# Beginner looking for advice. Does this strategy look balanced?



## roland6543 (Sep 18, 2012)

My goal is to keep a lowish light tank (1.3w/g) with DIY CO2. I want the plants to look good, and since its a hobby, I like the maintenance aspect, so I don’t mind too much trimming, tweaking, etc. 

Tank
75G. Rena XP3 filter. Magnum HOT 250 filter. Gravel substrate. 34W T8 5000K 4 hr's/day + 68W T8 6500K 8 hrs/day. 2 Air bubblers running from lights out to 2 hours before lights on. 
DIY CO2 currently with 4 x 2L bottles running, the oldest bottle changed each week. CO2 diffusion is via the inlet of the HOT filter which seems to do a fair job of chopping the bubbles up.
My spraybay from the XP3 is divided: 1 bar runs from the top left of the tank a cross its surface. The other runs along the back of the tank bottom, directed up and forward toward the front. Since its a big spraybar, with many holes, flow is gentle with gentle plant movement, and soft surface ripple. 

Plants
A couple of bunches of Riccia, Java Fern, Java Moss – attached to rock/wood. Vals, Cabomba, Rotala, Crypt willissii, Amazon Sword, HC and some other plants I don't know the names.

Fish
Mostly corys and rainbowfish, and a few loaches, dwarf cichlids, rasboras. I think the point is that it is well stocked community tank. Possible slightly overstocked.

Current Issues
I have some BGA on my lower spray bar, and staghorn (I think) on the crypts, amazon sword and some stem plants. I'm trying to control with weekly trimming and normal daily dose of excel.

Fert Dosing
50% WC weekly.
7.5mL Excel (actually the API CO2) daily.
7.5 mL Seachem Flourish Comprehensive 3 times week.
CSM+B 1/8t 3 times week.
Ca(NO3)2 1/4t 3 times week
KH2PO4 1/16t 3 times week
K2SO4 1/2t 3 times week
MgSO4 1t 3 times week
Osmocote root caps in vicinity of Vals, Crypts and Amazon Sword. 
I reduced the dose of Nitrates because they were running about 80 at the end of week 2. I also decreased phosphates assuming that I was getting quite a lot of nitrates and phosphates from feeding.

Please tell me if something looks unbalanced with this setup.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

*1. You are overdosing the fertilizers severly. * 
The fact that most people do that does not make it right. Take a hint from the way ADA fertilizes their tanks - it starts about month 3 and VERY light. So light that the N and P in the water are inreadable. But the source of N and other stuff in the substrate is unlimited. This is a trick to starve the algae and provide the plants with food. Compare with dumping chemical after chemical in your water.

*2. Learn about the Redfield Ratio.* 
That's the basic knowledge you got to have.

*--A.* Note that the ratio does not need to be in 1 or 5 or 10 ppm. Low numbers give you more control should algae appears. P=1 and N=10 in the water is the stupidest idea we have all embraced.

*--B.* Look at the table. See how easy it is to be over or under the proper ratio? Remember that. This is the source of all problems with overfertilizing the water like you and many others do.
http://buddendo.home.xs4all.nl/aquarium/redfield_eng.htm

*3. Fix your filter volume.*
The "big" canister you are using is not big at all. It's rather pathetic and small, no personal offense. We all fall for that "big filter" thing. You cannot buy a good size filter. Only way is to use more than one.
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/filtration

*4. Fix your water flow pattern.*
The way you have it if you were a piece of something inside your tank you will stay suspended forever in some parts of the tank. Never sucked in by the intake. These suspended particles do many bad things to your aquarium. Your flow pattern needs to be simple - a continous flow from outtake to intake. None of this cross pattern kind of thing.
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/filtration


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## roland6543 (Sep 18, 2012)

Niko, thanks for offering advice. It wasn't quite the advice I expected since on so many sites the EI strategy us to just make a start, then adjust.and the amount of my chemicals had already been adjusted to the lower side of EI.

1a). I realise that I may be overdosing, N and P, but something doesn't make sense. The calculator suggests I'm dosing very little nitrates yet my nitrates rise dramatically by the end of the week. Should I do these 2 things: 1) stop N dosing this week entirely, and test the natural levels after a week 2) test my ferts for ammonia - if substantial, I have may have bought poor quality ferts and my biological filter is converting ammonia contaminants to even more nitrates. 3) cross check accuracy of my calculator with another calculator. I'm using calcium nitrate in Canada.
1b) I don't have a kit for P. I'm running blind. I need to find a kit quickly.
1a and 1b will influence my decreased dose of N and P next week. If I cant get a P kit or find high levels, and/or find an issue with Ammonia conc in my ferts. I may stop dosing until these two until WC bring them a under control.

2 Redmond ratio makes interesting reading although I have noticed some sites believes that it doesn't apply to freshwater tanks. Anyway I think I first need to get a handle of what approx correct levels I have of N and P after water changes, then target the right ratio based relative to a more appropriate and lover level of N to begin with. ( also after figuring out if a have an ammonia contamination going on.

3 That's all the filter I have for now regarding capacity. It does include 2 power filters. I'll clean out the one sponge prefilter in siphoned tank water today to see if that improved flow a bit. The second filter is also my co2 nebulizer.

4. Water Flow. I'll remove the lower back to front spray bar entirely. Then have flow going from spray bar top left to return, at bottom right. Rigging the second filter with Co2 so that it also outlets from the same end and returns to the approximate same other end of tank may require modification somewhere. To be honest, I am concerned about blowing to top of the tank around a bit, affecting my floating riccia, some stem plants, and the large amazon sword. Won't they be blowing away since the top spray bar will be 3 times stronger.

Until I've figured out where I stand with N and P I'll continue to dose with micros and excel, and run 4 2L DIY CO2, and light as described.

Comments?


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

How old is your tank? Low light + CO2 is really easy, man. Just let it chill out and don't expect rapid growth.

I don't use biomedia or much mechanical filtration in my tanks, fwiw. I think Walstad was right that plants will uptake ammonia anyway, and I think export of the water column/plant mass is the best filtration ever. But a low light tank a) needs time and b) will be picky. I'm more concerned with getting the nutrients (includes CO2) around.

Anyway, FWIW I would not be surprised if the Ricca and Rotala and HC and Cabomba don't look good. I would not be surprised if the Javas and Crypts take foooooorrrrreeeeevvvveeer to grow and look good. I'd think about stuff like Dwarf Sag and Water Sprite and many more Crypts and giving the Vals some room and current to spread out and stay clean. Go all in for an easy tank. That'd be a cool tank.


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## roland6543 (Sep 18, 2012)

Hey wet,
Thanks for your comments. Sounds like you understand the kind of tank I'm targetting. 

My tanks 4 months old. Actually the floating riccia looks really good and those that I have netted to a large rock near the surface looks good too. The cabomba grows an inch a day so looks leggy so I'm using it against the back of the tank. Amazon sword is beautiful. Crypts slow but good. HC OK but a bit leggy. Got a few others that look really nice - I need to find out their names.

How do you fert your low light tanks? I'd like a nice look but a little easier than my current saga. It feels like I'm lost in no mans land. In other words using EI but dont know how to adjust it for low light. 

Any advice very welcome.


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

Nice!

I think you should dose to target, then do it more often as light goes up. If you use http://calc.petalphile.com and pick the EI low light dosing, that's my dosing when my tank was low light, 1-2 times a week (I'd skip about a dose per month), and 50-70% pwc weekly (I like big water changes). That tank grew fine but just wasn't right for me.

So what's wrong with your tank?


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## roland6543 (Sep 18, 2012)

I'm getting some horrible hairy algae, staghorn I think, and some green spot algae. Its the staghorn that's bothering me. Also, the nitrates weren't this high before dosing/planting, so somethings out of balance. I don't have a phosphate kit so I'm running blind on that. This week I've excluded P and N dosing to see what happens to the nitrates. I'm starting the week on 20 nitrates after a WC. I also gave the filter a good clean.


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## roland6543 (Sep 18, 2012)

I've cleaned the filter, and adjusted the flow pattern. My spray bar is only on left side of tank, the intake on the far right back. Flow intended to be left to right. One spray bar points slightly up, the second bar against the glass pointed slightly down. 

My ferts have been adjusted to:
50-70% WC weekly.
7.5mL Excel (actually the API CO2) daily.
4 mL Seachem Flourish Comprehensive 3 times week.
CSM+B 1/16t 3 times week.
Ca(NO3)2 none
KH2PO4 none
K2SO4 1/2t 3 times week
MgSO4 1/2t 3 times week
Osmocote root caps in vicinity of Vals, Crypts and Amazon Sword.

Target ppms per dose:
Fe 0.1ppm
NO3 0ppm - tank is currently 20ppm. To be monitored.
PO4 0ppm - assuming I'm getting enough from food. Will test when I get kit.
K 5ppm
Mg 1ppm


Will be checking this against petalphile today.


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## roland6543 (Sep 18, 2012)

Reading, reading, reading..... moved the filters again to try and get a U type flow pattern. Across the top and returning countercurrent a cross the bottom. Thanks Niko. Only thing is, now that theres a stronger flow across the top, my rather leggy cabomba are all leaning to one side of the tank. Its going to give me vertigo - doesn't took good.

Phosphates are 0.5-1.0 Looks like I'll have to add some. The rest of the doses look OK based upon petalphile. I'll probably have to add some nitrates once things settle.

Based upon pH of 6.6 and kH of 6, my DIY CO2 is 45!!! Is that even possible?


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

Hey roland6543,

This sounds pretty good, but you've got to clean out that algae from the tank, too. If any of the algae is on leaves, you can try to rub it off or just trim off the leaves if its an otherwise healthy plant. While your tank approaches a balance, there's been moments in those four months where the algae clearly out competed the plants. Help out the plants before moving forward.

Massive water change(s) after the above is critical: you need to get that algae out of the water column so it doesn't just attach elsewhere. This will also reset your tank so you can go back to a regular dosing schedule and not care about week-to-week variances so much.

And maybe that's the thing about a strategy and balance in a tank: its not really about chasing a number as much as it is about tending your garden. Futz with the algae. Clean leaves and trim out the ones you can't save. Don't let the plants worry about the problem spots: let them work on new growth. Use the dosing and water change and CO2 maintenance as part of the schedule (so make it easy), then spend the quality time with your hands in the tank messing with stuff. This will also affect your algae. 

The pH/KH/CO2 chart has been shown to only work with tanks that fit certain conditions (no other buffers in the water column), by the way, and the usefulness and accuracy of test kits (even vs the time to calibrate kits) is debatable. Since you have staghorn, I doubt you have awesome CO2. That your HC and Ricca are growing alright says your CO2 isn't terrible, but it sounds like they could be better. (HC and Riccia takes a while to establish but then starts growing pretty quickly and densely.) Working on getting the CO2 to problem spots will only help.

Hope this helps. Think of it more as a garden than a science experiment for a few months. I think you'll be happy.


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## roland6543 (Sep 18, 2012)

Hi Wet,

I get what you're saying, and I'll concentrate on tending to the garden. Things have been improving for sure since I've been pruning plants. 

I don't know that I'll be able to stay completely away from the numbers though, being a scientist for the last 30 years means I can't help myself. 

I sincerely appreciate your advice. I'll post updates as things develop.


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## roland6543 (Sep 18, 2012)

I've dropped the lighting period for a few weeks. 

Other things I've done is eliminated the nitrate and phosphate nutrient dose because I seem to be getting more than enough from feeding, based upon test kits. Even though the kits arent calibrated, based upon tap water results, and steady increases in one week to high values, Im sure the feeding or overstocking is resulting in too high nitrates and phosphates.

I've since reduced feeding to once per day, and I'll monitor that for a while. I just hope I'm feeding enough. I have a lot of bottom feeders and find that hard to judge.

I'm basing my dose targets on petalphiles low light EI targets, but spreading the dose out to a few times a week instead of once per week.

I bought a drop checker and running it in a 4dkH solution... its been nice and green, so my DIY plan with 4 bottles co2 seems to be working nicely. 

Best news is that I have no new algae blooms and algae is definitely coming under control. I am however trimming out the older algae ridden leaves. Most plants are growing nicely. Plants and fish look happy.

As before, suggestions and watch outs are VERY welcome as I continue to venture into new territory.


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