# plumbing ~210 gal tank



## Kurt Reinhart (Mar 4, 2003)

Hi,

I've got a build forum going but thought many of you wouldn't see it so I'm double posting the plumbing section. The build is here http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...-210g-inwall-epoxy-plywood-tank-fishroom.html

Here is a skematic of the plumbing that I'm currently envisioning. I'm not crazy about the resolution of the picture. If you want to see another then try this link (http://www.iecology.net/aquarium_bui... design.jpg).

I got the idea of the 10 gal prefilter from Robert Michelson's reef tank (http://avdil.gtri.gatech.edu/RCM/RCM...inSystem.html). This may be complete overkill for a planted freshwater tank. What do you think? Suggestions would be appreciated.

Also, I plan to use a pump rated to 1500 gph to return water to the tank from the sump. However, with the plumbing it will likely only push around 950gph. Here is a head loss calculator to see how much you're likely getting out of your pumps (http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php). Its pretty enlightening.


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## taekwondodo (Dec 14, 2005)

I've never found a check-valve I could count on...

I _highly _recommended that your sump be able to take the full volume of everything above where the inputs into the tank are when it fails (and it will).


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

I've got 2, 2" brass check valves on my Koi pond to stop the water back-flowing from the large return pipe. They have worked flawlessly for me as they are only pumping clean water. They do create some back-pressure, which is why they are 2" in 1.5" pipework. Stop my pond filter flowing back into the pond with half the waste everytime I clean it!
BUT the above post is good advice just in case something goes wrong in any event!

As you're going to all that effort with the pre-filters can I suggest something that may be worth you looking at. One idea I've always said I'd try when I finally build a large tank is to put a small vortex filter as the first stage. The one on my pond collects SO much stuff it's incredible, most of it very fine debris too. It's sloped base would collect all the dirt in the end where it could go off to waste without you really doing any cleaning! It would simply replace your pre-filter tank in your diagram.


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## Kurt Reinhart (Mar 4, 2003)

I've been using a clear PVC check valve. It is nice because you can visually see that it is working. But I can certainly appreciate the concern that you've expressed. Using an oversized valve is a good idea. Although it probably isn't easy to see in my diagram, I have an emergency overflow in the main sump that should hopefully keep it from overflowing during a re-fill or back flow scenario. It will be plumbed to drain into the sewer line. This overflow won't keep the tank from draining really low but will hopefully keep my house from flooding.

The vortex filter sounds interesting. I hadn't heard of one before but googled them and think that I have the idea of what you're talking about.

I think that the prefilter has some of the functional qualities of the vortex filter with the maze the water flows. I think the previous link was broken to Robert's site (try googling "Robert Michelson's detritus filter") to see it in action. I guess I'm wondering how much waste will I actually have to catch. I liked the prefilter idea partly because it will allow me to look for fish and critters that go down the drain (unless they swim down the 1" bulkheads). Previously, I used an overflow with a DIY wet/dry filter that had a prefilter (filter mesh stuff) before the water went through the bioballs and down to the sump. Some fish made it through but others became trapped. Before, most of the crud in the mesh prefilter was bacteria (probably biofilms). Even without the prefilter, the sump will have two mitten/bag filters catching filtering stuff before water makes it into the sump.


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## wiste (Feb 10, 2006)

> I've never found a check-valve I could count on...


I agree with this conclusion. A check valve can generally not be counted on in a power failure condition. Even a small amount of debris will allow some back leakage for even the best check valve. A method to ensure that a power failure failure will not result in an uncontrolled overflow of the sump and will not completely drain the tank is essential. 
My approach is to have the bulkhead return to be no higher than the capacity of the excess capacity of the sump. A controlled overflow will work as long as there is enough water in the tank for the inhabitants if the check valve failed.
Good luck, your project is an interesting read.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

I must admit that I'm thinking about using this on a very big tank or in a centralised filter in a fish house with a constant overflow to waste from the vortex - the idea being that any debris will settle out in the vortex and constantly be removed by the constant overflow. Otherwise it may be overkill unless you have lots of messy fish.


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## wiste (Feb 10, 2006)

> the idea being that any debris will settle out in the vortex and constantly be removed by the constant overflow.


It is very difficult to prevent algae, calcium deposits and snails from preventing some leakage from a check valve. That being said, a vortex intake filter seems like a good idea. I am back flushing my 240g setup every couple of weeks due to plant debris to ensure adequate flow.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

wiste said:


> It is very difficult to prevent algae, calcium deposits and snails from preventing some leakage from a check valve. That being said, a vortex intake filter seems like a good idea. I am back flushing my 240g setup every couple of weeks due to plant debris to ensure adequate flow.


My idea wouldn't actually use a check valve in the filter at all and the only reason I can see that Kurt needs one is that some of his inlets are in the base of his tank. Personally I would have those inlets going into the tank near the top with small syphon-break holes drilled in the tubing below water level and then going down to the base inside the tank as you wouldn't need check valves then. I wouldn't want to rely on the check valves completely either!

For the filter I am thinking of there would be a standpipe overflow in the vortex. That would then go straight to waste. As new water was dribbled in from the RO unit the water level in the vortex would rise sending the water away over the overflow.

BTW after the vortex I'd use another koi filter media. I'd use fluidised K1 that is a floating plastic media that you aerate very heavily so it moves constantly and never needs cleaning. It was originally developed for sewage processing and after seeing a koi farm over here using it completely I'm changing my koi filter over to it next summer.


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## Kurt Reinhart (Mar 4, 2003)

So now I'm starting to think about eliminating the intake entry point near the bottom of the tank to prevent a complete drain. Instead, I'm thinking of having 1 or 2 entry points placed relatively high in the tank to guard against back flow problems if the checkvalve is leaking. As Ed pointed out, this will help eliminate backflow problems, emptying the tank, and sump flooding. 

Now I'm wondering how to maintain flow in the tank and avoid dead spots. Focusing the main pump (sump to tank) flow to the upper right of the tank will probably not cut it. Powerheads are an option but difficult to conceal--so not really an option for me. A Tunze Turbelle Stream Pump 6060 could be an option forcing current at a slight upward angle and concealed in rocks. A closed loop system with some sort of prefilters and inline pump is a possibility. Also, I'm already thinking of creating a rockscape. This could conceal a pump with a prefilter (sponge?) positioned in the lower left that could pump water to the right (inlet side) to maintain flow from right to left. The water could be pumped via PVC hidden in the substrate with loclines emerging and aiming water to the left.

I'm not sure how snails, etc. will affect either the closed loop or other options though.


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## Kurt Reinhart (Mar 4, 2003)

Here is an updated plan. Overall, it is a simplier design. Heaters will go in the sump. The CO2 will be added directly to the pump. It still has a checkvalve but the inlet bulkhead is placed much higher in the tank. Eventually, I'll come up with some circulation system (possibly closed loop mostly hidden beneath the substrate).


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