# What else should I be dosing?



## sonaps (Nov 15, 2005)

Although I have been a longtime reader of this forum this is my first post, of course with a question.

I have had a new 75-gallon tank setup for about two and a half months now. For the first month or so growth was great and everything was coming along nicely, except for an outbreak of BBA algae because of moving some plants from a low-tech tank that had the algae on them. I was able to overcome that by cranking up the CO2. However, after the high growth period I now believe there is a deficiency. The tank as a whole looks pretty good but all the plants have really slowed down and certain ones are showing real deficiencies.

My nymphaea lotus looks the worst. It has holes all over it and it has stopped producing new growth. The other plant that I am very worried about is my vallisneria americana. It was growing and sending off new runners like crazy, but now there isn't much left of it. It has stopped growing and most of the leaves have broken off at the base of the plant and floated to the top. I have included pictures so you can see what kind of damage it is showing. The cabomba carolina all but stopped growing and breaks off also at the base. I just keep replanting it. One of the only plants that is still growing, although much slower, is hygrophila polysperma. I have included a picture of one of the leaves that is showing major deficiencies. The new growth is also showing curling in this plant. But most of the leaves look pretty good. A couple of leaves on the echinodorus amazonicus are becoming transparent at spots and are looking rather pale.





































At first I thought it was a calcium deficiency, but now I am not so sure. I don't know what my Ca level is although I've been told we have high Gh. Do I need to worry about my Ca:Mg ratio? Could it be giving me these symptoms? I use the EI method for dosing. Right now I dose 0.5 tsp KNO3 and add drops of KH2PO4 that total 1.25 ppm PO4 3 times a week. On the off days I dose 15 ml CSM+B+extra Iron 3 times a week.

Any help you can offer on what I can be doing differently to save my plants would be very appreciated.

pH: 6.8 (was 6.9 I just bumped up CO2 a bit more and am watching my shrimp)
kH: 9
Lights: 4 x 40W florescent full spectrum bulbs (just over 2 watts per gallon). 
co2: Pressurized tank with valve/ph controller. Always on during light period, the controller turns it off when pH reaches 6.7 at night.
Substrate: 100% Flourite
Plants: Nymphaea Lotus, Anubias Nana, Cabomba Carolina, Glossostigma Elatinoides, Hygrophila Polysperma, Vallisneria Americana, Hygrophila Difformis, and Hemianthus Micranthemoides, Echinodorus Amazonicus


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## PK1 (Oct 4, 2005)

Sonaps,

I would suggest you measure your GH, but if I were to guess I would say you have a K defficiency. 

Try adding K2SO4 to your tank.


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## JerseyScape (Nov 18, 2005)

I would also be interested in knowing what turns leaves transparent...


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## sonaps (Nov 15, 2005)

PK1 said:


> Sonaps,
> 
> I would suggest you measure your GH, but if I were to guess I would say you have a K defficiency.
> 
> Try adding K2SO4 to your tank.


Thanks PK1. I will buy a GH test kit and measure it this weekend. As for adding K2SO4 I failed to mention that I have been dosing 1.5 tsp after my weekly water change since I noticed the nemphaea lotus develop holes (about 3 or 4 weeks). There has been no change in any of the plants. If anything it has gotten worse. I was going to stop dosing the K2SO4 this week, I am worried I may have too much K now.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!


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## sonaps (Nov 15, 2005)

I wasn't able to locate a decent GH tests kit; my LFS was closed over the weekend. I did, however, have PetSmart use their free "dip" test kit. I know it is not that accurate, but I figured it would give me a rough idea. The reading said my GH was 300ppm. It would seem that I have plenty of Ca. Is the water too hard? I really don’t want to have to mix RO water.


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

I'm wondering if your NO3 levels are low. You're dosing about 6mg/l of NO3 three times a week?

Maybe try increasing that a bit and see what happens...


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

Another thing you could try is to use Flourish or TMG instead of CSM+B. In my tanks, with my parameters, I definately noticed an improvement when I switched.


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## jppurchase (Dec 15, 2004)

sonaps said:


> I wasn't able to locate a decent GH tests kit; my LFS was closed over the weekend. I did, however, have PetSmart use their free "dip" test kit. I know it is not that accurate, but I figured it would give me a rough idea. The reading said my GH was 300ppm. It would seem that I have plenty of Ca. Is the water too hard? I really don't want to have to mix RO water.


First question you ought to ask yourself is what is in your tapwater. Most municipalities in North America are required by law to test the water supply on a regular basis and most make those water reports available to the public for free. Many water utilities make this infromation available online these days.

Once you know what is actually in your water, you have to know what plants need for growth and reproduction. By far the most comprehensive online resource for this information is http://www.soils.wisc.edu/~barak/soilscience326/essentl.htm

This site gives details of what the various essential elements actually do in plants and can offer some guidance to determine deficiencies. Be aware however that it mainly deals with agricultural plants, not aquatic plants. The needed nutrients are the same in both cases, but deficiencies may exhibit different symptoms in aquatic plants.

What you actually do with the information you obtain from these 2 sources depends on your level of experience and willingness to experiment. If chemistry freaks you out, it might be best to use a balanced commercial system, such as the Flourish line from Seachem. Doing the "teaspoon of this and a tablespoon of that" seems just a tad risky to me. But it IS your tank, and you are free to do as you wish.

I always shiver when I read about people dosing straight chemicals to their aquariums in the mistaken belief that "oh well, so and so is an expert, and he does it, so it can't be a bad thing". It might be ok, but it can just as easily be the wrong thing to do. Unless (or until) you know what you are doing, its much easier to rely on premixed preparations.

Pardon me for saying so, but if you don't even know the hardness of your water, I doubt that you are a canditate for "self-dosing" yet. It isn't rocket science, but it IS science. Plants require all of the essential elements in order to grow and reproduce, some in greater quantities than others. These various elements must be available in the proper ionic forms and quantities - too much of one can inhibit the uptake of another.

A little bit of reasearch can go a long way here, like I say, it isn't rocket science, and anyone with a genuine interest can learn.

James Purchase
Toronto


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