# Can I save this tank?



## Strychnine (Jun 9, 2021)

While I'm not new to aquariums, I'm far from an expert and, I _am _new to planted tanks. This is my first go at it. I have a 40-gallon breeder with an inch of Miracle grow performance organics (in-ground) soil and a half-inch cap of black diamond blasting sand. I planted and filled the tank a little over a week ago. By day three I started noticing the bubble coming out of the soil when I poked were hydrogen sulfide. I figured if I could stay on top of the tank and poke it regularly it would sort itself out once the roots started growing.

I had to leave town over the weekend and didn’t get back until today. When I returned the tank was dark brown and the ammonia levels were at 10ppm. They were probably higher, but the test kit only goes so high. I know the brown coloring is from tannins in the water and, I expected the ammonia levels to be high. As I prepared to do the foreseen water change, I noticed there had been several eruptions from the substrate while I was gone. There is now a coating of soil over everything. This is worrying to me, but not so much as the gas building in the substrate. After poking the substrate to release what gasses hadn’t escaped and, in the process, knocked loose a couple of my amazon swords. The gas is definitely hydrogen sulfide and the roots of the few swords I knocked loose are blackened. I know this is a bad thing, and left alone, will lead to losing all the plants. I haven’t checked any of the other plants, so I don’t know if their affected or not. Do I need to scrap everything and start over to save the plants?

I would really prefer a method that doesn’t have me buying plants twice. Right now, only about 40%-50% of the tank is planted. The plan was to plant in stages since my budget wouldn’t allow me to do it all at once, patience isn't my strongest attribute. My original plan was to purchase some Dwarf Hairgrass or Dwarf Sagittaria this weekend and finish off the tank, but now I don’t know if I should wait or not.

Current plants:
Vallisneria asiatica
Ludwigia Rubin
Ludwigia super red
Cryptocorne Undulatus
Echinodorus Bleheri
Anubias Barteri
Java Fern

As a side note, I am seeing new growth on the ludwigia (both types) and the swords and crypts don't appear to be melting or dying at all.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

I'm no expert either, but everything I've read so far indicates that you are doing the right things. Keep poking. It's going to be up to your faster growing rooted plants (your ludwigia, for example) to get in there and help keep the soil aerated.


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## Strychnine (Jun 9, 2021)

Thanks for the reply. This whole process makes me incredibly nervous. In hindsight, the title is overly dramatic and not proportional to my question. I just found the blackened roots on those swords and panicked. For that I apologize.

While poking the substrate this morning the same thing happened, but in the light of day I noticed new root growth, so this was possibly an over-reaction.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Addressing a problem as soon as possible is always good. It sounds like you've now got a grip on the situation. Hopefully, plant growth will continue.

Water changes and poking are good. Lowering the water level temporarily will help with any necessary water changes. A photo of tank would help.


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## Strychnine (Jun 9, 2021)

Here is the Tank:








It's super cloudy right now, but I think this is more from my tap water than a tank issue. I think it has to do with the fact that the tap water in my area is basically liquid limestone. I had the same problem with a different tank, I solved it by mixing the tap water with RO water. I'm not sure if I should do that in this case. There's also a layer of dirt over everything because of the eruptions over the weekend. Any advice on cleaning that up would be great. The driftwood I'm planning on taking out and giving it and the attached plants a good rinse when I do the next water change. 

There are also a couple of places where the sand needs a thin coat to re-cover the soil in a few spots. This weekend I'll be getting some wisteria for the far right corner and Dwarf Hairgrass for the foreground. I'm having trouble finding floaters locally and, since I live in the desert, I'm hesitant to order online. I know most retailers insulate live products but there's only so much you can do against 110 degrees. I'm only a week in and I can already tell this experience is going to be a serious lesson in figuring out where the line between monitoring and micromanaging is.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Definitely do a 90% water change with a dusting. In looking at photo, I think you could easily reduce the water level by half temporarily. Just move the heater down or remove it if your house has temperature above 70F.

Cloudiness could be from both a one-time soil eruption, bacterial growth, chemical reactions in the water, or possibly aquatic worms (burrowers that come out at night). I would not blame it on the hardwater just yet. Poke the soil to release gas. If you still get eruptions, it may be aquatic worms, which fish added later will be happy to take care of. 

You've got some nice rooted plants there and hardwater, so this tank has great potential. All your hard setup work will pay off once the plants take off. I have a feeling that they will. Echinodorus in hardwater and with a soil-containing substrate? That is a hard-to-beat combination!

You've got such strong growers that I'm not sure you need any floating plants.


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## Strychnine (Jun 9, 2021)

Thank you. I really appreciate your reply. 

I did another big water change this morning and just filled the tank until everything was submerged, about 2/3. I did half first, but the exposed sword leaves started wilting, and I figured they were stressed enough. When I poked the substrate this afternoon, I noticed the sulfur smell wasn't as bad as the day before, though it's still present. I'm hoping that means I'm getting less hydrogen sulfide and more carbon dioxide. While the water was low I used a spray bottle to wash as much of the dirt off the leaves as I could.

Thanks again for the response.

Edited for spelling.


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## Strychnine (Jun 9, 2021)

So, apparently, my panic attack over this tank was completely unnecessary and it can be saved. Three days ago the ammonia dropped to under .25ppm, and the nitrites started spiking. Two days ago I did a big water change to try to bring them down to readable levels by doing a 75% water change and filling the tank completely. It worked, for a short time. The following morning the nitrite levels were off the chart again. Nitrates are slowly rising as well, but staying steadily between 20ppm and 40ppm regardless of water changes. I got the same results yesterday and this morning. So, my conclusion is the cycle is off and running as it should be. I'm amazed at the speed at which this is happening. When I set up my 29-gallon, It took me a solid month to get to this point.

More importantly, I'm seeing growth in almost everything. There's no apparent growth with the hairgrass, but that's not surprising (that was planted less than a week ago). The Vallisneria is just slowly melting away. The ludwigia ruben is showing explosive growth and some nice red coloring. The super red isn't growing as fast, but it's chugging right along. Even the crypts are showing new growth. I do still have some hydrogen sulfide in the soil, but it seems to be limited to areas where I have few if any plants. One spot is right at the front, and I can't figure out what I want to put there. The other spot is behind the driftwood. I'm planning on putting some stargrass back there in the next day or two. Yesterday, the copepods arrived in large enough numbers for me to catch them swimming around. Other than that I have a few colonies of what looks like slime mold on the substrate. The largest spots are around the driftwood, but there are some random spots around the tank. Unless it becomes a major problem, I'm just going to ride it out and see what happens. As soon as the Nitrites come down I'll be adding some snails and shrimp, I'm sure they'll enjoy the feast.

Full tank shot:







White Spots:








Edited for grammer


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

If things don't improve, I would consider removing the driftwood. That slime mold and water cloudiness is probably due to the continuous release of organic compounds by the driftwood. Despite assurances that a driftwood piece has been cured or soaked, misbehaving driftwood is a common problem, especially in tanks containing soil substrates.


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## Strychnine (Jun 9, 2021)

I really hope it clears up after introducing some shrimp and snails. If I have to pull it out, I'll have a giant bald spot there, as there's little to no soil under there. I suppose I could just put some more stem plants there.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I would replace the driftwood with a small attractive rock and some plants. Or just plants. You have enough soil/gravel in the tank that the plants will do well if you just shift the substrate around a little. Do it gently before a water change to control cloudiness. Any cloudiness will go away faster than what you've got going on now.

The cloudy water suggests bacterial growth in the water. The bacteria are feeding on DOC (dissolved organic carbon) released by both the soil and the driftwood. All that bacterial growth deprives water of oxygen. It's sort of okay now, but when you add animals to the tank that need oxygen, they'll have trouble for sure.

*Folks, if you want to follow my method, please use rocks or ceramic castles--not natural driftwood.* Rocks and ceramic are inert. They don't leach junk (e.g., DOC) into the water. Driftwood may work sometimes, but from all the postings here and what I've seen over the years, they cause lots of problems. For every lucky, experienced aquascaper with relatively inert driftwood, there are 10 beginners with driftwood problems. 

When I first set up my planted tanks (~1990), I used a minimalist approach and a focus on plants. Thus, I never put driftwood in any tanks. Sheer luck!


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

There are some great looking faux driftwoods on the market. They're aquascape quality.


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## Strychnine (Jun 9, 2021)

The cloudiness is something I’ve wondered about since I set up my 29-gallon aquarium. This whole process started with my daughter and I killing a betta by being an “average” fish keeper. To make a long story short, our cleaning method kept that poor fish’s 1-gallon tank in a constant state of cycling. This led me down a rabbit hole of research and we replaced my daughter’s betta and placed in in a well-cycled 5-gallon tank. Once that tank was up and running smoothly, I decided I wanted a display tank in an alcove above my fireplace. Enter the 29-gallon.

I set it up with an UGF let it cycle with nothing in the tank. I used a UGF because most of what I read online told me they were the pure evil. I wanted to know if this was true. I kept a testing log while it cycled (which I still keep up to date). When I poured water in it, the water was cloudy. Straight from the tap. Here is a picture of what it looked like 34 days into the cycle (the whole cycle took 42):








Once the cycle was complete, I added some slate and some plants. And the water was still cloudy. Everything I read said it should go away after a few days. It had been there from the beginning and never went away. So, I switched to water collected from the local water bottle refill kiosk A month after that picture was taken (2 weeks after doing water changes with RODI water) the tank still had some cloudiness to it:








Finally, after 2 months of dealing with cloudy water, I broke down and bought a hob filter and added some filter floss to try and “polish” the water. The next day the water was crystal clear. I removed the hob to see if it the cloudiness returned, it didn’t, even after a water change using tap water. The water in that tank has been crystal clear ever since.

When I decided to set up the 40-gallon, I got the same cloudy water as with the 29-gallon. Knowing softened water was less optimal with a NPT and armed with just enough knowledge to be dangerous, I did some research on my area’s water quality. I live in Las Vegas. According to our 2021 water quality report we have a total hardness of 269ppm/16gpg and a TDS of 546ppm. Both of those numbers seem high to me. My plan was to get everything up and running, move the livestock from the 29 to the 40, and use the hop to polish the water as necessary. I don’t want to put it on permanently because there really is no room for it. I chose the 40-gallon breeder because it fits nicely in the spot I wanted the tank in.








I’m _not _trying to make a case for keeping the driftwood. It doesn’t matter to me one way or the other. I like the aesthetic, but as mistergreen said, there are plenty of ceramic options that look just as nice. I’m more interested in setting up a working, thriving ecosystem. What I _am _trying to do is use this community as a resource to figure out if my cloudy water is indeed bacterial as Ms. Walstad suggested or if I just live in an area with super-hard water that's just super-hard to clear up. In recently talking with the folks at my lfs, I was told they had the same issue after moving when they first filled the tanks. I wasn’t joking when I said our water is basically liquid limestone. Without a water softener, it takes about a month for lime and calcium to build up to a noticeable level on the water fixtures and it is hell on glass.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Quite a puzzle and you've opened up an interesting subject. I think you have two sources of water cloudiness. Initial cloudiness due to just adding tapwater to the tank. The key words here from what you've been told are the cloudiness appeared "when first filled the tanks." When you first fill a tank with tapwater, chemicals in the water react, possibly due to the sudden presence of oxygen and the precipitation of oxides (e.g., iron oxide). These precipitates should settle out within a day or two. It's very interesting that the HOB cleared this up in your 29 gal. The HOB would increase oxygenation inviting all kinds of changes--enhanced bacterial activity, enhanced precipitation of oxides on the filter medium, etc. My guess is that water movement and the associated oxygenation enhances the precipitation of CaCO3 on surfaces, particularly wherever there is an air-water interface (e.g., in an HOB filter). 

Second source of water cloudiness. Initially, you wrote about slime mold growing on the substrate surface. I believe this cloudiness could be due to excess nutrients coming from the driftwood and the soil. 

I would not blame cloudiness that lasts more than two days on hardwater. There are plenty of examples of hardwater lakes and watering holes that are crystal clear filled with lush aquatic plant growth.

Why not remove the driftwood and add the HOB temporarily? 

I'm not sure about all this, so it's up to you. It sounds like you have a very good grip on what's going on. I'd love to see you resolve this issue.

Thanks for a stimulating post!


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

I've lived in two different New York City counties, Queens and Brooklyn, each with completely different water hardness quality. As a boy growing up in Queens I remember my mom complaining how difficult it was to make suds with our new water supply. And, I still have old tanks from that era that will never rid themselves of the hard water stains left from the evaporated contents. But, without really knowing why, I could grow aquatic plants like crazy: Vals, sag, cobomba grew like weeds and with nothing more than gravel substrate. I don't recall cloudy water being a big problem.


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## Strychnine (Jun 9, 2021)

@dwalstad: 

I don’t know if adding the hob filter actually solved the problem or if it was coincidental. After all, correlation is not causation. But based on previous experience I’m not too worried about the cloudiness. The water seems to clear with each water change, which leads me to believe the problem is most likely bacterial as you suggested. My big worry is the slime mold appearing on the sand. If it gets out of control, I will have to nuke the tank, at which point water clarity will be low on the priority list.

I did close to 5 hours of research and reading yesterday and found that there is a plethora of information on terrestrial white slime mold, but white slime mold in aquaria is rare. Also, when it does happen, no one knows what to do about it. Based on the information I gathered yesterday, it is harmless to aquatic fauna, and the biggest danger to the flora is it blocks light. From what I understand, it feeds on bacteria and decaying plant matter. My fear here is that the mold will start eating the beneficial bacteria in the tank (though I honestly don’t know if that’s the type of bacteria they eat).

I see this as an opportunity to observe it and see if I can find some solution to a problem, even if it only comes up rarely. One issue I see is, even if I find a solution, I won’t be able to replicate the results without more mold. So, solving the problem means eradicating any methods I have for verifying the method works. If shrimp and snails do eat it, I may try to save a sample and grow it in a jar.

My first course of action is to see if anything eats it. I’m hesitant to add any of my existing fish or invertebrates to the tank that is clearly in the middle of cycling. Today I went and bought 6 ghost shrimp (3 of which are pregnant) from petco. My lfs also had some “pest” snails that I took off their hands. My hope is that, if they survive the current nitrite spike, one of the two will find it a tasty snack. During the water change today I tried to suck some of it up with the vacuum, but I was getting too much dirt and it just clung to the sand. If this doesn’t work, once the tank is cycled, I may try some oto’s or a pleco. If neither of them will eat it, then I’ll try chemical methods. But from what I understand, terrestrial white slime mold is resistant to chemicals and anything I use to kill it will likely kill my plants.


@johnwesley0: 
I grew up in Phoenix, AZ. They have super hard water down there as well. I never had this problem when I was a kid keeping tanks. I remember just filling them up and topping them off. My dad, who still lives in Phoenix, has had several tanks over the years and his tanks were all clear. I’m half wondering if there are some bacteria in our tap water here or, perhaps, living in my water pipes. My daughter’s betta lives in a five-gallon tank that never had a cloudy water problem past the first day, but that tank was filled with RO water. Even when I do water changes, I use RO water in that tank. So, I can definitely say it is the water straight from the tap that’s the issue.

Once I get the current occupants of the 29-gallon moved over, I may clean the old tank and run some experiments. Once is an outlier, twice is a coincidence, thrice is a pattern.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I wouldn't worry about the slime mold. Once you get the DOC under control and the plants growing, it should retreat or eventually fade. The goal is to slowly starve it. 

And it will not hurt the tank ecosystem by eating beneficial bacteria. 

I have never heard of animals (snails, fish, shrimp, etc) eating slime mold, but I could be wrong. No experience with it. As for chemicals, you're correct to be leery of going that route. Killing it with chemicals could cause serious problems.


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## ronnie (Feb 26, 2021)

My slim mold disappeared as the tank started settling in and plants growing.

I too am growing Vallisneria asiatica in my tank. For me it took a while to really get going (over a month, but definitely started sending runners closer to 2 months). But it may be different for you. Wanted to offer my recent experience with it. 

Is that dwarf hair grass in the foreground? I have great luck with DHG in my El Natural tanks, but they definitely need bright light. My light bar is probably 12 inches from the hair grass and it is spreading like crazy. In your set up the light seems fairly high up and you may not get as much growth for the grass.— just some food for thought.

I’ve attached a recent pic of the root system spreading for my DHG. It’s pretty cool to see how the runners are deep in the substrate.
(The roots you see aren’t the dwarf sag, but the DHW. I’m sure of this only because I cut out the sag from this area and it was much different).


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## Strychnine (Jun 9, 2021)

@dwalstad
I'm glad to hear it's not going to crash my cycle by devouring the bacteria in my tank. I really don't know what else I can do except wait and see what happens.

I took the hob off my 29-gallon and placed it on the 40 with some filter floss. I'll give it a day and see what happens. Worst case scenario, the BB in it seed my new tank and it cycles a bit faster. After my comment to johnwesly0, I think I am going to use the 29 for a few experiments on my water. I set up a 1-gallon pickle jar with some topsoil, gravel and, trimmings as a test and the water cleared after about an hour. I didn't even rinse the gravel I covered it with and there is 0 water movement. The only thing I can think of is that maybe it has to do with the volume of water or perhaps it's the movement. I'm going to try cycling the 29 with a bare bottom and see if I run into the same problems.

@ronnie
I'm glad to hear the slime mold went away on its own. Honestly, your comment is the most information I've been able to find about it in an aquarium. I'm still going to watch it, after everything I've learned about it, it's an interesting creature.

Yes that is DHG. I've been waffling over the idea of lowering the lights a bit. Right now the light bar sits about 24 inches from the substrate. I've thought about lowering it, I don't want to set it on the tank since I'm going with an open-top, but I could probably squeeze another 3 to 4 inches out of it.


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## ronnie (Feb 26, 2021)

I have an LED bar, and it’s something like 2” away from the water. I keep an open top too. There is a covering over the lights that faces the water. (I’ve attached a recent image of mine. I’m not saying you have to copy, but it is what has worked for me). 

Any early mold or algae issues really resolved naturally when the plants began growing and spreading.

Not to get into a driftwood debate, but what kind is it? It seems “fuzzy” looking (instead of just raw wood). I’m not sure what it is, but that is probably feeding the mold.
I have spider wood in my tank (without issues), but it’s never had the appearance of yours. Did you scrub it and clean it beforehand?


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## ronnie (Feb 26, 2021)

Oh and one more note. Your tank is very new. Some take a while to establish and balance.

In my 12g, it started looking great, then out of no where it seemed to regress in terms of water quality. I did a water change, added a few more plants, and then week or so after that is stabilized and has been great ever since.

I have a long thread going about my tank. On the first page of the thread you’ll see notes about ammonia and nitrates/trites fluctuating and recovering.

Ronnie 12g journey


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## Strychnine (Jun 9, 2021)

I'm actually not sure what kind of wood it is. But before I put it in my tank, it was pressure washed, boiled and, soaked in dechlorinated water for a month. It sat in my 29-gallon for a few months before I decided to upsize everything.

The "fuzzy" stuff is soil covered biofilm. I thought the snails and shrimp in my other tank had eaten it all.. when I filled the new tank,, the biofilm grew back on the base. It looked normal before I had to leave town the weekend before last. I wasn't around to poke at the soil and had a few gaseous eruptions. Now there's dirt everywhere. I absolutely panicked and started this discussion. 

I have a trip scheduled for the weekend of the 4th, so I'm waiting until I get back to re-cap the exposed areas. Next time I try this, I might choose a different soil. This stuff is explosive, but the plants seem to love it.


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## Strychnine (Jun 9, 2021)

So here a question regarding the cloudiness of my tank. I added the hob filter last night and let it run. When I looked at the tank this morning, the water was clearer, but not crystal clear. As an aside, this tells me adding the hob to the 29g and having it clear the next day was most likely coincidental. Anyway, I poked at the substrate and, as the bubbles released, the water clouded right back up to where it was before I put the filter on. 

So, my question is; could the previous gaseous eruptions that caused the soil to break the cap be the cause of, or at a minimum a contributing factor of, the cloudy water?

Every time a bubble breaks the surface of the soil, it kicks up a little dirt into the water column. This is evident in the filter floss' constant brown coloring. there are areas of the tank where you can't even see the sand anymore. I'm going to keep the hob on through the rest of the day and night. I'm going to remove it and the driftwood with my water change tomorrow morning to see if the driftwood is the culprit. it will also give me a chance to get some of the dirt off that wood.

I've been experimenting with various containers and the cloudiness disappears within an hour of filling them up. However, there is no water movement in them, so I'm half wondering if my powerhead is exacerbating the issue. Perhaps turning off the powerhead and heater for a day or two will help. I'm at a loss here and almost thinking it might be easier to pull the plants, drain the tank, dry out the soil a bit, salvage as much sand as I can and, start over.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Strychnine said:


> So here a question regarding the cloudiness of my tank. I added the hob filter last night and let it run. When I looked at the tank this morning, the water was clearer, but not crystal clear. As an aside, this tells me adding the hob to the 29g and having it clear the next day was most likely coincidental. Anyway, I poked at the substrate and, as the bubbles released, the water clouded right back up to where it was before I put the filter on.
> 
> So, my question is; could the previous gaseous eruptions that caused the soil to break the cap be the cause of, or at a minimum a contributing factor of, the cloudy water?
> 
> ...


Take a deep breath. Your words: "the plants seem to love it." I think we have this concept in our minds that once you cap the soil with gravel that it acts like a hermetic seal. It doesn't. Dirt is gonna act dirty. Welcome to the world of dirt (never thought I'd find myself saying that to someone!)


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## Strychnine (Jun 9, 2021)

I get that. I'm mostly voicing some frustration. I do appreciate your words of encouragement.


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## ronnie (Feb 26, 2021)

I get the frustration. Maybe the power head is causing some of it? Just experiment and let the tank keep going for a while. Also when in doubt, add another plant or two, haha! Resorting to that helped with some of my issues.

And yes, if the plants are loving it, they’ll get the job done once they are settled and growing. I too had that moment where I wondered if I had to break my tank down. Keep fighting the good fight. Floaters may help with excess initial nutrient uptake.


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## Strychnine (Jun 9, 2021)

I turned the heater and powerhead off yesterday to see if a lack of current would help clear the cloudiness. The two major observations I made this morning were – the cloudiness was worse, there was a small ammonia spike and, the white mold on the substrate grew overnight to cover about 80% of the substrate. But, on the upside, my copepod population exploded.

When I looked at the white stuff on the substrate, it looked familiar (I didn’t take any pictures, though I probably should have). I have seen this type of fungus on the soil of my houseplants in the past. A little research brought the term Saprophytic Fungus. The pictures of this mold growing on potting soil is similar to what I have on my substrate. Primarily in the areas where the soil has broken through the sand cap.

My first response to this was to turn the heater and powerhead back on. The white stuff disappeared in the span of about 30-45 minutes. If I adjust the powerhead, I can see where the dead spots (no current) in my aquarium are. What research I’ve done says, terrestrially at least, this is a relatively benign fungus and is a sign of overwatering. Reducing the amount of water you give the plant will cause this fungus to retreat deeper into the soil where it happily continues eating organic matter.

When I searched “Saprophytic Fungus in my aquarium,” I learned my fish are going to die and my water is nasty and I’m a horrible person for allowing these conditions to exist in the first place. All jokes aside, I’m really starting to hate searching for answers to problems on the interwebs, it’s too much like looking your symptoms up on webmd.

I don’t know if this is what I have but some other opinions would be nice. Is this something I need to worry about? If this is Saprophytic Fungus, the solution is to stop watering your plants so much, but since I can’t decrease the amount of water in my artificial, indoor, micro-pond I’m at a loss.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Strychnine said:


> I turned the heater and powerhead off yesterday to see if a lack of current would help clear the cloudiness. The two major observations I made this morning were – the cloudiness was worse, there was a small ammonia spike and, the white mold on the substrate grew overnight to cover about 80% of the substrate. But, on the upside, my copepod population exploded.
> 
> When I looked at the white stuff on the substrate, it looked familiar (I didn’t take any pictures, though I probably should have). I have seen this type of fungus on the soil of my houseplants in the past. A little research brought the term Saprophytic Fungus. The pictures of this mold growing on potting soil is similar to what I have on my substrate. Primarily in the areas where the soil has broken through the sand cap.
> 
> ...


The powerhead effect suggests that this is something that is in the water column that settles down onto the gravel once the current is turned off. My best guess is this is the same precipitate we have been talking about as "cloudiness", but in its more collective form.


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## Strychnine (Jun 9, 2021)

That's what I'm thinking as well. Mechanical filtration doesn't seem to make it any better. Dwalstad has suggested the driftwood might be the issue, i've been hesitant to remove it. Primarily because I like the aesthetic. But, it's hollowed out and the Amano's and Cories loved hiding in it. I honestly don't believe that the driftwood is the issue, It sat in the 29-gallon for a couple of months, it didn't affect that tank at all. Tomorrow I'm going to pull it out for a couple of days and see what happens.


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## Cawafuoshi (Mar 24, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> I would replace the driftwood with a small attractive rock and some plants. Or just plants. You have enough soil/gravel in the tank that the plants will do well if you just shift the substrate around a little. Do it gently before a water change to control cloudiness. Any cloudiness will go away faster than what you've got going on now.
> 
> The cloudy water suggests bacterial growth in the water. The bacteria are feeding on DOC (dissolved organic carbon) released by both the soil and the driftwood. All that bacterial growth deprives water of oxygen. It's sort of okay now, but when you add animals to the tank that need oxygen, they'll have trouble for sure.
> 
> ...



Interesting happenstances. I happened to set up my second bookshelf tank, a 10 gallon. And this time around I did add a nice piece of driftwood to the scape. And it had to be now that I would be made aware of these issues. Well, lets see and wait if I get lucky.


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## ronnie (Feb 26, 2021)

Any update? And could we see your tank again? Hopefully showing the plants.

I'm curious and interested in your progress.

Also, have you considered floating plants? I have this feeling they could be part of the missing link.


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## Strychnine (Jun 9, 2021)

I was going to give it another couple of days before I actually updated the progress, but now works as well. I haven't added any floaters as of yet, mainly because I'm having trouble finding them locally and with the heat wave, I'm leary of having anything shipped. The temperatures here were in the 115*F - 118*F range, it's cooled down a bit, but the summer has just started. If I can't find anything locally, I might order some in September. I did lower the light from about 9.5 inches from the water line to about 4 inches above the water line and both strains of ludwigia thanked me with some bright red-ish foliage. Some of the hairgrass is melting, but there are already some bright green strands popping up to replace them. I ended up moving one of the Crypts to the front left side of the tank, so far, it doesn't look any worse for the movement.

The tank is still cloudy, though not as bad, it actually cleared a bit when I did a water change today. I did remove the driftwood for 2 days and saw no difference in cloudiness. When I put it back is when I moved the crypt. Before I put it back I had to do a massive water change. My nitrItes had spiked so high, two 50% water changes still showed it being over 5ppm. I took out probably 90-95% of the water and moved the crypt and some of the Vallisneria. The crypt I moved because I had a bald spot and couldn't figure out what else to put there. The Val I moved because I wanted to make room for some wisteria. After replacing the driftwood I did a slight recap of the sand to cover some of the dirt. I'm still getting a lot of bubbles, but they seem to be escaping by themselves without any major eruptions. I still poke the soil, but I've reduced it to once a day (usually in the morning).

The day after returning the driftwood to the tank, Tuesday I think, I added a dose of flocculant (to be certain my cloudiness is bacterial) and returned the hob filter packed with some floss. It didn't touch the cloudiness. With the Nitrites as high as they are, I decided I'm just going to wait it out. If it doesn't clear up within a week of the completed cycle, I'll start to worry. As I said before, I went through the same thing with my 29-gallon when I set it up.

The bladder snails and ghost shrimp don't seem to mind the nitrites, their crawling/swimming their little hearts out and enjoying the buffet I have set them upon. This morning the Nitrites were at about 1ppm, so I think I may be close to the end. I'm still showing trace amounts of ammonia, but with as hot as this soil is, I'm actually surprised it's not higher. Once the nitrites reach 0, I'm planning on moving the Amano's, mystery snail and, nerite snail from the 29g to the new tank. I was hoping to have that done by this coming Wednesday since I'm going out of town. However, if it doesn't happen by Sunday, I'll wait until I get back.

Here are some pics. The first is day 15, the second is day 24(today). It's amazing how much growth I've gotten in 9 days.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Looks like the tank is progressing!


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## Strychnine (Jun 9, 2021)

So I figured I would give another update after leaving the tank unattended for 4 days.

Before I left, I trimmed a few of the ludwigia stems and replanted the tops. When I returned from my trip on the fourth, I found all the livestock, more or less, alive and well. I say more or less because I seem to be down 3 ghost shrimp, or they are only making an appearance 2 at a time. The Amano's have taken over the driftwood and are doing their level best to clear it of the little algae growing on it. The harlequins have all started coloring up and the two cory's I have, were sifting through the sand looking for easy meals. I did a test and at some point, the tank finished cycling. The only thing I'm concerned about is my mystery snail has become nocturnal since the move. I occasionally see her (could be a him, but the entire family refers to it as her/she) in the mornings, so I know she's still alive. The bladder snails have quadrupled in size and are far more efficient at removing diatoms and algae than the mystery snail and Amano's combined. The growth in the stem plants has slowed a bit, as in I don't notice a ton of growth day by day, but I can tell they're still growing. The swords are still chugging away, slowly but surely and there are two new leaves unfurling on my anubias and java ferns. Though, in the fern's you have to get close to see it. The hairgrass started melting about a week ago, but while I was gone, stopped and a few of the tufts have started to send out runners. In addition to all that, I'm showing 0 ammonia, 0 Nitrites and, only 5ppm Nitrates.

There's very little algae in the tank, primarily I see it on the driftwood and glass. However, diatoms are starting to take over my tank. I think there may have been an eruption or two while I was gone since there's a fine layer of soil over many of the plants. But it's hard to tell where the diatoms end and the soil layer begins. I also found several bunches of bladder snail eggs on the glass and on a few of the sword leaves. I decided to leave them and hope they take care of some of the diatoms.

On the fifth, I did a 50% water change and added two pearl gourami and a false julii cory. I'm trying to bring the school back up to 6, but the lfs only had one, I'm going to check back with them on Friday to see if they get more in. After that, I don't plan on stocking the tank any further.

Today almost every single batch of snail eggs hatched. There were baby snails everywhere on the right side of the tank, quite literally. I use the past tense because the gourami's found them on the glass and had themselves a seriously big meal. I'm fairly certain they didn't get them all, but I'm also fairly certain the survivors ran for their lives. Only to run into the gauntlet that is the cory's. All three cory's are patrolling the sand in that area of the tank almost exclusively. I'm sure a few will survive, but it's good to know there is some predation happening. Based on what I'm seeing in such a short amount of time, I can see how these little beasties can quickly become an issue. I've decided to wait until the tank has matured to take any drastic measures in controlling them. 

The cloudiness in the tank is persistent but seems to clear a little with every water change. When I go to the lfs, I'm going to pick up an actual sponge filter to replace the makeshift one I have on the powerhead now. I'm hoping that makes a little difference, but based on how this evolved in the 29-gallon, I don't think it will make a lot of difference. If it doesn't clear it, I may go ahead and do weekly water changes until the water completely clears, even though they may be, otherwise, unnecessary. 

Here's a picture of the tank now:


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## PlantFan (Jun 19, 2021)

You're having quite a capped soil aquarium adventure. I've enjoyed reading this. You have an engaging manner of writing.


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## Strychnine (Jun 9, 2021)

Thank you. This whole experience has been a roller coaster ride.


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## Strychnine (Jun 9, 2021)

First and foremost, I really want to thank everyone who helped me with this tank. Going in I had done a ton of research before starting and thought I was prepared for anything. If not for the fine folks here, I probably would have scrapped the tank and started over again thinking I did something horribly wrong. I'm glad this community is here and I just want you all to know you're appreciated. Now, on to the update.

Friday was day 60. Here is a picture of what I've got going on:








As a side note, I took this picture after the lights went out. I turned them on long enough to get this picture with no glare on the glass. I find it interesting that the Ludwigia Ruben folds its leaves up at night. I've seen this with terrestrial plants, I have several Mexican bird of paradise trees in my yard that do this. I didn't know aquatic plants did it as well. 

Not much has happened other than a ton of growth, not that I'm complaining. The water has cleared almost completely. There is still a little haze to it, but every day it gets a little better. The 29 gallon tank I had before this one took 90 days to completely clear up. I'm expecting the same with this tank, though it looks like it might happen sooner in this tank. I still keep track of ammonia, nitrites and, nitrates. Today was actually the first day I showed no ammonia at all. Usually, there is a slight green tint to the test showing traces of ammonia but not enough to concern me. I think the soil finally stopped leaching ammonia, or the plants are big enough to handle the entire load. After the nitrites went to 0, the nitrate spiked to 20ppm then steadily dropped to 5ppm. Despite my heavy-handed feeding methods, it has held steady at 5ppm for the last 30 days. 

The Vallisneria still won't grow, it's not dying but, it's not thriving like everything else. To give some context, the crypts have all doubled in size. The val looks the same as the day I planted it. that big black blank space in the right side is supposed to be filled with val. Supposed'ta. Soon there will be some Ruben and Wisteria back there. the Ruben is growing so fast I'm running out of places to replant it and I'm going to have to start throwing cuttings away. This is the second tank I've tried to grow val in, the first was just gravel and root tabs. I'm planning a 20 gallon for my daughter's betta, so I may pull the val and try it in that tank. The last tank I tried to grow val in contained only the val and some ludwigia. The ludwigia did well, the val died. So I'm wondering; will the two will grow well together or, do I just have bad luck with val? I'll find out in a month or two, the new tank is only going to have swords, val and, hairgrass. There is some staghorn algae growing on the sword leaves. It hasn't become a major issue and I've mostly left it alone because the bladder snails seem to like it and keep it somewhat in check. 

Speaking of bladder snails, I started with 5. I am now the owner of about 5 billion bladder snails. I'm going to give them another month or two, then introduce some assassins to keep them in check. Also, the ghost shrimp I threw in have reproduced. I thought all but one had died because I rarely saw them around. there were two berried shrimp in the batch I threw in, but I didn't think the larva would survive the insanely high nitrite levels I experienced. However, this morning I counted 7 juveniles. The rest of the livestock appears healthy and happy. The only issue I'm having there is finding more False Julii Corydoras. Right now the tank has 3, I want to fill the school out with 4 or 5 more. The problem is that for the last month no one has any and it's too hot where I live for me to feel safe ordering anything that breathes through the mail. I've also noticed my mystery snail has become nocturnal lately. She's getting old, over a year, so I don't expect her to live too much longer.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Picture shows the kind of result that keeps me coming back. Your tank is beautiful! Thanks for posting.


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