# questions



## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

why is it my plants do most of their pearling on the day after WC?

i find myself adding 3x the EI dosing for NO3 to keep the nitrates up and dosing on micro days. according to the fertilator 3 tsp should yield me 21ppm but after a few hours i test and results are only 5. are my plants really using that much nitrates? yes my tests are calibrated.

ive had to trim a few times so far and have replanted the tops of polysperma, but they melt within a few days, any idea why?


thanks.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

It's possible that your plants are just nutrient hogs. Try dosing more. If your plants are melting that leads me to believe that they are needing more.

Maybe your tap water has a lot of phosphates and nitrates in it. So the day after is when your plants have enough nutrition to actually do some growing.


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

Tex Gal said:


> It's possible that your plants are just nutrient hogs. Try dosing more. If your plants are melting that leads me to believe that they are needing more.
> 
> Maybe your tap water has a lot of phosphates and nitrates in it. So the day after is when your plants have enough nutrition to actually do some growing.


i use R/O reconstituted with Barr's GH Booster and baking soda. they are growing like weeds, its just when i top them off and replant the tops, the tops melt.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

When you replant can they get enough light or are they shaded? OR- Sometimes the CO2 doesn't get mixed well enough around the tank. Could that also be the issue since they are lower and water flow is usually impeded by stems?

About the pearling - maybe the plants are using all the CA and MG and by the time you change water you are giving them enough finally to do some fast growing again?

Trying to come up with some ideas....


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

Tex Gal said:


> When you replant can they get enough light or are they shaded? OR- Sometimes the CO2 doesn't get mixed well enough around the tank. Could that also be the issue since they are lower and water flow is usually impeded by stems?
> 
> About the pearling - maybe the plants are using all the CA and MG and by the time you change water you are giving them enough finally to do some fast growing again?
> 
> Trying to come up with some ideas....


well i ruled out the light by trying some in bright light and some in a shaded area. i was also guessing it had to do with co2 or CA/MG. if i turn the co2 up much more i will get an air lock in my reactor (its just one of those tube ones with a power head on the top but its pinched between both canister intakes) i had an DIY inline one but it started leaking awhile a back.. yesterday i really cranked the co2 up and woke up to my fish gasping. i guess i need an airstone at night.

as to the flow, if i add anymore my plants will blow down. but i suppose i could try strategically placing some powerheads. today is WC day, so i will bump up the GH Booster a little and see if that helps. i also need to trim today (im not used to trimming every week!) so im hoping these cuttings will make it.

i havent had any algae issues since the brown diatoms went away after cycling. i do have some minor BBA that came in on some plants, and i am now just seeing GSA on the glass within the past few days.

thanks for your input!


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

per usual its the day after water change and my tank looks like a soda bottle. i added a little extra GH Booster. i also hacked down some stems and planted a bunch of 3 -6" cuttings. i'm hoping they wont melt this time. i also upped the co2 just a tad, and added a power head behind a big mass of stems.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

It'll be interesting to see what happens. I can't imagine why healthy cuttings would die when the original plants are still doing well. The suggestions I gave are all that I can think of..

One other thing... could you have some anaerobic pockets of gas where you are planting the new cuttings? (last idea here! )


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

i do occassionaly see a large bubble burp up fom the substrate.

i dont get it either. the stems are branching and growing huge leaves. but i can already see a few polysperma cuttings wilting. while one a few inches over has doubled in size. i can tell which ones will melt because they dont close up when the lights go out. its only hygrophilia doing this.

today is the 3rd day of pearling, this is normally when it starts to fizzle out.


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

uuuughhhh. WTF. once again i come home from work to find plants pearling like crazy, the original stems have already made up for my hack job and then some. but the cuttings are turning clearish black and melting. i would say 4 out of 5 polysperma cuttings dont make it, while one right next to it that was shipped to me is thriving. and its only hygros... polysperma, tiger, & stricta. the ceylon and angustifolia does fine. i think that ive eliminated N,P,K. could it possibly be my micros? not enough? or too much iron?


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

This is so weird! I'm out of guesses! Hopefully someone else will be able to help.


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

well WC day is here again, and most of the cuttings from the previous week have disintegrated into oblivion  and the originals have multiple branches where i cut last week, that have huge healthy leaves.

this time i really hacked the left side back and took 8-10" cuttings of green hygro, tiger & ceylon and planted them in various bare spots. i'm really amazed at how fast they reach the surface, but am miffed as to why the transplants wont make it. i added two more weee tiny powerheads, but i still see two more "dead spots". i also noticed that while adding new water to one side of the tank the murky calcium cloudiness didnt really travel to the other half. maybe i need to rethink my output positioning. i see pictures where people have their spray bars mounted on the side glass, maybe i should move both of mine to one side instead of the rear.

on a whim i tested my phosphates and they are REALLY high again from feeding beefheart. im trying to ease off the BH but i have 2 discus that wont eat anything but, not even BW.

uuughhh, am i on the right track? anyone?


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## algaehater (Jul 18, 2008)

I had the EXACT same problem with my polysperma after trimming, the leaves would melt and part of the stems would go black, Tom told me to lower my po4 dosing and add some carbon to the filter.

Anyhow i change to pps pro at the time and my polysperma did not melt. but now im back dosing ei again at a leaner dose and higher co2 and no melt.

It will be interesting to find out the real problem with this plant and why it melts.keep us posted


btw whats your water temp?


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

algaehater said:


> I had the EXACT same problem with my polysperma after trimming, the leaves would melt and part of the stems would go black, Tom told me to lower my po4 dosing and add some carbon to the filter.
> 
> Anyhow i change to pps pro at the time and my polysperma did not melt. but now im back dosing ei again at a leaner dose and higher co2 and no melt.
> 
> ...


i knew i couldnt be the only one! what did he want you to remove with the carbon? hmmmm, high po4, i'll watch my po4 levels and see if they still melt when it drops again. ive tried pps pro but didnt have much success with it. i'm having great results with EI besides the melting. i've been bumping up my co2 a wee bit everyday.

thanks for your response!


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## algaehater (Jul 18, 2008)

Im not sure why he wanted me to add the carbon, it may of been because my tapwater has high amounts of copper....in your case you use r/o water so i now know copper most probably wasnt the cause of my hygro melting.


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

the first day after transplanting the leaves start to bend down, by the 3rd they are turning clear, and by the 5th the stem is rotting from the top down.

and oh yea my water temp is 79-80ish. cool for discus but they do fine.

i wonder if i have copper coming from somewhere. maybe if i cant figure it out i will try adding carbon for a week.


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

well i almost thought i had this problem licked. i did WC saturday. sun had good pearling. mon i had more pearling than i ever had. the fine leaved plants were absolutely covered in bubbles. no cuttings were melting yet. tues the fine leaved plants had very minimal pearling, no melting of polysperma. my armoatica has turned into a huge bush, a green bush though....

today i come home to find the polysperma leaves starting to bend down. and not so much pearling.
the only thing that i did different on monday before i went to work was turn up the co2 and add extra CSM+B (which i've been doing all week)
my bubble counter liquid is a mass of bubbles. you cant even see the bubbles being released.

i tested my phosphates yesterday and they are at 5.0... high, i know. and im getting a little bit of brown diatoms on plant leaves. i'm not going to feed beef heart anymore, maybe just half a cube once a week. i think my nitrate test has gone bad, i added a large pinch of kno3 into the test tube and it barely changed colors.

i dont want to have to resort to using a phosphate pad. i really dont have a clean up crew, i bought a school of skunk cories and a school of panda cories. and also another dozen otos (cant keep them alive for more than a few weeks in the main tank). they are in QT for the next few weeks, possibly longer, until my phosphates are under control.


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## algaehater (Jul 18, 2008)

Its diffently not from low co2 i can assure you this, the melt will increase with higher co2 and higher light. have you tried a gravel vac before replanting?....how much traces are you adding?


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

algaehater said:


> Its diffently not from low co2 i can assure you this, the melt will increase with higher co2 and higher light. have you tried a gravel vac before replanting?....how much traces are you adding?


there is virtually no mulm buildup yet. the tank has only been running a few months. the substrate is so light im weary of vaccing it.

3/4 tsp of CSM+B every other day. just experimenting with it.

everything i read on the barrreport suggests not enough co2.

i did notice my filter intake lines are sort of pinching and restricting flow from bending


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

well it seems i have some polysperma cuttings that arent melting. i built a rex style co2 reactor, still need a bigger pump for it, played with some powerheads and per advice of tom barr and crew shaved off 60 watts of light, my front fixtures. im down to 312 watts. now i have a new problem. patches of my sag are turning clear & dying. dont know if its because i took the flow away from them, took the co2 away from them or because i shut the front fixtures off. or maybe the ferts i seeded the substrate with when i set it up have run out.

also in the process of getting rid of all my hoses and replacing it with pvc. they always kink up.


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## algaehater (Jul 18, 2008)

Good to hear the melt has stop. do you dose flourish excel?


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

algaehater said:


> Good to hear the melt has stop. do you dose flourish excel?


thanks, no i dont. i did before i went pressurized.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

I have 2 things for you to try. First- if it's a carbon problem (CO2) add excel and see if it helps. If it does it says that you are not getting enough CO2 at the lower level. Second- leave the cuttings floating in a area that won't hurt the tank too much and see if they stay in good condition. If they stay in good condition it says that you aren't getting the nutrients mixed to the bottom of your tank.

What you did by decreasing your light is to decrease the amount of CO2 and nutrients your plants needed because you slowed down their growth. You should be able to increase those two things and your light as well if that is the problem.


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## algaehater (Jul 18, 2008)

My hygrophilla has really taking off since ive increased the kh....my ph use to go as low as 5.8 or lower! Now it sits at around 6.5ish and leaves are now much bigger and greener.

It would be interesting to know how your hygrophilla is traveling.


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

algaehater said:


> My hygrophilla has really taking off since ive increased the kh....my ph use to go as low as 5.8 or lower! Now it sits at around 6.5ish and leaves are now much bigger and greener.
> 
> It would be interesting to know how your hygrophilla is traveling.


whats your KH at? are you using baking soda? right now mines around 7 but its been as high as 10. my fish start showing stress from co2 when PH hits about 6.1.....

its still hit or miss with my hygro. the leaves are HUGE. but 50% of the cuttings are still withering.


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

you know i added just a tad more soda than i usually do, and the cuttings have taken off.... this is after a major meltdown of almost all my stems, i recently started a new job and havent had time to pay attention to my tank(s).


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