# This VS that Co2 system



## corpsman8404 (Oct 5, 2010)

yea i know you guys are tired of this

first off im completly new to planted aquariums

ok so im thinking im thinking of getting a co2 system, the DIY ones dont appeal to me at all

currently im looking at one from fosterandsmith.com

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3747+9933&pcatid=9933

and one from aquacave.com (this one comes with alot of different options which ones should i go for?)

http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=1364

would you guys go with a different package deal all together? i like the idea if a PH controller is it better for a newb such as me to get one?

Current set up

Tank
60Gal

Lights
Hagen glo t5 ho

Bulbs
1 "D-D Giesemann Powerchrome Midday 54W 48 inch 
1 "D-D Giesemann Powerchrome Aquaflora 54W 48 inch

Plants
Anubis
Javafern
Swords
Anacharis

Substrate
peagravel/florite mix

Tank mates
3 angelfish
1 german ram
1 bolivin ram
2 bnp
3 Dwarf Gourami
1 albino rainbow shark

Filter

Fluval 405

Soooo by that listing what am i doing wrong ?


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## cbwmn (Dec 18, 2007)

There are a lot of ppl that don't like the needle valve supplied with the Milwaukee system.
I bougdht a used Milwaukee setup for $215. I don't have any problems with the needle valve.
If you watch the for sale ads on the various forums, you can save some money.
Of the two listed, I would go for the Milwaukee setup.
Milwaukee has an excellent customer service website:
http://www.milwaukeetesters.com

Good luck,
Charles


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## TonyVideo (Aug 11, 2010)

I purchased the one from Drs. Foster & Smith and it works just fine. I would suggest a drop checker as well to keep an eye on it. Initially I was injecting too much CO2 even though the PH controller was calibrated correctly as I have a high PH coming into my home and the unit never shut off. I had adjusted my PH too low for when the CO2 shut off which it never did even overnight. 

I had also hooked up an air stone and pump connected to the PH controller but since my PH was high it never kicked on and one morning all my fish were swimming at the top along with my Cory's which is NOT normal. I almost gassed them. The drop checker allows me to quickly determine everything is fine. 

I ended up putting my air pump on its own timer and run it for 30 minutes every two hours to make sure I don't gas the fish and only when I don't have the lights on. 

The PH controller is on it's own timer as well and kicks on about an hour before my lights. The CO2 level is a little low but is ok when the lights come on. Now that my tank has stabilized the CO2 now kicks on and off as needed during the time my lights are on. I turn off the CO2 about an hour before lights out. 

This scenario works for me as my plants are growing like craze with EI dosing and everything looks great. Each tank is different and has different parameters and you will have to tweak it to your own setup. It took about 30 days for me to get it just right where everything is ok.


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## corpsman8404 (Oct 5, 2010)

TonyVideo said:


> I purchased the one from Drs. Foster & Smith and it works just fine. I would suggest a drop checker as well to keep an eye on it. Initially I was injecting too much CO2 even though the PH controller was calibrated correctly as I have a high PH coming into my home and the unit never shut off. I had adjusted my PH too low for when the CO2 shut off which it never did even overnight.
> 
> I had also hooked up an air stone and pump connected to the PH controller but since my PH was high it never kicked on and one morning all my fish were swimming at the top along with my Cory's which is NOT normal. I almost gassed them. The drop checker allows me to quickly determine everything is fine.
> 
> ...


So what was wrong with the PH Controller? i thought the whole purpose behind the PH controller was to shut off if the CO2 Levels got to high.


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## corpsman8404 (Oct 5, 2010)

cbwmn said:


> There are a lot of ppl that don't like the needle valve supplied with the Milwaukee system.
> I bougdht a used Milwaukee setup for $215. I don't have any problems with the needle valve.
> If you watch the for sale ads on the various forums, you can save some money.
> Of the two listed, I would go for the Milwaukee setup.
> ...


for this setup im just confused about which component is better for example is the pinpoint ph controller worth the extra $90 ? or is the AM membrane reactor worth the extra $13? etc.....


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## cbwmn (Dec 18, 2007)

corpsman
I don’t have any experience with that setup. I have a Milwaukee rig. And the MA957 controller that comes with it works fine. Someone else will have to chime in on the membrane reactor.
The Milwaukee unit does come with your choice of reactor.
I don’t use a reactor, I inject the CO2 into the intake of my XP2 canister.
Charles


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## TonyVideo (Aug 11, 2010)

corpsman8404 said:


> So what was wrong with the PH Controller? i thought the whole purpose behind the PH controller was to shut off if the CO2 Levels got to high.


In an established aquarium which mine is now it should be no problem. This happened when I first set up the aquarium. My initial water PH was 7.6. I was injecting the CO2 to bring it down to 6.8. (I should have just left it at 7.6) I had to up the bubble count to get more CO2 to get it to come down. The issue was after increasing the CO2 that day to get it to 6.8 it didn't even shut off overnight even with the plants producing CO2 and since my PH was initially high it had a tendency to rise which caused more CO2 to be injected or basically it did not shut off. The amount of CO2 was too much for the fish. The tank on its own wanted to rise in PH in a short amount of time with no lights and no CO2. I was fighting a losing battle. This is why I put an air stone on a timer to make sure oxygen levels were high enough for the fish. I have since kept the air stone on overnight with the lights off just to make sure.

I think the main issue here was with the new setup I should have not tried to fight my PH initially. You are correct the PH controller shuts off my CO2 when it reaches the set point. It saves CO2. PH rises with lights on and photosynthesis is taking place. Injecting CO2 drops the PH and shuts off at your set time so your CO2 level won't get too high. Basically this allows you to not have to adjust the bubble count all the time. If you have too many bubbles it will shut on and off a lot. Too few bubbles and it will run all the time as it never gets to you set point. I know I am fine when I see it is shut off periodically.

If your PH changes you need to reset your CO2 off point again. This is what I did wrong the first time. I set the controller for 6.8 instead of 7.2 for when to shut off the CO2. You need to use the KH & PH table to set the range on the PH controller that you are working with. In my initial case my KH was 15 and my PH was 7.6 which according to the chart I should have set my controller for around 7.2. By setting 6.8 I was more than doubling the amount of CO2 in the water. I am still surprised I didn't lose my fish. I learned a valuable lesson.

I use a drop checker to quickly see everything is ok as I am passing by. This also tells me that when I look at it in the evening with the lights on and the controller is off if I need to readjust my PH controller. My PH might have changed a little by doing water changes or just time passing and my shut off point might be too low or high. Yes the PH controller controls the PH at a set level however your KH level determines the amount of CO2 in the water. This part I initially missed.

I use the air stone and pump only at night on a timer to have peace of mind knowing if something went wrong with the controller or solenoid the fish would still be ok. I know I am driving a lot of CO2 out of the aquarium by using it but since I have the controller on a timer as well I am not wasting CO2. By turning on the PH controller an hour before lights on it raises the CO2 level somewhat close enough when the lights actually do come on.

Hopefully I have cleared it up a little for you or confused you even more.


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## corpsman8404 (Oct 5, 2010)

TonyVideo said:


> In an established aquarium which mine is now it should be no problem. This happened when I first set up the aquarium. My initial water PH was 7.6. I was injecting the CO2 to bring it down to 6.8. (I should have just left it at 7.6) I had to up the bubble count to get more CO2 to get it to come down. The issue was after increasing the CO2 that day to get it to 6.8 it didn't even shut off overnight even with the plants producing CO2 and since my PH was initially high it had a tendency to rise which caused more CO2 to be injected or basically it did not shut off. The amount of CO2 was too much for the fish. The tank on its own wanted to rise in PH in a short amount of time with no lights and no CO2. I was fighting a losing battle. This is why I put an air stone on a timer to make sure oxygen levels were high enough for the fish. I have since kept the air stone on overnight with the lights off just to make sure.
> 
> I think the main issue here was with the new setup I should have not tried to fight my PH initially. You are correct the PH controller shuts off my CO2 when it reaches the set point. It saves CO2. PH rises with lights on and photosynthesis is taking place. Injecting CO2 drops the PH and shuts off at your set time so your CO2 level won't get too high. Basically this allows you to not have to adjust the bubble count all the time. If you have too many bubbles it will shut on and off a lot. Too few bubbles and it will run all the time as it never gets to you set point. I know I am fine when I see it is shut off periodically.
> 
> ...


nope i got what you were saying. thanks for taking the time to spell it out for my i greatly appreciate it.


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## sampster5000 (Jul 24, 2010)

Wew I wish I understood these pH controllers and CO2 systems like yall do! You make it seem so easy


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