# my 20 gallon log...



## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

okay so i have posted blogs on many other sites without much response back from the users but i love the feedback from everyone on here...so....here is my first blog for you...i did a 20 gallon long el natural and got everything done last night took some pics and decided to post them...

lequipment
2 20 watt flouresent bulbs 6500k(not in love with them because it looks tannin)
sponge filter and hang on back with just filter floss
heater (duh:heh

flora
to many plants 
anubias nana petite
rotala indica(i think)
rotala maca something
glosso
hydrophila sunset
bacopa
amazon sword
wisteria
some type of lily
and green cabomba

fuana
2 black angelfish
a school of baby platies 
1 female long finned albino BN
1 male calico BN

soon to be added
pair of rams from other tank

































































i thinks thats all of them...ha ha comments needed


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

14 views and nothing man i had better luck on the other sites!!!:bathbaby:


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## yum (Feb 11, 2008)

Good morning! Looks pretty good so far but the pics are small. Are they linked somewhere? I clicked on them but they didn't enlarge.

You have Glosso in there? I thought it was hard to grow glosso in low light. I'd love to see your progress with this plant so I might give it a go in my 20.

Did you add the fish all at once after the initial set up? Or did you wait?

I like your layout with the 2 main focal points.


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## guppyramkrib (Sep 5, 2007)

Great start! Fine looking tank but SLOW down on the fish.Give it a few weeks to settle down.Please post a update soon. TY


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## ItsDubC (Jan 12, 2008)

Wow, I plan on trying Rotala macrandra in an NPT because it's apparently one of the more demanding rotala species. Please keep us updated!

The sunset hygro looks very nice but I'm having trouble locating the glosso. I have glosso in my 3gal NPT w/ a 13w spiral CF and it's growing fairly steadily despite being shaded by some hornwort, but I'm definitely interested in how your glosso will do.

What substrate are you using?


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

okay sorry here is the direct link...http://s257.photobucket.com/albums/hh211/bratyboy2/ just looked at the pic on there and the pics are still small i will have new ones when you look next

okay from what i read i could add fish right away...and i dont have really any fish in there but if thats what you telling me...im leaving the platy babies and taking out the rest...i will admit that the soil im using will establish in a little over 2 weeks...i know this because i woke up this morning to a dead apistogramma in the 5 hex...must have finally spiked...

i actually bought the glosso for the tank but with my lighting your right...not sure its going to make it.so the plan now is to put it the 10 gallon im going for some small fish it going to have about 4 watts im thinking(but thats another log i will start)

im using pool filter sand over the soil...it works and was really cheap so i bought a bag for i think 6 dollars? soil was free mom bought it last year and never used it so i froze then i thawed it out in my bed room...l o n g a n d b o r i n g w a i t ugh

anyone have any ideas for the lighting? i want the tank to be brighter...no ugly yellow.

i will keep yall posted on what i do thanks for your inputs i will keep taking them!


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## yum (Feb 11, 2008)

yellow? i think it might be the particles suspended in the water.

it doesn't look like the water is very yellow to me but it might just be the picture. i'm not sure on the best spectrum for plants but i can tell you that the bulb i have that is specifically for plants looks golden and the other "standard" flourescent looks bluish. with just the "plant bulb" the tank looks yellowish, but with both on it's an even white.

on a side note: the "plant bulb" is in back over the main bulk of my plants whilst the "standard" is in front. i have some red and green algae starting to form on only the front glass. i wonder if the different spectrum is promoting the algae.


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## ItsDubC (Jan 12, 2008)

bboy, 10000K bulbs will look much whiter and a little bit bluer than 6500K bulbs, so you may want to look into those. Do NOT go w/ actinic bulbs, as these are less useful to plants and may just promote algae growth.

yum, algae can adapt to all kinds of light spectrums so I think the most likely cause for algae appearing on the front glass is simply that you don't have as much plant matter in the front to outcompete the algae for nutrients.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

well im def going to look into that 10000k i got the angels and the bn out due to ich and fin issues...so all thats in there is the platy babies

im not sure just yet what i think of the tank yet...im not totally impressed but im going to wait and see the growth of everything to say yay or nay

http://s257.photobucket.com/albums/hh211/bratyboy2/ okay the new pics will be up in seconds so take a look the phone i took them on sized them wrong


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

okay well the pics are up ready for the remarks to come...maybe changes?

ugh...

im so confused in what i want to do or add...maybe the 55 will be better


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## ItsDubC (Jan 12, 2008)

Looks good so far and it'll only get better once it starts filling in. If possible, you might try to expedite the process by buying more of the plants that you already have, which'll allow you to shape your scape more to your liking. The only thing that really struck me as odd was the rock in the front-left, which has a very straight surface compared to the other rocks in the tank. Other than that, I wouldn't get discouraged. Just give it some time.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

ill have to take a look at that...so you think i should change it? i actually cut the plants down so they would get growing...im just very eager to get the tank all filled in...but i cant seem to find anymore of the cabomba...and the red plant that is on he let(not the rotala) i think im going to buy some new ones...idky.

what fish would you say would look good in the tank? i actually have none in there now


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

i changed that rock with the onew next to it...im really not happy with the layout...can anyone give me an idea on how i should redo it for the best dramatic look...and still need fish ideas


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

I am not sure which pics to look at.

In case you don't know. There are 4 boxes on the bottom of each photo in photobucket.

You want the bottom box that has IMG

When you click on that box it automatically coppies it to your clipboard so when you are typing text in a thread, just paste and you will see a link that starts with and ends with .

That will post full sized photo's into your post and we will all be able to view them very well.

Hope this helps, it just seems to me that you may not know how this works.

Any other questions on this process, feel free to ask.

good job so far on the tank, I would have thought it to be a full sized 75 gallon (if I am looking at the right pics) so you did a good job of making the tank look much bigger.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

ha thanks....im trying


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

okay so where can i find these 10000k bulbs at? do you think i can get them just at a local pet store or does anyone know what a good brand name is? anywhoser i just picked up some new plants yesterday at work while i was rearranging the plants in the tanks...i ended up with more red plants called alternanthera reineckii, also some ludwigia repens and lobeli cardinalis, im going to redo the scape because i ended up tearing down my 10 gallon el natural and now i have more plants to play with...im thinking of adding some co2 for the fun of it and to get some better growth...over all it should be amazing.

ill be getting some pictures of the scape redo soon maybe tomarrow depending if i want to mess with the tank tonight watching will and grace, frasier, then the golden girls...oh wait its george lopez marathon week on nick at night!!! lol.
i still need your ideas i got nothing...im saving pictures of tanks but still have no clue what i want!!! 
HELP?!?!?


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## ItsDubC (Jan 12, 2008)

Hello Lights has some 10000k fluorescents for a 20L (it's 30" long, right?):

http://www.hellolights.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=503

The alternanthera will make a great focal point in your aquascape due to its color, so you might wanna consider placing it a little off-center (ie the Golden Rule). The L. repens should look pretty nice as a background plant and the lobelia is ideal for midground/foreground (if it's the small form) placement.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

thanks dub...i wich you would did this earlier i just redid the scape but i did but the one stuff off center so it wouldnt be to distracting


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

bratyboy2 said:


> thanks dub...i wich you would did this earlier i just redid the scape but i did but the one stuff off center so it wouldnt be to distracting


The 20 gal long looks nice. I'd say that you've done a nice job. Good start!

I would let the plants get a little more established before I started doing any trimming. A little patience....

Also, I wouldn't waste time finding 10,000 K lights. I've never heard of using this "off-the scale" color temperature for plants? Sunlight is 5,500K and most plant bulbs have 5,000K to 6,200K readings. The 6,500K bulbs you had were probably fine. However, I'd replace one of the 6,500Ks with a cool-white (my book, p. 180). You should get a more attractive color balance (for viewing) and better plant growth.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

i love you diana walstad!!!!!!!

that just got me happy for this tank...the only reason i trimmed the plants was because they had grew so much in the previous tank they just looked really messy...but im some what happy with the new layout.
pictures tonight i hope. and im going bulb shopping tomarrow..been a lazy day laundry and stuff thanks again


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

okay well i got the pics up so you can all see and tell me what you think now (some more people need to get on this log!!!)

http://s257.photobucket.com/albums/hh211/bratyboy2/aquaticplantcentral log/

and just for the fun of it here are some of my other pictures of my fish

http://s257.photobucket.com/albums/hh211/bratyboy2/fish shots/

i love the pictures in that tank i just need some cardinals and a bigger tank!!!!


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

okay so i got a pm that the links were not working so im having trouble getting them on the site!!! can someone help?


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

I explained it in my first post on this thread.

Click on the last line under each photo, the one that says IMG

When you click, it automatically coppies it.
Then paste it in the thread instead of copying a link to the pic, just copy the line that starts and ends with 

that will post your photo's instead of links to them.

I might have explained it better in the first post, you might want to go back and read it.

Hope this helps.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

im kinda slow but it works....

the front of the tank









the right side









left side









the cardinal plant









just a random mostly the amazing red plant and the ludwigia









the weed in my tank the rotala









red plant the flower i call it









apistogramma male i love


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## Jessie (Apr 23, 2007)

Nice tank Brad! You have a very nice collection of plants. It'll look awesome one it has grown in a little more, too. I would suggest moving the Anubias in the right hand corner and tie it to a rock, then maybe filling in the empty space with a nice Crypt or something.


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

There you go, I knew you could do it. \\/

Now I can see what you are talking about. :whoo:

Nice tank.:clap2:


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

Jessie said:


> Nice tank Brad! You have a very nice collection of plants. It'll look awesome one it has grown in a little more, too. I would suggest moving the Anubias in the right hand corner and tie it to a rock, then maybe filling in the empty space with a nice Crypt or something.


thanks jessie actually thats a cardinal plant not anubias but i think im going to add some petite to the tank anyway once i get the algae off it.

goal thanks for the help lol and thanks for the complement but do you think i should change anything or even add something?

also i need some fish ideas...the fish are in here just cause they have no home yet.


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## vspec13 (Mar 19, 2008)

Wsup man, tat's a great looking tank, what kind of subtrate did you use?


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

Did you use your flash on the camera when you took the picture?

If yes, try using just the tank light, it will let us see more of the tank, especially for the full tank shot.

Try to get another pic so I can see it better, then we can start talking fish and arrangement.

Also, do you have a photo editor? Picasa on Google is a GREAT free one. www.picasa.com I think.

This is very easy to use and will really help you sharpen, add contrast and color adjust, brighten or add shadows to really adjust the photo to more closely depict the tank.

Again, it is really easy to use, play with it for a little while and you will be amazed.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

im pumped about this pic that it came out like this...LOVE IT


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

vspec sorry its actually hydroponix soil from walmart and pool filter sand its great!thanks for the comment stop back it will be growing!!! im not changing it i actually got a good idea how its going to look all grown in!!

sorry really love my tank with this pic of it lol


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## ItsDubC (Jan 12, 2008)

Very nice man, that tank'll fill in great.

I'm tryin to get some good pictures goin of the new tank I set up, but my picture-taking/editing skills are pretty much nil lol ](*,)


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

im going to remove the sponge filter and put that in the discus tank and then get more bacopa to fill it in or maybe another plant depends....any fish ideas yet?


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

okay so im so pumped

i ordered my galaxy rasboras in today i should get them in on tuesday. so pumped i think i want some harliguens too just not sure yet want the galaxies to get a bit bu=igger they are flordia raised so pumped


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## Revernance (Aug 20, 2007)

I can't see the first set of pictures from your first post.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

yah thas what people are saying i posted the link a few more times so you should be able to get to my photo bucket from there to see. they are nothing special but the tank is growing now im not aking a pic till its all filled in so...and no galaxies they didnt come in but i found some other cool fish to maybe get we will see.

sorry no pics till it grows in a bit more give me about two weeks it woill be amazing


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## Shurik (Mar 22, 2008)

Greetings to all! :bounce:

Dear bratyboy2, I just wanted to take a peek at your tank.
eep:

Looks great to me! :clap2:

I am in the beginning of setting up my 20 gal (16” tall) and I wanted to have a NP tank. This is why I am wondering all over the place to learn about it as much as I can. 
I have to choose some plants and layout and I am really, REALLY confused about what I can get from my new Hagen light, it has 2x24w (6700 K). Yes, it is 48w per 20 gal, so mathematically it is 2.4w per gallon, but the reflector is great and I think that this HO light is more sufficient then many others. Well, maybe not. [smilie=p:

Is it OK that I am bubbling over here? I am so PUMPED too!!! :cheer2:

I don’t really have anything set up yet, because I have to order everything on line, and I have to wait for all the components to get to my house. 
Your tank looks very inspiring and also now I don’t feel like I am the only one who doesn’t have CO2 system going! eace: 

Cheers!


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

Shurik thanks for the words...the lightin the tank sounds good but i think you mignt want to get even a lil diy co2 on there because these tanks run on 2 watts or less. so thats my lil bit im setting one on my tank im having some algae issues adnd i want the plants to grow a bit faster.

a 20 high i believe is what you have they are good tanks in my opinion to plant. they have some good angles and hieght. best of luck. plant wise i have so many i think it will be a messy garden but pretty.:whoo:
i like rotala it has always proven to be a great fast grower:dance:
amazons grow quick and out of control:jaw:
and the higher light carpet plants are bad in these tanks unless you want 3 watts and you have to use co2:fish:
the tank should be special to you and the fish and plants should be happy.:icon_hang

what fish you planning for it?


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## Shurik (Mar 22, 2008)

Hello, bratyboy2. I don’t mean to hijack your thread, but thanks a lot for the reply. 

I am in the middle of trying out this Hagen light! (Its’ getting serious! :heh 

I do have another aquarium, it is a biUbe 10 gal with two gold fish (they are moving into my friends pond soon), and the tank shaped like a cylinder, 18” tall. So I fixed the lights over it just to see what it is going to be like for the plants to be exposed to it, and I guess you are right about dyi. It was on last night for 6 hours, today for about 4 hours, and cryptocoryne, moss and anubias I have in there are perling, moving and it looks like they are just about to climb out of the tank looking for food!:spider:

So now I have to read about diy (oh great! ) because you estimated it right and this light is even more intensive then just 2.4 per gal. 
What if I reduce the time lights are on? :retard:

I will trust your opinion on rotala and amazon, thanks for the advice. 

I haven’t even thought about what kind of fish I will get because I want them to be happy and first I figured I have to get all my ideas straight and establish an OK environment for them. 

If you have a minute, can you tell me what’s your choice of fish would be?

Sorry for bubbling in here so much! :typing:
I should wait for the update on your tank quietly.

Cheers! :supz:


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

Shurik...
jeez so many questions lol um...im lost no okay i think the lights are fine just from the get go you should get alot of fast growers so your stem plants are the biggest choices you have here.

the 20 will be fine but the light cycle should be from 10-12 hours a day sorry thats bad news for you lol 

fish hmm its a 20 high well i like angels but only the silver angels and the golds not the others and they have to be normal finned not those damn viel ugh:sorry:

even going with maybe 6 glo light tetras 6 cardinals 3 corys 5 otos or 1 BN and maybe the pair of silver angels or even mable ones idk its all you there

what else were we talking about here (scroll down reread)

oh i was dieing with the comment about the trying out the lights...ITS GETTING SERIOUS im rolling over here lol its just funny for some reason:rofl:


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

Shurik, Please go to this site and read all about lights and Co2 (diy and pressurized)
www.rexgrigg.com

This will help you to understand light (in more definition then WPG) and the Co2 relationship.:mrgreen:

I could type it out mostly for you, but it is conviently located on that site so no need:-D

Basically in smaller tanks (especially for your 10 gallon and at that funny shape) the WPG rule doesn't apply the same, and the WPG rule is a highly debated topic anyhow, because T5 HO watts are higher in lumens then PC and MH is higher then both (but T5 HO is not far behind with the right reflectors)

And in small tanks, like my 2.5 gallon with 27 watts, over 10wpg, it is, but it doesn't work the same, confusing, but that site will help to clear it up a bit.

Sorry Bratboy2 for jumping in on your thread with this, but you know I can't help myself to help out when I can. eace:

Tank looks good BTW, waiting for pics of your new fish.


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## Shurik (Mar 22, 2008)

I can’t help myself not to pop up again to say thanks to everyone! :bounce:

I stayed up until 5 AM :clock: reading and now I am back to more reading. :ranger:
Rex’s site is very informative. Hopefully I will get to the point of setting up my new 20 gal tall and get rid of that ridiculous 10 gal cylinder soon. :supz:
Dear Bratboy2, your thread turned out to be very helpful. 
eace:


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

Shurik, let me know when you need plants, I will send you out a pkg.
You can't be too picky, but I will make sure they are easy to grow plants that will do well for you 
to get going and not get discouraged trying to grow hard to grow plants and buying plants at the LFS or online that are not true aquatic plants.
Yes it is sad, but many of the Auction vendors sell plants that WILL die in your tank, and many of the major chain pet stores, like PetSmart and Petco, do to.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

pet supplies plus does it to but i changed that around real quick lol i do the ordering now damn it!!!! goal if your handing out plant i would love to get some lol send me a package of nice plants!!!
goal i also did not get my galaxies in im so mad
so i got some cardinals and rummy nose lol and 6 more rams (not for that tank though:mrgreen
my kribs bred YAY lol 
sorry and the plants are growing but im going to add co2 tonight


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

Well, I am not a plant bank[-(

Nah, kidding, well I am not, but there are some around.
Not that I can hand them out to EVERYBODY, but Bratboy, this is your thread so you are entitled to some of the offerings.

Actually, Brat and Shurik, My monthly AAPE meeting is tomorrow and I can tell you for sure there will be about 20 to 40 trahs bags of plants being auctioned and traded.
There will be about 5 to 6 of them that just get left behind.

What do you want. I can keep my eye out for those and see what I can't pick up for you.
Brat - shipping Monday?
Shurik, when do you want them. I can hold them in a farm tank for the mean time.

You can look thru this thread to get an idea of what will be there.
there will be MUCH more, but this is what has been stated for sure.

http://aape.naturalaquariums.com/forum/index.php?topic=2480.0

Late


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

goal tobe honest that thread was a bit over whelming to me lol 

im looking for jst some nice looking plants i eally want some already groing red tiger lotus...cant get a damn bulb to grow for nothing or even find a plant around here....

red plants are my fav or what do you have just "laying around"? lol


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

Will see, but bulbs are about all that will ship.
The leaves will die off if I ship the whole plant for sure


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## Shurik (Mar 22, 2008)

Wow! 
I almost missed this plant auction! 
This is funny, Bratyboy2, I did get overwhelmed by this thread just as well. Well, I guess it is not that difficult to “loose it” after reading Rex Grigg’s guide in such amounts.

I am not ready for any plants yet, oh… The sand I have is too fine, I have no soil yet, my CO2 is not ready and on top of everything else I am ordering everything on line because I don’t have a car (yet again)! 
Thank you for such a nice offer though, I am flattered, it really sounds great. But I will pass and order my plants I think at aquabotanic.com when I get everything done for it. Had anybody ordered from them? They do have a nice looking selection.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

goal...you could just ship one and if the leaves die at least i know the bulb will sprout more...just add a bit of water to keep wet.

any other good plants that grow fast and are pretty or interesting?
i would like some anubias or some of that grass plant everyone has these days starts with a b
and i love swords jeez i love them lol

shurik...i have not ordered from them but i was thinking about it as well...also im getting plants from goal hopfully lol so i can ship you some too when you get the tank ready i should have a lot of cuttings soon...heck i can buy you some plants from my work and ship them just send me a check lol hand selected and chipped you cant beat that!!!!! we have some amazing swords im going to pick up for myself and some other potted and bunch plants.

cars suck lol i love mine though i just got it back after 3 weeks!!!! love my beasty


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