# Hair Algae with EI



## Tihsho (Nov 4, 2015)

This is my first attempt with EI and I'm testing it in my grow out tank that has dual T5's and injected CO2. I'm having a bad problem with hair algae and can't nail the reason why. 

Specs and dosing are as follows:

Tank - 2.5 Gallon (standard AGA)
Lighting - Dual T5's (not oriented lengthwise but width wise because it's spanning 3 tanks)
Plant substrate - Fluval Stratum (in pots)
Circulation/Filtration - Eheim Surface Skimmer
Temp - 73-78 (light flux)
Water change schedule - water changed 60% once a week
CO2 - 1 bubble per second injected (non DIY)
EI - Dosing dry daily alternating the following

Macros
KNO3 - .1g
KH2PO4 - .12g
K2SO4 - .05g

Micros
Plantex CSM - .06g

All are from GLA

Chemistry is as follows (of today)

pH - 5.5
Nitrate - 0 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Ammonia - 0ppm
TDS - 105ppm


I also went through and tested dose solutions of my ferts for ammonia to see if one had been contaminated and got 0 ppm per dose.

Thoughts on what I can do to control the algae? I'd love to get something in there to assist in eating it, but with the large weekly water changes, bare bottom and a pump there for only circulation I don't believe there is enough BB to keep up with something. I was thinking maybe a baby BNP to assist with glass cleanup, but figure I'll need to find it a home and replace it in a few months, but it won't help with algae on Rotala. Would Amano's be ok for this? Would they tolerate the large water changes?


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Well, I wrote you a long post explaining why you have the issues that you have. But you are better off figuring things for yourself:

Try to find information on how the Asians (not just Japanese) run their tanks. Find information on "El Natural" way of running a planted tank. Compare these two with each other. Compare that to whatever you are doing. See if you notice fundamental problems. Try to figure out why US aquascaping is nowhere while the rest of the world, not just Asians, rock away. Follow whoever makes the most sense to you.

Good luck.


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## Tihsho (Nov 4, 2015)

Um, not to be rude *niko*, but I posted this up because I've been having this problem and I can't exactly pin point it. Some threads I've found are claiming that some ferts that are being used for EI are tainted with ammonia or nitrates which I've tested for and can't find. My logic would be lighting, and I'm going to test that next, but wanted to reach out.


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## Tihsho (Nov 4, 2015)

niko - per searching your posts it seems you're a big proponent of "root based" feeding methods as well as water changes fix everything. I agree that those methods work and chemicals are not a solution, I'm more so just trying something new and well it's not working as planned. I'm following a regiment that was posted by Barr on the BarrReport I read a while back and the plants just boom. I think the issue is that I'm over dosing based on the ratio of plants per water and that the left over ferts are just laying stagnant and building up over the week. Can a solution to this really just be as simple as adding more plants?


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## jrIL (Apr 23, 2005)

You posted that nitrates are at zero. If your following ei they should never be zero. Seems to me you have a limiting problem, not enough ferts. You also need to measure your co2 level somewhere to at least get a rough idea of where your at.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Tihsho (Nov 4, 2015)

Thanks *jrIL*. I'm going to retest them in a bit as I've just gone through and dosed my Micros for the day and the water has now been in the tank with a Macro dose (yesterday) and a Micro dose (today.) I also have a drop checker which I setup last night and failed to setup which I'll get up and running tonight with GLA's solution. I'll edit this post with an update on params.

pH - 7.0 (buffered last night because I figured 5.0 was too low with CO2)
Nitrates - 0 ppm

This is obviously an issue with my EI dosing regiment if I'm suppose to have Nitrates. Is there another calculator I should look at for mass of fert in respect to volume? If there are 0 Nitrates (mind you I still need to test at the end of the week which I forgot to do) how are the plants booming in growth then competing with algae for nutrients?


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Please don't get confused reading my posts. I do not plop ready-to-use advice unless it is very basic. Instead I like to think that people like to think for themselves. See if you do;

If you do some more research you will see that many people have tried to solve the problems you are having. And not ever getting any clear solutions.

If you do even more research you will find that very few people say negative things about EI. Because it works so well. It is described very well and many people follow it with great success. You are about to be one of them hopefully.

If you go further and do more research you will hear that the Asians, which both dominate this hobby and have turned it into a copy-cat commercial spectacle, use methods that are worth knowing about. Which you will not find described clearly on English speaking forums. 

Consider 1+2+3 together and see if any of it makes any sense. Or you can find someone in a chat room that may shed light on this and that.

Ah yes... What test kits do you use?


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## Tihsho (Nov 4, 2015)

Sure thing *niko*.

Per some brief reading from last night to tonight I can see differences on takes of multiple approaches, but none lead to the issue I'm having with hair algae. It seems with EI posts and algae it is generic spot algae and the posts with hair algae seem to just clear up with regular large water changes rather than dosing changes. As for the 'Asian' aspect you mentioned, I will refer to it as a "followers approach" as it seems less racially biased, they tend to dose ferts (not exactly EI in the ADA process) beneath the substrate in the case of Macros and dose mainly liquid micros. Post the soil losing it's nutritional value for plants I've noticed other additives on that take for Macros.

Although the reading is neat, it still has not lead to any information that I find pertinent to the subject at hand as it's all over the place since it's on the internet. If your push to learn this information is for self gratification, it's more so got me more lost because I'm finding that there is no real answer to the question I have with my approach.

As for the test kits, they are simple AP test kits. This one is about a year and change old, and I have a new one with unopened test solutions that I purchased a few months back.

I checked the params a couple hours post my last response to find the following:

1 - CO2 Drop checker - Light green
2 - Nitrate = 0 PPM (this is concerning to me via EI)
3 - Nitrite = 0 PPM
4 - Ammonia = 0 PPM
5 - pH = 6.8/7.0


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## mathman (Feb 12, 2014)

Niko, stop it with the attitude.

Tihsho, like mentioned before, you are simply not adding enough nutrients to your tank. 
Use the following calculator:

http://www.zorfox.com/plantedtank/

Hope this helps. Also, you could reduce the light period and/or the light intensity.


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## Tihsho (Nov 4, 2015)

Thanks mathman! I'm going to do some number crunching tonight. I caved due to a LFS having a sale and picked up some Ottos to help with GSA that's appearing. Now that is growing on the base of the bare bottom tank the hair algae seems to have cut back.


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## Tihsho (Nov 4, 2015)

In order to up my ferts I started fresh today with a new 'recipe' that's moving me from dry dosing to a solution. I'll see how it goes. I've also bumped up the CO2 a little bit.


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## mathman (Feb 12, 2014)

That's good. The link I provided is for Zorfox's calculator. He is a great guy and always willing to answer any questions you may have with the software. It is for Windows and I have no issues running it on my computer. Also, if you encounter any problems maybe try running it as an administrator. Lastly, increase your co2 slowly on a daily basis. Eventually you'll notice that your some of your fish may be gasping for air, at this time you know that you are adding a tad too much. So lower it just a bit. 
Do changes when you know you can monitor the tank for fish behavior.


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## Tihsho (Nov 4, 2015)

I PM'd him on my issue with the software and it looks like it botched during a download I got a while back. After shutting down my A/V it worked just fine. 

I've used CO2 for a bit and get the regulation, it's mainly the adjustments in EI that are getting my head spinning.


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## mathman (Feb 12, 2014)

Keep working on it buddy and don't give up. Keep us update.


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## Yo-han (Oct 15, 2010)

0 nitrate with EI is impossible. You either bought/received the wrong chemical (not KNO3) or your testkit is broken. (Or third but probable abundant option, you got something that removes nitrate in your filter). With EI, you NO3 should always be skyhigh. And the problem with people asking advice about EI, is that the cause is always CO2 (according to most). But plant growth isn't just adding enough ferts. The proper light spectrum, enough flow, enough biomass of plants, good degassing at night, a large enough filter etc. etc. But with this method, CO2 is indeed very very important.

What Niko is saying is that it isn't adviceable to start driving a F1 car when you never drove another car. EI is build to grow plants... FAST! But this also means that if one thing goes wrong, algae grows even faster. Not really recommended for beginners in my and Niko's opinion. After you mastered light and CO2 and filtration etc. EI is a wonderful method to grow a lot of plants in a short time. Till then, an easier method is probable better suited for you


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## Tihsho (Nov 4, 2015)

*Yo-han*, thanks for the input! I've been in planted tanks for years, I'm just getting back into them after being out of the hobby for a bit. I've used CO2 for a while now, but when it came to ferts it was just off the shelf stuff that LFS's and online retailers carried; be it Seachem or Brightwell Aquatics stuff.

I'm thinking my KNO3 is botched because I tested the KNO3 previously in solution with a test kit. That said, I have an unopened test kit that is fairly new I'll compare results with this weekend to rule out the test kit.

I believe the issue I was having is mainly with light duration which I'll have to get another timer for to pull it off my current timed system. I'm running it off a timer strip which is set to dump light in for a long period for emersed growth, which this is the only setup which isn't emersed.

Per *mathman* and other users comments of "I'm not adding enough ferts" I recalculated what I was suppose to be doing and my values were wayyy too low. I was basing my info prior off of a chart I found online, I think NilocG's site. Now I'm using Zorfox's calculator and creating 75ml solutions with 5ml daily doses of each (alternating from micro's and macros each day.) Changing this up I've seen a significant reduction of hair algae, but now my issue is with green water. I'm less concerned about this, but will be working on fixing this soon.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Another, non chemical approach to hair algae control is the American flag fish. I've used them and I'm very happy with the result. The males are quite pretty.

There is a YouTube video showing them in action.

Bill


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