# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Discus



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

_Discus Fish - Genus Symphysodon

Discus were first introduced in the 1920's and are now regarded as one of the most beautiful of all aquarium fish. They are colorful and difficult and difficult to care for, but nevertheless, their popularity is constantly rising.

PD: All discus have the typical almost circular, discus-shape. They have strong lateral compression and large anal and dorsal fins. The Discus has a steep forehead and a small mouth. The iris of the eye is usually blood-red in color. The body and fin color and pattern varies greatly of the species, habitat, and diet. For instance, the red tones are enhanced when the fish is fed brine shrimp. In the vast Amazon basin, separate populations have developed and originally created the differential of color and markings.

HAB: Discus are found in calm parts of small, blackwater rivers, lakes, and deep pools. They are usually found in small groups around submerged, fallen trees; decaying wood and vegetation; and aquatic grasses. Discus tend to stay in shaded areas during the day. The water is usually very clean with little or no pollutants. Discus are widely distributed throughout the Amazon Basin. The water in the natural habitat of Discus is acidic, around a pH of 6.0-6.5; and is very soft, 0-3 dH. Discus are found in warm water with a temperature of 77-84°F (25-29°C). 
In Southeast Asia, Discus are raised in soft to medium hard, alkaline water (3-9 dH, pH 7.0-8.0) with temperatures ranging from 81-91°F (27-33°C).

TANK: Discus prefer large, roomy, tall tanks of at least 40" (101 cm) long, and 20" (50 cm) high. The water should be clean and relatively bacteria free. The tank should be arranged in dark colors and floating plants should be used to diffuse the light. Discus may remain hidden all day if bright light is used. Driftwood, roots, driftwood, and heavy vegetation should be used to provide hiding places. Open swimming areas should be created. A good filter for removing wastes is essential in Discus care. Partial regular water changes are recommended to keep the Discus in top health. They are very sensitive to pollutants, especially nitrates and nitrites. Discus do best in peat-filtered water.

WATER: As a general rule, Discus should be kept in water with similar conditions to their natural habitat. However, many Discus are raised in captivity and their range of water conditions is more varied. Most Discus can tolerate water with a pH of 5.0-7.5 and a water hardness of 0-8 dH. The water should be kept warm, 77-86°F (25-30°C).

SB: Discus are calm, timid fish who like to be kept in small groups of 6-8 fish. There is much debate to whether discus should be kept in community tanks or in species tanks. Since Discus coexist with other fish in nature, they can be kept with other peaceful fish. Discus feel more comfortable if combined with small schooling fish such as characins. When the discus see the characins in the open, they are likely to come out, sensing that they are safe to swim. Adult Discus may eat small fish if not brought up with small fish. Take care when combining Discus with greedy feeders such as Angelfish, and Discus may not be able to compete.

SC: Catfish (Loricarids, Corydoras ), characins (tetras, hatchetfish, pencilfish), cichlids ( Apistogramma, Uaru ).

FOOD: Provide a large variety of live, dry, and frozen foods. Try to feed Discus as many nutritional foods as possible such as fortified flake foods, water insects, and brine shrimp. Some Discus are very picky eaters and will only take live foods like Tubifex , bloodworms, mosquito larvae, and beef heart. These foods are not especially healthy and should only be used sparingly. Tubifex worms usually come from polluted waterways and thus must be kept clean or the Discus may develop hole-in-the-head disease. Foods formulated for discus are available.

SEX: The distinguishing of the male and female is difficult. Adult males may develop a small lump on their foreheads, but this difference is not always reliable. During the spawning season, the shape of the genital papillae serves as the best difference. It is round in female and pointed in males, although this difference is also difficult to detect.

B: The best way to breed Discus is too raise a group of 6-8 fish and watch to see them pair off at about 4" (10 cm). If a pair begins pecking of the glass sides of the tank, it is ready to spawn. Remove this pair into a clean tank with a pH of about 6.5, a water hardness of 1-3 dH, and a warm water temperature of 82-88°F (28-31°C). The pair should be provided with a vertical spawning medium, such as a large plastic tube, a large rock, or a piece of slate. This surface will be carefully cleaned by the pair. The female fans and guards the 100-200 eggs, while the male guards the area. The eggs hatch in 2-3 days and the parents aide the hatching fry by gently nibbling on the egg casings. The fry are then moved by the parents to a different area where they are attached by sticky filaments to this new site. After 4-5 days more, the fry attach themselves to the flanks of the parents. The fry feed on a milky secretion produced by gland cells in the parents skin. After about 10 days the fry should be removed from the parents, or else the may overgraze and damage the parent's skin. They should then be fed on Artemia nauplii. Alternatively, discus larvae can be reared on commercial products if they are removed just after hatching. Regular water changes are essential for the survival of the young. The fry grow quickly and develop the discus-shape in 3-4 months. 
In Southeast Asia, Discus are bred in medium hard, alkaline water. Breeders keep young in buckets and perform complete water changes 2-4 times daily.

BP: Breeding is difficult.

R: Two species make up the Discus group, S. discus and S. aequifaciatus . There are two sub-species of the first; S. discus discus and S. discus willischwartzi , and three sub-species of the latter; S. aequifaciatus aequifaciatus , S. aequifaciatus axelrodi , and S. aequifaciatus haraldi . Many crosses have been produced and new selectively bred variations have been developed. Discus are wild-caught in the Amazon basin at night by using strong light to mesmerize the fish. The area is then encircled with netting and slowly drawn closer, with all obstructions such as wood being removed. Species of Discus are now considered endangered in some areas. There are numerous Discus forms which have been developed by selective breeding.

DC: Discus are challenging fish to care for, but are well worth the effort. They must have a variety of foods including live, and are sensitive to disease and poor water conditions._

Above info is from mongabay.com,
http://www.mongabay.com/fish/discus.htm

Here is a few of my pics,




























*My Digital Gallery*

[This message was edited by Jay Luto on Tue September 16 2003 at 07:53 AM.]

[This message was edited by ekim on Tue October 14 2003 at 07:21 PM.]


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

_Discus Fish - Genus Symphysodon

Discus were first introduced in the 1920's and are now regarded as one of the most beautiful of all aquarium fish. They are colorful and difficult and difficult to care for, but nevertheless, their popularity is constantly rising.

PD: All discus have the typical almost circular, discus-shape. They have strong lateral compression and large anal and dorsal fins. The Discus has a steep forehead and a small mouth. The iris of the eye is usually blood-red in color. The body and fin color and pattern varies greatly of the species, habitat, and diet. For instance, the red tones are enhanced when the fish is fed brine shrimp. In the vast Amazon basin, separate populations have developed and originally created the differential of color and markings.

HAB: Discus are found in calm parts of small, blackwater rivers, lakes, and deep pools. They are usually found in small groups around submerged, fallen trees; decaying wood and vegetation; and aquatic grasses. Discus tend to stay in shaded areas during the day. The water is usually very clean with little or no pollutants. Discus are widely distributed throughout the Amazon Basin. The water in the natural habitat of Discus is acidic, around a pH of 6.0-6.5; and is very soft, 0-3 dH. Discus are found in warm water with a temperature of 77-84°F (25-29°C). 
In Southeast Asia, Discus are raised in soft to medium hard, alkaline water (3-9 dH, pH 7.0-8.0) with temperatures ranging from 81-91°F (27-33°C).

TANK: Discus prefer large, roomy, tall tanks of at least 40" (101 cm) long, and 20" (50 cm) high. The water should be clean and relatively bacteria free. The tank should be arranged in dark colors and floating plants should be used to diffuse the light. Discus may remain hidden all day if bright light is used. Driftwood, roots, driftwood, and heavy vegetation should be used to provide hiding places. Open swimming areas should be created. A good filter for removing wastes is essential in Discus care. Partial regular water changes are recommended to keep the Discus in top health. They are very sensitive to pollutants, especially nitrates and nitrites. Discus do best in peat-filtered water.

WATER: As a general rule, Discus should be kept in water with similar conditions to their natural habitat. However, many Discus are raised in captivity and their range of water conditions is more varied. Most Discus can tolerate water with a pH of 5.0-7.5 and a water hardness of 0-8 dH. The water should be kept warm, 77-86°F (25-30°C).

SB: Discus are calm, timid fish who like to be kept in small groups of 6-8 fish. There is much debate to whether discus should be kept in community tanks or in species tanks. Since Discus coexist with other fish in nature, they can be kept with other peaceful fish. Discus feel more comfortable if combined with small schooling fish such as characins. When the discus see the characins in the open, they are likely to come out, sensing that they are safe to swim. Adult Discus may eat small fish if not brought up with small fish. Take care when combining Discus with greedy feeders such as Angelfish, and Discus may not be able to compete.

SC: Catfish (Loricarids, Corydoras ), characins (tetras, hatchetfish, pencilfish), cichlids ( Apistogramma, Uaru ).

FOOD: Provide a large variety of live, dry, and frozen foods. Try to feed Discus as many nutritional foods as possible such as fortified flake foods, water insects, and brine shrimp. Some Discus are very picky eaters and will only take live foods like Tubifex , bloodworms, mosquito larvae, and beef heart. These foods are not especially healthy and should only be used sparingly. Tubifex worms usually come from polluted waterways and thus must be kept clean or the Discus may develop hole-in-the-head disease. Foods formulated for discus are available.

SEX: The distinguishing of the male and female is difficult. Adult males may develop a small lump on their foreheads, but this difference is not always reliable. During the spawning season, the shape of the genital papillae serves as the best difference. It is round in female and pointed in males, although this difference is also difficult to detect.

B: The best way to breed Discus is too raise a group of 6-8 fish and watch to see them pair off at about 4" (10 cm). If a pair begins pecking of the glass sides of the tank, it is ready to spawn. Remove this pair into a clean tank with a pH of about 6.5, a water hardness of 1-3 dH, and a warm water temperature of 82-88°F (28-31°C). The pair should be provided with a vertical spawning medium, such as a large plastic tube, a large rock, or a piece of slate. This surface will be carefully cleaned by the pair. The female fans and guards the 100-200 eggs, while the male guards the area. The eggs hatch in 2-3 days and the parents aide the hatching fry by gently nibbling on the egg casings. The fry are then moved by the parents to a different area where they are attached by sticky filaments to this new site. After 4-5 days more, the fry attach themselves to the flanks of the parents. The fry feed on a milky secretion produced by gland cells in the parents skin. After about 10 days the fry should be removed from the parents, or else the may overgraze and damage the parent's skin. They should then be fed on Artemia nauplii. Alternatively, discus larvae can be reared on commercial products if they are removed just after hatching. Regular water changes are essential for the survival of the young. The fry grow quickly and develop the discus-shape in 3-4 months. 
In Southeast Asia, Discus are bred in medium hard, alkaline water. Breeders keep young in buckets and perform complete water changes 2-4 times daily.

BP: Breeding is difficult.

R: Two species make up the Discus group, S. discus and S. aequifaciatus . There are two sub-species of the first; S. discus discus and S. discus willischwartzi , and three sub-species of the latter; S. aequifaciatus aequifaciatus , S. aequifaciatus axelrodi , and S. aequifaciatus haraldi . Many crosses have been produced and new selectively bred variations have been developed. Discus are wild-caught in the Amazon basin at night by using strong light to mesmerize the fish. The area is then encircled with netting and slowly drawn closer, with all obstructions such as wood being removed. Species of Discus are now considered endangered in some areas. There are numerous Discus forms which have been developed by selective breeding.

DC: Discus are challenging fish to care for, but are well worth the effort. They must have a variety of foods including live, and are sensitive to disease and poor water conditions._

Above info is from mongabay.com,
http://www.mongabay.com/fish/discus.htm

Here is a few of my pics,




























*My Digital Gallery*

[This message was edited by Jay Luto on Tue September 16 2003 at 07:53 AM.]

[This message was edited by ekim on Tue October 14 2003 at 07:21 PM.]


----------



## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Just beautiful, Mike, thanks so much for all that great information! How have you found your discus get along in your planted tanks? How often do you find it necessary to do water changes in a community setting?

http://www.wheelpost.com


----------



## anonapersona (Mar 11, 2004)

How does one find a discus from SE Asia, raised in moderately hard, alkaline waters (like mine!)


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Thanks Mike! I'll have to post pics of mine soon...they're coming in today.


----------



## Guest (Sep 4, 2003)

Mike,

Great information and pictures. I can't wait to see some updates on your tank







.

BTW.
As per Roger's comments and mine as well, can you add title of the article, link to the original and maybe place entire article in brackets.

Thanks


----------



## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

hi, i like the article, but have a couple of changes to make to the info provided.

1. only good discus have the good classic round shape. many available are not round, and only an experienced eye can tell at a young age whether it is possible to grow a fish out of it's problems with shape. imo, any discus that is not round should not be bred, unless it can be determined that this is not a genetic problem but one of poor raising. the only way to know is to observe if the babies are round when grown out properly.

2.discus can be raised and actually do better in harder water. discus are not necessarily soft water fish unless you are breeding them. i have bought good fish from the water they were raised in, gh 25, kh 18, ph 8.4. however the water must be clean.

3. discus should not be avoided if you are using bright lighting. if you keep them in darkened conditions and throw big lights on, they will surely not be happy for a while, but if you raise them in bright light, they will be quite fine with it. adult discus should not be avoided for this reason in your planted tank.

4. if you provide discus with hiding places, they will often spend their entire day hiding. it is therefore suggested that you keep them in a more openly planted tank and leave a place open where they can browse the sand. their natural method of grazing is to blow the sand for crustaceans much of the time.

5. live food is the best thing for discus provided that you can ensure that it is clean and free of parasites and esp viral and bacterial agents. i almost never feed my discus live food, providing them with a diet consisting of my own beefheart mix (shrimp, fish etc) frozen bloodworms, and dry foods. formula 1 flake is an esp good product for discus. worms can often be considered clean if grown in clean conditions, and there is no better food for them imo. i would NEVER feed my discus live tubifex or live bloodworms. 

5. discus are 'schooling cichlids' and are best kept in the largest group possible. imo, a group smaller than 6 is only a bunch of individuals, not a school. they can be very agressive towards each other, but in a larger group the schooling mentality kicks in, and larger fish will actually separate pestering fish. this picking behaviour tends to be less as they get older. small fish can be relentless towards the smallest fish, often runting it or killing it.

i would not put juvenile discus into a planted tank, i prefer to keep them in BB tanks till they are fully mature. small discus are particularly susceptible to intestinal flagellates, and if there is gravel or sand on the bottom, it is often impossible to catch until the fish has stopped eating. these are passed from fish to fish from their feces. also, i believe that you should try and grow out the biggest fish possible, and a bb tank is the best way to do this.

imo, discus are fish for the advanced fishkeeper, and the tank must be ammonia and nitrate free, or problems will hit fast. all stress factors should be kept to a minimum, and they esp must be the boss of their tanks. good tankmates include catfish of many types, tetras and other smaller cichlids.

rick


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Vicki,
Thanks, I find discus are much darker in color in a planted tank, maybe the try to blend in with the back ground (black)!
The pics of the "golden head ghost" are almost pure white in a BB tank with a light blue background! Also "pigeon bloods" seem to pepper a lot in a planted tank... no peppering in a BB tank! You can probably see what i'm getting at, but I won't say it here!!








In a planted community tank I only do 50% WC a week, but in BB tanks I do 50% daily.

anonapersona, 
discus are not really picking about there water, but it *must be consistent*!

Phil, 
I just saw your email, they are beauties!! 
I wish I had them!!

Jay, 
Thanks, soon i'll take some updated photos!
also edited original post!

aspen,
I agree with everything you said.
I was going to give my opinion as well but didn't have time... you pretty much summed it up though!

I have learned the hard way about raising disucs... they must be raised in a BB tank for at least 6-12 months and feed 4-6 times a day IMO!

I don't totally agree with there comments on breeding, but i guess spawning and raising the fry are totally different things!

I've never had any other fish that has spawned so much and so easily!
I have 2 different pairs that spawn weekly for the last 6 months, each pair spawns every 6 days, however they never last much more than 30 hrs, the parents always eating them in my case.
I had the same results in both planted and BB tanks. I must admit i'm not really trying to breed them though as I don't have near enough time or space to raise them!

Thanks

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Thanks Mike...

If you want fish like them email Paul Jasek

[email protected]

He gets his fish from some of the best importers in this part of the world. My babies are a testament to that!


----------



## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Well, for crying out loud, Phil--let's see some pictures!!!

http://www.wheelpost.com


----------



## imported_jules (Oct 10, 2003)

Firstly I am glad to find someone who keeps Discus in Ottawa!! May I ask where do you buy your Discus? Your article is very informative. I can't get into your photo gallery though.

thank you.


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Hey jules,
welcome to the board!
I buy most of my discus from bigal's, it's not very often they have nice healthy ones though!
There is actually a small discus breeder here though, just found out myself!

Thanks for the info about the link in my sig... 
try it now, does that work?

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## imported_jules (Oct 10, 2003)

I checked out your photos - what is the beautiful Discus on the right hand side? Your tanks are very nice-love the aquascaping.
We started our 55 gallon up again a few months ago. At first we thought community, but now we are heading towards Discus. Right now we have 8 juvies. We purchased 6 from the LFS and 2 from the breeder here in Ottawa. We have 1 Cobalt, 1 Red SS, 1 Blue SS, 1 Red Turq., 1 Blue Diamond, 1 Golden and 2 Pigeons. One pigeon is a little homely guy who I know will not grow. Everyone else is doing well. I am using partially well water, distilled and spring water. My well water is too hard at 21 GH. PH is fine. We are thoroughly enjoying the hobby!!


----------



## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

The picture on the right hand side is a ghost discus.

72 Gal, 3 WPG PC 10 hour, pressurize co2 /w controller 3 bps, Fluval 404, ph 6.75
A Canadian's Plant Traders website


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

jules,
thanks, 
the discus is a "golden head ghost".
Where in ottawa are you, because my water is 0 GH and 1 KH!

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## imported_jules (Oct 10, 2003)

I am 25 minutes southeast of Ottawa right on the Boundary of the City of Ottawa.
How many Discus are you keeping? What ages are they?


----------



## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Would a mated pair do well alone? Or would they also need to be in a group? I mean, aren't they too busy thinking about spawing to bother with the group..? And is a Wet/Dry Filter the best deal for Discus, or would a fluidized bed be better(this is for a planted tank)? Nice pics by the way...!


----------



## 5380 (Jun 16, 2005)

Discus people often say that zeroing nitrate is essential for growth. Part of the reason for so many water changes. Breeding pairs are normally kept away from tankmates because they will be aggressive with fry. I have seen them in as little as 29g. I have seen is on occassion one will be a target of too much aggression, messed up eyes on a couple females.

ekim, what do you do to regenerate your water?


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Raul-7,
Yes a mated pair should be fine alone,
however if they are not a pair there will be to much bullying for the other fish to stand.
I would use the wet/dry.

Igrowroots,
I heat and aerate the water for 24hrs, then add some dechlorinator. I have a pump that pumps the water into the tank.

Regards,
Mike Morrissey

---------------
*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

I am keeping a breeding pair with 3 other discus in the 75 gallon. Bullying in my tank doesn't seem to be a problem.

At first the pair was somewhat aggressive when it comes to eating and spawning time; but with the increase plant load, the discus didn't have a place to spawn (lower aggressiveness).

The discus begin to share the food with each other after a couple months acclaimtization. All of them get a belly full of beefheart from a piece of 1.5" by 1" beefheart 3-5 mm thick without any bullying involve. The picture in the plant gallery was taken after their night meal.

It is fairly hard to grow discus in a planted tank. I have to grind the beefheart to a fine degree for ease of consumption. However, when I do that, a lot of the really small pieces get carry all over the place in the current and trap between plants.

Discus growth will be stunt if they are fed only on bloodworms. There is not enough protein in bloodworms.

It is fairly noticeable in the photo. The snakeskin are 1 year 3-5 months old, while the pigeon is about 6-8 months old. They are similar in size.

72 Gal, 3 WPG PC 12 hour, pressurize co2 /w controller 3 bps, Fluval 404, ph 6.8
A Canadian's Plant Traders website


----------



## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

---------------------------
My 75 Gallon

Aquabay


----------



## skylsdale (Jun 2, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> only good discus have the good classic round shape. many available are not round, and only an experienced eye can tell at a young age whether it is possible to grow a fish out of it's problems with shape. imo, any discus that is not round should not be bred, unless it can be determined that this is not a genetic problem but one of poor raising. the only way to know is to observe if the babies are round when grown out properly.


Actually, I would say anything other than wild color forms of discus should not be bred. All those other color forms might as well be blood parrots, IMO.


----------

