# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Vicki's 30G w/ Eco-Complete-Update 09.22.03



## Guest (Jul 31, 2003)

Moved from General Section...
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This tank was set up on July 22nd, which is the day the pictures below were taken.

Jay, per your request--the first picture is the 30 gallon on the day of setup and immediately after planting. I really could not believe how clear the water was, even after I mucked around in the substrate. Once this tank is mature and stable, the fastgrowers will come out and I'll probably make several changes. What does everyone think of the driftwood? Should I face it the other direction with the taller piece toward the right side? I can't make up my mind. Carlos, thanks again for the hottonia palustris and L. brevipes--the ludwigia especially REALLY seems to like this tank. LOL! I left 2/3s of what I had of both plants in a different tank, I didn't want to commit it all to a brand new setup.









This is a closer view of the substrate. The cork background (eventually to be planted with assorted epiphytes) probably helps to warm up the color of the Eco-Complete, but I really like the look of it very much.










http://www.wheelpost.com

[This message was edited by Vicki on Wed August 20 2003 at 07:36 PM.]

[This message was edited by Vicki on Sun August 31 2003 at 08:45 PM.]

[This message was edited by Vicki on Tue September 23 2003 at 08:17 PM.]


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2003)

Moved from General Section...
-----------------------------------------------
This tank was set up on July 22nd, which is the day the pictures below were taken.

Jay, per your request--the first picture is the 30 gallon on the day of setup and immediately after planting. I really could not believe how clear the water was, even after I mucked around in the substrate. Once this tank is mature and stable, the fastgrowers will come out and I'll probably make several changes. What does everyone think of the driftwood? Should I face it the other direction with the taller piece toward the right side? I can't make up my mind. Carlos, thanks again for the hottonia palustris and L. brevipes--the ludwigia especially REALLY seems to like this tank. LOL! I left 2/3s of what I had of both plants in a different tank, I didn't want to commit it all to a brand new setup.









This is a closer view of the substrate. The cork background (eventually to be planted with assorted epiphytes) probably helps to warm up the color of the Eco-Complete, but I really like the look of it very much.










http://www.wheelpost.com

[This message was edited by Vicki on Wed August 20 2003 at 07:36 PM.]

[This message was edited by Vicki on Sun August 31 2003 at 08:45 PM.]

[This message was edited by Vicki on Tue September 23 2003 at 08:17 PM.]


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2003)

Great setup so far. 

I would move the wood as you said. Positioning longer element in right back corner will make the tank longer. 

1. After re-placing the wood, I would plant your Lobelia along the bottom portion of the wood creating slope effect. 

2. Do you plan on introducing any foreground plants (ex. Glosso, Pearlweed etc.) ?

3. R. Macaranda is growing beautifuly. Looks like a rose.

4. Where did you get this cork ?

5. Is your Eco-complete mix with anything ?


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

I have bought some Eco/Complete for a 75gal I will be setting up soon. IT looks great in your tank. I am glad to here that is doesn't cloud up the water. I wounder if the break-in time will be shorter with Eco/Complete? 

Hawk

Trust But Verify «*»®


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Jay, per your questions:

1. Yes, I agree.
2. Yes, but I wanted to let everything settle in first. The tank's been up for less than 10 days; haven't decided what I'm going to use yet. Pearlweed wore me out in the 120, if I can find some marsilea I might use that; I'd like something that I don't have to prune every 15 minutes!
3. It was in this picture, but it's not quite as happy this week; I thought I'd see just how complete Eco-Complete was, and evidently it's not complete enough for macranda! I've started my normal fertilizing regimen in this tank, enough experimentation, I'm sticking with what works. Of course, anytime you touch macranda it will make you pay a price; just moving it from my 120 probably made it unhappy.
4. I got the cork tile at Lowe's; you can get it at Home Depot, too. It's just 12" square cork tiles. Once it's underwater you can't even see the seams, and it's thick enough to attach plants to. I like the dark, chunky-looking smoky stuff better than the bulletin board type cork, but that works too. Cost me $3.79 for a pack of 4, which was more than enough to do the 30 gallon. I really wanted to use cork bark, but it would have taken up to much space in the tank.
5. I sprinkled some fluorite on the top, just for appearances' sake, but the rest is all Eco-Complete. Two bags gave me just enough; if I had it to do over I'd probably use three.


> quote:
> 
> IT looks great in your tank. I am glad to here that is doesn't cloud up the water. I wounder if the break-in time will be shorter with Eco/Complete?


Thanks, Hawk, I really like it so far, I'll be interested to see some pix of your 75 when you get it set up! It's supposed to speed up break-in time because of the heterotrophic bacteria it's packed in, but I don't have a whole lot of faith in that. The bacteria will still need to grow to cover the surfaces, after all.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Em\'sDad (Jul 31, 2003)

Vicki.

I like the look of the cork tiles. Are the floor/wall tiles from Lowes/Hone Depot etc. treated in anyway? I can only imagine that they have some sort of protective sealant on them (but then again, what do I know?







). Did you test for or have you noticed any effect on chemistry etc.?

Anyone else have any experience with these?

Thanks,

Roger


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

No, they're not treated, Roger, they're just plain old 100% cork. They're not floor tiles, they're intended for use on walls as bulletin boards, etc. All I did was soak them in hot water to remove dust and small pieces that floated loose. The most they'll do is release a few tannins, but not nearly as many as the average piece of driftwood; they have no measurable effect on the water chemistry. Believe me, if I'd had any doubts they wouldn't have gone into this tank, this is my apistos' new house! It's the first time I've used them, but I have several plant buddies who have been using them for years and tell me they hold up well over the long haul. There was an article in TFH a few years back about using them as backgrounds and attaching plants to them; the author escapes me right at the moment, but I think it was one of the SFBAAPS guys, perhaps someone here remembers it.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2003)

Vicki,

Can you elaborate a little more on how and which plants you will attach to the cork ?


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Well, some of the things I'd like to try are 1) java moss, attached to plastic mesh forms that I can attach to the cork with staples (so that I can make rock shapes with the moss covering the plastic); 2) java fern--I saw this done, and it gives wonderful depth to the tank; and 3), I'd like to try some petite anubias nana--or even regular A. nana if I can find it, but that's easier said than done--I think if it would stay healthy and grow well enough, the little nana would make a very attractive background in combination with java moss. Bolbitis heudoloti is another possibility. Staple gun staples work really well to attach the plants as long as they're small enough--you can just push the staples right into the cork over the rhizome. I think the deep green of A. coffeefolia would work well, too.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Vicki,

I think some groups of A. nana would look great growing out of a full back coverage of Java Moss.


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Me, too, Phil--if I have time this weekend I want to get the java moss going. I worry most about being able to find true A. nana (i.e., one that I won't discover is a barteri v. barteri in a year or two!); I only have one true nana to work with, I'm going to need to find some more.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Kim (Aug 1, 2003)

Vicki, under what section of Lowes are the cork tiles?


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Good question, Kim, I went NUTS looking for them when I was there--finally gave up and asked somebody and they had moved them all to an endcap in the front of the store. They used to be with the wall coverings, where the wallpaper and stuff is, so you might look there first. But if your Lowe's is as big as ours, you might just want to start at Customer Service and ask, it will save a lot of aggravation!

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Em\'sDad (Jul 31, 2003)

Vicki - a few more questions....

Do you remember what make the tiles are? 

If they are the ones I think they are (maybe 1/4 inch thick with some nice texture) - do you have any trouble keeping them clean?

I'm looking forward to giving this a try!

Roger


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Actually, the kind I got (the dark, chunky, smoky-looking cork) is thicker than that, Roger, which makes it nice for attaching plants--I'd say it's about 7/16", roughly speaking. Sorry, I don't remember the brand--it was in Portuguese! But they come wrapped in plastic in sets of four.

Ummm....clean? Do you mean, free of algae? Not so far, there's not a trace, but I wouldn't mind if it got a nice patina of green algae on it--hopefully it will eventually be pretty well covered with java moss and other plants anyway.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Em\'sDad (Jul 31, 2003)

Not so much concerned about algae (I kind of like a little green patina too!). More concerned about debris getting trapped in the cork crevices and rotting. I guess the gravel vac will probably suck it out.


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Well, I haven't seen any sign that's likely to happen, but then I have quite a bit of water circulation and mechanical filtration on this tank, I don't think debris would get a chance to settle in there. At any rate, I think if you directed water along the back when you refilled the tank, that would easily wash away anything that might have gotten stuck.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Kevin Jones (Apr 4, 2004)

can't say I've ever tried a cork backing, I'd really like to know how the epiphytes settle in there, I have a few tanks with slate backing and the success has been decent


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## António Vitor1 (Feb 2, 2003)

well I visited an area with lots of cork trees (sobreiros) here in portugal, I might catch some of those cork laying around in the next visit...

I actually see some fires on that area... but interesting enough, the cork tree is able to survive... the cork is the protective skin of the tree, it can sustain a fire.

I really like those cork backgroud Vicky...(and the rest of the setup







)

hum... one Idea is now coming up on my head...
what if I put some of the cork out of the tank, I take out the black paper, and put some rough sheets of cork, it will not gain dust/algaes, and it will produce a good isolation material, it's a extremely good in preserving the heat and cold.

preserving some energy in the cold winter...

I might do something like that...

Regards!
António Vitor

[This message was edited by António Vitor on Mon August 04 2003 at 04:55 PM.]


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Thanks, Antonio--of course, it will look a lot different when it grows up, it's still too shiny and new. LOL! I thought about you when I saw the package, it occurred to me you ought to be able to gather all the cork you wanted! I've used it as a background on the outside of tanks before, and it does look nice--non-reflective, and the fish seem to like that. I never thought about the insulating qualities (I was in Phoenix then, it wasn't one of my problems!), but that would be a good thing, too.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Speaking from experience....cork _will_ get algae on it. Fortunately it's most likely to be Cladophora, which looks really nice on a natural looking background.


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## MicNanDec (Feb 1, 2003)

The tank looks great Vicki! And I'm so jealous of your apistos! How did you attach the cork to the glass? Silicone? I might try something like that when I set up a cichlid tank. It's a real nice effect. When I put the Eco-complete in my hex. tank I found a few bits of shell. Did you find any in your bags? Just thought it was a little strange.


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Thank you, Mic! Yes, I just used aquarium sealant, it worked fine. I can't say I found anything in my Eco-Complete except Eco-Complete, I don't remember seeing any stray shells or anything like that.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## fishfriendly (Mar 2, 2003)

Vicki,

Your tank is beautiful. I love the cork idea. A couple of questions:
-- How do you hold the cork against the glass when it is inside the tank? Is just burying the bottom edge of the cork in the gravel enough to hold it in place or do you put something on the back of the cork where it is against the glass?
--Similar question, how would I hold the cork against the glass if I were to use it on the outside of the tank. I am beginning to hate the background that I have now, which is just one of those photo type of pictures you buy off a roll.
--(I hope this doesn't sound too stupid but...you said that in order to attach plants to the cork you would use a stapler. Do you take the cork out of the tank to do it or (don't laugh) do you submerge the stapler in the tank to do it. (I am a raw beginner in the plant area and have a lot to learn).

Thanks.


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Thank you, FF! I've heard it said that you can just rest the cork on the bottom of the tank behind the gravel, but I'm dubious that that would work very well. I used aquarium sealant to attach it to the glass, which works very well. Of course, you have to do that with the tank empty, so unless you can drain the tank and leave it for a couple of days to let the sealant cure, that would be a project--although if you buried it and just used sealant to attach it at the top, that might work.

Putting it on the back would be trickier, you couldn't use any kind of adhesive that would show through the glass. Years ago,when I did it myself, I used a spray-on adhesive on the face of the cork, and it worked fine, you couldn't see it at all once the cork was attached.

As for the staples--you can use the big staples that are made to go in staple guns, and just push them into the cork, you don't need a stapler. You just put the ends of the staple on either side of the rhizome if it's java fern or anubias, and push. You could attach java moss the same way.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Totenkampf (Aug 5, 2003)

This is a good idea, I don't know why the though escaped me since I have used cork slabs in paludariums for some time. I used to buy cork slabs from a company called black jungle to create a background and then attached bromeliads to it as it jutted out of the water inside of the tank. It is thick and really wants to float though, so I may try yoor idea next. As I recall, I never had much of an algae problem with it despite the rough exterior for algae to grab on to. I think their must be something to the waterproof skin of the cork that is also found in cypress knees because I don't get algae on that either.


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Update: at the moment, I have a healthy growth of thread algae on parts of the cork bark-which actually looks quite attractive (I don't think it's cladaphora, Phil, just plain old hairy stuff). Happily, it's not growing on any of the plants, just the cork, so I haven't complained. I have held off adding the java moss, though-didn't want to wind up with java moss hopelessly intertwined with algae. However, the way the algae looks convinces me that the java moss will look really nice! I'll try and get a decent picture of the tank and post it.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Since a number of people were interested in the cork background, I thought you might like to see how the tank is evolving four weeks later. The giant hygro is gone, replaced by a nesaea species I stumbled across at my lfs last weekend, first time I've ever seen one in my neighborhood; it appears to be N. pedicellata, and it's growing like a weed; at this rate I'll top and replant it in another week and get rid of all the emersed growth. Hairgrass is a new addition, spreading nicely already; the macranda is history, it was stupid of me to put it in a brand new tank. I'm glad I had sense enough not to move ALL of it. And the watersprite jungle is still keeping the tank pretty much algae free except for what's on the cork.










This is a closer look at the Nesaea. N. pedicellata?










I forgot to take a closeup of the cork, but you can see the hairy algae growth. It's beginning to fade; when it's gone I'll start attaching java moss.










http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Em\'sDad (Jul 31, 2003)

It looks great Vicki. I like the patina that the algae gives to the cork. If only we could figure out how to make it stay in only one place!


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## Dr.T. (Jul 23, 2003)

The attached algae makes it look quqite natural!

Jeff (Dr.T.)
---------------------------
Tank info in profile
29 gallon tank
65 gallon tank


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## Rob A (Jun 26, 2003)

Thank is a great looking tank Vicki. Nice job. Any idea how long the cork will hold up under water? Will it break down at all?

Rob A
30 gal hex, fancy goldfish
30 gal african cichlid, 4 saulosi
20gal long community


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Thanks for the kind words, guys. The tank will be undergoing a lot more changes over the next several weeks--that's what makes new tanks so much fun, finding what works and what doesn't! I'm getting impatient to take out the watersprite but I know it's too soon; don't want to disturb the apistos too much, either.

Rob, re the cork--it's the first time I've used it underwater, but I know other people have had it in use for as long as five years so far, so I'll just have to see what happens!

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Kim (Aug 1, 2003)

Vicki does the cork bark get darker when it is submerged? I found 12x12 cork bark at Walmart and I think they are the same as yours. They are made in Portugal and packaged in Brazil. I wonder what they use to glue the bark together? And is it toxic to fish?


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

I don't think any glue is used in the tiles I bought, I think the bark is just pressed; you can break it apart easily if you're so inclined. It certainly hasn't bothered my fish any, they seem to be doing fine! The tiles I used are considerably darker and with a rougher texture than plain bulletin board cork tiles; you can use those to attach plants to also, but they look lighter than what I have. They ARE darker submerged than they are in the package though.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Well, the hairy algae is history, not a trace of it left, so I decided today (08/31/03) was a good day to start attaching java moss.










Sorry the cork is a tad out of focus, but I wanted you to see the algae really is gone! (Besides, it let me show off my male A. hongsloi yet again.)

Below is the java moss, right after I attached it; you can see the plain staples I used to hold it on. Worked great, and in a few days they shouldn't be visible at all, I hope.










Here's a shot of the whole tank, which is coming along. The watersprite (which is growing a foot above the waterline, I hacked it back today) is still doing its job--a few more weeks and I'll replant the right side of the tank. I apologize for a) the reflection, I don't know why I shot this during the day, and b) the painful contrast in the picture, because like an idiot I forgot to turn off one of my lights. Both of them on makes it way too bright for a really good picture. Sigh...maybe next time I'll remember.










http://www.wheelpost.com


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## imported_Svennovitch (Feb 1, 2003)

Very nice, Vicki !
I love your Nesaea. Is it an easy plant? How does it compare to Ammannia gracilis?


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Sven, I'm NUTS about the nesaea. I've never had ammania gracilis; this is the first opportunity I've ever had with a nesaea species. I've had no trouble with it so far--it's growing beautifully as it switches from emersed to submerged growth, and putting out lots of sideshoots at the base of the stems, which is nice. It's grown very well but not insanely fast, just a nice steady growth, getting nice and busy, nice short internodes and lovely color--much prettier than the macranda was in this tank, I think, the subtler color fits in much better. Once I have enough of it I'll try some in another tank and see if it does as well under less light.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## tsunami06 (Feb 6, 2003)

Lovely Nesaea pedicellata, Vicki! Looks much
better than mine.









Carlos

-------------------------
"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced." -- Van Gogh


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Thank you, Carlos, that's a nice compliment coming from you! I really like the way the L. brevipes you sent me looks in this tank, too.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2003)

Tank is great Vicki.

Your Nesaea sp. is looking very healthy. Wonder how would it hold in my tank compare to _Ammania Gracilis_ which leaves are getting wrinkled again. Plus _Ammania Gracilis_ is way too tall for my 55G with its very broad leaves.

L. brevipes, which I got from Carlos as well (thanx), is giving excellent contrast there on the back of the tank. I'm waiting for L. arcuata to come to provide some interesting look to my tank.

Water sprite...Hmm...I'm not sure why but I dislike this plant.

Good job


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

LOL! Don't worry, Jay, the watersprite is not a permanent addition, it's my champion algae buster--although the emersed growth is actually very pretty. It lets me plant one side of the tank with the plants I want and get them well established with no algae problems. Once the tank is stable, I'll take out the whole mess and plant the right side.

P.S. Forgot to say--so far the nesaea is not showing signs of wanting to grow real tall, it's putting out lots of sideshoots and getting bushy. I hope it stays that way, considering how shallow this tank is.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## keef (Feb 10, 2004)

Vicki,

Your tank is very nice looking. I have a 30 gallon with the same lighting that I am getting ready to redo. I also want to try a cork background, and the Eco Complete. Is that hairgrass in the foreground. I wasn't sure what foreground plant I was going to use. What CO 2 system do you have on it? 

Keith


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Thank you, Keith. Yes, it's hairgrass, and it's gotten very thick in a short time, a lot thicker than it was in the last picture. I also have hemianthus micranthemoides on the left side of the tank which is creeping along the substrate, so I kind of hedged my bets, I haven't decided whether to stick with one or the other or both; I do like the micranthemoides as a border between the hairgrass and the nesea. With that much light, you can use whatever suits you, it just depends on how much time you want to spend maintaining it.

I'm using the JBJ all-in-one regulator on this tank, which has a built-in solenoid, and a PlantGuild reactor. I've been very happy with it so far.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Tank has been set up for two months on 09/22/03, and now looks like this:










Most of the watersprite is gone--just a few sprigs left in back right. I rescued the limnophila indica from another tank, and it's reviving--hopefully it will soon fill the back right corner and I can remove the waterpsrite altogether. Nesaea has been replanted again and continues to do well, I just love this plant! More java moss added on the cork back, as well as some petite anubias nana.

Closer look at the left side of the tank:










I'm still vacillating between the H. micranthemoides and the hairgrass, I like them both. If I can keep the pearlweed under control, I might keep both of them.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

That's awesome Vicki! That petite nana is going to be snazzy when it grows in. Good choice for placement. My only gripe is it's kind of hard to see the Ludwigia in the front. It's so fine leaved and the bunch is still small it almost gets lost.

Best,
Phil


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## Guest (Sep 24, 2003)

Vicki,

Do you plan to cover foreground in front of lobelia/wood ?

Your Nesea is looking just beautiful there. 

I wouldn't touch pearl grass. It looks great and covers bottom part of Nesea. 

How about you start filling this empty gap between lobelia and two java ferns. Right above the lobelia if you look at the pciture. Maybe take those longer stems of L. brevipes and plant them there ???

You have Private Topic !!!


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## imported_Svennovitch (Feb 1, 2003)

Vicki,

this turns out to be a stunning tank. Great fish and very nicely planted!
I envy your Nesseae









Sven


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Thanks, guys! No question, I am REALLY glad I happened to go by my lfs the day after they got in those two bunches of the nesaea. I have never seen it there before, and haven't seen it since. I sent them a picture of mine so they could see what it looks like when it's grown submerged (because the emersed growth is not real exciting, it looks like bacopa with elongated leaves), so they would be more inclined to get more in the future.

You know, Jay, I really thought the hairgrass would spread over in front of the driftwood, but it hasn't-I guess I'll have to transplant some if I want it to grow there. I'm definitely going to do something there, just haven't decided what yet. I like the idea of running the brevipes up the wood, I might try that tonight.

http://www.wheelpost.com


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