# Salt in a Planted Aquarium?



## roblimpt (Apr 20, 2013)

I have been having difficulty, in keeping Mollies, my setup is 29-gallon, with Aqua-clear-30-and a Fluval Internal -U2 filtration system. TEMP IS AT 79degrees.

I started our with 6-Sailfin Mollies, and over the last 6-month they have been dropping one by one. I'm down to the last member of my Mollie family, and 3-yo-yo loaches. (the loaches have been doing fine).
I have assorted Amazon plants, and some Crypts. My PH is 7.0, ammonia is 0, as well as nitrate/nitrite.
should I be using "Salt" for my Mollies? There is a wide difference of opinion, I'm just talking about a small amount will this possible help keep my mollies alive?
Will the salt hunt my live plants?
Your feedback is very much appreciated, and welcome.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Salt is generally not a good idea to add to planted tanks. Salt is not a necessary nutrient and can cause issues with the uptake of other nutrients.

I do not think salt is the reason your fish are dying. 

We need more info to help you figure out why they are dying.


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## Yo-han (Oct 15, 2010)

I don't think that would be the key factor as well. Most of your plants will do less well. Second loaches are scaleless fish and really don't do well in 'salt' water. There are many things in the aquarium that could have killed your mollies but the absence of salt is not likely to be one. You can start lowering the temperature a little, mollies do prefer a little cooler water. The warmer it is, the faster their life goes. Second, you mention a pH of 7. Is this with CO2? Or regular water. Because it is quite low for mollies. Check your KH (which buffers the pH), if this is low, this is more likely to have killed them. How often and how much water do you change? Do you use waterconditioner, things like that are all more likely to contribute than the absence of salt.


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## roblimpt (Apr 20, 2013)

I'm not using CO2 in my 29 gallon. I do add Flourish Excel, 2x weekly. The water coming from my tap is hard, and Alkaline. This is the main reason I went with Mollies. As far as the temperature goes should I lower it to 75 degrees?


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## roblimpt (Apr 20, 2013)

I do water changes every other week, removing 7 gallons of water, & replacing it with water that I keep in a 30 gallon plastic can. I use "Prime" & add about half a cap-full directly to the plastic can.


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## Yo-han (Oct 15, 2010)

If your water is hard and alkaline and you're not using CO2, something is seriously wrong with a pH of 7.0... 

There is another acid present in your tank. Whether it is overstocked/overfed (faeces and urine are acidic), a buck load of wood (which lower KH and pH) or someone dropped vinegar in your tank, it is normal to have a pH that low with hard water.


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## roblimpt (Apr 20, 2013)

Well what is the ideal PH for Mollies? Should it be higher? The tap water here in Florida is very poor.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

I don't think pH is a super critical factor in keeping fish especially mollies.

I think that they are growing old and dying of natural causes. You did say they died over a series of months. Usually there is something wrong only if they die quickly or show signs of disease then something is wrong but if it is months...?

They don't live very long only about a year or two depending on the temperature and their gender. Males live for a shorter amount of time and high temperatures will speed up their life.

Unless you bred them in your tank and you know exactly how old they are I don't think there is a problem.



wikipedia said:


> The natural lifespan of sailfin mollies is short, particularly in the case of the males, which may live *less than a year* after achieving sexual maturity. Depending upon environmental conditions, sailfin mollies may become reproductive in less than a year. Sailfin mollies are small fish. At one year of age, males typically range in size from 0.5-3 inch SL, while mature females are likely to be 0.5 - 2.5 inch SL. The size of adult males is directly correlated with population density. The greater the population, the smaller the average size of males. The maximum recorded size for this species is 150 mm TL.[4]


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## roblimpt (Apr 20, 2013)

Well when I purchased them I was told that they were all ready for breeding, the males were about 3" long.
However, one last thing I might add is before dying (hours before) they would swim as if they were losing balance, and had no control over it. Drunk if would be a better way of putting it.
What should I lower my temperature to?

Thanks for all of the feedback.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

I think 73-78 is a good range for these fish. It sounds like they died of old age. Did they breed for you at least?


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## roblimpt (Apr 20, 2013)

No, they never did breed. I thought the average life spn of the Molly was 3-years?


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## Yo-han (Oct 15, 2010)

roblimpt said:


> No, they never did breed. I thought the average life spn of the Molly was 3-years?


Depending on the temperature. The higher the temp, the faster their life goes and the younger they die.

I don't the pH is critical for those fish neither, but these numbers don't match so perhaps something else is in the water that is contributing to their death.


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## asukawashere (Mar 11, 2009)

Actually, mollies are fairly pH-sensitive—unless you've got a wild population specifically taken from an inland pond, they're generally a coastal fish used to hard and somewhat salty water—and almost all commercial molly breeders use a fair amount of salt in their water. Wild mollies can be found in freshwater, saltwater, and anything in between.

The real issue with mollies, though, is that they are known for being incredibly sensitive to nitrite (the midway stage in the ammonia cycle where ammonium/-ia eventually becomes nitrate). The addition of sodium to the water drastically reduces the toxicity of nitrite, which is why, even though mollies are capable of living in freshwater, adding salt is for the best in the aquarium—ponds and creeks in the wild have much better stability in terms of nitrogen cycling than an aquarium does.

I will agree with the others in that salt and yo-yo loaches are a bad mix. Loaches are, as a rule, soft-water fish, and don't respond well to extra salt. They also tend to be nippy enough that, even if they don't bother the mollies now, they will when they grow bigger. Overall, not a combination of fish I would recommend at all.

That said, it is entirely possible to have a planted tank with salt. Plenty of plants are native to brackish water in the wild, and others can be adapted to it. Often, these are the same species that thrive in hard water. Plants like hornwort, vals, sag, some crypts, mosses, etc. are all well-suited to plant a molly tank.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Per Baensch, volume 1, page 604:
Sailfin Mollies, Poecilia velifera

optimum temperature 75-82*F 
optimum pH 7.5 to 8.5
optimum GH 25-35 degrees. 
Add salt (sodium chloride) @ 2-3 grams per 1-2 liters of water. 
Minimum tank size: 1 meter long. (39")

Other comments in Baensch:
The full sail of the male's dorsal fin often does not develop in an aquarium unless there is adequate room for swimming.
Diet high in algae. Lettuce, spinach, insects, brine shrimp are all good. High quality flake food that is high in algae. 
Ultimately may be combined with certain marine fish. 
The 'sailfin mollies' sold in the trade are often hybrids, usually P. velifra x P. latipinna
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These fish are not compatible with Yoyo Loaches.
The Loaches are soft water, no salt fish. They get way too big for a 29 gallon. I would move the Loaches to a tank at least 4' long, and keep them with fish they cannot fit in their mouths. At least 3" long, that thrive in warm, soft, neutral to acidic water. 

A similar sized tank for Sailfin Mollies would be good. Basically you are setting up a brackish to marine tank. Not a lot of plants will thrive in that much salt. The less salt you use the more plants you could choose from, but be really sure the water is very hard.


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