# SAE’s good bye!



## ray-the-pilot (May 14, 2008)

I finally couldn’t take it any more! My Siamese Algae Eaters were just not eating algae and devastating my plants! I went to my LFS and traded my three SAE’s for three Oto Cats. I know that this was not an equal trade on a cost basis but I hate SAE’s. They are nasty and aggressive. They attack other fish and devour certain plants.

Is my experience common?


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*

I dont think you have (had) SAEs based on my experiences keeping them.
Sounds VERY uncharacteristic.
http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/

Otos are great but fussy about water conditions and acclimation plus they really only eat green algae.

good luck.


----------



## peteski312 (Feb 15, 2008)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*

In my experience with larger sae's and even plecos, once they get old and or lazy they would rather eat flake or bloodworms then boring old algae. I keep them because i have room and like to know the have a great home.


----------



## hooha (Apr 21, 2005)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*

I've heard of SAE's eating plants, but if they are very territorial and aggressive it sounds like you had one of the "False" SAE's (flying fox/etc).


----------



## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

My SAE's ate my wallichii. They can be horrid. I got rid of mine too. I do have 2 flying foxes and they leave it alone. Go figure!....


----------



## gibmaker (Jan 3, 2007)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*

I have had them for over a year and they still eat algae, don't harass other fish, and they never eat my plants.


----------



## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Adult SAE's definitely develop an appetite for a variety of 'greenery', and not just algae.  You cannot keep moss, wallichii, and a variety of fine leaved plants can all be their own personal salad bars. BUT, I have found that if I don't have one in each of my 50's traces of bba start to show up. My CO2 levels are fine, and over time I have just attributed it to my water conditions (very hard). You learn to live with them if you have to.


----------



## Vojs (Apr 5, 2007)

I have given away all of my SAE a year ago, they have eaten almost all of my Java moss and Riccia, and did not do anything about the algae.


----------



## gibmaker (Jan 3, 2007)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*

maybe you guys are feeding them too much? I feed mine once a day with blood worms. They never eat my plants and always eat algae, maybe I am just lucky?


----------



## Skrej (Jan 11, 2009)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*

So far, my SAE isn't eating any plants, but he is an aggressively territorial b*st*rd.

Unfortunately, his territory is wherever he happens to be at the moment, so it's more like a personal space bubble. Any other fish gets to close to him, and he chases them off. :axe: Doesn't seem to nip, just chases. Just a crotchety, grumpy fish who wants to be left alone, I guess.

I've seen him cleaning plants, but not actually eating them. So far, he's a great algae eater, always looking and sucking. The tank is algae-free at the moment, though, so he will eat flakes, also.

What I appreciate about my SAE is his tendency to clean vertical surfaces. He's often working his way up a plant stem, or the airline tube, or the siphon return tube.

I don't currently have any mosses or Riccia, though, so I can't say for sure he'd leave them alone.


----------



## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

Maybe he's lonely. My 3 SAEs are always together.
As for "sucking"? Are you sure it's an SAE? Mine "nibble delicately".

I like my 3. They are fine little cigars.


----------



## Six (May 29, 2006)

I have a 6" SAE in a plant tank and he leaves everything alone (crypts, red root floater, salvinia oblongifolia, pellia, mini pellia, subwassertang, sword plant, java fern, bolbitis...) and I have 4 in my other well planted tank (3" fish) and hey dont bother several hygro sp., downoi, tennelus, najas, pellia, or java fern. They do display at eachother a lot (side shimmy/tail whacking) but leave everything else alone. My rainbowfish pair keep them in line. 

sorry to hear your bad luck. ive never had problems with mine. they will eat regular food, but you cant blame um. fish are opportunistic.


----------



## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

The worst thing my SAEs ever did was to refuse being caught. Can't blame a fish for that!


----------



## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

Mine eat my Rotala wallichii and 'vietnam' big time..... :-(


----------



## gravy9 (Aug 28, 2008)

Folks, I have 3 SAEs in my 38-gallon tank. Based on what everyone's saying, I should remove them. I put them in there to take care of any algae in the tank. What algae eaters should I swap them for, should I find them cleaning out any plants?

Thank you.


----------



## berniekooi (Jan 26, 2009)

I have 2 SAEs in my 72 gallon tank and do a great job cleaning up the hair algea and no not bother any other fish. Now the CAE is a different story...


----------



## galettojm (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*

I have two SAE, one is 5 years old and the other is almost 2.

I have these plants in the tank:
# Ludwigia arcuata
# Ludwigia glandulosa
# Cabomba furcata
# Echinodorus tenellus
# Echinodorus uruguayensis
# Eleocharis minima
# Rotala rotundifolia
# Sagittaria subulata
# Rotala macrandra
# Nymphoides sp Taiwan
# Limnophila aromatica
# Glossoestigma elationides
# Rotala wallichii
# Rotala sp "Vietnam"
# Myriophylum tuberculatum
# Echinodorus bleheri
# Echinodorus ozelot red
# Marsilea creanata
# Anubia brateri ver nana
# Cryptocoryne ponderifolia
# Cryptocoryne wendii "green"
# Heterantera zosterifolia
# Rotala rotundifolia var "colaratta"
# Blyxa japonica
# Java moss
# Microsorum pteropus
# Microsorum pteropus var. "Philipinas"
# Riccia
# Proserpinaca palustris
# Echinodorus scheleteri
# Aponogeton undulatus
# Aponogeton crispus

I have never seen them eating the plants.

What I have seen is the SAEs cleaning plants with a lot of long filamentous algae, that no other fish eat.

Bye,

Juan


----------



## Six (May 29, 2006)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*



gravy9 said:


> Folks, I have 3 SAEs in my 38-gallon tank. Based on what everyone's saying, I should remove them. I put them in there to take care of any algae in the tank. What algae eaters should I swap them for, should I find them cleaning out any plants?
> 
> Thank you.


I don't know if that's the consensus, but ottos and shrimp would be less boisterous and more manageable in a smaller aquarium.


----------



## taoyeah (Aug 8, 2007)

my 6 months old sae started eating my java moss now


----------



## ray-the-pilot (May 14, 2008)

This is interesting? Some people seem to have no trouble with their SAE and others do.

In my case, I am certain that I have True SAE's because I researched them before I bought them and went to a place that advertised them as True SAE's and they physically fit the description of True SAE’s. 

At first the three I had in my 50 gal tank seemed tame enough and acted as I expected. They chased each other and did some displays. As they grew they became more aggressive toward other fish, especially at feeding time. They were very aggressive when I fed them algae tablets and aggressively chased other fish way. I believe they were in a mating mode but I could never verify any eggs because they typically went into the dense plants (They are actually rather shy towards humans).

They gradually started eating more and more plants. They particularly liked tender new growth and ate the central rosettes from my sward plants. At first I thought that this was some type of rot but I figured it out after many of the plants developed peculiar U shaped hole in the leaves about the size of a SAE sucker. 

I think I’ll stick with Oto’s from here on.


----------



## galettojm (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*



ray-the-pilot said:


> This is interesting? Some people seem to have no trouble with their SAE and others do.
> 
> In my case, I am certain that I have True SAE's because I researched them before I bought them and went to a place that advertised them as True SAE's and they physically fit the description of True SAE's.
> 
> ...


Now I am really confused. I had the hope that maybe you were confusing with the other algae eaters.
Here in Argentina is normal that false SAEs are sold as SAEs.
But if you are positive about the identification, so it is a behavior I have never seen.

Bye,

Juan


----------



## taoyeah (Aug 8, 2007)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*

this is my sae.in the first 6 months they doing great,and my javamoss grow nicely,now the moss are dying.i am going to get all these 3 sae out tonight.


----------



## galettojm (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*



taoyeah said:


> this is my sae.in the first 6 months they doing great,and my javamoss grow nicely,now the moss are dying.i am going to get all these 3 sae out tonight.


Yes, you are absolutely right. That is a true SAE.

Questions:
How old was the SAE when it began eating the plants?
What food are you giving to the SAEs?

This is my young SAE:









Bye,

Juan


----------



## gibmaker (Jan 3, 2007)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*



gravy9 said:


> Folks, I have 3 SAEs in my 38-gallon tank. Based on what everyone's saying, I should remove them. I put them in there to take care of any algae in the tank. What algae eaters should I swap them for, should I find them cleaning out any plants?
> 
> Thank you.


If they are not hurting your plants or other tank mates I would leave them


----------



## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

What a fatty! He's eating something!


----------



## taoyeah (Aug 8, 2007)

he jsut started eating my all moss now.afte i bought them for 6 months.i feed my fish bloodworm ,planton.brime shrimp.he is not aggrassive at all.but really killing my java moss.flame moss.string moss now.so i am going to trade something in LFS,i will get a young 1 when there is more algea.


----------



## KraKen (Jul 17, 2008)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*

He might just not be getting enough plant matter if he's already eaten all the algae, you could try giving him some vegetables.

I've also found that neither ottos nor shrimp eat hair/string algae or cladifora, the only animals I've heard of that eat it are SAEs and American flag fish.


----------



## Skrej (Jan 11, 2009)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*



Skrej said:


> So far, my SAE isn't eating any plants, but he is an aggressively territorial b*st*rd.
> 
> Unfortunately, his territory is wherever he happens to be at the moment, so it's more like a personal space bubble. Any other fish gets to close to him, and he chases them off. :axe: Doesn't seem to nip, just chases. Just a crotchety, grumpy fish who wants to be left alone, I guess.
> 
> ...


Okay, I need to amend my original statement. After a bit of research, it turns out I do not have a real SAE, and despite what my lfs store me, I do have one of the Chinese Algae Eaters.:---)

I got suspicious after the above pics showed nice straight black stripes, when mine has a row of connected rough diamond shapes.

This explains the aggression with my poser of a SAE.

Mea culpa. Or rather Mea LFS culpa.


----------



## gibmaker (Jan 3, 2007)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*



Skrej said:


> Okay, I need to amend my original statement. After a bit of research, it turns out I do not have a real SAE, and despite what my lfs store me, I do have one of the Chinese Algae Eaters.:---)
> 
> I got suspicious after the above pics showed nice straight black stripes, when mine has a row of connected rough diamond shapes.
> 
> ...


Get rid of that thing it will get huge.


----------



## galettojm (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*



gibmaker said:


> Get rid of that thing it will get huge.


Yes, and it could be dangerous for other fish when it grows:

According to this articule: "It becomes a bogus cleaner and outright peaceful-fish-killer as it grows."

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebindex/saes.htm

Bye,

Juan


----------



## gasteriaphile (Nov 25, 2008)

*SAE's good bye! wait a minute, hello?!?!!*



> Okay, I need to amend my original statement. After a bit of research, it turns out I do not have a real SAE, and despite what my lfs store me, I do have one of the Chinese Algae Eaters.
> 
> I got suspicious after the above pics showed nice straight black stripes, when mine has a row of connected rough diamond shapes.
> 
> ...


*The majority of the posts on this thread are missing the point. The issue is not whether SAE's do this or that to your plants, etc. The issue is whether or not you have a genuine Siamese Algae Eater! As long as we are not tieing down what we are talking about we will be going around in circles like this thread.

There is an excellent article on this subject, written by a nice young lady who has the website "fishalicous". Please go here: http://fishaliciousfish.blogspot.com/

Once you have read her article I think that you will find out why there is all this inconsistency of behaviours. The true Siamese Algae Eater (Crossocheilus siamensis) is seldom found in the trade; which is OK as there is an algae eater (Crossocheilus langei) which does do what it is supposed to. But the differences visually between the "good algae eater", and the so-so ones, and the absolutely WRONG ones is subtle and requires some self-education.

Read the article and I believe you will see why this thread has been so long and so inconclusive. It is a simple matter of misidentification, made that way by sloppy nomenclature on the part of fish sellers who don't know 'what is what'.

g*


----------



## galettojm (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*

After reading the articles I have to admitted that I was also wrong.

According to the article I have two beautiful _Crossocheilus langei_.

Their eyes are honey-colored above, white below and black stripe in the middle. And also both have a white belly with an elongate blackish blotch around the vent.

That is probably why I have not seen the negatives behaviors described in the tread.

Bye,

Juan


----------



## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

I've observed about the same as what others have mentioned here. I kept 3 in my 180g tank. No BBA. They ate R. wallachi and flame moss to bare nubs but left R. 'Vietnam' and everything else alone. After more than a year two jumped out in the same week. BBA started showing up. I'm now debating about adding two more.

Still debating.

Still debating.

We'll see. It's a rare thing to prefer a small quantity of BBA to a fish.


----------



## galettojm (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*



BryceM said:


> I've observed about the same as what others have mentioned here. I kept 3 in my 180g tank. No BBA. They ate R. wallachi and flame moss to bare nubs but left R. 'Vietnam' and everything else alone. After more than a year two jumped out in the same week. BBA started showing up. I'm now debating about adding two more.
> 
> Still debating.
> 
> ...


Which type of Crossocheilus did you have according to this article http://fishaliciousfish.blogspot.com/ ?


----------



## nfrank (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*

I enjoyed visiting http://www.fishaliciousfish.blogspot.com/ to read about Crossocheilus langei and some other relatives of the SAE (or maybe other SAEs ). Very nice site.

As mentioned, the snout is a good distintuishing feature among the fishes with zig zag center line, as are other features in Niederle's table.
However, you also need to look carefully at the dorsal fin. You will see that siamensis does not have any black edge rays. This was pointed out by Liisa in our 1996 article and is not mentioned in the more recent references. You can see the rays in Niederle's picture of langei.... and possibly on Fishalicious.
Although my eyes are not as good as they were in '96, i will have to take a closer look at my fish.
--Neil


----------



## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Well, I don't find that a very easy question to answer, since I don't really think that particular blog represents the last word on the taxonomy of the Crossocheilus genus.

I've pretty carefully researched the fish I've purchased and I believe them to be the real deal - C. siamensis.

The fish that she labeled as Crossocheilus Langei is slightly "off" IMO and probably isn't a true C. siamensis either.


----------



## galettojm (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*



BryceM said:


> Well, I don't find that a very easy question to answer, since I don't really think that particular blog represents the last word on the taxonomy of the Crossocheilus genus.
> 
> I've pretty carefully researched the fish I've purchased and I believe them to be the real deal - C. siamensis.
> 
> The fish that she labeled as Crossocheilus Langei is slightly "off" IMO and probably isn't a true C. siamensis either.


I don't know either if that particular blog represents the last word on the taxonomy of the Crossocheilus genus. But it gives a probable explanation why we have so wide behavior discrepancies. Should´t at least check it out if it´s correct?

My two Crossocheilus have never touched my java moss.


----------



## gasteriaphile (Nov 25, 2008)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*



BryceM said:


> Well, I don't find that a very easy question to answer, since I don't really think that particular blog represents the last word on the taxonomy of the Crossocheilus genus.
> 
> I've pretty carefully researched the fish I've purchased and I believe them to be the real deal - C. siamensis.
> 
> The fish that she labeled as Crossocheilus Langei is slightly "off" IMO and probably isn't a true C. siamensis either.


*Bryce, I don't believe anyone, esp. the authoress, stated that her article was the last word on the taxonomy! She's just a hobbyist like us all. Albeit a very keen one! 

Also, in my reading of her article she did not equate C. langei with C. siamensis. In fact, that was one of the main points of her work, the fact that C. siamensis is seldom in the trade whereas C. langei is.

Cheers, Breck*


----------



## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*

OK, let me back up here. I certainly didn't mean to be grumpy in my reply. It probably came off that way. I didn't feel that the question was a fair one: "According to her article, what fish do you have?"

I'm not trying to knock her article. It's well done, but I'm not sure I agree with her points about C. siamensis and C. langei and the labels attached to her photos. As such I find it a little awkward to apply one of her designations to my own fish. I do agree that there are many masquerading species out there that are frequently passed off as C. siamensis. Behaviour of these species varies widely. I also don't agree that true C. siamensis are almost impossible to find. That might have been true three or four years ago, but I've seen "the real McCoy" in lots of plant-oriented LFS's lately.

Throw on top of this even more ongoing confusion about what a "true" C. siamensis is, and it becomes the usual taxonomy mess. For that reason alone I'm not really willing to specify with any certainty that what I have are members of the one and true siamensis species.

I'd also be hesitant to suggest that certain species always eat java moss and other species never do. I've had fish that I raised from the same brood with with wide differences in eating behaviors.


----------



## galettojm (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*



BryceM said:


> I'd also be hesitant to suggest that certain species always eat java moss and other species never do. I've had fish that I raised from the same brood with with wide differences in eating behaviors.


I agree with you.

But I just was been curious to know if your Crossocheilus have eyes honey-colored above, white below and black stripe in the middle and also have a white belly with an elongate blackish blotch around the vent.

Bye,

Juan


----------



## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

I'll try to get some photos of them. With the camera that I have it isn't that easy to get a quality shot, but we'll see what happens.


----------



## gasteriaphile (Nov 25, 2008)

*Re: SAE's good bye!*

*Hi All! 

Going back over all of the posts on this thread, the majority of them were not concerned with what species of Crossocheilus they have. In fact, my guess is that the ones who are tearing their hair out over the behavior of their "Siamese Algae Eaters" have some species of "Flying Fox" (Epalzeorhynchos spp.).

The "Flying Fox" is confused with the true algae eaters of genus Crossocheilus because all of these fishes have a strong horizontal band running the length of the body and on into the caudal area. One way to easily differentiate the "evil" Flying Foxes from the good guys is that the Fox has two pairs of barbels on the upper lip. And in fact it is related more to barbs than catfish. The "Siamese Algae Eater" has only one pair of barbels on the upper lip. Another characteristic that will fairly easily tell you if you have an algae eater or just a vegetative terrorist is that the algae eaters have transparent fins and the Fox doesn't.

Now as the aforementioned article explains, not all Crossocheilus are created equal!  C. siamensis is the one that is so famous for its algae eating abilities. But as also said before, this is not the species that is usually sold as an SAE. There are several Crossocheilus species and of those only C. siamensis and C. langei can be relied upon to be good algae eaters.

This is why the article on Fishalicious is valuable. She does a pretty good job of differentiating between the various Crossocheilus. So, caveat emptor!

Cheers, g*


----------



## Melitto (Dec 10, 2021)

I personally have a 250L tank fully planted Dutch style and I placed 10 sae in it from the beginning. The tank is more than a year old with several types of plants. 
In the tank I also have a few otos, around 10 Amano shrimps and a large number or red cherries as they keep multiplying. 
I have seen one or two leaves from my ludwigia repens been eaten half way during this time, but nothing much. The sae tend to nimble on my dwarf hair grass a lot and keep it constantly low in height. 
On my other tank which is 100L with rocks and wood I have 4 sae along side with a few otos and Amano. In that tank they have eating everything I try to grow, except from anubias and crypts. They devour my ludwigia repens, ludwigia super red, H-ra, stayrogen repens leaves, pogostemon erectus, everything. 
They are sae as you can see the black strip going in the middle of their back fins. So I believe that yes they will eat several of your plants especially if you don't feed them on a dialy basis. 
So it's not an easy decision to get them since it's not easy to take them out of a large tank with rocks, wood and plants. If you don't have bba I would say don't get sae. Get otos, get Amano shrimp. 
Good luck to all


----------



## jake37 (Mar 18, 2021)

deleted; noticed date of original posting more than 10 years old.


----------

