# Walstad - Importance of water circulation



## Yeronimo (Oct 4, 2020)

Hello,

I have a 10 gallon walstad tank since january this year. At the moment it runs with a small power head for a low water circulation. It is, apart from a few thread algae, very stable und looks great.

Now I think about taking the power head out of the tank. The flow was always at a low level and from time to time, if I hadn't cleaned the pump, without any. My tank is also very crowded with hardscape and plants, so the water movement doesn't reach every spot anyway.

What do you think? Is it necessary to have water movement in a walstad setup? With less tech I would love it even more.

Thanks!
Yeronimo


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## Hank Junior (Oct 1, 2020)

That is one great looking tank - looks as good as a hi-tech. Will be using your setup as my aim when I do mine. I don't presently have a walstad tank but I do similar to you - have a small 5W pump (the highly recommended Eheim surface skimmer 350- best pump/filter I have ever owned - can not live without it now - I have bought several) that I only switch on occassionally to clean the water. It helps blow the plant detritus off the leaves but I could imagine a set up with no water movement. My 26L/6G tank is presently 90% no water movement. Thanks for sharing - impressive result.


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## Hank Junior (Oct 1, 2020)

Yeronimo - could you be so kind to tell us what the carpet plant is? It seems to like the conditions. I would like to get some. Thks.


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## Yeronimo (Oct 4, 2020)

Hank Junior said:


> That is one great looking tank - looks as good as a hi-tech. Will be using your setup as my aim when I do mine. I don't presently have a walstad tank but I do similar to you - have a small 5W pump (the highly recommended Eheim surface skimmer 350- best pump/filter I have ever owned - can not live without it now - I have bought several) that I only switch on occassionally to clean the water. It helps blow the plant detritus off the leaves but I could imagine a set up with no water movement. My 26L/6G tank is presently 90% no water movement. Thanks for sharing - impressive result.


Thank you very much, Hank. I'm glad to hear such positive feedback! Yes, I'm a big fan of the walstad principle, even more since this tank is running! 
Great to hear, that you have not much water movement. I guess I will test my tank with less to no movement in the future. Thanks!



Hank Junior said:


> Yeronimo - could you be so kind to tell us what the carpet plant is? It seems to like the conditions. I would like to get some. Thks.


The carpet plants are nothing special, just Micranthemum tweediei ("Montecarlo-3") . I love them and will use them in future setups too.

Yeronimo


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## Hank Junior (Oct 1, 2020)

Thanks, will keep a note on that one for a new setup - appears to survive a low CO2 environment. One website says that Montecarlo needs high light/high CO2 (like Lilaeopsis). Your tank proves otherwise. Its maybe a question of growth rate. If you are patient you get a carpet.

Sorry last question please: what are the dimensions of your tank? Looks like 45cm long? Its what I am wanting to acheive: shallow with some plants growing out of the water. Its has attractive proportions. I am not into "the golden rule" etc of aquascaping, but some proportions work well aesthetically. I try to avoid narrow or high tanks. Thks in advance.

Can't almost believe its low tech - looks amazing. One tank I am planning, similar proportions to yours, is a riverbank setup with marsh plants on left hand side and deeper water on right hand side. Hoping it will be low tech.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Beautiful tank!

To answer your question, circulation is helpful but not always necessary. Try it without the power head for a while. You can always put it back in if you notice problems.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Outstanding! The aerial growth is just as beautiful as the submerged growth.

In this tank, the submerged plants don't have to compete with the big ones for CO2, because the big ones are getting their CO2 from the air. If they were fully submerged, I doubt you would get such nice carpet growth.

It sounds like  your Monte Carlo is a new and less demanding carpet plant?

Overall, I would give you an A+ for this tank.


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## Yeronimo (Oct 4, 2020)

dwalstad said:


> Outstanding! The aerial growth is just as beautiful as the submerged growth.
> 
> In this tank, the submerged plants don't have to compete with the big ones for CO2, because the big ones are getting their CO2 from the air. If they were fully submerged, I doubt you would get such nice carpet growth.
> 
> ...


Wow, it is a pleasure for me and I'm sooo happy to read this from you! Thank you very much!
I love your book and your method of setting up a tank. It is somehow so simple but so effective. I am biologist myself, so I'm lucky to understand most things you have written in your book and your approach is just amazing. I am very glad to meet you here.

The Monte Carlo you linked is exactly the plant I bought. I think you are right that this variant could be a less demanding one. It seems to grow very well and not slow. I have to cut the leaves every 2-4 weeks, because the carpet is getting too thick.

There is only one reason why this tank is so beautiful: I made everything exactly according to your instructions. Thank you very much again for sharing your knowledge!

Best
Gerd

P.S.: I have one short question to you: My nitrate level seems to be very low and thread algae love that. How can I increase the nitrate level? Do I just need to feed more?


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## Yeronimo (Oct 4, 2020)

Hank Junior said:


> Thanks, will keep a note on that one for a new setup - appears to survive a low CO2 environment. One website says that Montecarlo needs high light/high CO2 (like Lilaeopsis). Your tank proves otherwise. Its maybe a question of growth rate. If you are patient you get a carpet.
> 
> Sorry last question please: what are the dimensions of your tank? Looks like 45cm long? Its what I am wanting to acheive: shallow with some plants growing out of the water. Its has attractive proportions. I am not into "the golden rule" etc of aquascaping, but some proportions work well aesthetically. I try to avoid narrow or high tanks. Thks in advance.
> 
> Can't almost believe its low tech - looks amazing. One tank I am planning, similar proportions to yours, is a riverbank setup with marsh plants on left hand side and deeper water on right hand side. Hoping it will be low tech.


Thank you again, Hank! Like I wrote before: The Monte Carlo I used seems to grow very well and not as slow as you would think. The start was slow but after that it grew very well.

My tank is 60 (long) x 28 (deep) x 20 (high) cm. I guess the tank shouldn't be higher than 1/3 of the lenght. Then you have what you called "aesthetically proportions" .
The only issue with an open tank with this proportions: Fish like to jump out of it. The first months it was really a problem for me. I found a solution by using small glass strips at the edges of the tank.

If you have more questions, just ask!



Michael said:


> Beautiful tank!
> 
> To answer your question, circulation is helpful but not always necessary. Try it without the power head for a while. You can always put it back in if you notice problems.


Thank you! I will try it!


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## Yeronimo (Oct 4, 2020)

For those who are interested in the progress of the tank. Here are some pictures I took from time to time to see how everything was growing.

This is from 08th of february, when I started my project.









This is a photo about one month later.









This is again one month later.









And this one about half a year after the last photo. I also cutted a few plants before this picture.









It is really fascinating how good and fast everything grew up!


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## Hank Junior (Oct 1, 2020)

Yeronimo, you did well to put the montecarlo in at the start. I bought some hair-grass recently and am having to grow it semi-emersed for 4 weeks until it puts down some roots, when I will place it in my tank. Couldn't get it to stay in the substrate - kept floating to the surface every time I submerged it. My plants are in pots right now, a bare tank, which makes it easy to move plants around. My present tank is an experimental tank, not for display.

I bought some Tweediei MonteCarlo-3 yesterday at my local and will start some experiments with different conditions (fully emersed/semi-emersed/CO2, no CO2 injection/dirt or hydroponics/ etc...). I have some lilaeopsis right now which is growing extraordinarily well semi-emersed + hydroponic solution - its the darkest shade of green I have ever seen, just like grass in the garden. The lilaeopsis in my tank submerged (+CO2 injection) is a much paler shade of green - what I always see in pictures. Never seen lilaeopsis a deep dark green before.

After 3 weeks of a test tank I am about to start experimenting with different soil types (typical black dirt garden soil type/red-dirt high-clay etc...). Presently I am almost 100% hydroponic, except for root tabs.

Later of course I will trial a walstad type. 

Thanks for the dimensions - yes about a third high to long sounds like my aim.


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## Hank Junior (Oct 1, 2020)

Just a quick story about the semi-emersed lilaeopsis.

I have outside my house what I would consider the "perfect" aquatic biotope (I am an amateur, not a biologist so forgive any errors in description). It is a large clay bowl, probably 50L, which is filled with river water, I live near a river. It is always clear water - looks good enough to drink, and the wild animals drink out of it. It is full of a green algae which grows in clumps and sometimes floats to the surface, but mostly forms a carpet lining the inside wall of the pot. If I remove some, it is very thick with a black sometimes red underside. This pot gets full sunlight from about 8am till 4pm, or 6pm in summer.

I was watching it recently and noticed that the top of the water was sparkling. A sure sign of photosynthesis. I have noticed in the past that if I put an aquarium plant in full sunlight the top of the water will sometimes 'sparkle' - its the miniature O2 bubbles bursting on the water surface. So it was clear to me that the algae is photosynthesising very well, therefore it must be getting the nutrients it needs. I thought that the dead algae (the carpet underlay) must be feeding the algae on top - a kind of plant canibalism.

Anyway I put one pot of lilaeopsis and another pot of Ambulia, plus some java moss, in this pot and within 5 days they were covered in algae and dying - the ambulia didn't survive. The java moss is still there but not looking very good - I left it there. This pot of lilaeopsis is the one I rescued and is growing very well now in a small aquarium semi-emersed - a deep shade of green. I was lucky to have saved it in time.

I found out that the 'perfect' biotope outside is not perfect for anything but algae. Algae really is a remarkable organism. Its thriving outside in extreme conditions. I will be watching it this summer when the thermometer goes beyond 40 degrees C and will measure the water temperature. In full Australian sunlight at air temperatures of 42 degrees C sometimes will be interesting to observe. Its already survived a few summers. Anyways just a story about my lilaeopsis come back from the dead.


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## Hank Junior (Oct 1, 2020)

This is the pot of dark green lilaeopsis and some hair grass I am waiting to grow roots so I can submerge. They are in ADA amazonia ver.2.

The hair grass lighter green is what my other lilaeopsis looks like submerged right now. But this semi-emersed lilaeopsis is a much darker shade of green - reminds me of the colour of terrestrial lawn grass, the kind you mow.

Outside in daylight shows the dark green better, next to the 'perfect' biotope pot. The lilaeopsis is actually a darker green than the grass next to pot outside! Its a cloudy day - can't see the algae inside so well. Some is floating - usually doesn't and stays on bottom. Last shot is in full sun. The white stuff is not an oil film on surface of water - its the reflection of the white clouds today. The only reason I call it the 'perfect' biotope is because it heavily photosynthesises every day (the algae), and except for the occasional floating algae clumps, the water is crystal clear.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Thanks for the progression! I notice that you changed some species along the way--it is good to be flexible and go with what works.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Yeronimo said:


> I have one short question to you: My nitrate level seems to be very low and thread algae love that. How can I increase the nitrate level? Do I just need to feed more?


Love seeing the progression of your tank over time in the latest photos.

I have never heard of any algae loving nitrates, meaning that they prefer nitrates over ammonia. That would be very unusual, plus it goes against the increased energy required for nitrate uptake.

I'm not sure that you need to increase nitrates as your plants don't show any nitrogen deficiency. Most folks would be very pleased to have zero nitrates.


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## FlatfishTanker1 (Mar 13, 2020)

I think the secret to the success of the Monte Carlo might be 3 things. 1: Good quality light. 2: Shallow water (not much water between the light and the plants). 3: No lid to refract or dull the light. And of course, everything Diana Walstad says!


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## Yeronimo (Oct 4, 2020)

Thanks all for your answers. I really changed some plants over the time. In the first months I started using Epipremnum aureum to lower the nitrate level in the tank. Later I put it out because it was no longer needed. I also replaced the swimming plants, because I liked smaller roots for a tank with this hight more.



dwalstad said:


> Love seeing the progression of your tank over time in the latest photos.
> 
> I have never heard of any algae loving nitrates, meaning that they prefer nitrates over ammonia. That would be very unusual, plus it goes against the increased energy required for nitrate uptake.
> 
> I'm not sure that you need to increase nitrates as your plants don't show any nitrogen deficiency. Most folks would be very pleased to have zero nitrates.


You are right. What I meant was that I had a lack of growth over weaks, some leaves turned yellow, the swimming plants were not healthy anymore and thread algae started to grow. So I think that all these aspects have the same reason: 0 nitrate. It seems that there is not enough nitrate for all the plants. After adding some nitrate the plant growth exploded again. The swimming plants are green and replicates fast, Lobelia cardinalis is growing and in full flower again.
So, low nitrate is okay, but zero nitrate seems to be a problem in my tank. What do you think about that? Perhaps I have too much plants .

Today there was a man who said to be that now you recommend to do regular water changes, is this correct?

Thank you for your help!


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## Yeronimo (Oct 4, 2020)

FlatfishTanker1 said:


> I think the secret to the success of the Monte Carlo might be 3 things. 1: Good quality light. 2: Shallow water (not much water between the light and the plants). 3: No lid to refract or dull the light. And of course, everything Diana Walstad says!


Yes, exactly. I think it is very complex and several factors play a role.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Yeronimo said:


> It seems that there is not enough nitrate for all the plants. After adding some nitrate the plant growth exploded again. The swimming plants are green and replicates fast, Lobelia cardinalis is growing and in full flower again.
> So, low nitrate is okay, but zero nitrate seems to be a problem in my tank. What do you think about that? Perhaps I have too much plants .
> 
> Today there was a man who said to be that now you recommend to do regular water changes, is this correct?


You seem to have a very good grasp on what your plants need.

I have not changed my recommendations about water changes for _established_ tanks. However, sometimes during the first few weeks after setup, there are problems--cloudy water, high ammonia, etc--that do require water changes.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Hydrocotyle tripartita is an easy plant to grow that can carpet. It grows like a weed actually.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

mistergreen said:


> Hydrocotyle tripartita is an easy plant to grow that can carpet. It grows like a weed actually.


Based on comments at this website, _H. tripartita_ needs artificial CO2 injection and is a little fussy.

I would love to discover more carpet plants that grow well in NPTs (no CO2 injection). It can be done, but it's a little tricky, because these plants have trouble competing with big, fully submerged plants. Yeronimo got around this by growing the "big guys" emersed in his tank.

I wonder how _H. tripartita_ would measure up with with Yeronimo's _Micranthemum tweediei_ ("Montecarlo-3") in an NPT?


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

dwalstad said:


> Based on comments at this website, _H. tripartita_ needs artificial CO2 injection and is a little fussy.
> 
> I would love to discover more carpet plants that grow well in NPTs (no CO2 injection). It can be done, but it's a little tricky, because these plants have trouble competing with big, fully submerged plants. Yeronimo got around this by growing the "big guys" emersed in his tank.
> 
> I wonder how _H. tripartita_ would measure up with with Yeronimo's _Micranthemum tweediei_ ("Montecarlo-3") in an NPT?


I grew mine in a non CO2 tank for a long while. It out grew everything. 
I'm injecting CO2 now, and growth rate looks the same, maybe the leaves are a bit bigger.


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## Yeronimo (Oct 4, 2020)

dwalstad said:


> You seem to have a very good grasp on what your plants need.
> 
> I have not changed my recommendations about water changes for _established_ tanks. However, sometimes during the first few weeks after setup, there are problems--cloudy water, high ammonia, etc--that do require water changes.


Thank you very much. That is good to know, then I don't have to change anything . I'm really glad that I have the pleasure to meet you here. I love my walstad tank and it won't be the last one!

Next I will try how the plants react on the missing water movement.

I also think that I had a little bit luck with the chosen carpet plant. On the other hand it is very "maintenance-intensive", because I have to cut it very often .

Also fascinating: Monte-Carlo is "bubbling" in my tank, it releases a lot of oxygen. I know the behaviour only from HCC Cuba in another tank of mine with CO2 injection.

Best
Gerd


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

mistergreen said:


> I grew mine in a non CO2 tank for a long while. It out grew everything.
> I'm injecting CO2 now, and growth rate looks the same, maybe the leaves are a bit bigger.


Useful information!


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## FlatfishTanker1 (Mar 13, 2020)

Here's some Hydrocotyle in my no filter, no heater 7G cube. Not exactly carpeting, but filling in slowly. No Co2. Not getting a lot of high intensity light either. I tried it because MD of MD Fish Tanks uses this stuff a LOT! It's funny, because when I first saw Yeronimos' first photo, I thought maybe he made a mistake and misidentified Hydrocotyle by calling it Monte Carlo!


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Here's my non CO2 H. tripartita growing on driftwood, and growing in my anubias, taking over the tank.


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## Weaveman (Dec 13, 2019)

This grows better than any other plant in my co2 75g, but also grows reasonably okay in my 6g with no co2, no ferts, sand substrate, low lights, and no water movement. It really does grow like a weed.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

Wow, that's a nice looking plant! Maybe I can find room in my tank for some more...


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## Yeronimo (Oct 4, 2020)

FlatfishTanker1 said:


> It's funny, because when I first saw Yeronimos' first photo, I thought maybe he made a mistake and misidentified Hydrocotyle by calling it Monte Carlo!


No, it is really Monte Carlo .


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## Daz (Aug 15, 2020)

dwalstad said:


> I would love to discover more carpet plants that grow well in NPTs (no CO2 injection). It can be done, but it's a little tricky, because these plants have trouble competing with big, fully submerged plants. Yeronimo got around this by growing the "big guys" emersed in his tank.


I don't know if this will eventually create a carpet, but my bacopa decided to start sending out horizontal stems with roots in almost every node. It grows slowly, proabably because the tank is very heavily planted with some very efficient carbonate users. I am betting that it's the light intensity what's causing it to grow this way: it's a 15L tank with 1200 lumen led lights and it's also next to a very bright window, without getting direct sunlight though.


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## Mr. Z (Sep 4, 2021)

Can anyone tell me the names of the emergent plants used in Yeronimo's tank?


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## WildTank (May 13, 2021)

Yeronimo said:


> No, it is really Monte Carlo .


Hello


Yeronimo said:


> Thanks all for your answers. I really changed some plants over the time. In the first months I started using Epipremnum aureum to lower the nitrate level in the tank. Later I put it out because it was no longer needed. I also replaced the swimming plants, because I liked smaller roots for a tank with this hight more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hello Yeronimo
I love your tank and thank you for sharing the progress! I am very interested in this low Nitrate = hair algae issue, bc I have it in my Walstadt tanks. I would love to hear more if you have some time to share!
How much/how often did you dose (i.e. to get up to 20ppm, once a week?) 
Are you still dosing Nitrates, or did you find another way around it? Like feeding more? Less plants?
I wonder if I could avoid fertilizing all the time by getting Nitrates up through food, or any other way if you have found one! Did you try to reduce the amount of plants (bc you said you were thinking maybe you have too many plants)? 
I tried to be smart and calculated how much to feed based on Dina Walstadt's genius book p 131 where she describes the nutrients in food. Of course my calculation is flawed bc I didn't measure how many g dried plants I take out of the tank each month, so the calculation is based on her plant load. I feed ~1g dry food a day to my 160l- maybe it's not enough given the consistently 0 ppm N (I have .25-.5 mg/L PO4 and .1-.12mg/L Fe). 

Thank you and I hope you and your tank are doing well!


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