# So frustrated with algae I'm ready to give up!



## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

First it was Cladophora which I was only able to get rid of because I was moving and had to take down anyway. All plants were given a bleach dip before replanting in new setup.

Now.... it's what I think is hair algae. I've tried peroxide with no luck. Can't do Excel overdose as I have a bunch of shrimp. In desperation I even tried the Method of Controlled Imbalances. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=69737 That worked for about 3 days. It's suffocating my plants and I'm at my wits end with this!

Here are my stats:
36gal bowfront, uncovered
Finnex Fugeray Planted Plus on total of 9.5 hours directly on top of tank. No window light. 
NH3: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: 20

Is this too much light? On too long?

I am so frustrated I'm ready to rehome fish and just tear the whole thing down! I've trimmed so many leaves off my sword it's a mere skeleton.


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## ObiQuiet (Oct 9, 2009)

Could you rehome the shrimp during the Excel over-dose phase, instead of rehoming the fish and taking down the tank?

(I just did the Excel treatment myself, and it worked. Important snails and shrimp were removed for their safety. I am currently determining if I want to continue with a normal Excel dose just for the convenience, or continue working to solve the root cause of the algae growth.)


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## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

I would have to take all of the plants out to get the shrimp captured. I thought about that. Not even sure how many are in there. 

I use a normal dose already. Algae could care less! 

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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

What is your PO4 level?

I'm not familiar with that light but I'll assume its a T5HO 39w x 2. 
Cut back to 6 hours and see if things get better.
What bulbs are you using in that fixture?

What is your water change routine?

Type of substrate?

Hard water or soft water?


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## mooncon (Oct 12, 2011)

I believe that finnex is an led,i would cut back on light cycle also I run mine on one tank 4 hours in the morning and 5 1/2 hours at night.My other tank gets 4 hours in the morning and 4 1/2 at night.Don't give up the fight against algae, ive fought it in one of my tanks since I set it up and I am finally getting the upper hand.Its been set up for about three years as a planted tank,its a 150 gallon discus tank so I feed heavy twice a day so I do expect some algae in it.I really got the upper hand when I raised my light about 2 1/2".As far as excel I dose 15cc's per day in my 75 gallon shrimp tank cant really tell its hurt the shrimp.


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## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

It's an LED light. No PAR data that I can find. http://www.finnex.net/index.php/pro...es/finnex-fugeray-planted-led-fixture-30.html Supposed to be designed for low tech tanks.

Been changing 50% weekly the last month. Prior to that, about 40% every 2 weeks.

Don't have a PO4 kit. Should I get one?

Substrate 1in Scott's Premium topsoil capped with 1in Flourite Black Sand. Soil had been rinsed and drained several times prior to setting up. Tank has been running since September. Mature filter media. Never had any NH3 or NO2.

Soft water that is treated with Equilibrium to bring KH to 4 and GH to 5.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Are you dosing PO4?

Are you able to shut off the blue moon lights?

Type of gravel/substrate?


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## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

No PO4 dosing. I can shut off moonlights. See above for substrate.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

GadgetGirl said:


> No PO4 dosing.


That would cause an imbalance and encourage algae.

Are you able to shut off the blue moon lights?

Type of gravel/substrate?


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## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

I shut off moonlights and shortened lighting to 7 1/2 hours. 
Substrate Scott's premium topsoil capped with Fluorite Black Sand. No PO4.

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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

hhhmmmmm..............

Almost all garden products today include wood chips as filler. I have no experience with dirt substrate so I will refrain from giving advice on that subject.

The GH and KH sound good. If your Nitrates are 20ppm then PO4 should be about 10% of that.

As for my reason to turn off the blue lights is it can cause photo-reduction of iron. This is where blue light can breakdown the iron chelant and leave the iron in free form - a feast for algae. This is from Walstad's book.


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## mooncon (Oct 12, 2011)

If this is your first planted tank just remember it takes time after making changes to notice a difference.It is not something you will see over night


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## JKUK (Feb 16, 2007)

You probably need more fast growing plants, especially floaters like hornwort, lettuce, salvinia, duckweed etc. These will help reduce the light and settle things down. 

I would also add more fast growers like ambulia, Vallis and Egeria.

Depending on just how bright your lights are, you may need to lift them higher above the aquarium to reduce light further.

Personally I never find doing water changes helpful in this situation, it's more a matter of being patient and letting nature do the work.


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## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

I have lots of stems including wisteria which grows like crazy. For some reason my duckweed died off in this set up. I've always had good luck with hornwort. Maybe I'll order some more. I got sick of it and got rid of what I had. 

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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

I don’t understand all this chemistry at all. Here is what I do. Scissors! Remove all leaves that are infested with algae. Clean the glass. Clean the filter. Remove as much of the algae as you can. Do a large water change. Wait one week and do that all again. 

I sometimes use algaefix at this point. I just use it according to the directions on the container. It seems to work well. 

In the mean time I up the doses of ferts. I am not sure if you are using ferts or not but more than likely the plants leaves are infested with algae simply because they are not thriving and more than likely that is because they lack nutrition. I realize that this isn’t common NPT practice but I don’t keep a lot of fish and therefore I need to supplement the water column. I use the basic ei recipe but at about one thirdc strength. 

For the most part I am not supplementing co2 at all. I find that eliminates certain plants but I don’t find that it effects those that will do well without it all that much. They just grow more slowly. I don’t find it has anything to do with algae problems. 

Or something like that!


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## JKUK (Feb 16, 2007)

GadgetGirl said:


> I have lots of stems including wisteria which grows like crazy. For some reason my duckweed died off in this set up. I've always had good luck with hornwort. Maybe I'll order some more. I got sick of it and got rid of what I had.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Go for it, let it take over for a while until the tank settles. Then just thin it out occasionally, but never get rid of it entirely. It's a great safety net.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Please, pleas do NOT use AlgaeFix if you have fish in the tank.
It puts a 'hurt' on them and you will realize this as soon as you dose.


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## JKUK (Feb 16, 2007)

Newt said:


> Please, pleas do NOT use AlgaeFix if you have fish in the tank.
> It puts a 'hurt' on them and you will realize this as soon as you dose.


I'm with you on that, the whole point of a Walstad tank is you don't need to add anything. That includes anti-algae products and ferts.


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## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

Oh... I would never add Algae Fix!! No chemicals! 

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## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

So here's what I'm doing:
1. 40 % water change 
2. Lights decreased to 7.5 hrs
3. Turned all blue lights off. (I actually have 2 sets. One that is part of light fixture and a separate one that stays on 24 hrs.) 
4. Ordered 4 bunches of hornwort. 
5. Ordered an API PO4 kit. 

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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Excel is not a chemical? My bad sorry.


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## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

Haha... You're right. Got me there! I quit using it. Doesn't seem to make any difference.


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## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

Received my hornwort and API phosphate kit today. Phosphate measured 1 (tap water 0.5). Is this too high? 

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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

If your PO4 is 1ppm then your NO3 should be at least 10ppm


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## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

NO3 is 40


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Lower it to about 20ppm and keep PO4 at 1 to 2 ppm.

Do you have CO2? If yes, keep steady at 30ppm

Almost all types of algae do NOT like current. Do you have enough current? Are all the plants moving back and forth from water circulation?


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

I'm confused on your Fines lighting system. You sent a link to one for planted tanks that includes 7,000K and 660nm LED's plus moonlights. Yet you mentioned that you turned off both sets of Blues. I have found that blue lighting seems to spike algae in my tanks. In experimenting with LED's when I used 6,500K LED's I had fair plant growth but always an Algae issue. But with mixing them with 4,500K LED's the algae growth decreased and the plant growth increased. You need a balance between red and blue light. If the red or the blue is out of proportion plant growth hurts and if the blue is to strong algae growth is hard to control.

Another issue is how old is present set up. I have never run through a cycling of a fresh water or salt water tank where I did not have a spike in algae production. I have learned to minimize this spike but it is always there. Your high numbers of 40 for NO3 indicates to me that your tank is probably has not completed its cycling yet. Or in an established tank it is long overdue for a water change.


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## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

I wasn't too clear about the blue lights that I have. One set is part of the Finnex light and can't be put on a separate timer so the whole unit goes off at night. I have a second independent strip that I bought on ebay that stays on at night. (Actually the added strip of blue LEDs stay on 24/7.) I had no idea that blue lights could cause algae problems. I was innudating the tank with blue! 

The tank has been set up since September. It has a Scots Premium Topsoil with Fluorite Black Sand cap substrate.(The soil was rinsed, drained and sifted 3-4 times. A mature filter was used as the same tank had been running for over a year in a different location. I have never had any measurable NH3 or NO2. Up until a month ago I was changing 30% of water every 2 weeks. At that time NO3 was 10-20. I tried the KN03 protocol of the MCI and started doing 50% weekly water changes as recommended by Christian Rubilar (the inventer of the technique). I have stopped the MCI method as it doesn't appear to work in dirted tanks with no CO2. I am continuing to do 50% weekly water changes. 

I guess what makes me so upset is that this algae is killing my gorgeous Amazon sword and 15 year old Anubias. My Ludwigia which used to be so lush has had to be discarded.


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## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

I have an Aquaclear HOB filter which seems to provide adequate current as the plants sway . The algae just waves in the current! I don't have CO2. I am due for a 50% change Saturday. That should get the remaining NO3 down hopefully. I will aim for 20. 

Thank you to everyone who has been helping me! I appreciate the input!! I have had aquariums all my life, but I'm new to plants, so I'm still learning.


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

GadgetGirl said:


> I am due for a 50% change Saturday. That should get the remaining NO3 down hopefully. I will aim for 20.
> .


I only do 50% water changes in emergencies. Otherwise I try to do 20% changes every third day. When I;m forced to do a 50% water change I usually end up doing it several days in a row to get things to normal. Also make sure your new water is close to what your hoping to get in most aspects. This avoids excessive shock to the system.

Note if you NO4 is at 40 now and your tap water is at 10 then the first 50% change will be lucky to get you 25ppm, The next one will probably get you to around 17 ppm, and the 3rd one will get you around 13-14. This is not counting any increases that are already occurring.


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## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

It's very close. I only add a half dose of Equilibrium to bring the GH up. The fish and shrimp, which BTW are doing really well, seem invigorated by the water change! It's probably closer to 40- 45% anyway.


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## GadgetGirl (Sep 25, 2013)

Well, I have followed everyone's advice and I must say the algae is subsiding! No more hair algae. Just some green fuzz on some older leaves. Of course, I changed so many variables I'm not sure which one worked! None of the blue lights are on and I've shortened the photo period. Added the Hornwort. I'll keep the blue lights off except maybe when I have company and want to show off! Haha! Will continue with shorter photo period to see if plants are still OK with it. 

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## JMG (Feb 28, 2015)

Good luck 
And don't give up you will get there.


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## walzon1 (Feb 24, 2014)

They might have all worked I have had the same problems with too much lighting, shortening photo period, no blue lights, and floaters to help disperse light all have an effect. Could be its the combination that is the solution. If algae were as simple as just one aspect, like just the blue lights for example, nobody would have problems.


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