# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Questioning Eco-Complete



## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Well, people keep on talking about how good Eco-Complete is...but how do we know how long the nutrients last before they are depleted? And is it believable that it actually transfers nutrients from the water down into to the substrate? How could a substrate just divide into 3 layers?! What are the benefits off adding additives under commercial substrates if the the commercial substrates already supply these nutrients?


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Well, people keep on talking about how good Eco-Complete is...but how do we know how long the nutrients last before they are depleted? And is it believable that it actually transfers nutrients from the water down into to the substrate? How could a substrate just divide into 3 layers?! What are the benefits off adding additives under commercial substrates if the the commercial substrates already supply these nutrients?


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## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

You ask a good question. So far, this product is relatively new to the market compared to others such as Fluorite series by Seachem. I am using one myself and cannot really tell you how good it is. However, from what I can observe from the plants I guess it is having some beneficial effects on them. Still, the best way to know is if you try it out yourself and form your own opinions because no matter how good or bad a certain product is, there will always be disagreements among them. 


Paul


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

I am using Eco-complete in one of my planted tanks. The nutrients go away after a while but no one knows exactly how long they last(no one I have spoke with anyway). So after about a month I started fertilizing just to be safe. We also suspect that this product made the water hard in the begining. I perfer using Seachem flourite which is in my other tank.


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## tsunami06 (Feb 6, 2003)

The nutrients last as long as the nutrients
last in flourite. In fact, just like flourite,
I suspect eco-complete only gets better as it
ages due to the accumulation of mulm and
detritus. 

The substrate divides into three layers due
to the differently sized granules. Try it
yourself with a more extreme case -- sand
and regular aquarium gravel. The aquarium
gravel gradually sifts to the top and the
sand sifts down toward the bottom.

As for the third question, well, because
it makes my life easier. I don't have to be
fretting over dosing and skipping a nutrient
dosage for whatever reason. If you are a
control freak and try to tinker with
nutrient levels every night, well, then
straight out aquarium gravel and total
dependence on the water column are right
for you. 

Eco-complete is a better product, IMO, than
Flourite for the following reasons:

1) pleasing dark, black color unlike flourite
which gave a yellowish cast to the tank due
to the reddish color
2) smaller, rounder, softer granules that 
are less abrasive on the hands. Easier to
plant in.
3) You don't have to rinse it. Just open the
bag and add... and the water is crystal clear
from day 1. No dust, no cloudy water, etc.

Carlos

-------------------------
"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced." -- Van Gogh


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## lsuber (Dec 15, 2003)

I'm very interested in this thread. I started up my 90-gal tank just as EcoComplete came on the market (or just as it was available to me anyway). Being aware of both it's claims and unproven history, I decided to hedge my bets and mix it 50/50 with Flourite. That way I get the benefits of each substrate, and the final product looks great as a natural blend. I will second the statement above of messiness. Flourite is a pain to deal with, and the water took a solid 24 hours to clear even using it 50/50. The EcoComplete couldn't have been easier to handle.


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## Wheeler (Feb 8, 2004)

Keep in mind,

None, of these "one shot" substrates are going to give you great results from the start. As Carlos hinted at, there's no real organic matter to activate these substrates until some time goes by and mulm/detritus/dead fish and snails/ etc get in there and gunk it up.

Flourite is *worthless* without some kind of organic matter-- fired clays have been rendered virtually inert anyway. Certainly any Fe available to plants has been destroyed. Eco-complete is made from volcanic material which is better, but not perfect by itself.

I believe that Eco-Complete, in order for RedSea to be able to put the exact elemental content on the package, has been treated after being mined with some manner of liquid fertiliser to garuantee its content. Volcanic material should be porous enough to hold onto this (I would think).

If you wanted to speed up this "activating" process, simply add some organic material. Peat, mulm, soil, worm poop, guano-- are all examples of organic matter. Peat and mulm are safest with regards to stuff getting out and causing algae or killing your fish. The latter 3 are very volatile and could cause problems if you're not sure of what's going on.

I've gotten great results with plain gravel-- after it gets all mulmed up, it's as good as Flourite and it looks better. I'm trying all kinds of different stuff now, and I have to say that I love the look of Eco-Complete. I'll use that again just for appearance if for nothing else









Best wishes,
John Wheeler


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

I do agree with everyone that Eco-complete is much easier to use no rinsing required just open the bag and pour it in with no clouding of the water. The flourite is a mess I had to rinse it over and over again and it still cloudy the water. So I ended up sihponing the flourite intill it came out as clear as possible. Then I poured water into a bowl when filling the tank. This really help cut down on the cloudness of the water. With this proccess the water cleared in a few hours. A lot of work I know. I also mixed a small natural gravel in with my flourite and added Florish tabs before adding my plants.


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Then why do renoun(sp?) aquarists, such as Amano, George Booth and the likes use more traditional methods? Would using their methods(addtives topped with sand) be just as good of a choice?


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## tsunami06 (Feb 6, 2003)

Takashi Amano?

He uses the exact same method. In fact, I believe he is the one who started the idea of putting a layer of peat/mulm in the bottom layer and capping it with a a more inert substrate. Yes, even before Barr ever did it.









The "Amano Substrate System:"

Powersand, basically a peat+pumice mixture with possibly laterite and other nutritional goodies. It's a base fertilizer like Fertiplant and Aquabasis. This product is the bottom layer.

On top of this layer, he sprinkles activated bacteria and activated charcoal. The bacteria to start up the tank quickly; the activated charcoal as a water clarifier.

Finally, he caps this thin layer with a thick(3 inch?) layer of ADA Aquasoil -- which is like a softer, brown version of Eco-complete(also resembles Florabase).

Takashi Amano does not add any N or P into his water column through liquid fertilization... at least not for the first few months. He does however dose K+ through Brighty K and Fe/micros through his Step 1 fertilizer.

As for George Booth... he uses (used?) a system that was very popular before Flourite came out. Duplarit (expensive laterite) capped with regular aquarium gravel.

Carlos

-------------------------
"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced." -- Van Gogh


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Actually there is something in Eco Complete to activate the nutrients. Its packed in Amazon Black water. Black water is made from peat, bark, and tannin. These organic acids make nutrients like iron water soluble very quickly, making it much easier for the plants to use them. It is also packed with live bacteria, which not only helps to cycle the tank, but make the minerals more soluble.

Robert
King admin
www.aquabotanic.com


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

So basically, if I add Aquabasis as a bottom layer...then cover it with Eco-Complete, this would make an ideal substrate? Ok, so for a 75g I would need 7.5l of Aquabasis; then I just cover it with the normal amount of Eco-Complete normally used(7bags)? Carlos, do you use this substrate mix in your tanks; is there any noticable difference when growing plants in this particular substrate mix?


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Wheeler:
> Flourite is *worthless* without some kind of organic matter
> ...


I agree with John!

I find size is most important, then color!
Add lots of mulm to the tank first!

I can grow crypts like weeds in epoxy coated gravel! 
Mulm is all that is needed!
You do not need to spend more than $10 on substrate for a tank 50 gallons or less!!

I've been using "stone dust" (light gray)lately,
66lbs for $4!!
Just as good as all the rest!!

Sorry had to have been said with all this Eco-complete talk lately!!

Regards,
Mike Morrissey

---------------
*My Digital Gallery*

*Aquabay.ca*


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Yes I do...There is so many differant combo's that aquarist use. It all depends on your preference and the look you want to create.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

What is Aquabasis?

Robert
King admin
www.aquabotanic.com


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Aquabasis is a substrate additive just like Dupla, but unlike Dupla it contains more than just iron..it contains trace elements. Here's the link to buy it, JBL Aquabasis. They sell the 5l bag for about $12.

Ekim, you basically saying...it doesn't whether it's a cheap substrate or a commercial substrate, the most important factor to growth is the accumalating mulm? Any evidence to prove it..pics?


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Raul-7,
yeah that's what I'm saying!
Of course water fertilization is a must!

I'll take some pics tonight for you,
One of my "crypt" (all root feeders) tank with normal epoxy coated gravel and the other is a 20 gallon with "stone dust" or " paver base" that has glosso that needs to be trimmed weekly!

Regards,
Mike Morrissey

---------------
*My Digital Gallery*

*Aquabay.ca*


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## Wheeler (Feb 8, 2004)

I'm a hard headed aquarist-- actually I'm just hard headed, so it took some time for me to come to some common sense conclusions:

There are a ton of ways to skin a cat. However, it just makes sense to put the plants in an environment that most closely resembles "home" that you can bear with and keep things nice (tidy). Despite a years worth of tinkering with plain gravel, I can't *quite* get my plants to look as good as ones that use a really fertile base layer. I thought for sure that I could, and maybe I'm just missing a piece or 2 of the puzzle. However, if I can use the substrate to help me find those pieces that's what I'm going to do.

I believe in my heart of hearts that to succeed with elevated lighting you *have* to use a seriously enriched bottom with a deep cap. Eco-Complete is a GREAT cap, but gravel will work just fine. I've seen alot of really nice hight light soil tanks lately... all capped in gravel.

Robert, you're right about the juice that comes with EC being an activator, but it can't have the same "punch" as peat or other organic. Serious Fe reduction needs decaying matter...

Best wishes,
John Wheeler


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Raul-7,
here is the photos,

http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=4006090712&f=1306023812&m=2676056645

http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=4006090712&f=1306023812&m=1576056645

Also check my sig for more photos!

Regards,
Mike Morrissey

---------------
*My Digital Gallery*

*Aquabay.ca*


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