# Otocinclus Keep Dying



## John N.

It's probably because I keep buying these otos from Petsmart and Petco (petsmart is cheaper)....however my other fish from these locations are thriving...but most of my otos keep dying on me. 

In combination from these stores, I've purchase about 15 ottos over the past month, probably half have died in under two weeks.

I just bought some more and did a full acclimation drip process for them to prevent this problem, and hopefully that will work out... 

Anyone else have these fish die on you? I thought these guys were suppose to be hardy fellas...

-John N.


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## JaySilverman

They are very hardy once they are accustomed to your tank. Usually the weak ones die within the first month. After that the rest should live long and happy lives. Usually with store bought otos I get a death rate of about 60%.


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## Jubs

I had the same problem from a descent LFS but they were wild caught they just didn't snap out of it and I was losing them all the time till I finally gave up on them till this past weekend I picked up a couple and they are doing well I think I will get a couple more in the next couple of days. Keep your eyes on the poo if its white instead of dark you might have a problem with internal parasites that is a problem with most of the wild fish is they get internal problems. 

I acclimate all my fish that way usually letting them drip for a minimum of half an hour about 1 drop per second. I use an airline with a airflow control valve on one end to control the flow... its easier for me than trying to tie a knot and get the right amount flowing. I have been using this method for years and have noticed alot better success with not stressing the fish. Oh and I use a gallon milk jug cut about half way up the handle and the handle will hold the valve perfect usually so you can go do other things without having to worry about the hose popping out .

HTH,
Justin


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## Krisybabe9

I have had Ottos die on me too...
I read in more than one book to "pick up two or three to help with algae." However, more recently I have read that they only feel secure in large groups and stress really bad and die off easily without many of their own kind. If I get them again, I will get atleast six. How many do those of you that can keep them alive have?


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## Bert H

> I read in more than one book to "pick up two or three to help with algae." However, more recently I have read that they only feel secure in large groups and stress really bad and die off easily without many of their own kind. If I get them again, I will get atleast six. How many do those of you that can keep them alive have?


 On my two 50's I have 2 ottos in each of them. The older tank has had them for about a year and a half, the newer tank has had them for about 5 months. They don't appear stressed. I never see them eating any of the food I feed my fish, but all their bellies are full looking, so I figure they're doing their job. :thumbsup:


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## hoppycalif

I purchased 5 ottos about three months ago, and all but one died. They all lasted about a week, then one died. Since then it is just an occasional death. This duplicates my last experience with them several years ago, different tank, different conditions. The final survivor last time lived a couple of years.


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## JanS

It's very common for Oto's to die when you first get them, no matter how good your store is.

I've heard that they have to actually sedate them by dumping something in the water where they are collected, and many never get over it. Poor things.
If on the rare occasion you could get tank raised ones, I bet it would be a different story.


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## jude_uc

I had lots of problems with oto's, going though about 8 of them until I got the bunch which are doing great. Here are my suggestions: go to the store on the day they recieve them. I think that there isn't too much algae in those tanks and they continually decline the longer they stay in the store. Never buy an oto that looks pale. When they are healthy, they are dark colored with a black stripe down the side. When they aren't feeling very good, they are very pale. The pale ones almost always die within a week. Finally, I think that oto's are often sensitive to the CO2 and NO3 levels that we usually keep in our tanks at the beginning. I would turn down everything a notch for a week or so when buying new oto's. They seem to appreciate that a lot.

-Adam


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## 247Plants

wow I must have really good luck because out of the six i have gotten i still have........6 in my tank


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## BryceM

I have one that might die any minute now. I saw him sucking on the side of a congo tetra today. The congo didn't exactly seem to like it either. I never thought otos would do this. Horrible chinese algae eaters yes, but never an oto. Anyone else ever see this?


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## 247Plants

wow no....ive seen my otos swimming with fry and fish practically touching and never once have my otos been anything but gentle....


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## bigstick120

guaiac_boy said:


> I have one that might die any minute now. I saw him sucking on the side of a congo tetra today. The congo didn't exactly seem to like it either. I never thought otos would do this. Horrible chinese algae eaters yes, but never an oto. Anyone else ever see this?


I have heard of them doing it to discus, mine attack my arm as soon as it hits the water!!! First time it really freaked me out


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## erijnal

if your otto is sucking on other fish, it's a good sign that it is starving. i try to leave a hikari algae wafer in the tank every other day, and my ottos always suck on it and break it apart.

check your ottos for full stomachs, if it is bulging out slightly then your otto is probably in good shape. if the stomach looks flat and there seems to be a dimple in the intestine area, get to the store right away and buy a stick of cucumber, slice some thin pieces, boil it, and weigh it down by stabbing it with a piece of gravel. i like to scrape at the cucumber slice with a fork to give my ottos an easier time sucking on the cucumber

as for the dying issue, supposedly cyanide is introduced into the otto's natural habitat in order to slow it down for the catchers. this inevitably means that many ottos arrive at your local store very weak, so die offs are to be expected.

ottos do fine on their own. also, if you're keeping more than one otto and your tank doesn't seem to have any soft algae, the cucumbers and algae wafers are a must

hope this helps


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## Laith

erijnal said:


> ...supposedly cyanide is introduced into the otto's natural habitat in order to slow it down for the catchers. ...


Are all ottos caught in the wild? I was under the impression that they had been bred successfully...


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## Gumby

guaiac_boy said:


> I have one that might die any minute now. I saw him sucking on the side of a congo tetra today. The congo didn't exactly seem to like it either. I never thought otos would do this. Horrible chinese algae eaters yes, but never an oto. Anyone else ever see this?


I've seen it on discus and angelfish quite frequently =\. Most discus keepers I know don't like otos for this reason.


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## Bombay

erijnal said:


> as for the dying issue, supposedly cyanide is introduced into the otto's natural habitat in order to slow it down for the catchers. this inevitably means that many ottos arrive at your local store very weak, so die offs are to be expected.


Yep, when I first started buying ottos, I had a 1 or 2 die within the first week. I always took great pains to acclimate them too. I started doing research and found that cyanide could be the cause. I've have to check one of my altases for the breeding question, but my understanding is that most of them are still wild caught.


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## JanS

erijnal said:


> if your otto is sucking on other fish, it's a good sign that it is starving. i try to leave a hikari algae wafer in the tank every other day, and my ottos always suck on it and break it apart.
> 
> check your ottos for full stomachs, if it is bulging out slightly then your otto is probably in good shape.


Very good point. The little guys need more food than many people realize. They also really like zucchini.

Laith, there are a few farm raised Oto's, but I believe a good share of them are wild. If I remember right www.liveaquaria.com has some that aren't wild.


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## Bombay

JanS said:


> Laith, there are a few farm raised Oto's, but I believe a good share of them are wild. If I remember right www.liveaquaria.com has some that aren't wild.


Usually, drsfostersmith indicates in the "origin" description whether they are farm raised or not. In this case, they do not, so we have to assume they are wild caught.

Oto's

Article regarding cyanide, oto loss, etc...


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## JanS

Bombay, one of my friends contacted them directly to ask about their origin since it wasn't specified, and they said they were not wild. That was a while ago, so maybe things have changed though.


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## Bombay

That may be the case since many of their other fish do indicate when they are 'farmed'. You're right, best way to find out is to call if in doubt. Plus, although I still use them, I've had several experiences lately where you call them up and ask them a question, you are given one answer...call back or chat with them again and the answer changes. And these are black and white answers that I am talking about, not questions where opinions could vary. Example, do you carry the 6700k bulb that fits the 24" Aqualight?  That is just my recent experience with them.


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## JanS

Bombay said:


> Plus, although I still use them, I've had several experiences lately where you call them up and ask them a question, you are given one answer...call back or chat with them again and the answer changes. And these are black and white answers that I am talking about, not questions where opinions could vary. Example, do you carry the 6700k bulb that fits the 24" Aqualight?  That is just my recent experience with them.


I've had some great experiences when calling the Live Aquaria customer service, and the staff seems very knowledgeable. They are a completely different staff than the "dry goods" customer service, so maybe that's the difference.


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## Bombay

JanS said:


> I've had some great experiences when calling the Live Aquaria customer service, and the staff seems very knowledgeable. They are a completely different staff than the "dry goods" customer service, so maybe that's the difference.


Yes, these are the dry goods customer service that I am referring to. It seems to be something i noticed recently...but not in the past. Oh well, thanks for sharing.


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## rrguymon

I am about 3 for 8 on otts. 3 alive. The rest died after about a week. I bought from two differrant stores. So I do not think it is the stores. I think they are stressed during shipping.

The three I have now are about 8 months old and fat and happy.

Rick.


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## GekkoGeck0

JanS said:


> Very good point. The little guys need more food than many people realize. They also really like zucchini.


I feed mine zucchini, cucumber, an occasional bit of nori seaweed, and romaine lettuce. I freeze all the fresh vegetables first. Otos seem to like their veggies slightly mushy. Blanching is another option.


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## John N.

Well almost a week now, so maybe I'm home free with this set of otos. So that makes it 4/4 this round. 
*
Grand Scheme Total approx: 9/20* survivors

-John N.


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## Bombay

Did you get these from a different source?


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## John N.

Bombay said:


> Did you get these from a different source?


The 4/4 were from petsmart..

But the other 15-16 were from petco, petsmart, local fish stores. A couple died and survived from each location.

-John N.


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## erijnal

by the way, i suggested leaving an algae wafer in the tank every other day, since ottos don't have a large stomach capacity, but BE SURE TO REMOVE the wafer once it looks like it's full on disintegrating. if you have a big population of shrimp that will clean it up for you, then that's fine, but if you don't have anything like that, your scavenger fish will end up overfeeding on the tiny broken up particles and will ultimately die. 

but yes, blanched cucumbers and zucchini are always good ideas; they might even be better than the algae wafers because they will not provide as easy a meal for your scavenger fish

good to hear about your survivors though john. a note to all otto keepers: if you happen to see any hemorrhaging on one of your ottos in the stomach and head area, they will most likely die. the hemorrhaging usually doesn't show up in the first couple weeks, to my knowledge. i remember one of mine started bleeding about a month and a half after perfect health =/.


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## cousin it2

I have found that from some sources ottos have a high mortality rate, one fish shop I use charges double the price for ottos compared to most other shops in the area but to date I have not lost any that I have purchased from there.
It does seem possible to breed them in captivity , I have seen several tiny ottos in one of my planted tanks reciently that I know I did not put in there, I only get this occaisionaly, maybe at some point I will have to set a tank up specifically for them and see if how difficult it really is to get a reasonable spawnig out of them.
Congrats on the recient purchase, they are such inoffensive fish that is does not seem right that they suffer as badly as they do in captivity, I have some in with Altumn angels and with discus and so long as they have full stomachs they do not bother them at all, it is usually more the other way around as the discus are curious about what the ottos are eating and go over to investigate.


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## mahamotorworks

After Reading this I dont Feel so bad. I bought 6 Ottos last night and this Morn 5 are dead and the 6th dosent look to good. I will be off to use the 14 day warranty that they come with. Now I am 0/6 with Ottos.

MAHA


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## DLOBREAKS

hmm... this is a bit dishearting since i just bought 4 on sunday day 2 from petsmart, 2 from a good lfs) and i have lost one already. .. they did a great job on my brown algae though!!


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## mahamotorworks

Ya I went and had the 6 replaced under the warranty. I have lost 4/6 over night the other 2 are doing great. I will be getting some more. I want a group of 6 like they should be in. I guess I will keep trying. 2/12 Otto Count.

MAHA


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## BryceM

My recent experience with otos gave me a lot of insight. I bought 12 from a large, national chain LFS that will remain nameless. Why I took a chance on them is beyond me. I'm lucky the whole tank isn't dead.

I lost one or two a day for about a week until there were only 2 left.

Then, I ordered 2 dozen Oto niger from Mark at anubiasdesign.com. It's been almost two months now, and to the best of my knowledge, they're all still alive.

The condition of the fish on arrival makes all the difference in the world. No matter what anyone says, virtually all (maybe 100%) of otos sold are wild-caught. The majority are treated badly and most are starving when they finally get sold. Mine arrived plump, healthy, and active and are still doing well. Maybe Oto 'niger' are inherently hardier, but I doubt it.


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## erijnal

Just want to add that the Niger Oto also seems to eat a wider variety of algae than the more generic otos


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## Tonka

Otos breed in my tank. Don't ask me how it happens. New ones just show up.


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## jaybird002

*Overmaintenance bad for otos?*

I think I killed off several otos with too much tank maintenance: gravel vacuums, even changing part of the gravel with the fish in the tank. The gunk that was stirred up turned the water cloudy, until the filter removed it. The otos were listless for a few weeks. Some died; some recovered, but after serveral episodes of that I think they were weakened to the point that they succumbed to disease or infection. Do you think it was exposure to pollutants or bacteria in the gravel? Some of the otos had been in the tank for months, so it wasn't a "new fish" problem.

I now have two otos in a 29 gallon planted tank, and I do much less tank maintenance. The otos are very retiring, but seem well fed. They usually hide in the anubias nana. The two Siamese algae eaters are much bigger and more active; maybe they scare the otos. But only the SAE's eat beard and brush algae that used to cover the anubias.

I thought of getting more otos, but is it worth the risk of bringing disease into the tank? Also, I have 2 4-inch SAE's, 1 3-inch angelfish, 3 glowlite tetras, and 2 cory cats. Is there any more room in the tank?


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## ShortFin

I got all my ottos either from PetSmart or PetCo. When shopping for Ottos, I don't buy them right away. I usually come back a week later to see if they are still doing well, then I would buy them. So far, I only have one die on me within the first two weeks.


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## ShortFin

duplicate....


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## Kelley

Shortfin, that is great advice!


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## Moo

I've read that otos like to eat the surface scum off the top of the water. This can also contain harmful particles that come from your house.
I've seen the otos in our 75 gallon on more than one occasion hanging upside eating the stuff.
It has a name. But apparently it a common source of food. And common cause of death.


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## Jeff232

Today I bought my first oto's ever. My favorite LFS had 4 of them left of the bunch they had for the past couple weeks, one was dying so i bought the other 3 to go into my 3 week old 100 gallon with the sides turning green. Man are they hard to find in such a big planted tank, it took me 15 minutes just to locate them on the back glass. They are all dropping a steady stream of little greenish black oto poo .

The only problem so far is i had to put a bunch of polyester batting around my canister intake because one of them got stuck to it after just a few minutes in the tank, Im glad i found him before he died. The xp3 generates a current stronger than my otos can swim evidently.


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## snowy

Hello, if you are having trouble keeping otos then I strongly urge you to read this article about otos on Planet Catfish, it explains what their natural diet is and why they often do so poorly in captivity. Hopefully this will help those who have been having trouble with them, best of luck in future 

Planet Catfish :: Shane's World :: Catfishology :: Otocinclus - ''Little Monkeys'' in the planted aquarium


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## BryceM

Nice article reference Snowy, thanks.


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## Ankit

Just for the record... I haven't ever had any Oto's die on me yet, have probably had 5-6 over the past many years. It might just be pure luck, but I don't know. I've generally only been putting one in at a time and after I can see that there is algae on the glass for them, otherwise I won't. I've probably gotten all of them from Petsmart.


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## gibmaker

I also have had troubles with ottos, I put them in my tank, they live for a few months and then die every time, I give up. I know they are eating because there bellies look fat, the water is high quality, although it is a discus tank kept at about 84 degrees farenheit, dont know if that matters much?


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## Squawkbert

Now I read this...

I just picked up 3 otos to replace one of several Cardinal Tetras I've had trouble keeping alive. The link is a nice read.


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## ed seeley

All the otos I've had really seem to benefit from a couple of weeks in a quarantine tank on their own with lots of food so they can get nicely fed on dried green seaweed, algae wafers and cucumber. After they recover a bit of weight they lives for ages. Don't have any now, but my last ones were ancient when they shuffled off their mortal coils!


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## bijoon

I bought 10, lost one. They are fine and dont stress out as much as my harlequins when co2 spikes.


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## AndyT.

erijnal said:


> by the way, i suggested leaving an algae wafer in the tank every other day, since ottos don't have a large stomach capacity, but BE SURE TO REMOVE the wafer once it looks like it's full on disintegrating. if you have a big population of shrimp that will clean it up for you, then that's fine, but if you don't have anything like that, your scavenger fish will end up overfeeding on the tiny broken up particles and will ultimately die.
> =/.


This is off topic but what makes you say that? I have never had a problem with it (Hikari, Wardley and Petsmart's Top Fin Wafers)?


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## erijnal

whoops, forgot to mention that my "scavenger" fish were dwarf cories, and i only had 5 of them in the tank at the time

i still believe there's a legitimate risk of scavenger fish overfeeding though


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