# Starting a Live Bearer Tank with Live Plants



## mrlbem (Aug 13, 2011)

OK, I've kept fresh water tropical fish in various types of tanks since I was a kid and now with my kids. I've always liked live bearers, but I've never tried to keep them in a tank with live plants. I'd like to try that now because I always thought that live plant tanks looked beautiful and they provide natural hiding places for the fry. So I found this forum and thought I would list a few of my questions:

1. Should I even try to do this--several fish store employees have warned against keeping live bearers in a live plant aquarium because live bearers tend to eat the plants. Is this true? Are there certain types of plants that the fish are less likely to nibble on? What types of plants would you folks recommend for live bearers?

2. Is a longer tank more suitable for what I want to do or can I go go with a "high" tank, which takes up less floor space? I was thinking of going with a 56 gallon cube shaped tank.

3. Could I keep algae eating shrimp in this tank without them hurting the fish or the plants?

Thanks in advance for indulging a live plant newbie.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Hi, first off, welcome to apc! Yes, you most certainly can keep livebearers and plants together. I have kept guppies, mollies, and platties with plants. They will apparently 'nibble' at plant leaves, but I have never seen them do any damage at all to them. IMO, they're picking off microscopic algae, etc. The only time i had issues with livebearers and plants were when I caught some wild platties from a local creek. When I put them into a 10 gal planted tank, they decided they had their own little salad bar, and did eat a lot of the softer leaves. But all the fish sold at stores have been bred and raised in captivity, they will ignore plants for flakes, brine shrimp, etc. It is NOT an issue.

As to the type of plants, your imagination, desire for maintenance and tank parameters are your only limitation.

No problem maintaining algae eating shrimp in there. In my guppy tanks, I have Amanos and Cherries there. The amanos are too large to be eaten by the guppies, and they certainly don't disturb the fish. As far as the cherries, I am sure that some of the babies are eaten by the guppies, but they're very prolific, so a fairly large population is maintained.

And yes, the vegetation provides shelter for the fry, both fish and shrimp.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

I second what Bert said.

Your main problem in a planted live bearer tank might be overpopulation, depending of the species. My original 10 Endler's would have become thousands had I not taken action. Instead there are now just a few hundred. 

You would probably find it easier to grow plants in a lower tank, because the light would be able to penetrate deeper.

Good luck!

Bill


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## frog111 (Feb 14, 2006)

I keep a tank in my wife's classroom stocked with livebearers. Never had a problem with fish eating the plants.

The tank size will dictate the light you need and the plants you can raise. Some Najas species are called guppy grass for a reason .


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## GregT (Jan 31, 2011)

I keep Platys in a heavy planted tank. The up side is that the nibble on new algae and leftover food on plant leaves. I have never seen them damage any type of plant I've kept. Down side is you're going to need an sell them often!


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## mrlbem (Aug 13, 2011)

First of all, thanks for all the replies. I have purchased a 65 gallon tank and have selected the Trinity HO fixture for lighting.

The guy at the LFS who sold me this has, surprisingly, not tried to sell me their more expensive CO2 systems. He recommended the system he uses in his 65 gallon planted tank in the store, which is the Nutrifin system and allegedly calibrated for nothing larger than a 20 gallon tank. Can this be right? I saw for myself--he's got only the one unit along with the best lighting set up in the store, and it seems to be working fine in the store's planted tank. 

Should I get the Nutrifin or should I get something more elaborate (as well as something designed for a 65 gallon tank)?

Thanks again for the replies.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Get a regular CO2 system. You can rent tanks from welding suppliers. Make sure you have a good needle valve so that you can dial in your CO2. I got all mine from greenleafaquariums.com. Orlando has been great. Unless your are a DIY guy (I'm not) it's worth it to buy from someone who knows what they are doing.

BTW :welcome: Glad you joined us!


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## mrlbem (Aug 13, 2011)

Some other basic questions I have are:

1. Generally, I add one teaspoon of aquarium salt per 5 gallons. Does that rule of thumb hold true with a planted tank or does the salt harm the plants?

2. Should I cycle the tank before adding the plants or otherwise wait until the chlorine in the water evaporates before adding the plants?

3. I assume I should add the plants first and then gradually add increasing numbers of fish thereafter?

Picking up the tank, stand and lighting this weekend. After that, I intend to order the substrate from aquariumplants.com. Then the filter (thinking of the Eheim 2215--if there are other suggestions, please let me know), heater, CO2 system, etc.


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## ddavila06 (Jan 31, 2009)

1 i dont know lol
2you can add plants right after setting up, for what i read plants help cycle the tank and such..just make sure to dechlorinate the water
3 you are right, gradually add fish later on.

welcome to the forum!!


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## mrlbem (Aug 13, 2011)

One more question. As I said, I'm planning on live bearers and one (or more) species of dwarf shrimp. What about catfish, like a few cory's? My concern is that they end up digging up plants when they scavenge at the bottom. Valid concern?


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

I've never found Cories to be plant diggers. Having said that, though, if you try to plant some very small ground covers, then most any fish becomes a problem. 
Regarding one of your prior questions, I've kept guppies, and platties and never added any salt to the tanks. Never had problems, lots of babies. Have had my current crop of half black guppies now for several years.


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## mrlbem (Aug 13, 2011)

Tex Gal said:


> Get a regular CO2 system. You can rent tanks from welding suppliers. Make sure you have a good needle valve so that you can dial in your CO2. I got all mine from greenleafaquariums.com. Orlando has been great. Unless your are a DIY guy (I'm not) it's worth it to buy from someone who knows what they are doing.
> 
> BTW :welcome: Glad you joined us!


Hey all. It's been a slow process, but I have most of my equipment and now I'm ready to buy the CO2 system. I've taken Tex Gal's advice and contacted Green Leaf Aquarium. I am leaning toward the Atomic Paintball system. One more question--does it pay to spend $65 extra for the solenoid valve? What advantage would that give the tank? Thanks again for all the help.


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## mrlbem (Aug 13, 2011)

Help!!! Can someone provide advice as to why I can't prime my Eheim Pro 3 in the tank I'm trying to set up? When I push the prime button once or twice, I get a little flow down the intake tube, but that's it. Would excess sediment from the substrate affect priming (I rinsed it, but there's still a lot of sediment in the tank). Could it be there's too much slack in the tubing? The water level is within 3 inches from the top of the aquarium, so I don't think that's it. Anybody have any suggestions? It's not like I can take the setup back to the LFS to have them look at it. It's very frustrating.


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## mrlbem (Aug 13, 2011)

Been a while, but the tank is ready to go. With one problem. The water here on Long Island is usually alkaline out of the tap. But due to the drftwood and the substrate (perhaps), the pH is down to 6. This leaves no room for adding CO2 without really bringing down the pH to dangerous levels. Any suggestions as to what I should use for a buffer? LFS recommended Seachem. Any thoughts?


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## D9Vin (May 12, 2011)

What kind of substrate? How much driftwood? Have you checked the ph from the tap? It seems like a pretty big dip for wood or substrate...


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## mrlbem (Aug 13, 2011)

D9Vin said:


> What kind of substrate? How much driftwood? Have you checked the ph from the tap? It seems like a pretty big dip for wood or substrate...


Large piece of Malaysian driftwood. Aquariumplants.com substrate. I know the ph from the tap is alkaline (about 7.4) because of experience with my daughter's 10 gallon tank. The water has been running through the filter in my tank for a month. Altthough maybe it's the fact that in fooling around with the CO2 system, I released a lot of CO2 initially into the tank? I figure I have to get the pH up to about 7.5 before I can add CO2 at this point. What kind of a buffer would work?


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Regarding your pH readings, are you using a probe or pH paper? If you're using a probe, make sure you standardize it with a known pH 7.0 standard. Also, when you measure your tap water, do you measure straight out of the tap, or do you let it sit for a few hours at room temp and then measure it? Often you have gas in the system from the water pressure which can affect your reading. I also fin9d it hard to believe that you see a drop of 1.0 pH unit just from the wood.

Many folks have very soft water, which tends to be acidic and they still use CO2, which can drop the pH down into the high 5's. The pH does drop during the photoperiod when the CO2 is running, but in the long run, it does not seem to affect the fish. Most folks will typically tell you not to use a buffer in the tank.

My 2 cents. HTH


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## mrlbem (Aug 13, 2011)

Bert H said:


> Regarding your pH readings, are you using a probe or pH paper? If you're using a probe, make sure you standardize it with a known pH 7.0 standard. Also, when you measure your tap water, do you measure straight out of the tap, or do you let it sit for a few hours at room temp and then measure it? Often you have gas in the system from the water pressure which can affect your reading. I also fin9d it hard to believe that you see a drop of 1.0 pH unit just from the wood.
> 
> Many folks have very soft water, which tends to be acidic and they still use CO2, which can drop the pH down into the high 5's. The pH does drop during the photoperiod when the CO2 is running, but in the long run, it does not seem to affect the fish. Most folks will typically tell you not to use a buffer in the tank.
> 
> My 2 cents. HTH


Thanks. This morning, the meter reads 6.7. The pH test kit come out a light green or about 6.5. I did calibrate the probe last night and again this morning. Could the reading last night have been due to a blast of CO2 I sent into the tank when I was checking out the needle valve? Also, pH right out of the tap is 7.4, a solid blue color.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

A single blast of CO2 would not immediately drop your pH any measurable amount, imo. Keep in mind that 30ppm of CO2 will drop the pH of the tank water approximately 1.0 pH unit. If you're uncomfortable dropping it a whole unit to reach 30ppm, go for 20 or 25 ppm. You'd have to calculate approx how much of a pH drop that would be. I have read in Amano's tanks, that these are not uncommon CO2 numbers to have. There is wiggle room to work with, and you can always adjust one way or another as needs arise, or your plants/fish dictate. 

If livebearers are your final goal, as I recall from early on your post, I do not believe you'll have any problems. I used to run 30 ppm CO2 24/7 for years with guppies and believe me, there was never a shortage of fries in the tank.


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## mrlbem (Aug 13, 2011)

The pH problem is taken care of, but I still feel totally out of my league. The plants arrived today and because my tank (65 gallon) is a tall tank, planting the plants is difficult. I don't quite have the reach to get to the bottom. Should I siphon water out of the tank or will plant weights/anchors do the trick? The substrate is not that heavy, so it's hard to keep the plants from coming out and floating. Once again I thank any and all of you for your advice.


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## mrlbem (Aug 13, 2011)

The plants are in and the CO2 system seems to be working. Yeterday, I purchaed 8 swordtails with which I plan to cycle the tank. Should I just let the tank cycle naturally or should I add nutrafin cycle to speed up the process? Should I be adding more fish at this point to aid in cycling or wait until the biological filter is up and running?


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Ive never used any cycling products, so can't comment on it. I've always had my tanks cycle naturally. I would not add any more fish until cycling is complete.


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