# Discus, Help if anyone can



## UserJB007 (Sep 18, 2008)

I have 4 Discus. I originally bought 2 at the same time, they have been getting along great. In the last month one has begun beating up the other, to the point that it hides in the plants and can barely sneak out. Now I've added the other 2 and figured the agression would be diffused a little better. Now however I have 3 discus that all hide, and one that runs the tank.

What can I do?


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

I'm considering discus but I've been reading that unless you get a group of 6 or more it's important you either get a proven pair that gets along or group of three that have been together with no issues, otherwise you do end up with a dominant one and the issues you're having. Maybe remove the aggressive one? But then maybe one of the remaining ones will take over.....perhaps post at http://forum.simplydiscus.com/?


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

They're cichlids that shoal outside the breeding season so you need to either get more to spread the aggression out (6+) or if a pair have bonded then remove all the others as the pair will persecute them if there isn't sufficient room.


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## crystalview (Mar 9, 2008)

You can also try moving some of the plants around so the tank is new to everyone. You can also cover it up so it is dark at the same time. 
I had four and a pair formed when I traded off the other two the pair did fine.


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## ddavila06 (Jan 31, 2009)

probably be easier and better for them to get rid of the dominant one befor you start loosing some...are they all around the same size?


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## brighty K (Oct 1, 2008)

Just personal experience, but discus don't seem to do well unless they're in a pair or in a large (and I mean large) group, as others have said. Taking out the dominate pair or male won't help as another will just take its place as the alpha and continue to pick on the wusses.

That's just the nature of the beast. You will always have a couple that don't do as well in a large group because they are the ones getting picked on. The runtiest of the runts will slowly waste away and die over time. And then another runt will become the runtiest. Some of the runts last longer than others, but they know they're the runts. They stop eating and hide all the time.

That's just the way that fish is. Get a big group and plan to lose some over the years. Enjoy the beauty of the big guys and take the losses of the runts as "survival of the fittest." It's not your fault.


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## UserJB007 (Sep 18, 2008)

Hmmm ok sorry I haven't responded to the advice you guys have given. I appreciate it!

I did remove the one discus that was SEEMINGLY the problem causer. Shortly after another did take the dominant role. I did however add one more discus to the tank. They are all almost the same size at about 4". It does seem that the addition of another fish has diffused some of the aggression enough where I see the other discus moving about.

At this point I feel like I've READ everything I can find, and just need some experience under my belt. 

I am looking however for someone who has experience BREEDING discus. While this tank is going to be my planted show tank, I will be keeping a seperate tank, that I will be attempting to breed a pair. I have a few specific questions, for someone with some experience under their belt.

Thanks again, everyone on the forums have been a HUGE help. I'll upload some pics of the kids


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## erock (May 19, 2008)

I'm not a breeder, but I am an experienced discus keeper who keeps them in a planted tank. Here's a couple of things to try.

1. Feed more. May sound silly but I have a dominant in my tank as well and he tends to bully less on a full stomach. This also makes sure that others get a chance for some food.

2. Don't re-arrange. Bully discus will be bully discus no matter what the tank set up is. In a planted tank, you'll chance releasing toxins in the water which will kill your fish if you disturb your substrate too much.

3. Keep at least 6, and try to keep an even male to female ratio. A good breeder can tell, and I find that this helps to quell aggression.

4. Bully your bully. When my bully is being bad, I put my face right up to the glass and give him a stare and he stops. The others see this and swim toward me. This probably sounds silly, but it works and it brings the weaker fish out of hiding.

Good luck and realize your problem is not unique to you, it's just a part of keeping these quirky, expensive fish.


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## UserJB007 (Sep 18, 2008)

haha Erock THANKS for that advice... ODDLY enough I've done everything you said prior to reading that.

I have moved to feeding twice a day, and I can actually see all of the kids. Plus, I feel like it's probably good for them being young to have plenty avaiable. Any input on diet? I have them on a Dainichi pellet, bloodworms, and a flake.

Instead of my face to scare the bully I just kept flashing my hand. And oddly enough just like you said, the one that was getting picked on the most, waited for me to get near the tank to come out!

I haven't rearranged a thing, mainly because I like my setup and the root systems are too dense for me to bother!

I also currently have 5 in the 55G, with 5 rummy nose, 5 raspora, and 2 chinese algae eatters. I've been reading that 5G per adult discus is acceptable, but I feel like thats not accurate considering adult size. How well if at all will 6 discus fit in the 55G? If it's not overcrowding I'd pick up another before they get any older.

Thanks again


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## erock (May 19, 2008)

I don't think adding one more to a 55 would hurt, but it also probably isn't going to be a cure either. Now that I have a better understanding of you tank and inhabitants, let me make a few more points you can consider.

1. I'd get rid of the chinese algae eaters ASAP. I assume these are gyrinocheilos aymonieri, and these can be bad news with discus because the tend to eat fish slime as they grow older. Replace them with Otocinclus for algae control, or better yet, SAE's (or both).

2. What temp do you keep? Most rasbora's need cooler water than discus. Discus should be kept at least 80 degrees, and if you can do 82-84 you'll have healthier fish. Rummy's are kinda the same as rasbora's when it comes to temps, but I have found they tolerate warmer temps ok. You don't need dither fish with discus, but they can help. It may seem cliche, but the cardinal tetra is, IMO, the best tankmate for discus because the have the same water requirements. 

3. Feed enough that it takes about 5 minutes to eat. Discus are slow eaters and like to pick at their food. I primarily feed frozen foods, bloodworms, beeheart and spirulina. I turn off my filter during feeding and I spread the food throughout the tank so that there is food everywhere and the fish don't have to fight for food in one space. I really think you can solve the aggression problem by focusing on your feeding. Get a good omniverous pleco like a bristlenose or a gold nugget and they'll take care of any leftovers so you don't have to worry about leftovers messing with your water quality.

4. I like to use the 10g per discus rule. Not to be confused with the horrible "inch per gallon" rule that a lot of people use, I just mean that I would only put 1 discus per every 10 gallon of water. I'd stick with your 5, make sure you are providing the right water quality and temperature, feed slow twice a day and I bet your bully calms down a bit.

Also, I'm probably preaching to the choir but I want to close by saying to keep up with your water changes. As planted tank owners we don't have to subscribe to the 50% a day rule that scare so many people away from discus, but I'd suggest you at least do 20-25% a week and clean your filter once a week.


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## jlo (Mar 26, 2009)

I breed discus for little while, I still have 28 of them, first you can fit about 15 young discus in your tank (if you do not plant too heavy) and you also you can keep you water temp around 80. You may want to keep about 10 of them togeter and move one or two things in your tank right before you put them in. be honest to you the 10 GAL per fish rule it don't real work for discus because if you don't have enough fish together they will either hide all the time or they will fight all the time. how many fish should you keep in your tank? It is real up to how big and how many plant is in you tank. I think if you can post some pictures in here that would be very helpful.


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## armedbiggiet (May 6, 2006)

jlo said:


> I breed discus for little while, I still have 28 of them, first you can fit about 15 young discus in your tank (if you do not plant too heavy) and you also you can keep you water temp around 80. You may want to keep about 10 of them togeter and move one or two things in your tank right before you put them in. be honest to you the 10 GAL per fish rule it don't real work for discus because if you don't have enough fish together they will either hide all the time or they will fight all the time. how many fish should you keep in your tank? It is real up to how big and how many plant is in you tank. I think if you can post some pictures in here that would be very helpful.


Jimmy,

Breeding tank is different than planted discus tank, I do not agree with this... 80 is a bit too low for discus and at this temp the discus easily to get sick. I keep my discus & plants in 28-29C which it is 82-84F since 2004. It is the max for most of the plants and discus feel more comfortable in it. 5 to 6 are good enough for my 55g and the always outside waiting for food below 5-6 than it is up for your fish if they want to hide or not. Introduce new discus always a good way to break up the silences. My plants are covered every where.


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## UserJB007 (Sep 18, 2008)

Ok thanks again for some input, I waited a while to post again so I could see how things have played out.

I can see all of my discus now. While there is still clearly a dominant fish, the agression seems to have simmered a bit. I feed twice a day, and plenty

The water temp is at about 82, and the tank I would call heavily planted, I do about 15-20% water change twice a week. Seems the bio load (if thats the right terminology) shot up with the discus addition, makes sense. 

I have kept otto's... and sometimes they live for a month and die, sometimes a week. The Chinese Algae eaters that I've kept, I've had for about a year now and keep to themselves. They dont pick on the other fish, and have had no health problems. I was told SAE's are as fragile as otto's which is why I stayed away from them. And I stayed away from Pleco's because I was worried about a big boddied fish moving thru and destroying plants.

Keep the input coming it's all appreciated!



*** To the discus breeder, what did you find the best way to soften, then condition your water is/was?


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## UserJB007 (Sep 18, 2008)

Ok thanks again for some input, I waited a while to post again so I could see how things have played out.

I can see all of my discus now. While there is still clearly a dominant fish, the agression seems to have simmered a bit. I feed twice a day, and plenty

The water temp is at about 82, and the tank I would call heavily planted, I do about 15-20% water change twice a week. Seems the bio load (if thats the right terminology) shot up with the discus addition, makes sense. 

I have kept otto's... and sometimes they live for a month and die, sometimes a week. The Chinese Algae eaters that I've kept, I've had for about a year now and keep to themselves. They dont pick on the other fish, and have had no health problems. I was told SAE's are as fragile as otto's which is why I stayed away from them. And I stayed away from Pleco's because I was worried about a big boddied fish moving thru and destroying plants.

Keep the input coming it's all appreciated!



*** To the discus breeder, what did you find the best way to soften, then condition your water is/was?


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## erock (May 19, 2008)

Glad to hear your fish are settling in. Sometimes they just need time to get used to each other :wink:

IMO, you still need to get rid of the chinese algae eaters, they'll likely be trouble one day. I'd classify Otos and SAE's on the easy scale, especially compared to Discus, so if you've had trouble with them perhaps it's the dealer you are buying from rather than the fish.

I also think you need some sort of bottom of the tank clean up crew. Perhaps shrimp, cory's, etc... I keep ghost shrimp in my tank along with the rest of my clean up team and they do well with discus, assuming that they are big enough and the discus don't eat them. These shrimp breed like crazy in my tank and when they hatch it creates a live food source for the fish.


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## freshfins (Oct 23, 2005)

Watch out for Otos, too. I had them in a tank with Discus and I didn't notice any problem for a while. I had heard that someone else had seen Otos feeding off of Discus, but I saw no evidence. Then one day I came home to find that my CO2 tank had dumped and all the Discus were gasping... and the Otos were chewing the fins off the Discus! Dorsal and anal fins were almost gone. Luckily, I got home in time to save the fish and the fins eventually grew back. But now I believe that Otos will take any opportunity when the Discus' defenses are down - which may include when they're trying to sleep.

Now I have a Bristlenose in the tank, but perhaps not for long. Any omnivorous catfish may take advantage of an easy protein source.


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## Pam916 (May 22, 2008)

I have 6 discus in a lightly planted tank and I also have 2 clown loaches. The clown loaches will eventually get too big for my 55 gallon but they grow slowly and do very well with discus, they are also very attractive additions. I do a 50% water change weekly and my discus do fine. If they are young discus they need to be fed very well 3 or 4 times a day and that may increase the number of times you need to do water changes as discus require clean water. I also keep a male betta in the tank and bettas do well in a discus tank. I have also kept Congo tetras with my discus.


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## kotoeloncat (Mar 17, 2006)

usually for discus is 1 or 6 or none at all, despite its looks discus is actually quite aggressive.

I have heard horror stories about ottos mooching off discus slime coat, but I think this more an exception than the rule. And I think you are not alone in terms of ottos being fragile fish. 

Alot of times they arrived at the LFS already starved to almost death. Take the time to pick and choose the ottos if your LFS lets you, if their stomach are sunken, pass them on. They wont make it long term. Same applies to SAE, they generally are much hardier than otos but if you see them in not a good condition pass them on.

Chinese algae eaters are trouble , take em out ASAP before it gets big and becomes a real trouble. They dont eat algae despite their common name and they seem to have a liking for discus slime coat.


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