# Feed the tank



## whimsical mike (Jul 10, 2014)

Have now read Diana's book and it is a lot to take in, have to reread it a few times i think.
She refers to feeding the tank and have seen the same comment here a few times but what does it mean. Is there a guideline that suggest how much fish food to put in daily. I am close to putting the soil, plants and water into the tank and will start feeding it after it settles down. Won't put fish in until it seems to be settled a bit but was going to start the feeding before i do just to see how it reacts.
It is 60G and will be quite heavily planted to about 80% of the bottom, left a clear space at the front to be able to see the fishies better.

Mike


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## Skizhx (Oct 12, 2010)

It wont hurt to put food in without fish, but I would argue that it's a bit pointless. Or at least you wont see a measurable effect.

After you feed your fish a couple times you should start getting an idea of how much they'll eat. Start with a very small pinch and work from there.

If you have 'pest' snails in the tank and they'd established large numbers you can pretty much feed however much you want. They're pretty good at getting anything the fish miss.


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## jrIL (Apr 23, 2005)

I think the OP is asking about feeding the tank during the fishless cycle. I think. If so I think its easier to use ammonia, IMO. If your not talking cycle then I would agree, not much point in feeding.


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## Skizhx (Oct 12, 2010)

Ah, I was thinking more along the lines of letting things decompose for the nutrients.

In regards to cycling, every soil's different but out of the 4-5 soil brands I've used they all cycled the tank on their own without any assistance. Did so in pretty quick time, too. So my advise is still that it wouldn't hurt, but I don't personally feel there's much point.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Given that Mike mentions Walstad's book, he is probably referring to her recommendation to "feed the fish generously" to provide nutrients to the plants.

If so Mike, you don't need to feed the tank before fish are added--the fresh soil will take care of that. After the tank is mature and stable in a few months, then you can start giving extra food. I agree with Skizhx, this is safer and more effective if you have a healthy population of detritivores; snails, shrimp, and bottom feeding fish.


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## jrIL (Apr 23, 2005)

Michael said:


> Given that Mike mentions Walstad's book, he is probably referring to her recommendation to "feed the fish generously" to provide nutrients to the plants.
> 
> If so Mike, you don't need to feed the tank before fish are added--the fresh soil will take care of that. After the tank is mature and stable in a few months, then you can start giving extra food. I agree with Skizhx, this is safer and more effective if you have a healthy population of detritivores; snails, shrimp, and bottom feeding fish.


Could indeed be. I was remembering where she talks about adding fish food to feed the tank cycling along before adding fish. So OP mike, over to you.


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## whimsical mike (Jul 10, 2014)

Yes I was referring to Diana's statements.
Didn't like the idea of putting fish in until i see what the tank does but i suppose there will be enough to decompose at the start so no food for a while.
Assume then that all is stable and fish are in then the food needs to feed the fish and the tank. I did see a statement about increasing the food until you see some uneaten in the morning then reduce it a little, not sure where i read that though. 
My logic suggests that i put enough food in for the tank and fish then enough bottom critters to process the extra. If i had an idea of the amount of food then i could adjust the bottom dwellers to process the extra. Most likely i am over thinking it all, I'm good at that.

Mike


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## jrIL (Apr 23, 2005)

whimsical mike said:


> Yes I was referring to Diana's statements.
> Didn't like the idea of putting fish in until i see what the tank does but i suppose there will be enough to decompose at the start so no food for a while.
> Assume then that all is stable and fish are in then the food needs to feed the fish and the tank. I did see a statement about increasing the food until you see some uneaten in the morning then reduce it a little, not sure where i read that though.
> My logic suggests that i put enough food in for the tank and fish then enough bottom critters to process the extra. If i had an idea of the amount of food then i could adjust the bottom dwellers to process the extra. Most likely i am over thinking it all, I'm good at that.
> ...


Right, but which one. About feeding the plants or tank cycle. I will guess plants cause she talks about that more.


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## Skizhx (Oct 12, 2010)

Keep in mind that a large part of feeding the plants through fish food involves the fish digesting and breaking the food down (pooping) so it can be decomposed further into nutrient forms that are more accessible to the plants. Decomposition without an intermediate consumer probably isn't the best indication for how things will run with fish. But as people have pointed out, it's early enough that the soil can keep things going on its own for a bit.

When you do have fish I would assume the fishes' stomachs are about the size of their eye (they aren't, but if you feel completely lost and need a safe arbitrary starting point it's a start). Once you get used to their behaviour you'll probably feel more comfortable estimating reasonable proportions.

Pest snail populations (and various other 'pests' like planaria, etc) seem to be controlled in some part by food availability, so in a way many of your detritovores will adjust to your feeding habits, whatever they are (within reason of course).

I would estimate ~20% margin of error for how much I'm actually feeding on any given day, with shrimp and snails in the tanks, so there's room for error. In practice I'm just taking a pinch that "feels about right".


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## atc84 (May 18, 2013)

Snails overpopulate when you are overfeeding. If you see a large increase in snails over time, then you probably are overfeeding. If you begin feeding just enough for the fish, then their wont be any left over (besides poop) for the snails, causing them to die, or not reproduce.


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## whimsical mike (Jul 10, 2014)

Yes i interpret Diana to mean supply enough fish food to supply all the nutrients that the plants need. The tank is then stocked with enough fish to become the first line of processing the food into plant food and then some bottom dwellers to mop up the remnants and till the soil. Thus never having to add other ferts. If too much food is left on the bottom add some more fish until a balance is reached.
To achieve this then i need an idea as to the amount of fish food that needs to be processed into plant food for a heavily planted 60G tank. I would think the initial plant load will be lower as i probably won't get huge plants and the full load won't be there till the plants develop to the point of me pruning them.
Maybe i ask an unanswerable question and if so just tell me to bugger off. 

Mike


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

This is one of those things that are very difficult to quantify because there are so many variables. You will get a feel for it as you take care of the tank during the first few months. Start off feeding as you would in a non-planted tank, then increase slowly.


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