# Favorite Live Food?



## Burks (May 25, 2006)

I'm curious to see what everyone's (or your fish's) favorite live food is?

Microworms?

Grindals?

Blackworms?

Daphnia?

Etc.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

These aren't on your list, so here goes:
-crushed snails, esp MTS
-fresh shrimp cut up into tiny pieces


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## Nevermore (Mar 26, 2007)

Daphnia magna. All my fish love them. They seem to know when I'm heading over to the aquarium with daphnia, all their heads are pointed to the surface. I tried raising grindal worms but had a problem with fruit flies.


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## black_lung (Dec 19, 2006)

my dwarf puffers like bloodworms and adult brine shrimp the best, followed by mosquito larvae..brown puffer flips over fiddler crabs..and the threadfin rainbows enjoy daphina.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Burks, I don't have a favorite yet. I only know how to grow one so far. And so far all my fish love them. Once I get this mastered and down pat, I may try others.

I have just recently learned how to hatch Great Salt Lake and San Francisco Brand Brine Shrimp - Artemia Nauplii. These are NOT adult Brine Shrimp. These are freshly hatched (daily) Brine Shrimp Eggs which MUST be consumed within 12 hours of being hatched. (Otherwise the Nauplii consume their 'yolk sacks' and become nutritionally worthless). So long as they are freshly hatched they are very nutritious. So far all my fish like them very much. (I would recommend these only for small fish.)

I am curious from everyone else what they find the *EASIEST* to grow!


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Mine has to be Microworms and mainly because it is SO easy to grow, so that answers Jimbo's question too!

I feed BBS and Microworms to fry daily and treat my adult fish to any spare. The only other livefood I use is any mosquito larvae that grow in my water butts, and that only rarely!


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## stcyrwm (Apr 20, 2005)

What is the best reference for growing microworms?



ed seeley said:


> Mine has to be Microworms and mainly because it is SO easy to grow, so that answers Jimbo's question too!
> 
> I feed BBS and Microworms to fry daily and treat my adult fish to any spare. The only other livefood I use is any mosquito larvae that grow in my water butts, and that only rarely!


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

> What is the best reference for growing microworms?


 I have the same question. Something easy to print and easy to follow. That would be great. It was so hard learning how to get the hatching 'just' right.

Thanks.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

I don't know about an online reference, but I can tell you how I grow them.

I use transparent plastic Chinese food containers with snap on lids.
I get a slice of white bread (though brown works too) and dampen one side with tap water.
I put the damp side down in the container.
Then I add some worms from another culture, or starter culture, on top of the bread.
Leave the lid slightly ajar, or put a small hole in the lid, and put somewhere warm.
In three days the worms will start to climb the walls and can be scraped off and fed to the fish!
When the bread is gone I add another dampened slice of bread and when the culture starts to get too smelly I dump it and start again (BTW I sterilise the containers by microwaving them as they are microwave proof!).
I always keep four cultures going in case there are any problems and some seem to be more prolific than others.
Try to start them at different times so they will need replacing one at a time.

Hope that helps! Way easier than messing about with Oat mixtures IMO!


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Blackworms & brine... These are the only two I've ever feed because that is all I can find in my area. But my fish go crazy over both.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

Earthworm
Boiled shrimp
Neon's eggs


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Ed, how does this go over with the spouse? Does she freak out when she sees them or no? 

Or do she and the kids or grand kids think the microworms are cool?


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## EahInMass (Aug 29, 2006)

lol Jimbo...I have to admit I freaked out about the microworms at first as well....that smell leaves something to be desired! I am deffinately going to try Ed's recipe on them though (thanks for the post Ed). Normally, the only live food I have tried is blackworms...which is how my Sterbai's are sent into spawning. The whole tank absolutely love them! The microworms are a whole new world to me, and the live baby brine shrimp is next, as I have lots of mouths to feed!


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Jimbo205 said:


> Ed, how does this go over with the spouse? Does she freak out when she sees them or no?
> 
> Or do she and the kids or grand kids think the microworms are cool?


I am in the happy state of affairs of not having any of the above yet! A previous gf wasn't too happy about them but didn't kick up too much fuss (or maybe THAT was the reason she's an ex!)

Just had a horrid thought that I sound like a grandparent....
Maybe that comes from being a teacher! 

EahinMass, I Hope the recipe is as successul for you as it is for me!


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

I am turning into my father and I remember the biological 'experiments' or 'projects' my Dad had in the house. Now it is me. 

If you ever see the movie - Dances With Wolves - the opening scene - I swear that was my father the scientist. Very intense. Completely absorbed. Wonderful movie. 

I now give my wife major points for putting up with me and my hobby. But I think my kids enjoy it and maybe her too. I hope it helps them in science class. Like EahInMass, I think I will try the next live food when I have perfected this current one down pat. Thank you for the directions. 

Jimbo205


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## EahInMass (Aug 29, 2006)

I have tried Ed Seeley's microworm recipe and it is working absolutely great! Thanks so much, Ed!! Any tips on raising any other live food? Tried baby brine shrimp?? I am looking to learn!


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

EahInMass said:


> I have tried Ed Seeley's microworm recipe and it is working absolutely great! Thanks so much, Ed!! Any tips on raising any other live food? Tried baby brine shrimp?? I am looking to learn!


Glad to hear it's working well for you! It's certainly easier IMO than messing about with Oat mixtures! Just remember to have a number of cultures and start a new one every couple of weeks or so to keep production up! I also tend to add another slice on top of cultures whent he first has been completely turned to mush. Only when they get too smelly do they need replacing.

I cultures lots of BBS and have one of those conical hatchers, but to be honest any large jar will do, and glass would be easier to clean. You need to put an airline in, but don't use an airstone, just let the open end bubble vigourously.
All I do is add three teaspoons of salt to 1 litre (2 pints) warm tap water and aerate it until the salt dissolves then add 1.5 to 2 teaspoons of fresh brine shrimp eggs. Old eggs just don't hatch well so buy good eggs and when you get them keep them in the fridge to keep them fresh. To be honest this is the most important factor IME; I used to have rubbish hatches until I found this out.
After about 24 hours turn off the air and let it settle. You should see unhatched eggs settling to the bottom, a cloud of Artemia just above them and a layer of egg shells at the water's surface.
Syphon off the artemia leaving as many of the eggs and shells in the hatching container as you can. The unhatched eggs and shells can then be disposed of and the hatching container washed out and refilled ready to set up another hatch.
Strain the shrimp that you syphoned off through a shrimp net or sieve (sieves are easier IME) or, if you don't have either, you can use a handerkerchief over a container secured with an elastic band. If you're going to be hatching them reguarly I'd get a sieve.

I find Brine shrimp more of a hassle than Microworms, but the fish seem to prefer them and they really grow well on them. My adult fish, especially the killis and cardinal tetras go mad for them! Worth the hassle IMO.

It's probably not going to be a lot of use to you in the States, but I get my eggs from TA Aquaculture as they have large bags of Siberian eggs that are very cheap and producing great hatches for me. (http://www.ta-aquaculture.co.uk/Brine_Shrimp.htm#top) Tim also sells the sieves too, but shipping to the states would probably be too expensive! I'm sure you can find a good local supplier. Maybe someone here can say where they get theirs from?


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## EahInMass (Aug 29, 2006)

Thanks so much for the tips! So what you do is strain the little critters that are just below the surface of egg shells? I thought you would take out the empty shells and chuck them, then strain the critters. I am confused, lol. What is the reason for trying to capture the artemia under the floating egg shells and then syphoning the remaining mixture of unhatched eggs and broken shells? And what do you do with the remainder of the stuff after syphoning....shouldn't everything but the artemia be dumped down the drain?


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Didn't make that part too clear did I!!! 

I meant Syphon off the shrimp from the container and strain the shrimp, not the eggs and shells!
I find the shrimp usually collect just above the unhatched eggs near the bottom and sometimes I have to put them in another container and repeat the process if I suck up too many unhatched eggs.

Then the hatching container with the eggs and shells in can be chucked and the strained shrimp washed in tank water and fed to the fry. I wash them so I don't get too much salt in the fry tanks.

I hope that's a little clearer!!! 

I'll edit the original post to make it clearer too.


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## EahInMass (Aug 29, 2006)

No don't edit! It is probably just me having a blonde moment, lol. Thanks again.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

EahInMass said:


> No don't edit! It is probably just me having a blonde moment, lol. Thanks again.


Too late!
I used to have blond moments, but lost too much hair for that now!  :heh:


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## LindaC (Nov 7, 2005)

I have yet to feed any of my fish live food but I've just received a hatchery for BBS, so I am very excited to start hatching and feeding them to my fish or fry I should say, as yesterday when I was cleaning my 10 gallon tank, I picked up the cocount shell to clean it off and low and behold, underneath stuck to the roof where all these tiny pink apisto eggs! I put it back very quickly in hopes that the female won't eat them because I picked it up.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

> I find Brine shrimp more of a hassle than Microworms, but the fish seem to prefer them and they really grow well on them. My adult fish, especially the killis and cardinal tetras go mad for them! Worth the hassle IMO.


 Thank you Ed for letting me know that. I mean, after going to all that trouble learning how to do this...... I am glad to know that it is worth it.

If this is helpful at all, I found that the color difference (orange vs brown) hard to tell at first because I was hatching such a small amount.

But I have found that using soda bottles in either the .5 liter size or 2 liter size (cut in half) helpful. I so wish I had a digital camera to show step by step what I do. That would be so much fun!

Once you learn how to do it, it becomes easier (of course) and you develop a system. But one part I found very helpful is to let the soda bottle sit for a couple of minutes while I do other 'fish chores' and come back in about 5 minutes. The 'orange' artemia are easier to see when you use amounts in the 1 liter size batches than 1/2 liter batches. But either way, the 'stuff' at the bottom of the bottle - you want. The 'stuff' (egg shells) floating at the top of the water you don't. Siphon until the brown or black stuff gets near but not at the bottom.

They have Brine Shrimp Nets at the local fish stores pretty cheap.

The expensive part for me was buying a new water heater just for this. It was the dead of winter and I had a hard time justifying spending all that electricity in the basement. So I made a 'bathtub' out of a styrofoam box from a local fish store. I made a hole in the lid to put the air hose into.

That part is probably confusing without digital photos.

Either way, let us know what works for you.

I am taking a break for a couple of days from the Artemia Nauplii and see how my fish take to the freeze dried bloodworms (mosquito larvae??).

In a 2.5 Gallon will feeding artemia Nauplii encourage algae? Or is this just coincidence?

Jimbo205


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## EahInMass (Aug 29, 2006)

Ok, so I had hun set up a batch of baby brine to hatch. He did it his way (without the bleach), older eggs, and a two gallon aquarium with an airstone. The eggs have not hatched yet and it's been 24 hours, but he doesn't have a heater in the tank. I was very tempted to pick up a kit at our local pet store the other day where you just screw the 2 liter bottle into the base. It comes with the airline tubing and three packages of eggs. Anyone out there tried this yet? I am interested to see the syphoning...I have to say I am so confused because it sounds pretty easy, but so many people say it is a pain! Either way, my Sterbai fry seem to be content with their current diet of microworms and frozen baby brine. I have just recently added First Bites by Hikari and I have to say...these guys went nuts for it and it is really easy to syphon out of the tank during cleanup. Jimbo, your technique sounds really neat....it would be nice to see pictures! Borrow a camera, lol! Ed, just for laughs I'll have you know that I tricked my six year old nephew into smelling the microworm culture when he visited me yesterday after he thought it was melted ice cream! His reaction was priceless! I proceeded to show him how the surface was crawling with microworms, but he was too busy covering his nose with his shirt to really see just how good this culture has been coming along! To be honest with you- your recipe smells a hell of a lot better than the oatmeal mixtured one! And less messy! lol...now we'll see if my lil nephew is craving ice cream at his birthday party next week.....(thud!) too funny. I know....I know...I'm evil


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Ha ha! I'll have to try doing that to my class! They fall for stuff like that all the time! I even let a couple of crickets out in class once (they're food for the Gecko in my class!) - should have heard the shrieks!!!


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

I love your posts! That's what I should do to get my kids attention! Gross them out...... I like it. 

EahInMass, learning how to do it is such a pain in the rear. But when you get it down pat, it then becomes easier. The temperature and mixtures of baking soda, aquarium salt, epsom salt need to be just right in addition to the temperature. And oh yeah, eggs. The temperature needs to be between 80 and 84 degrees Farenheit. I tried it last year in the summer and just had brown stuff on top of the water. 

I have come to appreciate sponge filters again. I don't like the idea of clogging up my filter with food. I would rather the fish eat the leftovers off the sponge filter before the water gets to the power filter or hang on back or whatever. 

Let us know what you find or works for you. I think it may be about another month for my next digital camera...... I am learning patience. sigh....

Linda C. how is that Hatchery working out?


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

By the way, I think the Hatchery may work MUCH better than the Shrimpery from SFBB, but that was just my experience. I have thought of getting the hatchery. Please let me know how that works for you. I am especially interested in how easy it is to siphon off when done. Thanks. 

Jimbo205


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## EahInMass (Aug 29, 2006)

My little Sterbai fry got their first supper of live baby brine tonight! They were elated!!!


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Well worth it when they go nuts for the little shrimp isn't it?!

Just watch their growth rate shoot up now!

Jimbo, thanks mate. Grosing kids out always works a treat! Saves my voice as I don't have to bellow at them not behaving too!!!

My hatchery is a conical platic one that is a good design, but not worth the money IMO. I could make a similar one from bottles but was looking for amore robust one. I'm really looking for a glass cone, that would be ideal and much easier to clean!


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## EahInMass (Aug 29, 2006)

Hun put ours in a 2 gallon glass aquarium with the long airstone at the bottom. After turning the airstone off and allowing the stuff to settle we also place a light to attract the little critters. After about 5-10 minutes they all swarm to the light which I place at the opposite end of where all the floating debris has gone. That way, nothing to bother scooping around. Just plop the brine shrimp net in and swoop them out, rinse them under RO water and plop them in the fry tank. Works like a champ - no hassle here! Was wondering though, seeing as though I have so many now....what is it you guys are feeding? Please be brand specific, lol! Hun just sprinkled some sort of green stuff in but not all that sure what it is. I know he uses it to make his homemade fish food for his saltwater aquarium.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

> Was wondering though, seeing as though I have so many now....what is it you guys are feeding? Please be brand specific, lol! Hun just sprinkled some sort of green stuff in but not all that sure what it is. I know he uses it to make his homemade fish food for his saltwater aquarium.


 I am not clear what you are asking.


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## EahInMass (Aug 29, 2006)

lol, sorry....
I was asking what you guys are feeding the baby brine after they have reached their 24 hour lifespan...after they've molted?


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Nothing at all. Either feed them immediately or throw them out. Artemia Nauplii get their nutritional value from the 'egg sack' that the 'embryo' or 'larvae' develop from. When freshly hatched neither mouth nor anus has been formed yet. 
Feed immediately. You hatch just the amount you need to feed each day so that they are fresh and at their nutritional peak. For the amount of work of raising 'adult brine shrimp' it would be best just to purchase frozen brine shrimp. 

For fry, artemia nauplii are small enough for fish fry and other creatures to eat and have the HUVA (fatty acids) that help them to grow and the adults to spawn. 

After they molt, their nutritional value takes a massive dive. 

But I am just repeating what I learned. I recommend the article by Gary Lange and Michael Helleg from the Tropical Fish Hobbyist. These guys really know their stuff and have both raised and breed fish for quite some time. 

I am just a guy learning something new too. :smile:

I hope my answer was helpful.


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## EahInMass (Aug 29, 2006)

Thanks Jimbo. I did read the article but didn't see a specific brand name of what it is they were feeding theirs. I will have to look at it again. I know that they did mention that their nutritional value is at it's best when they first hatch and up until 12 hours, before they get ready to molt. But I just don't see the sense on throwing the guys away. Thought it said something about feeding them to make them more nutritional before feeding them to the fry.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

You can feed the BBS and enrich them, you can even gut load them with HUFA enriched food, but I do the same as Jimbo and just feed them straight away!

If I've got too many you can freeze them in little ice cube trays in case you haven't got any one day and need some!


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

What does it mean to gut load them? 
I have read the same thing a bunch of places and never quite understood what that meant.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Jimbo205 said:


> What does it mean to gut load them?
> I have read the same thing a bunch of places and never quite understood what that meant.


Basically it's about giving them a load of really nutritional food that they eat, but before they have time to digest it you feed them to the fish. The fish eat the shrimp and they digest them, and the stuff in their guts. It's a good way of boosting the nutritional value of shrimp. I haven't done it myself, but know a few killi keepers who have.


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## EahInMass (Aug 29, 2006)

Interesting about the ice cube trays....
What exactly is HUVA enriched food? What do I look for? This batch is already a few days old....just go ahead and chuck it? Have I waited too long? I just have sooo many!!!


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

HUFA enriched food is something that you can get from a fish store or breeders supply company and like Ed said, you feed it to the shrimp just before you feed the shrimp to the fish. You can feed what you have to the fish. It won't hurt them. It just won't have the same umph that freshly hatched will. Ice Cubes... that is an interesting idea. I figure so long as I keep what I have in the basement and out of the kitchen my fish stuff should be safe in my house. Although, I also have a freezer chest in my basement if I really wanted to try this. Hmmm... Curious. 

I have taken a 3 day break from hatching Artemia Nauplii. I have heard the idea of switching foods from time to time. Something about variety being good for the fish. I am not sure how much I really buy that idea, but it was neat to see my fish go after the freeze dried bloodworms (mosquito larvae I think it really is.) I plugged in my heater tonight to prepare for starting another Brine Shrimp Batch tomorrow night. I like the fact that the fry, shrimp and Malaysian Trumpet Snails all have a fair chance of getting the food they need. The Nauplii are so tiny and spread out so easily. It's not like the 'big' Mama Endlers can eat them all first (but they DO try!)

I have enough Endler Fry that have just barely started to show their colors that it might actually be worth trimming the plants in my El Naturale Tank and try to catch some males (ha, ha, ha). Wish me luck. Those suckers are incredibly fast. What do you think is the best strategy for catching them? Wait until they are all hungry and then put in a large glass jar with the food on the bottom of it? Let me know your ideas.


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## deepdiver (May 30, 2006)

^^^^^^^^^^
Two nets are a must Jimbo:heh: 

I "coax" them to one side with a small net, and them run them into the bigger net. That's not my favorite way to do it, but that's the on'y way I could catch them last time. Usually they cooperate 

I tried strainig out some BBS, but I just can't seem to do it. How do you separate the unhatched eggs you inevitably suck out with the live shrimp? How do you separate the shrimp from the saltwater, and then get the shrimp in the tank to feed? I tried a shrimp net, and an old t-shirt. I can't get anything to work for me.


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## EahInMass (Aug 29, 2006)

wow...I really don't go through any of this...
I put the eggs and such in a 2 gallon glass aquarium tank. Once hatched, Ishut off the airstone so everything settles and the shrimp can freely swim without being bounced all over the place. Shine some sort of light on one side of the tank and wait for them to gather on that side (takes several minutes, I usually siphon out debris in fry tank while waiting). The bbs swarm to the side with the light after a while. I scoop them out with my brine shrimp net (airstone had made the unhatched shells either sink or float to the opposite side of the tank). And I rinse the net with brine in RO before plopping them in the fry tank. I am extremely new to this and don't have much experience, but that is what I have done so far, deepdiver!


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## deepdiver (May 30, 2006)

OK, I was trying a 500mL hatch, so maybe I need to try a bigger container. Thanks


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

> I tried strainig out some BBS, but I just can't seem to do it. How do you separate the unhatched eggs you inevitably suck out with the live shrimp? How do you separate the shrimp from the saltwater, and then get the shrimp in the tank to feed? I tried a shrimp net, and an old t-shirt. I can't get anything to work for me.


 This is harder to visualize unless you are doing a larger batch. But if you are using a bottle for a hatcher, you take the bubbler out (some people use a stiff bubbler tube at the end of airline hose) and let the water in the bottle settle for about 5 minutes. The unhatched or left over shells float to the top, to some that can see the color - in larger batches it is a dark brown. The 'orange' artemia nauplii sink to the bottom and then you can siphon them out into a brine shrimp net. You then can rinse them out with fresh water and feed them to the fish.

I have been tempted to get a 2nd brine shrimp net because I see the water that goes through my 1st brine shrimp net still has some brine shrimp in it.

I guess it all depends on how much time you want to play with it. :smile:



> I "coax" them to one side with a small net, and them run them into the bigger net. That's not my favorite way to do it, but that's the only way I could catch them last time. Usually they cooperate


 I am just about geared up to clean out my tanks (take the plants out) and do just what you said.

Part of me is thinking of putting in a large glass jar with the brine shrimp in it and somehow without stirring up the water too much; put the jar in the tank and let the fish swim into the jar to eat the brine shrimp AND THEN maybe I will have the fish in the jar 'caught' to sort out the males. Hmmm...


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Anyone ever try this yet? Sounds perfect!!!

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1


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## BigRed27 (Mar 11, 2004)

Jimbo205 said:


> Anyone ever try this yet? Sounds perfect!!!
> 
> http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1


Ive seen that too but I am skeptical how the saltwater never comes in contact with the fresh but yet the brine shrimp can swim out? I understand that saltwater has a different density/buoyancy but still I just dont trust it. I would love to hear if anyone has ever tried it, etc.


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## rs79 (Dec 7, 2004)

White worms.

I've never found any food as easy to culture, as productive or one that doesn't foul the tank (they live for days in water) and that all fish eat.

I've read a solid diet of white worms is fattening but I've found the reverse to be true. On flake food fish seem to get fat but on worms they don't. This is after doing this for 10 years.

http://killi.net/feeding/live/cultured/worms/white/


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