# Starting a 180 gallon



## Olvar (Nov 21, 2006)

Well I've been lurking in this thread for a while now and finally decided to register and ask my question. I've recently gotten a 180 gallon tank that was set up previously as a saltwater tank. I'm not a total newbie, since I used to run nice tanks back in college, even was able to breed some supposedly unbreedable eels (pure luck honest).

I'm not ready to get it going yet, in fact I haven't even started cleaning the salt out of it (the previous owner wasn't into cleaning). Anyway I've been wanting to make a big El Natural tank and with buying a new house wanting to do it on a budget. I liked the look of the T-Grade 3M Colorquartz Sand mentioned in AaronT's article. I was wondering if there were problems with it compacting. 

I was also looking at DataGuru's 125 tank and really like the look of the Amazons and Vals in there. I saw she used peace lilies as well in the filter, I'm wondering if those would grow in the tank itself?

Anybody else have any ideas for a tank this large? I notice there are very few tanks this large ever posted and most of the ones I've found are salt water tanks.


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## sb483 (May 29, 2006)

Hi Olvar,
Have you read Diana Walstad's book on Planted Aquaria? If not I suggest you read it - it's guaranteed to make your job easier (and cheaper). She recommends many varieties of plants, and to keep them growing: a soil underlayer (potting soil or garden soil) covered with gravel and sunlight from a window. Sand might not provide plants with all the nutrients they need; getting plants to grow might be easier with soil at the bottom.
Her book goes over how plants keep algae from growing, keep fish healthy, etc. With a tank that big, you could try out a whole slew of plants, and see which ones take over after a few months.
Also I don't think peace lillies oxygenate the water; imho a peacy lily sticking out of a planted tank makes the whole tank look smaller, even one as big as yours. But whatever you like..
When you set up your tank, post some photos here


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

The 3M quarz will be fine, no compaction issues. But of course you need to put a rich layer of substrate under it.

I have a tank with the 3M quarz that has peat, activated carbon and laterite under it. With very low light and very low but steady CO2 crypts have fluorised without any water column fertilization.

If your tank is 2 ft tall (standard 180 is 6x2x2) then about 300 watts of light will make the tank "low light" and you will never have to scrub algae. You can add additional light for a few hours during the day to help the plants grow and keep algae at practically zero.

With planted tank you will find that you do much more water changes than with a sw tank. Get a good size hose for draining the tank and a long size hose to run from your faucet to the tank to fill up. Also get a big clip from Home Depot to hold the hose in place while you wait for the tank to fill. You can see the clip and how to use it here:
http://www.aquatic-plants.org/gallery/albums/album32/adg_jeff_180_1.sized.jpg

The tank on the picture is also a 180, here are more pictures of setting it up:
DFWAPC Gallery :: Jeff Senske from ADG sets up a 180 gals. planted tank

--Nikolay


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## Olvar (Nov 21, 2006)

No I haven't read her book yet, mostly because I haven't been able to find it locally and haven't taken the time to really look for it on the internet. I'm not pressed for time at this point, it's sitting in my garage waiting to be cleaned, but i'm not expecting to actually have it ready any time soon. In the meantime i've got a 10 gallon tank cycling and a 30 gallon tank i'm going to experiment some with what I eventually choose for substrate choices. Also will give me a chance to accumulate some bio material before I start setting up that big tank.

Sorry I wasn't clearer about it, but i'm not planning on using the sand as the only substrate, in AaronT's post he explained what he used under it (will depend on what I can find locally or if i'll have to make substitutions), but I did like the black color against all of the green vegetation. 

I liked the look of the plants growing up out of the tank that DataGuru had posted and since I have tons of peace lilies around, I thought it might make an interesting corner, especially since it looked like hers bloomed quite a bit that way. The current light bar on this tank is extremely underpowered so i'll have to redo lighting, and those hanging lights were an idea, especially if plants are growing out of the top of the tank. 

I guess part of what i'm looking at is in a 6' x 2' x 2' tank, what will and what won't work. I've heard a lot about plants that just don't work in smaller tanks (some amazons for example), but just how much space do some of these need.

Thanks for the info Niko, luckily right outside of the room used to be an old laundry room before there was an addition for new utility room, while the washer and dryer are long gone, the hookups are still hanging there as well as a drain, so I'm thinking i'll leave them so i can use a regular hose connection instead of winding a faucet hookup from the bathroom thru two rooms. I've still got the clips in my toolbox they've just gotten used for other projects over the years. 

Thanks for the link to the pics, they answered another question I had which what planting while tank was dry, or filling 2-3 inches above the substrate and then planting.


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## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

Hi Olvar

First off read Diana's book.

With that size of tank and a ready water source and drain plumbing I would look at an automatic water change system, it can really cut down on maintenance.
There is a thread in the DIY forum dealing with auto water change systems.


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

The peace lillies I planted in the substrate with the leaves emergent are doing ok. The ones I hung at the back of the tank (and didn't plant the roots) are very very happy.

the amazon sword is about 2 foot across now (after having it around 2 years) and reaches the top of my 120. Now that that sun's coming in the south windows again, it should start sending out runners with new plantlets again. It took up almost half the tank when it had all the runners and plantlets on it. I'm also really liking the kleiner bar sword and the barthii sword. They have some red in them, especially the new leaves. The ozelot swords are smaller and the young spotted leaves look cool, but they're kinda blah as the leaves mature. I have a martii sword too, but it's way too tall and the leaves flop over and shade other plants rather than going emergent.

My bronze crypts are very happy and about a foot and a half tall now. I really like them.

I wouldn't recommend the sag subulata. It's seriously invasive and I pull tons of it out every couple of weeks. The vals also do the runner thang, but they don't grow quite as fast as the sag does. they make more of a mess when you pull them up tho, cuz they have a larger root system than the sag. Giant hair grass also does well and it's ok, but tends to wander where it wants with runners.

So is this tank going to get any direct sunlight?

Sounds like you're set with a water source nearby. However, if you do set it up as a NPT, you won't be doing that many water changes. I do two, maybe three a year in my NPTs.


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## Olvar (Nov 21, 2006)

I definately plan on finding a copy of her book, but nobody around here carries it and I haven't bothered to get it online yet (No Internet at home yet and don't like to order stuff from work). As I first said I won't be putting water into this tank until at least after the new year, and being a speed reader I doubt it will take me too long to get thru the first read. :rofl: 

How did you hang them, are the roots just suspended in the water column? I have a ton of peace lillies growing in bushel baskets in the sun room so I've got a ready source of them.

Really the only sword I had been thinking about so far was the Amazon sword, since it seems to average about 2ft and the tank is big enough to hold one i'd like to try it at least. I'll add the bronze crypts to my list. For groundcover i've seen a lot of people recommend glosso and marsilea (not sure if i spelled that right). I can't see to find the ?marsilea? in the plantfinder, not sure if it was a type of quadriflora or not, I'll have to find my notes to check. I've found the glosso in the plantfinder, but it seems to prefer higher light and Co2 injection. What are the bronze crypts and jungle vals listed as in the plantfinder?(Still learning my way thru proper names for stuff) Are there any other good options for lowlight groundcover?

No direct sunlight, actually very little indirect as well. It's in a bedroom that is underground and has three windows about 8 inches tall and 16 inches wide, sitting down in window wells. The tank I got also only had one double 4ft light strip on it, no hood, just laying on it, so i'm thinking of making my own hood for this, maybe an open top, with a raised border to keep jumpers in. Then suspending lights similar to your setup DataGuru. 

One of the reasons this will take me a while is that I'm going to try this first in a smaller tank to make sure the soil works with my water, then if I have no or little problems i'll start setting up the big tank. The one of the little ones will eventually probably become a shrimp tank, either the 10 gal, or the 29.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

Welcome to APC Olvar. 

I haven't had issues with the sand compacting on me, nor have any others using it that I know of. The key there is not to use too deep of a layer of sand. Also, it's important that you use the T-grade as it's a larger grain size. The sand is extremely dense and holds plants better than any substrate I've used and I've used them all (almost all anyhow).'

I would use a about 1.5" in the front (over the 1" of soil) and about 2.5" in the rear to create a slope effect. The 3M sand will only have the slightest amount of dust in it so I just add it straight to the tank. The dust will be on the surface of the tank for a bit. I use paper towels to soak it up for the first few days or so and then it's gone for good.

Also, if the tank will be fairly densely planted compacting is not an issue regardless. The roots of the plants will serve to aerate the substrate sufficiently.

I'm looking forward to watching this tank get setup.


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## Olvar (Nov 21, 2006)

Do you use MTS's with it? That will be another chore once i get to that point since none of the LFS here seem to know what MTS are either, they kept pointing me to mystery snails and once said well a snail's a snail isn't it... Luckily it seems that plenty of members here have an abudance of them and don't mind shipping some, so i'll probably go that route to get good ones.

Unfortunately I hit Home Depot this weekend asking about it and got HUH?!? So now to check Lowe's and online for it. 

I'll definately be taking pictures of it all, just waiting to finish fixing one of the doors so i can get my tripod set up, currently it's holding the laser level.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

You were asking about the 3M sand at Home Depot? You won't find it there or any other hardware store. You'll want to find a local flooring supply shop that is a distributor. I went to 3M Worldwide and searched for the colorquartz. You can then find a local distributor and give them a call.

I don't use MTS snails. There's no need for them that I can see so long as the tanks is well planted. Even if it's sparsely planted, I still wouldn't bother with them. They can be a pain when planting foreground plants. They'll uproot them before they have a chance to take.


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## Olvar (Nov 21, 2006)

Yep found it and only one distributor in the State. Amazingly enough if you Goggle Colorquartz, you come up with more fish related links than anything. 

Hmm I guess i can try it without them and then if i'm having problems with waste breakdown i'll add them in later. I doubt it will be planted heavily at the beginning just due to cost. Rough guess for a 6' X 2' footprint any idea how much of this it is going to take? I'm guessing 3 or 4 bags, but if you are using it, i was hoping you'd have a better idea of how it lays out.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

I used about 1.5 bags to cover my 75 gallon. That footprint is 48x18. I'd guess 3 bags would suffice.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Olvar said:


> I definately plan on finding a copy of her book, but nobody around here carries it and I haven't bothered to get it online yet (No Internet at home yet and don't like to order stuff from work). As I first said I won't be putting water into this tank until at least after the new year, and being a speed reader I doubt it will take me too long to get thru the first read. QUOTE]
> 
> The book isn't available in bookstores-- only via the Internet. If you send a $25 personal check to me, I'll send you an autographed copy. I'll trust you that the check is good.
> 
> ...


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## Olvar (Nov 21, 2006)

*Well no wonder!*

Lol, no wonder I can't seem to find a copy around here. I just figured because what tanks are done around here are pretty basic deals, the more chemicals the better seems to be the motto here. *shiver* Can't say had looked for it actively at a bookstore, but I'd checked most of the LFS's around here and nothing, heck the idea of a tank without chemicals and filters shocked them. I'll probably take you up on that offer.:yo: In the meantime I'll keep looking and compiling my list.


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## Grayum (Jun 14, 2006)

Oliver, the idea of a natrual eco system in an aquarium does scare the lfs! Believe me, its the total opposite from what they advise (the main reason i quit). I dont think the NPT would make them all that much money. I barley spend anything on my tanks, i struggle to get rid of the credit i have from breeding my brislenoses! Anyway, good luck with tank, I'll be watching to see what happens. I am getting 6x2x2 in the next little while and going natural, hoping for the amazing results ive seen in my smaller tanks.
Oh and Diana, I ordered your book from here in Australia, and mine wasnt autographed :'( 

Graham


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## Olvar (Nov 21, 2006)

Yah i know what you mean about it scaring them. I find it funny though how little some of the LFS's actually know. The one guy telling me that bacteria in a tank was BAD!!!! and that you should kill all bacteria in a tank any time you could, that was the whole point of water changes to reduce the amount of bacteria. I'm sitting there wanting to just tear my hair out and this kid next to him is just lapping and eating it up. 

Looking thru the Natural forums here has really gotten me excited about trying this. Also kind of heartbreaking when i think of the money I put into medium-high tech tanks back when I was in college (No Co2).


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## Olvar (Nov 21, 2006)

Ok here's the tank sitting in it's stand. The plastic edging around the tank edges was so brittle it cracked and peeled off when we picked it up and since it was causing us to lose our grip we just pulled it all off. I've seen mentioned in the DIY forums about using hoods to brace the tank. This one has a pretty sizable glass plate in the top center attached to the front and back (you can sort of see it in the pic), does anyknow know if i'll need more than that to get this ready? I was planning on using suspended lighting of some sort. Then I could have an open top for plant to grow out of, and probably some nylon mesh or screen to enclose it to the light in case i get any jumpers in the tank. It might or might not look right, but it's the best idea i've been able to come up with to allow both growth out of the tank and a way to keep jumpers in.


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## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

That glass brace is all that matters, the flimsy plastic is not needed.


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## Olvar (Nov 21, 2006)

*New Pics*

Thanks for the responce Bpimm, I did find out that I need to probably put the bottom ones back on, so the tank is not sitting directly on the plywood decking. Some people say they don't have problems with the glass cracking if it is sitting right on the plywood but with 180 gallons I'd rather not take a chance and have it all over my bedroom.

Ok I had a small Betta tank sitting around so I thought I'd try a soil test with some old potting soil I had sitting in the garage and some gravel from an old guppy tank I had set up for my step-sister a couple of years ago. The first pic is the tank about 30 minutes after I set it up. The only thing in the tank so far is a Cryptocoryne Wendtii that I picked up at PetSmart. No fish, or invertabrates in the tank.



I set the tank up last Sunday, here is a picture I took Friday night of the tank and it has looked like this all weekend. Remember that there are no fish or anything in this tank, also no CO2 in it, just the 10Watt CF bulb I put in.



Is it usual for plants to pearl this much? Especially with no fish or invertabrates in the tank? By Sunday all but the greenest leaves are totally covered in little air bubbles and it's definately a site. If I leave them on at night when the light goes off by morning there will be just a few small bubbles left, but again within an hour they are back.

The potting soil I've used has been sitting in a storage unit for somewhere between 3 and 5 years, so I'm assuming it has broken down the extra ferts, but I was just shocked to see this much pearling. I'm using an old set of chopsticks to stir up the water a bit and thought at first it was just bubbles in the water that caught on the leaves, but when I knocked them off, they will return in about an hour.


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## Satirica (Feb 13, 2005)

I don't know why the advice was given about water changes. Planted tanks require minimal water changes unless you are dosing a lot of fertilizers and are not testing the water -- a perfectly fine way of running a tank but not what NPTs are all about to my way of thinking. Frankly, in non-CO2 tanks I just top off the water and do water changes rarely. Fish are fine, algae is not an issue, plants are happy.


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## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

Olvar said:


> Thanks for the responce Bpimm, I did find out that I need to probably put the bottom ones back on, so the tank is not sitting directly on the plywood decking. Some people say they don't have problems with the glass cracking if it is sitting right on the plywood but with 180 gallons I'd rather not take a chance and have it all over my bedroom.


You can get a thin, 1/2" piece of foam insulation and put it under the tank on the stand. then you don't need the plastic trim. That is how my 80 Gal is set up. I used the cheap Styrofoam from home depot.


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