# flourish excel initial dose?



## jschall (Apr 13, 2009)

SeaChem said:


> On initial use or after a major (> 40%) water change, use 1 capful (5 mL) for every 40 L (10 gallons*). Thereafter, use 1 capful for every 200 L (50 gallons*) daily or every other day. Dosing may be slowly increased in high-growth aquariums. For smaller dosing, please note that each cap thread is approximately 1 mL. Do not overdose.


That's an initial dose 5 times larger than the daily dose...



SeaChem said:


> But given that Flourish Excel can stay complexed as a carbon source for up to 24 hours before it dissipates, you can dose at any time of the day


If it dissipates in 24 hours, and you're not supposed to overdose, why is the initial dose so huge compared to the daily dose? Should I just start the daily dose, ignoring the initial dose instructions?


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## intothenew (Aug 1, 2008)

I have been in the desert all day without water. I stumble upon a clear cool stream, and immediately gorge myself. I decide to stay right here, only taking sips for the remainder of my stay.


And if you listen real close, you can hear the algae scream.


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## redtheinspector (Apr 5, 2009)

jschall said:


> That's an initial dose 5 times larger than the daily dose...
> 
> If it dissipates in 24 hours, and you're not supposed to overdose, why is the initial dose so huge compared to the daily dose? Should I just start the daily dose, ignoring the initial dose instructions?


I have been dosing daily until I have a C02 system set up. I am using the EI and dosing 100 ml for 60 gallons. I initally followed the 10 ml /10gallons.... but it melted my plants when daily dosing as well. So I only daily dose now and all is well


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Nice post intothenew [smilie=b:

Excel uses fancily-worded, watered down glutaral dehyde, though I'm not sure of the precise concentration. I've been safely dosing 8ml into 65L (actual volume of water column) a day without any problems. It will melt some kinds of plants, especially bladderworts and vallisenaria. The suggested dosage on the package is for very low light aquariums, just like the rest of seachem's ferts.

-Philosophos


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Flourish Excel is a polymerized isomer of glutaraldehyde known as polycycloglutaracetal. It is NOT watered down glutaraldehyde.

intothenew, I love your analogy.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Newt said:


> Flourish Excel is a polymerized isomer of glutaraldehyde known as polycycloglutaracetal. It is NOT watered down glutaraldehyde.
> 
> intothenew, I love your analogy.


What he said.

...And intothenew's analolgy is spot-on.

In regards to Excel melting certain plants, if it is used as directed, it will not melt those plants, IME. I've had fissidens, vals, subwassertang all in a tank using daily excel with no problems (dosing according to instructions).

-Dave


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

My vals used to melt but since I began adding GH booster to my very soft water it has not bothered them in the least bit.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Newt said:


> Flourish Excel is a polymerized isomer of glutaraldehyde known as polycycloglutaracetal. It is NOT watered down glutaraldehyde.
> 
> intothenew, I love your analogy.


I wonder why SeaChem isn't listing it on the MSDS for their product, then. They list its main ingredient as, "aqueous solution of glutaraldehyde"

This wouldn't be the first time SeaChem has gotten fancy with their names, or a little dishonest with their claims. Head on over to theKrib for a debate regarding SeaChem's iron gluconate, featuring Greg Morin (head of seachem) and Paul Sears (Control of Algae in the Planted Aquarium, PMDD).

-Philosophos


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

An isomer is any two or more substances that are composed of the same elements in the same proportions but differ in properties because of differences in the arrangement of atoms.

A polymer is a large molecule composed of repeating structural units typically connected by covalent chemical bonds.

Perhaps water is the other substance; however, there could be more.

Seachem, as like most other companies, has clever marketing wording. They do have good products IMO. Also, a word of caution: There is a group of people being sued by Pets Warehouse for remarks posted on forums such as this. See here: http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/

I've known of The Krib for years and this was the first site I went to to read about planted tanks.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

I have a hard time figuring out where it differs from glutaraldehyde in function, and SeaChem's silence isn't so much an admission of guilt for me, but a point to lack confidence on. The lack of a capacity to comment may not indicate their guilt, but I've never seen a reason to remain silent on any relevant issue among reasonable people. It makes me wonder about ulterior motives; mostly "trade secrets" and other practices I find distasteful. 

Everything I've been reading on glutarldehyde in reference to being used as a carbon source, increasing hatch rates, sensitivity among inverts and use as an algaecide seems to be in line with the effects of SeaChem's product. Again, it'd be nice if SeaChem would speak up. I would be using their product either way, since the risks of working with pure glutaraldehyde doesn't exactly tickle me. Safety glasses and rubber gloves are something I like to dawn AFTER breakfast :icon_hang

As for the petswarehouse.com issue, I've never been one to tolerate people intimidating others in to silence. I don't much care if they use the justice system to do it, and I've never smiled on those who suppress criticism of companies such as this one out of their own fear of being reprimanded. To paraphrase my possibly long-winded ideas on the topic, I will envoke Godwin's law and use a Nazi metaphor. I think we would all be a little miffed if we were expected to avoid defaming commentary on the presence of many "bakeries" and "showers" in "government assisted ethnic housing units" between the years of 1939 and 1945

That being said, I don't tend to trash companies arbitrarily. Of any commercial water quality products for aquariums, I use SeaChem's more than any other. Some of it is because of availability, much of it is due to effectiveness. With the freedom to make that endorsement, I would expect criticism to be equally valid of a thing to voice.

-Philosophos


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

My wife is a lawyer and she says its all about HOW you word your criticism so that you cant be sued for libel. Offering an opinion is different than right out accusation.


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## Fishtory (Jan 21, 2009)

*Re:lawsuits and marketing phrases*



Newt said:


> Seachem, as like most other companies, has clever marketing wording. They do have good products IMO. Also, a word of caution: There is a group of people being sued by Pets Warehouse for remarks posted on forums such as this. See here: http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/


I thought the pets warehouse suit started years ago, isn't it over now? What was the outcome?

I'm working on some articles for a major pet-related industry right now, and I'm finding that I'm unable to research most of their ingredients because of this clever marketing wording. I'm calling it word slanting. I suppose the point is to keep competitors from reproducing it, or maybe to keep us from trying to make it ourselves? Anyway, it is downright annoying!


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Accusations are assertions of opinions. I've always held that libel is something hard to accuse some one of if both sides are willing to engage in a public discussion with each other. The justice system has little to do with ethics IMO, so I leave it more as a means to an end than a method of separating right from wrong.

Fishstory, as far as I know, some settled, nobody was convicted and the owner lost a counter-suit. He is/was trying to get money out of google and half a dozen other sites on the same charges too, I believe.

-Philosophos


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## intothenew (Aug 1, 2008)

redtheinspector said:


> I have been dosing daily until I have a C02 system set up. I am using the EI and dosing 100 ml for 60 gallons. I initally followed the 10 ml /10gallons.... but it melted my plants when daily dosing as well. So I only daily dose now and all is well


I have never added excel at that concentration. Even in the heat of battle, and after a slow increase, 1ml/1 gal shows significant stress on everything(including my wallet).

Assuming 60gal in water column, and following Seachems recommendation, that would only be 30 ml initial. Then, 6 ml daily.


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