# In need of some help....



## holocron (May 29, 2005)

Hi,

I have been having a really odd problem with my 50g planted tank recently. I am seeing almost all types of aglae, hair, black, blue green, bush, beard, you name it it's probably in my tank someplace.

I have a DIY CO2 system going with 192 watts of PC lighting. I figured it might be low CO2 but in the morning I look at my fish and some are gasping for air. So now I run an airstone at night to keep the fishies happy. I had this setup running for over a year with amazing results, and just in the past 2-3 months its been a total nightmare. Most of my plants are growing exceptionally well, but as they get old they are covered in some form of algae and I have to trim them away.

I dose daily with trace and no3 (1ppm daily). I dont dose PO4 because according to my test i have 2ppm.

any advice would be very very helpful.

thanks.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

With the amount of lighting you have, I'd be willing to bet the barn your problem is indeed lack of CO2 :!: I find it hard to believe your diy will cause an od of CO2 in a 50. Other than the fish's behavior, do you have any readings to indicate a high CO2 content - kh/pH measurements? If you have livebearers, they will often hang around the top, which won't necessarily indicate a CO2 overdose.



> I dont dose PO4 because according to my test i have 2ppm.


Have you tested the accuracy of your test kit to verify this number?


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## holocron (May 29, 2005)

Yeah, all signs tell me to little CO2, but when I wake up my discus and ram are generally at the top of the water. I purchased some amano shrimp a while back and they all died... for a few days previous they were all huddled at the top of the water on the intake hose. I have snails as well and they are generally at the water line as well. running an airstone releived the issue.

Does low O2 mean there is high CO2? or could I for some reason just have a low O2 level? I dont ever see my plants pearling like I used too.

Not sure how to test my PO4 test kit, any recommendations?

thanks for the response.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

What recently changed in your tank? Something did, or you wouldn't have seen a change in the algae. It could be that you added more fish or removed a lot of the plant load. Your water could have changed or maybe your fert regime is different.

I agree with Bert about the test kits. They're generally not worth much except for the very high-end models (and even then it's sketchy sometimes). I would absolutely recommend working on making a 'known' solution to compare with.

DIY CO2 for a 50g can be done, but you'll probably need a lot more than a single 2 liter bottle with the amount of light you're running. If you're serious about plants then just save up your pennies for a CO2 system. You'll be glad you did and you'll save $$ in the long run.

BTW, if your oxygen levels are low in the morning it probably has nothing to do with your CO2. The 2 gasses dissolve quite independenly. Plants and fish (and especially decomposing plant matter) consume O2 at night. Raising your CO2 will not cause O2 to leave the water. Fish don't tollerate low O2 levels quite as well if there is a TON of CO2 around for physiological reasons, but it's very, very unlikely that you have that much CO2 if you're doing DIY.

More CO2, more CO2, more CO2 - if the plants are happier they'll make more O2 on their own.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Plants use up the nutrients in the water, so even if your tap water contains 2 ppm of PO4, that won't last all week with that much light. And, adding 1 ppm per day of NO3 isn't enough either, for the same reason. I suggest you add about 5 - 10ppm NO3 every other day, and 1 ppm or so PO4 every other day. And, don't forget the micro fertilizers. Also, I agree with the others that DIY CO2 isn't likely to be a problem for overdosing a 50 gallon tank. Much more likely is the absence of good water movement, to keep the water the same all over the tank and encourage O2 absorption at the surface. Good surface movement is not turbulence, but small currents so your duckweed, if you have any keeps in motion.


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## holocron (May 29, 2005)

It could most definitely be a current thing. A few weeks ago I noticed that I was getting really poor output from my eheim, so I then cleaned the tubes and it increased my flow by at least 3 times. Unfortuntely that didn't stop the problem, the algae still came on strong and the fish still gasped in the morning.

I currently have my spray bar on the back wall about 2" below the surface pointing on an angled forwards with a slightly downward turn. I do see the water swirling at the top, but not quickly.

So I take the O2 issue could be one or many of the following, incomplete photosynthesis.. plants aren't getting enough Co2 to complete the process and dump out a lot of O2, and perhaps to many fish in tank?

I have a lot of plants, and they seem to be growing at a very fast pase, but I rarely see them pearl. I also have a lot of fish, so even last night after I did a water change, this morning the fish were gasping.. could the plants and fish be using all the o2 up?

thanks!

ps - is there a way I can introduce O2 without losing all my CO2?


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Increase your surface movement. I reciently had the same issues as you, after many dead ends I finally concluded I need more CO2 and more O2. I slowly raised my spraybar until I found a level where teh fosh no longer gasped, regardless of CO2 levels. I find I need ripples on the surface of the water but no white caps. The surface of the water should not be broken but the turbulance should be at a level just short of that.


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## holocron (May 29, 2005)

Thanks Dennis, I will try that!


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## MoonFish (Feb 12, 2006)

I'm with hoppy. I also dump in the H2O2 for a quicker turnouround when I get desparate.


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## holocron (May 29, 2005)

H202 eh? What are the percautions with this? do I take the fish out?

I am wondering if I am prehaps over dosing some ferts. I took my CO2 reading using two methods, the classic kh/ph and the new (to me) let your ph test sit for 24 hours style that is currently being discussed on this forum.

The results are:
Kh=3 ph = 6.6 CO2 = 22.607 ppm (chuck)
Start Ph 6.7 End ph 7.6 Delta = 0.9 CO2 = 24 ppm

so it looks pretty consistent right now. My test kits said I had over 20ppm NO3, and about 1.5 ppm PO4. I dose daily 1 ML of trace that had 2 TBSP of dry mix with 250ml of water.

Am I possibly out doing what the plants can use? or is it more likely I am not dosing enough trace?

I have 192 watts of light on a 50g ( 36x18x18 )

thanks for all the help thus far.


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## holocron (May 29, 2005)

dennis said:


> Increase your surface movement. I reciently had the same issues as you, after many dead ends I finally concluded I need more CO2 and more O2. I slowly raised my spraybar until I found a level where teh fosh no longer gasped, regardless of CO2 levels. I find I need ripples on the surface of the water but no white caps. The surface of the water should not be broken but the turbulance should be at a level just short of that.


thanks a lot dennis, the absolutely helped with flow and gasping! One problem solved!


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