# [Wet Thumb Forum]-PH Controller - would you recommend or not?



## jzkmom (Jul 5, 2003)

I would like to switch to a pressurized CO2 setup, and I'm trying to figure out which equipment I want to use. I see that there is a PH Controller (Milwaukee SMS122 pH controller) that controls the CO2 by keeping the PH stable. 

Does anyone use this? Would you recommend it or not? I'm having problems with PH swings with my diy yeast CO2, which is why I want to switch to pressurized. 
Are these PH Controllers accurate and reliable? What's the best way to keep the PH stable when using pressurized CO2?


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## jzkmom (Jul 5, 2003)

I would like to switch to a pressurized CO2 setup, and I'm trying to figure out which equipment I want to use. I see that there is a PH Controller (Milwaukee SMS122 pH controller) that controls the CO2 by keeping the PH stable. 

Does anyone use this? Would you recommend it or not? I'm having problems with PH swings with my diy yeast CO2, which is why I want to switch to pressurized. 
Are these PH Controllers accurate and reliable? What's the best way to keep the PH stable when using pressurized CO2?


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## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

controller is not a necessity in a pressurize system. The only problem I find is having to tune the probe every so often. If you don't do it, it can cause more harm to the tank than DIY system itself.

scenario: You have the shutoff pH 6.8. The probe is out of tune and the pH shows 7 instead of 6.8 at it current level. CO2 will keep releasing into the water until it reach 6.8. Most likely the pH will not fall below 6.8 because of the higher kH. thus, you will be injecting co2 without it stopping at all.

If you keep it at the same bps as the DIY system, the effect will be the same as now. However if you are injecting a lot. you may see some fish belly up the next morning.

Otherwise, controller is not a bad way to keep the co2 in check. However, you will have to make sure the kH is at the right amount so you have enough of a swing for the controller to work effectively. If the kH is too high(the pH swing very little with large increase of co2) It will be hard for it to work effectively.

You could add a solenoid valve on a timer to shutoff the pressurize system at lights out. This will keep co2 from releasing into water when the plants are not using up the co2.

quick simple method to reduce pH swing is add baking soda in the aquarium. 1 teaspoon per 50 gallon will raise it by 1 kH.

72 Gal, 3 WPG PC 10 hour, pressurize co2 /w controller 1 bps, Fluval 404, ph 6.8
A Canadian's Plant Traders website


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

I have read mixed results using both manual injection and monitor controled injection. 

You can do it right either way, just be carefull when your learning how to use it.

Personally the only controler I have experiance with is the Tunze controler at work. It's been running flawlessly for 10+ mos and has not been calibrated since it was setup.

Currently I have manual injection, but I am working on a very high tech system and a Tunze controler will be part of it, when $$ permits.


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## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

I have a saga controller that I picked up in Hong Kong last summer. It was fairly cheap for a digital controller. It only costed me around c$ 300 brand new. I only had to recalibrated once in 9 months use. Good news is, this thing can use pinpoint probe. I believe it is made in Taiwan

I am not sure if I can reuse the probe. I left it in a r/o water container to keep it from drying out during the 3 months moving frenzy.

72 Gal, 3 WPG PC 10 hour, pressurize co2 /w controller 1 bps, Fluval 404, ph 6.8
A Canadian's Plant Traders website


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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

I've used my milwaukee reliably for 8-9 months now. It has not required calibration a,lthough I check it once a month. THere are a few things you need to learn, but that's true with everything we do.

Since using my controller, the pH swing is minimized and the level is consistent. I use much less CO2 because it only comes on when required. It allows me to keep higher CO2 levels because the pH can be controller more accurately without harm to the fish.

*James Hoftiezer
Hoftiezer.Net - Journals and Libraries
Tank Journal - Aquascape ( Latest / Archive )
Tank Journal - Parts and Construction ( Latest / Archive )*


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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

From a reliability standpoint, a pH controller is a big liability. It is rather complicated, and if it fails, there is a real "belly-up" problem. I can't tell you not to use one, although I would advise against it. If you decide you want one anyway, then here is one thing you had better do, if you care for your fish: Keep a needle valve in the line feeding the pH controller that is set to a safe injection level, even with the pH controller stuck ON. Then all the controller has authority to do is reduce the CO2 level below a known safe level.


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## fishmommy (Mar 30, 2003)

I also use a PH controller with good results so far. I have been using it for over a year, and I check/adjust calibration monthly. I agree about adding buffers though...I keep my KH at about 7 as insurance against valve-on failures. What is more likely with a solenoid is a valve-off failure, but in that case the monitor would show the problem. If the power went off for a week, well then I'm porked.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

I'm running two tanks from one cylinder with out a controller. I just run the CO2 24-7. I also run Bio-Wheels on my tanks. Sure I use a bit more CO2 but it's pretty cheap. Also with the Bio-Wheels I find my pH doesn't fluctuate much.

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## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

It is kind of funny that he is getting so many different answer.







.

I prefer to have a lower kH so it flutuate enough throughout the day/night cycle. This will help the controller to stop the co2 flow more rapidly. I notice that when their is light, the pH in my tank will climb .1-.2 degree and stay there througout the day. From that info, I set it to shutoff with a setting of .1-.2 less than the pH range of day cycle . CO2 in my old setup usually stop after 1/2 - 1 hour after lights out.

72 Gal, 3 WPG PC 10 hour, pressurize co2 /w controller 1 bps, Fluval 404, ph 6.8
A Canadian's Plant Traders website


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

James, what model Milwauke do you have?


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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

sms122
You can find it for $90-120.

Personally, I've recommended contollers for people that need or want them, but do not feel that everyone needs them. I think many people can successfully run CO2 without them. Like lighting and fertilizers, the use of solenoids and controllers is tank dependant. They should be used after researching them in order to stabilize pH fluctuations and to push the envelope of CO2 saturation. I would not feel comfortable using 25-30ppm of CO2 without it. I would stay lower at 15-20ppm.

I also realize that a controller or solenoid can fail .... just like my aquariums, hoses, lights, filters, powerheads, fertilizers, test kits, etc can fail. Precautions should be taken and attention paid.

*James Hoftiezer
Hoftiezer.Net - Journals and Libraries
Tank Journal - Aquascape ( Latest / Archive )
Tank Journal - Parts and Construction ( Latest / Archive )*


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## Jim Miller (Feb 3, 2003)

IIRC pH depends on a combination of KH and CO2 concentration. Even if someone uses a controller it might not put much CO2 in the column if the KH gets low. So it would still make sense to regularly test KkH to ensure CO2 concentrations wouldn't it?

tnx
jtm


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## RealFish (Mar 16, 2003)

I have been using a Pinpoint pH controller for more than four years. I replaced the probe 1 time when I moved because let it dry out for a couple of months (it could have still been good, but it was a few years old so I went ahead and replaced it anyway).

I probably test the calibration every two or three months, it is rarely off by more than a 1-2/100s. My maintenance has been lacking lately and I probably hadn't calibrated the probe for more than six months. It was still only off by 1/10.

I have never had a problem with my controller sticking on or off or creating any problem in my tank. And, I am admittedly on the lazy side of maintenance. The controller is designed to fail in the off position.

I do like to keep Discus in my planted tank and appreaciate the stability of the pH and from everything I have read, so do the fish. I wouldn't be without one, and think the stability is important.


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## imported_chris (Feb 24, 2003)

hi all ive been using a dennerle ph controller for around a year now and can highly reccomend them i personally feel more comfortable with the controller but i agree with the people who say they arent a neccessity.chris


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## Doomer (Feb 2, 2003)

I won't say that a controller is a necessity but I will say it makes life a lot easier. I'm running 2 on 2 separate tanks and if either one were to crap out today I would not hesitate to replace it. It's like an addiction, once you're hooked, you're hooked.


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## tonym (Sep 19, 2003)

i have a Dennerle ph controller, it keeps ph constant but is .2PH out (according to test kit)
and i need to callerbrate 2 times month to keep it within this limit. Maybe probe is u/s after a year of use. Have had no problems with cut off valve.
Tank jewel 240 ph 6.4? kh 4deg


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