# Ferts/CO2 Needed?



## GotTanked (Jun 12, 2010)

Hello all, new member here.

I am running a 30G tank (18" height) with a 39w T5 bulb over it. I am planting java fern, anubias, and stem plants.

My tank is not stocked yet, but I will have 2 schools of barbs providing Nitrate... my question is, to avoid algae, will I need to dose ferts? In the past, with low stock levels I had algae problems. Will increased stocking (and as such increased nitrate) prevent this or should I go with ferts?

Also, at my light level, would DIY CO2 be useful? I don't have a diffuser so I would be running through a filter. Would a HOB filter cause too much surface agitation?

Thanks in advance and for all the helpful guides/stickies.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi GotTanked,

Welcome to APC! This is a great site with a lot of helpful information (as you have discovered LOL). I am glad you joined us!

It is obvious you have been doing your reading, your light level is on the lower end of the scale and you have chosen mostly low light plants like the java ferns and anubias.

Although the barbs will add some nitrates to the water, the other nutrients that the plants need such as potassium, phosphate, iron, and other micros may be lacking. When I first started I used Seachem Flourish (Comprehensive) with DIY CO2 as my fertilizer and CO2 with good results; the CO2 definitely makes a difference. 

With a tank your size I would start off with 1 - 2 liter or 2 - 1 liter bottles of DIY CO2. I fed my CO2 into the input of my HOB and kept the tank level full to minimize surface agitation and CO2 loss.


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## GotTanked (Jun 12, 2010)

Thanks for the great reply. In reading around, I have noticed you give great advice! I have been doing some reading about dry ferts - at my tank size would they be a little bit of overkill? Seachem Flourish is great but I've read it's expensive over time.

Also, I have a 39w blue bulb in my fixture in addition to the 6700k white bulb. If I switched it out for another plant bulb (and so had 78w) how much of a difference would that make?

I've never grown anything except java ferns/moss, anubias, and water wisteria. Would I be in for a totally different world?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi GotTanked,

I didn't start using dry ferts until I had gotten my second tank, also I think it was easier for me to just dose the Flourish and adjust my lighting period for optimum growth at first. Once I got the light and CO2 figured out, then I went to dry ferts.

If you add a second white bulb (daylight = 6500K - 6700K) you will have about what I have on my tanks in watts per gallon (WPG). You will be able to grow most plant types exept those that need high light.

45 Gallon Tall - 96 watts









30 Gallon Long (36") - 72 watts


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## GotTanked (Jun 12, 2010)

That's the size tank I have (36" 30gal). Thanks for the reply again  I think I'll stick with the lower light for now.

Okay, so I'll start off with Flourish and DIY CO2. Do I need root tabs for stem plants like wisteria, or do they get nutrients from the water column? Same question for cryptocornes... I have pool filter sand, inert substrate.

Edit: I can't rep you, but you sure deserve it!


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi GotTanked,

I like root tabs for crypts and swordplants especially; however most stem plants get their nutrients primarily from the water column.

Thanks for the kind words; keep us posted on how things progress!


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## GotTanked (Jun 12, 2010)

Hello,
Haven't checked in for a bit, but I am ordering my plants. Here are some pertinent details on my tank:

pH 8.4, fairly soft water
Will dose Seachem Flourish, root tabs for root-feeding plants, and DIY CO2
30gal, 39w T5HO

For availability purposes, I am looking at:

Brazilian Pennywort
Dwarf Sag
Anubias - petite and nana
Java fern (no brainer)
Assorted crypts
Ludwigia repens (picked as my "red" plant)

Here are my questions:

Should I make another thread in a different area for plant-specific questions? 
Are these plants compatible with my conditions? Of course (from experience) I can handle Java ferns, and anubias nana. I think (from research) I should be able to do crypts, anubias petite, and Brazilian Pennywort. I am unsure about Dwarf Sag and L. repens.

Please correct me if I am wrong about the other plants. If Dwarf Sag (thinking as a fore/midground plant) and l. repens (background plant chosen for its red color) are unsuitable, what may replace them?

Thanks again for all the help. I should have plants within a month  Ahh, the waiting game.


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

You can use seachem equivalents but dosing levels recommended by Seachem are often low - limiting plant growth. EI (estimated index) dosing insures nutrients are no longer limiting. 10mL of Flourish will give you good amounts of micro nutrient, for your tank, but low levels of macros. You are going to need to add Macro nutrients. Dry ferts are an easy way to do this and cheap. Some people add them directly to the tank, others take a little water from their tank and mix the dry nutrients before they dump them in, others make stock solutions similar to Seachem liquid fertilizers and dose from a bottle. All with the same results. Health plants. With a new tank, not heavily planted, and low levels of light you might dose 1/2 EI doses to start and still have plenty of nutrients, but full EI dosing levels would be fine. No algae related isues, no related critter death, no testing water levels needed.

You can find dry fertilizer for sale at;
http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/
http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/
http://laaquaria.com/supplements.html
or use equivalent doses of Seachem products.

EI dosing for 30 gallon tank
50% weekly water change
If you have low levels of CA and Mg (find out what is in your tap water)
1/2 tsp GH booster once a week (w/water change only)
¼ tsp KN03 3x a week
1/16 tsp KH2P04 3x a week
On alternate days dose
1/16 tsp (CSM+B) Trace Elements 2-3x a week

Eight days later
50% weekly water change
Second verse, same as the first.

Nutrients, EI dosing, check.
Lighting, low-mid levels, check.

*DIY CO2* as is, can be fairly inconsistent at different stages of the yeast cycle. It will put out 5-7 psi of pressure optimally. Which is low to average output. If your lucky you will maintain a consistent output of CO2 for a few weeks. Most people switch out their reactors after a week to maintain optimal CO2 levels. What I like about yeast reactors, you are not going to turn a valve to increase CO2 levels. It forces anyone using yeast reactors to improve their method, the way CO2 is added and how the water circulation distributes it. You might move on to a pressurized system, but these little yeast reactors can teach efficiency and provide an opportunity to observe the symptoms of low level CO2 deficiency, aka algae.

Good luck and I hope this helps.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi GotTanked,

I thought you had gotten lost! LOL. Your plant list looks fine, some will probably thrive, others not so much....each tank is different. 

The Anubias nana might start small but get large under the right conditions, especially for a 30 gallon. One or two is probably plenty. Put the L. repens where it get good light if you want the upper leaves to have the best opportunity to turn reddish.

Once you find how much fun this hobby is, you will probably want to move from DIY CO2 to pressurized. I found my tank and regulator on Craigslist....$70. All I had to add was a needle valve.


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

You are right GotTanked, stay with the lower lighting levels until you understand your CO2 levels. Low light is much more forgiving and most of the problems with planted tanks stem from too much light and not enough CO2. Keep these ideas under your hat, if you want to get more performance from your DIY project.

Get two, one gallon jugs http://www.thegrape.net/browse.cfm/4,9379.html (these 1 gallon cubes take up less room then pop bottles and don't tip over). This way at the end of one fermentation, you have another jug ready to go in it's place.

Check for leaks were CO2 can escape and check again. The biggest issue people have with DIY reactors is sealing the opening around the hose coming from the reactor. If you come up with a great way to seal your reactor share it with others. I just got lucky doing it the old fashion way.

Run your CO2 to a modified powerhead/needlewheel. That way if you find your CO2 levels are sufficiently high you can set the powerhead on a timer and shut it down at night. You can also move the power head lower in the tank, or where ever you feel it improves the levels of CO2 this way.

Some symptoms of low or inconsistent CO2; problems growing CO2 dependent plants like Dwarf Hairgrass and the appearance of certain types of algae like BBA are CO2 related. A drop checker can tell you if your in the ballpark, but plants, algae and your fish will tell you more about your CO2 and water flow.

 My home brew lasts over three weeks.
Leave some room at the top of a one gallon container and add about,
3.7L tank water (lots of good stuff in fish waist to feed yeast)
4 cups (1L) sugar
(I find this works well with champagne yeast, it depends on the yeast you use how much sugar is used)
1mL pH stabilizer (pH ~5.2)
1/4-1/2 tsp Champagne yeast

1/16 tsp Fermaid K, for a well balanced diet.
(this stuff is the bomb for stuck fermentations)
Rehydrate and add Fermaid K after 1/3 sugar depletion or after one weeks time.

Fermaid K, is a blended yeast nutrient containing, Magnesium Sulfate, Inactive Yeast, Thiamine, Folic Acid, Niacin, Biotin, Calcium, vitamin B5 (Pantothenate) and DAP (Diammonium phosphate).
☯
Pantothenate helps to keep open important metabolic pathways to dramatically reduce the production of H2S and Magnesium improves yeast alcohol tolerance.

Most of these items can be found at any shop that offers brewing supplies. Look around on the link for the Grape and Granary for more ideas and information on yeast. http://www.thegrape.net/browse.cfm/2,1223.html

Sorry for the long post, but I do hope it helps.


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## GotTanked (Jun 12, 2010)

Tug, that first post was quite an informative wall of text  Right now a lot of that is beyond my scope of understanding/testing. I was hoping to Keep It Simple (because I'm) Stupid, and stick with Flourish/Root Tabs, but I suppose that I could dive all the way in... blah. One of my concerns with EI is the 50% water change. My water swings in pH from 7.6 to 8.4 in the 24 hours following a water change, so I get concerned that large-ish WCs like 50% may stress the fish.

I need to price out dry ferts vs Seachem macro ferts, for initial fees. Although I understand the ferts per dollar heavily weighs in favor of dry fertilization, I would like to start small (investment-wise). Any thoughts here?

SA, thanks for the confirmation on plant selection.

To both of you, regarding CO2, I have read many places about the shortfalls of the DIY system, but right now the price of just the plants is making me bite my nails :lol: Plus DIY is fun! Tug, that second post was quite informative as well  I will keep it as a reference when I am ready to set up my system.

Blah, I wish I could just throw money at my fish tank. I'd have a drop checker to monitor how well the DIY CO2 is doing, but if I could afford that I'd probably have injected CO2 anyways  Money is really tight and I am having a hard time justifying spending this much on plants and fish. I know deep down that it really makes me happy, so I do it, but geeze louise.


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

If money is an issue then go with the dry ferts. One pound of KNO3 will cost around $3.00 and last about one year, longer if you use less then EI recommended doses. KNO3, KH2PO4, CSM+B and GH booster (you may not even need the GH booster) all for less the $40 to cover all of your dosing needs for over a year. About the cost of three months worth of Seachem product. _A water quality report from the local water authority should tell you how much Ca and Mg is in your drinking water if your not sure about adding GH booster or Equilibrium._

With your light, you could dose less, maybe dose NPK & Trace every 14 days or so.


> ¼ tsp KN03 2x every 14 days
> 1/16 tsp KH2P04 2x every 14 days
> 1/16 tsp (CSM+B) Trace Elements 2x every 14 days
> GH booster or Equilibrium?


Because, as you start to add CO2 the demand for NPK will increase as plants start to grow. When one nutrient is no longer limiting (in this case CO2) the demand for all the other nutrients will increase. That is how lower levels of light seam to help limit the demand for nutrients, by slowing down plant growth. With low light, dose less, change water less often (maybe 10% every month). It can be done. Water parameters for nonlimiting NPK would be 5-10ppm of nitrate, about 1-2ppm of phosphate, and about 10-20ppm of potassium. Trace and minerals are a little more complicated and harder to test for. That is the advantage to EI, no need to test nutrient levels and no guess work.

I think the weekly 50% water changes have been well thought out. My water from the tap is around a pH of 7.8 and drops to about 6.0 and I have not had a problem with large water changes related to pH. The water in the tank is not going to change that much in a weeks time, but it's still a good question you have. One I haven't really got an answer for. When a drop in the pH is from adding CO2 as in my case, a 50% WC every week has not caused any problems.

eep:


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## GotTanked (Jun 12, 2010)

Well, I suppose the next step is researching what specific dry ferts I will need. I know you posted them, but KNO3, KH2PO4, CSM+B and GH booster, are all greek to me. Before I feel comfortable purchasing, I need to know 

By the way, here is my water quality report: http://sunnyvale.ca.gov/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=MTHxEDqnIQk=&tabid=565

I have trouble understanding it, because the water comes from two sources at an odd ratio (I think like 87/13 or 83/17, something silly like that). Maybe somebody could help?


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

GotTanked said:


> That's the size tank I have (36" 30gal). Thanks for the reply again  I think I'll stick with the lower light for now.
> 
> Okay, so I'll start off with Flourish and DIY CO2. Do I need root tabs for stem plants like wisteria, or do they get nutrients from the water column? Same question for cryptocornes... I have pool filter sand, inert substrate.
> 
> Edit: I can't rep you, but you sure deserve it!


Crypts get nutrients from the water column quite efficiently. However, very low light and high CO2 can cause melting in crypts (or at least in _C. wendtii_ and _C. cordata_). I observed melting in a 29 gallon tank with only one 20 watt T12 fluorescent light when I started adding CO2. There was no melting without the CO2 for over a year, but growth was slow and sparse. When I started adding CO2 there was increased growth and even a bit of pearling, and then the meltdown started after about a week. I stopped the CO2, and the tank went back to the way it was: slow and sparse. Then I put on three 20 watt T12 lights and added CO2. This time growth was rapid with no melting, and the plants filled up the tank space and reached the surface.


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

*CO2, last word of advice.*
Adding CO2 is tricky. A sudden drop in the levels of CO2 (oops, I forgot to change out my yeast reactor this week) can be a big problem for plants. Stay on top of it.

*More about nothing... Blah.*
First, maintain a non limiting level of the three macro nutrients, NPK. Determining the dose to maintain those levels will be more difficult because of your 10% water changes. APC has the Fertilator to tell you what ppm you are adding with each dose. It lists Seachem products as well as CSM+B and the other ferts like KNO3. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilator.php

Bad news is, it can't tell you what you have in the water and hobby grade testing is unreliable. The best way to judge your dosing levels is from observing your plants for nutrient deficiency. Hariom, here at APC, and others are working on a nutrient deficiency chart:http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...y-diagram.html worth a look see.

What ever you do keep track of the changes you make. If you are not seeing any signs of deficiency then slowly reduce the amounts of fertilizer you add every three weeks until you see signs of a problem and go back to a previous dose. Most plant related deficiencies are CO2 related.

*A little more information about dry fertilizer... Blah*

1/4 tsp KNO3, (potassium nitrate) 2x every 14 days
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_nitrate
Two macro nutrients in one. Other sources of N, fish waist, fish food and your tap water (about 17ppm, if I'm reading the WQR correctly). Wow, about one weeks worth of EI dosing right out of your tap, but you are only changing 10% of the water when you do a WC. You can still dose KNO3, but should adjust the dose as you see necessary, maybe start with only 1/8 tsp (4ppm) when you do a WC.

KH2PO4, (Monopotassium phosphate)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopotassium_phosphate
Other sources of P, fish waist, fish food and your tap water(< 1ppm). So adding 1/16 tsp KH2P04 2x every 14 days is a good option, IMHO. It is hard to dose less then 1/16 tsp. Another option might be to dose less often, if you are heavy handed when feeding your fish.

1/16 tsp CSM+B, Trace (micro nutrients) 2x every 14 days
Fe 7% Mg 1.50% Cu 0.1% B 1.18%
Mn 2% Zn 0.4% Mo 0.06% Co 0.00%

Comparison Of Trace Products - James' Planted Tank
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/traces.htm

*GH booster*
1/4-1/2 teaspoon of SeaChem Equilibrium once a week.
GH boosters rule out any K+, Ca, Mg issues you might have. The major ingredient in GH boosters is Potassium Sulfate (K2SO4). Potassium aids in the adsorption of phosphate and nitrate. With higher levels of nitrate from the tap water and fish waist and relatively low levels of phosphate (K+) from your tap and fish waist, it is the main reason I would suggest adding GH booster.

* After having said all that,* Seachem Flourish, root tabs and Equilibrium might still be the best option for you, but they will not increase the levels of nitrate or phosphate significantly. If you have a lot of fish, feed heavy, stick to your water changes the way you have been, you might not need to increase those levels. However, adding CO2 will increase the plants requirements and % uptake.


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

HeyPK,
Interesting what happened to your crypts. I think it may have had more to do with the sudden change in CO2, but it would be an interesting question. 1.3wpg of T5HO is a lot more light then 0.7wpg of T12, about 3x more light. And, I believe GotTanked has an additional 39w actinic. That should be plenty of light. PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation). http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

I was giving that warning about CO2, crypts and very low light because I have never seen it mentioned anywhere else. I have seen it happen twice, and the second time I kept the CO2 high after the crypts started melting, and the melting continued day after day until most of the leaves were gone. My observation conflicts with articles by Ole Pedersen and others in The Aquatic Gardener that say that CO2 fertilization is nothing but good at all light levels. That may be true for the majority of aquarium plants, but I am convinced that these crypts (wendtii and cordata) are an exception.


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

Hello again,
GotTanked got me to thinking about pH and 50% water changes. A good , honest question and I needed some time to think about there relationship. I hope no one minds if I just post a link to the answer and quote one comment about pH and KH by Tom Barr.


> If they have not changed their water much in the last 6 months, might not be good, but measure the KH/GH, not pH.
> These are more relevant than pH.
> 
> So if they have not done much changes........have them do a few 25% changes, say 2x a week, then go for a 50%.


The full version ❦ http://www.barrreport.com/showthrea...-large-weekly-water-changes?p=52552#post52552

GotTanked, without injecting CO2 planted tanks are better off if the plants acclimate to stable CO2, what ever the amount. Large, weekly water changes can cause CO2 levels to fluctuate drastically and fewer, smaller water changes are a better option for the plants. So, It depends on which road your on. Adding CO2 or not and how much CO2 and fertilizer you use. Steady, constant levels of CO2 at DIY levels (low), limiting the doses of fertilizer and fewer water changes are an option. Maybe even a good one for now and then there is EI.


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## GotTanked (Jun 12, 2010)

Well, after my second long break, I have just ordered my plants, NPK, CSM +B, CO2-proof tubing, and I am just waiting.

Tug, I want to thank you. Although your posts confused and frightened me  once I got the idea of what NPK and CSM +B meant, I realized you actually posted very good info, in a very personalized way!

With that said, I think I will go the route of EI dosing with a 50% weekly water change, because you have alleviated my worry about PH swing.

On the other side, I believe I will need a buffer for my water. I finally got a GH/KH test kit, and my water is 2 dKH, and 196.9ppm GH. Quite a disparity, wouldn't you say? Does anybody have an idea of a good buffer for my tank?

So, once I get the plants, should I start with 1/2 EI dosing? With only 39W T5, I don't think I should go full EI...


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

Ah shucks. :yo:
I don't always know what I am doing. I still have two bags of GH booster sitting around because I ordered it without knowing I had plenty in my tap water. EI should be tailored to the water you have.

One change to EI you should consider is the level of nitrate you need, based on your water quality report. With weekly water changes you might not need any. Check your nitrate levels before and after a 50% water change. If they never drop lower then 8 -10ppm you have plenty of N and can drop it or at least reduce the dose appropriately. I like to keep nitrates between 10-20ppm when adding CO2. Nitrate (NO3) levels above 40ppm can cause fish health issues.

Next, I confess your water quality report is confusing, particularly because it is a mix of well water and surface water http://sunnyvale.ca.gov/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=MTHxEDqnIQk=&tabid=565 but your Ca and Mg levels look fine, plenty of both. So, no GH booster.

What you should dose to start;
1/16 tsp Monopotassium phosphate (KH2P04), 3x a week
1/8 - 1/4 tsp Potassium Sulfate (K2SO4) for K+, 3x a week
1/16 tsp CSM+B, 3x a week



GotTanked; said:


> I believe I will need a buffer for my water. I finally got a GH/KH test kit, and my water is 2 dKH, and 196.9ppm GH. Quite a disparity, wouldn't you say? Does anybody have an idea of a good buffer for my tank?
> 
> So, once I get the plants, should I start with 1/2 EI dosing? With only 39W T5, I don't think I should go full EI...


Dissolved CO2 levels have no effect on KH. IME, buffering your water would not be necessary.
As always, subject to approval and comments from the many EI/CO2 overlords.


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## GotTanked (Jun 12, 2010)

I will just monitor pH closely I guess, no big problem. If the need for a KH buffer arises I can get baking soda easily.

My stuff is in the mail


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## GotTanked (Jun 12, 2010)

tug said:


> What you should dose to start;
> 1/16 tsp Monopotassium phosphate (KH2P04), 3x a week
> 1/8 - 1/4 tsp Potassium Sulfate (K2SO4) for K+, 3x a week
> 1/16 tsp CSM+B, 3x a week


Hey,
I just got my plants today!  I might make a build thread later (if that's common on these forums). Anyway, I am curious because I bought KNO3 and KH2PO4. After putting them in (and starting my DIY CO2) I dosed 1/6tsp KNO3 and 1/6 tsp KH2PO4. I see why you suggested lowering my N input (from my WQR) but actually testing my N levels out of tap has been ~5. That said, do you think KNO3 is the way to go? Is K2SO4 primarily for K to replace KNO3?

Tomorrow I will start dosing CSM+B  I am so freakin excited!

Here's a short video:

Tank Video because no youtube embed is allowed.


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

I like that layout.

1/16 is a little low. It depends on your plants % uptake. Maybe 1/8 tsp and check your nitrate again at the end of the week. If your nitrate levels are around 10-15ppm before the WC your fine. Each 1/8tsp dose should give you about 3.5ppm of NO3. The recommended dose for 20-40 gallon tanks with high light/CO2 and lots of plants would be 1/4 tsp (7ppm) x3. You can vary the dose, or you can dose less often. Here is one of Wet's fun applications for calculating the accumulation of stuff over time, http://wet.biggiantnerds.com/ei/con_v_time.pl



GotTanked; said:


> Is K2SO4 primarily for K to replace KNO3?


Correctomondo, if you already have a high source of N from fish, etc. K2SO4 maintains the K+ levels lost if you're not dosing KNO3. What is nice about KNO3 is it provides both N and K+. Potassium helps plants transport needed N & P.

Have fun.


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## GotTanked (Jun 12, 2010)

I am dosing what I assume to be 1/6 (not 1/16) because the smallest measurement I have at this time is 1/4. I am trying to get as close to halfway filled as possible, but I don't know if it's quite right.

Anyway, I will check my nitrate before the water change. I am also dosing 1 tsp ammonia daily, maybe I should lay off on the KNO3 while I'm still cycling? Although since I don't have fish, I don't care how high my N levels are.


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

This is were my inexperience comes into play. I've only cycled planted tanks and not too many at that. IME, add a couple of guppies and let the plants cycle the tank. Drop the guppies into a neighbors pond when through with them. [smilie=b:

Those small measurements (1/16tsb) can be a PITA. I make stock solutions to get around it. The 1/6tsp of KNO3 should work fine. You might even be ok with 1/4tsp. As long as the nitrates don't go over 20ppm.

As an example, stock solution of KH2PO4 for 30 gallon tank
500mL of distiled water
And, 6tsp of KH2PO4
5mL dose ~ 2ppm PO4
1/16tsp dry dose ~ 2ppm PO4

[I]Calculations were from Wet's Nutrient Calculator, http://calc.petalphile.com/[/I]


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

There is no "fishless cycling" really in a planted tank. 
http://www.barrreport.com/showthrea...g-a-fishless-cycle?highlight=fishless+cycling


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## GotTanked (Jun 12, 2010)

Although planted tanks can "silent cycle" the bacterial cycle is still present, so I will be dosing ammonia anyways until I can get my fish  It can't hurt unless I get algae, and hopefully the dosing/CO2 will keep that in check.

My plants look a little ragged. Willow moss is brown, my anubias petites are yellow/brown and withered on most leaves (although the rhizome looks strong and green). My larger anubias nanas have some holes in the leaves.

My Java Ferns are okay, but showing some brown spotting. Crypts appear limp and melting (at least that is expected). I also have some Brazilian Pennywort that is floating, and looks a little pale/fragile.

The only plant that looks fully green and happy is my Water Wisteria, but that hasn't really displayed growth.

My question is, how long of an "adjustment" period should I expect before I start thinking about deficiencies? Is there something I should be doing aside from dosing/controlling lighting?


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

After adding CO2, I saw a change in the plants "feel" after a week. The rest (color, brown spotting) might take a little more then two weeks, pruning older damaged leaves, etc.

Mosses take some time to adjust before they take off. Wisteria will grow quickly floating on the surface. Float it, let it grow out and then plant the cuttings. If the video shows your total plant mass you need more plants. Something about plants is that the more you have the better they seam to do.

EI dosing should rule out nutrient deficiencies. While your plants are adjusting you can reduce the number of doses to only two times a week and you would likely still have non-limiting nutrients. So, CO2/O2, light, water flow, pruning, and biomass are the focus. Keep dosing EI, stop dosing ammonia (or at least reduce the dose to 1/4 tsp twice a week) and add more plants. When you stock your tank, just add the fish gradually to give the biological filter time to adjust to the new bioload.

Just my two cents. I hope it helps.


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## GotTanked (Jun 12, 2010)

Okay, I will pick up some more stem plants (hopefully like L. repens, and more wisteria) tomorrow when I get my fish!


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## GotTanked (Jun 12, 2010)

Still no more stem plants, I ordered some and the LFS should have them Tuesday 

In the meantime I've really upped my CO2!

I went from this...









To this!




The middleman bottle is empty to catch spills


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