# Water Changes w/Fry in Tank?



## LindaC (Nov 7, 2005)

Will it be safe for me to do a 50% water change on Saturday when I have Krib fry in my tank? I need to change the water and also clean the tank but I think I may have to forgo cleaning and just suction some water out from the top. 

Anyone else have this problem and if so, what did you do about it?


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Whenever I've had cichlids with fry I've done the water changes from the top corner furthest away from the family. If you're doing a 50% water change make sure the water's very close to that in the tank in terms of tds and temperature, but I'm sure you knew that! I've always trickled the water back in too. Krins are pretty tolerant, but these are a new pair right? Better to play it safe and be as undisturbing as possible.

To be honest in my breeding tanks once I think babies are on the way I don't clean the substrate and let the mulm build up a bit - it provides loads of infusoria for the babies to feed on inbetween meals.


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## LindaC (Nov 7, 2005)

I have had the female since she was a juvenille and the male was purchased about 3 weeks ago. They seem to be pretty trusting of me as I have had my hands in the tank removing dead leaves and such and they just stayed along the bottom letting the fry pick at the subtrate. I also removed the 3 Rams I had in the tank for now, so they have the tank to themselves except for a couple of ottos. 

One thing I've noticed is the amount of fry seems to be getting a little smaller although it's hard to tell for sure, as there are still quite a few of them. Is this normal, do the parents eat some of them?

If I do a water change this weekend, I will be very careful to do it from the opposite side of the tank and from the top. I won't clean it, I do not want to scare them.


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## Left Coast DJ (Nov 16, 2006)

Linda, from what I remember, there was an inverse relation between the size of the fry and the number of fry. They do decrease. The parents might chow down on some - especially if this is their first brood. That's why it might be best to have a fry/grow-out tank.

Also, I read somewhere (It's was a while back, so I can't cite the source now) that most nitrates are present on the bottom level of the tank. So if you're just scooping up the water from the top, I think you're changing the most oxygen-rich water while the dirty water is still on the bottom. Maybe you can put some pantyhose over your gravel vac (this is easiest with a Python) and just siphon the water from the bottom without disturbing the substrate.

DJ


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

It's very unlikely that the parents are eating a few fry at a time. They may well pick up stragglers in their mouths, but they spit them back into the shoal. What other fish are in the tank? If the parents think a brood isn't viable (very unlikely with fry, unless they get spooked) they may eat the whole brood and then try again when conditions improve.

In a tank with even moderate water circulation I can't imagine how a dissolved substance could accumulate in any particular area of a tank and would be far more wary of spooking the fish. Their behaviour will be different now they've got little ones. They may react quite differently to your hand being in the tank. Then again they might be fine with it, you won't know until you do the change. Play it safe the first time, then see how you go in future weeks.

One of my female Apistogramma eremnopyge has spawned today so I may be enjoying similar problems to you soon. Only problem is I've got some Epiplatys to remove from the tank or they'll make short work of the fry. Guess I'm going to find out how much disturbance this female can take!


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

It's best to siphon stuffs at the bottom of the tank. I've raised many babies...guppy, angel, betta, neon, cardinal, and discus. All appreciate daily water change. 50% if you have time. Otherwise, at least 20% per day until the babies are 1/2" long. All babies grow very quickly with clean water and six meals per day.

Cardinals are the most difficult to raise because the babies are so small. They are also sensitive to light and any small change in water chemistry. One must keep the water at very high quality level for the first month. I usually lose +95% of the babies before they reach 0.4".


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

I've found it best to do smaller water changes more often in fry tanks instead of one large water change. I also use panty hose over my syphone to keep fry from getting sucked up.


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## LindaC (Nov 7, 2005)

Well the parents did end up eating all the fry, actually I believe it was mostly the mother. As I stated above, I did notice that each day there appeared to be less, I'm not 100% sure but it looked that way. On Friday evening, there were 10, at least that is what I counted. The parents had then right out in front, very visable to us. 

On Saturday morning before the lights went on, I noticed the male chasing the female all over the tank. Then the lights went on and the female appeared to be very scared, she was hiding length wise, as if she was standing on her head, up at the top along the side of of the outtake pipe of the filter. I've never seem anything like that before. When the lights went on, I noticed that there were about 3-4 fry left, at the most, and the male was standing guard over them. He was fighting her off for most of the morning but then by late afternoon, the male and female appeared to be okay with one another, and then I noticed the last of the fry were gone. This morning I put the 3 Rams back in the tank and did a 50% water change and all appears to be baclk to normal, atleast until the next spawn.

What would cause the female to eat her young? Is it because this is their first spawn, could they have been spooked by the 2 Ottos? They were the only other inhabitants of the tank. I'm not sure if the female got at the last of them or if the male eventually ate them. He appeared to be quite the protector there for a while. It would have been nice to see some of them make it.

I love the idea of a using panty hose or a hair net over the opening of the python. I will definitey use that the next time I have fry.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

It's not uncommon for Pelvicachromis pairs to eat their first brood or two, even if conditions are perfect and they're completely undisturbed. Give them some time and lots of nice food and they'll lay a much bigger batch soon and they'll be way more likely to survive. The female will eat the eggs/young fry if she feels she's unable to raise them successfully. Better for her to have the protein and energy back than something else get it! From 10 fry, in the wild she would be very unlikely to have any survive so she's better to recycle those and start again.
The friction between the pair might have been the male trying to stop the female eating the fry - I've seen this happen with some of my pelvics. They get over it quickly and will be spawning again soon I'm sure.

Unless the tank is tiny otos shouldn't have been a problem - more likely to just be a young pair. Just leave them undisturbed and keep up the feeding. Add live food if you can get a safe source, they love it. If you can it might be best to house them rams elsewhere.

The pantyhose over the tube is a great tip to stop fry being sucked up but the actual disturbance of 'rooting' around the tank may well disturb a new pair. 'Mulm' on the bottom of a tank won't cause any harm, especially when you have plants and a good biological filter going. In fact it can be a good source of some infusoria and baby kribs especially love rooting in it for food! Uneaten food can cause problems and too much will need syphoning out. Once I have babies in a tank, especially with all types of cichlids, I usually stop syphoning the bottom and have never had problems. Do water changes to keep down nitrogenous waste, but don't worry about inert mulm on the bottom. Just tidy it up once the babies get larger. The parents will have calmed down a lot by then and won't eat their babies and the babies will be large enough so that you don't syphon them up!


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