# Sumps and planted tanks?



## gspicer24 (Sep 6, 2014)

I'm stuck..
I know that plants need more CO2 than oxygen..because they obviously provide a good supply of O2.

But, on my 55 gal set up it have a DIY 10 gal sump.
I eliminated A LOT of surface agitation from the return/power head.

The sump is trickling over thin pad and blue sponge.
Should I remove the trickle and submerge the inlet pipe into the first stage of the sump to reduce the gas exchange?

NOTE: I do not have any CO2 injections, and the way I test for CO2 right now is by testing kH and pH.

Thank you so much in advance!!!



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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

If you are not adding any co2 it makes little difference, It may actually help.


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## gspicer24 (Sep 6, 2014)

BruceF said:


> If you are not adding any co2 it makes little difference, It may actually help.


So, the last idea of my post "remove the trickle and submerge the inlet pipe to reduce gas exchange." ?

I can do that. I'm getting good growth out of my dwarf sag. But diatoms are beginning to bloom along the bottom where the substrate and glass meet. 
My ludwigia palustris has had diatoms on the leaves for awhile now and are melting away.

I just want to try what ever I can!! Thanks a lot 























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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

I don't think it will make any difference at all. As long as you are not adding any co2 it just won't matter. 

The plants are in transition and the diatoms will work themselves out in the end. Some plants may not make it.


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## Yo-han (Oct 15, 2010)

Try to visualize what happens: With max gas exchange CO2 will be around 4 ppm. Without any gas exchange, CO2 will get to 0 ppm. Without gas exchange and with added CO2, you get get 30 (or anything you like) ppm. With a lot of gas exchange and added CO2 you get closer to 4 ppm again (or you need to diffuse a lot of CO2). What case represents your tank most? Now tell me whether it would be better to have a lot or no surface movement for your tank...

You'll notice me saying nothing about the brown algae, that is because it has very little to do with the rest of your story a sump is the best you can have, also for a planted tank! In case you add CO2, minimize surface movement (seal off sump). Without added CO2, it's only benificial!


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## gspicer24 (Sep 6, 2014)

Yo-han said:


> Try to visualize what happens: With max gas exchange CO2 will be around 4 ppm. Without any gas exchange, CO2 will get to 0 ppm. Without gas exchange and with added CO2, you get get 30 (or anything you like) ppm. With a lot of gas exchange and added CO2 you get closer to 4 ppm again (or you need to diffuse a lot of CO2). What case represents your tank most? Now tell me whether it would be better to have a lot or no surface movement for your tank...
> 
> You'll notice me saying nothing about the brown algae, that is because it has very little to do with the rest of your story a sump is the best you can have, also for a planted tank! In case you add CO2, minimize surface movement (seal off sump). Without added CO2, it's only benificial!


Okay, and I have no co2 to put into my tank. So I took away the surface movement altogether. Besides what the overflow box is doing. 
And also with surface movement it doesn't just affect the gas exchange, it'll have affect on my ph and kH as well.

Thanks for the help!

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## Yo-han (Oct 15, 2010)

You didn't get it. You want to have as much movement as possible when you don't add CO2. This way CO2 will always be 4 ppm instead of 0. 

It doesn't do anything with KH (how does lime get in or out with more movement) and it will do almost nothing with pH. If anything, pH will be more stable with more movement!


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## Tugg (Jul 28, 2013)

Well...... this isn't 100%. This doesn't apply to the OP, but those that have a soil substrate have a slightly elevated CO2 level and then minimizing surface movement could be a means to help hold it in the water.

By the looks of the pictures attached, it's just sand and then yes, maximizing the gas exchange can help maintain the 4ppm.

gspicer24, with your setup, you'll want the overflow skimming the surface constantly and then showing the wet/dry. This will help maximize the ability for the water to reabsorb atmospheric CO2 as the plants consume the tiny amount in the water.

Only tanks that have an elevated CO2 level (be it soil, pressurized, or DIY) should minimize gas exchange. This is because with an elevated level, it will escape the water into the air (outgas).

As Yo-Han stated... kH has nothing to do with this in your case. It's only a buffer that stabilizes your pH by slowly neutralizing the various acids that the aquarium will produce from it's biological functions.


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