# Koi and Gold Fish Problems



## Qwertus (Oct 14, 2008)

I couldn't find a fish illness section so I'll post here for now.

I have a small koi (about 5 inch) and 2 commets in a 55 gal temporarily. I recently add the koi and within a few days i notice the koi started to lose a few scales. Now the gold fishes start to lose scales too. The temperature is at 75 F atm and pH is around 6.5 from my most recent test today.

Normally to cure ich i just add aquarium salt and raise temp to 80 F, but with the gold fish and koi, is it going to be a problem for them?

Thanks for reading.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

I wonder if they aren't fighting if they've all suddenly started losing scales. Do they appear to be getting along okay?

I'm by no means an expert on Goldies, so hopefully someone else will jump in with other ideas.


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## Cliff Mayes (Jan 29, 2007)

What size tank and how long has it been set up?

I have never seen Goldfish lose scales unless it was from being banged around.

Goldfish get big but Koi get huge, three feet or more is not outrageous for Koi which is why Koi do not end up in tanks especially with Goldfish. For a time, depending upon conditions the Comets will keep pace with the Koi as per size but eventually the Koi can outstrip the Goldfish. Singletails such as Comets can take care of themselves but Fancies are, at times, slow and cumbersome.

I have had Goldfish in higher temps for weeks but 75 seems a bit high as a normal thing. Koi can withstand temp variences as can Goldfish and some folk use salt as a normal additive although I do not.


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## Qwertus (Oct 14, 2008)

I'm just storing them inside for the winter, they are in a 55 gal as i stated on my first post. I have never seen they fight their fin is still in perfect condition no rips, just the scales are coming off for some weird reason. I'm thinking of raising the temp 1F daily until i reach 80 for 1-2 weeks and add aquarium salt to get rid of ich first then worry about that scale loss after. Only the Koi have ich and only the gold fishes lose scales atm they haven't infected each other yet; the entire tank prob is infected with ich since the koi has it so there is no point of isolating any of them.


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

Never saw goldfish/koi with ich! hmmm.
They don't like warm water. I'd try salt but keep it cool.
They don't like the 55 gallon tank either, I'll bet.


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## Qwertus (Oct 14, 2008)

I realize that, but the koi is only 5 inch and the gold fish bear reaching 2 inch. Those in a 55gal atm isnt overstocking, but when the koi grow bigger than I prob need a much bigger place to store them inside. I already have a pond that is around 1000 gal outside for them in the summer months.


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## jnaz (May 18, 2007)

Koi can get startled very easy. Maybe, when the lights go on in the tank on something else is scaring them and they are banging around the tank. The koi going crazy might make scare the godfish which causes them to hit parts of the tank as well. They are new to the tank and probably are not used to your tank and all of the stimulation in the room yet. If this is the case, they will calm down in time. Just a thought.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

I'ver had white spot on my koi in my quarantine pond a couple of times. It's not that rare at all but you don't always see the white spots and have to do a scrape to see the parasites under a microscope.

I'm puzzled why White spot has even been mentioned though as fish losing scales is not symptom of it.  Is agree with the idea that your koi being in a glass tank is getting startled and crashing around which knocked some of his scales off. His crashing around is likely to knock into the goldfish in such cramped quarters (compared to a pond that is) and startle them which has probably caused their scale loss. Covering the tank is probably well worth a try and good advice.


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## Cliff Mayes (Jan 29, 2007)

Koi usually are kept at a rate of one fish per four hundred gallons.

The fish getting banged around in the tank is very possible.


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## Qwertus (Oct 14, 2008)

The koi has no scale loss so far, just the ich. The gold fish has no ich just the scale loss. There is nothing in the tank that could damage the gold fish. So what you guys are suggesting is up the temp and cure the ich first then worry about the remaining problems after ich has been cure? What is the recommend dosage for salt in freshwater tanks?


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Qwertus said:


> The koi has no scale loss so far, just the ich. The gold fish has no ich just the scale loss. There is nothing in the tank that could damage the gold fish. So what you guys are suggesting is up the temp and cure the ich first then worry about the remaining problems after ich has been cure? What is the recommend dosage for salt in freshwater tanks?


But your first post says, "I recently add the koi and within a few days i notice the koi started to lose a few scales. Now the gold fishes start to lose scales too." You never mentioned Ich.  White spot is a real killer in koi and you should really do a scrape and look under a microscope to confirm the diagnosis before treating. If it is white spot then you have two real options; salt at 0.5oz per imperial gallon (4.5 litres) or Malachite Green and Formalin. For more info on koi heath check out the articles on this website; what the author of this website doesn't know about koi isn't worth worrying about! His book, Advanced Koi Diagnosis and Treatment, is excellent too.


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