# Substrate bacteria for planted tanks



## Andi (Feb 6, 2008)

Has anyone heard about an additive for planted tank substrates of dormant microorganisms? I can see the potential for something like this being useful. I could also see this as being a sales gimmick as well.

Here's an ad for the product.
http://www.adgshop.com/Bacter_100_p/104-111.htm


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## Quetzalcoatl (Feb 13, 2009)

I've personally used Bacter and Penac W with great results. It is difficult to quantify the success though. I cannot comment on the biology behind it, so just my 2c.


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## Andi (Feb 6, 2008)

You say you had great results, but what great results were they and are those results for sure because of the products?


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## Quetzalcoatl (Feb 13, 2009)

Great result as in faster cycling and more stable (less ammonia spike, less algae problems) start up. No I am not 100% sure it is because of the product, as there are millions of variables. This is why I said it is difficult to quantify the success. I have not ran any lab experiment of keeping a constant environment with only variable being whether or not I used this product.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Personally I think its more of a gimmick. 

Plants absorb nitrates and ammonia so there is no true nitrogen cycle in planted tanks. You can add the stuff but there won't be anything for it to eat if the bacteria is even alive in the bottle at all. Furthermore, how does the company know exactly what bacteria should be there? There are millions of freshwater bodies out there with different bacterial compositions, for that matter the same body of water has a different composition at different times of the year. 

Again, just my 2 cents since I have not tested it with any kind of scientific rigor.


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## Quetzalcoatl (Feb 13, 2009)

Zapins has a valid point. Like I wrote on my first post, I have no scientific backing to whether these stuff really work or not. My opinion is purely based on my experience and what I personally heard from others in the hobby. YMMV.


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## Andi (Feb 6, 2008)

I was thinking there may be a possibility of it being composed of organisms that help fix nitrogen for the plants in the same manner as the innoculent I add to my legumes in the garden.


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## DeeJayA1 (Oct 7, 2011)

I've used the ada bacter ball and buried a few pieces in the substrate upon start up. Consider I didn't do any water changes besides topping off and cycle time was about the same... and shrimp love eating it too.


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## Yo-han (Oct 15, 2010)

Zapins said:


> Personally I think its more of a gimmick.
> 
> Plants absorb nitrates and ammonia so there is no true nitrogen cycle in planted tanks. You can add the stuff but there won't be anything for it to eat if the bacteria is even alive in the bottle at all. Furthermore, how does the company know exactly what bacteria should be there? There are millions of freshwater bodies out there with different bacterial compositions, for that matter the same body of water has a different composition at different times of the year.
> 
> Again, just my 2 cents since I have not tested it with any kind of scientific rigor.


Very hard to prove but getting the right bacteria is not that hard, just isolate them from running filters or river sand or anything. You can bottle them but most if not all will die indeed. But at the same time bacteria are known to go dormant for thousand of years till the environment suits then again. Not sure if all bacteria can. It sure won't hurt your tank, and some people swear to bacteria and add them each month, others never.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Good question! 
Anything except the nitrogen cycle microorganisms.

There may be sales gimmicks, or there may be something to it. 
In nature there are indeed many many species of microorganisms living in lakes, streams and rivers, in the mud and sand. 
Many of these get started in an aquarium from some import somewhere along the line. 
For example, I buy pond plants from a local store who buys them from a grower that sells them throughout the state. Who knows what organisms are in the soil! Then those organisms end up in my system (23 active tanks and 2 ponds). 
I also buy plants (aquatic and marginals) from the nurseries. Same comment. 
My outdoor pond has been running for many years, with frogs, racoons, birds and other visitors. They have brought in organisms from the wild stream near my house.
I initially filled this pond using unfiltered water that is shipped to farmers via open canals throughout the state. 
Then I bring some of those plants in... 
I share plants with the local plant club, so there is another source of aquatic microorganisms.

So... do i need to supplement with a bottled product when I set up a new tank? I do not do so, and do not think it is necessary.

Is it necessary for an aquarium that does not have all the possible exposures that mine have? Maybe. Maybe not. The spores of these organisms drift around in the air, and stick to surfaces. When you take your dog for a walk to the lake, then the damp dog comes home she is bringing organisms with her that can land in the tank. When you buy plants and fish from anyone, you are extending the possible sources of these organisms.

Are those bottled products good? Proper species of organisms to help decompose waste, alive, capable of living in warm aquariums? I dunno. I would go in the direction of a reputable company, rather than one that uses hype to advertize their products. I would do some outside research about which species of bacteria etc. would be good additions, and see which products list those organisms. 
_____________________________________________________________

Related issue.

Theory:
If...
... the fish and tank are infested with a 'good' bacteria then when a 'bad' (disease causing bacteria) tries to get a foothold in the fish it is overwhelmed by the shear numbers of 'good' bacteria, and the 'bad' bacteria cannot get a good hold. 
So...
... seed the tank with 'good' bacteria when it is first set up so these beneficial organisms get going before the disease organisms even enter the tank.

Here are two examples:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4262
http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/probiotic-bacteria

For more info use the term 'Probiotics' in the search.

I have used both those products. 
Do they work? I have NO idea. Nice theory, so lets give the fish every chance! 
(Then the greenhouse got too cold. No bacteria is going to save the fish, then :-( )

As far as I know there are no organisms that live in symbiosis with aquatic plants and fix nitrogen the way that legumes and their symbiots do on land.


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