# Planning 1st Tank Please Help



## NEDIVER (Nov 30, 2005)

Well first let me say hello...I am new to this forum. I have been keeping fish in some form for 15 yrs or so. Most recently I was consumed with a 120g reef tank and due to time constraints with travel and on going expenses with the tank I decided to leave the hobby. I did however keep my CO2 devices, ph controller, lighting (halide and PC), RO/DI and a few etc items. I have two choices for tanks and both have custom canopies in them...either a 55g or a 54g corner tank. I am leaning towards the 54g because of the depth and how it will allow me to aquascape easier. Anyway, I am looking for help from soup to nuts as I really don't even know where to begin. I will keep a photo journal of my progress with this tank and will post it here. From reading many threads here I realize many parts of this tank are topics regularly debated...I am looking for all suggestions and I will decide whats best for me. Lets start with a few questions?

Heaters: What kind is best that wont go haywire on me, I dont think I will use a cable heater

Lighting: Metal halide (150-250w) or PC (2X65w) and what type of bulbs

Substrate: ADA or something else, also should I try using some type of sand in the foreground, but good substrate towards the back for plants

Driftwood: Where should I get it and what type is best

Plants: Online vendors? and should I get a package deal

Books: One good catch all book

Gardening tools: What do I need and where to get it

Ferts: What will I need and can I use PMDD

Fish: These are the list of fish I like: Cories, Loaches, Tetras, Guppies, Killies, and I will need some Algae eaters.

I think that is all I can think of right now. Please don't think of me as lazy or uncreative, but I know that when I started in saltwater I bought everything twice and it got really expensive...I would like to avoid that mistake again.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Welcome to apc!

Let me see if I can at least give you some opinions on some of your questions. 
Heaters: I have a Hydor in line heater, which I strongly recommend. The less equipment in the tank, the better, imo.

Lighting: I would go with pc's. Cheaper than metal halides and come in a decent range of temps. If you haven't already, check out www.ahsupply.com. Great lighting stuff there, and the best reflectors on the market.

Substrate: ADA stuff is very good, though a little pricey, imo. You have a lot of choices here. Probably the most commonly used ones are Flourite, made by Seachem, and Eco-complete made by Carib Sea. IMO, this is more of a personal choice/budget type of preference.

Driftwood: I collect my own. But there are numerous on line vendors.

Plants: Check the sponsors of the forum, and there's always folks selling or sometimes giving away some plants on the 'for sale/trade' forum. Keep your eyes open for a lot of good stuff.

Tools: I would suggest a pair of long, sharp scissors and long handled forceps or tweezers to prune/plant, etc.

Ferts: Check www.gregwatson.com . Good guy, great service, and prices.

Fish: your choice!

There you have one guy's opinions, FWIW. HTH.


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## kimbm04r (Apr 22, 2005)

As a side note: 

One thing you failed to mention is the filter. Do you still have the filter from your salt setup? If not, I would recommend a canister filter. Just got my first one and I love it.


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## NEDIVER (Nov 30, 2005)

I have an XP3 filter left over from an old FW setup.

Thanks for the heater suggestion...that sounds good to me.

With PC bulbs...what color range looks the best? I can also have two colors

Substrate- The ADA stuff looks great but it would run me about $150 bucks before shipping...so thats hard to swallow unless many think its a worthwhile investment. The Eco-complete seems to be about the same price as the ADA stuff and seems simliar if you ask me. I am not sure I would like the look of all flourite in the tank.

I forgot to ask what type of CO2 diffuser or reactor I should get. I was looking at the dupla reactor, but I would also be interested in DIY.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

I personally like the 6700K bulbs. If you have 55W pc fixture a lot of folks use a combo of GE's 9325K and a 6700K bulb. I'm not too well versed on color temp. Do a search here, lots of info.

Most folks use a diy rector. Go to the diy forum and check out Gomer's diy plans. Many use this basic reactor plan. Currently a lot of discussion about using diffusors for CO2 delivery, jury may still be out on this method.

The XP3 should work great.


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## stcyrwm (Apr 20, 2005)

Heaters I'll leave for someone with more experience. I have three tanks at household temperature of 72 with no heater. 

I like Seachem Onyx for substrate but am interested in trying other possibilities. Matpat has a thread on the Planted Tank forum which talks about Soilmaster Select. I'll be curious to how this goes. If you use sand a lot of folks seem to get their sand from pool supply stores for grain size. You'll have to research this.

I've mainly used stone from my backyard but folks seem to like "manzanitaburlworks.com".

I'm not a plant package person but that's personal preference. I like "aquabotanic.com", aquabid.com, and the for sale forum here.

I'm a bookaholic and yet I don't have a single planted tank book. Info on the internet is FAR superior to anything I've seen on paper as long as you learn to sort it out. Along with this site I'd recommend the "barrreport.com" which does charge a minimal membership fee.

I would go nuts without my long handled planting tool. Big Als stocks them in two lengths under Tom's Aquatic Gardener Tool. It has two ends to it, one for planting and one for pruning. Other than that a tooth brush comes in handy for algae removal and the hand works pretty well too.

Ditto to "gregwatson.com" for ferts. Most people can get by with just a few things - KNO3 and KH2PO4 for macros, Seachem Flourish and Equilibrium for traces.

Ottos and shrimp have become my favorite algae eaters.

As far as not getting expensive my vote is to use the PC 2x65 and go non CO2. It simplifies a lot of things especially to start out with and eliminates a lot of expense. 

Welcome to the site and good luck, Bill


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## NEDIVER (Nov 30, 2005)

soilmaster looks good and cheap...should I use a first layer of laterlite?

I will definetly scoop up a pair of those tongs...Big Als has free shipping too!


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## NEDIVER (Nov 30, 2005)

cant get anything on a search string for "manzanitaburlworks.com"


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## stcyrwm (Apr 20, 2005)

Try http://www.manzanita.com/.

Bill


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## stcyrwm (Apr 20, 2005)

NEDIVER said:


> soilmaster looks good and cheap...should I use a first layer of laterlite?
> 
> I will definetly scoop up a pair of those tongs...Big Als has free shipping too!


I'm not sure if you need the laterite. Matt's thread on what he did is here: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=10563.

Bill


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## imatrout (May 12, 2005)

NEDIVER said:


> Driftwood: Where should I get it and what type is best


The best source for driftwood is www.manzanita.com Call them and talk to the owner who is VERY skilled at picking out specimens for your tank. Tell him the look you want and the size of tank and you'll get great stuff at about 1/4 the LFS price!


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## NEDIVER (Nov 30, 2005)

I have city water and I am not sure the parameters...Is it worth it for me to use my RO/DI for my planned tank or should I sell it and use the money towards plants??


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## hsteve (Jul 9, 2005)

I had an ro unit too
I don't use it on my planted tank 'cause as opposed to reefs, plants need the nutrients that tap water has in it. All you'll do is add back the nutrients when you dose ferts. 
Talk to your LFS & see if he'll trade w/ you...


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## imatrout (May 12, 2005)

I am of the logic of not having RO. Why remove what I am going to put back anyway, just so I can have it in the exact quantities I want? My plants flourish on tap water.

The other side of that coin ihas to do with PH. If you absolutely want to hget your PH below 6.5 or so and live in a hard water area, the only good way to do it is with RO water. Even then you don't need pure RO. You can mix it proportionally with tap water.


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## kimbm04r (Apr 22, 2005)

I have a set of the tongs that is mentioned at Big Al's but I don't use them. I didn't like them for arranging or pruning my tank. I got a pair of long tweezers and scissors instead. I have better control with these. They work a lot easier as far as I'm concerned.


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## imatrout (May 12, 2005)

I got a set from www.azgardens.com of long tweezers and scissors. They have a very inexpensive set that comes in a case that has been a life saver. Especially the long tweezers make planting a snap. The case they came in broke the first day, but the tools are just fine.


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## kimbm04r (Apr 22, 2005)

Thanks for that link. I was trying to find a good one and couldn't remember it.


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## imatrout (May 12, 2005)

BTW. The kit in my opinion is overkill. I only ever use the straight tweezers, scissors and sometimes the hemostats. The curved pieces and the spatula I never use. I think it's cheaper to by the kit though....


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## NEDIVER (Nov 30, 2005)

Thanks for the tips...I had a simliar case for a cheap refractometer I bought and it also broke 1st day. Anyway, thanks for the tips.


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

NEDIVER,

For a 120g:

Use both your PC and MH lighting. I like 6700K color rating lighting for planted tanks. Corallife also just came out with a neat trichromatic PC bulb that would be awesome. Check out the lighting forum for specifics on different color ratings and what they look like. 

How many MH pendants do you have? Two 150w pendants will be great also. Many people are having a lot of success using PC lighting for 8-10 hours a day and having MH lights on 4-6 hrs/day in the middle of the photoperiod.

Eco complete is a good substrate for a large tank. If you are willing to pay for it I'd recommend it. Flourite and Onyx are good too.

With a tank as large as a 120 I would highly recommend using an in-line CO2 reactor. You can check out the DIY forum for any number of designs for one. They're easy to make and are really effective. 

One Rena XP2 may not be enough filtration for your tank. Do you have anything extra? If not, you may need to put some powerheads in the tank for current. 

Heaters are easy. Get three 200 watt heaters and stick them in your overflow. Are you using a Stockman or Durso style standpipe?

Books. I would highly recommend Christel Kasselmann's "Planted Aquariums" and Terry Barber's "The Simple Guide to Planted Aquaria". Both give a great deal of information for beginning aquarists. 

Regards,
Phil


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## NEDIVER (Nov 30, 2005)

Well I finally got around to setting up my tank, I used an old bow front I had. For now it has no plants until i get the lighting situation under control.

I have a question though. I used some peat on the bottom of tank and then put soilmaster select on top. I like the look but the peat keeps flying all over the tank and making the water all black. It has been running for 24 hrs, but I think it will be a long term problem cause the soilmaster is so light.

I was thinking I have two options-

1) Stir up the tank and try and filter out all the peat. Mostly floats to the top. Filter floss and a fishnet should work.

2) Get some black oynx sand and weigh the peat and soilmaster down, I think one bag would work.

I am leaning towards option two. What do you all think??


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

How much peat did you use? It's supposed to be only a very light dusting of it, such that you don't completely block light transmission through the bottom. Then the substrate is added to anchor it down prior to adding water. I've never done soilmaster, but with flourite and Eco I know this way works without the peat coming up and floating, assuming I don't disturb the substrate as I fill.


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## NEDIVER (Nov 30, 2005)

I put too much I think, lets say about one inch. So how do I get it out??


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## vollman1 (Jul 25, 2006)

*Peat Moss Substrate*

Regarding the peat moss: I recall reading about someone using 1" od peat moss covered by 1" of Onyx Sand. The peat moss was waterlogged to start with which, if yours was not waterlogged, could be the reason for your trouble.

Before you try to remove the peat moss, you may want to read the thread in the El Natural Forum. Just do a search for "Peat Moss" and it should be the first thread at the top.

Maybe all you need to do is use some Onyx Sand to keep the moss down until it waterlogs?


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