# Hydroton vs Gravel + growth rate



## EDGE

Most plants were planted in Nov 2005. New photos taken Feb 12 2006.

All the plants are grown in a 75G heated to 73f with a powerhead 201 as circulation. 110 watt PC only.

Fertilizer is a DIY custom mix with CaNO3, K2SO4, KNO3, MgSO4, and trace. I started adding NH4SO4 and K2SO4 mix solution in the middle of the weekly cycle about 1 month ago. I will start adding trace at the same time as the NH4SO4 and K2SO4 mix starting this week. I have notice trace deficiency is starting to show up on other plants in the setup.

C. Wendtii 'Mi oya' Both plant started out with similar size and plant mass. 
The little plant is not a runner. It is a new plant from a piece of rhizome.










C. wendtii Tropica. from Nov 2005 to Feb 2006

Nov 2005. This wendtii was brought it from the outdoor in early Nov when the weather were lower to 4 to 6c at night. It took a beating from the cold winter night.









Feb 12, 2006. There is a new plantlet hidden under the leaves. Most of the leaves in this photo are new leaves. The leaves from Nov 2005 have melted off.









C. crisp var balansae 'red'. Transfer from submersed to emersed around mid December, 2005.










C. crisp var balansae 'red' Feb 12, 2006


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## HeyPK

The stuff looks like dog food! I looked it up on Google and found that the manufacturer says that it is 'expanded clay', is almost completely inert and does not provide any nutrients, just good aeration. I wouldn't have thought that crypt roots, with their capacity to live in anaerobic mud, would need good aeration.


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## EDGE

One of the article posted by xema awhile back about emersed crypt explains why crypts can grow in mud.

Jacobsen did say, "C. ferruginea and C. fusca have been cultivated in just leaf mould alone - c. 10 cm on the bottom (pH c. 4.5). This bottom is very soft, almost like thin porridge or mud that you hardly can get a handful of, because it runs through you fingers."

At the liquid state, it isn't really anaerobic; at least I don't think it is anaerobic. The roots are not being suffocated by the thickness/heaviness of the mud.

Here is the repost of the link.

http://132.229.93.11/Cryptocoryne/Botanical/documents/Jacobsen/Fagus soil/Fagus_soil.doc

I have been toying around with hydroton for a while, but never did have any sucess until I start playing around with the fertilizer ratio. I am using an approx 10-1-3 ratio. The next step is to use the same idea but with pH 5.5 from peat water to try the more acidic crypt. Hopefully, I will have some result by August.


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## HeyPK

Thanks for the link, Edge. 

I am sure that a submersed soil composed largely of partially decomposed leaves would be quite anaerobic. However, crypts have large roots with large air channels that supply oxygen to the roots. The oxygen diffuses out of the roots and creates an oxygenated zone around the roots. My point is, if crypt roots have air channels that supply oxygen, why would the plants grow better in the hydroton balls than in aquarium gravel? Sure, the gravel will be more water-logged and will have less oxygen than the balls, but why would that make a difference to the roots? I am thinking that perhaps anaerobic conditions in the gravel may degrade the nutrient solution in some way that makes nutrients less available to the plant. Or, perhaps the balls soak up a lot of the nutrient solution so that it remains available to the plants a lot longer than it would be with gravel, where, once the solution drains out, there is only solution on the surface of the gravel pieces, and that would be a lot less than what the balls would hold. Maybe that is it! If that is the case, then running the solution through the gravel more frequently would make the plants do better.

Something else I noticed---There is no algae growing on the balls. I wonder why.


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## Xema

I would like point out aobut soil issue.

I think is not the same situation plants growing in nature, than plants growing in a home. In nature there are many factors, as subterrain water flow, nutrients cycles, decayed leaves accumalation, etc.

So I think in our artificial eviroment, oxygen is very importat in the root development. Growing on leaf-mould, could seem as an anaerobic soil, but it has a lof of air space between the debris of leaves, highly acid, so bad Organic matter descomposition, low comsuption of oxygen too.
I think a porous soil structure is highly recommended, but your hydroton has a enought large grain...


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## Freemann

Thanks for the link as well Edge.
Very nice growth and "clean" setup.
Can you describe your fertilization regime?
Are the plants emersed in the nutrient solution completely or partially, or you just run the solution through the pots every little and while? (Jacobsen I think used to do that on his soil pots). Is the 10-1-3 the ppm on the final solution after preparation? (can you be a bit more specific?).
Thanks in advance.
freemann


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## EDGE

To my knowledge, I don't believe hydroton soak up nutrients; however, due to the size of the hydroton, there is a lot of air and water current moving through it. This assist the plant with o2 around the roots instead of making the plant push o2 down to the root for growing. I have the powerhead place with the nozzle above the water to create a constant supply of o2 mix into the water like a river current. The algae is bga and it seems to grow where it is wet. Hydroton only remains moist from humidity and not soaking wet like gravel when it is not in contact with water. They also dry out a lot faster if left in the open. 

The bga was also noticable in my last year outdoor emersed setup when the hydroton was submersed in water. I was trying to use a raft system with hydroton, but the raft got too heavy and the pots sink below water line. The bga suffocated a lot of plants last year. 

2 years ago, I had the same problem with bga covering the top of the pot as well. It was my first year with emersed and I had a mixed of 80% peat 20% sand mix in a 5" pot. 

The nutrients burns out faster in this hybrid hydroponic setup. Thats why you can see minor deficency in trace and K. Plants does not have the support of soil to feed the plant. Have to treat this setup similar to aquarium setup. The only difference is instead of adding 10 ppm no3 at a time and add 2-5 ppm daily, I add 120+ ppm at start and replenish the nutrients 3-4 days after. This is the same for K in the water.


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## EDGE

*fertilizing regime:*

I do a system flush weekly. Usually on Friday and add a DIY solution mix of CaNO3, KNO3, K2SO4, MgSO4, trace, and KH2PO4.

I do not add CO3 to the water.

I premix the solution in 3 different bottle giving me a result of approx 10-1-3 NO3-PO4-K.

1st solution 
CaNO3

2nd solution
KNO3, K2SO4, MgSO4, KH2PO4

3rd solution
trace

I mixed the solution so if I add 10 ml of 1st solution, I will add 10 ml of 2nd solution and 10 ml of 3rd solution.

I add enough of the solution to give me a gH of 5 which yields around a NO3 of 120+ ppm. speaking of which, I use the *fertiliator* for all the calculation. Good thing we have the fertiliator for our use.

About 3-4 days after the new cycle, I add ammonium sulphate and potassium sulphate mixed solution. I have no idea how much of that I add. I don't have the chemical background to calculate it.

*Setup:*

this is a 75G tank with 110 watt PC coralife ENCLOSED system. Lighting is enough for growing most of the stem plants and all the crypts, but not enough light for echinodorus. outdoor emersed setup is the best for echinodorus and stem plants. I had some 3.5" wide nesaea crassicaulis outdoor last year, but can't get more than 1.5" wide indoor. The nesaea always looks like they are ready to die in the indoor setup.

The water is approx 1.5" deep. Enough to cover the heater and powerhead. This will result in the water being above the openings on the side the mesh pot. I don't have the worry about stale water near the crown of the plant since all the opening around the pots will have water movement at the bottom.

There is a few snail in the emersed setup to keep the brown algae down at the bottom of the tank. By the end of the week, there is a pile of poo collected in a corner which I syphon out weekly.

temperature 73f
Circulation is with a powerhead 201 and a prefilter attach.

*Plant:*

Like most hydroponic system. The roots mass with this setup is minimal. I don't see a lot of roots coming out of the pot. Personally, I prefer if the plants didn't send long roots out of the pot. Moving the pots around in the setup will kill the roots sticking out of the pot.

*idea/design:*

This idea/design orginally came from the hydroponic raft system. It used to sit in styrofoam and float around the tank. The problem was when I flush out the system, I had to drain the tank down first and fill it back up. The roots were getting crush when pots hit the bottom causing the roots to rot.

Now I took out the styrofoam and have the pots sit in the bottom. Less hassle with cleaning, and a lot cheaper without buying the styrofoam.

*NOTE*
This is what I have learn from this setup. Do not use 5" pot and 3" pot in the same system. The 5" pot keeps the plants too far away from the water and create growth problems and mostly like die from no nutrients.

I have to use 5" pots for growing runner type plants. hydrocotyle, and lilaeposis. etc. I use 5" pots as well for large stem plants such as nesaea, and limnophila.

I will post up photos of other emersed plant in the emersed forum.


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## EDGE

1 month after last set of photo

C. wendtii 'Tropica' March 15, 2006









C. crispatula. var balansae 'red' March 15, 2006









The C wendtii 'Mi oya' didn't grow too much this month. Hopefully, there will be better result for next month now that they are out in the open.


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## EDGE

More update: Apr 25, 2006

this time I didn't used a flash to take the photo.

Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Tropica'

top view









front view









Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Mi oya'

The large plant in the hydroton melted, what you see there is the original little plant off to the side

top view









front view


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## ruki

Wow.

That's great. I bet this makes everything more portable and very easy to clean.

I've been doing something a bit similar for immersed crypts by planting them in pots with florabase, but haven't had excellent or terrible results with that approach as of yet.


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## EDGE

I just use a hose to syphon out the water from the tank. moving the plants around is rather convenient, but this is also dependent on the quality of the pot. The net/mesh flimsy pot warps when picking it up while the stiff net/mesh pots stay in shape.


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## rs79

The clay balls are available at hydroponics.com franchises; there's one near here. I asked about them and how inert they are and was told they tend to make the water more alkaline and the people that use them in large quantities (uh, pot farmers) flush their whole setups out with nitric acid every six months to combat the alkalinity.

The orchid guys use them - a lot. Singaport airport is stuffed full of orchids in pots with this stuff. This would seem to contradict the idea they make the water more alkaline. Maybe in the "grow table" operations the pot guys use it's simple evaporative loss that builds up minerals and therefore alkalinity.


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## Khamul1of9

Do you know why it melted? And do you have any updates? 
Thanks.



EDGE said:


> More update: Apr 25, 2006
> 
> this time I didn't used a flash to take the photo.
> 
> Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Tropica'
> 
> top view
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> 
> 
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> 
> front view
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Mi oya'
> 
> The large plant in the hydroton melted, what you see there is the original little plant off to the side
> 
> top view
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> front view


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