# The last battle against GSA...



## Glouglou (Feb 21, 2006)

Algae and bacteria (cyanobacteria) are probably the first organized cells to thrive on our planet and, for the evolutionists, our ancestors???. They where there in the younger days of earth and will probably be there long time after life will become unsustainable for us. Cyanobacteria are probably a great player in transforming the early toxic atmosphere to a breathable place. Let’s be honest, these tiny pest in our tank deserve some respect.
rayer: rayer: rayer: rayer: 

:laser: Nope! not in my tank 

I restart in the planted aquarium for around 3 years and internet helping restart to learn the basic to keep a live underwater garden in our living room.

I try PMDD and heavier dosage and now follow the way, in the dosing, close to the last kekon finding. 

I try high phosphate (more than 1ppm), low NO3 (less than 3 to 4 ppm), old water (no water change) nothing seem to work, (to my expectation). Higher CO2 definitively have a restrain effect, why??
The CO2 itself, or the lower ph, or the oxygen release by pearling plants??? 

Ok higher CO2 help. 
—> Strike one... :mrgreen: 

Now, as kekon mention in is last finding the ratio and level of NO3/PO4 is one key (he mention a ratio of NO3 at 5ppm, and PO4 to 0.2 - 0.5ppm) help.

Personally I have level of NO3 at 3 ppm and PO4 at .6, .7ppm for around 3 months, everything grow well, but still GSA, My Elodea seem to have trouble with PO4 level less than .5 and no plants seem to complaint at 3 ppm NO3

To prevent GSA, I will up my NO3 to around 5/6 ppm and keep PO4 around .6.
(10:1)
I will try to find urea and NH4 to add to my NO3 to bring Nitrate to the 5 ppm wanted.
kekon mix (ratio): 
1 ppm NO3
0.33 ppm urea
0.1 ppm NH4
—> Strike 2... :mrgreen: 

In my next project ( If God want) :angel: (big tank, around 500 gal) I will go with a nutritive and high CEC substrat ( that is mixing in my head for now) and go with the leaner water column in nutrients my plants tolerate.
—> Strike 3... :mrgreen:
This is the law of evolution
Or the demise of a disturb brain exacerbate by losing battle against the simplest organisms on the planet. (they must hiding some secret...)

If it don’t work I switch to a terrarium...
:icon_hang


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Long live cyanobacteria!!! (Someplace else, please)

You sure have a lot of light for using lean nutrients. Why not try to go to 20 ppm or more NO3 and 2-3 ppm or more phosphate? Higher nitrate helps get rid of cyanobacteria, and higher PO4 helps get rid of GSA. Also, make sure you have enough CO2 in the water, by using a drop checker, with 4dKH water in it from http://liquidarthome.net/khstandard. Then I will bet your algae problems become much more manageable.


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## Glouglou (Feb 21, 2006)

Everything is growing good and fast, I try the higher nutrient route with not to much success, Crinckled leaves on ludwigia and other problems with rotala indica an elodea.

The only problem is GSA, I will try to go the kekon way and see.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Hmmm...how about using a ultraviolet sterilizer. From what I understand, it will prevent the growth of Cynaobacteria and most other types of algae. I found that it does not work to prevent diatom algae and brush algae, but my ottos were quick to devour the diatom and brush algae.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Homer_Simpson said:


> Hmmm...how about using a ultraviolet sterilizer. From what I understand, it will prevent the growth of Cynaobacteria and most other types of algae. I found that it does not work to prevent diatom algae and brush algae, but my ottos were quick to devour the diatom and brush algae.


You made my eyes light up with that! Have you tried a UV sterilizer as a remedy for GDA? I have wondered if it would kill the free swimming spores after I clean off the glass. If it works, I'm willing to spend whatever it takes to get one.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

hoppycalif said:


> You made my eyes light up with that! Have you tried a UV sterilizer as a remedy for GDA? I have wondered if it would kill the free swimming spores after I clean off the glass. If it works, I'm willing to spend whatever it takes to get one.


. No, but I have an extra one lieing around and am tempted to test it on my 10 gallon. As my 10 gallon has started to develop green/brown(it is not diatom because the ottos seem unable to make a dent in it) dust algae. Right now, I have a UV sterilizer running in my 59 gallon and 20 gallon. I am in the process of converting the 59 gallon into a fully planted tank. With the exception of diatom and brush algae(which the ottos and sae seem to be cleaning up), I find that no other algae seems to form in these two tanks. There is no sign of any Green Dust Algae in either the 20 gallon or 59 gallon. For experimental purposes, I purposely purchased some plants with Cynobacteria and threw them in the 59 gallon to see if the UV sterilizer would prevent its spread and guess what the Cyno disappeared off the plant overnight and I saw no signs of it spreading anywhere. It just disappeared. I then threw in some plants with Green String/Hair Algae. Again, almost overnight the green string/hair algae disappeared. I know the SAE was not responsible as he avoided the GSA and Cyno like the plague. The only thing that I was concerned about was I had read somewhere that UV sterilizers can interfere with plant growth and plant fertilizer absorption. However, in my case I believe that poor plant growth in my 59 gallon tank was more due to poor lighting as the symptoms the plants were displaying were classic text book insufficient light symptoms. Once I have enough lighting, combined with high plant density, PPS-PRO, and pressurized C02 injection, the true test of how well the UV sterilizer works to keep all kinds of algae at bay will be known.

Regards


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## Glouglou (Feb 21, 2006)

I think the UV will kill most of the crap swiming around, we know il will not impact on good bacteria that live in substrat and filter (they are not to much free swiming).They will kill us (if the light was big enough (thanks to the ozone layer). They kill some some bad guys that give sickness to fish. the only drawback I see is the continuous use of it, it’s the oxidation effect on heavy metal like iron.

But I’m sure, if you use a UV light for 2 to 3 hours after you scrape your glass and disturb a little bit filters, plants, soils etc it will remove a lot of the algae and keep them at bay. (maybe just dose some Micro/iron after used. 

Somebody try it with succes????

Can we buy peace....?

Diatoms, brush algae as not as free swiming compare to GDA, GSA (after scraping), Cyano.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Homer_Simpson said:


> . Once I have enough lighting, combined with high plant density, PPS-PRO, and pressurized C02 injection, the true test of how well the UV sterilizer works to keep all kinds of algae at bay will be known.
> 
> Regards


Please, keep us up to date on your results. I'm willing to buy a UV unit, but I don't really want to stick it in the filter return along with my external reactor, unless I feel pretty sure it will be effective.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

hoppycalif said:


> Please, keep us up to date on your results. I'm willing to buy a UV unit, but I don't really want to stick it in the filter return along with my external reactor, unless I feel pretty sure it will be effective.


*Will do.* When I got rid of my giant severum in my 20 gallon to convert the tank into a community tank with various fish, I was not planning on having a live plant tank. I inadevertently introduced sick fish(some rams that I believe had gill flukes) and before you know it, my otherwise healthy fish began to mysteriously die. In the morning they would be on the subsrate rapidly gasping. I could see the fish scratching up against ornaments the day before they died. Although the gasping is sometimes a sigh of high ammonia or nitrites, in this case It was not the water parameters because the tank was fully cycled and ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates tested 0. Also, the tank had aeration via a bubble curtain and ornaments so it was not lack of oxygen. Even when the fish were gasping and I tested water, ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates tested 0. Adding salt and raising the tank temp did not seem to help, and neither did increasing water changes. It was a forgone conclusion that there were water borne parasites in the tank and my option was to start over by tearing the tank apart, bleaching it, bleach cleaning all the ornaments, and starting with new gravel. I did not want to go through this hassle and realized that a UV sterilizer may fix the problem. So, I purchased one. And all the sudden, the fish deaths mysteriously stopped. I thought if introducing new fish carries any risk that nasty water borne parasites could infect my healthy fish and kill them, then a UV sterilizer was worth the expense. So, I ended up buying one for my 59 gallon tank as a preventative eventhough I had no problems with the fish in that tank. I believe that was the best money I spent to protect my fish from any parasite infected fish introduced into the tank. Hey and I started adding live plants, so the fact that it can prevent most kinds of algae is a bonus.

Regards


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## JamesC (Jul 26, 2005)

A UV won't do very much against algae except of course green water. Some people recommend running it for 24 hours after a water change, pruning, tank maintanence, etc to reduce the algae spore level. I've used one for years and have never found it made any difference to algae if it was turned on or off. Just use it now to keep the water crystal clear. 

How do you manage to measure NO3 and PO4 so accurately? You're getting cyanobacteria because your nitrates are so low. A blackout may be necessary to clear it but you're going to have to dose more nitrate to prevent it reappearing. Same with GSA, dose more PO4. With dosing EI I had to get levels over 2ppm PO4 to prevent GSA - well thats what the test kit read.

With high light you are treading a very fine line with low nutrient levels. It can be done but requires a good dosing strategy.

James


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## Glouglou (Feb 21, 2006)

Any algae or anything alive that will be free floating after scraping or cleaning up your thank and other nasty parasites ( algae always pass trough a spore stage) going trough a uv light will have problems. (even if some algae find ingenious tricks to protect themselves to UV light)

Ourself, without the ozone layer we will probably disappear or have to live underground to be protect against the uv light from the sun. 

For sure, algae that is stuck somewhere will not even feel the difference with the uv light. But the same algae exposed to the UV light long enough will perish. Theoretically a uv light properly used will always be beneficial.

For the theory of GSA going away with more PO4, I went to 1.5, 2 ppm without significant result on the GSA and no apparition of cyano, The (old water) myth, worsen the problem. 

I think availability in the water column and ratio (levels depend of the demand of the particular tank) can really help....


The only thing bother me is the oxydation of iron and the beakdown of the chelated bond in copper (iron to) (copper treatment and trace)


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## Peteman (May 28, 2007)

Yes UV light does work on GDA, but you have to leave it on for days and clean the glass. One pass through the UV filter doesn't kill 100% and of course anything on the glass doesn't go through the filter. 

But in my experience I have found running the UV gives me iron def problems, lots of people don't see this on their tanks and don't believe it, I wish I was one as I get it every time.

The GDA always comes back. Can take a while and it's hurt, but so far has always managed to come back.

Pete.


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## Glouglou (Feb 21, 2006)

Yes Peteman, The Iron ansd other metal is to be beleive it’s a scientific fact. Talking to you I just remember that microfiltration will do exactly the same (and maybe better) as the UV without the nasty chemical reaction.

An the unmbalance that keep this algae (or any other keep coming)

I will continue with the first part of my thread to see what happen...


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## hooha (Apr 21, 2005)

in my experience, UV doesn't help with green dust algae. I'll wipe it off, vacuum as much as I can and it will still come back in a few days on the glass and plant leaves....


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