# Aquarium Chillers



## JG06 (Nov 5, 2006)

Three questions on aquarium chillers:

What size would I need to chill a 28 gallon NPT to ~75* when the ambient air temp outside the aquarium is ~85*?

Do the Ice probe 50W nano aquarium chillers work?

What makes an aquarium chiller so bloody expensive????

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To give you all a little background: since A/C costs money and I live in Texas, I don't run the A/C during the day while I'm not at home. This led to the downfall of my aquarium hobby because the interior of my home gets too warm during the day to support an aquarium. Now however, I want to set up a new aquarium and do a NPT and have a need to keep it cool without cooling the entire house. My choices are to either buy a chiller or fab something up. I'm leaning toward fabing something out of an old dorm fridge or small window A/C unit because I pick one of those up ~25% the cost of a new 1/10 HP chiller. However, in lieu of making something that may or may not work, I would just as soon buy the proper tool for the job and be done with it. 

Could someone sent me straight on aquarium chillers? 

Thanks all,

Jason


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

I've always wondered why not just use a dorm fridge, drill holes in the top for the hoses to pass through, and stick an XP2/3 in there. I dont see how this wouldnt work, you could even seal the holes if desired. Just setting the refridgerator on it's warmest setting would be cool enough to keep things chilly... 

I also wonder why they are so freaking expensive.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

1) http://www.jbjlighting.com/prod_chiller_size.asp
1/10hp. ~$400 used. ~$700 new....for JBJ chillers
2) The IceProbe wil NOT work.

You can get some clip-on fans and point them at the water. Works amazingly well actually. 

Even though a mini-fridge would use less electricity, I don't think it'd be as efficient as an aquarium chiller, which would require it to work longer...and in the end, you're spending the same amount to lower the temperature of your water.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~cap/raid/chillers/dormfridge/index.html


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## aquariageek (May 27, 2006)

I still live with the 'rents so it is up to them when to turn the A/C on... 

Anyways, before they did, I set up a small fan up at the end of my two tanks, opened the lids, and let it blow _across_ the surface of the water. The temperature in the tanks dropped a few degrees within a few hours (that was precise  ).

Point being, fans have worked for me, as longs as the air is blowing parallel to the surface of the water.

Just my $0.02.


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## dhavoc (Mar 17, 2006)

fans work great, but you have to put up with evaporation, and your going to drop at most 5-7F from your room temperature. you stated your looking for a 10F delta, so a chiller is going to be your only option. i use one of those 1/20hp units on my 30 breeder and it keeps the temp at 75F when the room temp is high 80's (office ac is off on weekends). in hindsite, though, a 1/15hp or 1/10hp would be your best bet ~400 on ebay. though the reliability is not going to be the same as say a teco or similar. stay away from thermal, i have several of those 50w iceprobes and they only work on say a 2.5-5g at most.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

If the peak home temperature is 85F, then the tank's temperature should not exceed 82F. Have you used a calibrated thermometer to check the tank's temperature? Cheap thermometer can be off by 4F.


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## turbomkt (Mar 31, 2004)

How do you determine a tank shouldn't exceed 82º F with ambient temperature at 85º F? Starting water temperature should be the same as ambient air. Add to it any heat from filter and lights, and you're going up, not down.

No?


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## JG06 (Nov 5, 2006)

Furballi,

85* is probably the mean daily temp inside my house in August. It might go higher, but it seldom gets lower. I'm not sure _exactly_ how hot it gets in here during the day when I'm gone, but it will get hot enough to kill three green sunfish and that's plenty hot. I'm just trying to prevent the aquarium from getting that warm again...

Thanks,

Jason


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## dhavoc (Mar 17, 2006)

85 ambient plus heat from your lights, filter, etc means your tank will be probably closer to 90 if not more. most modern planted tank lights are like mini-space heaters. if you really want to be sure, pickup one of those memory thermometers with a remote sensor from any appliance or HVAC supplier or e-bay. it will record the highest temp in its flash memory. i use several on my tanks and that was how i determined a i needed a chiller for almost every tank in my office.


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

I have a tank that gets up to 83f and the a/c is on auto all day long set at 76f, too many variables to say what's right and wrong. 

On topic....I think the cheapest way to do this is to set up fans across the top....see how that works first before dumping into a chiller.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

turbomkt said:


> How do you determine a tank shouldn't exceed 82º F with ambient temperature at 85º F? Starting water temperature should be the same as ambient air. Add to it any heat from filter and lights, and you're going up, not down.
> 
> No?


Let's assume that the peak room temperature in the afternoon is 85F for about 2 hours. The house should be around 75F in the morning. I would expect the tank's temperature to be around 78F after 12 hours of A/C (it takes 1 calorie to raise 1cc of water 1C). If all windows are closed in the morning, then the house should see 85F between 2 and 3 pm.

Why would anyone want to run the light during period of peak thermal load? *Non-circulating air is an excellent insulator*. The average filter will add an insignificant 2 watts of "thermal heat" to the water column. There will always be a delta of 2 to 3F between the tank's temperature and the air temperature. It will take a minimum of 10 hours to achieve an isothermal condition between the water in the aquarium and the ambient air.

The proper strategy is to seal the room in the morning by closing all windows. If the peak room temperature does not exceed 85F, then you can expect to see a peak water temperature around 82F. The A/C should come ON around 4 or 5 pm. That's when you want to turn on the light. There is no reason to run the light longer than 4 to 5 hours per day.

I've seen peak temperature of 92F in my house when the ambient air is 101F. The maximum tank temperature is 86F (50 gal). Larger tank will result in slower change in temperature. You can also cover the entire tank with a fluffy blanket (dead air pockets). That's the most effective way to slow down heat flux from the room into the tank.

There is NO WAY the *true* tank temperature can be 83F if the house is at 76F or lower 24/7. We're assuming that the heater is OFF and the light and pump are the only sources of heat. I have two 4' T8s on top of the glass cover. A 1" air gap is maintained along the entire length of the aquarium for gas exchange. The light will elevate the tank's temperature by 0.3F (50 gal). It takes a tremendous amount of energy to raise a large volume of water by 1F.

Let's say you have a 50 gal tank (about 45 gal of water and 5 gal of rock). It would take 170343 calories to raise the tank's water by 1C. To elevate this tank's temperature from 76F to 83F, it would require 664338 calories, or 774 Watts (185 calories/second).


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## turbomkt (Mar 31, 2004)

furballi said:


> Let's assume that the *peak room temperature* in the afternoon is 85F for about 2 hours.


Ummm...I'd like to point out that JG06 doesn't say this is the peak temperature.



JG06 said:


> Furballi,
> 
> 85* is probably the *mean daily temp* inside my house in August. It might go higher, but it* seldom gets lower.*


furballi,
Not all houses are the same. You're also assuming a much lower starting temperature, I think (see quote). If the typical temperature in a house is 85, doesn't that mean the water will "start" at that temperature for its own average? I'll admit that the temperature of the water won't swing as much as the air temp will, but it should end up at the same average temperature, right?

Then we add lights. I've got a cover over one of my tanks - it's a 50g corner tank with about 180W of light in the hood. I can say it _will _raise my tank temperature at least 3 degrees. I've watched it. I also know that propping the hood up to get some air flow through the hood will reduce the temperature increase. My 55g and 10g do not see these temperature raises, but they don't have hoods, either. They have Coralife and Orbit fixtures on legs.



furballi said:


> The proper strategy is to seal the room in the morning by closing all windows. If the peak room temperature does not exceed 85F, then you can expect to see a peak water temperature around 82F. The A/C should come ON around 4 or 5 pm. That's when you want to turn on the light. There is no reason to run the light longer than 4 to 5 hours per day.


I agree about closing windows. Closing the windows in the morning keeps my house under 82 during the day until about 3-4pm when we turn on the A/C. Why so early? Not everyone's house is empty all day. I have a wife and four kids that don't leave the house except for errands. If we're feeling really froggy, we'll turn the A/C on at 11am when the temperature in the house gets close to 78. Oh yeah...with my wife and kids home all day, lights turn on about 10am so they can enjoy the tanks. They are even used for education. I'd argue that my house is active 16 hours a day, most days.

I also don't live in Texas. Nacogdoches, TX does not look like an area that is very cool in the summer months. Maybe A/C is even on at night, so the lowest temperature in the house is 76? Or maybe they don't have solar power like I do, and run things a little warmer like 78-80. There's your starting temperature, with probably 12-14 hours of the day at a higher temp.

-----------------------------------------------

JG06,
One thing I would recommend is maintaining a slightly lower temperature during the day. It can cost more to cool a house once you get home than it would be to keep it a little cooler throughout the day. This is an easy enough thing to test. Monday morning read your electric meter. Wednesday morning read it again. Figure out how much electricity you used. Wednesday and Thursday set your A/C to maintain 80 degrees during the day (Or whatever temperature is 2-3 degrees above your normal A/C setting). Check your meter Friday morning. How much was used Weds and Thurs? This is assuming a constant outside air temperature which shouldn't be too far off the mark in Texas.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

turbomkt said:


> Ummm...I'd like to point out that JG06 doesn't say this is the peak temperature.
> 
> furballi,
> Not all houses are the same. You're also assuming a much lower starting temperature, I think (see quote). If the typical temperature in a house is 85, doesn't that mean the water will "start" at that temperature for its own average? I'll admit that the temperature of the water won't swing as much as the air temp will, but it should end up at the same average temperature, right?
> ...


The OP asked about 85F ambient in the first post. And from the tone of the question, I doubt that there's anyone home during the daytime. Most older homes (less insulation) will remain 10F below ambient. Per weather.com, the average "high" summer temperature in TX is around 93F. Why set the thermostat at 80F when you can use fans at night to lower the house to 73F in TX? Again, do some research before you make erroneous assumptions.

By trapping the cold morning air in the house, the ambient indoor temperature should hit 80F around 12:15 pm, with peak temperature of 85F @ 2:45 pm (94F outside).

If your 180 watt light source raises 45 gal of water 3F, then light source is acting like a heater with very little light output. If you have a problem with the "hood" or are stuck with an inefficient transformer, then install a small 80 mm fan to provide adequate ventilation.

http://www.weather.com/weather/wxcl...ww.usatoday.com&cm_pla=WxPage&cm_ite=CityPage


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Average temperatures mean nothing.

If I sit in the same room as a NBA player our average yearly salary is going to be millions of dollars. But I'm not any richer.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

Rex Grigg said:


> Average temperatures mean nothing.
> 
> If I sit in the same room as a NBA player our average yearly salary is going to be millions of dollars. But I'm not any richer.


Only you would compare NBA salaries to statistical climatic changes. Lemme guess, you're in the GWB camp...global warming is a myth...follow the course...annual inflation is only 3%.


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## ianmoede (Jan 17, 2005)

Well this rapidly spun off topic. How bout them chillers?


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

Rex Grigg said:


> Average temperatures mean nothing.


I think what Rex means is that it is the extreme temperature days that will kill fish.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Is it crack or meth that is messing with your mind?

You gave an "average temperature" for summer in Texas. I gave an example of why averages don't mean a whole lot.

Then you spin that off into whether or not I believe in global warming. Not sure how that happened.

Global warming is a fact. But I don't believe that man causes it or can stop it. That's very conceited of us to think that.

BTW. I'm still waiting for you to come up with a source for Fabco NV55 valves for $10 each.


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Please stay on topic. There is absolutely no reason to take personal jibes at a poster simply because his opinion does not agree with your own.


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## JG06 (Nov 5, 2006)

ianmoede said:


> Well this rapidly spun off topic. How bout them chillers?


Gee guys...I didn't mean for things to get so off topic. I'll try the big fan thing and if that fails, I'll try something different. If all else fails, I'll pick up a 1/10hp chiller and go from there.

Thanks all for the wisdom and insight.

Jason


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