# Newbie help with algae control



## trodi (May 25, 2007)

I started a planted tank 12 days ago.

I have a 55 g/ 250 L tank

160 W of Fl for 11 hours

external canister filter with bio media cylinders and filter wool (recently added)

about 3-5 bps of CO2 (it's hard to determine in my bubble counter) (cylinder) injected into a DIY Diffuser from the output of my filter

I also use a gentle power head to help circulate the water

Substrate is Seachem Flourite

Not adding any fertilizers yet

Temp: 78F

PH fluctuates between ~6.0 with CO2 injection to ~6.4/6.5 without CO2 (when I take a reading in the morning when the CO2 has been off all night)
Kh: 7
Nitrate: 0.5
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: 0
no fish

I planted my tank with:
1 - Red rubin 2 - Ruffled Sword 10 - Subulata 2 - Hornwort 4 - Crypt petchii 2 - Anubias congensis 4 - Aquarium Lily 4 - Crypt spiralis 2 - Java Moss 2 - Wisteria 2 - Crispus 4 - RotalaI was concerned at first as I was unsure how some of the bigger leafed plants would do. After 2 days I saw there was already growth.Things are continueing to grow including I nice film of agae over pretty much everyting from plants to substrate. 

The algae is everywhere....

Since it's a ew tank I am unsur of how to proceed and my attempts at removing the algae so far has been futile.

he algae looks like I idenitfied the algae to be brush algae or hair algae. Almost all the leaves have a transulescent green film most of the top leaves have long strands of green algae about 2-5inches long. It looks like spider webs all over the tank. I remove it and it grows right back. I'll try to get some photos. 
The water is murkey also.

I am glad everything is growing but the tank is becoming overwhelmed with algae.

I am unsure if I shold try and order some of those Siamese algae eaters I have been reading about.

According to the Kh and PH reading, my CO2 concentration seems to be high.

I could use suggestions with the algae takeover
Thanks


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

first with out reading more then your first line, you have way too much light time for a newly planted tank.

When you first plant a tank for the first 2 weeka approx you should only do about 4 hours tops of light and usually no ferts and just let everything settle.

At this point you should immediatly cut back to about 2 or 3 hours and try to get it under control.

Now I will read the rest of your post and see what else can be done.


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

Ok everything else looks good, but cut your light time until it is under control.

Brush the algae off your plants and get it into the water then do about a 75% water change and do so probably every day until it is gone.

You should get some Seachem Excel and do a double dose on day one and treat a full dose daily until things are under control.

There will be other things to do that other members will tell you that I am not thinking of right now, so don't worry, you can take care of this, but start with the lights and do some major water changes.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

I would follow through with goalcreas' suggestions. Lol, as someone new to the hobby, I learned a lot from that post.

I had a breakout of green hair algae in my 2.5 gallon. Unfortunately cutting down lighting, 50% weekly water changes, manually removing as much as I could, using an amano and cherry shrimp(they ignored this algae eventhough they were not fed), extra dosing of fluorish excel for 8 weeks had little or no effect on the hair algae although it totally wiped out the other algae(algae growing on the sides of the tank). Interestingly, the hair algae only targeted certain mostly narrow leaved and bare root plants(ie., ambulia, java moss, etc.,) but not the wider leaved plants.

As far as solutions: I came to the conclusion that this was definitely a tank out of balance and a nutrient deficiency may contribute to an algae takover. Once you implement goalcres' suggestions and get some control over the breakout, I would suggest fertilizing using PPS as described here to ensure appropriate nutrients to stimulate plant growth to the point that algae will naturally recede as the plants fluorish.
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/pps-analysis-feedback/39491-newbie-guide-pps-pro.html
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/.../4241-pps-perpetual-preservation-systems.html
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...dback/30659-how-make-pps-classic-pps-pro.html

I cannot tell you if this will fix your problem(I am still experimenting with it myself), but I think it is worth a shot.

Another solution is to get yourself a algae cleaning crew consisting of a nerite snail or two(known to eat all kinds of algae including bga and hair algae) and perhaps some cherry or amano shrimp and bristlenose pleco or SAE to keep the other types of algae in check. Be sure to feed these once your algae clears so they don't starve.

You can also try and use algae to fight algae. Some claim that using Algae balls(Cladophora aegagrophila)
which look attractive and does not spread to plants, substrate, or driftwood will outcompete other types of algae and prevent it from getting a foothold in your tank.


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

Flag fish are said to love the hair algae.

PPS is the way I would go.


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## trodi (May 25, 2007)

Thanks guys for the reply and suggestions. I had the idea that I needed to alter some things but felt I didn't know where to begin and wanted to act quickly before it got any worse. I will try cutting the light and have already reset my timers to give the tank 3 hrs. I'll let you know how things go after several brush off's and water changes. 

I'm going to get some of those flag fish or siamese algae eaters ( I'll see which ones may be available). Should I add them right away or wait until there's more control in the tank?

Also I Just last night bought Seachem Flourish. I didn't use any but it looked like it would be good. This is quite different than seachem excel, right? I'll have to read up more on PPS. 

man that algae can be a monster. It took me by surprise. I have to say at least things are growing at least, no problems with that. Thanks again


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

trodi said:


> ...I'm going to get some of those flag fish or siamese algae eaters ( I'll see which ones may be available). Should I add them right away or wait until there's more control in the tank?
> 
> Also I Just last night bought Seachem Flourish. I didn't use any but it looked like it would be good. This is quite different than seachem excel, right? I'll have to read up more on PPS.
> 
> man that algae can be a monster. It took me by surprise. I have to say at least things are growing at least, no problems with that. Thanks again


Many fish stores check aquarium water for free. If you have a local fish store, get your aquarium water tested for Ammonia and Nitrites. If ammonia and nitrites are zero you are good to go and should have no problems adding the SAE or flag fish. You can also buy ammonia and nitrite test kits and test the water yourself. If ammonia and or nitrite is detected, I would avoid putting if he fish in as you would be exposing them to gill and respiratory damage. My guess is that if your plants are growing like crazy, then you should not have any detectable ammonia or nitrite readings, but I would get the water tested just to be sure.

Seachem Fluorish. If you are talking about the Seachem fluorish comprehensive, it will only give you trace elements. You need a comprehensive fertilization system to create a balance, which is what PPS does. The best thing about PPS is that it is far more cheaper in the long run than using Seachem Fluorish Comprehensive, it is easy, and based on what I read, it works excellent for most people. Some people use the Seachem fluorish for the trace element component of PPS so you can still use it if you want with PPS.

SeachemFlourish Excel: Is different than Seachem fluorish Comprehensive in that it provides an organic form of carbon that plants need to grow well. The only thing with using it is that users have reported that it negatively effects some plants(i.e., kills them), like elodea densa, vals, riccia. I found when I used it, my java moss began dieing, my elodea densa came apart at the seams and died, and my hornwort fell apart. Other than that, the java fern, ambulia, anubias and banana plant did not suffer. Also, I believe that Fluorish Excel will work better if your tank is already in balance with an appropiate fertilization program like PPS.

Regards


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

Also, if you buy some algae eating fish, do not feed them any other food, or they will tend to ignore the Algae.


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## trodi (May 25, 2007)

So after this process of removing the algae and doing water changes would be better to add the Seachem Excel?

Like you experienced Homer, my large leafed lillies seem unscathed in the algae outbreak it's my swords, hornwort, crypts, java moss that are covered. I find it difficullt to remove the algae from the java moss with out disrutping it and pulling it apart. 

I realized there are some snails that are lviing quite nicely in the tank that must have been stow aways wth the plants. 
Thanks again


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

trodi said:


> So after this process of removing the algae and doing water changes would be better to add the Seachem Excel?
> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...-problems/3806-flourish-excel-got-rid-all-mye
> Like you experienced Homer, my large leafed lillies seem unscathed in the algae outbreak it's my swords, hornwort, crypts, java moss that are covered. I find it difficullt to remove the algae from the java moss with out disrutping it and pulling it apart.
> 
> ...


I don't think it matters, but if you use excel as a means of trying to kill algae, the dead algae could add to the bio-load, so I would continue weekly water changes. Keep in mind that with every water change, you will need to add more excel than usual. I believe, it is 5Ml per 10 gallons with a 40% or more water change. This is a useful post on peoples' experiences using overdoses of excel to kill algae.
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...c-problems/3806-flourish-excel-got-rid-all-my

IME, I found this strategy, did nothing to the thread/hair algae, but in 2 months it did dissolve all the other algae. Also, depending on the type of plants you have, excel may negatively effect them.

I know what you mean about the difficulty trying to get the thread algae off some plants. I have pretty much given up doing this with the java moss. I am hopeful that with the addition of a nerite snail and using PPS-Pro to try and balance the tank, the algae will gradually disappear for good.


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

Not weekly water changes, daily or every other day while you are fighting this.
For excel, it can melt some plants, like Downoi and some crypts, others I am sure, but do not know all that it can affect.

You can spot treat with excel, get a syringe or one of those medacine droppers you use to give infants and youngsters the meds with, and take 1ml at a time and reach your hand in and blow it out right on that dreaded algae. You can do this 10 times if your max dose is 10ml, or 5 times if your max dose is 5ml, this way you get it where it needs to go and can be kept away from the sensative plants somewhat, of course it ends up in the water column, but it is not as bad.

If you do daily water changes, you should stay with double doses of the Excel, if you do every other day water canges, double dose after the change and single dose on day 2 and then double dose the next day after the water change.

Of course you do need the extra water changes the whole time you are fighting this algae, I wouldn't go to weekly water changes until after you get it nipped.


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## trodi (May 25, 2007)

I've been reading up on PPS. It seems like a good regiment for someone new to the hobby (like myself). Should I be concerned about any reactions to the fish. I have my boesmani Rainbows in a separate tank and I'm waiting to get the tank stable enough to begin to include them. I was wondering as they can sometimes be sensitive.

I see such a dramatic decrease in the algae growth after lowering my light to 3 hrs a day. Also, in just one brush off and water change things are beginning to feel more under control. I will continue to do the clean up water change regiment and I'll have to order some Excel.


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

I don't have any Rainbow experience, so can't help with that.
Glad to hear things are going better for you.
PPS is a good method and it is pretty simple, I think you will like it.


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## trodi (May 25, 2007)

I've lowered the light and done a water change and already things are feeling more stable. There is a significant reduction in the algase growth. Plants are still going strong.

I've been reading up on the PPS regiment and think I'll give it a try. I'm wondering about ordering the chemicals and wondering about http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/. any thoughts suggestions of where to get the chemicals.

I contacted a guy who sells flag fish from Athens Aquatics in NY, right next to where I work. He said he feeds them black worms and wasn't sure about what they would do for the algae. I've been reading that they are great with algae. I'm wondering what adding these fish to my tank will do in the long run. I have 3 Boesmani Rainbows, 2 columbian red fin tetras, 2 neon tetras (thinking of getting more as others had died not to long ago), and four zebra danios I'm thinking of throwing in to get things moving in the tank. The guy from Athens Aquatics will only sell me a min of 2 pair. I'm concerned about my bio-load. Unsure of when to start adding fish. As of right now i only have some snails in there and haven't begun yet to add fertilizers. Thoughts?


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

trodi said:


> .... I'm wondering about ordering the chemicals and wondering about http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/...


I have read lots of good things about aquariumfertilizer but if you can get the same chemicals locally from a hydroponics store in your city cheaper than that may be the way to go. I had to do a lot of phoning around before I found a shop that sold the chemicals for a fraction of what aquariumfertilizer was selling them for due to shipping charges.



trodi said:


> I contacted a guy who sells flag fish from Athens Aquatics in NY, right next to where I work. He said he feeds them black worms and wasn't sure about what they would do for the algae. I've been reading that they are great with algae. I'm wondering what adding these fish to my tank will do in the long run. I have 3 Boesmani Rainbows, 2 columbian red fin tetras, 2 neon tetras (thinking of getting more as others had died not to long ago), and four zebra danios I'm thinking of throwing in to get things moving in the tank. The guy from Athens Aquatics will only sell me a min of 2 pair. I'm concerned about my bio-load. Unsure of when to start adding fish. As of right now i only have some snails in there and haven't begun yet to add fertilizers. Thoughts?


IME, fish compatiblity is not always predictable. In the 7+ years that I have kept fish, I kept fish together that people said you should never keep together, they along got along fine and still do. I also kept fish that people said could be kept together and would never fight. Well, the "peaceful" fish gave chase to other fish and acted agressively towards them. Recently, after 3 months of having a beautiful powder dwarf gourami and keyhole cichild together(which people say are compatible), the keyhole got increasingly agressive towards the gourami and in the dead of the night chased it down and killed it. I found the dead gourami stuck to a corner(obviously it was trying to escape)with one of its eyes gouged out. It is like fish have their own personalities. You can probably help minimize the agression by not overcrowding/overstocking your tank, using lots of plants for ground cover and giving the fish lots of hiding places, trying to buy fish a mix of fish that are top, middle, and bottom dwellers so they are not competing for space, and trying to stick to fish that are similiar in size. Also try to stick to the one inch of fish per gallon to avoid overstocking. Sometimes people don't follow this rule, believing that a heavily planted tank helps compensate for overstocking and the rule does not apply. The problem is that they are still creating a situation of "overcrowding," which will lead to increased agression towards fish due to increased competition for space. Some fish may be severly injured by the skirmishes and will die of their injuries, others will get so stressed that they will quickly become sick and die. As far as adding fish, I would suggest getting your water checked for nitrites and ammonia before adding fish. I would start with the algae eaters, get the water tested every 2 weeks, then add a fish or two, and another one or two every two weeks until you are at capacity. Some say with a heavily planted tank, you can add all the fish right away. I would not do this, but the choice is yours.

Regards


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

check the new link in my sig.
just click on the bottom banner there and a new window will pop up for Pfertz.com

it was just launched by a member in my Arizona Aquatic Plants club.

He has spent many years developing and dedicated the last year perfecting and beta testing it out and it works wonders. It is designed to compete with the ADA and ADA style pump in liquid ferts and to make things easy as can be to the casual and beginner plant tank keepers up onto experts that just want easy.

This will be a little up front investment, I think $60 gets you the set, but it is 3 bottles one of each NPK and a 4th bottle for micros. This is designed to work similar to the PPS system but it is not the same by any means, just the fact that you will do one pump per 5 gallons of tank water (amount of water in your tank, not the rated tank size, so for a 20 gallon tank with substrate and rocks and plants you would end up with between 15 to 10 gallons or actual water) of each bottle the same time every day.

There is unsurpassed customer service along with this product. You can start out with by e-mailing your tank specs and a photo in the beginning and then weekly for a while until he gets you all dialed in.

Of course you don't have to do this at all, but it would be worth you checking out.

I have started using this product on a 20 gallon holding tank, plants only with a few nano sized fish in it, so no bioload to speak of. I am going full dose and after 5 days I see some perking up of the plants and no algae. In another 20 long which is lightly planted with a little more bio load, but not much, I have seen some good color and beleive it or not, I am loosing some of the algae I had been fighting for a few weeks, so, I am liking this product line so far, but it has only been 5 days so I will have to post back here for a couple of weeks to keep you updated.


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## vicpinto (Mar 27, 2007)

trodi said:


> I started a planted tank 12 days ago.
> about 3-5 bps of CO2 (it's hard to determine in my bubble counter) (cylinder) injected into a DIY Diffuser from the output of my filter


This translates into how many ppm of CO2? 
?
?
?
My thoughts exactly. Get yourself a drop checker to determine what you have for CO2. Adding CO2 helps with algae control.


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## trodi (May 25, 2007)

Yeah, I find regulating my Co2 level pretty difficult. My PH/Kh readings always indicate a pretty High ppm reading even if CO2 is off. 

When you state drop checker what do you mean?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

trodi said:


> Yeah, I find regulating my Co2 level pretty difficult. My PH/Kh readings always indicate a pretty High ppm reading even if CO2 is off.
> 
> When you state drop checker what do you mean?


http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...aquarium-projects/32100-diy-drop-checker.html
This is a long thread about drop checkers. The simple explanation is: put 4dKH distilled water (preferably made from a certified KH standard solution) in the bulb of a "drop checker" or Red Sea pH indicator, with enough pH reagent to get a strong color. Then stick that in the tank. Keep the water the drop checker green and you have about 25-40 ppm of CO2 in the water.


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