# Name that plant!



## Tex Gal

I've got a few plants that I'm unsure of. I think I got some of them for Skewlboy, but not sure. Skewlboy, if you're out there chime in! I'll put my guess at the top. Please let me know what you think it is. Substrate is Amazonia so that you can get an idea of size of those planted at bottom.

1. Rotala indica bonsai









2. Hygrophilia sp. bold









3. Lindernia anagallis









4. Ludwigia inclinata var werticillata "cuba"









5. Hygrophilia sp. "Rio Araguaia"









6. No idea


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## oregon aqua

i think the second one looks more like HYGROPHILA SP. 'TIGER'.
3rd one i think is LYSIMACHIA NUMMULARIA 'AUREA'


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## NoSvOrAx

I'm pretty sure 1 is bacopa monneri and 3 is the big baby tears (Hemianthus micranthemoides). Just my 2 cents..


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## Cavan Allen

#1 is correct, assuming what we think is _Rotala indica_ really is that. AKA _Ammania_ 'Bonsai'.

#2 is indeed _Hygrophila sp_. 'bold'. The look of that one can be quite variable depending on conditions, but that's it.

#3 could be the _Lindernia_. Closeup? A dead giveaway for Lindernias is the three whitish veins at the base of the leaf. Look at the _Lindernia_ entries in the Plant Finder. They are different species of course, but you should still be able to see what I mean.

#4 correct - _Ludwigia inclinata_ var _verticillata_ 'Cuba'.

#5 I'm not personally familiar with that one. It does look like a _Hygrophila_ though.

#6 another pic perhaps?


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## skewlboy

You got most right Except:

2 is the bold/tiger dilemma (disputed - looks like bold in my tank but tiger in others) 
3 is micranthemum umbrosum
5 is an augustifolia (willow leaf)
6 is not from me


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## skewlboy

If you give the bonsai stronger light and more iron you will get the yellow back (you are running low iron according to the bonsai and the cuba - higher light and iron will get red tips on both).


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## Cavan Allen

The tips of 'tiger' leaves are always rounder than in that photo. That's the easiest way to tell them apart.


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## Tex Gal

Thanks so much for all your help. I think, after looking at the pxs. and all my purchase sheets, I think that Cavan is right. Also I was right about #5, found the purchase sheet! 

The only one I'm a little confused on is #3. It definately has the white lines Cavan spoke of, but also looks like the plant Skewlboy mentioned - micranthemum umbrosum. How can I tell which of these it actually is? It's a very delicate little plant, perfect for a nano.

The last px I got from an LFS. It stays small and multiplies by runners, perfect for a foreground Do hygros do that? Cavan when you said another px. how would you like it to be different? Do you want a size reference, more light... what?

Skewlboy, I have been skimping on the iron lately. I will up my dosage.



Cavan Allen said:


> #1 is correct, assuming what we think is _Rotala indica_ really is that. AKA _Ammania_ 'Bonsai'.
> 
> #2 is indeed _Hygrophila sp_. 'bold'. The look of that one can be quite variable depending on conditions, but that's it.
> 
> #3 could be the _Lindernia_. Closeup? A dead giveaway for Lindernias is the three whitish veins at the base of the leaf. Look at the _Lindernia_ entries in the Plant Finder. They are different species of course, but you should still be able to see what I mean.
> 
> #4 correct - _Ludwigia inclinata_ var _verticillata_ 'Cuba'.
> 
> #5 I'm not personally familiar with that one. It does look like a _Hygrophila_ though.
> 
> #6 another pic perhaps?


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## JDowns

Cavan Allen said:


> #2 is indeed _Hygrophila sp_. 'bold'. The look of that one can be quite variable depending on conditions, but that's it.


It is not Hygro 'Bold'. I had from the same mother plants. That is exactly how it looks under lower lighting or not enough micros. It is Hygro 'Tiger'. Once it gets to a level where lighting is intense with enough micro's the green vein down the center will turn yellow and then red, then the leaf will start to take on a bronzish or purple hue. Then the characteristic Tiger marks will appear.

Lower in the tank and not yet enough intensity of lighting. You can see the lower leaves have yet to take on the Tiger marks.










Closer to the waters surface.


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## Cavan Allen

Go look at the photos in the Plant Finder. The 'Tiger' in there was grown under high light and micros. It still has the rounded leaf tips. Both can have similar markings but the leaf shape doesn't change.

Also, 'Bold' has what look almost like teeth on the edges of the leaves. That too is a constant.

TexGal, It _probably_ is _M. umbrosum_. The way the leaf curls under makes it look that way. I haven't kept that _Lindernia_ and haven't seen any really good photos. A good closeup would settle that one.


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## AaronT

I agree with Cavan that the Hygrophila in picture #2 is more likely sp. 'Bold'. I've kept both the 'Tiger' and 'Bold' at the same time in the same tank. A friend was nice enough to share them with me and I introduced both of the species to APC a little over a year ago.

Hygrophila sp. 'Tiger' - note the rounded leaf tip and overall shape









Hygrophila sp. 'Bold' - note the pointed leaf tip and overall shpae









#6 might be Hygrophila sp. 'Porto Vehlo'.


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## JDowns

Cavan Allen said:


> Go look at the photos in the Plant Finder. The 'Tiger' in there was grown under high light and micros. It still has the rounded leaf tips. Both can have similar markings but the leaf shape doesn't change.


Why would I have to look at the Plant Finder?

As I already stated. I had the same plant from the same person from the same aquarium. Tex's photo is exactly how it looked when I trimmed it out of the Skewboy's tank myself. The photo's I posted is what it transforms to under different conditions.

The question posed by the OP was an identification of the plant posted. So debating from the Plant Finder is useless, unless the plant has the uncany ability to morph species under different environmental conditions.

I can take photo's from an LFS where I trade the plant to and it quickly reverts back to the original photo. Where they run leaner nutrients, lower CO2, and lower lighting.


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## AaronT

The Plant Finder has some of the clearest pictures of the details of each species' leaf shape and details. I think Cavan merely was trying to use it as a tool to demonstrate the pointed the rounded leaf shapes. I posted some pictures of the two different species as they were in my tank.


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## Cavan Allen

Allow me to interpolate your response with my own material...



JDowns said:


> Why would I have to look at the Plant Finder? *Because if you did, you might see what I'm trying to show you. *
> 
> As I already stated. I had the same plant from the same person from the same aquarium. Tex's photo is exactly how it looked when I trimmed it out of the Skewboy's tank myself. The photo's I posted is what it transforms to under different conditions. *OK, but both your photo and hers are the same plant. Do I need to say again what I think it is? *
> 
> The question posed by the OP was an identification of the plant posted. So debating from the Plant Finder is useless, unless the plant has the uncany ability to morph species under different environmental conditions. *See above*.


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## Tex Gal

Gentlemen, here are a few more pxs, hopefully more clear, of the 3 plants in question. They went through a tank disaster a week or so back, so they are not fully recovered, but you can see more detail of some healthy leaves.

JDowns and Skewlboy, I know I got some of these from Skewlboy, but I also have gotten plants from others. The strange thing is that when I get the plants I make a sheet of the plant names and get pxs from the net of those plants. I have this one recorded as Hygro bold and have no tiger. Where did I get the name from? I don't know, so that is why I turned to the experts.


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## JDowns

Tex Gal said:


> Gentlemen here are a few more pxs, hopefully more clear of the 3 plants in question. They went through a tank disaster a week or so back so they are not fully recovered, but you can see more detail of some healthy leaves.
> 
> JDowns and Skewlboy, I know I got some of these from Skewlboy, but I also have gotten plants from others. The strange thing is that when I get the plants I make a sheet of the plant names and get pxs from the net of those plants. I have this one recorded as Hygro bold and have no tiger. Where did I get the name from? I don't know, so that is why I turned to the experts.


That is how that plant transforms after sitting at a local LFS from the plant I pictured. It eventually ends up with a oval shape with pointed tips. It loses all veining and the top leaves turn a pinkish/peach while the bottom leaves go brown. The edges of the leaves will go smooth loosing the serrated appearance.

My point is in different conditions the plant takes on a completely different leaf structure.

I have to respectfully question the identification since I cannot find any nursery such as Tropica or any other source that has identified that species with those given names. Who named and identified these species? Another reason I also ask is how long has Hygrophila sp. 'Porto Velho' been used erroniously when it is actually a Staurogyne species, recently and properly identified by Tropica.

Cavan Allen: I mean no disrespect but for now I'll have to refer to this plant as Hygrophila sp. Since I cannot find any other source outside of a hobbyist based site that has identified and named this plant. If a source can be provided or when it is provided, then we can go from there.


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## Cavan Allen

JDowns said:


> Another reason I also ask is how long has Hygrophila sp. 'Porto Velho' been used erroniously when it is actually a Staurogyne species, recently and properly identified by Tropica.
> 
> Cavan Allen: I mean no disrespect but for now I'll have to refer to this plant as Hygrophila sp. Since I cannot find any other source outside of a hobbyist based site that has identified and named this plant. If a source can be provided or when it is provided, then we can go from there.


The 'porto velho' is a very different plant from the _Staurogyne_, which up until now has been called 'low grow Hygro'. The latter is more upright, has leaves that are pretty much rounded and not bullate, and is pure green. It is used as more of a mid-ground plant.

With the new photo, I am even more convinced that the _Hygrophila_ is question is 'bold'. I'm trying to determine the species name, if in fact it has been described, but that is proving to be especially difficult, especially because its place of origin in clouded in mystery. Who named it 'bold'? Who knows. Maybe we can dispense with the silly trade names entirely when the species name is finally discovered. I've flowered it and am looking for an expert on _Acanthaceae_ to help me out.


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## Cavan Allen

Tex Gal,

It looks like the mystery plant is a chain _Echinodorus_, or, if you accept the recent taxonomic revisions to _Alismataceae_, _Helianthium sp_. The species? I'm not sure, but we might be able to tell in a while.

I believe the other is _Micranthemum umbrosum_.


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## Tex Gal

Everyone, thank you for your help! I am always amazed at the wealth of knowledge that you all have!  

I'm very excited about plant #6. It's different from the low grow Hygro. I have some of that. I've not seen this small plant before. Perhaps when it begins to get it's roots I'll be able to share it with you experts and get a complete ID. It's a great little foreground plant.


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## AaronT

Thanks for the new pics Tex Gal. I agree with Cavan that the last picture from your original post is probably a chain sword of some type. The latest picture you posted of the Hygrophila species definitely without a doubt affirms that it is Hygrophila sp. 'Bold'.

The Hygrophila sp. 'Bold' and Hygrophila sp. 'Tiger' names come from Japan. I originally obtained them from a friend in Hawaii who regularly travels to Japan and brings back plants. I introduced them to the members at APC and TPT a little over a year ago. I'm quite certain as to the identification of Tex Gal's plant based on those names that were passed on to me. Granted, they both have real species names that have yet to be determined.

Now to address the whole dwarf Hygrophila dilemma. There are currently 3 species of Hygrophila that are being sold and traded as Hygrophila sp. 'Dwarf'. This has no doubt been the source of much confusion.

1) Hygrophila sp. 'Low Grow' (aka Hygrophila sp. 'Dwarf') or at least that's the name we've given it in my local club. It grows more recumbent to the ground than vertical and slowly forms a nice bush. Leaves are slightly bullate and about 3-4" in length. This species was brought back by Mike and Jeff Senske from Japan a couple of years ago and has been making it's way around thanks to their generosity to the Houston club. Here's a picture of it in one of Mike Senske's aquascapes or here in an aquascape by Ghazanfar Ghori (the person in my club that I got it from). Keep in mind that Ghazanfar's tank is a 215 gallon tank.

There are some, including myself, who now believe this to be the plant sold by Tropica as Staurogyne sp. which is a very close relative of Hygrophila species. You can read more about it on Tropica's website here.

2) is Hygrophila sp. 'Porto Velho' (aka Hygrophila sp. 'Dwarf'). 'Low Grow' and 'Porto Velho' are distiguinshable by size and leaf texture. The 'Low Grow' has a considerably larger leaf that is slightly bullate. Like 'Low Grow', 'Porto Velho' will also grow in a recumbent fashion along the substrate to form a nice foreground or midground bush if given enough light. The leaves of Hygrophila sp. 'Porto Vehlo' are about 2" in length and are not bullate at all.

3) is Hygrophila sp. 'Dwarf'. This was first distributed by Robert at Aqua Botanic a little while ago. This species has long slender leaves that are quite wavy. Here you can read more about it.

I am currently keeping all 3 of the species of "dwarf" Hygrophila and can say without a doubt that all are easily distinguishable from each other. Again, I believe the confusion can stop is we stop calling all 3 of them Hygrophila sp. 'Dwarf'.

It's also an excellent idea to keep a journal of the species you've collected as Tex Gal has done. It's very easy to start confusing similar species as your collection gets larger and larger.


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## jmontee

Tex,

I agree with micranthemum. Here is are pics of my lindernia:



















I think this has more of an upright growth than the plant you posted. Also the leaves seem to be more arrowhead shaped and with the slight "denticulation." I don't know what you call it, I am still trying to learn as much as I can about plants but you see the small rounded protrusions along the leah edge.


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## Cavan Allen

Thanks for the pics. It definitely helps clear that one up.


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## Tex Gal

Do you think #6 could be Echinodorus magdalenensis? I was on a site that had a px. Couldn't tell what height measurements it stated as it was in dutch (I think).


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## jmontee

It looks like it. Do a google image search and you will find a bunch of pics on there.


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## Cavan Allen

Tex Gal said:


> Do you think #6 could be Echinodorus magdalenensis? I was on a site that had a px. Couldn't tell what height measurements it stated as it was in dutch (I think).


_E. magdalensis_ is a synonym of _E. quadricostatus_, which would be a very good guess.


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## skewlboy

LOL, such a discussion. If it helps, the plant in question I got from AaronT about 1 yr ago. When I crank up the ferts it has the jagged edges at the tips. I would love to get some actual tiger if Aaron still has both in his tank 

I can send you some lindernia anagalis if you wish - easiest way to tell what the plant is would be to smell it  Lindernia anagalis has a very surprising minty smell out of water - very striking.


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## Tex Gal

skewlboy said:


> LOL, such a discussion. If it helps, the plant in question I got from AaronT about 1 yr ago. When I crank up the ferts it has the jagged edges at the tips. I would love to get some actual tiger if Aaron still has both in his tank
> 
> I can send you some lindernia anagalis if you wish - easiest way to tell what the plant is would be to smell it  Lindernia anagalis has a very surprising minty smell out of water - very striking.


Great! When I took a sprig out of the water and smushed a leaf it was VERY minty. So now the question is does micranthemum umbrosum smell like mint? I'm pretty sure I got this plant from you Skewlboy. Do you have both or just the lindernia anagalis?


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## AaronT

I didn't keep the 'Tiger' long I'm afraid. I grew incredibly fast so I got rid of it. If you got it from me the chances are good that it was the Hygro 'Bold'.


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## Cavan Allen

I still have some in one of my emersed setups. It's not in the best of shape, but you don't need much...


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## skewlboy

LOL, well then it might be lindernia after all - I do have both, my umbrosum grows crazy fast and is very delicate on the stems. My lindernia is very stiff stemmed and leaf patterns don't grow close to the stem as much as the umbrosum. Both have same color in my tank but smells are very different.


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## skewlboy

OK, just saw aarons pic of tiger - i thought that was ceylon - looks like i have tiger and bold in the same tank as well. Unless someone has ceylon they wanna send me I have both and they are different in the same tank


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## Tex Gal

Cavan Allen said:


> I still have some in one of my emersed setups. It's not in the best of shape, but you don't need much...


What do you have some of? Lindernia, if so I'd love some.


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## Cavan Allen

'Tiger'. Sorry.


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## skewlboy

I can send some lindernia.


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## Tex Gal

Thanks Cavin - Skewlboy is gonna send me some when he sends the lindernia. We're gonna do a little fancy tradin! 

Can't tell you guys how much I appreciate your help and knowledge base. :hug: I think I'm actually getting the hang of this plant naming thing. I learned what _bullate_ means! [smilie=u:


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