a similar experience with my 0.75 gal red sea aqua vase.
- 7 W CF 5000K
- layering of onyx sand over pure gardening peat (boiled first to waterlog it)
- 1 ghost shrimp, 2 cherry shrimp, and 1 pond snail initially
- a variety of small swords (tenellus, lilaopsis, a few others)

This tank also seems to be doing great as far as I can tell. It seemed to take a bit longer for the plants to establish (probably because I didn't jump start this tank with DIY CO2). I don't know if the boiling (i.e. sterilizing) of the peat also set back the colonization of bacteria in the substrate. The e. tenellus and the lilaopsis are sending out a lot of runners now, and the other swords are sending up a new leaf every week or so.

The bioload is starting to grow right now from both the snails and shrimp. I removed the prolific adult snail and now there are a few dozen baby snails that will probably cause problems down the road if I don't do something about it. One of the cherries also gave birth to about a dozen babies, which probably don't add much load right now, but eventually I'm going to need to find them a new home.

Anyhow, my own experience seems to suggest so far that water movement is not really critical with small tanks like these. I imagine that fish movements may provide a sufficient mechanism for disturbing nutrient-deficient boundary layers around the plants.

Other stuff:
- tap water is moderate hardness (~120 ppm), alkalinity is ~80 ppm, ph is off the chart due to water company adding soda ash
- water is treated with seachem prime and left to sit at room temp until next water change


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Here's my 0.75-gal aqua vase...


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

So far I've been putting in a single crab cuisine nugget, or a tiny chunk of algae-eater wafer broken down to about the same size. Hikari brands. It's a tiny amount of food. I suspect you could use most any fish food though. People who have fish+shrimp usually say they rarely feed the shrimp (or snails) specifically, so they probably aren't too picky with the diet (they're detritivores after all).

I feed maybe 3-6 times a week, I haven't had a rigorous schedule. It's pretty much whenever I look in the tank and want to be entertained by the feeding frenzy







. Everyone seems happy from what I gather. The shrimp babies are active, growing, and look healthy so I'll take that as a good sign. And there's almost no algae to speak of.


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## MyraVan (Feb 13, 2005)

Hmmmmmm. I've just set up a small 5gal planted tank, with plain potting soil & gravel substrate. Plants are marselia crenata, micro sag, anubias nana, lobelia cardinalis, and crypt wendtii. Lighting is from an 11W flourescent desk lamp (cheaper than proper aquarium lighting). Current residents are two snails: an apple snail, and a nerite algae-eating snail. And, much to my annoyance, some baby pond snails. 

I occasionally find some 6mm or so sized pond snails in my big (20g) tank, but I never see tiny ones on my tank glass. I bet you anything that those piggy rosy barbs eat them, thus keeping the population well under control. 

I had thought of keeping this tiny tank as an invert tank (I'll add some shrimps later), but without anything eating the baby snails, I've going to have far too many pond snails. 

littleguy got me thinking: could I add just one guppy to keep the snails under control? No more than one, I don't want baby guppies... Would one guppy be ahppy on its own? As far I know, they aren't schooling fish...


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

I've never actually heard anyone say that guppies eat snails, it's just something I've observed. I doubt if guppies are the best snail eaters in the world. In fact just yesterday I noticed a new baby snail that managed to sneak past the guppies long enough to grow to an unedible size for the guppies.

I've heard that bettas really like to eat snails. I would imagine a betta would love a 5 gal tank all to himself and would not feel lonely. But I've never owned a betta so I can't say from experience.

I've heard that puffers and loaches also love snails... again I have no experience there.


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## MyraVan (Feb 13, 2005)

The thing is, I already have some nice snails that I want to keep in the tank: the apple snail and the nerite. Bettas are nice fish (at least I think they would be; I haven't had them so far). But I've read that they have a habit of knocking snails off of things and trying to eat them. The apple snail would probably be just fine -- he would hide in his shell, and the betta would eventually give up and they'd get along fine. But the nerite wouldn't fare so well: it doesn't have an operculum (at least I think that's what the shell door is called) so if the betta managed to knock it off it would be dead meat. All too literally.

That's why I liked your idea of the guppy. I wouldn't mind it missing a few baby pond snails, as long as it didn't attack my nice snails.

Would a guppy be really lonely on its own, as the only fish along with some nice snails and shrimp?


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Good point. Hadn't thought of the other snails.

Livebearers don't seem to school the same way that tetras do for example. But that doesn't necessarily mean they'd be happy all by themselves either.

Is it critical that you only have one fish? If you're worried about overpopulation, maybe just keep members of the same sex?


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## MyraVan (Feb 13, 2005)

I wanted this tank to be an invert tank only, so I could put in different kinds of snails and shrimp to see what they are like. My "big tank" (only 20 gal, so probably quite small for many of you!)at home has rosy barbs, which would eat small shrimps and would probably terrorize the apple snail by trying to bite off its antennae. I wanted to keep it fish-free so that I could have as many inverts in there as possible. However, the pond snail problem means that that isn't going to work...

I'm beginning to accept the fact that, other than bettas and dwarf puffers, which would attack my nice snails as well as eating the baby pond snails, there aren't any single fish that I could put in the tank that would be happy on their own. 

So maybe it will have to be two or three small fish after all, and I won't be able to have much in the way of shrimp in the tank...


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## javalee (May 8, 2006)

Hi, I just thought I'd respond to the betta issue. Bettas all have different temperments. Some are quite docile if you add them after other inhabitants are established. Mine is a male wimp and was actually attacked by my ghost shrimp and never vice-versa. He lives in my 10g planted with an oto and a cherry barb too and only bluffs and "shows off" (which I enjoy). Since bettas come from stagnant, overgrown swamps and ditches natural, filter-less, planted tanks are a perfect home for them. 







Just a plug for my favorite fish.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Dear Littleguy,

Thanks for posting pictures of your two tanks. They're very pretty, certainly the equal of many larger tanks.


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Thanks!


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

Check out the Endlers R Us forum
http://endlersr.us/modules.php?name=Forums&file=index
John Endler the guy who collected the first Endlers recently joined is interested in hearing about people's experience crossbreeding endlers with guppies.

Betty


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## superjohnny (Jul 31, 2004)

Hey littleguy that Red Sea tank is not 3/4 gallon bye the way... it's a 5/8 gallon.

I think that's somewhere beyond Nano and more like a pico







Great looking tanks you got there.


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Thanks!

5/8-gal... good to know


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Here's an updated photo, 10 months later:


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

Looks like it's doing well. 
Don't see much hairgrass... that's interesting.


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Here's what has transpired in the past 10 months:

I ripped out (most) of the hairgrass (Eleocharis) since it was starting to overtake the tank and look a bit unkempt. The Vals are sending out runners and seem to be doing well. The Crypts (lucens on the right, lutea on the left) are really filling out well and looking very healthy. The Echinodorus is still sending up a new leaf every so often.

In terms of water quality.... I have changed the water maybe once in the last ten months. Nitrates/nitrites/ammonia levels are zero. The general hardness has gone up a bit (maybe from the onyx sand?). Evaporation is virtually nil in this tank, so that is not a cause of the hardening.

Still no heater or filter. The temperature stays between 70-73 degrees most of the time (room temperature, with a bit of heat from the lighting). Just swapped the 5000K bulb yesterday, starting to look a little dim.

In terms of maintenance over the past 8 months - I pretty much neglected the thing for the whole summer and part of the fall, just feeding the fish. I missed two weeks of feeding when I was on vacation... I think it might have had an impact on the baby shrimp, either through starvation or predation by the guppies. Over this period of neglect, the plants continued to grow, the snails multiplied a bit, the first generation of guppies died and was replaced by its kin. The only real die offs I've noticed in the past few months has been the juvenile shrimps, that seemed to dissappear one by one over several months (at one point there were more than 30 babies in the tank). Maybe they were eaten or maybe they naturally fought each other for space as they grew in such tight quarters.... Just conjecture.

Anyhow, long story short... this has been an extremely low maintenance tank. The shrimp and plants have been quite successful at virtually eliminating all algae... except for one particular type. There is one species that slowly grows in the tank unabated. It forms very long threads, forking every centimeter or two. It is not difficult to remove at all - about once a month I put a stick in the water, twirl it several times like spaghetti, and pull out big clumps. This process hardly disturbs the plants. I'm not sure what type of algae this is, maybe one of the more advanced plant-like green algaes? I could probably find a way to combat it naturally (adjusting the lighting cycle, doing more water changes, etc.), but since it's not a major nuisance I'm leaving "good enough" alone.

Anyhow, just wanted to add my anecdotes for what they're worth... maybe my experiences will help someone with similar water or equipment.


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Oh, I should add, I tore down the 5/8-gallon aquavase at the beginning of the summer and dumped all the shrimp from it into the 2.5 gallon tank (the one in the photos)... The aquavase was evaporating quite a bit with its open top, and I knew it might be a problem when I went on vacation for two weeks.

Speaking of the aquavase, it was also doing quite well at the time I broke it down. The lilaeopsis and echinodorus tenellus were growing like weeds. Shame I couldn't keep it longer...


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## Plant Crazy (Apr 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by littleguy:
> Here's my 0.75-gal aqua vase...


Love your aqua vase set up! I had a couple of questions:

1- Where did you get the clip-on CF light fixture? (Is it Red Sea?)
2- Did you fertilize the water or supplement with Flourish Excel or DIY CO2?

Thanks!


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Thanks! The light and tank are the red sea moon glow - I swapped out the black light for a 5000K bulb. I didn't use the HOB filter that came with it.

I didn't fertilize or anything - I was seeing how low-tech I could go. The plants looked fine - they were all swords, so I presume they got iron from the substrate. I mixed peat with the gravel - I suppose that was a source of slow release nutrients. I was also feeding the shrimp so that must have added nutrients to the system as well. I didn't observe any nutrient deficiencies as far as I could tell. Growth was pretty good (from my experience) so I suppose the natural CO2 was sufficient.

As I said, I loved the looks of the aquavase but got tired of topping off all the evapration and the associated hardness accumulation (I was using tap water for top-offs).


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## Plant Crazy (Apr 12, 2003)

Much thanks for the information! I like the Red Sea moon glow tank, however I wish that it came with a full-spectrum bulb to begin with. I'm still trying to look for that 'perfect' glass cube, but haven't had any luck at Pier1 imports or Winner's yet. I was thinking of going with a clamp on fluorescent light (like the one supplied with the Red Sea tank), although I may end up going the easy (but less aesthetically pleasing) route with a conventional goose neck desk lamp. 

Thanks again for posting your tank and pics; they were very inspiring.


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

I'm glad it helped - I'm always looking for this kind of information myself, so I thought if anyone was like me, they'd appreciate the info.

I agree it's hard to find the perfect product. The Moon Glow is a pretty good solution since a new bulb is only a few bucks. (I got some at lightbulbsdirect.com).

I noticed JBJ just put out a new product, a little larger and made of glass. You'd still want to replace the bulb though.


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## Plant Crazy (Apr 12, 2003)

Thanks for the info. The JBJ pico (3gallon) looks like a gem... they have a 6 gallon cube which is also very nice. Alas, I only have the space for about 1 to 1.5 gallon max, since this will be sitting on my kitchen counter (which incidentally is already cluttered with other kitchen gadgets).


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## Miss Fishy (May 13, 2006)

What a lovely little tank! I really like the effect created by having the larger plants in the foreground. It makes you wonder just what is behind them. 

What are the dimensions of the tank? How many guppies are in the tank now? 

From Alex.


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Thanks for the compliments!



> I really like the effect created by having the larger plants in the foreground. It makes you wonder just what is behind them.


Well, that's one way to put it







. Actually I didn't do any real aquascaping... I was more interested in just seeing what would grow well in the setup. To be honest, my previous attempts (pre-Walstad) were utter failures and I was not counting on the tanks doing so well here. This gives me a lot of confidence for next time....



> What are the dimensions of the tank? How many guppies are in the tank now?


It's a standard all-glass 2.5 gallon - 12"x6"deepx8"high. Three guppies that are actually hybrids of and endlers male and a guppy female. They're kind of in between in size, but they might still be growing too. There are also 6 shrimp (various cherry shrimp sized). And dozens of pond and malaysian trumpet snails. I would have thought this would be way too much bioload, but apparently not. Everyone looks great in there and the water parameters are great - zero ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Just a little bit of algae, not a major nuisance.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Very nice! You must be pleased (I would).


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Wow, I just caught this thread. That's a very pretty looking nano you have there. You've given me some ideas for my nano I have sitting in a box underneath my bed.









So you do no waterchanges, no heater, and no ferts. Just light and food for fish and shrimp. Right?

Oh so endlers and cherries get along fine it seems. Very interesting. I might have to get my hands on some endlers.









Great Looking tank! Look forward to your updates!

-John N.


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Thanks for all the complements











> Oh so endlers and cherries get along fine it seems.


I think so... Like I said, some shrimp were dying off for some unknown reason. I can't rule out the guppies... but then again I saw a pretty funny scene a couple days ago. One of the adult shrimp walked into a group of guppies and grabbed a sinking pellet from under their noses and scuttled away with it. The guppies tried to follow, but he was too resilient. They didn't peck at him or anything, just tried to follow the food all around the bottom of the tank wherever he went. Pretty comical.



> So you do no waterchanges, no heater, and no ferts. Just light and food for fish and shrimp. Right?


Exactly. No filter or water movement either.

I'm not advocating against water changes (in fact I should probably be doing them a little more frequently). I'm simply trying to corroborate the "low-tech" philosophy that says that an ecologically balanced tank requires much less maintenance than a "hi-tech" tank. A system with natural stability should require less user intervention and external control. This is just one data point to support that theory.


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## Scarlett (Aug 20, 2005)

I like your tanks, thanks for sharing!


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Ah. You've given me ideas for my nano. Maybe I'll try the low-no techy approach. I just love inspiration. Keep the updates coming!

-John N.


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Whew! Took all day yesterday to break this tank down and re-scape it. Took two hours just to pull out all the plants and untangle them. The vallisneria gigantea had sent roots throughout the entire tank - when I tried to pull it up the entire substrate came with it! The one Echinodorus 'Rubin' had also put a ton of roots into the substrate. There was almost more biomass in the substrate than in the water column. Just goes to show - you can prune leaves but there's no easy way to prune roots!

The crypts were really growing well and made numerous offsets. Some dwarf hairgrass that I mostly removed earlier was still hanging on, and I liked that it was only 1.5" tall. So I've included it in the new scape. I had some stray java moss in there for the past year which was literally tangled around everything. Took a long time to untangle the mess of roots and java moss.

It was clear to me that the vallisneria gigantea and the echinodorus were just too big for such a tiny tank, so I didn't include them in the new scape. Instead, I have added rotala rotundifolia and bacopa monnieri. I've had bad luck with bacopa in the past, but I'm hoping the soil substrate and good lighting will change that.


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

So here it is now....









Keep in mind the stem plants, hairgrass, and java moss need to grow in to make this look the way I've envisioned.

Plants:
- bacopa monnieri
- cryptocoryne walkeri var. 'lutea'
- cryptocoryne willisi var. 'lucens'
- eleocharis parvula
- rotala rotundifolia
- vallisneria spiralis
- vesicularia dubyana

Livestock:
- 3 Endler's/guppy hybrids
- 2 red cherry shrimp
- 2 tiger shrimp
- 1 bumblebee shrimp
- 1 blue rainbow shrimp
- many malaysian trumpet and pond snails

Equipment:
- Coralife Mini Freshwater Aqualight
- 9W 6500K CF
- 9W 5000K CF
- Onyx sand/peat
- no heater (temp stays between 72-75 F)
- no filter/powerhead/pump

We'll see how this goes. I'll try to post pics once every month or two. Enjoy!


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## Miss Fishy (May 13, 2006)

I like it a lot! I can't wait to watch it filling in. I really like the Crypts in this tank, and I think they go perfectly with the Hairgrass. 

Just out of interest, why did you decide to redo the tank? Was it just to rescape, or was there another reason? 

From Alex.


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## Jane of Upton (Jul 28, 2005)

thanks for the updates!

Alex beat me to the question...... why did you re-do it? 

It looks like it will be very pretty when grown in!
-Jane

PS - where around Boston are you getting your shrimp?


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Thanks a lot









I redid it because it wasn't up to my wife's aesthetics







. I tried to explain that a healthy ecosystem IS beautiful but somehow the point was lost.

In all fairness, I had always intended to rescape the tank. The initial planting was used just to see what plants worked well and to see for myself how the natural approach worked out - put Walstad's book into practice. After seeing the very nice growth and health over the past year, and with the doldrums of winter setting in, this was the perfect time to redo it.

Jane, I got all my shrimp at Skipton's. I had to ask if they had shrimp the last few times because they're easy to miss when your eyes start gravitating towards their discus and cichlids....


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## Plant Crazy (Apr 12, 2003)

Looks great! Love the piece of driftwood in the centre. Are you using Flourish Excel or DIY yeast CO2 on this tank?


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Thanks









I'm not adding CO2 at the moment. The tank was doing very well for the past year without it. Plus it's hard to regulate DIY CO2 for such a small tank.

Actually, I did buy some Excel but I plan on doing some bottle experiments with it first before considering it for the display tank. Lots of people seem to use it, but I'd like to see some hard evidence that it's helpful for plant growth. Maybe in a few weeks I'll get an experiment going - if I can find some room in the apartment for it







.


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Just an update - two weeks later. Not much different, but the hairgrass is starting to send out runners and the java moss is getting all sorts of new growth. I think the rotala has also grown a bit. Really pleased so far, we'll see how it goes...

The fish and shrimp look happier than ever.


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## Miss Fishy (May 13, 2006)

It's looking really lovely! The moss looks so nice the way it is cascading over the driftwood. 

From Alex.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Very nice tank! It looks like a winner-- on all counts.


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## imported_Winzzy (Jun 25, 2003)

I just got my 20 up and runnin and now I have o convince my wife o let me have a nano as well... This is going to get worse and worse isn't it...


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Hah! Yeah it's such an addictive drug!!









It has taken all my self control to not go out and buy more tanks


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by Winzzy:
> I just got my 20 up and runnin and now I have o convince my wife o let me have a nano as well... This is going to get worse and worse isn't it...


Well, from your wife's point of view, yes it's going to get worse... from your point of view, it's gonna get a whole lot better!

Littleguy: Your tank is awesome! It's totally an inspiration! I'm so going to set up nano tanks. Right now I have three 2.5 gal tanks w/ bettas and a single java fern. I may have missed this in the thread, but what light fixture are you using for this tank? What's the brand and where did you get it? Could you post a picture of it?

Setting up my tanks will probably have to wait until after the wedding (all extra money goes into the wedding fund) but when I set 'em up, I can only hope they look as good as yours!

-ricardo


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Thanks so much!







I myself have taken inspiration from many folks on this forum! My dream is to have tanks with aesthetics approaching that of Takashi Amano, but with the natural stability, low maintenance, and ecological philosophies of Ms. Walstad.

The light is a Coralife mini freshwater aqualight, available all over the web. I find it is very attractive. I swapped one of the bulbs for a 5000K bulb, just to see what happens (plus they can be found for less $$).

I made my own tank cover from acrylic - the light sits directly on top. Added some handles from Home Depot. I'll post some pics soon hopefully.

18 watts is a lot of light for a tank this size. I notice the water does heat up a fair bit in the day due to the light sitting about an inch above the water surface (but protected by the cover of course). If you lived in hot weather (i.e. room temp above 75-80 degrees) this might be a small problem. but my room temp is below 73 most days and I see no ill effects of the diurnal heating cycles. I suppose you can always take out a bulb if you're getting too much heat/light.

I wish I had three 2.5 gallon tanks laying around to set up!


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

I am moving this to a new thread - so it just deals with the new aquascape.

Feel free to add comments there!
http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/...6048124/m/3391063802


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