# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Rena Filstar Filters



## Mike K (Mar 27, 2003)

Has anyone had any problems with the Filstar's XP3 filters filling up with air. I have two of them, and I am not happy at all. I have one running my reactor and one just filtering the tank. They both get air trapped inside. I have not idea how to fix it. I am about to get rid of them for a very good price.

Mike K.


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## Mike K (Mar 27, 2003)

Has anyone had any problems with the Filstar's XP3 filters filling up with air. I have two of them, and I am not happy at all. I have one running my reactor and one just filtering the tank. They both get air trapped inside. I have not idea how to fix it. I am about to get rid of them for a very good price.

Mike K.


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## 2la (Feb 3, 2003)

Describe your entire plumbing setup: Is the reactor on the input or output side of the filter? It needs to be on the output side. If it's already there, you have a defective filter (check the O-ring) as that's NOT the norm. They run quiet and they run strong.

P.S. Post only once!









 
(Click for pics)

[This message was edited by 2la on Mon June 02 2003 at 07:03 PM.]


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## Mike K (Mar 27, 2003)

2la,
I don't have the problem with the one that is running my reactor. I have the problem with the one running regular. It is just like how the direction say to set it up. The one that is running the reactor is the new one (Less then a month old), the one running regular is about five months old. Last night I change the microfloss, cleaned out the #2 and #3 sponges, changed the Marineland White Diamond media, and rinsed out the crushed coral on the regular one. I did this b/c it was blowing bubbles. I cleaned out the stainer and still the filter is some how attracting air. I do not know what else to do. It is really getting to me. If you look at the filter canister, near the top where the pump housing attaches to the canister there is about inch that is all air. Any suggestions. I unplug the filter, and with the tubes attach I unlock the side and let water over flow making all the air get out. I am thinking about selling both of them and getting two of the fluval 404. I have a fluval 304 in my oscar tank and it works great.

Mike K.


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## 2la (Feb 3, 2003)

How long are the input and output tubings? If they're excessively long, you'll form loops that will trap air that will be difficult to evacuate. You have to hold a section of the tubing so that the air bubble rises to the top of the held section and kind of work your way upwards so that the air progresses up the tubing back toward the tank, whether it be on the intake or outtake side. You should get a fairly prolonged gurgling as the air is evacuated and the tubing fills with a rush of water. Hard to describe--I'll see if I can snap a picture of the process tomorrow if needed.

Have you also tried opening up the cap at the top of the intake strainer and using the funnel to fill the intake tubing with water?

 
(Click for pics)


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## Mike K (Mar 27, 2003)

The tubing is straigth down and straigth up. There is no air in the tubing. It worked on it last night and it seemed to work, then this mroning, more bubbles. So i turned it off, shook the canister and noticed several air bubbles coming up from the bottom of the canister. So where, the stainer is sucking air in. Maybe to much pearling. I am going to rearrange this filter today to see it that works. Thanks

Mike K.


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## 2la (Feb 3, 2003)

Last shot, Mike, and I don't mean to insult your intelligence in any way: Check the top media chamber cover. Is it right side up? If not, you'll have problems. I speak from experience!









Barring all this, you've got a defective unit.

 
(Click for pics)


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

You might be suprised by this, but check your intake elbow. If there is a crack in it from pushing the 90degree into the elbow too hard it will draw air in from there. Also check to make sure the cap is tight, and the seal is not missing(white thing in the inside of the cap).


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## jpmtotoro (Feb 13, 2003)

i second 2la's post. i actually did that when i set it up and spent a loooong time trying to figure out what was wrong. if that stupid square plastic piece is in the wrong way, the whole thing won't work. it's very easy to put this in backwards, so check it out. if you're sure it's in the right way, then you might wanna start looking for gracks or whatever.

JP


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## Mike K (Mar 27, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> If there is a crack in it from pushing the 90degree into the elbow too hard it will draw air in from there. Also check to make sure the cap is tight, and the seal is not missing(white thing in the inside of the cap).


Nope no crack, and the white seal is there. I just checked it. Any other suggestions?



> quote:
> 
> Check the top media chamber cover. Is it right side up?


Nope, just check it. Opened it up, reposition it and I will wait til morning. But I just heard the bubbles coming back. Any other suggestions. What is the warranty on these things?

Mike K.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

I will tell you a bit of a story, might explain what is going on. 

I have my C02 reactor running on the intake side of my canister. Originally I was told this was a bad idea and that I should run it on the outake.

I started building up gas in the reactor so I figured there was a buildup of C02. I run a slow bublle rate about 1 per second, and the C02 is not all that high, maybe 25ish JUST before the lights come on. Turned out this was wrong. If it was C02 it would build up at night when the plants were not sucking it up. Since it builds during the day mostly, someone suggested that it is Oxygen. So I figure well whatever, I should have done like I was told and set up the reactor on the output. So I switched it. 

Well guess what. The gas still built up, but now in the filter causing it to airlock. I use a Eheim BTW. Soooo now I figure damn and move the reactor back after spending $20 on new hose. So what is going on here.

During the day the plants are ALWAYS pearling, more namely there are streams and streams of bubbles running from the plants to the surface. So what I think happens is the water becomes saturated with oxygen, from all the pearling, and this water is in turn drawn into the filter mechanism, where in turn it comes under pressure, forcing the oxygen back into the gas state, displacing water from the reactor. However despite how full of air the reactor gets, my C02 levels do not waver. 

Important note though, if I don't vent the air, it will buildup to the point it fills the hose running into the filter and pushes air into the filter. Air lock.

So if it is Oxygen, you would think when the plants start sucking up the oxygen at night, this would cause the gas in the reactor to get taken back into solution and the reactor would fill with water again but this does not happen. All I can do is vent the reactor every couple of days.

Since your runnign your reactor on the output side of your filter, maybe this is what is happening to you as well?

On a side note regarding the water level in your canister. The water level should be at the bottom of the motor head. So you should see a bit of air around the sides of the motor head. This shows that the filter is running at 100% efficiency (no bypass). If this gap becomes filled with water, that means water is bypassing the filter media and you need to clean it, or there is too much restriction from the media.


If you think the problem is not what I described earlier:

How deep is the intake in the water?

All of this failing:

Call Rena and tell them what is going on, they are VERY good with warranties. The rep does not even come and question us about it. We usually get the credit and throw the unit in question in the garbage. HTH and GL


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## Mike K (Mar 27, 2003)

The problem that i am having is not on the reactor filter but on the regular filter. I changed everything, even swapped the housing out with the oterh XP3 that i have. Still the filter is sucking in air. I think the quick dissconnect valve is leaking. So I emailed Rena, and Called them. No word on it yet. 

The intake is about two iniches off the bottom and it is located behind a piece of diftwood. I can watch the water enter the stainer and i know no air is getting in. So there is either a crack in the inlet, that i can not find or the quick connect valve is leaking.

Mike K.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

If you can see air bubbles comming down from the inlet elbow through the hose into the canister then the elbow is leaking. If there are no air bubbles comming down the hose into the unit, then it has to be the quick disconnect valves.

I have had 2 units come back with leaking quick disconect valves that had absolutely not apparent damage but where leaking. I am guessing this has to be the source...


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

I had a similar thing happen that Justin604 experienced. I have a prefilter on my Eheim classic and when it starts to get clogged up the negative pressure from the pump sucking water through it actually draws oxygen out of the water and accumulates as little bubbles throughout the media in the canister and finally works it's way up to the pump and purps back out. Perhaps something similar is happening to you. Try to restrict the water from the output tube, this will reduce the suction on the intake side. Perhaps try it overnight and see if it helps any. I wonder if this is why some canisters have a larger intake tube. Same thing happens to me if I restrict the flow from the inlet valve instead of the outlet.

Hope it helps, worth a try
Giancarlo Podio


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Giancarlo,

What you experianced was a common problem in some of the old higher output Eheims, which is why, like you said, they have larger diameter input hose to lower pressure.

This only becomes a real problem if the canister airlocks, which is why you will noticed the Classic series has a built in "air chanel" to chanel air past the impeller to prevent it from airlocking. One could try to restrict the output flow using the quick release valves, and see if this helps reduce the pressure.


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

Yep, I have never had the Eheim airlock on me but I have no experience with the Rena filters so perhaps they don't cope as well with air. I wonder if Mike's having a similar thing happen in his filter. I also have a little duetto that I use for occasional chemical filtration, I use a micron pad as a pre-filter and you can really see the bubbles appear out of nowhere inside the clear plastic media container.

Giancarlo Podio


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## Mike K (Mar 27, 2003)

Giancarlo,
I have narrowed it down to two things. Either the quick connect valve is leaking or there is to much air in the tank during the day because of all the pearling. I don't have the problem with my XP3 that is hooked up to the reactor. That would make your theory correct because there is less pressure on the output b/c it has to go through the reactor before it enters the tank. During the day, when there is alot of pearling going on, I can see small bubbles inside the canister. When i move the canister around, I can see more air bubbles coming up inside. I am thinking that air bubbles are being trapped inside during the day and building up until there is to much of them and they are released into the tank. If this is correct how would I decrease the pressure on the outtake side. And another question, can I just use the one XP3 filter, which is running the reactor, to filter my tank? The tank is 100 gallon heavily planted.

Mike K.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Mike,

You have a WAY overfiltered tank. No worries removing the second Xp-3. They are each capable of a 170g tank.


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

Then it sounds to me like this is exactly what is happening to you. Restrict the output hose of the filter you are having problems with and see if that stops the O2 from being "sucked" out of the water. Obviously the problem will manifest itself when there is more O2 in the water than when there is less, I wouldn't however blame it on "too much O2 in water", I'd still point the finger at too much negative pressure leading up to the pump, play around with it a little and you'll get rid of the problem if infact this is what is happening. Another possible cause is too much filter media (or clogged media, too restrictive), this can also slow down the water flow too much and cause the exact same problem.

Hope that helps
Giancarlo Podio


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