# Algea Attack!



## azzazal (Dec 27, 2007)

I give up!
I am being attacked with Algea when the only thing that has changed is I added catfish.
I don't mind it on the wood, but my plants!

Any ideas what to do?
I tried a few days with no light.
The levels are normal, no spikes in anything.
No excess feeding, at least I don't think so.

I added some SAE last week, i watched them, they seem to like the glass better then the plants.

I'm such a newbie so sorry if i left anything out.


----------



## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

That stuff is blackbeard algae (BBA). You can kill it off slowly by increasing the CO2 levels in the water. 

Or a quicker fix is to buy flourish excel and squirt it directly onto the algae with a syringe with x2 recommended dose. So follow the directions for the initial dose and then every other day add x2 or x3 recommended maintenance dose. Excel is really the only thing that works well for this stuff in my experience. It also kills off other types of algae and nourishes your plants so its pretty good stuff.


----------



## azzazal (Dec 27, 2007)

Zapins said:


> That stuff is blackbeard algae (BBA). You can kill it off slowly by increasing the CO2 levels in the water.
> 
> Or a quicker fix is to buy flourish excel and squirt it directly onto the algae with a syringe with x2 recommended dose. So follow the directions for the initial dose and then every other day add x2 or x3 recommended maintenance dose. Excel is really the only thing that works well for this stuff in my experience. It also kills off other types of algae and nourishes your plants so its pretty good stuff.


Thanks! ok, newbie question, since i don't have a co2 tank...i guess i can only do the flourish?

ok, stupid question...do i take the plants out and squirt and then replant? i usually drop a capful into the entire tank. or do i put the syringe into the water and try my best? and if it's on every plant, how many syringe fulls can i do?

THANKS!!!


----------



## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Zapins said:


> Or a quicker fix is to buy flourish excel and squirt it directly onto the algae with a syringe with x2 recommended dose. So follow the directions for the initial dose and then every other day add x2 or x3 recommended maintenance dose. Excel is really the only thing that works well for this stuff in my experience. It also kills off other types of algae and nourishes your plants so its pretty good stuff.


Keep plants in tank. If it's all over you can just do 2X dosage in entire tank. It's not going away in a couple of days. Sometimes it take 3 weeks. Up your CO2 and use excell. I have taken plants out and used peroxide. That works too but it disrupts roots. It works fast but I don't like to uproot my whole tank. I may tank the worst offenders out and do it. It turns pink, then gray and the fish eat it when it's dead. Here is a link about the peroixde. http://www.gpodio.com/h2o2.asp

Good luck. I'm fighting the beginnings of the same thing since gone for 2 weeks and things got out of balance.


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

You didn't say how much light you use, nor how big the tank is, nor how you fertilize the plants. That information is very important. Once you get past 2 watts per gallon on tanks bigger than 15-20 gallons you almost have to use pressurized CO2 in order to maintain the concentration of CO2 uniform enough not to trigger algae attacks. And, healthy, growing plants are the best defense against algae, which means a good fertilizing program.


----------



## azzazal (Dec 27, 2007)

hoppycalif said:


> You didn't say how much light you use, nor how big the tank is, nor how you fertilize the plants. That information is very important. Once you get past 2 watts per gallon on tanks bigger than 15-20 gallons you almost have to use pressurized CO2 in order to maintain the concentration of CO2 uniform enough not to trigger algae attacks. And, healthy, growing plants are the best defense against algae, which means a good fertilizing program.


It's a 25 gallon tank. It's deeper then it is wide.
I have a Coralife light with 65W bulb in it. for the back
and a Lifeglow2 15W for the front.
No algea problems for the year it's been un and running.

There's about 3 inches of Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium Substrate

I used the Flourish once a week.


----------



## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

azzazal said:


> It's a 25 gallon tank. It's deeper then it is wide.
> I have a Coralife light with 65W bulb in it. for the back
> and a Lifeglow2 15W for the front.
> No algea problems for the year it's been un and running.
> ...


*How long do you leave the lights on for?*

It is difficult to make generalization as algae may have more than one cause and what works for one person may not work for another, so this may or may not work for you but at this point you have nothing to lose by trying.

Lately I have been testing different photoperiods, and noon burst lighting on different tanks to see if they assist in preventing algae outbreaks and their effectiveness in treating existing algae issues. So, far I have had the best results with a split photoperiod. Lights on from 12:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. off from 5:30 p.m. to 7:30 p.m. and then back on from 7:30 p.m. to 9:30 p.m. for a total of 7 hours. This may or may not work for you, but it may be worth a try combined with the other redemial actions posted by others. While you are at it, also add some floating plants. I have had great success getting a algae breakout under control by using floating plants.

Good luck.


----------



## azzazal (Dec 27, 2007)

Homer_Simpson said:


> *How long do you leave the lights on for?*
> 
> It is difficult to make generalization as algae may have more than one cause and what works for one person may not work for another, so this may or may not work for you but at this point you have nothing to lose by trying.
> 
> ...


since i started the tank, i've had the lights on from 9am to 6pm.
i just went to the fish store and bought 4 more SAE and 9 flag fish
rumor has it those eat this type of algea
the guy thought i was nuts
so, i have a separate tank of goldfish so i put some "hairy" plants in there with some flag fish and SAE.
we shall see what helps.
i put the rest in the main tank
oh, and i got some duck weed

i have had the lights turned off now for two days.


----------



## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Leaving the lights off will not kill your BGA, at least until you have already killed your plants and that is not the goal. You have too much light over the tank in my opinion. You have about 3wpg of light on the tank with minimal fertilization and are not giving the plants a carbon source. If it were me I would (at a minimum) start using some Flourish Excel as a carbon source for the plants. If you start using Excel, you will also need to increase your usage of Flourish. The plants will need more Flourish (their food source) as they begin to grow faster. 

To kill off the BBA, you can do as Zapins recommended and spot treat with Excel. The spot treating method using a syringe is meant to be done with the plants in the tank. You could remove them from the tank and put them in a concentrated solution of Excel and water also. I don't have a recommendation as to the strength of this solution...I have always just eyeballed it  Anubias species will be OK in a stronger solution but other plants may not tolerate the Excel bath, so be warned. 

The BBA will come back until you address the lighting issue or start adding a carbon source to the tank. I would try adding some Excel to the tank and cutting back your lighting period to 6 hours and see how this does. I'd do away with the extra 15w of light until you get the algae under control, then you can experiment with more light. 65w should be plenty for a non-CO2 injected tank.

I've never had much luck with fish or shrimp controlling algae. I honestly think by the time we can see algae in our tanks, it has already progressed past the point of fish or shrimp being able to control it. SAEs seem to prefer regular fish food over algae in my experience. Maybe if you don't feed any fish food you will have better luck with them than I did


----------



## azzazal (Dec 27, 2007)

thank you everyone for your help.
i did a 50% water change. 
i tested the water in the tank for phosphorus, which i have never done.
eekkk!!! over 10!!!
i tested the tap water, there is no phosphorus in that
so, i did the 50% change
vacuumed as best i could

still over 10 for the levels
geez!!!


----------



## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

azzazal said:


> thank you everyone for your help.
> i did a 50% water change.
> i tested the water in the tank for phosphorus, which i have never done.
> eekkk!!! over 10!!!
> ...


How were your nitrates, were they high as well? Don't put too much faith in your test kits unless you have calibrated them. I would still look at your lighting as the cause along with a lack of carbon for the tank. If you don't want to add a carbon source either drop your lighting to around the 2wpg level or shorten the photoperiod.


----------



## azzazal (Dec 27, 2007)

my nitrates are at 0
i even tested the tap water that i use...it's all 0


----------



## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Having no nitrates is more than likely the cause of your algae (along with the lack of a carbon source and high light). Plants need nitrates and phosphates along with micro nutrients to grow. You are supplying all of these with the Flourish but probably not enough considering your light level. 

I wouldn't worry about the high PO4 as much as I would worry about the low NO3 levels. I would either get some Flourish Nitrogen (or whatever they call it) or get some KNO3 (potassium nitrate) and start adding it to the tank. KNO3 will be much cheaper.

It would appear your high phosphates have caused the plants to use up any NO3 that is in your tank. This will slow plant growth and allow the algae to start appearing. If you have not experienced any other types of algae yet, you probably will if you don't start adding some NO3 to the tank


----------



## azzazal (Dec 27, 2007)

my phospate level is still crazy. and i even added phosphate remover to the filter. i scrubbed off all the algea from the plants. it's back. so, i ordered flourish nitrogen. should i replace all the plants as well?


----------



## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

There is no need to replace your plants they will outgrow the algae is you put the advice to use that you have already been given. 

Until you either address the lack of a carbon source in your tank (add either CO2 or Flourish Excel) *or* reduce the intensity or photoperiod of your lights _*and*_ add some nitrates to your tank, you will probably battle algae.

Don't worry so much about what you perceive to be excess phosphates until you address the lack of nitrates. According to the City of Dayton, 6ppm of phosphates are in my tap water and I dose based on keeping my tank at 2ppm (not including the City's addition of 6ppm). I don't have algae issues with this amount of PO4 until I let my nitrates drop to zero.


----------



## azzazal (Dec 27, 2007)

MatPat said:


> There is no need to replace your plants they will outgrow the algae is you put the advice to use that you have already been given.
> 
> Until you either address the lack of a carbon source in your tank (add either CO2 or Flourish Excel) *or* reduce the intensity or photoperiod of your lights _*and*_ add some nitrates to your tank, you will probably battle algae.
> 
> Don't worry so much about what you perceive to be excess phosphates until you address the lack of nitrates. According to the City of Dayton, 6ppm of phosphates are in my tap water and I dose based on keeping my tank at 2ppm (not including the City's addition of 6ppm). I don't have algae issues with this amount of PO4 until I let my nitrates drop to zero.


ah, so i need flourish excel. i tried playing with the lights for a few weeks. didn't make a difference. and i do have 0 nitrates. carbon source? like the carbon in the filter?


----------



## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

No, Flourish Excel is a carbon source for your plants (it provides no NO3 or PO4) as is CO2 (carbon dioxide). Granulated carbon you put into your filter is not a carbon source for the plants  

Given you have no carbon source in your tanks, the reduction of your photoperiod or the intensity of light will take several weeks to notice any difference if you notice a difference at all. You have a good amount of light over your tank (65w + 15w = 80w) or over 3wpg. Adding Flourish Excel will be a big help in eliminating your algae woes assuming you also add some NO3 for the plants. Adding either the Flourish Excel or Flourish Nitrogen alone will be a help but adding both will be much better.


----------



## azzazal (Dec 27, 2007)

thank you, eventually i will get the hang of this!!! rayer:
hopefully before i kill all my poor fish!

ok, i will pick up both flourish's. excel and nitrogen!

i have great onion plants in the back that i love so much...
but they are so ugly with this algae growing on them.


----------



## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

azzazal,

I've been following this thread from afar. I think MatPat's advice is right on. You have quite a bit of light over your aquarium. If your plants don't have the necessary nutrients they won't be able to "use" the available light and you'll battle algae continuously. By far, the most important nutrient after light is CO2. Some dissolves in the water from the air, but most of us supplement with pressurized CO2, DIY CO2 from fermentation, or Flourish Excel. In a high light tank you'll also need to supplement with macro (NO3, PO4, K) and micro (Fe, Mn, Zn, B, & others) nutrients. Don't worry about what the phosphate kit is telling you. I'd worry far more about having zero nitrates. Plants in a high-light setup do not tollerate that.

When I lived in MA I got some great advice from the people at NEAPS. Unfortunately I think the club sort of fell apart, but there are lots of knowledgable people in the area that could help you out. Try sending a PM to Dennis, Texex84, or Vancat. They all live in the area and could give you some hands-on advice.

The best advice I could give you is to reduce your bioload (the supposed algae consumers are probably doing more harm than good) and to start adding CO2.


----------



## azzazal (Dec 27, 2007)

got the flourish excel and flourish nitrogen.
added the recommeded amount.
wish me luck!


----------

