# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Deficiency shown by java fern?



## magicmagni (Aug 19, 2004)

Hello everyone!

I'm hoping I can get some expert advice and this is usually the place







so here it is. I have been seeing poor growth of the java fern in my tank. For months it grew with very wavy leaves and more yellow then green. It looked much like this:








They also tended to reproduce little plantlets like crazy, but a month ago I increased the iron from non detectable levels of iron to about 0.1-0.2 ppm of iron as tested from my sachem test kit. The growth is much less wavy now and greener and defiantly less plantlets, but still not all the way there. As you can see in the pics below the leaves are brittle and jagged on the ends and some are damaged. I don't know if you can see, but there are green "veins" visible on the new growth more so then the old growth. What do you all make of this?


















Here's my parameters:

Tank Volume: 55G
Lighting Intensity(No of Watts) : 4x65W
Type of Lighting: CF
No. of Hours your light is on : 13hrs
Type of CO2 (DIY/Liquid/Tank) : Tank
Method of Injection (e.g. Diffuser/Reactor): Aqua Botanic reactor 1000
Substrate Used : 50/50 mix Flourite and Eco complete
Frequency of fertilization : after every weekly 50% water change dry dose 1/2 teaspoon KNO3. 7.5 ml flourish iron and flourish. 2.25ml fleet (phosphate). 1ml Iodine (for inverts)
Daily dosing: 3ml Iron/ 2ml flourish
Tank Temperature : 77F
Type of Filter (canister) : Magnum 350
How long has your tank been set up : 1 year

Carbonate Hardness (KH): 4
Total Hardness (gH): 8 (built up with 1 tablespoon of Seachem Equilibrium at water change)
pH : 6.57 to 6.65 (maintained automatically)
NH4 (ppm): 0 
NO2 (ppm): 0
NO3 (ppm): 8-10ppm
PO4 (ppm): 1-1.4ppm

Hope I didn't miss anything. Please help!!

Thank you for your time,

Jeff


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## magicmagni (Aug 19, 2004)

Hello everyone!

I'm hoping I can get some expert advice and this is usually the place







so here it is. I have been seeing poor growth of the java fern in my tank. For months it grew with very wavy leaves and more yellow then green. It looked much like this:








They also tended to reproduce little plantlets like crazy, but a month ago I increased the iron from non detectable levels of iron to about 0.1-0.2 ppm of iron as tested from my sachem test kit. The growth is much less wavy now and greener and defiantly less plantlets, but still not all the way there. As you can see in the pics below the leaves are brittle and jagged on the ends and some are damaged. I don't know if you can see, but there are green "veins" visible on the new growth more so then the old growth. What do you all make of this?


















Here's my parameters:

Tank Volume: 55G
Lighting Intensity(No of Watts) : 4x65W
Type of Lighting: CF
No. of Hours your light is on : 13hrs
Type of CO2 (DIY/Liquid/Tank) : Tank
Method of Injection (e.g. Diffuser/Reactor): Aqua Botanic reactor 1000
Substrate Used : 50/50 mix Flourite and Eco complete
Frequency of fertilization : after every weekly 50% water change dry dose 1/2 teaspoon KNO3. 7.5 ml flourish iron and flourish. 2.25ml fleet (phosphate). 1ml Iodine (for inverts)
Daily dosing: 3ml Iron/ 2ml flourish
Tank Temperature : 77F
Type of Filter (canister) : Magnum 350
How long has your tank been set up : 1 year

Carbonate Hardness (KH): 4
Total Hardness (gH): 8 (built up with 1 tablespoon of Seachem Equilibrium at water change)
pH : 6.57 to 6.65 (maintained automatically)
NH4 (ppm): 0 
NO2 (ppm): 0
NO3 (ppm): 8-10ppm
PO4 (ppm): 1-1.4ppm

Hope I didn't miss anything. Please help!!

Thank you for your time,

Jeff


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## bobo31 (May 8, 2004)

From your tank specs the only thing that jumps out at me is your micro dosing. You dose about the same amount as I dose in my 30gal.

Dose your macros and micros on opposite days. After the water change dose your macros then the next day dose micros. Double you micro dosing and continue with the same dosage of iron.

If it were me I would be dosing 15ml of flourish and 8ml of iron evey other day.

larger less frequent doses are going to do more for the plants than small daily doses IMO.

Try it for about 3-4 weeks and see if you notice any differences in the new growth.

And don't bother testing for iron. Waste of time.

HTH,
Robert.


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## imported_pineapple (Apr 28, 2004)

Would you consider the light intensity and duration are high for this type of plant? I suppose it depends on what else you are growing in the 55g aquarium.

Andrew Cribb


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## bobo31 (May 8, 2004)

From my experiences Java Ferns grow the best in High light. However I wouldn't just grow java fern in this much light by itself. I would combined it with some stem plants.

Robert.


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## Rob G (Oct 19, 2004)

Robert, why are you suggesting dosing macros and micros on opposite days? What problems have you experienced with dosing them on the same day?


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## bobo31 (May 8, 2004)

There has been talk in the past that Phosphate binds with the iron rendering both unusable or maybe just one unusable, can't remember exactly. So I dose my traces when the phosphate is at its least in the aquarium. There has also been talk about oxygen and UV light messing with traces.

That is why I dose the traces in the morning a few hours before the lights come on, when O2 is at its lowest and there is no light.

It could all be myth I don't know but I figured it couldn't hurt. Better safe than sorry I guess.

Robert.


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## magicmagni (Aug 19, 2004)

Thanks for the replies. Ya know I was never really clear on how much trace to add for a high light tank. They say keep adding until you see no more improvement, but at so much more than the recommended dosage I thought I had plenty.... Will increase dosage and see. Anyone know were to get flourish in bulk? LOL. I admit the growth was much better when it was in my low light tank, but now it's in high gear with the lighting so here shows the deficiency. The odd thing is that everything else grows fine in the tank.. well the crypts and Anubia have somewhat curled leaves- almost like a calcium deficiency, but what can be blocking Ca. I know there if plenty of it. The crypts are coming around though with the addition of flourish root tabs. The main reason for the light is for the foreground plants- glosso and hairgrass- with a big of Hemianthus callitrichoides that I'm trying out. Also the Limnophila aromatica I have likes the high lighting and is doing excellent BTW.


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## magicmagni (Aug 19, 2004)

Update: 
Well I got discouraged and took most of the Java fern out of the tank and did a rescape. The little that is left though is doing better. The leaves are a much deeper green now, although the new growth leaf edges are still broken and jagged like before. I'm starting to suspect that one of the tank critters are damaging the leaves because the not all the leaves look bad, just the ones that are more accessible. I've increased the flourish dosing from 2ml a day to 5ml a day. I know it's not as much as is being recommended here, but I'm starting to get more spot algae, which I almost never had before so I think I've reached the max I want to dose. Iron dosing still the same- 3ml a day. I do these daily or else I forget to do it. After Saturday water change I do my macros like always and on Sunday I do my large trace dose at 12.5ml Flourish and 7.5ml Flourish Iron. All my plants are definitely liking the added traces.

I also have noticed much less curling of the leaves on my Anubia plants. I'm not sure if that is because of the added trace or because I have stopped using the Equilibrium to raise GH, but much less curling for sure. Actually potasium levels I dose for the week are about 12ppm. I didn't realize the Equalibrium had a lot of potasium. One dose raises potasium levels 65ppm according to the bottle!! I have a hunch that all of that potassium was causing problems.


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## magicmagni (Aug 19, 2004)

Update:

The Java Fern that is left in the tank is beginning to grow in much better. I have continued my dosing regimen as described in my last post. The only thing that has changed was that I removed the SAE's in my tank. I caught them ripping up the Myriophyllum mattogrossense. We'll they've been outta there for about 2 weeks now and I see the new growth is looking perfect! No jagged edges or anything. So I think it was a combination of not enough macros/ too much potassium and these critters chewing it up.


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