# Actually how efficient is a hagen ladder?



## lowfi (Apr 18, 2007)

Am I getting the most bang for my buck, or should I go with some other type of diffuser? And it isnt an aesthetic thing, its a CO2 diffusion thing


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

I can't comment on the efficiency of the ladder, but I get 100% diffusion by running my CO2 into one of these and then into the intake of my canister.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

I think the Hagen ladder is one of the best CO2 dissolving tools out there. The intitial large bubble ends up as a tiny bubble telling me it works wonders. I would use it more but the cons of it's looks and bi-monthly cleanings of algae/debris on the tracks leads me to use other CO2 diffusers/reactors such as glass diffusers and reactors. 

-John N.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Hi lowfi

I was curious about the efficiency of a Hagen ladder a few years ago. I was a little hard to measure the diameter of the bubbles at the beginning and at the end, but it worked out that it was ± 95% efficient most of the time, but there were variables that sometimes interfered with that %age.

It easy to calculate the volume. Measure the bubbles in mm and use this calculator: http://grapevine.abe.msstate.edu/~fto/tools/vol/sphere.html

Then you can use this formula to find the efficiency:
[(Beginning Bubble Size - Ending Bubble Size) ÷ Beginning Bubble Size] x 100 = % Efficiency.
Let's says the beginning bubble size is 6 mm and it has a volume of 904.78 mm^3. The ending bubble size is 2 mm and it has a volume of 33.53 mm^3. So:
[(904.78 - 33.53 ) ÷ 904.78] x 100 = 96.3%

Left C


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## ryzilla (Feb 3, 2007)

evercl92 said:


> I can't comment on the efficiency of the ladder, but I get 100% diffusion by running my CO2 into one of these and then into the intake of my canister.


how long before those wood blocks errode from the carbonic acid?


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

ryzilla said:


> how long before those wood blocks errode from the carbonic acid?


mine hasn't yet. I switch them out every 3 months or so, to give it a fresh one. I soak the used ones in 25% bleach, 75% water for 10mins, then wash it off and air-dry for later use.

The cheapy blocks (not sure what those are made of) erode, though.


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## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

I think the ladder works OK for low-to-moderate CO2 rates for smaller tanks. If you want to add lots of bubbles in a shorter period of time, it doesn't seem to work as well.

The big plus is that it won't clog up like the ceramic/glass diffusers and you can easily clean it.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Okay, someone correct me if I am wrong, but this is my take on the situation. I have used the Hagen Ladder before. What I noticed that each C02 bubble would slowly make itself to the top intact and when it would reach the top, it sometimes would float for a while before bursting. Depending on the bubble rate, which would decrease over time, the bubble sometimes would remain in the middle rung of the ladder waiting to be pushed to the top by the momentum of another released bubble.

Now that would seem like a pretty inefficient way of diffusing C02 in the tank. The whole idea of using a C02 reactor is to quickly force the breakdown of the C02 bubble forcing it to immediately release its contents. So even in a smaller tank, I would think that you would probably get more efficient C02 diffusion by either modifying a powerhead to accept C02 bubbles, which would then enter the impeller and be completely and immediately broken down(rather than remaing in limbo and then slowly bursting in their own good time), or alternatively making a Tom Barr type C02 reactor.
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13643

As far as more bang for the buck, comparatively speaking it costs more to purchase a Hagen Ladder than to modify your existing power head using a piece of plastic piping and air stone or buying the things(if you have access to a pet store that sells used supplies) needed to build your own C02 reactor.

If you would rather buy a reactor, I would go with this one. 
http://www.aquariumplants.com/product_p/pr210.htm
It is more expensive than a Hagen Ladder but you will get more bang for your buck and better C02 diffusion. As far as maintaining more consistent C02 output with a DIY C02 setup, so that your C02 levels in the tank remain constant. I believe the only way you can do this is to change your brew every 1-2 weeks. Have an extra bottle on standby, prepare the new brew and let it ferment for 24 hours(so full fermentation occurs without any lag time) before you switch over.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Homer_Simpson said:


> Okay, someone correct me if I am wrong, but this is my take on the situation. I have used the Hagen Ladder before. What I noticed that each CO2 bubble would slowly make itself to the top intact and when it would reach the top, it sometimes would float for a while before bursting. Depending on the bubble rate, which would decrease over time, the bubble sometimes would remain in the middle rung of the ladder waiting to be pushed to the top by the momentum of another released bubble...


Hi HS

Sometimes the Hagen ladder isn't efficient, but when it is "broken in" where the large bubbles end up very tiny like John N. mentioned; it is one of the best CO2 dissolving tools out there. This means that even though you are seeing small bubbles collect at the top and escape to the surface; it is really working quite well. Most of the CO2 is already dissolved into the aquarium water by then. The following are examples using the math involved for explanation.

It's what I'm using in the "Adding baking soda to DIY CO2 brew" thread. My bubbles really end up being 1 to 2 mm in diameter when the ladder is working normally. That makes it even more efficient than shown in my calculation above. When it is working like this in my 10g aquarium, my drop checker is a lime green color using a known 4 dKH solution. That's a little over 30 ppm of CO2 at a bubble rate of 25 bpm.

In my calculation above, my starting bubble radius is 6 mm and the ending bubble radius is 2 mm; the efficiency is 96.3%.
With an ending 2 mm diameter or 1 mm radius and the same starting radius; the efficiency is 99.5%.
The efficiency is 99.9% with an ending 1 mm diameter or 0.5 mm radius and the same starting radius.
Notice that even though you are seeing tiny bubbles escape to the surface, the ladder's efficiency is approaching 100%.

By the same token, if it's working badly like it sometimes does; the efficiency lowers very quickly. Here's three examples using the same beginning 6 mm bubble radius:
If the bubble is 50% smaller in diameter or it has a 3 mm radius, the efficiency is 87.5%.
Let's say the ending bubble radius is 4 mm; the efficiency is 70.4%.
An ending bubble radius of 5 mm results in 42.1% efficiency.
Even though the bubble's diameter is 50% smaller, it is still working fairly efficient. The other two examples show huge drops in the efficiency.

To find the volume of a sphere, the formula is: V = 4/3¶r^3 or V = ¶/6 d^3 (The symbol ¶ stands for pi.)

Notice that the volume of a sphere varies significantly to changes in the radius or the diameter. That's because it's based on the cube of the radius or the cube of the diameter in the formulas.

This is one explanation for why a Hagen ladder can be an efficient CO2 diffuser or not.

If your Hagen ladder isn't working right, fix it and you'll be rewarded with much better efficiency.

I hope this little math exercise helps. 
Left C


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

O.k., Left C I hear what you are saying. But, comparatively speaking, would you say that the Hagen Ladder is more efficient than a C02 reactor similiar to Tom Barr or the one sold by aquariumplants for smaller tanks??? It is more expensive to buy the aquariumplants one than the Hagen Ladder, but it is much cheaper to make a Tom Barr type reactor than to purchase a Hagen Ladder.

My point was that if looking at things comparatively it would be more logical to make a Tom Barr type reactor or swallow the bullet and make a one time expense on an aquariumplants type reactor if you are seeking the most efficient C02 diffusion method.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Hi HS

I can't help you much here because I've haven't used either of those other CO2 devices, but for ~ $13 (US) the Hagen ladder is hard to beat. You can buy it separately from the whole kit as you probably know. I've even used it with a pressurized system in a small tank for a while.

From what I understand, a drawback of the Hagen ladder is that it provides poor CO2 distribution like some of the other methods of diffusion. As you know, the CO2 needs to be circulated around the tank with water flow of some type. The CO2 devices that you mention are able to do this better, I believe.

I'm not seeing a problem with CO2 distribution in my 10g with the Hagen ladder, though. I'm using an Eheim Liberty 100 HOB filter in the left rear corner. The Sera drop checker is on the left side near the front. The flow from the HOB filter blows toward it. The Hagen ladder is on the right side, near the front of the aquarium and diagonally across from the HOB filter. The drop checker and the Hagen ladder face each other on separate sides of the aquarium. I mentioned that the 4 dKH solution in the drop checker is a lime green color at 25 bpm. So, it's working well in this situation.

The Hagen ladder is rated for up to 20 gallons, but I don't think that it would work well in a 20g long that is 30" long without some sort help with the water circulation/CO2 distribution.

Aren't you using an AquaClear HOB filter? Have you tried using your filter for a CO2 diffuser. I have another 10g with a pressurized CO2 system. I'm using the AquaClear on that aquarium for the CO2 diffuser. I'm using two pieces of foam in the filter and the BioMax in the bag. I'm not using any carbon, but I use Purigen sometimes. I have the CO2 tubing connected to a Tom airline elbow pushed part of the way into a intake strainer slot. It's positioned like a "L" laying horizontally on it's left side. The CO2 bubbles flow straight up this way. You could probably just insert your CO2 tubing into a intake strainer slot and it will probably work just fine. I like using the Tom elbow because it has two rings around it that helps to hold it in position in the intake strainer. CO2 tubing doesn't come out or fall off this way. It works very good and the plants pearl really well. Using the intake of the AquaClear keeps another piece of equipment out of that small aquarium. Plus, these elbows are only 4 for $0.89 (US).









Left C


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Left C said:


> Hi HS
> 
> I can't help you much here because I've haven't used either of those other CO2 devices, but for ~ $13 (US) the Hagen ladder is hard to beat. You can buy it separately from the whole kit as you probably know. I've even used it with a pressurized system in a small tank for a while..


Remember, when I told you in another thread that things were not as cheap or as easy to come by locally where I am. Well, I was not kidding. I shopped around and purchasing a Hagen Ladder seperately where I live will run you $20-30. Sometimes when I post, I always falsely assume that it is the same for everyone. If you live in the US and can get a Hagen ladder that cheap, then I cannot argue that it is probably the best route to take if you are trying to save money.



Left C said:


> From what I understand, a drawback of the Hagen ladder is that it provides poor CO2 distribution like some of the other methods of diffusion. As you know, the CO2 needs to be circulated around the tank with water flow of some type. The CO2 devices that you mention are able to do this better, I believe.
> 
> I'm not seeing a problem with CO2 distribution in my 10g with the Hagen ladder, though. I'm using an Eheim Liberty 100 HOB filter in the left rear corner. The Sera drop checker is on the left side near the front. The flow from the HOB filter blows toward it. The Hagen ladder is on the right side, near the front of the aquarium and diagonally across from the HOB filter. The drop checker and the Hagen ladder face each other on separate sides of the aquarium. I mentioned that the 4 dKH solution in the drop checker is a lime green color at 25 bpm. So, it's working well in this situation.
> 
> ...


That's lots of good information as always LeftC thanks. Time to go hunting for those Tom airline elbows. How much you wanna bet that there is not a local fish store in my city that carries these?

P.S. Check out the Aquarium plant quizz I posted in the Water Bucket Section of the forum. You may enjoy the challenge


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

I took the quiz, but ........ rayer: Sometimes a stump is smarter than I am!

Here's a better pic of the Tom elbow:









Here's some more airline tubing elbows:
Rena Airline tubing Elbow $0.29 J1365 : http://rena-aquatics-outlet.planetrena.com/Air-Pump-Accessories.html
Tom elbow: http://www.petdiscounters.com/c63/A...6468.html?PETDISCO=b5ef6b41rh2qf5mc7jt884jcg7
Two Little Fishies' Airline Fittings: http://www.twolittlefishies.com/tlf_prod_access.html?lang_id=1
CD-821026 Airline Kit 12 pc $4.79: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...x=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=2004&Nty=1
Airline Plastic Tee Piece: http://www.aquatics-online.co.uk/catalogue/airstones-airline-accessories.asp

Heck, just PM me your address and I'll send you one.

Left C


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Left C said:


> I took the quiz, but ........ rayer: Sometimes a stump is smarter than I am!
> 
> Here's a better pic of the Tom elbow:
> 
> ...


O.k. thanks. If I cannot find one locally I may take you up on the offer to ship me one. I modified my Hagen Elite underwater filter similiar to the way described here in order to use it as a c02 reactor/diffuser.
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...s/44053-tiny-super-efficient-co2-reactor.html

I didn't realize that these filters were so cheap in the US. If you can pick them up for $10, they may be worth it and a cheaper alternative than the Hagen Ladder. Where I am, there are no stores that carry them for less than $15, which is still cheaper than how much a Hagen Ladder sells for seperately where I live..

Once I get a drop checker, I may monkey around with different diffusion methods(I have a Hagen Ladder lieing around) to test for myself which gives the most consistent c02 levels over time using the same brew. My money would be on the modified filter as per link posted.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Well if you can't find one, just let me know. I pulled one out of my parts box this morning. All I have to do is to put it in an envelope, put on a stamp, address it and it's good to go. I won't charge you anything for it. Heck, I only got 22¢ in it.

For me, the Hagen ladder is good enough in that tank. The drop checker is a lime green color and I don't need to make it any more efficient.

Left C


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Left C said:


> Well if you can't find one, just let me know. I pulled one out of my parts box this morning. All I have to do is to put it in an envelope, put on a stamp, address it and it's good to go. I won't charge you anything for it. Heck, I only got 22¢ in it.
> 
> For me, the Hagen ladder is good enough in that tank. The drop checker is a lime green color and I don't need to make it any more efficient.
> 
> Left C


Many thanks for the offer, I will let you know. I know we had a discussion about this a while ago in the using/not using baking soda thread, but am not sure what you decided on ingredients in your brew. I went with 1/4 tsp lavalin yeast + 1/4 tsp baker's yeast +1/2 tsp yeast nutrient, 2 cups sugar, and about 1.75 litres water for one of my 10 gallon tanks. No baking soda this time. And wow!! I bubble per second consistent every second on the second. PH only dropped .5 from 7 to 6.5. I am waiting for the drop checker to confirm the c02 level in the tank, but so far this mix looks the most promising, just based on bubble per second count. ***Edit, using this chart. 
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm
I know this is not accurate and I will still wait to test with the c02 drop checker to get a more accurate reading, but if it is close, this may be too efficient and could be pushing close to danger levels. I may just start running an airstone at night, just to be safe. 20.871 ppm C02, lol.

I have another 10 gallon tank using the Hagen C02 yeast canister that I purchased a while ago. I am using a power head with some plastic tubing into which I have placed a air stone connected to the C02 tubing. Again, as I am still awaiting the c02 drop checker, I cannot tell how efficient this method is or the c02 level in that tank. I would be curious to try your Hagen C02 canister brew. What did you use, if you don't mind be asking. Thanks.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Which yeast nutrient did you get?

This is my last mix for the Hagen kit:
table sugar to line
⅛ tsp Fleischmann's Active Dry Yeast
⅛ tsp baking soda
⅛ tsp Soy Protein Mix
¼ tsp Flourish Nitrogen (for ammonium)
water to line

I didn't use DI water this time. I was out and I was too lazy to go to the store to get some. I boiled some tap water to get rid of the chlorine. I put all the ingredients except the yeast and the water into the Hagen container. When the water cooled to approximately 95° to 100° F, I added approximately ½ cup of the tepid water into a coffee cup. I then added the yeast and a pinch of sugar. I stirred it well. Every few minutes I would stir it. After about 15 minutes, I added it to the Hagen container. Then I added the tepid water to the line, stirred it and I put the cap on. I put the Hagen container in a basin with continuously heated water that's approximately 95° to 100° F. I had to leave and when I came back, it was bubbling 25 bpm and it has been for 5 days now.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

I was able to pick some yeast nutrient up locally. It was $2.75 per 50 grams and should last a few months at 1/2 tsp per brew. It contains dibasic ammonium phosphate. I also was able to find a brand of baker's yeast that was much cheaper than Fleischmann's. The brand is named Engedura, it comes in 100 gram tin can that is resealable(which makes it easy to store, and I can reuse the can). It is imported from France, but I guess baker's yeast is yeast, so I was looking for the cheapest. 

The mix of lalvin wine yeast and baker's yeast works great, but once I am out of lalvin, I would like to experiment with a mixture of baking yeast and Red Star Wine Yeast Premier Cuvee. I was able to order some from E-Bay at a reasonable price since it was not available locally. A couple of things I noticed. This brew worked great in the 2 litre DIY yeast bottle, but totally sucked in the Hagen yeast canister in smaller amounts, so I may try your recipe for the Hagen Yeast Canister. Also and perhaps it was only my imagination, I found that I got quicker fermentation using plain old tap water than distilled water. Where I noticed this the most was when I was preparing the yeast. I do this by placing 1 teaspoon sugar in a cup of water and heating it for 12 seconds in the microwave. I then mix in 1/4 teaspoon wine yeast and 1/4 teaspoon baker's yeast into the cup and let it sit for at least 1/2 and hour, but find 1 hour works best. Meanwhile, using a funnel I measure 2 cups sugar into the DIY yeast bottle and 1/2 tsp yeast nutrient, after 1/2 to 1 hour I pour the water containing yeast over the sugar+yeast nutrient combo and shake the mixture well, I add a little lukewarm tap water continuing to shake until the bottle is 3/4 full. Now I let the bottle sit at least 24 hours before using it to ensure consistent c02 production and bubble production when I switch over. When I added the yeast to the microwaved cup of distilled water with the sugar, it seemed to take longer for the yeast to activate(almost 2 hours) vs when I added the yeast to the microwaved cup of regular tap water with sugar, which foamed and activated within 1/2 an hour.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

According to the articles that we read, yeast needs aerobic conditions before it can start producing CO2 anaerobically. Letting it sit out, stirring it or even adding an airstone to it for a little while are ways to accomplish this.

What do you think the temperature of you water is when you zap it in the microwave? Some yeast start dieing at around 105° to 110°. Is the tap water and the distilled water the same temperature when you use them? Either of these can effect the rate.

Here's a quote from the Turbo high alcohol yeast: "High temperatures will kill yeast. Where there is no alcohol, yeast dies at 42°C, but as the alcohol increases this "killing temperature" decreases. At 14% alcohol, the killing temperature for Temperature Tolerant Turbo drops to 36°C and at 20% alcohol with High Alcohol Turbo, down to 24°C."

42° C is 107.6° F and 36° C is 96.8° F. I use a lab thermometer to check my water temperature. I know it's at 95° to 100° F when I start my mix. My basin water containing my Hagen container is 95° F to 100° F. I don't know how my bread yeast compares to the Turbo yeast. It seems that lowering my down basin to 90° to 95° F might be a good idea since we let it run until alcohol starts killing too much of the yeast and it slows down. From above, 24° C is 75.2° F. I highly doubt the bead yeast is still alive at 20% alcohol at 75.2° F like the Turbo yeast. It's probably dead before it's 14% alcohol or at a temperature of 96.8° F, again like the Turbo yeast.

Here's a proofing bread yeast test. It says to use 110° to 115° F for the test. This test makes sure that the yeast is still active. http://www.baking911.com/howto/yeast_proof.htm

My mix starts up in about 20 minutes and it takes a little over an hour before it is full blast.

This last mix was the first time that I used tap water.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Hi, I have not used a thermometer to measure the water after microwaving it for 12 seconds and have heated distilled water and tap water the same way. I have used the old baby bottle method of checking and the water is usually lukewarm to the touch. I don't think that the temperature is too high as the yeast usually begins foaming and activating within 1/2 hour of being added to the water. The only time I noticed it taking longer to foam was when I tried distilled water. When added to the bottle with additional water, I notice that I get almost immediate bubbling, but I let it sit 24 hours to get full fermentation before switching the bottles.


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## Lemmie (Sep 24, 2007)

Left C said:


> Sometimes the Hagen ladder isn't efficient, but when it is "broken in" where the large bubbles end up very tiny like John N. mentioned; it is one of the best CO2 dissolving tools out there. This means that even though you are seeing small bubbles collect at the top and escape to the surface; it is really working quite well. Most of the CO2 is already dissolved into the aquarium water by then.





Left C said:


> If your Hagen ladder isn't working right, fix it and you'll be rewarded with much better efficiency.
> Left C


Hi all,
I'm so glad to have found this thread.
I'm pretty new at all this and just bought the Hagen system for my little tank, but my ladder is quite obviously not "broken in". My bubbles are gigantic and stall at every step of the ladder, growing larger until they pop at the surface of the water. How long does the breaking in period take and what's going on in the meantime? What do I have to do to "fix it"?  
TIA!


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## howie (Jan 5, 2007)

I've used the Hagan Ladder on a 10 and 29 Gallon tanks. Initially, using it with the fermentation process from Hagan. It is great for a 10-20 gallon tanks. I didn't like the uneven fermentation process though. What I did was eventually hooked it up to a pressurized C02. It worked even better. I've never had to clean it out. It is so efficient that I once almost suffocated my fish in two hours after messing with the bubble rate. The only thing about it is looks. It is going to be in your tank.
I've also used ADA ceramic diffuser, AM Reactor 1000 inline, and Vortex in tank reactors. I hate the maintenance required for the ADA ceramic diffuser (every month) and the Vortex (every week) and getting it to startup after a water change.
I am about to setup a 10 gallon grow out tank and I going to use the Hagan Ladder on it.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Thanks Howie!

I've used it with pressurized CO2 too.

Hi Lemmie.

Sometimes it takes a few days for the ladder to get broken it. It develops a film on the ramps that slows the bubbles down somewhat so that they can dissolve more completely. Every time that you clean it well; it'll have to get broken in again. Also, when you sometimes start up a new batch, the bubbles are sometimes bigger, travel faster and escape from the ladder at a rather large size. By the next day, it should be working fine.

Here's another link that ties in with this: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...ns/44225-adding-baking-soda-diy-c02-brew.html

Left C


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## Lemmie (Sep 24, 2007)

Thanks so much for the info, Left C! I think I'm using a bad batch of yeast (the Hagen packet that came with the system), because it's been 3 days and the bubbles are still slow and huge in size... but I _am _starting to see the bubbles getting smaller at the top, just like you mentioned.

Also, I have another newbie question (sorry!). The directions for the ladder say that there are three different positions on the ladder for the nozzle, the lowest for 70L tanks, the highest for 20/30L. Wouldn't it be most efficient for any size tank to have the nozzle set at the lowest position to maximize the amount of time the CO2 bubble has to dissolve? Is there any reason I wouldn't want it set at the lowest position for my 10 gal tank?


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

The yeast that comes with the Hagen kit is usually out of date and doesn't work well at all. The stabilizer is baking soda, I believe. 

You should try to make your own mixes and not buy any of the expensive Hagen refills. The other link has a sticky link about different recipes for the Hagen unit.

I have my CO2 tubing in the lowest slot on the ladder.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

I found that not only was mixing my own brew for the Hagen DIY canister cheaper, but I ended up with more sustained and consistent c02 production than when I used the Hagen refills. For me, that is reason enough to keep mixing my own brew. Also, it is still cheaper to make your own mix even when you use more expensive champagne yeasts.

Also, although not really necessary, I would change the brew every week to maintain the most consistent c02 levels whether you use the Hagen canister or your own DIY bottle. CO2 inconsistency can wreak havoc with your plants and could lead to algae issues. If you are trying to save money, you would have little choice than to mix your own ingredients if you are going to change your brew every week because using a new Hagen refill pack every week can get expensive.


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## Lemmie (Sep 24, 2007)

Thanks for all the input! I was actually planning on using my own mix, just wanted to use up the packets that came with the system, but they're so inefficient, it seems like a waste of time to try and get anything out of them. I'll put in my own mix today and lower the output nozzle.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Left C said:


> Hi lowfi
> 
> I was curious about the efficiency of a Hagen ladder a few years ago. I was a little hard to measure the diameter of the bubbles at the beginning and at the end, but it worked out that it was ± 95% efficient most of the time, but there were variables that sometimes interfered with that %age.
> 
> ...


I was remeasuring the bubble size and I just caught my math error.:doh:

I didn't use the radius in the formula. I used the diameter instead.

It should read like this: 
Measure the bubbles diameter. Then divide the diameter by 2 to get the radius.

Then use this calculator: http://grapevine.abe.msstate.edu/~fto/tools/vol/sphere.html

You can use this formula to find the efficiency:
[(Beginning Bubble Radius - Ending Bubble Radius) ÷ Beginning Bubble Radius] x 100 = % Efficiency.

Let's say that the beginning bubble diameter is 5 mm. It has a 2.5 mm radius with a volume of 65.45 mm^3.

The ending bubble diameter is 1 mm in diameter or with a 0.5 mm radius and it has a volume of 0.52 mm^3.

So: [(65.45 - 0.52) ÷ 65.45] x 100 = 98.2%

That's pretty efficient, isn't it? The escaping bubbles are only a slight loss.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Left C said:


> So: [(65.45 - 0.52) ÷ 65.45] x 100 = 98.2%
> 
> That's pretty efficient, isn't it? The escaping bubbles are only a slight loss.


And that's assuming that none of the bubble at the end is other gases that have come out of solution into the bubble...


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Hi Ed

That's a good point. I hadn't thought about that.

That explains one of the reasons why the ladder takes a little while to get going or "broken in." The bubbles are at a higher air to CO2 ratio in the beginning and then you have a much lower air to CO2 ratio when it's running right.

Thanks!

Left C


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

It should say: [(Beginning Bubble Volume - Ending Bubble Volume) ÷ Beginning Bubble Volume] x 100 = % Efficiency

I can use the edit feature and I have Volume typed in, but Radis is what shows after I save it. That's a little odd isn't it?


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