# 75 Gallon Algae Mess, You'd think i woulda figured it out



## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Hey all,

I've had this 75 up for a while now, and the issues just keep getting worse. First of all, I'm still battling GDA, which I've had for close to 1.5 years. I've changed every possible parameter, the most recent of which being switching to RO/DI water, reconstituted with GH Booster and Baking soda.

It's a 75 gallon with 4x55 watt t5ho lighting, pressurized co2, e.i. fert dosing, plenty of flow, decent fish load, heavy plant load.

It absolutely makes no sense to me. Lighting has been switched and broken in, I do a 50% wc every week for the ferts, and I'm now using RO/DI water. It seems like after a 50% wc, whatever the algae was feeding off of would be reduced, thus the algae growth would be reduced.... I've gone a few weeks without ferts to try to starve the algae, but nothing has worked.

The leaves of my plants start to go "limp"/slightly curl after a week or two of being "new growth", which has always been an issue for me. The algae on the leaves is slightly slimy, but not like BGA. It has some spots, but it doesn't act like GSA. I have GDA on the glass which grows back after 3 days and completely baffles me, and dark green coloring on my white sand (but it's not BGA).

These algae issues have baffled me beyond the fertilizer/light ratio, it seems like i have plenty of plants to outcompete the algae, and the tank is over a year old.

Someone have a mini-nuke i can use? :frusty::frusty::frusty:

Oh what i would pay to have a tank which just grew nice, algae free plants...


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Other info:

Light period 9 hours with 1 hour siesta in middle
Flourite substrate


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi flashbang009,

I would appreciate a little more information please. Do you use a drop checker with a 4.0 dKH indicator solution. What is the CO2 PPM?

Please tell me about the photoperiod, and bulb temps (K).

Also, do you check your water parameters or have you taken your water into the LFS for testing. I am interested in both as it comes out of the tap (or RO/DI) and just before you do a water change. Readings on nitrates, KH, GH, and PH would be a help.

Does the "slimy algae" have a strong smell?


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Ill do some testing, but at last check gh and kh out of tap was 4, and I reconstitute the ro (everything zero) to gh and kh of 3. When I last checked phosphates were high i believe due to over use of substrate pellets (however I have been having these problems before high phosphates). Nitrates are in normal e.I. range. 

Photoperiod is 9 hours with one hour break in middle. Bulbs are 1x 6500k and 3x 5000k. I would've gone with all 6500 but all I could find locally was 5000k.

I have a drop checker but haven't gotten around to using it. Co2 is at a point that any higher the fish gasp.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Did some water testing. 

4 days after 50% wc with RO/DI (GH booster and baking soda added):

Ph- 6.4
KH- 9dkh (higher than usual due to baking soda)
GH- 5dkh
NO3- 7ppm
PO4- 6 ppm (still high and i'm not sure why)

Anyways, the phosphates have been high ever since i added the root tabs. At this point I'm waiting for the plants to use up the extra phosphates, and just want everything to level out so i haven't fertilized after the wc. (note: last thursday was first wc with RO/DI)

At this point should i just crank up the co2 and resume e.i. dosing? 

I'm attaching pictures showing my algae issues. One thing i've noticed is a dark green and light green spot algae pattern on my rocks and plants. It's almost like there's GSA and BGA on a leaf... (see pic)

I do have a few rocks in the tank that came from a previously (25+years) agricultural area.

Any advice would be appreciated.

In the pictures you can see the different algae issues, and the everlasting GDA!


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

More GDA pics


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi flashbang009,



> KH- 9dkh (higher than usual due to baking soda)
> GH- 5dkh


Are you sure, I didn't think is was possible to have a dKH higher than a dGH? dGH measures total hardness and should include the carbonates that dKH measures.

I would start with a good glass cleaning and a 50% water change to do a "reset". Since you can't seem to get your phosphate level down (have you checked the foods you are feeding?) then the alternative is to bring your nitrogen level up. If I remember correctly the suggested range for nitrates when dosing EI is 5-30 ppm and for phosphates 1.0 - 3.0. Why not bring up your nitrates by increasing your dosing level of KNO3? BTW, the thread on Controlled Imbalances suggests raising the nitrate level to help control GDA.

Also, if you are currently dosing the KH2PO4 with your EI dosing, discontinue it for a week and see what happens. In the meantime, see if any of the foods you are feeding have phosphates, flake foods and pellets can be a source of phosphate that is overlooked.

Please don't change anything else. Just the cleaning, water change, and increased nitrogen dosing and let us know what happens in a week.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Ok sounds like a plan! I use kens fish food for feeding, my guess is that's where my phosphates are coming from (Good point!)

I'll retest my kh and gh tomorrow, you're right that doesn't make sense.

As for the cleaning, i'll keep doing it. This is the same thing i've done, however, for the past year. Scrape all algae, 50% wc, "reset". Hopefully with the RO/DI now it may work.

As for the GDA and NO3 i'll be sure to try raising no3 levels. For some reason i thought it would do the opposite.

I also just added 5 otocinclus on top of my 4 SAE's 

Thanks for the response.


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## goldier (Feb 13, 2010)

I think the otos will help, and if you can have shrimp, the Amanos addition will be better. I have found that algae can grow quite well even in low P or N levels in my setting. I added the otos and Amano shrimp for the cleaning job and I've been very happy with them. Fish World on Westinghouse blvd usually carries the Amanos.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Yeah i tried shrimp but my angels love to eat them. I would go with fish world but they recently closed down X( so....
Thanks for the advice though


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## Jason Baliban (Feb 21, 2005)

EI can be a very effective tool, but i have found that when it fails it often fails with extreme GDA or GSA. This is caused by an imbalance between N and P. 

If its hard to scrape off the glass it is GSA and can be treated with higher P dosing.

If its easy to scrape off the glass it is GDA and can be treated with higher N dosing.

jB


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Its definitely easy to scrape off (GDA). Ill definitely start off with higher N dosing. Any idea what the other algae (rocks, plants) is?


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## Jason Baliban (Feb 21, 2005)

One thing at a time 

Almost all algae is an imbalance. I use glass algae as a good indicator of this. I often dose based on glass algae. When i take care of that, I often see improvement in other algaes as well as growth.

jB


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## darkoon (Jun 7, 2010)

agreed on possible N/P imbalance.
Reading this post by Christian_rubilar and follow his GDA protocol
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/69737-method-controlled-imbalances-summary.html


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Yeah, I've read his suggestions before and they seem logical. Last year though when i began this GDA problem, i tried adding KNO3 with no PO4 to find my "NO3 uptake", but i never got GSA after 2 weeks. Did wc and tried again but no luck. However now that I've changed so many variables, i'll continue to dose/raise NO3, and not dose any PO4

I assume i should still add CSM+B? My red plants have started to lighten in color so.


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## Laure (Apr 1, 2009)

Hi flashbang009

I see a couple of issues here. Firstly, your T5HO bulbs are probably 54W and not 55W. I just want to get clarity on this as 55W bulbs are PC bulbs and 54W bulbs are 48" T5HO bulbs. Regardless, you have FAR TOO MUCH LIGHT. You will never be able to provide enough CO2 with that amount of light. 2 x T5HO bulbs on any tank with some decent reflectors is equal to high light; make no mistake about this fact. You can measure it with a PAR meter to confirm. This goes for all standard sized tanks around 18" high or less.

Secondly, your 3 x 5000K bulbs have a strong peak in the 550nm light spectrum and you are providing a lot of light which plants can't use but algae love, especially BGA. The slimy growth might be a form of BGA and I'm reasonably sure that your low NO3 and high PO4, together with the incorrect spectrum and too much light, are responsible for these issues.

Do the 3-day black out procedure. Off with CO2, add an airstone or create more surface ripple to increase O2, cover the tank with dark material so absolutely no light enters the tank. Don't feed fish. Dose 3ppm of NO3 daily during this blackout. On the fourth day, do 80% WC and clean the glass exposed above the water level. Switch your CO2 on gain and then run only 2 bulbs for a weak and only dose KNO3 and perhaps another source of K, but I'd be weary to dose anything with sulphates as this will cause problems. Keep dosing traces as before. Dose about 15ppm NO3 during the weak divided into 3 portions. Forget the test kits; look at the algae and plants.

Repeat the blackout again. 3 cycles like this will knock back the algae. Some of your more sensitive plants may take a bit of strain, but in the long run they will recover quickly once your tank is algae free.

Regards
Lauré


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

I have never heard thar 4x54 watt is too much for a 75 gallon. Just for arguements sake, that's around 3 wpg which I've heard of being much higher. Take the sun for example, there's way too much light theoretically but ecosystems adapt. 

As for blackouts, I prefer to to remove algae manually than use a blackout because the tank then has to adapt after that. I appreciate the advice and will consider it if nothing improves. 

Anybody else care to weigh in on the lighting situation?


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## Jason Baliban (Feb 21, 2005)

flashbang009 said:


> Anybody else care to weigh in on the lighting situation?


4x54 t5 IS a lot of light! The reflectors on those suckers are pretty insane!

I would certainly consider running 2 of the 4 lights for a couple weeks and see how your plants respond. Another thing to consider is the height the fixture is hung above the tank?

if you change your light you will also need to monitor your nutrients as there will probly be less uptake.

As far as blackout, i have never done one of those so i cant comment on that.

jB


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

The stronger the light the less wiggle room there is with organic content. If you can run the 2nd set of bulbs for even 1 or 2 hrs it should give even the more demanding plants what they need and not have a large impact on algae. Just my opinion I pretty much run all my tanks from an organic limiting mentality as long as you dose sufficiently. BTW This is more interesting than looking at people sleeping on the train.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi flashbang009,

I'll weigh in as well, and I have to agree with Laure, Jason, and HoC that 4X54 watts is a lot of light. When Tom Barr did his talk here at GSAS in September, it was about "Light Limited, CO2 Enriched Aquariums" and I learned to look my planted aquariums differently. 

I had always considered my planted tanks as a "system;" consisting of the plants, light, CO2, and nutrients; which was one of his points. And I understood that with any "system" there will always be a "limiting factor". If I allow CO2 or a nutrient to become the "limiting factor" then the results are usually algae or plant deficiencies. But what happens if I make light the "limiting factor" in the aquarium? It is much easier to monitor and measure and adjust than most nutrients (including CO2) and the results of changing my light (photoperiod/intensity) can be seen in plant growth very quickly. BTW, I use AH Supply kits with their excellent MIRO 4 reflectors on my planted aquariums and have a photoperiod of about 6 hours with about 2.5 / 2.0 WPG on my 30 / 45 gallon tanks.

I always recommend changing just one parameter (light/ferts/CO2) at a time when trying to determine a problem or solve a deficiency. Whenever I have tried to change more than one parameter at a time, the results were disappointing and inconclusive. 

Flashbang009, the reason I suggested attacking the problem with additional Nitrogen first (as opposed to the photoperiod) was a result of the pictures you provided. I saw very little new, healthy growth. With the amount of light you are providing, if you are providing sufficient nutrients and CO2 the aquarium should be overgrown....it is not. Currently the ideal N-P-K (nitrogen ((not nitrates)); Phosphorus; Potassium) ratio is considered to be 7-1-8. With your high phosphate level and low nitrate level it seems that currently nitrates are your "limiting factor" and increased growth should result from bringing you nitrate level up. Addressing lowering the light level / photoperiod will result in the need for less nutrients, including the high phosphate level which we are trying to determine source. How are you coming on that?


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Wow, lots of great advice and input, thanks everyone. 

First off I never thought of making light the limting factor. That puts a whole new spin on how I've been thinking about it. I'll definitely try running only two bulbs and adding the other two bulbs sparingly (2 hours?)

The light is mounted with arms right on the tank so its probably 4 in. above the water line. Its actually an aquaticlife reef fixture, and the reflectors are decent but nothing special. The bulbs are awfully close too.

As for the high phosphorus, I think it is in fact the fish food. Its kens regular flake but its the only thing I can think of. Filters clean and I haven't been dosing po4 so.

For now ill do a 60% wc and try to bring my nitrogen up via no3. I'm also thinking about the gda in terms of the mci approach. Possible mg:ca ratio mixup, but I've heard mixed reviews about mci (tried the no3 protocol but never got gsa but that's a discussion for another day). 

So should I try to tweak the lights while adjusting nitrogen or wait and only adjust one parameter?

Again, really appreciate the help everyome


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi flashbang009,

I like the one parameter at a time method; how else will you know what is working? I know that we all want to solve our problems as quickly as possible; but the idea is to learn from each other as well. You mentioned that you had lived with this problem for over a year, a couple of weeks or so to hopefully resolve it (or at least minimize it) is not that long.


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## darkoon (Jun 7, 2010)

flashbang009 said:


> I have never heard thar 4x54 watt is too much for a 75 gallon. Just for arguements sake, that's around 3 wpg which I've heard of being much higher. Take the sun for example, there's way too much light theoretically but ecosystems adapt.
> 
> As for blackouts, I prefer to to remove algae manually than use a blackout because the tank then has to adapt after that. I appreciate the advice and will consider it if nothing improves.
> 
> Anybody else care to weigh in on the lighting situation?


I have 4x55w PC lights over my 72G, I run the 1st set for 9 hours, and the 2nd set for 6 hours, I don't have algae problems. I had 2x55w when I first started with plants, I had major BBA issues. I think you just have to find the imbalance that causes the algae outbreak. it is worth to give Method of Controlled Imbalances a try.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> I had always considered my planted tanks as a "system;" consisting of the plants, light, CO2, and nutrients; which was one of his points. And I understood that with any "system" there will always be a "limiting factor". If I allow CO2 or a nutrient to become the "limiting factor" then the results are usually algae or plant deficiencies. But what happens if I make light the "limiting factor" in the aquarium? It is much easier to monitor and measure and adjust than most nutrients (including CO2) and the results of changing my light (photoperiod/intensity) can be seen in plant growth very quickly.


As i reread this it makes more and more sense everytime. So if the nitrogen increase doesn't help after a week or two, i should reduce my lighting enough to make it my limiting factor. However, how do i adjust my ferts so that algae can't use the excess ferts due to the reduced light/plant growth?


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## darkoon (Jun 7, 2010)

You should take a CO2 mesurement/estimate first just to rule out the most basic CO2 issue. 
start with a large water change, then take a mesurement of your KH and PH before CO2 injection, and another measurement of PH 3 hours after CO2 injection to see the difference in PH, then use CO2/KH/PH chart to estimate CO2 ppm.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi flashbang009,



> As i reread this it makes more and more sense everytime. So if the nitrogen increase doesn't help after a week or two, i should reduce my lighting enough to make it my limiting factor. However, how do i adjust my ferts so that algae can't use the excess ferts due to the reduced light/plant growth?


If the increased NO3 improves your conditions we can assume the limiting factor is nitrogen/nitrates. If the cause of the high PO4 level can be identified and corrected, then reducing the ferts and photoperiod / intensity would be next.

+1 for darkoon, it is time to determine the CO2 level. I would do the CO2/PH/KH test suggested and set up that drop checker with 4.0 dKH indicator solution as well.


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## darkoon (Jun 7, 2010)

don't forget to scrape off all or most GDA from the glass before water change.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Haha I wont forget. I love scraping it off, every time I hope its the last. 

So I added no3 per e.I. dosing yesterday and today the no3 is 10 ppm.
Ill do a 60% wc tomorrow and ill go from there.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

So tested some water parameters a sec. ago (haven't done wc) and these were my results:

KH: 5dkh
GH: 5dkh
PO4: 5-6 ppm?!?!?!?!

If the phosphates have dropped, it's by very little. I have another smaller tank that's a 30 gallon, and the phosphates in that tank which just has plants and fish, no ferts or co2, were 1-2. From this i'm guessing it might be the food, but i'm not entirely sure. I'm thinking of buying some phoszorb filter floss? (thoughts?)

Also checked my substrate fertilizer and there's no phosphorus in it which is where i thought it was coming from.

I also set up my co2 drop checker w/ 4dkh solution + ph indicator. 

Will perform a water change tonight and possibly add the phoszorb floss.


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## darkoon (Jun 7, 2010)

do a WC, then check the PO4 level again before you add phoszorb floss.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Did wc tonight, will check po4 in a sec. Can't be coming from tap b/c i use ro/di water so...

Edit: checked po4, 2.5 ppm. I can only hope this number doesn't increase during the week. So now I can start trying to get my nitrates up to par.

Also added my drop checker and it read green after a few hours. 

One thing I have to correct also is that my lighting consists of 1x 6500k, 1x 10,000k, and 2x 5000k. The 10000k was initially added to make the tank look brighter as I know its not much use to plants. Any problem with keeping this on as it relates to possibly reducing my light?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi flashbank009,



> The 10000k was initially added to make the tank look brighter as I know its not much use to plants. Any problem with keeping this on as it relates to possibly reducing my light?


Actually, I believe the 10,000K does add "usable light" and probably should be counted.

Did a little checking on foods high in phosphates; your assumption about the food may be right:


> There are also natural foods which contain relatively high levels of phosphate. It is important to be aware of them and, depending on the level of phosphate-sensitivity, to consume them in small quantities. We recommend to eliminate all phosphate-rich foods from the diet for three to four weeks to see if there is an improvement in health. Then the foods below can be re-introduced into the diet, one at a time. Some of these foods may be tolerated by a sensitive person, *providing* they are consumed in small quantities.
> They include: Egg yolks
> Milk
> Nuts
> ...


Ingredients in Ken's Angel Flakes:


> *ANGEL FISH FLAKE:*
> AN PREMIUM DIET FOR YOUR PRIZE ANGEL FISH.
> 
> A PROPRIETARY BLEND OF
> ...


​


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## DVS (Nov 20, 2005)

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/lighting/38014-lighting-spectrum-photosythesis.html

This post seems to suggest that kelvin rating provides very little useful information as far as light spectrum.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi flashbank009,
> 
> Actually, I believe the 10,000K does add "usable light" and probably should be counted.
> 
> ...


Ahh, that's very good to know. I appreciate the research on your part. Well i actually use the regular flake from Ken's:



> *INGREDIENTS:*FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, *SOY FLOUR. OAT FLOUR*, *CORN GLUTEN MEAL*, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGAE, DRIED KELP, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, THIAMINE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( SOURCE OF VITAMIN C).


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Tested no3 and po4 today:

PO4- 2ppm
NO3- 5ppm 

I added more NO3 to bring the amount up to hopefully beat the algae.

On a more positive note, my bolbitis has started to grow like crazy and looks really nice. I had stuck some Peacock moss in near the roots, and it's spread out nicely. Roots have started to make the area look like a jungle


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Jason,

Wow, quick response on the part of Bolbitis! I usually find it slow to respond to changes I have made in my tank. Please keep us updated on your progress.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Well it's been about a week since i upped my co2. I generally find also that about a week after i trim the bolbitis i start getting new leaves.

I can already see the GDA starting to come back, even with high NO3 and low PO4. I realize it will take a few days to really see a difference but i'm thinking of taking out one bulb. I've gotten more opinions that seem to repeat the fact that i have too much light. So here's my next question: Do i take out one 5000k or the 10000k? The lights right now are 1x 10000k 1x 6500k 2x 5000k. I'm leaning towards taking out a 5000k.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

flashbang009 said:


> Well it's been about a week since i upped my co2. I generally find also that about a week after i trim the bolbitis i start getting new leaves.
> 
> I can already see the GDA starting to come back, even with high NO3 and low PO4. I realize it will take a few days to really see a difference but i'm thinking of taking out one bulb. I've gotten more opinions that seem to repeat the fact that i have too much light. So here's my next question: Do i take out one 5000k or the 10000k? The lights right now are 1x 10000k 1x 6500k 2x 5000k. I'm leaning towards taking out a 5000k.


It probably doesn't matter that much which bulb you take out. You could run a successful tank with all 5000k or all 10000k. It's personal, I like 8000 to 10000k better.

In regards to the phosphates. How much po4 are you dosing? If not alot than you might be having issues from feeding too much. I see you have some larger fish, although I think you would have to be feeding alot to have an effect on a 75g.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

All of the PO4 readings i've posted have been without dosing any PO4. I haven't dosed it for at least the last 2 weeks because of the high levels. When i feed however, there is no food left within 30 seconds. I do have a good amount of fish (~20 serpae tetras, 3 angels) so there's still a decent amount of food going into the tank. 

I decided to take out a 5000K bulb because i don't like the spectrum personally. So now i have a 10000K, 6500K, and a 5000K.

EDIT: I can already see the GDA growin back. It's most prevalent on the side of the tank opposite the filter outflow. I realize there hasn't been enough time for any changes to really take place, but its still very aggravating! hahah.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

GDA is back, but not as bad as it usually is. Three days after wc and it's about half as "strong". I think less light and higher no3 is doing the trick. My NO3 level does drop pretty quick. I've been adding about 8 ppm everyday (Fertilator) and it stays pretty constant around 10-15ppm....

Got some TRUE hairgrass in today. Can't wait for it to start growing in!!


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

I've started to see a trend in the GDA growth on the glass. It grows based on how the light hits the glass. For instance on the side it makes an upside-down parabola on the glass. 

Did a trim on some bolbitis in the tank, and took out some rocks which i think may have been adding to the PO4

Co2 is pretty high, and NO3 is high. Hopefully after my next wc i'll make more improvements.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

A similar form of GDA has developed in a 30 gallon that i have. Now, granted the flow in my 30 gallon is nothing close to what it should be, there are only a few similarities between it and the 75g. 

Here they are:

White pool filter sand & Flourite
FOOD!
Water (but i use ro/di so...)

So i'm thinking the food is compounding any other underlying problems that are causing the algal growth. I could try changing foods, but i'd rather get some phoszorb to try to bring down the phosphates... 

I'll do a wc tomorrow...


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## Duckweed Hunter (Jun 3, 2010)

Thar a 2 foods i can sagest .... they both have good ingredients
omega one and New Life SPECTRUM
i have good luck with them and my fish love them.
i dont know the fish food your using never tried it . good luck your Algae


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

A lot of the algae on the plants has died off i think due to the decreased light. I can still see the GDA coming back, but i got a large algae magnet scraper and might just be using that to clean the glass every day..


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Jason,

I am really glad to hear you are making progress, which of the suggestions have you implemented to date?


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Increasing NO3 dosage, increasing CO2 w/ addition of drop checker, removal of 1 5000K 54W T5ho bulb and reduction of fish food added. Like i said, the GDA is still there; did a water change on Friday and i can already see it starting to reappear. However, the algae on the plants has decreased dramatically. Also most notably, the growth rate has increased a lot. There is something to be said however for plants growing quicker when they're closer to the lights.

Also i added true Eleocharis parvula last week and i've already got runners!


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Jason,

GDA is a pain, I have it in one tank but not another and both have about the same amount of light, photoperiod, and ferts.....go figure. I tried the Method of Controlled Imbalances, but it didn't work for me even with my NO3 over 60 ppm; possibly because I only have a little over 2 WPG on that tank. I have found that I do get some decrease in GSA when it shows up by increasing my PO4 dosing.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Well, as for an update the GDA has gotten no better. I've actually noticed a pretty bad clouding that has been lingering for a few days in the water. Looks similar to GW but it fluctuates. 

I've started an "experiment" now of closing the blinds in the room with the tank. I'm exploring the possibility of sunlight coming in the side of the tank causing the GDA. It's not in direct sunlight but has ambient light all day. 

Also, i've been reading up on mineralized substrates, and all the ada substrate lines. I've always shied away from them because of the price, but am starting up a 10 gallon that i'll use that for. My main reason for bringing this up is to ask if switching my fertilizing method would help. As in minimal dosing into the water column and focusing on the substrate. Seems logical that the GDA wouldn't be able to thrive if the nutrients were only "available" to root systems instead of floating around in the column. 

Thoughts, suggestions, opinions??

One other thing: started to get some GSA which i've been trying to get so that i can possibly go the route of MCI, but hasn't proven widespread enough in the tank.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Jason,

It could be the ambient room light, definitely worth exploring! I sort of "forget" about ambient light because my tanks are in my office that only has one window and blinds so I have minimum ambient light. As the days get shorter, and the sun does not climb as high on the horizon, the light hitting the tank is probably different than it was even just a month ago. Maybe try a little black construction paper taped to the sides of the tank for a week or two and see if there are any changes?


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Yeah i'm definitely going to explore this possibility. Just thinking about the fact that there's enough ambient light for the algae to grow and use the nutrients but not enough for the plants to grow. Now that i think about it i used to leave the blinds closed a lot when i first got the tank (before the GDA).... 

I have no more algae anywhere else in the tank except the glass, so it would make sense!!


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Well, The ambient light wasn't doing it, or at least not enough to matter. I still have GDA, and it still laughs at me every night while i sleep. I'm still using RO water but have switched to substrate fertilizing. I'm also raising the temperature of the aquarium to 78F from 74-75 to see if it defeats the GDA. 

Perhaps one day someone will find a way to destroy it like GSA or BGA, but until then I'll continue to see my psychiatrist until the laughing stops.


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## goldier (Feb 13, 2010)

When I experimented with glutaraldehyde at 4ppm, GDA turned white after 1 day of dosing glut. I then scraped it off the glass, changed the water, and that was the end of it. I suspected high PO4 was the culprit in my tank. I now try to keep PO4 < 2ppm.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

How did you go about dosing the glut. You mentioned 4ppm, how did you arrive at that number.

Sounds like a great solution, but i'm trying not to get my hopes up as i have with other potential solutions! X) I'll go out and buy some excel today.

Thanks!


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## goldier (Feb 13, 2010)

Well, the reference on wiki says the glut (GA) biocidal range is 0.5 – 5ppm. I started out low at 2ppm GA because I had guppy fries and platy fries in the tank, and shrimp, and waited 2 days. Everything was fine. GDA didn’t get worse but they remained green. Then up leveled GA to 3ppm and waited for another 2 days. BGA became duller in color, all guppy fries died. Some platy fries died. Shrimp were OK. Finally at 4ppm dosing, GDA turn white next day. Few juvenile platys survive; amano shrimp survive, adult fish no problem. I was using 25% GA.

I attach my calculator on how I dosed GA at any ppm level. Hope you may find it useful. You can certainly plug in your tank size and % of GA solution and dose it directly from the stock bottle. I read that Excel is apprx 1.5% GA.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Unfortunately I haven't been able to get my hands on any excel locally, so i guess I'll be forced to order it. I really wanna try it out due to the results goldier got. 

On another note, after every water change i get a nice cloud in the water by the third day. Water is fine for the first two days after 40-50% reconsituted RO/DI wc but then it gets very cloudy with the onset of the GDA again. Could this be a different kind of GDA? I have to reiterate that i have never had it get to the point of flaking off, and it's always been a very very fine dust on the glass. I've started to notice the haze within the last month or two. For the last 2-3 weeks i haven't been dosing anything except CSM+B. I'm switching to root tablets, but that's not what's causing the haze... 

Help. again? I'm really starting to get tired of this.

Edit: I've also got GSA on a few parts of the glass which suggest i don't have enough po4 anymore...


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi flashbang009,
> 
> Are you sure, I didn't think is was possible to have a dKH higher than a dGH? dGH measures total hardness and should include the carbonates that dKH measures.


Roy, It is possible to have a KH higher than GH.
Three basic types of water:
GH > KH is Anion Ca2+, Mg2+ w/ Cation HCO3-, SO4 2-
GH = KH is Anion Ca2+, Na+ w/ Cation SO4 2-, HCO3-
GH < KH is Anion Ca2+, Na+ w/ Cation HCO3-, HCO3-

Ref: Baensch Book 1, page30


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

@Flashbang009: does the algae on your plants look like the one in the IMG linked picture?










Slimy, but doesnt rub off, doesnt smell?

Does your KNO3 have a funky odor?


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

I think the algae on the plants is similar. I'm not sure if the stuff on the plants is always slimy, but looks very similar, and does not rub off. I'll go check to see if my KNO3 has a smell.

Thing is though i haven't added any in a few weeks.


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