# dry start ok in NPT?



## mariannep (Mar 18, 2012)

Hello! 

I'm new here, and new to NPT though years ago I decided to keep tanks very naturally and it worked ok for years. Now I want to get back into the hobby and have found abot NPTs  Back then I had different size tanks, with soil and heaters (no filters or pumps at all). I have bought Diana Walstad book (still in the post) in the hope that I can improve and get better results now, mostly better growth and therefore a nicer aquascape.

I have also run into Tom Barr's idea of a dry start, and thought it was great. I'd love to grow a nice lawn! But I worry about the transition into submerged life afterwards in an NPT. Will it work well? Is there a better way to do it? Increase water depth gradually, perhaps?

My idea so far:
- about 260L tank (About 69 USG), open-top
- by a window facing east-southeast (sun for a few hours every morning); might get a lamp if needed
- Some aquarium wood and plants:
- Vallisneria "Curly" (on one side glass only so it doesn't shade the tank much)
- Ceratopteris thalictroides and Rotala rotundifolia indica as back plants (left and right, with an open central bit)
- Eleocharis parvula at the back of the central bit
- Lawn (hopefully) of Hemianthus callitrichoides "Cuba", with bits of Hydrocotyle verticillata and Utricularia graminifolia here and there
- Crytopcoryne wendtii for accent here and there (will be slightly shaded by the C. thalictroides)
- 1-2 Ceratopteris pteridioides to adjust for nutrient levels and get those lovely floating plant roots. 

I suppose I should run a pump/filter or two... and then the gravel is a must, right? As I said before I just got soil from a clean, clayish site and that worked reasonably well. It wasn't very deep. Wish I already had the book!

I'm thinking of Pearl gouramis, couple of ramirezi cichlid, red crystal shrimp and a school of small rasboras as eventual inhabitants. Not sure what algae eater will fit in best.

Anything you think is not a good idea? right now I have only the empty tank and a list to order plants 

Thanks for any ideas and for reading this far!


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Welcome to APC!

Everything in your plan sounds good, with the exception that vallisnera cannot be grown emersed, so that species will need to be planted after the tank is filled. You can check this for the other plants by looking them up in the Plant Finder--there is a special note for each species about whether it can be grown emersed. If you can't find a species there, try posting in the Plant Physiology and Emersed Culture forum.

Many of your questions will be answered by Walstad's book. You will need a gravel cap for your soil, and I think a large biolfilter is a great "safety net" for new tanks. If you do not want to use a filter, do add some power heads to circulate the water.


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## mariannep (Mar 18, 2012)

Thanks, Michael! Actually I was thinking only of growing the lawn plants emersed. Thought I then considered planting the rest and filling only half-way for a while. I think many emerse forms will not do well underwater, so I'm weary of overdoing it.

You're right I should be patient and wait for the book. But... you know how it is when you want to get started... 

Thank you!


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## vicky (Feb 18, 2010)

Here is a link to an article by Diana Walstad regarding dry start vs. wet start in small shrimp tanks: http://www.bookmasters.com/marktplc/00388Shrimp.pdf Even though this refers to small tanks, the same ideas apply to your tank.

You will love the book, and you are on your way to a beautiful, low maintenance tank. Keep writing and send photos when you get it running.


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## mariannep (Mar 18, 2012)

That's very interesting, thank you! Particularly the considerations on substrate for tiny plants, like Hemianthus callitrichoides  

One question.. it seems the sand didn't cover all of the substrate, though then it was covered by the plants. Is the capping layer mostly to keep the soil down or does it have an specific purpose?
I'm not sure I'm going to be able to get gravel of 2-4mm :/

I can't wait to get the book. 

Thanks!


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## vicky (Feb 18, 2010)

Coarser gravel is fine. Sand is OK too, if it is not too thick of a layer. Yes, it holds the dirt down, keeping it out of the water column. Eventually, a biofilm develops on the soil that helps it stick together out of the water column. Between the biofilm and the plants perhaps the dry start tank didn't need complete coverage - or perhaps she added more sand or gravel before flooding. I find if I have presoaked my soil, and removed all floating bits, it takes much less sand/gravel to hold it down. 

I tried DSM with one tank, and don't think I'll be inclined to do so again. I like easy low-tech tanks with non-fussy plants. But it is fun to experiment, too.


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## mariannep (Mar 18, 2012)

Thanks! I think I've seen that biofilm before, when I kept my all soil tanks. What did you find complicated about the dry start? Doing it? Or something about it afterwards? I don't want to overly complicate my life.

The Walstad Book has arrived so I'm devouring as time permits 

And I found a lovely tank that uses the Walstad method but with uncapped soil (no gravel or sand). Looks very intriguing!
http://aqpe-forum.blogspot.com.es/#nabble-td3519171

Cheers!

Marianne


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## vicky (Feb 18, 2010)

Dry start itself isn't complicated, but it works best for fussy carpet plants that don't compete well with other plants when submerged. I'm a lazy fishkeeper. If a particular plant or fish does not do well in my tap water, I look for something else. When I start a tank I put a relatively large variety of plants in it and see what survives. I'm not interested in adding CO2 or using intensive fert routines. Some people have a planted tank with a few fish to help feed them. I have a fish tank with plants to clean the water for them and provide a more natural environment. I understand the desire to raise tricky species, I just don't have time for that at this point in my life. 

Ah, yes, that is a lovely tank. Quite an example of what can be done.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

*Update on Shrimp Tank*

Hello Folks,

I have been busy on a cookbook, but wanted to jump in with today's photo of my two 2 gal DSM tanks. The article on my book's website describes their setup in 2009. Thank you Vickie for posting link.

Today's news. The tanks, plants, and shrimp are doing very well. I have glass shrimp in lefthand tank. Other tank (on the right) has Cherry Shrimp-- there's one on the far right. Shrimp have done well.

The plants that survived are the Dwarf Hairgrass, Dwarf Baby Tears, and the pygmy Anubias. These species took over the tanks.

I have a very gentle bubbler and a little heater pad in each tank. The tanks have had almost no maintenance. Change half of the water every month and do a little pruming...


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## mariannep (Mar 18, 2012)

Thanks for the update! I'm very glad both plants do so well in NPT tanks  
I'm just waiting to get the plants to get started.

Cheers!

Marianne


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## vicky (Feb 18, 2010)

Not surprised to see the DSM tanks are doing well three years out. I post this link fairly often. ;-) Usually to promote the idea of a simple (wet start) bowl for newbies. I currently have six tanks in my home-office, and only one is larger than 5 gallons. They are all different, all easy maintenance, and all bring me joy. I thank you, Diana, for this wonderfully effective method, that works just as well on my 50 gallon plus tanks in the rest of the house.


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## apctjp (Feb 12, 2012)

There is an interesting interview with Diana Walstad

http://www.aquariss.net/intervjui/en-diana-walstad-natural-planted-tanks.html


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## mariannep (Mar 18, 2012)

apctjp said:


> There is an interesting interview with Diana Walstad
> 
> http://www.aquariss.net/intervjui/en-diana-walstad-natural-planted-tanks.html


Thank you! Interesting thing about the plant combination and the soil giving out... mmm...


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## mariannep (Mar 18, 2012)

Progress update...

The HC (Hemianthus callitrichoides is doing so well it's turning into a weed  Eleocharis parvula has grown in height and width and has runners in many places now, but nothing comparable. I was saving the areas with most light for the HC but now I wonder if I should give it more space. What do you think?

I'm including a link to some photos so you get the idea:
https://picasaweb.google.com/101569...&authkey=Gv1sRgCKOK_NfdxtH9Wg&feat=directlink


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## ashfaqe (Sep 21, 2011)

I'm so glad to see your DSM is working out so well! I have HC and Dwarf Hairgrass being delivered tomorrow and this is exactly what I was planning to do. I have a 29 gallon tank that I will set up NPT with a thin sand cap. I can't believe all that HC grew in 2 weeks! I was thinking I'd have to do emergent growth for several weeks. You should start a journal and keep us posted on how it goes when you switch to submerged. It will be very helpful to see your setup a few weeks ahead of mine. Best of luck!


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## mariannep (Mar 18, 2012)

Journal... mmm... Like a blog? Or is there a simpler/better way of doing it?

I agree there's the need to have more of this experiences published - I've been looking around and not finding enough info for my taste (I'm an information hamster...).


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## cherabin (Jul 22, 2005)

It will be very interesting to know how the HC will cope after the flooding of the tank. Please do keep us updated.


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## mariannep (Mar 18, 2012)

Sure. I've actually started a blog about it. I intend to do weekly pictures - plus any extra developments- of the Dry Start and the early submersion, then it'll probably slow down.

See:
http://acalmtank.blogspot.com

I'll also post here, but I thought it'd be useful to have it all together.


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## mariannep (Mar 18, 2012)

Ok, I think I want to try flooding the experimental jug of HC. any thoughts on whether it's better to flood gradually over days rather than all at once? 

Any considerations on the matter will be very welcome.


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## mariannep (Mar 18, 2012)

Update: the water's been slowly rising and all seems fine. The conductivity and PH of the water went up (100 to 300 microseiemens and ph of 6.6 to 7.6 aprox) and a few crypt leaves melted but that's about it so far. Did a smallish waterchange to help conductivity go down when I keep adding water. On saturday I added the first inhabitants, a pearl gourami couple. I worried about them at first, because they weren't doing much but hide... but yesterday they seemed ok and today I find this...










Do you think it's a bubblenest?


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Looks like the answer is yes dry start is okay. 
I always like those fish. Males do get aggressive.


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