# the next AGA convention



## Jeff Kropp (Apr 25, 2004)

This message is to all local planted aquarium clubs.

I am working on behalf of sfbaaps in conjunction with the AGA to plan our next national conference. We would like to see all local planted aquaria clubs represented at this convention. To this end, I am soliciting your ideas on how local clubs might participate in our next AGA convention.

What other local planted aquaria clubs are out there? Can we put our heads together to compile a list with contact information?


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

Are you saying that SFBAAPS is the official 2005 AGA host?


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## Jeff Kropp (Apr 25, 2004)

Quote from an sfbaaps member's email reply:

Here's some ideas:

- Each club could sponsor a speaker
- Each club could set up a booth showing their activities over the past year
- Each club could drum up local sponsors to advertise in the convention programs
- "Iron Chef" style competition between clubs

-Karlton Lau


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

Iron Chef style competitions sound like the most fun of the four.

Sponsoring speakers are a no go. Most clubs are still too small and not so well endowed to fund that.

Setting up a booth would be nice, and would help circulate ideas that perhaps individual groups have come up with.

Well-established plant clubs in the United States include:

Chicago Aquatic Gardeners Association (CAGA)
San Francisco Bay Area Aquatic Plant Society (SFBAAPS)
Greater Washington Aquatic Plant Association (GWAPA)
Dallas-Ft. Worth Aquatic Plant Club (DFWAPC)

New ones:
New England Aquatic Plant Society (NEAPS)
South Florida Aquatic Plant Club (SFAPC)

There's also the new club in Houston run by Jeff and Luis, one in Charlotte run by Phil, and another one in the upper midwest (Minneapolis? Madison?). There's also a new one in Michigan forming just now. 

Hope this helps,

Carlos


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## kretinus (Jan 19, 2005)

East coast, west coast, somethings missing here, oh wait I know, the midwest.

We never get the cool shows:neutral:


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Apart from the location, what is the main deal here? Is it money? If so, why not start some sort of fund raiser? This hobby is too small for one local group to sponsor. Also, you want to encourage national participation, don't you?

Andrew Cribb


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

SFBAAPS is the current leader for hosting the next AGA conference. They're certainly working very hard at getting things up and running. 

Even if a local group is able to pitch in 50-100.00 towards a speaker that would be helpful. Sponsorship doesn't have to be the entire amount it takes to get someone there, although that would be great if it's possible. 

One thing I think would be great for local clubs to do is make up some sort of poster presentation talking about their local flora. What species are native, common, uncommon, where they live, what parameters they live under etc.


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## fishfry (Apr 15, 2004)

when IS the next AGA? Nov/Dec?


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## Jeff Kropp (Apr 25, 2004)

tsunami said:


> Iron Chef style competitions sound like the most fun of the four.


Carlos thanks for starting a list of known clubs. Could you please tell me more about how an "Iron Chef" contest might work?



Gomer said:


> Are you saying that SFBAAPS is the official 2005 AGA host?


At this point, sfbaaps is building a bid for early November of 2005 with a built in option for 2006. It will be the AGA's perogrative to reject or accept our bid. As part of building this bid we are brainstorming topics for presentations and an overall theame for this convention proposal. One potential presentation topic is that of our aquatic gardening community. I am asking for help in generating ideas about how our aquatic gardening community might be presented.


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## SCMurphy (Jan 28, 2004)

pineapple said:


> Apart from the location, what is the main deal here? Is it money? If so, why not start some sort of fund raiser? This hobby is too small for one local group to sponsor. Also, you want to encourage national participation, don't you?
> 
> Andrew Cribb


 If you mean to make money, that's not the idea, if you mean what is the sticking point then, yes, it is money. Hosting a convention is not an easy thing to pull off and the people doing the arrangements are acutally at risk of loosing their own money. The convention is run in conjunction with the National organization so be assured there is a push for national (and international) participation.

I was one of the hosts of the last AGA:


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

My point, of course, was about the need for raising money on a non-profit basis. How could you read otherwise?

Andrew Cribb


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## SCMurphy (Jan 28, 2004)

pineapple said:


> My point, of course, was about the need for raising money on a non-profit basis. How could you read otherwise?
> 
> Andrew Cribb


 Quite easily actually, which is why I took the approach I did. I'd rather ask for a clarification than make an assumption and find out later it was wrong. One might have to apologize for an unintended flame but not for being careful and trying to answer both sides of questions.

Our club started with a bank account that we had built up through our own efforts and we used that to start the ball rolling. The convention broke even so we ended up getting to keep our bank account intact.

If you have ideas for national fund raising efforts, let Jeff know. One thing you don't do when holding a conference like this is turn down volunteers.


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## Jeff Kropp (Apr 25, 2004)

pineapple said:


> My point, of course, was about the need for raising money on a non-profit basis.


Thank you for your input. Perhaps I didn't make my initial post clearly.

This thread is not about fundraising. It is for brainstorming content that might be presented. Fundraising is part of building our budget. If you would like to contribute finacially to the next AGA conference, sponsorship assistance is always wanted. Please contact Phil Edwards directly. He runs the sponsorship and vendor relations for AGA and will be happy to talk with any potential benefactors.


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Thank you for the clarification and for the pointer with regard to how members of APC can contribute financial aid if they so wish.

Andrew Cribb


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

I like Carlos's Iron Chief idea, but for a planted tank, it won't work quite as anticipated. Most designs are done not for their immediate look, but their grown in look. If you are going to fo an IC type of comp, it would be much more interesting as a base-hardscape competition...ie the hardscape that would be used for minimalist scapes...like the all glosso or all hairgrass etc tanks.

One thing that might be interesting is some sort of hands on DIY workshop. This would be a pre-register/extra fee thing. Perhaps a workshop where everyone gets to make their own inline CO2 reactor.


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

> I like Carlos's Iron Chief idea, but for a planted tank, it won't work quite as anticipated. Most designs are done not for their immediate look, but their grown in look. If you are going to fo an IC type of comp, it would be much more interesting as a base-hardscape competition...ie the hardscape that would be used for minimalist scapes...like the all glosso or all hairgrass etc tanks.


Actually, an iron chef competition involving a hardscaping competition is exactly what I had in mind. This would be excellent practice for all those involved.

Perhaps, at the end, the would-be scaper could explain his hardscape to the crowd and how/why he placed it the way he did.

That's my idea, anyways. 

Carlos


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## JLudwig (Feb 16, 2004)

Jeff Kropp said:


> It is for brainstorming content that might be presented.


Jeff,

I have some ideas... Now, not to pat ourselves on the back too much, but there are several of us "growers" that basically have culture and the tech side of the hobby licked. I can grow everything save a few species which I don't bother with. Several other older folks I know have similar feelings, and to be quite honest its why I don't really frequent the forums/mailing lists/TAG anymore. Last two years convention used up a lot of good (maybe all?) hobby firepower, I don't know who is left in the AP hobby. I think we really need to move beyond our hobby and reach outside the box a bit.

I would like to see stuff like a Bonsai/penjing master give a presentation on design. Actual botanists working with advanced tissue culture. Sexual reproduction of plants. Presentation on marine/brackish biotope construction. Advanced photography. There's a wealth of good speakers from universities which are basically untapped, SF is a great area to find some Japanese zen masters, a tour of the Japanese gardens in the city is almost essential.

Unlike the marine hobby I think we've figured things out pretty good, so I ask myself, where do we go from here and keep experienced members interest? Its hard to teach design, its one of those things where repeated exposure sensitizes and forms a better gestalt I guess, and there's a limited number of really good aquascapes here in the US. Thats why I had the Bonsai folks in mind... dunno, maybe the whole idea is nutty. But if its heavy on the "this is how you setup a CO2 system" I don't think I'll be making the trip.

Jeff


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

Hey Jeff,

You are a physical chemist, so by nature, all your ideas are nutty 

..but I get where you are coming from and I more or less agree with you. I think it would be a great idea on the advanced side of thing for a more technical presentaion etc from one of the "design masters". That and a few other advanced talks would be nice supplimentation for the "advanced" croud. Those new to the hobby should also have a workshop or two on less intensive topics though.

Your mention of Japanese gardens brings me to one of my favorite sites of inspiration:
http://academic.bowdoin.edu/zen/


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

The fact that we have trouble making Ludwigia 'Pantanal' turn bloody red like those in Asia growing it in Aquasoil makes me wonder if we really do have things "figured out."

I don't know how we have figured it out more than the reefers. They are the ones with the massive throngs of members, outnumbering plantheads 50:1. They are the ones breeding Acropora sp. corals nowadays in their huge, highly expensive reef systems...Acropora sp. are far more sensitive than any plant or freshwater fish.

Carlos


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## fishfry (Apr 15, 2004)

tsunami said:


> Actually, an iron chef competition involving a hardscaping competition is exactly what I had in mind. This would be excellent practice for all those involved.
> Carlos


I remember seeing pictures of a competition done like this at ADA, it's a fun idea.



JLudwig said:


> Unlike the marine hobby I think we've figured things out pretty good, so I ask myself, where do we go from here and keep experienced members interest?
> Jeff


Coming from reefs to plants, I think we actually have a lot more to figure out than the reef people. Corals are pretty straight forward, keep water quality in check, appropriate light and current, and the corals will grow. I do like the ideas of the techie type stuff, that is important too. It is just as important to educate the advanced folks with things on their level, and not make them sit through questions that they have heard for years.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

There is interesting work being done on time lapse videos of planted tanks, mostly by Giancarlo Podio, but also by some others. It would make an interesting presentation for them to show their videos and talk about how they do it. The videos should be fascinating for beginners and experts, alike.


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## SCMurphy (Jan 28, 2004)

Paul, as a presentor at the last AGA, is there anything you'd suggest to Jeff that could have made your life easier? Anything that we (GWAPA) missed, or fell short on?


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

I did a workshop. There was an initial problem getting the video projector to recognize the laptop and then to get a full-sized picture projected. However, an expert was summoned, and he got the problems solved before the audience got restless. No real problem. Looking at the convention, overall, I thought that some people both in GWAPA as well as in AGA, were overworked to exhaustion, and that the workload should have been distributed, if possible, among a larger number of volunteers. The hosts should be able to enjoy the convention as well as the guests.


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## JLudwig (Feb 16, 2004)

tsunami said:


> The fact that we have trouble making Ludwigia 'Pantanal' turn bloody red like those in Asia growing it in Aquasoil makes me wonder if we really do have things "figured out."


Thats one plant and we wouldn't even know if the specific subvariety (var. "Higher price on aquabid") we have here in the US is the same as what they're growing and also how much image enhancement took place. But the other 99.9% of plants out there are growing great for some of us, some are 'either or' depending on your water (Tonina v. E stellata). I dont think aquasoil will turn out to be a magic bullet but I guess time will tell but more to the point nothing being said at the AGA conference will really help you here.

As for the reef clubs, they have no major national organization. They have MACNA/MAC/IMAC but thats more of an industry-to-very serious hobbyist group, they have no publication similar to TAG. My wife went to the last convention in Chicago (not the national in Boston) and enjoyed herself, but thought it was more geared toward wholesalers/LFS owners. Overall keeping reefs require more money and technology, this tends to attract wealthier hobbyist who have much more of an incentive to read up, hence the proliferation of books that seem to indicate the area is more mature. I think its simply a result of there being more money wrapped up in failure - folks are still arguing about fundamentals (live sand beds, miracle mud, etc) and the true holy grail, coral sexual reproduction remains ellusive. Also nothing is known about coral pathology (or even taxonomy in some cases) and from a bait side marine breeding is in general very difficult.

Carlos I also don't think I'm wrong in saying that there is a rift in the crowds at the AGA meeting. There are, for lack of a better word, the "Amano-aware" who have AJ subscriptions and are willing to spend gobs of money trying to get Pantanal blood red and what I will call those who follow the "American" aquascaping style. Its not a question of taste but of intensity . I think you know what I mean. The AGA is in danger of loosing the former of these groups as other than Amano himself the convention has typically offered very little incentive to come. What product is the AGA selling? What are the benefits of membership to an advanced aquarist? Charity is good enough for me, but I'm thinking a little bigger here. I think its appropriate to point out that a lot of the west coast masters were not at the last convention, probably for this reason (or they were avoiding me, equally valid a reason). They have the plants, they have the know-how, why come? Keep this is mind when coming up with ideas.

Jeff


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## jsenske (Mar 15, 2004)

I think everyone is throwing out some great ideas and directions. The "something for everyone" approach seems like a sure winner. You have got to attract a little of everyone- advanced gurus and beginners alike. I know from other things I have been into, just knowing certain "heavies" were going to be at a particular event/convention/etc. would make me want to go- in hopes of talking with them, sharing experiences , etc. This year it would be the likes of Erik Leung, Jeff Kropp and other San Fran masters. I talked to tons in D.C. who followed ADG and knew what we were doing and just wanted to pick our brains a bit. As well, while not every workshop/talk interested me, there was sufficient ones that did. I think a mix of aquascaping, tech (lo and hi), photography, and 1 wild card like jLudqwigs fantastic idea for bonsai or zen gardener type would be awesome. Carlos' Hardscape Challenge sounds really neat- you know that would be fun to watch also- one night after dinner- who wouldn't want to check that out? I'll tell you too- there is some AMAZING rocks native to the Bay Area (Johnson Stone in Santa Rosa- aquascapers' PARADISE! we did a job out there and visited that place and...you just wouldn't believe the varieties of awesome aquarium friendly stone- no less than 15-20 I vivdly can remember) anyway- I digress... 
We will be there with ADA product and display (we want to do a full ADA 60 cm or maybe their new "Ultimate Mini" tank (about 5 gallons and probably more practical for transport) at the booth-
plus offer some really cool raffle or auction items- (good driftwood, stone, nice product). Coupled with the absolutely beautiful (and creatively inspiring natural landscape) of the Bay Area - starts to sound like an awesome convention to me!


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Is there an update? I hear that AGA 2005 has been canceled. Can someone confirm? Does that mean the AGA contest has also been canceled or does the cancelation apply only to the convention?

Andrew Cribb


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## gnatster (Mar 6, 2004)

Directly from the AGA site, Conventions page.



> It is with resigned sadness that we announce there will be no convention for 2005. While several local clubs expressed interest in hosting a convention, only one actively pursued a proposal. Unfortunately, it could not be completed in time for a November 2005 convention. However, we are seeking 2006 proposals now! [Note for prospective clubs: proposals may be made for convention dates anytime in the year, but we do have a deadline of 9 months prior to the proposed date. Please contact Scott Hieber with any questions.]


I do not know about the contest.


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

I know a lot of folks are going to be very disappointed  Of course, you all are welcome to come visit me in the middle of nowhere (we do have a couple of hotels). There really isn't a lot to do in town - but there is Kerr Lake for those of you who might want to wallow in the lake


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Gnatster,

Thanks for the update. I looked around the AGA web site before posting but did not see that message. Perhaps I couldn't see the wood for the trees or the announcement was not suitably highlighted.

*CONTEST*

I imagine the disappointment over the convention cancellation might well be mitigated by continuing to have the contest. The contest does not require physical attendance anyway. If the contest is also cancelled, then we should jointly get something to replace it. The ADA is too early. We need a US-based open-for-all-worldwide contest in October or November.

Andrew Cribb


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## shieber (Jan 23, 2004)

*RE AGA Contest 2005*



gnatster said:


> Directly from the AGA site, Conventions page.
> 
> I do not know about the contest.


The deal with the convention is basically a matter of time and prospective hosts. It takes a certain amount of time to get all the work and arrangements done that are necessary to do a convention well, and there simply isn't enough time left in 2005, at least not without very high risks of disappointing attendees, overworking host club volunteers more than anyone has a right to do, getting vendors/sponsors to sign on (there' calendars for 2005 are pretty much filled by now), etc.

One or more clubs are working towards proposals to host in 2006.

But, luckily there's no reason for us not to have an Aquascaping Contest in 2005. The contest and the convention have always been two separate activities. The common element for the past several years has been the announcement of the contest winners at the convention banquet. Also, last year, with a new idea from GWAPA, all the entries were displayed at the convention.

Btw, if someone wants to help out with the contest, please let me or one of the other AGA folks know.

sh


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Thanks for the good news.

Andrew


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## SCMurphy (Jan 28, 2004)

This way no group is rushed to try to have another over the top convention like last year. They can take their time and assemble an outstand group of speakers and activities. But most importantly, it makes it even easier for me to convince my wife that I should go to the European Cryptocoryne meeting in the fall.


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

The following year's meeting will be a humdinger though, so it's going to better for 2006. Enough time to work through things and to make it even better!

We do this hobby out of the interest for the weeds.
So we should have fun and not stress too much about it.
2005 would have taken much of the fun out and this way we can really promote things and tease folks that have been denied for 2 years of a meeting!

Getting input from the general AGA membership about who and what they most want to see at the meeting is a good idea.

There is a need for new things. Jeff mentioned this. There is a need for return to the basics for a group of folks. There is a need for a specific focus on more advanced issues.
Hands on workshops for scaping. We learn by doing, so doing the scapes for those interested, rather than having them watch someone doing it would be better. 

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Jeff Kropp (Apr 25, 2004)

plantbrain said:


> Hands on workshops for scaping. We learn by doing, so doing the scapes for those interested, rather than having them watch someone doing it would be better.


Ooh theres an idea! A couple of dry tanks, a selection of materials, everyone trys their hand for a bit, takes a pic, then lets anouther try with the same selection. An ongoing challenge.


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