# BGA in a dry start tank - leave or remove?



## Rainbow (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi

My previous post somehow got deleted, mods please delete the previous thread, thanks.

My first (second now!) post here. Sorry it's long..I have had a bad start. Can you help me?

I have my first tank underway. After doing lots of research I decided to do a low tech soil based tank capped with moler clay (approx 1" of each). I also decided on the dry start method because I wanted to grow a carpet of hair grass first and thought that would be quicker with the dry start.

Since I planted my tank, the grass all started to go brown and die and small areas of white mould and BGA started to form (see pic). I now believe this happened as a result of A) over spraying B) I needed to seal the tank with plastic wrap to keep the humidity up and C) too long with lights on (16hrs).










Next I trimmed all the dead grass off to leave the greener growth (generally 2-10mm showing above substrate), and covered the tank with plastic wrap. Although this improved matters, the BGA (which is mostly green with darker patches of black/brown) has now spread across a large area of the substrate (see pics). The grass is slowly sending up new shoots where the algae is, but the grass seems to be dormant and fairly miserable looking (dead?) in the areas where there is no algae.


















As a result of all this, my lighting (1x58W T8 + 2x40W T8) period has been reduced to 9hrs, I am spraying a small amount every three days, and am airing the tank (removing the wrap) for 20 mins a day.

My main question is do I need to do anything about the BGA ? should I ignore it and let the dry start take it's course (I wanted to wait to let the grass form a carpet), or is it potentially choking the growth of the hairgrass and should be removed asap?

I'm not sure that the roots of the grass have properly taken hold yet. If I should remove the BGA (or kill it) what is the best approach? A blackout? fill? syphon? antibiotics?

Your advice much appreciated

Rainbow


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

The idea of a "dry start" is flawed all over.

Problem #1:
First of all both BGA and fungus will always be a problem. From what we see on the forums there is no good suggestion how to fight any of them in such a weird, moist, Oxygen rich environment. I've given practical working advice how to get rid of BGA and fungus many times. Do a search if you care. My advice is guaranteed to work. But before you fight BGA read the following points. They may change your mind about the whole thing.

Problem #2:
The light needed for the plants to grow well in a "dry start" tank is much, much more than what people normally start with. So much more that hardly anyone can afford/use so much light. And there will be issues with overheating from the lamps because of the height of the aquarium. Then later, when you fill the tank with water, you will need to reduce the light. All the "dry start" preparation now turns into another chapter of finicky maintenance because the environment radically changed all of a sudden. Both old and new kinds of algae are your enemies now.

Problem #3:
When you finally fill the tank with water the plants decide that this is a new environment and start to shed leaves, grow new leaves, adapt any way they can. Meaning that now you have to kick your maintenance into high gear. Nice. What did you gain by waiting to fill your tank with water for a month or so? Hope you have heard about invisible organics wreaking havoc in a planted tank. That is the main thing that you will be fighting because of all the transitions the plants will be going through. And please do not make the mistake of thinking that "proper" fertilization will take care of everything during that period.

Problem #4:
"Dry start" ignores the organisms and processes that must develop/take place in the substrate. It is all about plant roots. Give me a break. If you grow some plants hydroponically in AquaSoil and move them to a new tank WITH the AquaSoil you will see how well that works. Or if you grow some plants in mud for a long time and move them WITH the mud to your tank you will see how well that works too. Well, that is NOT because the plants developed nice roots only. It is because organisms and different processes have developed/took place in the substrate. Here's a funny fact: If you burn/destroy in some way the soil in your back yard it will take 200 (two hundred) years for it to restore itself. Here, in a month or so, you are trying to make miracles happen.

Problem #5:
Root development is the primary goal of the "dry start". But roots develop best in acidic environment. A substrate with a pH of 5.5 grows HC roots that you will never see with any other, higher Ph, or neutral substrate. "Dry start" doesn't mention any of that need for low pH.

Problem #6:
Some people may stubbornly defend the "dry start" approach despite the 5 things above. Such a situation is indeed a recurring problem in this hobby.


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## Rainbow (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi Niko

Thanks for your reply. 

When I started the DSM, I wasn't aware that these problems could/would occur and it all sounded straight-forward. I heard all the reasons for it but nothing against it, even after doing my research. 
Anyway, that's where I am now and have accepted the bad start. I just want to take right steps now to pick up my enthusiasm and get back on track.

Based on all these issues that you have mentioned, if you were in my shoes (a beginner, 3 weeks in with a tank full of algae), which of the following options would you opt for?

A) Remove the grass and gravel, wash gravel free of algae, replant grass and carry on with the DSM
B) Remove the grass and gravel, wash gravel free of algae, replant grass and fill
C) A or B above but replace the gravel.
D) try something else while the DSM is still underway (blackout or a treatment?)
E) Fill now then try to remove algae in some other way (blackout or a treatment?)
F) Fill now then try to remove algae manually by syphoning 
G) Something else..?

I would be interested and grateful to hear anyone's opinions.

Thanks

Rainbow


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

I agree with everything niko said above. In addition, the dry starting method grows plants slower than growing submersed since plants have to produce many more products when growing above water than they do below. They need a wax cuticle to prevent drying out, they need stiffer denser stems to prevent flopping over, larger roots to get all nutrients from and prevent being uprooted, stomata for their leaves to allow in O2 and CO2, etc... etc... faster growth is achieved submersed.

I think you should fill the tank and wait a bit before you siphon out the GSA. The algae won't kill anything by being there it just looks ugly. Likely the abrupt change from air to water will kill it off. If it doesn't you can usually siphon it out over time or kill it with antibiotics (though I am against non-medical uses of antibiotics). BGA doesn't usually persist like other types of algae, it seems to spring up and then disappear shortly after. 

The main thing is don't worry too much about it, in 3 or 4 weeks from now your tank is going to look great.


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## Rainbow (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi

Thanks, I am surprised to hear you say...


> dry starting method grows plants slower than growing submersed


...as I was led to believe that the whole point of doing the dry start was so that the plants would have more access to CO2 from the air and therefore grow to form a carpet more quickly.

So by flooding the tank I will not slow the growth of the grass at all? If so, then I agree that the whole DSM is a waste of time.



> Likely the abrupt change from air to water will kill it off.


Do you think it is likely to kill the grass off too? I was thinking of buying some more pots to replace the grass that appears to be dead before I flood the tank, but don't want to plant fresh grass if flooding it will then kill it all.

And the soil, how will I know when it is properly converted into an aquatic soil that is ready for fauna?
When the test kit shows 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite after flooding?

Thanks

Rainbow


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## Rainbow (Feb 25, 2013)

> you can usually siphon it out over time


Just out of interest, what sort of time frame? I am looking for a quick fix!



> in 3 or 4 weeks from now your tank is going to look great.


Thanks for the positive encouragement!

Rainbow


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