# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Some questions about low-tech



## batski (Mar 31, 2005)

I am considering setting upp an 82.4 US gal aquarium as a low-tech.

Would this work at pH 6.5?

Also could i use 0.33mm sand on top of the soil if I use a thinner layer?


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## Capt. RI (Feb 7, 2006)

Batski-
Sure, you could have your 82 gallon tank at a pH of 6.5 if you understand the chemistry of your water now and how to get it down to 6.5 (the addition of CO2 which is considered high-tech) not with chemicals such as phosphate. Sand at .33mm would be classified as medium sand and I would advise you to clean it thoroughly if it is from a beach. Also that layer of sand should be no thicker than .5cm - Good Luck


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Why do you think you need a 6.5 pH?

Low-tech aquariums don't have a target pH. It gets very complicated when you try to change a planted aquarium's natural pH. Plant photosynthesis will typically drive it up to 7 or more during the day.

If your goal is to maintain a target pH, you'll probably need CO2 injection-- and that is not low-tech.


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## batski (Mar 31, 2005)

Thank you for your answers!

pH 6.5 would be the ideal pH for the soft blackwater fish I intend to keep in it.

I was considering lowering the pH with Amtra Trop which also stabilises hardness at a minumum of 3 dKH.

I didin't know that photosynthesis affected pH levels.

The whole idea of low-tech is rather new to me, but I find it quite appealing. I do feel that I need to learn more though


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## Matthew Hacon (Apr 8, 2005)

What is the pH of your water from the pipe? If you have the time you should do a bottle test, to see what happens to your water chemistry over time. My personal opinion is that it is easier to buy the fish that match your water, than constantly mess around with the water to match your fish. I also understand peoples rights to add whatever fish they like to their tank.

So far for me (about 6 weeks) low tech has been excellent, once you get over the initial hump of waiting for your plants to grow in, and the soil in the water to settle out. I have been very suprised with how quickly the plants grow, and how happy my plants and fish look; even the wife is paying the tank compliments now!

I think photosynthesis has an effect on pH as it is removing carbon (mainly in the form of CO2) from the water which affects the pH buffering capacity of the water.

Patience is the key.


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## batski (Mar 31, 2005)

The pH of the water from the pipe is 8. The water is soft though (KH around 3) so pH sinks over time.

The product that I am considering using to lower the pH also has a buffering effect, which will prevent a pH crash. And it doesn't contain phosphate, so it sounds to me like a good way to lower the pH.

Do you think it might have any negative effects?


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## Capt. RI (Feb 7, 2006)

Well Batski, if you are considering adding this Amtra Trop then you are no longer in a natural tank theme. By doing so (going to high tech) you can add DIY CO2 and bring the pH down to the levels you want. If you really want to stay "El Natural" then the chemicals are a No-No. Remember these aren't rules, just guidelines!


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## imported_OLLIE (Mar 17, 2006)

> Originally posted by Capt. RI:
> Well Batski, if you are considering adding this Amtra Trop then you are no longer in a natural tank theme. By doing so (going to high tech) you can add DIY CO2 and bring the pH down to the levels you want. If you really want to stay "El Natural" then the chemicals are a No-No. Remember these aren't rules, just guidelines!


 This is not strictly true if the amtra trop is based on humic and fluvic acid it is very natural and the plants enjoy it because it mobilises trace elements and nutrient ions these acids lower and stabiise ph against ph rises in the daytime far better than co2 in a lower light tank...i have used them in a product called sera super peat granulate i fill a soda bottle 1/4 with the granuals and fill up with r/o or rain water after a few days the bottle will go brown but will be crystal clear use this to alter the ph of your water u are going to change. i use a little hardening salt with my rain water this raises ph this is the perfect time to add the peat water the sera granuals r also rich in trace elements. It has recently been discoverd that the addition of these two acids in hydro ponics out ways the bennefits of any other additives appart from the obvious water, light, food. it is natural very safe and beneficial for the above reasons and if used in con****ion with the yeast co2 method smoothes out ph rises while the co2 performance fluctates. just remember to stop co2 after lights out..yeast co2 production humic/fluvic acid ph down sounds very natural to me.


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## batski (Mar 31, 2005)

Thank you for your answers!

OLLIE: It sounds good


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Batski - could you put a link to some manufacturer info about what you're trying to use to lower the pH? I've never heard of it in the US.

If I were you, I wouldn't jump to the product immediately. I would first set up a trial tank or bottle for a month or two and observe what happens. You may find that with plants and soil in the tank the tank stabilizes at nice average numbers. Tannins and humic substances are released from soil naturally. If you can avoid buying a product - and more importantly - avoid building your tank's livelihood on it, so much the better.

What kind of fish are you trying to keep? I usually don't put too much weight in recommended pH values for fish. Unless you are keeping very delicate species, most fish are fine in a much broader range than books often say - that is IF the tank is healthy. A healthy tank is more important than perfect pH in my experience. Also, many classic low-pH fish like tetras are now being raised in 7.0-7.5 pH in farms overseas. Vice versa for hardwater fish like livebearers, etc. So I think some of these pH guidelines are relics from an earlier time.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!


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## batski (Mar 31, 2005)

Amtra is a German manufacturer. Here is a link to their english site: http://www.amtra.de/english/indexgb.html

The fishes I'm planning on housing in that aquarium are gouramis, loaches, rasboras, siamese algae eaters and maybe barbs.


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

I would definetly do a bottle test to see what happens w/ your water over time. The tap water out of the faucet here is pH 8. After a couple of months in the aquarium, the pH is now around 6.8 and steady.

Also, if your pH sinks over time, then why lower it w/ the amtra trop? How low does your pH get? Maybe it stabalizes at a particular level? 

-ricardo


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## batski (Mar 31, 2005)

I am sure my pH would sink over time as my tap water is very soft (KH 3). But this would mean that water changes would result in sudden pH rises...

Also considering that my tap water is so soft I am a bit concerned about the risk of a pH crash. Amtra Trop also stabilises pH at 6.5.

Maybe I just have to get used to thinking differently...


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## Shae (Feb 15, 2003)

Batski, my water is also pH 8. I use peat in my filter to lower the pH down to about 7.0. I have loaches and rasporas now in the higher pH. I have kept gouramis in the past. From my understanding, which is little, most of the gouramis will do fine in the higher pH except for chocolate. As littleguy said the stability and quality of the tank seems to be more important than the pH.


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## batski (Mar 31, 2005)

Yes, stability is important. Du you think KH 3 is enough to keep my pH stable?


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## Raven_ (Dec 5, 2005)

> Originally posted by batski:
> The pH of the water from the pipe is 8. The water is soft though (KH around 3) so pH sinks over time.


hi.
i live in the same town as batski and wanted to point out that if the tap water is aired out the ph drops to around 7.4.

according to the waterplant kh is 2.7-3.3


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## Matt S. (Nov 3, 2005)

> Originally posted by batski:
> I am sure my pH would sink over time as my tap water is very soft (KH 3). But this would mean that water changes would result in sudden pH rises...
> 
> Also considering that my tap water is so soft I am a bit concerned about the risk of a pH crash. Amtra Trop also stabilises pH at 6.5.
> ...


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## batski (Mar 31, 2005)

Thanks for the information. It sounds reasuring


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

KH=3 could work if the acid and base-generating reactions are fairly balanced in your tank.

I think that you need to try and work this out yourself. I'd be interested to know how the Amtra pH-constant works. Maybe we can all learn something new.


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## batski (Mar 31, 2005)

Yes, that'd be interesting. Maybe I should send Amtra an email and ask them.

I'll let you know if I get an answer.


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