# HC not spreading



## Fishtory (Jan 21, 2009)

Hi,

I am trying to use HC at the front of my 125. I have: ph=7, injected CO2 1 bps, ferts= PPS-Pro. 
Substrate is eco-complete. I know the substrate is part of the reason the HC doesn't stay down. I have tried: planting the entire rockwool blob with it, separating into 1" sections, separating into 1-stem sections, letting it grow at the top of the tank for awhile then moving it to the substrate. The sections that move over against, say, hairgrass, or some other plant grow very well. But I don't want hair grass and HC tangled together! Yesterday I used tweezers and carefully replanted. Today a lot of it is back up. 

The Hemianthus micranthemoides grows rampantly right beside it, and requires the same parameters. So I don't think it is a light, fert, or similar issue. I think this is about the roots (and maybe the cories who dig at it with their little snouts). Though I do notice that the rest of you can get a nice carpet in only a couple months. 

Should I.......
-have more patience
-let the H. Micranth. take over
-let the hairgrass take over?

TIA


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

You've discovered the joys of HC!  There is no easy answer for you, and it really does depend on your patience. Digging critters will uproot it. You hope enough of it stays down that eventually it will spread as you wish. Otherwise, either of the other 2 options are pretty good.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

If you have perfect conditions for HC like high light, high co2, etc. then you could almost plant it anyway and it will take root and grow fast enough so the fish won't ruin it, but if you conditions are O.K. but less than ideal than I personally would plant it one or a few stems at a time. This allows more light to get in between the stems and it should take off. Eco is also one of the better substrates in terms of holding stems. I have always planted HC this way and without roots, just the stems. I treat it like any other stem plant.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

I agree with house. HC needs very high light to grow (more than HM). If it doesn't get enough light it won't root.

Also, getting enough light in a 125g tank is difficult because of the depth. What are you using for lights?


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## Fishtory (Jan 21, 2009)

Bert H said:


> You've discovered the joys of HC!


oh. 



houseofcards said:


> If you have perfect conditions for HC like high light, high co2, etc. then you could almost plant it anyway and it will take root and grow fast enough so the fish won't ruin it, but if you conditions are O.K. but less than ideal than I personally would plant it one or a few stems at a time. This allows more light to get in between the stems and it should take off. *Eco is also one of the better substrates in terms of holding stems.* I have always planted HC this way and without roots, just the stems. I treat it like any other stem plant.


I stand corrected! I had read that it was one of the worst substrates for HC.



Zapins said:


> I agree with house. HC needs very high light to grow (more than HM). If it doesn't get enough light it won't root.
> 
> Also, getting enough light in a 125g tank is difficult because of the depth. What are you using for lights?


I have 2 36" Nova Extremes, each with 4 bulbs. That comes to 312 watts of lighting. I'm *fairly* sure that light is not the issue, since the pieces that have planted themselves under crypts and HM are doing best of all. (I am willing to listen to all suggestions though )


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## dj2606 (Oct 15, 2008)

Increase your bps to 2-3 from 1. HC is a very needy of Co2


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

If you have 312watts of T5HO than the lighting should be go, assuming the area where you have the HC is not shaded by other plants, etc. epecially in a tall tank like Zapins said. In either event I would try planting the HC by indivdual or a few stems and see if it roots. I don't think Eco is as good as AS for growing HC but it holds easier in Eco since the grain size is smaller.

Increasing co2 usually helps in most situations, but I've grown nice lawns of HC with only Excel as well.


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## dj2606 (Oct 15, 2008)

houseofcards said:


> If you have 312watts of T5HO than the lighting should be go, assuming the area where you have the HC is not shaded by other plants, etc. epecially in a tall tank like Zapins said. In either event I would try planting the HC by indivdual or a few stems and see if it roots. I don't think Eco is as good as AS for growing HC but it holds easier in Eco since the grain size is smaller.
> 
> Increasing co2 usually helps in most situations, but I've grown nice lawns of HC with only Excel as well.


In a 125g?

I think if you have pressurized than use it to your advantage, so crank it up (if that is what the kids are saying these days). My understanding has always been in higher lighting there is a higher demand for nutrients i.e. Co2 and ferts. You could always add fertilizer to the substrate itself also (root tabs)


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

dj2606 said:


> In a 125g?
> 
> I think if you have pressurized than use it to your advantage, so crank it up (if that is what the kids are saying these days). My understanding has always been in higher lighting there is a higher demand for nutrients i.e. Co2 and ferts. You could always add fertilizer to the substrate itself also (root tabs)


I don't think you read my post correctly. Didn't I say:

"Increasing co2 usually helps in most situations, but I've grown nice lawns of HC with only Excel as well."

Point I'm making is that HC does not require co2 to grow, but as long as everything else is inline increasing co2 usually helps.


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## dj2606 (Oct 15, 2008)

houseofcards said:


> I don't think you read my post correctly. Didn't I say:
> 
> "Increasing co2 usually helps in most situations, but I've grown nice lawns of HC with only Excel as well."
> 
> Point I'm making is that HC does not require co2 to grow, but as long as everything else is inline increasing co2 usually helps.


I did. Just curious as to the size of aquarium. The monkey on my shoulder wants to know  Curious how effective excel actually is.

"HC does not require Co2 to grow" Can you explain. Thought plants needed a carbon source.


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## Fishtory (Jan 21, 2009)

Stupid question, maybe... but the HC is in the front of the tank, while the lights rest at the back 1/2 .... above the taller plants. If you draw straight lines the light has to travel the hypotenuse of a triangle to reach the HC, but travels straight down to reach the others, if you get my drift. How much does that affect it?

(Sorry I realize I should just turn up the CO2 and maybe get some root tabs....my mathematical self has taken over!)


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## dj2606 (Oct 15, 2008)

Actually that is a good point. Think about taking a glass of water and putting a pencil in. It appears to be bent. I think we do assume light is traveling straight down. There is an angle at which light is traveling through (not sure what the exact number is). Mmmmmhhh (scratches chin), try making them off center. So that an equal amount of lighting is dispensed throughout the tank.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

The distance of a few inches can significantly reduce the intensity of light getting to the floor in water. So if the light has to travel further diagonally it loses more intensity vs. lights directly overhead.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Light Intensity in Water (in LUX)
------------------------

Distance below surface of water (cm)
----------------------------------------0------------10--------20--------30--------40
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Bulbs and fixture from (3)---16,000 --- 8,800 ---7,700 --6,500 ---5,100

Notes:
1. Measurements made in a 29T gallon tank with fresh, clean water only. 
2. Fixture positioned at back of tank and overhung the sides by 9". 
3. Measurements made below center of bulb. 
4. Bulb center line was 5 cm above water surface.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would estimate your light is 80 cm away from the HC if it is in the back and the HC is in the front. If you follow the trend above you can see that the intensity sharply drops off and is only a fraction of the intensity just under the water's surface. The HC under the crypt might be getting extra light as the light is being focused and reflected off the glass tank walls.

This info is from this thread:
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache...t+intensity+in+water&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


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## Fishtory (Jan 21, 2009)

Zapins said:


> The distance of a few inches can significantly reduce the intensity of light getting to the floor in water.


Ahhhh, I needed to know this. Thank you for doing the thinking for me, Zapins! 

And thanks to others too... I am feeling better about the HC.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

dj2606 said:


> I did. Just curious as to the size of aquarium. The monkey on my shoulder wants to know  Curious how effective excel actually is.
> 
> "HC does not require Co2 to grow" Can you explain. Thought plants needed a carbon source.


What I meant was HC doesn't necessarily require co2 to grow. Seachem excel is a source of carbon for the plants to utilize, but it is not Co2. And I'm not saying excel is as effective as co2, but as I said many plants grow without the addition of pressurized or diy co2.


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## brion0 (Dec 24, 2008)

If you have cories in your tank they will constantly up root HC. I have the same problem, when a stem starts to go along the ground it isn't long an the cories get it pulled up. Its really taking a long time to establish, an I'm starting to get frustrated. I keep hoping that it will get going, but I haven't given up yet. Mine has been getting lots of CO2 an Excel to beat back the algae that seems to like growing on it. The joys of HC I guess.


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## fishscale (Jul 25, 2007)

Huge pain to grow. Did fine for a while, then floated up, taking large chunks of substrate with it.


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