# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Plant types for a 20g "el natural" biotype...



## imported_Winzzy (Jun 25, 2003)

I am working diligently on setting up my 20H tank and was thinking of trying to use plants that are from the same region. I live in Phoenix so the water we have is very hard, and I am planning on keeping some tetras and a blue ram. The tank will also have some MTS and Red Cherry Shrimp

I found these groupings at azgardens.com

*West African:*
Corkscrew Vals
Contortion Vals
Anubias barteri
Anubias nana
Anubias coffeefolia or similar
Anubias frazeri

*South American:*
Corkscrew Val
Jungle Val
Amazon Sword
Red Rubin Sword
Anacharis
Cabomba
Narrow-leaf Ludwigia
Tennellus Chain Swords

*Asian:*
Giant Hygrophila
Rotala Indica
Crypt balansae
Crypt wendtii red
Crypt willisi
Dwarf water onions
Barclaya bulb
Crypt retro
Dwarf lily bulbs
Java ferns
Corkscrew Vals
Contortionist Vals
Four-leaf clovers

*Easy Plants:*
Anacharis
Blood Stargrass
Japanese Fans
Dwarf Lily Plant
Dwarf Onions
Ambulia
Tall Sagittaria subulata
Red-spot Ozelot sword
Crypt Walkeri
Java Ferns

Any thoughts or experiences (keeping in mind I am a new wet thumber) with these plants? I cant have emergent growth (except duckweed or maybe water lettuce) because of my cat... tank needs to be covered.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Hi, Winzman,

You are off to a good start by doing some research before you buy your first plants.

An assortment of so-called "easy" plants is a good way to get started. Even some of them will fail, but many won't, given even halfway decent conditions.

Be sure that you have adequate light. That is arguably the most important variable. Everything else depends on it.

Our host Robert offers a collection of "hard to kill" plants that you might consider. Here's a link: http://www.aquabotanic.com/abstore/index.html

If you haven't read it, you might also consider Ms. Walstad's book, "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium", which is available on line. Most valuable!

(After two plugs in one response, I guess I should say that I have no beneficial interest in either except as a customer.)

Bill


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## imported_Winzzy (Jun 25, 2003)

I borrowed Whiskey's copy of Ms. Walsted's book, as Amazon was taking to long (still dont have my copy yet), and have finished it.

The Lighting I chose for my 20H (16" tall) was a Double T5 Lightstrip from coralife (Total of 28W) as I didn't want to run CO2 (was afraid a 65w bulb would be to much).

I hadent seen Robert's Hard to kill plants thank you for that link!


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## javalee (May 8, 2006)

Winzman, I have my 10g tank covered (carnivore in the house here too







)and have emergent growth. I covered it with a plate of glass I had cut. It just rests over the top of the tank with my light strips sitting on top of it. I dropped my water level only about 3/4" and that gives my plants over 1.5" of "headroom" before they hit the glass. You can always drop it more. I like the jungle look as you look through the glass; some plants under and some poking above the surface in view. I also have lucky bamboo growing REALLY emergent, it is attached to the lip of the tank with the roots underwater and the rest of the plant now growing about 6" above the tank. It pokes through the space between the glass and the tank edge (I left space for airflow). So you can have cats and emergent growth!

I just noted your fish selection and your water parameters,too Both tetras and blue rams are softwater species. While tetras seem to adjust readily to other water types, blue rams are reportedly more sensitive and demanding of soft, acidic water.

I really wanted some blue rams and have SOFT water (0 dGH) but high pH (pH=8; 20dKH) which is rare, but I looked until I found a LFS that both kept the rams in unadjusted local water AND that also had good survival rates (many stores reported when I pressed them that their rams usually died when kept in local water.) Mine have done really well in soft/alkaline water, but don't breed. Just thought I'd give you some tips to prevent disappointment in your wallet and your fishtank. Rams are expensive here!

Good luck. They love poking around plants.


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## imported_Winzzy (Jun 25, 2003)

The rams may be a dream but its fun to dream some times.. I have had good luck with tetras before usig tap, I think the local stores already aclimate them.

I am not sure I want to drop my water level because Arizona water is VERY hard... Cleaning the side of my tanks would be a nightmare I think.


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## onemyndseye (May 12, 2006)

The posts about Cats sparked my attention...

I have 2 cats both about 1 year old.. But oddly enough they dont bother my tanks. I even have an open top 20H NPT on my bar with shrimp, various snails and 1 lone gourami.

The older one out of the pair LOVES to drink out of the tank though... LOL .. makes top-offs come VERY quickly. Probably not the best thing for the tank but I havnt seen any problems from it.

Mine are inside-only cats, I would probably be more concerned if they were outies









Good Luck!
-Justin
One Mynds Eye


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## imported_Winzzy (Jun 25, 2003)

The problem with my cat is it is a Bengal. Bengals are a cross between the Asian Leopard Cat (a small forest dwelling wild cat) and a domestic house cat. That being said they still have a lot of wild blood in them. Their temperaments are greats and they are very loving kind cats, but they love to hunt and can, depending on the cat, jump over seven feet into the air...

Your cats might be content to just drink the water but mine would defiantly go hunting for something tasty and maybe decided to get in and cool off (they love water) since it is hot in Arizona.

Its awesome having a miniature leopard!


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## whiskey (Oct 9, 2004)

Since you have not dealt with a planted tank before I would not worry about a biotape just yet. Any plants I have you can have, one trimming of my tank will fill yours. I would get your "water legs" first with some free plants, figure out how how to keep your tank algae free, then down the line 6 months or so go with a more structured tank.

Val's don't seem to do two well, somebody gave me a bunch of them and they all died. One thing to keep in mind, although we do have hard water here in phoenix, the tanic acid from the potting soil drops your KH perty quick. 

HTH,
Whiskey


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## imported_Winzzy (Jun 25, 2003)

Free plants > biotype at this point... just ask my wife!


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

I agree w/ Whiskey's suggestion... I too wanted to start a South American biotope but wanted to make sure that I could properly grow plants and that required getting a large variety, not all of which are necessarily from So. Am....

Some other observations... one of my LFS has blue Rams here in rockland county, ny. They are bred locally. What's interesting is that ROCKland's water is well, like rock! It's generally quite hard and I was surprised to hear that someone had managed to breed them. I'm determined to try, but so far, out of all the fish I've bought none have been males. 

I've had mixed experiences w/ vals. In my first, very soft water tank, they did quite poorly. But here, where the water is harder they've done very well. Whiskey's right in that soil will lower KH, but I counteracted that by adding crushed cuttlebone to my substrate and have since seen the vals put out a lot more growth. Some stretch over three feet (that's from one end of the tank to the other and starting to go back again!)

As for cats, we have three of them but none of them bother the tanks. They actually drink from the 2.5 gal w/ the betta. I've been meaning to take a pic b/c sometimes when the cat is drinking the betta will come right up to where the cat's lapping the water. It'd be such a great picture! Now if I can just remember to keep the camera in the living room....

-ricardo


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## Miss Fishy (May 13, 2006)

Talking of cats...our cat has fallen in my ponds several times! Her eyesight isn't too good (she has brain damage) and she didn't realise there was water as well as plants in the containers. She was surprised but didn't really mind much. 

I have netting (the kind sold to put over fruit trees to stop birds getting the fruit) over all my tanks and some ponds. The holes are large enough for emergent plants to grow through but small enough so that the cat can't fit her paws through. 

From Alex.


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## imported_Winzzy (Jun 25, 2003)

I have never meet more intelligent cats than Bengals, and since I feel that de-clawing them it barbaric (they leave my furniture alone anyways) they have full use of all the tools the need to remove any netting I would put on the tank... These cats eat fish in the wild as part of their diet (birds as well).

That being said, I have seen some saltwater owners use egg crate to cover tanks. I think that would work I am afraid that small freshwater fish could jump through it though.


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## whiskey (Oct 9, 2004)

eggcrate is great, and cheap, but you are right some fish could jump through. How about putting the netting below the eggcrate so the cat can't get to the netting?

HTH,
Whiskey


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## Miss Fishy (May 13, 2006)

I tie the netting on securely with fishing line so the cat can't get it off (she isn't really interested in going fishing anyway so she can't be bothered going to the trouble of pulling off the fishing line). I didn't think of fish jumping out because the fish in my open-top tanks don't jump. Oops. Since you have a tall tank anyway, Winzman, could you just keep the water level low so the emergent plants could grow under the lid? 

From Alex.


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## imported_Winzzy (Jun 25, 2003)

I could but the hard water would really muck up the side of the tank... it may be what i have to do though..


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