# Manzanita branch...opinions needed



## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

Well, I personally I'm leaning towards the second one myself. What do you think?


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## Navarro (Feb 12, 2004)

Roy is that all the driftwwod you have? if you have any more would you consider using rocks? I just have an idea using an x-shape layout since the nano seems a bit tall. 
Just picture your tank with more branches going on oposite directions resting on a nicely done rock bed. 
Just an idea.
Luis Navarro


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

Luis...something to this effect...hard to do without substrate.


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## david lim (Mar 30, 2004)

real nice looking wood roy but the rocks seem a little overpowering. It might be possible to break some of the larger ones (ie forward right) into smaller pieces. BTW is that slate?


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## gnatster (Mar 6, 2004)

Admittedly I do not have the sense of scaping that Luis does. That rock formation looks to contrived, and to massive for the scale. Possibly something with smaller rocks near the base of wood, flat side parallel to the base of the tank. Just my thoughts.


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## BigFoot (Jan 3, 2005)

Imo the last pic would look good depending on plant selection.


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

Yes the rocks are to big...I just used those because i don't have substrate in there yet. Trying to get the perspective and height of the rock bed. Those are not the rocks i will eventualy use. As far as what type of rock...i don't know. I've had some in my 46 gallon for about 6 months now. I collected them from a wash here in Arizona.


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

The rock layout looks to symmetrical. Take out the small piece in the front, and use an odd amount of rocks. So three would be ideal. The last piece in the back left is a good one to use.

I was going to ask where you got the wood, but I saw the other post. Is the piece covered with it's bark?


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

Raul-7 said:


> The rock layout looks to symmetrical. Take out the small piece in the front, and use an odd amount of rocks. So three would be ideal. The last piece in the back left is a good one to use.
> 
> BTW, is that wood from www.manzanitawood.com?


Raul...check out this thread.
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=4935

Also i will not be using those rocks I was using them just to get an idea of what Luis was suggesting. btw the peice in the back left i will probably use.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Looks like you are off to a good start Roy. Personally I like the last pic hte best but agree that there needs to be work done to the rocks. One issue I have wiht rick, especially in small scapes, is that a) one looses alot of planting area and b) its hard to find nicely proportioned rocks that are intresting rather than blocky, or perfectly round. THe back 2 rocks seem ok to me but It would be nice if th 2 larger ones int he front were taken down a bit. They are just a little to big and to blocky for me. They seperate the front from the back to much. Placing them like they are and then adding the substrate might help as it would bury the bottoms, making them look like they were rising out of the earth, rather than sitting on it. I have been searching for somehting like the Dragonstone, or even black lava rock for some time now with no luck Maybe you can help me there?

What kind of tank are you going for? That layout looks like a prime target for an Anubias, microsorium layout. Consider using Marsilea for the foreground, if you go with one, as it will make your life TONS easier. I would love to see a nice red plant in the backleft, subtle rust red color though.....anyway, its your tank so have fun! Keep updating us.


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

Dennis Thanks...this rock is every where here. If you want some i'll send you some shipping might be costly though. I have alot of it in alot of various sizes.

The foreground will be HC (thanks danio and markster)...and the back-left will be E. Stellatus I bought from Nate. (thank you gnatster). with some baby tears and dwarf hairgrass. That's all i'm sure about at this time anyways.


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## skylsdale (Jun 2, 2004)

I prefer the first one as it looks the most natural of the three (branch appears to be fallen and laying on the substrate, rather than abnormally sticking or growing out of the ground). I would ditch the rocks altogether, fill the substrate up so the branch is resting "on" it, or a bit of the bottom arm just slightly buried, and fill the back left side pretty heavily, somewhat less dense in the right back corner.


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

the one with the rock and wood combo is what I would do with smaller rocks, but if your not using rocks I would sugest more branches. Nice pieces


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## Navarro (Feb 12, 2004)

Why don't you add your substrate and aquascape dry? send us pictures and let see how the tank looks once there is substrate. I have never been afraid of the size of the rocks I use due to the fact that plants grow and in some cases the rocks may no longer look too big after a month or two. Keep playing with your materials and send more pictures! it looks like you are having fun desiging this tank.
Best regards,
Luis


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

Navarro said:


> Why don't you add your substrate and aquascape dry? send us pictures and let see how the tank looks once there is substrate. I have never been afraid of the size of the rocks I use due to the fact that plants grow and in some cases the rocks may no longer look too big after a month or two. Keep playing with your materials and send more pictures! it looks like you are having fun desiging this tank.
> Best regards,
> Luis


Luis I would but, I'm wait for my Aquasoil and Power sand from ADG...Yes i'm having fun doing this but, i'm growing impatient waiting for my substrate system. I'll definately post more pics when my substrate arrives. Thanks for the idea of the rock pile and the X lay-out with the wood.


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## Navarro (Feb 12, 2004)

Ok, I am waiting too man! I need to try it. After going to Mike and Jeff place almost twice a week I still can't belive how fast the plants grow on the ADA 90 cm tank.
Luis


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## gsander (Dec 18, 2004)

*branch*

I do like #2, try experimenting with the cut off end at the top back left corner. The tips of the branches would extend toward the front. It would represent a tree branch dipping into a stream or off a bank of a lake. Plenty of places for taller plants in the back, or just place java moss on it and plant only dwarf hairgrass. Just a suggestion.


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

Well i'm bummed, I found out today that I didn't get my order in time with ADG to be included in this shipment. I can't wait 8 weeks or so for the next shipment so I'm going to use some Flourite I had laying around. Here's a pic of a possible layout...what do you think?


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

put the rocks a little closer to the base of the branch.


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

turtlehead said:


> put the rocks a little closer to the base of the branch.


I thought about that too, but I have a large center-piece of narrowleaf Java fern coming and it will be at the base of the branches.


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

I see I see, nice positioning, sure you couldn't wait for ADA?


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

turtlehead said:


> I see I see, nice positioning, sure you couldn't wait for ADA?


I wish i could wait but I've got alot of plants taking up space and light in my 46g Bowfront, and more that should arrive tomorrow. I've been accumalating plants for this layout since ordering the ADA substrate system. I guess that's what I get for assuming I was going to get in on this shipment. I have no hard feelings toward ADG, it's just a timing issue. I'll definately re-order ADA for my next project. By then he should have it in inventory...hopefuly.
btw thanks for the compliment.


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Roy,

I think the hardscape is great. It should make a solid foundation for a good aquascape. 

Best,
Phil


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

Phil Edwards said:


> Roy,
> 
> I think the hardscape is great. It should make a solid foundation for a good aquascape.
> 
> ...


Thanks Phil, As soon as I get my centerpiece Narrowleaf Java Fern I'll post another pic.


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## Jdinh04 (Oct 7, 2004)

Roy Deki said:


> Well i'm bummed, I found out today that I didn't get my order in time with ADG to be included in this shipment. I can't wait 8 weeks or so for the next shipment so I'm going to use some Flourite I had laying around. Here's a pic of a possible layout...what do you think?


I like it, branchy driftwood seems to be a new design to planted tanks.


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

Jdinh04 said:


> I like it, branchy driftwood seems to be a new design to planted tanks.


Thanks John!!! btw I like your web-site...very cool!


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## Jdinh04 (Oct 7, 2004)

Thanks, it's just a site where I usually publish articles and plant profiles and a forum to just talk about your tanks and stuff. Really don't want the site to be big as it is just like a personal tank blog


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

Got my "center piece Narrow Leaf Java Fern today and planted some Crypt Parva, HC, and Baby tears. I don't know what or if I need a background plant behind the J. fern. I planned on using E. Sellatus I got from Gnatser but, not sure it needs anything back there. Also the back right I planted the baby tears, not sure if I like that or not as well. I do have some D. hairgrass coming tomorrow I play with that when I get it. Sorry for the cloudy water...Flourite don't you know.


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

Nice, I think you need a background plant behind the ferns.


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

turtlehead said:


> Nice, I think you need a background plant behind the ferns.


Thanks turtlehead...I think your right, I'll plant the E. Sellatus back there, I think the color contrast will be nice as well.


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

go for something tall like Isoetes sp. that's what I would out in the back.


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Great start Roy! The layout is already looking to be heading in the right direction, and the rock layout looks almost prefect. I'm sure the P.stellata will for a nice contrast with the M.'narrow leaf'. The only thing that is missing is the ADA substrate.


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## Rob G (Oct 19, 2004)

Roy, it looks like a great layout. My experience with the narrow leaf java fern is that it can get quite long leaves (~12" or so). With that in mind, the E. stellata might be somewhat blocked if placed behind the java fern. However, it is not difficult to keep up with the java fern as it only requires the occasional pruning. So, one could cut off leaves as they get long and have the benefit of the nice contrast in leaf shape and color that the stellata would provide.

Also, have you considered adding any moss to some of those branches? I think it might help to soften the effect of the hard scape. Even a little piece tied to the end of the branch that is pointing out to the upper right corner could go a long way in "naturalizing" the look of the branches. Even without the moss this tank looks great!


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

Raul-7 said:


> Great start Roy! The layout is already looking to be heading in the right direction, and the rock layout looks almost prefect. I'm sure the P.stellata will for a nice contrast with the M.'narrow leaf'. The only thing that is missing is the ADA substrate.


Thanks Raul,

Thanks, yes it wasn't easy planting HC in Flourite.


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

Rob G said:


> Roy, it looks like a great layout. My experience with the narrow leaf java fern is that it can get quite long leaves (~12" or so). With that in mind, the E. stellata might be somewhat blocked if placed behind the java fern. However, it is not difficult to keep up with the java fern as it only requires the occasional pruning. So, one could cut off leaves as they get long and have the benefit of the nice contrast in leaf shape and color that the stellata would provide.
> 
> Also, have you considered adding any moss to some of those branches? I think it might help to soften the effect of the hard scape. Even a little piece tied to the end of the branch that is pointing out to the upper right corner could go a long way in "naturalizing" the look of the branches. Even without the moss this tank looks great!


Thanks Rob!!! I'll have to look into what type of moss I would like to use.


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Who is successfully growing Hemianthus callitrichoides in a pure Flourite substrate?

In my experience, I find the Flourite is too coarse and the HC growth tends to bunch rather than spread.

I like the aquarium desig, by the way.

Andrew Cribb


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

pineapple said:


> Who is successfully growing Hemianthus callitrichoides in a pure Flourite substrate?
> 
> In my experience, I find the Flourite is too coarse and the HC growth tends to bunch rather than spread.
> 
> ...


Thanks Andrew, I know what you mean with the HC and Flourite. Do you have any suggestions on something I could mix with the Flourite.


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Beats me. I mixed sand with it and the result is fairly OK for fine rooted plants like Eleocharis but I have had some criticism about its non-artistic look ;-)

I also tried mixing and overlying it with fine basalt gravel (1-2mm~). Basalt tends to be very blue by comparison so that did not work well. The Eleocharis certainly hid it, the best result. I imagine that heavy (meaning expensive too) planting of HC might overcome it somehow. Or patience... not so good at that one though ;-)

Andrew Cribb


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## Botia dude (Feb 4, 2005)

I found an inert 1-2mm gravel at Octopus Garden in Berkeley that color matched pretty well with the flourite. I mixed about 5lbs into the foreground area and it holds glosso alot better than straight flourite. I still haven't picked up any HC yet so I'll have to wait and try that when I get my greedy green thumbs ahold of it


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

I did the same with some buff/tan coloured gravel. But I find that the Flourite eventually pops up since it seems to be less dense. Substrate is the one thing that is hard or impossible to change once an aquarium is set up.

Andrew Cribb


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

It's too bad I didn't get my ADA order in time, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

I can think of one good thing about using an unadulterated Flourite substrate. Namely, deconstructing the aquarium is easier than (possibly) tearing down an ADA Powersand/Aquasoil system. Flourite with or without a peat layer on the bottom is easy to pour out and wash and store. I imagine, but might well be wrong, that removing a layer of Aquasoil then removing the underlying Powersand might require some patience by comparison. I guess Ghazanfar did that at the 2004 AGA. As far as I remember, he acquired the ADA substrate that Mr Amano used in the demonstration tank. Maybe that's why Ghazanfar is taking a sabbatical - he's still using tweezers to separate out the particles... We live and learn.... ;-)

Andrew Cribb


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

UPDATE: Photo taken tonight...E. triandra in left foreground, Isoetes sp. in back left and xmas moss on branches.

btw sorry if i don't respond...we are leaving for Disneyland tomorrow!!!


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## Jdinh04 (Oct 7, 2004)

Looks good, is thread holding the moss to the branches?


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

Jdinh04 said:


> Looks good, is thread holding the moss to the branches?


Thanks...yes light green cotton thread.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Off to a good start Roy I must say htough the you ma want to reconsider the Elatine in favor of either HC or Marsilea sp. Seems like you are going for the lower maintance tank and Elatine is NOT low maintance. It is a cool plant that adds a wonderful spash of bright green. Maybe if you eventually decide against it you could try it as a midground plant. I think it has very good potential for midground use in small to medium aquariums.

Have fun in Disneyland!!!!!


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

Looks good. Yummy.


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

Dennis thanks for the heads up on the elatines...I still have a clump of HC in there but I'm concerned about how it will spread in the 100% flourite. I'll decide later...I have some HC growing out in another nano tank right now if the elatines doesn't work out.

Turtlehead...thanks for the idea on the Isoetes sp in the background. It's the right plant for this tank and the look I'm going for.


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

No problem Roy!


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## FazTeAoMar (Jan 2, 2005)

Hello Roy.

Your nano looks like it is going in the right way. I love the branches! Personally i don´t like the Java fern. Instead I would put baby tears in there and, with time, form a nice compact bush of it with the tips of the branches emerging out of it. But that´s just me.  As soon as you can, put some new photos with the water clear so we can see more of that beauty.

Regards,

André


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## Urkevitz (Oct 26, 2004)

I think the wild look of the narrow leaf java compliments the wood nicely.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Well, I must say I do have mixed feelings about the Microsorium. I would be worried about it hiding to much of the wood and kill the overall look of the tank. IT has the potential to get pretty big, although its size is very dependant on its enviroment. If it gets to big for you, consider changing to the lace variety as I find it stays much shorter, 5-6" max heigth, and it looks cooler also The lace variety might be a little to "showy" for this setup though. 

Maybe a crypt like C. albida would work nicely. gets about 8" tall, leaves ~3/8" wide with and interesting red cast and crinkle edge leaves. Similar look to the Narrow Java but less imposing, IMO.


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

Here's an update:


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## Jdinh04 (Oct 7, 2004)

Looks great!


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

I can see the growth!


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

HC will grow just fine in flourite. I have a 3" thick carpet of it in my 10g LOL.


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

This tank is heading in the right direction, it just needs time to fill in. I also you recommend you plant more Anubias nana(?) around the crevices between the rockwork, and move the H. micranthemoides to the left side right behind the large rock to give the impression of slanted/triangular aquascape. But overall this tank looks great! Are you going to use P. stellata?


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

Raul-7 said:


> This tank is heading in the right direction, it just needs time to fill in. I also you recommend you plant more Anubias nana(?) around the crevices between the rockwork, and move the H. micranthemoides to the left side right behind the large rock to give the impression of slanted/triangular aquascape. But overall this tank looks great! Are you going to use P. stellata?


Thanks Raul

No P. stellata, I went with Isoetes sp. The Anubias was purchase online and was suppose to be "petite nana" but, I have my doubts. The H. micranthemoides advice is great. I also added some R. wallichii for alittle red accent.


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

Well as some of you suggested, I switched out the narrow leaf Java fern with Crypt willissi lucens. I personally like it much better. I also turned the rock in the middle back on it's side and this really helped out with the balance, i think.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Nice job Roy! I like it much better also The texture of the Crypt is much better for this layout, IMHO. The Bylxa should be a great plant for this tank and with your conditions they should fill in their locations and become nice specimens, creating an excellent mid ground. I would let it grow in for a month or so then rethink your plant choices. I think you will be happy with most of them. Maybe the Elatine will annoy you and I would consider adding some Micranthemum umbrosum to the stand of Hemianthus micranthemoides. I wonder if the leaves of the Isoetes will be "strong" enough now that the area is dominated by the C. willisii lucens?


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## SAWALLACE (Dec 24, 2004)

Looks awesome Roy!
I was wondering if you had to weigh down the Manzanita branch? I heard it was quite buoyant. Also, did you have to do anything beyond boiling it and peeling it? Is there a curing process?

Thanks!


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

SAWALLACE said:


> Looks awesome Roy!
> I was wondering if you had to weigh down the Manzanita branch? I heard it was quite buoyant. Also, did you have to do anything beyond boiling it and peeling it? Is there a curing process?
> 
> Thanks!


Thanks SAWALLACE,

The manzanita branches were soaked in the bathtub for a week. They needed to be weighted down for the first 4 days then the sank on there own. I peeled them after the forth day then soaked them for another 3 days. No curing what so ever.


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

dennis said:


> Nice job Roy! I like it much better also The texture of the Crypt is much better for this layout, IMHO. The Bylxa should be a great plant for this tank and with your conditions they should fill in their locations and become nice specimens, creating an excellent mid ground. I would let it grow in for a month or so then rethink your plant choices. I think you will be happy with most of them. Maybe the Elatine will annoy you and I would consider adding some Micranthemum umbrosum to the stand of Hemianthus micranthemoides. I wonder if the leaves of the Isoetes will be "strong" enough now that the area is dominated by the C. willisii lucens?


Dennis, Thanks for you input on this project...it's been very helpful. I thinned out the Crypt somewhat seemed to be to bunched together and the leaves were not giving me the effect I was looking for. The Blyxa is growing very well in this tank. I've never been able to grow this stuff in my 46g which has Onyx. I think I will like the Elatines, I really like the look of this stuff. Your comment on adding umbrosum to the H. micranthemoides is very interesting. Can you go into alittle more detail for me. The Isoetes should look great when it feels in. Thanks for all your help!!!


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Well as aquascaping Mod I am here to help Not that I know it all nor do you have to take/like my advise.

The M umbrosum/H micranthemoides mix is an idea I got from an AquaJournal, issue# 93. Its all about 60cm aquariums(24" long) Amano used a mix of M. umbrosium and Rotala green. I have doena similar thing in my most recent scape but using HM instead of Rotala green. Basically I had a small stand of micranthemoides started, I trimmed it down and planted stems (groups of 2-3) of M umbrosum randomally in the patch, short stems, about the same height as the HM was trimmed to. The two plants seems to grow at about the same rate. I t seems to have potential. The stand is not fully grown in yet and nmaybe I was a bit hasty as it is an experiment for me, butAmano sure made it look nice. Adds a bit of contrast to the stand without looking to messy, IMO. 

I can't wait to see your tank all filled in, with the Isoetes on the surface and the back right corner filled up. Adding the R wallachii (or to similar effect L arcuata or somehtign similar) should be a nice touch.


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

Here's alittle adjustment here. The low branch in front seems to bother me. It hides alot of the larger rock and the HM. So I moved it higher in the scape, don't know if i like it or not. The only thing I do know about it's placement is that it's here or i'll remove it all together. I also added some more Anubias not "petite" but the next smallest variety. Maybe someone knows the type.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Much better. Do you mean Anubias barteri var. Nana? Petite is actually Anubias barteri var Nana "Petite"


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

dennis said:


> Much better. Do you mean Anubias barteri var. Nana? Petite is actually Anubias barteri var Nana "Petite"


I found it, Gomer mentioned it on a post awhile back. He called it "pygmy" nana. That's what I think I have in this tank. Anubia barteri var "pygmy"

I ordered from AZgardens seven Anubias "petite" and recieved what you see in the photos. Clearly not "petite". I ordered again from them and recieved true "petite" nana. Big difference IMHO.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Pygmy....I don't know that one. I must have some! I wonder if it is another name for nana "bonsai" or nana "narrow"?


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