# starting up walstad 20gal



## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

i have started up a tank last night with a layer of soil, old from plant that I have had a long time, and a layer of playsand. the sand is about an inch thick and so is the soil layer. I also mixed a small amount of worm castings and eggshells into the soil layer as well. 

The plants are doing well as of today. I am running an AC Hob with some floss for particulate in it. This is stirring up the water at a nice steady rate. 

I have one orphan platy and one orphan guppy in there for the moment. The sand was out of my 60gal and had plenty of piggy back mts in it. I filled my tank with water from my other planted. I think that I have seeded it quite well with beneficial bacteria for the cycle.

The plants I have in there are pygmy chain swords, moneywort, and cryptocyrne wedtiii. I have spaced the plants out about 1.5 in apart over the whole tank bottom with a 3 rocks for hardscapes.

I am wondering, do I do w/c every other day like some suggest or week? Im not sure what to do from here. Im waiting for my plants to begin to be visibly grown in before I add too many more fish to the setup. 

Also, the tannins in my tank arent super dark, but green teaish. Is this something that fades with time?

Thanks for the help, Im totally glad to have found this site, and the walstad method as fish tanking was beginning to get dull for me over on the ei side of the fence.


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## Luffy (Aug 23, 2012)

Pictures would be great! It's always fun to see how these tanks develop. Sounds like you've got plenty of plants though. Sometimes it helps to put extra stems or floating plants at the beginning just to make sure any ammonia spikes are taken care of.

For me, I didn't do any water changes at the beginning because I hadn't added any fish. Test the water daily just to make sure there aren't any spikes. If there are, do a change; if not, you might not need to. 

My water has always been a bit yellowish (hardly noticeable) but you can get rid of that with water changes if you really want to. I tend to leave the coloring. I think it's good for the fish because I've never had ich in my tank (even though I picked up some fish that developed ich problems in the aquarium store soon after).


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## JeffyFunk (Apr 6, 2006)

jamesbarr said:


> I have one orphan platy and one orphan guppy in there for the moment. The sand was out of my 60gal and had plenty of piggy back mts in it. I filled my tank with water from my other planted. I think that I have seeded it quite well with beneficial bacteria for the cycle.


Bacteria are mainly found on surfaces, not floating around in the water, so while no harm was done, I don't think you really "seeded" the tank. Bacterial colonies will form naturally over time.



jamesbarr said:


> I am wondering, do I do w/c every other day like some suggest or week? Im not sure what to do from here. Im waiting for my plants to begin to be visibly grown in before I add too many more fish to the setup.


Daily water changes are recommended mainly with the use of ADA Aqua Soil because of the ammonia/ium that it releases. Water changes, although usually beneficial, are not necessary for soil substrate tanks.



jamesbarr said:


> Also, the tannins in my tank arent super dark, but green teaish. Is this something that fades with time?


The color may fade, but are easily removed with the use of activated carbon or water changes.


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

Luffy said:


> Pictures would be great! It's always fun to see how these tanks develop. Sounds like you've got plenty of plants though. Sometimes it helps to put extra stems or floating plants at the beginning just to make sure any ammonia spikes are taken care of.
> 
> For me, I didn't do any water changes at the beginning because I hadn't added any fish. Test the water daily just to make sure there aren't any spikes. If there are, do a change; if not, you might not need to.
> 
> My water has always been a bit yellowish (hardly noticeable) but you can get rid of that with water changes if you really want to. I tend to leave the coloring. I think it's good for the fish because I've never had ich in my tank (even though I picked up some fish that developed ich problems in the aquarium store soon after).


Ill get some pics up as soon as I can. Right now, with my pygmy swords so spread out, it looks like there is a deficiency in the plant department. There are lots however. 28 separate plants to be exact. They came out of my other planted, so they vary greatly in size. Just under 48 hours in there and they are already looking better than before. Tho, not by leagues or anything, after all, its not even been a full 2 days.

I added some plants to the tank to float around in the tank for a while. I added some Heminathus Micranthemoides and a few stems of moneywort along with an anubius to just flop about. IME these plants will be fine for a long time just chillin in the water column.

Thats pretty cool about the fish with ich. Does that mean that you got fish and yours were fine but fish from the same batch succumb to ich? If thats true, its awesome for you. I think I will leave it if thats the case as well.

The color is actually making me think blackwater. Does anyone have a list of fish that would do well as blackwater fish? I have serpaes in my other tank, and once my Walstad is established I think they would look good in there. Any thoughts? From what I gather, black water extract is pretty much the same as the tannins npt will have in them.


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## Luffy (Aug 23, 2012)

Yeah, the ones from the same batch succumbed. I've actually never had any fish deaths or disease in my NPT. Maybe I'm just lucky or maybe it's the tannins and plants... maybe a mix of both? I'm happy as punch about it.

Some blackwater fish include many tetras (neon and cardinal for sure), dwarf rasbora, licorice and chocolate gourami, all kinds of bettas. Right now I'm keeping Dwarf Chocolate Gourami which are a bit hard to find but are doing very well.


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

i tried to post a bunch of pictures but it gave me a message that it may take a while to show up as it needs to be approved by a mod. hopefully it shows up soon otherwise Ill try again tomorrow


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

James, this looks like a good start, but you really need to get a lot more plants in the tank. Walstad tanks depend on heavy planting right from the start for stability and removal of ammonia. Cheap, fast growing stem and floating plants are great for this. When the tank matures you can take them out if you don't like them.


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

would putting a bunch more HM in the tank to float around work? i live in a small town so they dont sell plants here. Also, the pics are quite misleading. My camera doesnt seem to show my pygmy chains very well. there is one plant every 1.5 inchs in the tank, and they have been growing very fast. Ill add more plants to be sure from my other planted tank. 

Any idea where my post with the pics went to?


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

as of now with 2 anubius nana plants, more moneywort, another crypt, a few more swords and another handful of HM.










from the end








from the front.

unfortunately my camera doesnt seem to pick up my pygmys...just a camera phone.


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## docjr03 (Feb 19, 2009)

I just set up a Walstad 20G high less than a month ago, and my water looked like that as well in the beginning (I am only using filter floss in the filter). I did 5 gal water changes daily for a few weeks, including a couple gravel vacuums with the first two, and it eventually cleared up. Although it still has a slight yellow/brown tinge to it in the bucket, it looks clear in the tank. I look forward to seeing more pics of your tank as the plants mature!


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

have you got a thread I can check your tank out in?

The colour isnt really too big a deal to me. Its actually inspired me to look at a blackwater set up and find ways to keep it that colour. This one however is just the experimental tank, so clearing up a bit would be nice for ease of monitoring plant growth and pictures.

I have done 2 w/c on it since I set it up on Sunday. I have also been dosing it with prime daily to mitigate ammonia spike as was recommended in the wiki I read. All my plants seem to be doing well so far. Looking forward to seeing my chain swords sending off running to affirm my faith in this system. From the looks of it tho, it shouldnt be too long for that to start happening. My moneywort has grown 1/2 to 3/4 inch in this week, they have also set out 'roots' along their stems which they have never done in my previous tanks but I am told this is a good sign. 

Thanks for reading my thread, Ill be sure post pics regularly for the first few months, no matter which direction it goes.


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

added hygrophilia pinnatifida and bacopa monnieri, both being stem plants as recommended. I bought 1 pot of each, so maybe 6-8 stems of hygro and 10 of bacopa. 
got a test kit, values all out of wack, did a big w/c and buffer for ph.

Beginning to get slightly green water. May begin a series of w/c til gone. see what it looks like tomorrow.


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

Tank today, after adding new plants. 
pH 7.2 today
Ammonia betweem 0.5 and 1 ppm. Much better than from the other day at 4ppm.
Did 25% w/c and added buffer for the pH.
Noticeable plant development at this point and much better colouration. My wendtii sent out a runner as well. good sign to me. Still waiting to notice some sword runners, but being patient as they werent doing super good in my other tank. I think that they needed some more recovery time. My amazon sword appears to be colouring up more and putting out new leaves. My moneywort is doing well. My new moneywort that I added a few days ago will need more time as well as my hygro before I can determine how they are doing.


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

planted my HM rather than allowing it to float around.

Todays tests
Nh3/4 .25ppm
No2 2ppm
No3 5ppm
Things are looking up as far as this goes. Day 9.


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

ok so my tank has held an NH3/4 value of .25ppm for the last couple days now. The next reading below this in my API test kit is 0ppm. Anything above that will read .25ppm. Would you guys recommend that I continue my daily w/c or should I start to space them out, knowing that the end goal for a walstad is the infrequent/never occurring w/c? In my mind .25 isnt high, or any sort of a spike. Thoughts? Today is day 11 since setting up.


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## docjr03 (Feb 19, 2009)

sorry I missed your question about my tank- no, I haven't posted any pics as of yet. I keep adding and moving plants which clouds the water, so I will take one once it clears again in a day or so. 

To answer your question; yes, I would change water until the tank is cycled. If I understand Diana's method correctly, the lack of water changes is possible to due to the presence of adequate plant growth. If you look at pictures of her tanks, you will see that they are FULL of plants. It appears to me that although you have a lot of plants, they are all quite small and maybe their total growth needs aren't aren't sufficient to suck up the Nitrites...? My guess would be that once your tank matures, you will have to do fewer water changes, but I will be interested to hear what more experienced tank keepers have to say about this issue since I would not considered myself particularly experienced.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Docjr is right--ANY measurable ammonia is more than you want. And you don't have sufficient plant mass to take care of it.


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

Ok cool. Im in a position where I will be needing to allow my plant mass to occur on its own from the plants that I have put there. I live in a rural town that has no live plants available and Id have to drive an hour and a half to get some. 

Seeing that I need more plants to accomplish this, and knowing they arent readily available, I will just have to keep at my w/c until things level out. 

Today I have found that my swords have begun to send off runners, so has my wendtii and moneywort. Seeing this encourages me since I know these will add to my plant mass and over the next couple months will begin to take care of my parameters. Im ok with this happening until I can get to the city to buy more plants or get a hold of someone from the fish club there to hook me up. Hopefully in the next couple weeks or so.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

It's too bad that you don't have access to a good store or a club. I am spoiled from our great club here.

But don't worry, time and water changes will take care of it.


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

Thank you for the encouragement. I think things will come along nicely as well


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## Mezuri (Dec 17, 2012)

Given time my friend everything will settle, I do strongly agree with the others on having more plants. I have a 40 gal and a thread on here for it. I started out much like you with little plant mass its now about 4 months old. Water is clear, no algae,no tannins,. Feel free to have a look at my thread. I hope the info in my thread from others helps you out like it helped me . Good luck, be patient!


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

Thanks Mezuri. Actually I read your thread the day after I started my tank. I think it was in there that I read about poking the sub to keep h2s build up from occurring. Have been doing that quite often because of that advice.

Your tank is looking nice. Im looking forward to seeing mine when is settled in totally 

Todays picture. 








I just trimmed the moneywort in the back, they were all about double as tall. Trimmings went back into the sub to speed up propagation  My HM has really settled in now and is beginning to spread out a bit and gain a little height. Also, my crypt in the back left (you cant really see it cuz its behind a rock) is putting out leaves like mad, has 2 runners now and is really getting that red colour. In my traditional planted tank it was doing very poorly. Testament to this style of tanks ability to be awesome  Today is day 16


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## Mezuri (Dec 17, 2012)

Right now your tank is coming along. Eventually you may encounter more plants then your tank can hold.. my 40 gal in my thread was my first im currently playing around in another 40 gal that is on my balcony with only natural light. I have been giving away and selling my plants every weekend cause they are remaking themselves so raplidly i cant use them all.. lol


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

added water sprite today to float around. should suck up a considerable amount of nutrients, also added one large dwarf sag, an orchid, a stem of ludwigia. I got them from a guy from a fish club in the city. Filled up my tank quite a bit. WIll post pics tomorrow.


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

My tank is really filling out I think. 








HM is really filling in 








Can anyone tell me what the name of the littl bushy plant is that it against the rock? I got it from a fish club guy in the city and can get ahold of him to ask.


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

Day 23 Still sitting at zero readings. Changing to weekly w/c with continued testing daily.
Due to the length of time with 0 readings I dubbed this tank safe for more fish as of 2 days ago. Added 1 albino cory, 6 Zebra Danios, 3 wc minnows. There was a platy in there from the beginning. I like to keep my tanks close to 2G per fish. This rule has worked for me for quite some time so I will try it here and see what happens. I only keep small fish tho.

I should also bring up that my substrate cross section is all wacky in front because I was poking it periodically in the beginning to help prevent my sub from going anaerobic. This was suggested to me by a guy on another forum who does walstads. He was saying that since he has started doing this in the beginning stages of the tank, he hasnt had one go anaerobic on him at all. I thought the advice was sound.


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

Front view








Side view

Day 28. Just about a month in. Added more fish 5 days ago. Anticipated spike didnt occur. Things are looking really good imo. Ive decided that the HM that I was so proud of was a better addition to my dsm so Im slowly removing it to allow for more pcs growth. They have really been filling in the left side of the tank. Fish appear really happy in there. Really happy I dove in and tried this out.


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## kerrigan007 (Apr 1, 2013)

You've got nice growth everywhere, this is nice! 
Keep us updated, I'm pretty sure that in 2-3 months, we won't recognize your tank.


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

Walstad update. Day 37. My tiger lotus is doing awesome. At the moment I am slowly thinning out the HM, I decided that I didnt really like them in there. I think they look too different from the rest of the plants. One of these things is not like the other Its going into my 30 to float around now that Ive transplanted enough into my dsm.



kerrigan007 said:


> You've got nice growth everywhere, this is nice!
> Keep us updated, I'm pretty sure that in 2-3 months, we won't recognize your tank.


Thanks for the encouragement! In truth, if I look over the pictures over the last month, I can hardly recognize my tank now  Im totally sold on the npt method, all my tanks are now dirty!


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

can anyone point me to a place that describes in detail how co2 is produced in the sub of a walstad? I have a friend inquiring about it and Im having a hard time finding a place where its described in detail. Thanks


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## qwe123 (Jun 15, 2011)

jamesbarr said:


> can anyone point me to a place that describes in detail how co2 is produced in the sub of a walstad? I have a friend inquiring about it and Im having a hard time finding a place where its described in detail. Thanks


In the book, chapter 4 section A talks a lot about it, namely decomposition of organic matter in the soil producing CO2 as well as methane oxidation. Chapter 5 section C also talks about the nutrients soil provides (including CO2), pointing out that 10 kg of soil would generally only give about an 11 month supply of CO2.


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## Chumley (Mar 15, 2011)

Water sprite should change its form if you leave it floating. Check out this video  Im trying this in my little Walstad tank rite now. Has it grown out for you like in that video yet ?


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

Thanks for your help qwe123 

Chumley
Yes to a small degree I have emergent growth in my 20G. Its sticking out about 3/4 at this point, but I dont expect it to get much higher as I have a glass top


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## jamesbarr (Feb 24, 2013)

Its been a while since I have updated my walstad. Today is day 51. Things have changed a lot since I get this one going


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## atc84 (May 18, 2013)

Hows your tank doing? It would be awesome to see an update


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