# Which is best with pressurized co2?



## steel1212 (Feb 21, 2006)

I don't have the funds for 3 1000 reactors right now and I'm not smart enough to make a home made one not leak. I have hagen ladders and wood stones. I was wondering which one of those would be best for getting the most co2 into the tanks?


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Wooden air stone, the linewood kind, or order a few of the small Sweetwhater airstones from www.aquaticeco.com


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I agree with Dennis. Nothing is much simpler than a limewood "stone" sitting under the filter outlet spraybar, and that does get CO2 into the water plus a CO2 mist effect too. A ceramic disc diffuser does that well too, but takes more pressure to get the bubbles going thru it (for some brands).


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## steel1212 (Feb 21, 2006)

I've got 1 coralife wood stone in front of each of my returns on my bigger tanks should I get another one for my 29 or will the ladder work for now?


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

steel1212 said:


> I've got 1 coralife wood stone in front of each of my returns on my bigger tanks should I get another one for my 29 or will the ladder work for now?


The ladder does a pretty good job, especially with pressurized. Check your CO2 levels, and see if you need to add another CO2 diffuser.

You should see a good drop in pH if your can manage to run your bubbles on the ladder at a relatively high rate without them bumping each other.

-John N.


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## steel1212 (Feb 21, 2006)

What is the most accurate way to tell how much co2 is in my tank and how much do I need?


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

If you are not doing anything else to the water, and not effect pH in any way..

Then checking your pH and KH levels and comparing them to this will tell you how much CO2 you're injecting. KH is usually constant, and pH will go down as more CO2 is effectively dissolved in the water.

-John N.


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## steel1212 (Feb 21, 2006)

according to that chart what if my co2 is to high, is that a bad thing or I just need to turn it down. Are the green areas the area that you can grow pretty much any plant with that amount of co2?


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

High levels of CO2 can be determential to fish. I should of mention the observable way of testing CO2 levels which is: If you see fish gasping or hanging out near the surface more than usual, then you're levels are too high, and CO2 needs to be turned down till the fish resume normal activity. 

You're shooting for 30 ppm to grow pretty much anything given lighting and other fert needs are met. Some folks keep it around 30-40. I have mine at around 35-40 ppm just in case my test kits are wrong. I haven't had any issues with my fish.

I hope that clarifies it abit.

-John N.


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## steel1212 (Feb 21, 2006)

yeah, thats what I needed, thanks. I'll check those tonight and see where I'm at.


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## steel1212 (Feb 21, 2006)

My ph is below 6 or below on my 75 and my 29 with a kh of 60ppm according to my hagen master test kit. My fish aren't gasping or anything so whats up? I do 50% water changes every week.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Hmm according to the above CO2 Chart and punching in your numbers here it seems like you have over 100 ppms of CO2..

I'm surprised your fish aren't surfacing! Maybe the kits are off? You're not doing anything else chemically to the water? Any rocks in there to effect KH? If you aren't then it's possible the kits are off. You have me stumped...I'm sure someone can give you viable explaination...


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## steel1212 (Feb 21, 2006)

Ok so is my 60ppm really 6 on the chart? I'm confused with all this. Should slow down the co2 would that help? Its a brand new kit. I'm going to test my tap water here in a second.


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## steel1212 (Feb 21, 2006)

ok so my tap is 60ppm kh and 7.6ph.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Well punching in 60 ppm and ph of 6 in the fields on this webpage

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

tells me the KH of 60 ppm is equivalent to 3.4 degrees. Ultimately giving a reading of 102 ppms of C02.

I think if you're fish aren't showing signs of stress and your plants are pearling, and growing you can leave it where it is. But for some some piece of mind, you can reduce CO2 a little to raise the pH to about 6.4 for a CO2 of 41 ppms.

John


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## steel1212 (Feb 21, 2006)

I was putting the numbers in the wrong spot. Ok so how many bubbles per second are you guys running...I couldn't even see bubbles the way I had it setup. Also if I crank it down how long before I should test again to see if it came down?


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Typically test right before lights go on, and lights go out. That should give you a general indication.

BPM is relative to everyone depending oh how one diffuses the CO2 and how effective it is. I say start at around 3 bpm and work from there.


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## steel1212 (Feb 21, 2006)

3 bubbles per minute or second?


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

If your fish look fine, I'd leave the CO2 as high as you can get it. It only helps plant growth and seems to have a detrimental effect on alage. I wouldn't get pH much below 6.0 though. Are you sure your test kits are accurate?

For comparison, I use about 2 bubbles/second on my 46g tank with a DIY in-line reactor. This drops my pH from about 7.3 or 7.4 (degassed) to 6.3 by the end of the day.


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## steel1212 (Feb 21, 2006)

I tested it at the end of the day and it read 6 so it might be right at 6 but it also might be below I can't tell. I'll test it first thing sat morning and see where its at then. I'm afraid that my co2 was too high causeing the ph to drop way to low. I couldn't count the bubbles they where going so fast! I have it around 5 bubbles per second or around there on all my tanks now.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Depending on the efficiency of your diffusor, reactor, or whatever, 5 bps isn't that outrageous for a tank as big as 92g.


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## steel1212 (Feb 21, 2006)

I'm just useing 1 limewood stone under my water return on the 2 big ones and a hagen ladder on the 29. Its 5bps on all 3 of my tanks.


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## steel1212 (Feb 21, 2006)

well my 75 at around 5bps is ph of 7 and kh of around 50ppm. My 29 is ph of 6.8 and 50 ppm with 5 bps. My 92 has a ph of 7.2 and kh of 60ppm with 5bps. THis is after a day with around 5bps. Is it safe to say that I need to bump up the co2 output?


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

If you're really running >4 wpg you probalby need more CO2 in these tanks. I'm curious - are you counting bubbles in a bubble counter or are you counting bubbles coming out of the diffusor? With 5 bps thru the counter the diffusor should be putting out a huge storm of very fine bubbles.

In any case, for comparison, my KH is about 80 ppm and my pH is about 6.3 to 6.4. This is much, much lower than yours. It seems to me that you're either not dissolving some of the CO2 that you are adding, or it is escaping somewhere. Do you have a lot of surface aggitiation?


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## steel1212 (Feb 21, 2006)

Yeah, I'm really running >4 watts per gallon. I also don't have a huge storm of bubbles and I'm trying to count the bubbles coming out of the counter not the limewood block. I turned up the output tonight and I'll see where it is tomorrow evening. Hopefully it should be closer or at least in the green as its almost there now.


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## steel1212 (Feb 21, 2006)

Well this morning they are the same as they where last night when I tested them. It was getting closer to lights out though. I also have mine turning off at night, should I just leave it running? I always heard that the co2 would build up because the plants don't use it at night.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

There isn't too much harm in leaving it on at night, but most people don't. It's wasteful - CO2 isn't expensive, but changing out bottles is a pain. If you have a tight-fitting cover I suppose it could build up a little, but there are plenty of people that run theirs 24/7.

I do notice in my tank that pH is lowest at the end of the day, and highest in the morning. It only varries by a couple of tenths of pH though. My tank is completely covered and the CO2 comes on and off with the lights.


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## steel1212 (Feb 21, 2006)

well here is the new readings as of tonight. 
75: AM: 7.2PH, 50KH, 5.3co2 PM: 6.8PH, 50KH, 13.3co2 
29: AM: 6.8PH, 50KH, 13.3co2 PM: 6.4PH, 50KH, 33.4co2
92: AM: 7.2PH, 60KH, 6.4co2 PM: 7.0PH, 60KH, 10.2co2

Is the 29 ok or should I bump it up some as well? Of course I have to bump the to bigger tanks up.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

I'd guess your 29 is pretty close to what you want. The others are on the low end for CO2 IMO.


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## steel1212 (Feb 21, 2006)

what I was wondering on the 29 was it takes it 12 hours to get to 33 is that enough co2 for plants in the time it takes it to get there? I guess now I know why the ph controller is such a nice feature. I would set it around 6.4ish and there would always be 33ppm co2.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Yeah, I've been recently thinking about a controller too. My pH isn't really where it should be until about 1/2 way through the day. Without one, ideally, CO2 would come on an hour or two before the lights and go off an hour or two earlier. I'm too cheap to go out and buy another timer - so I'm just running the two together for now. Controllers have their own issues though. If the probe calibration goes off or if the KH of the tank suddenly changes, all sorts of bad things can happen to your tank.

I seem to recall a theory that floated around here a while ago that algae respond to changing environments, "sensing" when it was time to wake up and go crazy. I'm not sure this makes any sense to me - I tend to believe that algae is an ever-present plague ready to pounce whenever conditions allow for its existence. A more stable environment to allow the plants to run at optimum conditions at all times seems desirable though. Besides, it's probably easier on the fish metabolically to live in a stable environment.


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## steel1212 (Feb 21, 2006)

I guess it would be pointless to check the amount of co2 after a 50% water change?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

guaiac_boy said:


> Besides, it's probably easier on the fish metabolically to live in a stable environment.


In nature, streams and lakes undergo big shifts in parameters when a big rain comes, a cold front passes by, big runoff occurs, etc. I am not at all sure we don't baby our fish too much when we seek stable conditions for them.


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