# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Eco Complete rehashed



## weeds (Jan 18, 2004)

Hi all,

This morning I am breaking down my planted 38g tank, removing all the Eco Complete and replacing it with plain Ole sand..sand I use in all the rest of my tanks.

I was wondering if any of you have had a bad experience in using this substrate? I have had nothing but problems ever since I started this tank last December.

First, I have very hard water, ph 8.6, GH 32+. No CO2 on this tank. I have 3 watts per gallon of lighting. With water this hard I keep mostly African Cichlids, but had some success with a couple planted tank in the past. I have had no problems with the plants I keep in the African tanks.

The major problem I have had in using the Eco Complete is I can NOT keep the diatoms or diatom like substance off the plants! I was doing a 30% water change once a week and running a diatom filter after each water change. The tank looks great for about 2 days and then it's right back to looking like a rusty old box. I stepped-up the water changes to 50% and running the diatom filter twice a week..which doesn't seem to help much. Some of the plants got so bad..I threw them my QT tank, which has regular sand. To my surprise those plants are doing great.

I really don't know what is going on, but never had a problem like this before..until I used this substrate. I really loved it at first, it looks great & feels great. Every time I move alittle of it around in the tank..I get this thick cloud. Is it breaking down? Is it because it shouldn't be use with such hard water? Have any of you that use it..had this problem? I only have a AC300 filter running on this tank..but I could add a Ecco Eheim; before tearing this tank apart...Do you think this would help?

Any answers are appreciated.


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## weeds (Jan 18, 2004)

Hi all,

This morning I am breaking down my planted 38g tank, removing all the Eco Complete and replacing it with plain Ole sand..sand I use in all the rest of my tanks.

I was wondering if any of you have had a bad experience in using this substrate? I have had nothing but problems ever since I started this tank last December.

First, I have very hard water, ph 8.6, GH 32+. No CO2 on this tank. I have 3 watts per gallon of lighting. With water this hard I keep mostly African Cichlids, but had some success with a couple planted tank in the past. I have had no problems with the plants I keep in the African tanks.

The major problem I have had in using the Eco Complete is I can NOT keep the diatoms or diatom like substance off the plants! I was doing a 30% water change once a week and running a diatom filter after each water change. The tank looks great for about 2 days and then it's right back to looking like a rusty old box. I stepped-up the water changes to 50% and running the diatom filter twice a week..which doesn't seem to help much. Some of the plants got so bad..I threw them my QT tank, which has regular sand. To my surprise those plants are doing great.

I really don't know what is going on, but never had a problem like this before..until I used this substrate. I really loved it at first, it looks great & feels great. Every time I move alittle of it around in the tank..I get this thick cloud. Is it breaking down? Is it because it shouldn't be use with such hard water? Have any of you that use it..had this problem? I only have a AC300 filter running on this tank..but I could add a Ecco Eheim; before tearing this tank apart...Do you think this would help?

Any answers are appreciated.


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## Wally (Aug 31, 2003)

Diatom problems mean you have a lot of silicates in the water this could very easily be coming from the eco-complete.

When I used to keep reef tanks, there was a lot of talk about using the wrong kind of sand would lead to the same problems you are refering to.

Perhaps with your liquid rock (like I got)it makes it worse? Or perhaps you already have a lot of silicates in the water and this just pushes it over the edge.


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## weeds (Jan 18, 2004)

Thanks Wally,

Something came up yesterday and I didn't break down this tank...but you are right..when you said that the Eco Complete has pushed this tank over the edge. That could only be the answer..since the rest of my tanks are fine. I wouldn't recommend this substrate to someone that already has high ph & gh. It will get changed today


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## feefeefish (Apr 5, 2004)

How do you break down a tank with fish already in it? Or have you removed the fish to another tank?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Weeds,

The precipitated material could be almost anything. However, a rusty colored precipitate that appears fairly quickly...my guess would be iron oxides.

Eco Complete, which seems to work well for many hobbyists, may not be suitable for extremely hardwater tanks like yours.

Thanks for letting us know!


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## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

Don't know if you know or have it in your area, but there are actually several different kinds of Eco-Complete. The most common one is one for freshwater planted tanks. But there are also one specifically made for African cichlid tanks. And I do believe there is yet one more that is for reef tanks. So, 3 different kinds of Eco-Complete for 3 different settings. Maybe the one you got was the one mainly used for planted tanks. I don't know if that would really be that disastrous, but apparently it did do something to your tank. Sorry to hear that









Paul


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## weeds (Jan 18, 2004)

Well, the Eco Complete is now stored in buckets and going to storage..we are moving. I didn't throw it away(too expensive, 4X$20 ouch!!) because I haven't given-up on it and will try again when we are settled in our new home. SE Michigan is known for clay and hard water..but hopefully we will have softer water at our next house.

feefeefish..I breakdown tanks all the time with leaving the fish in it. I have found a systemic way of doing it..without freaking-out the fish to bad. No more than them getting freaked by putting them in a bucket.

Diane, you are right..it's probably iron iron and more iron. It's funny the more I learn in this hobby the more questions I have. Example, I've been using the Estee brand marine sand in my water for awhile now...which would seem to buffer the water up even more..but my readings don't change when using it









SirWrathful, it was the Eco Complete for Planted tanks

Maybe one day I'll have that fully gorgeous tank like the ones I've seen here..but for now I guess it's me, my Africans, my sand, and a few Anubias & Val.

Tank just after planting in last December. These plants faded fast>










The tank now>










I have no idea why the first pic is not coming up..checked it a few times.

O'Well..Thanks again everyone


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## feefeefish (Apr 5, 2004)

How do you break down the tank with the fish still in it? I'd appreciate any tips as mine desperately needs an overhaul! Thank you!


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## weeds (Jan 18, 2004)

feefeefish..what size tank are you wanting to overhaul and what fish are in it?

Here's my approach>

1. turn off heater and filter.
2. remove anything large and/or heavy...decor rocks..so on. depending how much stuff you have in the tank..the water should be about 1/3 down...and the fish should be gathered to one corner.
3. If you are removing live plants..have a pot filled with some of the fish water and gentley remove them and place them in pot..
4. to remove substrate...take your hand and gently push it to one end...to the end the fish are not. Take a medium fish net and start scooping it out. Replace with new substrate at the same end..slowly pushing it throughout the rest of the tank floor.

5. replace everything else to your liking.

I have lost count as to how many times I've done this and have never lost a fish because of it. IMO, fish are stressed a whole lot more when being chased by a net to remove them to another tank or bucket. Some of the fish I've owned..don't seem to mind it at all and are always hanging around my arms and/or picking at them..those dang little Tiger Barbs actually bite!!


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## The Bishop (Mar 11, 2004)

Weeds, I see you're from MI too. Where are you at? Metro Detroit, here. There aren't many plant people around.


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## weeds (Jan 18, 2004)

Yes, but if you push the mound into the hole, you have a cotton patch in Corning, Arkansas









We are about 15 miles due west of you, just off of I96 in New Hudson/Lyon Township. As for aquatic plants in our area..very slim pickens! This is African Cichlid country...Tanganyikans everywhere. The only place I've found a fair selection of plants is at Preuss' Animal House in Lansing..and rumor has it they might be going totally SW.


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## imported_Piscesgirl (Feb 19, 2004)

I have used Estes Marine sand as well (in fact, I have a little in with my Eco Complete). It is NOT supposed to buffer water, although thatfishplace says it does. I found that with my Eco Complete and Estes, the water was buffered for a while, but then went back to no effect. I'm told it is the liquid in the bags of Eco Complete that does the buffering. 

I might suggest that if you try it again to put it in the tank with plants for a bit before you add fish. 

I personally LOVE Eco-Complete.


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## weeds (Jan 18, 2004)

Hi Piscesgirl,

I think your right about the "blackwater" that it is packed in..that's why I didn't throw it away. I will try it again, but I am going to rinse it good first. The rust stuff had no effect on the fish in the tank..but the plants looked like they were smoothered in coats of thick rust. Funny thing, after two days of the plants being replanted in the Estes sand substrate..they looked clean and healthy again. I was surprised to see how fast they cleared-up.


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## imported_Piscesgirl (Feb 19, 2004)

well, I'm glad to hear that all is well!


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## feefeefish (Apr 5, 2004)

Fantastic idea, weeds! Thank you SO much! I sense a major overhaul this week!


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## rusticitas (Mar 10, 2004)

I have three tanks set up with Eco-Complete: 5.5g planted, 2.5g planted and a ~2g planted jar.

The tanks "behave" similarly, but not identically. In the 5.5g I use an Aquaclear Mini filter, a Visi-Therm 25W heater, and a 13W power compact fluorescent desk lamp (~6700K). It is planted with some dwarf hairgrass (E. acicularis), Red Ozelot sword, java moss, Marsilea quadrifolia, and a few others.

I have a constant brown algae problem. It's not quite diatomic like I had in my 10g when I first set that up (which uses pea gravel and laterite) and which an Oto ate up readily. The Oto in my 5.5g ignores this algae. The algae here does not seem "particulate" or more of a "muddy particulate" (that's the best description I can think of).

I also get a little bit of this effect in the 2.5g Betta tank. That only uses a heater and screw in PCF light. Mostly just the glass gets some algae, not so much the plants. There is not filter. I did not get any algae for the longest time in the ~2g jar, and it is not brown like the 5.5g.

Essentially the filtered 5.5g tank I have with the Eco-Complete is much more problematic with the algae than any other tank. Unfortunately(?) I have two unopened bags of Eco-Complete! I was planning to use them on a 20g tank I acquired, but now I'm wondering if that's a good idea. I will wait this out and see.

(The 5.5g has been set up since approximately the end of Feb or the beginning of Mar.)


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