# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Algae overnight



## Kim (Aug 1, 2003)

Last night I made my first DIY co2 and today I notice there is algae on the gravel. My setup is as follows:

-20 gallon tank
-20 watt full spectrum light
-DIY co2, bubble every 3-4 seconds
-pH 7.2
-3 aponogeton and dwarf lillies
-15-20% weekly water change
-one 3 inch shubunkin

So my question is why did algae bloom overnight?


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## Kim (Aug 1, 2003)

Last night I made my first DIY co2 and today I notice there is algae on the gravel. My setup is as follows:

-20 gallon tank
-20 watt full spectrum light
-DIY co2, bubble every 3-4 seconds
-pH 7.2
-3 aponogeton and dwarf lillies
-15-20% weekly water change
-one 3 inch shubunkin

So my question is why did algae bloom overnight?


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## anonapersona (Mar 11, 2004)

Is this the tank that is 5 or 6 weeks old?

I'd say the nitrates are now reaching a level that is supporting plant life, with the low light you have, algea is supported better than the other plants. 

If you can go to a double strip flourescent (perfecto makes one that fits most hoods) you will be better off, that costs ~$38 online. Better yet, get an AHSupply.com retrofit kit to put a 55 watt PC bulb in the light fixture you currently use. Someone who is handy with a drill and wire cutters can do it in about 45 minutes, give or take 15 minutes.

That's what I did with the 20 that I have. If your 20 is the longer type you may have other options, mine is 24 inches wide.


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## Kim (Aug 1, 2003)

Yes it's 5-6 weeks old and it's a 20 long. So, I should add another light instead of reducing it? I thought it was the other way around









I have a spare 20 long hood I can use. What is PC light?


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## anonapersona (Mar 11, 2004)

Yes, add light and fertilizers -- it is really counterintuitive!

If you have a glass top and a spare light strip, then you are good to go. You probably will need to replace the flourescents if they are more than 1 year old, look for daylight spectrum. There are more things than that to consider if you want to get picky, you can research that, I'm not up on it as I've gone to 55 watt bulbs now.

The thing that you might need to reduce, however, is the light duration. Plants can only work so long before they shut down, algae however, goes on and on. So putting the lights on timer for 10 hrs, +/-2hrs, is best for the plants. 

PC is the power compact, it is a longer thinner tube doubled over and requires a different ballast than what is hidden in the guts of the light strip you have now. Go to AHSupply.com for the easiest retrofit kit.


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## Kim (Aug 1, 2003)

Is the idea here to help plants out compete algae for nutrients? My light is on for 8-10 hours everyday. I dont have a timer but I never leave it on for more than 12 hours. I'll add another striplight and leave them on for 8 hours.

I think I might buy more plants to help out too.


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## anonapersona (Mar 11, 2004)

Yes, algae is the cockroach of the aquarium, it is ready and willing to scavenge any crumbs left on the table. If the plants are good and hungry, not many crumbs will be left.


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

It's a pretty common misconception that we use competition to suppress algae. That isn't true unless you are using something like Diana Walstad's method where iron is used as a limiting nutrient or the original Sears and Conlin approach where phosphorus is forced to be the limiting nutrient.

We usually dose everything our plants need in excess of their needs. If they start showing any signs of shortage then we dose more. Many of us use large, frequent water changes to keep the excess from building up.

All nutrients are provided in excess of demand, so there is no competition at all. In fact, if there is competition, the plants will generally lose the fight. When conditions are stable, plants are healthy and nutrient supplies all exceed demands then algae disappears.

WHY that happens has been discussed long and hard. We just don't know why.


Roger Miller


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## Jon Mulzer (Mar 9, 2003)

Ya know Roger, I have often thought about that myself. And though I have little knowledge of botany it has always seemed to me that if you have an adequate supply of nutrients for your plants and adequate light for your plants and adequate carbon for your plants then you would have great plants and a huge algae farm also. It doesn't really seem to make sense. It seems to me that algae being a simpler life form would be able to utilize all of this easier than the higher level plants would.

But I never wanted to question you guys being the experts and all. And it has always seemed to be an accepted fact that this is what happens. to go against such a large grain always seemed arrogant to me. So I never said anything.

I basically understand the Sears and Conlin experiment where limiting phosphorous limits algae, but it seemed to me that it would only limit some types. Other types would be more adapted to a low phosphorous environment and you would think they would still flourish.

I am not familiar with any of Walstad's work. So I have no idea there.

But it is always shown that if everything is balanced (light, macros, micros and carbon) then you get good plant growth and no algae. I know the what, now I would love to know the ACTUAL why.

----------------------------

15XH, 36W PC, XP-1, Onyx Sand, DIY CO2

Crypts spiralis, ciliata, balansae and wendtii bronze and red, pennywort, wisteria and java fern and moss.


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## anonapersona (Mar 11, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Roger Miller:
> It's a pretty common misconception that we use competition to suppress algae.
> ...


So the cockroach analogy is wrong... OK.

still learning


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## Kim (Aug 1, 2003)

I'll do bi-weekly water changes and see if that helps.

How do I get rid of algae already on the gravel? Should I get a pleco?

I have a Mbuna that has a mouth designed for scraping algae off rocks. Maybe I'll put him in there from time to time


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## wetmanNY (Feb 1, 2003)

Diana Walstad's _Ecology of the Planted Aquarium_ does not offer a "method where iron is used as a limiting nutrient" though she does discuss ionic iron's limited availability in oxygenated water (pp 167ff). She reports that most natural waters contain very low concentrations of iron, and that it can limit algal growth simply because it either precipitates or binds to chelating molecules of dissolved organic carbon. But "algal growth can be stimulated by as little as 0.005ppm, which you probably can't measure," she writes.

Though she goes on about photoreduction of iron, her two main points on iron as a nutrient can be quoted as these, IMO:

"In aquariums containing soil underlayers, fertilization with chelated iron is almost surely unnecessary."

"In my opinion, the substrate-- not the water-- is the primary place to provide plants with iron."

Both quotes are from p. 169.

It's four years now since Diana Walstad's book came out. I re-read sections of it often, with profit.


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

wetmanNY,

(Do you folks have power back yet?)

I think you may have missed the forest for the trees, as the old saying goes.

Ms. Walstad's Chapter 10 titled "Algae Control" in which she criticizes most every method for algae control. The third section in that chapter is titled "Factors in Controlling Algae." In that section she details three factors that can be used to control algae, each in its own section. The three sections are "Emergent Plants", "Iron" (by far the largest of the three, and the source for all the material you quoted) and "Allelopathy".

In the section on iron Ms. Walstad describes in substantial detail how iron can be used to control algae. That section contains the subsections "Iron as a limiting Nutrient for Algae", "How Algae Gets Iron" and "Iron and Algae Control."

At the end of the first of these subsections she says:

"My point is that because iron doesn't stay around very long in oxygenated water, it can limit algal growth -- in aquariums as well as oceans. Unlike phosphate and other plant nutrients, which can and often do accumulate in aquarium water, the reservoir of free iron in aquarium water is limited." 

I don't know what more she could have done to "offer a 'method where iron is used as a limiting nutrient.'"

Roger Miller


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Roger Miller:
> wetmanNY,
> ...


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## George Willms (Jul 28, 2004)

I think that most people have power back, but as of this morning, I still had none at home.









George

Tank specs in profile


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Well, I'm going to see Diana in a week, why don't I ask her then and report back?









Best,
Phil


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## imported_aquaverde (May 5, 2003)

Best way to get the latest and greatest clarification I can think of.









James

armchair aquarist and former algae farmer


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