# Intelligent Fish forcommunity 40 gallon tank?



## snuffy (Oct 19, 2007)

Hey guys!

I'm about to scape a community 40 gallon these coming 2 weeks. Pretty set on getting a school of embers (16-20) with some pygmy cories (16-20). Was curious if I could add 2-3 more fish that were for a lack of a better word, more intelligent?

Thanks!


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## ddavila06 (Jan 31, 2009)

lol, by intelligent you mean that they won't go from side to side and jump out if you spook them each and everytime you walk by??? do some dwarf cichlids! my new most favorite is the nanacara anomalia, i also like bolivian rams and apistos


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## asukawashere (Mar 11, 2009)

Yeah, dwarf cichlids would be a great choice. Rams are probably the easiest to find, but there are some pretty little apistos available from breeders and specialty shops if you look hard enough 

Another option might be a few dwarf gouramis.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Cichlids in general have a reputation for more intelligence than most fish. 
http://www.reachingtheanimalmind.com/chapter_04.html
and watch (and listen!) to the video 'Fainting Fish'. 
Karen was teaching an Oscar to swim through a hoop.


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## snuffy (Oct 19, 2007)

Wow after reading up on the bolivian ram, I'm really interested in getting a pair! Any good sources on getting a male and a female?


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## Gordonrichards (Apr 28, 2009)

Where are you from Snuffy? That might be of some help to people here in the forum. If you were in New York, Mass or Conn. I could point you in the right direction. 

-Gordon


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## snuffy (Oct 19, 2007)

Unfortunately, I'm in sunny southern California haha.

Yeah kinda fell in love with these rams now!


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## snuffy (Oct 19, 2007)

BTW would cherry shrimps be ok with bolivian rams if they're in a well planted tank?


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## Gordonrichards (Apr 28, 2009)

Nope. Shrimp=food to cichlids.


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## snuffy (Oct 19, 2007)

That saddens me... Any fish that has personality that's shrimp safe?


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## geeks_15 (Dec 9, 2006)

Dwarf cichlids are my favorites, especially apistos, but they will eat shrimp. If the tank is well planted, some shrimp will usually survive and you will see them occasionally. But if you want many visible shrimp then dwarf cichlids are probably out. The exception in my experience is the amano shrimp or bigger shrimp species which can live with all but the biggest dwarf cichlid.

Other ideas:

gouramis like: dwarf gourami, sparkling gourami, croaking gourami, honey gourami
All are intelligent and interesting. They tend to swim near the upper part of the tank.

One of my new favorites is the scarlet badis (dario dario). It has amazing color and acts like a cichlid. It stays small (less than an inch). It has a reputation for not accepting prepared foods. I feed mine live baby brine shrimp.

badis badis is also an interesting fish with nice blue coloration.

pea puffers (aka dwarf puffers) are also interesting. The coloration is green and brown, but you can't beat them for personality. There are stories on the internet of them being fin nippers and aggressive, but I've owned several and have never had a problem. They should work with ember tetras and dwarf cories as neither is very slow and neither has large showy fins. They would probably eat very small shrimp (as they are small themselves), but would likely ignore larger ones. Mine would never eat flake food, but did well on frozen bloodworms. They are freshwater puffers and do not require brackish water. I've read they don't do well in brackish water.


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## orisuechris (Aug 14, 2010)

snuffy said:


> BTW would cherry shrimps be ok with bolivian rams if they're in a well planted tank?


My shrimp just hide from my fish under the Driftwood W/ plants in it. I think if they are fully grown and the tank is heavily planted they should be fine.


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## bartoli (May 8, 2006)

Diana K said:


> Cichlids in general have a reputation for more intelligence than most fish.
> http://www.reachingtheanimalmind.com/chapter_04.html
> and watch (and listen!) to the video 'Fainting Fish'.
> Karen was teaching an Oscar to swim through a hoop.


Thanks for the link Diana. One thing may not be obvious from the video (but explained in Karen's book - I downloaded it after watching the video) is the experimentation aspect of intelligence.

After the cichlid in that video learned that swimming through the hoop would get food, he experimented with other ways of interacting with the hoop to see if they too would give him food. In Karen's words, "I know what works here, let's see what else might work?"

Another thing is the emotional aspect of fish. After the cichlid in that video thought that he knew of a sure way of interacting with the hoop to get food, he repeated those maneuvers, but didn't get food (because the trainer Karen was doing something else). After repeated failed attempts, he became very upset. Fish too can have strong feeling.


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## Emily6 (Feb 14, 2006)

I had 4 blue rams in a 40 gal. with cherry shrimp and didn't notice a problem- in fact, I culled the shrimp herd profitably before I broke down the tank. The woman at the LFS actually told me they might pick on the cardinal tetras I had and this never happened either. 

I'm considering them again for my 65 gal. set up (still with shrimp) and was told all the same things about pea puffers. I had one pea puffer in a community tank and he was great! The only glitch was the male beta in that tank would stalk him around... I think there's something about the puffer fish movement that offended him. Anyway, I took the beta out, problem solved.

Right now I just have 10 diamond tetras, two lazy pearl gouramis, 2 clown loaches and a chinese algae eater with god only knows how many cherry shrimp. I figure if the 3-5" loaches leave the shrimp alone, most other things are safe.

Bottom line, not convinced these are fish to be mistrusted.


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## snuffy (Oct 19, 2007)

I might try a pair of blue rams after I breed and sell off some of my crs =) 

I had a new idea for stock. Should I mix 10 Rasbora hengli and 10 Rasbora espei? OR just get 20 of the one of them? Which one would be the prettier shoaling fish?


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