# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Ammonia Levels High in tank



## Heyguy74 (Jan 23, 2004)

My friends has a 20 gallon tank. He's had high amminia levels for a bout a week now. Hes been doing water changers about 25% every day or two days. The level stays high even after the water change. There is no significant change between the ammonia reading from before water chasnges and after. Any help wll be appreciated.


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## Heyguy74 (Jan 23, 2004)

My friends has a 20 gallon tank. He's had high amminia levels for a bout a week now. Hes been doing water changers about 25% every day or two days. The level stays high even after the water change. There is no significant change between the ammonia reading from before water chasnges and after. Any help wll be appreciated.


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Is there ammonia or chloramine in his water supply? Adding ammonia to public supplies is becoming an increasingly common part of disinfection programs.

How old is the tank?

Roger Miller

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_"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein_


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## Heyguy74 (Jan 23, 2004)

He's had the tank setup for over a year. He has just recently put live plants in his tank. (last month) He tested the water from his faucet and there was no ammonia in the water. He does live in New York City so im not sure about the cloramine in the water supply.


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Is anyone else here on the NYC water system? Do you have chloramines in your water?

If NYC treates the water with chloramines and your friend uses some normal "dechlorinators" then he might be making ammonia. What can happen is that the dechlorinator splits the chloramine apart, producing ammonia and chloride. The chloramine may not show up in an ammonia test on tap water, but ammonia will show up after the tap water is treated.

Roger Miller

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_"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein_


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Also, many products that breakdown the chloramines bind up the ammonia into a non-toxic form. But it will still show up on an ammonia test kit. Has he used any chemical means to reduce the ammonia? Are you sure that the ammonia test kit is still good and not giving you false positive results?










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## Sleepy_lancs (Mar 9, 2005)

Combat Ammonia with plants. Get floating plants such as duckweeds, frogbits and hornworts (this is especially good). They will help you. Just remember not to allow them grow till they cut lights from the plants below them.


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## Heyguy74 (Jan 23, 2004)

Thanks for the advice. It seems that the Ammonia Problem is coming under control with the water changes. He also added a bunch of plants. I had some duckweed, so i gave him some and its growing well. Although his fish (2 green Sevrums) think its a salad. He started using Seachems's Prime to condition the water. It helped w/ the Ammonia levels. Is this Ok to use? Will it mess up his trace elemnts ( Bind with them)? I've heard some Clorimr removers are not good.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

IMHO Seachem Prime is one of the best water conditioners out there. And it doesn't bind with the trace minerals or the iron.










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## Sleepy_lancs (Mar 9, 2005)

Errr... Prime is very good a conditioner but do take note that if you continue to use prime, it converts NO3 to something else. Now N is a macro nitrient without N, plants will not do well. Please take note.


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## Neal (Mar 1, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Sleepy_lancs:
> Errr... Prime is very good a conditioner but do take note that if you continue to use prime, it converts NO3 to something else. Now N is a macro nitrient without N, plants will not do well. Please take note.


I don't believe this is completely true. It is true that Prime "detoxifies Nitrate" (wording paraphrased from Prime bottle, from memory), but I believe the Nitrate is still available to plants.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Defiantly not true. I asked that same question to Dr. Greg at Seachem and he told me that used at normal levels to treat water Prime has no effect on Nitrates.










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## Heyguy74 (Jan 23, 2004)

I read on the bottle of Prime that it detoxifies. Nitritea and Nitrate. My questions is: If my friend uses it to treat his tap water for a water change, will it mess up his nitrate when he adds KNO3 to the water. Also when they say "detoxifies" Nitrates what do they mean?


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Did you read the reply right above your last message? It doesn't affect nitrates when used in normal doses. I'm not sure what they mean by detoxifying nitrates. You might want to email Seachem and ask. They are very quick with answers.










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## Neal (Mar 1, 2003)

Yeah that whole "detoxifies Nitrate" claim on the bottle of Prime is pretty unusual for Seachem, their claims are usually very grounded in science. For one thing nitrate isn't toxic in freshwater unless its in very high levels. And then Dr. Morin has said that it doesn't effect nitrate in a way that would make it unusable by plants. I can only see 2 things, 1. the detoxifies Nitrate is more relevant for salt water or 2. Prime binds the Nitrate in some way that makes it less harmful to fish but still available to the plants.

Heck I should just email Dr. Morin and see what he says. I'll do that and get back to the forum with his answer if he doesn't mind.

Neal


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## Heyguy74 (Jan 23, 2004)

Thanks for the help. I just wanted to understand what they meant by "Detoxifies Nitrate.

Thanks again


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## Neal (Mar 1, 2003)

I'm emailing back and forth with Seachem right now. I've asked for permission to post their responses here and if I receive it, you'll see them.

Neal


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## Neal (Mar 1, 2003)

Here is my question to Seachem: 
How does Prime detoxify nitrate? Once it has detoxified the nitrate, is the nitrate still available to plants? Also, does Prime effect the results of the Ammonia alerts?

And here is there response, crafted for this board:
Ammonia Alerts will always read true when an ammonia binding product is used (like Prime). Prime, and all other ammonia binding products, will skew the results of conventional total ammonia test kits. The detoxification of nitrite and nitrate by Prime (when used at elevated levels) is not well understood from a mechanistic standpoint. The most likely explanation is that the nitrite and nitrate is removed in a manner similar to the way ammonia is removed; i.e. it is bound and held in a inert state until such time that bacteria in the biological filter are able to take a hold of it, break it apart and use the nitrite and nitrate. Both ammonia and nitrate is still available for plants to use also. Two other possible scenarios are reduction to nitrogen (N2) gas or conversion into a benign organic nitrogen compound.

Best Regards,
Seachem Technical Support,rb~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seachem Laboratories, Inc. www.seachem.com 888-SEACHEM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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## Neal (Mar 1, 2003)

So, the way I read their response is this: Prime, when dosed per the normal instructions on the bottle will have little or no effect on the nitrite or nitrate. Any ammonia will be bound and harmless to fish, but still available to the bio-filter and/or plants. 
At higher levels of dosing, nitrite and nitrate are made less harmful to your fish, but are most likely still available to your plants.
It seems if you use Prime at the normal dose, it won't effect your nitrate dosing and even if you dose at the higher level, it most likely won't effect your nitrate dosing either.

Neal


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## Heyguy74 (Jan 23, 2004)

Thanks so much for your all your help. I got it now.


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