# 34G Planted Discus



## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

*33G Planted - updated 15th Oct*

Back in late March I posted a photo my of 33G describing how I wished to change the layout totally and have a more Nature style aquascape. I was a little disappointed to have only received one reply, I assume my tank was not worthy of any more feedback. Here's the original thread 
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=5875

Well 5 months on I have tried to acheive what I originally intended. Any feedback would be appreciated.

BTW I realise that Discus shouldn't really be kept single. I intend finding a mate soon.

Thanks for looking. I'll post new specs if anyone is interested.


----------



## Jdinh04 (Oct 7, 2004)

In all respects, as I commented on PT, your tank is very beautiful. I really think people on the board should step it up and give as much critisticm as possible, its the only thing that keeps this hobby surviving. Yeah you might be lazy or just don't want to post at all, but your criticism will benefit a lot, so please guys give cristicism, not in a harsh way but in a way that it encourages others to make their tank look better.

George, i'm still loving that dwarf sagittaria foreground!


----------



## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Jdinh04 said:


> In all respects, as I commented on PT, your tank is very beautiful. I really think people on the board should step it up and give as much critisticm as possible, its the only thing that keeps this hobby surviving. Yeah you might be lazy or just don't want to post at all, but your criticism will benefit a lot, so please guys give cristicism, not in a harsh way but in a way that it encourages others to make their tank look better.
> 
> George, i'm still loving that dwarf sagittaria foreground!


Thanks for the support Jdinho4, it's nice to hear a friendly voice.


----------



## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

I stink at 'scaping, but you want opinions, so here goes... Pics are a little dark on my monitor, so it's a little hard to comment. Having said that, I like a little red in my 'scapes. It's a little hard to see a sense of depth here. I might consider a foreground where the width of the leaves were significantly different than your background. In this case, the dwarf sag width looks very similar in size to the fern in the background.

Plants look nice and healthy, so looks like you've got that down!

BTW, old layout looked good to me.

My 2 cents worth.


----------



## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Thanks for the feedback Bert. 

I agree with your comments on leaf shape; I plan on eventually changing to Glosso or Hemianthus callitrichoides. I swayed towards HC as it's less invasive an lower maintenance (once established).

I'm currently thinning out about a third of the Sag every week so a slower grower would be nice!


----------



## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Your tank looks great, but the Crinium looks distracting. Try moving it to the back left corner (behind the Java fern), or better use Cyperus helferi instead.

About your Discus. Are you planning on relocating him once he grows up? I mean one Discus is more than enough for a 34G, there's no room for one more. If you want to kepp Discus go with a 90G, it's ideal for housing Discus.


----------



## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Raul-7 said:


> Your tank looks great, but the Crinium looks distracting. Try moving it to the back left corner (behind the Java fern), or better use Cyperus helferi instead.
> 
> About your Discus. Are you planning on relocating him once he grows up? I mean one Discus is more than enough for a 34G, there's no room for one more. If you want to kepp Discus go with a 90G, it's ideal for housing Discus.


Hi Raul- 7

Interesting comments on the Crinum. My intention was to create a secondary/weaker focal point - the main obviously being the fern. I wanted to add little tension into the layout but you may be right, it might look better left/behind the fern, creating more of a flow perhaps.

About the C helferi - wouldn't it take up too much lateral space (the Tropica site says a width 15 to 25cm)? I would need to move the fern to the right but then I'd lose my golden ratio. My tank is only 14" front to back (20" high though). Also I don't think I have enough light at present - only 2 WPG T8 or is this enough (I have pressurized CO2 30ppm and dose i.a.w. EI)?

Regards the Discus - when it grows (and any other juvenile I may add) I intend setting up a 48 x 24 x 24" with the works, MH or T5 overtank, pH controller etc.

Thanks for taking the time to pass comment.


----------



## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Nice tank. Please understand though that sometimes post do get lost in the shuffle. I have avery good visual memory but I don't remember your tank, I apologize that I missed it. Also, at APC we strive to encourage indept, justified answers so sometimes people won't say much if they don't have time to give a proper answer

I agree about the Crinum, secondary focal points are good but in this case there is nothing continous about it. There needs to be flow through an arrangment, the crinum is sort of out of that flow. You might consider pulling the Java mound a little more out of the corner so it does not look cramped. Other than that, very nice!


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

To continue what Dennis said about the secondary focal point, a 34g tank is too small for two foci. It's a good concept for larger tanks, but in one that small more than once just confuses things. A single, strong focal point is much more effective in tanks less than 6'/2m. I would place the Crinum in the dead spot in front of the ferns near the left pane. It's thin enough so that it won't obscure the ferns but its presence will give some continuity. 

I'd shy away from Cyperus in there, it will eventually take up a lot of room once it starts multiplying. The ferns provide just the right amount of lanceolate foliage. That Crinum would be a better choice to put behind the fern mound for some height. It's not too overpowering, even when large and is doing well in there already. Please keep some of that Saggitaria in there! It will make an excellent transition between the glosso/HC carpet and the broad leaves of the ferns. 

Regards,
Phil


----------



## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Thanks very much guys for the feedback - it is great to hear some constructive critisism from some obvious experience.

Fair point on the size being too small for two focal points. Any tips on moving the Crinum - should I trim the roots before re-planting to encourage new growth?

Dennis - Thanks for the explanation and apology for the lack of response to my original thread - I appreciate it. This appears to be a great forum and I look forward to becoming a more active member.


----------



## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

The ferns and sags look nice, do you have any before and after pictures of this tank? I want to see the growth. Nice tank.


----------



## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

turtlehead said:


> The ferns and sags look nice, do you have any before and after pictures of this tank? I want to see the growth. Nice tank.


Thanks turtlehead

This is a pic taken just after a complete strip down of my original layout (see the link in first post in this thread). New substrate and all new plants except the Java fern. I suffered a massive BGA outbreak and decided to start from scratch, luckily I also discovered EI too so it won't be happening again.

The Hygros and floating ivy were for obvious algae busting.



Growth a few weeks later - I was running 3.6 WPG T8 at this point



Removed the Hygros and went down to 2 WPG and bought a pressurized CO2 system.


----------



## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

hi gf,
nice tank and preparation. using hc is a good idea, small leaves make small tank look bigger.
ferns will get bigger create more shadow between it and sags for more separation. consider raising it an inch maybe?
you may want to trimsome of the sags in the off centre diagonal away to front[top view a '\'] leading from fern area to create a little line for flow...this makes a good place for the hc?

i agree with phil's opinion on two focal points maybe a bit much for a small tank and i'd like to add proportion is important. your use of the golden section will confirm this. so it means you can achieve a nice two focal point tank as long as it's proportioned towards panoramic view.

next is more of a question than comment, is it good idea to go in and trim the ferns when you see the tips melting?

stan


----------



## Mookka (Aug 29, 2005)

*Classic all green style!*

Hey NICE TANK

ok now for my critique (plz note im not expert im just obsessed with nature aquarium world book1!)

first off this tank is great! IMO I think you should put some green stem plant in the left corney to give it a bit more triangular feeling. I also think you could us a bit more of that crinum! otherwise its really good are you going to submitting this to the AGA?


----------



## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

gf225 said:


> Fair point on the size being too small for two focal points. Any tips on moving the Crinum - should I trim the roots before re-planting to encourage new growth?


Just pull it out and trim the roots down untill they are about 1" long, and then replant it in it's new location.


----------



## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Thanks guys.

stan - I like the "\" idea. Any tips for growing HC? I've heard it can be hard to get started. I only remove the fern leaves when they look ugly - although I will have to start trimming back more now as it's growing rather large.

Mookka - AGA no way yet - nice compliment though. Maybe next year if my plans work out re. HC etc. I'm still undecided about final layout but you guys are sure helpful. I'm not keen on stem plants - I'm too lazy to maintain them. The Crinum is establishing slowly but surely, at £18 a bulb here in the UK I don't plan on buying more! I got this one for £2 though from my local pet shop (they had no idea what it was), they just keep random plants in an unlit tank - luckily I spotted it early on!

Raul - Thanks.


----------



## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Update.

I've moved the Crinum as suggested. I've also upgraded my lighting; switched from 2 x Dennerle 3000K tubes to 2 x Daylight 6500K. There's 2 x 7500K in there too. I'm pleased with the look.

I'm still debating what to do with the sag. I can get hold of HC quite cheap here in the UK and I have free access to glosso too. It's just deciding what to do with them that's the hard part!


----------



## Nick (Jan 12, 2005)

I reckon you should try some glosso in there. I had a sag foreground and found it a real pain to keep in check-the stuff just kept chucking out runners and practically throttled my crypts. It does grow well though, and that is always nice! If you want to get some quality specimens try New Leaf in Yorkshire-they do a very reliable, quality mail order service of Tropica plants.

Nick


----------



## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

From a design standpoint, I think Sag is too tall and too wide leaf to use as a carpet foreground. I think it is more effective when used in clumps. Dwarf hairgrass would look great, or any low carpeting plant.


----------



## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Try the glosso, give it a month or so. The nice thing about glosso is it fills in very quickly when planted correctly (see my sticky in the aquascaping section about forground planting, Aquascaping Journal Series: Forgrounds) Glosso wil lquickly tell you if you want a lower forground, which I think you do. If you do decide you like the glosso but feel it is too much work, then you can try the HC. Keep some og the sag in the mid- and back-grounds as a transition from the Microsorium to the glosso/HC.


----------



## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Thanks for the comments everyone. I'll give the glosso a go soon. I have a friend with some and I'm sure he'll give me a few spare cuttings. Thanks for the tips dennis.

As suggested I will keep some sag as a transition from the glosso to the fern.

I was considering attaching some Anabius nana around the base of the fern too. It will obviously be shaded by the fern's overhanging leaves, where glosso couldn't grow. I think the nana leaf shape and darker colour will look good as a transition from the glosso to the fern. Any thoughts?

What do you think to the space to the left/rear of the fern; let the Crinum become more eastablished and leave as is or plant something else there also in keeping with a triangular layout?


----------



## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Latest pic.

I've just planted the Glosso. I've increased my lighting from 2 to 3 WPG and photoperiod from 10 to 12 hours in an attempt to get the Glosso established. I imagine my dark substrate won't help and my tank is 20" high. I'm hopeful though.


----------



## dmartin72 (Oct 9, 2004)

I'm really feeling this update! I especially like how you have filled in the left side and used the wood to the right. The glosso will help to add more depth and provide a little variety in texture. Very nice and I can't wait to see how it looks in about 2 weeks!


----------



## Nick (Jan 12, 2005)

Looking good. Maybe a couple of low growing crypts beneath the fern at the front? Make sure that those pesky Sag planlets don't start creeping into the foreground and overshadow the Glosso.


----------



## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Nick said:


> Looking good. Maybe a couple of low growing crypts beneath the fern at the front? Make sure that those pesky Sag planlets don't start creeping into the foreground and overshadow the Glosso.


I've actually slotted some black PVC pieces just in front of the sag to prevent it coming forward. You can just about see them protruding from the substrate.


----------



## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

dmartin72 said:


> I'm really feeling this update! I especially like how you have filled in the left side and used the wood to the right. The glosso will help to add more depth and provide a little variety in texture. Very nice and I can't wait to see how it looks in about 2 weeks!


Thanks, it is always good to hear feedback. 2 weeks you think, that quick?


----------



## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Glosso is fast. Perfect use of the Crinuma s an accent too. Good job! This is also one of the few scapes I have seen where I liked the look of dwarf Sag.


----------



## aquaessentials (Dec 15, 2004)

I think it's an excellent effort and I'm loving the colours - your black background really accentuates the green of the plants. Your tank is very easy on the eye and makes relaxing viewing.

I have to agree with Nick regarding the Sags - they grow like a weed and will probably overshadow your glosso not just literally but also physically, unless you heavily trim on a regular basis.


----------



## thinkfaster (Oct 3, 2005)

I'm not an expert either, but after reading the post encouraging feedback, I have no choice if I am to avoid a guilt-trip.  Anyway, first of all, it looks good. SOOO much better than before. One thing that you might want to do to get more feedback is to adjust the lighting and/or white balance so the pic has more light in the other areas of the tank. Your pic is great for submitting to a contest, but if you want as much feedback as possible, show everything you possibly can. 

I can't tell if you have the gravel raised in the back where the crinum is or not. If you don't, than you might want to do that. You can then plant something in front of it or have it totally visible. Your JFern is nice, but you might want to add something a little more "flashy" as part of your focal point. That doesn't mean go with a big plant, or a bright red group, but something with maybe a different shape planted right in the nook to the lower left of the java fern. I think the anubias there won't be the best b/c the glosso will be able to grow vertically and can provide a transition to the fern. Again, just my feedback. I think the only one who can really make it the best looking for you is you (and maybe Amano).


----------



## neilw (Nov 20, 2004)

I really like the look of the aquascape now sir, the glosso is an excellent addition and I love the way you have place it, the only problem for me is the left hand side underneath the bogwood and ferns. Something needs to happen there in my opinion it looks 'cold'


----------



## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Some interesting points raised that I'll bear in mind - thanks again.


----------



## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Update. Glosso is doing well.


----------

