# Beginner with access to proprietry substrates.



## markvs (Feb 10, 2008)

As I live in NZ. and, being at the end of the earth aquria wise I need to know about substrates and stuff from a non, go down the shop and buy it point of view.
I have not seen any pre-made substates here, except for fruit salad gravel, or coloured stuff.
Obviously this is not a good starter for plants, so how can I improve on it?
Preferably simply and cheaply.
Other information is that the tank is about 50 gallon, with a single flouro tube in place at this time. The plants I have bought in from a pond outside are flourishing at the moment, 
The plants are 
Tropical water lily, probably black beauty,
Aponogeton, 2 species, one locally distachyus, the other bought a long time ago as an aquarium plant.
Any help you folks can give will be greatly appreciated.rayer:


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Ordinary quartz sand is a good substrate. It is inert, so you have to dose the water with all of the nutrients the plants need, but plants do grow well in sand. Just be sure the sand grains are not too small. It they are 1 to 3 mm the sand should work fine.


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## lauraleellbp (Jan 31, 2008)

Ditto the colorquartz. Go to 3M.com website and find a local pool supply distributor- should be able to get 50lbs for less than $25!

Also, next tank I set up I'm going to go with a layer of Turface under the colorquartz- same type of deal, find a local distributor from www.Lesco.com and again about $25 for a 50lb bag...

The commercial aquarium substrates will run you $1-$2/lb. AquaSoil is supposed to be the primo, but that's way out of my pricerange, at least...

If you need to soften your water, put a little dusting of peat on the very bottom (it will also provide some slow-release nutrients for the plants)

Good luck and send some pics when you get it going?

PS If your lighting is the standard flourescent tube that came with the tank, you'll need to upgrade that a bit- check out some of the lighting threads.


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## markvs (Feb 10, 2008)

OOps, I see in my title I should have said " without access to "
sorry, about that.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Brick yards, masonry, building supply, landscape or garden supply... 
Someone is going to have sand, potting soil, or just plain dirt! 

If you have any choice in the sand, then get a sand that has been graded. I have used 30 mesh sand, which means that the grains are 1/30" diameter, or not too far off of 1mm. Somewhat larger will work, too. Here, this sort of sand is sold for sand blasting, and for pool filters.


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## bradac56 (May 9, 2007)

Hit your local garden supply stores for a non-fertilized, non-moisture additive potting soil.

Some Home Depot's will have a product called Shultz Aqua Soil that's as good as SMS but a 
bit pricier as it's in smaller bags (normally) for the same price. SMS or the new Truface
product is worth driving for in my opinion so if you can find a Lesco in your state with it in
stock buy as much as you can afford before it's all gone.

The only other things you'll need for the substrate is a local pool/spa company that sells
1mm or 10mesh pool filter sand to put over top of the top-soil (2 inches of soil & 1 inch of
sand) which is usually pretty cheap ~ 25lbs for $10 or there about and a good fertilizer 
dosing scheme. If it's a little tank you can get by with Seachem's Flourish, Excel, and Iron
products but if it's a bigger tank I'd buy dry ferts and mix up the PPS-Pro or EI method as
it's cheaper and possibly better.

- Brad


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## Bugman (Jan 20, 2008)

Don't think they realized that NZ stood for New Zealand (that's correct isn't it?). Don't expect you have a Home Depot there.


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## lauraleellbp (Jan 31, 2008)

Yup- I at least totally read that as "AZ"

I wonder what NZ has that might be comparable, though?


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## markvs (Feb 10, 2008)

Az definately does not equal NZ.
New Zealand it is.
We have various home type stores, but for pool filter sand it would have to be a pool supply place.
As far as I know all potting soils here are full of peat and I was concerned with it floating or colouring the water.
In none of our fish shop have I seen anything for growing plants, I mean they havent even heard about that Dupla system, I think it was called? The only thing here is gravel, at about $5 per 2 1/2 lbs.
Next question, the fert. systems you have mentioned, any translations into english that is in terms that I can make sense of to get a near equivalent to with make up and dosing??


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## Thibault (Dec 2, 2004)

Hi, maybe that you could find some Akadama, it's a substrat for bonzai. You would have the same results as with Amano's substrat


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Thibault said:


> Hi, maybe that you could find some Akadama, it's a substrat for bonzai. You would have the same results as with Amano's substrat


This Akadama stuff is dirt cheap http://search.ebay.ca/Akadama_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQfromZR40
and if it grows aquarium plants as well as ADA Aquasoil, it may be worth considering given the cost savings.

I have read mixed things from it being soil from Japan process at 2200 degrees farenheit
http://www.dallasbonsai.com/store/akadama.html

to

it being surfaced mined granular type clay.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akadama

Has anyone tried growing aquarium plants with this stuff?? If it is soil from Japan that is processed, it may well be equivalent to composition as ADA Aquasoil.


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## Thibault (Dec 2, 2004)

We do use Akadama in my local club, with amazing results. The properties are the same as amano substrat (KH going down, clear water etc...)


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Thibault said:


> We do use Akadama in my local club, with amazing results. The properties are the same as amano substrat (KH going down, clear water etc...)


You are absolutely correct. Just when I was about to set up a test tank to test this substrate, I discovered that someone beat me to the punch.

James C talks about Akadama in detail, set up a test tank himself with amazing results, and references some links from this forum re: the use of Akadama in tanks with excellent results. For folks looking for a cheaper Aquasoil alternative with equivalent results, Akadama may well be worth looking into.

Here is James C link, in which he talks about using Akadama as a substrate for aquarium plants.
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopi...&start=0&sid=532c7f0533dd5de54e3d2966a445a39b


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

This is a very interesting substrate idea. Now if they only made it in a blacker color I would be more excited. I haven't looked for a bonsai dealer near me so I have no idea if it is available here, but the price break compared to ADA AS is impressive.

However, I am pretty sure ADA AS is loaded with nutrients, and this stuff is inert. So, it isn't a direct substitute for the ADA product. It seems to be halfway between SMS type materials and ADA Aquasoil.


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## Bugman (Jan 20, 2008)

Ok, so I'm still fairly new with this stuff so correct me if I'm wrong. Isn't any nutrient found in a substrate used up and exhusted fairly quickly in a planted tank thus the need to have a ongoing dosing program? If that is the case then considering the huge price difference between something like SMS and a high end substrate, why go with the more expensive? Are there other benefits? I just planted my second tank and used SMS and put root tabs in on day one to make up the nutrient difference. The tank is almost 3 weeks old now and the plant growth has been amazing!! Already having to trim the stem plants the 2nd week.


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## wolfen42 (Feb 5, 2008)

Quick stolen quote from a bonsai soil article. Akadama does sound very interesting.

"Using only stable inorganic components such as lava rock or pumice will create a soil that will last longer than it really needs to last. Using only unstable inorganic amendments such as clay baked to much less than vitrification, Akadama, etc. creates a soil that may not last as long as it needs to for some plants, although it is usually fine for two or three years. I have used pure fir bark, and it worked beautifully for about four years, but now I am repotting those plants because it is now quickly breaking down. A combination of stable inorganic and fresh organic amendment (fir bark), works fine for me. I get the right breakdown curve for repotting practices, higher CEC (cation exchange capacity), good aeration and drainage."


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## bsmith (Dec 13, 2006)

hoppycalif said:


> This is a very interesting substrate idea. Now if they only made it in a blacker color I would be more excited. I haven't looked for a bonsai dealer near me so I have no idea if it is available here, but the price break compared to ADA AS is impressive.
> 
> However, I am pretty sure ADA AS is loaded with nutrients, and this stuff is inert. So, it isn't a direct substitute for the ADA product. It seems to be halfway between SMS type materials and ADA Aquasoil.


I was thinking the same thing. In that quote James left from T Barr it said the SMS (inert) grew plants better then ada as (loaded with nutrients).

Kinda confusing.


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## markvs (Feb 10, 2008)

As the NZ market is so small I dont know if a specialist bonsai mix is availiable here.
We are planning a trip to the biggest fish shop in town on the weekend, and will check out all then. 
On the same vein, any suggestions on fish, presently we have 6 neons, and a pair of gold gourami. 
What thoughts on catfish types, Plecos? too big??
what alternatives, that are good and easy??


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## lauraleellbp (Jan 31, 2008)

Tank size, filtration, and heavily, moderately or lightly planted?


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## markvs (Feb 10, 2008)

tank size;1200mm or 4ft. x 485mm or 18 inch x 450mm about 18 inch.
Filtration; Fluval 3plus. 
light to medium planting, hoping for more as time and dollars allow.
Update; 
26 neons
2 gold gourami
2 gold otocinclis cats.
4 angels small
4 kuhlii loaches
Lighting currently single 4ft neon tube fitting with bright white tube


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## peteski312 (Feb 15, 2008)

you could always do a first layer laterite with regular gravel


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## AndrewB (Jul 7, 2006)

Have you tried emailing dupla? seachem? and asking them who stocks their products in NZ?

try this: http://www.seachem.com/purchasing/contact_findstore.html

and ask them there.

Also have a look at their distributor for NZ, I am sure it is a US number but he may be able to help too.


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## markvs (Feb 10, 2008)

Good idea Andrew, thanks.


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## bert (Sep 21, 2007)

Mark,
Some Aussie companies have the regular aquarium substrates, though the prices are steep and i am unsure if they would be willing to ship to NZ.

http://www.aquariumproductswholesale.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=75


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