# For those who have followed my work, PLEASE help me!



## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

Today I was informed by my Resident Assistent that Claremont Mckenna College has decided they *do not want me bringing back my 60cm aquarium to the residence hall next year.* In other words, it is possible that I might not do another 60cm layout for the next two years. 

I talked to the Director of Residential Life, and he informed me that the decision was absolute. The tank is 8 gallons over the 10 gallon limit (which I guess I did not know about). I was also informed that there had been accusations that my aquarium had caused the dorm to smell bad. We all know this is propostorous. If the floor smells bad, it's because the kids come in and trash it every week with beer, *****, and garbage. Plants remove ammonia-- unflushed toilets do not. *In any case, it seems it has become impossible for me to have my 60cm next year in my room.*

But there is a glimmer of hope.

The director told me that if I was willing, he would try and find a place where the aquarium could be set up in another facility like the science building or one of the other buildings. Since I explained aquascaping to him, and showed him my work, he came to understand that it was art, and thus believed it would be very possible to make such an arrangement.

What I want from you all though, is to help me underline how important it is. I would ask that all those who want to see another aquascape from me in the fall please e-mail the Director of Residential Life and the Dean of Students and explain how you've followed my work and want to see more of it. Please help them understand the importance and splendor of aquascaping. I ask that you help me make sure they see this as an important matter, and one that should be taken to all lengths to make possible.

Ethan Andyshak,
Director of Residential Life
*e-mail: [email protected]*

David "Fid" Castro
Assistant Dean of Students & Dean of Returning Students
*e-mail: [email protected]*

I realize this post is flat out arrogance and presumptiousness. I realize this is a very selfish request, and this might not even be the right place to post-- but I'm in desperate need of help. I'm feeling devastated and uncertain. I'm making a plea to the community of aquascapers and planted aquarium hobbyists to please help me in my time of need.

Claremont is a great school with a go-get-'em attitude-- we live "Work Hard Play Hard." We believe that our students are the tough-minded type who passionately pursue their dreams. Please convince them I should be able to pursue mine.

I appreciate your time,

Steven Chong


----------



## Dewmazz (Sep 6, 2005)

Aww, dude. WEAK.
I'll write my "letter of reccomendation" by this evening. I'll PM you with the draft before I send it if you want. I sorta look to you as a pseudo-mentor; I see aspects of the Islands reflected in your work. I'm more than happy to help.


----------



## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Done and done, Steven.....I'll bump this periodically throughout the night to make sure it gets it's due attention.

Thank you for all of your work, perspective, advice, and insights. I hope that we can bug them enough to allow you to continue your art for yourself and us in a comfortable setting (which happens to be your dorm room). I hope more people will pay attention to this thread!!! It would be to all of our benefit if you are allowed permission to contiue your work, unhindered, while you are at school for art.


----------



## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

Thank you Donald and Dewmazz. You guys have my undying gratitude. Mahalo.

To all others who write for me, my gratitude goes out to you as well.


----------



## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

I'll put in a good word. A properly setup aquarium should not smell if the tank is covered.


----------



## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

**Bump** (As promised)


----------



## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

One last time for tonight....I've gotta get to bed. Please read Steven's post at the beginning!!
**BUMP**


----------



## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Steven,

I sent an email to both of those addresses as well as PMed a copy to you. I find it ridiculous, though I tried to word it very diplomatically, that your aquarium could be blamed for the the standard dorm stench. Even further, it annoys me that "ah, gez your like a few gallons over the limit we set" but I bet, having known several RA, floor managers, etc that they don't do a damn thing about all the drinking, partying and a$$enine behavior that goes on. The reason that aquariums are a "danger" is only due to the stupid things they allow to happen in the dorms.

Anyway, you read my PM. It was late so I hope I wrote a satisfactory plea on your behalf.


----------



## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

Dennis, that e-mail is amazing. 

Donald, I can't believe how many times you bumped this thread. 

Furballi, thanks for your support as well.

I just want to say again though that I don't want to cause trouble for the members at APC, I don't want you all to think that the smell accusations are the main issue (because really it's the size issue apparently), and last I don't want them to have to break the rules for me necessarily.

It'd be nice-- but I'm perfectly happy setting it up somewhere else on campus. If that's the best for everyone, than it's completely fine with me. I just want to make sure that they do find a place, and realize the importance to me (and hopefully to some others in our community)that they do.

Thanks everyone T-T I'm touched


----------



## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

I drafted this, Steven. Is it ok for you?



> *Hi,
> 
> I'm writing this e-mail to express how important I believe it is that Steven Chong is allowed to keep his aquarium in your college.
> 
> ...


----------



## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

Is it possible you could involve the school by starting an aquascaping club / planted aquarium club? Showing a willingness on your part to make an effort to help put together something like this might help to convey to the school the extent of your seriousness. Also, it looks good on your resume to be the President of a club in college anyhow.  

I'm a system fighter deep inside, but as I get older I'm learning (sometimes the hard way) that you just have to work with the system sometimes.


----------



## Squawkbert (Jan 3, 2007)

10g limit? Since when?!? I'm a Pomona grad. (c/o '86).

I'm certain, that if you have to, you could relocate your tank to a joint sciences lab if need be. Personally, I'd just bring it back anyway as you're probably going to wind up in a different hall/dorm/suite next year and whoever complained won't be right there with you. You'll probably draw a much higher number, so you can work out a single or 2 room double or something.

If someone does complain, go emersed (leaving 8 gal of air at the top of the tank). If that doesn't work, then move it to a science lab.

Also be willing to divulge the approximate locations of a few of the (usually numerous) cats living in the dorms. When I went to Pomona (with 2 snakes, a parrot anda 20g tank and sometimes a cat), all the RAs ever worried about were cats.

Does CMC have any "off campus" housing like Pomona does (the themed houses - Kosher Kitchen etc. etc.). They would allow a tank...

SMBS. Don't compromise your personal liberties. If you have to, remind them that Pitzer has no such artistic restrictions in their (nice, spacious, carpeted) dorms...(my wife - Pitzer c/o '86).


----------



## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

lol people on this forum are much nicer than plantedtank.net
bump!
ground control to steven chong


----------



## ianmoede (Jan 17, 2005)

Heh, the I'm impressed mods here have nice things to say, and are supportive.


----------



## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

George, I deeply appreciate the letter my friend. It is wonderful.

AaronT-- I would love to start a club! The trouble is in the members I think though . . . I can't help but think that if there were people in the 5Cs doing aquascaping, we'd probably have found each other . . . (I mean, they have to come to APC to keep up with the latest greates planted aquarium news right!?) Maybe I should at least look into it and offer though.

Squawkbert-- That's great! lol CMC doesn't have all the same wide housing options like Pomona . . . and we've already done room draw so I guess it's not avoidable. I'm too young to live in the apartments, and even if I weren't I doubt the rules would be different there. About Pitzer, the Director mentioned possibly finding housing for it somewhere over there too when we talked.

As for just setting it up, I guess I don't have the guts to flat-out defy the rules. ^^;

Felix/Ian-- Well, people are entitled to say and think what they want . . .


----------



## Jason Baliban (Feb 21, 2005)

Are we kidding here?!!!?

I think its rediculous to ask people from a forum to write and institution on THEIR rules. Lets all grow up a little bit here. Rules are in place to be there, not to be broken. It does suck that you cant have your tank where you want it, but to ask for such a favor is in bad taste.

On the other hand, to ask for some advice on how to handle it is a great thread!!  And, for the most part, i think everyone here and on PT has given some great advice on how to approach it. I suggest you follow these suggestions instead of starting a SPAM war, you will be respected much more with that approach.

I really am not trying to be harsh..... I really do feel for you steven, but you have to be realistic. It would be like me asking you all to send letters to my work because i cant have a tank at my desk, or asking you to send letters to the police dept cause i got a ticket driving home to fast from the LFS with livestock.

Best of luck....im sure you will figure something out.  

jB


----------



## ianmoede (Jan 17, 2005)

jB, think about the real world. Rules are there until someone with enough clout, money, influence, power, whatever, has a justifiable (or unjustifiable in the case of money  ) reason to request a change in the rules. If i were this kids RA, regardless of whether or not I was the aquarist that i am, i have serious doubts that i would nail him to a cross because his tank was 8 gallons over. How many laypeople can even tell the difference between a 10 gallon and an 18 gallon tank? Does that 8 gallons make more of a stink/mess than a 10 gallon? Doubtful is the answer to all of these questions. SC, I think that the emailing of them maybe was not super wise, but you're still young, you're allowed to make mistakes. Just be nice to them, raise some of the valid points brought up here about why the rules are a little silly, and that you're fastidious about keeping things clean. Show them pictures. I think you're argument is prett convincing.


----------



## Jason Baliban (Feb 21, 2005)

ianmoede said:


> jB, think about the real world. Rules are there until someone with enough clout, money, influence, power, whatever, has a justifiable (or unjustifiable in the case of money  ) reason to request a change in the rules.


I'm pretty sure Steven has none of these...that is part of growing up and earning what you have. Steven, you will always gain more respect by achieving your goals within the rules rather then breaking them to get what you want.

Just my opinion.

Good luck

jB


----------



## ianmoede (Jan 17, 2005)

I shouldve added drive to that. Steven has drive.


----------



## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

I agree with Jason to the point that it makes us all look like a bunch of nerds! But, if the letter writing helps you get what you want, and you can live with the consequences whatever they may be, then go for it. I have always lived my life going against the institution, whatever it may be. You just have to pick your battles sometimes.


----------



## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

Jason, I am sorry but I have to disagree with you.
This is a Democracy, and it is built on WE THE PEOPLE, not YOU THE RULERS.
Should we not write our congressman and politicians to tell them how we feel about unfair rules, or things that matter most to us personally, after all they are OUR representatives. The 10-gallon rule is probably in place because somebody at some time said; this is a good Cut-off size. If it is pointed out that that rule could be changed, or could be bent for Metric sized aquariums, then where is your cut-off size, why not make it a 60p. Unless there is enough IMFORMED PUBLIC to go PUBLIC, this CAN NOT HAPPEN.

Communication between the masses and the leaders is ALWAYS encouraged.

Granted we are talking about a small issue here, but it is in no way REDICULOUS

And Steven has stated that he will not BREAK the rule, which ever way it goes.


----------



## Jason Baliban (Feb 21, 2005)

What you say is true and indeed part of our great country.

However, we are in no way involved and have no baring on what his school does or decides. To involve people not associated with the school or more specifically that dorm is ridiculous. If they were outlawing and prosecuting aquarist, then I could see a point. However, they are not. It would be like a man living in Mexico signing a petition for snow removal in NYC.

In this case, it is ridiculous. IMO

jB


----------



## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

Well, we will have to see.

If it ends up working, then it was not rediculous.

IMO, it is still worth a try but I respect your opinion.


----------



## Jason Baliban (Feb 21, 2005)

And of course....i respect yours 

jB


----------



## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Goalcreas, trust me, there are always consequences to every action, and there are always people who will take it upon themselves to try to inflict those consequences upon those they feel deserve it, whether it is any of their business or not. What will dorm life be like for Steven after this? You have to admit, it is a little wierd to have people, total strangers, not connected with the school to get involved in what some people would call a trivial issue. This is not a political issue. Thats why you need to pick your battles, but if this is the battle Steven wants to fight, then thats his business.


----------



## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

Robert Hudson said:


> Thats why you need to pick your battles, but if this is the battle Steven wants to fight, then thats his business.


Exactly, so we need not be the ones to harras him for it.

And still, there is no reason that an argument for the 60p being the standard METRIC tank allowed in a dorm is not presented.

And who would be making his dorm life a problem who is not already at least trying.

I would think it weird if he went on a NASCAR fan forum, or an MLB fan forum and asked people to help him fight this battle, but he is here on a planted tank forum asking informed people to help enlighten the situation.

And I will add, that I did not send a letter on his behalf, because I don't see the plight in doing so.
But let him do as he wishes.

I do see that there might be better ways to go about it also.


----------



## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Steven I wish you the best of luck with this situation. However, I am in agreement with Jason and Goalcreas. I believe sending spam email is an inappropriate action in this case, and may ultimately hurt your cause.

I believe you would be better served if you get letters of support from your fellow friends, dorm residents, and other members of importance who are affiliated with your college. *Create a clean looking package/profolio that contains chapters of the following:*

Your Request for an Exception (describing educational benefits related to keeping planted aquariums, artistic merit, insurance of tank safety, and community benefits)
Profolio of Aquascapes
Letters of Support (friends, dorm residents, and Art/Science professors)
This package will demostrate your professionalism and commitment to the biological and artistic education showing that your aquarium is a benefit to the full college/dorm community, and an inspiration to learning. This effort will be more enticing to read through and take up for consideration. If your request gets denied, think about aquascaping a challenging smaller sized tank.

Best of luck,

-John N.


----------



## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Jason Baliban said:


> .....we are in no way involved and have no baring on what his school does or decides.


Some of us are.

I am accutely aware of the need for rules and regulation, trust me on that. But when one believes in the cause, no matter how "ridiculous" it may be to others, then one must act with one's own integrity.

If I can help Steven here then I will do what I can to help. Rules can be bent. Sometimes they need to be. IMHO.


----------



## Jason Baliban (Feb 21, 2005)

Ehh.... I still dont see the point. Its not like they are saying no to all tanks. Do a smaller one....like robert says, pick your battles. Put the tanks away for a year. Take up painting, wood carving, guitar....a practice in art is a practice in art. Use a 10 gallon for a year of experimenting with nutrients and light. That will certainly help his "career" in aquascaping.

IMO, this is just whining. Do you petition your work to wear shorts if you cant? NO!!!

HAHA

Interesnting thread that i think certainly shows a difference in age. Not a bad thing.....just interesting.

My opinion still stands. This is a rediculous request. There are still many ways to practice art. Steven has the inner skill to do that.....whining about 8 gallons is just as bad as cutting you off at 8 gallons.

Let it go

jB


----------



## stepheus (Jun 13, 2006)

I believe that rules should be made only when a reasonable person gets himself to abide in it, knowing that the same rule applies to the other as well. I don’t believe that there should be rules to restrict someone from doing something absolutely good. Btw we don’t petition to wear shorts at work the same way I wouldn’t petition bring in a 100 gallon tank, because it is not reasonable! You get the point. There have been some good flaws spotted on the rules already, so I am not going to pick on it. Only dead fish goes with the flow. With all due humility, I do respect your opinions JB, but at the end of the day, it is up to Steven to handle his situations. We shouldn’t make decisions for him. All we can do is to make suggestion on how to make things better for all parties.

I know how Steven feels. I ve been in your situation before. So, when I saw your words rallying an email campaign to the authorities of your school regarding the whole situation, trust me, I got myself thinking of the contents of the email already. However, when I saw the posts that the recipients hold, I had second thoughts. 

Irritancy is certainly the last emotion that you want to provoke out of an assistant to Dean and the officer that keeps the hostel incheck. They go through a lot more situations when it comes to dealing with students – and their stress levels will certainly rise consistent with the number or rebellion sent to their inboxes. I being in a student council before know. When a battle has already been picked, make sure it is fought with utmost care and subtleness.

John N certainly has a point. I would follow his suggestions head on. Carefully planned public petitions and mails from an editor of a fishkeeping magazine and other reputable persons would definitely help. And if there is room for compromise with the authorities, please do. 

p/s: I ve followed through your work and feel that it ll definitely be a loss if you were not given the opportunity to do a tank for the next year or two. It ll undoubtedly be a loss to the community, if you don’t strut your magic. I pray that everything goes well, and that situations will get much better tomorrow or the next time you speak to the authorities. All the best.


----------



## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

If noone stood up to rules, we would still have slavery and degradation of women!!
you want that?
just think of steven as a sufregette


----------



## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

> The director told me that if I was willing, he would try and find a place where the aquarium could be set up in another facility like the science building or one of the other buildings. Since I explained aquascaping to him, and showed him my work, he came to understand that it was art, and thus believed it would be very possible to make such an arrangement.





> *I don't want them to have to break the rules for me necessarily.
> *
> It'd be nice-- but I'm perfectly happy setting it up *somewhere else on campus. *If that's the best for everyone, than it's completely fine with me. I just want to make sure that they do find a place, and realize the importance to me (and hopefully to some others in our community)that they do.


This is all interesting discussion, but I don't think the stuff on breaking rules applies, because I'm not looking to break the rules, or asking anyone to request a change of rules. I just wanted to underline how important it would be to me that a place could be found for the aquascape.

For that, it seems like enough e-mails have probably been sent already, so people can stop. If the admins/mods want to take this thread out, they can too. Thanks all

I really don't want to argue . . . right now, I'm already feeling too burnt out, tired, and empty to really say anything in my defense . . . so everyone just feel free to draw whatever conclusions you want, do what you want-- help me, don't help me, or anything.


----------



## Aquaspot (Jan 19, 2006)

Dear Steven,

I am very supportive of your work and what you have done for the aquascaping folks. It would be a pity if your talents were somehow restricted during your campus life. 

However, I don't think spamming your director with emails from the forum folks would aid in your cause. It may very well backfire instead.

I would strongly support John's suggestion in gathering support from people who are affiliated with your school. With your set of skills, it's not that tough. 
Ultimately, the decision passed by your director will not affect the forumers here very much, BUT it will affect your school and you. Spend the time where it will maximize your efforts.

With that, hope to see more of your works in the near future!


Sincerely,
Ben


----------



## ianiwane (May 6, 2005)

FelixAvery said:


> If noone stood up to rules, we would still have slavery and degradation of women!!
> you want that?
> just think of steven as a sufregette


That analogy is illogical at best. There is a pretty big difference between a fish tank and those two things.


----------



## toffee (Jul 5, 2005)

Jason Baliban said:


> I think its rediculous to ask people from a forum to write and institution on THEIR rules. Lets all grow up a little bit here. Rules are in place to be there, not to be broken. It does suck that you cant have your tank where you want it, but to ask for such a favor is in bad taste.


LOL, you got to be kidding right? Laws are made to be broken. Why? because laws or rules could be wrong or no longer right. We as a nation have the congress to rewrite laws. Laws or rules are also subject to interpretation, we as a nation have the courts to do just that.

Do you always drive 65mph on highway? or just not old enough to drive?


----------



## toffee (Jul 5, 2005)

Steven_Chong said:


> George, I deeply appreciate the letter my friend. It is wonderful.
> 
> AaronT-- I would love to start a club! The trouble is in the members I think though . . . I can't help but think that if there were people in the 5Cs doing aquascaping, we'd probably have found each other . . . (I mean, they have to come to APC to keep up with the latest greates planted aquarium news right!?) Maybe I should at least look into it and offer though.
> 
> ...


I have emailed to Jefferson, what is the point of emailing to fid? dude already said no, or absolutely not.


----------



## YzMxer99 (Jul 17, 2006)

The TPT thread is closed, and I just spend 30 min typing it up. So I'm posting it here lol. Sorry

Wow, I cannot believe how this thread has expanded and become so "deep".

Steven, I shouldn't see this as an attack. With so many people posting there advice to, it shows they care and respect what you do. I think we are all trying to help you grow as a person AND those in your age group who are on this forum.

I do want to expand on my first posting as some of it could be miss understood by the pre-college kids as obvious in dufus' post

-Yes college is for an education, but is education only limited to books and classes? I'll bet the college grads here will argue that your college education goes deeper. 


dufus said:


> .Now, for those of you saying to- forget the tank, have some college life-
> by this do you mean get drunk and stoned off your ass?


Yes I did drink ALOT in college, but you know what? I learned a lot from that. Think of social business meetings and there ties with drinks, happens all the time. I know my limit, know what to order, and can remain in control. No dancing with a lamp shade on my head. Nothing like that. Business is done, ties are made. Period.

This probly offends a lot of people but I'm not saying "go drink, its good for your life". Just don't pass judgment on those who do. The world does business around a coctail on occasion, that doesn't mean you have to drink, know how to act around them.

On a tangent, I just realized what this thread has become. Aquascaping is a small commmunity. Heck, I'll bet everyone here is also on APC. This little online forum is a bit of a family, we share the rises and falls of each other s tanks and lives.

Drawing an aqauscaping tie in, Steven just represents the "noob". Steven, Dufus, Yoko, etc I think each generation is trying to give you input on what college life is like and how to experience it. This is a very good discussion because no one has said "don't go to that college if they don't let you have a tank." Instead they are passionate about giving you guys advice. Read through the thread and draw your own conclusions.


----------



## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

> LOL, you got to be kidding right? Laws are made to be broken. Why? because laws or rules could be wrong or no longer right.


You are being very broad here... Society is made of rules, laws, morals, codes of conduct, whatever. They are not made to be broken. Society without laws and scrupples is just plain anarchy. Nobody really wants anarchy, unless you are a strung out punk rocker! Or a democrat! 



> Yes I did drink ALOT in college, but you know what? I learned a lot from that.


LOL HAHAHaaaaaaaaaa! \\/ Yeah... I learned a lot from my drinking days too...

I am begining to agree with John and Jason more.. these emails may actually hurt not help... but what I dont understand is if the guy already told you that you would be able to move the tank, why would you then need anyones email to help make that happen? And why would it help?


----------



## toffee (Jul 5, 2005)

Robert Hudson said:


> You are being very broad here... Society is made of rules, laws, morals, codes of conduct, whatever. They are not made to be broken. Society without laws and scrupples is just plain anarchy. Nobody really wants anarchy, unless you are a strung out punk rocker! Or a democrat!


Society needs law, however, all laws are made to be broken. First day of law school bs. but true. If they ain't, we will still be a crown colony. LOL, how can lawyers make a living if law ain't supposed to be broken?


----------



## Erirku (Oct 5, 2004)

Hey Steven, I wrote them both a letter.


----------



## yoko (Apr 11, 2007)

Like *YzMxer99*, I am here because TPT is locked, jk  

Steven, I really hope you read thru the Thread and realize we are just trying to help.

Even what may have sounded "harsh",hey it is 10x harsher in the real world.
You will need to learn how to take criticism as an artist and as a person.

I really hope the best for you and that you have a nice Summer and reflect on things...

Please find access to a Color Photo Printer and make some prints of your aquascapes and build a portfolio and touch base with student body, I know I sound like a broken record now, but an ink cartridge is good for about 20 prints and you can do this within a couple hours.
There is no doubt in my mind that you can present an exceptional portfolio.

Cheers,
yoko


----------



## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

Robert Hudson said:


> Nobody really wants anarchy, unless you are a strung out punk rocker! Or a democrat!


I am both, Damn proud of it, I know alot just like me and not one of us wants Anarchy:boxing:


----------



## hooha (Apr 21, 2005)

To throw some levity into this situation....

I wrote a letter to those two people:

Dear director guys,
Please allow Steven a place on campus to set up his 60cm tank. All the bickering on the planted tank forums is giving me a headache



I think enough good advice has been given, I don't need to rehash it. I particularly think John N.'s suggestions will give you the best bet. Someone in one of the forums mentioned how this topic was posted in a polarizing manner, hence the replies. I agree, the way it was presented could be construed as off-putting by some, and even confusing. In particular, the actual issue is very vague. From what I can gather, you were asking for support in finding a new spot on campus for your tank (not necessarily trying to get it back in your dorm room). I personally don't see a problem with that, although I'll agree with everyone else, getting support from fellow students/faculty would be more productive.



Steven_Chong said:


> I really don't want to argue . . . right now, I'm already feeling too burnt out, tired, and empty to really say anything in my defense . . . so everyone just feel free to draw whatever conclusions you want, do what you want-- help me, don't help me, or anything.


I actually find that disturbing Steven. Although I don't often agree with you, I respect your quality of standing by your beliefs. I'll bring up a cliche to make a point, take it for what it's worth: there's a fine line between self-confidence and arrogance. Self-confidence will get you far, arrogance will get you in trouble.....


----------



## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Steven, 

Those 'accusations that the tank smells bad' worry me. Unless they were made up by the resident assistant to bolster his case, there is somebody in the dorm who resents you having your aquarium. I think your best bet is to see if you can get some help from a friendly professor or two in the Biology department. Maybe one of the professors would let you set the tank up in his/her office. Better yet, maybe you could could get permission to set up the tank in a more public area in one of the buildings. If I were biology department chair there, I would enthusiastically support an aquascaped aquarium maintained by a student! 
John Glaeser, organizer of the Madison Aquarium Gardeners (Wisconsin), maintains a number of planted aquariums in various buildings on the University of Wisconsin Campus. One of them is in the lobby of the biology building, Birge Hall. These aquariums spark a lot of interest in planted tanks, and they are actively supported by several botany professors.

I remember, when I had a 5 gallon tank in my dorm room, a member of the 'beer garbage and *****' set attempted to blow it up with a firecracker!


----------



## Jason Baliban (Feb 21, 2005)

toffee said:


> LOL, you got to be kidding right? Laws are made to be broken. Why? because laws or rules could be wrong or no longer right. We as a nation have the congress to rewrite laws. Laws or rules are also subject to interpretation, we as a nation have the courts to do just that.
> 
> Do you always drive 65mph on highway? or just not old enough to drive?


Actually i just got my learners permit.:bored: I soon hope to be able to use words like aint in my sentences like do. I also like how you crafted this masterful sentence....

"How can lawyers make a living if law ain't supposed to be broken?"

Your parents have been telling you as my parents told me...."You will understand when you grow up."

Young people.....*shakes head*

jB


----------



## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

Jason Baliban said:


> I soon hope to be able to use words like aint in my sentences like do.
> jB


Now you shouldn't go and make fun of somebody's spelling and grammer and then go and make a mistake yourself

Alzheimers also comes with age.

And I am just making fun, not being serious here.


----------



## Jason Baliban (Feb 21, 2005)

goalcreas said:


> Now you shouldn't go and make fun of somebody's spelling and grammer and then go and make a mistake yourself
> 
> Alzheimers also comes with age.
> 
> And I am just making fun, not being serious here.


Yeah, its late

What a crazy uproar this has become.....pardon my grammer as i write this... This means you goalcrease!! 

This has been a serious case of squeeky wheel gets the most oil. I see people writing things like "great talent", "great artist", "maybe they dont like you", "self indulgent behavior/attitude"...etc.

I have been around for awhile....long enough to get alzhiemers apparently. First of, steven is not a great talent and his abilities give him no right to have the attitude he does. He is better then average, but hardly a full package. With a portfolio of two unrefined layouts, i have always thought he was crazy to approach others in the manner he does. There are people who make him look stupid with their skill sets and you dont see any of them complaining or nailing people to the wall with their comments.

Many people do not respect him for his attitude and the folks at PT took this opportunity to express that. I hope that steven finds this humbling. Its pretty crazy how fast this all got out of hand, but i cant help but think this is a deserving ending to a thread like this.

The gloves came off on this one.

jB


----------



## ianiwane (May 6, 2005)

Well said Jason.


----------



## toffee (Jul 5, 2005)

Jason Baliban said:


> Actually i just got my learners permit.:bored: I soon hope to be able to use words like aint in my sentences like do. I also like how you crafted this masterful sentence....
> 
> "How can lawyers make a living if law ain't supposed to be broken?"
> 
> ...


Howdy "just got my learners permit", you are basically saying rules need to be obeyed regardless of circumstances. Welcome to the real world.


----------



## toffee (Jul 5, 2005)

ianiwane said:


> That analogy is illogical at best.


How so?


----------



## gacp (Sep 11, 2006)

"You will understand when you grow up."

No, you won't.

You _will_ get used to it, get tired of trying to figure it out, make any sense of it, fighting the absurdity of it, over and over, to no avail.

Then, you'll convince yourself you "got" it, out of desperation.

Not a far cry from the "4, 5, 6 fingers, whatever you tell me" of Winston in 1984. Torture _works,_ and torture comes in many flavors, and many of its flavors are tasteless.

Then, you will go on and convince yourself that you now finally "get it" because you matured, and call yourself someone who has "grown up".

Or, perhaps, you will fight and fight and fight, always fight the system, and lose lose lose, over and over again always lose the same battle. You will bang your head against the stone wall, until you become dull and blind. You will narcisistically bath in your own blood, and even convince others to follow you into pointless pain.

You will call yourself a "rebel". Some chicks find this romantic, even.

Or you might just give up, pretent you no longer care, and become resentful and frustrated. And in the end, you will really no longer care, because there is nothing left in you that can care.

You will call this "being a realist".

Most unlikely, you might find the equilibrium needed to walk the triple tightrope between selling out, giving up, and masochist jerking off. And the humility to pull yourself up again everytime you fall from that tightrope.

If you do, you will can yourself a man.

And most everyone will hate your guts, and call you very differently.

And, no matter what, it will be OK.


----------



## sherry (Sep 30, 2005)

I think you learn by challenging the rules. Steven isn't ignoring them, he is on a campaign to change them. A little world view that shows what he is doing is respected by folks who may already be college graduates among others, can't hurt. I wrote in for Steven. 

I hope my kids grow up to growl a little when they feel they are being treated unjustly.


----------



## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

ianiwane said:


> That analogy is illogical at best. There is a pretty big difference between a fish tank and those two things.


yeh i know its illogical, but i cudent think of anything else to say


----------



## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

The most ridiculous part now is what this thread has become. Steven had a problem and while he may or may not have gone about it right, he still tried something. It seems many of you took this as an excuse to bash him because you don't like his attitude instead of following the "mature" route and not saying anything if you disagreed. In the process , you also applied some of those pesky labels that have always irked me. What has always amazed me is to hear people preaching the "grow up" attitude when their attitude is not much better. It has been a while since I was a kid but I still remember being one. It was not all that it was cracked up to be and frankly, I had to work very hard to seem above all the stupid labels and stereotypes applied to youth.

Yep, its a rant but this thread has turned into something so far beyond that it doe snot matter. Truth is, its been a while since I wished I were still a moderator but I miss the thread locking power at the moment.


----------



## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Well said, Dennis. 

I am locking this thread. There are some people who should be ashamed of their comments.


----------

