# Crypts for my 20g tall



## RESGuy

I am setting up a 20g tall tank low-tech on a $142 budget so I thought Crypts would be a good plants for this tank because they are easy to keep and cheap. What would be the best Crypts to fill the background of my tank? This is the layout I drew up really quickly with just the foreground (a carpet of Dwarf Hairgrass) and the mid-ground (Java Moss and Java Fern on driftwood).








I will be using Eco-Complete substrate and NO CO2. What lights would be best?


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## frozenbarb

with no co2... the lights would have to be like 1.3 wpg

very low light try to look for tall ones, i got some vals if you want


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## AaronT

Crypt. retrospiralis is a nice 'grassy' type plant for a backround. I have some in my tank and I like it a lot.


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## Kelley

Crypt. spiralis is also very nice. It curls just a little and has an interesting texture. I am using it and like it a lot.


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## RESGuy

*frozenbarb*- 1.3 wpg is only 15 watts. I think I need a much higher wattage for a 24 inch tall tank, what do you guys think?

*AaronT*- Yeah _Cryptocoryne retrospiralis_ is really nice thank you for suggesting it 

*Kelley*- The _Cryptocoryne spiralis_ looks nice too, but I think it is really similar to the _Cryptocorynes retrospiralis_ so I don't know if they would look good together..

Anyways, I found a nice site for buying Crypts called Aquatic Store so I am browsing through them. Is this a trustworthy site from which to purchase?


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## RESGuy

Okay, here is a list of plants I want in my tank that I got together. For the Background plants I don't necessarily want all of those in my tank but those are the ones I like.
*Foreground Plants*
_Eleocharis parvula_ (Dwarf Hairgrass)

*Mid-ground Plants*
_Microsorum pteropus_ (Java Fern)
_Taxiphyllum alternans_ (Taiwan Moss) or _Vesicularia montagne_ (Christmas Moss)

*Background Plants*
_Cyperus helferi
Jungle vallisneria
Echinodorus angustifolius
Cryptocoryne 'balansae'
Cryptocoryne lucens
Cryptocoryne retrospiralis
Cryptocoryne tonkinensis_


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## Purrbox

The Cryptocoryne x willisi 'lucens' is probably going to be too short for the background. I'm using it in the midground of my 10 gallon tank.


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## AaronT

E. parvula will do much better with CO2
Jungle Val may be too tall
C. helferi is also too tall (up to 3 feet) and large for a 20 gallon tank.
C. lucens may be too short as already pointed out
C. tonkinensis is hard to find and not one of the easier Crypts to grow


All of the others look like excellent choices.


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## cs_gardener

RESGuy said:


> 1.3 wpg is only 15 watts. I think I need a much higher wattage for a 24 inch tall tank, what do you guys think?


You said this is a 20 gal tank so 1.3 wpg is 26 watts, which is quite low. I have 65 watts over my 20 gallon which is about 16 inches tall (or so). I do not use CO2 but I do dose low amounts of Excel somewhat regularly.  I also have floating plants that help diffuse the light a bit and soak up excess nutrients.

Your foreground and middle ground plants are fairly slow growing (the dwarf hairgrass being very slow) so you need a good fast grower at least initially to help keep the algae down. Have you considered floating plants or a fast-growing stem plant that you can remove later? Hygrophila difformis, Rotala rotundifolia and Ludwigia repens are easy to grow.

As to your background choices, I agree with Aaron that the C helferi will get much too big for your tank. It is also very slow to establish itself in a new environment. C balansae tends to take a while to adjust but then grows quite well. C retrospiralis is quite hardy and easy to keep. Jungle vals will grow large and will send runners out everywhere and try to take over the tank.

Out of curiousity what exactly are the measurements of your tank? I don't think I've ever seen a 24" tall 20 gallon before.


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## RESGuy

*Purrbox*- Yes on another forum I was told the same thing about that plant, I will make some adjustments to the list.

*AaronT*- Thank you for the tips, do you know of any other carpet plants that are easier to grow than E. parvula?

*cs_gardener*- I see. Yes everyone has recommended I get a 65wt light so I guess that is the one I will get. But how much k will I need? Does it matter? I do plant to dose the recommended amount of Excel in this tank. I don't really want to use floating plants do to the fact that they may block out light for the lower plants, especially since the tank is so tall.

You are right about the need for a fast growing stem, so I'll look for that.

Thanks for the plant tips, I will be making changes to the list 

The dimensions are: 24Hx20Lx10W.

Here are pictures of the tank:

















The new list, which is probably still missing some changes:

*Foreground Plants*
_Eleocharis parvula_ (Dwarf Hairgrass)

*Mid-ground Plants*
_Microsorum pteropus_ (Java Fern)
_Taxiphyllum alternans _(Taiwan Moss) or _Vesicularia montagne_ (Christmas Moss)

*Background Plants*
_Echinodorus angustifolius
Cryptocoryne 'balansae'
Cryptocoryne retrospiralis
_


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## HeyPK

This is such a narrow tank that I think it is going to be quite difficult to keep Eleocharis parvula in the foreground without it being shaded out by the taller plants in the background. I don't know much about shade tolerance of short foreground plants, but I suspect that Eleocharis is among the least shade tolerant. 

Getting back to crypts, how about having C. parva or another relatively low growing crypt in the foreground?


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## cs_gardener

Thank you for the pictures! That is going to be a challenge to plant, I can't wait to see what you do with it.

Have you considered Sagittaria subulata or Echinodorus tenellus instead of the dwarf hairgrass? The S subulata can get a bit tall, but the E tenellus stays fairly short (it also has finer leaves than the S subulata). Both grow much faster than the hairgrass and may be better able to handle the lower light you'll have at the bottom of that tank. I've found that the E tenellus tends to form a nice carpet about 3 inches tall and it doesn't seem to mind being shaded a little by other plants. 

What about pennywort (Hydrocytle leucocephala) as a fast growing stem? It would have a completely different leaf shape and color than anything else you're planning on and it has a rather open, vining growth habit. You would have to prune it back quite regularly though or it will eventually grow out of the aquarium.


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## RESGuy

*HeyPK*- You are right, it is going to be a challenge working with this tank but I'll see. My main concern is whether the wood will fit in the tank, I sure hope it does because that is the focal point of the tank!
*
cs_gardener*- Thanbk you very much for suggesting the Echinodorus tenellus I had actually taken a look at it but I thought it was difficult to grow. But I now read the comments on it on this site: http://www.aquahobby.com/garden/e_tenellus.php (which I love to use btw) and I think I am going to use this as my new foreground plant in the place of E. parvula  It says that you need high-lighting if you want the plant to stay short and low-light it grows taller.

Hydrocytle leucocephala also is a great suggestion which I may just have to use in my tank. I will enjoy seeing it reach the top of such a tall tank! Also read the reviews on the site mentioned above. Thanks for the help 

BTW, I will be using Flourite as a substrate


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## RESGuy

New list:

*Foreground Plants*
_Echinodorus tenellus_ (Pygmy Chain Sword) *NEW*

*Mid-ground Plants*
Microsorum pteropus (Java Fern)
Anubias barteri 'Coffeefolia' (Coffee Anubias) *NEW*
Taxiphyllum alternans (Taiwan Moss) or Vesicularia montagne (Christmas Moss)

*Background Plants*
Echinodorus angustifolius
Cryptocoryne 'balansae'
Cryptocoryne retrospiralis
Hydrocotyle leucocephala (Brazilian Pennywort) *NEW*

Found 2 lights that I can afford, which one is better?
http://cgi.ebay.com/CORALIFE-65-WAT...2QQihZ009QQcategoryZ46314QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/CORALIFE-65-WAT...2QQihZ009QQcategoryZ46314QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## cs_gardener

RESGuy said:


> Found 2 lights that I can afford, which one is better?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/CORALIFE-65-WAT...2QQihZ009QQcategoryZ46314QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> http://cgi.ebay.com/CORALIFE-65-WAT...2QQihZ009QQcategoryZ46314QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Those are just the bulbs.  The first has actinic which doesn't help plants. The second bulb provides the type of light that would be good for plants. Once you put it into a light fixture it would end up hanging over both edges of your tank since the bulb itself is over 21" long and your tank is only 20" long. Do you have a light fixture yet? I think maybe I've missed something you've said already.


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## RESGuy

cs_gardener said:


> Those are just the bulbs.  The first has actinic which doesn't help plants. The second bulb provides the type of light that would be good for plants. Once you put it into a light fixture it would end up hanging over both edges of your tank since the bulb itself is over 21" long and your tank is only 20" long. Do you have a light fixture yet? I think maybe I've missed something you've said already.


Yes it is just the bulb, no I don't have a light ficture. I was planning on buying a cheap one at Home Depot though, maybe I'll make a DIY wooden frame around it so that it doesn't look very bad. I can't seem to find a 20" 65 watt light ...


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## cs_gardener

I see my problem. My 20 gallon is 24" long so I have a 24" light fixture with a 65 watt CF bulb. For a 20" long tank, you'll either have to accept the bulb and fixture hanging over the edges, get a 40 watt 17" bulb or explore different lighting options entirely. 

I don't suppose you were planning to put this tank in front of or near a bright window, were you? It would make this so much easier (at least from my point of view). I have a 29 gallon tank with pathetic regular florescent bulbs totalling 36 watts in front of a southern window. The plants are thriving, but the stem plants do turn and face the window instead of facing up or to the front. I angle the blinds when necessary to avoid getting too much light, but overall it's working beautifully. Sunlight would also help get light down to the bottom of your tank, and think of how much you'd save by not having to buy expensive lights! Well, this probably didn't help you much, and I'm sorry for that. You might want to post a question concerning your lighting options in the science of lighting and see what others have to suggest since we're pretty far off your thread title now.


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## RESGuy

*cs_gardener*- I guess I wouldn't mind the fixture hanging over the sides too much ... Thank you for all the suggestions though


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## Purrbox

I've got a Current Satellite 2x40 watt fixture over my 10 gallon tank. Since your tanks has the same length and width it should fit perfectly. With a 50/50 and a daylight bulb you would have about 60watts of usable light.

Good luck and be sure to post pics once you get this setup!


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## rs79

You're gonna have to wait quite a while for balansae to reach the top. Tonjinensis is tuny.

Aponogetifolia is probably what you want. Its a biggee and one of the easier ones to grow (just, um, sorta hard to find - but well worth it)


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## RESGuy

*Purrbox*- That light looks awesome, and perfect. Only problem is the $110 price tag [smilie=t: Thanks for suggesting it though!!

[B]rs79[/B]- I have patience  If I see Aponogetifolia I may buy it, thanks


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## Purrbox

RESGuy said:


> *Purrbox*- That light looks awesome, and perfect. Only problem is the $110 price tag [smilie=t: Thanks for suggesting it though!![/QUOTE]
> 
> I think this refurbished unit might be a bit more towards your liking price wise. I bought mine there and have been extremely pleased with it. No problems and it's been running over eight months so far.


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## RESGuy

*Purrbox*- Wow, thanks for the link, that is a better price indeed  I hope I can afford that! If I can I totally will buy it from there. Thanks again!

I think my budget will be able to cover mostly everything because I have someone who is generous enough to give me some H. leucocephala and Crypt Spiralis for free  Hopefully I'll get the rest of the plants at a cheap price in the Marketplace :mrgreen: I'm more concerned about the price of the equipment then I am of the plants though. I am also buying some Flourite that I got for only $8.60 at the SnS section of TPF. Thanks to the nice members of APC and TPF I'll hopefully be able to make a decent setup.rayer:


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## cs_gardener

I've gotten a refurbished fixture from Tri-City Tropicals and its great. Another nice thing about them is you can switch out the actinic bulb for a daylight bulb for only $5. A lot better than spending $20 or so on a new bulb.


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## RESGuy

*cs_gardener*- The light I am buying isn't actinic is it?


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## cs_gardener

If you get the one with 2 bulbs, one will be daylight and the other actinic. If you get a fixture with one bulb, it will be 50/50 daylight/actinic. You could ask the vendor to be certain, but that is how I've always seen these fixtures sold. That is why the $5 bulb switch is so nice for the refurbished fixture.


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## RESGuy

*cs_gardener*- I see, thank you


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## rs79

"If I see Aponogetifolia I may buy it"

I doubt you'll ever "see" it. You're going to have to find it.


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## RESGuy

*rs79*- Oh well, if I decide to buy some once the tank is done, I'll look for it.


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## Purrbox

cs_gardener said:


> I've gotten a refurbished fixture from Tri-City Tropicals and its great. Another nice thing about them is you can switch out the actinic bulb for a daylight bulb for only $5. A lot better than spending $20 or so on a new bulb.


Wish I'd known that when I ordered from them! That would have made it an even better deal.


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