# Cryptocoryne cordata Griffith var. siamensis ?



## will5 (Oct 26, 2005)

Hi Wilma sent me a plant and told me that it was given to her as crypt siamensis, but all i could find that even comes close to that name is *Cryptocoryne cordata Griffith var. siamensis. * So if this is what this plant is what are some tips for growing it submersed?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Ghazanfar Ghori (Jan 27, 2004)

Could it be C. crispatula var. sinensis?


----------



## will5 (Oct 26, 2005)

It could be. I will have to wati till it puts out a new leaf to see what it reall it.

I also could not find any pics of C. crispatula var. sinensis.


----------



## rs79 (Dec 7, 2004)

http://www.nationaalherbarium.nl/Cryptocoryne/Gallery/cor/cor.html

"This plant with 2n = 68 chromosomes represents the C. cordata ("siamensis") complex."

The cordata species compec is very variable and there are lots of cultivars with different chromosome number. Although there is no such species as "Cryptocoryne siamensis" officially plants have circulate dunder that name in the hobby for yeard. Even Wikipedia lists it as a species.

(Note to self: fix that)


----------



## newellcr (Nov 16, 2004)

Folks,

Rataj in his "Revision of the genus Cryptocoryne Fischer" does list C siamensis as a species. Rataj's work seems to currently be out-of-favor, but I believe it remains valid. Most of the internet savvy Crypt keepers seem to use Jan's site as the definitive work. Maybe it is, but the is contention in the scientific community as to the make up of genus Crytocoryne. 

Maybe someone who understands this better can chime in?

Kind Regards,

Chris


----------



## rs79 (Dec 7, 2004)

Jan's site follows Jacobsen and is considered authoritative.

Rataj's 1975 work you cite had many errors.

http://www.nationaalherbarium.nl/Cryptocoryne/Gallery/cor/cor.html

"Later on Rataj (1974, 1975, 1977) made some poor descriptions of 'new' Crypts, all of them to be regarded as synonyms of C. cordata var. cordata (see the Synonyms page)."

The "synonyms page":
http://www.nationaalherbarium.nl/Cryptocoryne/Botanical/synonyms.html

"C. cordata Griffith var. cordata 1851

Synonyms:
C. blassii De Wit	1960
C. evae Rataj var. evae	1974
C. evae Rataj var. recordata Rataj	1974
C. kerrii Gagnepain	1941
C. siamensis Gagnepain	1941
C. siamensis Gagnepain var. ewansii Rataj	1975
C. siamensis Gagnepain var. kerrii (Gagnepain) Rataj	1975
C. stonei Rataj	1975"

At any rate, treat the plant as cordata and you'll do fine.


----------



## SCMurphy (Jan 28, 2004)

Rataj has one name left as valid, everything else has been changed.


----------



## rs79 (Dec 7, 2004)

Rataj to me is synonomous with "wrong name". In his (really good I like it otherwise) book it says right on the front inside cover, in effect "the names may not be right".


----------



## newellcr (Nov 16, 2004)

Hello Sean and rs79,

We are talking about opinions. The scientific method for naming species has long been a subject of dispute. Jacobsen does fine work. Rataj has made mistakes, but I think Rataj's work is overly maligned. Every book should say "the names might not be right." Credit to Rataj for stating it upfront. 

Kind Regards,

Chris


----------



## SCMurphy (Jan 28, 2004)

Chris you should try showing up to the ECS with a copy of Rataj's 'Aquarium Plants' TFH publications and see the looks you get. I know because I did.  That's when you'd see the dislike for his work. Here we are just discussing if it is still accepted, not if he fouled it up in anyway.


----------



## rs79 (Dec 7, 2004)

One might ask, what is a species and who gets to decide? At the end of the day it's all just opinion. A species is whatever the expert in the field says it is and the community can agree or disagree. 

You can publish your own revision of Cryptocoryne. Do a better job than Jaconsen and you're the man. Do a bad job and you'll be ignored.

The consensus is, Jacobsens work good, Rataj's work, not so good. You are free to disagree.

However, doing so would be a minority view.


----------

