# CaSO4 & CaNO3



## BigFoot (Jan 3, 2005)

Where can i buy CaSo4? This is to be used in the discus mix.


----------



## cS (Jan 27, 2004)

BigFoot said:


> Where can i buy CaSo4? This is to be used in the discus mix.


You can find it in any garden center in the United States as "Gypsum". Home Depot and Lowes also stock it.

Like CaCO3, it is not very soluble in water. CaCl2 is a better alternative since it dissolves _very well_ in water; but Edward believes that the Cl is detrimental to plant health. I do not recall but does the PPS documentation give any tips on improving its solubility so that you can make a solution out of it? A long time ago, I tried to make a solution of CaSO4 and then CaCO3 to no avail. I ended up making a slurry and adding it to the tank directly. The slurry prevents clumping that would otherwise happen if you add these powder straight into the tank. The CO2 supplementation then takes care of dissolving the rest.


----------



## cousinkenni (Jan 24, 2005)

CS is right, 

You can get it in very large less pure forms from home repair stores as "plaster of paris". You can also get it as a more pure "potable" form from just about any home brewing store (labeled as CaSO4 or Gypsum as CS said).

KT


----------



## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

I got Gypsum Replacement from Home Depot, like $4 for 40lb. I tested it, TDS raised from 230 to 430 in the test tube, but it requires a good stirring. So it is impossible to make a concentrated solution from that, but won't be a problem adding it directly to the tank after stirring it a bit in a small container. Solubility is still far better than CaCO3.


----------



## BigFoot (Jan 3, 2005)

I am not adding this to the tank. I want to add it the Ro water in resevoir. To make water changes easier.


----------



## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

It depends on how much water from resevoir you use each time relative to tank size, and how much Ca you want to raise in the tank. Obviously it is easier if you only need to raise a little bit Ca with lots of fresh water, then maybe you can dissolve enough in the resevoir. I thought you are using PPS with no water change, just top offs.


----------



## Edward (May 25, 2004)

BigFoot said:


> Where can i buy CaSo4? This is to be used in the discus mix.


Hi BigFoot
Try finding a source of CaNO3 in your area, usually hydroponics and Plant product stores. I can give you a recipe on how to use the CaNO3 in PPS method.

Thank you
Edward


----------



## BigFoot (Jan 3, 2005)

Hi Edward 

What is CaNo3? I am not for sure butt i will guess it is calcium and nitrate is this right.


----------



## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

it CAN'T be CaNO3, no such thing, maybe Ca(NO3)2? Calcium nitrate.(lime saltpetre).


----------



## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Ca(NO3)2.4(H2O)
Calcium nitrate tetra hydrate is an essential part of hydroponics greenhouse fertilization process. It is widely available and comes in pellet form. As you can see it supplies Ca and NO3 without any unnecessary ingredient. 

Thank you
Edward


----------



## chiahead (Dec 18, 2004)

I found some Cano3 at my local hydroponic store. Its in a very small grain size. Like common calcium chloride.


----------



## fishyface (Feb 7, 2005)

Hi Edward,

is it possible to use only CaCl2 or do i need CaSO4?? also, is this used only if my Ca is too low? just wondering if i really need it since i have everything for PPS other than these 2 additions. i do have some seachem equilibrium though...is that just as good instead??

thanks for your help,

darryl


----------



## Heather Gladney (Sep 5, 2004)

I believe I saw an ad on the site (at the bottom?) for Greg Watson.
I've been happy with his chemicals, reagent grade, very finely ground, nice stuff, he was extremely nice on customer service.
(No, I don't know him, or own stock in his comapny, or any of that!)
The dolomite is a powder that looks cloudy when I first add it in a water change (I don't even bother letting it sit in replacement water overnight) and it's clear in an hour or so. That's the most insoluble of what I've used, too.


----------



## BigFoot (Jan 3, 2005)

Hi FishFace


What is your Ca level ? You may not need either one.


----------



## fishyface (Feb 7, 2005)

Thanks for the answer Heather, I've purchased from Greg Watson before but couldn't see it on his website. Anyhow i agree with you, he's a great and very helpful man.

Bigfoot, thanks for answering also, i believe i may not need it just as you mentioned since my Ca level is 40 ppm, do you agree?. If i do need Ca can i just us equilibrium? it's 4:1 Ca Mg...

thanks for your help you guys/ gals...i look forward to restoring my tank back to it's former beautiful state again.


----------



## BigFoot (Jan 3, 2005)

I have read that you can go as low as 30 ppm of Ca and be in the good. So 40 ppm is good all that you need to do is keep and eye on the Ca and Gh to make sure you stay in the 4.1 Ca/Mg ratio. As far as the Seachem products i have no idea what ratio that is that would be a good question for the seachem guys. I too am wondering what ratio they use.


----------



## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Hi fishyface
The Ca:Mg ratio is unimportant. As long as there are the two elements present most plants are happy. 

Thank you
Edward


----------



## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

I've found many issues that folks relate to Ca, are actually NO3......

So Edward's suggestion, adding Ca and NO3 is good as long as you need both. You might not figure out and isolate the issue that causes the suspected Ca issue, but you will have a better chance at solving the issue.

CaCl2, CaSO4 and Ca(NO3)2 can all be used to figure this out and to see influences of Cl vs SO4. This can take awhile and requires you to set out on purpose to torture your plants but you can see the differences in this manner and still dissolve the cotton picking stuff.
I'd personally go for CaSO4 if you have very soft water if you are interested in adding Ca and not dealing with more NO3. 

But the practical solving part would be better using the Ca(NO3)2. 
Even if say 50% of the NO3 comes from Ca(NO3)2, you can still top off well with KNO3 and still have enough K+ or add a little more K2SO4 etc.

You have many choices of which chemical to use to isolate various ions and gauge their effects.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## PK1 (Oct 4, 2005)

*CaNO3*

Hi there,

I am very curious to know how to dose CaNO3 (what % is Ca and what NO3 so I can calculate the dosing) - any other information on this topic will bevery much appreciated.

And, oh... what exactly is PPS???? I have found interesting info. on EI published by Tom Barr, but couldn't find anything on PPS...

Thanks!!


----------



## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Hi

I have grown aquatic plants under CaNO3 for a while as an experiment and suspended the idea because plants grew only green. Even red plants grew green. Some species also suffered from the dosing and died.

Edward


----------



## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

what do you think is the cause? People do grow red plants with high Ca/GH, and I grow red plants fine in very high NO3. Maybe it has high level of harmful impurities?


----------



## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Hi

This experiment was not about high Ca, GH or NO3. It was about using CaNO3 as the only source of Ca and NO3 in the water at 24 ppm NO3 and 5 ppm Ca. I was hoping to find a solution for simple Ca dosing in Ca deficient waters.
Most plants grew very well in the CaNO3 environment, unfortunately some didn’t. Not sure what the reason could be.

Edward


----------



## kekon (Aug 1, 2005)

Did you have tips burning or leaves twisting when using Ca(NO3)? (I mean, on those plants that died)


----------



## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Using symptoms doesn’t go anywhere; dying plants usually look the same. But it affected only two or three species, no more. Every other plant was doing well except no red colours. 

Classic K2SO4, KNO3, KH2PO4, MgSO4 and Discus Mix work very well. CaCl2 can replace the Discus Mix if water changes are performed. 

Edward


----------

