# Scheming



## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

I'm thinking about trying to turn my 55 gallon cichlid tank into a NPT. It's currently hooked to my plant filter/trickle tower.

What I'm thinking about is using a combination of sand and potted plants. More specifically, I'm considering running a line of these planted baskets along the back of the tank and adding an amazon sword at one end and some sunset hygro at the other end. Then use sand and holey rock in the middle/front of the tank. Do you think that's enough plant mass and soil?


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

Bump

The tank has azurius, yellow labs and red top zebras. Here's how it looks currently.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Betty I'm definately no expert in this field, and I'll let others chime in. But I have to say your tank looks amazing! I've never seen a planted tank with a "live rock", coral wall type appearance. It simply looks like a saltwater type setup, but really a freshwater tank. Well done!

I'll add that I also think you should run with your amazon sword and hydro sunset at each end idea. Though an sword might need some room to spread.

-John N.


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## goldielovr (Apr 12, 2006)

Hey Betty? Been looking at your plant filters and thinking . . . I seem to recall the woman who sort of co-ran the Pure Gold list had something like that on their outdoor goldie pond...I remember at the time thinking how wonderful and amazing that plants could do that and that I wish I understood as much as those two did about how to do that sort of thing--I know now the plants already know all they need to know, I just need to turn 'em loose and let them do their thing! Well...

That person's filter was a lo-ong box full of pothos and other plants similar to yours (she llived somewhere warm. Ga. or Fla. or somewhere.) I was thinking of taking your idea and turning it into somthing visually more attractive:

What if you went to your local glass cutters and had an 'aquarium' cut that was only about 8 inches high, but as long as your longest aquarium, and plumbed at each end to accomodate whatever piping and pumps you need. Wouldn't that be about the right height to place your plant filter above the aquarium like an aquatic window box, and be more visually attractive? Then you could elect to fit it up with the net or not, plant whatever plants you wanted in it and yet have it be more attractive than a tupperware tub with a gooseneck thingy over it? You could build any sort of wood or metal support behind it you liked--or I guess it could even be right *over* the aquarium if you were worried about a pump out!--and it could have its own bank of lights or share the aquariums' lights.

Does that sound nice? Do-able?

Melis


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

Thanks John. That's mostly texas holey rock (limestone). You're right on the amazon sword. The one in my 125 NPT takes up a LOT of space. Perhaps I should go with a kleiner bar or a barthii.

Hi Melis: Yea, that should work.  or one of those plastic window boxes. Wouldn't add much water volume to the tank tho.


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## goldielovr (Apr 12, 2006)

DataGuru said:


> Hi Melis: Yea, that should work.  or one of those plastic window boxes. Wouldn't add much water volume to the tank tho.


and is adding more volume part of the reason for having one of these?


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

I figure that the same amount of fish in more water dilutes nitrAtes.


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

Back on topic... In the cichlid tank, the planted basket idea would result in soil in less than half the tank. Rocks and sand in the rest of the tank. I'm worried that wouldn't be enough soil, especially given the fish load. But given that cichlids dig, I can't see adding soil to the entire tank.


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## Miss Fishy (May 13, 2006)

Lovely tank, Betty! Often I don't like the look of cichlid tanks but yours is beautiful. 

So, you are thinking of removing the plant filter and trickle tower, and just using potted plants in the tank to filter the water, right? If you think the amount of soil and plants in the pots may not provide enough filtration, why not just get rid of the trickle filter and keep the plant filter? Also, how deep do the cichlids dig? If you had a two inch layer of gravel over the top of the soil, would they still be able to get to the soil and stir it up? 

From Alex.


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

I redid the cichlid tank yesterday.
Ran a row of the baskets along the back of the tank. They're 10" long by 2.5" wide with around an inch of soil covered by gravel covered by rocks. one has sunset hygro, two have sag subulata and one has jungle vals. There's also a 6"x6" corner basket with a decent sized amazon sword in it with around 2" of soil, then craft mesh, then gravel and rocks on top. and another potted amazon sword at the other end. The tank has 576 square inches of bottom space and I'm estimating the soil only covers about 25% of that. So you're probably right that it isn't enough to handle the fish load. 

In front of that are the holey rocks sitting on egg crate. I added play sand in front.

The trickle tower/plant filter is still hooked up and I'm mulling over the best way to set it up to be able to lose the trickle tower.

When I pulled the corner pot to replant it (It had sag subulata in kitty litter planted thru craft mesh to keep the goldies out), the cichlids had removed ALL the gravel from on top of the craft mesh and it was at least an inch thick. So I'm not optimistic that any reasonably sized layer of gravel would keep them from excavating up the soil.


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

Got some pics. 










Left side









Middle









Right side









The plant filter/trickle tower still looks pretty much the same as before. I need to figure out what I'm going to do with it to be able to lose the trickle tower and make it a full fledged natural planted tank.


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

Now, I need to figure out what to do with the plant filter to make this a totally natural planted tank.

Right now, it has peace lillies growing in it with just their roots in the water.









The plumbing is such that the water level has to be at the level of the back drain that's connected to the main tank with pvc. That drains water back to the tank via gravity. The pump is sitting in the plant filter and is connected to the black flexible tubing in front to the main tank where there's a strainer and foam prefilter.










If I lose the trickle tower...
and add a 1 inch layer of soil topped by gravel...

Do you think the peace lillies would make the transition to being planted in the substrate?

or should I figure out some way to suspend them and go with rooted aquatic plants?


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## TAM (Aug 21, 2005)

Betty, I don't have any answers to your questions, but am always fascinated by your posts and ideas. AND I like the step by step instructions you post. It really helps me understand the concepts and processes for a NPT.

thanks,
TAM


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

Thanks. 

I did the deed today. Moved the trickle tower out to the pond and converted the plant filter into a NPT. an inch of so of topsoil amended with crushed oyster shell covered by an inch of pool filter media. Planted a couple of swords (an amazon and a kleiner bar), some giant hair grass, sag subulata, and jungle vals. I have water lettuce, duckweed, and najas grass floating. Planted a couple of the peace lillies to see how they'll do. They were tall enough that the leaves are still emergent. They had like 3 foot roots on them. Suspended the rest of the peace lillies where just the roots are in the water. So we'll see how they do.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

DataGuru said:


> Right now, it has peace lillies growing in it with just their roots in the water.
> 
> Do you think the peace lillies would make the transition to being planted in the substrate?QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Minipol (Jul 4, 2006)

You read about how cichlids for instance Malawi shouldn't be kept in a planted tank to be true to the biotope but this looks very good IMHO.
It looks really nice and interesting to watch !

I'm planning a malawi and this is really a great example of what can be done to make rocks in an aquarium more interesting


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

Got some new pics last nite. Haven't tested the water, but it must be happy. There are three generations of lab fry in the tank now! The smallest ones are down in the java fern. There are also a couple of azureus fry as well.


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## Minipol (Jul 4, 2006)

the tank looks super ! very nice :supz:


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Betty,

Love your cichlid tank! African cichlids are great fish... much more interesting than Tetras. This tank is a beautiful showcase for them. 

Diana


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

Here's a video I took today.


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

Wow, Betty - it looks great!

I've never been a huge cichlid fan, probably because they'd exclude the keeping of plants. But boy, do you defy that notion, LOL! What do the HUGE roots hanging down belong to? I have kept Bolivian rams, and they were OK with most plants, but your guys look stunning in their setup!

Great photos!
-Jane


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## Satirica (Feb 13, 2005)

Jane, shell dwelling cichlids can give you the best of both worlds. They don't mess with plants at all and have all the personality of their more troublesome relatives. If you live in an area with softer, more acidic water then apistos are also great in planted tanks, as are kribs.

I love cichlids!


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

That's water lettuce. It grows like crazy in that tank.

The tank nearly went south recently. There were like a hundred fry and juvenile labs in the tank. The intake strainer for the pump to the plant filter got mostly stopped up. there's definitely not enough plant mass/soil in the actual tank to handle the fish load. We ended up pulling out most of the little ones and holey rock and vacuumed up a bunch of mulm. Some of the plants potted in baskets were doing good (the vals) and some were doing ok (the sag subulata), but the sunset hygro was history... so I potted up some more vals and put everything back together. It's looking happy again.

If anyone wants any yellow lab juveniles let me know. I'll turn loose of them cheap.


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## onemyndseye (May 12, 2006)

Glad to hear this setup is working out well for you ...

It gives me hope for a planted native sunfish tank ....hehe 

(Yeah... I need another tank like I need a new hole in my head)
-Justin
One Mynds Eye


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## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

onemyndseye said:


> (Yeah... I need another tank like I need a new hole in my head)
> -Justin
> One Mynds Eye


So when has that ever stopped one of us? 8 tanks and counting 

Brian


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

LOL

A native tank would be awsome. Our aquairum club goes on a collecting trip each year.

I keep thinking I need to cut back, but I have 12 tanks set up now at home for a total of 710 gallons. If they were all NPTs I'd be in heaven, but I haven't been able to keep my fancy goldies in a NPT and I'm not parting with them even tho they're loads more work.


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## onemyndseye (May 12, 2006)

I limit myself to 6  .... now everytime I get a "New" tank one of the old ones just get upgraded  LOL..

My 2.5 Nano just got upgraded to a 5g bowfront for instance  shame too, I Just finished working out the little sump setup too 

I REALLY enjoyed keeping that group of sunfish ....had them for about 6 months, then turned them loose... Once the temps of summer got here and they go into breeding mode they turned the tank into a 29Gallon mud hole! 

I still have my little Blackstripe topwater minow.

Shown here:
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i145/onemyndseye/fishy1.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i145/onemyndseye/fishy2.jpg

He's still living alone in a heavy planted 10gallon... doing quite well  - I wish I could find him some company though.

LOL, I found a killie in my shrimp tank today. I guess one of my killies had layed eggs in some java moss that ended up in that tank. He's been growing VERY nicely since hatch as this is the 1st time I've seen him and he looks nearly grown...nice rich colors comming in. He's been living WELL in there eating up all my shrimplets no doubt  LOL

Take care,
-Justin
One Mynds Eye


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

That's a neat little fish!

You have more willpower than I do. I keep finding tanks cheap or free. Plus, it's partly Diana's fault! If I had to do regular water changes, there's no way I'd have all these tanks! LOL

I'm down one tank now. A friend of my daughter got kicked out of his dad's house last year. He brought over his 55 and 30 gallon tanks and his fish. I'd been using the 30 as a hospital tank. He's finally decided he wants a tank again, so he and I set his 30 up as a NPT Sunday and he took it home. 

I may tear down a 20 and a 30 over christmas. Both NPTs. I put an amazon sword in the 30 and it's starting to put out runners and is taking up 2/3s of the tank. It'll fill the tank totally when it starts throwing out plantlets in earnest. Plus the sag subulata has taken over the rest of that tank. It's just one big jungle. There's a kleiner bar sword in the 20 and it's getting too big for that tank as well. I need to move the 150 gallon common goldie tank over where those are so it can get more sunlight. but I don't want to! LOL Right now it's sitting right in front of me when I'm at my computer desk and I like having it there. I should tho, cuz I could pot those two huge swords in topsoil and they'd look great in that huge goldie tank.


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## onemyndseye (May 12, 2006)

LOL..... I got a 20 long and stand for Christmas... so much for 6 

Though I may take down one of my Tens...... If I did so I could put "Stripe" in the new 20 with a couple small Sunfish for a nice little Native tank 

I gave serious consideration to trying a planted Cichlid tank like yours when looking at the pretty Kenyi Cichlids at petsmart this weekend. After reading about them though I changed my mind .... Salt + a PH of 8.0+ if Im understanding correctly? ....tis alittle more chemisry adjusting than I care to do 

Gave a quick thought to a pair of angels as well..... but its not really enough tank for it.

-Justin
One Mynds Eye


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

I wouldn't have a decent sized tank without cichlids in them, and there's way, way more suitable ones than just kribs and apistogrammas! (Don't forget angels and discus are cichlids too!)



> After reading about them though I changed my mind .... Salt + a PH of 8.0+ if Im understanding correctly? ....tis alittle more chemisry adjusting than I care to do


Great job with this Mbuna tank, and i always found keeping hardwater cichlids easier than softwater ones, all i did was have a bag of coarse aragonite in the filter that would dissolve and keep the water hard enough for them. Don't put sodium chloride in though, Lake Malawi isn't brackish, just hard, and salt in their water isn't natural and may cause a disease called Malawi Bloat.


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

Seems like someone was telling me the little shell dwelling cichlids and blue rams should do well in a NPT.

I wish these yellow labs would stop breeding.


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