# 60cm - non-CO2 play tank



## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

The layout isn't finalised, as it's an experimental tank where I will implement new ideas on a regular basis.

Carbon is supplied by Easy-Life Easycarbo, rather than CO2. Growth is approx. 4x slower than when CO2 injected, yet I can grow 'demanding' plants.

Light is 2 x 24w T5 for 7 hours. 
I dose a combo of Easy-Life and Tropica products for micros and macros. 
Filter is a Superfish Pro 4 (1550lph) with 12mm glassware (16-12mm reducers at glassware end).
Substrate is black quartz 1-2mm with Tropica stuff underneath.


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## Nevermore (Mar 26, 2007)

Beautiful tank! Is Easy-Life Easycarbo the same as Excel? I'm surprised you can get away with not using CO2.


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## richardesc (Aug 13, 2008)

Awesome!!! How long did it took you to develop this tank. Have the same 2 x 24wT5 lights but my plants seems to asking for more....


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Amazing George! Did you have CO2 in the beginning then remove it once the tank was established? Do you dose the ferts leaner than a CO2 tank because of the slower growth rates?

Your filter specs suggest you have a typhoon in that tank! The turnover rate for a 60 cm tank must be like 20x per hr! I am surprise that your plants are not being blown around. 

Is this intentional for non-CO2 setups?


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Nevermore said:


> Beautiful tank! Is Easy-Life Easycarbo the same as Excel? I'm surprised you can get away with not using CO2.


Thanks!

Yes, Easycarbo is very similar to Excel.

I was surprised I could 'get away' with non-CO2 injection too. It was worth the experiment though!



> Awesome!!! How long did it took you to develop this tank. Have the same 2 x 24wT5 lights but my plants seems to asking for more....


Thanks!

This layout is about three months old.

Generally, I never find lack of light an issue if nutrients are dosed appropriately along with good circulation and substrate.



> Amazing George! Did you have CO2 in the beginning then remove it once the tank was established? Do you dose the ferts leaner than a CO2 tank because of the slower growth rates?
> 
> Your filter specs suggest you have a typhoon in that tank! The turnover rate for a 60 cm tank must be like 20x per hr! I am surprise that your plants are not being blown around.
> 
> Is this intentional for non-CO2 setups?


Thanks!

I did start with CO2 but was fed up with the maintenance, as I have a very busy schedule.

I halved the dosing to compensate for the lower nutrient uptake rates, but actually had to add more K, as I was experiencing deficiencies.

I always go for 10x turnover minimum. 20x is better. Of course, the actual turnover is nothing like that, as the filter manufacturer's usually do not take into account height, media, pipework etc.

You can read more about this tank here - http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=234

Thanks again.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

George another very nice tank. I'm curious on the turnover. What is the main reason you go for such a high number?


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

gf225 said:


> Thanks!
> This layout is about three months old.
> I did start with CO2 but was fed up with the maintenance, as I have a very busy schedule.


When did you cutoff the CO2, once the tank has finished cycling?


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## lildark185 (Jul 7, 2006)

Beautiful tank!


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

houseofcards said:


> George another very nice tank. I'm curious on the turnover. What is the main reason you go for such a high number?


Thanks.

High turnover is for me good because -

1) It effectively distributes nutrients, especially CO2 (if you use it).
2) It minimises detritus than can cause algae.
3) I've found it minimises GSA on plant leaves.
4) It keeps the fish fit. They use more energy so can eat a lot more food - like us working out. Of course, some species aren't suitable for very high levels of flow.

If you use lily pipes, spraybars etc. appropriately then turbulence doesn't have to be excessive.

A lot of UK enthusiasts supplement flow in their tanks using Hydor Koralia powerheads.

Also, if you use a filter that is vastly over-rated for your tank size, the biological filtration is enhanced, resulting in less risk of ammonia/ammonium that said to be a huge trigger of algae.



> When did you cutoff the CO2, once the tank has finished cycling?


Cycling? What's that?! lol

After about 5 weeks I think. I can't remember exactly.

Thanks again.


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## Supercoley1 (May 28, 2007)

Looks good George. Its a little darker than other scapes you have done. Is this due to the angle you took the shot at as you usually seem to shoot level or from below.

AC


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Thanks, Andy.

Probably photography technique/monitor calibration.


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## A.Dror (Jan 25, 2009)

Very very nice tank!!esthetic and Healthy

I have to ask you,How do you skip so easily on the cycling???i see you Joking about it,me...i want to cry..what's the secret?



Dror.


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

A.Dror said:


> Very very nice tank!!esthetic and Healthy
> 
> I have to ask you,How do you skip so easily on the cycling???i see you Joking about it,me...i want to cry..what's the secret?
> 
> Dror.


My apologies for making fun of cycling.

I simply plant the tank very heavily from the outset. Wait a couple of weeks for the plants to settle and then put in some algae eaters. Then gradually stock display fish.

I think most folk do something similar. Cycling in the traditional sense isn't so common in planted tanks, as far as I know.

In heavily planted tanks, the plants use up nitrogen compounds so the fish aren't adversely affected by ammonia/nitrite.

If you use ADA Aqua Soil, this leeches ammonia in the early stages so can also help cycling.


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## A.Dror (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks for your answer.you don't have to apologize...sorry if i was a bit rood,as you see english is not my best side 

I am familiar with this theory and i used it more then once in the past,but if i want to start directly with the scape which is carpet of HC,what should i do??

Dror.


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Just HC? Try the dry start method (DSM).

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=18967


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Very nice, George!


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## matt1045 (Oct 11, 2008)

very nice tank. I am amazed you can get this scape without CO2 as well. It looks great though.


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## Jason Baliban (Feb 21, 2005)

I really like this one George, it is one of my fav's of yours!

Great job!

jB


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

gf225 said:


> My apologies for making fun of cycling.
> 
> I simply plant the tank very heavily from the outset. Wait a couple of weeks for the plants to settle and then put in some algae eaters. Then gradually stock display fish.
> 
> ...


I was under the impression that you should not add any livestock while you have detectable NH3 levels even if the tank was planted heavily from the outset. I used Amazonia original and it took me about 3-4 weeks of 2x weekly 50% water changes before the NH3 became undetectable.

May the we differ on how what we mean by "heavily" planted. I noticed from the AGA 2008 slide show that Amano did the same.


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## ch3fb0yrdee (Jul 26, 2008)

George, you never fail to amaze me. Your scapes always inspires me! No CO2 and that is your results?? You are an artist. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Thanks, folks!



Bunbuku said:


> I was under the impression that you should not add any livestock while you have detectable NH3 levels even if the tank was planted heavily from the outset. I used Amazonia original and it took me about 3-4 weeks of 2x weekly 50% water changes before the NH3 became undetectable.
> 
> May the we differ on how what we mean by "heavily" planted. I noticed from the AGA 2008 slide show that Amano did the same.


Sorry. There's been some misunderstanding.

One should not add livestock to any set up if there is detectable NH3, NO2 etc. So when using Aqua Soil, one should wait, like you suggest.

However, with regular substrates, if you plant heavily enough, then the plants will maintain water quality enabling the immediate light stocking of small fish etc.


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Here's a full tank shot with equipment removed.


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## N4505 (Sep 5, 2008)

Amazing tank and very interesting idea...
I'd like to try it out but my problem is that I use tap water with a relatively high ph value at about 7,5 to 8 so I use co2 to keep it around 7. This isn't possible with easy carbo or excel I guess.. Is there anything else you recommend about it?


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## Supercoley1 (May 28, 2007)

7.5 - 8 shouldn't be a problem for fish or plants alike. Have a go 

AC


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## N4505 (Sep 5, 2008)

Supercoley1 said:


> 7.5 - 8 shouldn't be a problem for fish or plants alike. Have a go
> 
> AC


I just feel that my tetras won't be happy with ph 8, but perhaps I'll give it a go.. 
Maybe I'll just give them away, besides it's the plants that I care the most, fish are just supplementary...


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## gwendal (Feb 10, 2009)

Very nice, with no CO2.
Good job with the fertilicer, the C is aported with that way.


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## ch3fb0yrdee (Jul 26, 2008)

I just saw the link you had post for the dry start HC and I am going to try it out. I hope it works out well for me, HC has always been a problem for me. 

Is there any illeffects on the HC after it has been grown emmersed and then submersed in water?

gf, what is your dosing scheduling like?


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## NowMed (Feb 10, 2009)

wow..so nice


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## foofooree (Mar 11, 2007)

Very impressive tank. Especially considering there is no co2 fertilization.


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## rmg (Dec 5, 2008)

It's a non CO2 tank? Beatifful, I on't have words. Good Job.


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Thanks.



> Is there any illeffects on the HC after it has been grown emmersed and then submersed in water?


The HC will go through some transistions but generally it should be fine. Healthy emerged plants adapt pretty well.



> gf, what is your dosing scheduling like?


2ml Easy-Life Easycarbo per day
1ml Tropica Plant Nutrition+ per day
1ml Easy-Life Profito per day
1ml Easy-Life Ferro per day

1/2 water change per week

tap water is hard and high in NO3 and PO4.


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## jazzlvr123 (Apr 29, 2007)

geat example of a non co2 tank thanks for sharing


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## NowMed (Feb 10, 2009)

HA!! Thats your play tank.. .. well it looks awesome. I hope i can get my real tank lookin that good.


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