# I think I have a problem



## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

From what I've been reading, it looks like I have Brown Algae or Diatoms in my tank. I get a bit of it on my Hornwort but the snails seem to eat that right up but I do have some on the glass of the tank.

I know that Otos eat brown algae but I don't know how that would go. I've never kept another fish with my betta so I don't know if they would fight. Should I just wipe it off the sides? Also, what would be causing this? From what I've read, silicates from tap water can cause this to form. If that's the case, what should I do? Could the water I use to top up his tank be causing the algae to form? I also have the tank lights on for 11 hours a day and on some days, the tank gets around an hour of sunlight(the lights are not on at this time). Do I have too much lighting in my tank or not enough?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

P.S. My tank is an El Natural tank in case that helps.


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## StevenLeeds (Jul 21, 2007)

I have had no problems with having bettas and otos in the same tank. The sometimes squabble over the remains of an algae wafer or the wafer for the cories. Other than that they leave eachother alone. I have three tanks with that setup. Otos like to eat constantly and will make quick work of brown algae. They are one of my favorite fish and I love watching them swim around together and clean the plants. The japanese marsh shrimp will also make a meal of the algae and any dead plant leaves you may have. And they're fun to watch as well especially when they are hanging upside down on the floating plants.

I added a bunch of damaged frogbit to one of the tanks. Overnight every speck of brown on the frogbit was gone and they left the rest. I'm now growing more than I'll be able to handle. I know I'm rambling a bit here but I think it is important to stock a planted tank with a good clean up crew. They do such a good job on the tanks I have that I have a hard time growing enough enough algae to feed them and supplement their diet algae wafers and lightly boiled lettuce. A small piece in a cup of water microwaved for 30 seconds or so to soften it up. You can tell if the otos are getting enough food by the shape of their belly. It should always be a bit on the plump side.

Two 2.5 gallon setups - one betta, two otos, two julii cories and some japanese marsh shrimp.

One 5.5 gallon - one betta, three otos and a handful of the marsh shrimp. A spotted cory is going to be drip aclimated in the 5.5 this evening. He doesn't do well in the other tank with some of his friends and seems to be healthier alone.

(My other non planted tanks also have otos in them...)

All three tanks are well planted. I buy the smallest of whatever fish I put in the tanks and will move them to larger tanks when they get bigger.

If you go with the otos I would recommed drip aclimating them to your tank. They're somewhat fragile fish and are easily stressed. I usually keep the light off for a day when I first add them to the tank.

Again sorry for the rambling, I do hope some of it helps.

Cheers,
Steven


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Thank you, Steven. 

The only concern I have with putting otos in my betta's tank is that ever since he's been put in there, he's started making bubblenests and because of that, he's become quite territorial. Sometimes, he'll lunge at my fingers if they are close to the water! The one thing he's fine with is snails.

Would you know of any snails that would be good at removing diatoms?


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

What fast growing plants do you have?
Soil covered from the sun?


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

newbie314 said:


> What fast growing plants do you have?
> Soil covered from the sun?


I have Hornwort, Duckweed(lemna minor) and Water Lettuce as floaters. They are all growing like weeds.

As for the soil, are you referring to the part of the tank on the outside(where the soil is) being covered? If so, then no. I'm not having a problem with the Diatoms being on the substrate so would it matter if the soil area is covered? They're on the glass(about half way up the glass). The last day or two, I've been keeping part of the window where the sun comes in closed so the sun isn't shining onto the tank.


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## Error (Apr 16, 2004)

I think you could try Otocinclus safely. Even your Betta attacks them at first, it will probably learn to tolerate them. In my experience, Otos are hardy little buggers too. I doubt a Betta is much of a threat, particularly with places available to hide from it.

If you do try Otos, I would get 2 or more. They like company. Also a lone individual might attract a lot of BettaRage.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Error said:


> I think you could try Otocinclus safely. Even your Betta attacks them at first, it will probably learn to tolerate them. In my experience, Otos are hardy little buggers too. I doubt a Betta is much of a threat, particularly with places available to hide from it.
> 
> If you do try Otos, I would get 2 or more. They like company. Also a lone individual might attract a lot of BettaRage.


When I saw your username, I immediately though of the Adventures of Link game for the Nintendo. lol

I was reading up more on them and from what I've read, they like slightly acidic water. My water is very hard and the pH is high. Would they even be able to handle those conditions?

I have been looking into Nerite snails though. From everything I've read, they too like diatoms and other algaes. My only problem is trying to find a store that sells them in my area.


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## Error (Apr 16, 2004)

Nerite snails are impossible to find for me as well 

I think your Otos will be fine in hard water. Remember, Bettas are soft/acidic water fish too. Fish are highly adaptable. Just make sure you acclimate them properly. StevenLeeds's acclimation procs look good.

Also, practically speaking...Otocinclus are cheap $$$


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## StevenLeeds (Jul 21, 2007)

Even when nesting they haven't bothered the otos.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Steven,

Thanks for the info on Otos. It sounds like you have gotten their care down pat. They are cute little cleaners. I might try them again using some of your tips for feeding and acclimating them.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Hi,

Brown algae prefers to grow where the light is low. Are your floating plants allowing enough light to get through to the bottom? The fact that the algae is growing just half way up the glass suggests that it is a lighting problem.

If the brown algae is not too heavy the easiest thing to do is to wipe it off the glass. 

As far as oto's are concerned, you should expect to have fairly heavy mortality in the first few weeks that you have them. Once you get past that point, the ones that survive can be quite hardy. I've given up on them (for now), and I think from her comment that Diana also might have had problems. (I assume that we are talking about the dwarf oto's and not the larger ones.)

And, finally, the betta is trying to tell you that he wants a girl friend to make bubble nests with. A temporary girl friend, anyway.  

Good luck!

Bill


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Besides acclimitizing otos very slowly, using the drip method. Ask the shop where you plan to buy them from, how long they have had the otos in the tank. If they say a couple of months, then there is a greater chance that they won't kick the bucket on you and will be healthier. I also dealt with a shop that had a 30 day warranty on the fish(otos usually kick the bucket within 30 days if they are not survivors). The three otos that I have are about 6 months old and they were also purchased from a supplier who had them in his tanks for at least two months. Also, be sure to have the shop pick ones that have a full belly as this is a sign that they are eating and fed properly. The only problem that I had was finding a shop that had otos for 2 months in its tank. Otos tend to be quite popular and usually sell out within weeks of arriving.

One more thing, you may want to feed the otos once they clean up the diatom algae. I found that when I had diatom algae. The otos cleaned out the diatom algae within 3 days and it never came back. To keep them from starving, I microwaved some zucchinni(I think I spelled that wrong) for 30 seconds to soften it and placed it in the tank overnight, being sure to remove it the next morning to keep it from rotting and causing an ammonia spike.


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

It might just take some time for the floaters to clear the water column of nutrients.
I had the green algae grow on the duckweed roots and would just take those duckweed out.

Then again I have 4W/gallon for light, so brown may not be much of a problem.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

aquabillpers said:


> Brown algae prefers to grow where the light is low. Are your floating plants allowing enough light to get through to the bottom? The fact that the algae is growing just half way up the glass suggests that it is a lighting problem.


Now that confuses me. When I did a search on Diatoms, some sites said it's caused by not enough lighting yet other sites say it's from too much lighting. Which is it?

My water lettuce is in the middle so the light gets around those no problem but it could be from the Hornwort I have in there. I'm constantly trimming it up.

Although it's not really thick or noticeable(you only see it when you're really close to the glass), I do have to scrape some of it off. I just use the old thermometer I use to have in there. lol The plastic edge gets rid of it pretty good.

As for the otos, I too heard that there's a good chance that the poor little guys can die when you first buy them because they get stressed easily. That's why I would rather try some Nerite snails first. I've also grown quite fond of the little snails I have now so I wouldn't mind a few more. lol


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

they say excess silicates & low lights lead to diatoms.. I'm sceptical about the excess silicate claim.
I think excess phosophate & low lights might have something to do with the brown algae.


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

Well if it is not too noticeable, then just leave it.
I think I have a little of the brown stuff. It is definately on the side where the light is. The 2.5G aquarium has a compact flor. bulb replacement so there is definately more light on the right of the tank.
A little is probably just the price we pay. I like to get the snail population up, since there always seems to be many babies on the glass. Of course if the Betta would stop eating the snails


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Red_Rose said:


> Now that confuses me. When I did a search on Diatoms, some sites said it's caused by not enough lighting yet other sites say it's from too much lighting. Which is it?


It is as I said . Do a search on "brown algae". Either let more light get to the bottom, or rub it off every now and then.



> As for the otos, I too heard that there's a good chance that the poor little guys can die when you first buy them because they get stressed easily. That's why I would rather try some Nerite snails first. I've also grown quite fond of the little snails I have now so I wouldn't mind a few more. lol


Oto's have low survival rates because they are all caught wild and go through several hands before they get to the fish store. That by itself is very stressful and is probably the main reason that they die in the first month. If they are carefully acclimatized probably the survival rate will go up, but they are still pretty high risk. IMO their sale should be discouraged until the importers figure out how to keep them alive.

Here's a good oto link: http://www.otocinclus.com/newoto.html

People say a lot of nice things about nerite snails. Don't plan to get any baby snails from them, though; they are not like most snails. The larvae need do time in salt water before they can come back to fresh water and become the snails that we see.

Good luck!

Bill


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## StevenLeeds (Jul 21, 2007)

I lost a lot of Otos until I learned how to treat them during the trip from the store to my tanks. Since then I have only lost 1 out of 12. I just bought three of them but they are all eating well and active the rest are from about 6 months to 2 years old.

When you go to buy them:

1. Pick ones with plump bellys and darker stripes.

2. Insist that they be caught using two nets and not just pinned against the glass. Either of those happen, pass on the fish.

3. Bring some plant clippings with you to the store and have them put them in the bag with them. Bring enough for them to feel relatively safe.

4. Drip acclimate them to your tank slowly in a bucket or tank covered from bright light. Give them a place to hide in the meanwhile.

5. Turn the lights off for a light cycle when you add them to the tank until they become familiar with the hiding places.

6. Be sure there is enough food for them from the very begining. They eat constantly and should always have plump bellies...

This advice came from a LFS clerk and it has served me well. They're great fish to have and for the money very efficient cleaners.

Cheers,
Steven


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