# Local Biotope for North American Native fish



## RESET (Oct 12, 2010)

OK, Here is the deal. I have a new 75 gallon tank. I want to keep North American Native fish in it. I also prefer planted tanks. I would like to set this tank up as an El Natural with Native plants. Can some one direct me to some good native plants for this tank? I can get duck weed from the ditch next to my property but there are no true submerged plants there. I live about a mile from a river but there are no real plants in there either. What I would really like is some common names with their scientific names and possibly a pic. I live in Central Iowa and would love to collect my plants. If there are some more hardy plants found in other states, I would love to know about them as well.

I am basically looking for some shorter ground cover type plants, some taller accent plants and maybe some that grow all the way to the top of the water and produce some flowers. My water level is usually pretty high but I think I can lower it a bit to accommodate these.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Mermaid weeds (_Proserpinaca palustris _and _P. pectinata _)
_Echinodorus cordifolius_
_Eleocharis parvula _and _E. microcarpa _(maybe a couple other species of hairgrass)
Eel grass (_Vallisneria americana _)
_Polygonum hydropiperoides _(Pepper Weed, Water Pepper, Smart Weed)

Look those up for now. Also you can do a search in the USDA Plants DataBase and do a search by your state. You can also google "US Native Aquatic Plants".

-Dave


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Oooooh, Local Biotopes ROCK! There's a great thread you might reference in the large aquariums sub-forum that I think is called 125 gallon bluegill tank of something similar to that.

In Iowa there are a couple folks who do wetland determinations with the USDA-NRCS. Two names that come to mind are Jim Gertsma and Mark Lindflott (I hope I spelled those correct). You can look them up in the directory by going to http://offices.sc.egov.usda.gov/employeeDirectory/app?state=ia.

They might have some good places in mind to find the plants you're looking for. I'm from Texas, so I'm unfamiliar with the area, but I've met some folks in Iowa at some wetland trainings this year.

Will this be your 'official' thread for this tank? I'd like to see how it develops as you build the scape. I like the native set ups.


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## SueNH (Jan 17, 2005)

try looking in a bass pond right near a stream running into it. That's where I've spotted the most plants. The rest are in ditches that stay wet most of the year. Different Ludwigias come to mind.

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/plants/mnplant/index.htm#contents


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Take a look at this web site:
http://joesnowaquaticplants.com/

Although located in North Texas, there may be some of the same or related plants in your area. If you look on the availability list, most species are linked to a photograph and brief description. Unlike most native aquatic plant lists, this one is divided into submerged, emergent, floating, etc. This helps when considering which might work as (mostly) submerged aquarium plants.

Glad you started the topic! It made me start thinking about doing the same thing, LOL.

--Michael


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Reset, perhaps if you tell us what area you are in it would help. Different regions have different plants. Are you just wanting North America anywhere?


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Oh, also find out if there are any spring-fed rivers or streams in your state. A friend of mine and I just went to a river in Texas that is 72F year-round and saw a wonderful array of native plants that are suited to aquariums.


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## RESET (Oct 12, 2010)

WOW, lots of info to digest here. I will research the plants listed by Dave and see what I can find. I have been looking at DNR lists of local fish but never thought of something similar for plants. Thanks for the names and links mudboots.

I will make this my official thread as suggested and will post pics and such as I go along. This will be slow so keep checking in.

As I said, I live in Central Iowa near Marengo and would love to collect my own plants locally. It is getting late in the year and everything will be frozen soon. I may have to buy on line just to get my plants.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

With an El Natural tank, you really need to plant densely from the begining. If you can't get the native species you want at first, don't hesitate to use some common, inexpensive species to start the tank. You can always replace them with natives later as you find them.

_Vallisneria americana _should be readily available on line, and is easy in moderately hard and alkaline water.


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## ddavila06 (Jan 31, 2009)

anacharis is pretty common here in va...i pulled it out of the potomac while fishing several times and is available at most pet stores. is known for being a good "sponge" plant as it sucks up a lot of nutrients and even contaminants quite well  if you don't have enough plants that will help get your natural tank started. any ideas what you will do fishwise yet?

btw, i did not know e. cordifolius was north american native, great thread! post pics please!!


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## RESET (Oct 12, 2010)

Thanks, I had V. spirallis in my Asian tank. I was hoping that there was a native val. 

Fish will be 6-8 small sunfish, I am leaning to wards blue spotted, and a large school of redfin shiners. I wanted to have some darters as well but I don't think the natural planted would do well with the current needed.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Anacharis (Eigeria densa) is actually from South America. There are a lot of different native U.S. Vallisneria varieties, and most of them are rather large. Here is a picture of E. cordifolius which is common in the ditches here in Central Mississippi in spite of efforts to kill all the ditch plants with roundup.


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## SueNH (Jan 17, 2005)

There is elodea. Grows clear into Canada but it likes the water cool. Some in a small lake near here. I've never had it survive long in my tanks. I think I keep the water too warm.

http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wq/plants/native/elodea.html


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## RESET (Oct 12, 2010)

That Cordi looks cool. I will have to keep an eye on my ditches and see if there is any here. 

Speaking of ditches, my fauna has been dictated by mother nature. While on a walk yesterday I came across a small section of drainage ditch that had some small fish in it. I netted some out later and they look to be green sunfish and fathead minnows. I found another larger area that was teaming with bullheads. I now have four bullhead, 8 or 10 greenies and about a dozen of the minnows in my tank. It will be fun housing them when it comes time to drain the water to put in my substrate and plants. I have one large piece of drift wood in there and my leftover V. spirallis. The spirallis will come out when I have my native plants ready to go in.

I say that it was dictated because these drainage ditches normally don't have water in them and they will be dry or frozen solid in the next couple weeks.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Sounds awesome. Did you happen to snap any pics of the critters you brought home? I can't help but wonder how long those minnows will last with the bullheads in the tank. Those fish will eat anything the can ALMOST fit in their mouth!


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## RESET (Oct 12, 2010)

Here are some indiv pics and a tank shot.


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## RESET (Oct 12, 2010)

Here are some more shots. I will take a full shot tonight when it gets dark enough.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

That's a great find for just a little ditch-diving!


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## PeterE (Feb 9, 2010)

Isn't ditch diving fun? I recently caught an orange spotted sunfish, which are as good looking as pretty much any other fish I've seen. Your green sunfish is really pretty. They are actually pretty rare in most lakes up here. Those bullheads make me remember when I had a bulllhead in my first ten gallon tank. He actually wasn't that aggressive except to weaker fathead minnows that I put in with him. He would go up to those and shake them like a dog. I have madtoms now, which stay small and are just as cool. I can't wait to see more pictures; North American biotopes are excellent!


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

That's awesome! It makes me want to set up my next 125 as a native habitat. My concern is that I am an NPT nut and I worry that the fish will dig around in the substrate creating a nightmare in the tank. I like the pots for the plants by the way. Is that permanent or are you still deciding on substrate and placement?


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## RESET (Oct 12, 2010)

mudboots said:


> That's awesome! It makes me want to set up my next 125 as a native habitat. My concern is that I am an NPT nut and I worry that the fish will dig around in the substrate creating a nightmare in the tank. I like the pots for the plants by the way. Is that permanent or are you still deciding on substrate and placement?


The bowls are just temporary until I do my local biotope NPT. Those vals and crypt are Asian so they will need to find a different home once I find my native plants. The ditches around here may have yielded some decent fish but they are lacking in foliage. Probably since they are dry most of the time. I have duck weed under the bridge near me but that is it.

In order to overcome the issue with the fish making a mess of the tank, I think I am going to follow a "recipe" I recently read about. It involves a much deeper gravel layer over the dirt layer than described in the normal NPT process. I will have the normal 1 inch of soil but probably 2 or 3 inches of sandy gravel, which I also sourced from a local river. I will see if I can find a link to the e-book that I read.

EDIT: Here ya go. An awesone read for NPT and native fish people alike.
http://farmertodd.com/pdfs/native_fish_tank.pdf


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## RESET (Oct 12, 2010)

I know this isn't the ID section but I am hoping that you guys can help me out. Here are the plants I found that I thought might be aquatic or at least semi aquatic. Any winners here?

The item of interest in the first pic is the one with the purple leaves. I can take my camera out and get a better pic of needed, these are from my phone. I am thinking that the second one is some sort of willow tree. I was hoping that I could try rooting some trimmings to help suck up some excess nutrients. I doubt the flowering one is aquatic but I think the leaves are cool.


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## SueNH (Jan 17, 2005)

3rd one is hairgrass. It's getting ready to go to sleep.

The one with the yellow flowers grows in wet soil but not underwater for long. I've got it growing in my ditches here.


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## RESET (Oct 12, 2010)

Tanks for the ID on the hairgrass. I think I will go take a plug of it and test grow some under water to be sure.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

The second one is willow. The last one is genus, Bidens. It produces the two-pronged 'sticktights'


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## PeterE (Feb 9, 2010)

Do you have any clear lakes near you? Those are the ones that are usually filled with plants up here. That substrate article was really cool, by the way. I really want to try it out.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

I enjoyed the artilcle. I'll keep this in mind for the future set up. Thanks for sharing.


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## RESET (Oct 12, 2010)

Man, I hate those sticktight things. I have never seen one so small or not all dried up, didn't even recognize it. 

After some research, I think I got too excited about the hairgrass. I didn't realize that there was an aquatic and a non-aquatic plant with the same name. Darn.

So, I basically struck out on the ditch plants. Unless the willow is the one that I am thinking of that I can put some cuttings in the water and have it take root, sucking up some excess nutrients while I wait for some more plants. What do you think? will that work?


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## RESET (Oct 12, 2010)

PeterE said:


> Do you have any clear lakes near you? Those are the ones that are usually filled with plants up here. That substrate article was really cool, by the way. I really want to try it out.


There are lakes around but none in walking distance of my house. I am prety sure that I will need some sort of license to collect plants at a state park, where the lakes are. And to think that I used to just throw the "weeds" on the bank when I was fishing.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

You might contact your local game personnel. Each state has its own rules on collecting, and some, like Texas, are no problem at all as long as you are not collecting endangered plants or plants on the noxious/invasive list.


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## RESET (Oct 12, 2010)

I think I will go the retail or hobbiest route. It is safer and easier.

I am thinking I want some V. americana, some E. parvula and some P. pectinata and maybe a couple Echinodorus cordifolius. The Val would be used a boarder plants to break up line of sight as would the Proserpinaca. The hairgrass would be used as small bedding areas and the rest open gravel. How many of each plant would I need to effectively start this NPT?


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Not sure exactly how much of each, but you definitely want to overestimate and get it as densely planted from the start as you can.

Some of those species you want have been in the for-sale-or-trade forum recently. You might want to post a want to buy post in there; generally you get more for your money that way.


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## RESET (Oct 12, 2010)

I saw them in there too. I just need to figure out how many I want so I can start a WTB thread. I saw the V. americana in there for $0.75 each, that is a really good deal.

I need to do a little research on the pectinata and cordifolius to see how they propogate in the wild. I know the other two are runners. How does a runner get established in a totaly new location? Does the new plant get seperated from the runner and float away then get snagged on something and take root?


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

I've seen runners come up and over from a "mother" plant and then simply fall over eventually and take root; you could just as easily cut and plant. On my Amazon swords that used to be in the 125 the runners would shoot straight up in the air; had I not cut them they'd have gotten rather long to be visually appealing.


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## RESET (Oct 12, 2010)

I have had vals do the same thing. I was just wondering how it works in the wild. Now that I think about it, my vals have flowered, that is probably how they start a new colony. Kinda like cat tails, the colony spreads by sending out runners but the cat tail also seeds to spread further faster. "says the noob to the wetland specialist"


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## Noto (Oct 26, 2009)

_Proserpinaca_, when in water, roots at stem nodes and forms spreading mats, much like _Myriophyllum_, some _Ludwigia_, and various other "stem" plants. I seem to recall seeing wild _Echinodorus cordifolius_ in tight clumps, so I would guess it sends out short runners, much like its close cousins the arrowheads (_Sagittaria_).

Keep searching for local aquatics- I bet you can find more! Mudflats along protected bays of reservoirs are often productive, as are eddies and backwaters of large creeks. Also take a look at waterfowl management areas (just not during duck season!).

Mudboots- I would love to see you set up a big native tank! You don't have to use substrate-shifters like bullheads and most sunfish; native killies, livebearers, minnows, darters, and so on would work well in a planted tank.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

@ RESET - Hah! By the way, cattails remind me of a hilareous restoration project I set up once. One of the "scientists" inspecting it after 2 seasons of growth complained that the seed mix "the person" used was no good because it had too many cattails in it (he did not seed herbaceous veg, only a few species of trees that were not available for planting), and he was concerned that they would take over the micro-depressions. Nevermind the fact that a good stand was on the adjacent county road in the ditch!!! I calmed him by explaining that sometimes they just come in on their own and that I was pleased just to see the system working (they were in the lows with OBL and FACW species, a mix of herbaceous species ranging from FAC to FACW on the flats, and FACU veg on the highs).

@Noto - It's only been a little while and I am already trying to find things to stare at since I broke down the big tank. At least I still have my Wetland-n-a-Box at the temporary home and my picotope at work. It's going to be a LONG several months...but yes, I'd definitely like to try out some native the next round.


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## RESET (Oct 12, 2010)

I gathered a good bunch of hornwart and put it in my tank. When I collected it, I dipped that small container into the water and then scooped up the wart with my hand and put it in the container. When I got it home I saw that there were a couple daphnia swimming around in it. I am going to keep the water for a wile to see if they will breed/multiply. 

There seems to be another small unidentified plant in there with the hornwart scraps. It has really small/undeveloped leaves on it right now but it looks to be growing so I will post up in the ID section later. There is some kind of egg sack on it. I wonder what those could be, probably pond snails.

I got two stems of pond weed from the same location and I am trying to root them in another container full of tank water with the hair grass that I am testing.


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## RESET (Oct 12, 2010)

Well, it is finally time to start gathering the plants that I have decided on. I tried to post a WTB in the for sale/trade but I needed one more post to meet the minimum so... 

Anyway, if you are keeping an eye on this thread and have any of the plants mentioned above, please visit my new WTB thread and let me know what you have.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Don't forget that there are many different stem plants that are natives that we tend to forget are natives based on their use in aquaria, such as various Ludwigia sps, Bacopa sps, mosses and so on. Some, like Ludwigia brevipes or Fissidens fontanus are really nice looking to boot.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Reset, I recently collected some _Potomageton nodosus _(or similar species) for my pond. On a whim I planted a few scraggly pieces in my Endler's tank. It is performing well, growing stems and slender, translucent leaves up to the surface.

This is an El Natural 10 gallon that gets bright diffuse light from a window and 26watts of 6500L compact spiral flourescent from a desk lamp. It is unheated and this time of year has a daily temperature range of 68 to 70 degrees F. Other plants doing well in the tank are Hygro 'Sunset', vallisneria, Java fern, Java moss, and _Cryptocoryne wendtii_ 'Tropica'.

If you can't find any in your area, let me know and I can send you some.

--Michael


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## jerrybforl (Jul 22, 2008)

Hey guys looks great. Im here in South Florida and thinking about doing an Everglades biotope...there is an array of plants that I can collect. not all from here but grow here in the glades. Anachorus, hairgrass, bacopa carolina and monneri, cabomba purple, the list goes on and on. I would love to use Flag fish with maybe some gambezi and silver sailfin mollies!


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## Franco (Jun 25, 2010)

Hey Reset,
You are over near the Amana colonies, correct? I live in Johnston now but last summer I worked for the DNR up in Boone doing aquatic vegetation surveys on over 100 lakes and ponds around the state. I saw more aquatic plants than I ever thought possible here in IA.
Like you have already found, horwort or coontail is readily available like EVERYWHERE. You just have to look for it. You will also find a lot of potomogeton species and elodea canadensis is also very common. You don't need a license or anything to collect from state parks but it is illegal to transport invasive species. The most common that you will find are curly leaf pondweed, brittle naiad, and eurasian water milfoil. They make great aquarium plants but don't let a conservation officer see you with them. Even if you didn't have invasives and got spotted by the COs, you might still get in a heap of trouble because they can't tell one plant from the next.
I am not condoning the intentional transport of invasive aquatics! I am just giving you a heads up in case you decide to be ornery.
If you are really wanting some native vals, they are out there, too. Here in Iowa, the DNR calls them wild celery, eelgrass, and tapegrass. If I remember correctly they are V. americana.
If you have marshes nearby for duck hunting, you will find aquatic plants because the ducks eat them and the seeds and spread them around, hence how the invasive species jump across the state.
You will likely have to wait until next spring because most of the aquatic veg dies off pretty early in the fall.
I think the Hannen Park pond has a few species of aquatics if you live close to there.
If you aren't finding ANY aquatic plants in a body of water in the summer, then it probably has grass carp (terrible terrible beasts).


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Sounds like it's time to start planning a field trip!!! Too bad it's too far for most of the rest of us for a road trip...


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

This is a very interesting thread!

What I would like to see though is someone doing a high tech aquascaped tank with only native American plants and fish.

That's how Amano rekindled the interest in this hobby - providing an eye candy. We have enough native plants to play with. Amano has a tank from 2002 or so that is the essence of simplicity - two groups of low laying rocks under elegant and sparse stems of... Chara! The tank leaves you with the feeling of something very simple, elaborate, beautiful and fragile.

I've tried only 3 kinds of Native plants (one was an algae - Chara). I don't count Bacopa and hairgrass in that. Potamogetons tend to try go get to the surface as soon as they can. Najas, Chara, and H.dubia are perfect aquarium plants - even for a 74F tank. Except that Amano shrimp LOVE the taste of Chara - 2-3 Amanos can chew up a 1" piece of the algae in a few hours. Smaller species of native freshwater shrimp would work in such a native American tank.

Some of the native fish are looking truly stunning. I have seen pictures of shiners and such and all I can say is "wow!". Maybe someone will give some overview on the conditions these fish require - temperature above all.

--Nikolay


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Here it is - the ADA Chara only tank:










I've seen one single ADA tank that had some Potamogeton in it. The texture/color of the leaves is really, really nice. Nothing like it. But I guess the growing behavior of that plant kept Amano from using it more.

--Nikolay


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Once the leaves on my Potomageton reach the surface, the submerged foliage deteriorates. This is in a 10 gallon El Natural tank with medium light levels--higher light and CO2 might give different results. I still like the plant, and would like to try it in a larger tank.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

niko said:


> Some of the native fish are looking truly stunning. I have seen pictures of shiners and such and all I can say is "wow!". Maybe someone will give some overview on the conditions these fish require - temperature above all.
> --Nikolay


Kind of depends on which species and where you found them (stream, river, lake, pond...). Most that I can think of that would be suitable for planted aquaria would be fine in cooler tanks without a heater, but not in need of a chiller, so you'd just be managing temps for plant growth. But temps too warm (like high 70's and 80's) might be inappropriate for most except those species found in stagnant or shallow pools.

You can find good info by searching the species you are interested in in your state's wildlife service website, which will tell you where the species spends most of its time and what the temperatures are in such areas. This will also give you an idea of how much water movement they like...


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## popomon (Oct 12, 2010)

man, i live in washington (not DC). wish i could find fish and plants up here  i go to a small stream/river in my forest and i haven't seen a single fish out of my many many visits. Never really seen any aquatic plants either.


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## Franco (Jun 25, 2010)

I forgot about chara. We have that growing all over Iowa. I have never been able to get it to survive in an aquarium. In the wild, here in Iowa, it uses the carbonates in the hard water and gets a calcium crust over it. It stinks like rancid onions hence one of its common names, muskgrass.

Something really cool that I found this spring was Echinodorus berteroi growing all around the edge of a little stormwater retention pond in Ames, Iowa. I didn't know it was an Echinodorus at the time but grabbed some and it grew wonderfully in a little soil substrate pond tank on my deck. I would have never thought that there would be a native sword this far north. It blossomed a couple of times and formed at least a 10 X 10 inch root mat in just a couple months.

I am really eager to get some more of it this spring and try growing it submersed. I would be able to dig huge tubers (for a aquarium plant) out of the bottom and just plant those so that any new growth would be submersed growth. As an emergent plant it has really tough stems and leaves.

I know of a ton of great places to get native plants so I am wondering if there would be a market for them on here come next summer. I could even sell them to LFSs.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Any updates RESET, or any luck finding enough materials to work with on scaping?


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