# Need guidance on planted substrates



## TruKnight (Sep 12, 2009)

Hello all!

Im setting up a new 65g tank and I already know I want it planted medium-heavy. From what ive read, just gravel wont work very well for proper plant growth. Im thinking about using a coarse sand bottom layer mixed with plain peat and a top layer of the stuff from aquariumplants.com which I already have on hand. I read where sand goes to the bottom anyhow so I figured it put it there to start with. Alternatives to the sand that I have are aggregate rock, pea gravel and fine rock chippings. 

There isint a fish store here btw, unless you count walmart, so cant get anything from those. There is a home depot, but I dont know what I would need from there. Last time I went in for some terrarium dirt I couldnt find anything that didnt have additives and chemical ferts in it to use. 

Id love something in a giant bag I could get locally for little, but I just dont know what it would be called. Im not opposed to using a dirt layer, but again I just dont know what to get for it. I read the thread on making mineralized soil, but I have doubts that I could make it work as advertised.

If it matters, I dont plan to use a co2 system off the bat unless its the low cost yeast in the bottle one. I could dose the water column with ferts for an inert substrate, but id prefer not to do that too much.

So those are my ideas and options for my substrate, I just need some help from those that know better than I as to which are bad and which would be better. =)

-Tru


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Your plans will still have you dosing ferts. Peat will lower your pH and slowly help with nutrients but you will still have to dose for balanced ferts. The substrate from Aquariumplants.com is inert as I understand it. I also have read that it is very light and hard to plant in. 

Have you thought about ADA AquaSoil? It's the best. It will cost you more in the beginning but your plants will grow so fast and you won't have to do a lot of dosing unless you have high light.

If you want to go cheap try mineralized topsoil.


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## cah925 (Jun 23, 2007)

Another option is Ferka Aquabase. I just rescaped a tank of mine using the Ferka as a base and putting fine sand on top of it. I just put it together a week ago so I can't comment on the effectiveness yet, but I have heard good things about it.


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## Knotty Bitz (Mar 11, 2009)

I have used mineralized soil as a base of nutrients for my tank. It is easy to make and all you need is potting soil and clay. Just search "mineralized soil" on this website. There, there are step by step instructions on how to make it.


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## TruKnight (Sep 12, 2009)

Well, I slept on it and did alot more reading and searching on here and ive decided to go with the following:

>bottom layer: 1in pea gravel mixed with established aquarium gravel and sprinkled with charcoal
>middle layer: 1.5in sifted potting soil
>top layer: 2in of the fired clay substrate I already have on hand to cap the dirt in

How does that sound to yall? From what ive read, there seems to be disagreement about how much the soil should be mineralised, from none to lots. None seems good for co2 production, but could lead to massive algae outbreaks? Im also concerned about discolored water, but im hoping the top layer will keep a lid on that? 

I looked at all the other suggested substrates, but since they do essentially the same job as dirt and since I would need tons of it, this is the most econimical option for me to go with. But I have some questions as to how much the soil should be prepared. Clearly I have to sift it to get out all the chunks, but what comes after? Washing and drying several times seems to be what the posts indicate, but how necessary is this? Wouldnt that be washing away too much of the good stuff?

Also, is there a specific name of dirt in a bag I could be looking for that is the most optimal for my needs? I know to steer clear of anything with additives, but theres at least a dozen varietys of dirt, not all of it plain.

I much appreciate all the help so far! =)

-Tru


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Pea gravel on the bottom has a way of finding its way to the top quite frequently. If you're doing fired clay/akadama, you may want to just experiment with nutrient loading that in a slurry first, just to make poor mans ADA AS. It's been done before with success, and if you can get it to work, it will eliminate the need for a multi-layered approach.

Oh, and I thought this might help on your quest for MS if you want to go that way:
http://www.barrreport.com/co2-aquatic-plant-fertilization/5633-earth-worm-casting-nutrient-enriched-sediments-how.html

-Philosophos


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## armedbiggiet (May 6, 2006)

Since you are new on these, I would suggest ADA Aquasoil it is good to spend the money up front and have less trouble later. I am sure you at some point you want to redesign or replanting you plants but if you do the mineralized soil you can't really move things around which would cause algae problems. Using Aquasoil along allow you to "play" with it, to explore.


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## TruKnight (Sep 12, 2009)

Thanks for all the help, much appreciated! 

I decided to go with an inert fired-clay based substrate with a longer lifespan than aquasoil. I needed alot of it and really couldnt spend that much so went with the economy option and got some flourish root tabs for the top layer and a handfull of moss and carbon for the bottom layer for initial bacteria growth and some flourish excel that ill dose as needed till the substrate gets fertilized by fishie wastes to a good extent. Havent gotten it yet but im gonna get some sort of mesh to separate the two layers also. Not gonna fiddle with co2 I think, I just needed something sufficient to keep my plants alive and growing slowly, not bursting out of the tank with shoots hehe. =)

-Tru


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Well, the simple truth is there is AquaSoil and there is everything else.

Both "kinds" will grow plants well if you know what to expect. AquaSoil helps you from day 1. All other substrates need to become slightly acidic to help the roots. That happens in the course of 4-8 weeks. After that you can very much grow anything you like in your cheap inert substrate. Certain picky plants may still prefer AquaSoil but overall it's a choice between one of a kind top of the line substrate and willing to wait for a cheap substrate to become acidic.

You can help the inert substrate from day 1 by adding peat under it. The peat looses it's qualities in about 3-4 weeks. It will not pollute the water and lead to algae if it finds its way in the water (during plant uprooting). Also when setting up a tank it's a good idea to sprinkle the bottom part of it with the "dirty" water from an established tank's filter sponge. This of course provides bacteria and other "start up" organisms. There could be a discussin what exact kinds of organisms the filter sponge adds to the substrate and do they belong there or not. But the bottom line is - adding filter sponge "mulm" could only help, if nothing else with providing some ammonia as a startup.

--Nikolay


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## armedbiggiet (May 6, 2006)

I agreet with Niko here, we are not all about ADA. But what we been through can sure you what ever you want to do might end up spending the same with using AS.


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## armedbiggiet (May 6, 2006)

TruKnight said:


> Thanks for all the help, much appreciated!
> 
> I decided to go with an inert fired-clay based substrate with a longer lifespan than aquasoil. I needed alot of it and really couldnt spend that much so went with the economy option and got some flourish root tabs for the top layer and a handfull of moss and carbon for the bottom layer for initial bacteria growth and some flourish excel that ill dose as needed till the substrate gets fertilized by fishie wastes to a good extent. Havent gotten it yet but im gonna get some sort of mesh to separate the two layers also. Not gonna fiddle with co2 I think, I just needed something sufficient to keep my plants alive and growing slowly, not bursting out of the tank with shoots hehe. =)
> 
> -Tru


Fishies wast build up and break down enough for the plants to take in... that is a very veyr long time for a newly setup tank. And why you want to do moss in between layers? unless you decided not to replanting and play around with it.


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