# Need some guidance for a planted goldfish tank



## Philcav7 (Oct 2, 2012)

I am new to fishkeeping and planting, but have some of the basics down at this point. I'm looking for some guidance on the 40G breeder I recently setup for my two goldfish. I would appreciate any info to ensure I am on the correct path. I plan to keep it low tech (no co2, little/no ferts, gravel substrate, low light), but after seeing what is possible with aquascaping, I want to step it up a notch. 

1. I currently have 4 java ferns and 3 anubias nana that I got last week. I want to add more and our divide and re-plant what I have. Are there other plants that I should look at putting in the tank? I am thinking I need some taller plants for the back. Some colored plants would be nice. Keep in mind the goldfish eat everything, dig constantly, and are cold water. 

2. I am using a light fixture with two 36" T5NO bulbs (21w x 2). One is daylight, the other is pink. Should I return this fixture and buy a 36" T5HO (39w x2) instead? The HO fixture is actually cheaper, but doesn't look as nice, the one I have is super sleek. Some say my plants will be fine with 1wpg, others say I need more. The reduced energy cost of 42w is appealing, but I want to make sure I have the right thing. 

3. When collecting rocks in the wild, how do I know what to pickup? I've heard no limestone and to do a vinegar test, but is that fool proof? I don't have a hardness test kit at this time, but current ph is about 7.6 using tap water. 

4. A carpeting plant would be awesome, I just haven't found any that goldys dont eat (java moss, riccia, DHG, etc. Any ideas?

5. I don't have a LFS, only petco and petsmart. Petsmart has a tiny selection and sickly plants sold off the shelf. Petco does have some tanks setup, but not exactly sure of the variety. Can you recommend a good site to shop online from the US?

6. Like I said, I'm new, low budget (have a baby on the way), and inexperienced. I would like to avoid CO2 and simply use a liquid/tab product one a week or so for nutrients (product recommendations welcomed). I know I have circumstances that will limit my setup, but want to do the best that I can. Any general suggestions would be great. 

Thanks for reading/helping. 

Very nice site you have here, BTW.


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## Philcav7 (Oct 2, 2012)

Forgot mention...

My tank is 36W x 18D x 16H with the fixture directly on the glass top. So there is minimal water depth over the plants to the fixture ( depending on height of plant obviously)

One apprehension I have about keeping the NO fixture is lack of bulbs, they are difficult to find and the selection seems scarce. Aqueon makes them and have found a couple of regular home depot bulbs. Do you think this will be a limiting factor?


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

_Phil, welcome to APC! See some comments below._

1. I currently have 4 java ferns and 3 anubias nana that I got last week. I want to add more and our divide and re-plant what I have. Are there other plants that I should look at putting in the tank? I am thinking I need some taller plants for the back. Some colored plants would be nice. Keep in mind the goldfish eat everything, dig constantly, and are cold water.

_The goldfish are going to be a challenge. Small fancy goldfish are not so bad; large commons, comets, or shubunkins will be worse. I suggest going to the Plant Finder, do a search for very easy and easy plants, pick out a few species you are interested in, and post specific questions about those species. In many ways, this will be trial and error until you find plants that can coexist with the goldfish._

2. I am using a light fixture with two 36" T5NO bulbs (21w x 2). One is daylight, the other is pink. Should I return this fixture and buy a 36" T5HO (39w x2) instead? The HO fixture is actually cheaper, but doesn't look as nice, the one I have is super sleek. Some say my plants will be fine with 1wpg, others say I need more. The reduced energy cost of 42w is appealing, but I want to make sure I have the right thing.

_Your current fixture is fine. Two T5 HO tubes over a 40 breeder would put you in high light, and leave you very prone to algae problems. You can use generic T5 NO tubes from the hardware store, look for ones with the highest color temperature (K) number that you can find._

3. When collecting rocks in the wild, how do I know what to pickup? I've heard no limestone and to do a vinegar test, but is that fool proof? I don't have a hardness test kit at this time, but current ph is about 7.6 using tap water.

_Goldfish are fine in hard water, so don't worry about limestone or the vinegar test. Most natural stone is fine. When you bring it home, scrub it with a stiff brush. If the surface comes off and keeps coming off as long as you scrub, the stone is too soft and will fall apart in the tank._

4. A carpeting plant would be awesome, I just haven't found any that goldys dont eat (java moss, riccia, DHG, etc. Any ideas?

_You might try dwarf sagittaria or pigmy chain sword. No guarantees!_

5. I don't have a LFS, only petco and petsmart. Petsmart has a tiny selection and sickly plants sold off the shelf. Petco does have some tanks setup, but not exactly sure of the variety. Can you recommend a good site to shop online from the US?

_The best place to shop is right here in the for sale forum. I will let others comment about online stores since I have no experience._

6. Like I said, I'm new, low budget (have a baby on the way), and inexperienced. I would like to avoid CO2 and simply use a liquid/tab product one a week or so for nutrients (product recommendations welcomed). I know I have circumstances that will limit my setup, but want to do the best that I can. Any general suggestions would be great.

_You don't need CO2 for easy plants. Goldfish produce a lot of waste, and fish waste is fertilizer! I think nutrients are the least of your worries. Concentrate on establishing healthy plants and good biofiltration; these will take care of most issues.

You could create a very attractive tank using Java ferns and anubias, and these species are among those most likely to survive in a goldfish tank.

Good luck, and ask more questions as you get into the set up. I like goldfish, and wish more people would do nice planted tanks for them._


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## Bruce_S (Jun 11, 2012)

Welcome, Philcav!

I've got a similar setup - small-medium ryukins and orandas in a 39 gallon tank, with a NO T-5 overhead. So far, it's worked well with blehri swords, another sword which my local Petco sells potted as a "melon", but which looks more like "ozelot", and which has stayed small - about 3-4". Also, crypts are working well - I've got three distinct varieties in there, all of which came with the helpful "assorted" label. There's also an orange-leaved dwarf waterlily in there, and a brace of banana plants. There lies a caveat - lately, the banana plants leaves seem to be coming up as topless stems - somebody's taken to nipping off the growing leaves all of a sudden. There're Java ferns as well, which just kind of ... sit there. When I began with live plants, I added an anubias, but it melted with startling rapidity! There're also some of the apogenoton plants of the sorts which come with Petco/Petsmart bulb packages.

The goldfish do love to dig, and will happily dig up new plants - I've found that surrounding them with small stones / large pebbles will help give them time to settle in.

Also in the tank are a few weather (dojo) loaches, a couple of white cloud minnows and a sailfin pleco. The numbers of white clouds have been declining, and I suspect the slower ones may have gotten munched. The sailfin pleco is becoming aggressive toward the goldfish, so he'll be moving to another tank with the next water change, I think... The gold dojo loaches are a wonderful addition! I've also read that bloodfin tetras can get along in cooler water, but that their color fades under those conditions.










Really should take new pix - the tank's filled in considerably since this one!

Hope it helps!

~Bruce


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## Rivercats (Aug 31, 2012)

I have two large tanks with 8-6+ inch orandos and other fancies. I keep dwarf sag (they will munch on it but it grows well enough they can't kill it off), narrowleaf temple and ambulia (which they will munch on from time to time), then the plants that they leave alone are all the crypts, swords, anubia's, and java ferns. One thing that I have found that helps keep the goldies from plant eating alot is feeding them alot of veggies. Mine get peas, softened zucchini, and softened cucumber about 3x a week. Another thing, I found these nifty little soft rubbery plant anchors that work like a dream in goldie tanks. Here's a link in case your interested...
http://www.aquariumplants.com/Professional_Plant_Anchors_on_sale_reg_2_29_p/pr1325.htm


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## Philcav7 (Oct 2, 2012)

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate you taking the time to assist me. 

Bruce, what are the two plants in that picture? The big one in the back left corner and the light green on in the front? They look nice and fit what I am trying to plan out in my head. Your tank looks great!

I have a 3 year old common (feeder fish won at a carnival) and recently added a telescope. I plan to add a couple of nerite snail for algea and cleaning up the bottom. I would like more fish, but have to wait until Mr. Fin is relocated, he's 9" and will need to go to a pond if he gets any bigger.


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## Philcav7 (Oct 2, 2012)

Here is what I am working with so far. It's just thrown together with some plastic plant and such. The malasian driftwood will stay, but the plastic one on the right will come out when I scape it. I'm open to suggestion for ideas. I am thinking of building up the back right corner and sloping it down to the left and front. I will have the driftwood in this area with some assorted small river rock and a few large one (cover in moss). The left side will have some mid sized plants to hide the other filter tube and cover some of the back wall. I just need to leave plenty of swimming room.

How can I build up the back area? I've seen some scapes that look like they have hills in them, how is that accomplished? I can't go deep with substrate because the waste will build up and anaerobic pockets. I was think of taking a small Tupperware container with weights inside, silicone it shut and glue substrate gravel on it and blend it it with plants and mid sized river rock. Is that reasonable or is there a better way?


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## Bruce_S (Jun 11, 2012)

Hi, Phil!

The big plant in the back left corner is the "blehri" swordplant. It's got a few leaves growing up out of the tank now, but hasn't filled in as much as a similar plant in my other tank. The bright green plant in front of the Japanese lantern is (are) a pair of banana plants - they're the ones whose leaves are getting eaten.

Took a new photo just now - wish I could get the camera to speed up enough to catch the fish!










For sloping, I've always used stones and wood as a dam - it stops (or at least slows) the flow of substrate to create multiple levels. (Once the plants' roots have developed sufficiently, they'll help to hold it as well.) The plants themselves will help you somewhat with stagnation in your substrate, using nutrients which might otherwise rot. In my other tank (tropical), I've got some pretty deep levels and slopes, with root-feeding plants and Maylaysian trumpet snails, which burrow through the first inch or two of the substrate, keeping it loosened up.

That is a _serious_ goldfish you've got there! I hope he lets your plants grow in!

~Bruce


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## NYREPS (Jun 18, 2011)

Since we are talking about goldfish I want you guys to check out this video ,I think this guy is insane ,the sad part is this guy thinks he is right,and he thinks he needs all those filters in those tank ,let me know what you guys think


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## Philcav7 (Oct 2, 2012)

NYREPS said:


> Since we are talking about goldfish I want you guys to check out this video ,I think this guy is insane ,the sad part is this guy thinks he is right,and he thinks he needs all those filters in those tank ,let me know what you guys think


I would question any fishkeeper that has the walls above his tanks decorated with fishing lures. Lol.

I'm a believer that you can't over filter the water, but 3+ filters is pushing it on a small tank. Many filters are overstated on what they can actually filter and gph flow rates are typically presented with no media or pads installed, this exaggerates the advertised flow.

Goldfish are messy and need lots of flow to collect all the poop. I have two aquaclear 70's on my tank that are listed at 300gph and recommended for tank up to 70 gallons. So I have 140 gallons of filtration on my tank and turn the water over 15 times per hour. Many suggest 10+ for goldfish. If I were using a typical "40 gallon" filter, I would be far below the recommendation and need to gravel vac more heavily.

I also have minimal gravel in my tank, it's 1-3 pebbles deep. With the larger gravel that I have, the large voids collect a lot of debris.

But yeah, he's insane. 
--------------------------------------------

Mr. Fin should have died 10 times by now. Until recently, I knew nothing of fishkeeping and he was neglected and subjected to everything a fish shouldn't. He is huge and honestly not very pretty. He pretty much looks like a carp. He's turned white with a touch of orange on his nose. He hasn't touched the plants yet, he may not realize they're yet. My telescope on the other hand was inspecting and picking at the roots of the anubias today. Gotta watch him...

I will look for those plants. Thanks for the clarification, Bruce. I also liked the melon sword but can't determine how it will grow. Some say they're for the background and get 20", others say the stop growing at 5-6". I'm sure low tech tanks will stunt growth, but need to do some more reading.

I will keep you guys posted as it progresses.

Thanks again.


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## Shurik (Mar 22, 2008)

Hello Phil!
I have like a 3 years long journey with planted gold fish tank in here (in my signature it is 50 gal tank link) and there is just waaaaay too many things to consider. Many pages with ups and downs and many great advices I got from here too. (My thread ends with me having a baby so far).
Few days ago my Hagrid finally went to live in the pond, he is a 6 years old comet. I kept up my tank for all those years with him and... and after such a long battle he went to the pond  . All of my concern was his health and it was a tremendous effort, I have to say, and this is why I had to provide much better space and water quality for him and it was just not happening in my 50 gal. I can say you need as much of a filtration as you can get, and those tech specs on filters are often overstated. So bigger he was getting - more of an emergency it was to keep an eye on water quality. After a year or so it was like forget the carpeting plants and plants all together , let's keep him alive! But Good luck with your tank, it is not impossible, and it can look pretty too!


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

A fish as large as Mr. Fin will highly likely dig up anything that is not well rooted. I would skip the rooted plants, and concentrate on plants what will grow attached to the rocks and driftwood. Java Fern, Anubias, Bolbitis. 
There are several forms of Java Fern and of Anubias, so I think you can get a reasonable veriety with just these. 

Another way is to grow plants in pots. The clay pots commonly sold for gardening will work just fine in an aquarium, and some pebbles on top usually discourage the digging. 

Keep on looking for descriptions of tanks with plants for Golds. I am working on a tank for a related fish that is also a plant nipper, and I have found suggestions of the following plants, always with the caution that no one plant is always safe, someone's fish, somewhere will try to eat it, no matter how many other people can grow that plant in their Goldfish tank. 
Java Fern
Anubias
Java Moss
Onion Plant
Crypts
Aponogeton
Echinodorus (probably not all species, I have more often seen larger ones listed)
Tiger Lotus
Valisneria
Banana Plant


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## Shurik (Mar 22, 2008)

I went through a lot of planting with my gold fish in the tank and definitely I would like to add to this wonderful list of possible plants HYGROPHILA DIFFORMIS and other types of hygrophilia (perhaps)! My fish never touched it at all. But it varies, of course.


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## Philcav7 (Oct 2, 2012)

So far, things are working okay. I have added a couple of plants that look like Val, anachris, and another that I can't recall the name... Something indica. 

Mr fin hasn't touched any of them. The little telescope, Mel, does nibble the anachris from time to time. 

The Val plants doesnt look too hot though. A few leaves have yellowed and fell off. I will keep an eye on it. 


Now if I could only get this tank to finish it's cycle. Amonia had dropped to 0.25 but has popped back up to 0.5+. Nitrite has been hanging at 0.5 or so. Have been doing 20-30% water changes daily. Getting sick of lugging buckets around.


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