# Help! Dwarf Baby Tears keep melting after 4 days



## markl323

of planting. I have killed 3 pots so far. Anyone know what's wrong? I just bought the 4th pot and after this one i'm giving up!

75G
21" tall
Flourite
82F
220W GE 9325K tubes 
CO2 4-5 BPS
PMDD 2ml/day

Fish: 2 Bala sharks, 4 Minor Tera, 5 Octo, 4 Siamensis, 1 Pleco, 15 Neon Tetra, 9 Ghost Shrimps, 5 Redline Tetra.

I just rearranged the filter outtake to be closer to the area planted with HC and started dosing Flourish Excel today.


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## Bryeman

Are all of your other plants growing well or are these the only plants you have? Baby tears in general do best at around temperature of mid 70's. I'm sure others would say they've grown it at higher temperatures, but maybe they had everything else perfect. I'd start with a lower temp. if you can. How far above the surface are your lights?


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## markl323

Bryeman it's about 18". i'll try lowering it to 78F. other plants seem to be doing well (dwarf hair grass, java moss, java fern).


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## Bryeman

You have about the same setup I have in terms of watts per gallon, and I can grow Dwarf Baby Tears, so you should be good there. I know that both my Dwarf Baby tears and reg. Baby Tears do best around 75 degrees, but that could just be unique to my setup. I will say that it took my Dwarf baby tears about 2-3 weeks in all of my tanks to really get going. It never died, but would do next to nothing for that time period. I'm guessing temp. will help, but maybe it's a chemistry thing as well.


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## markl323

Bryeman said:


> You have about the same setup I have in terms of watts per gallon, and I can grow Dwarf Baby Tears, so you should be good there. I know that both my Dwarf Baby tears and reg. Baby Tears do best around 75 degrees, but that could just be unique to my setup. I will say that it took my Dwarf baby tears about 2-3 weeks in all of my tanks to really get going. It never died, but would do next to nothing for that time period. I'm guessing temp. will help, but maybe it's a chemistry thing as well.


if temp is the problem it is going to be expensive for me to grow them during the summer in California. thanks for the info.


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## Bryeman

May not be temp either. I just know mine grow better when 75-77 degrees. Are they being shaded by something? Could be a lighting issue if they are being shaded or if you have thick protein film on the surface. That will reflect a portion of the light. Could be a chemical related issue to, but with how fast they are melting, it's likely light or temp related. Plants don't usually go that fast unless something major is missing.


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## markl323

Bryeman said:


> May not be temp either. I just know mine grow better when 75-77 degrees. Are they being shaded by something? Could be a lighting issue if they are being shaded or if you have thick protein film on the surface. That will reflect a portion of the light. Could be a chemical related issue to, but with how fast they are melting, it's likely light or temp related. Plants don't usually go that fast unless something major is missing.


they are not in the shade. i have that oil film constantly but a it's thin one since i remove it by hands daily until i get the surface skimmer. however, with the 3rd pot, i increased the lighting with another 110W strip (for a total of 330W) it didn't make any difference.

tank's temp has been at 77F since yesterday. i didn't notice any significant melting today but it's only been 2 days with this pot of HC.


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## Minsc

HC does much better for me when I dose EI instead of lower nutrient methods. I think it really likes higher levels of nitrogen.


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## armedbiggiet

That temp is a little high... trim down all the transparent/melted part to have a good re-start.


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## markl323

Minsc said:


> HC does much better for me when I dose EI instead of lower nutrient methods. I think it really likes higher levels of nitrogen.


since i still have a big bottle of PMDD, is it safe to increase the dose? like 5ml/day?


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## Dantra

HC is a CO2 hog. It requires a lot of CO2, I found out the hard way. My HC was not growing well while everything in the tank was having no problems and someone mentioned raising the CO2. Once I did that the HC not only recovered, it exploded.

I was dosing EI, temp was around 78 - 80 degrees. I think at 82 degrees is o.k but HC needs a lot of CO2 to thrive. I kept tweaking the CO2 until the HC started responding well and then added some more. Max out the CO2 until the fish can't take anymore then back off just a bit. Your fish will thank you, your plants will thank you and you will have healthy HC.

Hope this helps
Dan


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## Bryeman

Good point about the CO2. Make sure you have good water movement to allow the CO2 to be distributed throughout the tank. Ground cover is likely one of the first to suffer due to low CO2 from lack of water movement.


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## Minsc

markl323 said:


> since i still have a big bottle of PMDD, is it safe to increase the dose? like 5ml/day?


I'm not familiar with the ppms in PMDD, but I really doubt it will hurt anything.


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## Philosophos

HC seems to do better when you can blow the CO2 over it, giving it the highest concentration levels in the tank. Reactor or needle wheel outputs placed thoughtfully can accomplish this quite nicely.

-Philosophos


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## wicca27

My hc is doing good at 78 or so i have no co2 and only use a sponge filter. Its in 2 tanks and they are 10 gal each. Did u remove the rockwool from it b4 plantimg? I found it better to leave some to help anker it plus there are ferts in it


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## houseofcards

If I read things correctly your tank is 21" tall and your lights are 18" above the surface. That would be 39" from the HC. That's a tough distance to grow most ground covers effectively. I doubt if it's co2, I have grown very healthy HC with no co2.


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## Bryeman

houseofcards said:


> If I read things correctly your tank is 21" tall and your lights are 18" above the surface. That would be 39" from the HC. That's a tough distance to grow most ground covers effectively. I doubt if it's co2, I have grown very healthy HC with no co2.


I didn't take it that way, but if the lights are 18" above the water surface, then yes, that's likely the issue right there.... In fact, I would think that WOULD be the issue. A lot of the light would be reflected off the surface that far away (besides the actual distance itself).


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## markl323

3 days ago i re-positioned the filter outtake so the CO2 concentration is probably as good as it gets (it doesn't point directly at the HC since i still need it to create a surface current but it's the next best position). i also reduced the tank temperature to about 78F and doubled my Excel & PMDD dosing. today is the 4th day with this pot. so far there have been some melting but mostly caused by broken stems and overall not as much as it used to be. i used to turn off the AC when i leave for work in the morning and it can get up to 86F during the day. that could be a big prob too.

wicca27: with this pot i didn't remove the rockwool like i did with the previous pots. no co2? my hat is off to you! can you share some info on WPG and fert dosing? i'm beginning to think that if the lighting exceeds the amount that can be taken by the HC given certain levels of nutrients and CO2 (which is very low in your case), it will kill the HC. i think this might be my problem.

houseofcards: i should have been clearer, the lights are 18" from the HC, not water surface.

PS: now that i think about it. temp during the day used to be too high and that might have been the cause for the melting (as plants need O2 during the day, when the lights are off).


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## Bryeman

I think temp. is the biggest problem and you are all over it. 86 or even higher (no AC, lights on, etc.) is seriously getting up there I would have to think. 

I started doing EI on my 125g tank two days ago and I will say what a difference that made with the Dwarf Baby Tears as well. Couldn't believe the difference a day made. I'm guessing I had something lacking and it was likely Nitrates judging by some tests/observations.


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## Tex Gal

You should remove the rock wool. Spread out some of the HC into different areas. You want it to send out little runners and spread through your substrate.


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## markl323

Tex Gal, i think you are right. i only have used that planting method with my 4th pot and it doesn't spread as well as the remaining clumps from the previous pots.

approximately 70% of the 4th pot has melted and some are still melting. but most of the clumps appear to be growing, forming runners that have firmly attached to the substrate. 

the problem is that they grow very slowly and the leaves are tiny, about 1/3 the size of the original leaves (which have all melted). could this be the lack of macro nutrient or light? i have been dosing 9ml of PMDD daily (to get EI's amounts of K and Trace) and nitrate level has been over 20ppm so i think the only things left to look at is phosphate (which is coming in the mail with Iron and Nitrate) and light. these bulbs are new so i think 3WPG might not be enough. should i add more light? i have another 130W 50/50 strip from USA Current.


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## armedbiggiet

WPG is not really a good way to calculateas cause it does not count the distance of the light that travel. But from my experience that light of yours 220watt is enough. HC also need Iron and all your diet does not have it that could be the slow and small size part. Trim off the bad part other wise it would keep melting or rot. Lack of nutrient should not cause melting, they might not grow so well but definitely not melting. Your HC is under stress give them more time, these thing does not correct it that fast.


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## armedbiggiet

Tex Gal said:


> You should remove the rock wool. Spread out some of the HC into different areas. You want it to send out little runners and spread through your substrate.


You got to remove the rock wool as Tex Gal said here and get rid of the pot as they were growing in a different way than your fish tank in the farm, it do you no good any way.


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## markl323

the melting has stopped completely. i think high temp and lack of CO2 caused the melting.

you are right i should have removed the rockwool. i have noticed that it spreads better that way.

i have 250W now and all the ferts but it growing pretty slow.

MWF: PMDD + NO3 powder + PO4 powder
TTHS: Fe


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