# Aquascaping Troubles...



## tinypleco (Sep 21, 2008)

As the title says, I am having some trouble aquascaping. I have a bad case of "collectoritis". Luckily I have many 10 gallon tanks hanging around to spread it out on. I have finally decided to take the plunge into making an actual aquascape. I had put the rocks (they weren't exactly the ones I wanted) in originally, because I had a vision of what I wanted to do.

I've decided to use one of the 10 gallon tanks that has most of my favorite plants. The specs are:

Size - 10 Gallons(ish) (20"x12"x11")
Filtration - A cheap HOB filter I had laying around
Lighting - 2-13 watt CFLs (6500K) = 26 watts = 2.6 wpg
Substrate - Seachem Flourite (planted) + pool filter sand (non-planted)
CO2 - None, Excel after water changes
Fertilization - None
Fauna - 
- 3 Orange Platies
- 4 Black Widow Tetras (used to be 6, but 2 died in an accident)
- A handful of Ghost Shrimp
Flora -
- Cabomba caroliniana (Green Cabomba)
- Cryptocoryne wendtii (possibly undulata?)
- Microsorum pteropus (Java Fern)
- Vesicularia dubyana (Java Moss)
- Hygrophila corymbosa 'compact' (Compact Hygrophila) - New leaves are getting a red colour! 
- Aegagropila linnaei (Marimo Moss Ball)
- Anubias barteri var. nana (Anubias Nana)
- Lilaeopsis brasiliensis (Micro Sword)
- Echinodorus bleheri (Amazon Sword)

Well, here is a picture of what the tank looks like today, not exactly my vision...










As you can see, it pretty much is just a big, undefined, blob of green.

My plans -

- Possibly adding some Otocinclus sp., for the algae on the walls (Could I do this safely?)
- Removing the Amazon sword after it grows to the surface and selling it back to my LFS
- Removing the Java moss
- Getting bigger (Small fist-size) rocks for the separation between the flourite and sand
- In the final scape, I will turn the driftwood so it isn't leaning over, like how it is in the picture
- I am going for a "Forest to Meadow to Beach" look
- Might replace the lilaeopsis for some dwarf hairgrass, because it isn't looking to hot
- Remove the Cardamine lyrata I am reviving after testing its ability to withstand incandescents (its on the sand)

Here is my AquaSketch of what I want it to look like:
(Note: I made it 5x bigger and when viewing, view it from the opposite side, and lower, so the micro sword looks like 1 big patch)

http://www.theaquatools.com/content/view-your-sketch&num=11237

I used some different plants on the program to make it easier, but I will be using the same plants I mentioned. The Lilaeopsis isn't going to be one big square, thats all going to be filled in. Also, Aquasketch still makes it look like a big green blob .

Anyways, what do you think?
Give me all the constructive criticism you've got!


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

Why are you removing the java moss? It is such an easy plant to grow.

Not my cup of tea but looks like some good aquascapes that I have seen.

Love the sketch. It looks what is called a right angle scape. I would add some lava rock to create depth. Make a small drop off, up a bit where the rocks are, and angle it towards the corner. Then put sand on the drop off.

The tree looks like prehistoric animal. Wish I could find something like that.


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## tinypleco (Sep 21, 2008)

dawntwister said:


> Why are you removing the java moss? It is such an easy plant to grow.
> 
> Not my cup of tea but looks like some good aquascapes that I have seen.
> 
> ...


Thanks 
I think I would like to remove the java moss because I like the look of the bare branch, it has a rawer feel to it. Also, I don't get exactly what you mean by the "drop off", in the clump of plants on the right?


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

Like a cliff on the California Beaches, a drop off from the area near where you have rocks, which divide the area for sand, to the corner.


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## tinypleco (Sep 21, 2008)

Where would the cliffs be? All along the back? At the base of the driftwood? In the Lilaeopsis?


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

tinypleco said:


> Where would the cliffs be? All along the back? At the base of the driftwood? In the Lilaeopsis?


This is just a beginning. But I am going to have the area the plants raised towards the right corner. There will a drop off in front of the sags.
http://www.theaquatools.com/content/view-your-sketch&num=11239

Nifty site you used to do your drawing. I am still learning how to use it.


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## tinypleco (Sep 21, 2008)

Ooh ok, I think I get what you mean now. That would be a pretty cool idea actually, I will have to see if there is any proper sized lava rock around. Aquasketch is an neat program, the only downside is that you can't erase individual plants.


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## tinypleco (Sep 21, 2008)

Anyone else??


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

Update?

I finished my tank but it didn't turn out as I thought it would. I think to get some height in the tank it would be best to use eggcrates or wire mesh with similar holes. I was told the eggcrates, which look like cross stitch material, are in the light section. I used lava rock and it didn't get slopes up as high as I had wanted it to be.


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## Malawi (Oct 11, 2008)

I think it looks prtty good, but would lay down the heater, so that it's hidden behind the root.


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

Can't wait to see the update


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## tinypleco (Sep 21, 2008)

Hey guys! 
The lights are off in the tank right now, but I promise that I will give you guys a picture update when they go on. A lot of has been changed around (kinda) in this tank. I will give you guys all the details with the picture update.

Dawntwister - Wow, thats actually looking really neat! When I go on holidays I would love to do something like that.

Malawi - I'm not sure if I want to move it, just because I think the cord might be more distracting in the end. I will see what it looks like though.


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## tinypleco (Sep 21, 2008)

Update!

Current Fish/Plants List:

Fish - 
- 3 Orange Platies
- 4 Black Widow Tetras
- 1 Oto (read more below)
Plants -
- Cryptocoryne wendtii
- Microsorum pteropus
- Hygrophila corymbosa 'compact' 
- Aegagropila linnaei
- Anubias barteri var. nana
- Sagittaria subulata
- Bacopa monnieri
- Pistia stratiotes
- Lemna minor

Here is what the tank looks like:










To combat my algae issues I Added 3 otos. 2 of them died in the first couple days and then I realized that my algae issues aren't really too bad (a little green spot algae on the glass and a little bit of bba on a couple crypt leaves). Anyways, now I am left with 1 oto which I am just going to keep, he doesn't really do much algae eating, but he is cute so he can stay. I ended up adding some sagittaria subulata and some bacopa monnieri, I think I may take those out though. I might just use some rotala rotundofolia and a different carpeting plant. I'm going to take out the java fern and the anubias and replace them with more Cryptocoryne wendtii. I also added some water lettuce and duck weed to suck up the excess nutrients. The duckweed actually seems to be growing the worst out of all the plants though. I think it gets eaten by my black skirts when they are hungry (I've seen them eat pieces).

Any other advice/constructive criticism?


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

I like the rocks separating the sand from the pebbles. I think it's much better. You might want to cover the rocks with moss. It would look nice. DO you think you might want to put some foreground plant s in so that your not left with so much visible substrate. It would look nice that way.


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## tinypleco (Sep 21, 2008)

Thanks Tex Gal!

I forgot to add some points to my last paragraph. 1) I plan to put more black rocks in there to create a more defined line/seperation. 2) I hope the sagittaria will send out runners in my tank, creating a short carpet that isn't 6 inches tall. My light levels are kind of high, so the plants *should* be smaller. I might cover the rocks in moss, I don't want them to get lost in the carpet though (if it forms).


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## fwdixon (Dec 11, 2008)

AM I the only one who can't see any of the photos? Sounds like a really interesting scape, just wish I could see it, lol.


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

He is talking about the plans layed out at this site:
http://www.theaquatools.com/content/...etch&num=11237

It was on the 1st page.


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

He is talking about the plans layed out at this site:
http://www.theaquatools.com/content/view-your-sketch&num=11237

It was on the 1st page.


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## tinypleco (Sep 21, 2008)

I think he means my actual photos. I'm just using photobucket, so you should be able to see them...


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

I reread the 1st thread. I can't believe you got everything growing so well with these lights - 2-13 watt CFLs (6500K). For others, whom are experienced told me that 2-13 watt CFLs (6500K) = 26 watts = 2.6 wpg is not true. The wpg rule is based on T12 bulbs, which are rarely used since most of the light does not reflect into the tank.

Your tank proves that plants grow in any light and that you can't just go by the facts. There are so many variables in a tanks ecosystem that you do best experimenting and finding out what works for your tank

http://www.barrreport.com/general-p...ting-bulbs-plants-2.html?highlight=wavelength


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## tinypleco (Sep 21, 2008)

dawntwister said:


> I reread the 1st thread. I can't believe you got everything growing so well with these lights - 2-13 watt CFLs (6500K). For others, whom are experienced told me that 2-13 watt CFLs (6500K) = 26 watts = 2.6 wpg is not true. The wpg rule is based on T12 bulbs, which are rarely used since most of the light does not reflect into the tank.
> 
> Your tank proves that plants grow in any light and that you can't just go by the facts. There are so many variables in a tanks ecosystem that you do best experimenting and finding out what works for your tank
> 
> http://www.barrreport.com/general-p...ting-bulbs-plants-2.html?highlight=wavelength


Thanks for the article dawntwister. I probably have a considerably lower number for wpg, but I go by 2.6 anyways. I know what my limits are and as you can see I'm not really growing any "high-light" plants. It is a very confusing topic though. At one point I was growing rotala rotundifolia under incandescent lights, they were growing quite well and only a couple plants had dwarfed leaves. I think during this time the plant mass (originally 3 bunches) probably tripled, although, I never pruned them and I only did water changes once every 3 or so months. The tank had 5 zebra danios and the water was tannin-stained too! I have no idea how the danios survived, but I'm assuming that my minimal feeding and large plant mass had something to do with it. It was just a little 10 gallon like this. They were growing like this for about 10 months and I would like to add that none of the stems were not what I would consider "leggy". Maybe I just have magical plant growing powers! (This seems to apply to algae too.[smilie=t


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

I see Cabomba caroliniana which doesn't grow in my tank. Something is magnifying your light or you have some natural light coming in, for the light looks like aprox. 3 wpg.

Oh I found at aqua tools you can remove 1, etc. plants by clicking Ctrl and left clicking the 1 to remove.


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## tinypleco (Sep 21, 2008)

Oh yes, the Cabomba...the only plant to ever die under my care. In the new photos it isn't there anymore.

Thank you so much for the tip on aquatools!! That is incredibly helpful (now I don't need to restart a design after messing up).

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays!


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## jerrybforl (Jul 22, 2008)

26 watts divided by 10Gallons is 2.6 watts per gallon which is good as long as you have good reflectors on the fixtures. the aquarium looks great especially after you moved the focal point off center.


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## tinypleco (Sep 21, 2008)

Thanks jerrybforl!


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## tinypleco (Sep 21, 2008)

Hey Everyone,

I did a bit of plant switching today, so you guys get an update!










It is a bit cloudy from planting, but besides that it doesn't really look different. I put in some more Sagittaria in, I hope I get runners soon! Also, I switched the Bacopa monnieri for some Micromeria brownei, in the picture its hard to tell, but in person it looks better. Since I have much difficulty planting stem plants, I can never get them to look even or "lush", but after a few trimmings it should look more filled in. I never mentioned this, but when I first planted the Bacopa it wouldn't stay in the substrate, so I took some of the sand and put a thin layer over the flourite, so the plants would stay put. Well, it worked, except now I have to have my filter in the middle of the tank. I guess it isn't that bad, I don't really notice it. By the way, that driftwood is looking more and more like a unicorn everyday, it has a brown algae mane!

Oh yeah, my Oto decided to come out today, so I took a picture! Only, one of my black skirts just HAD to get in the picture too.










Thanks For Looking!


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