# Emmersed crypt Riparium



## CraigThor

Well I'm really considering changing out my Riparium to a Crypt, Java Fern setup as I'm considering a full blown biotope for my incoming Chocolate Gouramis and the current residents of Betta Albimarginata.

Here is my current base to play with:










Tank is a 150g Reef Ready with the overflows removed and a pair of Eheim 2213's plumbed in along with a pair of Hydor inline heaters and CO2 reactors. Black water setup via black water extract and tons of IAL. Tank is also home to 125 or so Cherry Shrimp. Tank is fed strictly live foods for the fishes well being.

I put on my glass tops today with the back trim piece and with the front lid propped up about a 1/4" I get the following readings:

Relative Humidity 70-72%
Air Temp 80
Water Temp 80

Lighting is 3 70 watt JBJ Viper K-2 Metal Halide setups. Currently have submersed Anubias but would change that out for Java Fern Phillipine. The underwater portion is extremely sparse planted as it is very low light. Tank has Duck weed as a floater as it gives the most natural look.

Now a few questions:

1- What Crypts should I consider? I do have a C. Cilata that is starting to come back as it got snapped off in shipping.

2- I've got 26 small planters and 1 larger planter in thise setup. What should I look at for taller, ~15.25" of air space above the water line, background crypts and shorter bushier for the front. I may also move a couple of various Java Ferns into the emersed part as well.

3- Is there a flaoting plant that would fit the Asain Biotopeness better then the duckweed, I've had many but am always looking for something region specific.

4- I plan on a fogging and possibly misting system any recommendations for a tank this size? I will probably DIY the fogger as I've been doing a bunch of research on them.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

Craig


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## Ghazanfar Ghori

C. pontederifolia, C. willisi x lucens, C. cordata would be a few that would both look good, easy to grow and propagate pretty quick.


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## BJRuttenberg

wow! Very cool.


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## CraigThor

Now an even more complicated question. Are there some that will grow in lower humidty 50% or so? I know my Cilata is doing fine, but as I work on changing this over to a full Biotope I prefer to run open top as this is the show tank in the living room and having glass that is all fogged up won't happen according to hte wife.

Also be interested in other plants from this region as well. I know I've got a Cyrtosperma Johnstonii that is fairly reagion specic (atleast in a broad way)

craig


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## CraigThor

Actually just looked at hte humidty and with glass tops wiht about 3/4" gap front and back I'm currently at 55% humidity and I just put hte gauge back in, I'll monitor it for the day and see where it stabilizes.

Craig


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## Ghazanfar Ghori

Usually you can go as high as 80%ish without the glass fogging up too much.


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## CraigThor

Ghazanfar Ghori said:


> Usually you can go as high as 80%ish without the glass fogging up too much.


Currently sitting at 62% and no fogging, at 70% I start to get alot of fogging with the glass. Now I need to find some sources for some emmersed plants to start replacing the 95% South American Collection I have.

Here is my plan:

Replace Spathephylum spp with Crytocoryne spp
Replace Cyperus spp with Acorus spp
Repalce my various Pilea spp with Pilea Cadierei which is from Vietnam
Replace my Ruellia Brittonia with Limno Aromatica
Replace my spider plant with probably Java Fern of some type
Keep my Colocasia Dwarf plant
Keep my Cyrtosperma Johnstonii

Add some Emmersed Java Ferns to potters and floating rafts
Add some Java Moss

Already replaced my submerged Anubias 'Gold' with Java Fern 'Philipine'

Keep my Nymphoides Indica (snowflake)

Try out some Hygrophilia spp.

Now to try and find or trade for stuff.

Craig


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## CraigThor

Well I made the change. I'm running the top fully covered for hte next week or so till some of my submersed stems that I added start to make the transition to emmersed culture.

I've gotten a bunch of emmersed crypts from various members and most came unlabeled so I just put them in. I may have to rearrange down the road once they grow out.

Some that I know I have gotten.

C. Parva (planted a bunch of this below the water line as well some 6 dozen plants worth  )
C. Cilata (this one is labeled as I had it before the switch)
C. Undulata
C. Usteriana
C. Wendetii X Hybrid
C. Walkeri
C. Green X Hybrid
C. Pontederiifolia
C. Wendetii 'Tropica'
C. Usteriana x Walkeri

Along with all the Cryptocorynes I have the following as well:

Java Fern 'Needle Leaf'
Java Fern 'Tropica'
Java Fern 'Phillippine'
Java Fern 'Trident'
Java Moss
Hyrophilia 'Bihar'
Poacea 'Purple Bamboo'
Limnophilia Aromatica
Cyrtosperma Johnstonii

Everything above it planted in the emmersed section of my Riparium. Now to wait for everything to grow out, I figure it will be a good 4 months to really start filling out the tank.

A few not so great pictures:


































































































Enjoy.

Craig


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## JakeJ

That is sweet Craig! To bad it has to grow in. Patence is my enemy.


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## CraigThor

JakeJ said:


> That is sweet Craig! To bad it has to grow in. Patence is my enemy.


Well I'm as impatient as they come. I like instant results but I know to succeed here it will take alot of time.

Craig


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## rs79

I dunno if crypts can out compete that duckweed...


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## CraigThor

With the use of Metal Halides over my setup even with the top completely covered I need to up the humidty more. I have been manually misting 2-3 times a day and would like to automate it.

This leaves me with 2 options:

Mistking system- comes with seconds timer, can be upgraded when ever I need and I can warm or cool the water based on needs.

Fogging system- Will raise humidty levels but not neccessarily wet the leaves, would have to hook it up to a timer and not sure how effective it would be.

Can anyone provide any insight? I'm leaning towards the MistKing system as it seems to offer the most options and expandability if I want it in the future.

Craig


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## Ghazanfar Ghori

I had a MistKing system - its pretty good, but loud when it goes off.


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## CraigThor

Ghazanfar Ghori said:


> I had a MistKing system - its pretty good, but loud when it goes off.


Noise isn't a big concern, also with the Zip Drip system now available that is susposed to keep it from letting air into the system. I hear that is what makes hte system make noise is as it lets air into and out of the line. I will probably be plumbing the 1/4" tubing through my wall into my closet on the other side so I can keep my resivoir and everything hidden out of the way.

Craig


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## CraigThor

Firgured it was time for a small picture update. I should have some more pictures end of next week once I get the C. Parva and some more emmersed crypts swapped around.


























































































































Craig


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## Ghazanfar Ghori

Thats gonna look awesome once things fill in!


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## CraigThor

Well I got my Mist King system ordered, should be here mid week. Now to work on identifing teh crypts that I currently have. I know there are several that are turning out to be something different then what I was sold but I guess that is how it goes sometimes. 

Ghanzifar you have any Crypts left for sale yet? I may be interested in some more.

Craig


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## Ghazanfar Ghori

I have a handful left. Which ones are you interested in?


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## CraigThor

Ghazanfar Ghori said:


> I have a handful left. Which ones are you interested in?


Here is what I was thinking about picking up.

C. usteriana x walkeri - How does this compare to the regular Usteriana? I've got a regular Usteriana just its in my unlabeled plants and can't seem to tell what is what as most are really small now.
C. ideii A09 - Do you have any left I know it wasn't on your updated list, this one is really cool.

Have to check what I have left for funds before I commit though, Mist King took most of my money. out:

Craig


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## CraigThor

Got my Mist King system yesterday and all I can say is WOW! Makes life so much easier!


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## pianofish

Hey craig!
Could I ask you what crypt is that in pic #3 in the middle? I got one, might actually be from you (can't remember). 

All your plants look great in your tank btw.

Your pal,
Pianofish


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## CraigThor

Upgraded the 2213's to a pair of 2217's and it was a worth while upgrade jsut wish I would have done it from the get go.

Well I'm rehoming my Chocolates to a breeder friend of mine. Going to try and get them to breed in a species tank. This will put me back to a species tank of B. Albimarginata, but may add some Vietnamese White Clouds as dither fish.

With the misting system running I'm getting great growth to start out of my Crypts, I can already see where I need to make a few adjustments with some plants based on growth habits. I've got a few more Crypts coming in this week, hopefully tomorrow. Going to plant 18 pots of C. Parva as a carpet submerged in my tank along with a couple nice sized Usteriana and some Becketii 'Petchi'. 

I added a Lagenandra Thwaitesii that needs some time to grow out as it came from a tank submerged.

Hope to update with some new pictures this week.


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## CraigThor




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## CraigThor




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## Cvurb

Nice! I love your mister! That is so awesome, What is the narrower leafed plant in the leftish middle of the last picture? Is it just narrow leaf Java fern? Once the crypts grow in all the way it will be a awesome Jungle!


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## CraigThor

Cvurb said:


> Nice! I love your mister! That is so awesome, What is the narrower leafed plant in the leftish middle of the last picture? Is it just narrow leaf Java fern? Once the crypts grow in all the way it will be a awesome Jungle!


Yep that is Needle Leaf Java Fern that I has attached itself to the top of a small stump in my tank that is attached to the back wall. You can see that stump in this early picutre of the tank:










The 2 stumps on the back wall are siliconed into place as are the large stump on the right and the small stump in the middle. The tall one on the left is laying down in the tank now as it looks llike a fallen over tree in the water.

Craig


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## CraigThor

Got some more wood in the mail today from Rod (D.S. Drifter) here on the boards. Ended up using one 35" piece in my tank. After the tall stump on the left side got layed down the tank had a small balance issue in my mind. I was always drawn to the right side with the 2 exposed pieces of wood. I knew I didn't want a huge piece but something that looked like a young tree that got flooded and died off. Rod had just the piece for me! With a small cut to make it fit properly and a couple of zip ties to hold it to the fallen log I got my balance back. It does look a bit out of place right now but I think once the Cryptocoryne and Lagenandra species behind it fill it what will smooth the transition. Also once the Java Fern Trident and Java Moss fill around where the 2 pieces meet will help as well. Looks like the big stump toppled in and the small tree got pulled over partially because of it. Here are a few almost decent pictures of the new piece of wood:


















































How does it look to you guys? I think I will really need to let it grow in behind it for everyone to get the feel of what I picture in my head.

Craig


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## Cvurb

Nice, it does look a bit awkward but once the plants behind grow in, it will be amazing.


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## Cvurb

How is it going?


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## 954baby

WOW! The bar has been set! You going to grow anything on that log that is protruding out?


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## CraigThor

A few pictures and a video. Sorry the quality isn't that great I can scape a tank but photography and videography are another story.

Pics:


































Video:



Only thing growing on the large stick out of the water is a few strands of Java Moss as I want to keep teh wood fairly exposed.

Craig


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## Cvurb

Looking good! Especially the submersed Parva! Good job! It looks amazingly natural, perfect! What is the moss growing on the newest piece of driftwood? And the new driftwood really adds to the whole look of the tank, good job! Crypts look nice and healthy as well.


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## ddavila06

nice video! you can actually see the fish in it lol great job!!! how are the usteriana doing?


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## CraigThor

Cvurb- Thanks! The moss is jsut emmeresed Java Moss same as I used in the whole tank.

Ddavila06- Its growing slowly but should get there in a few months

I did score a nice piece of C. Aponagetafolia at hte local meeting tonite I will work it in tomorrow am.


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## ddavila06

C. Aponagetafolia that one looks really nice online! keep updates


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## CraigThor

Mist King in action: http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t164/craigthor/150g Setup/?action=view&current=M2U00099.mp4

Feeding Time: http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t164/craigthor/150g Setup/?action=view&current=M2U00097.mp4

Pictures from just a few minutes ago:


































































Enjoy!


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## CraigThor

Just a video update of the inhabitants... Impaitently awaiting soem Nurii from zezmo

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t164/craigthor/150g Setup/?action=view&current=M2U00104.mp4

Craig


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## Zezmo

First off, let me say that my jaw about dropped when I took a good look at this tank. Is that some emersed cordata? That looks real nice. I really like this Riparium. I was diggin the pearl Gouramis in the video too. It must be fun to see so many of then interacting.



> Impaitently awaiting some Nurii from zezmo


Yah, I was surprised it did not arrive today. But, they are gonnas look awsome in this tank... er after they settle (probably melt) and grow new vibrant leaves.

http://www.wgwguild.com/images/misc/nurii1.JPG
http://www.wgwguild.com/images/misc/nurii2.JPG
http://www.wgwguild.com/images/misc/nurii3.JPG

BTW, if you plan on growing it emersed. I put some in my paludarium, and the leaves turned solid green. I have not yet re-submersed those to see if they get the pink back when under water.


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## CraigThor

Zezmo said:


> First off, let me say that my jaw about dropped when I took a good look at this tank. Is that some emersed cordata? That looks real nice. I really like this Riparium. I was diggin the pearl Gouramis in the video too. It must be fun to see so many of then interacting.
> 
> Yah, I was surprised it did not arrive today. But, they are gonnas look awsome in this tank... er after they settle (probably melt) and grow new vibrant leaves.
> 
> http://www.wgwguild.com/images/misc/nurii1.JPG
> http://www.wgwguild.com/images/misc/nurii2.JPG
> http://www.wgwguild.com/images/misc/nurii3.JPG
> 
> BTW, if you plan on growing it emersed. I put some in my paludarium, and the leaves turned solid green. I have not yet re-submersed those to see if they get the pink back when under water.


Yeah I have a plant of C. Cordata 'Rosenervig' that I got from Ghanzifar. It is finally starting to grow again the new leaves are coming in green on top instead of the redish color but I don't mind. The tank is great to watch with so many fish interacting all the time.

Current stock is:

~110 Gold Ring Danios
30 Dwarf Chain Locahes
10 Pearl Gourami.

If you ever get that Kota Tingii to throw a few runner let me know as it would be a great addition to my tank, that or any other cool crypts. I was really hoping they would have arrived Saturday as I won't get to my PO box till Monday after work now. 

Now to wait anohter year for the C. Parva Carpet I planted to actually fill in. 

Craig


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## Zezmo

> ~110 Gold Ring Danios
> 30 Dwarf Chain Locahes
> 10 Pearl Gourami.


Lol, no wonder I like this tank, 2 out of 3 are some of my favorite fish. And it's chock full of crypts to boot. I have a school of over 25 sidthmunki's in my 72g aquarium (along with my pearl gourami). I think almost more than any other fish I love to watch those chain loaches dance and play in the current. A fish that has to be kept in large schools to truly be appreciated. For some reason, they have alway reminded me of a pod of Orcas..heh.



> Now to wait anohter year for the C. Parva Carpet I planted to actually fill in


.

Oh, yah at least a year before a parva patch looks good. But then it is good for many years after that. Imo, that is why it is the best of all forgrounds. I mean sure, HC looks good too, but who wants to replant the forground every other month.

I poked around in my paludarium last night after reading your thread. No Kota Tingii runners yet. I did find some little 1/4" baby vampire crabs though. Do you have anything living above the water in your Riparium?


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## CraigThor

Zezmo said:


> Lol, no wonder I like this tank, 2 out of 3 are some of my favorite fish. And it's chock full of crypts to boot. I have a school of over 25 sidthmunki's in my 72g aquarium (along with my pearl gourami). I think almost more than any other fish I love to watch those chain loaches dance and play in the current. A fish that has to be kept in large schools to truly be appreciated. For some reason, they have alway reminded me of a pod of Orcas..heh.
> 
> .
> 
> Oh, yah at least a year before a parva patch looks good. But then it is good for many years after that. Imo, that is why it is the best of all forgrounds. I mean sure, HC looks good too, but who wants to replant the forground every other month.
> 
> I poked around in my paludarium last night after reading your thread. No Kota Tingii runners yet. I did find some little 1/4" baby vampire crabs though. Do you have anything living above the water in your Riparium?


Nothing living above yet haven't found the right inhabitant. I really want some Rhacophorous Dilutensis (Jade Tree Frog) but have yet to be able to source them. Any ideas from your end that would look good and be from SE Asia in nature.

Craig


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## Zezmo

Most of the Geosesarma aka "vampire" type crabs come out of that region. They are not compatible with frogs though. I tried to toss in some tree frogs from my Mom's pond up in Oregon. The crabs made quick snacks of them. And, I was afraid the Frogs would eat the crabs!!

The problem with either frogs, or other amphibians..IMO.. Is that they are a bit "messy". Frog waste on the glass and leaves. Let alone what they do in the water. The newts I originally kept in my paludarium, really toxified the water quickly.

Green vine snakes could be cool, I saw a nice paludarium done with those and some kid of long tailed lizards. They would be nasty messy too, and the snake would eat some fish.

That is really kinda it for paludarium critters... crabs, amphibians, snakes, or lizards. Maybe some fancy insects, like those wierd crickets people keep.


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## CraigThor

Zezmo said:


> Most of the Geosesarma aka "vampire" type crabs come out of that region. They are not compatible with frogs though. I tried to toss in some tree frogs from my Mom's pond up in Oregon. The crabs made quick snacks of them. And, I was afraid the Frogs would eat the crabs!!
> 
> The problem with either frogs, or other amphibians..IMO.. Is that they are a bit "messy". Frog waste on the glass and leaves. Let alone what they do in the water. The newts I originally kept in my paludarium, really toxified the water quickly.
> 
> Green vine snakes could be cool, I saw a nice paludarium done with those and some kid of long tailed lizards. They would be nasty messy too, and the snake would eat some fish.
> 
> That is really kinda it for paludarium critters... crabs, amphibians, snakes, or lizards. Maybe some fancy insects, like those wierd crickets people keep.


How big do thsoe crabs get if you don't mind my asking? Also will they do fine with large amounts of water around? May have to look into those!

Craig


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## CraigThor

Here is the change I made last night. I removed all the rafts from the tank. The Java Fern Phillipine got moved to the wood on the far left. I took the moss from the rafts and placed it in the planters and draped it over the planter edge to hide the cup slightly. It will take some time for it to turn nice and green but then should look like the edge of the stream bed. The water is low as I was midst of a water change and figured it was a good time to snap a few pictures. I feel this looks much more natural but will still allow the crypts to grow well. Also hides the planter gravel from view.


































Enjoy.

Craig


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## CraigThor

Just got back with a few critters for hte above water portion. Red Thai Crabs! They will use both the above and underwater portions of the tank. I added a dozen of them they are susposed to be community fish safe by what I have found so far, If they pose a problem out they will go will I can find some Vampire Crabs.


































Craig


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## CraigThor

Well the Red Thais are getting the boot, they have decided my nicest Crypts are the tastiest so out htey go only 4 left to catch!

Craig


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## Zezmo

Yah, Vamppire crabs just eat fish food or bugs. The bodies get about an inch across. Most Geosesarma's are fully amphibious. A lot of these crabs live in bromiliads and such in the wild. They often go into the water to shed.

I like the look of emersed mosses. I have a bunch of different kinds. One piece of wood has a different moss every couple inches. There was an explosion of new moss species that were available last year. Not all of them proved to be fully aquatic. But most do well right near the waters edge.


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## CraigThor

Zezmo said:


> Yah, Vamppire crabs just eat fish food or bugs. The bodies get about an inch across. Most Geosesarma's are fully amphibious. A lot of these crabs live in bromiliads and such in the wild. They often go into the water to shed.
> 
> I like the look of emersed mosses. I have a bunch of different kinds. One piece of wood has a different moss every couple inches. There was an explosion of new moss species that were available last year. Not all of them proved to be fully aquatic. But most do well right near the waters edge.


Thanks good to know, I have successfully removed all the Red Thai Crabs at this point. Back to the drawing board.

Craig


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