# 75g Re-Scape *fingers crossed*



## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

*SETUP:*

*Dimensions: * 48"L x 18"W x 20"H
*Volume: * estimated about 227L
*Lighting: * 4x65 watt PC @ 10 hours 
*Filter: * Eheim 2217
*CO2: * pressurized @ 3-4 bps
*Substrate:* Aqua Soil - Amazonia, PS special, Tourmaline BC
*pH: * 5.8-6.0
*Temperature: * 84ºF
*Plants: * Blyxa japonica, Hemianthus callitrichoides, Anubias barteri var. nana, Anubias barteri var. nana 'Petite', Microsorum pteropus 'Narrow leaf', Taxiphyllum sp. 'Peacock', Fissidens sp., Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Green Gecko', Various "starter" stems... will be removed and replaced later

Just wanted to start a thread with my newly re-done 75g, Due to growth issues I was having in the old set up, and a burning inner desire to actually set up an aquascape rather than a "farm". I did a tear down and started from the bottom up! I would have really liked to have gotten my issues figured out, and plant growth where I wanted it before doing this.... however I was just sick of looking at my hazy mess.... and really felt the old substrate was a big part of the problem.... so two days worth of hard work later and it was done.

I went with ADA on the ground, the whole work up along with bright sand. I know this is sort of a "generic" idea in a way, on the other hand every tank is unique in its own right, I took a basic idea that I liked, and fit it to my tank, with the plants I wanted to use. All the plants listed above are staying..... there are some stem's in both corners.... they are all going to go, just things i had on hand and was able to get locally that I used to get it started. I have a lot of plants on the way and by next week it should be filled with everything that I intended to have for the long run.

I am pretty pleased with how things turned out. I really like the over all layout. The idea was to pretty much set up a lower maitence, long term scape. There are going to be some stem plants, but not so much that it gets out of hand and a chore to maintain.

This is my first time using ADA substrates, I am really hoping to see better, more lush growth than I have in the past. Another big change I am making is swiching to name brand trace's. I have used CSM+B for a long time now and I have never really gotten the deep lush colors I see some achive. I decided to swich over to Tropica Plant Nutrition... It is expensive but those who use it speak highly of it. I bit the bullet and bought a 5 liter jug to save in the long run.

On the old set up I tried both extremes, from light dosing to heavy EI type.... both pretty much produced similar outcome.... always weak colors, often stunting of stem plants, and a lot of die off on older leaves. I am really hoping to avoid all of that this time around  As of right now I really havn't been adding anything... been doing a lot of water changes, about twice a week @ 50% (still getting a lot of tannins from the wood) After the WC i have been adding 1 tsp of Seachem EQ, and about 2 ppm P from KH2PO4 (noticed after testing the tank water, the PS seemed to be leaching N, but there really wasnt any P at all)

Like I mentioned I have never used AS, or PS before in any of my set up's... for those of you who have, how do you go about adding ferts? guess im just looking for a place to start off with. It seems that a lot if not most seem to pretty much just let it go the first 2-3 weeks, maybe just adding some K and/or traces.... but then there after what have you all had success with? If i had the money I would go the full line of ADA ferts also.... but that just isn't an option so it will be basic dry powders, along with the TPN for traces.

Let me know what you all think, and any advice on how to keep everything healthy!  oh and sorry for the bad quality pics!

~Matt


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## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

a few of each side...


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## Phaturkey (Jan 15, 2007)

I like it  Cant wait to see grow in all the way.

What fish are you planning to put in it?


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## Troy McClure (Aug 3, 2005)

This is going to be sweet once you get the real plants in there and let it grow!

What are the pumps in the upper right of this picture?
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/attachment.php?attachmentid=4117&d=1168994798


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

I like the look you're trying to achieve, but I would add a lot more fast growing, temporary stems in there. Your tank is not very heavily planted, and you have fairly high lighting there.


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

I like the look you use with the separated middle ground there. Very nice.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Great start. I love the overall valley type layout. I've always wanted to create something like that, but obviously I have no real skill in aquascaping. The way you did it works pretty well, but I've always seen similar aquascapes with dark type rocks paired with the white sand since I believe it helps define the V-bed better. With that, the rocks would also be a mixture of smaller and larger rocks, spaced apart to form the lines with the intent to make things more natural looking. Not to say that the way you're doing it is wrong, just different from what I've seen. 

Once the HC fills in that foreground and the moss rebounces to cover the driftwood, I think it's gonna look pretty neat.

-John N.


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## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

Thanks for all the comments!

Troy McClure - 
The pumps are just a pair of extra power heads for added circulation, In the old set-up they were placed there because I had a dead spot in that back corner... Will have to wait and see, they may need moved around again. They are pretty small, like an inch and a half square i think.... Can get them at bigalsonline.com - Aquarium Systems Micro-Jet 320 Pump at Big Al's Online

Bert H - 
I there are actually more plants in there than it looks like, however they are all just small at the moment and hidden. For the most part I agree though... this week all the plants that are staying are coming in. When they do arrive the stem plant mass will easily be 3-4x what it is now.... also the Ambulia that is on the right hand side of the tank is pottet, and I think i will just be moving it to the sand area for the "break in" phase so I should be in better shape with plant mass by the end of the week.

John N. - 
I pretty much couldnt agree more.... I like the rock, however there are things I would also enjoyed more. Bottom line is, its COLD out here, LoL i didnt want to go out rock hunting in this weather... When it comes down to it though I like the rocks, I have used them in other tanks before and they get much darker once the are "seasoned", there are a lot of grooves and crevices.... much detail that is lost in my bad pictures  In person it really looks much different, and more pleasing than in the pictures.

I also can't wait for the moss to come back, its all peacock on the wood, and in the pics it looks totally dead.... because it pretty much is. There was some hair algae in it, so i soaked it in a H202 and water solution to kill off the algae before putting it back in the tank. Well I used to much H202 and pretty much killed the moss! Lucky for my there are new growth tips everywhere on it and its coming back stong.... so i dont have to re tie all of that! whew!


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

nice layout indeed!!


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

looks like a great start.
Keep us posted!


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## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

Well all of the plants I was expecting came in yesterday. Tonina sp. 'Belem', Mayaca fluviatilis, Heteranthera zosterifolia, Pogostemon stellatus.... also got some more A. nana to fill the left side as I wanted too.

There are a lot of different sp.'s and im not really sure that I like that so much. For now they will all stay because i need them to keep the tank filled, but I would also like to see how it looks as they grow in. I think I will most likely end up only using a few of the stem plants though, and having similar grouping on each side of the tank.

I also starting dosing lightly.... it appeares that even though there wasn't a whole lot of plant mass in there, the tank sucked through the 2ppm of phosphate I had added in just a few days. Right now im adding 5mls of TPN, 1.1ppm N, 1.3 ppm K, and .4 ppm P daily.... going to just stick with that for a while and see how things go from there.

I'll post some pics early next week once things start to fill in a bit.


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## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

This has to possibly be the most frustrating hobby in the world... But then again any hobby where problems pop up and can not be fixed over the span of a year is bound to drive the hobbiest off.....

ALL of my stem plants are just slowly melting away..... a few days ago I bumped all the macros up.... 3.3ppm N, .8ppm P, and around 4ppm K daily. Really getting the feeling That I pretty much shouldn't have waisted my time and money redoing this tank.... or doing any tank for that matter... seems like whateve I dose, or dont dose.... they all look lik hell....

Keeping my fingers crossed for now...


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## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

Anyone have any advice on how to treat this tank? I have heard all of these good increadble things about AS... how it grows plants like gang busters, and how many dont even need to dose when the first set up thier tanks, yadda yadda yadda....


Well I have to be honest my impression of it isn't all to high... With all of these things I have heard I figured even with a semi decent water colum fert routine, that in at the start it would support good strong growth out of the gate...... I have set up a Nano tank, and now this current tank.... and in both plants just melt away to mush right from the get go..... The Nano has been set up for many weeks..... seems like it doesnt matter what I add as far as ferts go, nothing grows. 

I have an uneasy feeling about this new set up, im seeing the exact same trend starting.... 

Anyone have any ideas? I'm not new to this.... but I have been stumed for close to a year as to why i can no longer grow plants, I thought a good substrate, would give me a good foundation to start over with..... apreantly I maybe should have just found a whole other hobby


Arrrhhhhh


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

I really wish I could offer some words to help you!

You sound very frustrated with things as they are. I would say leave it alone and wait, but it sounds like you've been battling for a year so that's not good enough really is it!!!

The only thing i might say is maybe lay off the ferts for a while. If the plants have just gone in they might not be using too much anyway? And if they're melting a lot of their nutrients will be going back into the water and being processed by the filter.
Have you checked pH and other parameters? If your tank water is vastly different from that the plants were in before they might be suffering a bit of shock from the change.
If you're using some substrates they will lower the pH fairly dramatically.

I'd check the water tests, change half the water and syphon out as much dead material as possible and lay off the ferts for a while.
Others may totally disagree with this of course!!!!


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

Do you use tap water or RO water? If you use tap water, a re you reconstituting it with anything?


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## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

Thanks guys..... Ed, thats basically what I was doing from the start.... the first week I didnt dose anything except a bit of Seachem Eq. for K, I figured the other elements it provided wouldnt hurt. I did this thinking as many have said that the AS would be more than rich enough to support plant growth. Well things just melted right from the start.... the first batch of Blyxa I planted totally melted to nothing in 2 days. I replanted some more and it didnt really do anything so I figured it was safe to pack the tank with plants.

Thats what I did, tons of stem plants.... the same thing happened nearly 90 of what I put in melted away within a few days.... what stems did manage to hang on havn't grown at all in the past week.

Some anubias and crypts have put out a new leaf or two.... On all of them they are yellow and sickly looking. Not white, or light green, but a very yellow color, some of which being slightly deformed.

CO2 was being dumped in hardcore, but In the past two days I have cut back, just using enough to keep the drop checked green, rather than yellow..... I dont really see the point of dumping loads of CO2 if the plants arnt growing. Tropica plant nutrition has been dosed at 5ml a day 7x a week. 

Kelley: I use tap water in all of my tanks, I can not store, nor want to use RO water. I dont reconstitute with anything.... thats seems sort of un-needed.... I havn't taken anything out so what would I need to reconstitute? I have a GH of around 5 degrees, a KH of 2 or so from the Tap. Water quality report claims 5.1 ppm Mg, along with 27.1 ppm Ca... TDS 190

I dont really test my tank water, It has proved to really be of no help in fixing problems in the past. Only thing testing has ever done for me is give me a number to talk of.... Once the tank was set up again I did test once or twice... Basically my tank water is usually some where around a TDS of 260-290, depending on how heavy Im using the ferts, PH around 5.9, KH and GH are just about the same as the tap water.


Again let me add I set up a 1g Nano tank with AS.... Its been running for probably a good month and a half. Weither I dose or not.... I have seen no growth out of this tank either.... Plants either melt away, or they simply sit there and do not grow.... Anyone have ideas? 

Other possible points of Intrest from water quality report since lately even in non CO2 tanks my plants have stopped growing, became stunted, and other wise have failed to thrive.... (thought I have actually grow some decent plants in the past)

Chloride - 82ppm
Sodium - 50ppm


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

MrSanders, I am not suggesting you use RO water, I just wondered if you were. 

Good luck with your tank. It's so frustrating!


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

What about tests for ammonia, nitrite or nitrate???

You say pH is 5.9. I would think this is significantly lower than where you got your plants from. I'm not suggesting this is the whole story, but it may be a factor. You seem to have great tap water (If I had tap water like that, I wouldn't use RO. Seems great, well for a soft water tank anyway!!!) and think with ADA substrate pH/hardness may plummet. Could this be the problem? Plants, like fish will suffer if there's a big change in parameters, as I'm sure you know.

From what you say about problems with growth in all your tanks, I think there might be something else going on here! Or maybe ADA with low KH is the problem?

Maybe get a detailed tap water analysis from your water company? You never know what they might say?


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## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

I have a detailed tap water analysis from my water company, it is a good year old though... its three pages long, with most everything not being of concern. I really dont know what most of it is... just off random elements that I have never heard of, though most everything is listed in ug/l which would be in such minute amounts im sure I wouldnt have to worry about. Though the Chloride, and sodium seem sort of high to me? I dont know..... 

As far as the Aquasoil and PH/hardness I dont really know.... When this tank was running before PH was down to 5.3 every night before the CO2 shut off..... then again I have always had growth problems so that doesnt mean anything.... 

I don't really know what to do.... guess i'll just wait and hope things change... I don't know if thats being patient, or stupid.... things never changed in the past.... oh well.


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## nswhite (Aug 25, 2006)

Cool it should really look good once everything grows in.


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## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

Thanks, if things turn around and the plants grow in healthy... i know I will enjoy it very much.


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