# planning for a large NPT



## jerilovesfrogs (Nov 29, 2010)

hi everyone =] this is my first post on APC! i've been a part of another forum for a year and a half....and have been keeping fish for about that long....plants for about a year. 

i have 9 tanks....all have plants but the one with the crayfish. i am about to start a 10g NPT to see how it goes, before doing it in my 125g+ in a couple months. (not sure what size tank i'll get yet). 

so here's my question. i have an FX5 filter that i bought because it was on mega sale....and before i wanted to do it as a NPT. would using it be a little much? since NPTs don't need actual filtration and lots of water movement. i *could* use it and put course and fine sponges in it, and just omit the ceramic media. but is a filter like this even necessary? could i have something smaller? i haven't used it, it is new....so if it is not something i *need*, i probably will sell it. but if it will be beneficial in some way, i'd consider keeping it. thank you!


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## digital_gods (Apr 23, 2010)

PM TexGal about this. She had a Eheim 2060 on a 125g long aquarium. She could give you the best answer.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

I think it will be fine. NPTs benefit from good circulation, and this filter will give you less than 6x the volume of the tank per hour. Many of us aim for 10x.

The nice thing about a big filter is that you can use what ever media that you need when the tank is new, then switch over to a coarse bio-media as the tank matures. This gives you good circulation with very low maintenance. And if something goes wrong, you have a big biofilter running to help with the crisis.

And, welcome to APC! I'm glad you got your posting problem solved.

--Michael


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## jerilovesfrogs (Nov 29, 2010)

thanks....i might pm her. 

the FX5 says it will do 925 gph.... so while it's not 10x in a 125g tank....it should def do the job. i have a 2217 on my 75g....and the gph is pretty low, but it has been doing a great job for a year. 

i have been reading walstad's ecology of the planted aquarium...which is very detailed and scientific...almost too much so. i have a hard time following much of it, being a non science person and all...haha. 

but i thought doing her method, you didn't really *need* 10x the filtration...or much filtration at all....just water movement, and not TOO much of it either.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Yes, that is what she writes. And I agree that you do not need to FILTER 10x the tank volume each hour. You especially do not want to run the water through zeolite, activated carbon, Purigen, three different layers of sponges, and some extra special (expensive) biomedia as one often sees in high-tech set-ups.

But I am persuaded that good circulation and flow are very important. Here, my and other's experience has lead me to differ with Walstad a little on this topic. Truthfully, in a well established tank with a low bioload, you could get away with no filtration and low flow. But I think the safety factor of having good flow and generous biolfiltration is worth having if something goes wrong.

So I suggest that you use your FX5, and load it with coarse biomedia, like lava rock. You will have good flow, low maintenance, and a back-up of biofiltration if you need it.


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## jerilovesfrogs (Nov 29, 2010)

thanks for the advise michael =] what you're saying makes sense. though i can't comment on the success or failure of doing the exact walstad method...just because i simply don't know....

but i have had pretty good success with my planted tanks....and they have no special substrate or anything. just root tabs mostly. but i'm excited to try the NPT method. 

lava rock....is that something i can get at an aquarium store? i'm not sure if i've ever come across it.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

You can get lava rock at Home Depot, Lowe's, etc. It is sold as a decorative mulch in the garden department. It works well as biomedia because it is very porous and has lots of surface area for the bacteria to colonize. ADA sells a very uniform version for use in their filters, but you don't need to pay that much for it.


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## jerilovesfrogs (Nov 29, 2010)

ok thanks, i will check out those places to see if i can still get some lava rock. i wonder if it'll be harder to get at this time of year....around here at least, our landscape season is pretty much over


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## cableguy69846 (Feb 7, 2011)

I am not sure if your question of filtration on the 10 gallon got answered. I agree about the FX5, keep it and use it on the big tank. It will be better in the long run. As for the 10 gallon. I have a 10 gallon that has EcoComplete as the substrate and I am running 2 AquaClear20 filters on it. I only use sponges and ceramic rings in mine, and there is a filter on either end of the tank, and the flow is great. You could also go with an eheim of some sort, though I don't know the model number of the one you would need. The aquaclears are producing some good flow for the tank, and I pleased with how little detritis there is now. When I switch the tank to NPT, I will still use both filters. I hope this helps with your 10 gallon.

Oh, yeah, I will be following along for the ride.


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## jerilovesfrogs (Nov 29, 2010)

hi cableguy....well the filter question was for my future 125+g.....whether i should keep the FX5 i have. which i think i will. 

i recently set up a 10g NPT to "see how it goes", before committing to a very large set up. i have a lot of spare HOBs i could use. i think i'll use the nano hob for the 10g...as i don't want a ton of water movement. i'll have to post some pics when more of the plants arrive, and i get them in. =] 

i'm also toying with the idea of freezing some topsoil in icecube trays and sticking them under the gravel in my 75g. it has been set up for a year...and i don't want to tear it down....so this is the next best thing i guess. sounds kind of cool....freezing dirt haha.


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## cableguy69846 (Feb 7, 2011)

jerilovesfrogs said:


> hi cableguy....well the filter question was for my future 125+g.....whether i should keep the FX5 i have. which i think i will.
> 
> i recently set up a 10g NPT to "see how it goes", before committing to a very large set up. i have a lot of spare HOBs i could use. i think i'll use the nano hob for the 10g...as i don't want a ton of water movement. i'll have to post some pics when more of the plants arrive, and i get them in. =]
> 
> i'm also toying with the idea of freezing some topsoil in icecube trays and sticking them under the gravel in my 75g. it has been set up for a year...and i don't want to tear it down....so this is the next best thing i guess. sounds kind of cool....freezing dirt haha.


Got ya. I thought the filter question was for the 10gallon. Good on the FX5, hold on to that bad boy with a death grip. Lol. What plants are you planning on for the 10 gallon? And what will freezing the dirt do? Would that act like fert tabs?


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## jerilovesfrogs (Nov 29, 2010)

so the plants i'm trying out in the 10 npt are marseila-sp? 4 leaf clover, java fern (duh-right?, i know this will grow), crypt balassii, ozelot red, dwarf water onion, crypt retrospiralis, maybe some dwarf sag from another tank, i'll have to see. lobellia cardinalis-small form. anacharis (for now), duckweed and water lettuce...and maybe some frogbit from another tank. 

i've grown wendtii crypts with success, so i'm hoping the same will be true of these crypts. 

this is more or less and test tank. to see how things go....not as much about design i guess. but with walstad tanks, it's usually not about design....but just the plants themselves, and how they create their own little perfect environment. ya know? =]


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## cableguy69846 (Feb 7, 2011)

jerilovesfrogs said:


> so the plants i'm trying out in the 10 npt are marseila-sp? 4 leaf clover, java fern (duh-right?, i know this will grow), crypt balassii, ozelot red, dwarf water onion, crypt retrospiralis, maybe some dwarf sag from another tank, i'll have to see. lobellia cardinalis-small form. anacharis (for now), duckweed and water lettuce...and maybe some frogbit from another tank.
> 
> i've grown wendtii crypts with success, so i'm hoping the same will be true of these crypts.
> 
> this is more or less and test tank. to see how things go....not as much about design i guess. but with walstad tanks, it's usually not about design....but just the plants themselves, and how they create their own little perfect environment. ya know? =]


Looks good to my inexperienced eye. Lol. One thing I have noticed about the java fern is that it needs a little nutrients in the water column, or it will grow really slow. Just something to think about.


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## jerilovesfrogs (Nov 29, 2010)

yeah java fern grows kind of slowly haha. i have a bunch of it in my edge, with 2 adf's....and i don't dose anything in that tank because of the frogs. they take in things through their skin...and i don't want to risk anything. so while the ferns have been growing well with nothing.....perhaps they would grow faster with some nutrients. but i'm happy with how they've been growing for many months. =]


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## cableguy69846 (Feb 7, 2011)

jerilovesfrogs said:


> yeah java fern grows kind of slowly haha. i have a bunch of it in my edge, with 2 adf's....and i don't dose anything in that tank because of the frogs. they take in things through their skin...and i don't want to risk anything. so while the ferns have been growing well with nothing.....perhaps they would grow faster with some nutrients. but i'm happy with how they've been growing for many months. =]


I need to find out your secret. Mine grow slow, and the leaves brown and rot really fast. I don't know what it is. ADF's are awesome. I think I need more of them.


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## jerilovesfrogs (Nov 29, 2010)

haha, idk what my secret is. i had some of it in with some tylo snails i had.....and i found out the hard way that they eat plants. i had no idea. they ruined a lot of my jfern. and hairgrass, and vals. luckily they left my huge wendtii alone. >.< but they have been rehomed....since the only tank that does not have plants in the cray tank. and they wouldn't last long in there. 

so yeah, but the tank where most of it is, is the Edge, and i hardly EVER turn the light on, ever. so the only light they get...and the anubias, is the light from my great room...which is a lot of light with all the windows. so i guess i have no clue what i do! once in a while i get rid of leaves that are brown. i thought i read somewhere they like to be pruned every now and then...to encourage more growth. not completely sure on that though. 

what kind of set up are yours in?


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Ah yes, Tylomelania snails--so pretty, and so herbivorous!


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## cableguy69846 (Feb 7, 2011)

jerilovesfrogs said:


> haha, idk what my secret is. i had some of it in with some tylo snails i had.....and i found out the hard way that they eat plants. i had no idea. they ruined a lot of my jfern. and hairgrass, and vals. luckily they left my huge wendtii alone. >.< but they have been rehomed....since the only tank that does not have plants in the cray tank. and they wouldn't last long in there.
> 
> so yeah, but the tank where most of it is, is the Edge, and i hardly EVER turn the light on, ever. so the only light they get...and the anubias, is the light from my great room...which is a lot of light with all the windows. so i guess i have no clue what i do! once in a while i get rid of leaves that are brown. i thought i read somewhere they like to be pruned every now and then...to encourage more growth. not completely sure on that though.
> 
> what kind of set up are yours in?


Mine is in my heavily planted 10 gallon that gets 12 hours of 20 watt full spectrum mini CFL for light, DIY yeast CO2, and a light fish load. My windelov Java Fern was growing like a weed, just not the regular stuff. I think is cuz I didn't trim it hardly at all. I trimmed it yesterday, so I will see what happens. If you want to see more specs, they are the first post in my thread in my sig.

Scratch that, it is the 10 gallon revamp thread in my sig. Lol. Wrong forum. DOH! *Facepalm*


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## jerilovesfrogs (Nov 29, 2010)

i'll check it out!

Michael: yes, if only the girl (a friend from another forum), let me in on the little secret that tylos are bad news for plants. but they should be arriving to another friend in mn, hopefully today! so now my plants are safe. =]


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