# [Wet Thumb Forum]-soil substrate has given me a muddy tank



## superjohnny (Jul 31, 2004)

Hey guys I need some advice.

I added about 1" of wet potting soil (mud basically) and put ~1" of gravel over the top and now have a mud pit. Over the first couple of days I used a net to take away the wood particles that had risen to the top and I've been waiting for the tank to clear up, but after a week it's still mud brown.

What's the key to success for setting up a soil substrate tank? I'm afraid to turn on the filter because any stirring of the water causes more mud. Any advice?


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## superjohnny (Jul 31, 2004)

Hey guys I need some advice.

I added about 1" of wet potting soil (mud basically) and put ~1" of gravel over the top and now have a mud pit. Over the first couple of days I used a net to take away the wood particles that had risen to the top and I've been waiting for the tank to clear up, but after a week it's still mud brown.

What's the key to success for setting up a soil substrate tank? I'm afraid to turn on the filter because any stirring of the water causes more mud. Any advice?


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## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

You should top off the tank with water until you couldn't see its line. Turn on filter and adjust its current to the lowest setting. The discoloration will go away with the activated carbon. After a day or two everything should clear up. From what you wrote, I don't think you did anything wrong. Leaching from soil is a normal part of the set-up. You did also add gravel to cover the soil. So there is nothing more you can add at this point; don't worry. Do avoid pouring water too hard or shake the tank in any way. Just be patient and things will work out.

Paul


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## superjohnny (Jul 31, 2004)

I'll give that a try. Thanks Sur


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

> Originally posted by superjohnny:
> Hey guys I need some advice.
> 
> I added about 1" of wet potting soil (mud basically) and put ~1" of gravel over the top and now have a mud pit. Over the first couple of days I used a net to take away the wood particles that had risen to the top and I've been waiting for the tank to clear up, but after a week it's still mud brown.
> ...


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

hey, i found miracle gro garden soil that contains peat, manure, and other organic stuff in a NPK ratio of 10 5 10. is this okay to use?


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## Chris J (Oct 7, 2003)

Actually, what you should have done was put sand on top of the soil when it was dry and put some gravel ontop of that. The sand will keep the mud from entering the water column, adn the gravel is for aesthetic reasons...

Just my 2 cents....


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## superjohnny (Jul 31, 2004)

See that's what I get for not closely following directions. I added mud to the tank... not dry soil. The good news is that I have a ton of soil & gravel to work with so starting over won't be a problem. I'll clean up my mess and give it another go.

Diana it's not tanins in the water, it's soil. I've had "tea" water before so I'm sure it's the soil.

Is sand a good/bad or unnecessary idea like Chris suggests? Wouldn't it just mix with the soil? I'm a little hesitant to take advice from an Avril Lavigne fan


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## superjohnny (Jul 31, 2004)

Boy what a mess that was. I tried to get most of the water with a python, then use a spade to take out as much solid material as I could, then I used two vacuum's pumping water out, and a hose pumping water in. After a while there was barely any left so i just picked the tank up and dumped it out.

Then a fresh layer of soil, a fresh layer of gravel and some water and I'm all set. Got two filters running in it right now clearing up the last of the wood chips.

Now to order a nice light from AH supply, some wood from Home Depot and a selection of crypts from Robert.

Thanks for the help everyone, i'll keep you up on it's progress.

Regards,
Johnny


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Dear Johnny,

I'm glad to hear that you didn't use a sand layer over the soil. In my opinion, that's not a good way to address turbidity. 

Explanation: a sand layer restricts water circulation, and therefore, oxygen penetration into substrate. Soil bacteria need some oxygen to decompose fishfood into plant nutrients and CO2, nitrify, and all the wonderful processes that aerobic bacteria do. 

I never had much luck growing plants when I used sand to cover the soil. 

To investigate turbidity you describe, I once REMOVED the gravel from an established tank and tank did fine (was not turbid and plants grew well). I think this is due to the soil bacteria growing and making their little sticky biofilms. These biofilms will bind the clay particles together and decrease the soil's tendency to cause the gross turbidity you saw. The soil you add to your tank will change over time.

Good luck and let us know how this tank does.


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## Nillo (Jun 11, 2005)

Diana, I find your experience with sand interesting. I have always had a lot of success with sand covered tanks. I have noticed however that the plants grow better with washed sand as opposed to unwashed sand. That may be a factor of circulation restriction. 

On a similar note, I have found decomposed granite to work and look good in tanks.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Hello,

I've set up several gravel-over-wet-soil tanks and I have yet to have the muddy water problem
that Johnny describes, knock on something.

I soak my soil for a week or so, stirring it and changing the water several times. This gets rid of the sticks and other large pieces that might cause problems in the substrate later.

I add that soil to the tank to a depth on an inch and add a one inch of 2mm - 3 mm gravel over it. I add the first water by siphoning it through airline tubing aimed at a plastic dish on the bottom. Doing it this way, no soil gets into the water column.

If I did get muddy water, I'd filter it through polyester fiber, with the discharge of the filter aimed at the plastic dish or something similar, to avoid distrupting the substrate.

Miracle Grow works but it hardens the water and makes it quite alkaline.

Sand? To paraphase a noted American president, "It depends on what your definition of sand is." 2mm - 3mm gravel allows better circulation and is easier for roots to penetrate than does the fine "playbox" sand. But some report success with the latter.

Good luck!

Bill


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## superjohnny (Jul 31, 2004)

Ok now it looks like I have the tea colored water. I do not believe this to be mud, but tanins. Looks like English Breakfast tea. I put some carbon in the filter & did a 35% water change.

I put a super large Java Fern in there (30+ leaves), but I doubt that'll do anything.

Hmmmmmm


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## superjohnny (Jul 31, 2004)

Added a large ozelot sward and 4-5 smaller java ferns. The reason I'm doing all this is because I have a pair of angels that have paired up and are picking on the two other angels. I'd like to provide a nice place for them to spawn. 

Any info on spawning "junk" angel fish?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Please, there are no "junk" Angel Fish. We are talking about our pets-- ratings do not apply. In my opinion, even the most "common" Angel Fish is magnificent.

That would be wonderful if your Angel Fish spawned. I'm sure that they love the tannins and tea-colored water.


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## imported_Lori (Mar 6, 2004)

Superjohnny,
I had the same tea colored water in my 10 gal for about a month. I have had the tank up and running for a month and a half. So....
It will take time for that tea color to fade but I believe it will for you.
My substrate is soil and pea gravel.

Good luck.


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