# I think my plants are stunted...



## cturner (Jan 9, 2008)

Sorry I'm quite a noob when it comes to plants. I've mostly been able to get away with just planting them and adding seachem ferts and watching them grow with little to no problems, but I want to learn more! So I'll get into the background and I know there will be more questions so I'll try and cover everything to help.

Tank has been set up for a little over 2 months. Started with established filter.
Size: 20 gallon tall
Substrate: Pool filter sand (with root tabs)
Lighting: Nova T5-1 bulb-10000K 22w & 1 bulb-6700K 22w on for 10hrs. plus 1 bulb-10000K 15w sunglow on for 6 hrs.
Temp: 78F
Weekly WC: 50%
Filtration: Rena XP3 with spray bar
CO2: DIY - with drop checker in the green
Plants: (sorry I don't know all the real names) Rotala Rotundifolia, Anubias Nana, Glosso elatinoides, micro sword, some kind of really tall crypt, baby tears and riccia.
Fish: Multiple tetras, cories, otos and a few loaches.

Problem:
I bought some rotala rotundifolia marked rotala indica from my LFS. The new growth has green leaves instead of red and the green leaves are rather small compared to the orginal stalk from the LFS. There are no holes, no yellowing, there is a slight curl to some leaves and there was a melt off when first planted. The growth since uping my lights has turned a pinkish red but now it's growing slower and starting to get roots coming from the upper part of the stems. Can anyone tell me what type of defficiancy I'm experiencing?? I'll post some pics to this thread when I go home for lunch. 

Most of my other plants look well. The crypts had a slight melt off when first planted but bounced back quickly and they are now sending up new shoots. The micro sword & baby tears have been growing slow, no real change with either of them. The anubias has had 2 new leaves since attaching it to wood. Glosso is starting to spread, although I just found an article on how to plant it correctly so I'll be doing that tonight. The riccia has grown in really well and is pearling almost every night now. 

I would appreciate any advice or opinions. Thanks so much for your help! BTW I love this forum...the wealth of information (although sometimes over my head) is excellent!

Also does anyone know how to stop getting green spot algae on the glass?? I have it all over!


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## chagovatoloco (Nov 17, 2007)

What kind of ferts are you adding?


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Not knowing your fert regime, it is possible the Rotala you purchased from the lfs had been grown emersed and is now transitioning to submerged growth. Give it a little time and see how it progresses. Typically the pink/reddish coloration of R. rotundafolia is more prevalent up nearer the lights than lower on the stems.

The roots you see coming from the stem are normal. All stem plants do this to one degree or another. They are called 'aerial roots'. 

How much phosphate are you using? Increasing phosphates, should lower your gsa.


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## cturner (Jan 9, 2008)

I use Seachem Trace, excel & iron. I can never find the Potassium even though it's listed on my LFS's website. I dose the recommended amount of each everyother day. As far as phosphates, is that a seperate product or is it mixed with one that I'm already using??

Here's some pics.....


































The 4th picture is the one I'm talking about looking stunted and sickly.

Oh and here's a quick shot of the crypt if anyone can ID it from these pics.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

You are not adding any of the macro nutrients. You need to add potassium, nitrogen (nitrates) and phosphates as well. Seachem sells each individually also, or you can dose dry which works out to be much cheaper. You do indeed have some stunting there, though I must say, most of the Rotala looks ok to me.


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## cturner (Jan 9, 2008)

Thanks Bert! When it comes to dry ferts all I ever see is P, K, N and so on I don't know which is what. Could you suggest any dry ferts that I can purchase for the type of plants I have? Would I continue to use excel if I switch to dry ferts? Do you have a website to suggest for the purchase of dry ferts?

Sorry for all the questions but I appreciate all the help!


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## surpera1 (Feb 18, 2009)

copied excellent post from john n - sticky under fertilizers - EI dosing

Overview
The Estimative Index (EI) coined by Tom Barr is a straightforward method for providing nutrients for a planted tank. The idea behind EI is simply introducing an excess amount of nutrients within an aquarium, throughout the week. This excess of nutrients floods the water column and feeds the plants. This is an estimative method; measuring specific nutrient uptake rates is not necessary and no test kits are involved. EI provides a surplus of nutrients that helps to prevents plant deficiencies, and allows plant growth to out compete algae growth.

The process of which this is done is simple. Each day fertilizers are dosed, and the nutrients are absorbed by the plants. With this method being estimative, we can dose fertilizers according to general guidelines suited for our particular setup (see below). At the end of the week, one performs a 50% water change to ‘reset’ the nutrient load in the entire system. And then the entire dosing schedule is repeated.

The primary fertilizers are the macro nutrients - Nitrogen (N), Phosphorous (P), Potassium (K), and the micro nutrients – trace elements (Plantex CSM+B, Flourish). Iron (Fe) can also be supplemented if necessary.

The Estimative Index method works best for a high light and well planted aquarium. However it is not limited to lower light setups, smaller quantities of fertilizers should be dosed in those instances.

General Dosing Guideline for High Light and Well Planted Aquariums
(wolfenxxx)

10- 20 Gallon Aquariums
+/- 1/8 tsp KN03 (N) 3x a week
+/- 1/32 tsp KH2P04 (P) 3x a week
+/- 1/32 tsp (2ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
50% weekly water change


20-40 Gallon Aquariums
+/- ¼ tsp KN03 3x a week
+/- 1/16 tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/- 1/16 tsp (5ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
50% weekly water change


40-60 Gallon Aquariums
+/- 1/2 tsp KN03 3x a week
+/- 1/8 tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/- 1/8 (10ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
50% weekly water change


60 – 80 Gallon Aquariums
+/- 3/4 tsp KN03 3x a week
+/- ¼ tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/- ¼ tsp (20ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
50% weekly water change


100 - 125 Gallon Aquarium
+/- 1 1/2 tsp KN03 3x a week
+/- ½ tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/- ½ tsp (30ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
50% weekly water change

Example Dosing Regime for 29 Gallon:


Note: K2SO4 is not required for dosing unless you need the extra Potassium (K). This K is found in KN03 and KH2P04. Dosing these two according to above will yield sufficient K levels. Therefore, one will be fine dosing only KN03 and KH2P04, and Plantex. If one needs to increase their K levels with K2S04, add the same measured amount as KH2P04. For example, if one is dosing 1/2 tsp of KH2P04, then dose 1/2 tsp of K2S04. In true regards to EI, added excess K is not detrimental in any event.


EI target ranges
CO2 range 25-30 ppm
NO3 range 5-30 ppm
K+ range 10-30 ppm
PO4 range 1.0-2.0 ppm
Fe 0.2-0.5ppm or higher
GH range 3-5 degrees ~ 50ppm or higher
KH range 3-5

See APC’s Fertilator for additional dosing guides for Fe, Ca, Mg, etc.


Where to buy fertilizers?
AquariumFertilizers.com can provide you with the necessary chemicals for dry and liquid dosing of the above. For micro - trace elements, Plantex CSM+B, Seachem Flourish, and Tropica AquaCare are equivalent to each other. Drsfostersmith and bigalsonline for the Seachem and Tropica brands.


One Pound of each of Aquarium Fertilizer/Greg Watson's Chemicals will last at least 1 year:

Plantex CSM+B

Potassium Nitrate KN03

Monopotassium Phosphate KH2P04

Potassium Sulphate K2S04 (optional)


Special Notes:


Providing optimal CO2 levels of at least 30 ppm are necessary for plants to prosper and out-compete algae. If algae issue arise, remove all visible algae and infected leaves. Recheck CO2 levels, and possibly reduce and adjust the lighting period.

Direct dry dosing into the tank is perfectly fine. Many dosing straight into the tank, or they dissolve each chemical in water before adding.

Making a Liquid Stock of Plantex CSM+B is more often mixed into a bulk liquid solution since some find it more convenient to dose their trace elements this way. The recipe for this solution is 1 tablespoon to 250ml water is equivalent to: 20 ml = 1/4 teaspoon of dry Plantex. This solution is stored in refrigerators to prevent mold from forming within the container. For making stock solutions for NPK refer here for a resourceful conversion calculator.

Small dosing teaspoons (smidgen, dash, pinch) can be found at Linen & Things, Bed Bath and Beyond, Wal-Mart, dollar stores, eBay and other online retailers. To identify the specific measurements of your smidgen, dash, pinch set, a 1/8 tsp should fill a ¼ tsp in 2 tries, 1/16 tsp in 4 tries, and a 1/32 tsp in 8 tries.


Stick to a good dosing regime and your plants will flourish!


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## cturner (Jan 9, 2008)

Thanks Surpera1 I actually just found that sticky and printed it out for reading later.


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## surpera1 (Feb 18, 2009)

it seems overwhelming - but just get the chemicals - add them as it says - and change water as it says - hang in there - you can do it


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

As to where to get them, check out Green Leaf Aquariums or Pfertz in our sponsors forums. Both sell ferts, packaged differently.



> Would I continue to use excel if I switch to dry ferts?


Excel is a source of carbon, so yes, you would still use it.


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## cturner (Jan 9, 2008)

So it's been awhile since I've updated this thread. I did some trimming tonight so I thought I would take and post some pictures. This is still a major work in progress with letting the plants fill in and shaping the plants. So far I've battled green spot algae and I have the start of hair algae which I've started working on getting rid of.

Full Tank:








Right Side:








Left Side:








Anbias Nana with some green spot algae left, getting ready to bloom:








Some Riccia:








Some random plants:


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi cturner,

Looks like those Macros are really doing the trick!


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Coming along nicely! :thumbsup:


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