# Trying to find balance... Any Advice?



## Darter02 (Feb 19, 2007)

So I am having all sorts of problems establishing balance in my aquarium. I know I've a problem with nutrient control, and maybe trace element control as well, but I can't seem to get a grip on things yet.

I'm going to post photos of some of the problems I am having and see if anyone can give me ideas on how to correct things&#8230;

Water Parameters: 
82°F (~28°C)
PH: ~ 6ish (drops lower from CO2 - was 6.5 before CO2 injection)
KH/GH: ~ 3 - 4° (I think&#8230
Ammonia/Nitrites: 0ppm
Nitrates: 10 - 15ppm
Phosphate: 2pmm

I do not know the Fe or any of that stuff yet&#8230; no test kits yet&#8230;

First, I did clear up my green algae water using a UV filter. I also need to really TRIM back a lot of the plants now, I just will not have time until this Sunday&#8230;

*Look ma, no green water!*









Of course, this means the underlying nutrient over balance went somewhere else! I just can SEE it better! Yoinks!

*Algae around the Micro Swords*









I've no idea what this stuff is. It ONLY grows around the Micro Swords, and not anywhere else. You can see how the roots have been pulled up by the cories on the right side. This stuff seems to grow where roots are exposed. I am thinking about just removing this plant as I have the wrong substrate for it.

Also note the fine algae on the substrate gravel&#8230;

*What Java Moss???*









I had a really nice growth of Java Moss here. It turned into some sort of lengthy algae. I have no idea what kind it is as no two sites with photos seem to agree on what is what. It only grows on the Java Moss, though some has ended up tangled in the plants around it.

*Java ALGAE detail*









*Tangled in the Bacopa australis*









*This algae also likes CO2!*








The stuff growing on the Java Moss also seems to make a LOT of bubbles!

My Crypt (is that how it's spelled?) plants are also doing strange things. All of the pre-CO2 injection leaf growth is "melting" and new growth is appearing, but a darker color. Is this normal?

*Old Crypt leaves melting*









They have lots of holes, and sometimes just fall off completely. They also produce a lot of bubbles coming out of these wholes and tears.

*New Growth on Crypts*








New leaves appear to be darker in color and grow large quickly. You can also note some green spot algae on the old leaves near this leaf.

*Tiny new leaf*









*Algae on Stump*









This thing has been like this since almost the beginning of the tank. I see a lot of things picking at it, SAEs, groups of Pencilfish, Otos, the Pleco and now Nerite snails all take turns at it. It doesn't really bother me too much&#8230;

*Algae on Rocks*









I don't think this is the same stuff as on the wood, it's shorter and darker and bubbles now that I have CO2 injection. As with the wood, I see everyone graze on it. It too doesn't bother me too much.

*Algae on the Ludwigia*









OK, this fuzz DOES bother me! This on the newest growth too!!

*Dying Java Fern*









My Java fern, which had been doing well, is now turning brown and rotting. The daughter plants seem OK though. Is this normal??? I also have green spot algae on the leaves&#8230;

*Algae Fighters!*




























Added a few Siamese Algae Eaters and some Olive Nerite Snails. They seem to be enjoying themselves but I know are not the answer. I still need to get control of the nutrient problem.


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

I think some more info would help:

- Tank volume
- Type and amount of lighting as well as photoperiod.
- What and how much are you currently fertilizing?


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## ianmoede (Jan 17, 2005)

Things to try, lower the light level, increase your CO2, and maybe try a diffuser instead of a reactor. All those things have worked for me


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

From the look of your tank, you have sufficient light to grow all those plants.

I'd keep nitrate around 10 ppm and phosphate around 1 ppm. Remove as much algae as possible by dipping affected plants in 19 water/1 bleach solution for *20 to 30 seconds*. Rinse well with tap water before returning to tank. Clean filter and tank, and replace 80% of the old water with clean water. Change 50% of the water 3x/week.

What's your potassium level? You'll also need to add some micro-nutrients and chelated iron. Cut the light to 4 hours per day.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Make sure your test kits are calibrated. Make sure your CO2 is in a good range (drop checker recommended).

The algae on the pic of the microsword looks like cladophora to me. If so, this is one of the tougher ones to get rid of. It would be good to know tank volume and amt of lighting, and how long tank has been set up. But assuming it's in the 2-3wpg range, I'd cut the photoperiod down to 8 hours. If it's a new tank, you're going to need to be a little more patient. 

Manually remove/clean/prune as much as possible. Do a major (60-70%) water change and gravel vac where you can reach, (if tank's new don't vac). I would then dose around 5-10ppm of NO3, and 1-2ppm PO4 at that time. The next day dose your micros. Midweek, I would add 5ppm NO3, and 1ppm PO4, next day, do micros. 

If it were my tank, I would also do the Excel OD routine. That's how I got rid of a small amt of clado a while ago.

Patience, and long term stability will eventually get you there. Once the tank stabilizes, you can tweak things as needed. Good luck!


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

By far these are the best "Help Me with Algae" photos I've ever seen in a thread. A little more information would still be helpful:

Tank size & shape
Substrate
Lighting fixture, bulbs, photoperiod
Age of setup
Exact fertilization routine (source of ferts, quantities, consistency)
Schedule of WC's.

Anything else you can provide about the setup will help too. Test kits lie. It's actually more useful to know how much you dose and how often you do WC's.

I agree with Bert - patience is the single thing you'll need most of. Algae can be conquered!

The sad truth is that plants that are heavily colonized will almost always need to go. The bleach dip thing can work, but it often leaves the plants in such a sorry state that they'll become rapidly "attacked" again. I personally haven't had that much luck with Excel, but I've never really pushed the dose that strongly either. I recently went through algae hell in a 180g tank and basically had to flood the tank with expendable fast-growers for a few weeks to get ahead of it. Anything that isn't actively growing is probably decomposing and just adding to the problem. I threw away buckets full of dead & dying plants.

The key for me was consistency. Religious dosing of ferts, consistent CO2, religious WC's, manual removal of algae and patience - tons of patience - worked for me. I disagree that less light is always good. About 7 or 8 hours of strong quality light is what I'd go with. Once the needs of the plants are met the battle is 80% won.

As far as the crypts go, when mine do this a few root tabs bring back robust growth within a few weeks. The other funny thing is that I've almost never seen algae do much damage to crypts. Yours just look hungry to me.

SAE's and snails don't do that much for the green fuzz. Shrimp are probably best, but even then, they'll eat just about anything else first if it's available.


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

Could you also tell us the temperature at which you keep your tank. I see that you have discus, so I assume that you are keeping things in the 82-84F range. Some stem plants are less happy in this range and may be more susceptible to algae. * 

*(Disclaimer: This is just a hypothesis. I have no real experience with discus or plants at temperatures above 79F. Others here can tell you more about this. No matter what your temperature is, proper light CO2 and fertilization are the top priorities for plant health.)

Edit: I see that you have things at 82F. This is a happy temp for discus, but perhaps lees-so for plants


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

One more thing....

It will be great when you get things under control, because you take great pics! Even your algae looks pretty.  Good luck!


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## ianmoede (Jan 17, 2005)

In summation. Keep the CO2 as high and as champagne misty as possible (if that makes sense), manual algae removal, followed by continually lowering your light until you find a balance that works. Ferts are probably the lowest priority.


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## Darter02 (Feb 19, 2007)

*First, let me apologize for not responding sooner. Life has been busy these days.*



Laith said:


> I think some more info would help:
> 
> - Tank volume
> - Type and amount of lighting as well as photoperiod.
> -	What and how much are you currently fertilizing?


It's a 75 gallon tank. I use two fixtures. One is a Coralife quad, compact fluorescent with 6700°K and 260watts. The other is a standard 4' with a Colormax bulb to highlight the fish. I run them on a timer for 10/day. I am going to break that up into two 5 hour periods with a 2 hour break. I just need to get a couple of new timers to coordinate the on & off. My local planted tank club also recommended that I have the CO2 turn on an hour before the lights, so I need to get that set up as well.

I have been using Flourish and Excel. I've stopped using the Flourish as much and am now dosing Potassium and Iron.



ianmoede said:


> Things to try, lower the light level, increase your CO2, and maybe try a diffuser instead of a reactor. All those things have worked for me


I am using an ADA Glass Pollen diffuser. The CO2 has only been install for 3 weeks now, 2 weeks as of the initial post here. I am sure a lot of my problems were from having high lights and no CO2 for almost 2 months.



furballi said:


> From the look of your tank, you have sufficient light to grow all those plants.
> 
> I'd keep nitrate around 10 ppm and phosphate around 1 ppm. Remove as much algae as possible by dipping affected plants in 19 water/1 bleach solution for *20 to 30 seconds*. Rinse well with tap water before returning to tank. Clean filter and tank, and replace 80% of the old water with clean water. Change 50% of the water 3x/week.
> 
> What's your potassium level? You'll also need to add some micro-nutrients and chelated iron. Cut the light to 4 hours per day.


I need to get a test kit for Potassium. I really do not know the level. I also did a major trim/cleaning last Thursday and will tack that info into this post later. I also do very regular water changes due to the Discus. I'm sort of leery of using bleach. I hate the stuff but will experiment with it. Thanks for the advice as to how to mix and use it.



Bert H said:


> Make sure your test kits are calibrated. Make sure your CO2 is in a good range (drop checker recommended).
> 
> The algae on the pic of the microsword looks like cladophora to me. If so, this is one of the tougher ones to get rid of. It would be good to know tank volume and amt of lighting, and how long tank has been set up. But assuming it's in the 2-3wpg range, I'd cut the photoperiod down to 8 hours. If it's a new tank, you're going to need to be a little more patient.
> 
> ...


That stuff that looks like clado was only on the exposed roots of the micro swords. I simply pulled it all up and now it's all gone with the exception of a piece or two on gravel where the micro swords where. I will pick that stuff out too.

I'll keep the note on the dosing suggestion. I'm still sorting out what all that means&#8230;



guaiac_boy said:


> By far these are the best "Help Me with Algae" photos I've ever seen in a thread. A little more information would still be helpful:
> 
> Tank size & shape
> Substrate
> ...


Thanks for the advice. I think I answered some of this already.

I'll get some root tabs for the Crypts too! Although, I am happy to say, the new leaves are growing bigger and more are growing out. All of the old growth is now almost gone as I also trimmed off a lot of it.

OH, about strong dosing with Excel, I really do not plan on doing that. I am afraid it could harm my fish should they swim through it.

As for Shrimp, well, I did an experiment with Ghost Shrimp and the Discus found them delicious!



Kelley said:


> Could you also tell us the temperature at which you keep your tank. I see that you have discus, so I assume that you are keeping things in the 82-84F range. Some stem plants are less happy in this range and may be more susceptible to algae. *
> 
> *(Disclaimer: This is just a hypothesis. I have no real experience with discus or plants at temperatures above 79F. Others here can tell you more about this. No matter what your temperature is, proper light CO2 and fertilization are the top priorities for plant health.)
> 
> Edit: I see that you have things at 82F. This is a happy temp for discus, but perhaps lees-so for plants


I tried to chose most of my plants and fish around the temperature. I do keep it at 82°F. I used the Tropica site, looking for plants that were South American and could take the temp. There are some in there that are temporary, like the Ludwigia and Rotala. I just wanted them as a nutrient sponge.



ianmoede said:


> In summation. Keep the CO2 as high and as champagne misty as possible (if that makes sense), manual algae removal, followed by continually lowering your light until you find a balance that works. Ferts are probably the lowest priority.


Cool beans! "Champagne" I've got these days! LOL

And now to my update with photos:

I thought I'd just post a recent photo of the changes I've made.

*CO2 - Week 3 - Post 1st Trim*









I've tried some of the suggestions from here as well as other forums, so will be posting this same thing around. So far, most of the advice has been really helpful. I really love the online community! It's amazing how much I am learning!

First, I increased dosing of Potassium and also adding some Iron. I'm still using Floursh and Excel but stopped the Flourish for now.

I removed all of the Java Moss. The algae that was on it was just too embedded. There are still some strands stuck to the locations where it was. I'm hoping the moss will come back and not the algae. I can still find bits of it here and there, not connected to anything, but tangled in other plants. I just remove it.

I trimmed the Bacopa australis from the front stands and replaced the Rotala to the middle/back left with the cuttings. I hope to do the same with the stand on the middle/back right as well.

I installed a UV filter in the back left corner. It really worked on eliminating the Green Water Algae! I removed a lot of the bottom growth of the Western Milfoil and the center/back stand. I used the cuttings to hide the UV filter. It's amazing how fast that plant grows!

* Gymnocoronis spilanthoides*









In the very back center, I was able to trim one my Gymnocoronis spilanthoides stalks in two. Now I have three growing back there. I hope to eventually have this as my main background plants, replacing the Ludwigia and Milfoil. I'm told it will really suck up the extra nutrients that cause me so much trouble.

*Chain Sword*









The Chain Sword in the front is exploding with growth! Runners are heading out in all directions. I'm letting the daughters grow a little more before cutting the runners. I can see where I'll be pulling this plant up soon enough to keep clear substrate areas. I need to leave space for the Discus to feed after all.

Almost all of the old leaves, which had algae on them, are gone. I see no algae on the new growth!

*Runners*









*Dwarf Sublata*








It's finally starting to grow and spread! Again, no algae on the new growth!

(Note the "pug" face of the Bleeding Heart? She came that way and seems to do fine. I also have one with only one eye&#8230; )

*MINE! IT'S ALL MINE!!*








I just thought it was a funny pic&#8230; LOL

Also notice all the tiny bubble? My tank is now full of these, both from the CO2 and also off the plants!


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Glad to see things are improving for you!


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## Darter02 (Feb 19, 2007)

Thanks to everyone online for all the help!!

*~9 Weeks of CO2 Injection - Pre weekly trim!*


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## vicpinto (Mar 27, 2007)

Wow! Amazing what a little Co2 can do heh?


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