# I wish I would have found this sooner :(



## Tominizer (May 13, 2009)

Dang.............. about a month ago I finished setting up the substrate in a 120 gallon tank and filled with water to allow it to cycle for a planted tank. I was told I need to let the ammonia cycle complete itself BEFORE planting the tank out.

I'm changing over to try something new. I'm coming from many successful years of African Cyclids (rocks and sand), including some breeding (about 100 fry right now I'm still playing with to grow out). However, this El Natural process dovetails in with how I personnally feel a tank should be designed and maintained but unfortunately I never found about this before walking through the door and stepping into it. 

Anyways, there's no plants in my tank.......... just some red eye tetras, lava rock, a nice piece of driftwood and the substrate.......... fine sand bottom with some dark brown commercial seachem substrate that the name is escaping me right now ontop of the sand. Soooo, I many be able to step backwards still and do this right. Need to also get my hands on this book by Diana Walstad. 

After reading a lot of the threads in this section, I'm pretty much sold........... thinking I'm going to move all the water out into other smaller tanks with the tetras............. scoop up the gravel substrate and walk down the path of putting in a layer of Miracle Grow Organic Choice potting soil ontop of the sand.......... AFTER wetting it and letting it sit. Then layer the seachem substrate back ontop as the gravel substrate soil cap. I had originally put down the sand because I was going to heat the substrate from under the tank (adjustable temp heating blanket). The sand was there to migrate the heat (?!?!) into the substrate. Nto sure if I'm still going to do this.

Oh, forgot that the seachem substrate is mixed in with a bag of outdoor pond soil (I know that's not what it's called but I'm calling it that for now !!). Has anyone played with that instead of the above noted potting soil ? Thoughts ???

The tank also has a 200 watt heater and Enheim cannister filtration, about 160 watts of lighting (1.3 watts per gallon) and a powerhead. I also have a second Enheim cannister filter that I was going to build up for peat filtration to soften the water as our water is really hard here.


So............ truth is a still have a lot to learn about planted tanks, soft water, etc. I'm a total rookie. But one big lesson I'm bringing with me from the cichlids is that I found the less I touched and messed with, the happier things were and I had a lot of success with that formula.


Anyways, any thoughts on me going back a few steps and rebuilding ?


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## surpera1 (Feb 18, 2009)

take the tank down - add 1 inch potting soil - cover with 1 inch gravel - plant heavily - eheim filter - 2WPG at least - DIY co2 - and EI dosing if you really want some action going on in there - soil will take 2 or more months to settle down and get good


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## Tominizer (May 13, 2009)

Bought Diana's book this afternoon on Amazon.ca........... looking forward to it arriving. Was not available in the libraries here in Toronto. In the meantime, off to source the Miracle Grow potting soil.

Some more information to add. My tank is built into the wall (flush-mounted) in the basement at the bottom of the staircase.......... which is open to the main floor. But the point is there is NOT much natural light getting to that location. And the Minister of Finance and Tourism will not allow another tank in the house, never mind on the main floor............ I have six tanks on the go 4x 30 gallon and 2x 120 gallon with the last two built into the walls in the basement and all this is housed in the furnace room. That doesn't include the emergency tanks .......... all this from the Cichlids experience. Anyway, I don't believe I'm going to be able to get the full El Natural thing happening in not having the natural light source.............. but I'm going to try and see how far I can go with it. Once the book arrives........ the learning begins.


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## Tominizer (May 13, 2009)

.............can't find Miracle Gro Organic Choice potting soil here in Toronto. All there seems to be is the Miracle Gro organic choice garden soil.............. thoughts ?!?!?!?


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## JeffyFunk (Apr 6, 2006)

From what I was able to tell about the product on the web from the Scotts' website (the parent company for Miracle Gro) and from other websites that review the product, I'd see if you can find something else first. 

This product lists as ingredients: Compost, Sphagnum peat moss & manure. 

The Organic Choice potting soil lists as ingredients: Sphagnum peat moss & composted pine bark fines. 

Really, all you want is just TOP SOIL in a bag. There's really no need to have to use Miracle Gro or any other particular brand. Personally, I'd just make sure to stay away from soils or potting mixes that have pertlite or vermiculite in them (since these particles will just float in your aquarium ... very annoying). 

Regardless of what brand of soil or potting mix you use, the first month or so is always going to require extra diligence as the aquarium ecology / parameters establish themselves. Frequent water changes aren't uncommon as a tank is establishing itself.


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

Hey Tom,

I applaud your getting on the El Natural band wagon!

But like Jeffy said, you really don't want a soil layer with THAT much organic matter in it! Lots of organic matter means LOTs of breaking down of that organic matter during the first several months, and that means nutrients getting into the water column which will be available to ALGAE! We want a hospitable substrate for root growth, and minerals (micro nutrients)to be available to the plants. The macro nutrients will largely come from the fish and other fauna. The mention of "manure" being an ingredient in that Miracle Gro mix really gives me pause. Especially if it has not been composted first (which breaks down some of the raw organics into their mineral components) I strongly second the idea that this is not the best choice for your soil layer. Seriously, this is a case where less is more. I've had the best luck with "cheapo" topsoils. The major purpose is to give support (both physical and nutritive) to the roots. Honestly, when I started messing with things (like putting a very thin layer - a dusting really - of aged/composted manure into my soil layer) I got weird algae outbreaks and grew some pretty impressive slime algaes (bacterial blooms). When I returned to the basics, after the first several weeks of initial break-in, the tank stabilized and became a breeze to take care of - just set the lights on timers, feed the fish and top off the water. 

Think of it this way - a container plant may need a lot of supplementation packed into its small container, because other than air and water, it may not get anything else (unless you "dose" with fertilizer). In the aquarium, the additional fish food, processed through the fish, provide constant fertilizer. And the bacteria which break down that fish excrement are everywhere. Snails will eat algae and decaying plant leaves, releasing compounds the plants can use. Microorganisms in all the nooks and crannies of the soil and gravel will help to make these compounds available for the plants to utilize. Just as the El Natural method gets away from the pushing of a system to its peak of productivity, you really don't WANT all of those nutrients to be provided right away. So.... this is one of those rather counter-intuitive situations where more is not necessarily better.

You've got a lot of ideas going on with this. Also, peat-based soils will push your water parameters towards a low (acidic) pH. That adds another wild card into the mix.

Artificial lighting will work. It has for me, just be sure your lights are not too strong at the get-go (otherwise its just encouraging the algae) and you give the plants a long enough photoperiod (mine are all on timers set for 12 hours). I'm a bit dubious about the heating blanket under the glass bottom of the aquarium - have you done this before? I don't think aquarium glass is tempered, so can it take this kind of heat transfer? 

Take a deep breath, read the book, and for your first setup at least, just do the basics and keep it simple. Because guess what? They WORK!

Then, once your very simple tank is over the initial settling in, and is chugging along looking really nice with a remarkable lack of effort... well, THEN, if the lack of tinkering is driving you nuts (because El Natural tanks respond BEST when their caretakers sit on their hands unless something wacky is going on) you can THEN go pushing the parameters around and experiment. 

Have Fun!
-Jane


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## Tominizer (May 13, 2009)

Thanks Jane for that awesome reply. I agree with what you have said ........... even though "the" book has not arrived yet. It makes sense. And I especially agree with the hands off part.

Ok, so where am I now ?!??! I ended up gutting out the tank completely and started again........after re-reading some of the posts here on how to start an El-Natural. I started by putting some of that egg crate light grill stuff at the front of the tank and also towards the back corners where I used lava stone to build up some elevation. I secured the stone with Seachem Flourite substrate. Then on the bottom of the tank and over the stone, 1" of organic pond soil substrate that they use in outdoor koi ponds, etc. I planted a bunch of stuff, and then added more Seachem Flourite substrate as the cap over the soil...................... added water.............. turned on the lights for 10 hours stints on the timer, turned on the heater................ popped in the thermometer ......... added the power head ............. and lastly turned on the Enheim filter cannister to help clear up the water ...................... and now I sit and wait to see what will happen. If I remember, I will try and post some pictures of this............. plants wise, there's some anubias nana in the middle, java moss at the front and down the centre and two taller plant types in the back corners and towards the middle to give some height. There's also two lava stone caves........ or basically lavastone that had good size holes that have now become caves.


Yes, and the sand layer is gone................ and no under pad heating either. Eventually the cannister filter I think will go too..............once things stabilize and clear up. The water actually is pretty clear outside of the tanin (sp??) coming off the piece of driftwood.



Oh, and one last thing. I haven't added any fish load yet.............. although there' s about 20 tetras and two redtail sharks swimming about in an adjacent tank. But I'm thinking this weekend of adding them. But at 120 gallons, I'm assuming this tank will require A LOT more fish to balance things out.


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## surpera1 (Feb 18, 2009)

i dont have the patience for El nat myself - i like high light , ferts and especially c02


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I'm glad that you ordered my book. Now, I'd slow down and read it. El Natural is much more than having a soil underlayer. 

A few quick comments based on what you wrote earlier:

I would not worry about softening the water unless it has a GH >20. Hardwater is nutrient-rich water and good for many aquarium plants.

You need to have a daylength of at least 12 hr for aquarium plants. Ten hours is not enough (unless you're doing a midday "siesta"). 

You need to have a wide variety of plants, including fast-growers. Anubias and Java Moss are not fast-growers. 

You seem to have put more emphasis on canister filters than plants. In an NPT, the plants-- not the filter-- remove waste products like ammonia and CO2, provide oxygen, compete with algae, etc. 

I'm not a big fan of driftwood. It may rot in the tank and cause all kinds of problems.


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## Tominizer (May 13, 2009)

Yes......... true. I need to learn a lot and will likely learn the hard way with some of it. The book just shipped out yesterday so I'll have to wait a bit longer to get educated.

Yes, I have to do a bit more water testing......... it's coming this weekend.

I've reset the timer for 14 hours.

Looking for more plants today actually as the tank needs MORE.................but my complete list of plantings to date is not posted yet.

The cannister filter is just in there to get things going and keep the water circulating......... once things start to stabilize it will come out............


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## Tominizer (May 13, 2009)

Book arrived yesterday. Hopefully will have time to dig into it tonite ..........and start learning about what I don't know.


There's 20 tetras (red eye and silver tip) with two red tail sharks in the tank now. They all seem fairly content. Into another tank I have about 30 small neon tetras that will go in shortly as well. Wasn't really planning on Tetras but they caught my eye at Big Al's............. and the price was right. I'm going to try and remember to take a picture of the tank .......... and post a list of the plants as well. 

So far everything has gone fairly calmly. But for some reason I have this nagging voice in the back of my head and I'm expecting some tank *drama* as I've never planted out a tank before............... most of my other tanks I don't check at all or hardly........... but this one is all new for me and I'm around it like a kid with a new toy............ with sticky dirty fingers.......... which can be bad from my experience.


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

Hey Tom,

so are the newly acquired tetras being quarantined before you put them in with your "known" fish in the big tank (*fingers crossed the answer is Yes*)?

I have NEVER regretted quarantining fish, but I have regretted NOT quarantining them. In a planted tank, especially an NPT, some folks feel the bacteria load and other biological activity that is going on goes a long way to squelch undesirable things like Ich. I agree. I've had fish die of what I believe is old age, rather than outbreaks of disease. I used to have a hard time restraining my "collectoritis" with fish, but since I've gotten very strict about NOT allowing anything into my established tanks without two weeks (or more) of quarantine, I've had very long lived fish! Two months ago I lost the last of my red line rasboras - not the big "shark" ones, but the more common ones with the copper colored lateral line). They were the first fish I got when setting up the tank in my current location - back in January of 2004. I believe more than 5 years for one of those fish is pretty good! BUT.... I lost all the fish in a different tank (smaller, 10 g.) when I added some impulse-purchase neons without quarantining first. Something broke out (possibly fish TB?) and just wiped out everyone - including my long-time inhabitants who had been hale and hearty until then. And THAT was distressing!

Also, in the event of an outbreak, most of the "fish disease medications" out there will wreak havoc with your other biological systems going on - the beneficial bacterial population, any invertebrates you may have, etc. Bacteria play a large part in the balance of an NPT, so if there is any way to avoid having to medicate (i.e., finding out about illnesses beforehand through using quarantine) it is FAR easier in the long run. 

And a final reason to quarantine before adding inhabitants to a planted tank; in the event you need to net anybody out, it is FAR more difficult in a planted tank! Especially if the plants are not yet fully rooted in, the swish of a net can send all your carefully planted greenery flying, usually bringing up bits of the soil layer with them. 

Once again that lovely adage about "measure twice, cut once" comes up. I always figure once something goes into my NPT, its going to live out its life in there. So... to paraphrase, Scrutinize Twice, Add Once!

Sounds like you're doing well with this! Water changes can reduce the tannins from the driftwood - it should settle down within a few weeks.

-Jane


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## Tominizer (May 13, 2009)

Well............. it's kinda yes !!! All the fish in the kinda NPT are new and from Big Al's........... and were mainly purchased based on looks and moreso the cheapo price. So their's no personal attachment to any old friends there.............yet. Why I say *kinda* yes is because they are also in their own tank to fatten them up a bit as they are really small......... and may get picked on by the others...........AND to see how they do......so yes, quarantined!!! They will be there for at least two weeks or so............... and then off they go assuming nothing strange happens in my *kinda* NPT.

In a tank not too far away I have a fleet of young African cichlid's (about 100 or so) all of the same type that are about 1.5" and growing fast........... I think they all got jealous of the new young Tetra ones that I'm sharing my time with now !!! :wacko:


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## Tominizer (May 13, 2009)

Things seem to be holding on in my new tank.................. but my gut/eyes tell me it's just barely. And I'm seeing signs of Algae (brown and green) although only very slightly. I think I don't have enough light and thus the brown algae (?!). I took some pictures and will try and post them shortly. I still don't think I have enough plant material in the tank to make this work............ and possibly a few of the plants are wrong given my lighting levels.

Of note, the 30 neon tetras seem to be doing fine in a seperate tank with no adverse issues so far............quarantine is still in effect. I pulled out the Java moss from the main tank and a few scraps of hornswort that were floating around and tossed them in the 30G with the neons and the stuff seems to be doing nicely !! Very minimal lighting, no substrate and just a heater with a bubble foam filter. 

Also added 7 cherry shrimp but after a few days, never saw them again............... actually seems like after the first hour...................... gone never to be seen again. 

Anyways, not really doing much to the tank................ been busy and it's just been doing it's thing...... as I leave it completely alone and continue to dive through Diana's book. I'm about half way through, although I've jumped ahead few times to read up on a few things. Some of the chemistry/biology is over my head right now and I may come back to it later ...........when I feel the need to truly try to understand more of the finer details of mother nature.


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## Tominizer (May 13, 2009)

Last night............. saw one of the shrimp grazing around.......... WOOT !! 

Also a snail crawling up the front glass..............that was being madly dive-bombed by the tetras who had taken great interest in slimey. Not sure where the snail came from.......... but he's now a resident in the tank.

Looks as if some of that brown algae is on some of the plant foliage.............. going to watch this closely.


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

Hmmm,

the "brown algae" might be a diatom outbreak - I tend to get these with fresh setups, too. Otocinclus love this stuff, and I think the snail should find it very tasty, too!

See this link on the APC Algaefinder:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algaefinder.php?do=view&id=10

Also, adding more Hornwort in the new setup may help - read up on the alleopathy!

Sounds like its plugging along, and that's neat to see the shrimp re-emerge. They do like to disappear until they find their bearings!

Its great to see updates on this!
-Jane


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## Tominizer (May 13, 2009)

I have this addiction to dropping by Big Al's Aquarium Services lookin' for bargins. Last night, after surfing the forums on algae (specifically brown) and after seeing what Jane posted above, I decided I wanted some Otto's....... (or is it Oto's?)...........anyways, added four Otto's last night. They've been feasting on the glass, rocks, plants......... they seem quite content but I'll keep an eye on them. Otto's should be fairly plump-ish as I understand if they are healthy (?!?!) and this crop looked a little skinny which I'm assuming is due to the way these shops keep their tanks.............. clean and display-able for attracting buyers. But if their behavior continues like it was when I first droppped them in, they should be happy and fat in no time. 

Similar thing happened with my two red tail sharks. They were small and very pale grey when acquired but now have a vibrant deep black color with a very red tail........... an indication as I understand it that they are content and happy.

The Neon tetras, all 30 of them, were dumped in the main tank. I know it's only been a week of quarantine, but they all look fine................ so I tossed them in. The silver tips chased after them but got all confused because they couldn't decide on which on to go after considering the numbers. Then things all settled out.

Why I dumped the Neon's in is back to my first paragraph at the top........... the sickness............. I bought 20 more tetras and wanted them quarantined so the quarantine tank needed to be emptied. Neon Diamond Tetras.......... 5 for $5, so I scooped 20. Anyways, I had a brain fart............. the kind you have when you are trying to do too many things at once............. brought them home and forgot to leave the bag sitting in the top of the tank water to equalize the water temps slowly................... just poured them out over the sink into the net and tossed them into the tank.............:sorry: Anyways, by the end of the evening, there was 1 struggling tetra and it wasn't going to make the night................so I lost one. This morning I had a peek and everyone was still sleeping so I'll check tonite to see what's happening. Anyways, was not happy about my behaviour.......... as I'm pretty sensitive about loosing fish........... it's a responsibility I don't take lightly.


Ok, sorry about all the rambling................ one more thing I acquired (!!). I finally got some floating plants as the store finally had some in. But for the life of me, I can't remember what they are. I have it written down at home. Very small round leaves and apparently the stuff spreads like mad. I have a handful now at one end of the tank. I think I'm going to make a styrofoam barrier across the top of the tank to contain the plant to one end only as it casts quite the shadow when I saw it in the tank at Big Al's. But it's cool stuff............. looking up at it in the tank.............. looks like upside down grass the way the roots hang!!!

Oh, and I have pictures.......... just need to get them posted.................. hopefully before then end of the week.


edit: One last note............sorry........... my quarantine tank is made up of a bubble foam filter and a heater. Nothing else. Last week I decide that the Java moss in the main tank was looking off, so I tossed in on the barren quarantine tank to get it out of the way and whatever happens to it............. well, I didn't care at the time............... but now, the stuff looks to be growing like mad. There's also a piece of stray hornwort wrapped around the heater power cord and it's growing too................. all surprises to me........... in a good way.


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

*SIGH*..... Its collectoritis, Tom! There is no cure. But... with practice, one can keep it in remission *smile*.



Tominizer said:


> ....anyways, added four Otto's last night. They've been feasting on the glass, rocks, plants......... they seem quite content but I'll keep an eye on them. Otto's should be fairly plump-ish as I understand if they are healthy (?!?!) and this crop looked a little skinny which I'm assuming is due to the way these shops keep their tanks.......


Yes, you're right on the otos/ottos. I'm convinced most shops lose their otocinclus to starvation. There is one shop from which I'll buy otto's, because they know how to FEED them. Now and then its good to put some lightly blanched zuchinni in for them. I'll get a small organic one, and freeze some (pre-cooked) slices, since I don't want any pesticide residue in my tank.



> Similar thing happened with my two red tail sharks. They were small and very pale grey when acquired but now have a vibrant deep black color with a very red tail........... an indication as I understand it that they are content and happy.


Welcome to having happy fish!



> Anyways, by the end of the evening, there was 1 struggling tetra and it wasn't going to make the night................so I lost one. This morning I had a peek and everyone was still sleeping so I'll check tonite to see what's happening. Anyways, was not happy about my behaviour.......... as I'm pretty sensitive about loosing fish........... it's a responsibility I don't take lightly.


Eeek, well, we've all made mistakes. How big is the tank again? Sounds like you're approaching the maximum fishload.



> But it's cool stuff............. looking up at it in the tank.............. looks like upside down grass the way the roots hang!!!


Sounds like some sort of duckweed. Its a good nutrient sink, but will overshadow the plants very rapidly if you're not watching it.



> Last week I decide that the Java moss in the main tank was looking off, so I tossed in on the barren quarantine tank to get it out of the way and whatever happens to it............. well, I didn't care at the time............... but now, the stuff looks to be growing like mad. There's also a piece of stray hornwort wrapped around the heater power cord and it's growing too................. all surprises to me........... in a good way.


Neat! Sounds like the java moss was not getting a nutrient it needed, which it found in the Q tank. Probably some ammonia/nitrate/nitrite was needed.

Great to hear you having so much enjoyment out of your tanks!

*whispering* but now its time to sit on your hands for a bit, and just watch, LOL!
-Jane


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## Tominizer (May 13, 2009)

Regarding the Ottos, I herd the same thing about feeding them. There's a good web site on Otto's with good information for anyone wanting to keep them.

Otto's Web Page

Every year I plant a pretty big garden...........and my wife is Italian and so there's always a ton of zuchinnis available. Thinking about it, I think I have some left over frozen still as well............. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Jane, my tank is a 120 gallon. So as far as fish load goes, I have a lot of room. The tetras are really small as well................ and have not had a chance to grow out. I know that now I have to keep testing the water and watching the plants to ensure I can get that equilibrium established between fish load and the amount fo planting I have happening............. healthy thriving plants to be more correct !! But I think that's the end of buying for now....................... must ..............resist......:whoo:


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

I think someone is REALLY enjoying their tank!! Isn't it great! You seem to be headed in the right direction. Sorry about you 1 tetra, but we all do a dumb things once in a while. I got 2 rare plants a while back and took it out of the bag to put it in the tank. Got an emergency call away and forgot about it. When I finally remembered and came back they will all dried up.


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

Tominizer said:


> Jane, my tank is a 120 gallon. So as far as fish load goes, I have a lot of room. The tetras are really small as well................ and have not had a chance to grow out. I know that now I have to keep testing the water and watching the plants to ensure I can get that equilibrium established between fish load and the amount fo planting I have happening............. healthy thriving plants to be more correct !! But I think that's the end of buying for now....................... must ..............resist......:whoo:


Hubba, Hubba..... 120 gallons? This small fact somehow escaped me... yeah, you have PLENTY of room, LOL!

Besides... who am I kidding? .... didn't someone say Resistance is Futile? We can try, though.

This, from the woman who went to get some filter media and pick up some Praecox Rainbowfish this evening (to help eat up the undesired tubifex colony) and somehow came home with 4 new FW shrimp, as well! Hey! They weren't on the list!

And yeah... we all make gaffs. TexGal, I've done that too.... it only takes a moment to get distracted (%$#@*& phone!), and then you find yourself asking "what IS this shriveled up thing on the counter? ACK! Its my new aquarium plant!"

*sigh*

-Jane


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Yes, Tominizer, as Jane says resistance is futile! I find myself buying fish and keeping them for a year or so and then thinking I would like to see this one or that one. The last were the blue congos and red rainbows that went to live in my husbands tank. They were replaced with Madagascar rainbows. Now I'm eyeing the yellow congos in the tank and thinking, "Who do you want to go live with?". I'd love to find those red congos... 

FICKLE!!, that's all I can say!


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## Tominizer (May 13, 2009)

My weakness is walking through the store eyeballing all the tanks and then *WHAMMO*........... there's these tanks with cool fish and a big sign taped on them saying ........... "This Weeks SPECIAL". 

Back to my tetra carnage................... situation got a LOT worse in the quarantine tank. They did not all expire but I think either I really messed up or something was wrong with the tetras. Although I did not equalize the temps, they were not that far off during the transfer and the water was what the neons were swimming around in happily before I moved them to the big tank. Anyways, what is done is done............. but jeeese, I'm not happy about what happened 


On a happier note, I'm getting plant growth in the new main tank. It's taken a while but I'm speculating that things are starting to settle out now. As my tank is built into a wall and I have a room behind it just for the tank........... I've been able to watch some of the root growth through the rear glass for the plants at the very back of the tank where the substrate is built up. Kinda neat.


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## Tominizer (May 13, 2009)

Silvinia is what I have as a surface plant.............


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

Oh, yeah... its really neat to see the root growth in the substrate, pressing up all white and vigorous against the glass - excellent!

With tanks on wrought iron frames, I like to look underneath, and see the swirls of roots from specific plants. Using a flashlight, its really interesting. You can see that Bylxa has a very dense pattern of finer roots, crypts have larger, kind of snaking roots, and anything in the Echinodorus family hits the bottom of the tank within days, hungrily seeking out that nutritious soil. Very neat stuff!

and eeeek - Tetra "carnage"? Sounds like you've lost several of them now. Any visible signs of disease? I know its distressing, but that's why you have a quarantine tank! The Sticky thread posted here in El Natural about "Diana's Diseased Fish thread" may shed some light on your situation. 

I hope things improve in the fish department, but it sounds like your plants are doing well!
-Jane


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## Tominizer (May 13, 2009)

***UPDATE***


Sooooo, some of the plants are growing insanely. Fish all look to be happy. I've curbed my spending sprees at the store to *zip*............. and I'm basically ignoring the tank and letting it go on it's merry way and do it's thing. All I do is feed the fish once a day.


Appologies for negligent behaviour in still not getting up pictures. I have to get to that this week. Threads are useless without pictures. Anyways, will try to get something posted this week............ I I promise !!!


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## Tominizer (May 13, 2009)

Sorry, the pictures are not the best............... then again, I'm barely a photographer in the hobbiest sense. 




























These pictures are from fairly early on. Once again, this is at the bottom of the stairs in the basement............. it's an open to the main floor staircase but it only gets minimal light. The tank is a 120 gallon.

Currently status of what's in there:

Fish:

30 neon tetras
20 ember tetras
10 silver tip tetras
4 neon diamond tetras
9 red eye tetras
4 otto cats
7 cherry shrimp
2 redtail sharks

Plants:
salvinia
hornwort 
wisteria
anubias nana
corkscrew val
.....and one I can't remember now 

More pictures coming of it's current status........................... cause it looks different now.


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