# Where have the leaders gone?



## digital_gods

Ok, summer is over and it's time to get the club back rolling again. Tex Gal has brought up the fact to have a meeting in mid October but I yet to hear any confirmations of a time/date/place. I keep waiting for the activity level to pickup to start referring people over to our club for not wanting to loose them from lack of activity. I yet to see it picking up. I under summertime gets slow from people taking vacations but summertime is over. I enjoyed attending my first meeting at Tex Gal's house back in August. Time August meeting rolled around, September meeting details should have been set and October meeting details in the final stages. I understand people get busy with their families, careers, etc. but you choose to take on the responsibilities of being the leaders of our club. If you no longer feel like you can handle the burden and responsibilities of being leaders in our club, then step down. Let us elect people into position who can handle the duties of being leaders of our club and drive us forward into a thriving club.


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## fishyjoe24

I think it just that niko is busy, and tex gal is going out of town.
no one wants to set a date... what about just getting to together for a dinner some where... what ever happen to having the meeting at the fish gallery? if I had the space I would let people come over.


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## digital_gods

fishyjoe24 said:


> I think it just that niko is busy, and tex gal is going out of town.


 It's not Tex Gals responsibility to coordinate everything. So it shouldn't matter if she is out of town or not. Their is other officers within this club that can help. I yet to hear anyone of them sound off like they got a pair.


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## ocelli

I am ready to meet some more of the club members, Lets get together. Meeting at the fish gallery sounds fun.


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## MacFan

The club is pretty casual. You are welcome to plan a meeting and advertise it here. People will come.


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## Tex Gal

I'm out of town and just checked into the forum. I'm not a leader but a member like everyone else. I really don't know who are all the official members. Niko is the president, I think. He's in the throws of a new business so is probably really pushed for time. I'll be back in town on Sunday. Niko will be posting in today sometime. We will get this going again. Don't get discouraged


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## Michael

I've belonged to MANY volunteer organizations. As MacFan suggests, anyone who can organize or host a meeting should just go ahead and announce it. I really liked the idea of the Fish Gallery meeting, or any other place where we can see more planted tanks!

--Michael


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## fishyjoe24

there is a some what of a meeting saturday, it's in my car it's a drive down to mudboots house to get the fish and plants he is doing a RAOK. then I can split the plants up on who wants what.

what about a weekend dinner, the fish gallery, or dallas world aquarium?


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## snowball2020

Dallas world aquarium is pretty expensive at $25/person, I'm speaking for you here Joey. lol... I think when I'm not pushed to study for a test, I can probably kick my parents out for a few hours and have some people over. I'm about to set up my 120g so yall can help me with that! lol.


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## fishyjoe24

snowball2020 said:


> Dallas world aquarium is pretty expensive at $25/person, I'm speaking for you here Joey. lol... I think when I'm not pushed to study for a test, I can probably kick my parents out for a few hours and have some people over. I'm about to set up my 120g so yall can help me with that! lol.


it was just an ideal... have you desided on keeping the stand, or making a new one?
next question, who has the space to host 20-35+ people?


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## digital_gods

Can anyone tell me what the membership fee we have paid is actually used for?


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## Michael

Web sites are not free, and the club has a very nice one that uses a lot of band width.


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## digital_gods

The domain is register through GoDaddy. Renewal fee: $15 per year.
Hosting: Liquidweb.com - $15 per month = 180 per year.
Total: $195.00 per year = 10 (9.75) members full yearly membership($20ea). 

I'm sure we have more than 10 members in our club.


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## fishyjoe24

so a horse walks in to a bar and the bar tender says why the long face..

I'm not sure but I would like a meeting too.


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## CrownMan

I'm not a leader but I have hosted several get togethers in the past at my place in southwest Arlington and would be willing to do it again. I haven't seen many of the old guard members on the board lately but I've met a few of the new ones by posting free plants, endlers, cherry shrimp and guppies this year. We've also lost a few good members who've moved away. I've got a very busy schedule at work but can host on October 9th or 10th. I have a new 40 gallon breeder that I want to landscape with plants from 6 or 7 of my other tanks. It will probably be a CO2 setup but I'm not sure. We'll take a vote which way to go after reviewing my other 40G setups where only 1 has co2. It also depends on the scapes. I plan on tearing down 3 smaller tanks prior to the meeting.

Let me know. Last meeting, I didn't see any one post the details on the DFWAPC web site. Is that still up and running and can anyone setup meeting announcements there through the email response system?


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## digital_gods

@Crownman: Mike, good to see you online. You've been very good at help get us new members started with CRS and more clippings. We thank you.

@DFWAPC: From our out of date website, it shows that we have a structured leaders within our club. So where are they? Why won't that thank charge on planning. I know this is a volunteer organization. I have no problems with getting things organized and setup. I am a very busy person but I have no problems with making/finding time to get things happening. My problem is I refuse to put energy/efforts into getting things organized and setup if they are going to get shot down. I have pm Niko and other members with multiple ideas but yet to see anything rolling. This organization has fallen apart like our national economy. We have the potential to be a great club again but it will not happen with the current path of lack of leadership. It's time for a change. This is a democratic organization that is for the aquatic people by the aquatic people. I feel its time to call for a change of administration and elect new club officers. Niko may have been the founder of the organization but the lack of leadership deems him unfit for the position of the organization's president. *I want to nominate Tex Gal (Drenda) to be on the ballot as presidential candidate in DFWAPC.*


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## fishyjoe24

ANARCHY ANARCHY, :smile: one who has the house space?
I've got the space but no where to put the dogs or the parents.
we need to get something rolling... what ever happened to the fish gallery ideal? 

here is my ideal.

he have a october meeting at the fish gallery.
mike (crownman) said he had a 55g tank, and a t5 no light fixture with a bad ballast. one of use could get the tank clean it out, fix the light fixture. pitch in money for would to build a stand, then we go to macfan's place and build the stand... that only leaves us with having to find a filter, then we set up the tank at the fish gallery and have a meeting...

just hanging out is fine with me too.


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## CrownMan

Fish Gallery would be good for me. I might be able to scrounge up an old eheim 2213 to donate. And a bucket of old flourite.


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## davemonkey

Hey guys and gals, sorry if I'm intruding, but I've been following this thread and it sounding kinda familiar to what NASH went through awhile back (even before I moved to Houston). Founders start clubs for reasons, and officers take charge for a reason. But, eventually, those initial folks get busy living the other parts of their lives and no longer have time to devote like they had before. So, you get to where DFWAPC seems to be right now.

Right now is probably a great time for members of the club to take a serious look at how much time they'd be willing to devote and nominate themselves for leadership roles (or give some encouragement to someone who you'd like to see "in charge" ). 

What digital_gods is proposing can be good for the club as long as there are at least 2-3 people willing to take on the leadership roles. Otherwise, you end up with 1 person running the group, and they'll eventually get burned out having to bear all the responsibility. This is especially critical when deciding how to spend the club's dues. It is no easy task arranging speakers, contests, prizes, field trips, group orders for supplies/literature/etc... when several people want to give their opinions but leave all the "work" on the shoulders of the 1 person who happens to be in charge.

In the meantime, while people take an opportunity to evaluate what role they want to play in DFWAPC, the best thing a club can do is just what you all seem to be pushing for...get together wherever you all can meet up and swap plants, ideas, etc... and have fun.


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## Michael

Davemonkey, truer words were never spoken. These melt-downs occur in all volunteer organizations. The solution is not to get angry and start a new club. The solution is for the people with time and energy to take charge. Unfortunately, I am over-committed already with membership in three other volunteer groups.

My advice: keep it simple. Crownman offered to host a meeting at his place. This is the easiest thing to do--no coordination with Fish Gallery, no moving tanks, equipment, and livestock all over DFW. What people really want is to meet each other face-to-face, talk about and look at planted aquaria, and trade plants. Minimal structure and planning will be enough.

I would love to see Crownman's set-ups. I suggest October 10. Joe will be back from Nacogdoches, and can tell us about his trip. If people want anything to eat or drink, they can bring it themselves.

Just do it!


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## digital_gods

@Davemoney: You nailed it square on.

@DFWAPC:The active rolls I can play is webmaster and coordinating arrangements. I cannot host any meetings at my place. My house is too small for our group. *How about everyone post what they can and cannot do for our club.*


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## digital_gods

How about we start building some ground for consistency with setting a monthly meeting for every second Sunday afternoon or something to that nature. The locations may very but the time/day would stay the same unless outing planned for that day. Just a thought. I'm not coping an attitude about our club, but instead apply enough pressure to get people thinking and tanking. Trying to get people motivated to stand up and make a difference with helping in DFWAPC.


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## fishyjoe24

I'm CAN meet people to trade/swap, or give plants to others members. I can help with tanks,and help build simple stands.

I can't host, as I don't have the space.

I can mod the dfwapc board.


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## Cocobid

Have attended many a meeting and met some good friends through meetings. Monthly meetings are great...but for so many this is a hard one. 

Has anyone pondered quarterly meetings?? 
If something special pops up and an unscheduled meeting can be arranged for something special ..... great. Just a thought!!! 
We trade our goodies and enjoy sharing pearls of wisdom~~~


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## Michael

Since email notification is not working through the club web site, make a decision about a meeting time and place. Then post it here, on DFW Fish Box, and email announcements to anyone who may be interested with the request that they forward to anyone they know who would be interested.

It's not perfect, but it will get to most people.

Sheesh! When did I become a "Senior Member"?


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## fishyjoe24

Michael said:


> Since email notification is not working through the club web site, make a decision about a meeting time and place. Then post it here, on DFW Fish Box, and email announcements to anyone who may be interested with the request that they forward to anyone they know who would be interested.
> 
> It's not perfect, but it will get to most people.
> 
> Sheesh! When did I become a "Senior Member"?


I think that you become a "senior" when your post count gets to a certin number.
some one just post a date,I want to get out the house....


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## digital_gods

We are but a flock of sheep with out a Sheppard.


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## fishyjoe24

well then where's the chickens. chicken it just taste so good.
I'll hang out, why does it just have to be about plants and fish.
what about a dinner, or just being getting together at dave and busters ?


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## niko

Ah well well!

We all know that it's very easy to pick up the club meetings again. I was hoping that Mike (CrownMan) could host this October because I understand there are quite a few new people that need not only to get good advice but also to see great planted tanks. And Mike is just about perfect because he makes everything look so easy. Then the new folk could be introduced to the MacFan aquarium lifestyle maybe 

Here's the thread about the Oct. meeting so it's easily visible:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...club/73845-dfwapc-october-meeting-2010-a.html

--Nikolay


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## Tex Gal

We need to reorganize. I think once we all meet we can get some help and things will be off and running again. This thread sounds like everyone is desperate but I think people are doing stuff behind the scenes. We need to re-elect some positions were the people are just plain gone. I don't think we need to dis anybody. This next meeting is a time when everyone can talk about this and get things back on track.


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## digital_gods

You are absolutely right. I'm working with Niko on the website and helping him to orginizine the meetings.


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## snowball2020

is it just me or the website isn't really a "website" nothing on there really provide much infos or activities of the site. seems like a pretty plain website to me...


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## Tex Guy

digital_gods said:


> I yet to hear anyone of them sound off like they got a pair.


Got a pair? Really? This is just an aquatic plant club, not the WWF. Maybe you should cut back on the caffeine.


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## digital_gods

Tex Guy said:


> Got a pair? Really? This is just an aquatic plant club, not the WWF. Maybe you should cut back on the caffeine.


I can't remember how many cups of coffee I had that day. At least I didn't go off with any "Full Metal Jacket" quotes.


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## fishyjoe24

come on every one take your medication... what thrown off side ways stuff am I reading? this club is going to go down hill.
where are the crazy liberals? we need more of the liberals.


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## Tex Guy

fishyjoe24 said:


> this club is going to go down hill.


Joey, implicit in this statement is presumably an observation over time that things were good and now they aren't. You have been to two meetings. I don't know how you have any basis for making this observation.

By the way, unless something has changed very recently, you haven't yet actually joined or paid any dues. If that is still true, why do you even have an opinion?


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## HeyPK

I am putting in a request here that members of DFWAPC continue these discussions about the direction the club should go somewhere else other than on APC. I am just a moderator here, but it seems to me that the discussions are getting heated and people are starting to get personal and that the meaningful arguments have all been aired. I know you all have to work out your differences, but could you all please agree to do it by way of emails or thrash it out in a meeting? 

Thanks, 

Paul K.


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## niko

It is in the club's best interest to keep things non-confrontational.

We do have to discuss the new ideas. But we must not let this turn into an unpleasant experience.

APC will shut down our confrontational threads anyway. 

Let's keep all discussions reasonable and with the club's wellbeing in mind.

--Nikolay


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## fishyjoe24

Tex Guy said:


> Joey, implicit in this statement is presumably an observation over time that things were good and now they aren't. You have been to two meetings. I don't know how you have any basis for making this observation.By the way, unless something has changed very recently, you haven't yet actually joined or paid any dues. If that is still true, why do you even have an opinion?


why?.......... an opinion, that's what I believe it is just an opinion.... just voicing my opinion..yes in my opinion I DO BELIEVE THE CLUB WILL GO DOWN HILL, with all the keyboard wars,petty bittierness BS etc, I feel people will read it ,and see that there is drama in the club and it will turn them away from the club. yes it is true, I haven't paid my fees. I've been limited on cash lately... but I'm working on paying the fees..

everyone can we keep this civil. it's not helping me at all or the club it just revs up my mania(bipolar disorder), and leads to nothing solved. I've gotten lightly maniacal from this clubs discussion and turned in to a Jerk when there is no reason for me to do that... I've walked away from the computer a few times, and had to edit my post a few times... is there way way this can be taken to a emailer, so it goes to are emails and not on the dfwapc part of this site?

I'm sorry for being a a-hole, I'm calm down again.

I think everyone is just stressed, and we all need to step away, and talk about this like adults at the nov. meeting.


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## bigstick120

fishyjoe24 said:


> SO I GUESS IT TAKES NOTHING TO PULL SOMETHING OUT OF THE REAR OR IT TAKES MONEY TO HAVE AN IDEAL OR PUT OUT A THOUGHT... BECAUSE I GOT A MIND SO I WILL USE IT, AND I'VE BEEN READING THIS BOARD SEEN THE FIRST DAY I SIGNED UP ON APC.
> 
> yes it is a observation, just look at all the people that are in the club, or wanting to be in the club, or are popping up out of no where, or questioning the direction of the club.. what are people going to do just sit there or are they going to stand up and say something. my guess is the ones with the brains will stand up and speak there mind......


I dont even understand what you wrote, but it doesnt sound nice with you pulling stuff out of your rear. Paul gave sound advice above.

Clubs are only successful when new folks step up to take the reins. When a few people are left to do all the work is when they fail. People bet burned out, busy with family, work, life and dont have time for their hobbies. If you dont like it, then do something about it. Step up and join the board of directors or however you club is arranged. Sounding off on a public forum wont get you much.


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## digital_gods

It's getting*HOT* in here! No Flaming please.:flame:

I'm very glad now to see people are speaking up and questions are being answered. Let's move our attention over planning our November meeting. I yet to hear if anyone is will to host the meeting. Any new people want to host it? You don't have to have prize winning tanks to host us. Just an idea, what if we have an Extreme Makeover of someone's tank as a meeting topic. I'll post more over on the November meeting string.


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## fishyjoe24

sounds like a good ideal to me. my tank could use a over all. maybe how to set up a planted tank for angels or discus.


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## bookpage

digital_gods said:


> The domain is register through GoDaddy. Renewal fee: $15 per year.
> Hosting: Liquidweb.com - $15 per month = 180 per year.
> Total: $195.00 per year = 10 (9.75) members full yearly membership($20ea).


I can host the website for $100.00 per year. I can also do changes and updates to it.

http://wacowebdesigns.com

I joined the club, but have not heard from anyone. Was just told about this site this week.


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## Tex Gal

Bookpage, make sure you see the thread about the November meeting. Bring your ideas. Hope to see you there!


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## fishyjoe24

I don't want to stir the pot but I remember robert saying he could put it on his server/domain and host it for FREE!.


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## HeyPK

Clubs seem to go through cycles, and often, they die. I presided over the death of a photography club in Milwaukee when nobody else wanted to organize things. I struggled to come up with programs and activities, but I soon ran out of ideas and energy, and it died, as it had to do. I was in a tropical fish club here in Jackson, MS, but, after a few years, it died, too. I have a theory that clubs start out being informal and having only minor organizational responsibilities. They grow and get ambitious and increase the number of activities, and then they often hit a crisis point when there is too much to do and too few people willing to do it. 

I think the clubs that don't have this kind of crisis have strong leaders who have the time or energy to stick with it for a decade or more. Somehow, they find replacement people for themselves or people for additional positions who also have this long term commitment. I also think that these people are careful not to overload themselves or to try to do the impossible. Also, somehow, the leaders get a routine going that never gets old---annual shows, plant points competitions, auctions, possibly a publication. They don't rely too much on speakers, especially not on speakers from their own membership because you can run through all of them after a while, and then there is nowhere to go. AGA is an excellent example of a successful, long-lived club. Another very impressive organization is the American Killifish Association. 

Best of luck to DFWAPC! Hope you can find the right people (I know they are out there!) and the right mix of activities.


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## digital_gods

@Bookpage: Welcome to the club! I'm in Cleburne. If you ever want to car pool to the next meeting, just let me know.


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## Tex Gal

HeyPK j- great post!! Exactly!!


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## bookpage

digital_gods said:


> @Bookpage: Welcome to the club! I'm in Cleburne. If you ever want to car pool to the next meeting, just let me know.


I might take you up on that offer.


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