# Questions, tips, and advice on growing plants outdoors



## Church (Sep 16, 2007)

I now have the first opportunity I've ever had, since getting into planted FW aquaria, to start some growout tubs outside. The problem is, I don't know where to start!

The only thing I have so far been able to imagine is that I can get some pond liners and lay them on the ground, without digging any earth away, and fill them with some type of aquatic soil, like Schultz for instance. But then what?

I've visited a local aquatic nursery several times and admired their setup, which is essentially a bunch of interconnected concrete "ponds" with a recirculating water setup. But they are a commercial facility so obviously I can't duplicate them too closely for my needs.

I want to keep it as simple as possible, while at the same knowing that it will require a good amount of daily maintenance. That's okay by me, I need a few outdoor projects. But I really don't know too much about the routines or requirements of an outdoor aquatic plant setup.

Here are the few points that are confusing me at the moment:

1) *Do I really need to recirculate the water?* I have a natural pond in my back yard that doesn't recirculate, and it has a an entire carpet of dwarf hairgrass on its shores that looks so healthy, I've even considered pulling some out to put in my tanks! (I chose not to only because I didn't want to go through the trouble of disinfecting any parasites or critters or whatever).

2) *How much natural light am I going to want to provide?* Parts of my yard are in full sunlight, while other parts are completely shaded. Do I shoot for a half and half mix of the two? Does it depend, as I suspect, on the specific plants? I've just never grown any aquatic plants under the great halide-in-the-sky before, so the unknowns are driving me crazy.

3) *I don't want to deal with too much algae or surface scum, and I know this sort of pertains to my point #1, but provided I don't have to recirculate the water, would just some gambusia and/or other surface dwellers like mollies or least killifish be able to keep these at bay?*

4) *Will I need to fertilize the water in addition to the nutrients that come in the aquatic soil?* I suspect I will, at least for plants that aren't heavy root feeders. But if so, how different is the theory behind fertilizing a "pond" as opposed to an aquarium?

5) In case you haven't figured it out now, I'm trying to avoid recirculating water just so I can avoid using electricity. *But if I do need to recirculate, is there such a thing as a solar powered pond pump?*

Hmmm. I think I covered the most pressing questions I have, but I'm sure there are plenty more. *One more thing I'm concerned about is making sure that these tubs won't be poisonous or dangerous to any of the wildlife that frequents our property.* I'm talking about LOTS of frogs and birds, and all sorts of beneficial insects.

If anyone is reading this, and would like to offer some advice, or share some personal experience, I'm all ears.

Thanks.


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## wicca27 (Oct 13, 2008)

Get some cheep plastic storage tubs add substrate and a air stone and a few snails like mts rams horn or apple and ur good to go if algae is a prob get some floating plants or fine leaved ones like hornwort should b all u need


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## Church (Sep 16, 2007)

Thanks for the response, wicca. I'm really hoping to not have to add anything electric, but if I must, I must.

Anyone else care to chime in?


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## wicca27 (Oct 13, 2008)

The reason i say airstone is so it does not get stannant that will tend to cause the plants to rot. If u want to do small water changes ecery couple days im sure that would work too. If u put some feeder gups in the tubs it will help fertilize


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## armedbiggiet (May 6, 2006)

I did it with a power head. You must have water follow at all time and I connected a tube on the power head for blowing out air bubbles to keep the water fresh... that is I keep them growing above water surface.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Solar option...

Solar cells are usually set up to supply 12 v power. 

Air bubblers used by fishermen to keep bait and catch alive are 12 volt. 

I'll bet you can figure out something along those lines without having to run power to the mini-ponds. 

Plants will vary in their preference. Can you set these up with morning sun, or dappled light under a tree most of the day? I would avoid hotter, more intense sun from noon on. It would also overheat small volumes of water such as you are thinking about. 

Pre-formed ponds are OK without the support of soil; above grade. However, the insulation of sinking them at least 3/4 deep into the soil will help year round to keep the water temperature more stable. If you dig deep enough to sink them half way, then pack around them with the soil you removed this would help a lot. 

I would add mosquito eating fish. The smaller ones are good, they won't disturb the plants as they swim about. 

Try about a 2" bed of garden soil as substrate. Have a look in the El Natural forum for more ideas about this. 

Fence them in if there is any possibility of wildlife reaching them. The plants could get torn up by something chasing the fish. 

Depending on where you are you might think about setting up a mini greenhouse to cover them in the winter. You might lay them out with this in mind. Any framework that you set up for a winter greenhouse could also be used in the summer to support shade cloth.


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## Church (Sep 16, 2007)

Diana, thank you very much for that informative post! That's exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for. (Thank you wicca and armedbiggiet, too!)

So, I accept the fact that moving water and air bubbles are what keep the ponds from becoming stagnant, but I just figured that maybe having photosynthesizing plants might have helped to offset that. Maybe not? I did already plan on doing regular water changes, but I don't know if that's enough to replace the need for moving water or not.

At any rate, I'm now thinking I will have to setup a solar cell. We already have one that powers up all of our lawn lighting, so I'm going to see if I can tap into that. I don't really know if it will provide enough power, but I'll at least look into it. Otherwise, it looks like I'll be setting up a new solar cell, just for this project. (I knew being an electrician's apprentice when I was young would come back to benefit me later on!)

I was already planning on stocking each tub with gambusia (mosquito fish) and maybe some least killifish. These are both 2 kinds of fish that I have a seemingly infinite supply of, as they are found in the wild all around me. If I didn't get these, I was inevitably going to have a mosquito problem. But now I'm wondering, if I'm going to have moving water, will these fish be able to eat? Mosquito's aren't going to lay larvae down on the water if it's moving, right? So doesn't that negate the need for the fish?

Diana, I like what you said about burying the tubs in the ground for temperature stabilization. That's something I don't think I would have thought of on my own until it was too late. That's one of the many reasons why I knew I had to start a thread, because dang it, I just don't know everything!  But I'm starting to think now, if I'm going to have power running out there anyway, maybe I should just plumb all the tubs together into a recirculating system, and connect an inline heater to it during the winter months. I don't know how practical that is though?

Of course, if I plumb it all together, that opens up another possibility: I could connect a rain barrel to the reservoir with an auto-top-off kind of thing, which will make me feel even greener!

As far as blocking the ponds off from critters, that's definitely a concern that my brain hasn't even approached yet. We get a lot of critters through our yard, from raccoons to armadillos to birds of prey to our housecat, and more. I was kind of hoping this could just be done in an innocuous sort of way, so that it just wouldn't be appealing to these critters. I didn't expect to have any colorful or large fish, that would catch a predator's eye or anything like that. And plus, I have a large, natural pond back there that I would think would be way more interesting to these critters in the first place. I mean, that one's stocked with turtles, large fish, all kinds of birds, etc.

Then, lastly, the placement under the sun. As I said before, Diana, I have the option of placing these tubs under just about any combination of shade or full sunlight that I would want. Are you saying that I would be better off having a good solid few hours of 100% pre-noon sun, then the remaining hours under dappled sunlight? Or are you saying I would be better off keeping them under constant dappled sunlight all day long? Because both of those options are easily accessible to me. Obviously, like you said, since the tubs will be smallish, direct sun could heat that water up in no time, so yeah, keeping it under shade or dappled sun during the hot hours would be a good idea.

I'm actually going to Lowe's this weekend to see what I can come up with as far as tubs. I still think pond liners will end up being the best option, but I'll keep my options open. I wouldn't even mind a masonry project, I suppose, if it will end up being cheaper to make concrete ones. I guess I'll soon find out.

Thanks again, guys, and if anyone else would like to chime in I'll be your best friend. Anyone who provides me with beneficial info for this project will get put on my RAOK list, as I expect to eventually have more plants than I will need, and plan on giving excesses away here and on the other forums.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

If you have raccoons, they WILL eventually get into what you've got going there, even if only to investigate. Some means of protecting everything will be necessary. I'd also look into preventing any of the plants from getting _out_, especially since you live in a warm area.

There are some really good suggestions here, especially with regard to the mosquito-eating fish. They would probably negate the need for a pump.


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## marrow (Mar 4, 2007)

Use stock tanks instead of plastic storage containers. Plastic storage containers are not typically uv stable and they crack easily.


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## Church (Sep 16, 2007)

Oh I was going to use those black pond liners, not storage containers. Aren't the pond liners UV-proof?


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Pond liners are pretty good that way. (UV)
Stock water tanks are even better, and are designed to not be sunk in the soil for support, but I would still sink these for the insulation. I doubt you could build them cheaper from concrete or concrete blocks. Maybe cheaper to dig the whole system into the ground and use flexible pond liner. Pre-formed ponds are not usually too deep. If you will be growing some of the larger plants you might want to look into stock watering tanks for some of the containers, to get the depth. 

Tubs full of plants will have areas where the water is not moving so much, and mosquitoes will find these areas. 

I like the rain barrel-auto top off idea. Pond liners can be plumbed together with bulkhead fittings and flex tubing. Even the fish can go from one tub to the other! Use a level to be sure all the ponds have water at the same height, or else build them together into a series of steps so water flows downhill from one to another, then pump it back uphill. Either method works. A pump can just as easily pump the water around in a circle with all the components level. If the power quits (say, armadillos eat the wiring) you would not risk all the water draining out of the system if all the ponds were the same elevation. 

Lighting and sun and heat: depends on the plants you are growing. Crypts in general come from forest streams with dappled light all day, rarely or never full direct light. Other aquatic plants do get more direct light during at least part of the day. Time of year might make a difference, too. In the cooler months more direct sun will keep the water warmer. 

Using a pump and in line heater might work, if you are just looking at a few degrees. It is very wasteful of electricity, though. The heat leaves the ponds very fast. I would still work with a greenhouse idea for the winter. Then, whatever heat the sun can provide through the greenhouse effect will be a great benefit. 
You could also run a solar water heater. Gotta have some careful controls, though. Can't have it overheating.


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## Church (Sep 16, 2007)

Wow, thank you very much, Diana! That was exactly the kind of info I was looking to get. I appreciate you pointing out the "over-the-long-haul" kind of advice that I wouldn't have thought about til it happened.

I think I've been convinced that I will need to make sure the water recirculates. I'm not going to great extents to filter the water or anything, so I'm going to make this basically just a continuous river, all at the same level to avoid the overflow situation. The plants will be providing me with all the biological filtration I'll need, and I'll work with that.

Would anyone have any suggestions on a substrate to use? Should I just go with whatever cheapest aquatic soil I can find at the hardware store?


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Hi, Church!!

I think I'd go the El Natural route on this and use an organic potting soil mixed with some cheapie topsoil (or soil from your yard) , about a 70/30 mix (don't have to have that ratio, I'm just thinking CO2 from decomposing OM mixed with minerals in soil) and cap it with an inch of whatever you like (gravel, turface, aquasoil, sand).

This inspires me (except for the fact that I'm renting a house right now) to do something similar for an experiment station (to test "new" plants). You know, you could be completely natural with this. Light from the sun, filtration from plants, ferts from soil and fish waste (just like NPT), and if you need heat in winter, just throw up a small greenhouse structure over it (easy to do DIY on these) and BLAZAM, a large scale NPT.


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