# How about a Crypt resource, here, on APC?



## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

If we create a crypt resource, here, on APC, What would you like it to have?
(1) Taxonomy section, with lots of pictures of submersed plants?
(2) How-to-grow section with articles?
(3) Distribution section, where people trade, sell or give away crypts?
(4) Others?


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## Sir_BlackhOle (Jan 25, 2004)

YES  ALL of it!


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## tanVincent (Mar 19, 2004)

1, 2 , 3 and 4 please...

Cheers
Vincent


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

All, but 1 & 2 appeal to me more.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

I want specific suggestions-----How these proposed sections ought to be-----Ideas for other sections. 

(1) my idea for the taxonomy section is not to try to repeat all the work on Jan's Crypt pages, where he has mostly emersed growth and flower pictures, but to get a collection of submersed growth pictures. See "Call for crypt pictures" on the forum. So far, I have made a commitment to try to get pictures of all the wendtii varieties I can get together. I am looking for some others to work on getting group pictures of similar crypts growing submerse. How about those long-leaved varieties, crispatula, retrospiralis, and spiralis? 

(2) How-to-grow section. Perhaps we could have here a collection of posts, culled from various places, the way Eric Olson does it on the Krib. More comprehensive articles would be welcome! 

(3) Distribution section is necessarily going to have to be different from the way trading, etc is done for other aquarium plants because of the snail's pace at which crypts grow and the fact that you can't just trim them and get useful cuttings the way you can with stem plants. Without a whole lot of thinking about it, I think that people can go on the distribution section and say that they have such and such species and will be willing to distribute when these species reach the point (if they ever do!) where it is time to bust them up and replant. This may be a year or more later. Others can line up for receiving plants. Distributors should be able to post updates on availability, how they are growing or not growing, etc. perhaps even with pictures showing how their plants are doing. I can imagine cases where someone has species X, announces that he will distribute it when it multiplies, and then a year goes by without it multiplying. People on the waiting list will just have to be patient or look for other sources. If they find another source, they should take their names off the waiting list. The notices of wanting to give and wanting to receive should remain on the list until all deals are closed or canceled. If it isn't public, people will forget. I am guilty of having done that, and I am not the only one, I am sure! 

These are preliminary ideas. I want feedback, better ideas, new ideas.


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

> (1) my idea for the taxonomy section is not to try to repeat all the work on Jan's Crypt pages, where he has mostly emersed growth and flower pictures, but to get a collection of submersed growth pictures. See "Call for crypt pictures" on the forum. So far, I have made a commitment to try to get pictures of all the wendtii varieties I can get together. I am looking for some others to work on getting group pictures of similar crypts growing submerse. How about those long-leaved varieties, crispatula, retrospiralis, and spiralis?


I think this is a little redundant. Aren't we already trying to make the Plant Finder contain a decent subsection devoted to the genus Cryptocoryne?

Carlos


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

The plant finder format is for single species and even single varieties. I want to try to get group pictures of related crypts. all growing under the same conditions. That way, the differences in appearance are more likely to be due to actual genetic differences.


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## Sir_BlackhOle (Jan 25, 2004)

I'm liking it so far, especially the how-to-grow section!


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## JLudwig (Feb 16, 2004)

HeyPK said:


> (3) Distribution section, where people trade, sell or give away crypts?


Hi Paul...

With respect to #3, a database much like the killifish collection code database would be very helpful, that way in trades you can trace your plants back to where they can from vegetatively, and have a good basis for comparing geographical variations.

Also, I'm going to be getting my feet wet with emersed crypts soon, and would like to stick to harder to find species, especially ones that don't do as well submerged. So a "rare in the US" species list would be helpful. I'm pretty ignorant in the crypt area as I have been persuing bright red plants "high-tech" for a while now, but thats starting to fade a bit as time becomes more and more scarce 

Jeff


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Jeff, 

Can you tell me how the Killifish collection code database is maintained? Is it their Fish and Egg listing that they publish in their Business Newsletter? 

Thanks,


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## aquaverde (Feb 9, 2004)

Jan’s site is tremendous, but at my level submersed photos would be a lot more useful. That would include pics with growth conditions listed, e.g. tank size, wpg, CO2 injection, substrate composition. So I’m very interested in that suggestion.

The how-to-grow section would be really helpful, also. I’ve done OK with easy crypts, but lost some of the more rare/difficult ones, and also have some that don’t seem to be thriving like they should.


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## JLudwig (Feb 16, 2004)

HeyPK said:


> Can you tell me how the Killifish collection code database is maintained? Is it their Fish and Egg listing that they publish in their Business Newsletter?


Not really... the process basically goes like this... a few hobbyists go on a collecting trip, they then bag fish and publish in their journal, describing the collection sites. Each site is given a reference, N'Sukka 97-1 for instance might be a collecting trip from 1997, site #1 around the town of N'Sukka... theres no system to the numbers unfortunately. Barry Cooper aparently has made an online version of this, so for instance Fp. gardneri "P-82" is a strain I maintain, I can enter the gardneri P-82 into the website and find out where, when and who collected the initial population... this way, down the road should two populations "affinis" be determined to be separate species down the road the genetics aren't mixed up.

I don't know that we need anything quite so tedious, I think you could let people pick there own codes, but I do think a database tracing back a cultivar to a single source is helpful, even iff that source is "online purchase from Oriential Aquarium Dec 11/3/2004 by Jeff Ludwig"... "Gift from Jan B. at AGA convention 2004".... That way the taxonomy doesn't confuse the issue, as with crypts you're much in the same boat at killiifish guys, chromosomes counts may turn out to be different between two "vars" (and therefore they are species), etc... Visual inspection can be very very difficult.

The Royal Horticultural Society has a similar database for orchids, for an example:
http://www.rhs.org.uk/research/registerpages/orchiddetails.asp?ID=91509

This cultivar is called "Lucky Love" , its a cross with "Malibu Amour" and "Lucky Lady" as seed and pollen parent respectively, registered by Jemmco 4/9/1992 . The killie databaes is only open to members so I can't show you a demo of that...

Jeff


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Jan Bastmeijer has a notation system for crypts. Here is an example of his entry for C. pygmaea:

Cryptocoryne pygmaea Merrill 

Greenhouse entry number----------------------788
Entry date (yymmdd)----------------------------990600
Name----------------------------------------------Bastmeijer
Spathe in alcohol? ______ 2N=?________


Collection:-----Bastmeijer 788-----------May 11, 1999
Country--------Phillipines------------------Patawan
Locality---------E 119° 31' 03"	N 10° 46' 17"
S of Taytay. NW of lake Manguao (= lake Danao). Small 
stream ca 2 m wide, 0.1m depth. Clear, swift running 
water over a clay / sand bottom. Banks clay. 1/2 
Shaded.
Growing submersed up to the banks, there emersed. 
Very small patches. Not common. No inflorescences.

This is got everything we would want, and many things that we won't be able to get from our store-bought crypts or our "I-got-it-from-Tom" crypts. 
For every crypt, we own, we should have our name and a number. We should also include all the information we can get on where it came from. 

I have a C. pygmaea plant with the above lineage that Jan Bastmeijer gave me. I also got from Jan a C. usteriana plant and a C. zukalii plant that have similarly detailed pedigrees. 

On the other hand, I have one called C. wendtii hybrid that I got from Naomi Mizumoto, and she got it from Albeny Aquarium, which gets most of its plants from Orietal Aquarium. 

I also have had some crypts for so long that I can't remember where I got them or when. At least with ones like these, we can give them a name and a number for starters. 

I know how to set up a database, but I don't know how to get one on APC, but I bet that Art Giacosa does!.


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