# more researching on el natural



## philoserenus (Feb 12, 2007)

hey guys... sighs... seems like i'm still going back and forth between doing el natural or fluorite, grrr. but now i'm leaning on el natural a little more.

so a few more questions for the members =) For a 10 Gallon, two 15W cf bulbs.

(1) when using stem plants in an el natural tank, does it use any nutrients from the soils at all or only from the water column?

(2) wat are some other possible stem plants for low light, non-co2 tank? other than H. polysperma, R. rotundifolia, and L. repens.

(3) could kuhli loaches be a good addition to this kind of tank or a nono b/c they are gonna mess up the gravel/soil substrate?

thanks


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

I'm just a beginner with the el natural tank...
You wouldn't want too much wattage with this tank.. maybe just 2wpg at most.

And from what i've read, after a while stem plants won't do that great.. Rooted plants will have a better time.

And I wouldn't put a kuhli in there.. They'll dig up the soil. It wouldn't just be messy but excess nutrients might wind up in the water column and you might get algae.


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## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

The stem plants use nutrients from the soil and the water column.

I would try several different stems and see what works.

No Kuhli loach, could get messy. and your lighting should be fine.


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## philoserenus (Feb 12, 2007)

thank you guys =) i've already planned to have heavy root feeders like crypts and echinodorus or aponogetons in there, so i was just wondering with the stems. i'm not worried about the light b/c itz those sleek metallic clip-ons from home depot over the tank


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## t2000kw (Jul 29, 2006)

You might consider Amazon swords and valisneria for bottom plants. Ours do well with low light (80 W in 55 gallons). We joined an aquatic plant club to keep costs down for the plants. Also went to a swap meet in Cincinnati and got some really big swords for about 20% of what they would sell for even online. And a club member gave us a bunch of smaller swords and a couple medium ones. Just a thought.


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## philoserenus (Feb 12, 2007)

thanks t2000kw for the advice. amazon swords are in the genus of enchinodorus if i didn't remember wrong =) and valls... hmm maybe, i'll hafta think about that b/c they dun really seem to poke at my interest


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## TeutonJon78 (Nov 10, 2004)

Stem plants should do fine as the will grow roots. I think the key to el-Natural/NPT is to have a variety of plants. You don't want just root feeders or just water column feeders. The fish will be producing waste and such that will be in the water column, so you don't want to neglect that. That is a big reason to include the floating plants which really on the water column nutrients but also can not be limited by CO2 due to air exposure.

Roots ARE very important to work their way through the substrate and reduce anaerobic pockets, so you would want at least some strong root feeders (ie, swords, crypts, vals, etc). So, I think you're covered on that front.


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## philoserenus (Feb 12, 2007)

Teuton, thatz some great info. but if i have floating plants like frogbit (its the only kind i could get my hands on; gave up on duckweed... it was so messy) arent they gonna block out the light needed by my stems and root feeders?


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

philoserenus said:


> Teuton, thatz some great info. but if i have floating plants like frogbit (its the only kind i could get my hands on; gave up on duckweed... it was so messy) arent they gonna block out the light needed by my stems and root feeders?


I tried to clear one end of the tank for my vals.
Does java fern count as a water column feeder?
The Anacharis seems like the most versatile.

I actually saw bubbles come from an "arial root".


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## philoserenus (Feb 12, 2007)

i believe java ferns are mostly water column feeders since their so-called roots are for anchoring. ancharis would be good too, but that depends on the type of fish u keep (to some, its a great snack) and the temp it is at (ancharis are not really fond of warm temps).


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

My Anacharis is at 80F in the daytime and growing like a weed 

But I have duckweed (which we called ditchweed when we were kids), and Java Fern and Java Moss

I originally meant to say Java Moss in my last post


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## philoserenus (Feb 12, 2007)

anacharis at 80*F all the time eh ^^

duckweed, i used to have that in my 2.5G but man... they were soo annoying b/c they stick to everything when i try to clean... it took me so long to clear out every little one i had... i would consider them a menace even though they would look nice for a npt of which very little maintenance is required (i'm still not going back! haha)

as for the moss, they have to be a column feeder b/c they have no other means to get nutrients if they dun =)

PS: i've followed ur tank since the very beginning and it looks really nice, but i didn't notice it was u until i checked out the link on ur signature, haha =)


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

Thanks for following.
I'll be doing a picture and a week 3 update.
I think I'm getting the hang of the style.
One side (left) is the moss and anacharis and the right side is clear for the Val. Sp.
Still gives the real jungle look.
I swear the betta is sleeping on the java moss at night since it is a little below the water line from the anachris branches on it.
Will be doing pruning  before the big picture.


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## TeutonJon78 (Nov 10, 2004)

floating plants would block some of the light going to the tank. But that is why you harvest them from time to time. It permanently removes some of the nitrates and frees up surface area. And eventually, you may get to the point where no floating plants will grow. I believe Diana has some tanks like that.


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