# Aquasoil/PS vs. Aquasoil - POLL



## jerseyjay (Jan 25, 2004)

COMPLETE POLL !

I'm seeing more and more people giving mixed feedback. There are many hobbyists out there who swear by Aquasoil / PowerSand Special mix and wouldn't setup a tank any other way. However there are some who prefer 100% Aquasoil (* plus mulm) due to nutritient / visual preferences.

Please elaborate:

Why would / did you setup a tank with MIX ?

or

Why would / did you setup a tank with 100% soil ?


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## mlfishman (Apr 4, 2005)

*just set mine up*

I just set up a 29 gallon last night. 100% Aquasoil + mulm & peat. love the look.


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## jsenske (Mar 15, 2004)

I personally try to follow the the model set forth by Amano. I am confident, however, that both methods work just fine.


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## Kharn (Nov 9, 2004)

Hia everyone.

I recently set up a tank using PS/Aquasoil and i have never seen anything grow at that incredible rate.
I had planted HC at approx 5 cm apart and in a few weeks it had grown compleatly together.

During that time i i used PMDD but only in small quantitys.

However i had some big problems with algee at the time the PS started to loose some of its power hehe. ( Lost all the HC )
I gues i just did not catch the signs in time but that may come down to the fact that i lack the experiense and knowledge to see when the plants needs more nutrients.

So looking back i think i should have used only Aquasoil and gone EI 100 %,
that might have saved me some problems and a loot of grey hair 

But the effect of the PS surely was stunning to watch hehe

Best Regards Jimmy from Sweden


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

Much of the success and failures will be due to other factors beside the product itself.

This is true of any substrate methods/product.

So understanding what each component does or does not do helps the user select what suits their personal needs and routines best.

This is not science, this is personal habits/the human factor.
It's just a tool to use to achieve something we desire.

Knowing how to use each tool in the box helps to select how you want to set a tank up. Some trade offs might not be worth it, some, might be.

That is a personal decision. 
And we all have opinions.

The folks in Singapore have a longer history and being so close together, they have compared usage of powersand a lot more than most folks in the USA. Most don't use it but use the soil. 

But as I have mentioned, to stop powersand from pulling up, using 1/4"-1/8" stainless steel mesh between the Soil and sand (another item to hunt down and buy) is one method, another is to leave the stumps and top, even the most careful uprooting pulls it up otherwise. 

Also, try pouring powersand into a pre existing tank with fish
You can do this easily with Aquasoil though and there's no rinsing and it will not muck up a tank, even a sparsely planted semi neglected tank.

So replacing one substrate for another is fairly idiot proof and is simpler, adding only one thing or if desired, add some peat and mulm.

Note, Aqua soil has nutrients in it, but the difference is that it has less NO3/PO4. PS and AS have about the same NH4.

HC is very responsive to KNO3.
Some folks can gradually switch over to other nutrient routines as the Ps wears out, but.....a newbie will not catch that.

So you cna start them out with a simple habit and have them stick with that. 90% of start up issues are CO2/not enough nutrients and the biggest issues is not enough plants from the start up.

CO2/nutrients, maintenance.

Regards, 
Tom Barr












Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

Amano's literature instructs that when laying down the layer of Power Sand, you should _still be able to see the bottom tank glass_ when you are done.


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

I haven't used this substrate yet but I'd go for the 100% soil. Not that I think that a layer of the PS wouldn't be beneficial (as I haven't tried it I have no idea) but after many tries with multi-layer substrates I stay away from them.

However, if it's a very thin layer, sort of like the "dusting" of peat that I use, then perhaps I'd use it. Interesting; this is the first I've heard that the PS should only be a very fine layer. I'm not sure why but I'd always assumed that it was supposed to be a more substantial amount than that! Another (repeated) lesson in making assumptions!


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## jsenske (Mar 15, 2004)

Oh no! The Powersand is very thin-- just a very bottom covering. The ratio is heavily in favor of Aqua Soil. No real "depth" to it beyond the granule size itself. One would use 2 liters of Powersand for 9 to 12 liters of AquaSoil in, for example, an average 20 gallon tank.


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

While my Aquasoil/powersand tank worked out extremely well, I didn't like the uprooting issue with PS coming to the top. I'd likely go with AS only next time and just column fert more.


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## alexperez (Oct 8, 2004)

Same reason as Gomer here. 
But what I don't get is why is it called power"sand" 
should be Power"rocks" cause the majority of my 
powersand was just small rocks and very little sand.


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## jerseyjay (Jan 25, 2004)

Although I'm not not using ADA product at the moment (* waiting for delivery) I have a feeling that secret lies in Salt's / Jeff's comment



> Amano's literature instructs that when laying down the layer of Power Sand, you should still be able to see the bottom tank glass when you are done.


If one applies THIN layer, I can't really imagine how you get white / grey chunks on PowerSand after each uprooting.

Here is a PowerSand / Aquasoil in action. Notice PowerSand being applied to "middle / back" portion of the tank plus final BACKGROUND layer of aquasoil !


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## JoeHoetzl (Feb 23, 2005)

OK, I have only used Aquasoil and Powersand on a very small tank (6.6g) and if I had to redo it, or, I might redo it, I will strain off the larger powersand mess and use the remaining aquasoil.

I did lay a very thin layer (could still see bottom) down, and covered it with generous amounts of "powder" and "Normal" amazonian, but upon the first move of a plant, I was greeted with the white marbled substrate look that I didn't like the looks of.

Even if I had put it down towards the back, and not to the sides, I still think it would eventually pull through. The problem would be a lot less noticeable if the color didn't contrast so much.

So, given the chance to use it again, the amazonian I would use in a heartbeat, the powersand I'll skip and put a dusting of peat and mulm down...


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## alexperez (Oct 8, 2004)

You make a good point there Jay, I wish I knew this before setting up my tank. 


> Amano's literature instructs that when laying down the layer of Power Sand, you should still be able to see the bottom tank glass when you are done.


When I bought the Aquasoil/powersand, the amount I got was based on what the ADG website said. 
ADA 120cm (48inX18in) U.S.75gal. 
powersand - 4- 2 liter bags M (med. granule) 
Aquasoil - 4- 9 liter bags

I assumed that I had to use it all. So I put in the 4- 2 liter bags of power sand and then topped it off with the aquasoil. Maybe if I had put down just a thin layer of powersand instead of all 4 bags, it would have been a lot better.

Is the amount recommended on the website the amount you are supposed to use on the tank? Or should you only do it as Ammano says?


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## fishfry (Apr 15, 2004)

100% aquasoil worked fine for me, haven't tried it with PS though...


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

If you only use a tiny amount of PS, well....then what good is it really doing and offering the plants?

Not much.

Other question: what is it adding as far as nutrients?
NO3 and PO4 pretty much is all. I can add that easy enough. 
AS has nutrients also......

Issue 2#: It's not offering aerobic conditions(As Jeff contended eariler) if you only add a small amount. The AS covers and surrounds it. This offers no "aerobic advantage" no matter how you slice it. 

So which is it? 

Add a lot and have the aerobic conditions, or add a small amount not?

You guys wanna have it both ways and are switching back and forth to support your pre determined conclusion that you gain a lot from using the entire line. But have not tested it with/without...........

You cannot have a layer of pumic only 1-2 grains deep and then cover it with AS and have any difference in the redox levels down there.
The issue of redox is less important anyway due to plant roots bringing O2 down there also. 

The AS is the thing that helps the growth, not all that other useless stuff that ADA sells along with it. Simple test show that.

That other stuff(Tourmaline, PS, iron bottom etc) will not hurt..........but it's not doing anything and makes a mess(PS) later. Now people are backing off and saying oh, you only use a little bit, well, then why bother at all if that's the case, add KNO3 and be done with all the extra junk you do not need?

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Does a tank with powersand have stronger/healthier rootsand lower rooted portions of stem plants? Just curoius speculation but if that was true, one would do much less uprooting and more topping.

I get the feeling based on photos of Amano tanks that there is much less uprooting than we westerners would be used to.

How much energy will plants put toward root production if they are obtaining most of their nutrients(and easier to obtain nutrients than the precipitated,bound or organic forms) from the water column

Sorry to go an a tangent Jay I just think that most people cannot compare their experience with Amano's because our tanks are not identical. Uness you have the exact same setup with MH lighting, timeframes of creature stocking, light duration and intensity, maintainence, cleaning, mulm, water changes, dosing, etc, we are not runningidentical expirments and therefor cannot compare results. Example., I bet that Amano's tanks build up a lot less mulm in th eusbstrate than mine do, they get picked over, fluffed and primped daily, better/more filter maintainence, etc.


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## jsenske (Mar 15, 2004)

Dennis makes a fine point. 

If you plan to pull stuff up a lot, skip the Powersand. Though my brother just completely revamped the tank in his office-- this would be the 3rd layout on that same substrate-- it's the one in the pics Jay posted-- and very little Powersand came up because: 1. it was mostlt stemmed plants and 2. he was very careful, took his time, and pulled the up gently. So it's possible. With anything new, there is a bit of a learning curve. 

Darn-- I guess I should have scaled back the Powersand on the big shipment coming in. I am already fielding calls daily with people saying "yeah, Tom Barr says you don't need the Powersand, so I'm just looking for AquaSoil." 

Power to The People! (not the sand, I suppose). 

I will keep using it because I think there's good reasons for doing so, though once again, they will not likley be of the kind I can produce a university reaserch lab study confirming, which likely makes it "useless".


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## brad (Jul 10, 2005)

Jeff, I know Tom can be hard to argue with, but at the same time, he`s also convinced me to get Aquasoil. I will also go without PS beacuase of him, but because of Tom, I will try the Aquasoil. As much as he appears to hurt business, he at least persuaded me to become a customer.(Even if it`s not for the entire ADA lineup)

O.K, back on topic. This is a very interesting thread!


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## Roy Deki (Apr 7, 2004)

I have only done one tank with the combo method and I too do not like having to push back down power sand that work it's way above the soil.
Next time I'm going 100% Aquasoil.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Just to be clear, I was not advocating for or against the Powersand I was mearly saying that I think most of us care for and maintain our aquariums differently than at the ADA gallery. I also would assume this would hold true when comparing America to other Asian countries. I get the feeling, though I may be wrong, that we westerners tend to muck with our setups much more while actually maintaining it less carefully. I bet we, on average, spend much more time ripping stuff up and bulldozing the substrate around, etc than our eastern hobbiests. I would even go so far as to theorize that Amano,et al, would spend much more time making little changes, cleaning, and making sure everything was just so, while at the same time doing it carefully and more methodically than you or I would.

Although I bet it reads that way, I certainly don't mean to sound stereotypical at all. I am just saying that techniques, and therefore conditions, vary and I feel we spend to much time comparing things that have to many variables to get a real comparison.

Even Tom is above most hobbiests. His contributions and experiments have added a wealth of knowledge to the hobby. But how many of us can replicate his successes? I don't mean that in a negative way! When he sets up an experiment to compare 2 soils he knows that everything is setup right, that there really is only 1 variable. Most of us don't have the experience, knowledge or resources to do that. Therefore, how can I compare my tank with Tom's? How could I compare my tank with an ADA gallery tank? I can't given my current conditions/experiences.

Personally, logically, I would completely agree with everything Tom has said regarding the ADA line. However, if you are going to setup an ADA style tank and MAINTAIN it the way ADA would, then you would probably follow the system with greater success than you might other wise. 

Now I am sure it can and will be argued that one can get the same results other ways, I don't think that is the point. The point is, there is only one way to grow healthy plants; give them all the nutrients they need. There is only one way to have no algae; healthy plants, clean tank. 


I do think though that there is more than one "system" to achieve these results. I also feel each system comes with its own style or personality. EI, ADA, PP, all can work if you do it right but they boil down to plain old good gardening skills. 

I see Powersand, Aquasoil, metal halides, Eco-complete, pressurized CO2 etc as luxuries. You can grow plants just fine with Silica sand, T12's, and no CO2. 

It all boils down to YOUR personality.

Now, sorry for the ramble!

Regarding Powersand, I see now reason not to use it if it fits your gardening personality style. If you rip out stems weekly, bulldoze the substrate around and don't keep a "clean" aquarium its probably not for you. However, if your willing to be thoughtful and play nice, are willing to gently coax plants out rather than rip them out and don't consider PS to be some magical medium, I bet it will work just fine.

Just please, know what your using and how to use it before you try it and complain you don't like it

BTW, non of my ramnblings was directed at any person in general. My use of I, we, you , etc are are used in a general blanketing manner


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## Ghazanfar Ghori (Jan 27, 2004)

Here's my experience with Aquasoil / Amazonia.
First off - I'm blown away by how stem plants grow in that combo.
It's unreal. I've grown over 90 species / varieties of aquatic plants 
over the years in all sorts of conditions / fert regiments / ratios / lighting
in an effort to grow each plant to its max potential. Thank God those
days are over now - I was driving myself crazy. That said, I've never
seen stem plants grow they way they do in Aquasoil / PS.

As with any substrate - smaller grains will work their way to the bottom
and larger ones to the top. Cannot avoid that at all. By uprooting stem
plants over and over again, you just accelerate the process. Personally
I hardly ever uprooted my stems in the tank I had the ADA substrate. 
The rotala green would just get pruned back almost to the ground and it'd
bounce right back thicker than before. Kept it going like that for over a year
before I sold the setup.

If you uproot your plants a lot, be prepared to clean up after yourself.
If you want to grow stems like you've never seen them grow - use PS.


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

My experience with Aquasoil/Power Sand Special combination:

It is great! I have never seen such amazing plant growth, personally, and I have tried nearly all of the most common substrates available (florabase, eco-complete, flourite, schultz aquatic plant soil, now aquasoil + PS). I have also grown many, many different species of aquatic plants, concentrating mostly on stem plants (70+ species) in many of these substrates.

An aquascape with Aquasoil+PS will mature much, much more quickly than an aquascape with any other substrate I have tried. The plants grow in thick and full. The coloration, vigor, and growth rates are unparalleled.

Pruning should be done by trimming across the top. Rarely do I ever have to uproot the whole mass of stems and replant them all. It is counter productive in an ADA based tank, and the stems do not grow in as thick and lush as they would otherwise especially for such stems as Rotala rotundifolia "Green" and Hemianthus micranthemoides.

Here is an example of a developing mound+concave aquascape of mine using ADA Power Sand Special and ADA Aquasoil. *It is about 1.5 months old in this photo:*










Pictures of the vigor of this layout:





































*In comparison*, I also have a 10g layout setup right next to the 20g with Flourite *and* a Fluval Peat underlayer. It is about 2 months *older* than the 20g. The progress has not been nearly as rapid, despite the intense lighting used in both setups. Here are photos taken from around the same time as the 20g photos shown above, the 10g being around 4 months old at the point the shots were taken:



















Nice moss growth but no where near as lush as the 20g. Little algae. Beautiful Cryptocoryne wendtii x hybrid foliage. However, one can plainly see how Aquasoil+PS works amazingly well compared to Flourite+Peat. I can't imagine not using Aquasoil without the PS which "jump started" the layout.

Two of my battery of three layouts in preparation this year had to come out of hiding...these two are interesting because of being setup side by side with similar fertilizer regimens, lighting intensities, but differing substrates.

Carlos


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## darkswan (Nov 13, 2004)

OK, it seems that you reached the following conclusions:

1- For sure PS is a drawback if you plan to uproot frquently because of pulling up issues
2- Even if, according to some test carried out on both PS and AS, it seems they bring the same nutrients, there are different opinions on real benefit of PS expecially on stem plants

I may add that PS is different from AS at least because it has peat and some organic stuff inside. So my question is: let's assume we don't want to use PS, shall we use AS only or is it advisable to add peat/mulm on the bottom? In particular, if AS comes from a previous set-up of course some mulm is included. Should we add peat?


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

jsenske said:


> Darn-- I guess I should have scaled back the Powersand on the big shipment coming in. I am already fielding calls daily with people saying "yeah, Tom Barr says you don't need the Powersand, so I'm just looking for AquaSoil."


Well, tell them Tom Barr does not know nuthing



> I will keep using it because I think there's good reasons for doing so, though once again, they will not likley be of the kind I can produce a university reaserch lab study confirming, which likely makes it "useless".


Well, the more practical apporach, try it and see........... I've done that, recall, we have a LFS that carries it locally and I've stopped in many times to view the goodies and the tanks and various plants that have.

I have 6 tanks without PS, I have access to 9 tanks with PS. I seem to do better without the PS or no difference.

I suppose if I did not fertilize the water column......then you will see better growth for the first month or two.

But that's like adding ferts vs not in that case......not a fair comparison.
Heat cables had the same type of hype and claims. At least PS has nutrients. Which is more than can be said for cables. And PS is much cheaper.

This was bound to come out and up at some point since many will try to cut to corners, my interest lay in what part is doing the "work". Typical things folks might try that might mess things up(such as dumping AS in through the water column in an existing tank).

AS has a fair amount of nutrients itself and supplies far more since it has some much volume and the nutrients, but unlike PS, the nutrients are occuluded, trapped inside the soft clay AS. This will diffuse out only very slowly or by root uptake/penetration. PS is simply porous pumice. Nothing is occuluded to any significant degree. There are some Osmocoat type balls of fertilizer in PS(longer term fert), peat, probably a general liquid fert that the PS is soaked in for immediate boost.

I did expect an algae bloom when I dumped the AS into the water column.
None occurred. I wanted to add some more to make a nice slope so I did not want to do a complete breakdown.

I am not saying that the PS has no use/function, but I think it's not particularly useful either(much like cables). It appears not to be a critical component at least with the folks in SG that have used it alone and the tanks I've seen/had.

Many folks in the past believed and many still believe that a enriched substrate with a deep nutrient content is somehow superior and reduces algae. Well, that is not true. But, there is still a market for those that do believe that.

Many in Europe still believe that, but the old timers are giving way. 
You still do get the benefits of some nutrients in the AS, but I think you get to a point where the water column dosing is really the main method after a few months anyhow.

Still, AS and water column dosing appear to provide all plants with everything they need. I'm certainly 100% sold on AS and the price is good and they have several colors to chose from and nice grain sizing.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

darkswan said:


> OK, it seems that you reached the following conclusions:
> 
> 1- For sure PS is a drawback if you plan to uproot frquently because of pulling up issues
> 2- Even if, according to some test carried out on both PS and AS, it seems they bring the same nutrients, there are different opinions on real benefit of PS expecially on stem plants
> ...


I think the peat is the main part, so yes, adding mulm should always be done and a new tank peat is a good idea. ADA was certainly not the first to suggest peat, we have been doing that for a long time(adding a small amount, probably the same amount as PS provides).

An established tank can use the mulm already, and the AS has some effects on the water in the tank also.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## jsenske (Mar 15, 2004)

Well stated by everyone. 

My conclusion: PS is simply an additional component-- not an outright necessity. 
Dennis really nailed it on many points too. 

I am actually thrilled to learn that AS without PS can work nicely by simply modifying ones methodology a bit. That opens things up to a wider range of hobbyists with a wider range of approaches. 

Many approaches exist, and many have proven successful. Dennis' opinions regarding personality I think are right on target with this point as well. I am very meticulous, careful when rescaping. As well, it is simply not something I do very often anymore. My approach now is more geared toward trying to use my imagination, envision the matured aquascape, and try to execute along those lines as accuartely as possible in the initial layout phase. That, however, has been many years in the making, and of course, newbies and others are working differently, and with good reason. 

So with a little modification, using just AS seems a good way to reap benefits it provides, while still being able to work in the style/manner/personality that suits you best. Using AS and PS can provide an added dimension to your process, especially in the early phases of a layout, and fit those with a different longterm plan for their aquascape. I think that's pretty cool.


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

I think that was well said Jeff/Dennis.
I'm not here busting folk's chops, I see things as tools to achieve something for our goals. It's one more tool in the bag to solve issues and make choices for the best approach for the individual.

I support AS, ADA, SeaChem, TMG, non CO2 methods, not testing and testing, Excel methods, and EI and substrate fertilization methods.

But I also want to know the *trades offs and impacts* each method/product has. That's the key for me. 

I think many misinterpt things there when I am critical or supportive.
Still, whatever someone wants to do, I'll try and help. 

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Ibn (Oct 20, 2004)

If I was to do it over again, it'll be straight Aquasoil. Have two different tanks setup, one with PS and one without. Growth rates in both are phenomenal but in the tank without PS, I don't have to worry about shoving the PS back down during replantings.


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## Skyfish (Jun 8, 2004)

Not sure if I should wake this sleeping lion up, but here goes.

My order of AS and PS is in process. I will be trying this mix.

The main reason for my post is that I have heard (seen setup pics) of many of the Hong Kong hobbyist, who use AS and PS, use a mesh over the PS. This eliminates the problem of the PS coming up when we are planting and replanting. I suppose this would be great for a longer/permanent scape, maybe.

Oh the flip side, as I have been told and logically speaking, it would be difficult to uproot plants, especially crypts that root deep. Chances of pulling up the net, making a huge mess, comes to mind.

I can't say much as I have not tried this method, but why would so many over in the Far East use it? I spoke to a few suppliers (not the main dealer) of ADA products in Hong Kong over the phone and they all recommended I use it. A 48" x 20" stainless steel mesh costing a cool 30 dollars.

Not debating anything here, just wondering why. I know that Amano never uses it.

Regards


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## [email protected] (May 12, 2005)

Whenever I have pulled up a little PS, it's either been a minor enough amount that I was able siphon it out easily, or I simply added fresh AS on top to cover it up. I am not crazy about the mesh idea, but it must be ok if so many people are using it. I don't think I ever will personally, as te PS coming up has been such a non-issue for me. :fencing:


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

Hi all,

I'm all for PS+Aquasoil if you do the whole PenacW, PenacP, Tourmaline BC, Bacter 100, Clear Super etc.

Otherwise if you plan to do some modding[ala PPS or EI or PMDD etc, use As alone.

The Amano way is a bit expensive for most people in SEA[southeast asia] and wanna get by with just As and keep nice plants.
For long term it's recommended to use PS because of the As compacting. It is a soil after all.

For those of use planting easy to keep plants it's better to save money and go for sand tanks.

On another note, I have this to say about stem plants. it's hard to keep them growing in a nice continuous/even shape for me from water column dosing alone because of my schedule.[can't afford a liquidoser]
I suspect root feeding helps reduce this problem of shrinking when water column dosing is irregular. Logically the Amano way promotes healthy roots for this to work.

my two cents and speaking from what i gleaned from seeing people use ADA products so generously when setting up. makes me go 'wah!' watching whole bottles of expensive stuff into a 6 footer setups! [picture of jeff pouring in the powdered stuff looks moderate in comparison! ]

So far i must say i don't like the PS stones popping up like pop corn but standing some chopsticks pick and extra As top cover it up helps.

regards

stan. sorry rambling... my next setup is using the whole she bang.


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