# Sticky  Fighting green water. Simple cheap method.



## Oleg

This method is free, it is natural (no chemicals). It is safe for fish and plants. It takes 5-8 days to completely get rid of green water (GW). It removes the cause of GW and some other algae. You don't need to stop dosing your fertilizer, you don't need to switch your lights off. You don't need to make any extra water changes, just proceed with your regular ones. Sounds like an ideal method to fight GW, maybe it is 

The idea is taken from Russian aquarium forum at http://www.aqa.ru/forum/ and Wadim Lisovsky page at http://lis.aqa.ru/

OK, the magic word is WILLOW!

Here is my experience of using the willow in my 90G tank.
I took few branches of willow tree. 1-2 years old branches 1/2 inch in diameter and 30-40 inches long will work. I used smaller ones as I couldn't find that thick.
Put these branches into your tank and wait. In 3-5 days the willow will develop roots and water will start to clear at that time. 2-3 more days and you get a crystal clear water! At that time you should remove the willow or your plants will starve. That's all!

I think the willow can be also used for:
1. Fry tank.
2. Cichlid tank without plants.
3. For removing white bacterial cloudiness.
I haven't try these myself though. If anyone wants to try please let us know the result.

Here is my conversation with Nikolay during the experiment. And some pictures. Unfortunately I started taking pictures only on day 6.

*****************

"I don't think that the willow is a magic thing - it just sucks nutrients like crazy.
Nikolay"

"Sure, no magic. By my understanding the willow and some other trees consume NH3/NH4 (a major algae's food) much faster than aquatic plants. That helps to combat the cause of any algae bloom.
I have a UV sterilizer, I used it few times to combat GW, it helped. But I don't like that bacterial equilibrium blows up along with GW.
Well... I'll see in a few days if the willow really helps 
On a side note, I add nitrates and phosphates to my tanks and it never entails a GW bloom. This particular tank was nitrate limited (0 reading of NO3), I think that shifted the balance.
Oleg"

"BGA is an algae that is closer to a bacteria. It is thought to develop as a result of low Nitrate. If that is true then maybe it makes sense to say that you and I may have bacterial bloom because my tank was very very low on Nitrate too.
In any case I am very frustrated that after using a big diatom, flocculant, UV, and blackouts that bacteria didn't even go away a little.
If the willow is indeed an ammonia sucking champion absorbing the smallest amount of ammonia as soon as it's released then I'm inclined to say that that is a great tool to use in the fight against algae.
But from what I read you need certain branches, not just any branch, right?
Nikolay"

"This morning I noticed a few new roots on some branches. And there is much less GW now!
Oleg"

"Very nice pictures. Keep taking pictures every day. That will make a great post and maybe an interesting discussion on APC and on Aquaria.ru too.
Nikolay"

"There are more roots this morning. And I can see the background pretty good. Note that this tank is 56cm wide.
Oleg"

"This is clearing up very very well. I wonder if these results can be repeated.
What about the white stuff that we think it's bacteria? Can you still see it?
Nikolay"

"Unfortunately I can still see that white stuff. Or maybe it is just a dolomite powder I added recently (it is a very fine powder).
Oleg"

"Do you mean diatom powder?

"Once I got some diatom powder that was too fine and the diatom filter couldn't run - the powder formed an impenetrable layer. But it never polluted the water.
Nikolay"

"Here is a picture I took this morning. The water is completely clear. I moved the willow branches to another corner of the tank and I will remove them from the tank in few days.
>Do you mean diatom powder?
No, I meant "dolomite". I use it sometimes to increase carbonate hardness (KH). It dissolves very slow. It also helps shrimps and snails - many times I saw them ate dolomite. You can read about dolomite here:
http://webmineral.com/data/Dolomite.shtml
The dolomite I use is in a form of a very fine powder so it actually clouds the water.
By the way I see neither white nor green cloudiness anymore.
I am very happy with the result. I encourage you to try the "willow method" if you ever get GW.
I believe it also can be used in a breading tank when fry actively feeding. Also I think it can be very useful in a cichlid tank.
Oleg"

"Please before you do anything else check the N and P of the tank water.
Nikolay"

"Nikolay, I am adding CaNO3 and KH2PO4 daily. So probably it will not tell us much if I check N and P now. What do you think?
Oleg"

"Tom Barr has been saying lately that Ammonia in very low levels is the cause of algae, not the excess of any other nutrient. Maybe the willow sucks Ammonia like nothing else in the world. We don't know if Ammonia causes the green water, but obviously adding NO3 and PO4 doesn't help it stay.
If Tom is right, and if the willow removes the small amounts of NH4 before they can cause algae, maybe it is logical to keep it in the tank at all times and at the same time to fertilize with NO3 and PO4 to feed the plants. I wonder if that could work in an extended period of time.
It sounds like the perfect filter - instead of bacteria convertinga Ammonia to NO2 and NO3 the willow removes the Ammonia very agressively, before anyone can use it. No accumulation of NO3 in the water!!!
Your results are very very interesting! Please post them on APC.
Nikolay"

">You have been adding NO3 and PO4 every day while trying to clean the green water?
Yes.
>Tom Barr has been saying lately that Ammonia in very low levels is the cause of algae, not the excess of any other nutrient.
I agree. Limiting plants in any nutrient plus raising ammonia level plus strong light = GW
>If Tom is right, and if the willow removes the small amounts of NH4 before they can cause algae, maybe it is logical to keep it in the tank at all times and at the same time to fertilize with NO3 and PO4 to feed the plants.
It seems to me that the willow consumes nutrients so quickly that it would be a waste to keep it with plants all the time.
I would try to keep it in a fry tank and in a cichlid tank.
Oleg"


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## Lissette

If this information is true, God Bless you.

I've been dealing with GW for more than a week. I've tried water changes of up to 80% in my 29 Gal. tank (twice a week), but the water immediately turns green again. It's very frustrating. First it was BGA (which lasted more than 2 months), and now it's GW. Frankly, I'm getting a little tired. I would love to see a crystal clear tank with healthy plants and fish again, and do water changes just once a week like I used to.

Currently, I'm giving my tank a 3 day blackout just to see if it gets rid of it, but if it doesn't, I'll definitely try this out. Judging from your pictures, it worked for you. I just hope that it will work for me and many other people who seem to be experiencing this problem.


Lissette


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## Simpte 27

Waterchanges only prolonged my greenwater. A 4 day blackout resulted in crystal clear water.


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## Lissette

I hope that it works. I'm a bit skeptical because I've read positive and negative feedback regarding blackouts for GW. So I'm just praying that when I uncover my tank on Saturday, that the water is clear.

Otherwise, I'm off to find a Willow tree. 

Lissette


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## Simpte 27

A few leaves on some of my plants (Cabomba, B Carolina, L. Repens, Parrotfeather) died off, but I'm thinking those leaves wern't healthy anyway. The plants themselves seem fine.


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## Lissette

Yippe! No more gw! You were right, a blackout did wonders for my tank. What a joy to see the water clear again. My fish actually winked at me today ;-).

Lissette


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## Oleg

hm... I actually expected more interest in this post. Well... anyone else tried willow to combat GW?


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## shalu

I just used the willow method a few weeks ago, worked like a charm(coupled with better mechanical filtration with polyester stuffed in filter). Water is now unbelievably clear. I actually upgraded my lighting to very high levels during my willow treatment, did not make it worse.

My willow branches(very thin new growth from my backyard pond) did not do anyting during the first week, just dropped the emersed grown leaves. But they started to grow roots like crazy after the first week and the water cleared up within a week.


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## fishyface

shalu said:


> My willow branches(very thin new growth from my backyard pond) did not do anyting during the first week, just dropped the emersed grown leaves. But they started to grow roots like crazy after the first week and the water cleared up within a week.


blackout clears green water in 2-3 days...


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## arellanon

I'll definately keep this Willow technique in mind if ever needed. The movie is cool too! =)


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## shalu

fishyface said:


> blackout clears green water in 2-3 days...


I don't want to miss seeing the tank for even a day, hehe. It was never too bad due to good mechanical filtration. I even have a UV, too lazy to hook it up on this tank. Putting in a few willow branches is the least work for me.


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## MatPat

I think I am too impatient for either method, Blackout or Willow. An overnight run of a diatom filter ($45 HOT Magnum with diatom powder) has cleared up almost every Green Water case I've had. Sometimes it runs a bit longer than overnight but it's not a problem. 

I think the whole point should be figuring out how we got the NH4 in the tank in the first place and trying to reduce or eliminate it...adding more plants or less bio-load to the tank. 

I know in my case I can bring on a case of green water by uprooting enough plants and not doing a water change afterwords. Now I either uproot the plants and do a water change or put the diatom filter on the tank when I can't get to the water change right away.


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## shalu

I got GW by putting way too much peat in the substrate of new tank. No fish so did not feed anything.


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## robby

I am very happy to mention that last week I succesfully battled a *white bacterial cloudiness* using willow branches.

For 3 months I could not get rid of this milky water, and by using willow branches it was gone in two days !!

Thanks very much for this unbelieveble method.
For me it is no magic, but comes pretty close to it


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## shalu

It is hard to imagine that the willow can even kill bacteria 
Maybe your white cloudiness is the initial stage of green water. Most green water starts out as white cloudiness, and it can remain that way for quite some time.


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## chiahead

OK, I am having extreme difficulties in obtaining any Willow brances. I have gone to a half dozen nurseries and no one here carries any willow trees. They all say it is just too hot and dry for them here. I am curious if anyone who has access to any branches would be willing to cut and ship some to me. I am looking for about 4-6 decent size branches about 24" long for my 80 gallon. I will pay whoever can do this plus the shipping ofcourse. I just cannot get any locally nor will the stores special order me a whole tree(I tried). Please PM me if this is possible. Thanks in advance.


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## stcyrwm

MatPat said:


> An overnight run of a diatom filter ($45 HOT Magnum with diatom powder) has cleared up almost every Green Water case I've had. Sometimes it runs a bit longer than overnight but it's not a problem.


Do you have to get a special cartridge to hold the diatom powder or is there a way to put it in that comes with the filter?

Thanks, Bill


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## MatPat

stcyrwm said:


> Do you have to get a special cartridge to hold the diatom powder or is there a way to put it in that comes with the filter?
> 
> Thanks, Bill


The HOT comes with a pleated filter cartdridge that can be used with or without diatom powder. It works pretty well given the cost  for what, 1/2 the price of a dedicated Diatom filter? The HOT also came in handy when I got another tank and didn't have a filter for it. Just put in on the tank while I waited for my Eheim to be delivered! Definately a handy filter to have around!


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## chiahead

So do you just pour the D.E. (diatom powder)powder in the bottom of the HOT magnum??? 

If so, how much do you put in for lets say an 80 gallon tank?

Do you place it outside the micron filter or inside the middle sleeve of it?

I need to do this and I am in need of the knowledge also.


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## MatPat

chiahead said:


> So do you just pour the D.E. (diatom powder)powder in the bottom of the HOT magnum??? .


I think the directions (for either the HOT or the Magnum 350, I don't remember which) state to put the Diatom powder in a bucket of water and filter the bucket of water until the water is clear.

I have done it this way and it always releases a dust cloud of Diatom powder into the tank on filter startup on the tank.

I now add my powder to a 500ml Rubbermaid container and fill it with water. I cap the container and put it in the tank under the intake of my HOT. I turn on the HOT and I open the container and let the HOT suck the powder/water solution from the Rubbermaid container into the filter intake. Doesn't take very long to do and it doesn't release diatom powder all over the tank. You may still notice a little bit of the powder bypassing the filter at first.



chiahead said:


> If so, how much do you put in for lets say an 80 gallon tank?.


I use 2 ounces of powder (1/4cup) for all of my tanks. They range from a 30g to a 75g. Tank size doesn't really matter as much as the filter volume. I have found that if I add more powder, it clogs up too fast and if I add less it takes longer to clear. I haven't done it an a while now so hopefully I didn't forget anything!


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## robby

shalu said:


> It is hard to imagine that the willow can even kill bacteria
> Maybe your white cloudiness is the initial stage of green water. Most green water starts out as white cloudiness, and it can remain that way for quite some time.


I always thought that the initial stage of green water was caused by a bacterial bloom ?????

About the killing: I was told that willow contains acetylsalicyl acid.
This should be known as a bacterial inhibitor.


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## MatPat

robby said:


> About the killing: I was told that willow contains acetylsalicyl acid. This should be known as a bacterial inhibitor.


If willow does contain acetylsalicylic acid and that is the main chemical that takes care of the Green Water then we may as well drop a baby aspirin in the tank.

Acetylsalicylic Acid is Aspirin...


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## chiahead

check this link out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salicylic_acid

it states that it is in th ebark of willow trees

I wonder what would happen if I drop a few aspirins in my tank???? Hmmmmmmmm


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## Bert H

Sounds like a project for (drum roll.....) PLANTBRAIN!!   . Tom, what do you think? Baby aspirin to kill gw?


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## fishyface

MatPat said:


> If willow does contain acetylsalicylic acid and that is the main chemical that takes care of the Green Water then we may as well drop a baby aspirin in the tank.
> 
> Acetylsalicylic Acid is Aspirin...


just wondering out loud...but do you think that perhaps it's the nutrient absorbing capabilities of the willow that clear up the GW  interesting to find out how exactly it works huh??


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## Gumby

I've decided to give this method a try. My 125 has become so green-cloudy that I am unable to see plants in the middle of the tank. I added a TON of willow branches today. I will get pictures tomorrow and will take pictures daily to show the progress of this method for treating GW. I hope to god that it truly works :x


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## chiahead

I am still searching for some kind soul to sell/send me some willow branches. Please anyone I cannot find any here.


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## stcyrwm

Chiahead,

I'm going hiking this afternoon. If I see any I'll grab them for you. There aren't a lot of them around here but I might get lucky. If you are looking then I assume you know to look around water.

Bill

PS
You have anything cool to trade for????


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## chiahead

Its just too hot here for willow trees. No humidity either. I have went to all the local growers and they cannot get them to live here. What were you thinking of for a trade, I do a some good items.


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## shalu

I can send you a few willow branches from my backyard dwarf willow. PM me your address, you pay $5 shipping only.


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## aquaboy

shalu said:


> I can send you a few willow branches from my backyard dwarf willow. PM me your address, you pay $5 shipping only.


Shalu,

Can you also send me some of your "magic dwarf willow"? if you have extra after chiahead. I'll send you $5 shipping payment via paypal right away.

BTW im bgssamson on PT site.

Thanks!
-Brian


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## Gumby

Meh, I had the branches in my tank for 5 days. Still have green water and some dried out willow branches. About half of them died, and the ones that lived never sprouted leaves. 

I gave up on trying that one, I'm too impatient. I borrowed a UV sterilizer from a friend... anyone know how long it'll take to clear up the water?


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## aquaboy

YAY! Green water gone! I've tried the Daphinia & it work great for my 20 gallon.

-Brian


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## Gumby

My green water is gone as well. UV sterilizer did the trick


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## plantbrain

Bert H said:


> Sounds like a project for (drum roll.....) PLANTBRAIN!!   . Tom, what do you think? Baby aspirin to kill gw?


Toss a jobes stick in your tank and find out, you guys know how to induce GW and know it does no harm to fish/plants................

Why bug me about it?
I have shown you folks the path of how to test............

I like this method, but....................the issue is getting the willows.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## MatPat

Inquiring minds want to know....

I just filled my failing 10g emmersed setup on my deck with water. It gets 4-6 hours of direct sunlight with filtered sunlight the rest of the day. I also added some Vigoro Flower and Vegetable Plant Food to the water to help promote Green Water. I don't think it will take too long to get Green Water in this setup.

This fertilizer consists of:

17% Nitrogen
- 3.6% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
- 4.6% Nitrate Nitrogen
- 8.8% Urea Nitrogen 
17% P2O5
17% K2O

My thoughts are to add 81mg (2-3ppm if my calculations are correct) of Aspirin (acetylsalisylic acid) to the tank after the Green Water is in full bloom and see what happens. I can always add more if it has no effect and it shouldn't be too hard to induce more green water for future experiments.

Presently, there are no fish in this tank, just some HC which is doing suprisingly well considering the neglect it has received. If the aspirin does in fact kill or significantly decrease the Green Water, I may add a few feeder guppies to the tank and try it again to see the effects aspirin has on fish 

I know this is a very basic experiment so if anyone has any input to make it more scientific, feel free to lend a hand...


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## plantbrain

Do 2 tanks, one a "control" to compare the untreated tank to the treated tank.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## MatPat

Mkes sense but since I only have one 10g tank at the moment, I will have to continue on with this method for the time being  

I guess I could invest another $10 in another 10g tank (or find a SWOAPE member willing to donate one) and do a "control" tank also. Set up both tanks exactly the same and treat one with ASA and let the other one go untreated. I assume this would verify the results of the first test.


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## plantbrain

Simple, put a tank divider glass in there.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## ctmpwrdcamry

I already have a test subject Matt, if someone would be willing to send some willow i will go pick up some dividers.


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## MatPat

Hey Sean,

I'm actually going to try the Aspirin method since it seems Aspirin is much easier to find than willow branches  
My test subject is coming along a bit slower than expected...I don't know if it is due to the Timed release fertilizer or the cooler night temps we have had the past few day. The green water is not where I thought it would be by now.


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## ctmpwrdcamry

Is the asprin supposed to be fine for the fish? I have the perfect test subject already


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## MatPat

I don't have a clue if Aspirin is safe for the fish! Does your test subject have fish in it? If not you could always give it a try too! I was going to put a single 81mg aspirin into the 10g and see how it works. I believe that will give me about 2ppm of acetylsalicylic acid. 

If it works on the green water then I will try again with some feeder guppies in the tanks and see how it does with fish.


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## swo21259

did you ever finish your test ?


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## MatPat

swo21259 said:


> did you ever finish your test ?


I did not finish and have actually abandoned this experiment. While the tank appeared to have cleared somewhat after about 4ppm of Aspirin it is hard to tell for sure.

I will be setting up two 10g tanks tomorrow (assuming I get over this cold) and growing out some green water over the next few days. This will give me one tank as a control and one tank to put the Apsirin in. That way I should be able to tell if one tank gets clearer than the other.

I will probably test it with 325mg (~8ppm) of aspirin versus the 162.5mg. If all goes well with the tests this week, I hope to add some Endlers to the tanks this weekend and see how they react to the Aspirin...


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## Oleg

robby said:


> I am very happy to mention that last week I succesfully battled a *white bacterial cloudiness* using willow branches.
> 
> For 3 months I could not get rid of this milky water, and by using willow branches it was gone in two days !!
> 
> Thanks very much for this unbelieveble method.
> For me it is no magic, but comes pretty close to it


Sorry for the late response! Somehow I don't receive email notifications about new replies. Hm.. I definately had subscribed to this thread 
Anyway, I really glad to hear that it helped you to get rid of white cloudiness! Congrats!


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## Oleg

fishyface said:


> blackout clears green water in 2-3 days...


Hi fishyface, are you working with Graham on Broadway? Right? Just wanted to say hello and mention that blackout will not get rid of the cause of GW, same thing about mechanical filtration or medicine. Also plants will definitely suffer from blackouts.
Anyways, see you soon in the store. Have you got Cardinals yet?


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## Oleg

chiahead said:


> OK, I am having extreme difficulties in obtaining any Willow brances. I have gone to a half dozen nurseries and no one here carries any willow trees. They all say it is just too hot and dry for them here. I am curious if anyone who has access to any branches would be willing to cut and ship some to me. I am looking for about 4-6 decent size branches about 24" long for my 80 gallon. I will pay whoever can do this plus the shipping ofcourse. I just cannot get any locally nor will the stores special order me a whole tree(I tried). Please PM me if this is possible. Thanks in advance.


Hi chiahead,
Sorry for the late response again. I missed it somehow.
Here is an article translated from Russian about Mangroves. I don't know if you have these things. If yes, and you are willing to give them a try, let us know how they work. 
http://www.msaqua.com/html/aqua/plants/mangrove/mangrove_eng.htm


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## Oleg

Gumby said:


> Meh, I had the branches in my tank for 5 days. Still have green water and some dried out willow branches. About half of them died, and the ones that lived never sprouted leaves.
> 
> I gave up on trying that one, I'm too impatient. I borrowed a UV sterilizer from a friend... anyone know how long it'll take to clear up the water?


Hi Gumby,

Sorry to hear that. Did you use first year branches or older? Green branches (first year) probably will not develop roots and will just rot. This is what I have read, anyway.


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## Oleg

*Daphnia tank*

Here is my 5.5G Daphnia tank. It stays under direct sun light; and I feed Daphnia a lot (I mean A LOT) every day except weekends. There are also ramshorn snails in it; and I feed them with an organics-rich turtle's food.
I had a thick layer of algae on the glass and few nasty smelly kinds of algae at the bottom. I also had to change water few times a week.
Willow got rid of the algae quickly and I forgot when I last changed the water.
This was just a stick without leaves on it, and without roots. I picked it up under a willow tree.


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## shalu

Oleg said:


> Hi Gumby,
> 
> Sorry to hear that. Did you use first year branches or older? Green branches (first year) probably will not develop roots and will just rot. This is what I have read, anyway.


I have only used new branches. they worked fine, just dropped the old leaves and grew new ones.


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## swo21259

i cleared up my greenwater with willow branches, it took 14 days but it is clearer than i have ever seen it.


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## AaronT

Gumby said:


> Meh, I had the branches in my tank for 5 days. Still have green water and some dried out willow branches. About half of them died, and the ones that lived never sprouted leaves.
> 
> I gave up on trying that one, I'm too impatient. I borrowed a UV sterilizer from a friend... anyone know how long it'll take to clear up the water?


I wonder if you left the lights on when you put the branches in?


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## Oleg

grandmasterofpool said:


> I wonder if you left the lights on when you put the branches in?


Hi grandmasterofpool,
I left the lights on as usual. Haven't shorten the light period.
Oleg
PS: The willow in my Daphnia tank became a real tree . Today I had to cut lots of new branches as they reached the floor. I did cut most roots as well.


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## apisto

WEll,

I've have read this discussion in Holland to, but what if instaed that the willow consumes nutrients ( NH4 ), it is the acetylsalicylic acid from the willow (remember this is the stuff in aspirin), what indeed is doing the trick?

It would be a challange to see if that is the case or it is just the uptake of NH4, in that case there should be other plants that can do this to..


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## AaronT

apisto said:


> WEll,
> 
> I've have read this discussion in Holland to, but what if instaed that the willow consumes nutrients ( NH4 ), it is the acetylsalicylic acid from the willow (remember this is the stuff in aspirin), what indeed is doing the trick?
> 
> It would be a challange to see if that is the case or it is just the uptake of NH4, in that case there should be other plants that can do this to..


Oleg - thank you for the response. I was actually asking Gumby if he had left the lights on. I was thinking perhaps he overlooked the willow branches needing the light to root as I would assume they do.

I would likely suspect it is the nutrient uptake because of the evidence that the green water does not start clearing until visible roots form on the willow branches.

As a side note I'm trying this now and I'll post my success or lack there of soon.


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## houseofcards

Hi All. 

I have just started using willow branches to clear my 72 gallon planted tank. 
It' seem from the discussion members have used both fresh (cut right off the tree) and old branches (dead) on the ground for this method. Doesn't the branch have to have some softness in it to grow new roots.

My only concern is do you think fresh branches are safe for plecos and otos since they will be sucking on them.


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## Oleg

houseofcards said:


> Hi All.
> 
> I have just started using willow branches to clear my 72 gallon planted tank.
> It' seem from the discussion members have used both fresh (cut right off the tree) and old branches (dead) on the ground for this method. Doesn't the branch have to have some softness in it to grow new roots.
> 
> My only concern is do you think fresh branches are safe for plecos and otos since they will be sucking on them.


Hi houseofcards,

I had one pleco and lots of otos and SAEs in the tank where I kept a willow. I noticed no problems  Even my gouramies liked to nip the branches and later - the roots.

Please note that the branches shouldn't be dead even if they lay on the ground. You can collect them after a windy weather, for example.


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## houseofcards

Thanks Oleg, sounds like it shouldn't be a problem for he aglae eaters. 

I actually cut some small branches off the tree this morning, took off the leaves and stood the bare branches in the tank. I guess the success is based on how quick and how many roots develop.


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## Oleg

houseofcards said:


> Thanks Oleg, sounds like it shouldn't be a problem for he aglae eaters.
> 
> I actually cut some small branches off the tree this morning, took off the leaves and stood the bare branches in the tank. I guess the success is based on how quick and how many roots develop.


Hi houseofcards, let us know when you see new roots.


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## houseofcards

Hi Oleg,

Roots started appearing in about 8 days. Here's a pic of Day 10. Haven't seen any effect on water clarity yet. My water seems to get greener as the day continues.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/480220988yzDKcY


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## Oleg

houseofcards said:


> Hi Oleg,
> 
> Roots started appearing in about 8 days. Here's a pic of Day 10. Haven't seen any effect on water clarity yet. My water seems to get greener as the day continues.
> 
> http://community.webshots.com/photo/480220988yzDKcY


Hi houseofcards,
The branches look exactly as mine.
At this point the excess of nutrients should be removed and the water should be clear already. Something is not right here. Maybe three branches are not enough for your 75G or it'll take longer to clear. Maybe you should stop adding NO3 for few days.
Please don't remove the willow from your tank yet. I am sure it will bit your green water. See the swo21259's post above; it took him 14 days.
Oleg


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## houseofcards

Hi Oleg, maybe I spoke to soon. The water is looking clear this morning. The big test will be by days end, because my water has been getting a green haze to it by evening, I even dosed po4 and no3 this morning. Just for the record the branches that are rooting were fresh branches right off the tree and were cut from both ends. The lighting on the tank is a hood light and is below the top of the branches which are sticking out of the top of my tank.


----------



## Oleg

houseofcards said:


> Hi Oleg, maybe I spoke to soon. The water is looking clear this morning. The big test will be by days end, because my water has been getting a green haze to it by evening, I even dosed po4 and no3 this morning. Just for the record the branches that are rooting were fresh branches right off the tree and were cut from both ends. The lighting on the tank is a hood light and is below the top of the branches which are sticking out of the top of my tank.


Glad to hear that! I wouldn't add NO3 yet though.
Keep us updated.


----------



## houseofcards

Well the water got a little hazy toward evening, but not as bed as it has been. What in your opinon is the connection with the no3. I basically subscribe to the EI method and didn't thing the no3 was an issue.


----------



## Oleg

houseofcards said:


> Well the water got a little hazy toward evening, but not as bed as it has been. What in your opinon is the connection with the no3. I basically subscribe to the EI method and didn't thing the no3 was an issue.


Connection with NO3 - just my experience. I think once GW got established it feeds up on NO3. I would stop adding NO3 until GW ALMOST disappear. I am saying ALMOST because if GW is digressing then it has no food and it is time to feed plants.
But this is just my experience. Tom Barr probably would say add a lot of NO3 and CO2.


----------



## MatPat

houseofcards said:


> What in your opinon is the connection with the no3. I basically subscribe to the EI method and didn't thing the no3 was an issue.


The Green Water and other types of algae, will feed off of fertilizers just like the plants. While stopping ferts may stop the gren water, it will probably also stop plant growth and lead to other types of algae growth. GW can be induced by NH4 (ammonium). Once established, it hangs on for a while. To remove it you can:

1) use a diatom filter - Costs $ unless you have a filter
2) blackout the tank for 3 days - do a search on blackouts for specific directions - Blackouts are free!
3) UV filter the tank - $ issue again
4) try the Willow method suggested in this thread- free if you have access to willow branches and if you can get it to work


----------



## houseofcards

Thanks for all the good info. The blackout was my next option. Over the last day my GW has definitely gotten much better and the roots (see pic) have gotten on the willow branches. I've continued to dose no3 and po4 but on the bottom end of the EI scale. I had been using P-Clear (Hagen) to clear GW, but it only lasted a few hours and was cloudy again, so obviously the GW is still being feed.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/481193347WgNNkJ


----------



## houseofcards

Well I finally made it through the day without any haziness and without adding anything to the water. It's tough to completely credit the willow branches, could be that the growth in plants gave the GW a knockout punch, (tank is 3 1/2 weekk old) but I must admit it did coincede with the large root development on the willow branches over the last few days.

BTW - I continued to dose no3 and po4. The water right now is crystal clear.


----------



## Oleg

houseofcards said:


> Well I finally made it through the day without any haziness and without adding anything to the water. It's tough to completely credit the willow branches, could be that the growth in plants gave the GW a knockout punch, (tank is 3 1/2 weekk old) but I must admit it did coincede with the large root development on the willow branches over the last few days.
> 
> BTW - I continued to dose no3 and po4. The water right now is crystal clear.


Congrats!


----------



## houseofcards

Oleg, well thanks for starting this thread. I'm afraid to take the branches out. Do you remove branches or have you kept a few in after the GW cleared.


----------



## Edward

Hi

The magic word is NOT Willow for me. 
I have 4 identical 10 gallon aquariums in a sunny room with green water. In one as an experiment I placed a bunch of willow branches. They have developed roots and been there for 4 weeks. The green water has NOT changed. Why?

Edward


----------



## houseofcards

Edward,
Well that is interesting. Are there only willow branches in the tank and nothing else? Is it possible that the willow branches land a hand to their aquatic plant cousins by sucking up enough to get rid of the GW, but on their own it's not enough. Maybe the plant mass in my tank was going to clear the GW eventually anyway. I simply don't know and I guess more controlled experiements would be necessary.


----------



## Oleg

Edward said:


> Hi
> 
> The magic word is NOT Willow for me.
> I have 4 identical 10 gallon aquariums in a sunny room with green water. In one as an experiment I placed a bunch of willow branches. They have developed roots and been there for 4 weeks. The green water has NOT changed. Why?
> 
> Edward


The magic word is NOT Willow for me. - 
Thank you Edward for the experiment!
You probably continued feeding your GW with nitrogen, didn't you?
If you'll give enough food for both GW and willow, they both will be living in your tank.
If you stop adding your ferts the GW will die much faster than willow.
Or maybe it depends HOW MUCH NO3 we are adding. It would be interesting to try two tanks with GW and willow, first - adding NO3 as usual, second - limiting or discontinuing NO3.


----------



## Edward

Hi houseofcards and Oleg
You want me to starve the algae? We can try that, but what about the plants? The aquariums are fully planted and without proper water column fertilization the plants will die. Is this the plan?

Edward


----------



## Oleg

Edward said:


> Hi houseofcards and Oleg
> You want me to starve the algae? We can try that, but what about the plants? The aquariums are fully planted and without proper water column fertilization the plants will die. Is this the plan?
> Edward


Hi Edward,
I hope your GW will die much faster than plants and you then happily continue your proper water column fertilization 
Best wishes,
Oleg


----------



## Edward

Hi Oleg 
My 13 aquariums run 4 UV sterilizers over here so it’s not a problem getting rid of the green water in few hours. I perform experiments on purpose so we can help members who do not have access to the UV sterilizers. 

Edward


----------



## Oleg

Edward said:


> Hi Oleg
> My 13 aquariums run 4 UV sterilizers over here so it's not a problem getting rid of the green water in few hours. I perform experiments on purpose so we can help members who do not have access to the UV sterilizers.
> 
> Edward


I know, Edward, you are doing a very good thing. I just answered you the same way as you ask the question.
If you truly want to understand why willow didn't work in your specific case then please describe your 10G tank in details and we will think together. But be open to learn not only teach.
Regards,
Oleg


----------



## Edward

Hi Oleg
It’s quite interesting. We have in this direct sunlight room four 10 gallon aquariums and one 50 gallon. The 50 gallon aquarium doesn’t get green water, but the other aquariums do. This goes on for years. I was hoping the willow does the trick because it is so simple. I even tried the Aspirin as mentioned above, one tablet a day – didn’t kill the green water.

I will keep the willow there so we can see how it goes. 

Thank you
Edward


----------



## houseofcards

Edward

I don't thing you read my replys.

_BTW - I continued to dose no3 and po4. The water right now is crystal clear._

I never stopped dosing no3 and po4. I believe the branches assist with "sucking up" enough nutrients to tip the scales in favor of the plants.


----------



## Edward

The aquariums are fully planted and properly fertilized. 

Edward


----------



## MatPat

Edward said:


> Hi Oleg
> It's quite interesting. We have in this direct sunlight room four 10 gallon aquariums and one 50 gallon. The 50 gallon aquarium doesn't get green water, but the other aquariums do. This goes on for years. I was hoping the willow does the trick because it is so simple. I even tried the Aspirin as mentioned above, one tablet a day - didn't kill the green water.
> 
> I will keep the willow there so we can see how it goes.
> 
> Thank you
> Edward


Hey Edward,

I noticed you tried the aspirin and it didn't work. I had also tried it in a 10g tank I had on my deck and it was unseccessful. I first used 162.5 mg followed by 325mg the next day. The water seemed better but it was hard to tell without a control tank.

I have been attempting to grow two more cultures of green water outside and have been unsuccessful due to the cold weather (40's at night) and have assumed the cold was keeping the GW from establishing.

I am going to attempt the GW again this weekend. I will probably add more than one 325mg tablet per day since one tablet had no efffect on my tank or yours. If I remember correctly, one 325mg tablet only adds about 8ppm of ASA to the tank (bare bottom 10g). Feel free to check my math on the PPM dosage...

What affect do you think heat would have on your 10g tanks in the sunroom? They would not be as stable temperature wise as the 50g.


----------



## Edward

MatPat said:


> What affect do you think heat would have on your 10g tanks in the sunroom? They would not be as stable temperature wise as the 50g.


 You are right. The smaller 10 gallon aquariums are significantly warmer. Also the sun angle and spectrum plays a role. 
I know people trying to *get* green water without success. It's hard if conditions are not right. Maybe we should try growing algae instead of plants to learn what they like the most and then build our strategy against them. What do you think?

Edward


----------



## MatPat

Edward said:


> I know people trying to *get* green water without success. It's hard if conditions are not right. Maybe we should try growing algae instead of plants to learn what they like the most and then build our strategy against them. What do you think?


I agree whole heartedly 

I never have trouble growing green water in my plant tanks. Any major substrate disturbance, such as uprooting a large crypt, and not doing a water change almost always leads to green water in my plant tanks.


----------



## Oleg

Edward said:


> Hi Oleg
> It's quite interesting. We have in this direct sunlight room four 10 gallon aquariums and one 50 gallon. The 50 gallon aquarium doesn't get green water, but the other aquariums do. This goes on for years. I was hoping the willow does the trick because it is so simple. I even tried the Aspirin as mentioned above, one tablet a day - didn't kill the green water.
> 
> I will keep the willow there so we can see how it goes.
> 
> Thank you
> Edward


Hi Edward,

Let us together find the cause of GW in your 10G tank. And if the tree is able to remove the cause.

*Problem:*
a constant GW for years

*What we know:*
Volume: 10G
Light: natural sunlight

*Some more info required:*
fish load and feeding, type of food and amount
plants load
fertilization (yes/no, what exactly)
- CO2 (yes/no, ppm)
water changes (%, how often)
substrate
About substrate. I have a feeling that this might be the most important thing in your case. What do you use? How often do you clean it if ever? How thick is the layer(s)?
Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate level - would be nice to know too.


----------



## Oleg

MatPat said:


> ...I noticed you tried the aspirin and it didn't work. I had also tried it in a 10g tank I had on my deck and it was unseccessful...


This is an interesting experiment but... again.. the aspirin will not remove the cause of GW.


----------



## Edward

Oleg said:


> Hi Edward,
> 
> Let us together find the cause of GW in your 10G tank. And if the tree is able to remove the cause.
> 
> *Problem:*
> a constant GW for years
> 
> *What we know:*
> Volume: 10gall
> Light: natural sunlight with 10 hours of 40W PC in reflector
> 
> *Some more info required:*
> fish load and feeding, type of food and amount
> plants load
> no fish
> 100% planted
> fertilization (yes/no, what exactly) all known variations
> - CO2 (yes/no, ppm) yes, 20 ppm pressurized
> water changes (%, how often) 100%, 50% or no WC made no difference
> substrate inert old or inert new or with peat made no difference
> About substrate. I have a feeling that this might be the most important thing in your case. What do you use? How often do you clean it if ever? How thick is the layer(s)? two inch total
> Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate level - would be nice to know too. ammonia and nitrite never seen in planted tank, NO3 from zero to 20 ppm, PO4 from zero to 1.5 ppm made no difference


Too many combinations to list.

Access to sunlight is the most powerful aspect for plants and algae to react. The angle, duration and spectrum with temperature can trigger growth not expected to happen under artificial light fixtures. The GW is mostly visible at seasonal changes.

The answer to this experiment is the lighting period as per the poll.

Thank you
Edward


----------



## Oleg

Edward said:


> Too many combinations to list.
> 
> Access to sunlight is the most powerful aspect for plants and algae to react. The angle, duration and spectrum with temperature can trigger growth not expected to happen under artificial light fixtures. The GW is mostly visible at seasonal changes.
> 
> The answer to this experiment is the lighting period as per the poll.
> 
> Thank you
> Edward


Edward, with all my respect, we are talking here about why the willow didn't help you in one particular tank. You sure haven't tried all these combinations during the "willow treatment".


----------



## tivaj

Blackout leaves your plants weak and green water may comeback. That is what happened to me. However I dealt with it differently.
I emptied about 80% of the water and than added about only 20% back (you have now about 40%) and created surface agitation using an internal filter. the next day I took out half of the water (50% of the 40%) and I filled the aquarium back to the 40% level. repeat this once/twice and than fill your tank back to full level. you will have a crystal clear water and your plants will not suffer. I have used this method more thank once in different tanks and it worked great 

Regds


----------



## houseofcards

I was using the willow method for about a month. It took about 2 weeks to get good root development. My water did clear eventually, but I don't know if it was the willow branches or the fact that my plant mass finally increased enough to eliminate the green water. My tank was only about 20 days old when I got the GW. I removed the willow branches about 3 weeks ago and have not had green water since. My best guess is that the willow branches suck up alot of waste, but I don't know if that's any diffferent than throwing a bunch of weeds in your tank.


----------



## jrtiberius

I was wondering if this method would work with other plants, perhaps interjecting the roots of a water lilly... Hmmm?


----------



## fishnutnut

jrtiberius said:


> I was wondering if this method would work with other plants, perhaps interjecting the roots of a water lilly... Hmmm?


I've read through this entire thread and have had the same thought having used devils ivy to soak up nitrates in a fish only tank imo i think using any plant thats capable of devloping large roots in water would do the trick such as bamboo and pussywillows both readily available at local greenhouses and would be a easier to find for those of you that do not have willow trees in your local

I am going to try this as an experiment also in a bit just in the middle of clearing up my tanks with a uv light so i need to intoduce gw to another setup


----------



## xinnix

*willow branches and G.W.*

Did the willow branches have any bad effect on any of the fish? I have tried diatom filters and have not had god results. I have access to willow trees and was wondering how many branches to put in a 125 gallon tank. It is March here in upstate NY so the trees are dormant. Will they start rooting once they warm up and have thelight from the tank? Is there any special way the branches should be cleaned before adding them to the tank. I have read good and bad results here. Do you feel this is the answer to clearing the Green water? Thanks


----------



## Oleg

xinnix said:


> Did the willow branches have any bad effect on any of the fish?


I haven't noticed anything bad on any of my fish, shrimps and snails.


xinnix said:


> I have access to willow trees and was wondering how many branches to put in a 125 gallon tank. It is March here in upstate NY so the trees are dormant. Will they start rooting once they warm up and have thelight from the tank?


I would try 5-10. They will root. Please read what branches should be used.


xinnix said:


> Is there any special way the branches should be cleaned before adding them to the tank.


I just rinse them.


xinnix said:


> Do you feel this is the answer to clearing the Green water? Thanks


This is what I did few times and I know it worked for me. I cannot say for other people as I cannot control how they do it. If they don't follow the same scheme as I did I cannot guarantee the result  And if you read the thread carefully you will see that some people don't really want to understand why this did not work for them but simply deny the method.

Good luck and please keep us updated. Pictures would especially helpful.


----------



## fisherelli

I tried willow branches, rinsed in old tank water. Tried 4 branches in a 100L tank for 2 weeks, but it did not work for me. They grew roots within 4 days or so. I used weeping willow branches - maybe this is the wrong type? I will be getting a uv filter once I have a canister filter up and running.


----------



## JerseyScape

I stirred up my substrate about two weeks ago and I am unable to shake the green water. There is no other algae in the tank what so ever except the water itself 

I went to my local park and ripped off a few branches from a Weeping Willow tree to see what happens. The other day the tank was blacked out and nothing has changed except my plants withered away (it was blacked out for 4 days). Well, today I put in a few branches just to see if this method works and will report back to you. Since I live in a cold climate that might affect the tree somewhat because they are in hybernation mode for the winter right now.

Here are a few pics and I'll update if anything changes.

********* 3/3/06 *********


----------



## snoopfish

Such a great thread, I have spent the last half hour reading through most of the posts. I too stirred up my substrate a couple of weeks ago (by removing a couple of plants) and this last week had an issue with the beginnings of green water. In my tank, it just looked like a white haze. Last night I used my Magnum 250 with some diatom powder in it. I let it run for about 3 or 4 hours. When I opened up the filter to clean it out, it was definately algae inside. I am going to continue to feed my plants and try to replace the ones that were removed. I will keep you posted on my results, as I don't expect that I am free and clear of my GW just yet. It can't be that easy to get rid of !!


----------



## taekwondodo

Good thread!

I have had only minor issues on my 55G - but spring is coming and my 4Kgal koi pond is already a muddy green/brown and I have a willow in my yard (suckers 7 years old and 2' around and 50' high already and starting to wrek my yard).

Every year I go through GW with the pond - have to run UV and AlgaeFix the Cr## out of it.

This could be good - I'll put several branches in the pond and see what happens as spring progresses.

Thanks for the idea.

- Jeff


----------



## DelawareJim

Barley straw works to clear up green water too. The pond crowd has been using it successfully for several years now.

So for those who can't find willow branches, trot on down to your local garden center that also sells pond supplies and they should have barley straw available in a variety of sized containers.

Cheers.
Jim


----------



## taekwondodo

I've used barley straw a couple of times and:

1) It takes a lot of barley straw for a 4.5KG Pond, and
2) I never did get any noticeable results...

- Jeff


----------



## Elkmor

Don't put willow into gravel - roots must be outside of earth to get their food from water, not from substrate.

Not every willow will work - the best one grows near warter, with long thin leafs. It produces "hairy" red roots. You can see more pictures here: http://lis.aqa.ru/iva/iva.html

Willow in the tank can supress plants too, not algae only.

P.S. Not only willow will help - mangrove is the other to try.

Another known way is to put enougth daphnia into gauze and place it into tank... theoretically, they'll eat all the "green water" algae (never tried it, it seems that this method is not widely tested).


----------



## orandachan

Hello,

I think this is going to be my first post here. But I've been browsing around acquiring rich information about the trade. I thought I'd contribute on this useful thread.

So I started getting GW about two weeks ago and tried curing it with API's Accu-Clear (which temporarily worked on my pond before). Used it twice as recommended and no improvement whatsoever.

The water got so murky I couldn't see anything past 8in deep. Well, yesterday I got some branches from a weeping willow tree, tossed it in my aquarium - with the leaves still on, and took the flower buds off - and after 24 hours, I now noticed quite a difference! Not only could I see the back of my aquarium (12in), I could see a plant 24in away from the side glass. 

No roots have developed on the branches. The branches were very young ones, probably 6 of them 16in+ in my 55 gal. 

I can't wait for what's happening tomorrow. I think at this rate, it should be crystal clear after 24 hours?! Only if things went that smooth... [smilie=t: 

Thanks everyone in advance for such wonderful insight.

-Steve


----------



## jorgeoliveira

I have tested the willow branch!
It work fine to me (it took one and half weeks) but drained all the nutrients from the water besides Green Algae.
The plants are recovering now.


----------



## orandachan

So after 48 hours, my water became clear-er than before. I'm just blown away with the results!!! None of the other plants seem to had any negative affect. So thanks everyone!

-S


----------



## phangster

Dear all,
could you guys confirm with me if the following picture is indeed that of a willow tree?
thanks and regards

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/gallery/files/7/3/2/6/IMG_0932_original.jpg


----------



## ruki

jrtiberius said:


> I was wondering if this method would work with other plants, perhaps interjecting the roots of a water lilly... Hmmm?


Most floating pond plants need very high light levels to do well in indoor aquarium. So the water lilly types aren't practical indoors for most people. But, some of the other floating plants should work. In particular Pistia stratodes (water lettuce) might be the best one to try.

I had a water lily type plant melt down due to a bug infestation and then the water turned green. I put in some Pistia stratodes and that cleared it up in about a week. This appoach also worked when I added too many micros in another tank which resulted in an algal bloom.

Spirodela polyrrhza (Giant duckweed) should also help, but doesn't develop the roots that really seem to pull excess nutrients out of the water.


----------



## remy

Hi there,

Old post, but helpfull, thanks!
I'm off to find some willowbranches, shouldn't be hard to find in my country


----------



## celaeno

hi, i have a bare bottom 10 gallon tank that has had green water for about half a year now. i tried blackouts, but the green water came back. algone, a commercial product, also had no effect after 2 weeks. then i got linked to this thread from aquahobby forums.

so i now have 8 1-foot long willow tree branches, each 1/8" thick. i placed them under the light and put the hood on. the ends of the branches are sticking out. 

will willow branches of this length and thickness work, or do i need thicker or longer branches?


----------



## celaeno

now, after about a week, i see little white puffs forming on the branches. are they rotting or will roots come out?


----------



## epicfish

It's either rotting, or a type of fungus. Take it out and scrub the puffs off.

If you've had GW that long, I'd just go ahead and either buy or rent a diatom filter. I'm glad I did.


----------



## celaeno

after the diatom filter clears the water, will the green water come back after a few days/weeks?


----------



## peterh

Hello,



> now, after about a week, i see little white puffs forming on the branches. are they rotting or will roots come out?


Those are the spots, where new roots will appear. This is similar to other plant I've seen.

Right now, I am testing the method as well. After 10 days, I see some of those spots an first roots under water. Funny: Just an inch above the water, some roots are coming out and are developing faster.

I cut twigs from two different kinds of willow to see if one is faster that the other. But it seems, 10 days is standard in wintertime.

Greets,
Peter


----------



## whitepine

I have a professor that does research with daphnia... and she is always growing green water to feed them. So, yes daphnia will work. They just won't last very long in your tank with most fish around.

Cheers, Whitepine


----------



## epicfish

celaeno said:


> after the diatom filter clears the water, will the green water come back after a few days/weeks?


Mine hasn't. *knock on wood*.


----------



## SKSuser

Crazy thought here, but it could be something new to think about.
Willow tea is sometimes used as a rooting hormone in organic greenhouses and stuff.

What if the willow is giving something to the water instead of taking something away?

I may try a little project with willow tea in the spring when my willows get new growth. 
BTW, I have many black willow and am willing to share for the price of shipping. They won't start leafing out here in MO for a couple months though.


----------



## peterh

Hallo,

I gave up on the willow method this week. I had two kinds of willow in my tank, about 6 sticks each. After 5-10 days, roots appeared but it did not clear a bit. Then I tried a 5 day blackout (left the sticks in) and checked this morning: The water was still green! The roots on the sticks were quite impressive.

Ok, did 3 90% water changes in a row and cleaned out most of the muck. Appearently most beard algae died. Some plants started growing again during the blackout (Sagittaria, Crypts, Annubias, Echis, Hygrophilia). Limmnophilia stayed inert and my Lotus lost most of the leaves.

I dosed now NO3 to 8mg plus FE and PO. Wait and see ...

Greets,
Peter


----------



## celaeno

it's been 19 days since i put in about 8 willow branches in my 10 gallon. i took two out because they didn't have any roots. the other 6 branches started growing roots 9 days ago and are still growing.

however, the green water has not cleared but has gotten worse, maybe since i've been keeping lights on for 9 hours a day.

i've turned the lights off a few days ago and did two 25% water changes yesterday, so the tank is now less green.

i might just abandon the willow tree method because i just bought an internal 9w uv sterilizer. it was rather cheap at $29.99.


----------



## celaeno

well, the willow branches were in my tank for 26 days and had grown roots all over, but the green water has not been noticeably affected. therefore, i took them out and declare the willow method a hoax.


----------



## celaeno

beware of rotting branches. once you see them rotting, taking them out immediately to avoid infecting your fish.

my female betta most likely died because it was constantly swimming around the branches and came in contact with the rotting ones.

clearly, this method is only feasible for a short period of time, say 1 week, before it becomes a living hazard!

just get an internal uv sterilizer like i did and save yourselves some trouble...

AA Aquarium ¡V a reputable brand of quality aquarium equipment


----------



## peterh

Hello,

just a brief addition: I had a UV-C on the tank with the green water for 4 days before it started to clear. So it must have been a really bad case. It still has some white haze, and I plug the UV-C in every night.

Bye,
Peter


----------



## BrkD

would overdosing on seachem flourish excel kill green water?


----------



## AQUAMX

Hi guys

This has also taken the last 30 minutes for me to read and is an excellent thread. I have a new setup using amazonia and powersand special. The tank is cycling and has been running for 12 days. I have a hint of greenwater along with the algea bloom due to the cycling.

I have not seen it mentioned, but as riccia is a fast grower would it make sense to try this as a method also? I have floated a small amount and it seems to be growing fairly quickly. I also have access to willow its everywhere here where i live.

Excellent thread guys

Brad


----------



## hoppycalif

AQUAMX said:


> Hi guys
> 
> This has also taken the last 30 minutes for me to read and is an excellent thread. I have a new setup using amazonia and powersand special. The tank is cycling and has been running for 12 days. I have a hint of greenwater along with the algea bloom due to the cycling.
> 
> I have not seen it mentioned, but as riccia is a fast grower would it make sense to try this as a method also? I have floated a small amount and it seems to be growing fairly quickly. I also have access to willow its everywhere here where i live.
> 
> Excellent thread guys
> 
> Brad


When you use ADA Amazonia soil I think you are initially supposed to change water every few days to keep ammonia from building up. After a month or so you don't need to do that. You could also use purigen or activated carbon in the filter for the first month to keep the ammonia under control. It is that ammonia that causes the green water to start up.


----------



## AQUAMX

Thanks Hoppy

I have been W/C every 2nd day at 50%. I am adding purigen tomorow to the filtration as i have had trouble accessing it. Through testing the ammonia has dropped alot since the begining but is stil at around 5ppm. 

Thank you for your reply, sorry if i have hijacked the thread.

Brad


----------



## Paul Green

Hello, guys! This is my first post at the APC forum, but I've been watching you for a while I really liked this thread, coz there were a lot of comments, both positive and negative, looked like a heated discussion.

Two weeks ago I got green water in my 30g newly set up tank. I tried blackout for five or six days, which led to no results but weakened plants. Then I put five willow branches in my tank (it was Salix alba, I believe) and eagerly waited for the results. Water started to clear as first roots appeared (days 4th to 6th, depending on branches). After only three days of rooting I have very clear water in my tank. Thank you very much, Oleg!  

I want to comment one more thing. Here some guys tried to use aspirin to get rid of green water. I think it's quite fruitless because algae that cause water to get green, and my green water was apparently caused by algae, have a lot in common with higher plants: that's really hard to find an antibiotic that can selectively affect algae leaving alone plants. Aspirin, which is really found in Salix species, is hardly to have this selective property. Moreover, as the majority of people have noticed using willow branches, water in their tanks clears only after rooting of willow, which means that willow sucks up some nutritions from water rather than producing something into water.

And one more funny thing to notice: this method was introduced by a Russian fellow, which makes me think that I have to read more Russian forums, for my native language is Russian. Anyway, it was funny to discover this topic being so popupar at one of the best aquascaping forums to my mind))


----------



## frozenbarb

I dont know about anyone esle tank, but Surely Ammonia. was the main cause of green water in my dads Tank..
Since parrot fishes Poop alot... and they dont eat all the food... Alot of ammonia was Made but since they died there was no more ammonia And no more green water


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## galettojm

Hello everyone!!!

This is my first post

I have gw in my 180 liters (47G) planted aquarium.

After reading this post I put two weeping willows branches, 2cm (1 inch) in diameter 70 cm (27 inch) long, inside the aquarium.

I have two doubts:

Do I have to take the leaves of the branches?
Some part of the willow has to be out of the water?

Thanks!!

This is the photo of my aquarium with the willows branches inside;










Juan


----------



## Oleg

galettojm said:


> Hello everyone!!!
> This is my first post
> I have gw in my 180 liters (47G) planted aquarium.
> After reading this post I put two weeping willows branches, 2cm (1 inch) in diameter 70 cm (27 inch) long, inside the aquarium.
> I have two doubts:
> Do I have to take the leaves of the branches?
> Some part of the willow has to be out of the water?
> Thanks!!
> This is the photo of my aquarium with the willows branches inside;
> Juan


Hi Juan,
This is not going to work. You need to remove the leaves. And put the branches vertically, so the upper part is about 20cm out of the water.
Good luck!
Oleg


----------



## galettojm

oleg,

thanks you for your prompt response !!!

i will do as you say tonight.

do you think that the weeping g willow is going to work ?? or is it better the salix alba ??

thanks again,

Juan


----------



## Oleg

galettojm said:


> oleg,
> 
> thanks you for your prompt response !!!
> 
> i will do as you say tonight.
> 
> do you think that the weeping g willow is going to work ?? or is it better the salix alba ??
> 
> thanks again,
> 
> Juan


They look similar to me 
try both if you can and let us know what works better


----------



## galettojm

if I find the other one I will try both !!

Thanks

Juan


----------



## galettojm

Oleg,

I followed yours instructions and this is how the aquarium like now:










Do you think I should put more branches inside?

Bye,

Juan


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## galettojm

OLEG,

The water is definitely getting clear as the days pass bye.

Thanks you for sharing this wonderful way of fighting the GW.

I will try share the experience with my spanish forum www.croa.com.ar

thanks again,

Juan


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## galettojm

Oleg,

After six days of treatment the water is almost clear:










Do you think I should take out the willow branches now ? The GW is gone, but there are few other types of alge remaing.

I am also using activated carbon in the filter. Do you think I should take it out ?

Just for testing your method I increased the lighting period to 10 hours and stopped water changes when I introduced the willows branches. Do you think I should reduce the light duration and restart the water changes as soon as the branches are gone ?

Thanks,

Juan


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## galettojm

3/10: I put the willows inside the aquarium









4/10: you told me to trim the branches









5/10: the willow started to root









7/10: the water is more clear









8/10: the water is more clear

















9/10: the water is more clear and the willow's roots grow very fast

















10/10: the water is crystal clear


----------



## Grubs

*Day 0*









*Day 11*









*Day 17*









*Day 21*









Willow branches (weeping willow) were not successful.
4 branches in a 27 litre tank (7 gal?)

Day 22 I'm moving the fish and getting out the bleach.

No ferts were added at any time.
Two 50% water changes were done during the 21 days.
Tap water has undetectable N and P.
KH and GH <1 Degree out of the tap and are boosted to GH 4 and KH 3 (degrees)
Temp 22C


----------



## galettojm

It is obvious that the willow didn’t work in your case. And I really don’t know why.

Maybe it is just a coincidence that my tank got rid of the algae just when the willows branches started to rout.

But a friend of my fought with GW for a month without success. He put the willows branches and a week later the water was crystal clear. He took photo of the process just like you.

Now I am really confused. jejeje

Anyway, Merry Christmas !!!

Juan


----------



## galettojm

I am just guessing, but I can only think in two answers:
A) the willow branch has no effect and the cases when the GW disappear is just a coincidence.
b) the willow branch help to stabilize the tank, but it can not do it completly by itself.

Bye !

Juan


----------



## galettojm

I have had 4 times GW since I started my 180 liter tank.

I have already left the photo of the first time I had GW.

The second and third time it disappeared after 2 or 3 days without doing anything.

The four time it appeared the 28 of November.

Since that day to the 29 of December I did the followings things:


4 50% water changes 
I reduced the light period to 8 hours
I put activated coal to the filter
co2 continuously
I stopped trimming and the tank became a jungle !

The GW didn't change. I think it even got worst !

The 29 of December I introduced 3 willow branches. After more than a month with GW, today the water is more clear !!!! And again it coincided with the first routs coming out of the branches.

It is just a great mystery !!! jejeje

Bye !!!

Juan

Juan


----------



## galettojm

Update:

Ayer 7 days with the willow branches the water is almost crystal clear.

Bye !

Juan


----------



## galettojm

Before introducing the willow branches:










8 days after inntroducing the willow branches:










Bye !

Juan


----------



## Iceterran

I just grabbed some willow branches (weeping I think) Its cold up here so their dormant, should I pull the buds off? Thanks


----------



## SKSuser

Iceterrain,
I believe that it would work better if you waited until the buds started to grow. Its worth a try, and please report back with your findings, but I think it'll work better if the branch isn't dormant. I think it works best with the new branches.


----------



## galettojm

Iceterran said:


> I just grabbed some willow branches (weeping I think) Its cold up here so their dormant, should I pull the buds off? Thanks


Iceterran,

I never tried the method with dormant branches. Please let´s us know how it develops. I guess it is not advisable to pull the buds off.

Bye !

Juan


----------



## Iceterran

I didn't pull the buds off, after about a week I noticed small roots, and the buds began to open. I pointed my lights in my room at the opening buds for about 12 hours on day 9, I came home to a CRYSTAL clear tank. This is magic.


----------



## Jeff.:P:.

Thats awesome I'm glad it worked out for you.


----------



## questor

I've read through this whole thread with great interest.

Back in the day, I used to use willow water to root cuttings for a high tech horticulture enterprise I had.

There are rooting hormones available, but this was an alternative that is organic.

The process was to take willow branches, twigs actually, and cut them into aprox 4" pieces and soak them in a pail of water for a couple weeks. I would use this water to start the cuttings in rockwool. Worked fantastic.

I suspect what is happening here with the GW is what one person suggested. The willow branches are adding this natural rooting hormone to the water. It not only causes the willow to root, but I suspect it adds to the root mass of the existing plants. 

Perhaps the cases where this method didn't seem to work is because there were either little or no other plants in the tank.

I saw one picture posted claiming failure, and it didn't look like a lot of plants in the tank with the GW and willow. ???

If I had a fully planted tank with GW, I would be tempted to make the tea, and add some of that elixir to the tank for a couple weeks. The idea is to assist the plants in the tank to develope more roots, and thus add to their uptake ability.

Just a thought.

I will have to induce GW to try it out.


----------



## hoppycalif

Plants absorb nutrients as well through the leaves as through the roots. So, growing more roots isn't much of an advantage to the plants, except for anchoring them. I think willow cuttings are just good at absorbing ammonia from the water, as a nutrient. It is, in my opinion, ammonia in the water, in very small quantities that causes green water.


----------



## questor

hoppycalif said:


> Plants absorb nutrients as well through the leaves as through the roots. So, growing more roots isn't much of an advantage to the plants, except for anchoring them. I think willow cuttings are just good at absorbing ammonia from the water, as a nutrient. It is, in my opinion, ammonia in the water, in very small quantities that causes green water.


I agree except, don't plants absorb nutrients through leaves and roots, not one or the other?

Why bother with ammended substrates if not?

Just curious.


----------



## hoppycalif

Yes, both roots and leaves are used by plants to get nutrients.


----------



## jazzlvr123

very interesting read. I currently have a 9 watt UV sterilizer running on a 75 gallon tank that has been setup for like 4 days. and the water still isn't clear. maybe ill try this willow technique. I like the idea of adding diatom powder to a hot magnum turning it into a diatom filter. I may just do that. Vaughn, you still have that HOT magnum? hehe


----------



## questor

Jazzlvr123, I am curious if it helps you out.

From my past experience, the willow has a natural hormone that forces/encourages root development.
I believe what is happening in clearing GW is that if there is a large plant mass already in the tank that 
the hormone forces more roots to develop, perhaps absorbing the excess ammonia.

Once the spring hits here in NY, I am going to test this theory out, using willow water.
I believe what delays the reaction is that used as suggested, putting twigs/branches in the tank, we are making the willow water in the tank. It may be quicker to use one of the willow water recipies one finds on the web and dose the tank with that.

I would guess one would have to weigh the root mass of a control tank along with the treated tank to see if root development is happening, and then also see if GW is cleared too. 

A start.


----------



## hoppycalif

jazzlvr123 said:


> very interesting read. I currently have a 9 watt UV sterilizer running on a 75 gallon tank that has been setup for like 4 days. and the water still isn't clear. maybe ill try this willow technique. I like the idea of adding diatom powder to a hot magnum turning it into a diatom filter. I may just do that. Vaughn, you still have that HOT magnum? hehe


Yes, I still have the HOT magnum filter. I'm thinking about changing my 10 gallon tank from a non-CO2, non-Excel tank to something with an emersed lawn of glosso. Maybe there is a trade that would work well for both of us? I barely ever use the filter, so it doesn't have much value for me anymore.


----------



## jazzlvr123

pm sent hoppy


----------



## OperJeff

Hello everyone,

I read this thread today and couldnt help but join in the conversation.

In my fish room I have goldfish grow out tanks and betta breeding tanks and also tanks that I grow a few different aquatic plants, but no show tanks... yet. I have also began a project buidling aquarium lighting, so I have been doing some reading on light wavelength and photosynthesis.

In my goldfish tanks I purposely grow green water because it helps the goldfish with their growth and for this I use a general purpose CFL bulb which has a wavelength more in the red range ~600+nm. so all I do is drop some goldfish pellets in the water and 4-5 days later I have pea soup.

I have since moved my planted tank next to the goldfish tank to share the light so I didnt have to buy a new one. assuming that if it grew green algae so well, than my riccia and glosso would do well also. Well in a few days that tank has turned to pea soup also. but over at my betta tank, I use CFL bulbs that are branded "soft daylight" (blueish light prob 450 - 550nm) because bettas dont like the intense lighting. the lumens output is roughly the same since i use multiple bulbs on that one, but the water is crystal clear. and has never had any algae.

I have since started to use the "soft daylight" bulbs for my planted tank and the plants are doing fine and the greenwater has not come back ( I did a 90% water change, when I swapped lights).

so from my experience, green water has more to do with using a red light spectrum like HID lighting, incandescent, or sulfur bulbs that promote flowering.

This thread has prompted me to do some googling and if you look at the chart in the middle of this page that shows the wavelength response for phycocyanin you can see that it responds to the red range of light.

http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/BioBookPS.html

this research article sums it up better

http://plankt.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/11/2/353

Im not going to make and direct recommendations as what you guys should do about your lighting because we all have different plants and fish in our tanks, and im sure that they will suffer some if not given the full spectrum of lighting in nature or close to it.

edit: also just wanted to add that this is a good active forum and I am learning alot from everyone that has posted. as for the willow solution, the salicylic acid excreted by the plant may have an effect on the cell wall of the algae causing to burst. not sure... prob need a chemist or biologist to look into it.


----------



## hoppycalif

The idea that light spectrum is a major contributer to algae growth is testable. To do that you would first need to set up 2 or more identical tanks, prove to yourself that you can keep them all algae free and stable. Then switch one or two tanks to the light spectrum you want to test. If you get significant algae in those tanks, but not in the "control" tank, that suggests that the spectrum is a problem. But, if you don't get significant algae in either of those tanks, it is virtually certain that the spectrum is not a problem. Of course, repeating this test a few times is best, also. But, above all else, you first have to determine that you can keep multiple identical tanks algae free.

I would be delighted if you decide to try this! We all have things to learn about algae.


----------



## jazzlvr123

hoppycalif said:


> The idea that light spectrum is a major contributer to algae growth is testable. To do that you would first need to set up 2 or more identical tanks, prove to yourself that you can keep them all algae free and stable. Then switch one or two tanks to the light spectrum you want to test. If you get significant algae in those tanks, but not in the "control" tank, that suggests that the spectrum is a problem. But, if you don't get significant algae in either of those tanks, it is virtually certain that the spectrum is not a problem. Of course, repeating this test a few times is best, also. But, above all else, you first have to determine that you can keep multiple identical tanks algae free.
> 
> I would be delighted if you decide to try this! We all have things to learn about algae.


yup, good idea tom barr is a big fan of creating a "control" tank to figure out algae issues for good reason, pretty much if you know how to induce the algae you subsequently know how to reduce it and or eliminate it all together. I highly doubt color temperature plays a role in algae growth


----------



## OperJeff

I can probably do this test on a smaller scale with 5gallon buckets. Ill stop by the hardware store tonight for some lights and the pet store for some guppies and set it up.


----------



## hoppycalif

Make sure the only significant difference in the lights is the spectrum, not the wattage or lumens, or the reflectors. This should be interesting.


----------



## OperJeff

I have both 5gal buckets setup. Both tanks have one feeder goldfish, equal aeration and the fish are fed exactly 4 pellets of goldfish food twice a day. 

There is a slight difference in the output of the bulbs, the hot bulb is 27watts and the cool bulb is 23 watts. Its not possible to match the wattage without building custom electrics for each. so these are the closest I could find. the lumens output is a difference of 300+ for the cooler bulb. Other than that the reflectors are the same and the time of exposure is the exactly the same ~16 hours a day.

Ill post pictures soon and wait for results in a few weeks.


----------



## galettojm

Hello,

As I've already posted, the willow method worked twice for me.

With my argentinean aquarium club (CROA) we are planning to do an experiment trying different types of substrates in 6 exactly identical tanks (using only inert sand, sand mixed with lateritic soil, sand mixed with black organic soil, etc.). One of the most important things we want to know is how the substrate affects the generation of GW.

After this experiment, that should last at least a couple of months, we want to use these tanks to try different types of lightning.

I am trying to convince the others to test also the willow method.

Bye,

Juan


----------



## fastang80

Nice thread. Very informative.


----------



## ShuLL

Hi fellas, been reading this thread with the utmost interest as i've been combating GW for the past 2-3 mths(and getting quite pissed in the process..lol)..

anyway, here's the background of my planted tank:

I'm running a 3x2x1.5ft tank, about 84Lit or 22Gal(US) with an overhead 55W florescent lighting. Previously when i'm using an overhead filter + DIY CO2, i've had no GW problems. But as with DIY CO2, plants growth are slow due to the inefficiency when dissolving the CO2.

Then, i made a switch to a canister filter with proper pressurized CO2+reactor running at 1bps, the CO2 dissolving rate increase tremendously, but within 1 day, the water turned to a cloudy white. At first, i attribute this to the new bacteria cycle due to the new filter system. But as the weeks goes by, the GW got worse, even as i change 50% water weekly.

The ferts i use are Flourish Pottasium, about 3-4ml every 3 days, 1 ppm of DIY KH2PO4 and 5 drops of LUSHGro-MICROSLiquid every water change.

This is the picture of my tank with the GW










It got so bad that not enough light are getting to my plants and my plants are dying. So i did 50% water change daily for the past 5 days and got to this. Hopefully, the plants will be getting enough lights to start growing and build up mass.










Also, i reduced my light from 6 hrs(12-6pm) to 4 hrs(2-6pm). Hopefully, to combat the algae growth.

This is a picture of my filter setup, if it helps.










I am suspecting that the problem might be the natural light the tank got as it is placed right beside the window.










Also, i can't get willow wood here since i stay in the tropics(3 deg north of equator). The only way is to import from temperate regions, which i forsee, will cost a bomb. But i do have lots of mangrove here. But i would like to use that as last resort.

I will update as the days goes by. And hopefully, can get some advise and tips from here.


----------



## fshfanatic

chiahead said:


> So do you just pour the D.E. (diatom powder)powder in the bottom of the HOT magnum???
> 
> If so, how much do you put in for lets say an 80 gallon tank?
> 
> Do you place it outside the micron filter or inside the middle sleeve of it?
> 
> I need to do this and I am in need of the knowledge also.


What I do is:
1: Assemble the HOT with the micron filter and place it on the tank and turn it on.
2: Run it until all the air is purged.
3: I then have a plastic "Mustard Bottle type" thingy I bought at the dollar store and fill it 1/4 full of DE and then top off with water and shake.
4: Hold bottle in tank and squeeze into the intake of the HOT.


----------



## Year Of The Dragon

very interesting read.

one thing to note that i have not read in this entire thread is the effect on PH for those that are using this method with a tank that has fish as well.

introducing acid (from the willow) will likely change the PH. i dont know if it is a significant amount, but it is still a change regardless and maybe something to think about for those of us who have fish that are sensitive to PH shifts.


----------



## galettojm

Year Of The Dragon said:


> very interesting read.
> 
> one thing to note that i have not read in this entire thread is the effect on PH for those that are using this method with a tank that has fish as well.
> 
> introducing acid (from the willow) will likely change the PH. i dont know if it is a significant amount, but it is still a change regardless and maybe something to think about for those of us who have fish that are sensitive to PH shifts.


Hi !

I tried the method several times and I did´t appreciate a dramatic change of PH. But my tank has very acid water (between 5 and 6).

Bye !

Juan


----------



## galettojm

ShuLL said:


> Also, i can't get willow wood here since i stay in the tropics(3 deg north of equator). The only way is to import from temperate regions, which i forsee, will cost a bomb. But i do have lots of mangrove here. But i would like to use that as last resort.
> 
> I will update as the days goes by. And hopefully, can get some advise and tips from here.


If willow is not accessible you could tried with a DIY UV filter. This is my experience:

http://www.croa.com.ar/ipb2/index.php?showtopic=9987

Bye !

Juan


----------



## Alex123

Ok this is drastic I tried black out for 3 days for my 20 and 10 gallon aquarium and the green water didn't change much. I know I read the part about doing it for 5 days maybe next time. However I did notice my anacharis grew 5-7 inches amazing! Anyhow, since my aquarium is small I decided to change pretty much all the water accept an inch and half at the bottom so I don't have to move the community fishes. It didn't take too long. No one suggested changing 90+% of the water. Anyhow, we'll see if this fixes the issue or not. From what I have read, the nutrients that induced the green water have been used up by the algae but the green water will remain unless killed or removed. Well this seemed like a straight forward way of doing that by removing most of the water. I don't know why this is not suggested as an option. I read it cause undue stress to the fish. I highly doubt that since it's the same water they are used to but cleaner. Anyhow, I hope the water will remain clear. I'll post back later.


----------



## Alex123

Ok just want to report that the water is under control after removing most of the water. The remaining green water I didn't remove caused the water to be a little bit hazy. But for the last 5 days it looks to be not getting worse. I have decided not to let it have direct sunlight currently, my tank is planted. If the water becomes crystal clear, I will open the blinds and let direct sunlight in. Actually my 10 gallon is almost crystal clear and my 20 is slightly hazy. It seems to be like than when I first set it up too as I can recall. It never was crystal clear like my 10 gallon.


----------



## Alex123

Another update. The water remains slightly hazy not clearing up. I can see from one end to the other but the haziness is just flat out annoying. I don't have any filter except a water pump to circulate the water. I have finally solved my green water problem though and this should be called the simple cheap method and don't have to wait for this dang 5 day blackout or expensive uv filter. I ran it for 5 hours and the water looks like doing a 80-90% water change on a green water tank. It's not crystal clear though. I'll see after 24 hours.


----------



## merk1_99

Well I am dealin with my green water with the willow method. Have have had gw for almost two weeks. So we will see what happens.


----------



## Amazon_Replica

Well let me admit, I thought this was BS but was sick of green water, over a month now, with no ferts. I removed my pea gravel purchased at a DIY center. Had some kind of nasty chemicals in there, made the fish discolor and sick. I've used pea gravel in the past but must've had a particularly bad batch. Anyway went with blue and black gravel from LFS. This caused one heck of an ammonia spike, off the charts. I had to pull the fish and wait. I figured, a week or two the tank would cycle what with all the plants in it. After 4 weeks it was worse, and seemed to be even worse with a water change. I thought about a diatom filter but don't have the funds there, and I saw this post and thought to myself, yea right lol.

I caught myself one day when I was driving, spotting out willow trees from the road. After a few days of actually noticing I was looking, I said ok, pulled over and snapped a good thick branch off.

In literally 4 days the water was just a bit hazy, after 1 week it is clear as ever, and the branch only has like 1-1.5 in roots on it. SO, long story short, it seems to have more than worked for me.

Very crude photos, from my phone sorry.

before









after









again, bad photos i know but gives the basic idea


----------



## dyollnave

I really hope the willow method works, I have terrible GW. I can only see about two inches into my tank so it will be nice to see something other than green water for a change. My cherries are pregnant so i really want to be able to see them.


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## lilypotter2009

Waterchanges does not work for fighting green water. I think the willow method works.


----------



## BettaGuy

Hello all - 

Do you think this will work for Hair Algae? I have a Nano which is infested with green water AND hair algae. It is heavily planted, lightly stocked, but it probably receives too much sunlight. And with such a small volume, things can get out of whack pretty fast.

The good thing is, I have rooted willow cuttings growing in vases, together with guppy fry. (The guppies keep the dengue mosquito wrigglers at bay - I'm in an endemic area.)

I'll try putting the rooted cuttings in the nano tank tomorrow. I only have two stems, with good roots, and new shoots. Anyway, it's just a 2 gallon tank. 

Sure, I can rip apart the tank and plant it out again, but it's fun to experiment.


Bettaguy


----------



## murdocmason

all i have to say is bravo insert award here______ =) thanks everyone here for your info i'm currently battling cloudy water for about a month now it gets cloudy during the evening more so today is day one of willow branches in the tank , ill take before and after photos and post parameters of the start date and the end date thx all again sincerely Doc Mason

Start date water parameters and photo

Tank size 25 gal

Nitrate/NO3 ==0-5 ppm

Nitrite/NO2 ==.3

Ammonia/NH3 & NH4 ==0

pH ==7.0

kH ==5 degrees

gH ==180

Carbon source ==DIY cO2 1 gallon jug @ 1bblps @ 15 ppm

Phosphate/PO4 ==0

Iron/Fe ==0-0.1

Ave Temp. ==79F

Filtration ==HOB whisper 400 series filter no carbon

Light ==Coralife 65w 50/50,10k bulb on for about 12 hours a day also recieves some natural sunlight early morning approx. 6-8 am

No special substrate,river sand

Ferts ==Seachem flourish, flourish tabs

about 20 in of fish so a nice heafty bioload

I do 20% wc every 3-5 days or sooner depending on tests also i use a hagen master test kit liquid reagents used to test water


----------



## dyollnave

Worked perfectly for my tank. Month after the water cleared and still going strong. Awesome.


----------



## RI chiclids

well chaulk up another success!went down to my secret large mouth bass spot ,shuffled out on to some downed trees couldnt get to any submerged stuff so cut some of this past years growth.the trees are all dormant now,i figured that this really wouldnt matter its the same principle of forcing bulbs,and it still worked equally as well 4 days with willow,a few hours with diatom and presto,CRYSTAL CLEAR.i gave the branches to my brother to see if it wil clear his tank to!!!!ill keep ya posted....


----------



## ryan10517

i tried it also. The willow worked GREAT. in 3 days my water went from not being able to see 3 inches into the water to absolutely crystal clear! i probably should have took some before and after pics but i was skeptical is was gonna work in the first place. And all my fish love playing in it too so its just a good deal. Thanks!


----------



## agy

Hello. Good ideas. But some body know what exact remove from water willow ?
If this method real work, i will try make live water conditioner(no cash for RO unit) in 2ft aquarium at my window and then regulary add water from 2ft to my 100gal tank. 
What do You think Guys ?


If some body can, please post Yours results after willow in clean water for some time(not in aquarium with stock) - what's water chemistry, how they change, ph, kh, gh, tds, e.g. ?


----------



## gabble

Oleg said:


> This method is free, it is natural (no chemicals). It is safe for fish and plants. It takes 5-8 days to completely get rid of green water (GW). It removes the cause of GW and some other algae. You don't need to stop dosing your fertilizer, you don't need to switch your lights off. You don't need to make any extra water changes, just proceed with your regular ones. Sounds like an ideal method to fight GW, maybe it is
> 
> The idea is taken from Russian aquarium forum at http://www.aqa.ru/forum/ and Wadim Lisovsky page at http://lis.aqa.ru/
> 
> OK, the magic word is WILLOW!
> 
> Here is my experience of using the willow in my 90G tank.
> I took few branches of willow tree. 1-2 years old branches 1/2 inch in diameter and 30-40 inches long will work. I used smaller ones as I couldn't find that thick.
> Put these branches into your tank and wait. In 3-5 days the willow will develop roots and water will start to clear at that time. 2-3 more days and you get a crystal clear water! At that time you should remove the willow or your plants will starve. That's all!
> 
> I think the willow can be also used for:
> 1. Fry tank.
> 2. Cichlid tank without plants.
> 3. For removing white bacterial cloudiness.
> I haven't try these myself though. If anyone wants to try please let us know the result.
> 
> Here is my conversation with Nikolay during the experiment. And some pictures. Unfortunately I started taking pictures only on day 6.
> 
> *****************
> 
> "I don't think that the willow is a magic thing - it just sucks nutrients like crazy.
> Nikolay"
> 
> "Sure, no magic. By my understanding the willow and some other trees consume NH3/NH4 (a major algae's food) much faster than aquatic plants. That helps to combat the cause of any algae bloom.
> I have a UV sterilizer, I used it few times to combat GW, it helped. But I don't like that bacterial equilibrium blows up along with GW.
> Well... I'll see in a few days if the willow really helps
> On a side note, I add nitrates and phosphates to my tanks and it never entails a GW bloom. This particular tank was nitrate limited (0 reading of NO3), I think that shifted the balance.
> Oleg"
> 
> "BGA is an algae that is closer to a bacteria. It is thought to develop as a result of low Nitrate. If that is true then maybe it makes sense to say that you and I may have bacterial bloom because my tank was very very low on Nitrate too.
> In any case I am very frustrated that after using a big diatom, flocculant, UV, and blackouts that bacteria didn't even go away a little.
> If the willow is indeed an ammonia sucking champion absorbing the smallest amount of ammonia as soon as it's released then I'm inclined to say that that is a great tool to use in the fight against algae.
> But from what I read you need certain branches, not just any branch, right?
> Nikolay"
> 
> "This morning I noticed a few new roots on some branches. And there is much less GW now!
> Oleg"
> 
> "Very nice pictures. Keep taking pictures every day. That will make a great post and maybe an interesting discussion on APC and on Aquaria.ru too.
> Nikolay"
> 
> "There are more roots this morning. And I can see the background pretty good. Note that this tank is 56cm wide.
> Oleg"
> 
> "This is clearing up very very well. I wonder if these results can be repeated.
> What about the white stuff that we think it's bacteria? Can you still see it?
> Nikolay"
> 
> "Unfortunately I can still see that white stuff. Or maybe it is just a dolomite powder I added recently (it is a very fine powder).
> Oleg"
> 
> "Do you mean diatom powder?
> 
> "Once I got some diatom powder that was too fine and the diatom filter couldn't run - the powder formed an impenetrable layer. But it never polluted the water.
> Nikolay"
> 
> "Here is a picture I took this morning. The water is completely clear. I moved the willow branches to another corner of the tank and I will remove them from the tank in few days.
> >Do you mean diatom powder?
> No, I meant "dolomite". I use it sometimes to increase carbonate hardness (KH). It dissolves very slow. It also helps shrimps and snails - many times I saw them ate dolomite. You can read about dolomite here:
> http://webmineral.com/data/Dolomite.shtml
> The dolomite I use is in a form of a very fine powder so it actually clouds the water.
> By the way I see neither white nor green cloudiness anymore.
> I am very happy with the result. I encourage you to try the "willow method" if you ever get GW.
> I believe it also can be used in a breading tank when fry actively feeding. Also I think it can be very useful in a cichlid tank.
> Oleg"
> 
> "Please before you do anything else check the N and P of the tank water.
> Nikolay"
> 
> "Nikolay, I am adding CaNO3 and KH2PO4 daily. So probably it will not tell us much if I check N and P now. What do you think?
> Oleg"
> 
> "Tom Barr has been saying lately that Ammonia in very low levels is the cause of algae, not the excess of any other nutrient. Maybe the willow sucks Ammonia like nothing else in the world. We don't know if Ammonia causes the green water, but obviously adding NO3 and PO4 doesn't help it stay.
> If Tom is right, and if the willow removes the small amounts of NH4 before they can cause algae, maybe it is logical to keep it in the tank at all times and at the same time to fertilize with NO3 and PO4 to feed the plants. I wonder if that could work in an extended period of time.
> It sounds like the perfect filter - instead of bacteria convertinga Ammonia to NO2 and NO3 the willow removes the Ammonia very agressively, before anyone can use it. No accumulation of NO3 in the water!!!
> Your results are very very interesting! Please post them on APC.
> Nikolay"
> 
> ">You have been adding NO3 and PO4 every day while trying to clean the green water?
> Yes.
> >Tom Barr has been saying lately that Ammonia in very low levels is the cause of algae, not the excess of any other nutrient.
> I agree. Limiting plants in any nutrient plus raising ammonia level plus strong light = GW
> >If Tom is right, and if the willow removes the small amounts of NH4 before they can cause algae, maybe it is logical to keep it in the tank at all times and at the same time to fertilize with NO3 and PO4 to feed the plants.
> It seems to me that the willow consumes nutrients so quickly that it would be a waste to keep it with plants all the time.
> I would try to keep it in a fry tank and in a cichlid tank.
> Oleg"


Hello. Having been thinking about trying willow in my aquarium for a while now as my background is gardening and ponds and have been searching internet for info. I finally found your posts on this forum and have decided to go ahead. I will endeavour to give you feedback on what happens.
gabby


----------



## Irida

I ve had a GW problem in an established tank after the tank had been moved to another city and then discovered one of the roots in the tank started to rot. It innocentluy started as a bacterial bloom, so I did a lot a WC and siphoning to reduce ammonia. My water wasnt even green, just blurry...

Then I read an article on http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/algae-allelopathy>

_In The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium, Diana Walstad reports the test results of A. P. Fitzgerald, who compared guppy tanks with and without Pithophora under 24/7 lighting, and found that the tanks without Pithophora turned green in a week, while those with Pithophora remained clear through a month's trial, even when phosphate and nitrate levels remained high. My own experience is utterly unscientific, but I find that tanks with some Pithophora are especially free of other kinds of more troublesome algae._

And the I opened DWs book again and dropped two little marimos in my tank.. The water is visibly clearing out with every WC. It seems to me that marimos stopped the GW, and not killied it. It dont believe this is just a coincidence. Has anyone else tried this?

P.S. i believe GDA also disappeared, it was present in traces over the front glass.. I havent changed my Mg dosing at all.


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## Annerbc

Hi. I have never posted anywhere before on anything but thought I must on this. I am a very new tropical fish keeper. I inherited them from my son. About two months ago my tank whet from clear to very very green. I tried everything except chemicals and was about to ditch it all in when I came across the willow method. My sons and everyone who saw what I was doing thought I was nuts. So I duly put the willow in the tank as instructed. After six days of not really seeing much change but with the white roots starting to show I very nearly took them out, but didn't as I was going away for the weekend. I returned two days later OMG the tank is very nearly crystal clear. I can see my fish again.


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## totziens

I've been struggling with green water for the last 9 months or even 1 year (I cannot recall exactly how long) in my outdoor tank. I didn't take any action against the algae because it went away by itself in the past but not the recent case. The situation was so bad that all the hornwort and elodea had to be thrown away because algae grew all over them leading them to rot. 

Recently, I tore down another indoor tank to be rescaped and happened to have a lot of Java ferns. At the same time, I took back some unwanted plants from my friend. I also transfered some Salvinia into the tank. It seems like the algae on the glass are dying off slowly and green water has disappeared. The amount of plants are really a lot. The extra nutrients must have been absorbed by a large number of plants to overcome the algae issue.


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## Capsaicin

Now to go find a Willow tree...


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## Flear

for green water, ... why not daphnia ?
every source i've read on water fleas suggests they are effective against green water, including one source that cultures daphnia using green water for food

as an added bonus you've got little bite-sized nibbled for the fish in your tank too

no idea now long it takes the little critters to clear up a tank, but it inspires me as it's chemical free and adds free food for the rest of the fish


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## totziens

The problem with daphnia in a tank with fishes is the daphnia would be eaten up before they could consume any green algae...hahaha. It only makes sense for a tank without any fish but I would not have any tank without any fish in the first place as I could be in a big trouble for breeding mosquitoes (this is illegal in many places or ....should I say it's illegal everywhere??).


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## CHFIII

LOL... so here's a side note.... I am actually looking for ways to grow green water more densely because I have 8 vats of Daphnia and Moina to feed and with Winter coming I am culturing the GW in the garage. If you have a lot of GW then get a starter culture of daphnia and siphon off a gallon of GW for them every day then start using a net with fairly wide holes to harvest the larger ones and stick'm in your tank... your fish will love you. Right now I need about 20G of dense GW daily to keep the daphnia cultures greenish....


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## CHFIII

PS, there is a willow around the block from me. Must go steal a few branches tonight and stick'm in some refugiums - I have been looking for some major nutrient hogs for the refugiums connected to some of my breeder tanks but water lettuce and hyacinth are not legal in Tejas... Willow? Worth a shot, thanks! BTW - I use Pothos hanging off the back of tanks as a veggie filter and cord/filter hider and that grows like crazy with nice rich aquarium water to feed it.


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## fistic

I wonder if willow roots will not consume the oxygen of the water


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## Vivien Leigh

Oleg said:


> This method is free, it is natural (no chemicals). It is safe for fish and plants. It takes 5-8 days to completely get rid of green water (GW). It removes the cause of GW and some other algae. You don't need to stop dosing your fertilizer, you don't need to switch your lights off. You don't need to make any extra water changes, just proceed with your regular ones. Sounds like an ideal method to fight GW, maybe it is
> 
> The idea is taken from Russian aquarium forum at http://www.aqa.ru/forum/ and Wadim Lisovsky page at http://lis.aqa.ru/
> 
> OK, the magic word is WILLOW!
> 
> Here is my experience of using the willow in my 90G tank.
> I took few branches of willow tree. 1-2 years old branches 1/2 inch in diameter and 30-40 inches long will work. I used smaller ones as I couldn't find that thick.
> Put these branches into your tank and wait. In 3-5 days the willow will develop roots and water will start to clear at that time. 2-3 more days and you get a crystal clear water! At that time you should remove the willow or your plants will starve. That's all!
> 
> I think the willow can be also used for:
> 1. Fry tank.
> 2. Cichlid tank without plants.
> 3. For removing white bacterial cloudiness.
> I haven't try these myself though. If anyone wants to try please let us know the result.
> 
> Here is my conversation with Nikolay during the experiment. And some pictures. Unfortunately I started taking pictures only on day 6.
> 
> *****************
> 
> "I don't think that the willow is a magic thing - it just sucks nutrients like crazy.
> Nikolay"
> 
> "Sure, no magic. By my understanding the willow and some other trees consume NH3/NH4 (a major algae's food) much faster than aquatic plants. That helps to combat the cause of any algae bloom.
> I have a UV sterilizer, I used it few times to combat GW, it helped. But I don't like that bacterial equilibrium blows up along with GW.
> Well... I'll see in a few days if the willow really helps
> On a side note, I add nitrates and phosphates to my tanks and it never entails a GW bloom. This particular tank was nitrate limited (0 reading of NO3), I think that shifted the balance.
> Oleg"
> 
> "BGA is an algae that is closer to a bacteria. It is thought to develop as a result of low Nitrate. If that is true then maybe it makes sense to say that you and I may have bacterial bloom because my tank was very very low on Nitrate too.
> In any case I am very frustrated that after using a big diatom, flocculant, UV, and blackouts that bacteria didn't even go away a little.
> If the willow is indeed an ammonia sucking champion absorbing the smallest amount of ammonia as soon as it's released then I'm inclined to say that that is a great tool to use in the fight against algae.
> But from what I read you need certain branches, not just any branch, right?
> Nikolay"
> 
> "This morning I noticed a few new roots on some branches. And there is much less GW now!
> Oleg"
> 
> "Very nice pictures. Keep taking pictures every day. That will make a great post and maybe an interesting discussion on APC and on Aquaria.ru too.
> Nikolay"
> 
> "There are more roots this morning. And I can see the background pretty good. Note that this tank is 56cm wide.
> Oleg"
> 
> "This is clearing up very very well. I wonder if these results can be repeated.
> What about the white stuff that we think it's bacteria? Can you still see it?
> Nikolay"
> 
> "Unfortunately I can still see that white stuff. Or maybe it is just a dolomite powder I added recently (it is a very fine powder).
> Oleg"
> 
> "Do you mean diatom powder?
> 
> "Once I got some diatom powder that was too fine and the diatom filter couldn't run - the powder formed an impenetrable layer. But it never polluted the water.
> Nikolay"
> 
> "Here is a picture I took this morning. The water is completely clear. I moved the willow branches to another corner of the tank and I will remove them from the tank in few days.
> >Do you mean diatom powder?
> No, I meant "dolomite". I use it sometimes to increase carbonate hardness (KH). It dissolves very slow. It also helps shrimps and snails - many times I saw them ate dolomite. You can read about dolomite here:
> http://webmineral.com/data/Dolomite.shtml
> The dolomite I use is in a form of a very fine powder so it actually clouds the water.
> By the way I see neither white nor green cloudiness anymore.
> I am very happy with the result. I encourage you to try the "willow method" if you ever get GW.
> I believe it also can be used in a breading tank when fry actively feeding. Also I think it can be very useful in a cichlid tank.
> Oleg"
> 
> "Please before you do anything else check the N and P of the tank water.
> Nikolay"
> 
> "Nikolay, I am adding CaNO3 and KH2PO4 daily. So probably it will not tell us much if I check N and P now. What do you think?
> Oleg"
> 
> "Tom Barr has been saying lately that Ammonia in very low levels is the cause of algae, not the excess of any other nutrient. Maybe the willow sucks Ammonia like nothing else in the world. We don't know if Ammonia causes the green water, but obviously adding NO3 and PO4 doesn't help it stay.
> If Tom is right, and if the willow removes the small amounts of NH4 before they can cause algae, maybe it is logical to keep it in the tank at all times and at the same time to fertilize with NO3 and PO4 to feed the plants. I wonder if that could work in an extended period of time.
> It sounds like the perfect filter - instead of bacteria convertinga Ammonia to NO2 and NO3 the willow removes the Ammonia very agressively, before anyone can use it. No accumulation of NO3 in the water!!!
> Your results are very very interesting! Please post them on APC.
> Nikolay"
> 
> ">You have been adding NO3 and PO4 every day while trying to clean the green water?
> Yes.
> >Tom Barr has been saying lately that Ammonia in very low levels is the cause of algae, not the excess of any other nutrient.
> I agree. Limiting plants in any nutrient plus raising ammonia level plus strong light = GW
> >If Tom is right, and if the willow removes the small amounts of NH4 before they can cause algae, maybe it is logical to keep it in the tank at all times and at the same time to fertilize with NO3 and PO4 to feed the plants.
> It seems to me that the willow consumes nutrients so quickly that it would be a waste to keep it with plants all the time.
> I would try to keep it in a fry tank and in a cichlid tank.
> Oleg"


I've added 3 branches to my tank and blacked it out. I SO hope this works. I have a willow tree in my back yard so easy access needless to say. I've had a crystal clear 65 gallon tank up until about 2 weeks ago then BAM, GW. Very frustrating. I've changed the water to no avail, came right back the next morning. UGH. This is my first experience with GW. Not fun.


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## Vivien Leigh

Day 3 with willow branches and black out. NOTHING. Tank looked just as bad as when I started this procedure.
Bought GW fighter and BOOM, in an hour my tank was clearing up. It's now 6 hours later and my tank is crystal clear. NO sign of algae or GW anywhere. 
So, obviously the willow branches and blacking it out for several days does nothing for GW.
Complete waste of 3 days and putting my fish through suffering through that ick. Not to mention lost a beautiful fish in the process. 
Last time I will follow a process like this.


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## ap_amir

Hi all

i used 6 willow branches in 4 week in my 35 gal tank and gw removed and my water is crystal clear


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## ecpreston

My 10 gallon was can't-see-through-it-green for 3+ months. Tried a total blackout for 4 days, did nothing other than make the plants look sadder. Put in three small sprigs from a willow and it was clear in 72 hours!

day 1


day 2


day 3


Thank you!


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## filofilo

Just a thought. maybe someone else already said that and I've missed in the 20 pages of this post. Willow trees contain salicylic acid. Salicylate is also the active ingredient of an anti algae product like Algaexit from Easylife (which works also against GW). Maybe salycilic acid is the trick?


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## Cddenney

I was sceptical at first but gave it a shot. In 3 days went from water that was so green you couldn't see the other side of my 90 gallon aquarium to crystal clear water , it was absolutely amazing. I had spent$50 on chemicals that did not work and this cost nothing and worked amazing. A big thanks!!


----------



## Cddenney

I was a bit skeptical but within 3 days my water went from so green I couldn't see the back of my tank in my 90 gal to crystal clear. I didn't cover it just had the lights on less. I had spent $50 on chemicals that did not work. So impressed. Thanks!!


----------



## Cddenney

I was skeptical at first but within 3 days my aquarium went from being so green I couldn't see the back of my tank to crystal clear. I didn't turn out my light or cover. I had spent $50 on chemicals that did nothing. Big thanks!!


----------



## Luminescent

I posted this on another green algae topic a few days ago:
----------------------------

Salicylic acid is an algaecide. It works by blocking the Phosphate from use by the algae. The reason it works best when the willow begins rooting is because the roots are where the Salicylic acid resides. http://www.wef.org/PublicInformation/page.aspx?id=775

So, I have a tank that I inoculated with spirulina last night. By this morning the water was a lovely green color. I am going to experiment by putting two plain, 400mg aspirin (40 Gallon) in the tank along with a teaspoon of Bicarbonate (to rebalance the ph) to test the effect.

Most of the plants are rather plain stem-cuttings that I am not particularly worried about losing.

There are no fish or inverts in the tank and it is running a 300gph powerhead with an 8x4x4 pond sponge.

I'll post pics if someone has an interest in how it's going.

Update: Dissolved 800mg Bayer plain aspirin with bicarbonate of soda (stomach protecting) in half cup of warm water - added it a little at a time over an hours period and 2 days later the tank was clear.


----------



## ckostac

Hi there, It looks like it's been a while since anyone's posted here, but since the thread been going for a few years, I'll see if anyone's still out there. I just set up a 135 gallon tank w/40gallon sump. The water has started turning green. Not bad yet, but it is there. Anyway, I have LOTS of Willows available, but here's my question: It seems the tanks clear up as the roots develop. Would it work, or speed up the process any if I were to just use a piece of willow root right from the start? For most people the branch would be easier, but I have a huge willow that a storm recently blew over and access to roots is quite easy. Thoughts? Also, the tank has only been going for about a week, and the substrate has been disturbed several times. Could this even just be part of normal cycling? I'm new to the whole planted tank thing. I'd be happy to give more info if anyone is out there is interested. I have read all 20 pages in this thread, so for now my question isn't how to get rid of the GW, but whether or not using the root will be any faster than the branch, or if it will even work at all.


----------

