# Could extra fish food meant for plants overfeed guppies thus killing them?



## JoanToBa (Aug 23, 2018)

Hello fellow humans, begginer back again here,

I recently started reading Diana’s “ecology of the planted aquarium” and on page 183 I read that she fed her fish a bit more than what they would eat so that plants had extra nutrients. But here’s the thing, I’d like to keep guppies in the tank I’m planning (my first planted aquarium btw) and I’ve heard that guppies are capable of eating themselves to death. 

So could it be possible that they’d eat the extra food and maybe die because of it?

Also, thanks for all the support in my other posts! Great forum


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

That's an interesting question! I, too, grew up in this hobby understanding the over feeding would eventually kill the fish. I don't recall ever seeing it happen, but I also have always tried to feed just a bit less than the fish want. A few years ago I started seeing the suggestion about using excess fish food as plant food, but I ignored that advice. I first started to wonder about this when one of the experts in the hobby said he always feeds his fish very generously, causing his fish to always be very healthy.


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## JoanToBa (Aug 23, 2018)

hoppycalif said:


> That's an interesting question! I, too, grew up in this hobby understanding the over feeding would eventually kill the fish. I don't recall ever seeing it happen, but I also have always tried to feed just a bit less than the fish want. A few years ago I started seeing the suggestion about using excess fish food as plant food, but I ignored that advice. I first started to wonder about this when one of the experts in the hobby said he always feeds his fish very generously, causing his fish to always be very healthy.


I read in a past thread that what she may mean by overfeeding is that she gives fish a bit more food than necessary so that they pooped more. But yeah, it's really interesting to see so many opposed opinions, that only shows us that this hobby is still in development[smilie=b:


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## kafkabeetle (Oct 11, 2011)

I would just use common sense and not dump tons of food in all at once. I would think that's where you get into eating to death territory. Although I also wonder if that might even be a myth, where the fish were really dying from water quality issues spurred by excessive amounts of food rotting in the water (particularly in non-planted tanks).

But if you're feeding within a normal range and some makes it to the bottom that's also ok. And its fine to feed multiple times per day if you're so inclined. I will also mention that purposeful overfeeding does in my experience lead to an increase in the number of creepy crawlies like detritus worms. I don't mind them too much because they help break down the excess food into what plants can more easily use. But that may be something you're in for if you want to go that route


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Excellent question! I would use common sense.

I feed my baby guppies and young adults plenty. They are growing and can use it. Females having 60-80 babies every 3 weeks need the food. My guppies get fed 3 times a day. I want to see them grow out within 3 months and females have babies every 3-4 weeks. Attached is picture of some of my 11-week old guppies. 

The only problem I've observed is with older, adult, fancy-bred males. They get too fat and a couple have swollen up and died.

If you've just got a community tank with adult guppies, you can feed them more judiciously.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

dwalstad said:


> Excellent question! I would use common sense.
> 
> I feed my baby guppies and young adults plenty. They are growing and can use it. Females having 60-80 babies every 3 weeks need the food. My guppies get fed 3 times a day. I want to see them grow out within 3 months and females have babies every 3-4 weeks. Attached is picture of some of my 11-week old guppies.
> 
> ...


Do fish, in general, do better with two feedings a day instead of one? I know that they easily survive missing a day or two occasionally. I don't think I ever did any serious thinking or testing where feeding was the subject, probably because I was always more interested in the plants.


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## Gerald (Mar 24, 2008)

Most fish nibble all day long, so yes small frequent feedings several times per day are best (except of course for species that are specially adapted to eat large prey). Some fish like N. Amer darters and suckers have a very small stomach and just can't eat much at one time, so frequent grazing is a necessity for long-term health.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

From reading the ancient texts (William T. Innes), the traditional caution against overfeeding comes from concern about water quality (uneaten food "fouling" the water).

My understanding is there are very few types of fish that will harm themselves by eating too much. It seems to happen only in highly developed selectively bred fish that show an extreme departure from normal anatomy. This includes short-bodied goldfish, some strains of bettas, and all of the "balloon" mutants that you see in every Petcosmart.

In the words of another ancient text, "Nothing too much."


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I feed my guppies 3 times a day--breakfast, lunch and dinner.

I've had to put them--and myself--on a schedule. No one--plants or guppies--goes hungry in the Walstad household!


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

hoppycalif said:


> Do fish, in general, do better with two feedings a day instead of one? I know that they easily survive missing a day or two occasionally. I don't think I ever did any serious thinking or testing where feeding was the subject, probably because I was always more interested in the plants.


I feed my guys (which some are delicate types) once every four days. Normal amount.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I think I will change my feeding habits! Perhaps, bloodworms for lunch and flake food for dinner. (And something similar for my fish):bounce:. One thing this exchange shows is that our little pets are very adaptable.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Typical daily menu for my guppies:

Breakfast- crumbled Tetra flake food for everyone

Lunch- live baby brine shrimp for baby/juvenile guppies; guppy pellets and/or micro pellets for the adults

Dinner- crumbled hard-boiled egg yolk OR my special gelatinized fishfood**

Snacks- freeze-dried bloodworms for adults; decapsulated brine shrimp eggs for babies

**I describe preparing this tasty, pasty fishfood in my website's article on treating fish for Camallanus worms. Although the parasite infestation is over, I continue feeding this food to the guppies. They love it. With the vegetable ingredients, it's good for them. And it's easy to feed. (I keep a bag of frozen cubes in the freezer for several months.)


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

dwalstad said:


> **I describe preparing this tasty, pasty fishfood in my website's article on treating fish for Camallanus worms.




Did you use levamisol? I know the dosing in water but wonder what the dosage in food.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

No. I used another wormer (Fenbendazole) in prepared fishfood to treat my fish for Camallanus worms. (Note: *water treatment* with Levamisole also works for this.)

I did use Levamisole in the aquarium water to rid my guppies of flukes (Gyrodactylus).

Articles on the two treatments for ridding guppies of these pests are on the Aquarium Plant page of my book's website: https://dianawalstad.com/


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## Hobbylifeandpets (Mar 13, 2018)

dwalstad said:


> No. I used another wormer (Fenbendazole) in prepared fishfood to treat my fish for Camallanus worms. (Note: *water treatment* with Levamisole also works for this.)
> 
> I did use Levamisole in the aquarium water to rid my guppies of flukes (Gyrodactylus).
> 
> Articles on the two treatments for ridding guppies of these pests are on the Aquarium Plant page of my book's website: https://dianawalstad.com/


Thank you for these good articles I wish I found them 3 mouths ago, I allways thought that C. Cotti are same with Capallaria worms, I treated with Levamisole 3 times but I always felt that it's something missing, I knew the eggs survive dryness, but I didn't know it hatch in 3 months .
Does Levamisole HCL deteriorates when exposed to light (I read on internet), I do a 24h blackout when I treat in Aquarium?
The preapared food vs nematode is shrimp safe?
What happens if Capallaria eggs hatch in aquarium with no fish? I think they die but I'm not really shure.

Thank You


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Hobbylifeandpets said:


> Thank you for these good articles I wish I found them 3 mouths ago, I allways thought that C. Cotti are same with Capallaria worms, I treated with Levamisole 3 times but I always felt that it's something missing, I knew the eggs survive dryness, but I didn't know it hatch in 3 months .
> Does Levamisole HCL deteriorates when exposed to light (I read on internet), I do a 24h blackout when I treat in Aquarium?
> The preapared food vs nematode is shrimp safe?
> What happens if Capallaria eggs hatch in aquarium with no fish? I think they die but I'm not really sure.


Sorry, but I don't have any experience treating for Capillaria, just flukes and Camallanus. I would look elsewhere for more information than my articles provided.

That said, I stored my Levamisole HCl stock solution in the refrigerator-- where it would be kept cold and dark--for 6 weeks and then threw the solution out. The powder (stored dry, cold, and in darkness) will last much longer.

Many chemicals are sensitive to light. I always start treatments at night when lights are out.


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## zolteeC (Dec 26, 2017)

There is a reference NPT aquarium in the book, where the fishfood amount is calculated. This tank is 175 liters and it consumes 45g fish food per month.

What I noticed, that I feed much less than this. I have a 460 liter tank and I feed approximately half of the amount mentioned above. That is 4x difference per liter! I have quite some fish in the tank, I would say is medium stocked.

I guess as long as the soil is not depleted in nutrients, plants do very well, but in the long run it is really not that difficult to over-clean, over-filter and under-feed an NPT. Thoughts?


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