# Best way to sanitize my tank?



## ohsnapitztom (Aug 27, 2009)

This may be the wrong forum, but it was the closest one I could find that had to do with this.

I tank recently got a pretty bad case of ich. I'm treating the fish in a quarantine tank right now. What are the best ways to make sure the parasite isn't still alive in my main tank? Do they die out after awhile? I read it's best to sanitize everything like the Filters, filter media, powerhead, etc. Does this include plants as well? If so, what is the best way to go about doing so? I lost quite a few fish to ich already, so I want to make sure it's completely gone from my main tank before I put my treated fish back into it. The last thing I want to do is go through this whole ordeal again. Anyways thanks in advance.


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

I would treat the ick in the quarantine tank with a copper-containing treatment...following the instructions carefully. Allow the vestiges of the ick in your display tank to die its natural death at the same time. This requires time...the amount of time that the ick parasite goes through its life cycle and ending the last of it without the opportunity to attach to a host fish. I would recommend that you wait 21 to 24 days (the longer the better) without any fish in the tank. This doesn't require "sterilizing" or scouring any of the equipment in the tank or doing anything to the plants...just have patience and wait it out. Then, after that time, so long as you've treated the fish with an effective ick-treatment in the meanwhile, it'll be safe to put them back into the display tank.


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## ohsnapitztom (Aug 27, 2009)

The only thing with the treatment is I have an infected Black Ghost Knife fish, which is very sensitive to medication. I'm just trying to treat them with heat right now. Unless there is another treatment you'd recommend, that's the best way to treat it with a BGK that I've read about. They're also very sensitive to salt, so that's not an option either. The other fish are dwarf gouramis for what it's worth. Thanks for the advice on my main tank though. I'll be patient.


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

Well, with quarantine, it seems that you have done your homework. The problem you have is that you have a fish that isn't a standard...fish, the kind with scales. There are others but you have one and so you have to be careful with what you treat your QT with. You can use "heat" and that will speed up the life cycle of the ick parasite...and if all of the fish, including the Black Ghost Knife fish lives through the cycle (I think if the tank's like 85-degrees or something like that the cycle is 15-days, longer if cooler...but don't quote me on that...you should be able to find the documented period easily on the Internet, if you haven't already.) If you want to treat with meds, there are tons on the market and with all the claims, I'd bet that the only one's that really work are formalin and then even that, not as effectively as copper-based treatments. There are a million claims that garlic and garlic-enhanced treatments are effective...Personally, I am skeptical. That doesn't mean I'm right, though. 

I guess it boils down, in your case, to having a fish with specific needs that foreclose the tried and true treatment and so you have to hope that it outlives the ick's life cycle and lives to be put back in the display tank.


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## Six (May 29, 2006)

Why worry about the ich when the cause of the infestation is still to be determined? Medicating a fish without knowing why it got sick is going to make recovery a lot longer and more frustrating. 

Fish get sick for many reasons though with a knife fish it is 100% stress related. These fish need a specific tank set-up with very few fish with them. They need the correct food and amount as well as proper water chemistry. Without checking all that and fixing them in turn, the problem with ich will only reoccur again and again. 

I'd say take out the knife and give him his own tank. Perhaps add some dither fish. Feed it live or frozen food while keeping immaculate water parameters. Give it places to hide. 

Fix the cause before trying to fix the effect and you'll get rid of the ich.

GL.


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

Six said:


> Why worry about the ich when the cause of the infestation is still to be determined? Medicating a fish without knowing why it got sick is going to make recovery a lot longer and more frustrating.
> 
> Fish get sick for many reasons though with a knife fish it is 100% stress related. These fish need a specific tank set-up with very few fish with them. They need the correct food and amount as well as proper water chemistry. Without checking all that and fixing them in turn, the problem with ich will only reoccur again and again.
> 
> ...


Well, I agree that there are a lot of factors that will make a fish more or less, depending on the factors, susceptible to ick. And I agree that water chemistry, sufficient and appropriate food, etc. are factors that if not correct will stress fish to the point that they can't resist the ick that may be in the tank's water...But...we have to remember that the ick in some resting state has to be in the water before it can become free swimming and find a host fish. And, the host fish has to be unable to withstand the parasite on its own to become infected. So, I think that it isn't unwise to address the existence of the ick in the tank and on the fish in the QT. Just putting an infected fish into "better" conditions doesn't mean that the ick will go away before doing serious damage. And, all this doesn't necessarily mean that your water quality wasn't as it should be. The fish could have been already stressed at the fish store and because of all the shipping, etc.

How the ick parasite gets into your tank is questionable. It can come in on new fish that hadn't been quarantined adequately...it can come in with the water from a fish store that is on a new plant that's introduced to your tank, etc. But, if it does get into your tank's water and the Knife fish is in there, it's such an easily stressed fish that it more than likely will get the ick infection again. That doesn't mean the other fish would, but I agree that you shouldn't take the chance.


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## ohsnapitztom (Aug 27, 2009)

I bought a couple of Pictus Catfish from a petsmart, and didn't bother to quarantine them. They had ich - the spots showed up on them first. I was away for awhile and somebody else was taking care of my fish, and I think he noticed too late. From there it spread. 

I'm pretty new to aquariums, so now I'm going to be quarantining new fish for at least 2 weeks. I didn't know any better. The temperature was at pretty good levels. I'm not sure about the water chemistry though. I've been meaning to get it tested. 

I have another question about the heat treatment though. I know it's supposed to just speed up the life-cycle of ich. What do I do when the spots finally fall off and the ich is released into the water? Will the heat kill them? What keeps them from just re-attaching to my BGK? I've been doing partial water changes every day, so hopefully if some do fall off, some of them get dumped out of the tank.


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## Six (May 29, 2006)

Fish are always surrounded by parasites, disease, bacteria, etc while in the wild. They do not die if they are able to fend off infection. Due to stress and likel poor food, the knife fish's immune system has been compromised and is secumbing to parasitic infection. You could bleach and sanitize tanks and decorations all day- if the fish's needs are not being met it will not be able to fend off any parasitic infection. 

There is a reason seasoned vetrans of fishkeeping dont get ich- they know what the fish needs and gives it to them. 

I've had new fish get ich. I just ensure the go without stress and the never get it again until something stressful happens (heater going out, etc).

Medicating fish also stresses them out. Copper? Formalin? These hurt the fish while they kill invertebrates. Also they wreck the nitrifing bacteria in the tank... 

GL.


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

When they "fall off," they're dead. The reason why you want to speed up the life cycle by raising the temperature is so that once the ick in the cyst stage become free-swimming the fish will have healed...have good water conditions and be able to withstand any further infection. That, however, is conceptual. First of all, if the fish are stressed in the QT which is quite possible and even probable, they can be susceptible to more infection immediately. Also, even if they don't contract an ick infection right away, you'd be introducing the water with ick back into the display tank when you reintroduce the fish after their quarantine. So, the only way to assure that you don't do that, is to treat the water with a copper-based treatment while they are in quarantine.

I would say that for the most part, though, like Six said, maintaining good water conditions and feeding well, etc. will assure that your fish would be healthy enough to withstand any ick on their own. 

On the other hand, since you are already quarantining fish that have, in fact, been infected, I'd treat with the copper-based meds to assure that you don't just keep this ick infection going on and on with these same fish.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Honestly, ich isn't even worth buying medications or stressing the fish out by removing them from their normal tanks. Just raise the temperature of the water to 85F or a bit more and the ich should clear up within 2-3 days. You can add some aquarium salt if you want, but not if you have plants since salt hurts plants.

Higher temperatures will also cause most ich to die off in the water.

I always cure sick fish this way (I put the temperature to 87F though since my angels/tetras can handle the heat), and I hardly ever loose one, even in severe cases. Just make sure there is enough oxygen in the tank for the fish to breath since warm water holds less O2.


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

Six said:


> Medicating fish also stresses them out. Copper? Formalin? These hurt the fish while they kill invertebrates. Also they wreck the nitrifing bacteria in the tank...
> 
> GL.


I've been keeping fish for just about 50 years and I have had occasion to treat fish with copper-based medications in quarantine tanks...both fresh and saltwater. I've used both copper and formalin. I prefer the copper. Be that as it may, if you follow the instructions on a reliable copper-based proprietary medication, you won't have any problem at all on the nitrifying bacteria that filters the water in an established quarantine tank.


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## ohsnapitztom (Aug 27, 2009)

So basically if I keep the water temperature up for awhile, and keep them in a stress-free environment, their immune systems should build up to be strong enough to avoid ich? So it wouldn't hurt moving them back to their original tank right? I have all my fish in the quarantine tank right now because they all have it. There's not a lot of room though. I mainly did it to make sure the parasites die out in my main tank, but if I'm understanding you correctly, as long as I have good water conditions, and a good temperature, they should be fine no matter where they are? I'm thinking the stress of moving to a smaller tank with unfamiliar surroundings isn't helping them.


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## ohsnapitztom (Aug 27, 2009)

Six said:


> Medicating fish also stresses them out. Copper? Formalin? These hurt the fish while they kill invertebrates. Also they wreck the nitrifing bacteria in the tank...
> 
> GL.


Also he might have gotten stressed out because the guy I had taking care of the tank bought some ich meds without realizing they're harmful to certain fish. Malachite green to be exact.


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

ohsnapitztom said:


> So basically if I keep the water temperature up for awhile, and keep them in a stress-free environment, their immune systems should build up to be strong enough to avoid ich? So it wouldn't hurt moving them back to their original tank right? I have all my fish in the quarantine tank right now because they all have it. There's not a lot of room though. I mainly did it to make sure the parasites die out in my main tank, but if I'm understanding you correctly, as long as I have good water conditions, and a good temperature, they should be fine no matter where they are? I'm thinking the stress of moving to a smaller tank with unfamiliar surroundings isn't helping them.


If the fish are all showing the white spots typical of an advanced ick infection, and they haven't started to show that they can defeat it without medication, it's unlikely, IMO, that they'll just "shake it" because they're put into a better environment. A fish's "immunity" to ick is largely in it's slime coat's ability to prevent the ick parasite from getting a strong foothold so as to enable its parasitic nature to begin to cause a decline in the fish. That can't be established in a day's time...or even, with certainty a week's time or even more. If the ick's gotten such a foothold and it seems that they have because all of the fish in the tank have it, you can either gamble on the fish and hope for the best by putting them back into the main tank, or do something pro-active, which is to treat the fish. If your QT's filter system is established, then I'd suggest you medicate. Otherwise, what you're basically doing is crossing your fingers and hoping for the best.


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## ohsnapitztom (Aug 27, 2009)

Avi said:


> If the fish are all showing the white spots typical of an advanced ick infection, and they haven't started to show that they can defeat it without medication, it's unlikely, IMO, that they'll just "shake it" because they're put into a better environment. A fish's "immunity" to ick is largely in it's slime coat's ability to prevent the ick parasite from getting a strong foothold so as to enable its parasitic nature to begin to cause a decline in the fish. That can't be established in a day's time...or even, with certainty a week's time or even more. If the ick's gotten such a foothold and it seems that they have because all of the fish in the tank have it, you can either gamble on the fish and hope for the best by putting them back into the main tank, or do something pro-active, which is to treat the fish. If your QT's filter system is established, then I'd suggest you medicate. Otherwise, what you're basically doing is crossing your fingers and hoping for the best.


The only thing is I have read a lot of horror stories online about knife fish dying due to medication. I feel like I'm in between a rock and a hard place here. On one hand, the raised temperature doesn't seem to be doing much, on the other hand, medicating him is a very big risk.

What are the best type of medications you've had experience with? Preferably something not too strong. I will probably use half-doses to stay on the safe side.

BTW thanks for all your help everyone.


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

Hey, I do understand that using meds isn't a high comfort measure. And, I think you are wise to be concerned about doing it. I don't suggest that you use it because I like to use them...actually, it's a step that's taken when you really have no other choice but to leave things to chance or to make an effort to deal with the critical situation. There are medications available that claim to be effective and copper-free but, honestly, I have never heard of them being successful from anyone I know personally. I've relied on copper-based meds on those rare occasions when I have had to medicate fish for ick, in both fresh and saltwater situations. Here's one that I have used with success on simple freshwater ick:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4743

When you use a medication, you should rely on the directions to direct you properly. Of course, I can't guarantee that it'd be successful, but I think your fish would benefit. But, whatever you do, don't wait too long because if the ick isn't going away on its own with the measures that you've taken, the parasites are active and that isn't something that you'd want to prolong.

Just make sure that you have a well-established filter going on the tank you treat the fish in and don't use carbon during treatment but do have a good airstone going on the treatment tank.


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## ohsnapitztom (Aug 27, 2009)

Ok the LFS I went to only had one medication, but I think it is a good one, especially for my case. Kordon Ich Attack. Apparently it is a lot more "gentle" for the fish. It's 100% organic, and free of any chemicals and heavy metals. It also says it's safe for scaleless fish at full doses. So let's just hope it works out. Thanks for your help again.


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## Six (May 29, 2006)

Avi said:


> I've been keeping fish for just about 50 years and I have had occasion to treat fish with copper-based medications in quarantine tanks...both fresh and saltwater. I've used both copper and formalin. I prefer the copper. Be that as it may, if you follow the instructions on a reliable copper-based proprietary medication, you won't have any problem at all on the nitrifying bacteria that filters the water in an established quarantine tank.


Considering a QT tank is not about having established nitrifying bacteria, yes I agree.

All I was saying is there are ways to control ich with less cost and stress than copper and or formaldehyde. Why not just nix the idea of using drugs on the fish and just care for it specifically? I guess I don't understand because there is no need to "save" it from ich. When the fish is healthy it will fight the parasite on its own. First step, make it healthy.

Without treating the cause, the effect won't be possible to treat.

Remember too that "organic" is a word being thrown around a lot these days with absolutely no regulation on its use. Also, remember that stores, brands and products want you to buy their goods. They want you to think you need meds to "save" your fish. Just care for them right and you wont need to spend money on placebos.


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

ohsnapitztom said:


> Ok the LFS I went to only had one medication, but I think it is a good one, especially for my case. Kordon Ich Attack. Apparently it is a lot more "gentle" for the fish. It's 100% organic, and free of any chemicals and heavy metals. It also says it's safe for scaleless fish at full doses. So let's just hope it works out. Thanks for your help again.


ohs...I would appreciate it if you would post the results that you get from that ick treatment that you bought. I hope it does prove effective.


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## ohsnapitztom (Aug 27, 2009)

My BGK died about 3 days ago . I was most likely too late with the treatment. The Gouramis are doing quite well. They are a lot more active now. Only a couple of them had a few small spots, which have disappeared now. I think the medication does work; I just treated the BGK too late. The medication smells really bad, and left a hint of a brown tint in my water, but other than that, it seems pretty effective. Definitely a good alternative if you have sensitive scaleless fish since there are no chemicals in it.

I'm going to continue treating them for the rest of this week to be safe, then I'll probably move them back into the main tank. Thanks again for all your help in the thread.


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## angel004 (Jul 22, 2009)

I read something about raising the temperature to get rid off ich. My angel fish are showing ich. I am raising the temperature to 85F and hope this will work.


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## ohsnapitztom (Aug 27, 2009)

In my case, I don't think it did much, and in the end, I treated my fish too late. I had the tank at around 85 degrees most of the time too. Make sure you don't make the same mistake, especially if your fish aren't sensitive to medication. Watch them closely and if the spots keep spreading, I would say you should look for some medication.


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