# A barrage of questions...here goes!



## Rynofasho (Feb 17, 2011)

Hello all,

This is post #2 after trolling for some time here and introducing myself in post #1, so here goes. It is going to be fairly long and detailed as I tend to suffer from diarrhea of the mouth (fingers in this case), however I feel it is best to give you too much information rather than too little.

I have a relatively new 36 US gallon freshwater tank. I've never kept fish, and in October, on a whim, my wife really wanted a fish tank. I myself am the type of person who spends countless hours researching things like this on the web before I jump in with both feet, however I was powerless against her (newlywed syndrome perhaps?). So, learned about cycling, yada, got fish after cycling, some live plants at Petsmart (most of which I found weren't even aquatic plants) and went to town planting in my gravel substrate. Stock lighting, no ferts, obviously no CO2 as I was initially concerned with learning to keep fish alive, not plants.

Only my Anubias nana v. nana ended up surviving the initial go around, and towards the end of the days of gravel, I upgraded to a dual 18W T5 Coralife light to get me at 1wpg. My anubias immediately perked and had grown two new leaves within two weeks. I then had a problem with nitrates, subsequently Ich, and realized that my 3" of gravel was impossible to keep clean even though I gravel vac'd thoroughly on a weekly basis.

Wanted to go planted at that point too, did some plant research (found good info here), picked my stock of plants, participated in the play sand vs. PFS search to no end, bought some Anubias nana v barteri, narrow leaf java ferns, Vallisneria Spiralis, hydrocotyle leucocephala, and brown crypts. I ended up choosing play sand with no layer of anything under (oops).

Last weekend was the moment of truth where I swapped the gravel for sand, rinsed out the muck from the tank bottom, plopped in my sand that I washed for decades (or so it seems when you are doing it outside in 45 degree weather), tied my rhizome plants on to driftwood, planted my Valls, Crypts, and Pennywort (with Flourish tabs under), started dosing Flourish and Excel, and waited for my plants to soar! (ok well grow slowly but surely considering my lighting)

Much to my dismay, I wasn't trimming off clippings and selling them on ebay by Tuesday, and in fact, everything looked to be suffering a fast and painful death. Even my anubias that was rooted in the gravel previously and was thriving under the new T5 started to get some holes in the leaves, so I knew I was seriously screwing something up. Came to learn about that whole mAcronutrient thing that is apparently pretty important, however I arrived a bit late to the game and my plants now are all begging for mercy. So now, on with the questions I suppose after I've revealed my soul:

1) I used play sand, about 1.25" in front, sloping to around 2" in the back, with no other type of substrate to add nutrients or minerals. As my wife would more than likely punch me in the face if I told her I wanted to change it out again, is there anything I can do without a total overhaul? I have down root tabs, however I know those aren't going to provide the necessary macronutrients. I repeat that a complete overhaul 1 week later is not an option, as I rather enjoy being married.

2) I ordered dry ferts and plan on using the PPS-Pro method because of my low lighting and I can't do 50% water changes because of the shock in pH change (out of tap at 10ish, settles around 8.2 in the tank). I'm making a solution with KNO3, K2SO4, and KH2PO4 as per this link. My question is can the root plants absorb enough of the macronutrients through the water column and the minimal penetration the ferts will be getting through the play sand? AKA will dosing these macronutrients keep my Crypts and Valls alive, even if a lot of the solution is not penetrating the roots?

3) When using play sand and having rooted plants as such, would it be alright to let a lot of the fish poo that accumulates on the sand RIGHT next to them just stay there and not vacuum it? I figure this is the plants best chance to get nutrients to the root if there can be any sort of exchange, but it isnt exactly a theory backed by science. As silly as it sounds, maybe move the sand around a bit right around the roots so some of the mulm can penetrate the sand?

I realize this is more than likely the longest recorded post in forum history, so I'll leave it at this and promise to not be as wordy. Soon. . .


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

you can get root tabs with macros. i would continue to use them under your root feeders even if you are dosing the water column.


alot of people let mulm accumulate, some vaccuum it out religiously. in my 125 i try to keep it to a minimum just because its in the living room. but other tanks that are not out in the open have accumulated quite a bit.


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## ddavila06 (Jan 31, 2009)

i would change it. brive the wife, it works!! the reason why i would prefer to change it is that with inert sand you will have to get on a rutine of dosing and caring and honestly, for me thats too much work! i want to relax and enjoy my tank and avoid extra work as much as possible.


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## Rynofasho (Feb 17, 2011)

Since I dont plan on rescaping often, you think I can just take all the accessories out and move sand to the sides of the tank and throw some sort of plant substrate down and cover it back up? I'm only using root feeders in certain areas of the tank, so I guess it would be possible.


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

Rynofasho said:


> Since I dont plan on rescaping often, you think I can just take all the accessories out and move sand to the sides of the tank and throw some sort of plant substrate down and cover it back up? I'm only using root feeders in certain areas of the tank, so I guess it would be possible.


have you looked into the el natural method or MTS? those will be your best bet IMO. but that would require a tear down.


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## Rynofasho (Feb 17, 2011)

Ughhhhhhhh --- heard of Walstad, read about MTC, but was really hoping I could get away with just moving sand to the sides and throwing down a layer of ecocomplete or something where the root feeders will sit.

I'm not disagreeing with the fact that you're right and a tear down would best serve me, but do you think that my idea would work (at least well enough for a couple of Crypts and a row of Valls)?


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

Rynofasho said:


> Ughhhhhhhh --- heard of Walstad, read about MTC, but was really hoping I could get away with just moving sand to the sides and throwing down a layer of ecocomplete or something where the root feeders will sit.
> 
> I'm not disagreeing with the fact that you're right and a tear down would best serve me, but do you think that my idea would work (at least well enough for a couple of Crypts and a row of Valls)?


im sure your idea would work. but with eco complete you will probably still need root tabs.


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## Rynofasho (Feb 17, 2011)

Alright --- I'm imagining that cleaning out all this sand would be a monster PITA, but I see that you did something similar in a 125G, so I can't moan too much.

I think I may have to let it ride for a little while before I get the ole lady to cozy up to the idea. She wanted to pretty little tank for a few fish to enjoy, and now I'm completely obsessed so she isn't quite as fond anymore 

In the event that I don't lift the substrate again shortly, can you recommend any good mAcronutrient root tabs? I have the Flourish tabs and they have next to none. I saw that API ones have 3% nitrogen which is _better_ than the Flourish, however still not thrilling. I saw some DIY recipes, however there was no analysis to show what the macronutrient content was.


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## ddavila06 (Jan 31, 2009)

i mix substrates and have little need for root tabs or additives. my favorites are flourite black and eco. since you want to keep the sand (what color is it?) you can do the "beach" effect with plant substrate in the back, ticker amount etc and towards the front using just the sand where no plant should grow..=D what ya' think? if you can get your hands on amazonia, that one lowers the ph and hardness BTW..


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## Rynofasho (Feb 17, 2011)

For now I'm just riding it out. I finally got my hands on some dry ferts and mixed my own macrosolution. Everything seems to be righting itself now except the Valls and Pennywort which were too far gone already. My crypts were melted down almost flat to the substrate and both are coming back, and my other plants are perking back up. My Java Ferns still have a lot of brown spots though and I'm not sure how to care for that plant. Need to read up on how to trim.


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## Enrique (Feb 3, 2011)

Dude I enjoyed reading your Post, it was very entertaining. Hope you were able to work both things out with your wife and the tank.


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## fishtechy (Mar 9, 2011)

So, now that its been a little while, how are the plants doing? Im trying to start up a smaller planted fish tank so im reading up on as many of this type of post as possible.


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