# Soil seperation



## Dale-CT (Feb 13, 2018)

Greetings all,

I'm a newbie to fish keeping and am hoping this is not an (entirely) stupid question 

I have read Dr. Walstad's book and am trying to setup a first small 2gal planted tank. Also trawled through many pages on this forum regarding soil types but have not seen this question answered.

Miracle Grow is not available here (South Africa), there are a few organic potting soil brands, so I bought a small bag of each, but they all seem to have the same problem.

After washing and stirring a few times the soil separates into what looks like compost and white beach sand. If I put it in a jar and stir it up it settles into two district layers, beach sand below and compost on top. There are always some bits floating on the surface and after 6 hours the water has not cleared at all (too much clay?).
I'm guessing that the white beach sand is pretty useless and should be discarded.
The texture of the compost does not look like pictures of what others have posted, its more like mulch and has a very light odour of the forrest after rain.

My thoughts around options are like this:

1. take out the black compost and use that under a layer of 2-3mm gravel.
2. just go to the forrest and go get some soil from there (I live near a mountain)
3. expensive (but easy) option seems to be to use Fourite or similar - but that goes against everything I read in the book and my understanding is that it is inert, so I'd need to fertilise anyway.

Any other ideas for me?


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Welcome to APC! I don't use the Walstad method, but I do use mineralized topsoil. I have had success just digging some soil from my back yard, in an area where It isn't likely that any kind of chemicals were ever dumped there. My tank is set up with this soil now. And, I have done it several times now, with soil from different places where I have lived. I consider this to be the safest way to get soil for my aquarium.


----------



## Dale-CT (Feb 13, 2018)

hoppycalif said:


> I have had success just digging some soil from my back yard ...


Thanks.
When you wash this soil, how long does to take before the water clears? i.e. for the soil to settle in the bottom of the tank and the water to clear.


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Don't wash it. Put it in a bucket, and fill the bucket with water. Slosh it around, and pick out the floating pieces. Let it set until the soil is all at the bottom. Gently pour off the water. Dump the wet soil on a tarp or equivalent, in the sunlight. Smell it and remember the smell - swampy?

When it is dry, break it up and repeat the process a couple more times. When the smell of the wet soil is no longer a swampy smell it is mineralized. Put it in the tank and spread it out as the bottom layer.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Please folks. You don't "wash" soil. When you set up your tank, you disturb the soil layer as little as possible. You lay down the damp soil in the tank, dampen it with water. Then you quickly put the plants in while the soil is damp/dry. You spoon gravel onto the soil layer so that the soil is buried and doesn't float up. Then, when you add the water to the tank, you do it GRADUALLY so that you do not disturb the soil. As the water is filling tank, you can spoon more sand or gravel around areas where the soil is popping up. When you pour the water into the tank, you block the flow of the water so that it doesn't disturb the soil layer. I use a small dish or piece of aluminum foil.

This is all in my book.

If you want to mineralize the soil beforehand, hoppycalif's and/or Michael's method seems reasonable. Key here is to be gentle with soil. Remember: those smaller particles that cloud the water are the ones that best hold nutrients for the plants. Later on, bacterial growth will bind them together so that they don't cloud water. 

My method conveniently mineralizes the soil in the tank. I change water (1-2 times per week) to remove any cloudiness and/or excess nutrients that a fresh soil releases. You can mineralize soil in a tank or a bucket. I prefer the tank.


----------



## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Thanks, Diana!

I begin to realize that some people are misinterpreting the "soak and drain" part of the mineralization process. It isn't like washing gravel, when you stir the gravel as much as possible so that all the fine particles wash away. When preparing soil, you half fill a bucket with soil, then gently fill the bucket with water. You do stir the soil a little so that floater are released. Let the filled bucket sit for 24 hours, then slowly and carefully pour off the floaters and tannin stained water. But you don't want to disturb the soil that has settled at the bottom of the bucket--you keep all of it that sinks, including fine particles.

The purpose is to remove floaters, tannins, and excess nutrients from highly organic and fertilized potting "soil" mixes commonly sold for terrestrial plants. Natural topsoil does not need nearly as much preparation, depending on its composition. And as you point out, one can do all of this in the tank if the necessary water changes are done.


----------



## Dale-CT (Feb 13, 2018)

Michael said:


> I begin to realize that some people are misinterpreting the "soak and drain" part of the mineralization process. It isn't like washing gravel.


Michael and Diana,

Thanks for the pointers. You are right, I *had* misunderstood the soaking process.
Will try again!


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I am a firm believer in following the book when trying a specific method for setting up a planted aquarium. Unless you have done enough research to understand in some detail why all of the instructions for a specific method are there, you can't pick and choose parts of those instructions and expect to get the result you want. So, if you want to follow Diana's El Natural method, you should follow it closely. If she says to wear a red glove while putting plants in the tank, wear a red glove while putting plants in the tank. For all you know that is an important step.

I read the book, and studied parts of it, but I like the way I have been setting up tanks, so I didn't switch to her method. But, if I ever do, I will follow the instructions.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Dale-CT said:


> Michael and Diana,
> 
> Thanks for the pointers. You are right, I *had* misunderstood the soaking process.
> Will try again!


Good that you posed your question. Believe me, you are not the only one who has been confused by this crucial point. Soaking and washing are two different things. Michael gave good explanation.

Hoppycalif--No need to wear a red glove when setting up a tank.


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

dwalstad said:


> Good that you posed your question. Believe me, you are not the only one who has been confused by this crucial point. Soaking and washing are two different things. Michael gave good explanation.
> 
> Hoppycalif--No need to wear a red glove when setting up a tank.


Great! I will cancel my Amazon purchase!


----------



## pjcvijay (Nov 13, 2019)

Michael said:


> Thanks, Diana!
> 
> I begin to realize that some people are misinterpreting the "soak and drain" part of the mineralization process. It isn't like washing gravel, when you stir the gravel as much as possible so that all the fine particles wash away. When preparing soil, you half fill a bucket with soil, then gently fill the bucket with water. You do stir the soil a little so that floater are released. Let the filled bucket sit for 24 hours, then slowly and carefully pour off the floaters and tannin stained water. But you don't want to disturb the soil that has settled at the bottom of the bucket--you keep all of it that sinks, including fine particles.
> 
> The purpose is to remove floaters, tannins, and excess nutrients from highly organic and fertilized potting "soil" mixes commonly sold for terrestrial plants. Natural topsoil does not need nearly as much preparation, depending on its composition. And as you point out, one can do all of this in the tank if the necessary water changes are done.


According to Diana organic contents produce CO2 which is necessary for the El Natural. As mineralization process reduces the organic content into more stable form, will that produce enough CO2 that supports good plant growth? or CO2 injection is necessary?

Sorry I still have trouble understanding the term mineralization.

Thanks!


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

pjcvijay said:


> According to Diana organic contents produce CO2 which is necessary for the El Natural. As mineralization process reduces the organic content into more stable form, will that produce enough CO2 that supports good plant growth? or CO2 injection is necessary?
> 
> Sorry I still have trouble understanding the term mineralization.
> 
> Thanks!


It wont affect the carbon component of the dirt. Bacteria eat the wood particles releasing CO2 for example.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Mineralizing, composting, eating, digesting, metabolizing and decomposing are all the same thing here. Soil bacteria first digest the soil's smaller organic particles containing the more available N-rich nutrients. The larger wood particles with their hard-to-digest cellulose may take months or years for bacteria to fully digest. 

You can put the soil in a bucket to mineralize the soil's most digestible components. Then, the soil is somewhat tamed down before you put it into the tank. Bucket-mineralized soil will release less nutrients and gas. It will consume less oxygen. 

In contrast, I don't see the need to wait and prefer to mineralize soil in the tank itself. Extent of chaos depends on water flow, soil depth, depth of gravel cap, plants, etc. I deal with the soil's temporary upheaval with water changes, poking, etc. It hasn't been a problem for me. 

Probably the safest thing for rank beginners is to follow Michael's advice and mineralize the soil before putting it in the tank. Or use garden top soil. (It has much less organic matter.)


----------



## pjcvijay (Nov 13, 2019)

dwalstad said:


> Mineralizing, composting, eating, digesting, metabolizing and decomposing are all the same thing here. Soil bacteria first digest the soil's smaller organic particles containing the more available N-rich nutrients. The larger wood particles with their hard-to-digest cellulose may take months or years for bacteria to fully digest.
> 
> You can put the soil in a bucket to mineralize the soil's most digestible components. Then, the soil is somewhat tamed down before you put it into the tank. Bucket-mineralized soil will release less nutrients and gas. It will consume less oxygen.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your explanation, Diana!


----------

