# [Wet Thumb Forum]-sodium levels harming plants



## Lois (Jul 28, 2003)

Hi.

Please excuse this l-o-n-g post but I've been searching for info & ways to combat how sodium affects planted aquaria but haven't had much success. Here's my situation:

I have a 55 gal heavily planted Discus tank. I have well water with 3 GH, & 0 KH and unmeasurable pH (color changes w/1st drop). We had a _whole house water purifier installed whic uses large bags of salt which we buy at the hardware store_ to prevent plumbing problems with the acidic water. With this system, GH seems to fluxuate between 1-6 (depending on system regeneration







); KH seems to stay at 4; pH levels off at 7.6. Replacement water during water changes usually needs to be supplemented with Ca and Mgso4 to bring GH to acceptable levels. I use Kent's Liquid Calcium for this and Epsom salts though I'm not sure how much of each to use since I don't know the concentration of the Liquid Calcium. Therefore I just guess.

Now for the plant problems...


All plants are struggling with root developement
Most plants have holes in lower leaves
Hygro has yellowing and premature drop off of lower leaves
Rotala Macandra has curled & stunted new leaf growth
Hetheranthera has crinkled, scorched looking leaves (white horizontal stripes on leaves)
Red plants (Rotala Macandra, Alternanthera Roseafola) are olive green to pale red.
Red Tiger Lotus has scorched patches which eventually melt away leaving leaves looking tattered

Aside from this I've struggled with BBA & BGA until adding Flourish Excel on a regular basis. Water changes are done with a gravel vac in top 1/2" of substrate on a weekly basis.

Iv'e added more and less Ca to see if plants responded but haven't seen any difference(sometimes GH would be at 8). After reading a few posts about sodium affecting plants uptake with Ca, Mgso4 & K (adding K worsens plant problems and seems to encourage cyano b.) I can only assume my problems are related to the salinity of my water, but I don't know any way to test.

To date I daily dose: 

6ml Flourish TE so FE=.1
6ml Kent N so No3=5-10
1 ml Kno3 (just to add some K)
5 ml Excel
DIY Co2
Po4=0

Once again, I know this is a long post and have alot of details listed but I've been trying to deal with this problem for so long on my own and really need the help of someone with more knowledge and understanding in this area than I.

Thanks for your patience,
Lois


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

there are others on this forum much more knowledgable than i am, but i will try to give you some initial help. 

first off i have a couple of questions for you:

what is your lighting, and also, how much co2 do you add to your tank with the diy method?

second, you need some po4 for healthy plant growth, is there any way you could get some? 

also, do you have a place that you can get the water before it goes through the softener? if so, you should let it sit in a glass over night then test it's ph, gh, kh, and other properties. your well water might be better than you think after it sits for a while.


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## Lois (Jul 28, 2003)

Hi Russell,


> do you have a place that you can get the water before it goes through the softener? if so, you should let it sit in a glass over night then test it's ph, gh, kh, and other properties. your well water might be better than you think after it sits for a while.


I do have a place where I can get my water from before it goes through the purifier but since the water comes out so cold I would have to find a place to store, heat and supplement it before adding it to the tank which seems unlikely. I'll have to try testing after water has been sitting over night to see if theres a differene.


> you need some po4 for healthy plant growth, is there any way you could get some?


I do have some kh2po4 in granular form, but was afraid to add it because I had previous problems with BBA & BGA. What do you suggest the concentration of this be (tsp per 300ml water) in order to add it to a 55 gal tank?


> what is your lighting, and also, how much co2 do you add to your tank with the diy method?


I had 4-40watt flourescent bulbs lighting the tank for 12 hrs, but switched to 3 to see if plant deficiencies would improve. They haven't. Iv'e never tested to see what my co2 levels are, but I never get much pearling, even after changing my yeast mixture which loweres my pH from 7.6 to 6.8.

Thanks,
Lois


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## Lois (Jul 28, 2003)

> What do you suggest the concentration of this be (tsp per 300ml water) in order to add it to a 55 gal tank?


Oops, I just looked on Chuck Gadds Calculator to see if it measured po4 or K in Kh2po4 and found I should add about 1/2 tsp. to 300ml water.


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

i would definately try to keep your po4 at 1ppm. without it, your plants will be malnurished, and they will not grow as well. when plants aren't growing, algae can get a foothold.


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## Lois (Jul 28, 2003)

After reading the few posts about salinity, I'm sure this is the problem w/my tank. (...Sigh, It has to be







.) I've done everything I can think of including adding unfiltered water from my garden hose & mixing it with 1/3 filtered hot tap water but still see the same problems though maybe not as severe. (I live on a water front home where tides affect my water pressure. I guess salinity is leaching into my well also. Please, if anyone can give some advice on overcoming this, I'd be very grateful.

Lois


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

If salt water is infiltrating your well you have a potentially larger problem than keeping your plants alive. I'd suggest that you have it tested ASAP.

Assuming that your well water is not salty, try taking the water from before the softener. Sure it is cold, but if you let it sit overnight it will get warm enough to use in reasonable quantities, and/or you could warm it with an aquarium heater. Add GH and KH and other minerals via Seachem Equilibrium or a similar product, if there is one.

Another possibility would be to get water from the a public supply. You could store that in large drums and have plenty of water. Or, you could get water from a lake or stream where plants grow and fish live, or . . . .

But get your water tested first.

Good luck.

Bill


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## Lois (Jul 28, 2003)

Adding potassuim seems to worsen plant deficiencies, yet I need to add nitrate. Is there something I could use for nitrate w/o adding K or Na? Iv'e been using Kent Nitro+ but recently realized its ingredients were Sodium Nitrate. I don't know how much sodium this adds to my tank every day but I'm sure it doesn't help. --On the other hand, the early leaf drop and holes would suggest I need to add more K. I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place. 

I'm having my water analized as soon as possible. If Sodium isn't the problem does anyone know what I should be looking at to find out what it could be? What would be acceptable levels of sodium in a planted aquarium?

Thanks,
Lois


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

The consensus seems to be that excess potassium does not cause any problems with aquatic plants, so don't worry about that.

I'd suggest that you get some inexpensive test kits and check your NO3, PO4, pH, GH, and KH levels. Testing your incoming water is OK, but testing what is in your tank is much more useful. Assuming that the levels of nutrients in a tank can be determined from the amount of dosing chemicals added is fallacious when one is dealing with troubled aquarium. 

Bill


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## Lois (Jul 28, 2003)

Hi Billpers.

Sorry, I thought I listed my tank parameters. Tank water is as follows:

GH=6
KH=4
Po4=0 Waiting on a more accurate kit to come
No3=5-10? (Also waiting on better kit)
Fe=.1
pH=7.6

From what I've read Potassium could cause calcium/magnesium deficiency signs if too much is added esp in saltier water. Is this not correct?


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

I'm sorry - I missed your water specs.

It might be that very high levels of potassium in very salty water could cause problems; I don't know. But everything that I've read says that excessive potassium is not an issue in fresh water tanks (or nearly fresh water tanks









Here's a link to a discussion of the Krib about potassium.

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/k.html

Good luck,

Bill


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