# Brown Female Blue Ram



## DJKronik57 (Apr 17, 2006)

Bear with me for a second while I explain this Blue Ram saga:

I bought 2 female Blue Rams from a LFS back in April, and apparently they were sourced from the Czech Republic, so I figured they wouldn't be weak, inbred, or hopped up on hormones like the Asian bred ones. Apparently not, since I nearly lost one female when she developed bloat right after I got them home. She never fully recovered (she was the one the employee said was "a nice fat female." Never buy the nice fat cichlid, I've learned). She lost her colors and went a brownish greyish color, with no blue left at all, and none of the pretty irridescent blue specs that make Blue Rams so beautiful. She ate fine, swam around, and acted perfectly normal. Sadly, she passed away about a month ago.

The second female paired with my male ram and spawned about 4 times. She had vibrant coloration and was the picture of perfect health. Then, all of a sudden, the male turned on her and kept chasing her around. She lost all her colors and went the same brownish-grey that the other female went. She hasn't spawned since (about 2 months). She also hasn't grown nearly as much as the male (if at all).

Here's a before and after picture of the same female:



















Sorry for the bad picture!

Why do these females keep going a drab brown-grey and look so unhealthy? There are no visible signs of disease or abuse. They eat and act healthy. Anyone know what's going on?


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

Female rams are typically much less colorful than the males but why they change I couldn't tell you.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

About my only observation with them is that they are the most vibrant color when they are ready to spawn, and otherwise they can be a somewhat dull color if they aren't interested in "standing out" for the male.

Another thought is that if the male is harassing her she's both stressed (which will cause a loss of color), and she's probably trying to blend in with her surroundings so she isn't as noticeable to him.

If she's acting fine and eating well, I'd just let her go about her business to see how it goes.
You may even want to try to separate them to see if she does better that way.


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## Ownager2004 (Apr 18, 2006)

Im not sure what your tank situation is, but you could try adding a couple good hiding spots to reduce the tension.


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## DJKronik57 (Apr 17, 2006)

Well, whatever was wrong with her finally did her in. I found her dead on the bottom the other morning. She was starting to look a little skinny lately. Could it have been some sort of disease or parasite? She ate normally. Odd thing is this is exactly what happened to the other female ram I bought at the same time.


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## AlexTal (Mar 23, 2006)

DJ, where did you find these rams? I'm looking to get a male-female pair, but have had issues finding a female.

On the other hand, I recently lost two males. The first male didn't look healthy when I got him home, I figured it was stressed. About a week and a half of the other male chasing him, he finally passed. Recently, the other male passed. I think I may have been adding too many nitrates. On top of that, one of my cousins was over when I was to be gone for two days and blew the fuse in my room and didn't let anyone know ... so the lights and the filters were off for that time.


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## DJKronik57 (Apr 17, 2006)

I bought the two females and one male at Uncle Ned's Fish Factory in Millis for $12 each. He usually always has some, but check his website (www.unclenedsfishfactory.com) in the forums to make sure he has some left. He gets them from a farm in the Czech Republic. The male I have is still alive, not to mention absolutely beautiful. He has such a long graceful dorsal fin now. That's why I really want some females as well, so I can have some nice offspring from him.

I found some females at the local (Brighton) Petco, and tried to rescue them as they were obviously infested with parasites and one is doing very well. The other was doing well but developed strange wounds that never healed and passed away lastnight. All I can do is hope the male takes a liking to this new female, I have yet to put them together.

It seems like the big struggle with rams is not only finding them, but finding ones that are healthy and live longer than a week! Such pretty fish, it's a shame they've been bred so intensively and wrecklessly and are now so weak and loaded up with hormones when you find them.


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## IndianaSam (Mar 25, 2005)

DJKronik57 said:


> It seems like the big struggle with rams is not only finding them, but finding ones that are healthy and live longer than a week! Such pretty fish, it's a shame they've been bred so intensively and wrecklessly and are now so weak and loaded up with hormones when you find them.


Mark, over at AnubiasDesign, is selling Wild Rams for $4.50 each or 6 for $27 or 12 for $48.

So if you're sick of the weak domestic stock, then maybe you should give wild stock a try. They're supposed to be much, much more healthy than a lot of the petstore stock you'll find.


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## Turbosaurus (May 24, 2006)

I love them, but I can't bear to buy any more. Everyone I've ever had has died on me within a month or less. I bet I've gone through 30 in the last 10 years. Breaks my heart.


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## DJKronik57 (Apr 17, 2006)

IndianaSam said:


> Mark, over at AnubiasDesign, is selling Wild Rams for $4.50 each or 6 for $27 or 12 for $48.


Nice! But how do I buy them, must I become a member of the group or is there a 
"shop" page that I'm missing? I also only would order 1 or 2 females, so I'm not sure if shipping is worth it.

Also, don't I have to worry about my water softness much more if I get them from the wild? My water out of the tap is really soft, but for some reason gets very hard in the tank, so I'm worried they won't like my water.


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## IndianaSam (Mar 25, 2005)

DJKronik57 said:


> Nice! But how do I buy them, must I become a member of the group or is there a
> "shop" page that I'm missing? I also only would order 1 or 2 females, so I'm not sure if shipping is worth it.
> 
> Also, don't I have to worry about my water softness much more if I get them from the wild? My water out of the tap is really soft, but for some reason gets very hard in the tank, so I'm worried they won't like my water.


You can just sign up for the yahoo email list to get a current stock list.

You may be right, though. Shipping costs may be too much if you're just wanting a couple of fish.


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## sherry (Sep 30, 2005)

it depends where you live.. Mark's shipping to NYCity is wicked cheap because he is in PA. $10 to my house.


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## LindaC (Nov 7, 2005)

I was just reading this post about your female Rams and I want to say that I have had a lot of problems with the female Rams that I've purchased at my LFS. I see that you live in the Boston area, well so do I and I have purchased quite a few Rams from the Cambridge Petco and have had decent luck with the males but none whatsoever with the females. I found a dealer on Aquabid that was selling tank raised Rams and purchased some from him and still have them! I had wanted two and he sent me five, so I sold a couple to a friend of mine to keep them from terrorizing each other. She still has hers and I still have my pair and I purchased them back in March. This is the longest I've had a female Ram last for me.

I will never purchase them again from LFS, they just don't do well. Try and find a breeder who raises them in his tank, I think you'll have a lot more luck!

Linda


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## AlexTal (Mar 23, 2006)

Thanks for the advice. I've basically given up on the rams. I have a cockatoo cichlid and my discus now and they all seem to be doing fantastic. If my apisto goes, I might try the rams again, but for now, I'm happy with how my tank has turned out. Thanks though, always good to know.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

IndianaSam gave some good advice above. I've e-mailed Mark at anubiasdesign about his wildcaught rams. He says there is absolutely no comparison. This is a species that has been done no favors by the breeders. In my tank I have three rams that I got from Uncle Ned's prior to moving to Idaho. The males are great - the female kind of limps along.

Next time I order from Mark I'll be getting some rams if he has them in stock.


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## LindaC (Nov 7, 2005)

I just ordered some Pork Chop Rasboras from Mark and if the time should come where I'm looking for more Rams, I will most likely order them from him.

I ordered a pair of wild Rams off of Aqaubid about a year ago and the male is still alive, he's beautiful and living with a friend of mine in Texas, that's a photo of him on my Avatar. I've tried to find more wild Rams but unfortunately, I was unable to find them at the time so I ordered from someone else and still have the same pair.

Yes, there is no comparison between LFS rams and tank breed rams.


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