# Use of Daphnia as filterers?



## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Hi. I am as sure as I can be (no autopsy) that my 10 gallon El Natural tank has mycobacteria :scared: . I have watched my GloFish Danios waste away and die one by one. I had six, I have 2 left. They all showed spinal deformities at the end. All the other fauna are happy in this tank: one fast-growing P. p. bridgesii (golden mystery) snail and four American Glass (ghost) Shrimp-two of these hatched in the tank and survived the danios. The inverts are all growing like mad. *I am wondering if Daphnia (pullex or magna) would help to keep the bacteria down enough to allow the sick fish to survive.* I read that Diana Walstad used UV filters succesfully this way. My understanding is that daphnia filter feed on bacteria an algae in the water. The trouble I see would be to get them going in sufficient numbers that the two danios couldn't eat them all. I can't buy a UV filter, but I could get a daphnia starter culture. Does anyone out there use daphnia for keeping the water? Maybe for invert tanks?  
PS If I can't save the last two danios I will have shrimp (and hugantic growing snail) -only tank. I'm not buying anymore fish, only to watch them die.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

If the fish are already infected, clearing the water of the mycobacteria is not going to help them. If the last two fish die, perhaps if you waited a month or two, you could introduce more fish without them getting the disease. 

Daphnia clear the water, all right, but even a single guppy can clear out pretty large numbers of them in just a day or two. I don't think there is any way that you could get a Daphnia culture started in a tank that two Danios couldn't finish off unless you had a huge tank, literally thousands of gallons.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

save up for a $50-$60 submersable UV sterilizer. It's handy.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

mistergreen said:


> save up for a $50-$60 submersable UV sterilizer. It's handy.


Agreed. The benefits of a UV sterilizer are numerous which makes it well worth the money. And as you are aware, UV sterilizers are endorsed by Diana Walstead for use in Natural Planted Tanks.


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## treefish (Oct 10, 2007)

I had the same problem with two separate sets of glofish danios. I bought them at different times through two different vendors. The fish all developed curved spines. I eventually decided to cull them. I didn't want any of my other stock infected with whatever plagued these fish.

Later I heard that a large stock of sickly glofish entered the market. I don't know if that's true, but I'm inclined to believe it given my experiences with them. It's probably a genetic deformity, but I didn't want to risk it. At worst it could be TB.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Thanks everyone. I have a family and can't always indulge on my hobby. If my last two die, I won't get any more unless I get a UV sterilizer. I just hate that these last two will probably also die- nothing I've tried helped them. I'm doing frequent partial water changes, even though it's a NPT, hoping to keep the mycobacterium down. Not sure if it's helping. I don't know how fast the bacteria reproduces. So it will go away without a host? I thought my tank was ruined once I had it...


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

OK. I found the Francis-Floyd and Yanong paper out of University of FL called Mycobacteriosis in Fish. I remember reading about using 70% isopropyl alcohol to sterilize a tank, and I'm not tearing this tank apart (again). I do wash my hands carefully every time I touch it, I'll use alcohol too now, on my hands. It said that water can sustain the bacteria without fish or fish tissue. I read something about that here, too. I just took from it that my tank was probably ruined, and I guess it is... I am so bummed about this.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Update if anyone wants to know...

I put in D. Magna, D. Pullex and Moina about 5 days ago. they are in my 10 gal shrimp and snails NPT. (Decapods, Copapods and Mollusks- OH MY!) My water wasn't very green to begin with, but it may be a little clearer. Since the bacterial surface scum (white dusty stuff) I got when I did a water change, came back, I'd guess they aren't really affecting mycobacterium either. On the plus side, for as long as I can keep them going, I have a great Beta food source. So I discovered that they aren't much for noticeable water improvement (yet anyway).


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Hi,

If I read your posts correctly, you bought some "glow fish" danios and they died. Well, that is sad. Zebra fish, the source of "glow fish" danios, are among the hardiest of aquarium fish. It is also sad that they are used to create mass media-type pets. Maybe soon we will have "glow in the dark" Persian cats?  

To your question, daphnia will clear green water, but don't rely on them and other copepods to remove pathogenic bacteria from the water column. To do that one needs at least water changes and, rarely, medications.

The best defenses is to avoid buying diseased fish and to quarantine new fish in a separate aquarium for several weeks.

Good luck!

Bill


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

mommyeireanne said:


> *I am wondering if Daphnia (pullex or magna) would help to keep the bacteria down enough to allow the sick fish to survive.* I read that Diana Walstad used UV filters succesfully this way. My understanding is that daphnia filter feed on bacteria an algae in the water.
> 
> I'm not buying anymore fish, only to watch them die.


Dear Mr/Ms. Mommy...,

So sorry to hear about your sick fish. If ever there was something that discourages beginners it is sick/dead fish. And so many fish are already infected when you buy them. See my Diseased Fish Thread.

Please do not use Daphnia to fight mycobacteriosis. Scientific studies have shown that daphnia (and other invertebrates) can be a disease reservoir. That is, Daphnia infected with mycobacteria transmit the disease to fish. When fish eat the infected daphnia, they can get the disease.

My prescription: Remove and destroy sickly fish as soon as possible. I know it's sad, but you want to protect the healthy fish. If you can afford a UV sterilizer, buy it. I absolutely love my new Submariner filter.

Until you get a UV sterilizer, water changes will help. Mycobacteria grow slowly. Every time you change the water, you are removing mycobacteria and reducing the exposure of uninfected fish to potential pathogens.

In your situation, I wouldn't worry about sterilizing the tank. Mycobacteria grow slowly and other bacteria (the normal bacteria flora, which grow quickly) will eventually reduce their numbers to insignificance. The key is getting rid of the infection focus-- infected fish, infected daphnia.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Dear Ms Walstad, 
Thank you for the information. I got the daphnia from a reputable source and split the culture upon arrival. I had not fed the daphnia in the exposed tank to my healthy Beta yet, who each live in their own NPTs. And now I won't. That would have been awful. I finally have your book on the way to help me. I think I'm going to ask 'Santa' for a UV filter. Thank you.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I am so glad I could help out here. Knowledge is power!

Mycobacteria that cause "Fish TB" have a unique cell wall made of waxy lipids called mycolic acids. Unlike other bacteria that are killed when eaten, mycobacteria survive the digestion process. For example, mycobacteria survive digestion by snails, macrophages (white blood cells), and daphnia. Mycobacteria have many, many survival tricks-- makes them hard to eradicate not just with Fish TB but with human tuberculosis (different causative species but with same survival mechanisms). 

Fortunately for hobbyists, mycobacteria are quite sensitive to UV sterilization. 

I hope Santa is kind to you.


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## [email protected] (Oct 15, 2007)

Does anyone know, with certainty, what causes the spinal curvature in the GloFish? It seems to happen frequently, from the posts here (and I thought I has the only one, a truly bad fishkeeper) - perhaps it's a result of the gene manipulation creating a weakened nervous system or some other deficiency? What about inbreeding?

I ask because I have a similar situation. I bought the GloFish a month ago, and one of the smallest fish developed a spinal curvature about two weeks ago. He spent two days on the tank bottom; I was certain he would die.

He has not; he's been up and eating, swimming and generally acting like the other GloFish, with the exception of his curved back, which doesnt seem to impede his movement at all. Sometimes he looks almost normal, but other times he looks like his back half is shifted to his right side by 3/16", but he's still moving well. I asked about it at my LFS, they indicated they had seen it before with the GloFish and assumed it was 'some type' of bacterial infection. If this is true why are the other fish unaffected - this fishes size or some personal weakness?

Unfortunately, the tank is only a month old and isolating 'conditions' is impossible. In addition to the one sick glofish, I have some cardinals with ich - currently treating with 87 degree F water, little white roundworms, dragonfly naiads, four of my six otos died in the first week, my cherry shrimp all died in the first week, random H2S bubbles from the soil, ramshorn & pond & mts snails breeding like wildfire, and the plants are crowding out the fish with rampant growth - so my hands have been in the water alot trimming. Lots going on.

So, if he's recovering (he really seems better), or at least not acting sick except for the sometimes curvature, should I follow Diana's suggestion and euthanize it? I think I'd feel guilty, but I don't want my other fish getting sick. The lack of a certain cause makes it difficult for me to choose; I would hate to kill him needlessly, but I would like the rest of my fish to be 'sick' even less.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Aaron, 
A big problem with mycobacterium is that you really can't be certain without autopsy and labs. I'm sorry I don't have a positive answer for you. I am getting a UV filter, now. I euthanised the visibly ill ones, and still lost my small batch of Glos. Pretty dismal.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> So, if he's recovering (he really seems better), or at least not acting sick except for the sometimes curvature, should I follow Diana's suggestion and euthanize it? I think I'd feel guilty, but I don't want my other fish getting sick. The lack of a certain cause makes it difficult for me to choose; I would hate to kill him needlessly, but I would like the rest of my fish to be 'sick' even less.


Without an autopsy, you don't know. One of my Neon Rainbowfish, born from infected parents that died during the 2004 mycobacteriosis outbreak in my tanks, developed a curved spine. I had this fish autopsied and thoroughly examined by NC Vet School. It did not have mycobacteriosis.

I now keep all suspect fish that survived the outbreak in my 50 gal with a UV sterilizer. There's no need to euthanize them if they're behaving normally and you block transmission to unifected fish with a UV sterilizer.

Whether to euthanize fish with a curved spine is never an easy call. Since you like this fish and he seems healthy, I'd vote no.


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## [email protected] (Oct 15, 2007)

Mommyeireanne & Diana, thanks for the replies. I think I'll ride it out and see what happens. The fish in question still seems healthy - other than the curvature of his hindquarters. None of my other fish have shown any sign of being sick.

Diana, having read your previous thread regarding UV sterilizers, as well as your comments here, it surprises me to read (what implies to me) that you only run one tank with a UV sterilizer. Is that a correct assumption on my part, and if so, do you believe that known healthy fish in a known healthy environment don't need or wouldn't benefit from a sterilizer?

A UV sterilizer does seem like the right choice for a sick fish or new fish environment, and based on the recommendations of you and others here at APC, I am shopping for one that fits me. If you read my post regarding my 29g, you know I have more livestock issues than just the curved glofish - and I do want a few more new critters, when time and store stock permits - so it seems like I would benefit from a sterilizer, but for how long?

Once all the new stock are in, and the fish have been healthy for awhile, maybe a new 6 month bulb cycle, would you turn the sterilizer off?


> I now keep all suspect fish that survived the outbreak in my 50 gal with a UV sterilizer.


 I guess not since that outbreak was in 2004, but why not? Wouldn't the disease causing pathogens or bacteria be eliminated after months of sterilization?

Maybe this belongs in the UV thread now, sorry if I hijacked.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Update for me too...
The Daphnia (D. magna, D. pullex and Moina) managed in the tank even after removing the American Glass (ghost) Shrimp that I saw eating them like they were corn chips. I think it's too "clean" for them. No massive die off, , but I never saw the population explosion I should have, either. After two days with the UV filter, they are all gone as far as I can tell. So far baby Cherry Red Shrimp (Neocardenesis?) are fine. I am a bit worried about them, but will keep watching. My plan is to wait 3-4 months, re-assess shrimp size/breeding and consider adding new fish. I don't know how long it'll take my babies to grow and breed. I want to have an established lot of adults before adding fish. I planned on running the UV continuously for a while after new fish are added, then for green water only. I'll keep the pump on for circulation. I have the happiest snails, though. 
PS Have you guys tried over-feeding a NPT to fertilize, with two p. bridgesii snails? Geesh! I really haven't been able to- Amazing eating machines! I just float some flakes, but they get it all in a day.
PPS Aaron: I'm glad your fish is stable. I hated euthanizing my perceptibly sick fish and told myself I wouldn't have any more they were just going to die. I'll have my fingers crossed for you.


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## [email protected] (Oct 15, 2007)

Thanks for the well wishes, he's doing okay so far.

Good luck with the cherrys; I hope to have some soon myself. Maybe if you become overpopulated I can buy some of yours, with your new UV filter we know they'll be safe.

How big are your apples? I hear they can get pretty large.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

The first was about 3/4 of an inch when I got it, and has grown to nearly 2 inches. They are growing nicely in my very hard water. My tap water is very hard, but I put a tiny bit of crushed shell in the soil not knowing what the plants would do, and planning for inverts. It sure is working for them. The CRS shed regularly and the snails grow beautiful shells like mad. I think I've had the big one two months. From what I read it should've been about 5 mos old at that size, and will live 1-2 yrs at my tank temp (78 deg F). I actually planned a cold water tank, figuring it would be room temp without a heater, but both my powerhead (no out) and the UV warm the water to 78. Got another one because I liked it so much. They are very interesting. They are both white with yellow shells and I can see all the orange spots on their faces. Love to watch them chow on the occasional sinking algae wafer. Neither has ever touched my plants. I have never had them venture out (yet). When I added the first, I dipped a Q-tip swab in vinegar and ran it around the top rim of the tank. I left the water level lower in case they need to come out, just on the glass. I don't know if it really worked as a chemo-deterrent or I've just been lucky. But I'm going to refresh the vinegar soon. 
Yeah I really like them- I was going on a bit there...


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Overfeeding a tank to get the fertilizer value from the food seems to have fed your snails, too, but the digested food that the snails have eaten is good fertilizer, too. It has already been broken down closer tot he small units the plants will be able to use.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

I now have no fish in this tank, so it's ok. But I've stopped trying to _overfeed_ with the snails. And they still make plenty of fertilizer. Snail manure. Ha.


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## sexybl7 (Aug 10, 2007)

Sorry to hear that your fish arent doing too well, unfotunately this is an inbred this with GloFish and come from our incessant inteference with nature. I find it a bit odd that someone who is trying desperately to run a natural tank would put something so 'un-natural' in there.

Our shop refuses to stock or sell these fish at all due to the problems with them, what most fish shops dont tell you is that when they bring them in on shipments, nearly 3/4 of them die before they are ever put in a display tank for sale.

Not only are they genetically weaker than a mass produced guppy, they are also dyed, i know they tell you they arent but they ARE. You will probably find the ones that end up with the curved spines are also the ones that have been injected. Look for tell tale spot on the centre of their spine.

These fish are also not only a man made monstrosity they are also then force grown with hormones which agains weakens their spines.

When people stop buying these types of cruely produced fish then maybe then the 'manufacturers' will stop producing them. 

I would stop looking for other things in your tank thats making them sick as its 99% chance its inbred defects.

Nic


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Sometimes I don't know how to respond. Usually I think the best response to someone trying to be inflammatory or just unkind is to simply ignore it. But I'm sorry for when others feel so badly at something that they feel they have to denounce it publicly. Generally I think it's good to express ones feelings. It's just as important to consider others, and so express oneself in the appropriate venue. I think it would have been better for someone with a strong, negative view to start their own thread about it, word it more carefully and not flame others.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Interesting thread. 

I am confused by the last post. 

Please clarify. 

What does it mean to 'flame' others?


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

a personal attack


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Wikipedia has a summary of the history of the glofish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glofish

The introduction of a pigment producing gene from a jellyfish or a coral animal should not influence the health of the fish unless the pigment, itself, is somehow toxic. I have not seen any evidence that it is. Most likely, the health issues discussed in this thread are due to the way these zebra danios have been reared rather than due to the genetic modification. It may also be that the specific strain of zebrafish selected for the genetic modification already had a tendency for spinal curvature. Strains of animals used in lab research can become quite inbred and genetically different from their wild ancestors.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

> I am as sure as I can be (no autopsy) that my 10 gallon El Natural tank has mycobacteria


mommyeireanne, is a 10 gallon quarantine tank a possibility for you if this should happen again? 
I am sorry to hear about your fish.

Would using Paragard in a quarantine tank be helpful against mycobacteria?
http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/ParaGuard.html

I have not used it myself yet. Again, I am sorry to hear about your fish.

I hope everything works out with your aquarium.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

I really should have a Quarantine Tank but I don't. I am new to this. I have two gallon Beta tanks and this 10 gallon now with snails and Cherry Red Shrimp. When I do a bigger tank (next spring if I'm lucky) maybe this one will become the QT. All of my fish came from the same dealer, the same tank actually, so they were all suspect. 
One of the worst things about MB is that it seems resistant to known treatments. DWalstad talks about thi sin the excellent "Diseased Fish" thread. Plus carrier fish can appear healthy for months. I was very unlucky. And very sad to have lost my fish. 

I probably made a stronger response than I should have, in regards to some who don't approve of genetically modified (GloFish) Danios. Maybe a better response would be to make another post and let people debate it. I don't know if that would be frowned upon (???) because it's not really the purpose of this site. I'm a wary of stirring the pot, as it seems to be a personal issue. Most of us stock our tanks with fish & inverts bred to specific traits, size color, finnage, etc. and I see that as similar. And many who will say they are upset about GMO's (Genetically Modified Organisms) don't realize that are using GMO's (products) every day- have been most or all of their lives. Gen. Modification hit agriculture about 40 yrs ago I think. I don't wish to make people mad. But I think everyone should be able to discuss things nicely.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

The gene insertion that produced the glofish is a very minor change compared to the genetic modifications seen in goldfish and, more recently, some of the other aquarium fish. The changes in the goldfish have been done in a different, more acceptable way. This old fashioned way, artificial selection, produced goggle eyes, bubble eyes, triple tails, long, dragging fins, round bodies, odd growths on the head, etc. that combine to make some of the goldfish breeds truly miserable animals, in my opinion.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

I'll never forget the first time saw "Celestial" bubble-eye goldfish. And I understand they need special care in handling, lest their eyes be damaged. Ouch.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

oops I was wrong about the first GMO crops- guess that was the 90's. I was remembering something else about transgenic study and insulin manufacture: in the 70's, maybe. But my point was that many people benefit from the science.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

This is what I love about APC. 
Some of that was over my head (almost), some of it was at eye level for me and some of that I knew. 

I have not used a QT yet, but know I should once I feel my tanks are expensive, fragile, and just the way I want them. I know someday I should use one. Matter of fact, I am luck enough to have the tank and supplies that I could set one up if I needed to. 

GMO's I could learn a lot more about. And I too, try harder now to not 'stir the pot'. People get upset much more than I used to think and much more easily. When in a mischevious mood, I would do it sometimes just to see if anyone had a sense of humor. Overall, I try to be more sensitive and careful with how I say things. 

Goldfish, I have heard about that stuff before. Interesting. 
Transgenic study - for the moment over my head. That sounds interesting. What is that again?

Insulin manufacture and the point of many people benefiting from science. 
I like that. :smile: Insulin is a good friend of mine. :smile: I laughed the first time a friend asked if I got a rush from a shot or bolus of insulin. What an idea. I even thought it would be interesting if it has a similar effect of a nicotine rush from a cigarette. But I don't feel a thing from insulin. It is kind of like eating an apple. It just is. I don't think about it. 

Mommyeireanne, I like your thread. 
And someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I think the rule is: If it is 'Your thread' (you created it), then you can basically say what you want (within culturally acceptable limits). If you don't like what someone said or how they said it - then you can say so. Or not. 

But then again, I am sometimes a slow learner myself about spoken or unspoken rules. 

I like your thread and am learning more each time I read it. Thank you. 

And I hope your aquarium is doing better.


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

This really is an interesting thread, even if part of it has taken a different twist...



mommyeireanne said:


> I really should have a Quarantine Tank but I don't. I am new to this. I have two gallon Beta tanks and this 10 gallon now with snails and Cherry Red Shrimp. When I do a bigger tank (next spring if I'm lucky) maybe this one will become the QT. All of my fish came from the same dealer, the same tank actually, so they were all suspect.
> One of the worst things about MB is that it seems resistant to known treatments. DWalstad talks about thi sin the excellent "Diseased Fish" thread. Plus carrier fish can appear healthy for months. I was very unlucky. And very sad to have lost my fish.
> 
> I probably made a stronger response than I should have, in regards to some who don't approve of genetically modified (GloFish) Danios. Maybe a better response would be to make another post and let people debate it. I don't know if that would be frowned upon (???) because it's not really the purpose of this site. I'm a wary of stirring the pot, as it seems to be a personal issue. Most of us stock our tanks with fish & inverts bred to specific traits, size color, finnage, etc. and I see that as similar. And many who will say they are upset about GMO's (Genetically Modified Organisms) don't realize that are using GMO's (products) every day- have been most or all of their lives. Gen. Modification hit agriculture about 40 yrs ago I think. I don't wish to make people mad. But I think everyone should be able to discuss things nicely.


I'm sorry to hear about your fish  but glad that you've brought up a topic that Diana and others have warned us about. I'm sure that I've had some fish die b/c of MB, unbeknownst to me. Overall though, I don't find it to be a problem if you buy fish from the right people or at least, observe fish for a couple of days before you actually buy them. In the absence of a QT your only choice is to dose the whole tank w/ antibiotics which we often don't want to do.

Too, I can't say, from my experience, that this forum has any purpose other than to explore topics in fish and plant keeping. This specific one is geared towards a specific approah, but that doesn't mean that other meaningful discussions can't take place, even within an "unintended thread" so to speak. As long as, like you pointed out, such discussion takes place "nicely"! That is, as Jimbo205 pointed out, the thing to love about APC.



HeyPK said:


> The gene insertion that produced the glofish is a very minor change compared to the genetic modifications seen in goldfish and, more recently, some of the other aquarium fish. The changes in the goldfish have been done in a different, more acceptable way. This old fashioned way, artificial selection, produced goggle eyes, bubble eyes, triple tails, long, dragging fins, round bodies, odd growths on the head, etc. that combine to make some of the goldfish breeds truly miserable animals, in my opinion.


I think that The main thing you point out is that the changes in the goldfish have been made in a "more acceptable way." As a matter of fact, I would take this a step further and add that they have been genetically modified in the ONLY acceptable way (barring overuse of inbreeding, which would be a whole 'nother conversationm(nothing is completely black and white!)) to "modify" fish. That's what betta breeders do to produce beautiful DT and HM and BF and crowntail variations and no one "complains" about that b/c it's done appropriately. The keeping of glo-fish and (any other fish) that have to be "physically" manipulated to achieve a certain "trait" is unethical (IMO) because it's not done the way nature made it possible for it TO be done. Furthermore, just b/c the "treatment" doesn't pose any negative long-term effects doesn't, in my mind, justify the procedure. That's just my opinion though....

-ricardo


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

As flagg points out, I am off topic with the genetic stuff. I respect your view. I appreciate that you make a decent argument, and nicely. Jimbo, great insulin story. Had to laugh. I was a medic until a few years ago and I love biology. Genetics just fascinates me. Sorry to say my most recent (transgenic manipulation) info came from a PBS special, and looking up GloFish on the web led to other interesting articles, so no real training there. I'm just a geek . I really liked reading up on Daphnia and clams, also. But neither seem to be a good fit for a regular aquarium. Don't think I'll need them now that I'm running a small UV filter. I plan on watching this set-up for a few months and probably adding fish in the spring. By then I'll: (hopefully) 1 have a decent CR shrimp colony, 2 know if my hornwort can thrive with the UV, 3 have had no recurrent green water, 4 have given my lotus bulbs enough time to sprout or be replaced, and most importantly 5 *not* have a thriving mycobaterium colony. So everything will have hopefull stabilized and I'll add a few fish. I am really enjoying my plants and inverts, but I want fish again. That's what all this was about in the first place.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Biology, genetics, transgenic manipulation; tell me more. I love to learn more about those things. If the words get too big, I'll just break down the syllables, practice my phonics and sound it out. My last online resort is www.m-w.com Webster's Dictionary and other resources. Not everything plant related can be found there, but a good bit. http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/mycobacterium

Daphnia and clams. That could be VERY interesting. Are clams freshwater? Maybe just not the ones that I am currently thinking of.

Fish. If you are anything like me and you get attached to your fish and plants, plan for a Quarantine Tank. Depending on the size of the fish, the QT may be able to be whatever size is more practical for you. And did someone say that mycobacteria COULD or could NOT be taken care of preventatively by Paraguard?

I am guessing Paraguard costs $5 (I may be incorrect about this) and a UV filter costs $50 (yes/no?).


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Flagg, what is DT/HM/BF?


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

Jimbo205 said:


> Flagg, what is DT/HM/BF?


DT = double tail (that is, the fish's tail fin is divided into two)
(http://bettatalk.com/images/Yellow_DT_gorgeous_copy.JPG)

HM = half moon (these are when the betta's tail fin form a perfect 1/2 circle)
(http://bettatalk.com/images/OrangeHM.jpg)

BF = butterfly (this is when you have a bicolored fin, two bands, for example a band of red near the body and one of white along the fin edges)
(http://bettatalk.com/images/Black_white_BF_2_Faith_web.TIF)

You can read about other color and fin variations at:
http://bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm; and, 
http://bettatalk.com/betta_finnage.htm respectively

-ricardo


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Jimbo, I have searched the PBS website and can't find the show (don't remember the title) but found this Boyer about Boyer, the scientist who engineered human insulin. Before his work it was extracted from beef pancreases, and very hard to get. Lots of beef organs, very little insulin, so the supply didn't meet the need. Here (Caulerpa taxifolia) is another website for a Nova PBS show that is more suited to APC, and my bridge to getting back on topic .:-D It talks about how an aquarium plant species was released into the wild and is harming the Mediteranian. That is also a problem with the Asian (Golden) Clams that I was interested in. They have been released along with Zebra Clams, and are out-competing native species like the pea or pill clam in N America. I read it in this guide researching clams as an alternative filter cleaner for my crotchety old Beta, Gordon. I haven't been able to keep any shrimp or snails with him. Of course, I wouldn't have released any unwanted plants or animals. But reading about how Asian clams are bigger and reproduce faster decided the issue. The pill clams might have worked if I got them (with permission) from local waters. But I'd only need one for a one gallon Beta NPT, and if it died it would foul the water before I discovered it's death. It was still fun to research, even if I didn't try it. I like learning new stuff too. And I love PBS, even if I don't always agree with them. We don't have cable TV, but we have 5 PBS stations. Whole family of geeks!


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Also, I believe Diana's Diseased Fish Sticky stated MB has so far been resistant to known treatments. Yes the UV did cost $55 so it was a splurge. Also a Christmas present, because I felt it was a safety issue since I have a little one may stick his hands in the tank (though he hasn't as far as I know). But I can use this UV filter in a larger set-up when I can do one later.


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## schaadrak (Aug 18, 2006)

I'm sorry to here about your fish. It sucks to watch pets waste away and sucks to have to put them down.

As for your filter feeder problem, have you tried bamboo/wood shrimp. They're a very enjoyable filter feeder and might be large enough to deter any unwanted attention from your betta. as far as scavengers go, you should consider dwarf cajun crayfish. They're known to be more peaceful and way less destructive than regular crayfish. They should be able to stand up to your betta.

Also for anyone else interested in FW clams, _most_ FW species' larval stage are parasitic cysts that attach to fish's gills. It doesn't always cause death, but it sure is uncomfortable looking.

HTH


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

I didn't know there was a crayfish that would work with plants. I think they are neat. Used to catch the local ones when I was a kid. Good bit of info. Thanks.

The Asian or Golden Clams, and N. American the pill/pea/fingernail clams do not have a host larval stage. I think the Zebra Clams may. Zebras are such a pest: bigger, breed like cockroaches and clog public and industrial water pipes. I don't think they'd be good in any aquarium. They may work for someone with a very large set-up, with an excellent scavenger who could find the dead before they fouled the water. A very large tank might be able to offset the bacterial problem for a short time. They do need a large quantity of water to filter. This is just my own extrapolation. Even one pill clam might not have worked for my Beta Gallon NPT. (?) 

I will try the burrowing snails at some point. (MTS?) The household has now declared a moratorium on my spending/expansion in the hobby, and the LFS won't reach in a pluck a free snail for me (I asked). Same store that sold the sick GloFish, BTW. 

I am excited about my NPTs. And I look forward to reading everything here at APC. You guys are great!


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