# K Defficiency, I'm not sure of it !



## yildirim (Nov 25, 2004)

Hello to all,

I have a problem with my reinecki and polysperma species. I'm observing pinholes on the leaves of these plants but there is no problem with their growth and also no other problems at any of my other plants. Pinholes starts at the leaves below top 5-6 nodes. Tank is a heavily planted 32g-4wpg. Light is very good and even the lover parts of the stems gets good light so I do not consider lihgtning as a problem. From the forums I have read and well known table of defficiencies I know that main problem of pinholes is Potassium (K). But in my case I'm not sure of it, because I make daily dosing of all the nutrients and my K dosing is app. 10ppm daily. I do not have the possibility of testing K as no kits are available here. My other water parameters are like these:

pH:6,6-6,7
gH:9
Fe:0,4-0,5
NO3:10
PO4:3,5-4
Weekly 40% water changes.

Above parameters do not fluctuate and usualy exactly the same troughout the week, as far as I can tell by using two different brands of test kits.

Any comments why these are happening to the 2 specific plants and how can I prevent it will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
YILDIRIM OZDEMIR


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## yildirim (Nov 25, 2004)

*K defficiency ???*

Hello again,

No comments realy dissappoints me.:sad: My hygrophilia and alternenthera also will be sad.

YILDIRIM


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

I can't comment on whether it's K deficiency or not, but you can certainly check it out easily enough by adding some more K to your tank and see if symptoms improve. 

The other thing to rule out is whether or not the pinholes might be caused by a critter, such as a snail, perhaps?


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## yildirim (Nov 25, 2004)

*K defficiency ???*

Thx bert,

I dont have a snail problem and I also increased K dosing 50% gradually in last 3 weeks but nothing has changed yet. I'm not sure if I have to wait for longer to see the results, I was hoping that it would be enough time. The leaves after the 5th or 6th node still having these pinholes and after that the leaves are infected with GSA resulting a very unsighty look.

I was also suspicious about Ca/Mg, I checked with water administration and it is about 30/7 mg/l. My gH is very stable at 9 degrees. So I don't think that this may cause the problem.

Trying to find cause and solution.

THX. YILDIRIM


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

My guess is a critter or maybe even the fish. I think a fast-grower like hygro should respond very quickly to fixing a K deficiency.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

30/7 mg/l is fairly low for both calcium and magnesium. Are either of these two nutrients included in your daily dosing? Calcium is not likely to be the cause of your troubles, since its deficiency symptoms show up at the growing tips, but magnesium deficiency symptoms do show up in the older leaves. 

Could you get a picture of the symptoms?


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

Try adding a bit more CO2 and dose about 2x the KNO3 you have been.

Then tell me what occurs.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## yildirim (Nov 25, 2004)

Hello friends,

Thx for the replies and my response will be as follows:

1. I don't have snails or any other critters. My fish load is only rasporas, siamensis and ottocinclus. Totaly they are around 20pcs. I don't think that they may cause any problems.

2. I have checked the Ca defficiency problems from the net and I do not believe that Ca is an issue. So I only dose Mg daily (weekly total is around 10ppm).

3. I'll try to post some pictures soon as I dont have a cam now.

4. My CO2 is around 30-40 ppm from DIY bottle. But I'm planning to switch to pressurized in 2 months.

5. In fact my NO3 has never dropped lover than 10 ppm and I always feared of increasing it because of algea issues. I already got some minor problems with GSA. Can you please (Tom Barr) explain me why you want 2X KNO3 which will increase my KNO3 levels to around 20ppms and also will it not be a cause for more algea?

THX to everyone.

YILDIRIM


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

20 ppm is the 'general consensus' that most people here seem to use.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Nutrient excesses do not cause algae. There are 3 main causes of algae; free ammonia(NH3/NH4), high levels of dissolved organics (which often result in free ammonia) and deficient nutrient levels (when the plants don't have the nutrients they need, they will slow their growth allowing algae to out compete the plants)

Adding more KNO3 will make sure you have enough NO3 and will add enough K if that is what is missing. However, if yuo don't need more of those nutrients, it will not hurt anything to have extra so it doesnot matter....

Make doubly sure your Co2 levels are where you think they are. Often inaccuracies in test kits and false readings due to water chemistry will make you think you have more CO2 than you actually do.


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

Adding some PO4 may also help as well as consistent CO2 for the GSA.
the holes though, that is either NO3(most commonly) and perhaps K+(rarer).

Most test kits are very sad in their accuracy and many, actually far too many based their entire dosing routines on a bad test kit they spend 3-8$ for then wonder why they have trouble keeping plants healthy over time.

You can calibrate the test kit by seeing if it is accurate with known standards of NO3 etc, but that is typically more than many aquarist want to chew off.

So they either assume the kit is correct or that some other brand is good enough and go from there.

But your plants are a much better test kit.
Simpkly doing weekly water changes, say 50% + dosing say 20ppm a week will maintain a a good level for your tank, if you have higher light, you can add more, it will not hurt till you get above 60-80ppm NO3.
Most folks easily maintain a 10-30ppm range dosing 1/4 teaspoon KNO3 2-3x a week per 80 liters of tank, this adds about 10ppm per dose.
A 50% weekly water changes prevents any build up and the frequent dosing prevents any deficiency.
Then you no longer need a test kit.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## yildirim (Nov 25, 2004)

*2 more questions*

Hello to all,

Thx to everybody for their comments. But now I have 2 more questions. So,

1. Regarding to Tom's comments, I do not believe the K is the problem here either, and I have never tought of NO3 could cause this problem. That is new for me and I already started to increase my NO3 dosing gradualy. But I'm confused because of some replies to my and other peoples some other posts. I have read that "providing measurable values" rather than achieving a predefined value for the nutrients was essential. As for my readings I have 10 ppm of NO3 and it is a pretty measurable value. Conflicting with the measurable value idea why must I aim a higher value such as 20ppm? Isn't it the important thing not to have zero values? How can this change from 10ppm to 20ppm may have an effect on the plants taking nutrients? Regarding the measurements I'm pretty sure for the values as I use both Sera and Redsea NO3 and PO4 test kits and also asked a friend using Tetra test and all three tests came app. with the same results. This is my first but long question.

2. My 2nd question is regarding to a new development at my A. reinecki which is also my main concern in all these posts. I have never seen this kind of a leaf shape before. The leaves usualy stays with a "V" shape trough the light and angle of the "V" changes within the day closing completely at lights off time. But at my reineckis I have seen that leaves of top 1 or 2 nodes are staying just like "^" since 2 days. Have you ever observed something like this and why is that happening?

I have to tell that my all other plants are very healthy and groving very well. My reinecki is also growing very fast and bushy with planty of leaves. But this problem of pinholes and a new problem I have mentioned in my second question really bothers me a lot.

Any comments will be greatly appreciated.

Thx
YILDIRIM


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

As to your first question the answer is yes..... and no. It is crucial to not let the nitrogen crash. I managed to do this and the resultant plant die-off in my aquarium was swift and quite impressive. The plants take a LONG time to recover. I then started dosing things willy-nilly without good test kits and without a real good idea of what I was doing. The algae responded quite well.  There are plenty of people out there that are shooting for 10 ppm NO3. For me, that's a bit on the low end since a day or two of neglect could cause the nitrates to fall to <5. At that point growth really slows and algae starts to win. Also, plants love their nitrates and phosphates. Growth at 20 ppm is faster than at 10 ppm - just like you get fatter on 5 meals a day than on 3. Faster growth = less chance for algae to take over.

As to your second question - I have no personal experience with this and no idea what to suggest.


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