# Java Ferns just aren't thriving.



## Phil B (May 15, 2016)

Hi everyone, first time here. I've asked this question in the regular fish forum I'm in. So far no luck, so I thought I'd turn to the experts.

I'm oming up on my first year of keeping goldfish in a 75 gal tank. So far the fish are healthy, and the Pothos clipping, moss balls, and Anubias, which while small, is slowly putting out new leaves. The problem is with my Java's, which despite being in the tank for over eight months, just aren't doing anything. If anything they still look more like cuttings than established plants.

Worse, they've been slowly losing leaves. I was rubbing the leaves on my Windelov to remove dying diatoms and managed to pull over several leaves from the center of the plant with dead stems.

Current conditions:

Ammonnia, Nitrites, and Phopspates are all unmeasurable accoridng to my test kit.

Nitrates are around 15-20 ppm. I do 50% water changes once a week.

Lights are from a pair of 48 inch Finnex Stingray's. Both are one for about 5 hours per day while one in on for nine.

I've been adding Flourish, Flourish Excel, and an Iron suppliment for about a month now, alhough I confess I'm probably under dosing on all of them.

So if anyone could offer advice on what to try, I'd be grateful.


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## Phil B (May 15, 2016)

Well thanks everyone. You've been a huge help.


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## Maryland Guppy (Mar 5, 2015)

Sorry no-one responded!

I have a hi-tech tank java fern goes crazy in and my wife's no-tech tank that is just the same but slower growing.
The moderate tech tanks are the problem for me. Seems like CO2 or nothing at all but water changes works for me.


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## Yo-han (Oct 15, 2010)

You don't need excel for java fern. All it needs is PO4, NO3, K and trace elements. Are the brown/dead leaves the old leaves. If so, your plants are missing a mobile nutrient (read: PO4 or NO3) and with zero phosphates this seems very likely... When the dead leaves are new leaves than you miss traces (read: add more flourish trace).


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## Phil B (May 15, 2016)

Thanks for chiming in guys.

The leaves in the photo were older leaves that came loose from the parent plant with a gentle tug. They were around 4-6 inches. Since then, hardly a day passes without finding a newer leaf (usually around two inches or so) floating in the tank, where it has basically rotted off at the base.

Low KH/GH has also been suggested on a Facebook group I belong to, so i have a test kit on its way from Amazon. I'll look into those other supplements you guys mentioned.


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## Phil B (May 15, 2016)

Hmmm, so I should be looking at Phosphate and Trace Element suppliments? I suppose I can increase Nitrates by doing fewer water changes.

As always though its a balance between helping the plants and not harming my fish.


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## Maryland Guppy (Mar 5, 2015)

Flourish Comprehensive and Iron supplement should cover you for trace elements.
Phosphate and Potassium are missing.
Nitrates @ 15-20ppm should be fine.

Seachem makes these missing products but they are expensive.

Would you consider dry ferts and making your own liquids???
Way cheaper buying dry compounds.


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## Phil B (May 15, 2016)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Flourish Comprehensive and Iron supplement should cover you for trace elements.
> Phosphate and Potassium are missing.
> Nitrates @ 15-20ppm should be fine.
> 
> ...


Maybe, if they were guaranteed to be safe for my goldfish. Could you point me to a thread on the subject?


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

The problem may be light. The Finnex Stingray fixtures are not powerful enough for a tall tank like a 75. I use them for low light shallow tanks, like a 20 long or a 40 breeder. Those tanks are only about 12" tall, a 75 is almost twice that. Also, the Stingray has a very narrow beam angle. I have to use two of them on a 40 breeder to get decent light coverage over the entire bottom of the tank. 

To some extent you can compensate for weak lighting by leaving the lights on longer, i.e. increasing the photoperiod. Right now your photoperiod is short. Try running both lights for 11 hours a day. I use a siesta schedule, with lights on from 8 am to 1 pm, then off from 1 pm to 4 pm, then back on from 4 pm to 10 pm. The "siesta" allows CO2 levels to rise after being depleted in the morning lights-on period.

You have very undemanding plants, so I doubt that nutrients are a problem in a goldfish tank. I see three good size goldfish, and they should produce more than enough nutrients for the plants. I suggest increasing the photoperiod without dosing anything at all, and see if that helps. You probably will not see much change for weeks, maybe a month. Be patient.


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## Phil B (May 15, 2016)

Thanks for the advice Michael. I was afraid this was going to involve spending another $$$ on new lighting. That's why I was only getting low light plants.

Naturally I'm open to suggestions on possible replacements for someone on a budget.

My tank isn't terribly deep, measuring about 18 inches from top to bottom, and I'm running a pair of Finnex already. I'll start bumping up the photoperiod to see if that helps.

Heres a shot of my light setup if it helps. This is about an hour before lights out, so only one strip is on.


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## Phil B (May 15, 2016)

Just to let everyone know, my test kit arrived today and I'm getting measurements of 3 KH, and 4 GH. Good? Bad?


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