# Filter and CO2



## Kamon (Mar 27, 2009)

I have an AquaClear HOB filter on my 29gal that I've been using for nearly eight months. The filter works well, but its been posted on APC and other forums that HOB filters can lower the level of CO2 in a tank. Water level in my aquarium is level with the filter to reduce this effect. Canister filters sound much better, but I'm a bit short on cash atm. Any cheap canisters out there (DIY works as well)?

DIY yeast CO2 is decent at best. I'd rather have a pressurized system. A paintball CO2 tank sounds affordable. I have no experience with pressurized CO2, so a good explanation of what all I would need (while keeping things cheap) would be great. 

Thanks for reading.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Kamon,

In one of my tanks I kept my Aquaclear HOB filter and when I could afford it I bought the pressurized CO2. With the pressurized system I continue to feed my CO2 into the input of the Aquaclear, it works just great!


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## Kamon (Mar 27, 2009)

Input of the filter? I'm not sure if I know what that means...


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## oakleyhoma (Nov 11, 2008)

perhaps it means into the return part of the chamber?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Kamon,

oakleyhoma is correct, I run the tubing from my CO2 (DIY 0r pressurized) down the input tube of the Aquaclear filter and put the end in the strainer. I hold the CO2 tubing in place with rubber bands. The bubbles are sucked up the filter input tube, hit the filter impeller and are broken into microbubbles which flow into the filter chamber. The microbubbles get caught in the sponge filter material and dissolve as the water flows past. It may not be as efficient as a CO2 reactor, but it works very well.


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## leolucido (May 23, 2008)

They say go with what you can afford. In this hobby however it's always best to buy the best you can really afford. 

HOB filters do the job but you're better off with canister filters in the long run, maintenance wise and return of investment. 

On CO2, the paintball cylinders actually end up costing you more due to frequent refills to the store. I would take my time if I were you until you find a good deal for a complete CO2 system.


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## Kamon (Mar 27, 2009)

Thanks for the replies! 

I'll take your advice and wait for a complete CO2 system. I'd still like to find a somewhat affordable one. And recommendations?

I believe I understand what you are trying to say, Seattle. I would run the tubing along the outside of the input tube of the filter to the very end of the strainer (or sucker-thing). I am currently running tubing from my DIY bottle into a glass diffuser to spread the bubbles around the tank.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Kamon,

You got the idea! What I like is the CO2 rich water flows out of the filter and flows throughout the aquarium with current from the filter.


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## Kamon (Mar 27, 2009)

Seattle: I'm sure your method is much better than what I'm currently using. Thanks for the advice you've given me. 

I'm trying to find a 5lb CO2 cylinder on ebay for a reasonable price. Can I use any 5lb cylinder? Or does it have to be a certain kind?  

The reason I ask is because I've read that some regulators are different sizes.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Kamon,

If the cylinder (tank) is for CO2, it should be fine. They are usually available in aluminum or steel. If it is used, and has not been hydrostatically tested in the last five years, it may cost you $25 to have it tested before it can be filled. A new 5# costs about $60 plus freight.


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## Kamon (Mar 27, 2009)

That was the price I was shooting for. 

Regulators are usually expensive. Is there a "cheaper" one?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Kamon,

Here is a new 5# aluminum cylinder, $60, with free shipping.

Here is a pretty good regulator for less than $40 plus freight; you will need to pick up a needle valve and adaptor to fit the regulator, try Rex Grigg or Greenleaf. Skip the solenoid and bubble counter....keep it simple!


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## Kamon (Mar 27, 2009)

Seattle: Thanks again! I'll contact Rex Grigg for the needle valve. I did not read anything about him selling adaptors, though.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Kamon,

What you will do is remove the 3/8" O.D. Outlet Barb with Shut-Off from the regulator body and install either a needle valve with a 3/8" base or a needle valve with a different O.D. base and use an adapter. Rex sells lots of different adaptors or they can be purchased at a plumbing supply store. Don't forget, Teflon tape goes on the threads of all connections.


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## Kamon (Mar 27, 2009)

Seattle: I think I understand. I'll email Rex for a needle valve with a 3/8'' base. If I can get one with a 3/8'' base, I wouldn't need an adaptor, right?

Also, has anyone had any experience with a Nova Extreme T5HO 2x24w Freshwater 30'' light fixture? 

I'm thinking of buying two for my 29gal.


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## Kamon (Mar 27, 2009)

Oh, I almost forgot. 

I've been to many different pet stores and cannot find anything to measure K, NO3, P, Fe, etc in ppm. Where in the world can I find this?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Kamon,

The only test kits I use regularly are the Nitrate test kit and PH test kit by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals (API).


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## Kamon (Mar 27, 2009)

I bought the CO2 tank and regulator you suggested, Seattle. What are the advantages of having a solenoid? I'm not actually sure what a solenoid is. 

Rex Grigg has about three different needle valves. I'm not sure which one to buy. 

Any help?


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## Ahura-sama (Sep 5, 2008)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> What you will do is remove the 3/8" O.D. Outlet Barb with Shut-Off from the regulator body and install either a needle valve with a 3/8" base or a needle valve with a different O.D. base and use an adapter. Rex sells lots of different adaptors or they can be purchased at a plumbing supply store.


Damn, you know if that barb on the shut off valve can be removed w/out removing the adapter to the shut off valve??

I like the shut off valve in addition to my needle, but that included-barb's making my set up redundant. (I had to use a bridge piece of 3/8 tube to connect it to my 3/8 barb of the needle).

I've tried removing the barb, but it is stuck to the valve's adapter, and apparently that adapter is proprietary or something.

Edit:


Kamon said:


> I bought the CO2 tank and regulator you suggested, Seattle. What are the advantages of having a solenoid? I'm not actually sure what a solenoid is.


SOlenoid is basically an electronic operated shut-off valve. For our sake, it's usually hook up to a ph controller and set it so that at certain lvl of co2 saturation the controller would tell the solenoid to shut off the co2.

Expect it to be expensive.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Kamon,

A solenoid is basically a valve controlled by a magnet. It is used to turn on and turn off the flow of CO2 from the tank to your needle valve. It can be controlled by a timer or a PH controller. I don't use them, although some individuals do. They are known to fail, I just run my CO2 24 hours a day.

I like Rex and have purchased from him in the past, but he can be slow. I use the Ideal needle valve, but they are expensive. Why not give Orlando a call at Greenleaf Aquarium ((352) 371 - 1550) and see what needle valve / adaptor he recommends. He offers several different models. BTW, skip the bubble counter as well. If you want to know what your bubble count is, stick the tubing in your tank. I use an inexpensive drop checker to measure my CO2 level and don't worry about the bubble count.


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## aquatic_clay (Aug 17, 2009)

IMO I would spend the money on a canister filter before getting the paintball CO2 and continue using diy CO2. Just put the CO2 line in the intake strainer of the canister filter and it works as a diffuser it's not 100% effective but you can still get up to 30 PPM with DIY CO2 very easily. I know that petco has had some pretty sweet deals on their fluval canisters for the past few months. It'll probably end up a little bit cheaper than the paint ball set up and will work just as well!!!

Clay


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## Kamon (Mar 27, 2009)

I ended up buying a 5lb tank and a regulator from beveragefactory in the link Seattle_Aquarist provided. 

Thankfully, the cylinder came through the mail today. I believe it is already filled, so thats good. 

Heres another question (to go along with the others, lol); I'll have to use less CO2 if I plan to run it 24/7, right? In other words, would I keep the amount of CO2 lower than I would with a solenoid? 

I feel like the solenoid would keep my tank lasting longer than using it 24/7.


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## aquatic_clay (Aug 17, 2009)

You could add an air stone to pump oxygen in the water and set it on a timer to come on when the lights are off to help prevent a PH crash at night.

Clay


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## Ahura-sama (Sep 5, 2008)

> I believe it is already filled, so thats good


Highly doubt it, unless BeverageFactory like to take lawsuit risk up the ying yang.

Look for beverage supplies shop near your area to fill up on co2. Cost me like 12 buck to fill up my 5lb.



> Heres another question (to go along with the others, lol); I'll have to use less CO2 if I plan to run it 24/7, right? In other words, would I keep the amount of CO2 lower than I would with a solenoid?


You can manually shut off the flow. Solenoid is just an automation alternative. Running co2 24/7 is not gonna degenerate your tank or wat/ever so dont worry about that.


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## Kamon (Mar 27, 2009)

Thanks, guys.

I really had no idea if it was filled or not. I assumed it was (I've never purchased a CO2 cylinder before). 

I believe I'll wait and get a solenoid later, since I'd like to save as much money as possible atm. 

Would I keep the flow of CO2 just as high with the 24/7 method as I would with a solenoid?


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## Ahura-sama (Sep 5, 2008)

Kamon said:


> Thanks, guys.
> 
> I really had no idea if it was filled or not. I assumed it was (I've never purchased a CO2 cylinder before).
> 
> ...


When you go to fill it, dont ask for the full 5lb. Co2 are traded in liquid form for a reason, they take up less space per volume. Ask for 4.5-.7 cause once you get it home and let it settled, the liquid will evaporates into gas form and fill the rest. And yes it will blow up if it get overfilled.

Doubt it

You regulate base on your tank's need. That's what test kits are there for. There's an ideal range of co2 saturation. Just get everything set-up and you will get it eventually. Pretty flat learning curve.


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## Kamon (Mar 27, 2009)

How exactly do I remove the O.D. barb from the regulator? I'm assuming the O.D. barb is the lower portion of the regulator with the red handle. 

I don't have a clue as to what I'm doing to attatch the needle valve to the regulator.


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## Kamon (Mar 27, 2009)

Anyone at all?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Kamon,

"I'm assuming the O.D. barb is the lower portion of the regulator with the red handle. " Yes, that is correct!

It unscrews from the body of the regulator, use a wrench or a pair of pliers and a vise if it is really tight.


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## bosmahe1 (May 14, 2005)

leolucido said:


> They say go with what you can afford. In this hobby however it's always best to buy the best you can really afford.
> 
> HOB filters do the job but you're better off with canister filters in the long run, maintenance wise and return of investment.
> 
> On CO2, the paintball cylinders actually end up costing you more due to frequent refills to the store. I would take my time if I were you until you find a good deal for a complete CO2 system.


Filling paintball cylinders sometimes doesn't cost that much more. AirGas charges $17.80 for a 5 lb cylinder refill. 5 LBs equals 80 OZ $17.80/80=.22 (22 Cents) per OZ. My closest source for CO2 is a paintball store that charges 25 cents per OZ, regardless of tank size. So, a 5 lb cylinder would cost $20.00 to refill there. That's $2.20 cents more per 80 OZ. What I'm doing is using 20 OZ Paintball canisters that cost $5.00 to fill at the paintball store. So, I'm spending 3 cents more per OZ to get CO2 at the paintball store thats 6 miles closer and open on weekends and evenings.

So, the assertion that Paintball CO2 is more costly isn't always true. Plus, I can hand the wife a paintball tank for filling when she is going in the direction of the paintball store. She might not want to carry the 5 LB cylinder to the store. 20 OZ of CO2 lasts me a month on a 46 gallon aquarium.


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