# HERES A DOOZIE for a 180G Discus SUBSTRATE ISSUE



## 00dank (Mar 28, 2007)

Hey guys I recently had a 200G planted tank with a bunch of substrate(Flourite, Flora-Base, Eco-Complete) in it, to make a long story short, I sold my 200G and I bought a 180 which took too long to arrive and I had to store the substrate in plastic bags for a few weeks (maybe 3 tops), I added this to my new tank along with a a therma-root system(root heater) and a fresh topping of flora-base and eco-complete. I planted my plants and started up the co2 at 1 bubble every 3-ish sec. all plants seem to grow especially well int he refegium but when I move them up to the top tank they start to die off (turn yellow quickly and get holes in them) now I know SNAILS right! nope, see a few but not much even at night. Tank is at 82, 6.5 ph, 0ammonia, 0 nitrates, >.25 nitrites( i may have them mixed up its late) I don't ever see any fish eating the plants.

the strange art is the tank has been running for around 4-5 months. in the beginning alot of growth and then it all started going crazy a few months ago(about 1-2 mo into it). The only change was the lighting system from power compacts to halides but that was a few weeks ago, and no co2 but I used chemi pure to purify the water while I was out of cos, and no spikes. I was curious if this could be from the old substrate maybe some sort of anearobic bacteria from storing it(was it even safe?) 

I use a mixture of R/O with tap water and discus buffer/prime with api stress coat and I have a lot of algae growth(green spots on the front only constantly, and now red hair algae) which I think is from the lights. but I need more plants I bet!
Please help and sorry for the epic novel above just thought I would try to be a little specific! thanks a MILLION!


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

Welcome to APC! 

How much light do you have over the tank?

My first guess is that the plants are starving for nutrients... The plants grew at the beginning until they used up all the nutrients available and then they starved. Plants, especially under good lighting, need carbon, nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium, iron and other trace elements.

I doubt it's a substrate issue.

Here's a couple of good reads:

www.rexgrigg.com

http://www.aquatic-plants.org/articles/basics/pages/01_intro.html

Enjoy!


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## 00dank (Mar 28, 2007)

Sweet dude thanks, but isn't the refegium supposed to take care of all that?

heres the link?

http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/miraclemud2.html

but heres what it says

Miracle Mud 2 is a product of EcoSystem Aquarium® that has been carefully formulated to include all the essential trace elements, minerals, and components necessary to maintain a successful aquarium.

Miracle Mud 2 will continually replenish your aquarium's concentration of trace elements and minerals to create an ideal environment.

Miracle Mud 2 also contains anaerobic microorganisms that denitrify the aquarium leading to a pristine home for your fishes. Further proven benefits from the usage of Miracle Mud 2 include:

* Reversal of head and lateral line erosion (HLLE) in fishes.
* Restoration and maintenance of fish's health and vibrant colors.
* Ideal for discus aquarions.
* Natural denitrifier.


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

I've never used Miracle Mud and the website info doesn't say anything about what it actually does besides replenishing the "concentration of trace elements and minerals". What trace elements? What minerals?

It doesn't say a word about plants either, only about growing marine macro algae in it.

A search on Reef Central (seems this stuff is used mainly in marine setups) revealed that someone thought it slowly releases Fe into the water.

I wouldn't rely on this to provide all the needed nutrients for your plants.

So how much light do you have over your tank?


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## 00dank (Mar 28, 2007)

2x175w 6700K metal halides
2x65w Dual Actinic PC
mounted under canopy with three fans (2 blowing in, 1 blowing out)

soon to come is the moon tube moonlight controller but thats just a cool gadget.

I just started adding some phosphate to the system and planted fert. BUT testing it frequently. Whats a simple way to make sure your tank is dialed in correctly? or is there no such thing yet?


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

Here's two methods of fertilizing well lit, CO2 injected, well planted tanks. Both methods work, just different approaches:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...zing/15225-estimative-index-dosing-guide.html

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...g/4241-pps-perpetual-preservation-system.html

I also noticed that you inject CO2 at one bubble every three seconds. While bubble rate is not a very good indicator of amount of CO2 in the tank, a bubble every three seconds seems low, especially in a large tank such as yours. The best way of making sure you're getting enough CO2 into your tank is the modified drop checker method, descriptions of which can be found here in the forums.


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## 00dank (Mar 28, 2007)

Gracias testing everything now and setting correct parameters. 


Roger dodger


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