# Why are there not more people auto dosing?



## jdigiorgio

Just wondering why there are not more posts on using Liquid fert dosers? Seems like there would be more control with adding ferts on a steady basis. I am thinking about this. Pros? CONS? Any recommendations on either side or for a good liquid doser?

THANKS!


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## TAB

I've give you 3 reasons why its bad.

1 start up cost is high
2 very hard to "dial in"
3 needed fert levels change as plants grow.

only reason I can think to do it is, might be less work.


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## Elohim_Meth

TAB said:


> 2 very hard to "dial in"


Not hard at all once you know how to do it.


TAB said:


> 3 needed fert levels change as plants grow.


It is not a problem with EI.
In my case, the only drawback is the timers occassionally resetting and I need to set them up once again. But this is due to bad timers, the peristaltic pumps are doing their work properly.
I dose traces 4 times a day because my plants swallow iron fast like mad. In no way I could do it manually.


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## jdigiorgio

It just seems easier to have a set amount added daily or several times a day to ensure proper ferts are given to the plants. i am sure there are pros and cons.


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## bigstick120

I dont why either, its not expensive or hard at all.
Here is an article that I wrote about it.

http://gwapa.org/wordpress/articles/fertilizer-auto-doser/


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## doubleott05

well i dose on the way my plants are reacting 

i guess people call it EI dosing 

i tried auto dosing with Ehiem and it was a mess and the units sucked and they were $$$

thanks


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## Elohim_Meth

You mean Eheim auto-feeder? It is not intended for dosing ferts...


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## Andy Ritter

Hello jdigiorgio,

I have been asking myself the exact same question for quite some time, but have finally decided to not worry about it because it seems like there are always going to be people that come up with excuses for why they don't.

If you haven't already checked out this thread, then be sure and read what I have been doing on my tank for the past ten months. I have listed lots of information about what I am doing, as well as the reasons for why.

To answer your question specifically though:

PROS
You are no longer forced to have to dose your tank everyday (or multiple times of the day, for that matter)
The tank becomes extremely stable (I'm not a scientist, but I feel that this duplicates nature far better than anything else out there)
Because of the first two things, I personally feel that the fish are less stressed from the constant water parameter changes, and I'm less stressed from having to dose all of the time
Plus, the dosing pump is far more accurate than I could ever be

CONS
Initial cost seems to always be the thing that everyone complains about (although I disagree)
As with anything else mechanical or electrical, the potential for failure is always there; however, it is my opinion that it would most likely fail to dose at all, versus dose too much 

To offer my opinions on what has been said so far:

Start up cost high - I have invested about $140 for my system, but to be fair, that includes enough tubing sets to probably last me the next ten years (assuming that they have that long of a shelf life). As far as I'm concerned, all hobbies can be expensive (some VERY expensive), and you have to make up your mind before you get serious about a hobby to what amount of commitment you're willing to make. If you want to bass fish, then you have to figure out if you want to buy a boat, truck, fishing tackle, etc. If you want to play golf, you've got clubs, cart rentals, etc. I think you get my point. If you want a really nice planted aquarium, you've got to buy the aquarium, lights, filters, etc. To me, the amount that I've spent for my dosing system was worth every penny, and I hope to never have to dose manually again.

Hard to dial in - Absolutely ridiculous. All I did was do a little math to figure out how much I was dosing everyday and figure out how to set up the dosing pump and then walked away. I unfortunately am a perfectionist, so I did lots of water testing and eventually came up with what I felt like was the optimum recipe for my tank, but it wasn't any harder than if I had been dumping in the ferts by hand. If anything, I feel that it was easier since the pump is much more accurate and consistent.

Needed ferts change as plants grow - I agree with this one to a certain extent. However, I don't rescape my tank that much, so other than having to trim plants every couple of weeks, my tank stays pretty much the same all of the time. I haven't tweaked my fertilizer recipe since March. Any time that I have changed the tank (added new plants, removed others, changed the fish load, etc.), I have tweaked the recipe slightly, but it hasn't been difficult. Besides, I would have done that whether I was using a dosing pump or not.

Dose the way the plants are reacting - This mindset seems to be extremely prevalent in this hobby, and while I do agree with it a little, for the most part it really gets on my nerves. I look at it like this: Let's say that a city decides to build some new roads and they are going to intersect. They decide to just let the roads cross with no type of traffic control and wait to see how it works out. Before long, they have problems with poor traffic flow, accidents, etc. They then react to these problems and make changes based on these issues. Hopefully no one gets killed while the city is sitting back watching what happens. I completely disagree with this "reactionary" mentality. We know from history and experience how to handle traffic concerns, so we know what we need to do to prevent problems. The same goes with growing plants in an aquarium. Many people before us have already figured out general nutrient amounts, lighting needs, water flow, etc. in order to have plants do well. I prefer to be proactive with my tank. I use the information available and try to mimic what others have already learned, and this has allowed me to set up my tank in a way that has been more stable, beautiful, and enjoyable than I have ever had. Granted, I still watch the plants to see how they are doing, but for the most part, they are doing great and I just get to enjoy the beauty and get to concentrate more on my fish (which is really the whole reason why I have the tank to begin with).

I hope that this information has helped you some with your decision.

Andy


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## bigstick120

doubleott05 said:


> well i dose on the way my plants are reacting
> 
> i guess people call it EI dosing
> 
> i tried auto dosing with Ehiem and it was a mess and the units sucked and they were $$$
> 
> thanks


Your style of dosing isnt EI dosing, you are dosing what the plants need. EI dosing is an extreme overdose of all ferts. EI is decent for beginners, but long term it leaves much to be desired.


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## Newt

bigstick120 said:


> .........EI is decent for beginners, but long term it leaves much to be desired.


I dont dose EI as it never worked in my smaller tanks and never tried it in my 75. Could you explain your comment: "but long term it leaves much to be desired." Thanks


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## Zapins

I'll take a stab at explaining what I think he means by "but long term it leaves much to be desired." 

In my case I stopped EI because it is cumbersome. Dosing EI on 13 large tanks and doing 50% water changes is a PITA and it becomes all too easy to slip into other methods of dosing.


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## Glaucus

As much as i like the DIY solutions, little has been said about dedicated auto-dosing units made for the hobby itself. Yes it is expensive but so is a car, yet everyone owns one . As far as i know there are at least two such systems available:

1. Aqua Medic Reef Doser 
2. GHL profilux dosing pump
3. ...

Does anyone have experience with any of these or other dosing pumps?


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## Elohim_Meth

Mine are these: http://www.etatron.co.uk/detail.php...IXED+FLOW&level_3=F&show=1&keep_level3_open=1
Costs 60 euro, works in conjunction with an electronic timer (not included).


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## Glaucus

Interesting find. What are the dosing intervals you are using and for how long at a time do you operate these pumps, i.e. what volumes are you dosing?


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## Elohim_Meth

Minimum time interval for my timers is 1 minute, pump flow according description must be 1.1 L/h i.e. 18.3 mL per minute, and it really is (I've checked).
I dose traces 4 times a day, 1 minute each time, and macro once a day, 1 min. For both micro and macro I have 5L plastic bottles.


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## Newt

Zapins said:


> I'll take a stab at explaining what I think he means by "but long term it leaves much to be desired."
> 
> In my case I stopped EI because it is cumbersome. Dosing EI on 13 large tanks and doing 50% water changes is a PITA and it becomes all too easy to slip into other methods of dosing.


Thanks, Zapins. This is another reason Ive never tried EI on my 75 as I am old fashioned when it comes to water changes and I have always used 'aged' water. My wife would just love to have more plastic gallon containers around just for the fish tank -NOT. I do my own form of PPS and do a 20% weekly water change and if I dont have time to do it I know what changes/adjustments I need to make.


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## bosmahe1

For me it's just too easy to use dash and pinch sized baking spoons. I don't feel the need for additional hardware to do it.


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## mrakhnyansky

It would be so good if someone with experience of automated fertilization dosing via Peristaltic pump would provide pictures and ideas of their settings, connections etc.


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## Brilliant

Hi, check out my page on autodosing the planted aquarium.


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## mrakhnyansky

Brilliant said:


> Hi, check out my page on autodosing the planted aquarium.


Very need setting, thanks for reply. Peristaltic pumps are located below water level, is it OK, also fluids(solutions) drown by peristaltic pump also located below the pump. Are the check valves really make that much difference? Where did you find u-tubes, I didn't see them in my local pet store. Do they still make them?


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## Brilliant

mrakhnyansky said:


> Very need setting, thanks for reply. Peristaltic pumps are located below water level, is it OK, also fluids(solutions) drown by peristaltic pump also located below the pump. Are the check valves really make that much difference? Where did you find u-tubes, I didn't see them in my local pet store. Do they still make them?


You are welcome.

If solution is above tank it will all dose/drain at once.

Check valve is very important! The peristaltic pump does not make pressure all the time like traditional pump...if liquid not stopped by check valve then it will go back into container. Check valve helps the pump work.

Check valve also prevents aquarium from draining into solution by accident. My u tube is not under water but close enough.

I am sure they still make the tubes. Check the store that installs tanks and sells plumbing supplies. I dont expect to see this at the chain stores.


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## mrakhnyansky

Brilliant said:


> You are welcome.
> 
> If solution is above tank it will all dose/drain at once.
> 
> Check valve is very important! The peristaltic pump does not make pressure all the time like traditional pump...if liquid not stopped by check valve then it will go back into container. Check valve helps the pump work.
> 
> Check valve also prevents aquarium from draining into solution by accident. My u tube is not under water but close enough.
> 
> I am sure they still make the tubes. Check the store that installs tanks and sells plumbing supplies. I dont expect to see this at the chain stores.


Thank you again. I already purchased the pump. The pump I've got is medical peristaltic pump. It can be set with particular amount in mls per hour, and it is programmable. It can dose as little as 1 ml per hour. I would not want this pump above my tank, because my tank going to look like aquatic ER.I am looking into setting up this pump for micros. i will Google for these u-tubes, they look very need. Here is the link on my pump:
http://www.homecareessentials.com/ros52034.html I've bought it on eBay for around $40.00
Tell me what you think.


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## houseofcards

jdigiorgio said:


> Just wondering why there are not more posts on using Liquid fert dosers? Seems like there would be more control with adding ferts on a steady basis. I am thinking about this. Pros? CONS? Any recommendations on either side or for a good liquid doser?
> 
> THANKS!


It's a really good question. I've often considered this as well. I think I could only do it on my main tank I don't think it would be practical to confiqure it on all my tanks from Nano to large and since I have to dose the other one's manually that has probably stopped me from setting it up. It's also more equipment going to the tank which I hate.

I pretty much dose EI on all my tanks and don't really worry to much about measurements, just ballpark. Let's say I have 4 tanks. I simply take the sum dosage of the tanks and pour the pre-mix (dry ferts) into a gallon water jug. And then pour a rough percentage of the gallon into all 4 tanks based on their size. So if I have 150 gallons of tanks and my biggest tank is 75g then I pour half the jug into that tank first and then distribute the remaining half to the other three tanks based on their size.


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## wet

Great post, Andy Ritter. And thanks for the sweet HowTo, Brilliant.

My only thought -- and I have not done this -- is that an autodosing method should also incorporate auto top-off. For example, if during the summer we calculate our tank evaporates a half gallon per day, we could use something like a sealed 15 gallon rubermaid bin on a gravity feed mixed a month's worth of fertilizers, and have auto topoffs with little-to-no water changes and no motor. This could be scaled for several months, but I think shorter intervals between refilling/dosing the reservoir will be advantageous in adjusting for the tank, seasons, and so on. 

But, of course, this is much easier typed than done. The plans and details here already solve most of the puzzle... I just think autodosing can be leveraged to solve another annoying problem (evaporation).


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## Brilliant

Thank you.

Bigstick posted a link to his poor man's auto doser. That uses a somewhat less accurate method of autodosing. Less accuracy is bonus...the auto topoff.

Just imagine dosing a liter instead of a milliliter. Use same amount of dry ferts just add more water.

I got away with larger hose, tall head & weak pump. My aquarium is 65g so I can add quite a bit without fear of overflowing. I will try to make a new page detailing my cheaper rig soon.


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## wet

Yes - thank you also to bigstick120 for the great HowTo!

I was actually thinking of something motor-less; therefore, there is no danger of pump, flow, and overfilling the main tank. Check out this cool link that actually perfectly does the idea. Found it while googling "water surface tension and water top-off" and finding this great reefbuilder's guide! http://reefbuilders.com/2009/05/26/diy-tea-jar-auto-topoff/

See what I mean? As you said, Brilliant and houseofcards, we've got some wiggle room with dosing amounts, which in this case will be advantageous because (more than likely) we'll be ballparking evaporation rate.


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## xJaypex

bigstick120 said:


> I dont why either, its not expensive or hard at all.
> Here is an article that I wrote about it.
> 
> http://gwapa.org/wordpress/articles/fertilizer-auto-doser/


Thanks for this, it looks so simple and at the same time it wont burn a whole through my wallet. Im convinced to go with auto dosing, how long have you been using this method? any problems so far?


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## majstor76

Im doing EI with water pumps a few weeks with a mix results. I have two carnisters with two pumps connected to timer and have full EI schedule programed and that part if fine. Problem is i cant get constant results, maybe pumps are too low end, maybe i should get some higher quality pumps with higer output. One day i got 47 ml, then 31 ml then 46. And it looks like output is dropping with dropping level of fert in container, it think level of fert in container needs to be on constant level for constant output so containers needs auto filling (that could be made). And one more thing , on the end of hoses i have chech valves and they are good to drop output, on 150 litre/hour pump i have output about 20 ml in minute


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## NeonFlux

A lot of interesting stuff here on auto dosing ferts. I have used the Eheim Liquidoser for a while, only for potassium and it works great, okay; but sometimes, the measurements on the doser tube would double the regular amount dose (1 ml - 2ml) when you overfill the inside container, but it's all good if you remove a good amount of fert until it gets to the regular dosing amount.


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## xJaypex

majstor76 said:


> Im doing EI with water pumps a few weeks with a mix results. I have two carnisters with two pumps connected to timer and have full EI schedule programed and that part if fine. Problem is i cant get constant results, maybe pumps are too low end, maybe i should get some higher quality pumps with higer output. One day i got 47 ml, then 31 ml then 46. And it looks like output is dropping with dropping level of fert in container, it think level of fert in container needs to be on constant level for constant output so containers needs auto filling (that could be made). And one more thing , on the end of hoses i have chech valves and they are good to drop output, on 150 litre/hour pump i have output about 20 ml in minute


So you only have one timer dosing both liquid solutions at the same time? How many days a week do you have it dosing?


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## majstor76

xJaypex said:


> So you only have one timer dosing both liquid solutions at the same time? How many days a week do you have it dosing?


This is the timer










like i wrote, im dosing full EI, 7 days a week (well, one day is rest). Micro and macro each have their own pumps and are on their own programs on timer.
Timer can program 14 ons and 14 offs, for the whole week, enough for lights and EI


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## xJaypex

I have another quick question, Im deciding on buying the BRS 2 part doser pump. Should i get the 1.1mL per minute or the 50mL per minute? My fish tank size is a 65 gallon.


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