# [Wet Thumb Forum]-PO4



## swannee (Jun 11, 2005)

I have a 65 US gal (48x18x18) set up for about a month and I seem to be getting thread algae on Java Fern & Java moss, the other plants dont seem to be a problem at this point.

Plants seem to be growing well and fast, mostly easy plants Bacopa monnieri? (sold as moneywort) Lace Fern?, Elodea/Anacharis, Eleochans acicublaris (Hair grass),Anubias barteri "nana", Microsorium pteropus (Java fern), Vesicularia dubyana (Java moss), Vallisneria spiralis (corkscrew vail) & a Banana lily

DIY CO2 (2x2L pepsi bottles)
KH 8
PH 7
NO3 0
PO4 10+ (had to order kit, tested first time since setup)
Lighting 4x38watt (Phillips Aquarelle)12 hrs

Question is small water changes say 20 or 30 litres every day, or 2 bloody big ones to bring them down like right now?


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

i have a couple suggestions for you. first, yes, you should so several water changes. with a po4 reading of 10 plus or minus a bit, that is way too much, and i am sure you are aware of this.

bare with me: with a reading of 10ppm, if you do a 50% wc, technically your po4 should go to 5ppm, plus or minus some for your po4 in the tap water. so,

1 50%wc = 6ppm
second 50% wc yeilds 3ppm
third 50% wc yeilds 1.5ppm which is a good number.

now you also need to add no3. i use kno3, a bulk powder. with a no3 reading of 0ppm, this tells me that your plants are starving and they need more nitrate (no3).

if you can get your po4 down to 1.5 with 3-4 50% water changes, then your nitrate will need to be at 10-15ppm. (plants prefer a 10-1 ratio of nitrate/phosphate). meaning that if you have 1.5ppm po4, you should shoot for 15ppm no3.

i know that money dosn't grow on trees, even in america







, but diy co2 in a larger tank, when your plants fill in, and you get more plants, is usually not enough. so, you should probably look into pressurized co2 in the future.


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

oh, by the way, you should spread the water changes out over the next couple of weeks to bring it down SLOWLY, so your plants don't get "shocked".

and also, welcome to the forum!


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## swannee (Jun 11, 2005)

Thanks russell I hear what you are saying about pressurized co2, but I'm afraid it's not in the budget this year







and the KNO3 isn't going to be easy here either, but I'm still working on it!!!Although I didn't stop to think that a big change in the water parameters would or could shock the plants so Thank You russell you have been very helpful


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## swannee (Jun 11, 2005)

Did a 130L water change on my 250L tank and the PO4 went from 10+ to 10+ , and I'm running a AP Phos-Zorb bag in my Fluval 304.

So am I to belive my PO4 is that far off the chart? is is my AP test kit not working? (tested tap water and get 0ppm)

What am I looking for here, I'm at a loss


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

You really need to maintain your nitrates at about 5 to about 15. I buy KNO3 in powder form here for about a US dollar a pound. It is a commonly used agricultural fertilizer.

In larger quantities it is also used to make bombs, so if you elect to buy it, don't try to buy a five year supply or you might get some unwanted attention <g>

Good luck!

Bill


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

> In larger quantities it is also used to make bombs, so if you elect to buy it, don't try to buy a five year supply or you might get some unwanted attention


lol

swannee, it is likely that your test kit may be faulty. if i were you, i would test the tap water again. be sure to let it sit for 24 hours in a glass before you test it. as for the cause of it....not sure, maybe you have a high fish load? i'm not entirely sure if fish give out much po4 in their waste.

you know the math, if tap water is actually 0, then a 50% change with the tank at 10ppm should yield 5ppm in your tank.

next you might look at your tank, and tell us if you have anything "unusual" in there such as driftwood and rocks. (though i doubt that would be the cause of it)


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## imported_shalu (Feb 13, 2004)

I bought 50lb each of KNO3 and K2SO4 really cheap


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## swannee (Jun 11, 2005)

> Originally posted by Billpers:
> You really need to maintain your nitrates at about 5 to about 15. I buy KNO3 in powder form here for about a US dollar a pound. It is a commonly used agricultural fertilizer.
> 
> In larger quantities it is also used to make bombs, so if you elect to buy it, don't try to buy a five year supply or you might get some unwanted attention <g>
> ...


NO WAY I can buy it here in Australia!!!!Farmers and Chemists have to have a permit to get it here, tried Aquarium(LFS)within 60k's looking for seachem nitrogen or anything that will bring up nitrate levels , notta, fuffin







But what I have found is some SEAWEED PLANT FOOD CONCENTRATE contains Seaweed Extract 7.00%, Nitrogen(N) as Urea 4.60%, Phosphorus(P) as Water Soluble 1.20%, Potassium(K) as Phosphate 3.10%, Sulphur(S) as Sulphate 0.06%, Iron(Fe) as EDTA 0.05%, Copper(Cu) as Sulphate 0.05%, Zinc(Zn) as Sulphate 0.03%, Manganese(Mn) as Sulphate 0.03%, Boron(B) as Borate 0.01%, Molybdenum(Mo) as Molybdate 0.0002%, Biuret(MAX) 0.04% So I'll either get some nitrates happening here or kill everything in the tank trying!!! comments & any ideas on how much to dose most welcome


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## swannee (Jun 11, 2005)

WELL that doesnt work what can i say WELCOME to AUSTRALIA MATE! GOD I wish I was back home in the USofA


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Hydroponic supply stores might carry forms of nitrate that you could use.

There are also products that are used to dissolve tree stumps. Some of these are pure
KNO3. Try a local hardware store. (Check the label carefully, though.)

And then there is that old standby, fish. If you have enough of them and feed them well, these nitrate generators will give you all that you need. I have a heavily-planted, heavily stocked 29 gallon tank that maintains a nitrate level of 40 PPM without dosing.

Happy searching, good luck. 

Bill


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## swannee (Jun 11, 2005)

so in a planted the sky the limit on stocking levels? (add a few fish every week until I start seeing some niterate levels?)

Compaired to some of the pics of tanks I've seen, I would hardly call mine heavily planted and I was kinda thinking was stocked kinda heavy 15 H.Rasbora, 4 Panda Corys, 2 Otto's, 2 Powder Blue Grourami's, 1 Bristlenose, & 1 Redtail Black Shark and MANY THANKS for your input Bill


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Well, the sky is not quite the limit, but you could easily add more fish to your tank. You also have to feed them well. I feed dry food once or twice a day until it begins dropping to the bottom, untouched.

You have a nice looking aquarium!

Bill


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## Ben C (Apr 16, 2006)

hey swannee,

just wanted to let you know that i had trouble finding ferts here in Japan and ended up ordering them through a normal chemist. Go to an independent one, rather than a chainstore, and they can order almost anything from their suppliers... medicine or not.
i DID have to sign for some of the stuff, and give my contact details but i'm not using it for anything dodgy, so it was ok. 
you could always try that route. 
good luck. Oh and looking at the picture of your tank.. i thought "good god!! they guy has dolphins in his tank!!"
funny.


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## swannee (Jun 11, 2005)

OK another question for you guys Fluval 304, has 3 trays split into 2 each for a total of 6, the filter came with enough noodles for 3 trays and 3 bags of carbon, I have all 6 filled with noddles! now how does this work? does the bacterial bed help make more niterates or do the filter and the plants compete for the ammonia and niterites?


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