# Substrate Experiment - Commercial



## FarCanal

I've been running this substrate experiment for a few months and posting the results on an Australian site. I thought this maybe of interest to some crypt junkies. Not all these products will be avaliable outside of Australia. I'll copy the pictures and text from the original forum with dates in bold.

*26th July 2010*

Seeing as I have some tank space I thought I would give a substrate trial a go. I numbered 16 different pots in which I have planted some Crypt Wendtii "Tropica" for growth in emersed conditions. I've tried to recreate how these substrates would be used in an aquarium (for example pot 5 only has a pinch of each of the powders). I will be trying these substrates;
1. ADA Amazonia

2. ADA Malaya

3. ADA Africa

4. ADA Amazonia + Powersand Special S

5. ADA Amazonia + Powersand Special S + Multibottom + Ironbottom + Bactar ball + Penac P + Tourmaline

6. Eco-complete Live - Black

7. Eco-complete Live - Red

8. Flourite

9. Flourite Red

10. Onyx Sand

11. Dupla Ground + Root G & K + Dupla Plant

12. Richgro Aquatic plant mix

13. JBL Florabasis + Florapol + "7+13 Ball" + 4cm sand layer

14. Terralit + 4cm sand layer

15. First Layer Laterite + 6cm sand layer

16. 2 Dino dung pellets + Sand


The plants all came from one tank, they vary in size a bit unforetunetly, after potting up they looked like this;
               

They are all in a 3' tank with a 21W T5HE bulb over them. I will add a thin layer of sand over pots that don't have a sand cap and then add some moss to all the pots. The pot map is like this;
01-02-03-04-05-06-07-08 - Back row
16-15-14-13-12-11-10-09 - Front Row
A photo from above showing;
01-02-03-04
16-15-14-13

A photo from above showing;
03-04-05-06
14-13-12-11

A photo from above showing;
05-06-07-08
12-11-10-09


I'll try and update this at fairly regular intervals, I imagine I'll let it run for 12 months. I've only had this Wendtii variety flower outdoors so far, keen to get a better example. Maybe try a DIY substrate version next.


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## FarCanal

*25th Sept 2010*

2 months after planting, everything is growing and adapted to emersed culture. Original photo on the left for a comparison against today's shot on the right.


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## FarCanal

*18th Oct 2010*

The first one to flower, opened today.


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## FarCanal

*27th Nov 2010*
4 months in
               

Pot 11 had a spathe within a few days of opening


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## FarCanal

*26th Jan 2011*

Update time.
               

Flowering to date;
Pot 01 - 0
Pot 02 - 2 - (28/12/10, 16/1/11)
Pot 03 - 0
Pot 04 - 0
Pot 05 - 3 - (27/12/10, 10/1/11, 22/1/11)
Pot 06 - 4 - (15/12/10, 26/12/10, 11/1/11, 23/1/11)
Pot 07 - 1 - (25/1/11)
Pot 08 - 0
Pot 09 - 0
Pot 10 - 0
Pot 11 - 5 - (2/12/10, 15/12/10, 23/12/10, 8/1/11, 22/1/11)
Pot 12 - 0
Pot 13 - 4 - (12/12/10, 29/12/10, 11/1/11, 25/1/11)
Pot 14 - 0
Pot 15 - 0
Pot 16 - 1 - (18/10/2010)


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## ddavila06

amazing!


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## Crypto Russia

Please advise what water do you use (pH, KH)?


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## rjfurbank

Very cool experiments! Please keep updating -- always good to see some real data. . .


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## red1157

THNK!!! very nice and informative experience


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## illustrator

To me the most informative is that it looks like the plants are growing well in all soiltypes. Sure, in some they grow faster than in others and in some they flower better, but it is really hard to say how much of this is due to the size variation at the start or just some random variation between plants. I really like this kind of experiments. It would be wonderfull if a student will pick this up and make a thesis out of it with more species and an analysis what really makes the difference between the soiltypes (in pH and other parameters). I guess that at some nurseries they already did things like this, but i doupt if those data are public ...

Also excellent how you have photographed the plants in a standard way!


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## EDGE

Very detail experiment. From looking at the photos, they all seem to be growing at similar results. Doesn't look like any particular substrate is out performing another. 

Are you adding nutrients to the water or is this pure substrate testing? What are the control variables? Kind of hard to tell exactly what the substrate is doing when different enhancer/fertilizer are added to some and not to others (i.e laterite, power sand, multibottom, etc)

A cool experiment to try is use either blackwater crypt or limestone crypt to see the difference in growth in different pH like illustrator mentioned.


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## FarCanal

Crypto Russia said:


> Please advise what water do you use (pH, KH)?


The PH should be around 6.8, I use the same on all my tanks which is currently 9, 5 are emersed. Some of my other tanks are shown in this thread; http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/cryptocorynes/53083-new-crypts-already-addicted.html. The KH would change a bit through the year as the dam levels change here, been years since I did a water test.



EDGE said:


> Very detail experiment. From looking at the photos, they all seem to be growing at similar results. Doesn't look like any particular substrate is out performing another.
> 
> Are you adding nutrients to the water or is this pure substrate testing? What are the control variables? Kind of hard to tell exactly what the substrate is doing when different enhancer/fertilizer are added to some and not to others (i.e laterite, power sand, multibottom, etc)
> 
> A cool experiment to try is use either blackwater crypt or limestone crypt to see the difference in growth in different pH like illustrator mentioned.


I treat this tank like all my other emersed tanks, to the water I add a single drop of water column ferts daily. I use an Australian product called dino pee which is similar to seachem flourish I think. I also spray the plants daily, the spray has 1ml of MiracleGro Seafeed 3 in 1 mixed into 500ml of water. The spray is a very dilute fert and I give the spray bottle 3 pulls of the trigger for a 3' tank (left, middle, right) just for the foliage. Next time I do an experiment like this I will have a control pot with just fine gravel to see how much affect the fert regime has.

The substrate has nothing added to it after the test has started. I wanted to see the difference different additives make over just a standard substrate ... you know, to see if it makes a big difference or not.

The plants are moved around at each photo interval so no plant stays on the end of the light. Not sure if I put the lighting details in but I'm just using a 3' T5HE 6500k bulb, I think it is a 21W. The light is on for 12 hours a day with no direct sunlight.

I was hoping to see if you get what you pay for, are the more expensive substrates better. I expected all the "Commercially Available" substrates to work but for the more expensive substrate to out perform the cheaper ones. Onyx sand has been a bit of a dissapointment, it was expensive for me to buy here in Australia, more expensive than eco-complete which I think is performing better. I also expect to see a diffference over time, some may have a growth spurt early but not perform over the long term. I plan to do a few experiments like this, 16 DIY substrates would probably be next when this is finished.


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## soppshen

It's really, really an amazing experiment, i have to say. Appreciate you contribution!

Form the reasult, almost all of the "Commercially Available" substrates can support Crypt growing, but to flower, still need additional fert. 
Can I conclude it like that?
(Sorry for my poor English)

And furthermore, i cann't find any water circle or filter in you tank. So how often do you do water change?


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## ferchu22

Nice work!! Thanks for share it with us.
Regards,


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## FarCanal

soppshen said:


> It's really, really an amazing experiment, i have to say. Appreciate you contribution!
> 
> Form the reasult, almost all of the "Commercially Available" substrates can support Crypt growing, but to flower, still need additional fert.
> Can I conclude it like that?
> (Sorry for my poor English)
> 
> And furthermore, i cann't find any water circle or filter in you tank. So how often do you do water change?


More of the pots have flowered, the total at the moment is 30, some still haven't flowered. I don't think I'll draw any conclusions until at least a year is up. There could be some late bloomers.

All my emersed tanks have submersed pumps to circulate the water, I set them all up to create some turbulance at the water surface to aid humidity. No filtration or water changes, all my emersed tanks just get topped up.


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## rs79

Interesting. Two points though: first, unless you keep all the plants and substrates isolated then chemicals are going to leak from one to the other; you're not testing just those substrates you're testing them all at once. That is if one has a deficiency that causes poor growth, this will be masked by them getting that nutrient from the other substrates. Second, the growth in plants is subjective. What is usually done is to dry the plants and weigh them, this is a more accurate metric of biomass. See "Lighting for plant growth" (Kent State Press) for a similar experiment but with more rigorous methods. Of course they got a PhD for that (and invented the Gro Lux fluorescent tube)


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## HeyPK

I was thinking that some kind of inert aquarium gravel might be a useful control substrate.


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## FarCanal

Pictures from today added to the progress shots.
















































































































































I stopped counting the flowers after 52, for those interested this is the flower count per pot.
P-01	2
P-02	4
P-03	0
P-04	1
P-05	4
P-06	6
P-07	6
P-08	3
P-09	2
P-10	0
P-11	8
P-12	0
P-13	5
P-14	2
P-15	2
P-16	7

This will be the last update for this experiment, I want the tank space to spread out my non-flowered crypts.


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## illustrator

Now I am very curious what is your conclusion: which substrates do you think are better and why? like, is there a difference between peat-based and clay-based ones or is a mixture of the two better? And what about leaf-litter substrates in comparison with the commecreal ones?


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## countcoco

This is an excellent experiment. Thanks for sharing your results with us!!

IMO, it looks like numbers 5 and 11 are the winners.


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## liquidsmoke

FarCanal said:


> The PH should be around 6.8, I use the same on all my tanks which is currently 9, 5 are emersed. Some of my other tanks are shown in this thread; http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/cryptocorynes/53083-new-crypts-already-addicted.html. The KH would change a bit through the year as the dam levels change here, been years since I did a water test.
> 
> I treat this tank like all my other emersed tanks, to the water I add a single drop of water column ferts daily. I use an Australian product called dino pee which is similar to seachem flourish I think. I also spray the plants daily, the spray has 1ml of MiracleGro Seafeed 3 in 1 mixed into 500ml of water. The spray is a very dilute fert and I give the spray bottle 3 pulls of the trigger for a 3' tank (left, middle, right) just for the foliage. Next time I do an experiment like this I will have a control pot with just fine gravel to see how much affect the fert regime has.
> 
> The substrate has nothing added to it after the test has started. I wanted to see the difference different additives make over just a standard substrate ... you know, to see if it makes a big difference or not.
> 
> The plants are moved around at each photo interval so no plant stays on the end of the light. Not sure if I put the lighting details in but I'm just using a 3' T5HE 6500k bulb, I think it is a 21W. The light is on for 12 hours a day with no direct sunlight.
> 
> I was hoping to see if you get what you pay for, are the more expensive substrates better. I expected all the "Commercially Available" substrates to work but for the more expensive substrate to out perform the cheaper ones. Onyx sand has been a bit of a dissapointment, it was expensive for me to buy here in Australia, more expensive than eco-complete which I think is performing better. I also expect to see a diffference over time, some may have a growth spurt early but not perform over the long term. I plan to do a few experiments like this, 16 DIY substrates would probably be next when this is finished.


All of the images are not working for some reason. Would really love to see these results of all your hard work!


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## terryna

great experiment


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## Kai Witte

liquidsmoke said:


> All of the images are not working for some reason.


Images are up. Can you see them now? (Logged in?)


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