# question about substrate



## tetramoon13 (Jul 16, 2006)

Hi all, I will be planting my 10 and 5 gal. tanks soon, and I was wondering about substrate. I currently just have about an inch and a half of regular gravel, with pieces varying between 5 and 12 mm. I have read that some aquarists use a mixture of gravel and flourite. I am not sure if I should use peat, as my ph is at a stable level, and wouldn't that lower the kh as well? I have been advised to put some crushed coral in the filter to raise these values, but have not done so yet, as I have neon tetras, which prefer slightly acidic water. I would like to provide a dark substrate for the neons, so if anyone has advice, I would appreciate it. Some of the plants I am considering are anacharis, dwarf hairgrass, micro sword, apogoneton, java moss, java fern, riccia. 

I have 2wpg fluorescent lighting, HOB filter, and the current readings are:
ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 12, gh 75ppm, kh 20-30 ppm, ph 7.0. These values have been consistent since the tank has cycled, except for the kh which was about 80ppm in the beginning. I see that gh and kh are usually measured in degrees, and I have strips for this (everything else I have tube kits) which measures in ppm. Does anyone have a conversion table? And should the HOB filter be ok, if I keep the water level above the outflow? I am not planning on using Co2 at this time, I am hoping I can get away with just using some Flourish excel.

Lots of questions, and more to come, 
thanks in advance
Chris


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## joephys (May 9, 2006)

12mm is pretty big rocks to be growing plants in. In my opinion, those special stubstrates are a nice extra if you want to pay for them, but personally I am happy with small grain gravel. As far as your water params, don't worry about them too much, although your kH is pretty low, so a little bit of crushed coral might be ok. Since your not using CO2, I wouldn't worry about it too much. The fish really don't care all that much as long as things are extreem. I have never had anacharis myself, but I have heard that excell tends to kill it. Rotala is similar looking and should do okay with that light. Again, since your not using CO2, Hob filters are fine. I am using CO2 with an HOB filter and I am not having too many issues with it. I would get the liquid test kits to test the gH and kH, you might be supprised how different they are. THe conversion is 1 deg is about 17.8 ppm.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Chris, 

That's pretty large gravel you have there! Even if you add a finer sized substrate to it, it will just go through in between the existing stuff and you'd probably not see it. So I wouldn't recommend that. IMO, you'll have a hard time keeping the hairgrass down in that.

Peat is typycally recommended for a new tank start up, and not to be used in existing set ups. 

2wpg on 5gal and 10gal tanks are fairly low light. Excel should work well for that. Keep in mind to also add a little phosphates and potassium to your tanks along with some micro nutrients. You should be able to have a fairly slow growing tank which will simplify maintenance in the long run.


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## tetramoon13 (Jul 16, 2006)

I was considering perhaps even the use of sand, I just would not want to use a gravel that is the right size to get impacted in my African Dwarf frog. In the soilmaster setup thread there is a picture posted by rwoehr with black sand in the tank, which I think looks beautiful! It is just the look I'm going for, now that I will be creating a planted aquarium. Are soilmaster and black sand products that can be found at the local LFS, or does it have to be ordered?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

As long as you are not going to have Cory's or other sand "chewers" you can use a black blasting grit, which many LFS carry. But, blasting grit is too sharp edged for Corys to live with. Soilmaster is only available from Lesco and can be ordered on line from their website.


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## tetramoon13 (Jul 16, 2006)

I have been reading good things about eco-complete on the Science of substrates forum, and I think I'm gonna go with that. I have small aquariums, so it won't cost a fortune to use it. I will just do a gradual substrate change so as not to rid my tank of the beneficial bacteria. I can hardly wait to get plants!!

Here are my latest ideas....if anyone can add to this or offer advice.....

for the background: bacopa caroliniana (and something else...)
midddle: cryptocoryne becettii, egeria najas, hygrophilia polysperma, java fern
foreground: cryptocoryne parva, hemianthus micranthemoides, dwarf riccia, 
java moss

I probably won't use all these at once, but these are the ones that seem most compatible with what I am doing right now.


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## tetramoon13 (Jul 16, 2006)

I was wondering......has anyone done this? if all the substrate were to be changed at once, do the planting, take some of the old gravel, put it in small nylon bags and place them around the aquarium long enough for the bacteria to re-establish.....dumb idea? sounds like it could work....(can you tell I'm a little anxious?) 

your thoughts on this......


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## joephys (May 9, 2006)

changing out the gravel gradually would be a big bother in my opinion. I would change it all out at once. If you haven't put new filter media in the filter in a couple of weeks, and leave it in there for a couple of weeks more, you shouldn't have a cycle problem, and if you do, it should be small and short. The nylon bag trick is don't fairly often, and couldn't hurt so its a good way to go.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

I changed out all the gravel on an existing 10gal tank once. It was a tank of guppies. I caught some, some I left while doing it, as I recall, I didn't have any fatalities. It makes a major mess in the tank, but multiple vacs and re-filling, it is doable, imo. Make sure you leave a little mulm in there with your emptying/re-filling/vaccuming. You might want to do a little research regarding your plant placements. Feel free to experiment as you go along with placements over time. Hygro is an incredibly fast grower. C. beckettii will probably outgrow a midground location in a 10, and C. parva is about the slowest growing plant I can think of.


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## tetramoon13 (Jul 16, 2006)

well, I am definitely glad I checked with you guys....I will put the c. beckettii in the background if it's available, or maybe the hygrophilia. thanks.


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## heidisue (May 3, 2006)

I'm glad you are going with the eco complete - it was what I was going to recommend for your tank. The color is beautiful and the size of the particles much easier for planting. I wonder what you did about the substrate replacement - sounded like a big pain in the a$$ to do it with the critters in there...hope it all went well!


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## tetramoon13 (Jul 16, 2006)

so far so good....I replaced half of the old gravel, and will give it a couple more days, it's been in for 2 days already, then I will replace the other half. it really wasn't that hard at all, being a small tank. I love the texture, and it is gonna look so awesome with a bunch of plants! I was too cheap to buy two bags, so I will use just a bit of black gravel on top to make up for the extra depth, the one bag is almost enough. I put flourite in the 5 gal, which I am cycling now, and used the old gravel on top of that to seed the tank, just a half inch layer. I like the look of the larger gravel, but wanted the benefit of flourite for planting, plus, I was worried about the ADF's ingesting the tiny pieces and getting impacted, so the gravel layer serves two purposes.


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## AlexTal (Mar 23, 2006)

With the eco-complete, part of the "completeness" is that it contains a lot of live beneficial bacteria. The bacteria, in essence, jump starts the cycle on your tank. Using your existing HOB filter, you should be able to do a complete substrate change with no worries. You'll have plenty of the beneficial bacteria you need to keep your nitrogen cycle in check.

I would get a big clean bucket, put everyone in there. Clean out all the existing gravel. Put in all the eco-complete. Plant. Fill with water. Replace fish.


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## tetramoon13 (Jul 16, 2006)

Well, I already changed 1/2, and tested the water yesterday, no spikes, so I will switch the other half today. I wish I could plant today, bad selection at LFS. Will have to order plants online. 

I think a little uninvited guest came along with the eco. I noticed a couple minutes after I added it in, I noticed a little silvery looking "bug" but it swam very quickly, in jerky movements. I haven't seen it since, maybe it got sucked up by the filter? Do you think that was a waterflea?


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## AlexTal (Mar 23, 2006)

I don't know what that was! That's weird! Anyone else heard of something like that?


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## tetramoon13 (Jul 16, 2006)

I got excited for a second when I saw it too, almost thought I had some fry in there....but nope


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