# 10 gallon refugium - what plants?



## jschall (Apr 13, 2009)

I just built a 10 gallon refugium on my 100 gallon turtle and cichlid tank.
It's not yet lit, so I can go with any wattage of light.

I won't be able to inject CO2, since 110 gallons of water is probably going to be expensive to inject CO2 into. Maybe if I built a really efficient diffuser I could do it, but I don't like yeast generators (don't want alcohol in my water, don't want a big smelly bottle of yeast in the fishroom)

Water parameters:
pH 7.9
Hard to very hard
20-40ppm nitrates
Edit: inert substrate, 20grit silica sand

What's going to be easiest to grow in these conditions? Lighting can be anywhere from 10w to 40w cfl.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

If this is to pull nutrients out of the water column to aid in filtration, go with a couple large sword plants. They are nutrient hogs and you can let them grow with emersed leaves to get the CO2.

If you are looking for something more visually appealing (like having a scape next to the large tank), go with some moderte-light stem plants (Bacopa, Ludwigia, Rotala, Hygrophila ) and use the 40-watt lighting. Those plants will also utilize the excess nutrients/waste put off by the turtles and cichlids.

I have ver hard water and have not had problems with any of the plants I've mentioned except the more rare varieties.


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## jschall (Apr 13, 2009)

davemonkey said:


> If this is to pull nutrients out of the water column to aid in filtration, go with a couple large sword plants. They are nutrient hogs and you can let them grow with emersed leaves to get the CO2.
> 
> If you are looking for something more visually appealing (like having a scape next to the large tank), go with some moderte-light stem plants (Bacopa, Ludwigia, Rotala, Hygrophila ) and use the 40-watt lighting. Those plants will also utilize the excess nutrients/waste put off by the turtles and cichlids.
> 
> I have ver hard water and have not had problems with any of the plants I've mentioned except the more rare varieties.


What sort of sword? Won't 40w lighting create an algae explosion without any CO2?

What about a WC cattail? They seem to grow very quickly, and they can presumably thrive while submerged.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

jschall said:


> What sort of sword? Won't 40w lighting create an algae explosion without any CO2?
> 
> What about a WC cattail? They seem to grow very quickly, and they can presumably thrive while submerged.


Any sword will do (amazon, rubin, melon, ozelot) if you are looking for a large nutrient user. 40 watts on 10 gallons will only result in algae blooms if there are not enough plants in there to use the nutrients and the nutrient/plant/light balance gets out of whack. That would be about moderate lighting for a 10 gallon unless you are talking about t-5 bulbs....then it's very high intensity.

Injecting CO2 in the refugium would result in CO2 injected into the main tank? (I actually did not think about this. ) My recommendation would be to let the plants grow emersed so they get their CO2 form the air.

If you mean the common cattails that grow in ponds/ditches, they get VERY large/tall. I don't think a 10 gallon could house them unless you have plenty head-room for them.

-Dave


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## jschall (Apr 13, 2009)

davemonkey said:


> Any sword will do (amazon, rubin, melon, ozelot) if you are looking for a large nutrient user. 40 watts on 10 gallons will only result in algae blooms if there are not enough plants in there to use the nutrients and the nutrient/plant/light balance gets out of whack. That would be about moderate lighting for a 10 gallon unless you are talking about t-5 bulbs....then it's very high intensity.
> 
> Injecting CO2 in the refugium would result in CO2 injected into the main tank? (I actually did not think about this. ) My recommendation would be to let the plants grow emersed so they get their CO2 form the air.
> 
> ...


For lighting, I was thinking 2 of these: http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsU...379051/cl0/coralifeminicompactcolormaxlamp10w
or 2 of these: http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsU...996/cl0/coralifeminicompactcolormaxlamp20watt

Which would be better? Or would it be better to go with a single fluorescent tube (about 15w)?
As far as plants go, I'll just start buying some once I get lighting in. Probably go with a pretty large variety including anacharis, hornwort, swords, and hygrophilia unless you can think of any reason why any of those wouldn't grow in my tank.


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## jschall (Apr 13, 2009)

Went with 40w. I currently have a lot of hygrophilia and a big amazon sword in there. The amazon sword came with a bunch of runners that had little amazon swords growing on them so I planted those too.

Obviously the sword will totally outgrow the tank, what should I do about that? Cut one of those runners off, plant that, and feed the big plant to the turtles?

I'm going to play around with it, but it's very very hard to work with in it's current position. I need waders so I can stand in the turtle tank and work on it!


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## jschall (Apr 13, 2009)

More questions... Are there any good additives that I can put in my sand substrate that will enrich it? Would it be a good idea?
Are there any liquid ferts that are iron ONLY? I have some from hagen but it says it has nitrogen. I have nitrate problems already, what with a high wasteload tank and my tap water having at least 10ppm nitrate.
What's the cheapest way to get CO2 that doesn't involve a disgusting bottle of yeast in my room? How would I keep the pH up for the cichlids if I used CO2?
I only have about 40-50gph coming out of the PVC you see to the right in the picture below. Is there any necessity for more flow? Note that the water coming from that is "brand new" water from the 100 gallon tank below.

I would also guess that my tap water has plenty of iron in it, since it's well water and the soil around here is red. That's based on two assumptions, though: first, that red soil means iron oxide rich soil, and second, that the iron leaches into the water.

The lighting is a very pinkish purple color - are there any CFLs that aren't so pink? I can live with it, it's just a little bit weird.

Finally, how do I make it look good? It's obviously missing a lot of things. I guess I'll want a piece of driftwood, though I'm a little worried that it'll soften my water too much for the cichlids, so if there's any way to make it work with rock, that'd be cool. I think it also needs more plants, and a larger variety of plants.








Notes: The overflow tube isn't nearly that ugly in person. Those cords are now hidden. I'm going to paint the PVC black eventually, but it's not that visible in person. It's only lit on one side because I'm waiting on the second 20w bulb to come in.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

That's a great design you have there!

I would not worry about CO2 just yet. You'll just be putting CO2 into your main tank. FOr fertilizer, you can get Seachem's root tabs (don't know the exact name for them) or any other root tab fertilizer. Just push them about 1" into the substrate near the base of the plants.

As the swords grow larger, trim off the outer leaves to keep them sized-down. Eventually they will outgrow the tank; but, the bigger they are, the more water-cleaing they will do for your fish and turtles.

So, did you buy the tank with a hole drilled, or did you do that yourself? I hear it takes a great deal of precision.

-Dave


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## jschall (Apr 13, 2009)

davemonkey said:


> That's a great design you have there!
> 
> I would not worry about CO2 just yet. You'll just be putting CO2 into your main tank. FOr fertilizer, you can get Seachem's root tabs (don't know the exact name for them) or any other root tab fertilizer. Just push them about 1" into the substrate near the base of the plants.
> 
> ...


I had the tank drilled by a glass co. They broke the first one, and I bought another. They gave me $10 off the drilling because they broke one (normally $20), so I only lost $5 on that. Had it been a bigger tank, I would've been pretty screwed.

Anyway, I now have some rockwork, micro swords and anacharis in there as well. I'll feed the anacharis to the turtles as it grows. I still need the second bulb.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Emersed is the way to go, if you can. No worries about CO2, the plants get it from the air. 
I would have gone with a richer substrate to begin with, but fertilizer tabs can help, or re-do it and use Laterite under the sand.


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## jschall (Apr 13, 2009)

Diana K said:


> Emersed is the way to go, if you can. No worries about CO2, the plants get it from the air.
> I would have gone with a richer substrate to begin with, but fertilizer tabs can help, or re-do it and use Laterite under the sand.


Too late to go emersed.
I can change the substrate, but I don't want anything that will mess with my water parameters. I'd also prefer that the plants take nutrients out of the water, rather than out of the substrate.
Would laterite be able to change water parameters significantly enough to stress my cichlids?


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## jschall (Apr 13, 2009)

Here's the big question: in current conditions, with 40w of cfl light, without me adding any ferts or changing the substrate or adding CO2, are my plants going to die? Am I going to get a ton of algae? I'm trying to run the lights for 12 hours. My nitrates are at about 20-30, waste load is 2 6" turtles, 5 2-3" cichlids.


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