# Soilmaster and Sand



## MatPat

As of right now we have sources for both the Pro's Choice Soilmaster Select and 3M's Color Quartz black sand! Rob and I would like to place orders for both of these tomorrow morning (Tuesday).

400 lbs of sand works out to be about 55 cents per pound with shipping. Shipping is a flat $60 fee for the state of Ohio, up to 2200lbs. $60 is close to the cost of gas for me driving up there and back in my truck, assuming I don't get lost  The price per pound will drop a bit if we order more but this is only available in 50lb bags.

The Pro's Choice is about $11 for 50lbs and I will go pick that up since it is fairly close. This too is available only in 50lb bags.

Matt - $115.50
Soilmaster - 150lbs ($33)
Sand - 150lbs ($82.50

Rob - $77
Soilmaster - 100lbs ($22)
Sand - 100lbs ($55)

Damon - $38.50
Soilmaster - 50lbs ($11)
Sand - 50lbs ($27.50)

Sean - $77
Soilmaster - 100lbs ($22)
Sand - 100lbs ($55)

Russ - $66
Soilmaster - 50lbs ($11)
Sand - 100lbs ($55)

Erik
Soilmaster - 
Sand -

Post a response and I can edit the quantity of your post into this reply so we only have to look at one post when placing the order.


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## EcleckticGirl

I know this sounds ridiculously small, but I would like about 5 pounds each for a nano experiment and the paludarium I am planning. If you guys wouldn't mind gleaning from (or padding) your orders to give me a bit, I don't mind pitching in my $0.55/lb. The nano has a "foot" print of less than 5" X7". I have plenty of soil and other gravel to put with the Soilmaster for the paludarium land-side, but would like to try a bit for the small area of water. The 5 lbs may even be a gross overestimate, but what I don't use for these two projects, I have something else brewing...


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## ctmpwrdcamry

Has anyone found anyone using Soilmaster in their tanks? I know we were originally looking at Turface. Just curious as to the similarities.


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## MatPat

Check out this thread: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=10128

According to my research and post #8, Turface and Pro's Choice are the same thing.


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## MatPat

EcleckticGirl said:


> I know this sounds ridiculously small, but I would like about 5 pounds each for a nano experiment and the paludarium I am planning. If you guys wouldn't mind gleaning from (or padding) your orders to give me a bit, I don't mind pitching in my $0.55/lb...


I ordered a bit more than I need, at least for now, so I can share a bit of mine sand and Soilmaster with you Dineen.

If there is anyone else who needs a small quantity of either of these, let me know. I should be able to increase my order by 50lbs of each for those who may only want 5-10 lbs of it for smaller tanks. I can bring the extras to the meeting along with everything else

Tom had said that 50lbs of Turface mixed with 50lbs of sand would be more than enough for a 75g...


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## ctmpwrdcamry

Matt, I would like the same as Rob. I know i am only doing a 75 gallon(whenever i find one) but I am tempted to put this in my other thanks as well. Its cheap enough to get now i can leave it in the garage till later.


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## Troy McClure

I won't be able to order at this time. Oceanic taking forever with their price changes and until they get the materials costs worked out, all their custom work is on hold. However, the square inches for a 48x18 are the same as the 36x24 so I know I'll need 50lbs of each or 100lbs of the soilmaster.


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## MatPat

ctmpwrdcamry said:


> Matt, I would like the same as Rob. I know i am only doing a 75 gallon(whenever i find one) but I am tempted to put this in my other thanks as well. Its cheap enough to get now i can leave it in the garage till later.


Done 



Troy McClure said:


> I won't be able to order at this time. Oceanic taking forever with their price changes and until they get the materials costs worked out, all their custom work is on hold. However, the square inches for a 48x18 are the same as the 36x24 so I know I'll need 50lbs of each or 100lbs of the soilmaster.


I tried to order 200lbs of the Soilmaster last Thursday from Jeremy a E.E. Johnson and was told Jeremy's supplier will not deliver less than 600lbs to him. I don't know if there will be enough interest in more of the Soilmaster when your tank is ready. The sand is prety cost prohibitive to order also since shipping is a flat $60 for up to 2200lbs!

Sean may have more info on the shipping since he bought a bag or two from them before.


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## ctmpwrdcamry

Shipping on 50lbs was 40 dollars. That may have gone up due to gas prices.


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## JRJ

Russ
Soilmaster - 50lbs.
Sand - 100lbs.

Not sure I've followed all of this: when/how do I pay you Matt?

-Russ


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## MatPat

JRJ said:


> Russ
> Soilmaster - 50lbs.
> Sand - 100lbs.
> 
> Not sure I've followed all of this: when/how do I pay you Matt?
> 
> -Russ


I will be bringing the sand and Soilmaster to the October meeting so you can bring payment to the October meeting. Rob is ordering the sand so you will probably need to pay him for the sand and me for the Soilmaster. If you can't make the meeting we can work out another time


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## Simpte 27

Meeting time and date? (out of the loop lately)


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## molurus73

October 30. 1:00 pm. My house.


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## Simpte 27

You mean football time?!?!?!?!?! ACK!!!!! lol


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## molurus73

Yah, but no one here likes that crap anyways, right?


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## ElectricHead

NASCAR time....bummer


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## molurus73

Betcha a dollar the race just *might* be on tv here.


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## MatPat

Getting back on track...More bad news on the Soilmaster, Jeremy was not able to get the Soilmaster in today. Claims there was a mis-communication in the amount he could order. I didn't ask for anymore info since I was fuming at the time. 

Now that I have 500lbs of Black Sand in the back of my truck, things are starting to look bad for getting Soilmaster at all but I do have a couple more sources. I am working with the marketing manager for Pro's Choice right now and he gave me some leads, one in West Carrolton! I won't know anything until at least Monday but if things don't work out with the local suppliers, I may just drive to IL later in the week and pick some up myself!

I'll keep everyone informed...


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## Rob Tetrazona

I seem to remember finding gray Turface at a source in Greenford, OH...


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## molurus73

Is all of the sand accounted for?


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## MatPat

molurus73 said:


> Is all of the sand accounted for?


I believe it is Jim. I may have some extra when all is said and done and maybe some of the other will too!

IF we can get some of the Soilmaster Select in, I will definately have some extra sand. On that note, I got some very small samples of it in the mail today. Only the red color but the Soilmaster "Select" is definately a great size for planted tanks. Pretty much the same size as the Eco Complete we put into Dineen's tank. Very nice grain size as compared to the SAPS I have in my tank and also better when compared to my 2 y/0 Eco Complete.

It is slightly larger than the grain of the sand I posted in the substrates forum: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=10128&page=2

Let's hope something works out locally for the Soilmaster. After seeing the sample they sent, I am tempted to just get a whole pallet of it and hopefully be able to sell it somehow! Anyone have room to store 20 bags of this stuff?


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## molurus73

How much sand and Soilmaster would I need for 48" x 24" x 4"?


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## MatPat

Here's a good substrate calculator for those interested:

http://www.plantedtank.net/substratecalculator.html

I'm not exactly sure on the amount of Soilmaster you would need. It seems to be a bit smaller than Flourite or Eco (would need more) but larger than sand (would need less). I guess it would be a guestimate but having a little extra laying around never hurts!


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## MatPat

*Soilmaster is on it's way!*

It seems as if a big pat on the back is in order for Rob, AKA The Sandman! Rob has found a source for the Soilmaster Select Gray in Cinci and it has been ordered. We're not sure if it will be here in time for the meeting this weekend but it is a possibility. As a result, I think Rob's name should change from "Sandman" to "Substrate Man"!!!

The quoted price was $8.60 per 50lb bag (not sure if tax is included) so we are getting 1,000lbs (20 bags). I am guesstimating a bit over $9 per bag if they add in taxes. I will know more on the pricing once it arrives.

There should be plenty of substrate to go around for a little while. Plan on paying Rob for both the Soilmaster and Sand. I will come up with a Meeting Dues list and e-mail it to everyone later in the week since we have a few outstanding items right now.

Thanks for the hard work Rob!


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## Troy McClure

Substrate Man or Soil*MASTER*? Mass props to Rob!

If the SoilMaster Select is like the EC we put into Dineen's tank, put me down for three bags. That stuff was great! I'll add 125lbs to the 36x24x31 tank, then 25lbs to my 85gal. It'd probably be best if I could hold off picking it up until the November meeting, but I'll go ahead and pay upfront for it.


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## Rob Tetrazona

I have the new substrate in my tank. Look!










Oil-Dri Co. sent me a sample and I got it today. It's actually layered with TMS that Matt sent me. The gravel in the tank is that fancy Aquarium Adventure black gravel.


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## MatPat

Did Oil-Dri send you the Soilmaster or Soilmaster Select? Hard to tell from the photo. The Tahitian Moon Sand (TMS) is on top of the photo. Thanks for posting for everyone Rob!

Hopefully I will get the samples of the Soilmaster Green and Red in by the end of the week!

Are you ready to change out your tanks yet Rob?


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## plantbrain

I'm stopping off the grab an item or two Sat from a ag suppiler, I can pick up some of this same product.

I also have a source for the Barr's ADA soil now and will pick it up and give it a whirl. I';ll know inside 2-5 weeks whether it's as good since I'll use the ADA product and the Barr soil both with ADA powersand at the same time in different tanks. Then I'll go after powersand(which will be easy as I have every nutrient parameter and a method to test what ever is present including tannins. 

The soilmaster looks really good with that in tank color. That's a real weiner...err winner.

Now why would you buy Eco complete again? Stuff weighs the same as SM.
Better than the grey MPV turface. 

Add mulm and a little peat and rinse the SM good.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## EcleckticGirl

plantbrain said:


> The soilmaster looks really good with that in tank color. That's a real weiner...err winner.


Gotta love that meat cutter humor!


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## plantbrain

Shank you,
Yea, it goes over great with serious vegans (Killers of poor baby plants), I like talking about Kip veal to them, "It's the best kind, so tender and pure white meat"

Kip veal is unborn aborted calf meat. It's also the most expensive veal.

I am getting the ADA stuff Sat for the test after all.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Rob Tetrazona

The Soilmaster was delivered to my house today, so everything I have fronted money for is here. Here is the breakdown of who owe's me what:

http://home.cinci.rr.com/fishtanks/swoape/SubstrateOrders.htm

Matt, I owe you for the ferts, so subract that from your total.

Sean & Damon, you owe the total amount.

Russ I owe you some change since the estimate accounted for a 7.5% tax, but it was really 6.5%.

Those who owe me money know where to mail it to. Please do me a favor an let me know when you have dropped the check in the mail....or else I just may keep this stuff for myself!


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## ctmpwrdcamry

As soon as i get back to my desk i will send out my check.


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## Troy McClure

Is anybody doing ALL black sand? I'm anxious to see how this mix turns out.


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## MatPat

Troy McClure said:


> Is anybody doing ALL black sand? I'm anxious to see how this mix turns out.


I had thought about it but since the Soilmaster is in hand now, I will use the Soilmaster first and cover it with the sand. They will mix together soon enough 

The sand looks good by itself as does the Soilmaster.


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