# all in one "easy" ferts?



## newguy (Mar 18, 2006)

Hi, 

Are there any ferts that include micro +3x macro all in 1 bottle? 

i know the seachem micro + 3x macro = 4 bottles are the standard. However i am trying to cut down on maintenance time as much as possible and the tank already has eco complete. I wasnt planning to do any ferts but figures if such all-in-one product exist it wont be terrible to drop in a few ml every week. 

thanks


----------



## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

The reason there is no all-in-one is because some nutrients will react with others and cloud you water and may be non-usable to the plants.

You can get dry fertilizers with everything mixed together except the phosphates. Then you'd only have to dose 2 sets of ferts instead of 4 or more.


----------



## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Right here:
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm

And I've heard there's discussion about getting the KH2PO4 to play nice with this mix over on UKAPS. I'd imagine you could simply dose the PO4 separately if it's a problem. I haven't tried it myself, so I can't offer tons of insight.

I dose 2-3 bottles my self; K+ based stuff in one (even the PO4  ), trace and magnesium in another. Calcium is something I rarely put in given the water around here, so it has its own bottle.


----------



## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Well eat my grits!! I was just CERTAIN there was no such "all-in-one" fert. Is the Tropica a dry mix or liquid?

-Dave


----------



## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

I really don't know tons on this mix; it's just somewhere to look. 

I've ruined tons of batches of ferts just goofing around, and I can say that you'll want to track down the posts related to this formula. Still, James' planted tank guide tends to be pretty good about thing. You could probably contact him to ask how he puts it all together.

I do my 2 bottle thing mainly because it's a whole lot less effort; 2 bottles yes, but still 1 bottle a day with no need to worry about stability. I dose the calcium on water changes, maybe a little mid week; it really depends on the tank and whether RO is involved.


----------



## newguy (Mar 18, 2006)

hmm interesting: http://www.tropica.com/article.asp?type=news&id=687

however i am confused if this product contains only N and P, or NPK + traces. It seems to contradict itself:



> PLANT NUTRITION+ liquid contains nitrogen (N) and phosphorus (P)


then it says



> PLANT NUTRITION+ liquid contains, in addition to micro-nutrients, all essential macro-nutrients.




anyone dosing their tank with only this product and nothing else?


----------



## JamesC (Jul 26, 2005)

Tropica Plant Nutrition (TPN) is the same as the old Tropica Master Grow (TMG) that used to be very popular.
TPN+ is the same as TPN except has added N and P. So it contains NPK Mg and traces. I have been fairly reliably informed that N comes from ammonium nitrate and P from potassium phosphate.


Quite a few people use the All In One solution that I have detailed and so far it seems to work fine. There's a few of us who are lazy and use dishwasher peristaltic pumps to dose this solution on a timer.

I always add the traces to the water last, but may or may not make a difference. The traces I use are EDTA based ones. I tried using DTPA traces but the solution started separating after several days. With the EDTA based traces I kept a bottle for nearly a year and is was still clear with no precipitate. The one thing you have to watch is that you don't make the solution too concentrated. I have dosed EI levels into my tanks with no problems but it does mean you need to add more solution every time as it's less concentrated. I add about 100ml a day which is fine for me as I have a 2.5 litre bottle in the cupboard and it's dosed via the dishwasher pump automatically.

I've got no ideas how Tropica keep their solution stable, though they do use Fe-HEEDTA. Also TPN+ is lean on PO4. I just enjoy trying different things to make life easy and this all in one seems to work OK for me but I make no guarantees. I've been told that replacing the potassium sorbate with methyl parabens also works.

James


----------



## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

I've got to mix some ferts up in the next few days anyhow, so I'll give mix #3 a try. It looks not too far off what I already do in two separate bottles, even in concentration. Is the potassium sorbate and ascorbic acid intended for any function other than preventing mould? Does it prevent precipitation in any way? I'm partial to HCl since I've got it sitting around.

The one issue is that if I mix these two solutions together as I've already got them, I find a precipitate that looks sort of like dead skin floating around. Even a few drops of the micros in the macros does this. Any thoughts?


----------



## nfrank (Jan 29, 2005)

i use a "2-step" fertilizer which i find easy for me. 

A mixture of dry KNO3+KH2PO4 i shake up and dissolve weekly in 2 L water(currently 3Tbs:1Tbs ) together with TPN. 

After a weekly 50% water change, I add ~1ml TPN/15L (leaner than label directions for my soft water) and then add NPK into 200 gallons (800L) over the course of a week. The 200L represent 3 tanks with different plant needs, so some tanks get a little more macros than the others. Day of the water change, each tank gets TPN and an initial dose of the macro brew. 

I never see any precipitation.

I have been using TPN (TMG) since i met Claus in ~1995, and have never regretted it. Habits die hard, so i am still using it even after the big price increase in north america. I assume that is due to increased shipping costs, which i hope will eventually be reversed.
--Neil


----------



## JamesC (Jul 26, 2005)

HCl works fine with preserving trace solutions but I found it didn't work with the all in one. I found ascorbic acid worked well as it not only kept the solution acidic but also is a good anti-oxidant. It also reduces iron (III) to Iron(II) which explains why the solution turns from brown to green after a few hours. Interestingly Tropica's all in one TPN+ is also green in colour compared to their standard TPN which is brown. The potassium sorbate is just a mould inhibitor that possibly you could omit.

When I make the solution up I add to the chemicals to the water in the following order:
Potassium nitrate
Potassium phosphate
Potassium sulphate
Magnesium sulphate
Ascorbic acid
Potassium sorbate
Give it a good shake to get dissolved
EDTA traces

It is kept in the dark all the time which often can make a big difference.

I've also done a modification on this recipe where I have replaced some of the potassium nitrate with urea which went in first to be dissolved. Seemed to work fine as well and didn't seem to produce any ammonia smells when I sniffed the bottle.

James


----------



## nfrank (Jan 29, 2005)

Hi James,
what concentration of urea have you used? As you know, lack of smell of Ammonia is not the only test of stability since NH3 and NH4+ are in equilibrium and tend to be NH4+ in acid environment.

Postitive experience with urea is helpful, since many solid ferlizer products (for substrate use) include urea, which should be much safer and longer lasting than ammonium salts.
-N.


----------



## JamesC (Jul 26, 2005)

nfrank said:


> Hi James,
> what concentration of urea have you used? As you know, lack of smell of Ammonia is not the only test of stability since NH3 and NH4+ are in equilibrium and tend to be NH4+ in acid environment.


That is very true and to be honest I've got no idea what is happening to the urea in the bottle. I just presumed that some ammonia would have been produced if the urea hydrolysed and being in a closed bottle I would have smelt it.

I used 0.5ppm of urea based on weight dosed daily. This amount was only derived by me searching the forum and seeing what others had done. There's a thread I started on dosing urea here - http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilizing/57937-ammonium-urea-nitrogen-source.html

James


----------



## newguy (Mar 18, 2006)

fellas you all seem to forget the whole point is to make it easy and save time  mixing your own stuff is fun but not easy or a time saver! 

I called up big als, and also had an email exchange with the tropica sales manager (he was surprisingly responsive). Unfortunately there is no US store that sells tropica nutrition plus... big als only has the non plus version.


----------



## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

Just curious where could we get a source of Urea? are there any commonly available ferts that can be bought that are pure urea? Also how would one go about converting X amount of Urea added into ppm of N that the amount adds?


----------



## nfrank (Jan 29, 2005)

pure urea is CH4N2O. By mass, N is ~47%. Pure urea is very water soluble and colorless.

One urea product used for fertilization is ureaform, but this is relatively insoluble and i believe is the reason it is considered to be slow release form of N in terrestrial fertilizers. I think this would be very suitable to use in the substrate. In fact, Jobes sticks includes this in their product.

For water soluble urea, there are readily available forms and some are free!

Dry product is cheap . One bag will last a really long time. Urea Fertilizer

Let me know how it goes if and if you get green water. With ammonia it is almost instantaneous


----------



## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

anyone with a chem background? I need to figure out the formula to calculate how much Urea will raise N levels in my tank. Ideally i would like to know how to figure out how to make a solution and calculate the PPM in N that it adds to a 60g water column.


----------



## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Urea is 28.01344/60.06g/mol N

Just multiply what ever concentration of N you want by 2.143971 (or however many digitis of 60.06/28.01344 you like) to get the required level of urea.


----------



## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

blah! now i remember why i never took any sort of chem classes! I have to be honest i really don't have any idea of where those numbers came from.. but if i am following this is simple terms, out of the 3ppm N i am currently adding from KNO3 daily, if i wanted to change it to 2ppm N from KNO3 and start adding 1ppm N from urea, i would need to add roughly 4.6grams of urea to the 60gallon water column? 

Further more, if i wanted to mix this into a solution along with my KNO3 and KH2PO4. Added to 500ml H20 I would need roughly 239.2grams of urea for each 9.6ml dose to add 1ppm N via urea?

Sorry for all of my questions, just trying to better under stand so i can experiment. This seems like a lot of Urea for the solution to dose 1ppm N, my math my be TOTALLY wrong! Also anyone with experience, is this to much Urea on a daily basis??


----------



## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Heh, the fertilizer discussion is paralleling between here and TBR a whole pile right now. You may want to read Tom's posts here before continuing.

If you feel like doing the urea thing for the sake of experimenting, I'd be happy to help with the math. I'm going to be busy for the rest of the day here, but I can do some stuff in the evening if you want a thorough look over the entire thing with considerations for NH3/NH4 toxicity.

Real quick though, the numbers you have are off. 1ppm N in 60 gal would be 973.8975222mg. I used this formula:

=60.06/14.00672*227.124707

where 227... is 60 gal in L. I'll get you a more detailed explaination (as well as some simplified conclusions) when I've got a little more time.


----------



## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

thanks for that link! seems that Tom thinks there would be little added benefit from adding urea to a fert routine then eh? along with the idea that a tank already probably gets a fair amount of ammonia from a decent fish load? makes since in that respect... im curious to see how lowering KNO3 doses while still providing N from another source would affect leaf structure, colors along with growth rates...

I appreciate any help you would be willing to give me with the math of things.... like i said i have no chem background. its hard being experienced and in a respect completely un-experienced all at the same time!


----------



## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

If what Tom says about enzymes and NH4 is true, then on the extreme end it'd just push out greener plants IMO. Plenty of nitrate with other nutrients reduced seems to do that.

I know what you mean with the math; moving to a new area from a familiar one within the hobby is hard. It's like you've just become no good at something in an area you consider yourself a specialist in. I've felt the same every time I look at a salt water tank and wonder.

Most of the math isn't too bad once you understand it. Without getting overly detailed, it's basically just working with atomic weights. I'll run you through the math, but it wouldn't hurt for you to look over the sciences end at wikipedia so you know what a mol is precisely, and why molar mass isn't the same as atomic weight.

Nitrogen weighs 14g/mol, oxygen about 16, potassium in around 39. I usually use the exact weight listed on wikipedia, but we'll round off for this example. When we're looking at something like KNO3, it's the combined ratio for all of these constituent atoms:

1 potassium = 39
1 nitrogen = 14
3 oxygen = 16*3 = 48

48+14+39 = 101

So the total molar mass of KNO3 is roughly 101g/mol.

Now lets say want to dose a certain level of N from KNO3.. 1ml for every L is a good place to start; 1ppm.

Nitrogen is 14g/mol compared to 101g/mol for the rest of the molecule. So how many 14g's is in 101g?

101/14 = 7.2143

That's how much you need to multiply by to get the needed quantity of KNO3 for 1ppm of NO3.

To find out how much N is in a weight of KNO3, just reverse things:

14/101 = 0.1386

And multiply that number by your weight in KNO3.

This simple concept is the basis of most of what I do, and it'll give you good results. You can work outward from this point slowly, until you're casually working with larger equations that take into account more variables. I do this with spreadsheets so that it's possible to get entire dosing regimens from target ppm's that I enter.


----------



## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Back to the 'all in one easy ferts':
I mix my own, and make 2 batches. Then fertilize on alternate days, so that only one bottle is used each day. Yes, it takes a few minutes to mix it up. 

KNO3 (I test, and mix as needed. Not much, my tanks have a lot of fish)
K2SO4 (My plants seem to use more K than anything else)
KH2PO4 (I have tested, and all the tanks show some PO4, but the level varies. Maybe one day I will set up to dose and test only the tanks with the lowest level of PO4) (The variable levels are not linked to algae, either)

Mix and dose 3 days per week. 

CSM+B
Chelated Iron (I have tested for iron, and the results are inconclusive. The test turns a color not on the card.)

Mix and dose 3 days per week. 

Once you have figured out how much of each nutrient your tanks need, you can make your own. I would not want to buy a pre-mixed all in one fertilizer. It might not be the correct balance for my tanks. This is why Seachem makes several individual fertilizers instead of just one blend.


----------



## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

Thanks for the quick over view Dan, i appreciate it. Its defiantly an area i have been wanting to get more into, possibly using some different sources for N to play around with.

Sorry to have gotten that a bit off topic all!


----------



## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Diana K said:


> Back to the 'all in one easy ferts':
> I mix my own, and make 2 batches...


Your recipe runs the same basic balance that mine does. I do a few other things, but the principle of macro/micro days creates some easy, reliable stability. The all-in-one thing has some controversy behind it for PO4 stability; I think there's a need for focus on this issue. Tom is talking about stability over on the PMPD thread's origin, and it's something sort of established as an issue, but I'm not aware of the precise chemistry behind the issue. My current knowledge of ligands isn't good enough to play these equations out.

For right now, I don't tend to be overly cautious, but I don't see switching between two bottles as any real inconvenience. I think this is a great direction to head in, it's something I'm going to try to contribute to, but it's not something that I'm going to advocate until there's some more answers.

Maybe we'll get lucky and one of the guys over at Tropica can offer some insight. Does anyone know if their staff pops up on here, or any english-speaking forums?

Mrsanders, the sidetracking made for some great discussion. If you've got questions, you can always PM me; I try to help where I can.


----------



## nfrank (Jan 29, 2005)

one of the things that makes the tropica product so good is the stronger (but presumably more expensive) chelators that they use (HEEDTA and DTPA). I am assuming that the composition is the same as the old TMG.

Maybe this is why the iron is more stable in their concentrate, even with inorganic phosphate.


----------



## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

This may be true of the iron, but what about the rest? I'm thinking maybe their posted analysis could tell us something about whether there's excess sulfur besides what could possibly come from K2SO4. I think I'm going to spend a while looking at this and the PO4 issue, maybe make a big-ish post about it when ever the information comes together. If anyone feels like figuring it out ahead of time and posting it go right ahead, but I'd like to do an easily referenced article on TPN+ since the fert deconstruction has already been done.


----------



## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

Has anyone over here recreated the "recipe" outlined on James' page for TPN+? If there were issues with the PO4 would that be clearly visible in solution as clumping, or cloudy water? or would it have to be dosed with plants watched for signs of deficiency, meaning that the PO4 wasnt available to the plants?


----------



## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

I always thought precipitates were the primary sign of it happening; mixing KH2PO4 with micros always seems to result in this when I've done it. There's nothing I know of that says it can't happen without precipitates though.

Your idea is along the right lines IMO.

I think the easiest primary test would be to dose this stuff for plants in RO/DI H2O with inert substrate along side what ever else is needed to complete trace elements normally found in tap water, then observe how they react. Maybe stick them through a dry weight analysis as a more advanced way of looking at the issue, presuming anyone felt like paying the $500 to do so.


----------



## JamesC (Jul 26, 2005)

MrSanders said:


> Has anyone over here recreated the "recipe" outlined on James' page for TPN+?


I know of quite a few people who have contacted me via my website who use the all in one solution without problem, also a few on UKAPS do as well.

As long as the iron remains chelated then it won't react with the phosphate. The trick is to keep the iron chelated. One way is with keeping the pH acidic. Also anti oxidants may help preserve the chealted iron. This is where the ascorbic acid comes in as it does both. To prevent any mould potassium sorbate is used.

I looked at TPN+ and made some guesses as to how they had done it. The above is what I figured they may have done. TPN+ has a pH around 5.5 and is also green in colour indicating that the iron is ferrous iron. Ascorbic acid will reduce the brown ferric iron to green ferrous iron. Also TPN+ is fairly lean on phosphate.

I'm quite happy to admit that I don't know for sure what I've done is correct. It was mainly done for some fun and I was hoping that someone with a lot more knowledge than myself would come along and offer their thoughts.

James


----------



## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

Makes me want to give it a go and see how it works out! The one thing i wonder about it is that at the recommended doses it seems really lean. Do you know of those people who mixed the solution and are using it, if they are dosing the amount Tropica recommends, or using higher levels? Also do you know of anyone using the ammonia nitrate, or have those who used it stuck to all KNO3?


----------



## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

How about a mob of us with mediocre knowledge? 

It's definitely a good post; it's gotten enough of the APC community's attention that we're sitting here examining it closer to understand what's going on a bit better.

Since I already enjoy playing around with chemistry some, I think I'm going to do some reading over the next while and see if I can't figure out what's going on within your solution with the PO4 and how it works. Since I'm already thinking on trying out your solution, I can maybe do some rudimentary tests to see what it does to plants when as many other variables as possible are removed.


----------



## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

JamesC said:


> I know of quite a few people who have contacted me via my website who use the all in one solution without problem, also a few on UKAPS do as well.
> 
> As long as the iron remains chelated then it won't react with the phosphate. The trick is to keep the iron chelated. One way is with keeping the pH acidic. Also anti oxidants may help preserve the chealted iron. This is where the ascorbic acid comes in as it does both. To prevent any mould potassium sorbate is used.
> 
> ...


*

Thanks James for all of your efforts!

I have been using your mix for a long time in dozens of tanks in N.Florida with really positive results,with a few adjustments of my own.
Its works, and it works very well.* *Keep up the good work *

Regards,
Orlando


----------



## newguy (Mar 18, 2006)

heh didnt mean for this to turn into a chemistry lesson. 

anyway does ANYONE know where to buy Tropica Plant Nutrition Plus, i am certain this is the real deal and the holy grail all-in-one doser. Unfortunately i called up every single store i know of in the US and even big als canada, none of them has it. The closest thing is tropica plant nutrition (without the plus) big als canada has, which is missing 2 key macros....

Tried to order from europe but none of them would willing to ship, i guess all the security complications with ferts...

Soooooo....where can i buy this stuff? 

thanks


----------



## JamesC (Jul 26, 2005)

MrSanders said:


> Makes me want to give it a go and see how it works out! The one thing i wonder about it is that at the recommended doses it seems really lean. Do you know of those people who mixed the solution and are using it, if they are dosing the amount Tropica recommends, or using higher levels? Also do you know of anyone using the ammonia nitrate, or have those who used it stuck to all KNO3?


Yes it is lean as it's aimed at tanks that don't have high levels of light. Quite a few people here in the UK just dose TPN+ with excellent results but it can be a bit costly on large tanks, hence the DIY solution. As a general guide I think a lot of people double to triple dose the recommended level, but spread it out daily rather than weekly. From memory 1ml per 20 litres daily is a figure that has been floated around by many TPN+ users.

So far I know of no one that has used the ammonia nitrate versions, just the potassium nitrate one.



orlando said:


> Thanks James for all of your efforts!
> 
> I have been using your mix for a long time in dozens of tanks in N.Florida with really positive results,with a few adjustments of my own.
> Its works, and it works very well. Keep up the good work
> ...


Thanks for the positive feedback. As you have done, the formulation is there to be modified to suit your own particular needs. Which trace mix have you used?

James


----------



## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

newguy said:


> heh didnt mean for this to turn into a chemistry lesson.
> 
> anyway does ANYONE know where to buy Tropica Plant Nutrition Plus, i am certain this is the real deal and the holy grail all-in-one doser. Unfortunately i called up every single store i know of in the US and even big als canada, none of them has it. The closest thing is tropica plant nutrition (without the plus) big als canada has, which is missing 2 key macros....
> 
> ...


Unfortunately i wouldnt count on getting your hands on any of this in the US any time soon. You can't buy it here.... I personally don't know of a single person in the states that uses it, for just that reason. Could always try making your own though 



> As a general guide I think a lot of people double to triple dose the recommended level, but spread it out daily rather than weekly.


That is about spot on what i was thinking would be needed with a higher light level to achieve growth without deficiencies. Just curious, im pretty sure i can get Ascorbic Acid as vitamin C, but im not so sure locally i would be able to obtain Potassium Sorbate, does it have any function as far as nutrient stability is concerned? or is it added mainly as a mold inhibitor?


----------



## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

Freshwateraquariumsplants.com ? I think they have it?


----------



## nfrank (Jan 29, 2005)

JamesC said:


> Yes it is lean as it's aimed at tanks that don't have high levels of light. Quite a few people here in the UK just dose TPN+ with excellent results but it can be a bit costly on large tanks, hence the DIY solution. As a general guide I think a lot of people double to triple dose the recommended level, but spread it out daily rather than weekly. From memory 1ml per 20 litres daily is a figure that has been floated around by many TPN+ users..


Low light (whatever that means) is one explanation. Another may be tap water chemistry, including hardness. Claus told me that the label recommended dose of TMG was based on conditions in continental Europe where i believe the water is moderately hard and rich in many nutrients. With soft water, he suggested that i could do half doses. The Tropical label for TPN and TPN+ both say 5ml / 50L. (=1ml/10L). Thus 1/20 is half dose. Of course besides tap water chemistry, there are many other dose determing factors for a particular product, including but not limited to water change frequency and quantity;bioload;lighting;temperature; substrate nutrients; plant community; etc, etc.

We all know that one size does not fit all.


----------



## newguy (Mar 18, 2006)

orlando said:


> Freshwateraquariumsplants.com ? I think they have it?


http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=FAP/PROD/APF/TMG500 ?

that's the regular plant nutrient, not the plus version. Why dont you guys get a shipment, i am sure it will sell like hot cakes on the state side!


----------



## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

LOL! One reason you dont see this stuff in the US is the Euro dollar and rising cost of importing from Europe. 

At over $100 for a 5L jug I dont see any reason to even bring it in. 
Dosing plant food is one of the easiest things to do in a planted aquarium with Dry plant food compounds.
You can achieve the same exact results with dry pure compounds any day of the week.

Its the addition of co2 I think most folks should be working on. Adding pre-measured quantities of dry plant food in an aquarium is a walk in the park that I dont think needs any further complication. 
Most folks tend to cut corners on co2, this is where most of the problems tend to be with folks. Often confusing co2 deficiency with nutrient deficiency. 


Regards,
Orlando


----------



## newguy (Mar 18, 2006)

orlando said:


> LOL! One reason you dont see this stuff in the US is the Euro dollar and rising cost of importing from Europe.
> 
> At over $100 for a 5L jug I dont see any reason to even bring it in.
> Dosing plant food is one of the easiest things to do in a planted aquarium with Dry plant food compounds.
> ...


hehe, while i agree co2 is more difficult to setup but once done correctly it's set-and-forget system that never needs weekly maintenance. Never looked into dry ferts, are you saying there are "all in one" dry ferts readily available where i can just mix the powder with correct amount of water in a big bucket, then dose a bit each week? I thought dry fertz has the same problem that you basically will have 3x macro + 1x trace powders, and each needs to be mixed individually and dosed separately.

If there is an all-in-one powder i am all for it: buy a huge bucket, mix about 10 gallon of this stuff, then just use it little every week.

Price wise for the triopica stuff, a bottle would last me at least a few months, honestly speaking for myself it makes little difference if the price is $10 vs $30, not like i need to buy it on a daily basis.


----------



## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

newguy said:


> heh didnt mean for this to turn into a chemistry lesson.
> 
> anyway does ANYONE know where to buy Tropica Plant Nutrition Plus, i am certain this is the real deal and the holy grail all-in-one doser. Unfortunately i called up every single store i know of in the US and even big als canada, none of them has it. The closest thing is tropica plant nutrition (without the plus) big als canada has, which is missing 2 key macros....
> 
> ...


I got mine shipped in from AquaEssentials in the UK here http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1038. With a only mini-M and a 60-P, a couple of 500 ml bottles goes a long way at 5 ml per 50 liters once a week!


----------



## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Dry ferts is almost as simple as 'All in one'
I mix one batch of macros and one batch of micros, and dose alternate days. It takes a few minutes to mix up, and one walk around the tanks once a day to dose. Just grab one bottle today, the other bottle tomorrow. Cannot get much easier, or cheaper. 
My recipe:
KNO3 (test your tank to see how much to use- I have heavily stocked tanks, and use very little of this)
KH2PO4: Very little. 
K2SO4: I use about 6 times as much of this as either of the others. My 'test kit' is my plants. K deficiency has been corrected with this mix _for my tanks_. 
Mix in a 2 liter bottle and dose to each tank according to size. I am fertilizing about 700 gallons (some tanks do not get any, like the brackish tank, and my carnivorous plant tank)
2 liters lasts about a week. I could double the concentration, and dose smaller amounts. Then 2 liters would last 2 weeks.

CSM + B
Chelated Iron
Mix in a 2 liter bottle and dose each tank according to size. 
This one grows stuff inside the bottle if I keep it mixed up longer. I could refrigerate it, I guess.

The fertilator here at APC has been helpful in determining how much of each to use.

If only carbon were so easy!


----------



## newguy (Mar 18, 2006)

Bunbuku said:


> I got mine shipped in from AquaEssentials in the UK here http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1038. With a only mini-M and a 60-P, a couple of 500 ml bottles goes a long way at 5 ml per 50 liters once a week!


nice find thanks! i ordered a 500ml bottle too, 35 pounds shipped (like 50 bucks?). Was going to order more but they calculate shipping cost in a strange way, when i added a couple bottles shipping jumped from 10 pounds to 50 pounds...so i will just order 1 bottle and reorder when used up, much cheaper that way.


----------



## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

Hoping some one can help, maybe James or Dan. Just curious, im pretty sure i can get Ascorbic Acid as vitamin C, but im not so sure locally i would be able to obtain Potassium Sorbate, does it have any function as far as nutrient stability is concerned? or is it added mainly as a mold inhibitor? If it is necessary, any idea of a common source? I dont think we have any home brew stores around where i live.


----------



## ashappard (Jun 3, 2006)

you can get potassium sorbate on ebay or from a local beer/wine making shop.


----------



## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

Thanks for the source... i kinnda figured i could easily find it online. I would like to not have to get it at all if it isn't really necessary. I guess i will have to though if it plays a role with the nutrient stability. hoping some one will chime in and let me know.


----------



## ashappard (Jun 3, 2006)

just a preservative, to keep stuff from growing in the solution as it sits.
brewers use it to stop fermentation.



JamesC said:


> The potassium sorbate is just a mould inhibitor that possibly you could omit.


----------



## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

Ah, i totally missed that when i was looking over things. THANKS!


----------



## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

newguy said:


> nice find thanks! i ordered a 500ml bottle too, 35 pounds shipped (like 50 bucks?). Was going to order more but they calculate shipping cost in a strange way, when i added a couple bottles shipping jumped from 10 pounds to 50 pounds...so i will just order 1 bottle and reorder when used up, much cheaper that way.


Just wondering if you got your TPN+?? If so hows it working in your tank, and are you dosing at the recommended 5ml per 40liters per week?


----------

