# Continuous Water Change System



## hoppycalif

On another thread


> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/do-it-yourself/28826-let-us-see-your-water-change-3.html


we have been discussing our water change systems, and Brian's (bpimm) system aroused my interest in applying a similar system to my 45 gallon tank, which some day I will get set up. Like Brian, my tank has a drilled overflow hole in the upper right back corner, so I can install an overflow as he did. But, I have to use city water, which may have chloramine in it. My idea to "autodose" Prime is to use a sealed two gallon holding container, where I would dose about 10 times the amount of Prime needed for the two gallons of new water. Then as that water goes to the tank, incoming water would dilute what is left in the holding container, and in 24 hours it would be just about what is needed just for 2 gallons, at which time I add another slug of Prime. Because the holding container would be sealed, the incoming water would slightly pressurize it driving water up to the aquarium rim to drip into the aquarium, and any excess would overflow thru the drilled hole overflow pipe.

An added advantage of the holding tank is that the incoming water has to cross my very hot second floor deck to get to my aquarium, so it will be hot water when it gets to the holding tank. But, it will have a chance to cool off before going into the aquarium. In the winter, the opposite will happen.

By my calculations if I run incoming water at about 4 drops per second I will have replaced half of the water in the aquarium in a week - perfect for EI dosing.

Am I overlooking anything here? Has anyone else tried the holding container idea, and dosed Prime like that? What disaster awaits me????


----------



## JERP

If you're chloramine remover goes stale, your tank is done for. You mihgt get away with adding the dechlor to your fert dosing mix.


----------



## bpimm

From another thread,



Naja002 said:


> Carbon filters do not remove chloramines. "Super-Activated" carbon will, but it breaks it down into chlorine and ammonia---the ammonia remains free....


Let me start out by saying I am no chemist or biologist and my planted tank knowledge is dated so this idea comes from a non scientific, rusty brain so correct me where I'm wrong, and forgive me if I'm way out in left field picking daises.

If I understand this right the only output after a "Super-Activated" carbon filter would be ammonia.

Ammonia below 7.0 PH is in the form of ammonium.
Ammonium is the preferred form of nitrogen for plants.

depending on the quantity of ammonia released from the breakdown of the chloramines wouldn't this just be a supplemental source of ferts for the plants, assuming that the levels are low and the PH is maintained below 7.0?

Brian


----------



## bpimm

I found a couple articles that tend to support my theory.

This one even mentions the plants can handle the ammonia

skepticalaquarist.com

heavy testing for reef keepers shows that carbon does remove most of the chloramine

http://www.reefkeeping.com


----------



## hoppycalif

The chloramine issue isn't an easy one to get a handle on. For a continuous water change system the flow rate involved is so low it appears that a carbon filter would be effective. But, when I read about the various carbon filters available I can't determine how well they will work at such low flow rates, how long before replacing the filter element is necessary - they do breed bacteria - and how well they handle chloramine vs. chlorine. The only problem I see from introducing a steady, but low level of ammonia is possible algae blooms being triggered. But, since this would not be a fluctuating input the algae spores might not chose to "hatch".

Seachem doesn't seem too enthralled with my idea for dosing a holding container with a big overdose of Prime, then letting that get diluted as the change water cycles thru the holding container. I understand their concerns, so I probably will go with a filter of some kind instead. However I don't want to have to spend $300 for the filter and $100 each for monthly filter element replacements, so I really want to visit my local Ace Hardware and find something that fits my bank account better.

This is part of the fun of DIY though - the design decision process!


----------



## bpimm

hoppycalif said:


> The chloramine issue isn't an easy one to get a handle on. For a continuous water change system the flow rate involved is so low it appears that a carbon filter would be effective. But, when I read about the various carbon filters available I can't determine how well they will work at such low flow rates, how long before replacing the filter element is necessary - they do breed bacteria - and how well they handle chloramine vs. chlorine. The only problem I see from introducing a steady, but low level of ammonia is possible algae blooms being triggered. But, since this would not be a fluctuating input the algae spores might not chose to "hatch".
> 
> Seachem doesn't seem too enthralled with my idea for dosing a holding container with a big overdose of Prime, then letting that get diluted as the change water cycles thru the holding container. I understand their concerns, so I probably will go with a filter of some kind instead. However I don't want to have to spend $300 for the filter and $100 each for monthly filter element replacements, so I really want to visit my local Ace Hardware and find something that fits my bank account better.
> 
> This is part of the fun of DIY though - the design decision process!


There are some cartridge units for ice makers that just screw inline, that may be a place to start. just set up a slow flow and test for chloramine. there was a Hach test kit mentioned in the second article but I didn't look it up figuring it would be spendy. Maybe there is a less expensive kit available somewhere.

(EDIT) It's not as bad as I thought it's $60.00 + shipping.


----------



## yxberia

Just a thought, can a whole house carbon filter block help in Cl removal ? It is a cylinder shape solid black carbon filter media for household use. Available in ACE. 

They are cheap nowadays and require not much water pressure to go thru. I did the pH test before and after the carbon block now and then, the reading is different even after months. 

I am a bit skeptical about the dosing part. There is no monitoring system installed. The running cost (anti-Cl dosing) would be much higher than weekly water change.


----------



## hoppycalif

The point of a continuous water change system is to eliminate the weekly drudgery of changing water, not saving money. It certainly doesn't save any money. I'm getting more and more interested in the carbon filters, especially the carbon block type. But, I'm still thinking about the ammonia being released. I suppose a two stage filter, with an ammonia absorbing media in the second stage would solve that, but I haven't looked into that yet.

I'm also wondering if a pressure regulator is really needed. The flow control needle valve seems to be all that is required, and I can get that pretty cheaply. I'm not sure how well a regulator would work for continuous drops per second flow rates, but I also wonder if a needle valve would survive that very long.


----------



## banderbe

If you get an RO unit the issue of using Prime goes away plus you get all the many benefits of RO water. I love my RO unit. Best purchase ever.


----------



## bpimm

hoppycalif said:


> I'm also wondering if a pressure regulator is really needed. The flow control needle valve seems to be all that is required, and I can get that pretty cheaply. I'm not sure how well a regulator would work for continuous drops per second flow rates, but I also wonder if a needle valve would survive that very long.


I use the regulator because when I was just doing one tank I used drip irrigation emitters to control the flow, they are pretty crude and can't handle much pressure. and the side benefit is I could use the regulator for fine control. also all of my feed line is just airline tubing, I don,t think I want to try 80PSI in that stuff (Can you say water weenie).

The regulator I use came from a hydroponics shop it wasn't that expensive as I remember it.


----------



## BryceM

Hoppy,

Just a thought.... I suspect that a slow, steady drip of water wouldn't supply enough chlorine or chloramine to hurt anything. Concentrations just wouldn't be that high and I think your plants would easily accomodate the difference. Who knows, you might even invent the magic cure for algae.  (but I doubt it). You might try it for a while to see if I'm right before adding nice plants & fish.

Don't forget about evaporation. You need to add enough water so that your outflow gets a significant quantitiy of water. Otherwise you'll see TDS creeping upwards over time.

I'd skip the pressure regulator. Pressure on the downstream side of the needle valve will be almost zero. I would look at some sort of strainer or filter above the needle valve or you risk it gunking up on a regular basis. There's always a bit of sand & sediment in water. The only other issue you might have is variable water pressure. I think that might make it hard to dial in the exact rate you want.

Cool project. Keep us posted.


----------



## bpimm

guaiac_boy said:


> Hoppy,
> The only other issue you might have is variable water pressure. I think that might make it hard to dial in the exact rate you want.
> 
> Cool project. Keep us posted.


Thats the other issue I forgot to mention in the why I use a regulator, with the well the pressure swings about 25 PSI. but for those on city water you may not have this issue, it will vary some but I don't think it will be very much. unless you are on an older system them all bets are off.


----------



## JERP

guaiac_boy: Chloramines do not degrade. The toxicity will slowly increase, then things start dying.


----------



## hoppycalif

JERP, chloramines do degrade eventually. Nothing I have read disagrees with that. The advantages of chloramines for treating water are that they remain in the water much longer than chlorine does, and don't form carcinogens with other water contaminants. I haven't seen anything yet about just how long chloramines will remain if you fill a bucket with the water, for example. Is it years, months, days, centuries? Do you have any references that provide that kind of information?


----------



## hoppycalif

guaiac_boy said:


> Hoppy,
> -------
> Don't forget about evaporation. You need to add enough water so that your outflow gets a significant quantitiy of water. Otherwise you'll see TDS creeping upwards over time.
> 
> I'd skip the pressure regulator. Pressure on the downstream side of the needle valve will be almost zero. I would look at some sort of strainer or filter above the needle valve or you risk it gunking up on a regular basis. There's always a bit of sand & sediment in water. The only other issue you might have is variable water pressure. I think that might make it hard to dial in the exact rate you want.
> 
> Cool project. Keep us posted.


Evaporation is an interesting part of the equation, one I have not considered. So, I did some rough calculations: My 29 gallon tank, in this hot weather, with 25 gallons of water in it, loses about 1 1/2 inch of water a week, which is about 10% of the total water. If my 45 gallon tank loses the same, and it should because the set up will be the same, it will lose about 4 gallons a week. The water flow into the tank to replace half of the water in one week will be about 12 ml/minute, or about 4 1/2 gallons per day. So, I will be adding water about ten times as fast as it evaporates. So, TDS shouldn't be an issue.

I'm leaning hard towards using an activated carbon filter upstream of the needle valve to eliminate some of the chloramine and most of the chlorine, possibly followed by an ammonia adsorbing filter to catch the released ammonia. Right now I'm trying to decide if that is overkill or prudence. And, I don't see a reason yet for a regulator - my water is city water, which, over a 24 hour period, should be at the same pressure every day. It makes no difference if it goes up or down 20% or more - this isn't rocket science!

Right now I am in the middle of a medical "episode" that is stopping me from actually doing much, but being a retired engineer, this type project is the most fun I have had for awhile.


----------



## JERP

I'm just going from what I read on the krib many moons ago...

http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/cl.html#11

Have you considered just using a holding tank/sump as a water source? Fill it up, add Amquel, and come back next week and repeat.

I usually use water changes as an excuse to clean the tank.


----------



## hoppycalif

Thanks, JERP! I remember reading that series of posts a couple of years ago. Isn't it amazing that the definitive answer on chloramine is still so elusive?

My goal is to divorce myself from the hassle of dragging in my water change kit, hooking it up, changing water, then getting it all back into storage, without spilling any water in the process. I have this new tank (used)I bought that has a drilled hole for an overflow, and Brian's continuous change system is just too intriguing an idea for me to forget. I was thinking of a holding tank with the incoming water going thru it, slowly of course, and dosing that tank with Prime. But, it doesn't look like that would be effective, plus it would be one more daily dosing task to do. So, I think I would be safe enough just using a carbon filter made for undersink filtering, and change it every 6 months. No one seems to have landed a fatal blow to that idea over the years.

I will plan to do a normal drain and refill change about monthly and do my major "gardening" then. In my dreams of course, I will not have algae issues requiring more closely spaced gardening.


----------



## bpimm

hoppycalif said:


> Thanks, JERP! I remember reading that series of posts a couple of years ago. Isn't it amazing that the definitive answer on chloramine is still so elusive?
> 
> My goal is to divorce myself from the hassle of dragging in my water change kit, hooking it up, changing water, then getting it all back into storage, without spilling any water in the process. I have this new tank (used)I bought that has a drilled hole for an overflow, and Brian's continuous change system is just too intriguing an idea for me to forget. I was thinking of a holding tank with the incoming water going thru it, slowly of course, and dosing that tank with Prime. But, it doesn't look like that would be effective, plus it would be one more daily dosing task to do. So, I think I would be safe enough just using a carbon filter made for undersink filtering, and change it every 6 months. No one seems to have landed a fatal blow to that idea over the years.
> 
> I will plan to do a normal drain and refill change about monthly and do my major "gardening" then. In my dreams of course, I will not have algae issues requiring more closely spaced gardening.


I think you are on the right track with the carbon inline filter, it will be interesting to see your ammonia test results.

I don't know how it will work with the EI ferts, but with the soil substrate I use if I get algae starting, I crank up the water change rate and starve it, this may be detrimental to your plants without the nutrients in the soil.

right now I have two new tanks cycling and both have small amounts of algae, I have been able to control it with the water flow rate and the algae squad in each tank.

Brian


----------



## hoppycalif

I'm back to this project again: I have my filter, my pressure regulator and my needle valve now. The filter is from Home Depot (about $30 including the filter element) and it takes standard sized filter elements - the one I purchased is a carbon one. The pressure regulator is from ebay at an absurdly low price ($2, as I remember plus $4 shipping cost). The needle valve is also from ebay, where I got 3 of them for 99 cents plus $5.01 shipping cost. (I am offering two of them for sale here today if anyone else wants to try this system. This valve will be perfect for this use.)


----------



## Tom Sharland

I use a 3 pod, sediment, chlorine/chloramine, heavy metal, filter unit manufactured by Pentek Filtration (an American company I believe). I purchased this from a UK based Discus breeder and importer. It won't alter the kH/gH/pH of the water but will remove all sediment down to 0.5 micron, breaks the NH3Cl2 bond and then removes chlorine and ammonia, finally it removes toxic heavy metals. Purchased from here. I use the DD HMA80C

When I do a rainy season on my river tank I siphon tank water out on to my garden through some 5mm id pvc pipe used on RO filters, the water is then fed directly from the mains supply, through the heavy metal/chlorine/chloramine filter and into the tank where a float valve controls the level in the tank (ie as the water siphons out, the level drops the float valve and lets fresh filtered water into the tank).

I leave this running for days at a time and the temp in the tank over the summer only drops 2 - 3 *C. But after a day the nitrates in a heavily fed, unplanted tank, are barely detectable. The fish go into full spawning mode .

Tom


----------



## hoppycalif

I finally assembled the equipment for my continuous water change water supply. Here is what it looks like before I attach it to the wall: (The valve with the lever on it at the right is a 3-way valve made to be used on pneumatic systems, but it should be rust proof enough for this application. The second outlet line is for catching the flow to adjust the regulator and needle valve to get the flow rate I want.)









And, here is the "U-Tube" that dribbles the water into the tank, at the other end of a 1/4" drip irrigation tube from the outlet of the equipment above:









My plumber was supposed to come today to install a water line on the wall of my second floor deck, which will be the water supply for this, but he did a cop-out until Wednesday.


----------



## hoppycalif

I now have the plumbing installed for supplying a continuous water flow to my tank. It is supposed to provide about 24 ounces per hour, continuously, but adjusting it hasn't been terribly successful yet. The flow starts out ok, but drops off with time. I'm still thinking there is a combination of regulated pressure and needle valve adjustment that will work, but we shall see. 24 ounces per hour is about 4 drops per second - a very low flow.









The rectangular pan under the plumbing is a leak catching sump! I relearned a lesson from years ago: it isn't a good idea to connect a string of parts with all pipe threads. That makes it almost impossible to stop leaks. So, I tried epoxy putty, sold to fix leaks, but that didn't work perfectly. Then I gave up on that, since the leaks are a drop a minute, and just added the sump, with a drain line. That works, except who woulda thought a dry wall pan wouldn't be water tight!.


----------



## BryceM

Ever notice how small leaks in pipes "heal themselves" over time? Actually, it's a phenomenon that I've relied on a few times myself . I assume this takes place when microscopic deposits become lodged in the small openings. You might be having trouble adjusting a low flow for the same reason.

I'd guess that if you play with it long enough you'll find something that will work. Cool project - thanks for the update.


----------



## hoppycalif

guaiac_boy said:


> Ever notice how small leaks in pipes "heal themselves" over time? Actually, it's a phenomenon that I've relied on a few times myself . I assume this takes place when microscopic deposits become lodged in the small openings. You might be having trouble adjusting a low flow for the same reason.
> 
> I'd guess that if you play with it long enough you'll find something that will work. Cool project - thanks for the update.


Yes, I have left minute leaks many times when doing my DIY remodeling jobs, and they always gradually stop. But, I just assumed it was God taking pity on me! The 4 drops per second is almost dialed in now. I ran it most of the afternoon, readjusting the valve and regulator, and finally it settled down for a half hour at around 6 drops per minute - very close! To think that I almost left out the regulator.


----------



## bpimm

Good to see it up and running, keep us updated on how it works with the EI ferts. I'm thinking about trying a high tech tank to compare against my semi El Natural but didn't want to give up the continuous W/C. 

I like how you have your system mounted on a wall out of the way, I thought I had a heater failure in my nano because the temp. dropped to 62 Degrees, I had heard it was failure prone, so after I replaced it and the temp came up to 64 Degrees I started scratching my head. Apparently I had bumped the needle valve for the nano and was flowing more water than the 50W heater could keep warm OOPS.


----------



## hoppycalif

I guess I should thank you, bpimm! I had forgotten all about what happens when it gets colder. My incoming water will be at roughly the outside temperature, since the water line runs under a redwood deck on top of my garage. And, I haven't bought a heater for the tank yet. All I was concerned about was the summer, and the cooler water will help keep down the summer water temperature, by cooling the tank at night, hopefully less than it warms it during the sunny part of the day. So, I suppose I will be shopping ebay for a giveaway on a good heater now. I could design a heater pipe, with the heater inside, to run the incoming water through? Or just add a two foot length of 2 inch pipe in the line, where the water's dwell time would bring it up to near room temperature? DIY is never ending!


----------



## bpimm

hoppycalif said:


> I guess I should thank you, bpimm! I had forgotten all about what happens when it gets colder. My incoming water will be at roughly the outside temperature, since the water line runs under a redwood deck on top of my garage. And, I haven't bought a heater for the tank yet. All I was concerned about was the summer, and the cooler water will help keep down the summer water temperature, by cooling the tank at night, hopefully less than it warms it during the sunny part of the day. So, I suppose I will be shopping ebay for a giveaway on a good heater now. I could design a heater pipe, with the heater inside, to run the incoming water through? Or just add a two foot length of 2 inch pipe in the line, where the water's dwell time would bring it up to near room temperature? DIY is never ending!


I actually turned up the water flow on the hot days to cool the tanks, but that would kinda mess up the fert routine.

Do you normally have heaters in your tanks, if you do then the inline heater is unnecessary as the amount of cold water is negligible in the big picture.

DIY is not only never ending but it is addictive also.


----------



## hoppycalif

bpimm said:


> I actually turned up the water flow on the hot days to cool the tanks, but that would kinda mess up the fert routine.
> 
> Do you normally have heaters in your tanks, if you do then the inline heater is unnecessary as the amount of cold water is negligible in the big picture.
> 
> DIY is not only never ending but it is addictive also.


I used a small heater in my 29 gallon tank, which rarely came on, so I removed it last Spring. Then I forgot all about heating. I don't want to introduce another spot where leaks can occur, especially not under the tank, so the inline idea is probably a non-starter. I may just add the small heater to the 45 gallon tank. The coldest the room gets is around 60 - 65 F, so it is hardly critical.


----------



## hoppycalif

Today I finally got my 45 gallon tank up and running, and the continuous water change system seems to work great. It is holding the slow flow rate that I set very well. And, the overflow, which is just an elbow, with one leg cut way down to get the top of the elbow at the desired water level, works very nicely too. Tomorrow I may regain enough energy to take a picture of it from the tank end, without the hood in the way. So, now the experiment with EI and continuous water changes begins!


----------



## hoppycalif

My continuous water change system is working just fine so far. Below are pictures of the installation at work. Note that a GDA episode is well underway!
Inside the top of the tank, water in to the tank at left, overflow on right.
















Outside the wall, the drain water goes to the edge of the deck and drips continuously. The inlet tubing goes across the deck to the supply system previously posted.


----------



## newguy

sorry if this was already mentioned. But for chlorine remover, why not just get the aquadose, dump a bottle of prime in there, and let it continously drip into your reserve tank proportional to the water flow rate? As an added advantage, it will be a completely mechanical system so less chance of something going wrong with all those digital monitoring tools.


----------



## hoppycalif

I did spend a lot of time and thought on using such a system. I gave it up when Seachem discouraged the idea of potentially overdosing Prime that way. I thought I would just dose a tank's worth of Prime every two days, counting on the water change to dilute it away, but I'm trying to let the carbon filter remove the chlorine for now. If that works I'm home free! Also, I gave up the idea of a reserve tank, and now let the incoming flow go directly into the tank. Simplicity means fewer potential failures.


----------



## IUnknown

Has anyone seen an automated water change setup that uses pumps? I don't know if these pumps would hold back the water pressure when turned off, but for $70 and a digital timer $20, you could get two to pump the water out and then back in. Install a TEE after the water filter under a sink for example.

APT Instruments: AC Centrifugal Pump - Open Air

hoppycalif, you mind giving an estimate on how much the system you've been running runs around?


----------



## hoppycalif

IUnknown said:


> Has anyone seen an automated water change setup that uses pumps? I don't know if these pumps would hold back the water pressure when turned off, but for $70 and a digital timer $20, you could get two to pump the water out and then back in. Install a TEE after the water filter under a sink for example.
> 
> APT Instruments: AC Centrifugal Pump - Open Air
> 
> hoppycalif, you mind giving an estimate on how much the system you've been running runs around?


Much of the cost is in doo-dads. Just all of the fittings, adapters, reducers, etc. cost a good $20 or more. I figure a total for all plumbing of about $70. Then the filter, regulator (ebay), needle valve (ebay) were about $60 total.
So, it cost around $125-135. I didn't keep track of this, and a lot of the fittings I purchased I couldn't use, plus this was spread over a couple of months, so the cost is a guess. I didn't include the plumber's pay - he extended my cold water piping from the water heater supply in the garage below the deck to a storage shed on the deck. I recall paying him about $225. You know, if I had done some bookkeeping, the wife would inevitably ask me just how much I spent on that, and I would have to admit it. Not knowing is a blessing.


----------



## bpimm

hoppycalif said:


> Not knowing is a blessing.


----------



## Naja002

Here's a thought for a Dechlor that I use:










Here is a link to their website:

EZ-Flo Website

I spent a lot of time researching this product for an Auto-WC and Auto-Dosing system. It works. Yes, it looks like some cheap "Sprayer" bottle modification--but its not. I incorporated it inline with my incoming water. Setup that way you can achieve ratios from 400:1-15,000:1. I have a 3/4g version ($50-60) for Dechlor and a 3g version for ferts.

Its not affected by pressure or flow.

Just a thought. Im not over here at APC much, so email me if You would like more info....

HTH


----------



## hoppycalif

I studied that EZ flo website quite awhile, looking for how I could use it for my system. I was always stymied by the very low flow rate I planned to use. My incoming water flow rate is about 5 drops or so per second, or about 5/20 of a ml per second, which is about .25 * 3600/3985 gallons per hour, which is about .22 gallons per hour or .22 * 24 gallons per day, which is about 5 gallons per day. As I understood the website, that flow is much too low for the EZ Flow system to work at all accurately. Then, consider the tiny amount of Prime, for example that would have to be sucked up by that system per day to treat 5 gallons of water per day. At that point I gave up on it and decided to see if a carbon filter would remove enough of the chlorine and chloramine to work. So far it seems to work fine.


----------



## bpimm

I stumbled on this drip rate calculator today and thought it might come in handy. it figures in the dilution factor also.

drip calculator


----------



## onemyndseye

Hey hoppy -

You may have answered this but: I'm putting together a water treatment and holding tank of about 65Gal to make my like alittle easier...LOL - anyways I was planning on using carbon for dechlor since I have a Rural water supply that uses only chlorine... and not really much of it ....

My question is how often do you change your carbon? My system will hold 65Gal of water that is kept topped off by a float valve... all incomming water will flow through a canister of cabon. Also since I have soft water I would also like to be able to add oyster gritt or the like to get my GH up abit so I'll have to figure out how to dose that....*shrug*

This is a great project that I'll be following closely. If I ever get to build my Fish/Sun room this is definately on my todo list 

Take Care,
-Justin
One Mynds Eye


----------



## hoppycalif

Justin, my system uses a standard whole house filter, with a carbon filter element installed. The filter element is supposed to be good for 3 to 6 months, or for X gallons of water (I forget). That meant I wouldn't need to change the element more than annually, except that they say not to exceed 6 months. I'm sure at the very low flow rate I use it will remove all chlorine, but I'm not yet sure how it handles chloramine. Since I started the system I have done one 70% water change in order to clean the glass sides of GDA, and I added Prime then, but other than that, the only anti-chloramine treatment is the filter. No fish problems yet. And, the water level never changes.

That drip rate calculator is great! I had to do my own calculations to figure out what flow rate to use, and fortunately this calculator agrees with me. It would have saved me a lot of effort to have had it two months ago. It is bookmarked now!


----------



## BryceM

Hoppy, it's been fun following your progress with all of this. Hopefully it will continue to work well. Imagine......... no more WC's. 

The skeptic in me says that all of your planning with the carbon filter and such is probably overkill. I'm guessing that by infusing new water as slowly as you are, that you'd be ok without any form of treatment. Actual concentrations of chlorine and chloramine in the tank would be orders of magnitude less than in your supply lines as it would have lots of time to disipate.


----------



## onemyndseye

Yeah.... I think so too specially with chlorine... since it reacts to DOC's in the water...

a little overkill never hurt though 


-Justin
One Mynds Eye


----------



## bblumberg

hoppycalif said:


> I did spend a lot of time and thought on using such a system. I gave it up when Seachem discouraged the idea of potentially overdosing Prime that way. I thought I would just dose a tank's worth of Prime every two days, counting on the water change to dilute it away, but I'm trying to let the carbon filter remove the chlorine for now. If that works I'm home free! Also, I gave up the idea of a reserve tank, and now let the incoming flow go directly into the tank. Simplicity means fewer potential failures.


why not dose sodium thiosulphate? It is quite non-toxic and very inexpensive.

Bruce


----------



## bpimm

bblumberg said:


> why not dose sodium thiosulphate? It is quite non-toxic and very inexpensive.
> 
> Bruce


Why dose anything when you don't need to, That would add back to the work load, by setting it up the way he did, Hoppy has eliminated the need to deal with waterchanges altogeather. IMHO.


----------



## hoppycalif

bpimm said:


> Why dose anything when you don't need to, That would add back to the work load, by setting it up the way he did, Hoppy has eliminated the need to deal with waterchanges altogeather. IMHO.


I agree. I don't mind the routine fertilizing and feeding, but adding things at other than daily intervals doesn't appeal to me. However, this system doesn't entirely eliminate water changes. If you need to do major maintenance to the plantings you need to do a major water change at the same time. I just hope this reduces those changes to monthly or less often.


----------



## onemyndseye

".... I just hope this reduces those changes to monthly or less often...."

Just start a natural tank! *smirk* 

-Justin
One Mynds Eye


----------



## Naja002

Just a quick clarification on the EZ-Flo: The minimum flow rate is 2.5 gp*H*, so even at that--it is not suitable for your system.

Here's hoping the Carbon filter does everything You need it too--I am interested in that myself......


----------



## hoppycalif

So far the system works just as I expected it to. I only do water changes in response to algae problems or when I otherwise need to clean the tank thoroughly. No more weekly routine 50% changes. And, the plants and wildlife are thriving in the tank. I have had to readjust the water flow rate a few times when it was too low (usually) or too high (a couple of times), but that was by choice and not some necessity. If I were to do this again I doubt that I would do anything differently.


----------



## Naja002

Sounds Great! Have You ever determined whether or not there actually is chloramines in Your water supply?

I take it Your fert dosing is done Manually?

Trying to determine how to setup a auto-WC system using RO+DI.......will need to adjust Gh, Kh, and add ferts....

Thanx!


----------



## hoppycalif

My last water agency water quality report didn't mention chlorine at all, for some reason. I'm just assuming that, this being a large metropolitan area, they must be using chloramine. I don't think it is safe to assume otherwise. In any case, nothing has happened in the tank that seems to indicate a problem.

I dose dry ferts by hand daily, alternating days of macros and days of traces. I'm going to be looking intently at the tank every morning in any case, so I don't have a problem with dosing and feeding the fish at that time.


----------



## Naja002

> I don't think it is safe to assume otherwise.


I agree completely.

Thanx for letting me know on the manual fert dosing. Right now it doesn't look like I am going to be able to use a Continuous Drip WC System. I guess I am going to have to do the Ball-valve and/or solenoids on Timers method. I need to adjust Kh, Gh, Add Tannins and Humic Acids, plus ferts--so it looks like it will be simpler for my situation to just do the weekly or nightly thing. Oh, well.....

Thanx for the Info!


----------

