# My first Journal. Trying out Rio ***** Biotope.



## dirrtybirdy

Well, after having a planted tank for several months I decided to try out a Rio ***** Biotope. I saw several different blackwater biotopes and it inspired me to start my own. I always loved the look of schooling cardinal tetras, so I did my research and gathered materials from pet stores and from members on this board to start my tank. So far my set up is this...

























I took these pictures right after I got done with it.

I added some almond leaves last night to make the water a tea color. I dont have any filtration or a heater yet. I working on getting a Eheim ECCO 2232. Im not sure what kind of light is needed for a blackwater tank, but I read that you dont really need much light. Ill go home and take more pictures tonight i think the water is less cloudy.

C&C are welcome.


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## AaronT

What are your plans for plants? I'm hoping to setup a blackwater tank one day myself.


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## dirrtybirdy

I dont think imma put plants in there. i want about 30-40 cardinal tetras though. i dont know what other fish i can put in there that are indigenous to the rio ***** that are compatible with the cardinal.


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## chadly

that looks great! 

Here's some ideas to throw around. Go minimal on plants absolutely no ground cover, maybe some random swords and some really cool hygro. Leave the sandy right side open and brightly lit. Cardinals are an ok fish, a bit over used, but it'll def add some color. Depending on what size tank you have, you could even try some small cichlids with your tetras! Definitely some small plecos. If you go with a dark background that will help w/ the dark effect. I've always thought of a blackwater biotope as eerie and dark, so maybe lights in the front only on the left. That'll leave some mystery to whats lurking behind the wood. I'm always excited to see tanks like this, can't wait to see what you do...


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## dirrtybirdy

i would like some plants in there that dont require much light or any kind of substrate. i do plan on putting a light in the sandy part and having the wood side a dark or with less light. i still dont know what kind of fishes i want to put in. but def. alot of cardinals. what kind of plecos/small cat fish come from the rio *****?


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## Afyounie

If you go to *cichlid-forum.com* they have profiles on different cichlids. You can look at the dwarf cichlids in the south american category. There are a lot of blackwater tanks on that site made especially for dwarf apistos and other dwarf blackwater fish. Cardinal tetras should be ok with dwarf apistos due to the different regions of the tank they occupy, and the apistos are really small. For plants, put stuff that would grow tall enough to get to the light, because there isn't much that grows low in those low light conditions.


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## dirrtybirdy

maybe some

True Rummynose Tetra 
Purple Emperor Tetra
Black Stripe Dwarf Cichlid
kunk Cory Cat
maybe some Discus?


lol i really dont know. i guess ill see after the 30-40 tetras


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## ed seeley

Try a big shoal of cardinals as the main theme (overused maybe, but stunning in any tank and show-stopping in this one IMO) and then a smaller group of marbled hatchets at the surface, a pair of Apisotgramma nijsenni (a pair forming Apisto that come from similar blackwater habitats) and maybe some Otos or Whiptail catfish.

For plants I'd stick some Amzon frogbit in to float on the surface with its roots trailing down. Maybe a solitary small sword or two in the lighter areas too?


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## dirrtybirdy

ed, 

are the mentioned fish all from south america? maybe i dont need them to be from rio ***** per say, but same origin. 

I was looking at the apisto they look really nice. also the hatchets might make a nice edition as well. thanks alot...i think my vision is getting a little clearer


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## intermediate_noob

These links might help also:

http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope_rio_sucasari.htm

http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope_amazon_blackwater.htm

If you have never checked out mongabay.org or fishbase.org I would definitely recommend it. Fishbase let's you search by river in South America and shows all the fish that inhabit that area. As far as purchasing fish, I have had awesome luck with Mainlycichlids for all my South American cichlid needs and Exotic Finds for my Plecos.

What size is your tank? And schools of tetras can be great no matter what kind you get. Just think about the size you want them to be. Cardinals do not get that large at right around 2 inches or so. I have 20 of them in a community tank and they are great, but a little shy. The red/blue Columbian tetras though are almost three inches long, inch-and-a-half high, have great color and school to the glass when I put my finger on it. Great fish. Anyway, just my two cents.

Oh, and one more thing. Besides almond leaves how else are you going to keep the blackwater theme going? The water parameters normally call for a very low pH in these tanks but wondered if you were going that way.

Keep us updated, and love the hardscape!


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## Brilliant

Dicrossus filamentosa...one of my favorite fish.

What is that substrate? Hopefully its not effecting parameters.


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## travis

I am really impressed with the job you've done on the wood. It really catches the eye. If you moved the large piece of wood in the front back a bit it would open up the front left side more so that you could have a better view of the fish, although I'm just going from what I see in the pics. The rock substrate is very natural looking too. Scattering it a bit more into the sand (or vice versa) may improve the random/natural look, but again I'm just going from what I can see in the pics. Great work!


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## bratyboy2

oh wow i love the hardscape!!!!!!rayer:rayer:he idea for cardinals is great no matter what they say...their colors are going to just pop! if the tank is big enough a pair of discus or even maybe a pair of silver angels. the dwarf cichlid idea is cute i love them i would go with a pair or apistos like said or my favorite the german blue rams...otos are a good idea but i love the twig cats they are sweet and wiil be amazing in here...i love the frog bit idea it will help the tank get that water dance look...o wow i hope you do this i can only imagin...if you really want to make it look great get some of the fake plastic vines from drs foster and smith..here is the link
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+6635+7393+12124&pcatid=12124
put them more by the wood dropping into the wood 
cory cats...i love the jullis and the sterbai tell me what you think


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## dirrtybirdy

intermediate_noob said:


> These links might help also:
> 
> http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope_rio_sucasari.htm
> 
> http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope_amazon_blackwater.htm
> 
> If you have never checked out mongabay.org or fishbase.org I would definitely recommend it. Fishbase let's you search by river in South America and shows all the fish that inhabit that area. As far as purchasing fish, I have had awesome luck with Mainlycichlids for all my South American cichlid needs and Exotic Finds for my Plecos.
> 
> What size is your tank? And schools of tetras can be great no matter what kind you get. Just think about the size you want them to be. Cardinals do not get that large at right around 2 inches or so. I have 20 of them in a community tank and they are great, but a little shy. The red/blue Columbian tetras though are almost three inches long, inch-and-a-half high, have great color and school to the glass when I put my finger on it. Great fish. Anyway, just my two cents.
> 
> Oh, and one more thing. Besides almond leaves how else are you going to keep the blackwater theme going? The water parameters normally call for a very low pH in these tanks but wondered if you were going that way.
> 
> Keep us updated, and love the hardscape!


thanks for the links! i think i am going to add some swords, maybe 2-3. I think i will also stick with the cardinal tetras. theyre color will stank out more in a blackwater tank (i think).

the sand is from a LFS and the gravel is from a building material place. i didnt want to mix it too much cause i was scared i wouldnt like the gravel but after setting it up i really like the way it looks.

travis thanks for pointing out the large piece of wood. i think i will move it to the back or take it out tomorrow =P i guess i over looked that piece. lol...i added the almond leaves last night and when i went home they were already at the bottom. the water is turning into a tea color so its doing its job. it looks alot better with the leaves at the bottom. i will take pictures when i finish messing with the tank a little bit more.

thanks for all the comments guys


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## dirrtybirdy

btw its a 30 gal


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## ed seeley

dirrtybirdy said:


> ed,
> 
> are the mentioned fish all from south america? maybe i dont need them to be from rio ***** per say, but same origin.
> 
> I was looking at the apisto they look really nice. also the hatchets might make a nice edition as well. thanks alot...i think my vision is getting a little clearer


They're all Amazonian. I believe the nijsenni and cardinals are sympatric, but think the others are from whitewaters rather than blackwaters. They'd all look great IMHO in your tank though.

As it's only a 30g then you may be best going for just cardinals, nijsenni and a few Otos as otherwise you may be overstocked.


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## dirrtybirdy

alright here we go! right before i took it all apart and reassembled it! lol


























what do you think with the tea color?


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## bratyboy2

it looks good but are you going to keep those leaves?...what did you think of the ideas i told you about and if you ae not keeping them in there i would switch them out for oak leaves and plant the swords...should look very natural


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## dirrtybirdy

heres the new layout. to me its a little more intricate. what do you guys think?


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## orlando

Very cool, how do you get the perfect tannin tone?


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## Afyounie

That looks real nice. The way you made the wood look like real roots is awesome. The leaves give it a real natural look. I can't wait to see what fish you put in it. I don't think I would add any plants, except maybe some tall swords in the back.
Great job.


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## dirrtybirdy

bratyboy2 said:


> it looks good but are you going to keep those leaves?...what did you think of the ideas i told you about and if you ae not keeping them in there i would switch them out for oak leaves and plant the swords...should look very natural


 im definitely going to keep the almond leaves. i like the way they look in the tank. I also ripped some up and scattered it around the tank to make it seem more natural. Im not sure if im going to put any swords in them yet...im kinda digging the hard scape.



orlando said:


> Very cool, how do you get the perfect tannin tone?


 you simply add the leaves! lol

as of now..im trying to win a eheim canister filter auction on ebay. i lost the last one by a messily dollar. lol. I cant wait to have the filtration done so i can finally put fishes.

oh and btw...anyone know of any test kits? im going to have to test my water soon.

once again thanks for the feedback everyone!


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## dirrtybirdy

Ok! i just came back from a LFS and i know have the choices of Green Neon Tetras or Cardinal Tetras. The guy was telling me the Green Neon Tetras are uber rare and since im buying in bulk he told me he would sell them for the same price. now they were small and i couldnt really tell the difference between the two. what do you guys think?

he was also saying the cockatoo apistogrammas were very territorial. i really want one for my tank. will they harm the other tank mates? what say you?


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## KRiley

The green neons would be a good buy for sure. They arent as red as cardinals but definately a great looking fish. All apistos are territorial. What size is the tank? If it were me I would add a trio of apistos in there. If you want to go with a "biotope" I would not go with the Apisto. cacatouides because most of those are artifical color morphs. I would get some Apisto. panduro...those would look really cool in there.


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## dirrtybirdy

interesting...i searched them up on the web and they do look interesting. i was thinking half and half but i think it would be kinda weird. well i have about 2 weeks till my tank is ready for the fishes.

i would like to hear more input =P 

thanks kriley


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## bratyboy2

i like the cardinals....and the cockatoo are not that bad. they are easy and would work great in this tank... i really think the swords are a good idea


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## arowanaman

This would be a perfect tank for cardinals and maybe some wild discus, my favorite Tefe greens.


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## ed seeley

I'd go with the Green neons and then a wild type of Apistogramma. They will defend an area in the tank but your tank should be large enough for the other fish to get out of the way! I'd go with a pair forming species, like panduro or nijsenni as they are more likely to raise babies successfully in a tank full of tetras IME!


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## dirrtybirdy

ahhhh im so torn! lol i dont know what to get! green neons or cardinal???? well i have about two weeks to make a decision...does anyone have a school of green neons that can show me?


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## CmLaracy

how about some rummy's? They're native to the Rio *****... and are great looking fish. Amano uses 'em in his biotopes.


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## dirrtybirdy

CmLAracy, I thought about that but in a dark tank id rather have something a little more flashy and that will stand out in the dark tank. do you have a link to amano's biotope?


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## intermediate_noob

dirrtybirdy said:


> ahhhh im so torn! lol i dont know what to get! green neons or cardinal???? well i have about two weeks to make a decision...does anyone have a school of green neons that can show me?


I had a group of 10 green neons and all but two of them died so I decided to get a group of 20 or so cardinals. They all school together and I can only tell them apart in the right light. Honestly, I think that you will find that they both will look very much the same in the tank. Just my two cents.


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## dirrtybirdy

interesting.

here are pics for reference 

















how do you think half and half would look?


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## intermediate_noob

Wow, take a look at this page.

http://www.mikofish.com/subpage1.html

That is how the ones I had looked. And wow, I wish I would have found that page like two years ago! I know where my night will be spent. Does that make me a fish geek?

Also, I forgot to ask. Where did you get your leaves?


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## stewy098

intermediate_noob said:


> Wow, take a look at this page.
> 
> http://www.mikofish.com/subpage1.html
> 
> That is how the ones I had looked. And wow, I wish I would have found that page like two years ago! I know where my night will be spent. Does that make me a fish geek?
> 
> Also, I forgot to ask. Where did you get your leaves?


wow wish i lived near there i would probably go there everyday lol and dirrtybirdy what are the 1st pic of neons


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## dirrtybirdy

stewy098 said:


> dirrtybirdy what are the 1st pic of neons


 its a green neon tetra. the red is not as dominant as cardinals or regular neons.

that video is awesome. i wish i had a river full of cardinals =P


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## dirrtybirdy

awesome! i added 1 cardinal and 1 gold tetra and theyre following each other around. im guessing they like it! i cant wait for my filter!!


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## bratyboy2

wow that video was so neat very inspiring to me that i had to save it to my favorites lol.

dirrty~that sounds cool a love the carinals...the others just dont look that great to me in any picture. and when did you decide on gold tetras?


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## dirrtybirdy

bratyboy2 said:


> wow that video was so neat very inspiring to me that i had to save it to my favorites lol.
> 
> dirrty~that sounds cool a love the carinals...the others just dont look that great to me in any picture. and when did you decide on gold tetras?


lol i had several gold tetras in my planted tank a while back. i took them out and put them in a tank at my gfs house and this one was left over as was the cardinal. they were the hardeset to catch so i left them alone.

im starting to think they actually like this tank alot better than the planted tank. ive never seen the cardinal tetra with so much red. they dont hide like they did in the planted tank. they actually chase each other around throught he twisted driftwood. i can only imagine how 40-50 would look like swimming around chasing each other.

so i finally got some current in the water and it cleared up the cloudiness. took some pics


















i added two more almond leaves cause i want the water to be a little bit more tea'ish. what do you guys think? am i making progress?


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## bratyboy2

looks good to me!!! i thought you were putting a black back ground on the tank? i think the cardinals will look great once the tank is done....are still debating on plants at this point? if anything with the low light i would add some of those red fox tail plants that petsmart sells or anypet store does i think they would look neat.(im meaning the fake plastic ones you wont know the differience)


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## dirrtybirdy

theres some weird white mucusy slime growing on the wood..can any help me get rid of it or tell me what it is


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## Afyounie

When the wood is new, it grows that stuff. You can wipe it off. It eventually dies off. I think it is a fungus.


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## bratyboy2

did you get the rest of your cardinals yet? any updated pictures yet?


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## fishlover

Nice tank I have a similar Rio ***** biotope and I can tell you you are going to enjoy the way the fish will feel at ease in this tank that recalls their origins...
The white slime is probably fungus which will disappear eventually, I had the same problem and after a few days, maybe a week everything was back to normal.


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## KRiley

Ottos will take care of the slime that your having. Add some fish!!! I want to see this tank with some apistos!


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## dirrtybirdy

Wow i thought you guys would have forgotten about my tank =P.

I really appreciate everyones interest in my biotope!



bratyboy2 said:


> did you get the rest of your cardinals yet? any updated pictures yet?


 I was going to get them last week, but an aquarium guy that comes into my work to maintain the saltwater tank we have said that he can get cardinals for 60cents each! and filters for half off. I was going to buy a used one on ebay for 60 bucks but if he can get it half off then i might aswell get a new one =P. i forgot to ask him if he can get green neon tetras as well cause im still torn on the fishes i want to get.



fishlover said:


> Nice tank I have a similar Rio ***** biotope and I can tell you you are going to enjoy the way the fish will feel at ease in this tank that recalls their origins...
> The white slime is probably fungus which will disappear eventually, I had the same problem and after a few days, maybe a week everything was back to normal.


 i cant wait to have school of tetras! the few that i have in there already swim with each other in and out of the drift wood. it looks awesome! and as for the fungus problem i took care of it manually today. the way the scape was looking didnt look right to me. so i took it all apart, scrubbed all the slime away and redid it AGAIN! lol i think i changed it 3 times already =P..im pretty content right now with the lay out.

i really want to get the filter! i cant wait i want to add fishes already! lol



KRiley said:


> Ottos will take care of the slime that your having. Add some fish!!! I want to see this tank with some apistos!


 ive tried to look everywhere for apistos! LFS in the in west LA sucks!! everything is super expensive and not alot of options. i added one otto a few days ago but the tank is so dark i can barely find him sometimes.

i will take new pictures tomorrow as soon as i get home from work. i want to know what you guys think about the new lay out.

well good night everyone! gotta wake up early and go to court to fight a stupid ticket =l


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## chadly

Love the way the tank looks. To me, now that I see it. I wouldn't put any plants in it. 

I'll be getting ready to do a similar tank w/ larger cichlids. My tank is 120 gal (4'x2'x2') I'm gonna look for some almond leaves.


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## KRiley

If your having a hard time finding apistos....checke these out:

http://twofishguyz.com/shop/index.cfm?action=ViewCategory&Category=59&start=1

http://www.southernapistos.com

I have not dealt with either source but I have heard good things about both sources. I intend to do business is with TwoFishGuyz soon. Good luck!


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## dirrtybirdy

KRiley said:


> If your having a hard time finding apistos....checke these out:
> 
> http://twofishguyz.com/shop/index.cfm?action=ViewCategory&Category=59&start=1
> 
> http://www.southernapistos.com
> 
> I have not dealt with either source but I have heard good things about both sources. I intend to do business is with TwoFishGuyz soon. Good luck!


 ive been to the twofishguyz.com but i get kinda sketchy buying fishes that i havent seen with my own eyes. i really picky when it comes to my fish lol. i dont know why. maybe i should just get over it and get one online if i cant find one within the next month =P thanks for the links


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## dirrtybirdy

Well well well. im trying to take pictures of the tank and the dark water is reflecting everything in the background!!! grrr does anyone know how to work around this?? i cant get a decent picture without the reflections.


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## dirrtybirdy

A. borellii 'Opal' ..Red Face

How do you guys think of a pair of those will look?


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## Afyounie

Beautiful fish. I think they would look nice in that tank. They would definitely feel at home in your tank.


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## dirrtybirdy

well after messing around with the lights i kinda got it to work. I think cause the dark tank the camera doesnt focus well
















































f

I cant wait for the fishes!


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## fishman9809

The tank looks awesome, though it is a biotope, I thinkt he tank is a little too dark. Mine will not have the tea color. I will use a canister filter and make it clear. It looks very natural though. Try and reduce the darkness just a LITTLE!!!!! Then it will look perfect. Look at the underwater taping, then you will know how dark the water should be.:


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## dirrtybirdy

fishman9809 said:


> The tank looks awesome, though it is a biotope, I thinkt he tank is a little too dark. Mine will not have the tea color. I will use a canister filter and make it clear. It looks very natural though. Try and reduce the darkness just a LITTLE!!!!! Then it will look perfect. Look at the underwater taping, then you will know how dark the water should be.:


lol i dont have a filter yet. I thought i had this hook up but hes nowhere to be found. he goes to aquatic warehouses and said he can get 50% off anything. so im waiting for him to give me a call.
ive tried to change 20-30% of the water but it went back to that super dark color. =P guess i have to wait.


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## KRiley

I love it! I like how dark it is...its gonna make those Apistos feel right at home. If you go with cardinals or green neons they will shine in that darker water. I like the borelli very nice fish....good beginner apisto. You should be able to see some nice breeding behavior in that set up.


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## bratyboy2

dirrty, i like the tank my only complaint is the angels...i would have gone with the silver angels because the ones you have are not found in the wild...the borellis are nice i love them myself but they are a cooler water apisto so with the cardinals being higher temp...i would say maybe something different maybe agazzi or cockatoos i love the cockatoo orange flash they are so pretty or you could do the "white" ones. just some tips nothing to be mean im setting mine up not that the whether is nice.


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## fishman9809

any filter would work, you just have to crack it up for a while, or add purigen for a short period of time.


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## It's Me

I love my green neon tetra's. I have found that they are much smaller than the cardinals. Their full size is around an inch. For me it was an easy choice once I saw some in a tank.


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## dirrtybirdy

KRiley said:


> I love it! I like how dark it is...its gonna make those Apistos feel right at home. If you go with cardinals or green neons they will shine in that darker water. I like the borelli very nice fish....good beginner apisto. You should be able to see some nice breeding behavior in that set up.


 the two cardinals i have in there are super bright! ive never seen them this bright in my planted tank. they seem to love the dark water, although they are still skiddish they look awesome.



bratyboy2 said:


> dirrty, i like the tank my only complaint is the angels...i would have gone with the silver angels because the ones you have are not found in the wild...the borellis are nice i love them myself but they are a cooler water apisto so with the cardinals being higher temp...i would say maybe something different maybe agazzi or cockatoos i love the cockatoo orange flash they are so pretty or you could do the "white" ones. just some tips nothing to be mean im setting mine up not that the whether is nice.


 lol only put them in there for fun. i thought they were make the tetras more active but i think theyre just scaring them. i didnt intend to keep them in there. just wanted more action in the tank for the mean time. ive been trying to find cockatoo apistos but i cant find any at LFS. im scared to get them online cause im afraid i wont like them. i picky with my fishes lol



fishman9809 said:


> any filter would work, you just have to crack it up for a while, or add purigen for a short period of time.


 still waiting on the filter. should be getting one by the beginning of next week



It's Me said:


> I love my green neon tetra's. I have found that they are much smaller than the cardinals. Their full size is around an inch. For me it was an easy choice once I saw some in a tank.


 green neons it is! i rarely see them around so the rarity factor made it an easier choice =P

thanks everyone for your comments and help


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## dirrtybirdy

took some better pictures. hope you like. will have fishes in reaaaaalllly soon! =D


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## fishman9809

it looks cleaner, what di dyou do to the water?


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## dirrtybirdy

lol nothing? i think its the position of the lights. i moved the lights towards the back.


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## fishman9809

yeah, thats probably it.


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## Tex Gal

Saw your cardinal tetra post. I'll keep watching. Want to see those cardinal fry!


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## dirrtybirdy

tex girl im going with neon green tetras. lol ill have 2 cardinals in there though =P or maybe they will cross breed and have green neon cardinal tetras. lol


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## joe faria

Hello,
Really good job... and tank :mrgreen:
Thanks for sharing it with us.

Regards,
Joe Faria


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## bratyboy2

well im glad you finally figured out what tetra you are going with...setting my 20 long up tonight...maybe rio ***** or maybe planted peacock cichlid tank we will see.

love the tank pics by the way they look great

sorry i just read your response to the other post on here i left...if you are picky there is a great guy on aquabid hias name is apistodave send him an email he is very well know and the only complaint from a customer was that he didnt get the free java fern...lol jezz that bad im ordering from him this spring...im getting the special called pox-o-pistos 4 pairs for forty bucks plus just speeking to him i can pick the ones i want great guy i would recommend him.


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## kjaer

Looks nice and very biotopic correct (except the pea gravel..?) But i think it would look better with a black background.


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## dirrtybirdy

kjaer said:


> Looks nice and very biotopic correct (except the pea gravel..?) But i think it would look better with a black background.


lol yeah..i was going to go with all sand but the sand didnt hold up the driftwood like the gravel does.

Bratyboy: I saw his auctions on aquabid, i think i will email him later this week. i still dont know what apisto i want lol =P


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## bratyboy2

dirrtybirdy said:


> Bratyboy: I saw his auctions on aquabid, i think i will email him later this week. i still dont know what apisto i want lol =P


im telling you the cockatoos are amazing why not go with rams? or the bolivian rams?

oh i got some cardinals and rummynose tetras today and 5 more rams lol LOVE THEM!!!!!


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## ed seeley

dirrtybirdy said:


> i still dont know what apisto i want lol =P


If you're going with a large shoal of tetras I'd get a pair forming species of Apistos as they will stand a better chance of keeping the tetras away from the fry! A.nijsseni are gorgeous pair forming species, as are the other related panda species and they come from the same waters as the cardinals. Cacatuoides don't come from blackwater areas and your tank is certainly that! Female nijsseni will absolutely glow in there.


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## KRiley

I would vote for a wild type apisto like A. nijsseni. I am ordering a trio of A. nijsseni in a couple of weeks. I have kept the pandas in the past and they are an awesome fish.


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## fishman9809

what about viejita? Are they blackwater? 

Why don't you just provide a list for him to choose from?


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## bratyboy2

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwapisto&1207419029

check these out apistodave has them and they are rio ones loving these ones


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## ed seeley

KRiley said:


> I would vote for a wild type apisto like A. nijsseni. I am ordering a trio of A. nijsseni in a couple of weeks. I have kept the pandas in the past and they are an awesome fish.


Please bear in mind the spare female may well be in for a rough time as all the nijsenni and related species I have kept have formed pairs and then eliminated the competition! At least having a spare female will let the male choose his preferred girl...
They are awesome fish I agree


----------



## bratyboy2

viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita viejita


SORRY THATS JUST MY VOTE LOLound:


----------



## fishman9809

most viejita aren't purebred apistos like in the wild


----------



## KRiley

Thanks for the tip Ed! I was thinking on getting a trio because I read an article in which the auther spawned a trio, I just thought it would be cool. I have kept and bred a pair of A. nijsseni before, but that was a loong time ago. 


I would definately go to some wild type apistos. I tend to like the wild fish better than the tank bred forms. I would go with either Apisto. panduro, Apisto. nijsseni, Apisto sp. Tefe, Apisto. sp. Piexoto, or Apisto. viejita. 

If you want some wild type Apisto. viejita TwoFishGuyz has some F1 Apisto viejita stock. 

Get some apistos in there soon man. I want to see how it looks.


----------



## dirrtybirdy

just spoke to mike from southenapistos.com and going to get 3 cockatoo apistos. purchasing my eheim filter today and hopefully have it set up next weekend. also hope to have the green neon tetras by then as well


----------



## fishman9809

cool, I hope this works out.


----------



## dirrtybirdy

just won my eheim canister filter on ebay!! should have it set up by next week with the 30 green neons! i cant wait!


----------



## dirrtybirdy

grrr the seller that is selling the filter hasnt messaged me back yet! i want it by the end of this weekend! lol


what do you guys think of german blue rams?


----------



## bratyboy2

i love the german rams i have 3 myself and they are so cute and fun to watch


----------



## dirrtybirdy

andre grassi's apisto








i want mine to look like this! that is an amazing specimen!


----------



## bratyboy2

how much you getting those for they are beautiful!?!?!?1


----------



## fishman9809

idk y, but I don't like those colors on the main body, I like th efins though, I like the double red better: Like this one:










but I love the agassizii blue tail:


----------



## bratyboy2

i like the double reds but im loving the triple reds alot too!!!! agazzai are just kinda blah to me anymore.


----------



## dirrtybirdy

andre said he caught that apisto in the river!! i couldnt believe it! lol i wish i had crazy looking fishes in my backyard =O


----------



## fishman9809

I love Blue Rams though, I am getting them for my tank.


----------



## dirrtybirdy

does anyone know what kind of grassy plant that is?

also, I think i will make the water clear just to see how things look when i get the fishes in. In almost all the pictures ive seen of tetras in the wild, the water is clear. what do you guys think?


----------



## bratyboy2

wow that picture is nice!!!! sounds like a good idea with the clear water....i would say that is some emersed grass from the flood season. if your wanting something like that i would go with either a dwarf hair grass or giant form. or both lol. if your not wanting to up grade the lights you might have the go with fake grasses maybe the silk forms. good luck any new pics of the tank or new fishes?


----------



## dirrtybirdy

I added a whole bunch of leaves to cover the bottom. im going to do a water change to clear up the water. The filter should be coming monday and fishes will come the following week. I plan on getting 5 ottos and 30 Green Neons. 

With the clearer water i noticed the tetras i already have in there being more active. they are getting used to me being infront of the tank and actually come out from the back to inspect me. Im also leaning towards putting a few different plants in there.


----------



## dirrtybirdy

I forgot to mention, my friends dad works for a pet supply distributer and his dad said he will let me use his discount! im planning on getting a coralife light fixture and a few eheim filters and selling them on ebay


----------



## dirrtybirdy

Echinodorus angustifolius
















For the rear left corner

Echinodorus tenellus (Dwarf Chain Sword)








In between the driftwod

i rearrange the lay out again lol i will take pictures tonight.


----------



## bratyboy2

sounds like a plan there dirty!!! im going to do a small scape like this in a 10 or 20 long i found some nice pieces of wood out side tonight to use im going to tie them up at one end and get the tank setup i will ask you what you think when i get it reall going....m using the pic up there as a visual!!! you did the layout again!?!?!?! jeez lol jk


----------



## dirrtybirdy

got my 30 green neon tetras yesterday! i have never seen my old tetras be so active before! i love how they all follow each other though the driftwood pieces. I took pictures and videos but i cant upload them right now due to slow wifi connection. will have them up tonight though! 

also getting my eheim filter today. going to have that installed today


----------



## bratyboy2

wow dirrty this is yous loucky day im excited to see these pictures tonight!!!!!!


----------



## dirrtybirdy

Video and better pictures coming soon!


----------



## fishman9809

I see 2 fish.


----------



## dirrtybirdy




----------



## bratyboy2

very nice!!!!!! yah i cant really see the fish so when you clear the water up maybe but i like the new layout alot more its nice


----------



## dirrtybirdy

thanks. yeah the water got a little darker cause i added a few more leaves. i let it soak over night and was hoping all the tannins leaked out. i guess not =P got my eheim filter hooked up and i love it. 

now i gotta to get the plants i mentioned, maybe a light fixture and those damn apistos! lol

i tried to take more pictures but these fishes are always on the go.


----------



## bratyboy2

why dont you next time boil the leaves and keep doing that till he water runs clear. they seem much more colorful then those stupi pictures. yah so does he breed those apisto?


----------



## dirrtybirdy

bratyboy2 said:


> why dont you next time boil the leaves and keep doing that till he water runs clear. they seem much more colorful then those stupi pictures. yah so does he breed those apisto?


Yeah, next time i wil boil the leaves. I need a SLR camera to capture the tank. The pictures dont really do it justice IMO.

With the plants i mentioned a few pages back..i found some on a website but $30 for shipping!?!? 

The filter is working out great! there is less of that slime and sludge.

I need some scavengers to eat up all the bloodworms that the tetras dont eat. any one have any suggestions??

can i get more input/comments/suggestions from people? lol there are over 6,000 views

and thanks to everyone who have posted in this thread. i really appreciate it! you guys have helped me alot throughout the process of this tankrayer:


----------



## bratyboy2

get some panda cories or some aneaus. do you have algae eaters yet? if not i love the farowella


----------



## dirrtybirdy

i have 2 cories, i forgot the name..i think it was acauzul or something. i otto (going to buy 4 more) and waiting for the apistos.


----------



## bratyboy2

i would really build up the cory cat school. it will appear more natural and they will clean alot more


----------



## dirrtybirdy

i have 2 in the tank right now barely even come out. i rarely see thim. i dont know if i want some more. i really want more ottos. i believe the one i have right now in the tank is a female. she is really plumped with eggs. 

i just want my apistos =P


----------



## bratyboy2

well if you get more they will come out more!!! lol duh sorry but its true and boy i want to see the apistos when you get them. is he breeding them? and how much?


----------



## dirrtybirdy

for the apistos im looking for them on www.southernapistos.com and www.aquabid.com


----------



## bratyboy2

oh okay nice


----------



## dirrtybirdy

cant get a good enough picture so i took a video


----------



## bratyboy2

dirrty f-ing amazing its so nice!!!!rayer: you should get more of them!!! i love the tank though i cant wait to see it with the plants in it!!! wow just amazing!


----------



## duzzy

Hi there, 

wonderful looking tank. Love the amazon. The only thing I would change was to lighten the tannins slightly and add some swords for contrast but beautiful never the less.

Regards Darren


----------



## fishman9809

are those wild? Also, how large is your tank, and where did you get the tetras?


----------



## dirrtybirdy

duzzy - Thank you for your comment! The water is almost clear, I believe the light makes it look darker. Im going to get a coralife light fixture next month so hopefully I can take better pictures. As for plants Im going to get Echinodorus tenellus and Echinodorus Angustifolius. I found a picture and posted it a few pages back and i think these plants best simulate the environment.


fishman9809 - I dont know if they are wild or not, but im leaning toward yes. When he first got them he had about 400 of them (im assuming) he told me they are really rare and this is the first time he got them. He said that most of them died during shipping so thats why I think they are from the wild. I got them from this pet store in LA. They also have about 20 Galaxy danios for 5 bucks a piece. I always wanted them but when i saw them upclose they didnt live up to their hype IMHO.

bratyboy2 - lol thanks again for all your comments =P


----------



## fishman9809

yea, many fish that are wild caught come to the US in a poisoned state that is used to catch the fish, unfortunately.


----------



## dirrtybirdy

yeah that sucks. im glad all my fishes are stong and healthy =D

and I just picked up 5 of thess guys
Corydoras isbrueckeri








well im pretty sure they are this. gotta check when i get home


----------



## fishman9809

cool, cant wait until you start planting.


----------



## dirrtybirdy

I hope its a corydoras


----------



## duzzy

Yeah birdy a saw that, I read all the journal last night and thoroughly enjoyed it, I would love to do something similar someday. I was more thinking of something that has a more broad leaf as a plant but thats just personal preference

Regards Darren

P.s. Great journal really enjoyed reading it and great research and patience


----------



## fishman9809

not corydoras I believe, they look like some type of sucker cat, do they grip on? or do they just scurry at the bottom?


----------



## Afyounie

They look like an upside down catfish. The whiskers are too long and fins are too long for it to be a corydora. They are very nice looking though. Where did you get them?


----------



## dirrtybirdy

damn it! they grip on! are they from south america?? please tell me they are! if not they are for sale!


----------



## bratyboy2

dirrty they do indeed look like upside down catfish they are a synodontis for sure!!!! sorry but they are west african i believe. not to what you want so we do have a item for sale lol. time to go back and look over the fish at the petstore. can you return them? oh and your welcome i really enjoy this post alot cant wait to get mine going


----------



## dirrtybirdy

wow so after my alien encounter, I destroyed my scape. I decided that I didn't like the lay out that much. LOL so I respcaped it for the 20th time! I think I like this layout a little better it evens out the tank and gives the fishes more room to swim back and forth. They seem to like it.=D

I just got to mess around with it a little more and find better places for some of the driftwood. I cant wait to get the light fixtures so I can get the plants!

Ill have pictures up tomorrow. Its time for me to get ready to party! Cheers everyone! have a safe and fun friday night


----------



## Sparg93

very nice


----------



## dirrtybirdy

welp, guys...i lost my camera, hopefully misplaced it somewhere. I really want to take pictures of my tank cause it looks totally different. I hope I find my camera soon. Im also thinking about getting 20 more green neon tetras next month. We'll see how everything plays out though. 

Im just really bummed i lost my camera


----------



## bratyboy2

find your camera yet there dirrty?


----------



## dirrtybirdy

yes sir! lol my friend accidentally took it back with him to vegas. he gave it to one of my friends who visited him last weekend. i dont know when im going to take picture cause im getting a new night coralife light fixture, plants, and change the pea gravel to sand. Im also thinking about adding more driftwood. the new layout looks like it can fit more driftwood.

can you guys wait till maybe the 15th of may?? =P


----------



## bratyboy2

15th?!?!?!
are you kidding i have been following this blog forever!!!
i want to see some updates here bud lol:bathbaby:
i would like to see the new layout though before you decide to change it again lol


----------



## KRiley

Did you ever decide on what kind of apistos are going in there?


----------



## dirrtybirdy

im not sure if im going to be getting apistos. although i really want them, i cant come to ordering high priced fish online and not being able to check it out first. im very picky when it comes to fishes in my tank. 

I was dissapointed at first when i got my green neons at first. they didnt really look too impressive compaired to the cardinal tetra. but when they started to get a little bigger they green/bluish color really popped out. its brighter than the cardinal tetras i have in the tank now. im really pleased with them and thinking about picking up 10-20 more. 

im really considering getting blue german rams. but i reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeealllly want a triple red apisto


----------



## bratyboy2

dirrty if you get the rams go to the petstore and look at them really well. the first thing you should ask before you get to ecited is how long they have been there. if they have been there for a week you should be okay just check there breathing.
i just got my boy today so im excited to see if mine breed now.
have you ever thought about the bolivian rams?


----------



## Erirku

That is a synodontis, something? Those little bugger will grow up to 5-6" with long fins. I think it will grow bigger than that!


----------



## dirrtybirdy

Welp, seems like im really going to get the apistos after all. A member here offered to to show me pictures of the actual fishes that ill be getting. he is offering a good price too. So it looks like ill be getting them by the end of this week. 

Im also waiting for another member to answer my PM's so i can order the plants for my tank. I hope he still has them i really want these plants! i cant wait. i think ill be getting the light too this week.

Erirku, these guys are annoying. they look really cool but theyre pretty aggressive. im giving them to a friend.


----------



## dirrtybirdy

Heres a crappy picture of the new layout. I will take better pictures next week. Im getting the plants, sand, light and apistos next week as well. hope you guys like the new layout =P










the new emperor tetras


----------



## dirrtybirdy

oh yeah...what do you guys suggest as a background?


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## bratyboy2

dirrty the tank looks amazing!!!! love the new layout and the addition of the emperor tetras!!! really apealing.
background wise i dont know i kinda like it the way it is...just wall
you could find a background that has the roots and rocks and stuff in it. i think you can get a great one off drs fosters and smith. maybe even a 3d one would be cool.


----------



## arowanaman

I like to use silk or Felt preferably black. I think this would work well for you also for a background.


----------



## bratyboy2

never tought about that idea


----------



## dirrtybirdy

thanks arowanaman. i think i will try that today.


----------



## dirrtybirdy

NEw background. best picture i can take right now.










i really need to get the pea gravel out! hope you like!


----------



## chadly

lookin good! 


About the pea gravel, I'd just dump a huge pile of sand over it. 

Do you have a powerhead in there? If you don't, I recommend trying one, it'll do more to replicate a river.!


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## bratyboy2

lol looking good!!!!


----------



## dirrtybirdy

Im having trouble with the water being cloudy. i dont know if its the corydoras sifting the sand or the water current is just too strong. The water is always cloudy, how do i stop this? i have an eheim canister filter if that helps


----------



## bratyboy2

when did the cories come? lol 
well it is play sand right? if so then this will do it . did you rinse it when you got it?
i didnt with mine and it does that when my shark gets fysty lol but its about all gone since the filter catches it. you could try siphoning just about the sand and catching the dust.


----------



## dirrtybirdy

its not play sand. its sand from a LFS, i forgot the brand. 

cories came in last week.


----------



## bratyboy2

hmm....idk maybe a water change anyway? lol
is there a pic of the ories? what kind are they?


----------



## dirrtybirdy

i think theyre mating right now....theyre are swirling around each other and looks like theyre nibbling on each other as well...strange, i only have had them for no more than 7 days.

edit: they might just be in the courtship stage. this can be bad news....i dont want more fishes in my tank. only 3 apistos! lol


----------



## bratyboy2

my angels bred after just a week and a half. so they damn well could be!!! maybe thats the prop to much juice from the boys


----------



## dirrtybirdy

lol i tried









plants should be coming in this week! cant wait!


----------



## bratyboy2

okay so whats the lights? and what plants again did you plan to get? is the grassy stuff?


----------



## dirrtybirdy

got my plants in! they really changed the scape of the tank! looks awesome!


----------



## bratyboy2

well get us some pictures!!!! im excited now


----------



## fishlover

Nice. So did you change the gravel to sand?
Awaiting some pictures.
What plants did you use, and are they all from the brazilian Amazon? (theyre probably not from the Rio ***** as it is a nutrient-poor river with no plant life, but Swords are great for these types of tanks)


----------



## foofooree

looks good, which picture is the closest to the actual color?


----------



## dirrtybirdy

Here are some teasers till the plants grow in and get healthier

































foofooree these pictures are closer than those in the previous post.

fishlover havent changed the gravel yet, im going to be moving this month so im not sure yet. Plants are Echinodorus Angustifolius
Echinodorus Tenellus (Dwarf Chain Sword)

thanks for all the comments!


----------



## bratyboy2

oh that was so not fair at all!!!!

now i want to geta ticket and come see the damn thing!!! ugh im so mad you did that to me lol but im quite excited to see what comes of it now!!!


----------



## dirrtybirdy

im taking better pictures tonight


----------



## foofooree

wow, that looks great! that wood is truly AMAZING


----------



## bratyboy2

what happen to the leaves?


----------



## MARIMOBALL

Those are my all time favorite fish. I have 25 and willbe getting more soon. Those fish really look at home in that the tank. Awesome job on the biotope.


----------



## dirrtybirdy

so i took off the background. i think it looks waay better than before. also got 3 GBR's


































are any of these females? i got 3 of them


----------



## dirrtybirdy

what do you guys think about my tank. to me it looks like of bland. should i add more plants?

im thinking about adding
Echinodorus 'Rose'
Echinodorus 'Ozelot'
Echinodorus macrophyllus
Echinodorus horemanii ‘Red’

and taking out the sand or maybe mixing it with gravel or something.

i want your input guys!


----------



## bratyboy2

well dirrty i thinks its perfect but i like the mixing idea!! the ram looks like a boy to me though but a very nice add indeed!

i finally got my 10 amazon setup i just have to get some of the none native fish out lol

i like the adding plant idea but i would only add maybe 2 or 3 altogether...good luck and let us know how its going i will get you a pic of my tank very soon i hope


----------



## frozenbarb

I would suggest more leaf too make it look more natural.






Other then that it looks very nice.

Im making one too.


----------



## fishlover

I wouldn't add any other plant.
IMHO, it would make the tank less realistic as a biotope.
I love it just as is.
But of course, if you were able to come up with such a nice scape, i' m sure you know what you're doing so the other version will probably be just as nice.


----------



## dirrtybirdy

thanks guys for the comments! well the plants that are in there right now are not doing so well. I just found out that they get their nutrient from the substrate, so im going to pick up 2-3 bags of ADA amazonia I. hopefully they start growing and looking more healthy.

as for the leaf litter, it really bugs me because i have 4 cories in there and they just lift the sand up onto the leaf and it gets burried. so in about a week the sand covers 75% of the leaf litter. i guess that will all change once i get new substrate =D

how weird, i just watched the video and it looks like i have the same type of algae on my driftwood lol

ill try and take some new pictures this week.


----------



## fishman9809

dude, u have to study, u can buy AS and just put it in with fish!!! the fish will die. i hope you have a spare tank. because with a substrate change, u'll need it........


----------



## dirrtybirdy

whats AS?? Im still new to the planted tank world.

with the substrate change, i was just going to let the new substrate soak in a few buckets. and when i do water changes i will put the fish tank water into the bucket with the substrate.


----------



## redstrat

AS is ADA Aqua Soil


----------



## dirrtybirdy

Guys, I went to vegas last weekend and came back to a cloudy tank. I did a 10% water change on tuesday and a 50% water change yesterday. The water is still cloudy. The fishes are all still healthy and seems like they are not getting phase by it. What can I do to fix this?? Is there any treatment I should get? Please help! TIA


----------



## dirrtybirdy

I bought 2 bags of red sea floura base and took out all the pea gravel but left the sand. Right now im letting the filter circulate the water for a little bit. after the water clears up im going to replant the plants and fix the hardscape. hopefully this will help the plants grow a little more.


does anyone have any experience with red sea floura base? I was going to buy ADA Amazonia but cant fit that into my budget just now. I know its top of the line stuff but 30 bucks for a tiny bag is pretty crazy. maybe one day though =P


----------



## dirrtybirdy

Started out like this...








Then took the pea gravel out and added the substrate. Now its filling time!
















Now the planting...
















Took pictures this morning and the water was still a little cloudy.








I think its the same problem I had prior to the substrate change. Hopefully it clears up when I get home. I'm going to add leaf litter today. Hopefully the cories dont burry it with the new substrate. I doubt they will cause its looks heavier than the sand

C&Cs are always welcomed!!!


----------



## dirrtybirdy

eep: Anyone?


----------



## redstrat

I'm honestly not all that familure with biotope setups but I like the way it looks. Its definately natural looking. Are you planning any background plants?


----------



## dirrtybirdy

Well i was thinking of putting in Potamogeton gayi in the back or in between the drift wood. But we'll see after i put in the leaf litter. But I really want to get some kind of plant that will grow almost to the top of the tank.


----------



## redstrat

well I'm not sure how this suggestion fits with your biotope theme but what about Val. nana, Saggiteria platyphylla...


----------



## dirrtybirdy

Guys, I need help! My water is still coudy! U bought some kent marine product that is suppose to clear up the cloudy water. It has not worked? Im going to go to the pet store today to do a water test to see what the hell is wrong with my water. can anyone else give any suggestions before I go?


----------



## redstrat

do you have any activated carbon in your filter?


----------



## dirrtybirdy

no, but can i put it in a bag and add it into the tank?


----------



## dirrtybirdy

So I got the Potamogenton Gayi and from the looks of it, It looks really nice. Really changes the feel for the tank. Im going to pick up some Purigen tomorrow and will have pictures up as soon as the water gets clear. I hope you guys will like the new look.



Does anyone know how to apply the purigen to the tank? does it go in the filter or in a bag? Im picking up some tomorrow.


----------



## dirrtybirdy

Here is the update with the new plants and I also bought 3 hatchet fish yesterday =P

Let me know what you guys think! Ive never seen the fishes this active and bright. They look as if they are in their natual habitat

When the water clears im going to barrow a DSLR to really capture the the tanks characteristics.


























please leave comments. I would really like to hear what some of you guys think!!

I will have better pictures tonight


----------



## redstrat

Wow I have to say I really like the new addition it seems to add more life to the tank.


----------



## jackh

i like the wood layout. are you gonna add more fish later on?


----------



## dirrtybirdy

Thanks redstrat!



jackh said:


> i like the wood layout. are you gonna add more fish later on?


thanks. I think I have alot of fish in there already, just cant see them. there are about 25 green neon tetras, 2 hatchet fishes, 2 platinum tetra, 1 cardinal tetra, 4 cories and 3 GBR. you just cant see them theyre always swimming around and what not.

My tank is still cloudy!! I dont know what the hell is going on! I tried using some stuff called "p-Clear" which worked for a little while but got cloudy again. I also got some other stuff called chemi-pure elite. The guy at the petstore said it would work like a charm and hasnt work at all.

I was going to get purigen but the pet store didnt have it. I guess im going to have to search for it.

Do you guys thinnk purigen will eliminate the cloudiness?


----------



## Tex Gal

The Purigen is supposed to help. I think it may depend on what's going on with your water. How did your water test out? Do you think it's a bacterial bloom? It kinda looks like it. Do you think it might be GW beginning to form? Do you have a UV filter?

Try a micro/micron filter pad in your filter along with the purigen or the water clarifier. I have had the best luck with those. They will filter out the fine particulate that the clarifiers clump together. 

BTW I also love the new look of your tank. The P. gayi looks like a much bigger version than what I had. I wonder if it's just an optical illusion?


----------



## dirrtybirdy

Well, Just woke up today and its murky green again! god this is a never ending battle! its been two weeks + of white cloudy/green cloudy water. Ive tried everything except purigen. I guess thats my next step =\


----------



## patx

next step UV sterilizer...
it will never comme back again.

great tank by the way.
realy love it!


----------



## dirrtybirdy

jeeeez this tank is costing me a fortune!! lol oh well, i guess its the name of the game!


----------



## ferris89

Great look for the tank! sorry that the water is cloudy, I'm sure it will clear up!!!

subscribing to this to see how it works out!


----------



## FishandTurtleJunkie

Black out for 3 days, small w/c and wait it out. If it is GW try a willow branch or two cut fresh from a willow tree.


----------



## dirrtybirdy

Thanks Jake!

Im going to try and do a black out. DO i have to cover the tank so its completely black?? or just turn off the lights??

The water keeps turning from green to white, kind of weird. Im strapped on money right now to get some purigen.

but as long as my fish are in good health, then I guess water visibility is ok.


----------



## dirrtybirdy

Let me know what you guys think. It finally cleared up!


----------



## dirrtybirdy

No comments? No critics?


----------



## jackh

i like it. looks real natural


----------



## Mark1

I like it a lot, because it has this natural appearance! The only thing which doesn´t look natural, apart from technics is the new substrate! I liked the sand a lot more!

Regards,
Mark.


----------



## patx

WOW!

rayer:


----------



## dirrtybirdy

Mark1 said:


> I like it a lot, because it has this natural appearance! The only thing which doesn´t look natural, apart from technics is the new substrate! I liked the sand a lot more!
> 
> Regards,
> Mark.


I know what you mean! I really like the sand alot but there was no nutrient for the plants. I dont know what im going to do with that. hopefully the tennilus will cover it up lol.

Also I am curious to why you mentioned technic? can you please elaborate?

thanks for the comment patx


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## Mark1

> I know what you mean! I really like the sand alot but there was no nutrient for the plants. I dont know what im going to do with that. hopefully the tennilus will cover it up lol.


You could have used balls made from clay under the sand which you richened up with nutrients, or even you could have dosed nutrients through the water...



> Also I am curious to why you mentioned technic? can you please elaborate?


All I wanted to say with a twinkle on my eye  is that the technic like filter inflow etc. doesn´t share that natural look, that your layout has.

Regards,
Mark.


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## dirrtybirdy

anyone know what kind of algae this is? and how to get rid of it


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## patx

arffff, on the plant and the ground, it look like cyano to me.
+ some filamenteous algae. :neutral:


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## dirrtybirdy

yes, i think it is. 

i already gathered information to cure it. im going to black out for a day or two to weaken the algae and then treat it.


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## dirrtybirdy

guys this algae is not going away!!

i did a 4 day black out and it still hasnt gone away! i dont want to do another black out cause my plants and fishes took a beating. some fish died/disappeared and my PG is weak and dying!

i still havent gotten around to buying a tester kit. the money has been really tight. can you guys help me out?

im dosing seachem potassium, trace, excel, iron and prime all according to the directions. 

i need help. my PG is falling apart and turning into mush!


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## dirrtybirdy

im also doing bi weekly water changes. about 30% each time.


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## patx

:-|

well, sometime, injecting peroxyde (spot treatment) on it will kill it.. (not always, but...give a try)

turn off filter and power head beafore. (stop water mouvement) :slywink:

lets say, 4drop by 10gallons max day dose.

other way.

try searching whit "Tetracycline".
some have godd result whit that Anti-bacterial medication.


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## dawntwister

sometime, injecting peroxyde (spot treatment) on it will kill it.. (not always, but...give a try)

Flourish excel works a lot better. If you can't find it in a pet store look at EBay.

Is this what you have?
Blue-Green Algae: This is actually Cyanobacteria. Is a green shiny slimey algae. It's got a nasty smell to it. It tends to grow in sheets. It is a bizarre combination of bacteria and algae. At this site more info on how to get rid of it and other algae. 
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_algae.htm


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## mcsinny99

I used to get that stuff when I used discus buffer. Are you adding phosphates somehow?


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## patx

> Flourish excel


cool !

but "on plant" excel kill the plant to... (i test it on, cripto, eleocharis and marsilea)


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## dirrtybirdy

mcsinny99 said:


> I used to get that stuff when I used discus buffer. Are you adding phosphates somehow?


No. Should I get some? monies been tight, this market is horrible


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## dawntwister

No you don't want to add phosphates. You want phospates to be very low. Phosphates are in fish food and in tap water. Many areas have tap water that is treated with phosphates. Excess of phosphates is a cause of many algae types but not all. Some are due to bacteria. Thus you have to be very certain what algae you are dealing with to treat it right.

Most people correct the phosphate imbalance by adding Potassium nitrate, KNO3. If the flourish excel doesn't get rid of the algae order it at http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/ferts.html. It cost $7.5 for a lb, including shipping, in the USA.


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## dirrtybirdy

dawntwister _ thanks for the site! Im going to order some this week. Ive been to 4 pet stores and none of them had anything KNO3. I will try and get some this week and keep you guys updated!


I also have these big red/orange snails that came out of nowhere. anyone have any suggestions? can take an iphone picture tomorrow.


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## dawntwister

patx said:


> cool !
> 
> but "on plant" excel kill the plant to... (i test it on, cripto, eleocharis and marsilea)


Some plants are sensitive to excel. At plantgeek.net found that vals are sensitive to excel.

Your pictures are missing. You probably deleted them a photo bucket.

Your snails may be apple snails. They may mess your plants up crawling on them. I haven't any problems with them. I buy them to help with the algae and they are niffty to watch floating down from the top. The fact that they appeared probably means you have a good amount of calcium. I had that happen with some pond snails I put in my tank.


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## dirrtybirdy

just planted some Lilaeopsis brasiliensis that i had in my other tank that im tearing down. hopefully it grows and carpets the tank.


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## dirrtybirdy

anyone know what this snail is?








theyre going crazy in my tank and came out of no where.


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## davemonkey

Those are the snails I have most of in my tank. They are Ramshorn, as far as I know. They never bother my plants like pond snails do.

But I also had a very much smaller snail for awhile with a similar shape, but they laid flat and never got larger than 1/4 inch. Perhaps just another type of ramshorn? 

And since we're talking about snails, I have some trumpet snails, but they, too, never get larger than 1/4 inch. I've heard about MTS getting much larger than that. Hmmmmm.

By the way, your aquascape is absolutely beautiful!

-Dave


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## foofooree

Those ramshorn snails are beautiful! They have great orange coloring!


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## dirrtybirdy

thanks for the quick replies!

So i just read that they are from SA so they will be staying in my tank lol. theyre multiplying like crazy! i saw the first one a month ago and now have about 20 or so munching up all the algae. they poo like crazy so i clean up every 2-3 days. every day i see another egg patch on the glass, driftwood or plants. pretty interesting snails IMO


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## dirrtybirdy

broke my camera a few months ago. pictures taken with my iphone.

what do you guys think?


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## dirrtybirdy

anyone?

C&C?


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## BryceM

I like it!!! The orange highlights give some character to what would otherwise be a tangled mess. Nice foreground too.


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## ferris89

I really like the sloping feel to it, very calm and relaxed, it's amazing that you can get such great quality photos from the phone camera


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## krisha

dirrtybirdy said:


> Let me know what you guys think. It finally cleared up!


wauw - what a great looking tank.


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## dirrtybirdy

Well guys I got a new Canon 30D for christmas and i'm a total n00b to slr photography but i think im getting used to it. Here are a couple shots of my tank.








































This sunday or monday, im going to tear down the tank and make a different set up.

also, can anyone tell how to get rid of thread


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## gravy9

Very nice, db. Just saw this thread.

Can you please share the tank specs? Also, what is the pH of the tank and are you adding peat?


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## DonaldmBoyer

Unique biotope set up, DB! Rio ***** 'tope are usually that bright and "cheery"  I really like your spin on it!

What do plan on doing for your next scape? Are you sticking with the Rio ***** biotope "format," or trying something new altogether?


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## ferris89

I love the new pics, hair algae is kinda one of those where ya gotta manually pick it off, had it completely ravage my tank :-/

but anywho, the tank is looking fantastico!!


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## dirrtybirdy

gravy9 said:


> Very nice, db. Just saw this thread.
> 
> Can you please share the tank specs? Also, what is the pH of the tank and are you adding peat?


Right now I am adding Seachem's Flourish, Prime, Excel and Trace. I dont have a test kit so I couldnt tell you the water parameters. I came up on some money and will buy one soon.



DonaldmBoyer said:


> Unique biotope set up, DB! Rio ***** 'tope are usually that bright and "cheery"  I really like your spin on it!
> 
> What do plan on doing for your next scape? Are you sticking with the Rio ***** biotope "format," or trying something new altogether?


I kinda want to go back to something like this








But with the same plants and fish

Or maybe even this set up
















With a mound of sand on the left side running down to the right. have the PG on the left intertwining with the driftwood and the E. ten on the right side some what like a grassy area.



ferris89 said:


> I love the new pics, hair algae is kinda one of those where ya gotta manually pick it off, had it completely ravage my tank :-/
> 
> but anywho, the tank is looking fantastico!!


Well I guess its a good thing im breaking down this tank:faint:

Thanks for the comments everyone! hope you guys like me tank


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## ferris89

for visual sake, I like the first picture, for a "natural" look I would choose the 3rd picture, which I like as well.
It all depends on what you want from your set up


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## Dennis Quaresma

Man, i just loved this Hardscape, still looking at it! 

Some little plecos and some other fishes that enjoy driftwood would do great in this tank.


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## dirrtybirdy

I have ottos in there lol. theyre nice and plump!


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