# 225gal ADG open top



## jsenske

*Gallery ADG 225gal.Open Top*

I am doing a new layout on this tank using ADA substrate and 8,000K HQIs. I thought I would try and post a pic or two as I go today.

Here is the hardscape mock-up.

1. I mark where I want my barries so when I pull the wood out there's an easy reference point+ I can work in the curvature of the line more closely.

2. Laying down the substrate/deco. sand barrier. Quite conveniently, the Aqua Soil case box unfolds to exactly 72"- the perfect length for this tank! The natural bends/sections in the cardboard make it really easy to shape it to my barrier sketch drawn on the bottom of the tank.

3. Adding Power Sand SPECIAL "L". This comes with Bacter 100 and Clear Super already added to it, hence the darker color.

4. Supplementing Power Sand with Tourmaline BC

5. NO MAN! NO DON"T DO IT!!... yeah right. Penac W because I believe.

6. AQUA SOIL AMAZONIA

7. The finished substrate area. Then prep for the Bright Sand foreground

8. Bright Sand is added. Nice stuff!

9. I work in some rock for added texture and also to keep the sand and Aqua Soil from mixing/avalanching.

10. Adding plants- dry scape style- just keep them moist with a spray bottle.

11. The finished aquascape- about 5 minutes old.


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## Jdinh04

To be honest, I already know this will turn out to be a good tank. I love the driftwood formation, where did you get it from?


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## jsenske

Thanks. 
The wood came from a no-longer-available-source, of course. And of course that source would never reveal where they were getting it from. I wish I knew.


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## jsenske

More pics just added here. See above.


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## Jdinh04

Looks great jsenke, how steep is that substrate? I would love to see you add the sand it'll look great even though they will get mixed up a bit. Any plants in mind?


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## fishfry

Jdinh04 said:


> I would love to see you add the sand it'll look great even though they will get mixed up a bit.


Through careful use of rocks, wood, and plants you can actually keep the sand seperated from the aquasoil.

I would also love to know what kind of wood that is and where you got it, looks gorgeous.


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## Paul Higashikawa

Jeff, at the ADG event next weekend will we get to see this and other tanks you have set up? I am very much looking forward to the event, by the way, especially the tank set up by you, Luis, and Oliver!


Paul


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## jsenske

Paul, Yes you will see this tank as it is in our gallery. 

Above also is the rest of the series. I got a little too off into what I was doing to stop and post as I went along yesterday. 

This tank will feature 12-15 Altum angelfish we have here in another tank here in the gallery. I'm thinking just Altums and a nice school of Rummy-nose tetras.


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## TNguyen

Jeff, the tank and scape looks great! Might want to be careful with rummy nose and angel in the same tank. My Altums ate all my cardinals! [smilie=m: 
Mighty expensive meal they have.


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## Jdinh04

The tank looks lovely, your hardscape if very unique. Keep it going man, great start off.


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## Paul Higashikawa

Jeff, if I ever consider doing a tank with bare substrate in the front part of the tank it is because of you and Luis who have inspired me! You guys gave me the confidence that a bare sand tank can look just as great if not better than some of the heavily planted tanks. By the way, will the protrusion of the woods imply the possibility of emersed plant growths? Can't wait to find out

See you guys this Saturday!

Paul


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## skids

Could you post the amounts of each bag of substrate + additives were used? I'd like to price out how much one would need to order of each from the ADG webshop to do this. Also I suppose the tank is the 120cm ADA? The max size you guys carry? Are you going to use the ADA cannisters and CO2 stuff or your other favorites suppliers?



Tnguyen: I think Cardinals are the preferred food source in the wild for both Discus and Angels. Surprizing most domestically raised discus don't eat cardinals, I guess they get too used to BH, worms and pellets to consider hunting.


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## TNguyen

skids said:


> Could you post the amounts of each bag of substrate + additives were used? I'd like to price out how much one would need to order of each from the ADG webshop to do this. Also I suppose the tank is the 120cm ADA? The max size you guys carry? Are you going to use the ADA cannisters and CO2 stuff or your other favorites suppliers?
> 
> The tank is a 225 gallon trimless tank by Oceanic. You click on a substrate item on ADG web page and the recommendation for each tank size is at the bottom of the page.
> 
> Tnguyen: I think Cardinals are the preferred food source in the wild for both Discus and Angels. Surprizing most domestically raised discus don't eat cardinals, I guess they get too used to BH, worms and pellets to consider hunting.


You are correct. I didn't know at the time, definitely lesson learned! ](*,)


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## Bavarian3

That looks awesome...love the open top aquariums. Amazing to think how good the tank looks right after setting it up. Are more plants going to be added to the backround?


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## jsenske

I have kept Altums with Rummy-nose before quite sucessfully in a planted tank. Cardinals too actually. Every tank goes a little different, though. Only in non-planted tanks have I had problem with Altums eating Cardinals and Rummy-nose. They seem to ALWAYS eat Algae-eating shrimps of course.

skids:
ADA substrate amounts used on this tank:

POWER SAND- 1- 18liter "L" (large granule) "SPECIAL"-type (has Clear Super and Bacter 100 already added) + 2- 2liter "L" regular type (just to fill it out a bit. 
Tourmaline BC: 50g (spread evenly over POWER SAND). 
PENAC W- just sprinkled evenly over POWER SAND.

AQUA SOIL "Amazonia"- 6 9liter bags

BRIGHT SAND- 2- 15kg bag (foreground only)

This tank is actually an OCEANIC custom trimless. It does have a bottom steel perimeter support that is concealed by the stand design. It is 30" in width, so it is deeper (wider) than the ADA 120 cm. tank.

We DO aleady carry ADA canisters and CO2 items. Check the website: www.aquariumdesigngroup.com

BAVARIAN3, 
There are quite a few plants in the back- they are just not visible yet- they came in rather small. Also I have 2 groups of Valisneria- nana and neotropicalis that will spread quite aggressively so I am planning for that. There's also 18 Echinodorus uraguayensis that are going to fill the scene quite effectively too. 
Not vivble also are Echinodorus Blehri (small), Aponogeton madagascarensis, and Cryptocoryne retrospiralis. 
I am trying to go with some nice vertical elements to complement the vertical bars of Pterophyllum Altum.

SurWrathful, 
I do not have much intention of emersed growth for this tank. See you this weekend!

On a side note, FYI- I just received word that AGA Convention is OFF for this year. San Francisco is out of the running and it seems it's too late for contingencies. I mention this in case anyone is interested in a last minute plan to join us this weekend for Oliver Knott's presentation + tank tours of ADG planted tank clients and Luis Navarros some 17 layouts+ Nature Aquarium Party at Gallery ADG Saturday night. Those red-eye flights on expedia.com or Travelocity can run pretty cheap.


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## nevada

a great way of setting up the tank...the tank will look nice.


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## jsenske

Thanks a bunch nevada! I will pour everything I know into this tank for sure.


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## Gomer

> On a side note, FYI- I just received word that AGA Convention is OFF for this year. San Francisco is out of the running and it seems it's too late for contingencies. I mention this in case anyone is interested in a last minute plan to join us this weekend for Oliver Knott's presentation + tank tours of  ADG planted tank clients and Luis Navarros some 17 layouts+ Nature Aquarium Party at Gallery  ADG Saturday night. Those red-eye flights on expedia.com or Travelocity can run pretty cheap.


 ...what a shame  I was looking forward to AGA this year. I checked the flights and they are quite expensive for last minute flight...reguardless of what time I fly  I'm sure you will all have a blast! I'll be there in aqua-spirit LOL


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## kmurphy

Jeff

Do you mind me asking were you get your plants from.

Thanks


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## Osteomata

Your designs are, as always, awesome. Great to see the beginning stages of a project like this. I'm sure it will grow wonderfully, despite the "Plocher Energy System" in that canister filter.


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## jsenske

kmurphy said:


> Jeff
> 
> Do you mind me asking were you get your plants from.
> 
> Thanks


Mostly from Florida Aquatic Nurseries (FAN) and cuttings from my other many tanks + Luis Navarro since we live in the same town and all. For big tanks or when I need a lot of something, it's FAN. UNfortunately, individuals can not buy direct from them as they are wholesale only.


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## Nymph

That's a really cool looking tank.
Any idea what kind of wood these actually are?


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## jsenske

I wisH I knew. One day soon I'd like to have it's origin traced- easy enough I am sure- and find out where it's coming from so I can try and source out collectors there!
Thanks for the compliment on the layout. This one has a long way to go- I'd say 6-9 months before it's really where I want it. We'll see, though.I'll keep the updates coming.


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## Nymph

Was looking through the pictures again when I noticed some kind of a tier in the back half of your substrate. Am I imagining things or could it be the angle of the photo?








Looks like a tier? How did you do that?

I suppose the rocks are purely decorative in the way they were positioned in the tank? They're not like anchors to keep the different gravels seperated?

It would indeed be interesting to see the updates!


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## jsenske

The rocks are definitely serving the dual purpose of adding texture and also serving as a barrier of sorts to keep the AquaSoil from mixing. Thanks for asking.
Any tiering is more incidental. I just work the rocks into the spaces between substrate and wood in as natural a manner as I can. I also try and fit the rocks into place- where the gap is minimized. Sometimes it takes 3-4 attempts with different rocks to get it right. I usually bring in way more rocks than I will in fact need so I have planty to work with.


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## mpw

*Separating substrate with cardboard*

Very informative post.

Could you say some more about the use of cardboard to separate the two types of substrate? I like the idea but wouldn't this break down after a fairly short time?

Thanks.


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## titan97

I'd imagine that the cardboard is temporary. You use the cardboard to lay out your design of the substrate, then remove it gently once you have the substrate in place. That way you keep you design in the shape you want it.

-Dustin


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## Paul Higashikawa

Precisely! I'd read from another article by Wayne Sham of Hong Kong. He explained in his set up in using a decorating sand for the tank, separated from the actual substrate in the middle-back by a cardboard. By the way, those who might come to Houston in the near future, be sure to visit ADG. Ya gotta see the tank in person; it's just awesome!


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## gregorsamsa

Actually, 

in the old thread when mr Amano was in the States at a recent convention (where's the thread?), there were step by step pics showing it being done.

You create a partition with the cardboard pieces, pour in the different gravel/substrate with a pitcher then yuo have dual coloured base.

jiesheng


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## Phil Edwards

Folks can buy a copy of the convention DVD with both of Mr. Amano's presenetations, plus all the others, here:

http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/merch.html

It's about the price of an AquaJournal and is translated.  Plus you get to see my skinny self scampering around like a mad man.


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## fishfry

Do you have any details on the wood used in this tank? One of the most difficult things for me is finding decent hardscaping materials.


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## jsenske

Unfortunately, I don't know much about the wood. I do know I can not get it anymore- at least for now. On a long list of things to-do is sourcing the origin of this wood and trying to track down a collector/exporter. 

As for the cardboard partition , it is removed before adding the hardscape. You just pull it out real gently.


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## jppurchase

*Re: Gallery ADG 225gal.Open Top*

Hi Jeff,

How deep are the layers of Power Sand Special and Aqua Soil Amazonia in that lovely aquascape?

James Purchase
Toronto


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## jsenske

James, 
Thanks for the compliment. 
Power Sand depth is basically just a bottom cover- maybe 1/2"-3/4". AquaSoil slopes but at it's deepest in back it's about 4".


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## Gomer

Hey Jeff, With my ADA tank, I have noticed an abnormal amount of green dust algae and surface scum. Cutting back on lighting and ferts dont seem to change much. Have you observed the same? Luckily green dust is easy to clean off the acrylic and I havent had any of the other typical algae common with a new tank....so far.


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## jsenske

Green dust?? Not sure what that is/what you are talking about. Is it algae? Cyanobacteria? 
As for surface film, I have switched to Lily Pipes (outflows) on all the ADA tanks- and it simply destroys surface film in one night of surface aeration. It can then be controlled by keeping the outflow near- but just under the surface. It creates this cool little whirlpool above the Lily outflow that continuously skims the surface and keeps the film away for good. 

I have ALWAYS had a problem with surface film in practically every tank I have ever done. In some cases I could fix it with positioning a return flow differently, but not always. I have never really not had to battle surface film until I started using Lily Pipe outflows. Obviously Amano encountered the same issues and developed a product to deal with it. See also an ADA filter additive/media called CLEAR FLOAT- designed to deal with surface film. It's on the ShopADG website.


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## Gomer

I'll look into the output issue as I have very minimal surface aggitation. As for greendust, it is a lime green colored algae (not cyano). It is easy to remove from the glass and looks like dust when dispersed in the water as you remove it.


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## Aaron

Gomer, Jeff,

I too have encounters the green dust in my tank. It has been running for 2 weeks. I did my first dosage of ferts and the very next day, I get an explosion of green dust. I was quite shocked, did a 200% WC (drain and fill twice) and decided I would not be adding any more ferts till I see a slow down in growth or some other deficiency. Easy to take off the acrylic but it is all over my rocks. I just hooked up a UV last night, maybe this will help control it. 
I don't have too much surface scumming but my water has remained a bit cloudy. After the WC, it is clear but in an hour or so, the haze comes back. Have you had issues with haziness in the beginning?


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## jsenske

Yes, I have had a little initial haziness. It goes away after a few water changes. From my experience, the 200% WC scenario may set you back a bit. Either way- your tank is going to stabilize soon and you will see the difference at once. 

The green dusty algae- yes I had that on the new tank set up at Oliver Knott's presentation. It came from coming in too soon with liquids/ferts. You do not need to start dosing so soon with ADA substrate or rather- you can, but you'll have a little initial fine (and very easy to rid) powdery algae. Be sure and get your shrimps, O-cats and Nerite sp. snails in there after the first week and you will see that stuff disappear! Do not worry- your tank will clear up and settle down. You've just got a liitle more under the hood than you are used to! Think in terms of a little less as opposed to a little more in the way of ferts in the beginning. 

The 225 gal. open-top and Oliver presentation tank both had some minor first week issues that I quickly overcame with a few small water changes and no fert dosing for a few days. They are both now totally algae free and coming on stronger than any previous tanks done here in the gallery w/o ADA substrate. Java Moss especially is super green and really lush and fluffy much sooner than I am used to. 

The 225gal. open-top is getting SeaChem ferts and DIY macros once needed. The other 3 tanks are all on full ADA. I want to monitor any differences but so far have not seen too many. The 225 does not have stemmed plants, though- and they can be more of an indicator of fert needs- especially early-on- whereas swords, crypts, etc. are not so dependent early-on. They are reaping the benfits if the nutritious substrate right away and seem less dependent on the water column. 

Keep us posted! let me know if issues persist. I'd say in the end- relax and just follow your common sense/instincts.


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## jsenske

Aaron, 
Do you have plenty of shrimps and O-cats? esp. the O-cats will handle the rocks. A couple of Nerite snails and overnight you'll be amazed. Go easy on the liquid ferts the first month. You don't need much at first in most layouts.


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## Gomer

I only have 3 otos, and with the amount of algae they eat (given by tracers on the acrylic), I would need 30 to make it worth while LOL.. .nerites might be more effective, but I can't get them locally


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## dmartin72

Jeff,

Would you say no dosing for the 1st week and 1/2 the recommended doses the second and third week or something close to this?

Thanks,

David



jsenske said:


> Aaron,
> Do you have plenty of shrimps and O-cats? esp. the O-cats will handle the rocks. A couple of Nerite snails and overnight you'll be amazed. Go easy on the liquid ferts the first month. You don't need much at first in most layouts.


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## jsenske

David, 
Yes, in general- but as with all dosing issues- it depends so much on the layout--plants chosen, wattage/photoperiod, filtration even. There's no one set formula- as most of us know. My liquid regimen for the first month or so has always been based on many factors- foremost close observation of plants and any algae growth. I came on too strong on the 225gal. and paid for it- but I reigned it in quickly and things balanced out in about 2 days. I'll get some update shots happening for that one. 

Gomer, 
I would seriously kick-up the Ottos and shrimp. I get the green powder a bit early -on sometimes when I'm running a lot of light maybe a little too long. I have had that in many different settings throughout the years- usually no cause for alarm + you know what to do.
Lately I have been limiting photoperiod during the first month- especially when I'm running any type of halides (HQIs especially). How's the overall growth of the plants would be my question. I'll bet it's good.


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## dmartin72

I guess I was referring to a lot of typical Amano tanks lately...slow growing with moss and Anubias...stuff like that. Anyway, I have been contemplating a lighting system for two of my set-ups, which will influence the break-in period in reference to the above. I have a 50 gallon tank (36 x 18 x 18") and an ADA 60-P 60cm tank - (24 x 12 x 14). The first set-up would involve a CORALIFE AQUALIGHT PRO 36" HALIDE POWER LUNAR LIGHT (One 150 watt 10,000K double-ended HQI metal halide lamps and two 65 watt CF, which can be turned on and off independent of each other). The other would have a similar 150 watt halide with 48 watt of fluorescent lights, also independent). Is this too much lighting? I was going to run the whole system 10 hours or less with the halides on for about 4 hours. Does this sound doable? Also, how would everyone run the lights initially on break-in period.


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## sumecki

Hey Jeff,

really nice layout! Can you please tell me if the used fern is Microsorum pteropus Phillipine or Narrow one?

Thnx!


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## jsenske

David- 
The Coralife fixture you are talking about is awesome. I have the 48" and 72" versions of that fixture on the 2 new tanks (225 gal. open-top & 75 gal. open-top from Oliver Knott presentation) here and I really like them. I have the ADA 8,000K for the HQIs ans Coralife 10,000K for the PCs. The fixture, though, should be great for your aforementioned project. Definitely "do-able"

I like to watch things closely the first few days and adjust light/photoperiod accordiingly. The versatility of having combination lighting like HQIs and PCs allows you to really dial-in the lights amount to the needs of the layout. There's not set formula for these areas- just good observation and analysis.
I have run the HQIs as little a 3 hours/day for the first week or so, gradually incresing from there based on growth rates, plant appearance, algae, etc. 

Sumecki, 
The Microsorium is just the usual narrow-leaf variety.


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## cgm246

*Awe inspiring work!*

Thanks for directing me to this wealth of information! Great work also on the tank setup.


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## Aaron

Jeff,
Can you give us your fert regimen on this tank? You said you were using seachem and diy?

My tank has cleared up and the algae is slowly subsiding. So far so good!


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## jsenske

Yes- for now I am dosing VERY lightly because honestly the tank does not seem to need much. EVERYTHING including 6 Madagascar lace plants are doing very well and keeping good color. There's no stemmed plants in this layout, so most of the nutrition is coming from the substrate. For now just micros and a little iron and potassium- about 1/2 to 3/4 dose after water changes. I'll slowly increase as the plants begin to show signs of needing it. The tank is totally free of any algae and everything is doing what it's supposed to, so I am just letting observation be my guide. This is a layout that in the end may not really need macros.


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## jsenske

Ok I figured it out.

Here is an update shot of a 225 gal open top here at ADG. Somewhere in the archives are the day one shots of this tank. 
It was not quite where I wanted it for shooting, but with an impending book deadline, I went ahead so I could get it in there. About 2-3 weeks and it will be just right I think. I will shoot again and post, but for now, have a looksee. Also, does anyone know the max size (dimensions) for the photo album? This shot calls for a bigger upload to get the background details.


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## jsenske

Ok then!


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## dennis

You can fit atleast an 800x600, it needs to be under a certain file size (bytes). Generally if you save the photo at 80% quality it will uplead to the album just fine. If you need higher file size than that, you will have to link from an outside host. I can host it if necessary but honestly, a higher quality photo than you can upload to APC will not look any better on 90% of the peoples monitors. Only if one had an LCD screen would you see the difference, maybe

Let me know if you need more help posting it, email me is better. ddeitz48432charter.net


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## tsunami

Beautiful, tasteful display. I am very impressed with this layout. 

Carlos


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## david lim

Awesome tank, and I know how much more difficult such a large tank is to design. Seems like everything fits perfectly. Nice Job!

David


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## plantbrain

I like it Jeff!

Maybe add a nice terrestrial fern on that poking wood that's out of the water?

But the moss lower is more natural feeling and adds a nice contrast with the white sand.
In natural systems, you will see this same pattern on wood and the white sand.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Raul-7

I really like this layout! It looks perfect; the E. uruguayensis and M. 'narrow leaf' look great together. I like how the A. madagascariensis doesn't draw too much attention away from the rest of the layout, how is it growing for you? The only thing I would change is maybe take out or tidy up the plant in back right corner, it somewhat seems distracting to the rest of the layout. Great tank though and a nice selection of fish!


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## david lim

Also I wanted to say that I saw this tank when just setup and I thought that the the layout would look much different than what it is now. I also thought that it would have a much different intention from what I see now. This tank seems to flow. Jeff and ADG have shown excellent planning, maintenance, and care through this tank.


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## Phil Edwards

I love it Jeff. Your large tanks always tickle my fancy and this one is no exception. Elegant yet powerful.


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## trckrunrmike

Did you attached the moss to large flat stones?


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## Dewmazz

WOW. That's big. But sooo pretty. How does one such as yourself get a job at ADG? I gotta look forward to something after college [smilie=r:. As it is I'm trying to set up an aquaculture project/facility at my school, along with propigating aquarium plants and displaying them in planted tanks. Any tips on a career as an aquatic gardener?


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## jsenske

Thanks everybody. I am always super-stoked when APC folks dig a new layout. 

The Madagascar lace has done just awesome in this tank-- no dormant period in 7 months, though I keep the water very cool-- around 72 degress F. The moss seems to really like that cool temp. also. 
The moss is attached to larger rounded lava stones, not flat rocks. I trim it weekly and it is a CHORE! to clean up, but it looks good, so I do it. 

As for a career as an aquacaper-- good luck. There are not many companies out there that take the road we have here at ADG. Most are either saltwater only or small "fishy-tank" companies that do purple gravel and sea-chest installations in pediatricians' waiting rooms. You would be best served starting it yourself and working up-- which is not easy either, but if you have the passion, anything is possible. I am fortunate in that my brother and I own ADG, so I am able to chart my own course-- but that has taken many years of hard work and hard knocks-- which continue to this day!


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## ruckert

wonderful! =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>


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## Dewmazz

jsenske said:


> I am fortunate in that my brother and I own ADG


Oh. I didn't know that. In that case, keep doing what you're doing, and I love all of the different aquascapes you guys keep coming up with =D> . My favorite would have to be the large planted blue discus tank.


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## neilw

superb!


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## travis

Jeff,

Stunning once again. Your large tanks have served as my inspiration since I first saw them. I understand how much time and effort it takes me to maintain my *ahem* small 125G with a full plant load. You make it look effortless. Have you ever considered African cichlids with some of your Echinodorus and Microsorum heavy tanks?


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## matthewburk

WOW, one of the most beautiful tanks i've ever seen! When I see stuff like this it makes me hate my tank, lol.


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## dennis

jsenske said:


> The moss is attached to larger rounded lava stones, not flat rocks. I trim it weekly and it is a CHORE! to clean up, but it looks good, so I do it.


And might I ask you to share you technique? It seems a very important but often overlooked and under described aspect of the hobby is the art of Trimming.


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## ruckert

Jeff, the background plant is a Cryptocoryne crispatula? And the middle plant, in the woods, is a Microsorum?

Very beautiful!


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## jsenske

Thanks again. 

For the Java moss foreground, I trim very carefully as the last step. Because java moss sinks, you don't want it getting blown about by other activities during trimming/pruning, etc. So I deal with everything else, wipe the glass even-- so no currents from that blow around the trimmed java moss that's now lying on the bottom. Then I siphon it out very carefully and as thoroughly as possible. If too many little trimmings of moss settle out of sight- it can really take off without you knowing it and cause problems. I try and gently wave my hand over the entie foreground while holding the siphon hose over to get all the tiny little pieces. TEDIOUS! It's no wonder I don't have much time to post these days.
The ADA angled scissors are great for trimming the outer edges of the moss and keeping off the front glass and from totally consuming the foreground. It's just a lot easier to work that angle in just where you want it. Straight scissors just aren't as versatile, though of course they can work. Turning the angled scissors inward makes it much easier on the hands/wrist to get in where you want to and trim for shape in the forground. I also take care to keep the moss really "flat"-- by trimming any stray strands here and there. NEVER pull on strands of moss when it's in a foreground situation-- too much will often pull up and make a real mess of the section. Pulling is fine for moss on wood-- but never when in a deep foreground like on this tank. 

The plant along the back is Valisneria neotropicalis. It is my favorite Val-- I will get some close ups of it sometime. Very classy-- nice red tips. Seems kind of hard to find though. Let me know if anyone wants some-- I pull out runners every week and usually just toss them.


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## plantbrain

Moss is a mess to deal with.
I pick it out of things every week.
But it has a nice effect and looks good here.

I definitely agree, lace plants and moss love cooler water, most plants do.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## wannabescaper

Superb tank. (congrats on ADA contest?) And may I say, very sharp website for ADG! I 100% support what you guys are doing by setting up large planted showtanks. Very cool


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## jsenske

Thanks a bunch for the support!

Alos, if one of you mods can find the original post with the day 1 shots of this tank, it might be cool to add it here. It was titled similarly to this thread.


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## niko

Original post:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=6002

--Nikolay


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## Dewmazz

My! That filled out quite nicely!


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## jerseyjay

Jeff, 

Worth waiting. I can appreciate this tank after seeing it in person in April. Healthy growth and interesting aquascape. 

Thanks for sharing !


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## BryceM

Nice plants, but forget the plants. These are the nicest angels I've seen in quite a while. I'm glad there is another person in all the world that prefers the wild-type. Maybe someday when I have more time than brains I'll try to breed them again.


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## plantbrain

jsenske said:


> Thanks.
> The wood came from a no-longer-available-source, of course. And of course that source would never reveal where they were getting it from. I wish I knew.


Jeff, FYI, email me and I'll tell you what type of wood and where to more of that from.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## dmartin72

Where might we get wood like that Tom?


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## plantbrain

Florida

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## dmartin72

Wow, should I start on the border of Georgia or Alabama and work my way down south?


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## plantbrain

No, try Tom's Cypress in Waldo, FL.
Ask a general question, get a general answer

I think you will need to spend some serious $$ to make it worth your while.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain

I liked Jeff's tank so much I did a similar design Sat at the open house for Buon's 100gal, he had a tank full of while fine sand and caked with algae and green spot on the acylic. Took a while to clean it up.

http://www.pbase.com/ebn/image/52553704

Well, it'll look decent after things grow out.
The sand needed some leveling due to the dojo, and fish but the tank will be quite full very soon and the sand will flatten out once they settle down a little. He is going to add a few more cardinals, some cories. The rose lines look happy in there.

The tank was torn down to the bone and redone in about 4 hours to this point in the photo.

I use the white sand and moss along the front edge like Jeff with roots sticking out, and pretty much the same type of plants.
When I saw the sand substrate when I got there, I knew I did not want to use many stem plants, the sand is very fine.

Buon will need to clean up the front white sand area and trim the moss, but otherwise it will be a low maintenance tank.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## jerseyjay

plantbrain said:


> No, try Tom's Cypress in Waldo, FL.
> Ask a general question, get a general answer
> 
> I think you will need to spend some serious $$ to make it worth your while.
> 
> Regards,
> Tom Barr


Here is what Tom is referring to. Great place !

Full article here:
http://www.greenstouch.com/gallery_misc_native.htm


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## dmartin72

Wow! Now we're talking.


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## magicmagni

That tank came out really nice Tom. I wish I could have been there.

I appreciate the step by step pictures you posted Jeff. And the tank looks as good if not better than anything Amano has done. Do you have any updated pics of the tank you set up Jeff? It would be nice to see how it's doing.


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## Rek

fantastic wood do you think thai i can found it in italy???


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## plantbrain

Jeff..............you are getting too good for your own good! haha
ADG products and contest?

With work and experience this comes.............

And more open toped tanks are wise also!
Why do you think ADA uses them in 90% of their displays?
Easy to work on, dramatic look.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## jerseyjay

jsenske said:


> About 2-3 weeks and it will be just right I think. I will shoot again and post, but for now, have a looksee.


Jeff,

Just curious if you were able to take another picture lately.

Thanks
J


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## jsenske

Jay, 
No because I have decided to use the tank for a new layout. I want to do my ultimate discus planted tank, version III. I feel I have found a way to keep discus really healthy long-term in a very manageable system. It a formula I think I have finally realized all the components to. 

Also, this tank is too much maintenance for long-term sustainability/high-level of presentation given my schedule and other ADG ventures we are now involved with- such as full ADA product expansion and doing a retail store.


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## summitwynds

Care to share that formula with us Jeff? My discus tank is getting started Tuesday or Wednesday when my ADG substrate shipment arrives.


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## plantbrain

jsenske said:


> Jay,
> No because I have decided to use the tank for a new layout.


Dang, I thought I was the only one with that problem



> Also, this tank is too much maintenance for long-term sustainability/high-level of presentation given my schedule and other ADG ventures we are now involved with- such as full ADA product expansion and doing a retail store.


Yes, this is something I think many that have never done or had large tanks realize at first. They need the long term design incorporated, this means the business has less work or the aquarist. Part of that key is a good hardscape and how it'll evolve. I think long term design principles are very wise, the tank is much easier to have in a nice looking shape that way.

I hope you plan on getting a few pallets of the Soil soon. They are clammering May as well make the show room in to a retail store.

Glad to see things doing well at ADG!
I'll be sending all the on line soil folks to you in NA.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## detlef

Hi Jeff,

a while back you wrote:

>As for surface film, I have switched to Lily Pipes (outflows) on all the ADA tanks- and it simply destroys surface film in one night of surface aeration. It can then be controlled by keeping the outflow near- but just under the surface. It creates this cool little whirlpool above the Lily outflow that continuously skims the surface and keeps the film away for good.<

Sorry, I arrived at this thread just today so I'm very late on this one.

What do you mean by saying a Lily Pipe can aerate the surface? I know Amano also claims doing so, I still don't understand how it has to be done. Does it mean you have to raise the Lily above the surface for just one night to rid the scum? Can you explain a little more?

I also have noticed at very rare moments that Lily Pipes can create "little whirlpools" just below the surface. Suppose it's dependent on the strength of current induced by the filter to produce such skimming effects?


Regards,
Detlef


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## jsenske

You do have to manually raise the Lily Pipes at/near lights off time, and lower them back down at/near lights on. It is part of my daily routine to do this to all of my aquariums here in Gallery ADG, as well as my personal tank at home. 

You don't necessarily have to do it each night, but to really reap the benefits of aeration/surface film removal, that is the recommended protocol. I sometimes don't make it back up to the gallery on Sunday nights and don't raise the Pipes and of course everything is still fine. But too many days in a row not doing it and the film does tend to come back on most of my tanks. Though I do have some tanks that never really seem to get any film/surface issues. I still like to aerate at nighttime. 

The little whirlpools are a result of the way the Lily Pipe is shaped and how it moves the water. If you put some dark liquid-- such as ECA or other dark liquid fert, you can see it get sucked into the Lily Pipe then turned back out. It's pretty cool-- hydrodynamics in action. Very good design/engineering.


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## plantbrain

If you get that scum, it's mainly leaked protiens and fats from plants and likely bacteria(too a lesser degree), simple good plant growth and stability takes care of it. Good pearling alone should and will get rid of it. 

I've seen this occur when I've stressed plants on purpose with low CO2.
I reported this about 3-4 years ago.

You can leave the lily pipes in the night position and simply add a tad more CO2 also to account for any gas loss.

Simply having enough surface movement is a fairly common thing/issue for folks. 

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## jsenske

I have had it in tanks of all stripes. Mostly the function of the Lily Pipe raised at lights off is for nighttime aeration, which is in no way a "necessity" in most systems, but ADA advises it/does it, so I follow suit when it's possible.


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## plantbrain

Why would night time surface movement help vs movement during the day as well? You lose a little CO2, but then you don't have to bother adjusting daily.

You have less potential of gassing your fish and more ability to manipulate high CO2 levels when the CO2 is on during the day also. CO2 is cheap, fish are not. This maxs out the CO2 and provides more wiggle room for the plants and when they grow well/stable, the scum goes away. 

You can certainly do it your way, but it's a daily hassle also.
You can also easily set up a small powerhead to achieve the same thing on a timer. There are a dozen ways around this.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain

I recently lower the CO2 on purpose on an ADA tank, I got scum asap.
I bumped the CO2 back up, the scum went away shortly(2 days).

It did not with some tanks that had low plant biomass, once the tanks filled in, then it went away. Water changes also helped.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## darkswan

Jeff, have you ever tried the floating carbon by ADA to remove the film?
I was told it works fine... Simply let some pieces float and they will adsorb the stuff!


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