# Growing in an emersed set up - 2 photos



## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

These snaps are untouched. No glass cleaning or anything like that.

The closer shot is in a pH ~ 8.2, mS ~2500. Twelve hrs lighting. The pots have been planted just about six months ago or less when they were split up. the name tags do not change, but all data found at time of repotting is documented in deatail and saved for future reference and self-learning.

The shot of the the tiny plants is of a blackwater nursery tank. A sock of very acidic peat was just removed. It has just been planted, thus the tiny plants. The same data is recorded on the tag as the original pot where the parent plant. This is done to maintain some continuity. Everything about the new pot and its contents is recorded. There is another nursery tank being potted up today. it has a pH of ~ 4.5, mS ~250.

Do not kid yourself, this is a LOT of work. But, it is the ONLY way to learn and maintain a large number of plants and tanks, at least for me.

I will always take luck over hard work! however, it seems the harder one woprks, the luckier one gets!

Have a great weekend. And.................plant something!!

Denske, we are watching you!
Bill


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## ferchu22 (Oct 27, 2007)

Nice pics and explanation Bill and very nice bullated guys in in there!
Some questions, I see some post with some gray aspect (for instance the last pot on the lowest rightest side on the second pic), is it some kind of mold? Does it produce any bad effect on the plant? 
I'm asking this because I used to have some kind of mold, and I used to fight it with Physan 20.

Another thing, you mention in several posts about your ms in your setups. Do you use that level of ms as reference and you fertilize according that? Do you use any specific fertilizer for that?

Thanks for your info, I hope I could have my setup back in a couple of weeks 
BR,


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## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

The grayish green filmy looking stuff is supposedly an algae. It acts like a mold, IMO. It is VERY hydrophobic. Everybody gets it sooner or later.
As regards fertilizing, I have tried many things. Miracle Gro for azaleas, Camellias and Rhodendrons is good. Use at a diluted rate. You can try various things. 
There is not one way of doing things. You must experiment with what is available to you. It varies for everyone.
Are you getting set up??
Bill


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## ferchu22 (Oct 27, 2007)

Sure, I'll start slowly with the ferts.
I already have a setup, but it's abandoned, without plants since las year (because of lack of time and bad results on the last time). I'll first improve lighting, clean everything, and start again from the begining. I really used to enjoy working on my setup some years ago, I used to have several different species. I'll then create a new thread for it.

Keep pics comming!


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## denske (Jul 28, 2013)

Ok now im jealous dude, thats some nice bullosa! Im in love with the bullated stuff right now. I finally got a few hours to myself tomorw, time to get cracking! Trying to get my 40b up and running, hopefully will be pic worthy!

When you say 8.2 ph, are you measuring the water in the tank itself, or the ph of the soil? Or would they be the same? Thanks.

-Den


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## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

The water is 8.2. I do not know what the mix is. I do test all the components of the mix. 

I really do not understand why all these Crypts from different wild requirements seem to do well in this horrible water and obviously horrible mix.

Get your butt in gear and terrorize the place while your wife is out mañana.

Git 'er done !! Yeah!!
Bill


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

saddletramp said:


> The grayish green filmy looking stuff is supposedly an algae. It acts like a mold, IMO. It is VERY hydrophobic. Everybody gets it sooner or later.


Boy, isn't that the truth. That stuff is the worst.

Thanks for sharing your setups with us. Are you using hygrometers to measure humidity or going by feel?


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## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

The "algae" seems harmless to the plants.
It does, however, infect the mind of the Crypt keeper. And, just like AIDS, once you got it, you got it, period. Very difficult to eliminate entirely in a big set up.
As far as humidity control. I just close the lid on the tank. That is all. What it is, it is,
Bill


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

saddletramp said:


> As far as humidity control. I just close the lid on the tank. That is all. What it is, it is,
> Bill


So in other words, high. 

I asked about humidity because I've noticed I get a lot more of that grey powdery stuff the higher my humidity is.


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## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

That grey, hydrophobic algae is just part of the game. If the plants are growing and blooming, not much else matters. The humidity here is very high. It is the easiest way to manage the tanks.

Most plants grow well. Some plants present problems. The challenge is to resolve those problems and succeed with that particular specie or a variety.

All attempts to grow a plant emersed are tried until every idea is exhausted. Then, and only then, do they go into a submersed, CO2 charged tank. Often, that does the trick.

Bottom line, when the plant appears "happy" everybody's happy!!!!
Bill


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

How are you getting the KH and pH so high in some of your tanks? Is your tap water that hard or is it just from continuous top offs?


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## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

It must be from a very basic red clay I use.
Bill


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## denske (Jul 28, 2013)

Is a RO/DI setup supposed to lower the PH as well? My brs rodi setup produces 0 tds, but ph stays the same at 7.6, what gives? Brand new filters, less than a month old.

That is some crazy KH Bill!


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## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

I am no water expert. Fresh deionized water is slightly acidic here due to dissolved gases, such as CO2. In a day or so, it usually approaches pH 6.5 or so. Every system is a little different.

Why not cut up your wife's nylons and put some acidic peat socks in the tank if you are trying to acidifying things. Your wife won't mind if you tell her what it is for!!!!!
Bill


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## denske (Jul 28, 2013)

Yep i got the 40 up and running with my tap water, then my 20 long setup as a blackwater setup with some peat and indian almond leaves soaking in it. The water is literally black! Looks like ill need to find another way to test the ph other than the drops lol.

Im also trying to raise my KH in the tap water at the moment, it seems to change with the seasons around here, and right now its pretty soft.


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## h4n (Dec 23, 2005)

Wow very nice!!! Such a nice collection also 

Ya I get a lot of algae/mold if I keep a close lid. I just crack it enough. Seem to work good.

Do you guys dose fertz right into water? Or fertz any all?


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## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

Den, what is your current GH, KH? What are you trying to accomplish in your planted tank? Or, what conditions are you trying to achieve?

h4n, I dose ferts into each pot. The water is dosed in the submerged system as the plants are in pots.

Bill


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## denske (Jul 28, 2013)

Yesterday my kh was at 2, i added a teaspoon of cichlid buffer, results as of today:
Ph- 8
Gh- 8
Kh- 6
This is from my main tank that houses most of my collection, the other small tank im keeping as a blackwater setup for future plants, and i was just seeing if i could get the ph lower in that tank then do some more tests.
Im gonna see what the tds reading is later as well.


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## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

Not sure what all you have in the way of species, but 8 pH might not be too good for some. It seems that what you have could be fine for some bullosa, etc. you must test this with a few plants at a time and see how they do after a few weeks. You should know by then.

That is only my opinion. Bill


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## denske (Jul 28, 2013)

Whats more important Bill, PH? Or hardness? Or both? Lol, I also have each pot filled with about half aquasoil, which should bring the ph down a little. Its probably gonna be alot of trial and error for me haha.


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## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

Den, it is all important and all tied together. I start testing for mS, pH, then GH and KH.

Even substrate is tied into the equation.

I suggest doing research online for the requirements of each plant you want to grow in the tank. Try to set up your system with water and some substrates that can accommodate those species / varieties.

Do lots of research and gather the info. It will suddenly start falling into place as to what might be compatible.

There is no shortcut, as usual.
Bill


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## ts168 (Apr 13, 2004)

Hello saddletramp, what a great setup with those terrible mold. But hey your crypt grow well and strong. 

Those mold form when temperature reach a certain warm and lack of air circulation.
If plant is weak it will die, else it harmless to plant. Good work there.

I want to ask what crypt is that in picture 2(bottom right) Nice vein.


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## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

If you say, "nice veining", it must be Lingga 19, a wonderful plant!! A little difficult but a real beauty. I try to keep a colony of it mixed through several tanks, for safety reasons.

The mold is absolutely no problem, just an ugly to look at. After a while,you pretty much overlook it.

If being successful means having the mold, no problem. Bring it on! You can't have everything perfect. Anyway, there are other things more important to worry about.

Bill


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## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

Something very important to consider:
Always check the pH, GH, KH and mSiemens of any new substrate component you are considering adding to your mix.

For example, red clay is not red clay is not red clay! There is a considerable difference as you check out various products. Red clay can range from very basic with high Ca levels to quite acidic and low Ca levels. This can have a dramatic effect on some Crypts species as has been experienced here. 

What is said above about clays can also be said about potting mixes, sands, leafmold, etc.

Sometimes an improper addition to a growing mix can result in loss of plants, a slower down in growth or death of plants.

So, do your homework. Test equipment is cheap compared to the damage that can be done.

Bill


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## ferchu22 (Oct 27, 2007)

Ok Bill, good point. But how can you chec those parameters on solids? And which would be the better parameter for most of the Crypts ( I know there are also special cases).
BR,

Fernando


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## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

Fernando, the thing to do is set yourself a standard for measuring things. For solids, you might use, for example, red clay up to the 20ml line in a graduated cylinder and then top it off with, say, RO water, to the 50 ml line. Then shake it well, let it set an hour or overnight, whatever, and test for whatever you want. The next red clay sample should always be tested the same way. Then you have references. Do tests for anything you are going to be adding to your substrate.

The above is what I do. Others may offer different ways of doing things.

For blackwater species, you want very low results from the tests. That would mean the water is quite pure compared to a water that has high test results for the four properties we discussed above.

You must do a lot of researching on the web to get answers to raising various species. It is all on the web. You will learn a lot of additional things while looking for specific info.

Good luck, bill


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## denske (Jul 28, 2013)

Thats interesting you brought this up Bill, i just picked up some limestone powder i wanted to take some tests on some mixes. What testing equipment do you use Bill? For my blackwater setup, the tannins in the water make it impossible for tests using drops. Ive even began collecting rainwater and it tests a lower PH then my RO/DI water.


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## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

With the tannin stained water, you can still test pH and TDS / mSiemens with a Hanna meter. That will tell you a lot right there.
I am using Elos test kits currently. There are other brands on the market.
Bill


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## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

The first photo is of a bunch of newly repotted Crypts. There is a longicauda and a plantlet of Lingga 19 'Platinum Line' and another plant in the photo as well. I think there is an alba Green and an alba Brown in the upper right hand corner.

Photo two is a shot of that tank of repotted plantlets shown on the first page of this thread. Perhaps you can see some growth has occurred with them.

Bill


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