# Soilmaster Select vs. Turface MVP



## p-sully (Aug 23, 2009)

If anyone has experience with both of these I would like to hear which one you feel is better or if they are about the same. I have access to both of these products at our local landscape supply with not a whole lot of price difference. $5.97 per 50# bag for Soilmaster Select and $8.15 per 50# bag of Turface MVP. 
Thank you, 
Paul


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## mrkookm (Oct 25, 2006)

Soilmaster select is superior! Jump on it!


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## bosmahe1 (May 14, 2005)

mrkookm said:


> Soilmaster select is superior! Jump on it!


Why do you like Soilmaster Select better? Any other opinions out there? John Deere seems to carry both and I'd like to know which one is better.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi p-sully,

I like Turface Pro League Grey better than Turface MVP. Turface Pro League Grey is smaller grain size than MVP and is grey instead of a yellow brown like MVP. I still have a bag of Soilmaster Select Charcoal which I do not believe is still available. It has a grain size and color similar to Turface Pro League Grey.

I too am curious as to mrkookm much stronger preference for SMS over Turface.


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## p-sully (Aug 23, 2009)

Thanks for the opinions and the explanation about the types of Turface. I didn't know they had more than one type.

Paul


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## mrkookm (Oct 25, 2006)

SMS is a high CEC based product and as most of you already know is really good for our use. During my time with it I couldn't help but notice that my plants really did well in this clay based sub, but even though I really liked it, I never put too much thought into it really. Fast forward 1yr later and now I can say for a fact that SMS is an excellent substrate, because I've been using the MVP and it’s just plain ok, no where nearly as good like SMS was.

Not only is the clay texture and hardness (which I find very similar to ADA's lite feel) of SMS different from the Turface product, even the plants don't seem to do so well and it took more effort with tweaking params to get fairly good growth. Is this due to the mineral content of the clay? But wait, isn't it inert? I know but I'm pretty sure at this point its high CEC clearly had a lot to do with it.

Oildri owns 2 mines where Montmorillonite clay is mined and I've been told that their mined clay (which might possibly differ in mineral content..*guessing*) and calcine process enhances the CEC of the end product (that’s why the color and texture is different). The Turface MVP which I use currently, though on paper it would appear to be the same *make* product with the same capabilities, is clearly not the same and I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if the clay used for it is from a different mine resulting in different plant responses due to the lower CEC of the MVP. It's inability to hold nutrients as efficiently as SMS did makes it a poor choice IMO and the same thing might apply to the Turface Pro League as well.

This is the reason why I recommended SMS highly as my experience with it resulted in some fairly impressive growth.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Thank you mrkookm!


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## Burks (May 25, 2006)

Interesting mrkookm.

Have you tried just plain old Oil-Dri? Bought a bag today to give it a shot. $3.50 for 25lbs, very dirty stuff. Ran a 55g rain barrel through it, still the run off is murky!

Can't find Turface or SMS in my area, so I went with that. If it isn't any good, oh well. Can still use it in my garage! Only prepped enough for a 10g.


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## rhodophyta (Jan 23, 2006)

I ordered some of the Bailey's Better Bottom online. I'll give it a try in a 75 with pc lighting.


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## bosmahe1 (May 14, 2005)

rhodophyta said:


> I ordered some of the Bailey's Better Bottom online. I'll give it a try in a 75 with pc lighting.


I never heard of Bailey's, do you have a link to them?


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## rhodophyta (Jan 23, 2006)

Yes,

http://www.bayleesfishees.com/hobby.htm

They also run items on Aquabid.com, including the plant gravel and a plant sand is an option if you want a fine grain.


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## p-sully (Aug 23, 2009)

I read in the Aquabid forum that he is selling his business. He has auctions going now to sell all his extra books, equipment, ferts, etc.
Sully


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## rhodophyta (Jan 23, 2006)

p-sully said:


> I read in the Aquabid forum that he is selling his business. He has auctions going now to sell all his extra books, equipment, ferts, etc.
> Sully


He has had health problems. Don't know if that's the reason for selling, but maybe this is the time to buy stuff, since things often change with a new owner.


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## rhodophyta (Jan 23, 2006)

Aquabid has been down more than up the last day or two. You might want to check for when it goes up. No one has been able to bid.


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