# CO2:reactors or diffusers?



## Darthaardvark

What do you like to use? Inline Reactors, diffusers, other, or a combination of the above?

I'm guessing the reactors would be more efficient,

What do you think?


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## nokturnalkid

I've done reactors and diffusors so far. I'm currently on the needlewheel bandwagon. Reactors- very efficient but kills the flow. Diffusors- get misting but uses a lot of co2 and breaks by just looking at them too hard. Needlewheel- misting but uses more electricity. Everything has its pro's and cons.


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## cbwmn

I inject CO2 directly into the intake of my XP2 on my 46 BF.
I used DIY CO2 on that tank for many years but recently switched 
to pressurized. 
On smaller tanks, I inject into HOB’s (less successfully).
I tried using the cheap foreign diffusers and had too many problems...
Charles


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## rich815

It's all good.


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## bosmahe1

Charles,

How is injecting into the XP2 working for you? I also happen to have a 46 gallon BF and XP2. I am currently using a PVC reactor on the output of the XP2. It works very well, basically zero maintenance but I wouldn't mind reducing the restriction of flow. I used to use glass diffusers but got tired of the weekly cleaning or exchange. I didn't care for the 7UP look of the tank either.


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## The old man

I like the looks of an inline glass diffuser like the cal aqua, but probably a reactor is more efficient.


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## WhiteDevil

I had injected it into my HOB or HOT filter with very minimal success. I am now using a diffuser that just arrived today from Singapore so lets see how this foreign thing works.

I will go to pressurized once I have my canister filter.


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## Philosophos

Diffusers have distribution problems and disks to clean. Reactors are overpriced for what you get, and don't perform any better in terms of actual diffusion. I just switched to a little needle wheel today... distribution is amazing, I don't think I'll be looking back.

-Philosophos


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## orlando

Small to medium tanks I use glass diffusers/in-line glass diffuser.

Large Tanks(80+G) Needle wheel pumps/fractionating impellers.

-O


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## bosmahe1

Yeah, the only way an inline reactor is cost effective is if you make it yourself. It cost me about $12.00 if I remember correctly. With an XP2, the flow seems sufficient enough. It would be fun to experiment with a needlewheel. I'll have to give it a try. How do you clean an inline diffuser?


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## kimcadmus

I use Niko's tiny super efficient reactor on three tanks (75g, 48g, and 20g)the only thing needed is the $7 Hagen Elite mini pump. It does an incredible job. I typically place mine by the canister intake for additional absorption but it is not necessary.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...s/44053-tiny-super-efficient-co2-reactor.html


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## cbwmn

bosmahe1 said:


> Charles,
> 
> How is injecting into the XP2 working for you? I also happen to have a 46 gallon BF and XP2. I am currently using a PVC reactor on the output of the XP2. It works very well, basically zero maintenance but I wouldn't mind reducing the restriction of flow. I used to use glass diffusers but got tired of the weekly cleaning or exchange. I didn't care for the 7UP look of the tank either.


Bos

I am really satisfied injecting CO2 into the intake of the XP2.
On other boards, I heard of two possible problems with this method.
1.	The CO2 can cause the O-rings and rubber seals to deteriorate in time.
I bought extra o-rings and seals from PlanetRena.com, but have not experienced any deterioration yet.
2. The CO2 can cause a gas build up in the canister and cause problems.
I have not experienced any gas build up at all. I cannot hear any sound coming from the canister at all.

I do have a reactor but it is so bulky that I don't want any more equipment behind the tank.

Good luck
Charles


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## bosmahe1

Charles,

Thanks for the info. Since I already have the spare parts also, I might give it a try. How long have you been running your CO2 this way?

Thanks

Henry


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## Sollo

kimcadmus said:


> I use Niko's tiny super efficient reactor on three tanks (75g, 48g, and 20g)the only thing needed is the $7 Hagen Elite mini pump. It does an incredible job. I typically place mine by the canister intake for additional absorption but it is not necessary.
> 
> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...s/44053-tiny-super-efficient-co2-reactor.html


I have seen Niko's set up and it is quite cool - on our planted tank we had already spent $$$ and use a CO2 Reactor 1000 by AquaMedic in line on one of the Rena XP-3 which works well.


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## cbwmn

bosmahe1 said:


> Charles,
> 
> Thanks for the info. Since I already have the spare parts also, I might give it a try. How long have you been running your CO2 this way?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Henry


Henry
I have been injecting CO2 into my filters for about 2 years now.
On my 46 g, I was using 2 - 1 gallon bottles of DIY and starting a
new bottle every week. 
I finally bit and bought the Milwaukee regulator/pH controller 2 weeks ago.
The XP2 on my 46 didn't skip a beat. I just had some issues adjusting the controller.
Now it's a steady pH of 6.7.
The guy I bought the system from also sent me a DIY reactor.
It's made out of 2" PVC pipe and about 15" long.
I'm so happy with the CO2 into the intake that I'm not even going to try the reactor.
Charles


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## bosmahe1

Charles,

Thanks very much for that information. The simplicity of that setup is very appealing. I just never tried it because of the posts stating that carbonic acid would prematurely damage the seals and "O" rings. My diy reactor works great but sometimes getting the XP2 reprimed with it inline, makes it more difficult. The idea of not adding additional equipment in the tank is also appealing. Even if I would have to replace the seals every year, it would be worth it.


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## Sollo

bosmahe1 said:


> Charles,
> 
> ... but sometimes getting the XP2 reprimed with it inline, makes it more difficult.


We have an extended hose extension (through the 1000 diffuser) that caused the restart after a cleaning of the Rena and found that id we started the Rena (plugged it back in) when the water level was about 75% full in the Rena, the vacuum from the tank pushing the water into the Rena gave it the kick it needed to get going - and we have great pressure once it is running. It blows bubbles until full to normal capacity and then quiets down and runs like normal.


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## Darthaardvark

How would one go about setting a needlewheel up? directly into the tank, or would in a sump or something?


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## bosmahe1

Sollo,

What I have to do since the reactor is full of water and holds air pressure in the empty XP2, which will hold back water filling the XP2 completely. I lift up on the grey handle that attaches hoses to the XP2 and I can hear air escape, then I push the handle down again and water starts to run in. I might have to lift and push down the handle several times until the XP2 is about 75 % full and then it will flow normally. 

Prior to using the reactor, this wasn't necessary since there wasn't this column of water holding the air pressure in.

Oh well, It still beats cleaning a clogged diffuser regularly.


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## Sollo

bosmahe1 said:


> Sollo,
> 
> What I have to do since the reactor is full of water and holds air pressure in the empty XP2, which will hold back water filling the XP2 completely. I lift up on the grey handle that attaches hoses to the XP2 and I can hear air escape, then I push the handle down again and water starts to run in. I might have to lift and push down the handle several times until the XP2 is about 75 % full and then it will flow normally.
> 
> Prior to using the reactor, this wasn't necessary since there wasn't this column of water holding the air pressure in.
> 
> Oh well, It still beats cleaning a clogged diffuser regularly.


Do you do this while it is running? Maybe our XP has more pressure from the 150 tank 'cause it allways blows the water through the diffuser and bubbles into the tank - we just learned turning it on before full (while the "free flow" was still moving water) it helped to get it going rather than starting from "dead" (stagnet/non-moving) water as is has to puch about 6' more tubing to get back into the tank. 
Side note: We never considered running the diffuser before the Rena - we figured the C02 would dissolve and be wasted.


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## bosmahe1

Sollo said:


> Do you do this while it is running? Maybe our XP has more pressure from the 150 tank 'cause it allways blows the water through the diffuser and bubbles into the tank - we just learned turning it on before full (while the "free flow" was still moving water) it helped to get it going rather than starting from "dead" (stagnet/non-moving) water as is has to puch about 6' more tubing to get back into the tank.
> Side note: We never considered running the diffuser before the Rena - we figured the C02 would dissolve and be wasted.


I will unplug the rena while lifting and lowering the quick release handle because it doesn't sound good running the impeller when its dry. When it's 75 % full of water, it has enough to get started. I probably have released enough air pressure by then.


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## bosmahe1

cbwmn said:


> Henry
> I have been injecting CO2 into my filters for about 2 years now.
> On my 46 g, I was using 2 - 1 gallon bottles of DIY and starting a
> new bottle every week.
> I finally bit and bought the Milwaukee regulator/pH controller 2 weeks ago.
> The XP2 on my 46 didn't skip a beat. I just had some issues adjusting the controller.
> Now it's a steady pH of 6.7.
> The guy I bought the system from also sent me a DIY reactor.
> It's made out of 2" PVC pipe and about 15" long.
> I'm so happy with the CO2 into the intake that I'm not even going to try the reactor.
> Charles


I'm going try this as soon as I get some plumbing parts in the mail. I have an idea on inserting the CO2 line into the intake hose, inside the cabinet. If it works, I'll post it because it would be a simple and clean install. Cheap to!


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## Darthaardvark

anyone ever try this to increase the effectiveness of a diffuser?

put a powerhead above it so the intake suck the bubbles and blow them across the outflow?

its worked wonders for me, I've gone down from 5-6 bps to about 1-2

the only downside I see is aesthetic


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## Philosophos

I do the exact same with a small submersible pump/powerhead. I go one further by taking out the impeller, cutting the blades horizontally, and bending them in opposite directions. The bubbles come out much finer.

-Philosophos


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## Darthaardvark

Philosophos said:


> I do the exact same with a small submersible pump/powerhead. I go one further by taking out the impeller, cutting the blades horizontally, and bending them in opposite directions. The bubbles come out much finer.
> 
> -Philosophos


thats a good idea, does it affect the power of the flow?


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## Philosophos

It probably does in some way. I got the submersible pump explicitly for CO2 diffusion, after already having about 10gph/gal filtration.

Here's the article that got me going on it:
http://www.barrreport.com/co2-aquatic-plant-fertilization/5809-needle-wheel-diy-modifications.html

This also means no more cleaning your diffuser discs.

-Philosophos


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## Darthaardvark

man, Tom IS the man, I'd say he ranks up there with Amano
(hope I just didn't commit heresy by saying that)


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## Philosophos

You didn't. Not one bit.

Amano is an artist and a salesman. Tom is a scientist and a teacher. They aren't offering the same thing to planted aquaria.

One inspired me to start keeping planted tanks, the other is showing me how to do it.

-Philosophos


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