# How do I adjust my dosing?



## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

I currently dose pps pro solutions everyday of the week and my water parameters are as follows. 
TankH=6.7 Tap KH= 2.8
KH=4.98 Tap TDS= 54ppm
TDS= 354 Tap Nitrates=0ppm
Nitrates= 100ppm Tap GH=3.37
GH=4.49 Tap Phosphates=0
Phosphates= 1.1ppm




How do I go about adjusting my dosing to get to more reasonable levels? Do I cut the KNO3 in half? and double my KH2PO4? and maybe add a GH booster?

I tried some of the calculators but I seem to confuse myself using them.


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## Maryland Guppy (Mar 5, 2015)

Not knowing enough about your tank?

1/4 KNO3 dosing.
1.5x K2SO4 dosing to make up for lost potassium reduced by less KNO3.
Just a guess.

What is your contributor to high NO3? Lots of fish etc???

I have been using PPS Classic dosing solutions for 3 months.
Trying to establish a final mix to reduce to 2 bottles for PPS Pro shall we say.
Largest problem for me is excessive NO3 (40ppm) and PO4 (0ppm).


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

TankH=6.7- Probably fine for almost all soft water fish, snails, shrimp and plants. 

Tap KH= 2.8, KH=4.98 Probably fine for all soft water livestock and plants. Hard water fish would like this a bit higher (raising KH will also raise the pH)Monitor this through a few weeks to a month. As long as it stays in this fairly low range, that is OK. If you see it keeps on climbing, then you will want to stop adding whatever source of carbonates or bicarbonates you are adding.

Tap TDS= 54ppm, TDS= 354 This is a very big jump in TDS. I would do something to reduce whatever you are adding so it will not climb like this through the week. The plants ought to be able to use up almost all the nutrients in the pps system.

Tap Nitrates=0ppm, Nitrates= 100ppm -This is way too high. As suggested above, cut your KNO3 dose in 1/4, or dose every other day, half as much. You could skip dosing entirely until the NO3 comes down under 10ppm. Then dose just enough that it might climb to 15-20 through the week.

Tap GH=3.37 GH=4.49 Not much of a change. If you want to dose a little less GH booster, that is up to you. If you are keeping strictly soft water fish, then I would reduce the GH booster, or not dose it at all. Are you using a complete GH booster (includes Ca and Mg?) Or are you dosing Epsom Salt (just magnesium)? If you are dosing Epsom salt, I would stop, unless you know your tap water is low in Mg.

Tap Phosphates=0, Phosphates= 1.1ppm Not too bad at all. Do not dose any more KH2PO4. Monitor this over a few weeks or a month. If it climbs over 2 ppm, then cut the dose by enough to keep it closer to about 1-2ppm. 

When you greatly reduce the KNO3 the plants will need an alternate source of potassium. Dose K2SO4 for potassium.

Are you dosing a trace mineral supplement? This is another possible source of the rising TDS. I would reduce this, see if that helps reduce the great increase in TDS.

Check all the products you are using. Are they all pure chemicals? Agricultural grade is fine. I would be concerned that something might contain salt (sodium chloride) Some brands of GH booster contain a fair amount of salt. If this is the problem, then switch to Seachem Equilibrium if you want to use a GH booster at all. It contains Ca, Mg and K plus a couple of trace minerals, and no salt. 

To get the NO3 lower you could do more frequent water changes for a while (if the plants do not start getting rid of it). But with the TDS so high, you cannot do big water changes. I would do 10% water change once a day for a week, and not dose anything. 
Then test the parameters and see where you are.


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

I dose CSM+B for trace. Currently I do not use a GH booster at all. and I was reading places that GSA can occur if your plants arent getting enough Phosphates thats why I was thinking about adding more of that. My PH is held in check using PH controller with Co2. So I can adjust that to whatever. I was mainly holding it at 6.7 because of where my KH was in realtionship to Co2. I automatic dose everythign using auto doser but I think the KNO3 dose needs to be reduced like you said because my nitrates are so high. My lights are BML dutch style light set at like 70% with dimmer i think. but everything I dose based on recommendation from PPS pro solutions. I have no idea what my MG is never tested that.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

There may not be a hobby level test for magnesium. 
To figure this out test GH and calcium. 
There is a special formula to figure out from this what the magnesium level is. 
It is _not_ simply GH - Ca = Mg.

At this point I would indeed work on lowering the NO3.


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

earlier when you said cut no3 in 1/4 do you mean reduce it by one quarter or cut it down to 1/4 of what the original was
thanks for your help


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

If the current dose you have been using has resulted in a reading of 100ppm, then I would use only 25% of the current dose, after you have gotten rid of almost all of the NO3 currently in the tank.


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## Maryland Guppy (Mar 5, 2015)

Formula for approximate Mg level.
((17.86 x dGH) - (2.5 x Ca ppm)) / 4.1 = Mg ppm


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

Ok I currently reduced my dosing to every other day hoping to suck up some of the nitrates I also add pinch of potassium sulfate to help eat it up faster as well till I can get it down to adjust ferts


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

(notes formula... writes it down....)
Thanks! Maryland Guppy


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## Maryland Guppy (Mar 5, 2015)

I believe I have read in one of these online forums?
5 ppm of Mg is an ideal level.
Not sure if this is the truth.

I use 5 ppm as a target value though.


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

Ok thank you I don't have a calcium test yet so I don't think I can calculate Mg yet but most people say you don't even have to measure calcium and mg 


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Testing for either Ca or Mg is optional. Get the other things right, first. If the tap water GH is over 3 German degrees of hardness, I would not worry about it. After other things are corrected, if there is still something wrong with the plants, then MAYBE it is related to Ca or Mg. 

Alternate idea: If you dose just enough Seachem Equilibrium to raise the tap water GH by 1 degree, that ought to supply plenty of Ca and Mg for the plants. In my low tech tanks, though, I do not even notice the plants using that much. The GH is stable between water changes.


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

Thanks for the input yeah I am testing stuff a lot lately trying to get this fertilizer stuff figured out I never paid much attention I always just figured if I used pps then I would be good but I'm finding that's not the case 


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Well, the most basic concept in fertilizing land plants or aquatic is to supplement with what is lacking. 
To know what is lacking, you need to test. Does not matter if you have hundreds of acres of crops or hundreds of ounces of water in a glass box. If you know where you are starting from you have a better idea of how to get where you are going. 

The EI method says, 'Go ahead and dose it all, then throw away what the plants are not using. Reset and start again'. 

A modified version of that is, 'Lets not create so much waste. Dose what the plants need in abundance, not extreme excess'


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

Date=11/5/2015
Time= 6:00 PM
KH= 5.208 from Hach checker and nutrafin
TDS= 292ppm
Nitrates= 20 from nutrafin and 80 from API
GH= 3.36 from nutrafin
Phosphate= 1ppm and 1.3ppm from Hach checker and 0.25ppm from API
Iron= 0 from nutrafin
PH=6.7 set from ph controller

I have no idea what to think about my nitrates or phosphates to major fertilizers and theres pretty decent distance between values. 

BTW I reduced my dosing to every other day with PPS Pro and right now have major algae outbreak all over my glass and plants.

Anyone have any ideas.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Date=11/5/2015
Time= 6:00 PM Are you running a more or less standard day? So this is after many hours of 'daylight'?
KH= 5.208 from Hach checker and nutrafin Is this 5 German Degrees of hardness? Or some other units?
TDS= 292ppm
Nitrates= 20 from nutrafin and 80 from APIHave you calibrated these tests? I cannot see the colors of the API tests well enough in that high range. All the hot pink/fuchsia/red shades over 40ppm look the same. Try this: Repeat the tests with 50% RO or DI (if you have either on hand) and 50% tank water. Then double the result. Also, calibrate the test kits.
GH= 3.36 from nutrafin Again, What Units?
Phosphate= 1ppm and 1.3ppm from Hach checker and 0.25ppm from API Not sure why the difference. Are they both reporting PO4? Or is one reporting Phosphorus? Read the literature and see. 
Iron= 0 from nutrafin I could never get a reading from the Red Sea Iron test, either. Iron gets locked up pretty fast in an aquarium. What kind of iron are you adding? A chelate? Which one? 
PH=6.7 set from ph controller If you were not using a pH controller, what would the pH be? Take samples from mid level or deeper in the tank at different times of the day and leave them out at room temperature for several hours. Then test pH. 1) Early morning before the lights come on. 2) Noon to early afternoon (photosynthesis in full swing). 3) End of the day (lights off).

Somewhere there is a way to control algae by controlling the N ratio. Lets see if I can find it.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Redfield_Ratio

OK, that was fast!

Concept: 
Dose one fertilizer (N or P) and omit the other. 
When algae shows up, start dosing the other. When algae goes away, that is a good ratio for your tank.

I think I would do a fairly good clean up of the tank to remove current algae, but not too good. Allow some remnants that COULD regrow, if the conditions are right for that type of algae. 
If it does not regrow then you have gotten the ratios right for preventing that algae.

http://forums.tfhmagazine.com/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=24749


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

read some of this thread maybe that will help you. 
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/62516-method-controlled-imbalances-discussion.html


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

Time= 11 hrs my lights are on from 9AM to 8PM
KH and GH are in d Hardness
I will run the 50% DO water and get you the results
how do you calibrate the tests? Didnt know you had to do that
I think they both are testing phosphates one is a phosphate checker and the other is phosphate test so I think they both test the same thing
The iron is from CSM+B I think thats chelated right?
times I checked pH before the controller the PH was 7.26 in AM right after lights, 7.13 in Afternoon, and 7.02 in evening and 7.09 in late evening


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...83545-calibrating-test-kits-non-chemists.html

Such a small variation in the pH when there is no controller involved suggests there is little or no change in the CO2 through the day. When lights first come on the CO2 ought to be the highest, thus the pH the lowest. As the plants remove the CO2 the pH ought to rise, reaching a peak in the mid afternoon. The plants may slack off through the late afternoon, so by lights out the CO2 might be rising a bit and the pH dropping just a bit.

The iron in CSM+B is chelated, in a form that is most available in low pH.


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

I retest my nitrate with 50% Distilled water. It came out about 80 again for API and hard to tell with nutrafin but I would estimate about 60ppm. I might have to recalibrate my PH meter and test my water as you had noted before because I'm not sure how accurate those results were with my PH I just had those numbers written in a spreadsheet and I don't remember the exact circumstances under which they were taken. I may get a co2 checker too and check it that way.


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

I unhooked the co2 from my tank and monitored the PH today as much as I could while I was at work I couldn't monitor it much. But I turned it off last night at about 9:30 PM at which point it was at 6.7. Then at 6:30 AM this morning it was at 7.1 and then I checked it at 3:45PM it was up to 7.7. So I think the PH fluctuation is right so I think I could rule that out right?


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Well, the pH test looks good- usually this much change over a day is a good level of CO2 use by the plants. So, when you set your controller to keep the pH in the mid to upper 6s I think that is right. 

Nitrate that high is too much. I would do at least one water change of 50%, and perhaps 2 water changes of 50%. Then not dose anything until the value comes down to under 20ppm.


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

Ok glad you think my co2 is good. I will do water change and dose some phosphates as well see if I can get the nitrate used up. Then I will give you an update. I really really appreciate your willingness to help me out!


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

I confirmed my Co2 is good with drop checker. My nitrates are still at 80ppm. Phosphates from API is 0ppm. My tap water nitrates are 0ppm. So I don't know why I cant get my nitrates lower. I guess I'm going to have to do some huge water changes because my fertilizer hasn't been added for a week or so now. Co2 is still injected. Pearling is still happening. But still have GSA showing up. I did add some pinches of phosphate two days. And I think that may have slowed the algae over those two days. I'm going to have to do big water change.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

If the phosphate test is right, and the plants keep zeroing it out, then that could be why they are not using the nitrates. 
Yes, a big water change, or 2 in a row seem to be in order. 
Then maybe dose phosphates, potassium and traces, but no nitrogen, and see what happens. 

Maybe this was asked way back on page 1, but what kind and how many fish, shrimp or other critters are in here? Food is high in protein, and this can be a major source of nitrogen in an aquarium. In a high tech tank the plants can usually use it up, though.


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

I have like 6 neon tetras, 3 black skirts, some other 2-barb like fish but they arnt barbs I dont think or something I dont remember what they are, one long finned zebra danio, 2 glo fish skirt tetras and 2 otos. I'm wondering if I need to switch fish food maybe or something.


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

What is the best kind of fish food for a planted aquarium?


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Really basically, all fish food, no matter what it is, how good it is or how bad it is contributes pretty much the same elements to the plants. 
I use a high quality food for the benefit of the fish. I get it from here:
www.almostnaturaltropicalfishfood.com

Fish food has protein, carbs and fats. 
These are broken down by fish digestion or microorganisms.

Fish food is high in N, P, and most traces. 
Fish food is low in K, Fe, Ca and Mg. 
Water changes with water that has a GH of at least 3 German degrees of hardness will usually supply enough Ca and Mg. 
A low tech tank (low light, no carbon dioxide added) might just need a little K and Fe supplement. 
As I added more light to my tanks I found I had to add more and more fertilizers and carbon (Excel) until I was doing the full EI recipe, then I started adjusting it to suit the way I take care of the tanks. I recently figured out that my adjustments ended up pretty close to the PPS pro system.

Here is the recipe, boiled down to its essentials:
1) Figure out how many fertilizers you are already adding from other sources. (Fish food, water changes, pH adjusters, GH boosters...)
2) Figure out what else the plants need.

Other sources of fertilizers:
Fish food. If you run the tank with no fertilizers and test the NO3 this can be a stand-in for N, P, and most traces. One of three things will show up:
a) NO3 rises between water changes. This means the fish food is supplying more N, P and most traces than the plants are using. Do larger water changes so the NO3 is stable, and do not dose N, P or traces. I would dose K, Fe and C. If the GH is stable and at least 3 degrees, then simply allow water changes to supply the Ca and Mg. If a problem shows up that you think is related to Ca or Mg you can dose a bit of Seachem Equilibrium to raise the GH by a degree or 2 and most fish won't mind. 
b) NO3 is stable between water changes. Pretty much the same as option a) as far as adding fertilizer. 
c) NO3 drops between water changes. Here is where it gets tricky. 
If it drops a lot, and the plants are using up the nitrogen to the point that the NO3 is hovering really close to 0, say, under 5ppm, then dose all the fertilizers at the full dose of whatever program you are following. 
If it slowly drops, then dose whatever program you want, but alter the dosing. Lets say you figure out that the EI concept is right. But perhaps you felt that you did not need quite so much nitrogen because of fish food. Lets say you decide to dose 50% of what EI says to dose. Then you should also cut the P and traces by 50%. Dose the full amount of K and Fe, and make sure the GH is stable, or else dose a little bit of GH booster.

Here is what worked for me:
When most of my tanks were heavily stocked:
KNO3 @ 25% of EI
KH2PO4 @ 25% of EI
K2SO4 based on the idea that most of the potassium in the EI method comes from KNO3, and all I wanted was the K. Measure out enough KNO3 to suit, then add enough K2SO4 to match the amount of KNO3 recipe called for. Example: If the recipe called for 1 tsp KNO3, but I only wanted to add .25 tsp of KNO3, then I would add .75 tsp of K2SO4. If you look at the chemistry formula then to get the same amount of potassium, you really need to add a bit less, but it is very easy to figure out this way. 
traces (CSM+B) @ 25% of EI
Chelated iron dose matches the traces. Example: If EI calls for 1 teaspoon of CSM+B, but I am only dosing .25 tsp, then dose .25 tsp of iron. (Per a suggestion I read somewhere, iron can be dosed at anywhere from 'equal to the traces' to 'one quarter of the traces'. Since fish food is low in iron, but supplies the other traces, I dosed it to replace the missing iron. 
My tap water has a GH of about 4 degrees, so I never dosed GH booster for the plants. I used it for hard water fish, though. I made the water suit the fish's requirements.

As I got more tanks and fewer fish I used the EI recipe closer to the original quantities. But the same adjustment concepts:
The reduced quantity of fish food (for fewer fish per tank) provides 25% of the NO3, and it also provides 25% of the P and traces, so cut these fertilizers accordingly (use 75% of EI). Make up for the deficiencies in fish food by adding more of K and Fe, pretty close to the original EI amounts.


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

Ok thank you I will have to give it a try I also realized that I wasn't adding the phosphates like I thought I was I was adding potassium sulfate so that was dumb of me I guess that's what I get for doing it in the morning when I wake up lol but I will definitely take ur suggestions and try that out. I just really want to get stuff sorted out I have had a less than mediocre tank for too long with too much algae so I've finally gotten set on fixing my problem 


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Good you got that sorted out! No wonder the phosphate test was zero. And some kinds of algae really thrive when the N ratio is off. And 80:0 is WAY off! 

Have you figured out where the NO3 is coming from? Is it fish food? Or is it the fertilizers you are dosing?


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

I'm not sure yet I haven't been adding any Ferts lately except some phosphates trying to get the nitrates down I'm going to test nitrates again it could be the fish food I don't feed that much but my mom might but I don't think so they are tetramin flake clean and clear wAter formula 


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

I tested nitrates again they are staying relatively high I haven't done enough water changes though. Like I said I haven't been Adding Ferts other than occasionally some phosphates I checked the nitrates they were at 60ppm still pretty high I'm not sure if it's the fish food or what kinda confusing to me 


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

Nitrites are 0ppm ammonia tested like 0.1ppm or so 


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