# [Wet Thumb Forum]-An "El Natural" vase?



## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

Ok, here's what I'm thinking. I have a wide, shallow vase (maybe about 10" in diameter and 5" or 6" tall). Right now it has some desert soil and two succulents... What I'm thinking is of taking out the plants and most the soil, leaving a 2" layer of soil, covering that with about 2" of small gravel and filling with water. That would leave just about an 1" or so of water go grow some short emergent-growing plants... Do you think this would work? The main obstacle I was thinking was that there'd be no fish and so no waste and extra food to provide the gravel with the nutrients it would need so the plants can do well long-term... What do you think?

As for plants, so far I had thought of Marsilea Quadrifolia which seems to be able to grow in shallow water and doesn't get very tall. Any suggestions for a taller plant? I was thinking some kind of pond marginal (a lilly perhaps?) but wasn't sure if those needed lots of space or would keep in only an inch or so of water... Anybody know of any other plants that I could try?

thanks in advanced for your input!

-ricardo


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

I think with something that small it'd be a pain in the you know what keeping it topped off with water. I've been mulling over it myself since I picked up a similar vase at a garage sale recently.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I think that you could get by with 1 inch of soil a 1/2 inch of sand/gravel allowing yourself more water for the plant. 

This might be nice for snails or some cardinal shrimp? You could toss in fishfood and the little animals would digest the food into plant nutrients. 

It's worth trying. You might be able to grow plants in this that wouldn't do well in a regular aquarium.


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## javalee (May 8, 2006)

I've actually got something like this in my window from Diana's suggestion of doing soil tests. I had filled a quart jar with an inch of generic potting soil and an inch of gravel, but I also threw in (planted, rather) two lucky bamboo stalks. This was months ago and I still have it because it's turned out nice.

The bamboo is growing like crazy out the top (the way a plant in a vase should look) and I've got a clump of java moss pearling in there and a tiny java fern. There are some kind of teeny tiny beetle-like critters thriving in there (they must have been in the soil or rocks), in fact I posted about them earlier. There's only enough algae to see with a microscope







, but perhaps these critters eat it? I pour water in to top it off and occasionally pour enough to flush some out. I only just recently starting adding one piece of fishfood every few days.

I wish the java moss in my tanks looked that happy! It must be all the sunlight it gets, no direct, but pretty bright indirect all day.

I think your idea would work well. If mine were larger, I'd definitely add some shrimp. Right now, I like watching the "underwater beetles" that have continued to survive. It's just a mini-mini-Walstad tank.


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## Miss Fishy (May 13, 2006)

I have a 3 litre jar with 1cm of soil, 1cm of sand, and an assortment of plants and creatures. I set it up about four months ago, and it didn't do too well at first; the plants grew very slowly and the creatures didn't multiply as fast as usual. I thought perhaps the sand was too fine, or that I wasn't adding enough food, but the problem turned out to be lack of light. I put it under a fluorescent light (it was originally near a window that only gets diffused light), and the plants took off and the flatworms and snails are doing very well. 

I now wish I had chosen plant species with smaller leaves because it looks very overcrowded. 

From Alex.


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

Ok, so here's a pic of a vase I set up. It's not my original idea (see above). This vase is taller so I set it up differently. What's in it? About an 1" of soil under an 1" of gravel. Two or three small hygrophilia, a couple stems of R. indica, a small clump of java moss, some hornwort and two small floating water sprite. We'll see what happens in two months. I'll keep ya posted!

-rick

PS Oh! I and I think there're some mts in there too...


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I love it! And thanks for posting all the pictures recently.


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

Looks good Rick.









Here's the vase I just set up.









I figure I'll raise the water level as the lucky bamboo grows.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

You all are just having too much fun with your vases, shrimp, and bamboo. I'm envious.


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

Of course we're having fun with our vases! They're actually pretty darn cool! So far mine is doing great w/ the cactus soil (I'll post a pic later) but I've had good plant growth and no algae despite the fact that the tank is right in front of a window and gets lots of light. The same biofilm that's in my 30g has invaded this vase and I have no idea how it came about as this vase receives no food or extra organic matter.... Must be primarily a bacterial thing....

Betty: I love your vase! I bet you'll get A LOT better growth out of the bamboos than people normally get when they buy them in jars w/ only gravel... Is there anything else in the vase (shrimp, smaller plants?) I bet it'd look good too with some marsilea or riccia growing around the bamboo. Also, where did you get that vase? I like the shape of it. I'm thinking of setting up a couple of more aquatic vases around the house...

-ricardo


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

LOL

What's cactus soil?

I hope the bamboo grows better. When I had it in a bowl, adding goldie water didn't even help. Grows slow.

That would be neat... How much light does riccia like? Right now, the vase is just getting indirect sunlight cuz last time I had the bamboo in direct sunlight it got annoyed. 

Nope... no beasties in it yet. I figured I'd let the bamboo grow a bit so I can add more water before adding any beasties.

I found the vase at a garage sale.


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## Mr Fishies (Apr 9, 2006)

> Originally posted by Betty:
> 
> What's cactus soil?


I can't speak to the exact components, but what we are calling cactus soil, some would call succulent potting mix and I am sure other names exist.

My experience with cactus soil is limited to two plants I kept previously, one was a crassula argenta (jade plant) and a sansevieria trifasciata (mother in laws toungue - I didn't make that up!).

I used a product from Schultz that is supposed to be a well drained, low organic content soil designed with cactus and other arid region plants in mind.

I am thinking that it might be a good choice for a soil substrate. It does not have as much peat, compost and other organic material as some garden soils or potting mixes do so there may be less leeching of excess nutrients into the water faster than plants can use it.

I am guessing that it would not soften the water considerably either, for me that is a concern as the municipal water where I live is already in the 2-4 range for both KH and GH.


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

Ok, I apologize for not having been thorough with my first post... The potting soil I'm using is Scotts Potting Soil for Cactus & Succulents... It contains "regionally" composted materials including forest products, peat or compost, sand, perlite, bone meal and a wetting agent. It's too bad it doesn't break it down by how much of what, exactly. Those I suppose that's part of their secret "formula"...

The plants have been growing well as you can see in the pics below. The java moss has def. grown. As has the rotala... The H. polysperma, hasn't grown as fast. I seem to have trouble growing this plant. I mean it grows, but really slowly. I thought that was supposed to be a fast grower? Anyway, I'm also posting a pic of the surface scum that's also in my 30 gal.

-ricardo


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

A close up (hey, how do I attach images inline w/ the post?


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

Scum







(And part of my hand!)


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

So did you put any critters in it?

To insert an image in your post, click on the second buttom from the right and paste in the link to the image. You have to have the image hosted on a website to do it. Photobucket is one that's free.

My sunset hygro seems to grow faster than my green hygro or giant hygro or wisteria.

So what are you water parameters in the vase?


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

Ah! I thought that it had to be hosted on a website... I'll see about uploading some photos to photobucket....

As to the water parameters, I have no idea! I actually haven't tested the water! Currently my test kits are at my fiance's school where she has a 20gal "el natural" tank set up in her class room which I need to take a picture of. I'm going up there today to test her water and see about her algae prob. so I'll post the specs (and maybe a pic of her tank) later...

-ricardo


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## Miss Fishy (May 13, 2006)

The vase is looking lovely, especially the moss. That scum is very oily isn't it! At least the water below is clear. 

Are there any creatures in it? 

From Alex.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I would dip a teacup or a spoon into the water and remove the scum when it gets this thick.


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## javalee (May 8, 2006)

that scum! That's exactly what my betta bowl looked like with just a betta and water. Every day I had to "paper-towel" it off just so he could breathe.

Glad you only used an inch each of soil and gravel. One stalk of bamboo in my jar had roots that were turning black under 1" soil and 1.5" gravel.

I just dismantled my jar to put the plants back in my 10g. I poured the mystery water "beetles" that had lived there for months ino the tank too. @$!* filter sucked them up







. I'm begining to see the advantages of removing mechanical filtration.


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