# Algae fiasco - losing the battle



## Fiasco (Apr 7, 2009)

*Hi planted tank enthusiasts,*
I am new to the forum here at apc. I've been following many threads for the last year or so trying to get my 25H in the shape it deserves. I want to commit to a larger and more spectacular setup, but I can't justify the expense until I am convinced I can master the current tank. Forgive the length of this post. I just want to make sure you have all the details.

I have had this tank up and running for about 2 years now. In that time I have upgraded almost all the components in it, and I'm at the point where I get the algae under control or I convert to a low light, no co2, plastic plant tank (I'm undecided at this point if that tank will have water in it - as I figure this is the only sure-fire way to rid myself of algae)

*Here is the current setup:*
25gallon (High)
2x24w HO T5 (one 10,000k / one 6700k/ 6 hours a day)
Eheim Ecco 2236 
DIY CO2 w/ DIY inline co2 reactor

*Plants: *
a couple corkscrew val
a java fern
an anubias barteri
a couple amazon swords
some sort of hydrocotyle
Echinodorus tenellus ( I think)
one alternanthera reineckii ( I think )
and some glossostigma elatinoides scattered up front

*Water tests (according to my Nutrafin test kits)*
PH 6.7
NO3 10-20ppm
KH 70ppm
GH 140ppm
FE 0.5 ppm (as accurate as that may be)
CO2 20-30ppm (according to KH and PH calculation - this is an average over a 2 week period depending on how fresh the yeast is. New yeast = 40ppm co2. old = 20ppm)

I dose using Nutrafin Plant Gro fertilizer and their Iron/Trace mix 2 times per week to keep the levels in the recommended ranges according to the EI dosing method. I do one 50% water change per week.

I've been fighting all types of algae since putting this thing together. As you can see in the photos below.

I'm not even sure what type(s) I'm dealing with now. Maybe a combo of clad and hair with the remnants of blue/green algae ??? My plants are doing well. As you can see in the sword and java photo, they're pearling and producing quite a bit of oxygen (solid stream of bubbles seen coming from sword). The reason they look the way they do right now is beacause I trim them quite heavily from time to time to get rid of the heavily infested areas, but as well/fast as they grow the algae seems to do better. Yesterday I started dosing with excel to hopefully help control it. I think that one of my problems is that I'm constantly changing things to try to battle the algae, so It's never a stable system.

After all that, here are my questions:

*1. Can someone id my algae?
2. How do I rid my tank of it without starting over?
3. Looking at my specs, what's causing it? *

All I want is a sexy looking tank to greet me when I return home from a long day at the office. I look forward to hearing all your feedback. Thanks in advance for all the advice!

_Fiasco.
_


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

It's BBA. More CO2 with better flow and dispersement of such throughout the tank. BBA also caused by flucuatiing CO2 which is common with DIY CO2 systems. Remove ALL the leaves you can where you see BBA. And I mean ALL. Start over-dosing Excel (but bye-bye vals I'm afraid), spot treat any new BBA as yo usee it with H202 or Excel. Raise lights a tad but increase photoperiod to 8 hours.


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## Fiasco (Apr 7, 2009)

Hey rich, thanks for the advice.
I'll try a heavy trim and see what I can get away with not killing. I'd hate to trim back everything to a nub... as an alternative solution, would you recommend a quick bleach bath and scrub for some of the hardier plants instead of a heavy prune? The vals grow like weeds so I'm not too cocerned with replacing those. 

As for the DIY CO2, I find that it's relatively easy keeping the CO2 concentration in the tank above 20ppm, so even though it fluctuates over the course of 2 weeks (from 40ppm to 20ppm), shouldn't it still be enough to not be the limiting factor of plant growth?

I'll keep you posted on how things are progressing. 

Fiasco


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

In addition to the algae that fluctuating CO2 can lead to, it can also result in distorted growth in many plants. But, back to the algae, your list of plants doesn't appear to include any fast growing bunch plants, so since you're keeping your CO2 above 20ppm (albeit, inconsistently) and you don't have a fast growing group of plants with that reasonable amount of light and CO2, it isn't too surprising that you're having algae issues. I'd follow what rich suggests, add some bunch plants to have a heavier growth to outcompete the algae and then at the same time, consider pressurized CO2. I think those measures will resolve this problem.


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## Fiasco (Apr 7, 2009)

Just an update... for the past week or so, I've been dosing with excel, increased my photo period, bleached the plants I thought could handle it, and trimmed the remainder quite a bit. I've also planted a couple rotala rotundifolia for some faster growth and to replace the vals I lost to the excel. However the loss is worth the victory over the BBA. It seems to have receeded and become far more manageable. But it seems I am still dealing with two other types of algae; rhizoclonium, and GDA.

I'm going to try to wait out the cycle of the GDA to see how that works and as for the rhizoclonium... I'm looking into how to treat that one. I'm getting mixed advice on various message boards. I'm cleaning it off during water changes as much as possible and it seems to be loosening its grip on the grasses and gravel and the algae/amano shrimp seem to be trying to help.

In the mean time I'm looking for an inexpensive source for a co2 tank and related hardware. Any advice on where to purchase in Canada?


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## ecotanker (Jun 12, 2009)

I have several unwanted algae in my tank and am currently fighting them following the suggestion that Diana Walstad put forth in her book. It seems to be working.

Basically, her method involve getting rid of iron from the water column. 
Which means stop dosing traces containing iron. Use charcoal to remove dissolve organic carbon since those compounds can serve as a storage system of iron, slowly releasing it into the water. If it it necessary, use root tabs containing iron. 

You may want to add some floating plants, like water lettuce, dwarf water lettuce, red root floater or even duckweed to serve as nutrient sponges. These floating plants are fast growers, faster than submerged plants, so if you can't get them get some fast growing submerged plants like you have already started doing.

I would also recommend reading Diana' books, "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium", very informative even if you have not set up your tank according to her system.


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## Fiasco (Apr 7, 2009)

ecotanker said:


> I would also recommend reading Diana' books, "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium", very informative even if you have not set up your tank according to her system.


Thanks ecotanker, 
A very informative read. I'll be trying some of the suggestions as well. Keep me posted on how it's working for you.


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## OrangeCones (Aug 15, 2009)

I do DIY CO2 also, and had the same issues you had. I solved it (can't remember who PMd the recommendation, was a few years ago) by this method: 

Since I speculated that I was getting fluctuations in my CO2 due to the freshness of my yeast, I ran two seperate bottles. I started #1 week 1, #2 week 2, restarted #1 week 3, restarted #2 week 4, etc. 

That way, I always had one with 'fresh' yeast and one with 'older' yeast. It seemed to help keep things more stable. Not as stable as a pressurized system to be sure, but for a 20 and 29 gallon tank, it works well for me. 

I initally had one bottle set up for each tank, but with the new method, I still have the same two bottles, but split the output between the two tanks (each bottle supplies CO2 to both tanks). May not work for everyone, but helped me. I've not had any algae in those two tanks to speak of in well over 3 years now. [smilie=b:


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## armedbiggiet (May 6, 2006)

2. How do I rid my tank of it without starting over?

Lots water change or should I say more frequent water change. 1/3 is enough each time and every day if you have to to make it under control. Trim off the part with BBA before you do this... once there are in the water(which your eye cant really see them) they are every where so that is why water change is so important to prevent new BBA. 

Add any fertilizer only when you needed to, learn to read what plants need instead follow what the labels said.


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## Fiasco (Apr 7, 2009)

Alright. It's been about 3 weeks since my last post. This is just another update. In short, I was seeing great progress with the following regimen: 

- 40-50% water changes a couple times a week. 
- daily double dosing with excel
- fertilizing with plant gro NPK only after water changes. 
- stopped dosing iron (and subsequently the trace minerals that came with it )
- removed any stubbornly infested algae covered leaves (just the ones that couldn't be removed easily manually) about 3 times a week (mostly with water changes)
- I did not scrape or clean the glass to allow the GDA to live out it's life cycle

In this time I witnessed a few things happen. The GBA almost entirely stopped spreading and the remains were cleaned up readily by the algae shrimp. The water column was almost crystal clear, but it was hard to see through the thick GDA coating on all sides of the glass. And the plants were all still flourishing nicely. 

All that was great until about a week ago when i ran out of ferts and got too lazy to change my co2. That's when the hair algae returned. I'm again seeing a lot of algae growth on the gravel. My co2 tank arrived today. I decided it was too much work to continue the DIY co2 and decided to invest in a system I can use on a larger tank in the future. When that's set up I'll hopefully see the end of the last bit of algae. We'll see. I'll keep you posted with some updated pics once I have some. Any other suggestions are appreciated.


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## armedbiggiet (May 6, 2006)

In that case you still keep doing the water change to get rid off the remain CO2 in the water and stop introduce any CO2 untill the new system arrived. Inconsistent of the CO2 not just creating your algae problem, once you stop it PH sometime crash and things go even worse... BBA do less active in lower PH water.



Fiasco said:


> Alright. It's been about 3 weeks since my last post. This is just another update. In short, I was seeing great progress with the following regimen:
> 
> - 40-50% water changes a couple times a week.
> - daily double dosing with excel
> ...


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## Fiasco (Apr 7, 2009)

Alright, It's been a few months now and I'm really seeing some progress. Check out the attached before and after photos. There are still some very minor issues to address but I feel the majority of the algae issues are now in check. 

A very appreciative THANK YOU to everyone that shared their expertise and experience!

To anyone else interested in what I did to lick the problem, here's how I did it: 

1) Asked the members of APC for help which led me to:
2) Trim everything pretty heavily and add some Faster growing plants. 
3) Make sure the CO2 is delivered consistently. I ditched the pop bottles in favour of a cylinder and regulator. For me this was worth every penny in time saved not having to deal with weekly sticky, smelly yeast changes. That isn't to say the DIY CO2 doesn't work. It just didn't work for me due to lack of proper maintenance. 
4) Make sure to stick to a proper fertilization schedule. For me this meant purchasing dry ferts and mixing my own solutions so that I can simply dose one liquid daily. The easier it is, the more likely I'll stick to it. So for now it's 1tbsp of either NPK or Trace solution per day.
4)Water changes - I am dosing according to the EI method. So I'm doing regular 50% water changes weekly. Initially when I began this battle I was doing 2 20% water changes in addition to the weekly 50% change. Removing any algae I could. 

That's about it. It took a while but I'm very pleased with the results to date - and things are getting better daily. 

Thanks again everyone!
Fiasco.


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

You did one great job...Bravo!


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

I think you should get a medal of valor!!! Incredible before and after pxs.

Patience is a real factor here. Nothing is solved in a day! Great job!


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## mikslik (Sep 30, 2009)

I probably would have scrapped it and started over! Nice work, good for future reference


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Fiasco,

Good job getting things cleaned up and thank you for posting what you did to accomplish it for others.


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## jinsei888 (Apr 20, 2009)

Definitely something to be proud of! Well done Fiasco!


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