# How to circulate the water without bothering the plants...



## 9thirty (Nov 16, 2007)

There has been one thing regarding my aquarium in my mind lately. How can I get the water in my tank to circulate without bothering the plants and "blowing them away". I have a DIY filter and it works just fine. I want the current to push fish excrements towards the filter, but my current can't be too strong or else my plants will pay.
I have sand as substrate (due to bad advice from LFS).


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

You could get an adjustable water pump and place it on the opposite side from the intake, this will help some what. Other than that, just swapping the vacuum over the top of the sand during water changes will help remove most of the debris.


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## Amazon_Replica (Nov 24, 2007)

I have a diy co2 reactor with a powerhead aiming right at the back corner of the tank, at a downward angle. while it does affect the immediate proximity as far as current really moving plants (within 8"), it does effectively move water around the tank without much disturbance overall.


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## gotcheaprice (Sep 4, 2007)

Always wondered about that. I have a rena xp3 in my 55 gal, so I have to put the spray bar along the back, can't on the side, so it pushes my tall plants forward a lot, so I just trimmed them, lol.
I'm still unsure on how to get great circulation, but its working fine for now.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I use an XP3 on a 45 gallon tank, with the spray bar across the back too. I keep it up near the water surface and directed slightly upwards to ripple the water a bit. Being that high and directed even higher, it doesn't blast the tall plants to any excessive degree. Having a bit of surface disturbance is a good way to make the CO2 concentration drop at night with the solenoid off, and it helps oxygenate the water and prevent surface scum. The price is a higher usage of CO2.

This is not an optimal water circulation. I am planning to do without the spray bar when I clean the tank next, and probably put the filter output at the end of the tank, the same end as the filter inlet, to try to force water circulation down the tank, down to the bottom and back to the inlet. I also use a powerhead for additional flow, but I'm not sure where it will be with the new filter flow setup. I, too, don't know how to get great circulation, and how to maintain what circulation I get as the plants grow much fuller. Maybe we will all learn more about this as we go.


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## gotcheaprice (Sep 4, 2007)

I see, don't have a powerhead yet but will consider one soon. Right now, the flow seems alright, but I'll try a few different positions on the next clean out. Also, the spray bar doesn't fit along the side of the tank, so that was out of the question xD 
Are you gonna use the other jet output thing that came with the xp3 hoppy? Wouldn't that move a lot of substrate pointing down?

And how _do_ you tell if there is good circulation?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

gotcheaprice said:


> I see, don't have a powerhead yet but will consider one soon. Right now, the flow seems alright, but I'll try a few different positions on the next clean out. Also, the spray bar doesn't fit along the side of the tank, so that was out of the question xD
> Are you gonna use the other jet output thing that came with the xp3 hoppy? Wouldn't that move a lot of substrate pointing down?
> 
> And how _do_ you tell if there is good circulation?


No, I'm not going to use the jet output. I'm going to use this: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+10090+14680&pcatid=14680

The best way I can see to tell if you have good circulation is to watch all of the leaves and see if they all sway in the current. A way to tell that you don't have good circulation is to have symptoms of low CO2, but have a drop checker saying you have high CO2. That is how I tell.


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## ponyrandy (Jan 13, 2007)

I too seem to be having the same problem with circulation after installing my DIY spraybar. I have had an outbreak of GDA and the plant growth has slowed way down. I put a powerhead in the rear corner pointing forward and can see the plants swaying now. I am curious to see how much this one powerhead changes my current situation (no pun intended). Hoppy, I think I am going to also do away with the spraybar and do something similiar once I see the difference this powerhead makes. 
Brian


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I don't know what causes GDA to strike, so it may or may not be a circulation problem. But, in general the more plant mass you have, the harder it is to maintain good water flow to all of the plants.


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## Amazon_Replica (Nov 24, 2007)

i did have to move my milfoil a bit, it kept laying down with the reverse current, also, i failed to mention i have a diy canister filter, and intake and return line are on opposite ends. Water return is at a 45* angle, it works well but looks like crap. Bright white pvc pipe lol. you can even see my metal clamp, nothing has covered it yet even with coaxing. :doh:

My poin tis the 2 work ok together. The return moves about half of my volume, and the powerhead moves about a quarter. Im not a scientist, thats just from staring at the tank, and as hoppy says watching the leaves. 

Any thoughts about a diy spraybar that lays down, the entire length of the tank, on back wall. holes on one side. Kinda of like the ol lawn sprinklers for kids years ago? angled at the back wall spraying upward, or something?


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## chagovatoloco (Nov 17, 2007)

I have a fluvol 204 on my tank. When I set it up the I used the return line to run my diy co2 reactor, a cylinder with the return going in to the side and co2 in the top. this made a vortex effect that mixed the co2 and water. I had little watter current with this setup, in fact I often got a thick film on to of my water. When I added a power head this went away and plants did better having the circulation, the more I thought about this it was not a proper setup. I got a glass co2 diffuser on ebay for 20$ that gave me the same co2 out put as my diy. I had the same co2 level with no adjustment. So I put the spout back on the return line a ran according to the factory setup. My tank did a lot better and the film on top went away, in fact the plants did not mind the current. Some times simpler is better.


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## greenfish (Mar 7, 2005)

hoppycalif said:


> No, I'm not going to use the jet output. I'm going to use this: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+10090+14680&pcatid=14680


I installed one of these today on the output from my xp3 on my 55. My circulation is definitely increased. I placed it at one end with it angled slightly upward. I can see the surface movement all the way on the other side of the tank. I also notice more movement throughout the tank at all water levels. I don't know what this will do to my co2 but I will keep a close watch on my drop checker over the next few days.


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## TortoiseBoy (Dec 30, 2004)

I had only a cannister filter (Eheim 2028 ) on my 90g and I was just not getting enough water movement. I was getting cyanobacteria and the plants weren't doing all that well. I added a big powerhead (the Hagen that used to be called the 801), putting it upside down at the bottom of the tank with one of those prefilters on the intake. I then plumbed the output with a 90 degree angle and attached a spraybar so that it is oriented vertically along the back wall. This setup seems to work really well. It seems to get movement to all parts of my tank, which is what I was going for. The only disadvantage is that it tends to flatten out the plants in the background if I prune to heavily. I combat this by having the most dense and strongest-stemmed plants immediately in front of the outflow. Anyway, that is how I have it set up and it seems to work pretty well.


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## oblongshrimp (Aug 8, 2006)

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4585+15955&pcatid=15955

these are some really nice powerheads. I bought them for a salt tank i have and they don't give a small super strong stream like most powerheads do. They create more flow and its over a wider area and not always the same intensity at a single place. I think I may try using some of these things in my planted tank eventually.


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## mikenas102 (Feb 8, 2006)

gotcheaprice said:


> Also, the spray bar doesn't fit along the side of the tank, so that was out of the question xD


I have an xp3 and my spraybar was too long also. They are very easy to cut down. Pop the end cap off and use a fine hacksaw blade to trim off what you don't need. You can also drill the holes slightly larger to reduce the force of the water coming out. I trimmed about 2" off the end of mine and it worked out great.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

greenfish said:


> I installed one of these today on the output from my xp3 on my 55. My circulation is definitely increased. I placed it at one end with it angled slightly upward. I can see the surface movement all the way on the other side of the tank. I also notice more movement throughout the tank at all water levels. I don't know what this will do to my co2 but I will keep a close watch on my drop checker over the next few days.


I haven't had time to install mine yet, but your experience gives me hope that this will be a big improvement for me too. I think I will leave the powerhead out to see if I really need it with this change.


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## greenfish (Mar 7, 2005)

hoppycalif said:


> I haven't had time to install mine yet, but your experience gives me hope that this will be a big improvement for me too. I think I will leave the powerhead out to see if I really need it with this change.


Update: I did notice a drop in my Co2 levels. I upped my bubble rate a bit and redirected the flow nozzle so that it is more parallel with the surface of the water.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

A DIY spraybar can be made out of PVC. Any length you want, drill small holes at first and test it. Small holes will likely create a stronger blast than you want, but the spray will be even along the length of the bar. Drill the holes a little bigger and test again until the flow is gently enough for you. If the holes are too big then you will get lots of water out of the first holes, and little or no water out of the holes at the far end. 
Bigger pump will call for a larger diameter pipe and give you a stronger flow over the full length of the pipe. 

I like the idea of taking water from the bottom and circulating it upward. 
Are you thinking of using a separate pump, such as a fountain pump for this? It might also work connected to a canister.


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## gotcheaprice (Sep 4, 2007)

Alright, gonna bump this thread for further investigation. 
Right now, I have my spray bar in the middle with the intake on the left side of the intake(more plant mass), and I have decent circulation, but I don't think it's great since I have hair algae mainly on one side of the tank and that side has junk on the plants. 
I'm gonna order that nozzle soon, so hopefully it'll help.

Few questions though:
1) Where are you guys gonna put the intake? Right next to the output?
2) If I get a power head for my 55 with that nozzle, where would be the ideal location?








This is still pretty much my set up, except the top right corner is open with hc(still not rooted  ), and the bottom left corner has a few low stems. The rest is still heavily planted. If I got a power head, I think it'll push the plants too much if I put it low, so should it be high?
3) Which power head should I get? Oblongshrimp posted those hydro ones(which I I might order from kens fish since I need other stuff, even though shipping cost comes out to the same for once), but dunno how strong of a power head I need. It's nice that it doesn't give a directional flow though!

So much to learn


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

oblongshrimp said:


> http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4585+15955&pcatid=15955
> 
> these are some really nice powerheads. I bought them for a salt tank i have and they don't give a small super strong stream like most powerheads do. They create more flow and its over a wider area and not always the same intensity at a single place. I think I may try using some of these things in my planted tank eventually.


What do you mean over a wider area and not always the same intensity? Does this unit rotate? It says 360 degree of movement. How does it not suck the fish or plants into it? Would it suck in small baby fish? It just looks like a big fan. Also how do you hide the "BIG ELEPHANT" in the tank? 

I have been looking for a powerhead and these look promising. I want extra circulation in my 125g I have 2 Rena XP3's. What size do you recommend? Don't want to actually blow my fish around!


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

I've just bought a new systemised tank and was looking at those Hydor Koralia circulators as I may need to up the flow in the tank. They basically are a little 'water fan'. New models come with a magnetic attachment too for a secure fixing. They are similar to the Tunze Stream pumps in idea/design and produce a wider flow pattern, rather than a narrow jet like most pumps. Not sure about things getting in, but on the one I'd seen they were very narrow slits on the cage.


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## ZooKeeper (Oct 16, 2007)

Here a link to a web site that shows one way of circulating water. Not sure if it's what you are looking for, but something to try.

http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-aquarium/95.asp

Ed


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## gotcheaprice (Sep 4, 2007)

So, any suggestions on the model of the hydor power head? I'm putting in an order soon for a filter, so I wanna order them together. Thanks!


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Well for my 180 litre (40 UK gallon) new tank I was looking at the smallest model which is rated for 400gph to supplement the flow. I'm not sure whether to go overboard though and get the 600gph model! Apparently as the flow is more 'spread out' so you can go with higher flow rates, but even the 400gph is 2.5 times the flow rate of the filter in my new tank so I might just stick with the smallest.


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## gotcheaprice (Sep 4, 2007)

Same thought here for my 55. My filstar xp3 is rated at 350, and even less cause of the media, so I expect the power head to be pretty decent even when spreading it out at 400 gph.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

I have noticed they also do a 'Nano' model. That's only 6cm long and moves 900lph apparently. Think I'm going to wait until I set my new tank up before buying one, but will be interested to hear how it does, if you do buy one.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

these are some really nice powerheads. I bought them for a salt tank i have and they don't give a small super strong stream like most powerheads do. They create more flow and its over a wider area and not always the same intensity at a single place. I think I may try using some of these things in my planted tank eventually.[/QUOTE]

Got my Hydor Koralia power head today and installed it. I love it. One neat feature is the ability to swivel it to any direction in your tank. The magnet feature to attach to your glass allows you to put it at any height or side. It really moves the water around but has a wider range. *Thanks so much for the recommendation oblongshrimp and ed seeley.* I have it near some vals and pointing into the direction of Java Wendelov. It doesn't suck the vals in and doesn't blow off the Java. Nice pump. FYI, it's the 850 gph.


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## kitfoxdrvr (Dec 29, 2007)

Got my Hydor Koralia power head today and installed it. I love it. One neat feature is the ability to swivel it to any direction in your tank. The magnet feature to attach to your glass allows you to put it at any height or side. It really moves the water around but has a wider range. *Thanks so much for the recommendation oblongshrimp and ed seeley.* I have it near some vals and pointing into the direction of Java Wendelov. It doesn't suck the vals in and doesn't blow off the Java. Nice pump. FYI, it's the 850 gph.[/QUOTE]

Tex Gal:

What size tank are you using it on? I would like to try one of these in an AGA 180 and was wondering if the magnet will work on glass that thick.

Thanks!
Steve


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Steve: 
I have an Oceanic 125g. My glass is 3/8 " or 1 cm thick. It sticks fine. I don't know how that compares with your tank. It's funny because I have baby Kribs in there and their nest was in that dead area side. Now they are kinda blown around. They are big enough to really fend for themselves even though the parents still watch out for them. They are all in a quandry! what do ya wanna bet the parents will move them! :biggrin1:


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## gotcheaprice (Sep 4, 2007)

Got mine today too...
What model did you get tex gal? Someone suggested me a 3 for a 55, but I think it's a bit too much, as on half of the tank, the stem plants are being blown horizontally xD

I dunno what to do it with, should've gotten a 2 I guess.

Oh, I put it in the bottom right of my tank (if you look at the picture on page 1). The bottom is the front of the tank in the picture, and the top left is where my filter is. Circulation is everywhere, but maybe too much?

Ok, a huge urge to turn my tank into a iwagumi now...

Anyway that I can turn down the flow on this thing?


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

gotcheaprice said:


> Got mine today too...
> What model did you get tex gal? Someone suggested me a 3 for a 55, but I think it's a bit too much, as on half of the tank, the stem plants are being blown horizontally xD
> 
> I dunno what to do it with, should've gotten a 2 I guess.
> ...


I bought the #3 (rated for 850gph) for my 125g - 6 ft wide. I don't see your tank on page one, but I can't imagine this pump in a 55g! It's plenty for my tank! Your fish must be pushed around in circles!  I don't think there is an adjustment for less flow. My instructions don't mention such a thing. Maybe you could put yours behind some rocks or something so that it would spread out the flow more for you. I have mine aimed at the bottom of my tank at some driftwood with Java wendelov. That way it can't uproot anything and still gives me the movement on the bottom of my tank.


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

I like to use external pumps with DIY inlet outlet (pvc) for big tanks that need extra current.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Yeah, I think that's a good idea too if you are handy. I was thinking about that but these little pumps are so quick and easy... and cheap! I was thinking about getting an external pump and using it to power just my AM1000 reactor instead of inline to my canister filter. But I would need to have all these different parts and I'm just not that handy. If I had someone who could list every part and where to get them... etc. I'm afraid I'd be buying all these pieces and then get them all together and find that something is the wrong size or I'm missing something..... I guess I'm a DIY wuss. Maybe if I end up with CO2 supply issues - but so far so good. :mrgreen:


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## gotcheaprice (Sep 4, 2007)

Arg, xD

Yeah, they are being blown around on one side of the tank, the other they're fine. They also hide under the powerhead too, so yeah.

I'm gonna have to somehow switch it... There is no hardscape in my tank since it's a dutch, so the only thing I can do is to switch


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Sorry to hear it's causing some issues. I think I'll definitely get the 1 model then for my 180 litre tank. Hope you manage to swap it ok. I guess the recommendation was by a reef-keeper where they want the water really blown around?


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## gotcheaprice (Sep 4, 2007)

Haha, I think so. WHat I remember though was that he/she had 2 or 3 in a 125, so 55 seemed to be perfect. I might switch it to a iwagumi now though, lol. Parents don't like dutch tanks, and I wanted to do a iwagumi before, so I'll make my shrimp tank a dutch.


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## kitfoxdrvr (Dec 29, 2007)

Tex Gal said:


> Steve:
> I have an Oceanic 125g. My glass is 3/8 " or 1 cm thick. It sticks fine. I don't know how that compares with your tank. It's funny because I have baby Kribs in there and their nest was in that dead area side. Now they are kinda blown around. They are big enough to really fend for themselves even though the parents still watch out for them. They are all in a quandry! what do ya wanna bet the parents will move them! :biggrin1:


The 180 glass is only slightly thicker, so I think these will work. I think I will try a couple of the 2's and see how they work. Great tip, folks!

Thanks!
Steve


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

kitfoxdrvr said:


> The 180 glass is only slightly thicker, so I think these will work. I think I will try a couple of the 2's and see how they work. Great tip, folks!
> 
> Thanks!
> Steve


There is a diagram on the website that says good to 1/4" so you're probably ok. I think it was Drs Smith and Foster site. Good luck!


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Just had to tell you the changes since my Hydor Koralia power head which I got just a week ago. The dwarf chain sword that I have had in the previous "dead spot" of my tank has taken off. I had been trying to get a taller foreground plant to grow on that side for months. I replace the chain sword twice. I added blyxa there. Now since the power head blows around there the chain swords have tripled in leaves and not dead leaves. They seem blown so smitherenes - but I guess they like it! AMAZING!


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Just got my Hydor 1 today. The flow is good, but it's making a bit of noise at the moment. I think there's some air trapped in the pump still and am trying to get it out by tipping it up. Does anyone else using them find them slightly noisy? It sounds a bit like the impellor is rattling slightly.

I've put the flow director thing on at the moment, but may take it off soon. The CO2 mist is certainly well distributed now!


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Mine is completely silent. It rattled a little at start up but that was it. Maybe your guard is not snapped on all the way. It does say to get all air out of it.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Mine is still making a rattling noise. I think it might be CO2 bubbles collecting in it. At the minute though it's almost being drowned out by the Juwel internal filter which is making a droning noise! My new tank is not popular at the moment!!! It's a shame as the flow is perfect.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted by hoppycalif View Post
> No, I'm not going to use the jet output. I'm going to use this: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...0&pcatid=14680





> Originally Posted by greenfish View Post
> I installed one of these today on the output from my xp3 on my 55. My circulation is definitely increased. I placed it at one end with it angled slightly upward. I can see the surface movement all the way on the other side of the tank. I also notice more movement throughout the tank at all water levels. I don't know what this will do to my co2 but I will keep a close watch on my drop checker over the next few days.





> I haven't had time to install mine yet, but your experience gives me hope that this will be a big improvement for me too. I think I will leave the powerhead out to see if I really need it with this change.
> __________________
> Hoppy


Just to follow up: I have the little spray fitting in use now on my Filstar XP3 outlet, and it has been there for about a month. It is working great! It is in the rear corner, aimed at the opposite front corner, is located near the water line, so it ripples the water surface a little, and the return is near the bottom in the same corner where the outlet is. I added a powerhead this weekend, to get more water movement, now that the plants are growing more. At this point I am very delighted with this little fitting.


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