# TC experimentation



## neilshieh

I'll post pictures today but I thought I'd make a thread about my TC experience as I go along with it. took some time to gather the materials but I finally got them all! 
First things first, basic info regarding how to do TC
primarily I used the following sites: (http://kryptokoryne.aquaticscape.com/2010/03/29/cryptocoryne-tissue-culture-micropropagation-part-2/......http://www.flytrapcare.com/phpBB3/tissue-culture-faq-t1426.html)

and Carol M. Stiff (owner of kck http://www.kitchenculturekit.com/index.htm)
was nice enough to help me with gathering my materials and also emailed me tons of info on the process and scientific articles of TC done on aquatic plants. If anyone needs those feel free to pm me, or i'll just upload all of them onto mediafire/dropbox later to make it more convenient.

List of materials gathered:
pressure cooker
magenta B caps (similar to phyto caps for baby food jars)
6oz glass baby food jars washed and with the sticker removed
IBA hormone
BAP-6 hormone
PPM (i have like 40 ml of this lol... bought 30 from ppm and carol gave me 10 ml)
MS basal salt mixture with vitamins
Agar (I have two types of agar, agar that carol gave me and agar from ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/18-grams-of-High-Pure-Agar-Powder-for-preparing-60-90-mmx15-mm-petri-dishes-/140899161417?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20ce3e9549))
new stainless steel pincettes also from carol
bunch of plastic pipettes

i think that's about it....
I plan on experimenting with some rotalas first and if those are successful I want to try my hand at propagating my anubias variegated and stardust.


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## cah925

Good luck! I played around with P helferi in tissue culture in the lab at UF. Sterilizing the plant prior to culturing was the hardest part. I finally got 1 small piece to grow after several weeks of trying. After that, it was a piece of cake to subculture over and over.


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## neilshieh

forgot to mention that instead of using a ph meter I plan to use beer making ph strips (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...045573.m570.l1313&_nkw=beer+ph+strip&_sacat=0)
the usuable range is perfect for the range that TC requires.


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## bigstick120

You should have said something, I have a bunch of stuff sitting here collecting dust. Used it once and then never again!


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## neilshieh

shoot i got too busy but anyhow, here are the pictures of the materials
here are the baby food jars (6oz) with the regular lids and the magenta b caps (same thing as the phyto caps)








as you can see... the caps are actually like push on. At first i thought they screwed on but i guess not, it slides on very snugly and feels legit.








beer ph testing strips. these were cheap, 8 dollars shipped from ebay and since i need a ph of 5.7 this is perfect because the color differences are VERY obvious and it's a narrow range








vinegar, 70% rubbing alcohol, new SS forceps from carol, and graduated plastic pipettes for the hormones








here's laboratory grade agar i bought from ebay but apparently it's much more "professional" than what's needed for TC  it was pretty cheap so it doesn't really matter. the purpose of agar is to thicken the MS solution and keep the explant from sinking. People are reported using coffee filter paper to be successful as well since it still delivers the medium to the explant and surports it.








plant hormones and the MS+vitamins, PPM, and agar from Carol
I bought 30 ml of agar from the company that makes ppm (plant preservative mixture) and it was 1 dollar/ml. very expensive x_x so as a note to those who want to try TC, just buy it from Carol on kitchen culture kits. she rebottles them into smaller 10 ml leak proof bottles as pictured. The hormone concentrations are 1 g/L and are likewise bottled in leak proof bottles. The hormones and MS and ppm and Agar *MUST BE* refrigerated.


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## Plant Freak

Wow nice work, I will like to see all the process. Keep up the good work.


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## AaronT

What do you plant to use for a hood? There's a special clear tape you can wrap tight around the lid to make an even better seal. I forget what it's called though.

I know Ghazanfar was successful with Lagenandra meeboldii 'Pink' and the Crypt nurii that everyone has now. He mentioned it took about 10 plants to get one clean explant. As mentioned above it seems the hardest part is getting the plants sterile to begin with, which is why I think it's wise to start with stems because you don't have to use a part of the plant that is near the soil, such as with Crypts or other rosette plants. 

Heck, if you can get ahold of some of the ones already in production, i.e. Tropica 1-2-Grow you could start by simply splitting one of those out as it's already sterile.


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## neilshieh

yeah too bad most micro propagation dealing with aquatic plants are not in the US. e.g. anubias, aquaflora, and tropica. I've been talking to some people who've done it and they all said it was very very hard. I'll continue to read the documents Carol Stiff sent me and hopefully they will help. anyone interested in those?


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## asukawashere

The sterilization part is all that's holding me back from trying to TC my more unusual plants. I'm not much one for having sterile lab conditions... keeping a few germs around builds immunity! 

Still, I'd really like to try it out with some of my Buces or something similar one day... I don't much see the point of using tissue culture to propagate stem plants, since they can be grown quickly and effectively using normal propagation techniques. IMO, it's only worth it for slower-growing, more expensive plants.

Anyway, let us know how things go, Neil! Literature only tells you so much, it's much cooler to see these things in action with photos and a firsthand account.


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## AaronT

asukawashere said:


> I don't much see the point of using tissue culture to propagate stem plants, since they can be grown quickly and effectively using normal propagation techniques. IMO, it's only worth it for slower-growing, more expensive plants.


I think the idea is to practice with something easier to sterilize. If done properly you can still propagate thousands of stems over the course of a year. That's a lot more than I can grow conventionally.


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## asukawashere

I'm not trying to suggest Neil shouldn't try out the Rotala first, just that after a few experiments to get the hang of it, I don't really see the point in continuing to do so when there are so many other plants that make for a more worthwhile result for all that effort... those Anubias sp. 'stardust' sound like a pretty cool idea to me!

TC's definitely not necessary for even large commercial-scale propagation, though. I've observed commercial stem growing facilities in action (admittedly, they were for herbs instead of aquatics, but the same principles apply)-they use cuttings and dirt. I've absolutely no doubt that if I _wanted_ to, I could generate a few thousand stems of a species in a year using conventional means. I just don't know what I'd actually _do_ with all of them afterwards LOL.


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## JeffyFunk

Frank W. commented on TPT that anubias are not able to be propagated by TC because they coexist with a beneficial bacteral species and hence, are not able to survive the sterilization step. I have no idea if this is true or not but just thought I'd let u know what he said and let u figure out if it's true or not.


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## neilshieh

JeffyFunk said:


> Frank W. commented on TPT that anubias are not able to be propagated by TC because they coexist with a beneficial bacteral species and hence, are not able to survive the sterilization step. I have no idea if this is true or not but just thought I'd let u know what he said and let u figure out if it's true or not.


I've actually been talking to some Asian growers and propagation of Anubias/bucephalandra species is definitely viable. check out this link, they offer anubias varieties in TC. e.g. anubias gabon, anubias butterfly, etc.
http://translate.google.com/transla...=http://www.aquaprincessthailand.com/&act=url


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## asukawashere

I have heard something vague about aroids requiring a different growth hormone than other cultures, but nothing about a bacteria (if they need it to coexist, for that matter, why would it only be on the outside of the plant material?)

I do know that many orchids require the presence of this or that microbe to germinate, but that's only when you try to grow them from seeds/seed material. TC using other parts of the plant works just fine.


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## K Randall

JeffyFunk said:


> Frank W. commented on TPT that anubias are not able to be propagated by TC because they coexist with a beneficial bacteral species and hence, are not able to survive the sterilization step. I have no idea if this is true or not but just thought I'd let u know what he said and let u figure out if it's true or not.


Absoltely NOT true. Tropica considers Anubias their "green gold" because they can propagate it so much faster using TC. Frank has this one completely wrong.

I can show you all photos of Anubias in TC at Tropica (and elsewhere) if anyone is intersted... Just not from my iPad, so it will have to wait until I'm back on my desktop computer.


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## neilshieh

made the medium today! 
since it was my first time i wasn't really sure about much and may have screwed up here and there but all in all i think i did pretty well.


















some things i did wrong, so apparently for subculture you need 2 tablespoons and i didn't notice that at first so i thought it was 1 tablespoon oh well :/ i cut the recipe down by half because 1. don't have that many jars and 2. don't want to use all of it and screw up on the first try. so i'm guessing i put about 0.7-8 tablespoons of sugar? ehehe

secondly.... the instructions say to add food coloring first, but since i was using ph strips i realized i probably should have put it AFTERWARDS since the light tint may have screwed with the colors.

and one thing i didn't consider was what if the ph of the solution was WAY over or under the range the ph strips showed? since im using narrow range ph strips i don't think i'd be able to tell. oh well fingers crossed! hopefully this works!

btw... im using this on TC elatine hydropiper i got from frank at ADG so for now im just doing subculture. this TC stuff is so strenuous! 

and last thing was i gave my pinch, smidgen, dash spoons away to someone couple months ago because i figured i wouldn't need them LOL well I didn't want to go buy another set and it wouldn't arrive on time anyways so i just used my thumb and index finger for a "pinch" 
there are alternatives to agar however, you can use sand that's been boiled or you can use coffee filter paper. the main thing is for the plant to not drown in the medium and it should be supported while having contact to the nutrients.


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## niko

Here's a bit of reality in this hip indeavor:

- Turns out tissue culture plants often have issues adapting to the real aquarium world.

- Tissue culture aquarium plants are of interest for one single reason - they last a few weeks on the store shelf and look cool doing it.
http://www.tropica.com/en/about-tropica/did-you-know/tropica’s-tissue-laboratory.aspx

Other than that - yes it is fun to make 1 out of 20 jars actually grow a plant clean from diseases/fungus/bacteria.


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## neilshieh

well it's worth a shot  and im playing with anubias linea cup elatine hydropiper so it should be easier. plus it doesn't cost that much to do it and i think the experience is worth it.


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## AaronT

niko said:


> - Turns out tissue culture plants often have issues adapting to the real aquarium world.


I've had no issues with this myself. I've grow Rotala macrandra 'Japan Red', Hygrophila pinnatifida, Elatine hydropiper, Crypt. 'Flamingo' and Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini' all from commercial tissue culture. I'd say most took about as long to convert as if I'd grown them emersed first.


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## neilshieh

Elatine hydropiper has been initiated into the media for a week now! They are starting to perk up!  Fingers crossed for growth!
on a side note, the elatine i put into my emersed setup didn't do too well, though there are some stems that have clung on to dear life LOL


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## neilshieh

I used a broken 10 gallon tank I had as a clean box and got a cheap mister and basically sprayed everything I could with 70% rubbing alcohol. One thing i wasn't too sure about was when I kept the scissors and tweezers in the rubbing alcohol I wasn't sure if I was supposed to rinse it off with sterile water in between uses. :/ hopefully the alcohol with the culture can only help haha. we will see. no signs of mold or fungus yet, but then again it may take some time to develop.


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## neilshieh

here's the lab handout provided by Dr. Carol Stiff over at http://www.hometissueculture.org/

her information has been immensely helpful and a great place to get supplies at! 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zt3q4xh3yemj9f8/workshopGenericHandoutJune2012.pdf

she has given me many more documents regarding tissue culture and aquatic plants, i will upload those upon request. all credit goes to Dr. Carol Stiff


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## neilshieh

update: in hindsight i probably should have used some kind of hormone because the initial roots all died and turn brown. I see lots of steady new growth and roots though!  but this is going at a ridiculously slow rate.... oh well it was my first time haha. i will post pictures when its more grown in. No fungus in any of the containers!  but i had it easy since i was using in vitro plants haha


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## ferchu22

Great! I guess fungus is the main problem in TC. If you can control that, it's just a matter of time and patience to get the right protocol/procedure for your pant.
Best regards,



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## AaronT

I haven't done it myself, but I do believe the hormones are key. You don't really need roots until you're ready to take them out of culture. I believe Ghazanfar used the hormone that triggers the plant to multiply and then when he was on the last transplant he would also add rooting hormone.


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## neilshieh

yeah I have BPA for the growth and IBA for the roots except since these were grown in vitro already using more hormones isn't really necessary and at that point we're doing subculture. But I think the plant didn't take the shipping from Italy too well so perhaps i should have put in cytokins to compensate for the plant die off.
I will be sure to use hormones when I decide to start round two. Right now they're just growing like plants in regular substrate.

Should i make a batch with BPA and transplant some of the plants? any thoughts guys?


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## AaronT

neilshieh said:


> yeah I have BPA for the growth and IBA for the roots except since these were grown in vitro already using more hormones isn't really necessary and at that point we're doing subculture. But I think the plant didn't take the shipping from Italy too well so perhaps i should have put in cytokins to compensate for the plant die off.
> I will be sure to use hormones when I decide to start round two. Right now they're just growing like plants in regular substrate.
> 
> Should i make a batch with BPA and transplant some of the plants? any thoughts guys?


Don't fix it if it's not broken. Just wait until you transplant and use the hormones then.


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## neilshieh

yeah that was what I was thinking too. Slow and steady then 

I wonder if there are any cons to using hormone stimulated fast growth. I mean usually with animals that produces negative side effects like weak bones etc, are there any for plants? I mean if hormones don't produce a negative effect why don't we just use them with all plants?


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## neilshieh

Here are some quick iphone pictures! You can see all the die off but you can also see the new growth + root mass.


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## ferchu22

Nice pics!
I remember, as Aaron said, that Ghazanfar uses an hormone first to trigger shoot growth, then you have to move the explant to a different media to multiply shoots (up to you have as many as you whant), and finnally move those to last media, with another hormone to trigger roots growth. Check Ghazanfar blog for detailed info.
Best regards,

Fernando

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## neilshieh

hi yes, using BPA and IBA is for hormonal induced growth for an explant. My logic with this round of tissue culture was that since these have already undergone hormonal treatment and have formed many shoots/roots I should propagate it via subculture which is growing in the medium without hormones. The results are too slow for my tastes however and I totally agree, hormones should be used in my next round. I'm sure I'll learn something new with each round! 

food for thought....
why can't we put BPA and IBA together? wouldn't that be even better for enhanced shoot growth along with rooting?


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## neilshieh

growth is starting to pick up, I'm not noticing much lateral spread mostly bunched growth? I have a 18W CFL bulb on top of the 10 gallon tank and yesterday after looking at the light levels, I realized that it was pretty dim and so I lowered the light fixture to approx 66% of the original height. Hopefully it'll speed up growth?

Also elatine hydropiper prefers cooler climates but even in california summers with the temps in the higher 80F the elatine is still doing fine.


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## AaronT

Any updates?


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## neilshieh

A lot of steady growth, gave one to my high school chemistry teacher and she was amazed at the rate of growth. 

Usually this plant spreads but when grown in vitro, it grows on itself and forms a mass instead of sending runners and what not. There aren't any hormones being used so I wonder why that happens....

I plan to try a second batch but this time I'm going to be using hormones and I'll be using cuttings of an easy stem plant. but finding time for this during finals week is no fun...


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## AaronT

neilshieh said:


> A lot of steady growth, gave one to my high school chemistry teacher and she was amazed at the rate of growth.
> 
> Usually this plant spreads but when grown in vitro, it grows on itself and forms a mass instead of sending runners and what not. There aren't any hormones being used so I wonder why that happens....
> 
> I plan to try a second batch but this time I'm going to be using hormones and I'll be using cuttings of an easy stem plant. but finding time for this during finals week is no fun...


Nice. I think it's just a matter of not needing roots while in the culture. Once you are ready to do the last subculture then use the rooting hormone to get some roots going. Although, really you don't need to have roots to plant it since it technically is a stem plant.


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## Zapins

I'm waiting on the edge of my seat for updates 

I'm very interested in giving this a try again.


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## neilshieh

Oh I'm not worried about root mass, at the rate the elatine is growing right now, I'd say the leaf/stem mass is expanding as fast as the root mass. 

I will try to get pictures up tomorrow! and as always they'll just be iphone pictures 

any suggestions for what stem plant I should try for my next round of TC? I'm inclined to try my cuphea anagalloidea since it seems like a few people are hunting down this plant, if the stem plants are successful next up would be crypts and then eventually buces and anubias!


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## Zapins

Definitely anubias and Buces. 100%

Buces for sure, if you could TC those you would literally be rich, help the hobby, and help reduce wild collection.


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## AaronT

I would think a TC culture of Rotala 'Sunset' could be quite lucrative. Whatever you choose you'll need to get it going emergent first. Submersed culture is just too dirty to sterilize.


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## neilshieh

well that's easy for me since atm I only have emergent setups grown in turface (soil is way too messy for me, molds, and smells.)


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## neilshieh

one of the cultures died  the culture became milky colored and the elatine browned and died. Didn't see any mold or anything... 
another problem I'm facing is how TC cultured elatine will do with the rising summer temps since elatine likes cooler temps. any suggestions? I can move it downstairs where it is generally cooler


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## neilshieh

here's the deceased culture. note how it's more milky and pale compared to the other cultures













































so obviously roots and shoots aren't that big of a problem in subculture, they grow in like they do usually except in TC they bunch up instead of spreading.


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## Zapins

neil

If you have time I'd love to hear a step by step protocol you are using. I know there are some online but I know that everyone has their own spin on things and it is usually something minor that makes the entire project work or not work.

And congrats on the cultures that worked, they are growing convincingly!

How long have they been growing since you started them?


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## neilshieh

Well the thing is I'm not really doing tissue culture right now ahaha... this is just subculture grown from already sterilized in vitro plants grown by Anubias (Italian plant distributor) the hardest part of TC is the sterilization process to ensure the explants are sterile and to make sure the explant isn't killed and I plan to do that soon. 
Well there wasn't much procedure I just used a clean box and had a spray bottle with 90% rubbing alcohol and basically kept the whole place wet with alcohol the whole time. The tweezers and SS scissors were also dipped in alcohol and I had a jar of sterilized water as well.


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## neilshieh

as for media prep I just followed the instructions in Carol's ,from kitchen culture kit, teaching plan which I uploaded here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/zt3q4xh3yemj9f8/workshopGenericHandoutJune2012.pdf)


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## Zapins

Thanks I downloaded the instructions. I'll give it a try sometime and do a write up on it.


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## neilshieh

another one of the cultures died for some reason :/ no fungal growth or anything... 
maybe its time to split up some of the healthier ones? I'll probably do another round with the elatine hydropiper tomorrow or the following day using hormones. bad thing is im going to be away for 6 weeks and I wont be able to monitor them


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## Spyke

I am serisouly considering doing TC as well. I would like to try one of my buces first as well as some of my nicer plants like staurogyne bihar and porto veho. If i can round up the $$ soon I'll but the kitchen culture kit and do the real deal. Not what you are doing right now. Hope you do have some success so you can get some courage to also try the whole process. 

If i am successful I will be mainly doing buces and rare collected sp. like crypts, stems, and anubias (especially white). Maybe I'll trick a few of you all to send me some plants to TC! That is, if I am sucessful.


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## neilshieh

well what i've got going now is doing great. my elatine cultures really took off but i've been gone for 6 weeks and the plants need to be split up again since they're looking pretty sad  hopefully everything will pull through, but I was really amazed at how well everything was growing


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## neilshieh

okay well i've put off separating the cultures long enough round 2's agar has been made! GREEN for 6-BAP hormones!


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## aspensandoaks

looking good!

I was going to PM but I figured other people are probably interested too- did you order a kit from kitchenculturekits?
if so which one, and what additional supplies would one need beyond the kit to start a similar setup? I'm considering the basic kit to try and start some TC while I still have some summer left 

Thanks,
Don


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## neilshieh

I didn't order a kit per se. I bought the baby food jars (3 oz) off ebay though in hindsight 2.5 oz jars would have worked just fine. I got the phytocaps and the MS and the growth hormones from kck and ordered a bottle of ppm directly from the company though it's much cheaper to get it from kck because i have so much of it i'll never use.

here are some pictures of me planting! one of the jars that really took off used up all the nutrients in the original red no hormone agar and was kinda yellow/unhealthy. I split it up in hopes that it'll bounce back in the fresh medium. fingers crossed!

i was doing this in the late evening and there weren't any sockets near where i was sitting so i put my super bright cree led bike light on top of the clean box for some light. 
I spent the summer interning at a lab and got to use lab grade equipment for TC and it really gave me some ideas on how to do TC at home. for instance, this time I draped a sheet of saran wrap across the opening of the clean box (broken 10 gallon tank patched up with tape) to reduce contamination brought my air movement.

















































i was wearing a face mask in part to breathe because the isopropyl fumes were overwhelming and also to prevent my breath from inadvertently creating air movement into the clean box.


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## Zapins

You could angle a fan so it blows at the fish tank from the back. This would force air around it and cause any dust in the room to be blown away from the opening. They do something similar in bacterial culture players with a candle flame.


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## Spyke

How is the progress on this? Any success so far?


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## neilshieh

I never got around to updating you guys. The second round failed but that was expected. I was away for 6 weeks at a summer program and by the time I came back the cultures had overgrown and the plants were looking very weak from lack of nutrients. After coming back I further delayed transplanting them for another 2-3 weeks. 
I'm sad that the cultures had grown so well but died from my neglect. 

Some notes when I try my hand at TC again next time: When doing transplants, half of the cultures with the new hormone and the others should go into mediums without hormones in case the hormone batch dies there will still be backups. Also, a thicker layer of agar medium is necessary if you can't keep up on transplants. As a note, my red agar medium actually turned a very pale pink when the nutrients were mostly exhausted. 

I'm a second semester senior now  so I will definitely be trying TC again. I will probably buy some of TC plants from petsmart since I don't have anymore elatine hydropiper


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## adkaqua

Yay for necro..... But. ... Where did you buy your hormones for residential shipping? Any tips? I've got a respectably equipped lab almost finished. Only thing I haven't sourced is hormones and basal salts at a decent cost


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## hoppycalif

This thread is 4 1/2 years old! Why not start a new thread and get another discussion on this subject going?


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## adkaqua

Bc am at work. Search for specific terms landed me here. Was quick question. Rather than start new thread while trying to eat and get some nic in me. .. I just hit reply on Tapatalk. 

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## DutchMuch

hoppycalif said:


> This thread is 4 1/2 years old! Why not start a new thread and get another discussion on this subject going?


I to do the same as he has done occasionally, sometimes resurrection is a good thing. In this case i had no idea this thread existed, now that hes updated it, i have read the entire thing and learned a bit more 
Honestly it is pretty cool stuff!


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## hoppycalif

I agree that resurrecting an old thread can be very productive. Just don't expect the person(s) being questioned are still monitoring this.


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## DutchMuch

hoppycalif said:


> I agree that resurrecting an old thread can be very productive. Just don't expect the person(s) being questioned are still monitoring this.


If you mean the OP i have with no doubt they are not seeing this anymore lol
As for the guy who bumped this, he is in the discord server i started and has a Huge TC production going on, with actual equipment etc, ive never seen anything like it.


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## adkaqua

See now they're gonna go to discord. See my Warcraft name. And then just think of me as a scrub mage with garbage mythic parses. Gg. 



But yea, I'm figuring I'm a few weeks out from starting. Went to school for this stuff. Sick of being in semiconductor industry. So I took half my 401k out. Building my own lab. Only thing that's proving problematic to find cheaply that will ship to residential address is hormones. 


You can't even buy cellulase for making protoplasts without a business address. I'm working out of a 2br apartment to start. So that's our until I'm cash positive and can afford real dedicated space. Saw this on lunch today and thought maybe someone has done some small scale TC work for ornamentals or aquatic plants and might share source for reagent grade growth regulators. I'm prob gonna hit pot forums too. See what the biologists over there have found reliable and affordable

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## adkaqua

It's mostly actual equipment. Little diy. I've got a Barnstead still with collection jug. Biosafety cabinet (overkill, but got cheaper than laminar, and it is just a laminar cabinet with extra features protecting user AND samples). Analytical balance. Hotplate stirrer. 10/100/200/1000uL pipettes. Accumet pH meter. Magenta TC vessels (glass and plastic). 

But also things a utility bench for lab bench. 14qt electric pressure cooker for a stand in autoclave. Panty rack with 4 bulb t5 HO fixtures wired over each shelf for grow space. 


Still need a mini fridge and dessicator for chems like MS salts. Microwave for media prep that hasn't had food cooked in it. Pipette tips for everything but 1000uL. New pH probe. Hormones. Basal salts. Other media supplements.

And about $600-800 in plants I plan to use not only in culture to start operation but to fill out the massive overhaul of a 35g tank I'm also doing simultaneously (new seals, internal sump with fluidized bed, handmade 3d background with sand fall, diy co2 reactor, fugeray2 & planted+ 24/7 on custom acrylic risers on top of tank after I remove rim and replace with euro, oh... And co2. Never used that before. So it's getting co2 tank, controller, and I'm scaping the whole thing with Dennerle soil). 


Needless to say my apartment is craaaaaazy disorganized rn. Plumbing testing in bathroom. Foam and concrete work on kitchen table. Spare room becoming lab and grow space. All while working 12.5h shifts in semiconductor foundry, and keeping up with a 3 day raid schedule in mythic guild (#9 dps dealing mage on the server). Things are a bit crazy. And old threads like this with existing responses not only can pull ppl from previously back in to convo with experience in the topic at hand, but have comments already and are more likely to bring in NEW voices to join what they see as an existing convo. 

Plus saves time to hit reply rather than back out in this app, start new, title, review it all for spelling and grammar and autocorrect making you look racist or like a jerk or swapping in swear words inappropriately as the op.... >.>

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## adkaqua

Taped up thing is blocking off for epoxy/sanding/painting co2 reactor. Hex tank is hotel for fish, not cycled yet. Little stand has Xmas moss in an emersed experiment. Concrete foam thing is part of backdrop, with integrated sandfall. So my original necro wasn't a random act of 'whatev' lol


























































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## DutchMuch

Just reading all that, i should have a PHD. 
you really gotta start a journal on that, if you didn't, then... well... IDK WHAT I'D DO.

But for most people including me this is a Must See operation your doing here and no one else i believe has documented something like this *updated*


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## adkaqua

DutchMuch said:


> But for most people including me this is a Must See operation your doing here and no one else i believe has documented something like this *updated*


I think you're prob right. I get some nods and such, but I think most ppl are like 'meh. Internet. Pretending to be someone or do something but never gonna do it'. I don't think people realize it's not just blustering lmao.

Even my wife didn't take it too serious. I had the capital equipment .. but still. Till I took my retirement out and bought the last stuff and boxes and boxes started coming. .. I don't think even she believed me.

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## DutchMuch

adkaqua said:


> I think you're prob right. I get some nods and such, but I think most ppl are like 'meh. Internet. Pretending to be someone or do something but never gonna do it'. I don't think people realize it's not just blustering lmao.
> 
> Even my wife didn't take it too serious. I had the capital equipment .. but still. Till I took my retirement out and bought the last stuff and boxes and boxes started coming. .. I don't think even she believed me.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Well i wish you good luck

oh and dont forgot to make a journal PLZ xd

-Nate


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## adkaqua

I haven't even been using shopping lists hahahah. Just running tally in my head. 


If this is successful and I become a commercial seller, my brother is going to come on with me and build freshwater aquariums, terrariums, and vivariums. That .... I'll def document. This, I'll make a thread when I actually go live after my last shipment comes in. Post status updates and chat with people and such. Find out what plants there's overwhelming demand for and no supply. Teach where I can. Hell maybe hire if they're the right person. 1 lab tech can only handle 50, maybe 60k plants a year alone. I'm hoping to go well beyond that. What better place to find people as passionate about not only plants, but specifically aquarium plants that would want to join on. Hah. There'll be a thread. I'll throw it in disc when I'm going live and keep it updated

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