# Advice on tank with plain substrate



## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Hi all  ,

It's been a long time since I asked for advice on this forum......!!!!!!!!

I have a 50 gallon tank with the below details:
Plants : Anubias & Java ferns only
Light : 2 x 20 watt CFL daylight( I know its the worst lighting set up .........) )
Hardscape : 4 pieces of drift wood & some rocks
Substrate : 1 mm artificial black gravel only.
Fish : 12 cardinal tetras , 3 harlequin rasboras , 2 guppies, 4 flame gouramis.
Fertilizers : Aquanutramin(Micronutrients) & Aquaferomin(Iron) once a week during 25% water change.

Now.....

Its a healthy & well settled tank now(will soon post some pics),but I'am bored of seeing only the Anubias & ferns & wish to add more variety of plants into it.So pls advice what plants can I add to the current set up without disturbing anything & also some advice on my bad lighting set up.

Thanks in advance,
Ravi


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Cryptocorynes might work. Most any moss would work (Java, Flame, Christmas, Peacock...)


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

If it were my tank, I would put a couple pots (with soil) containing large reliable swordplants (_Echinodorus major_ and/or _E. bleheri_) into this 50 gal. I would not bury the pots in the gravel, at least until plants starting taking off. Make sure that the pots aren't too big for smallish plants starting out. That is, I would start out with 1/2 to 1 cup of soil and the rest sand or gravel in the pot. Since you'll have only a small volume of soil for this large tank, you don't have to worry that much about soil being "too fertile". A little extra phosphate in the soil should not hurt the tank, and it would make the swords very happy.


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Hi Dave & Diana,

Thanks a ton for your quick replies........

Do I need to improve my lighting?Currently it is less that 1 watt per gallon & no sunlight at all.

Also,I heard from an expert here that I can plant the plants directly in to the existing substrate as the fish poop,the decayed leaves & the ferts that I add is enough for the plants to grow as the tank is almost a year old,the substrate is mature. - Pls advice on this.

Thanks,
Ravi


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Could someone pls reply...............


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

What sort of lighting is available in India Ravi? The newer T5 Hight Output flourescent tubes are becoming more and more popular here in the United States. 

What are the dimensions of your aquarium?


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Hi Aaron,
The lights in my tank are normal white CFL bulbs(20watts).The dimension would be 42x18x18"(50 gallons).Finding Flourescent bulbs here is very difficult & they are very expensive.I know the lighting is no way enough for my tank.Iam getting lights to get it to 3 watts per gallon.Currently I have injected laterite paste into the substrate using a syringe to give my plants some good food .Have planted some Vals & Swords.Hope they do good.

Thanks,
Ravi


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

Yes, adding some more light to your tank will definitely help because the tank is so deep. Do you have good reflectors available or perhaps you can find some material to make good reflectors? That is usually a cheaper solution than buying more bulbs.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Your substrate depth is 1 mm? Are you sure? 

Even 1 centimeter would not be enough to grow rooted plants.

Diana's suggestion that you grow plants in pots is a good one. But before you transplant them, be sure that they have something to root in.

Good luck!

Bill


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Ooops......I'am sorry Bill.My mistake .....

I meant the size of the substrate is 1mm & 2.5" deep.

Aaron,
I got 2 x 65 watts CFL daylight bulbs & fitted them in.I think the light part is taken care of now .
Now,as the light has increased, I need to plant some fast growing plants to avoid a algae bloom in the tank.Could you please suggest some plants for plain substrate with Laterite paste injected in it with 10hrs of lighting a day & Aquanutramin(Micronutrients) & Aquaferomin(Iron) once a week during 25% water change.

Thanks,
Ravi


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Advices & suggestions pls..........


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

plantblr said:


> Aaron,
> I got 2 x 65 watts CFL daylight bulbs & fitted them in.I think the light part is taken care of now .
> Now,as the light has increased, I need to plant some fast growing plants to avoid a algae bloom in the tank.Could you please suggest some plants for plain substrate with Laterite paste injected in it with 10hrs of lighting a day & Aquanutramin(Micronutrients) & Aquaferomin(Iron) once a week during 25% water change.
> 
> Ravi


You've got enough light intensity, but PLEASE 10 hrs/day is not enough to get good plant growth. You need a daylength of 12-13 hours, especially for encouraging emergent and floating plants. I keep lights on from 7:30 AM to 9:30 PM with a 4 hr middle-of-the-day siesta. That way, my lights are only on 10 hrs, but the day length is 14 hours.

Laterite paste and all those added fertilizers? Maybe they will work; maybe not. But it sounds a little strange. For example, if you have a laterite substrate, which is rich in iron, there's really no need to add iron fertilizers to the water.


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Hi Diana,
Thanks a ton,
The laterite is not a substrate.Its just that I have injected the paste in some places at the bottom,which helps the rooted plants & additional iron is added to the water column because I have a lot of Anubias & Ferns.Now that I have incraesed the lights,I need to plant fast growers to avoid algae bloom.Pls advice some plants.Also picking up some Crypts from a friend this weekend.

Thanks
Ravi


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## Mr Fishies (Apr 9, 2006)

plantblr said:


> Hi Diana,
> Thanks a ton,
> The laterite is not a substrate.Its just that I have injected the paste in some places at the bottom,which helps the rooted plants & additional iron is added to the water column because I have a lot of Anubias & Ferns.Now that I have incraesed the lights,I need to plant fast growers to avoid algae bloom.Pls advice some plants.Also picking up some Crypts from a friend this weekend.


For fast growers, I have good luck with Hygro difformis and Ludwigia repens (both growing in my tank) with about 1.3 wpg lighting and they are both cheap and readily available here and they both grow very well. I keep the Hygro in it's own pot because it's root system gets big fast and pulling it up inside the tank disturbs a lot of substrate and is very messy - so I pull the whole pot/plant and work on that plant outside the tank.


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Hi All,
Its really difficult to find the cheap kind of potting soil with no fertilizers in my area. 
Now,my question is......Can I use the soil that i dig from the forest floor near my house.I found its moist & rich in decayed leaves.Its Black in colour.I thought I'll mix some Laterite & sand in it & then use it.Any advice & suggestions are welcome.

Many thanks
Ravi


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

plantblr said:


> Hi All,
> Its really difficult to find the cheap kind of potting soil with no fertilizers in my area.
> Now,my question is......Can I use the soil that i dig from the forest floor near my house.I found its moist & rich in decayed leaves.Its Black in colour.I thought I'll mix some Laterite & sand in it & then use it.Any advice & suggestions are welcome.
> 
> ...


Hi all,
You can see my current tanks pics on the link below.Will soon post the new pics with more planting done.Would appreciate if any advices & suggestions on scaping.......
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Thanks
Ravi


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Hi all,

Atlast I could find a nursery where he has Generic potting soil with leaf mold in it.
He also said that he has vermicompost which can be mixed with it.
Is it safe to use his combination of Generic potting soil with leaf mold + vermicompost,or only Generic potting soil with leaf mold will do?
If his mixture is safe,what should be the mixing ratio of vermicompost to the Generic potting soil with leaf mold?

Thanks
Ravi


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

plantblr said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Atlast I could find a nursery where he has Generic potting soil with leaf mold in it.
> He also said that he has vermicompost which can be mixed with it.
> ...


Any updates on this pls????????????????


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

plantblr said:


> I got 2 x 65 watts CFL daylight bulbs & fitted them in.I think the light part is taken care of now .
> Now,as the light has increased, I need to plant some fast growing plants to avoid a algae bloom in the tank.Could you please suggest some plants for plain substrate with Laterite paste injected in it with 10hrs of lighting a day & Aquanutramin(Micronutrients) & Aquaferomin(Iron) once a week during 25% water change.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ravi


Your new lighting source sounds good. However, I wouldn't use that much lighting until I had a large assortment of fast-growing plants ready to plant. For a 50 gal, I would definitely recommend _Echinodorus bleheri _(Amazon Sword) and _E. major_ (Rufffled Swordplant). But you will need many other species.

With that much light and weekly feeding of micronutrients, I suspect your tank will be vulnerable to algae. Thus, I would make an effort to get floating plants (frogbit, duckweed, or watersprite. If you are adding micronutrients weekly, then they should do well, but you need to increase the daylength to 12-13 hr. I've got all my tanks on a 14 hr day, but with a 4 hr afternoon siesta. That way, I'm getting good Water Sprite growth, saving electricity, and not heating up the water.

I'm not crazy about your substrate-- gravel injected with laterite paste. It might work, though, if you get enough of the right plants that like the temperature and water conditions in your tank.

Its a waste of time to recommend specific plants. For example, Elodea is a superbly fast-grower, but if you're running your tank at 80F or have a little copper in the water, it may quickly "kick the bucket". My advice has always been to start out with as many plants and different species as possible. There's no way to predict which ones will do well in your particular set up.

For example, I just reset up my 50 gal a few weeks ago with about 16 different plant species. The _Cryptocoryne cordata var blassi_, a somewhat difficult species, is growing like crazy whereas the _Ludwigia arcuata_, which was continuously overtaking another hobbyist's tank, has completely crashed [I threw it out when it started decomposing in the tank]. Meanwhile, the Riccia that came as a contaminant with the other plants is growing "full-steam". The two baby Ozelot swords, which didn't even have roots, are putting out big leaves and looking really nice.

To get all these plants for my aquarium, I invited fellow plant enthusiasts to come over. We visited, ate well, and traded plants. We've been doing this for years. It's a fun way to get plants.


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Hi all....

Back again with the pics after setting up my tank.Its been almost a month now that I have set it up.Sorry for the bad quality of the pics.Any suggestions & advices are welcome.You can find the pics on the link below.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Many thanks,
Ravi


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

After all the questions, I wasn't expecting such a nice tank.  Its lovely. 
Good going!


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Thank you Diana.........:heart:,

One more help pls.How can I paste pictures on the reply instead of pasting the URL's?

Thanks
Ravi


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Ravi,

The only way I know how to do it is the way I used for my recent 50 gal thread. My procedure:

When you're writing your reply, go to the *paper clip* icon at the top window:

Click on it

That should open a window that says "Manage Attachments"

You should see a choice that says "Upload files from your computer"

Use the *Browse* button to find your picture files on your computer

From there on, just follow the APC instructions for uploading.

However, you must make sure beforehand to condense the picture files to jpeg of less than 100 KB.

Some ordinary programs show you how to condense files for e-mail sending. I used one of these programs to condense my large picture files, and then I sent the pictures to myself in an e-mail. It took me a bit of tinkering to figure it out.

Good Luck! We'll want to see those pictures.


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Tried to load the pics on the reply.......


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Hi all,

Here are some updates as of 02nd Sep.
Check for the photos titled "As of 02/09/08".

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Thanks for seeing,
Ravi


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

it's beautiful


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Thanks mommyeireanne ,

Now I find small snails crawling all over the glass & plants .I think these are garden snails.I've been fishing :fish2: these manually in the morning before the lights are on,but they are breeding like crazy.Any solution for this?

Thanks
Ravi


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## gravy9 (Aug 28, 2008)

Awesome tank Ravi. BTW, my name's Ravi also from the Chicago area. Will try to contact you and stop by when I'm there to visit my brother. I would like to understand how the process is different in India.

I'm new to this hobby and am using Aaron's Mineralized substrate method (working on it) and have another tank using Walstad method. I've had the Walstad-method tank for about a month now and the nitrates are starting to slow down.

regards,
Ravi


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

plantblr said:


> Thanks mommyeireanne ,
> 
> Now I find small snails crawling all over the glass & plants .I think these are garden snails.I've been fishing :fish2: these manually in the morning before the lights are on,but they are breeding like crazy.Any solution for this?
> 
> ...


Yes. Just let them be.

Snails are good. They clean the leaves of algae and bacteria. Snails speed up the decomposition process that provides nutrients to plants. They provide live food for many fish; Bettas, clown loaches, etc relish them. In some tanks you will find only baby snails, because the fish eat them as they get bigger. If these are MTS (Malaysian Trumpet Snails), then they are aerating the substrate-- another benefit.

You have a beautiful tank. I would relax and enjoy it.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Ravi, I like snails too for the job they do, but I've been selective about what kinds. I had some hitch-hiking baby Giant Ramshorn snails that ate holes in my plants. They had a curly-Q shaped shell and I manually removed them. I believe the football shaped pond snails did also, my Beta ate the small ones and I removed the bigger ones. Took a while to eradicate them but my Beta was vigilant. :axe:
There were also tiny flat ones that looked like half an oyster (ancilid snails). The Beta removed these all without help. He did not however eat the Malaysian Trumpet snails, which as Diana said also stir the substrate. Love them! I got some from a friend and finally found a LFS that would pick some out of their tanks and give them to me. They do double duty and mostly stay underground in the day, so you won't see them as much. I don't know if loaches would eat them or not. I've had Pomacea bridgesi (apple snails or mystery snails), too. But you have to be careful in identifying them at the store. If you guess wrong you could get a voracious plant eater. This site helped me. I've heard good things about Nerites but they will lay infertile eggs everywhere. 
My shrimp do a good clean up job also. I've had ghost/american glass shrimp, but they shredded my Betas fins (provoked) and ate baby Red Cherry Shrimp fry. I like the Amano shrimp and the Red Cherry Shrimp most. the RCS will breed in the tank once it settles in. I like my invertebrates as much as my fish, as you may have guessed. There are options out there for everybody if you want to fill the niche in your tank, but aren't thrilled about what came with the plants.


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

I have read that some add clown loaches to keep snails under control.


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Hi all,

Thank you all for your valuable inputs.I'll leave the snails there for some more time & see how it goes....
But I'am happy with the progression of my tank.All the plants are growing really well except the Anubias & Ferns(Anyways they are slow growers,so never mind....).I added 2 water lillys next to the wood on the right.They shoot up new leaves every alternate day & the crypts are just turning out monsters....I love them.....
Here is an pic of the update as on 01 Oct....


__
https://flic.kr/p/2903859025

Thanks
Ravi


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## gravy9 (Aug 28, 2008)

BTW, I was fighting the snail invasion in my tanks also. After reading some of the posts here, I've also decided to leave them alone.

Are there a lot of places in Bangalore where you can buy aquariums and plants? Is this hobby big in India?

regards,
Ravi


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Hi Ravi,
This hobby in Bangalore is now growing rapidly.There are a lot of LFS here but not all of them deal with good quality fish & plants.But there are 2-3 LFS who are very good at it & there are some hobbysts who collect them from nature.

Thanks


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## gravy9 (Aug 28, 2008)

That's wonderful to hear that the hobby is growing. I just got into this hobby myself and am absolutely hooked on it. It's also great to hear that the enthusiasts collect them from the nature too.

Good Luck with the tank. It's a very well done tank.

regards,
Ravi


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Hi all,

Now I find some strange problem in my tank.I find that no stem plants survive, except Cabomba.Its only for 2-3 days they survive after which the leaves start coming off & slowly the stem melts/rots down.
Any inputs why this is happening.

Ravi


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## gravy9 (Aug 28, 2008)

Has the temperature been constant in the tank? I've had the same issue before and that happened as the temperature in the tank dropped. I ended up putting in a heater in the tank.

regards,
Ravi


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Yes,I have heater on constantly which is set to 26 'o'C


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Hi All,
Here is an update of my tank.I did some trimming & removed the Dwarf Sag from the front which had over crowded.Pushed all the Crypts to the right,added a Nuphur Japonica & some sort of a round leaved Amazon,moved 1 of the water lilly to the left corner.

I feel this new look is better with some open space in the front .I'am soon planning to add some Rainbows.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/?saved=1

Please feel free if any ideas & suggestions..........

Thanks
Ravi


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## gravy9 (Aug 28, 2008)

Looks very nice. I just noticed that the main focus of the light is to the middle of the tank. Are the plants on both the ends low-light?


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

No Ravi...if you observe correctly,the focus is on both the sides,right & left...


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Hi all...,

For the past month or so there is GBA(Green Beard Algae) growth in my tank.I have observed that its growing mainly just below the lights.To the left its growing on the driftwood & to the right its growing on the leaves of some plants.Every week I just keep removing huge lumps of it manually.Is there any permanent solution for this?As you all know I dont dose any ferts & I have a jungle of fast growing plants.

Thanks
Ravi


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Any advice or suggestions on this?


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## plantblr (Feb 27, 2007)

Hi all,

Atlast...no body came back on my help for the algae problem......Thats ok,I blacked out the tank for a week & also got a cleaning crew(6 SAE's , White molly,Black molly,Sword tail a pair each) that has taken care of all my algae in the tank now.

Below are some updated pics of my tank.I recently did a lot of trimming of the Vals,they were growing crazy & almost taken over the tank.Also I'am planning to cover the empty area with some carpet plants & rocks.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Suggestions & advises are welcome

Thanks
Ravi.


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## colinsk (Dec 29, 2008)

I have not had to deal with algae ever. I must be too new. I try to keep plants emerging from my water so they have more carbon dioxide than algae. I am hoping this will give the plants the advantage in taking the nutrients from the water. 

Your tank looks great!


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