# maximum lighting for "low tech"?



## maxthedog123 (Jun 25, 2007)

I love this whole concept - I've read Diana's book cover to cover.

One thing I feel like I've never gotten a clear answer on - what is the right amount of light for a "low tech" tank? I have a 30g tank that has about 1.4 wpg of light. It always seems to do great - very nice but slower plant growth, little to no algae. I do occasional ferts. My 50g tank has about 1.96 wpg. Every time I try to go without the pressurized CO2, I get very poor plant growth and start losing the battle to BBA.

Is something around 2wpg too much lighting to go low tech. I'd really like my 55g to be lower maintenance - slower plant growth, little to no ferts.


----------



## OrangeCones (Aug 15, 2009)

For the El Natuarl set-up, Diana recommends 1-3 watts per gallon of T-12 florescent light (less if you are using T-8 or CF lights), plus some sunlight from a window. (page 178, Ecology of the Planted Aquarium).


----------



## maxthedog123 (Jun 25, 2007)

My 55g is not where it can get any direct sunlight. (And as a side note - my 30g tanks are in my basement with no direct sunlight.) 

I am familiar with that spot in the book - hence my question. I get good luck with no CO2 at 1.4 wpg but don't seem to be able to stay ahead of the algae in the 55g at 2 wpg when I go low tech - I only seem to be able to beat the algae with CO2 and ferts.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Whenever I hear someone has a BBA problem, I wonder if they don't have too soft water. BBA falls into the "Red Algae" category. Red Algae, which includes various marine species, are unique in that they can only use free CO2. This means that they're going to have an environmental niche in excessively softwater. [If the water was harder and contained bicarbonates, other algae would become more competitive. For example, my fellow hobbyists using soft Raleigh NC municipal water have BBA, but this same BBA can't grow in my hardwater tanks (see Q&A on pp. 157 and 163 of my book).]

I don't think lighting makes that much difference. There's no magic watts/gal number. My shrimp bowls are getting sunlight and 4 watts of CFL/gal, but because they're filled to the brim with robust plants, there's almost no algae. Likewise, a pond getting full sunlight can do fine if it has got robust floating plant growth.

If you've got robust growers that are doing well and filling up the tank volume, you won't have algae. For a 55 gal, I think an Amazon Swordplant is a major help. I've noticed that my big tanks with the least problems each have a big, fat Amazon Swordplant. Of course, you need a good soil substrate and adequate water hardness to get these "Big Boys" to shine. A big forest of _Cryptocoryne balansaea_ will also keep algae under control.

Sometimes its just a matter of getting the right plant species to do well in a tank. Every tank is different and each has its own ecosystem. What plant mix works in your 30 gal may not work in your 55 gal.

Good luck!


----------



## maxthedog123 (Jun 25, 2007)

The last time I tested these, GH was 12-14 and KH was 4-6. What should the proper range be for hardness? I know that Tom Barr suggests using something such as Seachem Equilibrium to keep hardness at a constant level. What is your opinion?


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

maxthedog123 said:


> The last time I tested these, GH was 12-14 and KH was 4-6. What should the proper range be for hardness? QUOTE]
> 
> Your water hardness is fine. I would forget about water hardness as potential problem. Folks with poor plant growth and a GH below 4 are the only ones that should be concerned.


----------



## maxthedog123 (Jun 25, 2007)

I took out one of my bulbs so I now have 1x54w T5HO at 6700K over the tank. Since I have dropped the light, turned off the CO2 and reduced dosing to 1x per week it seems like I haven't seen much in the way of additional BBA.

I tested these parameters for the fist time in a long time. GH was still holding at 12, but KH has dipped to 2.

I added 2 teaspoons (I think) of NaHCO3 and the KH went up to 3. Perhaps I didn't need to worry about KH with no CO2 begin added, but I felt like the plants would benefit from boosting the buffering a little bit. Also, isn't the biofilter in danger at some point as KH moves to 0?

How important is KH in this scenario?

I put some flourish tabs under the sword in addition to what I am dosing. What is better in the substrate - flourish tabs (trace + iron) or API root tabs (NPK + iron)?


----------



## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

maxthedog123 said:


> I love this whole concept - I've read Diana's book cover to cover.
> 
> One thing I feel like I've never gotten a clear answer on - what is the right amount of light for a "low tech" tank? I have a 30g tank that has about 1.4 wpg of light. It always seems to do great - very nice but slower plant growth, little to no algae. I do occasional ferts. My 50g tank has about 1.96 wpg. Every time I try to go without the pressurized CO2, I get very poor plant growth and start losing the battle to BBA.
> 
> Is something around 2wpg too much lighting to go low tech. I'd really like my 55g to be lower maintenance - slower plant growth, little to no ferts.


I don't think there really is a "right" amount of light for low tech tanks and 2 wpg definitely is not too much for your tank. Both of my 10 gallon tanks have 2 wpg and the plants grow like weeds and I don't add fertilizers!

I think what makes people decide on how many watts they want for their tanks is the type of plants they have in there. Some plants like purple Cabomba or floaters like Water Lettuce like 3 wpg or more whereas Ambulia is fine with 1-2 wpg.

Do you mind me asking why you want slow plant growth?


----------



## Weq (Sep 1, 2009)

I does carbon and fertz on a 7gal with no filter/watr changes and ive got 2x36watt CF over it.... And i it still wants more!! Floating plants will reduce light penatration (i have some) but i find that even the parts which get direct light show signs of wanting more light!


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Max....

A picture and more information might help.

How long are you keeping the lights on during the day? 

You haven't said what your substrate is for this 55 gal. If you have a soil substrate, you shouldn't need to add fertilizers.


----------



## maxthedog123 (Jun 25, 2007)

When I set up the tank almost 3 years ago I put eco-complete and flourite under gravel. 

I had to do a major replant right when I changed over the tank, so it's a little more sparse than I would like. There are 9 tiger barbs, 5 giant danios, 1 yoyo loach and 1 BN pleco. Plants are narrow leaf ludwigia, H. polysperma, java fern and a sword (lattice leaf).

I've attached 2 pictures - one with and without flash. Sorry - I don't have a good camera and I can't ever figure out how to use the flash to get a good picture.


----------



## maxthedog123 (Jun 25, 2007)

I forgot to answer you question about light. I have 1x 54w T5HO bulb and it's on a timer for 10 hours a day. On weekends, it's often on longer since I am up later.


----------



## maxthedog123 (Jun 25, 2007)

Diana - I am thinking this over and thought I'd try to give a complete picture of what I am trying to do.

I have 4 tanks - the 55g in the pictures, two 30g and one 20g. I set all of these up before I really knew what I was doing or what I wanted, so they all have gravel over eco-complete (and some flourite as in the case of the 55g). I've determined that when I go with no fertilizer dosing, the plants really start to suffer - pale leaves, holes in the leaves, curling leaves on the crypts and BBA in my 55g and one of the 30g tanks. I am assuming this is because I do not have good substrate? I believe this is why I have not had good results when I try to go 100% non-fertilized.

Since officially going "low tech" on the 55g about 3-4 weeks ago (took out one of the 54w bulbs and shut off the CO2 for good) I have been dosing what I think is about 10% of what Tom Barr recommends for EI and what he suggests for non-CO2 tanks:

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/433-Non-CO2-methods

I also put some root tabs under the bigger plants and the new sword. Trying to figure out if flourish or API is better.

So far, things are going pretty well. The plants are looking pretty good in all tanks except one of my 30g where the BBA got out of hand. In particular, the 55g seems to be growing well and I haven't seen the bad BBA problem I usually see.

What does all of this mean? Just trying to reset my understanding from the pressurized CO2 phase. I finally shut off the CO2 because I couldn't keep up with the 3-4x week dosing and constant plant trimming. I kept asking why one of my 30g tanks always looked pretty good (with some deficiencies) with 1/2 the light and no CO2.

So far things seem to be going OK. I am not looking to tweak parameters - just the opposite - but I was concerned last week when I found out my KH was 2. As I mentioned, I put in NaHCO3 enough to raise it up to 3. Should I worry about this at all without CO2 injection? Should it be higher? Should I just leave it alone? I am under the impression that KH shouldn't be near 0.

One last note - I may have to move my 55g from my bedroom to the next room. I have a new baby on the way. I've been debating whether to "cheat" and just drain the water down, and move it 15 feet without completely emptying it or if I should treat it like a "real" move and break it down. Not sure if moving it even just a few feet with gravel and 10g of water is dangerous for the seals. It would also give me a chance to redo the substrate, but I do not have a home for the fish in the 55g to wait out substrate settling down so I would have to do it all in one day. Not sure if that is a good idea or not.

Thanks for all of your help.


----------



## medicTHREE (Feb 5, 2010)

T5HO light does not equate at all with the WPG rule and you should try not to even think that way. T5HO with good reflectors is very bright, equal to 3 or 4 times as much T8 lighting. Even 2x as bright as CF lighting.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

maxthedog123 said:


> I set all of these up before I really knew what I was doing or what I wanted, so they all have gravel over eco-complete (and some flourite as in the case of the 55g). I've determined that when I go with no fertilizer dosing, the plants really start to suffer - pale leaves, holes in the leaves...QUOTE]
> 
> Without a soil underlayer, plants don't get what they need. Fluorite and Eco-Complete are not soils.


----------



## maxthedog123 (Jun 25, 2007)

Well, with a new baby on the way in 7 weeks, redoing an entire tank with new substrate just for fun isn't in the cards. I might consider it on the 55g when I move it, but I don't know if I'll have time for a major redo. I know the benefits - it comes down to time. My one big question is what I stated above - if I do try to redo the substrate when/if I move it - do I need to let the soil sit in the tank for a while or can I just put the substrate in with the fish on the same day?

Also - one question I am still looking for help on - what are your thoughts on my KH?


----------



## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Your KH should be fine. If it was below four, then you would have to do something about it.


----------



## maxthedog123 (Jun 25, 2007)

Red_Rose said:


> Your KH should be fine. If it was below four, then you would have to do something about it.


The KH is below 4. I measured it and it was 2. I raised it up to 3 with some sodium bicarbonate last week but I'm not sure what to do from here.


----------



## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

maxthedog123 said:


> The KH is below 4. I measured it and it was 2. I raised it up to 3 with some sodium bicarbonate last week but I'm not sure what to do from here.


Maybe adding something like crushed oyster shells to the tank will help to increase your KH. If it will increase the GH, it might raise the KH as well. I'll have to do a little test on that to see what happens. I've never had to raise either one of these so I really don't know exactly what to do in this situation.

Btw, what is your GH at?


----------



## maxthedog123 (Jun 25, 2007)

GH is 12.


----------



## JeffyFunk (Apr 6, 2006)

maxthedog123 said:


> Well, with a new baby on the way in 7 weeks, redoing an entire tank with new substrate just for fun isn't in the cards.


I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who finds setting up a soil-based tank "fun". I consider setting up a soil-based tank analogous to setting up a garden. The hardest part of a setting up a garden is preparing the soil correctly (i.e. Removing stones, adding compost, etc.) but once it's done and done properly, the difference in plant growth is nothing short of amazing (compared to just putting the plants in an unprepared site). Setting up a soil tank is definitely something that can require some time, skill and experience.



maxthedog123 said:


> I might consider it on the 55g when I move it, but I don't know if I'll have time for a major redo. I know the benefits - it comes down to time.


If you're *Really* pressed for time, then you could try setting some plants up in pots. Take a pot or container, plug the bottom w/ a stone or piece of window screening, add 1-1.5'' soil, cover w/ 1-1.5'' gravel, plant your plant in the soil layer being sure to rinse off any loose dirt on the top of the gravel and then add your planted pot to your tank. This is a great way to grow plants w/ big roots like Echinodorus and Cyptocorynes. (One of my local fish stores does this with a lot of their tanks - they have pots of plants growing in almost all of their tanks. They just remove or move the pots when they need to get fish for customers.)



maxthedog123 said:


> My one big question is what I stated above - if I do try to redo the substrate when/if I move it - do I need to let the soil sit in the tank for a while or can I just put the substrate in with the fish on the same day?


Ideally you would wait a week or two before adding the fish back after setting up a tank (to make sure there aren't any problems), but I've also added fish right away to a newly set up tank. Before you add your fish back, I'd be sure to make sure the water is clear, though. Trying to remove fish from a tank with muddy water isn't fun. (My first attempt at a soil-based tank didn't go very well; it was all sorts of muddy water because I didn't drain off the 2'' of muddy water after planting the plants. I tore it down the next day and reset it up, making sure I had covered the soil sub-layer throughly and drained off all the muddy water after I planted the plants and making sure the water was clear before filling it to the top.)


----------

