# dymndgyrl's El Natural journal



## dymndgyrl (Jan 22, 2007)

I've started an El Natural 10g tank and have been lurking around this forum for info. Now, I've decided to post my journal here for anyone to follow who might be interested or have any good advice. Enjoy!

Top of my priorities will be a) keeping costs low and b) being as natural as possible.

So, to start off, I'm having my DH build me a stand for the tank so it will sit right in front of a south facing window (could take a few days or a week). I'm going to try no additional lighting except perhaps a low wattage screw in CF for morning and evening tank viewing.

Next, I'll be adding sifted garden soil from my yard, covered with a layer of fine gravel. (I'd like sand on top, but am leery of the anaerobic effect it seems to have when compacted. more research on this . . . )
So as a test I've added a layer of this soil to a jar, covered with some spare (fluorescent green!) gravel, and some spare plant clippings. Will test the water after it settles and see how much the soil will effect it. Soil around here is very alkaline.










In the tank will be a Hydor Ekip 350 (thermo powerhead), which I already had. It will heat the tank in the winter, as we keep our house very cool, but the rest of the year I think I'll turn it of for natural temp. variations. Also, I'll run the powerhead, but no filter. This is a nice little unit, about 10" long, with 100w of heat and an adjustable flow of up to 125 gph. It comes with an add on 'box' (you can see in the pic) that houses sponges and makes it into an in tank filter/heater, which i am leaving off.










The tank will be open top, with emergent plants. Comments and advice welcome!
Cheers,
Cindy


----------



## dymndgyrl (Jan 22, 2007)

Here's the results of my soil test sample after two days-

_______TAP......................JAR
PH______6.8.......................7.2
KH______6 dkh................... 7 dkh
Phos.____0 ........................2.0 

All the other tests - GH, ammonia, nitrates ans nitrites remained the same.

The soil didn't raise my parameters as much as I thought it would, which is good. I feel confident about using it. I think I'm going to add a few handfuls of Flourite that I have laying around, though, for added slow release iron and minerals. I'll mix it right in with the soil. 

Going to the garden center to look at pea gravel as a topping. I may use sand in the foreground (just because I like the nice light color). I've heard that Malaysian trumpet snails like to dig in sand, keeping it aerated. Anybody have experience with that?

The stand should be completed this weekend, and I'm still pondering the plants. I guess I want plants with good root systems to keep the soil aerobic, but will pulling crowded rooted plants out will disturb the substrate too much? I think I'm a bit skeptical that plants will grow very much at all in this tank, so maybe I won't worry about that issue at this point!

I don't know that much about plant varieties, so I think I'll just put in whatever looks good and is cheap. 
Also sifting my soil and boiling some beach driftwood this weekend. Oh yeah, and I ordered Diana Walstads book from Amazon. Nothing like aquarium related weekend projects, is there!

Cheers!


----------



## dymndgyrl (Jan 22, 2007)

Hmmm, seems I was a bit hasty. Day 4 and the water parameters in my test jar are interesting:

PH is now 7.8 - 8.0 (had to use the high ph test kit)
phosphates are up to 5
Nitrate is thru the roof and off the chart (chart goes up to 80)

But I did get the Dianas book today - so maybe I can figure out what to do with this info! I think this is common when you add soil, initially it leaches alot of nutrients into the water and then settles down.

Got the stand built, with paint drying - purchased some fine gravel and some coarse aquarium sand (I think I'll try it, even though it may all settle into the soil).
Plants are ordered and will be here maybe Wed. Selection is:

narrow leaf java fern 
Windelov java fern 
rotala mini 
Ludwigia Guinea
glossostigma 
Cryptocoryne Wendtii 'Tropica'

I also have some Italian vals, java moss and a collapsed moss ball that I may try to grow as a carpet.

So in my next post I'll be planting the tank - and then it's all testing, testing, testing! (I love testing )


----------



## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

A bit off topic, but that thermofilter looks perfect for a NPT.... I've had my eye on that particular model for a long time. It seems like they are not being sold in so many places now though. How do you like yours? Is the temperature setting accurate?


----------



## dymndgyrl (Jan 22, 2007)

I haven't tried it in a tank yet! Got it from BigAl's Online.


----------



## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Hi,

I would suggest that you start over with a different soil substrate, like low organic top soil (the cheapest).

Your back yard soil has a lot of nutrients in it and might also contain fertilizer from last summer. If you use it, you will have a constant battle with your water chemistry.

Good luck!

Bill


----------



## zrowng (Sep 21, 2006)

any new info and/or pix dymndgyrl?


----------



## dymndgyrl (Jan 22, 2007)

Well, I got my plants in the mail today. Ordered from a fellow hobbyist on a local (BC, Canada) forum. And planted the tank.










Aquabillpers, you're probably right, but I decided to carry on with my garden soil as an experiment. I know it hasn't been fertilized in any way for the last 8 years, but it is fertile, indeed.

I added about 1 cup of Flourite to the tank, then 1" of soil, and mixed into it about 1 cup of crumbled barley straw pellets. Then some small grained natural gravel, and some sand in the foreground.

I may be asking for additional trouble with the Flourite, I guess, and the barley straw was because a) I though the soil had too little organic matter, b) it was mentioned in Dianas book as something some experimenters added to soil to boost organic content and c) it is used to keep ponds clear (which is why I had some - my pond is very clear!) maybe it will help the tank, too.

After filling the tank was a bit cloudy, but nothing floating up through the gravel. The picture didn't come out too good. (I have my java moss hanging in a net bag, because there wasn't room to attach it to anything, not sure what I'll eventually do with it)










Hmm, my gravel and sand layer didn't come out too even, oh well . . . and that dark lump is a piece of driftwood - I planted a java fern in a gravel filled cavity on top.

I positioned the tank in a corner between an east and a south facing window.
I'll try to get a better pic when the tank clears and I'll post my test results. I'm expecting high nitrates, nitrites and phosphates for some time and will do water changes until things stabilize (if they ever do!) and before I add any fish.

Thanks for looking, see you soon!
Cheers


----------



## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

I don't think you will have problems with your soil, I use soil strait out of my yard and add compost.

Good luck and keep us posted


----------



## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

> and that dark lump is a piece of driftwood - I planted a java fern in a gravel filled cavity on top.


You want to tie the Java Fern to the wood, not plant it in gravel as the rhizome will rot if buried. If you tie it to the wood, or staple it to it, it will root onto the wood and grow brilliantly.


----------



## dymndgyrl (Jan 22, 2007)

Hi again,
Well, it's been about a week and my water has cleared up. I've done 4 water changes (50%) on this tank and the high nitrates seem to be under control at about 20ppm. I haven't added any fish yet because I'm still getting a .5 ppm reading of nitrites.










I added two 13 w cp bulbs (in the vinatge fixture!) and I'm trying to decide how long to keep them on - alot of cloudy days in the winter here. I think I'll try 4 hours in the morning and 4 in the late afternoon/evening (the idea is to get some tank viewing in when the room is at it's darkest.)

I also took out the Ekip powerhead. It was too obtrusive and I didn't like the hum in this room. I'm considering no water movement or possibly a way smaller pump and only at night. Anyone have any experience with no water movement in their NPT's?

Got carried away and just had to do this, too:










Wondering if a snail will crawl out of this? (Or out of my open topped 10 g as well . . .)

Cheers,
Cindy


----------



## treesmcdonald (Mar 14, 2006)

Hey things look good so far. I love that light fixture. I also use soil from my yard and have had great luck with it. My only advice would be to get some more plants. Especially some fast growers. It looks like you have mostly crypts and javas great plants but sometimes not the best for establishing a tank because they grow slowly. Some floaters will also help reduce your nitrates.
Good luck-Errin


----------



## Brocklee (Feb 5, 2007)

treesmcdonald said:


> My only advice would be to get some more plants. Especially some fast growers. It looks like you have mostly crypts and javas great plants but sometimes not the best for establishing a tank because they grow slowly. Some floaters will also help reduce your nitrates.


I am a newbie, but would like to say that I agree with the above quote. I have two natural tanks, and I had to double the number of plants I initially started with and added faster growing plants because they weren't converting the nutrients into plant mass fast enough. (I think that was the problem anyhow)


----------



## dymndgyrl (Jan 22, 2007)

treesmcdonald said:


> My only advice would be to get some more plants. Especially some fast growers.


Agreed . . . but I can't seem to find any floaters. I'm sort of waiting for stores to get their spring pond stock in. And I'll try to get some more stem plants in, There are italian vals in there - but they're very small!


----------



## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

Thank you for documenting your set-up so well! I especially like your natural nano. Both tanks look like thy will be wonderful additions to your home. 

You could try to post a want-to-buy ad in the for sale/trade forum here. i'm sure someone has some floating plants they could sell you. (Though maybe it's too cold to ship in a lot of Canada. I'm freezing and I'm to the south!)


----------



## dymndgyrl (Jan 22, 2007)

We can't "legally" ship plants over the border without expensive phytosanitary certificates, etc. I'll keep trying local clubs & forums, though. I'm sure I'll find something within the week. Thanks for all the comments!

BTW, British Columbia is the mediterranean jewel of Canada! Weather even balmier than Seattle, especially where I am, right on the ocean.


----------



## onemyndseye (May 12, 2006)

dymndgyrl ... There is also a Canadia section of the Buy/Trade/Sell forum.. you might try there as well 


Good Luck !
-Justin
One Mynds Eye


----------



## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

Dymnedgirl, I am jealous of your weather! We are freezing and covered in snow. The cold seems to have no end in sight! Brrrrrr.


----------



## Aquatic addict (Apr 14, 2006)

Very nice set-up (both of them!) You really did your homework and can expect good results. Thanks for the journal, keep it up!


----------



## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

dymndgyrl said:


> Got carried away and just had to do this, too:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I have them crawl out of my natural vases all the time. I think they eat all the algae and go looking for food. they kind of self regulate their population. but pond snails are easy to breed so the supply is endless. 

Great looking tanks. I've got a ton of stems right now but I'm on the wrong side of the border.


----------



## dymndgyrl (Jan 22, 2007)

3 weeks old . . .

Not much to report - There are 2 dozen cherry shrimp, 2 oto's and 6 guppies in the tank now. All seem to be happy. 
The water parameters are pretty stable - ammonia at 0, nitrites at 0, nitrates at 10ppm. The water turned a little hazy again, I'm thinking a bacterial bloom combined with yellow tannins from the driftwood. There is no sign of green water or algae growth in the tank. 
I switched the 13 w cp bulbs for 11 w ones because it was just too bright in that corner.

I added some duckweed and a marginal lobelia plant that was growing in my pond as an attempt to include some faster growing rooted plants. None of the existing plants have done much - a few new leaves on the glosso - but none have melted either!


----------



## fuzzyletters (Jan 20, 2007)

hi... im looking to set up a tank in a few months and i've been trying to find an internal filter/powerhead with an air intake (so as to attach a diy-type co2 feed with aquarium tubing)... does the ekip have something like that? also is the noise that bad? i'd be keeping it in a dorm, so...
otherwise i'm really impressed with natural tanks... seems like good work so far and good luck!


----------



## dymndgyrl (Jan 22, 2007)

Hey, fuzzyletters. Yes, the ekip does have an air intake. I don't think it made that much noise compared to other internal pumps. It's just that the tank is right by our laz-y-boys and my husband really likes things _silent_, hence the eheim cannisters on our other tank!

In the past it would'nt have bothered me, but after living with him for years, I sort of agree with the noise thing - I don't think I could stand it in a dorm. I'm happy with the way the tank is behaving without anything (although it is still struggling with a cloudy bacterial bloom)

I'm not going to post anymore pic's till it clears up!


----------



## Tony65 (Jun 3, 2006)

Dymndgyrl,
I used EKIPs for my NPT to start with but swapped them out for normal heaters and small aquaclear powerheads.

This was because of the EKIPs noise, and the bright blue flow control which draws the eye too much IMO (bright blue - what's that all about?  ).

I think the noise is caused by the suckers being directly attached to the unit, instead of the unit sliding into a suckered chassis like on the aquaclear. 

You can fiddle with the flow speed and location to help reduce noise but every time you clean it you're back to square one again.

They are great at holding the temperature steady though.


Fuzzyletters - Aquaclear powerheads have an air intake


----------



## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Hi

The tank looks good on the photo's posted,that was 16th Feb 07,that interests me a lot.Could you please post a new photo of the current status of your tank?.

many thanks,
Ravi


----------



## dymndgyrl (Jan 22, 2007)

Two months old:

A week or so ago I had almost given up on this tank. I had cloudy water all this time, which I had thought was a bacterial bloom, so I was waiting it out. Many of the plants were melting - the mini rotala, the stem plants, some of the glosso, outside leaves of the crypts. So I decided I needed some better rooted plants. I ordered swords, a lotus bulb, transplanted some vals, and added floating hornwort and duckweed. I also tied all the java fern to the driftwood.

I gravel vacuumed, there were tons of decaying leaf matter, and some kind of black stuff (but not algae- it vacuumed right up. Did several water changes. All this time the fish were fine, guppies & ottos, with 0 nitrites and 0 ammonia.

The water is finally clear after all that. The sun is shining more, which is helping. The new plants are doing OK. Oh OK, I won't give up quite yet!


















Thanks for asking, Plantbir! I really do like this little tank, I hope it continues to stay clear and thrive.

Cheers


----------



## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Hi dymndgyrl

Thats a nice tank & you seem to have put a lot of effort in it.It seems to be doing fine now,dont get impatient and take care of it and you'll surely see fruitful results.


Cheers
Ravi


----------



## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

Get Anacharis if you want something to grow really fast ;-)


----------



## dymndgyrl (Jan 22, 2007)

If I can find any good bunches at mt lfs's (notoriously poor selection), I might just try some anacharis.

I'm also going to try an experiment. I'm adding a long twisty piece of driftwood that will stick up out of the tank. I'm hoping that it will wick up some water, stay slightly damp and I will try growng bromeliads, air plants and maybe spanish moss on the branch (out of the water plants that don't need soil). My only concern is that the branch may get moldy.

Has anyone tried something like this? Did it work?

I've got the branch in, but I'll post pics when I find some plants to tie to it.


----------



## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

Someone else had driftwood coming out of the water and it caused huge problems (that was their best guess anyway)... grr, can't remember right now who it was. I'll post when I find it.


----------



## TeutonJon78 (Nov 10, 2004)

There are lots of examples of people with driftwood coming out of tanks. Look at Amano's tanks or lots of people in the aquascaping forums here. 

I have a tank running with some now. It doesn't seem to be causing any problems. Of course, that tank isn't setup NPT style (just plants and gravel), so maybe the soil changes things, but i can't imagine.

The tank does look good.


----------



## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

Good question though.
How do I take out the tannins in the water?
With my Anacharis and duckweed I would have thought the water would clear up.
Any comments


----------



## dymndgyrl (Jan 22, 2007)

OK, here's a pic of the new driftwood.










The small first submerged piece I put in, I had boiled quite a bit. Very little tannins left. (even tho in this pic the water looks yellow! It is a tiny bit, but I sort of like that look)

This longer piece is beach driftwood that is pretty white - bleached by the sun. It was too big to boil so I just scrubbed it with very hot water.

A very large piece I have in my 70g tank was a living piece of maple root. The tree blew over in a storm, so I cut the root, peeled the bark off and let it dry in the house for about a year (you should never use live wood - so I wondered - how old does wood have to be before you call it driftwood?) Well, this piece of maple dried beautifully, stayed a light color and has never released a speck of discoloration to the tank!

I found out that air plants don't do well attached to damp wood - they rot. So I'll have to find something else if the wood soaks up water. So far (24 hrs.) it hasn't. Jon78, is your emergent wood damp above the water line?


----------



## TeutonJon78 (Nov 10, 2004)

No, the wood I have above the water line is wet maybe 1 cm at most above the water line. everything else is dry (as far as I know). Of course, I'm using the bogwood.

And the only way to get tannins out of water is to change it, I think. I've never seen it just go away before. If someone knows a secret...do tell.


----------



## dirtmonkey (Mar 12, 2007)

I just used a buch of good activated carbon once in a while to lighten the water. A temporary hang-on filter packed with it, just for a day. It takes a lot of the "good stuff" out too, but only from the water column, kind of like a partial water change. I did that about once a month with one tank that had lots of driftwood.

Dymndgyrl, Tillandsias should do fine there if they get enough light. The wood won't get wet up above and the little humidity it might raise won't be enough to make a difference. I've raised Tillandsia of a few sorts inside humid vivariums on wood that stayed much wetter inside than yours will, in much higher humidity. Had to have a little computer fan for air circulation but even in still air your room would be a lot dryer than that. If you are still worried about it, or if the grey ones would want more light, just go for the greener, non-bulbous types of Tillandsias. Many of those are easy and just as beautiful.

Vincent

PS- be careful about fertilizing the Tillandsias, you'll need to spray it on, so unless you remove the driftwood with them, be sure to cover the tank with something until it's dried enough not to drip down into the tank.


----------



## schaadrak (Aug 18, 2006)

Anubias and java fern would do good on the wet parts of your driftwood, as would some moss.


----------

