# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Baking soda a bad choice?



## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

This was brought up in another forum and I was wondering if anyone had an answer.


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> Hi
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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

This was brought up in another forum and I was wondering if anyone had an answer.


> quote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> ...


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

It sounds like Sera is trying to sell a buffering product.

Baking soda works just fine for raising KH. It doesn't fix the pH at a particular value, which I think is what the quote from Sera is talking about.

If I were to complain about any feature of baking soda I would complain about its sodium content.


Roger Miller


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

I have gone away from baking soda to increase the kH as I have found the effects to be very short term. I now use calcium carbonate which works much better. And it doesn't have as heavy as a pH hit as the baking soda.

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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

So now I am confused, and can't research because I have finals. So I'll ask, would buying Kent botanica KH+ be a substitute for KH additives where I wouldn't have to worry about the Ph (Does Seachem have a similiar product)? I've always had my Kh at 6 and enough Co2 from my regulator to get the ph to 6.8. I kinda understand how using baking soda reacts with Co2 to bring KH back down again. If I use Kents KH+, do I treat the Co2/Ph/Kh tables like a did when I was using my tap water. The ingredients in there product are.
Ingredients: Deionized water, carbonic acid salts (What is this?), sulfate salts.

Rex, from what I've read calcium carbonate is not very soluble and also effects my GH which I am already reconstituting with addition of mg/ca which I like because I have complete control over those ratios. Short term do you mean less than a week? Because I am diligent with my water changes every week.


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

"carbonic acid salts" would probably be (e.g.) baking soda. There might be some potassium bicarb involved, and maybe even some fancier things. I don't know what the sulfate salts are there for.

Roger Miller


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

I took this posting to be opposite of what rex said, that baking soda is only short term (article states that it is only temporary when you boil the water or when you have plants like Vals). I guess I will start testing my KH through the week to see what happens,



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> Allen wrote:
> > Hardly. Carbonate=Carbon=basic building block for organic life forms. (it
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## wetmanNY (Feb 1, 2003)

Which one of Sera's websites would have the misstatement of fact "Baking Soda does not have a buffering agent to help stabilize the pH?" Merely to call sodium bicarbonate by its name is to understand that it is part of the carbonate buffer. Propaganda 101 teaches us that disinformation is always more effective when it is immediately followed by a factually correct statement, viz: "If you were to add Baking Soda to the water, the pH would increase, and then fall again later." Very clever.

If Kent "Botanica KH+" contains "carbonic acid salts" that is merely a way of describing a carbonate, at the same time disguising which cation is involved. Sodium bicarbonate is a "carbonic acid salt" is it not? Very clever. And the "Botanica" lends an aura of herbal naturalness, too. Cute.

Apparently these ploys are successful.


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Bicarbonate in solution is bicarbonate in solution. It makes no difference whether the counter ion is sodium (as in baking soda) or calcium.

Their is some difference between baking soda and calcium carbonate in the way they are dosed and enter solution.

Baking soda is readily dissolved. You just mix and go. Aquariums are subject a couple acidifying effects. Nitrification of ammonium is the principle one. Over time the acidification tends to reduce the bicarb level and the tank becomes gradually more acidic. Normally you don't notice the acidifying effect unless your alkalinity is low and you like to go long periods between water changes. Maybe that was what Sera's web page was talking about when they said that the pH effect from baking soda is only temporary.

Calcium carbonate is not as soluble and people tend to keep it in their filters, or add it to the tank where it takes a long time to dissolve. The undissolved calcium carbonate always offers a reserve of bicarb that goes into solution to offset the normal acidifying effects in an aquarium. If you take the calcium carbonate reserve out of the tank, then the bicarbonate that is already in solution will act exactly like the bicarbonate from baking soda.

Sera's statement that baking soda "does not have a buffering agent" is a partial "Big Lie" not a whole one. As wetmanNY said, bicarbonate is *part* of the carbonate buffer. It isn't the whole buffer. The rest of the buffer is provided by CO2, which is variable. The pH varies up and down as the CO2 varies down and up.

My guess is that Sera is selling a buffer product that contains both halves of the buffer system and fixes the pH at a predefined point. Hence their rather weird slant on the issue.


Roger Miller


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Hello Greg,
> Thanks for your inquiry. Baking soda, which is sodium bicarbonate, is not an ineffective means to increase the alkalinity of the water, however the degree of effectiveness is dependant upon the purity of the sodium bicarbonate used, and whether or not the baking soda contains other ingredients as cheaper fillers. I would put forth that to say that quality sodium bicarbonate will do as good a job, if not better, at buffering than any other substance available to hobbyists, and the length of time it takes to dramatically decrease the alkalinity provided by sodium bicarbonate is no shorter than any other buffer; the rate of addition/production of acids in the water will deplete alkalinity, thereby decreasing the stability of pH. Once the alkalinity reaches some critical value, or threshold, pH will become very unstable and has a tendency to drop (become more acidic) quite rapidly with the addition of weak acids in small amounts.
> ...


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## wetmanNY (Feb 1, 2003)

The corporate spokesman can't come out and say so, but is there any doubt that Kent Marine's KH+ is actually just sodium bicarbonate? Bicarb under any label is a perfectly effective means of increasing alkalinity. The spokesman suggests that the effectiveness is dependant upon the purity of the sodium bicarbonate used, and one's natural question, whether or not the baking soda in Kent Marine's KH+ contains other ingredients as cheaper fillers, is not one that they are prepared to discuss at this time. It's all fine, one carbonate being very much like another carbonate, save for which cation gets introduced into the water (sodium or calcium) and its degree of solubility. Biogenic acids then have the same effect on the same degree of alkalinity.

All that being said, Kent Marine KH+ will increase the alkalinity in the aquarium-- just like Arm & Hammer-- and will maintain it, with regular use.

Calcium carbonate, being less soluble, expends its buffering bit by bit, not all at once. There's an extra measure of stability.

The spokesman should be working for the Papal Curia!

[This message was edited by wetmanNY on Wed May 14 2003 at 07:52 PM.]


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## electro (May 31, 2003)

In my particular setup, I also have African cichlids, so I adjust my water slightly to increase hardness and alkalinity. Out of the tap, the PH is 7.4 and the KH is about 5-6. I just use plain ol' baking soda to increase my KH level to 12 and the PH level stays rock solid at 8.2, zero fluctuations. I usually perform water changes weekly, occasionly on bi-weekly intervals, and my levels stay constant regardless. I realize that not everyone here necessarily uses these same water conditions, but baking soda raises my PH and KH and keeps it very stable. A good buffer in my particular case and experience.

[This message was edited by electro on Sat June 07 2003 at 06:35 PM.]


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## wetmanNY (Feb 1, 2003)

There ya go! In a Rift Lake setup such as electro's, with high total dissolved solids and (few? no?) plants, a rock-solid pH is a virtue. In a planted setup, there's no value in adding any more carbonate beyond the minimum that's absolutely required to stabilize pH. Carbon is more bio-available as carbonic acid from dissolved CO2, than it is in the form of carbonates.


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