# BBA help



## Aqua Man (Nov 30, 2005)

Hi all
I have BBA and struggling to get rid of it.
I run pressuerized CO2 24/7,through a external reactor with airstone at night.
KH:4
PH:6.2
NO3:10
PO4: 1
And zero for the rest.
Light's 220 watts over a 250 liter tank,On for about 10.5 hour's a day.
I have no other algae to speak of just BBA.

Thanks in Advance


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

This is my own little trial -- but try extending your lighting period to 12 hours a day. I really don't think plants can take in all they need in 10 hours of lighting. Think about nature: most of the time, anyway, the Summer is when they are growing and flourishing, and days of light are much longer. Again, this is my own theory, but give it a try.


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## Simpte 27 (Jul 16, 2004)

Summer days are longer but the lighting is not as intense. If your bba is spreading, I would say your Co2 is not up to par. I gave up using the co2 chart. I trust my fish and inverts. If they are not gasping, I increase my co2. This alone will not get rid of what you have. You will have to remove infected leaves.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Welcome to APC, Aqua man 

Take a look at our AlgaeFinder ,here you will find what causes BBA and how to get rid of it.


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## Aqua Man (Nov 30, 2005)

thanks again


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

i am having the exact same problem as aqua is, my values are nearly identical to his except my ph is 6.5 and is regulated by a ph controller. the bba i have isnt the normal kind its extremely fine, straight strands about half an inch (1.25cm) and radiates outwards from a point where it attaches to the plants. this stuff doesnt seem to respond to Co2 or anything else for that mater. it just keeps spreading, i have drift wood btw and was thinking that might have something to do with it...


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

CO2. add more trim what is there off everything you can, clean any equipment very well and glass etc.

At some point, you need to ignore the pH/Kh chart if you still have new growth of BBA.

Clean it off first, then change the CO2.
I've notice some folks have more BBA than other that run 24/7, but ,.......many run 24/7 w/o BBA also.

I disagree with PG, I have done light measurements and 10 hours is plenty of light time.

Adding more light wll help the algae, not hurt in any CO2 related case.
You can also use a double dose 7 days in a row of Excel. Some have found that to help speed the BBA death.

Still, I would suggest you do the CO2 first, then go to this after, and then you can also add some SAE's for herbivores also.

That would hit it the best way for an all out assault.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

plantbrain, do you think the bba might be growing because of decaying driftwood? i am not 100% sure but signs such as location of the bba point to the wood being the problem. it seems like the bba only grows on the java fern and anubias that covers the drift wood. i have done the nail test and it isnt spongy, though if i scratch at it bits will get caught under my nails... sooo i dont know. what say you?

http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/ga/ul/3261062181/Algae_Anubias.jpg
actually here is a picture of the bba that i have in my tank. i dont know if it is in fact called bba. just ignore the thread algae in the picture. the algae i am talking about is near the edge of the leaf. is this indeed bba or something more sinister?


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

That's BBA.

And that tank has a slight algae problem...


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## yme (Jul 25, 2005)

@plantbrain: is the solution really based on increasing the CO2 concentration? Is it really too low? I can't imagine that an CO2 concentration of more than 70 mg/l is not enough. Aren't other parameters involved in this case? 

greetz,

yme


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## Simpte 27 (Jul 16, 2004)

We (people in the SW Ohio area) have found that a lot of our Kh is non carbonate related). In short, we have a good Kh in theory but not the required carbonates needed which gives us false readings. I (and I believe Matt also) have added baking soda to our water.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

yup, my kh is all baking soda. kh out of tap is 0


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

yme said:


> @plantbrain: is the solution really based on increasing the CO2 concentration? Is it really too low? I can't imagine that an CO2 concentration of more than 70 mg/l is not enough. Aren't other parameters involved in this case?
> 
> greetz,
> 
> yme


Well, some have tried limiting NO3, PO4 etc, nothng worked on BBA, CO2 was the only environmetal parameter.

We were pretty careful.
And since then, perhaps 8 years ago, other have confirmed it time and time again. A number of German references from hobbyits also confirmed this independently of us here n the USA.

The real problem is that folks assume the test and the method is always accurate for CO2 and for the pH/KH measurements.

Most folks typically measure only the pH and assume the KH is always the same thereafter. Bad idea.

You can also get more accuracy fro the KH test kit by using 2x the sample water volume and then 1 drop = 0.5degrees KH.

I use and suggest folks to use the pH/KHmethod to get close, then keep adding CO2 slowly till the plnt response is no longer positive. 
You need to be around to do this so you do no harm the fish.
You also need some surface current, the loss of CO2 is a minor issue for some moderate to slight surface movement and this save fish.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Jason Baliban (Feb 21, 2005)

Iterestingly,

I find i will see BBA start to grow when a leaf is in the direct flow of the filter. I used to have my spray bar pointing at a 45 degree angle down into the tank. I started seeing BBA growing on the edges of blyxa that was noticably moving from the filter current. I have also seen this happen in another tank when stems grow up into the output of a fluval.

This is puzzling to me. I would assume that the water coming from the filter is the most co2 rich as there is an inline reactor. Perhaps it is the water itself. I am not that consistant with cleaning my filter. Perhaps there is some ammonia that comes from the filter. This is a stretch i think though.

I remedied the BBA by making sure that no plants are in the path of strong filter current.

Has anyone seen this happen? Any thoughts why this is true for me?

Thanks

jB


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## Pieter (Jul 3, 2005)

I see exactly the same thing happening in my tank.
At first the BBA only grew on the leaves of the cyperus helferi that are waving in the current of the filter. I have increased C02 even to the point of loosing some shrimp and fish.
The problem is to keep the CO2 at the same consistent level all the time. I am using a diffuser and it gets clogged up all the time.
What do you guys recommend to clean the disk of the diffuser?

Pieter


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

if co2 fluctuations truly cause bba outbreaks, then will bba become worse if i lower the ph from 6.5 to say... 6.0 over night? or does bba only grow more when co2 concentrations are lessened quickly?


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## Pieter (Jul 3, 2005)

The difference between day and night doesn't matter, as long as you keep CO2 at a high enough level during the day. That is what I think.

Pieter


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## yme (Jul 25, 2005)

hmmm, very interesting! If increasing the CO2 concentration is the only thing that helps, one should indeed increasethe concentration! that makes sense!!!

(and of course the KH should be measured carefully and a close look at the fish should be kept)

Is it known why BBA doesn´t like high CO2 concentations?

Thanks for the answers!

greetz,

yme


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

Pieter said:


> I see exactly the same thing happening in my tank.
> At first the BBA only grew on the leaves of the cyperus helferi that are waving in the current of the filter. I have increased C02 even to the point of loosing some shrimp and fish.
> The problem is to keep the CO2 at the same consistent level all the time. I am using a diffuser and it gets clogged up all the time.
> What do you guys recommend to clean the disk of the diffuser?
> ...


Bleach it once a week, variations in the CO2 is a great way to get BBA, which is why you got BBA and had more trouble with fish gasping.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

I know many of you folks have trouble believing the BBA is from CO2 issues, but variations in BBA, not just low levels can cause issues.

If you use thinbgs and methods such as Disc, and DIY, you often have some of the worst BBA related issues.

If you maintain these items, then you will greatly reduce BBA.

Once the BBA is there, adding good CO2 again does not kill it unless you wait for a long time.

I trim the BBA off asap and add more CO2.

Works every time.
Some double dose the Excel while doing this as an added measure.

Regards, 
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com


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## sayembara (Dec 13, 2005)

Add more fishes to 'help' adding more CO2.


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## dkfennell (Apr 19, 2005)

My solenoid turns my CO2 off at night, and I aerate the tank with 2 fairly strong air streams for a couple of hours in the night (to dissipate the CO2 from respiration). Is this a mistake? I too have recently gotten an annoying bba invasion which started on wood (where I didn't mind it). I can't keep up with cutting the affected leaves off.


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## soniacbt (Feb 15, 2005)

That's exactly the problem I have too. The plants in the path of the filter output where the CO2 comes from are the ones worst hit with the BBA. I have up-ed the CO2, but it keeps coming back. My CO2 is on a timer in sync with my lighting, so guess I can't get away with CO2 fluactuations. Will try to shift the plants around away from the CO2 'stream'.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

CO2 and BBA...

In one of my tanks I have the filter outtake shooting straight down. Right under it I have a Dupla CO2 diffuser that is running pretty fast - 1 bps (because the tank is 180 gals). The CO2 bubbles raise about a foot, then get hit by the filter outflow coming from above and are pushed toward the bottom. Some make it back to the surface. A "CO2 cloud" of tiny bubbles forms in that corner of the tank. The "cloud" is close to 2 ft high (the height of the tank) and about 1/2 ft. in diameter. I've had the CO2 running like that for 4 months now.

Guess where I have BBA? On the driftwood, on the old plant leaves.. and on the CO2 tubing - where the CO2 and the filter outtake have been forming the "cloud" for 4 months. There has been no variation of the CO2 rate during these 4 months because my big pressurized CO2 bottle didn't run out until 3 days ago. I don't turn the CO2 at night. Basically I have a non-stop, 24/7, "CO2 cloud" in that corner of the tank.

The BBA appeared slowly but surely in the course of the 4 months. I'm inclined to say they spread faster when I wasn't that consistent with the water changes. They could never attach themselves as well as super healthy BBA does. It's rather easy to remove them, but they are there and not going away by themselves.

To me the occurrence of BBA is a question of consistent maintenance, not just CO2 deficiency.

--Nikolay


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## Freemann (Mar 19, 2004)

I can confirm as well that BBA algae that appeared in my tank had nothing to do with the amount of CO2 in the tank. The CO2 is compressed controlled by a ph controller and according to the ph, I have around 70 ppm CO2, plants pearl like crazy by the way and there is still bba around, I also have a strong feeling that it has to do with maintenance but also in some way with high level of ferts 28 ppm NO3 and 2 ppm PO4 and all the rest were there at the peak of BBA growth, I feel that high ferts make the tank dirty fast somehow and in this way induce algaes like (BBA, GW, BGA), maybe the effect is not even direct with the amounts of ferts maybe it is a toxicity that is induced in the plants from all this ferts that slows them down and this kind of algae appear, once the ferts were lowered and lots of mulm was cleaned from the bottom this types of algae have receded. Also plants like ferns and anubias grow much better this way. I talk of a tank with 4.1 w/gal MH, 10 hours per day (lots of light).
Freeman


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Don't trust the KH/pH chart! I absolutely agree with Tom on this one. I've been looking at the chemistry behind the numbers and it only works in water with no other buffering system than carbonate and no other acid than that produced by the CO2. Since neither of these things is true in a real aquarium, the chart is a ballpark approximation at best. Depending on your water it can easily overestimate the CO2 present by a factor of 3 or more. Ask me why I've been looking at this 

A better number to report is the difference between the aquarium pH and a sample that has been allowed to degas (left open to the air for 24-48 hours). You'll find that you're not really depressing your pH as much as the chart says you were, consequently, your actual ppm CO2 levels are much lower than you thought. There is WIDE variability in the accuracy of KH kits too, despite the test being a straightforward acid titration.

All of these factors put together = no clue what you're really measuring. Add CO2 'til the fish don't like it and back off 0.2 or 0.3 pH units. Sometimes it's a ton more than you thought.

But maybe you shouldn't listen to me - I've got my own issues with BBA right now. I can attest to the fact that once a leaf is hammered it's got to go - not even a bleach dip will salvage it once BBA has taken hold. I'm almost ready to tear everything down and start over. I messed up my ferts badly for over a month and the BBA REALLY got a foothold. I spend about 2-3 hours a week chopping up my plants, looking to save the few clean parts. The BBA keeps on spreading. I hate this @[email protected]#**$#$ stuff!


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

niko said:


> CO2 and BBA...
> 
> In one of my tanks I have the filter outtake shooting straight down. Right under it I have a Dupla CO2 diffuser that is running pretty fast - 1 bps (because the tank is 180 gals).
> --Nikolay


1 bps in a 180 is nothing. I have about 3 bps in my 46 gallon with only minimal surface agitation. The bubbles go into my canister filter and don't come out so I assume they're dissolving pretty well. Maybe I'm missing something here, but 1 bps in a 180 sounds pretty slow (unless they're mighty big bubbles).


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## sayembara (Dec 13, 2005)

I added more fishes and sprinkled a little salt and resulted in slower groth of BBA, in fact the coverage area became less. Not so conclusive yet but I will try to update if the BBA is totally gone. Just to applied the 'remedies' offerred by the members.


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## Freemann (Mar 19, 2004)

Well in Nikos case 1bs CO2 sounds to me as well too little but maybe his KH is too low, still in my case there is tons of CO2 and I am sure of it.
Freemann


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

sayembara said:


> I added more fishes and sprinkled a little salt and resulted in slower groth of BBA, in fact the coverage area became less. Not so conclusive yet but I will try to update if the BBA is totally gone. Just to applied the 'remedies' offered by the members.


not good to add salt to your aquarium. plants will be stunted as salt is not healthy for them.

first i would like to say that bba is a F(*&(*&(()@ing pest and i hate its very essence. BUT! i do believe co2 has a huge impact on its growth. also stability as Tom said. the problem that is deceiving about bba is that once it has gained a foot hold in the tank it lingers around for a very long time before dying off on its own. the higher co2/stability just seems to stop any new growth. the old growth must be removed or you may be looking at several months to even a whole year before the old bba dies.

my tank is finally coming around btw. i found that stability of all the nutrients was the final key to killing it off (that and raising the co2 by about 15ppm)


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

sayembara said:


> I added more fishes and sprinkled a little salt and resulted in slower groth of BBA, in fact the coverage area became less. Not so conclusive yet but I will try to update if the BBA is totally gone. Just to applied the 'remedies' offerred by the members.


I had a bad outbreak of BBA in one of my tanks and also a ich outbreak. So I treated the ich with the heat/salt method and after the treatment I had no more BBA.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Zapins said:


> not good to add salt to your aquarium. plants will be stunted as salt is not healthy for them.


Not if used in small amounts over short periods of time. There is plants that do good in brackish water setups.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

yes that is true, but in general the plants we use in our aquarium do not take kindly to salt. some are obviously more resistant and others need salt, but it is not a good idea to go adding salt to your tanks, especially not in the quantities needed to kill bba.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Zapins...I used the recommended dosage of salt (1 tablespoon per 5 gallons of water) to treat ich for the 21 days and that all that it took to kill the BBA.


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## robitreef (Jan 4, 2005)

I have recently treated my tank for an ich outbreak, but I also did the heat/salt method (along with Quick Cure) and I didn't notice any difference in the BBA on my driftwood. As for salt, I have Java fern and Crypts and they don't mind the salt (1 tblsp per 5 gallons). I scrubbed my driftwood and am double-dosing Exce, so I hope it works.l


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