# T5 bulb and photoperiod question



## helgymatt (Sep 12, 2007)

I have a 4x54 watt TEK with 2 GE Middays in the center bay and 2 10,000k (Aqua Medic Ocean White) on the sides. I run the Middays for 8 hrs and the 2 10,000K bulbs for a 3 hr burst in the middle of the photoperiod. My crypts have been melting a lot over the last few months and haven't really grown much since I set the tank up August 1. I know they are slow, but they just keep melting. CO2 has been up and down since then so I contribute some of it to that. 

But is the fact that I give a burst with a different type of bulb a problem? Or is the 10,000K bulb burst more of what would happen in reality (if that even makes sense....)? Is my understanding that the 10,000 K bulbs are more like "afternoon" sunlight than the 6700k bulbs correct. 

One of those 10,000 K bulbs is weak anyway (and has been since I got it) so I thought about buying two more middays to have all the bulbs the same. 

Hopefully someone can comment and at least try to answer my question
Tank is 75 gallons
Thanks


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

Any reason you're doing "bursts"? I run 3x54W T5 HO lights straight from 2pm to 10pm every day over my 72 gal pressurized CO2 tank using an EI dosing regime. Other than the occasional challenging plant most everything grows really well. The T5 lights are 2x6700k (Hagen Life-Glo) and 1x18,000k (Hagen Power-Glo). 4-5 small crypt wentii's planted in June are now about 50+ plants and 12-15 inches tall and are actually becoming invasive. Imagine, crypts invasive.

Crypts in my experience are not that slow actually (well, relatively speaking compared to like myrios I guess they are) but not as slow as say, Anubias. I do not think your issue is the light's K rating. 

What is your fert regime and why is your CO2 up and down?


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## helgymatt (Sep 12, 2007)

I'm doing bursts because that just seems to be what everyone else does... I was told all 4 bulbs would be too much and create an algae problem if on all day, unless I only had them all on for like 6 hrs or something. 

Ferts are E.I and the CO2 was up and down because I was experimenting with a Mazzei venturi and things were not going very well

In the past the crypts have grown much faster in my other tanks.


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## KRiley (Jun 30, 2005)

I run my 75 gallon with 4x54 T5 HO for 8 hours a day without problems. I have a little algae here and there....but I have not introduced my clean up crew yet.


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## helgymatt (Sep 12, 2007)

KRiley said:


> I run my 75 gallon with 4x54 T5 HO for 8 hours a day without problems. I have a little algae here and there....but I have not introduced my clean up crew yet.


Thanks for the info.
What is your bulb config?


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## chagovatoloco (Nov 17, 2007)

A six hour photo period will be enough to grow plants and keep algae at bay. Simplify it, it dose not need to be that complicated.


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## helgymatt (Sep 12, 2007)

So the general consensus is to run all bulbs for a 6-7 hr photoperiod rather than bursts? Should I ease into this or just do it?


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## SpeedEuphoria (Jul 9, 2008)

Personally I think you are just fine with the burst.

Since you seem to be having issues especially with the CO2 I would deff not go to all 4 the whole time even if its shorter.

Running all 4, you will need to have everything dialed in per say as things will change fast.

How you have it, is a little more forgiving, which it sounds like you need for now as you get things dialed in.

As with anything I would not just jump the lighting around too much, like going from a burst to full. 

When you get the current setup dialed in, watch the plants and slowly add time to the noon burst till you get to full. 

Its all in how much growth you want and can handle, for some just 2x54w for 8hrs is plenty, others have 4x54w 8hrs.


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## helgymatt (Sep 12, 2007)

SpeedEuphoria said:


> Personally I think you are just fine with the burst.
> 
> Since you seem to be having issues especially with the CO2 I would deff not go to all 4 the whole time even if its shorter.
> 
> ...


I've got my CO2 dialed in good right now. - have for the last week or so. I just bumped up to all lights for 7 hrs yesterday. Maybe I'll dial it down to six hrs for a while. Hopefully things will be fine. 
I also keep forgetting that I really only have 3 bulbs running. One bulb hardly lights up at all. 
Matt


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## Nelumbo74 (May 2, 2008)

I recommend replacing all your bulbs with Coralife's 36w 48" bulbs. I use 2 of the 6700k, 1 of the 10000k and one of the colormax, which provides the red spectrum. It's much less than the 3+ wpg that most people stand by, but I get excellent pearling and brilliant red coloration on my plants. I also am algae free, and I run my bulbs for 13 hours per day. I get my bulbs at www.bigalsonline.com. They're actually on sale right now.



helgymatt said:


> I have a 4x54 watt TEK with 2 GE Middays in the center bay and 2 10,000k (Aqua Medic Ocean White) on the sides. I run the Middays for 8 hrs and the 2 10,000K bulbs for a 3 hr burst in the middle of the photoperiod. My crypts have been melting a lot over the last few months and haven't really grown much since I set the tank up August 1. I know they are slow, but they just keep melting. CO2 has been up and down since then so I contribute some of it to that.
> 
> But is the fact that I give a burst with a different type of bulb a problem? Or is the 10,000K bulb burst more of what would happen in reality (if that even makes sense....)? Is my understanding that the 10,000 K bulbs are more like "afternoon" sunlight than the 6700k bulbs correct.
> 
> ...


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## helgymatt (Sep 12, 2007)

Nelumbo, 
I appreciate your suggestion, but I have to say I don't agree with much of it. 
First off, any quick search will reveal that Giesemann Midday bulbs are the best you can buy (most peoples opinion). They peak at red, blue, and green. I also use 2-10,000 K AquaMedic Ocean Whites. Second off, these bulbs are only 2 months old and I'm not about to waste another $125 on bulbs. The one bulb that is weak must have been a dud in the bunch (1 AquaMedic). Lastly, I bought a TEK so I could use HO bulbs (54 watt). My issue is not algae or a lack of growth or pearling, it is/was the repeated melting of my crypts.



Nelumbo74 said:


> I recommend replacing all your bulbs with Coralife's 36w 48" bulbs. I use 2 of the 6700k, 1 of the 10000k and one of the colormax, which provides the red spectrum. It's much less than the 3+ wpg that most people stand by, but I get excellent pearling and brilliant red coloration on my plants. I also am algae free, and I run my bulbs for 13 hours per day. I get my bulbs at www.bigalsonline.com. They're actually on sale right now.


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## Nelumbo74 (May 2, 2008)

Just trying to help. I'm not going to comment on the search regarding Geisemann bulbs being the best you can buy other than to say I think that's baloney, but just my opinion. I have spent the money on Giesemann bulbs, and found that you aren't really getting what you pay for. In fact, the Coralife bulbs also peak on the blue, green and red spectrums, but at probably half the cost of a Geisemann bulb. I just add one colormax to give an extra jolt of the red spectrum.

I was suggesting the reduction in wattage, because the issue was brought up regarding a midday burst of light, which in my opinion, is ridiculous. I don't want to just have the lights on my tank for just 6 hours a day either. I've learned from a public aquarium standpoint, where you can't have the lights on for just 6 hours a day, that there are affordable and sensible alternatives to the megawattage VHO lighting that most people use. These alternatives provide all the light necessary for steady, healthy growth of the plants, including crypts, without all the additional manipulation and noodling that using 4- 5+ wpg requires, and you get all the aesthetically pleasing coloration in the plants that most people contribute to 4 -5+ wpg.

edit: I should clarify. I do not represent a public aquarium, but I do endorse one.



helgymatt said:


> Nelumbo,
> I appreciate your suggestion, but I have to say I don't agree with much of it.
> First off, any quick search will reveal that Giesemann Midday bulbs are the best you can buy (most peoples opinion). They peak at red, blue, and green. I also use 2-10,000 K AquaMedic Ocean Whites. Second off, these bulbs are only 2 months old and I'm not about to waste another $125 on bulbs. The one bulb that is weak must have been a dud in the bunch (1 AquaMedic). Lastly, I bought a TEK so I could use HO bulbs (54 watt). My issue is not algae or a lack of growth or pearling, it is/was the repeated melting of my crypts.


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## freydo (Jan 7, 2006)

how new is this setup? normally when crypts are newly planted, some leaves do melt/die off. this is just the plant adjusting to the surroundings. as long as you are following a good fert regiment, providing sufficient lighting along with (maybe) co2, your crypts will come back around.

of course in my experience, some plants don't do very well if there is too much light, so if the majority of your photoperiod is in the modorate light levels, you should be good.

hope this helps.


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

freydo said:


> how new is this setup? normally when crypts are newly planted, some leaves do melt/die off. this is just the plant adjusting to the surroundings. as long as you are following a good fert regiment, providing sufficient lighting along with (maybe) co2, your crypts will come back around.
> 
> of course in my experience, some plants don't do very well if there is too much light, so if the majority of your photoperiod is in the modorate light levels, you should be good.
> 
> hope this helps.


I agree with the first part of this. Often when I get new crypts they melt and most of the leaves die off, but a week later all comes back strong.

In regards to the lighting I have a forest of wentii growing under some pretty strong T5 HO lights. And I even have some anubias, supposedly lower light lovers, growing just beautifully tied right at the top of some driftwood and even emersing a bit right under my T5's.

I really really doubt the k rating has anything to do with your issue. I grow or have grown crypts under 4700k, 6700k, 10,000k and 18,000k and have really not noticed any being any better than the other.


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## helgymatt (Sep 12, 2007)

Nelumbo74 said:


> Just trying to help. I'm not going to comment on the search regarding Geisemann bulbs being the best you can buy other than to say I think that's baloney, but just my opinion. I have spent the money on Giesemann bulbs, and found that you aren't really getting what you pay for. In fact, the Coralife bulbs also peak on the blue, green and red spectrums, but at probably half the cost of a Geisemann bulb. I just add one colormax to give an extra jolt of the red spectrum.
> 
> I was suggesting the reduction in wattage, because the issue was brought up regarding a midday burst of light, which in my opinion, is ridiculous. I don't want to just have the lights on my tank for just 6 hours a day either. I've learned from a public aquarium standpoint, where you can't have the lights on for just 6 hours a day, that there are affordable and sensible alternatives to the megawattage VHO lighting that most people use. These alternatives provide all the light necessary for steady, healthy growth of the plants, including crypts, without all the additional manipulation and noodling that using 4- 5+ wpg requires, and you get all the aesthetically pleasing coloration in the plants that most people contribute to 4 -5+ wpg.


My main issue was...why would I buy all new bulbs when the ones I have are great to begin with? As a side I would not argue that coralife bulbs are not any good, and my comment about Middays being the best IS the the opinion of many others....I can't help that. I have no evidence myself that they are the best because I havn't use any other bulbs, but I can say all my other plants grow like wild. I understand why you would want a longer photoperiod for public viewing, etc., but I only see the tank from 5-11 at night...6-8 hrs works well.

I agree that the "burst" idea is really nonsence. I was only giving it a try to see what the results were and so I wouldn't have a TON of light right when I set the tank up. As i said I've decided to give up on the burst and run all 4 lights (actually 3.5) for 6 or 7 hours.

I'm not sure what manipulation and noodling you are refering too....


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## helgymatt (Sep 12, 2007)

Thanks for your comments.

The crypts have been in the tank, in the same spot for 3 months now. I attribue some of their melting due to my unstable CO2, which is stable now. Hopefully they will recover.

The original question of the thread was, are there any negative effects of having a 8 hr photoperiod of 2 Geisemann Midday bulbs with a burst of 2 10,000K bulbs for 3 hrs? It was running through my head that the burst of a different K rating would cause problems with the crypts.... Since crypts like stable lighting, ferts, and CO2, I didn't know if this "burst" could be considered unstable.

We have gotten a little off track here, but thats ok.

I have anubius, narrow leaf fern, fissidens all performing excellent under my HOT5 lighting.



rich815 said:


> I agree with the first part of this. Often when I get new crypts they melt and most of the leaves die off, but a week later all comes back strong.
> 
> In regards to the lighting I have a forest of wentii growing under some pretty strong T5 HO lights. And I even have some anubias, supposedly lower light lovers, growing just beautifully tied right at the top of some driftwood and even emersing a bit right under my T5's.
> 
> I really really doubt the k rating has anything to do with your issue. I grow or have grown crypts under 4700k, 6700k, 10,000k and 18,000k and have really not noticed any being any better than the other.


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## Ljeto (Oct 18, 2008)

I have grown crypts under various lighting conditions, and they generally did not mind. I use pressurized co2, and they love it - if it's available. Sometimes it's not (7-10 day intervals), when the co2 in the bottle runs out. Without co2, they just grow significantly slower.

Crypts being heavy root feeders, what and how much do you feed them with? I would tend to believe that melting has more to do with that rather than light or co2.


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