# How to make DIY Tropica Plant Nutrition



## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

So I got turned onto this Jake guy's sweet page recently. Great tank, site and calculator: http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm

But I'm not too into an all in one solution. I am into traces at the moment and had been thinking about Neil's comparison of Fe vs Mn in Tropica, Plantex CSM+B, Flourish, and Miller MicroPlex (a trace I liked when I used it). Check it out:


```
Fe    Mn    Ratio
Miller Microplex        4%      4%      1.0
Plantex CSM+B        6.53%    1.87%     3.5
Tropica TPN          0.07%    0.04%     1.75
Seachem Flourish     0.39%    0.01%    39.0
```
Interesting when you take into account the reputation of each, right? So, I picked up some MnSO4 on the Internet the other week -- shipped fast and 5lbs for ~$17.50 from Alpha Chemicals on eCrater. The label says it is 32% Mn, so I believe it is MnSO4.H2O, which is 32.5% Mn. I didn't find EDTA chelated Mn anywhere that didn't require some permit, but also didn't look too hard.

I am assuming anyone looking to DIY this type of mix already has DTPA chelated Fe and is looking to make some enhanced trace mix. So, like Tropica, this mix has two chelators for Fe. It increases the percentage of Mn in ratio to Fe. It reduces all the other stuff in Plantex. I'm calling it Good Sh..., er Stuff. Measurements are to the mg, adjust your scale as necessary, of course. We might be off by 10% or so because of hydrations on some stuff, but whatevs.

500mL opaque container
3063mg Plantex CSM+B
438mg MnSO4.H2O
1500mg FeDTPA 10%
Fill the rest with DI water. Leave some space for some acid or glutaraldehyde if you want. 
Shake it up!

Makes

```
Good Sh.., stuff    Tropica Plant Nutrition
Fe            0.07%    0.07%
Mn            0.04%    0.04%
B            0.007%    0.004%
Cu            0.0005%    0.006%
Mo            0.0003%    0.002%
Zn            0.002%    0.002%
```
Sweet.

<3


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Hi Wet,

Great idea. Sent you a pm. Let me know what you think, please.


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/mn_edta.html
EDTA chelated Mn.

Edit: Never mind. I forgot about the permit


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Hey Wet,

Do you happen to know how many grams of MnSO4*H2O are in a teaspoon? I do not have a scale.
Also, can you convert the recipe in teaspoons, please. Thanks.


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Here is the MnSO4*H2O.
http://alphachemicals.com/manganese_sulfate


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

HI Wet,

Q about the MnSO4*H2O: Is 438mg 
(0.438 gr) the correct amount to be added ? Thanks.


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

9 grams of MnSO4*H2O in a teaspoon according to the e-mail sent to me by Alpha Chemicals.



> There is about 9 grams in a teaspoon.
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin Prince
> AlphaChemicals.com


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

(sorry for the crossposting, fellas.)

barbarossa4122,

I can't find my teaspoon set right now. But later and I'll make a calculator for it, too. I triple checked my math when messing with it but did I miss something? All I'm really doing there is first making CSM+B 1:1 like Microplex, then adding DTPA to make it like Tropica. This works well for me because, as you know, I like less CSM+B than many, but did not know I was dosing it closer to Tropica proportions than I thought. 

Tips: personally I had been dosing more Fe from DTPA than EDTA. I am not sure this and the above is enough for me to tell any difference. You can still use your EDDHA if your want in those old ratios -- plus here is it's heavier than water and out of a syringe gives a neat effect while spot dosing. Looks cool 

Alpha Chemicals / Justin Prince is the same person I ordered from. He ships fast Priority Mail. It was heavier than 5lbs per our shipping scale at work! It is slightly pink, but does not color the water this way. The mix in the first post makes a light yellow that seems to dissipate faster than CSM+B alone (this also happens to me when using different chelators -- seems they interact that fast?).


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Thanks Wet. Yep, I still dose EDDHA but, I am dosing a few different types of Fe(gluconate/Flourish Iron , 10% DTPA , EDTA/CSM ,HEEDTA /TPN and ?/Pfertz ) and I am not sure which one makes my plants grow better and greener/redder.


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

In regards to Fe, I think it's just the regular and available Fe input. The appeal of the crazier chelators is maybe we don't need to dose it that often while still keeping Fe available. (As in it stays in the ferrous/Fe +2 state and is above plant uptake.) Tropica recommends once a week dosing, for example. Or at least they did when it was Tropica Master Grow. (Lots of hobbyists dosed it every other day or daily at the weekly dose under high uptake, or split it to the daily doses, or did any of the other ranges we see with everything else.)


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

wet said:


> In regards to Fe, I think it's just the regular and available Fe input. The appeal of the crazier chelators is maybe we don't need to dose it that often while still keeping Fe available. (As in it stays in the ferrous/Fe +2 state and is above plant uptake.) Tropica recommends once a week dosing, for example. Or at least they did when it was Tropica Master Grow. (Lots of hobbyists dosed it every other day or daily at the weekly dose under high uptake, or split it to the daily doses, or did any of the other ranges we see with everything else.)


Hi,

Well, I dose TPN 3 times/week in my 2 tanks, but I also dose CSM/DTPA solution and Pfertz micros. Am I crazy ? :wacko:


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Hi Wet,

I checked the site http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm and it looks like James does not add any MnSO4*H2O to his DIY TPN. I wonder why. Do you have any idea why? I still like yours better and I'll start doing it as soon as I get the MnSO4*H2O.


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

wet said:


> (sorry for the crossposting, fellas.)
> 
> barbarossa4122,
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, I did use a syringe and it does look cool.


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

barbarossa4122,

When James did his DIY 'Tropica Plant Nutrition Plus' mix he used any generic trace mix as a substitute for Tropica Plant Nutrition's mix of traces, which I do not think is fair to Tropica. So, such a mix with, say, CSM+B would have the same differences we are trying to address here.

(Adding MnSO4 and DTPA Fe to the TPN+ mix at James's site would be a good idea.)

Easter was long and I still have not searched for my teaspoon sets by the way. Tonight probably.


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Hi Wet,

I'll just like to do TPN, not TPN+. I guess, I am more interested in micros and Fe. Don't ask me why but, to me micros are more interesting to full around with.


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

Sorry for the delay: 1 tsp of MnSO4 (I believe it is MnSO4.H2O) is 7.49 grams. Averaged over 10 trials, never more than +/- .07 grams.

So, 1/16tsp of MnSO4.H2O into 500mL is about right for my mix. I'm updating the first post with teaspoon equivalents.

... can't edit the first post. Sorry also to James for typing "Jake" 

To make Good Sh.., er Stuff with _approximate_ teaspoon equivalents:

500 mL opaque container
Add:
3/4 tsp CSM+B
1/16 tsp MnSO4.H2O
3/8 tsp 10% DTPA chelated Fe
Fill it up with DI water.

Shake before dosing (CSM+B). Dose like you would Tropica Plant Nutrition or Master Grow.


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Thanks man.


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

Had forgotten to add MnSO4.H2O and its teaspoon conversions to this thing: http://calc.petalphile.com

In addition to the Alpha Chemicals source above for MnSO4.H2O, boink mentioned a while ago he sourced some EDTA chelated Mn and he might have it around http://laaquaria.com I've not gotten around to ordering some or weighing it yet.

I like this trace quite a bit, fwiw.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi wet,

This sounds like a pretty good micro mix.



> 500 mL opaque container
> Add:
> 3/4 tsp CSM+B
> 1/16 tsp MnSO4.H2O
> ...


Unfortunately I have never dosed Tropica products, what would be the correct dosing level?


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

Hey Seattle_Aquarist!

I think there's at least two ways to answer that question.

Tropica iirc says 1mL of Master Grow/Plant Nutrition per 10L of tank, dosed weekly or split into two doses. Part of Tropica's appeal, not only from many gardener's first hand experience with plant health, was that it diversified chealtors and claimed it kept nutrients such as Fe available in a way smarter than other products.

The way I think is correct is if one sees trace deficiency is to increase the frequency of dosing for a given target. So, moderate or less light/CO2/plant growth ("uptake" moving forward) I'd suggest Tropica's great instructions. The guy with higher uptake should see Fe deficiency faster and is probably dosing every other day, and should with this (3 or 4 times a week). The guy with reef-like light and stems is probably doing the fun high uptake/nutrient balance thing and I think should think about dosing traces daily.

If an aquarist has already played with traces -- particularly the advantages of multiple chelators -- and already has some schedule, I'd suggest they use Good Sh... er, Stuff as a direct replacement and dose it to their current Fe target. Doing so vs most of the products in the US will yield a smaller proportion of most traces save for Mn and B, with the same Fe target, and mess around and see what they think. Folks paranoid about inverts and copper would find Good Sh.., er, Stuff particularly appealing.

This thread was meant to clone the proportions of the best micronutrient mix I've ever used while thinking about the Mn points brought up by nfrank in particular here during the Fe experiments we all had fun with a few months ago: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...68533-lot-discussion-about-fe-what-about.html But personally I use a slightly different concentration and dose more than Tropica does (same proportion of elements to one another). I then do the spreading out of days according to uptake as described above. And if anyone wants it I am happy to post teaspoon conversions of that more concentrated mix (so that 5mL per 20 gallons is ~0.2ppm Fe).


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

I just reread that post and I'm sorry for posting after, um, consuming tasty beverages. I cannot edit the post but hope you can read past the grammar and broken sentences and confusing everything. If not, let's try again.


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## bigstick120 (Mar 8, 2005)

Never drink and post!:drinkers::blah:


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