# low ph question



## harrychi (Jun 19, 2009)

Hello to all those who read this. I have a concern about my implementation of c02 into my tank.
I have recently begun and planted tank with about 30ish plants in it. I am dosing ferts as suggested by my lfs (A place for pets, Burian, WA). Its 55g and 2, 54w t5 lights.
Here is my preponderance. According to http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm my water is all messed up... I have a kh value of 2 and a ph 7.4 from my tap water giving me 2.4ppm of c02 from the tap. My tank waters kh value is 2 with a ph reading of, well must be less then 6.0, thats as low as my tester goes. Giving me a c02 level of about 60ppm or higher. Well, I have yet to turn on the c02 so how can this be?
Before I started live plants I checked the ph level and i saw that it was 7.4 in the tank and panicked ( I am a newb mind you). I ran right to petco and bought seachem neutral reg 7.0 and wham, a nice 7.0 reading. I had to save my fish you know lol.
So, why is my ph so low now ( or high. is 6.0 low or high?) with out even using c02 yet? My substrate is crushed quartz #16 and I have some drift wood in there but no way to tell what size really except to say about 15lbs worth, boiled 15 minutes as per instructions.
So, what can I do to get a supposed real Ph reading? Or how can I get my Ph up to about 6.9 ish with out phosphates? or raising my kh, (wont that just make the test results the same?).
AAAACK!!! please help...


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Sorry to tell you but those charts don't work. The idea behind the charts is that the only dissolved solids in your water is Ca and Mg. We know there are many more dissolved solids in tap water than those two. So when you measure kH it can be affected by these many dissolved solids. You can't know what the measurement would be if you only had Ca and Mg in your water. So... you can't know how much CO2 you have in your water. The only way to know approximately how much CO2 is in your water is to use a drop checker with 4dkh water in it. When it turns green you know you have reached around 25-30ppm.

Let your tap water sit a while and measure the pH. Sometimes things degas and that's why you get a different tank measurement. Quartz is inert and can't change pH. Did you add peat to the tank? Peat will lower pH.

The worse thing you can do for your fish is change your pH quickly. Use your tap water, acclimate your fish. When you do weekly w/c they will be used to the same water. It's not so much the pH# but the consistency of it that is more important to your fish. Just acclimate them slowly and you're fine.

Remember that pH change from CO2 don't really affect dissolved solids so even though the pH number changes the fish are still in the same amount of dissolved solids so they are fine. 

My tap pH is 7, my tank pH is 6 due to CO2. All my fish are great.


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## harrychi (Jun 19, 2009)

Thank you tex gal. No peat was added or anything like that. The tank mates seem to all be doing just fine. The blue rams get alot more flirty with a higher ph but i guess they will just have to get used to safe sex.
A drop cheacker you say... time to spend more money i guess.


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## imeridian (Jan 17, 2007)

Tex Gal said:


> The idea behind the charts is that the only dissolved solids in your water is Ca and Mg. We know there are many more dissolved solids in tap water than those two. So when you measure kH it can be affected by these many dissolved solids. You can't know what the measurement would be if you only had Ca and Mg in your water.


I need to clarify this, the general idea is correct, but the specifics are not.

The issue with the pH/KH test is that there may be acids other than CO2 and buffers other than carbonates. The general hardness (Ca & Mg) is not relevant, nor are other dissolved solids*1, and neither influence carbonate hardness (KH)*2. The CO2 level chart is invalidated because pH is too easily influenced by unrelated factors, such as tannins, phosphate buffers, etc.

*1 with notable exception of those that influence pH, of course, such as a carbonate.
*2 with obvious exception of carbonates as a dissolved solid.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi harrychi,

I have the same problem with soft water here in Renton. I picked up two drop checkers here (bought a spare...glad I did): http://cgi.ebay.com/Drop-Checker-CO2-Test-pH-Live-Aquarium-Plant-Diffuser_W0QQitemZ250325579485QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a489136dd&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1199|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50 (Do not order plants from overseas due to risk of prosecution from U.S. Customs) I mixed up my own 4.0 dKH solution of water to mix with the indicator solution so when the indicator is green my CO2 level is good.

I increased the carbonate (hardness) of my water by putting a piece of cuttlebone (available in bulk at APFP in Burien) in my filter so even with the addition of CO2 my PH is still around 7.0. BTW, APFP is the best plant store in the south end of Seattle, good for you for finding it! Karen, the plant lady at APFP, is an APC regular.


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## harrychi (Jun 19, 2009)

Ah yes, Karen was her name. She told me about this site. LOL, I think I should be mad at her really. I also like "the fish store" for plants. But as with both of those stores, the c02 or plant guru is off the day i decide to come in. What kind of person takes a day off? I mean come really... And what is cuttlebone? And would a few small seashells do the same thing?


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## imeridian (Jan 17, 2007)

Cuttlebone is literally the bone of the cuttlefish. It's primary used in bird cages to provide calcium and a way for the birds to manicure their beaks. The idea being, in a tank, that it'll slowly dissolve and provide minerals. Shells are not a very good substitute, they're considerably less prone to easily dissolve. Sometimes you'll see the suggestion to add a bag of crushed coral or aragonite sand to the filter, same basic idea. 

I'm not a fan of that sort of method, but instead prefer to boost GH by adding a GH booster powder containing sulfates of calcium, magnesium, and potassium. I prefer the precision and consistency that provides. I see no need to boost KH, but you can do that with ordinary baking soda. 

My pH is lower than 6, can't tell you what it is because it's lower than my liquid test reads. It's been that way for years, with CO2 injection, it's nothing to be concerned with.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

I would raise the KH just a bit. I use baking soda to prep water for a water change in those tanks where I want a higher KH. 
1 teaspoon of baking soda in 25 gallons (well, a 29 gallon tank) raises the KH by 2 degrees, and brought the pH up in that tank from 6.0 (bottom of the test) to 6.4.
Cuttlebone does not dissolve fast enough to be useful, for example when you want the water change water to match the tank. 

Carbonates are one of the buffers that will help stabilize the pH. When the carbonates are low the pH can vary quite wildly. When the carbonates are about 3 degrees or higher the pH is more stable.
You can add peat moss to the filter if you want the tannic acid; some fish really thrive in tanks like this. 

I use Barr's GH booster or Seachem Equilibrium for GH (either of these has more minerals, not just Ca and Mg). But these do not affect pH.


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