# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Dwarf sag vs micro swords?



## Myaj (Aug 25, 2004)

Is there a way to easily tell these two plants apart?

I have a grassy plant that spreads like crazy, and it was sold to me as dwarf sag, but I want to be sure its not micro swords. I'm not a plant expert, so if there's a pretty plain to see difference between the two I thank anyone who can tell me what to look for









I'm new here, but I should have come by a long time ago... I just got used to asking Vicki any plant questions I had and now....







anyone who knew Vicki knows what I mean.

Well, thank you all in advance!

Amy


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## Myaj (Aug 25, 2004)

Is there a way to easily tell these two plants apart?

I have a grassy plant that spreads like crazy, and it was sold to me as dwarf sag, but I want to be sure its not micro swords. I'm not a plant expert, so if there's a pretty plain to see difference between the two I thank anyone who can tell me what to look for









I'm new here, but I should have come by a long time ago... I just got used to asking Vicki any plant questions I had and now....







anyone who knew Vicki knows what I mean.

Well, thank you all in advance!

Amy


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## 2la (Feb 3, 2003)

Hi Amy,

Take a look at this topic from another forum and see if it helps at all:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2458


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## Myaj (Aug 25, 2004)

*snork* Hey 2la, it never occured to me to just PM you and see if you knew (this is Buddy from AquaDen). Thanks, I'll check out the link!


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Hey Buddy, Welcome! 
If by microsword you mean Lilaeopsis, it stays real short and thin, like 2 or 3" max. Dwarf sag can get up to 6 or 8" tall and is a much wider leaf. Dwarf sag will be much smaller if you have very low light and no C02.


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## Myaj (Aug 25, 2004)

I'm pretty sure its dwarf sag, thanks guys. Some of it has gotten pretty tall, around 6" or more.


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## Myaj (Aug 25, 2004)

Just realized I meant CHAIN swords, not micro swords... sorry about that. Would that be about the same as microswords, just taller, little larger?


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## 2la (Feb 3, 2003)

Whoops! I assumed you said chain swords originally, but thankfully your wrong plus my wrong made a right!









Microsword, or Lilaeopsis, rarely exceeds about 2" in height. Microsword is best distinguished from the other two species in that it produces single alternate leaves along the runner, rather than a rosette of leaves along the runner as the other two species do.


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## imported_BSS (Apr 14, 2004)

Hmmm. I'm starting to think the distinction between Dwarf sag and E. tenelleus (this is chain sword, right?) is pretty subtle. Per the link earlier in the post, I can see the brighter vein and the upwards pointing tips. I think what I have is more similar to another recent link in this forum (http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=4006090712&f=1306023812&m=475107937&r=110105947#110105947), and it states the foreground plant is dwarf sag. I can't see the vein in the picture, but the tips do start to point downward. So, would most any downward turn tend to suggest dwarf sag?

P.S. My foreground stand of "this plant"







has recently gotten real thick and some of the normal 2-3" growth has shot up towards 6+".


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## 2la (Feb 3, 2003)

It's not that subtle a distinction, perhaps just harder to describe than it actually is. Notice in the link you provided how blunt the tips are, whereas in the link I provided the leaf blade tapers down to a sharper ("more acute") tip. This is another point of distinction. Also just going by a 'general sense' of these plants, the chain sword should strike you as more 'traditionally' grass-like, while dwarf sag gives you the impression of a 'fountaining' of leaves that arch back toward the substrate, like a common household spider plant.

This is an image of what may be emersed dwarf sag (been a long time since I've kept this species), but notice how less distinct the central veins are as well as their blunter tips:
http://photos.fishindex.com/plants/7960.jpg

Notice how even in this low-quality image (jiminy, it's hard finding good pictures on the Internet!







) that the leaf tips are clearly sharper and the central vein more distinct:
http://www.plantedtank.net/images/plants/pygmychainsword.jpg


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Here is dwarf sag










Echinodorus tenellus, (pigmy chain sword) can sometimes get just as tall, but the leaves are thinner. There are different varieties of tenellus. Some have very thin leaves, almost hair like. There is also a shorter variety. When tenellus is grown emersed by the nursery it is much taller and often has seed pods on the plant when you buy it. This is what the common tenellus grown in Florida looks like. I sell an imported version called micro tenellus. It stays shorter. Is that more confusing?


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## imported_BSS (Apr 14, 2004)

I'll definitely go home and check for the distinct vs. no vein and the sharp vs. rounded tips. Thanks for the detail and the pictures!!

Brian.


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## Myaj (Aug 25, 2004)

ROFL.. now I'm confused again, mine doesn't look anything like the pic of dwarf sag that 2la posted, but just like the chain swords (or is that 2nd pic still sag 2la?), but it does look like the sag that RobertH posted. I'm just going to have to suck up my embarrasment and get you guys a picture (lots of algae lately, I've been slacking on my CO2)... I was really hoping it was dwarf sag and not chain swords, though I honestly don't know why I was hoping that... Any pros/cons between the two?


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Here is tenellus


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## 2la (Feb 3, 2003)

LOL, okay, let's see if I can find some better examples. You're killing me, you know this, buddy?...









Dwarf sag:
http://www.fishpalace.org/S_subulata.html
http://lucky.olomouc.com/plants/images/sagittaria_subulata.jpg
http://www.biofil.pl/Rosliny/Akwariowe/Pictures/Maxi/sagisubulata.jpg
http://www.aquaonline.com.br/plantas/plantas.php?planta=45
http://homepages.compuserve.de/wasserpflanzen/galerie/divers/s_subulata.htm
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Sagittaria.html
http://atlas.drpez.org/Sagittaria-subulata
http://home.t-online.de/home/Hermann_weiss/Sagittar.html

Pygmy chain sword:
http://www.findfish.nl/waterplanten1/pages/Echinodorus_tenellus_jpg.htm (good picture of emersed growth, as Robert described)
http://www.antilo.com/acuario2/plantas_de_acuario/echinodorus_tenellus/
http://atlas.drpez.org/tenellus
http://lucky.olomouc.com/foreground/tenellus/echinodorus%20tenellus.htm
http://www.kara-inci.nl/echinodorus%20telellus.html
http://hebert.phil.free.fr/Aquarium/Vie/page31.html
http://www.israquarium.co.il/Plants/Echinodorus%20tenellus.html

That's all I could muster five to seven pages deep into Google...

As for pros and cons, my preference is for pygmy chain sword for it's less unruly appearance and somewhat more consistent height, though I'd use it as more as a midground filler than a foreground. Dwarf sag can get up to a foot tall if not more and just looks rather untidy for my tastes. I also prefer the gradually tapering leaves of pygmy chain sword to the blunt-tipped leaves of dwarf sag, but again that's just my preference.


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## Momotaro (Feb 17, 2004)

Has anyone else noticed a difference in the texture of the plants?

Pygmy chain sword is a softer plant. there is less rigidity to the leaves. They bend easier underhand. The leaves are smoother.

Dwarf Sag is a tougher plant. The leaves have a stronger structure to them. The leaves have a ridged appearance.

Kind of a kooky way to look at it, but I have found it helpful!

Mike


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## Myaj (Aug 25, 2004)

Sorry 2la, I'm driving myself nuts over it as well... I finally make up my mind and then say, but no, it doesn't look that wide and rounded... no, it doesn't have the central vein...


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## imported_BSS (Apr 14, 2004)

Taking a good look at mine, it had the rounded tops and the darker to non-existant central vein. So, mine is the dwarf sag. Thanks for the education!


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## 2la (Feb 3, 2003)

buddy, see if you can get a couple of good pictures of it, one of them being a well-focused closeup. Hopefully it will be easier to illustrate the differences with both of us looking at the same thing.


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