# Is the bioload too much?



## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

In my 10 gallon guppy tank, I currently have five male fancy guppies, two Zebra nerites and a mess of pond snails, about four ramshorns(the ones that only get the size of a dime) and some very small snails that look a lot like MTS but then tend to stay in the soil or gravel most of the time. The ramshorns are only in there until they get large enough so my betta won't eat them.

The tank is heavily plant, or at least I consider it to be heavily planted and I have thought about adding another little guppy but I don't know if the bioload would be too much for the tank? Before, when I had first set the tank up, I use to keep six guppies in there but I also had a P. bridgesii snail in there and they produce a lot of waste. When I had the snail with the six guppies, it seem like one of them was always getting sick whether it be finrot or something else.

Now that I don't have the snail in there anymore, would it be too much to add another guppy?


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

If you are finding the NO3 tends to stay low without having to do major water changes then that is a good sign that the tank could handle a little more. Smaller tanks are not as well buffered against change, though, and somewhere you are going to cross the line from OK to Oops. 

It does not sound to me like there are a lot of animals in there, but perhaps the vague term of 'lots' of plants is misunderstood.
Are there so many plants, and are they so dense that you cannot see the back of the tank? 
Are the plants growing so well that you are pruning pretty regularly?
Is the nitrate level stable or climbing slowly? Easy to keep under 20 ppm? 
If these three questions are yes, then there is probably enough nitrogen export to support another Guppy. If not, and if you already have to stay right on top of water changes to keep the NO3 low, then I would not encourage adding more fish to this tank.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Here's a picture of my tank taken late last year.










The only difference between then and now is that the Crypts are bigger(and there's a couple more in there) and there is more Bacopa monnieri all along the back as well as throughout the tank. That is the plant that often grows the fastest and I have two new runners from my Crypts. There is more then enough room for everyone to swim around.

As for the nitrates, they tend to linger around 15-20ppm but it mainly stays around 15ppm and I have to trim plants up every two to three weeks. My Crypts have had quite a few leaves die off recently but it's been a little over a year since those plants have done anything like that so I had expected that to happen sooner or later.

EDIT: I just tested my nitrates and they are at 20ppm. I know that it's important to know what the nitrate levels are in tanks but I thought it wasn't as important if it's an El Natural set up.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Knowing what the nitrates are is important. If the nitrates are really low, then plants could probably handle the waste from more fish. 
If the nitrates are higher then the plants are not deficient in nitrogen, and adding more fish will probably lead to water changes. I try to keep the nitrates under 20 ppm in my tanks. Higher than this and the fish look unhappy. 

Slow growing plants may be because of any of several things, and may not be bad, just know that they are probably not going to handle more waste for you. 

If you want more Guppies, I would remove the large Ramshorn snails. I have no idea what the ratio is, but maybe 2-3 large Ramshorns = I male Guppy?


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## PlantNewbie (Dec 4, 2009)

Judging from the picture I'd say that the tank is moderately planted, it's not heavily planted yet.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Thanks Diana. The ramshorns are far from giants. I had taken out the largest one I have that's in my betta's tank and it's about half the size of a dime(the shell). The ones that are in the guppy tank are no where near as big as the one in my betta's tank.

PlantNewbie,

Everyone's definition of "heavily planted" is different. I've seen some tanks that many consider to be "heavily" planted yet there were next to no plants in the tank. I classify my tanks as heavily planted because if I were to add any more in there, there would be no room for the fish to move around. That and the plants at the bottom would end up not getting enough lighting so they would end up dying off on me. It's only a 10 gallon tank so I can't go overboard on the plants if I want room for the fish.


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## LVKSPlantlady (Oct 4, 2009)

Hi red rose,

In my 10 gal heavily planted tank I have about 10 huge females, 2 male, and 90+ baby guppies! Also 2 skunk loaches! The ammonia is at 0 ppm and Nitrates around 10ppm... I only do a water change once every 3 or 4 months if they are lucky! 

You can prob add a lot more guppies!


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Thanks LVKSPlantlady. 

Great looking tank! What is the name of the plants in the front that look like blades of grass?

I think the reason my nitrates are as high as they are is because there are nitrates present in our tap water. Back when I had first set up my 10 gallon betta tank, there were zero nitrates in the water but since there was construction done on our street and our water started coming from an underground well from a different part of the city, we now have nitrates.


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## LVKSPlantlady (Oct 4, 2009)

sagittaria subulata grows like a weed plant it in a pot if you don't want it all over your tank! I think it looks better potted!


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Red Rose, with nitrates coming in with the water changes you do need to handle things carefully. There are several options here:
Move closer to a high tech, or at least medium tech tank so the plants grow faster and remove the nitrogen. A little more light, add CO2, maybe other ferts so there are no deficiencies, then the plants will grow faster and remove the nitrogen from all sources (fish food and water changes). 

Pre-treat the water, for example in a plant only tank, so there is a lot less nitrogen to add to the Guppy tank. The fish food added to the Guppy tank will add enough nitrogen for the plants. 

Work with what you have, moderately planted low tech tank, and no more livestock. 

Add more plants to this tank. To me, heavily planted means so many plants you cannot see the back of the tank. This is hard in narrow tanks because this does tend to fill the middle of the tank, too, leaving less room for the fish. Surface plants might be the answer. They will grow faster because they are closer to the light and have a better supply of CO2.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Red_Rose said:


> I think the reason my nitrates are as high as they are is because there are nitrates present in our tap water.


What is the nitrate level (mg/l or ppm/l) in your tapwater?


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

dwalstad said:


> What is the nitrate level (mg/l or ppm/l) in your tapwater?


It's between 5-10ppm. From what I can remember, it's more closer to five.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Red_Rose said:


> EDIT: I just tested my nitrates and they are at 20ppm. I know that it's important to know what the nitrate levels are in tanks but I thought it wasn't as important if it's an El Natural set up.


Cute tank. You could add a plant or two-- if you wanted. But I think you can be happy with things as they are. (I like it that you've got a floating plant.)

Nitrates of 20 ppm are not that big a deal. And 5 ppm in you tapwater is fine. My 7 current tanks range at 10-20 ppm. I had one tank with 80 ppm nitrates for long periods. It had no noticeable problems. That said, I would consider changing water if nitrates get into the 25-50 ppm range.

Bacteria have a big impact on nitrate levels, probably more than plants in an NPT. Bacteria will process and remove nitrates diffusing into the substrate (see my book, pp. 63-65, for a description of denitrification and nitrate respiration). If your tank has a potting soil underlayer, nitrate removal will be faster than if you have a garden soil (dirt/mineral) underlayer. A tank with lots of aeration/nitrifying bacteria will generate more nitrates than one with less aeration and nitrifying bacteria.

But all this is academic... If your plants are growing and the fish are happy (eating well, etc), I would enjoy your little 10 gal.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

dwalstad said:


> Cute tank. You could add a plant or two-- if you wanted. But I think you can be happy with things as they are. (I like it that you've got a floating plant.)
> 
> Nitrates of 20 ppm are not that big a deal. And 5 ppm in you tapwater is fine. My 7 current tanks range at 10-20 ppm. I had one tank with 80 ppm nitrates for long periods. It had no noticeable problems. That said, I would consider changing water if nitrates get into the 25-50 ppm range.
> 
> ...


Thank you. 

I do plan on adding more plants but what I'm going to add is Duckweed. I already have a bit in there but I would like a little more. Duckweed seems to be the only floating plant that doesn't really mind if there is quite a bit of water movement in the tank. Water Lettuce, on the other hand doesn't like it much.

What you said about tanks with lots of aeration/nitrifying bacteria will generate more nitrates makes so much sense. In my betta's tank, I use a HOB for circulation and the nitrates in that tank linger around 10-15ppm but in my guppy tank, I use a sponge filter and now that I think of it, the bubbles breaking at the surface is most likely causing the tank to become more aerated which could explain why the nitrates are higher. I plan on getting a HOB for their tank soon so then I will see if the nitrates lower or not. Both tanks have just plain dirt as a soil underlayer.

Here's a picture taken yesterday. As you can see, the Water Lettuce didn't fair too well but the Duckweed remains and the Bacopa is growing very quickly. The largest Crypt had a lot of leaves die off but it was the first time in over a year that that plant has done that but it's making up for it by sending out more runners and growing new leaves. Also, I added two more guppies. It's a friend's fault that I caved in and bought them! lol


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Tank looks even better!

Based on your picture, I'd consider your bioload very light. Another Guppy or two won't hurt-- just more CO2 for plants. 

As to filters, I wouldn't count on an HOB to be better than a sponge filter. In your case, I would simply lower the bubbling rate as much as you can (I let the bubbles come one-by-one to just stir the water). 

Remember that plants can take care of the ammonia-- if you let them. I would downplay the sponge & HOB filtration as much as possible. In an NPT, biofiltration competes with plants (explanation in my book, pp 107-112) and just generates nitrates. More importantly, it encourages CO2 degassing, which limits plant growth in an NPT. 

In this situation, I would be much more concerned about CO2 degassing than I would about nitrates.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

dwalstad said:


> Tank looks even better!
> 
> Based on your picture, I'd consider your bioload very light. Another Guppy or two won't hurt-- just more CO2 for plants.
> 
> ...


Thanks again! I'm no aquascaper but everyone is happy and the ammonia and nitrites are at zero. That's the most important thing.

The guppy count is up to seven where before I made this thread, it was five. Everyone is a lot more lively now that there are more in there.

The main reason I want to use a HOB in that tank as well is because it evenly spreads the heat around in the tank. When I put my hand in any part of my betta's tank, I can feel that the temperature is the same no matter where my hand is whereas in my guppy tank, some of the areas that have a lot of plants tends to be cooler then out in the open. The second reason is what you said at the end of your post and that's CO2 degassing. It would just be interesting to see if there is any affect on the nitrates when I get the filter but I don't think there will be.

I do use sponge in my HOB filter but it's really only to collect bits of debris floating about. I know I can easily take out the sponge inside the filter but the one that I would leave on is the one I have at the end of the intake tube. Call me overly cautious but I like to put a piece of sponge there for fish that may not be able to handle very strong currents like Bettas or small fish. That way, if they got close to the intake and the suction from it was a little strong, they wouldn't hurt themselves(like shredding their fins, etc.) on the tube. When I get a HOB for my guppy tank, I plan on doing the same thing for them, just in case.


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