# PPS w/water changes and Potassium Deficiency



## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

I am experimenting with PPS with water changes on a ten gallon that is beginning to show tell tale signs(few yellowing leaves on some plants with other plants having yellow leaves with pinholes, stems still green, and yellowing starts in centre and continues to extend from centre to edges of leaves) of a potassium deficiency. It is not too bad right now and barely noticeable, but I fear it could turn ugly if neglected. I had some seachem potassium which was part of the fert dosing that I was testing on another tank, so I decided to dose with the extra potassium. I would prefer to modify the PPS with water changes recipe to incorporate additional potassium, but I am unsure of the starting/safe amount that I should increase the potassium component by, or if I should just wait it out in the hopes that the deficiency will correct itself with continued dosing of PPS with water changes. Okay, please don't flame me, but as far as testing the potassium levels, I can honestly tell you that I have phoned all the fish stores in my city and none of them carry potassium test kits. I cannot even find a seller on E-Bay. I would like nothing more than to test the potassium levels and tell you what they are but without a test kit this is not possible, so I can only eyeball changes and go by tell tale signs pointing to an emerging potassium deficiency. I really don't want to keep dosing with Seachem potassium as this can get rather expensive over time and I need to save Seachem Potassium for the Seachem dosing regime I am experimenting with on another tank. Any suggestions, feedback, or recommendations would be most appreciated. Thank you.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

http://www.petsolutions.com/default.aspx?ItemId=12516807&EID=12516807&SID=FROOGLE is one place to get a potassium test kit, and they ship to Canada, too.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

hoppycalif said:


> http://www.petsolutions.com/default.aspx?ItemId=12516807&EID=12516807&SID=FROOGLE is one place to get a potassium test kit, and they ship to Canada, too.


Many thanks  I just ordered it. The shipping was brutal, but oh well, it's a hobby. In the meantime, do you recommend messing with the potassium levels or leaving them as is until the kit arrives and the test results confirm the need to increase potassium levels? My fear is that this problem could turn real ugly by the time the kit arrives and then it may be too little too late. I wanted to nip the problem in the bud, to sort of speak.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I have an opinion about the need for you to add more potassium, but I don't have the experience or expertise to defend that opinion. But, my opinion is that if you are dosing KNO3 for nitrates, and dose enough to supply the NO3 you already have enough K.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Hi Homer

I had a little trouble with pinholes or K deficiency with my _Barclaya longfoilia_ using PPS-Pro. I just added a little extra K from time to time and it wasn't a problem then on. I don't remember who it was now, but someone else had a little trouble with K deficiency. They just doubled the amount of K2SO4 in the macro mix. You can search around and find out more about it.

Left C


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Left C said:


> Hi Homer
> ...They just doubled the amount of K2SO4 in the macro mix. You can search around and find out more about it...
> Left C


Thanks Left C, I will try that. I just took water parameter readings today....and quite interesting to say the least. Ammonia: 0, Nitrite: 0, Nitrates: 40 ppm(I am shocked and speechless that one really skyrocketed), and Phosphates: 5+(Again another shocker, no change in this one eventhough I stopped using P04 in the PPS recipe). I feed the fish so little that I am surprised they have not died of starvation, plus I am continuing with 50% weekly water changes, so the high P04 and nitrates(my tap water tested 0 for nitrates) are truly surprising. I guess there is no compensating for an overstocked tank.

:-x Must be that stupid, constant pooping Bristlenose Pleco creating too much waste. Over the next little while I am going to cram a few more fast growing stem plants, like hygrophilia polysperma in the tank to try and suck up the excess nitrates and phosphates.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Hi
Because of your high fish load you need to do more periodic water changes to keep fish waste levels under control. Too many fish not enough plants. Start flushing the aquarium until the tap levels equal the aquarium levels. Vacuum your substrate if necessary.

Do you use real K2SO4 to mix up the PPS-Pro solution? PPS already comes with 2x more K then KNO3 fertilizer alone. It's unlikely to develop K deficiency unless there are some other problems. If you like you can make another macro solution with K2SO4 only and dose at the same time and rate as the original fertilizers. This will add another 50% of K.

I would at this point test your tap NO3, PO4, Ca and Mg. Then call your City water department to get Sodium level readings. 

Next make your solutions as prescribed, including all of the chemicals. This will guarantee the best nutrient supply for plants that will in return remove more fish waste.

Thank you
Edward


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

How do you make your PPS solutions?


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Edward said:


> How do you make your PPS solutions?


Thanks for your help Edward

I recently switched from PPS-Pro to PPS with water changes(o.k. I noticed that PPS with water changes is no longer referenced in the PPS systems summary post - what am I missing??) for the 10 gallon as per my signature. I figured since I do 50% weekly water changes, it just made more sense.

I used this as a reference to make my solutions using 500 Ml distilled water for each solution. I am not sure what you mean by using real K2S04 for the solution. The K2S04 that I am using says potassium sulphate on the container. 
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...dback/30659-how-make-pps-classic-pps-pro.html

Given that my Tap Water phosphates are 5+ppm and that my tank is overstocked, plus my tank phophate levels measure over 5 ppm. I don't dose with the SS solution. Instead, I dose with the PF, MG, and TE solutions.

I dose daily with 5Ml PF solution, followed by 10 drops MG solution, followed by 10 drops TE solution, approximately one hour before the lights come on. 50% weekly water change every Saturday.

The nitrate level in my tap water measures 0 but the tank level tests at 40 ppm

As far as magnesium, calcium, and sodium levels go, I don't have test kits to measure magnesium and calcium. Again, the local fish stores in my area don't sell magnesium test kits, but they do sell calcium test kits. I am awaiting a potassium test kit that I ordered to try and confirm potassium levels and for monitoring purposes. As far as sodium levels ago, this city water tap analysis is all I have to go by. I know that they are not the most accurate. 
http://winnipeg.ca/waterandwaste/water/testResults/Winnipeg.stm

The city report indicates tap water sodium levels as 2.02 ppm average with a city wide range of 1.86 ppm - 2.19 ppm.

Calcium average is: 21.7 ppm with a range of 19 ppm - 23.1 ppm

Magnesium average is: 5.87 ppm with a range of 5.17 ppm - 6.41 ppm

Now, I am beginning to wonder if the UV sterilizer is contributing to deficiency symptoms by reducing the total nutrients in the water available for plant uptake.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Hi
Sorry for the confusion, I have removed the _PPS-Classic With Water Changes_ from the PPS list. There is really no need for it, PPS-Pro is much easier. Only one macro and one micro solution, no testing, simple 1ml/10gall dose once a day and water changes as desired. 

I suggest you switch back to PPS-Pro, include all of the prescribed ingredients,

*Macro Solution*
In 1 liter bottle:
59 grams K2SO4 (Potassium Sulfate)
65 grams KNO3 (Potassium Nitrate)
6 grams KH2PO4 (Mono Potassium Phosphate)
41 grams MgSO4 (Magnesium Sulfate)
Fill with distilled water and shake well. Let sit overnight.

*Micro Solution*
In 1 liter bottle:
80 grams of CSM+B or equivalent trace element mix
Fill with distilled water and shake well. Let sit overnight.

Or use the PPS-Pro Solutions Recipe calculator for more quantities. The reason for using all of the ingredients is because some of the compounds in tap water may not be fully usable by plants. 

You have a nice city water report, details. 
&#8230; 160 uS conductivity, pretty good soft water
&#8230; GH 76ppm / 4 dGH
&#8230; KH 63 ppm / 3.5 dKH
&#8230; Na 2 ppm, very good, less is better
&#8230; Ca 20 ppm, this is on the edge, some plants may be deficient. You need to add CaSO4 after water change. Two grams / 10 gallons add ~15 ppm Ca. Total Ca levels of 35 - 45 ppm are necessary. You can dose dry, see APC Fertilator.
&#8230; Mg 6 ppm, is very high, this is your tap water highest element and reason why you need to get more Ca 

Start changing water daily until you get aquarium NO3 to < 5 ppm.

UV sterilizers do not cause any harm nor do they negatively affect nutrients.

Thank you
Edward


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Many thanks Edward, I will switch back to PPS-Pro. Can I dose with CaCL2 or CaS03 form of calcium or does it have to be calcium sulphate(CaS04)? CaCl2 or CaS03 is easier to obtain. Thanks.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

*CaCl2* if done with frequent water changes and in small quantities of 15 ppm in your case will work well. It dissolves fast and can be dosed liquid for increased accuracy. Higher levels are harmful to plants and fish due to extreme Cl levels. 

*CaSO3*, sorry no experience

*CaCO3* increases KH too much, clouds water - takes days to dissolve in aquarium and many plants don't do well. 

*CaSO4* doesn't dissolve in small quantity of water, must be dosed dry. In aquarium dissolves in minutes, works very well for plants and fish. 500 gram jar will last 5 years.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Edward said:


> *CaCl2* if done with frequent water changes and in small quantities of 15 ppm in your case will work well. It dissolves fast and can be dosed liquid for increased accuracy. Higher levels are harmful to plants and fish due to extreme Cl levels.
> 
> *CaSO3*, sorry no experience
> 
> ...


Thanks  I have ordered the CaS04.


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