# NASH-May-27 Aquascaping @ Rudy's



## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

This past Friday NASH was at Rudalfo's house to help set up his new tank. The treasurer of the club had gotten a 60+gal custom-made, rim-less tank. Luis Navarro, the NASH president, was to design the aquascape of the tank. Here are some of the photos we took to show how the tank was set up.

Lots of woods to choose from...








Luis making a quick survey to see what he has to work with...








And today's patient is...








HC meticulously wrapped in tray, narrow fern tied to stones, and the choice of woods...








Luis trying to get a feel of how the woods would look like in different positions...








Adding the Power Sand special...








Sprinkling some Tourmaline...








Finally adding the Amazonia substrate...








Luis carefully leveling the substrate while Rudy looks patiently on...








Putting in the woods...








Tying the moss to the woods...








Keeping the ferns moisturized...








The narrow-leaf fern and the moss positioned on the woods...








The boss picking out HC from the tray held by his ever so helpful servant, Thanh, while Rudy watches on








HC firmly placed into the substrate...








Luis placing the stem plants in the back of the tank...








Voila, it's DONE!!!

























***I will periodically post the tank's progress. A special thanks to Rudy and his wife for having us over at his house. The dinner was great!


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## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

Wow, beautiful layout. Where do you guys find these pieces of wood? Looking forward to seeing the tank progress


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## Plattykins (Apr 3, 2005)

He sure makes it look easy, but I can see a lot of care is taken every step of the way, with a lot of attention to detail. Verrry nice! How much time was required from start to finish?


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Awesome, thanks for sharing. Can't wait to see the progression of the tank.

_What type of fish will be in this tank?_


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## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

Bavarian3, I believe the guys got their woods from Manzanita which is an on-line store that lets you pick which wood piece you want or you can get a randomly assorted pack. And I think for the number of woods and the variety you get the price is hard to match. Pleast ask Luis, Rudy, or Thanh for more detail. I think they should be writing something about it in this thread soon.

Plattykins, you're right! We started at 5pm and by the time everything was finished it was around 9pm. So it wasn't as long as I thought it would be but laborious nevertheless. 

trenac, I will post new pictures in about 1-2 weeks so be sure to check back. As for the fish, I will ask Rudy about it.


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## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

Paul Higashikawa said:


> Bavarian3, I believe the guys got their woods from Manzanita which is an on-line store that lets you pick which wood piece you want or you can get a randomly assorted pack. And I think for the number of woods and the variety you get the price is hard to match. Pleast ask Luis, Rudy, or Thanh for more detail. I think they should be writing something about it in this thread soon.
> 
> Plattykins, you're right! We started at 5pm and by the time everything was finished it was around 9pm. So it wasn't as long as I thought it would be but laborious nevertheless.
> 
> trenac, I will post new pictures in about 1-2 weeks so be sure to check back. As for the fish, I will ask Rudy about it.


manzanita huh, i must check this out..my tank is waiting on some driftwood to start the new aquascape but i cant find anything anywhere local so i have to order it somewhere.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

I thought that wood looked familiar. www.manzanita.com Talk to Rich, he is terrific. I and my club, NEAPS ordered from him receintly and were not dissapointed! Wood seems to take only a couple weeks to really sink good.

Very nice layout and execution. Will Luiz be coming by periodically to do the maintance?

How was the HC dealt with? It almost seems like it is attached to stones or something. I always end up planting it like glosso or marsilea, individual stems about every .5"-1" Very tedious and usually takes me seveal days of off and on work to plant a forground. This way looks much easier, but how fast does it will in?

On an aquascaping note, I want everyone to notice how the Anubias and Microsoruim are used... triangle positioning using 3 plants. Triangle layout of the wood with 3 strong elements for each side. I do wonder how the front pointing branch in the center will look. Hopefully the moss will soften its appearance and I am sure the stems behind it will soften its look by adding vertical elements/weight behind it.

Beautiful!


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## John P. (Nov 24, 2004)

dennis said:


> How was the HC dealt with? It almost seems like it is attached to stones or something. I always end up planting it like glosso or marsilea, individual stems about every .5"-1" Very tedious and usually takes me seveal days of off and on work to plant a forground. This way looks much easier, but how fast does it will in?


I plant HC the same way as you, Dennis. It fills in more quickly this way, and spreads out more flatly.


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## omega (Apr 1, 2004)

I would like to personally volunteer my house as a place for someone to come with free substrate, plants, woods, etc. and aquascape. I will cook or at least microwave you all some hotdogs. :mrgreen:

But seriously, I don't like the center piece of wood sticking out at me.


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## GulfCoastDiscus (Feb 14, 2005)

Nice.  I gotta see this tank in person.


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## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

dennis said:
 

> I thought that wood looked familiar. www.manzanita.com Talk to Rich, he is terrific. I and my club, NEAPS ordered from him receintly and were not dissapointed! Wood seems to take only a couple weeks to really sink good.
> Beautiful!


awesome, looks like i may order from em first thing tuesday.


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## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

Dennis, the HC was propagated by Luis. I think he painstakingly sorted them into individual bunches. This way, you can cover a larger area plus the growth will be more apparent once they root out. Basically, they are ideal for planting in a large tank. 


Dan, ya gotta see it in person! BTW, great website with all the discus! Can't wait to see them also in person at the next NASH meeting


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## GulfCoastDiscus (Feb 14, 2005)

Thank you Paul. I'm getting my house ready for the crawfish boil.:smile: 


Looking forward to it.

dan


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## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

Dan, if you need any help with anything just let us know!


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## Navarro (Feb 12, 2004)

Hello again I want to say that the way the Hc was planted has been done many times before and it works just fine. Also the I don't think about propagating or making the plant grow fast. The way you see it is the best way I know to make the tank look good in a short period of time (aquascaping is first for me). I can't even think about planting two different plants in shape and in nature the same way, that's out of the question for me.
As for the driftwood is not the very best I ever work with to be honest but I guess I can't get picky on this matter since there is almost none available the layout is too young to be analyzed, give it time and I am sure that not all of you will be disappointed.
Regards,
Luis


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## TNguyen (Mar 20, 2005)

Paul, thanks for the photo. Another great scape Luis. I personally like it a lot. Definitely like to see how it turn out in about a month or so.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Sorry Luis,
I just can't tell from the photo how it is prepared and planted. Was it a floating, or already rooted section that was removed from a grow out tank? How do you plant that big clump in one shot, small garden trowel It looks like an wonderful technique that is much faster than my way of individual stems. I am not knocking your way, honestly I am curious. Is planted in bunches like one would plant H micranthemoides, hairgrass or Micranthemum; if so, how long are the "stems"?


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## Navarro (Feb 12, 2004)

Please, Dennis nothing to be sorry about! The plants came out of another tank indeed so what I do is just cut them in Small squares and planted just the way you see it. If the plant is not disturbed it should grow fast and even.
The stem plants we used where not the very best either so it will take a couple more days to look better.
Luis


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## STAANA (Oct 11, 2004)

*Nash Layout*

Luis, Paul, and Thanh, Thanks for helping out with the layout and posting to APC. For those interested at the progress of the tank, I saw new growth
at the tips of the stem plants yesterday. ADA substrate system does work!
Dan, you are always welcome at my house.


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## mlfishman (Apr 4, 2005)

*hhmmm...*

I dont mean to rain on anyone's parade, because it is a nice layout, but does it seem like a lot of people are setting up the exact same tank with similar plants and running back the same centered brancy wood aquascape over and over and over. When you think of all the possiblities of the way a tank could be laid out, from an artistic sense, i don't understand sometimes why everyone lays out a tank in a similar style and then everyone else goes, wow nice wood work, nice layout, nice choice of plants. There should be a certain amount of originality, and I just feel that a lot of aquascapes around here look more similar then they should. Again, I am fairly new on here, and Luis has some banging tanks, so I am not trying to insult him or take anything away from him. But I cant help but get the sense that many on here are walking the same path instead of finding their own. But hey, what do I know.....


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## STAANA (Oct 11, 2004)

mlfishman, 
One of the reasons you see the same plants being used more often could be because those plants happen to be the newest ones and hobbyists are still trying to experiment on the best way to grow it. The challenge of growing new plants is one of the most exciting factor of this hobby.
With regards to layout, when you have set up enough tanks or gathered enough experience, it would be natural for that person to acquire or develope a certain style - his personal style. I think the reason why you see so much similarity is that the layouts we see - at least in this forum - are from the same few individuals who have gained the artistic sense you mentioned from years of experience and are influencing the style of those who are new to the hobby.
Rudy


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## mlfishman (Apr 4, 2005)

*re...*

This makes sense. As I mentioned earlier, I am fairly new to the forum, and fairly new to aquascaping (At least compared to some of the guys in here). I wasnt trying to take anything away from anyone, the tank was great. I was just curious why I was seeing the same plants used alot lately, in a similar fashion.


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## mlfishman (Apr 4, 2005)

*also*

And I also dont understand why the person who owned the tank would let someone else aquascape it. Wouldnt a person want to aquascape their own tank? I dont get it....


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## TNguyen (Mar 20, 2005)

mlfishman said:


> And I also dont understand why the person who owned the tank would let someone else aquascape it. Wouldnt a person want to aquascape their own tank? I dont get it....


I don't see anything wrong with that. Just because someone set it up doesn't mean you can't learn or pick up a few pointer here and there. Sure everyone have different taste. I have see Luis tanks personally and very much like his setup and scape. Why not learn it from someone who been doing this for a long time now.

Thanh


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## GulfCoastDiscus (Feb 14, 2005)

I agree Thanh.

I myself lacks the know how in setting up a planted tank. I would greatly appreciate anyone showing me how. Then later on if you decide to change things then you will have the knowledge to do it right. 
As you all know this hobby can be very expensive. To have a mentor in this hobby is priceless. 
Dan


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## Jdinh04 (Oct 7, 2004)

Aquascape is awesome, although it those kinds of scape are very similar to amano's scape. "Branching wood, centered, etc ..."


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## Navarro (Feb 12, 2004)

Mr. Mlfishman you do not insult me nor you take anything away from me. Please feel free to express your self.
I Just want to say this one thing. I follow a technique imposed by Mr. Amano because I like it and I understand it, therefore I enjoy it.
If you can't understand why a friend help another well I am sorry! We have a club called the Nature aquarium society of Houston and Aquascaping Nature Aquariums is what we are all about. I really don't understand when you say the same over and over again or is it the technique you are talking about?
Regards,
Luis


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## mlfishman (Apr 4, 2005)

*same style*

There is nothing wrong with helping out friends and I see that you guys are in a club together. I know, personally, that I would want to have scaped my own tank myself. I was just curious why someone would want someone else do the entire tank for him. I could see just giving some pointers. I also realize now that the style tank you were doing was a certain style (amano-esque) aquascape. I was wondering why everyone was into the branchy centered wood, island type aquascape, that I have been seeing a lot of lately. I also noticed alot of the same plants being used by various people, and someone made me aware that these are some of the newer, "hot" plants used in aquascaping right now. As I mentioned earlier, I am fairly new to aquascaping and am not yet on the up and up as to what is hot and what is not. By the way, Mr. Navarro, I think some of your work is sick. I saw some pictures of your home and office tanks and I am jealous of both your skills and your tanks. thanks.


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## Jdinh04 (Oct 7, 2004)

Oh by the way, I have a few questions of this scape.

1.) Are the plants that are used are good for starting out a planted tank?

2.) What kind of lighting is there?

3.) Where was the plants purchased from? They look "very" healthy.

4.) How were those plants attached to the wood? Black thread?


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## STAANA (Oct 11, 2004)

In my opinion, any aquatic plant is suited for a planted tank as long as you plant enough of it from the start to out-compete the algae for nutrients.

I am using 4 96 watts PC bulbs 67,000K.

The plants were from the various members of NASH (Nature Aquascaping Society of Houston).

Just regular sewing thread. I think green would have blended better, but that's what we have on hand. 

BTW, many thanks to all NASH members for making this aquascape possible,
and also to the Senske brothers of ADG - Mike and Jeff (both NASH members)for their generous support of our club.
Rudy


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## Jdinh04 (Oct 7, 2004)

I see, I think one thing you may have forgotten to get is a background? yes, no?

Good luck with the tank Stanna, its amazing!


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## neilw (Nov 20, 2004)

mlfishman said:


> There is nothing wrong with helping out friends and I see that you guys are in a club together. I know, personally, that I would want to have scaped my own tank myself. I was just curious why someone would want someone else do the entire tank for him. I could see just giving some pointers. I also realize now that the style tank you were doing was a certain style (amano-esque) aquascape. I was wondering why everyone was into the branchy centered wood, island type aquascape, that I have been seeing a lot of lately. I also noticed alot of the same plants being used by various people, and someone made me aware that these are some of the newer, "hot" plants used in aquascaping right now. As I mentioned earlier, I am fairly new to aquascaping and am not yet on the up and up as to what is hot and what is not. By the way, Mr. Navarro, I think some of your work is sick. I saw some pictures of your home and office tanks and I am jealous of both your skills and your tanks. thanks.


I just wanted to say I agree with your comments on this tank, technically it's very good but creatively it's a bit derivative. It seems to be a common aquascape, although I haven't checked this place in a while I think it's very similar to the ADG - (ADA) tank, which in turn is basically just a copy of the tank Amano does on page 31 of Aquarium Plant Paradise. Maybe it's just me but it seems like people are taking a little too much credit for these aquascapes, the debt to Amano as far as planted tank aquascaping is huge, and it should be taken into account as far as I'm concerned. This whole forum seems a bit sycophantic and has far too much back slapping for my liking. I like looking at the pictures though...just my opinion.

But I didn't want you to think you had said something wrong because you haven't you've said exactly what I was thinking.


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## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

"Maybe it's just me but it seems like people are taking a little too much credit for these aquascapes, the debt to Amano as far as planted tank aquascaping is huge, and it should be taken into account as far as I'm concerned. This whole forum seems a bit sycophantic and has far too much back slapping for my liking."

neilw, with all due respect, sir, I didn't post this tank's pictures as a way of showing that it is okay to copy or imitate Mr.Amano's style if you had this perception. On the contrary, it is to show others how we set up the tank; its progress. Now, whether you find the artistic aspect of the tank to your liking is totally a matter of your personal preference. However, I feel that we weren't intentionally trying to reproduce Amano's work in any way. To me, it is more of a style; a school of artistic impression if you will. There will always be similar elements in order to show features unique to that particular school's style-the Nature style or the Nature Amano style if you want to get technical. Just as Mr.Navarro himself said, he happens to like and enjoy the Nature style very much and appreciates Takashi Amano's works. For me, I never thought any of Mr.Navarro's tanks look like Mr.Amano's tanks. They are both Nature aquarium style and are both beautiful to watch. To me, that is the bottom line.

By setting up this tank we simply wanted to show others how a beautiful Nature aquarium can be done, using ADA products as well as many easy-to obtain plants, such as Anubias nana, narrow fern, and Hemianthus callitrichoides.

Lastly, did we as the people of "This whole forum" take too much credit and like to flatter ourselves?! I totally don't get it and I totally don't agree with this statement. We never complimented ourselves for setting up this tank. We merely thanked one another for taking the time to help a friend setting this tank up.


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## dmartin72 (Oct 9, 2004)

Any updates? I'm interested to see the growth rate.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

The aquascaping forum is *NOT* for backslapping. See here for more about that. APC is a place where opinions are free and welcomed; criticisms/ critique are very encouraged. Please feel free to share your comments, whether positive or negative, but please back up your criticisms. If you don't like a layout please be specific.

There are very few of us here who are really willing to tear a tank apart. This extra step is done by those of us who really care about the asthetic part of the hobby and want to inspire, encourage others to improve. Saddly being thourough, providing examples and well thoughout critique takes time. I often spend half an hour making my first reply about a layout but I am often very busy and hurried so I only make critique comments if they are very obvious or if I have the extra time to invest. If I don't comment on a layout its not because of my personal opinion of it, but rather I don't feel I have the time to do the layout and its creator justice by being thorough and informative.

At APC, aquascaping critique is not, should not and* will* not be "if you don't have somehting nice to say......"; rather, at APC aquscaping critique should be "if you only have something nice to say then don't bother" There is nothing wrong with personal opinions, whether good or bad, but either way, please back up your statments. Don't say something is pretty (or ugly) say _why_!


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## Navarro (Feb 12, 2004)

Maybe it's just me but it seems like people are taking a little too much credit for these aquascapes, the debt to Amano as far as planted tank aquascaping is huge, and it should be taken into account as far as I'm concerned. 
Mr. Neilw is this supposed to be me? if yes, I will say that I will never take any credit that don't belong to me! the only reason I like Aquascaping is because I find it fun and I just love it, but taking credit, come on! just take a look of any of the ADA contest book you will find 1000 look a likes if this is the way you look at the designs. Mr Amano is a strong influence in many and speaking for my self I wish not to take much credit of anything, this is just a hobby to me. 
I will no longer post in this topic since is beginning to get out of hand and I just don't like to argue about something irrelevant.
I am deeply sorry you feel this way Sr. but we where just trying to share as a club one activity we had.


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## MiamiAG (Jan 13, 2004)

neilw said:


> This whole forum seems a bit sycophantic and has far too much back slapping for my liking. I like looking at the pictures though...just my opinion.


Hi,

Sorry to interrupt this thread with an aside, but I wanted to comment on this point.

While the poster is certainly welcomed to post his opinion, it is appreciated, and is also free to form his own opinion, I have heard this point just a few too many times lately. Since when has APC been known as sycophantic? Sycophantic of what?

It may not be related at all, but someone posted something to this effect in another forum and it seems to have been taken as gospel. Quite frankly, this is just plain wrong.

Takashi Amano is credited with popularizing the Nature Aquarium style. There is nothing wrong with setting up an aquarium following the Nature Aquarium style (or the Dutch style or any other style). In fact, it is by imitating well done aquascapes (of any style) that one learns to aquascape. This is how all artists learn the craft. Please don't demean folks for attempting to learn an art by following a style or copying a master.

Additionally, one should take "credit" for any aquarium they set up. If I set up a Nature Aquarium styled tank, you bet I will take credit for doing it. However, I am not going to go around saying that I've created my own style. I don't think anyone here has done that.

Lastly, folks, APC is more than pretty pictures. Take the time and I'm sure you'll be surprised at the amount of substance and knowledge that resides with us.

Thanks and sorry for the off-topic post.


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## Praxx42 (Mar 4, 2005)

dennis said:


> There are very few of us here who are really willing to tear a tank apart.


Hey, I'm all over that... it's just the "putting back together" that throws me.


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## jsenske (Mar 15, 2004)

I must say neilw has a point about my tank looking like p.31 of Aquarium Plant Paradise! I have not cracked open that book in years- and when I did just now...well the hardscape is in fact very similar. 
I must confess I love Amano's style and do take design cues from him. I think I have done a tank or two that were not wholly derivative of Amano, but I have not become skilled enough yet to truly break ground on a new style. 

I'll bet neilw is doing some really innovative layouts. I'd love to see them sometime- I could (obviously) use the inspiration!


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## neilw (Nov 20, 2004)

Well thanks for the sarcastic reply! But thats fine, I'll will say truthfully I'm nowhere near as good an aquascaper as you, or any of the other guys here, seriously some of these tanks are incredible and I really mean that. And I accept the fact I can't create anything as good. 

I was just posting my opinion as this is a discussion board, it doesn't really matter because I don't really participate here, but I've been honest and I've said whats on my mind. I'm sorry if it's annoyed you guys.


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

"Stay on target....stay on target!" 
-Jak Porkins circa A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.


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## MiamiAG (Jan 13, 2004)

Neilw,

I don't want this to turn into a flame thread so I'll end it here. I am sorry you don't participate here. Perhaps you can PM me and give me your opinion as to why you don't?

We really do try to be a forum for free (and opposing) points of view. So, I do very much appreciate your opinion. 

However, that being said, what do you expect when you use a word like "sycophant"? Perhaps you didn't mean it to be insulting but that is how it came across so you need to expect a little defensive reaction.

In any event, good luck with your endeavors and I do hope to discuss our hobby with you in the future.


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