# Internal Filter



## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

If one were to have an aquarium that was 'closed' with a glass top with the water up to the very top, and a power filter with just a sponge filter on it to provide circulation; 

Would this provide enough biological and or chemical filtration? 

Would there be enough O2 in the water if you did this with DIY CO2 running? 
With the CO2 bubbles resting underneath the glass top to dissolve in the water? 

Has anyone had success with an internal filter like this in a tank?


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## fantasticaqua (Jun 20, 2006)

Most internal filters like the whisper series are made to run with the top above the high water level to facilitate aeration. Most diffusion takes place at the surface of the water so you bwant to be careful. Some people extend a canopy downward to give the impression that the tank is full.....


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Agreed. You would want to keep at least a half inch gap of air from the surface of the water for oxygen exchange. 
However if it were to work, I imagine any CO2 bubbles resting at the top will probably pop or slide to an edge where they can be released. If it does however stay wedged between the glass top and water, in theory it would slowly diffuse and dissolve. The powerhead sponge would give you biological filtration and mechanical filtration, but not so much of a chemical filtration (carbon filtration, ammonia, etc.). 

I see you're trying to create a large sized CO2 Bell in essence with your tank. It's probably much easier to create a smaller version inside the tank with an upside down mug. Plus, cleaning the glass, and having light penetrate the glass top and water would be more difficult with this "tank bell".


-John N.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

I currently have a Penguin Mini BIO-Wheel which aerates my water very well with the BIO-Wheel. I currently counter act this with creating the CO2 Bell effect with the glass top. I also have my filter on a timer to be on all the time except during the time of day that I expect the plants to be pearling at their 'peak' which is when the sunshine is coming through the window and the light fixture is set to turn on. It has been working well so far.

I of course need to do some more regular maintenance on my Hagen Ladder. No such thing as low maintenance in this hobby. Although dosing is quick and easy now (thank you EI - dry dosing!).



> The powerhead sponge would give you biological filtration and mechanical filtration, but not so much of a chemical filtration (carbon filtration, ammonia, etc.).


 I was contemplating the next tank that I build. I realize that with a planted tank (heavily for the most part); for all practical purposes I believe I basically only need circulation for heat distribution, CO2 distribution, etc.

Of course having a PowerHead Sponge collect stray plant trimmings or whatever would collect in the tank sounds convenient. I believe Java Fern does best with good water circulation.

If this would work out, I really would like to build my next 10 Gallon with as little 'stuff' hanging on the outside as possible. I pretty much would like for most if it to be self contained. I figure heater and 'circulation' filter inside, glass top and whatever light fixture I choose next to window for natural sunlight to supplement (Thank you Diana Walstad). I want to be able to have a one piece glass top cut at the glass shop with as little a hole in one corner for the one or 2 wires coming out for the heater and filter.

But I am open to suggestions on different filters. I know what I have used in the past, and for the most part they have all worked fine. I am just not real sure the differences or consequences of using different filters when I am looking in the local fish stores.

Power Sponge filters look so simple and so neat. Take out sponge, rinse under water in sink, squish excess 'stuff' out of sponge, replace. And no shrimp or fry gets sucked up into filter. And the fish can eat the food that get sucked onto the side of the sponge.

What do you ladies and gentlemen think of all the filter options out there?

What are your favorites? And do you think the Power Sponge filter would accomplish what I am aiming for?

Thank you for your feedback. :smile:


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I use a sponge on a powerhead as the only filtration in my 45 gallon tank. So far, about two months now, no problems that seem related to the filter. I started doing this when I had a 29 gallon tank, again with no problems. I now remove the sponge and rinse it off about every two weeks - it is pretty well loaded at that time. The closest thing to a problem is that if I have any BBA the BBA really likes growing on the sponge. But, ideally I shouldn't have any BBA.


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## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

I have started using the Fluval 1 plus internal filter, it is an enclosed sponge filter that has two slotted inlets on opposite sides, I mount them horizontally close to the surface so I get some skimming action from the top inlet, this keeps the surface scum at bay. also when you pull it out to clean, the sponge is enclosed and it is easier to get out of the tank without it dumping debris on the way out.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Those both sound great!

From what I found on the web, I like the look of the Fluval 1. 
What size tank do you use that on?

Hagen Fluval 1 Plus Internal Filter, 50 GPH - Marine Depot - Marine and Reef Aquarium Super Store

Thank you for your feedback.

Any other members will similar or different experiences?

I am REALLY starting to like the idea of these.

Nothing beats simple.


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## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

Jimbo205 said:


> Do you guys have a thread with a photo of what these look like on your tanks? That would be cool.


I'll take a pic and send it to you.


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## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

Here is the Fluval 1 plus mounted horizontally.


















They're a nice small clean package and it moves enough water for my needs. I bought an aquaclear 660 that came with the sponge filter first but it moved way to much water. the fish were using leaves off or the Ludwigia for kayaks to run the white water.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Great shots! That looks nice! hoto:

I am completely sold on the looks. 

Now if I have a glass lid (one piece) on my 10 Gallon tank and fill the water up to the lid, the entire top becomes a CO2 Bell which also may reduce the reflection between the glass and the water surface so more light actually enters the water, but that is a side benefit. 

My question is on O2. If I use a Fluval 1 instead of a Penguin MINI BIO-Wheel, will there still be enough O2 in the tank for the fish? 

Part of me says yes, because while the sunlight comes from the window into the side of the tank and later the lights are on; the plants should pearl like crazy (I have my current filter on a timer to shut off at this time) and therefore produce plenty of O2.

What about at night time? Would the Fluval 1 somehow still maintain enough O2 in the water while the Hagen CO2 ladder is running? 

Does that question make sense? 

I just never want to worry about my fish not having enough O2 overnight. 

What do you ladies and gentlemen think? 

(Bpimm with photos like those two, your tanks must be AMAZING.) hoto:


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## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

I don't think you should have the water clear up to the glass top, you need some room for the gas exchange to happen, just having 1/2" air space with a solid glass top should cut down on the C02 loss. your tank will have it's own atmosphere where the C02 level will be higher than normal atmospheric levels thus decreasing the outgassing amount. 

I don't know what the effect of having the waterlevel touching the glass will do to the oxygen level this could be an interesting experiment but you would need to stay with the tank to monitor the levels through the night incase you do loose the oxygen. 

You could also just throw in some dirt covered with gravel and then you don't need the C02 at all.    I just had to throw that in.

I'll back up what Onemindseye said, if you try an El Natural and it dosen't work I'll send whatever I can to help you to try again. Between us we shoould be able to remotely set up a tank for you.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

I enjoyed re-reading Diana Walstad's book - Ecology of the Planted Aquarium for several hours. I also enjoyed page 184 on submerged powerheads. And then I got to spend 2 hours in the latest PetsMart to open up nearby my workplace during the week. I was checking out all the different filters. Wow!!
Thank goodness I have this place to help me sort through them all.

bpimm, I am looking forward to setting up my first complete El Naturale Naturally Planted Tank sometime in the future. I have the 10 Gallon Tank, the Schultz's Cactus Soil, the heater being used in a current experiment and a good source of SoilMaster Select Red or Schultz' Aquatic Soil (don't really like the color) and of course Dwarf Sagittaria, Rotala and gorgeous Java Fern in my current 10 Gallon Tank just ready to explode out of the tank. I would like to use some of my Seachem Onyx in the new tank but realize the mixture with the Blue and Pink previous Aquarium Gravel would not look good. My water is hard so that should not be an issue. What is dolomite? Some of the hardest stuff is figuring out where you people get your supplies. I need to find some time and find a hardware store and get to know the staff.

I just want to make sure this work out well. After all, this will be in my son's room and there are things I am still learning about Natural Tanks....



> I'll back up what Onemindseye said, if you try an El Natural and it dosen't work I'll send whatever I can to help you to try again. Between us we shoould be able to remotely set up a tank for you.


 Thank you. That really is a very nice offer. I may take you guys up on that depending on what happens. :happy:

Do either of you use light fixtures from ahsupply.com ? Compact Fluorescent Lighting Kits? Or just window light? Or compact fluorescent daylight bulbs?


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