# [Wet Thumb Forum]-55 Gal "Semi-Live" Planted Tank



## Navajo (Aug 23, 2004)

Hello all,

My first time posting here, so please be patient.

I have been keeping Fresh and Brackish tanks along with a Koi pond for the past 3 years or so with pretty good success. 

BUT I am having an ongoing problem with my 55 GAL. I have been struggling with trying to get plants to grow. Have tried everything from fertilizer tabs and liquid (the algae LOVED this stuff!) to "sort-of" upgrading my 
lights to 80 W N.O. fluorescent (DIY Hood), to CO2 injection, to pulling out all plants and potting them in soil/sand/gravel. And still the plants I try will hang on for a few months then get brittle and eventually beard algae 
will set in and I will pull them out...Anyhow, you get the picture. 

It is 55 GAL (48X13X20), Canister Filter (cleaned bi-weekly), Pea Gravel Bottom 
(vacuumed weekly with 20% water change), 80 W N.O. Fluorescent Vita-light (?). Ammonia - 0, Nitrite- 0, Nitrate - ~15, PH >7.8, Phospahtes Off the scale! Inmates: 3 Clown Loaches (5"), 2 Black Kuhli Loaches (3"), 1 Black Ghost Knife (10"), 1 Fire Eel (6"). Yes, plan on moving Fire eel to a bigger tank within the next year or so. Pretty sure I am underfeeding the tank. Cut back from 2X a day to 1X a 
day, then cut that in half again to keep up with the algae. (Fish are still sleek/full bodied and healthy though) 

Now, on to the question: Planning on keeping Swords, Red Rubin (Echinodorus rubin), and Ludwigia (Ludwigia repens) Will holod off on the cool "ground cover"/aquascaping until I can keep something alive!

I have a Dual Power Compact hood with 130 W 6700K due in this week and have potted all the plants using Laterite with gravel on top to keep the Loaches out. Am also planning on giving the DIY CO2 another try once I get the lights on.

Anyone see anything else I am missing? Am just getting tired of having the 1 tank that will not cooperate.

Sorry for rambling and thanks for your time/input.


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## Navajo (Aug 23, 2004)

Hello all,

My first time posting here, so please be patient.

I have been keeping Fresh and Brackish tanks along with a Koi pond for the past 3 years or so with pretty good success. 

BUT I am having an ongoing problem with my 55 GAL. I have been struggling with trying to get plants to grow. Have tried everything from fertilizer tabs and liquid (the algae LOVED this stuff!) to "sort-of" upgrading my 
lights to 80 W N.O. fluorescent (DIY Hood), to CO2 injection, to pulling out all plants and potting them in soil/sand/gravel. And still the plants I try will hang on for a few months then get brittle and eventually beard algae 
will set in and I will pull them out...Anyhow, you get the picture. 

It is 55 GAL (48X13X20), Canister Filter (cleaned bi-weekly), Pea Gravel Bottom 
(vacuumed weekly with 20% water change), 80 W N.O. Fluorescent Vita-light (?). Ammonia - 0, Nitrite- 0, Nitrate - ~15, PH >7.8, Phospahtes Off the scale! Inmates: 3 Clown Loaches (5"), 2 Black Kuhli Loaches (3"), 1 Black Ghost Knife (10"), 1 Fire Eel (6"). Yes, plan on moving Fire eel to a bigger tank within the next year or so. Pretty sure I am underfeeding the tank. Cut back from 2X a day to 1X a 
day, then cut that in half again to keep up with the algae. (Fish are still sleek/full bodied and healthy though) 

Now, on to the question: Planning on keeping Swords, Red Rubin (Echinodorus rubin), and Ludwigia (Ludwigia repens) Will holod off on the cool "ground cover"/aquascaping until I can keep something alive!

I have a Dual Power Compact hood with 130 W 6700K due in this week and have potted all the plants using Laterite with gravel on top to keep the Loaches out. Am also planning on giving the DIY CO2 another try once I get the lights on.

Anyone see anything else I am missing? Am just getting tired of having the 1 tank that will not cooperate.

Sorry for rambling and thanks for your time/input.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

First of all the the new PC lighting will help a great deal, the light you had before was your main reason your plants where dying.

Your algae outbreak is because you where dosing ferts when your plants where dying, the plants did not use the ferts and the algae did. 

Stop dosing all ferts at this time and wait 4 weeks before starting back. Get your new light set up along with the C02 and let your plants get rooted. 

You also need to get your phosphates under control, high P04 will also cause algae. You can use some Phos-guard in your filter intil you get your P04 down to a good level. You want to keep a 10:1 ratio of N03/P04.


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

trenac said it all. With that much light on 55gal you might need to use two bottles of DIY CO2. I did on my first tank, a 55gal set up just like yours. I used plan gravel for my substrate thou. Defiantly get those PO4 levels down before you add more light. Do you know why your PO4 levels are so high? Do you over feed? 

Hawk


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## Tao Chinsa (Aug 22, 2004)

sounds like you should get rid of that pea gravel and get some new substrate....like flourite or something

Have fun


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

You definately need more CO2 or more efficient CO2. At a pH of over 7.8 you do not have enough CO2 in the water (unless your KH is up around 45!).

That much lighting with this little CO2 is going to pose lots of problems. And if budget allows I would strongly recommend a pressurized CO2 system for a tank of this size.


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## Navajo (Aug 23, 2004)

HEY GUYS! Thanks for the responses and suggestions.

As to the high phosphates, I'm not sure where they are coming from. Tested the water from the tap (well water) and it is undetectible. I don't think I am overfeeding since for the past few months I have cut the feedings to once a day and they eat everything within 2- 3 minutes. I also vacuum the gravel every Saturday night during the 20% or so water change. I was wondering if it is the gravel possibly? It is that coated junk from Petsmart (got it when I first set up the tank and didn't know better). Is there any way it can be breaking down and polluting? If not, maybe it is just too coarse and the food is settling between it where the fish can't get to it.

I have heard/read about the Phos-Guard and Polyfilters, honestly haven't looked into them yet. But probably should at least until I get everything under control.

I stopped dosing anything a few months ago. It DEFINATELY helps with the algae control. I just can't figure it out.

Hawkeye, do you really think I will need 2 2L bottles for CO2? Last time I tried it, I just used one and it brought the PH down to the mid 6's and lost 1 twig catfish and the peacock eel that I had in there at the time just layed draped over the filter intake looking like he was asleep/dead. As soon as I took out the CO2 bottle he perked up the next couple of days and returned to normal. I'm so confused...(nothing new! HA) But then again, all I had in at the time was 2 swords and I think they were already past helping. Could it have just been too much CO2 with nothing taking it up and anesthetising the fish?

Anyhow, I am going to take all your excellent advice and try it again. Monitor it a little closer this time and see what happens. If anyone has any other suggestions/input, I'm all ears!

Thanks and have a wonderful day!


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

Navajo you shouldn't use any CO2 until you have a tank full of plants that will use it. Other wise you will get a build up on CO2. That sounds like what your problem was before. If you can't get in to a pressure system you should be able to use two bottles of DIY CO2 but its a pain. What you want to do is refill one one week and then refill the other the next. That way you can maintain a constant CO2 level. What do you use to defuse the CO2 in your tank?

This is what I would do with your tank. Its all most identical to what I started out as my first plant tank. I would get rid of the pea gravel. If you want to grow sword plants I would get some Eco-Complete as my substrate. Swords grow very well in it with out having to add root tabs. In my 55gal I had a Rubin grow leaves over 24inches.

Why do you clean your canister filter bi-weekly? All my canister filter are luck if they get cleaned every three months. OH and don't use any active charcoal in them. Charcoal will strip your fert out of the water.

I wouldn't use any Pho-Guard or any thing else. You need to find the source of the PO4 and fix it or its going to be an on going problem. It could be just a build up from add ferts and feeding with your plant not using it up. Do a major water change when you change your substrate. 

You are going to fine that increasing your light is going to make a world of difference in your plant growth. When you first get the new light set up start off with one bottle of DIY CO2. Then add the second the next week. You need to get some fast growing stem plants to start off with. That will help keep the algae away while you get the tank back into balance. 

So add your lights, add more fast growing stem plants. After you change out your substrate. Test PH, KH, NO3, and PO4 and work on getting them in the right balance.
All this will make fast growing, healthy plants which will keep the algae away. 

Sounds easy hum!! LOL But its not really that hard if you take it slow. Don't hesitate to ask question. We will be glad to help you along the way.

Hawk


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## Navajo (Aug 23, 2004)

Hawkeye, I have been cleaning my filters so often because I figured it was MAYBE where the high phosphates were coming from...rotting food/waste? Just grasping, I guess. I have now decided to slow down, quit floundering, and try to get some help and do it right.

As far as the Eco-Complete, for the size tank I have, how many 20# bags do you think? Was thinking about 5.

I got the new lights tonight (BOY! ARE THEY GREEN!) Put them on, have 1 2L CO2 bottle ready to go and I currently have 2 "Amazon" Swords, numerous Ludwigia, couple of Bocopa, 1 Rubin Sword, and 1 Melon Sword in there just purchased so they are still healthy (looking at least!) Do you think I am ready?

Also, was putting the CO2 straight into the cannister filter intake to let it chop the bubbles. Makes the impeller rattle, but seems to work. Think a "bell" would be better?

Anyhow, thanks for the great suggestions and I will try to follow them to the "t" and get things rolling along.

Once again, THANKS!


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

6700K bulbs do look green I think. 

Five bags of Eco-Complete might be ok but with swords you need at lest 4 inches of substrate. It come two bags/case so get three cases. Ask your LFS guy if he will give you a break on the price if you order them. I got a great deal on mine when I ordered 8 cases.

When I had my 55gal and used DIY CO2 I used ceramic air stones as a diffuser. Now on my smaller tanks I still use DIY CO2 but I use a glass diffuser that has a ceramic stone in it. Their are some people that did run there CO2 into their filter instead of a reactor with out problems but I was all way afraid of a vapor lock that could kill your filter.

When your swords tank off their going to take over that 55gal!! HEHEH

Hawk


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## Navajo (Aug 23, 2004)

Hey Hawkeye, thanks again for the info.

I put in the Lights, 1 CO2 DIY bottle, and some laterite 2 nights ago. I HAD PEARLING LAST NIGHT!!! YAYYYYYY! (yes I'm sure it was pearling cause there was a steady stream from 1 broken leaf and millions of bubbles on the leaves that were not there the next morning before lights came back on).

Also am definately thinking of doing something besides feeding CO2 straight to the filter. Rattling gets pretty annoying!

Have 1 more question though, if you have time. I am getting 32 BPM from the CO2 bottle! Seems a BIT high to me. I used 2 cups sugar, 1/4 teaspoon yeast, and 1/4 teaspoon baking soda. Do i regulate the BPM through "monkeying" with the amount of yeast?

Thanks!

Also am gonna definately switch to Eco-Complete as soon as I can get the $$$ together.

Want some swords? HA!


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

Re the BPM, I would first find out what your CO2 level is at. Measure your KH and pH and then find your CO2 level using a chart such as this:

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

The bubble rate just determines how *quickly* you will be changing your pH (faster bubble rate=faste change in pH). With DIY, you need to find the bubble rate with which you manage to keep your pH within the desired range for the CO2 level you want, plus or minus lets say 0.1 or 0.2 pH over a 24 cycle (lights on and off).


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

Yes you do control the amount of BPM count by the amount of yeast you use. Laith is right you really need to know what your CO2 levels are then you can add or use less. The Sugar determines how long it last. DIY CO2 is really hard to maintain a constant level of CO2 and a stable PH. That's why it helps when you use two bottle in a large tank like a 55gal. Sounds like your on your way. 

Hawk


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## Navajo (Aug 23, 2004)

Hey Laith, good suggestion. I, of course, lost the card to my KH test so had to buy another one... My PH is 7.0, KH is 5. So according to the chart it is a CO2 level of 15 which is in the GOOD range. Guess I should quit worring so much and just enjoy, huh?

Thanks for the info and the link.


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