# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Which equipment to add first? Canister or CO2?



## AP (Mar 20, 2004)

I will be adding a new canister filter and injected CO2 to my planted tank, but for economic reasons, will only add one at a time. The canister filter will be replacing a Marineland Emporer HOB filter. I would like to add the pressurized CO2 first, but will this be pointless due to the churning, bio-wheel action of the Emporer filter?

Thanks in advance for the advice!


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## AP (Mar 20, 2004)

I will be adding a new canister filter and injected CO2 to my planted tank, but for economic reasons, will only add one at a time. The canister filter will be replacing a Marineland Emporer HOB filter. I would like to add the pressurized CO2 first, but will this be pointless due to the churning, bio-wheel action of the Emporer filter?

Thanks in advance for the advice!


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

No, I don't think it will be pointless. You will lose some C02 but not enough to where your plants won't benifit. I use a HOB on one of my planted tanks & perfer it over the canister. I just keep the flow turned down & make sure to keep the water topped off to minimize aggitation of the water.


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## AP (Mar 20, 2004)

Thank you for the advice and first hand account. You made a good point in reccomending that I keep the water topped off. I could be a little more disciplined about that. I have a cell-pore cartridge full of bacteria growth in my Emporer, so that cuts down on the flow alot, already. Also I guess I should keep in mind, that with pressurized CO2, it is the start up costs that hurt, after that, it is cheap to fill.

Thanks again!


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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

The Marineland HOB filters with bio-wheels lose 4X the CO2 of a cannister filter. It is not a good idea to have such a lossy system, even if CO2 were free. This is because the CO2 concentration in the water is now a function of the loss mechanisms, not the injected level. If there is a power failure, for instance, the losses caused by turbulence from your filter would cease, and you would risk overdosing on CO2.

In a planted tank with CO2, you don't need the bio-wheel, so just remove it. That will save 1/2 of the CO2 loss. Most of the rest can be eliminated by adding a sliding board return to the outlet of the filter. You can cut one from a PTFE milk jug. It attaches to the outlet with RTV, or CRSS screws. It should be angled about 45 degrees from the vertical, so the water gently slides into the aquarium.


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## JERP (Feb 4, 2003)

I would add the cannister first. Then you can route the plumbing to accomodate a CO2 reactor in the future. It would be a alot less work this way. I'm assuming you are placing an external reactor in-line with the filter output.


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

what is a PTFE milk jug? what is RTV, CRSS???


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## AP (Mar 20, 2004)

Good advice all. Thanks, everyone. Maybe I should just defy the wife and fiscal responsibility, and buy both now.


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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Algae Grower:
> what is a PTFE milk jug? what is RTV, CRSS???


Glossary

CRSS: Corrosion Resistant Stainless Steel, typically 18-8 or type 316 stainless steel.

PTFE: Polytetrafluoroethylene. Wrong ethylene. They don't make milk jugs out of this. I should have said LDPE.

LDPE: Low Density Polyethylene. This is what's in milk jugs.

RTV: Room Temperature Vulcanizing slicone adhesive. Most aquarists are familiar with this one, it's what holds your aquarium together.


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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by AP:
> Good advice all. Thanks, everyone. Maybe I should just defy the wife and fiscal responsibility, and buy both now.


I had my CO2 installed with a Marineland bio-wheel filter for about a year before I bought a canister. It can be done, even with the bio-wheel. I know exactly what the bio-wheel and return cost in CO2 because I experimented with them. I think you should not ignore your fiscal responsibility, and you should also not fight with the wife. You can have it both ways. Get the canister at a later date, when it's financially convenient.


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## Nillo (Jun 11, 2005)

That's right you must pay attention to the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor). I would mod the HOB and add CO2. Just make sure to take out the wheel.


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## AP (Mar 20, 2004)

Yeah, I was not serious about ignoring the WAF, I am not that stupid.









I think I need to be more practical in my choice of canisters, also. I had my heart set on an Eheim pro II. After a little more time to consider, I realize a Classic 2217 or Rena Filstar XP3 will do me just fine, and save me about $100 to boot. And that is near enough to get me going with the CO2.

Thanks again everyone.


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## jpmtotoro (Feb 13, 2003)

i love the rena filstar filters, so i would recommend going with one anyway... from my own experience, i went canister FIRST, then CO2... and when i set up my other tank, i did the same thing again. you can "live" without the extra CO2 for now... i'd personally rather have the quieter filter first (not to mention much better). that's just my 2 cents... either way is ok... but i had success with canister first, PLUS you can run your pressurized CO2 THROUGH your canister filter (put the reactor in line). so it makes sense to get the canister first i believe. i think you need to figure out HOW you're going to add your CO2 first. you'll find it is cheaper and easier to throw a reactor in-line with the canister filter... if you get the CO2 first, how do you plan on adding it to the tank? gonna set up a different set of pipes and a separate filter? it's ok if you do (that's what i do on one tank) but isn't necessary...

JP


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