# dwarf cichlids for community planted tank?



## Matt724

I'm planning for my new 40 to be a planted tank that is "almost jungle" probably wont be full jungle feeling, but lots of plants nonetheless. so are dwarf cichlids like kribs, or apistos okay for a community setting with like tetras and guppies, etc...? if they are, can you give me some good species that would be fit in a tank of this size? Thanks

--Matt


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## gr8nguyen1

no thats a bad idea. i made that mistake a while back. a friend gave me a dwarf cichlid. i thought he was so cute and harmless so i put him in my community tank. the tank had cories and guppies as shrimps. the first few weeks was ok. then he became the neighborhood bully and terrorized everyone. i learned a valuable lesson that day....cichlids and community tank don't go together


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## Philosophos

Cichlids most definitely work with community tanks.

It's just a matter of what kind of cichlid and community.

Apistos get along in community tanks; I have some in with shrimp and pencil fish right now. I'm currently eyeing a harem of A. trifasciata in a 48 going before long. They're territorial when spawning, but not lethal. 

Rams (microgeophagus ramirezi, or pick the binomial they've chosen for this week) are closely related to apistos, and can also do quite well. I have my personal gripes with this fish, but others have done wonderful community tanks with 

Pterophyllum scalare works (NOT altum angels) and is one of the most classic fish to put in a FW tank.

Discus can be done in a calm community aquarium, though they may nibble the odd shrimp or tetra. In all truth, most people keeping discus don't care much when it happens; you don't keep them because their food or other demands are cheap.

I've managed kribensis in community tanks with care and observation, especially males unpaired. Females tend to be a bit more volatile.

These are all good choices for community tanks. Many of the more agressive cichlids will destroy your pants, with the exception of some LTK dwarfs. Unfortunately the LTK dwarfs don't get along with other fish their size or smaller (sometimes bigger) once they spawn, and gender dimorphism is trick with them.

-Philosophos


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## snooze

Philosophos said:


> Cichlids most definitely work with community tanks.
> 
> Pterophyllum scalare works (NOT altum angels) and is one of the most classic fish to put in a FW tank.
> 
> -Philosophos


When i had angels, they would uproot almost every plant. The only plants that seemed to avoid their curiosity were vals and crypts for some reason (probably luck).


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## new2plnts

I have a pair of kribs in a 75 gal with black neons and some rummynose tetras and as is well. The kribs even spawned and now i have about 30 babies that I will need to find a home for in a few weeks


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## rbarn

I have 4 male Rams in my community tank.
They fight among each other but ignore other fish including Amano shrimp

They act just like their big brothers, fighting, flashing, coming to glass when you walk up
but never hurt each other in fights and dont dig up plants.

Seems to help to have more than 2, so the bully has someone else to chase.


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## ddavila06

gr8nguyen1 said:


> no thats a bad idea. i made that mistake a while back. a friend gave me a dwarf cichlid. i thought he was so cute and harmless so i put him in my community tank. the tank had cories and guppies as shrimps. the first few weeks was ok. then he became the neighborhood bully and terrorized everyone. i learned a valuable lesson that day....cichlids and community tank don't go together


what tipe of cichlid was that? i have plenty of dwarfs with my community tank including cribs, appistos and rams together with tetras, cories and plecos and no issues whatsoever. no shrimp though, that will just fatten them up...


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## gr8nguyen1

i had a beautiful zebra tilapia. he was adorable and being only about 1" i thought he would be harmless. boy was i wrong. like i wrote earlier, the first couple weeks he was a model citizen. then he became the neighborhood serial killer. he terrorized the entire community tank. killed a bunch of my shrimps. nibbled my honey gourami to death. i had to give it away to the lfs. he laughed when i told him i put it in a community tank so overal i've just had bad experiences with ciclids in community tanks. i mean having to constantly use RO water for them to keep the ph below 7 was a hassle. when my tanks were naturally buffered to stay above 7. then it would hurt the plants bc they weren't getting enough minerals lacking in RO water. i just figured it wasn't worth it...but to each his own
ddavila, how did you manage to keep the rams alive in a community tank. were they german blue rams. bc i found it nearly impossible to keepthem thriving. i mean any fluctuations in ph, nitrates ect and they kicked the bucket. i finally got so sick and tired of them dying i switched to the bolivian rams. not as beautiful as the germans but much hardier and tolerant to water parameter fluctuations. whats your secret. everybody i know says you have to keep rams in a species tank and daily water changes...yuck..i gotta work..don't have time for all that..please help a brother out


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## Philosophos

snooze said:


> When i had angels, they would uproot almost every plant. The only plants that seemed to avoid their curiosity were vals and crypts for some reason (probably luck).


That sounds abnormal for angels. They're regularly kept in big planted tanks. Pick a big name in planted tanks, and they've kept them successfully in their setups at some time or other.

-Philosophos


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## ddavila06

gr8nguyen1 said:


> ddavila, how did you manage to keep the rams alive in a community tank. were they german blue rams. bc i found it nearly impossible to keepthem thriving. i mean any fluctuations in ph, nitrates ect and they kicked the bucket. i finally got so sick and tired of them dying i switched to the bolivian rams. not as beautiful as the germans but much hardier and tolerant to water parameter fluctuations. whats your secret. everybody i know says you have to keep rams in a species tank and daily water changes...yuck..i gotta work..don't have time for all that..please help a brother out


i too had terrible luck with german blue rams, so i tried bolivians and they are great. it is a 75, moderate planted, eco complete substrate, water changes ever 10 days or so...nothing fancy. and they share the tank with a breeding community of kribs and golden angels, and clown loaches and plecos. actually, the tank is a bit overcrowded but i can not take the fish out without tearing it apart. they love frozen foods, any kind. and pellets and regular foods...i did buy some at the pet shop and some from a friend who breeds them.


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## vancat

Gotta stick up for altums....in 4 years mine never, ever uprooted any plants. And they got really big. Nibbled on some blyxa a bit, but nothing crazy.

Rams: never again. Really pretty but curiously unstable- healthy one day, dead the next.

Apistos are awesome. Cacatuoides in particular.

Would like to try kribs some day.


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## ddavila06

vancat said:


> Gotta stick up for altums....in 4 years mine never, ever uprooted any plants. And they got really big. Nibbled on some blyxa a bit, but nothing crazy.
> 
> Rams: never again. Really pretty but curiously unstable- healthy one day, dead the next.
> 
> Apistos are awesome. Cacatuoides in particular.
> 
> Would like to try kribs some day.


when you say ALTUMS, do you refer the the wild tipe "altum angels" or angels in general? i ask because Altum Angels are one of the hardest fish (and beautiful) to keep. in the other hand, captive common angels are very easy and i never, ever ever had an issue with them.


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## vancat

Yes, I had wild altum angels, imported from SA. I actually had a fairly easy time with them, after they grew a little. 

Kept them for 4 years and recently sold them because I had to break down my tank. 

If you can find a copy of Aquarium Fish International, June 2008, they printed a piece I wrote about them: "Altums: The Ultimate Angelfish".


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## jasa73

I keep Rams and they are great in my community tank. The only time they became territorial is when they spawned and had eggs and fry. Other than that they have great personalities and ignored the other fish.


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## Philosophos

Apparently there's been some confusion with what I said. I emphasized I was not reffering to altums due to a lack of experience keeping them.

In this specific situation, I also wouldn't recommend a fish that can grow to well over 16 inches high in a tank that's 17 inches deep, minus a couple inches of substrate.


-Philosophos


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## geeks_15

I've kept german blue rams and apistogramma borellii with ember tetras (max 1") with no problems in a 29 gallon heavily planted tank. The cichlids sometimes picked on each other but never the other fish and they never bothered the plants. I had one dominant ram that killed any other rams but ignored everything else.

I kept a krib in a similar with pearl gouramis with no problem. The krib did terminate the ghost shrimp that had cycled the tank for me.


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## trigun808

weird... i have no problem at all with keeping my german blue ram and electric blue ram (they recently paired off and had eggs already!) they seem colorful and happy in the tank


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## vancat

sorry for the unintentional hijack....!


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