# A little Scape...



## alexcarbonari (Nov 11, 2005)

Hi, here's my tiny tank!



TANK: Askoll Amico Cristal, 41x23x25 cm - about 22 lt
HEATER: Askoll 35W
FILTER: hanged Askoll Aquaclear - 378 lt/h 
LIGHT: Jialu PL 36W - 9 hours
CO2: Askoll system

SUBSTRATE: Wave Master Soil & Seachem tabs
FERTILIZATION: Complete Seachem protocol

FLORA: Hemianthus callitrichoides, Rotala wallichii, Pogostemon helferi

FAUNA: 1 Otocinclus affinis, 7 Trigonostigma heteromorpha

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Since few days after start up an heavy bacterian fog has arrived. Actualy I'm trying to make it disappear


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Very very nice! Great job! How long has it been up and running?


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## alexcarbonari (Nov 11, 2005)

Thanks! It has been working since 3 weeks


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

I'd ditch the Wallichi-- it's not adding anything


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## alexcarbonari (Nov 11, 2005)

but this tank was born for wallichii...


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## Squawkbert (Jan 3, 2007)

Steven_Chong said:


> I'd ditch the Wallichi-- it's not adding anything


Maybe a little extreme...
How about putting half of it behind the rocks on the right half.

(sell the rest or send to me )


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## alexcarbonari (Nov 11, 2005)

Squawkbert said:


> How about putting half of it behind the rocks on the right half.


It's a good (but old) solution... I mean, in another tank of mine I already used this kind of solution. In particular, it wasn't wallichii but polysperma 'Rosanervig'. This way of scape it's because I want to change  
I'm just waiting that the Pogostemon grow up to cover wallichii basement


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## alexcarbonari (Nov 11, 2005)

Squawkbert said:


> (sell the rest or send to me )


I'd love to, but it wouldn't be so easy... where do you live? I'm in Italy


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## Genin (Jan 28, 2007)

I think it looks great and will be even better when the HC really carpets the whole substrate.


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

alexcarbonari said:


> but this tank was born for wallichii...


why?

What's it's importance, and what does it do for the scape? It's time to explain your artwork, and your motivation.


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## nap83 (Feb 7, 2006)

i think it looks good, more power to people that do what they want to their scapes! not following rules & implied criticisms from others! nice tank dude!


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## ReefJones (Feb 23, 2006)

Steven_Chong said:


> why?
> 
> What's it's importance, and what does it do for the scape? It's time to explain your artwork, and your motivation.


Seriously 

Alexcarbonari- If _*you*_ like it, keep it.
Reef


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## nap83 (Feb 7, 2006)

ReefJones said:


> Seriously
> 
> Alexcarbonari- If _*you*_ like it, keep it.
> Reef


lol! just have fun with it! if you like it then great, the scape is for you dude!


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

> *Quote from "Aquascaping Forum"*
> By definition, if beauty is in the eye of the beholder, then critiques of aquascapes or any other form of art is pointless.
> 
> I would like to remind everyone that the point of the aquascaping forum is to destroy, trample. and otherwise mutilate the idea that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. This concept will be allowed to exist outside of the forum, but within the forum, it will not be tolerated. If you cannot stand to have your aquarium be critiqued by others, do not post it in this forum.
> --Former Mod Tsunami


I'm not proposing to be as forceful as Tsunami suggests here but . . .

By saying "Why?" I'm not forcing him to do what I want, nor am I saying he's wrong or that he can't do what he wants with his own scape.

I am however, asking to hear his reasoning and own motives-- in doing so, maybe I can understand why "the scape is made for wallichi," something that I do not see. This is self-education, also an effort to help others because if I know what his motivation is, than maybe I can help him better.

Quite frankly, it's more helpful than someone who vaguely skips over the subject saying "do what you want"

That's what this sub-forum is about-- helping each of us grow as artists.


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## nap83 (Feb 7, 2006)

dude, scaping is just fun; something that we like to do, that's why we all fell into the hobby and fell into the art of aquascaping. i understand that you're more motivated in creating an inspired aquascape than everyone else but sometimes your comments imply pressure on the aquarist trying to show off his work as just a means of becoming a part of this forum community. i understand the point of making people "improve" their skills but i don't necessarily agree with comments like "you need to work on this rock work, think about it more!" or "these comments are out of place here" or "what's the importance, what's the motivation?". sometimes people's motivations are just to make a tank, and that's it, yes of course they were inspired by something but they don't actually dwell on it, you might have some poetic inspirations that you focus on but ime i just go with what feels right and i'm sure a lot of people here contributing to these forums feel the same thing. not everyone will say "i chose these plants because of whatever coast, or i chose these fish because of whatever mountain", i bet a lot of people in here just want to say "i did it cause i liked it and felt compelled to do it, i have inspiration for it but i'm not gonna delve in it too much". DO YOU, whatever you like and whatever floats your boat is great, my favorite scaper is norbert sabat and he makes amazing aquascapes, never once do i recall him bragging about his inspiration or what stream or mountain provoked him to do such a beautiful tank, he just did it with no remorse. he liked it... so everyone else did.


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## nap83 (Feb 7, 2006)

i feel like a lot of work around here revolves around people pressuring (in a sort of way) other aquascapers to do work the same as their own. the rules & boundaries are all in the same niche now which unfortunately makes every other tank posted in this forum the same as the next. i agree by not saying "do what you want" in a sense but at the same time the scaper has to have fun with it as well, not looking back at these forums trembling or insecurely posting because some dude is out there to criticize the crap out of what he has done, that's no fun at all. we as forum members should motivate by giving positive feedback before SUGGESTING anything to our tastes (keyword suggesting).


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## alexcarbonari (Nov 11, 2005)

> why?


Because i like it 



> What's it's importance, and what does it do for the scape?


It takes color to a scape that, in my opinion, would be too green without it



> It's time to explain your artwork, and your motivation.


I didn't follow a particular guideline creating this 'scape'. I didn't take ispiration by a picture or some landscape. Simply I tried to create that tank around wallichii, making this plant protagonist and prominent using few green kind of plants. If the composition seems canted or non-homogenous, I'm sorry, but it is only 3 weeks old. With patience we will see the results in next days, when the tank will be more 'mature'.
Anyway, thank for your annotations 

*nap83 & ReefJones*, thanks!


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

> Because i like it
> 
> Quote:
> What's it's importance, and what does it do for the scape?
> ...


You're welcome

Nap:

-Norbert would hae more to say if he was more confident in his English. Though he is of the mind of "simply go with your feeling." However, there are no supreme aquascapers-- Amano or Norbert-- and everyone can improve. I can see places in scapes from both of them that can be improved. I've received help from other members here pointing out places I could improve.

-From my experience in art, one improves by never stopping, and not just walking will-less-ly through the process, but paying attention to his decisions, making them conciously, and learning from them. I myself haven't asked, but I'm sure Norbert does this too.

-This sub-forum is meant for critique and feedback from the perspective of art. If that's not what you want to do or hear, there are other sub-forums.

-I haven't forced anyone to conform to anything-- except maybe conforming to the mentality of being a more aware and driven artist.

-Make whatever decisions you want-- choosing whatever you want is part of being an artist, even if others don't like your decisions. However to keep improving, you should give your work more thought than "just because I wanted too."



> rules & boundaries are all in the same niche now which unfortunately makes every other tank posted in this forum the same as the next.


So break the rules! I've said it time and again: There are no rules in aquascaping that can't be broken. I like breaking them myself-- just that when I do, I pay attention to why I do it, and what changes about the scape, and it helps me improve when I see the results.



> we as forum members should motivate by giving positive feedback before SUGGESTING anything to our tastes


It should be _implied_ that all the comments here are suggestions, and everyone's free to make their own decisions. Taking that as a given, what I say is just feedback to the artist: I don't see where wallichi adds to this layout. IMO, it detracts. Perfectly fine.



> never once do i recall him bragging about his inspiration or what stream or mountain provoked him to do such a beautiful tank, he just did it with no remorse. he liked it... so everyone else did.


I don't think it's bragging to share my thought process with others. As for the later statement, that's rather vague and unfounded. People like his work for a number of reasons.



> i bet a lot of people in here just want to say "i did it cause i liked it and felt compelled to do it, i have inspiration for it but i'm not gonna delve in it too much".


Just because "a lot of people" do something, doesn't mean it's the path to becoming a better artist.

In fact, seeing as skilled artists like Norbert are the minority, I'd say "going with the group" is the _opposite_ of what a skilled artist does. In other words, just like in anything else:

_If you want to be better you have to do more._

In aquascaping, in art, in anything else-- the ones who are excellent, are not the ones who "do what everyone else does." If they were, they wouldn't be excellent, neh?

And whether members in this forum ever become excellent aquascapers or not, this sub-forum is dedicated to try and help them get there.


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## freydo (Jan 7, 2006)

if you're posting your aquascape to this forum, you have to expect people to judge, critique, praise, condemn your design. just saying "because i like it" does not help people understand the philosophy behind it. and if people understand, then they may see what you see and learn from it.

as steven has stated, the rules of design that so many people follow or spout, are meant to be broken, revised, bent.

you say your design is "but this tank was born for wallichii..." in what way is it so? i just see some wallichii planted in the back corner. this forum is teaching and learning for both sides... the critic and the designer.

if you were just looking at posting pictures of your aquascape without being criticized for it, that's what the General Aquarium Plants Discussions forum is for. it's great that you're taking the first steps at aquascaping, and as you've stated, the design is young still. but since you've posted it here, regardless of the age of the design, you will get comments... good and bad.

it's good that you're sticking to your guns regarding your design, but you have to look at it from the viewpoint of others. most people want more than "just because".


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## ReefJones (Feb 23, 2006)

freydo said:


> if you're posting your aquascape to this forum, you have to expect people to judge, critique, praise, condemn your design. just saying "because i like it" does not help people understand the philosophy behind it. and if people understand, then they may see what you see and learn from it.
> 
> as steven has stated, the rules of design that so many people follow or spout, are meant to be broken, revised, bent.
> 
> ...


Well said!

I must say that I am 100% for the critique. But can it be done in a manner that is less, well... rude? Steven, I don't know you man, you seem like a very poetic cat and that is cool and you do some great work. But some of the stuff I have read that you have typed just comes off wrong. I am sure it has good intention, but from a third parties view, it comes off harsh is all I am saying. Art is art, and I am a firm believer myself that aquascaping is an art, but everyone might not think that ( Reference the pals or paintstrokes thread) with that said, yes posting in this forum will get you critiqued, but that doesn't necessarily mean dude has to ante up why he is doing what he is doing. Feedback is feedback, and the person recieving the feedback has the choice to do with that feedback as he chooses. But, dealing with constant exchange of feedback daily with my job, I can honestly say saying "Field meets wall syndrome, get a foreground dude!" Is not good feedback. anyhow, I hope you dont take this the wrong way, I think you do good work and contribute to this board greatly, I just wanted to put in my 2 cents.

Reef


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

ReefJones said:


> Well said!
> 
> I must say that I am 100% for the critique. But can it be done in a manner that is less, well... rude? Steven, I don't know you man, you seem like a very poetic cat and that is cool and you do some great work. But some of the stuff I have read that you have typed just comes off wrong. I am sure it has good intention, but from a third parties view, it comes off harsh is all I am saying. Art is art, and I am a firm believer myself that aquascaping is an art, but everyone might not think that ( Reference the pals or paintstrokes thread) with that said, yes posting in this forum will get you critiqued, but that doesn't necessarily mean dude has to ante up why he is doing what he is doing. Feedback is feedback, and the person recieving the feedback has the choice to do with that feedback as he chooses. But, dealing with constant exchange of feedback daily with my job, I can honestly say saying "Field meets wall syndrome, get a foreground dude!" Is not good feedback. anyhow, I hope you dont take this the wrong way, I think you do good work and contribute to this board greatly, I just wanted to put in my 2 cents.
> 
> Reef


Respected. I know I have a little (little-- hah!) language issue there. I'm working on it-- slowly. 

BTW-- field & wall syndrom more likely means reducing the foreground, not expanding it. 

And all of this is officially thread hijack. :heh:


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## ReefJones (Feb 23, 2006)

sorry, misquoted you there, I meant "midground"  and yes, Sorry to hijack your thread Alex!:doh: :doh: 
Reef


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

In which case, I hate to say it but, "Get a midground!" _would_ be good advice for a fair number of aquascapes.

for this one, I'd say there's more of an issue of midground not integrating with background. There is a fairly well balanced midground, but I don't see it balancing/working well with the wallichis.


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## slickwillislim (Oct 11, 2005)

I think steven is right. I think its a good idea to ask why. If you don't ask why you limit yourself and your understanding. Everyone ca look at a tank and think it looks perfect, but you won't learn anything unless you ask why it looks perfect.

If your just trying to grow plants I think your doing a great job. If you want a tank that looks nice your still doing a great job. If you want a tank that flows and is connected and doesn't need to be explained just admired than maybe asking yourself why might just help. 

I don't mean to sound rude, (I am sick so who knows if I will remember writing this). I just think your taking Steven's responses in the wrong way. He isn't trying to impose himself and his views on your aquascape he is trying to get you to understand your own goals and help you achieve them. 

In the end he can't force you to do anything and if what he is saying isn't what you want to here his advice is easily ignored. 

I appreciate what steven does. He takes his time to read our posts and offer advice. I can't think of many places on the internet that you can find this feedback. I think its a great element of APC and he can be a little brash but its in no way meant to be malicious, hateful or oppressive, only helpful.

BTW: I like your nano. I think it looks good. What equipment is in there normally?C02 diffusor? Do have any whole tank shots. I like to see where people keep there nano's. I just set up a simillarly sized tank and am trying to see how everyone else keeps all of their equipment out of sight. Thanks


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## alexcarbonari (Nov 11, 2005)

wow, please slow down and wait a second... 

Don't misunderstand my reply on Steven's participation on my thread.
I really appreciated and, sincerely, I counted on it.

I didn't mean to impose my scape like a 'state of the art creation', not even make you to believe that it was made respecting Aura Section. Your comments are all welcome, otherwise I wouldn't have post the picture and description of the tank.



> just saying "because i like it" does not help people understand the philosophy behind it.





> it's good that you're sticking to your guns regarding your design, but you have to look at it from the viewpoint of others. most people want more than "just because".


Well, you're right, but I cannot explain math proportions that I haven't used  
I still have not competences to teach anybody aquascape's foundations, I only try to create a well-balanced-good-looking tank. I like how wallichii spread from the left bottom to the top, making his reds lea explosing over callitrichoides, contained only by pogostemon. I didn't put it beside the rock on the right because I already had created a similar tank and I wanted to change. That's it 



> f you were just looking at posting pictures of your aquascape without being criticized for it, that's what the General Aquarium Plants Discussions forum is for


I've never pretended that. Posting pictures I accept both compliments and annotations. I thank all of you for your attention.



> sorry, misquoted you there, I meant "midground" and yes, Sorry to hijack your thread Alex!


Don't worry, the only problem is about the language, I have to read your posts with attention to understand correctly  



> I don't mean to sound rude, (I am sick so who knows if I will remember writing this). I just think your taking Steven's responses in the wrong way.


Instead I'm happy to receive his and your help to improve. If I expected only praises rayer: I wouldn't had posted 



> I like your nano. I think it looks good. What equipment is in there normally?C02 diffusor? Do have any whole tank shots. I like to see where people keep there nano's. I just set up a simillarly sized tank and am trying to see how everyone else keeps all of their equipment out of sight. Thanks


Thanks. My co2 diffusor is an airstone  
I have other tank shots, but actualy I'm in trouble with an heavy bacterian fog that I cannot manage to dissolve  
In the beginning I used a leaven co2 Askoll system and maybe some part of the mixture went into the acquarium... bad luck!
My equipment is not out of sight... I put all out the tank before the shot :-D 
Have a look


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## ReefJones (Feb 23, 2006)

slickwillislim said:


> I think steven is right. I think its a good idea to ask why. If you don't ask why you limit yourself and your understanding. Everyone ca look at a tank and think it looks perfect, but you won't learn anything unless you ask why it looks perfect.
> 
> If your just trying to grow plants I think your doing a great job. If you want a tank that looks nice your still doing a great job. If you want a tank that flows and is connected and doesn't need to be explained just admired than maybe asking yourself why might just help.
> 
> ...


Right, I agree. We need good feedback like Steven sometimes gives. He is a great contribution to the forum (I personally love the interesting, thought provoking topics he comes up with)! My point was feedback should be given tactfully or most times it _*WILL *_fall on deaf ears...
Reef


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