# [Wet Thumb Forum]-What am I doing wrong?



## JoeBanks (Jan 26, 2006)

I have a 180 gallon tank to which I added 8 discus 3 months ago. They seem to be doing well except for the fact that their colors are very dark and dull. I have patiently been waiting for their bright colors to appear, but there doesn’t seem to be any change after 3 months so I’m assuming there might be something wrong with the tank.

I have some ideas about what the problem could be, but I don’t know how much of an effect each issue would have. If anyone has experience with this, please let me know:

Possible reasons for poor discus coloration:

Light is too bright? (440 watts)
Water is not clean enough? (I use an Ocean-clear filter, but my water is never completely clear).
Temperature is too low? (81-83 F)
Insufficient feeding? (Omega one flake food once a day, and Jack Wattley Discus Formula – 3 cubes per day)
Insufficient water changes? (25% once a week)

Nitrates, phosphates, etc are all within normal range for a planted tank.

Would any of these issues lead to unhappy discus?


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

i would say if any it's the clean water. you said it was never really clean? you may want to look into a canister filter or somthing. i doubt it's the lighting and your temperature is within normal limits.

don't go by me though, ask around some more.

as for the water changes, i have found 50% a week to be very nice. i know that's 90 gallons a week, so that may not even be possible for you.


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## Wahter (Nov 15, 2004)

Just curious - what do you mean, the water is never completely clear?

Do you have a dark gravel substrate and/ or a dark background? Discus will lighten up if they are in lighter colored surroundings.


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## JoeBanks (Jan 26, 2006)

There are always lots of small particles floating around in the water. I'm going to try reconfiguring my filtration system to get the water cleaner. I have black eco-complete substrate, but it is mostly covered by glosso. The tank is 100% planted.


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

You seem to have all the requirements to keep discus happy, but you don't post your pH. What is the tank's pH? Ideally, it should be down around 6 to 6.5 depending on the type of discus you're keeping. If you have wild discus then I would go for a pH of around 5.4 to 5.8. Also, water changes at a rate of 25% once a week is not sufficient for discus. Jack Watley recommends something like daily 50% water changes if your tap water is good. If not, then a smaller water change every other day is in order. In a discus tank, I would certainly not change the water less than three times a week.

-ricardo


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## JoeBanks (Jan 26, 2006)

My PH is 6.4. I think the problem is the water clarity. I added two more filters to my system, so now the water is triple filtered. I've noticed one of the discus starting to lighten since I installed the extra filtration. The water still isn't crystal clear because my pump is now not strong enough to push the water through 3 filters at a decent rate. I've ordered a much stronger pump to increase the turover.


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

Sounds like it could be a water quality problem, then? I would def. start chaging the water at least three times a week, as is generally recommended.

-ricardo


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## JoeBanks (Jan 26, 2006)

I have started changing the water 3 times a week, but since it is a heavily planted tank, the quality of the water is generally very good. I keep nitrates at 5ppm. I'm assuming that nitrate buildup is the main reason discus tank water is changed so frequently.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

The water changes will definately help. You might want to change up their food diet too. There are some great foods out there that are suppose to enhance the colors.

-John N.


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## JoeBanks (Jan 26, 2006)

I have now bought a stronger pump for better circulation through my 3 filters. The water qualtiy is as good as it can get. I'm doing 25% water changes twice a week. I'm feeding Omega-One flake foods as well as spirulina-fed frozen brine shrimp. All the parameters are correct, but still no change in the discus. One more possiblity - tank mates. I have 3 gold gouramis which were in the tank before I got the discus. There doesn't seem to be any interaction between the species, but maybe the discus are intimidated by the gouramis? I also have 8 SAE's which have grown fairly large and are constantly scooting around the tank competing with the discus for food. I feed them plenty, so the discus should be getting enough, but maybe the SAE's make them nervous. Any chance this could effect discus color?


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## JoeBanks (Jan 26, 2006)

Never mind. I've found the answer.

Dark color + low appetite + hiding + white feces = parasitic infection. Medicating them should solve the problem.


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## imported_chrismisc (Jul 25, 2004)

Hi Joe,

I've been watching this thread for awhile waiting for any epiphanies, since one of my fish is also dark-colored. What info I've found alsways pointed toward dark skin being a "skin" problem, so I wondered which parasite you found was the cause of the symptoms you mentioned? I've actually got a pair of fish though, with one being pretty dark & the other still looking good, so I could have a completely different problem (or one totally infested fish & one that's coping), but I thought I'd ask. Thanks for any thoughts, and please let us know waht treatment regimen you end up using and whether you get the reseults you're hoping for from it.


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## JoeBanks (Jan 26, 2006)

I gave the fish 3 different medications for all types of parasites. They seem to be more active now, and are no longer hiding. They are eating well, amd seem to be growing, but their color still hasn't improved. I'm starting to think that it has something to do with the source that I got them from. I ordered them from a website that imports them from overseas. This must put alot of stress on them which supresses their color for a long time. I just received more discus today from a breeder, and the color of the new discus is already better than the ones that have been in the tank for 4 months.


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## imported_DiabloCanine (Mar 13, 2006)

Have you considered feeding frozen blood worms instead of brine shrimp? I never feed my discus brine, the ecoskelton can cause problems? What is the GH of your water? High TDS will bother discus big time especially wilds. PH is no big deal as long as it is stable. I would keep temps minimum 84 degrees F. Very difficult keeping discus in a planted tank, need to keep the ferts up for the plants which raises GH and discus do not like that. I believe they will adapt with moderation, my TDS is around 250, GH is 6 and mine adapted. They do darken up when spooked or pouting.


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## JoeBanks (Jan 26, 2006)

I would prefer to feed frozen blood worms, but I'm extremely allergic to them. My GH is 7-8, and I don't want to raise my temp higher than 82 because the plants stop growing.

One thing I noticed lately is that the discus that were dark are no longer dark, but they're still not showing their colors. I have two 4-5 inch Siam Master Reds that I got from SomethingsPhishy.com. The picture on the website showed them as being a solid vivid red color, but the ones in my tank are greyish pink. I also got two red-turquoise from the same place. They were both 3 inches when I got them. One of them has not grown at all, but it showing good color. The other has grown to 4 inches, but is mostly dark, and always displays stress bars. Very strange, I can't figure it out.


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## imported_chrismisc (Jul 25, 2004)

My TDS is 127, GH is 75 ppm, KH 0, pH 6.4, temp. 82 degrees. I use slow-release fertilizer tabs about 4x a year, but otherwise let the plants languish in whatever natural fertilzer the fish supply


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## JoeBanks (Jan 26, 2006)

How do you measure TDS?


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## imported_chrismisc (Jul 25, 2004)

I bought an APEC 5-stage RO unit, and part of the schtick was you got a free TDS meter ("A $40 value!" or some such thing) that lets you monitor the lifespan of the RO membrane: increasing TDS = change the filter. My water out of the tap ranges from 4-7 ppm, my fish tank is in the low hundreds, and the UNtreated tap water is 350-something. The meter goes up to 9999 ppm, and beer (it was late, I was bored) is 470-something.


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## imported_banderbe (Feb 17, 2006)

> Originally posted by chrismisc:
> My TDS is 127, GH is 75 ppm, KH 0, pH 6.4, temp. 82 degrees. I use slow-release fertilizer tabs about 4x a year, but otherwise let the plants languish in whatever natural fertilzer the fish supply


If your KH is zero then you are "crusin' for a brusin'" as they say.

Your pH will crash and your fish will die. You need a KH of at least 3 to be relatively safe and to avoid any build up that would cause a pH crash.


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## imported_chrismisc (Jul 25, 2004)

I've had a KH of zero for three and a half years, so my luck's probably going to run out here shortly. Other than reconstituting RO with some tap water (not an option for me, as the tap water out here is bad news), what's everyone adding back? I use that Kent RO Right to get the GH up. Do I use baking soda?


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## JoeBanks (Jan 26, 2006)

If you're not supplementing CO2, then there is no reason for your pH to suddenly crash, although it could slowly decrease over time. A KH buffer is only a must for tanks with unregulated CO2 supplementation. 

Baking soda is commonly used to raise KH.


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