# Film on water surface, and algae



## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

I need someone to put me on the right track here.

In my 10g el natural, which has 9 female bettas and random pond snails, there's this constant film on the surface of the water. Even with circulation it stays there, floating. I have to practically chop up the water to get rid of it. What is it and will it go away? The tank has been set up for about 2 months. It shimmers with a bluish green color when light shines on it, and when I mix up the water with my finger, it turns into little white specks that float around in the water. I'm worried about gas exchange with this stuff coating everything.

Also, I'm getting some green algae on some of my plants and tank walls. Any suggestions for clearing this up? An oto? What kind of snails are good for these tanks?

My water has 0 GH from the tap and has 0 GH in the tank too. Should I add some magnesium and traces to the tank to help out?


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## HoldingWine (Oct 7, 2007)

I had the same problem in my 55 gallon. I added 3 platies and it went away overnight. I've heard mollies and swordtails will work as well. I think it is just protein buildup from a lack of surface agitation but somebody else can probably chime in with a more scientific reason.


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## Beasts (Apr 14, 2006)

An old, old remedy but not an answer to what it is. I used to carefully lay a sheet of newspaper on the surface of the water and then lift it off. It would take that film with it when it was removed.
The source could be fumes from your meth lab.:heh: 
Beasts


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Beasts' advice is good. Newspaper or paper towels will get rid of it. Some fish eat it. In time it will go away. It is nothing to worry about.

But - if you really have zero GH you will be unable to grow plants. You need calcium, magnesium, and trace minerals. There are products that will supply those. Seachem's Equilibrium and Barr's GH Booster are two.

Good luck!

Bill


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

Well I was wondering about the GH because I thought that the soil would provide some of that, but it's undetectable in the water.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

The film you have in your tank could be a biofilm. I've read that sometimes people get biofilms in their el natural tanks. I believe they're harmless.


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

Good. Any thoughts on the algae?


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

You can add some otos to the tank but I do know that some people prefer to add some freshwater Nerite snails to their tanks when they have an algae problem. When the algae is gone, just make sure you add algae wafers since they don't eat plants.

The only thing about these snails(as well as other snails, for that matter) is that they need hard water and an alkaline pH in order to grow well and survive. With Nerites, the harder the water is, the better.


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

Hm, in that case I would have to start messing with my water chemistry. Pond snails are doing ok so far, but the bettas like to eat them.


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## [email protected] (Oct 15, 2007)

My snails love to hang upside down on the surface to get at the biofilm; I have also read about oto's that will float belly up to reach the film. The film increases in my tank as the surface agitation decreases. If your water circulation is below the surface, maybe try bringing it up to the water line. 

Regarding your 0 GH, if you have happy snails and good plant growth I think your test kit may be suspect; as my GH drops my plant leaves develop holes and my snails start to dissappear.


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

I have some pond snails and I add magnesium and traces to the water to provide GH. My GH out of the tap is 0, as well as KH, has been for years.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

If your KH is at zero then you should carefully monitor your pH. With a KH that low, your pH will surely fluctuate since there is nothing there to buffer it.


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

I am baffled as to how your tap water can have KH and GH zero...Most RO systems can't even produce water that pure...you might want to consider verifying your measurements with a high quality test kit.

The oily/protein on the surface can be reduced by surface agitation at night and increased water changes. Mollies and platies will eat it if you want to add them.

The algae could be GSA or GDA. GSA(green spot algae, need a razor blade to remove it) is usually a sign of phospate deficiency, and GDA is a huge can of worms. If it is GDA(green dust algae, comes off easily as a dust) then do a quick search for a post I made called "My GDA Battle"


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

I think it's gda. It comes off easily.

I've used new test kits, old solution, new solution, etc. It may not be 0 but it's close enough to give me a <20 reading which is the tolerance of my test kit. When I add magnesium, the kit gives me GH readings, so it's working in that respect.

KH is also 0 or at least <10 out of the tap. The water is so soft that it leached copper out of the pipes and caused massive failures in my in-laws house which was only 12 years old. They had to completely replumb their house with plastic. The upstairs bathroom here has continual blue-green stains in the tub and sink caused by the copper leaching out of the pipes and coming out in the water. So I don't think my test kit is at fault. Only extremely soft water could accomplish this.


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

Where do you live that has such soft water?

Here's a link to the "My GDA Battle"


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

Newfoundland.

I just found this about the water:

The Langelier index for the water here is -.56.

What is the Langelier Index? 
The Langelier index (LI) is an approximate measure of the degree of saturation of calcium carbonate in water. It is 
calculated using the pH, alkalinity, hardness, total dissolved solids, and water temperature of a water sample collected at 
the tap. If the; 
· LI is negative: The water is under saturated with calcium carbonate and will tend to be corrosive in the 
distribution system 
· LI is positive: The water is over saturated with calcium carbonate and will tend to deposit calcium carbonate 
forming scales in the distribution system 
· If LI is close to zero: The water is just saturated with calcium carbonate and will neither be strongly corrosive or 
scale forming.


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

Just doing some more research...

1. Haloacetic acids (HAAs) are a type of chlorinated disinfection by-products (CDBP) that are formed when the chlorine used to disinfect drinking 
water reacts with naturally occurring organic matter in water. 

156.9 was the reading here. Whatever this means.


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

Ok, more research 

Scratch what I just said...that information was from my town but a totally different source, a drilled well (pH 8.1....my tap water is only 6.6...I knew something wasn't adding up right). My water source is not a well but a brook. My information is not there...I'm going to write to the govt about that.


Edit: Found it! I feel like a kid in a candy store! Doesn't take much I guess. Here are my tap water params:


pH: 6.3
KH: 8ppm
GH: 7ppm
TDS: 27ppm
Calcium: 3ppm
Sodium: 3ppm
Chloride: 7ppm
Sulphate: 2ppm
DOC: 9.2ppm
Copper: .331ppm
Iron: .13 ppm

Everything else...0 or close enough.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

With a TDS of 27 ppm your water is, indeed, very soft. I would think about adding calcium to your tanks-- not just magnesium and trace elements. Assuming you have enough light and other factors, the added calcium may stimulate plant growth. This should help combat the algae.

I wouldn't worry about the surface biofilms.


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

Yeah, I've been looking for a local source of calcium for a while. In a pinch I've used calcium carbonate but it doesn't dissolve well at all. I'll have to order some in pretty soon I guess.


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## OldMan (Sep 22, 2007)

If you can get sea shells. They are a very good source of calcium carbonate. I would expect them to be readily available in newfoundland. You just need to get them into the water circulation pattern such as a few in your filter.


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## [email protected] (Oct 15, 2007)

As aquabillpers suggested, I would use Seachem's Equilibrium. I had good results with it when I was using RO water. It's not as natural as seashells, but it does contain the magnesium you're currently dosing.


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

Seashells do a lot for my KH, but have never increased my GH much. I think I would need large amounts to make a significant impact on my GH. Seachem products aren't available here, but I can order GH booster next time I get fertilizers for my other tanks.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Carissa1 said:


> Seashells do a lot for my KH, but have never increased my GH much. I think I would need large amounts to make a significant impact on my GH. Seachem products aren't available here, but I can order GH booster next time I get fertilizers for my other tanks.


Here's the link that describes how to boost your GH. It's basically a 2:1 mix of calcium chloride and magnesium sulfate. Both chemicals are easily obtainable.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/29062-calcium-dosing-procedure.html

To boost KH, all you have to do is add baking soda, which is sodium bicarbonate.

You're right that seashells do take a long time to dissolve.


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## david f (Mar 24, 2006)

To Carissa1

Blue-Green algae?
I am having trouble with this in my tank at the moment,tried using activated carbon from the brewing shop here for 2 days ,water has now cleared from a cloudy green haze to crystal clear with a yellow tinge to it.hopefully I didn't remove all the DOC.I also had trouble with the blue-green look on the water surface,and when disturbed changes to a white gue.I also manually removed the sticky; slime snails that were becoming a pests.the surface is clear i don't have to continuely remove it now.
this has all been over a coulple of weeks but things have certainly improved.
excess nutrients,bad snails,and turned of all floresent lights ,just window light.though I still have the blue-green algae it does not appear to be causing to much trouble,may be a helping part in my ecosystem.

David f.


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