# Effects of water conditioner on nutrients



## Frank Drebin (Sep 1, 2005)

Hi!

How much would a water conditioner (like AquaSafe, AquaTan, etc.) afects nutrients on aquarium water?

I read that these products neutralizes chloramines and so, they neutralize amonium too, right? And where do these Nitrogen from amonium go? Are they available to the plants?

And nitrates, do they neutralize nitrates too?

Do these products act only a few minutes after use, or do they last longer in the aquarium water? (perhaps lowering dry ferts that we add)


Thanks.


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## random_alias (Nov 7, 2005)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9632&highlight=water+conditioner+nutrients


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## cS (Jan 27, 2004)

*Disclaimer: I am not sure how much information you wanted to know so I'll include everything because I don't know how to answer many of your questions without going into details.







*



> I read that these products neutralizes chloramines and so, they neutralize amonium too, right?


I don't know what AquaSafe, AquaTan, Prime, or such products contain but I do suspect that they all contain the same active ingredient as Novalek's Amquel Plus: sodium hydroxymethanesulfonate (HOCH2SO3Na). Here is a detailed look at how the active ingredient removes chlorines, ammonia, and chloramines.

*DECHLORINATION*
OCl- + HOCH2SO3Na --> H2NCH2SO4Na + Cl-

We see above that the free chlorine (OCl-) is being transformed into the harmless chloride (Cl-) ion.

*DECHLORIAMINATION*
NH2Cl + HOCH2SO3Na --> H2NCH2SO3Na + H+ + OCl-

Here we see the neutralization of the chloramines (NH2Cl) into harmless H2NCH2SO3Na and free chlorine (OCl-). The OCl- is then neutralized per the process of dechlorination as stated in the first equation.

*DEAMINATION*
NH3 + HOCH2SO3Na --> H2NCH2SO3Na + H2O

Here we see ammonia (NH3) being locked away in H2NCH2SO3Na where it can't do any harm.



> And where do these Nitrogen from amonium go?


Although not stated on most labels, HOCH2SO3Na also detoxifies ammonium (NH4) in addition to NH3. The removal of NH4 is actually an indirect process:

(1) HOCH2SO3Na removes NH3.
(2) The reduction of NH3 causes NH4 to convert into NH3 due the shift in the NH3 <=> NH4 in accordance with Le Chatelier's principle.
(3) The newly formed NH3 is then neutralized by HOCH2SO3Na through deamination as outlined above.



> Are they available to the plants?


The chloride (Cl-) is removed from the tank through its consumption by plants and water changes. The complexed nitrogens (H2NCH2SO3Na, H2NCH2SO3Na, and H2NCH2SO4Na) are removed from the system via water changes and bacterial decomposition. I do not know if the plants are able to absorb these complexed nitrogens directly. However, they do consume them indirectly: bacteria decomposes these complexed nitrogens into nitrate (NO3). As you already know, plants can readily consume NO3. 



> And nitrates, do they neutralize nitrates too?


Yes, it does neutralize NO3.



> Do these products act only a few minutes after use, or do they last longer in the aquarium water? (perhaps lowering dry ferts that we add) [...] How much would a water conditioner (like AquaSafe, AquaTan, etc.) afects nutrients on aquarium water?


Sodium hydroxymethanesulfonate (HOCH2SO3Na) is stable and will float around the aquarium *indefinitely* until they find free chlorines, NH3/4, chloramines, NO3, and heavy metals to react with.

As far as how they affect "dry fertilizers", it's a tricky situation that I don't have a clear answer for. Someone knowledgeable would have to chime in for that. As far as I am concerned, the answer relies on whether or not the complexed forms of NO3, NH3/4, and heavy metals are directly available for plant consumption.

If they are, then the overall effect on "dry fertilizers" on plant growth would be zero. If, however, the complexed forms of these ions are not at all _directly_ available to the plants, then everything rests on how fast the bacteria converts them into a useable form. That rate is not known to me.

*HOWEVER*, I do know specifically about the fate of the complexed NO3 and heavy metals. The complexed NO3 is indeed directly available for plant consumption. The complexed heavy metals can or cannot depending on how they were "neutralized" by the product. They can either be chelated or they can be precipitated. If precipitation occured, then it depends on how fast the bacteria can convert them back into a usable form. If chelation occured, then it depends on how efficient the plants are at breaking the bond between the chelating agent and the heavy metals.

---

I hope that this lengthly discourse is of some use and clarifies a few things for you.


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

random_alias said:


> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9632&highlight=water+conditioner+nutrients


This is a discussion forum, and there's nothing wrong with starting up a new conversation on a previously discussed topic. Instead of being a "search button thumper," perhaps you should add users to your ignore list since they seem to irritate you so much.

I for one am glad to see new users being attracted to the hobby and posting on the boards, and I don't appreicate this "welcome" you are giving them.


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## random_alias (Nov 7, 2005)

I'm sorry Frank, this has nothing to do with you or your thread and it shouldn't be in your post in the first place, but I won't let someone add such an interpretation to a simple URL linking. Please just ignore this and Salt's above comment that was directed directly towards me. I promise this won't get out of hand. We will NOT ruin your thread for you.

Nothing about this thread irritated me until just now! Jesus, I didn't say anything, I didn't imply anything, I just posted helpful information. My post contained 0 words. I linked to an outside source, the search wouldn't have brought it up even if it had been used. I went out of my way to find information for someone. I just didn't feel like typing all that stuff over again. I do research for people, I take pictures for people, I try to be helpful in a way that most people do not. Don't try to present me as some grinch or newbie hater. I contributed something to this thread, what have you done? I contributed a heck of a lot to the last one, too. If you want to focus on one aspect of who I am or what I do, that's fine, but I'm going to constantly remind you of the other side until you start giving me a fair assessment.

Back off. What I said before has either been taken way out of context or I've grossly misrepresented myself. Do not turn this thread into something it wasn't intended to be by drawing me into defending or explaining myself. If anyone else had posted that link you would have thought they were being helpful. The fact that you had all that to say based on my posting a link makes it obvious that this is a personal matter between you and me and you still have plenty to say regarding it. If you have a problem with me, or if you aren't finished, take it into personal messaging so I can break it down for you. Following behind me taking shots at me because you are assuming my intentions is not helping anything. Don't try to read between my lines, just take what I post at face value.

If anyone else has anything to say or needs an explanation, personal message me. Don't go around tagging other people's threads putting me in a position where I need to make posts like this in response. It derails the original topic. I made that mistake earlier and now you have, too, Salt. That makes us even in the matter. We can't keep doing this though.

I won't let someone misrepresent me. If you come behind me and take a public shot at me you better be ready for my response because I will call you out and if you are being a fool I will point it out to everyone. If you do that to me in public and in an out-of-place thread then I have the right to respond publically as well. If the mods want to delete this that would be fine, but please delete Salt's misinterpretation as well.

Salt, if you need to talk to me, talk to ME. No need to air our dirty laundry in public. No more posts concerning this should pop up here or anywhere else.

Frank's thread will now get back on topic.


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## Frank Drebin (Sep 1, 2005)

Let's forget... artyman: I'm sure that you both had good intentions...   
Thanks again for replying my post!


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## Avalon (Mar 7, 2005)

I've been using Tetra's Aquasafe for years and I've grown some mighty fine plants during that time (but not all the time  ). Practically speaking, I would say for at least Aquasafe, there are no detrimental effects as a result of using it.


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## titan97 (Feb 14, 2005)

I had a similar question about AquaSafe almost a year ago. I had called up the company and asked them directly. The responded by saying that it would be best to avoid adding micros soon (24 hrs or so) after treating any water with AquaSafe. Just to be on the safe side, they said. 

Recently, I picked up some Chlor Neutralizer (sodium thiosulfate) from my local pool shop and have been using that instead. It will remove the chlorine and chloramine for sure. I'm not sure how it affect heavy metals, but it shouldn't have any effect like the more complex reagents out there.

-Dustin

EDIT: So I see now that the thiosulfate converts the chloamine to harmless chloride and not-so-harmless ammonia. I suppose I could couple the thiosulfate with an ammonia killer, or just let it ride naturally. SInce I don't do any significant water changes, I won't have to worry about it too much. However, you EI guys may want to stick with the hydroxymethanesulfonate-based stuff.


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