# Planning on starting a low-tech SA plant biotop



## Calavera (Dec 3, 2006)

Hello!
After surfing around here at APC for a while, looking at your gorgeous creations, I got inspired to start planning for the makeover for my 540l (approx. 140 US Gallons).
I am planning on making it an "el natural" looking aquarium and hence I'm posting in this part of the forum, I hope it is the correct part 

Now on to what I have planned (pre-alfa stage):

Substrate:
"Water plant soil" alt. top soil (no fertilizers), mixed with some peat, approx 2.5cm (1")
Some nutrient rich stuff, like "Sera Floredepot" or similar...at least where I'm planting the Echinodorus plants...
As topping about 5cm (2") of gravel

Technology:
A fluval 305 filter
A full-cover lighting, 4x36W + reflectors, possibly modded to get more w/l

Chemistry:
"Alder cones" (?) and peat extract in the filter to get black water effect
PMDD and water treatment (like Sera Morena) in the beginning

Inhabitants:
Black widow tetra, 15
Lemon tetra, 10
Cardinal tetra, about 30
Bushymouth catfish, 5
Siamese alge eater, 5
Angle fishes, a pair of bigger ones or 4-5 smaller ones
"Black" molly, a couple 
Fairy Catfish, 3

And then the aquascaping part...










A) Rot (with Riccia?), about 20cm x 60cm
B) Rot (with Riccia?), leaning towards the back wall and going up to the surface
C) Dark/black stones
D) Technology: Filter in & out, heater

1) Baccopa Australis
2) E. Bleheri
3) E. Osiris
4) E. Bleheri (big, used or tropica mother plant)
5) Lilaeopis Macloviana
6) E. Parviflorus
7) Hydrocotyle Leucocephala
8 ) Eleocharis "Parvula"
9) E. 'Aquartica'
10) Alternanthera Reinecki
11) Sagittaria Subulata (spread out)
12) E. Angustifolius

I hope there is someone who can/wants to help me and tell me what they think, and so on 

Thank you in advance! :cheer2:

PS: Sry for the bad english, this the first time I write about aquarium stuff in english


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

4x36w gives you 144 watts. Over a 140 gallon tank, that's only 1WPG. I'd bump it up to at least 1.6-1.8WPG (another 80 to 108 watts extra) for that large a tank. With that, you'll be able to grow most plants you want, provided your tank isn't too deep.


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## Calavera (Dec 3, 2006)

Thank you for your answer! 
The tank is 60x60x150cm and the only problem with adding extra light is where to place it. I have a ramp (?) or whatever they are called in English that looks like this:








The only place where I can imagen that it would be possible to put in extra light is under the back "hatch/door" where I have approx 140x6x13cm to work with...and hence I'm affraid that nothing will fit there.
What would you put your money on? T8? T5?

Thank you in advance!


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

So 60cm x 60cm x 150cm = 24" x 24" x 60" tank, which is actually about 150 gallons.

Your best bet for a 60" tank, if you have the finances, would be either metal halides or T5s.


Option 1:
So for your 5 foot tank, you can either have a 2 foot next to a 3 foot setup, or you could have 4 feet T5s and have lack of light 6" from either side of the tank. The 2 foot/3 foot setup would give you even coverage over your tank and would be the best option.

Option 2:
I only know of 4 foot and 8 foot shoplights (T8's), so that would also limit you.

T5s are more efficient than T8s, but do cost a little more. The most economical way would probably to get two sets of shoplights (4 bulbs at 32W each), and do ODNO (over driven normal output) on them, to get about 56 watts per bulb. 4 bulbs * 56 watts = 224 watts over your 150 gallons is about ~1.5WPG.

If you do that, then your setup could be:
===== 4 feet ====xx
xx==== 4 feet =====
===== 4 feet ====xx
xx==== 4 feet =====

You'd have good coverage in the middle of your tank. The 12" on either side of your tank would get about half as much light, but there'd be light nonetheless. The area's marked with "xx" are where there would be less light.


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## Calavera (Dec 3, 2006)

Thank you once again! 
Lets see now, I'm not that good at non-SI units...
6x6x15 gives 540, so I know that the tank is 540l, and according to my convertor it's 142.65291 US Gallons or 118.7834 Imperial ones, but my convertor might as well be incorrect 

The finance is a kinda "big" problem since I'm still a student without work = not that much money...
I'm sorry but I can't really visualize what you mean by the different setups? Do you mean that I should buy a new "ramp"? That, I'm affraid, would be a bit too expensive for me...


Is it impossible to get a lamp to fit under the "back hatch"? This would feel like the most economical choise, but it would unfortunately not give that much more effect...

In what way do you mean that T5es are more efficient? Do I get more out of a 40W T5 than from a 40W T8?


Thank you once again and thank you in advance!


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Is the "ramp" where you can put the bulbs into? Like a light fixture?

And yes, 40 watts of T5 gives you more light than 40 watts of T8 lighting.


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## Calavera (Dec 3, 2006)

The "ramp" that I have looks like this:









It already has four 36W Aquarelle T8 lights...it might be a bit hard to see, but the lamps are attached where you can see the metal "things" with the white T8 holders...
It has one front hatch, which is really small, and one back hatch with holes for filter tubing that is a bit bigger (the backside is actually turned towards you in the upside-down picture). It is this place where I have an estimated 140x6x13cm (LHW) place, where I could possibly put some kinda of lighting...
(the ramps is resting on the aquarium)

Do you have some kind of estimate for how much more T5 gives me compared to a T8 of the same wattage?

Thank you in advance!


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

You can probably only fit ~63 more watts in that space if you do it. One 39w 36" bulb and one 24w 24" bulb.

I'm not sure, there's a few threads on here comparing efficiencies of T12, T8, T5, and PC bulbs.


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## Calavera (Dec 3, 2006)

Are you sure that placing bulbs would be the best way to increase the number of watts? I was thinking more in the direction of putting one or two T8 tubes in there...that would give 40-80W more...which would result in over 1.5 WPG...

Is it sure that I need more "light power"?
On another forum they said that it was not nessecary since I already had about 1 WPG and Walstad recomends 1-2 WPG in a low-tech aquarium?

Thank you for your help and thank you in advance!


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## Calavera (Dec 3, 2006)

If we play with the thought that the light problem has been fixed...what do you all think of the layout? I might feel like it goes against some of the "rules" of aquascaping...

Thank you in advance!


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## Tentacles (Jun 25, 2006)

What about positioning it where it will get an hour or two of natural light per day and using low light plants, instead of spending money on more lighting? It is a "natural" planted tank after all... and meant to be low tech.

Your Ramp, Calavara, is called a Hood in most english speaking countries... even England where generally a hood is a bonnet...  

I've been trying to figure out what SA plants mean? I thought you might be mirroring a South American, South African or even a rare South Australian natural aquascape... but then the fish and the plants seem to be from all over. South East Asian? What's it mean?


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## Satirica (Feb 13, 2005)

You need to separate the filter intake and return for better filtering and circulation.

"Rot (with riccia?)" is reference to a rock or wood??? I would use a moss because it will root, requires less light and less maintenance.

I think you have laid this out so that the bottom of your A. reinicki will be hidden, which is good because it is likely to lose all lower leaves.

Your light levels will probably be okay but I would not add anything into the tank to get a black water effect unless I increased the lighting.

E osiris runs 25 - 30 cm in width. You are planning to put 6 of these in a fairly small space. I would use 3 - 4 and leave them some room to grow. I would also count on E. bleheri to fill a circle 40 cm in diameter. The small E. bleheri will reach full growth in no time. I think you might have a high degree of crowding with that.

The layout looks pretty good to me.


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## Calavera (Dec 3, 2006)

Thank you for your replies 
Tentacles: I'm affraid that I only have one place where this tank will fit and it is unfortunately not in a place where sunlight will hit it more than a few minutes on summer mornings 
And thank you for correcting me on that hood things, I thought ramp sounded so strange 
Sry, I'm so used to that SA means south american...and the plants and fish should only come from south america, please tell me if I have missed something?
I know that the siamese alge eater does not come from "SA" but they look very much like a species that do and they are such good cleaners. I also believe that "black" mollys come from central america, except for those in my tank...they, eh...migrated south 

Satirica: Separating the in and outlet would mean trobble both with how they enter the aquarium and tubing length. And from what I have learnt they should be in the same corner for the best effect so that the water goes on top to the other corner where it is turned by the "wall" and then goes back att the bottom?
I didn't know the thing about the A. reinicki, but now I do, good thing I planned for it 
This lighting will give about 1WPG which is in the lower part of walstads recomendation (1-2WPG). I want to ad some blackwater effect to get away from the clearness which doesn't look that nice. Although I'm NOT making it real black water but a bit tea colored...if you can visualize what I mean 
I know that E. Osiris and E. bleheri grows big but I have had them for some time and it seems as they don't want to...Altough I already have alot of Osiris and one small bleheri that I will plant and then take out if they grow to big...or is this not a good idea?


Thank you once again for your comments and thanks in advance!
I hope that everything goes well...
I'm also planning on starting up a 45l tank to test the walstad method, diary promissed if I do this


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## Tentacles (Jun 25, 2006)

I'm not expert on where things originate. It was just the riccia and the siamese fighting fish that made me wonder if there was an asian influence and what SA really meant. I forgot where this board was based and what the most obvious SA would be.


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## Calavera (Dec 3, 2006)

Thank you all for your replies! 
Since there is loads of time until this project would actually start I have made another plan, which very likely is not the last one either...
Anyway, here we go...










1) Lilaeopsis macloviana
Height: 30-50+cm
http://www.tropica.com/catalog/images/productcard/varenr040D.jpg

2) Hydrocotyle leucocephala
Height: 10-20cm
http://www.tropica.com/catalog/images/productcard/varenr038.jpg

3) Echinodorus parviflorus (''peruensis'')
Height: 15-30cm
http://www.tropica.com/catalog/images/productcard/varenr071D.jpg

4) Echinodorus 'Aquartica'
Height: 10-15cm
http://www.tropica.com/catalog/images/productcard/varenr074F.jpg

5) Eleocharis ''parvula''
Height: 3-7cm
http://www.tropica.com/catalog/images/productcard/varenr132C.jpg

6) Echinodorus bleheri
Height: 20-50cm
http://www.tropica.com/catalog/images/productcard/varenr071.jpg

7) Echinodorus osiris
Height: 25-50cm
http://www.tropica.com/catalog/images/productcard/varenr072.jpg

8 ) Bacopa australis
Height: 7-30cm (does in fact grow much higher)
http://www.tropica.com/catalog/images/productcard/varenr043A.jpg

9) Sagittaria subulata
Height: 5-30+cm (most stay low)
http://www.tropica.com/catalog/images/productcard/varenr079.jpg

10) Alternanthera reineckii ''roseafolia'' ('Pink')
Height: 25-50cm
http://www.tropica.com/catalog/images/productcard/varenr023.jpg

11) Undecided, something that looks nice in between rocks and is high enough to cover a bit of the root behind (b), but not so higher than approx 20-30cm.

12) Undecided, something to cover quite a lot of the foreground, like tenellus or similar...

a) Root against the back wall

b) Root

c) Cave going underground

d) Black/dark rocks

All of the plants are from SA (South America) and are classed to have a light requirement no higher than "medium" and a difficulty of no higher than "medium", by Tropica.
Animals living in the tank are the same as before with the possible addition of a pair of "Apistogramma cacatuoides".

I hope that the explanation is clear and that someone would like to comment 

Note: The Subulata is meant as a thing to create depth.

Thank you in advance!


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## Satirica (Feb 13, 2005)

I think that looks like an interesting layout and think the tenellus would make a great foreground for the tank.

You might want to post over on the aquascaping area as you are likely to get more replies there. Few people doing a "natural" tank pay a lot of attention to aquascaping. I am glad to see you posting your layouts.


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## Calavera (Dec 3, 2006)

I thought of making a new thread there but I feel bad making one when this one is still "alive", I'm afraid it would be braking some rules?

Thank you for the positive response btw 
Echinodorus Tenullus or Echinodorus angustifolius?


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