# Tankless water heaters...



## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Anybody with good knowledge about these? We're thinking of changing our water heater. We have hard well water (kh9-10) and I'm tired of scooping out tons of deposited scale in the bottom of the tank(s) over time. Have heard good and bad about the tankless systems. 

If anyone can answer the following, please do:
1. Have heard they don't provide hot enough water for things like automatic dishwashers? True or false.
2. With my hard water, will I just be clogging up the 'out' line by deposition of scale deposits after the water is heated? In tank, it precipitates out and deposits on the bottom, so at least not too much gets into lines.
3. Have heard they're not as reliable over time as tanks - true/false?
4. Are they worth the price differential?
5. Any other comments, feel free to add.

TIA.


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## Spyke1969 (Dec 3, 2004)

They are using them like crazy in Austin TX. As far as running out of water, there are different sizes, Electric & gas. They are running them for whole house applications. One house that I worked on had 2 large gas ones, They had a dishwasher and the usual hot water appliances, The homeowners said that they loved them. Since they are new I don't know about the deposits or the long term, but like I said they are putting them in like crazy in Austin. The main Advantade that i see is that you are not keeping a large mass of water heated constantly, only what you need when you need it.


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## vic46 (Oct 20, 2006)

Maybe a water softener would solve the problem.
Vic


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

> Maybe a water softener would solve the problem.


It would, but I don't want to go that route.


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## flandjm (Dec 28, 2006)

One day a month or so ago, it was a topic on Wisconsin Public Radio. The guest that was on the show said that they were especially great for 1-2 person households. That they can keep up with average daily life fine, but you will run into issues when running multiple appliances at a time. He said when you have kids and are running laundry, the dish washer, and taking a shower all at once you would run out of hot water. Which usually amounts to lacking hot water exactly when you need it. 

I don't have any experience personally. It does seem like a better alternative to the traditional hot water heaters.


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

Hi Bert,

My condo has a hot water on demand system, which I believe is the same as a tankless hot water heater. Its kind of a misnomer, as there IS a tank, but only of a few gallons.

Recently, on an Ask This Old House episode, they installed a larger one with a faster capacity for a busy household, allowing them more flexibility to have laundry and showers going at the same time.

First, my Caveats - I do live alone, but bought the place from someone I knew, and there were two living here at the time she was here. She said it IS possible to run out of hot water, but it was very rare. I have occasionally had the diswasher running at the same time as I took a shower, but that scenario is infrequent. I had no difficulties when I did though.



Bert H said:


> If anyone can answer the following, please do:
> 1. Have heard they don't provide hot enough water for things like automatic dishwashers? True or false.


I've never had an issue with this. Mine has a tiny (two or three gallons?) reservoir, and on a few occasions, I've taken a shower while running the diswasher (didn't mean to, these are DOH moments) without running "out" of hot water. I HAVE run out of hot water once when I had a sinus infection, and took an incredibly long (45+ minutes), much hotter than usual shower to get some breathing relief.



Bert H said:


> 2. With my hard water, will I just be clogging up the 'out' line by deposition of scale deposits after the water is heated? In tank, it precipitates out and deposits on the bottom, so at least not too much gets into lines.


I'm not able to give any input on this, as our water is a bit hard, but not extraordinarily hard.



Bert H said:


> 3. Have heard they're not as reliable over time as tanks - true/false?


Gosh, mine came with the Condo, and the previous owner has had it for years. I've had more trouble with the furnace (oil heat) than any issue with the hot water on demand system. Mine is all tied in together - the furnace heats both the water that travels through the hot water baseboard radiant path, as well as is used for the shower, dishwasher, washing machine, etc. depending on the "demand". The Reservoir is tiny, but no issues with the hot water side of things, just some electrical glitches w/ the furnace itself.

I remember as a kid, we had both softened water and traditional water tanks, and like clockwork, every 4.5 years, the water tank would "go" because of the softening system - it just ate through water tanks (the salts) until my father finally decided to get rid of the water softening system entirely.



Bert H said:


> 4. Are they worth the price differential?


Again, I'm unable to answer this as mine was already in place. I've been pleased with this, and I think the fuel savings is worth it. I had an apartment which had a too-big hot water tank, and I was responsible for both heat and hot water. It was a 2 br + alcove apt, an entire floor of a New England "triple decker". My heating bills were larger with that apt and the oversized hot water tank than here in a 2 floor, 2 BR townhouse condo w/attic & bsmt. Granted, there were a lot of other variables, but I often wondered how much that big 'ol hot water tank was costing to keep hot. I got insulation, etc. and the pipe insulation, but I'm spending less for heat/hot water in the condo than I did in that apt.

Personally, If I had to, I'd replace my current hot water on demand system with another (rather than a hot water tank) again. I wouldn't "blink" unless there was a price difference greater than 20% higher. Then I'd do the research, etc.



Bert H said:


> 5. Any other comments, feel free to add.


Well, like I mentioned, I recall LOTs of hot water heater tanks breaking when I was a kid. What a mess! Granted, it was directly correlated with the water softening system. My hot water tank in R.I. wasn't a problem for the 2 years I lived there, but a neighbor's was.

My overall impression is that nowadays, with better technology, possibly installing a larger reservoir, etc., running out of hot water with a tankless system shouldn't be an issue.

Hope this helps!
-Jane


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

*Tankless Water Heaters and Regular Water Heaters*

Bert H., I can't tell which is the best one for you, but I can tell you what I went through.

Ours went the first week of December. Yes, that's right. Just about the time Santa Claus goes shopping for Christmas. I was not thrilled.

Well, this is one time that the internet did NOT help. Home Depot's website SUCKS the big one!!!!!! No help online. The only thing they show on their website is the Tankless water heaters. Which is fine, if that is what is truly is best for you. The hard part. Figuring out if that is the right one for you!

And Consumer Reports reviewed EVERYTHING this year a person might buy EXCEPT FOR - that's right. A hot water heater. Oh joy. 
But they did at least have a page reviewing what the differences are between a 6 year warranty hot water heater and a 12 year warranty hot water heater.

I was almost going to go with a tankless hot water heater. Until it got too complicated. How many people in the house? 6. How many bathroom? 2 
So we are looking at a 75 gallon hot water heater maybe. Last question. 
What is the temperature of the water coming INTO your house? NOW HOW THE FREAK AM I SUPPOSED TO KNOW THAT???!!!!! I mean it's upstate NY for creaps sake. COLD, IT'S COLD, OKAY?! Oh, and the tankless water heater was WAY more expensive. How much money would I save per year and how many years would it take to get the $$ back?

Thank god for old men. I went back to Home Depot to look at the regular hot water heaters (the ones they WON'T show on their website. Go figure). Well, this old guy goes,"Wow! That's a lot." Me,"Yeah, what's the other option?" He says,"Sears." Me,"Where's that? The one across the road closed shop."

Bottom line. Sears. Walked in. Helpful. Informative. Not pushy. Did not try to break my budget.Worked with me. Now I know why everyone's (maybe) Dad got their stuff at Sears. Got a 50 Gallon tank.

Burt H. I wish you luck. Unless you know a buddy that is good with this stuff, it's not fun. I can tell you I do enjoy the hot showers and baths much more though! :smile:

Wish you the best and good luck. Let us know what works out for you.

Me, I would love to hear from a plumber (or like minded) out there and what they recommend. For me - what a pain that was!


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## Cassie (May 27, 2006)

we got one, but for some reason, it would "turn off" and we'd get an error and have to push a reset button. It was something with the gas line, which had to be redone to fix the problem. it works great though, for 4 people (only one bathroom), and that includes my brother who takes 45 minute showers (he takes after my sister) without running out of hot water even with the dishwasher running as well


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Do your Dad or Mom say if it saves $$$ to use? I am glad that it works so well.


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## RoseHawke (Jan 4, 2005)

www.finehomebuilding.com . The Breaktime forum. Those are mostly pros that hang out there and if anybody would know, they would. Of course, do a search first .


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## Cassie (May 27, 2006)

My mom said that the gas bill went down significantly, from between 60-80 a month (during the summer with no heater running) to about $20/month. She also said that the water bill went up slightly, since you have the freedom to take longer showers! (although, we did get an extra tank, albeit a small one!  )


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

Wow, the homebuilding site is great!
Nice resource.

Gosh, Jim, I'm so sorry to hear you've had such a hassle with it. MY Dad likes Sears, too! I've gotten several room humidifiers from them, come to think of it. There was no heavy sales pitch, and the prices were decent. 

I'm glad that worked out!
-Jane


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