# Angels: male and/or female ?



## Newt

Can anyone tell me the sex of my two angelfish based on the attached pictures?
They are about 2 years old.


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## Six

#3 looks the most male to me. I'm not the best at IDing angelfish sexes though. I'd vote #1 as female and #2 as a he-she. J/K- #2 I dunno.


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## Newt

Thanks. I dont know where to begin distinguishing the sexes of an angelfish.
Pic#1 is of the largest. He/She is a bit aggressive. More so than the smaller one.
Pic#2 is of the thinner, more delicate, small fish.
Pic#3 has both in it but the smaller/thinner fish is in the foreground.
Both are intelligent and know me and know the food is coming when you show it to them.

Typical of large angelfish - both will take flake food from my fingers.

I can tell you the long fin at the bottom has a different shape on the two. Not sure if that means anything.


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## Six

Since angels have been bred for finnage, I don't usually go by that. I look at the head. A female will have a sloped forehead, males will show a nuchal hump usually. 

#3 in front looks like a fish with a nuchal hump hence I suggest it is the most likely to be male. The first pic looks very female. Alas, I am no expert in angelfish. Hopefully someone else will chime in. :-\"


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## Newt

I'll take a look tomorrow for that hump vs. slope forehead when the lights are back on.
What hump?


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## Six

Look at the profile of the fish. The female will have a pretty straight sloped foredead from the mouth to the top of the head. The male will have it straight near the mouth, then near the eye on the "forehead" there will be a change and a slight "hump". Google "Nuchal hump" images to see other cichlid species with more pronounced humps. Looking at the males and females of those fish may help you see it. Angels do not have a pronounced one, but it's usually there in older fish.

here's a male fish:









It's a little hard to explain the concept since angels dont show a good nuchal hump! LOL.

GL.


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## TAB

The head shape is normally correct, but with how much angles have been inbred, the only real way to tell any more is to look at thier sex orgens.


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## Newt

What would I be looking for?


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## Six

If it's like other fish, you'll need to pull the fish out and look at the vent. The details I'm not sure on- haven't vented a fish in years. 
GL


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## ddavila06

i think the first one might also be a male, the third one has a pretty obvious bump in the head but im also looking at the angle that the top fin makes with its head: look at the second one, is very straight. then again there is not 100% technique except seeing them doing it. the first one looks very much like my doble d black male angel for some reason. look at the hump in my pic next to the female might also be the diamond shaped body?


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## Newt

Those are some nice looking black angels.

The 2nd and 3rd pics are of the same fish. The 1st fish is in the background of the 3rd picture.


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## ddavila06

same pic? thats a shocker:-? can you get a shot of both side by side?


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## Newt

I'll try. They are camera shy and not very cooperative.


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## Zapins

I have found the best way of sexing the fish is to look at them head on so their body outline is at its thinnest. This way you will be able to see the thickness of the body where the ventral fins join the body. The further apart each ventral fin is (the thicker the fish) the more likely the fish is a female. Also if you look at the papilla (sex organs right behind the ventral fin) the one with the larger hole is the female. Sometimes the papilla are visible. If it is pointy at the tip its a male, if it is slightly rounded then its a female. Looking at head shape is not a very reliable method of telling the two sexes apart. The head bulge changes over time, it is particularly large in males when the fish are paired up and in a breeding mood. Sometimes the male will have slightly longer caudal filaments at the tips of his tail though finnage does vary with the fish. You should look at all these markers holistically to determine sex.


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## Newt

Thanks for the info Zapins. I'll take a look.
I used to have this angle (pic below) that would lay eggs all the time but there was no male. It got to be too big and was eating my cardinals so I turned it into the LFS for the two I have now.


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## Zapins

No problem. Damn that is a beautiful fish...


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## Newt

She was nice but just got too big...............real big. 
When you can choke down ghost shrimp and cardinals its time to go.


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## Zapins

Haha yea, I had some angels that ate every cardinal I put in my tank. I thought the cardinals would be faster and smarter but nope  then I found out angel fish naturally eat cardinals in the wild so hahaha!


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## Gordonrichards

I'm picking up 10 silver/grey angels from a breeder this monday.
$2.00 per fish, he says every one of them is in top shape.

Since I plan on having the 10 in my 33 long, I'll see if any of them pair off over the next year or so.

I think I'll keep two pair.


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