# [Wet Thumb Forum]-New 75gal setup



## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

I finally started to set up this 75gal tank. Its been six months of saving and planning. Just when I thought I would start the set up with out the lighting, I found out my tank had a leak in it. Bummer! But now with a new tank I am ready to get started.

This is about two hours after adding water. I really like this Eco-Complete. I added 8 bags but I could have just used 6-7 but I like a deep substrate. I got a really good deal on it so I bought 12 bags, Looks like I might have to set up another tank, after all I have the substrate. You think my wife will buy my reasoning? LOL

The driftwood is cedar from local lakes around here. I keep them from floating by attaching large flat rocks to the bottom. I use to be a dedicated fisherman for over 18 year. I would go fishing 2-3 times a week. I love to fish sallow flats in the bend of creeks. In the lakes here the water is clear so you can see the structure on the bottom. So what I try and do with my aquascape is create the structure I use to fish, Stomps with downed trees.










There is a spot I use to like to fish late afternoons in the spring. This is a scaled down version of the spot I caught numbers of bass over the years. I plan to add a variety of ferns to the stomp and log.










The end of the log has pocket that I am thinking about planting some baby tears.










Well before I get to many plants I need to talk with Robert about some lights. I will update as the growth of this tank comes along. I like to bring a tank this size along slow. Most of the plants I add now will be break'in plants, mostly stem plants until I reach a balance.

Hawk

Trust But Verify «*»®


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

I finally started to set up this 75gal tank. Its been six months of saving and planning. Just when I thought I would start the set up with out the lighting, I found out my tank had a leak in it. Bummer! But now with a new tank I am ready to get started.

This is about two hours after adding water. I really like this Eco-Complete. I added 8 bags but I could have just used 6-7 but I like a deep substrate. I got a really good deal on it so I bought 12 bags, Looks like I might have to set up another tank, after all I have the substrate. You think my wife will buy my reasoning? LOL

The driftwood is cedar from local lakes around here. I keep them from floating by attaching large flat rocks to the bottom. I use to be a dedicated fisherman for over 18 year. I would go fishing 2-3 times a week. I love to fish sallow flats in the bend of creeks. In the lakes here the water is clear so you can see the structure on the bottom. So what I try and do with my aquascape is create the structure I use to fish, Stomps with downed trees.










There is a spot I use to like to fish late afternoons in the spring. This is a scaled down version of the spot I caught numbers of bass over the years. I plan to add a variety of ferns to the stomp and log.










The end of the log has pocket that I am thinking about planting some baby tears.










Well before I get to many plants I need to talk with Robert about some lights. I will update as the growth of this tank comes along. I like to bring a tank this size along slow. Most of the plants I add now will be break'in plants, mostly stem plants until I reach a balance.

Hawk

Trust But Verify «*»®


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## superjohnny (Jul 31, 2004)

Looks like a good start. Did you pick the substrate because it resembles the bed of the streams you fished?

Why have you stopped fishing?

---------------------------------------------
Fish are the things that live with my plants.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Nice looking peices of wood. The problem with using large peices of wood in an aquascape is that they take up so much room, leaving little else for aquascaping. They end up looking to far in the front of the tank blocking the view of the rear so you have very little depth of field.

If it were me, I would end up taking out the wood lying horizontal and leave just the wood standing up in the rear corner. But I might also try turning that peice so its diagnol, one end, (the big end) touching the rear glass. Then you are using the wood to divide the tank in sections, almost traingle in shape. You then have a clear view between the two peices of wood all the way back to the rear glass.

Robert
King admin
www.aquabotanic.com


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

Johnny -
No the creek bottom at the fishing spot is mostly sand and clay covered with silk. I picked Eco-Complete Because it is designed for plant growth, plus the fact that you don't have to rinse it was a great selling 
point. I stopped fishing because the lakes are getting so crowded now any way I had to stop. 
I was about to start shooting the A-holes on jet skies

Robert - 
I thought about that too but I am going to plant all kinds of ferns and Anubias. 
The long horizontal log with pockets too fill with substrate as planter you probably wont ever see it
in a few months. 

Hawk

Trust But Verify «*»®


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Cedar releases chemical/organic coumpounds that are poisonous to reptiles, amphibians and fish......


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## Kevin Jones (Apr 4, 2004)

pretty sure justin is right here


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Good catch Justin!

That's slipped by us for a while.....


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

I didn't know that. I have been using cedar for years and haven't had any problems. this cedar is driftwood from local lakes no telling how long they have been in water. I would guess years. Is there a test kit I could get to test my water for toxins?

Hawk

Trust But Verify «*»®


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## Kevin Jones (Apr 4, 2004)

well, I remember reading about not drinking cedar-leached water somewhere in my field handbooks... some sort of poison I'll look through my books at some point


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

Cedar and some other woods I would think be very toxic if they where fresh cut but the longer they soak the toxins would bleed out. The cedar I use have been under water for know telling how many years. The stomp came form the bottom, the lake was formed back in the late 50s. It hard to believe that its that old but I have seen cedar post that are over 20 years old. As far as what I have in my tanks they have been in for about 2 1/2 years now. I haven't had any problems with fish or plants. I would like to know if there was a trace amount of toxin thou. Now that I know I wont be using cedar any more. I will look for some hardwoods like oak or hickory.

Hawk

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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

Well Its been just over a week. I took some plants out of my grow tanks to help get a balance. I hooked up CO2 tonight and started to add ferts this past weekend after a water change. I added a school of Rummy Nose Tetras along with some Mollies to help in the cycling of the tank. I never did seen any Ammonia yet but I did have a trace on NO2 Its about gone now. I usually add an old dirty filter for cycling a tank but I wanted to see how Eco-Complete worked out. So far I really like this stuff. I could see plant grow right from the start. Most of these plants will be replaced after I get the tank to balance out and I get some better lighting.










Hawk

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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

I think its off to a great start.

I like the pices of wood and appreceiate the length. As a matter of balance you may want to move the long piece a few inches to the left in order to tie into the upright and to give you some space near the glass. You may also want to pull the uprights in to the right a little.

I'm trying to imagine the optical center. Maybe if you moved the tall stems to the left behind the tall wood? Or build up both corners with tall plants and leave the back center with shorter plants creating a concave design.

*James Hoftiezer
Hoftiezer.Net - Journals and Libraries
Rate My Tank!!

Tank Journal - Aquascape ( Latest / Archive(No Longer Active))
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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

Most of these plants will be replaced in a few months. I plan on leaving the driftwood as is but I am thinking I might use some onion plants on the left behind the stomp. I will probably leave all the Java Ferns but everything else will be moved.

Hawk

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## vijay (Aug 13, 2003)

cedar is used to make turpentine which is toxic to humans


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

vijay, 

There are different types of turpentine, but mostly it's made from pine tar, not cedar. It isn't even that toxic. It used to be used as an ingredient in cough syrup.


Roger Miller

"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

I can't believe how well this tank is coming along. There was just a little algae in the second and third week. Most of it has cleared up or just stopped growing. I am totally sold on Eco-Complete. Plants have new growth in days after planting. I still need to add more light. I have 140w now. Soon I should have 220w. I still haven't reached the level of NO3/PO4 I am looking to reach but I am close. I have some Mis-Nymphes stellata bulbs I have tried to start for all most a year now. After putting them in this tank they all sprouted in just a few days. The Rotala indica not only is growing tall fast but it has new growth from the roots, Ambulia also is growing really fast but I have never had any trouble growing it in any tank. I have never been able to grow Dwarf hair grass but in this tank its sprouting form with new growth in days for planting. I need to make some spray bar to control the water circulation. I am using two 304 Fluval. When I get a reactor 1000 hooked up to one of them that should cut down on some of the water circulation. I am using a Aqualine reactor now with a 550 powerhead. IT just doesn't work as well. I use the 1000 on my 55gal and love it. As soon as I get the light, and new reactor set up I will start replanting with plants I intend on keeping.










Hawk

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## Barfly (Nov 2, 2003)

Hmm..... would that blank spot there off center to left quality as optical centre?

seems like a bout the right proportions. James?

May the pearls be with your Riccias'.


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

I can't believe this tank is just over 3 months old. As you can see I have all ready removed some of the stem plants. I have made around $30 selling cuttings from this tank in the past few month. I would have to trim every week. I know I keep saying it but I really like Eco-Complete. Just look at the growth I have without adding any substrate tabs.










This is where I start to tweak the canvas. What I like to do with a new tank or a redo on an old tank, is plant as many plants as I have access to. Then see what grows best in the tank over time. For some reason I find as a tank gets older some plant will stop doing as well and others will finally take off. After using Eco-Complete I think this problem I have had in the past is due on me and the way I use substrate tabs. It seems like every type of plant I plant in this particular tank takes off.










First I think I need to open up the area in the circles, these areas are just to crowded. I haven't made up my mine about the lilies or the swords but there's not room for both. In the far left corner is a Aponogeton boivinianus. I hope this plant keeps growing to fill in this corner. I have had this plant over two years and this is the only time it has shown any growth since I first bought it. When I first got the plant it was spectacular! leaves over 24" long. The lilies bulbs have never grown in any other tank ether. I think its the Eco-Complete. Once I get them to start growing, I have had luck in transferring them to my 55gal with plan gravel. I do add tabs under them in that tank.

On the other side of the tank I need to remove some of the taller Sagittaria. They are hiding the Baby Tears growing out of the driftwood. I need to space out the large Swords in the back too. Some of them have to go.

Well these are my plans for this tank Any one have any suggestion?

Hawk

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[This message was edited by Hawkeye on Wed January 21 2004 at 05:40 PM.]


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## Overfloater (Apr 2, 2004)

Looks great. You have done a spectacular job with it. If I were you, I would bring one of your nicer swords to the middle as a centerpiece. Good job.

Bob

Los Dios De Verde


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

Sorry I forgot to post one of the pic. This tank needs focus. All plants grow nice in this tank. now I have to decide witch plants stay and witch plants get sold to the LFS. 

Hawk

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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Where did the wood go? Did it get swallowed up ?









Robert
King admin
www.aquabotanic.com


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

Its still there Robert. The vision I had is not the vision you seen now. After I do some major trimming and plant relocating I hope to see some of the driftwood. The Java and African ferns have taken over one end and baby tears the other end, there might not be much driftwood left to see.

Hawk

Trust But Verify «*»®


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## 5380 (Jun 16, 2005)

I thought the reasons for not using cedar and pine wood should be addressed on this thread:

Two chemicals found in the wood are responsible for lysis of epithelial cells, specifically lung cells, plicatic acid and abietic acid. Long term exposure to pine and cedar resins has been hypothesized as a occupational hazard, because chronic lung disease and asthma develops. The article below uses some freshly killed rats, puts the lungs under a atmosphere of containing the chemicals and reports the damage of epithelial cells over time. They hope to liken the experimental atmosphere to that of a cedar/pine wood mill, and explain the causal relationship between the wood, toxic chemicals, and 5% of mill workers developing asthma. 

"The toxicity of constituents of cedar and pine woods to pulmonary epithelium" Journal of allergy and clinical immunology. 1989. vol 83. pgs. 610-618.

In aquariums, a fish's gills and mucus membranes should be assumed affected. The only questions is how much resin still remains in those peices of wood, and does your chemical filtration absorb the toxins quickly. Your fish are alive, but their gills are likely being damaged from an additional source. This is a stretch, but I would consider your fish asthmatic. I would hypothesize, in the future, a combination of decreases in dissolved O2 and fish age will increase your stock loses.


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

The cedar driftwood I use has been drifting in a lake for years. They do not have any resin or toxin in them. I have some tanks that have had this type of driftwood in them for over three years. The only fish that I have had die, was due to a faulty heater and a male Krib. The Krib died due to a fight over a female. As you can see my tanks are in the best of shape with healthy plants and fish. BUT! if it would make you feel better I will get a fishy inhaler just in case my fish have a asthma attack. Your right its a BIG stretch.

Hawk

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## 5380 (Jun 16, 2005)

I did say it's a stretch, and i meant it could not be taken literally. I thought it would be a useful comparison, because asthma is a problem people deal with. 

You have a box with plants in it that look pretty. I forgot that it gives you the license to visually inspect for the presence of cedar resin, and to assess fish gills cell-by-cell. Your fish are not alive because there are no toxins in your water. Don't be ignorant, if you think i want to help you with anything-remember you never asked for help.


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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

Hwakeye,
The tank is doing awesome, but alas its time to start trimming and getting rid of some plants







I really do want to see that wood again.

Deicde on a focal point and lets get moving. You only have 7 weeks before you need to have the pictures in for the contest. With the wood being so low, you may want to get a foreground going. You caould actuall use the baby tears for that but it will be a few inches thick. If you need some glosso, just let me know.

The tiger lotus is growing great. It would make a really good focal at the base of your vertical wood or at the right optical center along the horizontal wood. Then frame it with greens to really pull the color out. Take the red stems and put them in the background behind some green midgrounds. Stage teh colors so they progress with subtle contrasts.

*James Hoftiezer
Hoftiezer.Net - Journals and Libraries
Rate My Tank!!

Tank Journal - Aquascape ( Latest / Archive(No Longer Active))
Tank Journal - Parts and Construction ( Latest / Archive(No Longer Active))*


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

I have to say this tank is out of control for now. After having my 55gal tank bust, some of the plants are being stored in this tank for now. Looks like after planning on three tanks to enter in the AB contest this year I am down to one tank maybe (36gal bow tank). There is one thing about this tank its grows plants!! I have to give the credit to Eco-Complete. I haven't added any root tabs to this tank. Looks like I might need to sell off some plants.










Hawk

Trust But Verify «*»®


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## imported_Mario (Jul 14, 2003)

Hawkeye, this is a little unrelated to your aquascaping:

In your earlier picture it looks like you have an Ozelot Sword in the center left of the tank. It seems to me the leaves are not 'flat' like they are supposed to be, but wavy and bent and some even look like they are folding over backwards. Is that impression correct?

I'm asking because my Ozelot sword (and to a lesser extent my Amazon Swords) are doing the same. The plant is getting huge, leaves are pearling, but the leaf shape is all distorted.

It looks like in your second picture the sword is doing better. Leaves are not folded over anymore, even though they are still ruffled.

So, my question is: Did you actually have a problem with your sword? And, if so, how did you fix it?


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

Mario, The swords your or referring to are not Ozelot Swords. They are Oriental Swords. They came form a very large Oriental Sword in my ( may it rest in peace ) 55gal tank. I thought there was one sword plant but after uprooting and replanting it I found that it was four plants. The leave where growing like that because they where so crowded they had a hard time finding space. After giving them more room the leaves started to open up more.

Hawk

Trust But Verify «*»®


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## imported_Mario (Jul 14, 2003)

Thanks for clearing that up, Hawkeye. I will post a picture of my sword in a separate post and try to get some help.


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## Plant idot... (Jul 6, 2003)

I am consideing ecocomplete in my next tank here shortly... What kind of possibility is for anaerobic build up with it?


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

Eco-Complete settles out with the smaller chunks on the bottom and the larger on top. I Keep large Malaysain Snails in all my tanks and haven't had any problems with anaerobic build.

Hawk


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