# Going NPT Tank Soon - Need Advice!



## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

Hi everyone,

Newbie from Phillipines!!!

I been doing my reasearch for I think 6 months now about NPT and I am really excited to setup one.

I currently have a common 75g tank with a overhead trinkle filter 2400l/h pump and powerhead combo and 2 sponge filter. 2pcs 8watts t5 daylight 6500k. When I bought this used tank I initially leaning to put a oscar but after some browsing online I decided that I will go with community /shoaling fish. So after doing a cycle on a bare buttom tank with just couple of driftwood and 4 large river rocks a slowy stock my aquarium with the following fish.

Neon Tetra x10
Rummy Nose Tetra x10
Bronze Corydora x5
Albino Corydora x5
German Blue Ram x2 (pair)

A friend of my gave me 6 pcs each of Apple snails and Malaysian trumpet snails. 

So far the aquarium is doing fine no real problem 20-25% water change weekly. After more research I saw "El natural" way and immedietly fell inlove since its budget friendly and looks awesome.

Now I would be getting this following stuff to start my at this tank and I need some advice and opinions on my current situtaion on how to make it succesfull. 

Substrate:
55 lbs Loam soil
65 lbs Black gravel (Small Size)

Plants:
35 plants of Dwarf Sagittaria
30 stems of Hygrophila Polysperma
30 stems of Ludwigia Repens Rubin
30 stems of Rotala Rotundifolia
Java Moss for the driftwood
Java Fern	for the driftwood
20 plants Amazon Frogbits

BTW the tank will get a little bit of sunlight because it is place near the window.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Welcome to APC!

Your plan sounds good. You probably will not need the sponge filters. Please tell us more about the overhead trickle filter. The flow rate is right for a 75g, but you want to avoid lots of splashing and surface water movement because this can cause loss of natural CO2.

Your soil layer should not be more than 1" - 1.5", and the gravel about the same or a little deeper.

Your plant list is great for a new Walstad tank--lots of fast growing stems and some floating plants to establish the tank quickly. Later you might want to try some slower growing rosette plants like cryptocoryne or swords. These have large strong root systems that help to prevent anaerobic conditions in the substrate.

Please show us some photos as you progress.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

Thanks for the quick response.

Since it seems the plants that my LPS suggusted are good. Are thos total of 90 stem is enough to keep algae away??

How about the lights??

I was going to change the powerhead pump combo to just a waterpump.. to avoid the splashing ill just raise the water level so there are no gaps in the outflow and water level. My over head have ceramic rings bio balls and filter floss


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## Rodgie (Dec 28, 2017)

Hi!

It's nice to see someone else from Philippines!

Walstad method is definitely budget friendly especially for bigger tanks. 

Your question about plants being enough to keep the algae's away, it depends on their growth. They can be plenty like 90% of tank floor is covered but if there's no growth then algae can take over. It's important for this big tank to have some water flow but not crazy on surface agitation.

Whats the measurement of this tank? I'm sure you're going to hear this suggestion from here, make sure you plant really heavy right off the bat.

And for the lights, get yourself an LED it'll save you a lot of electricity bill there. Get the one that is appropriate for your tank size and is low to medium light intensity. And, if possible try to get the one that'll have red light on it, because it has additional benefit for plant growth.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

Rodgie said:


> Hi!
> 
> It's nice to see someone else from Philippines!


Are you from Philippines too?



Rodgie said:


> Walstad method is definitely budget friendly especially for bigger tanks.
> 
> Your question about plants being enough to keep the algae's away, it depends on their growth. They can be plenty like 90% of tank floor is covered but if there's no growth then algae can take over. It's important for this big tank to have some water flow but not crazy on surface agitation.
> 
> Whats the measurement of this tank? I'm sure you're going to hear this suggestion from here, make sure you plant really heavy right off the bat.


48" x 18" x 21" is the aquarium size. I thinks it is a 75g standard size.

Well I will have around 90 stems of fast growing plants so hopefully they will grow as much I am expecting and about 35 plants of dwarf sags. How far per stem should I plant it?

For surface agitation I think I got it covered with my over head sump. btw does biological media is required or mechanical only?



Rodgie said:


> And for the lights, get yourself an LED it'll save you a lot of electricity bill there. Get the one that is appropriate for your tank size and is low to medium light intensity. And, if possible try to get the one that'll have red light on it, because it has additional benefit for plant growth.


As for lights I already purchase 2x t5 6500k lights about 24" long per bulb, will be changing it soon to bigger wattages if needed.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Stem plants are usually planted an inch or two apart, far enough so that the leaves of one stem do not touch leaves of another stem.

In a Walstad tank bio-media is not needed but mechanical can be useful.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

Day 1 of my tank


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Do you have dwarf sags planted on the wood? It looks like you do. That plant may not do well there, because it seems to need its roots in the substrate. It reproduces that way, too. But, maybe I am not seeing the picture right.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

hoppycalif said:


> Do you have dwarf sags planted on the wood? It looks like you do. That plant may not do well there, because it seems to need its roots in the substrate. It reproduces that way, too. But, maybe I am not seeing the picture right.


On the wood he has java fern & moss, not DS.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Yes, I see now! It helps to clean my glasses occasionally.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

hoppycalif said:


> Yes, I see now! It helps to clean my glasses occasionally.


Hahaha! we all have our moments dont we


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

sorry camera is not that clear but it is java fern and moss on wood

dwarf sag and hair grass on foreground and stem plants in the back are

amazon sword
ludwigia palustris
luwdigia repens
asian ambulia
rotala rotundofolia
green polysperma
bacopa carolina
cardamine lyrata
echinodus ozelot

So far for 3 days things are doing fine im seing growth not much since it is low tech, no algae, water is crystal clear. today ill do a 20% water. established filter media makes things easier


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

hoppycalif said:


> Yes, I see now! It helps to clean my glasses occasionally.


Im really sorry for the confusion I think it is because the cam is way far, java fern is so small and water is not crystal clear thats day 1 so it is a bit cloudy but after 3 day is it crystal clear now ill post pic once i do have a opportunity


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

Now since everything is setup and cycling.. Water is crystal clear I added some snails.

I have checked the internet and I cant find a guide on what to do after the setup. Can anyone point me to the right direction please?

Like when to do a water change?
When to add liquid fertilizer if needed?
Maintenance from here onward?

Thanks for the answer in advance


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## zolteeC (Dec 26, 2017)

r3464n said:


> Now since everything is setup and cycling.. Water is crystal clear I added some snails.
> 
> I have checked the internet and I cant find a guide on what to do after the setup. Can anyone point me to the right direction please?


I would read the book. It's so much better source of information.



r3464n said:


> Now since everything is setup and cycling.. Water is crystal clear I added some snails.
> Like when to do a water change?


Depends on your soil. If it were an unknown soil to me, I'd do more water changes in the very first month. Say 2x / week 30%. Just to be on the safe(r) side. If you can measure NO2, NH4, NO3, I'd do that.



r3464n said:


> Now since everything is setup and cycling.. Water is crystal clear I added some snails.
> When to add liquid fertilizer if needed?


You don't need to add it. Seriously. If you add it, you just may cause trouble. In the long run, say in a year, you may need to reconsider this. Say if you have lots of floating plants etc. But as long as plants are growing, I'd not worry about this.



r3464n said:


> Now since everything is setup and cycling.. Water is crystal clear I added some snails.
> Maintenance from here onward?
> Thanks for the answer in advance


If all goes all right, after the first month you can reduce water changes significantly. Feed fish. Do prune plants, but try not to remove *a lot* (like weed out half of it) at the same time.

You wrote what filters you use. Those are unknown for me. Anyway, too much water movement can backfire.

Did you post a picture? It is not showing for whatever reason.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

Sometimes in dirted tanks you need to add certain nutrients such as FE or Potassium, but I wouldn't get to worried about it.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

zolteeC said:


> I would read the book. It's so much better source of information.
> 
> Depends on your soil. If it were an unknown soil to me, I'd do more water changes in the very first month. Say 2x / week 30%. Just to be on the safe(r) side. If you can measure NO2, NH4, NO3, I'd do that.
> 
> ...


I would really love to read the book but it is too expensive for me here in Philippines. So I just rely on youtube videos, forums, and blogs. So sad you cant read it for free but I understand.

So regardless if the water is crystal clear just do a 20-30% twice a week for a month? Yesterday I did change about 25%, all is well, No transparent leave, dwarf sag are emerging on the substrate a little bit, mo progress on hair grass thought, no algae, new leaves shooting up in the amazon sword, I dont know if I am just imagining but it seems that the stem plants grow a lil bit withinin the 4 days I planted them. They seems a little bit taller I think?!

I also dont have access to test the water again so sad. My setup is on a budget thats why I decided to go low tech dirted tank so I can have a lush green tank in my living room that balance it self with some effort on my end.

The soil is just a unbranded organic soil that I sifted out before putting to the aquarium due to large pebbles and twig. I didnt mineralize it just straight in the tank then stir it with water until muddy.

So as long as plants are growing just let them be? I do have alot of duckweed and frogbits floating btw that i got free from where I bought the plants. So occasional pruning and replanting is the only thing I need to do to maintain it.

The filter that I have is a powerhead/pump combo it creates flows (which is adjustable) and pump water to my trinkle filter with filter floss and ceramic rings that is sitting on top of my tank.

I will try to upload more pics as I progress.


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## zolteeC (Dec 26, 2017)

r3464n said:


> I would really love to read the book but it is too expensive for me here in Philippines. So I just rely on youtube videos, forums, and blogs. So sad you cant read it for free but I understand.
> 
> So regardless if the water is crystal clear just do a 20-30% twice a week for a month? Yesterday I did change about 25%, all is well, No transparent leave, dwarf sag are emerging on the substrate a little bit, mo progress on hair grass thought, no algae, new leaves shooting up in the amazon sword, I dont know if I am just imagining but it seems that the stem plants grow a lil bit withinin the 4 days I planted them. They seems a little bit taller I think?!
> 
> ...


Based on your description, all seems to be fine. New growth is what you want to see and that's happening in your tank. The tank should not smell bad by any means (if so, then water change.). More water changes than I mentioned may help to be on the safer side which is a good thing. A lot depends on your soil; I was able to put in fish on the 2nd day with my garden topsoil, but this would be very, very risky had I used an unknown soil.

About your _organic_ soil: I have started NPTs many times without mineralizing the soil and other hocus-pocus. One thing worth checking though: Did they add artificial fertilizers to your soil (I guess organic means they didn't, but who knows)? If yes, it may not be a disaster; in this case I would wait a bit longer before putting fish in and also I'd do more frequent water changes in the beginning.

If you use tap water, you might be able to check some water parameters directly from your water company. For example your water hardness. If you have very soft water, or very hard water you may need to consider this. For example my tap water contains a lot of dissolved O2, in the beginning fresh submerged soil may have higher O2 needs.

Too much water movement may backfire in a NPT. These tanks may contain more CO2 than the air equilibrium would suggest. If you mix your water very quickly, this can drive out CO2 from the water. (I was also able to grow plants in still water...).

Let us know how it goes. If you can take a picture, that also helps us to see where this is going.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

zolteeC said:


> Based on your description, all seems to be fine. New growth is what you want to see and that's happening in your tank. The tank should not smell bad by any means (if so, then water change.). More water changes than I mentioned may help to be on the safer side which is a good thing. A lot depends on your soil; I was able to put in fish on the 2nd day with my garden topsoil, but this would be very, very risky had I used an unknown soil.


Yeah it is positive the stem plants are growing! Dwarf sag seems ok but no noticable growth. No bad smell at all. I just do a water change every 3 days just a quick 25%. I also took the risk a couple of days ago by adding shirmps and neons they are all fine and happy.



zolteeC said:


> About your _organic_ soil: I have started NPTs many times without mineralizing the soil and other hocus-pocus. One thing worth checking though: Did they add artificial fertilizers to your soil (I guess organic means they didn't, but who knows)? If yes, it may not be a disaster; in this case I would wait a bit longer before putting fish in and also I'd do more frequent water changes in the beginning.


I dont think so on fertilizer the dirt is just like dirt you dug from your garden. alot of stones and twigs so the only thing I did is sifted it out. I have no mortality from the stock I put in a couple of days ago.



zolteeC said:


> If you use tap water, you might be able to check some water parameters directly from your water company. For example your water hardness. If you have very soft water, or very hard water you may need to consider this. For example my tap water contains a lot of dissolved O2, in the beginning fresh submerged soil may have higher O2 needs.


This I will do a research.



zolteeC said:


> Too much water movement may backfire in a NPT. These tanks may contain more CO2 than the air equilibrium would suggest. If you mix your water very quickly, this can drive out CO2 from the water. (I was also able to grow plants in still water...).


I have a very slow water movement now. I adjusted my filter because initially it is blowing everything off but now water look still but there is actually a movement in it.



zolteeC said:


> Let us know how it goes. If you can take a picture, that also helps us to see where this is going.


I will up by uploading pics if there would be noticable progress. As of now Im just waiting for the plants to take over!


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## zolteeC (Dec 26, 2017)

r3464n said:


> Yeah it is positive the stem plants are growing! Dwarf sag seems ok but no noticable growth. No bad smell at all. I just do a water change every 3 days just a quick 25%. I also took the risk a couple of days ago by adding shirmps and neons they are all fine and happy.
> 
> I dont think so on fertilizer the dirt is just like dirt you dug from your garden. alot of stones and twigs so the only thing I did is sifted it out. I have no mortality from the stock I put in a couple of days ago.
> 
> ...


Too me it sounds you are pretty much on track .


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

zolteeC said:


> Too me it sounds you are pretty much on track .


Thank you very much!!

Current update:

Flora: Nothing fancy, the amazon sword that I potted on a cup is shooting new leave, stem plants are taking there time a little bit of growth a day to day basis, dwarf sag still the same so as hair grass. Java moss and Java fern also taking there time

Fauna: I added my Neon tetra and Corydoras no mortality everyone is eating and lively.

Invert: Those MT snails I put in I cannot see them anymore, maybe hiding. RCS added too no mortality. hoping there population will start to pick up.

Algae: Cant see any if there is.

Filtration: I remove all my filters because the powerhead is giving to much flow. Just added a airstone to create a little bit movement on water column.

Hopefully in the next couple of weeks or months it would jungle out so I can start pruning and replanting!! Thanks for all the support and info guys!


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## zolteeC (Dec 26, 2017)

r3464n said:


> Filtration: I remove all my filters because the powerhead is giving to much flow. Just added a airstone to create a little bit movement on water column.


Sometimes I had an issue with very small floating particles in the water column (I don't know what's causing this, some of my tanks had this, some did not.). If thats happening and bugs you, then maybe you can add a filter that removes these. (i.e filter floss, ...)
Also if water stays hazy for a long time, then maybe some tweaks are needed.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

zolteeC said:


> r3464n said:
> 
> 
> > Filtration: I remove all my filters because the powerhead is giving to much flow. Just added a airstone to create a little bit movement on water column.
> ...


 I turned the filter again do a water change for the 2nd time.. it seema since i turned off the filter water because a little bit hazy.. also.. 1 of the shirmp is berried that makea me excited.. Picture attached!


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

I currently having a little bit of an issue here.

Yesterday, water is not clear, not sure what is causing it. Cloudy I would say can still see the plants but not a clear as what a normal aquarium like someone pour in milk on it. So I did a major water change and it bacame crystal clear I remove the filter and just using 2 airstone to create movementin water.

This morning I woke up and water is cloudy again. Any ideas?


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

bacterial bloom, not an issue.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

The picture of your 65 gal shows a lot of empty, cloudy water and not that many plants. It looks like enough plants for setting up a 5 or 10 gal. You simply must start out with enough plant biomass per gal of tank water to compete with algae.

I'm not picking on you; I said the same thing about Nick's tank. 

Cannot say it enough... Hobbyists inexperienced with NPTs should start out with a small tank. If you cannot afford my book, my website (_See_ below) has an article ("Small Planted Tanks for Pet Shrimp") that you can download free. There are enough ideas in that article to get you started with a small tank or bowl.

If you succeed with a bowl or a 5 gal tank, you will know which plants and soil work for you. You will have excess plants that are _adapted_ to your water and soil conditions. You can use these plants for starting a larger tank. Your chances of success are much, much greater than starting out with a large tank, an unfamiliar soil, a few plants that aren't adapted, and no experience.

https://dianawalstad.com/aquariums/


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## zolteeC (Dec 26, 2017)

dwalstad said:


> The picture of your 65 gal shows a lot of empty, cloudy water and not that many plants. It looks like enough plants for setting up a 5 or 10 gal. You simply must start out with enough plant biomass per gal of tank water to compete with algae.
> 
> I'm not picking on you; I said the same thing about Nick's tank.
> 
> ...


Definitely the tank would be on the safer side with more plants, especially if you could fill in those larger empty areas a bit.

But there is also a good news. If I compare the first and the second picture, there appears to be some reasonable growth. It is hard to see though, the very first picture has lots of reflections.

My bet is that this tank will start, but the advice above is very well worth considering.

Also in a situation like this I would put the fish into the tank much later, when I can see that plants filled in the tank much more.


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## terryna (Mar 16, 2018)

interesting thread, I also experienced the same problem


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

dwalstad said:


> The picture of your 65 gal shows a lot of empty, cloudy water and not that many plants. It looks like enough plants for setting up a 5 or 10 gal. You simply must start out with enough plant biomass per gal of tank water to compete with algae.
> 
> I'm not picking on you; I said the same thing about Nick's tank.
> 
> ...


OMG MS. DIANA REPLIED!! IM GONNA FAINT!!!

I just figure out the reason for the cloudy water.. The CORYDORAS!!! digging like crazy and it create leaks from the substrate which I will address soon. When I do a water change things are allright but when Corys decided to dig that is where my problem occur.

But for the suggestion of adding more plants, I already ordered alot of plants and they are coming in soon. I dont have Algae problem but having more plants wouldnt be a harm.

I really want to start with a small tank but this is the only tank I have. Even all my equipment is rated for a larger tank. So buying a small tank means buying all the equipment aswell for the small tank. When I started at in this hobby everyone said "start with the biggest aquarium that you can" so I did 75gals! started with a Oscar died after a couple of years and decided to go NPT after seing your aquariums and watching some of your interviews.... with a 75 gallons on hand.

I think I am having a success thanks to all the info in the net that they posted base on what they learned from your book. Water is crystal clear after water change, I can definitely see plant growth and no algae problem. no die off on fish too.

I will definetly download that Ma'am Thank you for the link!



zolteeC said:


> Definitely the tank would be on the safer side with more plants, especially if you could fill in those larger empty areas a bit.
> 
> But there is also a good news. If I compare the first and the second picture, there appears to be some reasonable growth. It is hard to see though, the very first picture has lots of reflections.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that good news. I really notice growth, stems are taller when I started I gave the stem a little thug to see if its rooted, it seem it already holding on the substrate. the first couple of days I always see one or two stems floating but now all of them are holding the substrate. I will remove all fish later do a water change and post some pics. probably re-scape a little because i think those large stone are way to heavy and it is putting pressure on the dirt.

Plants coming in soon!! More stem plants and more dwarf sags!


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

This is the current update. Just finished a water change. I remove the corydora added gravel on those leaks. I also remove those large rocks because it is too heavy and it is creating a pressure on the dirt. Let me know what you think..

More stem plants are coming in soon.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

Is it normal that some of the part of my tank there are soil on top of my substrate. it not creating mess unless bothered but it is an eye sore.

Thanks for the answer ill post a picture on my gravel with brown patches.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

Current update.. I added more plants and 12 black neon tetra. 

Everything seems fine. Sorry for the glare its 2pm here and its summer


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Looks much better! Water is clearer and you've got more plants. The Black Neons are a lovely addition to this tank. 

I hope that you will release that Amazon Sword from the plastic cup and actually plant it in the tank. Once an Amazon Swordplant takes off, it can prevent a lot of problems.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

dwalstad said:


> Looks much better! Water is clearer and you've got more plants. The Black Neons are a lovely addition to this tank.
> 
> I hope that you will release that Amazon Sword from the plastic cup and actually plant it in the tank. Once an Amazon Swordplant takes off, it can prevent a lot of problems.


Thank you Ms Walstad I like it more the way my tank looks, the amazon sword im planning to put it on a clay pot because Iam not really sure if I wanted in my tank. But everything really looks awesome Im so excited for this stems to grow very long! Jungle my tank out


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

Tank update as of March 27

- Echinodorus Ozelot remove from left side corner, trimmed and replanted in mid ground.
- Amazon sword removed from pot, trimmed and planted on this left side corner of the tank.
- New plants seems taking off already, they seem to be taller since I planted them.

Hope things will move to what I am expecting that all those plants in the back ground will grow 10+ inches so I can trim and replant.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

looks really good


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

DutchMuch said:


> looks really good


Thank you so much


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

r3464n said:


> Is it normal that some of the part of my tank there are soil on top of my substrate. it not creating mess unless bothered but it is an eye sore.
> 
> Thanks for the answer ill post a picture on my gravel with brown patches.


Late answer, but: I don't think that is soil you see. I think it is just mulm, organic debris that settles in locations determined by the water circulation pattern in the tank. If I'm right you can siphon it out pretty easily. I usually just leave it alone until the appearance bothers me too much, then I start siphoning it out.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

hoppycalif said:


> Late answer, but: I don't think that is soil you see. I think it is just mulm, organic debris that settles in locations determined by the water circulation pattern in the tank. If I'm right you can siphon it out pretty easily. I usually just leave it alone until the appearance bothers me too much, then I start siphoning it out.


To be honest with you it really bothers me.. im just afraid to siphon it an cause alot of trouble. Iam pretty sure that its not mulms but soil that came from the buttom of the tank settle in the middle of the gravel and then brought up by my corydoras by digging. I would actually want to add a couple of RAMS but Iam afraid that this will make this soil situation worst.

It is so annoying that it is only in the middle of tank where it happen that I am even considering tearing up the whole tank because I think I messed up capping my soil.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

hoppycalif said:


> Late answer, but: I don't think that is soil you see. I think it is just mulm, organic debris that settles in locations determined by the water circulation pattern in the tank. If I'm right you can siphon it out pretty easily. I usually just leave it alone until the appearance bothers me too much, then I start siphoning it out.


haha! i have dhg in my fluval V, and its such a thick carpet and high flow you cant see the mulm, its their but the dhg is tall and thick enough its "invisible"


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

DutchMuch said:


> haha! i have dhg in my fluval V, and its such a thick carpet and high flow you cant see the mulm, its their but the dhg is tall and thick enough its "invisible"


I dont have a thick carpet for dwarf sag so you can really see the "light brown color" that definitely looks like soil dust sitting on top of the gravel some covering my dwarf sag.

If the corydoras are here the tank will be super cloudy. It is frustrating that it is in the middle of the tank

Current inhabitants of the tank are about 12 black neons 10 neon and 2 rummy nose (will add more when my lps sell some) 10 RCS so its really understock for a 75g really..

Its making me crazy to see this mess. maybe ill just try to siphon it and see what happen..


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

weird, i have ALWAYS had corys in any of my tanks as imo they are Vital in the turnover of substrate (and in other ways due to their habits), if they are making a cloudy mess then is your cap to thin?


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

DutchMuch said:


> weird, i have ALWAYS had corys in any of my tanks as imo they are Vital in the turnover of substrate (and in other ways due to their habits), if they are making a cloudy mess then is your cap to thin?


that is exactly what i though but other parts of the tank does not have this problem. I dont know it is so annoying like I want to tear it all apart and start over rofl

I have a question. Would it be a good idea to lower my water level like an inch below to my tallest stem plant? Exposed in air? Just wondering and then I will slowly increase water level when they get taller


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## zolteeC (Dec 26, 2017)

r3464n said:


> that is exactly what i though but other parts of the tank does not have this problem. I dont know it is so annoying like I want to tear it all apart and start over rofl
> 
> I have a question. Would it be a good idea to lower my water level like an inch below to my tallest stem plant? Exposed in air? Just wondering and then I will slowly increase water level when they get taller


You can consider to add a little cap afterwards. How deep is it? 
I also have corys, and I don't have this issue. I have around 3 cm cap.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

zolteeC said:


> You can consider to add a little cap afterwards. How deep is it?
> I also have corys, and I don't have this issue. I have around 3 cm cap.


What I did is removed my cory, water change and never experience cloudy water anymore. because nothing is stirring it. I added more gravel on top of that leak worked for a couple of days and then it is on top again after a few days. it look annoying really and also limits me from getting my favorite fish about 5 Blue Rams


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## zolteeC (Dec 26, 2017)

r3464n said:


> What I did is removed my cory, water change and never experience cloudy water anymore. because nothing is stirring it. I added more gravel on top of that leak worked for a couple of days and then it is on top again after a few days. it look annoying really and also limits me from getting my favorite fish about 5 Blue Rams


Its kind of strange whats going on... I have had all kind of fish and haven't seen this happening not even in the long run.

Can it be that there is something hiding in your dirt that is causing this?


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

zolteeC said:


> Its kind of strange whats going on... I have had all kind of fish and haven't seen this happening not even in the long run.
> 
> Can it be that there is something hiding in your dirt that is causing this?


Everything seems to be working. The Hygrophila Polysperma grew so much compared to other plants. but every plants looks healthy and maybe growing a little on a day by day basis. My plan to address my small problems is to let them grow maybe in 3 to 4 month I would do a major tank tear down. Restart from the top with a better knowledge and alot of available plants that i can replant maybe add more soil and gravel.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I think you have a good idea! My first attempts at a planted tank were short lived, too. But, they were learning experiences. Nothing keeps us from fixing our mistakes by starting over. But, doing so works best if there are no fish involved. Still, I have removed the fish to an insulated box, replaced the whole set-up, filled it with water and put the fish back, without losing any.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

hoppycalif said:


> I think you have a good idea! My first attempts at a planted tank were short lived, too. But, they were learning experiences. Nothing keeps us from fixing our mistakes by starting over. But, doing so works best if there are no fish involved. Still, I have removed the fish to an insulated box, replaced the whole set-up, filled it with water and put the fish back, without losing any.


Actually there is a slight change of plans. Kinda excited though. I got a great deal $36 for a 48x18x18 70g brand new rimless tank that is coming a week or two from now ( My current tank is a 48x20x18 ), this will open a lot of option for me since my current tank has euro brace on it. This mean when it comes to filtration I would be able to use HOB filter which is nice. So the plan is once the tank is in, I will start the tear down.

- Remove all the fish and plants
- Separate soil and gravel from the current tank
- Buy additional soil and gravel maybe 20kg each
- Setup the new dirted 70g tank
- Put back the plants and rescape
- The fish can go to the old 75 once cleaned and running.
- Let the new planted tank do a cycle

The old tank will eventually be placed under my display tank and maybe I will do a sand substrate and hardscapes only with cichlids (still undecided) but definitely not a planted or dirted one.

Alot of work that needs to be done but with the knowledge and experience I was able to acquire plus the info I got from research I think this would be a little bit easier and higher success thought my current tank is not completely a failure. I will update you guys soon next week on my progress.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

One quick question on Hardscape:

I have this 3-4 pcs of rocks about 4 to 5 inches. Quite heavy. and I am planning to use it my question is should you put it on the tank before soil and capped or soil capped then rocks? I am concern that the rock would be to heavy that it will push the gravel and soil down than will cause a leak.

Because without this rocks the tank looks boring, substrate and plants only. Plus this create hidding spot aswell.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

After a water change last night.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

Current situation of my tank.. Im really all set to tear down.. The soil is really on top of the gravel


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

why would u tear it down? 
that's not soil on the top of your gravel its just debris FROM the soil, completely normal. If you think yours is bad you should see my journal thread when i upload the FTS pretty soon here lol its like 1/4" thick everywhere. 

Tank looks good


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

You can try siphoning the "dust" out. Just keep the hose an inch or so above the area you are cleaning up. A major reason people siphon the substrate is to get it to look much cleaner. But, don't let the siphon pick up any of the gravel or you could get much more than you want!


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

DutchMuch said:


> why would u tear it down?
> that's not soil on the top of your gravel its just debris FROM the soil, completely normal. If you think yours is bad you should see my journal thread when i upload the FTS pretty soon here lol its like 1/4" thick everywhere.
> 
> Tank looks good


Thanks, tank is OK but once I put a fish that even try to move close the substrate to dig a little tank goes cloudy like some one pour in milk. The main reason of the tear down is the new 70g rimless tank thats coming in, this thank will be used for non planted maybe for a flowerhorn still not sure



hoppycalif said:


> You can try siphoning the "dust" out. Just keep the hose an inch or so above the area you are cleaning up. A major reason people siphon the substrate is to get it to look much cleaner. But, don't let the siphon pick up any of the gravel or you could get much more than you want!


I tried that it work a little bit then after a couple of days same thing would happen I think the main reason for this is my gravel is too think so when I tear it down I will add more gravel.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Your tank looks okay to me. A little cloudiness and soil on top of gravel is not a big deal and nothing to worry about. As the substrate matures, biofilm bacteria will begin to bind the soil particles together to reduce cloudiness. I suspect that you want a beautiful and established tank instantly, but an NPT is an ecosystem, not a painting or a fleeting aquascape. I would just relax and let your tank's ecosystem develop. If fish are okay and plants are growing and there's no algae takeover, I would consider that you are doing pretty well!

Adding more gravel is not going to help.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

The old tank was doing fine plants growing, no algae, fish are ok aside from my soil problem making the tank cloudy but I needed to tear it down because of the new tank that I got. Its a 48x18x12 45g rimless tank which I set up as my new dirted tank while the 48x18x20 75g tank below while be my Mbuna cichlids tank. 

Still a work on progress specially the lights for the new tank but all in all I am very happy with its result. On my first dirted tank I learned a lot and it make this 45g tank set up much much easier and fun, I was shocked when I pulled out the plants the roots grows so much!


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

CURRENT UPDATE!!!

TOP
Dirted Low tech Species Tank
48x18x12 45G Rimless tank
600L/H HOB filter
Garden soil capped with gravel
2x T5 16watts Daylights
Fish: 20x Tiger Barb
Plants: Green Polysperma, Ludwigia Repens, Bacopa Caroliniana and Dwarf Sagittaria

BUTTOM
Malawi Community Tank
48x18x20 75G Standard
2400 Wet and Dry Filter
Gravel substrate with cave rocks
T5 8watts Daylight
Fish: 5 of each Yellow Lab, Sulfur Head Peacock and Dragons Blood Peacock
Plants: Potted Amazon Sword


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

UPDATE:
-Added a wave maker (Sunsun 2000). Circulation of water is nicer and it seems my HOB is more efficient with the help of a wave maker.
-Couple of trim and replanted.

Conclusion: So far tank is healthy and balance, no algae or detritus on the capped, Water topup every week, Tiger barbs are doing so well. Now its time to seat back relax and enjoy 










Will add more dwarf sag and bacopa caroliania in the next couple of days


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

cool beans thanks for the update


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

You've got it covered!

I like the way you've created an area for floating plants. I'm always partial to tanks with this much surface area.

_Bacopa caroliniana_ could be a great addition to this tank. It's a pretty stem plant with unstoppable growth in my tanks.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

Couple of change everything now up and running


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

oh that bottom tank looks appealing. And I dont like most cichlid scapes so that means something.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

dwalstad said:


> You've got it covered!
> 
> I like the way you've created an area for floating plants. I'm always partial to tanks with this much surface area.
> 
> _Bacopa caroliniana_ could be a great addition to this tank. It's a pretty stem plant with unstoppable growth in my tanks.


Thank you so much Ms. Walstad. I just saw that in youtube so the floating plants will be all over the the tank and filter. The guy used a acrylic tube with suction cap though mine is just airline tubing to create loop. I just want to have a place for those floaters by doing this Im giving my fish alot of space to swim on top which the molly likes so much.

The reason I will add more bacopa caroliniana is because well first it looks good at low tech and the other side of the tank is full of ludwigia repens already, the green polysperma took over already keeping up with trimming one a week (not that I am complaining) but it grows crazy. Just want to have a dense vegetation on the left side of the tank with bacopa caroliniana.

Dwarf sag looks healthy but I just want to add more it is fun to see the Tiger Barbs are keeping those dwarf sag clean from detritus so maybe ill add about 15 more dwarf sag.

The wave maker that I place is doing a great job on keeping the nutrients circulated and big boost for the HOB to work more efficiently.

The barbs are so crazy. Begging food and eating like piranha so happy I choose the nippy guys over other schooling tetras they have so much character.

Current Stock:
20 Tiger Barbs
10 Serpae Tetra
4 Black Molly 1M 3F


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

r3464n said:


> The barbs are so crazy. Begging food and eating like piranha so happy I choose the nippy guys over other schooling tetras they have so much character.
> 
> Current Stock:
> 20 Tiger Barbs
> ...


So your fish are more than just moving parts of a painting.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

DutchMuch said:


> oh that bottom tank looks appealing. And I dont like most cichlid scapes so that means something.


Thank you!! I just put in sand and randomly just put in rocks turn out nice alot of cave and hide where the mbuna play there chasing game. I really loved how it turn out.

My tank is so active its a total of 120 gallons of stress releaver. I used to keep those tetra like neon and cradinal color is nice but lacks on character.

I am thinking if its necessary to add Corydora cause my Barbs are eating stuff on top of the gravel. About 5 or 6 they have great character too but Im afraid they will dig too much gravel again.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

dwalstad said:


> So your fish are more than just moving parts of a painting.


They are indeed! They are like puppies begging for food and if bored they chase each other around.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

Anyone have an idea whats going on with this, and possible problem it may cause?


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

What the brown stuff?
its just algae....


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

At times, I have gotten a purple layer. It's photosynthetic algae. Light shining on the substrate begets all kinds of interesting growth. Not a problem.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

Should I vacuum it or just leave it alone?

It is on the side of the tank and not really bothering me, when I do my WC sometime I see this brown dust on top of the substrate I just use a stick to poke on the gravel and vacuum the dust.

Is it safe to say the green polysperma is the lowest tech in my plants, they share the same lights but they are outgrowing other plants, though bacopa caroliana at ludwigia repens seems healthy but they dont get tall as fast as the green polysperma.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

r3464n said:


> Should I vacuum it or just leave it alone?


I would just leave it alone. Enjoy the complexity of your tank's ecosystem.


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## Maryland Guppy (Mar 5, 2015)

r3464n said:


> Should I vacuum it or just leave it alone?
> 
> Is it safe to say the green polysperma is the lowest tech in my plants, they share the same lights but they are outgrowing other plants, though bacopa caroliana at ludwigia repens seems healthy but they dont get tall as fast as the green polysperma.


We all have different opinions on vacuum and mulm.
I remove it all with a vac, but that's my following.

Regarding polysperma green, never trash it. Always keep some if you have it.
Sometimes it even gets lost in the hobby for a while then re-appears.
It is a great water quality indicator plant.
If leaves are straight and not getting rippled and strange your water quality in terms of growing is most likely good.
High-tech with 120+ PAR the tips can turn a fine orange color too.
Lo-tech green color should be uniform and not losing bottom leaves.


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

Im still not sure what to do with it? Maybe just a very light vacuum.

I am planning to rearrange my plants in the background meaning I need to pull every single stem which is scary, trying to avoid pulling so much soil on top, so do you think it is a good idea? And in cases like this how do you tackle this job?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

r3464n said:


> I need to pull every single stem which is scary, trying to avoid pulling so much soil on top, so do you think it is a good idea?


No.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think you _need_ to pull out every single stem plant?


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

+1 to Diana's comment


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## r3464n (Feb 12, 2018)

dwalstad said:


> No.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, why do you think you _need_ to pull out every single stem plant?


Because I am planning to move the green polysperma (center) to the left side of the tank which is where my bacopa caroliania is planted. I dont like how the green polysperma is taking over the whole center of the tank. Planning to put the bacopa is the center background


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