# Troubleshoot my newish 1.5gal Walstad, and help me save my java fern?



## Endler'sGame (Aug 25, 2020)

I set up my first dirted tank about 5 months ago after a couple months of reading, and even though I read many threads on this and other forums posted by people who lamented their alterations to the standard setup- I made alterations to the standard setup and I'm lamenting them!

My 2 major sins were:
1. I used un-mineralized COMPOST for my dirt because I couldn't source organic potting soil anywhere nearby (resulting in far too many nutrients in the water column? Algae has been a bear!)
2. I left problems unaddressed for weeks at a time due to being a nurse and not having the time or energy for tank maintenance

Currently I'm battling diatoms, cyanobacteria (aka, BGA), and I noticed last week that my favorite plant, the windelov java fern and all of his little plantlets that were doing great have gone from happy and healthy looking to sporting dark brown spots (not spore sites, I'm pretty sure) and brown tips.



















Could the java fern be showing damage from a hydrogen peroxide treatment (which worked to kill off a bad filamentous algae infestation) I did almost 2 months ago? It was fine for over a month after the treatment. Nutrient deficiency? I treated with fenbendazole a month and a half ago for planaria, could that have done it?

The Tank:

1.5 gallon acrylic bowfront
9w 5000k LED screw in bulb about 5" above the surface of the water (a total of 8hrs light with a 4hr siesta in the middle)

No stock (maybe another mistake of mine?)

3/4" compost layer capped with 3/4" traction sand.

Plants: Dwarf hairgrass (taking over the whole tank, doing incredibly well), anubias nana (seems happy, growing new leaves and sending roots into substrate), java fern (see above worries), a few stalks of emerged water wisteria (the submerged stalks have slowly died off), pothos and gold ribbon both sitting with just the roots submerged

Water parameters were not tested until about 3 months ago and have remained consistently as below with very rare water changes:
Ammonia: 0-0.25ppm
Nitrites: 0ppm
Nitrates: 0ppm
pH: 8.2 (tap water is 7.4)
No gH test but water is very hard well water.

My main concern right now is figuring out what's wrong with the java ferns, but also, do ya'll think I need to just restart the whole tank with proper potting soil substrate and a less silicate rich cap? Open to all suggestions, thank you all!

(picture below taken a month ago, BGA has taken hold in the left front corner and under the anubias nana)


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

I can say from experience that Java fern is sensitive to H2O2. You'll see black and brown spots in the leaves from the treatment.


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## Endler'sGame (Aug 25, 2020)

mistergreen said:


> I can say from experience that Java fern is sensitive to H2O2. You'll see black and brown spots in the leaves from the treatment.


Drat! Everything was suffocating under that filamentous algae but I probably could have painstakingly picked and brushed it all off instead of hurting my favorite plants. Thanks though, at least I know that the new growth should be okay.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

First of all, just need to say that your username is amazing.

Secondly, the DHG looks amazing! I've never been able to get that kind of growth from it. It definitely doesn't look like the tank is a disaster or needs to be scrapped. There may be extra nutrients in the water, as you mentioned - to combat this, maybe invest in some more floating plants to help soak them up. To help with algae, maybe try dimming your light more. It may be worth your other plants growing a bit slower to get control of the algae. 

Lack of stock probably isn't hurting you at this point since your substrate is so rich. If you're not adding nutrients, the substrate may run out at some point in the future, but you can always deal with that later. Right now, if algae is growing, I guess you probably still have plenty of nutrients.

Anubias and Java Fern are very slow growing, so I think they'll have the most trouble with the algae. It may be that you need to re-introduce them when your tank is more settled. Some plants also may just not thrive in your tank for whatever reason, that's normal.

I might suggest some more strongly-rooted plants, like dwarf sagg or pygmy chain sword. I think DHG doesn't have a very deep root system, so it might not be making full use of the substrate, and it's important in a NPT to have a very healthy root system. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about DHG; like I said, I haven't been successful with it in my limited past experience


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## Daz (Aug 15, 2020)

Yes, add some floating plants, that will dim the light a bit. The anubia and java fern may actually do better in lower light since your tank apparently has a low CO2 production, which will keep decreasing over time because you are not feeding it. I'd suggest you add trumpet and ramshorn snails, and even an apple snail, and feed them with boiled leaf vegetables.
For some reason I keep seeing tanks dominated by dwarf hairgrass that have algae problems more often than not (even high tech tanks), apparently this plant is not good at suppressing algae growth.


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## Endler'sGame (Aug 25, 2020)

jatcar95 said:


> First of all, just need to say that your username is amazing.
> 
> Secondly, the DHG looks amazing! I've never been able to get that kind of growth from it. It definitely doesn't look like the tank is a disaster or needs to be scrapped. There may be extra nutrients in the water, as you mentioned - to combat this, maybe invest in some more floating plants to help soak them up. To help with algae, maybe try dimming your light more. It may be worth your other plants growing a bit slower to get control of the algae.
> 
> ...


Ha, thanks! I was kind of surprised the username was available, because who doesn't love both of the references?? When I'm ready my next Walstad will be a 20L so I can finally have endlers again!
And I honestly don't know why the DHG has taken off so well, I really like it though!

Anyway, I really appreciate your in depth analysis! I ended up doing a massive cleaning and rescape today in an attempt to remove BGA/cyanobacteria. It wasn't out of control but I can't stand the smell of it which is one of the main reasons I thought about starting over.

I moved a lot of the DHG to the areas that were worst effected by the BGA to reduce the amount of light hitting the substrate and in doing so discovered that you're right about their shallow root systems, occasionally there were a few long roots but for the most part they only went about 3/4" deep.

I just purchased some dwarf sag. on eBay, I love excuses to buy more plants! Already on the way are hornwort for excess nutrients and ramshorn snails to clean up biofilm and maybe prevent BGA from taking hold so easily.

I've also added the little heater I had to boost the temp from the mid 60s and hopefully give the plants more of an advantage over the nasty cyanobacteria, put in an airline to increase circulation (IIRC that's supposed to help?), and reduced light time from 8hrs to 6hrs while I wait for new plants to arrive.

We shall see if the slimy stuff comes back, fingers crossed!


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## Endler'sGame (Aug 25, 2020)

Daz said:


> Yes, add some floating plants, that will dim the light a bit. The anubia and java fern may actually do better in lower light since your tank apparently has a low CO2 production, which will keep decreasing over time because you are not feeding it. I'd suggest you add trumpet and ramshorn snails, and even an apple snail, and feed them with boiled leaf vegetables.
> For some reason I keep seeing tanks dominated by dwarf hairgrass that have algae problems more often than not (even high tech tanks), apparently this plant is not good at suppressing algae growth.


Thank you for the input! I bought ramshorn snails and hornwort which should arrive early next week. I'm also noticing that the areas with the worst algae and cyanobacteria get some indirect natural light during siesta time, I'll try to figure out a solution to that. Right now the tank is in the only spot that makes sense but it might be time to build a stand in a better location.

ETA: I've had no success with true floating plants in this tank; even duckweed died out! The only thing I can figure is allelopathilogical warfare from the established plants.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

Endler'sGame said:


> I've had no success with true floating plants in this tank; even duckweed died out! The only thing I can figure is allelopathilogical warfare from the established plants.


Hmm, I suppose that's possible, but I kind of doubt it...duckweed is such a terminator plant. I wonder if not feeding the tank means there isn't enough nutrients in the water for floating plants. Maybe try Daz's advice and add some snails, and feed them regularly (even just fish food if you don't want to boil veggies every time). MTS are a wonderful addition to any NPT, since they also help dig around the substrate a bit.

I also have to bring this up, even though in my case it was affecting salvinia and not duckweed - I had an iron deficiency in my water, and when I started adding seachem iron on a weekly basis, my floating plants absolutely exploded in growth. Hard to say if that's an issue here (not to add another worry to the list xD), but maybe something to consider.


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## Daz (Aug 15, 2020)

In my current tank, the floaters (even duckweed) were the last ones to start growing, only after the 3d or 4th month they slowly started gaining momentum and nowadays they do great. I can't be sure if it was due to the lower temperatures when I setup this tank or because the tank needed to mature before floaters could grow.

You don't need to boil the greens everyday, just separate a bit from what are cooking for yourself, chop it, boil it without adding salt, spread it, let it try a bit and then freeze it. Letting it dry a bit is important because otherwise when you freeze it you would end up with a solid block of ice. Stick to leaf vegetables, because other vegetables are high on carbs and could cause a bacterial bloom (you really don't need more blooming stuff in your tank, unless it's a plant). Start with one small portion a day that should get consumed within 4 hours.


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## seadreamer90 (Jan 19, 2011)

I too love your username, and I too have never successfully grown any floater (except my current teeny tiny village of wolffia). I don’t have enough experience to offer any advice. Just wanted to chime in to a fellow floater-challenged aquarium keeper.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

seadreamer90 said:


> I too love your username, and I too have never successfully grown any floater (except my current teeny tiny village of wolffia). I don't have enough experience to offer any advice. Just wanted to chime in to a fellow floater-challenged aquarium keeper.


Jury's still out on my _wolffia_ colony. They certainly were not what I was expecting when I ordered "duckweed" so, I'm not completely sold on the idea of it completely covering the surface of the tank. OTOH, if they help reduce the nitrate level of my five zebra danio bowl, I will thankfully welcome their dominance.


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## Endler'sGame (Aug 25, 2020)

Regarding the floaters, I forgot that the duckweed got taken over by cyanobacteria during a 5 day stretch of 13hr shifts, that was on me. Even after taking it out and rinsing off the slime it never recovered, just got grown over again more slowly (I was still thinking the BGA was true algae at that time and also way overworked so just let it be for way too long)

Thank you *Daz* for the CO2 info, once the snails arrive I'll feed boiled spinach and use up some old betta flakes to provide some organic matter to the system. I figured with an algae problem there were plenty of nutrients, but I didn't consider the need for CO2.

I really appreciate the time and encouragement, thank you, fellow aquarists!

(have to make a semi emergent run to a Walmart today for household reasons, a great excuse to grab organic potting soil -for the garden, obviously- and see what kind of glass containers might be available for purchase...) :eyebrows:


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

seadreamer90 said:


> I too love your username, and I too have never successfully grown any floater (except my current teeny tiny village of wolffia). I don't have enough experience to offer any advice. Just wanted to chime in to a fellow floater-challenged aquarium keeper.


Problem with floaters is usually from iron deficiency. Plants need a lot of iron. At the same time, iron is very insoluble in water. (In the presence of oxygen, soluble iron forms insoluble iron oxides, which plants cannot use.)

Rooted plants are fine, because they can get iron from the anaerobic substrate containing soluble iron.

To help floating plants, you can add a micronutrient fertilizer or a chelated iron fertilizer. Watch out, though, because you can also stimulate algae by adding iron fertilizers to the water. Add just enough to see recovery of floating plants before adding more.

In my book, I discuss the role of iron in algae control.


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## FromReefs2Plants (Aug 14, 2017)

I wish there wasn't duckweed in my tank! I am jealous of all tanks that don't have it. I never added, never saw it (visablly) on any plants I bought. Lo and behold there it is and it grows like crazy. 

I finally got a different strain of floating plant, its similar to duckweed but has much larger leaves. I make sure to not scoop that out when scooping out the duckweed. I have installed a ring of silicone tubing that does a good job of corralling the duckweed. 

If you're thinking of a new setup, I would take your time getting the soil just right. I described that in the early pages of my 55g build if you want to check it out. 

I was lazy with it, but i let the soil do soil things for 3 months. I ended up with like 1/3 or so of what I started with. It was super fine soil when it was done "processing". No algae issues ever, I rarely do water changes as well!


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## Endler'sGame (Aug 25, 2020)

FromReefs2Plants said:


> I wish there wasn't duckweed in my tank! I am jealous of all tanks that don't have it. I never added, never saw it (visablly) on any plants I bought. Lo and behold there it is and it grows like crazy.
> 
> I finally got a different strain of floating plant, its similar to duckweed but has much larger leaves. I make sure to not scoop that out when scooping out the duckweed. I have installed a ring of silicone tubing that does a good job of corralling the duckweed.
> 
> ...


Your thread was a fun read with my morning coffee, your tank looks great! I'll probably do something very similar to your method, the results speak for themselves. :thumbsup:

I was unable to find organic potting soil that did not contain a 'wetting agent' (I want to have neocaridina shrimp eventually so don't want to take any chances). But, I do still have the the original bag of organic compost so I'll be starting a long, drawn out process of repeat soaking and drying to mineralize some soil for the two 1 gallon bowls I bought for eventual plant overflow. I know the hornwort is going to take over the current nano very quickly and I'd hate to waste plants.

I hope to grow out enough in these nanos (and various other non-aesthetically pleasing containers if need be) to heavily plant a 20 long sometime around next winter. But not counting on anything at this point, first things first get the first tank looking happy.

---------------------------

In cyano-battle news I haven't seen a resurgence yet! I did not end up turning on that little heater, I will before the ramshorn snails arrive but for now I don't want to boost bacterial growth with higher heat (tank sits at about 60-64f in these cold winter months). I'm poking substrate daily to introduce oxygenated water, and the airline is creating a visible current on the plants so hopefully I can prevent anaerobic conditions from forming again. I'll be curious to see if the dwarf sag. will send roots through the entire depth of the substrate, but for future nano setups I'll do about half the depth of the current substrate so the DHG will do the aerating for me. I also took all of the little java fern plantlets that were pretty coated in cyanobacteria and gave them a really good rinsing in the sink, placed them in a jar of clean water and will leave them in the dark for a week to hopefully kill off the bacteria.

Glad to not be starting over from scratch!


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