# Conquered algae?



## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

I need help!

For those of you who have successfully fought off an algae outbreak, especially the dark hairy kind, 
*What methods did you employ?* and *How long did it take?* Is it gone completely or just under control?

I managed to get rid of green tinted water, but am having hair algae. I've been trying lots of stuff...


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## isu712 (Feb 8, 2008)

To get rid of the stuff you have in there currently you can spot treat it with either flourish excel or H2O2. I used excel on some hair algae and it cleared it up real well. This will only take care of the stuff that is currently in your tank and won't do anything to keep it from coming back. In order to keep algae from coming back you're going to have to get your nutrient balance in check with some faster growing plants.


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## Revernance (Aug 20, 2007)

What does your hair algae look like when you pull a small chunk out of the water? Is it a bit slimy and has a weird smell?


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## Missy B (Jul 8, 2007)

what's your tank specs? co2? fertilizing??


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

I have an oto and shrimp and snails, so I haven't spot treated. I'm afraid it kill any of them that came in contact with it. I only did one dose of Excel last week, at the "water change" suggested dose. (No loading dose) I added 1 cc to the 10 gallon and 2 ccs for the 20 gallon. I lost a shrimp in one of the tanks even adding it slowly & diluted in water.

Have to get back to you on the smell test... It doesn't come off in my fingers when I try to rub it off, it's very well anchored, like it's grown into the plant leaf structure, not just on the surface. It's fuzzy- hair fuzzy, not just green slime algae or diatoms. And it's so dark it looks black. (BBA?)

I run both these tanks with soil underlayer, no CO2 or liquid ferts. I only add water conditioner, really. I did run a week of charcoal in a HOB, after I vac'd to remove Disolved Organic Compounds. Now I'm back to just my Submariner UV filter in the 20. Understocked, no heater, lots of fast growing Hygros, duckweed, Vals, lots of plants... a 15watt GE aquatic plant flourescent bulb 12 hrs a day with 6 afternoon hrs added 60 watt CFL spot, I am changing this to cool white as soon as I go to the store. (a DIY lighting sitch b/c I am waiting to get a nicer light for when I have a bigger tank) This one is about two months old.

The 10 still has a HOB (palm) wisper filter with charcoal only, but this has taken out (or blown up) my duckweed floaters. This one was replanted with dirt 5 mos ago. Lots of dwarf sag, some new Hygros, mosses, Marimo ball, anubias (look like heck now)- lots of plants. I fought off green water with a massive water change, charcoal, adding duckweed and three fast growers and as many Vals as I could squeeze in, but this one has never been vac'ed because of shrimp. Now I have the hairy algae. The light may be too high. I had 30 watts of CFLs, and am will change these to one 15 watt cool white plain bulbs also this week. (just reread the book) No heater.

Both tanks in a bright room, ambient sunlight only, though. The sunbeam can't reach them directly, but it's the only place I can put them. pics here

*Any help appreciated*. I see some improvement (maybe)  but am wondering if I'll always have to live with some algae???


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## DMHdispute (Oct 23, 2007)

For spot treating algae with excel i knonw your supposed to use a syrenge. But would it still work the same if i just filled a cap full of excel and pulled the plant up and dipped it in the cap. (assuming the plant is small enugh, mine are). Would dipping it in pure excel hurt the plant?


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

What the light Temp color.
I switched to 4100K from the original 8000k. Sunlight maybe causing a problem too.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Thanks for all the input! These don't get direct sunlight, just a bright room. Yeah, I do need to switch to "Cool White" bulbs, plant bulbs are usually 6500K or higher. The Book says aquatic plants don't need it, but when I started, I heard higher Kelvin was better (from tech planters). 
I don't know anyone with shrimp who uses Excel in their tanks. And I lost one dosing to the water. Won't it be toxic to them if they eat it concentrated in the algae on the plant? All my shrimp (and some snails) do eat algae, so I've been afraid to add the Excel to the problem plants. 
What else has worked for you guys?


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## yum (Feb 11, 2008)

bump. i'm curious as well as i've got some shrimp and hair algae.

my current strategy is to borrow one of my dad's mollies and let her (i always think mollies are girls :heh) go to town on the algae.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Maybe you could try the H2O2 method. They say that once it's has bubbled (giving off one of it's O molecules) it's just plain water. Can you take the worst stuff out of the tank and treat with peroxide? I know this will kill the BBA. I have killed it with spot treatments using syringe or eye dropper.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

I actually considered getting a molly- but figured I'd have end up with a hundred... and I've no one to give them to, I may do it anyway since that's worked for you. Thanks!

I will also try the Hydrog. Perox. on the Anubias, since I can't trim them. They are easy to take out, too. Thank you!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

mommyeireanne said:


> Thanks for all the input! These don't get direct sunlight, just a bright room. Yeah, I do need to switch to "Cool White" bulbs, plant bulbs are usually 6500K or higher. The Book says aquatic plants don't need it, but when I started, I heard higher Kelvin was better (from tech planters).
> I don't know anyone with shrimp who uses Excel in their tanks. And I lost one dosing to the water. Won't it be toxic to them if they eat it concentrated in the algae on the plant? All my shrimp (and some snails) do eat algae, so I've been afraid to add the Excel to the problem plants.
> What else has worked for you guys?


Your letters indicate that your plants are growing well and the shrimp are fine-- unless you add Excel. A little algae is natural. Sometimes the cure can be far worse than the disease.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Thank you for the answer Ms Walstad. I tend to throw the plants in and see what happens, with decent result until the algae outbreak. It's hard to be patient. 
Of course I wish that it would all disappear, but I guess the goal is to manage it. 
I have been rethinking the vacuuming issue for the 10 gal shrimp tank also. I think I'm going to do it this weekend, and try to chase them out of the area first and vac carefully. I'll check the bucket before I throw out the water. (The other tank only has 5 Amano's and they were easier to vacuum around than so many cherry red shrimp.) My new plan then is to vac monthly with a partial water change, keep trimming the worst algae, change all bulbs to cool white, reduced to 15 watts for the 10 gallon, run charcoal as needed. 
I keep thinking back to what precipitated this in the 10 gallon, after it ran well for months. I think it may have been because I haven't vacuumed up plant debris. I picked out what I could see when I trimmed, but there's so much dwarf sag. that you can't see the gravel in this tank. That's also why I didn't see baby shrimp, just a 'mysterious' increase in their number when I took the UV filter out. Well, that and old eyes. I generally don't wear my reading glasses to check the tank. :nerd:


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

I'm going through an algae outbreak right now in my 10G.. I have hair, string, fuzz, and clado... a little GSA too but not a big deal.
The whole outbreak started when I had to do several massive water changes after treating for parasites. I should have just left the lights off...


But I'm correcting the issue with 4 hours of light, CO2, and manually removing the algae every week. I tried overdosing excel. It sort of worked but also contributed to fish deaths. The algae came back after I stopped the excel treatment. Things are not as bad as before... 

The tank will take several months to balance itself back to normal.


ps. I don't think H2O2 work all that well. I did an experiment in another container.. I has no effect on hair algae.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

I spent the morning :boxing: vacuuming the gravel in both tanks, trimming the worst algae infested leaves, =changing the water and dipping my anubias. I have the dark furry stuff (not the bright green slimey sort) which won't rub off the leaves. It seems to be embedded. I may have to toss the anubias.  I also went to the store to sort through bulb options. I replaced the 60w spot with a 25w 'soft white' bulb for a total of 40 watts in the 20 gallon. Everything in the store said "Soft White" not "Cool White". I assume it's the same, no Kelvin ratings on any of them. 
I ended up buy two 7.5watt globe bulbs that won't fit in the hood for the 10 gallon. Right base, just too squatty and wide, so the 10 gallon still has two CFL's that use 7watts each, but say they replace 40w bulbs. _What does that mean?_ They have a white outer glass shaped like other T-10 bulbs. Are they ok, or *do I need to go with the two incandescent 15w T-10 bulbs*? If I take one out, half the tank is dark. 15w incandescent is the lowest watts I can find that fit.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

I looked back at my tank blog and this 20 gallon tank has only been up 6.5 weeks. I though I was over two months already. In my defense, my days are pretty busy- but I have a poor memory for that sort of thing anyway. So I guess we are still in the adjustment stage with this tank. 
And the 10 may be improving. At least the algae isn't getting worse, and it looks better every time I trim (new leaves don't have algae.) I am still trying to get some pistia, but I'll repost if (when?) the algae goes away entirely.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

get bulbs that are marked 'daylight'. They're 6500K.
GE makes some CFL daylight.


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## Tony65 (Jun 3, 2006)

Are we talking about the black/grey beard hairy algae that's about 0.5cm tall and covers plant leaves?

If so, my advice would be to leave replacement water to stand for 24-48 hours before use, instead of treating it and then dumping into the tank. I'm assuming you just have chlorine to worry about and don't have chloramines, otherwise treat with conditioner and then leave the water to stand.

I live in a hard water area and my tap water is sourced from underground (like Ohio?). Used fresh it has lots of extra carbonates in it from the ground it passes thru. BBA can process this supply far quicker than the tanks occupant plants when a sudden influx hits during a water change or top-up.

Leaving the water to stand will stabilise it and bleed off the excess Co2/carbonate.

You can test this out: if the plants suddenly start giving off oxygen bubbles after a water change you have excess carbonate.

I was plagued with BBA until I started letting the water stand before use. Of course, the El Natural top-up only method minimises the need for water replacement but treated fresh top-ups can still flood carbonate.

Once it stopped flourishing all the remaining BBA was gradually removed by Yamato shrimp - they'll eat it if they are hungry enough.

Hope this helps


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Our water is treated with chloramine. I only keep 2 gallons of water ready, so recently have been using treated tap with maintenance. I haven't seen bubbling when I do change water, though. I will try to have enough ready before I change water from now on and see if that helps.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Here are a few responses to your comments about the 10 gal: 

"Both tanks are now at 74 deg F right now, neither is heated. 
Now the 20 gallon is getting the same algae. But an even worse issue is that I can't see much growth happening now in either tank." 

***With everything you've been doing, you should be getting better plant growth. 

I would try adding a heater to one of the tanks and bumping the temperature up to 78-80F, especially the one you want to grow duckweed in. I suspect that your plants would grow faster at a higher temperature. 


"So the 10 gallon still has two CFL's that use 7watts each, but say they replace 40w bulbs. What does that mean? 

***It means that your two CFLs produce the same amount of light as two 40 watt bulbs. For the same electrical consumption, CFLs always give off much more intense light than ordinary (tungsten, fluorescent, etc) light bulbs. CFLs are energy-efficient and save lots of electricity. A very good thing!

With the two 7 watt CFLs, you've now got the equivalent of 80 watts-worth of ordinary light over your 10 gal. In my book, I recommended 1-3 watts of ordinary light per gallon. You've now got 8 watts per gal, plus the strong room light. This excessive lighting is too much for the submerged plants, and the excess is stimulating algae. 

Until you get better plant growth, I would use just one CFL. This will give you 40 watts-worth of ordinary light or 4 watts/gal. Once the plants get growing, you could try adding the second light.

Please note that I am not suggesting that people use the old-fashion, wasteful fluorescent lighting that I use. For my book, I just chose ordinary lighting to base my watts/gal lighting recommendations. CFL and other energy-efficient lighting are a good thing!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Here are a few responses to your comments about the 10 gal:

"Both tanks are now at 74 deg F right now, neither is heated. 
Now the 20 gallon is getting the same algae. But an even worse issue is that I can't see much growth happening now in either tank."

***With everything you've been doing, you should be getting better plant growth.

I would try adding a heater to one of the tanks and bumping the temperature up to 78-80F, especially the one you want to grow duckweed in. I suspect that your plants would grow faster at a higher temperature.

"So the 10 gallon still has two CFL's that use 7watts each, but say they replace 40w bulbs. What does that mean?

***It means that your two CFLs produce the same amount of light as two 40 watt bulbs. For the same electrical consumption, CFLs always give off much more intense light than ordinary (tungsten, fluorescent, etc) light bulbs. CFLs are energy-efficient and save lots of electricity. A very good thing!

With the two 7 watt CFLs, you've now got the equivalent of 80 watts-worth of ordinary light over your 10 gal. In my book, I recommended 1-3 watts of ordinary light per gallon. You've now got 8 watts per gal, plus the strong room light. This excessive lighting is too much for the submerged plants, and the excess is stimulating algae.

Until you get better plant growth, I would use just one CFL. This will give you 40 watts-worth of ordinary light or 4 watts/gal. Once the plants get growing, you could try adding the second light.

Please note that I am not suggesting that people use the old-fashion, wasteful fluorescent lighting that I use. For my book, I used ordinary lighting to base my watts/gal lighting recommendations, not to recommend that people use this type of lighting. I encourage people to use CFLs and other energy-efficient lighting for their tanks, but remember to use less wattage. For CFLs, I would recommend 0.3 to 1 watts per gal.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Thank you Ms Walstad, I will add the heater to the 10 gallon. I'll look for the other heater, for the 20, as well. I think I'm going to get another $5 clamp light and take off the 10 gal hood all together, this way I could get the light to fall on the whole tank. Trying to make the hoods that came with the tanks work has been a hassle. When I do get a bigger tank (probably Christmas or whenever there's a dollar-a-gallon tank sale again) I won't buy a hood for it.
The Water Lettuce is in, and I've added more plants to both tanks. They are jam-packed, both, now. I put the Bettas in, one with the Cherry Shrimp in the 10 and the other in the community 20gal. The extra plants came from their tanks. I watched and was ready to remove them if there was a fight- but all has been well for 2 days now. The Dwarf Gouramis actually asserted themselves immediately, in their usual poking way, and Betta hid for a bit. Now everyone is swimming peaceably. I was surprised. The Betta in the 20 is fine with the Amano Shrimp. The Cherry Shrimp have gone into hiding, however. I've given up on having a big colony of them, and that's ok. 
All of this is my learning process. I still want a big community NPT (75 gallons hopefully). I am thinking ahead to what I'll need. *Would heater cables be better for the plants in the next set-up? (as opposed to my test-tube-like water heater hanging over the side) How do you lay it in with soil? Would I need to put sand down first, just enough to cover all of the heater cables, or can I just put the dirt directly on heater cables? * (Sorry if this is a dumb question. I still have concerns about all of the electrical equipment in the water.) 
Thinking ahead for a big tank: heater cables, my Submariner UV filter and a very small HOB filter with carbon as needed, lit with clamp on (architect) lights would be the easiest set-up. Maybe a glass or plexi top. I have most of this already. Input?


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

I just wanted to add my two cents about using heaters in your tank.

I think a regular heater would be fine for it. The largest tank I have is a ten gallon and I have one of those Hagen Mini submersible heaters in there(you'll need a larger one, of course) and all of my plants are doing well. If you have some water movement in there then the heat should spread through the tank evenly so I don't think you'll need to use heater cables.

This is just my opinion though. I'm sure someone else will be able to give you more info on this.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Thanks Mandy, I have a hard time assimilating all the info; I don't have a long background in fish keeping or any experience in high tech tanks to fall back on. It's all fairly new to me.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

mommyeireanne said:


> Thanks Mandy, I have a hard time assimilating all the info; I don't have a long background in fish keeping or any experience in high tech tanks to fall back on. It's all fairly new to me.


I'm new to this as well so I understand where you're coming from. The only reason I prefer using regular heaters is because I used one for my betta when he was in a tank that was getting 100% water changes once a week and I could easily remove the heater any time I wanted. Also, I think if you had heater cables underneath the substrate(even if it was just in the gravel) and you had to remove them for whatever the reason may be, it would make a bit of a mess in the tank whereas you wouldn't have that problem with a regular heater.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I agree with Red Rose totally about heaters.

For any future tanks, I would stick with the method that works for you. Work with, learn from, and enjoy your 10 and 20 gals for awhile. You've really only begun....


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

Ok, now I'm confused.
I thought we all rate W/g based on aquarium fluorescent wattage since incadescents produce a lot of wasted heat.

Don't 7W CFL actual produce the same or possibly less light as a 7W aquarium fluorescent bulb.
All the calculations in other forums refer to fluorescent light levels.

Your book states "Use about 2-3 watts of flourescent light per gal of tank water" on page 178.
Not "ordinary light". Obviously using less if near a window is a good thing.

Are the flourescents you mention in your book the older kind and the aquarium ones we use are more efficient?

Diana maybe I'm just misunderstanding the post, and this is more of comparison between CFLs and aquarium flourescents.

Discussion here are always interesting and informative. 
Thanks


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

I was confused, too. I think I've got it now. Thanks for the explanation Ms W. 
The comparison is as you say: between regular tube fluorescents (18", 24", 36" etc.- long tubes, pin ends) and the new Compact Fluorescent Lights (CFL's) that are more energy efficient. These come in all different shapes and types, but for household use are often curled sorta like an ice cream cone to fit into the standard medium screw-in base light bulb silhouette. :idea: Hard to explain without a picture... Does that make more sense or less? 
I was using CFLs and probably this has been the biggest factor in my algae problem. In fact the 20 gallon has no new algal growth that I can tell since I lowered it's wattage. Working on the same now for the little 10 (and the heater which I'm hoping will encourage my cherries to reproduce again) I just ordered these lamps, one for the ten, and two should be enough for any future big tank. I'll put one of the CFL's I already have in it, a 7 watts CFl bulb, or equivalent to 4w q gallon otherwise. 
This hobby is yet another lesson in patience for me. Apparently I need many... I have promised my husband I'd be having fewer tanks as I upgraded. So I have to work the problems through instead of just starting over (a real temptation). I'll want to replant all of my plants in these two tanks into a bigger one. At the same time I can't throw tons of money at every problem, so I need to understand better. I have to say a hearty, "Thank You!" to everyone, for helping me.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

OK, I was overly optimistic. I do have a little new algae growth in the 20, but it seems to have slowed. Maybe the Pistia will do it in, finally.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

newbie314 said:


> Ok, now I'm confused.
> I thought we all rate W/g based on aquarium fluorescent wattage since incadescents produce a lot of wasted heat.
> 
> Don't 7W CFL actual produce the same or possibly less light as a 7W aquarium fluorescent bulb.
> ...


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

Thanks Diana, this is very imformative.
I wasn't aware the book was talking about hardware (less grade) lights.
This makes me feel better about the W/g on myh 20g-long. Although I shouldn't worry since I get light from a window (even in winter) and my plants are growing like crazy (every 2 weeks for a prune).
I think the algea wafers and crab food have some nutrients that don't exist in betta food (Val in betta tank seem to have started regrowing after I started feeding the few shrimp in there).

I did a mod on the hood with mylar for the 20g-long (I sold some mylar on this board). The shape is still not ideal.
No need to mod the 2 and 2.5 gallon since they have a 10w bulb.
Although no real problems on the 2.5 gallon with that much light.
I'm picky and use the 5500k for the 2.5 and the 4200k for the 20g-long.
I do notice minor increase in algae growth on the 20g-long now that it is summer. Those higher frequency components and the windows are blue tinted so the higher freq. are let through.

I do agree with the drsfostersmith catalog. Fun read but man all the light choices do hurt.

The catalog is interesting because I see all the equipement people are buying and we (El natural) don't need.
The whole "El Natural" falls right in line with my utilitarian and minimalist style


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

An update on my algae situation:

I am still working on the algae. I took the tops off of both tanks and added armed, clamp on architect's lights, a cheaper fix at $11 each. The bulbs are easy to find with varying wattages and in CF. Plus they will work for any larger tank I get at some point. I have 10 actual watts CFL on the 10 gallon and I have a CFL which states "replaces a 60 watt bulb" on the 20 gallon. I am also splitting the photo period in the afternoon just for kicks. 

I dug out the heater I had, and it seemed to have improved my plant growth. I think the thing is on the blink as of yesterday, though. I'll replace it.

I also made the decision to dose with Flourish Excel. I am really not happy with the 10 and may tear it down and replant it. I don't know if the one small dose of Excel killed the femals RCS. I moved the rest of them to the 20 gallon, to empty the 10 gallon for a replant. But then my son and husband got the flu so I didn't get to it. Also, one of the Dwarf Gouramis shredded my bettas tail, so he went back into 10 gallon by himself. There are so many reports of people overdosing with Excel and no harm to fish- I decided to do it. I am dosing 2 cc's to the 10 gallon every day. The Betta seems fine. The BBA is starting to turn white, so I'll complete a 10 day round of it and see how it goes.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Update on my two little tanks. I am very pleased with the 10 gallon since I dosed it with Excel for seven days. The Black Brush algae is still gone from this tank. However, the 20, which I only added a bit of excel to, has BBA coming back. So, I am now adding 4ccs a day to the 20 gallon. You can see the lights here. I can use the CFL's around the house when they are changed out after a year. The room is so bright, with sun coming in from the opposite wall (mostly windows) that it's hard to get good pictures. My amateur attempts are either too dark or showing glass glare. The animals seem happy. All of my Anabantoids have bubble nests going. The Beta's is huge now. The Dwarf Gouramis' tend to wash away after 3-4 days. I also have three emergent fronds in the 10, not just the one shown: Two water sprite, in the picture, and a H. difformis which tried to come out, but the leaves blackened and it appears to be dying off. I attribute this to my very dry house, and the air conditioning. The sprite just isn't holding it's own in the 20 (against many Hygros?), yet it loves the 10. Two have come out, but more branches are laying across the surface. It is out-competing the duckweed. Go figure.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Just wanted to reassure you about your cherry shrimp and excell. I have dosed excel at 2xs the beginning rate and spot treated it in my cherry shrimp tank. It never hurt anyone. I repeated the spot dosing the full amount for many days until there were NO spots of BBA left. I also have DIY CO2 running in that tank at a light green drop checker level. (It's only when I let the CO2 run out that I have had the BBA. Silly me. ) I use a baby medicine dropper which goes up to 5 ml for my dosing. I dose 2ml and it does the trick. Once it's gone it doesn't return - unless I'm negligent again! :mrgreen:


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's related to my high pH or very hard water. The shrimp and my Oto seem fine, so I have stopped worrying about it. The dwarf gourami's menace everything, at least occasionally. Not as peaceful as I thought. I still like the soil based tanks, natural but for Excel and water conditioner. I sure admire the beauty and growth of CO2 tanks, but it's more work than I want right now. Thanks for the note.


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