# Question about Ludwigia sp. "Pantanal"



## Pat Bowerman (Mar 18, 2004)

I have this plant growing in my tank along with Eusteralis Stellata and Ludwigia "Cuba". The Pantanal flourished for a few weeks and was looking great, but lately it has started this habit of developing a shriveled, crippled looking, main growing tip and developing side shoots. The side shoots look perfectly normal. Anybody else had this happen? Could this possibly be caused by a shortage of nitrate? 

This hasn't happened with the "Cuba", and it is growing intermingled with the "Pantanal". The Eusteralis Stellata seems incapable of growing more than about 8" without going through this same sort of phase.


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

It's probably a shortage of traces or something similar. I use a mixture of substrate and liquid fertilizers and when I see the cuba or stellata doing this I know it's time to add more tabs to the substrate. So far it has worked well for me. Don't know about the pantanal, you'd have to send me some to try ;-) (hint hint.....)

Hope that helps
Giancarlo Podio


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

Could we learn a little about your dosing regime? 

Also, dosing frequency would be very helpful. It has been shown that Pogostemon stellata stunts when nutrients are dosed infrequently in large doses (say 20ppm NO3 once a week).

Carlos


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## Pat Bowerman (Mar 18, 2004)

*Here's a little more info*

Sorry, I should've included this info earlier

Tank vitals:75 g tank, 300 watts of light, pressurized CO2

I've always been a PMDD guy, but a few months back, I decided to give the Tom Barr method a try. All in all, I'd have to say that my plants have never looked better. However, this is the first time that I've ever tried to grow Ludwigia Sp. "Pantanal".

I dose twice a week with the following fertilizers. KNO3, MgSO4, Fleet Enema, and a Trace Element mix. Each of those is mixed in a distilled water solution so they are dosed in a liquid form.

The Pantanal got nice and red before it stunted, and I have read that might be caused by running the tank low on nitrates, so I did a nitrate test. Sure enough, my LaMotte test kit barely detected any nitrates at all. That is why I thought I might have stunted the plants by letting the nitrates bottom out.

So, do you think I should try a daily dosing regimen instead of my usual twice a week?


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

You have obviously tried bringing your nitrates back up without success correct? If not that's what I would do first. I too prefer daily doses compared to weekly.

Giancarlo Podio


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## Jeff Kropp (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: Here's a little more info*



Pat Bowerman said:


> I dose twice a week with the following fertilizers. KNO3, MgSO4, Fleet Enema, and a Trace Element mix. Each of those is mixed in a distilled water solution so they are dosed in a liquid form.


What is your calculated ppm for each dose? In particular, what is your N/P ratio? If you have induced an N crash then your P dose may be too large.

Did you have this same problem with E. stellata while practicing your previous supplementation routine? What percentage of stems of a given species are affected? Have you grown them without stunting before?
___
Jeff


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## Pat Bowerman (Mar 18, 2004)

*I'll get the exact doses for you when I get home,..*

I put labels on each of the chemicals.



> Did you have this same problem with E. stellata while practicing your previous supplementation routine? What percentage of stems of a given species are affected? Have you grown them without stunting before?


Around the first of June, I bought all 3 of these plants at the same time, and this is my first attempt at growing them. Keep in mind that the "Cuba" looks good.

I'd say the Eusteralis Stellata is 100% affected. It grows great for about 8" then it stops growing and starts branching. On the plus side, I started out with about 3 stems and I now probably have 25. On page 292, Kasselman mentions this "peculiar behavior", but offers no explanation for it. I had accepted that this might be "normal" for this particular plant. Have you found otherwise? A side note here: Everytime that I've topped the Eusteralis Stellata and replanted the tops, the tips have never grown without branching first.

The Pantanal did not do this until a few weeks ago. The plants grew straight and looked terrific. Again, I only had a few stems to begin with, and now I'm probably up to 9-10 stems. However the plant definitely looks better when it doesn't have a stunted growth tip, so even though it's helped me to propagate the plant, I'd like to find and fix whatever the problem might be.

I'll try to post a pic tonight if I have time.


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

*Re: I'll get the exact doses for you when I get home,..*



Pat Bowerman said:


> I'd say the Eusteralis Stellata is 100% affected. It grows great for about 8" then it stops growing and starts branching. On the plus side, I started out with about 3 stems and I now probably have 25. On page 292, Kasselman mentions this "peculiar behavior", but offers no explanation for it. I had accepted that this might be "normal" for this particular plant. Have you found otherwise? A side note here: Everytime that I've topped the Eusteralis Stellata and replanted the tops, the tips have never grown without branching first.


This is quite normal for stellata, 80% of the time I replant the tips it will branch out. They do however all branch out at the same time, regardless of being individual stems/plants. So the possibility that nutrient levels may be causing it to branch is likely. Even when they branch without having been replanted they seem to all do it at the same time. I can tell you for sure that when I replace the tabs under this plant it grows like crazy without branching but I no longer worry about it when it starts to branch again. The difference between stunted growth and the weird way this plant branches out is slim, they both look the same however new growth when stunted is usually very small or in bad health.

Giancarlo Podio


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## Pat Bowerman (Mar 18, 2004)

*Here are a couple of Pantanal pics....*

You can see a little of the burned tips in the first pic, and how it has branched and resumed normal growth in the 2nd photo.


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## Pat Bowerman (Mar 18, 2004)

*Here's the E. Stellata....*

This is one stem that I replanted.


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

My Cuba does the same when it's time to replace the tabs. At one stage the plant looked terrible, I thought I was going to loose it:










I placed some extra tabs under it and it came back to life:










There's nothing to say that liquid ferts alone won't fix the problem but my routine has grown somewhat dependant on substrate fertilization, the effects are quite obvious with several of my plants when the tabs run out. It's worth a try.

Hope that helps
Giancarlo Podio


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## Pat Bowerman (Mar 18, 2004)

*What kind of tabs do you use?*

I just might give it a try.

BTW, I forgot to write the dilution ratio of the Fleet enema in my distilled water. My label simply read: 3ml per 10 gallons. Before anybody panics, that's not pure Fleet. I've diluted it by mixing it with distilled water for easier dosing. I just wish I had written down the dilution ratio.

Now, can anybody tell me why the fertilator says I need 23 teaspoons of MgSO4 for my 75 gallon?


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## Error (Apr 16, 2004)

Giancarlo,

What type of root tabs are you using?


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## Pat Bowerman (Mar 18, 2004)

*Folllow-up on the Eusteralis Stellata "stunting"*

For about the last 2 weeks, I've been trying a slightly altered dosing regimen. I wanted to see if the reason the Pantanal was stunting was because the nitrates were bottoming out, so I decided to up the KNO3 dosage and cut back on the Fleet Enema. (reducing phosphates) The Pantanal definitely looks better (although a few plants are still stunted) , but the most dramatic improvement has been in the Eusteralis Stellata. The curious stunting behavior, that so many people experience with this plant, has almost completely stopped. I now have some stems of this plant that are 18-20" long with no stunting. The down side is that the E. Stellata now appears less red than before, but it's still a beautiful plant.

Let me add that, I also changed one more thing about my dosing routine. I'm now adding the nutrients in smaller, daily doses. Someone else had suggested that larger, less frequent nutrient doses might be linked to the stunting habit that most people experience with this plant.


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## m.lemay (Jan 9, 2005)

I'm reviving this thread because I'm having some stunting problems with my E. stellata. This stuff was growing great when I neglected the tank. LOL

I've been dosing using EI and this stuff has just stunted and branches out like everyone else describes here. It also loses its bright green color and goes to sort of a brownish green then it sends up new shoots but those only last a while before they stunt also. Really bizarre behavior.

this has happened since I upped my wattage from 2.9 wpg to 4.4 wpg. Increased ferts as per EI.
NO3=15ppm
PO4=1.5ppm
8mls/day flourish
CO2=35-40ppm

Allthe other plants are growing like crazy. Do you suppose that its adapting to the new parameters. I must say that I was having problems keeping NO3 steady at first with the new increased lighting, Do you suppose this may be part of it?

Do you think substrate tabs will help?

Thanks 
Marcel


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