# [Wet Thumb Forum]-liquid supliments



## pahorne (Jun 9, 2003)

i am just restarting my tank 
i would like to here from anyone about liquid sups which are the best if bought or do you mix your own what do you use
thanx


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## pahorne (Jun 9, 2003)

i am just restarting my tank 
i would like to here from anyone about liquid sups which are the best if bought or do you mix your own what do you use
thanx


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Most people here mix their own fertilizers. If they buy commercial stuff they use something like the Seachem line. Since you are in the UK you might want to look at the Dupla stuff and Tropica Master Grow.

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## pahorne (Jun 9, 2003)

so if im looking to mix my own what would be a goog base to start with


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Well you would need a trace mineral mix, a source of nitrate, most commonly potassium nitrate. You might need a phosphorus source. And if you want you can get something to add potassium. I can tell you what most of us here are using.

Trace = Plantex CSM
Nitrate = KNO3
Potassium = K2SO4 or KCL
Phosphates = Fleet enema or KH2PO4

And note that we don't really "mix" them we add them separately as needed.
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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> And note that we don't really "mix" them we add them separately as needed.


Hi Rex, can you elaborate on the mixing issue? Any reason why one should not mix any of these chemicals or traces together? I'm currently mixing mine after having figured out the "average" dose of each element and use the mixed solution in an automatic doser. Does doing this degrade or change any of the individual elements?

Thanks!
Giancarlo Podio


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

The reason I don't mix them is that the plants don't seem to be very consistent in their uptake of any one item over any amount of time. One week I can't keep the nitrate levels up and the next week they never change. Same for phosphates and all the rest.

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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Giancarlo Podio,

Somebody here with a chemistry background should probably help you out, but I don't think it's a good idea to mix ALL chemicals together... it's a different story when they are in the tank in ppm levels but mixing them in a strong solution could cause reactions.....

One I have seen is when mixing CaNO3 with K2SO4 in a small container the Ca will precipitate or fall out of the solution, the potassium reacts with the calcium I think!

There is probably some reason, as no one make a all in one fert.!

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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

> There is probably some reason, as no one make a all in one fert.!
> 
> 
> > I know I can mix all the Flourish liquids together, this is what Greg from Seachem told me. The reason why they don't make an all in one fert is probably more so because different tanks require different amounts of each individual element. An all in one product would not cater for different setups and requirements. Now that my Flourish products are running dry I am ready to start mixing my own ferts so this is going to be an important thing to figure out for me. I'll be using KNO3 and K2SO4, hopefully the absence of calcium might allow me to mix the two. I guess I can try them to see if I can see any visual precipitation, however I don't know enough about chemistry to know if there are any other signs of undesired reactions between the different elements, including the trace mix.
> ...


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## ned13b (Mar 27, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by ekim:
> Giancarlo Podio,
> ...


When you add the compunds to a solution they break apart and form anions (K+, Cl-, PO4-3). They should all stay like that unless you add two that will bond and form a precipitate. Now, if you want to check out which ones will form precipitates, one must look at the trusty highschool data booklet. Mine has a "Solubility of some common ionic compounds in water at 298.15K"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Solubility less than 0.1mol/L

NH4+.....................None
ClO3- , NO3- , ClO4-.....None
CH3COO-..................Ag+ , Hg+
Cl- , Br-, I-............Ag+ , Pb+2 , Hg+ , Cu+ , Ti+
SO4-2....................Ca+2 , Sr+2, Ba+2, Ra+2, Pb+2, Ag+
S2-......................most except Group IA & IIA, NH4+
OH-......................most except group IA , NH4+ , Sr+2 , Ba+2 , Ti+
PO4-3 , SO3-2 , CO3-2....most except Group IA , NH4+
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

I wish I knew what all that means









So out of the items commonly used:

KNO3
K2SO4
KPO4
MgSO4
Chelated Trace Mix (7% Fe, 1.3% B, 2% Mn, 0.06% Mo, 0.4% Zn, 0.1% Cu, EDTA, DTPA)

How would you figure out which ones can and can not be mixed?

Rex: I found the same thing however after about 6 months of testing and dosing and keeping logs I found that the monthly average was rather consistent, unless I pruned the plants which slowed things down. I guess I like to be lazy when I can so I opted for the average and bought a doser to add the mix daily. So far it has worked out very well, the plants are doing better than before, I think mostly because I was not 100% consistent about adding the fertilizers when needed. Some days I see a lot of pearling and others a little less but I like the work it's saving me so it was a good compromise. Been using it for about 3 months now, only wish it could hold more mix, that way I could be even more lazy









Thanks for the info
Giancarlo Podio


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## pahorne (Jun 9, 2003)

ok i think i will get some premixed liguid fert to start with 
but as i learn more it look as if i will have to mix my own to the needs of my my tank
ok kn03,k2s04,kp04,mgs04 what are they what do they all do and were can i get them,ive been to my local fish shop ask them about the above and they looked at me blankly


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

99.99% of local fish stores are not going to carry the bulk chemicals. There is a thread here about where to find KNO3 in the UK. K2SO4 can be found at many garden centers. A PO4 source is not hard to come by. And MgSO4 is Epsom salts, available in grocery stores here in the US.

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## Anthon (Feb 26, 2004)

Hello

I'm in France and i don't manage to find any pure PO4 source (KH2PO4 for exemple), i only find mixs.
Where do you buy KH2PO4 ?
Is Fleet enema = Na3PO4 ?
Doesn't it put too many Na+ in water ?
What are the other common source for PO4 ?

Thanks for all your answers and sorry for my bad english


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Fleet Enema is a great PO4 source. And you won't be using enough to worry about the Na+. At least if you are doing any type of regular water changes. Also many pH buffers (acid buffers) are phosphoric acid. And they will work also.

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## pahorne (Jun 9, 2003)

thank for your help and advice thegood news is ive just found the dulpa web sight and a surplier im just waiting to here back from them i thought i might give dupla 24 a go and see what results i get from that before i go mixing my own and killing every thing i sight


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## superjohnny (Jul 31, 2004)

How do you know how much of each to use?

I saw KNO3 and K2S04 at my LFS today... wish I'd have bought some.

Fish are the things that live with my plants.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Well you can go here to figure it out. And no need to buy it at TWS. I have the same thing cheaper.

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## superjohnny (Jul 31, 2004)

are there test kits that measure potassium sulfate (K2S04), potassium nitrate(KN03), potassium chloride (KCI), magnesium sulfate (MgS04+7H20) and kh2po4?

That's a lot of random letters & numbers to me. Ignorance sucks









Fish are the things that live with my plants.


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## Anthon (Feb 26, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> are there test kits that measure potassium sulfate (K2S04), potassium nitrate(KN03), potassium chloride (KCI), magnesium sulfate (MgS04+7H20) and kh2po4?


When you put K2SO4 in your water you obtain Potassium (K+) and Sulfate (SO4--). 
There is no test for sulfate. I think one test for potassium exists in the US but not in France (Lamotte test if i am right). Don't care about testing it.

When you add KNO3 you obtain potassium (K+) and Nitrate (NO3-).
Many nitrate tests are available.

With KCl you obtain K+ and Cl-. I think Cl- test are available but i'm not sure. I won't care about it too.

With MgSO4 + 7H2O you add Mg++ (value include in your GH), SO4-- and H2O which is water.

With KH2PO4 you add K+, H+ (tested with pH; don't care about it) and PO4 3- which is phosphat (many test available).

I'm not sure it's a good idea to use those macro if you don't understand anything about chemicals.
Maybe you should use commercial fertiliser as Flourish instead.
____________________________________
Sorry for my bad english ...


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

I would agree with Anthony here. If you don't have a basic grasp of chemistry and a handle on how to fertilize a tank you really should stick with commercial stuff and leave the bulk fertilizers alone.

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## superjohnny (Jul 31, 2004)

:thumbsup: Sounds good to me... at least until I learn a bit more.

So basically you dose these and control them with water changes and monitoring PH, KH & nitrate?

I am currently using about 2-3 ml of Flourish added weekly after water changes. I don't get much pearling if any out of my plants. I am using 2 DIY bottles of yeast/sugar-water and 96watts of 8,800k PCF lighting over a 45g (36"Lx12"Wx24"H) tank. Most of my plants struggle at the lower one third of my tank and boom when they get to the top two thirds (because of light penetration assumidly).

I have been getting a thin layer of green algae on the glass that needs to be cleaned off weekly. Is this a by-product of over-fertilization?

I apologize if I have hijacked this thread, that was not my intention at all. It's hard to stay on the topic of fertilization when CO2, lighting & fertilization are so closely related. It's a tough balancing act.

Thank you for the explanation though guys, that's really nice of you to share the knowledge. Hats off to you









---------------------------------------------
Fish are the things that live with my plants.


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