# Low hardness but high pH



## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

I checked my 5.5g el natural tank today using a dip strip test. I usualy use a liquid kit for nitrates but I had some strips. All the nitragen readings were zeroed out like normal. The pH of the tap water here is already over 8 but acording to the dip strip the alkolinity is sky high as well. The hardness is very low on the strip though. Should I be worried? Are the strip tests good for hardness?

I had always assumed that any plant sympoms were due to snails or normal leaf aging. Are any of the following consistant with to low hardness? I am worried that the plants will be starved for Ca and Mg. Most of the plants are doing well but older anubus leaves are yellowed with green vains. The new leaves are dark green though. My wisteria gets holes in some leaves which eventualy die after a few weeks. The baby tears also have small holes in older leaves as well.

I have crushed coral sprinkled as the bottom layer of the substrate from my initial setup. Should I add some more or would I risk raising the pH even higher than it already is? The tank does happen to be in a laboratory. Should I just dose some MgSO4 and CaCl? I don't want to get into a dosing regumine and I'm guessing the SO4 and the Cl aren't great to have around.

Anyway,... Here is a pic of my 5.5g


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Jark,

First of all, very nice looking 5.5 gallon! Here in Seattle I have very soft water with dKH=2.0 and dGH=6.0 and a PH=7.8. I find that the soft water definitely causes me problems with deficiencies. Here is a good link for diagnosing deficiencies.

Typically I add a little NaHCO3 (Baking Soda) to raise the KH in my tank and CaCl, MgSO4, and Seachem Equibrium to raise the GH.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

If all the nitrogen is pretty much always zero, then the plants may be suffering from nitrogen deficiency. NO3 should always show as some value, indicating that there is some available. I tend to keep the NO3 between 5-20 ppm. 

GH measures Ca and Mg, and does not affect pH. All plants need Ca and Mg, though in different amounts. Most average aquarium plants will not do well if the GH is under about 3 German degrees of hardness. Coral and limestone break down slowly in an aquarium, and might not be making these nutrients available to the plants as fast as the plants could use them. Perhaps a supplement would help. 
Tap water that is low in Ca and Mg is also usually low in other minerals. I know that holes in the leaves are often due to potassium deficiency. 

KH is carbonates. This is one of the common buffers in an aquarium that will keep the pH high. Some plants can use carbonates as a source of carbon, but carbonate is not required the way Ca or Mg is. 

In tanks where I want to alter these I use products that raise both, to keep them more or less about the same value. My tap water tests about 4-5 degrees of GH and KH, but I still have to supplement K and Fe.


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## goldier (Feb 13, 2010)

Older leaves yellowing out is normal. While the indication shows that the water is soft, the plants can still use Ca, Mg and other nutrients from the substrate so they would be Okay for a while until the substrate can no longer provide sufficient nutrients. I would not use coral for the reason Diana mentioned, but also because at high water pH, coral does not want to dissolve at all to help raise GH. CaCl is a good choice for high pH water.

Most test kits do not test for Mg, unfortunately. So I usually caution to add less than I would need to be safe. I always feel the need to know how much Mg in my water before adding some, maybe I’ll break down and buy the kit, lol.

In a planted tank with low fish load, plant photosynthesis can alter pH daily, and at its peak, where very little or none CO2 is available, the water pH rises considerably. And if your water pH is already at 8, a reading of 9 or higher during the peak photosynthesis period can be expected. How come I see no fish in that pretty aquarium, were they in hiding?

Peat moss can help lower pH. I wonder if anyone has tried to use it. A recommendation I read was to run water over a peat filter. Although I think the alternative may be to take handful of the dried peat moss and wrap it in a piece of cloth tied with a rubber band at the end, and submerge the ball in the aquarium for a day or so.


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

I initially set the tank up with tap water but have been topping off with RO water to avoid buildup of minerals. I think I may stop that. I'm going to look into getting Seachem Equibrium.

I am thinking dose Mg, and Ca. Then follow top-offs with Seachem Equibrium.

As far as bioload I have a betta and a lot of rams-horn snails. I feed that betta generously and through in partial algae pellets for the snails sometimes. Should I be overfeeding more? Any suggestions an other tankmates? Or should I just pull out the hornswort? My guess is that the hornswort and silvinia are eating up all my Nitrogen.

Here is a picture of my betta. He was hiding to the far left of the other picture. 









I also noticed some green spot algae today. Should I add some PO4 or will overfeeding get the PO4 up. (If that is what caused the spot). I did have the shades open the other day. The tank may have gotten a good 2 hour sun blast. Would that be enough to trigger spot?


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

Thanks for all the help. 

I dosed .7g MgSO4 .5g CaCl and .005g KH3PO4. 

I hope this helps some. At least the snails will love the Ca.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Seachem Equilibrium is Ca, Mg, K and a few other plant nutrients. This will raise the GH and not alter the pH. 

I use peat moss to soften the water and add tannins for certain fish. The Betta may like it. 
Put peat moss in a nylon stocking. Put this in the filter. Replace as needed, perhaps every month or two. 
I also pre-treat some water with peat moss.


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## goldier (Feb 13, 2010)

Handsome betta! I used to raise betta during my teenage years, and some of them were quite aggressive, they even flared and spread full plumage at my pointing finger at them 

Overfeeding him may cause more problem with constipation. You probably can add a few neon tetras if that betta boy can tolerate some company. If the fish load is not enough to feed the plants, fert the substrate once in a while wouldn’t hurt.


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

I have started feeding the snails more in hopes of boosting bioload. A piece of algae wafer usualy draws a horde of snails. Any suggestions on substrate ferts?


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## goldier (Feb 13, 2010)

Tablets or sticks sold as aquarium plant ferts from Seachem, Tetra, etc. would be safe.


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

goldier said:


> Peat moss can help lower pH. I wonder if anyone has tried to use it. A recommendation I read was to run water over a peat filter. Although I think the alternative may be to take handful of the dried peat moss and wrap it in a piece of cloth tied with a rubber band at the end, and submerge the ball in the aquarium for a day or so.


Yes, I've used peat moss to lower pH. Its not an instantaneous solution, but it is effective to soften the water, and bring the pH down a bit.

I used long strand sphagnum moss, as the ground peat more commonly used in potting mixes would be more difficult to restrain in a media bag. I put a handful in a filter bag of my HOB filter, so I still had the mechanical filtration and water movement over the peat moss.

I was just trying to fix a huge water fluctuation (will soon be nearly a full year of water main "repairs" in my town) where I was setting up a tank the very weekend the water started coming out with both a GH and KH of 12+ (the upper limit of my test kit). Plants were in, tank was filled, and THEN I tested.... hyperventilated... tested again... and finally tested the tap water (Aha! ugh). So.... the peat did its job, ever so slowly, but it REALLY stained the water tea-brown. It was a way to get some tannins in there, and possibly some DOC into a new system. But, it severely cut down on the amount of light getting to the plants. As soon as the tap water was back into a "normal" range, I swapped it out over several water changes so I could see into the tank again.

Peat works, but I haven't been inclined to use that method again. 
-Jane


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

Also, goldier has a good point about pH swings throughout the day as the plants use up the CO2. What time of day did you do your tests? I'm not wild about the dip strip tests, I've only used those as an indicator that something was out of line and warranted getting out the reagent tests. 

Try getting a set of readings throughout the day - early AM, mid-day, and an hour before lights out. This might show you the overall trend, rather than the momentary snapshot. 

Also, if its just the Anubias that is showing yellowing (and the oldest leaves will do that, as goldier said) then supplementing the substrate with fertilizers won't be helping much, as that plant isn't rooted in the substrate. 

I've often had difficulty with anubias and java ferns in my El Natural setups. If everything else it going well, they just can't seem to compete. 

Your other plants look like they're growing well, and your Betta certainly looks content and lovely!

With an El Natural setup, the most common deficiency is usually potassium, which will run out in time, especially as you trim out plant growth. Pinholes in the fastest growing plants is the common symptom of a K+ shortage.

Sure, shore up your hardness a bit, but do see how the pH varies over the course of the day.

-Jane


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

I dosed a gram of KCl to get the K+ up there. Lets see if that helps the wisteria and baby tears. 

My java ferns are doing great. When I first set up the tank they put out allot of plantlets. They have been increasing in size sense then but not too many new ones. Lets hope they keep going long term. I guess after everything else took off there haven't been much dramatic expantion.

My anubus just started a new leaf yesterday !!


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## goldier (Feb 13, 2010)

Jane in Upton said:


> ...but it REALLY stained the water tea-brown.
> -Jane


Hah, Jane, you saw that too. I remember the color vividly just like yesterday. I took the water to tea a few times. Although after a few weekly water changes all was clear. In a NPT with no or infrequent water change, the tea brown would persist for a while I guess.


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

I know the tea color too well already. My 37 el natural tank ( work in progress) is so dark I am worryied about getting light to the bottom. The soil is still leaching tannins. My 55 no plant tank is just now clearing up after a bunch of nice branched driftwood. I don't know if I want to brown out the 5.5. I think the pH will be fine for now. I got to work after light came on so I haven't gotten an chance to test the pH early.


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