# Do all plants go through a die-off stage when newly planted??



## Carlos1583 (Jul 7, 2006)

Hi all....I recently purchased some plants last friday at aquatek in austin and they happen to be wisteria, microsword, red foxtail?, and one other plant I can't identify (hopefully get a pic up later). I planted them on friday but it seems that a lot of the leaves are withering away or are not as bright. I bought them submerged and I have 3.25WPG, DIY CO2, and ferts. I'm not sure what the problem but its happened to all of my plants (except the javamoss). Could it be the substrate (gravel only)? Should I try to buy some soil or laterite and sprinkle it onto the gravel during a water change? Thanks for the help.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Most plants don't die back when you plant them, but some do. I hope you are dosing nitrates, phosphates, potassium and traces along with the CO2. To get started read up on EI fertilizing.


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## joephys (May 9, 2006)

Crypts tend to melt when replanted, but they grow back. Sometimes if plants are grown out of water they can die back when planted in the tank because they may grow differently above water. They should grow back. Generally though, new plants should die off when planted. They will probably grow back given a little time.


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## Carlos1583 (Jul 7, 2006)

I'm hoping so....most of my crypts have come back. The 2 amazon swords are coming in nicely as well as my tiger lotus. the anubias will not root but they are growing (I just realized that you can put them on driftwood...now I find out). The Myrio pinnatum and bacopa did not do well...but is slowly coming back, very slowly. The Vallisneria americana continues to lose leaves and is hardly growing while the Vallisneria gigantea is coming along but has brown edges. There are a couple of other plants I can't identify but they seem to be growing slowly but surely. I purchased all these plants a little over a month ago but I began fertilizing a couple of weeks later
Of the new plants I planted last friday, both the wisteria and the Limnophila indica (Ambulia) have leaves that are changing colors or withering. The Red Foxtail is also changing colors (not sure if its the different lights or amount of certain chemical such as iron or nitrate). The microsword is doing allright for now, but I think its too early to tell. 

I use all fertilizers except trace and nitrate (Nitrate is always present at 10ppm or so and I use flourish complete instead of trace...if they are substanially different, then perhaps that was my mistake). I do use phosphate ( 3 or 4 drops 1x - 2x a week since texas waters are high in phosphate), potassium, and iron ferts (all flourish brands). I will switch to greg watsons' ferts as soon as I finish my current ferts. I'm trying to follow a routine of changing 50% water every week and after the change, I dose prime and all fertilizers. Then I dose flourish complete every other day and I dose potassium, phosphate, and iron every 3 days. My photo period is 12 hours. 

I really would like to make sure I'm doing the right thing, or at least going in the right direction. I would hate to spend all this money and fail to see results. Again, I appreciate all the help you can give me. I will also try to post the most updated pics for help in landscaping and such. Thanks again...


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## Carlos1583 (Jul 7, 2006)

Well since no has replied, I have some pics that hopefully help explain my situation. Here they are...

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e77/Carlos1583/Plantedtank2.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e77/Carlos1583/Plantedtank5.jpg

This here is the ambulia that I purchased on friday....some of the leaves are withering and changing colors. You can also see some brown on the edges of the sword behind it. Is that brown diatoms?

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e77/Carlos1583/Plantedtank6.jpg

I can't identify this plant but the coloration on the leaves are not pretty...does any know what this is and whats on the leaves?

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e77/Carlos1583/Plantedtank3.jpg

Here...the wisteria is also withering, even though it is supposed to be a beginner plant. You can also see algae on the anubia leaf to the left of it. There is also a brown coat on the filter intake tube...would SAE or another algae eater take care of that?

Again, i hate to bother everyone with my problems but I would appreciate all the help I can get. Thanks...


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

First, take the NO3 test kit and dump it in the trash. Next, start dosing per EI, including nitrates, phosphates and traces. Then, do weekly 50% water changes. And, of course, make sure you are adding as much CO2 as you can without harming your fish and shrimp. That will solve the problems you have. You simply cannot grow plants without both nitrates and phosphates. And, test kits are best used for entertainment, not to determine how much to dose.


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## Carlos1583 (Jul 7, 2006)

well since i don't have watsons' ferts yet, how much of the seachem stuff do I dose a week? I'll try to dose more than the recommended for a couple of weeks and see how it does.


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## xcooperx (Jun 24, 2006)

when i recieve my plants thru mail they are like that but after 3-5 days i see some improvement already on all my plants, sometimes i saw them pearling, hmmmm... but your's look like different, its look like there some deficiency, IMO its the gravel, why dont you try to change it with finer gravel (the one on rexgrigg site) then put some laterite under the gravel.

oh About the plants that you can't identify i think its Amazon Sword (Echinodorus bleheri)

Photo is courtesy of Plantgeek, for identification purposes only


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

Change your photo period to 8-10. With EI here was my schedule with Seachem....

Sunday 50% water change dose NPK
Monday FLOURISH
Tuesday IRON
Wednesday NPK
Thursday FLOURISH
Friday IRON
Saturday NPK
Repeat

When first using EI method of dosing, dose the recommend amount from the bottle then up the dosing ever week or two until nice results are shown, it might take a while but it beats, randomly guessing what is wrong and fiddling with stuff here and there when in fact something else needs fiddling with. Hope that last sentence made sense.....

What is your tank size? DIY co2 is no good on a tank larger than a 10g in my opinion. And you can practically grow everything in 2 - 2.5wpg so 3-4wpg is high if you don't have the plant mass, co2, or ferts to go along with it. From what I have read you are giving the plants the minimum amount of ferts in that high light, don't be afraid to dose more, dose until the plants are healthy then stop.

When I receive new plants, only sensitive plants whitter out and grow back nicely for me. Another might be that they have been grown emersed, but I doubt this is the casue with your plants. Lastly, they can die off and grow back if your water params is dramatically different from it's last owners.

If you plan on adding Laterite, it is supposed to be under your gravel.

Judging from your pictures.. this is a newly setup tank right? It has diatoms. A newly setup tank might experience this.


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## Carlos1583 (Jul 7, 2006)

Thanks for the suggestions...xcooperx: I also think the gravel isn't helping but the plants are rooting. So while I might not get the best results, I have to stick with it because changing the gravel at this point, I feel, may be too difficult. If, and when, I get a new tank, more than likely it will be another planted tank and I will start off right. The tank I have, I started with color gravel and fake decorations until I finally started reading around and tried plants. I changed the gravel once to the smallest gravel i could find at the pet store. Also, the plant I can't identify is in the 3rd link...I know it isn't amazon sword...it looks to be some type of rosette plant though. 

Turtlehead: I will reduce the photoperiod to about 10 hours and see if that helps reduce the diatoms. I will also start to increase the dose for all the ferts that I do have. Unfortunately, I don't have nitrate, but I do have the others. My tank size is 20 gallon and I do feel that the DIY Co2 is helping becaue it has reduced my pH. I can't afford pressurized right now so it will have to do. 

I would like to put laterite, but as I mentioned, I can't change the gravel. If it was possible, I would put a little at a time and let it sink below the gravel, but I don't think it is possible. It is a new tank ( a little over a month since I planted it). 

Again, thanks for the suggesetions...I hate to be a pain but I really want to achieve what people have on these forums.


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## xcooperx (Jun 24, 2006)

last try for the plant:

Photo by:Hoppycalif


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

If it is a 20g with 3.25 wpg I would try to lower the wattage somehow to 2wpg while boosting my ferts, plant load, and lowing the photoperiod. Also try to get some N. Moving half of the gravel to one side to place the laterite it then doing the same to the other half i not a hassle, the tank may be cloudy for a while but it should clear up the next day depending on how dirty/fine the gravel is. You don't need to drain the tank and change the gravel. Draining 3/4 of the water then putting the laterite under then filling it up with the drained water is even better and won't be as cloudy. That won't start your tank cycle over again.


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