# Ammania Gracilis looks real bad



## mlfishman (Apr 4, 2005)

My Ammania Gracilis is in awful shape. When I got the stems they were in pretty bad shape, very pale, leaves folded up. I floated it for a while and it started looking decent, turned green and a bit pink and the stems got real thick. However, lately things are looking badly. Almost all of the old leaves fell off, but first they turned dark green and almost a purple color, and developed holes. They looked burnt. New growth is also dark and weird looking. This does not look like the vivid pink I have seen it attain in pictures. I have it under 3.6 wpg of Power Compact lighting (and I have 4.5" substrate so its prolly over 4wpg). 30+ppm co2, I dose all dry ferts. 10ppm Nitrates + 2ppm Phos + 10ppm Potassium every other day, alternating with 10mls of FLourish and 2 ml FLourish Iron on the days off from the macros. I also had been dosing MgSO4 and CaCL2 once a week and doing water changes 30% every 3-4 days. However I noticed the otyher day my GH was 15. Dont know if this could cause that. I also noticed that my KH went down 1 (from 4 to 3, this has happened b4 to my tap water) so my co2 was only 28ppm for a while, but I have pushed it up back over 30ppm last week, not sure if this makes a diff. I dont know if I just got an unhealthy couple stems, or if I have some type of nutrient deficiency or what the deal is. Maybe my GH is too high. I dont think its the nutrients cause Im dosing a ton of everything. This plant is not looking good at all. EVerything else in the tank is looking fairly good (glosso, wisteria, ludwigia repens, dilpis diandra, bacopa mint, anubias (could be greener) java & xmass moss). Except I wish my Ludwigia Repens was redder as it is starting to turn a reddish orange, I am hoping it gets red red like I have seen in pictures (for some reason my red never get as red as i wish). My temps have gone up a bit to like 78-79 with the warmer weather from the 75-77 they usually are. ALso my bacopa growth has slowed a bit from what it used to be (but back then i wasnt dosing any P, and much much less N, come to think of it hte ammania was doing better then.....hhmmmmm, my tap also tests 2ppm P but I dose anyway according to EI). Im stumped....


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## david lim (Mar 30, 2004)

hey mlfishman,
What is your iron level? I don't have the flourish iron bottle, so don't have an idea with your dosing regimen.

I had A. gracilis growing in a 3 wpg tank beautifully. But when I moved it into a 4.3wpg (intense MH HQI) tank it really changed from the orange-red to pale pink. I had to really increase my iron and NO3 levels to get it looking good again. I noticed you indicated a loss of green in your anubias. I have noticed that when I slack on my micro (Fe) fertilization that my anubias will also lose it's green shine and yellow will develop in the leaves (maybe due to lack of chlorophyll production? ). After increasing iron dosage though everything looks good again. 

HTH,
David


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## mlfishman (Apr 4, 2005)

*Fe*

David, Thank you very much for the reply. I was adding 5ml of Flourish Iron (+10ml of Flourish regular every other day which also contains iron) every othr day but I thought this may have been overkill so I dropped it to 2-3mls every other day. I was only dosing 5ppm of no3 for the longest and things starting looking much better since I upped them to 10ppm. But do you think my tank could be using more then 10ppm of NO3 and 5ml of flourish iron plus the iron from the 10ml of flourish every other day? Wheres tom barr when you need him  I thought about upping both but am hesitant that this may be way too much. I am very tempted to try upping both to see what type of results that i get. I do have a bunch of wisteria and ludwigia repens along with a thick glosso lawn (All fast growers) so maybe i am using it up. For a while I thought maybe my lights didnt have a good enough reflector and even though I had all that light that it wasnt getting to the plants but my glosso grows out of control so that shouldnt be a lack of lighting.


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## david lim (Mar 30, 2004)

If you're plants are already well established then I wouldn't overly worry about upping NO3. I like high nitrate levels (15ppm) to get bunch plants established and then I usually slack and let NO3 get to ~5-10ppm. However, if your A. gracilis isn't well established then the glosso and wisteria might be outcompeting it for nutrients. Increase the levels of NO3 until the A. gracilis becomes established or if there's an algae bloom . Then start backing it off again.

Fe lvl's I always find difficult in keeping high. When I used to measure Fe I thought I was dosing 1-2 ppm, but could rarely keep it above 0.1-0.3 ppm using a Hach test kit. I know the kit was accurate so I ended up dosing more iron. I wouldn't be surprised with the great growth of your plants that you're iron levels are lower than expected.

You might also considere lowering the total Flourish and increasing the Flourish Iron instead of vice-versa. adios,

David


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

Add more ferts.

Do not worry so much about daily uptake and trying to maitain sucha low level.

Maintain and good middle range, say 10-20ppm of NO3, rather than 2-5ppm.
This will allow some plants that are good competitiors to do well with plants that are not.

A gracilius is a very fast growing weed.
So you need to supply ample nutrients over time.
If the nutrients stop coming in or drop too low, then the plant stunts.

Might take awhile for it to bounch back also.

Adding more traces is typically a good idea also as mentioned......

Regards, 
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

Also, folks worry too much about what their test kits say, worry about the way the weeds look instead.

Do what makes them happy and then measure with kits, don't measure with kits, then look at the plants secondarily.

Your observations of the plants should be driven by the main goal, plant growth, not test kit measurements.

This is a plant hobby and the best test you can have, a plant bioassay.
You can add a consistent amount of powder or a liquid over time to achieve that repeatable rate.

No test kit needed.
They can be used to verify and see if they match with standards etc, but anyone can determine their plant tank's individual needs without them. 


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## mlfishman (Apr 4, 2005)

*dosing flourish iron*

I upped my dosing to 15ml Flourish iron every other to see if this helps, plus I upped my flourish regular to 12ml from 10ml every other day...well see if this helps....


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

Just keep a good eye on the CO2, that often is overlooked and sends folks on more wild nutrient goose chases than I can shake a driftwood stick at.

Back off so much GH/K2SO4. Eye ball the KH more.
The nutrients and light are fine then, all that's left is the CO2.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## mlfishman (Apr 4, 2005)

*cool*

thnanks, tom, you 'da man.


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

BTW, if you float the stems, new plantlets will form and these can be transferred to submersed culture.

So if the plant is stunted and not regrowing fast, you can do this to fresh starters going.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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