# 'Bad' bag of ADA aquasoil - proof but long



## SPL-311 (Oct 4, 2006)

Hi all,
There have been several threads lately about the possibility of 'bad' bags of ADA Aquasoil in the marketplace. My problems started when I set up a 2.5 gallon nano using Aquasoil in early July. Some threads with background information:

brown/cloudy water with ADA Aquasoil? - The Planted Tank Forum
Giving up - The Planted Tank Forum
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...sible-contaminated-aquasoil-in-the-field.html

My water would turn to a dark tea/muddy brown cloudy soup in a very short time period. At first I suspected it might be the (very seasoned) piece of driftwood in the tank, so I removed it. At that point, only three things were in this nano - 1.Aquasoil 2.rocks 3.plants. I was running an Azoo palm filter on the lowest setting, then removed it all together for fear it was stirring the substrate - no effect. No fert dosing, only 0.25ml daily excel.

The brown water problems persisted. I resorted to daily 80% water changes with little effect. Finally I went to full 100% (as much water as I could siphon out) daily water changes. The picture below shows my nano 24 hours after a 100% water change.
















Several photos of the water in a white bucket - remember 24 hours after a complete change. That's not a bacterial or algal bloom.

















To top it off, few people will actually believe that the muddy water could be caused by an ADA product. Finally, after more than a month of full daily water changes with no improvement, I decided to try a fresh bag of Aquasoil and replant the tank.

Here is the empty 'bad' bag of Aquasoil along with the new bag. I would check the lot and manufacturing data, but unfortunately seems to be listed in Japanese. 









Now I will show the process of setting up this tank - this is basically a repeat of what I did in July, the only difference is the Aquasoil.

First, I put down a layer of Aquasoil, sloping towards the back of the tank:









Next, I positioned the stones in an Iwagumi layout:









&#8230;and filled in the rest of the substrate around the stones:









Next, I filled the tank with water to a level just over the substrate. To fill I put a coffee filter down on the substrate and slowly poured the water in - first over my hand, then through the coffee filter. The water ended up quite clear:









Next I planted out the glosso with tweezers, as to not disturb the substrate:

















The tank filled:

























It's been up for a week now and the water is clear as a bell. It is quite clear to me the ADA aquasoil is what caused my brown water problems. My theory is, since this is a low-fired clay substrate, perhaps the 'bad' bag was from a batch that was not fired hot enough or for long enough. The peat in the substrate could then leach into the water column. Sound reasonable? I'm looking forward to any comments or questions.
-Zack


----------



## elaphe (Aug 24, 2006)

*Sorry to change topic....*

but I really like your nano!

Is that the mini Coralife 18W (9W x 2) that you are lighting it with?

That looks great! I'm going to have to set up something like this.

Brian


----------



## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Have you contacted ADA about this? That is the first place I would start. I would also discuss, nicely, the problem with the company you bought the original stuff from. They may have phone/email contacts or have had similar problems reported. 

I won't speculate as to the "cause" though I do not know that the firing of the material would affect peat, though it is possible there were abnormal amount of peat added or that the batch was contaminated in som eother way. Heck, mistakes can and will happen with any company.


----------



## jsenske (Mar 15, 2004)

Where did you get yours? Aqua Forest it looks like from the price tag on the bag. 
I have not personally had anyone conatct me regarding such a problem, so it could be fairly isolated. I have done dozens of tanks with my supply and never encountered that or anything even near it, FWIW.


----------



## SPL-311 (Oct 4, 2006)

elaphe said:


> Is that the mini Coralife 18W (9W x 2) that you are lighting it with?


That is indeed the Coralife mini. A great little light.

I have not contacted ADA yet, though I plan to early next week. I did have a chat with the folks down at Aquaforest (where I bought the aquasoil) and they had never heard of similar problem from any other customers. FWIW we had a long discussion about how to set up a tank using the Aquasoil, and he said I was doing everything correctly.

There are probably 20 tanks at Aquaforest that use Aquasoil as the substrate, and all are perfectly clear, leading me to believe this problem must be isolated to a very very small number of bags. I will get in touch with ADA and try to determine the manufacturing lot data of this particular bag.

cheers!


----------



## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

sorry to hear about the bad bag, but atleast now you're on the right track and hopefully you'll get some $$ back? And mabey even help out the company a bit.
Btw, your tank still looks great!


----------



## RoseHawke (Jan 4, 2005)

The main thing here is just to know that such a thing is _possible_ so that if the rare person does run up on a similar problem (i.e. water that refuses to clear,) they will at least know that's a possible reason and it might behoove them to contact ADA or their vendor. In other words, no, you're not losing your mind .


----------



## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

dennis said:


> I won't speculate as to the "cause" though I do not know that the firing of the material would affect peat,


Does AquaSoil actually contain peat? I've personally never seen anything from ADA that actually says anything about what's in it... other than it's "soil that has been partially baked."

I understood that it lowered GH and KH due to strong negative physio-electric charges, like carbon. But other people say it has peat in it. I've even seen posts from people who say it has nitrate and phosphate in it.

Is there anyway to corroborate any of this?


----------



## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

THere is definately peet in powersand, not sure about aquasoil. It is a partially fired clay with other stuff added.


----------



## SPL-311 (Oct 4, 2006)

Another possible cause was suggested - my first bag of aquasoil was roughly handled durring shipping causing the substrate to break apart into small particles. I still feel it was an issue with the product, not shipping and handling.


----------



## rbittman (Apr 27, 2006)

I have been having the identical experience with an ADA Mini plus bag of Amazonia Powder Aquasoil all purchased from AquaForest back in April 2005. The tank has been set up since that time and is still unacceptably cloudy. I tried uv, diatom filtration and massive water changes, all to no real effect. Mine was never as murky as yours 311, but nearly so.
I recently emailed Aquaforest about this, but they haven't responded yet. I think the only solution is to start over, with new Aquasoil. My tank did not have Power Sand, but I would include it next time.
I'm glad to see your 2nd try was successful!


----------



## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

So far it seems to be that all the people with issues got their Aqua Soil from Aqua Forest Aquarium in San Francisco.

The question then is what could the vendor do with these bags to cause this problem?

At this point we really don't even know what the cloudiness is... it's all speculation.


----------



## SPL-311 (Oct 4, 2006)

I don't think that Aquaforest had anything to do with making these bags bad - they were probably just unlucky and recieved a number of bags from the same batch. 

I haven't had any luck turning up direct contact info for ADA - does anyone know it? I'll make a trip to Aquaforest later in the week and have a chat about the aquasoil, hopefully we can get reimbursement from ADA.

on the bright side ribbitman, seems like a substrate change should take care of your problem. Hopefully your tank isn't huge!


----------



## dhavoc (Mar 17, 2006)

may have one bad bag from ADG, i have 5 bags of AS and 1 of powder in a 120g and the water while it doesnt get cloudy, gets dark tea colored in a few days. been doing 80% water changes every 3 days for 3 weeks now, (cycling the tank) and no fauna in it yet, only snails and plants. got the usual GDA and diatom algae but its subsiding now. not so the tannins. water looks like my other tanks with drift wood in it but this one only has the AS and rocks. no way i can afford to rip it apart and start over (with air freight it was 400 bucks-aint it grand to live on a rock in the middle of the pacific ocean...). i think only one of the bags was bad, thats why the water doesnt get murky, but man i was expecting the crystal clear water like my smaller tanks setup with AS. HC and downoi taking off like crazy though. will keep doing massive water changes but we'll see. the wife is not happy with me dumping 100+ gallons of water down the toilet every few days, but she hates the tea water even more i guess.


----------



## thatguy (Oct 16, 2005)

Ive purchased AS from aquaforest as have many others I know, no one has had that problem. Typical brown water here and there from messy filling, but no cloudiness.


----------



## xcooperx (Jun 24, 2006)

im planning to buy some AS, but after reading some problem with it, i think i go with Eco, i just wanna change my Flourite so i can grow HC in a nice carpet.

Just in case im gonna buy AS hope the bags are good. If there is any problem occur can i contact the ADA to give me a Replacement?


----------



## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

Cooper, you do know that Eco had a problem with contamination too, right?

I am pointing this out because I don't want your reason to not try AS, be because of this fluke. Consider the # of "bad bag" reports. Consider the # of bags that have no "bad bag" reports. You'll find that the chance of a bad batch is very tiny in comparison.


----------



## Satirica (Feb 13, 2005)

Eco complete is not particularly dense and it has variable particle size. As a result, the top of the EC in my aquarium is a layer that is fairly chunky, and it tends to be difficult to plant small or finely rooted plants in so that they stay in place. I hate planting in EC though I love the look of it.

I haven't used AS, but I am not going to be using any more EC in my tanks. My best growth tank has a very thin layer of peated topped with a couple of inches of Fine Monterrey Sand -- a fairly large grained sand. It is also *much* easier to plant in.


----------



## xcooperx (Jun 24, 2006)

okay, i go with Gomer suggestion, gonna buy some AS at ADG or All about Fish

1 more question though, Do i need to use Power Sand so i can make a nice carpet of plants like HC, i just read this article at "Aqua JOurnal Magazine" they recommend that you put POwer sand at the Front then Aquasoil Granule at the back for stem plants. But you know some people say that AS Granule itself will be fine and i dont need of that power sand anymore (that is Ideal for me). So any suggestion?


----------



## Nick (Jan 12, 2005)

Listen mate, you'll open another right old can of worms with that question!!

I think it depends on how you like to keep your water plants. Personally, I use ADA substrates and liquids, and I just follow the instructions. I don't care to experiment, test or anything like that. I prefer to focus on making the aquascape look good with great growing plants. By using the above, providing adequate lighting, 1 bps CO2, and sticking to it and not fiddling around with it and being patient I've had the best tank I've ever grown with only one minor glitch. Frankly I don't concern myself with trying to work out whether I've got 1ppm CO2 or 100. I just bubble in 1 bps into a tank filled with tapwater, and it just works. See the October issue of the UK's biggest selling fishkeeping magazine Practical Fishkeeping if you want the evidence-there is a nice double page pic of my tank (all credit to George Farmer for getting it in there with his excellent article).

If you share the same kind of approach to having a tank, add the Powersand Special too-it won't hurt believe me.

Nick


----------

