# Plants that don't need co2? (few other questions)



## Ras (Oct 20, 2013)

Hello, I was wondering what peoples favorite plants are that don't need co2 injections (if there are any)and or, are easy to grow for beginners 

also wondering which of my fixtures would be best for a planted aquarium with fish in it (GBR and ember tetras) 
I have 
2x 4ft 54watt t5HO, 2 bulb fixture 6400k color temp(2 lamp fixtures, but 4 bulbs all together)
1x 4ft 54watt t5HO, single bulb 6400k color temp
1x 4ft 48watt t8 2 bulb fixture 6400k color temp
1x 2ft 18 or 24watt(cant remember) t6 single bulb Zoo med "flora sun" (unknown color temp)

wondering what is the best one to use , how many I should use, and If I should get bulbs with a different color temp
thanks


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## axelrod12 (Mar 15, 2011)

What fixture to use depends a lot on the size/depth of the tank. Also all plants need co2 to an extent. However, with lower light/slower growth plants the co2 present naturally in the water can sometimes be enough making the need for co2 injection unnecessary. Many Crypts, Anubias, Java Ferns, mosses, and some stem plants can be grown fine without the addition of co2 and in lower light. 

I've often heard people recommend building a tank from the inside out. This means deciding what plants you would like to keep and then figuring out what lighting level is needed for them and if co2 is necessary for them. Having said that, it works great if cost is not an issue. Not everyone can afford or is willing to invest in the initial cost of a pressurized co2 system.

The plants listed above are all good for beginners. For stem plants I would look into Hygrophila Difformis, Bacopa Monnieri, and Ludwigia Repens to start. They have all done well for me under lower light.


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## Ras (Oct 20, 2013)

I have a 55 gallon tank, 34in long and idr if 16 in tall and 14 in wide or other way around
and I thought my lights were pretty powerful... are they considered low light?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Ras,

A typical 55 gallon measures 48.3" x 12.8" x 21" high. Your 1x 4ft 54watt t5HO, single bulb 6400k color temp option will give you 'medium light' (approximately PAR = 70) assuming a reasonable reflector. Additional lamps increase the necessity for CO2.

All of these are grown in 'low light' (PAR = 25) with no CO2.


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## Ras (Oct 20, 2013)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi Ras,
> 
> A typical 55 gallon measures 48.3" x 12.8" x 21" high. Your 1x 4ft 54watt t5HO, single bulb 6400k color temp option will give you 'medium light' (approximately PAR = 70) assuming a reasonable reflector. Additional lamps increase the necessity for CO2.
> 
> All of these are grown in 'low light' (PAR = 25) with no CO2.


man gorgeous plants
so with one of the 4ft 54watt t5HO, double bulb 6400k color make it easier to grow more demanding plants that need more light, and or co, w.o co2 (<--edited this part, i didn't read your post right) or is that too bright for my fish
and are these plants you say are "low light" sort of like ferns where there is a chance of them burning and actually doing worse in bright lighting
/edit btw I was saying the dimensions of my tank by memory( i don't have a ruler atm) so they are probably wrong, but you get the jist, its 55 gal
and I was looking at the home made co2 out of a bottle and some yeast etc
how fast does one of those usually run out? is it actually efficient enough to use and does it make the aquarium or room smell? (sorry for so many questions)
AND (last one) does co2, or this yeast mix upset fish?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Ras said:


> man gorgeous plants
> so with one of the 4ft 54watt t5HO, double bulb 6400k color make it easier to grow more demanding plants that need more light, and or co, w.o co2 (<--edited this part, i didn't read your post right) or is that too bright for my fish
> and are these plants you say are "low light" sort of like ferns where there is a chance of them burning and actually doing worse in bright lighting
> /edit btw I was saying the dimensions of my tank by memory( i don't have a ruler atm) so they are probably wrong, but you get the jist, its 55 gal
> ...


Hi Ras,



> so with one of the 4ft 54watt t5HO, double bulb 6400k color make it easier to grow more demanding plants that need more light, and or co, w.o co2


Yes, more light would allow you to grow plant species that require greater light intensity. However keep in mind that success is all about balance. If I increase my light (intensity and/or duration) then I have to increase the nutrients (both balanced fertilizer and available carbon) for the plants. If I fail to maintain balance then I experience poor growth and/or algae issues. As I increase the light level it becomes more difficult to maintain a balance.



> or is that too bright for my fish


Just as various plant species have adapted to different light levels so have fish species; some fish prefer the shadows some prefer bright area.



> and are these plants you say are "low light" sort of like ferns where there is a chance of them burning and actually doing worse in bright lighting


Most plant species are tolerant of a range of lighting levels but tend to thrive at more specific levels of light and nutrients.



> I was looking at the home made co2 out of a bottle and some yeast etc
> how fast does one of those usually run out? is it actually efficient enough to use and does it make the aquarium or room smell?


When I first started with planted tanks I didn't want to invest in CO2 until I knew I was going to enjoy this aspect of our hobby so I did DIY CO2 (yeast, sugar, water) on my 45 gallon for about five (5) months. I used two (2) of the two liter soda bottles connected with a "T" and fed into the input tube of my HOB Aquaclear filter. A bottle would last about six days so I would empty and replace the solution in alternate bottles every three days giving me a more stable CO2 level. I did this for about 4-5 months before it became tedious and time consuming and I bought a used regulator and CO2 bottle on Craigslist adding a good quality needle valve for a reliable system I have used now for over four years. No smell in the room; does not effect fish if CO2 level is kept below 30ppm (keep yeast/sugar solution out of your tank of course). With CO2 I would use the 2x 54 watt 6400K T5HO light fixture.

Hope this helps!

Here is the 45 gallon with DIY CO2, Seachem Flourish, and 96 watt fixture.


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## Ras (Oct 20, 2013)

Christ these are great pics
thanks for the info man


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## Ras (Oct 20, 2013)

Does anyone know if hairgrass needs any special care like fertilizer or co2? same with moss (idc what kind) and baby tears i think they are called
would these work in my tank ?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Ras,

In the 10 gallon tank in the first picture I am growing a taller Eleocharis (hairgrass) species.

For photosynthesis and growth all plants require light along with a variety of nutrients including nitrogen, phosphorus, potash, iron, calcium, magnesium, as well as an assortment of micro-nutrients. Lastly along with light and nutrients plants also require a source of usable carbon molecules for photosynthesis and growth.

Eleocharis sp in background.


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## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

The addition of CO2 is an "invention" from the last decade of two. Before that, plants were grown in many aquaria without additional CO2. Of course, CO2 boosts plant growth and by doing that, makes plants more resistant to adverse other environmental factors. This means that you have somewhat more room for error and can grow somewhat more plants together which otherwise require different water chemistry. Also in the development of aquarium light there are great advances made in the last decades.

However, way before that the so called "Dutch-style" planted aquariums were already world-renown. These boost(ed) very healthy and dense plant growth without additional CO2, in stead the plants relied on CO2 produced by fish and obtained from air. With a good knowledge of fertilization, water chemistry and light also without additional CO2 very impressive results were reached.

So my opinion is that there are actually very few plants which really require additional CO2 in order to grow, but it makes it easier to do so. In general, most slow-growing plants will do well also without additional CO2. Just start with Cryptocoryne, Anubias, Vallisneria and the like and then experiment and learn. Moss in general does not need additional CO2.

I just obtained some oak leaf fern, _Ceratopteris cornuta_, from a local aquarist who is growing it for several decades(!) in very poorly lighted aquaria in "old water" (water which is hardly changed at all) without CO2 addition. His plants are rather small but obviously growing well enough. I put it in an aquarium with rainwater with a little fertilizer but no additional CO2 (but fish are present) and it really takes off now. It tripled size in a forthnight or so. I have some plants floating and some planted: the planted ones receive less light and grow more slowly. I don't want to think about it's growth speed with additional CO2, but very obviously, it grows just fine without added CO2 once the water is soft enough (and it doesn't need as extremely soft water as I give it now).


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## Ras (Oct 20, 2013)

illustrator said:


> The addition of CO2 is an "invention" from the last decade of two. Before that, plants were grown in many aquaria without additional CO2. Of course, CO2 boosts plant growth and by doing that, makes plants more resistant to adverse other environmental factors. This means that you have somewhat more room for error and can grow somewhat more plants together which otherwise require different water chemistry. Also in the development of aquarium light there are great advances made in the last decades.
> 
> However, way before that the so called "Dutch-style" planted aquariums were already world-renown. These boost(ed) very healthy and dense plant growth without additional CO2, in stead the plants relied on CO2 produced by fish and obtained from air. With a good knowledge of fertilization, water chemistry and light also without additional CO2 very impressive results were reached.
> 
> ...


this was my basic logic for it as well, that there arent co2 systems in nature so why should I buy one. Just the plant descriptions on most aquatic plants either stated co2 was either 1) required or 2) suggested for use. Idk. 
thanks for the reply helped a lot 
fertilizers on ebay seem pretty cheap, aswell as aqua soil. Im going to cashout for some soon. My plants seem fine w.o it so far though


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## Ras (Oct 20, 2013)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi Ras,
> 
> In the 10 gallon tank in the first picture I am growing a taller Eleocharis (hairgrass) species.
> 
> ...


isn't some of that in fish food too?


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## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

yes, but not in the ratio in which plants take it up. This is why some firms produce separate fertilizers for aquaria with many and with few fish.


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## Ras (Oct 20, 2013)

what fertilizer root tabs would you recommend for a GBR tank ( I dont want the water to get too hard or something that would irritate them)


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## Yo-han (Oct 15, 2010)

Ras said:


> this was my basic logic for it as well, that there arent co2 systems in nature so why should I buy one.


Because 95% of the plants we use in our aquaria are plants that don't live submersed for an entire year (or even longer). They only life submersed for a few weeks till months and this is not their preferred state. They love being emersed where they can use all the CO2 they want. Usually they are algae covered when submersed for longer than a few weeks and just trying to survive. Totally different than the situation in our aquaria, where we want it to stay submersed for years and without algae. That is where CO2 comes in. The more CO2 a plant needs, the less time it spends submersed in nature. Only true aquatic plants (the ones that are unable to survive emersed) don't really need CO2, because they make it themselves from carbonates. This does not mean they look better without CO2, the opposite is true. They grow faster and more healthy with the addition of CO2.

About the nutrients, we don't supply them in nature too (in fact we do, but this is another story). But nature can't be compared with our tanks here neither. Plants receive nutrients from decaying plant matter, which in our aquariums is removed as much as possible. Nitrogen and phosphorous can be supplied by fish(food) but these foods don't contain enough trace elements (iron, magnesium etc.) So these need to be supplied at least. When more light is used, more nutrients are used and feeding your fish won't supply enough NO3 and PO4, so this is why we add these as well. If you still want to add more food, lots of organics are released and we get the same situation like in nature again -> algae.

Most important note: our aquarium is no nature! Nature is covered in algae, dead plant matter and nutrients are supplied constantly by the stream of water with nutrients in it, where everything depletes in our aquarium, unless you leave all plant matter in your tank (even after trimming, you need to leave the plant matter in your tank or you'll exporting nutrients) and this is not a good practice!



Ras said:


> this was my basic logic for it as well, that there arent co2 systems in nature so why should I buy one.


On a side note: actually there are, there are tons of bacteria that produce CO2 in the sediment and in the water as a result of decaying stuff. It is just something we can't really replicate in our aquaria


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