# substrate question



## brasstacks (Feb 15, 2008)

I am preparing to set up a 65 gal tall tank (24") I would like to set it up with a sandy area in the middle and planted areas off to the sides and back. For the planted areas I plan to use Eco complete (any better suggestions), I like the darker color.


Can I use a regular sand from say Home depot. I understand it should be inert sand like river sand but sand is sand right?

After reading the threads on all natural tanks has any one combined the two. I mean putting the potting soil under substrate as well as Mixing in CO2 and fertilizers. Best of both worlds right?

I have 40lbs of regular gravel, could I use this under the Eco complete to cut down on the amount of eco needed.

I am sure I will have more Q's along the way. Any suggestions would be appreciated

Thanks

phill


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## lauraleellbp (Jan 31, 2008)

Keep in mind when mixing substrates that smaller grains will migrate to the bottom, larger to the top- so if mixing gravel with Eco, you'll end up with much of the gravel on top.

I personally am mixing Eco with Colorquartz to cut down on costs, since I've got a 90gal tank and want 3-4" of substrate to support large swordplants. You can find a list of pool supply companies who should carry colorquartz by going to www.3M.com. T grade is the size you probably want. It's inert, like sand, but IMO the more rounded and larger grain size is better for discouraging anaerobic spots. I wouldn't go with less than 50% Eco, though.


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## brasstacks (Feb 15, 2008)

Laura thanks for the reply, I was wondering if there was anyone out there.

My plan is to have a sandy patch seperate from the Eco-complete. After a bit of research I will probably stick with eco complete in the planted areas.

Still curious though about using an al natural substrate (potting soil underneath) with CO2


Phill


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I use river silt, a mix of very fine sand, clay and organic sediment, under my SMS, in a 45 gallon tank, with 110 watts of light, CO2 and full EI fertilizing. It works fine.


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## brasstacks (Feb 15, 2008)

Hoppy
let me get this right, are all of these in order starting with the organic sediment and ending with your substrate over the top.
Is the clay in a chip form and is the organic sediment basically potting soil.

Thanks

phill


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

All I use is river silt and SMS. The river silt is obviously made up of fine sand, clay and some organic material, all mixed together. I dug this up on the bank of the American River, where it is usually under water for most of the winter season. The silt is about a one inch thick layer, with 2 to 3+ inches of SMS on top.


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## lauraleellbp (Jan 31, 2008)

^^ I know that many people have done this successfully, but IMHO it's not something I would ever try. Partially b/c I live in an agricultural area, I'd be afraid of so many pollutants in there I wouldn't want that stuff in my tanks. I've heard some ppl boil it for 10min first; that would make me feel better, but I still prefer the commercial stuff. Less compaction so less risk for developing anaerobic spots.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I soaked my silt in boiling water a couple of times before using it. There is a risk involved when you use "natural" stuff in your aquarium. But, in most cases I don't think the risk is a big one. If you use ADA Aquasoil you don't run the risk, and you get what is probably the best substrate around, but it requires some special attention for a few weeks after you set up the tank.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Sand is not sand.
The play sand available in hardware stores is a mix of fine particles and can compact in an aquarium, leading to anaerobic spots if it is used in areas deeper than about 1-1/2". It can cloud the water if it is not VERY well washed. It is a silica type of sand which can lead to brown algae (Diatoms) for a while. 

Sand that is sold for pool filters has been graded so all the particles are the same size. There is much less compaction, better waterflow through the sand. Blasting sand is also sold in graded sizes. Swimming pool supply stores will have pool filter sand, masonry stores or rock yards and some other contractor stores will sell blasting sand. Call around. About 20 to 30 mesh is a good size for the pathway in an aquarium. Make a good divider between the two materials, though. They can mix, and not just at the top with a little dark stuff drifting over the sand, either. 

Other sand that is available in sorted sizes will also work in an aquarium. Check at rock yards. Some sand is so coarse it is almost like tiny gravel.


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## Sterling919 (Jan 19, 2008)

I personally love sand over any gravel...almost. I jumped onto the Eco bandwagon today myself and so far I love that stuff. I plan to use it in my 40g breeder tank and I personally don't care that is gonna cost me about 80 bucks or more.

Now I haul sand and other materials to these plant nurserys for a living. There is a sand "hole" that I go into and they've got pure white sand and natural black sand also. I'm a black substrate fan myself, so I understand the love for it. They've got a yellow sand as they call it, that is actually orange colored. Most of this sand is washed already but not washed to the point where you could just dump it in your tank. You should check around at places like that in your area and see what kind of sand they've got.

But I'll agree that probably your best bet is to buy sand from Home Depot/Lowes etc. Or order/buy your sand from a LFS or pool supply place. Unless you prepare the sand that you buy from a nursery the right way you might end up with major problems. I'm gonna set up a tank soon with sand from that "hole" I haul from to see what it does and how it works out. Not all sand is the same...that is very true. And I will agree that you need to use something to keep your sand and Eco apart. And I'll say that the Eco is very awesome stuff...so far anyway.


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## Jareardy (Feb 14, 2008)

Hoppy, where exactly did you dig the silt from on the riverbank? I have a couple riverbeds that come directly from the mountains by my house but I wouldn't know where the ideal area is to dig out and take back to my house.


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## mulita (Jul 31, 2007)

This is a very interesting thread for me too as I am also working in a similar set up as brasstacks is doing. I am planning to have a sand front area in a circular corner aquarium creating an "island" for the plants.

Question, what about using Ocean Sand for it? I have look at some commercial sand bags at LFS that said are safe for fresh and salt water aquariums?

As Sterling mentioning I was thinking on using regular gravel to build up a barrier to keep Substrate separete from sand and also as sand "base" to minimize its use and leave as "looking" for the aquascape. For substrate, I am using aquariumplants.com substrate that I have read is as SMS so I wanted to try it as this is cheap in comparison to eco which I have in my actual aquarium.

I know that larger size substrate will tend to go up but I think that setting this up at bottom will keep it there as far as you have enough sand to cover it up.

Hoppy: By the way, I ended up buying RENA filstar canister filter that you recomended for this aquarium. Thanks


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Jareardy said:


> Hoppy, where exactly did you dig the silt from on the riverbank? I have a couple riverbeds that come directly from the mountains by my house but I wouldn't know where the ideal area is to dig out and take back to my house.


The first and second requirements are that the place be easily accessible. I live in a condo that backs up against the levee on the American River, so I walked over to the closest spot where I could get down near the water line, below the winter flood water line and above the normal summer water line. Then I looked for reddish clay appearance of the bank and dug where I found it. The appearance of the bank there guaranteed me that I had silt deposited by the river. I doubt that it critical where you get it, but I don't think you want the silt to be 90% plant debris, like it would be if in the wooded areas away from the river bank. I was pretty sure I had the real stuff when I soaked it and it stunk like a swamp!


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## Jareardy (Feb 14, 2008)

Hmm, I don't remember seeing any red clay at mine. But I'll look for any claylike spots and go to town there. I'll probably take some pictures and post them to see what you think.


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## brasstacks (Feb 15, 2008)

Thanks all for the comments
I am in Richmond Virginia close to the James river the water is high right now so I will probably be looking for an alternative.
Regarding the sandy area of my tank, I plan to lay down a layer of regular gravel then cover it with 1" or so of sand. It makes sense that a sand of equal size particles won't pack and a coarser grit would still give the appearance I am looking for.
Dividing the sandy area from the eco over organic plated area with small pieces of slate and stone makes sense too. Placing strips of plastic that sit just below the surface of the substrate as dividers should work too. I don't necessarily want plants to grow in the sandy area.
Anyway thanks folks for all the input, I have a good idea now of were to start.

Phill


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