# [Wet Thumb Forum]-About to give up



## Carson (Apr 16, 2003)

I've messed with a planted tank for about 4 months now. And all it's been is a big algea mess.
I've tried everything for testing everyday to having so much growth that I've had to prune every few days but nothing will stop the algea.
I've blacked out the tank for 5 days and nothing. Also nearly killed all my plants with a bleach bath but 2 weeks later I'm back were I started. I'm at my witts end and am ready to go back to plastic and little light. 
What it the secret?


----------



## Carson (Apr 16, 2003)

I've messed with a planted tank for about 4 months now. And all it's been is a big algea mess.
I've tried everything for testing everyday to having so much growth that I've had to prune every few days but nothing will stop the algea.
I've blacked out the tank for 5 days and nothing. Also nearly killed all my plants with a bleach bath but 2 weeks later I'm back were I started. I'm at my witts end and am ready to go back to plastic and little light. 
What it the secret?


----------



## perrush (Feb 24, 2003)

You give us little information to star with.

what would I like to know ?

- how much light, how long ?
- NO3, PO4 levels (and everything else you can/will measure
- how much water changes ?? 
- what parameters has your tap water ? (if you chance with tap water)
- CO2 injection ??

start with that and I'll see.

If I can have a aqua with no algae, everyone can.

--
English isn't my native language, but I guess you already noticed that ))
--

Perrush


----------



## Carson (Apr 16, 2003)

OK, I'll tell you what I can.
It's a 55 gallon tank
I have 4, 4 foot tubes over it (2-6500, 1-5500 1-triton) About 3 WPG.
I'm running them 12 hours a day.
I do a 40 % water change 1-2 times a week.I'm running 2 DIY CO2 bottles and CO2 is not very stable I'm sure.
I try to keep my nitrates at about 5-10
I've had bad luck adding phosphuros ( seem to cause lots of algea)

I use sea chem products. 
I had the best luck at adding daily

trace------4ml
iron-------2ml
nitrogen---1.5-2ml
potassium--4ml
flourih----2ml
phosphorus-0ml 

it seemed to slow or stop the tufts of dark green or black algea,but then I had alot of the green velvet algea on everthing (especially the glass.
In trying to adjust things further, it just turned into a big mess.
And even going back to what seemed to work has not given me the same results as the first time.
My tap water contains no phosphorus or nitrates and sees to be OK as far as I can tell.

Any help would be great.

Can non consistant CO2 levels be part of my problem? The plant seem to grow well.


----------



## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

Blind dosing without knowing how much is in the water can cause even more algae. We need to know the concenration/ppm in the water and not how much you dose first.

ie. 
pH level 
NO3 
K 
P 
gH
kH (only to see how much co2 is being added)

72 Gal, 3 WPG PC 10 hour, pressurize co2 /w controller 1 bps, Fluval 404, ph 6.8
A Canadian's Plant Traders website


----------



## Dr.T. (Jul 23, 2003)

It sounds like you might be overdosing, but I don't want to say I'm too sure... most people will dose weekly or at most biweekly. There are some, however, that prove me wrong, but for the most part, I'm guessing too many nutrients are available in the water column.

Jeff (Dr.T.)

Tank info in profile


----------



## Carson (Apr 16, 2003)

I'll try to get a complete run down on my water from the water district. 
Surely that will tell me all the concenrations.
I don't have tests for all that you need.
Thanks


----------



## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Carson,

It sounds like you have tried a lot of different things in 4 months. What's the longest period that you stayed with one method -- without tweaking anything -- and let the tank stabilize?


Roger Miller


----------



## Carson (Apr 16, 2003)

Only about 2 weeks. 
That was when the tufts of black algea seemed to stop and the green velvet algea started to grow.(although I can live with the velvet much better than that nasty looking dark stuff).
I thought it was from stopping the use of phosphorus.
Is it better to dose less often.
I thought that everyday would keep the water more consistant.


----------



## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

Cut you lighting time back to 9-10 hours. stop adding NO3 and FE until you get a constant balance. Then you can use NO3 and Fe along with PHO4 to tweak out you balance. I wouldn't add any FE or PO4 until I have a balanced in CO2 levels. And most of all be patient it will take months to get a balanced after algae has taken over. It took 3 months in my 55gal to get a handle on it. I would think about a pressure tank of CO2 in a tank that big. 

Hawk

Trust But Verify «*»®


----------



## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Carson,

There's nothing wrong with daily dosing. Some fertilizers are best used that way. Your daily doses add up to a lot; about 3 times the amount of Flourish and Flourish iron that I add to my 55 gallon tank every week. I don't use the trace, nitrogen or potassium, so I can't compare. I'm pretty sure that you can cut back.

I don't think that's the biggest problem. It takes more than 2 weeks to see the effects of a change in your methods. With frequent experiments, blackouts and the 40% water changes once or twice a week your tank has never had a chance to settle down. Instability always seems to favor algae.

Four months isn't an unusual amount of time to wait for a tank to get over its initial algae problems, but at this point the algae in your tank should be mostly under control. I think the lack of stability more than anything else may be the problem. You need to get your water report to see where you stand, use a moderate water change schedule, stock the tank with a lot of plants, set up a reasonable dosing procedure, then stick to it for 6 weeks or more.

Some algae is normal in a new tank. You don't need to adjust things all the time to get rid of the algae. If algae does become a problem, then try to control it with minimal disturbance to the tank; keep the CO2 going, remove algae when you can, remove effected plants and replace them if necessary, add critters that will eat the algae that plagues you. Don't experiment much with dosing and don't do blackouts. Just try to keep things as even-keeled as you can. Eventually you and the plants will win.


Roger Miller


----------



## imported_trilinearmipmap (Feb 11, 2003)

Relax Carson.

All of us have been through some miserable problems with algae or other troubles like green water.

That is part of the challenge and learning process of a planted tank. When you get it right you will get a sense of accomplishment.

So don't give up.

Canadian Aquatic Plant Trading Website


----------



## Carson (Apr 16, 2003)

Is there a good reference site that gives the common name and chemicel name of ferts.
Like NO3 = ?
PHO4 = ?


----------



## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

Chuck's Calculator

This site will have the calculation for dry dose (hydroponic fertilizer) and the name.

When I say concentration in water I mean what is currently in the tank and not in the tap. it is best to invest in some test kit to get an approx idea as to what you have in the water and how much you should dose weekly to achieve the target require dosage.

Non consistant co2 can be a problem as well because the plant does not have part of the formula for photosynesis. The nutrient will not be use and algae will grow out of control

general 4 kit you would need are

pH
gH/kH
NO3
P
Fe and K are not as important if the other are in control. I am dosing the recommended seachem Fe and dry dose K (chuck's calculator) for the amount of water I change every 3-4 days. For trace I dose according to what one of the plant look like or the algae bloom. If I notice there is more algae. I add more trace.

I am dosing ca and mg as well. but thats for another post when you get there.

72 Gal, 3 WPG PC 10 hour, pressurize co2 /w controller 1 bps, Fluval 404, ph 6.8
A Canadian's Plant Traders website


----------



## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

IF all else fails spend the bucks and get yourself some proper light bulbs. I have had a few people with unimaginable algae problems that have tried everything clear them up with a light bulb change. 

Isn't all your frustration worth more then a few new bulbs would cost you? I would recommend a pair of FloraSun bulbs by Zoomed and something like a pair of UltraSuns to compliment them. That should ensure your working with the right lights. I have screwed up my dosing, throwing my nutrients WAY out of proportion and not had an algae outbreak.

I attribute my sucess in part to excellent lighting.


----------



## perrush (Feb 24, 2003)

@ Carson :

Lets take it step by step. This is what I think or should do.

Light seems ok, but cut it back like Hawk said.

I would stop adding anything to the tank.

Remove the algae as much as possible.

First get a water report of your tap water (I understood you do water changes with that water)

Buy at least NO3 (nitrate) and PO4 (phosfate) testkit. I would also like to know the KH and pH, although I don't like pH testkits, but if you don't have a digital pH meter, we'll have to do with a testkit.
GH is optional but is often included with KH.

btw : which algae do you have ? Can you take pictures ?

relax : we'll help you ;-)

--
English isn't my native language, but I guess you already noticed that ))
--

Perrush


----------



## Carson (Apr 16, 2003)

OK. Tomarrow I hope to have a pressurized CO2 tank hooked up.
I've got everything but the inline defuser so I'll run it into the canister intake like I have been doing with my 2 DIY bottles.
I've cut back my light to 9 hours.(should I only run 2 lights for now or use all 4 bulbs?)
I haven't added any ferts. in 3 days. I'll post what I can for tank water perameters tomarrow.
I have tests for------KH
---------------------GH 
---------------------PH
---------------------Nitrates
---------------------phosphorus
---------------------Ammonia
I can test my tap water for that also.


----------



## Carson (Apr 16, 2003)

Ok. I realize it's way off.
What would you do from here?
Tank water:
KH-5
GH-12
PH-7.6 minimum
Nitrates-0 or abouts
Phosphates-0 or abouts

Tap water:
KH-7
GH-6 
PH-7.6 minimum
Nitrates-0
Phosphate-0

I haven't added anything in 4 or 5 days and just hooked up my CO2 tank today (into canister filter intake)
What are my steps to success??????????/


----------



## Slappy (Mar 2, 2003)

That pressurized co2 should make a huge difference. You should try to get your pH down to 6.6-6.8 and the co2 should accomplish that nicely. Now play the waiting game and just try to remove as much algae as you can as it appears. You might do well to add nitrate suppliments as well. Wouldn't want to starve your plants. As everyone knows the secret to successful algae fighting is healthy, growing plants. The fact that you almost killed your plants just gave the algae a foothold to take over again. Let the plants do all the work..just give them what they need.

----------------------------
Fish Slapping Extraordinaire


----------



## perrush (Feb 24, 2003)

@ Carson :

your tap water is quit good for plants (NO3=0 / PO4=0 / KH=7 / GH=6) KH is a little high, but I wouldn't worry about that for the moment and GH is a little low, but what the heck, that shouldn't be the problem.

What I worry about is the difference in KH and GH between your tap and tank water. KH dropped, GH raised.

As for the KH : Do you do regular waterchanges ? something of 30% in the week ? No ? Start doing that !!

As far the GH : do you have rocks or gravel in the water which give Ca off to the water ? if so, get it out. We want stable water.

NO3=0 / PO4=0 isn't a good situation for plants. Do you have access to KNO3 and K2HPO4 ?
You should aim for no3=5 ppm en PO4=0.25 ppm

9 hours of light ... ok leave it that way for now.

like slappy said : bring your pH to 6.8, make sure you try to dissolve all of the CO2, otherwise you will spilling CO2, what costs money.

another question ? make sure you have still enough fast growing plants in the water. (hygrophila's for example)

and ... avoid direct sunlight into the aquarium.

steady as she goes.

--
English isn't my native language, but I guess you already noticed that ))
--

Perrush


----------



## anonapersona (Mar 11, 2004)

What does "pH 7.6 minimum" mean?

Might the pH exceed the maximum value on your test kit?


----------



## Carson (Apr 16, 2003)

Yep. But after it's ran all night it tested 6.6.


----------

