# two stage regulators



## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Hi guys and gals

Is there any interest in two stage regulators at this forum?

Thanks,
Left C


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## bosmahe1 (May 14, 2005)

Left C said:


> Hi guys and gals
> 
> Is there any interest in two stage regulators at this forum?
> 
> ...


I think there is at least one! :biggrin:


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## bosmahe1 (May 14, 2005)

bump.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Two.


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## darkoon (Jun 7, 2010)

looking to get one to replace Milwaukee that i accidentally blow


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Left C,

I currently only have NPT's. But if I go high-tech again, I'd like to get a super-high quality regulator similar to what you hold in your hand (in your avatar...a Victor body? ). Is that what you are referring to in your original post?

-Dave


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## pat w (Nov 2, 2009)

Of course. You put me on two stagers with that massive thread on TBR. With the deals to be found on Ebay I can't understand why you wouldn't want the added security and degree of control.

I say spread the gospel brudda.

Pat


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

davemonkey said:


> Left C,
> 
> I currently only have NPT's. But if I go high-tech again, I'd like to get a super-high quality regulator similar to what you hold in your hand (in your avatar...a Victor body? ). Is that what you are referring to in your original post?
> 
> -Dave


Hi Dave

You are right. That is a Victor two stage medium duty regulator.

It is a VTS253 model. Victor lists these in the VTS250 series. There are four models of this regulator; the A, B, C and D models. The differences are in the amount of pressure that they are rated for. Here's what the breakdown is with the low pressure gauge that it comes with:
VTS253A - 0 to 30 psi low pressure gauge - 2 to 15 PSIG
VTS253B - 0 to 60 psi low pressure gauge - 2 to 40 PSIG
VTS253C - 0 to 100 psi low pressure gauge - 4 to 80 PSIG
VTS253D - 0 to 200 psi low pressure gauge - 5 to 125 PSIG

All four of these models will work for us, but I prefer the A and the B models. The one in my Avatar is the D model.

These are Victor's "beginning" line of two stage regulators. The other brass models are more heavy duty, like the VTS453 series (VTS450 family). These can be used too, but they are larger and heavier.

Some other very good Victor two stage models are usually found chrome plated. These are:
VTS253A1993
SGT500 http://www.dmltrading.com.sg/documentation/SGT500.pdf
HPT270 http://www.dmltrading.com.sg/documentation/HPT270-280.pdf
HPT500 http://www.dmltrading.com.sg/documentation/HPT500.pdf
GTP270

I've purchased all of these regulators from $30 to $90 shipped. Some were new and some were in mint condition.

You will see most of these models listed with three more digits listed in their part number. This indicates the type of gas service and CGA fitting that it has. 320 is for CO2, 580 is for inert gas and so on. So, as an example, here are two: VTS253B-320, VTS253A-580.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

LeftC, thanks for that informative explantation and the links. It will take me some time to browse through them, but I do appreciate you posting the info (and I'll respond to your PM shortly).

Wow, $30-$90? That's amazing, as I had expected to shell out $300-$400 for one of these. That price puts me back into the paying field of high-tech.

What would you recommend as a proper needle valve (as precise, non-fluctuating and dependable as possible) to compliment a two-stage regulator?


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

davemonkey said:


> Left C, thanks for that informative explantation and the links. It will take me some time to browse through them, but I do appreciate you posting the info (and I'll respond to your PM shortly).


You are very welcome, Dave. I just sent you a bunch more information via PM.



davemonkey said:


> Wow, $30-$90? That's amazing, as I had expected to shell out $300-$400 for one of these. That price puts me back into the paying field of high-tech.


That's true. I've purchased Victor chrome plated brass hospital grade two stage regulator in mint and new condition for $30 to $60 shipped. I mentioned the following in my PM to you. I recently bought a brand new brass Victor regulator that retailed for $753 plus shipping according to Thermadyne. I paid $75 shipped for it. It was already set up for CO2 duty when it was manufactured. A person bought two, but he only needed one. I got the other one for what works to about 10% of retail including shipping. I have two Victor SGT500 high purity two stage regulators with stainless steel diaphragms. Their bodies are made of chrome plated forged 316L stainless steel. They were set up for CO2 duty. The output had Swagelok stainless steel adapters from the 1/4" regulator port down to 1/8" male fittings. They were ready for me to attach my solenoids and needle/metering valves. I paid $90 shipped for each of them. These some of the most expensive regulators that Victor makes. These regulators came from a Victor regulator technician and not ebay.



davemonkey said:


> What would you recommend as a proper needle valve (as precise, non-fluctuating and dependable as possible) to compliment a two-stage regulator?


Before I get started answering this question, let me mention something first about these valves. It is rare that we see Ideal needle valves on ebay. Most of them are purchased from Ideal or some companies like Rex Grigg or SuMo. I'm not sure if GLA will sell them. On the other hand, Swagelok, Nupro, ****** and Parker metering valves are spattered all over ebay and at prices all across the board. From 99¢ to well over a $100. You will have to shop around for a valve in your price range and with the specifications that you desire. Sometimes patience plays a big role in your selection process.

OK, back to the question. For the money, Ideal needle valves are terrific. These are the 52 brass series and 54 stainless steel series models with the 0.019 Cv at wide open. You can get them in straight flow or angle flow. You can get them with a knob for adjustment or a Vernier micrometer handle. Panel mount is another option and you can get your choice of handles in panel mount as well. They can even custom make valves for you. They chrome plated 10 for me last year.
http://www.idealvalve.com/

Swagelok, Nupro, ****** and Parker low pressure low flow metering valves work well for our use. There are many models available. Their low pressure medium flow metering valves are somewhat usable. The first part of the first turn is usable, but the other 9 to 11 turns are too much. Even with this small working range, they will hold their adjustment due to their fine workmanship and the steady flow of the two stage regulator that feeds it. All of these valves can either come with an adjustment knob or a Vernier micrometer handle as stock or added later. The low pressure high flow metering valves are too much for our use.
Swagelok metering valves and Vernier handles: http://swagelok.com/search/find_products_home.aspx?SEARCH=/search/Metering/id-10000276/type-1

The Vernier micrometer handle allows you to know exactly how many of its 22 to 24 revolutions in the Ideal needle valves or 10 to 16 revolutions of the Swagelok, Nupro, ****** and Parker metering valves that the valve is set at plus which part of its 360° revolution that it is set at too. When ever you rotate the handle for either increasing or decreasing the flow, you know exactly how far you adjusted it. If you would ever want to go back to a previous setting, you can easily find it. Or, if you did maintenance on it and had to turn it wide open. You can easily return to its setting. Also, let's say that you require a lot of CO2 for your aquarium. Sometimes the flow is so fast that you really can't count the bubble rate in your bubble counter. Many depend on their drop checker and their critters to tell them the stopping point. With the micrometer handle, you have the precision to know exactly how far out the valve is open. There is no need to try to count bubble at a frantic rate. You can easily fine tune it and return to your setting.

The regular handle model is cheaper, but still with precise flow control. You can follow your adjustments by counting the bubble count rather than on a micrometer handle. You can mark the adjustment knob for reference if you want to. If you would not need the precision of the micrometer handle, this would still work fine. You could always get the micrometer handle later if you want it. You can buy it separately if you wish. You just remove the stock knob with an Allen wrench and replace it with the micrometer handle. Then you "0" the handle out or you can call this "calibrating the handle."

Here is an odd quirk about needle and metering valves. Ideal calls theirs "needle" valves. They have no "metering" valves at this time. They do meter the flow very precisely though. Swagelok, Nupro, ****** and Parker call their valves that work for us "metering" valves. They do make "needle" valves, but they are much too coarse for our use plus their Cv can be 100 times or more too high. Don't even waste your time with their needle valves.

Here are a few pictures of the valves that I mentioned.

Ideal 52-1-12 brass angle flow needle valve









Ideal PV54-1-12 stainless steel angle flow panel mount needle valve with a Vernier micrometer handle









Ideal V54-1-11 stainless steel straight flow needle valve with a Vernier micrometer handle









Swagelok stainless steel angle flow metering valve









Swagelok silver mist plated brass straight flow metering valve with the Vernier micrometer handle









Swagelok Vernier micrometer handle option


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## Andy Ritter (Nov 26, 2008)

Wow.

Thanks Left C for all of the extremely thorough and valuable information.

If I ever have the need for another regulator or needle valve I'll definitely come back and reference this.

Andy


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Andy Ritter said:


> Wow.
> 
> Thanks Left C for all of the extremely thorough and valuable information.
> 
> ...


Thanks Andy

I hope that you get a chance to check them out.

How is the Bar-B-Que in Belmont? It is not that great here in Burlington.

Have you see the Victor thread at TPT and the Dual Stage thread at The Barr Report? If not, there are tons of info from many knowledgeable people.


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## Andy Ritter (Nov 26, 2008)

Left C said:


> How is the Bar-B-Que in Belmont? It is not that great here in Burlington.


Well, my family is from the eastern side of the state (Wilson), so I prefer the barbecue from there, but there are a few places where you can get some decent barbecue. Actually, the Culinary Arts teacher that teaches at the same school as I do is also from the eastern side, and she teaches the students how to make that style of barbecue and then sells it, so I always look forward to that time of year.



Left C said:


> Have you see the Victor thread at TPT and the Dual Stage thread at The Barr Report? If not, there are tons of info from many knowledgeable people.


I've never really spent any time checking out any of the other forums since I've always been happy with what I've been able to find here. Occasionally I'll follow a link that someone will post that takes me to another site, but I always come back after reading what they were directing me to. I've read your posts about two stage regulators in the past, and it appears to me that you really know your stuff. My regulator is doing fine right now, but the two stage ones definitely look like they would be the way to go if I ever need to get another one. When that time comes I'll go check out those other sites too.

Thanks again,

Andy


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Andy Ritter said:


> Well, my family is from the eastern side of the state (Wilson), so I prefer the barbecue from there, but there are a few places where you can get some decent barbecue. Actually, the Culinary Arts teacher that teaches at the same school as I do is also from the eastern side, and she teaches the students how to make that style of barbecue and then sells it, so I always look forward to that time of year.


That sounds very good. It is amazing that we have so many styles of Bar-B-Que in this state. Lexington style seems to be the most popular. We have one that several presidents and many important people have eaten at here in Burlington, but ... to me ... it is just OK.



Andy Ritter said:


> I've never really spent any time checking out any of the other forums since I've always been happy with what I've been able to find here. Occasionally I'll follow a link that someone will post that takes me to another site, but I always come back after reading what they were directing me to. I've read your posts about two stage regulators in the past, and it appears to me that you really know your stuff. My regulator is doing fine right now, but the two stage ones definitely look like they would be the way to go if I ever need to get another one. When that time comes I'll go check out those other sites too.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Andy


I think that both threads have had 125,000+ views and around 2700 posts. There's a bunch of material in them.


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## herns (Aug 28, 2007)

Left C,

That Ideal PV54-1-12 stainless steel & the V54-1-11 stainless steel will look great on 1993. Its expensive though.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Hi Herns,

Bill at Ideal told me: V52-1-12 chrome is $83.50 each and V54-1-12 is $112.50

Speaking of the VTS253A-1993 regulators, here are some new ones with the NuAire name plate: http://www.scientificvisions.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=52


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Left C said:


> Hi Herns,
> 
> Bill at Ideal told me: V52-1-12 chrome is $83.50 each and V54-1-12 is $112.50
> 
> Speaking of the VTS253A-1993 regulators, here are some new ones with the NuAire name plate: http://www.scientificvisions.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=52


Hi Left C,

Where can I purchase a new V54-1-12 is $112.50?

Btw, thanks for helping at The Barr Report


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## bosmahe1 (May 14, 2005)

Andy Ritter said:


> Well, my family is from the eastern side of the state (Wilson), so I prefer the barbecue from there, but there are a few places where you can get some decent barbecue. Actually, the Culinary Arts teacher that teaches at the same school as I do is also from the eastern side, and she teaches the students how to make that style of barbecue and then sells it, so I always look forward to that time of year.
> 
> I've never really spent any time checking out any of the other forums since I've always been happy with what I've been able to find here. Occasionally I'll follow a link that someone will post that takes me to another site, but I always come back after reading what they were directing me to. I've read your posts about two stage regulators in the past, and it appears to me that you really know your stuff. My regulator is doing fine right now, but the two stage ones definitely look like they would be the way to go if I ever need to get another one. When that time comes I'll go check out those other sites too.
> 
> ...


How does the barbeque differ in the east vs. the Durham area? I have family in Durham so I know their style of barbeque and I like it alot.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

barbarossa4122 said:


> Hi Left C,
> 
> Where can I purchase a new V54-1-12 is $112.50?
> 
> Btw, thanks for helping at The Barr Report


You can get Ideal valves from: http://idealvalve.com/Brass V52-1-12 or SS V54-1-12

You are very welcome for the help.


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Left C said:


> You can get Ideal valves from: http://idealvalve.com/Brass V52-1-12 or SS V54-1-12
> 
> You are very welcome for the help.


Hi,

Thank you. I sent you a pm, hope you don't mind.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

bosmahe1 said:


> How does the barbeque differ in the east vs. the Durham area? I have family in Durham so I know their style of barbeque and I like it alot.


Your question is more directly to the style of BBQ in Wilson where Andy is from which I've never had. Durham BBQ is mostly the eastern style. I prefer the Lexington style better than eastern style. Next time you are down, try to take a short trip down to Lexington, from Durham. Anyway, here are some links to NC BBQ:
http://ncbbq.com/Modules/Articles/article.aspx?id=20
http://www.northcarolinatravels.com/food/barbecue/index.htm

Bob Garner did some shows on UNC public TV about NC BBQ. He went to many places. Yum! Here's his book: http://www.blairpub.com/alltitles/bobgarnersguide.htm
table of contents: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Bo...olina-Barbecue/Bob-Garner/e/9780895872548#TOC

If you could be here this weekend, the 27th annual BBQ festival in Lexington is a big time, good eating time.
http://www.barbecuefestival.com/


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

barbarossa4122 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thank you. I sent you a pm, hope you don't mind.


Got it. Thanks!


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## bosmahe1 (May 14, 2005)

Left C said:


> Your question is more directly to the style of BBQ in Wilson where Andy is from which I've never had. Durham BBQ is mostly the eastern style. I prefer the Lexington style better than eastern style. Next time you are down, try to take a short trip down to Lexington, from Durham. Anyway, here are some links to NC BBQ:
> http://ncbbq.com/Modules/Articles/article.aspx?id=20
> http://www.northcarolinatravels.com/food/barbecue/index.htm
> 
> ...


I can't make it this weekend but, it sounds like I need to make a trip to Lexington sometime. I've travelled further for eating.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

bosmahe1 said:


> I can't make it this weekend but, it sounds like I need to make a trip to Lexington sometime. I've traveled further for eating.


You are not far away. Check it out.

You can get Garner's book and find some places not very far away and check them out. Or you can seach the table of contents list for places that way too.

I know what you mean. My old college buddy and I had a book about "meat and three's" in the southeast. We would plan our motorcycle trips around scenic places, curvy roads and the restaurants that he described near those areas. We hit just about all the restaurants in his book. It took about 8 years to do so, but hey were all terrific.


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