# Ph, Florabase, CO2, and fertilizers



## milalic (Aug 26, 2005)

Hi there. I am new to the forum. I currently have a 58G tank that was planted but some misfortunes happened during my vacation. Too long to explain. I am redoing everything this time. I currently have a florabase substrate. I am reading a PH of around 6.2-6.4. Tap water comes out around 7.4-7.6. I think those readings on the PH are not accurate. A few questions:

1. Are these PH readins accurate in my tank? I have used two kits and also went to a LFS.
2. I am scared to introduce C02 to my tank having the PH to drop more and kill my fish...do you think this will happen?
3. What fertilizers do you recommend?What quantities for a well planted tank with around 2.5-3 wpg?
4. Are Seachem products good?

Thanks


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Welcome to APC  

1) If the test kits and LFS are coming out with the same readings then I would say those are accurate readings.

2) Test your KH before adding C02, it should be at 3 or above. You can add baking soda to your water to raise KH which in turn will raise the PH. Also run the C02 only during the day and/or use a air stone at night.

3) You can use the Seachem line of ferts or buy bulk from Greg Watson, both are our sponsors. I would start out with the recommended dosage, then you can increase or decrease depending on how your plants look.

4) Yes, Seachem are good ferts. I use them myself along with Greg Watson's ferts.


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## milalic (Aug 26, 2005)

I currently have fish. If I add the baking soda to the tank and the ph goes up, will it affect my fish?


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

FloraBase, much like Aquasoil, will lower the KH of the tank at first so it's very feasable that those are the correct pH readings you are getting. Unfortunately, this skews the pH/KH CO2 chart that most of us use to estimate CO2 levels so you'll have to play with the CO2 a little bit to get it right by feel.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

milalic said:


> I currently have fish. If I add the baking soda to the tank and the ph goes up, will it affect my fish?


Gradually increases in PH up or down will not hurt your fish. A teaspoon of baking soda will increase KH in 13 gallons of water by 4 degrees


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## milalic (Aug 26, 2005)

I have my water parameters.(ppm)
The following are for my tank:

PH - 6.2
Hardness - 120
Alkalinity - 0
Nitrite - 0
Ammonia - 0
Nitrates - 20

For my tap water:
PH - 7.6
Hardness - 120
Alkalinity - 120


The Florabase says on the bag that it maintains ph between 6.5-7.
I also have a driftwood piece in there. Might this be lowering my ph too much?
Should I remove it? What to do with my PH and KH? I do not think with this readings I can add a CO2 system.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

You can add CO2 just fine. You have to go by feel instead of numbers though. Start out with about 2 bubbles / sec if see if you need to increase it any after that.


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## milalic (Aug 26, 2005)

why by feel?


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

milalic said:


> why by feel?


Because that is the only way to do it if you use any sort of peat in your tank, wether it be in the filter or via the substrate. The lowering of the KH by peat results in a skewing of the pH/KH CO2 chart so this cannot be used to estimate CO2 ppm present in the water. Before you ask, there is no other CO2 chart to use for peat based substrates so you have to go by feel. It's really not that scary to go by feel. I've NEVER used a pH controller and rarely do I check pH. I simply start at a small flow of CO2 and gradually increase it every day until I see the plants begin to pearl a little bit about midday; about 2 bubbles/sec on the bubble counter should be a good starting point for your 58 gallon.


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## milalic (Aug 26, 2005)

Thanks for all the help. I will give it a try and see what happens. 
I hope I do not kill my fish.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

If you already do have a pH controller you can still use it. You just have to find out how. Find the pH of the tank w/out the CO2 running for a day and set the controller to 0.1 degrees lower than that and slowly work your way down until you get the small amount of pearling each day around midday.


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## milalic (Aug 26, 2005)

Do they always pearl around midday?Or does this depends on when your lights are turned on?


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## frankthetank (Jul 29, 2004)

*Proper PH / KH Readings with Florabase*

I've had a few planted tanks with DIY CO2, but have never used Florabase as a substrate until now. I just set up a small 10g planted only tank (for now), and have used a 10# bag of Florabase and am seeing some very odd PH and KH numbers. Below is the specs on my tank:

10 gallon standard
10# bag of florabase substrate
65watt CF light 12 on/12 off
2 Liter DIY CO2 @ 1 bubble/sec
Dispersing CO2 via powerhead

I measured the levels of Ph and KH a day after I added the CO2:
Ph: 5.0
KH: 5
CO2 chart: 1550ppm???

Turned off CO2 completely and measured again 4 hrs later:
Ph: 5.0
KH: 4
CO2 chart: 1284ppm

At CO2 levels like that, my fish tank should be looking like a big tank of soda water! I'm not sure what this indicates, if anything, but I know Florabase acts as a Ph buffer (6.5-7). How does it do this, and could this be the reason behind these oddly high readings? Any thoughts?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

The PH/KH/CO2 chart is based on a theoretical system with only CO2 and carbonates or bicarbonates in the water, as far as anything affecting PH or KH is concerned. Once you add a buffer to the water that theoretical situation doesn't exist and the equation relating CO2 to PH and KH isn't correct. If the KH is constant you can use the equation successfully by measuring the PH of the water from the tank after it has outgassed for several hours, down to a known ppm of CO2, which can be assumed to be about 3 or 4 ppm. Then the decrease in PH from adding CO2 to the tank will be 1.0 if the ppm of CO2 is 30-40 ppm. But, if that 1.0 is only .3 higher or lower, the ppm of CO2 is either double or half the 30-40 ppm. (double if 1.3 and half if 0.7.) So, accurate measurements of PH are necessary for this to work.


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## frankthetank (Jul 29, 2004)

*Measurement accuracy for fish health*

Thanks for the reply! I'll take the co2 out for a long period of time and test everything and let you know what I find out.

One more question: for people that currently use Florabase or any other PH buffering materials, how can you be certain of your Ph levels? My main concern is with the health of the fish, so I want to measure the Ph accurately.

Any suggestions?


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