# My Walstad II (and III), a harder road?



## Alexander (Sep 4, 2013)

So last fall, I set up my first "El Natural" tank. See eg. http://tinyurl.com/l7gax8u

The plants grew well, the water was nice, the fish pleased with life. The old 30G in Toronto:



Then life dictated that I move across the country to Vancouver. So the fish were re-homed, the plants re-homed, and away we went.

Now settled on the west coast, I acquired a larger 72G tank, eager to put my new-found experience to better use. The past 5 weeks in pictures:

Week 0:



Week 1:




(Note: I knew that without CO2, those lovely reds would become greens. I'm ok with that. Hoping to dive into CO2 world in a few months.)

Week 4:






So now for my concern - my tap water has a pH of 7.0. That tank's water:
Week 1: 7.4
Week 2: 7.8
Week 3/4: multiple readings in the 8.0 to 8.2 range.

(Disclaimer: I didn't get the "High pH" test kit until the past 10 days, so the prior 7.4/7.8 readings could well have been in the 8.0-8.2 range. I didn't baseline the tap water until the past few days.)

Once I noticed the high pH, I purchased some almond leaves, and while they definitely contributed tannins to the water I saw no pH decline.

Other random forensics:
-KH around 8-9
-Ammonia 0 to 0.6
~3/4" of soil, partially mineralized (one and a half wet-dry cycles after several wet-wet rinsings)
~3/4 inch of gravel cap
-The two ceramic towers weren't there until yesterday, so it's exceedingly improbable that they were part of the water problem.
- I set up my 30G tank in my office, intending to cycle it then turn it into a shrimp tank after it enjoyed a month or two of being a plant + ninja snail tank (the latter being the generic snails that infiltrate my tanks regardless of my preventative techniques). I put the water into it (from the tap + water conditioner for chlorine) yesterday. The pH today is 7.8. The water left over in the bucket that I used to fill it, again yesterday, is 7.0. It's got ~3/4" of the same soil, and a cap of 70% sand (new) and 30% the gravel that is in the other tank. My hypothesis is that the alkaline quality is coming from either the soil or the gravel. The two tanks have the same tap water, dissimilar plants, dissimilar filters.

I've avoided chemical dosing (apart from the water conditioner) as I'd like to obtain a more natural equilibrium...I'd just prefer that natural equilibrium not be a pH of 8.2, for my plants and fish's sake.

Oh - and there is a thin yellow film on top of the water in the 72G tank. I don't recall this occurring in my prior effort.

Thoughts? Questions? Advice? Thanks in advance...

Alex


----------



## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Put a handful of the suspect gravel in a cup or two of water. If the gravel is doing this that small amount of water ought to change pH really fast. 

Is the GH and KH the same in tanks and tap? 
Often gravel that raises the pH also adds minerals like Ca, Mg and carbonates to the water.


----------



## Alexander (Sep 4, 2013)

Thanks for the suggestions - I will re-test pH and hardness of 72g tank, tap water w/ gravel (I've still got plenty unused) and straight tap water.

I did a 25% water change for the 72g a couple of days ago, and the pH as of yesterday was 8.0. Also did a full water change on the 29G tank, though haven't checked pH (only things in tank are plants and snails). Will update numbers later today.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Alexander said:


> I did a 25% water change for the 72g a couple of days ago, and the pH as of yesterday was 8.0. Also did a full water change on the 29G tank, though haven't checked pH (only things in tank are plants and snails).


If the plants are growing, I wouldn't worry about the pH.

One thing that will bring the pH down are fish. The nitrification of their ammonia will acidify the water. See my book, page 4. If you don't want to add more fish, add more fishfood.


----------



## Alexander (Sep 4, 2013)

dwalstad said:


> If the plants are growing, I wouldn't worry about the pH.
> 
> One thing that will bring the pH down are fish. The nitrification of their ammonia will acidify the water. See my book, page 4. If you don't want to add more fish, add more fishfood.


Wow, honored. Thank you for the reply.

Yes, the plants - at least some of them - are growing rather robustly considering I set the tank up about a month ago.

Every time I've agonized over the state of the water chemistry, my wife has pointed out that the fish are happy, the plants are growing, I should trust that it'll work out. Sounds like I should do so...

Of course, I'd still like to have a better understanding of the 'why'. Per Diana K's reply:
Thing / pH / KH
72g tank / 8.0 / 7
29g tank / 7.8 / 3 (pics below)
5g bucket, 1/4 full gravel, 1/2 full water, sat 24 hours / 7.2 / 1
5g bucket, 1/2 full water, sat 24 hours / 7.0 / 1

Notes:
- I "stirred" the buckets both last night and this AM. I'm not entirely sure why. Seemed like a reasonable thing to do?
- The different pH levels in the two buckets may be illusory. Both could have been 7.0 or 7.2.
- Regarding the higher KH...I actually did use Seachem Equilibrium when I set up the 72g tank. (I live near Vancouver, where the tap water is neutral-to-high pH, and very soft. See eg. http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/freshwater-chat-9/vancouver-water-32759/#post262803)

Pics of 29g soon-to-be-shrimp tank:





(Gravel cap on left-most portion of tank is same gravel as that in 72g tank, and in 5g bucket. Sand is play sand, washed, only in that tank. Tank currently contains ~40 MTS. One day, when I have faith they might live, I'll get some RCS and expand my aquarium skillset.)


----------



## planted-tnk-guy (Jan 28, 2014)

Keep us updated to what you find out.


----------



## Alexander (Sep 4, 2013)

A month in, and the shrimp tank is doing well...except for one thing, more on that later...

The tank today:



One of the seemingly happy occupants:



My concern relates to the uninvited occupants. At present, the shrimp tank contains about 40 Cherry Reds and 15 just-introduced Amano, plus about 40 Malaysian Trumpet Snails.

About two weeks ago I noticed some very thin, white worms in the tank - there's pretty good water movement, and I'd see them coming "down" at the front of the tank (the two spray bars are pointed toward the surface for agitation, such that the flow is basically a big circle along the surface, down the front, and then back to the intakes in each back corner). I was concerned at first, but as they were very thin white worms who swim in sine wave fashion, I concluded that they were merely detritus worms and not anything to be concerned with. (The solution online appeared to be feeding less, which is a non-issue as the only feeding I've done is blanched spinach, which the MTS devour in very short order. Regardless, they appeared to be decreasing in number and I attributed this to the RCS growing larger and eating more, along with the still-expanding snail population doing the same.)

This AM, the Amanos were introduced - and they're giants compared to the RCS. (They're bigger in general, but the RCS were babies when I purchased them a couple of weeks ago...the biggest RCS is in the pic above, the smallest Amano is probably 4x his size.) The Amanos are really actuve, and much more interested in poking around the bottom of the tank, going through the sand, prodding around the gravel, etc.

At any rate, I'm now seeing much larger worms. This shows one, along with an irritated Amano to the left:



That worm swam in sine wave fashion, hit the ground, then dug himself in while the Amano was digging around nearby. Shortly thereafter, Is aw another one...it swam up to the back of the tank, then stuck itself on the glass with one end, extended out lengthwise, then stuck the other end to travel lengthwise. It did that a few times before swimming down to the ground and digging in as the other did. (Pics of the stick and stretch maneuver here:
Stretch: http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac243/ensrucker/IMG_20140426_144442_zpse9ab6e8c.jpg
Stick: http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac243/ensrucker/IMG_20140426_144440_zpse158d089.jpg

This is my first experience with a Walstad shrimp tank, and my first experience with worms. (I suppose it's possible they were in one of my two prior natural tanks, but my fish ensured that they did not disturb me.)

The worms didn't appear to have the pointy-head associated with planaria, but they were much larger and pinker than the shorter, thinner white ones of the past couple of weeks. Are they just big detritus worms? Should I be concerned? I've grown very paternal with the baby RCS and quickly entertained by the Amanos...I'm trying to take the hands-off, let-it-sort-itself out approach in general, but also don't want to stand idly by whilst something unpleasant happens to the little ones.


----------



## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

They are most likely leeches. But don't freak out! There are many species of leeches that do not parasitize other animals, but live on dead animal matter much as planaria do. I had these in a shrimp tank at one time. Assassin snails and cories took care of them.


----------



## Wy Renegade (Apr 16, 2014)

I agree with Michael, based on your description of movement, they are most likely leeches. Do they appear to be segmented?


----------

