# Goin pressurized, not messin around...



## kineticcomfort (Aug 5, 2010)

Ok, I am runnin 5-6 bottles of CO2 on a 75, just did my taxes, I am an upholsterer/small business owner and new father, wanted to see how I would end up before blowing money on more any more "fish tank stuff" as my lady would say.

It came out better than expected so here it goes, I want a pressurized system than can deliver as much co2 as I wanna juice the tank with, I dont want to ever have to worry about leaks or mess with it, I want to set it up, plug it in and have that be that. also would like it to be easily adjustable since I am chaning out lights all the time and addin watts or takin some away.

this is what I would like to do, aquariumplants.com their own electronic regulator, with their 20lb tank and better seals and valves, everything from www.aquariumplants.com

I know its pricey and I could probably do for a decent amount less, but I want something very good, I have set up a ton of spray systems for spray adhesive and trying to get those to work consistently and without any leaks in the system, with anythng but a binks spray pot and good lines and gun, you were screwed almost anytime you wanted to use it, it had to be messed with, I do not want this happening with the CO2

encase the upholstery thing peaked anyones intrest this is my site www.kineticcomfortupholstery.com
all the work is pretty crazy custom vinyl with some leather and other thrown in.... its not fish but its my other hobby and it pays me more than sellin clippings out of the tank lol

and here it the tank its goin to be setup on









deos anyone have experince with their equipment???

also other coment or opinions are welcome, just remember, not all that worried bout gettin good deal on it, just don want leaks and want an easy low maintence system with easy adjustemnt


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## Ahura-sama (Sep 5, 2008)

Edit: Nvm....

$400....


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## bsmith (Dec 13, 2006)

First off I want to let you know that your tank looks AMAZING for using DIY co2, very impressive. 

Now to the meat and potatoes of the discussion. If you want a plug and play set up then I guess the apc.com deal is pretty straight forward. But, since you are a handy guy im going to lead you down a different path. One of better equipment, more simplicity, more time involved, more self self accomplishment and LESS MONEY!!!

You could build your own Dual stage regulator system for much less money and as I stated above have much better equipment that will require a bit more dialing in at first but after that its a set it and forget it deal. 

You can get a 20lb co2 tank from anywhere since you will probably just swap it out at your local airgas/ceekay or whatever pressurized gas company you choose just get the cheapest certified one you can find. Craigslist might be a good starting point but again there are tons of online retails that you could go through. 

Next is a regulator ($40-$100). There is quite a bit of debate between single stage regulators (SSR) and dual stage regulators (DSR), usually people with SSR's trying to say that what they have is good enough and blah, blah, blah, blah. There facts are the facts. You can purchase a used DSR that was more than likely used in a hospital as part of its O2 or other gas system that is being replaced due to a modernization of that system. No it will not come with a warranty but I have yet to find or hear of even one single person who bought a used DSR from a reputable retailer or another forum member that has had even the slightest issue. What a DSR will do for you is give you piece of mind that no matter what you will never have to worry about gassing your fish/other fauna when the tank is about to run out and that you know that you can run that tank till the very last drop of gas is out of it with out your bubble rate changing even the tiniest amount. Plus they look very pretty and can be had for half of what a brand new SSR cost. (im trying to link you with some threads over at the barr report but the server is not responding, whatever you do do not purchase anything until you read some of the info there) 

From the regulator you have the needle valve ($20-$100) there are quite a few models that you can get but this is not a place (IMO) to skimp. I have never had a substandard or even one of the commonly used cheaper ones. I have always been lucky enough to find good deals from members on swagelok's or the beautiful chrome plated Ideal model im currently using in another setup but that set me back about $130. This is what you use to precisely set your bubble rate and on a tank of your size you will want precise control and when you set it you will want it to stay where you put it. (will provide links when the site is up)

Now you have a bubble counter (free-$60). It does as its name suggests, allows you to see what the rate of co2 is your injecting into the tank in relation to bubbles. On one of my tank I have a DoAqua Music Counter which is an pretty piece of glass in line that set me back ~$35 shipped (twice because I broke the first one). On another tank I have a clear juice bottle that has a long piece of co2 tubing (pulled through the screw on cap) that comes from the NV that is submerged in water to allow the bubble to be formed then another tube (pulled through another hole I drilled in the cap) that comes about 1" into the container. I did this because it's at home so didn't need to be pretty, easy, very functional and free. You can go a lot of different ways on this one and I would be happy to talk you through it. 

Last is your diffuser/reactor/method to get co2 into the water of your tank (free in the form of using a canister filter-$200). This is another hotly debated piece of the co2 system and you have a lot of choices here too. On a tank that is the size of of yours I would have to say a reactor or some sort of misting by way of needle wheel pump would be the best. In the interest of getting this posted before you dump your load on the AP rig im going to post this no!


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## kineticcomfort (Aug 5, 2010)

hmmm, questions, solenoid, this is built in to the regulator in the regulator I was looking into in the AP model, and not something I saw in ur post

as I would want to do top shelf style equipment, lets say this would be the overall cost of just setup minus tank for what you proposed

$100 dsr
$100 needle vavle(less than the $130 you have paid on the one ur using currently)
$85 solenoid
$50 for bubble counter

now for the AP

all that is included on the one for $229 from AP

it has an electronic needle vavle that opens and closes for each bubble that has a led that lights up as each bubble is let out, so no bubble counter, and no additional needle valve needed, you can even adjust the height of the vavle as to adjust the size of the bubble, as this is electonic it only needs to be hooked up to a timer and does not need a solenoid

this would be about $100 less

to me this seems cheaper and foolproof

as far as quality I have yet to have anyone I've talked to try one...

the warranty and everything coming from the same place sounds great encase i run into any probs, I'm guessing their techs are very used to any and all problems u can run into with the system and its good for 3 years, I'm guessing long term, they are not as durrable as a put together system of top quality parts, however I would rather have my first CO2 system be easy and then on another try to do my own thing...

as for the bottle, is it not possible to just get one filled in the same tank? I would def like a good lookin bottle as I plan on having it exposed.. guess I should find out where I am gonna get it filled and ask them....

Thanks for the reply keep em coming.....


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## lanceduffy (Jul 15, 2010)

Electronic needle valve? 

I would need to read/hear a lot of good things from people who used them for a long time to ever think of buying an electronic needle valve like the one that you described. 

How does it work? I hope it isn't like a solenoid that opens and closes 1-5 times a second.

Oh, I almost forgot, nice tank.


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## kineticcomfort (Aug 5, 2010)

as far as I can tell, it is like a solenoid closing and opening for each individual bubble, sounds a little fishy lol pun intended

however I like all the parts being in one piece, makes it way less likely to develope leaks, which I dont know about co2 systems but presurized systems of anykind, leaks are a paiin the rear....

I havent heard of anyone using them yet either so if anyone knows of anyone using this regulator please speak up now....
: )


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## lanceduffy (Jul 15, 2010)

Well, good luck. Please let me know how that needle valve works out.


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## neilshieh (Jun 24, 2010)

you should really just buy separate parts and put them together, the money saved is worth it. or you can just troll over on APC or TPT to see if anybody is selling complete setups. that'd be very cheap and beneficial to your wallet. as for the co2 tank, just look on cl or go to airgas or local welding/fire extinguisher store.


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## bsmith (Dec 13, 2006)

Okay I found a few things for sale that you could use. Im not saying you have to buy these, just that they are quality parts and would last you a long time.

Here is a Swagelok needle valve. You would need to get the proper fittings to put it inline or you could attatch it to your regulator, whatever you want.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/swap-n-shop/133980-fs-swagelok-b-0rm2-needle-valve.html

Here are two regulators. I cannot tell if the Victor is a dual stage unit but I know that the Air Products one is for sure (the extra hump on the back side of the unit).

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/swap-n-shop/133953-fs-co2-regulators-plants-mosses-misc.html


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## kineticcomfort (Aug 5, 2010)

already ordered monday morning, total was $345 for complete system with 20 lb aluminum tank, this includes the equivelent of a tank with regulator, needle valve and bubble counter... also 2 perma seal and co2 resistant tubing and shipping, comes with 3 year warranty and its all from one place so they will be super familiar with any questions, should be here on thursday, hoping for the best

I will regularly update this thread to let people know of the quality of this product


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## bsmith (Dec 13, 2006)

Good luck.


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## kineticcomfort (Aug 5, 2010)

couldnt sleep and just spent the last 2 hours looking at forums and reviews, at least 90% had nothing but good things to say, only 2 negative comments on person had trouble and had to send it back twice but issue is now correct and has been running for a long time, other one said easy to break if you do something with a valve closed.

good things, way easier to use, way more consistent bubble counts

apparently older ones had some noise to them however this has been corrected with new style.

excited!


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## bsmith (Dec 13, 2006)

You will never have a more consistent bubble count then you will get with a quality needle valve. What if your power goes off?


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## Jim Miller (Feb 3, 2003)

bsmith: do you have hands on experience with the ap regulator?

what happens when the power goes off with a "normal" setup with a solenoid? especially if you have a reactor inline?


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## bsmith (Dec 13, 2006)

No experience with the AP product. With a normal solenoid, when the power goes off it closes. So you have no more gas flowing through the system.


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## bosmahe1 (May 14, 2005)

bsmith said:


> No experience with the AP product. With a normal solenoid, when the power goes off it closes. So you have no more gas flowing through the system.


I would imagine the the mouse solenoid inside the AP unit is normally closed as well so, the result would be the same.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/e...rking-aquariumplants-coms-electronic-co2.html


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## bsmith (Dec 13, 2006)

Maybe but you never know.


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## Jim Miller (Feb 3, 2003)

Since the AP website says treat it like a normal solenoid wrt to light timers it must be normally closed. 

Jim


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## kineticcomfort (Aug 5, 2010)

you set it to a timer to turn it off so if power goes off it closes, just recieve a PM from a member on here I asked about his regulator, he has had for a while, he is the only one with any negative experience that accually has one that I could find, his was fixed, has been running for a while and just bought another one : ) tomorrow mine should be here...


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## bosmahe1 (May 14, 2005)

Kinetic,

Keep us updated on how it works out for you. I would be interested to hear how those Mouse Solenoids hold up over time. Since they use very little power and probably dissipate very little heat, I wouldn't mind using them in my setup.


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## Reef2plants (Jan 24, 2011)

Im interested in hearing things as well. I have been eye balling that AP regulator for a while. I know a few reef keepers have used them with great success on their calcium reactors. Let us know what you learn!


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## wHeEzO (Feb 8, 2006)

Pressurized is the way to go... Took me a few months of DIY before finally forking up the cash. Haven't regretted it since, and my plants are happy.


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## kineticcomfort (Aug 5, 2010)

sorry I didnt update sooner,
here it goes,
ease of puttin together, my 22 MO son could have done it : )
I thought it could have been a little higher quality in the tank and pieces but I have nothing to compare it to

works great , super steady bubble count, thing I do not like is that the ceramic diec it goes through requires at least 9 psi to push anything out, however at 9 psi it lets out around 3 bubbles every time it opens and closes as wel as releasing around 1 bps just from residual pressue it the line, so I have mine set at opening once every 3 seconds and this gives me a 2bps count

everything still comes out in an even stream of bubbles out of the disc

I have to say I would buy it again, however I would get their entire package at $409 dollars that siaves sround $200 and you get everything you need including a ph monitor thing to keep the co2 controlled, I think this would work best that way

I have decided to also buy their co2 reactor, and I bought a high end Eheim that flows 330 GPH comes with spray bar, and will be plumibin this in using this filter

later on I will be adding a PH controller and probe holder they sell that plumbs into the reactor

I will keep on updating this post to tell you of their other products

also unrelated I bought a fluval 88g disposable co2 setup and an aqua medic m vival solenoid, to do a 5.5 gallon tank with I will update that on this thread as well, its an easy little setup, could be more cost effective, however with an intial investment of around $50 dolars and considering I am running it on way smaller of a tank than its supposedly for I think it was a gtood move and I like it

ran it on this tank for a couple days before setting up AP setup and am still usuing the bubble counter and ceramic disc on the 75 untill my new reactor comes in. 
pics later today..


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## kineticcomfort (Aug 5, 2010)

here are some quick shots of the 2 systems I got to go pressurized

the big setup again if you havent read thread is on a 75 and the bigger of the 2 fluval systems they sell with the disposable cartridges 88g I believe is on a nano I just setup, will have clown killis and pygmy corys trying to make look as large as possible in small tank...

one thing about the eletric regulator is that it is too close to bottle to be put on straight up...









here is the fluval, which although would be nice with even larger air cartridges is a very nice system...










here is a pick of nano, have baby tears on order for stem plant : )


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## kineticcomfort (Aug 5, 2010)

here are complete systems, including aquarium plants.com reactor plumbed into new filter, and aquamedic ventil m solenoid in the fluval system so it can be used on a timer..


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