# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Fish for Planted Tanks



## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

One of the big questions for anyone setting up a new planted tank, especially if it's the first one, is what kind of fish will work well. In an effort to help answer this question and make The Fish Bowl more useful for everyone, I'll be putting up several featured posts with various categories of fish that are well suited to planted tanks, and I would really appreciate everyone sharing some of the terrific fish pictures I've seen here, and others you may have, so that people can see what a particular fish looks like in a healthy planted tank. The categories I'm thinking about are as follows:

Dwarf Cichlids
Discus and Angelfish 
The Algae Crew (shrimp pictures also welcome)
Schooling Fish
Fish for Small Tanks
And the ever-popular "Other Fish"

I'm not really looking to create a fish species database here, but it would be useful if anyone posting a picture could indicate basic care and water requirements, size, temperament, or anything else you consider useful info. What I'm looking for is the fish you keep and have been happy with in your planted tanks.

If you have any suggestions for more (or fewer) categories, please let me know! I'd like to put up the categories and start assembling photos this weekend.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## George Willms (Jul 28, 2004)

Where is the category for Rainbows!?

George

Tank specs in profile


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

LOL! See, I KNEW this would get me in trouble. I didn't want to have a whole string of sticky categories at the top of the forum, I was afraid posts would get lost under all those featured posts so I wanted to minimize the groupings, but I'm already thinking that won't work well. Maybe it would be better to have species groups-like "Rainbows", "Pencilfish", "Apistogrammas", etc., and just let the pictures fall where they may. If we wind up with enough of them, maybe I could just persuade Robert to create a separate forum under the Fish Bowl that would be similar to the Plant Database forum.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Sure, go for it Vicki! Fish pic gallery, fish database, no problem

Robert
King admin
www.aquabotanic.com


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Excellent! I think that would wind up being a lot more informative, Robert. That's what we'll do, then.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

I just figured out how to take good pics with my camera, and I work at a LFS, so I would love to help with Pics, descriptions ect. I have acces to tons of info and stock, i'm not as pro as yourself and 2la, but maybe I could contribute. Let me know!


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Absolutely, Justin! Most of us can't possibly keep as many fish as we'd LIKE to keep and just have a handful of species we can photograph, but you have all the store's stock to choose from, that would be great! When those pretty little tetras of yours are all colored up, they'd make a nice picture. It's supposed to rain all weekend here, so assuming I can get all my chores done for my real fish, I'll get started on the cyberfish!

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Glad to contribute. Let me know what you would like me to do. We have over 150 tanks of FW fish and almost 50 SW fish/coral/invert tanks.

I am sure I can get most common stuff photo'd.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2003)

Robert & Vicki,

So what happened to Fish pic gallery idea ?. Are we still going for seperate structure ?


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Yes, as long as it's okay with Robert. I just need somebody to create the forum for me. Until Robert gets a chance to do it, I thought I'd start here in the Fish Bowl, I hope to have time to get started later today. Have an actual day off tomorrow, hopefully with all my chores done, and hope to do more then. We have a number of very nice pictures here already that I'm going to use for some species. Once The Fish Gallery is created, I'll move them over there.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

Great idea! Could save us many headaches in the future.

What about a catagory called "cleaning crew" or "algae crew". It might be a repeat of other catagories, but it would be nice to have a thread that lists all sorts of algae eating fish/shrimp/etc that are plant safe. Also listing what types of algae they eat at the same time.

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## Lonestar (Aug 9, 2003)

george...she wanted fish for a planted tank...that leaves out rainbows as they eat and destroy plants. big time!!!


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## George Willms (Jul 28, 2004)

Funny, mine don't seem to bother my plants.

George

5.5: mid-tech and maintenance, 29: high-tech, mid maintenance, 45 high: low-tech, low maintenance.

More complete tank specs in profile


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## 2la (Feb 3, 2003)

Two of my LFSs have 72G-bowfront heavily planted display tanks with adult rainbows, and neither of them have problems with the plants being eaten. Perhaps it's an issue of underfeeding (though in the case of rainbowfishes, that's a very relative term!







)?


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## George Willms (Jul 28, 2004)

Can you ever overfeed big rainbows?!









George

5.5: mid-tech and maintenance, 29: high-tech, mid maintenance, 45 high: low-tech, low maintenance.

More complete tank specs in profile


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2003)

Rainbows are always on the move looking for something to eat. I tried _Heteranthera zosterifolia_ on many occasions and ended up being unsuccessful each time. It was eaten in matter of few days.


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

My neon blue's are very active and need more food than say tetras for example, but they do seam to be plant friendly.

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## M0oN (Jan 15, 2004)

Well if you're interested here's a quick mock up of discus fish...you can find pictures almost anywhere, I'd post some of mine but my camera is a dinosaur and the pictures look like water paintings.

Discus are highly sensitive fish, for this reason they should only be kept by experienced hobbyists who have the time and dedication it takes to keep them.

In the wild they live in pools made up of rain water from tropical storms along with angel fish and tetra, this has led to a strong misconception that the discus need special water parameters to survive, namely very soft water. While this might have been true 20 years ago, they have now been tank raised so long that they are able to adapt to almost any water conditions that have a pH under 8.4 and they will thrive in these conditions. The only time discus do need soft water is when they are spawning, the out shell of the eggs will harden and the fry will literally die before they can hatch if the water is not kept under 7.4 pH and a gH of around 10 or lower. They should also be kept in waters of at least 84 degree's fareinheight but preferably closer to 86 degree's.

The general rule of thumb for discus is one per every 10 gallons, they can reach a maximum size of 8 or 9 inches, but this is very rare and will not happen in planted tanks.

They are very shy fish and wary of other tank mates, so they should be kept in a species specific tank. On top of this they are prone to disease and introducing other fish is a risk. However, tank mates can be kept if chosen carefully and it's been theorized that schools of cardinal tetra will even help to relax them. Other tank mates to consider would be gold nugget plecostomas (or any other designer plecostomas that doesn't grow over 6 inches) and cory cats. They can live with angel fish at smaller sizes, but in the end the angel fish will out compete the discus for food as discus are very slow grazers. It has also been said that angel fish can carry a parasite that has no effect on them but is fatal to discus. Plecostomas that grow larger then 6 inches have a tendancy to latch onto the sides of discus and feed from their slime coating. I've also found that bronze cory's seem to tolerate the discus' heat requirements better then others.

Care and maintenance for discus in a planted tank is really not that hard at all, it just takes dedication. A minimum of 30% of the water should be changed out every other day, as they are very sensitive to nitrite and nitrate. Other ways to accomplish this is through a drip system of cold water running over a carbon block before being introduced to the tank, this will prevent pH fluctuations in co2 injected tanks.

They should never be fed live foods, frozen brine shrimp and blood worms are good as a treat, but in general it is good to feed them foods such as Colorbits, Ocean Nutrition Formula 1 flake and Ocean Nutrition Formula 2 flake.

The ideal food for a discus that most breeders use is a simple mix of beef heart and shelled raw shrimp, while this may seem expensive it's actually cheaper then buying real fish food.

Here is a good recipe to keep discus growing at an excellent rate and vibrant in color:
1 beef heart, cubed, trim all fat
2 pounds of shelled raw shrimp
1 cup of ocean nutrition formula 2 flake
1 cup of either ocean nutrition formula 1 flake or colorbits
1 tablespoon of garlic
1 multivitamin, ground.

Just simply add all items into a food processor and puree it, it is necessary to freeze the mixture before feeding it to the fish to help sterilize it of bacteria and parasites. A good idea is to make up balls that will be large enough for a weeks worth of feeding, wrap them in suran wrap and freeze them all seperately so that you can avoid the complications of thawing an entire batch and wasting most of it.

Once discus are acclimated to their surroundings they are very animated fish with complex pecking orders and their own individual personalities, healthy discus will run to the front of the tank and vibrate when you walk into the room, even do somthing called a flash dance, which is part of their mating habbits.

Watching discus raise their young is one of the greatest aspects of these fish, for the first 2 months the fry will literally ride on the bodies of their parents, feeding off their slime coat before they become free floating. The parents will swim by eachother, rubbing bodies and in the process all of the fry will transfer from one to the other.

When buying discus it is best to buy them through online breeders, some of the best in the united states come from http://www.discusfarm.us and all of the fish on this page are from the original breeders who invented the strains.

If you do decide to purchase them through a local fish store you must be very aware of what to look for, never buy any discus with the following:
Stunted growth - if the eyes appear too large for the body or the discus are displaying brilliant coloration at any size under 4 inches this means they are stunted, while this is by no means a problem to the actual fishes health, it does mean that this fish will not grow much larger then what it is already at, will not live very long and is not a candidate for breeding.

Shortened gill plates - be sure the gill plates on both sides of the discus are uniform to eachother and that they cover the entire gill.

Oblonge or triangular bodies - Ideal discus have very rounded bodies, you should also look out for very pointed noses.

Black eyes or skin - If the discus is out in the front of the tank and still displaying a very dark coloration this means the discus is sick with somthing, red eyes are the ideal coloration for discus and black eyes make poor candidates for breeding, this could also be related to an illness.

Be sure to pick discus that readily rush to the front of the tank when you are in front of it and come to the top of the water when waving your hand over the top of the tank, ask the owner to feed them in front of you and pick the ones that come to the food the quickest.

In order to obtain optimal colors out of your discus it is recommended that you use a light blue background and a lighter colored substrate, black backgrounds and substrate will cause discus to turn very very dark in coloration and make it hard to determine if they're ill or not.








A beautiful pair of sub-adult discus.








This is a very nice looking discus at a full grown size in planted tanks. It's eyes however make it a poor breeding candidate as they are not red.








A photograph of parents transfering fry from one to another.








Absolutely fantastic grade discus, they do not get any better looking than this. (Aside from color variations)








Another photograph of discus and their fry.

All in all discus are one of the greatest fish on this planet and the results of true dedication to their habitat are one of the greatest rewards a hobbyist could ever ask for.


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

VERY nice write up on discus. Maybe in my next tank I'll try them out. The care part is a bit scary though.

------------------------------
Karl's Parts And Construction Journal 
Karl's 125 aquascape


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## M0oN (Jan 15, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by kherman:
> VERY nice write up on discus. Maybe in my next tank I'll try them out. The care part is a bit scary though.
> ...


http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop....006090712&f=1306023812&m=8696047754
[/QUOTE]

It's not nearly as hard as it sounds, it takes me maybe 30 minutes a day to do a 60 gallon water change on my 100 gallon tank and 20 minutes of that is waiting around. Here's how you do it.

Place your tank within about 10 feet of a window, preferably close to a hose as well.

Get two 32 gallon rubbermaid trash cans with some lids, a fountain pump/pond pump, 20 feet of tubing for the pump and 20 feet of tubing suitable for a syphon. The best place to get these items is Home Depot, I would recommend a pump rated for at least 230 gph or you'll be waiting for a very long time. Note that Rio Water Pumps are excellent as well, but may cost slightly more.

Syphon the water out of the tank into the trash can, use the pump to syphon the water out of the trash can into your garden or drain area (the water is excellent for garden growth).

Fill the trash can with a mixture of hot and cold water until the desired temperature is reached, preferably around 86 degree's as this is the optimal discus temperature. If you don't have access to hot and cold water you may want to fill a trash can overnight and use a heater to get it up there. You'll also want to do this if your pH changes dramatically over a 24 hour timespan. If this is the case you will need to age the water, which means using an airstone to agitate the water overnight.

After that it's a simple matter of pumping the water back into the aquarium.

It sounds like a lot, but it's honestly a good thing. For me, doing this reminds me of other things that I need to do around the house and I can get them done while doing the water change.

Note that discus are best kept in a bare bottom tank at sizes under 7 inches. It takes around 9 months to grow a juvenille discus to it's full size in a bare bottom tank using the beef heart recipe listed above.

Hope this helps









If anyone is interested in starting a discus tank and would like some experienced information feel free to e-mail me at [email protected] with any questions you might have.


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

Moon,

Thanks again for the post.

The water changes don't worry me as much as the food prep and feeding requirments. 4 day weekends are common for me in the summer too.

Good advice on quick water changes!

Maybe I'll take the dive sometime soon. I'm iching for another tank ...

------------------------------
Karl's Parts And Construction Journal 
Karl's 125 aquascape


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## M0oN (Jan 15, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by kherman:
> Moon,
> ...


http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop....006090712&f=1306023812&m=8696047754
[/QUOTE]

They can live on flake food as well, good eheim automatic feeder will fix your 4 day weekend problem, just be sure to do a large water change beforehand and monitor your nitrite and ammonia closely when you get home...I'd imagine it wouldn't be much of a problem in a planted tank.

http://www.universaldiscus.com/

If you go to that link and click on the Video section it will show you a short clip of discus caring for their young, pretty interesting in my opinion. Worth a glance if you've got a high speed connection


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## Ted Bell (Feb 7, 2005)

Anyone name their fishes? 

Swimmy-Betta
Terry-Plecostomous


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## imported_selena (Oct 4, 2004)

Mr Clean-pleco
Moby- Calico Oranda
Jonas-Betta


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## AL K. (Feb 26, 2005)

I have a 45 with silver dollars and a angel and a tri color shark and want to know what pepole recomend fo plants? I also have a29 with african parrots but the parrots dont bother (it has long fat leaves) told it was amazon sword.


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## Sockfish (Dec 6, 2004)

Names...

6-member Emerald Eye Rasbora school are collectively named "The Naval Academy"

Cherry Shrimp--"Big Red" and "Jubilee"

Dwarf Corys--"Sylvester" and "Felix"

Amano shrimp-- collectively known as "The 7 Samurai"

Powder Blue Guorami--"Cecil"

NanoFigs


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