# Shrimp Hatchery Rack (New Pics added 11-15-05)



## gnatster

For a while now I've been wanting to setup a few tanks with a few different types of shrimp and start breeding them.

Currently housed in the system pictured below:

Cherry 
Bumblebee
Crystal Red
Rainbow
Green
Indian Blue?

Along with various shrimp species there are multiple types of mosses, including:

Java
Weeping
Taiwan
Xmas
Locally collected Willow type
Unknown variety Amano brought from Japan for AGA demo.

More tanks are on order, seems a local university cleaned every out of 5gal recently. Also have 10 2.5's on the way for selective cross breeding experiments.


----------



## Piscesgirl

Very cool, Gnat -- I'll be interested in how your operation goes. What do the 'Indian Blues' look like?


----------



## gnatster

What was advertised as Indian Blue may be a Caridina cf. babaulti variant. I was only able to get 2, hoping they are male and female. Looking to eventually cross them with the Green Caridina cf. babaulti.


----------



## John P.

gnatster said:


> What was advertised as Indian Blue may be a Caridina cf. babaulti variant. I was only able to get 2, hoping they are male and female. Looking to eventually cross them with the Green Caridina cf. babaulti.


Would love to buy some babaultis from you when you're ready.


----------



## amber2461

Love the setup, makes more sense this way too ... will think about setting up something similar. Thanks for posting and showing us.


----------



## tapmxt1

What kind of rack is it? And how big are your tanks? Are they 10gal tanks?


I had bought 2 types of racks (4 feet wide. one is 2 feet deep and another is 18 inch deep). They both claim they can support 1,500 pounds each shelf. Guess what, with four 10gal tanks (all are bare bottoms), the shelf starts curving. My 10gal tanks must be built with some outer space material and must be un-believably HEAVY.


----------



## czado

Nice. Are you running the sponge filters off the same pump? What are the floating red plants? Just curious.


----------



## AaronT

The floating red plants are Phyllanthus fluitans or redroot floater is it's common name. The leaves are a tad smaller than frogbit and it gets little tiny white flowers under super intense lighting.


----------



## Edward

0123456789


----------



## gnatster

Ha!! If my walls were only that white Edward....

The rack is 48 x 18 x 74. Tank sizes range from 2 - 20 gal, the majority being 5gal right now. The shelves are rated are 350lb per shelf and do deflect a little. All the tanks have sponge filters, each shelf has it own air pump, mostly for redundancy as well the ability to make quick and easy changes to the setup.


----------



## JanS

Nice setup Gnat. I like the fact that the tanks are close together on the shelves and you can see what's going on it each one at a glance.

How long does it take you to do maintenance (water changes, etc.) on the whole works?


----------



## aquatic-store.com

Cool setup there I have a question about the Indian Blue?
Is that just a pale blue one or is it blue with stripes like the zebra? The reason i ask is i have one from an import that is like a zebra only much more blue


----------



## gnatster

Pale Blue, I've tried to take some pictures but none have come out. I would be interested in striped one you have. Can you send me some pricing info on them please. PM is ok if desired. 

Thanks


----------



## Piscesgirl

Are the striped ones Blue Tiger shrimp? Those I would love to get some of!


----------



## gnatster

While doing water changes today I found I indeed do have a male and female "Indian Blue" Try as I may, took over 100 shots, I can't seem to get a decent one. This was the best I could come up with.










CRS's are growing nicely too. The picture really gives a good scale of how small these are still. Substrate is Eco-Complete.


----------



## Piscesgirl

Looking good, Gnat! Can definitely see those stripes against the Eco Complete


----------



## gnatster

CRS Chowing down on Cyclop-eeze flake


----------



## gnatster

*7-2-05 Update*

Some new pictures

Added lights to all the shelves now, more tanks on the way, adding 3 5.5gal and 1 2.5gal










Both tanks of Cherry Shrimp have new fry. Note the 2 very small fry on the Algae sheet. I'm finding all the varieties attack these algae sheets with gusto when fed.










The Crystal Reds are getting large. Looking daily now for signs of eggs as they are approaching maturity.










Unfortunately the Bumblebee and Green Shrimp both sourced from a lfs have passed. I am finding that the imported shrimp the lfs has do not do well. Domestically raised ones are fairing much better.

Indian Blues aka Rainbow carried only a few eggs, they are small shrimp after all, and their are some fry running about in that tank too.

I've also branched out and am trying some clawed shrimp. Picked up a pair of Red Claw (_Macrobrachium assamensis_) that seem to be doing quite well. These buggers love snails. They reach in the shell with those long pincers and pull the body out. Not exceedingly social, they like to hide in a burrow they made under some moss.

Looking forward to some new arrivals soon. Also going to cross the two different sourced Cherries, picking the best from each in an effort to make the color strong and keep the lines viable.

Looking for some software to help me track crosses and back crosses. I've found lots for every animal out there but nothing for fish/shrimp. I'm surprised some enterprising Betta or Discus breeder had not created a package to do this. Currently I am using Excel spreadsheets but I can see once crosses and especially back crosses are done it will become unwieldy. If you know of anything or can program and want to help create one I'm game to assist.


----------



## scitz

Hey gnat,

Are those Ikea shelves? I have the Ikea Gorm shelving units. I have the 20" deep units set up with 20" height between each helf. This runs all the way to the ceiling when I added the extension pieces. I have 2 10 gallon tanks, one in each of the middle 2 shelves. I have two shelving units side by side with a total of 4 tanks. On the right hand side unit, I have a 10g planted tank, and a 10g nano-reef tank. On the left hand side I have my Crested Geckos, and my dentrobates azureus (electric blue poison dart frog). The right side unit doesnt bow at all even with six months of periodic dousing with water.


----------



## gnatster

Another week goes by and a few more tanks are added in anticipation of some some new acquisitions. Until they are on hand I'm not going to list them so not to jinx the process.

The female Red Claw is ripe with berries now and in a few weeks there should be a quite a few little ones running about. Looking forward to growing them out. I need to move the current pair from their home in a 5.5 gal to at least a 10.

Cherries have been having brood after brood as cherries do. I've singled out this female and am always looking in the tanks for a great looking male to mater her with.










I know, I should clean the glass before taking pictures.

Crystal Reds are looking to be about full sized now so I'm ever vigilant looking for a female that carrying.

Rack with new tanks, still have more space....










Scitz, those shelves are from Lowe's. The one at Ikea and Bed Bath and Beyond are only 3" long and not as deep.


----------



## gnatster

Yet another week has passed and there are only a few small items to report.

This weeks picture










As you can see the CRS are getting large. I am checking often for eggs. Frankly I am a bit disappointed in the coloration they are showing in the stripes. The white area is not as pure as I would have liked and I am looking at acquiring another batch from a different source. I think I will be able to isolate some of the better ones and get a decent line going but it will be a good bit of work.

Speaking of isolating and working on bettering a line. I have identified 2 male and 2 female Cherry Red's that are of as a working title "Super Red" and have them paired off in separate tanks. Males have fully red bodies, much more so then typical. Females are a deep red with a distinct deep orange stripe down the back. My photo skills lack in capturing the beauty of these, but I am working on it.

This week brought a new addition, S was kind enough to part with some of his lovely Tigers. He has some for sale too, and while they are still small as juveniles he was kind enough to send me one pair of more mature ones. They are striking. I do find they like to hide a lot more then most of the others, or it's just new tank jitters still. Time will tell.

The Red Claw female is still carrying and will be for the next few weeks. I understand it take 5-6 weeks till the eggs hatch. Their normal fare has been supplemented with snails. Very interesting watching them pull the snail from its shell and devour it.

I've also been experimenting with a new food in one tank this week. I came across some "Snail Crisps". I found these on Aquabid and after some discussion with the maker of them and securing an ingredients list she sent me a small package to sample. The shrimp attack it with gusto both times I've fed them Whit it. What I find particularly appealing is they have a very high Ca level both from the Ca powder and the eggs shells used. All the greens used are all high in Iodine too. I've also seen these type of product called Snail Snax, Snail Cookies and Snail Trail Mix, some of them do have added copper.

No new additions are planned for the next few weeks, with the midsummer heat I'd rather not play with shipping if I don't have to. I do have some irons in the fire for some interesting Nerites as well as some other shrimp and snail varieties.

Till next time...


----------



## shalu

gnatster said:


> Frankly I am a bit disappointed in the coloration they are showing in the stripes. The white area is not as pure as I would have liked


I had similar experience. The juveniles are more attractive, they have more white bands. However, as they mature, most tend to lose some of the white areas, either turning clear or turning red. Out of 6 adults I currently have, only one I would classify as close to an "S" grade, the rest look like whats in your picture more or less. Out of two dozen of my tank bred juvenile app. 2 months old, many look very nice with strong white areas, I wonder how many can keep it this way.



gnatster said:


> Speaking of isolating and working on bettering a line. I have identified 2 males and 2 females that are of as a working title "Super Red" and have them paired off in separate tanks. Males have fully red bodies, much more so then typical. Females are a deep red with a distinct deep orange stripe down the back. My photo skills lack in capturing the beauty of these, but I am working on it.


Are you talking about crystal reds or cherry reds here?


----------



## gnatster

> Are you talking about crystal reds or cherry reds here?


Good point.

Cherries.

I edited the post to reflect that. Thanks for picking that up.


----------



## AaronT

No snowball shrimp yet?


----------



## gnatster

This week greets us with some new arrivals. I was at the lfs with a few other folks from GWAPA after the monthly meeting and tucked away in unmarked tank were these.



















I don't know what they are either. I'm open to suggestions.


----------



## neonfish3

The bottom pic looks like the chameleon shrimp that I had. Does it have one long arm.










The other one ,if it's different, looks like the red-spotted shrimp that I used to have.

Steve T.


----------



## gnatster

No long arms and the rostrum is less pronounced too. They have a definite Caridina body structure.


----------



## shalu

I think I have some similar unknown shrimps(LFS called them red and blue shrimp),


----------



## gnome

Gnatster,

The top one and the right one on the lower photo... Do they look sort of like this?:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mizmo_naomi/detail?.dir=323e&.dnm=217a.jpg&.src=ph

and this?:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mizmo_naomi/detail?.dir=323e&.dnm=ba3c.jpg&.src=ph

And here's the best photo I could find on-line that resembles most closely what I have (7th photo down on the page):
http://www.crusta10.de/index.php?page=7&sideid=news_de

Nobody seems to know what they are. I've seen photos of them as "Macrobrachium sp." but their pincers and arms seem even smaller than my cherry red shrimp's. I've also seen the same shrimp labelled as "Caridina sp." (as on the linked page) which I think is more accurate. One on-line shop is calling them "red dragon shrimp."

These guys really like to hide. The first one I got for free when I spotted it in a container of "algae-eating shrimp" (which usually only consists of Amano shrimp and Malayan shrimp). I think I got it back in January or February, thinking it was going to die like all of my small shrimp usually do. But just when I was sure it was gone, it would show up. As far as I can tell, it's still alive. I bought three more from another shop, and they have no idea what they are, either. But they're dang hardy since they're all still alive.

Also, after a few weeks in my tank, they turn a beautiful sort of brownish-red. But when I bought them, they were clear or white with that distinctive red "swipe" on its body, close to its head, and that red line down the middle segmentation line across its back. It's not particularly fancy, but nice enough... At least they don't die on me left and right.

The one on the left on the bottom photo looks almost like one that was called "Indian zebra shrimp" at Aquatic-store.com. Hard to tell from the photo (no offense).

Awesome set-up, BTW. If you get the industrial model of this shelf, they're rated to support up to 800 lbs. per shelf. But this only if the weight is distributed evenly. At least you don't live in earthquake country  .

-Naomi


----------



## gnatster

There are two areas where I get the most questions so I thought I would discuss them this week.

*Food and Feeding *

People always ask me what and how often do I feed, if I feed at all. Rest assured, I do feed the shrimp, for the volume of them on hand there I cannot grow enough algae to keep them satiated. Like anything else we keep a good variety off foods is important to meet their nutritional needs. However one has to be careful with many of the commercially available products on the market and reed the ingredients list carefully. Many of the algae wafer brands we all take for granted are "clean" contain copper sulfate. While occasionally a small amount of copper is probably good in the diet prolonged exposure to these foods in my observation have led to large die offs. Currently I use a wide variety of foods including:

Hikari Crab Cuisine
Hikari Algae Wafers (these are copper sulfate free)
Two Little Fishes Sea Veggies, multiple varieties
Cyclopeeze Flake
HBH Shrimp Pellets
Kens Fish Earthworm Pellets
I also have been feeding with great success a "Snail Cookie" product that once I had read the ingredients I just had to try some. The picture below shows how the shrimp (Juvenile Cherries) swarm to the food. That was taken within a few minutes of introduction. I am taking to the person that makes these and hope to offer them for sale soon.

Another food I want to try is a Japanese Crystal Red Shrimp food product. Hope to have some sent to me in the next few weeks.










*Water changes*

Another frequently asked question has to do with water changes, How do I do then, are they a pain for that many tanks and how ofter are they preformed?

In short, weekly 50% changes are done, every Sunday right before I sit down and write this weekly report. Using a 5/8's dia hose I drain 50% into a bucket watching to be sure I don't suck up any shrimp. Refills are RO water that has been mixed to the parameters desired the week before and allowed to age and mix all week. After I fill the tanks back up, with hose attached to a pump, I drain the rest of the water on the vessel outside to the grass, dump in pre-measured mix of Equilibrium and buffer and let it fill. Once the pump is submerged it's turned on to mix and when it starts to get cold again I'll keep a heater in there. A float valve shuts the water off when filled. All told I spend about 1/2 hr to change do all the 12 tanks.


----------



## AaronT

I wonder if that's not the Shri Lanka shrimp you got there gnat? I have one too and it's quite facsinating. It was labeled as a Burmese Bee Shrimp at AC for a while. The one I got was pregnant with bright green eggs, but nothing came of their hatching so I suspect it is not a livebearing shrimp.


----------



## gnatster

Midweek update

Was at a LFS today with Scitz and GMOP giving an out of town guest, Geo, a tour of some our local LFS and they had some new shrimp in stock.

May I present ....










The darker ones with the stripe are identified on my favorite German shrimp site as Neocaridina sp. "Roter Zwerg" or "Red Dwarf"

The blue ones were marked at the lfs as Sapphire Blue Shrimp and is also identified as a Neocaridina sp.

I need to pick up another 2.5gal tank to separate both varieties. It will be interesting to see how they breed and if the blue stays true in successive generations.

Another project I have in mind is acclimating Neritina virginea snail to FW. Picked up a 20H, (had an empty stand), hydrometer and substrate for that project today. Scitz donated his left over salt from his now torn down nano-reef. Thanks bud. I'll be setting that tank up quite soon and will cycle it in anticipation of acquiring the snails.


----------



## Piscesgirl

I like the blue shrimp there, Gnat. I hope the color holds/breeds.


----------



## amber2461

Congrats on your latest beauties!


----------



## Geo

Thanks for the tour and everything, Gnat!  Hope the shrimp work out well for ya, as do the snail project


----------



## gnatster

It's Sunday, water changes on all the tanks are complete and time to reflect upon the state of the shrimp.

You many have seen that earlier in the week I did a lfs run and found some blue colored shrimp there. The previous picture was hastily done on same day as tank setup and is not the best. Since then I have been able to produce these.




























As with many varieties of Neocardina they do vary in color from shrimp to shrimp. Notice the black on in the center of the 3rd picture. I've only seen them on line myself before and selling at 5 for 100 Euros. That one as far as I can tell is a female. I think she needs to be isolated and a suitable male found. I'm rather excited about these shrimp and have separated out all the ones (3) that don't have the blue in them.

While I was at the lfs they showed me one of the elusive Purple Tigers. They look just like any other Tiger shrimp but have distinctive purple stripes. Unfortunately when the put in the tank their was a now very fed catfish in there. We could only find 2 or 3 left and they didn't want to sell them. At first I was a bit put off by this as only 2-3 shrimp in the row of 60 plant tanks they have will get lost. In retrospect I'd rather obtain 10-15 at one shot from this lfs as their imported shrimp have a propensity to perish in the first few days. With a larger population I would have better chance of being able to start a breeding colony.

Below is the pair of "Super Red" Cherry Shrimp is was able to isolate. Curious to see how the offspring come out. The female is just starting to show a bit yellow in the saddle area. At best we are 5 weeks away from fry.










Speaking of fry, the female Red Claw has been berried for about 4 weeks now. Should only be another week or so before they hatch.

People are always asking me how the Crystal Reds are coming along if they are berried yet. I wish I could report that they are. I have done a bit of figuring. I received them in late May as month old shrimp at best. Being all I have read say 5-6 mo for sexual maturity it's probably another month or so away.

In other invert news I setup a SW tank today to experiment with acclimating Virgin Nerites to FW. More on that as it progresses.

Thats all for this week, thanks for following along.


----------



## Zongyi

Hello. I am very interested in the project you have going as I was thinking of doing something of the sort myself. I currently am useing a small plastic tub and a 3g tank to try and breed ghost shrimp and bumble bee shrimp. So far there are no eggs, but the shrimp are still small. My main concern is that when they do develope eggs and the eggs hatch, won't my siphoning for water changes suck all the fry out? How do you come by this with your weekly water changes?


----------



## gnatster

> My main concern is that when they do develope eggs and the eggs hatch, won't my siphoning for water changes suck all the fry out? How do you come by this with your weekly water changes?


I can certainly understand how this could be a concern. Water changes are accomplished with a 3/8" dia hose as a siphon. Water is taken from the middle of the tank away from all sides, plants and the bottom. This way I can see if a shrimp is swimming towards my hose and move it away if needed. It's a little more work intensive but I don't mind it. Takes me about a 1/2 hour to change and refill 13 tanks.


----------



## Zongyi

Interesting idea. I will have to try it myself. Would wrapping cloth on the end of this tube help or can the fry slip through? 

I have another question. Would the shrimp eat the fry? Do you separate them? If so, how? I was thinking that once the fry get to the size of maybe 0.5mm, the bigger shrimps would be able to catch them with their claws.

By the way, I'm currently useing a very large garden hose that sucks up just about anything  .


----------



## turbomkt

I actually take a typical mesh media bag (Like for carbon, etc) and put that over the end of my hose. Too small for almost anything to get through.

You could also try panty hose...


----------



## gnatster

> I have another question. Would the shrimp eat the fry? Do you separate them? If so, how? I was thinking that once the fry get to the size of maybe 0.5mm, the bigger shrimps would be able to catch them with their claws.


None of the shrimp I have eat their fry. In fact here is a picture of a lot of juveniles all gathered with an adult and sharing a tidbit of food.


----------



## Zongyi

Thanks a buch for the answers, you just rid me a large load of worries  . 

Just one more thing, how big are the shrimps when they just hatch?


----------



## Safado

Nate, How about putting me on a list of buyers for one of the offspring of the "Super Reds?" They look great!


----------



## scitz

Gnat, a pleasure to help out a fellow plant geek. Especially one who is as nice a person on the forums, on the chat and more so in real life 

I snagged on of those cubes from work. We actually also had a curved cornered one with a nano-filter for $24, which is the one I grabbed. I have a Azoo 7w cf to throw on it. I am thinking shrimp tank.

Anyhow, I haven't used a sponge filter in forever, but coulding you syphon from inside the uptake tube. the sponge would keep any shrimplets from getting sucked up. 
Might not be practical though, as I don't recall how the airline connects.


----------



## gnatster

> Just one more thing, how big are the shrimps when they just hatch?


Cherry Reds are rather small. 1-2 mm and no coloration. Takes about a week for them to color up some.



> Nate, How about putting me on a list of buyers for one of the offspring of the "Super Reds?" They look great!


It remains to be seen if the "Super Red" is genetics, dietary or a combination of both. Having read conflicting reports the only way I will know for sure is to experiment myself. This will take time to detemine. I do know there are others working on the same "problem" and we have been sharing data.



> I haven't used a sponge filter in forever, but coulding you syphon from inside the uptake tube. the sponge would keep any shrimplets from getting sucked up.
> Might not be practical though, as I don't recall how the airline connects


Interesting idea, will have to try it and see how it works. The problem I foresee is reduced siphon efficiency with the bubbles from the filter coming up and entering the siphon tube. Of course one could always shut the air pump during the process too.


----------



## Zongyi

And I thought they would be plankton sized  . At least I know I will be able to see them  .


----------



## Safado

gnatster said:


> Cherry Reds are rather small. 1-2 mm and no coloration. Takes about a week for them to color up some.
> It remains to be seen if the "Super Red" is genetics, dietary or a combination of both. Having read conflicting reports the only way I will know for sure is to experiment myself. This will take time to detemine. I do know there are others working on the same "problem" and we have been sharing data.


I have had my Cherry Reds for over three weeks now. Only one is what I would call red. The others are kind of spotted, and the males (I think) are as clear as can be. If I can help this with diet, am I doing something wrong?

I have a heavily planted tank. The plants are a mix of medium sized leaves, Guppy grass, and a small (golf ball) Java Moss. I assume that is enough surface area for algae. I supliment it one day with with 1/2 an Hikari Algae wafer for some extra vegie matter, and the other day with a home made dish of chopped up shrimp, spinage, oatmeal, garlic, wheat germ, and gelatin for some protien. they eat both, but don't really flock to it. other than the first time I added the home made stuff, when they were all over it, only one or two will come to either the food, or the algae discs. I also have an almond leaf in the tank, and they seem to like it. They often hide under its shadow.

There are only a few snails in the tank, so they don't get pressured. I am at a loss as to why there is so little coloring if it isn't genetics.


----------



## gnatster

*CRS Berried!!*

During this evening usual watch the shimp for a while I found a berried CRS. Hopefully on or about Sept 10 there will be CRS fry running about. Working on getting some decent pictures.


----------



## amber2461

fingers crossed then ...


----------



## Zongyi

I read somewhere around the net that shrimp larvae die becuase they continueously bang themselves against the glass when following the light, so the tank needs to be opaque (like a rubbermaid container) at the sides or wrapped in black paper. Do you have problems with this? I'm assumeing there shouldn't be any casualties with this since all your tanks are see though, but have you bred shrimps that have a swimming postlarvae stage yet? I would assume the problem be more elevated with swimming larvae than young shrimps that are mini adults at birth.


----------



## AaronT

Zongyi said:


> I read somewhere around the net that shrimp larvae die becuase they continueously bang themselves against the glass when following the light, so the tank needs to be opaque (like a rubbermaid container) at the sides or wrapped in black paper. Do you have problems with this? I'm assumeing there shouldn't be any casualties with this since all your tanks are see though, but have you bred shrimps that have a swimming postlarvae stage yet? I would assume the problem be more elevated with swimming larvae than young shrimps that are mini adults at birth.


I'm not sure where you read that. That's absolute bogus in my experience.


----------



## gnatster

I've never heard of that issue before and believe me I've read a lot of material in multiple languages on everything from commercial shrimp farming on a large scale for human consumption to breeding a few ornamental's for aquarium use. But If you can find that source I'll be happy to read that too and try to find if there is any merit in it.


----------



## Zongyi

Heres the link:
http://www.fishpondinfo.com/shrimp2.htm

It is under Ghost Shrimp in Ghost Shrimp Stories. Heres a quote:
"He believes that a major cause of young ghost shrimp death is their propensity to move towards light. When the room is lighter than the tank (at night usually), they jam themselves into the glass and die."


----------



## gnatster

Thanks for the link. 

My take is that the shrimp larvae are all at the glass and are not dispersed in the water column. The planktonic sized food they require are quickly cleared from the glass area, subsequently the larvae starve. So for that variety of shrimp have an opaque tank may be better suited to raising them past the crucial larval stage. 

Then again I could be wrong, I have no experience with Glass shrimp.


----------



## Zongyi

Ah well, I guess I'll go with the opaque containers for now and maybe try both out later on. Better to be safe than sorry they say  .


----------



## gnatster

Please keep in mind there are many shrimp that do not have the larval stage. Most of the Neocardina and Cardina sp. and var. do not have this stage and would not need such a container.


----------



## Zongyi

I realize that but I want to eventually move on to trying to breed shimps that require a brackish water phase. I'm going to try with ghost shrimp first as an attempt to breed swimming larvae, then move on the amanos. From what I read, these brackish larvae do swim. While I'm at it, I want to try shrimp that hatch as miniture adults, and it will allow me to use some of my see though tanks. I got everything exept enough of those containers (I only have a couple) and the shrimp  .


----------



## gnatster

No new pictures this week, been trying to catch one of the now 3 Crystal Red's with eggs to pose but alas, a finicky lot they are. 

The eggs on the CRS look to be a little bigger then the one carried by Cherry Reds, they are fewer too. Sexing the Crystals is a bit more difficult then the Cherry's the external signs are more subtle. Haven't taken a census yet either. 

Red Clawed Cray Female does not look to have eggs anymore. Don't see any fry running about either. There were some water quality issues however. A moss I had picked up at an aquatic landscaper wholesale grower during a GWAPA field trip did not do well submerged and pretty much self destructed. A minor setback but a learning experience too. 

Expecting two shipments this week. One new variety to me, and one to boost an existing colony. The week after is exciting too, my first shipment from Germany will be arriving. 

Finally registered a domain name. GnatShrimpFarm.com. Not up and running yet but I own the name and have found a host. Eventually it will host a picture's, sales and short care tips for the various inverts I'm working with. 

Thats all for this week, need to pack up some Cherry Reds to share with a neighbor.


----------



## gnatster

Happened by the tanks at a fortuitious time.

Lost a berried Crystal Red, not sure why. Another Crystal is enjoying a lunch of fresh eggs.










Then we have a female Cherry Red bursting with eggs.


----------



## aquatic-store.com

What are they eating?


----------



## gnatster

> What are they eating?


They are called Fruity Pumpkin Crisps and I purchased them on Aquabid.


----------



## aquatic-store.com

Inst that a post brand cereal


----------



## AaronT

aquatic-store.com said:


> Inst that a post brand cereal


It could be, but I sure hope the cereal doesn't have bits of crushed eggshells. Mmmm...mmm...good.


----------



## gnatster

Some new shrimp and some interesting observations this week.

I make it a point to spend some time every day just observing each and every tank and occasionally am rewarded by seeing some new activity. While observing the Crystal Red Shrimp I was fortunate enough to watch a female produce eggs. It's not a fast process and with my limited photography equipment I could not catch it. I tried but the results were poor. I was drawn by a female that was hovering just over the substrate bent in half with her pleopods franticly waving. The a brown egg (Crystals have brownish eggs) popped from her under her carapace and was guided under the abdomen by a pareiopod. The waving of the pleopods ceased, she drifted straightened back out and drifted back down. This would happen about every 10-15 minutes and I counted she is carrying 22 eggs. I was transfixed by the process and didn't realize 3 hours had passed.

New this week are Green Shrimp. This was worst packing I had ever seen for shipping livestock. Unfortunately only half survived. The shipper has been unresponsive to emails too. Thats one shipper to cross of my list.

Green Female










Green Male










The lfs also had a new batch of Bumblebee Shrimp. They had been in for 4 days when I saw them so I figured most of the die off would have happened already. Oh how wrong I am. I was allowed to choose and net the ones I wanted. I picked 10. Packed them all up properly with a bit of plant matter for them to hold onto. Went right home, 2 died in the bag, 4 more over the next 24 hours. I either have the absolute worst luck with these shrimp or they are exceedingly delicate.

Bumblebee










Expecting my first shipment from Germany this week, keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## Zongyi

How do you tell male and female apart without eggs? I've been trying to find out for quite a while with no success. 

Also, I find that my shrimps ignore Hikari Algea Pellets, Wardley Shrimp Pellets, and Wardley flakes and leave large areas of leftovers when I feed them it. Do you have simular problems or are my shrimps just little brats?


----------



## gnatster

Zongyi said:


> How do you tell male and female apart without eggs? I've been trying to find out for quite a while with no success.


It's not so easy, but with a practiced eye you get it. Female have a deeper carapace for one.



Zongyi said:


> Also, I find that my shrimps ignore Hikari Algea Pellets, Wardley Shrimp Pellets, and Wardley flakes and leave large areas of leftovers when I feed them it. Do you have simular problems or are my shrimps just little brats?


Theymust be spoiled with other food then, or you are feeding them to much and they are only picking what they want.


----------



## gnatster

*Baby Red Claw Macrobrachium assamense*

Baby Red Claw Macrobrachium assamense

Look close, really big eyes for the body size.


----------



## amber2461

It is really adowable, thanks for posting !


----------



## gnatster

Lots of news this week, some good, some bad.

Due to a heater malfunction all the Crystal Red's dropped their eggs as temps in their tank reached as high as 85F. None of the shrimp passed, but losing the eggs off three females is certainly a bit of a setback. However a new fresh molt was seen today and lone female has eggs back already.

The Neocaridina cf. zhangjiajiensis "White Pearl" arrived from German, and boy are their pleopods tired. They arrived fine after a 5 day journey, not a single DOA. Just goes to show that quality livestock and proper packaging is the key to successful shipping. They are obviously thrilled with their new home as I already have one female that is carrying eggs.










Set up another 4 2.5 gal tanks today too. I needed another tank for the Neocaridina denticulata "Taiwan Blue" that were generously given to me at Saturdays monthly GWAPA meeting. These are the wild type of the Cherry Reds. Once a colony has been established I'll cross them into my current lines of Cherry Reds adding some variety to the gene pool. I already had a few of these in another tank, but I mis-identified them.

Rack is almost full, only room for 2 more 5.5's










During todays water change I counted 13 of the baby Red Claw's, never get the same count twice, they sure are small and almost transparent. The female looks to be ovigerous again. I think I am going to have to move them to a larger home as they grow to be about 3-4". 1 Pair in a 5.5 is OK, but as these grow it certainly will be a tight squeeze. I have a 10 that can I can move them to and will mull that over until I am pressed to move them.

Thats all for now till next week unless updates are warrented.


----------



## Safado

Gnatster, We are all looking forward to an update. I hope the Hatchery is going well.


----------



## Zongyi

> Due to a heater malfunction all the Crystal Red's dropped their eggs as temps in their tank reached as high as 85F. None of the shrimp passed, but losing the eggs off three females is certainly a bit of a setback. However a new fresh molt was seen today and lone female has eggs back already.


Did you do anything special to put your heaters in your tank? I found that I lost quite a few rainbow shrimps from the heater due to the shimps resting on them. My heater was really hot even when submersed in water, and the shimps seem like they couldn't feel the heat. I would find them dead afterwords. Later on, I isolated my heaters with a nylon sock. I had to use a plastic water bottle to make sure the sock didn't touch the heater.


----------



## Acsuth

How is it going with the snowball shrimp? Any hatchlings from that first berry?

Amanda


----------



## gnatster

It's been a while, there was a good bit of time with no net access, very busy work and a move. All in all it's been right busy. Now have net access again, all moved in and doing less then 60 hrs a week. 

Hae not picked up any shrimp during this time but these ones here have been rather busy. The move cost a few Green's but otherwise all came thru fine. 

Blue Sapphire - Lots of babies, seem to be keeping the blue color nicely. 

Cherry Reds - Lots and lots of the running about, good color and nice vigor. 

Tiger - A few females have eggs, looking forward to seeing babies soon.

Red Claw - Another batch of babies just showed

Snowball - Breeding like rabbits, have a few different young sizes running about

Crystal Reds - More babies arrived. About to obtain more of a much better quality. 

Thats the news for now. I'll try and keep a regular posing going again now that things seemed to have settled down.


----------



## gnatster

Recieved 2 shipments in today, Bumblebee and S grade Crystal Reds.


----------



## Piscesgirl

They look very nice, Gnat!


----------



## turtlehead

You are a very rich man haha. Very nice coloring.


----------



## thatguy

can you post pics of the taiwan blue shrimps?

im curious to see what they look like. the taiwan shrimp are actually brown..from light to dark..id like to see what others call taiwan shrimp. if they are indeed blue or brown. if they are blue id say they arent taiwan shrimp...in taiwan the shrimp is so plentiful they sell them by the ounce....for feeders.


----------



## mossman

Hi Nathan,

I dont have much luck using sponge filter, seems that you are sucessful with it. How often and how much do you change the water? How often and how you maintance the filter?

Ken


----------



## Veneer

Any more images of your red-claws?


----------



## JerseyScape

As I type this I am preparing a breeding set up for my shrimp. I do have two questions for you if you don't mind...

What are the benefits of using substrate in a breeding only tank? I am going to set up mine with just a bare bottom so it will be easier to siphon all the crud and I will be able to see how much food is left over. Let me know the benefits that you have encountered.

Second question has to do with Seachem Equilibrium. I add it with every water change to my display tank but I thought that it was strictly for plant....do I have to add it to the shrimp ONLY tank if only Java Moss will be present? If so, would you happen to know how much for a 15 gallon?

Thanks
JerseyScape


----------



## amber2461

Congrats on your latest beauties Gnat, very nice indeed ... thanks for posting and sharing it with us ... and making us droolzzzzzzzzz

Cheers


----------



## iris600

Have you tried feeding your shrimp dehydrated seaweed found at oriental grocery stores? Not the Nori,which has been roasted, but the other one (I think It's called Tamago)? 
I was just curious because I always have some in my cupboards, but experimenting with my shrimp (whose population is rather low at the moment) has the potential to be costly. It's the type of seaweed that is rehydrated and used in Miso soup.


----------



## gnatster

> What are the benefits of using substrate in a breeding only tank? I am going to set up mine with just a bare bottom so it will be easier to siphon all the crud and I will be able to see how much food is left over. Let me know the benefits that you have encountered.


My thoughts are it provides a better surface for the shrimp to walk on. It also harbors benefical bacteria that shrimp graze on. The shrimp show better on it too. As to cleanup it's no big deal. Its only a very thin layer and I remove some now and again, rinse it very well and return it.



> Second question has to do with Seachem Equilibrium. I add it with every water change to my display tank but I thought that it was strictly for plant....do I have to add it to the shrimp ONLY tank if only Java Moss will be present? If so, would you happen to know how much for a 15 gallon?


This depends on your water source and what the perameters you want in the shrimp's tank.


----------



## gnatster

iris600 said:


> Have you tried feeding your shrimp dehydrated seaweed found at oriental grocery stores? Not the Nori,which has been roasted, but the other one (I think It's called Tamago)?
> I was just curious because I always have some in my cupboards, but experimenting with my shrimp (whose population is rather low at the moment) has the potential to be costly. It's the type of seaweed that is rehydrated and used in Miso soup.


No I have not. I am sure it is available in the area, just never searched it out. For me it is more cost and time effective to pick up the Two Little Fishies brand algaes at my LFS. A 4x4" sheet feeds all my stock for a few days and even the small packs from the LFS have enough to feed them all for weeks if it was the only food I had on hand.


----------



## iris600

The seaweed is called Wakame. The ingredient list is simple: Dried seaweed. I wonder if it would work?


----------



## Scrimp

Gnatster, where is it you buy all of your shrimp from? And are you selling any yet?


----------



## iris600

I thought I'd follow up. I put a couple adult Cherry red shrimp in another tank and tried the wakame. They liked it. I bought a huge bag (I use it for miso soup, etc) and it will last me forever. I just cut a little piece off and rehydrated it.


----------



## gnatster

Scrimp said:


> Gnatster, where is it you buy all of your shrimp from? And are you selling any yet?


I have been selling Cherries, Snowballs, and Blues here on APC. Still working on amasing a large enough population of the others.


----------



## gnatster

iris600 said:


> I thought I'd follow up. I put a couple adult CRS in another tank and tried the wakame. They liked it. I bought a huge bag (I use it for miso soup, etc) and it will last me forever. I just cut a little piece off and rehydrated it.


Thanks for the update. Next time I find myself near an Oriental Market I'll have to see if I can find some.


----------



## bpm2000

How are the red-claw macros doing? I am looking for information on them and wondering how small of a tank could house one or maybe a pair of these guys?


----------



## gnatster

bpm2000 said:


> How are the red-claw macros doing? I am looking for information on them and wondering how small of a tank could house one or maybe a pair of these guys?


They are doing well thanks. They live in a 5.5gal tank with a bit of anubias for cover. They have bred and there's a few 2 month old ones running around. More hiding space is needed and I've been keeping my eyes out for some small pieces of interesting wood.

Besides the normal fare these shrimp love snails, but only young tender ones. It's fascinating to drop a few snails in, watch the shrimp stalk them down, like how fast is a snail gonna run away. Then they pry open the operculum and scoop out the flesh.

I haven't placed them with any fish yet so I have no idea if they bother the fish at all, they also seem to be plant friendly. They also like to dig a little, making little depression in the sand under leaves to use as shelter.

All in all they are easy to breed, fun to watch and quite hardy little buggers. The do need more space then I have offered if you intend on sharing the offspring.


----------



## John N.

This was a fun thread to review and read. Any news or updates on anything here? Just wondering how the project/hatchery was coming along.

-John N.


----------



## turbomkt

Last I heard Nate has been neglecting this thread/project due to a move to Texas.


----------



## gnatster

> Last I heard Nate has been neglecting this thread/project due to a move to Texas.


Not only have i been "neglecting" the thread/project but my APC duties as well as I have been in TX since mid April and will be here for at least another month. I may also be relocating to TX so all this is on hold. I have a neighbor that feeds them a few times a week and very gracious GWAPA member comes out every 2 weeks or so to do water changes. I'd imagine most of the tanks with breeding colonies have pretty much filled themselves to the point were they can breed no more. I've seen after they populate a tank they stop breeding until there is more space.


----------



## Neon Shrimp

This really is a great thread. I like how you give the shrimp updates! Please post new pics when you have the time. Thanks!


----------



## Tiapan

this thread is incredable. cant wait for it to get back to full swing. i believe it has inspired me to re set up a whole bunch of my old 10's for some shrimp colonies, at least of a few varieties so as to fill my new project a big(well kinda) 60 planted, i would really really like to fill it with tiger and cherry shrimp, Crystals are way outa my price range.


----------



## gnatster

I'm very sorry to report that due to my absence bad things have happened. All was going rather well. a fellow GWAPA member was graciously coming out every 2 weeks to do water changes and a neighbor was feeding every few days. Then the weather turned hot. The AC unit was not on and it was reported that temps in the place soared. This condition caused quite a bit of die-off. I understand all of the high grade Crystal Reds, Snowballs, Blues and Bees have stepped on a rainbow. This is a rather unfortunate setback. Other types had some die-off but not as much. 

I continue to pursue opportunities in the Dallas area and intend on relocating. Once situated I will again start operations. There will be some changes as I have learned quite a bit. Watch for a better run operation once a move completed. As for now the incredibly gracious GWAPA member is still doing water changes and the neighbor has been instructed to feed only the tanks with shrimp less food. 

These issues are totally my own fault for being absent. I cannot fault the neighbor nor the gracious GWAPA member. In fact I thank them wholeheartily for their time and efforts.


----------



## Neon Shrimp

Sorry to hear the news about your tanks. My shrimp are also sensitive to temperature changes. I hope you will start another great setup again and please send us updates. Best wished to you!


----------



## jeff63851

Sorry to hear about the news. Do you know what's the temp. of the tank when the die-off started? Here in CA, it's around 82 F right now (we don't use AC). However, I found out that my shrimps are breeding like they never bred before due to the hot weather here. However, these are Cherry shrimps so I'm not sure if there not that sensitive to the water temp than your CRS and Snowballs Blues and Bees.


----------



## billionzz

What would you say the temp. limits are on the shrimp you lost?


----------



## gnatster

I was not there to see the carnage and my thermometer does not have a tell-tale so I do not know how high temps went, nor do I know at what temps the issue started.


----------

