# Old bulbs causing algae?



## doubleott05

Ok so i have been in the hobby for sometime now. I consider myself knowledgable.
and now... I am second guessing myself. I was sure i had this answered myself but....
I need a question answered.


I have an old maybe 18 months old ADA 8000k hqi bulb. 
being this old can it cause an outbreak of algae not normally seen?
I have been meaning to replace it but they are $$$ and i have tried everything to control the algae but i have come to the conclusion that it is my old bulb.

Thanks everybody


Other questions (no so important but curious)
I know that as bulbs deteriorate that they loose color quatity.
Take a toll on plant quality growth. 
(are these true statments?

I did alot of looking around at the threads but didnt find much. 
im pretty anal about replacing my bulbs but they are so $$$ and im so poor. LOL


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi Elliott,

I have to remind myself, especially this time of year, that the longer hours of daylight mean my tanks are getting more ambient light. Is the tank in a room with windows, especially south or west facing?


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## doubleott05

wow not an answer i was expecting

I never thought of that. your really and outside of the box thinker.

well this tank is about 3 ft from a window facing the NNE. But the blinds are usually down and closed. They let in some light but not much.

Also worth noting. this tank is about 10 Ft away from another tank in the room that has a 150W MH hqi on it. But that tank does not have any algae problems.

thats a good thought Seattle. Thanks


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## bartoli

To avoid unnecessary toxic waste, I do NOT change out bulbs at regular interval. I use bulbs until they burned out. Algae was seldom an issue. On those occasions when algae did become an issue, they were due to over-feeding or too much light.


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## doubleott05

well i def dont over feed. 

and i had that tank set up for months then all the sudden algae from out of no where. i think its the bulb. 

i guess im not gonna get much help on this question.

thanks anyway

ill just get a new bulb and report my findings.


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## hariom

well, i have been having similar problems and was about to post something on this...good you started a thread.

I had on my 72 gallon, a 4x 65W 6700K Corallife and 2x65W 10,000K Coralife bulbs for over a year now, some in the 4 unit are close to over 2 years...

the light is still considerable but the intensity has gone down..one thing i have noticed over a period of time is that lower leaf growth on some plants like broad leaf pogostemon stellatus or Alternanthera reineckii decays quickly and will either float or get caught into filter inputs...my other stem plants are doing fine ....but most high light ones are decaying very quickly.

so if you are seeing plants shedding their bottom areas and only retaining their upper tops then you can definitely conclude it is cause the light cannot penetrate lower levels...

Also, i started to get heavy amounts of BBA and hair algae only on my eco-complete substrate even with my heavy co2 injection and proper EI nutrient dosing. No algae appears on tank walls or plants which was very weird to me...

finally i concluded that the lights needed to be changed and i have replaced all of them with GE 9325K ones...lets see if things change.,..ill post pictures tomo of my situation...its too late now...

hope this helps...


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## joshvito

did you try switching the bulb with another tank, before you go buy another?
It sounds as if you have multiple hqi bulbs.


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## doubleott05

i only have one Hqi light and thats the one i think i need to change. i just got new coralife 6700k pc 55w lights. they are a month old

the Hqi is almost 2 years-3 years old i think. lol so i think that is my algae problem right there.

hariom only is using PC bulbs.


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## joshvito

sorry, I thought you said you had another tank nearby with an hqi.


> Also worth noting. this tank is about 10 Ft away from another tank in the room that has a 150W MH hqi on it. But that tank does not have any algae problems.


I'm not so sure bulb age is causing your algae. 
You could test it by decreasing your ferts. If the old bulb is causing the algae, you are assuming it is not putting out as much light as previous. Therefore, if the ferts are slowly decreased to match the light output, you will once again reach a light - fertilizer balance.
Then you will know if your bulb has lowered output.



> Other questions (no so important but curious)
> I know that as bulbs deteriorate that they loose color quatity.


the color of the bulb makes no difference on plant growth, it is purely a preference to viewer. (I've read this multiple places on this forum, tested it myself, and read a magazine article by Tom Barr in FAMA)http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/7379-Light-Spectra-and-Kelvin?p=51746#post51746


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## doubleott05

bulbs kelvin degrees ..do.. make a difference in plant growth. 

if they dont they why do so many people choose a color Kelvin degree of 5000k-10000k 
tom barr is correct in the fact that people can choose there own spectrum of lighting for personal preferance. a light spectrum within the kelvin parameters listed above(i have said this also, but i am not a known aquarium expert either. so my word does not count for much.)


why do dealers sell bulbs with that color quality listed specifically for plants?
why do most crypts melt when a bulb of equal quality but differnt Kelvin color is introduced?

if it didnt make a difference why not use a 3500k or a 2000k or a 13000k or a 14000k or the simple $2 incandesant bulb sold at the local grocery store. the answer is simply because the color thoes bulbs admit adversly affects growth of the plants.... or encourages different types of growth.

(example: i believe the blue spectrum creates long leggy stems with gimpy leaves. 
red creates short bushy plants lacking color.)

now as fars a decreasing ferts i have tried that. good suggestion though. i tried increasing them too. it really had no effect. i tried both applications for 3 weeks each. 

i really think its cause of an old bulb....

well see when i get my new ADA 8000k hqi in.

thanks for your input Joshvito.


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## doubleott05

heres another thought....

as a bulbs intensity decreases so does its ability to penetrate into a tank. thus the lower level leaves do not recieve light and eventually dying off. this in turn creates extra waste in the tank, deteroriating water quality and eventually allowing an acceptable medium for the creation of algae to grow freely with a new source of nutrients or nitrates. 

makes sense to me....

thanks
Elliot


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## Newt

doubleott05 said:


> heres another thought....
> 
> as a bulbs intensity decreases so does its ability to penetrate into a tank. thus the lower level leaves do not recieve light and eventually dying off. this in turn creates extra waste in the tank, deteroriating water quality and eventually allowing an acceptable medium for the creation of algae to grow freely with a new source of nutrients or nitrates.
> 
> makes sense to me....
> 
> thanks
> Elliot


Your thoughts are right on. Letting bulbs get old/weak is the same thing as removing a bulb from over the tank. I cant speak too much about MH/AQI as I have never used them. I used to work for Sylvania and had access to info and equipment. I have personally done alot of hands on testing of different fluorescent bulbs. Until recently I used GroLux (T12s) bulbs for dawn/dusk lighting and they lose 60% of their output/energy in 6 months time; so I would change them out every six months. I can tell you 55w/65w CFs/PCs need to be changed out anually, T12s every six months, most T8s annually (have found the Philips Aquarelles to last a good 2 years and the ADV850s almost that length of time) and T5HOs can go for 2 years. As soon as you see blackening on the ends of your fluorescent tubes the cathode is kaput and you have lost at least 50% output energy.


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## doubleott05

Ha!!! there you go folks right from a seasoned expert from sylvania. i was right 

"its like removing a bulb"...

Thanks Newt!!!!


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## hariom

yes....and its a vicious cycle....

extra organics in my case....started to build up surface scum...which further was deteriorating light penetration thus increasing organic build up....

further more, i removed all my black mollies from the tank which where all this time eating the scum....and keeping the water clean..

so apart from adding new lights...i have reintroduced my scum spill crew to counter attack and get things back in control..

only wish there were some oil eating fish in the gulf.... :|


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## doubleott05

ya that would be nice.... oil eating fish.. 

we should create a hybrid...


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## doubleott05

i got my replacement bulb 
an 8000k ADA HQI 150w and let me tell you i forgot that MH is supposed to shimmer till i put in the new bulb. wowzers its bright. the other 2 year old bulb looks like a flash light next to this thing. 

now if my theory is correct my algae problem should be under control in about a week.


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi Elliott,

Please keep us updated on the results!


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## doubleott05

//// REPORT STATUS/// 5 hrs later update from new bulb insertion..

ok so its been 5 hrs from the swap and my tank is pearling like crazy. i havent seen it do this in about 5-6 months

water seems clearer for some reason. could be from intensity of light. 

fish appear much more colorful.

oh and most im portantly stems are pearling and appear more colorful as well. 


///END REPORT


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## doubleott05

//// REPORT STATUS/// 4 days later update from new bulb insertion..

ok so its been 4 days from the swap. 

The next day most of my RED type plants turned red.( they were green before.) 

TODAY: the water has cleared signifigantly. all RED type plants are hella red now and all of the plants in the tank have just taken off. 

now to the algae. 
some of the algae has died off in a couple of days . and some of the other algae has taken off. 
i think im gonna back my lights to 8hrs a day from 10hrs a day. and then have the HQI on for maybe 4-6 hrs a day and my 2x55w CF on for 8hrs. 

and then add lots of water changes to accound for the changes. 

so i think the acessment so far would be fair to say that having fresh bulbs is def worth it and was the cause of my problem.

///END REPORT///

all comments and thoughts are appreciated 
thanks guys


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi Elliott,

Appreciate the update, it is easy for me to forget that bulbs loose their intensity from use over time because the change is so gradual.


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## doubleott05

//// REPORT STATUS/// 8 days later update from new bulb insertion..

ok so its been 8 days from the swap. 

i have my 2x55w bulbs on for 6hrs and my 150 8000k HQI on for the 4hrs in between. this cycle has allowed my plants to stand up fairly straight instead of being pushed down by the light ( when i did this all my stems stood up about another approx 4in. the light was pushing them down) so this allows for plenty of light intensity with a good photo period in general.

plants are growing like crazy. i had to trim some stray renegades that decided to take off with out me.

the new intensity actually stopped the growth on my pogostegmon stellatus and forced it to form 4 new side shoots 3 nodes from the crown.

only one algae species is left its some type of green powder algae on the wood it brushes off very easly. infact i just wave my hand under water and it just blowes off in the current i created. i think wit some water changes i can vaccume it out.
\///END REPORT///

comment: i think up to date light bulbs does affect the overall health of the planted aquaria


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## Emily6

I'm glad you guys posted all this so thoroughly- I always wondered if I was a chump for putting the little sticker on my calendar to replace the bulbs. I always pushed it that extra couple months, just to see. I even added them one at a time to note the difference- there definitely is one. 

Now also food for thought- I read some website about the watt/gallon rule and the (very cocky) author's take was basically denouncing it as worthless since below an undisclosed size tank, it doesn't work. At what point do you folks feel the rule stops applying? For example, 3 watts over a 1 gallon tank won't support much of anything. But according to the rule, this is "high light." His other big point was largely that compensating for depth in your average aquarium isn't really important unless it's an especially murky tank. 

Having just doubled the depth of my tank yet only added 25 gallons, I'm not sure if my 110 watts of compact fluorescent light on top of 65 gallons is a problem. Thoughts?


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi Emily6,

I run a 96 watt AH Supply PC with the MIRO 4 reflectors over my 36" long 45 gallon and it does fine. I am thinking about a 75 gallon so I called Kim (guy) at AHS and he recommended a 4X55 watt system.

I usually figure at less than a 20 gallons the 2 WPG guideline doesn't apply.


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## Emily6

Thanks for the insight- I feel that I'm in an awkward lighting range where I could really use a few more watts but not something crazy. Plus, in fantasy land, the plants I like best will grow with what I have and I won't need to buy another light.  But when does that work out?


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## doubleott05

well its def not a problem but for my personal taste its not enough light for me. 

i for one totally believe in the watt per gallon rule. (but not as a standard but as a guideline rather) for me three watts per gallon is the lowest i will go in terms of lighting. i for one prefer lighting in the 4wpg + . 

now as far as depth is concerned a HQI type setup will take care of your depth penetration problems. 

all of these recordings and thoughts are of a personal nature and i do not intend to sway anybody to my thinking. most people think i run over kill with my lighing schemes. but they fit my personal taste. 

so as a rule of thumb for others do what your confortable with and what you personally like and are confortable with and can afford.

thanks everybody

another update in 2-3 days.


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## Emily6

Another thought I had about the fading of bulbs is that maybe it's not as big of a deal if you operate in the middle to higher spectrum. Perhaps I'm revealing my misunderstanding of the whole spectrum thing but as you drift out of your target range, you could drift into ranges that are still effective- just not what you started with. So some people would notice it more than others. Does that make any sense? Am I up to late and need sleep? ;-)


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## doubleott05

well that range could be effective but.... you have to remmeber that your not used to operating your tank in thoes ranges and neither are your plants and i think that is why you have die offs. the plants that your using are not used to thoes light spectrums and you didnt start the tank that way either. 

so yes i think you might be right to some degree but we are all so used to operating at %100 that when it drop in effectiveness we dont know how to adjust ourselves

hope that makes sense


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## Emily6

I see what you're saying- it's the transition that throws things out of whack. Or into whack. :-/ Makes sense. And one is probably not adjusting the ferts or CO2 to match the effective wattage (because how could you?) so an imbalance is created regardless of the plants' adjustment to spectrum.


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## Newt

Watts really only works as a constant for incandecent bulbs with different manufacturers. Watts is a unit of power input - its a measure of energy conversion. By the definitions of electric potential (volt) and current (amp): work is done at a rate of 1 watt when 1 ampere flows thru a potential difference of 1 volt. As you can see this has little to do with light output.

Watts per gallon never really worked with fluorescents. Maybe with T12 with the way the rating was done; but not for small and very large tanks. However, fluorescent tubes vary as to output with spectral color and the energy(microeinsteins) within a given spectrum of light as do faces on people. Now you have T8, CF/PC, T5, T5HO, etc. in the mix. 

Currently I'm using overdriven T8s, with T5HO and CFs. There is no way the watts per gallon rule can begin to comply with this.


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## Emily6

So I guess the moral of the story is that the best indicator of sufficient lighting with CF bulbs is how the plants are doing. Without driving yourself crazy, anyway.


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## doubleott05

this is a thread recording the effect of new vs. old bulbs on my tank for others to read. and to take what they wnat from it. its is not to prove or not prove what you think is or isnt an effective rule. 

like i said i use it not as a standard but as a guideline. this has not only worked but been effective for me over the years as well. now if it does not work for you or you dont believe in it then thats fine. this thread is not intened to mislead anybody but to inform and be educational. they can take from it what they like.

yes emily your quite right CF's do help wiht knowing your plants reactions. andnwhen you go to replace your bulbs once every 9-12 months you will def notice a difference in intensity. and bulb color quality.

more updates to come


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## doubleott05

//// REPORT STATUS/// 12 days later update from new bulb insertion..

ok now that i have changed my lighting pattern( see post above for lighting pattern if you forgot) my plants have/are growing even faster. they have lost some of there red color, due to not so much concentrated light, but take up for that in growth speed. Let me explain....

in three days ALL of my stem plants have grown 3-4inches!!!!

i have a feeling once they get pretty close to the top of the tank they will slow down and color back up. .

im thinking about trimming today im not sure.

the water has cleared tremendously since i changed the lighting schedule. i can read a book through 3ft of water. and all the algae is nearly gone. Woo Hoo!!

enjoy


///END REPORT///

remember folks this is not a debate or arguement just simply im recording results from my experience with new light bulbs. 
all comments and thoughts are appreciated 
thanks guys


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi Elliot,

Thank you for the ongoing update. We hear that "old bulb" can effect plant growth, algae, etc. but it is nice to have it confirmed.


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## HeyPK

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi Emily6,
> 
> I run a 96 watt AH Supply PC with the MIRO 4 reflectors over my 36" long 45 gallon and it does fine. I am thinking about a 75 gallon so I called Kim (guy) at AHS and he recommended a 4X55 watt system.
> 
> I usually figure at less than a 20 gallons the 2 WPG guideline doesn't apply.


The AHS guy is right. I tried a 96 watt on my 75 and it was too short and light coverage was poor at the ends. The 55 and 96 watt power compacts hardly last a year before they quit entirely. When AH Supply first went into business, he sold 40 watt PC's and they lasted four times as long.

I am going to reconfigure the light for my 75 to have 6 four foot T8 bulbs, two bulbs to a ballast and a switch for each ballast. The arrangement will give me three light levels, two, four, or six bulbs. Four bulbs is pretty good for a 75, and the extra two will be useful when the bulbs become weak.


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## doubleott05

well good im glad you appreciate the updates. i knew that old bulbs caused problems i just had a doubt in my mind that somehow it could be wrong.

but..... im right. as many others are about new bulbs keeping your tank healthy. 

well boys and girls either i can close my thread confirming that old bulbs do cause algae and other problems or i can continue my updates if you like.

you decide

thanks


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## HeyPK

I never had the experience where old bulbs caused algae, just a bit less light. I have never used MH bulbs, just fluorescent, and I suspect, from what you said about how much brighter the new one was compared to the old one, that MH bulbs, as they age, reduce their output by many many times before they go out. I have seen that in street lamps. Most of my fluorescents don't get a whole lot dimmer before they quit. So, the conclusion seems to be that the new MH is many times brighter and that the plants perked up, started growing rapidly, and then the algae mostly went away. Sounds reasonable to me.


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## doubleott05

good accessment PK.

not to mention the rapid growth allowed the plants to soak up excess nutrients thus starving out the algae. and penetrating deep enough to get to the lower leaves so that they dont die off as quickly or at all.

thanks everybody


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## blue thumb

My opinion I don't think old bulbs cause algae. Cause you can grow algae with new bulbs just as well. I think there is other things causing algae blooms if your having algae problems. Old bulbs may not grow the plants to there optimum potential is all I see they would do.


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## Newt

blue thumb said:


> My opinion I don't think old bulbs cause algae. Cause you can grow algae with new bulbs just as well. I think there is other things causing algae blooms if your having algae problems. Old bulbs may not grow the plants to there optimum potential is all I see they would do.


Its not that the old bulbs themselves cause algae BUT it alters the balance of the aquarium and thus algae has the potential to get a foothold. So in a sense old bulbs will enable algae to grow if all other parameters remain constant and light is diminished.


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## Seattle_Aquarist

+1 Newt,

Sort of like this:

Old bulbs = bad plant growth = more nutrients for algae = better algae growth


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## doubleott05

+2 newt... enabling

+1 Seattle for complex scientific equation
----------------------------------------
+3

buahahahaa

thanks all for comments. i have another update coming soon.


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## bartoli

Newt said:


> Its not that the old bulbs themselves cause algae BUT it alters the balance of the aquarium and thus algae has the potential to get a foothold. So in a sense old bulbs will enable algae to grow if all other parameters remain constant and light is diminished.


Yes, the key is in maintaining a balance. When a bulb does not give out as much light as when it was new, reduce the amount of feeding to maintain water column nutrient balance.

For people maintaining a manicured water garden, they need to change out the bulb every so often to ensure continuing excellent plant growth. But for me, plants are mainly water filter and therefore I can use bulbs till they died.


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## doubleott05

as everyone has excellent points in reducing ferts, feeding and such. 

ponder this:

can anybody every tell to the naked eye when the bulb has reduced intensity? 

i believe the answer to be "no they cannot" or at least i definitly cant. (you get desensitized to the bulb over time and as it looses intensity you "get used to it".

so what is to be inferred from this:
is that since you cannot tell a difference in bulb intensity, you would not be able to adjust feeding and fert schedule. hence, the reason why you matain a fine medium in old/new bulb ratio to keep your tank healthy by replacing it every so often whether it be a year or 8 months.

does anybody second this theory?


thanks


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## Newt

2nd


No way you can tell when and how much intensity has been lost. You could with a side by side comparison or instrumentation that most of us dont have. Bulbs like the GroLux Std is even harder to tell as there is alot of blue and red (human eye not sensitive to) and very little green light.

Black ends = defunct cathode = change it out. Some bulbs will not show black ends even thou intensity has dropped off 60% or more.


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## doubleott05

+1 to the newt on no black ends.

mods is it possible to make this a sticky so all can benifit from the discussion? 
if we need to change the thread title we can.

thanks


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## bosmahe1

Can we assume that the red and blue light would diminish at the same rate as the green? Probably not because that would be too simple and convenient.


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## Newt

Yes. The cathod tube decays and all light in the spectrum is affected.
You cant escape cathode tube decay.


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## bartoli

doubleott05 said:


> since you cannot tell a difference in bulb intensity, you would not be able to adjust feeding and fert schedule.


For a stable tank with consistent feeding and maintenance, the gradual appearing of algae is often a good indicator of too much feeding (relative to the amount of available lighting).


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## doubleott05

maybe too much feeding for some. but i for one am guilty of fish starvation.


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## bartoli

doubleott05 said:


> maybe too much feeding for some. but i for one am guilty of fish starvation.


For algae prevention, the focus is on the left over nutrient in water which gives algae a chance to grow. May be your tank does not have enough plants or plant variety.

In a heavily planted tank, individual plants only have to take in a minute portion of what they need from the water before all the available nutrients are gone. But in a sparsely planted tank, each of the plants may have to take in their full portion of nutrient need before there is no nutrient left in the water. Thus, the gradual drop of light level from an aging bulb is more likely to cause algae in a sparsely planted tank.

Also, due to the diversity of lighting requirements, a tank containing a wide variety of plants is less prone to algae from aging bulb.

With help from the above factors, one can use a bulb for a much longer life span without algae problem.


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## Newt

bartoli said:


> For algae prevention, the focus is on the left over nutrient in water which gives algae a chance to grow. May be your tank does not have enough plants or plant variety.
> 
> In a heavily planted tank, individual plants only have to take in a minute portion of what they need from the water before all the available nutrients are gone. But in a sparsely planted tank, each of the plants may have to take in their full portion of nutrient need before there is no nutrient left in the water. Thus, the gradual drop of light level from an aging bulb is more likely to cause algae in a sparsely planted tank.
> 
> Also, due to the diversity of lighting requirements, a tank containing a wide variety of plants is less prone to algae from aging bulb.
> 
> With help from the above factors, one can use a bulb for a much longer life span without algae problem.


No


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## bartoli

Newt said:


> No


Very informative, thanks


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## doubleott05

+1 newt. 

my tank was packed with plants. many of you saw my tank and it was hella full.

i think it has been prooven that old bulbs are def a contributing factor to overall tank health and algae prevention/growth depending on the state of ones bulb. 

yes feeding can cause algae but you gotta be givin then steak or something everyday cause i feed like once every other/3 days

thanks guys


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## doubleott05

ok the final update on my new bulb.

in the final 6 days before i tore teh tank down for rescaping 
my plants grew 5" thats crazy 

all of the algae had died or dissapeared. 

so my conclusion is that new vs. old bulbs can have a dramatic effect on your overall tank health. 

anybody second this conclusion ??

well i hope i have cleared up some questions or thoughts for the community 

if anybody wants i can continue my lighting results updating with my new scape 

let me know 

thanks
Elliot


PS mods any thoughts on making this a Sticky?


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## bartoli

doubleott05 said:


> my tank was packed with plants. many of you saw my tank and it was hella full.


When you were not over-feeding your fish and your tank had a wide variety of plants, then the algae was probably due to the dosing of plant nutrients. When lighting level drops and the dosing remains the same, it can give algae a chance to grow.


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## doubleott05

bartoli said:


> When you were not over-feeding your fish and your tank had a wide variety of plants, then the algae was probably due to the dosing of plant nutrients. When lighting level drops and the dosing remains the same, it can give algae a chance to grow.


this has been discussed on like page two i think. i did change my fert schedule. for a few weeks.

it has been confirmed that old bulbs will allow algae to grow under given conditions. if perhaps you only skimmed through the thread you would see that nearly all conditions had been covered even conditions we cannot see with the human eye nor control remotly due to the inability to measure a given situation.

thanks 
elliot


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## bartoli

doubleott05 said:


> this has been discussed on like page two i think. i did change my fert schedule. for a few weeks.


Yes, you had decreased dosing for 3 weeks and then increased for another 3 weeks. Judging from what you had reported on the dramatic difference between the old and new bulb, my speculation is that your dosing decrease was not as large as the plant intake decrease caused by the lowered lighting level. Thus, algae continued to grow.


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## doubleott05

ok bartoli .... you win.


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## bartoli

doubleott05 said:


> ok bartoli .... you win.


What are you trying to say?

Earlier you said you had tried several ways to continue using an existing bulb without causing algae. But algae continued to be a problem. One of the ways you'd tried was reducing dosage. I offered the explanation that may be your dosage reduction was not large enough in relation to the reduced nutrient consumption by plants. The next time when running into a similar situation, one possibility is having a much greater dosage reduction than before. Isn't that what you were looking for - a potential way of using an existing bulb longer without causing algae?


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## doubleott05

no thats not it at all. 

i was simply offering that old bulbs can cause algae. 
my theory has been prooven. 

all the methods mentioned above was what i tried to do to adjust to the medium. 

i knew the bulb was causing it.


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## bartoli

Well, this is what you wrote in the thread-opening post:



doubleott05 said:


> I have been meaning to replace it but they are $$$ and i have tried everything to control the algae but i have come to the conclusion that it is my old bulb.


I interpreted that to mean you were trying to use the old bulb without causing algae.


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## blue thumb

Newt said:


> Its not that the old bulbs themselves cause algae BUT it alters the balance of the aquarium and thus algae has the potential to get a foothold. So in a sense old bulbs will enable algae to grow if all other parameters remain constant and light is diminished.


Well with the parameters you set around the bulb yes can grow algae. But I don't believe the bulb in itself is the cause. 18 months almost all planted tanks after this amount of time will build up a lot of detritus fish waste decaying leafs sediment that will slowly build and cause algae to flourish. Even when all parameters you state remain optimum. I would definitely say after 18 month his bulb has degraded significantly but in my opinion is not the cause of the algae outbreak. Just replacing the bulb will not correct his algae problem. In fact it will probably cause it to accelerate if everything else remains constant. I think there is another cause. I mean if he started out new fresh tank with an 18 month old bulb. He would not get an immediate algae outbreak cause the bulb was old.


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## Newt

doubleott05 said:


> bulbs kelvin degrees ..do.. make a difference in plant growth. .....................................if it didnt make a difference why not use a 3500k or a 2000k or a 13000k or a 14000k or the simple $2 incandesant bulb sold at the local grocery store. the answer is simply because the color thoes bulbs admit adversly affects growth of the plants.... or encourages different types of growth.
> ..........................................................
> (example: i believe the blue spectrum creates long leggy stems with gimpy leaves.
> red creates short bushy plants lacking color..................


First, Kelvin is a temperture scale not a spectrum and is now more correctly called CCT (color correlated temperature). The kelvin color is a blend of all the light the bulb produces from 400nm to 700nm. A spectrum of light refers to the wavelength of light measured in nanometers (nm), visible light being 400nm to 700nm. You can have five bulbs that manufacturers have given the same CCT yet they could all be different especially in the spectral output which is what we need to be concerned with. It is true that lower kelvin bulbs have more red in their spectral output and conversley high kelvin bulbs contain more blue light. Cheaper bulbs have a large amount of predominantly green light and these will look the brightest to our human eyes. The plants 'see' the light as the spectral output.

Fluorescent bulbs can be made cheap or well made. Well made use good quality phosphours with exact belnds and coating of the tube. Most important is the cathode the energizes the Hg which activates the phosphous. A well made bulb will generate emissions with a high rating called microeinstiens. That is why T8 Philips Aquarelle can blow away the cheap T5HO bulbs and is why they now cost $30 to import.

Lastly: its the red light that promotes stem elongation and blue that cause short bushy growth and leaf development. Red light does not penetrate water nearly as well as blue.


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## Newt

doubleott05 said:


> ..............................................................................
> I have an old maybe 18 months old ADA 8000k hqi bulb.
> being this old can it cause an outbreak of algae not normally seen?
> I have been meaning to replace it but they are $$$ and i have tried everything to control the algae but i have come to the conclusion that it is my old bulb..........................





bartoli said:


> Well, this is what you wrote in the thread-opening post:
> I interpreted that to mean you were trying to use the old bulb without causing algae.


What I think he is saying is that the bulb costs a lot of money and he may not have had the funds to go and make the purchase inlieu of other more important things and was trying to find away to extend the inevitable. An imbalance of any kind will cause algae. Each tank is unique in its balance. As Roy (SeattleAquarist) says, I watch my plants and they tell me what needs to be tweaked. Staying on top of any changes is important.

As bulbs get old they cant put out the energy (spectral spikes) they used to; some can even shift the spectral output as the phosphourus/Hg gets depleted and the cathode tube weakens.


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## bartoli

Newt said:


> What I think he is saying is that the bulb costs a lot of money and he may not have had the funds to go and make the purchase inlieu of other more important things and was trying to find away to extend the inevitable.


That means he was trying to use the old bulb (until it was finally replaced) and at the same time getting rid of the algae. So, you and I have the same interpretation of what he wrote?


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## doubleott05

blue thumb said:


> I would definitely say after 18 month his bulb has degraded significantly but in my opinion is not the cause of the algae outbreak. *Just replacing the bulb will not correct his algae problem.* In fact it will probably cause it to accelerate if everything else remains constant. I think there is another cause. I mean if he started out new fresh tank with an 18 month old bulb. He would not get an immediate algae outbreak cause the bulb was old.


this theory has been proven. ... i just prooved it.

the algae did not accellerate. infact it halted and then started to die off and plant growth exploded.

so infact the change of old to new bulb redeemed the health of my tank and allowed it to flourish.

thanks everybody for all your thoughts and help.

big thanks to Newt for his Bulb expertise(sp?) 
and big thanks to seattle for helping out and to everyone

Elliot


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## blue thumb

Excellent! glad you got control of all your algae problem. Take a video would love to see your tank.


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## doubleott05

ok i will. 


right after i got the tank under control. i waited about two weeks after the stabalization then i tore it down and rescaped. 

but ill see about taking a video of the new scape


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