# Anyone use this CO2 regulator before?



## flashk1021 (Dec 21, 2006)

Hi, All

Is there anyone here using AQUARIUMPLANTS.com's CO2 regulator and comments? Here is the link

AQUARIUMPLANTS.COM's Co2 Regulator

Thank you.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

I'm not using that exact regulator but I am using something very close. The ones that I build.

The only problem I have with their version is the bubble counter mounted on the needle valve. The port on that needle valve use 10-32 threads which are really small threads. And they don't take a lot of mechanical stress. I can see where a pet or child gets into the area and tugs on the CO2 line from that bubble counter. You have a huge leverage point there that can easily bend or break those 10-32 threads.


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## flashk1021 (Dec 21, 2006)

Thank you Rex for your information. 

I also found there is one more difference between your version and theirs. You do have a needle valve sitting on a low pressure regulator (from the picture on your site). Is the low pressure regulator a necessary thing to prevent end of tank dump happening? Actually I don't quite understand your explanation on LPR --- ".....So, set your main regulator working pressure to about 10-12 psi. Open the LPR up about 7-8 turns. Now adjust the flow rate with your needle valve as close as you can. You can now use the LPR to fine tune the bubble rate.... " As you mentioned before, one turn of LPR is 2.7 psi, so 7-8 turn open is about 19 - 22 psi, which is higher than working pressure (10-12 psi), but how that gonna help to fine tune the flow, I thought LPR outlet pressure should be less than outlet of regular working pressure, am I right?

I don't have any clue about why end of tank dump actually happens as a beginner. Lots of posts on the net only tells me how to avoid it by checking weight or tank pressure (< 800psi). I thought as long as we set the regular output as 10 or 20psi, regular itself will help us adjust the output and stabilize it through the valve inside, maybe? I am really appreciated if someone could give me a more detail explanation. 

Thank you very much.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

I build regulators with and with out the LPR.

I wrote those directions because people were trying to run the LPR at about 5-8 psi and had the low pressure side of the regulator set to 20 psi and the LPR was exhausting the excess pressure. As far as I can tell the LPR acts as a bit of a expansion chamber for the CO2. And you can raise and lower the bubble rate by adjusting it. But if you get it too far below the working pressure it will exhaust the excess.

The reason EOTD happens is that single stage regulators (which most of us use due to cost) rely on the fact that there is going to be a fairly constant high pressure on the high pressure side. Once you run out of liquid CO2 the pressure drops and the regulator can't handle the change.

Most everyone has seen EOTD. They just don't realize it. If you are filling a cup with soda and everything is going well and all of a sudden the soda nozzle starts spitting and blowing soda every where you have experienced EOTD.


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## flashk1021 (Dec 21, 2006)

Thank you Rex.

So basically by using single stage regulator we can't avoid the EOTD problem anyway. By deploying a LPR the extra pressure during EOTD will be release through the small hole on LPR. One thing I still don't quite understand -- what is the difference between needle valve and LPR. Can we use needle valve only to prevent (or release) extra pressure and fine tune the bubble rate during EOTD? 

Thank you.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

I do not see any reason for having an "LPR" in the first place. All you need is a needle valve to prevent end of tank dump, and a needle valve is all you need to control the flow. All this talk borders on paranoia about end of tank dump. The only time it happens is when people use regulators not made for aquarium use without needle valves

I know this is turning into battle of the vendors, but since Rex got involved and plugged himself, you won't mind if I jump in! My "Ultimate injector" was designed to be competitive to aquariumplants regulator. Its all quality componants with a Clippard needle valve for about 40 dollars less. Practically speaking, I don't know why you would need anything more!

There... my shameless plug is finished! That said, I have never heard any complaints about APs regulator.


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## abnormalsanon (Jun 6, 2006)

I've had this regulator for about five months and have nothing bad to say about it. Set and forget!


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## jeff5614 (Feb 15, 2006)

I've had it for a couple of months with not problems so far.


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## flashk1021 (Dec 21, 2006)

Thank you both abnormalsanon and jeff5614, and you both mean Ultimate injector or AQUARIUMPLANTS.COM's Co2 Regulator works fine? Did you refill your tank and experience no EOTD during that period? 

Thank you Robert for your clarification. Would you mind telling me which brand you use for your regulator, solenoid and bubble counter, since there are not many information on your website.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

They are talking about APs. You can not have end of tank dump if there is a needlevalve on the regulator. Period. If Rex or anyone else can show me any documented case of end of tank dump with a REGULATOR that has a working needle valve, I will eat crow.

I use a german solenoid, EVI if that means anything to you. , JBJ bubble counter and check valve, Clippard needle valve. The gauges are large with large print so someone like me who has failing eyesight can see it no problem. It has a large working pressure knob that is easy to turn, from what I understand Ap's and Rex's requires a screw driver to turn the ajustment. It is an industrial grade regulator that is all brass except for the gauges. I don't remember the industrial brand name.

I have been selling regulators since 1999. I started with selling Aqua Medics regulator. It was a good, all purpose german made low pressure regulator with a fixed working pressure. Compared to other German regulators it was priced low. It had a decent needle valve. An inline solenoid was sold separate. It sold very well for its ease of use compared to those home made beer regulators that some people were selling, (thats where you heard a lot of horror stories about end of tank dump).

Then a couple years later the Milwaukee regulator came out, and then later the JBJ regulator, which was almost identical. For a while I continued to sell the Aqua medic based on quality, but eventually as always, people went for the unbeatable price of these mass produced chinese made units with the solenoid and bubble counter included, and in order to compete I joined the bandwagon and dropped Aqua Medic. Eventually, online sellers drove the price down so low even Milwaukee stepped in with price controls, but by this time people were starting to see problems with these regulators. So now we are coming full circle and people are starting to look more at higher priced regulators again. Seems rather ironic to me. I could easily sell mine for the same price as Rex or AP, but I am rather tired of the C02 regulator games. Its a fair price, I still make a good amount of money on it, so everyone should be happy.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Most people won't experience end of tank dumping if they are diligent with checking their regulator's pressure readings from time to time. That being said, the aquariumplants regulator is perfectly suited, and I've haven't heard of any negative things regarding this regulator. 

Other cheaper options that I found that work, are the Azoo, Milwaukee, and JBJ. From the three I chose the Azoo.

-John N.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Robert...

There have been a couple of people on other forums that have experienced EOTD with needle valves. A needle valve can not prevent a EOTD. It might moderate it. But you really need to know what occurs during the EOTD and how a needle valve works.

During a EOTD the pressure on the low side of the regulator can increase up to the maximum that the low side of the regulator allows. This can be an increase of up to 8-10 times what the regulator is set for. Since the needle valve is nothing more than a pressure drop device (raise the pressure on one side the amount of gas going though the valve goes up) raising the pressure in the amounts that can occur during a EOTD will cause a corresponding increase in bubble rate. And this can, will, and has killed fish.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

CO2 tank discharge disaster. - The Planted Tank Forum

How would you like that crow cooked Robert?


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Maybe I missed it Rex, but I havn't read anywhere in that thread where he says he actually has a needlevalve...

wait, I found it here is what he says



> Thanks for the explanations everyone. Basically you nailed the cause, the needle valve was in fact mostly open akin to not having one at all.


DUH!! THE NEEDLE VALVE WAS WIDE OPEN! I am passing the dish of crow back to you Rex, I hope you like it bloody and rare! :yo:


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