# [Wet Thumb Forum]-New AH Supply on the way.



## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

Just ordered a 36w Bright Kit for my 15H. I went with the 6700K bulbs. Since I have the today off because of all the recent rain I may run to Lowe's in a moment and get what I need to make my canopy (and perhaps a stand also, depends on motivation, hehe).

My next order (possibly next week) will be an XP-1, an Ebo-Jager 50w heater, Fluorite, and some fluorish root tabs I believe.

Since I am switching from an Eclipse 1 to the XP-1 if I leave my RFUGF in place for a couple of weeks I should not have to worry about an ammonia/nitrite spike would I?

Then, once everything is up and going well and all is fairly re-stabilized I will be ready to place an order with Robert.









Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

Just ordered a 36w Bright Kit for my 15H. I went with the 6700K bulbs. Since I have the today off because of all the recent rain I may run to Lowe's in a moment and get what I need to make my canopy (and perhaps a stand also, depends on motivation, hehe).

My next order (possibly next week) will be an XP-1, an Ebo-Jager 50w heater, Fluorite, and some fluorish root tabs I believe.

Since I am switching from an Eclipse 1 to the XP-1 if I leave my RFUGF in place for a couple of weeks I should not have to worry about an ammonia/nitrite spike would I?

Then, once everything is up and going well and all is fairly re-stabilized I will be ready to place an order with Robert.









Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.


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## Steve Hampton (Feb 13, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Since I am switching from an Eclipse 1 to the XP-1 if I leave my RFUGF in place for a couple of weeks I should not have to worry about an ammonia/nitrite spike would I?


Hi Jon,

Have you used an RFUGF in a planted tank before? If so, what were your observations/opinions. If not, I'd really appreciate an update on how you rate it's performance. Particularly since your going to use Flourish Tabs with the RFUGF.


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

Well, I am not planning on using the fluorish tabs with the RFUGF. I would think that would just be green water waiting to happen with the concentrations of nutrients. I don't know much about them but I would think they would just dissolve very quickly. Like dumping a whole bottle of Fluorish liquid in your tank. I am planning on removing it a while after I add the XP-1.

As for the RFUGF in my tank it is working great for the setup I have now. I really have no complaints. Everyone worries about roots becoming tangled in the plates but I have never had a single problem. The roots of my banana plant and some others do grow through the plates. But they come right out with no damage that I have observed.

As a bonus I have cut a hole in the side of the tube that is a little smaller than my airline and I feed my DIY CO2 into it. Since the water is flowing down and the CO2 naturally wants to float up I get 100% dissolution. After I start a new bottle I get an occasional burp of gas from under the gravel but not often. An almost perfect reactor.

I also think with the water circulation around the root systems it makes up for the cheap aquarium gravel I am using. I have never had any trouble growing anything. If you read one of my latest posts in The Green Room it tells about my C. Lutea and C. Ciliata both split their rhizomes (it is ehizomes isn't it?). They have only been in the tank for a month maybe and have grown to over twice their original size. And my amazon sword (E. Bleheri? I am slowly learning the scientific names, hehe) grew like a weed. Unbelievably fast growth. I am thinking that the nutrient rich water flowing around the root systems helped with this.

I have actually had REALLY good luck with this setup (trust me, it was dumb luck







). I almost hate to change it but I want to add more light, upgrade to a canister filter and try the Fluorite/Fluorish tab combo to see how it works. I wouldn't think you would get all of the benefits of the fracted clay makeup of the Fluorite with that fast of a flow over the substrate.

I would recommend the Eclipse and RFUGF combo to anyone starting out in the planted tank hobby though. It worked for me. It seems superfluous to have two types of filtration in a tank but since I am using the RFUGF for the CO2 reactor it actually works out extremely well. And here is my theory why. When I start a new bottle it bubbles like mad and then tapers off (I haven't toyed with my mixes too much). So you would think that I would have major pH swings. I don't. I think that the biowheel in the Eclipse is outgassing the excess and keeping it at a constant level. I can check my pH at any time and it is ALWAYS exactly 7.0. With 8 degrees of kH that works out to an almost ideal CO2 concentration level. So as long as I don't let my mix go too long without replacing it I never see a single pH swing.

I probably told you more than you wanted to know, but I am the over0analytical type.









If you should have any more questions feel free to ask.

Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.


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## Steve Hampton (Feb 13, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> I probably told you more than you wanted to know, but I am the over0analytical type.


Absolutely not! Thank you very much for your detailed reply. It's great to have people relate experiences that are "outside" the norm. Message Boards/Forums are much more valuable when the opinions and experiences of the participants are varied and detailed. Your response is highly valued. Thanks again.

Cheers,
Steve


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

You are more than welcome. If you should happen to have any other questions feel free to ask.

Wasn't there a person on the older board that was a fan of RFUGF also? Did they make the switch to the new message board?

Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

I have a question for the XP guys. What are the external dimensions of the XP filters? I assume they all have the same footprint? I am hoping that the XP=1 is less than 10" square because that is the depth of my new stand......

That would really bite if it wouldn't fit in there. Guess I should have asked before we built it huh?

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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

They do all have the same footprint. If no one answers this question by the time I get home tonight I will measure mine and let you know.

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## imported_aquaverde (May 5, 2003)

I'll save Rex the trouble. My XP1 is about 8-1/2" long on the side with the clips (the side corresponding to your depth, I would think) and 9-1/2" on the side with the disconnect. This is measured at the top, the widest part. In order to keep from kinking the hoses you'll need about 12 to 12-1/2" of height. That's only important if you have a shelf over the container, as I do.

I think you squeaked by









James

armchair aquarist and former algae farmer


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

not to totally change the subject of this post but i also have a question for you xp filter users. ive been considering getting one of these bad boys and was wondering what features it has? ive checked out the manufacturers site and tried looking for descriptions but can never find much on it.


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

Thanks very much guys. I looked for a long time on the web for their website. I kept getting linked to their old site. Bah. But as always my friends here at AB pulled through for me.







 And yes, I squeaked by. A 1/2" is less than a squeak though I believe. hehe

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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

ptahkeem,

What do you want to know?

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## jpmtotoro (Feb 13, 2003)

features... it's featureless! that's the beauty of these... they are fairly straight forward. the only 2 things i would say are nice are... a spraybar for putting water back in (i like it better than a single strong jet) and it also has a quick release handle which makes cleaning it out pretty easy. the handle disengages the hoses from the canister and also closes a valve so the hoses keep the water. then you clean the filter, plug it back in, and your siphon isn't broken and the filter keeps working. those are the only 2 "features" i can think of. the innards are pretty versatile... there are a ton of different filter media you can stick in the baskets... and they are easy to clean... but the XP filters aren't "feature" laden... that's what the nice eheims are for. the XPs are more... basic with just a few nice ammenities and build fairly well (at least mine has been fine, i'll be buying another one soon)

JP


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

I received my new bulb today. Everything is put together and working wonderfully. I do however wish that I had designed the canopy a little differently. Oh well, that will be design #2 I suppose. But the exciting thing I wanted to tell everyone about.....I HAVE PEARLING!!! Kinda anyways, I think it is what you would consider pearling. Almost every leaf in the tank looks like it has a slow air leak, hehe.







Little streams of bubbles popping up everywhere. And I must say that PC lighting beats NO hands down. My tank is MUCH brighter than when I had 30w of NO over it. I mean....WOW. I am way more than pleased with my purchase. Thanks for the advice everyone.









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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

One thing for everyone to consider if they do what I did.... If you remove a filter that agitates the water, and you then have NO turbulence on the water surface at all, and you are injecting CO2, then your CO2 concentrations will SKYROCKET!!! I came home this evening to fish gasping at the surface. Quick pH test said 6.4. Rechecked KH, 8 degrees. That works out to 96 ppm CO2!!







Luckily I caught it in time. I should have given it more consideration, but everything was going smoothly when I left. I guess I was right about the Eclipse giving me enough turbulence to keep my pH at exactly 7.0.....

Perhaps some thought need to go into regulating surface turbulence instead of bubble counts to control CO2? lol

Everything is great now though. Things are coming back down to normal. We will see what tomorrow brings though.

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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

I agree Jon, the biggest factor in determining your bubble rate and if you need to turn your CO2 off at night or leave it on 24/7 is surface agitation/gas exchange. Usually gas exchange in a tank is the larger cause of CO2 loss, but not for tanks with very low surface agitation.

Giancarlo Podio


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

Well, I just placed the order. I ordered the XP-1, Matrix bio-media, fluorish tabs, fluorish potassium and some other odds and ends. Should be here in a couple of days. Now I am a member of the XP converts I suppose.









I decided on the Onyx Sand. Hope it doesn't buffer my KH too much. What is the best way to rinse it? Am I just going to have to deal with mad amounts of cloudiness the first few days or does it rinse out pretty well?

----------------------------

15XH, 36W PC, RFUGF, DIY CO2

Crypts lutea, cilita and wendtii "bronze, "sunset" hygro, pennywort, wisteria and a banana plant









Soon to add XP-1 and ditch the RFUGF for Fluorite or Onyx Sand


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Rinse it very well. Otherwise your tank will not clear for days. Best way to rinse it is place about 3-5 pounds in a bucket and just start running water into it. Every once in a while just stir it a bit. Don't stir it too hard or it will take longer to rinse. You want to keep as many as the fines as you can.

You need to get some other source of potassium as the Seachem stuff is not going to last you very long if you dose to the 10-20 ppm levels.

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## imported_aquaverde (May 5, 2003)

I used a paint strainer bag to rinse Onyx sand by submerging it in a 5g bucket and stirring it with my hand for a couple of minutes. Then ran some water through the bag as Rex suggested. The fines, I kid you not, are gray mud. 
edit: had a photo, don't know how to post it


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

Rex, since you use Onyx in at least one of your aquariums that I know of, how much does it buffer your water? Didn't you mention before something about adding peat as a first layer with the Onyx on top of it to counteract the effects? If I do that and pull up a plant, will strands of peat come with it? Or am I just worrying too much about all of this?

Also, how much Flourish Potassium would I have to dose and how often to achieve these levels? Any idea?

Jonathan

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15XH, 36W PC, RFUGF, DIY CO2

Crypts lutea, cilita and wendtii "bronze, "sunset" hygro, pennywort, wisteria and a banana plant









Soon to add XP-1 and ditch the RFUGF for Fluorite or Onyx Sand

[This message was edited by Jon Mulzer on Tue June 17 2003 at 10:44 PM.]


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

I did put a bit of peat under the Onyx. But to tell the truth I have not really monitored that tank, it's a 5.5 gallon, as I do my other tanks. The tank is home to a very fat and spoiled Betta and he is doing fine. I can tell you that when you pull plants up, some plants anyway, you will get some peat up on the roots.

The dosage rate for Seachem's potassium is 1 ml will give you 1 ppm in 10 gallons. So to get to 10 ppm on your tank you are going to have to add 15 ml. To get to 20 ppm, 30 ml. And you will have to dose for each water change.

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## imported_aquaverde (May 5, 2003)

I've monitored mine, though it is newly set up (5 weeks). I think I've seen your stats and my parameters are almost dead on with yours, unless I'm confusing you with another poster.
Tap water:
7.0 pH
<1 dKH
2 dGH
Tank: 20xh (same footprint as your 15h, only deeper), 36w PC, XP1, DIY CO2
Substrate: 4" deep total, bottom 2" are 50/50 Flourite/gravel with one good handful of peat mixed in. This is capped by 2" of Onyx with 5# of black gravel and a few handfuls of Moon Sand.
Current parameters:
7.6 pH
5 dKH
6 dGH
With CO2:
pH ~6.8

The buffering may continue to rise. Sorry I have no more experience with the tank to give a more complete answer. Also, planting isn't touching the peat so far. It's too deep and the tank isn't grown in.
hth,

James

armchair aquarist and former algae farmer


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

I think you have me confused with someone else actually. My tap water is about 8 dKH, 23 dGH with a pH out of the tap of around 7.8+. I wasn't aware they made a 20 gallon that tall. Are you sure we are talking about the same size? The footprint of my tank is 10x20. Same as the common 10g.

How pleased are you with your XP-1? Does anyone think it would advantageous to add a little bit of peat in a media bag to one of my filter compartments? I realize that can be pretty risky since some peat is highly reactive and can crash your pH.

How much peat should I put at the bottom? I bought the Schultz brand, it says 100% canadian sphagnum peat. I assume this is the right stuff. It makes no mention of fertilizers so I assume it it the correct kind. Any other advice?

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15XH, 36W PC, RFUGF, DIY CO2

Crypts lutea, cilita and wendtii "bronze, "sunset" hygro, pennywort, wisteria and a banana plant









Soon to add XP-1 and ditch the RFUGF for Onyx Sand<----ordered.


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## imported_aquaverde (May 5, 2003)

Yikes, I was seriously confused about your water







With those parameters, I doubt you'll notice any difference with Onyx.

Your tank I assume is a 15 High,20x10x18". A regular 10g is 20x10x12". Mine is a 20 extra high, 20x10x24". Each extra 5g gets you another 6" of depth.

The XP1 is doing a fine job, it's easy, non-messy and reasonably quiet. Pushes plenty of water for my application. You're gonna have yourself a typhoon in that 15g









What are you using the peat for? I have it to provide a small amount of organic material that enhances the substrate's ability for cation exchange, slightly acidify the substrate. Really just one good handful. Not looking to change the water, which is already very soft and neutral. I dropped a whole point off my pH after 2 hours of DIY CO2, had to increase turbulence until the bubble count dropped a few days later, so I was more concerned with giving my tank some buffer. Thus the Onyx. Oh, and I used the real fine reddish brown peat, not the lumpy, greenish stuff. It has to be fine.

armchair aquarist and former algae farmer


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

Strange.....my aquarium is 10x20x~15. I calculated the measurements out and it came to approximately 14.95 gallons liquid capacity.....or so I thought. Perhaps there was an error in my math? I checked All-Glass's website and you are correct on the 15H. Hmmmm, I noticed a 15H at Petsmart the other day and thought it was taller than my aquarium......







. Oh well. They weren't asking very much for it, I may go pick it up to get myself a little more capacity. We will see.

As for why I am using the peat. It is for many of the same reasons you are using yours. Plus I have heard of people putting it under Onyx to help negate the increase in KH buffering.

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15XH, 36W PC, RFUGF, DIY CO2

Crypts lutea, cilita and wendtii "bronze, "sunset" hygro, pennywort, wisteria and a banana plant










Soon to add XP-1 and ditch the RFUGF for Onyx Sand<----ordered.


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## imported_aquaverde (May 5, 2003)

Yep, tank sizes can be pretty tricky. Of course, your measurements are not for any standard size I've heard of, so if it's really 15" tall, I don't know what you have. It can't physically hold 15g at that outside measurement. As far as calculated measurements go, I don't pay a lot of attention to them for any precision. A typical 10g leader (20x10x12) is 2400 c.i., which works out to 10.39g mathematically. You have the volume of the glass to consider, those are not inside measurements. I like to figure my working volume by filling the tank initially with a measured amount of water. And my 10g with nothing but a heater in it can only handle about 9-1/4g. That's nothing but water and glass and a heater. With several inches of of substrate, the number goes down fast. I got only 15g in my 20 on the initial fillup. Got another gallon in the system once the XP1 was added. The glass gets thicker the bigger the tank, etc. Calculated volume of my 20 is 4800 c.i. (20.78g). So much for calculated volume.

For your purposes, you would probably not want to put too much organic material in your substrate. I certainly wouldn't go over more than 2 handfuls myself. Maybe Van grow will drift by here. He's a peat advocate.

armchair aquarist and former algae farmer


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

I think I will go ahead and get the (actual) 15H then. It will give me another 3" of headroom before I trim also, hehe. Would also help a slight bit on cutting the light to my crypts on the substrate. I am starting to have a little bit of a hair algae problem. At least I think it is hair algae. And actually now that I look at it the extra height will help out the proportions of my canopy-tank-stand. Make sense? Sometimes (too often) I think too much....

And since I am replacing so much stuff I have a complete aquariums worth of spare parts and everything. I might have to see if any of my friends or their children would like a start in the fishkeeping hobby.







Always good to initiate whoever we can. And it will also give me someplace new to get rid of my clippings at if they are interested in the planted tank part of it.

Jonathan

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15XH, 36W PC, RFUGF, DIY CO2

Crypts lutea, cilita and wendtii "bronze, "sunset" hygro, pennywort, wisteria and a banana plant









Soon to add XP-1 and ditch the RFUGF for Onyx Sand<----ordered.


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## imported_aquaverde (May 5, 2003)

Well, yes, I would go as big as I could in tank size. More water is more betterer, easier to take care of, more to look at, etc.

James

armchair aquarist and former algae farmer


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by aquaverde:
> More water is more betterer, easier to take care of, more to look at, etc.


So is "betterer" a word totally reserved for New York?  Sorry, couldn't help it.

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15XH, 36W PC, RFUGF, DIY CO2

Crypts lutea, cilita and wendtii "bronze, "sunset" hygro, pennywort, wisteria and a banana plant









Soon to add XP-1 and ditch the RFUGF for Onyx Sand<----ordered.


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## imported_aquaverde (May 5, 2003)

BTW, don't forget to post your results after you get this together!

James

armchair aquarist and former algae farmer


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

For those that have ordered from Big Als, how long does it usually take to receive an order? I placed my order on tuesday and assumed I would have it at the very latest by friday or saturday. Still nothing. I am not a patient man when it comes to waiting for new toys.









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15XH, 36W PC, RFUGF, DIY CO2

Crypts lutea, cilita and wendtii "bronze, "sunset" hygro, pennywort, wisteria and a banana plant









Soon to add XP-1 and ditch the RFUGF for Onyx Sand<----ordered.


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Well, generally stuff from Big Al's takes about a week to get to me. They only ship UPS ground, so I don't order anything from them that I need right away! I'd guess you should have your stuff by tomorrow or thereabouts, Jon.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

Vicki was right, everything was waiting for me that day when I got home.







Sorry I haven't responded till now, work has been hectic and deadlines had to be met while the weather was good. After working 72 hours last week I didn't have time to be here on the board much. No time for water changes either, ugh.

Anyways, the XP-1 is in and working wonderfully. I set it up with the spraybar attachment. I put all of the extension tubes on that I could to put it almost on the substrate and then aimed the spraybar directly up. It creates a nice current directly above it and the rest of the tank is rather peaceful. So my zebra danios have a current to play in and the other fish can decide where they want to be. It isn't whisper quiet like everyone says, but with the door on my stand closed I can't hear it at all.

How long should I wait to take out the RFUGF and put in the Onyx Sand? I have heard two weeks several times, just wanted to double check and get others opinions.

----------------------------

15XH, 36W PC, XP-1, RFUGF, DIY CO2

Crypts ciliata and wendtii bronze and red, "sunset" hygro, green hygro, pennywort, wisteria and java fern and moss.

Soon to add Onyx Sand.


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## imported_aquaverde (May 5, 2003)

No time like the present, I always say. I don't like big jobs like substrate changes haning over my head, though. YMMv, etc. Assuming your tank has some accumulation of mulm, I would vacuum as much of that up as I could, decant the water after it settles, and dump it in the XP1. Then do what you need to do. I did this with some mulm from a 10g when setting up my 20, and never saw any ammonia register when tested, only a small amount of nitrite for about 3 days after about a week. And the mulm was from a tank that had only recently cycled itself.

James

armchair aquarist and former algae farmer


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

I changed the substrate tonight. That was quite a task to say the least. It took me five 5 gallon buckets to sort everything out, separate everything and still have two left over for water and my Onyx Sand. I think I found a pretty good way to rinse it out also. I put about half a bag in a five gallon bucket, tipped it over on its side and set my garden hose nozzle to the "gentle shower" setting.  If you put it down into the bucket so you get a cyclone action it keeps the real fine stuff suspended and washes it out in the run off. Then just dump the excess water off, dump it into a container and start again. I had a very small amount of cloudiness while I was replanting but the XP took care of it in 10 minutes. My water is crystal clear again.

I put a whole pack of fluorish tabs in at about 2 1/2 inches deep evenly spaced. Should help me out some I believe.

I think if I had it to do over again I would go with 1/2 Onyx Sand and 1/2 very small black gravel. It seems like it packs down very tight. Some larger particles would help that out. I do like the color very much though. My Cory Cats are much better looking on the blue gray sand than they were on the "bits of walnut" gravel. Now their colors don't appear washed out. I am now sold on dark substrates.

Stem plants seem to be hard to plant. Maybe it is my forceps. I need to find a pair of long tweezers I think. It would probably help. The stems pull back up when I pull up my forceps.

For anyone wanting to put peat below their substrate, make damned sure you have ALL of the water out of the bottom of your tank before you do so. I didn't think the little bit I still had in there would hurt anything, but when I put in a handful of peat it all just floated. That would have been quite a mess if I hadn't thought first. And it was quite a job to clean out all the muck before starting over.

Final note, to anyone starting out with planted tanks, do it right the first time. Seriously. You REALLY don't want to do what I did tonight. It was quite a job to tear down the tank and change the substrate. I can't even imagine having to do so on a larger tank. Go ahead and spend the money on the good substrate to start out with, it will save you money and LOTS of time in the long run. Had I known beforehand that I was going to get into planted tanks I would have just done this in the beginning. But I started out wanting a fish only tank. Then I started my addiction and it has been downhill from there.









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15XH, 36W PC, XP-1, Onyx Sand, DIY CO2

Crypts ciliata and wendtii bronze and red, "sunset" hygro, green hygro, pennywort, wisteria and java fern and moss.


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

For anyone wondering how Onyx Sand affects water chemistry, it didn't affect mine at all. After one week my water parameters are still at 8dKH and 23 dGH. No change whatsoever. Thought anyone looking at Onyx Sand might want to know.









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15XH, 36W PC, XP-1, Onyx Sand, DIY CO2

Crypts ciliata and wendtii bronze and red, "sunset" hygro, green hygro, pennywort, wisteria and java fern and moss.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

At those levels it is not going to affect the water chemistry. Now if you have tap water like mine.... pH 7.0, gH 0, kH 0, you will see an effect. It normally takes me up to around 7.4 of pH and the kH and gH around 2-3. I'm sure it would go a bit higher but I do weekly water changes.

Moderator










American by birth, Marine by the grace of God! This post spell checked with IESpell available at http://www.iespell.com

See my Profile for tank details.


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