# Dennis's fertilizing thread



## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

I am starting this thread as a way of sharing my experiences with fertilizing my particular aquarium. I have been keeping a journal of observations, experiments and experiences for the last 3 months. I have also been maintaining a spreadsheet of dosing and text results using Lamotte and other calibrated test kits. Once this thread gets going I will post a detailed summary of my experiences but first, I'd like to share a photo and get your thoughts on what the plant growth indicates. I know it may seem odd to show a photo without any background but I want to try considering the situation without any preconceived notions of the situation. This is for my benefit as well as yours.

So first, what is indicated by the photos below? Think of it like a puzzle and let us see what we work out.

_Rotala sp._ colorata:









Top view of R. colorata:









_Ranunculus inundatus:_









and finally, _Rotala sp. _"Green":


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## John S (Jan 18, 2005)

first pic lack of co2 and the bottom pic lack of nitrates


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Why?


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Based on the _Ranunculus_, I'd say your micros are short. But the problem with not having more background information is that there can be several possible causes for some issues. I hardly ever use test kits any more, but any changes I make are based on what I know is going into the tank.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

The Rotala colorata deformity looks like a result of inconsistency and shock.


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## trong (Aug 8, 2006)

i'll guess,,, Ca dificiency but it could be lots of things


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## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

So Dennis, you ever going to enlighten us on what you have found to cause this type of stunting?  Im personally really curious to hear your findings, and see where you are at now in terms of dosing.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

The stunting you show on the colorata is an on-going issue in my tanks with A. reinickii. It will grow fine, then for no apparent reason, it will stunt. After about 2 weeks of no growth, it will send out healthy shoots from another node and continue to grow fine until it stunts again. In my case, I had always blamed hard water high in Ca, low on Mg for the problems. Addition of Mg seems to help, but has never stopped its occurrence long term.

I'd love to hear what/if you discovered your problems' cause(s).


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

OK, sorry for not updating on this like I should have. I originally wanted to see what people thought in an unbiased way, hence the lack of background info. At the time those photos were taken, my parameters were as follows:
NO3- 0ppm and had been for several days. For at least a week prior to that, NO3 levels were >10ppm.
PO4- levels between 3-5ppm
CO2- yellow in drop checker by late/mid-day with kH solution of 5 degrees (lots of pearling late day)
Ca elemental- ~140mg/l (From Lamotte kits. approx because readings from 1month earlier)
Mg elemental- ~28mg/l (From Lamotte kits. approx because readings from 1month earlier)
My dosing has varied from time to time but I always stick with a routine for 2-3 weeks before changing it. However, for the week prior to the photos I had stopped dosing NO3, 1mg/l PO4 4x week, 5.9mg/l K 4x week, 5ml Flourish 3x week and 1.6mg/l Fe weekly. From the time of the photo on I dosed PO4 and K the same, added 5mg/l NO3 that day and 2mg/l every other day after. I also increased my Flourish dose to 10ml 3x week. For the next week I averaged 1.17mg/l uptake of NO3 daily. (based off calibrated Lamotte kit). I do 40%water changes every 7th day.

The new growth of Rotala colorata has very much improved though any stems that were stunted continue to grow stunted. New shoots from the same stem grow healthy and new shoots from previously healthy stems grow fine. It is only the growth from previously damaged apical meristems that remains deformed in Rotala colorata. Interestingly, low NO3 seemed to cure the stunting of Polygonum sp. and as soon as I dosed 5mg/l NO3, deformed growth returned.

I have learned how NO3 deficiency looks and it appears as holes in leaves that are approx 1 week old. Bylxa japonica is an excellent visual indicator of NO3 deficiency as new growth starts very red then new growth becomes small, weak and pale. On the other hand, my natural color cherry shrimp population is loving the low NO3 levels and the tank is overall cleaner, the water is clearer and I have only slight amounts of spot algae on the glass.

Some internet reading and research has led me to a few ideas as to why the stunting still exhists:


 High K blocking N (but N is mobile???)
also: High N/low K favors vegetative growth; low N/high K promotes reproductive growth (flower, fruit); calcium excess impedes uptake of potassium 

High P blocking Zn (Young leaves are very small, sometimes missing leaf blades; short internodes; distorted or puckered leaf margins; interveinal chlorosis) or Co (essential for N fixation)
Boron deficiency (very immobile- death of apical buds)
Just for fun I may try to find an easy boron source. I have also started a new plan as the stunting seems to occur at lower NO3 levels than previous since the addition of extra K. Nothing I read would indicate that the problems i see are associated with a micronutrient excess. I will try to get new measurements of hardness ions.

In the end, I only have issues with 3 plants that I grow currently: Rotala colorata, Polygonum sp and Rotala nahjenshen. Well, Bylxa japonica also but only if NO3 levels are zero. The other three plants I cannot solve the problem


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

dennis said:


> [/LIST]Just for fun I may try to find an easy boron source. I have also started a new plan as the stunting seems to occur at lower NO3 levels than previous since the addition of extra K. Nothing I read would indicate that the problems i see are associated with a micronutrient excess. I will try to get new
> 
> 
> > You could try using a bit of Borax. It should be available in the cleaning supply section of most stores. Here's a link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Thanks for the suggestion Kelley. I may also stop by CVS and see if I can get Boric acid.

Here are a couple pics from this evening. As always, please excuse the quality<blush>. In the fisrt photo, that deformed stem of Rotala colorata on the right is the exact same stem as in my original post. You'll notice that it has barely grown while there has been ~5" of growth of sideshoot stems around it. Nothing above the original stunting point will grow really ( the is 1-2" of new growth past the point of stunting but it is all poor and deformed) while sideshoots from the same stem, but before the point of stunting, grow much better.










This next photo shows holes in the leaves of Rotala marcanda "Green". The holes are in growth that was new/formed at the time of the last NO3=0ppm condition. The affected leaves develop holes and there is some yellowing between the veins, not to apparent in the photo. I will try to get a better photo later. I am not saying it is caused by NO3=0 but that it is in growth from the time period.










Anymore thoughts now?


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Boric acid seems less bad for me and th aquarium inhabitants...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boric_acid


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Here is a better photo of Rotala macranda "Green" exhibiting nutrient deficiency. Ignore the snail fest. I believe the holes are a secondary condition. You can see a leaf in the very middle of the photograph that has some distinct yellow areas between the veins. It is possible the the holes themselves are mostly snail damage but if so, they are targeting weak, damaged tissue that resulted from a deficiency. From my reading, I do not believe this is a result of Boron or Zinc deficiency. It seems to agree with N deficiency for that period and if the plant is reallocating N fromo "older" growth, it seems logical to me that more recent older growth that is already low in N would be quickly stripped of mobile nutrients. Thoughts?


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## John S (Jan 18, 2005)

my bad dennis i just got a new computer and and those plants in the last 2 pictures has good green color lol but that last picture really looks like something is missing.


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## detlef (Dec 24, 2004)

Bert H said:


> The stunting you show on the colorata is an on-going issue in my tanks with A. reinickii. It will grow fine, then for no apparent reason, it will stunt. After about 2 weeks of no growth, it will send out healthy shoots from another node and continue to grow fine until it stunts again.


Looks like inconsistency to me. Are you on a weekly dosing routine or may be twice a week? If so try fertilizing daily and see if it helps. Repeated stunting and regrowth appears to result from instability of water parameters.

Best regards,
Detlef


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