# What to add what to add



## taz81 (Jul 13, 2009)

Ok, so I have a planted tank (duh) and I'm looking to add a good fish for the bottom strata, as I have middle and top of the aquarium covered with 3x honey gourami, 3x boesemani rainbows, and 1x male betta in a 29g. I am trying to find a peaceful but hearty fish that can withstand higher levels of light, as I am putting a 130W fixture on my tank as soon as it arrives. 

Further, I need these fish not to attack Amano shrimp, as I plan to get 4 of the shrimp. (I understand from my LFS personnel that invertebrates don't count into the 1" per gallon rule of thumb, but if you wish to disavow me of this piece of wisdom please do.) Fish that eat algae are a plus, but not required as I do still want to get the Amano shrimp. Unfortunately I can't seem to find bottom strata fish that don't mind high light. Commonly found fish are also a plus as I don't have a large selection from my LFSs, and I don't want to pay rediculous shipping prices if I can avoid it. Any suggestions?

Thank you ahead of time.


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## hamsterman (Sep 19, 2006)

What about some type of Corydoras catfish? They are pretty peaceful imo.


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## taz81 (Jul 13, 2009)

I read that they don't like too much light.  I also understand they should be placed in significant groups, (6+) which i just don't have the room for with that general 1" per gallon rule of thumb.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

I've tossed IPG right out the window. A 29gal can handle much more or much less depending on the fish species, and the bioload it provides. 

How much you keep (social interaction aspects aside) is simply a mater of your upkeep methods and dedication.

Frequent water turnovers will allow a higher bioload.

Over feeding will cheat you of a full fish population, and the ammonia will do a nice job of encouraging algae.

Now as for fish species... get your favorite Ancistrus spp. if you like. Beaufortia spp. will do nicely as well, outside of one rather rare kind that gets fairly large. Otocinclus spp. would work. I'm not sure, but perhaps Yasuhikotakia sidthimunki might be an option; I wouldn't try it with most botias, but this type might be worth asking around about.

One question... why 130w?

-Philosophos


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## taz81 (Jul 13, 2009)

130w - I got the 2x CFL fixture for super cheap  over 50% off, as well as that I have algae issues, and very low light, so I was told to increase light . 

Thank you for those species...i will be checking them out shortly


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## Natalia (Sep 15, 2008)

I would not add any bottom dwellers. Most of the fish listed by Philosophos would not do in your setup for one reason or the other. First, your lighting is way too strong IMO. If you read enough on this site you will see that the common opinion is more light=more algae. If your lamps are on indpendent swithches you could have just one out of two lamp sets working at any given time. Another option is to position the fixture 6-12 inches above the tank. If you can not fix the light, than otos and loaches are not the best fit, they do not like too much light. By the way, both otos and loaches are schooling species and do much better in larger groups. I would not get any hillstreams loaches (beautiforia or other). They requre highly specialized "river-type" setup. They need a lot of oxygen and will suffocate in a typical planted tank (search loaches.com for more info).
Most dwarf plecos will eventually reach 4" and 29G is just too small for them. Why do not you add more shrimp?


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## taz81 (Jul 13, 2009)

Thank you for that info Natalia! How many shrimp do you think i could/should have in my setup?


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## Natalia (Sep 15, 2008)

I am not the best person to advice on shrimps, but it looks like 1-2 shrimp/gal is a good stocking ratio (see http://www.azgardens.com/p-207-shrimp-amano-algae-eating-shrimp.aspx). Hopefully shrimp experts will share a more professional opinion.


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## queijoman (Jun 23, 2008)

taz81 said:


> Thank you for that info Natalia! How many shrimp do you think i could/should have in my setup?


I have approx 11 shrimp in my 1.5 gallon NPT including 5 ghosts, 3 amanos, and 3 cherrys. You can stock a tank very heavily with shrimp in my experience. they have a light bioload. But just like the person above said, the more you stock your tank the more water changes you should be doing.


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## xtremefour (Sep 30, 2008)

I personally like cory cats, but I have a horse face loach and 2 botia loaches also in my 75 gallon. My flying fox and red tail shark are also nice to see swimming around in my tank. 

I also don't go by std fish to gallonage rules. I have a real cluster f of fish and I have no problems. I also only have 1.4 watts per gallon and I think the lower light helps with algea control. 

Is your tank heavily planted? I noticed that with my tank having move plant load and good circulation I can get away with doing less water changes. And I really dont have to clean my filters to often.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Natalia said:


> I would not add any bottom dwellers. Most of the fish listed by Philosophos would not do in your setup for one reason or the other.


Strange, I've kept every single one of those species besides the dwarf chain loach under similar circumstances, and they've thrived.



Natalia said:


> First, your lighting is way too strong IMO. If you read enough on this site you will see that the common opinion is more light=more algae.


Consensus may be that, but argumentum and popularum doesn't make for a very convincing argument. In addition, it'd be a cum hoc fallacy to imply that high light creates algae only because it happens at the same time.

The interesting bit here is that if you provide enough CO2 and other nutrients, 3-4wpg can be kept without much algae at all. It's been reproduced repeatedly. On the other hand, this produces insanely fast growth with very quick, touchy response times. Harder to manage.

So yes, it's nice to turn the light down, but no, it does not cause algae consistently.



Natalia said:


> By the way, both otos and loaches are schooling species and do much better in larger groups.


So the 4-6 year old pair in my tank right now isn't healthy? What about when they don't school at all, even in larger groups?



Natalia said:


> I would not get any hillstreams loaches (beautiforia or other). They requre highly specialized "river-type" setup. They need a lot of oxygen and will suffocate in a typical planted tank (search loaches.com for more info).


Again, interesting. I have a pair of those in a 33 gal with nothing but an aquaclear 50 on the back. They're probably in around the 4 year mark getting along nicely. Tank temperature is 25c. Right now I'm away from that tank, and they do fine even with the neglected maintenance that they are receiving.



Natalia said:


> Most dwarf plecos will eventually reach 4" and 29G is just too small for them. Why do not you add more shrimp?


Strange, people breed these in 10g and 20g tanks. I've kept them in tanks this size, I have a pair of albino ancistrus spp just coming out of juvenile stage and growing fast in a 10g. I've kept this species in 20g and 33g tanks as well. They get water changes of maybe 30% every 2 weeks, and seem to be quite happy.

Why is 29 gal too small for a single Ancistrus spp.?

-Philosophos


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## Brilliant (Jun 25, 2006)

I've got some Peckoltia and they seem a little crampt in my 36x18 inch tank. They like to mozy around alot and they need some space for that not to mention the space needed for the larger structures for them to live in.

I dont recall my otos ever being sensitive to light.

I vote for 10 Amano shrimp and less lighting!


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## nokturnalkid (Feb 27, 2007)

I don't know if I missed it, but what is your filtration like? With a bigger filter, you might be able to get away with a higher bioload. But, you might already be at your max. The rainbow fish you have will actually grow quite large. If you still want to add something, a small school of pygmy corys would be nice. Also, a small school of rummynose would be nice too. I've never had problems with lights and fish. I've successfully had discus in a high-light tank. Had no problems breeding them either.


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## taz81 (Jul 13, 2009)

I go to one little dinner party and look what happens! Tons of responses! I should go to those more often .

I got my light yesterday, and it sure does have two switches.  So i'll probably keep it to one light at a time for the time being, until i feel comfortable enough to experiment .

Quijoman & Natalia,
Thank you for that, it kind of confirms what the LFS people said about not having to count invertebrates directly into the 1" per gallon.

Xtremefour,
I think the julli cory cats are cute, but i don't think I will be able to find them in my area . But I do think cory cats are a good idea, since they shouldn't be able to hurt my shrimp.

Philo,
Ooo I like the argument. I think you're my new favorite poster . I think the oto's might be the best idea, since they are smaller than the others it appears.

Brilliant,
10 Amano might be a bit expensive right away . and no NO to less lighting BUHAHAHAHAHA! err...yeah ok 65W 

Nokturnal,
I have a powerfilter. I'm glad to hear about your experience, makes me feel better if i do get those otos.

I will probably have to decide between the otos and cory cats based on whats available at the LFS .


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