# Newbie: I completely screwed up my NPT :( HEEELP!



## SunnyBetta (Oct 18, 2006)

Hi, I'm a newbie here, and to fishkeeping and planted tanks too. Saw an example of a planted tank based on Diana Walstad's book and thought it was a good idea. Unfortunately I had the darnest time finding suitable materials such as potting soil...

I'd only found this site yesterday...wish I'd known of it sooner. You see, the potting soil I'm using now, contains 'plant food' for 8-9 months, and wetting agents. So far I've tried out a 2.5 gallon and 5 gallon planted attempt, there has always been a 0.4mg/l amount of Ammonia present in the tanks. The plants are fine, but I'm worried about the fish. So far only Ed the betta is in the 2.5 gallon, which also has an algae problem - a brownish film tank walls.

Uh yeah. Totally clueless on my end. I usually do better with pictures than words:








the 2.5 gallon. Plants I can identify are Elodea, Cabomba and Hornwort. I think the gravel is too large, and I didn't plant enough to begin with. This tank gets daylight, being next to the window. You can see some of the brown algae spots on the upper left of the tank.








If anyone can help me identify these plants it'll be smashing! The leaves kinda remind me of wistera...








And here's the 5 gallon. Tried to divide it. Made a mess. Now it's just sitting there until I can decide what to do with it. Gets some supplementary lighting from a desklamp - fluorescent 15 watts.
















and some massive duckweed with some massive roots that my dad's friend collected from a pond. I'm thinking of adding these to the tank eventually.

For selection of plants I've hit a dead end. The only aquarium that sells plants only have hornwort, cabomba and wisteria. Is it still possible to make a planted tank work with only these kind of plants?

It's kinda like asking you guys to do my homework for me, but I had lost my bio/chem capabilities a long while ago...and have some trouble comprehending some of the info here. >.<

Basically, problems I've identified are: size of gravel, lighting, inadequate plants, frilly potting soil. Now I need a way to solve these. I'm gonna hunt for the no-frills soil, I can't use the soil around my area cos it's silt, and doesn't settle well in the tank. But I'm wodering if I can still use the potting soil I have now, just manually remoe the white bits and other junk in it...

In any case, Ed's been in the tank for a week and more now. I still do 50% change every 4 days, otherwise he'll look crappy, and I'll find ammonia present. Nitrites so far have been 0. I should really get the Nitrate test kit and a PH one too.

This post has rambled on for long enough. Thanks for looking and I hope you can help me out!


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

I"m of the opinion that potting soil is not suited well for aquarium use becaue of the reasons you found. Topsoil is a much better choice and cheaper too; about $1.50 for a 40 lb. bag.

I also agree that the gravel you used is too large. You also did not put a thick enough layer of gravel over the soil. You'll want to use about 1/2" layer of soil and a 1" thick layer of smaller grain gravel.


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## SunnyBetta (Oct 18, 2006)

I'm looking out for topsoil as well...but being in a small town on an island it's difficult to find anything here...if I (try to) remove all the ferts and wetting agents from the soil....is there a possibility that I can use it? 

Otherwise I might have to abandon this idea totally, on account of not having a suitable soil base....the only other thing I've seen here is Laterite...


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## treesmcdonald (Mar 14, 2006)

Even though you did a few things wrong your plants still look nice and healthy! You might try waiting to see if things settle down. A few brown spots of algae on the tank sides are nothing to worry about IMHO. But it is a small tank so it would probably be easy to redo. There is no way to remove the wetting agent from the potting soil and I think it would take you about a year to pick out all the vermiculite and perlite lol. Also unless the fertilizer is in plastic coated balls you won't be able to remove that either. You might want to give your local soil a try. I found that if I make a thick sludge out of soil and water then cap it with half of the gravel, plant, then add another level of gravel and fill with water VERY slowly (I use my hand to diffuse it) most of the soil will stay out of the water column. Go ahead and add your large duckweed to the tank I have it in all of mine and it does a great job of keeping the water quality healthy. If you are having a hard time locating plants in your area give the for sale forum a try. I had great luck with my 2 transactions lol.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

Do you fertilizer your yard? Have you lived there long? If the answers to those questions are no and yes respectively then you shoudl be able to dig up some soil and screen it.


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## schaadrak (Aug 18, 2006)

That floating plant looks awsome. I think that it's Salvinia, not duck weed, though.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I agree Tree McDonald that your tank, especially the 2.5 gal, doesn't look that bad. The pretty, fern-like plant looks like Hygrophila difformis. It looks like its doing well, and it is a nice plant. 

The soil will settle down and the ammonia problem will go away. As long as the plants are growing well, I'd sort of hang with this. 

That little speck of algae on the glass is nothing.

For an initial try, I'd say you're doing rather well.

Patience folks!


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## SunnyBetta (Oct 18, 2006)

Thanks for all the great info! I was really bummed yesterday...thank you all for the wonderful encouragement. 
Unfortunately my yard (or flowerbeds more of, I live in an apartment) is fertilized. And I'm leery about bringing crawlies into the tank, though I'll be keeping the few small ramshorns and I think MTS from the plants. 

But what I'm going to do is: change the gravel size first of all, and maye get crushed coral as well. But I'm not sure if that is really necessary. As for the current soil, I'd looked in the 5 gallon and managed to pick out some gel like stuff - it's like the ones used for fortune bamboo. There are also small, round granules strewn about in there too. 

With the 2.5 I'm leaving it, maybe replacing the gravel as well, and adding more plants. This tank has been set up for almost a month now. For now I will keep up with regular water changes if ammonia/nitrite is present. I really should get the Nitrate test kit...

And schaadrak, you're right...it is Salvinia. I really like them! 

And thanks for identifying the Hygrophila difformis dwalstad! Though they do look different from the ones I had in Toronto...but they are still fun nontheless.


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## Lawrence Lee (Jul 17, 2004)

SunnyBetta, Brunei is one of the places in the world that you can get really excellent dirt right from the streams. Just go to the streams where the kids catch fish from and take the earth from the sides. That will be good for the base layer, which will be able to grow even difficult cryptocorynes. Just go buy some small sized (2mm granules) gravel to cap the base. Try sandblasting suppliers, these things are very cheap from those sources.

You and I are blessed to be in a part of the world that have sticky red mud called "laterite" underfoot. I understand people pay good money to buy these in pellet form to supplement their tanks.

IMO, you only need the ammonia (NH3 /NH4) testkit, at the most, a nitrite (NO2) kit. You should plant densely, right from the start. Then you don't need to know the Nitrate (NO3) or pH etc, as the system stabilises quickly, not needing to test or to micro-manage the water parameters.

I'd dump the old setup as there's too many unneeded chemicals to add to your woes. When I set up mine using mud from the stream, I didn't even have to do weekly water changes beyond the 2nd week. The acidic soil and tannin stained water is cycled immediately, and the betta will be all the happier for it.

The brown patch on the corner are diatoms. Some call them brown algae. It is a sign of New Tank Syndrome. Over time, they will disappear, not to worry. If you're in a hurry to get rid of it, Otocinclus catfish will eat these up.The roots of Salvania natans and the leaves Limnophila sessiliflora below it are displaying the first signs of Black Brush Algae. Frequent waterchanges will make it worse. Try to restrict water changing so the plants get a stable condition to adapt.

Good luck.


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## SunnyBetta (Oct 18, 2006)

Eep...I thought the clay would be bad...but thanks for the heads-up! Unfortunately the stream behind my apartment is being converted into a canal, so is sompletely a mess, but that probably makes things a little easier for me in terms of collecting (I might just get stares)

Come to think of it, this might not be such a good idea after all, it's quite polluted  But I do know of a couple other alternatives that I can check out. Any more tips on collection? Such as how to prevent getting some fish lice/anchor worms or other crawlies into the tank? That is my main worry from collecting from the wild. 

Lawrence, you have a very sharp eye at spotting the algae! I thought the plants were just furry...  But I'll try to be more patient this time, and plant as much as I can to start with, now that I know the definition of 'densely planted' 

Thanks very much for all your help! Hopefully I will be able to post pictures of a new (and improved) setup soon!


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## onemyndseye (May 12, 2006)

".....Frequent waterchanges will make it worse. Try to restrict water changing so the plants get a stable condition to adapt....."


Good advice indeed 


Take Care,
-Justin
One Mynds Eye


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## Lawrence Lee (Jul 17, 2004)

SunnyBetta said:


> Such as how to prevent getting some fish lice/anchor worms or other crawlies into the tank? That is my main worry from collecting from the wild.


Quarantine newly collected pieces before introducing to an established tank.

In your case, since you're starting from scratch, there's no need to quarantine. Depending on where you are, some places are just so perfect, you can drink directly from the stream... man, I miss the sweet, sweet water from the mountain streams of Temburong and Lutut. But that was 20 years ago...

Which part of Brunei are you at?


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## SunnyBetta (Oct 18, 2006)

Lawrence Lee said:


> Quarantine newly collected pieces before introducing to an established tank.
> 
> In your case, since you're starting from scratch, there's no need to quarantine. Depending on where you are, some places are just so perfect, you can drink directly from the stream... man, I miss the sweet, sweet water from the mountain streams of Temburong and Lutut. But that was 20 years ago...
> 
> Which part of Brunei are you at?


That is something which I have yet to experience lol, I'm at Bandar Seri Begawan. The streams that I can see and know of are all likely polluted to some degree, but there shouldn't be too much trouble to head into the jungle and find a clean(er) one 

Not sure if I can make a day trip to Temburong just to collect mud (in my parents' eye) I've gotta wait till my dad gets back from Thailand, he's a hasher, and has great experience careening through the jungle  So he'll probably know a place or two that have suitable soil. I might even try to harass the plants if I see any.

Thanks for the wonderful advice, it's all very insightful to me! Let's hope that I can finally get things together!


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## Lawrence Lee (Jul 17, 2004)

Sorry, I'm limited in experience WRT collecting soil in BSB.

BSB was always a day's stop en route to Temburong for me. Ferry trip up to Bangar town in Temburong takes 6 hours if current is not in favour. That was in the 1980s. The people there are soooo polite. You wave to everyone you pass by on the road. Drivers, villagers, children returning home from school, the Iban farmer in his hill paddy field, they all wave back. On the only night I stayed in BSB, I was accosted by a bunch of youths and they extorted money from 3 of us 

You need not go into the jungle to collect good soil. Just get to anywhere there is a stream feeding the fice paddies and collect the soil there. If you see fish in the stream, all the better! fishing and soil! Yippee! But be careful though. Hill paddy look so much like lallang (wild grass). If you trample the rice crop, the farmer may want a hefty compensation, calculated by the stalks of rice trampled on.

You must like Bettas. If wild bettas are your interest, you are right poised to access a goldmine not quite touched by others yet. Sarawak and Kalimantan had been well explored. so to whet your appetite, take a look at this: The Longest Hunt, by Michael Lo

Enjoy your stay in Asia.


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## SunnyBetta (Oct 18, 2006)

Lawrence Lee said:


> Sorry, I'm limited in experience WRT collecting soil in BSB.
> 
> BSB was always a day's stop en route to Temburong for me. Ferry trip up to Bangar town in Temburong takes 6 hours if current is not in favour. That was in the 1980s. The people there are soooo polite. You wave to everyone you pass by on the road. Drivers, villagers, children returning home from school, the Iban farmer in his hill paddy field, they all wave back. On the only night I stayed in BSB, I was accosted by a bunch of youths and they extorted money from 3 of us
> 
> ...


I'm sorry your one experience in BSB had to be a robbery  Brunei is still generally safe, I've been here for 14 years and things are still much unchanged. Malaysia, on the other hand... 

Thanks for the great link! I didn't expect to find all those flora and fauna here in the streams of Borneo! This will be a good excuse to visit Kalimantan...since the only places I've been to are Sabah and Sarawak. And only in the cities like Kuching.  But I don't think I'm up to collecting from the wild yet...I don't want to subject an otherwise happy fish from the wild to the mistakes I still make as an amateur fishkeeper. Besides, someone has to give the poor petstore bettas a home. -_-

Today I will try the soil in the backyard, put it in a jar and test it. Thanks for all your help and advice!


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