# New company in the US



## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Hope that doesn't sound as an advertisement. I just found the web site last night and was glad to see that they are entering the US market. It'd be nice to have them as sponsors here.

From what I read here the US division of Elos will work toward opening 3 stores in San Francisco.

The stores look stunning. Sit down and click.

From what we can see Elos markets saltwater supplies but also a full line of awesome looking planted tank supplies - planted tank items

--Nikolay


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## gnatster (Mar 6, 2004)

Very interesting, of course being on the east coast I'd like to see them expanding into this market. It's good to see the aquarium as a unit including all the component parts required in one package. It might not be the most cost efficient method but I feel that having an all in one package will draw more to hobby.


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## TNguyen (Mar 20, 2005)

Me like. Hopefully this is a new trend in aquaria for the US market. The more the merrier!

Thanh


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## trckrunrmike (Jan 31, 2005)

WOOHOO! I saw these products in Hong Kong and was amazed, very high quality stuff.


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

I'll ask some of my Italian friends how the products fair, they look like ADA take offs.

I'm not sure how 3 stores in the bay will fair, one perhaps, but 3 of the same or similar will likely not do as well. This is a very heavily saturated market, unless they have a seriously dedicated managers will to work for peanuts for a long time, they will have a tough go of it. And that's just one store.........
They will have an extremely tough time with reef products in the bay. 

I hope to see them soon, we will be on the look out to be sure.
So 25-50ppm of CO2 is now good? Haha, that's the highest level I've seen any company suggest to date. 

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## JaySilverman (Jun 19, 2005)

I really don't like their tanks with the filter inside. Talk about a waste of space.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

> they look like ADA take offs


More grossly over priced merchandise for people who buy into an image. A real tough sell in this country


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## brad (Jul 10, 2005)

I`ve been working closely with these guys for a few months. the US, manager is Jesse Sira jr. Some of you may know him. The stuff is top notch. It`s absolutely beautiful. Cali is indeed going to the first to get there hands on this stuff but then it will be expanding to the rest of North America and yes that means Canada too. 

If you guys are interested, I could show you some beautiful pics of store in Europe like Rome.

I agree, they`re gonna have a tough go at this. They don`t want to simply put there products on the shelves with the rest of the companies, which I think is going to limit the market exposure. I guess at this point, anything could change as it`s a trial in the U.S. market.

The market for these products is gonna very much the same as ADA`s.


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## gnatster (Mar 6, 2004)

Robert Hudson said:


> More grossly over priced merchandise for people who buy into an image. A real tough sell in this country


Where do we start.....

Mercedes
Lexus
Gucci
Polo
Rolex

Get a few trend setters into this and it could possibly take off as a fad with the rich and stupid that mainstream America fawns over and emulates.


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## Johnny99 (Dec 28, 2005)

Robert Hudson said:


> More grossly over priced merchandise for people who buy into an image. A real tough sell in this country





Gnaster said:


> Where do we start.....
> 
> Mercedes
> Lexus
> ...


Give me a break! If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it.! You realize you have directly insulted anyone who owns the products you mentioned?

Robert, I'm surprised you would show such disrespect to a competitor in a public forum.

That said I think more choices can only be good. Remember competition improves the breed. I would love to have a gorgeous store like that near me. And I suspect so would many other people.


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## gnatster (Mar 6, 2004)

Johnny99 said:


> Give me a break! If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it.! You realize you have directly insulted anyone who owns the products you mentioned?
> 
> Robert, I'm surprised you would show such disrespect to a competitor in a public forum.
> 
> That said I think more choices can only be good. Remember competition improves the breed. I would love to have a gorgeous store like that near me. And I suspect so would many other people.


I wrote this poorly quickly while at work and it's poor now that I look back at it.

I was only try to make a point there are many products on the market that are luxury goods that have less expensive counterpoints that offer much of the same functionality. Whats good to see is the market has matured to a point where there is a percieved desire for goods of this type.

The other point I was trying top make is when there are goods such as this in a market there is a group of lemmings that will follow if a "name" decides it's the new in thing for them.

I really need to not post at work when I am rushed. Sorry for any misunderstanding.


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## Johnny99 (Dec 28, 2005)

No harm done.


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

While new brands and competition is good IMO, I wonder how large the market is for such high line products.

People always carry on about how they want something, then when it's available, suddenly they do not want to buy it, especially if it's pricy.

Market development is much more the issue for both this company and ADA, something they have really done little with, we already have an ADA store in SF, as well as at least 3-4 good plant stores, and 70 SFBAAPS members, but we rarely buy anything from these stores, we grow stuff and sell/plant swap etc, so there is generally lower sales due to this inclusion, but...the trade off for the store: good high quality trimmings from local sources for trade.

But the average newbie will look at the products and question the value and then see Petco/Petsmart and a large tank for 1/2 the cost, and you do not need to be Alan Greenspan to figure out what the buyer in the US will go for.

So the market slice of the pie will be very small for this company as well as ADA. Amano at least has a name and many books that have been here for a few years, these guys?

This is the first I've heard of them.
Tropica also has had misgivings about developing a market in the USA for various similar reasons. Folks will likely not pay the premium when they can get the cheaper stuff.

For myself, I love classy stuff.
But few newbies can justify it.

The newbies are what builds this hobby, like it or not.
So market development needs to focus there.
Same with hobby development for the future.

Regards, 
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Here's some, somewhat amusing, food for thought:

What year did tanks with thick plastic rims and center brace appear in the US?

--Nikolay


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## brad (Jul 10, 2005)

I think as time goes on, and more and more demand is made for things like rimless tanks and glass.....everything, there will be companies who are able to make it with maybe less quality but still look classy. I think those are the companies that will do well in the future. ADA and such will fill the gap and grab the market until others decide to get their slice.


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## jerseyjay (Jan 25, 2004)

I see future for this type of merchandise. 

5 years ago people were buying T12 bulbs in HomeDepot trying to save 1-2$ on each bulb. 5 years ago people were using "local sand" and adding some cheap peat as your standard "miracle" substrate. 

Nowadays, NEW hobbyists are starting off with ADA tanks, ADA Aquasoil / Powersand, Flourite, Onxy, Eco-complet, T5 or MH, manzanita wood and list goes on ...... 

People are not afraid to spend money, regardless of level of experience.


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## JaySilverman (Jun 19, 2005)

More options is good. If someone wants to buy a sleek lookign piece of equipment for double the cost then that's their buisness for not shopping around.


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## MATTHEW MAHLING (Dec 1, 2005)

brad said:


> If you guys are interested, I could show you some beautiful pics of store in Europe like Rome.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Yes. Please.


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## fishfry (Apr 15, 2004)

I don't know about their wet products, but some of their hardware looks very beautiful. Thanks for sharing.

oh and "oh no here we go again..."


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## brad (Jul 10, 2005)

MATTHEW MAHLING said:


> brad said:
> 
> 
> > If you guys are interested, I could show you some beautiful pics of store in Europe like Rome.
> ...


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

http://www.acquaportal.it/Negozio/aqua_studio/impressioni.asp
http://www.acquaportal.it/Negozio/Aqua_Viva/impressioni.asp

Other than the 2 or 3 California stores that we all know about what other US store is "cool"? Can someone post links to pictures?

--Nikolay


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## brad (Jul 10, 2005)

I had my computer fixed the other day and now they`ve disappered. they were much the same as the ones Niko posted. Different photos but of the same things. The most impressice was the store in Rome at night time. The sign glowed beautifully, you could see in and see the tanks. It was nice. if I can get just that one back, I`ll be happy and I`ll poste it here.


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## opiesilver (Dec 30, 2004)

To me it looks like they are building their customer base by using the perception of value. The Lexus and Mercedes brands are an example of this strategy. Another example of the same strategy is ADA branded equipment and products. The idea is to get the maximum margin on a product and have a smaller customer base. In theory you could make just as much money selling fewer products. If you look at the bread and butter brands like Tetra or Ford the idea is to sell as many as the market will support at a low cost. You make your money on volume sales. The second approach is more likely to be vulnerable to market fluctuations than the first. In the first strategy you have a group of people that don't have the same value for money as the people in the second. The second group is worried more about how they are going to make the next car payment whereas the first is worried about if a tee time is available at the members only golf course on Saturday morning.

There will always be a market for the "luxury" items and brands. There will also always be a market for the "economy" items and brands. Most people will gravitate toward the middle and get a little bit of luxury mixed with a bit of economy in most products because the perception is the economy is cheap and poorly made while the luxury is way over priced and nearly unattainable.

Did I make any sense to anyone other than myself?


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Makes sense to me! 

The cabinet shop I used to work at was like this. It was high end and almost everything was created in shop. After September 11th, when alot of businesses in our region saw slumps and the economy went downhill a bit, the shop's business boomed. People who build million dollar homes don't bat an eye at paying $100K plus for a kitchen! The perception of value is very important in the high end of the market. We didn't do near the volume as the other cabinet shops in the area but when you can get twice the profit from half as many jobs, volume doesn't matter as much!


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## JaySilverman (Jun 19, 2005)

Of course none of you actually know their prices so you're just assuming they are expensive.
Am I right?


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## trckrunrmike (Jan 31, 2005)

JaySilverman said:


> Of course none of you actually know their prices so you're just assuming they are expensive.
> Am I right?


They cost a lot in Hong Kong but not as much as ADA products


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## JaySilverman (Jun 19, 2005)

But we aren't talkign about Hong Kong. We are talking America


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## opiesilver (Dec 30, 2004)

Why would a company change it's pricing strategy especially when opening shop in a country known for spending money like it's water?


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## brad (Jul 10, 2005)

Elos will also offer a lower priced line to ''introduce'' people and newbies to the company. They realize that not everyone is in the market for high end products and new people to the hobby need to start somewhere.


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## gnatster (Mar 6, 2004)

brad said:


> Elos will also offer a lower priced line to ''introduce'' people and newbies to the company. They realize that not everyone is in the market for high end products and new people to the hobby need to start somewhere.


Makes sense.

I'm wondering tho, how do you know this Brad, is it speculation, something I missed on their site since I don't read the language or are you involved with them in some capacity?


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## Jesse (Jan 20, 2006)

I've been following along. Interesting read. Let me know if you have any questions. Jesse, Elos USA


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## brad (Jul 10, 2005)

gnatster said:


> Makes sense.
> 
> I'm wondering tho, how do you know this Brad, is it speculation, something I missed on their site since I don't read the language or are you involved with them in some capacity?


Nope. Just drop them an email. They`ll tell you everything you want to know. I contacted them a while ago and they`ve been nice enough to keep me updated on progress. I`m way up in the cold north and the action is happening in Cali right now so I`m stuck watching from a distance for the time being.

Nice to see you`re here Jesse. Nick been here too?


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## Jesse (Jan 20, 2006)

Yeah, we both have. I have been following 3 different forums that found out yesterday. This is the only freshwater one and I see that there are some people posting from California. Nice to see. I will keep checking back. Jesse


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## gnatster (Mar 6, 2004)

> Just drop them an email. They`ll tell you everything you want to know.


Novel idea, wish I thought of it.



> Let me know if you have any questions. Jesse, Elos USA


Welcome to APC

Can you tell us a bit about the company please?


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## Jesse (Jan 20, 2006)

> Can you tell us a bit about the company please?


Let me know what you are interested in and I can talk about that. One of the things I noticed earlier in this thread was about the amount of stores in the SF bay area. Initially we want to build an inventory in the US before we open a dedicated Aquastudio. I do not plan to have 3 stores in the bay area, but I have talked to 3 stores who want to carry the product that are all in California. These stores are about 3 hours apart and they will only carry some of our products. Hope that clears things up a bit. I will keep checking back Jesse


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## TNguyen (Mar 20, 2005)

Jesse said:


> Let me know what you are interested in and I can talk about that. One of the things I noticed earlier in this thread was about the amount of stores in the SF bay area. Initially we want to build an inventory in the US before we open a dedicated Aquastudio. I do not plan to have 3 stores in the bay area, but I have talked to 3 stores who want to carry the product that are all in California. These stores are about 3 hours apart and they will only carry some of our products. Hope that clears things up a bit. I will keep checking back Jesse


Welcome to the board Jesse. Can you tell us more about the substrates. Additive, etc

Thanh


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## Jesse (Jan 20, 2006)

TNguyen said:


> Welcome to the board Jesse. Can you tell us more about the substrates. Additive, etc
> 
> Thanh


I was just talking about getting the German Elos rep to come and say a few things on this board. He is very knowledgable about those particular products. I will see if can get him on here. I was amazed at some of his work at a few German Aquastudios he set up. Thanks and I will check back and I will see if Klaus can come on and say a word or two. Jesse


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## opiesilver (Dec 30, 2004)

gnatster said:


> Novel idea, wish I thought of it.


Just makes you want to smack your own head now doesn't it?


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

Jay Luto said:


> People are not afraid to spend money, regardless of level of experience.


I agree but the market is still very small for international companies with high end stuff. I think most folks like a choice of a cheap brand, medium and high end.

I know the market in SF, it's very tough and there is a local estblished group that is very good at what they do already in place. It's going to take a lot to beat that and to muscle in on ADA product's line for the high end and also to compete with SeaChem's product line domestically.

Then you have to have people that are good at the bsuiness and know the local regions and are willing to work and know the scaping and display set up.

It's far from an easy business venture. 
I welcome it and would like to have such a store around, but would I buy the products over ADA, mid range Seachem, or cheaper DIY devices or soil master?

We have 3 plant stores here already, they sure are not getting rich either.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## jerseyjay (Jan 25, 2004)

Tom, 

All valid points. I guess at the end it is all personal choice. 

I have the same approach in every hobby. I like quality over quantity if it works ! I don't mind spending 600$ for light fixture for my new custom made 90G setup if I know that 600$ is well spend and I can not get anything better in that price range. The same applied to photography. I have been enjoying photography for past 15 or so years. Started with cheap ZENIT manual camera and got to the point were $5,000 Nikon camera was a logical step and I went for it. 

Are those prices / companies good choices for everyone, probably not but in my opinion there is market out there for those seeking high-end products.


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## Simpte 27 (Jul 16, 2004)

Jay Luto said:


> I see future for this type of merchandise.
> 
> 5 years ago people were buying T12 bulbs in HomeDepot trying to save 1-2$ on each bulb. 5 years ago people were using "local sand" and adding some cheap peat as your standard "miracle" substrate.
> 
> ...


A bit misleading.....................................
I know of no new hobbyist that started off this way; myself included. I started with a 20 gallon tank that I already had and eased my way into it.
The "lemmings" may start out this way but the masses usually don't. I see this in every forum I go to. If more hobbyists did start this way we'd have much less to talk about in the forums. How many posts do you see about bba? or green spot? The same questions asked by many, many different people who want to get away with having as little as possible in a tank. Price alone deters many people from planted tanks and saltwater. Even here we have always looked for a cost effective substrate for larger tanks. 
But I do agree with you in some ways because some do get into the hobby and buy everything possible (even the snake oils and miracle cures and substrates).


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## Jesse (Jan 20, 2006)

First off, let me thank the people who have contacted me via email and phone from this forum. I was a bit surprised that the word would spread to the freshwater crowd so quickly. I have been reading along about the market in the US and everyone has brought up valid points. First off let me say that we are dedicated to making this work in the US as it has in Europe and Asia. One of the things that gave me confidence in the product line was the ability to open "mono brand shops" in Germany. As most of you know the marketplace there is about as tough as it is going to get. I have emailed the elos rep. of Germany and made him aware of this forum and perhaps he will be able to add more to this discussion. Without going into too much detail, I believe it can work in the US. Honestly, we are a small company and in no hurry to rush anything to a market that is not ready for it. A large part of our initial shipments will be our marine products, since this is a larger market in the US for the high end aquarium products. Because we want to carry the full line we will slowly inventory our freshwater line for the few customers who are interested and continue to build the market for these products in the US. It amazes me the difference in perception of the freshwater hobby in Europe and the US. As other hobbyist realize the challenge of the planted aquarium I would hope that this hobby will continue to grow and allow many new brands to manufacture products for this market. I tend to agree this venture will be a challenge and we look forward to it. I am one of those who believe that quality and service always has a market. Again, thanks for the input and thanks to the moderators of this forum for allowing me to post on this forum without being an official sponsor, yet  I respect the fact that these forums need sponsors to offer this free service and I will remember this when we are ready to advertise to this community. Jesse


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

If Northern California is already saturated, Why not Southern California? There has got to be more of a market down here for high end reef equipment with Hollywood and all the actors in the area. Irvine spectrum would be a perfect spot (Orange County's new downtown), lots of people traffic (introduce people to the hobby). You've got a budding plant group (S.C.A.P.E.). Orange County's has one of the top ten economy's in the U.S. (there is money in the area). Dedicated enthusiast (I've got 3 years of layout experience to help create displays, will work for aquarium equipment). Major ports for exports. Las Vegas nearby (another large high end reef market).


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## Jesse (Jan 20, 2006)

IUnknown said:


> If Northern California is already saturated, Why not Southern California? There has got to be more of a market down here for high end reef equipment with Hollywood and all the actors in the area. Irvine spectrum would be a perfect spot (Orange County's new downtown), lots of people traffic (introduce people to the hobby). You've got a budding plant group (S.C.A.P.E.). Orange County's has one of the top ten economy's in the U.S. (there is money in the area). Dedicated enthusiast (I've got 3 years of layout experience to help create displays, will work for aquarium equipment). Major ports for exports. Las Vegas nearby (another large high end reef market).


I will be down in LA to deliver to a customer and a store that will carry Elos products. While he will carry mostly the saltwater products he did ask about eventually carrying both. He is in west LA but I have been contacted by a few stores from southern california. I'll keep you guys informed as we progress. After InterZoo, in may ,I should have a lot more information on new products. Jesse


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## John S (Jan 18, 2005)

jesse are u going to open up a store in the seattle area we need a good store up here


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## Jesse (Jan 20, 2006)

Any decent stores around you that I can talk to? I think the best is to find a store that has good people and see if they are interested in our products. As we build our inventory I will start to look for shops like this. You can send me an email if you have any suggestions. Thanks, Jesse [email protected]


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## quadzz (Feb 7, 2006)

You should talk to these guys since I shop there  : 

Aquatic Life Forms
1247 S Mary Ave, Sunnyvale, CA
(408) 245-9600

edit: four zero eight (I don't know why it puts a smiley..)


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## Jesse (Jan 20, 2006)

quadzz,
yep I have been there. I will talk to them to see if they are interested in the line.


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## Jesse (Jan 20, 2006)

*2006 Elos Catalog*

Here is a link to download the new catalog. It is 13.2 mb's so it will take a while to download, depending on your connection. After it has downloaded, save it to your computer to save you the time of doing it again and save my bandwidth Enjoy!
http://www.primalreptile.com/elos_06.pdf


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