# Red Cherry Shrimp



## Vadimshevchuk (Jul 5, 2009)

Hey,
I have been talking to a person about setting up a shrimp tank and he told me that if i kept anubias and crypt they could harm my shrimp. Is this true? He said its from trimming the plants that they release some stuff and that is bad. I need to get this cleared up soon. thanks


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## Kova (Oct 21, 2009)

My frend told me that if you brok stalk of cryprocorina theat supstance in plant maybe harmful by cherry.


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## Vadimshevchuk (Jul 5, 2009)

thanks for reply. anyone else?


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## Thorald (Aug 8, 2009)

I also heard about the myth that anubias and crypts are bad for shrimps, but I could never find any proof about this.

Anubias and crypts are actually kept commonly in shrimp tanks.

People like to blame the dead of their shrimp to something. So when they do some tank maintenance and some of their shrimp start to die they go to a forum and someone mentions the anubias/crypts. Immediately those plants get the blame, but they ignore that they maybe did a water change or that something got released from the gravel when replanting. There are just to many variables.

I even had crystal red shrimp eating the leaves that were melting from my crypts, but that didn't kill them. What did kill them was a water change with bad water.


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## feiyang (Jan 27, 2007)

Wh replanting, ammonias in the substrate will be released and that is fatal to shrimps.

Cutting plant too much is not a good thing anyway.


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## Vadimshevchuk (Jul 5, 2009)

thanks os much! also would a aquaclear20 filter be good for a shrimp tank on a ten gallon?


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm sorry but I have to disagree here. I've got CRS and crypts in the same tank, there have been broken and decaying leaves at times, and there have not been deaths.

All plants will let off ammonia when decaying; that's why we try to use canister filters and good trimming. Algae capitalizes on NH4. This does not mean a toxic amount is released, this does not mean shrimp die because your plants decay. When plant trimmings/waste break down in the substrate, the nitrification process turns it to NO3 and the plants uptake it. It does not hang around as NH4, building up to toxic levels. If this were true, all of our fish tanks would have long term NH4 problems.

Whoever keeps starting these stupid shrimp rumors needs to stop. CSM+B does not contain too much copper, you don't NEED to add iodine, and crypts won't kill RCS unless you're trying to use a bundle of them to crush your shrimp. My tank is living proof of all of the above, and you'll find that a search through the EPA ECOTOX database dispels these myths about N. heteropoda (older studies will refer to it as denticulata or denticulata sinensis)

Please people, back easy facts; at least take the time to look up LC50's before making statements like this.

-Philosophos


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## Vadimshevchuk (Jul 5, 2009)

Thanks so much Philosophos. That cleared it up so much. Also whats your idea od the aqua clear 20 filter on a shrimp tank? It has 100 gph but i cant trun it dow nand it looks like a good filter.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

You should be able to turn down AQ's through an adjustment above the intake, unless that's missing on the 20 or they've changed in the few years since the last one I bought. Personally I wouldn't even bother turning it down though; my shrimp are fine at 500gph in a 28 gal.

One thing I would do is put a prefilter on that pump; find a way to hook it up to a breeder filter if you can. There's no sense in losing shrimplets to your impeller. You may want to look at using an airstone along side the HOB; any species that uses chemical respiration is going to appreciate high O2 saturation.

It's also worth noting that HOB filters are only recommended for non-co2 tanks. HOB's are going to take water from low down in your tank, and lay it out on the surface, which pretty much gasses off the CO2 on the spot. Air stones are even worse.

-Philosophos


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## Vadimshevchuk (Jul 5, 2009)

this is gonna be a very low tech for shrimp and moss and crypts and anubias and some ferns so im probably not gonna get a canister.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Go right ahead on the AQ then. The breeder filters sometimes fit right on the intake, and have an elbow attachment to stop them from pushing into the glass. Perfect for breeder tanks.

-Philosophos


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## Vadimshevchuk (Jul 5, 2009)

what do you mean by breeder filters?


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## Vadimshevchuk (Jul 5, 2009)

well im gonan order this since they are not availible localy and its as cheap as it gets with shipping. 20 dolalr shipped brand new is really good usually it cost only 24 without shipping.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

They're more commonly known as sponge filters:









Most people use air stones with them, some attach to HOB's instead.

-Philosophos


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## Vadimshevchuk (Jul 5, 2009)

o i know them as sponge filters but i really dont like the look of them. I would really go with the aquaclear instead. Also would i be able to grow dwarf sag in a a 10 gallon with 1.5epg t8 and eco complete or is that not enough? If not i will just put it in my 29 gallon with eco and 65w pc


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## Andy Ritter (Nov 26, 2008)

I don't know for certain, but it sure sounds to me like you got bogus information. I can say for certain that in my experience, there aren't any problems with RCS in a tank with Anubias and Crypts.

I have an old 20 gallon tank that I had just let sit for years (probably 4 to 5)with some Anubias barteri and Cryptocoryne wendtii in it. I had ignored it completely after the last fish had died, and had even unplugged the filters and heater. I just left the light on a timer and sometimes would top off the water, but otherwise did nothing to it. Amazingly, the plants didn't die. They didn't grow very well, and algae did, but the plants did survive.

Back in August, I decided to get it going again so I could let baby Bristlenose plecostomus grow up in it. I did almost a complete water change, cleaned off as much algae as I could, vacuumed the gravel, and removed a lot of the dead leaves and other plant matter. Right about the same time, I ordered some fish from Invertzfactory. When they arrived, I was welcomed by eleven RCS thrown in as a gift from those guys! I wasn't sure if they would survive in my 75 gallon display tank, so I decided to put them in the 20 with the baby plecos. Before long, I couldn't find very many of them. While trying to find them, I thought about pulling up on the filter basket in my AquaClear 150 (which is now called the 30). Unbelievably, I found about seven of the shrimp hanging out in the bottom of the filter, still alive! That means that after being sucked into the intake tube, they had to then go past the impeller before being shot out into the bottom of the filter. I doubt that I could survive something like this if I was their size, so I'd say that they are some pretty tough critters. I then dumped them back into the tank and put the sponge pre-filter from a Penguin Reverse Flow Kit over the intake tube with a plastic stopper into the other open end. Here's what I'm talking about: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579+4635&pcatid=4635# It's been working great, and now I'll even see the shrimp walking around on it without any trouble, yet it doesn't seem to have slowed down the flow that I can tell. By the way, it's rated for 150 gph and has been fine. In fact, I also have a Penguin 550 (145 gph) powerhead along with a Hagen Quickfilter (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4586+4638&pcatid=4638), and again, haven't had any issues. It makes for a lot of flow, but I kind of think the shrimp might even like swimming in the current :noidea:.

Apparently the shrimp weren't too phased by the trauma of this situation, because before long I had saddled and then berried females, and now have many many shrimplets \\/.

Here are some pictures of my setup.

The entire tank:









The left side:









The right side:









Two shrimps on the wood:









Three shrimps on a rock and Anubias leaf:









I hope that this helps you out and eases some of your concerns.

Andy


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## Andy Ritter (Nov 26, 2008)

I also took a picture of some of them feeding, but I was only able to upload five photos at a time. Here's about a dozen of them feeding on a couple of shrimp pellets. Please keep in mind that this is my first attempt to take pictures of these little guys and the photos didn't turn out all that great.









Andy


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

The idea is that you can use both; you can attach the smallest sponge filter to your aquaclear, and that will save the shrimplets from being sucked through the impeller and chopped up. I've lost entire spawns of fish to impellers; if you don't use a sponge filter, at least attach fine nylon mesh to the intake.

Dwarf sag isn't something I've bothered with. I believe it's fairly easy to keep though, and prefers harder water.

-Philosophos


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## Vadimshevchuk (Jul 5, 2009)

thanks so much, also another reason why i dont want the sponge filter is because the tank is in my room and i dont really wanna hear bubbles at night when im trying to sleep. (wow that cool to get 11 extra)


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## Vadimshevchuk (Jul 5, 2009)

thats good since my water is very hard. ph from tap is 7.6 and kg and gh are really high


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

You may want to check out the egg viability on RCS with hard water. I know a lot of places aim for about 7pH with softer water; ADA AAS is popular for achieving this.

-Philosophos


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## Vadimshevchuk (Jul 5, 2009)

i really dont wanna pay 40 bucks for a bag of this for just a low tech tank since im trally trying to focus on my 29 gallon more. I just put some peat moss in the filter. Where do you buy that sponge thingy? Thanks so much everyone! This cleared up alot of questions. Also Philosophs, my shrimp wont reed as good in hard water or what?


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

The shrimp will probably still breed, I just don't think the eggs will be viable. I might be wrong; check around with what other people have done.You could try separating out females with saddles showing and developed eggs into a plastic container with an air stone for hatching/raising. Just use a little RO water with some trace and GH added back in, or use a 75% RO blend.

Despite not being so big on the ADA product line in general because it's grossly over-priced, ADA AAS I has done more for my tanks than anything outside of fertilizer/CO2. It's great stuff, with a few issues like clouding and tannin staining on occasion. If you haven't tried it, you should at some point; it's easily the best commercial substrate out there.

For the sponge filters, just look around at the nearest LFS; they should have them. Most web sites that sell a broad range of hobby-related equipment should as well.

-Philosophos


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## Vadimshevchuk (Jul 5, 2009)

Will the peat moss help or no?


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## Vadimshevchuk (Jul 5, 2009)

also im going with eco complete in the tank and eco contains cooper, isnt this bad?


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Peat moss will help, but it'll turn your water tea colored. If you use enough in the HOB and/or in a dusting underneath the EC, you might be able to push it down far enough.

First off, eco-complete offers just about nothing that's bioavailable to plants outside of iron, and most of it won't leech into your water much either. It's really just a nice rooting substrate for consistency for the most part.

When ever someone talks about copper and shrimp, be skeptical. People say all kinds of things and have never bothered to check the toxicity levels for the species they're keeping. The EPA ecotox database will give you plenty if you look around for neocaridina LC50's. There are other studies that will talk about it as well. You have more to fear from your tap water and most ich medications than you do from anything else used commonly within the hobby.

-Philosophos


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## Vadimshevchuk (Jul 5, 2009)

Do you use peat moss in any of your tanks?
Also i'm gonna use a lot of driftwood in that tank to make the water softer. Would that be okay and rise my ph atleast to 7 with dw and peat moss?
Any other ways to get my ph down. Thanks so much =D


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

I don't use it right now, but I used to use it a lot. I used to pre-soak my WC water with peat for days and run it through filters just to get the acids without so much tannin staining. It dropped my 7.6-ish pH down to 7.2. You could probably push it farther if you toss a nylon bag of peat into your filter.

Now I use ADA AS and compressed CO2; everything sits around 6.5pH.

Other methods include using RO water, various acids and DIY CO2.

You could use peatmoss and driftwood to get below 7 if you stick peat under your substrate; read on how to do it properly though. With peat in the filter and driftwood, you should be able to get around 7pH; use 50% RO if you're having a hard time with it.

-Philosophos


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## Vadimshevchuk (Jul 5, 2009)

Thanks so much! im ordering my aquaclear 20 tonight. Never had any experience with them so im excited. Diffrent about this 10 gallon is that im taking my time and researching so nothing bad happens. Unlike my 29 gallon =/


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## James He (Aug 24, 2009)

RCS is doing fine with hard water. I heard people with PH 8.0 has success breeding RCS.

FYI, I use AquaClear50 with home made pre-filter for 10G tank. Water is crystal clear.


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