# Fish shipping - Kordon's breather bags and heat packs



## maestrale (Dec 17, 2009)

I will need to ship some Kribensis and I'm doing some research because I never shipped fish.

I read that Kordon's breather bags cannot be used in conjunction with heat packs. So I'm wondering if people ship fish during this season in regular plastic fish shipping bags and heat packs and only use the breather bags during the summer?


----------



## Six (May 29, 2006)

You cant use breather bags with heat packs? Huh, where did you read that? I've never heard of that being an issue. I used to do it and never had a problem.

I personally dont ship in Winter since it can be very hard on the fish. If I had to, I'd probably use 3mil bags, double bagged with a "bag buddy" (Jungle brand- the only Jungle brand item ?I would ever use, LOL) and a heat pack inside a styro.

HTHs


----------



## griffin7882 (Apr 26, 2006)

i think it's an issue because the heat packs will take up oxygen to make the heat, which is also what the fish need. i dunno if it would end up pulling oxygen out of the water through the bag tho. i don't ship in winter either, but i guess you could use the regular bags, and double bag?


----------



## maestrale (Dec 17, 2009)

One more question...do I need to put oxygen in the bag?


----------



## griffin7882 (Apr 26, 2006)

i don't put pure oxygen in the bag, but i will fill the top half with air if i'm not using a kordon bag. if i'm using a kordon bag, i'll try to get as much air out as possible. hope that helps


----------



## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

With regular plastic bags:

As much air in the bag as you can and still fit the bags in the box.

1 pint of water.

One fish per bag (1+ inch fish).

Triple rubber bands.

Double or Triple bag using 3 mil. bags.

Do not feed the fish 2 or days before shipment.

Insulate the box using styrofoam.

Put as much newspaper as you can between the bags and the styrofoam. Completely cover the bags with newspaper.

Check the temperature on weather.com few hours before the actual shipment (not the night before).

Destination temps:
60-65 = 1 heat pack
50-60 = 2 heat packs
40-50 = 3 heat packs
below 40 = 4 heat packs

72 hour heat packs. Red line should point out (down, toward the bags) when the pack is scotch taped to the styrofoam lid.

Best way to ship - Overnight. USPS does not guarantee that their Express Mail service will in fact deliver Overnight. Usualy it does. For some destinations maybe 2 days. Ask about that when shipping the box. Express Mail (Overnight) could be up to 5 days and you can't claim a thing. If you tell USPS you are shipping live fish they will treat the box in a very special way (=delay for sure).

Writing "Fragile" is pointless, the box will be thrown like a basketball anyway. Doesn't hurt to write it though.

FedEx - guaranteed overnight + more expenisive. FedEx clerks are more sensitive to what's in the box. You say "Books" the guy shakes the box and looks at you funny. If you tell him you are shipping live fish he may send you to another location equipped to ship fish (means nothing, no special facilities, just avoiding liability).

Don't know about UPS.

Have fun.

--Nikolay


----------



## Rtifs (Nov 6, 2009)

I’ve never shipped through the mail, but did use Kordon breathing bags to assist in transporting fish in my car last Nov. It was a 10 hour drive. They all arrived in great shape. In fact my corys spawned within 7 hours of being added to their new tank. There was also no outbreak of disease with any of my fish after transport, so their stress levels must have been within reason. 

The counterintuitive thing to remember about the breathing bags is that you don’t want any air trapped in them (reduces sloshing of the water which probably reduces stress). I left a bit in with my corys so they could go through the motions of gulping air, but all my other fish had just water. 

To ensure that you get good O2 and CO2 exchange, you must ensure that the bags are not touching each other if you’re shipping multiple bags. Also make sure they are completely dry because they can’t pull in O2 or expel CO2 through water on their outside surface (actually they can, but it’s greatly restricted since it must go through the process of dissolving into that water first).

I don’t know anything about using heat or cold packs with them, but can't think of a reason why you couldn't. I suppose the concern is that the heat pack would be hot enough to melt the plastic or overheat the water, but you should be able to address that concern.


----------



## maestrale (Dec 17, 2009)

I like the part of the story where the corys spawned after few hours. It's interesting to see how change of conditions trigger spawning behavior in corys.

Going back to Kordon's bags, I think the reason why it is not recommended to use them with heat packs is that the heat packs absorb the same oxygen that should be absorbed by the K-bags and probably release CO2

I'm also wondering how big should the bags be for fish around 2" and how big the box should be. Also, where do you folks recommend to buy shipping boxes and styrofoam containers?


----------



## griffin7882 (Apr 26, 2006)

i usually get my boxes from usps.com - free if you ship priority or better and a variety of sizes. styrofoam, i get from lowe's or home depot, although i'm sure there are other places you could get it (ac moore, walmart, etc)


----------



## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

I'm not a fan of the breather bags at all, but it is correct that they shouldn't be used with heat packs for the reasons listed above. 

When you use the regular bags, the ratio is 1/3 water to 2/3 air so they have plenty of surface area, and I always like to add a Bag Buddy to the bag as well. And double bagging is a must in case of a leak.

As for bags, I like the taller ones and go according to the size of the fish. For 2" fish a good size would be 7 or 8" X 20". I keep lots of the heavy duty 8 X 20 bags on hand since they're a great size. 

Good luck!


----------



## maestrale (Dec 17, 2009)

JanS said:


> I'm not a fan of the breather bags at all, but it is correct that they shouldn't be used with heat packs for the reasons listed above.
> 
> When you use the regular bags, the ratio is 1/3 water to 2/3 air so they have plenty of surface area, and I always like to add a Bag Buddy to the bag as well. And double bagging is a must in case of a leak.
> 
> ...


I can only put 1 fish for each bag correct?


----------



## OrangeCones (Aug 15, 2009)

According to Kordon, the manufacturer of the breather bags, there is no danger of using heat packs with their bags, unless the bags come in direct contact with the heat pack (due to possible melting of the plastic which would let water leak). They even said it would increase the O2 in the bag, as higher temperatures cause more CO2 to be forced out and O2 in than cooler water. 

When I saw this thread, I called to ask as I have always shipped fish with Kordon's breather bags and heat packs with no problems, and have had fish delivered also with no problems. 

1-800-877-7387, ask yourselves!


----------



## maestrale (Dec 17, 2009)

OK this is good news. Now, if I use Kordon's bags for 2" fish:
1 - What is the most appropriate bag size?
2 - How many fish can I put in 1 bag?
3 - In case of multiple bags in 1 box, can I stack bags on top of each other?
4 - Assuming I'm using styrofoam, are the follwoing guidelines for heat packs what everybody recommends?
Destination temps:
60-65 = 1 heat pack
50-60 = 2 heat packs
40-50 = 3 heat packs
below 40 = 4 heat packs
5 - How big should the box be? Just enough to fit all the bags or bigger?

Sorry for the many questions but I'm trying to figure out how to safely deliver my first shipment.

Thanks all for your great advices!


----------



## OrangeCones (Aug 15, 2009)

http://www.novalek.com/kordon/breathing_bags/index.htm


----------



## barclaya (Apr 14, 2011)

where to buy heat pack and styrofoam sheet?


----------



## ddavila06 (Jan 31, 2009)

barclaya said:


> where to buy heat pack and styrofoam sheet?


for heat packs check aquabid.com 
dont know about styrofoam though..


----------



## toddnbecka (Sep 20, 2006)

Kensfish.com has better prices on heatpacks than aquabid, also sells breather bags.
I buy stryo at Lowe's, Hope Depot would also carry the same thing. It's large sheets for insulating, makes quite a mess when you cut it to fit into boxes. They also sell the pink or blue stuff, less messy but much more expensive. Alternatively, you can also use fiberglass insulation, I've received several packages that were packed with that.


----------

