# Old amazonia is crap!



## ddavila06

just like that...my tank has not stopped looking dirty and muddy nonstop, no matter how much i syphon out of the substrate within days it looks the same. and the same happens to some folks with the new stuff i see....how disapointing for such expensive thing...


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## dabrybry

Agreed, I'm having the same problem with the New! Amazonia. Pretty disappointing at ~$25 a bag. I also haven't received a response from my email informing them of this problem which is even more frustrating. I hate to ask this but can anyone recommend a good inorganic substrate to use? I think I'm done using anything similar to aquasoil


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## niko

Get inert filter gravel sand or if you really have to have a black substrate find 3M quartz.

Use that as a cap over 1/2" of peat from Home Depot. The one without fertilizers in it.

In 4 months you will have a perfect acidic substrate. The peat will fizzle out the first week but it will provide acidity to the roots until it turns to nothing. Basically what AquaSoil does from Day 1 and what no other commercial substrate provides. But after some time all substrates are the same.

Also add a some activated carbon mixed with the peat. It helps with clarity initially and later serves as a place where bacteria lives.

Iron containing additive (Laterite or other) - if you wish. Can be injected later around the roots of plants that have to have it.

In all that be wise about what other practices are employed by the Japanese. Don't let the stupid experience with the engineered "natural" substrate make you deny many other things that the Japanese do right. Or you can chose to run your tank the way many peope do - disregarding simple, proven things and getting into many exciting discussions about the same problems. 

--Nikolay


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## ddavila06

im waiting for my nannacara fry to come out and get bigger already to take everything out and start it again with eco complete flora max mix which i have excelent results with. i just wanted an acidic emvironment for my nannacara to breed and grow more confortable, thats the only reason i bought it. =(


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## JustLikeAPill

You aren't supposed to siphon it out or disturb it... it's pretty fragile. I havn't had any problems with it because I don't mess with it other than planting.


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## ddavila06

if i dont syphon it looks like crap! is so ugly and dirty looking... i just wanted everyone (and hopefully adg too) to know my experience.


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## JustLikeAPill

Sorry you had that problem.. I use Amazonia I and it's great stuff as long as I am gentle with it. It sounds like yours is breaking down faster than is normal. In the meantime, siphoning it more will make things worse unfortunately  

Are you using I or II? II was really bad about breaking down. I am surprised if you are using I and that is still happening.


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## ddavila06

dont know which one im using. i bought it through group buy with gwapa folks. oh well, now i know how much better the other stuff i use it is =D


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## Muirner

You know. I didnt realize how much it was going to drop my PH...


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## Reef2plants

MTS or Organic Potting soil are way better and much cheaper alternatives that last longer anyways.


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## ddavila06

yeah, i changed to my old friend flora max black and eco. i switched to tr it out since there was so much talk about it but honestly, if you can not do easy water changes (without splashin) and replant as needed, or change plants often (because the crap gets disturbed and releases ammonia) and so many other cons then is not worth it. there is no fun and makes the hobbie les enjoyable....


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## lanceduffy

Things I have used to grow plants and their pros/cons:

-Inert aquarium gravel fortified with flourish tabs and clay balls - grew plants well once I got it figured out. The first step was to build up enough mulm deep in the substrate, this took time, maybe a year's time, during that period I had to dose EI. After I got enough mulm established and the right amount of flourish tabs and clay under there. I dosed mostly potassium, traces and iron. I grew whatever I wanted. This tank ran for 2 years.

-Eco Complete - didn't like it. too light to gravel vac. raised my already kinda-high KH. Dosed EI and still had limited success with the plants. I gave it two months and when it still raised my KH after that period, I tore it down.

-Amazonia II - went with this over Amazonia 1 because I have a kinda high KH and it was suggested because Amazonia 1 has a little problem with water staying cloudy when the KH is high. I liked the initial planting, I used an ADA document as a guide to how to plant and get setup. I liked the break-in period because it was pretty well described by their product literature, "this is what's going to happen at this step, this is what we want you to do...". I followed the directions. It has been working wonderfully, I dose potassium, iron and trace. I have a GIANT fern so every once-in-awhile I hit it with some extra phosphate. It has lowered my PH and KH as advertised. I have been able to grow whatever plant I want.
I tore down the layout at 1 year and was scared of all the mud and junk that got kicked up. Immediately, I moved all my fishes to another tank, drained the water, sucking up as much of the cloud as I could and pulled out the rest of the plants with almost no water in the tank. I reestablished a slope and approached rearranging the layout like I was doing a new planting - semi-moist substrate, arrange hardscape, plant everything and fill with water. I was sure to run my canister on another tank during this lengthy period so that I didn't loose the bacterial colony. I hooked the filter back up and immediately did a water change. Over the next few days, I did some water changes and tested the water. After things had calmed down, 3 days or so, in went the fishes. I have had Amazonia 2 for 2 years and have set up 3 layouts in the same substrate with the above process.

In the end, my favorite substrate of the ones I've used is the Amazonia 2. Due to the scary clouds of brown mud that get stirred up, I do not micro-manage my scapes. I think about them for months ahead of time and plant intentionally. After they are planed I let them alone, watch the plants fill in and prune as needed. I have learned more about growing plants and aquascaping because I plant, leave it alone and observe. Without the soil-like nature of the ADA product and the consequences of disturbing it, I would not have discovered the joys of scaping by this method. I don't gravel vac it, and I do wish it stayed together a little better, but this is the way things are and I am happy. For me it has made the hobby more enjoyable. I will be trying the "New" Amazonia for my next project.


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## jciotti

...


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## lanceduffy

Yes, I should have noted. My amazonia 2 tank is crystal clear. The only media in my canister is lava rock for bio filtration.


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## lanceduffy

jciotti, please put that pic back up!


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## jciotti

lanceduffy said:


> jciotti, please put that pic back up!


I didn't want to start an argument by putting the pic up and people thinking I was bragging.

This is my current layout with "NEW" Amazonia, I've done literally hundreds of aquariums in my career and I've used probably more then 1,000 lbs of AS in all types. I've NEVER had a single tank become dirty or cloudy if the AS was used correctly since the day it hit the market.

I believe telling people that this soil is bad is a dis service to all hobbyists, someone might actually believe this and not try the product. If you really don't think that you can have clear water with AS, please come by and check out my aquariums, I guaranty you won't be able to tell their is water in them.















If you have any questions on how to properly set up a planted aquarium and keep it clear feel free to message me.


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## sampster5000

You are not the only one who has had this problem with Aquasoil. It is a big problem and has been for a very long time now as well as the problem that the pellets lose their natural dirt color after a short period of time. The New Aquasoil is supposed to be much better than the first. You should not siphon the soil as this restarts the timer on when the clouding stops. You want it to settle. Siphoning will stir it up again.

There ARE other substrates that act like Aquasoil. Strangely, I have found that Aquasoil is the cheapest.

1. Fluval Shrimp Stratum. This will have the same effect and is a lot more popular right now than Aquasoil as users say it does not cloud their tank at all.

2. AZOO Plant Grower Bed. Again, costs more, but is said to not only have no ammonia leeching but is supposed to clear up the water instead of clouding it.

Even though there are still problems, I HAVE seen a lot of positive feedback on the new amazonia. Stop stirring it up and see what happens after a few days


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## jciotti

sampster5000 said:


> 2. AZOO Plant Grower Bed. Again, costs more, but is said to not only have no ammonia leeching but is supposed to clear up the water instead of clouding it.


I hate to point this out but AZOO Plant Grower Bed is nearly the same as AS and comes from the same EXACT factory.


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## jciotti

...


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## Glaucus

Crap is good.


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## thekid92sho

After a few cycles it cleared up for me.


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## ddavila06

lol, i have pretty good growth on the new stuff i got. floramax black which is more black with red speckles. not happy with my plant choice but i can do what i couldnt with amazonia, take out as i need and replant/change without clouding up the tank nor worrying about an ammonia spike nor anything else... =)


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## john borr

I use their decorative sand over their ADA soil and this helps with the cloudiness, I use their decorative sand and this sand, not surprisingly, has some very fine particles that helps to keep some of the ADA aqua soil murkiness at bay. My personal theory is that the murkiness is worse when you don't cap the ADA soil, when your filter output is strong and points downward toward the gravel and your source water is very soft to begin with, admittedly I am speculating here.


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## niko

I've seen AquaSoil make a mess of the aquarium water for months on end. But anything taken out of context will create a problem. Look at this tank:

https://picasaweb.google.com/ddasega/DaveS#

The guy placed about 2-1/2" layer of AquaSoil in the tank. Quite a few bags. His plants grew REALLY good, but the water always had a slight tea-color to it even months after setup and lots of filtration.

Now look at what Amano has been showing for several years now:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/.../79486-adas-low-tech-approach.html#post598675

That "white sand-densely planted area" layout is what Amano has been showing over and over again at his demonstrations. The message should be clear - you do not need to cover the entire bottom of the tank with AquaSoil. Of course if you want you can but be aware of the challenges with that. And deal with them accordingly.

Some batches of AquaSoil have been not so good, that's true. But my point is - before using the best commercial aquatic plant substrate you need to learn about its suggested use. And also - how exactly it functions. Plant would grow either way, but one can save themselves a lot of frustration, effort, and time if they know what they are dealing with.

--Nikolay


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## totziens

Here are some comments about ADA Amazonia shared among my friends:

1. Amazonia 1 (heard from friends)
Advantage: does not disintegrate as easily as Amazonia 2
Disadvantage: cloudy water during initial setup

2. Amazonia 2 (personal experience)
Advantage: Almost no cloudy water during initial setup
Disadvantage: Will disintegrate after less than 6 months

3. The latest new Amazonia (personal experience)
Advantage: No cloudy water during initial setup and I heard it does not disintegrate as easily as Amazonia 2
Disadvantage: None that I know of so far


I personally think Amazonia 2 is crap and not worth the money spent on it.


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## NatureAquariumGarden

totziens said:


> Here are some comments about ADA Amazonia shared among my friends:
> 
> 1. Amazonia 1 (heard from friends)
> Advantage: does not disintegrate as easily as Amazonia 2
> Disadvantage: cloudy water during initial setup
> 
> 2. Amazonia 2 (personal experience)
> Advantage: Almost no cloudy water during initial setup
> Disadvantage: Will disintegrate after less than 6 months
> 
> 3. The latest new Amazonia (personal experience)
> Advantage: No cloudy water during initial setup and I heard it does not disintegrate as easily as Amazonia 2
> Disadvantage: None that I know of so far
> 
> I personally think Amazonia 2 is crap and not worth the money spent on it.


Here's my opinion.

1. Amazonia I, The best soil I've ever used. There are some problems with the water color, on initial setup. There are some problems with algae on the initial setup if pH is not lower than 6-6.3. For some time Amazonia I is lowering KH to 1-2 and pH. It has the most nutritions. Color of the soil is much better than Amazonia II

2. Amazonia II Because it has less nutritions than Amazonia I, there are no problems at initial setup. Better ability to lower KH and pH than Amazonia II.

3. New Amazonia. No problems with watre color. ADA says that it has twice more nutritions than Amazonia, but most of people says that, on Amazonia I they did use Special Lights after 6 months, on New Amazonia they had to start it on the second month.

In my opinion and most of my friends, Amazonia I is the best of Aquasoil.

Please don't say that Amazonia is expensive, some people in some countries have to pay $40 for a bag


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## rod

Amazonia might be the best but try finding it around the midwest, can't be done. Is this their way of keeping the price up?


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## NatureAquariumGarden

In my country, almost all people, are buying amazonia over the internet.


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## 954baby

I have a 29 gallon that has amazonia 2 in it. The tank had been up for 3 years and since day 1 I've never had an issue, not even a single spec of algae ever. The water is super clear still. I noticed a few months ago that its pretty much time to redo the substrate as it has began to breakdown, I attribute this to my psychotic fish, it is constantly getting spooked and stirring up the foreground. My water never gets cloudy, even when the fish stores up the tank just debris will circulate no cloudy water is created. My fish is about 5" long too, so he really stirs **** up. I will say I never once in my aquariums life did I really uproot plants, I started with java ferns, anubias nana petite and dwarf sags. I'm at full capacity and everything is healthy. I did use powersand special. I think it helps with clarity. Now on the other hand I use the same amazonia 2 with my emersed crypts and I have a ton, like 1,000+. The amazonia 2 was less efficient with my crypts. It broke down faster and was kind of a pain with respect to growing mold and fungus. I recently purchased 10 bags of Amazonia 'new' and my crypts are loving it. I really like the black color and can't wait to get it in my tank. Not everyone has a bad experience with Aquasoil. Be gentle with it.


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## Eugene

Did not used amasonia 1.

Used amasonia 2. Substrate is completely "dead" in about 2 years.

Would not use anything like them. Best thing - natural gravel or sand with some ground near the bottom.


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## Shad0w

I'm curious on new Amazonia composition. The old ADA Amazonia, when I crush the soil with my finger, it feel sticky like clay. ADA New Amazonia on the other hand, just crush to fine black sand. Does it mean old ADA amzonia have better CEC (Cation-Exchange Capacity)?


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## James0816

This is funny as I'm actually in process of breaking down an AS tank. Like the OP mentioned, it's just a mess. The dirt part of things is basically all on top making an utter mess of the tank.

I'm curious if I can pull everything out and give it a gentle rinsing to get the "mud" part of it serperated and put back in just the granuals. But...that's just a thought. I plan on nixing it anyway.


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## Skelley

I am curious about the same thing James0816. My Amazonia has been great. I did many washing and ran the filter for a week or two to get rid of the ammonia before even thinking about putting plants in. I haven't had any problems with cloudiness since. I can see it breaking down a tiny bit underneath my HG carpet after being in place for about a year. I rent my house, so it is inevitable that I will move at some point. I am dreading this immensely. Even if I get the 35g empty of all but the couple inches of AS I have, down the stairs and safely to a new place, the ammonia spikes and likely muck makes me want to start from scratch. Though I would deal with the ammonia with the new stuff anyways, at least I could take a couple weeks beforehand to prepare it without the muck factor. Pricey restart though.


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