# Do I need different substrate?



## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

I have regular gravel and a bag of eco complete mixed into the gravel. Is this sufficient to support my plants?


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## GeraldStringham (May 16, 2013)

Inert gravel would support plants with proper water based fertilization so truthfully any substrate would work. However it really depends on what you would like to accomplish with your plants. As far as your substrate now goes I would say you would need some sort of root tabs or water based fertilizer for good plant growth. Eco Complete lacks some key plant nutrients. Oscomote+ root tabs are a great cheap alternative to the other root tabs on the market. You can purchase gel caps on ebay for cheap and typically find oscomote at any of the big box hardware stores.


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

Well I was looking at taking the gravel out and replacing it with Aqua soil but havnt decided if I should do it yet since my tank is established.


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## GeraldStringham (May 16, 2013)

Why not just use dry ferts? They are cheap and easy.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

GeraldStringham said:


> Why not just use dry ferts? They are cheap and easy.


Because his tank will force him to maintain it without and will be at a constant risk of an algae explosion. It is cheap and as everything cheap it comes with a hidden cost - constant need to keep things right. That's where things become not so easy. There is always something going out of whack sooner or later. If it was easy both planted tank forums would not have a huge and active "Algae" sections. Posts about defficiencies would not be common.

The real problem is that most people on the US forums talk about dumping fertilizers in the tanks, having as much CO2 as you can, and as much light as you can. That's all a newbie sees. The mainstream is to have little understanding how things work.

You don't need to change the substrate. Make sure your biofiltration is good, the water flow pattern is good, and use plants that can feed from root tabs. Or you are stuck having to maintain everything going yourself AND always running high risk of problems.


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## GeraldStringham (May 16, 2013)

You do have to find a balance based on your plant load, tank size, lighting, and if you are running co2 or not. Once you figure out a good balance for your tank you aren't constantly running a high risk of problems. 

Without having an idea what plants he/she is intending on keeping suggesting root tabs might not be the ticket in their situation. For instance a tank full of water column feeding plants such as ferns/mosses/anubias are going to like water column dosed ferts. A tank that is primarily crypts and swords is going to like root tabs. A tank filled with various species and types of plants including stems will actually benefit from a combination of both. 

I don't know of any one in the US forums who suggests using as much light, co2, and ferts as you can. No one is advocating dumping unknown amounts of ferts into a tank either. It is all about finding that balance the same goes for planted tanks around the world. I have seen extremely beautiful tanks on both ends of the spectrum extremely high tech and low tech dirt tanks.

As far as Aquasoil goes I wasn't going to throw my opinion out but since that is the route we seem to be going. I hate the stuff I ripped it out of several of my tanks because as someone who often rescapes and moves things around the stuff is a complete nightmare. I had great growth but I also have great growth with inert pool filter sand with oscomote+ root tabs and minimal water column dosing. Some people love it though.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Sure, you can stick a stem plant in inert substrate and your only option is to start dumping ferts in the water. A great idea indeed. Start with an impossible situation and force it to work. There are many examples in other areas of life for that ridiculous situation. You could start the tank with inert substrate, wait a few months till the substrate matures and then plant the stem plants. They will grow without any additional fertilizers. But that is "old school" and who wants that?

Yes, in the US the mainstreal planted tank enthusiasts believes that more is better. If you think 30 ppm CO2 is indeed needed you are mistaken. If you think that 1 ppm N and 0.5 ppm P is not excessive you are mistaken. But you do need these excessive values if you are forcing things to work. This is simple: If you don't setup the tank right - you have to force it to run. Many people can show pictures of beautiful forced tanks that cannot last more than a week or two without fertilizers and water changes. To most people that is how it works and we can argue endlessly about it.

AquaSoil has been designed as part of a complete system. There is no easily accessible information on how this system works. And most people do not even think there is another way other than dumping fertilizers in your water and maintaining excess of everything. Take a part from a Ferrari and build a car around it. It will not run like a Ferrari. You will hate the part and the car around it will not be too great either.


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

Well guys Im taking away from this that my eco complete and inert gravel in my cycled tank should be sufficient?


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## UltraBlue (Mar 8, 2011)

It is not sufficient as there are not many nutrients in either, some of those that are listed in eco complete are not bio available. I suggest using dry ferts dosed to the water column.


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## GeraldStringham (May 16, 2013)

It really depends on several factors. How long has this tank been running? What kind of stocking do you have? What plants will you be using? How much lighting do you have? Will you be using co2? If I knew all of those things I can tell you exactly what I would do.


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

Well its been established for a few years now, Im currently running CO2, I have smaller fish like tetras and some white skirts. I run about 3.3 watts per gallon on my 29gal tank with 2 roseatte lights and 2 6700K 24 W T5 HO lights


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

Also currently have rotala species whats left of my dieing cabomba and some HC and glosso in the foreground


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Well, here is the bottom line on substrates:

CEC or not? 

Fine materials like clay based products (Turface, Safe-T-Sorb, Soil Master Select, Oil-Dri and similar) and high humus materials (peat moss, mulm, other organic materials) and the ADA product line are all high CEC. 

Sand, gravel and most substrates that look like sand and gravel are low or no CEC. 

CEC is cationic exchange capacity. This means the substrate can attract and hold fertilizer in a way that the plants can take it. This acts like a reserve, evening out a possibly uneven supply. You can water column dose, then the fertilizer gets attracted to the substrate, then acts like a slow release material. 

In a tank with no CEC (or very little) you need to stay right on top of the fertilizer needs of the plants. One way to help is to use slow release tablets deep under the substrate. Then water column dose. Do not do deep vacuuming. Allow the mulm to build up. Eventually this organic matter will decompose fine enough to have some CEC. 

Either way, the plants will grow. 

Other considerations:

Do you like the looks of it? Color, texture, does it hold slopes? 
Is it fine enough to grow the little ground cover plants you like?
Do you have fish that stay on the bottom and need a softer substrate? (Many Cats and Loaches, a few others). Which substrate is best for them?


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## fraviz (Oct 24, 2012)

GeraldStringham said:


> It really depends on several factors. How long has this tank been running? What kind of stocking do you have? What plants will you be using? How much lighting do you have? Will you be using co2? If I knew all of those things I can tell you exactly what I would do.


There is no thumb rule... depends of your situation....
I have a 20 gallons (with Eco) that run for a year .. really nice forest of plants only diy co2... but now .. all are dying.... I guess it is time to fertilize....


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

Thanks for the replies I was going to replace my substrate I think however my PH with Co2 is around 6.6 so if i replaced with aquasoil would this make the PH even lower to dangerous levels for my fish. Also the reason I havnt replaced it yet is deciding what to do with the fish until I can get it replaced and also wont it have to go through another cycle period?


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## Yo-han (Oct 15, 2010)

Depends on the species livebearers prefere a higher pH. Most fish come from low pH, down to pH=3-4 but CO2 creates an artificial pH which fish don't care about In fact, the only critters you need to worry about (99% of the cases) with low pH are your filter bacteria.


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