# Mulm problem: Filter to blame?



## DJKronik57 (Apr 17, 2006)

Here's my problem:

My 29 gallon tank is a bit overstocked and there is so much debris and mulm that it is choking plants, encouraging algae, and getting caught up in my moss. In fact, no ground cover I've put in besides hair grass has been able to survive.

It's currently got an Eheim 2213 on it (116gph) but this barely moves the water at all and makes just a very gentle current. When selecting a filter, I went on the notion that higher flow is not always better, since the bacteria in the filter needs contact time with the water to remove nitrites and other harmful chemicals.

Now I'm starting to wonder which is more important, and how to fix my mulm problem. Is this caused by a lack of filtration or just a consequence of having some dirty fish? I'm guessing there isn't enough current in the tank, and so all debris and mulm just sinks to the bottom instead of getting sucked up by the filter. Do I get a filter with a higher flow rate? Just get a power head?

I don't think a powerhead alone would fix it, since the Eheim has barely enough power to suck anything up. Any help would be appreciated!


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## Cassie (May 27, 2006)

what kind of fish do you have, and how many of each? What are your water peramaters, especially nitrate?


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## abnormalsanon (Jun 6, 2006)

DJKronik, I'm in the same boat. My 30gal tank is probably overstocked (5 cories, 5 otos, 5 cherry barbs, 8 neons) and I also have the 2213. I thought the 2213 would be more than enough for my 30gal, but I was wrong. I have lots of mulm lying around. I'd be interested to hear what folks have to say about this. I'm adding a small pump to move things around a bit, but I'm not sure this will really help all that much.


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## sarahbobarah (Sep 5, 2005)

How often do you clean your filter media? Sometimes, I open up my fluval after I notice a reduction in flow and everything is clogged with mulm. A swish in tank water from a water change helps immensely. 

Also, do you check your hoses for clogs?


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

The 2213 probably is a bit undersized for a 29g tank, but not by much. It's plenty big enough for filtration, but a little more circulation would help. Honestly though, the fish load and/or overfeeding is probalby the bigger issue. Call it fish collectoritis. I've been here before and you really don't do yourself any favors by overstocking. You can't really do anything to offset it either, except for getting rid of some of the fish.

Your trouble with groundcover type plants might have more to do with not enough light than too much mulm. Can you share what your stock list is? Light? Ferts?


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## joephys (May 9, 2006)

abnormalsanon, your tank isn't over stocked. 

Most mulm isn't going to get sucked into the filter. It will settle on the bottom. A high flow rate isn't bad for a biofilter. I don't know where you heard that from, but it is actually the opposit. More flow means that more waste and oxygen get to the bacteria. Do you use a gravel vac or something to suck the mulm out of the bottom of the tank at all? Even in a planted tank, getting the surface should still be done once in a while. Over stocking a tank is never good.


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## DJKronik57 (Apr 17, 2006)

Fish in the tank:

3 Juvenile Bosemani Rainbows
2 Gouramis
1 Pleco
^ This is the majority of the mulm right there. Messy fish.
4 Ottos
3 Juvenile Clown Loaches
1 Blue Ram
3 Pygmy Cories

Light isn't an issue, I've got a coralife 130W fixture plus 52W extra in CF screw in, but the 130W alone should be enough. I do clean out the Eheim more often than the recommended 3 months, but it's never very dirty. All hoses are checked for clogs. I only feed them once a day, just enough so that everyone gets something (it's all gone in 30-40 seconds). Nitrates are always between 20 and 30ppm with fert dosing. I dose all ferts regularly using the EI method.

I seem to remember the flow rate thing came from Eheim, justifying their low flow rates. Somewhere it was mentioned how filters are often too high powered, and don't allow time for the bacteria to come into contact with the water long enough for them to grab what they need out of it. It makes sense, after a certain point you're just moving the water through too quickly for bacteria achieve their maximum benefit. Maybe it's hogwash, but I do remember reading it somewhere reputable.

Since the Eheim is never very dirty, I always figured it just wasn't doing its job. It has plenty in the way of filtration power, but I agree that it just doesn't have the circulation for the tank. If it did, it would be able to suck a lot more out of the water, especially the heavier mulm. What about a 2217?


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

I use a 2215 on a 46g bowfront and it does a decent job. Maybe it's a bit underpowered for a heavily planted tank. It would be plenty for a 29g. On my 180g tank I have a closed loop, supplemented by two 2217's. They actually seem to kick up a pretty good current, but I upsized the return hoses to match the intake size and I don't use a spraybar. Just my experience.....


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

_It's plenty big enough for filtration, but a little more circulation would help. Honestly though, the fish load and/or overfeeding is probalby the bigger issue. Call it fish collectoritis. _
I strongly agree with guiaic boy on this. You have a classic case of too much fish waste in your tank. Your tank has alot of huge waste producers and you are right the pleco is the number one offender. Your filter is not the issue. Having a high fish load is a double-edge sword because not only do they create more waste, but you end up feeding more, which of cause ends up adding to the organics problem. Think about fish waste. The filter intake tube is not going to capture all of it, most of it just settles. So if there is too much of it for the plants to handle it sits in your tank as mulm. IMO your tank is overstocked because of the type of fish you have not the number.

I always think you could tell by simply picking up a plant or rock in the tank. If it creates a hugh mess there is probably too much fish and/or your feeding to much. I personally don't think you should feed more than a pinch or so one time a day, six days a week. For most of us with planted tanks there is always something for the fish to pick on.


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## DJKronik57 (Apr 17, 2006)

So no amount of filtration will solve this? I'd much rather spend money than rip up my tank and risk another green water outbreak to try to catch the stupid pleco! That and I have nowhere to put it. It was the very first fish I bought before I knew much about the right fish for a planted tank.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

Others might disagree but I don't think a bigger filter is going to help your situation. The mulm is probably being stirred up by the loaches and the pleco. In a way that's good becuase some of it will make it into the filter, but in a way it's bad because it's mixing with the anything in the water column to probably create algae problems. If you add a powerhead or more flow it will do the same thing. How planted is your tank? More plants will probably help since they'll utilize more of the mulm. "Larger" fish like plecos and loaches really don't mix well IMO with well planted tanks. Especially in a tany your size. It's simply too much waste. The best thing to probably do is more gravel washes/water changes, add more plants and if possible give some fish their pink slips. BTW - I used to have a BN pleco in a 46g and I too had mulm and gunk on the plants and I was using an oversized filter. I have since upgraded to a 72g tank and am using the same filter, but I don't have any big waste producers in my tank and I do not have the same problems. Most people have dark colored substrated, but if your pleco was in for example a sand-bottomed tank you would not believe the waste they produce. They should really call them "BMs" not "BNs"


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Clown loaches when full-grown - 6" or bigger
Bosemani rainbows when full-grown - 3"+
Pleco when full-grown - 6"
Gouramies when full grown (depends on species) - 4"

When full-grown, the above fish would be a good-size bioload for a 75g tank. I think things will only get worse as your fish grow. You can do more frequent gravel vac's, but the root problem will likely remain as long as you have the current residents in your tank.


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## titan97 (Feb 14, 2005)

I'm in the same boat man. I've got a 35gal hex with a 2213 on it and I get all sorts of mulm on my plants. I ended up "fixing" it by connecting my Magnum 350 (without the filter) to the tank and adding more circulation. It was hazy or cloudy for a day or two, but the 2213 eventually picked up the sediment. Basically, all I did was add a powerhead. I could have just purchased one for $15-25, but I had the 350 on hand. 
Also, I found that I needed to change the filter floss in the 2213 almost monthly in order to maintain good flow through the filter.

-Dustin


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## JERP (Feb 4, 2003)

I dont know if you have a spray bar or what, but you try a smaller filter output opening. That will create a stronger current, stirring things up so the filter can suck it up. If you have a spray bar, you can cut pieces of UGF uplift tube to cover some of the holes on the spray bar.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Jerp,

A smaller orifice will actually increase resistance, decrease flow, and increase the jet velocity. If more flow or more current is desired, a bigger tube / opening would help.


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## JERP (Feb 4, 2003)

guaiac_boy,
Increase jet velocity is exactly what I had in mind. I'm suggesting a stronger jet to stir things up more. If the mulm stays in the water column longer, more of it will get sucked into the filter.

Perhaps my teminology is wrong. I associate water velocity with water current, even if the total volumetric flow is somewhat reduced due to drag. I don't much care about a 100% efficient filter, as long as it does the job of keeping my tank clean. The tank's the thing...


I do agree that he should reconsider his chioce in fish. They only reason it's working now it that all his fish are juveniles.


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## sarahbobarah (Sep 5, 2005)

House of cards, what is a BM???


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## lailastar (Aug 28, 2006)

I have a 55g with 2 280 emperors and that honestly wasn't enough, so I added two powerheads with sponge filters. For the sponge- a big dollar store fat cheapy was used with an appropriatly sized hole so that there is no way for debris to clog the impeller. TO hide the powerhead and to create a buffer for the fast moving current- so my fish can play in it instead of being hurt by it- I made a wall of holey pieces of flat driftwood. You would NOT BELIEVE how much crap those sponges are picking up off the bottom. I have a huge pleco and waaaaaaaaay too many swordtails and right now my tank is like superclean. Also- I use a bag of purigen in one 280 filter and that totally makes the water shiny and polished. Key to this working: big ugly cheap sponges that you just run under a tap once a week to clean...also offset the powerheads- one higher and one lower so that the whole tank get treated with the increased flow (which helps the breakdown) and the increased suction. Another plus- the clown loaches for some odd reason love to sit on the powerhead. GO Figure.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

sarahbobarah said:


> House of cards, what is a BM???


Let's see - how to put this delicately....... sigh, there really isn't any way.....

When you're admitted to the hospital, they won't let you go home until you've had a BM. If you have fish like plecos, their BM's really start to make a mess of the tank. Or, if you have evil parents like me, your initials are BM, which doesn't really work out so well when you work with nurses every day. They think it's SOOOOOOO funny - never seems to get old. Sigh again.

Any other mods that see this should probably just delete it. I probably will later


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## sarahbobarah (Sep 5, 2005)

Ohhhhhhh.... now I get it! Thanks for the clarification. 

I know for reef tanks, some of my friends just take a powerhead once a week and blast all their liverock. The detritus gets stirred up and sucked up by the filter, or by their water changing hose. 
You can also just use a powerhead with a rotating attachment - again used mostly in reef setups - that will move the water in otherwise dead spots.


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## DJKronik57 (Apr 17, 2006)

That may work in a reef tank, but if you did that in a planted tank, you'd probably trigger a green water outbreak. Stirring up all that mulm causes a huge imbalance in your tank in terms of ammonia and nitrite. However, doing it in a more controlled fasion is my intent. I've purchased an Eheim 2217 and a UniMax Pro 250 to see if they help the situation. Both have higher flow rates, and the UniMax has a UV sterilizer built in just in case I stir it up too much. Will let you guys know if the increased flow rate has any effect!

Oh, and the loaches are VERY slow growing. They've grown maybe 1/4 of an inch since I got them almost 8 months ago. So I figure I've got some time to get a bigger tank, at least for them. They're my favorites, so I definitely wouldn't "give them the pink slip." The pleco, I wish I could give away, and the Gouramis are just so damned colorful and pretty. We'll see...


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## sarahbobarah (Sep 5, 2005)

Oh yeah! I hadn't thought about a green water outbreak. Thanks for pointing that out.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

guaiac_boy said:


> Let's see - how to put this delicately....... sigh, there really isn't any way.....
> 
> When you're admitted to the hospital, they won't let you go home until you've had a BM. If you have fish like plecos, their BM's really start to make a mess of the tank. Or, if you have evil parents like me, your initials are BM, which doesn't really work out so well when you work with nurses every day. They think it's SOOOOOOO funny - never seems to get old. Sigh again.
> 
> Any other mods that see this should probably just delete it. I probably will later


Guiaiac boy,
Thanks for the assist. I'm sure your parents are very nice people!


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## DJKronik57 (Apr 17, 2006)

Here are the culprits and the tank:










You can see more in my journal: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/27772-high-rise-aquascape-3-tank-rack.html


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## JERP (Feb 4, 2003)

I'd take another look at your circulation. you have a large opening aimed almost straight at your inlet. Try moving things around a bit. like aiming the outlet across the bak of the tank and lowering your input tube. You can also try adding a spout as I've already mentioned. 

Remove the mulm that is present before you change anything,


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## DJKronik57 (Apr 17, 2006)

Well, I upgraded to a 2217 and sure enough, it's been roughly a week and a half and the mulm is disappearing. It's almost all gone. The water circulation has improved dramatically and I think that's what really cleared up the mulm. There just wasn't enough flow through the filter to suck up waste before. Yay!


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

> My 29 gallon tank is a bit overstocked and there is so much debris and mulm that it is choking plants, encouraging algae, and getting caught up in my moss. In fact, no ground cover I've put in besides hair grass has been able to survive.


 Interesting thread. Good read. 
Question. Just so I can get this all straight in my head. 
(I have a pretty good idea to the answer to my question, but I will ask it anyway to verify.)

How would the answers to this question be different if it were posted in the El Naturale forum?

Also, I saw your posted photo and tried to maximize it but it came up basically the same size. 
From what I saw the heavy plant growth in the top half of the tank seemed to block out the light reaching the bottom of the tank. Is that how the tank really is, or is that just how it LOOKED in that one photo?

What is TDS?


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

The only thing I have to add is that you _have_ to vacuum the excess mulm up on a regular basis. With a heavily planted tank, you don't have to suck deep into the substrate, but you do have to get the excess off the floor. 
Contrary to popular belief, your plants can't use up all of the physical mulm that is produced by a large fish load (even though they will suck up a good share of the nitrates) and you're going to wind up with lots of TDS and a less than perfect environment in your tank.

Even though I have high quality filters, I never expect them to replace regular tank maintenance. It only makes them work twice as hard, so you have to do more filter maintenance, and it shortens the life of the filter.


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