# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Sumatran/Borneo Biotope



## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Soon I'm going to recieve my KATI 5 ion exchange unit, which I will use when I convert my 30g breeder(36x18x12) into a biotope tank. I really want to keep a shoal of Chocolate Gouramis in this tank! So first..the filtiration, will an XP2 connected to a Lifegard FB 300 be enough. I will use Matrix as my bio-media. Secondly, my lighting...I know they like dim lighting so should I go with the Triple NO flourscent by AG or Double NO flourscent by AG. Both come with 9325k tubes. Would I need to inject C02? Thirdly, what color substrate would be ideal for this setup? I'm thinking of going with dark brown sand, would this any good? Fourthly, what plants come from this area...I mean I know what Crypts come from there, but what other plants would come from there? And lastly, how many Chocolate Gouramis should I keep? Advice would be appreciated...









[This message was edited by Raul-7 on Sun December 28 2003 at 10:55 AM.]


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Soon I'm going to recieve my KATI 5 ion exchange unit, which I will use when I convert my 30g breeder(36x18x12) into a biotope tank. I really want to keep a shoal of Chocolate Gouramis in this tank! So first..the filtiration, will an XP2 connected to a Lifegard FB 300 be enough. I will use Matrix as my bio-media. Secondly, my lighting...I know they like dim lighting so should I go with the Triple NO flourscent by AG or Double NO flourscent by AG. Both come with 9325k tubes. Would I need to inject C02? Thirdly, what color substrate would be ideal for this setup? I'm thinking of going with dark brown sand, would this any good? Fourthly, what plants come from this area...I mean I know what Crypts come from there, but what other plants would come from there? And lastly, how many Chocolate Gouramis should I keep? Advice would be appreciated...









[This message was edited by Raul-7 on Sun December 28 2003 at 10:55 AM.]


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## skylsdale (Jun 2, 2004)

My first suggestion would be to buy an RO/DI unit so you can have some nice soft, acidic water. Personally, I would shoot for a pH of 5-6. I've kept them around 6.5-7, but I wouldn't get any hopes up of them breeding at such a high pH.

As far as lighting, I never noticed bright lighting having much of an adverse affect on their behavior (and I've kept them in both bright and dim aquariums). The key issue comes down to the amount of cover you provide.

Brown sand will be perfect. I would cram the tank full of gnarled and twisted branches, driftwood, etc. Create a visually broken up environment, much like you would for Rift Lake cichlids. Create many different boundaries, and do it so it visually breaks up the chocolates field of view from one part of the tank to another. The more wood you can pack in there the better (I'm talking LOTS of it...more than you probably think you need). Interspersed among the wood I would plant crypts and Hygrophila difformis. It's native to SE Asia, grows like a weed, sucks up nutrients, and will provide tons of fantastic cover for the fish. I would encourage it to grow along the surface or emersed, even. You could try some Hygrophila corymbosa (giant hygro) as well...this would provide some more great cover if you have enough light. Java fern will work well...and I would HIGHLY recommend putting Java moss ALL OVER as well. Surface plants like duckweed would help.

As for number of chocolates...they are a vicious fish toward each other, so you need plenty to help curb too much aggression from being focused on one individual. Here is an excerpt from an article in the Dec 2003 issue of _Tropical Fish Hobbyist_: "I have seen how two dominant specimens decimated a colony of seven specimens in a 160 gallon tank!

"We have found 80 gal tanks with 12 to 14 specimens and 160 gal tanks with 25 to 30 speciemens to be optimal proportions in order to keep peace within the population, and where interspecies aggressiveness remains moderate. If significant decreases in population are experienced, aggressiveness increases alarmingly. Dominant specimens will tirelessly pursue the weakest ones, inflicting injuries of varying degree on their fins and sking that, in the state of stress to which they are constatntly subjected, do not heal. THis becomes a vicious cycle that decimates the population, and with it hte possibility of reproduction."

I have found this to be VERY true in keeping chocolates. For a long time I couldn't figure out why I kept having individuals die...but when I really started to observe their behavior, it was clear to see that one fish always took the brunt of the aggression, and within a few weeks would die from the constant barrage of bullying. This was with a group of 8 in a 30 gal (36x12x17) tank. Within about a month I was down to 5. I would suggest something around 10-13 fish in your 30 gal breeder. For something a little more visually interesting, try a small school of either Rasbora heteromorpha or dorsicellata, both of which I've kept successfully with chocolates.

And remember to cram the tank full of wood and plants. The swampier and fuller...the better for the fish.


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Thanks for the advice and tips dale! The KATI 5 is an ion exchange nit that gives you 0 kH and gH, as well as a pH around 5.5-6. As for filtiration, would an XP2 connected to a Lifegard FB 300 be enough? I've found two large pieces, one 23" and one 27"...the first one is like a stump and has branches and the other one is kindof slender. And I'm going to add 3 more small pieces of malaysian driftwood to anchor my plants. Will this be enough? As for plants, I'm going to use Java Ferns, Mosses, and Crypt. And I think a "forest" of Giant Hygro is a great idea for hiding! Can I try Khuli loaches? Arent R. heteromorpha notourius for eating eggs..? Thanks for your help


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## skylsdale (Jun 2, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> would an XP2 connected to a Lifegard FB 300 be enough?


TO be honest, I have no clue what you're talking about! I was pretty old school...I just used sponge filters for the tank when I kept chocolates.

I would maybe try to get some more wood. You're going to have to add a ton of this stuff--the more twists and turns and overhangs, etc. made by the wood the better. It's hard to say if you have enough unless you can post a pic. Again, don't plant everything along the back and leave the middle all open...you want the tank divided up to help break up the chocolates' field of view from one area to another. You could try Khulis...although if I remember correctly they tend to not like really high temps and too acidic of water. Heteromorpha will probably eat their own eggs IF you manage to breed them...but since chocolates are maternal mouthbrooders, I don't think you have much to worry about there. If you can actually make it to that point, you have a lot more to worry about than a few rasboras.


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Thanks, so I know they're very fincky about water parameters. What are your's like? And I know they don't like nitrates either...what should my maximum nitrate levels be?


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## Tenor1 (Mar 3, 2003)

Hi Raul,

I never had chocolates but have always admired them. Where are you getting the fish? They aren't available in our local shops.

Regards,
Carlos

==============================
I try to keep the tank plain and simple but it never stays that way!


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## skylsdale (Jun 2, 2004)

Never tested for nitrates. The only parameter I tested was pH...and like I said, it never got below 6.5 and was usually closer to 7. As I said before, I think this fish is not quite as fragile as people believe it to be in the sense that it can handle a little more nuetral pH as long as the water stays clean and STABLE. But if you're trying to drive it down all the time and levels are swinging around, that's when they get stressed and sickness can set in. The only time I've had sick chocolates is within the first week or two after I get them. Keep in mind that 99.9% (if not all) in the mainstream hobby are wild caught, so their chances of having parasites and disease are pretty high. I just let things run their natural course and within a week they were all healthy (the higher water temps sped the ich life cycle and it came and went within a few days).


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Carlos, I'm hopefully going to get them off a site(cichlidexchange.com)..they sell them for pretty cheap, $4.5 a fish!

Dale, do you does with C02? My pH is at 6.5, what should my kH and gH be? And I think my temp. should be at 82F? And as for the wood, I'm going to put diagnolly(looks like an X from above), would that be an ideal break-up?


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## skylsdale (Jun 2, 2004)

The Cichlid Exchange is actually the distributor for the LFS I used to get my chocolates from. Good healthy stock. When I did dose CO2, I just did a DIY setup via 2 liter pop bottle. This lasted for just a short while before I made the tank a species tank with the chocolates. I tried using peat to drive the pH down, but that never did much. I ended up packing a 20 gal long with all the wood I could manage and adding blackwater extract to the tank. I'm not sure what your KH or GH should be...but they like VERY soft water, and I personally feel that tannins are actually appreciated by them as well.

As for your wood design, it sounds good. Keep in mind that decent vertical break ups toward the surface of the water are good (a few of my pieces extended out of the water and nearly blocked off entire sections of the tank).


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Thanks for your help dale, I'll be informing you of my progress in the future. I think I was told that my gH should be at around 3 and kH at 1..


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Happy New Year...


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## skylsdale (Jun 2, 2004)

Those numbers sound about right. I knew that without some sort of RO/DI unit I was never going to get them down, so I just stopped testing for them and did everything else I could (e.g. peat, collecting rain water, etc.).

As for temperature, I kept mine between 80-82*F. I've heard of some people keeping them around 84*, and they will do fine, but it's a bit excessive IMO when they are just fine around 80*F. This helps with plants as well.


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