# Tiger Shrimp & RCS



## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

I'm waiting on some tiger shrimp.
Right now I have about 35 RCS and growing.
Is there going to be a problem with getting the tiger shrimp to mulitple.
I feed the shrimp algae wafers and crab food.
I also have 1 dwarf crayfish and another 2 coming.
The tanks is a 20gallon long.
Thanks


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## Halibass (Jan 28, 2007)

Sounds like you have enough room for both, but Tigers are more sensitive to water parameters than RCS. If they're like CRS, they also breed slower and in smaller numbers so eventually you'll have to ship out some of the RCS


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

Can I tell the difference between a RCS fry and a Tiger shrimp fry.
My ph is 7.8, so hopefully they can adapt.


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## southerndesert (Oct 14, 2007)

Your Tigers may have problems in a PH of 7.8....Also they may not breed for you. They are one of the fussier species needing a PH in the 6.4 to 6.7 range for best health.

Bill


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## Scipio (Feb 18, 2008)

But will they still breed in his PH? If they do then I am also in luck.


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

I'll see won't I


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## Kenshin (Feb 26, 2007)

I can guarantee that your Tiger shrimps will not breed in that high pH. In fact, they will just die one by one within a period of time. Tiger, CRS, and Bee shrimps are one of the most sensitive shrimps out in the shrimp keeping hobby. They require soft, slightly acidic, and cool temperatures to breed. 

The highest pH for them to survive and maybe breed at a "decent" pace will be pH 7.0, but your other water parameters has to be perfect (soft and cool temperatures) along with no ammonia/nitrates, no fish, and no fertilizer at all in the tank.

In addition, your tank will be way overcrowded if you have 1 dwarf crayfish and 2 other coming (not to mention your tetra fish). They will harass and/or hunt down your baby RCS, Tiger (adult or shrimplet) which would actually be a bad environment overall.


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## go9ma123 (Dec 22, 2007)

Your tigers are not going breed well and might have death. I would at least lower your pH to 7.2-7.0 to keep tigers.


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

Define cool


Kenshin said:


> I can guarantee that your Tiger shrimps will not breed in that high pH. In fact, they will just die one by one within a period of time. Tiger, CRS, and Bee shrimps are one of the most sensitive shrimps out in the shrimp keeping hobby. They require soft, slightly acidic, and cool temperatures to breed.
> 
> The highest pH for them to survive and maybe breed at a "decent" pace will be pH 7.0, but your other water parameters has to be perfect (soft and cool temperatures) along with no ammonia/nitrates, no fish, and no fertilizer at all in the tank.
> 
> In addition, your tank will be way overcrowded if you have 1 dwarf crayfish and 2 other coming (not to mention your tetra fish). They will harass and/or hunt down your baby RCS, Tiger (adult or shrimplet) which would actually be a bad environment overall.


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## Kenshin (Feb 26, 2007)

Between 72 to 76 F. Once you reach 78 F or above, the high temperature will start to stress the Tiger/CRS/Bee shrimps out and the shrimps will die slowly (just the same for pH as well - not to mention other fish/predators in the same tank with them). These species are SUPER SENSITIVE when you compare with RCS or Amano shrimps.


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## Scipio (Feb 18, 2008)

I seem to be having a hard time getting my PH down from 7.8-8.0 . I have been doing RO/DI water changes and I have been able to get my KH from 9 down to 5 and my GH 15 down to 7. But my PH seems not to budge in my 125g and my 10g. My Tigers seem fine in my 10g and I have had them for approx 3 weeks now with no deaths. As for my crs out of the 15 I got a month ago I still have 10, 3 died 2 days after shipping and 2 are MIA. But in almost a month no deaths. 

Since I have lowered my GH and KH my crs have turned more white. I also have 3 bcs that have been in my 125g tank for about 3 weeks and they too are showing more white. Even 1 of my bcs is berried so I'm hopping for the best. I have no crushed coreal, no lime stone in my tank that would keep my PH up so have even after the RO/DI WCs. I actually have several large to hugh pieces of drift would that should be lowering my PH cause they tuen my water a light tea color. I have no clue as to why my PH is still so high


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## Kenshin (Feb 26, 2007)

Scipio,

What kind of substrate are you using for your tank?

Are you using just pure RO/DI water to carry out water changes?

What kind of water did you fill up your tank originally with?

If it is tap water, then the 125 gallon already created a very strong buffering system.

What kind of equipments are you using for testing pH?


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## Scipio (Feb 18, 2008)

Hi Kenshin,

1. I have normal natural colored gravel in most of the tank with a little bit of silical sand that remained after I changed substrate 5 years ago (no more then a pound or two). And I did add half a bag of eco- complete to the far right side of the tank to make the RCS and CRS stand out more.

2. Yes I have been using pure RO/DI water for WCs. I'm thinking of going to 50/50 RO/DI and tap cause I don't want my plants to starve since I don't use ferts and don't want my shrimps to get bad molt if I drop the KH/GH to low.

3. I have been using tap water for as long as I can remember ph is 8.0. I believe that one of the reasons my tanks PH is higher then my tap is cause evaporation and me just filling back up with out a WC.

4. I use Aquarium Pharmaceuticals low range and high range test kit.


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## Kenshin (Feb 26, 2007)

Scipio,

Eco-Complete also tends to buffer the water a little bit to a higher pH (unless you actually rinsed it several times before putting in there). I would definitely recommend Flora-Base or ADA Amazonia II soil if you decide to change the substrate next time.

Evaporation does not cause pH to shoot up. If the water is neutral to begin with, it will always remain neutral even if it evaporates. Whatever pH it starts out with, no matter how much evaporation, it will always remain the same. Unless all of a sudden you have an increase of high levels of ammonia, then your pH will shoot down instead.

Also, you can actually use Seachem Flourish but I would only use it for RCS tank (not with CRS though) since they are more tolerable and less sensitive to CRS. However, I would only use half of what is recommended though and only dose 1X per water change. That should be more than enough. I have grown HC, Downoi, C. parva, Eriocalauon sp. and other hard growing plants without CO2 and fertilzer in shrimp tanks with good success. The growth might be very slow but as long as you have enough light, it will still grow and not starve over time. Plants do not need that much nutrients compare with animals.


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## Scipio (Feb 18, 2008)

Thank you Kenshin,

I did rinse the eco-complete several times before adding it to my tank. I think I'm just going to have to wait it out and see if the PH will drop on its own after time with WCs of 50/50. If not then I'm just going to have to hope for the best. 

I'm starting to get to to zealous and stressed out at the same time over the water perameters. The last time I went through this when I had Discus I ended up getting burned out. When you hobby turnes out to be a work related chore then its no longer fun :smash:


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## Scipio (Feb 18, 2008)

Found a CRS berried today  Now lets see if I can find a berried tiger in the coming days. Seems like as long as my KH/GH is not to high the high PH may no be to much of an issue. But only time will tell.

And if I'm lucky enough the CRS will give birth.... to what? Other CRS or to Tiger hybrids? Here also only time will tell.


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## Scipio (Feb 18, 2008)

WOW!!! right after my last post I went over to my 125g and found a berried tiger eace:

Now will she give birth to tigers or CRS hybrids? Again time will only tell.... if they don't drop the eggs rayer:


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## Kenshin (Feb 26, 2007)

Why did you put the Tiger and CRS together? If you know they are going to create hybrids (if they interbreed), why did you even attempt that? The hybrids do not even look close to either parents. 
I hope you do not plan to distribute them to others. 

In addition, your high pH is and will always be an issue. Why did you still put them together in the 125 gallon tank with all the other fish (tetras)? Almost all of the (if not all) shrimplets will be eaten by your fish or die by your pH. iIt just seems like you are trying to prove me wrong on purpose by doing everything the opposite. If that is the case, why bother to even post your question or waste all that money on the Tiger and CRS shrimps in the first place?


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## Scipio (Feb 18, 2008)

Kenshin,

1. I put them together before I actually found out they could interbreed and once I found out they could I didn't think they would breed anyways in my high PH. I hear that crossing them will breed the so called red tiger, but who know? I sure don't.... I'm new. I can always split them up at a later date.

2. No, I have no plans to "distribute" them to others. 

3. I now know that my PH is always going to be an issue since I can't seem to do nothing to lower it aside from adding CO2. 

4. Who said I had fish? I have not had fish in my tanks for over 4 years.

5. You say that it seems that I'm trying to prove you wrong. How is it my fault that they (tigers and CRS) are now berried? Please don't assume that I am trying to prove you wrong. I posted cause I need help and am still learning. 

Perhaps you never made any mistakes when you first started out but I for one am not ashamed to learn from my mistakes. When I first got the CRS I read in two separate places that CRS can breed in PH of 7.5 but they do better in lower PH. I have read in other forums that PH is not as important as making sure that the GH/KH was low aswell as the TDS. I guess I got a little ahead of my self instead of doing more research. But what can I do now? ..... Ah yes I can learn and that is why I am posting and asking questions. Would you rather me not post and ask question since I might end up offending you again with my ignorance and things that might be out of my control? Sorry 

Well I'll see what happens in the days to come. Maybe they will dump the eggs since my PH is to high. Forgive me if I seem upset but I in no way ment to offend you. But your assumptions have bothered me just a bit. 

Once again I have no control that I have berried shrimps in high PH when they are not supposed to. Perhaps the shrimps forgot to read the memo.

My apologies


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## Kenshin (Feb 26, 2007)

Scipio,

First of all, you do not need to apologize to me. I am (and was) never offended by your posts. I know you just need some guidance in your situation. But I was just annoyed about your pH situation in addition to your Tiger/CRS situation. I do not want you to spend too much money on shrimps (because I have been there before and done it) so I tried right away to give you my best suggestions. I just believed you did not even want to bother with my suggestion (or maybe other people's suggestions as well) but keep doing it your way and in my assumption I believed you were trying to prove me wrong (or others as well). 

The reason I said you are keeping them with fish (tetra) is because I read from your other threads you have posted in which you mentioned you kept fish in your 125 gallon tank. Therefore, I brought that concern to you to emphasize the point it is very hard for you to keep dwarf shrimps with fish (even tetras).

Shrimps can always be berried and carry eggs no matter how high/low pH their environment is (as long as there is a male and female or even just females alone - but just not fertilized). 

You do not get the "red tiger" from interbreed these two shrimps together by the way. And if you do not separate them fast enough, and if the parental generation die off, you will end up with only hybrids and it will never return back to its original parental form.

I am never perfect because I make a lot of mistakes as well when I first started this shrimp keeping hobby. However, I try my best to find solutions right away and not try to force the issue (such as interbreeding similar species together because once I know right away, I will separate them) to make it work or would not assume it would just work. 

In other forums, you might have read the pH is not important. I will tell you the reason why. Most of the people stating that is from Asia where the water source is slightly acidic and super soft. Those are the same people that have high success in breeding Tiger shrimps and "high grades" CRS (along with similar requirement shrimp species). In addition, they are using ADA Amazonia soil in their tanks since that (or similar products) are sold mostly for planted aquarium substrate in Asia. This substrate makes the tank a little further acidic and will prevent any pH fluctuations. So therefore, those people always assume the pH is not a big factor in raising Tiger shrimps or CRS. 

My suggestion is just use 80% to 90% RO water for your aquarium. Just add some Seachem Flourish so your plants will still thrive. If you are worried about GH, just add some Seachem "Raise Calcium" in it as well. That should do the trick. That way, your pH would be further stablized. If really necessary, you can always try to lower your pH by adding muriatic acid but if you add too much it would increase your kH too much which would be bad as well.


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## neilfishguy (Mar 10, 2008)

Hey, If I were you, I would add water softener pillows for a month or so, and do like 10 percent RO/DI water changes every day so that the ph should get a tiny bit lower every day. You could also add peat or some untreated driftwood to lower the PH but you will also get some darkening of the water from tannins. It will still be clear, just tan. Over time your ph should get lower and lower and eventually the tannins will be gone and your tank will be stable.

I have to say that I like what you are doing and think it will be cell to see the young, but I believe that they will be pure because it is such a large tank it is closer to a natural habitat where interbreeding almost never happens.


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