# Swim Bladder/Euthanize



## theaznguy808 (Dec 9, 2010)

Hi APC,

Long story short,

My precious long finned ram that I got as a present got swim bladder disorder/disease at least a couple weeks ago. I tried several things:

feeding peas
Not feeding at all
water changes

Nothing seems to have worked. The ram floats to the top uncontrollably, has a somewhat crooked spine, and basically looks like a dead, floating fish, except it's not dead, and not...yeah.

Anyway, I was wondering if there was anything else I can try, otherwise, methods to euthanize it.

I'd rather not take a violent route, such as beheading. 
I'd rather not go out and buy clove oil, sorry.

Is there any other household items I can use? And no, I have heard that bleach basically burns the fish alive for x minutes.


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## killacross (Apr 29, 2010)

dump them in boiling hot (or ice cold) water kills instantly...or is painful for only a second


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## Error (Apr 16, 2004)

When I worked at my LFS we used to just catch them, put them in a bag in some water, and stick said bag in the freezer. Painless and silent...to the fish it probably feels a lot like going to sleep.

Boiling?!?!?! No way bro.

Just don't flush it!


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## killacross (Apr 29, 2010)

^^freezing to death (slowly) is actually one of the most painful ways to die


just FYI


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## neilshieh (Jun 24, 2010)

eghhh... killing a fish with a pot that you might cook out of? well the boiling method works, think about how fast raw salmon turns cooked. for the fish it'll be over in a second. 
freezing to death is not going to sleep. if i stuck you into a meat freezer its a slow death, but it'll be quicker for the fish because they loose body heat from water contact on the gills. 
i've personally would recommend that you just have a separate decent size container where the fish can live out the rest of its days. better than having to kill it yourself.


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## ObiQuiet (Oct 9, 2009)

I think a link to this article should be stickied at the top of this forum:

http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/euthanasia.html

It suggests baking soda or alka-seltzer.


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## killacross (Apr 29, 2010)

neilshieh said:


> eghhh... killing a fish with a pot that you might cook out of? well the boiling method works, think about how fast raw salmon turns cooked. for the fish it'll be over in a second.
> freezing to death is not going to sleep. if i stuck you into a meat freezer its a slow death, but it'll be quicker for the fish because they loose body heat from water contact on the gills.
> i've personally would recommend that you just have a separate decent size container where the fish can live out the rest of its days. better than having to kill it yourself.


i guess it would depend on the size of the fish...but yea..Ive done it...its not like I would kill the fish then cook dinner immediately afterwards with the pot 

and temperature drop of water is slow, which means a SLOW, PAINFUL death...water has the 2nd highest specific heat capacity (second only to ammonia) so it would take time to freeze to death...going into boiled water is much better...by the time they hit the water and float back up, they are already dead


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## Error (Apr 16, 2004)

This is all assuming fish feel 'pain' to begin with.

I only speak from experience.

Non-freezing methods cause the fish to thrash about frantically until it dies, obviously very upset because something is very wrong.

I didn't say it *was* falling asleep. I said it's probably a lot like it.

Your mileage, of course, may vary.


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## killacross (Apr 29, 2010)

^^I honestly dont know how to respond w/o saying something mean to that statement

so Ill ignore it and just comment that the rapid reaction to stimuli (including pain) is one of the characteristics of ALL animals

why would you think a fish couldnt feel pain anyway? dump ammonia in your tank and watch the fish jump out as it burns their sensitive membranes...or poke them with something sharp and theyll swim away to avoid it

the only reason you assume the fish doesnt suffer is because you cant watch them *suffer* while their cells crystalize and rupture in the freezer

dumping them in a rolling boil is much more "humane" [tho just slightly]


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## Error (Apr 16, 2004)

Fish are exothermic. This means their metabolism/circulation etc. is governed not by an internal heat source but by the temperature of their environment.

What this means for freezing is this: before internal crystallization of water occurs and cell walls rupture, around the 40-45 degree mark, a fish's body systems have slowed enough (mostly stopped actually) that it is in a kind of coma. This is if it isn't dead already. Generally, they're usually dead at 35-45 degrees, you don't even really need to freeze them. You can refrigerate them instead.

Even if they do feel pain (as you and I know it, and which science hasn't proven positively or otherwise) there will be no perception of it in such a case.


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## Franco (Jun 25, 2010)

I've always just dropped them in water with a lot of ice in it and they appear to be killed instantly. For snails, the garbage disposal works quite well.


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## neilshieh (Jun 24, 2010)

oh, and in case you don't know. DO NO FLUSH YOUR FISH!!!! this ain't finding nemo.
either way the fish will not be happy dying and you'll still end up with a dead body. i personally don't really like freezing because the last time i froze an otto for the petsmart refund, i couldn't find it when i went to return it O_O i hope my mom didn't cook with it.
if you google this subject, they recommend using clove oil which puts them to sleep, then you can do whatever the hell you want without much of a guilty conscience. 
or you could just pour in a whole bunch of vodka and get them hella wasted, so they don't even realize they die. lol!


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## dodgefreak8 (Jul 26, 2006)

the most humane way to let your fish go is to overdose them with clove oil and water mixed. they just go to sleep


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

It is violent, but fast. Throw the fish against a wall or the floor as hard as you can.


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## neilshieh (Jun 24, 2010)

-.- the methods keep getting more violent. more violent=quicker, painless


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## LiveHumanSkeleton (Jun 25, 2010)

HeyPK said:


> It is violent, but fast. Throw the fish against a wall or the floor as hard as you can.


Really? I mean, there are ways that can be termed "painless" to the fish, but I wouldn't like that image on my conscience.


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## neilshieh (Jun 24, 2010)

that'd be one hell of a concussion if the fish doesn't die.


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## LiveHumanSkeleton (Jun 25, 2010)

Exactly, with such a method you can't really gauge how much force is necessary to produce a quick death. You're likely to go overboard and put a hole in your wall just to make sure the deed is done.


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## neilshieh (Jun 24, 2010)

well so far, the clove oil seems good, but the problem would be what do you do after it's asleep? you could freeze it, but then you might as well have frozen it in the first place. as much as i don't like to say it, the boiling method actually seems the fastest, and convenient.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

> You're likely to go overboard and put a hole in your wall just to make sure the deed is done.


Better aim at the floor, then. I don't think you can put a hole in that.


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## Error (Apr 16, 2004)

Sometimes, if they're small enough, I just swallow them.


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## onefang (Apr 10, 2011)

Error said:


> Sometimes, if they're small enough, I just swallow them.


LOL! Awesome.

I've used 50/50 mix of vodka and water. They seem to drift off without issue. Then I drink a shot in their honor(not the one they were in).


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## aquaman555 (Mar 22, 2011)

HeyPK said:


> It is violent, but fast. Throw the fish against a wall or the floor as hard as you can.


Yea that or just lay the fish on concrete outside and drop straight onto the fish either a brick or cinder block depending on size. Don't throw the brick, just straight drop it and it will pancake the fish instantly. Then get the garden hose out and hose it down the driveway or let the neighborhood cats make a meal out of it. Works like a charm!!!


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## Error (Apr 16, 2004)

Beheading them with a butter knife is fun. Or giving them to your kids to 'take care of'. Or using them as bait.

Get creative; that's my vote.


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## aquaman555 (Mar 22, 2011)

Somebody call PETA!!!


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