# How to make Rotala Macrandra grow



## kekon

Some time ago i purchased some specimens of this plant and put it into my tank. Unfortunately it didn't grow at all. I watched it dying day by day. It lost its rich red color, the tips got dwarfed. Being aware of too high NO3 levels and too low K that cause stunting i dosed little NO3 and much K. Also, Ca and Mg were under control. It was all in vein, the plant looked ugly. Because i use only RO water i know what amounts of nutrients are added into the tank. The micro fert i used had the same amount of boron and zinc. I decided to double boron content and started to dose. (now, it's 0.008 ppm Zn and 0.015 ppm B weekly)
Within a week Macrandra "woke up" and started to grow ! Now it grows very fast and have rich red colors. Then i set boron and zinc dose to 1:1 ration. The plant still grew but not as fast as before. I set B:Zn to 2:1 again and the plant began to grow fast again. So, it seems that the cause of bad healh of this plant was too little boron. However, one has to be very careful when adding more boron - this nutrient is very easy to overdose and become toxic to other plants !


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## BryceM

Kekon,

It's good to see you. R. macranda is certainly a demanding plant. Your observations about boron are interesting. Most of us in the hobby just assume that our particular micro mix will supply the correct amount of all of the traces. It's probably good to be reminded that not all assumptions are always accurate.


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## Bert H

Great observation, Kekon. Do you add this via boric acid?


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## kekon

Yes, i use only boric acid as a source of boron. When i was watching different tap-water contents reports i found there were different concentrations of boron - from 0.008 ppm to 0.1 ppm.


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## Avalon

Interesting observation. I'm a little hesitant to say it's Boron since there are so many other factors that it could be. I keep this plant in RO water and find it very easy to grow. My only source of B & Zn is Tropica's Plant Nutrition Liquid. Interestingly, it has exactly a 2:1 (B:Zn) ratio. Hmmm...


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## BryceM

I grow it under MH lighting in reconstituted RO water with Tropica's micros too. Same result as Avalon - it grows pretty well. At times, it even becomes a nuisance.


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## suaojan

My experience with Rotala Macrandra is that it needs a large amount of light and CO2. In good conditions, you'll see lots of pearls under the leaves of R. Macrandra.


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## HeyPK

Of all the micronutrients, except possibly iron, boron deficiency has occurred the most frequently for me. I have seen it when I was in Massachusetts, Wisconsin, and, now, central Mississippi. Boron deficiency is always a possibility when one gets stunted tips and/or roots. Calcium and iron should also be considered. I don't think I have ever seen zinc deficiency. Perhaps my regular micronutrient dose takes care of zinc needs.


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## Bert H

Kekon, with the toxicity of Boron being what it is, exactly how much would you add to a given volume of water? How much of a margin of error is there with this element?

This topic has come up in the past. A while ago I bought a bottle of boric acid, but never did use it, so I am curious. Thanks.


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## HeyPK

Burt, What is the concentration of the boric acid? I made up some 0.1molar boric acid (6.2g/L) and I add 1 ml of that per gallon of tank water. This cures boron deficiency for a very long time, and I have not seen any toxicity symptoms.


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## Edward

..... 1997, CSM+B ..... (B as Boron)


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## Bert H

HeyPK said:


> Burt, What is the concentration of the boric acid? I made up some 0.1molar boric acid (6.2g/L) and I add 1 ml of that per gallon of tank water. This cures boron deficiency for a very long time, and I have not seen any toxicity symptoms.


It's powder, so I could make the 0.1M solution accordingly also. Do you add this with weekly water changes?


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## HeyPK

I would add 1 cc of this mix for every gallon of new water put into the tank. If you don't change water frequently, this level of boron lasts a long time, somewhere around 4 - 6 months.


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## Bert H

Thanks Paul. I will give this a try.


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## Zapins

Hmm, time to dredge this old thread up 

I think I am also experiencing boron deficiency in my R. Mac. The leaf edges are neatly curled, the plant tip is stunted as in N deficiency (which is definitely not the problem), the stem is VERY brittle and the whole plant looks dark. I think this is boron deficiency! I have never before had this deficiency, so bizarre! I'll grab some new trace ferts and see if it fixes the problem.

Boron deficiency:
In plants with poor boron mobility, boron deficiency results in necrosis of meristematic tissues in the growing region, leading to loss of apical dominance and the development of a rosette condition. These deficiency symptoms are similar to those caused by calcium deficiency. In plants in which boron is readily transported in the phloem, the deficiency symptoms localize in the mature tissues, similar to those of nitrogen and potassium. Both the pith and the epidermis of stems may be affected, often resulting in hollow or roughened stems along with necrotic spots on the fruit. The leaf blades develop a pronounced crinkling and there is a darkening and crackling of the petioles often with exudation of syrupy material from the leaf blade. The leaves are unusually brittle and tend to break easily. Also, there is often a wilting of the younger leaves even under an adequate water supply, pointing to a disruption of water transport caused by boron deficiency.

From: http://4e.plantphys.net/article.php?ch=t&id=289


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## kekon

I experienced boron and zinc deficiency when using TMG and RO water. Zinc deficiency appeared on Aromatica and boron just on Macrandra. It happened several times.
Usually adding 0.02 ppm of B and Zn solved the problem within a week.


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## Zapins

Are there any easy places to get boron? Can I buy it from a pharmacy or some other shop or will I have to get it online? 

I have been using a very old batch of CSM+B which I suspect either never had enough boron or did when I first bought it and then the boron has become unavailable to plants. I am not sure if boron fouls with time like iron does when exposed to light. I think I never got boron problems before since my old house must have had enough boron in the well water. My new house however... doesn't seem to have a good amount.


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## ashappard

kekon said:


> I experienced boron and zinc deficiency when using TMG and RO water.


hmm. never experienced that. Did you try increasing the dose of TMG? Is your GH good?
my macrandras do fine, 100% RODI and TMG for traces. I add ca/mg in proper ratio to get 4GH after water change.


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## AEWHistory

Anyone consider a Potassium deficiency? I could be wrong, but it sounds like this might fit if I'm not mixing up the signals....


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## Zapins

Yep, not K deficiency for me. Dosed with KNO3, KH2PO4 and K2SO4. Also dosed CaCl and MgSO4. I just need to find out where to get boron from now.

By the way, is boric acid powder ok to use? I see on ebay it is being sold as an insect/bug killer. Would this be ok to put in the tank or is there some other place that I should look for the correct stuff?


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi Zapins,

You may not be old enough, but there is a laundry additive (now made by Dial) called 20 Mule Team Borax which is Borax. Borax is a white crystaline salt that contains 11.3% boron. I don't know what dosage to recommend, but it may be an easy obtainable source of Boron for your plants.


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## Zapins

Never heard of it before 

I'll check my local shop to see if they have any. So its just pure borax and water - tank safe and all?


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi Zapens,

20 Mule Team Borax is a powder, and according to posts I have found it is 99.5% borax. Borax is used to correct boron deficiencies in soil. Apparently it doesn't take much.....sorry I do not have a dosage suggestion but I would start very, very, slowly.


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## Zapins

Hmm ok, I'll try pick some up tomorrow when I go grocery shopping. I'll have to do some number crunching to figure out the molar weight and what it all translates to in terms of ppm in my 55g. I'll take kekon's dosage of 0.02 ppm to be the target. I think I'll add 0.02 initially and then a few days later maybe 4-5 days later I'll add another 0.02 ppm so the plants can stockpile the initial dose and then have a reserve to draw on for the next few weeks.


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi Zapins,

Keep us posted, let us know how things progress! If a boron deficiency is similar to my Ca deficiency problem it takes about a week for me to start seeing improvement in the new leaves.


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi Zapins,

Here are some of the links I used:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax

Borax MSDS: http://www.manchestercitysch.org/centraloffice/MSDS/20%20Mule%20Team%20Borax%20Natural%20Laundry%20Booster%20-%20Dial%20Corp..pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boron_deficiency_(plant_disorder)"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boron_deficiency_(plant_disorder)/wiki/Boron[/URL]


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## hooha

fyi, I looked over the weekend for Boric acid at the pharmacy - found it in near the ear and eye products, right beside the gylcerin bottle


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## nfrank

this observation about B is very interesting. 
I have always had best luck with growing this plant in slow growing conditions which typically had lower light levels ... like 80 watts ( 2 linear 40w bulbs) over a 65g tank....also low N. This is obviously much different than the sometimes seen recommendation of high light to make this plant flourish.

In fact, high light can accelerate trace element defiiciencies.

Sometimes i would transfer nice macrandra specimens to high light tanks and the leaves would turn green. I had assumed it was due to the ratio of macros. I have used Tropica fertilizer for the past 15 years. It has 0.004% B. Maybe this was not enough for Rotala in the plant community in that higher light tank.

In higher light, however,i have had good success when using a soil substrate. More recently, that includes ADA AquaSoil which has provided me with some of the best rotala i have ever seen. These substrates may be providing adequate supply of certain trace elements (in combo with the TMG).


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## Zapins

I just found my old results.

These were the chemicals in my tank at the time I experienced problems with boron deficiency. These are in mg/l (or ppm if you like). I took other nutrient levels as well, but they are less important in my opinion (see further down if you are interested).

Three trials were run on each of the following tank water samples and averaged for the results below, except the room tank, which had one trial so it is the least accurate. I used a spectroscopy machine in the chemistry department at my old school.

*::Adm. tank#1:: Adm. tank #2:::Room tank ::: Tap Adm. water *
*K* ::::::: 82.6 ::::::::: 169 ::::::::::::::: 497 :::::::::: 0.223
*Ca* :::::: 71.2 ::::::::: 44.3 :::::::::::::: 88.4 ::::::::: 9.14 
*Mg*:::::: 12.6 ::::::::: 9.27 ::::::::::::: 16.5 :::::::::: 1.78 
*Fe* :::::: 1.64 ::::::::: 1.75 :::::::::::::: 5.99 ::::::::: 0.0292
*B* ::::::: 0.0611 :::::: 0.0481 :::::::::: 0.0918 :::::::: 0.0791 *
Zn* :::::: 0.4 ::::::::::: 0.412 :::::::::::: 1.15 ::::::::: 0.0167

All the results:
*::Adm. tank#1:: Adm. tank #2:::Room tank ::: Tap Adm. water*
Ag :::::: 0.0 ::::::::: 0.0019 :::::: 0.0 :::::::::: 0.0064
Al ::::::: 0.0 ::::::::: 0.0 :::::::::: 0.0 :::::::::: 0.292
As :::::: 0.0028 ::::: 0.0097 :::::: 0.0 :::::::::: 0.0263
B ::::::: 0.0611 ::::: 0.0481 :::::: 0.0918 :::::: 0.0791
Ba :::::: 0.024 :::::: 0.0078 :::::: 0.0309 :::::: 0.009
Ca :::::: 71.2 :::::::: 44.3 :::::::: 88.4 ::::::::: 9.14
Cd :::::: 0.0 ::::::::: 0.0 :::::::::: 0.0 :::::::::: 0.0
Co :::::: 0.001 :::::: 0.0032 :::::: 0.0123 :::::: 0.001
Cr ::::::: 0.0 :::::::: 0.0 :::::::::: 0.0 :::::::::: 0.0
Cu :::::: 0.127 :::::: 0.238 ::::::: 0.326 :::::::: 0.0411
Fe :::::: 1.64 :::::::: 1.75 :::::::: 5.99 ::::::::: 0.0292
K :::::::: 82.6 ::::::: 169 ::::::::: 497 :::::::::: 0.223
Mg::::::: 12.6 ::::::: 9.27 :::::::: 16.5 ::::::::: 1.78
Mn :::::: 0.218 :::::: 0.256 :::::: 0.0 ::::::::::: 0.0844
Mo :::::: 0.0856 ::::: 0.122 :::::: 0.0808 ::::::: 0.0
Na :::::: 27.1 :::::::: 18.4 ::::::: 0.611 :::::::: 5.84
Ni ::::::: 0.0089 ::::: 0.0087 ::::: 0.0439 :::::: 0.0025
Pb :::::: 0.0 ::::::::: 0.0 ::::::::: 0.0 ::::::::::: 0.0
Si ::::::: 0.313 :::::: 0.403 :::::: 1.72 :::::::::: 2.83
Zn :::::: 0.4 ::::::::: 0.412 :::::: 1.15 :::::::::: 0.0167

Dredged up from the old old thread http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...lants-discussions/16603-copper-poisoning.html


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## michal1982gabrielka

ashappard said:


> hmm. never experienced that. Did you try increasing the dose of TMG? Is your GH good?
> my macrandras do fine, 100% RODI and TMG for traces. I add ca/mg in proper ratio to get 4GH after water change.


Hi guys i'm new in this forum,however i'm a member of polish (i would say) main aquatic plants website forum at www.holenderskie.pl. I read alot APC and more I read more i'm confused.I just switch from ferropol to diy TPN and i notice similar R.macrandra stunted leaves etc......Before macrandra grows perfect with deep red colour... question to above treat... you said ca/mg you det 4gh and i would like to know what is your ca? mg?I've got ca-28 mg-8 which is around 6-GH but i dont think its issue of geting macrandra stunted in grow.The problem occur when i switched ferts also i havent dose any K as ferropol had some in it.So there is two supicions either to low on K or somthink is missing or even is too much in new fert..... my tank 400l ph continue 6.3 integrated with ph-controller kh-3 gh-6 po4-1.5,2.0 no3 5-10 light 1w/l 12hours a day TPN dosing 25ml a day(was 15)just increased due to suspicion lack of boron and zinc 3ppm k2so4 from now on... every day


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## ashappard

my parameters were posted just to throw them out as an example of what I was doing, but outside of those parameters the R.macrandra should still be fine. So GH4 isnt a limit or requirement. You have switched fertilizers and my experience is that I have trouble for a while until I adjust my dosing. By the way, the diy TPN is that from James' Planted tank?

welcome to the forum, and confused is not surprising - even within the US hobby people use very different methods to get success in growing aquatic plants. I think it is a testament to the flexibility of aquatic plants, and also to the similarity between all of the methods.


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## michal1982gabrielka

Diy is not from James'planted tank but based on experience of my colleague 0.26g Cu12% ,4.75g Fe 8%, 1.45 Mn 14%, 0.09g Zn 14%, 2.8ml borum (10g borun disolved in 250ml of water)0.1g Mo 6% 0.5g ascorbid acid 0.2g potasium everythink on 0.5l RO water


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## skewlboy

so is anyone using the boric acid Hooha mentioned?


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## johnzhou2476

Zapins, can you update us on your result. I'm having the same problem with my R. Macandra.


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## Zapins

Well. I bought another CSM+B which seemed to help. Since then I've let the tank that housed the macrandra go to pot, and its still in shambles now. I'm slowly redoing it, maybe I'll plant some more R. macrandra again and update in a few weeks when it grows in.


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