# Hardscape critique?



## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

so I've gotten most of my driftwood to sink. 
I played around with it a bit today since i have the day off.
And this is what I've come up with. 
I tried putting everything in the middle and branching outwards, tried the two sided deal, but I really like this setup ..I think. lol

Any suggestions on this? I do have a piece or two more that I'll be adding to the bottom of the tank, and thick piece that will curl upwards just to the left of that big dark burl I have.

Please post anything, I don't mind criticism at all.










thanks!


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## Craig Tarvin (Jul 26, 2005)

I think that there's too much wood. I would get rid of the burl and the small diameter pieces and then reevaluate, just my 2 cents.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

I like the branches too, but you might find the tank to be too crowded when you start to plant. 

Maybe if you thin out the branches a bit it would be better for the look and for the plants.


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## youjin (Apr 1, 2006)

probably remove those thin branches and keep those thicker branches so that it won't look too crowded. Probably don't need that piece on the left (rock or wood ?) as it look too different from the others.

Nice start !......can't wait to see it planted.


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## Satirica (Feb 13, 2005)

My suggestion is that you level the substrate in the front and slope it to the back corner. I think that you will find the high level of substrate on the left distracting and unattractive after a while.

Unlike everyone else, I like the small diameter pieces and would lose the burl and the large diameter pieces. The reason I suggest that is that if you have moss growing on the branches then the visual diameter will be significantly larger with the moss than with just the wood. I would add a one or two smaller diameter pieces.


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

you mean the large burl on the bottom left?

I really have it there to hide where the branches go into the substrate.
I was planning on keeping moss and java fern on this.....
would burying in deeper help mabey?

This tank isn't going to be heavily planted, actaully on the lighter side.
I'll use some moss, java fern, and anubias.

But I'll try it and take some pics.

for those that said to remove wood any advice on what branches to remove?

I agree it does look a bit crowded. I dunno, i asked for opinions b/c I'm having a hard time with this.

Pics will come after dinner.
thanks, keep em coming guys!

also Satirica, I agree. Already the gravel height is distracting.


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## |squee| (Feb 3, 2005)

I agree with less wood. Try taking out the ones that jut towards the front of the tank. I've tried a few with that kind of arrangement and it's always like a knife pointing at my eyes. 

It'll be easier for you to clean the front glass too.


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## Troy McClure (Aug 3, 2005)

This arrangement would be awesome if you were doing a blackwater biotope, but I don't think that's what you're after. It will be way too crowded and way too busy once you start planting. I will reiterate what others have said - take out the thin twig pieces, slope the substrate from front to back instead of right to left, and get rid of the front piece. The front piece -could- stay if you ran it more perpendicular to the glass.

Drop me a PM Matt...You live quite a bit past Matt's house, but maybe I can drop by on Wednesday to lend an extra pair of hands and eyes.


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

here are updated pics.
I took advice on removing the smaller pieces, though I did add a piece of it in the back and a more average sized one towards the left. I could part with the one in the back. But I dunno yet.

I took pics from three differen angles I just figured this might help with noticing where pieces are at in the tank. I noticed that in the original pics it looks like there are piece coming the the front glass, while pointing in that direction they were actually about 4 inches from it. lol stupid shadows.

But here we go.




























I plan on putting some sort of medium sized anubias in the corner where that large burl was, I'll let it grow over the different pieces of wood. And I don't plan on putting to many plants in there that will grow to the top of the tank.
low tech plants are key. lol

Keep postin those critiques/comments/ideas!!!
thanks!!!


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

I think you guys are gonna say to rotate the pieces that look like they are knifing you in the eye away from the glass?


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

I thought the previous layout was better save the crowded feel. i had this problem too with my previous layout and i had only 4 pieces in there!

I think you are wise to keep some small and thick pieces in there to create depth and detail.

Play with the sizes. one big, one medium and one or two small ones
The big one can be a combination of two or three pieces.

Big one [preferbly the thicker diameter one] placed off center left position pointing to front top right corner.
Medium [the skinnier branchy one] one on the right but placed off center back pointing back topright corner.
Small ones can be placed at base of the two bigger pieces to bridge. The small pieces can point to the bottom front corners.

I sometime saw bits off a big piece of wood to fit the layout. 
But think hard before you do!!!


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## DWIZUM (Jun 8, 2006)

I liked the first attempt better, but agree with some of the comments above on it. The images you just posted look too much like you just dropped a handful of sticks in - at least the bunch near the front that are laying down on the substrate look like that to me at least.

I think you've got some interesting pieces with lots of potential though!


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## DWIZUM (Jun 8, 2006)

Here's what I'm talking about:










Compare that to the first image you posted. But get rid of the burl too. The only part I don't like in this version is that one sorta thick straight branch near the left side, the one that's leaning towards the right. It looks out of place to me, probably because it's too straight or something. I'd loose that piece in favor of a smaller shorter, curvier piece - put it in the same general spot, but angle it towards the left back.


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## fredyk (Jun 21, 2004)

I really like the first image. I picture it with spiral val growing madly all over the place, but that's just my vision.
What else do I like about it? I have a picture of me standing in front of a pile of driftwood, and it's all piled up from a Spring flood on the Potomac. 
Picasa Web Albums - Mark - potomac
That's what nature does to driftwood..
Mark


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

wow, the first layout is winning over huh?
wierd. Honestly all I did for the second one was rotate the one piece in back so I didn't look so straight, took out the twigs, and burl. 
Then added the long thick branches in the gravel.
I planned for this one to put several anubias where the chunky burl was. and some java and lace fern along the top ridge of the "dam"

I thought the "dam" look would be pretty popular.
Would it look better if I buried them more? The look like a "pile of sticks" because they are above the substrate too much???

If i don't cover where the pieces are coming out of the substrate with wood won't that look more unnatural. Honestly, I probably won't have it planted heavy enough to cover much of anything.


I really want the most natural look possible so I try a few different tweaks and take pics of each today.

Also thanks for that pic fredyk. Thats the look I'm really trying to go for. I'll try burying them more....


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

wow the first one is winning out, huh?
odd. lol

Honestly all I did for the second one was rotate a few pieces and then add the "dam" effect infront. I think the reason it looks piled is because I just didn't do a very good job with arranging them. Mabey if they laid down more it would look better.

thanks for the pic fredyk, That what I'm really trying to create. I feel a bit short.
And standoyo, I've cut alot of pieces in here. So I know what you mean. lol but they've worked out for size so far.

I'll play for awhile and post pics soon.

thanks, keep em coming!


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## fredyk (Jun 21, 2004)

wow. that's the first complimentary comment on my driftwood picture : ))
and I like the burl in the 1st picture. kind of anchors it all


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

I've combined a few thing from just about everyone.
I moved the one dwizum said and rotated it a bit to make it look curvy-er.
I also tried to fix the "dam" by burying the pieces more. I think it could be tweaked a little, but by far better than the second attempt.

Also on the far left there was some negative space and I think I cleaned that up .
And this time I actually used the pieces in a way to make them look "LONGER"
I brought pieces more horizontally.

tell me what you think.


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

are you serious? Why wouldn't people like that? It's natural!
It's the way nature made it and it's an awesome picture of how thing Really pile up.
Only difference is underwater things tend to get buried after time, you have to create that current effect, which is where i failed before.


I like the burl too, but honestly these pictures aren't really doing a whole lot of justice to things, the water is still cloudy for some reason could be because I keep stirring junk up..i dunno.
The burl while a very cool and unique piece didn't really fit. It really attracted too much attention.

keep those comments coming!!!!


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

oops, and a top view.


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

I like your latest effort best, it gives more of a sense of depth. The partially buried pieces are much better than the dam look as that was a bit overwhelming. It seems like a lot of wood, but once you have your plants in there I think it will be all right.


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

yeah, i may remove a few pieces.

Any more comments????


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## |squee| (Feb 3, 2005)

I agree you still need to remove some peices, it looks messy there 

I don't know about the one with the thinnest branches though, looks out of place, but then it seems to fit somehow. 

How/what are you planning to plant?


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

plants
Anubias, java moss/ferns, crytps. dwarf sag.
Things like that. Easy growers.


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

I think I've got a few ideas on how to thin things out a bit. This could be big. lol


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

okay, so I think I'm getting warmer.
To be honest I had no idea how over crowded the branches made things. I knew I wasn't going to plant heavily and thought that I had to make up for it with wood.

So last night I went and bought an anubias and a shotty looking java lace fern.
I just needed an idea on what exactly I was going to do with plants, and wow.
You guys were soooo right. The wood made it nearly impossibly to even get into the tank with the plants, much less anchor them in any way.

So I just stepped back and looked.

This first picture is just the addition of plants, I hadn't moved any wood yet.









I decided that a piece that had been mentioned a few times as being almost "to straight" compared to the others could just be taken out entirely, I then moved the piece that has java fern tied to it more to the left and forwards about half an inch. Then slid the piece to the left of that and to the right of the one I just took out as far as I could to the left to kinda even the gap. Then Repositioned the smaller corner "filler" twig and the "wood dam" in front.
I removed the two front pieces that were too straight and added a piece with a good curve. this opened space between the top dam piece and the lower. Allowing for plants on top of both pieces and then in the middle.










And I did this pic with my WHITE background. Yeah, I know it looks orange/brown. The water is cloudy b/c I get sticking my hand in the fish bowl, and because the wood is still leaching a bit.










So tell me what you think!
be harsh! I wanna know! lol

I'll also note there's 1 more piece that I plan to add further down and to the right of the new bottom "dam" piece. It has a pretty serious curve too.

Comments?

thanks!!!!


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## riverspryte (Sep 16, 2006)

For my 2 cents, I liked the original (although, I agree that the knobbly burl piece was too different and it was a little crowded). In the original the pieces looked like they were sticking up more, and in the second arrangement, they seem to have fallen. I think that when the pieces are clumped on the bottom of the tank, it puts too much visual weight on the substrate. The visual weight should move your eye towards the center/midline of the tank, but it might look different with plants. What kind of fish are you planning to put into the tank??
The first set up seems like it would suit discus really well.


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

rasboras.


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

This is better, but almost all the ends of the upright pieces are ending at the same level. Maybe try shifting a couple so they don't stop right under the water surface.


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

I see your point(s) haha.
get it? The points on the wood? hahah...oh man.
uh yeah. 
Good Idea!


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

I like the pictures on this page the best. How well this all ends up looking will really depend on what plants you put in there around the wood. In my opinion the visual affect of this wood will look the best if you have absolutely no plants behind the wood at all, and have only low carpeting plants in front of the wood and plants no bigger than Anubias. Otherwise I think it will just end up looking too crowded.


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

wow, you have got to be a mind reader?
lol
That's pretty much what I've had in mind.
Like I said originally this is meant to be a "biotope" type tank.
It's not exact. But I planned on keeping mainly anubias, java fern/moss, crytps, dwarf sag. That was really about it. I'm going to let moss and ferns cover some of the lower pieces and mabey moss sparingly on upper portions.
I still will probably point a piece or two out of the water.
:: shrugs :: who knows I'll probably end up changing it more before all is said an done. lol.


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## |squee| (Feb 3, 2005)

The last picture you posted is nice! I mean this one. I think you're getting warmer too


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

Yeah, I really need this one last piece to sink. I think it will really even out the "dam"
And point a branch or two out of the water.


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## DWIZUM (Jun 8, 2006)

I like the most recent photos too, except for one thing. The fact that all the wood in the front is laying down in the dirt and all the wood in the back is sticking up in the water looks odd to me. I know it fits the convention of "short in front and tall in back" but it looks contrived or something. Almost like it's a little too orderly. Back in school I had an art teacher that referred to this as the "stoic plopper" look.  If things are too orderly, our brains get bored and start looking for imperfections. IMHO that's the big downfall to a conventional "short in front, tall in back" approach. If you break it up a bit, it will hold more interest.

If I were you, I'd keep it like that, but add one or two very small pieces near the front that are sticking up, mimicking the pieces in the back.



> In my opinion the visual affect of this wood will look the best if you have absolutely no plants behind the wood at all, and have only low carpeting plants in front of the wood and plants no bigger than Anubias.


I agree with this too, but IMHO it would be awesome to have a few big, flowing plants mixed in near the back - very lightly planted, but a few long leaves waving among all that wood will add interest, IMHO. I'm new to planted tanks so I don't know what species to suggest, but IMHO if you use ALL small plants like anubias then you'll have no movement - and large scale movement will add a hint of mystery, since sections of the background will be hidden and then revealed as the leaves move in the current.

Also, any reason for all the open space on the right side?

I hope my comments make sense. Like I said, I'm pretty new to planted tanks. . .


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

I completely understand what you mean. lol don't worry i do the same thing too sometimes.
And i agree with the sparingly placed taller stringy type plants, and mabey even the smaller pieces of wood up front.
I prolly won't get to try any of this out till after x-mas now though.
in the next three days before the 25th i work 45 hours...
wow, I hate retail.
But I'll def post pics.


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