# Turning 55 gal goldfish tank into NPT



## abnormalsanon (Jun 6, 2006)

I've had a 55 gallon goldfish tank up and running for about 8 months now. This is my third (failed) attempt at planting this tank over about the past 2-3 years in two separate homes/locations. No matter how heavily I plant with "easy" plants or what lighting/fertilization regimen I try, it ends up looking awful. I have tried everything from high-tech (CO2 injection, ferts, weekly water changes) to low tech (just lights, a heater, and a filter) with the same results. I've managed to stunt and/or kill just about anything, including moss, hygro (yes, HYGRO!), and anubias. The narrow leaf java fern and a couple of crypts are the only plants that are still doing okay. 

The tank shows all the symptoms of not getting enough lighting--brown algae and stunting/withering. But this makes no sense because I've got 130 watts over it for 7 hours a day, plus it gets a little sunlight from an east-facing window. The goldies don't seem to bother the plants other than the occasional nibble. I have no idea what's wrong. I have a 30 gallon heavily planted tank that is doing fine, so I don't think it's just me!

Thanks if you made it this far  I feel like my only option at this point is to try a NPT and I am looking for some guidance. I have very little money and imagine I will spend $50-100 on plants alone. I'd like to ask you experts if it would be feasible to convert the tank to a NPT with the equipment I already have, or what other recommendations you'd make. Here's what I've got:

-55gal open top acrylic tank (unfortunately makes algae scraping difficult)
-2 Eheim 2213s 
-130w PC lighting @ 7hrs
-heater set between 65-68 F
-plain old gravel and some play sand

-2 small fantails
-1 weather loach
-readily available apple snails, ramshorns, and MTS
-I'd like to add white cloud minnows but won't until the tank is healthy

Now, I know I'd need to get rid of the play sand and replace some of the gravel with soil, right? But other than that and a ton of new plants, is there anything else I'd need to add? I really appreciate any input/advice you can provide!


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

I have not had good luck with fancy goldies in NPTs. They are not hardy fish and I've ended up pulling them each time I've tried to house them in NPTs because of them acting off. I have had great luck with potting plants in topsoil in goldie tanks with about 2 watts per gallon and no water ferts or CO2. There's a pic of my old 55 goldie tank in the how-to article below.
http://thegab.org/Articles/PottedPlants.html

Ramshorn snails are great for eating brown algae and they're a bonus in goldie tanks, because the goldies eat the smaller snails that can fit in their mouth. So the large snails munch on algae and the smaller snails serve as a continuous source of live food.


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## abnormalsanon (Jun 6, 2006)

Thanks so much for the advice. Ya know, I've never tried potted plants. I think this is what I'll do and see what happens. I'll be sure to let you know.


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

Cool. 

If you look around the GAB site you'll see lots of examples of goldie tanks with potted plants.

Here's a couple of pics of the end view of my 120


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## Mud Pie Mama (Jul 30, 2006)

Hi Betty! Your goldfish look really happy and healthy. What temp do you keep your 120 at? 

I'm wondering if some of OP - abnormalsanon - diffuculty w/ the planted goldy tank maybe the lower water temps. I know most plants will grow much better around 74F. 65-68F is probably causing some of the stunting problems. I know that the fancy goldies can be kept at slightly higher temps than the plain comets and such. Even if you brought the temp up to 70 - 72F there would probably be improvement in growth for the plants.


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## Hubert (Feb 2, 2008)

This isn't an NPT as it doesn't have a soil substrate, uses a filter and there are some water changes. However, it does have plants in it and it does have goldfish! IMO (and I'm no expert), the difficulty with NPT and goldfish is twofold. Firstly they're hungry buggers and eat a lot, I'm not sure how many goldfish you could keep in an NPT. Secondly, they like to forage on the aquarium floor and tend to uproot plants. Replanting in a gravel only substrate is pretty straightforward, constantly replanting in a soil substrate is not so easy...

Personally I prefer a more natural look, so have moved away from potted plants. You can do goldfish with plants, just takes a bit more work and have to choose plants they don't like to eat. Just my two cents worth


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## owenj (Jan 8, 2008)

Abnormalsanon, I agree with Mud Pie Mama about increasing the heat in your tank. Fancy goldies can & should be kept up in the mid to high 70s. Check out the GAB site that Dataguru posted; it's excellent. You say that your goldies leave your plants alone for the most part, which will make an npt easier if they don't root around in the gravel too much. I know mine love to harass plants .
~Jaime


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## Hubert (Feb 2, 2008)

Abnormalsanon, looking at your original post again, I think a 7 hour photoperiod might not be enough. Is your 30g tank, lit for 7 hours as well? It could be the additional waste from the goldfish means this tank needs a slightly longer photoperiod for the plants to use up the nutrients.


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

Yea, I keep my fancy goldies in the mid 70s. I think since i feed them mainly fresh foods and homemade gel food (mackerel, greens, etc) they get plenty of veggies, which they like much better than most plants (with the exception of duckweed). There are gel food recipes in the GAB sidebar and lots of good fresh food ideas in the diner.

I like the potted plants cuz I can put them in other tanks to give them time to root well... and the rocks on top keep the goldies from digging up the plants and scattering gravel everywhere. It also keeps them from getting a faceful of gasses from rooting in the substrate. My goldie tanks are mainly bare bottom to minimize debris in the tank since they're such big poopheads. If you did try a NPT for goldies, you'd definitely need to give it time for the plants to get established and give the substrate time to stop gassing out H2S. I think you'd still need good mechanical filtration unless it was very understocked. and you'd definitely need a hospital tank or somewhere else to pull them to if they don't tolerate it. 

Fancies are not hardy fish and have many health problems because they have been inbred for external characteristics for so long with no regard for robustness or longevity.


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## abnormalsanon (Jun 6, 2006)

I wanted to update this thread after a long hiatus from APC. I am down to one small fantail and one weather loach in my 55 gal tank. The tank setup is about 11 months old now, and for the first time everything has stabilized and it looks healthy. The brown algae and green spot algae I battled for so long has disappeared, the narrow leaf java fern went nuts, and the crypts are doing just fine too. It's not a fancy or purposefully scaped tank by any means, but I think it has a nice, natural look to it. It's very low-tech now. I'm no longer dosing ferts or running CO2, and only doing water changes about once a month. I'm down to one Eheim 2213 filter. I hate to say this because he was such a great fish, but when my big comet passed away, the health of the tank suddenly improved. The only problem I'm still having is some algae build-up at the front of the tank under the substrate surface--probably the result of too much sunlight. I want to add a school of minnows, but I'm afraid to change anything! Haha.


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## Shurik (Mar 22, 2008)

Oh WOW! I am so happy to find this thread – I just set up 50 gal common gold fish tank. 
Actually I don’t know exactly what they are but they are definitely not fancy at all.
Abnormalsanon, your tank looks great, I love your scape and fish. 

Can you please tell me what is this light colored substrate you used to cap everything else? 

I can’t find pool filter sand, the pool filter industry moved on to silica sand, I guess. 

My worries are my fish constantly takes everything into their mouth and spits it out. I got eco-complete and some desert sand I just replaced and it looks lousy without the sand. 
Should I cap eco-complete with some bigger size gravel so they will not choke on it? Should I not use sand at all? Is eco-complete an OK substrate to use? They've been living with it for about two month... 
I got too many questions!  Sorry to pop in!


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## abnormalsanon (Jun 6, 2006)

Shurik said:


> Oh WOW! I am so happy to find this thread - I just set up 50 gal common gold fish tank.
> Actually I don't know exactly what they are but they are definitely not fancy at all.
> Abnormalsanon, your tank looks great, I love your scape and fish.


Thank you! Trust me, it did not look good a few months ago...it's been a long road.



Shurik said:


> Can you please tell me what is this light colored substrate you used to cap everything else?


I started out last July with Aquasoil covered in a layer of pea gravel in the middle "island," surrounded by regular play sand. Of course the loach and goldies tossed the stuff everywhere, so now the gravel and sand have mixed a lot, but I kind of like the look of it. The Aquasoil has remarkably stayed in place in the center under the gravel.



Shurik said:


> My worries are my fish constantly takes everything into their mouth and spits it out. I got eco-complete and some desert sand I just replaced and it looks lousy without the sand.
> Should I cap eco-complete with some bigger size gravel so they will not choke on it? Should I not use sand at all? Is eco-complete an OK substrate to use? They've been living with it for about two month...


I think it depends on the individual fish, really. My big comet (RIP, Leroy!) loved to eat/spit out everything, but my remaining little guy doesn't do much digging/mouthing. I would probably replace the Eco Complete if you can, since it has sharp pieces in it. And of course, watch for any obstruction, and remove from their mouths carefully with tweezers if needed. I've found Eco Complete and sand to be a real mess when you have fish who like to dig. My 30 gal tropical tank has this mixture, and the corycats throw stuff around so much that I have to replace the sand every few months to keep it looking neat and clean.

If you do a search for "goldfish" on here, you'll probably find quite a few threads about planted tanks with goldies. You won't be able to get a neatly scaped and manicured tank with goldfish (at least not in my experience), but after many tries and a lot of patience, I have managed to get a decent looking setup running smoothly. The funny thing is, it's when I stopped doing any maintenance and basically gave up that the tank finally stabilized  Good luck!

Oh and I should add--if you use playsand, be sure to rinse it very carefully to get rid of all the dust. Otherwise the water surface will have a gross yellow film for a week or so.


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## Shurik (Mar 22, 2008)

Thank you for your reply, dear Abnormalsanon! I am so sorry you lost Leroy! 
For how long did you have him?

I guess a lot of things do depend on individuality of the fish, even though it might sound strange, but two of my fishies acts like they are different species, just like you said, they are different. Hagrid is up to long distance speed swimming and he does it 24 hours a day. H.P. (Hagrid's Pet) is constantly "gardening" and won't quit taking care of my planting. :heh:

I definitely need to do a lot of reading and thinking, will try play sand, I know the quality and consistency of it varies in different regions and I'll think about eco-complete. So far I had no problem with it, but it makes me very nervous. I don't know if I can remove it, I guess I have to redo the entire tank to get rid of it. 
Here is a little video of my struggle, I know one picture worth a thousand words. It comes with the sound 






P.S. Can someone tell me what kind of a fish I have? :lol:


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

abnormalsanon said:


> I've had a 55 gallon goldfish tank up and running for about 8 months now. This is my third (failed) attempt at planting this tank over about the past 2-3 years. No matter how heavily I plant with "easy" plants or what lighting/fertilization regimen I try, it ends up looking awful. I've got 130 watts over it for 7 hours. QUOTE]
> 
> 7 hours/day is not long enough for any aquatic plant. The recommended photoperiod (i.e., daylength) for aquarium plants is 12-13 hours (Christel Kasselmann, _Aquarium Plants_, 2003).
> 
> In the past, I've always used 10-14 hr. Now I use 14 hr but with a 4 hr "Siesta" between noon and 4:00 PM. That way, the lights are only on 10 hours, but the effective daylength is 14 hours. Works great, so far....


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## jaylynne51 (Mar 18, 2008)

Shurik, thanks for the youtube! It's one of the better ones that I've seen. I'm getting ready to start a 100 gal. planted tank with ryukins(eventually) and am still in the researching stage. I'm definately going to "stay tuned."


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## ericpop27 (May 13, 2008)

I was under the impression that play sand is poisonous for a tank. I have All Purpose Sand in my tank. Cheap, available anywhere. It just has to be cleaned very thoroughly to get it looking nice and light coloured.

I love the layout of your tank! So many people say to off center things, but I prefer things to be symmetrical.


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