# Enough light?



## Fishguy10 (Aug 6, 2011)

I'm new to plants, but I'm setting up a 29 gallon planted tank. I've been unable to keep plants in my previous tank because it has really really low lighting that even java fern can barely survive in. So I decided to go with a high light setup so that I could keep a wider variety of plants. So for my new 29 gallon tank I got a 96watt T5 wavepoint fixture with 4 wavepoint 6500k bulbs. I plan on having a foreground of HC, and some red plants such as Ludwigia glandulosa in the back. Do you think that I will be able to successfully grow these plants? Any input would be great


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## JustLikeAPill (Oct 9, 2006)

You can grow whatever you want with that light!


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## Coursair (Apr 18, 2011)

You will need CO2 & ferts with that light AFAIK. Then plants will thrive.


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## Fishguy10 (Aug 6, 2011)

Good to know that I've got enough light 

CO2 though...I've considered it before, but I'm looking into it again. I've been told that a two stage regulator will prevent end of tank dumping, which would be great. They just seem to be really expensive. Any ideas or suggestions on which kinds to look at or good places to find em?


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## Z400 (Mar 24, 2010)

Ebay for a dual stage setup. 

if you want a simple, complete, cheap and ready to go single stage set up, buy an Aquatek system from ebay. Right around $67 shipped. 

You will get a dual gauge regulator, solenoid and needle valve. 

Ive had 6 of these little cheap systems up and running for a few years each now and have never had a single issue with any of them. 

The needle valves are cheap and are real easy to replace with something of better quality. 



As far as dual stage regulators go, there are a few builders here on the forum, throw up a WTB ad in the for sale section. Expect to pay $230+ for a dual stage set up that is complete from the CGA 320 fitting to the needle valve. 

You can build your own system by buying all the parts you need and assembling it on your own, quite a bit cheaper. 

A dual stage regulator can be had for $40-$80 on ebay, you can pick up a solenoid from a seller here on the forums or on ebay from $30-$60 and you can pick up a decent swagelock or Fabco needle valve for $30-$40.

Various fittings that you will need can be had at Home Depot or Lowes.


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## Fishguy10 (Aug 6, 2011)

Did you have any dumping problems with the Aquatek regulator? I'll check ebay for the regulators. If you buy all of the parts separately, are they hard to assemble? Also, which needle valves are considered to be of higher quality, without being super expensive? Thank you for the advice and help


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## Z400 (Mar 24, 2010)

Ive never experienced it but it probably happens. 
I havent had that problem though. 

Not hard to assemble, you might need to take the low pressure gauge off of the regulator to install the solenoid, depends on your set up. Or you can tape the solenoid apart. 

When i assemble a system i take the low pressure gauge off, easier IMO. 

Swagelock's have more of a fine tuning feel for them as the Fabco's have more resistance when adjusting them. 


Go with a Burkert or Clippard Mouse Solenoid


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## Fishguy10 (Aug 6, 2011)

Thanks for the recommendations. 

Just thought of two more questions. First, what diameter should I go with for all of this stuff? It looks like they have everything from 1/8in up to 1in. Seems like standard airline tubing is either 1/4 or 1/8. Which brings me to my second question. I've heard of CO2 resistant tubing, what is it made of and if it is CO2 resistant, will it say so? 

The name brands you listed helped me a lot, because there are so many different makers out there and it is hard to know which ones to trust. Thank you.


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## Z400 (Mar 24, 2010)

you want 1/8" 

The fitting leaving your regulator is going to need to be a 1/4" x 1/8" reducer or a 1/4" with some plumbing that will eventually need to be reduced to 1/8". 

I carry a crap load of fittings, havent sold any in quite awhile but still have a bunch i could sell. 


CO2 resistant tubing, cant remember what it is made out of. 
Your local hardware store should carry something that is CO2 resistant, Im not help once again though as i can not remember the name of it. 


I bought some CO2 resistant tubing from an online supplier about a year ago, still trying to use it up with setting up systems and what not. 
If you buy CO2 resistant tubing, it will say it is resistant to CO2, that is usually what it is sold as when looking for the specific stuff. "CO2 resistant tubing"


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## Fishguy10 (Aug 6, 2011)

Good to know I should get 1/8in. Thanks for the info and name brands regarding all of this CO2 equipment. It's hard to know what brands and what sizes to use. About how big will the whole setup be, including the regulator, needle valve, solenoid, and bubble counter (I think you need one of these?)


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## Z400 (Mar 24, 2010)

It all depends on what you buy and how you plumb it in.

This is my setup on my 90 gallon currently.

Air Gas regulator 
Burkert Solenoid
Swakelock Needlevalve 
Glass Bubble Counter
Inline Atomizer 
5lb CO2 bottle










And here is a bad picture of one of my Aquatek's on the same aquarium from an earlier date with a 10lb bottle.


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

I use only 9 more watts of T5HO over my 72 gal discus tank. I think 96watts over a 29 gal is WAY too much. I used to have 2x more but got sick of the algae and of the plants growing so fast. Just saying you can get away with MUCH less light than most think....


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## Fishguy10 (Aug 6, 2011)

Z400, thank you for the pictures, they really help a lot. I think that that is pretty much exactly what I need to look for. What is an Atomizer btw?

Rich, it may be too much light, but I am planning on keeping some fairly difficult plants and some with very high light requirements. They don't really seem to make 3 bulb fixtures, so it's either 2 or 4 and two at a total of 48 watts over a 29gallon just didn't seem like enough light. I hope that I won't have to worry about algae too much. Thank you for your input, lighting does seem to be a fairly divided topic.


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## Z400 (Mar 24, 2010)

Atomizer is what you see picture to the left of my Regulator set up. 
It is plumbed inline with my return line for my Canister Filter. 
It its a CO2 diffuser.


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

Just curious, which high light plants to you plan to grow?


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## Fishguy10 (Aug 6, 2011)

Z400, thanks for pointing it out and letting me know what it does. The CO2 help has been great 

Rich, I've been planning on having a foreground of mostly HC, and some nice red plants in the back. These will probably include rotala macranda narrow leaf, alternanthera reineckii, and ludwigia glandulosa. I would like to get good short growth out of the HC and really nice reds out of the others. Not exactly sure if I'll use all three or not, I was only going to use two of them, but I guess if I do get all three and one of them doesn't grow as well I can move it around. Those are probably the highest light requiring ones, but I'll also include eleocharis parvula and pogostemon helferi on this list. I really like the way the second one looks, and it would be nice to get some really dense growth out of it. Would you consider all of these plants, or at least most of them, as being high light requiring? 

Plus, the problem with 29gallon tanks is that they are 30in wide. They don't make 30in fixtures, or at least not bulbs to go with them, so I have to raise my fixture just slightly above the top of the tank. I'm hoping that this will allow the light to cover the whole tank effectively. 

I looked at your tank, it looks absoulutly fantastic; very inspiring


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## Fishguy10 (Aug 6, 2011)

Z400, it looks like your setup runs at about 35psi. Is that a standard number, or do you have to change it to fit your specific needs? Also, I've noticed that gauges have both an inner circle of numbers on them, and an outer circle of numbers on them. The inner circle of numbers is the measurement in psi, and therefore the one we read, right? I've also been looking around for parts, and I seem to have found some. However, I'm not sure if they are compatible and I wouldn't want to get parts that won't work together. Would a 6011 Burkert brass solenoid with 1/8in FNPT connect to a ****** Swagelok 1/8in brass needle valve with MNPT? Still looking for regulators, but it sounds like I would need a perma-seal to attach a regulator to a CO2 tank? Then I would probably just need a connector to attach the regulator to the solenoid, and a connector to attach tubing to the needle valve? Do you know which connector would connect CO2 tubing to a needle valve assuming they are both 1/8in? Thank you so much for all of your help on this topic, it's been making all of this a lot easier.


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## Z400 (Mar 24, 2010)

My setup runs at around 35psi due to my Atomizer. 
You can build your own CO2 reactor and it will operate fine around 15psi or so. 

Yes, PSI is the number we read. 

The solenoid you've picked out with work fine, i dont know about that needle valve, never seen one of those. 

You need a CGA320 fitting from your regulator to your CO2 bottle. The perma-seal is just that, its a seal between the CGA320 fitting and the valve on the bottle, 

To run your CO2 tubing to your needle valve you could either use a compression fitting or a hose barbed fitting.


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## Fishguy10 (Aug 6, 2011)

Around 15psi, ok that sounds good. Some of the gauges go from 0-30 so that would be good. The needle valve is fairly inexpensive, could be a warning sign, but it looks just like other needle valves. There doesn't seem to be a lot of 1/8in needle valves around, and the ones I did see were expensive. Do you think that it would work, or probably not? As for the fittings between regulator and CO2 tank, it goes regulator, CGA320, perma-seal, tank right? Or does the perma-seal include a CGA320 fitting in it? What diameter are these fittings, because I'm guessing that I would have to get a regulator with the same size? I found both compression fittings and hose barbed fittings. The compression fittings seem to be a little bit more expensive, but which one provides a better seal? Thanks in advance


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## Z400 (Mar 24, 2010)

This is a Perma-Seal http://www.marinedepot.com/MK_I_Per...ories-House_Brand_(CO2)-CO3177-FICOCA-vi.html 
This is a CGA320 nut and nipple http://www.amazon.com/Western-Enterprises-SEPTLS3126CO2-Regulator-Inlet/dp/B002B0L0GA
They have no relation at all to a CGA320 fitting besides sealing the gap off between the fitting and the valve on the co2 bottle.

Start looking for Swagelock proportioning valves instead of needle valves

You are going to need 1 1/4" to 1/8" reducer, your regulator is going to have a 1/4" out that will need to be reduced to 1/8".


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## Fishguy10 (Aug 6, 2011)

Ok so I need one of each to attach a regulator to a CO2. Do proportioning valves and needle valves do the same thing? If not, what is the difference? Thanks for the help


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## Z400 (Mar 24, 2010)

Im not sure what the difference is really, never looked into it. 
i just know the valve i bought was bought as a "Proportioning valve"


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## Fishguy10 (Aug 6, 2011)

Ok, I'll look into proportioning valves. Btw, which connector provides a better seal between the needle valve and the CO2 tubing, a compression fitting or a hose barbed fitting?


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## Z400 (Mar 24, 2010)

Compression fitting is going to be more permanent. 
But a hose barbed fittings works just as well IMO. 

Ive used both, my Aquatek setups all have hose barbed fittings leaving the Fabco needle valves as where my Swagelock valves all have compression fittings. 

Compression fittings can be a hassle if your changing your system up or moving things around often. 
Hose barbed fittings are simple to attach and detach air lines to and from.


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## Fishguy10 (Aug 6, 2011)

Good to know, sounds like either will work, but compression might provide a slightly better seal. 

I looked around for proportioning valves, I think it is just another term for a needle valve. I've still been having a difficult time finding 1/8" swagelok needle valves. About the one I found before, the ****** Swagelok 1/8" brass integral bonnet needle valve, it is cheaper than some of the others I have seen, but do you think that it would work? I know you have never heard of it, but do you think it might be worth a try, or should I just forget about it? I've been able to find just about everything else fairly easily, just not a good needle valve. What do you think?


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## Z400 (Mar 24, 2010)

http://www.swagelok.com/search/find...w+Metering+Valves,+Cv+up+to+0.004+(1000+psig+[68+bar]%29+/id-10002278/type-1&item=1acb7133-8c34-4ad2-b0c5-74ad982a58ce

http://www.swagelok.com/search/find...e-1&item=7553025b-4e33-43d7-a13b-b06b267e721c

http://store.fabco-air.com/products.php?cat=113

Cant get the first link to work so click on the remaining link, on the left click on valves, and then metering valves, i picked out the second valve listed, which is what i use.


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## Fishguy10 (Aug 6, 2011)

Ok cool that helps a lot. I've been looking at the swagelok website. The only problem with it is that they don't seem to say which types of valves are better for certain applications, and there are no prices listed for anything...I guess you have to register in order to see the prices. I guess I'll try to find prices for them in other places. There's so many different valves and they all seem to do the exact same thing. It looks like you have the B-SS2, and if it works for you then I'm sure it would work for me.  Thanks for the help


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## Z400 (Mar 24, 2010)

yep, and if you cant get ahold of one, the Fabco valves are great too.


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## Fishguy10 (Aug 6, 2011)

I'll have to check for both. I'll probably try for a swagelok metering valve, but if I can't find it anywhere I may look into the Fabco valves. Thank you so much for all of your help on this topic. I think that it is funny that a question on lighting quickly changed into CO2. It seems the two are very closely related and that CO2 may be more necessary than I had originally thought. Btw, how much CO2 does fish respiration add? I would assume that it would be fairly low unless the tank was very heavily stocked, although mine will probably be a little over-stocked. Anyways, thanks again for all of your CO2 help, it's really made it easier and made me really consider adding it. I don't know if I ever asked, but in your opinion would you say that it is necessary at least for high light tanks? Thanks again


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## Z400 (Mar 24, 2010)

With high light, CO2 is a must, with Medium light IMO it is a must also.


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## Fishguy10 (Aug 6, 2011)

Thank you for all of your help on CO2. I will definitely have to look in to getting a CO2 system.


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