# which CF Bulb is better



## heineken357 (May 25, 2006)

Does any1 know what bulbs put out better light








or


----------



## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*

You may have hit the nail on the head as to why I can get really frustrated with buying bulbs.

Most hardware stores have CF bulbs without much labeling as to the spectrum. Lately the "soft white" has been a marketing tactic. Why people want to simmulate the cruddy red incandescent bulbs is beyond me :lol: But, these are probably in the range of 3500K. Not very good for plants.

The default used to be "cool white" which is around 4000K. That will grow plants, but not optimally. With the recent push for "soft white", I'm no longer certain though.

Some places do sell bulbs labeled as daylight, usually that means 5000K, and those will a decent job at growing plants. Some places sell 6500K bulbs which should do a better job at growing plants.

If the vendor refuses to list the spectrum in degrees K, I just say boycott them... I now go out of my way to buy meaningfully labeled bulbs.


----------



## heineken357 (May 25, 2006)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*

thaxs for the info ruki but the bulbs are from walmart and they are both 6500k. i have the top bulbs on my 10g tank 4x15w and they put out good color. i had to replace them its been over a year now and i like to get new bulbs. I tryed the twist bulbs and i think they put out the same kind of light around the tank like the u shaped bulbs. I returned the twist and got the U shaped bulbs ill just keep what works for me...


----------



## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*

I was about to say Model 2220, but you answered it yourself.

That is a Lights of America Bulb which like you said is a DayLight Bulb.

Wal*Mart and most stores in Upstate New York no longer carry that brand any more although I have no clue why. I have one very last set in one of my filing cabinet drawers I believe.

GE Bulbs that are cool white are all that can be found around here now. They are bright. 
But they are also blue.

It would not suck so badly if I did not know how nice the Daylight Bulb is.

I just hate it when one stupid idea wins over in the market place over the good idea.

Grumble, grumble, grumble.... Lucky West Coaster!


----------



## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*

My bad on my rant then for those bulbs. I didn't see any spectrum details on your information, so I assumed the worst :lol:

If these are both similar spectrum tubes, you can have a shootout with the bulbs to see which one is best. Take light meter measurements in an empty tank at multiple places at the bottom and see which shape wins.


----------



## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*

I need help. I just received my Galaxy II light fixture for my next Nano Bowl (vase) at the office.

It comes with a 50/50 Coralife Compact Flourescent Bulb. The 50/50 stands for half actinic and half daylight. Of course people that don't have an aquarium at an office would not care, but for those of us that do; having a BLUE light or a PINK light just does not fit in well at the office.

I know I have my old box (I hope) which I think contained my very first aquatic plant compact flourescent bulb which I believe was actually produced by All-Glass. I remember this because I was very surprised that All-Glass which for the most part makes regular glass aquariums, made ANYTHING that could be used in a Planted Tank AT ALL. I say this because the one time I called them on the phone they were NOT helpful about the idea of retrofitting my regular aquarium light fixture on my 27 Gallon 1/2 Hex Aquarium.

My question is this, do you think Lights of America would be only place that I could get a regular Compact Flourescent Bulb that would look WHITE (Daylight) or do you know of any others that I can give a shot or find online?

My last shot will be using the 10 Watt Compact Flourescent bulbs that they sell in Wal*Mart?

What do you suggest? (It has to fit inside the light fixture!)


----------



## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*

Okay, I just got the Wal*Mart Full Spectrum Mini Aquarium Light 10 Watts. It is not Bluish, but all white. I have to admit even if the other one is BLUE it does seem much brighter. Oh well, I will try the Wal*Mart bulb for now. I still have the 50/50 Coralife Bulb. Do you know anybody that has used this? Do they like it? And I DID have the old box for that bulb that I liked so much. Now I just need to find a store nearby that sells it! Here is the link. I liked it pretty well. http://www.all-glass.com/products/lighting/lighting.html

Just so you know, Model 2220 is the BRIGHTEST CF bulb that I have ever come across. 
If you can purchase that locally GET IT! 
I will have to try my old 2220 and see if it fits in the Galaxy II.


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*

At 6500K they probably have a large green spike in them that your green plants will not benefit from and they would have little red light but a fair amount of blue. Red and blue light are key to proper plant growth. A bulb with a 5000K reading would be better and a whiter light.

The bulb with the larger lumen rating would have more green light and less blue and red.


----------



## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*

When I talk with staff at Home Depot or Drs Foster & Smith; I can tell they almost cross their eyes when I start asking questions about their light bulbs from everything that I have learned here on APC.

Newt, I understood MOST of that. Are you trying to say that the UGLY BLUE light that came with the Galaxy II (50/50 Coralife Bulb) that is 50% Actinic and 50% White is better?

Can you show a link to where I can get this screw in CF that is 5000K? 
I could not find them in the ENTIRE catolog from drsfostersmith. Thanks.


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*

If you want to optimize plant leaf development (blue light) and stem elongation and color (red light) you need light in both the blue and red spectra for photosynthesis. You need a mix of blue and red for your plants, and green for you (brightness as perceived by humans). If your lighting looks extremely bright and your plants seem ultra-green, it means that you have lighting that outputs strongly in the green spectrum. Do not equate this with good lighting for your plants, because plants don't use light in the green spectrum for photosynthesis.
For green plants the lighting peaks that are most important:
Chlorophyll-a: 430nm/662nm 
Chlorophyll-b: 453nm/642nm 
Carotenoids: 449nm/475nm 
















I'm not sure where actinic lighting falls in the spectral output (nanometers) but I think it is around 420nm and is more for marine setups; althou many people do use them on planted tanks.
Try a 4000K if you can't find 5000K (its what the danish typically use; too yellow for my taste). I will scout around.


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*

http://www.goodmart.com/products/CFL.htm

http://saveonlighting.com/subcat-compact_fluorescent-swirl.htm

http://www.atlantalightbulbs.com/ecart/10Browse.asp?search=neolite

http://www.bulbs.com/Compact_Fluore...gle-_-light+bulbs-_-light+bulbs-_-light+bulbs


----------



## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*

How the **** did you know all that ****? God damn, you ****ing blew me away.

Are you a physicist or a chemist or a botanist?

So are you trying to say that the bulb that came with the Galaxy Light II fixture is best or which one?

You would not BELIEVE the ribbing and busting I received (in a nice way) from the guys at work when I brought in the PURPLE LIGHT for my then cubicle at the office.

I want the best, but it has to fit into a professional office. Image is A LOT in most offices.

I will try to follow your links to try to catch up with you.

Newt, what do you do for a living? You are one smart guy!!!!!


----------



## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=8154&N=2004+113347

My brain is fried. This is what I received.

I haven't even put in the plants, substrate or soil yet.

At this point, the only thing I KNOW is the Seachem Daily Dosage Schedule if I need it.

I want nice stuff in the office, and I am trying to figure out how the heck I am going to get the cool looking male Endlers I have in my home tank CAUGHT so I can put them in my office Nanos (1 Gallon & 3-6 Gallons (can't remember). ****, I just wanted something nice to counter-act the technological computer crap part of my life.

Wow!!!!!


----------



## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*

Newt, 
I don't quite agree/understand how 6500K has too much blue versus a 5000K bulb. To me, the 5000K bulb has too much yellow, but in some tanks it will look alot better from an aesthetic perspective. Both should work just fine though. I think the consensus here on APC is that 6500K bulbs usually work a bit better than 5000K bulbs, but yeah there's alot more to bulbs than just the Kelvins number.

Some questions for the curious:
* Most of the references I've read on photosynthesis greatly empasize the chlorophylls over the carotenoids. Why does the chart you use emphasize the carotenoids so much?

* Some of the posts here on APC have correlated more algae problems with 5000K lights over 6500K since apparently some algae types can utilize yellow light better than the plants can. Is this just myth?

* I might be biased in your direction though since I like to mix a plant bulb (that produces lots of reds) combined with a 6500K bulb that produces good blues. If you are stuck with a single CF tube then (oh the horrors! You can't mix colors as easily with CF tubes :lol: :lol: :lol

* With the red plants that we love so much, blue must be more important for growth since red is reflected off the plant. That's a reason for my bias towards blue end as well. We don't have many blue plants, at least yet :lol: Do the red plants utilize carotenoids more? That would be an argument for 5000K spectrum.

Not trying to be too obnoxious. Just some thoughts that came to mind when I read 5000K promoted over a 6500K.


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*

6500K bulbs inherently have a large amount of green and very little red light. The 5000K has a more balanced blend of BG&R. This is based on available spectral output graphs that I can get hold of. I think the 5000K bulbs are quite white, but then again the 5000K bulbs I use have a 92CRI.

Ruki, you also need to keep in mind MARKETING HYPE. They may say a bulb is this Kelven rating or that but in actuality it may be far from what they say.

Jimbo, I am a mechanical engineer and have been working for the last 10 or so years as an Environmental, Health and Safety Mgr. I have spent too much time (as my wife says) reading the Journal of Plant Phisiology.

Philips 6500K Daylight:









Coralife 6700K Trichromatic:


----------



## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*

Of course the Coralife has the CBGS (Coralife Big Green Spike). Pretty much all their bulbs have it...

So, perhaps I should ask if you know of any more true 6500K bulbs in either T8, T5 or T5 HO?

Interesting point on CRI though. Let's see how those inexpensive Octron tubes I like do for CRI

http://www.sylvania.com/content/display.scfx?id=003680212
http://www.saveonlighting.com/cat_brand-sylvania-fluorescent_20.htm

Octron 827 2700K CRI=84
Octron 830 3000K CRI=82
Octron 835 3500K CRI=82
Octron 841 4100K CRI=82
Octron 850 5000K CRI=80

Octron 830 XP 3000K CRI=85
Octron 835 XP 3500K CRI=85
Octron 841 XP 4100K CRI=85
Octron 850 XP 5000K CRI=90
Octron 865 XP 6500K CRI=85

All the newer bulbs are better than any of the older bulbs in regards to CRI.


----------



## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*










I want something like this










to fit into something like this

and not look BLUE OR PURPLE!!! (The light bulb that is. The fixture itself looks very attractive.)



> I am a mechanical engineer and have been working for the last 10 or so years as an Environmental, Health and Safety Mgr.


( I mean, come on, you know how badly the guys at work can bust on you for weird looking crap. Right? What would the guys at YOUR workplace say if they saw a PINK, PURPLE OR BLUE LIGHT in your office? (ha, ha, ha))

and make my Coffefolia Anubias or Hemianthus Micranthemoides HAPPY.


----------



## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*

Here's a tricky thing to consider. The human brain does an auto-white-color balance. If you're sitting for hours under a certain spectrum of light, your color comparison may get warped. For example, in my office there are alot of 3500K bulbs which makes 5000K bulbs look more that a bit blue, but against better light it's much closer to white!

In a training room, I noticed a mix of 3500K, 4100K and 5000K bulbs. The bulbs looked redish, white and blueish in comparison to each other.


----------



## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*

Training room for what?


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*

It just goes to show that everything is relative and based on perspective.


----------



## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: which cf bulb is better*



Jimbo205 said:


> Training room for what?


It was a corporate training room with a projector screen unit, so the fluorescent tubes were a grade better than what's above the sea of cubicles.


----------



## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

> In a training room, I noticed a mix of 3500K, 4100K and 5000K bulbs. The bulbs looked redish, white and blueish in comparison to each other.


 I am very selective with who I share what I have learned in this hobby with. The guys in the lighting department at Home Depot put up with me.

I can imagine the look I would receive from some co-workers if I shared this information with them.

The fellow aquatic hobbyist at work, I could do that with.

Heck the spider plant outside my office has flowered for the first time in 3 years. I wasn't sure if that was because I moved into my new office and it liked me, or if maintenance replaced the bulbs! :smile:

You just gave me an idea for my new office! My boss is going to kill me. I am shopping for new bulbs for my office. If I don't look at them, they are fine. If I look at them......yeech.


----------

