# Small Crypts



## keef

All,

I am wanting to add some crypts to a 7 gallon bowfront tank. The substrate is eco-complete. I have a 14 watt regular flo and no added Co2. I currently have crypt willissi and parva. What other varieties of crypts stay fairly small? I was considering wendti but heard a lot of varieties of wendti get large. Does tonkinensis stay small? I will want crypts for the back and foreground of the small tank.



Keith


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## HeyPK

C. parva is, of course, the smallest. The various hybrids with parva that now go under the name of C. x willisii are usually next in size. These used to go by the names, C. nevillii and C. lucens. Most of the other crypts get from six inches to over a foot tall. C. undulata may be a little smaller than the others in this category. Some of the wendtii species get over a foot tall. C. aponogetifolia can get leaves two to three feet long. 

My limited experience with C. tonkinensis has been that it died on me before I could get it started. From the pictures, it appears to have very thin leaves, but not especially short leaves. Keith, do you know of a source for tonkinensis? I would like to try it again.


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## Geo

I am in the same exact position as you!

7 gallon AGA minibow, eco complete, but I am running 26watts of lighting in mine.

I have C. parva, willisi, lutea, lucens and wendtii in mine right now. 

I am doing a little bit of re-arranging, and I am adding C. walkerii to mine if the auction works out. I figure it'll fill in the back and right side nicely.

If my wendtii starts getting too big, I'm going to pull it and replace it with something else, that simple. Hopefully my LFS did good with keeping smaller plants.


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## MiamiAG

Paul,

Pets-warehouse claims to have tonkinensis. Not sure if it truly is tonkinensis.


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## keef

I purchased some tonkinensis awhile ago from Lowcoaster on Aquabid. He sometimes gets some rare plants. It didn't last very long, but I thought I might try it again. The 7 gallon might not be a good tank for it, but I could try it in my 30 long. 

Geo, we have almost exactly the same set up. The only othe plants in it is some petite anubias, floating hornwort and java moss. I am going to add some narrow leaf java fern as well. I wanted to keep the lighting dim, because I plan on adding Axelrod rasboras. 

Keith


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## HeyPK

*C. tonkinensis*



> Pets-warehouse claims to have tonkinensis. Not sure if it truly is tonkinensis.


I think I will monitor AquaBid, instead. I ordered from Petswarehouse once a long time ago and had problems with being over-billed. I described the problems on APD, and I am lucky that I am not one of the long suffering defendents.


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## MiamiAG

Agreed.

I find it hard to believe the crypt stock they claim to have.


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## Sir_BlackhOle

Is 30watts incandescent lighting in a ten gallon tank enought light to grow some of the smaller crypts?


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## Raul-7

Petswarehouse went out of business a long time ago, Robert Novak decided to close down the company after his lawsuit(s) began. Many people complained about the company's bad service (don't sue me! ), his site had lots of rare Crypt's. I even saw C.bullosa on the list, but I never did order...


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## BobAlston

Raul-7 -

Not out of business. Look at

www.pets-warehouse.com


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## gnome

Even under medium light with DIY CO2 and Flourite, I found C. wendtii 'Tropica' to stay pretty small. I know it's healthy because of the shape and color of the leaves, so I'm sure it's not stunted or anything. I'm actually keeping one in my 2.5-gallon tank right now and it's looking beautiful. It's towards the front, but off to the side so it doesn't look overly misplaced. In a 7-gallon with C. parva and C. willisii, the Tropica crypt should be placed somewhere behind these, and be sure not to let the C. parva get shaded over, since they're a species that requires relatively strong light. Also, the color would be a nice contrast, with the parva and willisii being green and the Tropica being a reddish-brown. 

I'd suggest C. pygmaea, but it may not be available where you are. I'm not sure about their potential size, but it looks to me slightly bigger than C. parva (the leaves are wider), but easier to grow, and the leaves look mostly green with slight rusty-red highlights. It's a beautiful, adorable plant. Seems a tad less resilient than wendtiis but definitely easier than parva. 

-Naomi


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## MiamiAG

Naomi... are you saying you have pygmaea?


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## gnome

Sure do! I've purchased two bunches of it and it's taking a while for the new leaves to grow out, but I think they'll be okay. Well, they *better* be, at $10 per booger-sized bunch :shock: . 

-Naomi


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## aquaverde

Would you care to share your source? I'm willing to bet we could put a hurtin' on their stock :lol:


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## keef

I would also like to know where you can get C. wendtii 'Tropica' .



Keith


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## gnome

I got C. pygmaea and C. wendtii 'Tropica' at Albany Aquarium (Albany, CA; not NY) - a LFS that receives plant shipments from the Far East every two weeks. The owner (Guy) is nearly impossible to get a hold of because he's almost never there, but you can try leaving a message with one of the employees: 510-525-1166. 

For a number of people, I've been buying the plants they've been wanting, sending them, and getting reimbursed for the plants, tax, and shipping. Unfortunately, I've been losing a lot of my own money by doing this  so I'm more reluctant to offer this "service" these days. Besides, the owner has told me that he is willing to ship plants. So it's just a matter of getting in touch with him. 

They're expecting another shipment early next week (Sunday or Monday). I did see two bunches of C. pygmaea left as of this past Monday. They've been selling well, so I'm sure they'll be getting more in the next shipment. 

-Naomi


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## aquaverde

Albany Aquarium gets a lot of airplay on the net, but they must not have a site. A quick Google only got me an aquarist's page rating the place with contact information. Calling from NY I wouldn't want to have to make a series of calls to locate the owner. Thanks for relaying this info- I'm sure there are those here that can take advantage of it better than I can.

You shouldn't be losing any money picking up stuff for folks, Naomi. I'm very sorry to hear about that.


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## Raul-7

Gnome, since Albany is about 400miles away(according to mapquest)..could I possibly buy Crypts from you when I need them?


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## gnome

Raul-7 said:


> Gnome, since Albany is about 400miles away(according to mapquest)..could I possibly buy Crypts from you when I need them?


LOL! Sure - it's really no problem. The money loss incurred was my own fault in one case. I purchased and sent over $15 worth of plants and I told the guy that I didn't expect any payment for anything that didn't survive. Well, the plants reached him in two days but the weather on the receiving end was freezing and everything disintegrated within days after being planted in his tank. I kept good on my word, though. To be fair, he offered to pay, but since I already gave a verbal guarantee, I said don't bother. About a week later, I sent another guy some plants and I guess he forgot to pay me. In that case, it was less than $6 worth of plants (including the tax) so I decided it wasn't worth it to get on his case about it (I HATE even broaching the subject of getting paid). Anyway, I resolved not to guarantee the condition of the plants any more, and if I don't recognize the person from any of the forums I frequent, I can always request payment first. My husband has a PayPal account, too, although gosh-darn PayPal always takes out a big chunk of whatever's put in there :evil: .

If you're looking for a particular species, let me know and I'll ask the manager at Albany Aquarium if they have it in stock or to try and order it. If it's something that Oriental Aquarium carries, I can *almost* guarantee that they can get it. If not, then it's a crapshoot. You should probably let me know the maximum amount you're looking to pay for a portion of the plant. The shop's not cheap by any means.

Truth is, it costs me $3.75 MINIMUM to even get to the store and back home, but I don't tack it on to the reimbursement charge because I'd probably be going at least every two weeks regardless of whether I'm picking something up for somebody or not. In any case, this hobby is a financial drain no matter how I look at it... (violins start playing). I'm happy just to get back what I'm owed. If I can be assured of this, I'm glad to pick up and ship plants to my fellow hobbyists  .

Just PM me about which Crypts you're looking for and I'll see what I can do.

-Naomi


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## Phil Edwards

Florida Aquatic Nurseries sells C. wendtii "Tropica" under the name "Bronze Wendtii". Just about any LFS that has dealings with one of their distributors can get them.


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## gnome

Hey... Lookee what I just found!

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?liveplantsr&1077582064

That's actually a good price for it, too. Mine was $9.99 for the same size bunch. Uh - am I allowed to post a link to an auction? Sorry if that's not permitted.

-Naomi


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## MiamiAG

Naomi,

Is that you bidding on the pygmaea? Anybody else here bidding on that plant? If you are, I'll back out. Just let me know.

Don't want to bump the price any higher.


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## gnome

Nope - not me! It's nice of you to ask, though. I already have some. 

Go for it!

-Naomi


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## HeyPK

That's me you outbid, Art! I am a poor man, your majesty, and can't keep up with you! Maybe you can send me a plant after they multiply. 

Actually, Naomi is sending me a couple of plants. Tell you what. I will try to grow them submersed, and you try at least some of your plants emersed.


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## MiamiAG

Sorry Paul!!


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## HeyPK

I know that the C. pygmaea will be in good hands, and that it will be distributed to other crypt hobbyists when it multiplies. It looks like a good aquarium plant, according to Jan Bastmeijer.


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## gnome

Oh my gosh, this was TOO funny! Sorry - I know there's some element of tragedy in there... Paul, I had no idea that it was you bidding on it. 

Art, it slipped my mind to tell you that I can get C. pygmaea for $9.99 per bunch. Tax is 8.25%. Shipping is $3.85. If the bid went over $10.81, you would be saving $$ if you got it from me. Then again, there's no guarantee that the shop has it in stock at the moment.

I thought it was weird that two people with 0/0 ratings were bidding on this plant... Paul, maybe change your AquaBid username to "CryptfanPaulK" :lol:. If you want some more, I can pick 'em up for you from the LFS when they get them in again. Just give the word and your wish is my command :wink:.

-Naomi


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## MiamiAG

Naomi,

That's OK. A few years ago I was ready to spend several hundred dollars on acquiring pygmaea and a few others directly from the Phillipines.


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## Gomer

FYI, my Aquabid user name is Gomer...hard to miss...so don't outbid me if you see me bidding on something 


Does anyone have pics of pygmaea emersed? how fast does it grow? how large?


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## HeyPK

Check out Jan Bastmeijer's page, http://users.bart.nl/~crypts/Gallery/pyg/pyg.html. He has some pictures of it growing emersed as well as submersed in streams.


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## jerseyjay

Ok Kids. Stop fighting over the auction.

Charley (the owner of the auction) is a friend of mine and is actively importing "exotic" plants from Singapore. You can get probably any plant from Oriental Plant Handbook. Sign up with him for distribution email and you will get updates once every couple weeks or so on new arrivals etc. 

Some of us, plant addicts, are on that list, Me, Carlos, Ghazanfar, Phil and many others.


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## Steve Pituch

*Charley's List*

Hi Jay,

How exactly do we get on Charley's list?

Steve Pituch


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## Phil Edwards

Send him an email.

[email protected]

I'm pretty sure that's it.


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## jerseyjay

*Re: Charley's List*



spituch said:


> Hi Jay,
> 
> How exactly do we get on Charley's list?


Steve,

Use the email that Phil posted. If you won't be able to get in contact, let me know.


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## Gomer

I tried that email but it bounced.


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## jerseyjay

This is the correct email.

[email protected]


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## aquaverde

closely resembles the tuning of a 6-string bass...
I see a theme...


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## plantbrain

I have some and it does well in both sub and emergent culture.
I had a few plants in the past as well.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## MiamiAG

Hey! What do you know. I was outbid at the last second for the pygmaea! Somebody paid $21.01 for a small bunch! Wow.


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## Gomer

Damn! THat is crazy! I think that if we have enough interest, perhaps we can try some sort of group buy on this plant from a distributor who can get it.

What do youthink?


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## tsunami

You know, you people can just email him to buy a bunch for 7-8$. 

Carlos


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## HeyPK

*C. pygmaea*

I have one plant that I got from Naomi. It has survived the bleach treatment in good shape, and should get established quickly.

Thanks, again, Naomi!!


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## oh-yeah

Try Grandaquatics.com for Crypt tonkenensis. They claim to have it plus some others. But sounds like a group buy, They are talking bundles and boxes etc.


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## aquaverde

What's the url for Grandaquatics.com? I can't seem to find the site.


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## oh-yeah

Whoops, Its Grandaquatic.com not Grandaquatics.com


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## aquaverde

thanks-


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## gnome

Gee, I didn't get any notifications for the last several posts in this thread. 

HeyPK - you're most welcome!!! I guess one of the pieces died  ...? I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but these guys do seem to be somewhat less hardy than your typical wendtiis. Something is finding mine to be particularly palatable, too. Every leaf shoot gets chewed before it unfurls. When the leaf finally does open up, it's got big ol' gaping holes. Then, there are the ones in the 2.5-gallon tank. The leaves remain tiny and green and the rate at which a new leaf develops is probably slower than the Anubias 'petit' in the same tank. DANG slow!

$21.01 is insane! 

My LFS got another shipment of them early last week. I picked up a bunch to send and they seemed pretty healthy. When I went back on Friday, they were badly melted. So it seems like they're best picked up and dealt with as soon as possible after the shipment arrives. I'm wondering what shape the auctioned bunch was in by the time the auction was over... I imagine the winner would have received nothing but some leafless rhizomes. I was extremely tempted to ask my LFS if they'd sell me some pieces for a reduced price. But my conscience didn't allow me to do it.

If anybody else here wants some, I think the LFS is expecting another shipment of C. pygmaea in a week; if not, in three weeks. I'd be happy to pick up and send. Just leave me a PM. But I can tell you now that it would be cheaper from Lowcoaster, if indeed he sells them for $7 or $8. 

-Naomi


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## bobo

Sorry to bust in here, but I've been out of the loop for awhile with houseguests. 

If you live in South Florida, Dec. through March can easily see your residence turn into a hotel in pretty short order. As a result, I've been preoccupied with catering to their wants and desires, which -- when added to the similar increase in activity at work, leaves me with little time for play.

Paul, I see you managed to get some albida without my help and it looks like the brown variety. I've got the green too if you want some of that.

I've ordered from Charley aka "lowcoaster" with good results. He apparently gets immediate access to fresh shipments coming over from Oriental Aquarium to the NYC area, so he's the best bet on the east coast. Albany no doubt gets the same material independantly from a west coast distributor.

Theoretically, many LFS and others can get Oriental's product but not directly. It first has to come to a distributor which then sorts out orders and forwards them to retailers who then sort out and mail them to us. Problem is, by the time it goes through all the middlemen, it arrives dead or in very poor shape. Fall and spring are the only time one has even half a chance going this route.

Charley's apparently able to pick up his orders as soon as they arrive from Singapore at the NYC area distributor for the east coast and he wastes little time in mailing them on to you. That makes all the difference.

Bobo


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## aquaverde

I recommend Charley aka Lowcoaster. I got C. pygmaea, tonkenesis, parva from him last week, all in great shape, nice portions. I'd say that's the way to go for anyone looking for pygmaea. I couldn't stuff any more plants in my crypt tank with a shoehorn. Now to see if I can grow 'em.


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