# Are CPD's or Ember tetras possible threats to any dwarf baby shrimplets?



## NeonFlux (May 15, 2008)

Hi guys, it's been a while since the last time I made a regular thread..

Well, okay, I have kept CPD's and Ember tetras with my dwarf shrimps (Red Cherry Shrimp, neocaridinas) with no problems, but I wonder... do these two different kinds of fish be possible predators to shrimplets? I keep these fish in a very small populations with my shrimps, 3 per 10 gallon tank. 3 CPD in one tank, 3 ET's in one tank. I think maybe the reason how the shrimplets are surviving, is because of how low the tank is stocked? 

Overall, the real question is, do Celestial pearl danios and Ember tetras indeed eat baby shrimplets when given the chance despite having quite small mouths?


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## NeonFlux (May 15, 2008)

I would also like to note that I keep a lot of plants in the tanks too. Perhaps in addition to that, it increases the survival rate too besides having low fish stock, eh?


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## spypet (Jul 27, 2007)

It's interesting you bring this specific issue up as I'm about to introduce CPD into my shrimp breeding tank, so I can only tell you based on the many "is this fish shrimp fry safe" threads I've reviewed this year. The consensus is that it's not just CPD mouth size but their shy relatively inactive personality that may keep them from being shrimp fry predictors. Shrimp fry do not behave like brine shrimp or copepods, in that our shrimp fry actively avoid preditors by hiding or swimming away from them, while brine shrimp seem oblivious to a nearby preditor. 
Ember tetras on the other hand are more active, school, and may require you to give the shrimp fry more plant cover in order to keep them out from the open where they may be fair game for the tetras. keep in mind that shrimp fry double in size every few days, so the window of predation vulnerability from either of these two fish is very narrow. 
another approach you might use is to isolate shrimp mothers who have been berried for a few weeks to a Penn Plax net breeder cube (don't use plastic breeder boxes or other brands as their nets are not fine enough to contain shrimp fry). using a net cube gives you the additional advantage of being able to feed your fry powdered food that would otherwise scatter all over you tank, forcing your shrimp fry out from plant cover into the mouths of potential predictors. Once the fry are born I remove the mother and feed the fry powdered food for two weeks. By then they are large and fast enough to avoid predation by most under 1" nano fish.
Predation may also be a matter of food conditioning, so before I expose my new CPD to shrimp fry, I'll give them a week to accept flake food that I offer this tank daily. If they are eating my flake, and not otherwise starving, they are less likely to reconsider their shrimp fry tank mates as an alternate food source.


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## onefang (Apr 10, 2011)

I've had White clouds that really seemed interested in eating RCS babies. I've also had some larger Rasboras that could care less. They aren't CPDs, or Ember tetras, but similar in temperament, and behavior. I do agree with spypet though on food conditioning, and also keeping them well fed at all times. As soon as they get a little "too hungry", they can be motivated to consider food sources that they wouldn't have otherwise noticed.

Generally though, with most shrimp/small fish community tanks, it's a matter of providing adequate dense plant cover for the little buggers to hide in. After that, it's up to natural selection to sort out which babies are smart enough to stay in the plant cover long enough to not look like tiny aquatic cheetos.


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## rjfurbank (Jan 21, 2008)

I used to be a big proponent of keeping shrimp in "shrimp-only" tanks due to predation. However, I have changed my thoughts on this matter. I have a 90g tank w/ a thriving population of RCS (which I never purposely introduced into the tank). I did not realize how many existed until I had to move the tank and took everything out -- there were literally hundreds of shrimp! There is a very healthy fish population in this tank (5 angels, loaches, rasboras, rainbow fish, barbs, . . .) and I was really shocked to see so many shrimp. The tank is very heavily planted and I feed the fish well.

I also keep smaller fish (rasboras, guppies, small livebearers) in many of my shrimp tanks w/ no issues. I'm sure some babies get eaten but not enough to put a dent in the population.

My opinion is that if you have lots of plants, wood, rocks it shouldn't be a problem keep them w/ the small fish you propose (unless you plan to raise and sell the shrimp -- I don't keep any fish in my CRS tank!).

Good luck!

-Roy


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## NeonFlux (May 15, 2008)

I see, I see. So I believe it should be fine then. I think I would have to keep the fish well fed to prevent the shrimplets from being eaten, keep a lot of plants for shrimp fry cover, perhaps isolate the mother in a breeding net, etc. Thanks a lot for all of input, guys.  Any more input are welcomed.


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## TarantulaGuy (Apr 15, 2009)

I keep a breeding population of CPD's in my cherry shrimp tank, its a 10 gal heavily planted. I've never seen them make any attempt on my shrimplets, I also just added in several Sparkling Gouramis, which seem to be ignoring the shrimp as well. But I have had many many baby shrimp grow to adulthood in this tank with the fish.


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## spypet (Jul 27, 2007)

TarantulaGuy said:


> I keep a breeding population of CPD's in my cherry shrimp tank, its a 10 gal heavily planted. I've never seen them make any attempt on my shrimplets.


very cool, that's my plan too. I already put up a spawning mesh,
and have another foam filter tank going with Infusoria for the fry.
I live near a freshwater lake, so I'll go with a silk net and see
what else I can colonize my live food tank with  Have any of
your male CPD gotten territorial and killed other males as of yet?

BTW; Sparkling Gouramis despite their size can be persistent predators,
once they get used to your tank, you will definitely suffer some fry loss.


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## TarantulaGuy (Apr 15, 2009)

I've seen no real aggression out of my male CPD's, they do chase each other off and on, but nothing serious, I haven't even seen any evidence of fin nipping. But they've been in there for, ehh, going on a year maybe? And have been through several batches of fry, without any males killing each other. As far as the gouramis go, they're more of a test, they've been in about a month now and I still barely see them. We'll see once they get more acclimated, but I'm not too concerned about shrimp loss, that tank easily has 150-200 cherries in it at any given time, losing a few to fish isn't really going to hurt the population any.


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## 00savethepandas (Jan 7, 2012)

YES, they do! Don't make my mistake! They look like they have small mouths but you'll see that the open wide enough to eat babies that are only maybe a couple of weeks old or less. What's even worse is that they're much faster than larger fish so they might almost better hunters. I was so excited to finally have baby crystals in my tank. You could imagine my disappointment when my tank was empty of them and I watched what could have been the last baby go after work one day. I never should have added them to my tank. 
I guess their little stripes made them much easier to spot, especially in fluval ebi. Endler guppies don't seem to be a problem yet.


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## TarantulaGuy (Apr 15, 2009)

I did remove the sparkling gouramis, they were disrupting the tank, even though I never saw them. My CPD's simply don't bother my shrimp. I assume that they do eat the occasional shrimplet, given the fact that they're egg and fry eaters, but the seem to ignore the shrimp for the most part. I have a very healthy population of shrimp in this tank, and it's had the same setup for going on 2, 2 1/2 years now. NeonFlux, how'd your CPD introduction go? I'd like to see a picture of your setup, if you still have it going.


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

When I had CPD's with my CRS/RCS I would on occasion see predation but nothing detrimental unless you are counting every single shrimp daily.


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## ItsDubC (Jan 12, 2008)

Not that this necessarily answers your question, but I kept 5 ember tetras in a 10 gal NPT w/ RCS and my RCS population was always on the rise. Plant mass wasn't particularly dense but being an NPT, the ember tetras were always well-fed.


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

Embers are really docile compared to my experience with CPDs


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