# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Is this a fair price for a co2 setup?



## Stevenl (Mar 31, 2004)

Today I talked to the owner of my lfs about the co2 system he's selling. Well this lfs is the cheapest place in town and their prices are really cheap, for example a bag of flourite is just 23 Canadian dollars.

Anyway he told me the system comes with a 5lbs aluminum bottle and everything except the solenoid and pH controller. I remember he said it comes with the bottle, regulator, bubble counter, reactor and diffusor. Not sure if it also comes with needle valve, check valve etc that kind of smaller things

The price is 370 Cdn dollars...how is it?
would it be cheaper for me to get the bottle else where and buy the other components from him?

Any advise is appreciated~ thanks~


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## Stevenl (Mar 31, 2004)

Today I talked to the owner of my lfs about the co2 system he's selling. Well this lfs is the cheapest place in town and their prices are really cheap, for example a bag of flourite is just 23 Canadian dollars.

Anyway he told me the system comes with a 5lbs aluminum bottle and everything except the solenoid and pH controller. I remember he said it comes with the bottle, regulator, bubble counter, reactor and diffusor. Not sure if it also comes with needle valve, check valve etc that kind of smaller things

The price is 370 Cdn dollars...how is it?
would it be cheaper for me to get the bottle else where and buy the other components from him?

Any advise is appreciated~ thanks~


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

If you shop around, and colect all the parts yourself it is much much cheaper!!

My system cost me about $150 CAD tops!!

[This message was edited by ekim on Sun April 13 2003 at 07:07 AM.]


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## Stevenl (Mar 31, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by ekim:
> I you shop around, and colect all the parts yourself it is much much cheaper!!
> ...


ekim you bought your components online or locally? can you tell me more about it?

I am not gonna get the system right now but defintiely planning it for the long term.


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

I bought them all locally!

I got a 5 lbs CO2 tank at "Davidson Fire Extinguishers Sales & Service Ltd" 
it was $60CAD/$40US filled!

For the regulator I looked up DIY Wine & beer shops, after about 20 calls I got the best price for $65CAD/$42US. dual gauge, 0-60psi

Most people use Clipard needle valves. They make a great needle valve, from what I hear. It costs about $10 but I can't find a local supplier. I'm using a $2.00 one from Homedepot, it is not very user friendly... hard to fine tune, although I have been using it for about 1 year with no problems. Never lost 1 fish! 

I have posted some DIY reactors on this board, maybe try a search!

good luck


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## qbal18 (Jul 19, 2004)

were ar eyou in vancouver i am not to far out side there, i just bough tmyself a real nice systom but it di dcost me abotu 275 that was with a 20l aluminu bottle fillde thought and an aquarium landscape valve. i am gusing oyu got your prices from king eds if oyu look around ir contact me i know placesa that are cheaper for some stuff.


and ekim what needle valve form home depot did oyu get i woudl be very interested at looking at them and maybe trying 2 of them in series still a lot cheaper then aothers i have found and the lesser quality is ok i just want to T my tank of to my 10g planted guppie tank.
tank specs are in my profile


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## Stevenl (Mar 31, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Qbal18:
> were ar eyou in vancouver i am not to far out side there, i just bough tmyself a real nice systom but it di dcost me abotu 275 that was with a 20l aluminu bottle fillde thought and an aquarium landscape valve. i am gusing oyu got your prices from king eds if oyu look around ir contact me i know placesa that are cheaper for some stuff.
> ...


Yes the price is from king ed

Can you tell me where you get all ur stuff for your system? thanks.


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## qbal18 (Jul 19, 2004)

i got my tank and reg from simgo in surrey tank was $139 $25 to fill reg was $52 i got my needle aquarium valve from bigas for $39 probally get one cheaper but i wanted a good one i build myself a buble counter and reactor and i got co2 line grom big asl for $10 and my check valve (very nice one) there as well $20

tank specs are in my profile


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## Stevenl (Mar 31, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Qbal18:
> i got my tank and reg from simgo in surrey tank was $139 $25 to fill reg was $52 i got my needle aquarium valve from bigas for $39 probally get one cheaper but i wanted a good one i build myself a buble counter and reactor and i got co2 line grom big asl for $10 and my check valve (very nice one) there as well $20
> ...


Thanks Qbal18~

What size is your co2 cylinder? How many pounds is "20l"?


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## walpurgis999 (Feb 6, 2003)

You know the setup they sell from this site is really good and easily fine tuned. I just dont like the regulator they sell.

Shoplights are not an option, the underpower lights, and burn out in the long run.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

But if you live in Canada like these people do walpurgis then it would be very expensive to buy a system from Robert.

Moderator










American by birth, Marine by the grace of God! This post spell checked with IESpell available at http://www.iespell.com

See my Profile for tank details.


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## walpurgis999 (Feb 6, 2003)

Something that I was not aware of, yes that is a problem.

Shoplights are not an option, the underpower lights, and burn out in the long run.


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## qbal18 (Jul 19, 2004)

it is a 20 pound tank

tank specs are in my profile


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

I am not 100% familiar with King Ed's but I have bought a lot of stuff form there, I know Eric & Ron well. What are the brands ect of what they have, I bought most of my stuff from Big Al's cause I want the Tunze IMO best quality available. My total setup cost was around $300 but I got the very best of everything, with exception to a bubble counter, which I do not have yet. Bottle is a New 5lbs Aluminum, Regulator is Tunze with built in needle valve, Tunze C02 Airline Tubing and Tunze Check Valve, as well as a ASU Inline reactor. It's much like the DIY ABS/PVC ones here except it uses clear main pipe so you can see the inside. Also it's a lot more porfessional looking. Let me know if you want anything from Big Al's for a good price, I work there.


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## BobAlston (Jan 23, 2004)

Sounds interesting. But since you are paying Cadillac prices for everything, why not a Parker HR series H0 or H1 metering valve at approx $100 US? The Tunze regulators I saw come with Tunze #7077/2 "fine adjustment valve" which retails for $12 us. I cannot believe that this would have any where the fine control of the above mentioned Parker or Swagelok "S" series.

Would be interested if you have any specs on the needle valve you bought with your tunze regulator.

Bob


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Sorry Bob, I am not familiar with the Parker model your talking about. When I started looking around for something that was nt made for Aquarium Aplication, I found there was too much Micky Mousing to get everything to work properly. Where can I find some info on the Parker one?

As far as the fine adjustemnt valve goes on the Tunze unit, I am not sure of any exact specs on it. I will look at the Unze site for some info and see if there is anything of relevance. As far as the quality of the piece, we have been using them flawlessly for years at work. They can adjust as fine as I have ever desired to, and have never had any of the common problems associated with DIY systems borrowing technology from other industries.

As far as super fine adjustemnt, I have never tried to set them to one bubble a minute or something like that, but I have never seen any reason to. On a Calcium reactor at work, I have set it as low as one bubble per 20 seconds or so, that is as far as I have gotten.

Is there something the Parker one does that I am not aware of? Do you mean it's $100US for just the needle valve?


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## BobAlston (Jan 23, 2004)

Justin -

Go to my primitive web site, scroll down to the entry "CO2 Needle/Metering Valves".

http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/Aquaticplants.htm

Interesting about the needle valve. What pressure do you set the regulator at? Do you have a large turn of the valve to make a small adjustment in flow or is it very touchy and you move the valve minutely to make changes (that is the way my Clippard is)?
Bob


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

I set the regulator at 0.5 bar which is I believe 14psi. This is what the factory reccomend I believe.

I have tried it at 1.5bar which is something like 42psi and the valve is far more sensitive then.

A large turn of that valve, I would consider to be one full turn. One full turn does not change the bubble rate a whole lot. I will play with one tommorow and get you some exact figures.

You can shut the flow completely off with the fine adjustment valve, and it does not say not to anywhere in the instructions manual.

I talked to the Tunze rep comparing Tunze needle valve (fine adjustemnt valve) to Aquarium Landscapes a while ago and he said the AL needle valves were a rip off, as needles vavles are not all that expensive to make. The fine threading is the most expensive, but they make all thier stuff inhouse as far as plastic stuff, so I think he meant they also do thier own metal work. One less middle man I suppose.

Thanks for the link to your site, some very interesting info there. On the bright side, the parker ones seem to be hard to get. Tunze ones are off the shelf. I suppose that is a bonus. I will get bak to you tommorow with some info on turns vs/bubble rate!


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## Stevenl (Mar 31, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Justin604:
> I am not 100% familiar with King Ed's but I have bought a lot of stuff form there, I know Eric & Ron well. What are the brands ect of what they have, I bought most of my stuff from Big Al's cause I want the Tunze IMO best quality available. My total setup cost was around $300 but I got the very best of everything, with exception to a bubble counter, which I do not have yet. Bottle is a New 5lbs Aluminum, Regulator is Tunze with built in needle valve, Tunze C02 Airline Tubing and Tunze Check Valve, as well as a ASU Inline reactor. It's much like the DIY ABS/PVC ones here except it uses clear main pipe so you can see the inside. Also it's a lot more porfessional looking. Let me know if you want anything from Big Al's for a good price, I work there.


Hey Justin, thanks for the info!








300 seems to be a good price for a whole setup
where did you get your cylinder and regulator? 
btw which Big al's you work at?

Steven


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## BobAlston (Jan 23, 2004)

Here is what the Tunze rep wrote me in response to my questions:

I really do not have this sort of information. This regulator is adapted
from an Italian mad ehospital Oxygen regulator and is quite accurate. I can
only say that I am not impressed with the clipper as it is rather fragile
and tempermental, this is much more heavy duty. The valve can fully shut
off the flow. You set a working pressure with a coarse valve and then your
needle valve bubble count. It is designed for use with a Calcium Reactor
which requires far more precise control than a planted aquarium. I use them
myself on my plant tank and I have also used the Marine Depot deluxe as well
the Dupla regulators and find this unit superior to both. In regards to
turns, it has a big adjustment knob and to go from 1-2 bps probably takes
1/4turn. This does depend on working pressure though- we recommend 2bar.

Roger

----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 9:11 PM
Subject: Tunze #7077/2 fine adjustment needle valve

> Can you sent me specs on your needle valve? I am interested in comparing
it
> to alternatives from Parker, Swagelok and clippard.
>
> A graph of the Cv at various valve openings would be valuable?
>
> How many "turns of revolution"?
>
> Can the valve fully shut off the flow?
>
> My application is CO2 injection into a planted tank. I am looking for a
> valve that will give me more adjustment latitude that the Clippard I now
> have. I would like something that allows going from 1 bubble every two
> seconds to 1 per second to 1.5 per second - say over three turns of
> revolution with 15 psi pressure.
>
> So what can you tell me?
>
> Bob Alston
> 918.494.4913
> [email protected]
> http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/
>


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

I only had a second to play with it today, seems we were seriously understaffed for the day, since mondays are usually SUPER slow, today being a holiday, it was a zoo in there. 

I will work with it tommorow for sure and get back to you. Interesting what the Tunze rep says, 2bar operating pressure.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Well played with it a bit today, to do from 1 to 2 bps was about half a turn. HTH


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## BobAlston (Jan 23, 2004)

It would be interesting to know:

How many total "turns of revolution" of the handle are possible?

What is the low flow rate, say 1/4 turn off closed?

How far from closed is the 1 bubble per minute - in terms of handle turns?

Does the flow rate seem to stay constant or does it vary a while after it is set?

so far, this valve seems very interesting to me.

Bob


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Total turns from closed to open fully is 2.5

The low flow rate I have set is one bubble per about 20 seconds. I will however set it 1/4 from closed tommorow and tell you the result.

It does not change from time as far as I have seen.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

I can't nail down a 1 - 2 bps turn as my system is not up and running and I have not been at work for a couple days. Having some issues with my system, need to start a new topic.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

I have it down to about 1/3 a turn from 1 to 2 bps. Not sure if this is specific to my bubble counter or pressure form the bottle.


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## BobAlston (Jan 23, 2004)

Yo Justin.

How is the Tunze needle valve doing?

Ever find time to play with it to answer some of my questions above?

I am still intriegued with it. May be the best needle valve for the price. That would really be a fantastic find.

Bob

High Pressure CO2 sources, needle valves, information:
http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/AquaticPlants.htm#High%20Pressure%20CO2


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