# I laugh at green thread algae!



## TWood (Dec 9, 2004)

Just moved my 90 gallon (CO2, 2WPG, Inorganic ferts) to a new city (Kerrville, TX) with a new (to me) water supply. The older growth on the plants didn't like the change and died off, feeding a green thread algae outbreak. Just kept feeding them anyway, and they are making a good comeback. Sometimes you just have to push on through. Another week or so should do it. 

I found some interesting weathered limestone in the new backyard that has some sort of orange coloration, so I'm trying it out. Going for a minimalism thang, both in terms of display and maintenance...

TW


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## TWood (Dec 9, 2004)

*He who laughs first...*

Well, this is embarassing. The h. difformis keeps making a show of recovering but it is in a perpetual state of almost. I called the local water gurus and we have water with a KH of about 260 ppm (mg/liter?) and GH of about 300 ppm. Way hard. The only 'treatment' by the water supplier is the addition of some bleach. I think an RO unit is in our future...

TW


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

Lots of CO2 will make it grow.

You might consider adding white or slightly off white sand for the foreground.

That is sort of the look the limestone is giving you.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## TWood (Dec 9, 2004)

I set a bubble rate that was so fast I couldn't count them. Got the pH down to 6.8 in what is supposedly a 15 KH. No grow. I removed the limestone I'd found in the backyard because it grew a thick coat of green fur in 4 days. The fur bubbled nicely, but that's not what I wanted. 

I've since added some harder rocks found in the Medina river (still partly limestone but closer to flint) and some plants found there as well. What looks like a version of acorus, ludwigia, hydrocotlye verticillata (no notch in the leaves) and something that might be fontinallis. They were all covered in a gray-green limestone deposit so I figured they'd do well cleaned up and given lots of light, CO2 and ferts. Still a no grow. I'm on hold at a local store to buy several cases of distilled water, thinking I'll cut the tank water in half. Weird.

TW


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## Avalon (Mar 7, 2005)

You should be able to grow H. difformis easily. It may take some time to adjust, but it will grow, and it will grow like mad in water that hard. I have water that hard, and I can grow most anything. You will go through CO2 like crazy. I go through a 20# cylinder every 3 months (on 2 tanks=175g). I've found that a pH of 6.4-6.6 is adequate on a 24/7 basis, but most of the time I end up running 6.2 to keep minute amounts of BBA from growing/spreading. Don't worry about the CO2 chart--running over 150 ppm of CO2 is normal.  I know when I've set my levels right when I just begin to lose track of the bubbles when bubble counting. I wouldn't use Limestone rock, or rock with limestone either.


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

A KH of 15 and a pH of 6.2 is 284mg/l of CO2. No wonder you go through so much CO2!

A bit high don't you think? I don't think that the "high" CO2 level recommendation to stop BBA is supposed to be *that* high.  

But if it works and your fish are fine with that...


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## TWood (Dec 9, 2004)

Been shopping for RO units and discovered that they typically don't remove calcium, but they do remove sodium. Talked to the local Culligan man and was told that I'd need to use water softener softened water because the RO units do remove sodium. Water softeners work by replacing some of the calcium with sodium. What a twisted path. Ah well, we could use RO water at the sink anyway - these units look promising:

http://www.h2ofilter.net/product.asp?i=596

TW


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## chiahead (Dec 18, 2004)

Twood, R.O. units will remove everything in the water that is not pure H2O. If the Culligan man said it doesnt remove calcium then he is wrong. Thats the whole idea behind RO. Forcing water through a tight pored membrane and only pure water flows through. For an example, my tap water has a TDS of 500+ with very high calcium levels. After I run it through my RO unit, my TDS is around 10 or less with nothing in it, including 0 calcium. If your handy and think you can install these try out www.ebay.com. The unit I bought is an AquaSafe unit. 100 GPD 6 stage for close to $100

try here
http://cgi.ebay.com/100-GPD-Reverse...ryZ20758QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
good luck


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## TWood (Dec 9, 2004)

Huh, then why isn't calcium listed in the list of things that are removed? Talking about the GE systems sold at Home Depot/Lowes.

TW


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## chiahead (Dec 18, 2004)

Reverse Osmosis units will remove just about everything in the water. It has a harder time removing things that are not of size, like liquid chemicals. Thats why the RO units will also use carbon filters. Depending on how many stages on the unit you buy, it is usually set up similar to this:
1.Pre micron filter-removes larger particles that may damage the membrane
2.GAC or coconut-removes chlorine and chloramines I belive
3.Carbon block-removes a broad range of contaminates and some minerals
4.RO membrane-genarally processes the water to about 95-97% pure
5.DI filter to absorb items left over or hard to remove things(nitrates, chemicals, etc)
6.UV sterilizer-designed to kill almost all bacteria
7.Final carbon filter-genarally for taste but also a polishing filter

The above system is a 7 stage system and the most expensive. If you are serious about buying a RO unit I would not get one from Lowes or Home Depot. They are cheap and have much less stages. Where I live my water is horrible so I need all the extra stages. If your water is not so bad, then maybe you can get away with a cheaper one. Here is a website that has some info on how RO works.

http://www.water-filters-guide.com/reverse-osmosis.html

Hope this helps and good luck.

P.S. I still recomend Ebay, its cheaper and I can walk you through the install if need be!!!


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

chiahead is right. RO water is almost pure water. I get 5ppm TDS from RO, tap water 300 ppm TDS(150ppm GH). Mine is a cheap unit, does not have too many stages. I don't use it on my main tanks, only on some small tanks to play with water chemistry.


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## TWood (Dec 9, 2004)

Thanks All,

The basic installation looks simple enough but I'm wondering about that 3 gallon undercounter storage tank. Is there a way to temporarily bypass that so I can get a continuous flow into the aquarium? Mine is a 90 gallon and I'd like to cut the tapwater by 50%, so I need about 45 gallons of RO water to start. Then 20% water changes will use about 10 gallons. I guess the capacity of the unit will be determined by how much time I can get away with having a hose stretched through the house...

For a planted tank it seems to me that the DI stage is overkill, plus it adds a maintenance factor. True?

BTW, a side effect of trying to pump in large amounts of CO2 into this water was that it stressed the fish enough to induce an ich outbreak. Not too bad, and it's fading away on its own, but apparently not a good solution with fancy goldfish. If I cut this water in half with RO, I should get back close to Austin water, which worked fine for both plants and fish.

Thanks again for the help!

TW

EDIT: I'll also be installing the countertop faucet and the refrigerator extension, so the unit does have to work that way too.


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## chiahead (Dec 18, 2004)

Twood, u would want to use the storage tank. What is does is hold pure water for use with whatever u need it for. The way it works is inside the tank is a bellow filled with air. As the tanks fills it compresses the bellow inside the tank. When the tank gets full enough it sends enough backpressure to the automatic shutoff valve to stop the unit from filling. Also, the pressure inside the tank puts a backpressure to the RO membrane, creating a more efficient thourough filtering. If you just had the unit with no tank, the pressure coming out of the unit would be very little, not enough to power a refridgerator icemaker, and virtually useless for a faucet mount. You will want to use the tank for sure. When the tank empties, your pressure will be as slow as the RO unit can process the tap water. Which is pretty slow. I would recomend the highest gallon per day unit you can find(mine is 100 GPD). This gives you a rating on how quickly the unit can process water in a 24 hour period. This number will vary depending on a few factors. One being tap water pressure, the higher it is the faster the unit will work. Second being the amount of "stuff" in yor tap water, the unit will work slower with more "stuff" in it. 

If you dont plan to store the clean water in containers, it would take you all day long to get 45 gallons out of it. I personally use those 5 gallon water company bottles. I fill 8 of them throughout the week and then do a water change on Saturdays. Even getting 10 gallons will take you quite some time. Remember that for every gallon of pure water it will take anywhere from 2-5 gallons of tap to get it(depending on how dirty the tap is). The rest is flushed down the drain.

As far as the DI. This comes in 2 forms. Either in a clear housing with a powder style resin in it, or in changeable sealed filter housings. I prefer the clear housings because when the DI is getting exhausted it will change colors. There has been some negative speculation on using DI with aquariums, but I use it and I know others who do also with no negative aspects. That will be up to you.

As afr as the goldfish, I think they prefer harder more alkaline water. Using them in a planted/Co2 tank with RO may not be the best choice. If it was ich, then it prob wont just fade away on its own. Maybe u had some fin rot or something. Everytime I had even a speck of ich it exploded very shortly.

If you do plan on powering the Refridgerator, definetely get a 100 GPD unit or close to it. I am an appliance repair technician and I see this issue almost everyday. They install an RO unit that is rated for 24 GPD and the flow is just way too low for the fridge to make proper ice cubes, and it will break the icemaker eventually. 

I do this stuff for a living everyday just to let you know. I just dont want you to think this is just a personal experience or what someone told me. If you want I can talk to you on the phone. Just PM me and I will give you a call.


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

My setup is very simple. The RO unit is connected to the faucet outside my garage. I use a 30 gallon plastic storage tank inside the garage. I fill the tank once a week on saturday, manual shutoff. Sometime I get a bit runoff if I forget to shut it off on time, no big deal. I guess I can use a simple machanical timer on the faucet if I can estimate how long it takes to refill.


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## TWood (Dec 9, 2004)

I'll be using the little storage tank, I understand how it provides pressure. But can I add a tee fitting and ball valve that bypasses the storage tank so I can run an RO water supply line directly to the aquarium? A larger storage container isn't an option because of how the house is set up. Is the back-pressure from the small storage tank really a necessity in order to make the RO membrane work properly?

I've had goldfish for a while in this tank before this move and they did fine. I think it's the jacking around with the water that's bugging them now. Once it's settled in they will be okay. 

If I buy from that eBay source, I'll probably replace the DI with a different filter, too bad they don't seem to offer that as an option.

Thanks,

TW

chia: I appreciate the offer for a phone consultation, but I think others will benefit from this discussion here.


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## chiahead (Dec 18, 2004)

Liek I stated earlier, if you bypass the storage tank to fill the aquarium it will run very slowly. If you leave it then you will have stronger pressure to fill the aquarium and then when it gets empty, it will return to work asd fast as the RO unit can handle. You wouldnt want to tee off the line going to the storage tank. You would tee off the line going to the faucet tap(or icemaker line-same line) and put the shut off ball valve there. Actually if you plan to run a faucet tap, a fridge hook up, and an extra tubing just for the aquarium, you will need to tee the line twice. This is how I have mine. It doesnt matter how many times you split the output line, but you will probably have to purchase the extra tee's. If you dont want to use the DI just dont put it on the unit. You dont have to hook it up inline. Just let me know if you need any more help.


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## TWood (Dec 9, 2004)

Got it, I understand what you are saying now. That's how I'll hook it up. Looking forward to drilling into stainless steel at the sink, but other than that it should go easy.

I bought this one, and I'll add the box of replacement filters:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4401747802

With a KH of about 260 mg/liter (15 KH) and GH of about 300 ppm out of the tap, I'm thinking of a 2:1 mix of RO:tapwater to cut those numbers to a third, 5 KH and 100 ppm GH.

What kind of tubing/fittings am I asking for when I buy the extra tees and tubing?

Thanks,

TW


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## chiahead (Dec 18, 2004)

Thats a good unit. Same one I have minus my DI filter. Same company also. Only thing I had trouble getting was install instructions. No biggie for me but for you it may be. The company is in Canada and I ended up getting some instructions via email, which also was no big deal. If you own a drill and a hole saw set the hole in the sink is also no big deal. Just dont use a wood fan bit(lol). The tee connectors u just get from Home Depot, just regular 1/4" water line tee's. If you ask for help just ask for icemaker water line tee's. Good luck and let me know when you go to install. You may need a hand there.


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