# Problems with high PH, high KH, and low GH.



## SKSuser (Mar 20, 2006)

Hello.
Decided to put this in the "New to Planted Aquariums" area... because I'm new to this kind of problem. My water is pretty straight forward so I've never had to worry about it.

However,
I'm setting up a tank for my friends. We measured their water out of the tank after it sat overnight. Their PH is 7.6 or higher. I don't have the high range test kit, so I don't know exactly. The KH is 40ppm. The GH is 20ppm.

They're running the water through some sort of softener. However, I measured some water out of the outside spigot where it isn't filtered. The PH is the same with at least 7.6 or higher. The KH is 20, and the GH is 100.

What should we do with this tank. They aren't particularly interested in having cichlids. :|


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## mikenas102 (Feb 8, 2006)

I don't know much about softeners since I've never had to use one so I won't pretend like I know the exact answer to this. However, if the unfiltered water is over 7.6 ph and the KH is only 20ppm I would have to assume the phosphate levels in the water are through the roof. Are you sure your ph test kit is good? Something doesn't add up right with those numbers. Also, the unfiltered water is already relatively soft at only 100ppm GH. I don't understand why they have a softener on the water supply.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

A water softener replaces calcium and magnesium ions with sodium ions, unless you use potassium chloride instead of sodium chloride in it. All of that extra sodium isn't good for the plants or fish. Obviously, the easy fix is to use potassium chloride in the softener. Another fix is to use the water unsoftened, and usually the cold water doesn't go through the softener.


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## SKSuser (Mar 20, 2006)

Their only untreated water in the house is a hose bib outside. I got another PH test kit. It reads high as well for the treated and untreated water. Needless to say, I'm confused by the water specs as well. The don't seem to add up, but the numbers don't lie. The plants also seem to have started suffering in the day and a half they've been in there.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

It isn't hard to switch your softener to KCl instead of NaCl. I would certainly give that a try. The cost is a little higher, but not much.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

CO2 will lower your pH if you are adding CO2. 

Your KH of 20 ppm and a GH of 100 ppm are excellent!!

Keeping sodium out of the aquarium water source, like hoppycalif mentioned is very important!

Use the water source that doesn't go through the water softener for the aquarium and you will have a nice aquarium.

My KH is 15 to 30 ppm and I don't adjust it except on one aquarium where I added too much peat moss as a substrate base. Its KH is near O. I add enough Alkaline Buffer to bring it up to ~ 3 dKH.

A GH of 100 ppm is 5.6 dGH which should be fine. Be sure to watch the plants for any signs of magnesium deficiencies, though.


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## CherylH (Jul 22, 2004)

Not all water softeners use sodium or potassium. The Culligan "Super S" filter, which recharges with bleach, doesn't use either one. It's primary purpose seems to be to remove iron and sulphur. It also strips the gh out of the water. This water is ok to use if something is used to build the gh back up.


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## nilihanth (May 25, 2008)

Hi, I'm the owner of the tank that SKSuser is talking about. I'm fine with using the unsoftened water that has the GH of 100 and KH of 20 but what can I or should I do about the high PH? The PH is high whether I use softened or unsoftened.

As far as plants go, I have Swords, Moneywort, Anubius, Sunset Hygrophyla, ludwigia. I don't want to kill them with any PH lowering side-effects but it looks like i'm killing some of them by doing nothing as well  I also just put in a medium-sized Malaysian drift-wood.

Summary: I don't mind hard or soft water, high or low KH or GH. I just want my PH at acceptable levels and a solution to whatever my problem is without having large fluctuations when I do a water change that will end up killing my fish (I don't have any fish yet, btw)

NOTE: My water softner is basically a NaCL transfer. It has a salt brine tank that it flushes the beads with. I don't think I can switch to KCl, but even if I can I don't want to.


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## SKSuser (Mar 20, 2006)

Hey Nilihanth.
Well, now you all will get the straight scoop since he's here. I'll let him take over explaining whats up, only with the addition that he also has some Dwarf Sag which is doing fine, and that his swords are amazon sword.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

The pH is not so high as to require action, in my opinion. It is probably a result of your water company adding phosphates to the water to raise the pH and prevent copper piping from eroding. Maybe they over did it a bit. Adding CO2 is an easy way to lower the pH, even if it is DIY CO2, which is cheap to set up.

You do need to add NPK fertilizing plus trace elements, unless you have low light - like around 1.5 watts per gallon. Even then, weekly additions of fertilizers might help the plants. CO2 would definitely help them, or Excel, if you can't use CO2. Most plant problems are due to inadequate light or fertilizing.


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## nilihanth (May 25, 2008)

Ok, an update is in order:

I changed out 80% of my water for the hard outside water. New readings are as follows:
GH = 80
KH = 30
PH = 7.6
Nitrites = 0
Nitrates = 10 (a little over 10)
Ammonia = between 2 and 4 ppm (looks closer to 4)

From what little I know about the Nitrogen cycle, I realize that my ammonia levels are way too high, correct? This is also partially because I added ammonia (5 CC's of a solution of 10% ammonia) in myself because I was using the ammonia test incorrectly  So I can do yet another big water change if I need to and that should help I hope. But nitrates exist in my outside water already. That seems like a good thing for me, no?

If I need to make a new thread on my cycling of the tank, I will.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

If you follow the rule - never, ever add ammonia to a planted tank, you will never regret it.

And, an equally good rule - never, ever trust a test kit if you haven't calibrated it with a solution or solutions having known amounts of what you are testing for in them.

I suggest doing another 50+% water change, followed by still another.

Then, I suggest picking a fertilizing method - EI, PPS Pro, Pfertz, etc., reading up on it and following it.


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## nilihanth (May 25, 2008)

Thanks for the advice, Hoppy. I'll see what happens after a couple 50% changes.


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