# New Planted Tank. Could use your advice (Pics inside).



## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

Hey everyone.
I've read about planted tanks for quite a few months and decided to take a first dive.


Juwel Rio R240
Original T5's 54WX2
Sera Floradepo as the lower Layer (4.7Kg)
5 bags of Elos Terra (Total of 25 Liter) as the upper layer
Some nice roots and two stones to sink them
Purified tap water.
Plants
EasyLife ProFito Liquid Fert.

Here are some pics from the set-up process

How it all started









Both Layers









Pouring out and flattening.









Strange colors from same bags of Elos. Strange..









Five Bags later


















Some decorations









Full me up with 240 Lit' of Purified H2O please..









Some impression from the tube colors'.









Platoon! Atte-ention!








(I'd appreaciate help with identifying all plants)

All planted aside of the Vales'









Found these "water lenses" inside the bucket after finishing. Put them to use later.









All Planted









Even got pearling after a few Hours!








(Also a quicktime Video of that..)

After a week in army, got back to the horrific facts of a planted tank!

Some plants started to wither and got algae









Other parsley-like plant That seem to have grown so well it's already old (Brown-yellow)









Sagittarius partially dying..









On the bright side..
A few new leafs of something (Sag. Maybe?) have grown!









And the happy water lens









A few questions


does the dust from the Elos (LINK) Causes them stress? should I take a risk, take the out and shake them to get rid of it?
Should i add more fast growing plants?
Do I have enough light to grow Sag? a third of it is already withering.
What's the water change routine is should execute?
EasyLife instruct to put 100Ml for each 100L per Week (very concentrated). Can i avoid Fertilizing for the first few weeks?
Lights are on for 12 Hours per day and temp is set to 27. Should i change something?
Should i move certain plants to the middle so they'd get better light?
How do i deal with the algae? should i rip out infected plants?

Thanks A lot guys.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Your fertilizer lacks N and P. That's one of the problems with the plants. The micros and K being dosed without N and P is feeding the algae. You might also reduce the photoperiod to 8-9 hours to start with and increase after things have settled if you want. 

Regarding your tank size, Does R240 mean 240 litres or 240 gallons? I'm curious as to the Watts per Gallon.

-Dave


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

davemonkey said:


> Your fertilizer lacks N and P. That's one of the problems with the plants. The micros and K being dosed without N and P is feeding the algae. You might also reduce the photoperiod to 8-9 hours to start with and increase after things have settled if you want.
> 
> Regarding your tank size, Does R240 mean 240 litres or 240 gallons? I'm curious as to the Watts per Gallon.
> 
> -Dave


Hey.
As a friend told me, the EasyLife ProFito contains all micro and macro elements so i shouldn't have a problem with marcos (N & P are macros as i recall..)

When i get home i'll take another look at the bottle's ingredient's and report.

If the fertilizer does lack the N & P, what's the best solution for now?
Should i buy a Macro fertilizers like Seachem's?

By the way, wouldn't water exchanges be a good idea against the algae?

The Rio 240 has 240 Liters.

Thanks A lot.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

I read link for the EasyLife and it said it provides all micros and Potassium, allowing the uptake of "unwanted" N and P.

_"...The presence of high concentrations of especially iron, potassium and magnesium in ProFito...consists of many additional socalled micronutrients such as manganese, boron, cobalt, lithium, molybdenum, copper, tin, nickel, fluorine, iodine, aluminium, zinc, selenium and vanadium. These substances in combination with a number of rare minerals give the plants just what they need to grow up easily....The supply of nutrients in ProFito is so optimal, that plants will grow fast and strong. Thus *unwanted compounds in the aquarium, like certain nitrogen and phosphate compounds*, will be taken up by plants quicker...ProFito does not contain nitrate or phosphate."_

The problem there is that N and P are not "unwanted" in a planted tank, they are necessary. And plants will not grow "fast and strong" without a source of N and P to compliment the other nutrients. You can suplement N and P with Seachem's liquid ferts ( "Flourish Nitrogen" and "Flourish Phosphorus" ) .

The best way to combat algae is to provide a healthy environment for your plants. Good nutrition, carbon (CO2 or other) and lighting (which will dictate how much ferts to use) .

-Dave


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

davemonkey said:


> I read link for the EasyLife and it said it provides all micros and Potassium, allowing the uptake of "unwanted" N and P.
> 
> _"...The presence of high concentrations of especially iron, potassium and magnesium in ProFito...consists of many additional socalled micronutrients such as manganese, boron, cobalt, lithium, molybdenum, copper, tin, nickel, fluorine, iodine, aluminium, zinc, selenium and vanadium. These substances in combination with a number of rare minerals give the plants just what they need to grow up easily....The supply of nutrients in ProFito is so optimal, that plants will grow fast and strong. Thus *unwanted compounds in the aquarium, like certain nitrogen and phosphate compounds*, will be taken up by plants quicker."_
> 
> ...


Hey Dave!
Thanks for the thorough insight!
What you mean to say is that my fertilizer causes the plants to consume and actually to devour on Nitrogen and Phosphorus much quicker than what they should?
Maybe it's just EasyLifes's "promotion", and not the true process that takes place in reality?
Hard to believe that professionals like EasyLife would create a fertilizers that act that way..

_"The best way to combat algae is to provide a healthy environment for your plants. Good nutrition, carbon (CO2 or other) and lighting (which will dictate how much ferts to use)."_

You mean i should continue Fertilizing (maybe with another product) and change light-routine and/or intensity?
What would you recommend?

Thanks.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Something to condiser:

Does your substrate provide any nutrients (like Aquasoil) or is it mostly inert? I'm not familiar with Elos Terra.


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

The Elos is considered a very good substrate around here (right after ADA products).
It lowers PH.
Unfortunetly they don't have a website so the only think i'm left here is with the package. I'll check it when i get home..

Anyway, remember the the first layer i put in is Sera Floredepot.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

The setup of a planted tank and the problems you might encounter with algae and plant growth is somewhat different than one someone has a problem after the tank has matured. Dave hit on a few of your issues, but basically IMO your running your lights two long, you don't have enough plants and your not using or it doesn't appear that your using co2. Even if you were running co2, I suspect you would've had problems because of your light duration. Elos substrate system does leach N/P into the water similiar to AS. I don't think you'll get any argument that when you start up a tank some of the best things to do are:

-Run your lights no more than 7 hrs
-Have co2 running steadily
-Use mulm under substrate or seed your filter with mature biomedia
-Use carbon and/or purigen in the filter media
-If possible, use a large amount of plants
-No livestock 
-Don't disturb substrate
-Do regular waterchanges


If you do all these things from my experience you will greatly reduce your chances of issues at startup. Startup to me is the first month. Also plants don't do much when first placed and many existing leaves that are slightly damagaged will die off. The more you trim the more growth you will get.


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

davemonkey said:


> I read link for the EasyLife and it said it provides all micros and Potassium, allowing the uptake of "unwanted" N and P.
> 
> The problem there is that N and P are not "unwanted" in a planted tank, they are necessary. And plants will not grow "fast and strong" without a source of N and P to compliment the other nutrients. You can suplement N and P with Seachem's liquid ferts ( "Flourish Nitrogen" and "Flourish Phosphorus" ) .
> 
> ...


That said, shorten light periods and adding Excel and NPK, what else can i do?

BTW, do you thing adding live bacteria from an already running external filter do well for me?



davemonkey said:


> Something to condiser:
> 
> Does your substrate provide any nutrients (like Aquasoil) or is it mostly inert? I'm not familiar with Elos Terra.


Hey,
Yes it seems to provide nutrients!
Here is a link the the product's page.



houseofcards said:


> The setup of a planted tank and the problems you might encounter with algae and plant growth is somewhat different than one someone has a problem after the tank has matured. Dave hit on a few of your issues, but basically IMO your running your lights two long, you don't have enough plants and your not using or it doesn't appear that your using co2. Even if you were running co2, I suspect you would've had problems because of your light duration. Elos substrate system does leach N/P into the water similiar to AS. I don't think you'll get any argument that when you start up a tank some of the best things to do are:
> 
> -Run your lights no more than 7 hrs
> -Have co2 running steadily
> ...


houseofcards, I currently a livestock have 3 small fish: two tetras and one Zebra Danio for starters.
Why is it bad?

About filtering with carbon - wouldn't it suck up all the nutrients from the fertilizers and make plants even weaker than they are now?

Do you think the Elos substrate's nutritional characters deny the need to buy and use NPK fertilizers?
Also you should know that CO2 is currently not an option since I'm not around the tank for around 4 days a week..
But from Dave's and your comments, I'm getting the notion the there is no way of dealing with a low-tech tank without algae taking over..

Thank you so much.


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## Farmboy (Feb 7, 2008)

Oh, don't give up! It isn't all that uncommon to have an algae flush in a new setup. I think that the concern with adding critters is that the tank hasn't cycled yet (NH3-NO2-NO3). You can speed that process up a little by using CYCLE or another product to seed the necessary bacteria. Increase the number of fish very slowly and you should be OK.
Your floaters do a great job of sucking up excess nutrients and they multiply like crazy. One problem that they do create is the they also suck up the light that your other plants need and you don't have any to much of that as it is, so you will have to keep it thinned. BTW, running fewer watts of light for more hours is not a substitute for more watts. One of your bulbs looks rather blue, you might be better off with both bulbs in the 6700K range.
As far as you rooted plants looking bad, that happens to me from time to time also. I think that it has to do with a major difference in the water parameters of where they were raised to whatever yours are. The top will end up looking like a ratty piece of crap and then you will start to notice healthy looking new growth around the base. At least that has been my experience. I have only tried sags in one tank and they took forever to amount to much, but they are finally starting to look good and multiply. Oh, those look like vals in your picture, they probablely aren't gonna like the EXCEL. As far as the sprouts, I had the same thing happen in one of my tanks where I used SCHULTZ AQUA SOIL as a substrate. I thought maybe I got a few weed seeds in it while I was rinsing it. They didn't last.
Keep researching and asking questions. Setting up a new tank can really be a test of patience, they get easier with each one you do. Anyway, good luck on the project, I'll watch for your posts.
Hey, nice looking wood


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Okay, it sounds like the substrate plus the liquids you're adding is giving enough ferts. Flourish excel migth cut it for a carbon source. I would definitely cut down the light to about 7 hrs to start with, and maybe even 5 hrs on the days you are away (if you have a timer) . After a couple months you can gradually bring that time up (in 30-min intervals per week) . Also, some fast growing stem plants will do much good in helping the fight against algae since they are heavier feeders.


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

Okay I've done some changes and "armed" myself with new weapons during the last week.
Some of the plants rotted and I'm sure if the reason is algae or just inadequate conditions..
What do you think?
Anyway, the changes I've made help fight the algae very well, for now:


40% water change
 almost all the plants taken out, dipped in 4% bleach and aquarium water solution, then rinsed in a bucket with aquarium water and Prime.
Filter's Perlon swapped.
Many dead leafs manually picked up.
Lighting time were shorten to 8 hours (with a timer).
New plants bought.
Hungry molee fish (not sure what the name in in English) and Siamese algae eater added
Bought and fertilized with Seachem's NPK and Excel. Also bough today Seachem Iron, Dosed once.
Bought algae-killing-powder as "doomsday weapon". not using for now.

*I should mention that no Micro Fert (EasyLife Profito) was added for more than a week since algea bloomed right after. Uncertain if in fact that was the reason, i chose to cut on the Micro for now.*

Man At Work


















New buds of growth?









Vales. lost in battle..









What are these plants (next two photos)?


















Overall image









For some reason I'm getting the feeling that I'm struggling to hard for just plain, normal growth..
Other tanks with weaker light set-ups and inferior substrate don't have plants like Sagittarius dying like mine..

Happy to hear out everyone's advice!
Thanks.


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## Fishtory (Jan 21, 2009)

Hi Equinox,
I think you have to use more patience. 

You will have poor growth, brown leaves, and algae for a few weeks or even a few months. Then everything will settle down and you won't have to work so hard. It is a biological system that you are trying to create -- and nature takes longer than we want it to.

Good luck!


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

Fishtory said:


> Hi Equinox,
> I think you have to use more patience.
> 
> You will have poor growth, brown leaves, and algae for a few weeks or even a few months. Then everything will settle down and you won't have to work so hard. It is a biological system that you are trying to create -- and nature takes longer than we want it to.
> ...


Thanks for the advice..

Some changes made!
Took out the Anacharis. It grew very strange:
It grew higher and the roots (after taking it out, i saw) spread widely, but the leafs and the stem got sparse!
It could be the Excel. Be happy to hear your opinion.

Received some Vallisneria Spiralis (Huge amount!!) and spent about 2.5 hours planting it..
It set for a week in a bucket outside the donor's aquarium, but I hope it'll recover and do well.

Full outlook 









Three best growing plants in the tank
The green one growing between the driftwood's stems got a reddish color in the higher leafs! When I bought it, it was fully green..








_(I'd be happy if someone refer me the their profiles as I don't know what their called)_

Hope the Vallisneria Spiralis will take over the tank. The regular type grew poorly..









Do you think I should risk by dosing Excel?
Afraid the Vallisneria would react bad to it..

I'd be glad if you answer some of my questions. Plain comments will also be welcomed!
Thanks.


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## uglybuckling (Jun 28, 2004)

Your tank is already starting to look more healthy. Also, those pieces of driftwood are gorgeous. 

An analogy I like for planted tanks is that it's kind of like driving a car on a highway--you can go 30 miles an hour and avoid all the pot-holes, and eventually get where you're going, but it'll take awhile. You can go 65 miles an hour and bounce around and swerve a little but still keep control if you pay attention, and get wherever you're going a little faster. But try to go 120 miles an hour and you will fly off the embankment into a ditch. Nothing great happens fast, only bad things happen fast. 

The green plant growing between the driftwood's stems, that recently turned a more red color toward the top, looks to me like Ludwigia repens. If it gets enough iron and a lot of light, this plant can be grown to be a very pretty red color. 

The one in front of it, with pink on its leaves, does not look like an aquatic plant to me. It might be a terrestrial plant that a fish store decided to sell as an aquarium plant. This happens sometimes, and it never ceases to irritate me. You wouldn't try to raise a terrestrial CAT in your fishtank, why would you put a terrestrial plant in there? 

I won't offer an opinion about Excel, since I've never really used the stuff for anything except killing algae.


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

uglybuckling said:


> Your tank is already starting to look more healthy. Also, those pieces of driftwood are gorgeous.
> 
> An analogy I like for planted tanks is that it's kind of like driving a car on a highway--you can go 30 miles an hour and avoid all the pot-holes, and eventually get where you're going, but it'll take awhile. You can go 65 miles an hour and bounce around and swerve a little but still keep control if you pay attention, and get wherever you're going a little faster. But try to go 120 miles an hour and you will fly off the embankment into a ditch. Nothing great happens fast, only bad things happen fast.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the support..

A small update:

Red Ludwigia Repens








How do i propogate this?

Corry Family









Male Remirez


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## NeonFlux (May 15, 2008)

Nice start up! I completely agree with the others


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

Hey guys,
A lot of changes took place since entering this hobby.
I'm still developing and learning a lot.
It's important, in my opinion to be able to tell all the hardships I've been through and I will attempt too. But.. Until I do and until the tank fully matures, I'd like to share some "teasers".. Questions and comments are welcomed.

P.S. sorry for the dirty glass (water stains etc').


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