# Anyone else have issues with apistodave ?



## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

It's been 27 days since I've placed my order with him, and it's still not completed. 

The short story:

Friends and I went in and bought some apistos from dave - to save on shipping. 
Order finally arrives, I'm short a pair, and I had some DOA's. I mentioned this to dave the day I got them in the mail. He said that if I paid shipping, I could get my pair and the DOA's replace. I didn't find this fair, as part of my order was missing. When I told him this, he tells me he'll take care of it. I asked him each week, if the fish were going to be shipped. The response I got 2 weeks ago was that he was out of town. The response last week (weds) was that I should be getting them (last week). When I mentioned that I didn't get them on saturday, I was told that they would ship out today and I was again asked to pay shipping for them. I forwarded the email he had sent me prior saying that he was 'taking care of it' and that I wasn't responsible for shipping. So, he told me to watch the mail for them all last week, only to find out that he didn't ship them at all. I waited for the mail each day, as the past week has been rather chilly here. 

By now, I'm a bit PO'd. I wrote a email with some attitude, and he wrote me back saying that him and I were done talking. Done talking? he owes me fish or a refund - and I told him that. I've gotten no response since then. 

Anyone else have issues with this character?


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

I feel your pain, man! But, at the risk of upsetting you more (which is not my intention, bud), you should probably keep these posts out of the Forum. I would PM one of our Admins here to let them know about the bad deal (I assume that this took place on the "For Sale or Trade" forum?), and ask them what you should or could do.

That would be much more effective than trying to publically "call him out," and potentially sour your reputation here.

I do agree with you, though!! You are owed, if that is how things went down!


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

I have only dealt with him at the ACA conventions, and both him and his wife (especially her  ) have always been nice there. 

That's too bad that you've had such an unfortunate experience with ordering though. I can't say that I blame you for being disappointed with the service you've described here.

Edit: Sheesh, I was thinking of Tony Orso, not Apisto Dave.... I've met Dave but never dealt with him.


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## Brilliant (Jun 25, 2006)

evercl92 said:


> Anyone else have issues with this character?


No. In fact Dave has been good to me. My fish were packed well and survived just fine. Sorry to hear about your troubles.


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## Jman17H (Nov 9, 2006)

I really have no experience with ApistoDave other than being a friend of evercl's and hearing how the whole deal went down.



Brilliant said:


> you should probably keep these posts out of the Forum.


Forums are the perfect place to inquire of places/people to buy fish from and they are also great places to tell success/horror stories. The only exceptions would be if an individual takes up a malicious false battle or starts advertising strictly for a business in every post.



DonaldmBoyer said:


> (I assume that this took place on the "For Sale or Trade" forum?)


To my understanding this was not on this forums "For Sale or Trade" section.



Brilliant said:


> My local guy goes through tough times...shipments canceled, deliveries not made orders not filled...its a domino effect.


It is one thing when a seller has some unforseen curcumstances which bring about the domino effect and another thing when lies are told and the customer is misled. When things happen, the truth is almost often accepted and solutions can be worked out! Lies will come back to hunt an individual and ruin reputations. 
My understanding is that evercl was told that theoriginal unshipped fish were shipped and he should expect them in the mail and then the next week told that in fact they had not been shipped?


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

Jman17H said:


> My understanding is that evercl was told that theoriginal unshipped fish were shipped and he should expect them in the mail and then the next week told that in fact they had not been shipped?


True. And that really ticks me off. I cut off some holiday plans on friday and saturday afternoons awaiting the potential arrival of the fish - because I didn't want them sitting in the cold.

True: this was not a "for sale or trade" forum transaction. It was strictly email.

Forums are the perfect place for instances like this. This is how people are informed about people/businesses that aren't practicing good business.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

I have no problem with posting this sort of thing here as long as the information presented remains factual and isn't just a place for some disgruntled person to vent their spleen. The best solution though is usually to try to maintain contact between the two parties until an satisfactory agreement can be reached. Lost/forgotten/misunderstood communication is usually to blame. Most often, I'd turn to "public shame" only as a last resort.

Probably both people involved are nice guys. Probably they would come to an agreement in about 15 seconds if they could actually talk over the phone or face-to-face. In text, these sort of things sometimes get blown out of proportion to reality and they start to take on a life of their own.

It's really too bad the seller decided to break off communication. Maybe he had a reason to, maybe not. Could a third party act as a go-between? I'm guessing that an offer to split shipping 50/50 would be acceptable to everyone, but only if both parties are still willing to listen. It is possible that the seller was no longer able to supply any of the fish you were looking for and took the easy way out. Schtuff does happen. Dispute resolution has driven more than one person out of e-business.

Good luck.


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

guaiac_boy said:


> I have no problem with posting this sort of thing here as long as the information presented remains factual and isn't just a place for some disgruntled person to vent their spleen. The best solution though is usually to try to maintain contact between the two parties until an satisfactory agreement can be reached. Lost/forgotten/misunderstood communication is usually to blame. Most often, I'd turn to "public shame" only as a last resort.


Absolutely. I'm not here simply to skew the picture to make him look bad. I'm here to share my experience. I am certain that communication is playing a part here. I would email him, and not get a response for a couple days. Then when I do get a response, it was typically a sentence fragment that left me with a *huh* look on my face.

I've been in contact with him for almost a month now, most of that trying to get this last part resolved.

I was told that extra female A. Cacatuoides Triple Reds were $14 each (and I wanted 2 extra). Odd, because a pair costs $16 - something about females were hard to come by right now. Fine. I asked if I should send paypal payment again, for $4 (to complete the 3rd and forth pair). He said "HAHAHAHAH Naw man since you are so Handsome and like I said I got extra males I'll just throw a couple in"

I'm not sure what to make of that.

I've started the Paypal dispute process. He said he shipped the "Two pairs and two fish is 3 pairs which is what it shows on the paypal payment-two pairs of A cacatuoides triple reds, with 2 extra females" and he's indicating in the dispute that I acknowledged receiving the 2 extra females. That is a lie - and that doesn't sit kindly with me. If I was sent 3 pair, then why was I charged $16 x2 (for pairs) and $14 x2 (for females)?

Now, in the dispute log, he's only referring to the invoice, and saying that the 2 males weren't on it, thus weren't ordered, and not paid for - and that everything has been shipped.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

David Soars has been a pioneering researcher and breeder of cichlids for years. I met him in California when he was a speaker at the PCCA in 98 or 99. When I moved to Oregon in 2000 we were in touch with each other back and forth for a long time, trading fish for plants and so forth. I even had his WEB site on my server for a short period of time. He lives on the other side of the mountains from me. I have heard some people call him a bit odd, but never any problems like what you are describing. He is a scientist. The ultimate fish geek.

I am not defending him against you. I have no idea what really happened, but in ten years I have never heard any one complain about him, ever.



> I wrote a email with some attitude, and he wrote me back saying that him and I were done talking.


I think you have answered your own question. He was probably put off by your quote "attitude". Right or wrong, thats the obvious reason


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## Jman17H (Nov 9, 2006)

After further review, the quote "you should probably keep these posts out of the Forum." should be atributed to *DonaldmBoyer* and not, I say not Brilliant!


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## Brilliant (Jun 25, 2006)

Robert Hudson said:


> David Soars has been a pioneering researcher and breeder of cichlids for years. I met him in California when he was a speaker at the PCCA in 98 or 99. When I moved to Oregon in 2000 we were in touch with each other back and forth for a long time, trading fish for plants and so forth. I even had his WEB site on my server for a short period of time. He lives on the other side of the mountains from me. I have heard some people call him a bit odd, but never any problems like what you are describing. He is a scientist. The ultimate fish geek.
> 
> I am not defending him against you. I have no idea what really happened, but in ten years I have never heard any one complain about him, ever.
> 
> I think you have answered your own question. He was probably put off by your quote "attitude". Right or wrong, thats the obvious reason


:amen:

After kindly asking the Jman to correct his post where he misquoted me I got a nasty response. Enough said...I think this needs to get locked before more mud is slinged.

If anyone wants pics of lovely cichlids from Dave please see my website.

Thank you.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Yeah, thread closed. This thread has reached its logical end.


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