# ADD Angelfish



## overboard (Mar 11, 2008)

The other night my son was in a full meltdown over homework, and I looked over to my 50 gallon tank by the kitchen table, to stay calm. What did I see but a big anubia leaf, covered with eggs, and my two angelfish spawning away! We watched for a while and they seemed to be doing everything right- fanning the eggs, mouthing but not eating, chasing the other fish away, etc. Later that night I watched as the lights went out, and the minute they did their behavior changed. See, due to the precision of Coralife'e electronic timer/strips, this tank goes out about five minutes before the one at right angles to it. So as soon as the 50 goes out, every night, all of the fish suddenly seem to see the gang in the 29 gallon and swim over to that end to look. Well of course the angels went with the rest of them and I think they might have forgotten about the eggs. I couldn't see when they were eaten, but in the morning they were all gone. First time parent mistake, or did I not get the brightest fish?


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Leaving at least some sort of light on in a tank with eggs or fry will help quite a bit. First time angel parents start to see their eggs as a potential snack pretty quickly. "We better eat them before someone else does"  

To have much success you'll need to remove them to hatch artificially or remove all the other critters from their tank. Watching them actually raise fry is enormously rewarding but sadly it's pretty uncommon in the hobby these days.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Congrats! If they did it once, they'll probably do it again.

I agree with leaving some sort of light on for them at night. It doesn't have to be your full lighting, but some sort of small lamp or something often does the trick.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Usually most new parent cichlids eat the first few batches of eggs and then somehow realize they should be raising the fry. Losing 3-5 spawns is usual in my experience before the parents cotton on and defend the fry to adulthood. I've seen this with angels, convicts, acaras, kribs, pelvichromis', and many many different kinds of apistos.

My angels just spawned as well in my 125g for the first time. Strangely they are actually very good parents and haven't eaten any babies yet. The babies are now about a week old and are free swimming.


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## starrystarstarr (Dec 18, 2008)

my angles always ate the eggs


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## overboard (Mar 11, 2008)

I felt bad for them because the tank is overcrowded and somewhat boisterous, but there isn't much I can do about it right now. There are five fish that I would like out, but can't catch when I want to.
I have a 20 long with a pair of kribs that haven't spawned yet, but after all of your comments, I am wondering if they have and have eaten them a few times. Guess I better figure out some sort of light, maybe the little round LED ones. Thanks everyone!


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## Wet Pet (Mar 9, 2009)

I have found that hatching the eggs in a separate tank is the best way. It is fun to watch them raise the fry but if there are other tankmates the fry usually end up being a snack.


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## zdam20 (Mar 8, 2009)

Will angles actually raise fry to maturity in a community tank?


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

zdam20 said:


> Will angles actually raise fry to maturity in a community tank?


Nope. Very, very unlikely.


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

Angels will eat the eggs... whereas angles end up accidentally poking them.
sorry. had to.


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## zdam20 (Mar 8, 2009)

No prob.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

zdam20 said:


> Will angles actually raise fry to maturity in a community tank?


I know it's not the norm, but my friends Angels used to raise their fry in community tanks all the time.
http://www.vickisaquaticplace.com/Angelfish.html
These photos don't show the other tank mates, but I was there and she also had Kribs, Rummies, Cory's, and Bristlenoses in the tank/s. They were great parents and defended their "kids" from the other fish just like you'd see in the wild.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Jan that's cool. I'd LOVE to see that happen. I been most impressed with the way my dwarf chiclids have been raising fry in a tank with congos, huge SAE's, rummies, and all sorts of other fish. How the fry survive is beyond me. Maybe it's not impossible with angels but I've never had a whiff of luck with it. OTOH, I've raised thousands of them apart from their parents.


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## davemill (May 3, 2004)

I don't think its possible for the most devoted angel parents to protect eggs through hatching in a community tank, let alone raise fry. Many angels have spawned in my community tank, but the eggs never last more than a few hours. The parents don't eat the eggs, or don't get a chance!


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

the babies in my angel tank are no more. The tank isn't a community tank, just other angels. So it seems that they also have difficulty in tanks with any tank mates .

How are your fish doing?


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## overboard (Mar 11, 2008)

They started up again last night, but I never saw the eggs this time, just the behavior. Maybe later this spring I will take the kribs in the 20 gallon back to the LFS, keep the danios so it stays cycled, and wait. When I get a leaf full of eggs, I will toss the danios in a tub outside, and see if I can raise the fry in that tank. There would be dwarf cories and snails to clean up extra food. Sounds like it is worth a try...


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## wkndracer (Mar 23, 2008)

overboard said:


> They started up again last night, but I never saw the eggs this time, just the behavior. Maybe later this spring I will take the kribs in the 20 gallon back to the LFS, keep the danios so it stays cycled, and wait. When I get a leaf full of eggs, I will toss the danios in a tub outside, and see if I can raise the fry in that tank. There would be dwarf cories and snails to clean up extra food. Sounds like it is worth a try...


Totally different side to the hobby (into both myself)

Angelfish Care / Angelfish Breeding - The Angelfish Forum II - Focused on Freshwater Angelfish. 
http://www.angelfish.net/VBulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=7 
hope the link is alright with the moderators as its not in competition with plant forums

As of last year our tank group grew. 2-75g, 1-55g, 10g starter. I've raised baby angels in a community tank,,, correction the fish did. Last year hence the new tanks. Its very stressful for everybody. This happened in my 55g tank and the parents took it over TOTALLY once they laid the eggs on a sword leave they took turns fanning the eggs and beating all the other fish into the far corner of the tank. This behavior lasted right through wiggler stage. Once they were free swimming we ended up adding one of the small fry net boxes in one corner of the tank. Using a turkey baster we sucked the babies from the plant the parents were keeping them against and put them in the fry box. The parents continued guarding them even in the box splashing and hitting at the box every time we feed the babies. Beat the daylights out of all the other fish in the tank protecting them. After 24 days of this we had 23 babies left and a VERY stressed tank and ended up losing mature fish over it. Transferred first two a ten gallon bare tank then the new 75g. Kept 6 But like I said we lost mature fish including the marble male that mated. They wore themselves out (and everybody else) guarding the fry.


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## overboard (Mar 11, 2008)

That is what I would see happening with mine... I had to take a younger angel out the other night, because it had been challenging and harassing the female for two days. I put it in with a group of rowdy barbs and everything is fine. The tank the spawning angels are in has pearl gouramis, dwarf gouramis, SAEs, CAEs, Yo-yos, a krib, and bumblebee gobies. The last three species would probably pick off the fry, while the angels torment the higher swimmers. The tank is definitely overcrowded... (the dwarf gouramis were the last addition- I haven't seen healthy nice ones in a few years, and these just stopped me dead in my tracks at a Petsmart, of all places. Stunning classic dwarfs, with cobalt blue chests and beautiful body shape. Had to get two...)


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## overboard (Mar 11, 2008)

So I came home yesterday after a long day of work, to find that the power had flickered sometime in the morning and three of six filters had quit running, and the angels had spawned again. I got all of the filters going again and kept an eye on the angels. They had picked a leaf high in a corner, which was easier to defend, except that it was the feeding corner, and it was also right by some of the filters where I was working. They basically got mobbed. I cut off a piece of the leaf and put it in a clip in a different tank. This one has only CPDs and the tiniest cories, hastatus I think. It also has two small threadfin rainbows. There were about fifteen eggs... now there are none. I saw a pond snail definitely eat two, they probably ate them all. So now I have to figure out how to suspend the leaf out away from the sides, I guess.


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## wkndracer (Mar 23, 2008)

Without the parents in attendance to guard all things aquatic love fish eggs 
Even cute little corries. Also with only 15 eggs on the leaf the spawn was probably interrupted and not complete.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Congrats on the new batch! My angels also spawned a few days ago too. I've got wrigglers!


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## overboard (Mar 11, 2008)

Lost all of these, but I have a few things to try for next time. I read somewhere they can spawn 25 times a year, and mine seem to be right on schedule. If they keep it up, I can easily have an empty, cycled tank ready. Except for the snails... there will always be snails. Maybe if I put the whole leaf in a breeder net, with a top, near the filter outflow...

Why don't snails eat their own eggs?


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## wkndracer (Mar 23, 2008)

I know this is some what troubling to you, trying to secure a hatch, it will happen. The link I provided in an earlier post covers most all aspects of this. One of those options is to remove the eggs and place them in a quart jar with an air stone for circulation. Attach the jar somehow inside your aquarium at the lip in a corner (maintains temperature) This method is fully explained on the angel fish site along with others. Even a bar bottom 10 gallon tank is to large for free swimmers to find the food, most will starve. (makes me wonder how they survive in the wild)


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## Uncle Rico (Oct 22, 2007)

I actually had angels successfully spawn and raise their fry to adulthood in a community tank (more, raise them to a size where they were too big for anything to eat, then ignore them, and then eventually bully them.) This was done on an amazon sword (not a ceramic slate which I think is lame). They ate their eggs the first few times and the next few times they allowed all their fry to get eaten (didnt protect them well). It was really fun watching the parents learn and eventually become sucessful. They would grab the wanderers in their mouth and spit them back toward the swarm of babies. I think people are too obsessed with removing the eggs and using an airstone and fungicide etc. Unless you are in the business of breeding angels, I think it is better as a hobbysist to let the parents do it "naturally" (well as natural as you can get in an aquarium. If the whole point of letting them breed is for fun, why sacrifice the rewarding experience of letting the parents raise them just to boost your numbers. Not only is it a lot more work raising them yourself, if you end up with 100 baby fry, you'll have the problem of where to house them or where to get rid of them. The only thing I did differently with my tank is I used a turkey baster to feed the fry "baby fish food" once their yolk sacs ran out(didnt even use baby brine shrimp as the main food source, though it is fun to watch them eat BBS).


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