# FIXING EVERYTHING!!! Fixing spree. Need Assistance with Co2 problem(s).



## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

Alright so ill provide pictures along with the description of the issue.

*Equipment list:*
5lb Co2 canister, GLA regulator, GLA canister, Was a GLA package. 
GLA inline diffuser.
NilocG Drop Checker, Drop Checker Fluid.
GLA Clear Co2 tubing. 
Double Manifold regulator.

*Problem Description: *

I will Vividly describe this, as detailed as I possibly can, because I'm Dedicated to fixing this 65G tank within the next 3 months ready for planting.

The actual problem conclusion, not solution but the whole issue in a few words is, No Co2 Diffusion.

In my 65G aquarium I have 0% Co2 in the water, says the drop checker which is a cotton candy blue. So, that's my problem, 0% Co2 in the water. 
According to GLA who didn't reply to my questions on This problem *eventually*, everything I'm doing is correct and I shouldn't be having this issue.
I think the problem is the inline diffuser because I had a big glass diffuser before and my drop checker was a nice lime green. I just go by the fish and the drop checker. But since I switched to the inline diffuser, I'm getting a blue drop checker... 
Another thing that could be the problem inside the problem, is that there is roughly 6ft of tubing starting from the canister going and ending at the inline diffuser, but its all flat and straight no loopy lupe's or anything, and I have seen tubing longer than that on a tanks fixture! 
Another thing!: is that when the co2 comes on, the bubble checker BLASTS bubbles out of the cone shaped hole, I MEAN IT BLASTS THEM! here is a pic mid blast:








Reason for that is because I have the valve all the way open so I can get "as much Co2" as I can into the tank! but I'm getting 0% Co2 in the tank!... Hope that adds up for you the reader, if not re-read it a few times...
So in preparation for the "finding out of this issue/problem" I took all the necessary precautions before making this post... 
Changed out the drop checker fluid:








Above pic is before,
Below pic is mid change
Below the below pic is afterwards (1 hour after, still blue)

















Also refilled the bubble counters (btw, the other drop checker to the right connects to my Fluval spec V diffuser and it works just fine, Drop checker in there is lime green.)

































Co2 was refilled beginning of this month for the 2nd time since ive had these tanks up, wasn't even empty they said.

Here is the inline diffuser:









So I HOPE SO MUCH that someone can help me with this God awful frustrating issue. 
Thanks much,
Nate


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

It is very common to have CO2 leaks, and it takes a very small leak to keep you from getting any into the tank. I suggest you start by mixing a dishwashing liquid soap/water mix, like you would for blowing bubbles, and soaking every single joint in the system from the regulator to the tank. Wait a few minutes and look for tiny little blobs of very small bubbles - a CO2 leak.

If that doesn't help I would dilute some of the drop checker solution with equal parts distilled water, to get 2 dKH water. That will turn green at 15 ppm and almost yellow at 25 ppm, making it easier to judge how much CO2 you are getting. Remember it takes 2 hours or more for the drop checker to get to the appropriate color.









Your "inline diffuser" picture shows the bubble counters, not diffusers!

Your regulator seems to be set at 40+ psi, which is higher than usually used, but I don't see how that causes any problems other than difficulty in setting the bubble rate.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

hoppycalif said:


> It is very common to have CO2 leaks, and it takes a very small leak to keep you from getting any into the tank. I suggest you start by mixing a dishwashing liquid soap/water mix, like you would for blowing bubbles, and soaking every single joint in the system from the regulator to the tank. Wait a few minutes and look for tiny little blogs of very small bubbles - a CO2 leak.
> 
> If that doesn't help I would dilute some of the drop checker solution with equal parts distilled water, to get 2 dKH water. That will turn green at 15 ppm and almost yellow at 25 ppm, making it easier to judge how much CO2 you are getting. Remember it takes 2 hours or more for the drop checker to get to the appropriate color.
> 
> ...


Hey Hoppy! 
Ill move the pressure to 35 PSI, would that sound acceptable?
As for the image, my apologies I copy and pasted the link incorrectly, should be fixed momentarily. 
Its late at night here, so tomorrow morning first thing I will do is your Tire check suggestion. Pray its not a leak... 
Thank you hoppy much for helping me along the way here! ill update you when I do that. And thanks for the additional info and suggestions.


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## Gone missing (Aug 26, 2017)

Some other points to think over are what might be making too much CO2 leave. We sometimes get so involved with getting it IN that we forget to check that we aren't just blowing it out almost as fast. 
Got any place where there is a lot of splash that makes for losing CO2? Lots of waves that could be cut back? 
Not likely to be the total problem but something to adjust that will help. 
I like that soap solution to be really think so that it clings to things long enough to let the tiny bubbles grow so I can notice the change. Also don't forget to check some of the weird points like the glass on meters or screws on the back as a leak inside the meter can come out the backside where we don't think it can get.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

Turns out it was a leak.
Right under the 2 bubble counters, where it seems the washers where?
I contacted GLA asked them about it.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

Update:
GLA says its the oring under the bubble counter, they said "its the only thing it could be"
I sent them pics of the oring, didn't have any damage or debris, looked fine nothing odd or unordinary to me. looked like a metal washer... 
So im going from there now. Still accepting conclusions, thoughts, and general advice.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

An O ring is a rubber ring, with a circular cross section. It doesn't look at all like a metal washer. Some applications use a metal washer behind the O ring, but that is not a seal, just a way to back up the O ring seal. I think I would visit a good hardware store and look for a real O ring that fits the "groove" for it, not tightly, but so the ring is compressed a little bit when installed. Without actually seeing where the seal goes it is hard to do more than guess about it.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

hoppycalif said:


> An O ring is a rubber ring, with a circular cross section. It doesn't look at all like a metal washer. Some applications use a metal washer behind the O ring, but that is not a seal, just a way to back up the O ring seal. I think I would visit a good hardware store and look for a real O ring that fits the "groove" for it, not tightly, but so the ring is compressed a little bit when installed. Without actually seeing where the seal goes it is hard to do more than guess about it.


hey hoppy,
sorry I was talking about the wrong thing in the last post out:
LOL Co2 nooby. Learned what the oring is!! 
But it still isn't scuffy or has any marks, no damage at all... And that's not where the leak was even coming from, it was coming from under the bubble counter but they insist its the oring, sound right? or?...


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

DutchMuch said:


> hey hoppy,
> sorry I was talking about the wrong thing in the last post out:
> LOL Co2 nooby. Learned what the oring is!!
> But it still isn't scuffy or has any marks, no damage at all... And that's not where the leak was even coming from, it was coming from under the bubble counter but they insist its the oring, sound right? or?...


Since the purpose of an O ring is to act as a seal, a leak would probably be due to a bad O ring or improperly installed O ring. I haven't seen one of those bubble counters so I am really just guessing.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

Here are some pics hoppy, may be of use.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

K I FEEL DUMB
JUST FOUND OUT FOR SURE WHAT THE O RING IS
GOD I wish there was a dictionary of Co2 words.
lol
I cant remove the 'thing' that the o ring is attached to though?...


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

It looks like there was no seal at the brass female pipe thread. The bubble counter that screws into that hole should have teflon tape wrapped tightly around the threads, about 3 or 4 turns, or pipe dope applied to the male threads. Then the bubble counter has to be screwed in tightly, tight enough, but not so tight as to break the parts.

If there was a "washer" between the brass part and the bubble counter, it has to have an O-ring in it, so the rubber contacts both the brass flat surface and the flat surface above it on the bubble counter.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

Thank you much hoppy I will look into those things and get back to you.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

Hoppy,
do we need anything other than Teflon tape around the male thread at the bottom of the bubble counter where it screws into the brass female (i.e. a flat washer or o ring or just Teflon tape on the bottom)


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Pipe threads are tapered threads that seal by tightening the connection. But, for small fittings like that you would probably break the parts before it would be leak free. So, you need to wind a teflon plumbers tape, very thin teflon tape with no adhesive, around the male thread a few times in the direction that causes the thread to pull tighter as you screw it into the female thread (counter clockwise). Now, screw the parts together and tighten it using appropriate size wrenches, until it is tight. (A too large wrench would not feel tight until you break the parts.) I often prefer to get a small amount of pipe dope and put a daub on the male thread, smeared around the whole circumference, and use that instead of the tape. The pipe dope can be best because then there is no chance of tiny bits of teflon tape breaking off and plugging a passage downstream of the connection.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

Alright I'm going to lowes today to go pick up some Pipe Dope, is that all I should have on my list? GLA's o rings are on the way. 

Also to be clear, the o ring on the lower end (bottom) of the bubble counter, wasn't the issue? if so I understand because the bubbles WERE coming from the brass nut connection area as you say.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

Ok hoppy so double check me since I did what you said, and hopefully I did it correctly. 
Where the brass nut was, I removed the Bubble counters (I did this to both of them) and put pipe dope on the Bottom of both the bubble counters (the bottom male threads). 
After I put the pipe dope on both bottom Male Threads, I put stuck them gently into the brass nuts and twisted it very hand tight. 
After that I turned on the Co2, so we will see where we go from there I guess.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I wonder if hand tight is enough, although I don't see any other way to tighten it. If you can hold onto the metal(?) part below the clear plastic part of the bubble counter tube I suggest making it as tight as you can with something with a handle about 6 inches long.

If the leak was from the Oring between the clear plastic and the metal(?) part you would get bubbles from the "crack" between the two parts, not at the bottom of the metal(?) part.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

hey hoppy,
problem again, I checked the drop counter 2 hours later and it was still BLUE not as blue but very blue.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Is the leak fixed? How many bubbles per second are you using? A 65 gallon tank should get a stream of bubbles, not 1 or 2 bubbles per second. Are you using 2 dKH water in the drop checker? That isn't necessary, but it does make it easier to see 10-20 ppm CO2.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

hoppycalif said:


> Is the leak fixed? How many bubbles per second are you using? A 65 gallon tank should get a stream of bubbles, not 1 or 2 bubbles per second. Are you using 2 dKH water in the drop checker? That isn't necessary, but it does make it easier to see 10-20 ppm CO2.


Hey hoppy, thanks much for the help.

BPS: uncountable. But heres the thing you may find interesting, you say to have a stream of bubbles, that Is what I set it for, about 10bps (uncountable really). But after about 10 seconds max, it stops like there is something blocking the exit for the Co2 (diffuser). Now here is my hypothesis, since it Stops after 10 seconds, are the leaks coming from built up pressure due to the diffuser, NOT diffusing? Its an inline diffuser from GLA of course.

Yes using 2dKH water from NilocG

Also here is what GLA said to me after I applied to the pipe dope to the male threads into the female threads:

*"I would wait for your new oring pack to arrive. Pipe dope really won't or should not gave any effect on this connection. My best advise is to consult us, vs somebody else because nobody knows our co2 systems like us.

The new prints will fix you. Easy solution.

As for your drop checker being blue, and not enough co2 in water is more than likely due to the amount of co2 off gassing you have.

For example, what filter system do you use? A 65g tank is super easy to saturate with co2. So if you find your having trouble with co2 levels, look as to why your co2 is not staying in solution? Off gassing?

Lastly what diffuser are you using?"*

I really think its the diffuser though causing all this, have from the start but no one believes me...


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I have never seen one of those diffusers, so I have no idea how well they work. But, blocking the flow of CO2 will not raise the pressure in the CO2 line above what the regulator is set for - 35-40 psi.

I diffuse my CO2 into a 65 gallon tank using this pump: https://www.amazon.com/VicTsing-Sub...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=JVVN8XGA8NK6SENG85EA I put a small check valve on the end of the CO2 line, then stuck the output of that into the inlet grid of the pump. This gives me an almost constant flow of microscopic CO2 bubbles as the pump chops up the big CO2 bubbles. I use DIY CO2 and get around 15-20 ppm of CO2 that way. See http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...-discussions/133058-diy-co2-2.html#post945049 That thread also shows the check valve I use.

I'm not sure GLA understood where you used pipe dope. They seemed to believe you used it where the O ring is.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

ill tell them


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

well
now gla is saying that its the diffuser, which is what ive been saying FROM THE START lol they say its clogged they will send a new one to see what happens
so now I wait lol!


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## Skizhx (Oct 12, 2010)

I've looked at buying one of those inline diffusers.

If I recall, it's actually more of an atomizer, using a fine-pore ceramic, which was the reason I didn't purchase it. Fear of clogging with no means of opening it to clean out the ceramic. You could maybe try disconnecting it and giving it a scrub with a hard-bristle pipe cleaner, see if that helps.

I ended up purchasing an ISTA Max Mix instead.










It's better than complete garbage, which is unfortunately better than a lot of the products out there. The turbine at the top doesn't spin realiably regardless of how much water you blast it with, but there's more than enough agitation from the water getting sprayed around in the chamber to get the diffusion I need.

Alternatively, there's no shortage of DIY inline reactors that will set you back nothing more than the cost of some PVC cement and a couple odd bits of PVC and elbow joints.


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

I'm in Illinois right now at Aquatic Experience, going back on Monday morning so ill update this then.
But the diffuser has arrived.


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