# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Cloudy Tank



## AliceH (Nov 21, 2004)

I am running what I call my Diana Tank. For the first six months it was absolutely the most stable of my 3 tanks. Even now the water params remain stable but it is constantly cloudy and has been for several months. The only time the cloudiness cleared was when I had to medicate it with Maracyn, Maracyn 2 and Maroxy for an angel with fin rot. Since i stopped the medication, used carbon and water changes to remove residues, the cloudiness has returned.
The pH drops over the course of a week from 7.0 to 6.4. My tap pH runs between 7.0 and 7.2. Using floss does not seem to help.
My tapwater source is groundwater wells off a municipal system which uses Chloramine. The new water treatment facility went on line a year ago. The GH jumps between 5 and 11 and the KH is usually 2-3 out of the tap. I believe the GH jump is probably iron and manganese released into the water by the very acid rain we receive. There is also be a relatively high sodium content. High enough that the State is willing to help pay for road improvements and an additional treatment facility. When Ammonia out of the tap is readable I hold off water changes. I have 3 planted tanks. All have 2+ WPG or better. I do not use CO2. I had to pull an Alternanthera Reineckii Purple because it seemed to be causing the pH to crash in all 3 tanks. If anything, pulling it seems to have increased the cloudiness in the Diana tank. What can I add to the tank to help me? Obviously my water is very soft. The tank in question currently houses 5 pearl danios, a pair of bolivian rams and one angel. It is 29 gallons and was planted according to Diana's specs. Right now it has a sword which truthfully is not growing very quickly. It has anubias and one hygro difformis as well as 2 apongetons. and two lilies from Wally world. Oh, and a couple of Vals that look like very long sort of wide blade grass and are very pretty.
How can I fix this? 
All help greatly appreciated.
Alice


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

All the antibiotics and then the mention of high sodium and acid rain have confused me. Poor plant growth could be due to any one of these. 

I can't see that any plant species (the Alternanthera) would have caused a pH decline. A good growing plant may raise the pH (via photosynthesis and removal of CO2), but it will never cause a pH decrease. Removing a good growing plant was not a good idea. Antibiotics in killing all the bacteria in the tank could have caused the pH crash not the plant.

The cloudiness could be due to bacterial growth or algae that's returned after the antibiotic treatment and removing the Alternanthera. If its algae, then it is no surprise that plants, which have to compete with algae, aren't doing well.

Your water may need more calcium and magnesium, which alone determine GH. Iron and manganese have no relationship to GH. Please read pages 112-115 in my book on the importance of calcium on plant survival and growth.

If your tapwater has high sodium and low calcium (typical of acid rain water), then I can see why your plants aren't doing well. However, I think your tank's problems may have started with the antibiotic treatment and removal of Alternanthera.


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## imported_ashappar (Jan 21, 2005)

I'd say diana hit it pretty well by saying the cloudy water is a result of the medication. I've seen medicated tanks develop bacterial blooms afterwards several times. I'm talking about white milky cloudiness and not the pea soup look of green water. 

sounds like your water is as terrible as mine was. I bought an R/O unit and even though people say you dont need one for a planted tank, I'm really glad I have it.


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## AliceH (Nov 21, 2004)

Actually I didn't remove the suspect plant until after the cloudiness and concurrent pH drop had been in action for two months. pH is now relatively stable but cloudiness remains a problem.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Once an ecosystem has been hit with chemicals or blown away by antibiotics, it may take many months to recover.

Treating planted tanks with antibiotics is risky. I've also found that removing a good-growing plant can change everything._everything_


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## AliceH (Nov 21, 2004)

Thanks Diana,
Actually when I finally decided the plant was my culprit and chose to remove it I had been dealing with the cloudiness for some time. When I removed the plant I learned it was no longer rooted in the Substrate. It just came right out totally detached from the substrate. When I medicated with Maracyn and Maracyn 2 the cloudinessd increased so I agree with what you are saying. However, when I added Maroxy the tank became crystal clear in a matter of two days. After the 5 day treatment was over I did a water change, added carbon for 48 hours to remove any residue and the cloudiness returned. Since I removed the Alnethera the pH drops have stopped but the cloudiness remains. According to Kasselman the plant I removed can cause the pH drops I experienced unless KH is supplemented. Since I'm not good a water chemistry person(any chemistry or Math for that matter) I have hesitated to move toward supplementation.
Alice


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## Endlersmom (Feb 29, 2004)

Hello Alice,

I never heard of Alternanthera Reineckii Purple or any other plant effecting the pH, something new for me to look into, thanks for the info.

I do not know if this will help in your case or not but I will throw it out anyways. For many years, every April or so, my tank water would get cloudy. I contributed it to bacteria in the tap water. I prevented it by not ding a large water change after spring thaw/large rain. This actually lead me to Diana's book which I love. 

You mentioned that your tap water has chloroamines added. You also said that you do not do a water change if there is detecable ammonia in the tap water. Why would you not do a water change? I hope you add a chlorine neutralizer/water conditioner when you add tap water to your tank. Chloroamines does not dissipate as quickly as chlorine. Chlorine will gas off/dissipate in standing water within 24 hours or so. Chloroamines which is much more toxic to fish (damages their gills, I think) will stick around for at least 5 days. I doubt this is your problem since you did not mention a problem with your fish.

You should check the pH of your tap water, after you let the water stand in a cup over night. 

If you do not want to worry about chemicals and math AND the addition of chemicals at every water change; you may like to add some argonite/marble chips/crushed coral to your filter, this will slowly increase your pH, GH and KH over time. 

I have yet to figure out how to increase KH without increasing GH or Na. My tap water runs at KH 1 or less right now, which is a constant worry for a pH crash.

Fast growing plants soak up nutriants fast.
I love the plant called Anacharis/Egeria densa/Elodea. You can stick it in the substrate or let it float.
You said you have hydro difformis, another fast grower, cut off some leaves, let them sprout some roots and replant. No cost involved. If you like your hydro difformis I would not recommend you add any hornwort. The two did not go well together in my tank.

Whenever you remove any plants or algae for that matter, be prepared for a problem. I once removed a lot (almost half) of plants at one time in a very stable well planted , (family wanted to see more of the fish). This sent the tank into a mess algea (including bluegreen algea) for a very long time. 

Meds change the bacteria content so you should be extra cautious afterwords until your tank seems to get back to normal.


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## AliceH (Nov 21, 2004)

Hi Endlersmom,
Thanks for your response. 
The plant I removed was sold to me as a hygro but in fact turned out to be an alternanthera reineckii and the one species of that plant that if placed in a tank with slower growing plants that do not generate enough CO2 will grab its carbon from the water causing a KH drop. I actually have 3 planted tanks and the plant turned out to be the culprit in all 3. To confirm that it was the problem I removed it from one tank at a time over a 3 week period and kept monitoring the ph of all tanks. The plant is in Kasselmann's Aquarium Plants.
My water is also very skizzy. I've done all the tests in the world including the stand overnight one. The problem is that it's from a municipal water system with groundwater wells and like you I have to test pH everytime I do a water chgange. I have learned never to do them after periods of haavy rain. Chloramines get pumped up during those times. Yes I do use a water conditioner.
No sick fish now knock on wood.
Today I added more plants to the tank to see if that would help. Filter floss doesn't clear whatever this is but the water I changed out looked very brown, almost like tea today. The floss I had added on the other hand was almost as white as the day I put it in the tank. So-no more floss. I'm very puzzled by all this.
Finally, I have never had a problem with either Maracyn or Maroxy interfering with my biofilter. I don't like using meds in my planted tanks but this time it seemed the most appropriate way to go and in fact, the Maroxy actually seemed to clear the cloudiness. That was just serendipity.
Alice


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## Erin (Feb 18, 2005)

Something I found at Wal-Mart that helps clear up "cruddy", hazy, particulate filled water are the do it yourself seat cushions in the craft department. The rule of thumb I use on buying them is to make sure you can blow through it. If not, it's too fine. They do clog pretty frequently, but I have crystal clear water in all 4 of my naturally planted tanks.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Clear tea colored water is from dissolved humic acids. Activated carbon will remove these compounds from the water.

There's probably nothing wrong with your filter floss. Filter floss, depending on how fine it is, filters out particles. It cannot filter out _dissolved_ compounds like humic acids.

The other purpose of filter floss is to provide homes for nitrifying and other bacteria. Usually, it takes a few weeks for the bacteria to colonize the filter.


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## AliceH (Nov 21, 2004)

Thank you Diana. I used the floss only to see if it was a particulate situation. I removed it after it made no difference because I use an old HOB filter to simply keep the water circulating. I don't use any filter media in this tank.
It seems to be slightly clearer today. I did replace one fluorescent tube that was over a year old. Would the fact that this tank gets more light from the windows in the winter than the summer (due to very old, large deciduous shade trees)cause this kind of cloudiness? It really looks like the air on a slightly foggy day. Just a fine white haziness.
Alice


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

If your tank has a slight haze, then its either bacteria or algae. Filter floss is not fine enough to filter out algae or bacteria cells. They will go right through the filter floss...as you have seen.

If the haze comes during the winter when your tank gets more light, then it is probably algae.

If it comes during the summer when you tank gets less light, then it could be bacteria or algae.

Whatever... try adding activated carbon to your filter or adding emergent/floating plants. However, the main thing will be to get your plants growing well.


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## AliceH (Nov 21, 2004)

Thanks very much Diana. Carbon doesn't remove the haze but Maroxy did so I must assume it's a bacterial bloom of some sort. I did add a bunch of stem plants and some floating plants a few days ago. It's marginally better now but still hazy. That would explain why the addition of Maroxy cleared things up temporarily. Since the fish seem to be fine I'll not add any meds. I'll see if I can increase the lighting for the time being.
Alice


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## AliceH (Nov 21, 2004)

Thanks for so much help. I originally set this tank up in October of 2004. I now have it heavily planted and I think I have found an answer? Let me know what you think?
The tank was my most stable and the most beautiful of all my tanks until May of this year when the cloudiness set in. That was when my ancient and beautiful Oaks (3) and Beech tree went into full leaf. During the winter this tank gets full sun for 1.5 hours in the AM and 1.5 hours in the PM through both sides. The back of the tank faces the wall between two south facing windows. I live in Massachusetts just 20 minutes south of Boston less than 20 minutes from the ocean. Once the trees leaf out? The south facing widows get total shade. That's when my log tells me the trouble with the cloudiness began. I think the problem is the lack of UV light. I've decided to replace the cool white bulb with a UV light strip. I made this decision because natural daylight contains much more UV than the combination of bulbs I have which work beautifully in the winter when the tank gets a total of 3 hours of direct sun a day through untinted glass. Carbon and floss do not help with the cloudiness and increasing the number of plants has helped marginally. So I think this is my solution. I did take the tank backing off to increase light but it did not totally clear the cloudiness (tho it diminished it a bit). What do you think? I'm awaiting arrival of the UV bulb.
Alice


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

UV light as in a UV sterilizing filter will kill bacteria and/ or algae in the water. Thus, it will kill the cloudiness. This would probably solve your problem. I would look into a UV sterilizing filter.

However, you are talking about replacing a cool-white bulb with a UV light as _plant lighting_. This is not a good move. Plants probably won't be able to use this light very well for their photosynthesis. UV bulbs are designed for marine aquarium to give deepwater coral the shorter wavelengths (blue and UV light) that they require. They are not optimal for freshwater plants.


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## AliceH (Nov 21, 2004)

Thanks very much Diana. I will save the bulb for my some-day reef tank. I'll look into the sterilizer unit. I suspect I will need it only during the 6 months of the year when the trees are fully leafed. The tank is fine when it gets its weekly allotment of sunlight.
Alice


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