# [Wet Thumb Forum]-ways to make plants red



## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

I understand there are different ways of getting red plants redder based on nutrients, but it varies from plant to plant more or less.
What are the different methods or combinations for doing this? Is it KN03? Phosphate? or something else? Iron? Light?

Robert
King admin
www.aquabotanic.com


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## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

As far as I know, some geneticists will pick the plants with higher counts of red pigment; erythronin(?)from a given population of same plants, and simply propagate from it to get more progeny with the desired pigmentation. This is what I learned in Botany in college. Maybe there are faster ways of making this possible.


Paul


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Thats interesting. But what about in the aquarium? Iron makes some plants darker red. Light intensity makes some plants darker red. Has anyone found any examples of this?

Robert
King admin
www.aquabotanic.com


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## imported_Art_Giacosa (Nov 29, 2003)

To the extent a plant has a propensity to be red in color (e.g., rotala macranda), providing it with proper nutrition will ensure good color.

As for other plants, chlorophyll usually masks other color pigments caused by carotanoids and flavinoids. Typically, anthocyanins are red in color and are responsible for the reds you see in the autumn leaves.

Regards,

Art


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## Astrid (Sep 20, 2003)

In my tank it is mostly light, which makes the plants red. I havent used PMDD for two months and only some tablets of Sera Florenette A were added to roots of some plants recently. Didiplis diandra really seemed to need it because of the black dying stems. Now it is getting much better and bright orange tops are appearing on that black ones. But didiplis is the only plant in my tank that could not live properly without adding any fertilizer.
So back to the red color of the plants. I have 150 Watts in my 55 gal tank and hygrophila polysperma which is in my low-light-tank green, is here orange.

Hygrophila polysperma together with Limnophila sessiflora.









Hygrophila polysperma under relatively low light. NO addition of CO2!









In my tank are also other plants orange, pink or red: ludwigia arcuata and mullerti, rotala rotundifolia and tops of limnophila sessiflora, didiplis diandra and bacopa caroliniana. I added some my pictures of these plants to the Plant database.


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## Pantanal (Jan 27, 2004)

Based on Christel Kasselmann's book I have done some trials first using four 20W PL 6500K bulbs in a 13 gallons tank and later a combination of three 20W PL 6500K bulbs and one 20W PL 2700K bulb.
The combination of bulbs with different color temperatures resulted in much more redder plants, specially rotala macrandra, ludwigia Pantanal and ludwigia glandulosa.
All other parameters have been kept, pH, lightning period, no liquid fertilization, etc..


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

ALL my red plants get reder with higher light

My Ludwigia glandulosa, even under high light (lower light it goes greenish and leavesdrop), will be nitrate dependent. High nitrate and I get pinkish-red leaves, and really low nitrate and I get purple.

I haven;t notices an iron dependence so far with my plants


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

I think the type of light has more to do with it than the amount of light. Since changing tubes and moving things around, my sunset hygro is a pale pink like the image above in my 4WPG tank, yet it's a bold pink in my low light tank (1.2WPG):










Amixture of ludwigia in the same tank:









BTW this tank is running GE9325K bulbs. Before that it was running Coralife 6700K and 10000K bulbs and colors were not as evident. There was a link someone submitted a little while ago showing the difference between the same plant grown under different bulbs in the same tank. Being the only difference, it was clear that the lights used in his case were the sole reason for the difference in plant color. If I find the link I'll post it.

During my experimenting with nutrient levels I found that high phosphate levels brought out the reds in my high light tank more than any other nutrient. Reduction of NO3 also seemed like it brough out a little more color but not as much. The following photos were taken while PO4 levels were above 1ppm:



















Neither plant has been so colorful since I brought the PO4 level back down. I experimented with levels up to 2ppm without too many problems, but I wouldn't keep a tank running at such a level all the time. Just to get some more colors before a photo shoot.

I also tried PO4 in the substrate and it had similar effects, but I don't normally add too many macros to the substrate so I only did it once.

I have not done similar tests on my low light tank but I do use a lot of flourish tabs in the substrate as the sole nutrient source other than waste and water changes, these tabs have a high amount of phosphate so it could be because of that.

Giancarlo Podio

[This message was edited by Giancarlo Podio on Tue December 30 2003 at 08:24 AM.]


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## clay (Jul 3, 2004)

great pictures. i want you to take pics of mine.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Giancarlo,

I notice your hygro is real close to the water surface, almost floating! Do you get the same results from cuttings much closer to the substrate and further away from the light?

Robert
King admin
www.aquabotanic.com


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## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

When the tank overgrows, like the photos above, the plants that are shadowed do get greener, but the tips of the plant still remains redder than it does in my high light tank. You can see it better in these pics:

Pruned:
http://www.gpodio.com/gallery/tank15.jpg

Mid way:
http://www.gpodio.com/gallery/tank4.jpg

Overgrown:
http://www.gpodio.com/gallery/tank14.jpg

Shadowed area:
http://www.gpodio.com/gallery/scene55.jpg

(I placed links to the pics to not make this page too heavy to load up)

So yes, it does brighten up as it gets closer to the light but I can only think of the type of light and the differences in fertilization between my high light tank and this tank that could be the real cause. NO3 is also low in the water column of this tank. It may be a combination of both too, I've tried bringing nitrates down in the high light tank and it didn't have the same effect. I will however be replacing the bulbs in my high light tank with the same GE bulbs used here when time comes, that will give me a chance to compare the two better.

Regards
Giancarlo Podio


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## imported_Ghazanfar Ghori (Jan 31, 2003)

Low NO3 or NO3 deficiency will bring out the
reds but don't do this for long since it'll
results in unhealthy plants. Some folks will
do that just to get the color out before taking
a picture.

-
Ghazanfar Ghori


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## tsunami06 (Feb 6, 2003)

I have noticed that you have to couple the
low NO3 (>5ppm) with high PO4 (~2ppm) to
get the reddest coloration. Also, good 
iron/micronutrient levels help considerably
when doing it. However, as Ghazanfar said, I
find it hard to keep levels like that for more
than a week before the plants start to look
sickly. Probably impossible to do this trick
for long in any tank with 3 w/g+ of PC lighting.
Too unstable.

It's easier to keep the colors intense at 
2-3 w/g because nutrient uptake is slower and
you can keep specific nutrient levels
more easily without testing every other day.
You may even get away without dosing macros
in the water column and let the tank run lean
without any problems because the plants aren't
being pushed as hard by the light to suck up
more nutrients to produce new leaves, stems, etc.

I could grow blood red Rotala wallichii and
bright pink Bacopa caroliniana at 1.75 w/g
PC. I didn't need to dose any macros, and the
plants all grew well. Nutrient levels were
0.2 ppm PO4 and about 5 ppm NO3 because of
the fish load.

I couldn't at 3.75 w/g PC without hurting the
plants. Tried to dose just enough macros to
get these levels, but the plants would suck
it all up within hours and then stunt, burn,
complain, etc overnight most of the time.
Everything was very green most of the time.

This trick works really well with reddish
Rotalas and Ludwigias. Doesn't work for plants
like Alternanthera.

I haven't noticed that more intense light gets
me redder plants. I haven't noticed that using
Aquarays got me redder plants or using
Tritons. I am noticing though that URI Aquasuns
are giving me redder Rotalas and Ludwigias
(flourescent pink). The Ludwigia repens 
especially reddened up from an olive color
to a rose red within a week (not changing 
anything else). Let's see if this keeps up.








Tank runs on 3.95 w/g. Deep substrate of
Fertiplant capped with Eco-complete (this
may be a factor). Dose Fe, micros, moderate
amounts of K+, and minute amounts of P and N.
The bulb was recommended to me by a friend who uses URI Aquasuns and has amazingly red Ammania,
Limnophila aromatica, etc.

Carlos

-------------------------
"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced." -- Van Gogh


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> The bulb was recommended to me by a friend who uses URI Aquasuns and has amazingly red Ammania,Limnophila aromatica, etc.


Carlos,
I found this today on APD.

_From Triton to Aquasuns_

_IMHO, you can expect lots of problems! Why switch? Aquasuns are very bright to start out and go "down hill" rapidly! Save your money and don't change._
*Merrill Cohen*

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Regards,
Jay Luto


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Merill Cohen...he passed away a few months ago. Nice guy. He was the founder of Aquarium products/aquatronics if I remember right. He bought plants from me a couple times.

I used Aquasun VHOs for a while, switched to PCs.

Robert
King admin
www.aquabotanic.com


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

I have a large Nuphar japonica var formosa, that is supposed to be red/orange. The plant is growing bigger, and all but one leaf is green. One leaf is orange. I am trying to figure out what I can do to get this plant to color up more.

The substrate is just plain Profile. I have nitrate at about 10 ppm. Light is over 3watts/gallon.

Robert
King admin
www.aquabotanic.com


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## Shane A smith (Jun 15, 2003)

Put a jobes house plant stick under it. My plants seemed more colorful when i had jobes sticks under them.

50gal 160watts PC 6500k Clay Substrate.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Just thought I would post an update to what I think about this topic. LIGHT,LIGHT,LIGHT. I upgraded form 3 wpg to 4.5 wpg over my 10 gallon and in the past week everything has colored up a great deal. I have no substrate ferts, NO3 around 5, P around I dont know but probably a litttle high. I dose KNP3, K2SO4, and sere florena. I know that my Fe is always below .1 and my tank was in the dark for 3 days prior to the light upr\grade. I have added no ferts in the past week and already the didiplis and repens and red wendtii are much redder than ever before.

Just thought I would add my two cents.

Dennis Dietz

http://webpages.charter.net/ddeitz4843/index.htm


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

I thought I would see if anyone here wants to continue this conversation. I think it is very relevant information, and I have been trying to compile information based on people's experiences for the last two years, but I keep putting the project aside and forgetting about it.

Any more people here who have intentionally tried to manipulate the enviornment to produce more intense red coloration in their plants? What has worked or not worked?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I can only report my plants own manipulating of the environment. They grow. I have consistently found that plants normally seen to be red in aquariums only become so when they get into the upper reaches of the tank, closer to the light. In fact I now have Ludwigia senegalensis, growing with 1.6 watts per gallon. It stays mostly green with just a hint of reddish color, and slow growth until it gets to very near the top of the tank, right under the light. Then it grows horizontal across the tank, fairly rapidly and very red. It does this consistently. I also have Polygonum sp. 'Kawagoneum', which stays fairly green until it reaches about the top third of the tank, where it gets brilliantly red leaves. I am ready to say light is the driving factor in plant color, at least for those two.

Let me add another plant to that: I have Hemigraphis traian in the same tank. The leaves don't acquire the beautiful purple color until they are in the upper quarter or so of the tank. And, those that I had planted not directly under the light never acquire that color.


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