# Absolute Knowns in Planted Aquariums



## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

It's almost an absolute known or fact that Planted aquariums vary from tank to tank. What might work in one person aquarium might not work in yours, etc. What are some absolute truths that your tank found to be consistant with other member's aquariums? In other words, what do you consider to be some known facts, equipment, etc that work for most planted aquariums? 

I'll start...

1) Pressurized CO2 best option for CO2 inject
2) Seachem Excel best for CO2 supplementation, and can help to fight off algae
3) 

-John N.


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## mrbelvedere138 (Jan 18, 2006)

I'm going to say that water changes are always good.


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Neat thread John.

More light = more algae risk if not supplemented by appropriate plant bio-mass, CO2 and other nutrients.

Plants do not need 12 hours lighting.

Heavier planting = less algae risk, assuming appropriate light/nutrients.

Nutrient-rich substrates aren't essential if running a nutrient-rich water column.


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## bigstick120 (Mar 8, 2005)

Water movement is very important, add power heads if you have dead spots in you tank

Clean filters when the flow is slowed


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## Rich M (Mar 6, 2004)

Sorry but I've got to disagree with #2. Using Excel at recommended dosage and overdosing did virtually nothing for my algae problems and I used it both ways for an extended period of time. 

I agree that water changes are probably the only true constant regardless of set up.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Rich M said:


> Sorry but I've got to disagree with #2. Using Excel at recommended dosage and overdosing did virtually nothing for my algae problems and I used it both ways for an extended period of time.
> 
> I agree that water changes are probably the only true constant regardless of set up.


And, I disagree about the water changes. If you are doing a low tech, no injected CO2 tank, you want to avoid unnecessary water changes. Tap water usually contains some dissolved CO2, so doing a 50% water change can add CO2, and if the tank normally doesn't have any you are introducing a non stable amount of CO2. Unstable CO2 = algae blooms. Excel works sometimes, maybe even most times, for most people, but not always and not for everyone, so it isn't a universal truth (engraved on wood, not on granite).


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## joephys (May 9, 2006)

I got the three obvious ones!

Plants need Carbon
Plants need water
Plants need light

I guess the other ferts are needed too, but those are the obvious three.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

(1) The oldies but goodies---the plants that have been with the hobby for 50 years or more are the easiest to grow. 

(2) If CO2 is limiting, then the plant that is fully adapted to growing submersed and can't grow emersed is going to out-compete the plant that is amphibious.


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

Excellent and much needed post!

I would say that any time a planted tank's N, P or K reach zero, growth will suffer and you will get algae very quickly.


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## turbowagon (Jan 5, 2006)

NH4 spike will result in an algae bloom.

If you stir up the substrate by uprooting a lot of plants or doing a major rescape, and don't follow with a water change, you're at risk for green water.


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## mrbelvedere138 (Jan 18, 2006)

hoppycalif said:


> And, I disagree about the water changes. If you are doing a low tech, no injected CO2 tank, you want to avoid unnecessary water changes. Tap water usually contains some dissolved CO2, so doing a 50% water change can add CO2, and if the tank normally doesn't have any you are introducing a non stable amount of CO2. Unstable CO2 = algae blooms. Excel works sometimes, maybe even most times, for most people, but not always and not for everyone, so it isn't a universal truth (engraved on wood, not on granite).


Hmmmm.....perhaps it comes with stipulations. Perhaps not when doing hardcore PPS and having a low tech tank. Then again, it isn't an absolute truth then.

Oh well. Water changes are good for 90% of people.


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## andy485 (Aug 19, 2005)

How bout blue-green algae outbreaks are some of the most digusting slimy things on the planet. Yes, I have had 2 of them. Straight RO water no additives, and 4WPG with no CO2. Will do it everytime.


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## bijoon (Nov 20, 2006)

Ok basic stuff, but it can pay to rethink how you maintain your aquarium. 

Its always better to under feed, rather than to overfeed.

Dont suck. - one of my teachers told us this before tests, i guess it can be applied to the hobby too.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Here's are some absolutes:

1) The so-called science behind keeping planted tanks is constantly changing and will continue to change as our understanding progresses.

2) A planted tank is a nice addition to any home or office.

3) No quantity of intelligence or experience can prevent catastrophe.

4) Our planted aquariums are not better than nature.

5) An aquascape's beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

6) All planted tanks are more interesting when seen in person.

7) People on this forum are more interesting in person.


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## Squawkbert (Jan 3, 2007)

CO2 is good

Letting a DIY CO2 bottle get tipped over is very bad

Even in the same tank, different sprigs from the same plant will vary in growth as a function of location

Even if you're good, being lucky can be better


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

To restate guaiacboy's No. 1: Don't take long naps. The "science" of planted tanks will pass you by so fast you won't know the first thing about the "best" way to keep such tanks when you wake up.


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## Freemann (Mar 19, 2004)

-Nobody knows for sure how it all works relax you are not on your own.
-All people have at some point algae stricken tanks even the "gurus" of it all.
-Always make a thorough check of your tap water parameters before you start a tank so you know what you dump in after each water change and take it into consideration in your dosing.
-Plants don't like too warm water so in summer use a chiller or fans (fans by evaporation increase hardness and thicken the "soup" in general) to cool your water.
-Water changes are good but remember to add what you took out (except if your intend is to dilute in purpose), take into consideration what tap water adds.
-First grow them healthy, this is what matters most then aquascape them if you can do both even better.
-Proper plant care is science we like it or not.
-Initially don't load your tank with lots - expensive fancy fish one mistake and they die.
-A good rich substrate properly prepared always helps a lot and helps keep nutrients out of the column at least to a degree where they can't be utilised from algae.
-It takes time to get a tank established usually months so one must be patient.
-Going away on vacations can be a problem with a tank, usually you find a plant jungle or an algae jungle or both, filters can clog, CO2 can rocket high or plunge to 0, NH3 can get sky high. Plan, prepare in advance.
-Be prepared to do lots of algae scrubbing, fluffing, and sucking at some point in your hobby it comes with the job.
-Deficiencies come in old and new leaves in a distict way for various nutrients it can help a lot to recognise what is what.
-Too much light can be an aggressive thing if someone want to play with it he must bear in his mind that algae will come fast if he makes mistakes.
-Crystal clear water is one of the signs of a healthy tank.
-Happy fish make sex all the time, group apropriately for their species and are active.
-Mercury Vapor Lamps are cheap need no ballasts and are very good for plant growth and nobody cares about them anymore.
-Not all waters are the same.
-Bacteria are an integral very basic part of a planted aquarium.
-Use nature as an example as much as possible.
-An oversupply of nutrients can be just as damaging to plant growth as undersupply.
Just some that come to mind


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## Aeropars (Apr 20, 2006)

Lets cause some controversy....

Everyone WILL experience algae, no materr how little.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

Less organics mean less algae. I don't believe light is the ulitmate algae control I believe controlling organics in the water column is. The less fish and the less you feed the better off you are. This will allow you more wiggle room with light, ferts, co2, etc. Having a high fish load is a double-edged sword because not only are your waste issues higher, but one tends to feed more. Whatever they tell you to feed your fish on the package cut it by at least half. Most fish in planted aquaria pick on things all day and really don't require alot of food. I feed a pinch once a day only 6 times a week. 

I agree everyones' tanks are different. Nature doesn't happen on one level and in a vaccum and neither does an aquarium. Everything plays a part and one's solution might not help another, but I do believe the organic control is a no-brainer.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Two more absolutes:

1. Never keep gambusia with other fish, especially in a 
heavily planted tank. Let them abuse themselves
in a species tank if you must have them.

2. If you have a large dog, never place a rocking chair so 
that its back is within striking distance of your tank. 
The result is a terrible thing to see when you come 
home.

Bill


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## Rich M (Mar 6, 2004)

Point taken regarding water changes. I thought about it after posting and another variable is the water itself, I have well water, others have municipal etc. I think the only absolute constant is that their is no true absolute constant with planted aquaria!


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

> I think the only absolute constant is that their is no true absolute constant with planted aquaria!


Truer words were never said! 

IMO, CO2 is the thing which will make the biggest difference towards good plant growth.


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

Great thread. Interesting how there are already discussions on what some consider absolutes!  

I don't think I take much risk is stating that absolutes for planted aquariums are:

1. Water is necessary (not necessarily for the plants but for having a planted *aquarium*  ).

2. Plants require light and various nutrients (C, O2, N, P, K, Mg, Ca, Fe and traces).

3. There are no absolutes as to how one mixes together 1 & 2, nor the exact amounts/concentrations, nor the ratios to use, nor the method of mixing them together...


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## fish newb (May 10, 2006)

Laith said:


> 2. Plants require light and various nutrients (C, O2, N, P, K, Mg, Ca, Fe and traces).


You stole mine!

How about, you never know how the tank will look tomorrow. That's one of the things that makes this hobby - thins hobby  ....

And everyone will get algae at least once!

-Andrew


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## jon_the_newb (Dec 30, 2006)

When you do get algae, it may very well go away on its on....only to replaced with a different algae later on.

I had some nasty thread/hair algae attempt to take over my 29G and 20G tanks. I pulled the stuff every chance I got, in mass quantities... I got so tired of it, I let it go and stopped pulling it out...some time later (days, weeks?) I noticed it was gone. My fish never showed interest in eating it and my wife didn't pull it. It just seemed to have burned itself out. On the plus side, the 29G is algae free, but the 20G has some small bushy stuff showing up.

Jon


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## siliconcarbide (Mar 8, 2006)

I am new to this hobby, but my current wisdom after about 7 months managing a planted tank:

CO2 made a big difference in plant growth
Light with a natural spectrum
Excel to control algae
Potassium
Flourish
Stay away from adding nitrogen and phosphorous it doesn't seem to be necessary with a tank of fish. I know that the current wisdom is that low nitrogen or phosphorous causes algae, but I have not found that to be true.

Alan


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

guaiac_boy said:


> 4) Our planted aquariums are not better than nature.


That's one I'll have to take exception with.

I would hazard a guess that many times, perhaps even most of the time our planted aquariums are better than nature.

By better I mean bigger, healthier, more robust plants and less algae.

Lots of photos of "wild" plants I have seen show plants that are thriving but look pretty pathetic. Certainly not something aesthetically pleasing.


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## snowhillbilly (Mar 29, 2006)

1) Seachem Excel best for CO2 supplementation, and can help to fight off algae. I think they should even think about remarketing this product as an algae destroyer.

2)Only add as much CO2 to your plants as you have time to trim them back.


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## fish newb (May 10, 2006)

How about, We think too much about these things! 

We definatly get obsessed and I know that this is my anti drug!

-Andrew


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## Marauder (Apr 17, 2006)

1. My friends will ALWAYS drop by when the tank is at it's worst.

2. Unless your name is Takashi Amano, you'll never completely master this hobby.

3. Planted tanks have a steep learning curve. Then it gets worse! You'll never know everything.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Marauder said:


> 2. Unless your name is Takashi Amano, you'll never completely master this hobby.


I think that this is pretty far from an "absolute". Amano has done an incredible amount for this hobby but if you watch his style & technique it's evolved quite a bit over his career. Ongoing change implies that he hasn't yet "mastered" it.


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## Marauder (Apr 17, 2006)

Nice point. However it does seem like he is able to set up a planted tank and make it look exactly like way he wants. So far, I haven't come close to making my tank look like I have it pictured in my head.


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

anything works if you put your mind to it.
research is your best friend when jumping in head first.


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## fish newb (May 10, 2006)

READ READ READ SEARCH SEARCH SEARCH

Before doing anything any way related to this hobby  

-Andrew


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