# Reconstituting R/O water: Equilibrium vs Kent liquid R/O right?



## Danielle (Jan 26, 2008)

I'm using the Seachem for my 5 gallon bottles of R/O water, pouring some into a cup and then mixing in the equilibrium then adding it back to the jug. I repeat with Alkaline buffer to get the KH up a bit. The problem is, the equilibrium does not dissolve all the way. Doesn't matter how much I stir or shake or mix there is always a good amount in the bottom of the cup. 

It seems the Kent would be better as it's already in liquid form, but does it work as well? Seachem claims their stuff is developed specifically for planted tanks.

Thanks!


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

I've never used the Kent stuff, so I can't comment on it. Is your Equilibrium nice and powdered or is it all clumped up? If it gets humid it does that. It has always dissolved quite nicely for me, but I just added it straight to the aquarium after doing an RO waterchange.

There really isn't anything in Equilibrium that isn't fairly soluble. I believe the Ca & Mg is in the form of sulphate salts. They might not disolve easily, but you shouldn't be having clumps left after a good stir. I'm guessing that your Equilibrium isn't fine enough. Try grinding it to a powder prior to mixing.

Tom Barr has a GH booster mix that is about the same thing. You used to be able to get it from Greg Watson's site.


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## Danielle (Jan 26, 2008)

It's a bit clumped up... some large particles that are almost like little rocks and these are what get left behind in the cup.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

My Equilibrium is clumped up a bit with some powder in it too. I've been weighing mine before I add it to an aquarium instead of using a measuring spoon. After I add it to the aquarium, the little clumps dissolve in just a little while. Weighing it out is a minor PITA, but it helps to keep my GH consistent.

My tap water is very soft (1 -2 dGH). The directions on the bottle state that to increase the GH by 3 dH, add 16 grams for every 20 gallons. That's how much that I add.

Equilibrium: http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Equilbrium.html


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## kekon (Aug 1, 2005)

I think you should not worry about it. The salts that are present in the Equilibrium don't dissolve completely in the jug because there is too little water there. Simply pour all the contents of the jug into the tank and it will dissolve in the tank water in a matter of hours. I always have simillar problem when reconstituting RO by means of CaSO4 and MgSO4. Some amounts of CaSO4 are in lumps form and don't dissolve in a cup. However, when put directly into the tank they dissolve completely (it usually takes a few hours)


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Seachem instructions say "To raise mineral content/general hardness (GH) by 1 meq/L (3 dH), add 16 g (1 tablespoon) for every 80 L (20 gallons*) when setting up an aquarium or when making water changes (add to new water)."

This works out to 0.8 gm/gallon RO/DI water. How many of you actually use this much powder? I found thru experimentation I need much less ~0.4 gm/gallon to get my raise my water's GH from 0 to 3 dH (via Tetra Laborette)

Incidentally, suspending the powder in a liter bottle and letting it sit overnight does a pretty good job of breaking up the clumps. The next day I shake it up and pour it into my 7-gallon water jug and its ready.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

I've used both Equilibrium and RO Right, both in powdered form and found that Equilibrium is much slower to dissolve and clouds the water slightly whereas RO Right powder dissolves almost instantly without any clouding. When I was using Equilibrium alone I also had stunting issues with some stem plants which I don't have now that I use RO Right some times after water changes. Of course the Equilibrium may not have been the cause of the stunting; it may have been pure coincidence. Given the choice it's RO Right all the way for me.

I simply add a teaspoon full to each 25l container of RO water to give me tank water of 3-4dGH.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Compared to most other RO mixes, Equilibrium is enormously high in potassium. Under certain conditions I think this can cause some stunting issues.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

guaiac_boy said:


> Compared to most other RO mixes, Equilibrium is enormously high in potassium. Under certain conditions I think this can cause some stunting issues.


Not to mention Amano shrimp deaths when combined with Brighty K!



ed seeley said:


> I've used both Equilibrium and RO Right, both in powdered form and found that Equilibrium is much slower to dissolve and clouds the water slightly whereas RO Right powder dissolves almost instantly without any clouding. When I was using Equilibrium alone I also had stunting issues with some stem plants which I don't have now that I use RO Right some times after water changes. Of course the Equilibrium may not have been the cause of the stunting; it may have been pure coincidence. Given the choice it's RO Right all the way for me.
> 
> I simply add a teaspoon full to each 25l container of RO water to give me tank water of 3-4dGH.


Ed, do you use Kent pH Stable also? I think its probably the same as Seachem Alkaline buffer (i.e., NaHCO3)but the amounts recommended are quite different. Seachem 7 gm (1 tsp) per 10 gal; Kent 1/8 tsp per 20 gal.

I have a bottle of liquid RO right that I have not opened yet. I'll have to give it a try to see if the get clearer water!


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## Danielle (Jan 26, 2008)

Kent also has KH+, a liguid buffer that raises KH... which would be the better of those to use? the PH one or the KH+?



Bunbuku said:


> Not to mention Amano shrimp deaths when combined with Brighty K!
> 
> Ed, do you use Kent pH Stable also? I think its probably the same as Seachem Alkaline buffer (i.e., NaHCO3)but the amounts recommended are quite different. Seachem 7 gm (1 tsp) per 10 gal; Kent 1/8 tsp per 20 gal.
> 
> I have a bottle of liquid RO right that I have not opened yet. I'll have to give it a try to see if the get clearer water!


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Danielle said:


> Kent also has KH+, a liguid buffer that raises KH... which would be the better of those to use? the PH one or the KH+?


According to their website pH stable has "carbonic salts" which I take to mean NaHCO3. The KH+ is part of their Botanica line and contains "Deionized water, carbonic acid salts, sulfate salts". So the only difference vs pH Stable is the convenience of a liquid plus sulfate salts. Not sure what the benefit of the added sulfate is.

From a practical standpoint, the Botanica line does not seem to be as widely distributed as their regular version where I live.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Bunbuku said:


> Ed, do you use Kent pH Stable also? I think its probably the same as Seachem Alkaline buffer (i.e., NaHCO3)but the amounts recommended are quite different. Seachem 7 gm (1 tsp) per 10 gal; Kent 1/8 tsp per 20 gal.
> 
> I have a bottle of liquid RO right that I have not opened yet. I'll have to give it a try to see if the get clearer water!


I don't add anything else to new water other than the RO Right. It gives me 3-4dGH and 0dKH which my softwater fish love. If I need to buffer the pH up for any reason then I mix some of the rejected water from the RO back in to get the desired levels rather than bothering with other buffers.

I do a lean version of EI in the tank and use AS to provide all the other nutrients.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

ed seeley said:


> I don't add anything else to new water other than the RO Right. It gives me 3-4dGH and 0dKH which my softwater fish love. If I need to buffer the pH up for any reason then I mix some of the rejected water from the RO back in to get the desired levels rather than bothering with other buffers.
> 
> I do a lean version of EI in the tank and use AS to provide all the other nutrients.


And no pH issues with 0 dkH? I gather then you can really slow down the rate of CO2 to keep the pH in the 6.0-6.5 range.


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## Brilliant (Jun 25, 2006)

Bunbuku said:


> And no pH issues with 0 dkH? I gather then you can really slow down the rate of CO2 to keep the pH in the 6.0-6.5 range.


Whats a pH issue? You need to inject amount of co2 plants need regardless of pH. 

I've used both Equilibrium and R/O Right. Equilibrium has potassium and other trace nutrients whereas the RO Right has only few GH salts. One is different then the other.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Bunbuku said:


> And no pH issues with 0 dkH? I gather then you can really slow down the rate of CO2 to keep the pH in the 6.0-6.5 range.


I agree with Brilliant and was about to type exactly the same thing! I have a 4dKH drop checker to check the CO2 is at 30ppm during the day and the pH swings by about 1 degree when it turns on and off. The fish love it and spawn regularly. Don't try to aim for a fixed pH. Aim for a GH and KH that will suit your fish and they will be fine; changes to the pH by injecting CO2 don't affect the fish IME.

Brilliant,
I thought they both had potassium in them but there are obviously major differences in the recipe somewhere.


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## ashappard (Jun 3, 2006)

Bunbuku said:


> And no pH issues with 0 dkH? I gather then you can really slow down the rate of CO2 to keep the pH in the 6.0-6.5 range.


0dKH is **not** a disaster waiting to happen. 
Trying to hit a target pH is more likely to cause problems. 
TDS is important, nutrients are important, general hardness is important. 
Buffers, not so much.

ed, and brilliant : thanks for chiming in on the low pH = 'bad things will happen' myth. 
It simply isnt true. If you come across something that *really *is known to
need KH, then add it. But dont think you need it just to keep your pH above a
certain number. Thats superstition. People who consistently run tanks at 0dKH 
with no problems are evidence against this myth.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Brilliant said:


> Whats a pH issue? You need to inject amount of co2 plants need regardless of pH.
> 
> I've used both Equilibrium and R/O Right. Equilibrium has potassium and other trace nutrients whereas the RO Right has only few GH salts. One is different then the other.


Brilliant:
Yeah, the fish are mainly there to provide natural fertilizer for the plants! 
Seriously, I have observed that both R/O right and Equilibrium when added to RO/DI water (aiming for 2-3 dGH) will shift the pH to the alkaline range (pH 7.2) according to my drop checker). When I add CO2 the pH drops faster in the "unbuffered" water, as opposed to when I add pH stable to 2 dKH. But I guess the rate of pH drop is irrelevant since the plants don't care.



ed seeley said:


> I agree with Brilliant and was about to type exactly the same thing! I have a 4dKH drop checker to check the CO2 is at 30ppm during the day and the pH swings by about 1 degree when it turns on and off. The fish love it and spawn regularly. Don't try to aim for a fixed pH. Aim for a GH and KH that will suit your fish and they will be fine; changes to the pH by injecting CO2 don't affect the fish IME.
> 
> Brilliant,
> I thought they both had potassium in them but there are obviously major differences in the recipe somewhere.


Ed:
30 ppm! I thought that the "recommended range" was 10-25 ppm. I have rummy noses, blue rams and oto's and I have been aiming for a pH 6.6-6.4 range. I see your point though. From the dkH/pH table it looks like targeting a 1-0.5 dKH by adding CO2 will get me to pH 6.0-6.4 without adding more chemicals to the water.


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## ashappard (Jun 3, 2006)

Bunbuku said:


> I have observed that both R/O right and Equilibrium when added to RO/DI water (aiming for 2-3 dGH) will shift the pH to the alkaline range


how is Seachem Equilibrium raising the pH? 
Unless they've changed the formula in the last couple years, 
because I never experienced that when I used it. 
I use a bulk cheap GH booster now, and it also does not modify pH.

dont fret over pH, trying to reach a number or range. 
I have inverts / pencils / livebearers / tetras in unbuffered water and inject CO2. 
no problems, stable tanks for a very long time.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Bunbuku said:


> Ed:
> 30 ppm! I thought that the "recommended range" was 10-25 ppm. I have rummy noses, blue rams and oto's and I have been aiming for a pH 6.6-6.4 range. I see your point though. From the dkH/pH table it looks like targeting a 1-0.5 dKH by adding CO2 will get me to pH 6.0-6.4 without adding more chemicals to the water.


A lot of high tech tanks aim for 30ppm CO2 during daylight hours, at least we do over here. I think that's Tom Barr's recommendation for EI (at least I think that's where it came from). It certainly works for me. I turn the CO2 off about an hour before lights out to ensure CO2 levels don't gas the fish overnight and always have a strong flow rate (over 10 times the tank's volume) and the surface is rippled slightly.

Really do not aim for a specific pH; there is no need. If you're keeping soft water fish then give them that, soft water, and add the right amount of CO2 for your plants. Effectively ignore the pH reading. I keep some pretty fussy fish in this way and they thrive and breed.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Wow, what an extremely helpful and relevant discussion by everyone! :clap2:
I appreciate the fact that there is a consensus here about the unimportance of pH.

Ed- now I understand about your comment on the drop checker -_its not a pH monitor_! By adding a reference solution of known dkH, you are using as a way to measure CO2 in the water! I can't believe it took me 4 months in this planted tank hobby to get this through my skull:boink:


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

ashappard said:


> how is Seachem Equilibrium raising the pH?
> Unless they've changed the formula in the last couple years,
> because I never experienced that when I used it.


Ashappard

I wanted to make sure was not mistaken. I remeasured using the Tetra Laborret Kit (whether its a good or bad one I don't know)

1) RO/DI water only - pH 6.0 
2) Added Equilibrium only to 2 dGH - pH >7.0 and <7.5 via color chart

Kent Liquid R/O Right has similar effects. The label says they use "nearly neutral pH salts of sodium, magnesium, potassium, and calcium with all necessary buffers and trace minerals".


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## ashappard (Jun 3, 2006)

hmm. thats not what I would expect. its been a while since I used equilibrium and I'm on bulk GH booster so I cant try to duplicate the test. 

wish I could give you some info on the test kit, but I'm not familiar with it either. 
The only tests I regularly make are TDS and temp. TDS more often than the others. 
I track product water TDS, sometimes read tank TDS throughout the week.
TDS rises at about the same rate as I fertilize, then dips when I change water.
Every so often, I'll test pH with a pen. my tanks are normally at 5.1 - 5.4 pH. 
I mist CO2 with OTP-1000 needlewheel pumps or smaller powerheads. The OTPs
are great for misting though.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

ashappard said:


> hmm. thats not what I would expect. its been a while since I used equilibrium and I'm on bulk GH booster so I cant try to duplicate the test.
> 
> wish I could give you some info on the test kit, but I'm not familiar with it either.
> The only tests I regularly make are TDS and temp. TDS more often than the others.
> ...


Here is the link at DFS. Its a colorimetric kit. 
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4345+4371&pcatid=4371

I've been thinking about investing in one of these that measures pH/TDS. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4345+9848&pcatid=9848


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## ashappard (Jun 3, 2006)

I have the pHep5 from that link and I like it.
my TDS pen came with an RODI unit, and I cant remember
who makes it. I calibrate it every so often works fine.

sorry I cant be much help with test kits, 
and do not own any test kits.
I cant read the colors well, dont have patience
to calibrate the kits and I really really dont like
testing water often enough to feel like I'm 
getting useful information about how the tank
is changing over time.

of course I dont like water changes either, but
havent figured out a good way to wiggle out of
those that doesnt involve going back to testing water. 

at least it is cheap and easy to automate the 
water change.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Bunbuku,
The pH of pure RO water should really be 7, but as there's nothing in there to buffer it a little change can cause larger changes in pH than water with a higher KH so your kit may be a little off or there may be more CO2 (or something else that'll drop the pH) in that water!

I have liquid test kits, digital pH meter, TDS meter and rarely use any of them! Honestly once you have a regime you're happy with and know how much buffer to add to get the TDS/KH/GH you want then you simply change the water weekly and only need to test when something's not quite right or you want to check. I change 25l to 50l weekly and simply add a teaspoon of RO Right/Equilibrium to each container as I add it to the tank. No testing, no hassle, great results (well IMHO anyway!).

Oh, and use a drop checker to monitor your CO2 levels! (If I'd realised you weren't totally sure about that I would have explained it better, sorry!)


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

ed seeley said:


> Bunbuku,
> The pH of pure RO water should really be 7, but as there's nothing in there to buffer it a little change can cause larger changes in pH than water with a higher KH so your kit may be a little off or there may be more CO2 (or something else that'll drop the pH) in that water!


I think its because I have and RO+DI system. After the water comes out of the RO membrane it goes into an ion exchange resin column that exchanges H+ for other trace cations remaining resulting in a slightly acidic water.

Thanks again all for your advice! Cheers!


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