# Safe Worms/Invertz for Substrate?



## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Is there an aquatic worm that will live in the substrate that is safe, or even an occasional food-source for curious fish?

I recall many years ago some discussion on this but have no idea where to look for that.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

blackworms. They'll bring up mulm above the cap substrate though.


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## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

mistergreen said:


> blackworms. They'll bring up mulm above the cap substrate though.


Where do you get them?

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## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

Nevermind.. I found some places on the internet! Looks like they won't live very long in an aquarium though. 

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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

GadgetGirl said:


> Nevermind.. I found some places on the internet! Looks like they won't live very long in an aquarium though.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


I can see that in a plain gravel tank, they don't have any food but in a dirted tank, plenty.


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## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

mistergreen said:


> I can see that in a plain gravel tank, they don't have any food but in a dirted tank, plenty.


I would def like to try it!

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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

People raise them in clean water, plenty of O2, mild temperature, and feed them vegetable scraps.


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## BoFish (Sep 20, 2020)

I also am planning on keeping worms in the substrate of a tank I'm working on right now (dry-start). 

I recall a post warning of the worms' potential to introduce disease into the tank, unsurprisingly they are not farmed in the best conditions. The recommendation was to keep the worms in quarantine and feed them a few times to purge any nasty bacteria or parasites from their guts.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

BoFish said:


> I recall a post warning of the worms' potential to introduce disease into the tank, unsurprisingly they are not farmed in the best conditions. The recommendation was to keep the worms in quarantine and feed them a few times to purge any nasty bacteria or parasites from their guts.


You may be confusing blackworms with tubifex worms, which have a reputation for causing problems. I've never heard of black worms causing disease. Our aquarium club has been buying blackworms form California and distributing them to members for years.

Here's an earlier thread on black worms. There have been many discussions about them.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Thanks y'all for the replies!!! I'll look for some black worms after my new tank is up, running and has had some time to settle in and build up some food for them. My substrate will be Seachem Flourite so it may be a while till I've built up an ample food source.


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## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

dwalstad said:


> You may be confusing blackworms with tubifex worms, which have a reputation for causing problems. I've never heard of black worms causing disease. Our aquarium club has been buying blackworms form California and distributing them to members for years.
> 
> Here's an earlier thread on black worms. There have been many discussions about them.


What do you consider a good source? The one mentioned on that thread is sold out.

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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Looks like the California farms are down since the heat wave. The worms don't do well in heat. You'll have to wait till winter to get blackworms.

You can find them wild in your area if the temperatures are normal.

***
Oh, looks like there are small portions on aquabid.com


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## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

mistergreen said:


> Looks like the California farms are down since the heat wave. The worms don't do well in heat. You'll have to wait till winter to get blackworms.
> 
> You can find them wild in your area if the temperatures are normal.
> 
> ...


Does $70 for 1/4 lb sound right? Seems expensive

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## Weaveman (Dec 13, 2019)

I raise mine in this file cab/worm condo. Clean water is the key. Once weekly 100% wc with primed tapwater for minerals, about an inch deep. If I skip there may be a foul odor or die-off.
They are in safetsorb about 2 grains deep. This helps break up their bodies for asexual reproduction, and I swirl the pebbles with my fingers vigorously during w/c.
The reason for 3 seperate populations is the population occasionally dips in one tray before making a fast comeback.
I feed them hikari algae wafers, 1/2 tab broken up per week per tray.
My fish seem very invigorated after eating them. Small ones like my gudgeon and neon tetra shake like crazy when they get one down and it starts wiggling inside.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

GadgetGirl said:


> Does $70 for 1/4 lb sound right? Seems expensive
> 
> Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk


On aquabid you can get a small portion for $7.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Weaveman said:


> I raise mine in this file cab/worm condo. Clean water is the key. Once weekly 100% wc with primed tapwater for minerals, about an inch deep. If I skip there may be a foul odor or die-off.
> They are in safetsorb about 2 grains deep. This helps break up their bodies for asexual reproduction, and I swirl the pebbles with my fingers vigorously during w/c.
> The reason for 3 seperate populations is the population occasionally dips in one tray before making a fast comeback.
> I feed them hikari algae wafers, 1/2 tab broken up per week per tray.
> My fish seem very invigorated after eating them. Small ones like my gudgeon and neon tetra shake like crazy when they get one down and it starts wiggling inside.


Nice setup. I was thinking about raising and setting up an air driven sump for the worms so the water quality would be good. Also I saw that blanched veg seem to be their favorite. They're pretty slow growers so I wonder if it's worth it.


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## Weaveman (Dec 13, 2019)

Enough grow for a healthy pinch of worms per tank each week. I had 2 airstone driven tubs for 6 mo and couldn't stand the noise. Haven't seen any difference in numbers with weekly w/c, although I stir up the gravel to break up their bodies, supposedly what the air bubbles would do. 
I also never had much luck with blanched vegetables compared with algae wafers, not sure why. I don't clean the 3 drawers as they feed on biofilm, supposedly what they actually feed on when ppl put strips of brown paper in to decompose. Couldn't stand that mess. A local lfs sells these cheap, i just like to experiment.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Weaveman said:


> Enough grow for a healthy pinch of worms per tank each week. I had 2 airstone driven tubs for 6 mo and couldn't stand the noise. Haven't seen any difference in numbers with weekly w/c, although I stir up the gravel to break up their bodies, supposedly what the air bubbles would do.
> I also never had much luck with blanched vegetables compared with algae wafers, not sure why. I don't clean the 3 drawers as they feed on biofilm, supposedly what they actually feed on when ppl put strips of brown paper in to decompose. Couldn't stand that mess. A local lfs sells these cheap, i just like to experiment.


What city is this in (the local lfs)?


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## Weaveman (Dec 13, 2019)

Sarasota


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## Hank Junior (Oct 1, 2020)

Dear members, have only just joined this forum today and by chance I noticed a post about worms. 

I have a 3 week old 30cm cube tank set up for growing plants which is doing well. I bought plants from a few places and managed to evict some snails (hopefully won't see anymore soon) but one particular store in Sydney Australia where I bought some moss from had some moss growing in a tank with fish in it, and has introduced some worms into my tank. 

They are about 1/4 inch or 5 mm long and completely clear (see-thru) and right now I have a bit of a worm tank going on. I was worried that they may be parasitic but as I have no fish in my tank I can only assume they are safe for fish and will be fish food one day? They look like slivers of glass and I initially mistook them for plant debris. They are so great in number now that when I turn on my eheim surface skimmer some get sucked into the filter. Its a filter I only turn on occassionally to clear the surface of the water and to clear the tank water.

Seems that my tank is an ideal environment for them. I can only assume they are eating the plant debris. My plants are in small platic tubs in Amazomia soil (ADA), its a bare floor tank if that makes sense, so I have no idea if they are in the substrate (the individual pots) or not? I see them on the walls of the tank and in the water when the pump is on blowing them around the tank. 

Any idea what these could be? I was thinking they were fish food at the store I bought the mosses in? One is 'christmas tree' the other is another kind of moss. Are black worms see-through like glass?

Regards, Hank


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Hank Junior said:


> Dear members, have only just joined this forum today and by chance I noticed a post about worms.
> 
> I have a 3 week old 30cm cube tank set up for growing plants which is doing well. I bought plants from a few places and managed to evict some snails (hopefully won't see anymore soon) but one particular store in Sydney Australia where I bought some moss from had some moss growing in a tank with fish in it, and has introduced some worms into my tank.
> 
> ...


A picture might help. My guess is detritus worms or maybe nematodes.
https://modestfish.com/worms-in-fish-tank/


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## Hank Junior (Oct 1, 2020)

Thks, yes would seem to be detritus worms. They are the white straight lines in image, on the back aquarium glass. The blurred lines are moving ones - they move in a straight line like a worm. Largest image I can send, hopefully it is viewable.


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## Hank Junior (Oct 1, 2020)

There are about 100x more than in that image I sent last. My tank has become a worm-farm! Good for nitrogen cycling a tank for fish I guess as they are alive. I also have a creature that looks alot like a mosquito larvae (introduced from the same carpet moss) but swims very fast and does not breath from the surface or wriggle like mossie larvae do. He is hard to spot - hides alot. I did have an Aussie waterboat man bug I rescued from a spider web in another tank but that is a long story. He is long gone - decided to move out and I have no idea where he is now. In my area boatmen are in every public swimming pool. They are very common.


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## Hank Junior (Oct 1, 2020)

If people are wondering why I am on this forum, as I clearly have a Hi-Tech setup with CO2 injection, the reason is I am intending to transition to a natural method. Just waiting for my Walstad book to arrive - am keen to try it out. The transition may take me months, maybe years? Its early days. Right now I am using Seachem ferts etc but am planning on using soil very soon to see what happens.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Hank Junior: What you show in your photographs are not blackworms. Blackworms are reddish, about 3 mm thick and about 1-3 inches long. I don't know what yours are, but I'll bet there's a fish that would like them.


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## Hank Junior (Oct 1, 2020)

OK thks, the worm link was useful - pretty sure its detritus worm now, but the info about black worms helps.


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