# angelfish trouble



## dogdoc (Feb 3, 2006)

Alright, this is kinda weird. I bought 5 koi angels from a reputable breeder on Aquabid. They made the trip well and were placed in my 10g quarantine tank for two weeks. They all did well and were eating/acting normal sometimes a little shy, but otherwise ok. 

So last week, they all made the trip downstairs to my 75g planted tank which is to be their permanent home. Two days later, as I was headed out in the early a.m. I noticed one of them stuck to the side of my Koralia and I thought, dang, I lost one. When I came back an hour later, I decided to fish out the "body". I unplugged the pump and the fish swam weakly away. I managed to net it and moved it back to the QT to await the inevitble. Well, a week passed, and the fish did well. Ate/behaved normally. So today at noon, after a big water change in the main tank, I moved it back. As I'm looking at the tank, I notice the same problem fish laying on its side on the substrate. Again, weak, but alive. Again I moved it back to qt. 

So I'm confused. Why does this fish do alright in qt, but have near death experiences in the main tank. The only difference I can think of is the CO2 injection in the main tank. I thought maybe that was the culprit the first time, but today it happened mid-day with lights on and plants pearling. All the other fish seem fine, including the other four angels from the same shipment.


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## lildark185 (Jul 7, 2006)

Allergies? LOL. The other four angels have been doing fine in the planted tank since their first introduction with the exception of that one? I'd think it were the single fish itself rather than anything with the tank if the other ones are fine.


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## dogdoc (Feb 3, 2006)

It just seems really weird that it does fine in the QT, and goes down so quickly in the big tank.

And yep, all the others are doing great.

My wife says it's because it's the only one with a name so far.


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## bigpaa (Jul 27, 2007)

Maybe you can turn off your CO2 and do a WC before moving it to the main tank,then let it acclimatize to the CO2.


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## SpeedEuphoria (Jul 9, 2008)

That is strange, it must be the weakest one obviously. I dont know, but I tried 2 Angels from a bad source and the acted the same, but I do not have another tank for them so they died.



bigpaa said:


> Maybe you can turn off your CO2 and do a WC before moving it to the main tank,then let it acclimatize to the CO2.


I think this must be it, just b/c water has good oxygen, the fish still is not used to the co2 levels(they coexist at independent rates).


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## dogdoc (Feb 3, 2006)

That is exactly what I did. Changed about 70% of water, then moved the fish. So the CO2 was low when transferred.


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## bigpaa (Jul 27, 2007)

What if you stop dosing CO2 for a couple of days? or increase it gradually?


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## SpeedEuphoria (Jul 9, 2008)

dogdoc said:


> That is exactly what I did. Changed about 70% of water, then moved the fish. So the CO2 was low when transferred.


But did you do it durring the day when the CO2 was still on? So it would build back up pretty fast.

I just got into this pressurized CO2 thing, so have been wondering how people acclimate new fish to this or if it cause any issues.

People tend to say raise the CO2 levels slowly and watch the fish, well once you get those fish used to higher levels, then you would think it may be stressful to new fish.


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## dogdoc (Feb 3, 2006)

Well, the CO2 was the first thing that came to mind for me. Essentially it is the only difference between the two tanks.

The part I'm having trouble understanding is why only one of the 5 fish is having trouble with it. I've introduced other fish the same way too. Rummy noses, bolivian rams and others. None have seemed to have issues with it. At least no more stress than would be expected with the move.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

When I have bought new fish I just float them and either release in tank or add water by 3rds over time and then in the tank. I've never had a fish go belly up because of the CO2 Besides if it was the CO2 you'd think it would happen in the first hour or so, as the issue is not enough O2. Perhaps because it is a diseased/weak fish the flow rate is just too much. It may have had issues before and the trip out to you didn't help. So it appears fine in the 10g as it's weak and doesn't have to handle the flow, but in the big tank it's just not strong enough. Maybe?


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## lildark185 (Jul 7, 2006)

It has nothing to do with CO2 since the other angels are doing perfectly fine. There is probably a defect in the angel and should be kept in the QT if you want it to live. Survival of the fittest.


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## dogdoc (Feb 3, 2006)

Of course it had to be the best looking of the bunch as far as color/markings. And the darn thing is looking at me from the quarantine tank like "who me?" I was really hoping that it would pair up with one of the others.

I guess all I can do right now is give her/him a while in the qt and try again at some later time. Maybe when it is a little bigger, things will go better.


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## stuckintexas (Aug 12, 2008)

good choice. my suggestion would be to let the fish live in the QT for as long as it needs to get super healthy and strong. give it months perhaps. once it is healthy it should be able to make the transition. are the water hardness parameters equal in both tanks? either way you may want to acclimate the fish instead of just putting him/her in the big tank.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

I was going to suggest just leaving it in the q-tank until it gets good and strong too, then trying again a few months down the road. It will do the fish a lot of good to be able to have a tank to itself and have the chance to recover without the competition from the other fish for food and space.

If it still doesn't do well once you move it back to the main tank, you always have the option of setting up a new tank (maybe 29 gallon or so) and adding a couple of the other Angels to that tank to see if they pair up.


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## dogdoc (Feb 3, 2006)

I think it has to be the CO2. I just tried moving 5 rummys out of the qt and into the main tank and ended up fishing all of them back out. They looked like they essentially "passed out" floating upside down or being blown around by the water movement. After a minute or two back in the qt, they all came around like nothing was ever wrong.

So this brings up another interesting theory. Fish must be able to build up a tolerance to CO2 in the water column. None of the rummys that are in the main tank, nor any of the other fish look stressed, but man did it do a number on the new guys. My drop checker is usually yellow, but since none of the fish seemed to mind, I haven't been worried about it. I'm going to back down on my CO2 and shoot for "green" for a while.

So the one angel that had issues must be somewhat more sensitive than the others.

Thanks for all the help.


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## ray-the-pilot (May 14, 2008)

I have a pH controller and can regulate the level of CO2 in my tank very accurately and my experience is that even low levels of CO2 have negative effects on some fish.

I keep my CO2 below 20 ppm, which is dark green-blue green on a drop checker. Even at this level I can see that some fish (hatchet fish, cardinal tetras, oto cats) show a decline in activity and reproductive interest. 

If you are interested in fish health, I would never let a drop checker get light green.


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## freydo (Jan 7, 2006)

if the difference between the two tanks is the CO2, maybe consider slowing getting it acclimatized to the water from the main tank. have the weak angel in a bucket/pail with water from the QT tank, then slowing add water from the main tank. maybe add a few ounces at a time. see how it reacts after when the majority is water from the main tank.

if that doesn't work, then possibly, the fish is just physically not strong enough to handle the CO2 rich water.


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## dogdoc (Feb 3, 2006)

Kind of an interesting footnote here. I turned down the CO2 from bright yellow to green on the DC. The other angels seemed to appreciate that. They are more active and outgoing now. Everyone seems happy. 

Except that same fish. I have tried to re-introduce it into the tank with the CO2 turned down and it does the same thing. Acts like it is dying. I had to scoop her out once again. Just weird.


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## sandeepraghuvanshi (Feb 22, 2007)

It might be a weak fish and getting picked on by other angels.
In qt it would not be facing the same problem, as it would be alone.
Let ir remian in Qr for some time and see, if it helps


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