# So close! Need some really good advise, please!



## Trio123 (Nov 13, 2009)

I have been working on this tank for two and a half years now. It is a high tech wannabe tank with a fly by the seat of her pants user. 65 gallon tall model tank.

Description of Tank:
It has crummy substrate (your usually gravel with a little sand) but it is aged at this point and I have Amano nutrient sticks I add monthly. I've got a CO2 injection system and a drop checker that I have moved around the tank (left for hours) and stays green (the optimal color). I have also checked the CO2 using the calculators which also say it is in the optimal range. My lighting is two Life Glow T5 HO 54W lights providing what most sites call medium light which should be plenty for what I'm trying to grow (amazon swords, rotalia, hygrofilia, crypts, anubius, and java fern). I add nutrients based off of the EI dosing but I have altered it to better fit my tank. I have a powerhead on the left side of the tank but might need a bit more flow. I do 40-50% water changes every weekend. I get reasonable plant growth but......

Inhabitants:
Knifefish, two rams, five congo tetras, one otto, nirite snails, and a whip tail catfish. I feed them frozen food mostly because the Knifefish gets aggressive when he doesnt get his brine shrimp, mysis, or bloodworms.

Problem:
ALGAE! I use this website for my major algae guide because the pictures are so good: http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm 
The types I am getting are: BBA and/or Oedogonium, Hair, Green Spot, Cladophora, and a little spot of blue green... I could tank could provide a nice model of algae types for discussion of what not to do... :help: 
I have been testing the nitrate and the phosphate everyday and what I've found is the nitrate starts out at 10 at the beginning of the week (after water change) and gets to 20 by the end (I add NO nitrate additions because of this). The phosphate stays extremely low 0.1 ppm but if I add a significant about I get algae growth like crazy! I was getting yellow spotting so I learned from some articles to add potassium and trace elements (CSM+B) so I dont know what other nutrient could be holding back nitrate uptake.

Please help, or send me to a really good book (not about tank aquascaping or the basics) that gets into the details of maintaining a good tank.

And PS I am going to change the substrate when I move.

PSS sorry for the length :-#


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## pfertz (Jun 26, 2007)

One more bit of info; What sort of filter are you using on this tank, and with what frequency do you maintain it?


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## Trio123 (Nov 13, 2009)

Two AquaClear HOB filters rated at 70 gallon. One on each side of the tank. Switch off cleaning them, one of them every three weeks.


Oh and I looked closer at what I called blue-green algae, it is not that, may Cladophora growing up the corner of the glass... who knows I got a regular algae research center.

and thanks for responding so quick


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Can you post a px of tank? I'd like to see how heavily planted you are. You certainly don't have much water movement with your two filters. With T5HO that would be approx double light of what the wpg rules are. That's pretty high light. How long are your lights on?


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## Trio123 (Nov 13, 2009)

Here are a few websites I have found recommending 3 watts per gallon to grow high light plants and 2for medium light. Please tell me what you think is appropriate obviously T5 HO must be different or you have other sources of information.
http://www.plantedtank.net/articles/Basics-to-starting-a-Planted-Tank/4/
http://www.rexgrigg.com/mlt.html
My wattage is 1.66 wpg and the tank hieght is 2 feet. I can't take out a bulb because it is a closed circuit, you take out one the other bulb doesnt work. The lights run for 7 hours a day.

Yes two filters and the powerhead I mentioned, are you saying I should add another (powerhead)? I was thinking about increasing the flow on the other side of the tank.

Here is a terrible picture because I dont clean the tank until tomorrow so the glass is really bad.


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## aquatic_clay (Aug 17, 2009)

IMO I would just go ahead remove all of the algae by hand and then nuke the tank with excel... but I usually take the easy way out...

Take a look at the Barr report there's always some really good info there about algae control.

Most of the time algae is present due to an imbalance in the nutrients. How much are you dosing of each fert?

Clay


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## Trio123 (Nov 13, 2009)

I use dry fertilizers and what I dose fluctuates based on what my testing is telling me. I used to dose 1/4 tsp nitrate, 1 and1/4 tsp potassium, and 1/8 tsp phosphate every other day and 1/4 tsp of CSM+B on the other days. Now I am dosing no nitrate, 1/2 tsp potassium, and 1/8 phosphate every other day and 1/4 tsp of CSM+B on the other days. 
The nitrate was getting too high, and the phosphate additions were causing almost instantaneous algae explosions but also visible growth from the Amazon Swords 
I think I was way over kill on Potassium but I got that from Chuck's Plant Calculator. I started getting a film on the surface of the water. 

As for over dosing flourish excel... I dose it and it definately makes a visible difference but I am afraid to over dose it... love my fishys too much [smilie=w:


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

It you are using the tables to measure how much CO2 is in your water then that's the weak link. Those tables assume that the only dissolved solids are calcium and Mg. Obviously that's not the case. You need to use a drop checker with 4dkg water in it. That will tell you for sure since you know what the ph from what source is in that drop checker. 

Yes you were way overkill on K. Glad you cut back. As long as you don't overdose more than 4 times the amount I think your fish will be ok. I only dose the initial dose each day squirted directly on the algae until it's gone. It works well with some algaes. On many hair algae it won't phase them.

Yes, T5 bulbs are different. They are way more intense and efficient. That is why I say you have high light. You can count for about double. The wpg calculations were bases on T12's (I think). That's many moons ago.

I suspect you have an extreme carbon deficiency. Increase CO2. Manually remove algae. Spot dose excel. Cut down photo period. Try these. It should greatly improve.


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## Trio123 (Nov 13, 2009)

I know the post was long so understand why you missed it but I said I use a drop checker and I am light green even in the lower corners of the tank. I just stated that I also checked it using the calculators. I am positive it is not a carbon deficency. 

I would definately cut back the lights if someone could tell me how on a closed circuit (other than just buying a whole new fixture). Just to reiterate, I take one bulb out the other will not work. It will also not work if one bulb is dead (tried that). Any suggestions?

Should I reduce the photo period to less than 7 hours? 

I will try spot dosing excel on the BBA and manualing removing the hair algae and cladophora.


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## aquatic_clay (Aug 17, 2009)

I think having better growth from your sword is a good sign that sounds like your plants are starting to out compete the algae for nutrients. I would keep up with EI dosing like you're doing and see what happens.

As for the lights I've got the same that you have over your tank plus an extra 24w T5 and I leave my lights on for about 10 hours a day and have no algae problems. So I don't think that lighting is where the problem is.

No need to worry about over dosing excel killing you fish you can over dose about 3-4x what's recommended and be fine. And no need to worry about te excel building up to toxis level because the chemical compound breaks down with in 24 hours after it's added to the tank.


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## Trio123 (Nov 13, 2009)

Thanks, good to know (about the excel). 
Just a little update, I've been adding more phosphate even though I was afraid it would cause another algae spike but it really hasn't this time. I think it must have cause a spike before because the potassium was bottomed out (I was getting yellow spotting on the hydro). I dont know if you can tell the difference in this picture but the Amazon Swords have grown nearly 4 inches in the last week since I have been adding phosphate every other day _and_ the nitrate is coming down (it was at 20 on Monday after I added some on Sunday, today it is at 10). I think Phosphate must be the limiting nutrient now (which from what I read is good). The only algae that seems to be thriving still is the BBA so, because I am home for the next three days, I'm going to push the CO2 at little higher and try to manually pull out what is in there. Maybe overdose some flourish excel and watch my fish very closely.


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## Trio123 (Nov 13, 2009)

opps I forgot the picture


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## aquatic_clay (Aug 17, 2009)

It sounds like you have the problem pretty much solved at this point! Just keep up with manual removal of the BBA and you should be algae free very soon!

Clay


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## MoonFish (Feb 12, 2006)

Blast the CO2 until the plants are sticking out the top of the tank. It should look like a glass of 7up you just poured because the plants are pearling so much. 

I think the theory behind EI was that it required NO testing. Just change the water. Your plants are still small and the bioload is changing every few days. :frusty: I think it's pointless to be testing things although I have been there and you want everything to work today. It takes some time. When the plants really thrive, they just nuke the algea.


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