# New Tank.... What do you think



## ereefer (Jul 14, 2007)

Many of you have seen my "welcome" thread, and I am apologetic, it will be a week till I have pictures(my card reader has bent prongs... thanks to my 3 year old  ) Here is what it is:

20 Long aquarium
Fluval 2 In tank mech filter
Hagan yeast co2 system
2 - 96 watt dual daylight outer orbit "reef" fixture... obviously with replaced bulbs
2 bags of flourite

Plants Include:

Bronze Wendth (crypto wendtii v. tropica)
glossostigma
telanthera (alternantbera reineckii)
Dwarf baby tear (hemianthus callitrichoides)
Cardinal plant (lobelia cardinalis)
Red tiger lotus??
Rotala?
red temple?

These were all reccomended to me, except the light and tank size.
Hopefully I am on the right track
Oh my dosing is
Flourish nitrogen
"" iron
"" Trace
"" potassium
"" comprehensive supp for the planted Aquarium

... LMK


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

Yikes that is a lot of light!! Do you mean 2x 96 watt bulbs? I would only use half of that, and keep your photoperiod short (4-5 hours) for the first couple of weeks. Due to your reef background, you are comfortable with mega-watt lights, but you don't need quite so much for a planted tank. 65 watts of Cf light over a 20L, for instance, would be plenty. It's not that you can't use that much light, it's just that algae can get out of hand really fast! Plus, constant trimming! 

Keep on top of the CO2 and ferts. The flourish line will work fine for now. Do you have a source of phosphates? (Does seachem make this? I don't use it.) Also, look into a product called flourish excel. It is a carbon source that plants can uptake from the water column that has the bonus side-effect of being an algicide. Hurray! If you stick with planted tanks for very long, you will ant to upgrade to pressurized CO2, as the yeast thing becomes a pain after a while. With only a 20, it's not too bad, at least. 

Your list of plants sounds like fun and will keep you busy with trimming in such a short tank! All good choices, except perhaps the lotus, which will get large. 

Good luck and don't be afraid to ask for help.


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

By the way, if you haven't already, here is a good website for you to read. www.rexgrigg.com

And welcome to APC!


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## ereefer (Jul 14, 2007)

Kelley said:


> Yikes that is a lot of light!! Do you mean 2x 96 watt bulbs? I would only use half of that, and keep your photoperiod short (4-5 hours) for the first couple of weeks. Due to your reef background, you are comfortable with mega-watt lights, but you don't need quite so much for a planted tank. 65 watts of Cf light over a 20L, for instance, would be plenty. It's not that you can't use that much light, it's just that algae can get out of hand really fast! Plus, constant trimming!
> 
> Keep on top of the CO2 and ferts. The flourish line will work fine for now. Do you have a source of phosphates? (Does seachem make this? I don't use it.) Also, look into a product called flourish excel. It is a carbon source that plants can uptake from the water column that has the bonus side-effect of being an algicide. Hurray! If you stick with planted tanks for very long, you will ant to upgrade to pressurized CO2, as the yeast thing becomes a pain after a while. With only a 20, it's not too bad, at least.
> 
> ...


It's a 2- 96 watt fixture. I have the first on on @ 10am, second one on at 2pm, first on OFF at 4pm and second one off at around 8:30. The comprehensive has phosphates. When you say the flourish line will work well "for now" can you elaborate. The lotus is in the most spacious area of the tank. Is it not something I can trim down?
Eirik


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

That is still a lot of light. I would be conservative, for now. I would run the front bulb for 3 hours and then the back bulb for three hours. You can always increase things later.

Is the comprehensive a trace supplement? If so, you will probably want to add additional phosphates. I am not familiar with this product, so I cannot help you.

The lotus can indeed be trimmed. If you see a leaf reach for the surface, trim it from the base. It will still likely outgrow your tank, but is a really beautiful plant and you can enjoy for a while. I've never had one, as my tank is only a 29 and it would outgrow my tank, too.

As for ferts, many people like to dose dry chemicals or make stock solutions themselves. It is easy and very cheap to do. Two methods to try that are beginner-friendly are EI and PPS-Pro. You can read about them in the science of fertilization forum here at APC. the big reason people do it this way, is that it saves a lot of money, especially if your tank is big, and lets you know exactly how many ppm of everything you are putting in your tank. But many people can use the seachem line effectively, and on smaller tanks it is not so costly. Dry ferts can be purchased either from rex grigg or from http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/

Hope this helps!


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## ereefer (Jul 14, 2007)

Kelley said:


> That is still a lot of light. I would be conservative, for now. I would run the front bulb for 3 hours and then the back bulb for three hours. You can always increase things later.
> 
> Is the comprehensive a trace supplement? If so, you will probably want to add additional phosphates. I am not familiar with this product, so I cannot help you.
> 
> ...


Tons of help, thanks alot. Just a beginner setup for now so I hope to learn alot.
Thanks alot. Thanks for the input on the lights.


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

You will definitely learn a lot with this set up! (I'm still learning , too.  )


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## ereefer (Jul 14, 2007)

Kelley said:


> You will definitely learn a lot with this set up! (I'm still learning , too.  )


I sure have. BTW I don't use a phosphorus additive because we are on detroit municipal and it is plenty out of the tap.

Day 4 for the new tank and it is pearling like crazy. Things are going well, the telanthra is already out of the water. I am real happy. Can't wait till I see some fish I like in the store.


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

Keep an eye on the phosphates. Even though the tap has it, your plants will deplete the supply. 1 ppm is a good target to shoot for. If you start having green spot algae on your tank, this is usually a sign that your phosphates are now high enough. 

BTW, seachem does make a phosphate supplement (I checked  ). 


I'm glad that you are seeing some growth. Best of luck and keep us posted.


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## jnaz (May 18, 2007)

Kelly, 
I was wondering if the pressurized CO2 systems give off the same smell as the inexpensive yeast ones. I have a 50 gallon tank in a smaller room with 3 nutrafin yeast sytems going and it can let off a stink that fills the entire room. My wife does not enjoy the smell and wants me to get rid of the tank. I would love to keep the tank going but I can only keep it going if it does not smell and I don't want to spend a bunch of money on a pressurized system if it smells as well. Please let me know.


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## ereefer (Jul 14, 2007)

are they not sealed? I know from exp at a lfs that pressurized is alot better for larger tanks.


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

CO2 is a colorless, odorless gas. Pressurized is unobtrusive in every way. And great for plants. 


The 'yeasty' smell of DIY CO2 is ethanol and other biproducts of fermentation. Pressurized does cost a bit to set up, but anything to make your wife happy, right?


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

ereefer said:


> ...2 - 96 watt dual daylight outer orbit "reef" fixture... obviously with replaced bulbs...


What does this mean exactly? Are your lamps dual daylight 6700K/10,000K 96w lamps now? Or 6700K or even 10,000K lamps? I ass-u-me that you don't have any Actinic bulbs running at all, right? One 96w lamp is fine w/o any Actinics is more than enough.

Kelly mentioned trying PPS-Pro for a plant fertilization regimen. IMO, it's probably the best dosing regimen available for many people. It's a lean system. I use it with one of my aquariums with 50% weekly water changes. It does well. This aquarium has high light and pressurized CO2. I have to bump the dosing up a bit, but I'm not having any issues at all with this aquarium. I keep delicate dwarf cichlids in this aquarium and they are breeding regularly.

Jnaz...healthy planted aquariums with pressurized CO2 don't have an unpleasant odor. They smell 'fresh.' Unbalanced or unstable conditions can lead to a 'swamp' smell. There's other reasons as well.


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## ereefer (Jul 14, 2007)

Left C said:


> What does this mean exactly? Are your lamps dual daylight 6700K/10,000K 96w lamps now? Or 6700K or even 10,000K lamps? I ass-u-me that you don't have any Actinic bulbs running at all, right? One 96w lamp is fine w/o any Actinics is more than enough.
> 
> Kelly mentioned trying PPS-Pro for a plant fertilization regimen. IMO, it's probably the best dosing regimen available for many people. It's a lean system. I use it with one of my aquariums with 50% weekly water changes. It does well. This aquarium has high light and pressurized CO2. I have to bump the dosing up a bit, but I'm not having any issues at all with this aquarium. I keep delicate dwarf cichlids in this aquarium and they are breeding regularly.
> 
> Jnaz...healthy planted aquariums with pressurized CO2 don't have an unpleasant odor. They smell 'fresh.' Unbalanced or unstable conditions can lead to a 'swamp' smell. There's other reasons as well.


I have 2 dial daylight 6700/10,000k. No actinic bulbs. I am going to continue with the dosing plan I am on until I either run out/have bad results/Learn enough to make a better judgement or all of the above.
I don't really want to waste my money by not using my bulbs. Until tomorrow I will be doing my lighting manually. But the second bulb is only being kicked on for 3 hours for a midday shot. 
Eirik


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## ereefer (Jul 14, 2007)

here's a "journal" type thread with some pictures
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...42483-newbie-20-long-planted-img-intense.html


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

10wpg and DIY co2 that is a very tough combination to manage. You really don't need the second bulb. As suggested, I would just run the one 96watt it will give you plenty of light. If you do run the second bulb only run it for a few hours midday, but it's really not necessary. And don't (trust me on this) run your bulbs more than 9 hours). With that kind of light you increase the likely of having issues. You might want to consider adding Flourish Excel and Phoshate to your dosing plans.


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## ereefer (Jul 14, 2007)

houseofcards said:


> 10wpg and DIY co2 that is a very tough combination to manage. You really don't need the second bulb. As suggested, I would just run the one 96watt it will give you plenty of light. If you do run the second bulb only run it for a few hours midday, but it's really not necessary. And don't (trust me on this) run your bulbs more than 9 hours). With that kind of light you increase the likely of having issues. You might want to consider adding Flourish Excel and Phoshate to your dosing plans.


I use the whole flourish line except the phos, the water in my area has plenty. Need to start doing more testing though, that's a fact. What's wrong with the hagan c02 system? Not enough co2?


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

ereefer said:


> I use the whole flourish line except the phos, the water in my area has plenty. Need to start doing more testing though, that's a fact. What's wrong with the hagan c02 system? Not enough co2?


Nothing really wrong with the Hagen system, but when your running very high light you need very high "consistent" co2 which is tough to do with a yeast-based co2 system.


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## ereefer (Jul 14, 2007)

houseofcards said:


> Nothing really wrong with the Hagen system, but when your running very high light you need very high "consistent" co2 which is tough to do with a yeast-based co2 system.


well maybe I will go to pressurized and start a new planted 10gal or something 
The C02 is consistent for a couple weeks right?


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## kiwik (Apr 3, 2007)

jnaz said:


> Kelly,
> I was wondering if the pressurized CO2 systems give off the same smell as the inexpensive yeast ones. I have a 50 gallon tank in a smaller room with 3 nutrafin yeast sytems going and it can let off a stink that fills the entire room. My wife does not enjoy the smell and wants me to get rid of the tank. I would love to keep the tank going but I can only keep it going if it does not smell and I don't want to spend a bunch of money on a pressurized system if it smells as well. Please let me know.


are you sure you dont have a leak, or dripped some of the fermented liquid somewhere? ive had 2x 3.78 liter bottles of fermenting yeast in my room and it doesn't smell. im not sure, but a few drips of dried fermented liquid can cause a stench. once, i had a single nutrafin one start stinking. i just opened the windows and my door, submersed the system over the night, changed the baking soda/ yeast, and the smell dint appear for the next batches. maybe try changing the recipe in a room with a bigger flow of fresh air and be sure not to drip the stuff.


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## Riney Key (Aug 24, 2007)

jnaz said:


> Kelly,
> I was wondering if the pressurized CO2 systems give off the same smell as the inexpensive yeast ones. I have a 50 gallon tank in a smaller room with 3 nutrafin yeast sytems going and it can let off a stink that fills the entire room. My wife does not enjoy the smell and wants me to get rid of the tank. I would love to keep the tank going but I can only keep it going if it does not smell and I don't want to spend a bunch of money on a pressurized system if it smells as well. Please let me know.


Are you talking about those gray DIY plastic Nutrafin bottles? I have two on my 35 gallon tank and had many more when I had a 15 aquarium setup. I never had a smell problem. I understand that the fermentation process does smell when you open the bottles to clean them at the end of the month. It smells like fermentation, a bit like a home brew, but I never had a smell come out of them in the aquarium or aquarium room. Is there a possible gas leak from the bottles themselves? This is a new problem for me. Interesting. Let me know more if you can....


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