# A productive ditch in Central Mississippi



## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

A lot of the ditches in the Jackson, Mississippi area have lost the variety of aquarium plants they used to have because they have been taken over by either a _Polygonum_ species or _Alternanthera philoxeroides_ Alligator weed. We have had several years with below normal rainfall which may have contributed to the loss of other species, or the species that used to be there (_Ludwigia, Micranthemum_ etc.) are pioneer species that get replaced in a process of succession. So, I was glad to run across a new ditch that was created about a year and a half ago that has already acquired an interesting variety of plants. It was created when a bicycle path was put in last fall and the path blocked water flow from a woods creating standing water about 6 inches deep along the path. _Ludwigia palustris_ showed up early this spring and grew with astonishing rapidity. At first I thought that _Ludwigia_ was the only plant, but closer examination showed a number of other species. had also made it there in only one season. I found _Ludwigia glandulosa_, _Bacopa routundifolia_, _Lindernia dubia_, an _Ammannia_ species, Ditch stonecrop (_Penthorum sedoides_), a possible _Mimulus_ species and some _Polygonium_. Photos, below show all but the _Polygonum_.










This photo shows the extensive growth of _Ludwigia palustris_. There is a _Ludwigia glandulosa_ plant in the lower right corner that I did not recognize when I took the picture.


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## oregon aqua (Jan 30, 2008)

What a great find and nice pictures.


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

Very nice. So cool! I'll be exploring some lakes and ponds in the Sierra foothills soon for some aquatic plants. Will share some photos then too.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

What a find! As I look at your pxs. it occurs to me that I would not even know what I am looking at. I only recognize the immersed versions of the plants. The emmersed versions can look so different.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

I find it very useful to stand at the edge of the water and look over the plants with binoculars. Most binoculars made these days can focus as close as five or six feet. I never would have seen the Bacopa or the Lindernia if I hadn't had binoculars.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

The Ditch Stonecrop can be grown submersed. See this thread :http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plant-id/7167-wisconsin-native-id.html


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

Very cool. Thanks for sharing man.  Have you tried the Ammannia species or the Bacopa rotundifolia submersed yet?


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Very cool Paul. Have you determined whether the _Ammani_a is _A. coccinea _or _A. ariculata_? I had one of them once, but it got smothered among the other weeds. They are worth a shot in any case.

Some of the _L. dubia _was growing submersed? We found some of it growing that way up here. It's a very nice plant.

The _Penthrorum_ will grow as a somewhat small creeping foreground stem if it gets a lot of light. With less, it grows larger and taller.

I'd try the _Bacopa rotundifolia _submersed for sure.


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## marrow (Mar 4, 2007)

Thanks for the great pictures and thanks even more for labeling the plants. Great job.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Do you still have any of those plants Paul? I think the _Bacopa_ in particular is interesting.


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## kiwik (Apr 3, 2007)

do you ever have to go buy plants?


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

> Do you still have any of those plants Paul? I think the Bacopa in particular is interesting.


I have not been able to find the Bacopa, but I collected the others plus a few more plants not shown in the pictures that might or might not be able to be grown submersed. . I gave them 4 minutes in 5% bleach and then floated them in my guppy tank. They all took the bleach treatment with no visible damage and most have grown roots. The only one that has not rooted is the _Ammania_ species, which looks like _A. coccinea_ to me. The _Ammania_ stem is still alive, but I think it is a victim of senescence, as the plants in the ditch have mostly turned brown and are dropping seeds. The _Lindernia_ stems do not look very likely to be grown submersed, as all the leaves below the water surface have died and all the new growth is emersed.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Are the flowers of the _Ammania_ right up against the stem on very short pedicels? If so, it is _A. coccinea_. Of not, _A. ariculata_.

That's strange that the _L. dubia_ is having trouble. I've grown it submersed for long periods without issue. It didn't really even have trouble adapting. In fact, we even found it growing submersed this past summer. It may be that you're seeing a subspecies less capable of submersed growth or something to that effect. There is a closely related species with flowers on longer pedicels, but as far as I know, it isn't found in habitats that are so wet in the first place. Strange.

According to Missouriplants.com, _Bacopa rotundifolia_ _*does*_ grow submersed, so keep your eye out for it.


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## jaidexl (Jan 20, 2007)

Great shots, thanks for the labels, HeyPK, I think you might have helped me out on a few I've been trying to ID.

Speaking of which, do you think this is B. rotundifolia? http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/760/bacopajg1.jpg


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

No, It may be a Bacopa, but it isn't rotundifolia. Here is a good picture of B. rotundifolia collected in Florida. The picture, taken by bms (Benicio Sanchez), is in the Native Plants section.


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## jaidexl (Jan 20, 2007)

Thanks for the info. Bummers, I can't figure this one out.


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## batterup (Sep 21, 2008)

Dont know what that is but have collected it in south east texas


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Your plant could be Bacopa caroliniana. Does it have an aromatic smell if you crush a leaf? If it does, then it is definitely B. caroliniana.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

I have had the plants collected from the new ditch plus a plant of Lobelia cardinalis collected from a cypress swamp about 20 miles north of Jackson floating in my guppy tank for about a month and a half. The tank is already overcrowded with plants, and so the floated plants (all initially treated with 5% bleach for four minutes) all grew out of the water with the exception of the Lobelia. I took them all out today and planted them submersed in a well lit 75 gallon tank. We shall see how they do. Here are pictures of the plants just before I planted them in the 75 gallon tank.

_Penthorum sedoides_ (Ditch Stonecrop) This plant grew a lot in the guppy tank and produced a lot of roots









_Ludwigia palustris_ and two small plants. The small plant to the left is all that is left of the _Ammania coccina_. the one to the right is a little plant of _Lindernia dubia_. 









_Ludwigia glandulosa_. This stem tripled its length, but lost all its underwater leaves. 









The two little plants, enlarged. _Lindernia_ to the left and _Ammania coccina_ to the right (picture was rotated 180 degrees)









The _Lobelia cardinalis_ plant from the cypress swamp. Its growth is all submersed, and it has only produced little stubs of roots. 









_Lindernia dubia_ to the left and _Ranunculus laxicaulis_ to the right The main plant of the Ranunculus is at the bottom of the picture, and the runner that grew from it grew entirely after the plant was placed in the guppy tank. The runner and its leaves were submersed.


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## customdrumfinishes (Apr 1, 2008)

there are alot of these plants growing here in the rivers and ponds here in south carolina. i have got alot of bacopa carolinia,ludwigia repens x, hornwort,duckweed and ammannia.

the bacopa and repens grew great after a few weeks. others didnt do so well.

fissidens also grows around here in swamps and rivers. 

haveyou checked the ph,kh,gh of the ditch? ive found the river here to have a ph in the 7's


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

I have not checked the water yet, as the ditch has been dry most of the late summer and fall. We are getting some rain now. Maybe when I come back from the AGA convention, there will be water there. I am most interested to find out the iron content of the water.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Here are the plants about 3 weeks after they were planted in my 75 gal. All that stuff that looks like snow is Daphnia swimming in the water. All the plants seem to be adapting quite well to submersed growth.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

Nice updates Paul.  That Ranunculus is really nice looking.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

I think all of them have potential to be nice aquarium plants. The _Ammannia coccinea_ plant is slow growing, but quite decorative. Since I have planted it, the stem has become much thicker and the whole plant seems to have enlarged. The _Ranunculus_ runner has continued to produce new plants, and the older plants on the runner have put up new leaves. I am going to see what happens when I separate the plants by cutting the runner. I assume that some time they will start runners of their own. _Lindernia dubia_ looks like it would make a nice aquarium plant when planted in groups of five to ten plants. _Penthorum sedoides_ is already growing in a bunch, and looks nice and has an advantage that it grows slowly and does not have to be trimmed back frequently.

The _Lobelia cardinalis_ plant has not grown much yet. Interestingly, it is a well known aquarium plant, but it has had more difficulty getting started than the others, which are relatively unknown.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: A productive ditch in Central Mississippi update 2*

One month later, the plants in the aquarium look like this:



















Of them all, I still think that _P. sedoides_ is the nicest aquarium plant. It grows slowly enough that it does not need to be pruned frequently and it grows in a dense group withoug shedding its lower, shaded leaves. The _Ludwigia palustris_ is growing an inch a day and looks a little leggy in spite of 190 watts of compact fluorescent light. It needs to be pruned and replanted frequently. The _Lindernia dubia_ grows straight up, looks a little leggy, and tends to lose its lower leaves. It will only look good if planted in tight groups and given strong light. _Ammannia coccinea_ continues to grow slowly. I think it looks its best when it is only a few inches high. _Lobelia cardinalis_ is growing very slowly, but it is growing and showing no signs of poor health. _Ranunculus laxicaulis_ is still extending its runner and putting out new leaves from each plant along the runner. There is no sign yet of any secondary runners coming off of the plants along the primary runner.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

That's interesting. _Penthorum sedoides_ is indeed nice. Whenever I've grown it, it has become a foreground creeper, as it has for a few other people I've given it to. Perhaps with more light it would do the same for you. Not that it can't be nice growing up!

The _Lindernia dubia_ isn't always so leggy in my experience, but it does do best with a whole lot of light.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Perhaps we have different varieties. Do you have any of yours left?


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

I have some, but it's stuff I collected locally last summer and have been growing emersed. I'll try some submersed in a little bit.


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## Coralite (Nov 29, 2008)

I used to collect so many of these plants back when I lived in SC. I really miss just being able to make a day out of driving around and stopping at random water bodies. It always amazed me how the fauna and flora could be so different from one water body to the next, even if they were tens of yards away. Anyway, thanks for sharing, it brings back memories. 
All of the plants you collected seem to be pretty interesting, each in their own respect. I love the _Ammania sp_.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

jaidexl said:


> Great shots, thanks for the labels, HeyPK, I think you might have helped me out on a few I've been trying to ID.
> 
> Speaking of which, do you think this is B. rotundifolia? http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/760/bacopajg1.jpg


You found that locally? Any more pics?


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

There was a patch of B routundifolia in this ditch, and I have seen it in a number of ditches in the area. However when I went to look for it this fall (October), I couldn't find any anywhere. Maybe it goes to seed and dies out in the fall. I will keep an eye out for it.


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## jaidexl (Jan 20, 2007)

Cavan Allen said:


> You found that locally? Any more pics?


Yep, down in 34134. Unfortunately, I don't have any more pics and I didn't give that plant enough attention. I might be able to grab some more.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

OK, cool. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out the ID from that. There are only 2 or 3 possibilities.


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## FrostyNYC (Dec 16, 2007)

This is incredibly fascinating. Living in NY, I'm envious of those of you who have tropical aquatic plants growing right outside your doors.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

FrostyNYC said:


> This is incredibly fascinating. Living in NY, I'm envious of those of you who have tropical aquatic plants growing right outside your doors.


Don't feel too bad. The State of New York has a lot of known and still-to-be-discovered aquarium plants. In my experience, northern lakes and ponds have a lot more submersed aquatic plants than southern ones.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: A productive ditch in Central Mississippi Feb. visit*

I visited the ditch yesterday, Feb 8, and some plants are starting to grow. The vast carpet of Ludwigia is nearly all gone, and only a few plants can be found. The most prominant plant getting started is the bright green Ditch stonecrop, _Penthorum sedoides_. Some of the leaves of this plant appear quite spikey, like holly leaves. A little _Polygonum_ is also showing up

Penthorum?









Ludwigia









Some of the Ludwigia is developing elongated leaves. I can't get it to do this in the aquarium.


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## maxima (Feb 23, 2009)

Oh my, not to lead the thread in an offtopic direction or something but how on earth did you get in there ?
I'd be scared of snakes, gators and who knows what else is in there 
Really beautiful but kinda creepy.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

No problem with snakes or anything like that. In the summer the mosquitoes can be bad, but that is the only thing to worry about. I take these pictures from the edge of a bicycle path that was put in about a year and a half ago. The path interrupts the drainage and creates the pools. The lighting is just right for aquatic plants---partial sun. Full shade is too dark and full sun supports such a heavy growth of grasses and sedges that the submersed or partially submersed aquatics are crowded out.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Well, it looks like the _Penthorum_ you sent me really does grow differently Paul. The stuff I've found in Maryland and Pennsylvania grows mostly creeping, has shorter internodes, and is generally smaller. Perhaps it's the same as with _Rotala mexicana_, in that different forms grow in different ways.


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## miremonster (Mar 26, 2006)

The supposed Penthorum on Paul's photo seems to have decussate leaf arrangement. But as far as I know Penthorum has (mostly?) dispersed leaf arrangement.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

You must be looking at a different plant. Both have alternate leaves.


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## miremonster (Mar 26, 2006)

Hello Cavan, 
I'm looking at this photo:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...ures/displayimage.php?imageid=5879&original=1
I don't know how to insert arrows or lines into the pic - I think e.g. the stem near the middle of the pic has decussate leaves.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Hmm.. I don't know. If you look at all the other pics Paul has posted in this thread, emersed or submersed, they definitely have alternate leaves. So is the stuff he sent me to grow. So the plants in the photo you linked are really something else, the leaves aren't quite opposite like they appear, or this species' leaf arrangement is a bit flexible while maturing like some Ludwigias. That's what I think anyway.


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## miremonster (Mar 26, 2006)

Also the large, distantly set teeth on the leaf margin look suspect to me. The Penthorum on Paul's other pics (I agree, clearly alternate leaves) has apparently more densely and rather shallowly serrate leaf margins. 
Perhaps Paul could pick up a bit and/or make closeup pics of the mystery plant when he visits the place again?


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Yes, I hope he can grab some of that stuff. Looks neat!

Paul,

How is your _A. coccinea_ doing? It definitely grows submersed, but won't grow side shoots for me. Ever! I still only have the one stem I brought back from Georgia. No side shoots on its own (but plenty of submersed flowers) and none arising after trimming. Too bad, because it can look rather nice. Bah... I'd like to see how the two really similar species do if I can find them.


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## jaidexl (Jan 20, 2007)

Paul, Cavan sent me a picture of Bacopa repens and I was able to find these images of B. rotundifolia while researching, http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi-b...&where-taxon=Bacopa+rotundifolia&where-anno=1

These two species look pretty much spot on with what I found (posted on page 2). I'm trying to get back soon to see if I can grab more and take some pictures, and hopefully see flowers. Here's the spot I found it at, 26.381426, -81.819637, might I have found the first account of this species (one or the other) in FL??  Neither plants.usda or plants.ifas.ufl.edu list either one down here.

I'm going to have to start researching the differences between the two.


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## jaidexl (Jan 20, 2007)

Scratch that, the Atlas of Florida Vascular Plants lists vouchered specimens of B. repens in Collier county, exactly where I found it. http://florida.plantatlas.usf.edu/Plant.aspx?id=4233
Good call, Cavan 

Edit: Oh, and I just noticed you [HeyPK] stated your B. rotundifolia was collected here also, I guess a few sites have some catching up to do.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

According to a book I've got here, _B. rotundifolia_ has leaves that are wider at the base and flowers with a yellow throat. _B. repens_ also has flowers that droop when in fruit. There's more of course, and I can send you some info later today. Cool stuff.


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## apm (Jul 1, 2009)

man i wish theres stuff like this up here in the north.. (canada) unfortunatly only stuff ive found was hornwort and hockey =p


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## Tausendblatt (Sep 16, 2009)

apm said:


> man i wish theres stuff like this up here in the north.. (canada) unfortunatly only stuff ive found was hornwort and hockey =p


OH man :lalala: I live in Alberta and I find a relative abundance of species!

You have not been looking hard enough! I have found the following in the city limits of my town:

-Potamogeton alpinus
-Potamogeton zosteriformis
-Potamogeton perfoliatus 
-Potamogeton natans 
-Potemogeton foliosis
-Stuckenia pectinata (sago pondweed)
-Ceratophyllum demersum (hornwort)
-Chara sp.
-Callitriche heterophylla
-Callitriche verna
-Myriophyllum verticallatum
-Myriophyllum sibicurim
-Hippurus vulgaris
-Lemna trisulca, 
-Lemna minor 
-Lemna gibba
-Woffia sp. (watermeal)
-Utricularia vulgaris
-Eleocharis acicularis (dwarf hairgrass)
-Elatine triandra
-Ranunculus aquatilis
-Limosella aquatica
-Polygonium amphibium (floating leaved only)
-Fontinalis antipyretica (willow moss) and "string moss"
-Elodea canadensis
-Riccia
-Some sort of water lily
-Some kind of aquatic liverwort

Outside of town/outside Alberta, I have found:
-Elodea nuttalli
-Elodea "bifoliata"
-Potamogeton richardsonii (and others)
-Najas flexilis
-Other Chara sp.
-Myriophyllum spicatum (eurasian watermilfoil)


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

I think the plant in the first photo of post #36 might be _Gratiola viscidula_. I know where to find some semi-locally, and I'd be there now if it weren't so HOT!


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

It is definitely not _Penthorum_. I am leaning towards _Mimulus_, maybe _Mimulus ringens_.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

The plant in that pic, yes. I'm talking about another one.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

I think that the plant in the first picture of post #36 of this thread could be _Mimulus_. I have seen the purple flowered plant at the same location, but I have not seen any white flowered plants.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

It's not that. I actually grew some _M. ringens_ one time. It grew submersed, but very slowly and it wasn't all that attractive.

The dentate leaves look similar to those of _G. brevifolia_, which is a good aquarium plant. The similar _G. ramosa_, while very closely related to the former, did not perform well in submersed culture.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

I collected the _G. viscidula_. We'll see if it looks like what you found.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Cavan Allen said:


> I collected the _G. viscidula_. We'll see if it looks like what you found.


Well, it doesn't look at all like what you found when it grows submersed! Curiously, _G. vidscidula_ (

__
https://flic.kr/p/2195342477
) loses the teeth on its leaves growing submersed and ends up looking almost exactly like _G. aurea_. Only it's easier and faster growing. In strong light it gets reddish. I think it will be a very good aquarium plant. Yours may have been _G. brevifolia_.


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## birbal9090 (Mar 22, 2011)

superb!wish i could be there.


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