# Help me make the switch!



## DWIZUM (Jun 8, 2006)

Hello everyone:

Brand new member here, and I'm sure I will be asking questions that have been covered before. I've been lurking for 4 or 5 months and searching, reading, etc as much as I could. Figured I'd start a post to introduce myself and ask a few basic questions - hopefully people don't mind that many of these have been covered before, but I'm trying to collate/summarize things I've read recently in my own brain and it's getting congested up there! Bear with me, this is gonna get long winded I fear!

Anyways, I've been keeping fish tanks in one capacity or another for 15 years or so. My first few were very basic community FW tanks with fake plants, etc. I moved very quickly to fish-only marine tanks, and again quickly into reef tanks, which is where I've been for about a decade. To be totally honest, I'd always dismissed or looked down upon *all* FW tanks, considering them "simpler" (and therefore somehow inferior to) than reef tanks. But looking at really well done planted tanks for the last year or two has me stunned, they can be simply breathtaking.

I took down my last reef (a 125g, mostly SPS, with tons of light and flow) about 4 months ago, and am starting to gear up to make the switch to a planted freshwater tank. Most of the questions below relate to making the switch from reef to FW planted.

I've heard some people comment that reefkeeping and freshwater planted tanks require a similar level of expertise/money/headaches/maintenance/etc, but from what I've seen so far, it seems like a planted tank is going to be much more straightforward and cheaper.

I have an empty 60g tank and stand and piles upon piles of other equipment that might or might not be used for my new venture. Here's where the questions start:

1) Lighting: It seems like FW planted tanks generally run much lower light levels than reefs (my 125 had several 400w metal halide bulbs above it). I have a bunch of stuff laying around that would fit on the 60g: a dual-bulb NO flourescent fixture, a single-bulb (96w) compact flourescent fixture, and a pair of two-bulb VHO fixtures. What combo of those would people reccomend? I am leaning towards one or two of the dual-bulb VHO's and leaving the rest off.

2) Water movement: My reef tanks have always had 20 or 30 times tank volume per hour (i.e. a total of about 4,000 gph in the 125). I have plenty of powerheads to create movement in the 60g FW planted tank, but I don't want to do too much. What's the general rule of thumb for total flow? This is something I don't think I've seen a clear answer on, but in general it seems like the requirements are much lower than in reefkeeping.

3) Filtration: I'm hoping I can make do with what I have, but I don't think any of it would be ideal. I have a big wet/dry (Amiracle maxi-reef 200), a hang-on power filter (a big one from Penguin or something like that), and a few in-tank "powerhead" filters, the kind that basically just hold media and snap on the input of a powerhead. Any suggestions based on that list of available components? I've read that the wet/dry would be bad because it would allow CO2 to escape back into the atmosphere. Same for the hang-on, since it creates lots of surface disturbance. Do I really need much more than the in-tank powerhead filters, if my stock list is reasonable and I have plenty of plants for nutrient uptake?

4) Substrate: Seems like there are more opinions/options/debates here than in reef-dom, which is hard to imagine! Seems like most options are expensive, too. I'd like to avoid blowing the budget. In reefkeeping, it was common to use aragonite-based playsand ($5 for a big huge bag at the hardware store), because it was the same thing the pet shops sold ($25 for a little tiny bag). Are there similar substitutions available for FW? I'd like to save money here so I have some loot to spend on a CO2 system and livestock, so $20 to substrate my tank with something generic instead of $100 for a few bags of expensive stuff would be great.

5) CO2 - my mind is pretty much made up here, I'm planning on a full-fledged pressurized tank system, unless $$$ disappears getting other stuff - even then, I'll probably just delay the tank until I have means to purchase said system. One thing I've seen on here over and over again is that it's nearly a requirement for a successful tank with good growth. Anyone have comments about that?

6) Online shopping - where do people go? There really aren't any decent places locally. A few that have some anemic looking plants next to rows of goldfish and guppies, mostly. There is a really awesome place in a town about 3 hrs from here, but that's unrealistic. Where do people typically shop online for dry goods and livestock (plants at least)?

Phew. That's it for now. I'm really looking forward to this. Gotta paint the stand and get all these other odds and ends sorted out before the tank goes up though.

One last thing - if you could make a concise "top three" list of suggestions for success in this hobby, what would it be?

Thanks in advance!


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Hey Dwizum, welcome to the 'green side'  . Let me try to address a few of your questions.

Lighting: sounds like you have a lot of stuff there to choose from. For a 60gal, aim for somewhere around 150W lighting total, assuming you have good reflectors and even light dispersal. It's a reasonable level which will afford you the ability to grow a lot of plants, and lessen algae related problems.

Water movement: I don't quite know how to answer this one. It is definitely important in planted tanks as well, since it's been shown that if you have poor circulation, you have a greater likelihood of algae. I can only give you my personal tank info - on each of two 50's I have a Rena XP2 flowing wide open. There's a gentle current, but certainly no 'rip currents'. I'm sure others will chime in on this.

Filtration: for a 60 gal, I would certainly recommend you go with a cannister filter. No carbon in it, only sponges/floss and some form of biological type media, like ceramic rings. As you mentioned, wet/dry are not typically recommended because they will outgas a lot of CO2. As to the brand, the two main ones folks seem to use are Eheims, and Renas. IMO, it depends on your budget.

Substrate: there are a variety here. Flourite, Eco-complete, onyx sand, ADG stuff. Of those 4, adg is the most $$$. A cheap way to go some folks have used Soilmaster. Do a search here for some info on it.

CO2: completely agree with you. You could go low tech, and by pass it, but I think you'll be happier with it than without it. My 2 cents worth.

Vendors: check out the sponsor forums here for some good folks. Also check out the 'for sale' forum. If there's something in particular you're looking for, post a 'want to buy' ad in the forum, chances are someone will have it and sell it relatively inexpensively. 

Top 3 (4 or 5): plant heavily from the start; keep your lighting reasonable; maintain a stable routine - stability is very important; be patient, and learn from the mistakes you will make and all of us have made.  Have fun with it!

HTH.


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## DWIZUM (Jun 8, 2006)

That definitely helps, thanks!

36" VHO tubes are usually 95w, so if I do two of those tubes I'll be up over your reccomended target. As long as a choose appropriate plants and use enough CO2 and ferts that should be OK, right? Or should I really just try to aim for something lower, at least to start out with? The bulbs could be positioned far up off the tank to lessen their intensity too, I'll be building the hood once I have an idea of my lighting target.

Anyone else have comments? I will go looking for this soilmaster stuff in the other forums.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

I think the 2 x 95W will be ok, especially with your ability to adjust the height, therefore the intensity. That would give you a little over 3 wpg. You might want to start with an 8-9 hour photoperiod. You can set your timers so you can enjoy them when you're home from work. Mine come on at 1PM, off at 11PM. The amount I suggested was just that - a suggestion, you can of course go higher (or lower). With higher lighting, you must be more aware of your CO2 and ferts. Sounds like you've done a lot of homework. :thumbsup:


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## snowhillbilly (Mar 29, 2006)

To answer your question about where to buy. I also live a 100 miles from my local fish store lol real local. So I like to use petsmart. They have a lot of great filters and you can get fert supplies from them also. I like them because most of the time you can get free shipping on 50 dollar orders.
I have also heard that to high of water flow will help in algea growth. Dont know how true this is though. 
You do know that you want to stay away from accentic light bulbs I hope.
Get the CO2 I regret not doing this first. The substrate is going to be spendy for a 60 gallon and I do think you should use something good, because a lot of plants feed through there roots.
Well I hope this little bit may help and also come to the chat room and fill free to ask question there.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

The top three things to remember as you start a planted tank:
1. Pick a light intensity that will not make your tank an overnight algae farm. Best is multiple bulbs so you can turn off some to lower the light, but be able to get higher light for some more demanding plants. Absolute maximum for a 60 gallon tank, in my opinion, is 240 watts. Best is about 150 watts.

2. Don't do anything until you have the pressurized CO2 system in hand. Start using it from the beginning.

3. Use lots of plants from the start. Using cheap fast growing stem plants lets you cycle the tank easily, teaches you to grow plants well, and can always be replaced after a couple of months with more desirable plants.

4. (I know, I said three) Get fertilizers from Greg Watson - get KNO3, KH2PO4, TMG for traces or CSM+B for traces, and if your water is soft, get Greg's GH builder to increase the hardness. Start using them from the start.


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