# Help!



## thaerin (Dec 12, 2004)

All righty, I have some problems. 
My fish, especially my white clouds, gills are really really red. Some have been rubbing thier gills agaisnt the gravel on occasion, but almost all are rather lethargic than they were before. I'm not sure what's their normal resperiation rate either, but their gills are pumping furiously. LFS said septecmia is the problem. Is that right?
I've got Maracide and Furacyn, what to use? 
Also, should I add salt to the water as that's supposed to help the fish.
Problem with all these is my plants and the snails (ramshorn, MTS) and shrimp (ghost and red cherries). Will these be affected?


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## New 2 Fish (Dec 31, 2004)

You may want to post your water parameters so everyone can see what's going on there.....


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## thaerin (Dec 12, 2004)

pH 8.1
Ammonia and nitrite 0
Nitrate 40 (eek, time for a WC i guess but i just did one yesterday)
kh 13
gh 6.7


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Do you see anything that might resemble parasites, stringy things, on their gills? My first thought would also be Ammonia. 

I'm wondering also about your oxygen level...


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## thaerin (Dec 12, 2004)

No sign of any parasite or anything. I would hope o2 level is ok, using a Penguin 170 HOB and an aquaclear 20 powerhead for added circulation/aeration.

But...it almost looks shiny on the gills. But only on the gills, no where else on the fish. Lil hard to get a good look, they're lethargic except when i'm trying to check them out.


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## Phillyman (Dec 2, 2004)

Melafix and Pimafix can be used together in the tank. Neither should bother your plants. I would do a water change, a 7 day treatment of both together and then another water change. Seems like your ph is a little high. That high of a ph makes small amounts of ammonia lethal.Is your tap water that high or is there some thing in the tank driving it up? shells?


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## thaerin (Dec 12, 2004)

Tap water is that high, PA well water =( will the Melafix or Pimafix affect the snails or shrimp?

PS Nitrate is 20 ppm out of the tap


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## Phillyman (Dec 2, 2004)

Check these links
http://www.thatpetplace.com/Product...ions/T1/F62+1044+0273/EDP/20235/Itemdy00.aspx
Melafix 4oz (Aq. Pharm.)
http://www.thatpetplace.com/Product...ions/T1/F62+1044+0388/EDP/40480/Itemdy00.aspx
PimaFix, 4 oz. Bottle (Aq. Pharm.)
I only use these in a quarantine tank, but it says it is okay.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

I think your best bet would be to remove them and treat in a bare (or nearly bare) hospital tank with a sponge filter. It doesn't have to be big - 5 gallons or so.

That way you'd use less medicaton, you wouldn't have to worry about the other tank inhabitants, and they'd get into some fresh clean water, which is always a great help when fish are ailing.


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## Error (Apr 16, 2004)

1. Do a water change every day, twice a day if you can.

2. Treat with copper or formalin (but not both simultaneously).

3. If the condition doesn't improve, try a "wide-spectrum" anti-fungal and anti-bacterial antibiotic like Kanamycin.


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## louieknucks (Oct 12, 2004)

Just make sure you separate the fish from the rest if you treat with anything that contains copper. Copper and inverts don't mix.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

thaerin said:


> will the Melafix or Pimafix affect the snails or shrimp?


No, it will not.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Just an addition:
If you're not sure of the problem, it's best not to medicate with unnecessary things and stress them out more; or build up an immunity for the med if they really need it in the future.
I'm just adding that because I see a lot of over-medicating out there and it's not good for the fish in the long run. In many of those cases, an increase in water changes works wonders.  

As mentioned before, try to get those nitrates down to see if that helps, then proceed from there. 

Keep us posted.


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## thaerin (Dec 12, 2004)

Therein lies part of the problem Jan, my water.
First off is that out of tap, the nitrates are already at 20 ppm.
And as Phillyman pointed out, at my pH (8.1) even the tiniest bit of ammonia can be lethal. 
I have an Aquarium Pharm. Tap Water Filter, which will filter out just about anything from the water, giving me water with 6.4 pH, 0 kH or gH and 0 nitrates. 
I plan on cutting the water I use for water changes about 50% filtered water, 50% tap water. Assuming the kH and gH of the tap water is cut in half by this, the water will be 9.5 kH and 3.35 gH, with 10 ppm nitrates which the plants should be able to soak up. No idea what the pH will be in this mix yet.
Question is, how do I phase this new water in and slowly change the pH of the tank? Start at a higher tap water/filtered water ratio and work down to 50/50?
Also, the filtered water can be used as top off water during the week with no problem yes?
hmm...this might deserve a new thread by itself  Thanks for the help so far everyone


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Ack, that must be a bummer to have nitrates like that out of your tap. I missed that before.
Actually the 8.1 pH isn't _that_ high. Mine comes out of the tap at 8.2 or so and that's were it stays in the non-C02 tanks with no problems for the fish. Of course I don't have ammonia as a concern, but your tanks sounds like it's cycled enough that it shouldn't be a worry to you either.

I would say when you switch over to the filtered water, you could safely start with 30% or maybe more (of the amount you change) being the filtered water. I think the drop in nitrates is going to be better for your fish than worrying about the other parameters too much. It probably isn't going to be enough of a change in the other things to have an impact on them anyway.

And yes, it should be fine to use the filtered water for top offs.

Good luck.


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## thaerin (Dec 12, 2004)

When I transferred my frogs (which have been moved to a different tank now) to the tank from their 2 gallon, all the gravel came with to help seed the bacteria. That tank had been running for since August, and this one has been running since Oct-Nov, can't remember  I originally dosed with stress zyme, their bacteria formula. Currently using Seachem's Stability instead. 
I would hope the tank is able to deal with any ammonia after all this


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