# [Wet Thumb Forum]-emersed stem plants



## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

i am about to start an emersed tank over the next week. i will be trying the horizontal method, where you lay the stems horizontally above the stustrate and cover them with only 1" of water. i will be using a plastic storage containor that measures roughly 18" x 12"x 8" tall. i have 4x20 watt NO florescent tubes positioned about 18" over the top of the containor. substrate is miracle grow potting soil covered by ?? (i may use florite or regular aquarium gravel). i will be taking notes and will post a step by step, IF this works









it's the empty tank on the right, the one of the left is my newly emersed glosso:










AND YES, THIS TANK WILL BE TOPLESS


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## KRiley (Jun 30, 2005)

Im really curious how this works out. Whats your purpose of this test? To see if you can quickly reproduce the stems? Or just to see if you can do it? I would like to give this a try also.


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

the glosso is being set up to see if i can make a safe, fast growing environment for foreground plants. if it works out, which it's looking good right now, i will change it out for HC and grow that in the smaller tank.

as for the stem plants, robert wrote a great article on emersed stem plants in the aquabotanic monthly magazine, and it really got me thinking about this. i just want to see what will happen. like you said, i just wanna see if i can do it.

i think this is a very easy and inexpensive experiment.

lighting ballasts 2- 2x20 watt NO ballasts: 8 bucks
bulbs: 24 bucks
wood and swrews to complete hood: free from grandfather








buckets: 5 bucks at walmart

glass covers (foreground plants only) 2.50
miracle grow garden soil: 4 bucks maybe? i can't remember.


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## KRiley (Jun 30, 2005)

Hmmm i might have to give that a try. It will take a little while though. I am in the middle of setting up 4 more tanks. YUCK.


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

yuck??? that is awesome.

this setup is really easy to do, but actually growing plants and getting them to convert over is proving more difficult.


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

ok, the soil was too big of a pain, so i decided to just use plain old eco-complete. i had an extra bag laying around so why not.

this pic has a 250mL bottle of flurish so you can tell the size:










water comes out clear with eco


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

now i added some plants:

bacopa colorata
ludwigia rapens
ludwigia glandulosa
stellata narrow leaf
nesaea?

the left half of the tank has 1.5 inches of water. all of the plants on the left side were planted in the substrate normally.

the right side of the tank has less than 1/2 inch of water. all of the plants on that side were left floating horizontally.

this will serve as a cheap experiment to see which way grows the plants better.


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## Jane of Upton (Jul 28, 2005)

Cool experiment Russ!

OK, my bet's on the ones on the left - rooted normally (were they cuttings, or is there any established root material?) and submerged until they grow an inch. 

Here's my wild guess.....er. ....... thinking: the floating ones will survive, but will have to both put down roots into the substrate, grow in the water, AND try to grow up out of the water (takes more rigid strength) pretty much simultaneously. You'll SEE more growth with them at first. BUT, the ones submerged grown and planted will just put out roots, then start growing upwards. By the time they have to get themselves up and out of the water into air, they'll have a good tap into the nutrients of the substrate. While they'll appear slower at the beginnng, once established, they'll have the stability of doing just one transition at a time. 

Anyone else have a hypothesis on the opposite outcome?

Oh, and PS - where did you find the 
"lighting ballasts 2- 2x20 watt NO ballasts: 8 bucks" ?? Would these be 18" or 20" long shoplights? Or are these the under-cabinet lights? Sounds ideal for small experiments like this - neat! Where did you find them? 

what a Fun post!
-Jane


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## Jane of Upton (Jul 28, 2005)

Oh, and what do you mean YUCK, Riley? Are you referring to the tear-down before the setup? For me, setting up a tank is a blast - lots of work, but a blast! I forget to take meal breaks, as well as other functions - I can't tell you how many times I've suddenly "realized" why I've got my legs crossed while in the middle of planting stuff!

-Jane


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

> I forget to take meal breaks, as well as other functions - I can't tell you how many times I've suddenly "realized" why I've got my legs crossed while in the middle of planting stuff!


very true. i enjoy setup the most i think.

as for the ballasts, i got them at a place called home zone in altus. they are 24" tubes. currently all they have at the store are ballasts for 2x40 watt systems. but, if you have a 48" space for a hood, then you are in business. these are selling for 5 bucks each. they come with the wireing for the bulbs, but no plug in cord. all i did was cut an 88 cent extension cord for that. and i built that wooden hood to house them.

are you looking for the 2x20 watt ones or the 2x40 watt ones? if you can use the 2x40 watt ones, just tell me, and i can pick some up for you. 5 bucks each, and shipping would be 7.50 for the priority flat rate box. or i could do snail mail. anyways, i can get them for you at cost if you need them.


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

as for the plants, the ludwigia rapens on the right side is doing the best, but it was the healthiest plant that i put in the tank.

all of these stems are trimmings.

here are the update pics:


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## KRiley (Jun 30, 2005)

No I mean YUCK as in I have to many tanks as it is and im adding more. More tanks more money. But its all fun. As far as the emersed project Russ, it looks pretty good. I cant wait to see what it looks like in a couple of weeks.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

This is an interesting experiment, however I have some thoughts and reservations.

So the point of this experiment is to increase growth from the different plants? I was thinking that although you might get increased growth with an emersed setup, I think the duration time of growing out plants emersed coupled with reconditioning the plant submerged, will take longer than just growing the plant underwater completely. 

Floating of glosso, ludwig repens and other stem plants grow extremely fast just floating along the surface of a tank. And once you plant them back down, you usually won't encounter a reconditioning phase. 

Keep us posted,

John N.


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

john, 

i once thought about growing these plants emersed like you said to see if they will grow faster and all of that, but this tank is purely for my enjoyment. i have never grown plants emersed before, and i was just wanting to see how it all works. 

i got this idea from robert (aquabotanic owner) in an article he wrote. he grows them for fun also. 

but yes, i can tell you already, growing plants emersed is not as efficient as growing them submerged. i've only got 1" of growth in the last week.

the one benifit would be ease of shipping. some say that emersed plants ship better, but that is still debateable.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

You have me convince to try it out. This seems like a simple fun project to carry out. Thanks for sharing you're experiment. If I get around to it, I'll try it too







. I was thinking about just using a bucket without eco, and fertilizing the water column, and tying the plants down with plant weights. Do you think the substrate is necessary?

-John N.


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

i would say yes it is, but that depends on how you do it. however, i don't think eco-complete is necessary, it's just what i had laying around. you could use any aquarium gravel. just as long as the plants have somthing to root into. 

i have been told that emersed plants feed heavily from their roots.


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## Jane of Upton (Jul 28, 2005)

So Russell,

it looks like the batch on the right (left to float) is growing much faster. Are they putting roots out, and if so, have they reached down into the substrate yet?

Any growth on the ones "planted" on the left?

Interesting.
-Jane


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## JERP (Feb 4, 2003)

You might get a few surprises when your plants "emerge". Many aquatic plants only flower and seed at the emersed stem. Let us know how the flowers smell.


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

> You might get a few surprises when your plants "emerge". Many aquatic plants only flower and seed at the emersed stem. Let us know how the flowers smell.


i sure will. i am interested to see what the bacopa flower looks like.

jane: at this point, every single stem of ludwigia rapens, bacopa, and ludwigia glandulosa i planted have grown out of the water. the right side seems to be the best side right now. the roots seem to have grown 2-3 inches along the substrate before going in. the planted side (left) have all grown out of the water 1+ inches in some cases. they have developed roots from what i have seen, though i only uprooted 1 stem of bacopa to check it.

will post pics when christmas has calmed down


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## Jane of Upton (Jul 28, 2005)

Thanks for the update!

So.... the ones on the left (planted) have grown out of the water, but the ones on the right (floated) have put out more growth, and are now firmly rooted themselves into the substrate? Do I have that correct? Have the float-started ones emerged out of the water yet, or are they still floating below the surface? It sounds like the float-started ones have put out more biomass growth than the planted-start ones. 

Interesting. And how is that glosso going in the other bin? I had some transitioning over (emergent to submerged) in a 2-gal fishbowl (with Cherry Shimp attendants) but its gotten leggy. I'm not sure if this was because it was floating a bit, and I didn't plant it back into the substrate when I should have, or if its growing that way, stretching for the light. I wanted to make sure it was in deep enough water (12+ " water in bowl). But the portion planted straight into an aquarium is doing better - growing nice and flat along the surface, and starting to really take off. 

These "experiment" projects are always so interesting!
-Jane


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

ya jane, all of the stems but one species are now growing emersed. most plants are 1" to 1.5" out of the water. i will take pics on thrusday or friday.


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## KRiley (Jun 30, 2005)

Russ, are you misting those plants to keep them moist? Or are you just lettin them go?


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## azn_fishy55 (Jan 6, 2006)

what is emersed growth?sorry but the project your doing is interesting but I don't know what emersed growth is.


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## MOR B. (Oct 9, 2003)

most aquatic plants growing outside the water too, that is what we call emersed growth.


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

also andrew, when you grow them emersed, they look very different. 

there is really no point to it though. it's just for fun.

as for the project, i was gone for 6 or so days, and the bacopa got kinda burnt and dried out looking. i usually mist them every other day, so i guess they wern't ready for the change. but i still think they will make it.


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## Matt S. (Nov 3, 2005)

> Originally posted by russell:
> john,
> 
> but yes, i can tell you already, growing plants emersed is not as efficient as growing them submerged. i've only got 1" of growth in the last week.
> ...


Neat experiment. It's interesting that you are finding the emersed growth slower. I live in Singapore and all the aquatic plant farms here grow the plants emersed - except for the obligate aquatic plants. I understand that the reason is they generally grow faster emersed - faster growth = more plants and money for a given space and time. I wonder if the slower growth you see initially might be down to the transitions mentioned by Jane above. Or perhaps the inverse of the emersed--> submersed transition that John mentions? If you started with clippings from your submerged plants it may take them some time to put on emersed folliage and take off?

Have there been any changes since your last posting?


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

yes, actually there was a big change. i was gone from home for a month, and the emersed tank dried up and died









i think i will give it another go with stem plants that already have roots. and maybe this time i will be home to water them......


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## Matt S. (Nov 3, 2005)

Cool. You have confirmed that these aquatic plants are not drought resistant!

I won't try to reproduce your results on that one but let us know if you try to grow emmersed again so we can live your experiment vicariously.


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

well, i'm sure i will have some extra stems to throw in there sometime this week.


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