# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Nutrafin CO2 Natural Plant System Questions



## knighthunter (Nov 16, 2004)

If you have one of these (Hagen/Nutrafin CO2 Natural Plant System) I would like to compair them.....

Mine seems to be doind about 1 bubble ever minute...not sure if this is normal as the manual/packaging doesnt say...

Also, this is good but annoying....my bubbles seem to get stuck on like the 4/5th leg of the ladder. They stay there until it builds up so much that it pushes on....and continues up the ladder


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## knighthunter (Nov 16, 2004)

If you have one of these (Hagen/Nutrafin CO2 Natural Plant System) I would like to compair them.....

Mine seems to be doind about 1 bubble ever minute...not sure if this is normal as the manual/packaging doesnt say...

Also, this is good but annoying....my bubbles seem to get stuck on like the 4/5th leg of the ladder. They stay there until it builds up so much that it pushes on....and continues up the ladder


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## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

Cruds and what not get built up and stuck in the ladder. Sometimes snails may also take a glide there. So it is imperative you take it out and clean the whole structure. I would also stop using the replacement package since the money you spend on that can very well be spent on buying all the ingredients found in those packages which cost around $3-6. All you really need are sugar, yeast(the so called activator), baking soda(the so called stabilizer). I can speak on behalf of this and by no means am defaming this product because I also own one of these systems. It is a great little gadget if you don't mind spending that much on the replacements, much as one would on the carbo cartridge replacement....that's like a more expensive version of the same thing. To make your mix last longer, I would suggest you try the Nyberg Method, which is in my opinion the best DIY recipe. Simply add some amount of molasses, protein powder OR soy powder, in addition to those already mentioned. I also found out instead of using sugar, you can try honey.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

My experience with the ladder is when newly set up or cleaned the bubbles will build up intil a coating is formed and then the bubbles will slide right along.


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## knighthunter (Nov 16, 2004)

SurWrathful:

I didnt plan to buy their packets..I agree they are too expensive for just some yeast and baking soda.....

I do like some of your idea though.....Ill have to try some.

trenac:
Thanks for the info....I actually took it out and rinsed it off, as SurWrathful suggested...waitting for the pressure to build back up to see what happens.


TO ALL:
Still dont know what a good bubble count is...like I said, mine is doing about 1 bubble a minute...is this good or bad or average.


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## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

A minute seemed too long an interval~ Did you use room temperature water that has been dechlorinated? Chlorine kills yeast. Always use filtered water, or you can use tank water. Also, the Nyberg Method works really well in terms of bubbling consistency. You really ought to give it a try. I get bubbles with that method at 1 every second. Good luck! If it doesn't seem to be working at first then just keep on trying. Don't give up


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## knighthunter (Nov 16, 2004)

The bubbles seem to have increased a bit...im getting one every 5 to 10 seconds.....

I am lost on the "Nyberg Method", I have no clue what your talkin about so I will look it up on the web.


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## knighthunter (Nov 16, 2004)

Actually before you reply I found what you where talkin about.....thanks

For anyone that doesnt have it, here it is...its a PowerPoint File so make sure you have PowerPoint but this is a GREAT READ!!!

Tarah Nyberg's Yeast CO2 powerpoint presentation from AGA2k3


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## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

knighthunter, I can see somebody has done his homework







Very good! Also, the method was featured in recent issues of TAG....maybe the last one or one before. Look forward to seeing your tank!


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by SurWrathful:
> Did you use room temperature water that has been dechlorinated? Chlorine kills yeast.


That's interesting, because I have always used straight tap water and have great C02 output. So the yeast must still be alive in order for this to happen. Is this statement correct?...The little bit of chlorine in tap water probably gets neutralized when it kills off a small amount of yeast and the yeast that is left is free to do it's job.


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## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

You have to find out what your local city water facility is adding to the water supply. Different cities have different set of standards. The same can be said about pH and GH. Some cities have it soft while others like my hometown, Houston, has it hard. You can literally observe calcium-related residue/deposits on the shower head and faucets. I know in Sweden(thanks to my gf), specifically Stockholm, their water supply is readily drinkable and she need not dechlorinate it whenever she does water changes. Perhaps you are one of the luck ones here in the States who lives in a city that has good clean water with little chemicals added


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## knighthunter (Nov 16, 2004)

Not trying to say you have no clue what your talkin about but I just re-read the manual for the unit....it specifily says to NOT use tank water....not sure about tap water verse distiled water....

I do agree with you that removing the crap the city puts in will help alot.

Even the PowerPoint file says to use Tank water..I have many things to play with now HA HA HA.

BTW, after 2 days I am now getting about a bubble ever 2 to 3 seconds...and they are moving up the ladder nicely.

Thanks for all the help guys


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## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

The reasoning that deals with using tank water is similar in having the water treated for chlorine. As long as you can provide dechlorinated water, it matters not what source. Also for your information, I too have a Nutrafin system







So don't worry; I do know what I am talking about. It all comes down to personal pref and experience through experiments. I am glad I got the DIY part of the scaping covered; it took me forever to get a hang of the proper amount of each ingredient....now I need to know how to scape for real...


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## IZM (May 24, 2003)

I have 4 of these units on various little tanks and I use chlorinated tap water with no problems. The bubble count is going to vary drastically from day to day with the DIY method. It usually starts out slow and once all of the yeast start producing peaks and then begins to drop back down as all of the sugar is used up. 

You can play with the amount of yeast you put in the mix to increase the bubble count. More yeast= more bubbles and the need to change the mix faster. Less yeast = less bubbles and the mix lasts longer.


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## knighthunter (Nov 16, 2004)

I ran a DIY CO2 Gen for about a month....I had issues with it because sometimes it would last 7 to 10 day and other weeks it would only last about 3 to 5 days.....very unstable.

Honestly, I think it was a mix between my setup and playing around with different mixtures....

At least with this system its very controlled enviroment for the yeast and now with the PowerPoint thing I can hopefully make the mixture more stable itself.

SurWrathful, I wasnt trying to critize you...I have seen a few places say dont use Tank Water but never could figure out why. After looking over Tarah Nyberg's PP I still dont understand why many say dont...which accourding to her it makes more sence to use it.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Thanks, Paul... I will have to see if I can find out what the water company is adding.


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## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

Honestly, I wasn't offended in the slightest sense







Like I said, it all comes down to personal pref and experience. Plus, each tank from each person is like a totally different universe. Things can and will vary greatly from one person to another. Personally I have never done a test on the degree of chlorine that would cause yeast to die off so I can not say just at exactly what amount will that happen. Having said that, however, I do not advocate to use tap water readily unless one is certain at the chemicals which are being added to one's local water supply. I always treat the water before I add them to my tanks. Maybe in IZM's case, it does work with presence of chlorine. Maybe it is only present in very minute amount so as to render the yeast unharmed; I do not know. It would be very interesting to hear what IZM has to say about his local water supply. I am rather curious to know the amount of Cl present in his local water supply, actually, having read what he said about the plants/fish are not harmed. Just how much; maybe IZM can share with us.


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## IZM (May 24, 2003)

I will look to see what my water report says. There is enough in the tap water to detect it's odor but exactly how much that amounts to will need to be researched...I'm kinda curious myself now...


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## IZM (May 24, 2003)

My water report says the chlorine level is 3.7 to 4.0ppm. Is that alot???


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## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

I think there is a thread in APC that soley discusses the water supply in your city. I'm gonna go check it out. Thanks for the report


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