# A few ?s that I have



## K20A2 (Aug 12, 2006)

Hello everyone. There are a few things I have come across, so I wanted to ask here and see what I should do.

Im currently running a penguin biowheel filter on my tank. Its empty as of now, no plants or fish, just water and some plain gravel. I plan on transforming it to a planted tank within a week or two after I get everything sorted out. 

My first question is about the bio wheel. I have read that it will cause a loss of CO2. I dont plan on injected CO2 just yet, but sometime in the near future for sure. Is this true about the wheel? And if so, I assume I should just remove it once I start using CO2?

Another question I have is in regards to carbon. I know this will rob the water of nutrients that the plants need. What is recommended as a substitute to put in the filter instead of the "replacement cartridges" that have the carbon in them? Some sort of pad that is purely mechanical filtration? Also, should I ever use carbon in there? Perhaps for a short duration of time every so often? Is there any benefit to doing this if your tank is planted?

My last question is about rocks. Is there any sort of guideline as to what rocks are ok and which ones are not? I found a lot of dark looking rocks on a path at a local river/lake. I would love to use them but Im not sure if they are going to cause harm to the water. The only thing I can think of is to soak them for a week or so and test the water every night to see what changes, if any, they are going to have on the water.

Thanks in advance for any help.


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## joephys (May 9, 2006)

The biowheel will probably cause some CO2 to gas off if it is injected. If your not injecting, it won't make a difference, and might be benificial to help add a small amount of CO2. If you are going to inject in the future, I would remove the wheel now, so that you aren't taking away a large portion of the bacteria when you do remove it.

I use no carbon in my tanks. It really isn't need and doesn't work for very long. I would just use some sort of filter pad in the filter to trap debris. If you did use the filter pads made for the filter, I don't think the carbon will suck up enough nutrients to make much of a difference. I don't see any need to really ever use carbon. If a tank is taken care of properly, with regular waterchanges, you shouldn't have enough toxins in the tank to be an issue. The only reason carbon might be wanted is if you have drift wood making the water brown. It will help to clear it up.

Most rocks are going to be ok. Make sure you get them from a place that they won't have polution on them. Clean them off very well, and drip some vinigar on them. If the vinigar starts to fizz, then the rocks will affect the water. This might not be a bad thing if you want to harden your water. If the vinigar doesn't fizz, then the rock is inert and will not have any affect on your water.


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## K20A2 (Aug 12, 2006)

Any recomendations on an alternative filter pad with no carbon?

Perhaps these? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231&N=2004+113808


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

> Clean them off very well, and drip some vinigar on them. If the vinigar starts to fizz, then the rocks will affect the water. This might not be a bad thing if you want to harden your water. If the vinigar doesn't fizz, then the rock is inert and will not have any affect on your water.


Great tip!


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Penguin BIO-Wheel. I love mine on my 10 Gallon Tank. 

Yeah, rip out the carbon. Any questions why, ask Rusty at Seachem. Carbon in the filter sucks out all the supplements you put into the tank or something like that. Their booklet H2O2 was very helpful explaining this to me. 

Put your Bio-Wheel on a timer. Have it turn on when your plant lights go out at night time. That way you guarantee that your fish are not negatively affected by the CO2 being diffused during the nighttime
into the aquarium if you choose to do that. 

(I recommend DIY with a 3 liter soda bottle - super easy with any bubbler or ladder in your tank - very affordable and fun to watch).

During the daytime while the BIO-Wheel filter is off and the water surface is still and you have your HIGH LIGHT ON, watch the fireworks with your plants pearling (bubbling) O2 straight up from plant to surface!!! It is the coolest thing to watch! And of course watching the CO2 climb the ladder or from your bubbler diffuser and dissolve causing the plants to pearl. 
It is the best. 

All the best.


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## cwlodarczyk (Sep 18, 2005)

K20A2 said:


> Any recomendations on an alternative filter pad with no carbon?
> 
> Perhaps these? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231&N=2004+113808


The pads you show are fine, otherwise most well stocked LFSs should have cut-to-fit filter material.


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## K20A2 (Aug 12, 2006)

Much thanks to you both. I appreciate the help.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Strange you should say carbon sucks out all the nutrients. I thought this was right for a long time, but apparently it does not remove the nitrates we add/dry chemicals. Maybe someone else can explain again, I would like a refresher.

However, if you will be doing a full out plant tank, then the carbon's filtering properties are probably unnecessary since the plants will take over that function.


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## LunchBox (Jun 9, 2006)

I'm running a penguin on my 10g (I really don't like it much...) and I don't use the cartridges. what I did was buy a 3 pack of aquaclear 50 sponges, cut one of them in half (I just used kitchen scissors), and set 1 whole sponge and the half spoonge in the area behind the bio-wheel. it's been working great for me 

I think the box of sponges cost me 3 bucks or so.


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## K20A2 (Aug 12, 2006)

Something else I was thinking about... Maybe someone could shed some light on this as well..

When using a DIY CO2 injector how is it that the CO2 gets dissolved into the water? To my unexperienced eyes it seems as if it just bubbles in and floats straight to the top of the water. Maybe I am missing a step..
How is it exactly that the plants are able to use it?


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## Wood (Jul 27, 2006)

If I were you this is what I would do:

Substrate: Drain the tank, dump out the gravel, and go get Flourite as a substrate or Onyx (Depending on the color you like). For amount of Flourite to buy: From the Seachem website: One bag is sufficient for about a 5 cm (2 inch) deep bed in a typical 40 L (10 gallon) tank. Recommended use is 1 kg (2 lbs) for approximately each 200 cm2 (31 in2) of tank bottom at a depth of 5 cm (2 in).

Lighting: Make sure you have proper lighting. There are plenty of resources in the forums here to figure out exactly what you should get as far as lighting is concerned.

CO2: Once again, use all the resources and knowledge on the forums here to get a good grasp on what to do as far as CO2. There are many different ways to inject CO2, many different ways to diffuse CO2, and many theories on exactly what works best depending on the setup you wish to have.

Carbon: I have a 10gallon tank running a simple hang on carbon filter and my plants are doing very well. The Rotala wallichii's are very red, the Red Lugwigia is very red and growing fast, and the glossostigma is carpeting the bottom. Carbon does not matter, use it, it is very beneficial.

Rocks: Use the above ammonia method to simply test the rocks.

One thing that I love is called Flourish Excel. It gets rid of the algae and provides some added carbon to help the plants grow, I love the stuff.

Good luck, and be patient.


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## K20A2 (Aug 12, 2006)

Thanks for the responses. 

I have my basics worked out for the most part. I will probably place an order of everything I want sometime this week. Im off of work all next week so I can spend a lot of time setting up the rocks and drifwood, and planting the plants. 

Im going to leave the carbon out and just filter with those pads. For the lighting, its going to be around 2wpg and no CO2 for now. Im going to use excel and see how that works out. Im sticking to fairly simple plants anyway.. Java fern/moss, anubis, and water sprite. 

Thanks for the help so far. Im sure I'll come up with plenty more questions. I'll be keeping a digital log of my tank so I'll be putting up some pics for sure.


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## K20A2 (Aug 12, 2006)

When changing water or adding water... 

Is it recommended to let it sit for a day or so and then put it in the tank? Or, would it be better to use warm water straight from the tap and immediately condition it?

I have some stress coat coming my way. Can that be used to eliminate all chlorine and chloramine instantly so you can use warm water for your water changes?


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## Wood (Jul 27, 2006)

If you have a heater I would NOT use warm water at all. Just use the regular tap, the heater will take care of it. Stress Coat is great stuff, removes chlorine and chloramine and helps the protective coat of the fish. 

When I do water changes I just pour in the water straight from the tap, and then condition it. The chlorine gets removed very fast, and I have NEVER had a problem this way. I have several rummy nose tetras and it does not affect them at all, and these fish are fragile.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

> I have a 10gallon tank running a simple hang on carbon filter and my plants are doing very well. The Rotala wallichii's are very red, the Red Lugwigia is very red and growing fast, and the glossostigma is carpeting the bottom. Carbon does not matter, use it, it is very beneficial.


Wood, could you post a digital photo of your tank. I would love to see it.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

> Strange you should say carbon sucks out all the nutrients. I thought this was right for a long time, but apparently it does not remove the nitrates we add/dry chemicals. Maybe someone else can explain again, I would like a refresher.


 Interesting question. I was repeating information that I have been given and believed. Please let me know if this is correct or not. If not, then I replaced my carbon filter with Seachem Purigen for no reason. But I have found that the information that I have received in the past from Seachem has been reliable. It has been explained to me in the past about ions and cations. It has to do with the electrical charge that chemicals have and how carbon reacts or absorbs them.

Let me know what you find. It is always good to have a refresher. I agree.


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## Wood (Jul 27, 2006)

Jimbo205 said:


> Wood, could you post a digital photo of your tank. I would love to see it.


I don't have a digi. I really want an SLR especially because of the closeup pics you can take. If I am going to be taking pics of tanks there is no reason not to get one. I have seen some unbelievable pics taken with an SLR of freshwater shrimp, unreal quality. The only problem: $$$. Those things are really expensive.

The biggest problem I have with the 10 gallon is that it is so small any fluctuations are severely maximized given the small tank size. With the DIY CO2 that I use it is difficult to sustain a consistent amount diffused. I use the bell method which helps a bit, but the Flourish Excel is such a great resource. I have 2 empty 29gallon tanks that once I move in a couple of weeks I will set them up. I like color a lot in my tanks. I like Amano's tanks, but they are mostly green. I am more of a Dutch style fan.


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## K20A2 (Aug 12, 2006)

Everything came yesterday, delivered right to my door. Three boxes total, thanks to the bags of eco complete. 

Currently in my tank is a half inch of regular colored black gravel. Im planning on adding more regular gravel in some parts and then putting the eco complete on top. Mainly to create some elevated areas for a decent visual effect. 

What Im wondering is, how deep is to deep with the gravel? And will eco complete sitting on top of regualr gravel cause any kind of build up of unwanted bacteria?


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

K2OA2, people say that my substrate is too deep. But lots of time people say it is a personal opinion. You have an excellent question about the bacteria. I look forward to seeing the responses. 

Wood, can afford a cheap digital camera? Or borrow whatever from a buddy? Your description makes me want to see your tanks even more. Tell me more about your DIY CO2. I have it myself and have a number of questions. (Like do you wait until it stops or just recharge it every 2 weeks?)


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## Wood (Jul 27, 2006)

Jimbo205 said:


> K2OA2, people say that my substrate is too deep. But lots of time people say it is a personal opinion. You have an excellent question about the bacteria. I look forward to seeing the responses.
> 
> Wood, can afford a cheap digital camera? Or borrow whatever from a buddy? Your description makes me want to see your tanks even more. Tell me more about your DIY CO2. I have it myself and have a number of questions. (Like do you wait until it stops or just recharge it every 2 weeks?)


I am going to try to borrow a friends digital camera, but it is a very simple one. I will probably take pictures this coming weekend and will post them if I do for sure.

The DIY CO2 I have is the most common one for a 10gallon. I am using a 20ounce coke bottle, hole drilled in the cap, tubing run inside about an inch, sealed with aquarium sealant. I run the tubing inside the tank and underneath the gravel (for aesthetic purposes) and barely poke the airstone out of the substrate. Right above the airstone I have a small piece of plastic turned upside down so that it holds CO2. I make a new batch of yeast and sugar roughly every 2 weeks. I am using A LOT of light, 54watts of 5500k, thats a lot for a 10 gallon.

With the amount of light I am using, the plants aren't getting enough CO2 in proportion with the light. This deficiency results in all of the plants to be miniature, even though they are very healthy otherwise. All red plants are nice and red, the Tiger Lotus looks real nice with a dark red color, the wallichii has nice dark pink tips, the rotala indica is a bright lime green which is really cool because I have so much red. The one thing I really like about having a lot of light, and not enough CO2, is the miniaturization of all the plants given the tank size. It looks kind of cool in my opinion, like a shrunk a 50 gallon into a 10. Some might say that I am stunting my plants on purpose, which is true, although I am preventing their growth size without restricting nutrients, etc. It is an interesting experiment with such a small tank, because I did not want to have to prune the 10 gallon once a week. I dose ferts according to the plant size, not tank size, I do not want to overdose since I am restricting CO2.

Having so much light can be an algae issue. I use flourish excel to help combat it, and it also supplies some additional carbon. I have 5 otto's and 2 snails which do a good job. The 10 ghost shrimp I have also nibble a bit too. once a week I change water 50% which I find is a must with a 10 gallon. Having such a small tank size is much more difficult than having a larger tank. (I used to have a 55gallon planted but a friend bought it a while back.) Trying to manage so many different things in such a small unforgiving tank can be challenging, but I like challenges. CO2, fertilizers, water changes, constant vacuuming to prevent ammonia spikes, fish health, etc. It is a great learning experience if you can take a 10 gallon and keep it in good form. I have seen some beautiful 10 gallons on the AGA Contests which gave me the inspiration. A lot of time and effort was put in those. If you slip up on a 10 gallon you can pay dearly.

I have 5 rummynose tetras which are real healthy, and a honey gourami. The honey has become very orange, I only feed them zooplankton and shrimp pellets. They LOVE the zooplankton. Watching the rummynose go crazy when I put some zooplankton in the tank is really cool. The gourami just shovels in as much as he can at once, like a vacuum cleaner.

When I get one of my 29 gallons up and running it wil be much different. The 10 gallon will become a shrimp only tank, and the 29 gallon will be done more high tech. It will have 3.2watts/gallon 6700k (instead of 5.4) and bottle co2 with the works (6.8ph). I will also be using ADA soil and sand. I will definitely do an extensive journal on it even if I have to buy a temp digi (SLR vs. high tech tank). It will be at least a month though before I start on it. I will be attempting the Dutch style for the first time. I will try to terrace the soil somehow (havent figured out yet how I will). I also have another empty 29 gallon which I will most likely try amano style for the first time as well but much later. I love what the Senske brothers have done with amano style, especially with the hardscaping.

WOW, I have typed a lot. I need to get back to work. (I don't have a computer at home anymore, I somehow ruined my 6 year old dell desktop motherboard installing ram and finding a replacement motherboard to fit the old case seems to be impossible because they want you to buy a new computer) Basically I need a whole new technological upgrade, hehe: Laptop, SLR, bottle CO2


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

A man after my own heart. If you can't post the photos to show it, paint the picture with words. I LOVE IT!!!!

I will read your post again and again. 

So, how do you keep the algae at bay? Just with Excel? 

With your comments on the 10 Gallon Tank. Unless I build my confidence with my 10 Gallon Tank, I can't bring myself to justify to my wife getting a 55 gallon tank, unless I definitely KNOW what I am doing exactly. She already thinks I spend a ton of $$$ on my plants. ( I don't.)

And with the way on APC that there are about 3-8 different answers to the same question makes everything much more complex. I mean, I love these people I do, but only Seachem gives me straight answers that are predictable, reliable and understandable every single time. 

I will get there. But it will take time. 

I look forward to see your many photos using photobucket! You paint a wonderful picture with your words. Please do not stop. 

Thank you again for the post. Your buddy, Jimbo205


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## Wood (Jul 27, 2006)

I keep the algae at bay with excel, the 5 otto's, 2 snails, and more importantly vacuuming the gravel to remove waste at least twice a week. With the fish I have, and the ottos, a lot of waste accumulates pretty fast. The bacteria cant keep up with the waste due to small tank size so ammonia can build real fast. Also frequent water changes, at least 50% a week. The excel has definitely helped A LOT.

I used to have rotala magenta (macrandra v. narrow) in the tank, but I had a vicious algae bloom (didn't vacuum as much as I do now) about a month and half ago which killed it off, or so I thought. I just noticed the other day that a single stem survived somehow and is growing well, a decent red, but not as red as it can get. Mine looks just like this, but a little less red: (click for pic) It is a beautiful plant, but is delicate and hard to keep. It is especially hard to establish I have found, and once it starts growing I highly recommend that it doesnt get moved, it doesnt seem to like its roots getting pulled up.

The Wallichiis are red, but are somewhat skinny, a symtom of the lack of CO2 and too much light I am using, which is the one plant I am not visually happy with. I may remove it, not sure yet. Mine looks similar to this: (click for pic) but a little skinnier than that.

I absolutely LOVE the Rotala rotundifolia
Green, mine looks like this: (click for pic) It really is a beautiful bright green plant that grows fast.

The Red Ludwigia Broadleaf I have looks almost identical to this: (click for pic). I like it a lot. I had it in my 55 gallon. It is a real easy plant to grow, not demanding, and you can make it nice and bushy to make it a background plant.

I will try to get a pic of the tank. I pruned it not too long ago to make the ludwigia more bushy, and to spread the rotala green around. A lot of the glosso had to be removed because algae covering it, it was the original glosso from the LFS. Unfortunately during the algae bloom I had, a lot of it got covered and the otto's, excel, and snails, can't get the algae off such a small plant it seems.

Back to work. Hope you enjoyed another rambling post


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Yes!


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## Wood (Jul 27, 2006)

OK, I managed to take some pictures with my camera phone. They are not that good of quality, but will do I suppose.  It was really hard to get the plants in the back to come out in the pics.

I pruned the tank this past weekend, so some plants are short. Here is the left half of the tank with the rummy nose swimming...








Here is one where you can see the mini red tiger lotus, in the middle.









The right side of the tank with the wallichii that I am going to remove. The algae bloom destroyed it and the lack of CO2 isnt helping. I will remove it tomorrow. You can see the red temple that I pruned, it is small, and also the dwarf aquarium lily.









One of my otto's









Another... You can barely see the leftover glosso. I learn from my mistakes, don't let another algae bloom occur ..









Hope you enjoyed.... those are Anubia Barteri


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## El Exorcisto (Aug 10, 2006)

I found that trying to start out "slow" with java moss/fern, and anubias was more of a headache than a benefit. Their slow growth is tough in the beginning, of course anyone new wants to see results fast. It's a lot easier to start out with everything than to try to build up. Put together a DIY CO2 reactor temporarily, strap a bit more light on top (two $3 clamp lamps and a pair of 25w CF spirals from home depot will give you what you need), and fill the tank with some fast growing stem plants. Move onto the finer points like anubias and java moss once you know how to run your tank and keep algae at bay. Once you're there, buy a pressurized bottle, nice PC lighting, and maybe try your hand at aquascaping, as that's where the slow growers and low-lighters really shine.


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## K20A2 (Aug 12, 2006)

I just got finished planting my tank today. For substrate I went with eco complete. Lighting is provided by a coralife 65w fixture. I buried a couple pieces of pvc pipe, added some sweet looking driftwood, and a few rocks as well. 

For the plants I managed to score some sort of micro sword, java fern, java moss, and a lot of water wisteria. Im rather pleased with the final layout of the wood, rocks and plants. 

I havent added any ferts yet. What is recommended as a decent time to start dosing anything? 

Im planning on introducing a few fish sometime this week. Most likely some cory cats. Do you guys think they will disturb my newly planted plants?

I'll post some pics of the tank real soon. My didi cam battery is charging at the moment.


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## Wood (Jul 27, 2006)

My half gallon at work. Fish loves it. No filtration, just manual water change every other day. He eats like a horse.


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## K20A2 (Aug 12, 2006)

Im looking for another plant that grows as fast and is as easy to grow as water wisteria. Something with a different leaf shap though. Still a stem plant too. 

Im going to start looking around, but in the meantime...any reccomendations?


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