# ADA substrate question



## cousinkenni (Jan 24, 2005)

Anyone know how long the ADA substrates will keep lowering the GH and pH? At some point it has to stop doing this........ doesn't it?

Ken T.


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## jsenske (Mar 15, 2004)

I think by the time it "stops" in most cases the tank is well established/broken in and the natural lowering of those parameters that occurs in most all tanks balances it out or "assumes the role" if you will. Those numbers are always much lower for me on a really established or older tank (9-12 months +).

I will contact ADA about this as I am sure others would like their input on this topic- which has surfaced before. In fact, I just sent an inquiry about this and will post as soon as I get a reply.


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## cousinkenni (Jan 24, 2005)

Thank you very much Jeff!

Ken T.


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

I actually saw another hobbiest posted data showing the ADA substrate lowered KH, but slightly increased GH, both by about a deg:http://toninastyle.com/spring_2005.htm Also notice the lowering of ph and increasing of TDS. Anybody else measured before/after?

The lowering of kh/ph is expected, but the increase of GH/TDS is contrary to what I heard/read elsewhere.


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## jsenske (Mar 15, 2004)

Here's the reply from ADA: 
"The term for lowering pH and GH value depends upon how often you change the water, or add Brighty K. But it will not do it indefinitely. Maybe one month."

I personally don't even keep track of hardness levels, pH, CO2 or any of that (don't own any test kits). So I am afraid I can not comment too much on this. I just know my ADA substrate tanks are doing really awesome and are way out ahead in terms of health and vigor.


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

One month is the case for any aquatic substrate or soil or peat based substrate's effect on a water column.

By then, the bacteria have estblished a decent reducing environment on their own.

All aquatic sediments tend to neutral after 1-2 months after flooding.
I have several references for this.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## cousinkenni (Jan 24, 2005)

So Jeff and Tom,

Is it safe to say that the reason people are having good success with tonina species isn't due to the GH and pH lowering effects of the substrate? It is more likely due to the nutrients and other factors that these substrates provide?

The reason I ask (as Tom already knows) is that people keep telling me (and I read it on forums) that Tonina need really low GH to grow well and that it started to do great as soon as they started using the ADA substrates. I would like to try Tonina but am leary because of these posts.

Thanks for the replies guys  

Ken Takeuchi


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

Tonina sp. do not need low GH, but rather an acidic enviroment. If your substrate is acidic enough...i.e. aquasoil or something similar like flora base then they will do fine. I use my tap water in my aquasoil nano tank and it is 12 GH and not much less than that in the tank...maybe 10 GH. Both Tonina sp. 'belem' and Tonina sp. 'manaus' are growing great!


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

grandmasterofpool said:


> Tonina sp. do not need low GH, but rather an acidic enviroment. If your substrate is acidic enough...i.e. aquasoil or something similar like flora base then they will do fine. I use my tap water in my aquasoil nano tank and it is 12 GH and not much less than that in the tank...maybe 10 GH. Both Tonina sp. 'belem' and Tonina sp. 'manaus' are growing great!


How about KH? I thought low/moderate kh is also important. Can you have higher kh(>6) and crank up the CO2 to get low ph, and still get good growth from them?


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

Yes, I would imagine so, although my KH is admittedly low at 3 degrees. I have tried to grow the tonina in my tank with flourite substrate (same tap water) to no avail. Granted it's been awhile and my thumb has gotten greener since so perhaps I'll give it another go in the flourite.


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## cousinkenni (Jan 24, 2005)

So what type of pH are we talking here? Lower than 6.6?


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

Probably, my pH in my tank with the flourite used to hover around 6.4 with good CO2, now it seems to lower after maturing and is sometimes down to 6.0-6.2.


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## Macbrush (Mar 29, 2004)

I have switched to from Aquasoil to Flourite about a year ago, at the beginning, I kept my Toninas in a small pot with ADA Aquasoil just in case, at the same time, I planted a few stems in Flourite for experiement. The differences I found was minimal, the ones planted in Aquasoil are a little smaller and that's all. The tank parameter back then was KH = 2, GH < 1, and pH 6.4.

Now I am planting all my toninas in Flourite, and in recent 6 months, the water parameters have been changed, to KH =5.5, GH =4; the thing is my toninas are still thriving.

I have been planting Toninas for years, admittedly it does best with Aquasoil, but the most important factor is extremely high light, acidic water and penty of CO2.

Hope this helps.


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

I have them growing in Flourite, they grow inches per week and as mentioned by Macbrush, I see the same pattern.

Regards, 
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

A GH of 5 is still considered to be on the low side. I'm not saying Toninas cannot be cultivated in Flourite. I'm saying that it's the acidity that they love, wether it comes from the substrate itself or the water column.


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