# Do you keei??



## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

This thread is to gather this group's experiences successfully growing keei........and uenoi!!
It seems people are always looking for both of them and wondering why some are successful, while others are not.
Any info detailing success or failures may help others be successful in cultivation of these two species.
Let the thread begin!
I will be the first to admit failure. I am trying both species emersed in various substrates, to no avail. I have been told by several experienced growers that emersed culture is a waste of time for these two species. I will be going to submersed for these two species only.
Bill


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## king kong (Jul 2, 2012)

saddletramp said:


> This thread is to gather this group's experiences successfully growing keei........and uenoi!!
> It seems people are always looking for both of them and wondering why some are successful, while others are not.
> Any info detailing success or failures may help others be successful in cultivation of these two species.
> Let the thread begin!
> ...


You find me 1 keei plant and I will grow it Bill. Find a source. There must be someone out there willing to share one plant. After all we are old and our days on this earth are numbered so please help us find a keei. From what I have seen in my vast 2 week experience is emersed culture is way more easier compared to submersed for these exotic Crypts. I would try emersed first with my all new secret substrate and fertilizer program and no, I am not using dog scat yet!


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## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

Right now I am focusing on getting the right conditions set up.
Hopefully there will be lots of responses and differing opinions on what works. Also, there are things to be learned from what does not work.
Let's see what replies come in. Hopefully many will benefit.
Bill


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## chad320 (Mar 30, 2010)

I had the best luck in MTS, sand, and a bit of limestone clay powder mixed 1/2 and 1/2 with used aquasoil I. Mine didnt decline in health so much emergent as they did just plain shrank. Once I submerged them in the same mix again, they grew just as big as they were before. Just keep your Ph up. I used CaSo4 and MgSo4 for this one too if I recall correctly.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

I've not kept it myself, but as Chad mentioned this is one of those true hard water loving species like aponogetifolia or hudoroi. 

Using a substrate like Seachem Onyx would probably work well.


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## looking4roselines (May 10, 2008)

I keei'ed in a 90 gallon tank using mineralized top soil mixed with red clay capped with very used (4-6 years old) aquasoil. My city water is hard. I do not test any of my water conditions but the last time I checked our water report from the city, the TDS is about 350 ppm and the pH is in the high 7's. I do not fertilize this tank. The plants are mostly fed through it's roots and fish poop in the water column. 

I am no expert but from my experience, I believe it is imperative to have ample CO2 and water current for successful submerged growth. I have two classic eheim 2217 (rated for over 100 gallon tank) filters running in this tank with both of the intakes on the left side of the tank and the output on the right side of the tank. I use 2 octopus 1000 needlewheels on both ends of the tank for CO2 diffusion and added current. This needlewheel pump is one of the most efficient diffuser I have ever used. It breaks the CO2 in to microscopic bubbles are suspended in the water column. You can use the suspended bubbles to check for stagnant spots in your tank. The needlewheel by itself will diffuse the CO2 nicely but I went one step further and mesh modded the needlewheels.

When I first started growing crypts, I always tried to emulate their natural habitat but it's hard to keep up with so many ecotype variations. I stopped pampering each crypts and decided to used this blanket setup (90g tank) for all the crypts I owned, including some black water crypts found in peat swamps. When their environment is changed drastically, some are able to adjust. C keei is a hard water crypt. They did great in this tank and they were sending runners 2 feet away the mother plant. I was also able to grow AND bloom c yujii 'Sg. Nibong' in this tank (I lowered the water when I saw a spathe begining to form).


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## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

Well, as one considered a real Crypt aficionado, your input is most important. Thanks for contributing this valuable information.
Bill


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## looking4roselines (May 10, 2008)

Hey Bill, 
I am just the little green grasshopper who still have a lot to learn from the experienced growers.

Not everything grows in this tank. I managed to kill a few c pallidinervia in this tank. I guess this is one of those that cannot adapt.


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## king kong (Jul 2, 2012)

The big question for me is do Crypts have the ability to sort out water kh if they are grown emerged. I have a tank with kh at 5 in which I would be tempted to try growing this keei in. The water level is half way up the clay pot. It's either that or plant it in hard water 11 kh aquarium where the hudoroi grow. But the hudoroi grow just as well in the emersed tank so that is why I am confused.

Now if my kh level moves from 11 to 8 in my aquarium, the hudoroi show instant shock.


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## chad320 (Mar 30, 2010)

Gary, Hudoroi and keei both like pretty much the same conditions submergent so I would think if hudoroi is doing good for you submergent. then the keei will likely follow suit.


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## denske (Jul 28, 2013)

Hey Bill, any pics of your Uenoi? I'm not familiar with this guy, I assume it's similar to keei and bullosa etc....


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## looking4roselines (May 10, 2008)

denske said:


> Hey Bill, any pics of your Uenoi? I'm not familiar with this guy, I assume it's similar to keei and bullosa etc....


Dennis, 
Here's a c uenoi for you. It's generally smaller than c keei and c bullosa.


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## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

Xue, 
Your photo really saved me lots of embarrassment! Mine does not look nearly that good. That is why the submersed CO2 set up will be up and running in a few days.
Again, you "pull the rabbit out df the hat!!" My hat off to you.
Thanks for the photo!
Bill


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## denske (Jul 28, 2013)

Wow that is really nice Xue, thank you. Hey Bill, got your email bud, I'll call you soon. Good luck with the submersed tank! Can't wait to see it.


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## chad320 (Mar 30, 2010)

Well I just got home from a trip to Bills house and he has nothing at all to be embarrassed about. His uenoi may not be as healthy as Xues but his collection is mindblowingly nice! I drove two hours there and two hours back and am more than glad I got the chance to see it. Hes not only got a fantastic collection of Crypts, hes also a world class guy and welcomed my family into his home for almost six hours.


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## saddletramp (Sep 16, 2012)

Now, that is embarrassing. A couple of Crypts and the guy starts tossing compliments. He actually came up,for the Chicago style pizza I had to promise him!!
Did we keei?? Yes!, It was a fun time. Bill


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## ts168 (Apr 13, 2004)

keei grow in sandy substrate as such and there rich iron... some place not much iron so leaf will be more green. Some hobbyist will add a airstone to aerate the water to provide O2 to the root. and provide humidity to the environment. If tank environment is warm for emmerse setup? i worry that the crypt will melt and die.

For submerse? One of my customer keep it in aircon room and the enviroment is cold so his crypt grow well.

For farm they grow their crypt in open area with high humidity and good air circulation. They grow it in cement pond with sandy soil and fert being add in.


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## king kong (Jul 2, 2012)

ts168 said:


> keei grow in sandy substrate as such and there rich iron... some place not much iron so leaf will be more green. Some hobbyist will add a airstone to aerate the water to provide O2 to the root. and provide humidity to the environment. If tank environment is warm for emmerse setup? i worry that the crypt will melt and die.
> 
> For submerse? One of my customer keep it in aircon room and the enviroment is cold so his crypt grow well.
> 
> For farm they grow their crypt in open area with high humidity and good air circulation. They grow it in cement pond with sandy soil and fert being add in.


Thanks ts168, all this makes sense. Airstone in water, sandy soil, not too warm, some air circulation, fert added in.


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## Yo-han (Oct 15, 2010)

Love to own Uenoi!!

I always like small crypto's and I like bullated, tadaaaa!


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## chad320 (Mar 30, 2010)

Just because I happened to come across this pic of my keei when I had them in a high tech tank...


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## looking4roselines (May 10, 2008)

Nice looking plants Chad. Are you going to try them again?


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## chad320 (Mar 30, 2010)

I was in a bad car accident and couldnt walk for a couple months and lost my plant collection. I lost my job and moved four times in six months and lost what little I tried to cling to. I have a 120g set up now and im trying desperately to get back into it. Someday Xue, someday for sure. I cant help my addiction to these things, so onward I go, but its really like starting over from square one(without having to make all the newbie mistakes of course).


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## king kong (Jul 2, 2012)

chad320 said:


> I was in a bad car accident and couldnt walk for a couple months and lost my plant collection. I lost my job and moved four times in six months and lost what little I tried to cling to. I have a 120g set up now and im trying desperately to get back into it. Someday Xue, someday for sure. I cant help my addiction to these things, so onward I go, but its really like starting over from square one(without having to make all the newbie mistakes of course).


holy smokes chad. there will always be a crypt in my tanks with your name on it starting right now. keep your head up and things will get better, that is a promise. you will eventually have the best tank ever. it is amazing how this hobby requires total concentration, good luck, learning and support from people to forge ahead. i have been very fortunate so far and hope things turn around for you chad.


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## chad320 (Mar 30, 2010)

Thanks Gary, its comments like yours that makes it all right in the world. I am back and will be right back in the game before long. Bill has given alot of moral support, along with Colin and Aaron. I have made some great friends in this hobby along the way and thats another part of being a plant nerd that I love. Enough with the pity party about me, back to the Crypt keei. Anyone else got a pic?


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## wabisabi (Dec 4, 2010)

Here's an old pic of my keei 'bau'









And an old pic of keei 'Jambusan' emersed


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## rs79 (Dec 7, 2004)

Here's the one to beat.

http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/k/KEE/00-0-Copr_2011_Sato_KGY.jpg

I've never seen anything more impressive than this stand of plants.


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