# Digital Camera



## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

I'm looking on getting a digital camera for Christmas. I plan on spending no more than $500. I really liked the Sony DSC-H1 and the Canon PowerShot S2 IS, but I'm not sure how good they are by camera standards. Any good recommendations?


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## turbomkt (Mar 31, 2004)

Check out www.dpreview.com and some of the other sites. Check to make sure they have a good macro capability and are easy to use.

Depending on what you plan to use it for, you may consider a low end DSLR. With competition between Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Fuji, etc. they are getting quite reasonable.

$.02


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

I've checked out the reviews before, but thanks for the link. When you say macro range, what's a range I should be looking for? I noticed the PowerShot has 50cm while the Sony has only 2cm. What do you mean by DSLR?


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## turbomkt (Mar 31, 2004)

DSLR means digital single lens reflex. Most of what people think of as "real cameras" in the film world are single lens reflex. There is a mirror inside that reflects what the camera "sees" into the viewfinder. That way, what you see truly is what you get. Most digitals display what the sensor is seeing. This isn't a major issue, but I think the sensor can be made much more sensitive when it is only exposed and used for a small fraction of the time (My thoughts, not necessarily fact). DSLR's are also the ones that have interchangeable lenses. While it is costlier overall, you have significantly more options on lenses. Cameras that fall into this category are the Canon dRebel XT and 20D, the Nikon D50, D70s, and soon D200; Olympus E-300 and E-500 evolt cameras, Fuji Finepix 3000, Minolta Maxim 7D, etc...

Anyway..if you are going to shoot planted tanks, you may want to get a picture of something that is right up against the glass, or relatively close to it. With the Powershot you can't be any closer than about 20 inches. With the Sony you can be less than an inch away and the camera can still focus. This might not be an issue, but it could be. I've got the S1 and an Olympus C-750 UZ (OK, the Olympus is my wife's and the S1 is my daughter's  ). When I'm shooting hand held, I usually grab the Olympus because it has a very good Macro - The S1 doesn't effectively have a macro). BTW, DPReview says the S2 has a 10cm minimum focus on the Macro, so 4 inches.

Go somewhere you can try both of them side by side. Take your own memory (Borrow from a friend since the Sony uses a Memory Stick and the Canon uses SD memory) so you can take comparable pictures and bring them home to compare on your computer. The screens on the cameras are not enough for a good comparison.


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## fish7days (Jul 30, 2005)

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=8375


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## turbomkt (Mar 31, 2004)

fish7days said:


> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=8375


Good point. Plenty of threads out there.

Another source of information would be the Aquatic Photography Forums. But it's easy to get lost looking at the pictures others have taken!

--Mike


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## jerseyjay (Jan 25, 2004)

turbomkt said:


> Another source of information would be the Aquatic Photography Forums. But it's easy to get lost looking at the pictures others have taken!
> 
> --Mike


Not that bad Mike  Are you having problems navigating ?


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## turbomkt (Mar 31, 2004)

Not at all. I'm saying it's quite easy to forget what you're looking for and look at what others have done!

If I'm having problems navigating I'll bring it up over there


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

But wait, why is the Sony DSC-H1 'SLR-like'; so that means it has interchangeable lenses? Will I regret it if I end buying the Sony? And lastly I'm actually thinking of buying the Digital Rebel XT; what accessories should I consider with it?


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## turbomkt (Mar 31, 2004)

I'm not sure what the SLR-like part is. The lens is NOT removable AFAIK.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

i have the canon A95 powershot and am really really happy with it. if the powershot you are looking at is anything like the A95 then go for it. its got great macro for those close up pics. i love mine to pieces!!


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## turbomkt (Mar 31, 2004)

With the rebel XT, you'd want to start with a good macro lens...

Maybe Gomer will chime in with some of his thinking when he put the 20D in his sights...


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

I actually have the XT and no tthe 20D. I valued the lenses over the body.
I have the XT, 18-85mm IS USM, 50mm f4, and 70-200L. I could ahve gotten the 20D but would have to have given up a lot of lens to stay in budget. I can borrow my sister in laws 100mm macro whenever I want.

I used to have the olympus C-5050. For a non SLR, the onlything I didn't like about it was that you couldn't shoot remotely (via computer) for time lapse. That is it. Everything else was perfectly fine for what it was.

Ignoring the lenses, there are 2 huge things you gain with a DLSR. 1) autofocus time. The SLR focus time is leaps and bounds faster than the prosumer cameras. For shooting tanks, it doesn't matter, but if you want to shoot fish,...well...you will be shooting a lot of throw away photos till you get lucky. 2)The other thing you gain is image quality/speed. The sensor is larger andmore sensitive. Iso 400 on prosumers is quite noisy. Iso 400 on a dSLR is quite good! ...so when light is low, and you need to up the iso (say you need to keep the shutter speed and aperature the same), the DSLR will give a far better image.


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## turbomkt (Mar 31, 2004)

I thought you might be hanging around 

Thanks for chiming in (and refreshing my memory on which direction you went!).

--Mike


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

I think I'm going to go with the Sony; I mean I am currently on a college budget and I really do not think a DSLR camera would be a smart investment at this point in time. I mean how bad could the Sony be with 2cm range macro and 12x optical zoom? Any last suggestions?


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

Don't get me wrong, I loved my prosumer camera (olympus C5050). I just advice you give whatever camera you want a test try. Shoot at the high iso and see how noisy it is. Also see how fast the autofocus is if you plan on shooting things that move.


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## jec0995 (Nov 20, 2005)

Keep in mind that the 2cm range will probably not work well unless you have an external flash of some sort. If the flash is a simple flip up flash on top of the camera then the lens will actually block any light from the flash. You will get a picture with bottom half black and shaded. It will look like you put your finger in front of the lens...IME.  

I have the Canon Powershot S2 IS and I love it. It has a macro mode (10cm) and a super macro mode (0cm). It will actually focus at zero cm but the lens blocks the flash so it's pointless without an external flash. Besides, you never really need to get that close for the majority of photos. IMO, with all things equal, always go with Canon. Good luck with the camera.


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## troy_h (Jul 12, 2005)

I recently purchased a new point and shoot to replace an Olympus C-740. I looked at the S2 IS among other models because it had the 10X zoom I was looking for at minimum and image stabilization which was one of my main reasons for upgrading. I ended up going with a Panasonic DMC-FZ20 which was actually not one I considered originally (I mean come on, Panasonic???).

But I was able to put the S2 IS and the FZ20 side by side at the store and the Panasonic sold itself. The color is more accurate (at least to my eye), the picture is definitely sharper, the autofocus is substantially faster, and the image stabilization is at least as good, plus it just had a better feel (it's size and weight are more comparable to a full size SLR).

Of course the proof is in the pudding so:


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

That's a really great picture; clear and sharp. I've found this site: http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM is great for comparing cameras; not by specifications but my actual pictures. The author even comments on how great each camera's saturation, contrast, etc. is. What's great about the S2 is that it has a 'super macro' mode, but the Panasonic has better resolution. The G6 is another one to look at; much better than the PowerShot in everything except for the macro and zoom range.


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## fishfry (Apr 15, 2004)

I have the 20D and it is great!! If you check fatwallet.com there are sometimes great deals, I got the 20D kit that includes an 18-55mm lens for 1000+tax and free shipping. They also sometimes have the XT on sale at dell.com. This is my 3rd generation of canon SLR and you won't be dissappointed, previously I had a film Rebel and a film EOS-3.


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## troy_h (Jul 12, 2005)

The math was simple for me. A digital SLR, even a low end model like the Rebel or E Volt, with a piece of glass that even comes close to comparing to the glass on the FZ20 was easily three times the cost of the FZ20 with few benefits over the FZ20.

Right now, for what you pay for a low end SLR with a decent assortment of lenses, you can easily buy a point and shoot that at the very least equals the picture quality and capabilities at half the price.

Now if someone could make an adapter that would at least let me mount my FD lenses on a digital SLR and use them in manual mode ....


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## James.......... (Feb 8, 2004)

troy_h said:


> I recently purchased a new point and shoot to replace an Olympus C-740. I looked at the S2 IS among other models because it had the 10X zoom I was looking for at minimum and image stabilization which was one of my main reasons for upgrading. I ended up going with a Panasonic DMC-FZ20 which was actually not one I considered originally (I mean come on, Panasonic???).


Your focus is not on the "Panasonic" name, it ought to be on the "Lecia" name on the lens barrel. Panasonic and Lecia have teamed up to produce the Lumix line of cameras and they are sweet machines. There are lots of other brands and models available today so it can be harder to find a bad camera than it is to find a good one.

The small thumbnail image which is attached to my name when I post here was taken using a Lumix DMC-FZ10 (a model from a few years ago). It isn't a great macro shot, merely a quick picture I snapped while waiting for a rain shower to pass, but the results at 8X10 knocked my socks off.

Digital "point and shoot" cameras do tend to suffer in comparison to full size SLR's (the images are noisier) but this can be overcome with experience in using the camera.

My "next" camera is more than likely going to be the Lumix FZ30, the "grandchild" of the FZ10 I currently use. My sister is anxious for me to "move on up" as she will get the older camera when I do so.

Comparing actual images is more important than comparing "specs" when choosing a camera.

James Purchase
Toronto


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## jppurchase (Dec 15, 2004)

James Purchase said:


> The small thumbnail image which is attached to my name when I post here was taken using a Lumix DMC-FZ10 (a model from a few years ago). It isn't a great macro shot, merely a quick picture I snapped while waiting for a rain shower to pass, but the results at 8X10 knocked my socks off.
> 
> James Purchase
> Toronto


Oops! wrong account - the thumbnail is attached to this message.

James Purchase
Toronto


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## Terrybo (Jul 2, 2005)

Does anyone here have the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ5? I've been reading about it, and it seems pretty good, but I'd love to get the opinion of someone who has owned one. (It has 5 megapixels and 12X optical zoom).

Terry


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## jppurchase (Dec 15, 2004)

Terrybo said:


> Does anyone here have the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ5? I've been reading about it, and it seems pretty good, but I'd love to get the opinion of someone who has owned one. (It has 5 megapixels and 12X optical zoom).
> 
> Terry


Its basically an updated version of the camera I have (DMC-FZ10). With 5 MP you could enlarge a picture to 8X10 and the picture would be indistinguishable from one taken using a film camera. There is also a photo assist lamp, which would help in low light shooting situations. The photo assist lamp is VERY helpful and the main reason I want to move to the FZ30.

The Lecia lenses on these models are really nice but the cameras are "noisy". You would have to use a full SLR (bigger CMOS sensor as opposed to the CCD sensor) to get rid of all of the "noise" in images. Most of the noise can be eliminated by post production manipulation of the image. Photoshop Elements is great for this.

You won't regret buying the FZ5.

James Purchase
Toronto


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## Terrybo (Jul 2, 2005)

Thanks James!

Terry


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