# Modified El Natural?



## beznsarah (Aug 1, 2006)

I was reading up on the El Natural method and I found this article by Tom Barr. It seems like a modified version of the El Natural method and I was wondering if anyone had experience with this. Has anyone tried it or been able to try both methods to see which works best?

The main differences are:

Occasional light dosing (Weekly)
No soil, instead Peat moss or other organic matter under gravel
3-6" of substrate (I read this somewhere but can't find at the moment)

Article on modified method:
http://www.barrreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=395

Discussion on Peat:
http://tinyurl.com/qkrq8

Thanks!


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## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

I have tried the methods Tom describes in his article on two 10 gallon tanks I have. Both fitted with AH supply 2 x 13 watt CF.... no reflectors in a "stock" hood. 

I went ahead and used about 1.5" of soil in the substrate covered by a healthy 3-4" of shultz aquatic plant soil..... better known as turface... or soil master select.... they are all basically the same other than color. 

I do dose lightly.... once a week with stock solutions, around 2.5 ppm N, and .5 ppm P.... along with light trace dosing. It has worked out really well for me, simply set up and forget about type deal. little to no algae other than what is brought in from outside plants, and things grow well for the most part.


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## beznsarah (Aug 1, 2006)

Good to know. I"m trying it on a 75 gal, started about 2.5 wks ago we'll see how it goes. You got any pics of your tank to share?

I just stumbled upon the El natural forum today. If i'd had seen it before I probably would have went that route but I'll stick with this for now. I'm sure there's more than one way to do it.

Just nice to hear other's doing what I'm trying successfully. I wonder if both are about the same or if the dosing makes a big diff. I would think over a long period of time(months/years) you would have to dose some nutrients when the soil runs out of it.



MrSanders said:


> I have tried the methods Tom describes in his article on two 10 gallon tanks I have. Both fitted with AH supply 2 x 13 watt CF.... no reflectors in a "stock" hood.
> 
> I went ahead and used about 1.5" of soil in the substrate covered by a healthy 3-4" of shultz aquatic plant soil..... better known as turface... or soil master select.... they are all basically the same other than color.
> 
> I do dose lightly.... once a week with stock solutions, around 2.5 ppm N, and .5 ppm P.... along with light trace dosing. It has worked out really well for me, simply set up and forget about type deal. little to no algae other than what is brought in from outside plants, and things grow well for the most part.


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## vollman1 (Jul 25, 2006)

I am also interested in any photos you may be able to share of tanks using this method. 

Also, a photo journal of the new 75 gal would be nice to see!


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

I guess you could say I'm a purist b/c what Tom describes is not "El Natural", modified or otherwise (no disrespect to Tom, I think he's an excellent fish and plant keeper). I think that that description is for what I would call a "low tech" tank. El Natural, NPT, Walstad-style to me means soil and gravel substrate, moderate lighting (often supplemented with sunlight), moderate stocking density and NO dosing except in very rare cases when the health of the plants and/or fish deem it necessary. When dosing is done, it should be done w/ natural substances (eg, to increase hardness: oyster grit in the substrate, epsom salt, and things of that nature).

Now please, bear in mind, that is my very subjective view on the matter. Others will agree and disagree to different extents and that's not to say that Tom's method won't work. It could work, but the main point is that with soil in the tank you don't NEED to dose. All your nutrients are already contained in the soil in extraordinarily high concentrations (see chart in EotPA pg. 83). If you're using peat moss then yes, dosing would probably be required as peat probably does not contain as many nutrients as regular potting soil. If you dose a tank w/ a soil substrate you could end up w/ a nutrient overload and as a result, an algae problem.

Ok well, that's my $0.02. Keep us posted on how your 75 gal comes along.

-ricardo


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## beznsarah (Aug 1, 2006)

I'd just like to find out how well or if the "modified method" works for those that have tried it. Although, I do think the "Walstad method" sounds good and appears to give good results based on posts in this forum.

Granted there is more than one way to do things so I just want to make sure i'm headed in a direction that will work. Another thing to consider is that "there is always room for improvement". It could be possible that certain modifications to an existing method could yield an even better method, etc. I'm sure Walstad's approach has evolved over time. 

Thanks for your input this is how we can all learn together!


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

I totally understand! That's why I'm interested to see how your approach comes out... Have you started the tank yet?


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## beznsarah (Aug 1, 2006)

Yep, it's been 2.5 weeks, I guess i might start a journal to let everyone know how it goes


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

Definetly! Take some pics too if you can. Let us know your dosing schedule too...


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

A good friend of mine uses soil in high tech setups i.e. high lighting and pressurized CO2 addition. The key is to mineralize the soil first by making it go through several wet/dry cycles before use.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

beznsarah said:


> I would think over a long period of time(months/years) you would have to dose some nutrients when the soil runs out of it.


You're right that eventually the soil will run out of nutrients, especially the ones that plants require lots of (phosphates, potassium, calcium).

The fishfood input replenishes the soil. See my book page 80.

When you feed your fish, you are also feeding your plants. Fishfood has all the nutrients that plants need. Fish, snails, and bacteria convert fishfood into plant nutrients.


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