# Crossing curiosity



## D9Vin (May 12, 2011)

I see alot of hybrid species of plants, particularly ludwigia's. Are these all naturally occurring, or man made crosses? If the latter, how is this accomplished? Cross pollenation of emersed flowers? Or some crazy stem splicing technique?


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## asukawashere (Mar 11, 2009)

Many of them, such as the variety of Ludwigia and Cryptocoryne hybrids, occur naturally, via cross-pollination in parts of their ranges that overlap or have overlapped in the past.

However, some hybrids - such as the plethora of German-made swordplants - are produced artificially by nurseries. Again, this is accomplished via cross-pollination, not some kind of mysterious genetics lab splicing technique. Though that would be cool...

So, in short, it's a little bit of both, but it's all accomplished in the same way.


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## D9Vin (May 12, 2011)

I wasn't talking about gene splicing but rather splicing as you would a fruit tree. So after pollenating, you would need to wait for seed?


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## asukawashere (Mar 11, 2009)

Oh! You meant grafting  A grafted plant isn't a true hybrid, since any given cell in said grafted plant is genetically either entirely one species or the other. With a hybrid, every single cell contains a mix of DNA from the two (or more) parent species.

But yes, the process typically involves pollinating one species' flower with pollen from another species, producing viable hybrid seeds, and then planting those seeds to grow a hybrid plant. As many hybrids are sterile, though, further propagating the hybrid is usually done vegetatively or via runners, root division, or other means of asexual reproduction.

Plant hybridizing is further complicated by the fact that not all plants are diploid (having two sets of matched chromosomes). Some are triploid (three sets) or even hexaploid (6 sets). As such, you can get hybrids of more than just 2 species - bread wheat, for instance, has genes from 3 different grasses and 6 sets of chromosomes. '

There are genetically modified plants (which_ are _produced by splicing genes in freaky hi-tech genetics labs). But, that's almost exclusively done with food crops and the like, not the species we use in tanks. It's an expensive process and the market for aquarium plants just isn't large enough to support GM research into making new varieties. Even those weird GM glofish were a byproduct of environmental research, not originally intended to be sold in pet stores.

After awhile, it starts to hurt to think about it. In short, aquatic plant hybrids happen with cross-pollination, and sometimes plants inherit genes from more than just two parent species.


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## D9Vin (May 12, 2011)

Wow, thanks asuka. Very informative!


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

_Ludwigia_ species cross in nature very frequently, often making identification quite difficult. Some crosses are sterile, but others are not; many species are in fact of hybrid origin. Very interesting stuff.

And yes, it is by pollination between species. That there are so many combinations and possible combinations is interesting for us because the results are essentially a new plant, at least in terms of aquarium use. Somewhere in Alabama there exists a natural cross between _L. pilosa_ and _L. arcuata_!


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## D9Vin (May 12, 2011)

Well, I got some L. repens going crazy in my emersed, and I just added some L. arcuata, so I am going to see what I can do. Thanks guys!


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## asukawashere (Mar 11, 2009)

If you're going to go to all the trouble of artifically hybridizing Ludwigia spp., why not go for a combo that's not readily available in the hobby (or naturally occurring)? Something really obscure, that we wouldn't normally think of. Like Cavan's new-to-the-hobby L. alata crossed with L. inclinata, or L. ovalis x sedoides, or L. x lacustris crossed to L. repens x arcuata (somehow I doubt the last would be viable, but it's fun to imagine XD).

I wonder what would happen if one were to cross a submersible Ludwigia with a non-submersible one... maybe I should try and cross something with my L. peploides and see what happens... ' 

Also, someone please buy me a plane ticket to Alabama for Xmas. Or my birthday, though it'll be even colder outside by then. The south has all the unusual (=cool) aquarium plants, I swear... though, I suppose they would claim the species 'round here are exotic to them. Reminds me of my last trip to Florida, where the hotel receptionist excitedly recommended a bird sanctuary where they had nesting mallards (as if baby mallards were some totally foreign concept). Had me totally baffled until I looked up the breeding range of mallards and found it was well north of the Florida emerald coast.


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## D9Vin (May 12, 2011)

As for not going for a more 'obscure' hybrid, my reply is baby steps. Let's see if I can even get these two to flower simultaneously, successfully cross pollenate, and grow from seed before I start going really Dr Frankenstein on it. But if I am successful, you can bet I will be trying to get the most random crosses I can think of.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

A dark and stormy night, lighting cracks overhead, a new Ludwigia is created. Ha ha ha ha!


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## asukawashere (Mar 11, 2009)

If you want something that flowers like there's no tomorrow on a more or less daily basis, I can send you some of my L. palustris. It's a regular flower machine, and prone to hybridizing in the wild (being a component of both L. x lacustris and L. palustris x glandulosa).


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## miremonster (Mar 26, 2006)

asukawashere said:


> the plethora of German-made swordplants





Cavan Allen said:


> That there are so many combinations and possible combinations is interesting for us because the results are essentially a new plant, at least in terms of aquarium use. Somewhere in Alabama there exists a natural cross between L. pilosa and L. arcuata!


They have managed to create a huge swordplant mix-up in the trade here in Europe... hardly anyone is still able to see through that... I'm afraid the same would happen if a lot of Ludwigia hybrid cultivars will be bred


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## asukawashere (Mar 11, 2009)

It's not just Europe, LOL. Florida Aquatic Nurseries has gotten ahold of several of those swords and is propagating them here. Some of them are pretty cool, but they all have names in German that none of us American can pronounce. ^_^' I particularly like saying 'Tanzende Feuerfeder'

But yeah, anytime you get nurseries hybridizing plants there's a chance for crazy over-the-top cultivars. But, if you think about it, that's how we have such an astounding variety of roses, waterlilies, etc.


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## D9Vin (May 12, 2011)

Eh, say hybridize them like crazy! Scientific names are for scientists working in a river. Watch out for my ludwigia sp. D9v1. Haha.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

miremonster said:


> They have managed to create a huge swordplant mix-up in the trade here in Europe... hardly anyone is still able to see through that... I'm afraid the same would happen if a lot of Ludwigia hybrid cultivars will be bred


That's true. There exists somewhere a hybrid of _L. arcuata_ and _L. brevipes_. If I had any, I don't think I'd give any away because there's so much confusion already! Many of the North American species hybridize readily (especially section _Microcarpa_), so we have to be careful that what we find and grow isn't a hybrid already. There's a distinct possibility that what we're calling_ L. pilosa_ is a hybrid of that and _L. sphaerocarpa_.


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## Silvering (Jun 10, 2011)

But just think, someday we'll all have home DNA-sequencing kits so we can definitively ID even the hybrids.


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## D9Vin (May 12, 2011)

That's going to totally ruin the Maury show...


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