# Flourish Excell, algae, fishies and observations



## joe23455 (Jan 24, 2005)

Hi 
I would like to post my observations on the use of Excell as a means of controlling algae. Completely my choice!
I read many comments and posts on this topic previously

I have a 20g planted tank with white clouds, bronze corys and two ottos. I change 1/3 of the water every week. The water in the tank is clear but I was starting to get a problem with long green algae on the wood and some plants. I have also started cutting back on the food. 

At 9:30 an I dosed 3x with excell.(this is less than others have suggested or performed)

At 1:00 pm I looked at the tank and the ottos were flapping their little gills as fast as they can and one is on its side. Lets call this disoriented? The bronze corys were comatose and hardly moving their gills and one seemed suspended sideways in a plant. Half the white clouds were tightly clustered in the top corner and others were bobbing near the bottom. Any one familiar with these fish know that this is not typical behaviour.

5 seconds of panic. :shock: 

I whip out the python and remove 3/4 of the water and replace promptly.

Not much change after 1/2 hour. I do a second change of 1/3.

1/2 hour white clouds swimming almost normally. corys gills are moving at least but not swimming unless prodded. ottos not looking good.

after an hour, to see how they would respond, I add some food flakes to the tank and the White clouds ignore these. This has never happened.

I drop in a shrimp pellet among the corys and they do not notice at all. This has never happened.

I turn off the light (reduce any possible stress???) and see what things look like in the morning.

White clouds are normal and eating.
Corys are moving and eating but not as active as normal.
one otto appears normal. The other is looking a bit bloated not very active but alive and I am not sure how he will do.

I would NOT recommend using Excell for purposes other than what is on the label.

I am not sure if excess Excell itself was the cause. Another possibility is that this rapidly disrupted micro-Flora perhaps releasing something toxic. I am not sure of the mode-of-action of Excell in use as an algaecide so it is difficult to tell what happened.

I will post a 48hour update for those interested

Cheers
Joe


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## Rob G (Oct 19, 2004)

joe23455 said:


> At 9:30 an I dosed 3x with excell.(this is less than others have suggested or performed)


How many ml of Excel did you add to the tank? I am not sure what you mean by "I dosed 3x."


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

Rob G said:


> How many ml of Excel did you add to the tank? I am not sure what you mean by "I dosed 3x."


I have the same question. The label has an Initial dosage and subsequent dosage.


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## Jdinh04 (Oct 7, 2004)

I dose 5ml every week, and haven't had any problems.


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## John P. (Nov 24, 2004)

I'm guessing that you added 3x the suggested initial dose?

I have a Cladophora problem that I'm addressing with Excel as we speak. I've had different experiences than you ...

I have been dosing the initial dose (13mL for my 26g) ... 5 days in a row, then one day off, then a 30% H2O change, and now on two more consecutive days of dosing. No deaths, no ill behavior whatsoever. In the tank are: 15 Cardinal Tetras, 3 Harlequin Rasboras, 2 Otos, ~90 Cherry Shrimp (including tiny hatchlings), ~10 Bee Shrimp, and common pond snails. 

I think the fauna could be considered "delicate" enough to respond if there was a problem with the dosing amounts. 

Anyhow, my results are quite good. Anyone who has battled Clado will tell you that there is no way around drastic measures with the stuff. It doesn't respond to CO2 and ferts like other algae. The Clado has stopped growing, and its bond to rock & substrate is much weaker. Some of the tips of the algae's "branches" are white.

Soooooo ... you may want to try to ease into this a little bit. I would no doubt incur deaths if I added 30+mL of the product to my tank, too.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

I just recently used Excel to combat some BBA. It worked flawlessly. No harm to my Ottos or Cherry Red Shrimp and definitely no harm done to the Harlequin Rasboras!

The tank I used it on is a 75g. I first did a 50% water change and dosed macros as usual. I continues with my regular dosing schedule but also dosed 30ml of Excel per day for seven days without a water change or skipping a day. On day 3 or 4 I noticed the BBA turning red. By the next day it was white and by day 7 I could not see any visible BBA anywhere in the tank. I do have a small patch of it coming back on the driftwood so maybe I should have continued for another day or so.


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

I have dosed 20ml in a 20 US gallon aquarium with no ill effects to shrimp, ottos, or M. praecox fingerlings.

Andrew Cribb


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## joe23455 (Jan 24, 2005)

Yes it was three times the standard dosage. Sorry from the shorthand but it was habit form years of running molecular biology labs.

Also I guess I should have tagged my message on to the old thread in this section on same topic. And from reading through the other thread I can see that using Excell "off label" was not without mishap, especially considering some of the ingredients. 

Update: water slightly milky- all fish alive and swimming!  

I guess now the question is what is the long term effects of such over-dosing on the fish? All would be speculation as no one is going to do the "clinical studies".
Cheers
Joe


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## joe23455 (Jan 24, 2005)

Hi,
One otto did not make it.
Cheers
Joe


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

You didn't mention what type of filter / filtration you have on the tank. It seems like the 20 was fairly heavily stocked.

Flourish Excel does, in my experience, at high doses above the recommended dose, have an effect on the biological filtration bacteria / media. It will take several days to recover.

Andrew Cribb


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## Zackie (Feb 11, 2004)

*I second Joe's experience*

I just posted to the older thread where I said that at 2X, my wild discus in a 120 Amazon biotope tank went into a SIGNIFICANT distress condition. Lots of carbon and water changes saved the day but now my nutrients are ALL screwed up and the glass is growing algae like there's no tomorrow. Yes, there was a milky effect as others have experienced.

On a postive note, my 20 gallon with more mundane fish in it turned milky and the BBA croaked in a matter of days. Excel is a mixed blessing that must be used with care. BTW, both tanks use very soft RO water.

Bob


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