# cherries and amanos



## jackh (Oct 9, 2007)

i just rescaped my 20g tank and i was gonna get 15 cherries in about a week, id like them to eventually start breeding. i was also thinking of gettin a couple amanos bc ive read they are more efficient algea eaters. the only thing ive read about compatability is that amanos are more aggressive and will take food away from cherries. besides this, will they get along? thanks


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## ponyrandy (Jan 13, 2007)

I have both cherries and amanos in a 10 gallon and have no problems.
Brian


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## jackh (Oct 9, 2007)

how many of each do you have? do your cherries breed?


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## DBL TAP (Apr 21, 2008)

I have the same in a 10 gallon. My Cherries are breeding like rabbits. I used to worry that the fry would get sucked up in the filter but now with so many, I can afford to lose a couple.


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## jackh (Oct 9, 2007)

do yall have more cherries than amanos in those tanks?


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## DBL TAP (Apr 21, 2008)

LOL - More Cherries now! I'm telling you once they're happy you better look for a place to sell them to.


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## overboard (Mar 11, 2008)

I have amanos and CRS together with fish (pygmy cories, featherfin rainbows, and honey gouramis) and the amanos are the boldest animals in the tank. However, they don't eat any faster, so after they bully their way to the biggest and best pieces of algae wafer, they carry them around while everyone else gets to eat the rest of the food. They do intimidate the cories a bit by jumping on them, but no real problems.


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## ponyrandy (Jan 13, 2007)

I started out with 6 amanos and apparently lost one so I now have 5. I then threw in about 8 cherries. And yes the cherries do breed, I now have a lot more than I started with. And yes they do get sucked up in the filter, I have an AC 20 and I have to take the media out and pour the shrimp back into the tank. I wish one of the filter manufacturers would come up with a shrimp proof filter. 
Brian


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## DBL TAP (Apr 21, 2008)

Hey Brian - I took an Aqua Clear Sponge and put it over the filter intake. For further protection I put a nylon (from a .99 Cent store) over it.

There are filters you can buy to put on the intake but they're kinda of pricey.


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## DBL TAP (Apr 21, 2008)

Here's one of the filters:

http://www.petsolutions.com/Filter-Max-Pre-Filter+I32501930+C23.aspx


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## ponyrandy (Jan 13, 2007)

Thanks DBL, that is just what I was looking for. I tried the nylon route but it clogged up way too quick. The AC sponge is a great idea too, but I think I will be ordering one of these tomorrow. 
Brian


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## DBL TAP (Apr 21, 2008)

ponyrandy said:


> Thanks DBL, that is just what I was looking for. I tried the nylon route but it clogged up way too quick. The AC sponge is a great idea too, but I think I will be ordering one of these tomorrow.
> Brian


Man, I wish I got a commission! LOL -- Glad to be of a help. My friend swears by those intakes.


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## dgphelps (Jan 1, 2008)

The only problem with the prefilters or panty hose etc, at least in my tank, is that they gradually fill up with detritus which impairs the water circulation. It's also a mess when you turn off your pump to clean it as everything dumps back into your tank. When I have something over my intake I typically have to clean it once every week or two or the water flow slows to a trickle.


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## DBL TAP (Apr 21, 2008)

dgphelps said:


> The only problem with the prefilters or panty hose etc, at least in my tank, is that they gradually fill up with detritus which impairs the water circulation. It's also a mess when you turn off your pump to clean it as everything dumps back into your tank. When I have something over my intake I typically have to clean it once every week or two or the water flow slows to a trickle.


Same here. What I do with my Aqua Clear is I leave the filter running, lift the tube and when the prefilter breaks the surface I scoop it with a white/fine net. Some pieces fall off but I usually get most of it.

Prefilters are a PITA but a necessity when you have shrimplets.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

DBL TAP said:


> Here's one of the filters:
> 
> http://www.petsolutions.com/Filter-Max-Pre-Filter+I32501930+C23.aspx


If you haven't ordered your pre-filter already, you may want to look at getting them from Ken's Fish. Ordering from Ken's should save you about $3 on each pre-filter.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

MatPat said:


> If you haven't ordered your pre-filter already, you may want to look at getting them from Ken's Fish. Ordering from Ken's should save you about $3 on each pre-filter.


Matt- what's the difference in the #1, #2, #3. Do they each have the same size tubing intake? If it's just sponge size, wouldn't it make sense to get the largest so that it will clog the least fast- or would the drag be too much on the pump? I have a 29 HOB and have been using little nylon bags. Wonderig if these would clog less fast?


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Tex Gal said:


> Matt- what's the difference in the #1, #2, #3. Do they each have the same size tubing intake? If it's just sponge size, wouldn't it make sense to get the largest so that it will clog the least fast- or would the drag be too much on the pump? I have a 29 HOB and have been using little nylon bags. Wondering if these would clog less fast?


I'm pretty sure they all have the same size tubing and adapters but I only have experience with the #1 on Aquaclear minis (Aquaclear 20 I think is what it is called now). I'd probably match it to the filter/tank size versus getting the largest size sponge they have. It does make sense to get a larger sponge but like you said, it may be too much resistance for the filter. I do imagine a larger sponge will decrease the flow quite a bit once it starts to clog.

What filter are you using on your 29g and is it a shrimp only tank? If memory serves me correctly, I only had to rinse mine out about once a month but I only had shrimp in the tanks.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

MatPat said:


> I'm pretty sure they all have the same size tubing and adapters but I only have experience with the #1 on Aquaclear minis (Aquaclear 20 I think is what it is called now). I'd probably match it to the filter/tank size versus getting the largest size sponge they have. It does make sense to get a larger sponge but like you said, it may be too much resistance for the filter. I do imagine a larger sponge will decrease the flow quite a bit once it starts to clog.
> 
> What filter are you using on your 29g and is it a shrimp only tank? If memory serves me correctly, I only had to rinse mine out about once a month but I only had shrimp in the tanks.


I have a 29g (with blueberry shrimp), which is one of those kits from petsmart. It's an HOB. On my 10g (cherries and crystals), I have an aquaclear 20.

Do you think they work better than the nylon bag? I too have to rinse the bags about 1 time a week or more.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Tex Gal said:


> I have a 29g (with blueberry shrimp), which is one of those kits from petsmart. It's an HOB. On my 10g (cherries and crystals), I have an aquaclear 20.
> 
> Do you think they work better than the nylon bag? I too have to rinse the bags about 1 time a week or more.


Hmm, I'd go with the #2 for the 29g since it is rated for up to 40g tanks. The #1 should work great with the 10g tank and Aquaclear 20. that was what I had on all of my shrimp tanks before I switched over to air driven sponges.

I've never used a nylon bag but I have tried old pantyhose and the sponges definitely work better than the pantyhose. I've never had much of a problem with removing the sponges from the tank like dgphelps mentioned. You do get some detritus/mulm that comes off of the sponge but in a very short time my Aquaclears had it filtered out of the water again and all I used in them was sponges.

Ken's prices are so good you could buy two of each size and try them out on the different tanks. If the larger one doesn't work out on the 10g tank you'll have a good excuse to go out and buy a couple more tanks since you already have prefilters for them


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## ponyrandy (Jan 13, 2007)

Thanks for the heads up on the price Matt. And while you were posting the suggestion about buying the different sizes, I was doing just that. I bought a #1 and a #3 so when I get them I will post and let everyone know the difference. As far as a bigger filter causing more resistance, it should be just the opposite. I was thinking more surface area should mean less drag unless the diameter is quite a bit larger and it has farther to suck through. And a 90% clogged large filter won't have any more resistance than a 90% clogged small filter. It will be interesting to see how long each one lasts between cleanings. 
Brian


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

I just order #1 & #2. I like the idea that you have nutrifying bacteria in there. Can't wait to see how they work.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

ponyrandy said:


> Thanks for the heads up on the price Matt. And while you were posting the suggestion about buying the different sizes, I was doing just that. I bought a #1 and a #3 so when I get them I will post and let everyone know the difference.


 Hey no problem, Ken's Fish has some great prices and ships quick too. Definitely let us know about the difference in pre-filters, I'm curious since I have only used the #1.



ponyrandy said:


> As far as a bigger filter causing more resistance, it should be just the opposite. I was thinking more surface area should mean less drag unless the diameter is quite a bit larger and it has farther to suck through. And a 90% clogged large filter won't have any more resistance than a 90% clogged small filter. It will be interesting to see how long each one lasts between cleanings.
> Brian


You may be right, especially considering the #3 uses a reticulated sponge. Now that I think about it, I use the #3 prefilters on my Magnum 350 in my plant tank and I use two of them on the Fluval 304s I have on my 125g Tanganyikan tank. The reticulated foam on the #3s are much more porous than the #1's. I can go 2-3 weeks without cleaning the pre-filter on my plant tank and I've went up to a month on the 125g. I still have #1s running on a couple of 10g tanks and they do need cleaned every couple of weeks but they are now on fish/plant tanks instead of Shrimp only tanks.

ATI's Site has a couple of pics and a better explanation of the filters than I can provide


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## lauraleellbp (Jan 31, 2008)

I just started using these sponges on all my filters, and I REALLY like them http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752618


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## jackh (Oct 9, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> I just started using these sponges on all my filters, and I REALLY like them http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752618


i have a penguin mini. ya know how on the end of the inlet tube thers a little cone that keeps large debris out of the filter? would i just take that off and put the sponge in its place?


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## ponyrandy (Jan 13, 2007)

Mine came in today. I didn't get to put them on but here are what they look like.



















Both filters are 2 3/4" in diameter. The Max I is 2" long, and the Max III is 4" long. I would have to guess that the Max II is 3" long. In the second picture is a shot of the adapters and elbows. Each filter comes with 2 elbows and 3 adapters. The Max III is reticulated foam and I'm liking it best so far. The Max I is a lot denser foam and looks like it would probably clog faster, not to mention that it is half the size of the III. I will try to install the III tomorrow and shoot a picture of it in the tank. 
Brian


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

jackh said:


> i have a penguin mini. ya know how on the end of the inlet tube thers a little cone that keeps large debris out of the filter? would i just take that off and put the sponge in its place?


That is exactly what I did with my Aquaclear 20's. There is no need for the intake strainer section, the sponge now takes care of that.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Ponyrandy, thanks for the px. I'm glad I didn't get the #3. I don't have room for the length. I will use the #1 in my 10G and the #2 in my 29g. Hope mine come today!


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## jackh (Oct 9, 2007)

i ended up just grabbin a sheet of foam from the lfs, cutting out a strip and wrapping it around the intake. the foam is black and so is my background, so with the plants infront of it you can barely see it. 

i put 15 rcs in the tank yesterday and the 3 amanos have paid no attention to them so far


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Got mine today! Love it in the 20g. 

In the 10g it takes up so much room. Not sure I can get it in there. The real estate value of a 10g is valuable. I guess I have to decide if it's worth rinsing off the little bag every few days. Right now I'm thinking it is.....


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## ponyrandy (Jan 13, 2007)

I didn't get to put mine in today, will do it in the morning. Tex Gal was my guess on the length of the II correct?
Brian


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

ponyrandy said:


> I didn't get to put mine in today, will do it in the morning. Tex Gal was my guess on the length of the II correct?
> Brian


I think so, but mine is already in my tank, amongst all the plants... LOL


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## ponyrandy (Jan 13, 2007)

Well I got mine in this morning, and I decided to try the III. I was going to mount it horizontally but was concerned about not pulling enough water off of the bottom. So I put it in vertically (I was worried that it would be too long), but it worked perfectly. It is in my son's 10 gallon with an AC 20.

Here is a close up:










Here is a full view. It really doesn't stick out like a sore thumb:










It does take up a little real estate but I figure the trade off is worth it. When I took the HOB off to install the prefilter, there were at least 8 or 9 cherries in it and 3 were DOA. And I just emptied the cherries out of it 2 days ago. I will have to wait and see how long it takes to clog up, but with the bigger filter I expect it to last awhile. I highly recommend this filter.
Brian


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

ponyrandy said:


> I will have to wait and see how long it takes to clog up, but with the bigger filter I expect it to last awhile. I highly recommend this filter.
> Brian


How has the pre-filter been working for you so far? Given my experience with them I don't imagine you have had to clean it quite yet unless you just want to keep it looking pretty


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## ponyrandy (Jan 13, 2007)

Its been exactly 2 weeks since I put it in and flow is still great. Its even still pretty on the outside, looks like I should easily get another 2 weeks out of it. 
Brian


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

The reticulated foam in the III is pretty nice. It seems to allow the smallest particles to pass through and get captured by your filter media but keeps the larger particles (and baby shrimp) out of the filter itself. Are you finding you need to do less filter maintenance as well?


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## ponyrandy (Jan 13, 2007)

At this point I would say yes, but it is a little early to tell since I cleaned the filter when I put the prefilter on. Its funny you mention baby shrimp, I was looking at a larger shrimp on the prefilter yesterday (they seem to love it), and beside it was what looked like a tiny baby shrimp. It was so small I had to get out a big magnifying glass to make sure. It is hard to believe how many baby shrimp I must have been sucking up in that filter before adding the prefilter. I have noticed a significant increase in my shrimp colony just in the 2 weeks since adding the prefilter. If anyone does not have one of these or something similiar for their shrimp tank, be sure and get one. 
Brian


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

The two foam filters I bought are really working well. I do HATE the look of the big foam in my shrimp tank BUT.. since I have added it I have seen teeny tiny shrimplets that I didn't see before. I have had baby shrimp all along, just never seen the tiny ones. I think I must have had some of them going through the cloth bag I had over the intake. If not it sure is a coincidence. They are so small. I too, keep a magnifying glass next to the tank to take a gander at them.

As far as maintenance goes, I haven't had to rinse or anything for 3 weeks (7/8-7/24). That's a lot better than it was before. I would have to keep an eye on the bag covering and rinse it out every few days.


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## NoSvOrAx (Nov 11, 2006)

The II has the same type of foam as the I but is the length of a III (4"). You can stack them together to increase flow and increase the time between cleanings. With a III on my xp2 shrimplets made it into the canister, so I use exclusively IIs now. The II will keep the polishing pad in a xp filter virtually clean. However, if you do allow the prefilter to become saturated with gunk you will see it collapse down on to the internal frame and it will begin allowing detris to enter the canister.

And for those of you who haven't seen my pic. 










Just thought I throw my 2 cents in....


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## PRESTON4479 (Dec 22, 2007)

I am trying to decide which one to get. If I get the filter max 3 can I get away with one on a xp3? Also if I get the filter max 2 is it going to take stacking 3 of them to prevent flow loss?


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## NoSvOrAx (Nov 11, 2006)

I don't think using one would drop your flow until it became clogged. Stacking more together will slow the clogging process. The upside is you won't have to clean your canister as often.

If you have good water polishing going on in your canister then I would say you would probably have to clean the canister before having to clean a III. Its more coarse of a material than either the fine sponge or the polishing pad/filter floss. And for me, those are what clog first on my tanks without prefilters.

And as to the shrimplets, I always have the worse luck, so it could just be me as others report no problems. 

Its not really a bad thing for cherries to end up in a canister. They seem very happy to live inside. You can always dump the canister directly into a bucket when cleaning it. Let the water settle and they'll just be walking around on the muck eating. Powerhead and HOB are an entirely different and horrific story.


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## SpeedEuphoria (Jul 9, 2008)

Bump so I have a new AC20 on my 10G and today I just saw my 1st baby RCS, and it went right into the filter,lol. So I turned it off and looked, I saw 4-5 adults and 1 adult Endler's Livebearer in there to my surprise

So after reading this about the real estate, I'm wondering how the people with the "I" version are holding up? How often to clean. Or maybe I should just get the "III".


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

SpeedEuphoria said:


> So after reading this about the real estate, I'm wondering how the people with the "I" version are holding up? How often to clean. Or maybe I should just get the "III".


I used the "I" on my shrimp tanks for about a year and only had to clean them about once a month. I now use air driven sponges (same size as the one) and they have been in use for about a year as well. I sold the "I's" to a fellow SWOAPE member who is still using them on his Aquaclear 20s. So far they have held up almost 2 years.

I have had one in operation on a 10g (with an Aquaclear 20) that has Endlers in it for over two years now. It does need to be cleaned more frequently in Endler tank than in the Shrimp tanks, about every 2-3 weeks versus once a month. I noticed this pre-filter did not flow as well after a cleaning in old tank water so I soaked it overnight in a 1:3 bleach:water solution. It did not harm the sponge (though it will kill off the beneficial bacteria) and returns it to like new condition. After soaking in the bleach:water solution the flow through the "I" is as good as it is without the prefilter on the tank. I'm guessing it will hold up at least another year or so and the sponge alone is very cheap to replace should you need to.


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## SpeedEuphoria (Jul 9, 2008)

Thanks MatPat! What one are you running on the Fluval 304? just one sponge each? I'm guessing you have 2 304's on the tank?

Well I'm planning on making an order from Ken's. I cant really see how a shrimplet could make it into a "III" sponge but who knows as I have not seen this in person.

I also was going to buy some for my Fluval 304, so I saw the pic about stacking them together and was wondering if they come like that? Does the bottom have a plug or something that you just take out and connect to another sponge? Or was that setup homemade by NoSvOrAx?

So I was thinking about buying 3 number III's(2 for the Fluval 304 and 1 for the AC20) but maybe I should get 2 III's and 1 "II" just incase?


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

SpeedEuphoria said:


> Thanks MatPat! What one are you running on the Fluval 304? just one sponge each? I'm guessing you have 2 304's on the tank?


No problem, I'm glad to help. I'm running one III on each of my Fluvals and yes I have two 304s on the 125g. I have a second III I can connect to each of the current ones on the filter but I've been to lazy to do it  I'm not sure if it would really help much but I guess it wouldn't hurt.



SpeedEuphoria said:


> Well I'm planning on making an order from Ken's. I cant really see how a shrimplet could make it into a "III" sponge but who knows as I have not seen this in person.


I'm not sure if a shrimp can make it through the III but I guess anything is possible. If you are using a Fluval 304, I would think even if they got into the filter the sponges in the Fluval would keep them away from the impeller. I've had cherries live in my Magnums for at least a week but they can't bypass the filter material to get to the impeller.



SpeedEuphoria said:


> I also was going to buy some for my Fluval 304, so I saw the pic about stacking them together and was wondering if they come like that? Does the bottom have a plug or something that you just take out and connect to another sponge? Or was that setup homemade by NoSvOrAx?


The bottom does have a plug and they come with all the necessary connectors to link them together like the one in the pic. They also have a separate III that is basically the sponge and the two pieces that go inside the sponge so you can connect it to a III you already have running. Saves a little bit of cash since you don't get all the "connectors" with it...However, they would connect "in line", making one long III, versus the setup in the pic.

So I was thinking about buying 3 number III's(2 for the Fluval 304 and 1 for the AC20) but maybe I should get 2 III's and 1 "II" just incase?[/quote]
I would probably get the IIIs but they are cheap enough you could add on a II just to see which one works better for your situation.


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## SpeedEuphoria (Jul 9, 2008)

Thanks again!

I was thinking about 2 number"III"'s for the Fluval 304 but I dont like the way they are connected in series. I think making an upside down "T" with them would be better since the series layout seems that the past of least resistance in the 1st one, then when it clogs it would be the next one, ect.. With 2 in a "T" shape they both would be equal in restriction so should clog evenly. I just have to locate the magic "T" piece to make it work.

I'll prob buy 2 for it(304), and just use 1 for now, and then if I find the "T" adapter and notice issues with just the one "III" then I'lll mod it as described above. Although Space in the 55g is at a premium also so hopefully 1 will work or I'll just run the "long" one made from 2 sponges. I guess we shall see.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

SpeedEuphoria said:


> I was thinking about 2 number"III"'s for the Fluval 304 but I dont like the way they are connected in series. I think making an upside down "T" with them would be better since the series layout seems that the past of least resistance in the 1st one, then when it clogs it would be the next one, ect.. With 2 in a "T" shape they both would be equal in restriction so should clog evenly. I just have to locate the magic "T" piece to make it work.


I agree with your thinking but when the first one clogs you can clean only that one, keeping the beneficial bacteria the second one has developed. Simply swap the second one into the position of the first one then put the cleaned one back on the filter. Much less of an impact on your bacteria colony this way though it probably isn't much to worry about on a planted tank, the plants take care of the ammonia produced by the fish.



SpeedEuphoria said:


> I'll prob buy 2 for it(304), and just use 1 for now, and then if I find the "T" adapter and notice issues with just the one "III" then I'lll mod it as described above. Although Space in the 55g is at a premium also so hopefully 1 will work or I'll just run the "long" one made from 2 sponges. I guess we shall see.


One has been working pretty well for me for about the past six months or so. I'm not sure they make a "T" fitting for these pre-filters but you may be able to rig one up with parts from the hardware store.


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## ponyrandy (Jan 13, 2007)

Well its been about 6 weeks since I put the III on my AC20 and flow is still excellent. Since I hadn't had to clean the filter, I don't have a report on any babies in it. I will report when I have to clean it.
Brian


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