# Does it hurt a NPT to do more water changes?



## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

Does it hurt a NPT to do more water changes? Talking about diseases in another thread got me thinking about water changes in NPT's 

I use a continuous water change system on most of my tanks, all of which are soil substrate tanks. 4 Have Water change and pressure CO2 but not crazy levels of CO2 like High tech tanks. 

I recently set up 2 new NPT's about two weeks apart, 1 is a 29 Gallon for a pair of angels that were not playing nice in the community tank they came out of. the other is a 25 Gal. for shrimp and dwarf Rasboras.

The 29 was already drilled for an overflow drain but I didn't install it, I wanted to try the full El Natural style. Both tanks have had only green water for algae issues. the 29 gal is in my living room where I have the other tanks with the water change system, and the 25 is in my bedroom by itself. I tried some SALVINIA MINIMA to help with the GW to no avail, I started doing waterchanges when I couldn't see half way through the tank. this would get rid of the GW for a couple days then it would come back. 

I got tired of doing WC's on the tanks and hooked up the 29 to the WC system. In two weeks it is crystal clear and the SALVINIA MINIMA is looking better than it did before the continuous water flow.

The 25 is now so green I can't see very far into it, I have added water lettuce (Thanks Justin) and it is starting to spread but the tank just gets greener every day and I'm having trouble keeping myself from doing WC's

The only difference in the tanks is the 29 gets the fresh water supply, and the 25 doesn't and is planted heavier. My tap water has a small amount of Phosphates in it (.5 ppm) so the 25 gets that water where the 29 gets the system water that is ran through a household cartridge filter that I modified to take Phosgard to remove the phosphate from the supply water.

I am really thinking I may hook the 25 up to the WC system to get it cleared up. Is the Phosphate in the tap water causing the problem or making it worse?

Any ideas?

Brian


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## PPulcher (Feb 4, 2004)

It's been a while since I've read the book, but my understanding was that one wanted to keep the dissolved organic carbon in the water as a potential source of CO2 as it decays.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

Brian,

I had the same green water issue when I first setup my 20 long about 6 weeks ago. Personally, I don't quite follow the NPT method to the 'T'. I use strong lighting and pressurized CO2 such as yourself. 

I mineralize the soil before use in order to bind the NH4 and hopefully not make it available to algae. It's my belief that the green water persists until whatever residual free NH4 is left is used up. Of course, the best way for me to accomplish this was lots of large water changes.  

So, the short of it is, no, I don't see it causing any harm.


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## hooha (Apr 21, 2005)

How do you mineralize the soil beforehand?


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

hooha said:


> How do you mineralize the soil beforehand?


I started a thread dedicated to the process I use. I can't call it my process though, I borrowed it from a good friend.
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/32043-el-natural-with-a-twist-long.html


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## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

AaronT said:


> Brian,
> 
> It's my belief that the green water persists until whatever residual free NH4 is left is used up. Of course, the best way for me to accomplish this was lots of large water changes.


or a continuous one. 

I agree with you on the NH4 as the cause, I have tested for NH4 several times with no measurable amounts with the standard hobby test kits. maybe the levels are below what the kits can measure.

The reason I'm trying to go the full El Natural is my Mom wants me to set up a tank for her and a low maintenance tank would be perfect. so I guess this is practice.

I haven't decided whether to ride it out or do more WC's or maybe add CO2 only and see what that does. with the holidays approaching I may be able to ignore it for awhile longer.

[/QUOTE]So, the short of it is, no, I don't see it causing any harm.[/QUOTE]

I guess the DOC's being flushed out could starve the plants of carbon if there was no other source, that might be a detriment in the long run. I don't know if the CO2 level in the incoming water would be enough to offset the loss.

More to ponder


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## Grayum (Jun 14, 2006)

What is a continious water change system? I thought that was called a river?

You must live in an area with no drought issues, if not it sounds very wasteful.


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## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

Grayum said:


> What is a continuous water change system? I thought that was called a river?
> 
> You must live in an area with no drought issues, if not it sounds very wasteful.


I live in a conditions similar to a Rain Forrest, I have moss and ferns growing on the trees, I get 100"-120" of rain a year. we call it a drought when the puddles dry up.

The system is a low pressure low controlled flow of water into the tank with an overflow drain to maintain the water level. I can set the incoming water flow slow enough so it can't even keep up with the evaporation. so it's not huge quantities of wasted water. in the El Natural tanks I plan on having just a little more than the evaporation to keep the tank full and add a touch of new water.


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

I don't see any reason that would be a problem. I think it would be a healthy thing as long as your source water is happy. I think it would help similate a natural body of water instead of the close ecosystems we maintain.

One of the reasons I initially set up NPTs is my source water is loaded with ammonia.


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## Aquatic addict (Apr 14, 2006)

I have 2 natural setups (soil-based, no CO2, no ferts, moderate artificial lighting). One has received 50% water changes twice a month (for about 7 mos), and the other gets minimal fresh water. Plant health and growth is very similar between the two.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

bpimm said:


> Does it hurt a NPT to do more water changes?
> 
> The only difference in the tanks is the 29 gets the fresh water supply, and the 25 doesn't and is planted heavier. My tap water has a small amount of Phosphates in it (.5 ppm) so the 25 gets that water where the 29 gets the system water that is ran through a household cartridge filter that I modified to take Phosgard to remove the phosphate from the supply water.
> 
> ...


Phosphate would definitely stimulate green water algae! Algae loves water with 0.5 ppm phosphates. Once tanks get established, this level doesn't matter that much. But in your situation, it does. You have a new tank where plants are trying to get started and are not yet competitive, the soil is spewing out nutrients, etc.

I would do a massive water change using the phosphate-free water. Then see if you can't get the floating plants growing well. I hope you've got enough light, water hardness, and Ca in the water for them?

Eventually, the floating plants you added should take care of the green-water problem.... without a lot of water changes. If you're using phosphate-rich water for the water changes, water changes are probably only going to make it worse. You're just feeding the algae more phosphates.

Of course, you could just put this tank on the purified water system. Temporarily using a UV sterilizing filter is another option.

Good luck!


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