# How do you dose Iron(Fe)?



## nfrank

This is an informal survey of Iron Trace Element product usage to collect information related to the Group Buy of the "super iron." It will also permit folks to report what Fe product(s) they use and under what conditions. Ideally, the participants should be both folks who are are happy with their fertilization regime as well as those that are fighting algae. (of course, incorrect trace element dosing is not the only cause of algae). I suggest that the questions include the following, subject to suggestions and further input from others:

*1. What product(s) do you use?*

CSM+B (7% Fe-EDTA)
Miller Microplex (4% Fe-EDTA)
Iron-10 (10% Fe-DTPA)
"Super-iron," Sprint Fe 138 (6% Fe-EDDHA)
Flourish
Flourish Fe
Tropica Plant Nutrition 
Soil substrate
Other
*2. What is the size of the aquarium(s)? *(volume and dimensions, e.g. 120g (440L) & 24" (60cm) deep). You may pick one representative tank for the survey.

*3. What are the amounts dosed and how often?* (e.g. 1/4 tsp CSM weekly + 1/8 t "Iron-10" daily, or continuously with an automated doser)

*4. If powder, is it administered dry or in stock solution?*

*5. Target Fe concentration* (e.g. 0.1-0.2 ppm (mg/L), or dont know/dont care)

*6. Is phosphate dosed and when, compared to iron?* (e.g. at same time, on alternate days, etc. Also does your added tap water have phosphate)

*7. Your general water hardness, GH *(e.g. soft, moderate, hard, or specify deg GH)
To get an idea if it plays a role in solution stability

*8. Time of day the Fe is administered* (e.g. morning, evening, varies)

*9. Level of lighting* (e.g. 216w T5 HO for 12hrs, to get an idea of rate of fert usage)

*10. Is UV sterilizer used? * to learn if this affects the chelator stability.

*11. How often and how much is water changed relative to Fe dosing?*

I am unfamiliar with APC surveys, so if there is a better way to execute this, let me know. Also, if this is reinventing the wheel, please provide the link(s) to existing surveys.  All i could find is this one 2005 Fe Survey with 3 replies, and another 2004 survey attempt with no replies. I hope this one is more successful.


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## nfrank

*How i currently dose iron -- to get the survey started.*

1. What product(s) do I use?
•Tropica Plant Nutrition - for the past 15 years.
•Soil substrate - ADA Aquasoil, for the past 14 months​
2. What is the size of the aquarium(s)? (volume and dimensions, e.g. 120g (440L) & 24" (60cm) deep). 
120g, 24" deep. There is a sump which adds another 30gal; total water volume is ~570L. I also have other aquaria, but not reported here.​
3. What are the amounts dosed and how often? (e.g. 1/4 tsp CSM weekly + 1/8 t "Iron-10" daily, or continuously with an automated doser)
50 ml TPN administered 1 time per week, after 50 percent water change 
(Note: i initially forgot to include water change and tap water chemistry in the survey. It is now Q11. My tap water is low in iron (i believe , 0.01 ppm, based on what the water department says leaves the Raleigh water treatment plant. I dont actually know what is picked up from iron pipes during distribution and what actually comes out of the tap)​
4. If powder, is it administered dry or in stock solution?
N/A​
5. Target Fe concentration (e.g. 0.1-0.2 ppm (mg/L), or dont know/dont care)
Earlier today, i said "DK, I dont test... but maybe i should occassionally"

I just did the calculation (and got the same result with the fertilator): I am adding 0.06ppm with each dose. Tank concentration can be higher.​
6. Is phosphates dosed and when compared to iron? (e.g. at same time, on alternate days, etc)
yes, at the same time. My tap water also has phosphate. I will have to check the amount.​7. Your general water hardness, GH (e.g. soft, moderate, hard, or specify deg GH)
very soft. I also have low KH in case this is relevant​
8. Time of day the Fe is administered (e.g. morning, evening, varies)
generally in the morning​
9. Level of lighting (e.g. 216w T5 HO for 12hrs, to get an idea of rate of fert usage)
108w T5 HO for 12hrs, plus 216w for 5hrs​
10. Is UV sterilizer used? 
yes​
11. How often and how much is water changed relative to Fe dosing.
50% weekly, and immediately before my weekly iron dosing​


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## bsmith

Lets see here...

1. CSM+b 1/8 tsp TThSa, Flourish Fe TThSa 5ml and 2.5ml on off day's. 

2.37g , 23"-24" deep.

3. (in #1)

4. CSM+b is dosed dry infront of my Koralia.

5. Never measured but I am under the school of though that an excess is what I want. 

6. Phosphate is dosed Dry on TThSat.

7. Hard water dissolved solids is around 350ppm. 

8. Morning, roughly 8 hours before lights on.

9. 2x24w for 7hours (total photoperiod) and 4x24w for 4.5 hours. 

10. Not usually, only for GW.

11. 50% weekly on Sundays the Fe dosing resumes Monday.


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## wet

SWEET. 

Let me mention I am fighting nuisance algae. I do not believe it to be related to Fe dosing.

1. What product(s) do you use?
Currently

CSM+B (7% Fe-EDTA)
Iron-10 (10% Fe-DTPA)

Have used
Tropica Master Grow/Nutrition
Miller Microplex (4% Fe-EDTA)
Flourish

2. What is the size of the aquarium(s)? (volume and dimensions, e.g. 120g (440L) & 24" (60cm) deep). You may pick one representative tank for the survey.

40 gallon breeder, half-filled as a paludarium.

3. What are the amounts dosed and how often? (e.g. 1/4 tsp CSM weekly + 1/8 t "Iron-10" daily, or continuously with an automated doser)

I dose to target, eyeballed after doing it for a long time with my scale: Enough Plantex CSM+B to add 0.1 ppm Fe every other day, DTPA Fe to .2ppm every day.

(I'll go back to measuring doses to target tomorrow, I guess, to have a baseline before trying new Fe.)

4. If powder, is it administered dry or in stock solution?

Dry.

5. Target Fe concentration (e.g. 0.1-0.2 ppm (mg/L), or dont know/dont care)

0.2-0.3ppm Fe.

6. Is phosphate dosed and when, compared to iron? (e.g. at same time, on alternate days, etc. Also does your added tap water have phosphate)

Yes, at least 30 minutes (usually a few hours/night before) before adding fertilizers with Iron. Tap does have Phosphate. 

7. Your general water hardness, GH (e.g. soft, moderate, hard, or specify deg GH)
To get an idea if it plays a role in solution stability

>8dGH, ~6dKH out of tap when I last measured. I do not have kits any more.

8. Time of day the Fe is administered (e.g. morning, evening, varies)

Usually morning on workdays. On the weekend I like to dose right in the middle of the photoperiod, when my tank looks super pimp. I can induce pearling with Fe addition.

9. Level of lighting (e.g. 216w T5 HO for 12hrs, to get an idea of rate of fert usage)

4 hours 96w CF, 3-4 hours 192w CF, natural sunlight and a south facing window.

10. Is UV sterilizer used? to learn if this affects the chelator stability.

Nope.

11. How often and how much is water changed relative to Fe dosing?

>50% Weekly. Fe continues to be dosed that day.


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## nfrank

Hmmm... only 3 responses, including me. Three seems to be magic number for revealing info about Fe. 

More seriously, what are easy to use Fe tests in the range of 0.1ppm, in terms of discriminating the color? 

I calculated my dose Fe concentration with TPN to be 0.06. Not as low as i thought. Before i start to add more Fe either as TPN or Iron-10, CSM or whatever, it would be good to actually test to see how it changes within a few days,.... but using a test that has adequate resolution from 0.05 to 0.2.


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## barbarossa4122

CSM+B (7% Fe-EDTA)- in the past
Flourish- in the past
Flourish Fe- 4ml and 2ml every day for the last 2 weeks
Tropica Plant Nutrition-10ml and 5ml 3x/wk for the last 2 wks.

I hope to get some "Super-iron," Sprint Fe 138 (6% Fe-EDDHA) from "wet"

One 55g(47g water column) and one 30g(25g water column) tanks. 70% wc every Friday.
2 9W UVs
2.5 wpg T5HO 9 to 10hrs/day.
Water-soft
Dosing- dry(macros) and liquid(micros) early in the morning about 1hr before lights come on.
2 Koralias

Everything going good so far.


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## bosmahe1

1. CSM+B and Flourish Fe

2. 46 gallons, 21 inches deep approx.

3. 1 Smidgeon (.03125 teaspoon) CSM+B x 3 days, 5 ml (1 capful) Flourish Fe the other 3 days ++

4. CSM+B added dry, Flourish Fe stock solution

5. CSM+B .06, Flourish Fe .33,

6. Phosphate 1 pinch (.0625 teaspoon) on water change day only, no iron added on water change day 

7. Total Hardness 100 150 ppm

8. morning

9. 78 watts over 46 gallon bowfront for 10 hours and additional 78 watts for 4 hour burst

10. no UV

11. 50 % water change or more per week



Henry


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## trcybrwn

Hi everyone, I am new to the planted aquarium world (4 months, max) so I am learning as I go (thanks mostly to the people on here). I've mostly lurked in the shadows absorbing info without posting and I have bought a few plants off the "for sale" forum. There are some fert. products (as you can see below) that I plan to change and some that I intend to keep. I am not dosing any iron other than what is included in the Flourish tabs and the Flourish solution (prob. very little). Hopefully my non-existent dosing of Iron will still be helpful to everyone to see how that changes once I start dosing the Super Iron. All of my plants are very healthy and sending out new shoots like crazy, but I'd like to see more color from all of them, especially the limnophila aromatica. I finally have a handle on the BBA, since I've gotten the pressurized CO2 and have been EI dosing. I do have GSA and plenty of it.


1. Flourish (plan to change to CSM+B when I run out)
Flourish tabs
No supplemental iron
Eco-Complete substrate mixed with play sand
Pressurized CO2 
Flourish Excel
EI dosing

2. 70 gallon corner tank. 24" tall 48" wide. (lightly-moderately stocked with fauna)

3. Flourish 7 ml 3 times per week
KNO3 3/4 tsp 3 times per week
KH2PO4 1/8 tsp 3 times per week 
Excel 10 ml every other day

4. Stock solution - i mix the dry with tank water right before dosing

5. Don't know and that is my own ignorance

6. I do dose the KH2PO4 on alternate days of the flourish (my only minute source of iron) I'm sure we have phosphate around here with all the farms around, but I've never tested.

7. HARD, but I don't know what GH

8. Looking to all of you helpful people to help me determine when is best to dose the Fe (and the quantity, as well)

9. 8 hours of 192w (2.74 wpg)

10. No

11. 50% once a week

If you all see anything that is blatently wrong that I am doing, I would appreciate some help...I know that this isn't really a thread for that, but I'd still appreciate it. Thanks!!! 

Tracey


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## Philosophos

*1. What product(s) do you use?*

[*]CSM+B (7% Fe-EDTA) 
[*]Iron-10 (10% Fe-DTPA) - I up the iron in CSM+B with this
[*]Flourish - Suplement every now and then, especially for RO
[*]Other - Whatever comes in with tap and substrate

*2. What is the size of the aquarium(s)? * 28 gal bowfront; 24x~16x18in

*3. What are the amounts dosed and how often?* Dosed to .75ppm through EI (3x a week), .35 csm+b, .4ppm Fe

*4. If powder, is it administered dry or in stock solution?* solution

*5. Target Fe concentration* (e.g. 0.1-0.2 ppm (mg/L), or dont know/dont care) .75-1.5ppm

*6. Is phosphate dosed and when, compared to iron?* Alternate days, no phosphates in tap. I've mixed enough stock to know better than to add both at the same time.

*7. Your general water hardness, GH *(e.g. soft, moderate, hard, or specify deg GH)
To get an idea if it plays a role in solution stability

*8. Time of day the Fe is administered* (e.g. morning, evening, varies) Morning to early afternoon.

*9. Level of lighting* 65w CF

*10. Is UV sterilizer used? * Nope

*11. How often and how much is water changed relative to Fe dosing?* 50% a week, sometimes 30% twice a week, sometimes 50% twice a week; it depends on what I'm doing with the tank.


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## freshyleif

I have been following the EI method from the sticky here but with some modifications at times in effort to battle algae and to get my red plants to get more red. I am still not happy with the color of some of my plants but progress is being made. With that here are my answers.

1.CSM+B and Iron Chelate
2. 75g. 48x21x18in
3. 1/8 tsp. CSM+B and Iron Chelate nightly
4. I keep all fertz. powdered and mix doses in a container before daily/nightly dosing 
5.don't know. Starting to think I should care more
6.Phosphate dosed in the morning before the light come on
7.water hardness is moderate have not checked it in a while I have just added Ca. and Mg. to my fertz. list
8.I dose CSM+B and Iron at night 
9.240w CF and 108w T5 
10. Yes I have a 24w UV sterilizer
11. I change 50% or more weekly


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## Andy Ritter

*1. What product(s) do you use?* CSM+B (7% Fe-EDTA)

*2. What is the size of the aquarium? *volume and dimensions, 75g; 48" long x 18" wide x 21" deep

*3. What are the amounts dosed and how often?* continuously with an automated doser at .1 ml per hour

*4. If powder, is it administered dry or in stock solution?* stock solution of 80 grams CSM+B in 2 liters of deionized water

*5. Target Fe concentration* Good question. Back in the nineties it seems that the rule-of-thumb was .1 ppm, so that is what I thought that I should be aiming for. However, it appears that others target considerably higher than that (Philosophos :exclaim, which makes me wonder if I should be aiming higher. Yesterday it was .15 ppm. For the last month it has been around .2 ppm, but I've been tweaking my ferts to see how they react with one another, so I suspect something I did caused the iron to go a little lower (or not, it might just be that the testing isn't that accurate :noidea

*6. Is phosphate dosed and when, compared to iron?* At same time, but drips in at the opposite end of the tank. Added tap water has .2 ppm phosphate.

*7. Your general water hardness, GH * I'm currently playing around with these values (specifically trying to reduce the Mg), but as of yesterday it was 132 ppm (7.4 degrees), made up from 80 ppm Ca hardness and 52 ppm Mg hardness.

*8. Time of day the Fe is administered* 24 hours a day, 7 days a week

*9. Level of lighting* 220w T12 VHO, ramps up with a dimmer for one hour in morning, then 11 hours full intensity, then 1 hour ramp back down with dimmer

*10. Is UV sterilizer used? * No

*11. How often and how much is water changed relative to Fe dosing?* Generally change from 30-50% water once a month

Also, to answer the question about Fe testing, I really like my LaMotte Iron test kit (Model P-62, Code 7787). It comes with a comparator that makes it very easy to test from .05 to 1.0 ppm. It has sample colors at .05, .1, .2, .3, .4, .6, .8, and 1.0 ppm. I've used Sera and Seachem iron tests also, and this one is by far the best (of course it cost a lot more, but you get what you pay for). If you need to be able to test up to 2.0 ppm, they also sell one that tests up to 10.0 ppm (Code 3318 ), but it isn't as precise (.5, 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 6.0, 8.0, 10.0 ppm).

Hope this info helps,

Andy


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## bosmahe1

Andy Ritter said:


> *1. What product(s) do you use?* CSM+B (7% Fe-EDTA)
> 
> *2. What is the size of the aquarium? *volume and dimensions, 75g; 48" long x 18" wide x 21" deep
> 
> *3. What are the amounts dosed and how often?* continuously with an automated doser at .1 ml per hour
> 
> *4. If powder, is it administered dry or in stock solution?* stock solution of 80 grams CSM+B in 2 liters of deionized water
> 
> *5. Target Fe concentration* Good question. Back in the nineties it seems that the rule-of-thumb was .1 ppm, so that is what I thought that I should be aiming for. However, it appears that others target considerably higher than that (Philosophos :exclaim, which makes me wonder if I should be aiming higher. Yesterday it was .15 ppm. For the last month it has been around .2 ppm, but I've been tweaking my ferts to see how they react with one another, so I suspect something I did caused the iron to go a little lower (or not, it might just be that the testing isn't that accurate :noidea
> 
> *6. Is phosphate dosed and when, compared to iron?* At same time, but drips in at the opposite end of the tank. Added tap water has .2 ppm phosphate.
> 
> *7. Your general water hardness, GH * I'm currently playing around with these values (specifically trying to reduce the Mg), but as of yesterday it was 132 ppm (7.4 degrees), made up from 80 ppm Ca hardness and 52 ppm Mg hardness.
> 
> *8. Time of day the Fe is administered* 24 hours a day, 7 days a week
> 
> *9. Level of lighting* 220w T12 VHO, ramps up with a dimmer for one hour in morning, then 11 hours full intensity, then 1 hour ramp back down with dimmer
> 
> *10. Is UV sterilizer used? * No
> 
> *11. How often and how much is water changed relative to Fe dosing?* Generally change from 30-50% water once a month
> 
> Also, to answer the question about Fe testing, I really like my LaMotte Iron test kit (Model P-62, Code 7787). It comes with a comparator that makes it very easy to test from .05 to 1.0 ppm. It has sample colors at .05, .1, .2, .3, .4, .6, .8, and 1.0 ppm. I've used Sera and Seachem iron tests also, and this one is by far the best (of course it cost a lot more, but you get what you pay for). If you need to be able to test up to 2.0 ppm, they also sell one that tests up to 10.0 ppm (Code 3318 ), but it isn't as precise (.5, 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 6.0, 8.0, 10.0 ppm).
> 
> Hope this info helps,
> 
> Andy


Andy,

Curious, why are you trying to reduce magnesium? What do you use to automate the light dimming? I would love to create that effect without spending a fortune of course.


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## Andy Ritter

bosmahe1 said:


> Andy,
> 
> Curious, why are you trying to reduce magnesium? What do you use to automate the light dimming? I would love to create that effect without spending a fortune of course.


Hey Henry,

To answer your first question, I've had issues with some of my plants not doing well ever since I switched to PPS pro. I have been slowly researching, testing, and modifying my recipes in order to try and come up with a mix that gives me the best results. During my research, I discovered that it seems that most people agree that the Ca to Mg ratio should be somewhere around 3:1 to 4:1. Once I got a test kit that would allow me to check what mine was, I discovered that my ratio was 1.2:1. I also read about how Mg levels being too high in comparison to some of the other elements could cause problems (although I am still working on finding something scientific that is more specific to our situation...I researched for a couple of hours last night to no avail). Therefore I am backing off on the Epsom salt to see what happens. You can read more about my journey here if you like.

As far as the dimming goes, I'm not sure if you are going to like my answer. I have an old school lighting system that I bought in 1997. I use an IceCap 660 VHO ballast (you can check it out here and here) with a Digital Oceans IceCast dimmer (you can see it here, but note that this is an old web page and that this unit is no longer available). This dimmer is great and I am really glad that I have it. I feel that having the lights come on and off slowly more closely resembles what the fish would have in nature. I started out with a Niche Engineering Solar 500 dimmer, but didn't like how it performed (ramp up and down wasn't smooth). While researching for this answer, I noticed that it appears that they must be out of business also, but it looks to me like someone else (or maybe they just changed their name) took over for them. There is now a Solar 750 dimmer (see it here and here), but I haven't any idea how well it performs.

Hope this helps, and to Neil, sorry for getting off topic!

:focus:

Andy


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## bosmahe1

Thanks for the info, Andy.


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