# Pressurized, finally. A ? though.



## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

I set up my pressurized setup on friday. Woo Hoo It consists of a 5lb tank(reconditioned fire extinguisher) a beverage dual guage regulator, needle valve adn all the fittings needed to make the needle valve work. On friday, at setup, the tank read 900psi. I set the output to about 5 psi and needle valve so it releases 1 bubble every ~2 seconds. MY levels are good and everything is consistant but its only tuesday afternoon and already the tank reads 750psi. Is this correct. I tried testing for leakes wiht soapy water but found none. Could this be right? At this rate I do not see how 5 lbs could last 8 months on a 55 gal tank. 

Any ideas :?


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

that doesn't sound right. You have to have a leak somewhere. have you checked EVERY possible leak area? ..even those that you have nothing to do with? ...like where the guage screws into the regulator body? etc etc


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Yep, everything checked and rechecked. I just did it again. Every fitting from the main valve on the tank itself, all the connections for guages, releaf valve, veedle valve, including hte valve itself. No leakes. I am very confused :?


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

could it be that it was filled with 900 psi of gas, no liquid. WOuld the gas itself compress that much with out being in liquid form. Also, I attached hte regulator upside down so that the tubing would come from the top and not kink. I don't see how this would hurt any thing. It seems there must be a leak but none show up wiht the soapy water test. :?


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

as long as the tank isnt upside down, that shouldn't matter. should be liquid at 900 PSI.

is there a possibility you miss read the first time?


I almost want you to dunk the whole think in a pool to find the leak *L*

it is perplexing why you get the huge drop.


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## turbomkt (Mar 31, 2004)

Warning...stupid question alert. Did you get the tank filled/topped off? Even if you have a small leak, that couldn't account for 5 lbs in a couple days. You should be at 900 psi until you are almost out of CO2. Then, at the end, it will drop rapidly as there is no more liquid to expand into gas.

My first thought was it was barely filled and starting to use it was the final straw. My second thought was is it in a stable temperature room or is there a significant decrease from previous checks of the gauge?


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## Steve Pituch (Jan 25, 2004)

When I have filled my 20# tank it is covered with ice when I put it in the truck It is often about 700 psi on my gauge later in the house. Within a day or two it settles down to about 575 psi, and very gradually goes down to zero. I don't think you should rely on a literal psi value. It depends on the gauge.

I think someone should be able to give more advice on the pressures to expect throughout the life of the CO2 charge.

I use about 20# of CO2 in 6 months for my 75 and 125 gallon tanks combined. So your 5# tank should last roughly the same 6 months.

I once had a CO2 tank recharge last one week. I found the leak at a nipple and vinyl hose. I now wrap all the connections with two wraps of wire and twist them tight with pliers. I assume you are checking for leaks with warm water and soap to make bubbles.

You can easily check the charge by shaking the bottle. You will feel the liquid CO2 swish. My gauge has a red "recharge" area below 400 psi. I think in theory the CO2 is all gas by then.

Dennis, congrats on the bottled CO2 equipment, and good luck.

Also, I always thought CO2 was added to a tank based on weight of the liquid CO2, not pressure. During a recharge it may be harder to weigh 5# of CO2 than it is to weigh 20#.

Steve


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

I go tit from a fire extenguisher company. I assume they would fill it corrctly but I don't know. I bought it as a beverage tank and they knew it was for a fish tank. 

turbo, not a dumb question really, but I wish it was that simple. I know it read 900psi at the start and i have gradually watched it drop to about 750 psi in the course of 4 days. The temps here were in the 70s when I got it and we have since had a bit of a cold snap so my room this evening was probably in the low to mid 60's I can't imagine that would play that big of a roll.

I am not home right now but will try the shake test when I do :wink: I have been considering dunking it in something Gomer. This is driving me nuts now. Maybe I could fill up a trashcan tomorrow :idea: From Steve's experiences I wonder if this is that abnormal, but logic tells me that something is amiss. I don't think you should be having htese problems either Steve. Here is my though, I technically have a fire extinguisher. There is no way they would sell me something that would not hold a charge. They would soon be out of buisness with a huge lawsuit.

Anyway, thanks all for hte comments and suggestions. I keep messing wiht it. I always thought that the liqiud form of CO2 would remain at a constant pressure until the liquid was exhausted. This is obviously not happening wiht me, what ever the reason is. I think I will call the extinguisher place tomorrow. There could really only be to problems here, seems to me. Either there is a lieak that I can't find(unlikely at this ppoint) or the tank was not filled wiht much liquid to begin with :? 

Thanks again,


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## Steve Pituch (Jan 25, 2004)

Dennis,

I probably wouldn't worry too much.

Shake it.

I do think the pressure is extremely related to temp.

Use it and enjoy it.

They gave me a new tank and free refill when I took my "leaker" back. It doesn't matter to them, they check and repair every tank that comes back to them, so exchanges are common. As it turns out the tank was fine, as it was a leak in my part of the system. The last tank I exchanged because it had a protective collar around the valve and I always had trouble connecting the regulator to the valve. When I got the replacement tank home the valve would not open. They said they would replace the valve and put it back in service, but they gave me another tank. For big clients they work on exchanges anyway.

Steve


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## BobAlston (Jan 23, 2004)

Just take it back to the place where you got it, the fire extinguisher company and have them help you figure it out.

I agree with an earlier post that it was likely not filled with any liquid co2. In fact, the pressure may just be gas from a last pressure test. Maybe no co2. UNless you specifically were told the tank was full when you bought it, you probably needed to get it filled. So take it back and have them resolve it.

Suggest you weight it on the kitchen scale before you go. When you come back, it should be several pounds, approx 5 pounds heavier.

Note that fire extinguisher place should be able to give you a pretty full fillup. Not so at some of the beer places - like one I tried - which just doesn't have the right equipment.

My fire extinguisher refill guy is great! Also raises koi.

Bob


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

Same here, the fire extinguisher folks are great and know what they are doing. They will even set you up with a used tank for less money than most other places.

Pressure shortly after a refill is subject to many variables such as temperature and so forth. Your best bet is to place the tank on a scale and monitor the weight for a week or so. That of course is IF you shake it and it feels like it's full of liquid, if not, then it wasn't filled. Make sure they know what it's for, with fire extinguishers used to extinguish fires, the tanks are not filled with liquid CO2 because they need to be filled with the liquid that is used to put out the fire. CO2 is only used to propel the contents out so it's only present in a small percentage of the total contents. In our case, we want all CO2 in there so they need to know that.

Hope that helps
Giancarlo Podio


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

That does help everyone

Thanks gpodio. I did not realize it was only the propelent. After I started this post I have been watching it closely. I tried the shake and I have no idea if it feels full or empty. Since my first post, when I said the psi was 750, it has climbed back to 800(eather is warmer too) and stayed there. 3 days now and pressure has not changed. Maybe I was being a bit hasty. I will still call them when I can just to know for sure, and I will continue ot watch it closely. If I do find out anything, I'll post it here.

Thanks again to all


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## turbomkt (Mar 31, 2004)

Actually, the CO2 is not necessarily just a propellant. It depends on the type of extinguisher. A true CO2 extinguisher (Probably the tank in question), uses CO2 to displace O2 and cool the fuel. The types of extinguishers that use the CO2 as a propellant are considered chemical extinguishers. CO2 is only good for electrical and wood based fires while the chemical ones are good for oil based fires as well (But can be corrosive to electrical equipment - we hated when people would use PKP, a chemical extinguisher, on eletrical equipment on my ship when I was in the Navy).

As for your tank, with such fluctuating pressures....there should be a tare weight stamped on the neck of the bottle. Weigh it and check if it is noticeably above the tare weight. If there is no tare weight listed, ask the place you got it what the typical weight empty is. They shouldn't have to work hard to figure it out.

HTH.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Well, figured I'd post a litle update. Maybe this info will help others not get all excited  

The pressure actually has stabelized at around 850psi. This has not changed since my last posting actually, so about a week. I guess I was a littel pre mature. I never weighed the tank of even called the fire people but I assume if is not still droping then I must have "reached" the liquid CO2. 

Thanks for the help everyone


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