# Blue Rams?



## HUNTER (Dec 22, 2005)

How many blue rams can i have in my 60g tank?, right now i have 6 ottos and 2 rasboras. I'm thinking of having only blue rams, thanks.


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## raven_wilde (Nov 16, 2005)

Hmmm... let's see, probably 10 or 12. Blue rams are great little fish, I'm very pleased with mine, although they will eat the smaller shrimp so keep that in mind, if you've got shrimp. Also, try to have at least 2:1 ratio of females to males, it seems to curb the bit of aggression they have. I'd keep the ottos around though, for cleanup.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

Hunter,
I'm not trying to sound negative, but I would do alot of research on blue rams before you dedicate a tank to them. 

Most of the ones I have come across are prone to internal parasites and do very poorly long-term. Many people will say I have them and their great, but most of those people have had them months not years. Speaking of years their lifespan is only about 2 years.

Again this is my experience and talking to LFS and other sources. I would be interested to hear othe APC members experiences with them, especially long-term.

I've kept these fish for up to a year and they look great for the first few months and envitably they succumb to an infection. I have other sensitive fish that have lived long lives in my tank, but ther rams are very difficult. Bolivian Rams are a much better choice and do show good color once acclimated.


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## Pseud (Oct 19, 2005)

I've kept rams for about 6 months and then they suddenly just die for no reason, or develop septecemia or something. I heard their lifespan was just a year. But in any case, it's short. I do know someone who says they've had theirs alive for 4 years! Which surprised me, but I have no reason to believe he's lying.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Short life span, incredibly beautiful and great 'personality'. I think an entire tank full would be a bit much IMO. I currently have only 1 male in with a huge variety of other stuff. He's the jewel of the tank for sure. My previous ram died of some lingering illness after only about 4 months. One of the very few fish deaths I've had recently. The LFS said he'd been in their tank for quite a while before I got him - who knows how old he was.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

Yes, they are one of the few more "saltwater" like fish in terms of color. The bolivans have an even more dynamic personality in my opinion and do color up in shades of orange and blue.


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## HUNTER (Dec 22, 2005)

Two years, that's very short of a lifespan, maybe i will try a pair and see what happens, thanks guys.


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## Pseud (Oct 19, 2005)

I'd actually hesitate to put more than a single m/f pair in anything less than 100 gallons, but that's just me....


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## raven_wilde (Nov 16, 2005)

Why is that Pseud?

Another note about blue rams:
The guy at my LFS- the good one that I trust- told me that the majority of blue rams that are sold in this country are imported from asia, and that these are the ones with the problems- something about they water they are bred in versus the water here in the US. He recommends, and only stocks, the ones he gets from breeders in florida. These are the rams I have, going on about 5 months now, so we'll see how they do in the long run.


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## Pseud (Oct 19, 2005)

Because of the aggression. I understand you can minimize it with plenty of hiding spaces etc but for me, that's not good enough. I want my fish to be in the best health and thus look in the greatest health they can. Anything below par just doesn't do it for me...


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## star rider (Feb 27, 2006)

I'll poke my nose in here.

the biggest issue is finding a good stock of Ram's. Keep in mind that the rams in most stores are just about adult, given the coloration(which is what the store wants since a lot of folks byuy them because they are beautiful).
that said..the average lifespan I have found is 1-3 years..short lived.
kind of the bright star thing here.

once you find the good stock..you have to keep in mind they are Cichlids..and cichlids being cichlids tend to become agressive and territorial should you wind up with a pair.

Something to keep in mind when stocking your tanks...in a 60 you might be okay with 2 pair..but generally what I have learned from folks who raise and breed rams..is two females to 1 male..once they pair up..remove the other female..bad things can happen to the other female.


raven..if your IFS can get locally bred rams you are lucky and this is the best way to get rams. okay I'll get off my soapbox now


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## raven_wilde (Nov 16, 2005)

yes, I am very, very lucky with my LFS... although it's really not local anymore since I moved, but I make the 40 min drive, they're worth being loyal to, espeically because of their livestock.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Are Blue rams the same thing as German rams and Bolivian rams?

I got some Bollivian Rams from PetsMart...I kinda have an idea what food is good, sampled some..taste good to me... just kidding 

However, I would like to hear what people feed their Rams.

-John N.


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

John N. said:


> Are Blue rams the same thing as German rams and Bolivian rams?
> 
> I got some Bollivian Rams from PetsMart...I kinda have an idea what food is good, sampled some..taste good to me... just kidding
> 
> ...


Bolivian Rams (Microgeophagus altispinosa) are different from German Blue Rams/Blue Rams (Microgeophagus ramirezi); they're bigger and not as colorful, IMO.

I feed mine NLS Community Formula, it really brings out the colors out of them. As soon as I get my digital camera I will post a shot of a beautiful male I have.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Thanks, Raul. Yes, looking through the various threads. I have to concurr, and also think that the other rams are more colorful than the Bolivian rams...but I also read that the bolivian rams are suppose to be hardier than the others.

So anyone know what I should be feeding these bad boys?
I fedTetramin flakes to the tank, they sucked them up, and spit them out imeediately. Tried frozen bloodworms, either they didn't see them or just ignored them. Anyone have food input?

-John N.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

I feed mine bloodworms, white mosquito larvae, and brine shrimp. They don't seem to like the flake stuff very much. They can be slow, picky eaters. I'm not quite sure how mine get anything competing with congos & rummies.


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## freydo (Jan 7, 2006)

just to pipe in myself, i had some blue rams (3) and they quickly died after about 3 weeks, even though conditions in my tank were okay. i had a gold ram years ago that lived for about a year before it passed on. now those i would love to get more of.


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## TetraFreak (Mar 15, 2006)

I've got Bolivian Rams and they're doing good eating amongst tetras.

Rams like lots of stuff.

BBS is always a favorite of theirs,
NLS is something good for them,
Sinking Cichlid pellets are good as well.

Mine get Hikari "sinking wafers" & "Cichlid Staple" and are doing good with that plus the tetra flakes that make it down to the bottom.


A Well Fed Ram is a Happy Ram!


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Mine readily eat OSI flake food, and they really enjoy things like frozen bloodworms and NLS growth food.


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## Pseud (Oct 19, 2005)

I feed my bluies tetra flake. I hold some flakes with forceps and make it sink so all the tetra get the stuff on the surface, while the rams still manage to get some. They also get a treat of frozen brine shrimp once or twice a week.


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## GraFFix (Feb 24, 2005)

I keep gold rams and I absolutly love the fish. Ive tried blue rams before and no matter how perfect my water is and acclimation process is they never lasted more then a week. Ive had better luck with my golds and I think they look alot nicer too. definatly the stars of my tank.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

*Difference between German Ram and Bolivian Ram*

Before I knew the differences I purchase these two fish from different locations.
Thought I share a few photos to add to the discussion.

Meet Spike: German Balloon (stunted) Ram










Now for the Bolivian Ram









The color and characteristic differences are astounding.

-John N.


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## ramsvella (Apr 24, 2005)

I agree that bolivians are less colourful compared to the m.ramirezi. However the former need to be given their deserved credit. They have a great personality in a planted tank taking over the bottom middle levels. Moreover, they are comparatively easily bred and if conditioned with good quality staple food and occasional frozen or live food their colour is not bad at all.

This is a slightly better pic of my m. altispinosa:


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## TetraFreak (Mar 15, 2006)

Bilivian Rams are quite beautiful when they're well fed & happy! they become a gorgeous Yellow!

and personalities...
Mine are characters! I have 6 Bolivians that sometimes think they're Lemon Tetras...they school with the lemons! LOL


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