# dying Bolbitis



## blondeyny (Apr 7, 2010)

A couple weeks ago I got some fully grown Bolbitis Heudelotti from a fellow hobbyist. After a 2 min bleach dip, (19 parts water/1 part bleach) I attached them to some slate, and added it to my tank. Now I am down to less than 1/2 the leaves/branches, as half of them have rotted away. The snails in the tank have munched on the dying parts for me, and I cleared away a good amount. The original tank they came from had a lower ph than mine, and excel was also added. Not sure about a possible change in lighting. There are some rhizomes that rotted, but there still are some green rhizomes left. I was finally able to get some excel and started adding it to the tank. I was adding a liquid fert before I added the bolbitis, and still continue to. Some people have mentioned that the bleach dip killed it. I don't see how since I have done the same before on Javas and such that are similar, with no bad results. 

I am guessing the plant went into shock from the change? Is it going to bounce back hopefully?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi blondeyny,

Did you rinse your plants in clean water with a de-chlorinator after the bleach dip?


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## blondeyny (Apr 7, 2010)

Yeppers. Rinsed them with clean water and let them soak for a little bit in water with a bunch of Prime. Then rinsed again. Made sure I couldn't smell any bleach.

I also put them where the water flow is the heaviest, right near the outflow of the filter. I read that they like water flow. That's why I can only think it's due to the change in ph and lack of excel for a couple weeks. I am just really hoping it'll come back.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

Should bounce back, but will probably take a long time depending on your conditions. I've never really understood the concept of bleach dipping plants. What did you dip for algae snails, both?


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## blondeyny (Apr 7, 2010)

basically both. The tank it came from had some sort of algae I wasn't sure of, and LOTS of snails. I already have enough ramshorns than I know what to do with, lord knows I didn't need another kind of snail infesting my tank. I always bleach dip plants considering they could introduce almost anything nasty into your tank. 

I guess I have low light, I add liquid ferts, and now excel.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

I personallly never really believed in the bleach dip. First off for a plant like Bolbitis it take a long time to establish and most of the leaves that are on the plant when you receive it aren't really as important as getting new leaves coming off the rhizome so you're much better off just cutting off many of the larger leaves when you receive the plant as oppossed to doing the bleach thing. As far as snails, I've never seen a clean tank have a snail issue. That always takes care of itself. Just my 2 cents.


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## DJKronik57 (Apr 17, 2006)

I certainly hope you made a typo. 2 minutes at 19 (!!!) parts bleach, 1 part water is wayyyyy to long for almost full strength bleach. That'll wipe out any plant.


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## marte82 (Apr 15, 2009)

guys a question, what's the bleach when you can use hydrogen peroxide 3%? 
disinfection is the same and leaves do not suffer damage


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## edwardn (Nov 8, 2008)

houseofcards said:


> I personallly never really believed in the bleach dip. First off for a plant like Bolbitis it take a long time to establish and most of the leaves that are on the plant when you receive it aren't really as important as getting new leaves coming off the rhizome so you're much better off just cutting off many of the larger leaves when you receive the plant as oppossed to doing the bleach thing. As far as snails, I've never seen a clean tank have a snail issue. That always takes care of itself. Just my 2 cents.


I beg to differ...

Every frond (leaf) on a rhizome counts towards plants better establishing itself and developing a new growth !!! It is as simple as that, since the existing frond produces carbohydrates required as a building blocks ( energy storage)towards further plant enlargement of its mass, root growth, etc. When dealing with a slow growing plants as Bolbitis sp., this point seem to be of more importance, then with other, faster growing plants.

Theretofore removing viable fronds/leaves slows that plant growth and development.

It would be somehow different with plants growing emmersed, where we do reduce leaf surface in order to lessen the burden of sufficient water supply by roots damaged in transplanting, what is required for plant establishing and preventing dessication, etc.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

edwardn said:


> I beg to differ...
> 
> Every frond (leaf) on a rhizome counts towards plants better establishing itself and developing a new growth !!! It is as simple as that, since the existing frond produces carbohydrates required as a building blocks ( energy storage)towards further plant enlargement of its mass, root growth, etc. When dealing with a slow growing plants as Bolbitis sp., this point seem to be of more importance, then with other, faster growing plants.
> 
> ...


I appreicate your view, but it's not really "..as simple as that" nor as black and white as most things in this hobby. * I'll stand by my comment that it is better to cut off damaged and or algae-ridden leaves than to do a bleach dip.* I'm not implying to cut-off all leaves, but even if you did it will still grow fine in the right conditions. Determing the effect off cutting off the larger leaves on a rhizmone you purchased vs keeping ALL leaves is splitting hairs in terms of growth rate. Why carry damaged leaves on the plant. BTW If it's housed under low light it will live and grow slow, but given high light and high co2 this plant will take off like most plants.


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## edwardn (Nov 8, 2008)

Read your first comment and compare it with the second one of yours and ask yourself whose intelligence do you intend to insult?

Are you able to do it by yourself, or do you need help?


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

houseofcards said:


> I appreicate your view, but it's not really "..as simple as that" nor as black and white as most things in this hobby. * I'll stand by my comment that it is better to cut off damaged and or algae-ridden leaves than to do a bleach dip.* I'm not implying to cut-off all leaves, but even if you did it will still grow fine in the right conditions. Determing the effect off cutting off the larger leaves on a rhizmone you purchased vs keeping ALL leaves is splitting hairs in terms of growth rate. Why carry damaged leaves on the plant. BTW If it's housed under low light it will live and grow slow, but given high light and high co2 this plant will take off like most plants.


How does the above statment try to insult your intelligence. I can't have my own view based on my own experience with the plant. I even started it by saying "I appreciate your view" The fact that you started a personal attack on me (which the Moderators will clearly see) tells me your trying to protect someone from a prior thread I disagreed with or your another scentific dweb that sees everything in black and white.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Gentlemen, 

Please keep the personal stuff out of it and keep to the topic! Thank you!


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## blondeyny (Apr 7, 2010)

Ehhhhm anyhoooo...



DJKronik57 said:


> I certainly hope you made a typo. 2 minutes at 19 (!!!) parts bleach, 1 part water is wayyyyy to long for almost full strength bleach. That'll wipe out any plant.


Yes sorry...I fixed the typo. It was 1 part bleach/19 parts water. Sorry about that.

marte82- from what I have read, bleach will kill most any unwanted ugly that may be on the plant (ie, snails, diseases, algae) I don't think Hydrogen Peroxide is as total on the eradication of some of those things. I've done bleach dips numerous times prior to this with no issues.

So did we ever answer the question? Is my bolbitis a lost cause? It's basically down to a few rhizomes with only a couple not so hot looking leaves.


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## FarCanal (Mar 12, 2008)

G'day blondeyny,

I've had a fair bit of success growing Bolbitis and the part of your posts that jumps out at me is the PH part. If bolbitis is kept at a PH above 7 it's fronds will start to turn black and if left it will die. You mentioned a few times that your PH is higher than the original tank it came from but how high is it?


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## blondeyny (Apr 7, 2010)

Mine is around 7.6 ph. I have read online both sides of it, that it will be fine up to 8 and that it won't. The tank it came from I believe she said it was 7.4. That's only because she added stuff to keep it raised from 6.6. So it's not that big of a difference, but a difference none the less. I hoping the combo of a couple weeks without excel and the overall change in conditions caused shock. Otherwise I got nothing. 

I took it out tonight and trimmed off all the dead stuff and reattached it to the slate. There is still a fair amount of green rhizome left. I'm also going to start adding liquid ferts daily (versus once a week) to see if it helps, along with the excel.


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## FarCanal (Mar 12, 2008)

blondeyny said:


> Mine is around 7.6 ph. I have read online both sides of it, that it will be fine up to 8 and that it won't. The tank it came from I believe she said it was 7.4. That's only because she added stuff to keep it raised from 6.6. So it's not that big of a difference, but a difference none the less. I hoping the combo of a couple weeks without excel and the overall change in conditions caused shock. Otherwise I got nothing.
> 
> I took it out tonight and trimmed off all the dead stuff and reattached it to the slate. There is still a fair amount of green rhizome left. I'm also going to start adding liquid ferts daily (versus once a week) to see if it helps, along with the excel.


G'day Blondeyny,

There is always conflicting information out there on the Web and it's often hard to get good reliable information. It's best to stick to reliable sources, the tropica site gives the PH tolerance at 5-7, Kasselmann's Aquarium plants book (a bible for aquatic plants) says this species loves a PH range of 6.0 to 6.8. You're friend growing it at an altered 7.4 might be pushing the limits. I know if mine ever starts showing black leaves that the PH is creeping up (out of the tap here it's 8.0 and I alter it to 6.8 )

Here's a photo of what mine looks like at 6.8 http://www.tfhmagazine.com/resources/plant-of-the-month/2010/june-bolbitis-heudelotii/ I've been growing this plant for years and I hope your luck improves with it, it's a beautiful plant.

Brian.


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## ddavila06 (Jan 31, 2009)

mine took forever to finally attach and show improvement...i did not bleach but a trimmed quiite a bit. i would say leave it alone and wait, the roots/rizome should make it even if all the leaves die. hope that helps


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## blondeyny (Apr 7, 2010)

Thank you all for your help. I guess all I can do, is sit, wait, add some ferts/excel, and sit and wait some more. I wish the stuff wasn't so hard to find/expensive, I'd get more and try again.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

Just for the record, my ph out of tap is around 7.5 and around 6.5 by height of day with co2. As mentioned it does take a while to adjust and if you have healthy rhizome you have a chance for it to recover. As with all plants, co2 makes it grow quicker.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

edwardn said:


> I beg to differ...
> 
> Every frond (leaf) on a rhizome counts towards plants better establishing itself and developing a new growth !!! It is as simple as that, since the existing frond produces carbohydrates required as a building blocks ( energy storage)towards further plant enlargement of its mass, root growth, etc. When dealing with a slow growing plants as Bolbitis sp., this point seem to be of more importance, then with other, faster growing plants.
> 
> ...





houseofcards said:


> I appreicate your view, but it's not really "..as simple as that" nor as black and white as most things in this hobby. * I'll stand by my comment that it is better to cut off damaged and or algae-ridden leaves than to do a bleach dip.* I'm not implying to cut-off all leaves, but even if you did it will still grow fine in the right conditions. Determing the effect off cutting off the larger leaves on a rhizmone you purchased vs keeping ALL leaves is splitting hairs in terms of growth rate. Why carry damaged leaves on the plant. BTW If it's housed under low light it will live and grow slow, but given high light and high co2 this plant will take off like most plants.


A while back there was a difference of opinion on what to do with damaged leaves and other existing leaves on Bolbitis when acclimated to a new tank. This got heated and when I stuck to my 'experience' the other member became insulting.

I happened upon these tidbits from Creative Aquascape Union (CAU) and the Aquatic Gardeners Association that completely supports my view. Again I never give information out that I haven't experienced myself. I am posting these to clarify and help those that have problems with Bolbitis at startup.

The following is an excerpt from the Aquatic Gardeners piece:

*"...An important point for attaching a member of the fern family is to cut off old leaves of ferns, such as Bolbitis and Microsorum, as much as possible before attaching them to driftwood. Old mature leaves do not easily adapt to a new environment and algae tend to grow on them. The tip of a young growing leaf of Microsorum is transparent. You should keep mainly these young leaves and cut off old ones. In the case of Bolbitis, you can cut off most of the large leaves. In an extreme case it is quite fine to attach only the rhizomes to driftwood. Doing so allows the ferns to develop clean new leaves that are adapted to the new aquarium environment..."*

http://www.cau-aqua.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=40&lang=en

http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/driftwood.html


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## tiffc (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks for posting that info. I myself find it useful.

blondeyny, I had to remove quite a few leaves off of some java fern a while back, leaving some rhizomes bare. Although the growth is very very slow in my low light tank, there are new leaves appearing. Just keep fertilizing and know that they may take a while to re-establish.


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