# cramped tips on stem plants



## alex_80 (Apr 17, 2006)

Hi,

I have a problem with some stem plants:
Bacopa australis
Lysimachia nummularia 'Aurea'
Rotala macrandra
Rotala macrandra 'Narrow Leaf'
Rotala rotundifolia
Hemianthus micranthemoides

The tips are periodically getting weak and cramped, new leaves are small and ugly. Then new shoots appear and they develop very good with big leaves. And then they get cramped again.
I will try to take some pictures.

Here is my tanks/fertilization description:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...nd-greets/15930-hello-members.html#post109517


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## alex_80 (Apr 17, 2006)

here are the pictures


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## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

some more information on what tank these plants are in would be helpful, what size, what ferts and how much you are adding each week, lighting, CO2 etc..... From your indroduction my first guess would be that you need to be adding KNO3, and probably more KH2PO4..... but its hard to say with such lack of information about the set up.... please share more with us and we can better help you.

~Matt


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## alex_80 (Apr 17, 2006)

Thanks Matt! This particular tank is 10G.
Light: 2 screw-in fluorescent 11W bulbs (old bulbs).
DIY CO2
I add:
CSM+B: Fe - 0.03ppm every day.
K2SO4: K - 1.5ppm every day
I don't add P and N to this tank. It stays as NO3=5ppm, PO4=0.1ppm
Water changes - RO 40% twice a month.
I also add one 500mg tablet of CaCO3, 3/4 tsp of CaSO4 and about 1/3 tsp of MgSO4 right after WC.

I tried adding more CSM+B and K2SO4 and some KH2PO4 for 2 weeks. It didn't help.

Some other plants - few crypts, glosso, microsword, rotala repens are growing well.


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## yildirim (Nov 25, 2004)

Hi,

IMO you should consider adding more NO3 as I once have solved that problem with my reinecki and r.folia that way.

YILDIRIM


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## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

I too would consider adding KNO3 as a source for nitrates.... I dont know how your getting your figures but hobby grade test kits are known to not be accurate and I wouldnt base my doseing by the readings that they give you. I think you will probably see improvements within a week or two if you start adding say about 15 ppm KNO3 a week, and maybe 2 ppm KH2PO4 a week I would probably also split that up over 2 or 3 days through the week.... Let us know how things turn out

~Matt


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## alex_80 (Apr 17, 2006)

I made 3 test solutions of KNO3 - 10, 5 and 0ppm and measured them.
0ppm - 0ppm
5ppm - shown approximately as 5ppm (5 is the closest mark to the color I got)
10ppm - shown more than 10ppm (it's hard to tell, probably about 20ppm)

I'll try adding KNO3 in about 2 weeks as I already started adding CaCl2.


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## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

Sounds like a real good plan  its good to see that your willing to stick with things and work them out the right way doing one change at a time, so you can get to the bottom of things rather than just changing up a bunch of things and never knowing what fixed it.... good job  I know all to often I think we, my self incuded, want to see a quick response to change and after a few days get frustrated and more on to the next thing..... some times it hard to over come the urge to jump around like that.... but its like a dog chasing his tail!  lol

anyway let us know how it goes


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## alex_80 (Apr 17, 2006)

duplicated by mistake


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## alex_80 (Apr 17, 2006)

06-04-19: added 18ppm CaCl2
06-04-20: added 18ppm CaCl2
06-04-24: added 18ppm CaCl2
It is hard to tell yet if it helps. It seems to me though that Lysimachia nummularia 'Aurea' and Rotala macrandra 'Narrow Leaf' are doing better.
06-04-27: added 18ppm CaCl2
06-05-01: 30% WC, 24ppm CaCl2, 43ppm CaSO4, 3ppm MgSO4


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## alex_80 (Apr 17, 2006)

06-05-04: I can see a big improvement. There was just one new cramped tip for the last 5 days. New shots are very healthy and attractive. 
What a joy!!!
Probably I will not be experimenting with nitrates for now. My test shows 5-10ppm. This should be enough...


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## detlef (Dec 24, 2004)

Hi alex,

do you consider the additions of CaCl2 improved growth of the tips that much? 

You didn't raise NO3 levels, did you? 

Did you change anything else since you started adding CaCl2 on April, 19th (may be more CO2 from the DIY yeast has been helping as well)?

Did you keep CaSO4 and MgSO4 stable during the testing period?

Thank you,
Detlef


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## holocron (May 29, 2005)

I am currently having this issue in my 50g tank with rotala macrandra. You feel you solved the issue by adding CaCl2?


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## alex_80 (Apr 17, 2006)

detlef said:


> You didn't raise NO3 levels, did you?


No, I didn't add nitrates. I wanted to wait for 2 weeks and see if Ca helps.



detlef said:


> Did you change anything else since you started adding CaCl2 on April, 19th (may be more CO2 from the DIY yeast has been helping as well)?


I tried keeping the same routing as usual otherwise I couldn't know what caused the problem. I didn't change the CO2 bottle. The CO2 level was decreasing slowly but it is still ok now. I'll make a new mix next week.



detlef said:


> Did you keep CaSO4 and MgSO4 stable during the testing period?


I am adding CaSO4 and MgSO4 only at WC. I don't know if they change much between WC.


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## alex_80 (Apr 17, 2006)

holocron said:


> I am currently having this issue in my 50g tank with rotala macrandra. You feel you solved the issue by adding CaCl2?


Looks like the problem is solved.
My plans are:

I will discontinue CaSO4
I will be adding CaCl2 during WC only to target 70-80ppm of Ca in the replacement water.
I will be adding MgSO4 during WC only to target 6-7ppm of Mg in the replacement water.
Does anybody know the uptake of Ca and Mg?


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## detlef (Dec 24, 2004)

alex_80 said:


> Does anybody know the uptake of Ca and Mg?


I estimate for Mg round about 0,2ppm at max. per day. There is not much info available on the topic.
Regarding Ca I don't have any idea.

Thanks alex for replying,
Detlef


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