# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Leaves edges melting kind of?



## Dojo (Feb 2, 2003)

Some of the leaves on my plants are turning a little pale/yellow, and one of the plants edges of the leaves are turning limp; soggy; melting i guess.

Wondering which nutrient they are lacking? CO2, PMDD. but im new and not sure when I should dose PMDD again? 

Magnesium Sulfate? Potassium sulfate maybe? Iron? Calcium? what are they telling me? lol

thanks


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## Dojo (Feb 2, 2003)

Some of the leaves on my plants are turning a little pale/yellow, and one of the plants edges of the leaves are turning limp; soggy; melting i guess.

Wondering which nutrient they are lacking? CO2, PMDD. but im new and not sure when I should dose PMDD again? 

Magnesium Sulfate? Potassium sulfate maybe? Iron? Calcium? what are they telling me? lol

thanks


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## nino (Oct 2, 2004)

Could you please give more details :
Tank size:
How old is the tank?
Lighting:
CO2:
pH, GH and KH
Nitrate:
PO4:

What have you beed dosing?

The reason I ask is because it could be a combination of a few deficiencies.


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## Dojo (Feb 2, 2003)

Originally posted by ninob:
Could you please give more details :
Tank size: *130gal*
How old is the tank?
* Plants went in a week ago, tanks been up 2 1/2 yrs*
Lighting: * 2x96 CP [moderate light plants] *
CO2: * Pressurized - 15 - 20ppm *
pH, GH and KH

*pH: 6.8 KH: 4 Gh: not tested*

Nitrate: *10ppm*
PO4: * Not tested *

What have you beed dosing?

* Magnesium Sulfate, Potassium Sulfate, Flourish about a week ago now

Plants were growing great, why im think I just need to does PMDD again. Just not sure if I should dose the same amount or if its just lacking one of the products i have.*

The reason I ask is because it could be a combination of a few deficiencies.[/QUOTE]


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## 2la (Feb 3, 2003)

Likely if all the other plants are doing fine, then the new plants are just shedding old leaves and growing new ones to adapt to your conditions.


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## nino (Oct 2, 2004)

Yeah, it's hard to tell exactly since the plants are pretty new as 2la said. You can always dose KNO3 and PO4 seperately. You don't have to mix PMDD formula. 

What kind of plants are having those symptoms right now?


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## Dojo (Feb 2, 2003)

The coffeefolia leaves edges are turning slightly darker, mushy, wilty lookin. 

The Baby tears are lookin darker brown, but could just be dust on the leaves. It's hard to tell. IT's still growing fast. 

Besides that, everything seems fine, but im no expert. I dont even have a clue what to expect. So anything that doesnt look right alarms me.


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

baby tears is really really sensitive...i've had it brown on me when there's too much phosphate, and when there's a toxicity, it's always the first to die. then, i do a water change to dilute the stuff wahteever it is and it grows again.


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## Tonka (Mar 20, 2004)

I have the same symptoms as Dojo (mature leaves melting - becoming parchment-like) but only on swords. These potted plants were planted only 10 days ago. The tank tests (Hagen) zero for nitrate, phosphate, and iron. I am dosing the recommended maximum with Flourish. Only 15% of the 1 inch/gal maximum bioload. No water changes yet. Some hair and "fuzz" algae. 

What recommenations do you fellas and fellerettes have?


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## nino (Oct 2, 2004)

Dojo, just leave them alone. They've been in the tank for a week only. Regarding be baby tears, I think it's just diatom that covers the leaves. The new growth should be clear of those. 

Tonka, overdosing Flourish can cause hair algae bloom. You can't just follow the direction. All tanks are different depending on type of plants, lighting, how densely planted and how established the tank is. Most of my tanks couldn't take full dosage of Flourish until 5 months old or hair algae kicks in.


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## Dojo (Feb 2, 2003)

ninob,

I just got back from backpacking trip. I have a lot of (A LOT) experience with Diatoms. The problem has escelatet bit and the edges of the leaves arent dieing, it is diatoms. BUT WHY? Im not dosing phosphates. 

And it is Diatoms on the baby tears for sure, just powder coating the leaves. This is new to me, since my experience with the microscopic little crustaceans is they attach to the glass first? Why now, and why the leaves of the plants?

I'll do a P04 test tonight to see if for some weird reason the levels are HIGH. If so its off to get some phos-zorb (worked before). Unless you guys have some suggestions?

In the past it was a 4 - 5 month phase. I'd really love to not relive it! heh

Desperate!


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## nino (Oct 2, 2004)

I don't think it's phosphate. I usually have the same diatom problem in the first 3 weeks at least. During initial planting, the plants those suffer the most are the slow growing one. In your case is the Coffetalia.

In my experience, diatom algae is the easiest, most harmless algae to deal with. The temporary imbalance in a newly planted tank cause them to bloom. If you add more fast growing plants, your tank will reach the balance faster and they'll be gone. My favorite move is to float wisteria and remove them after all the algaes are gone. Another way is to get many otos. They do a good job cleaning diatom from leaves.

Maybe this will make you feel better. Take a look at the last tank I set up (page 1 & 2) http://www.msnusers.com/webnino/30glhexagonjournal.msnw?Page=1

All of those algaes came out when PO4, ammonia, nitrate were all at 0. I didn't do anything except water changes every 5 days and added floating plants (wisteria). All the algae cleared up by themselves after 5 weeks.


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## Tonka (Mar 20, 2004)

Ninob and Dojo,

I cut back on Fluorish, and my otto army has eaten back all the crud except for hair algae. I am calling in the SAE's, red cherry shrimp, and Amano shrimp who promised to parachute in by Wednesday latest and get cracking on the long stuff right away.

PO4, NH3, NO2, NO3, and Fe still test zero, with incredibly rapid growth of cabomba and water sprite. Even the glosso is filling in to make the checkerboard from planting 16 days ago indiscernable.

I have read alot over the past few days from posts here that the concept of limiting phosphate has come and gone. But it must still have some utility as a tool - like UV sterilization - that can be helpful in some situations.

I have to resist trying too many things at the same time and instead try to learn what works and what I just think (hope?) works.


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## nino (Oct 2, 2004)

Tonka, if you take a look at the link I gave Dojo, you can see how bad my hair algae was. They grew as long as 6" and covered everything. From my experiences on setting up 3 tanks before, the best thing I could do is wait and be patient (which I admit very hard to do). If I were you, I would stop dosing Flourish totally until your tank is 6 weeks old or the hair algae is cleared. Fe test kit is useless and inaccurate. The best way to dose micro is to observe your plants.


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## Tonka (Mar 20, 2004)

Ninbob,

I turned the Fluorish spigot off. My hair algae is at least two feet long. I suppose I could just pick it off, but what's the challenge in that?

My bulk ferts etc. (CaCO3, CSM+B, Iron Chelate, KNO3, K2SO4, and MgSO4) arrive this week from Greg Watson. I will limit myself to making stock solutions and calculating daily dosings that will start when the hair algae is gone. Will this take about a month? (judging from your pictures)


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## Dojo (Feb 2, 2003)

No hair algea here. (yet). I guess I'll just wait it out as you did. Thats what I did before when I had huge diatom problem. Patience is key. I'll just try and rub the crud off the leaves.

It's not heavily planted by any means. I dont have enough $ to do that yet. Hoping to just propogate what I got as much as I can.


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## nino (Oct 2, 2004)

Dojo, 
When setting up a tank next time, the key is to have a lot of stem plants in the beginning. Aquascaping can come second after your tank is established. You don't have to spend a fortune on plants in the beginning. As I said, my favorite starter plant is wisteria. I bought 2 bunches from Petsmart (less than $5), floated some and plant the rest. That plant doesn't grow right away like other stem plants. But once they grow, they really grow fast and suck up all the nutrients to get the tank balance. 

Tonka, you may not need the additional chelated iron for a while. After the hair algae is gone, just use Plantex (I also use that). If you add additional chelated iron, the hair algae will kick right back in with no mercy. Once you see the hair algae started to slow down, you could dose KNO3 right away (5ppm). Even some phosphate is fine (0.2ppm) if your tank has 0 PO4. But never dose Plantex nor flourish until all the hair algae dissapear. After it's all cleared and you start dosing plantex, you may want to up the nitrate and PO4 dosing. But make sure you start with very low dosage of Plantex.


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## Dojo (Feb 2, 2003)

hmm, well I got low to moderate light plants since Im half way to high light (2x96) .. if lighting didnt cost a damn fortune I'd have 4x96 already. But I dont have another $200 after the near $500 I've spent recently on this tank.

So... Wisteria? Is that Watersprite? Same thing?


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## nino (Oct 2, 2004)

They are actually 2 different plants but both look alike and have similar characteristic. So either one would work for you. Not all low to medium light plants are slow growing. I grew Wisteria very well under 1.5 wpg also. Bacopa Monieri or Moneywort also can survive under low lighting and grow quite fast.


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## Tonka (Mar 20, 2004)

Thanks ninob, I will do as you say and hold off iron and traces until the hair algae is gone. BTW my 9 Amano's and 4 red cherry shrimp disappeared into the foliage, not to be seen after hours of observation. 40 bucks vanished - like Las Vegas!

Tonka


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