# Recommended Phosphate levels for NPT



## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

What should the phosphate levels be in a NPT? What would be considered as too high or too low? I'm going to get some of my tank water tested probably this weekend and that's one of the things I'm going to check for.

Thanks.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

In the Fertilizing forum check out the sticky thread "Estimative Index Dosing Guide". It'll get you started off on the right foot, but Phosphate seems like it'd be at sufficient levels via feeding, or perhaps overfeeding if your fish load is light. Anyway, it's a great read for giving very generalized ideas of your fert levels if you choose to dose. 

Once you get a handle on what you want your levels to be at you can go into the Fertilator link in the gold bar above and figure out exactly how much of what to dose.

But in the long run, if you are consistent, the tank will reach equilibrium with whatever you're doing (basically that system goes through its own selection of sorts for dominant plants...and the ones suited to how you manage the tank are the ones that stay around by default).


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Thanks mudboots. 

The reason I ask about this is because I have some staghorn algae in my betta's tank and I know that can appear when there isn't enough of the macro nutrients and I'm suspecting that phosphates is the culprit because since I only have a betta in the tank(as well as some snails), I think the phosphate levels might be low because he doesn't produce a lot of waste and I can't overfeed him because he would make a pig of himself. My snails don't even produce much waste either. I don't recall ever seeing staghorn algae in my guppy tank both the one I have now and the 10g I had several months ago because I was always able to add extra food knowing that the guppies wouldn't eat like piggies.

I've considered getting some potassium phosphate for the tank and dose it once every two weeks to see if it clears up the algae. How does that sound? Once the phosphate levels are where they should be, I'd most likely stop the fertilizers and add some crushed flakes to the tank at night to try to maintain those levels.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

In the references I have seen optimum phosphate levels seem to be around 1-2 ppm. 
When you add fish food and call it fertilizer you are adding a lot of other things. 
When you add a simple fertilizer you know exactly how much of that fertilizer you are adding.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Diana K said:


> In the references I have seen optimum phosphate levels seem to be around 1-2 ppm.
> When you add fish food and call it fertilizer you are adding a lot of other things.
> When you add a simple fertilizer you know exactly how much of that fertilizer you are adding.


I'll get some of my water tested then. I feed my Max Bio-Gold pellets so there is never any left over. Even if I fed him flakes, it would be the same thing because anyone who has owned bettas before knows that they leave no food behind. lol

I know I could add crushed flakes from now on at nighttime so Max won't hunt for it but I think it would take too long to get the levels up to where they should be so I'll probably get some fertilizers then go from there... once I get the water tested, that is.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Fish waste, both the ammonia from their gills and the poop is all fertilizer to the plants. 

If the food has too little phosphate, and the fish needs it all, then there is not much going to become fertilizer. 

But if the food has enough of all the things the fish needs then he will excrete the excess. Some of this goes through a complex cycle, like building new tissues, and tearing down old tissues, and this creates waste. Other wastes are more direct. Stuff that is in the food but the fish cannot digest it. Then bacteria and other microorganisms digest it and the molecules end up as fertilizer that way. 

Basically, whatever you put it into the tank stays there until it is removed. Changes form, though. 

Fish food becomes fish tissue, becomes waste (poop) becomes part of a bacterium, and so on, until a plant absorbs it. Then you prune the plant and take it to your aquatic plant club, which removes those molecules from your tank. 

With few fish in the tank you may not be able to add enough fish food to count as fertilizer (however indirectly) without risking the fish getting fat. 
There is nothing wrong with adding fertilizer in its most basic chemical form. 

However, if you still want to fertilize the tank with fish food, try placing the fish food in a nylon stocking, and allowing the water to bring some bacteria etc. to it. Keep the food away from the fish by keeping it in the bag to rot and turn into fertilizer.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

I like those suggestions for adding fish food to the tank without my betta eating it on me. I do plan on getting some fertilizers for the tank because I want to try to get my plants growing well again while killing off that algae.

I do have two questions regarding fertilizers although it may sound a bit silly. When I have to get ferts for my tanks, I often get them from hydroponics shops because it's cheaper. The shop near my town has monopotassium phosphate. Is this okay to use for aquariums? I'm not sure what the 'mono' means because I've always heard of it being referred to as potassium phosphate. Also, will this fertilizer affect my water hardness both GH and KH in any way? I have hard water so I don't want it to suddenly become harder or very soft on me.

Thanks again!


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Red_Rose said:


> ...monopotassium phosphate. Is this okay to use for aquariums? ...


I have used it several times when I had the 125 (which I just finished the break-down on for the move out to get phosphate levels up and because the plants seem to LOVE a little extra potassium in the diet. I never got the levels just right for having zero GSA, but at least it was mostly just on the Anubias leaves and not on other plants or the glass (except a few isolated spots here and there).


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

mudboots said:


> I have used it several times when I had the 125 (which I just finished the break-down on for the move out to get phosphate levels up and because the plants seem to LOVE a little extra potassium in the diet. I never got the levels just right for having zero GSA, but at least it was mostly just on the Anubias leaves and not on other plants or the glass (except a few isolated spots here and there).


It's good to know that what the shop sells is okay to use for my tank.  Once I get to the pet store and get my water tested, I'll post the findings here.

As strange as it is to say, I kind of hope there is a bit of a phosphate deficiency going on in the tank. That way, I'll actually know the cause behind the algae forming in the tank.


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## brenmuk (Oct 7, 2008)

Staghorn algae is more an indication of a lack of CO2 not PO4. See the algae guide (follow plant problems menu) on this website:

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/

There's also a guide to dosing ferts on this site.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

brenmuk said:


> Staghorn algae is more an indication of a lack of CO2 not PO4. See the algae guide (follow plant problems menu) on this website:
> 
> http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/
> 
> There's also a guide to dosing ferts on this site.


According to the AlgaeFinder on this site, it can sometimes be caused by lack of CO2 but normally it's caused by a lack of macro nutrients.

Also, from the site you posted, signs of a CO2 deficiency is very small growth and possibly calcium deposits on the leaves. I don't have any of those signs in my tank but I do have signs that look extremely similar to that of a phosphate deficiency and quite possibly, a very mild potassium deficiency as well which leads me to believe that that is what I'm dealing with. I'll know more once I get the water tested.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

I had gotten my water tested tonight and the phosphates were practically non-existent. He said my nitrates were the same but since I have the test for that, I'm going to compare the two results.

I do have a question though. When taking water out of a tank to test it, does it matter what area of the tank the water is taken from? I normally just take it from near the surface but I was told tonight that to get a more accurate reading, one must take the water from the bottom near the substrate. I had never heard of that before so is it true? I have good circulation in that tank so I can't see why the water near the surface would be any different then what's at the bottom.

I'll be getting some potassium phosphates hopefully this weekend depending on the stores hours.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

If you have good water movement in the tank then it should not matter where in the tank you take the water from. The nutrients are pretty well circulated throughout the tank. 

To get a test of what nutrients might be in the substrate you would want to get a sample that comes from pretty deep under the substrate, and not contaminate it with water column water. That is different from what you are doing at the moment. 

If your tank has poor water circulation then perhaps it would be a good idea to test several samples: Near the surface, near the substrate, and nearest to the worst looking plants.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Once I either find a different LFS that tests water or buy a phosphate test kit myself, I'll let you know of the results again. Getting water samples from different areas of the tank sounds like a good thing to try even though the water is well circulated. It might be best just to buy the test kit myself.

When I had gotten the water tested a couple of days ago, he told me that the nitrates in the tank were at zero which I found odd because I always have some nitrates in that tank so I tested it myself at home and sure enough, my nitrates were at 10ppm, not zero.(I also had my phosphate levels tested that night.) After that, I'm skeptical about the result of the phosphate test. He obviously didn't do the nitrate test properly so he could have very well messed up the phosphate one too.


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