# ADA style stand and frameless tank



## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Well I decided to get rid of my smaller tank (actually not get rid of, but rather convert it to a turtle tank for my daughter as her turtle is growing fast and will need more room soon).

I went to the local shops about getting a stand and tank I wanted, but the cost was too high and the stick on wood coating just didn't appeal to me. So I made my own.

The pictures of the stand in progress are attached. And I will completely update when I can.

























Missing is the door and the paint of course. I will be painting it with the base coat tomorrow and hanging the door after that. The stand is 61cm X 41cm by 84cm high. The tank will be the 61 X 41 x 45cm high.

Have the soil read and waiting (ADA) the filter Eheim 2215 from big tank being moved over and a new Eheim 2217 added to large tank. Co2 5 lbs ready and wood / stones being bought. I will put date pictures when I can. Just doing wood working in a small apartment in Taiwan with a 2 feet wide balcony takes a lot of time and makes a lot of mess.

For this size tank, how much light do you recommend. 4 tubes of 18 watt should be enough or up it to 6 tubes of 18?

Thomas

PS wood is 3/4" (18mm) MDF boards.

I have tested it with my wight 76KG but not sure how much weight I should test it with. 10mm glass 61cm by 41 cm by 45cm high, with stand height of substrate, drift wood, water and plants.
I am still planning on adding a back support brace the width and lengh of the stand and two side braces at the bottom, all of which aren't usually on the stands my by my LFS, and the wood is no where near as thick.


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

*ADA style stand and frameless tank - First coat down*

Well the first coat (of two) of a grey colored oil based paint is down. Once that is dried it will be lightly sanded and then repainted. The sanded again and then a coat of spray paint to finish it off. 
Haven't fully decided on the final color yet though. Been looking at the grey as I was painting it and like that, then again, I say a blue grey color of spray paint, similiar to a few ADA stands I have seen and I like that as well. Of course there is the standard black that will go with any room and disapear into the background once the tank is set up.


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

*Almost done*

The stand atleast!

Doors hung, stand finished now just need a final color.









Not sure if I will drill holes in the sides for tubes or not. I left a part opened in the middle back so the tubes and co2 can fit up that way even when it is against a wall. will save extra holes. 









Can always add them later if necessary.









Tank should be 29 gallons or 110 litres, and 110 litres = 110 KG of water, plus substrate, rocks, drift wood and the weight of the tank itself. I have tested it with my wife and I sitting on the stand = 130KG approx with no problems at all. So the little more when considering substrate, plants and rocks and wood I will test for later)

There is a cross brace along the back top inside of the stand and a down brace along the back straight town to the base of the tank on the inside forming a sort of T for added security. But you can't see that in any of the pictures due to the angle.

How much would a 10mm glass tank 61 by 40 by 45 cm weigh? Always curious. what if it was 8mm glass?

(My tank maker said that they will do it in 8mm if they use glass rods at the corners for support. If not then they will need to do it in 10mm glass. Does that make sense?)
would like to have it in 8mm as the glass is less green colored and the weight would be less. But since it is a ADA style stand and the width and lenght of the stand is the exact width and lenght of the tank, it might be better to be be 10mm, that way just incase earthquakes in Taiwan the higher weight might hold it in place better. hahaha

I was told "thicker glass means higher contortion when you look at your tank from an angle. For 12mm, even a 10 deg offset will have a bad bad contortion." True?

They saying that they will guarenttee it will not leak in a few years if 8mm if no braces and no rods and the responsibility is all on me if something goes wrong (which is usually the case here anyway), but if 10mm no

What do most people do to test the stand supporting the with pile 300 plus pounds of bricks on it?


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

*Will it work?*

I am not really worried about the stand and the weight as I think it was built well, as I will explain below, but rather worried about the tank itself before it is built.

8mm glass usually has less distortion and not as green of a color, but one shop says it is ok, the other shop says it isn't.
One says it will need glass rods to support the corners the other says it won't.
One says that it will probably leak in a few years if I use 8mm glass, and the other say 10mm glass will make the tank too heavy and is pointless and 8mm is structurally strong enough to support all the outward force put on it by the water. As the weight of the tank is being supported by the stand and not by the tank itself (Unless it is only being braced at the corners and not on a flat surface - someting not being done!)

These are pictures of the back support which are under the top inside back of the stand.








There is a inner support which goes from top to bottom of the stand to further brace the weight from the top (middle board from above picture)








The front of the stand is supported by two layers of 18mm MDF, so 1 1/2 inches wide screwed together joining the sides, top, and front with 2 inch screws








The back braces, screwed to the sides will hold the sides together so now worries about the stand bending to one side or the other. And since the back braces are at the top and the bottom, each more than 1/3 of the total height of the stand it is well braced. (The opening is to allow heat to escape from the stand, make it a little lighter and give a place to grab when moving the stand) Plus I can use it to route the cords, filter pipes and CO2 if I don't wnat to drill holes in the sides.









Do you think this is not enough?

I have looked at the stands in the shops, and they have no inside back braces, the back is usually just 3 mm thick cheap plywood where mine is a solid back. They usually have an inner back support 1" by the lenght of the inside of the stand to support the whole weight. There is no braces at the bottom of the stand and the wood they use is a lot thinner.

The only place I think might ever have a problem would be the bottom of the stand where the sides join to it, but that would only be a problem if someone was standing on the inside of the stand and trying to lift up the top of the stand while still standing on it. (Unrealistic but it might happen) I will put two 2" by 2" boards to support that joint on each side.


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## Melbourne (Sep 27, 2004)

The stand looks good - I think it has ample support for the weight of the tank you are putting on it. It can hold double the weight you currently have without any issues. As for the custom tank, the last one I had built trimless (eg non-euro braced). I did in 3/8" glass in low iron 12g tank. But that was overkill - there is a web page you can search for on google that will tell you the safety factor of your tank given the dimensions and thickness of glass. Search for DIY aquarium tank. I think it was on about.com. On the tank surface, just buy the ADA aquamat or a similar material. I made the first one from a type of foam board but for the price the ADA aquamat is even better. This will give you a good base for your trimless tank.


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Melbourne - Thanks for the advice. I have not seen any ADA mats in Taiwan, and actually have not seen anyone use them.
How thick are they? I have found the foam that is used under floating wood floors but it is usually only 2mm thick. I have enough left over that I can double it over to make 4mm thick and trim the edges. Will that work?

One more question: Anyone who has used black silicon on the tank, how do you like it? The tank maker suggested it as the tank will be 10cm thick so you will see 10mm of the glass joint at the front around the tank where the sides join to the front. With the black silicon you will just see the black, liek a boarder. Does it make the tank look more confined? I figure with a 10mm greenish white of the glass and clear silicon will make just as much of a framed boarder. Any opinions?


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Need suggestions. Please excuse the mess of the room as I am in the process of renovating.

If the stand is grey and the design i have shown










should I go with clear silicon (actuall a blueish green color becuase of the color of the glass at edges) or the black silicon.

I am trying to picture both in my mind and I can't. The LFS says black is better as it will not get dirty looking like the clear and will not be as distracting as the bluish green color which happens when 10mm glass is joined together with silicon.

But does it make the tank feel more "framed" in?

I was wondering as 10mm glass with both clear and black you will see the joining of the glass and with that size and Black ADA soil on the bottom and sides you will see water, black soild, bluish white rim, etc. If it was black would that be better?

EDIT: after checking the site www.elosusa.com and seeing Elo tanks in Black silicon:








I realized how much the black "frame" or confines the tank and makes it look strange on a light colored stand. Guess ADA style is the way to go all clear.

I really want the stand in 8mm glass clear silicon, so I might just talk to the better tank making shops and see what they say.

By the way - I take no offense to any suggestions or comments people say, that is why I ask, to make sure I am think of everything and not missing something. You all have more experience with me, and often get me to think of something new.

Filter for the tank will be Eheim 2215
Intake









and Outflow will be glass ADA knockoffs called FLO Pipes. Look rather cool and the price is 45 USD per set.
















CO2 will be using an external CO2 reactor from a company called ISTA "MIX MAX PRO" it is good, quiet and effective.








or this CO2 diffuser








as I have an extra one lying around and it should be perfect for a 61 cm tank

Soil is similar to ADA but by another company. (I am doing NEW a product test for the company before it is marketed)

Planting and scape will just be a lot of plants and water changes for the first month to have the tank stabilize then figure out what I do with it.

Lighting is hard as the stand is 85 cm high, the tank is 45 cm high (130 cm) and the light I want suspended above the tank. But even if it is 20 cm above the tank that will be 150 cm high. When I am stilling down in my office (where the tank is) the lights will be shining in my eyes! So I need a very flat fixture with good reflectors and T5 bulbs and some type of piece (like a car visor) in front of it that will prevent the light from shining in my eyes.
Like this but not MH??








though might go with this JBJ-61cmX 20cmX 5.5cm 24W*4 = 96watts 
Hopefully I can suspend it from the ceiling of bars
























just need to see how it does with heat dispersion as there is no good light if the fixture can't get rid of the heat and not raise the tank temperature. One of the cheaper lights I use on my 90cm tank, I can't touch the light after on for more than 2 hours and the fixture is too hot!!
Since it is a 29 gallon tank I will shoot for about 90 watts of light in the fixture to give me room. Though I have been following a post about light and T5s and M shaped reflectors which stated if the reflectors are correct and the fixture is flat the light will have a more confined beam and reflect down into the tank better so that the watts per gallon rules do not apply and you can use less wattage of light.

I am staying away form MH as the temperature: I don't what to use a chiller and the fact that MH light the tank well but also "light the room and the neighbors' house". There light is not very confined and shoots everywhere! That would definitely be in my eyes!


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## Haeun (Oct 19, 2006)

:| No idea why this got 1 star, but this is very interesting! I can't wait to see this come together.


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

No idea either. There has been delays in the tank, finding a good tank maker who can do it the way I want. But that shoudl be taken care of this week, then everything will be setup in the new month! Good way to celebrate Canada day, with a new tank!!


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## tfmcder (Feb 22, 2006)

Looking good so far. Looking forward to seeing the completed product. I like those FLO pipes, ADA look without ADA price...let us know how the quality is. As always, best of luck with finishing the rest up.


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

The Flo Pipes arrived. The quality is pretty good and the glass is thick. Not up to ADA standards in finish or packaging (the arrived wrapped in bubble wrap and a box of newspaper) but for the price of 45 dollars a set it is hard to expect that.

Customer service is great, and communications fast so I would recommend them (www.AQMagic.com / [email protected])
Pictures of my actual pipes are shown below.

Trying tofigure out how to suspend the T5 lights. Can't seem to find a metal worker here who can bend pipes so I can do it the ADA style, though still looking.


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## zQ. (Dec 15, 2006)

This flo pipe IMO look much Uglier than the ADA's.


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

ZQ. Understandable, but when you pay 85 dollars per part for ADA and 20 dollars per part for Flo, can you really expect them to look the same?

The main purpose of both the Flo pipes and the ADA pipes is that they do not stand out in the tank, thus they are made from glass. If they were being viewed as a stand-alone art piece, ofcourse the ADA are much better, as you get what you pay for. But once they are in the tank, they will "disappear" into the scape, and you shouldn't really see them, unless you never clean them! Right?

That is why I always wondered why people paid so much for ADA stating that the pipes were so beautiful, but when you look at an ADA tank, do you really see the pipes? Do you focus on them? If so then it defeats the whole purpose of having ADA pipes in the first place, just save the money and keep the green Eheim Pipes. Then youcan really see all the equipment.


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## MARIMOBALL (Jun 20, 2007)

Im also considering the FLO pipes for my 60P, I cant bring myself to pay more than the price of the tank for lily pipes even thow I can afford them. Post pics when the pipes are intalled.


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## andrew__ (May 18, 2007)

good thread, it's always nice to hear about affordable alternatives to ADA stuff. If that soil you're testing works like ADA soil but isn't around $2/lb... it should be a hit for sure


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

The Soil is called Soil Pro Professional Grade Substrate. It will be produced by a company in Taiwan I have been helping test products. It has not bee released yet as we were just working on the packaging. It shoudl be coming out soon. The price will be a lot cheaper then ADA and the soil will buffer the PH to about 6.8.


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## zQ. (Dec 15, 2006)

Ah,another soil from taiwan.I've heard of this one and Magic Soil,anyone 've used magic soil ?


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

zQ. - I don't think it is possible that you have heard of it was just officially named the other day and are working on the packaging now. It has not been sold and even product samples for companies are not out yet.

I have heard of magic soil though I have never used it before.

However there are many soil companies out of taiwan and many different names which are quite similiar.


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## zQ. (Dec 15, 2006)

no no ! i've really heard about it ! In an chinese forum or somekind,but can't remember the URL.


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

really. If true, please let me know if you find the forum again, as I was the one who named it and I named it 2 days ago.


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## zQ. (Dec 15, 2006)

Yes ! I' let you know when i find it.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

You can use metal electrical conduit and buy the appropriate sized pipe bender to make a really slick light hanger. You'll want to paint it black or silver. It can all be done for about $40.00 at the hardware store.


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Living in Taiwan it doesn't seem as easy as that. I can not find high quality elcetrical conduit and can not find the bending tool. The shops I have talked to asked me to go to a metal worker. However he wanted more that 150 dollars to do this, and the style he said he had to make was not suitable.

Still looking, hopefully the tank will be finished soon, and then just have to hook things up. The light I am still trying to get the best for the cheapest price.


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## davidsu0630 (Apr 29, 2006)

Hi! I am new to this forum.
Teacherthomas,are you living in Taiwan? As I am a Taiwaness,I am very appreciated seeing your post with quite a lot of photos here.Your tank stand
looks good.but since the specially made stand for 61cm tank in Taiwan(I am in Tainan)is not very expensive.You really don't have to make it yourself.
My tank size is 61x39x(H)45cm 8MM glass frameless. Already it is quite strong,for using 10mm glass is way too much and just waste of money.
and then I am very interested at The Flo Pipes.Did you buy it from e-bay?
hopefully I can get a pair in Taiwan.
can't wait to see the whole set of your new tank finished.
(MyEnglish is't very good,wish you all understand me)


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Hi David. Yes, I am living in Taiwan. In Hsinchu city. 
Yes, I agree with you, the tank stands in Taiwan are not expensive, especially in the south of Taiwan. I built the stand myself simply because I wanted to do it. It gave me something to do (A hobby) and I feel mine is better quality then the stands I would by here (and cheaper too).

I agree with you, the 10mm glass is a little excessive, but the tank maker suggested it for safety and the long life of the tank so I agreed with him. I figure, better safe then sorry. The Tank to be made was just 2000nt, so the price wasn't that bad for a frame less, supportless 10mm tank. I could have had it made in 8mm, but I would have regretted it if anything went wrong. This gives me more "comfort" room incase hi kids hit is, or bump it, etc.

I bought the Flo Pipes using my Paypal account driectly through the seller. I emailed him and asked him the price and ordered them. The price is 45US a set or 120US for three sets. I bought two sets at the time as a friend here in Hsinchu was also interested. Shipping was included and they were mailed out of Singapore and arrived in 4 days.

I understand you fully so no problems. Please send me pictures of your tank, I would love to see it.
What lighting do you use on your tank as it is approx the same size (T5, T8, PL) and how much wattage?

My tank should be available to pick up tomorrow and hopefully I will get time to start setting up soon.

Thomas


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Well I need to buy lights for my tank as everything else is ready and waiting, problem is I can't decide.

Don't want to spend the money to buy the lighting and then end up needing to upgrade. Have done that before with my 90cm tank and it is hard to sell used equipment.

Which lights do I chose
1. T8 (2 X 20watts) and get two of them for 80 watts as they have great refelctors (Honeycone style) and balasts I would assume the light would be very high and i wouldn't need that much
[IMG]http://i183.photobucket.com/a...st make my house hotter!! and my fish cooler.


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## davidsu0630 (Apr 29, 2006)

I will send you the photos of my tank along with my equipments as soon as the photos be taken.if you can show me how to post photos to the forum.Iwill do it as well.
As for the co2 reactors you post on the first page.i would go for MIX MAX PRO.(and this is what I am using now)because i had bad experience on the 2nd one(the co2 diffused by means of passing thrugh a thin metal layer.once the layer is stuck.the reactor is not working anymore.it only last within a year.)
the above is what I can think of now. good night


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## davidsu0630 (Apr 29, 2006)

I can get to see no.1 and no.2. I am now using no.3 JBJ t5 x 4.This set the relactor design is not really good and the temperature is high.The options for t5 light tube are phillips & osram 24w 4000k or 6500k.(they are both quality & pricing good.)I can not be quite sure what no.1 is.if it is Shiberwright(good quality) or Fishlive.(it's less expensive)I strongly suggest this option.they do't produce high heat and both got perfect reflactor.
as for option 2,nor suitable for planted tank.


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Mix Max I like and use (have 3 of them here - they have updated the model recently as well to fix some of the problems), the other is by the same company. Had it for 3 years now, and no problems. I ahve been using it on my other smaller tanks and on the bigger one before the mix max with no problems. Though I know many people who bougt other brands (Not Ista) and have had problems as well.


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

DavidSu - Why is option 2 not suitable for planted tank?


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## davidsu0630 (Apr 29, 2006)

Sorry! I got the name wrong.the light's name is SchuberWright.in chinese as
舒伯萊特.The brand name is quite well-known in Taiwan .it is known for its excellent reflactor and highly performance ballast.SchuberWright 's got t8 & t5 lights. their t8 is better.here with one yahoo taiwan auction shop site for your reference" http://tw.f4.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/d26062236"
or you may search with the key word 舒伯萊特 to get imformation .
Their t8 AD2 or AD4 won't disapoint you for sure.
As for why option 2 not suitable,because there are 2 major series for T5, HO(high output) and HE (high efficient).24w HO tube and 14wHE tube look the same.the penetration of light is in big difference .HO tube is much much lighte. The same length of tube with such big difference wott.You can easily tell the difference.Aside from the above,the ballast is different between HO and HE . once you buy this set of light that means you can't use HO tube.
Think the reason why we choose T5 light ,it's because of its good light penetration to be used in the water tank.HE 's penetration is quite low it 's not worth to pay money for it and it is meaningless at last.
my suggestion is Schuberwight T8 AD2 x 2 sets. total 80w for your tank although it is T8 light the performance is really really good.
you can go ask people in your area to get the answers. There are a lot of aquarium work shop using Schuberwright.their shops may not be big , they are professional.


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## davidsu0630 (Apr 29, 2006)

In addition ,SchuberWright's got one weakness .Some says its outlooking is ugly.but it is quite subjective , isn't it? If it is possible,it 's better that you go to a shop and take a closer look on the lighting set your own.and then judge it with your aesthetic sense. 
And for T8 light tubes you will have variety to choose from.

Good day . 

Davidsu


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Thanks for the info. I agree with you T8 seem a better option here in Taiwan, looking for T5 the options are limited and the price of the fixture and light a lot more.
I have the JBJ 4 X 30 watts on my 90cm tank, and it really does get hot!! 

I will look at the AD2.
I like the Fishline as they can be hung (a friend has offered to make me a hanging bar for the lights), but with just 40watts hung, no real use!

2 X AD2 would be a lot better then the one AD4 as I would be able to use each on seperate timers and go from early light to midday to light.

Plus the colors of teh AD2 are better then fishline!

what do you think of the first option? Light Power. This is also T8 20 watts X 2 with a good ballast stabalizer and a good reflector. Do you know it? It is a Taiwan brand as well.


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## davidsu0630 (Apr 29, 2006)

I know" Light Power".It's not bad.but compared SchuberWright with Light Power,SchuberWright wins.I have tried to hold a AD2 with my hand to feel its temparature.it was not hot,not even close to warm after the AD2 being lit for several hours.I don't really understand what the secret is.it just happened.

Thomas,one more thing I would like to share with you about T5 light set just in case you turn out to choose T5 . That is what I think you should take into your consideration list.I just found it the other day."Hagen Glo T5 HO Fixture"
It might just meet your need. go to the site below to take a look.
"http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=114384&hl=hagen+glo"
Most of all,the pricing is friendly.In Taiwan as I know the sole agent is 地中海水族館.If you are interested .here with their site "http://www.medi.com.tw/"


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Well I have decided to stay away from T5. The cost is much higher and the tubes harder to come by. 

AD4 seems great. If I can get one with two power cords (each one running two lights) 
Ad2 X 2 is the next option. It can use ADA 20watt light tubes with 8500k

Yeah it is great how some lights never get hot and others do. I guess it is quality of the ballast and the fact that the light tubes are not crowded together and have more space. But I think the quality of the tubes has something to do with it as well as the design of the case alowing good airflow.


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## davidsu0630 (Apr 29, 2006)

I hear that SchuberWright can do special dimension to meet customers's need. yeah you can ask them (be sure to tell them you will use ADA tubes ).I know an Aqua shop keeper who only use 旭光
sun -light tubes(a common cheat tube)with AD2s in a 180cm tank.His waterplants are all beautiful .I quess it has something to do with AD2 for sure.
Thomas .I already send an e-mail to you. please check.
Good night.


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Well I am very late for an update so I will make it a good one. The tank is fianlly setup. That is the equipment is setup. Many pictures here so enjoy, I know I am. I really want to keep the tank empty right now as it is full of possibility and it seems any choice I make in layout will not do it justice. 

Where to begin. With the empty tank ofcourse:









Then the cork under the tank. Yup cork (the same stuff used in bulletin boards) 4~5mm thick. I tried looking for mats like the ADA mat and couldn't find it. The black pading used under floating hardwood floors was too thin, and difficult to come by, so I decided cork after the suggestion from a friend here. (Problems with this???)









Ofcourse there was a problem with the tank. There always has to be a problem, and this is mine. Bubbles in the silicon at the bottom side of the tanks. Unsightly, a little, but only when up really close and looking at the bottom side corner. The tank maker assured me this isn't a problem. Is it?









Now add the intake and return, from FLO Pipes (great prices and looks good - though a did have a problem with my intake being a little deformed on one set I bought)...


















Well they do the same whirl affect the Lily Pipes do (at a lot lower price):


























More of the whirl effec. I love looking at it.

















Surface water movement to remove the protein build up. No more surface skimmer in the tank!! Yeah. Less equipment. shock: What a minute, I am a man, I should want more equipment in my tank!!!: 

















The lights I decided to go with are by Fishline, a Taiwan based company. 









They are the brightest lights on the market it seems:








due to great reflectors for each tube.
It came down to a jump decision based on availability, price and the fact that it was right at the door when I walked in the fishstore, so I took it as a sign from God.
I had planned to buy T8s but considered hanging them and the t5 and fixture is lighter and just 2.50US more for the fixture then T8 so I bought T5 (added bonus T5 are 24watt tubes and T8 are 18 or 20 watt tubes).








Have legs of I don't hang them as well








Color is very different with a Blue and green, but I am not worried about that as much as quality of light and price:


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Though for my second light as this is only 48watts total, I will need more. I will probably buy the more expensive and better colored Schuber Wright AD2.









It is said to not even get warm to the touch, so worth a shot. Though quite expensive. But very effective:








It will be in the front and will probably be T5 to give me more flexiability in light tube choice and better prices.
And with the neutral grey color, not bad








Though it all depends upon my money situation after buying all the plants/driftwood and rocks to setup this tank!


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## davidsu0630 (Apr 29, 2006)

As for bubbles in silicon,you shoudn't be too worried as your tank made by 10mm glass.The tank maker might not be well-experienced or careful while making it.
The lily pipe is good I like it even more.
Schuber Wright is well-known for its T8 series. AD2 go with T5 tubes, I know nothing about their T5 series.in addition, there are quite a lot of china made low quality T5 tubes in the market,with a brand name(such as JxJ t5 tube) it is sold with high price.I never use them.


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Well the soil I am using is called Soil Pro Professional Grade Substrate. It is a Taiwan based company producing it, and should be on the market in the next couple of months. It is fantastic to use so far. "Soil Pro can buffer and maintain the PH at 6.8, providing a slightly acidic environment preferred by plants." is one of the quotes from the packaging.

Nice color and soft but firm texture. Soft enough it won't scratch glass, but firm enough it will hold together. Said to last well and maintain shape, not turning to powder.









Grain size is good and goes not look strange in tank, and is not uniform round balls like one brand, which looks very strange. 









The slope








and the final result
















Now the water test. Will it cloud the water like ADA? I hate adding water slowly and usually just dump it in by buckets. ADA I can't do that unless I want to spend a couple of days with a clouded tank and plants covered with a black/brown film of dust.
So how did it do?
Water in place








The greenish color is from the glass and the room lighting. 








This picture was taken 10 seconds after I stirred the water and soil around with my hand. No cloudiness at all!! Nothing. Just clear water!! Fantastic!

Now this coming week will be the real test of the soil. Once it is planted and the plants start to grow.

Right now I am just running the tank and filter for a few day with just the soil to get things a little established in the filter and the soil to adjust and balance the PH of the water before I add plants. Some people suggest doing this with ADA as it realeases a lot of excessive nutrients at first and the PH is not stable for a few days. I will do it with this soil as well, doing 50% water changes every day for the first 3 days then begin planting.

Chosing the layout and the plants will be the hardest part now!! so many styles I love and only one tank to plant!!


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## arowanaman (Jun 14, 2006)

impresive. It is always more fun when you make a setup piece by piece especially if you make it from scratch. Cant wait till you are planting it curious to see what you do with it.


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## Six (May 29, 2006)

Great work. I too am going to follow your softscaping


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## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

looks good so far thomas! cant wait to see it finished!


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## davidsu0630 (Apr 29, 2006)

It looks good really.for you will have a lot to prepare ,take your time.
I am a bit interested with the soil you are using now.can you tell me the descriptions shown on the bag?


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Ran a test today on the tank:

Ph 7.2
Ammonia (NH3/NH4+) = 0.5 mg/l
Nitrates: NO3- = 0.0 mg/l, NO2- = 0.0 ppm 
Phosphate PO4 3- = 0.25mg/l 
Kh = 3 degrees
Gh = 6 degrees

First time I ever used test kits on a tank so it it interesting to watch how it goes.

Plants quickly about 50% of tank and a piece of driftwood, no layout yet so no pictures. Just wanted to get something in the tank to go with the soil and help establish it as I was using everything new.

What I am considering now is how I will fertilize this tank. Just over the counter premixed stuff common in Taiwan as with a 110L tank the cost won't be that high. Follow the PPS-Pro method or EI Method.

EI for my tank would be:

KH2P04

20-40 Gallon Aquariums 
+/- ¼ tsp KN03 3x a week *Potassium Nitrate *
+/- 1/16 tsp KH2P04 3x a week *Monopotassium Phosphate*
+/- 1/16 tsp (5ml) Trace Elements 3x a week *Plantex CSM+B*
50% weekly water change

(all time 1.5 for my 29 gallon tank as the info is for a 20 gallon tank and you double it for a 40gallon) though if I assume I am running a little lean on the light (I will have less then 3 watts per gallon), then I would start of with the above information and adjust it as growth inproves.

*EI target ranges* 
CO2 range 25-30 ppm - Hardest to maintain with temperature raise
NO3 range 5-30 ppm
K+ range 10-30 ppm
PO4 range 1.0-2.0 ppm
Fe 0.2-0.5ppm or higher
GH range 3-5 degrees ~ 50ppm or higher
KH range 3-5

PPS-Pro is very simple

Need to dose 1 ml / 10 gallon daily before lights come on so I would need to dose approx 3ml daily

That would mean a 90ml bottle of solution would last me one month!!!
And to make that all I need is:
KN03 = 6g = have it
KH2P04 = 1g = have it
MgSo4 = 4g need to get it
K2SO4 = 5g need to get it
TE = 7grams

according to this *Introducing the PPS-Pro Solutions Recipe* http://ca.geocities.com/[email protected]/PPS.Pro.Solutions.Recipe.01.xls.zip

That sounds easy, cheap and not a lot of work, and uses a lot less chemicals then EI.

Great article on the changes in dosing methods and it makes sense to me:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...ck/40706-experiences-pps-classic-pps-pro.html


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## davidsu0630 (Apr 29, 2006)

I had been using DIY liquid fertilizer.(KN03+KH2P04 +water solution with DUPLA 24hr) the result was all my red bee shrimps died within a few days( maybe it was because of the NO3 rising.) the fishes was fine and the plants had growed quickly and larger than ever.I can tell that to fertilize waterplants with EI method is a really efficient way for plant growing.
but with my little 61cm tank,the plants seem too big to fit in with such a small tank.


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Well it has been a while since I posted any pictures so I should post them now. I started everything off slow.

Lights = 48 watts T5 using a Fishline Light Fixture. Very bright. One tube is a Philips Master 865 and the other is the Philips Master 840. So I get a mixture of more reddish light with more white/blue light. So that is 1.65 watts per gallon, very similar to what Tom Barr suggests a tank should have and he give an example with the low light ADA tank. http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31204&highlight=plantbrain

So

Filter is the Eheim 2215 of course with just the standard course green filter media and one layer of white filter floss.

Soil was a test version of soil I mentioned previously. One bag of 9l which really wasn't enough soil but I made due.

Problems or issues = only two, the glass pipes get dirty fast and need to be cleaned as you see in the picture. Two, the soil wasn't enough to easily plant so I made do.

The tank was setup from scratch, so no mature filter, etc.

Day one put in soil and ran filter, no lights no co2
Day two drained all water and refilled
Day three drained all water and refilled
Day four planted the tank
Day five drained half water and refilled
Day six drained half water and refilled
Day seven added shrimp (50 or more small ones)
Day eight drained half water and refilled
Day nine added 5 Rummy noses tetra, One oto
Day ten added fish, what are the called...... I forget orange color suck agea off glass and plants.
Day eleven drained half water and refilled
Day twelve added 5 more rummy nose tetras and two corys
Day thirteen watched fish
Day fourteen drained half water and refilled
Day sixteen watched fish
Now Day 21 drained half the water and refilled

Test results:
NH4 gradually rose for the first 6 days to 1.0mg/l then dropped by the 8th to 0.5mg/l and down to 0 by the 9th day and has been that way since.

Po4 has been a stable 0.25mg/l , the same as my tap water

NO2 stayed 0 until the 9th day, rose to 1.0 then 2.0 on the 13th day then dropped sown to 0 by the 18th day

No3 stayed 0 until the 9th day where is went to 5.0 and has stayed that way until I added ferts.

KH has been a stable 3
Gh was a 6 and in the last week rose to 7

Started ferts for the first time 3 days ago and now levels are

NH4 = 0.0
PO4 = 1.0
NO2 = 0.0
NO3 = 5.0
KH = 3
GH = 7

Dosing is 1.4tsp Kno3 X2 a week, 1/16 Tsp Kh2Po4 X 2 a week, 1/16 tsp Plantex CSM + B X 3 a week

These has been no issue and no algae. Tank is responding ok. I was not able to start CO2 until 3 days ago as I was running tests on the soil, natural buffering level and nutrient levels, and couldn't have the CO2 or ferts mess with that. OH well. Results have been fine.

Here is the picture:









The plants in the two front corners are just there as I haven't had time to do anything with them yet.

Please don't judge the layout to strongly as this setup wasn't really about a layout but rather comparing the soil to ADA soil and water cloudiness, easy of setup, buffering level, quality of soil, downsides, etc.

Good news is have a tank with no algae for 3 weeks and no problems. The soil is good, easy to use and will be a great product, with no water cloudiness.

Bad news is I am dismantling the tank tomorrow. I have been asked to test out another version of soil (this time I will have the proper amount for planting as I have 2 bags) and see how it compares.

Shouldn't be bad, take out all plants, and hardscape. Catch all the fish, remove the soil. Clean the tank. Clean the pipes, etc. Add new soil and start over.

Suggestions on layout welcomed.


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