# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Soil Mix?



## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

I recently came across FoxFarm's Planting Mix, the ingredients are mixed earthworm castings, chicken and bat guano, some aged mushroom compost, cocoa bean hulls. Would this be dancing with the devil, or with careful sand diluting it could work?


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

I recently came across FoxFarm's Planting Mix, the ingredients are mixed earthworm castings, chicken and bat guano, some aged mushroom compost, cocoa bean hulls. Would this be dancing with the devil, or with careful sand diluting it could work?


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

I suppose if you dilute it it could work, DO NOT put too much into your substrate. this is just my opinion.


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## nativeplanter (Jan 27, 2004)

Chicken manure is VERY high in nitrogen. I would not use it.

Raul, you seem to be keen on making this a lot more complicated than I think it needs to be. I would really just use a simple soil, even if just topsoil, on the bottom of the tank. Just don't use too much. I worry that the more variables you add to this, the more likely you will have something go wrong. They didn't invent the KISS phrase for nothing (Keep It Simple, St..)

In Diana's book, she mentions a way to add soil to an already established tank using wax paper packets. I would start with a very simple soil, then if you find you want to add something else later, you can using the packets. It's just so darned hard to take out a substrate once it's in there.

Remember that manure (guano and castings) is really a natural fertilizer, with concentrated nutrients. Your fish will act as a fertilizer source once you get going.

Also, I don't think diluting it with sand would do anything but give you more bulk. If you're wanting to dilute it, just use less. One of the ways soil helps plants grow is by the small particle sizes of clays and silts. These give the roots something to contact, which helps them absorb nutrients from their surfaces. Sand/gravel makes this harder.

Diana's method was meant as a way to keep things simple. I think you might be over-researching this. Just get some soil in there, regular old soil, top it off with gravel, and relax.

-Laura


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

when you say topsoil, you mean any topsoil dug up from your backyard?


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## nativeplanter (Jan 27, 2004)

That's exactly what I mean. Or, around here since we have nothing but red-red clay, I use a little commercial top soil that I buy in bags, combined with some vermiculite (I have found that roots seem to like the vermiculite). Diana often says to use any soil that you would grow houseplants in. My only addition to that is to make sure that it doesn't contain artificial fertilizers (some of the name brands add fertilizer, claiming they make houseplants grow faster than brands), or any pearlite, which could float around in the aquarium (even though in theory you have it covered with gravel.)

-Laura


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

So you think this would work, would 9lbs:9lbs(soil:sand) be sufficient in a 36"x18"? I've never used vermiculite, so how much is actually needed?


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

wouldnt your red-red clay be perfect for the planted tank? that means it has lots of iron.... or is there another reason why you aren't using it?


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## nativeplanter (Jan 27, 2004)

Diana says that she has used red clay from NC with good results, but she also says that she thinks that some alage problems are from iron. I dunno, I think I was concerned about a lack of organic matter. 

Raul, I don't know how many pounds it would take to fill your tank, but what I would do in your situation is go to Home Depot or similar store, buy a 50 lb bag of plain topsoil (for less than $3), and a bag of vermiculite (for less than $5). Mix half and half in a bucket, and add to your tank to a depth of 1 inch, then top off with 1" of gravel. I really don't think the sand is necessary at all. I haven't used sand in any of my tanks, and they are crystal clear with good growth.

-Laura


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Raul-7:
> I recently came across FoxFarm's Planting Mix, the ingredients are mixed earthworm castings, chicken and bat guano, some aged mushroom compost, cocoa bean hulls. Would this be dancing with the devil, or with careful sand diluting it could work?


Hi Raul-7,

I had computer problems, so I couldn't answer this question as soon as I could. My apologies.

If this Planting Mix is designed for houseplants it may be okay. Yes, the chicken and bat guano gave me pause, BUT if this mix is thoroughly composted the ammonia may be long gone due to bacterial processing.

If ordinary gardeners are using this product to successfully grow houseplants, it may well work in an aquarium. Houseplants, unlike garden plants, soybeans, and lawn grass, are slow growers and don't need a lot of fertilizers. So mixes designed for them are a good bet for using in the aquarium.

That said, since it is an untested soil, you might want to try the bottle test I described earlier and test the water for ammonia before using this soil to set up a tank.

I'd use no more than 1 inch of this (no additives, please) and cover it with 1 to 1.5 inch regular gravel.


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Thanks all!








Anona, I think I'll skip vermiculite after all the negatives I heard about it.

Diana, wouldn't boiling oxidize most of the ammonia? Thanks


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Boiling soil would not oxidize ammonia. However, it would kill the nitrifying bacteria in the soil that would. Don't kill your bacteria!


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

raul, what neg things did you hear about verm? all i hear is good stuff


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## imported_Sue (Jan 31, 2004)

Chicken manure is dangerous to use on land plants unless it's aged a good, full year. It will even eat through metal in a raw state. Same for any bird droppings. Even in my little 15 chicken hen house the dust from the manure irritates my nose and throat. Nothing to mess with unless you really know what your doing.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Sue,

You've brought up a good point. If it smells like manure or you detect traces of manure with your "sniffer", don't use it. 

If it smells nice like good garden earth, then the manure has been aged long enough. 

That said, I can't imagine any company selling a potting soil mix that would contain manure that wasn't thoroughly aged and safe for plants. The company wouldn't stay in business very long!


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## Moon (Apr 10, 2004)

I use a soil mix of 1 part mushroom compost, 2 to 3 parts volcanic rock dust, and 6 to 7 parts organic peat. This layer is about 1 inch thick, I cover this with fiberglass window screen and a layer of fine sand 3 to 4 inches thick. I have great luck with this growing Cape Fear Spadderdock (which in this case should be called Lake Waccamaw Spadderdock) I collect my own plants as sprouts before they start to grow their tubers and avoid the whole broken tuber problem. On thing I have recently come across is what has long been my personal "holy grail" fine "Black Sand" I usually use building sand or play sand. But have I found a sand called "Tahitian Moon Sand" I forget who it is that sells it but the effect of the jet black sand is astounding! Most fish show their colors better over a dark substrate and this is the perfect substrate! Fine black sand with just the right particle size. It will be used when I get my 70 gallon tank set up. I plan to use the following plants along with Java fern and moss covered bogwood I have been growing in other tanks. I also have a water tupelo tree I have dwarfed somewhat like bonsai and a cypress tree as well. I have some dwarf cattails I plan to try again, so far they just don't seem to want to grow in an aquarium like they do in my ponds even though I provide intense lighting that grows the trees. Here are some of the plants I intend to use. Any thoughts or critiques are welcome.
Didiplis diandre Alternanthera reineckii Red Foxtail Red Rubin Sword Aponogeton ulvaceus Tiger Lotus Red Melon Sword Micro tenellus-pigmy chain swords 
Dwarf hairgrass Medium chain swords


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## Wally (Aug 31, 2003)

Hi Moon welcome to the boards, its not the NANFA list but we have fun here









One thing about the Tahitian Moon Sand if its what I am thinking about it will raise your PH, as its made for African Cichlid tanks, not a problem if you have liquid rock like me coming out of your tap but for some others it might be a problem.


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## Moon (Apr 10, 2004)

The company says the Tahitian Moon Sand will not raise hardness or ph but as you say with my water it hardly matters.

Moon


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