# JBJ vs. Milwalkee



## lemonblazer (May 4, 2004)

Is the jbj regulator really that much better than the milwalkee? Or is it just a matter of simple preference. The JBJ cost more but it doesn't mean I have to assume it's better. Or do I?....I'm gonna buy one or the other so constructive criticsm is appreciated.


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

LOL...revistiting a flame war topic eh 

Actually, if you hunt around a wee bit, you will find a topic covering this..I'm too lazy to find it for you 


I have both and like the JBJ for 2 reasons
1) built in check valvue
2) ability to use JBJ manifolds as direct attaachments for inection onto 2 or 3 tanks

It has a fixed pressure, but that doesnt effect either my high pressure diffuser or low pressure reactor since the needle valve allows for plenty of control.


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Check the search engine.

General info:
www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2579&highlight=jbj+milwaukee

www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1389&highlight=jbj+milwaukee

I own both JBJ and Milwaukee (as of last week). I like the Milwaukee quality. It seems to be built well. The solenoid runs completely cool. The JBJ is easy to set up in that you do not have to adjust output pressure - just the needle valve. The JBJ solenoid runs warm. The JBJ has a built in check valve - which is is helpful. The Milwaukee needs a check valve which you can buy on-line.

If a potential user is nervous of setting the output pressure, I would suggest JBJ. If not, then either will do just fine. With prices fairly reasonable these days, I would not suggest buying individual components and making your own set up. It's better to spend the time on pondering ones aquascaping abilities...

Andrew Cribb


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Tony,

Does the Milwaukee not also have the option of changing manifolds to service more than one aquarium?

Andrew Cribb


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

I am not sure. I just know JBJ offers a direct replacement on the signle needlle valve with a manifold that can have either 2 or 3 needle valves (each which can also have independent bubble counters)

For milwaukee, I bet you have to connect out of the stock needle valve which you need to then use wide open. then put the output tubing to a splitting manifold which on each of the outputs you can put an inline bubble counter.


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

I think Robert talked about this before, and the Milwaukee doesn't have the option of connecting manifolds.


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## bharada (Apr 17, 2004)

I don't see why you couldn't remove the needle valve from the Milwaukee and replace it with whatever 1/8"NPT(?) fitting you see fit. These are all just brass fittings, not custom built parts.

What you will do by replacing the needle valve is void the Milwaukee warranty.


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## lemonblazer (May 4, 2004)

hmm thanx for the link. Guess I'm gonna go with the JBJ (better safe than sorry)....Gonna go with an external reactor too. Didn't realize the powered ones have to be in the tank (got enough stuff to hide already)....

Gomer your right I am :wink: . I started this beacuse I was gonna get the Co2 combo from you know who. I was all excited about finding a system I could afford. Then all this talk started about it not being a JBJ regulator for sale. But I figured "big deal"...but I see its not that simple. Guess I'm gonna have to save a little more money (hell might as well go all out if I'm gonna get a pressurized system)

Anyone got any suggestions for places to get a Co2 setup for about 200 dollars (not counting the tank)...that includes a jbj regulator, Milwalkee controller, tubing, external reactor


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

I'm not sure of prices, but I got all my stuff (2 different setups) from Aquatic-store including the 3-way spitter. Tell Marc I said HI if you do 

If you don't want ot order from You KNow Who, or Aquatic store, there is still glass cages (no JBJ regulator) and I think aquabotanic (I think they carry the JBJ reg)


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## lemonblazer (May 4, 2004)

I see what I want at the aquatic store but I can't get the combo without buying the 3 bottles of PH solution, and 12 ft of tubing. Neither of which I need. Also I have to buy bubble counter fluid. I have no idea what that is do I need that?


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Aquabotanic carries the JBJ and it is free shipping to APC members... I know, I bought one 2 weeks back.

Andrew Cribb


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

I think if you drop the box to where it says +$____, then it adds it, otherwise you don't get it. It is a little odd.


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## www.glass-gardens.com (Jun 3, 2004)

Gomer said:


> I'm not sure of prices, but I got all my stuff (2 different setups) from Aquatic-store including the 3-way spitter. Tell Marc I said HI if you do
> 
> If you don't want ot order from You KNow Who, or Aquatic store, there is still glass cages (no JBJ regulator) and I think aquabotanic (I think they carry the JBJ reg)


I'm assuming you meant "Glass Gardens" since Glass Cages doesn't sell CO2 equipment.

I don't carry the JBJ unit yet, if anyone is in the market for a JBJ, there's only place to go as far as I'm concerned, Aqua Botanic. Tell Robert Crazy Eddie sent ya :shock:


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

oops...yup. I was refering to you  glass gardens...say that 10 x fast LOL


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## www.glass-gardens.com (Jun 3, 2004)

For the record, to add a manifold to the Milwaukee regulator, you remove the bubble counter and run the needle valve wide open. The problem is, the bubble counter is sealed onto the 1/8" NPT threads and it will most likely break when you try to remove it unless you are very careful and even then, however they are cheap to replace, I usually give them away. 

However, once it is off, any manifold, including I believe the JBJ unit will thread onto the needle valve as long as it's 1/8" NPT, although you may need to get a male to female adapter or vice vers.

Breaking the bubble counter in itself will not void the warranty as far as I know, in fact I've replaced them under warranty.


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## Jeff Kropp (Apr 25, 2004)

I think the most dissapointing aspect of both regulators is their solenoids. It's a shame that neither company offers a plain regulator with a compatable modular line of optional manifolds, needle valves, solenoids and bubble counters that could be combined to meet individual aquarists' needs. Now that would be a great product!
___
Jeff


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Well its all a matter of price, as to why they include the solenoid. Whoever came first, JBJ or Milwaukee did this to be the cheapest regulator on the market. Any other regulator made for the aquarium runs $80 to $100+ just for the regulator without solenoid or bubblecounter. Solenoids run $50 to $75...if you look at Aqualine/Aquamedic, Ultralife, Dupla, ADA, Eheim and so forth. The "all in one" regulator is greater percieved value for lower consumer cost. I doubt they would ever make the solenoid optional.

If you want a good regulator with a good needlevalve and no solenoid, and a separate bubblecounter, it will cost you much more. 80 something for the regulator, 18 to 20 something for a bubblecounter.

One thing worth mentioning, the JBJ has a metal check valve built into the bubblecounter, not a cheap plastic one that you would have to buy for the Milwaukee.


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## Jeff Kropp (Apr 25, 2004)

Robert Hudson said:


> ... as to why they include the solenoid...greater percieved value for lower consumer cost.


So it's now our problem that their marketing managers are not experienced aquatic gardeners and that the consumers of these products don't know any better? Yes, it's all about perceived value.
___
Jeff


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## BobAlston (Jan 23, 2004)

"$80 for a regulator".... come on Robert. May be technically true of "regulators made especially for aquariums" but most co2 gas regulators work just fine for aquarium use and cost half that or less. And Clippard valves are about $11-12 if you buy from a local Clippard dealer.

Bob :lol:


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## www.glass-gardens.com (Jun 3, 2004)

BobAlston said:


> "$80 for a regulator".... come on Robert. May be technically true of "regulators made especially for aquariums" but most co2 gas regulators work just fine for aquarium use and cost half that or less. And Clippard valves are about $11-12 if you buy from a local Clippard dealer.
> 
> Bob :lol:


A decent CO2 regulator can be had for less than $50.00 (including shipping) at numerous places, but when you add the cost of an adequate check valve, needle valve and bubble counter, you're getting into the range of a Milwaukee or a JBJ and then it comes down to features.

I would also take issue with Robert's erroneous assertion that the only check valves available for the Milwaukee are "cheap plastic". Obviously there are a number of very good check valves available for use with any CO2 regulator for extremely reasonable prices. "Plastic cheapos" are of course also available.

Both the JBJ and the Milwaukee are basically marketed as economical alternatives to more expensive equipment and the "plug and play" aquarists, both are essentially in my opinion of equal quality. I have never read anything anywhere to indicate that either one is better than the other.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

> $80 for a regulator".... come on Robert. May be technically true of "regulators made especially for aquariums" but most co2 gas regulators work just fine for aquarium use and cost half that or less. And Clippard valves are about $11-12 if you buy from a local Clippard dealer.


Yes, absolutely true, but if you were going to buy that, you wouldn't buy the Milwaukee ir the JBJ anyway...so whats the point? Troy is right, these lower priced high pressure industrial regulators or whatever you want to call them don't even have a needlevalve, much less a solenoid. Not everyone has the desire or mindset to disassemble a regulator to attach a needle valve and a solenoid. The average hobbyist wants a plug and play regulator. I have to walk some people thru how to install the JBJ!! All you do is srcew it on the tank! (and a few other simple steps) And Bob, I thought your favorite regulator was over $100?? I was trying to compare apples to apples so to speak in the same market.



> So it's now our problem that their marketing managers are not experienced aquatic gardeners and that the consumers of these products don't know any better? Yes, it's all about perceived value.


It has always been our problem! Everything is always driven by the market place. Both JBJ and Milwaukee think they have the cheapest price of any regulator on the market. Why would they go even lower? And it is a good deal! Troy is now selling the Milwaukee for what $65? With a solenoid? Thats a damn good deal! These manufacturers are not ripping people off! I used to get well over $100 for an Aquamedic regulator without a solenoid. Florida Driftwood is still selling the Milwaukee regulator for over $120!!! And I bet he sells as many as Troy does! Dave Gomberg sold his for more than the Milwaukee, and for a long time without a needlevalve! When he added a needlevalve to it it put his selling price over $100. Jeff, how come your buddy Dave is no longer selling regulators?



> I would also take issue with Robert's erroneous assertion that the only check valves available for the Milwaukee are "cheap plastic". Obviously there are a number of very good check valves available for use with any CO2 regulator for extremely reasonable prices. "Plastic cheapos" are of course also available.


OK, then name one! Name one brand name and where to buy it that is made of brass, copper, or any other metal material! Some guys sell Dupla, Dennerle, or Hagen, all plastic and all made for air lines. M3 used to sell a brass one and it was something like $30. They went out of business, for the second time.


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## www.glass-gardens.com (Jun 3, 2004)

A plastic housing doesn't mean anything is cheap, it's how it's constructed.

I think you need a vacation Robert


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## Jeff Kropp (Apr 25, 2004)

Robert Hudson said:


> It has always been our problem! Everything is always driven by the market place.


Yep thats why I mention it here.

Robert, you are one of our leading voices in this market place. My posts are in an effort to let you know that the solenoid should be an optional part of CO2 systems. Some of the distributers provide items like manifolds but none of them has a cohesive, expandable line of modular parts that are all compatable. You know full well that one planted tank is often never enough. In our local club we spend an alarming amount of time elaborating how tos and workarounds for solenoid units. In the end our most succesful gardeners just plug their solenoid into the wall, wasting electricity on an added value part they never use. Solenoids are not the simple plug and play hardware items that you claim, and controlers do not make CO2 enrichment any easier, they in fact make it more complex! Yes solenoid units may be outselling other products but it is not because our hobby demands those units; it is because this is all that aquarium targeted marketers offer us!
___
Jeff


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Jeff, the expert always has the simple and cheap option of buying a Taprite CO2 regulator and fitting it with needle valves as needed. When the maximum number of options is what is required, DIY is the answer. Necessity is the mother of invention.

As far as I remember, the Aqua Medic regulators are sold separately from the solenoids.

Andrew Cribb


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

I agree that I would prefer a solenoid-less option, and have just ordered a regulator without the solenoid, obviously for more money and not JBJ or Milwaukee. Now, that's ok with me, but it would be nice to have the JBJ available without the solenoid. I already spend too much on electricity, and too many things plugged into one outlet is dangerous....


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

> Robert, you are one of our leading voices in this market place. My posts are in an effort to let you know that the solenoid should be an optional part of CO2 systems. Some of the distributers provide items like manifolds but none of them has a cohesive, expandable line of modular parts that are all compatable. You know full well that one planted tank is often never enough. In our local club we spend an alarming amount of time elaborating how tos and workarounds for solenoid units. In the end our most succesful gardeners just plug their solenoid into the wall, wasting electricity on an added value part they never use. Solenoids are not the simple plug and play hardware items that you claim, and controlers do not make CO2 enrichment any easier, they in fact make it more complex! Yes solenoid units may be outselling other products but it is not because our hobby demands those units; it is because this is all that aquarium targeted marketers offer us!


I agree with you Jeff, for the most part, but I have no say in it! Manufacturers don't listen to me! I was just trying to explain it from their point of view. It is just like if I have a $40 plant assortment, and in an effort to sell more I throw in ten more plants for free. That increases the value of the plant package right? Then someone comes along and says "I don't want the extra ten plants, so can you take ten dollars off the price?" Ahhh...NO!

Thats how I look at it. The solenoid on the JBJ is just a freebie. And more and more people ARE using it. I am selling much more controllers now than I ever used to. I sold both Milwaukee and JBJ until I had to make a descion to carry only one. I found it difficult to adequately stock both, and so I chose the one that seemed to offer the best and made the most business sense. Before that I sold a ton of Aqua Medic, until Milwaukee hit the scene. When Aquamedic changed their design from Chrome plated to ABS plastic, that was all the reason I needed to join the Milwaukee band wagon. Before Aqua Medic, I was re-selling M3's regulator, until they went out of business. All these choices were based on what people were willing to buy and the quality of the unit. If someone comes out with a low priced modular, expandable regulator, I will be the first to sell it!

Plastic check valves...I am sure for all practical purposes they would hold up just fine, but if given the choice between a brass one and a plastic one, I would choose brass every time! I do need a vacation, desperately!


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## BobAlston (Jan 23, 2004)

Robert - you quoted my favorite regulator being $100?? You are probably referring to my web site which lists one of the Parker metering valves as the "best" based on the specs. Needle/metering valves - not regulator. Or you might be referring to the regulator I bought at Rapids Wholesale - regulator AND new 5 lb steel tank for $99.

As for needle valves, I still use my original Clippard MNV-4k2. I recently found a deal on a Swagelock valve but have yet to install it. Maybe on another tank. 'cause once the Clippard was set and locked-down I never touch it.

I do agree that the JBJ and Milwaukee are nice options for people new to CO2. It sure can be confusing. That's why the co2 section of my web site was established.

Bob
http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/AquaticPlants.htm#High Pressure CO2


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