# [Wet Thumb Forum]-cracking tanks



## Ben C (Apr 16, 2006)

Hey, 
Have read a couple of posts in which people have mentioned tanks cracking. Is this a real problem? i mean, does it happen often? and for what reasons? Do they crack with age (like the best of us!), or is it only as the result of being knocked. What is the life-expectancy of a tank?
When tanks crack, do they split and burst water everywhere, or is there a period in which you can catch everything? Would love some more info on this, as i'm terrified of that happening in my house!!

cheers, 

BEN


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## Ben C (Apr 16, 2006)

Hey, 
Have read a couple of posts in which people have mentioned tanks cracking. Is this a real problem? i mean, does it happen often? and for what reasons? Do they crack with age (like the best of us!), or is it only as the result of being knocked. What is the life-expectancy of a tank?
When tanks crack, do they split and burst water everywhere, or is there a period in which you can catch everything? Would love some more info on this, as i'm terrified of that happening in my house!!

cheers, 

BEN


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## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

Hm.....how old are you? Nah, just kidding

Yeah, glasses will crack, if they are being mistreated, haha! Of course, man







How or what makes them crack? Irresponsible actions such as running too fast past it and knocking it down on the way. Letting your kids or dogs( take your pick here) mishandle them. Smash objects accidentally into them. Too much pressure on one side resulting from uneven surface the tank sits on....etc...etc....The list really goes on and on and is impossible to describe them all, but you get the picture. Like all precious gadgets you have, simply treat it with caution and care and you will be fine.

As for the life expectancy, it really varies on several things. Namely the quality of the glass and/or how well treated and cared for by its owner. Blah Blah Blah....you get the idea








You know how it is; the better you take care of a piece of equipment the longer it'll last(typically)

If you wanna play it safe, then I would suggest you find your tank a calm and quiet place, with minimal noise disturbance. Also, where there are least activities so as to minimize people from accidentally running into it or what not. Lastly but equally important is to put it somewhere where the temperature is relatively even; not much fluctuation. You'd rather want to keep it in a place that is cool than hot. In colder places you simply use a heater, which is much cheaper than if you were to buy a cooler in hotter places.

Paul


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

nothing to fear man....there are tanks in practically every household ....i haven't heard about it... the only time it cracks is if you do something on purpose to crack it..


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## imported_Sue (Jan 31, 2004)

Not to scare you but...

I had a 55 gallon tank burst on me for no reason I could figure. 
It was real early in the morning and I had just woke up. Turned the tank lights on an gave the fish a snack. Walked 6 feet back to the counter to drink a coffee and watch the fish eat. A big piece of glass shot out from the center of the front panel.
Nobody near it. No clue. Had to be a flaw in the glass. 
Had it happened 10 seconds sooner I might have been hurt. The glass really flew out.


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## Ben C (Apr 16, 2006)

Hey Sue, 

I'm 24!! 

Sorry to hear about your 55galloner.. so, i assume water just went EVERYWHERE.. right? that's gotta suck in a house.. not so bad in a garage.. but.. well... what happened?!


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

Sue, Maybe the extra flake food that you added that morning pushed it over the weight limit.


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

SOrry I joke to get over stuff, anyway, i forgot to say thank God that you didn't get hurt. I'm glad =)


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## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

There ya have it, folks! Tales from the Crypt featuring Spontaneous Tank Burst, starring Suicidal Flake and Maniacal Fish, directed and produced by none other than...........(drum roll).......SUE!!!

ok ok, back to normal! Sorry to hear that happening. That was indeed a very weird thing. Hope you are ok now









Paul


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## imported_Sue (Jan 31, 2004)

Scared the doo doo out of me! And it was just what I wanted to do at 4:30 in the morning. Scooping fish and putting them in every bowl and large pot I had.

Possibly a frost heave that shifted the house?? Don't know. Frost lifts buildings and roads here all the time but mostly the foundations are built to deal with it.

Wasn't that old a tank. Maybe two years old.

Tank I have going now is at least 20 years old. Keep meaning to get a tub of silicone to have around just in case but always forget.


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## Nillo (Jun 11, 2005)

I have a 40gal. glass tank that is almost 20yrs old. And, it has been moved all over the country a couple of times.


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## JERP (Feb 4, 2003)

When glass breaks, it isn't random. It follows an existing flaw in the glass. Your tank is old enough that I would carefully inspect it for small scratches or bubbles in the glass. You also want to inspect the seams and make sure there are no tears or cuts in the seams. Any chips in the glass and you are in big trouble. 

When looking for small scratches, it is sometimes easier to do it with the tank full of water. You can fill the tank with water and look at the glass from a sharp angle on the inside and outside of the glass. Scratches will be apparent visible when refraction causes a mirror affect. Bubbles are pretty visible too.

Common causes of scratches/cracks/breaks:
1. Earthquakes, Big ones. I've seen that. Very common on volcanoes in Japan.
2. Hitting tank with rocks during cleaning/set up/maintanence. Done it myself.
3. Running with scissors. Tank was in hallway and kid ran into it. Stupid kid
4. Damaged during move. Tank looked like a good place to store pots during move. It wasn't.
5. lamp heating glass. Light heated glass and cracked when splashed. Common on lids and in terrariums. Happened to my terrarium. Lizard escaped. Mom got mad.
6. Uneven stand. Glass doesn't bend, it breaks. When on an uneven surface, it will crack or shatter. especially with temperature changes. This, I've never seen on a fish tank. I've seen it on lamps whose cover was overtightned and exploded when it got warm and expanded.
7. Big fish, small tank. Oscars and arrowanas are called "Tank Buster" fish for a reason. I like small fish.


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

Haven't heard anyone mention temperature shock, I had a 90 gallon explode on me due to a sudden change in temperature. It was winter and the tank was near a door leading outside, I opened the door and just as a gust of freezing cold air gushed into the room and directly on the front of the tank it shattered. I could think of no other explaination other than temperature shock. Obviously there might have been a slight flaw in the tank to start with (I hope).

I have a 10 year old 90 gallon which has gone from lizards to reef to plants, the top brace is all melted and deformed yet still holding strong. Other than that, I ruined the seals once on a tank by picking it up incorrectly but no other tanks have broken on me in over 15 years.

Giancarlo Podio


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## countrymouse (Jul 6, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> I would carefully inspect it for small scratches or bubbles in the glass.


Can small scratches cause the glass to break? (Now I'm worried!)


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## Shane A smith (Jun 15, 2003)

Oscars and Arrowanas can break glass? By ramming it i guess? Thats one intense fish.


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## imported_qguy2 (Jun 1, 2004)

A tank will break if the following items is present

100 gallon tank
hammer
2 year old kid 

luckily my 2 year old did not get hurt...otherwise it would have been difficult to have him adopted ;-)


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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

sratches from cleaning and such are not an issue, but deep scratches from rocks and such can be over time. what that time is depends on a multitude of things but it can weaken the glass and eventually increase the scrtach into a crack.

THIS SHOULD NOT CONCERN ANYONE. Its just an observation. Even if a the glass is weakened it would prob take another issue to cause any real damage such as the blast of cold air, someone running into the tank or an uneven stand.

Take care of your tank and it will last decades. Silicone might need to be replaced in a dozen years or so, but short of hitting the glass with large solid object it will last indefinately.


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 26, 2004)

This thread has sparked some concern and I'm considering not reusing my old 40 long. At this point I'm looking at a new tank cost as a little insurance agenst a BIG problem. The old tank has been through about 12 moves and three owners including myself twice







and I don't like the look of the scratches in the glass or on the framing. I think it's time to retire it to the garage or make a pond ecosystem out of in it the back yard.

My tank is going in our living room ontop of exposed Oak flooring. The house was built 50+ years ago and has matching oak flooring throuout. I would never forgive myself if this little part of my life (the tank) ruined an attractive feature of my home.

James your probably right any tank should last decades but when it starts life with 20 somthings and is moved almost once a year from birth, I think it's time to retire the old girl.


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## MrRiley (Feb 13, 2007)

I have a small scratch/crack in my tank that is near the bottom and about three inches long. I can feel it on the inside and outside of the glass with my fingernail. I think I should probably buy a new tank. What do you think? 50 gal 4 ft tank.


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## freydo (Jan 7, 2006)

if it's a glass tank, it is a good idea to inspect if for deep scratches, pits, and cracks. normally with glass tanks, if there's a leak, you have some time to drain it and clean it out before too much water escapes. but that's if the leak is not too big.

however, if it's a tempered glass tank, and it gets struck hard enough to develop a crack, get the heck out of the way! that sucker is gonna blow!

another thing to consider is when setting up the tank, ensure it's placed on a level surface on top of some rigid insulation. this will prevent any stress points on the bottom of the tank.


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## JERP (Feb 4, 2003)

Wow, It's a three year old thread and I get to reply again!

If you can feel the scratch on both sides of the glass, it's not a scratch but a crack going all the way through the glass. You need a new tank.


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## MemphisBob (Mar 20, 2007)

Well, since someone else already dug it up I guess I'll add my .02 cents. A 90 gallon tank with a 400watt heater can burst if sitting next to a window on an outer wall in the winter even though the tank is made of 3/8" glass.


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## t2000kw (Jul 29, 2006)

Two reasons a tank might crack (but not likely if you're reasonably careful):

1. Center brace across the top broken, allows the front and back panes to bow out, stress, then break at an inopportune moment. If your brace is cracked, you can fix it by making a new brace and gluing it to the old one while the tank is empty (important that it is empty). Or you can drill small holes in the old and new brace and attach them together with rivets or screws. Or you can fashion a brace that will go over the top and over the front and back a bit. You will have to make sure it doesn't come off while there is water in it, so you may want to glue it in place.

2. Edge chips or striking the edge of the glass. The edge of a pane of glass is the place where it's most likely to cause a running crack or even a full break. Existing chipped areas might have a very small "vent" (a small crack line) already that will grow over time or if there is enough stress suddenly rip through the glass. They are also a weak spot so if it's big enough it may weaken the glass pane enough to allow it to break at some point. Depending on the stress on the pane (full tank of water will add stress to the pane), it may happen very quickly. No fix for vents other than replace the glass or hope it doesn't get worse (not a good idea to ignore it). If you have a small chipped area, you can sand it to remove the sharp edges but examine it closely first to see if it's more than a simple chip. 

I have some tanks with edge chips and one with a repaired top brace (glued another piece of an aquarium top to the brace with PVC pipe primer and cement). I have had no problems, but there are no vents around the chips.


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## puppygirl13 (Apr 21, 2007)

Recently my 40 gallon tank spontaneously cracked, about a month after we moved to our new place. I believe in my old apartment the floor was not level, and the water in the tank was never level, and in the new place it was level. Not really sure, though. We just heard a loud "CRACK" and then water spilling. We saved all the fish and shrimp, including about 8 panda cory fry we didn't even know were there. Having a Python saved our floor, though, only a few gallons made it to the carpet.


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## t2000kw (Jul 29, 2006)

puppygirl13 said:


> Recently my 40 gallon tank spontaneously cracked, about a month after we moved to our new place. I believe in my old apartment the floor was not level, and the water in the tank was never level, and in the new place it was level. Not really sure, though. We just heard a loud "CRACK" and then water spilling. We saved all the fish and shrimp, including about 8 panda cory fry we didn't even know were there. Having a Python saved our floor, though, only a few gallons made it to the carpet.


OK, make that a third reason. :heh:

If the floor is crooked and the stand allows the tank glass to be torqued, it can also be a reason for cracking.

I never heard of a Python being used to suck up water from a floor, but it makes sense. I'd use a shop vac, Rainbow vacuum, or one of those carpet cleaning machines first, but that's because I don't have a Python.

You can remove the glass that cracked and replace it, but you'll need to check these forums on how to do it, how to measure, what to expect from the glass shop (their tolerances may not be good enough), etc. A good glass shop might work with you if you take your tank down there--they might even remove the old pane for you, and might even be able to do the whole job.

However, you can get a used 55 gallon tank for as low as $25, so it might not be worth the trouble unless you are doing it all yourself. I bought one 55 for $30, two for $25, and one person answered an ad I had when I was looking for a 75 and ended up giving me their 55 just to get it out of the house. A renter left it behind. Of course, you'd need a stand, and you have one for a 40, so you may want to consider that.


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## puppygirl13 (Apr 21, 2007)

t2000kw said:


> I never heard of a Python being used to suck up water from a floor, but it makes sense. I'd use a shop vac, Rainbow vacuum, or one of those carpet cleaning machines first, but that's because I don't have a Python.


No, we used the Python to suck the water out of the tank before it all spilled out onto the floor. Actually, I wasn't home at the time, my husband was, and he's never used the Python before, so trying to explain to him how to hook it up and use it, in a panic, over the phone, was not easy.

We did use a shop vac for the water that did spill, though, but thanks to the Python, it wasn't more than a couple gallons.


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## kimo (Apr 21, 2006)

It is very easy to prevent cracking tanks right from the beginning. All that is needed is a piece of thick cardboard (for tanks up to 50g) or some old carpet (for tanks 50g and up). 
First, level the stand. Then cut strips of cardboard or old carpet a little wider than the base edges of the tank. Use tape to temporarily hold rug/cardboard to stand while you mount the tank. The thickness of the cardboard/carpet takes up for any minor imperfections in the stand. It will crush down to end up being perfectly flat. This will result in NO cracks or breaking glass caused by stress... EVER! The only way you'll break a tank with this setup is by dropping a 30 lb rock through the bottom.

My 150g tank (along with 30+ other smaller tanks) has been moved cross country (coast to coast) more than 4 times in the back of a pickup (resting on carpet and blankets) and is in as good a shape now as when I bought it 38 yrs ago.

A little time and preperation in the beginning always helps stop those nasty leaks at 3 AM.

Always picking up a tank flat... without yanking or warping helps too.


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## t2000kw (Jul 29, 2006)

I use a similar approach with polystyrene (Styrofoam) insulation panels cut to fit under the tank edges. The cheap stuff works fine--you don't need the blue stuff. Anything that compresses a little and spreads out the weight over small bumps in the wooden stand should work. I suppose it could even be used on metal stands that have some imperfections.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

I have two 55 gallon and one 40 breeder all with the center brace broken or missing. Two of them I broke, and one I bought used with it broken. The former owner tried to repair it by putting in a new brace, but the silicone did not hold on one end of the homemade brace.

Is this an accident waiting to hapen? I've had one 55 with no center brace for several years, the other two I have had for little over a year.


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## t2000kw (Jul 29, 2006)

Robert Hudson said:


> I have two 55 gallon and one 40 breeder all with the center brace broken or missing. Two of them I broke, and one I bought used with it broken. The former owner tried to repair it by putting in a new brace, but the silicone did not hold on one end of the homemade brace.
> 
> Is this an accident waiting to happen? I've had one 55 with no center brace for several years, the other two I have had for little over a year.


You could drill some small holes, use small stainless steel washers and screws (or bolts) and nuts and hold it together that way. Since you've used silicone, the surface will only work with silicone. Nothing else will stick to silicone sealant that I am aware of, other than a similar product.

However, you could scrape off the silicone very thoroughly, sand it enough to get it all off, then use PVC plastic pipe primer ans solvent, clamp it very tightly without breaking the plastic brace, and give it several hours to set and dry. This worked for one of ours.

If you are getting by without the braces, and no sudden forces are exerted on the tanks, you may continue to see no problems. But remember, there is a reason they put the braces on the newer tanks when they made the glass a lot thinner.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Now you got me nervous! I do see a little bow in the glass on the 40. I bought that one used from a shop in California about eight years ago. I busted the brace last month when I moved.


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## t2000kw (Jul 29, 2006)

Robert Hudson said:


> Now you got me nervous! I do see a little bow in the glass on the 40. I bought that one used from a shop in California about eight years ago. I busted the brace last month when I moved.


Do you think, if it's drained most of the way down, that you could use some stainless (not aluminum, brass, etc.) screws and washers to install a piece of stainless steel metal under or over the brace to hold it where it would be if it were still intact?

You could use aluminum (the forum spell checker is suggesting aluminium) for the brace. I did for my goldfish tank, not as a brace but to be a resting place for the glass tops. It's a very old aquarium with very thick glass and did not require a brace. But you need something in the middle to keep the top from falling into the tank. Aluminum is not the best metal over a tank, but figure that it's the most common element in the ground, and it's not immersed, but it will get some condensation on it. It can be toxic to some marine life.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

I don't know... I can't really picture doing that but I have a buddy who is a handy man sort of guy and he would be able to figure it out. Thanks for all the ideas. Thats good info! I don't think this tank is that old. It has plastic molding around the rim and the brace itself. I put too much weight on it when I was dumping gravel in the tank. I accidently set the bucket of gravel on it... just barely, but long enough for it to pop!


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## kimo (Apr 21, 2006)

"Do you think, if it's drained most of the way down, that you could use some stainless (not aluminum, brass, etc.) screws and washers to install a piece of stainless steel metal under or over the brace to hold it where it would be if it were still intact?"

If you use any metal, use BRONZE. It's not affected by salt or fresh water. Stainless steel has imperfections in the metal that will allow it to corrode when in contact (or near) with water. Any common metal will corrode through galvanic action. There are salts in hard fresh water... any two disimiular metals or current leakage from the lights will cause galvanic action.

You could use aluminum for the brace. I did for my goldfish tank, not as a brace but to be a resting place for the glass tops. It's a very old aquarium with very thick glass and did not require a brace. But you need something in the middle to keep the top from falling into the tank. Aluminum is not the best metal over a tank, but figure that it's the most common element in the ground, and it's not immersed, but it will get some condensation on it. It can be toxic to some marine life

See above, but bare aluminum does not hold up well when immersed or damp from splash.


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## t2000kw (Jul 29, 2006)

If you use any metal, you might do well to coat it with polyurethane. As long as the metal is not in contact with any other metal or electrical device, that should make it safe.


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## blacksmith37 (Oct 10, 2006)

As others have pointed out ; if you are good to the aquarium ,it will be good to you. About the only concern is poor silicon job by the builder. 
I had a 55 crack once, but it was outside on a wood railing; I think as the railing got wet and dry (in the rain) there was differential movement ( after 4months).
I am so embarrassed , I had only read the first page of this posting;
I have added glass/silicon centerbraces to a few 55, works fine if done right.
Any common metal is fine. I made a steel center brace for a 50gal by welding 3/8" thread stock to a piece of 1" angle; drilling a hole in a second piece of angle, and putting a nut on the thread stock. Then I could gradually tighten the nut to pull the sides together. This tank was 14" X14" x 52" and was made with angle iron in the teens- as in 1915 (I think). It was found ,in a dirty basement and given to me in about 1948. Last I saw it was 1980 and it was fine.(Lost it in the divorce).


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## sprwoman1 (Jun 18, 2007)

My first 55g suddenly cracked one night after I had it between 1 & 2 years. It was under a window and a few inches from a wall. It must have been from the temperature shock because it was the back of the tank that cracked.

A few years back my 55g's brace fell into the tank. As a temp fix we went to a local hardware store and bought a clamp, and used that too keep everything together. Only thing was that the end stuck out a few inches and we kept walking into the clamp when we walked by the tank. It was fine like that for 6-8 months till we moved. Then when we were getting ready to re-fill the tank hubby walks up and turns the screw tightening the clamp one turn cracking the tank. Then he got ripped off buying a replacement tank at the last moment.


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## It's Me (Jan 14, 2008)

I know this is resurrecting an old thread, and from reading it I am pretty sure I know the answer. I need a new tank right?


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## t2000kw (Jul 29, 2006)

I don't see a vent in the glass, just a chip. A vent lis a crack that runs from the area of impact into the glass. An edge chip, if it's what it looks like in the picture, barely weakens the glass and shouldn't be an issue. The damage is contained within the chip area and won't spread. I've used tanks with chipped glass without any problems. If it's unsightly, turn the tank so it is not in the front. 

If, however, there is a hairline crack that runs into the glass, it will, over time, get longer and longer and eventually split through the glass. If you can gently press on it and a line develops going into the glass, you have a vent. I say gently because if you press hard enough, you can create a crack or vent in good glass. 

If it leaks, which I doubt, then you'll have to address that. 

In case there is such a small vent that it doesn't show, just keep an eye on it. It won't crack overnight unless there is a sudden stress on the glass. You could, if it's not deep, use a belt sander (or hand sander) to slowly remove the glass in the chipped area. This would just about guarantee that you won't have any problems, but if there was an invisible hairline crack, you might open it up more. 

If you choose to sand the chipped area, you might be able to hide the area with some clear nail polish.


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## It's Me (Jan 14, 2008)

I appreciate the info. My question now, is it worth starting a tank with a chip or should I just get a new tank and sell this one to someone who needs tank for reptiles?


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

Basically it depends on how much you will worry about it, and I suspect you will (I would). It's not worth the worry and the water on the floor. Tanks aren't that expensive. Just get a new one. 

This is way worse than a chip, but I had the center brace on my 55 break, and the front glass bowed wickedly.


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## t2000kw (Jul 29, 2006)

I would use that tank myself. If you have any doubts about it, you could fill it up with water and stress the chipped area with some pushing to see if it cracks. If not, it should be safe.


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## Scouter (Mar 3, 2008)

I have a tank that's leaning backwards. The tank is a 20 gal high and there's about a 3/32" discrepancy between front to back on one side and about an 1/8" discrepancy on the other. Should I be worried or is that in the ok mark?
Thanks,
Scouter


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## t2000kw (Jul 29, 2006)

vancat said:


> I had the center brace on my 55 break, and the front glass bowed wickedly.


I fixed a 55 center brace by using a scrapped one glued to the original one with PVC pipe cement. That was a year or two ago and it's still holding. Epoxy might work also, but the cement, actually a plastic welding solvent, worked well enough. I had to do some surface prep on it and cut the piece carefully.

You could also fashion a clip across the top made of stainless steel. Aluminum would work but you might want to coat it with polyurethane first to keep the aluminum out of the water. A little aluminum won't hurt, though, based on my experience, but the metal was not in direct contact with the water. aluminum is a very common element so it's likely in the muddy bottoms of many places you find fish.


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## t2000kw (Jul 29, 2006)

Scouter said:


> I have a tank that's leaning backwards. The tank is a 20 gal high and there's about a 3/32" discrepancy between front to back on one side and about an 1/8" discrepancy on the other. Should I be worried or is that in the ok mark?
> Thanks,
> Scouter


That doesn't sound like much. Is that because of your stand or was it made incorrectly?

Some of my tanks lean further than that and I haven't had any problems. Older houses can have uneven floors that you wouldn't normally notice unless you set up a tank and saw the water level against the top of the tank and compared it from front to back or side to side.

You can shim the stand if that's the cause, but shim them under the feet, not between the tank and the stand. It's easier to do that before you add water, but if your floor moved under the weight of the water, it would be hard to shim it first.

If it's the floor bowing under the weight of the tank, your best bet is to use a floor jack under the floor. Best way to arrange things is to have the short dimension of the tank in the direction that the floor joists run, and run a 4x4 perpendicular to the joists under or near where the tank sits above.

I did that under where I set up a 100 gallon tank. I wasn't able to get the 4x4 directly under the length of the tank, so I put it further out but still perpendicular to the joists.


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## Scouter (Mar 3, 2008)

Whew! thanks for the reply. I'm pretty sure it is the stand-I had to make it when I was away at college and only had hand tools. But the tank is sitting on a granite slab so at least I know that the tank is on a flat surface that won't warp! 

Scouter


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## t2000kw (Jul 29, 2006)

Scouter said:


> Whew! thanks for the reply. I'm pretty sure it is the stand-I had to make it when I was away at college and only had hand tools. But the tank is sitting on a granite slab so at least I know that the tank is on a flat surface that won't warp!
> 
> Scouter


If it's not too much trouble, and if you haven't already, you can put some 1/2" polystyrene (Styrofoam) sheeting between your tank and the stand. I did that on all of my home built stands to make up for slight imperfections. The foam spreads out the weight over small bumps or dips in the wood and keeps the glass from being stressed. You can cut it with a new single edged razor blade. It does look ugly, unless you have a rim around the top of the stand to hide this, but then it's hard to lower a large and heavy tank into the stand, unless the rim is removable. I just used some colored duct tape over it. My intent it to eventually have all metal stands, but $$$ are in short supply here, and will be for a few more years.


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## Scouter (Mar 3, 2008)

That's a good idea-alas, I'm not too keen on moving my tank now that it's full of water, but I'll definitely do that when I move! I was planning of putting some molding on under the granite, so I guess I'll just wait until I get the Styrofoam on.
Thanks
Scouter


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