# Nitrates and Phosphates too high?



## artemism3 (May 21, 2005)

Hello!

I have been going through a battle with algae...originally BBA, now I have a fur like green algae on my manzanita and plants, along with green spots on the glass.

My concern is this, my nitrates get rather high..40+ppm and phoshates are 2ppm+ when I check them ( AP nitrate kit and Red Sea phospahte test ).

I dose 3/4 tsp of KNO3 3X/week
I dose 1/8 tsp of KH2PO4 3X/week
CSM+b 3X/week

I know these are high and I have had the nitrates test higher...maybe 80ppm ( color is confusing the higher it goes ), should I keep on dosing this schedule? Fish "seem" ok.

Other factors:
Lighting 4X65 Coralife on for 10hrs/day
Filtration Ehein 2215 and 2217
Pressurized Co2... I have this cranked up. Tap water is 8 ph, I have it dropped to 6.2ph.
KH is 10
GH is 4 ( using Equilibirium due to water softener ).

I "may" overfeed slightly as well 

Thanks for any advice!!

Jeremy


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

I would lengthen the light cycle to 12-14 hours per day. Add more plants to your tank, and remove the leaves of the plants with the fur algae. Remove any plants if they are too covered with the fur algae. A longer light cycle with more plants means that the plants will outcompete the algae for nutrients; the algae will starve to death. Have a little patience with it. Do your normal 5-10% water changes every week. That will also help. 

I have found that adding Trace Elements to my tanks has really helped with algae problems.

Green spot algae is always going to exist to some degree....sorry! However, it should only be found on the glass after a while. Follow what I suggested, and you shouldn't see it on any of your plants.

Hope it helps, dude!


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## artemism3 (May 21, 2005)

My tank is fairly heavily planted...I have a large carpeted area of B. Japonica in my 75gallon tank. 

I will remove the leaves and have been for awhile. Just worried that the levels I have tested will have an adverse effect on my fish...

BTW, water changes are done at 50% weekly.


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Just curious....have you tested your water supply for phosphate or nitrate levels...I know that some areas have higher phosphate levels. 

If that is true, then you are adding "fuel to the fire" by doing such large water changes every week. Fish foods also contain a ton of phosphate.

You could get some phosphoZorb, or something similar. How many fish do you have? You could try feeding them every other day for a while. If you are worried about nitrates, try some AmmoChips or a similar medium for removing it.

For sure, though, lengthening the light cycle will help you out! Keep me posted!


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Are you sure your nitrate kit is working properly? It's easy enough to prepare a standard solution and see if the test kit is in the ball park. Assuming it is correct, quit dosing nitrates as much as you are. Get them back down to the 15-20 range and your phosphates around 2-4. For me, I wouldn't increase the lighting time any, for me that's always been a sure recipe for more algae issues. 

If your pH/kh readings are correct, you have 190ppm CO2 there[smilie=c: ! I don't believe 40ppm of nitrate will affect your fish, however, 190ppm of CO2 wll. Something is off somewhere.


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

For me, increasing lighting time has always worked because it enables the plants in the aquarium to use up the nutrients available in the water and substrate. Algae growth is optimized in shorter lighting periods because the plants can't utilize the nutrients available, so the algae does instead. In fact, the worst algae problems I encountered happened when I was using about a ten hour photoperiod. Perhaps this is purely coincidental, however, when I researched on my own, most books I read had recommended the 12-14 hour photoperiod due to the above reasoning.

I know it sounds "backwards;" most people figure "the longer the lights are on, the more the algae will grow." However, it completely cleared up my algae problems. It is just a suggestion.


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## artemism3 (May 21, 2005)

Ok, I rechecked my tanks parameters and tap parameters.

KH is now 13 degrees
Ph in tank is 6.4

Ph in tap is 8.0

I have set aside a cup of tank water to "De-Gas" and let the Co2 escape to recheck the ph. I have had an issue with my tank water never equally my tap ph. Usually my tanks water after Co2 escape is around 7.2-7.4ph.

That is one thing that has driven me nuts!!! I have found nothing in my tank that would alter the ph, so I never could understand why the ph's of my tank and my tap never equalled.


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Well, your CO2 will bring the pH down, especially if you leave it ON during the night.


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

What I mean is that CO2 will combine with the hydrogen in the water to form carbonic acid. The carbonic acid in the tank water is what is bringing your pH down after degassing.


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## artemism3 (May 21, 2005)

Ok! That makes sense!

I also disconnect the Co2 at night. 

Even though I have a high Co2 level in tank, my fish aren't gasping for air...


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## Bob Vivian (Sep 10, 2004)

Throw away the test kits, especially the Red Sea. They are notorious for their inaccuracy.
The BBA and now the green fur algae, probably cladaphora, indicates to me _ low_nitrates. I know. That can't be true. I assure you that the cure for algae is almost always more, not less, ferts. I assure you.

It's like stepping off a cliff blindfolded. Increase your NO3 in small amounts in increments of two or three days at a time.
Grit your teeth and stay with it, no matter what happens, for a week or two. Mechanically remove what algae you can. The BBA will stop and then eventually recede. The "green fur" is more problematic. It may require traces. Do you dose with Flourish? Iron?

The green spot almost always indicates _low_ PO4. Gradually increase your PO4 dosing and the green spot will disappear. BTW, increasing PO4 will cause the plants to consume NO3 faster and in greater amounts. With the proper dosing ratio of PO4 to NO3 (1 to 3 in my case) you won't believe how much your NO3 will drop over the day. 

It is generally safe to say that algae is NOT caused by too much fertilization.

Oh. And I wouldn't increase your "lighting time" until you've got things in balance now. A longer photo period will force the plants to need more of an already short supply of nutrients. If you do leave the growing lights on longer you'll have to up your dosages. If you don't, you'll have a nice furry, black tank.

Higher ferts, within reason, will not have an adverse effect on your fish. 

Continue the 50% water changes weekly. This will reset your tank water parameters.

And you will notice, as the algae disappears, your plants will be thriving.

Bob


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

Which is a good reason not to leave it on during the night, you do not need it.

You need to clean the filters, the substrate(vacuum it if it's older than 1 year in 1/4 sections each week).

Then attack any algae on rocks, wood, glass etc. Clean things very well and then keep up 50% weekly or more water changes. What are using for pH measurement?

I'd stick with 10 hour light time. 
Generally , CO2 related issues are the main problem for folks.
We can know if the NO3/K/PO4/Fe/GH etc are fine by dosing routines, without any kit needed.

The CO2 is likely the cause here.
Since fish are fine, add a bit more slowly till they appear stressed then back off.

Do this carefully when you are going to be around, don't wonder off to work etc. 

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

A funny idea popped up in this post.

Carbonic acid does in fact lower pH. It does not stick around though if you allow water to 'degas'. The chemical reaction CO2 + H20 --> H2CO3 also works this way: H2CO3 --> CO2 + H2O. Once CO2 starts to escape into the atmosphere the 2nd reaction takes over and carbonic acid levels fall and the pH goes up.

I don't agree with all the ideas that I see on this forum (maybe I should -- I'm growing plenty of algae), but I agree that hobby-grade test kits are almost worthless. Maybe worse than worthless since they cause us to do exactly the wrong thing.

The only way to measure pH with any accuracy is a properly calibrated electronic pH meter. If you're off by 0.4 units by the drop, swish, and hold it up to the light method, your CO2 calculations can be WAY off.

There has been a lot of talk about the appropriate photoperiod lately. I'd say people are split 50/50 on the issue = nobody knows for sure.

Just my two bits......


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