# dry fert help



## drgold (Oct 22, 2006)

I have the luxury of pulling everything together before setting it all up and now I'm in the fertilizer planning stage. Can someone tell me what I'll need to buy from Greg Watson as far as dry ferts? 

My stats are as follows:
36x18x24h (65USG) AGA tank 2.3 WPG 8000k t-8's, pressurized CO2 w/ milwaukee regulator and pH controller. Filtration is 2x eheim eccos, 1 w/ an 18watt UV. 

3" eco complete substrate
14 mature male rainbowfish, 3 fancy plecos, 5 SAE's and a rescue white cloud
- dwarf sag, lace java fern (tied to flat driftwood) in the foreground
- med? sag, red rubin sword, amazon sword, sm. crypts in the midground
- jungle val, sunset hygro, wisteria in the background
- water sprite floating in 1/3 of the tank (over the swords/java fern)

I do a 50% WC weekly. For now, I'm dosing excel daily + fluorish and iron weekly. Plants all look great. The CO2 isn't running yet. (I'm moving in stages to not shock the fish)

Thanks a lot!!

Andy


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

I think you can find most of the info you are looking for here

A pound of KNO3 should last you for at least a year and the others will probably last longer. For $25 or so including shipping you can have a year's plus supply. It's hard to beat that.

If you have more questions after reading the article, ask away


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

I would probably go with a pound each of:

CSM+B, KNO3, K2SO4, KH2PO4. Buy everything you think you will need, it will be really cheap and last you a long time. I wish I would have bought KH2PO4 with my first order, but I figured since I had high P anyway, I wouldn't need to. So, ended up doing the fleets enema dosing for P. 

Depending on your current (and goal level) GH and KH, you may want to consider getting CaCO3 and MgSO4.


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## drgold (Oct 22, 2006)

what about Iron? Can I assume that CSB+B is my "trace" and will supply adequate iron? The fertilator said that .25 tsp will provide .17ppm of iron. Is that correct? 

My kh is 4.5 and my gh is around 11ish, I think. Will these be adequate?


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

I have found that I don't need to dose additional iron when using CSM+B. However, when I use Flourish or Tropica Master Grow for my micros, I do need to add supplemental iron. Your situation may vary depending on your substrate and local water supply. 

You can always purchase some iron when you get the rest of your ferts. It will be cheaper to buy it initially than to find you need it later and have to pay for the iron and the addition shipping th get it separately 

Your KH and GH sound good depending on what part of the country you are in. Some folks in Florida and I believe in the west have a GH that is made up mostly of Calcium. I think Bert H. is one of the Florida folks and I believe he needs to add Magnesium to his water. You should be able to find Magnesium Sulfate at any pharmacy or Wal Mart very inexpensively.


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## drgold (Oct 22, 2006)

thanks! It looks like I'll be buying CSM+B, KHSO4, K2SO4, KNO3, CaCl2, and MgSO4. Will all these additives affect my fish at all? In total I'll be adding almost 4 teaspoons of "stuff." Now...do I dose what the fertilator tells me three times per week, or do I need to break that amount into three doses? Basically, do I add the 4 teaspoons of "stuff" three times in a week, or dose 1.33 teaspoons three times per week? Thanks for all the help!

Andy


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Gregg Watson has a product called Barr's GH Booster. He recommends that you add an equal amount of Epsom Salt when you dose. 

My water is very soft and I use it. I don't know if you will need it or not.


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## drgold (Oct 22, 2006)

still confused. The article guidelines say to dose three times per week but the fertilator just calculates the proper nutrient levels. Will the plants absorb nutrients so fast that I need to add ferts 3x weekly? I'm nervous about adding 10ppm nitrate 3x weekly, and not sure if that's really what I'm supposed to be doing. Thanks for the help!

Andy


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## azadehm1 (Oct 11, 2006)

I'm not trying to steal the thread but I'm in the same type of situation where I'm just figuring out what to dose and how much.
My question is why didn't anyone recommend the premixed stuff that is on the site (PMDD)? It seems a lot easier than buying most of it seperately.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

I would follow the guidelines in John's article for dosing. Your tank probably has a water volume closer to 55g when you take into account substrate and any hardscape displacement. Following those guidelines, you would be adding 8ppm of NO3 3x a week for a total of 24ppm. 

If your plants use half of this throughout the course of the week you would be left with about 12ppm of residual NO3 in the tank. Half of this will again be removed through the water change and you start over. There will be slow buildup in the tank over time but it should not exceed twice the amount you are dosing or 48ppm even if the plants do not use any of the NO3 you add. 

The fish will be fine with the addition of 30ppm of NO3 per week. I would not dose 30ppm all at one time though. If you are really nervois about your fish, you could drop the NO3 to 3/8 of a teaspoon or about 6ppm of NO3 per dose. HOwever, if your plants end up using closer to 4ppm per day, you may find you have a deficiency and the plant growth will slow or stop. This is the point when algae usually begins to show. 

Whether you need the Calcium and Magnesium will depend on your GH and KH readings. Do you know what they are?


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

azadehm1 said:


> My question is why didn't anyone recommend the premixed stuff that is on the site (PMDD)? It seems a lot easier than buying most of it seperately.


While it may seem to be easier, a lot of folks don't need the Magnesium in the PMDD premix and it also lacks the phosphate the plants need. By adding the ferts individually, you have a bit more control over what goes into the tank. This is especially helpful for folks with higher levels of NO3 or PO4 in their tap water or those who have high NO3 levels in their tanks such as Discus keepers.

It is really a personal preference but if you go with the PMDD, you will also need to purchase some form of phosphate to add. That begins to take some of the convenience out of it since you now have to add 2 itmes.


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## drgold (Oct 22, 2006)

kh is 4.5 and gh is about 11, I think. the gh is close to 11, if not exact. I just saw your post above about being in florida or out west and how that can affect hemistry. I'm in the midwest and my water supply comes from the detroit river by way of lake st. clair. It's actually very very good water for most applications and there are folks around here keeping stingrays and discus in it with no modifications. I keep a mbuna tank with nothing added but lace rock and the fish are thriving.


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## redstrat (Apr 3, 2006)

I think what Mat Pat was saying about GH and water chemistry varying across the country is a reference to the correct ratio of Calcium and Magnesium, in the regions he referred to this ratio may be skewed one way or another and it can affect the growth of the plants. Plants seem to prefer calcium and magnesium to be close to this ratio and people in the mentioned areas need to make corrections by adding Mg to balance the ratio. The Midwest generally seems to have something close to the correct ratio but as always your mileage may vary and every municipality’s water supply will be different and may not be the same from day to day. It all boils down to what is really making up your GH. GH8 in Orlando may not be the same as a GH8 in Indianapolis, its important to understand this in order to know if you need to add Mg or Ca to correct the ratio.

KH doesn't play as much of a role in dry fert dosing. It does however affect the PH of the water, and is very important when adding CO2. A KH of 4.5 is great for a planted tank; anything below a KH of 3 is probably to low and could allow some pretty drastic PH swings which could affect fish health.


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