# Planned tank evaluation please



## Grizzle Fish (May 29, 2014)

Hello folks,
I'm working on a 55 gallon El Natural tank that's in the planning stages. I would appreciate any suggestions you might care to offer.

*Tank mates planned: *
2-3 mated pairs of German Blue Rams
1 Otocinclus (Oto)
3 Corydoras catfish (sterbai)
10-15 Cardinal Tetras
Perhaps a few Cherry Shrimp --(in consideration only at this point).

My primary concern is the wellbeing of the German Blue Rams.
They don't do well if tormented and they need warm water. That said, I don't know what the temperament is of otos, so that is a worry, that the oto(s) will be aggressive towards the rams. If the otos are not aggressive then how many of them should I get?

I am also concerned about the wellbeing of the oto itself as the temperature of my aquarium will be 82 degrees, a bit high for an oto I believe. I was really hoping to have an algae eater amongst the crew, so any alternate recommendations are welcome if the oto turns out to not be a viable option in your opinion.

Cherry shrimp, or no cherry shrimp? What do you think?

I would also welcome opinions on the total fish bio load I am planing, i.e., do you feel that my fish selection and quantity would be too much of a load for that size tank if heavily planted?

I am planning on using the dry-start-method so as to have the tank well cycled and plants well rooted and established prior to filling, testing, and adding the fish. That said, I would appreciate an opinion on the best method for adding the fish, such as all at once, or a group at a time over a time period. (a debatable subject I believe).

*About the tank:*


```
55 gallon glass:  48"L - 12"W - 13"D 

Planned water params/filtration/plants
pH 7.0
GH 100 ppm
KH  50 ppm
Temperature 82 degrees f
Rena Filstar X3 canister filter - filled with bio material- pre-filter sponge on inlet. (Thanks Michael for that idea).
Inline Heater
Low par fluorescent light - plant grow spectrum

Plants planned:
Anubias nana var. 'Petite'
Java Fern
Java Moss (only if shrimp are added)
Sagittaria
Vallisneria
```
Thanks for any and all advice, it would be very helpful to hear some opinions from ya all.

~Grizz


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## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

You are listing some very tough plants which will grow in practically any tapwater, but some rather delicate fish which might not do the same. How much experience do you have with aquaria? I would not select rams as a first species because they can be delicate (but they do look great).

_Otocynclus_ are great, but practically always wild caught and sometimes do not survive adjustment to aquarium conditions, once they are through the first weeks they usually do just fine. Is this a consideration? They will not be agressive to the rams.

Cardinal tetras are also usually wild caught (in huge numbers), which has pros and cons ...

Why not try some barbs and danio's with these plants? Have you ever seen (male) odessa barbs in a planted aquarium in the morning hours? If not, you wouldn't believe the colours - but true, they are not blue at all. Black ruby barbs can give a similar spectacle, perhaps in slightly softer water. Kribs are just fine as a "starters cichlid", behaviourally as interesting as any and much less delicate than rams (but getting rid of offspring and territoriality/agression are considerations).


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## Tugg (Jul 28, 2013)

Grizzle Fish said:


> That said, I don't know what the temperament is of otos, so that is a worry, that the oto(s) will be aggressive towards the rams.












I'm not trying to poke fun, but that's the funniest thing I've read all day. Thats like saying, "will this shrimp hurt my oscar." As for temp, Otos are pretty tough after the first few weeks. I had several in the garage this summer in 10g tanks that reached 85 for days on end. I'd get everything except the rams after it cycles. Allow the shrimp to breed a bit first since the rams may want to pick on them a bit.


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## Grizzle Fish (May 29, 2014)

Hello illustrator,
I have many years of experience. I have had running aquariums ever since I was ten years old, which was decades ago. Fresh water, salt water, now going for planted. I'm familiar with water chemistry maintenance, buffering, and re-mineralizing RO water to achieve the stable water parameters I need.

I have done a lot of research on my fish selection so they will do well in the environment provided for them, and be compatible with each other as well. Just the Oto I didn't know much about other than it's water parameter requirements.

I have read about how Otos are caught in the wild and can be pretty hurting by the time they get to the end user's aquarium, so I understand that aspect and realize that they will need food available immediately, but even so they can die within the first week. I learned what to look for when choosing them if I can find them at the LFS. I just couldn't find anything about their temperament other than they have been seen to attach themselves to discus fish. So, never having one I was not sure of their temperament towards docile fish such as German Blue Rams.

As far as barbs go, it's been my experience with them that they are nippers and wouldn't do well with the rams.

My experience: I'm nicely set up with some great testing equipment and support chemicals, as well as having experience in their usage to achieve desirable and stable water parameters. I just got tired of being at the mercy of what comes out of my tap at home, and what fish it restricted me to. I wish to provide a hospitable environment for my chosen inhabitants and not be restricted to hard water fish. 

There is a GBR breeder an hour or so away from me that I can purchase mated GBR pairs from locally. No shipping required. So that's a big plus in having success, in that they will not be subjected to shipping and adverse time factor.

Hi Tugg,
After reading your post over and over again I kind of have the feeling that you are insinuating that oto's are mellow fish? ;-)

Ok, they are mellow fish. I just had a hard time trying to google out that fact, but I'm happy to hear that and accept the ridicule, lol.

Speaking of shrimp, I have been reading about Amano shrimp. They sound appealing to me as they are unlikely to successfully breed in captivity. So contrary to Cherry shrimp, with perhaps three Amano shrimp there would not be a continuing increase in the tank's bio load. Although I understand they do poop a lo! Would you have an opinion on that? I mean, would Amanos would be a better choice for me than Cherry shrimp? They do look pretty cool.

Thanks again to both of you for getting back to me.

Peace,
~Grizz




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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

The fact that you can get locally produced rams from a individual breeder is a huge advantage! Just check that your water chemistry is similar to the breeder's.


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## Grizzle Fish (May 29, 2014)

Michael said:


> The fact that you can get locally produced rams from a individual breeder is a huge advantage! Just check that your water chemistry is similar to the breeder's.


Hello Michael, hope you are doing well indeed,
I have in fact already done what you suggested. The breeder's water is at 7.6-7.8 and probably hard as well, I will have to test it to be certain. They raise their rams in a higher pH water than what those fish are accustomed to in the wild. All of those Amazon fish naturally live in very low pH and very soft water as I'm sure you know.

My plan is to match the breeder's water params, and then once the fish acclimate to their new surroundings I'll slowly bring down the pH and the hardness. The pH I'll lower to around 7.0 and the calcium hardness to about 50ppm. I feel that that will leave the all of my chosen fish in a more suitable environment. Again, I will make the change gradual.

I read something that stuck with me, it was said: "Even though fish raised in captivity can exist in higher pH than in the wild, normal evolutionary change takes hundreds or even thousands of years". With that said, I feel that they will do better with a little lower pH than above 7.x.

Once the fish are in the aquarium and it's stable, I will keep the mineral cations refreshed for their osmotic health and keep a close eye on the nitrates, doing water changes as needed depending on how well the plants are doing their job. As you may remember this is my first attempt at a planted aquarium so I'm going to stay really on top of it by testing the water very frequently and reacting as needed, but not bouncing it.

As you may recall I am using the mineralized MGOC soil method. Can you tell me if that end-product soil tends to acidify the water? I assume that it does as I believe it contains peat. If it indeed does, is that something that lessons over time, like a few weeks? It would be nice to know what to expect in that regard. Perhaps that becomes offset once the bio filter becomes mature?

Anyway, thank you for checking in on me. I know this is taking me forever to do but I have been taking it slow, reevaluating things, changing some plans, and continually researching so I can hopefully be prepared for a smooth outcome.

Thanks again my friend,

~Grizz


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

How much the soil affects pH can vary greatly depending on the composition of the soil. But if it has peat in it, it will probably lower pH, and that change should last months if not longer.


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## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

OK, I misunderstood your experience level from your question on oto's and your selection of plant species. Excuses for that :???:

I would not suggest barbs with rams (perhaps titeya), but I do like to ad that only very few species are really nippers. Most are too energetic to go well with rams though.

You did probably find this page long ago then:

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/otocinclus-macrospilus/


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## gog (Oct 12, 2014)

Otos do better in groups. You would do well to end up with 10 or so. So start with maybe 15-20. Once you get through the initial die off they're easy and most definitely not aggressive.


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