# Careers related to the hobby



## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Well, in just over a year I plan on heading to college. While I love what I do, furniture/ cabinet maker, I realize it may not get me to a place where I want with my life. I figure now is the best time to change that I know it may not be the best idea to go to school for something I love, already did that once with woodworking, but I definitely think I would be best suited for something in the natural science fields, as long as it does not get to math dependant.

I really regret now not going to college right after high school, but I knew then what I wanted to do; its what I have become. Don't get me wrong, I love being a furniture maker but I know I will only feel that way about it if I can do it for enjoyment, for myself, my friends and my family. I may sound snotty, and judge me how you will, but I cannot see my current profession affording me the things I want from life. Even a modest house is out of my realm in my current position. Cars, health care and even gas are all so expensive and I know that no matter how talented I may be, my income will not increase much. The salary for someone like me is barely more than I already make, great for a young, single guy but crappy when one starts thinking family, children, nice house, retirement and sending the kids off to school. I can always create things in my garage, it can become my art again.

So until next fall I work, I save my pennies and I plan for my future. I will start as a freshman at UMass, Amherst but I still don't know what I want to do, what I want to be. There are so many people here I figure I can get all kinds of advice. What careers are there in the natural/bio science fields? Environmental issues, conservation and education are all things important to me. Are there any fields that relate to our hobby? I love gardening, nature, aquariums etc. I have worked on golf courses and grew up on a farm and am very mechanically inclined. I don't mind research, writing any of the seemingly mundane tasks. I am an avid reader with a good memory, especially concerning the sciences. I like history and things like paleontology but if I could do something to improve the world, save the planet, change our future....I would like that too. I would love to look through a microscope, develop new, better, more sustainable resources or find and classify new plants, frogs (but not snakes, eecckkkk) or insects.

What can I do? Guide me oh wise ones!


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## New 2 Fish (Dec 31, 2004)

Good luck on your return to school. I found myself asking the same questions about 3 years ago. 
I took a field biology class over one summer kind of by accident and fell in love with being outside, so I changed my major to biology. All was fine and dandy until I transferred to the local 4 year university and had to take college algebra and then finally hit chem... let me tell ya- chemistry as an adult with a life is VERY taxing. 
I stumbled on to a degree in public administration that would allow me to get my degree about 1.5 years faster than the bio. I dropped chem because I simply did not have the time and energy required to do well. 4 semesters of chem were required for a bio major.
I will be graduating this December with a degree in Public Administration, a minor in Political Science and Biology. I figure with the Pub Ad, which readies me for government and nonprofit management level careers, I can work for places like the Nature Conservancy and the like, or weasel my way into local governments and push my environmental agenda.
My passion is being outside and making a difference. But like you, I'd like to get a job that affords me a house, etc. Entry level bio can be low paying! Entry level Pub Ad is not bad....Smart Growth is priceless, and a lot of my classes have centered around that, planning and sustainability....
Good luck! Hope that was of some help.


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## SCMurphy (Jan 28, 2004)

I went to UMass, back when the Biology Department was split into the Zoology and Botany departments. Say Hi to Alan Richmond and Willy Bemis for me when you get there. I got my BS in Zoology and then moved to the other side of Campus and got my MS in Fisheries and Wildlife Management, my thesis was on the Ecology of a Maine High Saltmarsh. I took that to DC and got a job as a fisheries biologist/aquatic ecologist. I work with everything from water quality and quantity to anadromous fish to resident fish to herps to wetlands protection to endagered species protection, etc.

Good luck in school,


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Sean, I'll say hi to them for your Willie is moving to Yale this year, I guess he got an offer he could not refuse. Did you have any classes with a Dr James Walker? He usually teahes evolution, bio, and often classes focused on interesting topics like...the most toxic plants and why they kill you, etc. Technically he's a paleobotanist, even has a few extinct, and thought extinct species named after he and his wife. They are almost my inlaws What years where you there? By the other side of campus do you mean the Stockbridge school?

Thank you both for your responses. It makes me feel better about not starting 'till I am 26 and I feel like I am doing the right thing.


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Dennis,

I was in exactly the same predicament you're finding yourself in just a few short years ago. My first bit of advice is study what you love. Don't worry so much now about what kind of job you'll be able to get the most money or security from and plan your schooling around that. Plan you schooling around your passions and the job stuff will take care of itself. 

If you're only heading there for an undergrad degree don't specialize yourself too much. I've talked with a number of private environmental/geotechnical firms and they want/need folks with a well rounded background *and experience*. Take all the advantage you can of any field courses and summer internships/undergraduate research opportunities you can. Those will really set you apart from the other folks with undergraduate degrees, and even some fresh-out-of-school Master's students.

Helpful Hint #2: Find the degree program that's perfect for you and then minor or second degree in something related, but different to broaden your experiences. I've ended up adding a BA: Earth Sciences to my Environmental Bio degree and it's suddenly made me much more marketable. Any time you can include Soils/Geotechnical skills to your biology resume you're going to get a huge leg up. When it comes to Env. Sciences you can't separate the ground, waters, and living organisms. 

I hate to break it to you, but environmental sciences are heavily math oriented. Experimental biology is all about Stastics and data analysis. Environmental sciences are Physics and Calculus based, and don't get me started on Chemistry. General/Physical Chemistry is all Algebra and Calculus and Organic just sucks.

Looking at the UMass website you've got a lot of options there so it's all dependant on your desires. I don't think there's any type of job in environmental sciences that you can't get a good background for there. You lucky duck. 

Jobs with a BS:

*Laboratory or field technician which is basically a grunt for the "real" scientists doing the "real" research. 

*Environmental consulting firm doing site analysis and remediation. There's a HUGE market for folks with Wetland/Hydrology background in businesses like these. Pay's generally better than a technician, but you're not going to be in the field as much as you may like. There are lots of reports to do in this kind of job.

*Government Agencies such as the EPA, DENR, APHIS, USDA, Forestry Service are a great place to get the most field work for your buck and they generally pay decent for an undergraduate. The problem is they're harder to get and often advanced degrees or years of experience are "not required but are beneficial". This is where summer internships and volunteering are a big help. 

*Non-Profits such as The Nature Conservancy, The Sierra Club, and Ducks Unlimited all have places for environmentalists. More often they prefer folks with Environmental Policy or similar backgrounds. A lot of schmoozing and lobbying with politicians is required for jobs like this though.

Best of luck! 

Regards,
Phil


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## SCMurphy (Jan 28, 2004)

No I didn't know him, I graduated in '86 and then again in '91 (I don't understand graduating in '91 when I defended my thesis in November of '90 and didn't attend school in 91 at all.) I was in Willie's second ichthyology class at UMass. I'll have to chide him about moving to Yale. Hey, I could still go for a Ph.D, if his offer still stands.  He tried to get me to stick around for a few more years but I was schooled out. ](*,)

For my MS I was in the Forestry Department (Holdsworth Hall) where they kept us Fish and Wildlife people under cover. The same department Jeff Corwin got his degree from, I still can't believe some of the things he's willing to do for a camera.:-k I don't know if Joe Larson is still over there but he was one of the original 'wetland delineators'.

I'll gladly tell you it's worth going back to go back to school but I didn't 'start late' personally. I was 26 when I finished, (27 when I was graduated), but many of the people that were in our lab going for Grad degrees were older than that when they started. Al can make you feel down right young starting out, I got my BS a year after him and my MS two years after him.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Dennis, if you understand the majority of the science minded threads here at APC; 
you will do fine. 

I did well with the sciences while I was in school, but had nothing outside of class to apply it to. So for the most part, I either forgot it or we just never got that detailed. (Plus I am now 20 years older - maybe that is it.)

There is SO MUCH of the sciences in understanding this hobby that I am sure that if you understand the big boys and girls (biology, chemistry, botany, environmental, physics gods) here; your mind will absorb so much so much faster that you may expect. 

Take it from an old man - I think you will do great. 

Jim

Do you have the option of electives (outside the sciences) to get the degree?


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## nailalc (Mar 17, 2006)

Out of curiosity, just looking at the almost two years that have passed since updated posts.........how is college going Dennis? Changed majors yet? I did a several times before finally becoming a Biology and Chemistry teacher. Happy re-introduction of a 2005 post.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Any good connections for 24" or longer surgical scissors for trimming aquatic plants at a Wal*Mart price, Dennis? 

I am still looking for something at a price I can afford. I still remember your recommendations. 

Any connections in school? 

How do you like it?


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Wow, it has been almost two years since this thread started. Where does the time go.....

I am in my first semester of my sophomore year and doing well actually. I find that I really do enjoy the math and chemistry though I am not the best at it. I have some basic gen eds done, English, Anthropology, etc and some of my science-y requirements also. I had an envoronemntal science class last semester which was basically introductory Ecology. The Prof. was really nice and I made a good connection with her. I can use her lab whenever I need to use fancy equipment (well, not to fancy), good scales and the like. She also runs the fish toxicology lab and wants me to do a project in there sometime. She also says she can get me a little greenhouse space Emersed culture here I come, next semester.

Overall I am very glad I made this transition. I'm poor, hungry and tired but not to much more than I was before all this. I still don't exactly know what I want to do but every step I am taking now is in the right direction. All the classes would be a requirement of almost any field or major I go into. I will have to declare a tract next year and plan ahead as to how it can/will get me into a grad school that pays


Thanks for bringing this back up


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

dennis said:


> I will have to declare a tract next year and plan ahead as to how it can/will get me into a grad school that pays


I had a bit of a chuckle at this one because grad students are always complaining how broke we are!  If I look back though, I do make a lot more than I did as an undergrad.

Are you a biology major, Dennis? I am a grad student in biology and I TA intro bio, genetics and molecular genetics, so if you ever need any advice on selecting a tract, grad school or just have a question about your genetics homework, feel free to PM me anytime. The best advice I can give you for getting into grad school and being successful once you are there is to work in a lab as an undergrad. It doesn't even matter if it is exactly the sort of work you want to do as a grad student. All experience is good experience.

I'm glad that school is going so well for you.  Good luck with your career in science!


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Thanks Kelley. My major is Environmental Science. Next year I will need to declare a tract, which means I will focus on either biology, conservation, policy or biochemistry. I can also psuedo-design my own tract which I may end up doing. Something that will allow me to focus on wetland function, phytoremediation, etc are my "interests". 

I'll definitely keep your offer of genetics help in mind as well as havig someone to talk grad school stuff with. I don't know very much about it and find that most advisers don't seem to volunteer information that may be helpful or pertinent but instead prefer everyone to continually make all the same repeated mistakes. 

To be perfectly honest, I love teaching and could easily see myself as a college professor, teaching as much as they will let me and researching even more.


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

dennis said:


> To be perfectly honest, I love teaching and could easily see myself as a college professor, teaching as much as they will let me and researching even more.


I think that you will make a great teacher, Dennis! I started out only wanting to do research, but I really do love to teach. It is as rewarding as it is frustrating! And because our lab is poorly funded right now, I teach a lot. I hope to end up as a university professor, too someday. Right now, I work on the genetics of meiosis, but after I graduate, I am thinking of switching to Evo-Devo (the study of the evoltion of animal and/or plant development). It all seems so far away sometimes, though. Sometimes, it seems as though I will never graduate and there is my post-doc after that....


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Glad to hear your classes are progressing well, Dennis! My son, who started college this fall, also thinks he wants to major in environmental science.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Bert, he's welcome to email me if he wants. Where is your son going? I believe Florida has a few good programs for this stuff, IIRC.

Kelley, thanks! My father-in-law is an evolutionary botanist. He and his wife did a bunch of their research (25ish years ago) on the flowering angiosperms- evolution, classification, pollen grain electronmicroscipy. I know they even have a species named after them. Don't ask me what it is though.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Yes, he's going to UF. Thanks for the offer, I'll let him know. I am not certain he's going to end up going that route though. 

I do have to say, that I think there should be plenty of job possibilities for folks in this field in the future. That's a good thing for you folks, but it speaks volumes about environmental issues. But that's another story...


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Dennis, I am glad to hear things are going well for you in school. 

Jim


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