# Diy co2 not working



## lycaon (Aug 5, 2009)

Ok so i dissolved 2 cups of sugar in a 2l bottle then added 2 teaspoons of yeast. Then sealed the airline to the cap, put on a check valve, and hooked the end of the tubing up to an airstone and 3 days later i still haven't seen a single bubble. I filled the 2l up until it was only about 2 inches from the top. Is this too much water? Can anyone please tell me if i made the mixture concentrated enough or whatever else i may be doing wrong?


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## TAB (Feb 7, 2009)

1st check for leaks.

how hot was the water?

did you dechlorated it before adding the yeast?


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## lycaon (Aug 5, 2009)

I didn't notice any leaks and i used warm water to dissolve all of the sugar before adding yeast and colder water. I sealed the tubing with krazy glue. I'll check for leaks again but i'm pretty sure it's sealed. Is my mixture ok?


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## TAB (Feb 7, 2009)

its a little too much water, but not really a big deal. do yourself a huge favor. fill a bucket with water, put the entire bottle in there, then either hook up a air pump too it or blow into the tube.

I'll bet you find a leak.


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## armedbiggiet (May 6, 2006)

Krazy glue would fail in a long run... CO2 would change glue later.


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## lycaon (Aug 5, 2009)

I found out my check valve was what was making it not work. I think I may need a new one or use a smaller tubing maybe. I was planning on getting a different kind of glue also. Any suggestions?


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Shake the bottle over a sink.


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

Never heard the answer to if you dechlorinate the water.


TAB said:


> did you dechlorated it before adding the yeast?


 If you didn't then thats a problem.

Mr Sticky's underwater glue.


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## armedbiggiet (May 6, 2006)

I never dechlorinate, or maybe our city water are not so bad.


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

Your local water authority should be able to tell you the pH (yeasts grow best in a neutral pH environment) and what the chlorine levels are. EPA requires the detection of chlorine in water samples to be greater than 0.0 mg/L total chlorine. EPA also requires water systems to maintain the annual average at or below 4.0 mg/L. Most of the information will be posted on their web site along with other water quality information like if they add chloramines to the water. In any case chlorine slows/stops yeast cell growth.


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## Gibby (Aug 5, 2009)

I have bought several check-valves and I always blow into them to ensure that they are free moving. You may be generating CO2 but there isn't enough pressure to open the valve.

One of the valves nearly had me turning blue because it wouldn't free up. The second blow opened it and it's been free since.


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## lycaon (Aug 5, 2009)

I've never dechlorinated the water for the co2. I found out that is was just crappy airline tubing. I tried using smaller tubing and it worked. I think my citys water is pretty hard and they dont use chlorine but that's all i know about it for now


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## agy (Sep 18, 2009)

Try guys this one - Russian Recipe from my Friend who make for me 2 diy bottles
Lasts up two months

2L bottle

1tsp Yeast
0.5 - 1tsp soda
1.5L Aquarium water with a lot of minerals(mostly before water change)
300-400 grams or 2-3 cups (approx.) sugar

Recipe Secret - Never Mix All together
First Sugar in bottle, then fill bottle over sugar with already mixed yeast, soda and warm water(not hot and not cold) mixture.
And do not shake !

When bottle refill Leave some deposits at the bottom for following mixture.

I hope - to You will help


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

Hi agy,
I'm still new to some of this. So, thank you. Does your friend have a Russian recipe for the alcohol? Is there something that can be done with that stuff? artyman:


lycaon said:


> Then sealed the airline to the cap, put on a check valve, and hooked the end of the tubing up to an airstone


Where do you have the airstone? Are the gas bubbles just floating to the surface or do you have a way of spreading them around the tank?


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## tbonedeluxe (Jun 29, 2009)

agy said:


> Try guys this one - Russian Recipe from my Friend who make for me 2 diy bottles
> Lasts up two months
> 
> 2L bottle
> ...


Is that soda as in coca-cola or baking soda?Just wondering because, i already use baking soda.


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## agy (Sep 18, 2009)

baking soda. Sorry.


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

Never dechlor'd my DIY. Never used a check valve. Never had an issue. 

Sometimes, I think people try to over think the whole DIY CO2 thing and it ends up being a mess. Keep it simple, make sure there are no leaks in your system and be patient.

It's really not as complicated as all these "DIY Not Working" threads make out. 1 2lt bottle, 2 cups sugar, fill with warm water, add yeast. Do not mix. Simple.

Sorry to sound brusque, but there are a hundred similar threads each week, all of them end up being an attempted lesson in rocket science and thermo-physics...K.I.S.S.


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

You never needed my check valve, but having one gives me peace of mind. Hearing someone else figure out yeast and those check valves is refreshing. If your interested, a few inches from the yeast bottle, add a cv to use at night when pulling the CO2. Pulling the hose from the reactor at night is as much about the yeast as it is about the fish. The cv lets the bubble count start right at were it was left that night and gives the yeast bottle a chance to breath. 

What I am learning noidea: I am nobody here), is that yeast is alive. I don't use water from the tank like agy, but I dechlor'd water I prepare to top of the tank and use some for my yeast. What really makes for a strong yeast culture is often cultivated and a trade secret. Wine yeast sounds interesting. If at 78 °F it will grow at the same rate as S. cerevisiae.

Thanks for the thread.


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## Bunnie1978 (Sep 29, 2009)

I didn't know that! Should I be declorinatig the water with a conditioner, or just use Brita water?


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

Agy's friend is on to something. I've started using water from the fish tank and Brita water. Lots of minerals and who knew yeast would like the nitrates too. Dechlorinating the water is probably not necessary but neither is chlorine.


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## fishaquatics (Aug 2, 2009)

Does co2 help algae grow or kills it??

-Ian


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Ian,

I don't think CO2 either helps or hinders algae growth. CO2 does help the plants grow faster and out compete the algae for the available nutrients.


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## fishaquatics (Aug 2, 2009)

Thank you Seattle Aquarist, because people said it would help kill it. Now I know why, because it helps, out compete the algae.


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

This might be just a mater of semantics, but another way of saying this is that poor plant growth indirectly leads to algae. Here is nice discussion on algae by Tom Barr:
http://www.barrreport.com/general-plant-topics/6297-hair-algae-problem-brewing.html


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## mikslik (Sep 30, 2009)

Tug- I have used tap water in my DIY 2 liters for 2 years and had no problems. I have to change out bottles every 1 to 1.5 weeks. Would I get more time out of the system if I dechlorinated?


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## wi_blue (Apr 5, 2005)

Tap water vs. Distilled won't make a huge difference in CO2 production, though I have heard that bewers or wine yeast is better than your runof the mill active dry yeast for baking.


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

Hi mikslik.
After hearing about Agy's friend using fish tank water I tried it and found that it works very well. Who knew yeast would like nitrate? Not me, until I read up on it. To answer your question about chlorine, probably not. More likely it has more to do with other qualities like pH and mineral content.

I am using 12 oz of water for my setup along with baking soda, sugar and a small amount of spirulina. Having a bigger bottle doesn't seem to make much of a difference either. I can average a bubble every 2 to 4 seconds for about a week this way. When the bubble count starts to slow down after a week I can feed the yeast a little sugar and spirulina slurry and get another few days out of the stuff. I also unhook the yeast bottle from the tubing at night to let the yeast breath. It can't hurt. How much yeast to use is also important. Too much and I get a fast/high bubble count that burns out quickly.

I think the Champaign yeast is a good idea. My only concern about switching to Champaign yeast is that it's availability locally is limited. Still it might be worth the postage. Using the fish tank water (adjust the pH with backing soda) certainly was. I will be trying Champaign yeast in the future. Let me know if you get to it first and what you think.
http://www.thegrape.net/browse.cfm/2,1223.html


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

^^...this is why using two bottles is a good idea. You set one going, then seven days later set the second one up. After another seven days, the first one is refilled, seven days later, the second and so on. This helps to keep some modicum of regularity in your tank, although, with DIY, you will always get fluctuating levels to some extent. I used an airline clamp to isolate the bottle being changed, so I didn't lose pressure from the one not being changed.


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

A check valve 5 or 6 inches up the line from the yeast bottle will give you the same effect as using an airline clamp. One of the peculiar traits of this hobby is sooner or later we all end up with boxes of stuff (check valves, clamps, extra diy bottles, etc.) taking up more and more space in the home.

One other thing, wine yeast might withstand the low pH caused by fermentation. If that's the cause of it's success, then adding baking soda every 4 days would be the cheap fix for extending the life of other yeasts.


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

...unless one considers a check valve just another place for gas leaks to occur... Sorry, I don't mean to sound terse, but I keep seeing people mention check valves in DIY app's, but I still see no reason why they are needed. Anyhoo.

As to the boxes of stuff...too late! I already have a 50litre plastic container full of bits and pieces that haven't seen use in moths...even years for some items, lol!

I think someone should start a spare parts thread and see which of us has the biggest pile of superfluous crap... Might even end up being a swap-meet thread. That'd be cool


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

lycaon said:


> Can anyone please tell me if i made the mixture concentrated enough or whatever else i may be doing wrong?





mikslik said:


> Tug- I have used tap water in my DIY 2 liters for 2 years and had no problems. I have to change out bottles every 1 to 1.5 weeks. Would I get more time out of the system if I dechlorinated?


I can't believe I allowed all the nay-sayers to get me to change my opinion about chlorine. So to revisit your question mikslik. Yes, chlorine bad, check valves good.

Have you seen Tara Nyberg's PowerPoint presentation about yeast for aquarium use? http://www.authorstream.com/present...tabolism-Why-as-Entertainment-ppt-powerpoint/
If you have Powerpoint, you can view the whole presentation. If you don't, it is below this.

How to live on the cheap --CO2
I have used yeast CO2 on tanks up to 180 gal. Also 75s, 65s etc.
2 gallons of yeast changed once every 3wks to month depending on the temperature works well. I don't rotate the bottles either.
The key to long lasting cultures is allowing them to grow and be happy. Also a little basic knowledge of yeast growth helps.

Yeast Growth/metabolism
Yeast can either produce energy by fermentation or oxidative phosphorylation (ox/phos)
Yeast greatly prefer fermentation over ox/phos and will not start ox/phos until all the sugars are converted to ethanol.
Ethanol is a good source of energy and in the presence of oxygen yeast use it up as well.
Fermentation also produces 2 CO2 molecules per molecule of sugar-- as a by product. =)

Why is just sugar and water not ideal?
When you just add sugar and water to yeast, they are essentially starving to death.
However the enzymes for converting sugar to ethanol are still in the cell and will work for a limited amount of time.
Since the cells do not have what they need to make new enzymes as cells starve/run out of enzymes the culture produces less and less CO2.

Also, we add too much sugar.
Ethanol and sugar are increasingly toxic to yeast at greater than 10% concentrations.
Therefore 2cups (~500ml) of sugar in 2L of water (~25% sugar) is unhealthy for the yeast.
It is also a waste of sugar because 10% sugar will yield roughly 10% Ethanol at which point the yeast stop growing anyway.
Special strains of yeast, like champaine and wine yeast, have stronger cell walls that protect them from the Ethanol -- so they grow longer.

Happy yeast give you long, productive cultures.
The solution is to give yeast less sugar and also supply them with the nutrients they need to grow.
This will give you a long lived culture that produces a consistent amount of CO2, (they are not challenged by toxic conditions at the beginning and end)
Also your yeast mass at the end will be alive and well and able to quickly start growing again when you add more sugar.

The Recipe!
Improvise at will, but here is a good start:
Use 1 cup sugar per 2L H20 (*tank water is great or dechlorinated tap *-- chlorine, but not ammonia, kill yeast. ) (they like ammonia)
Add 1-2 tsp of a protein drink mix
(optional) Add 1 tsp of ammonium sulfate, otherwise use 1 T mollasses. (or both)
1 tsp baking soda is also nice to keep the pH from crashing (they like it >pH3-4)
Leave yeast from previous mix in the bottom.

Benefits/conclusons
Growing yeast this way saves you time (less re-starting) and money on sugar and yeast.
The only real extra cost is the protein mix, but you can use really old/cheap stuff.
The key thing is that it has protein and vitamin/minerals, Anything that has "yeast extract" in it is perfect.
(Even non-fat powdered milk will do the trick, but it will smell funny)


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

tug said:


> I can't believe I allowed all the nay-sayers to get me to change my opinion about chlorine. So to revisit your question mikslik. Yes, chlorine bad, check valves good.


Sorry to be a nay-sayer (again, lol), and certainly not trying to stir up tensions, but I am still at a loss as to why check-valves are necessary for a DIY system...?


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

I think you know one reason for a CV, but decided to use an airline clip instead.


ghengis said:


> I used an airline clamp to isolate the bottle being changed, so I didn't lose pressure from the one not being changed.


Nice adaptation,
if you feel a check valve is overkill. There is something to be said for keeping it simple and since we know yeast likes tank water, a check valve wouldn't be required to keep water from entering the bottle of yeast culture.



ghengis said:


> ...unless one considers a check valve just another place for gas leaks to occur...


 What makes you think check valves are a place for gas leaks to occur? I've seen no evidence of this.

IME/IMO there is no drop in CO2 pressure because of the two CV's I use on my DIY. Depending on where you place the CV, they can also stop water from getting in the airline, preventing a yeast bloom in the line and a need to replace it. It might be overkill but for the small cost (a lot less then replacing the CO2 tubing) it does more good then any harm it might cause.

I do have two questions; I could use someone with experience for advice. It's never been clear to me the type of CO2 tubing claimed to be better then silicone for running CO2. Do you have an idea what that would be? And last question, does anyone know what's better then a roll of Duct tape?


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

tug said:


> I do have two questions; I could use someone with experience for advice. It's never been clear to me the type of CO2 tubing claimed to be better then silicone for running CO2. Do you have an idea what that would be? And last question, does anyone know what's better then a roll of Duct tape?


I have found some black rubber tubing, made by Dupla, that I use on my pressurised. Have had it running for 8 months, now, with no hardening or deteriation to speak of at all...which was something I had real issues with while running with the silicone.

As to the second Q... Ummm, TWO rolls of duct tape??


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