# Are deep rooted plants required for a successful Walstad method tank?



## Karen in San Jose (Jun 1, 2020)

Newbie here. I've read Diana's book and have tabs all through it, but I'm unsure of this (and many other things lol).

I have started with a 20 gallon open top tank. I promptly killed 9 out of the 10 neocardina shrimp I bought (or they came with some disease), and realize I need to just get my plants established and worry about fish later. There is one hardy shrimp left, but I told her (she's brightly colored, so I think she's a she - also new to shrimp) it's sink or swim, babe, I gotta get the plants established.

I love the look of Brazilian pennywort (Hydrocotyle leucocephala) as the leaves look like little lilly pads to me, and have planted a bunch of it in my tank, and wanted to make the tank mainly this plant. But, I didn't realize that it doesn't develop an extensive root system. Does it matter?

I have also planted some saggitaria subulata and a couple of tiger lotus plants. I planted the tank just 6 days ago, and everything is growing after a little initial melting of a couple of them. I also have a bunch of red root floaters (phyllanthus fluitans) and I have several mosses and riccia fluitans and guppy grass (najas guadelupensis) arriving this weekend.

I've lowered the water level so the plants can grow emergent until I get them really going - a compromise to the dry method, since I still have one shrimp and several snails. The pennywort started growing new leaves immediately and I've already pinched a few of them, hoping to get it to bush out, etc.

I'm wondering if I need to add some more deeply rooted plants to the tank for it to function properly, since the pennywort doesn't really get extensive roots? If so, can you suggest some that don't get huge? I really don't want to deal with vallisneria because I don't like the look of it growing over the surface and understand it turns brown or melts if you trim it. I'm probably one of the few who don't like that look of it draping over the surface, lol, but there you have it. I prefer a simple look, not a lot of different species. Makes it challenging. I wanted to feel like I'm looking at the secret world under the surface of a slow moving stream or pond- lots of moss and a little low-light plants under the floating/emergent plants above. I wouldn't mind Amazon swords, but I'm afraid they'd be cramped in my tank. Can I plant a couple in the back corners? They couldn't spread out there, is the thing.

I have hard city water. The tap water tests at KH 179ppm and GH 286.4ppm. 

I'm going to try and attach a photo. I built a temporary corral for the floaters, so the plants could get more light for now. Also, the rock and the redwood piece are not on the substrate. I glued the wood to a rock, and the rocks are on the bottom of the tank. The area around the wood is bare, because that's where I plan to put the moss type plants.

So, my hope is that the pennywort will fill the back and sides of the tank, that the tiger lotus plants will fill out (they already have new leaves), the sag will fill in a bit and the moss will go crazy. But, do I need more rooted plants for the Walstad method to function properly?

Thanks for any help. I was so excited to find this forum mentioned in Diana's book. It's so kind of you to help others like me. Apologies in case the post is rather rambling. I tend to do that.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

The sag & lotus are root feeders. They'll give you all the roots you want.

For the pennywort, I don't think pinching will create bushy look. You just group the runners close together. Leaves will come from the runner.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Yes, they are, but you already have two deep rooted species: red tiger lotus and dwarf sagittaria.


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## Karen in San Jose (Jun 1, 2020)

mistergreen said:


> The sag & lotus are root feeders. They'll give you all the roots you want.
> 
> For the pennywort, I don't think pinching will create bushy look. You just group the runners close together. Leaves will come from the runner.


Thanks so much! I can always wait to trim it where there are roots and plant those cuttings, then.


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## Karen in San Jose (Jun 1, 2020)

Michael said:


> Yes, they are, but you already have two deep rooted species: red tiger lotus and dwarf sagittaria.


Oh, thank you. I didn't know if they were enough. That's great news! I really can't afford to buy more plants now either lol.


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## tiger15 (Apr 9, 2017)

Yes, I believe Walstad works best with deep rooted plants because the approach centered on furnishing nutrients from rich soil. With a few exception, stem plants do poorly in Walstad system because they uptake nutrients mostly from the water column.


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## Karen in San Jose (Jun 1, 2020)

I thought I'd update: I decided to go ahead and order some vallisneria after all, as I can always remove it later, to get things rolling more quickly. I will also put some into my 5 gallon daphnia Walstad tank, where the cloudiness of the daphnia food is making it hard for the sag and pennywort in that tank to get enough light to grow very fast. I also ordered some hornwort to help stabilize the water parameters. So much for not buying more plants lol. I can see this is going to be an expensive hobby. The more plants I learn about, the more I want after all.

By the way, the lone shrimp survivor is still alive and kicking. She'd be a good breeder for some hardy stock. She loves the najas grass I put in the tank, which is floating above the rock now and she loves hanging out on the rock under it.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Glad you've got a survivor shrimp. I like that you lowered the water level while getting things started.

Based on picture, I see a soil underlayer and a gravel cover that's not too deep. Then you've got hard water and now lots of good plant species. Sounds and looks promising!

One thing I've learned is that you can give Vallisneria a hair cut, which I do all the time now to keep it under control.


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## Karen in San Jose (Jun 1, 2020)

dwalstad said:


> Glad you've got a survivor shrimp. I like that you lowered the water level while getting things started.
> 
> Based on picture, I see a soil underlayer and a gravel cover that's not too deep. Then you've got hard water and now lots of good plant species. Sounds and looks promising!
> 
> One thing I've learned is that you can give Vallisneria a hair cut, which I do all the time now to keep it under control.


That's so good to know, thank you! I have read conflicting things about vallisneria not doing well if trimmed.

My water parameters have really improved. You know who LRB Aquatics is, as I have seen you mention Lucas - well, I purchased some of his tank/mulm water - he's selling it for $5.00 a bag, which I thought was brilliant! My water parameters improved overnight. So now, I have zero ammonia, very low nitrites and nitrates have gone up to 4ppm. I did a water change to improve nitrates, but this is a great improvement and I'm excited. When the vallisneria and hornwort arrive, I expect even better results.

This whole ammonia-nitrite-nitrate conversion stuff just makes my head explode. Doing your method requires much more understanding than I was required to achieve in the past, even though I was able to keep cardinal tetras and hatchetfish, etc., in hard water with a HOB filter. It's a whole new world, which is very exciting to learn, even if I feel like a total dunce in the meantime. Not good at science, never have been, but I will eventually at least figure out how to keep my livestock and plants healthy and happy - be it pigs or horses or dogs or freesias or cardinal tetras or a Walstad method tank of plants and creatures


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Diana is right about the vallisneria. I cut mine off at the water surface when ever it gets too long. And if the rhizomes spread into an area where I don't want them, I just cut the leaves off at the substrate.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

Do the cut leaves die/turn brown/melt after you cut them?


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## Karen in San Jose (Jun 1, 2020)

Michael said:


> Diana is right about the vallisneria. I cut mine off at the water surface when ever it gets too long. And if the rhizomes spread into an area where I don't want them, I just cut the leaves off at the substrate.


Thank you so much for adding the info about cutting the sprouts off at the substrate. This was another concern I had and you read my mind. I really don't like disturbing the substrate and loathed the idea of having to dig down to cut the rhizomes. This is really great news. I'm so glad you shared this info.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

jatcar95 said:


> Do the cut leaves die/turn brown/melt after you cut them?


No, hair-cutting Vallisneria at about a 10 inch leaf length produced no problems whatsoever. It's like mowing a lawn.


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## tiger15 (Apr 9, 2017)

dwalstad said:


> No, hair-cutting Vallisneria at about a 10 inch leaf length produced no problems whatsoever. It's like mowing a lawn.


So Vals respond differently from other grassy plants. When I cut short my Sag and tall Hair Grass, the tips turned brown and the whole leaves eventually died back.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

It seems like Sagittaria would respond the same as Val. As you note, they are grassy plants that grow from the bottom (basal growth as opposed to the apical growth of Crypts, Echinodorus, etc.)

I should have been more specific. It was a trim, not a lawn mowing. With *sharp* scissors, I only cut off the top 10-20% of the longer leaves of healthy, well-established Val. The corkscrew/Italian Val that I have doesn't get very big and fits in my 10 gal tanks (12" or 25 cm high). I left a good 10-12" of leaf length behind. I have seen no browning or die back, just more growth!

I respect that a grassy plant is wounded somewhat during trimming and will need to repair itself.


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