# common foreground plant?



## davemonkey

I got this in a beginner pack of plants a few months ago, but I still don't know what it is. I was thinking one of the crypts, but I'm just not sure.
It has been VERY SLOW growing and really didn't do much until I started with excel and DIY CO2.



















Sorry I couldn't provide better info than that.

-Dave


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## jmontee

Looks like it could be crypt parva. As a ground cover you might want to replant after teasing apart som of the small plantlets that it is made up of. It does grow very slowly and stays very small. It looks really cool BTW.


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## davemonkey

Thanks. 
I just looked Crypt. parva up on the plant finder. It says aside from being SLOOOOOWWWWW, "The addition of ample carbon dioxide and root fertilization benefits growth considerably." That makes sense since it didn't grow hardly at all until I put in the root tabs and started the CO2.

I'm excited that it will stay small. I think I'll try to 'carpet' with it. All I need is patience!


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## Bert H

> All I need is patience!


 LOTS of it with parva. Good luck!


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## AaronT

It's not Crypt parva. Crypt parva is green in color. It's probably willisii x lucens or willisii.


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## V.PooH

Doesn't look like c.parva, parva has other shape of bush. You can try to dig 1" from roots half of PondCare Aquatic Plant Food Tablet, it's give good kick for crypt growing( I was try it, and use it now)


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## davemonkey

I guess the leaves have the lanceolate shape of 'lucens'. Whatever it is, it's slow and is looking like a promising ground cover for me. It's been putting on more new leaves now and all the new ones are the reddish tint and turn more green as they age. And for some reason it is continuing to stay very low/flat.

I think in the next couple days I'm going to tease the plants apart (I have 4 of these) and then use the root tabs to see what happens as far as filling in the foreground.

Who knows, maybe it's a new variety or cultivar of the willisii x lucens. I'll name it _Crypt. willisii x lucens var. davemonkey_.


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## hoppycalif

I can see it now.....Davemonkey's FS.... in the for sale forum.


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## davemonkey

hoppycalif said:


> I can see it now.....Davemonkey's FS.... in the for sale forum.


Yes! I knew this hobby would make me rich!  There'll be a _davemonkey_ in every aquarium. People will come from far and wide to experience the true beauty of a _davemonkey_.

(Of coarse, supporting members would be entitled to a freebie.) :mrgreen:


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## davemonkey

I separated the four of these had into 20 plantlets and took some shots with root structure. The more I read, the less I think it's _C. x willisii 'lucens'_. Maybe just _C. willisii_.

I'll let these grow out for a month or two and see what they do.


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## Ghazanfar Ghori

C. willissi x lucens 'bronze'


It spreads fast once established...


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## davemonkey

Ghazanfar Ghori said:


> C. willissi x lucens 'bronze'
> 
> It spreads fast once established...


Thanks! I guess I'll have to let them get re-established now that I've split them all apart and re-planted.


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## Robert Hudson

> C. willissi x lucens 'bronze'


Is this a cultivated variety Ghazanfar? I can not find a cultivated variety by that name anywhere. Not from Florida or Oriental aquarium. Is that a color morph that is recognized?

The only way to identify a cryp for sure is by the spathe. The shape of the leaf can vary greatly with so many cryps. I have some wendtii with that identical leaf shape because of how it was grown.

Where did you get the plant from Dave? Can your source help?


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## davemonkey

Robert Hudson said:


> Where did you get the plant from Dave? Can your source help?


I feel like a goober. I never thought to ask them. I got it from aquariumgarden.com back when I first put plants in the tank (about 3 or 4 months ago).

I'll shoot them a message to see if they can tell me where they got it or what it is. It's been that size for almost 4 months, but that includes all the wrong lights, algae battles, and getting things established that I went through until I got things under control.

I'll let you know what they say.


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## davemonkey

Aaron T, V.PooH, and Ghazanfar nailed it. I email Vic from 'aqauriumgarden' and he said this:

"Dear David, Thank you for your interest in our products and your order with us. The plant in question is indeed cryptocoryne willisii x lucens as has been suggested by several participants of the discussion  
http://www.aquariumgarden.com/store/cart.php?target=product&product_id=9255&category_id=1420

This cryptocoryne is indeed very hardy and is an excellent ground cover plant. Please let us know if you have more questions, we'll be happy to help. Sincerely Yours,Vic.AquariumGarden.com "

Oh well, there goes my patent on the 'davemonkey' variety.


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## Robert Hudson

But he does not sell a lucens "bronze" on his WEB site, right? So evidently it is just a standard every day lucens that morphed to this bronze red color... right? To my knowledge he sells standard nursery stock, and there is no standard nursery stock plant called "lucens bronze". There is a wendtii bronze, but no lucens bronze. I am saying this without looking at his WEB site, so I could be wrong!

OK, I looked at his WEB site, and the link, and there is no lucens BRONZE listed there!!!!


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## davemonkey

Right, Robert. His web-site listing for it just says "lucens" (no mention of 'bronze'). And all of the listings at aquariumgraden are common nursery stock that you might find at most nurseries. Another thing that TexGal pointed out is that they are supposed to grow 'up' and mine are hugging the ground.

When I got them, there was no bronze; so either they morphed, or it's and effect of my lighting (that 50/50 actinic and 10000K), or he got a morph without knowing it and shipped them to me before they put on that color. 

I plan on growing them another month to see what happens (since I recently uprooted and replanted), and if they are still the same, I'll see if a change of lighting does anything (I'm getting some 6700K/10000K in July).


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## Robert Hudson

Well if you keep them that color, then you will have something unique that you can share with people here! Send me some!


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## jazzlvr123

yeah i don't know why yours is hugging the carpet like that mine always used to grow vertically, and fast. then again my tank was high light/ high CO2. i very much prefer your growth pattern over its usual one. let us know if you can get a carpet going that would be really cool to see


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## davemonkey

jazzlvr123 said:


> yeah i don't know why yours is hugging the carpet like that mine always used to grow vertically, and fast. then again my tank was high light/ high CO2. i very much prefer your growth pattern over its usual one. let us know if you can get a carpet going that would be really cool to see


I'll keep you posted. So far, still the bronze color. New leaves are just a bit higher, but arch slightly downward, but it's still only been a few days since the re-plant. I'll post updated pics when I notice a significant change, or in two weeks...whichever comes first.

-Dave


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## Tex Gal

This is gonna be interesting.......


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## davemonkey

Almost two weeks since last post and nothing new. Plants have one or two new leaves, but growth is still the same...SLOOOWWWWW! I've added root tab pieces under them to see if that helps. I did some sluething and found this thread posted by a fella named Jared:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/cryptocorynes/45165-dwarf-crypt-id-help-please.html

I'm wondering if that's the same plant I've got. I sent him a PM asking what ever became of it, but his last post on this site was November of '07, so I don't expect to hear back from him. I also sent a Plant ID request to the Sri Lanka Department of Agriculture, but I doubt they will take this kind of thing seriously...but who knows. 

Anyway, it seems too slow growing to be a lucens (...like I would really know  ). A couple more weeks and we'll see what happens. If there isn't much growth by then, I'll be looking for a different foreground (maybe some Marsilea).

-Dave


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## Tex Gal

Well marsilea would certainly be a different look. It forms a carpet like glosso (but you probably already know that). One thing is for sure you know it's a crypt so it will grow slow. Sounds to me like you'll be bunching it back together in little stands and sticking it in a display area of your foreground - (taking out watch and swinging it before you face... ) You must be p-a-t-i-e-n-t!


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## davemonkey

Update:
Well. I was gone the past two long weekends (4 days and 3 days) and my tank got to rest without me pestering it. I had dosed two days' worth liquid ferts and then let the plants fend for themselves against the algae. :fencing: Surprisingly, the only thing I noticed (over the usual) was some film aglae on the front glass.

*On to the main point*, my little crypts have begun growing more upright. The leaves are still the same color (bronze-ish) and are still small, but they are no longer growing flat along the substrate. And the root-tabs are doing a good job. These little guys are really taking off! I'm excited to see them growing.

Sorry I don't have pics, my wife's purse got lost (long story) and the camera was in it. (Any prayers for it's return are greatly appreciated!! ) ray:

Once we get another camera, or our old one is found and returned, I'll post new pics.

-Dave


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## Tex Gal

Many times your insurance for your house or renters policy will have a mysterious disappearance clause in it. It's for when you loose things. Check with them and see if the contents of your wife's purse will be covered. Did she have a phone in it? Maybe she could call it and someone might answer. My purse was stolen and what a pain that was!

Glad to hear about your crypts. Hope to see them soon.


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## davemonkey

I never found my camera, but I borrowed the one we have at the office (your tax dollars at work hoto: ).

Anyway, here are updated pics of what has been id'd (for now) as _Crypt. willisii x lucens 'bronze' _. The change isn't much, but they have begun growing more upright now, but are still very small plants. Some of the color-quality of the photos isn't great, but you'll get the idea.


































Reference shot to show the size compared to other plants...









There you go.

-Dave


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## Tex Gal

They are looking great. I think they are on their way! Congrats!


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## ingg

The I.D. is correct, btw.  Definitely lucensxwillissii. I had some of the bronze once upon a time, pretty plant!


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## davemonkey

ingg said:


> The I.D. is correct, btw.  Definitely lucensxwillissii. I had some of the bronze once upon a time, pretty plant!


Thanks for the second (or third) confirmation on the ID. So, are these supposed to be rare, or are they pretty common? The only reason I ask is because quite a few people had never seen these before.


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## Tex Gal

I just ordered some from AquaMagic for $4.99 We'll see what I get. It was under the old name Crypt nevillii. I do have one in my tank. It stays small maybe 1"=1.5" high.


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## davemonkey

Tex Gal said:


> I just ordered some from AquaMagic for $4.99 We'll see what I get. It was under the old name Crypt nevillii. I do have one in my tank. It stays small maybe 1"=1.5" high.


Please post pics when you get it in!

Yep, I can't see mine getting much bigger, just hopefully they'll begin spreading soon. I have two small areas that I'd like to pull out about 6 of these guys and replace them with some E. tenellus just to get more green in my tank. Right now it's a little too much in the 'red-scheme' for my taste.

My only problem with that is I'm not 100% sure I've got the light requirement for E.tenellus (2.2 WPG, but I constantly have to trim my Vallisneria to water level to keep it from shading everything out).

Anyway, I'm very pleased with the _C. willisii x lucens 'bronze' _(aka _'Davemoney_'...heeheehee). They've been trouble-free, look good, and don't out-grow anything.


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## ingg

davemonkey said:


> Thanks for the second (or third) confirmation on the ID. So, are these supposed to be rare, or are they pretty common? The only reason I ask is because quite a few people had never seen these before.


I am not the best person to ask, honestly. GhazanfarGhori might have a good idea - pretty sure he was where I got it originally.

See, I've been in GWAPA for two years.

During our club auctions, you hear "Be the tenth, twentieth, XXX number person in the country with this plant!" a good bit. For the first year, I thought it was some kind of inside joke. Then, as I learned more about plants, I figured out they were quite serious.  Joke was on me!

So while I see some plants often, they are not common.... hence, I've seen it in tanks in the club, had it myself for a while before auctioning it back off, but have no idea hobby-wise how common or uncommon it is.


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## davemonkey

GhazanfarGhori gave me the first I.D. on them. He really knows his crypts!

Well, somehow I ended up with them (from aquariumgarden.com, sold as 'lucens') and they have been my favorite plant ever since because of their small size and good color. I did wind up trading a few out with someone on this board for some more 'green' in my tank. Between the two of us, maybe we'll be able to grow enough to really start sharing these with people who want it but can't find it.

Thanks for all the info, Ingg.

-Dave


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## Splash55

The plantlets that you are getting looks extactly the plantlets that my cryptocroyne is sending out from the roots.


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## davemonkey

Splash55 said:


> The plantlets that you are getting looks extactly the plantlets that my cryptocroyne is sending out from the roots.


I also have several plantlets that look the same way from my _C. wendtii _'s . But, they start looking more like their parent plants after a couple weeks or so. These little 'bronze' guys haven't changed at all in appearance in 5 months except for getting more leaves.


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## AaronT

Here is a picture of the Crypts that I purchased as _C. nevilii_. The variety that I have seems to have a lot less bronze than yours. According to the Crypts Pages there are thought to be two naturally occurring hybrids that are known as _Cryptocoryne x willisii._ One is the lucens variety such as davemonkey's and the other is thought to be part _C. parva._ I think the one I have may be the latter.


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## davemonkey

AaronT said:


> Here is a picture of the Crypts that I purchased as _C. nevilii_. The variety that I have seems to have a lot less bronze than yours. According to the Crypts Pages there are thought to be two naturally occurring hybrids that are known as _Cryptocoryne x willisii._ One is the lucens variety such as davemonkey's and the other is thought to be part _C. parva._ I think the one I have may be the latter.


So, does yours grow extremely slow like C.parva? Mine did at first, but once the roots took hold (and I started using root tabs to supplement) they have been growing almost at the same rate as my other crypts (wendtii).


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## Tex Gal

Dave - I just got the C nevlii from Aquatic Magic. They are growing green like Aaron's. From my research on the web C. Nevlii is supposed to be the old name for C. x willisii bronze. Obviously there are at least 2 color variants. Certainly they must be different plants because yours are staying bronze for me. I'm very excited to see how well they grow. Thanks SOOO MUCH for sharing.... Pass it forward..... yeah!


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## AaronT

Tex Gal said:


> Dave - I just got the C nevlii from Aquatic Magic. They are growing green like Aaron's. From my research on the web C. Nevlii is supposed to be the old name for C. x willisii bronze. Obviously they are at least 2 color variants. Certainly them must be different plants because yours are staying bronze for me. I'm very excited to see how well they grow. Thanks SOOO MUCH for sharing.... Pass it forward..... yeah!


That's the same one that I have. Mine did take a long time to get established and then they flourished just like any other Crypt.


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## davemonkey

Glad to hear that TexGal! It'll be fun to see how they compare in a few weeks (or months) as far as growth rate, height, spread, color, etc...

Keep us posted since you've got both varieties in the same type of conditions. 

-Dave


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