# Will excel kill my BBA?



## Quaid (Aug 30, 2006)

I have a pretty heavy infestation of BBA. It's been present in my tank for about a year now, and I usually remove leaves when it gets out of hand. However, it is now growing on my eheim spray bar, most of my plants, and it completely covers my bogwood. My moponi is literally a black fuzzy stump. I am thinking my only option is to tear down and bleach everything. Do I have alternatives? Can I use the high doses of excel like is recommended for staghorn?

NOTE: My BBA started back when I was using DIY CO2. I am now using pressurized at ~20-25ppm CO2. I have 151 CF watts over 65g, and I dose ferts according to EI complete with 50% water change weekly. I also have 2 SAE's now that are slowely munching away at the BBA.

I was hoping that getting all the puzzle pieces right would let the plants out compete the algae and it would go away that way. Turns out the algae is just as happy with the new setup as the plants are


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## Quaid (Aug 30, 2006)

I've been reading about using copper sulfate, but this option seems a wee bit extreme. I'm not sure where I would put my fish during the treatment.

It does seem like the most complete and thorough elimination of the algae though...I wouldn't be able to miss any like if I was doing manual removal again.

Any thoughts?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

It is rarely a good idea to try to poison algae to kill it. Copper sulfate is poisonous to algae, plants and fish. You could try hydrogen peroxide. Load a syringe with it and squirt it on the algae in the tank. Just do a bit each day so you don't kill the fish with it. What I have done is remove all of the plants and hardscape and equipment, and use a 1 in 20 bleach/water solution to dip them in to kill the algae - it turns white when it dies. This works on anubias and java fern, but is pretty hard on other plants, in my experience.

Before doing this, be sure you have the CO2 bubble rate as high as you can without making the fish unhappy, or the BBA will come right back when you set up the tank again. Any plants you can't dip you have to prune off all of the BBA - the leaves infested will die anyway.

Now, my dirty little secret is: I have the same problem for now. But, until my GDA finishes its life cycle I won't try to get rid of the BBA, I just keep on jacking up the CO2 a little every day. No effect on the fish yet.

Let's look at this as a golden opportunity to learn what GDA, BBA, BGA, GSA, etc mean.


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

Excel is particularly effective with the red (look black or grey) algea.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

To avoid OD'ing the whole tank with Excel, you can either:

1 - During a water change when the water level is low, put the excel directly on BBA affected areas with a syringe. I have used this method very effectively on hardscape items like driftwood. The concentrated Excel causes the BBA to turn red and die off pretty fast. 

2 - Remove the effected plants/hardscape and dip into full strength Excel then put it back into the tank. I have had success with this on Anubias barteri 'nana' to date but have not tried it on onther plants. If you decide to give it a try on something other than an Anubias species, try it on one stem to see how the plant reacts. Be warned that some plants like Riccia, Anachris, and Hornwort may not do well with Excel usage or overdosage.

Please let us know if you give either of these methods a try.


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

I have done the following a multitude of times with zero problems: Dose double the initial dose for your tank size after a WC. Skip the daily dosing. 3days later, repeat the double dosing. Do your weekly WC on day 7)


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## Quaid (Aug 30, 2006)

I am going to get some Excel and give it a try. I think I'll try the bath and direct application, using only the ammounts for the double dose. Then I'll do the double dose again 3 days later. Then I'll repeat the following week just to be sure!  I wish I could get a good picture of my bogwood, it's kind of funny to see how much algae is on it.

[EDIT] oh and thanks for all the quick replies!


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

you will know the excel is working on BBA when a day or so after dosing, it starts turning from black to red.


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## fish_4_all (Jun 3, 2006)

Before trying excel, I would increase your CO2 to 30-40ppm, or to a point somewhere in there that doesn't effect the fish but does control the algae. When I keep up wth water changes and keep levels above 30ppm regularly with DIY, my BBA seems to stagnate, when I miss a water change or leave the lights on for 16 hours instead of 10-12 it comes back with a vengance. I also got it the worst I have ever had it when I changed the wrong bottle out twice and had a dead bottle that caused my levels to fluctuate and drop really bad in a week. 

That being said, if increasing your CO2 doesn't work, let me know how excel works for you because I am about to start dosing it myself when I can scrounge enough money to order it.


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## Quaid (Aug 30, 2006)

Fish 4 All, thanks for your imput but CO2 fluctuations and levels are not my problem I assure you. I am using pressurized in a powered defuser, maintaining high levels above 20ppm *always*.

Do not be under the impression that CO2 gets rid of algae, it does not.

My order of Excel is expected tomorrow.:bump:


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Gomer said:


> I have done the following a multitude of times with zero problems: Dose double the initial dose for your tank size after a WC. Skip the daily dosing. 3days later, repeat the double dosing. Do your weekly WC on day 7)


By "double dosing" for the initial dose, do you mean double what Seachem says to us as an initial dose? Or double the Seachem dose for daily use?


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## fish_4_all (Jun 3, 2006)

Well all I know is when my levels in my tanks drop belows 30ppm for any amount of time since I started dosing EI I get massive outbreaks of BBA and string algae. 

AS for CO2 killing algae, probably not but the basis of EI dosing assumes levels of CO2 above 30ppm and dosing nutrients higher than what your plants can use. If you eliminate your other nutrients as possible causes then it has to come down to CO2. Do I believe it, not completely, but this is straight from the guy who wrote the Barr report so it must mean something. And trust me, I am just tired of hearing my CO2 levels are too low but it works so who am I to argue. 

Just my two scents anyway but if excel kills it and it is a replacement for CO2 then there must be something about high carbon levels that algae just doesn't like.


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

Keep in mind that CO2 is not an algeacide! The observation that CO2 "kills" BBA is not correct. Higher levels of CO2 (in well lit well planted tanks) help the *plants* grow better. Healthier plants equal a diminished propensity for algae to grow and spread...

Existing BBA will still need to be killed/removed. That's where the Excel overdose comes in. Once you kill/remove existing BBA, correct CO2 (and other nutrient) levels will keep it from coming back or at least keep it under control.


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## Quaid (Aug 30, 2006)

Excel arrived today. I 'spot dosed' the 65 gallon during a water change, and I just plain double dosed a 15g during a water change. I'll see how it works in one vs the other.


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## Quaid (Aug 30, 2006)

No noticable changes thus far.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Today I scraped off my GDA, trimmed most of the BBA infested leaves, used bleach solution on the anubias and java ferns, tossed most of the a. Reinickii, and as a final step, added 2X the water change dose of Excel. I will repeat this in three or four days. Here's hoping it kills off the last remaining bits of BBA.


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

I'm pretty sure that I remember seeing a comment from Seachem somewhere saying that Excel breaks down pretty rapidly once it's in the tank.

Therefore I'd assume that daily dosing (at two or three times the *daily* dose) is better than a larger dose every three or four days?

Or maybe when used to control/kill algae it doesn't matter?


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Excel breaks down in 24 hours or so. Therefore, I would think that it would be best to wait a few days between heavy dosing. More frequent large doses before the first is completely gone may result in levels toxic to fish/shrimp/snails and plants.

I really wish we knew the concentration of gluteraldehyde in Excel, but since I am interested in it for purely selfish reasons, I don't imagine they would tell me


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Laith said:


> I'm pretty sure that I remember seeing a comment from Seachem somewhere saying that Excel breaks down pretty rapidly once it's in the tank.
> 
> Therefore I'd assume that daily dosing (at two or three times the *daily* dose) is better than a larger dose every three or four days?
> 
> Or maybe when used to control/kill algae it doesn't matter?


We are stuck with determining how best to use Excel as an algae killer all by ourselves. Seachem has never acknowledged that Excel kills algae. They market it solely as a carbon source for plants. Someone with several nearly identical tanks could do all of us in this hobby a very good service by doing some controlled experiments to see what the best algicide use technique is.


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## Quaid (Aug 30, 2006)

When I did my water change last night, much of the BBA came right off from what it was stuck to just from the water suction. It never went red, as was expected. There is still considerable BBA left, but I'd say half of it is gone.

I repeated the treatment after the water change, and I noticed that my val is not happy about the situation at all. Many dead and dying blades/leaves.


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## Purrbox (Jun 1, 2006)

Unfortunately both Vals and Ancharis are sensitive to Excel even when dosed at normal levels. You're almost guarenteed to cause them to melt when overdosing to treat algae. Since you have Vals in the tank you may be better off with a different treatment to remove the existing algae, or if you don't care about them you could proceed as planned.


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## Quaid (Aug 30, 2006)

Vals made it through 2 of these treatments, but at heavy loss. They will grow back.

This treatment killed around 80% of my BBA after two goes at it. I will let my tank recuperate before treating again.


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