# Puffers!!!



## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

Well, now that I am the proud owner of 4 dwarf Puffers....here's a Puffer Thread.

I see they have their own forum....!
http://www.dwarfpuffers.com/

The website strictly warns us to beware of their voracious aggressiveness....but everyone I talk to says this is not neccessarily so. I believe when they make it to my 72 gallon planted tank in 3 weeks, there won't be any problems. The altums will keep them in line. And the snails will keep them busy.

What's y'alls' experience? Aggressive or nonaggressive?

penny


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## Round Head (Feb 28, 2006)

I had a 9 pack of dwarf puffers in my 80gal with tetras.
They were extremely mean fish and I had to remove them all from the community.
I never did see them eat anything other than fish fins and tails.


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

I have a DP with 6 endler's and 15 cherries (even a few that i think are preggers). She is very nice to them from what i see and only gets tempramental when one steals a bloodworm when she's hungry. The endlers have been there since they were fry's and she's been good. It's the DP, endlers and cherries in a 10 gal with a pretty large java fern, some java moss, amazon sward, and cabomba.










Maybe when i can dedicate the 10 gal i'll even find her a boyfriend  It's so fun, I'll tell you that every time i walk into my room she comes right up to the glass stuffing her face as close to it as she can get with the look at me look. The same one she gave when i took her home from the store.

EDIT: Even now she dosent show the black spots half as much. Sometimes I come home to her being just yellow. I guess this is normal and shows her being unstressed. I love this lil fish.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

It all boils down to each puffers individual personality. You could get lucky or you could not. If not, those Altums will have shredded fins. Another reason for not keeping Dp's in with other fish is that they can easily get out competed for food from the faster more aggresive eaters.


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## dapellegrini (Jan 18, 2007)

I have had great success with a group of 4 DPs in my 72-gallon community. I have not had a single incident. My tank is heavily planted with lots of places to hide, they are very well feed (love bloodworms), there are no slow fish with big fins like Bettas or Guppies and I believe all 4 are female

My stocking:

4x DPs
10x Neons
10x Rummynose
14x Galaxy Rasboras
2x SAE
4x Glass Catfish
3x Bumblebee Gobies
7x Ottos
2x Farlowella Acus
1x Marble Hatchet (his friends have all committed suicide)



















The tank today after a large trimming


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## dapellegrini (Jan 18, 2007)

I should add that I also have tons of Shrimp, Nerites and MTS... They try and take down the Nerites from time to time, but without success... They don't kill themselves on the MTS and the Shrimp are left to breed like cockroaches...


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## dhavoc (Mar 17, 2006)

they all have different personalities. so far i have been lucky and the 3 i have in 2 different tanks all dont bother any fish, shrimp, or each other. the one in a 10g, is fine with neons, hundreds of RCS and even a couple of C Shuffeldi (SP?) dwarf crays. doesnt touch the shrimp as far as i can tell and only goes after the many scuds and snails i put in the tank. i dont feed him anything else, but he never seems skinny, and i dont see any shrimp carcasses or shredded fish fins (been in there for 6 mo). the 2 others i have in a 120g planted and again they dont bother any fish or shrimp that i can see. they hunt small snails and scuds, competing with my hummingbird tetras for the scuds.... i'm sure they are eating very small shrimplets, but thats not a problem if the species you keep breeds like rabits (RCS or the wild form - i hav both). 

Vancat, try yours out and if they turn out to be aggressive, return them to the LFS for new ones. i love the little buggers.


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

dapellegrini - What is the plant that looks like a womens fish net pantyhose? That's a great looking plant. Also your puffers seem to group together for the photos as if they are posing, Do you find they school with eachother usually?


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

dapellegrini... I see no eye wrinkles in the pics you posted, so those are females (unless they are too young to sex yet), but they look to be full grown to me.

Females are usually less aggressive then males and this may be one reason you are having good results. Also having lots of hiding places and being heavily planted helps a great deal. Plus your girls are real ladies!

By the way, that's a beautiful tank you have.


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## dapellegrini (Jan 18, 2007)

Thanks...

They are one of my favorite fish. Mine almost always swim in groups of 2 or 4. They are all full grown. I actually bought 5 originally and I am fairly sure the 5th was a male. He decided that one of the Crypts (a very large one) was his property and no one was allowed to come around... Well not sure how he disappeared, but he is no longer in there (I know because I never found him when I switched out the substrate a few months back). 

Vancat - if you can select, perhaps getting females would make things easier for you. I think the females look prettier anyways. 

oh and Muirner - you mean the big Madagascar Lace plant on the left side? That one has gotten a lot bigger than I was anticipating.


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

dapellegrini - I notice more and more that your puffers have a Bright black spot to them you know? Mine seems more washed out. I guess it brings me to ask, is something up with my puffer? Is she stressed or something of the like? Any ideas.

Edit: And yes that lace plant is great looking


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## dapellegrini (Jan 18, 2007)

I don't know. I think males are more pale in general though...


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

I loved mine when I had them! 

Mine loved Bloodworms that I would shave from a cube.


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## dapellegrini (Jan 18, 2007)

Well I take it back.... After trenac mentioned the eye wrinkles thing, I started looking closer and in fact one is a male. The other three do not have the same wrinkles. I bet my 5th was a male too and got voted out of the tank...

He really didn't want to be photographed today, but I think I got a good enough shot to see the "wrinkles":










Perhaps more of the problems occur when you have more than one male? Like I said, these are one of my favorite fish and I have had no issues with them...


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

They say when keeping more then one it's best to have all females or 1 male to 2 or more females. To bad they havent successfully bred for you yet. I bet the babys would be cuter yet!!! Great picture by the way!


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

Yeah....nice tank!
I believe I have 3 females & one male.
They are in a quarantine tank for 3 weeks when they will then join the big bad altums. If they show any aggression towards the angels, out they come. I don't see that happening since they are about 1/50th of the angels' size. It would be kinda like a mouse nipping at a lion's tail...but you never know. 

...as I was reminded when trying to choose between loaches and puffers, the puffers are alot easier to remove from the tank, if I need to.

Thanks for the wrinkles pic, too!


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## fredyk (Jun 21, 2004)

Full grown males have a line on the underbelly going from head to tail, underneath, which they feel is attractive to the females, and they kind of flare with other males as if who has the greatest underbelly. And the males are very territorial. They are a joy to watch. The big male had patrolled a large clump of pellia, before I sold it. They all moved into a dense forest of crypts after no more pellia. Never had no babies, though lots of mating going on.


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

So now i'm confused, if they are mating, shouldnt they have produced some sort of fruit for their labor, lol, I mean.. This is where i get confused


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## dapellegrini (Jan 18, 2007)

I dunno about the fruits-of-their-labor thing, but here are a couple more shots of 3 of the 4 making their rounds:


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

I'm looking forward to getting mine into the main tank...!


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

So de puffers have joined the altums. Very comical, all 7 huge angels had to come up real close and inspect the puffers. I have to admit I was afraid they would eat them. Just curious, I guess.

Last night they went the main tank, this a.m. (although the light was still off) I could see the puffers inspecting and hunting out snails. COOL FISH!!!

No aggression whatsoever on their part so far. Too busy.
LOVE DA PUFFS.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Cool Penny! I'm still bummed that I never got to see your altums. Not to digress, but what are you feeding these guys? Do the puffers eat whatever it is that you're giving the angels?


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

Hey guy!
The puffers? I have a tank full of of snails, THAT's what they are going to eat!
They do like bloodworms, too.
I will find out just what they will eat other than that in the days to come.

As for the angels, they get a bunch of different flake foods (Ken's, Tetra, etc), Hikari dried bloodworms, frozen brine & frozen bloodworms. And I suspect I may be feeding them cardinal tetras....
PM me your email addy and I'll email you some altum pics, if you like.
penny
Hey! I have a photograph in the May Aquarium Fish International!


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## NatalieT (Mar 20, 2007)

dapellegrini said:


>


What is that pink/purple stripey plant in the back right?

Natalie


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## dapellegrini (Jan 18, 2007)

Alternanthera reineckii


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

FYI
This a.m I cannot find A SINGLE snail.
(except for the big nerites)


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

I thought i'd try to drop about 6 snails from my 55 into my 10 gallon tank, and low and behold yup, every one eaten. I tried to get some good pictures of Belly in attack pose, she gets all turned upside down and such. It's cute, but I kinda want a couple snails.


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## Ulan (Oct 2, 2006)

Those are great pics of those puffers. And a very nice tank, too .

I also have a trio of puffers, but I'm a bit hesitant to put them in my 20L. There, they would have lots of snails to feast on , but I'm afraid I'd never get them out again in case I'll have problems. I even cannot catch a big ram male. I don't have the slightest idea where he manages to hide when he sees me with the net. And I heard that puffers are not stupid, either.


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

If you get a puffer, you will notice quickly that since the puffer dosent reconize you in the begging he/she will be shy. After the first week i managed to get my puffer to start eating bloodworms out of my fingers. Every day i feed her by hand. Yes a pain in the butt, but defentally worth it.

Vancat - i have been thinking of putting my DP in my 55 community, but the thing is it has probably 50-100 snails in it. If i do that i'll have all the empty intact shells in the tank, how do you plan to get them out? Also isnt it so sweet seeing the striking pose that the puffer gets? Poised above the victim, and then sometimes even inverted (eyes closest to the substrate) I love watching my girl hunt, each eye looking around, and then right when she goes to eat the snail, she looks for me. If she sees me i get a "Hey i'm not doing anything" type of look, and if i "hide" i can watch her hunt it!








There she is, eating a snail, that is right when she was sucking the foot out. I'm making a slideshow now

Check it out:
http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/...nail hunt/?action=view&current=1176668220.pbw


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

well, my tank isn't so pristine so that I can even see the empty shells, to tell you the truth....they're still in there mixed with gravel, mulm & plants. Perhaps when I do a water change tonight I will vaccuum up a bunch of empty shells...?
yes, I love the way they look very carefully at everything!


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## Rob Tetrazona (Jun 21, 2005)

I bought 10 dp's a week ago and they are pretty small, like a 1/2". Their snail appetite isn't ravenous. From a snail eating perspective, are there better things to expect the older/bigger they get?


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## Yoshi (Apr 7, 2007)

Are any of you guys keeping your dwarf puffs w/shrimp? Anyone willing to toss in a few ghost shrimp to see how they fare w/the puffs roaming around?


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## dapellegrini (Jan 18, 2007)

I keep mine with dozens of RCS, CRS, Bee and Amano Shrimp. No issues. Of course if you put 3 DPs in a 10 gallon they will probably try and eat or kill everything. They need lots of visual barriers, a larger environment, etc... Given the correct conditions they will not pay any attention to your shrimp.


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## swub (Apr 17, 2007)

AWESOME looking tank, dapellegrini.

What plant is that purplish one? 

I just got my fish tank on the 4th of this month. I have tons to learn, but I'd love to have a set up just like that. Plenty of plants, critters and fish!

I only have 4 plattys and 4 tetra's so far. Have to get the tank good and stabilized. 

I have to find a cheaper place to buy fish and plants though. ($256 for the 8 fishes and those plants)
(hope the photo uploaded) - Day 7 of my 90gal tank.


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## dapellegrini (Jan 18, 2007)

Alternanthera reineckii

... oh and thank you for the nice comments


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## swub (Apr 17, 2007)

Thanks depellegrini. I'll grab some of that reineckii.

Do you buy the blood worms alive or frozen? Thanks again for all your input and insight.
I must have that mossy undergrowth you have too!! (sooo much to buy...neat hobby)


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## dapellegrini (Jan 18, 2007)

DPs take very well to frozen bloodworms. I have never feed mine live, though I'm sure they would love live as well.


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## dhavoc (Mar 17, 2006)

frozen blood worms are like crack to my dp's. i mainly let them eat the resident scuds and the occasional rcs and they never seem skinny. wiped out my snails completely so they dont have those to pick on any more. love the little buggers.


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

Mine eat FD bloodworms.... and the 4 of them totally wiped out hundreds of snails literally overnight!


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

I feed mine frozen blood worms, the way i do it. I cut the cube in half, thaw half of it with a tiny tiny bit of water like poland springs, and feed her by hand. The thing is. She has a little "ritual" to follow. First with the frozen cube i put it in a small dish i have, let it float in my aquarium for about 10 minutes to thaw, she sits by it almost the whole time. When i come over and take it out, she stays at the surface, and eats out of my fingers. with the extra, i freeze it in the dish to be thawed out again the next day.

Lately i've been throwing 1-3 snails daily into the tank to give her a lil treat.


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## swub (Apr 17, 2007)

Muirner....where do you get your snails? There are a few tiny ones in my tank that migrated with my plants, but my local fish store doesnt carry any fresh water ones. 

Maybe find them online....?
Thks


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

when I set up my 55 gallon tank, I placed a order with someone here on APC, and they said they'd include red ramshorn snails so I got those (along with i think 2 MTS), but the majority came on plants from here and my LFS. There is plenty of algae and other nutrience for them to have so they just reproduce like mad.


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## swub (Apr 17, 2007)

Thanks Muirner....I'll wait til I see a post for someone selling some sexy snails!!


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

LOL, sexy snails. Maybe you could put something in the wanted to buy section, WTB: Pond Snails, hopefully a local member close to you can help ya out. Someone may have a better idea. 

But you know, i've noticed, i love feeding bloodworms but some days i'm just strapped for time, so i'll drop a few snails in the tank. Quick, and surely she'll be the one to eat it. So it's almost like fast food :lol:


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

This thread is entertaining. Vancat got puffers to get rid of her snails. Now some of you are trying to figure out how to get snails. Very funny.


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

Funny, eh?

Actually they are comical fish.


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## swub (Apr 17, 2007)

Once my tank is fully stocked and the plants are grown somewhat more...I plan to add 4 puffers. The question is...how do I tell the female from the males? I want 1male and 3females. They have them for $2.99 at Petsmart, but I am hesitant to buy from a mass retailer like that. Any comments on buying them from Petsmart?


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

http://www.dwarfpuffers.com/
should have that info.

As for Petsmart...I would quarantine the fish! (I quarantine everything anyways...)


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## Yoshi (Apr 7, 2007)

The petsmart DP's are where I get mine. In my experience, you should shop around different petsmarts and see which have the healthiest bunch; I've never had a problem with their DP's.


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

Male DP's will have a distinct line down their belly, and also they will have wrinkles behind their eyes. It's hard to differentiate but it can be done. I saw a few males and females today at Petsmart.


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## dapellegrini (Jan 18, 2007)

If you read through this thread you will see photos of males and females along with discussion on how to tell them apart ...

I got mine at Petsmart and they have been great.


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

SWUB - idk if your still looking for snails, but I have a TON of snail egg sacks on my hornwort that is floating, i can just snip a big portion of it off and make sure it includes egg sacks and ship them to you if you have another tank to let them grow up a tiny bit. Thats the only thing i can think of. 

Since i started feeding my pond snails to my puffer, my Red Ramshorn snail population is exploading. and my pond snails are dropping. Which is good and bad. Now i just need some MTS's


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## black_lung (Dec 19, 2006)

It's so nice to see that there are so many happy healthy dps out there. I got my first pair about 3 years ago and since then absolutely fell in love with puffers. It's curious to read about the differences in the individuals feeding habits, how some will avoid eating snails and how others will gorge themselves on bloodworms. My male will eat anything and everything, while my female wouldn't touch anything that wasn't alive. My garage turned into a food production zone soley for her..brine shrimp, daphina, scuds and snails amongst others..quite a mess to say the least..but worth it 

Does anyone keep any of the other freshwater puffers? I have a brown puffer, tetraodon turgidus who is by far the most personable fish I have kept..almost reminds me of a puppy with a beak


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

Update:
The honeymoon's over! Evidently after the snails were gone, the DPs started munching on fish fins. Not cool! Three of the 4 were caught & brought back to the LFS. The last I can't catch, but he seems to be behaving himself.

penny


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## freshhubbywifey (Jun 2, 2007)

Very nice tank...good luck with it. What type of snails is it that you feed the puffers? Would love to have some puffers in our tank when we get it going. Any problems with any fish, I know that all fish have their different temperaments but was just curious.


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

Yup.
If you read the previous post you will see they can be fin-nippers. They really did a number on my rainbows, and even nipped the trailers off of my huge altum angelfish.


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## skincareaddicted (Mar 19, 2007)

oh vancat,that's too bad. i really like the way puffers look, they are so cute. but the tanks at the LFS scare me since the puffers chew on each other all the time and tend to look so ragged. those tanks are much too small for all those puffers! i do want to eventually get some but it will definitely be a species tank with very few puffers. 

Kristen~


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

Kristen
Yup- I really couldn't fathom that they would attack the other fish...they are so small in comparison- but they did. 

Although it may be an individual thing- the one left that I couldn't catch seems to be leaving the other fish alone.

I liked them alot (especially when they ate a zillion snails overnight) and they really are cute, but nobody messes with my Altums. Out ya go!
penny


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

That is the reason that puffers are best kept in species only tank. They may start off nice, but once they start to mature they grow more aggressive. Like all fish they have their individual personalitys. Some can be kept with other species, but it is always a risk; especially for fish with long flowing fins.


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

Yes- I was forewarned!
But I will say they did their job (snail extermination) extremely well and 3 out of 4 were very easy to catch.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Any plans to find some sidthimunki loaches now?


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

WTH do I need those for? All the snails are gone!
Wise guy.
Howyadoin Bryce?


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Maybe for now, but snails can spontaneously erupt for no particular reason. It's kind of funny actually. In my setup they seem to cover every surface of the tank at certain times while a few weeks later there are none to be found. The types and sizes also seem to vary from month to month.

Besides, I just think sidthimunki's are cool fish - I've always wanted to try some.


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

Here's the story....I TRIED in vain to find sids before I got the puffers. Couldn't find any for weeks. So I got the puffers as 2nd choice. Of course, Ed at Fish Frenzy called me a week later to tell me he got some sids in.


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## dapellegrini (Jan 18, 2007)

Sorry to hear that you had trouble.

I wonder if this is not an issue of certain incompatibilities with your fish. I do not keep Angels or Rainbows, but they have large and/or elaborate fins, right? This may just be too temping for your DPs... I recently added a dozen lampeye Killies and I suspect my DPs killed them all. Strange thing is they do not bother any of my other fish or shrimp, ever... My current community includes:

4x DPs
3x Cory Cats
1x Kuhli Loaches
7x Neons
8x Rummynose
7x Otos
3x Bumblebee Gobies
7x Schooling BB Gobies
2x Farlowellas
4x Ghost Catfish
3x Dwarf Botia
14x Galaxy Rasboras
4x Dario Dario
2x African Dwarf Frogs
and tons of RCS, CRS, Bee Shrimp and Amano Shrimp

The only difference I see is fin size and perhaps speed of the fish that get attacked...


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

Probably true....they really did a number on the rainbows, whose fins began to grow back immediately after I got rid of 3 of the 4 dps.

they only nipped the trailers of the angels. I couldn't fathom that they were going to bother them...it would be like a sparrow nipping at an eagle....but they did!

I never witnessed it happenening, but it became obvious what was going on.


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

Dap - How do you like the African Dwarf Frogs? What do you need to feed them? Also how bout the Schooling BB Gobies. How do you like them? I think both are interesting and would love to get the BB gobies, but i need someone with experience to tell me how they are.


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## dapellegrini (Jan 18, 2007)

Actually the sparrow attacking an eagle is a good analogy and something that does happen in nature (not sure about those specific birds, but small bird attacking large bird is common). The smaller animal is more agile and too small for the larger to deal with.

The AD Frogs were for my kids. They are a cool addition to the tank I guess. They typically come out and peck at the sinking waffers I put in for the shrimp. Very easy animal to keep, so long as they cannot get out of the top of the tank.

The Schooling BB Goby photo on Frank's Aquarium website is of the latest batch he sent me, roaming around my tank. They eat the same thing as my larger BB Gobies (frozen brine and blood worms). They are not as colorful or interesting IMO, but they are about 1/4 the size of the more common ones.

Here is a side-by-sides:










Schooling BB Goby up close:



















Standard BB Goby:


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

Great pictures. Thank you very much! I'm trying to figure out my next addition to my tank. I'm not sure what i want. but now with those latest pictures i'm liking the BB goby.


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## JAXON777 (Jan 4, 2007)

I really like these fish but right now I have only cherries and ottos (x5) in my 100 gallon tank. Do you guys think these puffers would leave my ottos alone? I dont want to try and catch these little fish in my big tank. I have been putting off getting any fish until my cherry population was good enough and I think I got a couple hundred now so.... Just wondering about these little guys. Also how many would be a good start for my 100?


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## dapellegrini (Jan 18, 2007)

I have 7 ottos in my 72-gallon w/ 4 DPs - and no problems --- It may be hit-and-miss, but with a tank that size, I think your DPs would have plenty of room to establish territory and would most likely leave your Ottos alone


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

I have my 1 DP female in a 10 gal with 2 ottos and about 8 endlers in various stages of development. Anyways, she seems to do fine, but my cherry population is well.... Dwindeling, I never see her trying to go after anything but the cherries just dont seem to be around. Other then them, she's doing great. 

I think you'd be set putting say 2 females to one male in your tank...


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## dirrtybirdy (May 22, 2007)

i am currently in the process of setting up my tank. When im done i want a few of these guys swimming around. i had a few and loved them. awsome fishes


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