# Can U Be Algae-free with heavy stocking?



## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

So, I've been serious about plants for a few months now. Current specs:
46 gal, ~4 wpg x 11 hrs/day, pressurized CO2, avg 30 ppm (pH 6.6 @KH 4), Flourite substrate, tons and tons of fish (congos, bosemanis, neons, danios, siamensis, otos, 1 angel), tons and tons of plants (everything from anubias to vals, crypts, didiplis, lots of stem plants, etc, etc), 1/2 tsp KNO3 and 1.2 ml fleets 3x/week, 40 ml flourish / week -- divided & added on off days.

I'm mostly experimenting with keeping different species to get experience for bigger and better future projects. Judging from most photos on the site my aquarium is quite heavily planted.

I've learned the hard way about keeping things in balance with this kind of lighting and CO2. My plants, for the most part, are now growing quite well. Despite this, there is a healthy abundance of algae that is quite frustrating.

In small patches I have some staghorn strands that are up to 2 or 3" long. In other locations I have small patches of green-spot. This is a little better since adding more fleets, but still exists. Finally, on plants that are near the substrate (sag subulata, anubias, etc) I think I'm getting cyano. This is quite widespread. The last time I pruned, the plants had a swampy smell to them. At least the BBA has been receding since the addition of 'real' CO2.

Am I missing an ingredient in my fert mix? As I understand it, the algae is supposed to take a hike when I get the plants happy. Am I just too densely stocked? Is all the NH4 keeping the algae going? I don't feed too heavily - 1x/day and its gone in 2 or 3 minutes. I've thought about adding more Ca & Mg since my GH is only about 3 or 4. I do add 1 tsp of Seachem Equilibrium with a 50% WC 1/week. I have recently noticed some light green leaves on my hydrocotyle with darker green veins.

Any ideas or, is keeping a heavy fish load just a bad idea when it comes to algae?


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

I don't think your fish load has much to do with it. Sure you may have more NH4 than others, but the plants should use that fairly fast as long as they are healthy.

The only "problem" I see with your dosing is that you are expecting the algae to "disappear" on it's own. That rarely happens in my experience, with the exception of diatoms and occasionally green water.

You need to get in there and manually remove what you can see. If you can see it, pull it or prune it. Once you get it gone, it should stay gone until you get too low on something including CO2!

If you are noticing some light colored leaves, you may want to increase your traces a bit or maybe add a bit more iron. You can also try increasing the CO2 a little bit more to get rid of the green spot. Just make sure you are around to observe the fish when you increase the CO2. It seems there are a few folks now days finding that 30ppm isn't cutting it on their CO2 levels. If the CO2 doesn't fix your greenspot, try upping the fleets a bit, maybe 1.5ml 3x a week and see if that helps.

Here is a good link to help you figure out what you are adding with the Equilibrium. http://www.fishfriend.com/fertfriend.html

I tried it for your tank using 150 liters of water (40g actual volume x 3.8 liters per gallon) and between 4 and 4.5 grams (~1 tsp) of Equilibrium. 1 tsp doesn't addd much in the way of K, CA, or Mg but should help a bit. You may want to try increasing the Eq also.

Whatever changes you make, try them one at a time and give the tank a while to show some results. That is the only way to narrow down which item is the cure to your problems  I would start with the CO2 first


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Thanks MatPat, you're usually the first to respond. I've been hanging on to a few plants that are horribly infested hoping that they'll 'come around'. Guess not huh? I'll trash a sword and a bunch of large leaves on some other plants that I'd kind of like to salvage. I'd really like to do something to keep my anubias clear. I've tried moving them to shady spots but even that hasn't stopped algae from showing up on new leaves.

I'll try to come up with a way to get a bit more circulation going too. The foreground plants don't get any current at all.

Nice calculator link too. - thx


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

The plants may come around, you can always try removing the worst leaves and wait for some new growth. I would keep the sword too, especially if you like it. Try trimming the majority of leaves off of it. It should sprout new ones if the plant is healthy. I got some Echinodorus bolivianus this summer that was totally melted. The roots were healthy so I planted them and now have plenty of new plants. I probably wouldn't chop off all of the sword leaves but I do think it will grow more leaves if you do. 

I have been having the same issues with my A. nana. I have put it in the shade and kept it under the PC lights and the algae stays the same. I just keep trimming the older leaves and slowly increasing the CO2. Sooner or later I will get the water here figured out  

I do think circulation has something to do with algae formation. My Blyxa always seems to get hair algae around the base. Those spots seem to be where the most mulm builds up so I assume that contributes to the algae formation.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Thx, I wonder how many people out there really have 'algae free' tanks. I'm guessing that keeping it to a dull roar is about as well as many people do.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

I don't think I have ever seen an "Algae Free" tank! A lot of folks claim to have algae free tanks but I have never seen them or even seen pics of them. Even pics in Amano's books show some algae on the Anubias. 

I have had mine close enough for me in the past. I usually end up getting lazy and the algae shows back up. It's amazing how a day or two of laziness can take a month or more to recover from  

By the way, nice name. Do you by chance work in a Lab?


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Kind of a name I got stuck with in med school -- the details shouldn't be posted on a public forum though....... 

Too bad too, cuz it is a good story


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Understood  and I hate to imagine how that name came about


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## pepperonihead (Nov 25, 2004)

*Dont know about your algae problems*

But for me once, I started using more Flourish Excel my algea was easier to control. It never has gone away completely but there is much less of it. I overdosed it the first time as many people here have discussed. Using about three times the normal dosage. I also use Flourish comprehensive plant supplement (trace elements) I use them together after water changes. Here is my question for you! My Ph is about the same as yours. My water that I use to make a water change PH is about 7.8 or so. I use seachem acid buffer to try to bring that water up to close to the same PH as in the tank. But it seems no matter what I do every time I make a water change my fish FREAK! I have actually lost some very expensive fish due to this. So now I am making smaller water changes and adding the water over a period of days. The fish still go to the top and gasp but not as bad. And none have died. How do you do water changes without freaking out your fish!!! This is the last thing I need to conquer in my tank and it is driving me crazy.
Also when I had cianobacteria I did a four day complete blackout and it is gone and has never come back. I think the flourish excel and trace elements have also kept that away since the blackout.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Pepperoni,

I'm curious what the KH, GH, and PH of your water is out of the tap and what it is in your aquarium. My fish LOVE WC's. They start to display to each other and the congos sometimes tear through the plants when they really get going.

I'm also wondering if you have chlorine or chloramines in your water. I called my city water dept. and found out they add orthophosphate (to inhibit corrosion) and chlorine, but never chloramines. I usually add a cc or two of Seachem's Prime when I do a 50% WC. The city's chlorine levels seem to fluctuate because I can sometimes get away without it and other times the fish clearly show distress until I add some.

As I understand it, some not-so-good water conditioners will take care of chlorine, but convert chloramines to rather large levels of ammonia which will certainly distress the fish.

What are the details of your four-day blackout? Did you feed the fish? Did the plants do ok? Did it take them a month to look 'normal' again?


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## pepperonihead (Nov 25, 2004)

*Regarding my black out*

I left for four days. I totally blacked out the aquarium with black plastic and towels. When I came back all was fine. I did not feed the fish during that time. I lost my Lobelia but all other plants came through okay. They looked a little rangy but bounced back very quick and loved not having cyano on them!!! I turned off the Co2 of course. There are some plant varieties that dont do well but all mine except the Lobelia did fine. I have Diplidis Diandra, Tiger lotus, Red Ozelot Sword, and some that I am not sure what they are?


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

guaiac_boy said:


> I've learned the hard way about keeping things in balance with this kind of lighting and CO2. My plants, for the most part, are now growing quite well. Despite this, there is a healthy abundance of algae that is quite frustrating.
> 
> In small patches I have some staghorn strands that are up to 2 or 3" long. In other locations I have small patches of green-spot. This is a little better since adding more fleets, but still exists. Finally, on plants that are near the substrate (sag subulata, anubias, etc) I think I'm getting cyano. This is quite widespread. The last time I pruned, the plants had a swampy smell to them. At least the BBA has been receding since the addition of 'real' CO2.
> 
> ...


swampy smell you mean sulfurous? bga does that...we call it drain smell...did four day blackout and bga gone but fine hair algae and bba still all over the place. gonna tear it down soon. 
wow, 4WPG... i don't think i can manage...btw at that level of light some leaves will pale esp the new leaves...for me just an up of 60W to 72W in 36G tank can cause so much problems...got almost all the regular types of algae except staghorn...no such problems for two years until the itch to grow glosso came...sigh


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