# Lighting for 10 gallon high tech



## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Hey all,

Starting up a high tech 10 gallon with pressurized co2, ferts, etc. I'm setting up the 10g because i'll be going to college next year. I've tried to use cfl's on smaller tanks before with mixed results, so i'm looking for advice on this one. There will be a lot of ground cover plants in the tank (H.C., glosso, eleocharis) so i want to go with the best lighting option possible. 

Luckily, i'm going diy on this and designing an ADA Solar 1-like pendant so i have more freedom with options and sizing. I'd prefer not to use fluorescent tubes, but CFL's and the other fluorescent screw in bulbs are still open as options.

Have been looking into small end metal halide fixtures (obviously i'd mount it pretty high over the tank to avoid too much light), but haven't really found a good option.


----------



## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

AHSupply has 1x36w and 2x36w CF kits that will need an enclosure.
http://www.ahsupply.com/36-55w.htm

I used an Orbit 2x40w CF fixture over a 20" 15g. You can get Current USA 40w and 32w 6700K/10,000K square pin CF's for it. ADA makes a square pin 36w 8000K CF that will work in it. Coralife has 6700K and 10,000K square pin 28w CF's. Each bulb has a separate ballast and it has white lunar lights. Here's one on ebay. It isn't mine, though:
http://cgi.ebay.com/20-2x40W-Orbit-...467?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb1c8152b

The are 70w HQI fixtures that you can hang.


----------



## neilshieh (Jun 24, 2010)

why not cfl? well its a lot easier and cheaper... i just took 2 18 watt cfl bulbs (daylight) wired sockets and also bought this 8 watt t8 flourescent light strip from walmart for 8 bucks. this gives me 44 watts. although you can add a 23 watt or 26 watt for better light, the setup i had was good enough for glosso.


----------



## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

The only problem i have with cfl's is that i've grown wayy too much algae because of them. Now granted many other things were wrong, but i'm just trying to diversify my tastes you might say. I will probably end up going with CFL's however 

http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/pro...=1756&osCsid=7b61a4658434c490e0056915df461777

Anyone know what kind of bulb goes in that fixture? Standard or MH?


----------



## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

It doesn't have a ballast for MH. Must be std then.


----------



## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

sigh... got my hopes up haha. Sounds like i'm going to end up going with cfl's. I'd prefer to use a higher end kind of light (mh, sodium, etc) but can't find any of low wattage for a good price..


----------



## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Good news! I found some reflectors with the mogul socket locally. 3 for $25!

I also found a guy selling 150 watt metal halide ballasts for $25, with retail of $160-$190.

Here's the link to both: Fixture / Ballasts

Now, seeing how this is for a 10 gallon tank, i'm sure that 150 watts would be overkill. What wattage should i be looking for for ballasts and bulbs. Could i use a lower wattage mh bulb on a 150 watt ballast?


----------



## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

The MH bulbs and ballasts have to match or kaboom.

That 2x40w Orbit fixture went for $15.50.


----------



## TAB (Feb 7, 2009)

flashbang009 said:


> Good news! I found some reflectors with the mogul socket locally. 3 for $25!
> 
> I also found a guy selling 150 watt metal halide ballasts for $25, with retail of $160-$190.
> 
> ...


I put a 400 watter over a 10... I had sps growth like you would not beleave, 2-3 gallons of evap a day too 

you must use the bulb the ballest was designed to light.


----------



## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Left C said:


> The MH bulbs and ballasts have to match or kaboom.
> 
> That 2x40w Orbit fixture went for $15.50.


That answers my question haha.

$15.50!!!! WOW. Although there's $25 shipping...



TAB said:


> I put a 400 watter over a 10... I had sps growth like you would not beleave, 2-3 gallons of evap a day too
> 
> you must use the bulb the ballest was designed to light.


HOLY COW!!! I can't imagine that... I think i read for a 400W that it's minimum height over the ground was 20ft? hahahah

Still looking for ballasts and bulbs. Thinking of doing one, maybeeee two. I'll only do 2 if i find a 50 watt, but more likely i'll do 1 70W.

Any other links to possible options would be appreciated!


----------



## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Why must there be so many options.

Found a pc fixture here: http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/product_info.php?cPath=71_74&products_id=1565

Not a bad price, my only concern is if it will have enough of a spread?

EDIT: Catalina aquarium's has a very good DIY service. They can custom build fixtures at a reasonable price. My plan at this point is to see if i can get them to send me the supplies for a DIY PC light fixture. I would buy one of theirs but I have 2 problems with them. For one, the light bulbs are too close for my liking. Secondly, I don't like how the ballasts are in the back of the fixture, which makes the bulbs closer.

For the fixture I'm currently planning, it'll utilize the design of the ADA SOLAR 1 with the parabolic curve as the top of the fixture. The curve will allow me to mount the ballasts above the bulbs, thus allowing more space for the actual bulbs. Once I have that straight all i have to figure out is how far apart I want the sockets of the bulbs to be. (See pic)

I'll start a DIY thread for the light once i get all of the parts in. However, i do need some input on how many pc bulbs to put in the fixture, and whether or not i should also use small cfl's. Again, i've attached a picture that shows my idea, and i'll start a DIY thread soon!


----------



## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

I found a good retrofit kit for 13W PC bulb. http://www.aquacave.com/13w-pc-ballast-retro-kit-394.html

The only problem i have with this kit is that I believe the socket is attached to the ballast, and i'm not sure how well this will work with my design posted above.

My other option is building from scratch and i've been finding all kinds of options, none of which are as cost effective as the kit though.

Oh the joys of DIY!


----------



## JustLikeAPill (Oct 9, 2006)

I voted LED because... It would be really neat.

You could always just have an external ballast like the Solar I uses ; ) it cuts down on heat and makes the unit lighter.


----------



## TAB (Feb 7, 2009)

LEDs are not up to _par_ yet


----------



## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

JustLikeAPill said:


> I voted LED because... It would be really neat.
> 
> You could always just have an external ballast like the Solar I uses ; ) it cuts down on heat and makes the unit lighter.


Well that's what i've been searching around for. Basically if I use that retrofit kit, i'll be limited in the light placement because the ballast is attached to the socket (I believe. Which SUCKS) and i'll have to mount 2 magnetic ballasts. However, buying the parts individually, with a 2 bulb electronic ballast (how it should really be done), would be about $25 more...

I found some nice LED's on ebay, it was a 12"x12" square of 225 LED's. Only problem i read was that the quality was poor.


----------



## S-KGray (Nov 29, 2008)

TAB said:


> LEDs are not up to _par_ yet


This might apply to the LEDs mentioned by flashbang009 here:



flashbang009 said:


> I found some nice LED's on ebay, it was a 12"x12" square of 225 LED's. Only problem i read was that the quality was poor.


But high power LED fixtures can produce much more PAR than is needed for planted tanks. Just read about all the reef guys growing corals with their DIY LED fixtures and the PAR numbers they are getting. There are also quite a few examples of DIY LED fixtures being used successfully on planted tanks.

I am in the process of building one myself, which is why I voted LED.


----------



## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Well i've been talking to the guys at Aquacave.com (who are very helpful btw), and unfortunately the ballast IS connected to the socket. This severely limits my options for mounting. I'm waiting to hear back about the space between the bulb and the ballast to see if I can make something work.



S&KGray said:


> But high power LED fixtures can produce much more PAR than is needed for planted tanks. Just read about all the reef guys growing corals with their DIY LED fixtures and the PAR numbers they are getting. There are also quite a few examples of DIY LED fixtures being used successfully on planted tanks.
> 
> I am in the process of building one myself, which is why I voted LED.


As for the LED's, the fixture i was originally looking at was this one. I'm sure it would be bright enough, and i'll be making a mount for it that i can adjust up and down. My concern is the quality (which the rep on the phone said hasn't been a problem), and the fact that the fixture is 12"x12" and the tank is 20"x10".

I don't really want to go the route of DIY LED's, but i'll look into it (again). Any recent links to DIY threads would be appreciated..

Other thoughts?


----------



## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Sighh... the idea of a DIY led panel is becoming more and more appealing. Why must there be so many options? haha.

Been looking on dealxtreme.com at parts, and http://socalaquascapers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3990 For info.

The only thing i'm not sure about is which led's to pick and how many. There are some AWESOME led's in terms of lumens (350 Lumens per!) that i could use, i just don't know how many of what kind to put over a 10 gallon.

At this point i'm looking at possibly 8 led's on an aluminum panel, heatsinks from an old computer or something, and an led driver. At around $4-5/led, and a $15 driver, it might not be too bad!

Anyone's advice from experiences with diy led would be appreciated.


----------



## TAB (Feb 7, 2009)

S&KGray said:


> This might apply to the LEDs mentioned by flashbang009 here:
> 
> But high power LED fixtures can produce much more PAR than is needed for planted tanks. Just read about all the reef guys growing corals with their DIY LED fixtures and the PAR numbers they are getting. There are also quite a few examples of DIY LED fixtures being used successfully on planted tanks.
> 
> I am in the process of building one myself, which is why I voted LED.


I have yet to see some one growing SPS with LEDs. Infact most people that had MH at some point end up going back as they did not like the growth they are getting.


----------



## S-KGray (Nov 29, 2008)

TAB have you seen this?
The LED results and reference thread

Plus, to grow plants, you need nowhere near the PAR needed for growing SPS.

flash:
Designing and Building a LED Fixture


----------



## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

I read through half of that link you posted, and i'm confused beyond words. It's all electrical speak, and i'm no electrician. What i'm mainly confused about is that the link i posted the guy used no resistors, just a driver and led's. The link you posted the guy goes through all kinds of resistor ideas to get the job done. When are the resistors and circuit boards needed and when aren't they? Does it have to do with the type of LED's or the driver or what?


----------



## S-KGray (Nov 29, 2008)

He also discusses DIY drivers so maybe that's where you got lost? There are commercial drivers available so you don't have to worry about creating a circuit board, etc for a DIY driver.

Here is another link:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/81975-attempting-diy-led-fixture-part-2-a-4.html#post914884


----------



## S-KGray (Nov 29, 2008)

There are also a couple of gigantic LED threads with a lot of info, one on reefcentral and one on nanoreef.

If you want I can post a link to them.


----------



## TAB (Feb 7, 2009)

Yes I have read that link, and just about all the LED threads or RC. I've yet to see any one post anything other then thier "IMO" No, one has had them long term at this point as well.

Some one needs to take 2 frags from the same colony, put them in the same tank, on opposite sides, 1 LED the other halide.


----------



## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

The link i posted earlier showed great results after using LED's on a smaller pt. 

I need an opinion on what LED's to go with. I'm thinking 10 LED's. My choices at this point i think are: Cree P4 or Q2-Q5, Seoul P4, or Cree MC-E.

Anyone have any advice about which one, and a matching driver? I'm fine with it being too bright because i can raise it up over the tank more. I'd like to get this nailed down soon due to the sometimes long shipping times from dealExtreme.com


----------



## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Well i think i've decided to go with 10 Q2's. I chose 10 because i can get this driver for a really good price, and would prefer not to have to buy another.

I'm leaning towards the Q2's because of the guy in the original thread i linked. He used 13 over an 18 gallon and got great growth so i figure 10 over a 10 gallon would be fine. If anyone knows of any drivers that can handle more volts for a decent price I'd appreciate links for them.

I plan on running the LED's at 1A. The other thing I'm trying to find is a good heatsink. Checked heatsinksusa.com but would like to find some around for cheaper.

EDIT: Going to build my own heatsink. Going to use the "addition" method mentioned here.


----------



## S-KGray (Nov 29, 2008)

Aluminum channel for your heatsink might be easier and still cheap.

Running Cree XR-E LEDs at 1A is okay, but that is their rated max current and might shorten their life. Plus their forward voltage increases with higher current, around 3.7V per LED at 1A. The driver you linked says 30-36V, you would need a different driver for 10 LEDs at 1A or drop to 9 LEDs.

I recommend running the XR-E LEDs at 670mA with this driver. You could run 9-12 LEDs with that driver at a much safer current (for the LEDs).


----------



## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

S&KGray said:


> Aluminum channel for your heatsink might be easier and still cheap.
> 
> Running Cree XR-E LEDs at 1A is okay, but that is their rated max current and might shorten their life. Plus their forward voltage increases with higher current, around 3.7V per LED at 1A. The driver you linked says 30-36V, you would need a different driver for 10 LEDs at 1A or drop to 9 LEDs.
> 
> I recommend running the XR-E LEDs at 670mA with this driver. You could run 9-12 LEDs with that driver at a much safer current (for the LEDs).


I thought that by the driver not having enough voltage for the LED's, the LED's just wouldn't get as much power. Guess not. The only reason i wanted to go with the 1A driver was for brightness sake. After seeing that one you posted, i'll go with that and add...2 LED's? (to make up for lost brightness). Do you recommend lenses or optics, and if so what angle?

DIY heatsink anyone? I obtained a radiator from a local shop who we're good friends with, and i'll use the aluminum interior of the radiator as a heatsink. I can cut it to any dimensions, and have plenty to work with! Fun stuff.


----------

