# A deficiency on Plants



## cvahoo (Oct 23, 2006)

hi there,

Some time ago I started having problems with my plants. It's probably a deficiency of some kind of element but I'm unable to specify which one is missing.

Some technical stuff:
Tank 60x30x30 - 54 liters (14 gallons), 3x18 W philips 965 , ph 6,6-6,8 NO3 - 5-10 PO4 - I'm not it measuring right now Fe - 0,25-0,5, CO2, kh - 5, gh-6 temperature - 22-24 C
Animals- about 30 - mostly young - Poecilia Reticulata, 30-40 shrimps

About two weeks ago (I was dosing TMG (5-6/week), 25 :1: 25 NPK fertilizer and applying Tetra crypto), the problem started to appear. Increasing the dosage of TMG almost eliminated the problem.
Right now I'm dosing ADA Green Brighty Step 3 and the problem has intensified - almost all leaves of eusteralis stellata are affected.

As you can see on the picture, the leaf started losing its color and it's transparent.
It's starting from the young leaves but not from the youngest as they are actually growing.
The plants grow a little bit slower.
The aquarium is 2 years old.

Any ideas ?


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

What exactly is the NPK fert you're using and how much of it are you dosing?


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Yea, it's weird, I have the same problem as in the first pic. My italian vals are starting to look like that. I'm not threadjacking, so I'll follow this one and see if I can't fix my problem first before posting another thread. =)


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## cvahoo (Oct 23, 2006)

The fertilizer was made by a person who does it on a large scale.
The average dosing is 2ml/day and 6-8 ml once per week, when I change 50% 
of water. I dose macro-fert to get the NO3 on 5-10 level.
4 ml of fertilizer for my tank increases level of NO3 by 3-3,5, PO4 by 0,12 
and K by 3 (according to information written by the manufacturer).


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

cvahoo said:


> I dose macro-fert to get the NO3 on 5-10 level.
> 4 ml of fertilizer for my tank increases level of NO3 by 3-3,5, PO4 by 0,12
> and K by 3 (according to information written by the manufacturer).


It seems you are dosing by test kit results...did you calibrate the kits to make sure they are accurate? If not, either calibrate them with a known solution or try not to use them for a week or two and simply increase the amount of the fertilizer you are dosing.

If the leaves started to loose color my first guess would be iron or nitrate shortage. You say the problem started to disappear when you increased the TMG. If this is so it may be a shortage of iron so why not increase it the TMG a bit more?

I may be incorrect on this since I am not familiar with ADA ferts but I believe the "Brighty" ferts are mainly potassium and micros. Are you only using the Bright Step 3 right now? If so, you are not supplying any NO3 or PO4 for the tank and this could be compunding your issues with the P. stellatus.

I have become confused as to what you are actually dosing right now  Are you using only the Brighty Step 3 or are you using everything in combination?


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## cvahoo (Oct 23, 2006)

I was checking the level of NO3 by two tests so I think that results are reliable.
The leaves don't loose thier color gradually, they just become transparent.

I've expierenced that problem a few months ago but only sporadically.

As I said, the increasing dosage of TMG almost solved the problem but because of more TMG, rotala wallichii had algae (short thread) - probably to much iron.

I was thinking that it might have been a problem with potassium so throughout the last week I was additionally dosing K2SO4 (2ppm daily). There were no positive effects  and I may even say that now the deficiency is more visible.

From this week I started to dose KH2PO4 with K2SO4 (1:20 - 0,2 PO4 and 2 K daily) to eleminate possibility that it might be a problem with phosphorus. After a day of dosing I observed green coating on the glass with means that phosphorus was on the right level and I was no need to extra dose.

So lets make everything clear  Right now I dose ADA step 3 and NPK fert, nothing more.

Newest picture of P. stellatus.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

I understand your dosing now...you are doisng with a NPK mixture and adding additional K and traces from the Brighty step 3. It seems as though you are running your tank on the "edge" so to speak trying to maintain very low fertilizer levels. This may explain why you have had these similar deficiencies "sporadically". 

I'm still leaning to a NO3 deficiency. If you increased PO4 dosing recently, your tank may be using more NO3 than it was before. I have had this problem in the past when trying to up the PO4 levels to combat Green Spot algae. It should be quite easy to rule out a NO3 deficiency by dosing an extra 2-3 ppm of KNO3 per dose for the next week or two. 

Don't take offense at my test kit remarks but in my opinion, most of them are highly inaccurate. I think even the Lamotte KNO3 kit is only acurate to =/- 4ppm. When keeping low levels like you are (a NO3 range of 5-10) your results with your kits could only be 1ppm at the lowest due to inaccuracies in the kit itself.


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## cvahoo (Oct 23, 2006)

I doubt if it's NO3 deficiency because of few reasons:

1.The amount of NPK I dose is almost constant for 7-8 months, so I don't understand why suddenly it could be not enough.

2.I've got a lot of fishes and shrimps for a so small aquarium, and they also supply nitrates.

3. The tests could be inacurate and thats way I try to keep the level NO3 on 10, besides I use this test a long time and if the results wolud be so unreliable I would have this problems a long time ago. (The deficiencies I have earlier was really sporadically and not on that scale, almost imperceptible)

Thanks for answering, I'm looking forward for next ideas.

epicfish - you have similar problem, maybe say something about your tank - it could help


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## Avalon (Mar 7, 2005)

I'll have to say you've got a NO3 deficiency. P. stellatus are nitrogen hogs; the larger they get, the more they consume. I've got a tank full, and they eat up 6 ppm of NO3 per day. By looking at the length of the leaves, I can tell you've been very consistent in your dosing, which is very good. I think what's happening is that overall tank growth is beginning to outpace the ferts (particularly NO3) you're providing. As plant mass increases, so must the ferts.

I will testify that TMG doesn't cause algae, nor does iron. In your ventures with PO4, you noticed green dust algae. This is a common occurrence when you have too much PO4, but gda is easily wiped off and killed via a high overall plant uptake rate, and lowering the PO4 levels a bit. Anyway, from your tests, the results tell me you have plenty of PO4. There's only so many ways to point a finger, and right now, it's at NO3. Up the dosing, give it about 2-3 weeks, and see what happens. Careful, your PO4 usage may increase a little.


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