# 10 gallon El Natural / anaerobic substrate ?



## frroK (May 9, 2011)

Hello, wanted to share my ten gallon tank with you all at apc. I'm having some issues with it. Hope you can help. Here are the specs 
Titled: "Mezza Luna"
Tetra 10 gallon half moon glass tank
Zoo med 501 filter with knock off acrylic lily pipes
Archaea 27w pc fixture, 10,000k
Tetra Heater
Substrate: Miracle Grow Organic choice potting mix capped with Eco Complete
One piece manzanita driftwood and some black river stones
Flora
Jungle Val
Rotala Rotundofolia 
Bacopa Caroliniana 
Dwarf sag
Java fern "Philippine"
Crypt red
Crypt tropica"bronze"?
Java moss
Hornwort
amazon frogbit, salvinia and duckweed
Fauna
3 twin goldbar platies
1 orange glo danio
1 veiltail betta
2 ottos
1 male black bar Endler
3 female black bar Endler's 
1 Amano shrimp
(I know a bit overstocked, planning on a bigger tank really soon)

So now here is my issues. This tank has been running since early summer. And the plant growth has been rather slow and somewhat unhealthy. Particularly jungle Val and crypts(curled leaves, slow growth). I think the reason why some of my plants are not doing well is that I may have anaerobic pockets. I've been noticing that bubbles were being released every now and then. And alot gets released if I disturb the sub or touch the wood. I thought that my mt snails would be able to aerate it enough to not form pockets of sulfur. Well I think it happened. I poked at my substrate today and when the bubbled came up it smelled like rotten eggs! I also trimmed away my jungle vals and when I pulled up a small plant the roots were black. So the question is, can I overcome this problem without tearing down this tank? If I poke at it alot will it kill my fish? I think the eco-complete is a bad cap for dirt. it has too many mixed grain sizes...Diana walstad recommends grain size to be between 2-3mm but Eco is 1-6mm and the smaller grains settle below the larger ones possible compacting the dirt layer below. I thought that if I didn't go too deep I would be fine but thats not the case obviously...  at most the substrate is 2 maybe 2.5 inches deep. My water is soft here in NYC , so I've added baking soda , calcium chloride and magnesium in order to bump up my parameters for kh/ gh. At first I though my soft water was the issue. But it could not be. Since the hornwort and java moss are growing extremely well. I also dose KN03 and trace once a week. Again, thinking I had deficiencies. I really love this tank and it's not at all in really bad shape by any means. But I want to make sure all my plants don't eventually rot their roots and I have start over. Any advice on dealing with an anaerobic pockets of substrate? I've includes some pics below. Thanks for the help.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Your tank does look good given its age. If water conditions were bad, the shrimp would be the first to show symptoms as they are the most sensitive to this.

I suggest that you gently poke the substrate with a chopstick until the bubbles stop appearing, then immediately do a large water change. You might also try to siphon off some of the Ecocomplete layer. And stop dosing any fertilizers until the problem is resolved.

Since the floating plants are growing well, light and nutrients are not the issue. I suspect that the soil is releasing excess nutrients. You may need to do frequent water changes for a while until the soil "calms down" a little.


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## frroK (May 9, 2011)

Michael said:


> Your tank does look good given its age. If water conditions were bad, the shrimp would be the first to show symptoms as they are the most sensitive to this.
> 
> I suggest that you gently poke the substrate with a chopstick until the bubbles stop appearing, then immediately do a large water change. You might also try to siphon off some of the Ecocomplete layer. And stop dosing any fertilizers until the problem is resolved.
> 
> Since the floating plants are growing well, light and nutrients are not the issue. I suspect that the soil is releasing excess nutrients. You may need to do frequent water changes for a while until the soil "calms down" a little.


Thank you for the advice Michael. I forgot to add that I have some floating frogbit, salvinia and duckweed as well as the hornwort. Tomorrow, I will do a water change and try to siphon some of the eco complete. Obviously too much sulfur would be toxic to my fish so the water change makes sense. I have not done a water a change on this tank in a few weeks and that was relatively minor, maybe 10%. I am just nervous about the water change since I have soft water, I don't want to induce an algae bloom. I added ca and mg to raise my gh.
Here is a video to give you a better look at the tank...


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## pearldanny (Mar 11, 2011)

I had problems like this when i first started my NPT. The best thing i found was a good carpeting plant. I got some saggitaria subulata at the LFS and it has created a nice carpet across the whole tank with the roots everywhere it keeps the soil from getting nasty anaerobic pockets. any carpeting plant would work I have just found this particular plant to be very forgiving and fast growing. I hope all goes well for you


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## frroK (May 9, 2011)

pearldanny said:


> I had problems like this when i first started my NPT. The best thing i found was a good carpeting plant. I got some saggitaria subulata at the LFS and it has created a nice carpet across the whole tank with the roots everywhere it keeps the soil from getting nasty anaerobic pockets. any carpeting plant would work I have just found this particular plant to be very forgiving and fast growing. I hope all goes well for you


thanks! thats exactly the plant I have in this tank that I think will help with my problem. I am currently growing it out in a 3 gallon. as the new plantlets grow to a decent size I move them here. so far I only have three...


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## pearldanny (Mar 11, 2011)

yea for me it seemed to kinda of sit of a couple months while it got used to the tank and then it took off like no other. I really like your tank by the way


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## frroK (May 9, 2011)

pearldanny said:


> yea for me it seemed to kinda of sit of a couple months while it got used to the tank and then it took off like no other. I really like your tank by the way


Hey thanks. So I'm thinking of removing the stem plants. Bacopa and rotala in the right corner and just let the dwarf sag take over there. It's just not looking good and its throwing off the balance in my tank. Some good news. My Endler's are breeding. Pulled out one fry and found another this evening. Here are some more pics. You can seee the fry under the dwarf sag in the second pic. Hopefully he survives. Thanks for the advice.


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## pearldanny (Mar 11, 2011)

It looks really nice! I like the driftwood i wish i had room for some in my tank it looks like the base of a tree in the rainforest that just got flooded or something really cool


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## frroK (May 9, 2011)

Thanks pearldanny! I'm new to the hobby but I've been bitten with the bug and now am obsessed. I come from an artistic backround and I am intrigued by the aesthetics of planted tank... As well as the ecology.

Update:Things are finally looking up. I am seeing new growth on the jungle val starting to come through! finally this plant is starting to settle in. I am hoping it will spread its roots and will help distribute oxygen. dwarf sag has new growth as well, albeit slow. much slower than in my 3g. I let the hornwort grow in pretty thick, I am thinking of cutting that back big time. I know crypts like shade but combined with the frogbit and driftwood it may be too shaded? what do you guys think? Also, some advice on the bacopa and rotala(pic below) The bacopa is def growing taller but the lower part of the stems have lost their leaves. Should I let it grow to the top then prune it and re-plant, and chuck the bare stems? Or should I trim and leave the stems, will shoots come up off of the bare stem? and the rotala is finally starting to re-grow as the tip of the tallest stem is growth fresh new growth with longer leaves. Thinking about hacking this up as well. but may wait until that one stem grows longer as I want to re-plant that.


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## frroK (May 9, 2011)

Well I decided to do a trim. It needed to be done... Hoping things will start to balance itself out soon. Getting new growth on the vals. So i guess that's good. I'm considering using DIY Co2 for awhile to help give the plants a little nudge. Let me know what you think.


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## frroK (May 9, 2011)

Here is an update on my 10 gallon. Alot of the dirt had now settled on top of the Eco-complete. I don't think the anaerobic substrate is that much of a problem now cuz my plants have settled and are growing nicely. Although my Val's don't seem to be thriving, but I believe it's because I don't have adequate flow in this tank. My problem is now I have dirt covering most of the cap layer of my substrate and is quite unsightly. I am considering re-doing it and replacing the cap with blasting sand. I just set up a new tank with it and it looks awesome and is the right size grain for a dirt set up. I believe Eco complete is too light and once you disturb it , it releases alot of debris. I know that some people have had success with it as a dirt cap but I will never use it again. Here a photo to show you the dirt on top of cap by the crypts and a FTs. Thx for looking.


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## frroK (May 9, 2011)

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## frroK (May 9, 2011)

Hello Apc. I thought I would follow up on this thread so that hopefully it can help others. I decided against re doing the substrate in this tank and just started siphoning out the dirt that has settled in top of the Eco-complete. This has been a weekly endeavor as I do not want to shock my fish with big water changes. Anyway, after I get most of it out. I will just fill in spots with spare Eco complete that I had left over and call it a day. If I start to see deficiencies in my plants I will consider adding root tabs. This tank started out great but now is not really where I would like it. For one thing I don't think I have enough flow and they dirt just gets all over everything and makes the water cloudy and everything dirty. here is an updated shot thanks for looking.


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## frroK (May 9, 2011)

Here is the latest shot of this tank. It has really matured.


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## tdcthulu (Jun 17, 2012)

i've read that allelopathic chemicals prevent dwarf sag and vals from both thriving in the same tank.


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## mariannep (Mar 18, 2012)

That's a nice little jungle you have there!


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