# *PIC HEAVY* Crypt problem... Need some expert advice please.



## philipraposo1982 (Aug 25, 2014)

I have been dealing with this issue for as long as I can remember (tank has been running for 10 months).

Symptoms:
- leaves are deteriorating
- first stage is the healthy leaves starts to show whitish or yellow or light green marks on leaves, see pic.



-from these areas, things spread and forms small holes.



- these holes keep growing and eventually the leaves die off completely. 
- seems like "crypt melt"


I have not moved these plants in a long time and some have been in spot since day one. This is a slow process and generally doesn't effect ALL leaves or ALL crypts i have. I have very many crypt species.



Not sure it is related but my Cryptocoryne Balansae (Cryptocoryne crispatula 'Balansae') crows well but only a few leaves at a time. max maybe 5 leaves per plant. then as new one comes the oldest one dies off.  sad.

The balansae leaves deteriorate much quicker compared to other crpyts. and it looks like more brown spots which start it off. then eventually the entire leaf goes really wilted and melts off. i don't have a leaf currently looking bad on these plants so i can't get a pic.

My crpyt spiralis crows nice and doesn't seem to be effected by either of these symptoms. instead the long leaves grow straight up and then the end wilt. not like a normal bending due to weight of the plant but rather a more stressed out look.

I hope some crpyt / plant experts can help me out.

I run no co2 or excel and if its simply a co2 problem than I will just deal with it as I don't plan to add any of the above. But in the case that its nutrient related I will work to correct it if I can.

I dose potassium, phosphates, and micros once a week at the following amounts.
k2so4 - 1/2 tsp
kh2po4 - 1/10 - 1/8 tsp
plantex csm+b micros - 1/4 tsp

i water change 50% a week and my nitrates normally read in the 10-20 range, I have never seen my nitrates hit that reddish 40ppm range.

temp is 80-81

lighting is finnex planted plus @ 24" above the substrate on for 10 hours a day.

if you look in my tank you won't find algae unless you looking with a magnifying glass and spot some gsa on the glass or the odd anubias. I don't have algae issues.

Flow in the tank comes from my eheim pro 3 2075 - g160. i removed the spray bar weeks ago. all plants still have a little sway and flow seems fine imo.

Substrate is safe t sorb, I always wondered if this could be the culprit. I do use diy root tabs and maybe I am not using them enough. Does this look like a nutrient deficiency?

Since crypts are my favourite plant and I have so many its important to me to try and grow them as good as I can.

Thanks for the help!!


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Crypt Melt is my guess.

How long have they been in your set up?


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## philipraposo1982 (Aug 25, 2014)

They have been in the tank a long time. Almost 10 months


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## Maryland Guppy (Mar 5, 2015)

Crypts are cool unique plants.

I have read on other forums that some crypts do not do well planted near other species of crypts.
I have not experienced this as of yet. Only 4 varieties for me, not too close to each other.
Only suffering the normal crypt melt when first introduced to new water parameters.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

I tend to think the answer to this problem is scissors.


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## philipraposo1982 (Aug 25, 2014)

Hey,

The best looking crypts in.my.tank are surrounded by all other crypts so I don't think that's it. Its most definitely not crypt.melt.in the standard way of new plant being introduced.

I really have no idea what it is. Maybe they want more nitrates?


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## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

balansae rarely has more than 4 or 5 leaves. What you observe is entirely normal for this plant. 

For the rest i suggest trying a lower light intensity.


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## philipraposo1982 (Aug 25, 2014)

Oh really? That sucks  why do they only get 4-5 leaves?


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## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

If you want a nice bushy _C. c. _var. _balansae_, the best way is to plant several of them a few cm. apart. They are a bit slowly reproducing, and their runners are rather long. So after a year or so, you can expect a few young plants to pop up, which can easily be 15 cm away from the parent plant. I advise to let these grow a while where they pop up, at least untill they are 15-20 cm high. then they are strong enough and you can replant them closer to the parent-plant.

I have a _C. crispatula _var. _balansae_ with 7 leaves at this moment, which is about the maximum size they get in my aquarium, with heavy fertilizing in the soil (but no added fertilizer in the water and without CO2).

I have seen these plants "in nature", in a European stream at a thermal spring where they are introduced by aquarists. Here they form several very big clusters (2-3 meter), and their leaves are also much bigger than in aquaria (4 cm broad). However, also here individual plants have only a few leaves, there are just many growing close together. I put some of these in my aquarium, after a while they looked identical to the ones from the shop. I think that they can grow bigger in the stream because they are growing in a very strong current (the current constantly brings CO2 and takes O2, producing a similar effect as CO2 fertilizing in aquaria - even though the CO2 concentration in the stream is likely low) and with a constant water refreshening. At the same time the soil is nutrient-rich because of alder-trees along the stream, whose roots extend into the stream-bottom. Also, the plants "catch" tree-leaves and other debris from the stream, which decompose between the plants and form small "hills of organic material", in which the plants are growing. So in the middle of the clumps of plants, the soil is very soft but higher than outside the clumps of plants. They don't grow in clean gravel in the stream, but in very soft decomposing organic material with some sand in between. If you try this in an aquarium, you likely get a very poor water quality because of all rotting material. In the stream, the current ensures an excellent water quality ...

p.s. 10 months is enough to see if a crypt species will survive the conditions in your aquarium, but some species need a lot more to reach a larger size. _C. beckettii _for instance can take 2 years or so from a small in-vitro plant from the shop to a nice cluster in the aquarium. Crypts are very nice plants, but you may need more patience with them. In general they don't need much fertilizer (in the water): you may be fertilizing algae in stead. In the water, I dose nothing except fish food.


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## philipraposo1982 (Aug 25, 2014)

Great info thanks. Glad to know its common for them to only have a few leaves at a time. They have been getting bigger and bigger each time. Some leaves are almost 17" long. They also seem to get wider like you described.

I have one plant that does something weird each time new growth starts. The tip of the leaf gets stuck in its own body of the plant and as the leaf grows it remains stuck. Forms a loop...

I have manually pulled it out the last 2 times and it continues to grow fine but ends up a little weird shape to it. I will try and get a pic if I t happens again.


FTS, you can see the balensae in the bar left carn area. I believe I have 3 plants currently. They are not as old as the other crypts.


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## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

They do the same weird thing in my aquarium and I cannot tell you why, because I don't have a clue 

I have seen the same occasionally in _Cryptocoryne aponogetifolia_.

p.s. congrats; you have a good looking aquarium


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## dirtmonkey (Mar 12, 2007)

This kind of thing used to happen a lot to me in tanks that got some natural light. There was enough changing weather or sunlight angle brightness in the room that it seemed to trigger the crypt reactions to sudden changes of any kind, sometimes a few times a year, but it was unpredictable. My tanks now are close enough to windows and skylights that I'm not getting very many crypts because of that. Just C. parva for now, because it didn't seem bothered before.

I don't think C. wendtii (the old green one) was bothered too much either, and there was one other one that was beautiful and never melted at all after the first planting, but of course it was from an unmarked tank in a pet shop and it never got an ID.


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## Chaoslord (Oct 3, 2011)

Potassium.

You don't have enough k to support old growth.


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