# Low GH/KH



## ridgerider (Jun 15, 2005)

Two weeks ago I moved my 29 high tank, which has been set up for years, from work to home. Tap water at home is very different from the hard water at work: GH seems to be 0, KH=3, pH=8.4. I have been using PPS, and pressurized CO2 (pH=6.4 in the tank). I typically add NO3, K, Mg, Fe and Traces. It seems I now also need to add Calcium. I have the formula for Discus Mix, but can't seem to find a suggested dosage anywhere. 

My question is: what compound(s) do I minimally need to add, and at what initial rate?

Thanks!

Tacy


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Tacy,

I have soft water here too. I add NaHCO3 (Baking Soda) at 1/4 teaspoon per 10 gallons which will bring up my dKH 1.0 degree. I add Seachem Equlibruim at the rate of 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons to raise my dGH 2.0 degrees. If I don't, my plants start showing Ca and Mg deficiency problems.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Your KH seems way out of line with your ambient pH. I'm guessing either your test kit is off, you've got NH4 popping up, or there's another stranger buffer at play.

Ca is generally happy at 20ppm. I like CaCl2 for liquid stock solution dosing, if you dry dose it then premix with tap water and wait for it to settle down... keep it away from skin. 73mg/l at WC time will yield 20ppm of Ca.

Alternatively there's CaSO4. Great for dry dosing, crap solubility for liquid stock. On the plus side, no risk of chemical burns. There's a couple various hydrates hanging around, so find out what you're buying and I can suggest doing from there.

I wouldn't bother raising KH for the sake of raising KH. It's stability in osmotic pressure, not stability in pH that matters. Most plants we keep would be happier without the extra sodium, and the bicarb isn't so great for the fish. Soft water fauna seems happy enough with what the ferts and food provide in the column.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

This could help your low GH:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/sale-trade/70080-fs-electro-right-6-16oz-bottles.html


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## timbruun (Feb 23, 2010)

@ Seattle Aquarist

Equilibrium bottle says 1 tsp to raise dgh by 3 for every 20 gallons. Did you find that it wasn't enough at that rate? I was testing equilibrium in a 5 gallon jug to get my gh right and it wasn't working the way it was supposed to I found. I even tried twice that dosage and still no dGH.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi timbruun,

My bottle seems to say 1 tablespoon of Equilibrium will raise 20 gallons 3 dGH. I believe there are 3 teaspoons in a tablespoon. In that case 1 teaspoon will raise 20 gallon 1 dGH or 10 gallons 2.0 dGH. Is my math off?


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## timbruun (Feb 23, 2010)

Wow. I completely read the bottle wrong. I've been reading teaspoon for the longest time. Might explain my issue. Your math sounds completely right. I will test this when I pick up my next jug of distilled and see how it works. I have been using MgSO4 with CaSO4 to raise GH instead but find CaSO4 just isn't that nice to work with.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi timbruun,

I used to use MgSO4 (Epsom Salt) and CaCl (Calcium Chloride / Dri - Z-Air) but it was more work and too easy to mess up the dosing and CA:MG ratio. I like CaCl over CaCO4 because is dissolved clear (but caused heat and had to be mixed outside the tank). Equilibrium is much easier and the water is only cloudy for an hour or two.


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## timbruun (Feb 23, 2010)

I've been looking for calcium chloride in liquid form lately but haven't found any yet. I'd like to use MgSO4 and CaCl2 instead of Equilibrium because of the cost. My well water has no GH and very high KH which sucks. For my shrimp I use distilled that I make work but will start using the real dosages of Equilibrium and try that. The issue with cost comes down to my 55 and 90 gallon tanks. If i want my GH to be around 6 dGH I have to add 15 tsp in the 55 gallon and 25 tsp in the 90 gallon. Now at $20 per 600g bottle of equilibrium that'll add up in a hurry with weekly water changes. 

So since you've tried this, at what ratio of MgSO4 and CaCl2 should I be using and how much to raise how many gallons by how many dGH.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for the help so far.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi timbruun,

Some folks say 4:1 Ca:Mg and some say 3:1. I dosed per the Fertilator.


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## timbruun (Feb 23, 2010)

I was dosing per the Fertilator also with the CaSO4 since I was confused with the 4:1 or 3:1 ratio. I'm not sure if it's 3:1 by weight or volume. And then the whole fertilator is not designed to give answers for adjusting GH, it just tells what's needed for plants.

I might go and pick up some Dri-z-air crystals now that you told me about them and play around with that and epson salt and 3:1 or 4:1 ratio by volume and see what GH I get by adding to 5 gallons water. Start small I guess. 1 tsp Dri-z-air crystals and 1/4 tsp epsom salts. We'll see I guess.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi timbruun,

Visit the Fertilator, I think you will find 2 parts CaCl*6H2O to 1 part MgSO4*7H20 will give you approximately the 4:1 ratio. Keep us posted!


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## timbruun (Feb 23, 2010)

Is dry-z-air crystals in CaCl.6H20 form then? 

And to add to that, is Epsom salt MgSO4.7H2O? or just MgSO4?

And on that note, once I find what works to give me lets say 1 dgh per 10 gallons, could I just mix a solution and add however many mls I need to get the dgh right?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi timbruun,

Actually, I believe that Dri-Z-Air is CaCl2*2H2O. Here is a link that might help you some.


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## timbruun (Feb 23, 2010)

That's partly where I'm lost. How do you know it's the 2H2O? 

And so when they're taking 4:1 it's based on ppm?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi timbruun,

I checked out the MSDS for Dri-Z-Air and found it's composed of:

3. Composition Information 
Component CAS # Amount 
Calcium chloride 10043-52-4 > 90.0 - < 92.0 % 
Water 7732-18-5 > 4.0 - < 6.0 % 
Potassium chloride 7447-40-7 > 2.0 - < 3.0 % 
Sodium chloride 7647-14-5 > 1.0 - < 2.0 %

Then I went to Wikipedia and checked out Calcium Chloride. CaCl2 is known as a drying agent or desiccant. (Which is what Dri-Z-Air does) It is converted to a brine as it adsorbs the water or water vapor from the substance to be dried:

CaCl2 + 2 H2O → CaCl2·2H2O

Therefore I have to believe that Dri-Z-Air is calcium chloride in CaCl2 form. Per the Fertilator, to achieve a Ca:Mg ppm ratio of approximately 4:1 then equal parts of Dri-Z-Air (CaCl2) to Epsom Salt (MgSO4·7H2O) would be appropriate. timbruun, thank you for asking the questions; I learned a lot by doing the extra research.


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## timbruun (Feb 23, 2010)

haha. No thank you. I'm learning as we go here also. I will probably be picking some of this dry-z-air either today or tomorrow and start experimenting with the equal volumes and finding what it does to my gh. I'll probably keep using some equilibrium though since it does add beneficial minerals that might not be present enough in my tap water. I just don't want to be using that much of it.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Dry-Z-Air looks like a good bet. Sodium levels look low enough to not be toxic.

To be honest, don't bother with equilibrium. Here's the product:
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Equilibrium.html

You're already adding everything it contains except the calcium. It's also way over-priced.


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## timbruun (Feb 23, 2010)

How do you mean I'm adding everything already? If I'm going to be using epson slt (MgSO4) with the dry-z-air (CaCl2) what else is needed? Equilibrium has iron and soluble potassium and manganese. I guess the potassium is there as potassium chloride but at a lower percentage.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

If you're dosing EI with KNO3 and KH2PO4 you'll get all the K you need along with the N and P. You should be getting a full load of iron, Mn and everything else from your micros; CSM+B, flourish comprehensive, tpn, etc.


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## timbruun (Feb 23, 2010)

That's the thing, I'm not dosing EI currently. The only tank that I'm using dry ferts on is a low light 55 gallonn that isn't really heavily planted. I use excel as a CO2 source since I'm not good at keeping the DIY steady when I'm really busy with work. I do dose dry ferts in that tank somewhat according to ei though. Just once a week or so and very little. 

My other tanks I just want the GH up since I find the fish are much happier that way.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Ya, sorry I realize you're not using EI. I remembered just as I headed out the door after making the post.

Anyhow, my point is that all the compounds you have at hand are able to supply everything that Equilibrium does. There's really no point in buying more or using it beyond burning out your existing quantities.


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## timbruun (Feb 23, 2010)

That's kind of what I figured. If i was just going my 2 small 5 and 5.5 gallon tanks then equilibrium isnt' that expensive. Once I start doing the big tanks then it sure can add up. I do have all the dry ferts needed to do EI since I was doign it earlier but completely changed that tank over to an Oscar and silver dollar tank instead. I'm getting busy with work and can't put in the time needed for all the dry ferts and CO2.

Well that sounds great though. I will make up my own mixture with epsom salt, dry-z-air crystals and K2SO4.

Actually is there a reason to be using K2SO4 as opposed to KH2PO4? Is the SO4 better to have in the mix?


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

KH2PO4 supplies phosphate. Your plants need it, and when you dose a good 5-10ppm of PO4 you'll find GSA doesn't tend to hang around. A lot of people (myself included) like the KH2PO4/KNO3 combo because the two together provide a nice K+ ratio. I toss in some K2SO4 to neglect-proof my dosing as K+ tends to get yanked out of the column through other processes faster.

SO4 should already be in ample supply through MgSO4, along with the fact that just about every micro/trace source out there uses SO4 to bind all the small stuff up with.


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## timbruun (Feb 23, 2010)

So I could use either with the MgSO4, CaCl2 mix.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Ya, either would be just fine so long as you're satisfying PO4/NO3 needs in other ways. Personally I'd just reduce the light and use a slowed down/reduced dose EI given what you're running. Everything would be so much simpler.

I'm not sure how I forgot this, but dose the CaCl2 in that ratio as stated, but keep it separate. Premix it separately, dose it a good 5 minutes apart at VERY least. The down-side of CaCl2 is that when you get it in with SO4 (pretty necessary for Mg dosing) you'll just end up with things reconfiguring so that you've got CaSO4 precipitating out anyhow. This is another reason I usually advice CaCl2 for stock solution, CaSO4 for dry dose.


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## timbruun (Feb 23, 2010)

That's right. I've read that before too. I picked up some CaSO4 with CaCO3 in it, the plaster of paris, and didn't like that at all. Every time I dosed it turned the tank white until the next day and coated everything. Plus it gets in the filter and the filters start shooting it out after a while. I tried CaMg(CO3)2 that I picked up figuring I'd try but that doesn't disolve at all, which I figured. I kept it more in case I wanted to just buffer by having it in my filters...


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

aquariumfertilizer.com has clean CaSO4 last I ordered. No issues, just be sure to premix.


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## ridgerider (Jun 15, 2005)

Thanks for the answers...

I should have mentioned: our water district provides us with an annual water quality report. It has consistently shown Ca (as CaCO3) to be in the 16 mg/L range, so that is also why I am fairly certain I need to add Ca. After the tank has been home almost a month, the plants are growing really small leaves, and the Amazon Sword's leaves are a bit "crinkled", despite the fact that I added root tabs to it in addition to the liquid ferts. I consistently add NO3, P, K, Mg, traces and Fe. I stopped testing the tank while it was at work, because the tank was balance for years. Now things are different. I plan to order CaCl...

Any other thoughts???


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Definitely do the Ca/Mg dosing then. You've got soft water, kicking in some GH will help.

Keep in mind that Ca deficiency is almost always actually CO2 deficiency once someone is dosing Ca properly for a month or two. The light:CO2 ratio and proper distribution of both is by far the hardest thing to get a handle on when starting out. It's the hardest to dose, it's the hardest to measure and it impacts both cell structure and chlorophyll so it looks like more than one deficiency. I mention this because it's a very common problem, and people often get frustrated with it. If Ca deficiency is still happening once you're dosing plenty of Ca, then look to CO2:light ratios.


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