# Cool things I learned from D. Walstad



## Jarrod987 (Aug 18, 2015)

I learned some really cool things from reading Diana Walstad's book The Ecology of The Planted Aquarium. Some of the ones that surprised me were:

1. Ammonia is toxic to plants above 3 ppm. I always just thought it was plant food.

2. Calcium and DOC can both Bind Heavy Metals but Blue light can release it again. This is why using Saltwater bulbs with more blue in them can sometimes cause algae outbreaks in freshwater tanks. They release all the bound Iron.

3. Marine plants grow way faster then freshwater plants. If CO2 was the issue they would go slower or the same because CO2 diffuses through water slower then air. They grow faster because they can switch to getting carbon from alkalinity instead of CO2. Sea water is way higher in alkalinity. Many hard freshwater species can do this trick too.

4. Contrary to popular opinion, 0.1 ppm Phosphate is more then enough for algae and plants to grow. Algae grows very slow at 0.03 ppm and Algae cannot grow at 0.02 ppm.


----------



## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

1. some plants can handle higher levels of ammonia, but if you are doing a fishless cycle, or starting a tank with soil that releases ammonia it is better to aim for about 1 ppm max. Some plants do not like more than that. 

2. UV sterilizer is even better at breaking the bonds of chelating materials. But the materials have to be suspended in the water to go through the UV sterilizer. 

3. Roughly half the aquarium plants we commonly grow can utilize carbonates as a source of carbon. This takes more energy than using CO2, so the plant will only switch over to using carbonates if there is no CO2 in the tank. Part of the Walstad concept is to supply the tank with CO2 from decomposing matter in the substrate. 

4. Does not quite make sense. Maybe a problem with your numbers?


----------



## Jarrod987 (Aug 18, 2015)

Is what she said in her book. I think it was in one of the letters. If I come across it again I will give a page number.


----------



## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

Diana K said:


> 1. some plants can handle higher levels of ammonia, but if you are doing a fishless cycle, or starting a tank with soil that releases ammonia it is better to aim for about 1 ppm max. Some plants do not like more than that.
> 
> 2. UV sterilizer is even better at breaking the bonds of chelating materials. But the materials have to be suspended in the water to go through the UV sterilizer.
> 
> ...


Oh, i didn't know UV broke those bonds. I've only ever had 1 tank (was a Soil tank with DIY co2) with a UV filter and it was pretty nice. I couldn't tell much of a difference between having a UV or not, but I remember that tank gave me very little trouble.....

I always use a little ammonia reducing media for the very first week, in both soil and Amazonia tanks. Unless the plants are thriving transplants from another of my tanks.

Hmmm does mulm count as decomposing substrate matter? probably not, cause it's (mulm) too superficial, right?

I have only 1 tank at home now. I'm kind of thinking of adding a small betta NPT.......


----------



## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Mulm counts.


----------



## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

Diana K said:


> Mulm counts.


Thanks!


----------



## Jarrod987 (Aug 18, 2015)

Diana K said:


> 1. some plants can handle higher levels of ammonia, but if you are doing a fishless cycle, or starting a tank with soil that releases ammonia it is better to aim for about 1 ppm max. Some plants do not like more than that.
> 
> 2. UV sterilizer is even better at breaking the bonds of chelating materials. But the materials have to be suspended in the water to go through the UV sterilizer.
> 
> ...


I finaly found D. W. 's reference in The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium III Edition. Page 13 in the Q and A. ).1 ppm Phosphate is enough for plants.

The 0.03 number I got from somewhere but I don't remember if it was her book or not. Will post again if I find it. I will say from personal experience when PO4 gets in that neighborhood the green Algae gives up the ghost for me. Plants seem fine. Most likely getting there P from the soil.

Is it true that NH4 and PO4 bind to the soil but NO3 doesn't? I know it is in the book somewhere


----------



## Jarrod987 (Aug 18, 2015)

OK I found the rest. Page 160 of TEOTPA. Under 5. Phosphate removal she says that in Natural water P is between 0.003 and 0.02. She says Algae has a problem at this low level. She also says it's very hard to accomplish this in an aquarium. However I do it with GFO to right around the 0.03 to 0.03 level. I know this is not her method. She also says that plants prefer P from the soil (Which I have) and that Algae can only get it from the water column. 

Right now My GFO was expended and I did not replace it this month. Phosphate crept up to over 0.1 ppm. Green Algae both hair and thread getting a hold now. Also Black Beard is starting. Iron was undetectable on my Seachem Multitest. Nitrate and Ammonia always test 0 ppm for me.

It's amazing how many times I read this book and still find new things I did not catch or remember from before.


----------



## Karackle (Apr 14, 2009)

Thanks for putting that list together, I didn't know those things either! Very interesting to know, especially the part about being careful with fish ammonia levels even when doing a fishless cycle.


----------



## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

You know another good way of doing a fishless cycle if your soil does not release enough ammonia?

Terrestrial plant food (foliar fertilizer). 

Just find out what's the ratio of ammonia to N in your particular product and dose to keep ammonia at ~1.5ppm in your fishless cycling tank. I've done it before. Works perfect and it's cheap.


----------



## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Ammonia from a bottle is cheaper. 
Dollar tree ammonia (yea, it is not very strong) cycled a 45 gallon tank for a buck.


----------



## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

Diana K said:


> Ammonia from a bottle is cheaper.
> Dollar tree ammonia (yea, it is not very strong) cycled a 45 gallon tank for a buck.


Yeah hahaha but it's got no plant food 
Oh and I always have terrestrial ferts at home.


----------



## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Not using it for plant food. Just to feed bacteria. 
There are ferts in the substrate. 

Ammonia is plant food. Good source of nitrogen. 
It is also bacteria food.


----------



## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

Diana K said:


> Not using it for plant food. Just to feed bacteria.
> There are ferts in the substrate.
> 
> Ammonia is plant food. Good source of nitrogen.
> It is also bacteria food.


Think about a big tank with a new unadapted soil substrate and plants "just beginning" to grow their roots and so on..... If it's a 10gal or so, soil decomposition provides a lot of relative ammonia and ferts; but on bigger tanks with lots of different plants, the plants are still not able to grab everything from the soil. You start a cycle with some small amount of ferts and it'll boost your initial plant growth and feed bacteria until the soil/roots/filter gets going.

But i all you have are very low light and just a lot of anubias/crypts/ferns...... then it doesn't matter.

To be honest... full Al Natural, none of it matters. You don't even need the ammonia. Tank will be fine right away most of the time.


----------



## Maryland Guppy (Mar 5, 2015)

*Allelopathy* is not a myth it is real, Chapter III.

I am growing some stems, same variety, from same pot, 2 different locations in the tank.
Extreme difference in their growth rate based on what they are near.

Chapter 3 is a good read.


----------



## Patriot100% (Nov 12, 2011)

Maryland Guppy said:


> *Allelopathy* is not a myth it is real, Chapter III.
> 
> I am growing some stems, same variety, from same pot, 2 different locations in the tank.
> Extreme difference in their growth rate based on what they are near.
> ...


Very much not a myth. Some people still refuse to believe it happens. Some plants hate competition from others next to them. Oak trees often kill of others. Even in death their wood can be toxic to other plants.


----------



## Guck (Nov 27, 2014)

I have a black walnut in my backyard. Reading about this tree out of curiosity, I saw several sites refering to the the toxicity of the root system of Juglandaceae trees which the black walnut belongs to.

This is is one of them http://www.na.fs.fed.us/pubs/silvics_manual/volume_2/juglans/*****.htm and it cites two studies:

MacDaniels, L. H., and David L. Pinnow. 1976. Walnut toxicity, an unsolved problem. Northern Nut Growers Association Annual Report 67(1976):114-122.

Rietveld, W. J. 1979. Ecological implications of allelopathy in forestry. In Regenerating oaks in upland hardwood forests, Proceedings, 1979 J. S. Wright Forestry Conference. p. 91-111. Purdue University, West Layfette, IN.

I haven't read the references, but it's somewhat convincing.

According to wikipedia, Juglone, the substance produced by the familiy of tree has been known for it's effects for at least two millenia... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juglone


----------



## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Allelopathy on land is known, and accepted. The plants produce several chemicals that affect the plants that try to grow too close. 

There has been some question about whether it works in the water or not.


----------



## Jarrod987 (Aug 18, 2015)

Out of 18 plants I only had Green hair/thread on one single plant. A fair amount of it. It seems to indicate the other plants are able to fight it off. Upon increasing nitrates from ) ppm to 5 ppm it vanished within days. Obviously Nitrate is not toxic to Algae. The plant health is what zapped it. Seems like very strong circumstantial evidence of to me.


----------

