# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Experience w/ vals?



## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

In my new tank, it appears that my vals aren't doing well... Some are nice and bright green, but the ends of them appear frayed and browning. Some of the younger leaves don't have a nice bright green color either. I'm wondering, are these dying off? If so, should I remove them all together before they totally pollute my tank? My water specs are pH of 7.5, KH and GH are at about 8 and 12, respectively, nitrate 0, nitrite .75 and ammonia is at about .5 (both, more than is acceptible). Has anybody else had problems (or success) w/ vals? They're, I belive, "italian" vals and perhaps corcsrew vals (don't know if they're the same thing). Although, they are not "corcscrewing" much...

-ricardo


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## Endlersmom (Feb 29, 2004)

Vals do not like to grow in my tanks.

I think I weaken them with the bleach dip.

I have tried Giant Val (planted a month ago. Not growing but not dead.)

Corkscrew (new growth about 4 inches tal, 2 months in. rest is dead)

straight +10 plants ( 1 month disintigrated)

Everything else grows. Eldona has grown like 18 inches. Swords put out leaves etc.

Vals nothing.

Many have better luck. Some say they are easy. I tried in three tanks.


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## Aquatic addict (Apr 14, 2006)

Corkscrew vals did great in my 1st planted tank. It was a 15 gal tall, no soil (plain gravel with laterite and root tabs) DIY CO2, 15Wx2. They spread across the back of the tank, and would quickly reach 28" in length! They were the only really healthy plants left after a year or so - then I inserted some wax-paper packs of potting soil into my substrate, as Diana describes in her book - and the vals all died within a week! Nothing else was adversely affected, but the vals vanished in a total melt-down. In my new soil set-up, I've planted some vals; too early to tell if they are going to thrive.


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## Erin (Feb 18, 2005)

I have corkscrew vals in two of my tanks and they don't seem to do well either. They don't die, persay, but they certainly aren't growing. They were doing great before my move to soil based tanks, I was using eco-complete & a capped off UGF, less light and DIY CO2. Vals are one of the very few that I have that do well in the transition. At this point I am having more trouble keeping the jungles pruned than what isn't growing!! 

Regards,
Erin


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## Miss Fishy (May 13, 2006)

When I added soil to my 137 gallon tank, the Vals that had been lurking but not growing for many, many months, took off and have turned into huge, juicy green monsters which send runners all over the tank! 

In another tank that started out with soil, babies from the same Vals slowly died. 

In a third tank that started out with soil, some more babies from the same Vals went even more berserk than their parents and now require frequent culling! 

From Alex.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Hardwater plants like Val may be inhibited (or killed) by the organic matter in potting soil. Val like mineral (little organic matter) soils, hardwater, and lots of light.

That's why I advise hobbyists to set up their tanks and not focus on trying to cultivate one plant species. Fill the tank with many plant species and see which species like the conditions you provide.


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

Diana: I reread the section in your book where you discuss your experiments w/ growing vals in soft/acidic vs. hard/alkaline water and was beginning to think that the problem is that my water is not too hard (I believe it was 8dKH and 12dGH) so, as you suggested, I'm gonna wait and see which plants grow and which ones don't. In the mean time, I'm gonna try to track down some C. balansae....

-ricardo


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Cryptocoryne are great aquarium plants and C. balansae is definitely a nice one.

I'd make sure to get some C. wendtii as well.


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## Mr Fishies (Apr 9, 2006)

I've got a question about vals and how people plant them. I know with my plants (v. spiralis), they shoot out runners and are proving quite invasive, but they are staying quite short (8-12 inches max).

I was wondering if I've let them get too dense. When thinning these out, what sort of spacing are other folks trying for? 1-2 in. between plants? I've got a few areas where there are 2-3 plants in about 1 sq in. and I was thinking they may be fighting each other.

I'm not a good gardener, aquatic or terrestrial...I always have a hard time getting ruthless when pruning and thinning is needed!


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

Fishies: I think that as long as they're growing well, it doesn't matter how close together they are. If they get really crowded and start dying, then I would definetly thin it out until you achieve a balance... Other than that, I think it's otherwise an esthetic issue....


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

> Originally posted by Fishies:
> My plants (v. spiralis) shoot out runners and are proving quite invasive, but they are staying quite short (8-12 inches max). I was wondering if I've let them get too dense. QUOTE]
> 
> I don't think planting density affects how tall the plants get. I've seen much denser plantings where the leaves were 1-2 ft long and trailed along the water surface. You may have a short subspecies of V. spiralis.


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

I think that the problem with my vals wasn't that they were dying after being introduced to my tank, but rather that they were stressed from being moved. Since I last reported my problem I have just waited to see. I was about to move some of them last weekend when I noticed that I couldn't easily pull them out of the substrate. I looked more closely and noticed that most of the vals didn't have any dead or dying leaves. On the contrary, I noticed that many of the plants had sent out runners and I now have a good half dozen baby vals! I hope mine grow like Fishies'!

-ricardo


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

I have jungle vals in two of my natural planted tanks that are growing like gangbusters. The corkscrew vals are not doing much so far.


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## Jane of Upton (Jul 28, 2005)

Well, I know the "best" way would be to put lots of plants in and let them sort it out, but if one were bound and determined to grow vals, would it make any sense to leave, say, an area or band of substrate just for them - less organic matter, more minerals (sand or lava crumbles and perhaps some oyster grit) to encourage them?

Or would the hardness of the water column be of more importance?

-J.


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

Jane- I think the hardness of the water column would be ok. In _Ecology_, Diana describes an experiment in which she growns vals in 2 liter bottles. In one of the bottles she grows the vals w/, I believe, baking soda or something similar to increase hardness... in the other just plain water and just based on the pic alone it's clear that the vals w/ the harder water grew better.

Now, if one doesn't have hard water, then adding some sort of Ca (and other hard water nutrients) source would prob. be necessary to ensure good growth.

-ricardo


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## Jane of Upton (Jul 28, 2005)

Ah, but what I was getting at, with asking if a more mineral-rich band of substrate might be worth building in, while setting up a new tank was this:



> Originally posted by Diana Walstad:
> Hardwater plants like Val may be inhibited (or killed) by the organic matter in potting soil. Val like mineral (little organic matter) soils, hardwater, and lots of light.
> .


If one knows that the larger tank conditions might not stay at hard water levels, could one "make up for it" by giving the vals their own little area of sparse substrate with extra minerals. I guess that's what I was really wondering about.
-Jane


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

You know, Jane, I like that idea! (I know, this reply is a long-time coming) How would one add those minerals? I haven't moved my vals in a couple of weeks now and they're doing really well. They're slowly taking over the back right corner of the tank. My water is getting softer though (are the vals breaking down the hard water nutrients to get CO2???) so I'm thinking that I'll try your suggestion just to see if I can help the vals continue to prosper. What do you (or anybody else) think would be good to add to the soil around the vals to provide them w/ those extra minerals?

-ricardo


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

One could try oyster grit, crushed coral, bone meal, cuttle bone-- anything made out of shells or bone would probably work fine. Even Calcium mineral pills sold in the drug store.


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