# Need to use Flourish Tabs when dosing water column?



## MicroMichael (May 7, 2010)

I am planning on starting a planted tank and am still doing research before I actually set up the tank. Is there still a need to use Flourish Tabs in addition to dosing the water column with nutrients? I plan on using the EI or PPS system.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi MicroMichael,

Good to see you "wading in" and getting your feet wet! LOL

I use Flourish Tabs in conjunction with EI dosing. Some of my plants, specifically my various cryptocoryne species and other heavy root feeders, seem to do much better with nutrients in the substrate where their roots are.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

I'd find another root tab. Seachem's have basically nothing of value in them:
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/FlourishTabs.html

Nutrients both in the column and the substrate make for healthier plants. Do both.


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## Andy Ritter (Nov 26, 2008)

Philosophos said:


> I'd find another root tab. Seachem's have basically nothing of value in them:
> http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/FlourishTabs.html
> 
> Nutrients both in the column and the substrate make for healthier plants. Do both.


What do you suggest/use, Philosophos? I've also been using the Flourish Tabs, but have wondered whether I should be using something else. I have even wondered if it would make sense to figure out some way to maybe mix up some of my dry ferts with some clay and make my own.

Andy


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Osmocote original/plus under the substrate before you start it. I think they make bigger pellets with a little injection tool as well. Some people have been doing DIY clay balls, thought I don't know much about that. Apparently clay balls is preferred to the old mud/fert icecube method.

To be honest, I think the stage where someone is posting on this site (or any other major planted tank forum) but don't have a substrate with nutrients and CEC is pretty short. I encourage people to overhaul and get a new substrate for how cheap it can be; most of the time their plants weren't growing well anyhow. I have yet to see an experienced aquarist say, "Gee, I'm just going to give up nutrients and CEC for some epoxy coated gravel."

I think the big hump to get over with newbies is assuring them that setting it up properly will mean no toxicity issues.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Philosophos said:


> I'd find another root tab. Seachem's have basically nothing of value in them:
> http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/FlourishTabs.html
> 
> Nutrients both in the column and the substrate make for healthier plants. Do both.


For a root tab with "basically nothing of value in them" most people find they perform wonderfully. I've tried several other brands that cost much more and the Flourish Root Tab outperforms them hands down. My cyrpts, Apono and swords grow out of the tank.

Root fertilization has different requirements than water column leaf fertilization - but then you know that I'm sure.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

They've got loads of calcium, if you didn't have enough then you will after using them. The SO4 goes right in there since it's CaSO4.

Outside of that though, 2% Fe from the rapidly depleting ferrous gluconate? Less than 1% of anything else? At $7 for enough to do a 20 gal? Seems like a bit of a ripoff to me.


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## psusaxman2000 (Dec 22, 2009)

I have to agree with Newt. For "not having anything in them", my plants seem to love them. I can't say that I've seen much difference in my stem plants, but all of my swords are above and beyond now. In a matter of days I could see a significant change in their growth patters. 

Now for the numbers, I have a 55 gallon tank and only put in 10 tabs a month. I usually place them more towards the swords then the stem plants now. I don't think I'll miss adding them any more.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

A number of members have found them so effective that they break them into smaller pieces. Seachem has had many requests to make them pea sized. I find that a small chunk does well for more than a month even with swords.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi All,

+1 for Newt; I use a large sharp knife and break / cut them into 1/2 or 1/3 the original size. I just re-dose when the plants look like they need some help.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

I find them so hard I use a chisel and hammer. LOL


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

$7 for a few grams, mostly CaSO4, 2% iron. I'm wondering just how anyone could call this significant or cost effective. You can get way more nutrients for way less money.

I'm also wondering how $7 for a few grams is a better deal than buying the constituent compounds ($50 at most shipped if you have none and want it all) plus some clay to have a lifetime supply of these tabs. You could probably cover your cost selling 1/4-1/2 seachem price tabs and make double your money back if that's your thing.

A pound or two of osmocote exact tablets with an analysis that includes hefty levels of NPK plus micros from any lawn contractor will do as well. They're doing entire fields with this stuff; I'm guessing it's going to be a fraction of the cost. 

If you're adding these things to a tank that has a nutrient loaded substrate, a CEC and decent column dosing then you're just wasting your money using any of that. Even with a lean column, mineralized soil should last at least 2 years in a high tech; longer if you do other things to enrich it. A quick look over Diana's analysis work for soil and Tom's ADA AS analysis says enough.

So once again, there's not much in them. They are over priced, and yes you are paying for the word, "aquarium" as happens so often in the hobby. Unless you've got some sort of investment in Seachem then it's really not even worth looking at.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Dan,



Philosophos said:


> $7 for a few grams, mostly CaSO4, 2% iron. I'm wondering just how anyone could call this significant or cost effective. You can get way more nutrients for way less money.


The guaranteed analysis of Seachem Tabs is:
Total Nitrogen 0.28%
Available Phosphate 0.17%
Soluble Potash 0.16%
Calcium 14.9%
Magnesium 0.06%
Sulfur 12.2%
Boron 0.029%
Chlorine 0.55%
Cobalt 0.001%
Copper 0.001%
Iron 2.2%
Manganese 0.23%
Molybdenum 0.0009%
Sodium 0.14%
Zinc 0.0024%

and it is "Derived from: Potassium Chloride, Calcium Chloride, Copper Sulfate, Magnesium Chloride, Ferrous Gluconate, Cobalt Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Boric Acid, Sodium Molybdate, Zinc Sulfate, Protein Hydrolysates."

I count over 10 chemical compounds, please get your facts correct.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

I really dont care what they are made of because they work and a little bit goes a long way.
Thats good enough for me.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm well aware of what the analysis says; I linked to it.

10 chemicals at negligible concentrations. Even the Osmocote tabs offer 10x the micros, and 30x+ the macros in analysis . Are you going to count Cl, Na, Co and S? Credit .06% magnesium (60mg/g, where people dose grams per week) as doing much of anything? Has anyone ever seen a deficiency of the first 4? Many tanks don't even dose these things using products like CSM+B and TMG. And any deficiency fixed by so little Mg? I doubt it. The NPK is even more laughable.

Osmocote Exact Standard High K Tablets:

N 11%
P 4.8%
K 14.9%
Mg 1.2%
Fe .25%
Mn .04%
Cu .056%
Zn .012%
B .01%
Mo .015%

Yup, less Fe... that's about the only place it isn't as high. If you don't like it, make your own; they'll have an even more meaningful analysis at a fraction the cost of seachem's product. The price? Ask your garden store, some guy is breaking them up and selling 750g of the stuff for $25 here: http://www.hybridpoplars.com/prices5.htm

Even that's a better rate than Flourish Root Tabs, and you'll probably get it at 1/2 that price from someone who does lawn care. Once again, DIY would be cheaper still with custom nutrients.


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## Northman (Sep 20, 2009)

+1 Philo


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## The Rockster (Jun 20, 2007)

Philosophos said:


> I'm well aware of what the analysis says; I linked to it.
> 
> 10 chemicals at negligible concentrations. Even the Osmocote tabs offer 10x the micros, and 30x+ the macros in analysis . Are you going to count Cl, Na, Co and S? Credit .06% magnesium (60mg/g, where people dose grams per week) as doing much of anything? Has anyone ever seen a deficiency of the first 4? Many tanks don't even dose these things using products like CSM+B and TMG. And any deficiency fixed by so little Mg? I doubt it. The NPK is even more laughable.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for making me aware that there are better methods of supplying ferts at root levels and are more cost effective...........
I am currently using Osmocoat Plus (more nutrients compared to Seachem) delivered in frozen tank water, at a fraction of the cost of Seachem Flouish Tabs.
Although I like Seachem's products, most aquarists I know, think their fert line is diluted and over priced. However, it is a good starting point for hobbyists. Many never graduate past them, and are quite happy with the results.

I really feel that hobbyists like you are to be commended. Bucking the status quo, defying current beliefs, and marketing hype, your insight into making advancements in aquatics, as well as making it more reasonable for the average person, is not only refreshing but great for the advancement of the hobby.
I look forward to reading your posts not only on this forum but others.


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## Jeffww (May 25, 2010)

Get some pottery clay and use your EI powders and mix them all up. Let them dry then roll another extra thin layer of clay over it and let it dry again to prevent water column leeching. 

Use a ball form 1/2-1" in diameter for large root feeders and and a flat 1/4-1/2" thick plate for carpeting plants. 

For fert I just use a months worth of EI powder (NPK and CSM+B) in every batch of 6 balls or 3 plates.


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## DavidZ (Jan 22, 2009)

THere was a guy Curt Dunaway I think that was selling his own root tabs that were from what people said better and much much cheaper, does anyone know which tabs I talking about.


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Hi,

I only have Cabomba and Hornwort in my two tanks. I have about 40 root tabs from Pfertz and I am wondering if I should use them or not.


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## darkoon (Jun 7, 2010)

I think it largely depends what kind of plants you have, plants with big roots seem to benefit a lot from root tabs while stems don't really care as long as there is enough nutrition in the water column. Personally i don't use any root tab, they seem quite expensive especially if you follow manufactures instruction.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

FWIW, I like Aquariumplants.com TOTAL substrate pellets. They are cheap and work very well. You don't need the inserting tool. You get 75 pellets for $10.99

http://www.aquariumplants.com/AquariumPlants_com_s_own_SUBSTRATE_VITALIZATION_p/fert.htm


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