# Need help on new set up.



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Here is what i have : 29 Gallon tank, Eco Complete, 2 Co2 Bio Systems, 130 Watt Usa Satellite, 2 Angel Fish, 3 Gourami, 1 Catfish, 1 Algae Eater also used dry ferts. 

I have been trying to get plants to grow in this tank for about 8 months now and i can't get anything to grow really. Either i have problems with the plants not growning or i have a full alage bloom and walls of the tank turn so green. I want help in setting up my tank from scratch. I think i want to cut the lighting in half and see what i can grow from there. Also i want to know what can i grow with 65 watts over my 29 gallon tank with 2 Co2 Bio Systems? What kind of Ferts do i need and how much?I guess what i want is a medium to low maintance tank. I want to be able to grow a good carpet in the tank and i have never been able to do that. Also want a good middle and background plants. Please anyone let me know what you think about any of this and plans?


Thanks.


----------



## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

What diffuser are you using in the tank?


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

The one that came with the Co2 Kit its pump that pumps out the co2 into little bubbles. And the other tank i just a ladder diffuser.


----------



## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

Hmmm, well at over 4wpg, you are pushing the pedal pretty hard. You algae seems to be eating up your nutrients. I would lower the light load and dose NPK, and Flourish is cheap and easy to use. Start low and work your way up. Here is a link to start.http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_aquacalc.htm


----------



## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

With that much light (4.48wpg) if you ar not using ferts & if the C02 is not high enough, then that is the reasons for the algae issues.

Reducing the wattage down to 65 watts will give you 2.24wpg. This will be plenty for low to low-medium light plants. Plus you can get by with less ferts & C02.

For plants to grow properly you need to add nitrates, potassium, phosphates & micros. The Pfertz brand gives you these exact ferts in easy to dose pump bottles.

A few example for plants: Background... vals, sags, tiger lotus/Midground... Crypts, Tropica sword/Foreground... dwarf sag, four leaf clover, micro sword. Check out our PlantFinder for more plant ideas.


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Would you recommend Narrow Leaf Chain Sword Or Dwarf Sag for a foreground?


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

If i get the Pferts stuff how long do these bottles last? Also should i keep running the two Co2 things that i have?


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Anyone?


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

CO2 helps almost any planted tank. So, you can keep using the system you have, but stagger the start times on those two "bottles", so you end up changing one each week. That will help keep the concentration of CO2 more constant. Fluctuating CO2 concentration in the water triggers algae to start growing.

Trena was right in recommending reducing the light to 65 watts, at least until you are able to manage an aquarium with that light level. Then study the fertilizer forum here, reading up on PPS Pro and EI dosing methods, and read up on the Pfertz method. Pick the method that you think will be the easiest for you to follow, and follow it routinely.

Starting where you are now, you need to do a thorough cleaning of the tank, including vacuuming the substrate and discarding all algae infested plants or leaves. Do regular weekly or even twice weekly 50% or more water changes for 2 or 3 weeks, each time cleaning the glass surfaces thoroughly before doing the water changes. If you get some Flourish Excel and dose that per the directions on the bottle, that will help too.


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Ad far as dosing i have been dosing dry ferts. But haven't been doing that so much lately.


----------



## bradac56 (May 9, 2007)

As other said I'd crank down the spotlight as your in the "High Light" range I'd
go down to the 2.4/2.8 wpg range for eight to 10 hours a day, keep using the
C02 and dry ferts as they are cheaper and just as good.

Are you using the PPS-Classic or PPS-Pro formula from the "Science of Aquatic Fertilizing", or EI ?


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Im using the estimated dosage of dosing thats under this forum. I just want to get a crapet plant going right now and then if that works move on to other plants. Seems nothing i have in my tank ever grows.


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Going to make a order today for :

QTY
4 Vallisneria corkscrew
1 Singapore moss
1 Lobelia cardinalis small form
1 Amazon Sword
1 Cryptocoryne spiralis
6 Lilaeopsis mauritius
1 HEMIANTHUS CALLITRICHOIDES ROCKS


Do you think it will be good enough to start me off? Also think it will be the right amount?


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Making order from Aqua Botanic


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Still having alage problems. Cut the lighting back to half way and still keeps comming. I think i might be because i don't hardly have any plants in the tank right now maybe about 10. I just ordered :
Singapore Moss 1
Amazon Sword 1
Java Fern 1
Lilaeposis Mauritius 4
Lobelia Cardinalis 1
Cryptocoryne Balansae 4
Myriophylium Pinnatum 4
Cryptocoryne Wendtil 1
Aponogeton Crispus 1
Red Tiger Lotus 1

Think this should be enough to start me up?


----------



## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

It sounds like a lack of plants may be your problem coupled with a very high amount of light and no set fertilization schedule. You should take a look at this this thread by Bert H. It should be a big help to you.

Consistency goes a long way towards having a successful planted tank...consistent fertilizer additions, consistent CO2 levels, and consistent maintenance will give you success eventually. For the algae to go away, you will need to get in there and manually remove any visible algae. it is rare for algae to just die off without intervention. Once you get the plants growing well, you can remove any algae infected portions and replant the healthy, algae free portions.

As far as the plants are concerned, if you get healthy plants in decent quantities, you should be OK. Most of the plants on your list are slow growers. People like to recommend you use fast growing stem plants when setting up a tank. I have found slow growers to be fine as long as they are used in large quantities. Be warned that Sword will more than likely outgrow your tank very fast. It only took about 3 months for one to outgrow my 75g tank ;-)


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Also my stats are : 
7.2 pH 
.5 NH3 / NH4 
NO2 - 0 
NO3- 5


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

How do i figure out how much co2 i have from those stats?


----------



## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

Try here.http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_aquacalc.htm


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

I don't have the KH though how do i get that? Guess i need to go out and buy a KH test kit.


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

If you want to know how much CO2 is in your water you have to get a drop checker, and use it with 4 dKH distilled or deionized water in it.


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Where can i get that stuff at ? Also can't i just use the chart with PH and KH to figure out the PH?


----------



## chagovatoloco (Nov 17, 2007)

I have a setup very similar to this one. And I have been fighting algae for a year now with little success, until recently. After many hours of internet surfing I came to a middle ground with my 29 gallon. Thinking that with using the ei to dose I was adding too much. I tried every dosing method around and had no luck. I tried adjusting my lighting to just one bulb, the problem was that one side of the tank was dark. So I tried to stagger the light times and things got a little better but not like the tanks I have been seeing a where envious of. I did all of the work but still no luck. I cut the light down to a 6 hour period with both bulbs on. I thought that this was too little a photo period, I was wrong the tank looks great and is recovering from my ignorance. I have just a little algae left that is quickly dieing. I am a firm believer in tom barrs estamitive index, the only thing left to adjust was the photo period.


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Thanks i will try this out!!


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Here are some updated pics with the plants that came in.


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

No Comments?


----------



## lauraleellbp (Jan 31, 2008)

I think it will look really nice once everything grows in! Good job!


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Thanks!!!


----------



## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Are your algae issues subsiding? I don't see alot of fast growers in there. I see wysteria, cabomba and lobelia. They help a lot with any algae issues. Your tank is lightly planted. All the others grow slow and they have heavy roots. Lots of people, me included use root tabs for the heavy rooters. While your slow growers will grow and eventually fill in it will take a long time and you might be fighting algae.

Your plants look nice and healthy though !


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Algae issues have gotten better i still get i think green spot algae on the glass i guess that is what it it. Green spots kinda hard to get off. What other fast grower would you suggest and how much more should i plant? I know one thing the cabomba grows so fast about 2 inchs a day it seems. Wysteria hasn't grow really any i guess thats because its still changing because its underwater now. My Lilaeopsis Mauritius i don't think has grown at all. Also in the pic can you look at my Java Moss i think it is dead its brown with some parts green.


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Update


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Ordered a Milwaukee MA957 CO2 Regulator, Solenoid, Bubble Counter today so going to get pressurized CO2 hooked up hopefully next week.


----------



## Sphearion (Jan 28, 2008)

I don' think Java Moss ever "Dies" it just goes dormant like many mosses.

I thought I had killed mine somehow... it had started turning brownish after an algea outbreak, its now recovering quite nicely... it just takes a bit to get reanimated I guess


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Cool i will see if it does anything.


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Looked at the Java Moss last night and i saw some green tips on it so i guess its starting to grow?


----------



## lauraleellbp (Jan 31, 2008)

That is just a _lovely_ tank. Thanks for sharing it!


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Thanks for the commnet laural!


----------



## Sphearion (Jan 28, 2008)

if it has green tips thats a sure sign its growing and not dead  dont worry give it a few months and you will be ripping out golf ball sized clumps of it... I had a 10 gallon tank with about 40 watts of spiral type flouros in it a few years back and that stuff would litterally fill the tank in about 2 months time (not dosing ferts or any co2) the guppy babies loved it the parents were not so fond of it though


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Well good thats great to know.


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Ok i got my pressurized CO2 working and its injecting i think at 2 BPS. Well i did a PH test and it still shows the same thing whats going on here?


----------



## jazzlvr123 (Apr 29, 2007)

ph readings are rather worthless IMO all they can really do it tell you where your KH is since ph and Kh are in direct correlation. M y Crystal red shrimp tank has a ph reading of 5.2 and everything is doing great. its more important to make sure your KH is stable this can be achieved through proper fertilizing, either EI or PPS both will generally yeid the same results if you do it correctly


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

I still expected it to drop with me changing to pressurized CO2


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

If you get a drop checker and use it with 4 dKH distilled or deionized water in it you can tell if you have enough CO2 in the water. You can't go by bubble rate.


----------



## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

Have coming in guess will have to wait till then. Still figured the PH to drop some.


----------

