# What else can I do?



## Amaralluis (Oct 21, 2005)

Hi ,

It's been a couple weeks now that I've been adding ferts to my tank, and although it has improved I am still seeing algea growth.
It's the green stuff that grows on the plants, GBA maybe??

Here's my current specs:

75gal
120-140Watts light (dont know for sure because I am OD 4 T8's)
10 hours of light.
Ph currently is 7.0-7.1? according to hagen test kit
Phosphate between 2.5 and 5 - hagen test kit, but definetly closer to 2.5 than 5.
Gh 220
kh 170 (all hagen test kit)
I am using pressurized co2 (otherwise my ph is around 7.8)
The only test kit I dont have is for nitrates so I dont know what it is right now, but I plan on getting one today.

Ferts I am dosing 3X week:
3/4 KNO3
3/16 (pinch) kh2po4
1/4 k2so4
and on alternate days dosing 60ml of nutrafin plant gro iron. (will switch to plantex as soon plant gro is done in a couple days)

As I said, it is much better that it was before I started dosing, but I am still seeing algae growth.
So what else can I do to eliminate growth?

Thanks for all the help.


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## Jason Baliban (Feb 21, 2005)

Green as in fuzzy hairy, or green as in green spots? Looking at what you dose, it is probly spot. I would drop your nitrate to 1/2tsp. Also, without a NO3 test kit, you cannot take into consideration that there might be NO3 in your tap already. I would also get your ph to about 6.8 or a bit lower.

Hope this helps

jB


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I suggest you take a water sample from the aquarium, let it sit out in a shallow cup for a few hours, check the PH of that water. It should be about 1 ph unit higher than the in-tank PH. If it is, you probably have enough CO2, but if not, try increasing the CO2 you are injecting. If you don't have fish or shrimp in the tank you can just increase the CO2 anyway - otherwise watch for the fish being distressed by an increase in CO2, and back off a bit if they are.


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## Amaralluis (Oct 21, 2005)

Thanks for the sugestions.

I did try to raise the ph and the results were catastrophic as I lost some shrimp, so I dont want to mess with it anymore.

As for the algae I do have green spots on the glass (much less than before)
I also have a piece of driftwood that is starting to get covered with a green coat. It actually looks nice and I dont mind it.

The algae in the plants are fuzzy and hairy if I let it grow. 


I bought a NO3 test kit today and I will be testing the water.
The ideal is 20ppm right?

Cheers


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## iris600 (Feb 12, 2004)

you don't want to raise the PH, you want to lower it. You can use additional Co2, peat filtration, or if your tank is small buy RO water.... or get an RO unit.


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## Amaralluis (Oct 21, 2005)

I am sorry, I was in a rush when I wrote my previous post.

I meant that I tried to raise co2 and had ph at 6.8.
Thats when I lost some shrimp in the process and quickly did a water change to normalize the situation.


Anyway I got the hagen Nitrates test kit.
It is a pain trying to determine exactly what the amount of nitrates are.
From what I can tell from the colour, this evening it sits anywhere from 10ppm to 20ppm but clearly nearer to 10ppm.

I am dosing 3/4tsp kno3, should I raise it to 1tsp seeing that my phosphate is at least 2.5ppm??


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Green spot algae responds pretty quickly to increased PO4 - meaning an increase in PO4 can cause that algae to reduce in size or vanish quickly. PO4 test kits, at least those we usually have, are not known to be very accurate. So, I suggest trying an increased dosage of KH2PO4 for a few days. One thing that keeps bothering me about your problem is that your light level is low enough that all of your fertilizers should be high enough. Another is that I don't know what is in the nutrafin plant grow iron stuff. That may be the problem - too little of some of the micros.


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## Amaralluis (Oct 21, 2005)

hoppycalif said:


> I suggest you take a water sample from the aquarium, let it sit out in a shallow cup for a few hours, check the PH of that water. It should be about 1 ph unit higher than the in-tank PH. If it is, you probably have enough CO2, but if not, try increasing the CO2 you are injecting. If you don't have fish or shrimp in the tank you can just increase the CO2 anyway - otherwise watch for the fish being distressed by an increase in CO2, and back off a bit if they are.


I did this, took put some water in a container, tested ph, 7.0 and let it sit overnight.
This morning ph was at 7.6.

How does this mean?

For light, I have two t8 light fixtures, one bulb is od4x, the other three are od2x. whatever wattage that comes down to. 

You can find info on the plant gro stuff here : http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/aquatic/product.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=121&PROD_ID=01076750010101

How much do you sugest increasing kh2po4 to?

I dont know what else I can do to get rid of algae.


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## Amaralluis (Oct 21, 2005)

Weird thing happened today!

My front glass tank got covered with green spot algae.
All I did today was to add 3caps os plant gro for micro.
Nothing else. Also found a dead shrimp. Quickly checked ph and it is still at 7.0.

I wonder what happened for the algae bloom?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

The increase in PH from 7 to 7.6 means you need some more CO2. You should be seeing about a 1.0 rise when you do that test, so the daytime PH from adding CO2 should be about 6.6. That gives you 30 - 40 ppm of CO2, which is about the maximum not to harm the fish. 

I would try about 1 1/2 times the PO4 you are now adding, to see if it helps with the green spot algae, if you have that, and not a uniform green dust algae on the glass.

To really get rid of the algae you have you need to clean up as much of it as you can, even tossing plants that are heavily infested, remove any dead fish or plants, do a 50+% water change, then make any changes in CO2, PO4, etc. For sure I would raise the CO2 level - as long as the fish aren't gasping at the surface it shouldn't do any harm and it does make it easier to stop the algae.


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## Amaralluis (Oct 21, 2005)

I am not too keen to touch the ph by increasing co2.
As I said I did that and ph was at 6.8 and I lost a few shrimp and some were rare shrimp like ninja shrimp. 
And that is the problem I did not see any fish gasping but unfortunately the shrimp dont have the same beahviour and I dont know if they are okay until it is too late.
So I am a bit weary messing up with co2 for now. 


You raise an interesting point, now that you mention it I would say that it looks like a green dust of algae in the glass.
It is true that they ar ejust tiny small spots, but lots of them and it does look like dust.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Amaralluis,

I read your other thread concerning your ferts. I suggest you read John N's post about the EI method:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/science-of-fertilizing/15225-estimative-index-dosing-guide.html

If you have and other ?'s after that, post them here.


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## Amaralluis (Oct 21, 2005)

I based my dosing on that post.
But because of the problems I am having with the shrimp I have been trying different dosages.

Right now I am only using 1/2tsp Kno3 and 2 pinch spoons kh2po4 and 1/4 k2so4.

I am still having problems with the shrimp. Yesterday I found another shrimp laying on the bottom belly up.
Quick water change and he recovered. But I guess it died anyway during the night as I found one dead this morning.
At the same did a Nitrates test with my Hagen test kit (I know, unreliable) but it still tested below 10ppm.

Now, I think it's safe to say that it is not because of co2 levels, because I've kept it at 7.0ph.

The only thing that I did yesterday was to dose the regular dose of plantex.

What I've done, I mixed 250ml with 1tablespoon and 1 1/2 teaspoon of plantex based on another thread that I started : 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/water-parameters/28789-math-chem-quizz-plantex-b.html

and drop 10ml every other day.

I found the shrimp a couple hours later on the bottom.
So it could be that the plantex solution is too much, maybe too much iron or maybe too much copper.

It makes sense, but here is another kicker to this mystery, this was the first week I am dosing plantex. Before I was using Hagen nutrafin iron solution and was using their instructions. And still I have shrimp deaths.
Regardless I am going to dose only once 10ml and see how things go.

Finally the only thing left is Macros.
Because I am only having problems with the shrimp at the end of the week, it means that the water is poisened with something enough to kill the shrimp.

Am I dosing too much Kno3? Phosphate? Potassium??


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

In reading through this thread I have a couple of questions:

- how densely planted it the tank?
- how long has it been setup?
- are you using a dechlorinator product? which one?

With that level of lighting, your dosing seems ok (assuming a lot of plants).

One thing that comes to mind, hence my questions above: ammonia can trigger algae growth and at pH above 7.0 it can be dangerous to the fauna, shrimp being particularly sensitive...


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

I think Laith has a very good point. I would have to think ammonia is more likely causing harm than your CO2, especially if water changes seem to help. If you have a low plant load, high fish/shrimp load, and the tank isn't well established this could easily be your problem.


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## Amaralluis (Oct 21, 2005)

I've had my tank for more than a year running.

I've only started dosing a couple weeks ago,s ame for pressurized co2.
The co2 tank is pretty much empty, so I wonder if that is not a factor as well.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Your pressurized CO2 tank ran out in two weeks? A 5-lb tank should last several months for most aquariums. You either have a leak, or I'm not understanding. Also, it's either empty or not. "Pretty much empty" doesn't make sense. You're either getting CO2 out of it or you're not.


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

Just to be sure, it may be an idea to test for your ammonia levels... at least then that can be eliminated. I've seen tanks that have been set up for years that for various reasons suddenly loose stability and get ammonia spikes...

So how densely planted is it? and what dechlorinator do you use?


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## Amaralluis (Oct 21, 2005)

Amonia test have always shown zero using hagen test kit.

I will test for amonia next time I see a belly up shrimp.

I am using well water, not city water.

I would say that my tank is fairy densely planted. I trimmed quite a bit today. 

Again I did a large water change and prunned the plants so they wouldnt cover the whole tank.
I also upped ph and when I tested it it was a 6.6.
Add the regular fert dosage.
And guess what I found within couple hours, a bamboo shrimp laying on the bottom almost belly up.
Weird stuff.


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

Strange...

I assume that because you're using well water you don't use a dechlorinator.

Which leads me to wonder whether well water can have high concentrations of heavy metals? I have no idea if this is possible but a dechlorinator also binds potentially harmful heavy metals. Maybe your well water parameters changed?

Another thing to try is to do your normal water change and then *don't* add your ferts. See how the shrimps react.

Where did you get your nutrients (KNO3 etc)? I wonder if there could have been a mistake somewhere and you don't have what you think you do (or they're mislabeled)?


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## Amaralluis (Oct 21, 2005)

It is a possibility that I have the wrong ferts, but the lable clearly says what they are and their composition. I bought in a hydroponics store.

The problems only arise at the end of the week, which means there is a spike of something that bothers the shrimp.
This week I am going to cut in half the amount of micro traces to see the results.

My c02 tank is almost empty and I am having it refilled today, it could also be the cause that is affecting them.
I know for a fact that if ph is lower below 7.0 the shrimp have problems with it.
Which is strange because other people say that they have no problems with lower ph


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