# Starting a new 110g NPT



## ucdchan (May 9, 2009)

Hi everyone,

I'm in the process of starting a new planted tank. It's a 110G 6ft long tank.
Here's what I have plans for it.

Use EarthGro TopSoil for bottom layer (~1inch)
Use Turface Grey for topping (~1.5inch)
Add crushed oyster shells in soil layer. (And Potash if i can find them).

I have dwarf sag, chain swords, frogbits, java moss, and hornwort currently. I might get some amazon swords.

I plan to add the following fish:
50 cardinal tetras
20 otos
15 rasbora
12 white cloud (Maybe not if overcrowded)
12 cherry barbs (Maybe not if overcrowded)
4-6 discus (Not sure about this yet, maybe in the future if the tank is stable).
And cherry shrimp/ghost shrimps.

My lighting is a kinda low. I have 4x32w T8 (6500k + 5000k).

I think my GH is 7 and KH is 10, and the PH is around 7.4-7.6.
I have driftwoods I plan to add in there.

There'll be no sunlight due to house layout. I've read/scan through walstad's book. And I've also read about the mineralized thread. Should I mineralize the soil or just let it sit on the tank for a day or two to dry? Any comment on the stock and plants?


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## Tominizer (May 13, 2009)

Sounds like you're in the same boat as me. I'm builting my first NPT in a 120 gallon and there's no real natural lighting available either........... I'm using 4x 40 watt T12 bulbs in the 5500 and 6500 range.....................I've installed everything and no I'm waiting for it to do it's thing. But there is no fish load in my tank right now though................ and I've never played with aquatic plants before. :icon_hang Although I think I may pop my fish in this weekend.


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## ucdchan (May 9, 2009)

Fish stand is done (except the doors), and my light just need to be painted.










I just screen the Earthgro top soil last night, it seems very "rich".
I added Turface on the tank border and will top it off later.









I was planning to add oyster shells, but my water's ph is already at 7.6. Should I even bother adding them? I plan to keep tetras and maybe discus, so I don't want to raise it too high. Should I add root tabs instead?

Also, the soil layer is around 1.5" to 2" right now. I figure if i compress it, it'll be 1". But i'm leaving it fluffy right now to air it out a bit more. What's the 1" measurement you guys use? Is that when the soil is compressed?

Tominizer, I would be interested to check out your tank. Do you have pictures?


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## BenBOMB (Apr 25, 2009)

Never have seen a NPT this big. I'll be looking forward to see this tank grow.

I think root tabs would be fine to add.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Since your lighting is sub-optimal (about 1 watt/gal of ordinary fluorescent light for a very large and deep tank), I would not add any root fertilizers. With a GH of 7 there's no need to add oyster shells (water has enough calcium and magnesium). 

You do not want to flood a tank with nutrients when the lighting is this modest. The soil and all those fish you plan to add should provide more than enough nutrients for plants. Make sure that you have a 14 hr daylength to compensate for the low light.

My philosophy is that if you can afford to buy such a large tank, you can afford to provide adequate lighting (in view of the fact you have no window light).


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## ucdchan (May 9, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback Diana. Do you think i should remove some soil? I currently have 1.5 to 2inches of soil. It's not compressed at all thought. They're lightly sprinkled on the tank, so they're fluffy.


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## melauriga (Mar 20, 2009)

I am new to NPTs but I have read Ms. Walstad's book many, many times now! Your plant selection sounds good for low light, but you will probably want to add some plants with large root systems and some fast growing stems. Crypts do well in low light, and stems such as hygrophila difformis and hygrophila sunset.


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## ucdchan (May 9, 2009)

Wow, I really like the looks of hygrophila difformis. I'll try to get some.


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## Sophie (Feb 12, 2006)

Anubias work well for me in low light, also mosses and Bacopa australis.


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## Alex123 (Jul 3, 2008)

You should stick around 1" of soil uncompressed. From my experience, the substrate do not compress the soil noticeably especially when you have 1" of substrate. Your light is low, and my guess is that your tank height is 30 inches which is high when you have 1 wpg. Wish you had window light to compensate . The concern is growth under this light condition and the focus is avoid algae bloom when you have low light. So don't want too much nutrients should be a big focus.


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## ucdchan (May 9, 2009)

The tank is actually pretty short. It's a long 6 ft tank. Measurements are 72x18x20.

20" height, so with the added soil+gravel, it'll be 17" form the top.
I tried out the lights last night and it seems pretty bright. But I didn't have any water in there so it might be different later. I can probably squeeze another light fixture in there and bring it to 6x32, which will be around 1.75wpg.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

ucdchan said:


> The tank is actually pretty short. It's a long 6 ft tank. Measurements are 72x18x20.
> 
> 20" height, so with the added soil+gravel, it'll be 17" form the top.
> I tried out the lights last night and it seems pretty bright. But I didn't have any water in there so it might be different later. I can probably squeeze another light fixture in there and bring it to 6x32, which will be around 1.75wpg.


I'd definitely add the extra lights, get a few Amazon Swordplants, and add dry soil to a depth of no more than 1 inch.

Notes on Lighting: I've now gradually retrofitted many of my old strip lights with CFL (Compact Fluorescent Lights). CFLs are brighter, more energy efficient, and last longer than T12s. The AH Supply Company has inexpensive retrofit kits that include top-notch reflectors. It was a challenging, all-day project to install the new lights and reflectors, but I like the results.


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## Alex123 (Jul 3, 2008)

72x18x20 is a nice size. Where did you get this tank? It's not common and have never seen one. Did a google and didn't find it either. Your dimension is about 112 gallons. Seems custom made.


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## ucdchan (May 9, 2009)

It's a truvu 125 long. I'm not sure why it's call 125, but it's actually 112 gallons.

I moved the driftwoods in and the plants. I probably need to buy more plants.










I found the strange dragonfly-like creature in my old fish tank. Anyone know what it is?










Water seems to be good after 1 day.. so I move in more ghost shrimps and red cherry shrimps.
Any idea how long I should wait before adding fish? I recall some people adding it right away.

My gf didn't like the look of the hanging lights, so I'll need to build legs for it. The lights are being temporarily held up by two black blocks.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

The tank looks great, but you definitely could use more plants. You've got plenty room to play with, so maybe a couple large swords and a few medium-size swords (Red-Rubin, martii, Kompact, are not "supposed" to get as big as most swords).

Your nymph looks like it could be a dragon-fly nymph, but I'm not certain. How long was it in your other tank? And what fish did you have? (These nymphs are notorious for eating small fish. )

I took the liberty of deleting your "double-post". 

-Dave


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## nkambae (Nov 6, 2007)

Hullo, your critter looks more like a damsel fly larva to me. They too are quite predatory but can't take down prey as large as a dragon fly larva can. Both will eat anything they can catch and are capable of taking prey larger than themselves. The distinguishing characteristic between the two is the rear end. Damsel fly larvae have three feathery gills protruding from their abdomen and swim with a sinuous, undulating motion. Whereas dragon fly larvae have hollow projections through which they project jets of water to propel themselves in the water column. Both make hearty meals for just about any fish too large to be consumed themselves.

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/arthropoda/uniramia/odonatoida.html

Good luck.

stu


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## ucdchan (May 9, 2009)

Ahhh crap. Thanks for the info guys. I regret tossing it into my new tank now. I can't even find it anymore. The cherry shrimps are carrying eggs now too, darn.

As for the tank, it's been a few days now since I added water. I have done zero water change, only added about 20gallon worth of water from my old tank and rest is from the faucet. The ph is at 7.6 still. I'll probably wait till early next week to add fish.


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## Valley (Feb 28, 2007)

I'm with Diana on the light situation. You will be MUCH happier with more light and with CFL's it's not too difficult and surprisingly inexpensive. 

We went to lowes and got a bathroom vanity fixture rated to hold 6 bulbs at 60 watts a piece on sale for $5!! You can get all the reflector material at lowes too. Obviously we aren't using 60 watt bulbs.... But a pair of those fixtures with 20-30 watt bulbs could def. become your new best friend. It takes a little electrical wiring and ingenuity but we had it all together and usable in less than 24 hour and for less than $30. Good luck!


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## ucdchan (May 9, 2009)

I'm a little confused on CFL vs. T8 lights.
The T8 lights I have give off 2800 lumen for 32w
The CFL seems to give off 1600 lumen for 26w

This means the T8 is 87.5 lumen/w
and CFL is 61.54 lumen/w

I understand CFL is brighter as it is a smaller light verse a long tube. But wouldn't it be more efficient to go with T8 since it's gives off more lumen/w?

Here's the CFL is used for this example: http://www.amazon.com/Lighting-8539...ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1243445647&sr=8-1


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## ucdchan (May 9, 2009)

I'm seeing alot of bubbles still trap in the substrate. I've poke the substrate a few times, but there's still quite a bit of bubbles. Any idea if I need to worry about them? Do I need to buy some MTS?


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Lumens is just the light that your eye perceives, so don't go by that. Plants use light that our eyes don't use as much of. Our eyes perceive mostly greens and yellows while plants use mostly reds and blues. So, if two bulbs are the same wattage and one gives more lumens, that one with more lumens is actually putting out less plant-usable light (sort-of) . 

There's a sticky thread in the ligthing forum called Lighting Spectrum (or something like that). You'll find that very helpful.

Focus more on light spectrum. If a spectral graph is not available, go with Kelvin (between 5000K and 10000K ).


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## musrusticus (Aug 21, 2008)

This may also prove helpful:

http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=149


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## ucdchan (May 9, 2009)

Ah I see... That's really hard to tell what bulb to get then without the spectrum.

I think i'll overdrive one of the fixture with a 4x ballast (2x32w to drive each tube). And I'll put a 40w AquaGlo light in the overdrive fixture. I'll add a pc fan for cooling. Anyone see any problem with this config?

reference for overdriving T8 bulbs: http://www.geocities.com/teeley2/overdrv1.html

AquaGlo spectrum:


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## ucdchan (May 9, 2009)

Just had my first 60% water change as there was an ammonia spike. I guess I'll have to wait a bit before putting in the fish. 


Day 3:
ammonia: 0.25ppm
Nitrite: 1.0ppm
Nitrate: 5.0ppm
ph 7.6


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## ucdchan (May 9, 2009)

I overdrive one of the T8 light fixture, so it's alot brighter now. I had a 13 hr photo period (128w over 110g) before and forgot to switch it back. So after just 1 day with the bright light, the wistera and chain sword's leaf turn white/yellow ish. I roll back the photo period to 10 hours now, hopefully it'll heal.

I tested the water on tuesday 6/2/09, and it was 0,1,5. Then tested it again last night 6/4/09, and it's 0,0,0 now. I've got a bunch of plants and some fish from tfdfish.com, and it has arrived at a friend's house now... Some of the Oto and shrimp were DOA. 


Oh, one interesting note on the lighting. With 4x 32w bulbs, the energy usage were actually 101watt from the outlet. When I overdrive one of the fixture with a 4lamp ballast, the energy usage went up to 137watt. I read the increase on light brightness is only 1.7x instead of 2x. Maybe that's why the energy usage only went up this little? I have photos in my camera that captures the difference in brightness on the two light side by side. I'll update it later when I have time.

The new ballast does get alot hotter than the other light fixture. So I had to install a PC Fan on the canopy. It's cool to the touch now.


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## ucdchan (May 9, 2009)

Here's a big update on the tank.

Overdriving the light was a bad idea... The light socket melted a little due to heat (or maybe cus we were moving the lights around with the power on.). Anyways, the light was running at overdrive power for about 4 days no problem... so it could've been the movement that cause the problem. But I reverted it back just in case.









Upgrading the top light fixture with a 4 lamp ballast to drive 2 lamps.









New Ballast









Noticeable difference between the two... camera only capture a little difference.









TOOO BRIGHT... actually, it's not really that bright. Not sure why the camera seems to capture this brightness.









Added a drop checker for fun... I think i put too much solution in there.









Added Otos









Added Blyxa japonica... not sure if this will grow in my tank.. but I got them cheap for $1 for a bunch.









Rot. red.. (forgot how to spell it).









Amazon sword as suggested by Diana









Cherry shrimp carrying eggs

























Added 50 cardinal tetras

Water parameters seems to be good so far. 0ppm for all three.
I think i do have some soil problems though. When I poke the soil, the bubble smells like rotten eggs. Mainly near the driftwood area. I think Diana said it's the driftwood suffocating the soil. Anyone have any MTS for sale cheap? I could use some helpers.

I'll continue to monitor this tank and keep you guys updated so we can see how well NPT does long term. Oh yah, I'm planning to add more light to bump this back to 2wpg since the overdrive failed.

Cheers!


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## clearleaf (Oct 4, 2008)

Much better plant load! Those h. difformis are huge! Looks like this tank will do just fine, especially with 2wpg and the plants and tetra-load you have in there.

If you didn't bleach-dip or otherwise sanitize the plants aside from just rinsing them in water, I'll bet you one solid united states nickel that in a week or two you'll start seeing pond snails and quite likely MTS as well.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Your tank looks really promising with all the new plants, fish, lighting, and even a cherry shrimp. Nice going!


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## ucdchan (May 9, 2009)

Doh! Lost two glo-fish due to Ammonia Spike.

Here's what happened:
Water reading was perfect: 0ppm for all three

But the water is brownish color (tannin from driftwoods). So i decided to do a 70% water change.
When the water level got lower, the driftwood tip over to the glass, and lifted up some soil (I buried it to the bottom). I think this is when the Ammonia spike happen. I think two glofish came to this side of the tank to explore and hit the concentrated ammonia. I added the water and tried to hold the driftwood in place after wedging it back into the soil/gravel. I was adding de-chlorine/clorite/ammonia liquid as I fill the tank. After the water level hits 90% of the tank, my ammonia always-on indicator turn green (0.25ppm), and I saw two glofish struggling and swimming upside down. The rest was okay. I then tested and confirm the ammonia with another testkit, and it shows 0.25-0.5ppm of ammonia. All the other reading was okay. This was after adding about 60 gallons of fresh water. So I think alot of ammonia was released initially, which is probably what killed the fish.


I think if I were to have to do this NPT again, I would wash and dry the soil (minerialize) before putting it. Sure we can do it without, but it's so much safer to clean it first.

Also, I probably will use narrow sticks driftwood instead of Malaysian. This way it doesn't cover that much of the gravel surface. I tried to plant water sprite around the base of the driftwood, hoping some root will go under it. But I cannot tell if that's happening.

And finally, I'll boil spend the time to boil the driftwood before putting it in. So at least it'll leak less tannin into the water.


But overall, the tank seems to be doing okay. So of the med light lights are not doing well, but the others are good. The water is alot clearer now, and I plan to add 4 GBR tonight. I'll have to watch out when I disturb the soil too much as it seems to release alot of ammonia into the water.


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## Tanan (Mar 11, 2009)

Great looking tank mate
Just love those cardinals,they are so expensive here buying a quality pair is like buying a pair of baby discuss.


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## Jesse2504 (Jun 3, 2009)

I had the same problem with my soil, it was very gaseous and clouded the tank.


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## BenBOMB (Apr 25, 2009)

Your tank is looking great, a lot better then my NPT haha. I'm sure when I have a lot of plants in like you do it will look better


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## ucdchan (May 9, 2009)

It's almost 4 month since the tank was set up. I've added 7 discus, some furcata rainbow, and threadfin rainbow. They seems to be doing well. The GBR keeps breeding.. but none survive so far since I have so many little fish. I did saw some flys swimming around at one point, but they were gone after two days.

I had to move some plants around since they were growing big... and it created a dust storm in the tank everytime. The leaves would get dirty... That's one huge drawback for natural tank. Anyways, here are some photos.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Very nice! I really like your DW. You can always make sure it's sitting on rock that goes down to the glass. If the rocks are small they won't show and it will stop anaerobic areas.


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## ucdchan (May 9, 2009)

Here's another update. It's been 9 or 10 months since the tank was set up. I stopped changing water for a month or two now since the driftwood tanning doesn't seem to be much of a problem anymore. The plants are growing pretty big, and I had to take out a bunch of crypts and misc plants. The chain grass is pretty crowded now.. not sure how to thin them out since they're all connected. Here are some pictures after taking out a bunch of plants.


























































Discus is still doing well.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE!!! love it! nice job!


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## Hoodie (Oct 6, 2009)

Hi! looks really good! this proves that high lightning and npt go well together!! :cheer2::cheer2:


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Gorgeous tank! And Discus thriving... 

When I see Crypts and an Amazon Swordplant growing well like this, I know that your tank will succeed long-term. 

You can occasionally trim the Amazon Swordplant-- just cut off a few of the outer and older leaves. For the Crypts, you can cut off all the above-ground growth of plants invading new territory; this will help keep them from taking over the tank. 

A Quick Filter attachment to a submerged AquaClear powerhead will easily remove water turbidity from soil disturbances. 

However, whatever you're doing, it's working. Frankly, I don't think you need my advice anymore. Excellent job!


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## Vadimshevchuk (Jul 5, 2009)

Very nice tank! I don't know why ur wife doesnt life lights hanging from ceiling. Great job so far =D Man i need to read tht book by Diana Walstad.


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

nice!


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## bmedeiros678 (Mar 26, 2007)

Great tank! More updates nedded!


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## ucdchan (May 9, 2009)

There's not much to update actually since it's super low maintenance. 
Here's my estimate on maintenance:
- Top off around 1" of water every 1 or 1.5 weeks
- Scrub the glass every 2-3 months (brown algae)
- Pull out some overgrown plants (long grass seem to spread to front) every 3-4 months. 
- Remove floater plants every 2-3 weeks (this is easy)
- Water change 3-6 months (depends on how brown the water is from driftwood tannin.)

I actually did a water change recently. Here are some videos:


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## Oonagh (May 8, 2006)

These videos are so much fun! Thanks for the virtual tour. Absolutely beautiful.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Very nice tank indeed.


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## lake_tuna (Mar 18, 2010)

Hey ucdchan, is that "dwarf sag" in the fore ground (the grass plant you mention needing trimming because it spreads a lot)? They're huge. How come mines are like 1-2" high at most??


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

I love seeing large NPT's; this one looks great by the way. I've been hunting down posts about larger NPT set ups because, IF our house sells and we end up moving, I'll be rescaping my 125. It's also NPT, but now that I know what each plant species grows like in my water conditions I am getting scaping ideas for the future. I doubt I will ever go with discus, but I definitely enjoyed cheecking this tank out; it's very inspiring, and the foreground gives me some good ideas to think about.

Later,


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## ucdchan (May 9, 2009)

Date: 6/6/2011

Haven't update in awhile... been busy with life.
Anyways, I think it's been over 2 years since the tank was set up. I just got a new DSLR so I figure I do another update. I think I'm doing water changes around 3 to 6 months, mostly because of the tanning. But everything does spark up after water change as expected.

Below are some photos. Note that this tank is 110 gallon and it's only using 128 watt of T8 lights (4x32w). I've did add two additional 32w spiral bulbs on the ends, but I almost never turn them on. Plants are already growing fast enough. So it's about 1.1wpg. Light is on 4 hours in the morning, and 4 hours at night. Blue moonlight LED is always on (~4watt I think)

Here's the current stock:
~15 cardinal tetras (Ich / heat treatment wipe out a bunch about 1 yr ago)
~2 otos (Can't believe they lasted this long)
20-30 cherry barbs
2-3 threadfin Rainbow
6 discus
4 Angel fish (Coworker had some babies and gave them to me.. now almost full adult size)
1 Bumble bee goby (Friend didn't want it anymore)
1 German Blue Ram (2 disappeared about 1 yr ago?)
20-30 Endlers (all males expect 1 female to keep them bright and happy)
2 CPO (Awesome Dwarf Orange Crayfish, didn't attack my plants and great contrast to plants)
30+ Cherry shrimps (Somehow they're surviving and reproducing)
40+ Ghost Shrimps (Same as above)
~5 Cardinal Shrimps
1000+ MTS (I need to control them better)
~10 Nerite Snails

Problems:
- Amazon Sword plant in the middle is overgrowing. The photo is after trimming around 40% of its leaves. Thinking about remove it completely.. anyone know if this will screw up the tank?
- Too much MTS.. lucky they don't come out when the light is on. I've been removing some once awhile.
- Green algae on some areas of the acrylic around every 2-3 months. Pretty easy to scrub off.
- Light hood is ugly... want to replace it but seems all 6 feet retail lights are high wattage. I like the low watt shop lights since electricity is expensive in CA.


































































































Larger full tank photo:
http://dealhandler.com/aqua/IMG_3477_large.jpg


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## Peterjay (Mar 4, 2011)

Good job! I'm currently setting up a 90 gallon NPT, and I find your work inspiring. An absolutely gorgeous tank!


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## brenmuk (Oct 7, 2008)

Great tank and great journal. I'm enjoying the pictures so please keep them coming!

With the Amazon sword you can prune it back to the base of the stems so that you remove most of the leaves and it will take quite a while to grow back. If you want to remove it completely I would not pull it out of the substrate as sword plants have quite extensive roots and can drag alot of the soil into the water column. New leaves form at the growing point at the centre of the base of the sword if you cut out this bit the sword will not grow back and you can leave the roots in the soil.

There are quite a few ways to control snails, my favourite is to add a few assassin snails and they will keep the numbers under control and have attractive shells of their own.


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

awesome tank.


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