# ADG 90 cm/ADA Tank Photo Update 2-17



## MiamiAG

I'm posting on behalf of Jeff Senske:

I don't normally like to show layouts just after set-up and don'y ususally even shoot tanks at all until they are starting to take form. But this tank is special to me and the opportunity to work with all the ADA product one I covet, so I made an exception.

I will update these shots every couple of weeks so that we all may monitor the progress of what I believe is the first fully ADA compliant system here in the U.S. I am making it a point to use only ADA products on this tank in order to gain a better understanding of any differences and/or benefits of the ADA line. I welcome any questions you may have on any topic related to this aquarium the ADA products used.

Also, an update on ADA product line availability: We have made great progress on firming-up ADA product availability. The last real hurdle at this point is finalizing pricing. It has proven a little trickier than I first thought but we have just about got it. Rest assured we will have the e-commerce site with the entire line up and ready very soon- I would estimate sometime before Christmas barring any other unforseen issues.

Keep checking the ADG website at www.aquariumdesigngroup.com where you will click on "ShopADG" or any number of other obvious links to the ADA line. At this point I can now offer approximate pricing that I feel will be very close to actual so if there's something you are looking for in particular, please do give me a call at (281) 924-8894, and I'll be happy to assist. You mail also e-mail me directly at [email protected].

*The Tank*

Species used:

Anubias nana
Cryptocoryne wendtii - green 
Cryptocoryne- "bronze"
Bolbitis heudelotti
Microsorium sp.- "narrow-leaf"
Blyxa japonica
Eleocharis acicularis
Java Moss 
Isoetes japonica
Rotala nanjean
Rotala rotundifolia "green" 
Ammania multiflora
Ludwigia arcuata
A "rough draft" of the wood is laid out to establish the general direction of the layout.










The POWER SAND is added as a first layer. In this 36in.X18in. tank I will use 3- 2 liter bags (6 liters total).










The orangish powder visible already on the POWER SAND is BACTER 100. Here I am adding the CLEAR SUPER.










Next I add the TOURMALINE BC.










The white powder visible is PENAC P ("P" for "Plants" variety). Not a necessity, but a product Amano uses regularly. Here I add the AQUA OIL "Amazonia", 3- 9 liter bags (27 liters total).










I layout the wood, referencing my original "rough draft".










With the hardscape in place, I prepare to add the aquatic plants. Here I have already attached Java Moss to some key branches as it is much asier to do so before adding the individual pieces of wood to the tank.










Laying out the preped plants.










I begin this layout by establishing the midground.










Using pincettes I add Blyxa japonica. I would not have chosen this plant if I were using my prior substrate mixtures as it has never done well here in Texas with our hard water. I am confident the quick pH reducing characteristcs of the ADA substrate will enable me to finally grow one of my favorite aquatic plants. (so far so good!)










Adding Isoetes japonica and background plants as a final step before slowly filling the tank.



























































Updated January 2005:


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## ShaneSmith

That is really good art. DId you set it up or the Senske's. I am surprised at how well the hardscape and all is!


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## dennis

Where is the wood from, ADA? Could we have any more info on the setup of the whole tank. Every bit of info possible to show off the ADA products better. Thank is a nice looking tank, IMO. That tank looks better right after setup than mine do after a couple months


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## jsenske

Thanks for the kind words. I (Jeff) set up the tank here in our gallery in Houston. The wood comes from a supplier here in Texas and we went ahead and bought her entire inventory as- you all know- good hardscape materials are very difficult to come by. It is very similar to types Amano uses and when he saw it, he wanted to buy a whole skid! It was very hard to say "no" to Amano!!! But we are nothing as a company doing planted tanks without such materials. 

The tank is the 90cm (same dimensions as a U.S. 58 gallon-36"X18"X18").
The substrate is all ADA - Power Sand, a highly pourous peat-coated bottom layer. On top of that is Bacter 100- a bacteria and enzyme supplement containing over 100 different microorganisms in a dormant state- Clear Super- a powder-grade carbon to polish water and absorb excess organic substances and also help promote the proliferation of nitrifying bacteria. Also added is Toumaline BC- a mineral compound of iron, aluminum, sodium, boron, lithium and magnesium. These minerals are gradually dissolved and enrich the water (and roots) of important elements. I am also trying out a product from Germany called PENAC. It's function is really a whole other topic unto itself. The whole mix is topped with ADA AQUA SOIL- here I have used the "Amazonia" variety. 
Lighting is the ADA Grand Solar fixture which features a 150watt HQI 8,000Kelvin bulb flanked by 2- 32watt power compacts. The 8,000K bulb just looks perfect- not too blue, not too yellow. I've had one on my tank at home for some time now and it is magical. 
I could go on and on here, but probably it would be best if anyone interested just posts their questions and I'll keep checking back and answering. I also plan to do a full article on my observations of this system at different intervals that will be posted here or in the new APC online magazine. 
Also, we should have the full ADA product line available and posted on our website. We have gathered/translated full and detailed product descriptions for the whole line- but with special emphasis on the substrate system as that is where I see the most interest here in the U.S. I mean, all the ADA stuff is exceedingly cool and has a great "visual energy" to it, but the substrate system is something anyone/everyone can use with their other existing equipment and really benefit. I think folks will find the description information there very enlightening. I find there's still a lot of myth/mystery surrounding the ADA products and I hope to clear a lot of that up. I think you are going to find it a lot more affordable than you might have thought as well. 
I will also be using the ADA liquid fertilizers which are broken into "steps" and correspond the various phases of a planted tank- from initial set-up to long term care. I will offer a full report w/ photos on these products as well though I can tell you some tanks on Oliver Knott's website (which many APC members are already familiar with) feature the ADA liquids and I think those tanks- as far as being "non-Amano" - layouts really speak for themselves in terms of health and vigor.


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## IUnknown

I am so excited. The tank looks great! That is the 'Porsche' of all setups. Are the tanks, cabinets and light hangers going to be available?


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## Raul-7

Did you use ADA heater cables or do you not carry them? Also, is it true that ADA Amazonia, etc. have to be replaced yearly? How effective is the diffuser, does it provide near 100% diffusion?


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## RedBaron

Jeff, could you tell me if 8000K bulbs are typically sold with ADA lighting systems or maybe it was just your choice?


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## jaxal

jsenske said:


> the ADA Grand Solar fixture which features a 150watt HQI 8,000Kelvin bulb flanked by 2- 32watt power compacts. The 8,000K bulb just looks perfect- not too blue, not too yellow.


Jeff, I guess ADA use power compact *36 W* not 32 W 8000k square pin. I really want to know ADA ECA, Pyton-Git, Green Gain and PnacA (Stick form) Just let me know if you have chance to test it


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## jsenske

IUnknown- Yes, everything in the entire ADA line will be available. 

Raul-7 -I did not use the ADA heater cables. Here in Houston it stays very warm with only 1-2 months of "cold" weather. I have used heating cables before but ultimately did not find them necessary. But yes, the ADA heating "plate" will be available, but they come in preset sizes to fit only specific dimensions and of course they correspond to the different sized ADA tanks but they basically match the following U.S. standards: 20gallon (ADA 60cm), 58 gallon (ADA 90cm), 75 gallon (ADA 120cm), 135 gallon (ADA 180cm). 
Regarding the AQUA SOIL- by no means does it need to be changed out every year. Amano himself has it tanks going on 3+ years now. I can assure you that is a myth. As well, 3 or so of the last 5 AQUA JOURNALS focus was on long-term maintenance and on designing layouts specifically to be maintained for a long period of time (2+ years). This is one of the reasons I encourage people to subscribe to AQUA JOURNAL even if you don't read Japanese- you can learn a lot from the photos and the article titles and such that are in English. Also, as a side note, Amano expressed interest in doing AQUA JOURNAL in English transalation again. Clearly if a market emerges here in the U.S. (encouraged by subscriptions to Japanese version) it increases those chances. AQUA JOURNAL is more than just pictures and ads for ADA product these days as the whole back section is full of Q and A and technical info. not to mention a bounty of aquascaping inspiration. 
Regarding the diffuser- it is truly a thing of beauty and simplicity and really works great. ADA even makes different size and shape diffusers to correspond to different tank sizes and needs/desired looks. The one I am using has a much greater surface area than any other diffuser I used before and was what ADA specs for the 90cm. Everything in the line strikes me as very targeted and function specific. 

Red Baron- ADA 8,000K bulbs are typically included when you purchase the fixture though you can certainly specify either 8000 or 10000. Amano does at times use 10000K also, but predominantly 8000K. His regular flourescent NA bulbs have always been 8,000K. It can't express to you just how "right"/appropriate the 8,000 Kelvin bulb looks in the aquarium. Of course plants will adapt to and grow under a wide range of lighting types and temperatures, but I have always felt Amano was on to something with 8000 K - it just feels right. I have also had AQUA JOURNAL articles about the development of the 8000K bulbs translated and it is based on actual extensive field research where the under water light field of numerous aquatic plant biotopes was measured, so it's based in nature itself, not just what is easiest/cheapest to produce. No one else offers a bulb of this color temp. that I am aware of. We plant hobbyists are either getting old production/dated-theory type bulbs like 5000/6000K range, or we are sold reef tank/saltwater bulbs that are either merely repackaged to target planted tank consumers or just get a blurb on the packing that it will grow aquatic plants "also".


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## neilw

I dont really have much to add in the way of questions but what you are doing with this is brilliant and very interesting. I can't wait to see how the tank develops. 8) 8)


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## TWood

"Amano does at times use 10000K also, but predominantly 8000K. His regular flourescent NA bulbs have always been 8,000K. ... No one else offers a bulb of this color temp. that I am aware of."

Champion has 8800K lamps, has anyone tried these yet?

http://www.championlighting.com/e/e...ing.html?link=/Products/Lighting/pclamps.html

TW


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## jsenske

jaxal- you are correct, my mistake- 36 watt, not 32 watt. I will be using ECA, PHYTON-GIT, and Green Gain and will let you know how they work. I can offer you the following description of each, if you are not already familiar with their functions:

ECA- is rich in iron in a form that does not easily combine with other ions and thus helps prevent color-loss and improves overall condition of the plants ( similar concept to DuplaPlant 24 or "PMDD" types). Also contains other beneficial natural acids. 

PHYTON-GIT- Aquatic plants are known to secrete Phytoncide to protect themselves from disease. This product works with naturally extracted Phytoncide as well as other disinfectant agents to help plants regain their natural strength. It contains no "chemical" agents- it is natural extracts. 

GREEN-GAIN- Primarily helps speed regrowth of stemmed-plants after major trimming. A natural blend of trace elements and aminos that help ease stress and allow plants to grow back more vigorously- fuller and nicer. Probably how Amano achieves that amazing lush growth of stem plants. Aids also in disease resistance. Basically, you can trim a lot and trim heavy with a much faster grow-back time and with much more consistency (like when you major-trim multiple species and certain ones grow back faster/nicer than others. This helps "level the playing field" somewhat for all the trimmed species so the more stressed/disease-prone species can better keep up with the hardier ones. (remember that Amano is one of the few people who has acquired so much experience over his 30 years of aquascaping with these issues. At first it may seem a little unlikely that a company would develop such targeted products, but that is in fact the very way in which Amano has applied his experience to the industry- develping products that deal with so many of the issues we are constantly trying to figure out through our own trial and error. I think that could play a part in why the Japanese (and European) aquascape designers are currently operating at a little higher level than here in the U.S. - they have products and researched expertise that has become common knowledge so they are thus able to focus their energies on aquascaping and creativity and not so much plant/water health and maintenance concerns.


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## pineapple

Jeff,

Are you able to supply a printed catalogue of ADA products in English (eventually)? I have the Japanese version but would be quite interested in having some in-depth descriptions of items such as Clear Super, Penac (German origin, I think), and the various substrates. Or will the catalogue be ADG's web site and available electronically in PDF format?

Your website re-design is great by the way. The only minor (in my humble opinion  ) artistic failure is the photo of Amano 'drinking' with the Senske Bros. Being of English content, I certainly have nothing against imbibing and having clients in the Far East can understand the inside of this quite well. But I think you must have a great shot of the trio looking artistic. Perhaps one of the Senske Bros. visiting ADA in Japan?

I wonder whether you would be interested in starting an ADA forum here - or perhaps at ADG.com? A concentration of the information would be beneficial for you and for potential buyers/clients who must ask the same questions time and time again.

I hope your investment in time and money goes well. I will be looking forward to working with you when ADA goes live here.

Andrew Cribb


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## jsenske

Andrew, I agree about the photo of us w/Amano. It will be a temporary thing and I did stop and ponder its appropriateness (drinking and all). That shot you describe will happen. 
The online catalog at the ADG site will have detailed descriptions of all the products. They are translated from the Japanese text so some of the overall syntax my be a little "different" than we are used to, but the info. and content is there. As for a PDF scenario, we will offer that soon, but probably not at first as we play catch-up for a few weeks after dedicating a lot of time to just getting things launched. I think you'll find the online catalog/pricing very informative overall. Thanks so much for the input!


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## Phil Edwards

Jeff,

That's beautiful! The only other time I've seen that tank look better was in DC.  Seriously though, great job on the design. I'm looking forward to seeing how it matures, especially with it being an all ADA system, and how it compares to your usual fare. 

Would you also forward me the information for the lady you bought that wood from? I've always loved the stuff you get from her and would like to start carrying it at the store here in Charlotte. 

Regards,
Phil


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## jaxal

Thanks Jeff for detail of ECA, Pyton-Git and Green Gain. It look pretty expensive for a very small bottle. l guess they properly use only few drop each time. Do you know how much to use and how offen. As I know Green Gain use only when you trim the plants.

I also very interest in Penac A (Stick form). ADA clam that help water in good condition. I'm too late for PenacW (powder) because it has to be under substrate. Some Article say that it will dissovle oxigen for keep bacteria healthy. For PenacA, some Aticle say just drop the stick (not the wood container)in the tank. Does it really help a better water. So a stick(PenacA) should be some material the dissolve some oxigen too. Also they claim it will help for water wave motion movement. I'm so confuse. If you have any experienced please let me know. 

Do you will get ADA test kit, I have use it before. It the most easy test kit in the world. Just make a hole on plastic tube, let the water in, shake it. Done. Because all chemical powder is ready in tube. This is so creative test kit.


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## plantella

Hy Jeff,

very nice layout !

Great job...I love to see how it grows in the next months.

Best regards,

Oliver 
www.plantella.com


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## jsenske

Phil, 
Unfortunately, the source for the wood has "dried-up" so to speak. She simply does not have that wood anymore and worse still- she doesn't know if she'll get it again. It's a scary prospect for me too as I have developed quite a dependence on the stuff. The next phase for me would be to start sourcing out more stone/cool rocks from around the country. Rock is everywhere. Wood is so much harder to come by. 

Thanks for all the kind words about the new layout! Thank you Oliver!


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## niko

Jeff,

I believe many people here would be interested to hear about the light period that you use for that tank. Is there a time of the day when only the CF's are on?

Also, if you indeed run the CF's only for some time how does that affect the look of the tank? The light fixture is pretty high above the tank...

--Nikolay


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## Gomer

I was both impressed and dissappointed with that light setup. Everything was great till I looked at the PC setup....the reflector setup in there is extremely inefficient . IIRC, it pretty much was a small cavity that the PC sat in where the back had a mirror and the sides had nothing. It just begs to be modified with an AH reflector LOL


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## pineapple

Reflectors would add quite a bit of size to the fixture, and possibly weight from necessary supporting struts. The beauty of the ADA fixture is in its small - but relatively effective - size.

MH bulbs work with 'dimmers,' right? If that is the case, would it not be possible to make a MH controller that could be set to provide timed periods of light of different intensities? That idea harks back to the thought of providing morning-noon-evening lighting effects, which has been debated for years, I believe.

Andrew Cribb


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## IUnknown

> the PC setup....the reflector setup in there is extremely inefficient


I don't think it was intended for the plants, but more to view the tank. The 3-4 hour period of high light is what grows the plant, the PC's are just so that there is some light to see the tank for the rest of the day.


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## jsenske

Regarding the Grand Solar fixture and photoperiods:
Per Amano's suggestion, I am limiting the photoperiod to 7 hours. The HQI is so intense, that backing off the old standard of 10 hours/day becomes "a good idea". I think you could go up to 10 hours in a really high-light requiring type layout, but I have experienced some growth/nutrient deficiency issues when going that long with HQI. Amano recommends 6-8 hours of HQI. I settles on 7 hours for now because a have a combination of light and shade plants. Now that's 7 hours of both HQI and PC together. I am contemplating variuos combinations of PC on/off (morning/midday/evening type senarios) but haven't settled on anything just yet. I know the plants will ultimately grow and do well regardless and most of this are just "minor tweaks". 
Honestly, with only the PCs on, the tank looks a bit dim. It doesn't strike me as enough light to really encourage much growth. It is sufficient for illuminating/just enjoying the layout, but for most layouts/plant combinations, 72watts of light that high above the tank does not do much. Hence, ADA offers fixtures with all various combinations of light types. It's not meant to be a "one size fits all" system. I have the SolarI fixture also, a 150watt HQI 8,000K-only fixture and it's great w/o the PCs. I would think of the PCs when used with HQI as merely supplemental or something used to assist with special interests like simulating a.m., mid-day, p.m. type scenarios. 
The online catalog should be up sometime today and there is a pretty cool little description of the ADA philosophy about the use of HQI as it relates to nature. I will offer all the lighting types/combinations but may not have a pic/price for all of them just yet, but for sure will very soon.


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## TWood

Is the reason for the short photoperiod lighting because the ADA system also relies on those dinky non-refillable CO2 cartridges? Those would make shortening the photoperiod something to consider since conserving CO2 is a big issue. But it seems like a backward approach when we can just use large CO2 tanks and not worry about conserving CO2.

TW


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## pineapple

The ADA product line has a number of CO2 cylinder sizes. The smaller portable-style size is not what they recommend using for the 90cm aquariums.

Reduced photoperiod helps keep algae under control.

Andrew Cribb


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## jsenske

Yes, Andrew is right. I am using a 2liter size CO2 bottle/nice ADA regualtor called "Speed Regulator". The disposable CO2 cartridges will not be available outside of Japan due to shipping/transport issues. I can assure you there is nothing "dinky" about the standard ADA CO2 system. In fact, it is far and away the best quality regulator I've ever used and I've used them all. The stainless-steel "Tower" that houses the CO2 bottle itself is exceedingly cool, IMO. Check the online catalog later today to view it if you like. I don't go for that disposable cartridge concept either. That is something quite specific to Japan/Japanese consumers. I had one on a personal tank (20gallon) for a while and it works just fine, but you need obviously a nearby shop to get more cartridges.


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## TWood

Thanks Jeff/Andrew,

Sorry about the 'dinky' comment but they, well, are. I look forward to reading the rationalization for the photoperiod.

Your store makes a trip down to Houston much more attractive. If you are thinking of an Austin connection I'd suggest AquaTek on Burnet Road. (Not affiliated)

TW


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## fishfry

I just checked your catalog online and I must say it is A LOOOOT cheaper than I was expecting. That is amazing $22 for aquasoil. I am sure I will be purchasing from you shortly.


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## [email protected]

Please tell me u'll be shipping to Canada!!!! And by usps if so!!!!!!


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## neilw

Would you ship to the UK?

Besides that though it's fantastic to be able to actually look through the products in the catalogue.


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## jsenske

Barring any outrageous additional charges for doing so, I will gladly ship to Canada and U.K. If you are aware of any issues regarding shipping such items from here to there, any info. would be appreciated. I will be checking into potential issues as well. Thanks for the interest!

Regarding an earlier question about Green Gain, Phyton-Git, etc. - the dosages are typically just a very few drops per day/per application. A $14.00 bottle from my experience on tanks under 100 gallons would last a long time/be cost effective. I find this to be true of all the ADA liquids. Any one bottle will get youthrough a substantial period. It's not as if you'll be constantly needing to re-order under the usage conditions most users experience (1-3 sub 100 gallon aquariums).


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## Raul-7

Seriously Jeff, do you really believe everything ADA promotes? :wink: I mean how the magnetic impeller of a filter affects bacteria colonization and all that for $700(And I thought Eheims were expensive!). 

I do have questions though, is it true that the substrate hardens after approx. 1 year and you have to start dosing Step 3 to keep it soft? Is it true that AquaSoil is simply for the pH/kH effect and as median to hold the plants(it doesn't provide nutrients), while PowerSand and all the extras added provide all the nutrients?


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## jsenske

I do believe Amano is a honest man and to a least some degree, I do believe in the concepts that ADA promotes. Some of the fine points of the PLOCHER system are a bit new to me and I am researching them at this time. I understand it in theory/philosophy, but don't quite possess the vocabulary to accurately describe it here. Certainly one can grow plants and do amazing aquascapes without it, but it is just one more piece of the puzzle Amano feels he has struck upon. It is not expected that these concepts will be widely accepted in the U.S. at this time, though the Japanese and to a lesser extent the Europeans accept it as sound. 

The cost of the filters have more to do with their construction and quality- all stainless-steel as opposed to plastic of EHEIMS. I love and will contiue to use Eheims, but will aspire to use an ADA fliter on those installations/applications where it fits both needs and budget. I think of the filters as a specialty item, not for everyone. The pricing you have come to know on Eheims is based on then becoming available through online vendors who sell them a near-cost. I am unable to do this with ADA filters at this time. The wholesale cost (before shipping t o U.S.) is actually quite comparable considering some extra for stainless-steel construction. ADA is not necessarily gouging on the price. I'm just having to tack on margins that put it a bit high to be able to offer it at all. This whole venture for me deals most specifically with the substrate/making it available to everyone. lighting, some of the glass items and liquids also. The other items will just be there for those who care to purchase.


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## jsenske

Also, regarding the substrate- Aqua Soil does not harden after 1 year any more than is assumed any other substrate will "harden" after one year. It does not harden in the sense that is would no longer be viable/usable. It is not entirely necessary to use ADA Step 3 to continue to use/grow plants in the Aqua Soil, though it is designed to deal with such issues arising from any substrate over 1 year old. The benefits of AquaSoil are in fact derived from characteristics not pertaining to it harboring/containing "nutrients". I will post some additional info. here later this evening that will make it all clearer. I mean, there are no _less_ nutrients in the Aqua Soil itself than are in Flourite. It's a different _system_ altogether. You would use Power Sand as part of the system, not just for what it does by itself. Sorry for any confusion. I'm still working the content kinks out of the new site. I promise I am not trying t o trick anybody here. Just trying to offer something new and different that (seems to) have some proven good results.


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## jsenske

Please note also that the ADA SUPER-JET ES-600 filter is the model most of us would use on tanks in the 15-60 gallon range and it is (dare I say "only") $360.00. More than some other brands- yes. But just "out-of-your-mind" unreasonable? Not really, IMO. But such matters vary greatly from person to person, indeed.


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## neilw

If you could ship to the uk I would be happy to pay the extra for having something from the ADA brand in use for my tank, that would be fantastic. 

The Polcher System thing seems pretty amazing, I've never heard of it until now but I've read some things online. It would be interesting to see how Mr Amano found about about it and decided to use the system for the ADA filters.


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## jsenske

I would definitely be willing to ship to the UK. The Placher System is related to the PENAC products also. Philosophically, my take on these products is that they are legitimate and bring forth a sort of holistic improvement to the water and therby the whole system/function of the various processes occurring in a closed ecosystem such such as a planted tank. I think these products operate on a level that may be hard to perfectly analyze to the uninclined mind, but I am willing to believe that there are forces at work relating to life processes that I don't know and don't really personally care to know EXACTLY how they are working. I know that rationale does not work for everyone and I can definitely understand any skepticism about these types of products/claims. Fortunately, we know that it is still possible to create beautiful, healthy, thriving planted aquariums without using such products. Like I've said before, I think along his aquascaping journey, Amano has discovered some things- seen some processes- met some people- that many of us have not. In that process, he has found things that are merely pieces of the puzzle- things that make it just a little bit easier to think less about water chemistry, dosing and technical issues- and more about aquascaping and creativity. Though, trust me, I know the technical stuff/figuring it out, etc. is what a lot of folks like about the hobby. For me personally, I'm not really into the science as much, I love to aquascape. Anything I can do to make that easier from the science/technical aspect, I'm interested in.


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## neilw

Well yes, I mean certainly what I have read about the system it seems really interesting. It makes sense that because Amano has built up this business and approach he has thought about the techniques behind the aquariums he designs, while I am in no doubt as to his skill as an artist (which is amazing) he also clearly knows the technical aspects of such as well. I mean I'd never heard or read about c japonica or riccia tied on rocks before, to name but two things. Now in my favourite LFS they sell 'Amano' shrimp, so to me that's a pretty far reaching impact he's had. I just wish the planted tank approach were more popular in the UK, and people were aware of what can be done by people like Amano. I swear if aquatics shops had nature aqauriums in them they'd sell a lot more plants and equipment.


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## Piscesgirl

Although I am not prepared to pay $360 right now for a filter, when I bought my 55 gallon a year and a half ago, I spent $230+ on a Wet/Dry hang on filter that sits in my other room in "time out." It was the biggest piece of junk/waste of money I've ever spent. If I could have had the opportunity to buy the ADA one at that time, I would have. I was trying to get the best for what my money could buy (and was given poor advice). Actually, I purchased about 4 pumps to go with the filter as well, so that probably added another $80+.... ughh.


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## TWood

Is it Platcher, Polcher, or Plotcher?

TW


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## jsenske

Sorry for the typo- it's PLOCHER. Related product is PENAC.


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## jppurchase

"The tank is the 90cm (same dimensions as a U.S. 58 gallon-36"X18"X18").
The substrate is all ADA - Power Sand, a highly pourous peat-coated bottom layer. On top of that is Bacter 100- a bacteria and enzyme supplement containing over 100 different microorganisms in a dormant state- Clear Super- a powder-grade carbon to polish water and absorb excess organic substances and also help promote the proliferation of nitrifying bacteria. Also added is Toumaline BC- a mineral compound of iron, aluminum, sodium, boron, lithium and magnesium. These minerals are gradually dissolved and enrich the water (and roots) of important elements. The whole mix is topped with ADA AQUA SOIL- here I have used the "Amazonia" variety."

Jeff, could you tell us how much Power Sand and Aqua Soil you used for that 36"<18"X18" tank? There are very few, if any references as to how much ought to be used in a tank.

Thanks

James Purchase
Toronto


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## tankgrrl

Here's info on the Plocher system I found on the French distributer's website (automated translation):

http://translate.google.com/transla...ient=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official


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## tankgrrl

Here's info on the Plocher system I found on the French distributer's website (automated translation):

http://translate.google.com/transla...ient=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official


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## jsenske

James, 
There is another FORUM at the very bottom of th FORUM list page named Aquarium Design Group. There are many posts/threads going there and the info you requested is there on one of them also. I am soon adding all such info. to the ADA product website also for quick, easy reference. Look for it by next week+other info. and further product description. I also now have translated some interesting ADA philosophy type info.- related to where the concepts/product development comes from in nature. Here it is for the 90cm tank (approx. U.S. 58 gallon):

POWER SAND- 3- 2 liter bags (6 liters total)
AQUA SOIL- 3 - 9 liter bags (27 liters total)

CLEAR SUPER- 9 spoons (the small spoon included- looks like about 1/4 teaspoon per)
BACTER 100- 9 spoons
TOURMALINE BC- 20 spoons
PENAC P (for plants)- 3 spoons (same spoon/size)


----------



## plantbrain

jsenske said:


> Regarding the AQUA SOIL- by no means does it need to be changed out every year. Amano himself has it tanks going on 3+ years now. I can assure you that is a myth. As well, 3 or so of the last 5 AQUA JOURNALS focus was on long-term maintenance and on designing layouts specifically to be maintained for a long period of time (2+ years).


After 6-12 months, using CO2 etc, the amount of nutrients and capacity is exhausted and every method then relies on the _water column _for nutrient sources or, you must replace the substrate. Does not matter what type of method you chose. Elves do not come in and add nutrients late at night. If you have growth rates, the source _must_ come from somewhere. There is simply no magic about substrates there.

I can say the same thing about plain sand and RFUG's. I used them for 10 years with success on every type of plant.
I started doing that many years ago.

I've used leonardite, peat, soil, ADA substrates, plain old sand, cat litter, all sorts of ferts and god knows what else.

Even highly rich substrates, far richer than ADA's do not possess enough nutrient capacity beyond 12 months. If you slow the growth rates down as well like in non CO2 tanks, you still end up with the same issue(best case senario). Then denitrifyers remove the NO3, NH4 is converted to NO3=> so there will be significant losses there with respect to N.

I liked the soft texture initially, but this decomposes more easily.
Well, you'll see. Stuff looks good in the beginning though.

Bacteria + the peat that is on them/in their products is not much different than the mulm peat I add. I just don't sell it, but I do freely suggest it. Mulm is not dormant, it is fully active, cannot get better than that. If you want dormant, dry the mulm out and add later. Same deal.

Acitvated Carbon is activated carbon.
Lights look nice. I have done a similar split on the timing, I talked to Jeff about this in Nov.

I'd be very very careful when listening to support regarding color temps and measurements in the field. Variations on light intensity and color and spectrum varying by several orders of magnitude in natural environments depending on location, microenvironments, turbidity(which changes daily, seasonally), water levels, most plants are amphibous(so how do you think that influences this data? Substrates?) much of the year.

This is why a good study that address these issues by a researcher is useful and a single point measurement of say the water column is not particular enlightening. Kasslemann gave lots of data on water and this suggested plants prefer nothing in the wate rcolumn, but the plants were growing well in nutrient rich substrate. Measuring the pore water from these substrates would be much more useful.

I do field research and will for the next 50 years, they are selling you, not giving you scientific data. If you look further into this data and the methods used to gather it, you can have a more critical assessment.

I will never tell you that ADA soil has "*power*" in it.
I like Amano a lot personally though.

Some don't care about that, they want ADA no matter what
But keep in mind, the method does not make the aquascape/r.
That skill is learned. ADA and the Journal is great for that and the excellent photography is good as well.

Glad to see folks using smaller branches in their scapes finally!

BTW the PLOCHER stuff, I think the over all approach is wise, working with nature is better than fighting it.

Not sure about some of their vibrational energy stuff. Sounds very hokey. 
We got plenty of those folks in CA already.

Try buying all the land around Clear lake, CA and the tell hillbillies to get sewage treatment plants in TN

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## plantbrain

jsenske said:


> Regarding the AQUA SOIL- by no means does it need to be changed out every year. Amano himself has it tanks going on 3+ years now. I can assure you that is a myth. As well, 3 or so of the last 5 AQUA JOURNALS focus was on long-term maintenance and on designing layouts specifically to be maintained for a long period of time (2+ years).


After 6-12 months, using CO2 etc, the amount of nutrients and capacity is exhausted and every method then relies on the _water column _for nutrient sources or, you must replace the substrate. Does not matter what type of method you chose. Elves do not come in and add nutrients late at night. If you have growth rates, the source _must_ come from somewhere. There is simply no magic about substrates there.

I can say the same thing about plain sand and RFUG's. I used them for 10 years with success on every type of plant.
I started doing that many years ago.

I've used leonardite, peat, soil, ADA substrates, plain old sand, cat litter, all sorts of ferts and god knows what else.

Even highly rich substrates, far richer than ADA's do not possess enough nutrient capacity beyond 12 months. If you slow the growth rates down as well like in non CO2 tanks, you still end up with the same issue(best case senario). Then denitrifyers remove the NO3, NH4 is converted to NO3=> so there will be significant losses there with respect to N.

I liked the soft texture initially, but this decomposes more easily.
Well, you'll see. Stuff looks good in the beginning though.

Bacteria + the peat that is on them/in their products is not much different than the mulm peat I add. I just don't sell it, but I do freely suggest it. Mulm is not dormant, it is fully active, cannot get better than that. If you want dormant, dry the mulm out and add later. Same deal.

Acitvated Carbon is activated carbon.
Lights look nice. I have done a similar split on the timing, I talked to Jeff about this in Nov.

I'd be very very careful when listening to support regarding color temps and measurements in the field. Variations on light intensity and color and spectrum varying by several orders of magnitude in natural environments depending on location, microenvironments, turbidity(which changes daily, seasonally), water levels, most plants are amphibous(so how do you think that influences this data? Substrates?) much of the year.

This is why a good study that address these issues by a researcher is useful and a single point measurement of say the water column is not particular enlightening. Kasslemann gave lots of data on water and this suggested plants prefer nothing in the wate rcolumn, but the plants were growing well in nutrient rich substrate. Measuring the pore water from these substrates would be much more useful.

I do field research and will for the next 50 years, they are selling you, not giving you scientific data. If you look further into this data and the methods used to gather it, you can have a more critical assessment.

I will never tell you that ADA soil has "*power*" in it.
I like Amano a lot personally though.

Some don't care about that, they want ADA no matter what
But keep in mind, the method does not make the aquascape/r.
That skill is learned. ADA and the Journal is great for that and the excellent photography is good as well.

Glad to see folks using smaller branches in their scapes finally!

BTW the PLOCHER stuff, I think the over all approach is wise, working with nature is better than fighting it.

Not sure about some of their vibrational energy stuff. Sounds very hokey. 
We got plenty of those folks in CA already.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## Piscesgirl

Calcium carbonate and Quartz? Well, my whole 5 acres could be a quartz mine and I add calcium carbonate to my very soft water -- does that count  I would love to know that it all works...but quartz and calcium carbonate???? Or, is it just trouble with the translation?


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## TWood

"Its system is based on unknown energies scientifically."

"I think these products operate on a level that may be hard to perfectly analyze to the uninclined mind, but I am willing to believe that there are forces at work relating to life processes that I don't know and don't really personally care to know EXACTLY how they are working."

Down this road lay madness.

TW


----------



## jsenske

Of what madness do you speak, sir TW? 

I know, I know. These products are not for everyone and by no means necessity to do great work. Like I said, they are but a link in the chain- a piece of the puzzle- something else to try if one is so inclined. Many are curious- some just enjoy discussing this stuff. File under: "if you don't want it, don't buy it".


----------



## TWood

> Of what madness do you speak, sir TW?


In a single word: Superstition.

TW


----------



## MiamiAG

*updated the first post with set up images*


----------



## plantbrain

Rather than going back and forth, test it. 
Then you know the answer, or have a decent support for your opinion other than anecdotal like cables. 
There's a likely hood of nutrients being in there(NH4/NO3/PO4/K/Traces for sure).
Nutrients to support plant growth *MUST* come from some where. What goes in must come out. If nothing is being added to the water column, then ..........there's only one other place it can be.
This is a simple 2 box model. In = out. 
Nutrients in= plant growth out

Tap water............Amano has never addrssed to my knowledge on this issue nor said what's in their's nor said anything about it with other folk's tap etc.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## TWood

plantbrain said:


> Tap water............Amano has never addrssed to my knowledge on this issue nor said what's in their's nor said anything about it with other folk's tap etc.


I've wondered the same about -your- tapwater and those frequent large water changes. Our tapwater is treated with chloramine, 9.8 pH out of the tap, and right now it's pretty cold. For a large show tank with fish in it too, making those big water changes isn't feasible, unless I'm missing something. (Don't suggest a pre-treatment holding tank, it's a show tank in a living space.)

TW


----------



## jsenske

I have a special filter I attach to the faucet that instantly neutralizes chlorine. Been using it for about 12 years now. On a 30% water change I don't find a little cold water to much of a problem. Tap may get a bit colder there in Austin/ other cities. Most of the time it's an option for us to hook-up to a kitchen or bathroom sink and we mix a little hot water in to take the edge off. Been doing it for years with no issues. I have not touched abottle of dechlorinator in 5-6 years. 
On an established tank, 30-40% water change doesn't seem to throw pH/hardness, etc. too out of whack. Honestly I don't pay a great deal of attention to that stuff personally. I decided long ago that if I could not do planted tanks using my existing water supply, I would not really do them at all (on a business level anyway). I love aqascaping and am not so crazy about science/water testing/trying to figure out and control every last thing. From my experience, planted tanks eventually settle-in and and a balance is achieved. This is part of the reason I am so drawn to the ADA products/namely substrate :drinkers: - it deals with so many of these issues right away- early on on the life of the aquascape- so you worry less about potential problems and can focus more on aquascaping and creativity.


----------



## TWood

Well, same here in essence. I do 20% water changes straight from the tap and never had a problem either. (Austin uses -chloramine- not -chlorine- but the idea is the same.) I installed a permanent 'T', flexhose, and ball valve connecting to the cold side under the second story bathroom sink near my 90 gallon. So mixing with warm water isn't possible, unless I add a second 'T' to the hot side and then 'T' the two flexible connections back together, with a third ball valve.... Nah, I'll just stay with smaller changes.

Which was my point about TBarr's estimative index method. It relies on comparatively large water changes that introduces that new set of issues.

Not to wander too far here, but there's a conspiracy theory guy named David Icke who can sound very convincing. You're almost ready to give him the benefit of the doubt, when he trots out the theory that the world's elite are actually a race of alien reptiles.

http://www.reptilianagenda.com/research/r110199o.shtml

Then all credibility is gone. So when I see references to 'unknown energies scientifically' in regards to a single ADA product, I get a brain twitch that makes me unwilling to make any leap of faith on the remainder of the product line. ... [-X :drinkers: [-X ... I'm not saying the products don't work, but the sales pitch ain't working, for -me-.

TW


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## jsenske

That's cool. All I can say to that is- to each his own. One person/product can't be all things to all people and I understand your position. I am just trying to offer something new and (seemingly) progressive to the hobby- not trying to trick anybody.


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## Urkevitz

So have there been any setbacks since setup? Bye the way I really enjoy your work.


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## Ricky Cain

TWood said:


> Then all credibility is gone. So when I see references to 'unknown energies scientifically' in regards to a single ADA product, I get a brain twitch that makes me unwilling to make any leap of faith on the remainder of the product line. ... [-X :drinkers: [-X ... I'm not saying the products don't work, but the sales pitch ain't working, for -me-.
> 
> TW


You should really see someone about that twitch or move on to another thread which would probably provide instant relief. I wouldn't look at any AquaJournals, Amano related websites or engage in ADA/Amano threads. Whatever you do don't buy any ADA stuff because that will just exasperate the problem.

\/ Your health has to come before your hobby!


----------



## jsenske

Urkevitz, 
Thanks! The only setback is one that kept me from posting any update pics last week which I has intended to do: 
We had a lady with 2 young kids come into the gallery in the middle of the afternoon when neither Mike nor myself were around. Apparently the kids were extremely ill-behaved and running around the place full playgound style. We have a new receptionist and she was not as well versed (my fault) in how to deal with this situation, so these kids- not adequately supervised by mom- grabbed the tops of the wood that are above the water surface and moved them all around- effectively wrecking the hardscape. I don't care to re-live my repsonse when I saw this here on this forum, but it was not pretty. I spent the next 3 hours working it as "back into place" as I could. I got it close, but there are some "issue areas" right now. I feel, however, these areas will become less of a problem as the layout matures and fills in these gaps. 
I must do some trimming of stem plant sections today and will probably go ahead and shoot it beforehand- just to show what is for me anyway- remarkable progress for a only 3 1/2 week old layout. 
Overall plant health/growth, algae, or water condition-wise...absolutely no set-backs at all so far. From the beginning, both tanks I did with ADA subtrate have had a reaaly awesome pace to them. I will post a few shots of a super-simple iwagumi-style 20 gal. long I did with the POWDER-TYPE Aqua-Soil at home.


----------



## plantbrain

TWood said:


> plantbrain said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tap water............Amano has never addrssed to my knowledge on this issue nor said what's in their's nor said anything about it with other folk's tap etc.
> 
> 
> 
> I've wondered the same about -your- tapwater and those frequent large water changes. Our tapwater is treated with chloramine, 9.8 pH out of the tap, and right now it's pretty cold. For a large show tank with fish in it too, making those big water changes isn't feasible, unless I'm missing something. (Don't suggest a pre-treatment holding tank, it's a show tank in a living space.)
> 
> TW
Click to expand...

I've had tap ranging from 
KH: 0 to 12
GH= 1 to 24
PO4= 0 to 1.2
NO3= 0 to 20ppm

Over the years. I have clients that have radically different water parameters than I have at home.

So I have plenty of experiences with that issue.
German and Dutch water sources and many in Europe have high NO3/PO4 and rich CO2, lower lighting.
Adding K+, traces and doing large water changes allows them to grow weeds without adding KNO3/KH2PO4 etc.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Raul-7

Jeff, would you willing to do a controlled experiment with some of the common substrates found in the US vs ADA's substrate system? It'll probably convince people to invest in ADA's substrates if it impresses, me included! :wink:


----------



## plantbrain

jsenske said:


> Urkevitz,
> Thanks! The only setback is one that kept me from posting any update pics last week which I has intended to do:
> We had a lady with 2 young kids come into the gallery in the middle of the afternoon when neither Mike nor myself were around. Apparently the kids were extremely ill-behaved and running around the place full playgound style. We have a new receptionist and she was not as well versed (my fault) in how to deal with this situation, so these kids- not adequately supervised by mom- grabbed the tops of the wood that are above the water surface and moved them all around- effectively wrecking the hardscape. I don't care to re-live my repsonse when I saw this here on this forum, but it was not pretty. I spent the next 3 hours working it as "back into place" as I could. I got it close, but there are some "issue areas" right now. I feel, however, these areas will become less of a problem as the layout matures and fills in these gaps.
> I must do some trimming of stem plant sections today and will probably go ahead and shoot it beforehand- just to show what is for me anyway- remarkable progress for a only 3 1/2 week old layout.
> Overall plant health/growth, algae, or water condition-wise...absolutely no set-backs at all so far. From the beginning, both tanks I did with ADA subtrate have had a reaaly awesome pace to them. I will post a few shots of a super-simple iwagumi-style 20 gal. long I did with the POWDER-TYPE Aqua-Soil at home.


Jeff, that's why you should keep piranha and electric eel as your main display fish

Keeps the hands out.

I've been able to produce the same type of health and growth as Amano, many have actually, so the product may not be the key, but it might help some.

What interest me is the method and why it works, I don't care who's or any of that, folks seem to place others on pedestals without looking critically at the issue.

Anyone that says "blah" is a bad guy, this is a two way street, some folks defend me when I'm not in need nor care, and I attack some issues and folks think I'm partial or somehow all baised.

Sorry, I'm trained to sniff BS and bite hard. If you can support the issue without being all personal, cool, I'll engauge, but wing nuts on some personal semantic quest to troll and flame......need not apply.

I've found all methods work for the same reason, the rate of growth may change, but the reason a plant grows well does not.

There is more than one way to skin a cattail.

But this section is aquascaping...........not whether a system works or not, 
I think Amano's aquascaping does work and works well.
And this is a larger help to the hobby in many respects than understanding why algae grows or not, that is an academic issue.......because it shows what can be done in respect to the art.

The hairgrass should fill in nicely, damn weed

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## jsenske

Indeed, Mr. Barr, you are a wise man and we all respect your insights immensely. No straight-up BS to be found with ADA substrate. This PENAC, perhaps, yes, though I wil use it out of my own curiousity. The ADA substrate system is but another approach. Just because 2 things work well doesn't mean only 1 should be available. It's all about options in a sense. Me personally- I wouldn't be doing this in the way or on the level I am if it weren't for Amano. You are a rare breed and are probably among a very few that would be doing what you are doing anyway even without Amano influence. To those ends I am personally intrigued and feel compelled to deem credible and worthwhile the offerings of the man to our field. He has dealt with the issues of aquascaping- not just plant-growing- on a level that few others can match, so I choose to trust that he has particular insight that gives his stuff an edge. I've said time and again, ADA is not the only way, just a unique way that is backed up time and again. 
I'm no salesman, just trying to kick it up a notch here in the US. I am well prepared for this venture to not work due to the unwieldy influence of the naysayers. If so, so be it- but I will go down having tried my best, to be sure. "If you don't want it don't buy it". At least give folks a chance to try it, though. Remember many of us want the stuff because it's cool, it's neat, it's different, it has it's own philosophy and appeal. Just like people spend money on other hobbies for trick parts or cool extras or things they just like for a whole variety of reasons other than simply because "it works" or "it's the most practical choice" or "it's what everyone else uses anyway". I've never thought this line would be for everyone, but it - or some version of it - one day could be.


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## Ricky Cain

Raul-7 said:


> Jeff, would you willing to do a controlled experiment with some of the common substrates found in the US vs ADA's substrate system? It'll probably convince people to invest in ADA's substrates if it impresses, me included! :wink:


Tom,

Didn't you say you were going do this experiment?


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## fishfry

so much drama, haha


curious to see what your other tank looks like Jeff


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## Its me

Hi,

So here´s my take on this: great tanks with excelent growth and plants health can be achieved without using ADA products. We all know there was aquatic plant life before Amano start selling his products.
Anyway, from what i hear from friends who are trying ADA products(substrat mainly) they told me exactly what Jeff described here: ADA products "speed up" some issues you have in tank in the beginning of setup and give you more time to focus in other things such as aquascaping.

Thats it. Only that. Once again: great tanks can be done without ADA stuff, we aware of it. Not a miracle or something similar will happen in tank; but surely will leave more time for you too focus on other things. I am also trying an ADA substrat, tank was setup about 10 days ago i guess its too early to tell, but i will post results on Equipment topic to share with you all how´s it going.

Best Regards


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## plantbrain

Ricky Cain said:


> Raul-7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jeff, would you willing to do a controlled experiment with some of the common substrates found in the US vs ADA's substrate system? It'll probably convince people to invest in ADA's substrates if it impresses, me included! :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> Tom,
> 
> Didn't you say you were going do this experiment?
Click to expand...

Yep, we know there's high amounts of NH4, like a jobes stick or potting soil etc.

It all gets down to the basic nutrients, that's what plants use.

So we would expect to have the same results if we added that to kitty litter etc.

If not, then why not..............if so, this confirms the hypothesis etc.

I want to see if the ADA stuff can be amplied as well.
Adding mulm and peat should enhance it and help cycling it better than bacteria in a bottle ever will.

Things like that cannot be bottled or sold really but certainly help everyone and every product and method.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantella

Hello APC members and all interested people,

The last weeks I notice the lively conversation about the ADA products.

I want to pass on my experience I made with this products, maybe this information would help you a little bit.

In 1998 the ADA Europe Corp. (Italy) started the selling from the ADA products. In this time I was the manager of a big retailer pet store. As one of the first stores in Germany I start now the selling of the ADA products. And the using.

On of my absolutely favourite was the ground system. The different kind of Aqua Soils including the Power Sand system. The Power Sand was porous natural material (like small Lavastones) with different sizes depends on the tank size you want set up. Bigger material size for higher tanks.

The AquaSoil was an amazing product. Not only the effect on the water conditions, I think there was enough post about this topic. I use very much sorts of gravel&#8230;and I work at this business since 16years&#8230;but I never touch a "gravel" like this. This soil feels and smells very naturally&#8230;ok this is not a reason to buy a product&#8230;but for me this was a strong impression.

A big fortune when you set up a tank with AquaSoil you don't need wash them before using so you can style very nice dry set up with it (especially for rock-works very usefully). After filling the water I had never a dirty water . Please never (never) wash the soil&#8230;and never&#8230;never&#8230;with hot water this was the dead for the soil.

I had removed AquaSoil (Amazonia) from a 600 Liter tank, about 3 year after the set up. And about 90% from the soil was in the same solid form like at the beginning. The most of the soil don't disintegrate. I washed the soil safety with COLD water and dry it. After them I use it again in an other new tank. Over the old AquaSoil I make a small layer (0,5-1cm) new AquaSoil , so there was no risk that some small particle come up. The plants in this tank grows very well.

When you put in your plants in the AquaSoil you can notice another fortune: the big density (denseness) of the soil. Ideal for planting all kind of plants, especially stem and foreground plant are hold strong between the soil and don't remove from the bottom after filling or days later.

&#8230;.this was only a small report about only one ADA product.

I try to add more product reports and experience in the next time, little by little because write down this posts takes a lot of time for me&#8230;writing in English not even easy for me.

Best regards,

Oliver 
www.plantella.com


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## Phil Edwards

Thank you for the experience Oliver. Your English is MUCH better than my German. "Sprechen sie doch langam, bitte. Mein Deutsch ist nicht so gut." is what I end up saying most when speaking German with someone. 

Best Regards,
Phil


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## pineapple

Oliver, Thanks for the good input.

Your gallery is looking interesting these days. It seems you are trying some unconventional styles - maybe your client's comands? - it's a great gallery to learn from.

Happy New Year!! Glückliches Neues Jahr!!

Andrew Cribb


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## gnatster

Thanks Oliver, great to hear another point of view from an experienced user.


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## plantella

Phil: Not bad, I didn't know that you speak German....great :lol: 

Andrew: Thanks very much, the other (new) styles wasn't the wish from my custromer. I wan't to try something new layout styles...but that's not easy when you are be stuck in the normal thought process...more risk for new ideas...it was more experimental

gnatster: your welcome 8)


----------



## Raul-7

Oliver, have you tried Aquasoil alone(without PowerSand or any other additives)? I'm not sure, but what I heard is that AquaSoil is simply for the pH/kH, and visual affect..while all the nutrients come from the PS. 

What other base ferts have you tried with success?


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## jsenske

I'm curious to hear Oliver's reply too, but I can tell you that the nutrients come from the POWER SAND and not the AQUA SOIL. There's a bit more info. that's been added on this on the website.


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## Gomer

This is rather strange as when I was having lunch with Amano, we were talking about how Amazonia was special somehow in that it supplies nutrients and tanks that use amazonia as opposed to his other aquasoil tanks don't need nearly as much fertalization. You could confirm this with Ricky Cain and Ben Belton as they were there too.


----------



## jsenske

I just consulted a bit w/ Luis Navarro on this also as he had dialog with Amano along similar topics and primarily the nutrient source is going to be the POWER SAND, whereas the AQUA SOIL is providing the buffering and softening benefits. I believe due to the processing methods of Aqua Soil it has some nutrient value, but not significant enough to be relied upon solely for substrate-based nutrition. I think Amano was trying to say that tanks with AMAZONIA-type are requiring less overall liquid fertilization likely because of their overall improved conditions resulting from the buffering/softening and faster "foothold" the plants obtain. They are showing fewer signs of distress and therefore don't need supplementation so readily.


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## Raul-7

What if you already have soft water? If AquaSoil makes your water soft, won't that possibly cause Mg and Ca deficiencies? Or does Amano's fertilizers contain both?


----------



## plantella

> I just consulted a bit w/ Luis Navarro on this also as he had dialog with Amano along similar topics and primarily the nutrient source is going to be the POWER SAND, whereas the AQUA SOIL is providing the buffering and softening benefits. I believe due to the processing methods of Aqua Soil it has some nutrient value, but not significant enough to be relied upon solely for substrate-based nutrition. I think Amano was trying to say that tanks with AMAZONIA-type are requiring less overall liquid fertilization likely because of their overall improved conditions resulting from the buffering/softening and faster "foothold" the plants obtain. They are showing fewer signs of distress and therefore don't need supplementation so readily.


I think this was the basically right explanation (oh...English is not easy sometimes). I'am sure too that the nurient came from the POWER SAND. But there must be a reason that the plant grow a little bit more faster (or stronger) in different AQUA SOIL types. In know from the ADA Gallery in Niigata they use everytime the AMAZONIA in showtanks...(also for a better general impression)...but the plant grow faster in this Soil type...then it comes the MALAYA...then AFRICANA...when I remember it right. The different was not gigantic only a little bit.

Raul-7: I also use AQUA SOIL with ohter nutrient bottom (like from Dennerle, Sera, JBL...) but in combination with POWER SAND it was more sucessful.

....my experience with the ADA fertilizer coming soon...now I must go to work 

Oliver
www.plantella.com


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## plantella

To describe my experience with the ADA fertilizer in English is not easy for me.

Let me say one thing before: I'am convince of the philosophy and the products from ADA. I like the quality and details of the products. The design. The passion. I saw (personally) how high was the quality check of the products - they check every aquarium when they get them from the manufacture about 15 Minutes: clean it absolutely, check every pane of possible scratches , professional and secure packing. This was only an example this high standard run to all the ADA products.
Every aquarium tank they set up at the ADA Gallery and at private customers the staff keep a diary. With all notice about algae, fertilizer, water change, plant growing, etc.. . They have so many practical experience what they slip in the product development. 
And if you know how many aquarium tank Mr.Amano had set up till know, you can believe me they have many data they can use: about 3.000 pieces. 8)

Every ADA products are like small gearwheels, they take effect together and build a function machine...I hope you understand my dictionary English.

I don't want scrutinize every ADA fertilizer or other ADA product: What is the secret ? What are the contents ? Does it really have effect ? ....

I'am more a practical person and I had the possible to use the most available products many years know. My result: They works very good.

My most successfully aquarium are build up with the AquaSoil and PowerSand system (for example my winning AGA tank 2004). With the Brigthy fertilizer series I have the least problems with algae in my tanks and very nice and healthy plant grow.

This is only my opinion about the ADA products, I only can advise you:
*Go and see for yourself !*

Best regards,

Oliver
www.plantella.com[/u]


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## jsenske

Thanks for insights and opinions Oliver. You are among the few that post who has had such extensive experience with the products, namely substrate. 

Keep an eye peeled for update photos of the 90cm ADA tank at ADG Gallery.


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## Administrator

First post updated with recent pictures.


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## bober83

*Great Tank*

I live in Houston, Texas and know the Senske's personally and the Amano Tank is better in person. But the pictures are still great. The tank leaves you breathless.


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## neilw

amazing, absolutely marvellous tank.


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## plantella

Jeff,

your tank grow very well...that's the one of the reason I love this hobby, see the develop of a nice planted tank. Great !

Best regards,

Oliver
www.plantella.com


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## jsenske

Thanks. It has a way to go still...obviously. Especially the stemmed plants- I have had to trim them quite a bit due to rapid growth. I have been sort of staggering the trimming of groups trying to keep some composition to the tank since people see it all the time here in the gallery. Now, though, I will let them get a tad unruly then trim them all at once- really level them- to the shape I want. Even Amano says a layout needs 3 months to be initially realized, so I feel pretty good so far with this tank being at only 5 1/2 - 6 weeks. It's just been so easy with the ADA system. Really no issues to speak of other than some ill-behaved kids wrecking my hardscape a few weeks ago!


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## dmartin72

What kind of camera and lense combo are you using?



jsenske said:


> Thanks. It has a way to go still...obviously. Especially the stemmed plants- I have had to trim them quite a bit due to rapid growth. I have been sort of staggering the trimming of groups trying to keep some composition to the tank since people see it all the time here in the gallery. Now, though, I will let them get a tad unruly then trim them all at once- really level them- to the shape I want. Even Amano says a layout needs 3 months to be initially realized, so I feel pretty good so far with this tank being at only 5 1/2 - 6 weeks. It's just been so easy with the ADA system. Really no issues to speak of other than some ill-behaved kids wrecking my hardscape a few weeks ago!


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## jsenske

First off let me apologize for the low-quality of the recently submitted update photos. I did them quickly and they are not my best work. 

I currently shoot with a Nikon D100 (DSLR). I believe I was using the Nikon AF-S 12-24mm 1:4 DX ultra-wide angle zoom. It's my favorite. Super quality and the wide angle I find really comes in handy when shooting aquascapes/tank & room-shots. For shooting aquariums I also have a Tamron 28-75mm 1:2.8 XR Di macro that is awesome for tighter shots and close-ups. 
I'm a Nikon man all the way and am really looking forward tp upgrading to the newly released Nikon D2X (12mp DSLR). Hot Hot Hot!!


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## Overfloater

Jeff,

Are you going to completely lop off the top of the stems and try to get a fuller bush or do you plan to top and replant? Obviously an impressive tank. Your skill is readily apparent.


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## fishfry

Overfloater said:


> Jeff,
> 
> Are you going to completely lop off the top of the stems and try to get a fuller bush or do you plan to top and replant? Obviously an impressive tank. Your skill is readily apparent.


Good question...I am curious as well, as I am still developing my pruning skills


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## jsenske

Thanks so much!
I trim the tops of the stemmed plants- either leveling them or trimming at an angle for the desired shape. I am not much into replanting tops until I have done several rounds of major trimming and the bottoms are getting really leggy or taking way yoo long to grow back in. From my experience, with most species of stemmed plants, after about the 6-7 big trimmings you need to do some hard analysis of how to proceed- whether to trim more or go ahead and replant- or even phase in a new species in that location. I am hoping with some of the ADA "aquascaping-specific" small dose liquid supplements (GREEN GAIN, PHYTON-GIT, etc.) you get a little more time with any given species/it grows back in fuller/nicer over the long-term. I definitely would rather trim than replant tops any day.


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## Overfloater

Jeff,

I appreciate your insight into the trimming question. It's good to have someone with as much experience as you, share their thoughts on such matters.

If you go as many trimmings as you say, I'd imagine the plants would grow quite an elaborate root system. How do you avoid damaging an aquascape if you decide to remove the plant in lieu of another species?


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## aphy

Hello Jeff,

It looks wonderful what you have done with the 3' tank. I'm also very keen on the ADA products as I understand a certain lfs will be bringing them in February. My question is, my existing planted tank of 2' already has a river substrate. Should I discard the whole lot to accommodate ADA's power sand? I'm concerned that a lot of the nitrifying bacteria will be stripped away. 

Will it be detrimental to my plants, although I still harbour some of the good bacteria in my canister filter? Which diffuser would you recommend is right for my 2'?

Thanks, Pauline.


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## neilw

It'd be nice to see another shot like this one quality and composure wise http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forum/images/ADA90cm2day1.jpg

so we can compare and contrast


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## jsenske

Bob, 
You just have to be very careful/use a little feel and some common sense. I'll really take my time removing bare stem-bottoms and accompanying roots. Sometimes just one-by-one, very gently. Patience. 
Pauline, 
If I were going to switch to ADA substrate, I would remove all the old/existing substrate and plan a new aquascape altogether. The idea of mixing it in or adding it to an established aquascape sounds a little tricky and I just don't think you'd fully reap the benefits in the end. Perhaps it is feasible but it's just not an approach I am familiar with/advise for the case your mantioning here. 
As for the bacteria question, incorporating some from your existing filter would be a fine option. I don't personally like to just switch an old filter to a new tank without cleaning it. My preference is to start each new layout from the beginning with everthing clean and fresh. 
Remember also with the ADA substrate system it is recommended you use BACTER 100 between the AQUA SOIL and POWER SAND layers in order to seed the substrate right away with good bacteria/microbes/enzymes. Also you can choose the POWER SAND SPECIAL which has the BACTER 100 already added to it.


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## Its me

Hi Jeff,

I hope im not asking something that was already asked here, but at least i couldnt find on another posts; have you been adding any liquid fertilizer to this tank ? If so, wich one?

Best Regards
Miguel


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## jsenske

Yes, I have been using the Green Brighty STEP ONE and Brighty K. STEP ONE is add every-other-day or so and Brighty K twice a week or so. 
At 3 months period I will move to Green Brighty STEP TWO.


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## Gomer

Isnt it recommended on the bottle to dose Brighty Green daily? Any reason for switching it up?


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## arellanon

I LOVE the way that looks! I'm going to do a similiar thing when I set up my next tank! Thanks for the inspiration!


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## jsenske

It is recommended that STEP ONE be dosed daily on package instructions, but it does also advise that you should adjust somewhat to the particular needs of your layout. Honestly the growth has been so good and overall health impression of the layout has been so strong that I just have not felt it necessary to dose everyday yet. I am just now starting to increase the dosage frequency somewhat. There is always going to be a feel/intuition component to dosing liquids and it's no different really with the ADA system. I can certainly imagine a layout scenario where one would dose more heavily from the beginning. This particular layout really runs the gamut of plant types- from high-light stem plants and grasses/Blyxa to shade/lower light Anubias and crypts, so I think a more measured approach to the dosing is fitting here.


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## joe23455

jsenske said:


> Regarding the AQUA SOIL- by no means does it need to be changed out every year. Amano himself has it tanks going on 3+ years now. I can assure you that is a myth. As well, 3 or so of the last 5 AQUA JOURNALS focus was on long-term maintenance and on designing layouts specifically to be maintained for a long period of time (2+ years). ".


I guess this is a more general question. How long can a well maintined planted aquarium last before it would need to be "taken down"? I realize this is a difficult question as it is dependent on so many factors (size, plant and fish load etc. But??

Cheers
Joe


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## Gomer

I think tanks can last almost indefinately.

The fert regime will change over time. You will have to replant some of the foreground(no planted foreground is good forever and have it look nice without occasional thinning). Stems will periodically have to be topped and replanted (side shoots only look nice for a few hedgings) ...etc etc.

..but in general, one should be able to keep a scape going long past your interest in that scape LOL


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## jsenske

We have ADG client planted tanks that are now in their 5th year. Those would be the longest I have personally dealt with. They still look quite nice and the clients are happy. On average, most seem ready for something new after 2 years. I personally like to get a tank to it's perfect point, photgraph it, and start thinking about the next layout for that tank. Maybe it's another 6-9 months before that happens, again- on average...depends on so many variables.


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## Overfloater

What happened to the updated pictures?


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## jsenske

Good Question. Art has been assisting with this- perhaps he can fix them. Let me know if I need to send them again.


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## Overfloater

Art, the original updated pics please. Also Jeff, some new updated pics would be splendid.


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## jsenske

Your wish is my command. I will shoot the tank again this week, even though it's not at a "photo-perfect" point right now, you will see the remarkable health and vigor of this not-even-three-month-old layout. 

Another round of trimming is in order this week so I'll shoot it just before doing that. I'm trying to time it so that is might be enterable into ADA Layout Contest this year (deadline April 30), even though the same handful of Japanese masters (that have dominated every year) will probably school everybody once again. Top 100 would be cool, but that's a highly competitive field.


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## Phil Edwards

jsenske said:


> even though the same handful of....masters (that have dominated every year) will probably school everybody once again.


Jeff, is it just me or do you see the irony in this statement too?

If I had to have been schooled, I'm glad it's been by ADG.

Regards,
Phil


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## jsenske

Thanks, Phil, but I am talking about Masashi Ono, Junichi Hanaoka, Isao Oji- I couldn't hold a candle to their aquascaping mastery. IMO, these guys are it, but to me the Japanese style of aquascaping is where it's at so I'm biased. These guys are not just copying Amano either. They are the unsung masters at this time- again, in my opinion. 
Frankly- I might have done OK in AGA contest- and I am proud of that- but I haven't done squat in the ADA contest, and with upwards of 700 entries it has become the true measure in terms of competitions/contests. Oliver's masterworks on the other hand have done very well the past 2 years of ADA contest. I mean anywhere inside the top 50 I would consider excellent. I'm working hard for a strong entry this year, though.


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## tsunami

You forgot Takehiko Honoki, probably one of my all time favorites:




























Back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Carlos


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## jsenske

yes, yes carlos. especially that last tank from the 2004 contest. Just awesome. The sophistocation...it's what I pursue but am yet to achieve. Thanks for that.


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## jsenske

I have submitted some update pics of the 90cm ADA tank to Art for posting- hopefully they are up soon. Once they are I would like to add a few comments/observations on the layout and proposed changes to improve it. 

Posting pics of incomplete layouts gives me that feeling like I'm walking down Main Street in my underwear, but showing the stages and progress of this tank is important. These pics are of the tank as it sits,how it would have looked if you just walked into the gallery- no photo prep whatsoever... something new to me. I usually doll-up layouts quite a bit before shooting.


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## niko

The new pix show up as red X's for me. Anyone with the same problem?

--Nikolay


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## jsenske

I don't think Art has the new pics up yet and the red Xs I think are old posts/pics that were moved around and never got properly restored. Perhaps Art can assist with this. If I need to send the new pics to someone else to post them I can- I just don't know how to add them to that series myself.


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## gnatster

Jeff, feel free to send the pics to me, I will add them


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## gnatster

*Updated Pictures*


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## dmartin72

Wow! That tank has come full circle! It looks firmly established. I am very impressed with your continued growth in the realm of artistic composition. Can you refresh my memory on the lighting set-up you are using?


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## pineapple

If the "soil" is that fertile, and grows plants that fast, we're going to have a crash in plant prices!



> Can you refresh my memory on the lighting set-up you are using


The lighting is an ADA metal halide set up with dual flourescent bulbs. Check this link for further information.

Andrew Cribb


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## Raul-7

It's great to see such impressive results in such a short time. But I must ask, how can you keep Hatchets in an open-setup?



dmartin72 said:


> Can you refresh my memory on the lighting set-up you are using?


It's basically a 2x36w PC/1x150w MH combo fixture. The PC's come on for 10-12 hours, and during this time the MH comes on for 4-6 hours.


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## Gomer

nice and lush indeed  I only wish the hairgrass would stay a little shorter


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## jsenske

Thanks guys!

A few observations in terms of composition:

The hairgrass foregound was a mistake- lesson learned. E. parvulus might have worked, but the excessive height of E.acicularis has become somewhat problematic. It's health and growth has been so much greater than I anticipated as I have always had some difficulty with it in the past- mostly in its conversion from immersed to submersed form. The growth would not be rapid enough and algae would set in and cause problems from there. That is why you don't see much hairgrass in my previous work. I must confess not being too experienced with it and yet was anvxious to use it in this tank as I knew it would do well...it's just done a little TOO well. We'll see how things balance out as the rest of the tank fills in. I will of course try to "play off of" the height of the grass in my decisions about how to trim and treat other plants and sections. Like I say - lesson learned (the hard way of course). I believe it can still work though. 
Also, I have already re-worked the left corner (if you're facing the tank). I removed Ammania multiflora which was leaving the corner too "open" - especially compared with the dense bushiness of Rotala nanjeanshen. It was a classic case of having to work with what you have at the time you do the initial layout- I would have used more Rotala at the beginning, but I only had a very small amount. I knew I wanted to use it though. What's there now has grown from about 10 original stems. After a few rounds of trimming, the yield is sufficient to not only fill in the corner and fulfill my initial intentions, but I have cuttings I have spread to 2 other new layouts- in less than 3 months. That's exceptional, for me anyway. These sorts of changes are pretty typical in my process of getting a tank right where I want it, I am just not used to showing it before final completion! The next shoot should be more true to my original intentions. 

Compositionally, this tank has a good 8 weeks until I believe it will be ready for a full photo shoot. Hopefully all will come together in time to enter ADA 2005 Contest- my goal. 

Regarding light- fixture is ADA GRAND SOLAR which houses 1-150watt HQI 8,000K and 2-36watt PCs, also 8,000K. I love it. 

regarding hatchets- obviously not a good choice. They look so cool in this layout I couldn't resist, but I have already moved them to another tank as 2 jumped out in the first few days they were added. I know better, but impulse got in the way on that one.


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## pineapple

Given optimum conditions, such as those you have there, E. parvula does grow to a very similar height.

Andrew Cribb


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## IUnknown

> It's health and growth has been so much greater than I anticipated as I have always had some difficulty with it in the past- mostly in its conversion from immersed to submersed form.


I've had the same experience.

How are you going to maintain the foreground for another 8 weeks. Do you think its going to get overgrown by then?


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## tsunami

Have you considered giving the hairgrass a hair cut? I do this regularly to my own hairgrass carpets to keep it short and to keep it clean. It grows back in very quickly, but at least for a few days, it'll look significantly shorter.

Carlos


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## pineapple

I don't think cutting the "grass" is necessary. It has a very natural look and works well with the wood. A photo angle slightly down from the top would enhance the natural look.

Andrew Cribb


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## jsenske

Andrew, 
That's just it. When you view the tank in person, the angles are very different. The height of Eleocharis is really not such an issue! I once again created a layout from a "standing" position, so when folks come into the gallery and view the layout, the perspective is somewhat biased. I am yet to capture it correctly in a photo, but all these "update" shots have been super-quickies with very little set-up. I'm basically walking in and shooting the tank. The layering of the Blyxa and then the border of Java Moss behind the haigrass (fore to midground transition) is all but inperceptible from these pics. I will capture that in greater detail when I do a formal shoot of this tank. Like I said too, as the midground especially and the rest of the layout fill in/mature, I think hairgrass height will be counter balanced. I still would not have been my first choice, though. I would have liked to use Lilaeopsis novazolindae, but the readily available species from Florida is actually L. brasilensis which get quite tall. Amano uses the true novazolindae, which stays nice and short. Here again- working with what you've got- can be a bit of a hindrance when every cool idea is not right at your finger tips (like in Japan!) No excuses though. 

This brings me to something else I have found to be true of Amano's work. He has really learned how to compose layouts that will photograph appropriately. The perspective is always such that the depth and relationships between fore, mid and background are easily captured in a photo- something to consider when dreaming up (and executing) your next layout for competition entry. 
I have had many layouts that looked real nice in person, but I just could not capture it in a photo- usually for the types of reasons described. (room dividers and multi-sided layouts/installations prove particularly difficult to convey photographically). 

I think I can keep the hairgrass in check until the rest of the layout gets where I want it. Between thinng and trimming in the right areas. Sometimes you have to invent your own methods too. Especially if you put in the time and are thoughtful and patient in your execution, many things can be achieved with tough compositions.


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## Jdinh04

Nice growth there man, I love how the hairgrass has grown a lot. Thanks for giving me an idea of what my tank should look like when the hair grass grows.


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## robitreef

Does anyone know what happened to the initial setup pics? I can't see them anymore. Maybe the site that is hosting the images is down?


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## jsenske

That's one for Art. he's been dealing with that I believe.


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## MiamiAG

Sorry, images are back.


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## PinoyDiscus

*Any updates?*

Hi Jeff, any updates on this lovely tank?


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## mlfishman

*lsd*

Jeff, I love your work and many times your posts have helped me on here but it sounds like you may have dropped one or two hits of acid too many at some point......nothing to be ashamed of though, many a creative genius has done so at some point.....by the way the hardscape on the ADA tank is sick!

>>I know, I know. These products are not for everyone and by no means necessity to do great work. Like I said, they are but a link in the chain- a piece of the puzzle- something else to try if one is so inclined. Many are curious- some just enjoy discussing this stuff.


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## jsenske

As a matter of fact, I am just about to shoot that tank again. It has done wonderfully throughout- I have just battled some compositional issues trying to get it right where I want it. It's now real close- the big delay was waiting for the hairgrass- which I completely leveled- to come back. It has and remarkably well- pics coming soon. Thanks!


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## mlfishman

*wood*

Jeff, Do you collect that wood locally, or purchase it? A piece of wood like you used would cost like 80-100$ at my LFS.


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## jsenske

We purchase it. It's imported form somewhere outside the US- don't know where , though- wish I did.


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## bharada

mlfishman said:


> Jeff, Do you collect that wood locally, or purchase it? A piece of wood like you used would cost like 80-100$ at my LFS.


 You're luck then. Pieces of wood like those would never be found in any LFS in my area!


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## dmartin72

Any updated shots?


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## jsenske

Nope. I did a new layout on this tank.


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## summitwynds

What did you do in between the rough layout of the driftwood and the final placement in the tank? Are the pieces tied together? Or were they water logged by boiling? Or some other method?


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