# Phosphates and foods?



## fishtk75 (Sep 6, 2006)

I a El Natural tank do you worry about very high PO4?
I test and comes to over 10ppm.
If so besides WC how do you keep it low?
I tested the so call low PO4 food I have it was high over 10ppm.
What do you all use as food plans to help lower PO4?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

fishtk75 said:


> I a El Natural tank do you worry about very high PO4?
> I test and comes to over 10ppm.
> If so besides WC how do you keep it low?
> I tested the so call low PO4 food I have it was high over 10ppm.
> What do you all use as food plans to help lower PO4?


Unless you have an algae problem, I wouldn't worry about this level of phosphates. At this level, phosphates are absolutely not going to hurt anything. In the lab, we use about 25 ppm (as a buffer) to grow our mammalian cell cultures.

Wastewater treatment use filter bacteria to bring phosphates down from 100 ppm to about zero. Aerobic filter bacteria will take up phosphates. All you have to do is remove debris from the filter material. It may take awhile for these bacteria to build up in your filter.

I have never heard of feeding fish phosphate deficient-food to lower water phosphates. But I guess there's something new to be learned every day.


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## fishtk75 (Sep 6, 2006)

dwalstad said:


> Unless you have an algae problem, I wouldn't worry about this level of phosphates. At this level, phosphates are absolutely not going to hurt anything. In the lab, we use about 25 ppm (as a buffer) to grow our mammalian cell cultures.
> 
> Wastewater treatment use filter bacteria to bring phosphates down from 100 ppm to about zero. Aerobic filter bacteria will take up phosphates. All you have to do is remove debris from the filter material. It may take awhile for these bacteria to build up in your filter.
> 
> I have never heard of feeding fish phosphate deficient-food to lower water phosphates. But I guess there's something new to be learned every day.


Thank you again Diana for your help.
I will do as everyone said and not get over board and do WC and watch the fish.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Glad I could help.


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## snowy (Jun 6, 2006)

dwalstad said:


> I have never heard of feeding fish phosphate deficient-food to lower water phosphates. But I guess there's something new to be learned every day.


I know of an instance (not in a natural tank) in which shortly after commencing feeding the fish with a colour enhancing dry food, the tank had an outbreak of algae. This was the only change that the owner had made and, after discontinuing use of this particular food (Tetra Color Bits), the algae was brought under control.


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## fishtk75 (Sep 6, 2006)

snowy,

thank you I will look out for that.


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## Patchy (Jun 3, 2005)

i can second snowys observation. Tetra colour bits seem to have alot more phosphate then any other food i have used. I observed this when i started to include colour bits into my fish only tank. It didnt tank long for algae to start appearing here and there. However in my NPT excess phosphates dont really do anything.


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## Lawrence Lee (Jul 17, 2004)

Try something radical here and see what happens. Add in some inorganic Nitrate to your phosphate exceeding tank.

I have NPT and high maintenance EI tanks at home. Trice a week, I'd measure out Nitrates and trace elements into a bottle, mix with water and add into my EI tank. Also trice a week, the day after adding in my KNO3 and trace, I'd measure 2ppm of Phosphate, mix with water and add to these EI tanks.

I didn't have to do much for the NPT except to add in a squirt or 2 of All-in-one fertiliser when I see the plants slow down in growth. But daily, I need to add 500ml of water to make up for evaporation.

Then one day, I got the bottles mixed up. I added the bottle containing 2 ppm of PO4 meant for my 56L into my tiny 12L NPT. Horrors, that's like adding 10ppm of PO4 into this tank! should I change the water immediately?

I decided against it, but instead added the equivalent of 20ppm of NO3 from Potassium Nitrate into this tank. Then I put on all my observation powers to this tank and waited for a reaction.

After 2 days, I noticed the Java ferns, hairgrass and frogbits have put out new growth. In a week, the tank was choked (12Litres is but a bowl of water). By the second week, even the Cryptocoryne parva, infamous for its near-zero growth rate had put out 1 new leaf each! At the same time, the little bit of green spot algae on the glass near the waterline stopped growing!

I was pleasantly surprise at the rate of growth an NPT can achieve if supplemented with some macro fertilisers.

Now-a-days, I add weekly a one tenth strength dose of the same fertilisers I put into my EI tanks, and I've been enjoying good growth with no algae at all.


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## fishtk75 (Sep 6, 2006)

thank you


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## blacksmith37 (Oct 10, 2006)

Any fish foods I have are very high protein ,like>25%. Proteins all contain nitrogen and phosphorus , and other stuff. As the protein is digested; you eventually get nitrates and phosphates into the water( if you put fish food into the tank). I can't see how this is a problem in a planted tank as the plants absorb NO3 and PO4 to make... proteins.
When I had salt water ( and measured NO3 and PO4 ) they stayed very low as I removed them in the form of caulerpa ( which I traded to pet shops for fish food, one big happy circle).


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## fishtk75 (Sep 6, 2006)

blacksmith37 said:


> Any fish foods I have are very high protein ,like>25%. Proteins all contain nitrogen and phosphorus , and other stuff. As the protein is digested; you eventually get nitrates and phosphates into the water( if you put fish food into the tank). I can't see how this is a problem in a planted tank as the plants absorb NO3 and PO4 to make... proteins.
> When I had salt water ( and measured NO3 and PO4 ) they stayed very low as I removed them in the form of caulerpa ( which I traded to pet shops for fish food, one big happy circle).


blacksmith37,
Thank you 
I have bad media the Eco-Complete is bad that it is putting out high PO4 off the scale on my 2 brands tests that is with 50% weekly water changes.
I tested the tap water PO4 is zero.
Waiting for Caribsea shipping me the new media.
Also was looking for if foods was putting and adding to the problem.
If there are foods out are made with low PO4.


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