# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Raising GH with epsom salts



## swannee (Jun 11, 2005)

I have very very low GH from my water source, if I use epsom salts to raish the GH, does this mean I will have all the chemistry of hard water as well? Or will I need to add calcium, and other things,for the water to have all the properties of hard or harder water?


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## imported_shalu (Feb 13, 2004)

Epsom salt only provides you the Mg part of GH, you need a source of Ca. Gypsum is a cheap source of Ca. Use about 3 part Gypsum, one part epsom salt.


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## swannee (Jun 11, 2005)

Thanks shalu, I'll give that a try


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## swannee (Jun 11, 2005)

Did the gypsum thing today, not so sure how thats going to work? I add 1/4 tsp epsum salts to 8 litres of water gives me a gh of 6 deg. added 3/4 tsp of gypsum (looks and feels like sand) it only partly dissolves in water and the gh with epsum salts and the gypsum is 13 deg. This thing is turning into a hi-tec tank trying to figure out whats missing and what isn't!!!! Mabye I have crappy soil?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Now that you have a good GH with the gypsum, you should be able to relax. That one addition should be enough for quite awhile. 

If you feed your fish well and don't do too many water changes, the calcium and magnesium released by the fish will replenish what the plants take up.

Your soil may be just fine. The proof will be now in how well your plants grow!


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## swannee (Jun 11, 2005)

Thank you Diana, I'll give it a little to see what happens.

And could you tell me what you would consider a moderate amount of fish would be in a 48"x 18"x18" tank? at this point I have 2 otto's (would like to add 3 more) 4 adult panada cory's & 3 fry about 1 cm each (the panda's have been busy







), and all of 5 cardinal tetras, but @$4.00 a head, I can only do 6 at a time each week, but I was thinking of a total of about 20, so if I do the 5 otto's 7 panada's what are your thoughts on how many cardinals??

I have been running 4x phillips 38W aqua relle for a total of 2.33W/G but I seem to be getting some alage growth on the glass (green) would I be better off running just 3 lights for a total of 1.75W/G at least until the tank settles some?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I would consider your tank very lightly stocked. All the fish you've mentioned are small and will stay small, about 1 inch.

Your tank should be able to easily hold 20 Cardinals plus a few more Ottos.

I use generally accepted guidelines such as Axelrod's stocking rates in "The Fish Mini-Atlas".


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## swannee (Jun 11, 2005)

Thanks Diana, I'm working on the fish population and it seems to be doing better









I finally found some Brazilian Pennywort (Hydrocotyle Lencocephala) and here's an up date of what I belive to be the finished product.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Tank is nicely planted and looks like it should do well, besides being quite attractive.

You didn't mention the substrate, but it looks like you used a soil layer?


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## swannee (Jun 11, 2005)

I sure did Diana,(used a soil layer) and it is so much better than the HIGH-TECH method, at this point the only trouble I seem to be having is my swords don't seem to be real happy







everything else seems to be doing great.

Cardinals are hard to find this time of year in this neck of the woods, but I have managed to get my hands on 19 so far, and have added another Oto, for a total of 29 2" fish and if you can belive this still looking for Silver Angel Fish, so far no luck.









And THANK YOU for your kind words!!

Do you think I should add some clay balls for the swords, they seem to be getting holes in the leaves here and there?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I think the clay balls are mainly to help with iron deficiency (yellowing of new leaves). However, I don't think clay balls would hurt.

Did you use potting soil? Potting soil combined with softwater really needs to get some hardwater nutrients. I can see where the Amazon swordplants, which thrive in hardwater, might have problems in a softwater/potting soil tank.

As I wrote in my book, the main nutrients you need to worry about in this situation are calcium and potassium, and to a lesser extent, magnesium. 

However, unless the swords get worse, the plants may take care of it on their own.

Can't find silver angels? Amazing!


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## swannee (Jun 11, 2005)

I used soil from a garden and throw in a few fist fulls of organic compost.

I,ll have to work on finding a better source of calcium & potasium, I'm using epsum salts and gypsum to raise the GH (now at 6dh)and I have some "NO SALT" but the gypsum looks and feels like sand and stays in the bottom of the bucket when mixing it up and the no salt just floats on top no mater how long you try to mix it with water, witch doesn't mean I'm not getting the calcium or potasium, what bothers me is I'm not sure I'm getting them!


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## Miss Fishy (May 13, 2006)

I ordered some potassium chloride from the chemist. They sell it as an IV concentrate in 2000mg ampules, and since it is already mixed with water it's easy to use. It was pretty cheap too; only about $10.00 for 10 ampules (enough for 1000 litres if you are aiming for 10ppm potassium). 

Why can't you use crushed shells as a source of calcium and magnesium? 

From Alex.


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## swannee (Jun 11, 2005)

I did at the start but GH stayed below 5dg and the PH went from 6.8 to 7.6 or more (test kit only reads to 7.6)


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I would go the crushed shell (oyster grit, garden lime route). It takes awhile for the calcium carbonate to dissolve. Actually, I would poke some of this material down into the soil layer. (Turn off filter first!) 

This should slowly raise the GH. Plant roots may tap into it as well. I've seen plant roots bury themselves in a bit of shell even in my hardwater tank! It won't hurt and could help.

Please do not use gypsum! This is calcium sulfate and this much sulfate buried in the soil/compost may kill your plants. In the substrate, this sulfate will be converted to hydrogen sulfide, which is very toxic to plant roots.

Try to get some KCl. Its sold as "salt substitute" in grocery stores (just read the ingredient label). Since its for humans, all the other ingredients probably won't hurt your fish. You probably won't need to add much. Just sprinkle water with "a dash". See how your plants respond.


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## smilingfrog (May 22, 2005)

> Please do not use gypsum! This is calcium sulfate and this much sulfate buried in the soil/compost may kill your plants. In the substrate, this sulfate will be converted to hydrogen sulfide, which is very toxic to plant roots.


Ug. I wish you had mentioned this earlier. My tapwater is very soft (GH 2°, KH 2°) and based on this thread I used gypsum and epsom salts to raise the GH to 8°. I added 3 tablespoons directly to the tank. Dolomite had only raised the GH to 4°.

Any suggestions for plants that may like higher levels of sulfate?


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## Miss Fishy (May 13, 2006)

I looked for salt substitute, but I could only find brands labelled "potassium reduced" or "potassium free"! What the...?

You can also buy "shell grits" from the pet bird section of the supermarket. 

From Alex.


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## Jane of Upton (Jul 28, 2005)

For adding calcium, I use "soft" playbox sand. Playsand is usually either tan (quartz) or white "tropical" sand. The white stuff will often say NOT for aquarium use.... because it is calcium carbonate. Technically, its actually "ooidic" sand, made up of tiny round calcium carbonate balls, hence it feels very "soft" to the touch. If you can find playbox sand where each grain looks round or egg-shaped, its a great source of calcium, and one bag will last a long, long time. I mix a handful in, just as you would shell grit. The small size lets me get it evenly distributed throughout the substrate. I used 1/4 cup in a 10 gallon setup, sprinkled into the soil layer before adding the sand. I also used between 1/4 -1/2 cup in a 29 gallon setup (older) in which I used the clay (kitty litter) layer method. In the 10 gallon (soil) setup with some calcium sand, which is only about a month old, I have noticed that some crypts I bought with a few small holes in the leaves are now growing new leaves that are pristine (no holes, yipee).


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## swannee (Jun 11, 2005)

> Originally posted by Diana Walstad:
> Now that you have a good GH with the gypsum, you should be able to relax. That one addition should be enough for quite awhile.
> 
> If you feed your fish well and don't do too many water changes, the calcium and magnesium released by the fish will replenish what the plants take up.
> ...


It's all just a bit confusing.


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## Miss Fishy (May 13, 2006)

> Originally posted by Diana Walstad:
> I would go the crushed shell (oyster grit, garden lime route). It takes awhile for the calcium carbonate to dissolve. Actually, I would poke some of this material down into the soil layer. (Turn off filter first!)
> 
> Please do not use gypsum! This is calcium sulfate and this much sulfate buried in the soil/compost may kill your plants. In the substrate, this sulfate will be converted to hydrogen sulfide, which is very toxic to plant roots.


I thought Diana was just referring to putting gypsum into the substrate. What she said earlier on was in response to you adding gypsum to the water column.

From Alex.


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## smilingfrog (May 22, 2005)

Round and round we go. I'm starting to wish I had well water.
I have found that both oyster shells and dolomite have only raised my GH to 4-5°. Both of these are CaCO3, which is fairly insoluble in water. Gypsum, which is CaSO4, is much more soluble, and therefore releases more Ca++ into the water column, much more quickly. I bought the gypsum at a plant store as ferlizer. So the question of toxicity lies in the sulfate: at around 8-12 mg of sulfate per litre of water and not in the substrate, is sulfate toxic to fish or plants? 

Calcium Chloride would probably be a better source of soluble Ca++, but I haven't been able to find a source.

Perhaps this should go into a new thread.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Dear Smiling Frog,

I would just see what works for you. What you have right now may be fine for plant growth. Gypsum may work fine. I may have exaggerated potential problems and just created confusion. My apologies. 

Potassium chloride is very soluble in water, so whatever you saw floating on the surface may have been a minor ingredient (binder, etc). What you added, despite the fact you can't see it, may be helping your plants.

Why not just see how your planted tank develops. Despite all the chatter, it looks like its off to a good start.


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