# [Wet Thumb Forum]-nutrient deficiecy



## Lois (Jul 28, 2003)

For some time now I've been dealing with nutrient defincencies in my tank. My red plants (Rotala Macandra, Alternanthera Roseafola & Red Tiger Lotus) are pale greenish pink. Also my Heatheranthera Zosterfolia has been showing scorched whitish patches in a striped pattern with crinkled leaves. Root development was poor on most plants and Heatheranthera kept dying from the base.

I was using PMDD w/K2so4 and along with plant deficiencies battled with Black Brush, staghorn, thread and some type of redish colored fuzz algae. I also had problems with Cyano Bacteria. 

I figured the scorched Heatheranthera was from Potassium O.D. & Cyano was a result of low No3. I changed from using the large doses of K2so4 to smaller doses of KNo3 (keeping No3 @ 10 ppm). Fuzz & thread algae died but Cyano was still a problem. Heatheranthera remained scorched. 

Assuming there was a problem with my PMDD trace elements, I changed from using PMDD to Flourish trace elements along with KNo3. I then added Maracyn (Eurithromycin) to clear the cyano B. Heatheranthera seemed less scorched, Cyano B. died as well as other types of algae and surprizingly, red plants began brightening up. New growth grew in red and new white roots also developed.

Hoping my problem was resolved since changing to Flourish, I resumed my bi-weekly water changes & watched as the bright red in my Macandra & Roseafola turned back to pale green. Heatheranthera continues to die at the base but still isn't as scorched as before.

I was hoping someone could help me find what nutrient is deficiencint. I have also wondered if something in the Maracyn helped to redden up my plants but can't see any reason why. I thought there might be some type of phosphate as an ingredient but saw none. I do feel Maracyn had some effect on the reddening of plants since I experienced this once before when treating for cyano. (Maybe it blocked something that is in excess instead of adding something deficient?)


Fe= 1ppm
No3= 10
P= 1
GH= 3
KH= 7
C02 is added with a yeast injector.

Hoping for answers,
Lois


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## Lois (Jul 28, 2003)

For some time now I've been dealing with nutrient defincencies in my tank. My red plants (Rotala Macandra, Alternanthera Roseafola & Red Tiger Lotus) are pale greenish pink. Also my Heatheranthera Zosterfolia has been showing scorched whitish patches in a striped pattern with crinkled leaves. Root development was poor on most plants and Heatheranthera kept dying from the base.

I was using PMDD w/K2so4 and along with plant deficiencies battled with Black Brush, staghorn, thread and some type of redish colored fuzz algae. I also had problems with Cyano Bacteria. 

I figured the scorched Heatheranthera was from Potassium O.D. & Cyano was a result of low No3. I changed from using the large doses of K2so4 to smaller doses of KNo3 (keeping No3 @ 10 ppm). Fuzz & thread algae died but Cyano was still a problem. Heatheranthera remained scorched. 

Assuming there was a problem with my PMDD trace elements, I changed from using PMDD to Flourish trace elements along with KNo3. I then added Maracyn (Eurithromycin) to clear the cyano B. Heatheranthera seemed less scorched, Cyano B. died as well as other types of algae and surprizingly, red plants began brightening up. New growth grew in red and new white roots also developed.

Hoping my problem was resolved since changing to Flourish, I resumed my bi-weekly water changes & watched as the bright red in my Macandra & Roseafola turned back to pale green. Heatheranthera continues to die at the base but still isn't as scorched as before.

I was hoping someone could help me find what nutrient is deficiencint. I have also wondered if something in the Maracyn helped to redden up my plants but can't see any reason why. I thought there might be some type of phosphate as an ingredient but saw none. I do feel Maracyn had some effect on the reddening of plants since I experienced this once before when treating for cyano. (Maybe it blocked something that is in excess instead of adding something deficient?)


Fe= 1ppm
No3= 10
P= 1
GH= 3
KH= 7
C02 is added with a yeast injector.

Hoping for answers,
Lois


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

I'm not sure I can help with the Heteranthera zosterifolia. For me it grows fine for a while then falls into a deep funk for a while, then grows fine again. Over and over...

As for the other plants, light colors -- whether they are reds or greens -- I usually take as a non-specific trace element shortage.

A few more questions, partly to refresh my memory. How big is your tank? How much light? What is the pH? How big and how often are your fertilizer doses? Does bi-weekly mean twice a week or once every two weeks? How big are the changes?

Roger Miller

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_"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein_


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## Chousal (Feb 8, 2004)

Could the Gh be low??

it could be a Ca and Mg deficiency ???

have you tried to rise it to 7 ?

Saludos...

Acuariofilia most not be costly.


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## Lois (Jul 28, 2003)

Hi Roger,

I always appreciate your help.

I have a 55 gal. tank with 3 wpg of lighting. 

Ph= 7.6

Flourish is dosed @ 2ml. every day

Kno3 is dosed @ .5ml. every day to keep No3 at 10 ppm (I'm thinking of lowering this to 5 ppm)

I change 1/4 of tank water 2x a week to keep my Discus happy and add enough fertilizer to bring levels up to = whats in the tank.

Lois


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## Lois (Jul 28, 2003)

Chousal,

I don't think GH is too low. Currently I'm not adding any Mg or Ca because when I did so a while back it caused GW. My water supplier also said GH of tap water was 16ppm calcium and .01ppm Mg.

Lois


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## Chousal (Feb 8, 2004)

Lois, I didnt know you have discus, then don´t touch your Gh.

Saludos...

Acuariofilia most not be costly.


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Lois,

First, I'm not sure that the symptoms you describe are deficiency symptoms. Usually I associated any "pale" color with a trace nutrient deficiency, but that should not be the case here. Your Flourish dose is reasonable, your daily dosing scheme is good and the weekly total is more than twice what I add to my similarly-equipped 55.

There are a lot of things that will make red plants develop less red colors. The lack of red doesn't necessarily mean the plant isn't healthy. It just means it isn't red. Some things that might make your plants redder are; lower nitrate levels, brighter light, bluer light, less shading. Temperature might even factor in.

A couple more questions...

How do you know your iron is 1 ppm? That is about 10 times higher than people usually advise and it seems to be common experience that people can't usually maintain even 0.1 ppm iron using Flourish without going to very large doses.

Are you dosing anything to get P (phosphorus) of 1 ppm? How are you measuring that?

Your utility told you the magnesium concentration is 0.01 ppm? Can you double check that? That would be a very low concentration for magnesium, but pretty reasonable for manganese. If the magnesium is really that low then you have found a problem that needs to be fixed.

I find it odd that your plants colored up while you were treating the tank. I would tend to assign that cause to the lack of 2x weekly water changes, not to the antibiotic. From your description you are following a very complex procedure. The more complicated things get the greater is the likelihood that something unexpected is going wrong.

Roger Miller

------------
_"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein_


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## Lois (Jul 28, 2003)

Roger,

Sorry, your right. Iron is measuring .1 not 1. I was having a hard time seeing a color change in the test kit so I did add 1ml of Pmdd (trace only) along w/ the 2 1/2 ml of Flourish each day.

I am currently measuring phosphorus with a new kit I found called SeaTest. They're a product of Instant Ocean (Aquarium Systems Inc.) It's for reef aquariums but the lfs said it should work for fresh water also. I had used lots of other kits but they were very inaccurate. This seems the best so far. I'm not adding phosphorus to the water as of yet since it reads 1.0, but since there seems to be deficiencies that I can't figure out I recently added Flourish plant tabs along with some phosphorus containing pond tabs to the substrate to see if there was a change in conditions. So far theres none.

I'll definately call back my water co. to confirm their analasys. It may be I misheard what they said. I'll get back with you as soon as I do.

As far as plant health, the biggest thing I've noticed other then the pale coloration in red plants is the lack of root developement on all plants. They just don't seem to be as developed as they should. Although all plants have small root developement, Heatheranthera just shows the greatest problems. It seems to be similar to Hygrophilia in that it shows deficiencies faster than other plants. 

Lois


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## Lois (Jul 28, 2003)

Roger,

I contacted my water supplier and apparently recieved some misinformation before. The man I spoke to said he could give me the GH (75ppm) but since the state didn't require them to break down how much of that is calcium & magnesium he couldn't give me those levels. It seems your suspicions were right in that what I had been given before was probably manganse. As of today manganese tests @ .027. I don't know if that'll be of any help, but I'm not sure how else to get that info. since I can't find any kit to test for them.

One other thing I forgot to mention. It seems my Rotala Macandra & Alternanthera Roseafola's new leaves are smaller and sometimes distorted.

Still hoping,
Lois


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Lois,

I can't identify a nutrient deficiency from your descriptions. Sorry.

Your KH of 7 and pH of 7.6 give you a CO2 level of about 6 ppm -- not much more than I would expect from the fish alone. That level is a bit out of balance with your 3 wpg lighting and frequent fertilizing, but it isn't necessarily a problem.

Maybe someone else has a few ideas.

Roger Miller

------------
_"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein_


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## Southrock (Feb 3, 2003)

Hi, Lois. Altough I haven't had any experience with the root problem you seem to be having, you mentioned that your Rotale macrandra has leaves that are smaller and sometimes distorted, I recently had a problem like that, and I thought it might be a Calcium deficiency. Roger pinpointed the problem by pointing out that I was dosing far too much potassium, and since I drastically reduced the dosing, the leaves are growing out full-throttle.

I don't know how or if that could pertain to your situation, it seems the only K your dosing is from KNO3. Just thought I'd throw two cents in.

BTW - what kind of substrate are you using?

-SR


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## Lois (Jul 28, 2003)

Southrock

I'm using a combination of natural aquarium gravel with laterite mixed in the bottom 1/2. I thought Potassuim might've been a prob. so I cut out my K2so4. I saw some change in my Hetheranthera but not as much as I would've liked. I just wish I could figure out what's causing this. Too much or too little of something--but what?!

Lois


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