# Algae on HC. ID please!



## Dreamscaper (Aug 28, 2007)

Hi,
Ive got a new tank (10 days old) and I have some problematic algae developing.
30 gal
ADA Amazonia substrate
DIY CO2
96 Watts Lighting on 6 1/2 hrs a day
Not dosing anything.
50% water change every 5 to 6 days.
Bacopa spp, Blyxa Japonica, HC, E. Tennellus, Aromatica, Dwarf Sag, L. Mauritus. 
4 amano shrimp, no fish.
PH 7.0

I need to ID/Remove/Fix the problem with this:

The algae looks grey/white and threadlike, and is assaulting my HC. It balls up into the stems of my HC and leaves little thready trailers into the water. It is stunting my HC growth, and the HC affected turns a brown/yellow and the nice runners that were developing become weak, wave around feebly, and break off into the water. The amano shrimp do not do much with it, and concentrate on my VERY CLEAN stem plants, where they like to party.

Recently it has migrated to the E. Tennellus, and has been harassing the B. Japonica, but is most detrimental and concentrated in the HC. It seems to leave all the other plants alone.

Preservation of the HC is my concern. It is a new tank, and the HC was grown emersed, and its root structure is very small and not established in the substrate. Physically disturbing the HC very much will cause the plant to become dislodged and float in the tank.

A good picture of what the threads look like on the E. Tennellus
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f80/Yuden/DSC00207.jpg

Affected HC (2 pics):
In the stems, looks hazy and grey/brown in there:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f80/Yuden/DSC00208.jpg

Top left corner you can see the threads trailing off:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f80/Yuden/DSC00209.jpg

Thanks for any and all help!

Lance


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## XRTech (Jul 15, 2007)

I'm getting over the same problem with my HC. I'm not too sure if you have a long enough photo-time for the plants. I'm sure though that the DIY co2 isn't cutting it. Mine wasn't in my 20L. I started to dose Excel(regular not double) and macro nutrients and the algae started dying off. During my water changes I would gently siphon over the HC to remove the dead algae. HC is slow growing for me but doing great and I'm sure some of the leaves that are dying are the emersed ones giving way to new submersed leaves. I got that algae completely covering my HC and it's been about 2 weeks now and it's 2/3 the way gone. HC is very green and strong. Hope this helps=). BTW i have 2.7 wpg, 30% weekly water change, dose macro ferts (seachem) according to instructions on bottle, and feed fish 1x week.


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## cassiusclay (Feb 19, 2007)

dosing will help...alot the weak runners are probably a result of that.never grown HC myself so dont know much about it.but im willing to bet theres a nutrient deficiency there some where.


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## Dreamscaper (Aug 28, 2007)

Thanks for the suggestions. Ive started dosing excel in normal recommended amounts. I had an amano shrimp die the next day, but the others are doing ok. 

i ordered dry ferts online, and im going to start dosing pps-pro when they arrive. time will tell whats going to happen with the excel.


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## cassiusclay (Feb 19, 2007)

DONT od excelmore that 2x the recommended dosage and you should be fine i do it and my shrimps and more water quality sensitive fishes dont seem to notice at all


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## JamesC (Jul 26, 2005)

I'd say it looks like rhizoclonium. If you take a look at http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm there are some algae photo's for identification. Usually down to poor CO2, low nutrient levels or a general lack of maintenance.

James


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## FacePlanted (Aug 13, 2007)

That's weird. I also had this exact same thing happen with my HC when I set up my new 29gal tank with aquasoil. These clear/whitish threads would ball up and trail off in the water. I figured it was getting caught on my HC because I had one of my filter outputs blowing the co2 mist across the HC foreground. I also was really pumping my co2 since the tank was new and there were no fish in it. It has been a month and I am STILL doing waterchanges once every 2 days. After about 3 weeks there was no more ammonia/nitrite reading (however I used mulm deep in the substrate).

I thought this algaeish stuff was from all the organics in the water from the aquasoil plus the mushy rotting leaves of the emergent growth of my plants as they melted and converted to submersed "style". My HC was also grown in pots emersed and most of it turned to mush when I put it into the tank. At first I broke the pots into smaller clumps and pushed each into the soil, but the HC didnt grow very well and would always uproot/move around. It was not until I took them out again, and pulled apart EACH stem/strand and stuck it deep down (about 3/4 of the way) into the soil, that it started rooting, spreading, and staying put in the aquasoil.

I too, think that a longer photoperiod (of maybe 8 hours) would help the plants grow better and be stronger, enough to help outcompete the algae. Plants cant grow without enough light and it just favors the algae, in my opinion. If you want to cut back on the intensity to slow the system down and give you some "room for error", maybe raise your lights higher off your tank. I have a 215 watt MH/CF marine fixture and I have it raised about 3.5 feet from the substrate, but this is extreme. I still have a regular photoperiod, but the intensity is less and I think it has helped keep algae from growing super-fast.

As for your algae type stuff, I kept dosing ferts (macros & micros), tried to keep the co2 stable, and did waterchanges every 2 days. If I go longer, I can tell right away that the tank needs a WC, because this stuff comes back and gets caught in the plants. I used a 6" piece of rigid airline tubing attached to my siphon(or even better, some regular airline tubing) and siphoned the stringy stuff out of the HC. It pulls right off the ground/leaves. Be careful not to suck up the HC because it will pull out and you will have to replant it. But suck out as much as you can and change the water a lot because the organics are real high in the beginning of a tank with aquasoil and plants converting to submersed growth. I'm not saying that the organics caused this algae, I really dont know what did. But I know it can cause some types of algae, and I know that the water changes every couple of days helped after a while in my case, and the "stuff" started to show up less and less. I'm also not sure about it being due to co2 in my tank either because I was running my pressurised co2 very high in the beginning and had it blowing directly on the HC. I'm pretty sure it was due to lack of maintainence in my tank and not doing WC's when I saw they were needed. The tank has been up for about 5 weeks and I'm still holding off the algae pretty well, but it has been a lot of work and I cant slack for more than a couple of days. However, the HC has spread out and filled in pretty well.

Like I said, I really am not sure what its causes were, these are just my experiences with my tank.
So, keep at it and good luck!

-Mike B-


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## FacePlanted (Aug 13, 2007)

sorry for such a long post.......didnt realize I was rambling.

:blah: 

-Mike-


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## Dreamscaper (Aug 28, 2007)

Face: Long posts are fine with me. More info to look at. 

So far after 3 days of dosing Excel in normal amounts, the green fuzz algae has disappeared, the green hair algae that was developing on the dwarf sag is diminished, and while the HC algae problem still exists, it looks like it has stalled. The formerly covered stems which were turning grey/green and weak, have now opened new leaves on top of the algae covered parts. 

The excel is also making Bacopa and Blyxa Japonica sprout new shoots and grow at a noticably increased rate. All plants in the tank look cleaner, and healthier. 

James: Looking at that planted tank info (Really good by the way), Im going to get pressurized CO2 for my tank. Almost all the algae problems seem to be caused by low co2. 

Still have a couple problem areas, mostly on the new pot of HC i planted last week. Im sure its the 'weakest link' and most susceptible to the algae. But even there, Im getting the new shoots from the Excel. That stuff is great.

Lance


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## FacePlanted (Aug 13, 2007)

Yeah, I just started using excel too and it's kicking ass! I turned off the filters and after a WC, used a syringe to squirt the excel onto the worst problem areas of the HC that had BBA and staghorn looking stuff on it. After a few minutes, I turned the filters back on. The algae growth has stalled and I also see new HC growth slowly overgrowing the algae-covered parts. Also after one 10ml dose on my 29 gal. tank, the BBA was starting to turn pink and DIE! I also started blasting my co2 to get my drop checker a yellowish-green and even combined with my excel and ferts, none of my shrimp and otos are suffering. I think I finally have things the way they need to be. Hopefully my co2 regulator will hold the bubble rate consistent.
It sounds to me like your HC is nearly finished converting to its submersed form and that is why it is putting out new growth on top of the weak/mushy parts---yeah!

I too think that pressurized co2 is really the way to go in the long run. I used to do the diy and it was such a pain to always be mixing up a new batch. And the co2 fluccuation really does favor the algae more than the plants. The plants love stability, and will grow better than the algae if all things are kept the same day after day. If you do get pressurized co2, buy a quality co2 regulator and needle valve, because a cheap one will just have to be adjusted all the time to keep the bubble rate constant--and consistency was the reason for going to pressurised co2 in the first place. I use a milwaukee regulator/bubble counter/needle valve/solenoid all-in-one combo unit and it has worked ok for me, but they are pretty cheap(quality and price) and I have heard that many people have had leaks or unconsistent co2 rates.

The HC (and the peacock moss) have been the problem areas in my new tank also. At first I really think that a lot of the mess in the HC was caused by the dirty, algae/muck-covered rockwool that I tried to push into the aquasoil. It seemed to cause problems for me. Finally, I took each clump out and picked every bit of rockwool off and pulled each strand of HC apart. I pushed each strand down deep enough to hold it well and spread them out evenly. I was surprised at the number of strands I got from just 2 small pots. Strand by strand, the 2 pots pretty much filled in my entire foreground. It was after I did this that roots really started developing and it spred out quickly. Its only been like 5 weeks for my tank, but the HC has pretty much all filled in.

So if the HC continues to be a problem and get covered with algae or not grow/spread very well--and it is planted in bunches with rockwool underneath, you might consider pulling it and cutting out the algae covered parts and rockwool and plant it strand by strand. This is just my experience, but it has worked much better, quicker, and has given me better coverage/spread/growth. (although it sounds like the excel is working well for you). Also, adding ferts to the water column will help the HC growth if the HC does not have a very good root system yet and cannot use the nutrients in the substrate.

Well, good luck, keep reading all you can in the forums here and elsewhere, and keep us posted.

-Mike B-


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## taoyeah (Aug 8, 2007)

how do you planted the HC 1 by 1?with hands or tools?theyr so tiny


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## Dreamscaper (Aug 28, 2007)

*HC status*

I planted in patches about as big around as a pencil. Some by hand, some with a pair of regular tweezers. Depends on how much room i had in the area. ADA Amazonia substrate is great for it. Really holds down even the thinnest stem. Just separate it all out, remove as much of the rockwool as possible, and plant it deep in the substrate, just leave a little coming out the top. If you can plant just a few stems at a time thats good too. If you plant too big a "patch" without separating, it tends to grow more up, and bushy, not out, like you want. Ive got areas of both in my tank. Im new at this.

My HC didnt really start kicking off and spreading out until I got pressurized CO2. I had it about 3 weeks, and it didnt spread out too much. More light didnt do anything. I got Pressurized CO2, and the results from just 5 days are double what I did in 3 weeks of DIY. Alot less algae problems too. The excel helped out too. Excel killed off all the algae on my HC in 7 days, and actually improved the growth of it. I stopped using Excel now, and the HC hair algae has yet to come back, but the BBA on my Dwarf Sag reappeared within a couple days. If it starts to become a problem, Im going to whack it with the Excel again. Awesome product. Works fine in the recommended dose. I didnt need to overdose 2 or 3 times the amount.


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## FacePlanted (Aug 13, 2007)

I love excel too. I had never used it until just this month. I think my HC has responded to it the most. And the algae is nearly nonexistent.

Planting HC 1 by 1--This is what I did, I used my 10" tweezers that I ordered from Drs. Foster&Smith. But really any place that sells aquascaping equipment will have acceptable ones to use. These tweezers/tongs are probably the most important/most used tool that I own. I use it for everything--its great. A highly reccommended purchase. Then to plant the HC I slowly and carefully pulled each strand apart, and gently took off the rockwool. Then holding the strand of HC parallel in the tweezers, I pushed it down into the substrate leaving only about 1/3-1/2 of the strand exposed. Gently open up the tweezers in the soil and let it fill in around the stem, then carefully pull the tweezers out. Doing this I was able to evenly cover my entire foreground with only 2 small pots. In addition, the shallow roots were able to go into the rich substrate, instead of having to try to grow through the rockwool. I think it encourages faster growth. Mine spread out right away, and with the excel treatments, the algae is killed and its growth has exploded. Dreamscaper is right--I do think CO2 (or excel) is necessary for good growth.

Aquasoil really is great for holding stems in place. I agree with Dreamscaper here also-- The planting is so easy--it is real easy to push the plants into the AS because it almost feels like liquid dirt. It is really light and neutrally bouyant, so the little grains of AS just flow out of the way when pushing a stem in, and then flow back around the stem--holding it in place without any damage to the plant.

This is just what I have noticed in my tank. Good luck with yours! 

-Mike B-


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