# Experiences with discus?



## bq5186 (Mar 14, 2006)

I have a well-established, heavily planted 55 gal containing a kleiner bar sword, an amazon sword, lots of anubias nana, a carpet of HC, dwarf sags, and a variety of other sags and crypts (i don't know the names of all of these). 

The tank currently holds 15 harlequins. pH is 6.9, nitrates, ammonia and nitrites constantly at 0. 60% weekly water changes. 

I'm looking into adding a school of five 3" discus. I've done a fair bit of research on simplydiscus.com. The information I retrieved from that website seems to indicate that unless I step up dramatically my water changes and use a bare-bottom tank, my discus will run into trouble. In the alternative, it is recommended that I buy adult discus, which are prohibitively expensive (and slightly less fun). 

So - the conclusion from simplydiscus is that my plan won't work. I would, hoewever, like to know whether any of you planted tanks fans out there have had any experience with bringing up juvenile or sub-adult discus in a planted tank. 

Thanks!


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## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

I have a 75 gallon fully planted its been set up for a while yadda yadda yadda.....

I have just 2 discus in there one around 3 inches or so... the other about 4 inches.... they are doing just fine, I do one water change a week..... sometimes not even 50% more like 30 or so..... they have been healthy and doing fine....

I do keep the temp up around 82 which from what I understand is vital in keeping them healthy in the long run..... I also feed small amounts several times a day, and one thing to note is that while it is possible to keep the healthy in this sort of set up..... there is just no way they are going to grow as quick or as large as they would if kept in a bare bottom, where they can be heavily fed with large daily water changes..... I have seen monster 8" discus that were well taken care of in that manner and its a sight to be seen..... they are stunning, However I think fish that large would also look a bit odd in a smaller tank....

if Possible i would recomend keeping them in your QT tank to start to grow them out.... they will grow much faster just because you can feed more.... change more water more often etc....


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## Marilyn1998 (Sep 13, 2006)

I would grow them out in a tank without plants until they are about 4"-4.5", then put them in planted. YOu can also use driftwood with anubias or ferns attached keeping hte bottom bare for easier cleaning. Or, keep your plants in pots so they can be removed as needed.Two reasons for this... you need to feed 4-5 times a day when they are 3" for them to grow well. The planted tank is too hard to keep clean and keep the plants healthy with the water changes that this feeding regime requires. 

The other reason, is 3" discus are more likely to get stressed and succumb to different disease or problems which require meds or salts that will harm your plants.
To grow them to the 4" or better will only take about 6 weeks or so if fed well and lotsa of good clean water is available.

MrSanders,
I would raise the temp to 84-85 on your discus for sub-adults and adults. They do much better at that temp. Also, they do better with a group of 5-6. They arent as likely to pcik on each other. The agression and pecking order has a larger place to play out.



Good luck to you both!


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

Hi all,

Dependng on the plants, at 84-85F[~29+C] IME most plants would look a little dull or may not survive at all in the hands of an inexperienced planter.

So far it my 9 juvenile discus [2-3 inch] are pretty happy and active in a 118G [5x2x2ft] planted tank at has a range of 26-27.5C[78.8-81.5F]
They are eating a blend of chicken breast + pork heart, garlic, pro grow, spirulina and loving it! i feed them twice a day and 50% WC weekly.
The fish were added in 3 months after the tank was setup.
It's companions are 1 garra flavatra, 10 yamato, 8 otos and 1 SAE.

Plants are mainly ferns and mosses.
Fertilization- Brighty K, ECA, GBSS, Green Bacter. HTH.


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## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

> MrSanders,
> I would raise the temp to 84-85 on your discus for sub-adults and adults. They do much better at that temp. Also, they do better with a group of 5-6. They arent as likely to pcik on each other. The agression and pecking order has a larger place to play out.


thanks for trying to help but they are doing great, they dont fight or pick on each other at all the actually swim around like the are paired always togeather..... also I have noticed no difference in health going from 84+ down to 82..... thanks anyway though, I am already quite aqare of what is needed if problems do arise....


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## Marilyn1998 (Sep 13, 2006)

MRSanders,

I am glad to hear they are doing so good!!! When I had my first discus in the early 90's, I knew very little about them. I kept 2 Blue Turks together in a 40 gallon high with pebble size rocks and an undergravel filter. I grew them up with not one disease from about 2.5" to over 9" when they died because a heater blew out while I was on vacation and they fried. I kept the temps at 82 and fed them frozen blood worms and standard flake. THey never fought once. I did a 25% WC every 10 days or so.

I think I had two males because they never layed eggs. They were gorgeous.

It can be done, but the keeper needs to know what to look for and how to handle problems. Most discus keepers dont bother to find out what that is.

You are a rare one. Hope those two breed for you!! IT is a sight to see.


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## diablocanine (Jul 25, 2004)

IME, raising sub adults in a planted tank is difficult but doable. Step up the water changes no matter what type of setting you use, turn the tank over at least once per week, preferably twice. Temps need to be at 85F, 90F for first two weeks in a new tank. This will raise the Discus' metabolism ensuring they will be eaters and not hiders. Additionally, 90F will kill any nasties the Discus brought to the tank or the nasties already in the tank. If you put 5 Discus in there, consider 15-20 bottom feeders, to clean up uneaten food. Sterbai cories and most plecos from the warm parts of the Amazon can handle the heat and do an excellent job cleaning up the uneaten food. Without bottom feeders, your Discus will eventuually get a hold of some rotten food which will make them very sick. Monitor TDS, high TDS and temps below 85F are the biggest stressers to Discus, they will not be happy, just surviving not thriving. I use 100% RO and keep TDS below 250; I also dose salt in all my tanks........DC


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## Shaggathai (Apr 18, 2006)

I'm raising a group of 7 discus (2-3") in a planted tank right now. This is my second time doing it this way, the other time was 10+ years ago in a few tanks, and I've yet to run into any real problems. Bare bottomed tanks are the best way to grow discus as big as possible and as fast as possible, as you can feed very heavily foods such as beefheart, but I don't find it nearly as enjoyable as watching discus grow in a planted tank. 

I have an area at the middle front of the tank that I don't plant for a feeding area. Most of the food sinks there, so I don't have to worry about food rotting among the heavily planted spots. I feed NLS grow pellets 4-5 times a day, and once a day or every other day or whenever I think of it, frozen bloodworms or brine shrimp, very occasionally frozen beefheart (it'll foul up a planted tank easily so be careful if you feed that). I have 6 sterbai cories, and 10+ or so little fancy plecos (L260, L204, L136b, L200, L134, L264, bn's, etc.) to clean up leftover food. I more than doubled my plecos after getting the discus, and will probably add a few more, you really can't have too much cleanup crew in a planted discus tank. A couple of times a week I drop in some algae wafers or pleco power pellets at lights out to supplement what the bottomfeeders find from leftovers during the day. 

I keep my temp at 84, the discus do great at that temp and most plants can handle it too. 50% water changes weekly, and small ones during the week when I vacuum the feeding area or need to pull some water to mess with the plants. QT the discus when you get them in a seperate tank with the temp higher like diablocanine said, get them eating well and make sure they are clean, and be religious about qt for any fish you add later. I keep seperate equiment like nets, siphon etc for my discus tank when I get new fish in one of my other tanks, after they've been here a month or so I get lazy about that tho. 

Raising discus in a well established planted tank is quite do-able in my opinion. Discus aren't as fragile as they are made out to be, they're cichlids after all. Once they reach 2-2.5"+, they are pretty durable fish (with the exception of some "newer" strains that mostly come from Asia) as long as you meet their requirements. Keep the water clean (the plants help with that) and on the soft side, the temp up, good food, qt new fish etc, and you'll have beautiful healthy discus to enjoy in a showy tank.


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## lildark185 (Jul 7, 2006)

I have a concern regarding the issue of having discus grow separately and being overfeed to make them grow bigger in a faster manner. If discus are fed 4-5 times a day, of course they will become bigger faster, but wouldn't this also cause stress and might lead to a premature death? The human population has been afflicted by obesity problems the last several years because of over eating and eating whatever is fast and readily availabe. This has caused the serious weight problems as well as health issues such as heart disease and diabetes. If discus are fed 4-5 times a day and aren't allowed to swim in hundreds of gallons of water as they do in the wild to exercise, wouldn't this lead to the same problems that we are facing today? This is just a concern of mine, in no way is this meant as an attack on any individual.


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## Shaggathai (Apr 18, 2006)

Interesting viewpoint, and in some ways I agree with it and understand it. Fish fry, just like our own offspring, require a high intake of calories/nutrition for growth. Fry/juvi fish don't seem to have obesity problems with heavy feeding, it all goes to growth. I breed horses and dogs, and you'd be amazed what a 2 year old colt can put away in groceries compared to an adult horse, and not get fat.

Discus more than most other fish seem to be prone to being stunted in growth and development if they aren't very well fed while growing (shows up as really big eyes, even bigger than wild discus, football shape, way too small, etc). In the wild, while they have obviously much more swimming room, they also have food available basically all the time in the form of smaller fish fry like cardinals, neons, and other fish that they live with, plus bugs and critters of the like. Fish fry of all kinds are best fed as many times a day as possible, they burn the food off fast and you don't want them having to utilize their body's resources during the early growth stages (for discus that's a good 5+ inches size). Discus are more sensitive to water quality than most other fish, which is why the ones being raised for maximum growth are kept in a bare tank, for ease of cleaning and the daily water changes needed when being fed as much as they can eat. One of the reasons I feed 4-5 times per day (actually more than that, I throw a pinch of pellets in every time I walk by the tank some days lol) is because in my planted tank I can't stuff them, nor do I want to. I'm not looking to raise dinner plate sized discus, I just want them nice shaped and healthy looking. They need to be very well fed to get them that way. 

An example of another fish that really needs heavy feedings when growing is the blue gularis killie. I think they may even eat more than discus! 

Both fish, just like other species, when adult or near, should have more "normal" feed amounts. A tiny bit frequently, or a bigger feeding once or twice a day. 

Hope this helps you understand.


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## star rider (Feb 27, 2006)

I believe that discus raised in a planted tank are more likely to be 'normal' discus. I do feed mine small meals 2-3 X day.

read as smaller..

I think there may be some confusion about discus. many folks raise discus to attain these 'show' sizes..and colors..these folks also are bvery concerned about imputities in the lines..to the oint where there is discussion about broekn bars, number of bars etc.but they also feed beefheart etc..not natural food for the most part(I'm not saying it's bad)

I do believe that the general concensus is to keep young discus in warmer water..86-90 and as suggested raise these in a bare bottom grow out tank. not a bad idesa..this will quarantine the discus and you can treat them for parasites etc.(warm temp of 90 tends to take care of this) also add airation as warm water tends to hold less dissolved O2 and since it's a BB tank feed them well so they grow healthy.

after a few months(usually not a bad idea for quarantine) you can move them after slowly acclimating the discus to cooler 82-84 degree water.

I have raised discus and am stull currently raising discus..they are one of my favorite fish.

I have 4 I raised from 2" that are now 4-5" one brute is surpassing 5"..

I also have 3 more I am raising (growing out) in a seperate tank that I will be moving to my larger discus tank.

my fish won't hit the 11" mark..but then I really don't want them to..they are healthy..and that's whats important..and they like the plants and structure..I do change the water a minumum of 2X week and I do roughly 30-40% per change.


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## melonman (Oct 27, 2006)

Hi guys...this is my first post on this forum!!! I currently have 7 discus in my 90 gal planted tank ranging from 3-4 inches. I've only had them for a month but all of them are doing great. They are inquisitive, colorful, and very active. I feed a combination of nls discus pellets, live daphnia, frozen hakari blood worms, and tubifex worms 4 times a day with garlic guard twice a day. I do 3 10% wc with r/o a week. I also use a current 25 watt uv sterilzer ( a left over from my sw days) to keep the water as clean as possible between wc's. Anyway, my suggestion would be getting a blood worm basket so your fish can eat are their leasure without haveing to worry about to much food falling to the bottom. I hand feed my fish tubifex 2 times a day, this way I get to make sure they all eat as much as they want without worrying about excess food. I also believe hand feeding helps to make the fish a little less shy, although they constantly nip me when i prune back my plants . I keep the temp at 82 at night and let it rise to 84 during the day with no adverse effects to my other fish or plants which include potamogeton, aponogeton, swords, anubias, ludwigia, telanthera, baby tears, quils, java fern, and java moss. I know my discus will never be monsters but they are gorgeous fish that seem to be doing fine growing up in a planted tank.


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## trilinearmipmap (Mar 8, 2005)

I think the statements about not being able to raise discus in a planted tank (repeated often on SimplyDiscus) are crap.

I have seven 2.5" to 3.5" discus in my 75 gallon plant tank, I have had them for a month.

All of the plants are doing fine at 85 degrees.

The discus are doing fine too.

One tip is to feed using a cone-type worm feeder. I feed mostly bloodworms using the worm feeder, this way the food gets eaten instead of polluting the tank at the bottom.

I still have to supplement nitrate, to me this indicates that the plants are using up all the waste products from the fish and then some.

IMO if discus people try a planted discus tank, they are likely to fail. If plant people try a planted discus tank, they are likely to succeed. The reason is plants require much more skill intellect and knowledge than discus do.

Oh and by the way I do a 50% water change with tap water once a week, the same as before I got my discus.


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## Hawaiian (Aug 17, 2005)

Boy did someone spoil your appetite at Simply or you just having a bad day? 

The reason most suggest to raise them first in a barebottom tank is for cleanliness. Then for maximum growth because of all the water changes which will almost always guarantee their health. 

Alot of members on that forum including myself also have planted discus tanks.I guess its a good thing that you can state your own opinion of others.:biggrin: 

Hawaiian


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## trilinearmipmap (Mar 8, 2005)

Hawaiian said:


> Boy did someone spoil your appetite at Simply or you just having a bad day?
> 
> The reason most suggest to raise them first in a barebottom tank is for cleanliness. Then for maximum growth because of all the water changes which will almost always guarantee their health.
> 
> ...


Hang loose Hawaaiian. No one spoiled my appetite at SimplyDiscus, I have gotten a lot of great information from there.

Most people on Simply advised strongly against raising discus in a plant tank. I am allowed to disagree with them.

I was just pointing out that the reason for this difference of opinion about discus and plants is that plants are difficult. A discus person can't just expect to set up a plant tank and have it run perfectly from day one. I have done plant tanks for years and I have found it challenging. That is why I like the hobby.


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

Ooo, sounds rough Tri but I can see your POV,

Most of the nice folks at Simply can be forgiven since they're more into the fish than plants!  They also like to breed their fish and it's almost impossible to do well in planted tanks.

I agree that by understanding planted tanks first, fish with tricky requirements like discus[higher temp, heavy feeding] becomes easier to keep.

IMHO, most Discus people have less patience to wait till the ecosystem is up before putting in their discus.
It also a point to note that although there is an unwritten rule somewhere out there about 10g per discus that many fail to adhere.
Lastly, Discus people tend to have minimal biological filtration and rely heavily on daily large water changes [like rain in Amazon] to reset the tank. It would be a learning curve for most of them since a planted tank is pretty much an ecosystem that relies on the micro-organisms, plants to work together to neutralize fish waste.

My two cent!


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## Marilyn1998 (Sep 13, 2006)

There are alot of folks that have adult discus planted tanks. It is the ones that have fry, and discus less than 6 months old that tend to keep the bare bottom tanks.
The water changes are much more for cleanliness due to multiple small daily feedings to keep the protein needs of the fish up to a point where they can develop better. Meaning no stunting of growth, football shapes etc. ALso, the smaller discus are much more susceptible to disease than older ones.
You will find that MANY discus keepers use TOO much filtration in their tanks.
Many use 2-3 HOBs, 2 canisters and multiple sponge filters just to help keep the filtration as good as possible.
And patience is something that is constantly required of any fishkeeper, discus included. 
The "10 gallon rule" is a guideline. If you have 1"-2" fish in a bare bottom tank you can put more in it. You will find that alot of discus folks use the "20 gallon" rule for larger fish. In a planted tank, I keep only 6 adult discus and a handful of smaller dither fish.

I DO agree that the planted tank is a large learning curve. I learned discus first, then planted. I feel planted is MUCH harder to learn than fish only. Discus isnt any harder to learn, jut requires more work, understanding and patience than other types of fish because they are less forgiving in mistakes.


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

Well said! 
I'd correct myself by saying that discus keepers in Malaysia rely heavily on water changes rather than filtration. 
Simple reason that soft water is abundant and cheap here!
Opposite for most of you guys out there who get liquid rock from the taps. :hihi:


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