# Starting my first planted tank (20 gal) got a couple questions.



## kruege311 (May 30, 2008)

Hello everyone. I've been browsing this site for a while and liked what I saw with the low tech planted aquariums and figured I'd finally take the plunge. I went out and bought a 20 gallon long tank, light hood, soil, and gravel. I've got the soil in and will need to get plants soon. From what I've been reading it's recommended to really cover as much of the aquarium as you can with plants if you're thinking of using the plants for natural filtration (which I am). What I was wondering though, is how do you know how many plants to get? When I look at my local fish stores I see that they sell some plants in little potted bunches. Am I supposed to assume this whole potted bunch is supposed to all get planted together and count that as one plant, or are you supposed to break off some of those pieces and plant them as separate plants? Basically I don't want to end up spending a fortune on plants when all I really needed to do was buy a handful but then when planting, break them apart from their main bunches and spread them out in the tank from which they'd end up growing more on their own (I assume). Maybe that's a hard question to really answer but I'd more than welcome any tries at it.

My other question would be on whether the 17 watt fluorescent bulb from the light hood I bought would be sufficient for low tech plant growth. It's by a manufacturer called all glass aquarium and is called a 30" deluxe full hood.

Thanks in advance for any advice you may be able to give.


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## helenf (Mar 24, 2008)

Each bunch of stem plants should be untied and then each stem planted separately, so it can root itself in with some space to grow. 

It is a good idea to buy the cheapest plants, since these are the fastest growers. But make sure they are healthy - bright green leaves, few dead leaves, if any, no wilting or obvious damage. 

Once your plants are growing well, you will indeed be able to trim them and replant the trimmings into the tank. Most stem plants take kindly to being trimmed. The bottom will branch out again from the trimmed point. and you can plant the top into the soil, where it will grow its own roots. 

The question is probably how long do you want to wait before putting fish in the tank. The more plants you have, the faster your tank will be safe for fish, as the plants will be cleaning the water all the faster. I would suggest starting with 4-5 bunches of different stem plants, plant them out and see which ones grow well. If your ammonia and nitrite are low after a week or two, the fish should be fine. If you are having trouble with ammonia or nitrite, you need more plants to consume those. 

Don't forget to buy some floating plants too, the ones that float on the surface, not totally submerged. These can use CO2 directly from the air, which gives them a big advantage over the submerged plants, as there is less CO2 in water by far. So the floaters grow faster and are often the best at removing waste from the water in your tank. 

Your light seems a bit low to me. The suggestion is 1-3 watts per gallon, so you'd need 20-60 watts, plus some natural light. If your tank will get a lot of daylight you might be fine, if not, you might need more lights. The T8 and T5 light bulbs are more effective than the standard fluorescent ones.

Enjoy planning your tank


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## Dustymac (Apr 26, 2008)

Helen hit all the basic points right on but I would like to add one observation:

I bought most of my plants off Ebay for a fraction of what the local fish stores wanted. There are also people at this forum selling plants. Every species I received in the mail arrived in great shape and ready for growing. The more plants you start off with, the better natural filtration you get and the more fish you can have in the tank.

Enjoy!
Jim


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## Kubalik (May 24, 2008)

You got plenty of good advice here i just wanted to tell you about a cheap way to upgrade the lighting. As you aready know you dont have enough light . What i did with my hood is i removed the existing setup (bulb and ballast ) bought couple of regular bulb sockets and mounted it in and screwd those compact energy saving bulbs in. You could use 2x27 watts which should give you enough light.
This isn't hard but one with some technical/electrical expiriance should be doing it . i can post pictures of how this should look if you are interested so plz let me know.


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## tames (Apr 18, 2008)

I am not sure where you are from, but usually the standard fluorescents in the 30 inch hood are 20 watts not 17. Make sure you look at the bulb to determine the wattage. Maybe the hoods are different than the strip lights (light unit without the full hood). When using standard fluorescent, I like the strip lights better than the hood. I either use a double strip light or have two over the tank. This should give you 40 watts standard.

In some of the all-glass hoods, the strip light can be removed from the hood portion, then you would only need to buy an additional strip light.

The key to the light fixtures is a GOOD reflector. The all-glass lights are lousy. Most that I have seen just have a plastic white reflector. Mirror-like metal is the best.

If you decide to upgrade to a T5 - there are different kinds. There is a standard T5 which gives the same amount of light as a standard, a High Output T5, and a Very High Output T5. The HO T5 is quite a bit more intensive light than a standard, so one bulb would be plenty for a 20Long. Note, that I have found it difficult to find a T5 for a 30 inch tank. Most are 24,36,48. There are a few out there though. A 24 inch (24 watt) T5 HO centered correctly should be enough light for a 20Long.

If you decide to go with a power compact bulb, be aware that the intensity of these lights are 4 times the amount of a standard fluorescent. So, a power compact bulb that is 36 watts is comparable to about 144 watts standard. These work quite well, but you may have to mount it higher above the tank, and use your floating plants like duckweed to help filter the light. I use mostly power compacts.
You can get DIY power compact fixtures/retrofits here: http://ahsupply.com

I usually wait at least 2 weeks before adding fish to make sure I see some plant growth. I add ramshorn/MTS snails right away.

For your plants, try to get some Valisneria (not the jungle val. which gets too big for this tank). This plant will grow fast and send out runners in no time. The leaves are ribbon-like and need to be trimmed back on occasion. These are normally not sold in the pots.

Some plants I have found to grow fast (given enough light):
Valisneria (american or italian)
Rotala indica or rotundifolia
Dwarf hairgrass (needs good light - sand is best)
Hygrophila var. Sunset (one of my favorites) - might find some on Aquabid.com
Hygrophia augustifolia
Marsilea quadrifolia - you will love this plant - medium growth

Some good on-line stores: http://www.sweetaquatics.com
http://www.aquariumplants.com


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## kruege311 (May 30, 2008)

Wow! Thanks for all the quick responses, that was more than I had expected. Great suggestions everyone by the way.

First off, to Kubalik, thanks for the MacGuyver method of ugrading the lighting. I think I want to stick with regular long tube style fluorescents, however I will keep your suggestion in mind.

Tames, regarding your question about my fluorescent light wattage, it does say 17W on the bulb itself though I did notice on the manufacturer sticker on the hood itself it says 120V, 20W, 60Hz. So I guess that means the hood can take up to 20W max (not sure why they stick a 17W in it though. That kind of sucks too because I had kind of figured I would need a better bulb and was hoping I could just swap out the current 24" light and put in a new one (was going to use aluminum foil as reflecting material), however if I can only go up to 20W on this thing (and please correct me if I'm wrong) then I guess I'll need to return this hood and find one that can handle the higher wattage. (Oh and since you were curious about where I was from, I live in Michigan).

Helenf, thanks for giving me the rundown on how the plant stuff works. I guess the question of how long I want to wait before putting the fish in depends on how long I can keep my will power in check. It does sound like waiting a bit would be the way to go. I've already had the soil itself sitting in the tank for close to a week to help eliminate whatever it is that is supposed to get eliminated by airing out the soil.

I'll check out my local fish store here and see what they have on plants and lighting. We have the standard petsmart and pet supply plus places, but there is also a more specialized fish store in the area so they would probably be a good place to start.

Thanks again for the comments everyone.


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## Kubalik (May 24, 2008)

Hehe Its really simple tho here is a pic of how it looks after conversion . and it costs almost nothing.


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## kruege311 (May 30, 2008)

You're right Kubalik, that does look pretty easy to do. Is what you have in there considered "power" compacts like what was mentioned in tames post? If so I'd think that those would be too much light for a mere 20 gallon long tank like mine. Tames mentioned that a power compact of 36 watts would be equivalent to a 144 watt standard. Seems like that would be overkill, but maybe I'm thinking of that wrong.

I can't really tell by the pic, but how did you actually attach it to the plastic hood then? Are you using some kind of hook that screws into the hood and then you just slid the compacts into each hook? (Nice job on your mod by the way.)


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## Kubalik (May 24, 2008)

kruege311 said:


> You're right Kubalik, that does look pretty easy to do. Is what you have in there considered "power" compacts like what was mentioned in tames post? If so I'd think that those would be too much light for a mere 20 gallon long tank like mine. Tames mentioned that a power compact of 36 watts would be equivalent to a 144 watt standard. Seems like that would be overkill, but maybe I'm thinking of that wrong.
> 
> I can't really tell by the pic, but how did you actually attach it to the plastic hood then? Are you using some kind of hook that screws into the hood and then you just slid the compacts into each hook? (Nice job on your mod by the way.)


When you remove the original guts from the hood you are left with couple of screw slots and the sockets for bulbs that you buy come with screw holders ,so u simply screw those in . Going back to power stuff - those compact bulbs are regular fluorescent bulbs and you can buy them starting at 5w to probobly 100 watts . so what i would do , i'd put 2x20watts which would give us 2wpg .

NPT is all about low tech - this mod is low tech lol


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## kruege311 (May 30, 2008)

Thanks a million Kubalik. I'm gonna head on out now and look at some plants. I'm also going to take just a quick look at other light setups and if nothing seems to look decent I think I will try your setup as I think I could manage that just fine.


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## Kubalik (May 24, 2008)

Hehe not a problem 

Good luck with your tank man. My NPT setup is now 3 days old , just added couple more plants today .


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

can we get some pics?


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## Kubalik (May 24, 2008)

Ok here is a pic






. 
I am not a designer ... all i want is little natural jungle in the tank 
My vas is melting but thats how i got it from the store , hopefully it will recover .


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## tames (Apr 18, 2008)

Kubalik - I have wondered about the incandescent to fluorescent replacement bulbs. I REALLY like your idea. However, I think that even these bulbs are power compacts. I have a "40" watt package. When reading the package, the bulb is 10 watts. The light output is 40 watts (incandescent).

Light is actually measured in Lumens. It would be nice if someone would to a study of plant growth based on Lumens and not wattage. Diana?? 

You can buy just the mirror-like reflectors at ahsupply.com. Might be neat to try the reflector with two of the bulbs as you have done. Thanks for sharing this!


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## kruege311 (May 30, 2008)

I had been wondering about that output rating myself. I was at the local store yesterday as I was considering doing that light mod and when I was reading the packages of the compact fluorescents they had there they also mentioned stuff about it being equivalent to higher watt incandescents.

I was also wondering Kubalik, you mentioned in your post that "the sockets for bulbs that you buy come with screw holders" that can be used to screw into the hood, are the screw holders for those sockets a standard size? I guess what I'm after is how would I know if the socket I buy would have the right screw size for my hood?

I'll probably be making a trip to Lowe's today to take a gander at their lighting section and see what I can find. It's a shame they can't just put a decent rated watt output fixture in these deluxe hoods to begin with so people like me could just buy it, plug it in, and be done with it. But I guess that's what the expensive ones are for. This is what I get for being a cheap bastard.


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## Kubalik (May 24, 2008)

Ok .Novadays( for a long time now) no one is using incandescent bulbs for aquarium lighting. ANytime we talking about 2 watts per galon (2wpg) rule , we are actually talking about fluorescent watts per galon . Compact fluorescent light watts are same as regular fluorescent tube watts .So my suggestion is not to even think about incandescent watts at all or one can get confused. 

Rule is to get about 2 watts per gallon fluorescent . having 2 compact energy saving bulbs 20 watts each in your hood for a 20 gal tank will give you that. 

By the way i am using regular aluminum foil as my reflectors , having nice thin sheets of aluminum my work even better .

Sorry for mistakes and stuff . I am at work and shouldnt be using interent here . When i get some time i ll do step by step instructions with pics of how to do those lights . 

Thx


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## tames (Apr 18, 2008)

> Compact fluorescent light watts are same as regular fluorescent tube watts .So my suggestion is not to even think about incandescent watts at all or one can get confused.


Now to clarify, there may be a difference between the incandescent REPLACEMENT bulbs and the regular compact fluorescents that are sold for aquariums (these are twin tubes not curled in style). It is possible that the ones that I have are called Power Compact Fluorescents. They are MUCH brighter watt for watt than standard fluorescents.


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## Kubalik (May 24, 2008)

tames said:


> Now to clarify, there may be a difference between the incandescent REPLACEMENT bulbs and the regular compact fluorescents that are sold for aquariums (these are twin tubes not curled in style). It is possible that the ones that I have are called Power Compact Fluorescents. They are MUCH brighter watt for watt than standard fluorescents.


I dont think so .Take for example T5 tubebulbs . Regular t5s have 32 watts . There are t5s called HO high output - they are 55 wats .there are also VHOs -very high output they are like 100 watts . So whenever the brightness increases - watts increase also .


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## kruege311 (May 30, 2008)

Hey Kubalik I was just wondering if by any chance you found some time to make a set of instructions on how you did that light hood mod. I'm not trying to rush you, I was just wondering.

I did in the meantime decide to try my basic 17 watt tube light that came with the hood just to see if any plants could live with that amount of light. So far I've had plants in there for about 3 days and most of them look like they're doing ok. A few leaves have started turning a bit brown but from what I've read on this forum it's possible they might just be going through their acclimation process to my tank. I'll keep an eye on them and see how it goes. Most likely I will still need more wattage in the long run but I thought this might be a nice experiment to see how the stock lighting would work.


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## Kubalik (May 24, 2008)

hey there . I would do it by now if my wife didnt leave the camera at her friends house . Once she gets it back i ll do it . Only thing i dont have the original parts so i ll start from how the hood looks after removal of its insides .


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## kruege311 (May 30, 2008)

Thanks Kubalik. Starting out with how it looks after it's initially gutted is just fine. In the meantime I took my light from my other aquarium and am using it to shine in light through the back wall of the aquarium. That one is 15 watts. So hopefully between that 15 watter and my 17 watter I'll be able to keep my plants looking a bit greener until I am able to mod the main light hood for the tank.


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## 2oto&acory&not.much.else (Jun 5, 2008)

Hope I can jump in and ask a question here- I plan on having a wooden canopy on my tank, is the lighting conversion safe to use with that? I have a very large clumsy cat so not having the wooden canopy is not an option. ( I'm assuming it'll keep him from ruining my lights by knocking them off)


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## Kubalik (May 24, 2008)

yeah 2wpg is general rule for any NPT .If its little less or little more its still ok . especially if u gonna use eco complete as ur gravel , i read that from ur other post ...


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## Kosh42|EFG (Jul 4, 2007)

Dustymac said:


> I bought most of my plants off Ebay for a fraction of what the local fish stores wanted. There are also people at this forum selling plants. Every species I received in the mail arrived in great shape and ready for growing. The more plants you start off with, the better natural filtration you get and the more fish you can have in the tank.


Looking at the US sites posted, plants sure seem expensive there. I spend £30 (about $60) for over 130 plants (that includes each individual stem, though), covering 25 species. I know some of these won't grow, but some will. I'm taking the "plant a whole load of different species and see what takes" approach advocated in the book.

As said, the more plants at the outset, the better filter they provide from the start. I hoping to not be able to see any gravel for plants within a few months


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## Kubalik (May 24, 2008)

Hey guys 
This is a link to the light conversion thread . Enjoy it :
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/52532-low-tech-cheap-lighting-guide.html


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## kruege311 (May 30, 2008)

Hey thanks for making that guide on the light conversion Kubalik. When I get some time I'll try and get mine converted over.


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