# Normani Lampeyes Dieing



## zer0zax (Mar 25, 2007)

I recently bought 10 lampeyes, after 3 days one of them died. I removed the dead body within 1 hour of it's death. After 6 days of purchase, I noticed another lampeye with the same symptoms, and I thought about it hard, then I decided to cull it before it died. Today is day 7, and I am about to perform a 20% waterchange, and then I will put another filter in my ugly tank with a lot of activated charcoal. I do a head count at least twice a day, and I look at every single fish for any abnormalities.

The first lampeye that died had a small noticeable red area internally behind a pectoral fin, small bulge, but the skin was not broken. I noticed this when I first put the fish in my aquarium, but only the red area was noticeable, no bulge. All of the other fish were fine. I don't know anything about fish diseases, I know what ich looks like, but I have never had to deal with it or any other fishy diseases before. I do have eagle vision though, and all of the other fish looked fine at this point. The good thing about Lampeyes is that they are somewhat clear, easy to see insides and outsides.

The second lampeye (that I culled before it died) showed no symptoms the day before, not even the red area. The next day it had the same red area internally as the first fish that died, as well as the same bulge! Crap. So I culled it in order to possibly save the rest of my lampeyes, even though it was still swimming and eating fine. Whatever this is, it works quick. Here is the pic again of the fish I culled, showing the bad side:









Red internal area outlined:









Top of the bulge outlined:









The good side:









Top view:









Bulge outlined:









Water temp: 78
Ammonia : .25ppm
NitrItes : 0ppm
NitrAtes : 5ppm
PH : 6.8

My aquarium has only been setup for 9 days, but both filters have been running with a light plant load for a couple weeks. My test strips are 2 months out of date, but the aquarium water tests better than my tapwater after dechlorinating it, testing both waters side by side. Sorry for the long post, but I haven't dealt with dieing fish before, and I want to provide as much info as possible. *ANY* insight/input will be much appreciated!!!!!!!!!!

The rest of the lampeyes look fine right now, nice coloration on the males (they display constantly), and all of the fish are active and eating very healthy. Whatever this problem is, it strikes very quick.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

this might sound gross, but if you can, perhaps dissect the fish and see what is wrong inside. I know it may not mean anything to you, but if you can describe what you are seeing, perhaps someone else might recognise it.


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## zer0zax (Mar 25, 2007)

That is a good idea, but I disposed the fish. I did a 30% water change yesterday, and I saw 3 baby shrimp in the tube that pumps water into the emersed box. I decided not to install another filter with activated charcoal, hopefully lampeyes aren't more sensitive than baby shrimp! 

Today I saw a few more baby shrimp hopping around the substrate, and all of my aquatic buggies are doing fine also, so I think it might be a disease or parasite that is only affecting the lampeyes. All of my shrimp are swimming out in the open and they seem happy, the 8 lampeyes I have left are colored up and look healthy also. Hopefully I don't lose any more of them!!! I will do another 20-30% water change in 2 days.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

baby shrimp!!!! SQUEEEEEEEEEEWE


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

I wonder if it is a parasite? Fish can carry them for a while and have no symptoms. I would try some parasite medication, like Jungle labs parasite clear. It won't harm the plants. Am I to understand that you didn't quarantine them?

Oh, read water change boosts the fishes' immune systems.


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## zer0zax (Mar 25, 2007)

No, I didn't quarantine them because they were the first fish put in my tank (besides an otto). I will quarantine any new additions from now on, though! I have read other horror stories and why it is a good idea to quarantine, so I will put a filter back on my 5gal and use that for a quarantine tank. If the rest of my lampeyes live, I will buy four more and quarantine them for two months. I hate using meds on my fish, but if another one drops I will buy some medication and learn my lesson the hard way! Unhealthy fish are not fun.


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

Jungle labs parasite clear is just a tab that fizzes in the water.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

We, Invertz Factory, import rare fish and I can tell you our experience.

Some exporters ship the fish in insane packaging. A plastic bag with 1/2 gallon (or less!) of water may contain 200 fish!

Some species are very hardy and take this overcrowding pretty well. Very few of them die. Some species take it very hard and most of them die.

But one thing that is actually worst is the Ammonia poisoning. It works on the fish many days after you have put them in your tanks. You will have a few of them die every day until all of them are gone. There are no symptoms. At times red spots like the one you describe develop under the skin. They maybe anywhere on the body. The spots look like a bacterial infection but strong, professional grade fish medicine doesn't always work. That's why all such problems are attributed to slow Ammonia poisoning that the fish got in their tissues during transportation.

How true is all that? I really don't know. But what I do know is that a respectable pet fish seller will quarantine the fish for at least 2 weeks before offering them for sale. Most LFS buy the fish from middle men that import them. The middle men should quarantine the fish for at least 2 weeks. But the LFS cannot know that. They should also quarantine the fish for 2 weeks anyway if they want to be fair to the customer.

So my guess is that you got Lampeyes where imported very recently and where never quarantined. That's the usual case unfortunatelly.

--Nikolay


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## zer0zax (Mar 25, 2007)

Thanks Niko, that makes a lot of sense. I didn't want to jump the gun and blame the importers/LFS off the bat because my aquarium is not fully stabilized yet, but my lampeyes are growing quickly in such a short time. I agree, I think these guys were imported very recently! I originally had a couple big ones and the rest were quite small, but now the sizes of the fish are averaging out. They grow quick! 

The remaining fish look fine for now, if they make it I will buy 4 more females and quarantine them for sure! I will also call in advance to try and time my future purchase, that way I can buy the fish before a new shipment is put in the LFS' aquariums.


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## zer0zax (Mar 25, 2007)

Today is day 15 and another one is dead!! The fish that died today was swimming near the surface and not eating with the others for a couple of days, so it was no big surprise, but it had no visible markings on it. The 3 fish that died so far were females, and now I only have 2 female and 5 males. This really really sucks! The crazy thing is that my males are all colored up, and my large female lays 3 eggs about every other day. The eggs take a couple of days to eye up, but they disappear after 4 days, probably getting eaten. At least none of the eggs get any fungus on them. Tomorrow I will make a floating net so I can put some moss in it and put any eggs I find in there as well. I still have hopes for the little buggers, if I have some left after a month or can successfully raise the fry, I will buy 4 more females and might be able to get 1 of them to live. :faint2:


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## Sherryazure (Jun 20, 2003)

Hello, been a member but never posted. I was searching for breeding thoughts on the Normani Lampeye (little grey fish with large blue eyes - Aplocheilichthys Normani?) and ran across this site and decided to respond since I've had a similar problem (as have others I've know).

Once in a while one or more of mine die after purchasing (and they are not cheap here in NYC if found at all) even though I take hours to slowly drip acclimate them in mature set up - I always take tons of water from store (tank) where I got them from. (I have a method that cycles in basically one day - use older filter floss with two filters one with older floss one new, some of water etc from mature tank, heavily planted and culture from established plants, wood so on, and bio bugs IF needed).

My ph is higher 7.8 - sometimes less depends on local water (fine for this fish if acclimated slow from softer store water - I take several days to transfer even from one of my tanks to another new set up) and water hard - hence the very slow transfer. That said occasionally when I get them in, one will be at top separate from school, then next day gone. I just don't have as you mention yourself, fish die off like this.

Below is a note on another forum that mentions shipping problems and die off as well with this fish. (as another poster mentioned).

I read on a board somewhere that this fish is tough but delicate (and mentioned if you've had them you will know what that means)... I get a pain in the gut every time one passes. And the staff where I get them here in NYC (when they have them) said the same when they've kept them at home - suddenly one will die after bringing them home! 
...........................................

Ammonia burns the delicate tissues of the fishes gills and downhill from there as basically they can't breathe. It can look just like that red spot at the gill area (internal bleeding and swelling of tissue as blood vessels burst). Maybe as well a spike in water chemistry something or another as fish were added to a relatively new tank, a time perhaps when you hadn't tested (then it lowered? just hunting here - it doesn't take much to do damage).

Note paragraph two - hence the thought of ammonia spikes during shipping (not to mention other suppressors) and damage continues even if in zero ammonia later.

<<part of article below - At a level of level of 1 ppm or 1 mg/l, fish are under stress, even if they don't appear in acute distress.

Levels even lower than that can be fatal if the fish are exposed continuously for several days. For that reason it is critical to continue daily testing and treatment until the ammonia drops to zero.

When ammonia is elevated for a long period, it is not unusual to lose fish even after the ammonia levels start to drop. >>

(in spite of my maturing tanks when ever I add fish all at once (rare but these ARE small) I still do very small partial water changes daily just in case there is a spike - too large a water change can cause problems as well, hence the daily very small - about ten percent or so - depends on stocking levels so on.

Also, a change in the bacterial composition of differing tanks (even one's own) can cause shock and fish die off. Hence the slow drip transfer with some of shops water then transfer dribble yours in. This helps a lot I've found. (not to mention ph differences).

But all said, it seems like gill damage due to poisoning and without a microscope and to dissect it is hard to identify if it were bacterial or parasite. Since I and others have problems which are similar I do think it is shippping/transfer stress and burns to gills due to bad shipping/water chemistry.

Also, with fish this small I would suggest not netting them mho - gills esp in fish this small collapse from weight of being in air and due further damage. (they are layers of delicate tissue and the smaller the fish the more harm when out of the water, even for a short period of time).

I have the staff at the store where I've found them (more expensive place) use a plastic tub (like soup container) and I do the same when transferring. Of if you do need to use a net, scoop the container under the net while they are still in the net but in the water and transfer them in that manner. They jump when scared....

Well nuf said and sorry if rambled on... I love this fish and really upsets me when they die for seemingly "no" reason... They are delicate just simply due to their small size but once acclimated and going seem to do rather well. Now if any one can help with breeding information, lol. Best Sherry

(first though, great link to article - scroll down a bit - on the various types of lampeyes)

http://www.aqualog.de/news/news_pdfen/news74e.pdf

.................................................................................

This poster mentions when he transfers this fish he has a die off rate within first several weeks.

http://www.petfrd.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-7290.html

lampeye
24-03-2006, 10:42 PM
Hm...the thread's only two years old...why not reply? 

The fish pictured on the previous page are Poropanchax normani, formerly Aplocheilichthys normani. .......

They do NOT like higher temps - I'm sure they'd tolerate them well, but they would also "burn out" quickly if kept constantly warm.

A caveat - they don't seem to ship well. Most of the ones I've seen in stores have been badly underweight, and In the three times I've had them, I lose a significant portion (roughly 15%!) in the first week or so. After that, however, they seem almost bulletproof.
..................................................

Water poisoning

Description:

Ammonia poisoning is one of the biggest killers of aquarium fish. It occurs most often when a tank is newly set up. However, it can also occur in an established tank when too many new fish have been added at one time, when the filter fails due to power or mechanical failure, or if bacterial colonies die off due to the use of medications or sudden change in water conditions.

Symptoms:

Fish gasp for breath at the water surface
Purple or red gills
Fish is lethargic

Loss of appetite 
Fish lays at the bottom of the tank
Red streaking on the fins or body

Ammonia poisoning can happen suddenly, or over a period of days. Initially the fish may be seen gasping at the surface for air. The gills will begin to turn red or lilac in color, and may appear to be bleeding.

The fish will being to lose its appetite and become increasingly lethargic. In some cases fish may be observed laying at the bottom of the tank with clamped fins.

As the damage from the ammonia poisoning continues, the tissues will be damaged as evidenced by red streaks or bloody patches that appear on the body and fins.

Internal damage is occurring to the brain, organs, and central nervous system. The fish begins to hemorrhage internally and externally, and eventually dies.

Treatment: 
Lower pH below 7.0

25 - 50% water change

Use chemical to neutralize ammonia

Discontinue or reduce feeding

If the ammonia level rises above 1 ppm as measured by a standard test kit, begin treatment immediately.

Lowering the pH of the water will provide immediate relief, as will a 50% water change (be sure to use water that is the same temperature as the aquarium). Several water changes within a short period of time may be required to drop the ammonia to below 1 ppm.

If the fish are in severe distress, the use of a chemical to neutralize the ammonia is recommended. Feedings should be restricted so that additional waste is reduced. In cases of very high ammonia levels, feedings should be discontinued for several days. No new fish should be added until the tank until the ammonia and nitrite levels have fallen to zero.

Because ammonia toxicity is linked to the pH, testing of both ammonia and pH levels are critical. Ammonia becomes increasingly toxic as the pH rises above 7.0. Because there are so many variables, there is no magic number to watch for. However, there are general guidelines to follow.

At a level of level of 1 ppm or 1 mg/l, fish are under stress, even if they don't appear in acute distress. Levels even lower than that can be fatal if the fish are exposed continuously for several days. For that reason it is critical to continue daily testing and treatment until the ammonia drops to zero. When ammonia is elevated for a long period, it is not unusual to lose fish even after the ammonia levels start to drop.

Nitrite Poisoning -

Nitrite is less toxic then ammonia, but still poses a significant health risk to the fish, and can be deadly in high doses or over long periods of time.

Nitrite enters the bloodstream of the fish and binds hemoglobin cells - the oxygen carrying vessels of the fish's body. In other words, high nitrite levels will suffocate the fish.

The cause for nitrite poisoning is the same as described with ammonia poisoning.

Symptoms -

Fish gasping for air at the water surface is generally a good sign of nitrite poisoning.

Treatment - 
15% water change daily until the tank is cycled.


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## zer0zax (Mar 25, 2007)

Thanks for sharing the info Sherryazure! 2 more of my lampeyes died yesterday, so I only have 5 now. These fish had no red areas, but they would hide a lot and wouldn't eat with the other fish, so I did have warning that they weren't going to make it. One of them looked like it was slowly starving, but the other looked like it was way to fat, and pale. The 5 that I have left now are very active and look healthy to me, chances are more will die, but I will be shocked if the remaining ones do because they are eating healthy, guess time will tell.

I have counted 6 new baby lampeyes today, so at least the eggs are hatching alright! My tank has a drip wall (paludarium) and a lot of flow/disturbance on the surface, so the eggs are well oxygenated. The average size of the fry are between 2 and 3 mm, pretty small but I have no idea how old they are. The adults feed right by them but don't take any interest in them, so if they make it to this size predation might not be much of an issue. I have seen at least a dozen eggs, and some disappear before they eye up, so somebody is probably eating my eggs! Haven't caught the culprit(s) yet though. I have only seen 1 fungussed egg so far, so the majority of the eggs seem to do fine, as long as they don't get eaten! I only have 2 females and 1 of them is to small to lay eggs, so the other 1 has been very busy! If the fry make it to adulthood and don't die off like canaries, then I will buy 5 more big female and hope that 2 will live long enough to spawn.

Here is a pic of a baby shrimp and lampeye egg on a frogbit:








The white part on the top of the egg is where 2 sticky strands connect it to the plant, kind of like a spider web. I think I used a flash for this pic, but the eggs normally are very clear until they eye up.

A pic of a fry:








Today I crushed up a shrimp pellet into powder, and most of the pieces were still to big! I spent a couple of minutes crushing the small pellet into fine fine powder, felt like I was breaking it down on an atomic level, and then the fry would finally eat some of it. Tomorrow I will add a big clump of java moss and attach it by the surface, that way I shouldn't have to worry about feeding the fry so much. All of the fry hang out at the very top of the tank, and the adults are more of mid water swimmers, although they do sleep close to the surface at night.


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## Sherryazure (Jun 20, 2003)

Please tell me how to raise them, lol (ie breed them). I swear it is the NYC water (really horrible in my area but I prefilter and age.) I will try to take a photo (horrible) and post it for your analysis of set up. (lots of java moss, at bottom and on wood). I am hoping they will just do it naturally when they mature a bit. Just got them and so far (knock on wood) only one passed (I had them in smaller quarantine tank and when I went to siphon water off for partial change they went basaltic jumping all over - lid was slightly on) I think along with them being new, recently transported and this action it was too much stress. I now lower lights even more.

I have started to feed them more frequently as well (instead of twice daily four times) due to their smaller size and faster metabolism. (very fine and not to much). We shall see.

Once they are a bit more settled down (they are now getting used to me err I mean the hand that brings food) I am going to put the branchy wood with moss on the bottom (now attached to sides of huge globe) as when I first put them in it, it was arranged so they would swim round and round clump of moss in middle - they looked like they were having a lot of fun. I also noticed with the moss on the bottom (supposed to be in lieu of a mop) they leave their preferred swimming area and go down into the moss to pick up any food. (I do more frequent partial water changes as I do not want a cory in their in case they DO breed)....

Did you do any of the water temp drops/changes or any thing special - or just left them alone? When I was young in Oregon with great water my fish bred all the time. My water is hard but they do ok with that.

In one of my old Dr. Innes books, yellow egg yolk can be used to feed fry. Highly nutritious and finely grained. 

Thanks for your posts and photos - I look forward to see how the eggs/fry do. Best Sherry


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## Sherryazure (Jun 20, 2003)

Is there a spell check on this???? forgive my spelling! lol... (and it IS late) (gadds) Best Sherry


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## Sherryazure (Jun 20, 2003)

One more.... did you see this paludarium? Amazing. (can you take photos of yours from a distance to see the whole?)






And another buy same designer.






I am in the process of doing two in addition to setting up a 75. I was going to put the lampeyes in the P. but will keep them in huge round globe as java moss will do better near window. My lighting sxcks as I am old school (from way back) and not sure about the newer lighting (even after reading much on it - t this t that???). Best Sherry


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## zer0zax (Mar 25, 2007)

I did already see those 2 paludariums that you linked, the first one is one of my all-time favorites! I didn't know that both of them were made by the same guy, though. In the paludarium with lampeyes, did you notice the moss drip wall that he has? That's what I have in my Ugly tank (only mine's really ugly). I don't know what single thing has contributed to my fish breeding, but I have a lot of water dripping down the back wall, so a lot of surface disturbance and oxygen are constantly getting mixed in. I haven't tried any tricks yet, the temperature is consistently between 76F and 78F. No idea if this is what the fish prefer, but I don't use a heater at all, the lights and glass tops keep the temp where it's at.

I think you will do just fine with moss. If you have a lot of it to play with, you might want to attach some to the back and sides. My fish seem to lay eggs all over, but the majority of eggs are attached to the stems of stem plants, stems of Bolbitis, and on the plastic mesh of my moss squares. Recently I put in a small clump of moss or algae from an emersed rock from my big tank, and in 3 days I had 18 eggs in it, so I would have to say they like that the best! The moss/algae looks like thin green strand algae, the shrimp and snails cleaned it the first day, but nobody is eating it. I really need to take pics! Later today I will put in some fine strand filter floss and find out if the fish prefer thread-like material, or if it has to be live plant material. As far as your water goes, it might help if you continue aging the water, but do smaller water changes. That way it won't shock the fish at all, maybe adding some surface floaters like frogbit to help shade the fish and take up excess nutrients, that way you won't have to change the water as often. 

Another fish died, he went the same way as the previous two did, and I think it is because of aggression! The minute one fish dies, the next one becomes a target! I didn't expect this from shoaling fish!!! I need to set up my big aquarium so I can put the eggs in there, that way the fish will be the same size and one fish won't become a target, kind of like an African cichlid aquarium. I have 2 males and 2 females left, so far the smaller male hasn't been picked on! The fish are constantly breeding and laying eggs now, so they hang out in pairs and ignore the other pair.

My fish haven't jumped at all! They go all over the tank, maybe part of it is that the water level is so low, and plenty of overhanging plants. Your mentioning of lowering the lights (dimming?) got me thinking! I have a lot of shadowy areas, but I have no background on my tank at all, so a lot of ambient light brightens up the whole tank. I need to tape up something on the back and sides, I think the lampeyes really would feel better. They like swimming in the open, but they always sleep under cover. Now that they are breeding so much, they are never in the open! I think it would be better if you used strong enough light so the plants grow healthy, just add some branches and top floaters to provide shade for the back and sides. A dark background might help your lampeyes feel safe, too!

Sorry for being so long winded, I need to get on here more often! I did read that when stressed, lampeye's eyes lose the blue reflection, but they also do this when they breed! Be on the look out for this, especially if the males hug the substrate and follow the female wherever she goes. That's what my fish do when they are about to breed. The male's eyes turn gray and he swims directly under the female, if she swims off, the male will try to anticipate her movements and swim to a possible breeding ground ahead of her. If you see this action at all, you are guaranteed to have eggs in your tank!


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## Sherryazure (Jun 20, 2003)

If you are long winded what does that make me!!!... for some reason I didn't get this update as I did the first email (yahoo lets all the crud go through but not my emails I want)... .... is there a way to do a direct contact. Sorry to hear another went onward... so far I don't think another is gone but hard to count and I am not looking that closely! 

Well its a huge globe (about 20 plus gallons half full) so no moss side and walls (but I attache driftwood with moss on it to the sides with suction cups). The moss is getting enough light and doing well but I still got a better bulb by default. I now like to hardscape with easy to remove items so it's easier to clean. (ie low light plants like Anubias on wood, moss on wood and just a layer of sand soil (eco soil) for bio bugs)... now with 75 I will use the old fashioned (Dr Innes of 30 - 50's) planting pots for some crypts I have. (still setting that up, the best layed out plans on paper always go so sloooooow in reality).

There is a huge layer of moss along the bottom and I created with the branches some swim through space and holes, caves so on - all with the moss and so they can swim endlessly (ie around and around or circle 8) if they choose to... Unlike what is said (only swim in upper layer), they go down into the moss to pick on any frozen (heated first of course) food that sinks down.



Well, the guy where I got them from had more in but different variety... that is the 2nd to last batch and he did exactly what you describe - one by one picked the more vulnerable off. He also said he noticed that as they matured they got aggressive - so much for the schooling killie! I think like all territorial fish that means more space then first thought for them... The palaudarium is 40 gallon I think... (I sure wish he and others would post their steps in construction - many do of course but you never know if it's a new and easier approach). I emailed him but no response... I guess he runs the tubes up through the back and just lets it drip?

The fish shop guy had bred his as well (or rather they just did their thing) and said let mine grow up and they should do so. We shall see. He gave the rest (a few) back to the stores main display tank (really nice high light with a jungle in it)... as he got tired of his dying off!

I got a brighter bulb (very expensive at the same above store but the only one near me at all - would have to go way down town to Chinatown otherwise) (online a few bucks there almost 20!) But it provides brighter light in the new type (for me) but it is in a regular ten gallon light hood. (you mention ugly tank well you haven't seen ugly til you see this light set up). 

I have a canister but it isn't qualified for such intensity. (it was one of the newer (to me) floursecent bulbs that go into a reg socket - ten watt - all they had. Nice quality and along with the sunlight reflection it is fine for just moss... branches give some shade.

Well eventually I would like to move them to a flat glassed tank as with round it is hard to see any breeding behavior. I am pretty sure my rainbows bred and then maybe ate the eggs... lots of said activity near branchy moss and later picking at the moss... but who knows. (the Dwarf Neon Rainbow or Melanotaenia Praecox) (I really like that fish)

A dark background does wonders for many fish (they feel more secure) The same rainbows in an even larger globe (acrylic found in closing plastics shop in chinatown) and the sunlight made it so that they rarely swam around. Now they are in with dark background and they are all over the place. The killer lampeye swims with them.

I use acrylic paint... I start with paynes grey (has a bit of deep blue so most won't notice it's not pure black) and for the 75 I graduated to a more pure deep cobalt blue towards the top... I am sure it will come off as black lol (but it does make a bit of difference). You can use any color and it is easy to scrape off if every need be (well with a razor)...I seal it a bit with clear.

I would like to send you a photo of my set up... how does one contact another via email I'd give mine but last time I did I ended up on a government web site for tuna in nets letter writing campaign (nothing safe on the net). So let me know when you can how to ok.... ( Ok signing off for now... Best and thanks Sherry

sorry if redundant kindof hard to read in such a small space here to edit...

I have a link to magazine with photos of many types of lampeyes... I will try to find it and post it... there are an amazing variety but most not found in stores.


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## Revernance (Aug 20, 2007)

Sorry for your loss.
I had had new fish mysteriously a while back. 

I've noticed that my lampeyes start breeding more when I do 50 percent water change weekly. They are in a community tank, so I think a lot of the eggs are consumed. I want to put them in a tank by themselves, but the only free tank I have is a 10 and a 5 gallon. They get really angry when they are put into tanks smaller than a 29 gallon. Anyone have a similiar issue?


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## Sherryazure (Jun 20, 2003)

Reverance, I will try the 50%, (but am wondering does that upset the cycle - I usually do twice weekly smaller changes)...I may have one more missing but school seems to have stabilized.

They are still young, but globe is full of moss so hopefully...(huge globe and later will transfer into even larger - can't quite calculate volume - but about 2 feet at widest point).

Meanwhile I have had to break all the other tanks down due to nasty parasite called Camallanus that apparently came in with snails on pond grown java moss! Nightmare, had to disinfect everything and one more month of treatment. 

I feel the lamp eye is not as peaceful as many think and become territorial as they mature - hence the larger the tank the better... 

I emailed some seller on aquabid for information on larger live bug cultures so I can feed my fish healthier foods - should help as well?

Do you mind my asking what your ph is, hardness (general is ok) and average temp? (can't hurt, lol)

Best Sherry


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## Revernance (Aug 20, 2007)

Sherryazure said:


> Reverance, I will try the 50%, (but am wondering does that upset the cycle - I usually do twice weekly smaller changes)...I may have one more missing but school seems to have stabilized.
> 
> They are still young, but globe is full of moss so hopefully...(huge globe and later will transfer into even larger - can't quite calculate volume - but about 2 feet at widest point).
> 
> ...


You shouldn't notice any drastic changes in the nitrogen cycle when you do large water changes. Most of the nitrifying bacteria are found on the substrate and plants. 
I rarely feed my fish live foods, as I don't have time for it. The lampeyes usually start laying eggs sometime after a water change. The eggs hatch maybe after 12-14 days. 
Lampeyes can be semi- aggressive. I have had them with threadfin rainbow fish and they do nip at the pink threadfin's tails. 
I don't measure my water paramter too much. I have medium hard water(los angeles city water!) and ph is usually around 7.0. Temperature is kept at a constant 76 degrees Fahrenheit.
One of the reasons why water changes induce breeding is probably because it mimics rain in the wild. Rain brings in fresh nutrients and food, so most fish usually take that and breed.


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## Sherryazure (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Normani Lampeyes doing just fine!*

Lol, after four decades of raising fish I don't much check water chemistry as well (can tell from smell of it "sweet" or not!).... I understand rain so on, but wondered if drop in temp but read hear I think it isn't supposed to be that big a drop.

Meanwhile all nine still doing very well... gues stabalized.

I have two babies! Not sure what! I had to take out adult rainbow (dwarf neon) from 20 gallon to treat for nasty Camallanus (lost 3 so far, females post treatment, as worm does much internal damage)... Yesterday I decided to do drastic water change to "empty" tank, some snails and since they are carries (probably parasite brought in on pond raised moss bought on ebay - oops).... was going to take care of them as well, although these are small flat whirly ones which I've had for years and kind of like.

Any way, after draining direct (usually do syphon and check bucket for anything live before I dump) and refilling direct from fauset and collecting moss from tub drain, rinsing in tap water and tossing into moss grow out container high up under light on bath room shelf..... I eventually notice what I think is some sort of wiggly worm... on closer inspection (needed a magnifying glass it was so small) I see it is a tiny fry! I rapidly think back and realize I must have killed off who knows how many then run to check the moss! Somehow it survived all of that! I scoop it back in small tub and let it go in 20 gallon. (not sure if Camallanus eggs/larvae in there????

So two survived and I know I collected moss from Lampeye globe (had tons so redid wood and created better landscape)... time will tell what they are.

Amazing anything survived. Best and thanks for responce.

Any one knows how long before sexual maturity..... no rush to answer. Best She


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## Sherryazure (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Normani Lampeyes - Breeding (finally)*

This is an update to the former thread.

Well it seems if one provides a "happy" home the fish will do what occurs naturally. I had placed the nine Lampeyes (stabilized at this number) into a 20 tall with tons of moss at the bottom and several branches with well grown out moss on them. Hardly noticed at first but two fry, and I see one egg, (one with fungus).

I was searching for thoughts re food and came across this site again hence the update. I added bio bug culture as within a day one can see microscopic creatures swimming/crawling around. I appreciate all information from previous posts and hopefully they will survive to adult hood. Thanks - Sherry


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## Sherryazure (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Normani Lampeyes Living and breeding like rabbits! lol*

This is an update in case any one in ciber space finds this forum -

My group (not sure which one) has been breeding and breeding to the point where I have placed the original parent group in a 75 gallon with others (the fry will most likely be eaten) as I have run out of space for baby fry.

What I've learned.

Breed them in a mature tank with microscopic organisms for them to eat.

I noticed fry were eaten asap by parents where eggs were too large for them to digest.

I eventually used a bare bottomed 20 gallon tall with tons of java moss - two filters, and would suction cup out the eggs with gigantic turkey baster (they would go into another mature tank).

The fry hatch at different rates (eggs laid continuously it appears). I now have the larger fry in their own 20 long, and new borns in a huge globe (very mature but balanced - I hadn't even noticed for weeks so they were surviving on organisms in the tank).

So, eventually, nature will take it's course it seems..... they less I messed with - the better. Best Sherry

(about 40 plus fry now - more then the original parent group)


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