# Options for the best low-med cost substrate



## Rainbow (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi

After reading all sorts of posts about substrates over the last week or so, I am now rather clouded about things. Can you help me make the right choice ? I want to get this right first time....if possible!

My tank specifics (tank not yet started):
36x20x19 60G tank
Fluval FX6 filter
Hydor external heater
FE C02 w/UP inline atomizer
med-high lighting
EI dry ferts

Basically I don't want to spend megabucks on a substrate. I have calculated that I'm going to need in the region of 25L of substrate and if I opt for a complete substrate (eg ADA etc) then it's going to break the bank.

So I have the following options:
1) Inert sand and/or gravel
2) Soil capped with inert sand and/or gravel
3) A compound substrate (i.e JBL aquabasis plus) capped with inert sand or gravel
4) A 'higher tech' substrate (i.e eco-complete)
5) Soil capped with a 'higher tech' substrate
6) A compound substrate capped with a 'higher tech' substrate

I have read quite a few posts which suggest that if you are dosing EI to the water column then it's not so important which type of substrate format to choose. I am aware that having a source of nutrients available to the roots in the substrate can only help the plants.

I am hoping to find a solution that will be suitable for shrimps, will not raise PH KH or GH, or cause too much of a mess or upset the balance if I decide I want to move a plant.

Before writing this post I had almost decided on option no. 3) but then fell back into the abyss.

Can anybody who has more experience help me make an informed decision please ?

That would be most appreciated!

Thank you

Paul


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## junglefowl (Nov 16, 2012)

I would go with a higher tech substrate in your situation.

Since you have EI dry ferts and plan to use. You don't need any more fertilizers in compound substrate or soil. You will have plenty of ferts in EI dosing. You might want to consider using root tabs as well to put under the substrate for heavily planted tank...to feed the plant's root.

In my experience, I like Eco complete...more options are Flourite or Floramax


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## Rainbow (Feb 25, 2013)

> You don't need any more fertilizers in compound substrate or soil. You will have plenty of ferts in EI dosing. You might want to consider using root tabs as well to put under the substrate for heavily planted tank...to feed the plant's root.


In which case, could I not just do this with a plain sand or gravel at a much cheaper price ?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Paul,

Natural gravel is certainly an option but I much prefer the heat treated montmorillonite clay as substrates; they are inexpensive (like gravel) and have very high cation exchange capacities (unlike gravel) which allows them to absorb nutrients from the water column and make them available in the root zone.

Some of the ones liked are discontinued like Soilmaster Select charcoal color and Turface Pro League grey color. Currently I am using Safe T Sorb #7341 ($12.65 for 40# at WW Grainger). It is very "dusty" (I screen mine before use) and requires multiple rinses before the first use but after that is isn't an issue.

BTW, I like your user name; 'bows are one of my favorite species along with Apistos. Currently I have 40+ Melanotaenia boesemani 'Lake Aytinjo' 4 month old fry from eggs I got from Gary Lange and some Melanotaenia lacustris (Turquoise Rainbow).










10 gallon









20 gallon









75 gallon


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## TankAaron (Aug 8, 2014)

Hello Rainbow,

I am not an expert in gravels. I've only ever used Flourite. However, I like math! And here is what I came up with on a quick search:

At DrsFosterSmith:

Flourite 15.4 Lbs bag, for $16.66 = approx. $1.08 per pound
Eco-Complete 20 Lbs bag, for $26.52 = approx. $1.33 per pound
CaribSea gravel, or sand 20 Lbs bag, for $18.75 = approx. $0.94 per pound

At BigAlsPets:

Eco-Complete 20 Lbs bag, $19.99 = approx. $1.00 per pound
CaribSea gravel, or black sand 50 Lbs bag, $34.99 = approx. $0.70 per pound

If you are mostly worried about price, it seems that CaribSea planted tank gravel, or sand will be most cost effective. If you include shipping, any purchase over $49 ships free, with DrsFosterSmith. For the amount of substrate you need even for a 2" bed on your size of aquarium will guarantee free shipping. With BigAlsPets, you'll need a purchase of over $70. I'm guessing that would also be free if you buy all the substrate you'll need at once.

Seachem has a calculator, at the very bottom of the link, so you know how many bags you'll need. For a 2" bed, you'd need four bags. At DrsFosterSmith, that covers the shipping minimum requirement.

If you turn that into pounds, 6 bags = 92.4 pounds. So you would need two 50 lbs bags of the CaribSea sand for similar amount. At BigAlsPets, you'd be two cents shy. I'm guessing that if you call customer service, they may waive the two cents difference. I've never purchased from BigAl's, but I've heard they're pretty good, so you could try.

Another way to look at it is like this: The four Flourite bags would cost you $66.64, and the two bags of sand would cost you $69.98. You'd get slightly more with the sand, but you may have to pay the shipping.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

For price and over-all performance, Safe-T-Sorb gets my vote. Roy first suggested it in another thread, and I have been using it ever since.


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## BigJay180 (Aug 13, 2014)

Personally? I went with Activ Flora, and soil substrate below that. I'm only going to do this once, and I want it done right.

I'm not sure the inline heater you want is going to work with an FX6. The internal diameter on the fluval is too big (25mm), and the hydor only has a 16mm hose barb. That won't work unless you build a custom manifold or a step-down. I went with an Eheim instead, because it just fit out of the box.


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## Rainbow (Feb 25, 2013)

Oh dear! 

Thanks for pointing that out BigJay180. That's an oversight on my part, I assumed it was 16mm. What size is your tank and which eheim filter did you use? I think I might send the FX6 back because I also have 16mm lily pipes, 16mm atomizer to fit as well, it's just a question of finding a filter which has a high enough flow rate (I've heard 10x is suggested so that would be 2300lph) with 16mm pipes...don't think such a thing exists tbh 

Sorry the thread has gone off on a tangent!

Substrate wise, I'm going to have to keep my costs down, so I think I'm going to use Osmocote, topped with 1.5" moler clay and 1.5" of black inert gravel, and combine this with the use of root tabs when and if required. I reckon that I can save almost half the cost of a complete substrate doing it this way.

Paul


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## BigJay180 (Aug 13, 2014)

I have an Eheim Pro 2 running with the external heater on one side of the tank, and a Fluval FX6 on the other side. Together they turn the water over plenty, and keep the plant mulm down in my 180 gallon down to a minimum. I would recommend anything Eheim if you can afford it.

PS: Yes, I love rainbows as well. I have four red/milleniums in my tank, and the males look absolutely stunning.



Rainbow said:


> Oh dear!
> 
> Thanks for pointing that out BigJay180. That's an oversight on my part, I assumed it was 16mm. What size is your tank and which eheim filter did you use? I think I might send the FX6 back because I also have 16mm lily pipes, 16mm atomizer to fit as well, it's just a question of finding a filter which has a high enough flow rate (I've heard 10x is suggested so that would be 2300lph) with 16mm pipes...don't think such a thing exists tbh
> 
> ...


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## DanD5303 (Oct 12, 2004)

I'd use the Safe T Sorb and poke in some root tabs where needed. I haven't done a dirt tank but based on what I've read on this forum there seem to be several potential problems if you don't do everything just right.


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## jrIL (Apr 23, 2005)

Blasting sand from tractor supply. Will never use anything else.


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## pandragon (Jul 10, 2014)

Even with blasting sand you still need nutrients for the plants. Mineralized top soil works well here since it can be cheaper than dosing ferts, So mts under some kind of cheap blasting/all purpose sand from wherever you can get it cheaply works well. Or you can us the poor mans flourite, aka special kitty at litter unscented from walmart. to cap  Good luck finding what works for you!


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

Many years ago I started using Dupla or Tetra's Laterite with with great success. Since then I tried the soil method and simply hated it every time I moved ot thinned any plants out that reproduced with runners. 

My one gallon tanks now 48" X 24" is set up using a mixture of 2 bags of Seachems Florite with 3 boxes of API Laterlite, and 100 pounds of the finest flint gravel I could find. 

On seting it up I started with a layer from one box of Laterlite, Then a layer of the laterlite mixed a bags of the florite the next layer was a mix of the three and then the final layer of about half inch was pure red flint gravel.


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## pandragon (Jul 10, 2014)

Where in the world did you find flint gravel? I know what flint is, but have never seen it in gravel form and rarely have I seen it in nature where I have lived past or present, definitely not enough to put in any size aquarium...


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

pandragon said:


> Where in the world did you find flint gravel? I know what flint is, but have never seen it in gravel form and rarely have I seen it in nature where I have lived past or present, definitely not enough to put in any size aquarium...


When I had my shop I used to bring in by the truck loads. Most local aquarium stores around here sell it. On the bag is a reference for more information to check out WWW.RedFlint.com. So that might help you.

I have been using this material for over 40 years and I strongly recommend it. Another product I loved but cannot find now at a reasonable price used be called black diamond gravel. It supposedly was a potash bi product and came in fairly fine material which I would estimate about the same particle size as the #30 red flint. When mixed with the red flint it creates a great dark base that accents most plants. But I always used a larerlite mixed with these in all but the top 1/2 to 1 inch.


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## pandragon (Jul 10, 2014)

That sounds pretty cool, too bad I only have lowes, home depot, and walmart near me. I have never heard of anything similar to what you have described in local stores around her in northern California. Laterite is very expensive and only available online from where I live, so mineralized local or generic top soil and special kitty or other cheap widely available brand of clay is about as good as I have found so far. 

Others may only be able to find similar products do to availability. I think you are lucky in your substrate options TropTrea and I wish you luck on all you tanks past, present, and future. I wonder if flint isn't available everywhere do to its tenancy to spark if rubbed against the right material? It could just be a local thing too, if flint isn't mined heavily it won't be readily available in local stores. It is strange how some items will be available for half the us, and/or other countries, but not the rest of the us.


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

I'm surprised that Red Flint Gravel is not available at least throughout the United States. It is sold here in pool supply stores as filter sand and at aquarium stores in various grain sizes. Besides that it is also used in sand blasting. 

I have never seen any sparks from it but will say that it needs to rinsed out before use unless you want a cloudy tank for the first few days. 

What I would love to find is the old black diamond gravel. It used to be sold as a byproduct from coal electric power plants and was often used for grip on icy streets. Then they had a purified version that was ideal for aquariums ind was inert. It also was available in various grain sizes and I loved the second smallest size grains. Mixed with red flint gravel if gave a much darker look to the substrate. The only black gravel I can find today is much coarser in texture, does not have the shine to it, and is way more expensive.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

The types of gravel and other natural stone available in a particular location often depends on the local geology. Locally produced stone is cheap because of low transportation costs. But if I tried to get red flint from Wisconsin here in Texas, it would cost an arm and a leg. Pandragon, if there are any stone yards or dealers in your area, check with them. The selection will be better than at the big boxes.

TropTrea, if you have a Tractor Supply store in your area, they probably will carry Black Diamond blasting medium. I believe that this is the same coal slag you used previously.


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## pandragon (Jul 10, 2014)

Thanks Michael! I will probably do that next time I do a larger tank. Most of what I have seen around me sells some kind of quartz sand in various sizes or various colors of gravel, without mentioning what kind of mineral it is from or if it is inert or will leach lots of calcium or other minerals. I could possibly get some answers by grilling someone from the local rock seller, or get another no nothing who just digs up rock and sells by color...:\


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