# Baseball 2007



## erijnal

Hey guys, it's the 2007 season and we're just about halfway through with the All-Star rosters pretty much set and trade talks just about beginning.

In the AL, the Red Sox are cruising in the East, the Indians are playing like champs in the Central, the Angels are tearing it up in the West, but Seattle may threaten soon.

For the NL, the Mets are currently 4 games ahead in the East, the Brewers have nothing to worry about in the Central unless the Cubs stay hot, and the West is a game of musical chairs for first place, with the Padres sitting down right now.

How're your teams doing? Want to mention any notable performances this year? Think you know what trades are going to be made? Agree with these rankings?

Let's talk baseball!


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## erijnal

Nobody? Maybe everyone's just a Reds fan =P


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## Burks

Well at least Cleveland has a shot at winning the Central. Granted if they do win, they'll trade off all their good players like they always do. What a great team concept! Cleveland puts too much faith in minor leaguers and "maybes". 


Also......I hate Barry Bonds. Never liked him before, will never like him. He will be the new homerun king, only to himself and those so far up his rear they can't see the light of day.


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## erijnal

lol if they trade Peralta, Sizemore, Sabathia, and Carmona, they're going to be in big trouble. I don't think their management would do that though!

Haha, yeah Bonds is so close now. Think he'll move to play DH in the AL?


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## Burks

I hope he just retires. I'm tired of seeing him sit out against decent pitchers and only going against guys he knows he can hit or rookies. What a wimp.


I remember when the Indians were a major team to be reckoned with. Dad and I would go to multiple games each year. The past few there was no reason to go....booooooring. Oh the days of Charles Nagy, Albert Bell, and THE PLUNKINATOR!!!!


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## nailalc

I'm hoping that somehow Barry will tear up his knee, leaving him a couple of homeruns short of the record. Cheaters do not deserve the record. 

How about those Twins, maybe they can get something together and make a run the Detroit and Cleveland. Although, it's not looking to well against the Yankees tonight.


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## erijnal

nailalc were the newspapers plastered with worried stories about Morneau when he had that bruised lung?


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## hooha

Go Bucs! Wait a sec, they suck  

I'm not that much into baseball, but I'm happy the Yankees are bad as they are despite their huge salaries. And I hope somehow Bonds doesn't break the home run record....


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## nailalc

erijnal said:


> nailalc were the newspapers plastered with worried stories about Morneau when he had that bruised lung?


Not really worried, people were just wondering when he'd return. Especially when you saw the footage of the collision at the plate. It's not like he gave it his all. So after the weak collision, what's a little coughing up blood.

And you have to remember the following: he's Canadian and he used to play hockey. Add those together you realize that he has to be tough.

Ask A-Rod. After a minor collision with Morneau tonight he left the game with a quad strain.


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## cassiusclay

Ha im a brewers fan ive had to suffer through this my whole life just about.i finaly get to see some one on my team START  this hasnt happened since 1988.


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## erijnal

hahaha nailalc, I forgot about him being the big Canadian hockey player.

cassius, maybe this'll be your year! Lot of people talking about Prince Fielder and Ben Sheets.

Personally, my Dodgers aren't doing as well as I'd hoped they would be doing. The Padres have owned us so far this year, but hopefully we can make the adjustment and take more games off them in the second half.


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## Burks

hooha said:


> I'm not that much into baseball, but I'm happy the Yankees are bad as they are despite their huge salaries.


That's what happens when you sign people with egos the same size as their contract!


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## mikenas102

Burks said:


> THE PLUNKINATOR!!!!


WOW! Eric Plunk

As a Yankee fan I'll never quite understand why so many people, especially those who aren't really baseball fans, hate the Yankees for being who they are. Honestly, I chalk it up to jealousy. People form opinions without really taking a deeper look into the subject. Take George Steinbrenner for example. I think George Steinbrenner is the greatest owner in the history of baseball. If every owner were a true FAN of the game like he is the sport would be doing alot better. How many owners out there are willing to spend ALL the teams income and even LOSE THEIR OWN MONEY to be able to field a WINNING TEAM? Would you rather have a team like the Pirates, Brewers (until this year) or the Orioles whose owners prefer to pocket the revenue sharing and luxury tax money instead of fielding a better team for you, the fan, to enjoy the game? With the revenue sharing and luxury tax systems in place I don't want to hear ANY teams crying about they can't afford to field a competitive team. Too many owners expect the fans to fill the stadium and increase revenue before the team goes out and gets the talent that people want to see. That's not how it works. A guy like Steinbrenner was willing to take the risk and spend the money BEFORE the fans came out in masses. As a lifelong Yankee fan I remember the 80's and early 90's when the Yankees sucked and nobody went to the Stadium. With Steinbrenner's investment and dedication to the team the Yankees now draw over 4 million fans a year (for several years in a row now) and average 53,000 fans a game. Find me another team that can make that claim. I also don't think too many other teams owners cry when the Yankees come to town and the stadium that had been averaging 20,000 fans a game now sells out 55,000 seats for 3 games in a row (ask the Rockies 2 weeks ago). Look at the success Arte Moreno has had pulling the Angels out of the trash heap and turning them into perennial contenders by doing exactly the type of things Steinbrenner did.

Now as for egos as big as their salaries lets again take an honest, deeper look. The Yankees traded for A-Rod. They are not responsible for signing him to that contract. That was the Texas Rangers' work. In fact the Rangers still pay almost $9 million of his contract every year. That means the Yankees pay $16 mil per year for the best player in baseball. In baseball terms that is the greatest bargain in the game. Would your team take A-Rod for $16 mil a year? Find me one that won't.

Jason Giambi: Overpaid? Yes. Ego? No. Many people on the inside claim as much as 50% of everybody in baseball was juicing just a few years ago. How many current players have come forward and even hinted of an apology for what they did? 1 player. Jason Giambi. Although he has never clearly admitted anything, he is light years ahead of anything any other current player has done. His latest half-apology was not met with applause by baseball but by threatened suspension. Who are really the bad guys now? Giambi has manned up more than anybody in the game.

Clemens: Overpaid if based only on performance on the field thus far (but he's getting stronger). As far as revenue created, another bargain. Doesn't your team wish they could sell millions of licensed jerseys with CLEMENS on the back or sell out every ticket to every game he pitches?

Jeter: One of the best role models in the game. Incredibly clutch. Proven champion. Always among the league leaders in hitting. What can you say bad about the guy?

Now you may dislike them because they beat your team all the time, but anybody who claims to hate the Yanks because of the money they spend needs to look no further than the owner of their team. Ask Pirate fans who plan to all walk out of the game in the third inning of an upcoming game as a protest to ownership. Look deeper into the true facts of what is going on. Don't be jealous.


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## erijnal

Payrolls differences are actually becoming less of an issue. Granted, there was a difference of $50 million between the Yankees and the next closest team (the Red Sox), but at least 7 teams had a payroll in excess of $100 million.

Also, I'm guessing that another factor into payroll differences becoming smaller is the fact that the market for players is ridiculous now. The free-agent market doesn't make sense to me anymore, except for the fact that ticket prices will continue to go up as teams bow to the outrageous demands of free-agents. 


By the way, anyone have predictions for how the playoffs will turn out? Who'll be the division leaders, the wild cards, and who'll be in the world series?

At this point, Red Sox, Angels, and Indians for the AL division leaders, with Detroit for the wild card. My dark horse would be Mariners.

For the NL, Mets, Cubs, Dodgers, with the Padres for the wild card. My dark horse for either the NL West or wild card would be the Diamondbacks. When I exclude the Brewers, I'm just not sure if they'll be able to sustain what they're doing for the entire season, so I'm taking a chance on the Cubbies.

Angels vs Dodgers world series anybody? hahhahahah that'd be awesome, even though the Halos have owned us in interleague


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## Minsc

Personally I hate the Yankees because I'm from Boston, and because the amount of money they spend allows them to consistently have championship caliber teams without relying on their farm system at all. Something no other team has the ability to do. Also, with team members like Clemens, A-rod and recently Sheffield, they have been a very easy team to dislike.

That said, Steinbrenner has done more to raise the level of competition in baseball than anyone else.
Simply put, if you want a championship ring, you have to be able to beat the Yankees, through young player development, crafty trades, luck or what have you. 

Anyway, I'm loving this season, the Sox have the best record in baseball, with a team that hasn't even clicked yet. Look for them to be an unholy terror when the veterans wake up and remember how to hit a ball


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## mikenas102

Minsc said:


> Also, with team members like Clemens, A-rod and recently Sheffield, they have been a very easy team to dislike.


I don't understand why Boston dislikes Clemens so much. He did nothing but win for them. It was the Red Sox who chose not to re-sign him when his contract was up. I believe the GM at the time said he was in the twilight of his career and wasn't worth a long term deal. They didn't offer him a contract. How could you be mad at him? Then when he showed everybody how good he was with Toronto and NY, the Sox wanted him back but he wouldn't go because they already insulted and doubted him there. You can't have it both ways.


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## IceH2O

nailalc said:


> I'm hoping that somehow Barry will tear up his knee, leaving him a couple of homeruns short of the record. Cheaters do not deserve the record.


Even if Bonds did use steroids like McGwire and Sosa did during their 70+ hr run years it was not cheating.

To cheat you need to break rules. There were no rules against using steroids.

Players are going to do whatever it takes to make them better then other players.

What if we found out Randy Johnson, I used RJ because for the life of me I can't think of a good Twins pitcher, drank Red Bulls between innings, then years later they made power drinks illegal. Does that mean any records he had during those years shouldn't count?


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## erijnal

> What if we found out Randy Johnson, I used RJ because for the life of me I can't think of a good Twins pitcher, drank Red Bulls between innings, then years later they made power drinks illegal. Does that mean any records he had during those years shouldn't count?


Just thought I'd throw this out there, players used amphetamines (what you'd find in cold medicine and power drinks probably) to help get rid of fatigue during games, but that has recently been banned in the last year.

I think the thing people have against steroids is that they believe it contributes much more significantly in terms of enhancing performance. I personally have no take on the issue. If a player used steroids, ultimately what they did is shorten their own careers because of the negative effects it has on the body.

Back to actual baseball,



> Anyway, I'm loving this season, the Sox have the best record in baseball, with a team that hasn't even clicked yet. Look for them to be an unholy terror when the veterans wake up and remember how to hit a ball


Who're the veterans you're talking about that are having off seasons so far? Also, just curious, what's your personal take on Matsuzaka?

Btw, mikenas, good points, all there. We'll see if Clemens can ramp it up. He's been OK so far, but nothing spectacular.


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## mikenas102

IceH2O said:


> Even if Bonds did use steroids like McGwire and Sosa did during their 70+ hr run years it was not cheating.
> 
> To cheat you need to break rules. There were no rules against using steroids.


But sterroids are against the LAW in the US without a legit prescription. Baseball probably figured there was no need for a rule since there was already a law. I was a huge McGwire fan since he hit 49 HR's in 1987 as a rookie for the A's. I still have hundreds of his baseball cards stuffed away in the closet somewhere. Now however I have to view (in my mind) Roger Maris as the HR champ. Anybody that has eclipsed the 61 mark has all but been caught red-handed with roids (McGwire, Sosa, Bonds).


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## nailalc

IceH2O said:


> To cheat you need to break rules. There were no rules against using steroids.


Agreed, MLB did not outlaw steroids. The point is that you cannot compare the career achievements of players of different eras when it is assumed that one of them was using a performance enhancing supplement. I'm not even talking about all of the armor that today's players wear when compared to past players. Too bad Griffey was hurt in the early 2000s, that is a player who aged appropriately and would have been fun to watch go after Aaron.



IceH2O said:


> What if we found out Randy Johnson, I used RJ because for the life of me I can't think of a good Twins pitcher


Ummm.....excuse me, maybe you've heard about the two-time (2004, 2006) Cy Young award winner and three-time all-star (2005, 2006, 2007) Johan Santana. If not, you should watch more baseball.


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## IceH2O

nailalc said:


> Ummm.....excuse me, maybe you've heard about the two-time (2004, 2006) Cy Young award winner and three-time all-star (2005, 2006, 2007) Johan Santana. If not, you should watch more baseball.


I meant from the past before the roids scandal started.

No disrespect for Santana, usually try to get him on my fantasy teams.


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## nailalc

IceH2O said:


> No disrespect for Santana, usually try to get him on my fantasy teams.


I would try to get him on fantasy teams as well. Especially after the All-Star break, the past four seasons after break he is 45-10 with a 2.55 ERA. When his contract is up, he's going to make Zito's contract look small.


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## Minsc

mikenas102 said:


> I don't understand why Boston dislikes Clemens so much.


Boston fans only have enough room in their hearts for one egotistical prima donna pitcher at once.
Pedro took over for Clemens, Shilling took over for Pedro

Honestly though, the casual Boston fan still appreciates Clemens. He got a huge standing ovation on his "final" start for the Yankees, in 2003 I believe? The crotchety old diehard Boston fans hate everyone and everything, especially anyone who has ever been paid by the Yankees.

Erijnal: Manny, Ortiz, Lugo and Crisp are all having years that range between mediocre and awful so far. Youkilis, Lowell and even Pedroia seem to be the ones who have been getting the most timely hits and keeping the team on track. The entire lineup slumped for all of June.

If you know where I can find stats like run averages per month, I'd love to see it. I'm pretty sure the Sox averaged around 2 for June.

As for Matsuzaka, it is a bit early to make predictions, but I won't be surprised if he wins a couple Cy Youngs in the next few years. So far he gives up 4-6 runs on his off days, and pitches 7 innings.
On his good days he gives up 1 or 2 over 8-9 innings. The guy has an incredible rubber arm, he argues to stay in the game after throwing 120 pitches!


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## Burks

They should make a cutoff for dates between old era baseball and new era. Back in Babe Ruth's day the batters didn't come up looking like knights of the Middle Ages, clad in armor and ready for battle. Did they use steroids back then? No. What were their steroids? Talent and a lot of food!

Honestly I wouldn't want Clemens or A-Rod on my team. They might be damn good players, but they aren't team players. Giambi and Jeter, any day of the week. I'd rather give Jeter A-Rod's salary and tell A-Rod to hit the road. I don't give a damn about the Yankees, so no need to go on a tirade about "your team selling jerseys" and blah blah blah. 

It is too bad Griffey has had the injury bug for the past few years. He's always hurt but still manages some decent numbers.


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## mikenas102

That whole body armor thing really needs to be addressed. Bonds and David Ortiz look ridiculous with all that crap on. Why even bother to get out of the way of an inside pitch if all it's going to hit is all that crap you're wearing. Bad enough there are so many tiny ballparks these days, then they go and pretty much take the chin music away from a pitchers arsenal.


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## Burks

Anyone else consider the Homerun Derby last night a complete snoozefest? Talk about boring.

I miss the days when the real sluggers were in the competition.....

On the topic of homeruns, anyone remember the old homerun show? Two batters would go head to head. I can't remember the exact format but it was before most of us were born (including myself). Used to watch it on ESPN Classic all the time.


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## mikenas102

I remember that Homerun Derby they use to show on ESPN Classic. Some real baseball legends would be on that show. I remember seeing Hank Aaron compete a few times. Killebrew also seemed to be on alot. All of today's HR derbys are garbage. The players aren't into it and it shows. It's too long. HR's are fun to watch but not for 2 or 3 hours. Maybe if Bonds and A-Rod were in it there would have been a little more interest.


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## Crocodylus

Lets go Padres!!!


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## erijnal

Boo Padres =D

It was really weird seeing Brad Penny and Jake Peavy having a good conversation in the dugout today..


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## snowhillbilly

On a lighter note I would like to congratulate all the great players in the MLB. If they weren't great they would be playing minor league ball and swinging at grapefruits. Barry Bonds I just want to say bravo for keeping yourself in shape to still be an asset to your team. Arod way to go for living in America and living your dream. If you think Arod gets paid to much put the shoe on the other foot, The only person limiting your own salary is you. 

Is everyone ready for Santana to become a Yankee. I heard him in an interview talking about wanting to wear the pin stripes. 

Are you going to start hating on Justin Morneau when he goes somewhere else and signs a contract for a 100 million, because you know the Twins cant afford him when he resigns.

I could rant and rave about baseball and its unsportsmanlike players and FANS all day, but I think Ill just sit back and catch another game. Oh btw I didnt hear anyone complaining about the fat old umpires that get paid from 60k to 110k a year. Most of them cant even bend over and call a good strike or ball anymore.


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## snowhillbilly

I forgot to mention my opinion on the steroids LOL, but last I checked these guys all have a bat in there hand hitting. I didnt know steroids improved hand eye coordination. I think the reaction time of hitting a major league fast ball is around 3 hundred thousands of a second from the time it leave the pitchers hand. 

I could be wrong but wasn't the fuss about the steroids actually HGH. Last I checked you could by that at GNC without a prescription.


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## nailalc

snowhillbilly said:


> Is everyone ready for Santana to become a Yankee. I heard him in an interview talking about wanting to wear the pin stripes.
> 
> Are you going to start hating on Justin Morneau when he goes somewhere else and signs a contract for a 100 million, because you know the Twins cant afford him when he resigns.


Not so fast there hillbilly. My bet is the Twins will sign both Morneau and Santana, because they've already been listed as #1 priorities over the next few years. Of course Hunter will be gone in order to spend the cash. Remember, the Twins are building a new stadium and they will need the top players for that stadium.


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## Burks

snowhillbilly said:


> I could be wrong but wasn't the fuss about the steroids actually HGH. Last I checked you could by that at GNC without a prescription.


Completely false beyond belief. That crap in a bottle is NOT HGH. If it was real HGH, they wouldn't be able to keep it on the freaking shelves. That stuff is a gimmick to sucker people out of their money, it's a SCAM.

Real HGH is illegal without a doctor's prescription. Know where most of the HGH comes from? China. Why? It's easy to get past customs and is high quality.

You tell me where I can buy quality injectable HGH at a GNC and I'll show you a pink elephant that craps German Blue Rams.

Edit: Yeah steroids can't make you put the bat to the ball but they can help the bat get there faster and with more power. Bonds is a great hitter, no doubt about it. But there are some things that just make you go hmm...


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## erijnal

Any other teams that look to lose some key players at the end of the year? Some names have surfaced as the trade deadline looms near, but I'm sure that the local fans have a better idea of what's going on than what I've skimmed through

I know that the Dodgers may not do much because we're hoping that our younger players will mature during the second half and provide the power we've been looking for. Also, Pierre has started doing what the two-hole man should be doing, so that's good to see. Furcal is eh... and our pitching... oh man... we'll see.

Btw, liked the 7 game suspension that Wells received =P


I haven't addressed the steroids or HGH issue until now because baseball is still baseball. I think a lot of people fail to consider that although we focus on how performance-enhancing drugs could have helped hitters, they also could have helped the pitchers. In other words, although we may have seen a slightly different brand of baseball, it was still baseball.

It'd be nice if we could keep steroids/HGH/amphetamines/etc out of this thread and hopefully focus on more current/relevant events during the 2007 season. Of course, Barry's approaching setting of the home run record is coming up, but it seems we've all expressed our opinion/suspicions on that subject, so hopefully no more bashing on that.


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## Burks

Depending on their use, steroids effect people differently.

Pitchers will use them to speed up their recovery after an injury, be able to pitch at a sooner date and more rested, and to prevent injury. These effects aren't seen as much as hitters. Pitchers do not want to gain muscle mass as it can effect their throwing motion, which is more critical than hitting motion.

Baseball is no longer "just baseball". Only on paper it is.


Wells got what he deserved. Although 7 games might have been a bit excessive.


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## snowhillbilly

This is still a great thread. I agree lets drop the steroids and forget that baseball ever had a drug problem. LOL After all its the American way. Sweep this subject under the rug

I really hope that the Twins can keep everyone. Living in North Dakota I have enjoyed watching the twinkies play. Its also fun listening to the politics of getting a new stadium built. Now for my picks this year I have to say the Braves, but IM A FAN, honestly look out for the Brewers, Padres, NYY, and Boston.


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## erijnal

Ichiro signed a 5 year, $90 million contract. I personally think he's worth every penny because of the way he plays his position, and how perfectly he fits into the lead-off role. 

At the same time, I'm a little wary of contracts like this because of what happened in the off-season. Contracts that were in excess of $10 million were commonplace and were given to players whose deservedness was certainly questionable. Where exactly are organizations going to get the money to pay for these contracts? My fear is that they'll simply jack up ticket and parking prices to cover the gap. For example, Dodger stadium upped its parking price from 8 dollars to 15 dollars in a single season, as well as upping ticket prices of the infield reserve by 2 dollars (I'm not sure about other seats). If that keeps up I won't be able to attend very many Dodger games during college...

As for the Twins (there seem to be a lot of Twins fans on this forum lol), I think it'd be great to see the team keep Torii Hunter, even though it sounds unlikely at this point. It's so sad to see how fans in general are forced to cheer for the uniform, not the player because of how often players move from team to team in order to get as much money as possible =/. Jason Schmidt moving from the Giants to the Dodgers is a perfect example... Jackie Robinson preferred retiring rather than being dealt to the Giants! I'm hoping we'll see player loyalty to the team revive in the future... if they keep developing, seeing Russell Martin, Matt Kemp, Andre Ethier, James Loney, and Tony Abreu all become lifetime Dodgers... that'd be awesome


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## erijnal

Cubs, Yankees, Tigers, and Dodgers are the hottest teams right now. Looks like Brewer's fans have something to worry about after all, what with the Cubs surging in July. Also, even though it seemed like the Yankees wouldn't be anywhere near the playoff chase, they're *only* 7.5 behind the Red Sox right now, and if they keep playing the way they've been playing, that gap is only going to get smaller. Dodgers have been scoring a lot of runs lately, but it's been against the Phillies and Mets, both of whom have suspect starting pitching, so we'll see if they can keep that consistent. Tigers have been a really scary team recently, and have the best record in the AL at the moment.

Mark Buerhle is off the market now that the White Sox have extended his contract, and the rest of the trading looks to be rather dull, what with the exception of interest in Teixeira.

Looking down the road, it doesn't seem like any division is locked up by any team, so we can genuinely hope for exciting finishes before October ball! Personally, the one team I'd especially love to see in the playoffs would be Seattle.


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## Crocodylus

Who would have tought the D-backs would be in first this late in the season without the Big Unit??!!

Hope the players we got to 'upgrade' the team will pan out... Go Padres and Chargers!!! (sorry you cant cheer for an LA NFL team erijnal )


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## erijnal

hahhaha shut up Crocodylus =D

I'm curious to see how your trades work out though. Apparently Hoffman isn't too happy about how much the team has changed in the last month, implying that the clubhouse "feel" might be way different. Barrett, Milton, Ensberg were the big names you got right? Getting rid of Linesbrink was the weirdest thing... all it did was weaken the bullpen didn't it? Myself, I'm hoping Proctor won't turn out to be a damaged good like Schmidt was. Speaking of trades... Atlanta looks scary

Yeah... the D-backs chose a great time to go on an 8-game winning streak. We'll see if they can keep it up. Everyone says youth will implode, but so far so good for Arizona.


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## Robert Hudson

When the baseball commissioner and baseball management say the steroids issue just came to light in the last few years their full of it. Everybody knew Jose Conseco was pumped up back in the early 80s. He was constantly being accused of it in the media. Bonds went from a mediocre performance to someone on fire overnight. How blind and stupid is baseball management? Bonds should be kicked out of baseball or at the very least banned from the hall of fame

This is the year for the Red Sox again. I don't think anyone will beat them. They have never had such a strong pitching staff in their entire history, and their pool of talent overall for them to draw from is impressive. Their 2nd string players are almost as good as their 1st string.


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## Crocodylus

Without hard evidence (i.e. other big name players talking to the grand jury) Bonds will never be banned, thats sad but true. There's an unwritten rule in the BPA community, you don't rock the boat, specially in this day and age of the multimillion dollar contracts. Sucks that Bonds will soon be the new home run king, but it will be short lived, since A-Rod will break it in a few years, and to my knowledge, he hasn't been tainted by the steroid scandal, only the infidelity one 

As for the Red Sox being the best team this year in BB... i agree, but don't count out the Angels just yet; in the old circuit there are no dominant teams so its going to be interesting to see who goes against the AL. Atm with my Pads struggling all i can say is thank god for NFL season.. first pregame this Sunday vs. the Seahawks. 

Cheers


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## erijnal

Oh man... the Dodgers have forgotten how to win of late...

Anyone see St. Louis's 10-run 5th inning Monday night? Funniest thing I've ever seen, considering it happened against the Fathers =D

Soriano's out... ouch. Maybe this is the opportunity for the Cards to make the NL Central juuust a smidge more interesting. Detroit finally won one (against the D-rays lol). Mariners won an interesting series against the Angels, while the Mets and Braves start their series on Tuesday. Meanwhile, Yankees gain another game on the BoSox and are a half-game out of the wildcard!


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## Burks

I get to go watch my first MLB game in about three years on September 1st. Cleveland Indians vs Chicago White Sox!

Woo-hoo! Although I'd rather go watch the Tennessee Smokies....the Indians will work just as well.  

A-Rod will be the next homerun king. That's a player I can respect. Now if he suddenly goes from his size to the size of Bonds in a year or two....then we can ask questions.


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## Crocodylus

erijnal said:


> Oh man... the Dodgers have forgotten how to win of late...
> 
> Anyone see St. Louis's 10-run 5th inning Monday night? Funniest thing I've ever seen, considering it happened against the Fathers =D


They are still 2 games ahead of the LA Losers after all that.. i'll take my pitching over your hitting anytime, whats the head to head record this year? 7-5 Padres? What was the tie breaker criteria last year? head to head.. what was the record? 12-7 Padres.. so I'm still cool 

Go Chargers! Go Padres! Go Celtics! Go Penguins!


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## erijnal

Hey hey! No fair on the pitching jibe! LA's pitching rotation was top-notch until Schmidt and Wolf blew up with shoulder problems. Imagine a healthy rotation of Penny, Lowe, Schmidt, Wolf, and Billingsley.. daaang.. Peavy was lights out for most of the first half but he hasn't been doing very well of late (excluding his most recent pitched game). Young's still on the DL right? Wells has struggled also, and Germano is doing a decent job. Maddux as always has been consistent and reliable, but he's old and getting hit, and the Padres offense doesn't help him out very much

Watch... Dodger Blue is gonna patch up another 17 game winning streak sometime soon =D. I don't understand how Arizona's in first place with a run differential of -29.

Burks, any AL Central matchup is bound to be interesting, even though the White Sox seem out of it right now.. I wish I could watch that game!


You know what... I'm really surprised that no Mets or Braves fans have voiced themselves in this thread. You'd think that a baseball thread would have attracted a good-natured argument between those two by now, especially with the Braves's new acquisitions and their current second-place standing


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## Cavan Allen

What a shame. Barry Bonds is a cheater plain and simple. People's heads and feet don't rapidly expand later in life like that and players don't get better as they age. He has no place in the record books and certainly not in the Hall of Fame. If he did, would they have a bust of the pre-steroids Barry or an extra large one of Mr. Balco? 

Game of Shadows was a good read.


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## erijnal

Any of you Minnesota fans catch Santana's 17 K performance?


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## nailalc

erijnal said:


> Any of you Minnesota fans catch Santana's 17 K performance?


I didn't get a chance to watch the game, but I listened to it on the radio while driving back from Iowa. It was one of those games that you knew something was going to happen, because Santana had his stuff working from the beginning. And with the Twin's offense being not so good as of late, Santana had to have known that the one run he was given was about all he'd get.

It was an amazing run the few innings. Santana struck out the side in the seventh and the eighth to give him the 17 Ks. The part that shows he's a team player is that on the way back to the dugout after the eighth, he tipped his hat to the full house, acknowledging that his job was done and it was Nathan's turn to do his job, be the closer. This with an outside chance that if he could strike out the side in the ninth, he'd share the all-time strikeout mark in a game. Like I said, a team player, interested in wins.


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## goalcreas

Just found this thread and did not read it all, but here it goes.

I am a BIG ANGELS fan, always have always will.
I am also a BIG DUCKS fan, always have always will.

I predicted a month and a half back that the Angels will lose the world series this year.
They are still on pace to make it, so I may just be right about that.

My reason is in 2002 when the Angels won the world series, the Ducks lost the Stanley Cup, and this year the Ducks won the Stanley Cup so I go with the Angels to lose the Worls Series.

Of course if they do make it, I will still root and hope that I am wrong and they take it allllllllllll Home BABY


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## erijnal

Sprint for October ball! About 25 games left for every team!

Looks like playoff berths are virtually clinched in the AL with: Boston Red Sox, Cleveland Indians, Anaheim Angels (I refuse to call them LA Angels =D). In the NL, only the Mets look to have sealed their division, but we'll see what the Phillies do

NL Central is up for grabs, let's see if the division leader finishes above .500 haha...
NL West is tight between the D-backs and Padres, with the Dodgers and Rockies needing a hot September if they want to play October ball
AL Wildcard also is up for grabs, Mariners, Yanks, and Tigers haven't been playing like playoff contenders
NL Wildcard is going to come from the NL West, unless the Phillies get real hot


I'm a Dodger's fan, and as much as it hurts me to say it, it will probably come down to the Padres and Red Sox for the World Series. Both teams have great rotations, and that should pull them through the divisional and championship series.

Dodgers have shored up their rotation with Loaiza and Wells, though, so we'll see what happens!


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## Crocodylus

erijnal said:


> I'm a Dodger's fan, and as much as it hurts me to say it, it will probably come down to the Padres and Red Sox for the World Series. Both teams have great rotations, and that should pull them through the divisional and championship series.


I'm glad to read that you finally came to your senses  Where I'm sitting at the moment, I can almost see another Western Division Flag in our future (3rd. in a row yeah!!!) This last road trip will determine that to some extent... 3 in Arizona, 3 in Colorado and 3 up in Chavez ravine, if we can go say 6-3 i like our chances. Only team i'm afraid of come play-off time are the Mets, If they get Pedro back they will have the short series pitching to go along with their hitting.. Yikes! But thats a little away down the road. For the moment lets sweat it out and begin getting into Football mode 

GO Padres!!! Go Chargers!!!


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## mikenas102

All AL leaders will stay as they are. Yankees will easily win the wild card by months end. In the NL, Mets take the East, Cubs take the Central and San Diego takes the West (though barely). I was hoping the Dodgers or Phillies could at least get the NL wildcard. I really don't want to see Arizona or Milwaukee in the palyoffs. I can't stand either of those teams. The Mets are not as strong as people give them credit for. The hitting is a little over-rated and the pitching is EXTREMELY over-rated, with or without Pedro. Their bullpen is a disaster. All the Mets pitching #'s still look good because their pitching was good in the first half. Second half they have been a disaster. The only team in the NL I can see having a chance of beating any of the AL playoff teams is the Padres. Even that is questionable. Their SP is outstanding but they hit like a AA team. Peavy and Young would have to throw shutouts throughout the World Series for the Pads to beat an AL team.


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## erijnal

Scratch what I said about the Fathers. If Chris Young isn't right, that team is in big trouble. Peavy is the only one who will give you a very high chance of winning. Maddux is only effective if he's absolutely perfect, otherwise he'll give up 4-5 runs every outing, and the Padres won't consistently have the firepower to overcome that

Why the Padres would sign Brett Tomko is a mystery to me. Paying money to have runs scored against you, sounds smart! Oh well, can't complain =D


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## mikenas102

If the season ended today who are your MVP's? I have to go with A-Rod over Ordonez. The NL is so wide open you could make a good case for about 10 different players.


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## erijnal

For A-rod or Ordonez, it's whoever's team gets the wild card. All other things even though, I'd go with Magglio, simply because the supporting cast around A-rod offsets the singular impact he makes in New York. Everyone talks about how Vladimir Guerrero is ignored, but let's face it, it's not as if he's having a spectacular year, or even carrying the Angels. He's certainly the most feared batter, but that's it

I'd also give J.J. Putz consideration in the AL. Without him the Mariners wouldn't be anywhere in the chase right now


If the Cardinals got to the playoffs, I'd vote for Rick Ankiel. Cards were on life-support before he came up. Now that Juan Encarnacion is out with that really unfortunate eye injury, Ankiel plays every day and makes a big impact with his power. I think he'll carry that team to the top of the NL Central.

Or.... David Wells takes the MVP just because of his drag-bunt single HAHAHAHAHAH


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## mikenas102

If only the Marlins were a halfway decent team Hanley Ramirez would easily be the most obvious choice. I choose A-Rod over Ordonez because when the Yanks were terrible in April and May he single handedly kept them from being beyond rescue. He had to be responsible for at least 10-12 wins in those 2 months alone. Without him the Yankees would be 7-8 games back of the wild card right now.


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## erijnal

Why Hanley Ramirez? I've only heard his name in passing a few times, and I just checked his numbers. They're pretty good but what makes him MVP-worthy?

When I think Marlins, the only name that comes to mind is Miguel Cabrera... and maybe Dontrelle Willis lol


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## mikenas102

People always make such a big deal about Jose Reyes and how he could be MVP beacause of his #'s and how he's such a table setter. Hanley Ramirez has better #'s in every category except SB and triples. Ramirez is 2nd in the NL in hits, 3rd in SB's, has 24 HR's (as a SS), 2nd in runs scored, and 4th in BA (.333 avg). He'll never get MVP on the Marlins but with any other team he's almost a shoe-in. Many people make a good case for Holliday but Ramirez's #'s are all nearly equal or better. Go Here and check out their #'s side by side.


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## Burks

I think they'll play to the fan favorite of A-Rod. His numbers are great, his teams got a chance for the playoffs, and New York (currently) loves him. If the Yankees at least make the playoffs he's pretty much a shoe-in.


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## mikenas102

A-Rod is far from a fan favorite. Outside of NY he gets viciously booed everywhere he goes. He's the type of player that if he not on your team, you're likely to boo him. Why? I don't know. But I'm a huge Yankee fan and catch almost every game. I've never heard him cheered anywhere except Yankee Stadium.


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## mikenas102

BTW, Hanley Ramirez had 4 more HR in just the past week. He's going to end up with over 200 hits, 30 HR's, 50 SB's, an avg around .330, 120+ runs scored. He has 72 RBI's as a leadoff hitter. I'm sure Boston wishes they never traded him. He's got to be the NL MVP.


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## erijnal

What a shame about Rick Ankiel. Right after the story comes out, the Cards go into a tailspin too


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## Minsc

A-Rod is booed everywhere because he is a whiny, cheating POS.
He is however, one of the most talented batters ever and clearly the AL MVP.

I think I just nauseated myself typing that.

As for Hanley Ramirez, the trade was for Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell.
I would take that trade again any day of the week.

This weekend is going to be fun, I really hope Clemens gets to start sunday.
There is no way he can have a repeat performance of his last start vs. Boston.
(knock on wood)


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## mikenas102

Minsc said:


> A-Rod is booed everywhere because he is a whiny, cheating POS.


?? I think Youkilis is the biggest whining crybaby in baseball. Exactly what is it that A-Rod whines about? Was he whining when the Red Sox were desperately trying to trade for him years ago? Come on. This was intelligent conversation until your reply.


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## Minsc

Since when is insulting A-Rod unintelligent? You asked why he is constantly booed.
It's because HE CHEATS. He is well known for stealing signs, he slaps balls out of people's hands, he yells "I got it" as he rounds the bases, he elbows second basemen in the groin...
Need I find more examples?
And when he gets called out for any of this, he yells and screams and looks like he is going to cry.

For the record, I've never wanted A-Rod, and might stop supporting Boston if he ever ends up here.
Although I managed to forgive acquiring David Wells, so I might be able to overlook A-Rod as well.

Since you bring it up, what is up with the Youkilis hate? That is the one I just don't get.


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## erijnal

IMO, all the things that you listed are examples of gamesmanship more than cheating. I bet baseball players are all laughing at the Patriot's stealing signs, because it happens in baseball all the time.

Remember Marlon Anderson's slide into Tadahito Iguchi at second base? Anderson was called out for the slide, and that could technically be called an attempt at cheating, but more than anything else it was gamesmanship. One third base coach was incredulous over the "I got it" controversy, because he said any player who wants to win will try to muck up lines of communication. If anything, that means you should throw out any fan who yells or screams when an opposing player is setting up under a pop fly. Then again, the line between gamesmanship and cheating is very thin and very blurry.

In any case, seems like A-rod's just an easy target because of the talent he has and the greenbacks he commands.

Biggest whiner for me would be Zambrano =). Did you guys see Roy Oswalt toying with him about a month ago? hahahaha that was classic


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## mikenas102

Minsc said:


> Since when is insulting A-Rod unintelligent? You asked why he is constantly booed.
> It's because HE CHEATS. He is well known for stealing signs, he slaps balls out of people's hands, he yells "I got it" as he rounds the bases, he elbows second basemen in the groin...
> Need I find more examples?
> And when he gets called out for any of this, he yells and screams and looks like he is going to cry.


The unintelligent part is making a statement like that and not being able to support it with ACCURATE facts. AS far as yelling "I got it", do a google search or check YouTube, the video is probably there somewhere. There are plenty of close up shots and audio that prove he never yelled 'I got it'. Actually all he yelled was "HA". Watch the video. Hear the audio. If you can't catch a ball with 1 guy yelling HA how do you catch a ball with 40,000 fans yelling at the same time? It's gamesmanship. Much like a first baseman talking the ear off a runner on base trying to distract him so the pitcher can pick him off. Or the old hidden ball trick by a first or second baseman. Is the hidden ball trick cheating too? To be fair, if A-Rod ever did yell "I got it" I would agree that that is crossing the line. Elbowing 2B in the groin? That nearly happens every time someone tries to break up a double play. Most often the 2B is airborn for the throw. If he lands with his groin near your elbow who's fault is it? I've never heard A-Rod once being accused of trying to steal signs. I'm one of the biggest baseball fans you'll find. If I've never heard him being accused of it, how is it well known? A-Rod is booed because of the money he makes. Not because of any of the reasons you listed. In Boston he's booed because THEY"RE JEALOUS.:boxing:

Youkilis is a baby. Must we count how many times Jeter has been hit high by Boston pitchers for years now? He always jogs to first like a professional. It's part of the game. Chamberlain throws 2 pitches high and tight to Youkilis and he cries like a little leaguer causing the ump to throw out Chamberlain without a warning. How about when Youkilis was running from 2B to 3rd and he ran out of the basepath and ONTO THE GRASS to avoid a tag, gets immediatley called out by the ump and goes into a crying tirade on the field. Then wherever Boston went after the Yanks swept them, Youkilis got hit by a pitch and threw another tantrum. It became such a pattern that even Sportscenter made it a point of showing it.


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## mikenas102

erijnal: Did you see that interview with Landanian Tomlinson when they asked what he felt about the situation. He started giggling and said he always thought the Patriots motto was "you're not trying if you ain't cheatin". The fact of the matter is he was laughing. I agree the players all think it's a joke. Maybe with the exception of the Jets players. But they suck anyway. 

I must have missed the thing with Zambrano and Oswalt. What happened there? I think I saw enough of Zambrano when he criticised the fans for booing him. That told me enough right there.


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## Minsc

I was about to type a lengthy retort concerning A-Rod, Chamberlain, umpires decisions, etc...

But I doubt very many people want to hear endless Red Sox/Yankees banter.
If anyone does, I'm just a PM away...

I will comment that things like stealing signs, going into second hard, trying to avoid tags can definitely be considered gamesmanship. However, when other players use the term "bush league", it is probably crossing the line.

Speaking of whining, did anyone see Daniel Cabrera's hissy fit after being called for a balk?
That was a classic!


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## mikenas102

Daniel Cabrera has the talent to be absolutely electric but even his own pitching coach admits he has alot of growing up to do. He won't listen to his coaches about mechanics, etc. He's got one of the best pitching coaches in the game. Too bad he won't take advantage of that. In 10 years he'll look back and realize how great he could of been if his ego didn't get in the way all those years.


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## erijnal

Mike, before reading, keep in mind that about a month ago Zambrano had a hot bat =]

Zambrano's first at-bat: Oswalt gets him looking, Zambrano stares at Oswalt and gives him an acknowledging nod as if to say "good pitch. Oswalt is smiling as he watches Zambrano walk back to the dugout

Zambrano's second at-bat: Oswalt gets him swinging, Zambrano slams the bat into the dirt. Oswalt is straight up smirking this time as Zambrano goes to the dugout

Zambrano's third at-bat: Again swinging, and Zambrano breaks his bat over his knee. Oswalt looks like he's about to crap himself laughing. 


When I saw it on Baseball Tonight, I cracked up when they showed Oswalt's reaction to the strikeouts



By the way, if there was any Boston/NY smack about to be thrown around, at least there's no Braves and Mets smack talk. I think that rivalry is worse in terms of fans ripping each other apart 

David Wells just hit a double hahahhahahahah


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## mikenas102

Tonights Yankee-Red Sox game=terrible. One of the worst played, sloppy, dragged out games in a long, long time. Of course it ended better for me than it did for Minsc. The game still doesn't matter much though. Best parts of the game were A-Rod's go ahead single and Ellsbury getting absolutley schooled by Mariano on 3 pitches to end the game.


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## Minsc

I would say the highlight was Jason Giambi randomly falling down trying to double off Ortiz at first, but otherwise, I agree, that was an ugly game.

Unfortunately I had to miss Wang/Beckett and will have to miss the battle of the geezers, Clemens/Schilling 

It appears Boston has failed to hurt the Yankees wildcard chances, and New York failed to make any real ground against the Sox.

I know I'm not surprised!


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## mikenas102

Anybody up there in red sox nation getting a little tense or uncomfortable for the last 2 weeks of the season? Manny better hurry up and get back. 
Anyway, Peavy looks more and more like a lock for Cy Young with every outing. Beckett is going to get the AL. A-Rod gets the AL MVP since the Tigers look almost done. NL MVP may be the only open race. NL ROY is Braun. Where did he come from? Could the AL ROY be stolen by Carmona? Dice-K, what happened?


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## mikenas102

I love this Barry Bonds ball thing. Please vote to brand it with an asterisk.
VOTE TO BRAND IT


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## goalcreas

I voted to brand it.

The guy that bought the record tying 755th ball is also holding a vote.

Vote here, I couldn't help but to vote to smash it.

Vote 755, www.endthedebate.com


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## erijnal

wow Yankees are looking to steal the East. Detroit is done, Seattle is done, Atlanta was never in it, Phillies are somehow still in the East because the Mets can't get anything done against them, Dodgers are done, and Colorado is making a run for the wild card


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## mikenas102

I love that website for the 755 ball. I voted to smash it. The marketing idea selling those little squares for $200 each is genius.

There's nothing I would love more than to see the Yanks take the East. Still probably not going to happen with 10 games left but you never know. We gotta face some tough pitchers this weekend. Halladay, Marcum, Burnett. But then we get Tampa and the Orioles again. If we take 3 of 4 from Toronto this weekend we will win the division.


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## mikenas102

The votes are in and totaled. The ball is going to be branded with an asterisk and sent to the H.O.F.
ESPN


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## will5

Cubs all the way baby. :boxing: eace:


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## mikenas102

I would love to see the Cubs get somewhere for a change. Hopefully they can get to the World Series......and then get SMASHED by the YANKS!!!!
:heh: :rofl:


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## will5

As a cubs fan it kills me to agree with you on this.


> I would love to see the Cubs get somewhere for a change.


But i am not sure about the smashing part. If they do lose i want it to be a long close game, so they know they gave it there best which they will.:-D


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## mikenas102

Honestly, I've been pulling for the Dodgers and the Cubs all along to have a strong showing. I love baseball history. Seeing the Dodgers or Cubs play the Yankees would be cool.


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## will5

Cubs made it to the playoffs. :boxing: :-D


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## erijnal

WOW the mets actually blew it. Saaaad

The Rockies got a wild-card tie-break game too! How crazy is that.... Rockies are definitely the Cinderella story if they can make the postseason, I hope they make it


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## Crocodylus

I hope the Rockies beat the Padres tomorrow, maybe that way we can get a big bopper for next year!! 
Our batting stinks!

on a bright note, Dodgers suck more then us for the 3rd year in a row


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## erijnal

Rockies Win In A Wild One!!!!!


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## mikenas102

Rockies were definitely the better team. The Padres had no business in the playoffs with that sorry excuse for a lineup. I think the Phillies will take the Rockies though. It will be a fun series. Two of hottest teams in baseball recently. One of them won't be hot much longer.


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## will5

mikenas102 said:


> Rockies were definitely the better team. The Padres had no business in the playoffs with that sorry excuse for a lineup. I think the Phillies will take the Rockies though. It will be a fun series. Two of hottest teams in baseball recently. One of them won't be hot much longer.


Was that a crack at the CUBS? [-X :croc:


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## mikenas102

will5 said:


> Was that a crack at the CUBS? [-X :croc:


Not sure what you mean.

Here's my predictions.
Yankees over Indians
Angels over Red Sox
Phillies over Rockies
Cubs over D-Backs
then....
Yankees over Angels (finally)
Cubs over Phillies
and of course....
Yankess over Cubs in a laugher


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## will5

mikenas102 said:


> Not sure what you mean.
> 
> Here's my predictions.
> Yankees over Indians
> Angels over Red Sox
> Phillies over Rockies
> Cubs over D-Backs
> then....
> Yankees over Angels (finally)
> Cubs over Phillies
> and of course....
> Yankess over Cubs in a laugher


Hi sorry i read it wrong.


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## Minsc

Wow!
Dominate performance by Beckett, his best of the year. The free swinging Angels didn't help themselves at all...

My ridiculously homer predictions:
Red Sox in 4
Indians in 5

Red Sox over Cleveland in 6

Red Sox over NL team in 5

I don't watch NL games, so I can't comment on the other league.

By the way, Bill Simmons has a great article up on ESPN.com
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/071003&sportCat=mlb


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## edlut67

Hi guys,


Love sports. Baseball as well. In Europe though little Baseball's been broad casted. 
Probably the final homerun in the World Series, that will bring victory, will be shown.

Don't want to spoil this post, :mrgreen: but how about talking a bit about football, (soccer) as well ..  

Who will win the Champions League this year? 
Ac Milan(cup holder's), Barcelona, Real Madrid, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man United...??


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## mikenas102

Just as very little baseball is shown in Europe, very little soccer is shown here. There are very few marginal soccer fans in the US. In the US you are usually either a huge soccer fan or don't really care for it at all. The huge soccer fans are very few in numbers. For years soccer has tried and tried to gain popularity in the US but it just can't do it.


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## goalcreas

Angels ALWAYS lose game 1 of a series they win, however they have never won a game against Boston in the playoff's, and sadly, I see this all over again.
Damn, wish we would have drew NY!!
Boston Sweep


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## mikenas102

It's over here too. Time for a fresh start. Hit the road Torre! Rockies & Indians in the Series. Indians will take it. It's hockey season now.

Go DEVILS!


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## goalcreas

I agree with Hockey season, but I see Boston and Arizona with Boston Sweeping.

God DARN Scott Nedermayer (sp?)
I am starting to HATE him.
what 33, 34, can't make up his mind wheather he will HONOR his LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT
If I try to get out of my Dish Network LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT and don't show up with the buy out money, I get marks on my credit.

This is a team that if he and Teemu would come back had a VERY REAL shot at going Back to Back
and they JUST ARE NOT UP TO IT.

How many times does a Hockey player get a chance to play in the Cup series and also get to win it.
And win it TWICE.

Now I know Scotty has won every trophy there is to win at every level in Hockey (olympics, junior majors, world cup, stanly cup and what ever else there is), but HE can give that chance to HIS TEAM, the one that he signed a CONTRACT to play for for 4 years, not 2 and bow out.

Teemu, bow out on TOP.

I don't see it that way, I see it as Chicken S*^T to see if you can get another.

Well, Well enough of my RANT OF RAGE and it is waaaay off topic.

Mike, make another thread "HOCKEY 2007/2008) and we can jaw it out all year long.
Unfortunatly, My team might have a crap year, but then again, if these PUT THEIR BALLS BACK IN THEIR PANTS they might not.

What are you , Rangers, Islanders, Devils, Sabres? (EDIT / DUH, read Mikes post all the way to the end and see DEVILS and I was really hoping for a 2003 rematch last year, but ended up with the sens that really did not show up - funny that 2003 was one game away from being Ducks and Sens also)
I am guessing Rangers or Devils, if I have not nailed it yet, it must be Islanders but I really doubt you are a Sabres fan (but I have been more wrong before)
Rangers have a hell of a team this year, and may have stole some thunder from Buffalo. I don't see the Islanders being very much improved and may have lost more then they gained by getting Smyth for the playoff run and now not having anything to show for it (unless I missed something which is possible as I don't get too much coverage of the East out here)

And even though my Location says Phoenix, and even though I live 2 exits down the highway from Jobbing.com arena, and even though it is a pretty nice arena, right next to the University of Phoenix football stadium and even though the Great one is behind the bench every game, even though all this.

I HATE THE COYOTES

I am from Fountain Valley, CA, minutes from Anaheim, so Ducks Angles fan for LIFE!!!!


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## goalcreas

One last thing Mike, I have always rooted for the Devils in the East because I really don't like Detroit or Colorado and they just seem to be there more often then not. I rooted for Carolina for the 1st cup factor, same with TB, But I am a big Marty fan and Scott N. fan (well used to be, I am ready to write him off and ask for him to be banned from the HOF for this stunt) so I will most likely be pulling for your Devils all year also.


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## erijnal

Go Rockies!

Either way, the NL West showcased its pitching and muscle thus far. Hopefully whichever team gets into the World Series will keep it up


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## goalcreas

Minsc said:


> My ridiculously homer predictions:
> Red Sox in 4
> Indians in 5
> 
> Red Sox over Cleveland in 6
> 
> Red Sox over NL team in 5
> 
> I don't watch NL games, so I can't comment on the other league.
> http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/071003&sportCat=mlb


GO INDIANS
Unfortunatly, I see Red Sox in 4, 5, 6, 7 it doesn't matter, they WILL win.

GO D-BACKS (only because I live here and the Angels are done)
I am picking the D-backs but don't really care how many it takes, actually I wish they all took the max. I don't follow the NL all that much either so I can't really make an educated prediction, just saying what I want to happen

I think The AL team (Red Soxuke will beat the NL team with out much doubt.


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## mikenas102

Last night was one of the most laughable and entertaining games from a Yankee fans standpoint. First batter of the game, Pedroia, grounder to third. First baseman tags him out. WOOPS!!! What did the cameraman catch? Was that Pedroia blatantly trying to slap the ball out of the first baseman's mitt? Nah, the red sux wouldn't do that would they? I thought only crybabies like A-Rod would do that. Right Minsc? 
Just as good was Manny stylin', watching his HR and walking halfway to first with his team still down by 4 runs. What an idiot. Great way to teach the millions of kids watching you scumbag. Boston fans should be ashamed of the attitude this team has.


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## goalcreas

mikenas102 said:


> Just as good was Manny stylin', watching his HR and walking halfway to first with his team still down by 4 runs. What an idiot. Great way to teach the millions of kids watching you scumbag. Boston fans should be ashamed of the attitude this team has.


Agreed 150%


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## Minsc

Well, it seems that the Sox have continued the tradition of not only losing on my birthday, but making asses out of themselves doing it.
Mark it down on your calendars, Oct 16, Sox suck day

Luckily, I managed to be too busy to catch the game this year, so I didn't manage to ruin my day this time.

Anyone have a link to video or picures of the Pedroia incident? I would like to see it, can't really give my opinion till then...
Just a reminder, since A-Rod has been brought up, this is the play we are comparing.

















And here is the "gamesmanship" slide he made. Notice his position:evil: 









As for Manny, he is one of the hardest training players in the game, yet is constantly treated like a lazy bum and a jerk by the media and many of the fans. If he chooses to show his excitement when he hits a home run and not worry if other people approve, I can't say I blame him.



mikenas102 said:


> Boston fans should be ashamed of the attitude this team has.


Um, remember the 2003 ALCS when Don Zimmer attacked Pedro, not to mention Jeff Nelson and Karim Garcia beating up a groundskeeper?
Talk about living in glass houses...


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## goalcreas

So he is a hard working jerk, or he works hard at being a jerk.
Still hate to have to watch Manny.
That being said, I hate to have to watch Barry (I don't all that much as I don't watch too much NL)
and many of the others.

For the record, I can't really stand A-rod either. 
I am sooooooo glad  that he has not gotten a ring yet  and hope he never does.

Lest see, he left Seattle for that STUPID contract that Texas gave him ($2875 per hour, every hour awake or asleep for 10 years). And Seattle was the best team in baseball that year (until they were stopped by NY in the playoff's), and Texas took last in the AL West IIRC, and the same next last place the next year and then traded to NY and they have not reached a WS since.

Man, I hope he stays with NY so they don't for a while longer.

I wish he could split the season with NY and Boston so neither of then will. 

All right already, not trying to offend you guys or bag on you personally, it just it is what it is and it is stupid sometimes.


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## mikenas102

We'll just have to agree to disagree. There is no way to argue with anybody who tries to justify a player hot doggin any homerun when your team is still down by 4 runs in a big game. I don't care who it is that hit it. Dear God could you imagine the outrage if A-Rod did that?
As far as video of Pedroia slapping at the ball you'll have to find somebody that tivo'd the game. I figured most sux fans had seen the game but I'm sure 90% of them won't admit to what happened. After all, it's not like he's A-Rod.


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## mikenas102

Minsc said:


> And here is the "gamesmanship" slide he made. Notice his position:evil:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Looks pretty fair to me. At least he was still in the basepath and within reach of the base. Youkilis was called out for running on the infield grass between 2nd and 3rd and had the nerve to cry about it. Remember that?


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## Robert Hudson

> Just as good was Manny stylin', watching his HR and walking halfway to first with his team still down by 4 runs. What an idiot. Great way to teach the millions of kids watching you scumbag. Boston fans should be ashamed of the attitude this team has.


LOL..my god.. I guess as a Yankee fan you must be pretty desperate to find something to cheer about right now! Manny can dance jigs around the bases for all I care. He deserves to show whatever joy and pride he wants! What are you going to when Arod joins the Sox next year! Maybe we will take Jeeter too since he will be crying like a little baby when Torre gets fired! :boxing:


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## mikenas102

Like I said, it's impossible to even argue with anybody that would justify Manny hot doggin down by 4 runs. Do you want to see that on the little league field? 
I'm glad Torre is gone. Anybody that knows me will tell you I wanted Torre out before his last 3 yr contract. 
You sound typical Boston. Talk tons of trash on a player until you want him on your team. You're all still sore you couldn't land the A-Rod trade a few years back. Now you want him again. LOL! Same thing with Clemens after he left. Everybody said he was washed up. Boston fans everywhere trashing him. He goes to Toronto, wins a few Cy's and then they want him back. I guess it hurt too much to see him eventually end up with a CLASSY organization like the Yankees. I'm sure we'll have Ortiz too in a few years after he has a bad year and you front runner sux fans run him out of town. 
Let's face it. The Sux are a fad. Before '04 they couldn't half fill that 34,000 seat dump for a game. (Yes I've been there 3 times. It's a dump) They win 1 world series and all of a sudden there's "The Nation" who for the most part couldn't find Boston on a map. They might have mailed a letter there once. That "fan" base will fade again shortly. Then the only Sux fans that remain will be the ones who actually know what they are talking about.


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## Robert Hudson

And you sound like a typical Yankees fan who has sour grapes because the Yankees dynasty is a distant memory. Manny paused for like ten seconds and raised his hands! Big deal! What better time to rally the team than when you are behind! There are a lot more pressing issues in the game. Little league could use a little more team pride and fan support. Its gone from one extreme to the other. I was at my nephews little league game, and I cheered, whistled and clapped when he came up to bat. I was abmonished for doing that. I was told that is not allowed. Gimmie a break. Loosen up!


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## mikenas102

Robert Hudson said:


> I was at my nephews little league game, and I cheered, whistled and clapped when he came up to bat. I was abmonished for doing that. I was told that is not allowed. Gimmie a break. Loosen up!


Yes that is ridiculous. I would stand behind the person that said something to you and cheer louder. Maybe even bring an airhorn next time. The hot doggin however has no place. Do you want to see MLB turn into the NFL or NBA where half the players are just trying to make a Sportscenter highlight? I can't stand to see that stuff going on in the Little League World Series. Where's Nolan Ryan or Duke Snider when you need them. A little chin music would adjust the attitude. If MLB turns into the NBA all I'll have left is the NHL.


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## Robert Hudson

On common Mike. Putting all the trash talk aside, (I could go on forever til someone takes it personal!  ) seriously, I don't see it as any big deal at all. Its not like he mooned the Indians dug out. You are making it into much more than it is. Nobody cares about it. Its like people who get upset when football guys do a little dance after making a touch down. It makes the game interesting. The only people that should be upset are the Indian fans because Manny was rubbing his ex fan base's nose in it. It would be like whats his name doing it in Boston... who was that insignificant little traitor that went to the Yankees... gagmon, yamon... Damon

Boston won last night. They have a long road to go now. It woul be impossible for most teams, but the Sox have won three straight in the playoffs before! Now let me think, what team was it that they totally embarrassed... it was in 2004... what team was that Mike? <snicker>


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## mikenas102

Boston should beg A-Rod to stay in NY. If he hits the road maybe we'll bring back Aaron Boone! He did more damage to Boston in 1 game than A-Rod has done in the years he's been with NY. And that's even counting the HR off Papelbum to tie it in the 9th.
As far as Damon, we'll trade him to you for a box of balls and some bug spray. The balls don't need to be new either. Actually, you guys could use him back. Even with his body breaking down he's still better than Drew or Crisp.


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## Robert Hudson

LOL! We don't want Damon back now. You made him all nice and pretty looking, cut his hair all girly like Jeeter! He smells like a Yankee now, like 2 dollar perfume.


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## Minsc

Wooot! Red Sox forced game 7!

I think we'll keep Drew after this one...

Robert, are you from New England? The wife and I visited Portland last winter and it seemed to be full of NE expats.


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## erijnal

lol... Drew pretty much earned the bulk of his salary in this game alone. It's not hard to outpitch the other team when your smallest lead of the night was three.

Meanwhile, the Rockies are thinking about adding Aaron Cook back into their rotation hmmmm


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## Robert Hudson

My family has been in Boston for 200 years. I was the first one to leave. Drew was awesome in that game, and actually did well in the series as a whole. I think next year he will really show his stuff.

Look at our rookies! I can't spell these guys names... but Pedroia, and Ellsbury..wow! I love these guys. This is what I love about this team, super stars coming up from our own farm. Its great to buy the great players, the Yankees bought their championships for the last 25 years, but when its your own homegrown talent, it is so much more satisfying. This team reminds me of the 75 Red Sox with Fred Lynn. 

I don't really know much about the Rockies. They are on fire, and will make the Sox work real hard. Should be a good series.


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## mikenas102

Robert Hudson said:


> Its great to buy the great players, the Yankees bought their championships for the last 25 years, but when its your own homegrown talent, it is so much more satisfying.


Ugh.. Robert, you really need to start doing your homework. You're too smart to make a statement like that and be so wrong. The core of the Yankees roster in 1996 at the start of their run of success: Jeter, Posada, Bernie Williams, Pettitte, Rivera. ALL home grown. That team was so great because there was no 1 big superstar. It was a team effort. O'Neill was acquired in a trade. So who were the pivotal superstars on that team that the Yankees bought? Tino Martinez? Not exactly a bank breaker. Joe Girardi, Charlie Hayes? Hardly.

Now, let's go to 1998. Same core of home grown players. Brosius replaced Hayes at third. And knoblauch was on this team. Big 3 ptichers for the Yanks that year were Pettitte, Wells, and Cone. Wells and Cone were both 35 yrs old that season and were dismissed by the rest of the league as has-beens. Cone won 20 that year and Wells won 18.

So please tell me what I missed here. Where's is the 'bought' championship? If you need me to go on to 1999 and 2000 to further prove my point I can. You can't make blanket statements like you did and have nothing to back them up. I'm gonna catch you every time.


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## Robert Hudson

OK, I guess I will give you that!  I just always remember the Yankees being able to buy whatever players they want going back to the 70s. The Red Sox until recent years never had the money to buy big players.


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## Robert Hudson

I feel like dancing a jig! This is going to be easier than I thought! The Rockies look worse than the Indians!


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## houseofcards

Well I grew up a Met fan (used to walk to Shea), eventually became a Yankee fan after Strawberry, Torre and others ended up there, but I have to be honest I'm kinda getting sick of the whole process. I mean the Yankees and Mets both by high profile aging veterns to get the job done and who did their seasons go down in flames with the same high price aging veterns. I almost felt bad for Clemens as he walked off the mound in his final Yankee game. It was really sad, what was even more said was he was getting, what was it like $10,000 a pitch. As far as I'm concerned the Yankees got what they deserved along with A-Rod who basically cost Torre his job. Sorry A-Rod, but for that money you have to do it in October like Reggie. There's more to baseball than shoving any high profile player you can into your line-up, what happened to chemistry.


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## Robert Hudson

I thought it was completely ridiculous when the Yankees brought Clemmens out of retirement for what, half a season for an insane amount of money. And for what, a publicity stunt, a team morale booster? Did it accomplish anything? Did the premadona take the team any further than they would have done without him? I don't think so. Every time I see that stupid commercial with Clemmens talking to his wife on the phone asking her permission to play baseball again I laugh my butt off. I can imagine the actual conversation went like this, "they want to pay you how much? Hell yeah! Do it, do it, do it!"

The Red Sox lost their mind in paying 100 million dollars for "Dice", but at least he is a young guy and there is time for him to mature and grow into his role. 

This upsets me a lot more that Manny throwing up his hands after hitting a home run. What kind of message does this send to young aspiring athletes. Forget the game, forget team loyalty, just follow the money. Live like a rap star and wear five pounds of diamonds


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## Jessie

Hi, bummed Coloradoan here. 

I even had tickets for what would have been yesterday's game.


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## Questin

I am with you on that, bummed! The broncos are not doing all that well right now either, sucks =(

On to Hockey!


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