# holy baby shrimp, batman!



## richy (Nov 8, 2004)

i was observing my shrimp only tiger tank last nite and i was absolutely stunned to find a baby shrimp about 3-4mm in length. it was way too small for me to identify what type of shrimp it was as i had not seen any females with eggs or any males getting in the mood with the females. i've only had these shrimp a few weeks (of which none were pregnant), so it's darned near impossible that the parents are even in the same tank (only one baby, btw).

the only other reasonable explanation is that it is an amano. i had kept a pregnant female amano in the tank, which i had removed, just prior to adding the tigers. is it possible that an amano hatchling would've made it past the larval stage into the benthic stage in fw? only time will tell, i guess, since i cannot identify it using the nekid eye. will keep y'all posted.

exciting nonetheless! i was nearly floored when i saw it. unfortunately, i don't have a good camera with a macro lens to zoom in and take some snapshots. =(


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Congrats Richy on whatever it is! 

I'd still like to hear a story of an Amano baby making it in a non-brine tank. I could swear I have some little Amano's in my Amano/CR tank that don't look like the other CR kids, but maybe it's paler colored Cherry babies. :???:


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

I say it's always possible...although there are those who adamantly say it isn't. It's also possible that what you have isn't an Amano and is in fact another similar freshwater algae eating shrimp.


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

Congrats Rich. Do tell us what it turns out to be.


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

Exciting!!! Congratulations! Now, when you have tigers up to the ears, you know I'll do the neighborly thing and unburden you  . 

-Naomi


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

I also swear that I've had some Amano babys survive without adding salt. I've never seen small babies but I've have seen smaller semi-adult to adult shrimp that can not be the origanal Amano's I added to the tank.

So anything is possible... Congrats ;-)


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## richy (Nov 8, 2004)

thanx. i'm quite excited to have found it. now, when i go home after work, i spend hours staring at my shrimp tank looking for the baby. he's been mia for a full 24hrs now. i hope i didn't lose him.

rich


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## richy (Nov 8, 2004)

shalu said:


> Congrats Rich. Do tell us what it turns out to be.


It's amazing how tiny these buggers are. So it looks like it's a tiger. I was finally able to spot it this morning on my way to work. I looked at it very very closely and saw what looks like tiger stripes. The stripes not fully colored up yet, but it can't be mistaken for an amano in any way, shape, or form. My guess is that perhaps it was the lone remaining egg that either hatched on its way to me or after it was placed into the tank. Either way, no more mystery. So that answers that question.

In other news, I counted 15 pregnant tiger shrimp the other day. I think the first brood(s) is ready to hatch and will take place within the next few days. I've totally lost track of when the eggs got fertilized. I can barely imagine the waves of babies filling up my tank. This is so exciting!!

Do you think it wise to set up a grow out tank for the babies? They reside in a tiger shrimp only tank for the time being.


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

congrats, 15 pregnant ones? oh man, you are going to flood the tiger market.

I don't see any need to separate the babies. 

Two of my crystal reds are pregnant again. One is new, the other is on second batch. It seems the cycle time from batch to batch is approximately 45 days, 30 day pregnancy, 15 day rest. The bumble bee gave birth so I also have some bumble bee babies. They are born with some stripes too, but much fainter than the crystal reds.


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Great to hear about your tigers! If the tank is tiger only, I wouldn't see why they would need a grow out tank. They should be fine growing up with the adults...


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## richy (Nov 8, 2004)

shalu said:


> congrats, 15 pregnant ones? oh man, you are going to flood the tiger market.


Possibly. It seems like a lot, but they take so long to grow to a size where I would be comfortable parting with them. The lone survivor is still only about 7-8mm, too small IMO.



> I don't see any need to separate the babies.


yea, I don't either... The only reason I thought about doing this was to keep the original parents in one tank and to see how long it actually takes for them to "grow up". There is a very large genepool in there, though.

Plus, I'm not entirely sure how much of a bioload change will take place once all the eggs hatch. We're talking about at least 200 new animals metabolizing and contributing to the bioload.



> Two of my crystal reds are pregnant again. One is new, the other is on second batch. It seems the cycle time from batch to batch is approximately 45 days, 30 day pregnancy, 15 day rest. The bumble bee gave birth so I also have some bumble bee babies. They are born with some stripes too, but much fainter than the crystal reds.


Congrats on the new pregnancies. Pretty soon, you'll have your own CRS factory going.

Re: bumblebees, it good to hear that you were able to get a brood of them. Are these the ones you got from Ocean? 4/5 of the ones I got from OA didn't survive. I lost track of them in my tank, until I tore it all up to rescape... bummer!


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

richy said:


> Re: bumblebees, it good to hear that you were able to get a brood of them. Are these the ones you got from Ocean? 4/5 of the ones I got from OA didn't survive. I lost track of them in my tank, until I tore it all up to rescape... bummer!


sorry about your losses. Yes, I got 6 from Ocean. Three survived. I attributed deaths to possible CSM overdose. Haven't lost any shrimp after controlling trace dosing more carefully.

I think tigers/crystal reds/bumble bees have similar growth rates/cycles, being closly related species. The crystal red babies grow really slowly as well.


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## richy (Nov 8, 2004)

UPDATE: After deciding that the tank I'm keeping my tigers in has too many plants, I took some of the plants out and have discovered that none of the hatchlings from any of the parents survived. I have no tiger babies to show for my efforts. I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the water I'm keeping them in (I haven't done any parameter testing recently). Any thoughts?

Also, the baby tiger that I "discovered" on 4/26 in my original post doesn't seem to be growing or getting any bigger than the 7-8mm size. don't think their growth cycle takes that long does it?


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

Sorry to hear the baby tigers did not survive. I have no idea what might be wrong with your water.

My crystal reds hatched less than 2 months ago are growing nicely. Some are reaching 10mm.

Bumble bees seem to grow a little slower. Can I pass these(40 day olds) off as tigers 









Sounds like your tiger growng really slowly, or is it really a tiger, any stripes yet?

Now my female crystal reds are dropping the eggs a lot, which did not happen during the first round. I am guessing it is either due to the weather is too warm now, or the massive number of cherry reds creates too high a bioload.

Does your tank provide enough food? Do you feed additional food apart from algae on plants? I feed them goldfish pallets daily(man, the way the cherry reds swarm them is disgusting) and lengthened lighting period on the tank so more algae would grow.

What is your kh/gh? I would avoid the extremes.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Really - shrimp like GF pellets? I would have never thought to try that....


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

well, they like ANYTHING you throw in the tank, LOL. the GF pallets is just what I have on hand, and does not disintegrate quickly in water. They can pick at it for hours until it is all gone.


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## richy (Nov 8, 2004)

shalu said:


> My crystal reds hatched less than 2 months ago are growing nicely. Some are reaching 10mm.


glad to hear that at least one of us is having success. how long did it take for them to reach 10mm?



> Bumble bees seem to grow a little slower. Can I pass these(40 day olds) off as tigers


that's definitely not a tiger....



> Sounds like your tiger growng really slowly, or is it really a tiger, any stripes yet?


this one definitely is growing slower than expected. i've noticed though that the males are half the size of the mature females, so i'm guessing it's a male. it's definitely a tiger though. the stripes have not fully colored up, but the markings are present. i am wondering if it's a space constraint that would cause them to grow less slowly... or as you mentioned, maybe it's a bioload issue?



> Now my female crystal reds are dropping the eggs a lot, which did not happen during the first round. I am guessing it is either due to the weather is too warm now, or the massive number of cherry reds creates too high a bioload.


i hope you are able to figure out what's happening with your water conditions and that you are able to continue having success with the CRS.



> Does your tank provide enough food? Do you feed additional food apart from algae on plants? I feed them goldfish pallets daily(man, the way the cherry reds swarm them is disgusting) and lengthened lighting period on the tank so more algae would grow.


i definitely provide enough food for them to eat. aside from the java moss, i supplement with fish food and hikari crab pellets, which they gorge themselves on. the photoperiod is roughly 12hours.



> What is your kh/gh? I would avoid the extremes.


kh=4, gh=5 the last time i checked. this was a few months ago though. i will have to redo and find out if anything has changed. i do know that the eggs do manage to reach full term though. i saw a few new hatchlings swimming around yesterday. i hope i figure out what's wrong soon. i don't want the entire population to die out on me. =)


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## richy (Nov 8, 2004)

If anyone out there is keeping tiger shrimp, please share your water conditions with me. I think my tank conditions are less than ideal and may be *the* cause of death in my tiger shrimp only tank. A contributing factor may be the outbreak of hydra I had recently (where the hydra came from I don't know, since the tank has been the same since I set it up originally).

I am planning an entire rescape of the tank (low tech w/ DIY CO2), so plant suggestions are welcome. Thanks!


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

Hey, Rich!

If you want some ideas on low-tech plants, check out this thread:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=8071&page=1&pp=10. There are a LOT of other plants that can be added to this list if you're going with a bigger tank, but the ones discussed might be good for mid- or foreground in a 10-gallon.

So sorry to hear about what's been happening with the tiger shrimp. Keep trying! I've given up on them. It would have been okay with me if they would have stuck around a while, regardless of whether or not they bred. But the five I bought started dying off from about the second week I had them, and the last one croaked maybe three weeks after that. No fun, especially when I paid $30 for 'em.

Good luck with the new set-up and with the remaining tigers.

-Naomi


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

rich, are you saying you have some adults dying too? If not, maybe the hydra were capable of trapping and eating the babies?


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

richy said:


> If anyone out there is keeping tiger shrimp, please share your water conditions with me. I think my tank conditions are less than ideal and may be *the* cause of death in my tiger shrimp only tank. A contributing factor may be the outbreak of hydra I had recently (where the hydra came from I don't know, since the tank has been the same since I set it up originally).
> 
> I am planning an entire rescape of the tank (low tech w/ DIY CO2), so plant suggestions are welcome. Thanks!


I have one Tiger Shrimp for 1 year... PH 6.5, KH 3, 76 degrees, DIY C02.

Hydro could kill baby shrimp but not a an adult.

Low light plants... Java moss/fern, Anubias, Hornwort, Crypts.


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## richy (Nov 8, 2004)

shalu said:


> rich, are you saying you have some adults dying too? If not, maybe the hydra were capable of trapping and eating the babies?


some of the adults did die, but it was over time, but i suspect some may be due to old age and others due to water conditions. i know the hydra aren't capable of catching the adults, but they sure are capable of nabbing the babies.


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