# [Wet Thumb Forum]-low light, lightly planted tank



## Guest (May 13, 2003)

Tank: 56g (30x18x24h). Been set up for about 7 weeks and planted for almost 2.

lighting: one 20w Sylvania Gro-lux and one 18w T8 bulb that came with the perfecto hood. The lights are 2 strip lights, one in back of the other

CO2: Not planning on adding any. Even if a DIY system would help, would much prefer not to have any other equipment hanging in the tank.

substrate: 15 lbs flourite and 35-40 lbs sand

filter: old fluval 403. Have some peat in the filter, that I'll probably only change when I clean the filter every 6 mos or so.

plants: lightly planted: several hygro (green and pink polysperma) stalks (?); 2 a. congensis; 2 a. nana; 1 a. coffefolia; 3 java fern; 3 small bolbits; 2 strands of hornwort; one amazon sword.

water: ph 6.9 (Going to drop it a little. Planning on rasing discus in the tank. I know people have different opinions about this, but I'm thinking that the low ph helps keep bacteria low and discus happy when you're growing young discus in a planted tank).

kh 2 (this and the rest of the reading were taken two days after a wc. Use AP kits)
gh 6
NO3 a little above 5ppm, maybe 6 or 7. Ammonia and nitrite are O, don't have any other test kits yet.

Tap water is kh 3 and gh 5. I didn't do any wc for the first month, and right now have only been changing about 20% once a week. Once I get the discus, planning on doing 20-25% wc every other day. Have 6 amano shrimp, 2 ottos, 3 neons in there right now, and going to add 1 or 2 (probably 1) SAE and 6 young discus.

Plants look like they're doing well so far, new growth, etc. The "symptoms" with the plants I've noticed so far are, little black tips on some of the congensis leaves; a few black spots on a few of the java fern leaves (ordered most of the plants on-line and the java came with black spots on some of the leaves--a lot but not all of the spots are gone now); a few holes on one coffefolia leaf; rhizome of one nana is rotting (didn't bury it), but it's putting out a bunch of green roots so maybe it will come back. I know the plants are just getting acclimated, but wanted to include whatever info I have-not sure if it's all relevant; sorry that this is so long.

Basically, I trying to figure out what I should be adding to the tank, to set the conditions for the plants to do well (guess that's why people come to this forum







). I've gotten what seems like good advice to consider starting to add potassium (K?), and wanted to see what you all recommend also. Thanks for the help.

steve


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## Guest (May 13, 2003)

Tank: 56g (30x18x24h). Been set up for about 7 weeks and planted for almost 2.

lighting: one 20w Sylvania Gro-lux and one 18w T8 bulb that came with the perfecto hood. The lights are 2 strip lights, one in back of the other

CO2: Not planning on adding any. Even if a DIY system would help, would much prefer not to have any other equipment hanging in the tank.

substrate: 15 lbs flourite and 35-40 lbs sand

filter: old fluval 403. Have some peat in the filter, that I'll probably only change when I clean the filter every 6 mos or so.

plants: lightly planted: several hygro (green and pink polysperma) stalks (?); 2 a. congensis; 2 a. nana; 1 a. coffefolia; 3 java fern; 3 small bolbits; 2 strands of hornwort; one amazon sword.

water: ph 6.9 (Going to drop it a little. Planning on rasing discus in the tank. I know people have different opinions about this, but I'm thinking that the low ph helps keep bacteria low and discus happy when you're growing young discus in a planted tank).

kh 2 (this and the rest of the reading were taken two days after a wc. Use AP kits)
gh 6
NO3 a little above 5ppm, maybe 6 or 7. Ammonia and nitrite are O, don't have any other test kits yet.

Tap water is kh 3 and gh 5. I didn't do any wc for the first month, and right now have only been changing about 20% once a week. Once I get the discus, planning on doing 20-25% wc every other day. Have 6 amano shrimp, 2 ottos, 3 neons in there right now, and going to add 1 or 2 (probably 1) SAE and 6 young discus.

Plants look like they're doing well so far, new growth, etc. The "symptoms" with the plants I've noticed so far are, little black tips on some of the congensis leaves; a few black spots on a few of the java fern leaves (ordered most of the plants on-line and the java came with black spots on some of the leaves--a lot but not all of the spots are gone now); a few holes on one coffefolia leaf; rhizome of one nana is rotting (didn't bury it), but it's putting out a bunch of green roots so maybe it will come back. I know the plants are just getting acclimated, but wanted to include whatever info I have-not sure if it's all relevant; sorry that this is so long.

Basically, I trying to figure out what I should be adding to the tank, to set the conditions for the plants to do well (guess that's why people come to this forum







). I've gotten what seems like good advice to consider starting to add potassium (K?), and wanted to see what you all recommend also. Thanks for the help.

steve


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## Guest (May 14, 2003)

You can use more lighting, about 80-100w.
Also, get some more substrate, around 4 inches or so. Get another bag or two of flourite. 
Add the peat to the very bottom of the substrate.Lots of Anubias in a very slow growing tank with lots of heavily fed Discus: it is a great place for algae to grow. I'd get some faster growers ,like water sprite, some easy to grows tem plants, some floaters etc.

You can try using excel if you are not going to use CO2 gas. Adding CO2 will lower the pH to around 6.4-6.5 or so for your tap water which is the same as my tap water here in Gainesville.
Then you don't need to do so many water change just once a week 50% etc and likely will need to add nutrients like PO4, K, and traces, maybe NO3. Depends on how much you feed the fish, live food or not etc. I've done very well using live brine=> frozen brine and then a mix of good frozen foods(Jack W,Bing's etc).
I will always be leary of live worms no matter what anyone says unless they plan on treating the worms/fish every so often with meds.
My fish never got sick or had any health issues once. Other noted Discus folks always seemed to have some issues that fed worms. The same can be said for other fish as well.

My fish did great and grew well. I'm not after max growth and largest possible sizes for shows either. Few folks are. 4-5 adult fish will be it for this sized tank. Generally, 75-90 gal are min sizes for a group of discus and a group of 7 or more if the tank is larger.

Cramped over fed tanks have bacteria problems. If the tank is fed moderately with less live foods and more frozen/dry, lower stocking levels, good plant growth/health, there is no issue with bacteria as a rule.

I have not used medications in about 15 years. 
Healthy plants= healthy fish.

You can do this either method you choose(CO2 or not or excel or not) but just keep these considerations in mind.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

38 watts over a 24" high 56 gallon tank is what I would consider a "no light tank", not a low light tank. Low light is IMHO 1-1.99 watts per gallon. And when you add the fact that the tank is 24" deep I would take low light for that tank up to about 2.5 wpg. Then consider the fact that with only 55 lbs of substrate in it you must only have an inch at best of substrate so it really is a deep no light tank.

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## Guest (May 14, 2003)

Thanks Tom and Rex for your responses. Rex, even with the light I have now, all the plants are growing--new leaves on all the anubias except the one with the injured rhizome, new plants growing on the java, lots of new hygro growth. Maybe it won't continue, but for now it looks ok. Maybe it's the gro-lux bulb (high PUR, red light? I don't know enough about these factors). Don't know why, but plants seem ok with the light so far. Maybe it helps that both lights cover approx. the same area (strip lights one in front of the other). One thing I'm wondering though is whether you sometimes see good growth for a few weeks initially under inadequate light, and then problems later? Also, gravel depth is 2-3 inches except in the front of the tank (slopes up towards the back, pretty uniform gravel depth throughout most of the rest of the tank. Maybe has to do with the dimesions of the tank (30x18x24--tall tank).

For a few reasons I'd like to try staying with my current light (in large part $$, and also liking low light for the tank, if my plants will be ok), substrate (want to try to not disrupt the tank now), and planned wc schedule, and was wondering, with my current set-up, if you all think it would help to add potasium, other traces? I'm guessing that with my light, lightly planted tank and heavy feeding with the discus, probably won't need NO3 and Phosphate. Money is a factor for me, and was also wondering if you think adding the Flourish Excel would help much with my set-up.

Thanks again.









Steve

[This message was edited by steve on Wed May 14 2003 at 07:38 AM.]


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

You got me on the substrate. That's a really small footprint. The anubias will grow very slowly in that light. Same with the Java fern. I'm betting the hygro will soon die though. It's normal for the plant to put on new growth, using stored nutrients and then die. At your light levels fertilization is not going to make a lot of difference due to the very slow growth you will have. Your fish and water changes should really provide anything your plants need.

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American by birth, Marine by the grace of God! This post spell checked with IESpell available at http://www.iespell.com

See my Profile for tank details.


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