# Barr report to good to be true



## redturk (Apr 17, 2006)

I had such high hopes when I read about the EI method of fertilization. I have a 55 gallon tank and three discus and 4 cardinals and a red tail tetra. 
Previously I had the tank setup ala Diana Walsted with soil substrate. I grew hugh amazon swords and healthy crypts. 
However I wanted a pool sand substrate and broke down the tank added the pool sand,a large piece of driftwood which I attached an Anubus and still had the amazons and crypts. 
I initally added the potasium nitrate and mono potasuim phosphate to my non co2 tank. I also added Flourish Excel to help in the carbon uptake
Immediately I had a hugh outbreak of filamentous algae. 
This has happened over and over. Even when I do a massive water change and after a week add a pinch of potasium nitrate and a tiny amount of the mono potasuim phosphate,I get an outbreak of the filamentous algae and black algae on some dead leaves.
I feel like this is the story of the emerpors new clothes.. I have keep fish and plants and never have been as frustrated. 
We have hard water in my area but I do not think it is a factor.I would appreciate any input.
redturk


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## bigstick120 (Mar 8, 2005)

In my opinion EI is for high light tanks with CO2 injection. How much light do you have over the 55. Get some CO2 going, even DIY and see if it helps out. I would be willing to bet this is the problem. Excel in a 55 will get very expensive and you might as well just go pressurized


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

My first thought was CO2, also. But, the amount of light you must have been using with the Walsted method doesn't seem like enough to require CO2. If you had minor algae growths before, then added ferts, I would expect the algae to grow fast. They like ferts too. I think you have to remove any existing algae before going to the EI method, especially if you add more light too.


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## zeek (Jan 5, 2005)

Hopefully this isn't too far off-topic, but what's the deal with Tom these days anyway? It appears that he hasn't distributed his monthly "Barr Report" in several months now. I'm a subscriber (until October of this year) and even on his site I think June was the last one.

A few weeks ago I returned to this board after a long hiatus, to find that he had some fit with a member and deleted nearly all of his posts here last May! I can deal with the fact that he's a little rough around the edges and has a tendency to offend- but I thought that was a bit childish. The offending member only responded when Tom attacked, and his response was basically "it's not what you say it's how you say it".

Isaac


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## BSS (May 2, 2006)

IME, it's a matter of balance. I, too, backed away from changing fert regimines in the past because of instant algae growth. But, eventually, I decided to do the change, stick with it for a few weeks and the algae would eventually subside. As Hoppy suggests, the algae will use the new ferts, and they are likely more agile to make use of them more quickly. You need to let you plants and tank adjust to the new levels before the plants can once again start 'outcompeting' the algae and at that time, the algae will start to subside.

So, I'd suggest to make the change, give it 3 weeks, and then decide on a new change of course. But, don't ask me how often I've been able to wait three weeks  .

Brian.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Hey redturk,

Three questions for you...

1. Did you increase your light levels when switching over your tank?

2. How much light do you have over your tank?

3. Are you using Tom's EI method for *non-CO2 tanks*?

There are two methods of the Estimative Index, one for high light CO2 tanks and one for lower light, non-CO2 tanks.

As stated by Hoppy, the algae use the same nutrients as the plants, they just grow faster  Large water changes to non-CO2 tanks tend to promote algae also. A water change can temporarily introduce higher levels of CO2 and other gasses into the tank and is covered in a little more depth in Tom's article, Non-CO2 Methods

Try and have a little patience with the tank and skip the water changes for a while. I have a 10g tank that has not had a water change in over 18 months now and hasn't had a filter on it for more than a month. It has declined a bit since the filter died but the plants are still growing


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## turnstile (Oct 23, 2005)

Well, why not just stop adding NO3 and PO4 altogether? I have a tank with about 4wpg and CO2 and I add neither and my tank is looking a lot better than it did when I was following EI. I can't say my tank is completely free of algae but I have much less than I have had before and what's left looks like it's on its way out as well. Not to mention that my plants' growth is by far better (albeit a bit slower, which is bette ras I don't like trimming that much). 

With Discus in the tank and their feeding habits you probably have enough NO3 and PO4 anyway and K might be the only thing you need to add when macros are consdiered. I know it works for me.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

turnstile said:


> Well, why not just stop adding NO3 and PO4 altogether? I have a tank with about 4wpg and CO2 and I add neither and my tank is looking a lot better than it did when I was following EI. I can't say my tank is completely free of algae but I have much less than I have had before and what's left looks like it's on its way out as well. Not to mention that my plants' growth is by far better (albeit a bit slower, which is bette ras I don't like trimming that much).
> 
> With Discus in the tank and their feeding habits you probably have enough NO3 and PO4 anyway and K might be the only thing you need to add when macros are consdiered. I know it works for me.


This may be a good idea depending on how often and how much you feed your Discus. If you are growing them out and feeding many times per day you will probably be able to get by without ferts.

In my opinion, it is alwyas better to provide a bit moe than the plants can use rather than limit your fertilizers. With Discus, I imagine you are doing at least one large water change per week. The link I gave you to Tom's article on Non-CO2 tanks does recommend not doing water changes to avoid constantly changing levels of CO2 in your tank. However, by doing water changes with "aged" water, you should be able to still do water changes in a Discus tank and not introduce higher levels of CO2 by using "aged" and outgassed water.


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