# Another Question Regarding BBA



## riseabovethesun (Jul 15, 2010)

Water paramters:
temp: 76-78F
CO2: 28-30ppm
pH: 7.4
Nitrite: 0ppm
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrate: 5ppm

Lighting schedule: 8-10 hours
Lights: 2 65watt, 6700K (only one of the lights is turned on though)

It's a 36 gallon bowfront, heavily planted (at least 10 different species of plants in the tank, eco-complete substrate)
Inhabitants have changed to: 4 corydoras, a school of cardinal tetras, a few varieties of shrimp and two dwarf frogs

Awhile ago I had a BBA issue, no idea how it came, no idea how it left, but it did. Now it is back again and even full force. I've asked around a bit, read a bit and am now wondering if you guys have any suggestions. I've read some people suggested more aeration, which I had a TON of aeration then came across an article that said BBA thrived much better in aerated water, so I removed my powerhead and left the crazy spraybar. Which surprisingly, everywhere that the powerhead or spraybar hit, had BBA, any other area that wasn't hit does not have BBA.

I've tried more light, less light. I've tried a little less CO2, a little more CO2. Tried changing the temperature a hair. Did more water changes, less water changes. Etc. Of course, I did one step at a time to figure out what was out of balance, never figuring it out.

Are there any suggestions? I notice a lot of recommendations are to use some type of fertilizer? How well does that work with fish and shrimp in a tank? Shrimp I know are a bit more sensitive, so that's one thing I struggle with when needing to use ferts. Or any other suggestions for the lighting or anything in general. I know the cause of BBA is a tough one to figure out, but I'm hoping to at least find something that might help better than what I've tried.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Mercedes,

I wish I know the cause of BBA. I have read it is due to low CO2 levels but I have two tanks, both with the same CO2 ppm and one will get BBA occasionally and the other not.

If it does occur, I start by cleaning my filters and doing a 50% water change. I double check my CO2 level and change the solution in my drop checker if it has been over 30 days. I do my EI dosing as usual but I also add Excel. When I do the water change it do the "Initial" dose as directed. As for the "Daily" dose, I dose at 2X the recommended rate. This may or may not work for you with shrimp in your tank.

If you cannot dose the whole tank with Excel, and you have just a small outbreak, you could try "spot" treatment with Excel or H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide). I make sure the lights have been one for at least two hours so the plants (and BBA) are at maximum photosynthesis.  I turn off my filters and allow the tank to sit for 5 minutes so there are no currents.I fill a oral dosing syringe with Excel or H2O2 and "shoot" the BBA tufts individually. After I finish with the syringe I wait 5 minutes to allow the chemical to have maximum contact time with the algae and then turn on the pumps and filters.


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## bosmahe1 (May 14, 2005)

riseabovethesun said:


> Water paramters:
> temp: 76-78F
> CO2: 28-30ppm
> pH: 7.4
> ...


Your light is still on the high side so make sure you are dosing regularly. Dosing EI is the simplest method in my opinion. Do a search on Estimative Index. Keep your CO2 as high as your animals allow and keep it as consistent as possible. I think fluctuations is the trigger that causes the bloom of BBA.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

I have found that at least 2 parameters need to be out of whack for BBA. Your nitAte is low. Bump it up slowly to 30 to 40 ppm. Prune affected plants ruthlessly and keep ornaments clean by boiling and or bleaching.


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## joshvito (Apr 6, 2009)

what is your water flow like?
You may be measuring co2 at 28-30ppm, but if you flow is low, you can get pockets of high and low concentrations.


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## riseabovethesun (Jul 15, 2010)

@Joshvito: I have a very strong current in my tank, it was made for some bamboo shrimp I have. I did recently remove the powerhead though because of an article I had read about excessive water flow being a prime candidate for BBA; as in helping it survive/thrive in that area.

@Newt: I've heard on other forums that a heavily planted tank is fine at 5-15 nitrates, so that actually isn't a good idea? Normally it is at 10ppm on my test kit, my LFS tested it and on their chart it read 5ppm. So it's in that 5-10ppm range. I can't imagine my invertebrates or sensitive fish being thrilled about 30-40ppm of nitrates...on a particular shrimp forum people that have bee and crs typically keep their planted tanks at 5ppm, which I have some of those shrimp, so I'm not sure what increasing it would do. Other than that everything has been pruned and cleaned recently and currently.

@Seattle: I will definitely need to check how to go about dosing ferts with the inhabitants in the tank, spot treatment sounds like a pretty good idea. With using H2O2, I imagine you need to remove all the inhabitants from the tank? If so that wouldn't be possible, at least for me to get ALL of them, some would inevitably die. Spot treating with Excel sounds like it would work out better. I think I will work with ferts and see how to go about it that way because I have no issues otherwise. I've just recently had my aponogeton ulvaceus bloom three times and my lace leaf is growing like crazy...it's so hard to have everything going well and to just have that darn algae!

@bosmahe1: I'm thinking of taking the ferts advice from you and Seattle, to work with that and hope that will help. I have read that fluctuations in CO2 can trigger BBA at least as a possible cause, so you're totally right on that, mine has been pretty consistent thankfully and I check it regularly to make sure.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Mercedes,



> @Seattle: I will definitely need to check how to go about dosing ferts with the inhabitants in the tank, spot treatment sounds like a pretty good idea. With using H2O2, I imagine you need to remove all the inhabitants from the tank? If so that wouldn't be possible, at least for me to get ALL of them, some would inevitably die. Spot treating with Excel sounds like it would work out better. I think I will work with ferts and see how to go about it that way because I have no issues otherwise. I've just recently had my aponogeton ulvaceus bloom three times and my lace leaf is growing like crazy...it's so hard to have everything going well and to just have that darn algae!


Actually Hydrogen Peroxide is relatively safe to use in an aquarium. It breaks down very quickly into water and oxygen.


> (2)H2O2 --> 2H2O + O2


I would start small, do just a small patch. I have used 1.5 ml per gallon with fish and plants and neither showed signs of distress. If you used 0.5 ml per gallon maximum (10 gallon tank = 5 ml in the syringe) I do not believe you would see any ill effects.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

How are you determining 28 to 30 ppm CO2? >>> Do you run it 24/7 or turn it on and off?

What's your iron level?

As I said, BBA almost always has to do with 2 things out of whack. High iron + low nitate = BBA; Fluctuating CO2 + low nitrate = BBA. Take one away and the BBA goes away. 5ppm is too low IMO.

You might want to review the Method of Controlled Imbalances sticky in the Algae forum (specifically red algae types).
BTW 30 to 40 ppm is OK for most shrimp in a tank with good filtration and circulation. It doesnt seem to bother my fish or shrimp. Anyone dosing EI would have this level or higher.


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## riseabovethesun (Jul 15, 2010)

@Seattle: Thank you for the information!

@Newt:Is 28-30ppm, stand for %? I'm not super familiar with that. But I have a test kit that lets me test the CO2 levels. My iron is 0, which I get it should be more for my plants but I'm not dosing anything and haven't been, so I wouldn't imagine I'd have iron.

And I'm not saying you were wrong, just saying on a few other forums people always talk about being under around 20ppm, even on here under the invertebrate forum when you have a little bit more of a rare/sensitive shrimp low nitrates are better. But maybe it is low nitrate causing the BBA, so either I should up that or dose the tank.

But I definitely know how it goes with personally experiencing things and having no issues and then other people have problems with the same thing, I have a lot of things like that with my tank.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Sorry....late night post: meant ppm not % on the CO2

You should get a drop checker. Its the only accurate way to determine CO2 concentration.

Even thou you dont dose iron you probably have some in the tap. Its very typical to have 0.1ppm of free iron from the ductile iron pipes and or from the water source. It is free iron in that there is no chelator.

Read the MCI sticky. Not saying you need to stay with that dosing scheme but it will help you rid the tank of BBA.


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## riseabovethesun (Jul 15, 2010)

@Newt: No worries! I just wasn't sure if there was some % thing, it'd make total sense. What exactly is a drop checker? I just have the master test kit (putting the water in the tube and using drops until the colors match). Maybe a link to a drop checker?  OR is that those little gauges...I think I've seen those...

This the other thing I was hoping not to mention because everyone attacks me over it (lol!) I use RO only water, no buffer, no mixing it with tap. Nothing. I understand that RO water has no minerals/nutrients/nada and can cause fluctuations in the water parameters but mine never has. When someone suggested I mix tap or try using a buffer (like RO Right) things in the tank started dying and one of my plants started decaying...so I went back to strictly ONLY RO water and plants began blossoming, shrimp were becoming berried and fish were far more active. It doesn't seem right or normal, but when I try to do it the "right/normal" way things die even though I follow it step by step. And I have used a variety of test kits, a little mini one I bought, then the master test kit I bought, then my local fish store who has a nice API master test kit and it's always the same water parameters anymore.. (liquid tests only, I don't use strips for lack of accuracy)

So, maybe having too soft of water is an issue? I cannot recall exactly but when I had tested the kH it was like...I want to say 8 and the GH was 13 or vice versa. But I'm in a state of refusal to use a buffer or to use tap because everything just dies and I have fish that are at least 2years+ in there, same with plants, shrimp and the whole shabang. But I use tap in my other tanks, perfectly fine..


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Here is a link to a drop checker>>> http://www.fish-street.com/co2_test_kit

You need to get some GH powder. I use a customary blend of calcium, magnesium and manganese sulfate 3:1 ratio. Plants need these minerals. Your lack of magnesium could be partly to blame for the BBA. I dose my iron separate and find there is enough potassium in the KNO3 and potassium phosphate.

ElectroRight is garbage as it uses chlorides instead of sulfates and also has aloe extract which is useless IMO.


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