# Sand instead of gravel?



## marji4x (May 11, 2008)

Hey guys! new to this board and very excited about starting an el Naturale style tank. I grabbed some potting soil and I was wondering if, instead of gravel, sand could be used over the soil? I love the look of sand in aquariums but I haven't read of anyone doing this yet....I imagine there is a very good reason to use gravel, but does anyone know?


----------



## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

Sand will cause too much compacting of the substrate and lead to anaerobic conditions. Best to stay away from it.

-ricardo


----------



## marji4x (May 11, 2008)

Good to know, thanks so much!


----------



## tames (Apr 18, 2008)

Sorry to confuse you, but there is controversy on this issue. See posts by guppyramkrib. He has had a large tank running for over 5 years with soil/sand substrate with no problems. I have just started setting up my tanks with sand within the last 5 weeks, so I cannot judge from personal experience yet. I have had gravel only and gravel/soil tanks go bad too. I know several people on other forums that use soil/sand with no problems.


----------



## KatjaT (Dec 7, 2007)

My tanks are not El natural-type, but i have been useing sand as a substrate about 17 years now. Plants doing fine. Clay-peat balls and root-tabs for ferts.


----------



## isu712 (Feb 8, 2008)

I don't think that there should be a problem using sand. If you're concerned about anaerobic pockets get yourself some Malaysian Trumpet Snails (MTS). They burrow in the substrate and help to strip it up. I've been able to get some for free from my LFS as they're typically a nuisance in their tanks. If you don't like the idea of snails in your tanks you could also just make sure that you have heavy rooted plants. This will help to keep the soil stirred up.


----------



## marji4x (May 11, 2008)

Oh man that is great news! I'm at least going to experiment with it now that I know it CAN work.

I heard on ultimatebettas.com that some people use sand but they stir it up from time to time (if they don't have the snails, which they also recommended) and that keeps things from going bad.

I might use snails if I do this in a bigger tank but my first one will be a one gallong with a betta so I don't want to overload things.

If I do this I'm going to put plants in first and keep track of things before adding the fish. How could I monitor if things are going anaerobic? I am new to fish tanks and I know about ph testing, ammonia testing, and testing for nitrates/nitrites...but is there a separate test for this other potential problem or can I tell in another way?

Also, by heavy rootage does that just mean look for plants with a lot of roots? or are there certain plants in particular I should be on the lookout for?

Thanks for all your advice so far everyone! I'm gonna have some happy fish, soon...hopefully!


----------



## isu712 (Feb 8, 2008)

There's no real way to test for anaerobic pockets. You won't know you have any until one is expose to the rest of the tank and your fish die. Kind of morbid, but it does happen.

By heavy rooted plants I mean ones that form pretty extensive root systems. That way the root systems that go throught the soil help to stir it up. I know that crypts and swords form extensive root systems. Also, I have wisteria in an NPT that suprisingly formed a rather large root system. I know there are more out there but those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head


----------



## marji4x (May 11, 2008)

Oh good, I have some swords already...they're not doing too well right now (I took them out of a medicated fish tank a little too late I think). I'll try planting them in substrate tonight and see if that doesn't cheer them up a bit.

Would stirring the sand help? Like maybe daily, just to move things around? I'm worried that would make the water cloudy though since I'd probably accidentally hit some soil or something.


----------



## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

I've done some poking in the substrate to avoid anaerobic buildup for a new setup when the plants haven't sent their roots out yet. It's not as messy as stirring and it doesn't matter if you poke into the soil since the capping layer should be able to slide back into place before the soil is released into the water column. Use something narrow like a chopstick, move a bit on the slower side, and you don't have to do the entire tank every day. Just a little here or there, more in the open areas where the plants haven't filled in. I'd poke a bit every few days and it eventually became unnecessary because of the large number of Cryptocorynes in my tanks (massive root systems).

I believe one of the important things with sand is to avoid using a thick layer to cap the soil. Since the sand is fine-grained and relatively heavy (as opposed to some of the baked clay substrates that d*** near float - well, not really, but it feels like it when planting in them) you should only need about an inch or so of sand in order to keep the soil capped and the plants anchored.


----------



## marji4x (May 11, 2008)

Great, that sounds good! I'll probably be picking up a couple more plants on my way home (maybe some duckweed and one more slower-growing rooted plant or two).

Also, as far as the crushed shells that get mixed in with the soil, where can you find that? Pet stores or garden/hardware ones?

I'm so excited ^ ^


----------



## isu712 (Feb 8, 2008)

I found mine at a LFS. I actually used crushed coral though. It still gets the job done.


----------



## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

well i have play sand in my 10 gallon and i have used the pool filter sand from a pool and spa store. that is a little more grainy that will let you plant and not have to worry about the anerobic areas at all in my opinion. anyway good luck


----------



## Revernance (Aug 20, 2007)

Are there alternatives to gravel besides sand? I don't like gravel too much, because it's much too big.


----------



## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

idk...to be honest i have not heard of anything...other then kitty litter. but that i guess gets muddy after a while.


----------



## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Gravel comes in all sizes from just a little bigger than sand to clunking big pieces. 
Sand comes in all sizes from just smaller than gravel down to dust. 
Look in rock yards, masonry stores, landscape centers and soils places. 

Pool filter sand and blasting sand are graded sizes of sand that work well in an aquarium. 
There is a company that packages sand in many sizes. (Probably a lot more than one company!) Google Lapis Lustre and have a look at their charts of sand sizes. If your local store carries this brand name, they can likely get you a bag of whatever you want. 

Play sand is the weird one. I have seen it with color added, as well as the off-white, natural color. This is the one with mixed particle sizes that can compact in the tank. 

Another alternative is 3-M Colorquartz. This is a product that is created for swimming pools, but works well in aquariums, too. Go to their site, and use a search feature that allows you to find local suppliers, or call all the swimming pool suppliers in your area. Perhaps some swimming pool contractors could help you find some.


----------



## hectorjohn (Apr 2, 2008)

just a stupid question... what happens if you have anaerobic conditions in your substrate?


----------



## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Diana K said:


> There is a company that packages sand in many sizes. (Probably a lot more than one company!) *Google Lapis Lustre* and have a look at their charts of sand sizes. If your local store carries this brand name, they can likely get you a bag of whatever you want.


Just found this in my google search "Calcium carbonate can indeed be found in some of MM's so-called aquarium gravel, in particular, the two ``Lapis Lustre'' types. I learned this personally this week when I tested a tank of this at pH 8.0, 4 degrees KH; the salesperson for MM even confirmed that Lapis Lustre gravel contains some shell pieces! Great for Lake Tanganyika Cichlids; bad for dwarf Apistogramma. However, they noted most of their other small-grain gravel (such as Texas Grit) should be inert." This was from president of Greater Washington Aquarium Society, (link is found below). I guess you just can't be too careful.
http://www.gsas.org/Articles/1997/pres9702.html


----------



## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Might be a good idea to buy some Malaysian trumpet snails. They burrow through the substrate when the lights are on, and come out in mass at night when the lights are off. They would aerate the soil like earthworms.

They also don't eat plants and breed like crazy - though they are impossible to get rid of if you don't want them for some reason.


----------



## apistomaster (May 24, 2008)

Pool filter sand is one of the best because it is not sugar fine and it is reasonably priced compared to aquarium substrates. If you are only capping a soil layer the FloraBase is good.

Anaerobic decay is marked by a darkening to almost black areas and the foul smell of the Hydrogen sulfide gas created by anaerobic bacteria. H2S is toxic in only a few ppm and is to be avoided at all costs.


----------



## tames (Apr 18, 2008)

Curious, if you do have a release of these gases, how long in average would it take to kill the life in the tank?


----------



## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

I understand the gas changes and becomes harmless as it rises. And letting the O2 in- by poking, MT snails or chemistry of plant roots- stops the anaerobic (bad) decay. It's when you don't fix an anaerobic problem that it could become dangerous for your fish.


----------



## marji4x (May 11, 2008)

So how much would you need to poke? Like 5-10 times each day? I have no idea haha just trying to make my question clearer


----------



## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

I have a clay pot of E tenellus that smelled like it was anaerobic, it's 4" deep. I poked it with a chopstick all over, maybe a dozen times. Then I did it again in about a week. It seems fine now. I could pull it out and smell it. I pulled out my rocks that were on top of soil, so I wouldn't have to poke under them. My MT snails weren't trying to go under the rocks that I could tell. I have regular gravel. 
But If I had sand in these, I'd do an experimental poke around to see if bubbles came up. If you get bubbles, poke around more to release all the bubbles. Check it again after a while, and consider adding the other things: heavily rooted plants, Malayan Trumpet Snails. Just keep an eye on it. If you have no bubbles or bad smell, then you wouldn't need to do anything, maybe just give it a check poke once a month when you trim plants. Bubbles and smell= poke around again later.


----------



## Prometheus (Feb 12, 2008)

interesting...I was discussing anaerobic conditions with someone once and they said that I shouldn't be poking the substrate because the gases that would be released would harm the fish. So I stopped poking but every once in a while when I'm trimming plants or pulling something out there's a lot of bubble action. I don't notice anything smelly. Sometimes I've seen the bubbles escape on their own. Is this normal? Can it harm the fish?

I have MTS but it seems like they stay within half inch or so of the top of the gravel layer. Aren't the anaerobic conditions formed within the layer of soil and not in the gravel?


----------



## Alex123 (Jul 3, 2008)

Good to read this topic. I have been thinking about it myself prometheus. I wonder if the MTS goes below the gravel and into the soil layer. My soil layer can be seen on the side of the gravel and I have never seen MTS moving in the soil layer. I think it's time for me to do the hokey poky. The wooden Kabob skewer is good for poking around I think. It has a pointed end so would be less likely to poke the gravel into the soil. As for the bubble actions, I read that that is natural to see bubble release from the soil unless you smell something foul.


----------

