# Help with Amazon Sword



## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

I am able to grow everything well in my 27 Gallon tank except my Amazon Sword. In fact, it is the only plant in the tank with algae on the leaves. 
I just added 2 more Seachem Flourite Tabs underneath it, like I have in the past. It is on a 'shelf' which is halfway up the tank closer to my light fixture similar to my crypts which seem to be doing well, if not at least better than they have in the past.

I have a Melon Sword which is all the way on the bottom of my tank smack dab in the middle which is growing very nicely now after having rebounded from a decline when I first put it into my tank.

Other than tearing the Amazon Sword out and starting fresh, *what 'miracle cure' should I perform to get this one last plant to THRIVE!*
I really prefer to do what I can with the plants that I have than to start fresh. I feel that if I can get an old dying plant to come back to life, 
I have gained the confidence to do whatever with the next plant of the same type if I have to.

So please let me know, *what miracle shot can I give this poor Amazon Sword? *
Thanks ahead of time for your help with this. out:


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

how many watts are over that tank?
Honestly I've done similiar things with my two swords in my 55 gal. 
Flourite sub, root tabs like crazy, ferts, c02, medium light. 2wpg.
and it just regrows new leaves and becomes very thick, not as tall as some that I have seen.
Because it grows sooo slowly it is prone to algae.

If you could give more info on your tank I'm sure I/or someone else could probably help more.

Amazon's will grow in almost any condition they just adapt leaf size and height to the enviroment. I have 1 in a 30 gal with stock lighting no ferts no co2 and it's probably the thickest sword I have, it's also been there for 2 years, plus it's only about 5 inches tall. lol


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Do you think alleochemicals could do it in? I could try a good sized water change to see if this helps. I have a 2x40 Watt Dual Daylight 6700k/10,000k USA Current Orbit light fixture which I have reduced the amount of light over my tank to help control past problems.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Not sure about your conditions in your tank, but swords do like typically like high co2/lighting/iron and nitrate.

If it has all of these things in ample supply, then it should flourish beyond control (and the boarders of your tank...).

I do not think allelopathy is a likely cause, it is probably something more simple.

More info about the problem/specs on your tank would be great. 

What kind of algae?


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

I do the Seachem Daily Dosage Schedule (most days) and also do the dry dosing with the metal spoons. 1 Dash and Smidgeon for the 10 Gallon tank and 2 for the 27 Gallon Tank that this Amazon Sword is in. 

The plant is close to the light (you can see the photos at the end of my thread for the 27 Gallon Tank) and has just sent out another small leaf. 
I don't know the name of the algae on the leaves, but it is like velvet. 

I use a 3 liter soda bottle for CO2 DIY diffusing which sends up constant tiny bubbles. Most of my tank is fine. I am tempted to rip the Amazon Sword out and somehow 'pot' the roots with a bunch of more Seachem Flourite Tablets and filter floss or something. I just hate having to do partial tear downs!

If I actually dose Excel right on the leaf, will that spot kill the algae?


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

I use Seachem Flourite and SoilMaster Select. I just read online that Amazon Swords need 12 hours of light. I had cut back to 8 hours of light because of past algae growing. This had worked. 

Now I read that Amazon Swords need very rich soil. Other than purchasing an new package to just put tons of tabs underneath this plant, what else may work? 

I think I read a post about someone taking some rich soil (forgot which) and made mud out of it, froze it into chunks so it was easier to work with, and shoved this under the substrate. 

Thoughts? Suggestions?


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## erik Loza (Feb 6, 2006)

Perhaps a sword is just not the plant for this particular tank? There were several plants that I put into my big tank that just withered away in time and died off. Others thrived, however, so that's what I choose to keep in there. If the rest of your plants are thriving, maybe just focus on those instead. I agree with what others have said. IME, swords will take as much light as you can give them provided the CO2 and a rich substrate are there to keep up. And, there is no 27 gallon tank on Earth that will hold a healthy adult Amazon Sword! Best of luck with the tank.


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## Lord Nibbler (Dec 22, 2005)

erik Loza said:


> *And, there is no 27 gallon tank on Earth that will hold a healthy adult Amazon Sword!*


True that. I had a broad-leafed sword that took up over half of a 37-gallon tall, all the way to the top.

Swords can get this weird finicky substrate/lighting thing going. One will be doing great then it suddenly starts to go yellow because it doesn't like the substrate all of a sudden. Or get algae because it decides it needs the brilliance of a thousand suns for lighting.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Maybe I will rip it out and replace with an Anubias. I will admit, the shelf and space may not be a large enough space for an Amazon Sword then.

Oh well..


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Swords can be grown without rich substrate/12 hr lighting. 

Just make sure they get enough of all the right nutrients and that the lighting is intense enough. I.e. 10hrs of T12 light probably won't cut it, but 10 hrs PC will.

I grew mine in fluorite w/ WC dosing. The thing grew like 2ft square in the tank, and then grew out of the water. Grows fast as heck.


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## jassar (Jul 30, 2006)

Ok, first of all, my Amazon sword has been living greatly in my low-light low tech aquarium (very very small too, 30L- 8 G ) for more than a year now, the leaves just adjusted to tank conditions somehow. As for the other one which thrives in my 30G, nothing special is done to it. So IMO Amazon swords adjust to any tank condition, just give it time and trimm any yellow/bad leaves, and if there's no SAE add one or two! they are the kings of algea eaters!
good luck
-Jassar


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

Have heard they are root feeders more than leaf. IME a bit of calcium near the root helps.[have used 1" chalk sticks before] This plant doesn't like to be moved. Anything to boost the growth of it's roots will ensure good growth. Had an E red rubin that took over half my 75G. Had to let it go as I could not plantanything under it save some shade plants. Difficult when you want a carpet of plants.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Okay, very important question here.  

The rhizome. rogar-Si Is this supposed to be IN the gravel and substrate? 

:twitch: Or will it ROT if the rhizome is BENEATH the substrate?!! :mad2: 

Is this like Java Fern and Anubias where it should be attached to a rock and the roots find their OWN way to the gravel?!?

And not to make a tangent, but will Melon Sword do this as well, so long as the CROWN is above the gravel but similarly ROT :-x 
if the crown is buried beneath the gravel? 

If so, I have been killing my Amazon Sword with Seachem Flourite and SoilMaster Select, and Seachem Flourite Tabs :icon_hang 
thinking that the roots and 
:rant: 
rhizome were supposed to be IN THE SUBSTRATE! :yell:

Thank goodness I have purchased a bag of small Barbeque lava rocks.... !


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Sword plants don't have a rhizome, they have a root crown, and that, plus the roots should be in the substrate. The crown should be visible with part of it above the level of the substrate, but the roots need to be in the substrate. My experience has been that these are not normally very picky plants. They grow with everything hanging out in the water, and with the whole crown buried. They just like to grow!! There are some that are harder to get to do that though, in my experience, such as those said to remain fairly small.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Well, mine is buried behind the beautiful Anubias that John N. sent to me, so it is not very visible. 

And this pathetic looking plant has the tiniest new sprout. 
I currently have the crown and roots in the substrate the way you describe. And I have put back all 5 Seachem Flourite Tabs right next to the roots. 

It can't be said that I kill plants purposely. In fact, this one is a test to that. Anyone else would have trashed it long ago. Well, the rest of them are gorgeous - so what is one ugly mother ....plant. 

Hoppy, when you have the time; I would love to explore the affordable, cheap way to do the Pressurized CO2. 
I know I have seen a thread on it before and read it. 
DIY CO2 is fun.... for awhile. I definitely can see why people quickly convert to the real stuff if they can afford it. 
Thanks.


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## erik Loza (Feb 6, 2006)

Jimbo205 said:


> Well, mine is buried behind the beautiful Anubias that John N. sent to me, so it is not very visible. And this pathetic looking plant has the tiniest new sprout. I currently have the crown and roots in the substrate the way you describe. And I have put back all 5 Seachem Flourite Tabs right next to the roots.


I have this vision of an aquarist bouncing all over the place, like Roger Rabbit, tugging up on the plant, pushing down on the plant, yanking stuff out of the gravel, shoving things back in, and the plant thinking to itself, "Can you just leave me alone for a while?".

As others have pointed out, swords are not terribly tough to grow. Lots of light, a fertile substrate, some CO2, and just leave them alone. My substrate is a 50/50 mix of Eco-Complete and Ferti-Plant with some extra laterite, with no additional fertilizers in the soil, 12 hours of light each day (maybe 3 wpg by the time it gets through the stem plants to the swords), and about 4 bubbles/ second when the controller triggers the CO2 system.

Honestly, I do nothing aside from keeping the overhead stem plants trimmed to let more light to the bottom and my big Rubin looks like a red octopus trying to climb out of the tank.

Just quit the fidgeting and nail-biting, quit messing with the plants, and bite the bullet for a good pressurized CO2 system (about $200 w/o electronic controller). Most important of all: Let the plants do their things. Best of luck.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

> Let the plants do their things.


 Erik, this Amazon Sword has been in my tank for about 2-3 years.

I believe what you all say, but that does not provide an answer or a solution for what I see with this poor thing.

This is like CPR. During training my class asked the instructor if we could hurt the person that we would be attempting CPR on. The response was, "The person is already dead, their heart has stopped which is what a heart attack does. You can't kill them. They are already dead. Even if you crack every rib in their body, you may be their ONLY chance. If it works, they come back to life and get a second chance. If it doesn't, it is not your fault. Again, they are already dead."

I am not about to disturb the plant again, but now I wish I had taken better photos of it with my camera while I was trimming the tank and 'rescaping'. Please take a look at photos on my 27 Gallon. You might be able to see it.

If the pathetic thing had not sprouted a new tiny leaf, it would have been pitched into the compost pile for the tomatoes. It might go there anyway.

Thank goodness all the rest of my plants are thriving including the Crypts. Otherwise, this could be frustrating.



> bite the bullet for a good pressurized CO2 system (about $200 w/o electronic controller).


 Oh, by the way, could I borrow $200? (I might be able to pay you back someday.)


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## wiste (Feb 10, 2006)

> Sword plants don't have a rhizome,





> A rhizome is a root like or stem like growth used to store sugars produced by the photosynthetic process. Rhizomes are called storage organs. Storage organs may be bulbs or root tubers (see Figure 6) or even the shoots that are sent out by some plants, like the Amazon sword plants, that new plants grow off of.


To help growth of the sword plant you could add additional light directed at the sword plant.
Sort of, spotlight the plant with light. Light with a reddish spectrum seems to work well.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Thank you.


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## rohape (Feb 7, 2005)

I know this is late, and your issue is probably solved by now. Swords are also massive iron mongers too, keep that in mind.
You had mentioned this a little earlier Jimbo, but your shelf may just not be big enough to support the demands for the root system. I had a MASSIVE amazon sword that took up half my 55gal. and the root system extended over 3/4 of the tank. 
I have found in my past experience that if there is a problem and you start getting overwhelmed by all of the dosing/lighting/substrate/etc. etc. etc. Just stop, take a breath and start from the very beginning. Do a water change, start with a basic dosing/lighting regime watch your plants for deficiency issues and identify the deficiencies as the come. Address this deficiency patiently and don't stray. 
Your tank is so amazing since the last time I saw it. Don't lose it now.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

I moved the Amazon Sword down below the Melon Sword and now it is doing fine. Logic does not seem to apply here. 

The first location did not work. The second location does work. Everything else is exactly the same. 

That's okay. Biology is not logical either. Beautiful and amazing, but no consistent logic to any of it. Each plant is like a child with its own pecularities and beauty. I just have to learn how each different plant specifically works. The irony of this, is that that is the oldest plant I have. I am pretty sure that it may also be my first plant. Rotala is the easy child. My Amazon Sword is my extremely fussy, finicky child. 

My next plant that I may fuss over is my Crypts. I have a cookie sheet (don't tell my wife) with a ziplock bag frozen flat in the basement freezer with rich mulm ice and black gold that I plan to shatter into pieces and put pieces of it underneath my gravel on the shelf to feed the Crypts more. I may even take them out and try to divide them (the crypts). I have come to love the look of barbeque lava rocks. The color looks great along with the nature of them. I have them on half the shelves now. I don't know if they are visible in any of the photos.

And Rohape, thank you for the compliment. You Melon Sword looks great as the centerpiece.


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## BillD (Jun 10, 2005)

You might try digging up the plant, and checking the bottom for a bulb. if there is one remove it and replant. This usually restarts the growth cycle. The bulb can than be replanted, and you will get one or more new plants from it.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

> My next plant that I may fuss over is my Crypts.


Jim, what's the problem with them, and which Crypts are they? I was curious. My wendtiis and spiralis, I just plant, and forget about them. Except for the occasional meltdown, they're almost as easy as my Anubias.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

> You might try digging up the plant, and checking the bottom for a bulb. if there is one remove it and replant. This usually restarts the growth cycle. The bulb can than be replanted, and you will get one or more new plants from it.


 This sounds good! Do they respond well to dirt well too? I am getting more comfortable with El Naturale and dirt is cheaper than Seachem Flourish Tabs.



> Jim, what's the problem with them, and which Crypts are they? I was curious. My wendtiis and spiralis, I just plant, and forget about them. Except for the occasional meltdown, they're almost as easy as my Anubias.


They are good. They just are not flourishing or spreading as much as I thought they would. I am wondering if my shelves are limited by light or substrate? Aren't Anubias GREAT!!!!? I just brought home my Betta Bowl @ the Office to thin and rescape. I took out the Dwarf Sag, added 1/2 to 1 inch of dirt on the bottom and put my Anubias back in. It is doing so great, if I wanted to I could cut the rhizome in half and spread it to another tank. I have to wait for the water and mulm to settle to put the HM in it. I figure if I put it smack dab in the middle of the Anubias, the HM will get the most light. I have to remember to cut the very tips to promote the side shoots and growth. Hard to get my hands in there and the HM is so tiny. I want to 'anchor' somewhere good and then watch my HM grow. At this point, the Betta has plenty of Anubias leaves to hide underneath or sleep on top of if he wants.


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