# Eco Complete as gravel top layer



## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Hello!

I will be setting up a new tank soon and I have considered using Eco Complete as my gravel top layer. This is the gravel that is in my betta's tank. It's nice looking and it's a good size but it can be a PITA to find and it's so dusty! Even after several washings(with just water), once it's in the tank, the glass, water and plants are covered in dust. As for my soil, as far as I know, it's just plain dirt so I don't think there is a lot of nutrients in it but I could be wrong.

Would EC be okay to use as a gravel substitute? For those of you who have used EC as gravel in NPT's, feel free to share your experiences on it. 

Thanks!


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## ILuvMyGoldBarb (Apr 7, 2007)

I used it in a 10gal NPT and the tank was overgrown in no time at all. It was unreal the kind of growth I got in that tank. I had no problems at all with algae either. I loved it.


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## ddavila06 (Jan 31, 2009)

i have eco as the top layer in my tank, not that natural but really like it. i regret mixing it, if i ever have a chance to re-do i would use only eco!


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## killacross (Apr 29, 2010)

i agree...choose one quality substrate and stick with it...I love eco-complete..but eventually I moved to ActivFlora (black) cuz it was slightly cheaper

both were great!


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

I see people have had good results with it. I am tempted to try it but I just may also use the other gravel I have in my betta's tank. PetsMart sells it. They only sell the larger bags but that's what I would need for my tank.

Thanks everyone!


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

If there are any stores that sell rocks for landscape use these might be a lot cheaper than buying little bags of rock in pet stores. 
Look under Masonry, Soils, Rock, Landscape and similar headings in the local phone book.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Diana K said:


> If there are any stores that sell rocks for landscape use these might be a lot cheaper than buying little bags of rock in pet stores.
> Look under Masonry, Soils, Rock, Landscape and similar headings in the local phone book.


Thank you for this suggestion. 

The bag I'm going to buy is a 22lb bag of small gravel. Aside from the color, what I really like about it is the size. It's between 2-3mm and it holds plants in place well.


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## Minsc (May 7, 2006)

Eco-complete can sometimes raise both GH and KH very quickly when first added. Other than that, it works very well as a cap.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Minsc said:


> Eco-complete can sometimes raise both GH and KH very quickly when first added. Other than that, it works very well as a cap.


Really? Thanks for letting me know about that. Our tap water is almost like liquid rock as it is so that's the last thing I would need!


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## JKUK (Feb 16, 2007)

Red_Rose said:


> The bag I'm going to buy is a 22lb bag of small gravel. Aside from the color, what I really like about it is the size. It's between 2-3mm and it holds plants in place well.


I've always found Eco Complete works OK for a year, but then results fall away.

If your after a long term cap, stick with your 2-3mm gravel it will last forever.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

JKUK said:


> I've always found Eco Complete works OK for a year, but then results fall away.
> 
> If your after a long term cap, stick with your 2-3mm gravel it will last forever.


I definitely plan on sticking with the gravel I previously had in my other tank. From the way you described EC, it sounds a lot like what the soil in my first NPT did.


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## JKUK (Feb 16, 2007)

I think once all the nutrients in the soil layer are exhausted, the fine texture of EC prevents fine mulm particles filtering down into the substrate. This therfore greatly reduces the fertility of the substrate resulting in poor growth. Not to mention that all that fine organic matter between the gravel partcles will be providing C02. I guess that if the substrate is too fine, this fine organic matter is more likely to end up in the filter instead. (I think shrimps and or snails are essential in the process of producing this fine organic matter, just think of all those bugs you find in the bottom of an established pond.)

I've seen much the same happen with sand caps, but never with the fine gravel Diana states in her book. Go by the book and it works every time 

Interestingly I have one very old tank which actually has quite coarse gravel in it, which is showing no signs of giving out after nearly 15 years.

Cheers
James


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

JKUK said:


> I think once all the nutrients in the soil layer are exhausted, the fine texture of EC prevents fine mulm particles filtering down into the substrate. This therfore greatly reduces the fertility of the substrate resulting in poor growth. Not to mention that all that fine organic matter between the gravel partcles will be providing C02. I guess that if the substrate is too fine, this fine organic matter is more likely to end up in the filter instead. (I think shrimps and or snails are essential in the process of producing this fine organic matter, just think of all those bugs you find in the bottom of an established pond.)
> 
> I've seen much the same happen with sand caps, but never with the fine gravel Diana states in her book. Go by the book and it works every time
> 
> ...


Wow! I've heard tanks making it to the 10 year mark but I've never heard of one that was over 10 years old! Do you have any pictures of that tank? I'd love to see them!

I did notice that EC was a lot finer then the gravel I use. The kind I use is the size that is recommended in Diana's book which is why I decided to just stick with it. That and I've never had any problems with it aside from it being a bit dusty. This is what it looks like.


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## kilfrg7864 (Sep 22, 2009)

blah, if only i read this a little sooner! i just finsihed planting my first NPT tank, and really first planted tank topped with EC :-/


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## JKUK (Feb 16, 2007)

Red_Rose said:


> Wow! I've heard tanks making it to the 10 year mark but I've never heard of one that was over 10 years old! Do you have any pictures of that tank? I'd love to see them!
> 
> I did notice that EC was a lot finer then the gravel I use. The kind I use is the size that is recommended in Diana's book which is why I decided to just stick with it. That and I've never had any problems with it aside from it being a bit dusty. This is what it looks like.


I should explain that the tank in question didn't start life as a NPT...........I don't think they existed back in 1995. It was originally set up using just a mix of 3mm and 5mm gravel with no soil layer. For the first couple of years nothing much grew......apart from algae that is. Then slowly as the gravel began to silt up ( I've never been keen on cleaning gravel ) things started to change. First the Crypts took off, followed by the Java moss. In those days I was doing a 25% water change once a week. Then slowly I began to notice that the less water I changed the better it checked out. So I started to experiment, firstly with a monthly change then two monthly, then six monthly. I reckon it took five years, but although I didn't know it at the time my tank had become a NPT. It wasn't until 1997 that I stumbled on this site and realised what I had. At this time the only plant that hadn't done well was the Crinum. After reading Diana's book I decided to pour some fresh soil around the base of this plant and it too took off and has never looked back. None of the plants have ever been replaced in this tank, and with the exception of a Java fern which was added recently are now also 15 years old. The tank also contains a colony of Emperor tetras which have been self sustaining over this time.

I'll try and find some old pics of the tank, and one today for comparison.

Cheers
James


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## JKUK (Feb 16, 2007)

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquarium-pictures/showimage.php?i=6713&c=1

Sorry I don't seem to be able to put the pic directly into this thread.

This is my tank in 1995.

Cheers
James


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## JKUK (Feb 16, 2007)

A quick snap from today.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquarium-pictures/showimage.php?i=6714&c=1

Cheers
James


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

:shock:  Wow! It looked great back then and it still does now! In the picture taken in '95, what is the plant at the right in the back? It looks like some kind of moss to me. I hope I have that kind of luck with my tanks.


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## ddavila06 (Jan 31, 2009)

JKUK said:


> A quick snap from today.
> 
> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquarium-pictures/showimage.php?i=6714&c=1
> 
> ...


i second redrose, is really nice! what is the other plant thats a little larger slightly to the left and looks like some crypt or aponogeton or something (shows in both pics) Awesome tank!!


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## JKUK (Feb 16, 2007)

Red_Rose said:


> :shock:  Wow! It looked great back then and it still does now! In the picture taken in '95, what is the plant at the right in the back? It looks like some kind of moss to me. I hope I have that kind of luck with my tanks.


Thanks,

Yes the plant on the right is a large clump of Java moss growing on bogwood. Sadly this piece of wood has now rotted away after all these years, hence the layout has now changed.

Cheers
James


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## JKUK (Feb 16, 2007)

ddavila06 said:


> i second redrose, is really nice! what is the other plant thats a little larger slightly to the left and looks like some crypt or aponogeton or something (shows in both pics) Awesome tank!!


Thanks again,

The plant on the left is what I call a ruffled onion (Crinum natans) this is the plant I poured soil over.

Too my great surprise it recently decided to flower.
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquarium-pictures/showimage.php?i=6715&c=1

Cheers
James


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

I thought it looked like moss. I had some java moss before. It grows well but I found it to be a pain to trim up.


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## kilfrg7864 (Sep 22, 2009)

any of you know any "big name" stores that carry those sized substrate? Im looking for black. I am using eco complete as a top layer in my 6G tank but i soon plan to move my plants and fish to a 10g, but after reading this i am reconsidering using up the rest of the eco complete that i bought at petsmart.

The only thing i really want is the substrate to be black. and for it to be easy ish to plant in.

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3956161&ab=fish_fc3b

would this be considered 2-3mm gravel?


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

What country do you live in? If you live in Canada then places like PetsMart will carry the Hagen brand that I use which is a natural rock. Unfortunately, it's not available in the U.S.

Have you ever checked out some garden centers? Places that sell flowers and other garden supplies may have a small gravel that would be good to use. As for the gravel that is in the link you posted, I think that stuff is a lot larger then 2-3mm and I don't know what they use to dye the gravel. If you can, try to find a gravel that's natural with no coloring added to it.


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## kilfrg7864 (Sep 22, 2009)

i actually do live in the US, do you have any pictures of the hagen brand rocks your talking about? Maybe if i see it somewhere i'll grab some!

Also regarding this topic, if i remember correctly ms.walstad said in one of her posts a while back that eco complete was supposed to be a good topper, maybe im mistaken but i do recall reading that somewhere....


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

kilfrg7864 said:


> i actually do live in the US, do you have any pictures of the hagen brand rocks your talking about? Maybe if i see it somewhere i'll grab some!
> 
> Also regarding this topic, if i remember correctly ms.walstad said in one of her posts a while back that eco complete was supposed to be a good topper, maybe im mistaken but i do recall reading that somewhere....


Here's the link. It's from the Canadian site. I hope you find it because it's a good gravel.

You're right, she did say that it was a good topper. Others have said that they have no problems with using it as gravel but I'd rather not take that chance with my new tank or any other tank for that matter. My very first tank had to be torn down because the soil was just awful and the only reason I had to recently take down my guppy tank was because of a parasite that infested the tank. The last thing I want to do is to try EC in my new tank(when I get it!) only to have to tear down a year or so later and start all over again.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

You can buy bags of 2mm - 3mm gravel (called "builders sand" or "blasting sand") from companies that sell to builders and contractors. It is quite cheap.

Don't be put off if they ask you how many truck loads you want.  They'll have a hundred pound bag also, probably.

Bill


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