# My SAE died I think due to CO2 Poisoning?



## chrisl (May 24, 2004)

I've got, well had, 2 SAE's for quite awhile now...they are about 4" big. Anyway, woke up yest. am to a dead SAE. His skin looked kinda pinkish/redish tint to it is the only thing I noticed wrong looking at him.

Could it be CO2 poisoning? I'm running my tank high on [email protected] 6.6 and kh of 11...which I don't know why is so high...as that puts my CO2ppm at 68! Wierd as I rarely check my KH as I have really soft water and have to add 1/4tsp per 5gal changed of water of Equilibrium. Last I checked was at my plant party in july and it was only 4. No idea why /how it got so high??

Anyway, as I just checked the KH, I noticed 2 of my cardinals now are also dead. What a bummer!!

I lowered my co2 to 6.7, but as I JUST checked the KH before this post, I"m going to do a water change right now and recheck my KH before I add any Equilibrium to see where I am. Just really strange the KH is SO high now.

So, I'm thinking the SAE died from CO2 poisoning as I think the conditions were setup for that, as well, if I'm not mistaken, pink skin is a symtom in humans of CO2 poisoning?

What a setback!

Chris


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

But Equilibrium doesn't effect KH as far as I know, just GH. I would recommend double checking the validity of the test kit too. Unless you have decorations in your tank that release carbonates in the water I don't see how your KH would vary so much from what you get out of the tap. Might be worth bringing some water to your local fish store to double check the reading.

Hope that helps
Giancarlo Podio


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## chrisl (May 24, 2004)

Thanks Giancarlo, and I thought it did...though not sure. I admittingly only superficially understand the GH/KH relationship and all. And I'll also admit I don't know much about the Equil. and what it exactly affects. I never tested the kh enough before and after water changes. I just followed what Jeff Kropp sugg. to me, based on a local water report I got and his local experience as well. And that was the Equilibrium to deal with the(2kh out of tap) soft water supply. At 1/4tsp per 5gal. changed ea. water changed. And I've been doing that since. I hate testing as you can prob. tell by now 

I just did a 60-70% water change and rechecked, now it's it's normal 5kh. So perhaps I need not add the Equil. at every water change, perhaps every other or something? Either way, I'll need to stay on top of this and retest for awhile to get a feel for the pattern of depletion.

Anyway, restarted the co2 with a 6.7 target=about 30ppm co2.

Man, it's always something isn't it? lol....Erik and I were JUST discussing this the other day hehehe

Chris


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

That's the fun! ;-)

Equilibrium may have been suggested due to low GH in your tap water, but KH is not effected by Equilibrium. I use baking soda for example to raise my KH and Equilibrium to raise GH. I think it's always a good idea to test your water and work out your own dosing regime. Once you know how much of something you need to maintain a desired level, you can stop testing and just do the occasional test here and there to check on things from time to time. If your tap water is giving you 4-5KH then you don't need to change it at all. Equilibrium will also add other things and I've heard of people using it regardless of having a good GH in their tanks so this is something you need to evaluate. I doubt it will make a lot of difference but then again I haven't seen your water report.

Hope that helps
Giancarlo Podio


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## Corigan (Mar 15, 2004)

I'm just chiming in to re-enforce what Giancarlo has stated. Equilibrium just effects the GH of the water. Equilibrium is basically Calcium, Potassium, Magnesium, and a tad bit of Iron. I use baking soda to bring up my KH. I also use Equilibrium to bring up my GH. Both my KH and GH are less than a degree out of tap.

Matt


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## chrisl (May 24, 2004)

Ah, that makes sense and something I forgot, that I also add bicarb. w/ each water change also at Jeff's suggestion. Wasn't sure what was for what  Well I learned something, Thanks guys!
Still though, not quite sure why I had such a large kh earlier? Well, like I said, I guess I'll have to monitor it and see if it's needed at each water change.

Chris


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

Well if you're adding bicarbonates without having ever tested just how much you really needed, I'd say you probably accumulated KH over several water changes. You really do need to be aware of what you're putting into your tank. I know many of us, myself included, have been doing it for some time and just add things to a tank without testing, we've tested it so many times that we know exactly how much to add and so forth. Test your GH and KH of your tap water and let us know the values, if both are over 3 then you really don't NEED to raise anything, specially bicarbonates. Equilibrium on the other hand you could still add in controlled doses, just test your GH and figure out how much you need to add at each water change to keep a steady level. Another useful trick is to place markers on a hidden corner of your tank to indicate when you've removed 5, 10, 15.... gallons, this helps me a lot as it allows me to be more constant in the amount of water changed each week and in calculating the quantities of everything I need to add to the new water. Just helps in maintaining consistency without having to re-test for things so much.

Hope that helps
Giancarlo Podio


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## aquaverde (Feb 9, 2004)

gpodio said:


> Another useful trick is to place markers on a hidden corner of your tank to indicate when you've removed 5, 10, 15.... gallons


That's something that I use but never saw anyone mention before. I measure the amount of water into the system first time I fill it, too, so I can know how much is really in there, total.

Mr. Podio, you are a very _practical_ aquarist with much great practical advice.


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## Corigan (Mar 15, 2004)

aquaverde said:


> Mr. Podio, you are a very _practical_ aquarist with much great practical advice.


That's for sure. What a great tip, thanks Giancarlo. I had always just eyeballed certain locations. I.E. when the top of a certain piece of driftwood comes out of the water, when a certain piece of equipment is at a certain level, etc. Would be much more practical to just have markers in the corner.

Matt


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## chrisl (May 24, 2004)

Thanks Giancarlo, great suggestions! My tap is consistently about 2KH from tap, so perhaps the 1/4tsp/5gals changed is too much. I just took it for granted that Jeff's suggested doses would be right on. I agree, and will for awhile keep testing. And I like your idea of marks too, I'll get a 5gal. bucket next w/c and use that to establish the marks.

Wanna hear an update as well? After getting kh down to 5, I thought I'd try to get 6.7 from my Milwaukee controller, but it only goes in .2 shifts, so it stayed at 6.6 thurs night. Which is 38ppm of CO2 which I know sev. people running this level just fine...but for me, I awoke fri am to 3 more dead fish 
So, THEN I recall reading about the Milwaukee and the .2 control...totally forgot about it. Anyway, upped the CO2 and am running 6.8 now which is 24ppms. No dead fish this am...so I guess Ill let it run at this level from now on. 

Interesting, but costly, learning experience!

Chris


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

That's often the way we learn some things. I think you should be good to go now, or at least if more fish die it shouldn't be because of CO2 poisoning and/or large fluctuations.

Hope everything is good now
Giancarlo Podio


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## chrisl (May 24, 2004)

Thanks Giancarlo. Yeah, no more dead fish since I upped the the ph to 6.8. 

I also just yest. got my auto dosers up and running yest. just in time for trip. Peristalic pumps and digital timers. Simple and very easy to setup.

Off to Austin Tx for long Labor Day Weekend  

Chris


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