# A freshwater protein skimmer



## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Not everybody knows that it is not N and P and the rest of the fert bunch that are the most important factors in an aquarium. That misunderstanding has been the plague of our hobby for a decade now. Virtually all issues of the planted tank are seen as problems with under or overuse of fertilizers. That is simplistic, nicely put. Water flow pattern, filtration, slow establishment of the system and some other important factors are not discussed very often.

One of the truly important factors is the removal of waste. In planted tanks people employ vacuums and other laughable devices. In saltwater tanks a protein skimmer is a standard piece of equipment. In the planted tank hobby we just recently started to pay more attention to "organics" removal. An only here on APC mind you. There are freshwater protein skimmers and that is not something everybody knows. But they are huge in size and use lots of air - by far not the best things for a planted tank.

One way that flocculation (that is what a protein skimmer does - put the microscopic pieces of "waste" in contact with bubbles of air resulting in the waste sticking to the bubbles and to each other and forming clumps which are easily removed) is used in planted tanks is what ADA does with their outflow pipe and the CO2 diffuser. Note that usually they are placed opposite to each other. The idea is that the raising CO2 bubbles will meet a stream of water coming at them from above. You get both better solubilization of the CO2 AND flocculation! Of course the flocculation is minor - you are not going to see clumps of dirt magically appear in mid-water and be sucked by the filter. What is important to note here is the simple and elegant idea of having at least some flocculation happening in a freshwater planted tank. No US planted tank guru in the last decade has discussed anything even close to that. Way to go.

But there is something else you can do to increase the flocculation in a planted tank. ADA does not make use of that second way because they have to sell the cool looking Lily pipe and this second way to provide flocculation requires an overflow. This is the moment to note that Amano himself has openly said that there is nothing better than a sump filter so don't get uneasy about using the words "sump" and "planted tank" in one sentence. Either way - in light of recent events we now care little what Amano says. So here is an explanation of how the overflow flocculation works:

The common overflow box has a "comb" that prevents large pieces of trash or at least some animals to enter the overflow and the filter. This "comb" is not the best way to skim the water surface. The "teeth" of the comb prevent the water from moving smoothly. Why is that smooth movement important? Because if the surface of the water is being sucked in in a smooth way then it is mainly the SURFACE itself that is being sucked in. Why is that important now? Because trash sticks to the surface phase. Basically we all have flocculation (protein skimming) going on 24/7 in your tank but we don't do anything about helping that natural process and actually remove the clumped up dirt. We are too busy focusing on fertilizers and how they will make all our dreams come true.

Now, as usual, the good information is taken from the saltwater folk. The best overflow box design is one in which the box spans the entire length of the tank AND it is flat. That is known as "Calfo" overflow box, named after a well-known guy named Anthony Calfo. The water is being skimmed off the entire tank surface AND in the right way with maximum removal of invisible trash clinging to the surface. Sumps and overflows are notorious for being noisy but just a few years ago two guys ("Herbie" and "BeanAnimal") came up with a completely silent and safe overflow design. All the information above was taken from BeanAnimal's webpage where he describes the overflow. Read it please, it is not the usual fluff the internet is full of:

http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx


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## Tugg (Jul 28, 2013)

I've also seen it called a coast-to-coast overflow since it spans from the left to the right. Also, aren't they called foam fractionators for freshwater? The DIY one I looked at was for a pond. The general idea was to have a VERY tall wet/dry with a shallow reservoir at the bottom. The foam built up by the water crashing down the pipe would build up on top of the reservoir and overflow out a drain. The settled foam looked like brown tar once the bubbles all popped.

This same topic also had me looking into UV sterilizers. While they can't remove the DOC by themselves, they can greatly help the bio-filter and plants in handling it. The idea is that the UV breaks down the long chains into smaller peices that can be more easily managed by the autotrophic bacteria and plants. It made sense when I read it. Ponds and natural water systems have exposure to UV light all day. Our aquariums are "protected" from the UV since they're indoors. I already plan on adding one in the near future.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Yes, the water running over stones in natural creeks is apparently the inspiration for the freshwater fractionator. But in Nature you can have a huge size filter while in the planted tank hobby we are (I hope) just starting to talk about filtration in general. Got to start from somewhere though.

The UV sterilizers: About 10 years ago one of the best US aquascapers told me that he uses UV to make the water extra clear. It will break long molecules I guess, or at least loosen them up. Long story short, I've said that before - the water in his tanks is absolutely invisible. CO2 bubbles looked like going up in air. Of course that extreme clarity is not just because of the UV. I believe that biofiltration can do what all other filtration can't, UV included. But it is important to have understanding about all the pieces of the puzzle and that's why I started this topic. Thank you for talking about UV.

How clean did your 55 gal. tank with a 55 gallon sump stay? Did you have any issues with it and why?


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## TAB (Feb 7, 2009)

Beananimal, didn't invent anything, he just took what other peopld had done and combined 2 ideas. It was done before him in many industrail systems, he was just the 1st person to write about it for the hobby. I have nothing against him and praise him for his work. that being said the 3rd pipe, is an extra fail safe, its not needed persay, but given most reef hobbyists( was one for 15+ years) habbits of lazyness( yes lazyness) and over kill. It explains a lot. the reef hooby runs on about a 7-10 year cycle of whats old is new again. I remember when ATS were the hot thing in the mid 90s( my dad had a system up for 22 years with an ats until a move), then again in the mid 2000s and guess what, they are the "hot new, must have" now. Salt water is king in the us and there is a wealth on knowledge out there and thousands of people experimenting. Which is why reefing has exploded in knowledge base.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

About BeanAnimal's overflow: I thought so! People just love to present old things as new. But I liked the guy's write up. What puzzled me is that I found a lot of posts saying how the "classic" style overflows were not good, causing floods etc. Geez, so they don't work but have been around for ages. But the overflows relying on a vacuum pump (like CPR) certainly look like a very bad idea. 

I looked at BeanAnimal's design only because I read many posts about it being completely silent. About 10 years ago I came up with an improvement of the Durso overflow that actually allowed it to be extremely quiet but not completely silent. I even wrote the Durso guy and he responded with a disinterested one liner e-mail. I should have stopped considering him an authority right then and there and maybe I'd have "invented" a true silent overflow too... 

Anyway - a silent overflow really interests me but Tab, please tell me why you believe that the 3-rd pipe is not needed. I am about to convert the filtration of my 180 gallon tank to a sump and I have only 2 holes drilled. I do not want to drill a 3-rd one but everywhere I looked folk say the 3-rd pipe actually comes momentarily into play when the syphons re-start after a power failure. Why do you think that 3-rd pipe is not needed? I'd love to hear that I can get away without it.

About experimenting with aquariums: That is exactly why I write all these posts about things we never discuss. That's exactly why I juxtapose the fascinations with fertilizers and LEDs with things from the past (filtration is a thing of the past allright...). So how do you feel - how many people in the planted tank hobby actually push the envelope? I think it is just a few and that puzzles me. It could be a question of numbers of hobbyists but it also maybe a question of the kind of folk that get into saltwater or freshwater. Freshwater strikes me as "cheap" overall and no one but a few commercial outfits (ADG, ADA) make efforts to change that perception.


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## TAB (Feb 7, 2009)

all you really need is a throttled stand pipe to make a silent overflow. The 2nd pipe can be standard or somethint else slient.( i recomend it make noise to let you know the 1st one is cloged) we did this 15+ years ago when i worked for a custom tank manufactory. Its how we did all the installs. i also don't care for ball valves, i prefer gate valves, either to adjust.(finer control)


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## Tugg (Jul 28, 2013)

I haven't gotten the UV yet. Right now I'm still dealing with DOC issues (BBA). At least this stuff has gone away:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/89701-purple-algea-freshwater.html

As for the herbie-beananimal and the third pipe. It depends on pipe diameter. The first is the throttled pipe. It's going to be the full syphon that you dial down to match just under your pump. Some people struggle to try and match the pump perfectly, and that's just stupid. There are too many factors that can affect the flow. You'll be adjusting everyday.

The second pipe is the trickle pipe. It takes the very little bit of flow that's left. Here's the key, if this pipe can handle the entire pump by itself, then no, you won't need a third pipe.

The third pipe is the snail pipe (aka emergency pipe). By default absolutely NO water should be going down this pipe. It only exists for the inevitable day that some little jerk of a snail block the first or second pipe. I like my water to stay confined in a glass box. I want a third pipe.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Great. Thank you for the advice! I thought the exact same things - that the second pipe needs to handle the flow of the pump and it will make the 3-rd pipe unnecessary and that the second pipe needs to let you know if it is now handling the entire flow. Great to hear that Tab has experience with that setup for many years, makes me more confident that it can be done.

Right now I have two Eheim Compact pumps that move about 1400 gph actual volume. I want to keep the flow rate but the pipes will not be able to handle that flow. So I will use only one of the pumps in the sump and the other one inside the tank - for the extra flow. For anyone that doesn't know - the Eheim Compact pumps are completely silent. There is a low humming sound but inside the tank stand they become silent. I can literally sleep 3 ft. away from them.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

And here are a few pictures to visualise the Calfo coast-to-coast overflow and the weir that provides the best skimming (no "combs"):

Calfo overflow. Not necessarily spanning from the left to the right side glass (it could be installed on the side of the tank). It can have a "comb" to prevent trash entering the sump.









And the overflow without a "comb" which provides better skimming:


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## TAB (Feb 7, 2009)

I personally like the set ups that have a cut out on one of the walls and a box on the out side. Thats how i would go. i also like to over size my overflows. The beanimal overflow thread( which was split do to its size) on reef central has a wealth of knowldge. last time i checked it it was 200+ pages.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

I agree, surface skimming has made a huge difference in my tank. Even using something like the Eheim Skim 350 with a canister filter would be good to do.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Tab,

My tanks has two holes on the bottom already - close to the back glass. I will have to run pipes straight up into the overflow box. Which means that I am forced to have an overflow box spanning the entire back glass.

If I want to make sure there is a gyre water pattern movement that means that I have to have the outflow shooting from the back toward the front glass. That's ok except that the tank is 6' long and two outflows in the back will not really work very well to engage all the water in movement. I think that I will have to have the overflow on the back glass and I will put the outflows to the side shooting along the length of the tank. As long as I can make all the plant leaves wave in the current I should be ok.

About surface skimming making a difference: It is a fact that a tank with stagnant surface improves very much immediately when the surface is made to move. I bet everyone has tried to "keep the CO2 in" and minimized the surface movement at some point. Well, that does not work. What works is an actively but smoothly moving surface. Like on all the made up ADA pictures.









It appears that the two areas that are very important in a planted tank are the bottom and the surface. I've said that before but it really sounds logical - if you make sure that the bottom contributes to the functioning of the tank (nutrition and biofiltration) AND make sure that the surface provides gas exchange (and apparently protein skimming) then the tank is well on it's way to run more "hands off" than forcing you to keep it running ok.

And since we are talking about surface skimming here - for the people that don't know: ADA actively skims the surface too. I forgot about that and described only the flocculation happening when the water meets the CO2 bubbles. The other way to "suck the trash from the surface" is through the Lily pipe. The pipe constantly "sucks" the surface of the water and shoots it under the surface - when it is placed to create a small "vortex" like on the picture below. That basically allows the (hopefully) flocculated proteins to be sucked into the intake and pass through the biofilter. That makes sense if you also know that the biofilter does much more than convert Ammonia to Nitrate as every single aquarium enthusiasts knows. For more on that look up Yo-han's post about what the biofilter does in the "Filtration" subforum here.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Tab,

From your experience what is the maximum flow rate for a given size pipe?

I understand that with a pipe full of water, without any air obstructing the orifice, the flow rate capacity is large. But what are some diameter/flow rates that you know work well?


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Niko,

I've found a good rule of thumb to be to take the diameter of the pump outlet and increase it by 1/4-1/2 inch for your intakes/downdrafts. If your downdrafts are a straight shot, with no angles, directly into your sump, then +1/4 will do. If there are any hard angles/bends then +1/2 helps. I'm going to be using 2x 1.5" downdrafts on my big tank using a pump with a 1" outlet. A single 1.5" downdraft will be able to handle the entire output of the pump, but, because I'm going to be throttling the main drain back ala beananimal/herbie/personal experience I've elected to keep the second downdraft as insurance.


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## TAB (Feb 7, 2009)

1" ~ 500 gph 1.25"~ 900 gph 1.5"~1200 gph what phil said about going up to the next size is very good advice. i have never used anything larger the 1.5" as a drain for anything other then a surge tank, which is something completly diffrent. bulkheads larger then 1.5" size get huge, take up floor space and will always require thicker stock.( all holes do, but 3"+ holes are down right spooky)


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Great info! Thank you both!

My bulkheads are threaded inside. So when I screw in the strainers I reduce the orifice. There is no way to attach a pipe on the outside of the bulkhead so there is no loss of diameter. ID is 1" so from what Tab says the opening should handle 500 gph with no problem. The pump is rated at 1300 gph maximum but it actually runs about 700 gph. I maybe able to widen the opening by removing a fitting that adds about 1/8" of restriction all around the bulkhead.

Strange thing about the Eheim Compact pumps that I use is that the pump intake has a male thread that accepts a barbed fitting that is a SMALLER diameter than the ID of the intake. I can not understand how this reduction in ID helps. My attempts to ditch the restrictive barb where not a good idea - the good folk at Eheim luvz dey metrik threadz and I cannot find metric fittings that I can use.

This is shaping up to be a great project. I mean to end up with a surface skimming coast-to-coast overflow, without a "comb", a 55 gallon sump (not all of it full of bio and mechanical media though), silent overflow, and biomedia stacked with angled dividers to even the flow as shown in the other thread. I ditched the 3 Ancistrus that perforated the leaves of 3 huge Amazon swords so badly that I can now sell them as Madagascar Lace plants. I can now have an overpopulated planted tank that makes dirt mainly from the fish food. Like all normal planted folk's tanks, you know... Hopefully I will have time and means to finish this sump project.


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

I've never quite understood the use of male barbed adaptors either, Niko. They seem like an unnecessary constriction to me. I'd love to see some pics of your system's renovation if you've got any. I assume this is the big tank in the front room near the entryway? Got any current pics of it?


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

It is ugly right now. The Ancistrus really did a number on it - ate the few sword's leaves and the Cladophora ate me alive. I have not been changing water either. One of the big eheim filters went out of commission about a month ago. The fish are big and too many. Want to ask me again why I believe that "organics" are the plague of this hobby? The other day I wrapped Clado on a stick and pulled it out. It was about 3 lbs. (squeezed) and there is more left in the tank. If you want a picture of that mess I can send you one but make sure you have a bucket to puke in near by. The big Manzanita branches are not in the tank any more. It is sand with tuffs of Clado all over, perforated Amazon swords, and big cheeky tetras.

All of that has really made me feel that filtration is of utmost importance. Canister filters just don't cut it above certain fish/food load. I don't even want to try to stuff my canisters with a few grams of this Brightwell biomedia that supposedly works magic. A canister is a canister, period. A sump is the way to go. Really hope to be able to make it happen.


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

I agree with you wholeheartedly on the sump. I won't go back to a canister on any tank 75g or larger unless it's just for growing out plants. Don't forget that the media works in sumps too.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Tab,

Here's a design of a completely silent overflow that does not suck air. Watch the "Full demonstration" video that is on the first page.

What do you make of it?

https://www.facebook.com/SmaydaAquatics


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## Yo-han (Oct 15, 2010)

niko said:


> Tab,
> 
> Here's a design of a completely silent overflow that does not suck air. Watch the "Full demonstration" video that is on the first page.
> 
> ...


Nice solution, but I would still add an extra pipe if I were you


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## Tugg (Jul 28, 2013)

I wouldn't want to depend on something mechanical. It will eventually get clogged with debris and cause the float to fail. I'd put this with the flat Weir HOB overflows... Nice concept, but not practical.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Well, the first thing that I can say about this "toilet valve" design is that it uses a single pipe. So without a backup to handle the water in case of a problem the design risky. But in a standart internal overflow box you can use another pipe sticking up just above the max. water level that will drain the water in case of an overfill. That doesn't look like what the guy is offering but it makes sense. 

Another thing that bugged me - why use such an ugly big black ball on top? Yes, all the parts can be found in a home improvement store and maybe that is what is both cheap and effective. A Ping-Pong ball maybe just fine too. 

Either way - cleaning the entire thing must on a regular basis must be mandatory. I guess the second pipe that I think you should have as a backup will tell you when things get dirty real bad if you are too lazy to keep them clean on a regular basis.

Potentially unsafe or ugly maybe ok but what I don't quite understand is how it all stays silent. Ok, you manage to run water through the pipe without any air in it so it all drains fast and silent. But that's only possible if the flow rate through the pipe is slightly less than the pump rate. Meaning that there will always be a slight excess of water that will need to drain down also. In BeanAnimal/Herbie/Someone Else's design there is a second pipe that handles that excess water and stays silent only if the amount of water running through it does not exceed certain amount. But with the "toilet valve" design it all goes into one pipe. So when the black valve lets some water in there is bound to be some air too. Meaning noise. Apparently that does not happen. Magic.


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## Tugg (Jul 28, 2013)

The ball makes it a dynamic valve. It runs slower than the pump until the water in the overflow area rises a little and pulls the ball up (opening the valve, then it runs faster than the pump to drain the overflow area. Once the water drops the ball lowers, slowing the flow to lower than the pump again. The cycle repeats before air gets in... ideally*.

I think it's a POS design. It puts your open pipe too low in the over flow area. When the acrylic box eventually pulls from the glass and leaks, your display will flood your sump.


*look at how hard it has to pull to unplug the pipe at 3:44 in the video. The suction from the drain is holding that ball down pretty tightly. Get a little slimy junk on there and I have to wonder how high the water needs to get to pop that sucker.


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## TAB (Feb 7, 2009)

do you have a none facebook link?


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## Tugg (Jul 28, 2013)

I hope he doesn't mind me copying his video to my server.

http://www.evilknights.com/media/junkreturn.mp4


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