# [Wet Thumb Forum]-pps fertilization



## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

Many aquatic hobbyists are looking for this method that doesn't require large water changes. The reason may be time or size of tanks. This system also works with periodic and random water changes.

Entering elements proportionally allows one to perpetually preserve an optimum balance of nutrients. A fixed ratio of elements, dosed every day at very small quantity to maintain desired concentration in the water column. Twice a month or so, testing only for NO3 and PO4 determines what to dose the following month. 
-------------------- 
Standard Dosing: 
NO3 - 0.75 
PO4 - 0.25 
K - 1.00 
Mg - 0.10 
-------------------- 
If testing of water column gives elevated NO3 level, then switch to NO3-FREE Dosing: 
NO3 - 0.00 
PO4 - 0.25 
K - 1.00 
Mg - 0.10 
-------------------- 
If testing of water column gives elevated PO4 level, then switch to PO4-FREE Dosing: 
NO3 - 0.75 
PO4 - 0.00 
K - 1.00 
Mg - 0.10 
-------------------- 
-------------------- 
Solutions can be made as follow, K2SO4, KNO3, KH2PO4, MgSO4, CaCl2 and TE (trace elements).

Standard solution 
0.75:0.25:1.00 (NO3O4:K) 
KNO3 - 20.38 g 
KH2PO4 - 5.97 g 
K2SO4 - 15.74 g 
in 500ml

NO3-FREE solution 
0.00:0.25:1.00 (NO3O4:K) 
KNO3 - 0.00 g 
KH2PO4 - 5.97 
K2SO4 - 33.30 g 
in 500ml

PO4-FREE solution 
0.75:0.00:1.00 (NO3O4:K) 
KNO3 - 20.38 g 
KH2PO4 - 0.00 g 
K2SO4 - 19.56 g 
in 500ml

Ca solution (for RO users only) 
0.2 (Ca) 
CaCl2 - 12.22 g (CaCl2 2H2O, Calcium Chloride Dihydrate) 
in 500ml

Mg solution 
0.1 (Mg) 
MgSO4 - 16.90 g 
in 500ml

These solutions make rated ppm at 3 ml / 100 l. Example: solution 0.75:0.25:1.0 at 3 ml in 100 liters make 0.75 ppm NO3, 0.25 ppm PO4 and 1.0 ppm K. 
Dosing the same amount of ml, NO3O4:K:Mg solutions, make the most balanced nutrient spectrum. 
-------------------- 
How to start:

1. Test for NO3 and PO4, make notes.

2. Keep dosing every day Standard and Mg solutions for 1 week. Test for NO3 and PO4 at the end of the week.

- If the ratio and levels are acceptable then continue the same dosing following week. 
- If the levels are high, start dosing less ml the following week. 
- If the ratio is wrong, discontinue the Standard solution and replace it with NO3-FREE or PO4-FREE solution. Keep dosing the following week then test again.

For 50 gallon tank at 1 Wpg Watt per gallon, dosing 3 ml every day keeps nutrients steady. For 130 gallon tank at 3 Wpg Watt per gallon, dosing 12 ml.

3. TE Trace elements is a separate issue. The best way is by observing plants for signs of deficiency, pale new growth. If that happens increase daily dose of the TE solution. Dosing 5 drops a day in 130 gallon tank at 3 Wpg Watt per gallon does the job. Overdosing is not beneficial.

TE Solution 
0.1 (Fe) 
TE - 23.81 g 
in 500 ml

The CSM-B or Plant-Prod® Chelated Micronutrient Mix http://www.plantprod.com/catalogue/04Micronutrients.html can be used.

4. To increase KH use CaCO3.

5.To increase Ca use CaSO4, Mg use MgSO4. Ratio Ca:Mg of 4:1 is done by dosing a mix of dry 1.5 g CaSO4 and 1.0 g of MgSO4.

_________________
-50g - silica quartz - CO2 - RO - UV - 1.2Wg 
-90g - silica quartz - CO2 - RO - UV - 0.9Wg 
130g - silica quartz - CO2 - RO - UV - 2Wg & 4Wg

i must give credit to edward from aquaticplantcentral for coming up with this info. hope nobody cares. i just wanted everyone to have a chance to look at this.


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## AquaLung (Dec 8, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by russell:
> 
> ...


What are the units?


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Standard solution
> 0.75:0.25:1.00 (NO3O4:K)
> ...


what you were looking at was the ratios. here are the amounts in grams. if you want to convert to teaspoons (which i dont suggest due to accuracy issues) you can use chuck's calculator.

you also do this one



> quote:
> 
> Mg solution
> 0.1 (Mg)
> ...


and this one



> quote:
> 
> TE Solution
> 0.1 (Fe)
> ...


in a 100L tank, you dose 3ml of the standard solution, 3ml of the mg solution, and 3-4 drops of traces. add these every day.


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## imported_shalu (Feb 13, 2004)

People using this method typically have low fish load, and they use RO water to have full control of all the nutrient levels.


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

are you against it?


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## imported_shalu (Feb 13, 2004)

No, just not the type of tank I want to keep. Water changes with Python is a lot easier for me than a lot of measurements. And I want to have LOTS of fish in the tank which needs lots of water change.


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

is python the fert. method? do you have a link?


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## Margolis (Sep 22, 2004)

python is a fill and drain hose assembly that you hook up to your kitchen faucet to drain and fill tanks with. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=3910&inm=1&N=2004+113565


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

ahhh. what do you do for your ferts?


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## imported_Edward (Sep 2, 2004)

Hi

You guys copied the wrong article. Please see here, click here
And you do not need RO to run this system, that's a myth.

Thank you
Edward


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

hey edward. good to see you here.


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## imported_Edward (Sep 2, 2004)

Thank you

Do you have any question about PPS? It’s not as difficult as it looks. People who run it can’t be happier. It’s so easy.

Edward


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## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

It depends what people consider a large fishload.

Gnatster is using PPS with a lot of large fish in the tank


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

i am using it with a medium fish load. i had to recently back it off to 2Ml a day insted of the recommended 3Ml for my 30 gal.


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## imported_shalu (Feb 13, 2004)

Well, high fish load to me means the tank in no way can use all the NO3 being produced, even at high light/CO2. Otherwise, I call it low/medium fish load









Without using RO, if the tap water is hard to begin with, topping off without water change sends TDS to astronomical levels in time. I have seen that.


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## NoDeltaH2O (May 13, 2005)

What is TDS? I have a high light high CO2 densely planted tank that gets very infrequent water changes. Nitrates are always under 10ppm and regularly drop below 5ppm so I add Nitrate of Soda to bring it back up to 10ppm (moderate fish load and >1/2 are algae eaters of various kinds and amano shrimp). My tank has been the topic of a VERY heated debate at another forum because I am trying to NOT to water changes (as an experiment). I have noticed my KH level increase from 13.5 to 15 over the course of about a year as my tap water is hard and I am only topping off for evaporation and not siphoning any water out.


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## imported_BSS (Apr 14, 2004)

Here's my understanding. TDS is Total Dissolved Solids. It is the Ca, Mg and similar components of your water (e.g. the KH and GH stuffs). When water evaporates, the H2O goes, but the KH/GH components remain in the tank. So over time, your KH and GH values increase because you never remove any of the built up TDS components in your tank.

Now, as to the PPS approach. First, I've recently started with the EI approach, and have a reasonable understanding of it. So, I'm just trying to understand this approach a bit better.

1) Does one mix up three batches of ferts (one balanced, one no-NO3, one no-PO4) and migrate through them? If so, do the batches eventually "go bad"?
2) In the EI approach, even with my high fish load, I add 1/3-1/2 tsp of KNO3 every water change. That seems like a lot to get into solution and thus it would need significant daily dosage shots. (I'd guess that w/o the water changes, that amount of KNO3 might not be needed).
3) I thought I've read that premixing TE and PO4 can cause certain elements to bind and thus become unavailable to the plants. Is this a concern? Or is the binding at such a low level that is it not an issue?

I'm guessing that the real key to any of these approaches is being consistent and just finding the right balance for your tank. But, I'm in this hobby because I like the learning aspect of it, so please bear with me!

Brian.


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## NoDeltaH2O (May 13, 2005)

So is there any practical way of lowering TDS levels without actually changing the water? I guess using water softener may do this, but I'm not sure if this is a permanent removal process because I remember using water softener pillows in my HOB filter a couple years back and it seemed a temporary fix. I gues adding RO water for topping off instead of tap water would circumvent the accumulation of TDS dilemna altogether, but the thought of using RO or distilled water instead of tap kinda defeats my goal of having a low maintenance tank as I do not have a RO unit and would have to buy distilled water from the store and lug it home. Easier to lug a water bucket from my kitchen to my living room instead.


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by BSS:
> Here's my understanding. TDS is Total Dissolved Solids. It is the Ca, Mg and similar components of your water (e.g. the KH and GH stuffs).


A more complete list is Ca++ Mg++ Na+ K+ SO4-- HCO3- Cl- NO3- and H4SiO4. That list covers the vast majority of dissolved solids in most natural waters. Aquarium water will probably carry a substantial additional load of dissolved organic compounds and at least part of those will contribute to TDS.



> When water evaporates, the H2O goes, but the KH/GH components remain in the tank. So over time, your KH and GH values increase because you never remove any of the built up TDS components in your tank


Your mileage will vary. KH can actually drop over time due to acids produced in the tank, particularly by nitrification. Without fertilizers GH can also drop over time due to plant uptake and snail growth. Without fertilizer, K and NO3 will also drop over time due to plant uptake. Whether you get a net increase or decline in KH, GH, K and NO3 depends on your tank details. Sodium, sulfate, silica and chloride will probably accumulate over time. There isn't much information on organics in aquariums. My slightly educated guess is that they will tend to increase over time to a stable point, but be subject to short-term variations due to other changes in the aquarium.



> Originally posted by DrDrake:
> So is there any practical way of lowering TDS levels without actually changing the water?


No.



> I guess using water softener may do this, but I'm not sure if this is a permanent removal process because I remember using water softener pillows in my HOB filter a couple years back and it seemed a temporary fix.


Normal water softeners increase TDS rather than decreasing it. They take calcium and magnesium out of the water and replace it with sodium. The sodium they add weighs more than the calcium and magnesium they remove. Water softeners also need to be recharged to continue working. Maintaining water softeners in your filter setup over the long run probably doesn't have as much benefit per effort that you will get from water changes.



> I gues adding RO water for topping off instead of tap water would circumvent the accumulation of TDS dilemna altogether, but the thought of using RO or distilled water instead of tap kinda defeats my goal of having a low maintenance tank as I do not have a RO unit and would have to buy distilled water from the store and lug it home. Easier to lug a water bucket from my kitchen to my living room instead.


Using RO water for makeup won't entirely prevent the buildup of TDS. Almost everything you add to a tank -- including fish food -- contributes to the TDS and will build up over time.

I don't understand the concern over TDS. There is little or no evidence that we need to worry about TDS in our tanks over a rather wide range of values. It makes more sense to be concerned over what makes the TDS than it does to be concerned over the amount of TDS.

I'm also not real clear on why avoiding water changes are such a concern for low maintenance tanks. Back when I was too busy to spend much time on my tanks I did small water changes once ever couple months. Usually. When I did that infrequent maintenance each time I did it it was a big, unpleasant chore. The tanks weren't very attractive. All in all doing light weekly maintenance has been a much more pleasant experience. And the tanks look better. Even now when it comes down to spending weekly time on my tanks it isn't the water changes that consume the time, it's the plant care and cleaning. 15-20% weekly water changes on my low-maintenance 10 and 20 gallon tanks takes just a few minutes per tank. Cleaning and plant care take several times that.

In my experience, avoiding water changes in the name of low maintenance is a false economy.

Roger Miller


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

i think that water changes are very helpful in regulating water balance. with the pps system, they are trying to get away from huge 50% changes, but we still do water changes. i do 50% every 2 weeks.

and bss, i think you should give pps a try. it's easy, and it works well.



> 1) Does one mix up three batches of ferts (one balanced, one no-NO3, one no-PO4)


this is not correct. you can see in an earlier post what to mix up. you mix 3 bottles:

Standard solution 
0.75:0.25:1.00 (NO3O4:K) 
KNO3 - 20.38 g 
KH2PO4 - 5.97 g 
K2SO4 - 15.74 g 
in 500ml

Mg solution 
0.1 (Mg) 
MgSO4 - 16.90 g 
in 500ml

and

TE Solution 
0.1 (Fe) 
TE - 23.81 g 
in 500 ml

the te is using greg's csm+b
these are the 3 bottles you use.

in a 30 gal tank, you add 3 ml of the mg and the ss. you also add 3 drops te. add these 3 every day.

bss, if i were you, i would start with the recommended dosing for the 30 gal, i know it seems a bit low, but this was designed for tanks with very high plant load. in my 30 gallon, i only add 2 ml of mg and ss, and 4 drops te.


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

and like almost every other system, when you start, you need to test your parameters every week or so.


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## imported_Edward (Sep 2, 2004)

Hi
You can find all the information over here, http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=4241

And dosing recommendation to start with here, Typical.high.light.daily.dosing.htm

The TDS conductivity will remain stable as long as there is no over dosing and no leaky substrate. I found higher conductivity conditions to be harder on plants. 
The fertilizing solutions do not go bad and they can be stored in any dark place.

Why change water if it's not broken.

Thank you
Edward


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

> Why change water if it's not broken.


not even a little??









not all of us are up to your level!!

no matter what i do, my tank keeps evolving and using different amounts of nutrients. i would have to mix new solutions constantly. i need the wc for error reasons.


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## imported_Edward (Sep 2, 2004)

Hi russell
Why don't you fill the supplied xls file and send it to [email protected] . I will look at the data and help you with the dosing. Anyone interested can do the same. 
One of the intentions of this system was to create standard solutions so hobbyists can share experience with each other by using one common language instead of everyone mixing different fertilizers. This approach already helped in developing dosing strategies for a variety of environments like Onyx, Eco, Flourite, Quartz and others.

Thank you
Edward


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

still collecting data ATM. i know that the regular system doesn't work for my tank. dosing 3ml ss and mg is a overkill. i currently dose 2ml of ss and 1ml mg every day along with 5 drops te. it seems to be working well for now.


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## imported_Zhima (Oct 9, 2003)

I have just started to use pps from the generic pmdd method. Russell and some other people's dosage isn't matching the recommanded dosage as according to Edward's chart, so I'm very confused. Arn't you supposed to add more than 6 drp of TE for 30 gallon? If I were to keep a 75 and 180 gal, how much TE should I add? I have been thinking about adding 5mL (18dr) for 75gal, but I'm hesitating because PPS is more concentrate in TE than Conlin & Sear's pmdd recipe: 
-------------
1 1 tablespoon chelated trace mix 
1 tablespoon MgSO4+7H2O 
2 tablespoons K2SO4 
1 tablespoon KNO3 (varies, depends on your nitrate)
----------------500mL
2drp per 10 gal

Is it safe to add, say 5mL for 75 gal? Copper-wise...


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

zhima, i toyed around with pps for 5 months, and i never figured it out. i started with the recommended dosages and went from there. i got algae no matter what range i was in. so, if there is anything i can tell you, it is this: no matter what fert method you use, you will still have to do frequent water changes. and when you do pps with frequent water changes, it's basically like doing the estimative index method, which i am currently using.


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## imported_shalu (Feb 13, 2004)

Russell, I am sure PPS works just fine for Edward and a few others without any water changes. But like you found out, it is not that easy to follow for everybody. At least you tried, I did not.


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## imported_Zhima (Oct 9, 2003)

Thanks Russel, I guess the copper level isn't too high for the fish then, right?


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