# Low quality KNO3?!!!



## john.shephard26 (Mar 8, 2011)

A friend of mine told me that he tested the local KNO3 and says that his KNO3 when added rises the levels of KNO4(!) and I'm talking about Lab professional testing at the local water distribution center not the home test kits that are usually used.Is this possible?


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

A popular aquatic supplier sold me some VERY smelly KNO3. I complained as KNO3 does not have an odor. All I got was that it was OK to use. I did. My plants suffered and I almost lost many species. I got a new batch from a different supplier and my plants have revived. I have been tempted to have the stuff analysed.


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## JeffyFunk (Apr 6, 2006)

I question the credibility of the professional. In this case, I have (1) never heard of KNO4 and (2) don't even think that is a viable chemical structure. If it really **is** a pernitrate (or whatever the NO4(2-) anion is), there would have to be two cations to balance the structure. 

I do agree w/ Newt that you have to be careful about your KNO3 source. I only order KNO3 from aquariumfertilizer.com as a result from now on.


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## john.shephard26 (Mar 8, 2011)

O, no, no, no, its NO2, my mistake... sorry:rofl:
Please if You could answer to this again?


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

This is why I always supply my tank with KNO3 by soaking a piece of Deli meat in it. Every deli meat has KNO3 as a preservative. It's food grade and when you soak the piece of meat in your tank it gets released slowly.









Next time you go to the store look at the label of any Deli meat products. You will see KNO3 on very much all of them. It's a preservative, that's all there is to it. I usually soak Deli ham in my tank - it seems to have the most juice in the package.

Joke aside - by trying to control what happens in your tank too precisely you are setting yourself up for failure. The tank needs to get stable based on its own natural processes. That way you work less to maintain it, it stays stable and clean. Adding chemicals to it and trying to keep them in certain concentrations is completely counter intuitive but it works as long as you maintain the tank consistently.

--Nikolay


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## modster (Jun 16, 2007)

Newt said:


> A popular aquatic supplier sold me some VERY smelly KNO3. I complained as KNO3 does not have an odor. All I got was that it was OK to use. I did. My plants suffered and I almost lost many species. I got a new batch from a different supplier and my plants have revived. I have been tempted to have the stuff analysed.


Can you PM me the supplier name?


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

You could also go for a Stump Remover Product. Just make sure it's pure KNO3. One brand I've used in the past available at LOWES is Spectricide.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

modster said:


> Can you PM me the supplier name?


Are you experiencing a similar issue?


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## john.shephard26 (Mar 8, 2011)

Ok guys with a risk of sounding selfish can you tell me if my KNO3 is actually KNO2 and how is that possible?
And BTW my KNO3 is actually from aquariumfertilzer.com but I suppose I should have mention it previously


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

My smelly, bad KNO3 was not from Aquarium Fertilizer, Rex Grigg nor Bob's Tropical Plants.


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## modster (Jun 16, 2007)

Newt said:


> Are you experiencing a similar issue?


No. I have one good bag and it's lasting years. I just want to know who to avoid when it's time to get more.


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## modster (Jun 16, 2007)

john.shephard26 said:


> Ok guys with a risk of sounding selfish can you tell me if my KNO3 is actually KNO2 and how is that possible?
> And BTW my KNO3 is actually from aquariumfertilzer.com but I suppose I should have mention it previously


After some googling, it seems like KNO2 does exist. So it's very possible that you have KNO2. But I have always heard good things about aquariumfertilizer.com, so I would do some definite testing before start accusing them. If you have those off the shelf water test kit, try testing your tap water for nitrite and nitrate first, and then repeat the test with the KNO3 added.

Anyways, even if it's KNO2, I guess a well established tank would be able to convert NO2 to NO3 pretty quickly.


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## john.shephard26 (Mar 8, 2011)

Like I said in the beginning my friend tested a LOCAL KNO3 and he got KNO2.I have a good KNO3 with which I am super satisfied, I trim my plants twice a month and I'm ordering a new batch of KNO3 from the same place.


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## Jeffww (May 25, 2010)

Don't use the bad KNO3....nitrite is something really really bad for your tank and fish so avoid it at all costs. What was used to measure it? Titration, spectrophotometer, some probe, mass spectrometer?


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## john.shephard26 (Mar 8, 2011)

Jeffww said:


> Don't use the bad KNO3....nitrite is something really really bad for your tank and fish so avoid it at all costs. What was used to measure it? Titration, spectrophotometer, some probe, mass spectrometer?


 Well you got me there, whatever a city water distribution center uses, it is done in their lab, couple of years ago I did the same in a medical lab were they test wells and rural springs, my KNO3 was good.
Why do you think that KNO2 is so bad isn't it suppose to be converted by the filter media in to a KNO3?
I don't intend to use it, I'm just curious, I want to learn.


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## DVS (Nov 20, 2005)

I'm thinking there might be something missing from this story? Adding nitrite to a tank would kill any shrimp or fish in pretty short order, (I believe). So I would have expected you to a suspect a problem before testing. Hobby nitrite tests are readily available and you can easily test for nitrite yourself. You and your friend realize that most nitrate tests work by reducing nitrate to nitrite, then measuring that parameter? This wouldn't be the source of the problem (or confusion)?


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## john.shephard26 (Mar 8, 2011)

DVS said:


> I'm thinking there might be something missing from this story? Adding nitrite to a tank would kill any shrimp or fish in pretty short order, (I believe). So I would have expected you to a suspect a problem before testing. Hobby nitrite tests are readily available and you can easily test for nitrite yourself. You and your friend realize that most nitrate tests work by reducing nitrate to nitrite, then measuring that parameter? This wouldn't be the source of the problem (or confusion)?


You are wright, let me be more clear.I borrowed some KNO3 from a friend until I get mine ordered from Aqu....com; but my friend worn me that his KNO3 rises KNO2 which was proven by testing it, so my originally thought was if this KNO3 is somehow impure or something else...I'm not a chemist(obviously) so I was wondering what could it be.


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## rlswaney73 (Jul 21, 2011)

Did your friend report this to the seller? scary thought... dry dosing nitrite instead of nitrates.


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## JeffyFunk (Apr 6, 2006)

I would like to make the comment that in this thread, I think people are making a lot of assumptions on not a lot of facts. 

First of all, everyone here is talking about "aquarium grade" fertilizer. This means that the product is going to contain some impurities. Unless you are going out and purchasing ACS or Analytical grade reagents, then your "aquarium grade" fertilizers are going to have impurities. The questions that everyone needs to ask themselves is "How pure do I need my fertilizers to be? At what level of impurities is the "fertilizer" unacceptable for use?" 

I think it is the second question is what really needs to be asked. In the case of KNO3, everyone here is (essentually) arguing over questionable results done by a (presumed) hobbyist (versus a trained chemist) using commercial home test kits of questionable accuracy and precision. In order to have an actual conversation about impurity levels, you would need to actually know what the impurity levels are by having a sample of their "aquarium grade" KNO3 sent out to a qualified laboratory to be analyzed for the 3 forms of nitrogen (N-NH3, N-NO2, N-NO3) by ion chromatography. Ion chromatography would be my technique of choice since the 3 nitrogen species are well separated in the chromatograph and will not interfere with each other in the analysis. This is in contrast to home test kits that use wet chemistry and are prone to many interferences.

My take home message would be this: (1) Be critical of what "facts" you actually have and (2) Only buy KNO3 from a reputable source and, even then, be observant when using it the first few times to make sure it is acceptable for your needs. (Like Newt, I too have had a bad experience with some batches of KNO3 - I think this chemical is just more prone to "problematic" contaminations than the other chemicals we typically dose in our aquariums.)

Getting back to the "original" question: (1) Without paying for and doing a full chromatographic and elemental analysis, there is no way of knowing what impurities you have. (2) I think it is useful to be skeptical of all chemicals and observe your aquarium for signs of nitrite and / or ammonia issues. The method of controlled imbalance is useful for observing ammonia impurities since the presence of hair or string algae (i think) is indicative of ammonia impurities. If you don't notice any issues, then there is no reason to not use your "aquarium grade" chemicals.

P.S. I would also like to add that I think everyone "speculating" about dosing huge quantities of nitrites is ridiculous. (1) If you have a well planted aquarium, the nitrites will be readily oxidized to nitrates due to biological activity. (2) If you look up the analysis methods for nitrite analysis, you will find that the salt used for the nitrite standard, sodium nitrite (NaNO2) IS "OXIDIZED READILY IN THE PRESENCE OF MOISTURE.... PREPARE (SOLUTIONS) DAILY." So even if there are some nitrite impurities, they shouldn't really be an issue. (Ammonium salts, on the other hand, are stable and would be more likely to be an issue in the planted aquarium).


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## john.shephard26 (Mar 8, 2011)

rlswaney73 said:


> Did your friend report this to the seller? scary thought... dry dosing nitrite instead of nitrates.


 Well, not really, thats KNO3 that is bought in agricultural shops for use in growing crops and what not.It is a temporary thing and its not so bad, I use to use it years ago and I didn't have much problems as long as I didn't dose it a lot(much under 10pp).
And as for JAFFYFUNK, you are absolutely right, the best thing is to purchase from a reliable source and not to worry at all.Those home kits are absolutely unnecessary to have, I never had them, I all ways go to professional lab and check what I use (newly bought fertilizers) and since I use EI I never check water from my tank.


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