# Anyone Experience Red Cherry Shrimp Deaths Using Plantex CSM+B



## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Can anyone here confirm Red Cherry Shrimp Deaths Resulting from the use of Plantex CSM+B for Micro Fertilization. Copper is allegedly lethal to invertebrates and this stuff is supposed to contain copper. However, I am interested in peoples' personal experiences(i.e., deaths/survivals) with RCS's using this stuff.


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## Winkyee (May 23, 2007)

I lost some (all but one or two...) using the flourish version of that..I had stepped up dosage since the redo of my tank....
I'm down to a few snowball shrimp.. and one cherry..


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Lost all of mine......didn't realize there was copper in there. Whoops!


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Thanks guys  Wood's extremely interesting post brought that to my attention. The post was truly fascinating. He had cherries breeding and the ottos were doing really well. He stated that he did not dose CSM+B due to the copper. I was going to test this stuff with EI and pps pro, but I may just try Wood's fertilization regime(Seachem Iron+KH2PO4+Kent Plant Pro w/30% water changes)using similiar C02 set up, plant type/mass, and lighting. Given that normally highly sensitive RCS and ottos did well, I would put faith in what he did.
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/35202-cherry-tree-10-gallon-planted-3.html

One day when I get enough time and more importantly can make enough space, I would like to test 3 10 gallons side by side with the same types of plants and mass. One with EI Fertilization and 50% water changes, the other with PPS-PRO dosing 30-50% water changes, and another 10 gallon natural tank using Diana Walstead's concepts. Just to see, which one fairs the best over the long run.

Regards


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## Halibass (Jan 28, 2007)

I use Tropica Master Grow for micros and my Cherries/Otto are doing fine. Dosing EI method.


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## ingg (Apr 8, 2007)

Hmm, I dose CSM+B, albeit lightly, in my shrimp tank, and no problems so far, been a few months and lots of breeding...


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

ingg said:


> Hmm, I dose CSM+B, albeit lightly, in my shrimp tank, and no problems so far, been a few months and lots of breeding...


Okay, just curious. Can you define lightly. What size is your tank? What plants and how many do you have in there? How frequently and how much water do you change? How much of the CSM+B do you dose? Do you dose straight powder or mix in liquid form and dose liquid? Many thanks.

Regards


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## ingg (Apr 8, 2007)

30 long, lots of plants, to me at least.

Pogostemon Yatabeanus, couple of hygro types, marselea minuta, HC, and micro tenellus in front, couple big clumps of moss, ludwigia hybrid stems, couple stems of blyxa, couple stems of some kind of pennywort, couple of stems of elatine orientalis, 3 or 4 small crypts.

DIY CO2, and I dose premixed into liquid, 3-4 ml once/twice a week, premix is 1 tablepsoon in 250 ml water.

Here is a pic - I just mowed the Ludwigia yesterday, it was up ot the top covering about all of the Eheim tube you can now see. Heh, was going to post the trim for sale here, but I don't have the post count to be able to yet.


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## Purrbox (Jun 1, 2006)

I'm dosing CSM+B and my Cherries are breeding like rabbits. I dose according to EI in all my tanks. 

I read an article someplace, don't ask where since it was months ago and I didn't bookmark it, that the amount of copper in CSM+B, Flourish Comprehisive, Tropica Plant Nutrition, and other similar micronutrient fert mixes is not enough to harm shrimp when dosed at reasonable levels. The article was based on lab research if I'm remembering right.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

I never had any issues with Plantex CSM+B with Cherry shrimp. Purrbox is right, the copper in Plantex is negiglible as long as you are doing regular waterchanges, and not dumping full tablespoons. 

-John N.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Boron is toxic at high levels too... They're called trace elements a reason.


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## Rob Tetrazona (Jun 21, 2005)

I dose my planted 75 EI'ish. It gets 15ml 3xWeek of micros (1Tbsp CSM+B/500ml H2O) and I have RCS out my ears. I could have thousands. Granted the fish population is almost nothing, but this tells me I'm not killing my shrimp with ferts. Sometimes I don't water change for 3 weeks.


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## dhavoc (Mar 17, 2006)

i use PPS pro, and dose CSM+B daily in a 120g, i used to do weekly water changes but stopped to see if that helped my GSA problem. i have wild form cherries in the hundreds and a small but growing population of dwarf crays. no deaths that i can tell and everyone is breeding. as long as you do water changes and dont overdose, you should be fine with most of the hardier shrimp.


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## lottie_pufferfish (Jan 16, 2007)

rwoehr said:


> I dose my planted 75 EI'ish. It gets 15ml 3xWeek of micros (1Tbsp CSM+B/500ml H2O) and I have RCS out my ears. I could have thousands. Granted the fish population is almost nothing, but this tells me I'm not killing my shrimp with ferts. Sometimes I don't water change for 3 weeks.


I want to try this. I was reading about EI, then was thinking PPS pro.(becasue the classic seemed time consuming) 
But now im reading that people can have shrimp die, easy? i know if you do it right none should die, but i dont want to go with a system that if i fugde a little form the sceduale, il get dead shrimp.
plus, i want to add 2 ottos. in the past ive tryed to, but they always die.


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## feiyang (Jan 27, 2007)

i dose CSM+B, but maybe not much to either shrimps or plants. my shrimps do not die.


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