# [Wet Thumb Forum]-More rocks



## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

I took another rock collecting trip today -- this one north into the Jemez Mountains. I can't think of a better way to spend a late summer Sunday in New Mexico.

Here







is a photo of the west face of Guadalupe Mesa, looking southeast. To keep things aquatic, there is a babbling stream (the Rio Guadalupe) that cascades out of a narrow canyon to the photographers left and flows along the foot of the mesa.

It was a pretty successful day for collecting rocks to use during my talk at the AGA convention. I'll use the rocks as examples of things that you don't want in your tank. Most of the rocks in the photo (all but the highest cliffs) are unsuited for use in aquariums.

Roger Miller

"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

I took another rock collecting trip today -- this one north into the Jemez Mountains. I can't think of a better way to spend a late summer Sunday in New Mexico.

Here







is a photo of the west face of Guadalupe Mesa, looking southeast. To keep things aquatic, there is a babbling stream (the Rio Guadalupe) that cascades out of a narrow canyon to the photographers left and flows along the foot of the mesa.

It was a pretty successful day for collecting rocks to use during my talk at the AGA convention. I'll use the rocks as examples of things that you don't want in your tank. Most of the rocks in the photo (all but the highest cliffs) are unsuited for use in aquariums.

Roger Miller

"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein


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## Guttboy (Jul 27, 2003)

Nice Picture Roger....were you going up Rt 4 to through San Ysidro? Lynette and I do that drive alot...very pretty scenery! Near Soda Dam there are some nice spots for driftwood too!

Mike

100Gallon/Rena Filstar XP3/Icecap660 with 4x4' Ge Aquarays/Flourite Gravel mix/Malaysian driftwood


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Mike,

The road up the Guadalupe takes off from highway 4 about 4 miles north of Jemez Pueblo. A couple hundred yards up from where I took that picture there are some tunnels where the road follows the stream through a narrow gorge. Above that the canyon opens back out again into a broader valley. There's some nice camping spots along the way. The road eventually makes it's way around by Fenton Lake and reconnects to highway 4. I didn't go much farther than the tunnels because they were grading the road. On a Sunday, no less.

I also went up 4 and stopped at Soda Dam for pictures (more rocks you don't want in your aquarium) and Battleship Rock where I picked up some more stones for the AGA auction.

I kept on 4 for a while east of Battleship Rock then cut south on Forest Road 10 to Ponderosa and back to Jemez Pueblo. I'd never been to Ponderosa before and looping back that way was *a lot* shorter than going down through Los Alamos. Some white-knuckle driving though.

Someday I'll figure out the route through Bland Canyon. I understand that after driving down that road someone may have to pry my fingers off the steering wheel







.

It's a very scenic drive. All told, I snapped 63 pictures on the day, and I didn't even get to Valle Grande or Bandelier!

Roger Miller

"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2003)

Roger,

Great view. After visiting Grand Canyon last month I can really relate how you feel. 

Any close up pictures of collected rocks ?


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Jay,

The Grand Canyon is the mother of all canyons. Others are beautiful but none are as awesome.

I did finally get around to taking some shots of collected rocks. This photo







shows an arrangement of stones from Battleship Rock. Technically, they are welded labilli tuff -- a fairly young volcanic rock with a violent origin. Chemically they are similar to granite, but much of the material in the rocks is actually obsidian-like glass. Compare to most rocks, these are very light -weight.

When I was in graduate school -- back near the dawn of the new age -- a friend of mine did her Master's thesis on these rocks. I remember ever since some of the sample she had and thought that similar rocks might be a good choice for aquariums.

I scrambled up a scree slope to the foot of Battleship Rock (I have a picture of that, too) to get these stones, then toted 9 of them back down the same slope in a backpack and both hands. I thought they would look great. When I got them home and showed them to one of my daughters her initial reaction was "they look like cement." I should have corrected her. No, they look like concrete.

Actually, not quite like concrete, and very close up they are more interesting. Just the same they aren't as striking as I thought the would be. Do ya'll have any impressions from these stones?

Roger Miller

"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein


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## marLe (Aug 23, 2003)

urm, can i ask where do u get the surface in which the rocks are lying on?

do u put the gravel directly on them?


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

marLe,

The rocks are just set up for the photo. Everything is set on top of a wooden box. I set some scrap wood on top of the box to provide different levels, then I covered it all with a green hand towel. The rocks are arranged at different levels.

I did use some of the same rocks in the "A days work" thread in the aquascaping and biotopes forum. In that case I; 1) layed down a thing layer of substrate on the bottom of the tank, then; 2) added some stones to support the larger rocks then; 3) covered the foundation stones with substrate material to fill in the open spaces then; 4) positioned the larger stones then; 5) filled in around the larger stones.

Roger Miller

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_"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein_


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## imported_Buck (Apr 23, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Do ya'll have any impressions from these stones?


I sure do... they are beautiful ! I am still lost on the cement or concrete descriptions...looks more like petrified wood to me, especially the piece in the right lower corner.

Its a Great find in my eyes Roger, I would love to find some stone like that here on the East Coast in Connecticut


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

I'm glad you like them Buck. You won't find anything like those rocks anywhere on the east coast. It does seem like Connecticut should offer opportunities to find other kinds of stones -- stones that would look great and work as well as these. It's just a matter of looking where they are.

Roger Miller

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_"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein_


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## imported_Buck (Apr 23, 2003)

There is definately no shortage of stone here Roger but I am not very confident in what stone is good for the tanks and what stone will wreak havoc with my water qualities.


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Buck,

There are five tests to see if a rock might wreak havoc with your water supply or do something else rude, crude or aquatically unacceptable.

1) Does it comes apart in your hands? If you can get it to crumble then you might not want it in your tank.

2) Does it look metallic? If it does,or if it has mineral grains in it that look metallic then you don't want it in your tank.

3) Does it taste salty? If so, you don't want it, but that seems unlikely in Connecticut.

4) Can you scratch it with a knife? I don't mean leave a little white mark, I mean actually gouge the stone. Rocks that are soft enough to scratch with a knife may cause problems in your tank. Micaceous rocks (slate, phyllite and schist) and glassy rocks (obsidian, pumice and tuff) should fail this test, but they are actually safe to use.

5) Does it fizz when you put a drop of 10% hydrochloric (muriatic) acid on the rock? If yes then you don't want it. This is a test for carbonate. If it fizzes it will also raise your KH and GH. If it doesn't fizz then scratch the surface and drop the acid on the scratched surface and see if that fizzes. Dolomite is a carbonate that sometimes passes the first test but the second test usually catches it. The hardness test also catches all common carbonate-bearing rocks.

For folks who live in the west, many rocks will fail the fizz test because of a carbonate coating on the rock. The coating can be removed by submerging the hole rock in 10% hydrochloric acid until the rock stops fizzing. After that treatment the rock needs to be soaked in water to remove the acid.

Roger Miller

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_"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein_


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## imported_Buck (Apr 23, 2003)

Thats a good testing regimen, Im going to put that to use








As a matter of fact, tomorrow I am taking my quad for a ride up the road to a stream that my wife and eye passed today. There was an assortment of plants and a few nice stones in this stream that I would like to try.
This stream is absolutely beautiful with a nice display of healthy flowing sag's, patches of Marsilea q. and another plant that resembled watersprite.
Im bringing the Digital also, Ill post some photos for ya's...

I would love to put this stream in a wall of glass !


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## imported_Creature (Feb 6, 2003)

Roger, thanks for the description and picture of your drive to Ponderosa. I'm planning a camping trip next May to Canyon de Chelley in AZ and to El Moro, El Malpais, and Bandelier national monuments in NM. I'll make sure I take a drive through the Jemez mountains as well. Lots to see in that region! Too bad the trip from SFO is so darned long, though. My camping companion also gets the white knuckle syndrome when we're up in some high canyon walls. I won't tell him about it until we get there. He he he!


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Creature,

I've never been to Canyon de Chelley. I understand that it is breathtaking.

Given time you should not miss the Anasazi ruins at (remote) Chaco Canyon, which I think you could reach on the drive between Canyon de Chelley and El Morro. I love the area from Zuni to El Malpais. You might take an opportunity to see Enchanted Mesa and Sky City.

May is usually a very dry time of the year here, and in the now years-long drought it is becoming common for some forest areas to be closed in the spring and early summer because of fire danger. If your trip includes camping nights in forest areas (Jemez Mountains National Recreation Area, for instance) then you might want to have alternates planned ahead of time. There is less potential for closures if your visit is planned for early May rather than late May.

Roger Miller

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_"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein_


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## imported_Creature (Feb 6, 2003)

Thanks for the tip. Last spring I was at Chiricahua national monument in SE AZ. Also very beatiful and dry. Fires were permitted only in the elevated grills. Not the same as in a pit. An alternate route to Bandelier would be through Santa Fe. Is that route nice too?

I got a lot of my information from the NPS park info website and from GalllupNM.org. Acama sky city and Chaco canyon nat'l hist. park made it on my itinerary as did Aztec ruins national monument and Monument Valley in Navajoland. Is the Petroglyphs national monument in Albuquerque worth the visit? I collect all the national park pins, guides, magnets, postcards, t-shirts, etc., the list keeps growing.

And, yes, I actually have an itinerary, 9 months before the trip. Part of the fun of going on these camping/road trips is planning and visiting the related websites of the places I want to visit, to ensure I don't miss anything cool. Some day soon I should have a website with a bunch of cool photos of all my trips, hobbies and aquarium stuff


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Last spring I was at Chiricahua national monument in SE AZ. Also very beatiful and dry. Fires were permitted only in the elevated grills. Not the same as in a pit.


My assistant camped in the Chiricahua last Christmas and really enjoyed it. She's a biologist and the huge variety of wildlife and plants there kept her entertained. In December there were no restrictions.



> quote:
> 
> An alternate route to Bandelier would be through Santa Fe. Is that route nice too?


No, not really. But it is easy. Downtown Santa Fe/Canyon Road area is pretty pleasant, and the drive up the canyon on the way up to Bandelier is scenic, but brief and not that much to comment on. A lot of the rest of that road is a tour of Indian casinos. They would be happy for your business.

TeePee Rocks Nat. Mon. and Bland Canyon offer a back-road alternative route between Albuquerque and Bandelier.

I should be clear, I think. New Mexico 4 through the Jemez NRA would not be closed. If they close the forest then you will still be able to drive through on the highway and maybe even day hike, but not camp.

While at Bandalier, don't miss the hike down to the lower falls. It's a very nice and relatively short walk. The park area south of the main ruins is all wilderness scattered with many more ruins. There are several long hikes available in the area. But again, if the fire danger is too high then the back country trails may be closed.



> quote:
> 
> I got a lot of my information from the NPS park info website and from GalllupNM.org. Acama sky city and Chaco canyon nat'l hist. park made it on my itinerary as did Aztec ruins national monument and Monument Valley in Navajoland. Is the Petroglyphs national monument in Albuquerque worth the visit?


Aztec Ruins probably isn't something to go out of your way for. It's a small and (I understand) very disuptable reconstruction. It isn't far from there up to Mesa Verde, which would give you a much better experience. Petroglyphs Nat. Monument was set up to preserve some petroglyphs that were important to the local native population but endangered by urban expansion. It also includes some sites that were included as points of interest. It's something to visit if you're in town for a while. If you want to see petroglyphs then there are better sites all over the southwest.



> quote:
> 
> Some day soon I should have a website with a bunch of cool photos of all my trips, hobbies and aquarium stuff


We can only look foreward to that.

Roger Miller

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_"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein_


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