# mangrove-like plants ?



## Flear

are there any mangrove like plants for an aquarium ?, either submerged or emerged ?

can get an actual mangrove tree/sapling acclimated to freshwater, ... but that's a tree. granted trees take a long time till they would outgrow the aquarium, well aquarium time anyway.

while this is a drawing someone has made, it's about what i would like to find









something 'bush' size or smaller would be nice 

not that a 60foot tall tree is out of the question, it's just got some obvious limitations


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## totziens

I believe most of the mangrove trees are too big. So they don't fit into a tank. If "small trees" that can fit into a tank exists, I believe it would have been widely used in the aquariums in my country. In brackish water, you maybe able to keep these trees alive. In freshwater, I doubt so.


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## Flear

i didn't do a large search, but what i came across mentioned that one seller of mangrove shoots has them aclimitized to freshwater.

i'm not in doubt, per say, but welcome to marketing.

as a lack of people talking about "hey i've got a mangrove tree in my aquarium"

on one forum someone asked "how fast do they grow?", that was years ago, no reply
someone somewhere said they grow slow, ... that could mean a lot of things too, is slow 1foot a year, is slow compaired to faster growing trees.

the lack of people commenting about their own experience has me hessitant, ... but definitly i'll have to keep looking and keep this thread updated to anything i find, hopefully get feedback and more knowledge and info, hopefully even experiences of others.

for everything i would like to put in a tank, this is among the top for sure plants though, just not going to accept it wants 8' tall after even 3 years (that would be something like i'd need a new tree every year 
but if it takes 10 years, to reach say 6feet, that's 4 years it's usable indoors, although where i live after that it's of little value other than firewood or cut down for aquarium wood


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## kyle2088

Hello

I have grown my mangroves in freshwater. Started them from seeds. In order for them tl start growing they need to be fully underwater. Within about 5 months you get 2 little leaves shoot out the top and roots start growing. I started them in seachem iron substrate and high lights and co2 but dont know if that is absolutely required.

Once 2 leaves come out grow them in styrofoam so the 2 leaves are above water for faster growth. After about 1 year i planted them emersed. In soil and sealed container with lots of fresh water.


I foud them slow growing. I put them outside in summer and indorrs in winter and have about 8 leaves now. 5 years later. Sometimes some leaves die back when acclimatizing.

Mangroves from what i know reject sodium in salt water they dont use it. And may need more magnesium then other plants.

However switching from salt water to freshwater may be difficult for plant and vice versa.

I started 200 red mangroves under water and 180 lived

If the tops get too high you can always cut back leaves but leave at least 2 leafs


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## Flear

kyle how fast do they grow ?

how long would it take to reach 4feet tall (4feet above the water), how much of that is roots that have branched out ?, how thick are the roots in the water ? (enough for the fish to swim around or could they pretend to hide and play around ?)

how wide did the roots grow? (area covered), how thick was your substrate ? what did you use for substrate ?


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## kyle2088

Well mine are about 5 years old now and about 2 ft high with about 8 leaves. They grew to 1 ft in 5 years.To me in fresh water they grow very slowly. Again because I move them outside then inside for the winter and occassionally a few leaves fall off and a few grow this can be slowing the growth along with acclimitization periods. Summer in Toronto outside in full sun get the best growth for about 5 months then move inside beside a window no direct light all winter. I am actually surprised they stay alive.

I think if they remained in the aquarium under constant high light with at least 2 leaves out of the water and proper ferts they would grow faster. They are trees and feed alot so getting the proper ferts down pat could be problematic if you are concerned with algae (its easy to feed a alot, but too much ferts could lead to algae growth). But if you are content with slow steady growth, it is very easy. I have gone days weeks and months without adding ferts to the aquarium just fish and they survived.

I have heard of people using styrofoam to float mangrove seedlings near the surface. They hang/float vertical. The roots float in the water column to take up nutrients. This is to get the roots to grow down to the substrate like the picture you show in the first post

k


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## Flear

what temperatures are you dealing with indoors (winter) and outdoors (summer) ?
how wide is the root base your mangrove has taken over ?, 3feet across ?, more? less?

nope, not concerned with algae, not before the fact anyway, ... and after-the-fact there are various fish & shrimp & snails to deal with it then they get to eat lots.

in nature (i think they were talking about the root system alone), 15feet tall, 30feet wide above & below ground, the trees themselves growing over 60feet tall.

Kyle as your finding yours has taken it 5 years to grow 2 feet tall, ... that's easily doable for an indoor plant in my mind  for my tank idea, ... unfortuantly, it's got about 2.5 feet diameter for root base area and i'd consider that a very happy size for what i want to do.


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## asukawashere

You might actually have better luck making a fake tree using some really branchy root driftwood for the base and affixing some kind of epiphyte (terrestrial or aquatic, depending on the circumstances) to the top part. You'd get your "mangrove root" effect immediately (as opposed to growing an actual mangrove, which might take years for the roots to branch the way you want) and without fear of it eventually overgrowing its bounds. That'd be my preferred approach to getting a mangrove effect in a tank, anyway.

Also, FWIW, willows are another tree that will root in water, but they grow far more rapidly than mangroves and their root systems will overtake your tank in a year or two. On the plus side, though, they produce salicylic acid, which is known for its antibacterial and antiseptic qualities and helps prevent illness in fish and shrimp.


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## Flear

i'm stubborn about the root style, i'm stubborn about having it live.

your right, i may have to realize i'm being stubborn and consider alternatives.

i've got preferences , ... as i don't have the tank built yet, it's not a priority, ... but this gives me plenty of time to search , ... if i find something i'm going to post all about it


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## miremonster

The Red mangrove, Rhizophora mangle, is often cultivated in botanical gardens in freshwater basins. I believe that species is depicted in the drawing above.
For tanks mangrove species with smaller leaves would be interesting, but I don't know one at the moment. There are surely also many tropical or subtropical shrub or small tree species that occur naturally on or partly in freshwater resp. wetlands, with roots similar to mangrove.


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## Flear

Miremonster

prop root type plants, ... they all refer to the mangrove for their examples, or sugarcane.
i guess the search would be a little too easy otherwise though 

i can find out why these plants have evolved to produce such root structures easier than finding additional plants that have such root structures.

as kyle mentioned above, while they are a tree, they do grow slowly enough it won't create problems with wanting to grow through your ceiling for many years


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## kyle2088

Yes I wouldnt worry about it growing to the ceiling or the roots breaking your aquarium. Like lots of things in life that are very rewarding given time, effort and patients is often required. To achieve what nature has already achieved through eveolution and replicating it indoors is very difficult and costly - Like really high output lights.

I live in Toronto Canada our winters get about -30 deg Celcius and summers about 30+ degress celcius so I do have to bring the mangroves inside.

And when they are near the window they do not get the direct sun as they would around the equator. So growth will not be fast. However if you want faster growth you can try metal halides.

The roots I have are about 6-8 inches and about as thick as your pinkie. I have re-rooted them often and sometimes cut back the roots to replant them.

I have tried to take mangroves from the ocean and replant them in fresh water before but they all died.

Also I have had some people buy them from me/freshwater raised and put them into salt refugiums and they said they survived.

I think your best bet is to start them yourself in the tanks your want them to grow in they are about $1 a peace 

for the seeds


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## Flear

Kyle, thank you for that 

for what i want to build, definitly sounds great 

i'll still keep my eyes open for a smaller variety, preferably a shurb/brush size, or i'll find another species entirely, 

once i am building the round tank i want i'm definitly adding these , or i'll be boasting about whatever else i find


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## jroget

im about to try mangroves for the first time,,,,wish me luck


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