# How do I get rid of this brown water?



## Ivyrose (Aug 9, 2011)

I finally got my tank set up with the properly washed dirt then a thin layer of sand and a layer of gravel. My problem is that some of the plants drifted up when I added water and the dirt came up with them. When I try to suction the dirt off the top of the gravel it disturbs more plants and then I've got the same mess over again. The filter is doing a good job but I still have some dirt on top of the gravel and the water is brown. Will this eventually clear up? 

Any advice will be welcome.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

You should have about a half inch or so of soil and about an inch of gravel topping. Make a hole with your finger in the gravel and insert the plant into it, then if necessary push the gravel around it. The plant will stay.

BTW, the layer of sand won't cause any problems if it's thin enough, but it won't help anything either.

Good luck!

Bill


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## Ivyrose (Aug 9, 2011)

Many thanks for your reply.I've got about an inch of soil and the same of gravel but now that the soil has leeched out I can't seem to get it cleaned up, I've changed the water twice and tried to suck up the dirt on top of the gravel. Should I try to change the water again and get up the dirt or will it eventually settle down into the gravel? The water is cloudy and light brown colored, will this hurt the plants. I'm afraid to put fish in there until I get this sorted out.

Thanks again.


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## wi_blue (Apr 5, 2005)

What kind of filter do you have on the tank? When you say washed the soil, did you fallow the mineralized soil program? What I mean is did you soil, drain, and resoak the soil till it quit leaching tannins?


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## Ivyrose (Aug 9, 2011)

I have a Tetra filter which seems to be doing a good job because I have to keep changing the filters. I washed and soaked this dirt for more than 2 weeks then put it in the sun to dry and soaked it again but then put it through a sieve there are still some very small pieces of wood chips in there which I asked about on this forum and was told it was OK not to get every scrap of wood out. From a huge bag of organic dirt I only ended up with enough to put a 1 inch layer in a 55 gallon tank. Do you think it's the wood bits causing the problem?

Thanks for your help.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

I have set up about 15 NPT's with about an inch of soil and an inch of gravel, and I've never had the kind of problem that you are having. That includes times when I have uprooted and replanted large numbers of plants. There is cloudiness, but it disappears in a day and the soil always stays where it belongs.

The only thing that I can think of is that the grain of the gravel is too large. I use gravel with a size of 2 mm to 3 mm. Some use a slightly larger grain, but if it is pebble sized, it is too big.

If you really have that much soil and gravel of that size, and you are still having that problem, then the tank is cursed. That happens sometimes, too. :smile:

Good luck, Ivyrose!

Bill


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## Wildtype Devil (Sep 23, 2011)

Ivyrose,

it happens sometimes.... afterall not all of us use exactly similar standard soil and gravel. there is no specification for this. i think your soil is too humous...

What i'll try to do in such case would be, let the tank stand for 2-3 days without disturbing the substrate... much of browning or cloudiness shall settle as soil particles settle down. Also i suggest, you should turn the filter off, as it might cause disturbance in water and prevent the particulate matter from settling down, besides damaging and clogging the filter.

As time passes humous shall get waterlogged and decompose, thus settling down entirely. In the meantime, you should add 2-3 guppies or similar fish to check wether the tank and water is safe..


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## Ivyrose (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the replies. My tank may be cursed oh crikey!!!! I will try turning off the filter for a few days and see if that works I did wonder about buying that stuff in the petstore that's supposed to help clear cloudy water or is that not a good idea? I don't understand why the size of the gravel would be the problem, it's pea sized is that too big?

I appreciate all the help because I feel that I've got a real mess here.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

If the gravel is the size of a pea, that's the problem. Some folks say that works, but plants can't root very well in gravel of that size, and it is to large to do much to keep the soil where it should be.

The fix is to replace the pea sized gravel with 2mm - 3mm gravel. I think it would be easier to just start over. 

Good luck!

Bill


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## Ivyrose (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks I had no idea this was going to be such a problem. I think I'll try to turn off the filter and see what happens if that won't work then I'll have to replace the gravel.

Thanks for your help.


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## Wildtype Devil (Sep 23, 2011)

Ivyrose,

Has your tank cleared up? keep us updated...


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## Ivyrose (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks for asking but no it has not cleared up. The filters are always dirty so I don't know where this brown stuff is coming from. I washed the gravel before I used it so I'm really puzzled. My plants seem to be doing OK with some of them growing new shoots but some of them have some frazzled leaves although I think this may be a normal part of being transplanted.
Tomorrow I'm going to buy some new gravel and then drain the tank and start over. If anyone has any other ideas I'd welcome them.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

What are you using for a syphon? I set up a dirt tank recently and found I needed to change the water every day at first to deal with the tannins. I am not using a filter just a small pump. It has been about a month and now I am still changing the water every five days or so. (100% of the water.)
I found that using a typical syphon made one huge mess. So I started using airline tubing to fill the tank. I am still using the syphon to empty the tank but I don’t use it very close to the surface. Also removing it can be a problem if it empties as it breaks from the water tension, kind of flushes out the water. 
So some things you can do. Don’t syphon the substrate surface. Put something under the syphon when you remove it. Use a smaller tubing. Put something under the tubing when you fill the aquarium.


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## activesize (Jun 26, 2011)

Ivyrose said:


> I finally got my tank set up with the properly washed dirt then a thin layer of sand and a layer of gravel. My problem is that some of the plants drifted up when I added water and the dirt came up with them. When I try to suction the dirt off the top of the gravel it disturbs more plants and then I've got the same mess over again. The filter is doing a good job but I still have some dirt on top of the gravel and the water is brown. Will this eventually clear up?
> 
> Any advice will be welcome.


Depending on the fineness of your sand layer, and also it's thickness to some degree, I think the sand could cause problems with nutrient uptake by the plants in the long term after minerals start to be depleted from the soil underlayer. In order to stay purely El Natural, if the sand is the uniform fineness of pool filter sand then I suggest you remove all the plants and gravel and siphon out that sand layer as best you can at an angle. If you find that is not possible or practical then you'll have to break it down and start all over again.

On the other hand, if your sand layer is coarser than that then just cover the soil debris that you're having trouble getting up with a little more gravel here and there.

Also, is your suction tube from the Tetra down too low? I suspect that it is.


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## Ivyrose (Aug 9, 2011)

I tore down the tank yesterday and got rid of the brown water which smelled foul, removed the gravel and replaced it with fine gravel. The layer of sand was just a sprinkling to try to seal in the substrate so I don't think it would be a problem. I really didn't even see the sand when I got down to the substrate and I ended up picking the gravel out by hand in order not to disturb the soil. The intake on the filter is at it's highest level so I don't that's what the problem is. I really don't understand why the water smelled so awful and it really was vile.
Today the water is a little cloudy but it's a white sort of cloudy and not brown at all which I take is from the gravel although I washed it twice, a great improvement from the brown nasty stuff. I just have to think it's the tanins leeching through I can't think of what else would cause the water to be this color.


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## wi_blue (Apr 5, 2005)

Sounds like its on the right track. Though I was wondering if you could discribe the smell.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


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## Ivyrose (Aug 9, 2011)

wi_blue said:


> Sounds like its on the right track. Though I was wondering if you could discribe the smell.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


It was like something rotten, maybe rotten garbage or drains, strong enough that you could smell it in the next room. I still don't understand why changing the gravel got rid of the brown water though.


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## activesize (Jun 26, 2011)

Ivyrose said:


> It was like something rotten, maybe rotten garbage or drains, strong enough that you could smell it in the next room. I still don't understand why changing the gravel got rid of the brown water though.


I think your soil has gone anaerobic. You got rid of the smell temporarily by changing most or all of the water and replacing the gravel. The rotten smell will come back though because it's in your soil. Perhaps it happened during your soil soaking. I think you need to increase the water circulation, probably with a circulation pump down near the gravel, to eventually convert the population of soil bacteria into predominantly aerobic types. If your plants can't handle the extra circulation then they have to be temporarily floated, or removed, or put where the circulation is not so high. It could take weeks. Good luck.


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## wi_blue (Apr 5, 2005)

+1 

I would even consider replacing the soil.


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## Ivyrose (Aug 9, 2011)

activesize said:


> I think your soil has gone anaerobic. You got rid of the smell temporarily by changing most or all of the water and replacing the gravel. The rotten smell will come back though because it's in your soil. Perhaps it happened during your soil soaking. I think you need to increase the water circulation, probably with a circulation pump down near the gravel, to eventually convert the population of soil bacteria into predominantly aerobic types. If your plants can't handle the extra circulation then they have to be temporarily floated, or removed, or put where the circulation is not so high. It could take weeks. Good luck.


Oh gosh you've burst my little bubble of happiness! I was ecstatic this morning when I got up and saw the tank was crystal clear, I thought I had cracked the code. Not sure what anaerobic is but it sounds awful and how did it happen? I bought the organic soil recommended by Diana Walstad and spent about 2 weeks washing, putting it out in the sun then washing and sifting again. I've moved the intake down to a much lower level, I'll get another pump tomorrow but is there anything else I can do to correct this short of tearing the whole thing apart which I don't know if I can stand to do? I've been working on this for weeks I've been looking at fish to put in there.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

IMO, you don't have to worry about an "anaerobic" substrate. Assuming that you have capped the soil with appropriate-sized gravel, you should be ready to add some plants.

Turn off the filter and plant!

And, keep it simple.

Also, keep us informed.

Good luck!

Bill


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## Ivyrose (Aug 9, 2011)

aquabillpers said:


> IMO, you don't have to worry about an "anaerobic" substrate. Assuming that you have capped the soil with appropriate-sized gravel, you should be ready to add some plants.
> 
> Turn off the filter and plant!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the encouragement Bill, I'm trying the suggestions on here. I've already put plants in and they seem to be doing well apart from some of them looking frazzled but some have new shoots. I'm going to give this a try and see what happens. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Thanks to everyone for the advice!


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## activesize (Jun 26, 2011)

aquabillpers said:


> IMO, you don't have to worry about an "anaerobic" substrate. Assuming that you have capped the soil with appropriate-sized gravel, you should be ready to add some plants.


I agree with that. Lakes bottoms are naturally anaerobic. Other than the smell involved when you poke your finger in there it doesn't seem to matter to the plants at all whether the smell is really noticeable or more mild.

Sorry to burst your bubble *Ivyrose*, but it seemed that you were describing an extreme anaerobic condition. If your water is clear now then just put lots of plants in the soil and you'll probably be fine.


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## Ivyrose (Aug 9, 2011)

The water really was awful but it's still clear today. I was in a state of panic because it smelled as though something had rotted in there but changing the gravel and water seems (fingers and toes crossed) to have done the trick.

I know it's difficult to give advice when you can't actually see the tank but thank you for the help.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Be sure you have some deep rooted plants like vallisneria, cryptocoryne, sagittaria, etc. The plant roots can actually carry oxygen down into the soil layer and help prevent severly anaerobic (oxygen-poor) conditions.


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## Ivyrose (Aug 9, 2011)

Here's a list of the plants I have.

Aponogeton Crispus
Cryptcoryne Cordata
Banana Plant
Dwarf Lily Plant
Echinodorus Angustifolia
Lace Java Fern
Nesaea Red Leaved
Rotala Wallichil
Pigmy Sword
Madagascar Lace Plant

I'm really a novice at this so if there are any other plants you can recommend I would be very grateful. Now and then I get a stream of bubbles from the substrate I have no idea what that means.

Thanks again for taking the time to help.


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## Wildtype Devil (Sep 23, 2011)

> Now and then I get a stream of bubbles from the substrate I have no idea what that means.


It is H2S (if it smells like rotten eggs then that's a sure-shot proof)

If your tank is pretty new, it is likely that you have some detritus or other matter in the substrate which has been slowly rotting. It should stop after a little while (few more weeks) as the substrate and everything in it becomes used to being submerged.

I'm pretty sure that what you are experiencing is pretty normal, though.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

In a new soil tank, bubbles from the substrate are almost certainly CO2. This can be a good thing!


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## activesize (Jun 26, 2011)

Ivyrose said:


> Here's a list of the plants I have.
> 
> Aponogeton Crispus
> Cryptcoryne Cordata
> ...


I'd say mostly nitrogen, along with CO2, oxygen, along with some other trace gases and noxious gases. That would be pretty much normal. I don't believe that these bubbles present any danger to fish or any aquatic life at all.

Your dwarf lily and red lily should put out nice large root systems. Mine do. Your crypt should grow nice bushy roots too. Since your Angustifolia is an Echinodorus then it should grow nice roots also. I believe that one will spread around like tall grass too, which is good.

How big is your tank?


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## Ivyrose (Aug 9, 2011)

It's a 55 gallon tank. I've put some fish in and so far no problems.


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