# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Apistogramma hongsloi--Update!!!



## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

One of the MacMasteri group, hongslois are deep-bodied and one of the larger apistos; males can reach 8 cm., females 5 cm. Highly territorial, at least a 30 gallon tank is recommended for these fish. A trio (one male, two females) is a good arrangement. Provide rock or driftwood caves, at least one for each fish.

Male hongsloi:










Female hongsloi in breeding colors:










[This message was edited by Vicki on Thu September 04 2003 at 07:11 PM.]


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

One of the MacMasteri group, hongslois are deep-bodied and one of the larger apistos; males can reach 8 cm., females 5 cm. Highly territorial, at least a 30 gallon tank is recommended for these fish. A trio (one male, two females) is a good arrangement. Provide rock or driftwood caves, at least one for each fish.

Male hongsloi:










Female hongsloi in breeding colors:










[This message was edited by Vicki on Thu September 04 2003 at 07:11 PM.]


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2003)

Great fish Vicki. I love the coloration on the male. Definitely something to consider in the future. 

1) How hard is this fish to spawn on scale from 1-10 ?
2) How "friendly" are they to other members of the tank ?


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Can't answer 1 just yet, Jay, I haven't seen any babies, I've only had them for five weeks--although I am VERY hopeful the dominant female has eggs or fry in her cave, she hasn't come out for two days, all I've seen is her nose. And the male is on patrol constantly, and has about harassed the other male to death, I'm going to move him as soon as I can catch him, poor guy. After Sven's vielflecks spawned in his water, which is about the same hardness as mine, I thought I'd wait a month or two and see if they'd produce fry in my regular water conditions, since hongsloi are supposed to be more tolerant of harder water than most apistos. If they do, great--if not, I'll start softening the water and see if that makes a difference.

2. At present their only tankmates are ottos, and they pay no attention unless the ottos get near the cave. The dominant male and female chase the other male and female aggressively, but that's to be expected; I'm not sure how they'll be with other fish. I'm still holding out for coral reds like 2la's, but haven't gotten any yet.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

vicki, lower the water level and use 2 nets if you have to, but you need to get that other male out of there. he will be killed or jump. (been there, done that.) if you pull the pair, just start another tank with them, and put some dithers into the tanks with the pairs, to take their minds off of attacking each other. 

rick


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Yes, I know you're right, Rick. I should have made a concerted effort to get him out yesterday and just didn't. I just took some nice sawbwa resplendens out of quarantine, but I didn't want to put them in with the apistos, so I have no suitable dithers for them at the moment. I'll catch him tonight, one way or the other.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Look what I found when I got home from work tonight:































And it was such a lousy day right up to that moment!!!

Jay, with regard to Question NO. 1 above: so far, pretty easy! You'll have to give me a little more time regarding how easy raising the fry turns out to be. Sorry the picture's a little fuzzy, it was the best Mom would let me get.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## imported_Ghazanfar Ghori (Jan 31, 2003)

Sign me up for the fry if you wish to sell
them! I've been looking for the apisto for
the longest time!

-
Ghazanfar Ghori


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## imported_molahs4 (Feb 3, 2003)

Congratulations on your babies! Seeing them get older and move out of their parents home must be a very gratifying experience.

-Scott
tank specs and bad pictures


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

LOL! Not as gratifying as watching my own grow up and move out! I'll be happy if these guys are still there when I get home tonight.

Ghori, I would be delighted to send you some hongsloi babies, I hope I get the opportunity. This is their first spawn, we'll see how they do with the fry. Actually, I think the second female may also have a spawn in her cave, she hasn't come out to eat for the last couple of days either.

I can't believe how lucky I was to find these guys at the ACA show and settle on them for my first apistos. Until I started checking around after I got home, I didn't realize hongslois were so hard to come by, at least in the United States. I've gotten more enjoyment out of these fish in a few weeks' time than I would ever have expected.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

cichlid behaviour, esp parenting is one of the best thngs about fishkeping imo. i can hardly wait to see my geophagus mouth- brooding.

you want to get some bbs in there when they have been free-swimming for about 5 days or so- shooting little bits at a time, till you are sure they are eating it. i refuse to use egg based fry food (liquifry etc) in any of my tanks, it makes a royal mess of everything. i have no idea how you would clean it out of gravel, but in a bb tank it is really dirty stuff. planaria love it and they will attack fry.

rick


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## imported_Ghazanfar Ghori (Jan 31, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Vicki:
> Ghori, I would be delighted to send you some hongsloi babies, I hope I get the opportunity.
> ...


Definitly look me up when they're 1/2" size.
I'll either buy them from you - or we can swap.
Whatever you prefer.

I knew I should have gone to the ACA!!!

-
Ghazanfar Ghori


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Wish you had, Ghori, I could have met you there! Tony Orso is the guy I got my hongslois from, and he had 8 varieties of apistos at the convention. Frustrating guy to get a hold of--he doesn't maintain his website, and he doesn't answer his e-mail, either! But he has some REALLY nice fish--nice selection of synodontis catfish, geophagus, other stuff.

Rick, BBS is finally ready to feed this morning; they took an extra 12 hours to hatch because I couldn't find my handy-dandy halogen desk lamp that I always keep them warm with! The babies took frozen BBS, though, and also a very good powdered fry food I keep on hand that I use for my angels if I'm short on BBS, and they're picking up the little bugs from the plants and driftwood, too. I'm champing at the bit waiting for the lights to come on!

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2003)

Congratulations Vicki.

I cast a "breeding spell" once you told me NO to the first question. Good job









Ghazanfar,

Tony Orso will be a speaker at NJAS. He may, or probably will, bring some apistogramma sp. Get the point ?

[This message was edited by Jay Luto on Sat September 06 2003 at 07:17 PM.]


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## imported_Ghazanfar Ghori (Jan 31, 2003)

Dude. I'm there. Vicki, how much did you get them for if you
don't mind me asking?

-
Ghazanfar Ghori


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

$25 a pair, Ghori. I was on vacation, I had the money, I wanted them and I didn't even blink. Actually, I don't think that was bad at all--especially since he threw in a beautiful African wild anubias, he had tons of assorted species. Besides, I've more than gotten my money back in enjoyment already! At ACA he also had viejitas, macmasteri, agassizi, a couple of cacatuoides (some nice triple reds)--I forget what else, but he had tons of fish. I hope he brings as nice an assortment to NJAS!

LOL! Thanks for the help, Jay--all contributions gratefully accepted!

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## imported_Svennovitch (Feb 1, 2003)

Woohoo, Vicki!!

Great, your apistos spawned








Congratulations!

How are the fishies doing? Any update? Pic?

Mine (Vielfleck) have already spawned four times (both females two times). But I haven't got the time to take care of the young. Hope to do that soon, though.

Sven

PS: nice, a fish gallery


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Thanks, Sven--you inspired me to let them be for a while before I started peat filtration! It was a small spawn, I never saw more than about a dozen babies, and at last count I still have six, which are growing well--when Mom lets me see them! She's been keeping them down in the bushes for the last couple of days, but she's still chasing Dad away so I assume they're still in there. The picture I got above, the day I first saw them, is the ONLY good chance I've had to get a picture! If I ever get another chance I'll post an update.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## imported_Svennovitch (Feb 1, 2003)

Oh, Vicki, please! Don't credit me for something you did by yourself ! But still, it is flattering









Do you notice some growth? Are they eating the BBS well?

For me, with the second batch of fry, I noticed the parents were a lot better at guarding the little fish. I guess they learned a lot from the first time. It is really spectacular to see the female with her babies swimming through the tank.

Sven


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Yes, they're at least double the size they were when I first saw them (that was 11 days ago). They ate the BBS right from the first--and in that tank with all the plants, there's plenty of other stuff for them to munch on. I wish she'd bring them out more so I could keep an eye on them--she started parading them out front after a week or so, but now she's retreated to the bushes again. Probably my fault, I HAD to do some serious pruning this weekend, the huge mass of watersprite was so thick there's no way a fish could have gotten through it! I HAVE seen them since I tore that side of the tank apart, so at least I know I didn't squish them all. They are so cute!!! They have a lot of color for such small fry, you can already see black and yellow markings, and their fins are all starting to develop. I really hope they make it, I still worry about Dad doing damage--but Mom is pretty formidable, she chases him anytime he comes near. If I'd had brains enough to leave a light on for her the first two nights after I saw them, there would probably have been more survivors, but I didn't, don't know what I was thinking.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2003)

Vicki,

You kept the fry in your "main" planted tank ?. I thought you would take them out. 
How often do you change your water ?
Do you see any adverse events to water quality b/c of BBS feeding ?


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## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

vicki, that is a great point you made... if you want your females to be able to guard their fry, make sure you leave a light on, even if it is a 15 watt light in the room. fry go fast at night IME in a community setting, esp with tetras in the tank.

rick


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Yes, and as many angel babies as I've raised you'd think I'd remember that. That's what comes about being so excited about the fry you forget the other stuff, I guess. I'm still kicking myself.

Jay, I set up that 30 gallon especially for the apistos, and part of my plan was being able to see the apistos raise their fry and observe their behavior. Of course, that was before I found out hongsloi are as rare as hen's teeth--or at any rate, it sure is hard to find anyone selling them. If there were more of them I might have tried to move them, but Mom is keeping them so deep in cover it would be really hard to get them out right now anyway. I saw them tonight for the first time since Sunday, and I was surprised how much they'd grown in two days! They seem to be doing well right now, so I'm going to leave them be in the hope that they'll get big enough so I can move them with less risk to the fry--at which point, hopefully, they'll spawn again, and I'll have a bigger group to work with. I'm changing about 30% every three days, no degradation in water quality--I still have to add potassium nitrate to get nitrates to 5 ppm. Naturally, I'm overfeeding, there isn't any way to avoid it, but the adults are taking care of a good portion of the stray BBS. Even the ottos are eating them! All those plants are doing a good job of keeping the water clean--best filtration there is for fry tanks.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## imported_Svennovitch (Feb 1, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Vicki:
> If I'd had brains enough to leave a light on for her the first two nights after I saw them, there would probably have been more survivors, but I didn't, don't know what I was thinking.


I will remember that about the small light !

Sven


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

Vicki, 
What are the water parameters you keep for these fish? I have had such good luck with Kribs that I would like to try some Rams in my new tank set up. Maybe when you get to the point you are ready to sell some we could work something out. I bet your water is close to the water here.

Hawk

Trust But Verify «*»®


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

My tap water varies some in the course of a year, Hawk, but most of the time ph is right around 7, KH is 4 and GH is 9-10. The kribs spawn incessantly in my water, I have two mated pairs in my 120 gallon and one or the other almost always have fry. I'm filtering the hongsloi tank through peat now, which has dropped the ph to the neighborhood of 6.2, although it hasn't made a big difference in the GH. Mom is very eggy, and I'm hoping for a larger spawn this time; I think I still have a couple of survivors from the first spawn, but they stay hidden most of the time. Every time I think they're gone, I'll see one again! I sure would like to have another, larger spawn to work with, though.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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