# The challenges and the rewards are in submersed growth!



## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Emersed growth is easy, but so many crypts look just plain green and no more interesting than a weed in your lawn. Submersed growth is where the beauty comes out--- the subtle browns, reds, purples and oranges. Of course, submersed growth is where you can also have meltdowns and even lose a species entirely! Unfortunately, I apparently can't post pictures here, or I could show some of the beauty of submersed growth. Go to Jan Bastmeijer's site and look for the submersed picture of C. beckettii. That is what I am talking about.


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## MiamiAG (Jan 13, 2004)

Posting will be available shortly. 

Many people agree with you. In an underwater environment, Crypts take on beautiful hues and leaf shapes. However, it is sometimes more difficult to maintain them than in an emersed culture.

Paul Krombholz and others are trying their hand at maintaining many species submersed. I'll try and get Paul to share with us his methods.

I think, however, that Paul has really nailed down how to grow crypts emersed. He grows them on his kitchen counter in soda bottles! :shock: And you thought crypts were hard to grow???


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

*Crypts in soda pop bottles*

It is a good way to keep crypts and any other aquarium plants for long periods of time with very little care. I cut the top portion off of a two liter bottle, put soil, the plant, and about 1/4 inch of water in the bottom, and then tape the top back on with transparent packaging tape that is about 2 inches wide. It is best to fit the top portion a few millimeters inside the bottom portion so that condensation water stays inside and does not run down the outside of the bottle and wet the tape. Every week or two or three I put in a flake or two of oatmeal to provide CO2. The soil provides enough nutrients for several months of growth, and then small amounts can be added if needed. A good way to add N and P is to put in a small flake of dried liver. A little of that goes a long way.


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## panaque (Jan 21, 2004)

I am going to have to try that soda bottle method! What do you recomend for going from emersed to submersed as far as crypts are concerned? I dont want a "meltdown"!


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

> What do you recomend for going from emersed to submersed as far as crypts are concerned? I dont want a "meltdown"!


I have never had a problem. I just submerge the plant. The leaves grown in the air seem to last quite a long time, and the new leaves start growing right away. The difference in leaf shape and color can be quite dramatic. I remember gettting some kind of potted, mislabeled crypt grown emersed that turned out to be the so-called red wendtii. The emersed leaves were green with a slightly pinkish midrib, and the petioles were pink. The blades were narrow elliptic and flat. The submersed leaves were much longer with short petioles, highly bullate, and dark chololate brown with dark red undersides. Like all wendtii, the blades tended to be widest at the base and tapered gradually to the tips. I guess that leaf type would be called lanceolate.


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## illumbomb (Feb 4, 2004)

Hi, 

For the soda bottle method, should the cap of the bottle be screwed on or should it be discarded to allow air-circulation? Thanks.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

*Soda pop bottle method*

I leave the cap screwed on. If it is off, the culture will dry out much more quickly. With the cap on, you may have to replace water once every three years!. With air circulation limited that much, I put in a flake of oatmeal every several weeks to supply CO2.

I also have the upper part of the bottle with the cap fitted inside the lower part. This way, most of condensation water runs down the inside of the bottle rather than the outside. If the condensation water runs down the outside, it, over time, carries away all the stickum of the tape, and the tape turns white and comes loose.


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Paul,

I think I'm going to keep the 2L soda bottle industry in business by myself because of you.  How do you recommend putting the top of the bottle in the base? I had to cut a substantial slit in the side of the top to get it to fit.


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

oatmeal?...CO2? ...eh? I need an explaination please


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Yeasts in the air will decompose the sugars in the oatmeal, producing CO2. It's the same concept as a DIY reactor, only in the air.


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

panaque said:


> What do you recomend for going from emersed to submersed as far as crypts are concerned? I dont want a "meltdown"!


I don't think it's so much a problem to go from emersed to submersed form. From what I've seen, "crypt melt" tends to happen most commonly when you take the submersed form and transfer it to another tank with very different conditions. Another instance that it has occurred in my own experience was something I'd like to call "crypt crash." I had some type of wendtii that grew like mad, leaves breaking the surface of the water and such, until one day, some of the outer leaves started to rot away. It was almost as if it had grown to the point where maybe the level of nutrients I was adding to the tank was not enough to sustain this rate of growth, so it had to "shed" part of itself. This is nothing more than a wild guess, but it happened regularly; several of the leaves would melt and then the plant would resume normal growth. Several months later, it did this again. Oh yeah - it also happened with my C. wendtii 'Tropica'. It's still alive and well, though. It's similar to something I've heard people mention about Sagittaria - it's growing like wildfire until one day, it stops and some of the plants start dying off. In this case, I think it *is* a case where the nutrients in the tank are not enough to sustain the rate of growth, and POOF. A sort of die-off takes place for a while until a balance is achieved.

I don't know about the fussier Crypts, but wendtiis are typically super-hardy and can bounce back quickly from melt.

-Naomi


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

*melt downs*

Crypt melt was invented by the Gods to keep mortals from getting swelled heads. Just when you think you think you have got conditions really good for crypts, just when you think there are no more problems to solve, and you are really on top of things, just when you think you have finally hit the "sweet spot" and are going to produce crypts by the bushel, the dreaded melt down starts its inexorable course. I would not recommend crypts as a hobby to anyone who has manic depressive tendencies. In fact, the crypt hobbyist had better be unusually resistant to the ups and downs of the hobby.


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

Hey, wouldn't that make an interesting marketing ploy? "With each crypt you purchase, receive one free week's supply of anti-depressant." :lol:


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

> How do you recommend putting the top of the bottle in the base? I had to cut a substantial slit in the side of the top to get it to fit.


You cut the top portion of the bottle just before or just where it gets as wide as it is going to be. Fitting it inside the bottom portion often takes a little fussing and maneuvering, but you only need to get a 1/4 or 1/3 inch overlap. Perhaps warming the bottom portion would make it easier. Once you get it right, you tape it with the packaging tape.


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## MiamiAG (Jan 13, 2004)

*On crypt melt*

I've kept crypts for many years. I remember when everyone thought crypt melt was a disease that you needed to protect healthy plants from.

IMO based on my experience and observation, crypt melt is nothing more than a quick response by the plants to a change in their environment. Crypts are extremely well adapted to change quickly.

Try to maintain a stable, healthy environment and you will do fine long-term. You will experience crypt melt because some variable is bound to become unstable. Your plants will recover if you take action to re-stabilize the variable that went awry. There is anecdotal evidence of crypts coming back years after melting away.


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

I gotta say thank you to heypk for posting this.... my grocery store thanks you for all the business they are getting from me and my buddies buying all their 2 liter soda bottles!! 

I'm going to have a crypt factory now hehe. I was wondering, so ambient sunlight is all that is needed to grow crypts? where do you guys place your crypt pots?


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

The title of this thread was supposed to promote submersed growth, and here we are, all discussing emersed growth!! Oh well. 

Morning or evening sun is best. All day or noonday sun may overheat the plants in the soda pop bottles. You could take the tops off, and they might be cooler. Partial shade created by netting, the way that greenhouses do it. would probably be fine. South Texas summer temperatures are pretty formidable. Let us know how well your crypts do.


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## Sir_BlackhOle (Jan 25, 2004)

I keep mine on a more or less south facing window here in south texas. I leave the window screen on to help keep light/temp down. Seems to be working as mine are doing well. Summer isnt really here yet so they may end up being moved to another window to get morning light instead.


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

my south facing window gets B-Lasted with sunlight...in fact, in the summertime, that area gets so so oh so hot... for me, an eastern facing window is a lot cooler , but the tradeoff is less light..


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

I would like to attempt to steer this topic aback to Paul's original purpose hehe. 

Ok, submersed growing of crypts doesn't seem to be all too difficult. I've had them growing in 1 wpg, they grow slow, but nice and healthy.. by the way, they were grown in a soil substrate with gravel on top... 


when i grow them in higher light, they go pale on me.... i've added jobes sticks underneath them but haven't seen a complete turnaround yet. I'm hoping there's a better way to make them better. ... oh and another interesting thing is....they grow real well in a alkaline substrate... 

I bought some kitty litter and it was very alkaline... the crypts grew amazingly well, but when i switched to flourite, they didn't grow as well...


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## Sir_BlackhOle (Jan 25, 2004)

I have some growing in gravel/laterite and some in flourite. They seem to do really well in my 75 with 2 watts per gallon and laterite under the gravel.


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## stocker (Jun 15, 2004)

*Re: Crypts in soda pop bottles*



HeyPK said:


> A good way to add N and P is to put in a small flake of dried liver. A little of that goes a long way.


Sorry if it sounds stupid, but just to clarify, dried liver is simply raw liver, dried in the sun for a couple of hours till it's like dry? :?: Also can I substitute oatmeal with other cereals? Thanks!


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Stocker wrote:



> ........just to clarify, dried liver is simply raw liver, dried in the sun for a couple of hours till it's like dry? Question Also can I substitute oatmeal with other cereals? .........


Yes, it is raw liver, dried until it is hard. I like to place it in small bits on a non-stick surface, because they are easier to remove once they have dried. It doesn't have to be dried in the sun, although that would work faster than drying it indoors, which takes a couple of days. Keep it out of the reach of cats. They love it!

I like oatmeal because it doesn't have much soluble in it. Other cereals, including dry cereals would be OK. Basically the only requirements are that it be organic and easy enough for bacteria and fungi to break down so that it is pretty much gone in a week.


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## stocker (Jun 15, 2004)

HeyPK, thanks for clearing that up for me.


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## HanshaSuro (Jun 22, 2004)

hubbahubbahehe said:


> I bought some kitty litter and it was very alkaline... the crypts grew amazingly well, but when i switched to flourite, they didn't grow as well...


I have a similar experience to hubba in that my crypts (submersed) do not look good or grow as well in flourite as in other substrates (e.g. Schultz). Has anyone else noticed this?


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