# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Water Softener



## jww (Jul 13, 2003)

I am considering installing a Water Softener for my home. My tap water ranges around 7.5+ and would like to make it a more stable Nutral or lower. I understand the system I am considering uses salt to achive the lower ph, is this safe for plants and fish?


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## jww (Jul 13, 2003)

I am considering installing a Water Softener for my home. My tap water ranges around 7.5+ and would like to make it a more stable Nutral or lower. I understand the system I am considering uses salt to achive the lower ph, is this safe for plants and fish?


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

What are your KH and GH measurements? Most people tend to warn against using a water softener. Quite frankly I am not even keen on the idea of drinking softened water now that I have researched it.

As Tom Barr will most likely point out, if you can drink your water and your fish survive in it, then your plants will be just fine.

Also you would be better to bring your pH down by using CO2 injection. Not only is it better for plants but you are also adding a barbon source for them to utilize.

If you are really deadset on bringing down KH and GH then look into a RO or DI system. But don't bother with Equilibrium or whatnot. More than likely you can mix your RO water with straight tap water to achieve the GH/KH you want and save your money.

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15XH, 36W PC, XP-1, Onyx Sand, DIY CO2

Crypts ciliata and wendtii bronze and red, "sunset" hygro, green hygro, pennywort, wisteria and java fern and moss.


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## jww (Jul 13, 2003)

Great info from Jon Mulzer on the water softner. I have an RO unit installed it just waste so much water to get the pure I hate to use it for a 100 gal tank. The idea of using a CO2 injection unit sounds very promising.

While using a CO2 injector how stable is it, and what is the process it takes to lower the ph? I'm guessing one needs a storage tank to run this process to do water changes.


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

It is very stable. Especially if you go to the expense of using a pH controller. Do you know what the KH of your water is?

And no, you don't have to worry about water changes. It won't cause very much of a pH swing at all. And it quickly drops back down. What percentage of your water do you change and how often?

I have a KH of 8 and when I do a water change I usually only see about a .1-.2 pH swing and even then for only about a half hour or so. Nothing major. And definitely nothing to worry about.

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15XH, 36W PC, XP-1, Onyx Sand, DIY CO2

Crypts ciliata and wendtii bronze and red, "sunset" hygro, green hygro, pennywort, wisteria and java fern and moss.


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## jww (Jul 13, 2003)

I have never tested the KH. Keeping Discus I used to change 40% weekly. I'd like to Plant a 90 gal with fish but with swings of 1-2 points Discus are out of the question. I guess I could dose in the sump first, then exchange. When first set up with the co2 injector to lower the pH, how stable is the water, assuming it's kept fairly clean?


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

You missed the decimal points. It was .1-.2

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15XH, 36W PC, XP-1, Onyx Sand, DIY CO2

Crypts ciliata and wendtii bronze and red, "sunset" hygro, green hygro, pennywort, wisteria and java fern and moss.


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## jww (Jul 13, 2003)

Yes the fine print allways get me!

I really like the co2 idea, may just make it much easier than before.

Any good idea's on whole sellers?


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## McKee (Feb 7, 2003)

Most water softeners use potassium chloride or sodium chloride to alter water chemistry. You're correct in assuming this stuff will be in the water. Read up on what you want to grow and keep, and decide if that will be appropriate. Some fish and animals won't tolerate it, some will.

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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

Water softeners use an ion-exchange bed that replaces each Ca++ ion with 2 Na+ ions. The water now has "soft" sodium ions instead of "hard" calcium. BTW, the hard water really is hard and gritty, since Ca++ precipitates from the water when its heated. Its nasty in a shower, and is bad for clothes washing, and fills your hot water heater with boiler scale.

If your water GH runs greater than 12 grains/gallon, or about 12 dKH, then a water softener can be justified. I have had them in hard water areas. However, they bring a load of sodium with the water, and should not be used for drinking. Cooking is problematical, as some foods cook better in calcium, and some in sodium. Canning should use soft water.

How you plumb the house to accept soft water is a pretty serious consideration, especially if the water is very hard (I once had GH = 60!)

Like everything else, fish and plants tolerate the sodium and calcium differently, according to species. Also to consider is the amount of Na+ that will be present.

In general, I wouldn't recommend softened water for anything beyond your hot water heater. When you install it, plan for connection to that first, and leave the cold alone. You may find that is all you need. Beyond that, connect the cold to the washing machine only. Unless you take cold showers, you usually don't need the bathroom, or if the water is so hard it is ruining your bathroom fixtures.

Outside faucets should not be connected to the softener for obvious reasons.


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## Jack11 (Mar 30, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Not only is it better for plants but you are also adding a barbon source for them to utilize.


Wow! There's a drive thru liquor store in town that I've been using as a barbon source







. Maybe I'll see if they've got anything for my plants









Ah Hah! You're supposed to put the plants IN the water...


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

Ha, you have drive-thru liquor stores in TX? I thought those only existed in KY (no offense Vicki, lol). I guess I should be using the IE Spell that I downloaded more often huh? lol

I should add a disclaimer, take me by what I mean, not what I say.









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15XH, 36W PC, XP-1, Onyx Sand, DIY CO2

Crypts ciliata and wendtii bronze and red, "sunset" hygro, green hygro, pennywort, wisteria and java fern and moss.


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## jww (Jul 13, 2003)

I am stoked by the answers I get from this list, very knowledgeble, and with a little humor mixed in.....WOW!

Thankxxx


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Kentucky Rite-Aids are my favorite stores in the whole world. You can drive through and pick up booze, cigarettes AND drugs all at the same time.









JWW, my years in Arizona taught me everything I ever wanted to know about hard water. My mother is still there, and runs ALL her water (which is from a well) through the softener. It saves her pipes, but it's absolutely undrinkable. I don't even like to use it for cooking when I'm out there. I lived in town and had municipal water, and 60 GH was routine; I used my tap water mixed half and half with bottled water for my fish at that time. The water had a fair amount of sodium in it to begin with (there was a salt mine just five miles up the road), and a water softener would NOT have been a good solution. At that time I had no interest in Africans, who would have been perfectly adapted to the water I had; I kept tetras and various South and Central American cichlids, and kribs and livebearers primarily. I bred angelfish and raised spawns in that water with no trouble, and the best I could EVER do was a ph of about 7.8 and GH of 16. Bottom line-I agree with GSMollin, if your water is really hard use a softener to save your pipes and appliances, but stick with the tap water for your fish; some mix of tap and R/O water will work for pretty much anything.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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