# Ca and Mg questions



## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

I was wondering if I need to add a GH booster to add Ca and Mg. I have never added anything for GH booster I just add ferts based on the EI dosing method but its only 25% of the suggested dosing as suggested by another user based on my nutrient levels. However, I was just wondering if I should be adding a booster because I have some nuisance snails in my tank which by the way are the only snails that ever survive no matter how much I try to introduce nerites or something. But ive noticed the shells on the nuisance snails slowly deteriorate over time so I wasn't sure if this is telling me that I don't have enough Ca in my water. My Gh is about 3.6 and KH is 5.4 which to me is a little odd. My tank is a 29gal. My plants have never grown to my satisfaction which sucks because Ive put in so much money to them and havnt been fully happy with how they grow. I have injected co2 run with a ph controller set at 6.7PH without it my ph is about 7.5. My lights are BML dutch 6300K. Algae grows on the tank glass about as fast as I can scrap it off it seems. Currently I have a dimmer on the lights but right now I have it set at 100% lights are on for about 10 hours. Last I checked my nitrates were about 20ppm and phosphates according to Hannah checker was 1.6. Soil is Amazonia and the tanks is years old.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Well, I laugh at EI so you may not want to hear what I have to say about "GH booster" but here it is - expose yourself to something better:

First off as we all know snail shells deteriorate because there isn't enough Ca in the water. Makes sense, bla bla... Except that that's not true. I have 3 tanks which I severely neglected and in all of them the Ca climbs gradually higher and higher because I only add RO water as a top off. So all the salts that are in the tanks gradually get more and more concentrated. 

That may not be such an entertaining topic but it has to do with snails. In all tanks the GH is above 10. In one tank it actually had gotten to 18! And yes, plants do just fine - don't ask me why. They must not have read Amano's words that "softer water grows better plants" and they must not have access to the internet either. But the snails do act funky for sure - I have zero snails as of .. may months now. With Ca throught the roof! How is that for "low Ca causes snail shells to die."?

As usual - you must remember that the tank is not a sum of about 12 things that we constantly regurgitate on the internet. It is more than that and compensation is a big deal and happening all the time - no part of the system does need to be at a certain value for magic to happen.

Reversed KH and GH is not unusual. It is not the end of the world IF you adjust the Ca:Mg ratio. That ratio is usually neglected by most people because aquatic plant enthusiasts love to discuss hip pointless things like equipment and fertliziation. Truth is that if the basics are in line AND consistent the plants will grow and the tank WILL stay clean of algae.

Instead of something labeled "GH booster" get a clean chemical that will provide only Mg or Ca. That would be MgCO3 and CaCO3. Ebay is your friend. Look for lab grade chemicals. Yes, the internet clowns will say that Carbonates do not dissolve in water well and will cloud your tank. That is what happens in the virtual world though. In reality they both work exceptionally well and do NOT add any extra crap to your tank (Sulphur or Chlorides). 

So here you have it. And yes, there is more - the usual traces we use are also a primitive idea. They do load the tank with trace elements that are not used and just sit there doing who knows what but definitely not improve anything. Toxicity is a big factor in planted tanks and changing water to resolve that is like watching kids cook - rather amusing, but also dumb. Maybe toxicity from adding what not through "following EI" is affecting your snails? What a novel idea, eh?


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## burr740 (Mar 6, 2015)

Not sure why you are only dosing 25% EI with high light and CO2..unless the tank is sparsely planted? Micros are probably fine at that level but there's a good change you are low on certain macros. P for one, if the algae on the glass is green spot. Any other signs of deficiency?

With GH of 3.6 it certainly wont hurt anything to raise it 1 or 2 degrees via GH booster. That could very well be the problem with snails, and plants too even if it's not obvious.

If you are using tap water, can probably google your city's water report and see roughly how much Ca and Mg it has. Sometimes even with high GHs only one will be present is adequate amounts.


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

Thanks for the replies guys I think I will try to begin adding some Ca and Mg see how everything reacts because I've never added it and my plants have never really been super well off the hardest part was I was never around to monitor it enough now I am so im really trying to find out the culprit I've tried all kinds of different fert methods including EI regular, pps, combination of both and also ADA still have problems. For long time before i rescaped it had really high nitrates and low phosphates now not so much. Plant growth seems to be going but really slow and algae still going strong like always. Here is some pictures of the tank.























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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

It is not odd that the GH and KH are different. 
In terms of hobby level test kit results your levels are close enough to be thought of as similar. Not way out of line, like some tests show. 

At this point I would raise the GH by 1-2 degrees using either a GH booster that contains both Ca and Mg, or each mineral separately. Read the label on the GH booster and make sure it does not contain salt (sodium chloride). Some GH boosters will include potassium. Check the amount. For some, this amount is enough to throw off the rest of the fertilizer schedule. 

When you check the NO3, how does this timing relate to water changes and fertilizer dosing? 
Does the value rise through the week? Being lowest right after a water change, then highest right before a water change?


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## Yo-han (Oct 15, 2010)

It looks like GDA on your glass. I only had this twice, both times was when I was working with RO water. I mixed it with tap water to get the right KH, but the tap water contained almost only Ca, very little Mg. I added Mg, and GDA stopped growing in a few weeks and plants grew better again. You have low GH and GDA... Why not give it a try! It certainly won't hurt your tank!

I always keep as a general rule, KH kan be almost zero, but GH needs to be at least 4-5 for your fish and plants. Both use calcium and magnesium. Second, I always get suspicious when KH is higher than GH, this means there is either sodium or potassium in the water. Potassium, fine, sodium, not very benificial for you plants!


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

I have bobs gh booster so I'm not sure what's in it I added one teaspoon this week his website says 1 tablespoon for 3 degrees for 20 gallons. I only add tap water to my tank that comes from our treatment plant. Our water is pretty soft but like I've said I've never added gh booster but maybe I'll add another teaspoon. I would like to get a more comprehensive water report but can't find it online they just have a few parameters so I might see if I can call my water plant. I haven't really increased my water changes or anything than my normal but nitrates went down after I removed most of my plants so I wonder if that wasn't the main contributor to the excess nitrates from decay. 


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

What is the GH of the water out of the tap? 

Does 1 tablespoon of Bob's GH booster raise the GH by 3 degrees in a 20 gallon tank? 

When you are making changes to the water chemistry go slow. Do a little today (perhaps 1 degree higher), then allow the fish to adapt to it. Then do a little more (another degree) in a few days.

Really easy to find the ingredients in Bob's GH booster, it is at the web site. 
"GH Booster - 1 part MgSO4﻿ 3 parts CaSO4﻿ and K2SO4"


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

I added gh booster like maybe Monday and I tested it again tonight and it's down to 60ppm again so I'm not sure if it raised it enough or if it's possible the plants sucked it up already what are your thoughts I thought I raised it 2dgh but I also didn't test it after I added it. Any help the algae came back strong today so I scraped it again too


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Add more GH booster.

Change more water.

Do more


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Ditto- add more and test it after it has had a chance to dissolve. Yes, plants and livestock will remove these minerals from the water, but usually not in such large amounts that it is obvious from hobby level test kits. Still, if it is disappearing, something is using it!


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

Alright I will continue to do that and maybe I will see some results! I also reduced my light period to about 9.5 hrs from 11


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

How quickly can I test my water hardness after adding the gh booster to see where it raised it to


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

I decided to test this morning after adding last night it seemed as though it was back to the original level as when I dosed the booster so I added more and will test again to see if it changed any either that or I can't read that test 


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## Maryland Guppy (Mar 5, 2015)

elkhunter said:


> How quickly can I test my water hardness after adding the gh booster to see where it raised it to


I try to wait for 4 hours. Very over anxious.
Figure this has moved the tank water around enough.
Have tested water parameters sooner and seen no change.
For me 4 hours has moved the water around 16x.
24 would be a better test time IMO.

I have a tank that the KH recently dropped to zero.
Dosing CaCO3 and baking soda this evening.
Also PO4 dropped to nothing, hair algae has started but not too strong.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

If you dissolve the GH booster really well before adding it to the tank (shake it really well in a jar of water), then pour it right in front of the flow from the filter I would then give it an hour or so, then test again a few hours later, just in case more dissolved. 

If you are adding it dry, I would give it several hours, perhaps overnight to dissolve. 

It may also depend on what product you are using. I find Seachem Equilibrium rather difficult to dissolve. Barr's GH booster seems to dissolve a lot easier (yet they are basically the same material)


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

Ok I tested it fairly soon after I added it maybe an hr the last time and it raised it 1ppm for sure so it probably worked as it should I just think maybe if possible the plants just sucked it all up so fast that there was hardly even a difference the first time I added it. I recently contacted our local water supplier to see what kind of fert levels are in my tap so I have a better basis for what's in the tap but the dang green algae is still showing up so I added a drop checker as well to see if the co2 is reading good because it was just based on KH and PH with controller to get co2 so since some other factors effect KH I thought I would use drop checker to also check for sufficient co2 


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Get the drop checker. The KH/pH charts are valid only when the pH is being controlled only by carbonates and carbon dioxide. While these are the big ones, there are some other things that are often in the tanks that could mess with that ratio. For example if you have wood, peat moss, decomposing leaves and other things then the pH will be lower. 

I do not think the plants use it that fast. I wonder if something else is removing enough of these minerals to make the test change so fast.


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

Yeah I don't know what it would be though I don't add anything except aqua safe for chlorine when I change water and then I think my filter is just bio balls and pads and I think a thing of Purigen and maybe some carbon not sure on the carbon though although I don't think either of those should remove those. Now for my drop checker and controller if the drop checker isn't light enough green do I just turn down be PH on the controller to get the co2 lower? 


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

The only other thing I could think of would be the aqua soil but I don't know if that should still be lowering it 


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Aquasoil is known to remove carbonates (measured with the KH test). 
I am not sure if it removes Ca or Mg, but I do not think so. You could easily test this by putting a handful or two in a jar of water with a known GH. If the GH drops with just the Aquasoil in the jar then you know that this is where some of the minerals are going. Let us know.


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

I also remembered that I've never wiped the glass off of the light fixture and I'm hoping that will help too because it was pretty crusty with water spots because I have an open top. My plants are pearling pretty good the last two days after cleaning that and I can't seem to get my ph lower than 6.6 but I turned the co2 up a tad to see if it could get down to 6.5 where I set it to get the drop checker to go a little lighter green


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Cleaning the light is a very good idea!


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

Havnt had substantial changes yet but we will see I actually splurged and bought some more ADA Ferts to see how things react since my other Ferts were out but after these are gone I will use knowledge from what's Ada is made of and what I saw out of my plants


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## elkhunter (May 24, 2012)

I lowered the ph so the drop checker is showin a more yellow color and no obvious signs of fish stress so I think my co2 should be good now lots of pearling still getting some algae growth doesn't seem as fast my PH is now at 6.5. So I will see how quickly the algae grows 


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Sounds like you are zeroing in on the problem(s). Looking forward to hearing the results.


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