# [Wet Thumb Forum]-clarifying some fertilization info



## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

ok so ive been researching a lot on ferts lately and ive been finding some info thats confusing me. first off i read rex's articles on fert help and what not. he states that plants need nitrates and phosphates? however i look at most of the ferts on the market and they all read NO NITRATES and NO PHOSPHATES. what am i missing? i have fish in the tank are they supposed to add the nitrates and phosphates? what am i missing? also, what are the ideal levels for all macros in terms of ppm. thanks


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

ok so ive been researching a lot on ferts lately and ive been finding some info thats confusing me. first off i read rex's articles on fert help and what not. he states that plants need nitrates and phosphates? however i look at most of the ferts on the market and they all read NO NITRATES and NO PHOSPHATES. what am i missing? i have fish in the tank are they supposed to add the nitrates and phosphates? what am i missing? also, what are the ideal levels for all macros in terms of ppm. thanks


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

IMO, a lot of the ferts on the market were made with a low light no CO2 aquarium in mind.
With low light and CO2 not injected you will have to do water changes to keep the NO3 & PO4 levels down because the plants will use them very slowly, so ferts that don't add these are great for that type of tank.

In a high light and CO2 injected tank the plants will use/consume all ferts very fast.
In this type of tank you will have to add NO3 & PO4 because the plants will use much more than your fish can provide.

NO3 = 5-10 ppm
PO4 = 0.5-1.0 ppm
K = 10-20 ppm

hope this helps


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

hi ekim
ok so for ferts with co2 in mind i will need the following
nitrates
phosphates
potassium
iron
and trace?
is that correct or am i missing something again? sorry im a newbie to this whole fertilization stuff. also what are good cheap sources for these? i have heard about PMDD but dont think i have the technical knowhow to make my own are there commercial versions of this avaliable on the market? or is anyone willing to sell me some of their own home made PMDD? one last question what test kits are you guys using to test for your ppm for each of the macro and micro nutrients. i apologize for so many questions i would just like to get this right the first time thanks again.


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## Vinlo (Jul 27, 2004)

ptahkeem, that's all of them. Seachem now makes a Flourish Nitrogen (nitrates) and Flourish Phosphorous (phosphates) and Flourish Potassium, you can dose these.. it will probably get expensive pretty quick though. I would just go to a hydroponics store (if you have one locally, or order off the net) and get KNO3 (Potassium Nitrate), KH2PO4 (Uhh.. phosphate something or other) and then some KCl (Potassium Chloride) or K2SO4 (Potassium Sulfate). Get those chemicals and then go to 
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_dosage_calc.htm
and mix per you tank size and desired ppm.

very good site.. look around, Chuck explains a lot of stuff quite well.. very helpful. I just add Flourish and Flourish Iron for for the other stuff. You'd have to ask someone else about using Plantex CSM or something similar.

Well.. that's my take on it anyways.
_____________________________
30g, 2wpg, 90% Flourite, DIY CO2, HOB


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

hi vinlo
ok so its cheaper to go with the dry goods and then mix them myself? how would i do this. i havent the slightest clue on how to mix these nor dose them. if you could maybe give me a list of steps you go through to make these dry goods into a nice food for my plants it would be very helpful. anyone?


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## Guest (May 31, 2003)

How big's your tank?
Also work on gettiung the CO2 in good shape and stable before getting into the doing the routine I'll suggest for you.
It's pretty simple.
Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

i have a 40 gallon acrylic tank van grow. my pressurized co2 is currently down and out due to the fact that i need to refill my co2 bottle.


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2003)

Well till you take care of the CO2, adding anything else will not matter.

Take care of that if you want to improve the tank. Don't even worry about NO3, PO4 etc till you deal with that.

Once that's done:
This routine is based on a 50% weekly water change.

Add 1/3 teaspoon K2SO4 once a week
Add 1/3 teaspoon of KNO3 2x a week
Add 3 rice grain's worth of KH2PO4 2-3x a week
Add 8 mls of Flourish 2-3x a week

You might need more frequent KNO3 if the tank is doing well. You'd add another dose so 3x a week instead. Same for the PO4, trace.

This will NOT work well if you do not have the CO2 in good shape. 

The routine removes any excess by water changes and keep anything from running from dosing 2-3x a week.

That way you have relatively constant nutirents for the plants all the time.

It's pretty easy to add the nutrients(2-3x a week) and do water changes(once a week). 

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

Hi Van
ok so co2 levels should be around 20ppms right? after that i just follow your predescribed regimen. oh by the way hehe im sort of bad with chemical names would you please clarify those compounds for me thanks hehe.
K2SO4 is potassium sulfate?
KNO3 is potassium nitrate?
KH2PO4 is i have no idea lol


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> ok so co2 levels should be around 20ppms right?


20-30 range is fine



> quote:
> 
> K2SO4 is potassium sulfate?
> KNO3 is potassium nitrate?
> KH2PO4 is i have no idea lol


Correct to first two. Last one is monopotassium phosphate

Join as at www.njas.net


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

hi jay
thanks for the clarification! 
ok here are some water parameters that i know so far before adding pressurized co2.
pH 7.5
KH 4degrees
GH a whopping 14degrees
Nitrites 0ppm

so far thats all i can measure. i just recently got a nitrate test kit so ill be able to measure that soon but i still need to get kits for iron, phosphate, and potassium. can anyone recommend some cheap test kits for these? thanks! also if i have my co2 bubbling at 28 bubbles per minute should i be ok to up the rate?


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2003)

- Iron kit - not necessary. Look at plants and correct levels if needed. 
- Phosphate kit - Salifert (cheaper), Lamotte (expensive)
- Potassium kit - not necessary. Very expensive. Supply your tank with around 10-20ppm and you should be fine.

I like to start my tanks with 1 bubble per second and go from there. I usually end up using 1:1 or even more. I prefer more water movement in my tank which will cause some CO2 lose than minimal water movement and slower bubble rate. If you have pressurized CO2 then use it up.

Join as at www.njas.net


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

Just for those that care, KH2PO4 has may names. Its technical name is Potassium Phosphate Monobasic.

other names that are often used are:
Monopotassium phosphate
Phosphoric acid, monopotassium salt
Potassium dihydrogenorthophosphate
Potassium dihydrogen phosphate (this is the one that I usually use in the lab)
Potassium Phosphate Monobasic


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## Ptahkeem (Feb 16, 2004)

ok
ive gotten my co2 to a good level now and tested some parameters and this is what i got today.
pH approx. 6.8 I cant really tell due to the color being so close
kH 4degrees
gH didnt bother to measure
Nitrate approx 5 ppm

I dont have any other test kits so I cant measure my phosphate, iron, and potassium levels. 

One questions though Im using this stuff called Horizon growers and I dont know the exact amount of micros and macros in the stuff. Does anyone know the amount of each macro and micro in this fert? Thanks.

On a side note I am getting an infestation of staghorn algae and I have no idea whats causing this. I know that its caused due to an imbalance of co2 to ferts but I dont really see a cause for this to happen? Im gonna try cutting the time that I keep the lights on from 14 hours down to 10 and hopefully this works. If anyone else has any suggestions please let me know. Thanks


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