# Algae Problems



## chipster55 (Apr 21, 2008)

Hi all-
I have been reading this and other forums on planted tanks for the last few weeks and have tried some of the advice given for algae issues. My tank parameters are as follows. PH=7.0, Amm=0, Nitrite=0, Nitrate=5, KH=10, GH=18, PO=.1. I have a 55 gallon planted tank with neons only..I have two 24 inch Aqua Lights which each have a 65 watt output. I have them on a time for 8 hrs per day. I have 2 canister filters (Cascade 1200 amd an a marineland C-220). These are keeping good movement on the surface. I have a pressurized C02 system with ph regulator. I have been fertilizing (15 to 20 mm, about 5 cap fulls each week) with Tropica Aqua-care liquid fertizler. Tank is not in direct sunlight. Eventually want to put a couple Discus in. I have had the planted tank for around 6 months and have been trying to learn and conquer all the issues that go with planted tank begore moving to Discus. I do have another tank (29 gal bare bottom) that I will use to grow them out. Here's the problem I have gotten into. Black Brush Algae has started growing in my tank and is starting to get out of control. I am on my 3rd day of high doses of excel (15 ml per day) but I don't see much of it turning red and going away. Also in the last two weeks I have started seeing some Blue-Green Algae forming on the substrate. I just got done with some major pruning and cleaning in the tank. From what I've read it seems like I got everything right so I am at a loss why this algae has become an issue. Could there be a problem with circulation at bottom of tank and if so what size powerhead would be suitable for this size tank. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## chipster55 (Apr 21, 2008)

chipster55 said:


> Hi all-
> I have been reading this and other forums on planted tanks for the last few weeks and have tried some of the advice given for algae issues. My tank parameters are as follows. PH=7.0, Amm=0, Nitrite=0, Nitrate=5, KH=10, GH=18, PO=.1. I have a 55 gallon planted tank with neons only..I have two 24 inch Aqua Lights which each have a 65 watt output. I have them on a time for 8 hrs per day. I have 2 canister filters (Cascade 1200 amd an a marineland C-220). These are keeping good movement on the surface. I have a pressurized C02 system with ph regulator. I have been fertilizing (15 to 20 mm, about 5 cap fulls each week) with Tropica Aqua-care liquid fertizler. Tank is not in direct sunlight. Eventually want to put a couple Discus in. I have had the planted tank for around 6 months and have been trying to learn and conquer all the issues that go with planted tank begore moving to Discus. I do have another tank (29 gal bare bottom) that I will use to grow them out. Here's the problem I have gotten into. Black Brush Algae has started growing in my tank and is starting to get out of control. I am on my 3rd day of high doses of excel (15 ml per day) but I don't see much of it turning red and going away. Also in the last two weeks I have started seeing some Blue-Green Algae forming on the substrate. I just got done with some major pruning and cleaning in the tank. From what I've read it seems like I got everything right so I am at a loss why this algae has become an issue. Could there be a problem with circulation at bottom of tank and if so what size powerhead would be suitable for this size tank. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


I forgot to tell you my oxygen saturation is 30ppm..I do have a drop checker in tank.


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

Okay....From the numbers you've posted and what you've said, I suggest a few things to address the algae issues you're experiencing. First, your water's a bit hard so if you can, get those numbers down somewhat. You can do that in a number of ways...peatmoss (for that purpose) that's widely available and goes in the canister filter along with other medium that you use, water softening pillows or using RO-water, are some examples.

Another thing that tells me that you need to get your fertilization in order so that your plants can better thrive and keep the algae from thriving, is to get a better balance of ferts than you have now. Since you have the pressurized CO2 on the tank and presumably want to continue using it I'd suggest that you use Estimative Index Dosing (EI) instead of using the ferts that you are applying now. It's just easier to do and results are more consistent. I think that your dearth of nitrates vis-a-vis the phosphates is keeping your plants from growing the way that they should and so the algae is taking advantage of the situation.

Take a look at this:

http://www.ukaps.org/EI.htm

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/EI.htm

Those explain EI-dosing. It is really simple and not expensive at all and leads to an easy way to fertilizing consistently for good results. I dose the powders directly into my planted tank and never have any issues about fish health, etc. I get my dry ferts here:

http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/index.asp?Option1=products

..and like what I get, but there are other sources as well.


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## chipster55 (Apr 21, 2008)

Thanks for your reply...I have been reading about that since I posted..Seems to be easy enough..I do have an r/o system but haven't been using it lately....I had added one of those cheap plastic float valves that didn't work one night and you can guess the rest...What additional test kits should I get and do you use a scale to measure?


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

You wouldn't need a scale to measure. I use the kind of measuring spoons that they sell at a kitch-type store. They're easy to find. I suggest that if you do decide to do the EI-dosing that you double up on your order of the potassim nitrate because that's dosed more than the other "macros," and so used up more quickly. 

If you have the RO unit, I'd recommend using it...I do since I already have that for my marine tanks and I find that it allows you greater control of the water's make-up than dealing with what comes out of the tap, especially if you live in a region where the water's hard.

The float valves are easy to get and maybe you'd get a better one if you order from a fish site than if you get one at a HD or something like that, but that's just a guess.


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## chipster55 (Apr 21, 2008)

Thanks again for all the info...I have new hope again..I did buy the float valve at popular online retailer. What kind and what size of container do you use for holding tank for r/o water? I was using a plastic 35 gal kitchen type trash can.. I have the r/o unit already hanging on wall..I just need to get a system I can trust (shut-off). I also have the pump and tubing for transfer..Only problem is this tank is in my office and I forget to shut water off when I leave so I have kind of left it in Limbo...I will be trying the ei system and going to links you gave to order...Also what tesying kits do you use.


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

Here's a photo of my RO/DI setup...










The resevoir is probably much the same as yours...I bought it at HD and it serves me well enough. I have a feed coming from the resevoir that goes by way of vinyl tubing to a small water pump that allows me to move the water to the tanks by way of a long vinyl tube since the tanks are in a room next to the utility room where the RO unit is. You can see that there are two black rings visiable. The one on the left-side brings the water from the resevoir to the water pump...and...on the one on the upper right-hand corner of the resevoir is a safety that would divert the water from the resevoir to a sink in the event that the float-valve ever failed to avoid the kind of flooding that you appear to have experienced. By the way, the "black rings" are actually water-proof bulkheads that are put onto a drilled hole in the wall of the resevoir. If you're interested in this setup and something isn't clear, just ask for more of an explanation.

As for test kits, I had always used Seachem, but more recently I've used Elos and API. The API's are the least expensive and actually, I've found them to be as reliable as the others.


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## chipster55 (Apr 21, 2008)

That is a nice setup..I noticed you used a large Tote for your holding area...I do have a couple questions..I see your pump is outside the holding area..How do you get water to flow to pump after it is below out line? I have my pump at the bottom of storage tank and pump directly from there to tank (In my case it's just 15 ft to Tank). How does your holding tank know when it is full..I didn't see anything that stops water from r/o unit to holding tank? I am assuming that the float valve on right is protection from overflow on water after it leaves holding area and is pumped to tank. Maybe I misunderstood how you explained it..Either way great set-up. I was wondering what tests you ran on water for minerals,ph,etc. Thanks


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi chipster55,

I had a problem with BGA in one of my tanks for about six months. I increased KNO3 to a daily dose of 1/8 tsp per 10 gallons with a weekly 33% water change. The BGA was gone in about 6 weeks.


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## chipster55 (Apr 21, 2008)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi chipster55,
> 
> I had a problem with BGA in one of my tanks for about six months. I increased KNO3 to a daily dose of 1/8 tsp per 10 gallons with a weekly 33% water change. The BGA was gone in about 6 weeks.


Thanks I think I'm going to give it a shot with the EI program, which should allow me to control the KNO3. This is some kind of learning curve with these planted taks..My tank was beautiful up until 3 weeks ago..The plants are still real healthy but that algae just showed up one day and will take over if I don't get something done.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

It could be that your plant mass used up all the available nutrients. People forget to adjust for plant mass. With EI you don't have to worry about that.


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

chipster55 said:


> That is a nice setup..I noticed you used a large Tote for your holding area...I do have a couple questions..I see your pump is outside the holding area..[1]*How do you get water to flow to pump after it is below out line? *I have my pump at the bottom of storage tank and pump directly from there to tank (In my case it's just 15 ft to Tank). [2]*How does your holding tank know when it is full*..I didn't see anything that stops water from r/o unit to holding tank? I am assuming that the float valve on right is protection from overflow on water after it leaves holding area and is pumped to tank. Maybe I misunderstood how you explained it..Either way great set-up. [3]I was wondering what tests you ran on water for minerals,ph,etc. Thanks


Okay, maybe what I added to the pic would explain it better for you, chipster....










[1]The vinyl tubing goes from the bottim of the resevoir tank up to that bulkhead on the left and then through and down to the pump which is plumbed dry there where you see it. (you can also see the on-off switch...in white...that operates the pump there right after the manual ball-valve that's black.) I plumbed the pump on the "out" side (below the inverted "J-tube") with Eheim double disconnects so that I can use either a short tube to the sink which is only about 3-feet way, or change it to a very long tube of about 25-feet to get to the fish tanks in the next room.

[2]When the water goes from the RO unit to the resevoir, it goes by way of the skinny yellow tube to the float valve and drips down from there and when the water level reaches the height of the float valve, the float goes up and closes the incoming water, thereby stopping any more water from going in. But, if the float valve should fail for any reason, there's that insurance up there on the upper left that I've labeled which brings any water that reaches it down to the sink via PVC piping.

[3] I test for KH and GH after the 50% weekly-waterchange, and adjust with the GH Booster (which I get from the same source as the other EI ferts) at that time. I also use Seachem Alkaline Buffer to raise KH. I recently ran into a problem of nitrate deficiency because I was dosing for a tank of 40-60-gallons but because I have so much light and CO2 going, I should have been dosing for a 60-80-gallon tank. I think that dictates that you ought to test regularly for nitrate levels to that they don't fall short of the plants's needs. I also have a drop checker to monitor CO2 levels and I suggest that you get one of those.


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

Tex Gal said:


> It could be that your plant mass used up all the available nutrients. People forget to adjust for plant mass. With EI you don't have to worry about that.


I learned the hard way that not testing when using EI-dosing isn't wise. Because EI-dosing is somewhat formulaic, it's suggested for a range of tank sized. If you have a large "plant mass" you should dose in the direction of the next higher tank range. But, because it's not possible to know for sure if that's a perfect fit for your tank, monitoring nitrates by testing...at least in the beginning and then more sporadically later on...IMO is really advisable.


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## chipster55 (Apr 21, 2008)

Avi said:


> Okay, maybe what I added to the pic would explain it better for you, chipster....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Got it...I think I'm going to try same set-up..Couple questions..Where did you get float valve and what kind (It's problaby like mine I imagine). What size is your pump? This may sound dumb but does the pump suck the water from the resevoir out to the tank? I have a submersable pump but I like you're set-up better. Lastly what do you have hanging on wall above R/O unit? Thanks for the time explaining..


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## chipster55 (Apr 21, 2008)

Avi said:


> I learned the hard way that not testing when using EI-dosing isn't wise. Because EI-dosing is somewhat formulaic, it's suggested for a range of tank sized. If you have a large "plant mass" you should dose in the direction of the next higher tank range. But, because it's not possible to know for sure if that's a perfect fit for your tank, monitoring nitrates by testing...at least in the beginning and then more sporadically later on...IMO is really advisable.


That's my plan until I figure what good dosage levels are..Thanks


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

chipster55 said:


> Got it...I think I'm going to try same set-up..Couple questions..Where did you get float valve and what kind (It's problaby like mine I imagine). What size is your pump? This may sound dumb but does the pump suck the water from the resevoir out to the tank? I have a submersable pump but I like you're set-up better. Lastly what do you have hanging on wall above R/O unit? Thanks for the time explaining..


I got the float valve from

http://www.purelyh2o.com/

...but, honestly they don't know as much as they ought to about the whole RO/DI subject. If you're just going to buy a float valve, I'd say you'd be all right to get it from them, but if you need any level of advice at all, don't use them. Instead use

http://www.thefilterguys.biz/ro_di_systems.htm

_*they*_ know what they're talking about.

The pump I use is a

http://www.marinedepot.com/powerheads_pumps_hydor_seltz-ap.html

If I remember correctly, I have the L30 model. It isn't bigger than that one. I have that switch right in front that you can see in the photo that I recommend that you also use (from HD, Lowes, etc.) You want the on-off to be very convenient and having that switch out front like I do really works well and even can avoid a little flooding in certain instance when you need quick access.

You can also see in the photo that I have a ball-valve on the vinyl tubing before the pump. That's something that you must have in order to easily and conveniently control the water coming out of the resevoir. I got it with a phosphate reactor but you can buy them at

www.marinedepot.com
www.drsfostersmith.com

...or other well-stocked Internet vendors.

When that ball-valve is opened, the siphon-action starts working and water flows to the pump and out even if the pump isn't turned on. The pump just makes the water faster for when I want that like when I'm refilling a tank after a water change.

I use that J-tube because it conveniently reversed the "out" from the pump and so I don't have any crimping that I would have if I just used vinyl tubing. I got that from www.Marinedepot.com
It's something that is standard for use with German canisters like Eheims and Fluvals and they sell them as spare parts at the two vendors listed just above. They come in different guages so you figure out your gauge from the size that you use for the out/in of the pump you get. The J-tube you'd use has to fit *inside* the tubing you use _*as does the ball-valve that I mentioned above*_ so mention that when you discuss your order with the vendor.

The canister above the RO unit is just the "sediment" medium which is the first stage of my RO/DI unit.


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## chipster55 (Apr 21, 2008)

Avi said:


> I got the float valve from
> 
> http://www.purelyh2o.com/
> 
> ...


Thats great..I really appreciate your time explaining this to me..I'm waiting to conquer this then convert my 75 gal at home to planted..


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

chipster55 said:


> Thats great..I really appreciate your time explaining this to me..I'm waiting to conquer this then convert my 75 gal at home to planted..


I just hope that you can follow all that I've said. I know that it's a lot to follow...and I wrote it all while enjoying a new Bourbon that I just got so you have your job to do. Any other questions and I'd be happy to help you with them...


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## chipster55 (Apr 21, 2008)

Avi said:


> I just hope that you can follow all that I've said. I know that it's a lot to follow...and I wrote it all while enjoying a new Bourbon that I just got so you have your job to do. Any other questions and I'd be happy to help you with them...


You've earned the Bourbon...I am sure I will probably run into something as I go, but I got the general thought pattern going now. Thanks


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