# 23:1 Po4:no3 ???



## yildirim (Nov 25, 2004)

Hello to all,

I'm a bit confused about the ratios to be kept for PO4 and NO3. At this post "http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=2295&highlight=no3%3Apo4", there are so many ratios but what I would like to see is ppm's. 23:1 is also represented by 10:0.4 ppm. Also at some other posts for preventing green spot algea higher PO4 levels are suggested which is now my only concern. It is usualy told to keep PO4 values at 2 ppm for this reason and I wonder if I increase PO4 dosing to optain a steady 2ppm, must I also increase NO3 levels to 50ppm for still having 23:1 (10:0.4) or what. It seems very high to me. Will it go same also for K. Since a month I'm keeping this ratios for NO3O4 as 15:1ppm. There isn't any new kind of algea or any decrease at the amount of GSA.

Tank is 120lt-132watt,ph:6.5,gh:8-9,kh:5-6,DIYCO2

I was not sure if I had to send this post to Algea forum or this one, but I tought it is mostly relevant with dosing. I would like to have some easy to understand comments and suggestions for a new beginner.

Thanks to all,
YILDIRIM


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Yildirim,

About the Ca:Mg ratio:
There isn't a specific ratio that you must maintain at any cost. Best results seem to come with Ca:Mg ratio of 2:1 to 10:1. 

Examples using ppm:

30 ppm Ca
10 ppm Mg
Ca:Mg is 3:1 (30/10=3)

60 ppm Ca
5 ppm Mg
Ca:Mg is 12:1 (60/5=12)

80 ppm Ca
5 ppm Mg
Ca:Mg is 16:1 (80/5=16) <-- in this case the Mg is a bit too low

You probably know how to calculate the Mg by testing for GH and Ca. If not please ask.

--Nikolay


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## yildirim (Nov 25, 2004)

*Wrong post*

Hello Niko,

I think your answer was a wrong post as it is about water hardness not PO4:NO3 dosing ratios.

Thanks,
YILDIRIM


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

I don't think it really matters what ratio you use to dose your tank as long as you don't run out of anything or have too much of anything. I beleive it's more important for the plants to have what they need versus following a certain ratio. I wouldn't dose my tank to 50ppm of NO3 just to keep a ratio correct. 

If you want to up your PO4 to 2ppm, increase it slowly and keep an eye on the NO3 as the tank will probably begin to use more NO3, at least for a while.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Hi yildirim

Ratio is not important, maintaining measurable levels is. We need to make sure plants have nutrients available all the time. 
Here is the _*How to test for Nitrates and Phosphates * _ article with more details.

Edward


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## yildirim (Nov 25, 2004)

*Maintaining measurable levels !*

Hello Edward,

On your reply to my post, you have told that "maintaining measurable levels" are important. Now I wonder if I keep a nutrient level at at least 0.1ppm at all times and not letting it completely depleted, will have the same effect to try keeping it at 1ppm. Because I have this issue for iron and I can never get it higher whether I dose 15ml or 30ml a week. I have asked from one of my friends to test my test kit at his laboratory and he said that it is accurate so I do not suspect from test kit for always giving the same result. But I suspect from Tetra Florapride which is the only trace and iron additive I can find in my country and I can not get any info either from the package or from their website or mails. So this always has been a question mark for me.

Thanks,
YILDIRIM


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Hi yildirim

This thread is talking about NO3 and PO4.
A trace element (Fe) is not like that. We can not test reliably for it. You can find details in the *Trace Elements (TE)* article.

Edward


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

yildirim said:


> Hello Edward,
> 
> On your reply to my post, you have told that "maintaining measurable levels" are important. Now I wonder if I keep a nutrient level at at least 0.1ppm at all times and not letting it completely depleted, will have the same effect to try keeping it at 1ppm. Because I have this issue for iron and I can never get it higher whether I dose 15ml or 30ml a week. I have asked from one of my friends to test my test kit at his laboratory and he said that it is accurate so I do not suspect from test kit for always giving the same result. But I suspect from Tetra Florapride which is the only trace and iron additive I can find in my country and I can not get any info either from the package or from their website or mails. So this always has been a question mark for me.
> 
> ...


You will find a range of uptake rates that changes as concentration changes. 
At the lower end, many plants simply shut down and wait for the nutrient levels to get higher. Their enzymes cannot operate efficiently at very low levels.

Algae on the other hand are still well within range.

You can try many ratios and play with that. As far one ratio being better, generally 10:1 seems good and easy for folks.
But this does not matter........it can be outside the range.

Allowing the NO3/PO4 to fall low can cause issues for a tank's plants.
Especially chronic low ranges.

The other issue with 0.1ppm PO4, there is no practical use for keeping such close narrow ranges. This makes life hard on you dosing.

There are devices such as "chemostats" that do this but they are difficult to keep set up properly.

You can address the trace issue by using the plants as your ultimate test. 
Something that should be and is done anyway. Make sure everything else is in good shape, then add more and more traces till you longer see a positive effective. Add more to see, take at least 3 weeks to judge this per routine. Take the max value at max lighting with fast growers, that will give you the most your tank will ever need.

Excess is fine, traces tend cost more so you can back off a little slowly till you see signs. Macro's are cheap so we can add those liberally.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

plantbrain said:


> Excess is fine, traces tend cost more so you can back off a little slowly till you see signs. Macro's are cheap so we can add those liberally.
> 
> Regards,
> Tom Barr


But Tom, Traces only cost more if it is TMG or Flourish, many of us are fine with CSM Plantex


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