# I need major help with lighting.



## jmowbray (Dec 7, 2009)

I have about 6 Aponogeton ulvaceus, 3 unknown ferns, and 2 Nymphaea Lotus Green. The Aponogeton leaves seem to die really quick. Some die from the tips of the leaves, to the bulb (which I think is normal), and others have dead spots develop on the leave that continue to get bigger. I treat the tank with leaf zone once and week, and have a DIY CO2 system. I have plenty fish so there should be enough food settling to the bottom for "fertilizer". Does anyone know what could be causing them to die so fast. The lilies seen to be doing fine it's just the aponogeton that look bad. I have to trim the dead ones off at least 1 a week. I know I'm way under par with the 2 watts per gallon rule. But, the problem I'm havin is that in order to get more wattage, the bulb gets bigger. I want to stay the same size bulb in my hood (which is an 18"), so the hood can still fit on the tank. Can anyone help me find a light that will work. The whole thing makes me mad b/c I grew the bulbs from on of those packs you by in the stores and got a really good batch, only two blubs out of two packs didn't grow. They also didn't bother to say the the ulvaceus needed hight light requirments. 
The tank specs. are bellow.

Tank:

25 Gallon 
Emperor 400 bio-wheel filter (hoping for a sponge filter for christmas) 
Heater (76 degree F) 
Tropic Sun 5500K Daylight bulb 
Regular aquarium gravel (also hoping for plant substrate) 
DIY CO2 system
Fish:

3 female guppies (lost 4 due to Dropsy) 
3 male guppies 
1 Sunburst Platy(lost 2 due to Dropsy) 
2 White Skirted tetras 
7 Cardinal Tetras 
6 Ghost shrimp 
1 Pleco.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

I wouldn't be looking at the light; any of those plants will do just fine in low lighting conditions. If anything I'd try increasing the K+, testing the N and P, tossing in sme trace, and if that doesn't work doubling up the DIY CO2. Figure out what's out of balance, and what's excessive, then work from there.

Retrofiting in a T5HO in would work if you still want to go higher with your light.


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## JeffyFunk (Apr 6, 2006)

Other than the ferns, the other plants (Aponogeton ulvaceus and Nymphaea Lotus Green) are both plants that often times have massive root systems. Since you have multiple of them, why not try potting 1 of them up in a container with soil capped w/ gravel and see if it fares better than the other plants in just gravel? I'd take a container (clay pot, plastic pot, container you get those lunch meats in, etc), add 1'' to 1.5'' top soil to it, bury the bulb part way down, then cover w/ 1'' gravel. Then, I'd just sink it slowly into the tank, being careful not to get any of the soil in the tank (You can practice this in a large bowl of water if you want to be sure you don't have any uncovered soil on the top of the pot). 

One of my local fish stores has Aponogeton ulvaceus (as well as cryptocorynes and large amazon swords) in pots of soil capped w/ gravel in their sale tanks and it (they) seems to be big and healthy. And since it's a fish store, the lights on those tanks are even less than what you have. 

Again, I would think the lack of a nutritious substrate would be the major problem, not the lighting.


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## Dryn (Sep 6, 2007)

I'd have to agree with Jeff; your plants (with the exception of the ferns) are all very heavy root feeders and usually don't take much out of the water column, so a soil-based substrate is best. I would recommend adding substrate fertilizer tabs at the least or using a soil-based substrate in the tank at the best.

If neither possibility strikes your fancy, you could take osmocote fertilizer pellets, roll them in oragic clay and press them into the substrate around the plants.

If a soil-based substrate is possible but you lack the funds to buy one premade, you can use organic potting soil (< $5) for about 1/2" and cover with several inches of whatever substrate you prefer. Just don't plant the plants deep enough to disturb the actual soil or you'll have algae problems.

Of course, using pot with soil (like jeff said) is also a very good idea for many reasons.

Light is less a concern than most people think (unless you are using pressurized CO2 and a regular fertilizer regime).


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## jmowbray (Dec 7, 2009)

I think I will try potting one up. The problem is I don't think my gravel substrate is deep enough to hid the pot, and I like a natural looking aquarium. But I might have a small 1' pot to try out. Thanks for the quick responses. Also the substrate I'm hoping to get is Flourite. If I use this should I still think about potting them up?


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## JeffyFunk (Apr 6, 2006)

jmowbray said:


> I think I will try potting one up. The problem is I don't think my gravel substrate is deep enough to hid the pot, and I like a natural looking aquarium.


A large (and I mean LARGE) healthy plant in a pot will look way more attractive than a dying one in your natural looking aquarium. Besides, if it works out well for you, you can very easily break down the tank (since it's only gravel) and set it up with a soil-base capped w/ either gravel or Flourite. I see no reason not to try a plant in soil substrate and a plant in Flourite. Try it and let us know how your experiment turns out! (We love pictures) Besides... you can't really "Aquascape" until you're able to grow healthy plants.


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## jmowbray (Dec 7, 2009)

I'll go ahead a give it a whirl. I'll be sure to get some before and after pics. I think I'll start this weekend. Any specific potting soil I should use?


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## jmowbray (Dec 7, 2009)

Ok I guess I got bored and did it just now. I have it in a pot with Long Fiber Sphagnum Peat topped with an inch of gravel. I will get pics. soon.


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## endgin33 (Jun 10, 2008)

I starting with a set up similar to yours with an emperor 280 on it. You may already be aware that the bio wheel is probably affecting your co2 delivery. For the best results you probably should upgrade to a non aerating filter. (Canister filters are ideal.) When I switched to one I noticed that I had an immediate response from the plants and was a worthy investment.


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## jmowbray (Dec 7, 2009)

Ok I added the potted plant last night. Does anyone know of something in LFSP? Because now all but two of my ghost shrimp are dead.


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## JeffyFunk (Apr 6, 2006)

jmowbray said:


> Ok I guess I got bored and did it just now. I have it in a pot with Long Fiber Sphagnum Peat topped with an inch of gravel. I will get pics. soon.


Do you have a picture of that substrate? I have a (bad) feeling that that particular material may not be suitable for a soil substrate. If it's a long green decorative like material, then it's not appropriate for use as a substrate. (I wonder if it may be the cause of the shrimp deaths...) Peat moss (in general) isn't really a good choice for a substrate because peat is naturally very acidic (although some people have used it for lowering the pH of their water...).

I would suggest going to your local nursery or hardware store (like Lowes or Home Depot) and pick up a bag of top soil. You want **TOP SOIL**, not manure, not soil-less potting mixes, not compost, nothing w/ lots of fertilizers (or styrofoam balls...). The Miracle Grow Organic Choice Potting Mix (The Orange/Brown bag, not the Green bag) has gotten good reviews, btw. (Peat moss is okay as part of a mixture in soils, but 100% peat is not ideal.)

Sorry to hear about the ghost shrimp .


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## jmowbray (Dec 7, 2009)

I don't have a picture, but it's not the stuff you use in floral arraignments. I use it for my Carnivorous plants. I'll have to see what other soils I have and if there not right, well I guess it's a trip to the store on this blizzard of a day.


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