# 10 gallon semi-planted puffer tank



## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

I say semi-planted because I'm not finished getting rid of the plastic plants. 

10 gallon tank, 2 10 watt mini compact fluorescent bulbs rated at 6500k. Current plant residents are Cladophora aegagropila, Ceratophyllum demersum, Cryptocoryne x willisii, assumed Lemna sp., Microsorum pteropus, and a few strands of Vesicularia dubyana. Everything else is plastic. Will soon be home to dwarf puffers and possibly ghost/cherry shrimp and perhaps an oto.

Substrate is Flourite, added yesterday.










Comments, suggestions and constructive criticism welcome. Other plant suggestions are also welcome.


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## ted spade (Dec 14, 2004)

Do you have a co2 system? If not I would reccomend a DIY co2 system but you would have to be careful of the Ph swings.


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

ted spade said:


> Do you have a co2 system? If not I would reccomend a DIY co2 system but you would have to be careful of the Ph swings.


No, not at this moment. I have had many issues with this tank, trying to keep the water stable (low KH problems causing pH drops during fishless cycling), and I originally started out just getting the plants as a novelty.

DIY CO2 at this point is a bit much for me, but I am considering trying it out in the future.


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## RTR (Oct 28, 2005)

I like the radar dish Marimo ball holder!


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

RTR said:


> I like the radar dish Marimo ball holder!




Perhaps it could function as a satellite dish for the puffers? Would they like Animal Planet? :yawinkle:

Thank you. Only use I could find for that clamshell and it keeps the little bugger from rolling all over the tank when I poke around in there.

It had a baby recently. Well, more like I snipped off this larger piece that was growing out of it. The baby's resting on top of the driftwood with the Java fern rhizome.


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

I have a short list of 'possible' plants for the tank. These are ones that have caught my eye. Some have requirements beyond what I can provide, others are pains to grow, and yet others aren't even available here easily, but if I was to obtain any of them, does anyone have good ideas on how to place them? This is the first time I've ever made any effort at aquascaping an aquarium, so I'm trying to get ideas beyond the simple rule of short plants - foreground, long plants - background.

I'm open to other plant suggestions that would look attractive as well.

Anubias barteri v. nana 'Petite'
Anubias barteri v. nana
Ceratophyllum submersum
Microsorum pteropus 'Windeløv'
Limnophila sessiliflora
Ceratopteris thalictroides
Monosolenium tenerum
Vesicularia fasciculata
Eleocharis acicularis
Eleocharis "parvula"
Hemianthus callitrichoides


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

Alright, I've gone further into the process of de-plasticizing the tank. 

Forgive the murkiness of the photo, I forgot to wipe the glass prior to taking the picture. This is the tank without flash this time. The lighting has remained the same.










New plants are Hygrophila polysperma, Monosolenium tenerum and Hemianthus callitrichoides "Cuba". The marimo ball collapsed when I cut a small piece off of it to create a little mini algae ball, so it got wrapped around the driftwood. I'm adding Flourish Excel per bottle instructions now.

Constructive criticism is extremely welcome on all fronts.


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## Sully (Nov 11, 2005)

Hmm, looks generally good. :-k I dislike the plant (hairgrass) in front of the rock pillar/tunnel structure. I would take out the middle structure, and stick to that thing on the left. and have the HC grow out alittle around it. But all in all it looks generally good. I don't mean to be overly critical, just saying what I think looks okay. What's good to another, is crap to the other. If it makes you tingle, stick to it. 

Sully


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## imafishy! (Dec 11, 2005)

Is that shell in the front a real shell? I think shells hardens your pH? I'm not really sure...I might need to do a little research. I also think that the hairgrass is too tall to be placed in the front. Nice start on the tank!!


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

Sully said:


> I dislike the plant (hairgrass) in front of the rock pillar/tunnel structure.


So do I. I just didn't have anywhere to put it and I'm hesitant to remove cover, for both the puffers and the otos.

I removed it anyway, I really couldn't find a place to cram it, without disturbing my new H. polysperma stems.



> I would take out the middle structure, and stick to that thing on the left. and have the HC grow out alittle around it.


Not sure exactly what you're referring to.



> But all in all it looks generally good. I don't mean to be overly critical, just saying what I think looks okay. What's good to another, is crap to the other. If it makes you tingle, stick to it.


Nah, overly critical gives me new ideas and new ways to think of things. I am by no means stuck on this particular layout, I'm always open to shifting a few things around.



imafishy! said:


> Is that shell in the front a real shell? I think shells hardens your pH? I'm not really sure...I might need to do a little research.


Yes, shells up your pH and raise your KH, which is what I am aiming for. My tapwater doesn't have the greatest buffering capacity, and if you're worried about my seashell, then I guess I shouldn't tell you about the crushed coral in the HOB filter? :lol: My puffers needed a bit harder water, so the seashell is of no real consequence.


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

Constructive criticism was asked and constructive criticism will be provided.

1) Please, please ditch the remaining plastic plants. Add hornwort, add Anubias, add Java Fern...*ANYTHING* looks better than a plastic plant! I really don't see any need for these as you have already added several tall, fast growing stem plants.

2) Take out the shells. It looks tacky in a freshwater aquarium. If you really like seashells, collect them in a box or on a book shelf but keep them out of the tank!

3) The piled up slate not only looks unnatural...it also looks like it is about to perilously collapse. Even worse, they are all of unmatching color. If you want slate in your tank, get all of it of the same color. If you want to keep these, I would tie them over completely with java moss and keep them as moss rocks in the midground.

Don't want to be harsh, but there are a lot of major details that could definitely be improved in this little tank. However, you seem to have the write spirit, and I am sure this tank will evolve into something beautiful with time.

Carlos


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

tsunami said:


> Constructive criticism was asked and constructive criticism will be provided.


Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. I'm a total beginner at all of this.



> 1) Please, please ditch the remaining plastic plants. Add hornwort, add Anubias, add Java Fern...*ANYTHING* looks better than a plastic plant! I really don't see any need for these as you have already added several tall, fast growing stem plants.


For the record, the only stem plant is H. polysperma.

I removed the last of the plastic tonight and redivided the H. polysperma, replanting it in the back. I'm not entirely pleased with how it looks and I want to get more than one type of stem plant in there, but I do agree, it's better than the plastic. The fish are not happy, however. They'll have to wait a week or so until I can get a hold of more appropriate plants for cover.



> 2) Take out the shells. It looks tacky in a freshwater aquarium. If you really like seashells, collect them in a box or on a book shelf but keep them out of the tank!


I do not like the shell. The only reason why it is still in there is to keep the baby moss ball from getting lost and dying. I haven't found another solution aside from the shell to keep it in one place. Once I think up something better, it's either getting pulled out or put into the filter for additional buffering.



> 3) The piled up slate not only looks unnatural...it also looks like it is about to perilously collapse. Even worse, they are all of unmatching color. If you want slate in your tank, get all of it of the same color. If you want to keep these, I would tie them over completely with java moss and keep them as moss rocks in the midground.


Ahh, I was waiting for someone to poke at that one.

I worked with what I had with that structure, and the vast majority of it isn't even slate. It's not as unstable as it seems, it is actually rather sturdy.  I dislike paying outrageous LFS prices for rock, so I pick up what I can, and this was sort of just thrown together.

The plan was to wrap everything in moss or something similar, however, I have not had success with java moss. The last batch I bought died, so I haven't had much luck with that plan.

That structure is going to be a work in progress, for sure. It's there for the fish more than my enjoyment, because it provides visual complexity and hiding places. I am trying to see if Monosolenium tenerum will grow on the cave on the right; if that's successful then I will probably try to grow it on the rest of the rockwork.

Again, thank you for the pointed, but extremely helpful advice.


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

Well, the plastic is gone.










I still haven't found a way to stop in-tank reflections from bouncing off of the side and back walls of the tank. Most of the tricks I try result in less than crisp pictures, especially the two that I've used in this thread without flash; lack of a tripod makes things much more difficult, especially with my unsteady hands. 

I think additional stem plants are needed, the Hygro just doesn't do it, at least alone. L. sessiliflora has been catching my eye for quite some time, if my LFS would ever get it in. L. difformis is supposed to be a puffer's dream playground, so that's also another possibility.


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

Green Gecko,

Don't just limit yourself to stem plants -- consider swords as well. With the type of lighting you currently have, I do not think Echinodorus sp. will outgrow your tank in a hurry.

Another plant to consider is Hemianthus micranthemoides. Cryptocoryne wendtii varieties are also a great choice. 

Limnophila sessiliflora should be a fine choice.

Sorry for the rather pointed critique, but you did put yourself up to it. 

Carlos


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

tsunami said:


> Don't just limit yourself to stem plants -- consider swords as well. With the type of lighting you currently have, I do not think Echinodorus sp. will outgrow your tank in a hurry.


Most are not visually appealing to me, personally. I don't really have a solid direction that I want to take this tank yet... But swords never came to mind for anything in the future.



> Another plant to consider is Hemianthus micranthemoides.


H. micranthemoides has been on my shopping list for a while now. The only problem is finding it. My LFS gets whatever they get, regardless if a request for a specific plant is made or not.



> Limnophila sessiliflora should be a fine choice.


I like the soft look of L. sessiliflora. Something about fluffy looking plants or plants that are really small have always caught my eye.



> Sorry for the rather pointed critique, but you did put yourself up to it.


Apology not needed, I appreciated it.

My mission now is to find new rocks to create something that will have many hiding spaces for the fish, like what I have now, but is much more visually appealing. I'm not sure what colour rocks will blend well with my Flourite substrate and look natural.

No one has commented on the driftwood. I'm not sure what to make of it myself, besides that the otos appreciate it, and I like that I can attach Anubias and java fern to it.


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

An update.










I haven't done much besides minor alterations. The H. polysperma grows rather fast, so I have more stems than I began with, and I am chopping at them frequently to make them more bushy. Most of the stems have started branching now.

The Monosolenium tenerum is taking off like a rocket. It sat there doing nothing for a long while and I wasn't sure if it was even going to grow, but one day it perked up and started growing like a weed. I trimmed what was growing out of the netting and shoved more underneath to pad out some bare patches. More needs to be done there as well.

The HC has been kicked up by the otos and is not doing as well. I spread it out more, it's all in the foreground, mostly on the left and right where there is more room, but I can't really say it's been growing. I've seen more death than growth. The pieces that have been undisturbed seem dormant.

I am trying to think of a replacement for the rocks in the middle of the tank, something that is aesthetically pleasing, while at the same time having just as many, if not more hiding spaces for the fish.


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

*Another update.*

It's been a little while since I've updated.

I've done some changes to the tank very recently, but I haven't taken a photo yet (I want to remove some excess mulm, scrape the green spot algae off and clean up a bit in the tank). I do have a photo from last month with the new additions.










Unfortunately, I've been having a lot more problems lately. My BGA problem has returned, and it loves L. sessiliflora, M. tenerum and the HC, essentially ruining and frequently killing my favourite plants in the tank. I remove it every day, but it's hard to keep a handle on and I'm sick of seeing it. I'm dosing phosphates now to get a handle on the green spot. My nitrates are at good levels (fluctuating between 5 to 15ppm, that's post and pre water change, respectively), so I'm figuring it's the fact that I'm seeing deficiencies in the plants, most likely iron (pale new growth, almost white, with greenish veins if the plant has veins), that's causing the BGA to get the edge in on my plants.


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## Dave B (Feb 20, 2004)

I have a feeling that your puffers will love your shrimp...for lunch. With a side salad of Microsorum pteropus. Maybe the other critters as appetizers. 
A friend of mine has had a puffer for 9 years now. Way beyond it's life expectancy, and it eats every organic matter that has ever been introduced into the tank, including other puffers. It even chomps on plastic plants. His name is Frank and he has a big chomping tooth.
Once they become a bit larger they are pretty aggressive. I can't say for sure if it is the same species as yours, and I'm certainly not a puffer expert, but his started smaller than an inch and is probably 4 or 5 inches long now. I would be careful about spending money on a lot of expensive fish and shrimp once the puffers get bigger.
Good luck with your tank.


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

Dave B said:


> Once they become a bit larger they are pretty aggressive. I can't say for sure if it is the same species as yours, and I'm certainly not a puffer expert, but his started smaller than an inch and is probably 4 or 5 inches long now. I would be careful about spending money on a lot of expensive fish and shrimp once the puffers get bigger.


Definitely not the same species. These are dwarf puffers and get to a max of 1" - 1 1/2". They have no taste for shrimp, so far. They picked a bit at a dead ghost shrimp (of unrelated causes), but they spit that back out. Actually, they don't like to eat much of anything besides snails and a bit of clam meat.

The shrimp are an algae cleaning crew, along with the otos. Otherwise, this is strictly a puffer tank. No other fish are going to be in this tank.

I've done a fair bit of research on puffers and not once have I heard of a dwarf making a snack out of plants.

The various different species of puffer have vastly different sizes and levels of aggression.



> A friend of mine has had a puffer for 9 years now. Way beyond it's life expectancy, and it eats every organic matter that has ever been introduced into the tank, including other puffers.


Way beyond? Sounds unlikely, these fish are rather long lived if kept as individual specimens. Most of the 2"+ puffers can live 10-15 years, if not longer.

If you'd like to know more about various puffers, you could take a gander at The Puffer Forum.


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## AFK (Mar 8, 2006)

the middle rocks need to go. the different coloration and placement looks VERY unnatural and contrived. keep the same kind of rocks instead.


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## RTR (Oct 28, 2005)

GekkoGeck0 is correct. DPs stay small and are not terribly long lived, but they have not been in the trade long enough for us to have good figures yet. They are also the easiest to breed puffer know to the hobby. They do show variable aggression or hunger with shrimp. Mine do not even bother Rednose Redtailed shrimp, nor Amanos, nor Ghosts. Their favorite sleep spots are inside bushy plants.

Slightly larger puffers live much longer. My F-8s average upper teens. Most puffers in captivity, like many Cichlids, are quite long-lived. They are not up there with Clown loaches, but are quite hardy when properly housed and fed.


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## Dave B (Feb 20, 2004)

Huh, well there you go. My friend with the puffer named Frank will be disappointed to hear that his attack puffer could live a much longer life. I thought he said it was a dwarf but I must be mistaken. He's been waiting for it to die so he could start a planted tank. I'll let him know that he may have a while to wait and that he shouldn't hold his breath. Until then, it will have to be a steady diet of plastic plants and nanas for old Frank.


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

*Update May 2nd, recovery from severe iron deficiency.*

Well, here's an update after a while.

I rearranged the driftwood and removed the rocks. Left the cave, because I'm hoping to be able to do something with it, I'd love to get the thing covered in java moss, but the java moss I have now is a very small amount and is _the_ debris/mulm attractor in the tank. It's like a magnet or something, worse than the cladophora.

The tank took a nosedive a few months ago for a lack of iron (and probably a bunch of other stuff as well). BGA choked out my lovely growths of Pellia (that plant's like a weed, though, I still have plenty left that escaped to grow elsewhere, I tied what I could find to a rock with mesh), attacked my L. sessiliflora and slimed the HC. BBA grew on a lot of other stuff, equipment, plants. Mostly equipment, but it favoured the cladophora for some reason when it did decide to grow on non-equipment/rocks/gravel. I described a lot of what was going on in this thread.

The tank is now dosed daily with Flourish Excel and Flourish Iron, it gets a few drops of Fleet 3x a week, and Flourish 2x a week.

Without further adieu, however, here is the little aquarium (and plants!) that could:










The white mass in the lower right hand corner is pre-frozen, thawed romaine lettuce for the otos tied to a pebble (the shrimp find it tasty, too).


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## aquasox (Sep 11, 2005)

Looks like it has good potential. Should fill in quite nicely

Are you planning to leave a bit of substrate bare or are you going to add back HC or some other low growing foreground plant?


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

*Strong growth is finally starting.*

Here's the tank as it stands today:










BGA broke out again a few days ago. I attributed it to excessive organic buildup (uneaten clam bits that the puffers hide on me), so I took a day to uproot everything, vacuum the gravel, strip the remaining damaged growth from the plants, and replant. It's clearing up quickly.



aquasox said:


> Are you planning to leave a bit of substrate bare or are you going to add back HC or some other low growing foreground plant?


HC is already there. There's the C. parva and C. x willisii as well. I have crazy otocinclus that freak out when I turn on the lights and have a bad habit of uprooting the patches of HC in their panic, so it's not spreading fast at all. I'm going to try to buy more, again. Nothing's growing very fast in that arena, anyway.

I have lots of java ferns I don't want, though.  Planning to give them away or sell them here locally for cheap, and replace them with some of the Windelov variety. I want more Anubias b. v. nana and nana 'Petite', too.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Very nice. Progressively better each time. This latest update is the best I think. Duing your next big scape, consider moving the hardscape from center and angling it on of the sides to give the tank more depth perception. Any close ups of your puffers? 

Keep up the good work,

-John N.


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

John N. said:


> Very nice. Progressively better each time. This latest update is the best I think. Duing your next big scape, consider moving the hardscape from center and angling it on of the sides to give the tank more depth perception.


I'm not sure what you mean by that, exactly. I'd give it a try, I'm just not understanding which way/how to angle things.

Moving stuff left or right is a bit difficult, I have two Crypts on either side of the tank that would be mighty angry if I disturbed them. The C. parva I _might_ still be able to move (on the left), since it was recently planted, but the C. x willisii is firmly in there.

I was thinking of replacing the cave with some sort of triangular rock, with or without holes in it, as a place for fishies to hide and as an anchor for rhizome-based plants. I've had dismal success with attaching java moss, or keeping pellia growing on it with netting, I want something I can throw some plants on.



> Any close ups of your puffers?


Ask and ye shall receive:

Gumdrop, the newest addition:









Tiki and Ivy (Tiki's the smallest):









I have not had huge success with dwarf puffers. It's very hard to get them to eat, at least in my experience, and I've had two die from accidental causes. Still, once they're eating, they're great non-community fish.


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

Well, I tried rearranging the hardscape a bit, as suggested.










Good? Bad? Contstructive criticism welcome, as usual.


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

*Update.*










Things are moving along nicely, although now that the plants are getting their iron, I'm experiencing a nitrogen deficiency.  At least the tank doesn't look like a rotting wasteland anymore.

I am still waiting for Hygrophila difformis to complete my stem plants in the background. More HC and perhaps more C. Parva/x willisii to fill out the foreground... Some HM would probably be fun too, in the midground somewhere.

Still working on replacing the cave with some sort of lava rock. Haven't found one I like yet at the LFS.

Again, comments and constructive criticism welcome.


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## aquariageek (May 27, 2006)

GekkoGeck0 said:


> I have not had huge success with dwarf puffers. It's very hard to get them to eat, at least in my experience, and I've had two die from accidental causes. Still, once they're eating, they're great non-community fish.


Have you attempted giving them frozen blood-worms?? I have had them eating frozen bloodworms, and they love them!


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

aquariageek said:


> Have you attempted giving them frozen blood-worms?? I have had them eating frozen bloodworms, and they love them!


Of course. I've tried many different varieties of frozen and freeze dried foods. Live foods are generally not available in my area, except for microworms, which would be too small.


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## aquariageek (May 27, 2006)

GekkoGeck0 said:


> Of course. I've tried many different varieties of frozen and freeze dried foods. Live foods are generally not available in my area, except for microworms, which would be too small.


Okay, I figured- but just checking because I saw you are in Canada and I know that the food types availible vary.


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

It's been a _long_ time and a long, hard road with this tank.

I am of the personal opinion that BBA is nothing in the face of a completely uncontrollable BGA outbreak. BBA I can blast with Flourish Excel and be rid of; BGA hangs on for dear life.

I think I finally have it under control. [-o<

That's why the huge gap in my posting time. Most of the time, there was literally nothing to post except a tank full of languishing, rotting plants covered in green slime.

A factor that may have ultimately lead to the demise of the BGA was a light upgrade, an extra 10 watts in total.

The tank is now actively growing with few problems, aside from the deficiency symptoms I'm seeing appear on older leaves (holes in the leaves with a gradual yellowing and then die off of the leaf), which mainly happens when I forget to throw in my Flourish doses.

I'm currently experimenting with not using Flourish Excel daily to see how the tank does without it (mostly out of budgetary concerns, I want to buy it the biggest bottle I can find so I don't have to buy again for a while, but that'll have to wait, the other animals need their food this paycheque.  )

I finally got a hold of H. difformis and am experimenting with it. It refused to grow under my older lighting, but it exploded as soon as I upgraded.

The tank's an aquascaping mess for the most part, since I haven't really spent much time thinking about where to put what... Defeating the BGA took up all my mental time. Now I'm just happy it's growing. 

The tank, today.










Any suggestions, constructive criticism and the like are welcome. Compliments, too, if there's anything to compliment.


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## cassiusclay (Feb 19, 2007)

i think it looks pretty good for just "throwing" plants in there i too know the horrors of BGA ive torn down a tank due to it.good to see your stuff growing and you being happy with it Good Luck


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## Markl (Apr 30, 2007)

Glad to hear you are over your BGA issues


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Congrats on your success! As far as comments regarding the 'scape, start working on a deliniation between foreground and background.


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## marke14 (Mar 27, 2007)

OK I had to Google this: Neocaridina denticulata sinensis = RCS (red cherry shrimp), right?

How are the dwarf puffers getting along w/ the shrimp? I am dying to hear!

Also, I have read that shrimp of all varieties prefer the lower temps. I keep my tank at about 78 F (~25.5 C), and have been hesitant to add shrimp to the mix because a) I figured my dwarf puffers would eat them, and b) I thought the water was too warm for them.

Any thoughts?


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

marke14 said:


> OK I had to Google this: Neocaridina denticulata sinensis = RCS (red cherry shrimp), right?


Indeed. I try to keep to Latin for scientific names to avoid confusion. It's more obscure, but that way, no one's confused as to what I'm referring to. 



> How are the dwarf puffers getting along w/ the shrimp? I am dying to hear!


I am one of the lucky ones. I have Amano shrimp and cherries, and the puffers will actually keep out of their way. Had a shrimp steal a blackworm right out of a puffer's mouth at feeding time and everything.

That said, no one always gets relatively peaceful puffers like mine. On another forum I frequent, a woman cannot keep her dwarf puffers with anything else but the puffers currently in the tank. They massacre everything.

It's really a lot like rolling the dice. Some puffers do fine in community/non-conspecific settings, others don't.



> Also, I have read that shrimp of all varieties prefer the lower temps. I keep my tank at about 78 F (~25.5 C), and have been hesitant to add shrimp to the mix because a) I figured my dwarf puffers would eat them, and b) I thought the water was too warm for them.


I can't always control how warm my place gets, so the tank can occasionally rise up into the low to mid 80s. The shrimp don't appear to care one way or the other.

If you're worried about trying your dwarves with shrimp, buy two or three ghost shrimp. If they stay unbothered for a few months in the tank, then move up to cherries. If they get slaughtered, well... That'll give you an idea.


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