# CO2 Reactors: Efficiancy, Noise and your forewarnings. And the nominees are..



## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

Hey guys,
For a long while now I've been using the Hydor CO2 Diffuser.
Running it with a flow rate of 3-4 bubbles a second and *even 2bps*, it still emits a fair amount of small-tiny bubbles into the tank.

The PH is at 7.2 as a daily 4 bps is being flowed in the diffuser. *And though I'm using tap water with KH XX and GH XX I'm having a hard time believing the KH buffer is that big to cause the prevention of PH from dropping beneath 7.2!*

Other Cons are it being noisy and the frequent cleanups necessary in order to keep it functioning as best as possible (as diffusion method keeps sucking in small dirt and leafs).

So, I've searched eBay and found a few products with a few principals to lead me to the next "weapon of choice" to be selected:

1.	Lowest noise levels possible.
2.	Highest diffusion possible.
3. The least maintenance possible.

All products are found on eBay and are probably made in China..

Nominees are:

1. D-402








(The middle one "M")

This is a standard external reactor with bioballs.

2. This one uses a Ceramic stone first, then chops bubbles with the help of bioballs.









3. This one is a simple and basic thing - uses a prop motivated by the water inlet to chop the CO2









Also found a video on youtube showing it "on duty"





I'd love to hear some thoughts regarding any of these products: Noise, efficiency, money's worth etc.

Thank you!


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

Interested in the results here, too. I just ordered, from eBay, that top unit (the large). It's too big for my tank, but I intend to remove the middle section, so it's a Medium. 

Will be watching this space...


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## wearsbunnyslippers (Feb 18, 2008)

what about the up atomizer?


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## wi_blue (Apr 5, 2005)

Well I haven't used in-line reactors like that, though resently recieved a "CO2 Reactor 500" as a gift. I hooked it up to my DIY in place of the glass diffuser I had. 

1. Well, were the PH was fluctuating around 7.5, the tank is now at a constant 7.0. PLUS there.  

2. I makes a little noise from time to time (when it spits out excess CO2), but the diffuser I used made a constant air leaking noise. So PLUS there too.  

3. And that leaves cleaning... the diffuser I was cleaning do to snail eggs and the snails can't get in the reactor. Giant PLUS there!


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

wi_blue said:


> *Well I haven't used in-line reactors like that*, though resently recieved a "CO2 Reactor 500" as a gift. I hooked it up to my DIY in place of the glass diffuser I had.
> 
> 1. Well, were the PH was fluctuating around 7.5, the tank is now at a constant 7.0. PLUS there.
> 
> ...


Hey, by "in-line", what do you mean?

@ghengis, were you inspired by this thread?


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

EQUINOX said:


> @ghengis, were you inspired by this thread?


Lol, no. I actually ordered it mid-last week... I hadn't even considered the possibility of a noise factor, but now that the issue has been raised, I can see how the bio balls rattling around in the reactor might be rather noisey.

Still, I begged the other half to let me buy the thing, so I am stuck with it regardless, I guess! :|


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

ghengis said:


> Lol, no. I actually ordered it mid-last week... I hadn't even considered the possibility of a noise factor, but now that the issue has been raised, I can see how the bio balls rattling around in the reactor might be rather noisey.
> 
> Still, I begged the other half to let me buy the thing, so I am stuck with it regardless, I guess! :|


Don't be upset..
It's a cheap try and I have a good feeling about the performance.
Let up know how everything goes, including pictures!
Do you intend using it in or outside the tank?
Oh, and I'd be happy to know if it works well before you take apart some pieces of it.

P.S. the guy selling those on eBay told me it shouldn't be noisy if you use it with the appropriate flow-rate.


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## TAB (Feb 7, 2009)

you can build something like this for about $10-15


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

Tab, please do eleborate.
I am well aware of systems like this, how to built them and the low costs.

What kind of tank do you have and how high-tech is it?
Have you found dissolving to be near-perfect?
And how about the noise?

Thanks.


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## TAB (Feb 7, 2009)

Its basicly just a curd protype. I was planing on doing a DIY write up, started it... then I got married  I would love to get a design that works very well, then some what mass produce then on a CNC router.

Pretty close to 100% dissolving, zero noise. I did notice a drop in flow from my canister.

what you need to build it, is some 1/4" acrylic tubing, 1/2" acrylic( for my app anyways) some 2" acrylic tubing, 2 4" circles, handful of nylon scres, some 2" wide strips, untreated rubber gasket, some bio balls, airstone and a check valve.

tools can be as simple as a drill, drill bits, tap, sand paper, hypo "glue" applcator, and a plastic scoreing kife.

I bought every thing but the rubber gasket, and the nylon screws at my local tap plastics ( http://tapplastics.com/ I'm sure you have a local plastic supplyer) 
There are lots of good how toos on taps web site for how to glue acrylic.

The tank is a 45 gallon hex, with a 150 HQI, and 2x 20 watt NO. Its filtered by a old 203 fluval. my CO2 is coming form a large yeast generator, that puts out alot of CO2. Even with the back pressure of the cansister filter, I'm still puttting out 3-4 bubbles a second. If you shut off the filter it will bubble for about 3 mins.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

I have the small one in my garage tank for my Mini-L hooked up to an Eheim Ecco 2232.

First it is *not* water tight out of the box. I took it apart and put silicone sealant the both ends of the caps, cleaned off excess so it looks neat, reassembled, let it cure for 24 hrs and I was off. Second, yes it does make noise with the bioballs clanking around in there. But the cars done seem to care. Every now and then some big bubbles come thru, but otherwise it works well. At 1 bps, my drop checker is at ~30 ppm CO2. For $15 US at my LFS it was a bargain.

Downside is I am not sure how I will clean this thing when crud builds up inside since I sealed up the darn thing. Also I would make sure the filter you use with it has extra flow capacity to handle you tank, as some energy is dissipated turning the bioballs around.



EQUINOX said:


>


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

I know the bio balls are ther to create turbulence and help with dissolution...but are they completely necessary? Could one get by without them??


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## TAB (Feb 7, 2009)

I don't think so, they not only create turbulance, they also trap bubbles.


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

...figured as much. Well, I haven't even received my reactor, yet, and I am already planning mods to it. One of which will be to seal the thing up properly, the other might be to relocate the water inflow point to the top of the chamber, beside the CO2 inlet, so there is more of a churning effect, rather that a vortex. Might quieten things a little. Maybe. Hopefully. Fingers crossed...


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## wi_blue (Apr 5, 2005)

EQUINOX said:


> Hey, by "in-line", what do you mean?
> 
> @ghengis, were you inspired by this thread?


Sorry...a reactor that that you connect into the return line of a canister filter. I don't own a canister as yet.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

ghengis said:


> ...figured as much. Well, I haven't even received my reactor, yet, and I am already planning mods to it. One of which will be to seal the thing up properly, the other might be to relocate the water inflow point to the top of the chamber, beside the CO2 inlet, so there is more of a churning effect, rather that a vortex. Might quieten things a little. Maybe. Hopefully. Fingers crossed...


I have mine standing vertically, with the water flowing in the same end as the CO2 entry point underneath the reactor. The CO2 bubbles up and gets trapped in the bioballs as they float and turn with the current - eventually dissolving.


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

Got mine today. Woot! Am trying to decide whether I should run a long hose from the canister and have the reactor up closer to the tank. Or, mount the reactor right near the canister, with a long hose up to the tank... Do you think there would be a difference in water velocity between the two positions? I am thinking, having the reactor nearer the tank will maintain the velocity better...but I am not sure.


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

Hey,
I think the most important thing is to maintain the water/Co2 flow directions opposite.
Water - Downwards, Co2 coming from the bottom. TAB, ghengis, is that how you reactors are built?

BTW ghengis, I'd love to get some close up shots.

Is it really not water tight as Bunbuku mentioned?


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

The CO2 is injected at the top of the reactor. Although, I had always wondered why not the bottom...could always turn it upside down I suppose...I guess there is too much risk of the bubble being sucked straight toward the tank, without dissolving, in that configuration... As to water tightness, haven't set it up yet, but by the way it goes together, I don't think it would be very tight at all. Time will tell.

As to pics, are the ones already posted sufficient? You could save them to your drive and use zoom function... Just a thought.


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

I have mine set up! Woot!! And yes, it is everything _but_ watertight. A small smear of silicone fixed that problem, though. Works fantastically, very happy with that purchase. I reckon I will save CO2 refills in the long run, as well.

Will post pics later on


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

ghengis, thanks for keeping us updated.
Keep the info, personal impression and photos coming!


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

Righto folks. Got me pics sorted. Pretty self explanatory...pictures of it in situ and how I plumbed it up. Went for the second smallest length option (the smallest being to just connect the two end caps together and nix the balls entirely) and just the two balls, as I didn't want too much restriction on the filter motor. As I said before, it works a treat (once the water-looseness isssues are sorted!)...



















Even went to the chemist and picked up a syringe to knock up a bubble counter 










Syringe + check valve + ten minutes work = $2.50... God I love DIY!!


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

How would you describe the noise?
How would you estimate the dissolving? Close to 100%? Are there any small bubbles coming out of the filter?
Just to make sure - you unscrewed the reactor and reassembled it to a smaller size??


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

OK...

1. Zero. I think this might be because I am only running the two bio-balls, but looking at it how it operates, I reckon it'd be pretty quiet regardless.

2. I would have to say 100%. My filter has a puckered impeller, which I hope to change tomorrow, so that might help to judge more clearly. When the CO2 shut off last night, I had about a half inch of trapped gas at the top. When I awoke this morn, there was no gas at all, so there is clearly something to be said for allowing the chamber to fill and shutting the CO2 off earlier. Much greater efficiency.

3. No and Yes. It doesn't screw apart, as such, rather just fits together very tightly...just not "water" tightly, lol. And Yes, I reassembled it smaller. Look at the pics on the previous pages, you can see how the unit is modular.

HTH!!


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

That's mostly good news!
Does the PH fluctuate at all?
Do you use any kind of bracket to ensure the water entry and output tube aren't loose and allowing water spillage?

Was at a complex or subtle task to securing the reactor with silicon so it's water tight?


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

Haven't taken much in the way of pH readings as yet. But from what I have noticed, it seems pretty constant. Can't vouch for after lights out, though, because there is still gas in the chamber when I go to bed...though I guess I could look first thing in the morning. I am sweating on the new impeller arriving tomorrow as well, so I know everything is running smoothly.

As to brackets, there are none, atm. The elbows supplied are hard, rubberised plastic...that is to say that they are not at all flexible, but will budge just enough to fit, and so far stay, in place over the reactor in/out lets.

Silicone is always messy, but I just applied a small amount and smeared it around with my finger to a fairly even coating of about 1mm. Of course, most of it squeezed out when I forced the pieces together, but turps and a clean rag fixed any mess pretty easily. I was actually going to use PVC (plumbers) cement, but thought that A) it would show up too much and look ugly, and B) I would have more chance breaking the silicone seal, if I ever needed to take the thing apart.


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

Update. Got my impeller today, all is running smoothly. I gotta say, I drastically underestimated the flow of my filter... Am getting micro-bubbles in the tank, now, as they are just being rammed thru the reactor. There is still a large amount of trapped gas, but I am not getting the full 100% dissolution. I intend to try to open the unit on the weekend and add an extra tube module and an extra ball...though, I am undecided on that last bit just yet. Don't want to end up at the other extreme and have limited flow...

Will keep you posted


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

Don't you have a way to decrease the flow from the filter with a valve?



ghengis said:


> 2. I would have to say 100%. My filter has a puckered impeller, which I hope to change tomorrow, so that might help to judge more clearly. When the CO2 shut off last night, I had about a half inch of trapped gas at the top. When I awoke this morn, there was no gas at all, so there is clearly something to be said for allowing the chamber to fill and shutting the CO2 off earlier. Much greater efficiency
> 
> HTH!!


So.. 100% dissolve is not achieved with this one..?


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

If by "this one" you mean the small size version, with 600lph cranking thru it, then yes. 

I wouldn't write it off entirely, though...I think it will do alright in "medium" guise. It just needs to suspend the bubbles that little bit longer. 

Am just unsure of the effect on flow that the extra length will have...


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

Update: Added an extra tube length (so glad I went the silicone and not plumbers glue...), and an extra bio-ball, so now it is a medium. Much better. Minimal flow loss, if any, from what I can see and the gas is back to 100% dissolution.

Noice.


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

Good news!
They probably knew what they were doing when they made it that long.

Any noise now that with the extra bioball?


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

There is someting of a waterfall type sound, now, which I didn't have before, but that's not really a problem. If I stand with my ear near the reactor in the dead of night, I can hear the balls rattling quietly. But, again, no real drama...


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

Almost a week into working with this product. Any Up/Downsides you've came across?
Still No Tiny bubbles (=AFAIK, 100% dissolution).
BTW, do plants seem to look better with this addition?


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

I have had mine for over a month, so far so good. After trying the upside down vs right side up, I think the right side up configuration definitely works better. 

I did not use the black elbow pieces that came with the diffuser. Instead, I pushed the Ehiem tubing directly on the diffuser. While flipping the diffuser right side up the tubing worked itself a little loose and I got a minor leak. This was fixed by pushing the tubing back and securing with a cable tie. 

I'm starting to get brown slime in there but as long as it still works, what the heck!


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

Nice to hear good news.
I think that you could always pour Vinegar or hydrochloric acid in (while detached from the tank of course) and let it sit for a while, if you wish to clean the yak-stuff.
And you could always open up the silicone right?

What size did you buy?
Did you end up making some modifications like ghengis?
And what tank are you using it on?
Getting full dissolve and no noise like ghengis?


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

EQUINOX said:


> Nice to hear good news.
> I think that you could always pour Vinegar or hydrochloric acid in (while detached from the tank of course) and let it sit for a while, if you wish to clean the yak-stuff.
> And you could always open up the silicone right?
> 
> ...


The one that holds 3 bioballs. 
Apart from sealing it with silicone sealant, no other mods were made. 
I am using it on a mini-L with Ehiem Ecco 2232. The occassional large bubble passes thru but the otherwise CO2 seems to dissolves well.
As far as noise, its just some knocking due to the bioballs spinning around.


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

I have found one of the b-balls (of 3) keeps sinking to the bottom, for some reason. Am going to take it apart today and add an extra couple of balls, see if they can't hold each other up. Otherwise, no problems to mention...


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

OK, so I took it apart agian and added three more balls...I now have an issue where each ball is so laden with CO2 bubbles, they are barely turning, due to the friction createde. I will remove two of them again later on, once the CO2 has all dissolved into the tank. This is quite the learning curve...so many little details I hadn't thought of before. It is good to see so many bubbles attached to the balls, though...just means it's working as it should...


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

ghengis said:


> It is good to see so many bubbles attached to the balls, though...just means it's working as it should...


No bubles coming out of it and through the hoze into the tank?


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

I would have to say a few...but only a very, very few...barely noticeable.

OK, so I modded the reactor a little. Mentioned above that one of the balls kept falling to the bottom... Well, I decided to fix that. Figured on a type of "post" in the centre bottom of the reactor. Found an old silicone nozzle, filled with aquarium safe silicon, laying around. I trimmed it to length and stuck it in place. Seems to be doing well. There is no blockage to the water flow and all balls spin freely.

Pics:



























(obviosly held upside down in this shot...and yes, those are my canister hoses in the kitchen sink... She's given up growling me for that, lol!)

Just realised I have no action shots...sorry. I think you get the idea, anyway...


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

ghengis said:


> I would have to say a few...but only a very, very few...barely noticeable.
> 
> OK, so I modded the reactor a little. Mentioned above that one of the balls kept falling to the bottom... Well, I decided to fix that. Figured on a type of "post" in the centre bottom of the reactor. Found an old silicone nozzle, filled with aquarium safe silicon, laying around. I trimmed it to length and stuck it in place. Seems to be doing well. There is no blockage to the water flow and all balls spin freely.
> 
> ...


Wow!
Looks excellent, well done!
Are there any ramifications as far as flow rate and CO2 dissolve?
And did you prevent noise issues (assuming the ball stuck lower clanked when hitting the reactor's bottom)?


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

The ball stuck lower down was pretty well motionless and made no sound at all.

Not too sure about the rest just yet, as I have only had it back together a short while. My gas ran out yesterday too, so I am just monitoring things. Initial impressions though, are that flow has been restored to normal and I've (so far) not noticed any bubbles at all in the tank. 

I'm pretty happy with this thing, actually. For the money it cost (and the small mods/adjustments I've made), it works pretty damn well.


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## EQUINOX (Nov 19, 2008)

Well, give us a more elaborated review when you fill back the gas!


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