# Anubias Photo Challenge Discussion Thread!



## MiamiAG

Discuss the Anubias Photo Challenge here!


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## MiamiAG

Folks,

One more week! Start uploading your anubias shots!


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## gvescovi

i think these 2 are the best:

1. Pearling Anubias nana, posted by theete 
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=3068&c=61.

2. Anubias buds, posted by wantable23 
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=3033&c=61

***
(sorry for my poor english, i´m not from USA)


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## MiamiAG

A big THANK YOU! to all those that submitted photos! We're by 20 so far.

When the contest closes, members will be able to rate the entries.


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## wantabe23

*number of photos to submit?*

Can we submit more than one photo?


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## wantabe23

Another question: how do we know if some of the photos are actually anubias plants?


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## MiamiAG

Yes, you can submit more than one photo.

As this is a competition that focuses on the Anubias, it should be pretty easy to determine whether the plant in the image is an Anubias.


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## MiamiAG

We're by 32 entries so far. Come on folks! There's got to be more people with Anubias and a digital camera out there! Take a shot and submit it.


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## MiamiAG

The contest is now closed!!

Please go vote! *You must give a rating to ALL photos*. Also, remember that this is a photography contest so base your ratings on the photo and not necessarily on the plant itself. Feel free to post comments/questions to the photographer by adding a comment to the photo.

Voting will be opened for 1 week from today.


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## Faruk Gençöz

Good to have over 50 photos. Although it was a little bit time consuming to rate all the photos it was a self-educating activity for me.


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## John N.

That was a fun and easy experience. Lots of great pictures out there, especially some of the flowering anubias.

Here's the link to the contest and pictures: 
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=61

Thanks Art and Robert H. for setting this up nicely, it was a pleasure.

-John N.


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## theteh

It seems rather unfair that anyone including people who submited the photos themselves can vote???!!! I have seen someone voted for himself!!


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## MiamiAG

It is common for a person to vote for himself. Politicians do it all the time.


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## Robert Hudson

Is that how you vote by rating every picture? I agree, that would be very time consuming. Nice pictures. I like the close ups.


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## MiamiAG

I did it in less than 10 minutes. If you can find 10 minutes in your day, then please go ahead a vote. You'll be helping the people that took the time to take pictures and submit them.


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## theteh

Ok, in that case, I will start voting!


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## Robert Hudson

It took me a little more than ten minutes, but it was easy. I enjoyed going thru all the pictures.


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## HydroBot

splain it to me. how do ya vote?


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## Faruk Gençöz

Please go to page: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/contest/index.php?action=showentry&id=31

Click on the first image. When the bigger size image appears click on the rating button on the blue bar which is above the picture. Choose from 1 to 10 and send it.

Go back to index page again and click on the second picture and continue in the same way.


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## neonfish3

fgencoz: I think you linked the IALPC not the anubias photo challenge.
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=61 
I do see some wild votes, very high, very low, just odd.
I think for honesty and integrity the highest and lowest votes should be dropped and the rest of the votes averaged.
Edit--> removed wrong link


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## Faruk Gençöz

Sorry about the wrong link in my message. The funny thing is that Steve's link is not working either. How about this: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=61&userid=


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## MiamiAG

Steve,

The system doesn't allow for the removal of top and bottom votes at the moment. That is why I am trying to get people to vote. The more votes submitted, the fairer it will be. So far, only 20+ people have voted.


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## MiamiAG

Last call on the voting for the Anubias Photo Challenge. Closing voting today at 12 midnight Eastern time.


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## joyban

Hi,

Just missed the Contest, but I have some pics of Anubias....

Please check my photos if intrested....

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=15&userid=1917

Thanks

Regards

Sujoy
New Delhi
India


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## MiamiAG

Well, Niko won the contest. Congratulations Niko!

I'm interested to get everyone's thoughts on his picture.









How did you take the shot, Niko?


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## Faruk Gençöz

This is a very attractive photo. The light, focusing, timing and the object are all carefully arranged. It seems Niko also used his mastery over the photoshop. 

Congratulations, Niko.


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## Bert H

Congrats Niko! That was my favorite as well. Nicely done!


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## niko

Thank you all!

My main reason to put this photo in the contest was not to win but to attract attention to how an otherwise less than mediocre picture can be manipulated and greatly improved.

Here's the picture as it came out of the camera:
http://www.deepforestaquatics.com/aqua/misc/anubiasGH13_orig.jpg

Although the finished, manipulated photo won the contest I don't think it's that great. The composition is not perfect, and there is obvious Photoshop applied. My point, as usual, is that one needs to try to take the best possible picture, not to rely on digital enhancements.

I suspect some people will ask the usual question about the camera I used. It's a Nikon Coolpix 4500 - not an expensive SLR. The blurry original picture is not what that camera produces every time. I took that picture on a whim - picked up the camera and shot hand held. Once again - things like the light intensity, direction of the light, water movement, angle of the camera in relaton to the tank, shutter speed/aperture determine if you will end up with a good original or not.

Thanks again!
--Nikolay


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## sarahbobarah

Wait, you can tell who voted what?


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## MiamiAG

Yes, it is one of those features to try to ensure fairness in voting.


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## Faruk Gençöz

niko said:


> My point, as usual, is that one needs to try to take the best possible picture, not to rely on digital enhancements.


Niko, I am afraid this is not the only message driven from your attempt. If one could have the first degree with a photoshopped photo that also means mastery over photoshop is highly important. I believe using photoshop is not a bad choice. It is a part of the digital photography. On the other hand we can discuss to what extent digital post-processing is acceptable in a photo contest. If this topic was already discussed in the past, forget it.


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## sarahbobarah

Art_Giacosa said:


> Yes, it is one of those features to try to ensure fairness in voting.


How does one view this?


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## Faruk Gençöz

It is not possible now. After the voting is closed this feature disappeared.


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## sarahbobarah

Hmmm.... that makes me feel kind of bad. I didn't know my votes were going to be seen. Makes me think twice about participating now. 

Oh well, live and learn I guess.....


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## MiamiAG

Why does it make you feel bad Sarah? If you vote your mind, you shouldn't be embarrassed about it. If a picture deserves a 1 star then give it. If it deserves a 10 but you don't like the person and give it a 1 star, then you should know that others will see you sandbagging.


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## Faruk Gençöz

Sarahbobarah,

You have lived. What did you learn? :noidea: How does that make you feel bad?


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## wantabe23

*photoshiping legal?*

To begin with Congrats Niko on the Win!!!

So is a digital photo contest have more to do with photshoping the picture than actually taking the photo? So is the contest really more of a contest with those with photoshop? Because I dont have the photoshop luxury. I have to make the best of what I can get with the camera that I have. I know that this could bring into question many other variables but, if indeed niko had a poor photo to begin with and made it better than all the others by using photoshop does that tell me that I dont have a chance at winning? So the competitive side of the contest is not there any more, its just to have my picture up and voted on? This was my first photo challenge and I felt competitive and it was fun; the photo's were great and fun to look at often. Maybe my perspective was just not a reality, I assumed that every one was taking the best photo of an Anubias and would submit it. I just dont know if photoshoping a photo to that measure is fare. Are the planted aquariums that are in major contests photoshoped? I guess that I assume that a picture I see hear is what I would expect to see in some ones aquarium in reallity. But this photo hear is not necessarily a reality/tangible. I hate to make more rules, but it might be nice to have some more peramiters stated within the contest. 
Other thoughts on this?


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## sarahbobarah

I feel bad if I make someone else feel bad. That's all... What I mean to say is, and don't laugh, but this is what went through my head: "What if someone saw that I didn't give them a high rating and it made them feel really awful about their [lack of] photography skills?" I guess I'm just overanalyzing it.

Now I feel really silly for having brought it up. Meh.....

And to reply to Wantabe23's post, I want to share my criteria for how I voted. I gave each photo a starting score of 5/10 for anubius health and 5/10 for photography. I felt that it would be a good measure of keeping in the spirit of the "Anubius Photo" Challenge. Then, I would add or subtract "points" for things like: Is the plant healthy? and Did the photographer take time to present the plant as an entry (ie, clean glass spots off, try to fix illumination,etc). Then I asked myself questions like: Would I be proud to sell this plant as a product? and Would I buy from a website that had this photo on their site? 
And lastly, does this photo show the anubius off to the full potential of the plant within the hobby?

See what I mean about overanalyzing? Anyway, it felt like it took me a little over an hour to finish with the voting, but I wanted to do it right.


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## Faruk Gençöz

As a contestant, I am very glad to hear that a person who took the scoring very seriously gave me score. No matter what the score is that's my profit by participating such a contest. In the beginning I imagined that the contest could be profitable challenge, so, I prepared my pictures, submitted them and at least someone considered my photos seriously. That shows I was right and now I am really glad.

I could not win this time not because of the lower scores given to my performance. The reason was definitely my performance not the scores themselves. I learned from the points raised by Niko, wantabe23 and sarahbobarah. I am sure the next time these points will let me produce a much better performance. 

I am glad to be in this community.:yo:


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## wantabe23

*again photoshoping*

I believe my main topic was about photoshoping photos, not how I thought I should morally vote. Of which, I think I did it fare. Any thoughts on photoshoping?


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## sarahbobarah

See, that's the thing. It was half a photography contest, and photoshopping falls under that premise. 

Now, if someone doesn't have the necessary software (which can be remedied, btw - there's lots of shareware that can compensate or compare to Adobe photoshop) then it would be that much harder to participate. If I was serious about entering this kind of competition and I know my main weakness is that I don't have these programs, or I absolutely suck at them, then I would do my best to excel in other areas. Here's an example:

Photographers will take 100 shots of the same thing, narrow it down to maybe 15 shots they believe came out well, narrow it down to 5 shots to work with, and out of those 5, choose 1 to show to other people. Now that's not an extreme example, but it does have the usual exception of just dumb luck of capturing the perfect moment in one shot. 

Also, a major component in photography competitions with aquariums/ fish/ reef/ planted tanks is this: You are allowed to tweak your photograph, but anything that is obviously done to manipulate the object of the shot (ie saturate a plant with super color, make fish look like they're glowing) is in bad taste and usually disqualifies the entry. 

Also, think of it this way: photographs that are entered into contests are almost always manipulated extensively after the shutter button is pressed. It was done in darkrooms before computers were invented. 

So, those are my thoughts on photoshopping. 

And it would not be a question of making more rules, because these rules already exist.


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## wantabe23

*thanks for the reply.*

now that was what I was looking for. Thank you for elaborating more for some further understanding Sarahbobarah. Now are there some documented rules to touching up a photo for contests? I am unaware of them. And I dont think using a dark room can even touch what photoshop is capable of. For all the different options at the tip of your fingers.
I saw the original photo that niko took after seeing the winning picture, and to be honest I was shocked (that was indended), but even more they are two different pictures. I cannot expect to see his tank looking this good if I was to see it in real life. This is a misrepresentation, is it not?
Now I know that he did enter the best photo and not the original and that is all great. But for example, I come to this site to see others creations in the aquariums, I go here (APC) and I go to ADA and there are many other sites that I go to get an idea of how planted tanks can look with hard work. So I take what I see and try to recreate it. Having no hands on experience with this sort of thing, so I have to educate myself and pictures are a large part of it. Now these tanks and wonderful pictures that I see are not 100% real? Would I be disapointed to see the actual tank after seeing is photo in a contest? And futher more what I see is not an actuallity, I cannot REALLY make a tank look that pleasing to the eyes. So it boils down to the reality of this beauty (planted aquaria) is only a reality on photos, a look through the shutter of a camera and even manipulated with computer technology?


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## MiamiAG

Hi folks,

Sorry it took me a while to jump in here. I'm real busy with merger preparations.

It's a wonderful discussion you have here. They are all fair questions and comments. Here's my take.

The reality of taking digital photos (and the reality of professional film) is that they are all touched up. Why? For two reasons really. The first is that you don't always take a great picture especially if you're a beginner or don't have a good camera. For example, it won't be sharp, the white balance is off, there's too much noise (btw, these are all concepts Niko and others have discussed in this forum). So, the picture didn't capture reality correctly and doesn't do it justice. The photographer is free to use image editing to correct these defects as best he can.

The second is to take a given photo and highlight parts of it. This is where the photographer crosses the line into making the photo "better". Not necessarily that it will be better than reality, but that the picture itself will look better. This means adjusting color, brightness, croping, etc. Unless done to an extreme and the picture no longer represents reality, this is also fine.

Lets remember that this is a "photo" challenge and not a plant challenge. Who takes the best photo of an anubias subject? Certainly, the subject must be in good health. I think Sarah's way of analyzing was excellent.

However, because some clarity is being requested as to how much photo manupilation is "OK", I will introduce the following two sets of rules. These rules are taken from the site: www.dpchallenge.com. I highly recommend that you visit it to take a look at the work of excellent photographers.

I am submitting the rules in the next post so that they are easily copied later.

Again, I want to thank everyone for participating in the Anubias Challenge and hope that you will participate in future challenges. I'm sure that with practice all of you will take better pictures. And remember, there are a lot of free options for Photoshop.


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## MiamiAG

Going forward, all Photo Challenge contests will be governed either by the Basic Editing Rules or by the Advanced Editing Rules below.

*Basic Editing Rules*

Your entry must come from a single photograph, taken during the specified challenge timeframe. You may not combine multiple exposures. You may not post-process your entry from or to include elements of multiple images, graphics or text such as multiple exposures, clip art, computer-rendered images, or elements from other photographs (even those taken during the challenge).

Any modification done inside the digital camera itself is considered acceptable for challenge submission.

Post-shot adjustments may be made to your image in a photo editing program, so long as the modification is applied to the whole image. This includes levels, conversion to black and white, blackening out the background, hue/saturation, sizing/rotating, curves and cropping (or their non-Photoshop equivalents). The use of certain editing and adjustment tools is restricted or prohibited as outlined below.

*Filters*: The use of filters (or non-Photoshop equivalent) is strictly limited. Any filter or stand-alone utility designed and used to preserve the integrity of the image and/or reduce the effects of noise, scratches, etc, are permitted. These include but are not limited to the Sharpen, Unsharp Mask, and Dust & Scratches filters, and standalone image cleanup utilities such as NeatImage. However, no effects filters may be applied to your image, with the exception of Noise and Gaussian Blur, which are allowed. Any filter permitted by this rule must be applied uniformly to the entire image. Selective application of any filter is prohibited.

*Spot-Editing*: Excepted as provided above, absolutely no spot-editing is allowed. This includes, but is not limited to drawing tools, dodging/burning tools, and cloning tools. Additionally, the use of any type of selection tool is prohibited except to select a non-feathered, non-anti-aliased rectangular area for cropping.

*Layers*: Only Adjustment Layers (or the non-Photoshop equivalent) may be used. An Adjustment Layer is one that does not contain any pixel data, but rather is a special, non-image layer that lets you experiment with color and tonal adjustments to an image without permanently modifying the pixels. Adjustment Layers must be applied in Normal mode. All other types of layers (including those that contain pixel data or masks) and all other blending methods (modes) are prohibited. Changing the opacity of an Adjustment Layer is permitted.

*Borders*: It is suggested that if you decide to use a border, you should only use one or two solid colors around the outside of your photo. However, alternative borders are allowed, as long as they do not contain any text, clip art, photographs, or other artwork.
*Advanced Editing Rules*

Your entry must come from a single photograph, taken during the specified challenge timeframe. You may not post-process your entry from or to include elements of multiple images, multiple exposures, clip art, computer-rendered images, or elements from other photographs (even those taken during the challenge week), and other similar items. A photograph may only be used in one challenge, even if it is cropped or altered differently to fit another challenge. Duplicate photos will be disqualified.

*Selective Editing*: Adjustments can be made selectively to your photo. Cloning, dodging, burning, etc. to improve your photo or remove imperfections or minor distracting elements, etc. is acceptable. However, using any editing tools to duplicate, create, or move major elements of your photograph is not permitted.

*Layers*: You may use layers, layer masks and alternative layer modes to assist in your selective editing.

*Filters*: At your discretion, you may apply filters to your photo, in whole or part. (Be aware that extensively altering the "look" of your photograph with an "effects" filter is often not well received by voters.)

*Borders*: It is suggested that if you decide to use a border, you should only use one or two solid colors around the outside of your photo. However, alternative borders are allowed, as long as they do not contain any text, clip art, photographs, or other artwork.
Any modification done inside the digital camera itself is considered acceptable for challenge submission.

You are highly encouraged to list all of your post-shot editing steps in the "Description" section or as a comment when submitting your photo.


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## MiamiAG

Here's a list of free photo editing software: http://www.gh-gold.co.uk/imgeditors.php

There may be others. If anyone uses one, please let us know here.


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## jack08

yah


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## Robert Hudson

Man, you guys are taking this way serious. Isn't this just mostly for fun? And highly, and I mean very highly subjective? I don't know about anyone else, but when I voted or rated each picture, I did not put a tremendous amount of thought into it. If I was to rate each picture again, I most likely could not duplicate my previous vote. I went basically by how each picture struck me at that particular moment. I do not think editing software had much to do with it.


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## Faruk Gençöz

On the basis of what has been mentioned here there seems to be at least two dimensions. The first dimension is about voting behavior; there are people who are careless in one end and there are ones who take it seriously in the other end. The other dimension is about the level of engagement. In one end of this dimension there are people who want to demonstrate an artistic performance and in the other end there are ones who perceive that this is just a fun. 

Overall it must be a good thing to have many different individuals sharing the same platform here.


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