# Algae is taking over my new tank



## ElissaBee (Oct 9, 2007)

Can anyone ID this algae and give me some tips? That's java moss under there. Should I just rip it out and start with new moss? Btw the red/brown looking blob in the low center is a Cherry Red Shrimp working his butt off to no avail. More stats below the pic.









Just planted this tank up 2 weeks ago. It's my first planted tank. Here are stats:

30g long
96w with 6500K bulb
Pressurized CO2
pH: 6.8
KH: about 3
GH: Really high, like 20 last time I checked
Plants: HC, Riccia, Rotala rotundifolia, java moss, Ludwigia, and Micranthemum umbrosum
Inhabitants: 6 Cardinal tetras, 2 otos, and a few Cherry Red Shrimp
Dosing with Seachem products

On Saturday morning I did a water change, then left for the weekend. On Monday morning the lights came on and there was a dead oto, lots of algae, and my CO2 setup seemed to have slowed down considerably (not bubbling as much as it was before I left).

The algae was affecting all the plants considerably. I've already dipped all but the Riccia. All the plants seem to have resisted more algae nicely but this java moss is a mess. The Riccia looks kinda bad too but I'm afraid to dip it. Any thoughts or suggestions will be appreciated.


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## galettojm (Oct 4, 2007)

could you upload a photograph of the complete tank ?

bye,

Juan


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## ElissaBee (Oct 9, 2007)

Oh yes, sorry. Here it is. This pic was taken last week, before I removed green dust algae from the glass. It has not returned, but now I have the hairy stuff.


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## galettojm (Oct 4, 2007)

The tank looks beautiful even though the problem with the algae !!

How old is the tank ?

I am also very new in the hobby so I don’t have a lot of experience. But maybe you should consider increasing the amount of plant. If you put more plants maybe they will take control of the aquarium and prevent the algae continue to grow. 

Sorry if I am not very helpful.

Bye !

Juan


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## galettojm (Oct 4, 2007)

I am doing an experiment with a similar type of algae using a willow branch, but i don't know if it's going to work.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquarium-algae-control-specific-problems/7212-fighting-green-water-simple-cheap-method.html

Juan


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

You have a lot of light, not a lot of plants, and may be dosing too little CO2 and other fertilizers. At that light level you need about 20-30 ppm of CO2 (get a drop checker to be sure you have that), and nitrates, phosphates, potassium and trace elements, all dosed in adequate amounts. So, I suggest you check out the EI and PPS Pro dosing systems, or the Pfertz fertilizers. Reducing the amount of light by raising the light would help too.


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

ElissaBee said:


> my CO2 setup seemed to have slowed down considerably (not bubbling as much as it was before I left).


Not sure this really makes sense. You mention you have a pressurized setup. A pressurized setup should have consistent output of CO2, via the regulator. Are you using a steel gas tank with a regulator or DIY with yeast and sugar?

Do you have your lights on a timer?

I assume you are talking about a bleach dip?
The riccia won't respond well to that. But, if you want it gone, you'll have to get your ferts in line, CO2 levels up (and consistent), and manually remove all that you can.

I would prob increase the amount of fast-growing stem plants that you have, to help you start to get things in line.


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## ElissaBee (Oct 9, 2007)

evercl92 said:


> Not sure this really makes sense. You mention you have a pressurized setup. A pressurized setup should have consistent output of CO2, via the regulator. Are you using a steel gas tank with a regulator or DIY with yeast and sugar?
> 
> Do you have your lights on a timer?
> 
> ...


It is a pressurized system. I have the solenoid on a timer to coincide with the lights (12hrs on). No pH controller. What I meant was some mornings when the solenoid turns on, the bubbles are not flowing at the same rate they were the night before. Likewise, sometimes I'll notice the venturi is not pushing out bubbles as often as it should, and when I check the bubble counter, the flow has slowed considerably from where it is supposed to be. I think either my needle valve is faulty or there's something up with the solenoid. I bought the regulator/needle valve/solenoid second hand. The cylinder itself was filled just a week ago.

Yes, I was referring to a bleach dip. I didn't think the Riccia would like that too much.

Thanks for your help--I'll be looking into more fast growers.


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

Your CO2 / lights are set up the same as mine then, with the exception that I have mine on just 10hrs. And, I have a 2nd set of lights that come on as a noon-burst for about 4 hrs.

Sounds to me like your needle valve is having some issues...

I would cut your photo period down, at least for right now. 8-10hrs should be plenty until things get settled.

Are you familiar with supplies from Rex Grigg?
http://bestaquariumregulator.com/co2.html


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## ElissaBee (Oct 9, 2007)

evercl92 said:


> Your CO2 / lights are set up the same as mine then, with the exception that I have mine on just 10hrs. And, I have a 2nd set of lights that come on as a noon-burst for about 4 hrs.
> 
> Sounds to me like your needle valve is having some issues...
> 
> ...


Yes, I am familiar with Rex's stuff. I just don't have funds to invest in another regulator right now. I wish I'd gone with him in the first place, though.


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## Squawkbert (Jan 3, 2007)

I agree that cutting your photoperiod and adding some really fast growers (Wisteria, Sunset Hygro, duckweed...) will probably help.

With your regulator - maybe try a little increase in the output pressure - it may stabilize the needle valve somewhat. Be careful though, as too much CO2 can wipe out your critters. Also, if yours is a single stage regulator, beware of the "end of tank dump" phenomenon. What can happen is that when the liquid portion of your tank's CO2 is exhausted, the internal pressure can rise as a function of temperature (temp goes up enough to cause a pressure increase, but not enough to overcome the delta-G required to get it to start going back to a liquid state. The end result is excess CO2 going into the tank, so keep an eye on the tank pressure and/or try one of those little strips they sell for LP grills that use effusivity to tell you what the liquid propane level is - I would guess that these would be more effective on Al tanks than on steel ones.

If you don't have a drop checker, you should get one.


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## Dryn (Sep 6, 2007)

I think everyone battles algae. Personally, I have combated green water, slimy green algae, brown diatoms, and red algae (aka hair algae). The "discussions" on algae are many and varied. The key seems to be finding a balance in both the tank and with how you "feed" that tank, via fish food, fertilizers, light, and CO2. It will take time. This is why many people give up fishkeeping.

Plants need two major things that algae also needs: Light and nutrients. (I'll omit substrate for obvious reasons).

Many people try to alter the lighting in their tanks, via photoperiod adjustments and fiesta periods. I too tried this, but I found that it just doesn't seem to matter. Yes, algae takes longer to start photosynthesising under normal circumstances, but it adapts to changing environments very, very quickly. It is just too much work to alter this requirement every week, and I found that most "experts" don't.

The second requirement is nutrients. Plants and algae both need macronutrients and micronutrients to survive and reproduce right? The key is to make sure that the plants get those nutrients before the algae does. The first thing most people do is make sure that there are more plants (or at least more vigorous plants) than there is algae. This is why we add huge amounts of flora or add willow branches. But face it, not everyone wants a jungle. 

The other thing many people do is to control which nutrients go into the tank, and how many of each one. This is all fine and good, but it is expensive and time consuming any way you look at it. 

However, if you look at the expensive fertilizers, they dose every day instead of weekly or bimonthly don't they? (all the ones I looked at did). Why not take the cheaper fertilizers that dose bymonthly or weekly and dose them every day instead? That is what I did. After adjusting my phosphate levels which were over 50 ppm! I put my fertilizer in a pump bottle and added bottled RO water until the 1.5ml pump contained an appropriate amt. of fertilizer per pump. I am currently using this method every day to great effect. My green/brown algae is completely gone and the hair algae quit growing.

Tomorrow I will dip the remaining hair algae in a 1-19 bleach solution to get rid of all of it. The java moss I tested survived 1.5 min. in the dip, and it is the weakest plant I own.

Using excel also may play a big role. By itself, it may take out most of the types of algae. No research is forthcoming, but many people have witnessed this phenomenon.

I hope my diatride is helpful to you.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Dryn, the only part I disagree with in your "essay" is the role of nutrients and algae. Algae, even a bad infestation, has very little mass, compared to aquatic plants. It looks ugly, but if you took all of the algae out of the tank, dried it and weighed it, you would find it has almost no mass. Therefore, it takes very, very little nutrients to gain that mass. That suggests that any even close to balanced nutrients in the tank will be more than algae need to thrive. Adding still more doesn't result in a lot more mass of algae. But, ammonia is different. Ammonia in a natural body of water, where algae evolved, occurs when something rots, such as plant leaves, dead fish and snails, or a big overcrowding of fish and their poop, all of which suggest that those creatures are having a hard time. That gives algae a chance to grow, with ample light, not shaded by lots of plants, nor eaten by lots of snails and fish. So, algae which start their growth cycle at that time have an optimum chance to reproduce. And the opportunity to reproduce is what drives all life forms. (Check teen age behavior, as an example!). So, algae evolved to want to start growing when ammonia shows up in the water. That is the key nutrient that too much of will trigger algae blooms. This is a compilation of what several other aquatic plant keepers have been telling me.


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## galettojm (Oct 4, 2007)

hoppycalif and dryn,

Thanks for your inlightening comments, they've been most helpful!!!! I'd would like to ask you though if you are certain that willow branches are effective for getting rid of different types of algae. It worked in my case, but I haven't been able to establish if that's the case every time or if I just got lucky. thanks in advance
Juan


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

A lot of people have had success with green water using willow branches. So, it does work for that. I haven't tried it myself. I don't know if it works for other algae, and I think it works by grabbing even microscopic bits of ammonia so fast the algae are never aware of it. That is just a guess though.


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## galettojm (Oct 4, 2007)

Thank you for your prompt response ! I am actually doing some “experiments” with the willows branches on the different types of algae.

In a few days I will have the results.

Bye,

Juan


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## ElissaBee (Oct 9, 2007)

Thanks all for your comments and advice. In the last few days I have added a big Wisteria plant, removed a lot of the algae manually, gave the the java moss a major haircut, added 3 Amano shrimp, 2 pairs of Endlers, 2 SAEs, started Excel, added a drop checker, and started a new plan for balancing my Seachem ferts. I also ordered 20 olive nerite snails from someone here. So far the algae seems to be slowing down, but it's not gone. I'm optimistic though that I'll have it under control soon.

Here is a pic of what it looks like now:


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## galettojm (Oct 4, 2007)

I envy you a lot !!! In Argentina is impossible to find SAES. 

The tank is looking better.

Good luck !!!!

Juan


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

I am still learning a lot and have a lot to learn, but from what I have discovered so far there is nothing like being patient and waiting for a algae bloom to clear up. I had two tanks that I was ready to tear down because they had this awful looking algae(like a combo of diatoms and green dust algae) that glazed by aquarium glass for almost 6 months. I persisted in just continuing with the dosing ferts as I was and doing water changes weekly. It did not look like things were going to improve and it was only after about 5 months that the algae appeared to slowly recede and disappear. Now, my 40 gallon is going through the same type of ugly algae break out. I am doing what I can in terms of promoting healthy plant growth and I believe this is the key to promoting a balanced tank. I am confident that as the tank matures and achieves a balance, the algae will slowly recede and disappear. My guess is that that the process will take 5-6 months but after seeing the transformation the tank takes after 5-6 months, it no longer bothers me to wait.
Sometimes, we aim for unrealisitic goals re: algae control or elimination instead of just sticking to the basics.

ElissaBee your tank already looks awesome, just be patient, keep doing what you are doing, and things will only get better.


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## Carissa1 (Aug 25, 2007)

Your finding the dead oto tells me that probably there was an ammonia spike at that time that triggered the algae to have a field day. When I say ammonia spike I don't mean necessarily a detectable one, I've had ammonia levels go up in my tank and the algae would tell me before the test kit would register anything. It's pretty much impossible to keep algae at bay in the presence of ammonia so I suggest lots of water changes while you are still cycling. I also got around the issue by using zeolite in my filter, it traps the ammonia so that it's not out there in the tank feeding algae, but at the same time it allows the tank to cycle assuming you keep it in the filter afterward as biomedia. I have a feeling this is what is the cause of your problem.


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