# *Ancient Forest* humus



## JButera (Oct 3, 2015)

Has anyone tried this or its equivalent in their aquarium? From what I gather, it's very stable and pretty much completed the decomposing process having little to zero organic material in it. Plus it has a decent CEC level and good amount of microorganisms. Would it be possible to cut this with sand, maybe 1:1..and forget about doing a cap? Is it possible for water to become stained from a material that's completely decomposed, or would tannins still be an ongoing issue? ~Thanks for reading. http://www.planetnatural.com/product/ancient-forest-humus/


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

See below:



JButera said:


> Has anyone tried this or its equivalent in their aquarium? From what I gather, it's very stable and pretty much completed the decomposing process having little to zero organic material in it. *Humus is, by definition, 100% organic material.*Plus it has a decent CEC level and good amount of microorganisms. *Terrestrial microorganisms are unlikely to survive submergence.*Would it be possible to cut this with sand, maybe 1:1.. *Yes.* and forget about doing a cap? *No, you still need a cap.*Is it possible for water to become stained from a material that's completely decomposed, or would tannins still be an ongoing issue? *Depends on the original material of the humus before it decomposed. Some could still release tannins.*~Thanks for reading. http://www.planetnatural.com/product/ancient-forest-humus/


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## JButera (Oct 3, 2015)

Thanks Michael but isn't humus organic *matter* and not organic *material*? Doesn't humus start out as organic *material* (branches leaves etc) then after it fully decomposes it's called organic *matter*? So by definition wouldn't humus be considered 100% organic *matter*?


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## JButera (Oct 3, 2015)

article on organic matter and organic material: http://www.noble.org/ag/soils/organicmatter/


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

All due respect to the Noble Foundation (which has fantastic image gallery of native prairie plants), most people use the terms interchangeably.

The term used does not affect the qualities of the substance I noted.


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## JButera (Oct 3, 2015)

I'm thinking term use does matter (no pun intended) especially when they mean completely different things, which in this case they do; at least for me they do. My original question was in reference to humus and water staining and only mentioned adding sand only to lighten up the color of the substrate, my apologies for not being more clear. That particular bag of humus is going to cost over $32 shipped and I'm hesitating in buying it, thinking I'm just wasting more money on another material that's going to make my water look like tea, also I'm trying to avoid doing any type of cap.


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## AKnickolai (Nov 30, 2007)

If you're going to to any type of dirt based substrate you will need a cap. Humus is a great thing to add to your dirt though. I use a mix of mineralized dirt, Turface (or clay), humus, azomite, and sprinkle osmocote plus all mixed together then cap with a substrate of your liking.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

I would look around locally to find a very fine organic matter, perhaps peat moss, perhaps some other well composted material. Anything like this is likely to stain the water, though. 
To get the benefit of small particles (CEC) without the staining, look into montmorillonite clay. Turface, Safe-T-Sorb, and related materials. They are rather lightweight. Any cap (sand, gravel) is probably going to sink through them. I have blended a few that way: Trying for separate areas, ending up with the heavier material on the bottom over time. 
Now, I just use Safe-T-Sorb straight. No cap. I put a small amount of slow release fertilizer on the bottom of the tank before adding substrate.


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## JButera (Oct 3, 2015)

Diana K said:


> I would look around locally to find a very fine organic matter, perhaps peat moss, perhaps some other well composted material. Anything like this is likely to stain the water, though.
> To get the benefit of small particles (CEC) without the staining, look into montmorillonite clay. Turface, Safe-T-Sorb, and related materials. They are rather lightweight. Any cap (sand, gravel) is probably going to sink through them. I have blended a few that way: Trying for separate areas, ending up with the heavier material on the bottom over time.
> Now, I just use Safe-T-Sorb straight. No cap. I put a small amount of slow release fertilizer on the bottom of the tank before adding substrate.


hey Diana, I experimented with sand and turface (in a container) and after some water movement the sand went right to the bottom and turface just laid on top. Funny thing you mentioned small particles cuz I just added some of that brownish gravel from one of those adf enclosures from Brookstone and even after stirring the water really insanely the sand and gravel still stayed mixed (turface went straight to the top of course). If that Brookstone* gravel has any decent levels of CEC then that may be a combo that might work, but I'm thinking it's just plain old aquarium gravel.


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## JButera (Oct 3, 2015)

The Brookstone* gravel:



 it's regular aquarium gravel with a biofilm and most likely little to no CEC. *sigh*


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

I have a 4.5 nano tank set up a few weeks ago, in which I used the typical Mineralized Top Soil with some red clay, and added about 10 - 15 % Ancient Forest Humus. (yep, that same brand). 

So far, so good. Plants are all establishing nicely; Bylxa japonica, cyperus (not helferi, a dwarf kind I'm blanking on the name), H. polysperma 'Rosenzweig', Staurogyne repens and some no-ID ludwigia. 

There is a lot of attention on humates and fulvates, and the beneficial effect on plant growth, particularly if you wander into the hydroponics areas. It seems like it should be a good addition, but like most things, just not to excess. 

-Jane


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