# Parasite treatment



## Fleur (Apr 23, 2007)

Help! My npt is in crisis. It houses one crowntail betta, some mts, two hygrophila polysperma, one hygrophila difformis, two java ferns, and an aponogeton. The fish, Jerry Garcia, has a small, tan growth on his upper lip. It bothers him, doesn't look like the pictures of leeches, anchor worms, or flukes exactly. I can't get a good picture of it to post. It's small and doesn't really show up. It's clearly very firmly connected to him. About three days before the growth was visible, he started spitting out the hikari bio gold pellets a few times before eating them. This was new behavior for him. So I was a bit puzzled and fed him some frozen brine shrimp.

pH-7.8
temp-82
tank-5 gallon eclipse w/ bio wheel
light-flourescent

I don't have a lot of snails, I don't overfeed my fish, and I do appear to have some mild algae growth on the front of the tank which I will take care of at my next w/c. So far I've tried crunching up some Jungle Anti-Parasite food, but he spits it out immediately. I've tried soaking it in brine shrimp, crushing, etc. He just won't eat the food.

This is my first planted tank. I don't know what medications are safe. I don't want to throw my system out of whack. I figured the food might work for an external since the bugger is on his mouth, but I don't think it'll do much good unless he actually eats the stuff.

He's swimming pretty normally, not losing color, and not clamping. Overall, he doesn't seem to be in serious distress. I just really need to get this taken care of. I could remove him to treat him, but if there are parasites present in the water, I worry that it wouldn't do much in the long term. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

If anyone has specific questions for me that could help me figure out what the problem is and how to treat it, I'd be happy to check with the tank and answer promptly.

Thanks a million,

D'lyse


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## NatalieT (Mar 20, 2007)

At the risk of suggesting the impossible--have you checked whether there's something wrong inside his mouth? (I can't figure out how you'd look in a fish's mouth, but if he's spitting out food, that's where I'd look for the problem)


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

I would suggest taking him out and put him in a hospital tank (5G)...There you can treat him properly and not have meds affect the NPT.

A picture would help greatly.. 
look through the symptoms on this site.. It might help.
http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html


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## Nevermore (Mar 26, 2007)

I'm wondering if he doesn't have internal parasites and the thing on his mouth is just a secondary infection. This happened with my apisto. Spitting out of food is very common with internal parasites. Is his fecal matter white and stringy? If it's normal, that would be a good sign.


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## Fleur (Apr 23, 2007)

Thanks all, the "parasite" in question seems to be hooked just inside his lip. He frequently grabs it with his mouth, spits it, grabs it, etc. I can't get a good picture. It looks like it could be an anchor worm (?) or something similar, but I have noticed that he looks a little bloated this morning, and there seems to be some debris on the leaves of my plants.

All I have on hand is the Jungle Anti-Parasite food (which he won't eat) and the Jungle parasite clear fizz tablets (which claim to be safe for plants, but...). If I treat him in a hospital tank, will he relapse when I put him back in the planted tank? I'm on day three with the Anti-Parasite food. He still won't swallow any. Even when he was spitting out the HBG pellets, he'd still eat them eventually. Not so much with these.

I cannot tell you how much I value all your advice. I can put him in the 2 gallon, but it won't be filtered. Cycling that tank will take about a week, and I'd like to get this thing rolling asap. The five gallon tank he's in is my largest tank. I only have one betta, so I don't have a whole lot of equipment.

It's also worth mentioning that I'm out of work right now and can't really afford any meds that I don't have on hand. I have Jungle Parasite Clear fizz tabs, JFE, Tetracycline (gram +), Triple Sulpha (gram -), Jungle anti-parasite food, and Jungle anti-bacterial food.

Thanks again,

D'lyse


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## Fleur (Apr 23, 2007)

Nevermore said:


> I'm wondering if he doesn't have internal parasites and the thing on his mouth is just a secondary infection. This happened with my apisto. Spitting out of food is very common with internal parasites. Is his fecal matter white and stringy? If it's normal, that would be a good sign.


I haven't seen his poop. It gets a little lost in all the plants and gravel. I can watch him, but since he hasn't really been eating, I don't think I'll see him in the act.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Parasites usually die if they don't have a host to attach to. So if there's no fish in your tank for 3-4 weeks... The parasites usually go away. Although you have snails. Snails usually are disease carriers. I guess you might as well treat the whole tank..Your snails will probably die.

Good luck with the betta.


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## Fleur (Apr 23, 2007)

Ah... I see. I guess it's probably best to treat the tank then. I don't overfeed, so I don't have many snails, but since one never knows how many tiny snails may be about, there's probably no other feasible option. I don't mind losing the snails. They hitchhiked with the plants anyway. My plants are all pretty sturdy species, so hopefully they'll survive the treatment (that says plant safe). Snail loss is collateral damage. Thanks for the advice, mistergreen. I'll update.

I just did a water change, pre-dissolved half the tab (one tablet doses a 10 gallon and I have a 5), and removed the carbon from the filter. Thanks for the luck. The thing that was hanging on his lip seems to bother him less now. He's stopped chomping on it and letting it go. Hopefully that's a good sign. Thanks for all the great advice, I'm still open to more. I really value everyone's input on this. Thanks everyone for all the help, I'll keep updating.

--D'lyse


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## Fleur (Apr 23, 2007)

So far so good. The growth hasn't fallen off just yet. I'm still watching, and as per instructions, I will do a 25% water change and re-dose next Saturday. I think it's already killed my tiny snails, but I have a few bigger ones that are still scootin' around the tank.

Does this stuff dye the water after awhile? I remember using a med ages ago (before I had plants) that was clear to start with and turned the water pink after two days. By day three, it looked like the water had been dyed by beets. No warnings on the package. It was a bit shocking.


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## Fleur (Apr 23, 2007)

Okay, the growth is still attached. Bloating seems diminished, but I'm not 100% sure. He's started fiddling with the stringy growth again. I'm still feeding him the anti-parasite food (which he won't really eat). Is there something I should be looking for? When will this thing die and fall off his poor fish face? I'm not seeing any redness or irritation in the area so far. His color is lovely. New fin growth has slowed a bit (he only just stopped fin-biting when he got the new tank), but that could be because of the stress from illness or meds. No fin deterioration, so I'm not fretting just yet.


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## Nevermore (Mar 26, 2007)

Fleur said:


> Okay, the growth is still attached. Bloating seems diminished, but I'm not 100% sure. He's started fiddling with the stringy growth again. I'm still feeding him the anti-parasite food (which he won't really eat). Is there something I should be looking for? When will this thing die and fall off his poor fish face? I'm not seeing any redness or irritation in the area so far. His color is lovely. New fin growth has slowed a bit (he only just stopped fin-biting when he got the new tank), but that could be because of the stress from illness or meds. No fin deterioration, so I'm not fretting just yet.


It's a good sign his color is good. Any changes in behavior? You're probably better off not trying to feed him during treatment, especially since he's not taking it anyway. I would keep a careful check on your water parameters; make sure he has good, clean water. We're really just shooting in the dark here since he hasn't given us real clear signs as to what it is so it's good to keep everything as optimal as possible to give him the best chance to fight off whatever it is. The growth isn't cottony at all, right?


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## Fleur (Apr 23, 2007)

Nevermore said:


> It's a good sign his color is good. Any changes in behavior? You're probably better off not trying to feed him during treatment, especially since he's not taking it anyway. I would keep a careful check on your water parameters; make sure he has good, clean water. We're really just shooting in the dark here since he hasn't given us real clear signs as to what it is so it's good to keep everything as optimal as possible to give him the best chance to fight off whatever it is. The growth isn't cottony at all, right?


He'll eat his regular food, just not the medicated stuff. Do you think I should feed the regular pellets? Some frozen brine shrimp? I check water parameters daily when my fish is sick. So far so good. They were perfect when he started getting sick, so I'm at a loss. The growth is decidedly un-cottony. It looks like a strand of java moss sans leaves with a branched section at the very end. It's tiny, tiny, and doesn't look fuzzy. It's a sort of taupe shade in color. It also doesn't show up in pictures since it's so small and so beige (matches his li'l head). Keep the advice coming. I'm open to any suggestion.

--D'lyse


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

when in doubt, give him a salt bath... that should kill any external parasites.


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## Fleur (Apr 23, 2007)

mistergreen said:


> when in doubt, give him a salt bath... that should kill any external parasites.


Cool. Perhaps I should do that when I do my next water change. I've never done a bath before. Should I use aquarium or Epsom salts, and do you have any idea where I can find dosages?


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## Nevermore (Mar 26, 2007)

Fleur said:


> He'll eat his regular food, just not the medicated stuff. Do you think I should feed the regular pellets? Some frozen brine shrimp? I check water parameters daily when my fish is sick. So far so good. They were perfect when he started getting sick, so I'm at a loss. The growth is decidedly un-cottony. It looks like a strand of java moss sans leaves with a branched section at the very end. It's tiny, tiny, and doesn't look fuzzy. It's a sort of taupe shade in color. It also doesn't show up in pictures since it's so small and so beige (matches his li'l head). Keep the advice coming. I'm open to any suggestion.
> 
> --D'lyse


Well, that's really encouraging! I didn't realize that. I thought he wasn't taking food. Continue to feed him then, a good varied diet. By feeding him it does allow you to track how he's doing; you can judge this by how eagerly he goes for the food.

It's good the growth is un-cottony. He's continuuing to behave normal?


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Fleur said:


> Cool. Perhaps I should do that when I do my next water change. I've never done a bath before. Should I use aquarium or Epsom salts, and do you have any idea where I can find dosages?


You can google for more accurate info but I've done it with 2-3 tablespoon of aquarium salt in half a gallon of water. Leave the fish in for a minute.. It seems like forever.


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## Nevermore (Mar 26, 2007)

Treatment with salt is reasonable but hopefully the parasite clear will work. When a fish is sick you want to keep stressors down to a minimum so maybe treating with salt after you've tried the Parasite Clear. If you do go ahead with the salt you want to monitor the fish closely to see that it doesn't stop moving and if it does to quickly remove it from the salt bath and in to fresh water. Make sure the temps on both waters is the same and that the salt is thoroughly dissolved beforehand.


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## Fleur (Apr 23, 2007)

Update: It's water-change dose day. So far he's still a happy, active little fish. Still has great color. Still eats normally (as long as the food isn't medicated). My plants don't seem to be suffering from the meds. I'm planning my dose as usual. I might wait on the salt bath until later unless he seems to take a bad turn. Instructions say do a 25% wc before adding the next dose, so I'll siphon a little over a gallon of water out and then re-dose. I've been pre-dissolving the tablets before adding them in, just because I prefer it that way. Thanks folks for keeping up with me and continually posting more advice. I really appreciate your involvement.

I'll post with any updates, questions, or changes. I'm continually puzzled that there aren't any symptoms besides the thing hanging off his mouth. Shouldn't he be sluggish, faded, etc.?

--D'lyse


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## Fleur (Apr 23, 2007)

Update: Jerry still has great color, a great attitude, and is eating normally as long as I'm not trying to feed him anti-parasite food. My plants are wilty (probably at least in part because I haven't been lighting it as much as I was). I don't see any dinky snails, but one or two bigger snails is still scooting around my tank. I'm not sure if the JPC is working, but it's not making things worse. Any bloating he had is back to normal, but the stringy bit on his lip is still present. Hopefully it'll drop off eventually. Water change and second dosing went off without a hitch.

--D'lyse


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## Fleur (Apr 23, 2007)

Dose three came three days late. Hopefully this won't be a huge issue. I'm not seeing the thing on Jerry Garcia's mouth anymore. Last Friday I saw some small, whitish wiggly wormies in the water, no more than 1.5 mm in length. Today, I don't see them, but I'll keep checking. They might be trouble, or they might be harmless. Or they might be gone completely. I have one more dose before I'm done with the meds altogether. So far I've suffered some thinning of my hygrophila difformis & polysperma. I may get some more to plant and fill in a little later. The aponogeton is really fighting. I also seem to have leveled off at four snails or so, two or three of them quite large now.

I'm also still trying to find just the right light balance. I'm getting a little brown algae on the tank front (which I wipe off at every water change). If I decrease light usage, my plants suffer a little. I'll worry about it after Jerry seems fully healed.

Suggestions and advice are welcome.


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## Nevermore (Mar 26, 2007)

Well, that's good news the thing on his mouth is gone. The little, white worms may be planaria. They usually reproduce by asexual fission and can divide into hundreds fairly quickly. I would definitely monitor this in case it is planaria. They can be controlled by vacuuming the substrate and doing a 50% water change, reducing the amount of food that is fed to the fish, and keeping the tank clean. There are other measures that can be taken as well, but hopefully if it is planaria it doesn't become problematic. EDIT: It just occurred to me, Jerry Garcia is a betta, that's one of the few fish that will eat planaria.

The brown algae can be caused by stirring up the substrate, decreasing light won't help. Otocinclus eat brown algae.

Really glad to hear Jerry Garcia is doing better!


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## Fleur (Apr 23, 2007)

Hmm... planaria could be a possibility. I'll keep an eye on the water and see what happens. I already siphon from the bottom of the tank when I do my water changes. I also only feed him three pellets a day (which he eats immediately), so I'm not sure that overfeeding could be the problem. Since he's been in the new tank, I've stopped my frozen brine shrimp feedings so that I can get him used to eating from a surface with more current before I get in there with the toothpick. I don't want the shrimpies sinking to the bottom unseen.



Nevermore said:


> The brown algae can be caused by stirring up the substrate, decreasing light won't help. Otocinclus eat brown algae.


That's odd because I never disturb the substrate when I siphon because I don't want the water to turn into mud. I wonder what could be causing it... *ponder* Perhaps this is all part of the water-column over-fertilization stage of the natural tank. I'd love to add a critter that eats brown algae, but I don't want to increase my bioload too much. It's only a five gallon tank, and most of the small-sized bottom feeders I know of are social fish. Octos like to have friends. If there's a critter I could add that can handle the heat (82 to 85 degrees) who doesn't need friends, I'm open to suggestion. It would also have to be the type of fella who won't dig in the substrate.

Thanks again for the input. I really appreciate all the help.

--Fleur


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## Fleur (Apr 23, 2007)

Okay... here goes.

Jerry's doing great. The lip hanger-thing is officially gone. I can now recommend the Jungle Parasite Clear fizz tabs for both the killing of parasites and for the not-killing of my plants and snails (which, as it turns out, are pond snails). I asked our local fish store's resident plant guru about my snails now that they're large enough to identify -- I have about six or seven.

The plants are doing great. I have some normal thinning because the plants are still in their acclamation phase. I spoke, at length, with my local guru. He also recommended otos and assured me that three wouldn't topple my bio-load in a planted five gallon. We are both a little concerned about the safety of the otos since Jerry's an attack-fish, but I think if I introduce them I'll do it on a weekend when I can watch carefully to see if it works out. He also said it's possible that the B.A. will taper off as the tank continues to stabilize. It's only had life in it for about a month and a half now, so it's still in flux.

He recommended small, weekly water changes and pruning maintenance. Can anyone recommend some tools? I'm super broke, but I'd like to get tools I won't have to replace after a year. I've heard good things about some specialized aquascaping tools (aquarium tweezers and the like). What do you lovely folks recommend, and do you know where I can get some for reasonable prices -- I'm seriously living paycheck to paycheck. Five bucks for three otos might make things a bit tight for the regular bills.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Hey, I'm not sure if you would even need those otos... Maybe 1 or 2. or none.

And a handy pair of scissors is what I use to prune my plants.. Just make sure to dry it off when done.. They'll rust.


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## Fleur (Apr 23, 2007)

mistergreen said:


> Hey, I'm not sure if you would even need those otos... Maybe 1 or 2. or none.
> 
> And a handy pair of scissors is what I use to prune my plants.. Just make sure to dry it off when done.. They'll rust.


*shrug* They were highly recommended, but the only fish store I know of that has otos is treating its tanks at the moment, so it'll be awhile anyway. I was thinking three because they're social, and I also figured there might be safety in numbers. And they're cheaper by threes. But as I said, it might be awhile, and if things stabilize before that, I won't worry about getting them.

I'll look into getting some scissors... I'll have to price them. What works for planting new plants or moving old ones? I don't like to stir up the mud if I can help it.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Remember, the store is making money off you so, you don't have to buy everything they tell you.. If your tank is overgrown with algae, then maybe get a few ottos. 5 gallons is pretty small and I'd just put one or 2 fish in there.

Yeah, moving plants around in a npt is a tough thing... I've learned to just leave them where they are are prune the plants the way I like. And when planting new plants, I just use my one hand... Hold the plant next to your fore-finger with your thumb. Then drill/dig through the substrate with your forefinger. Let go and the plant should be in the substrate.. No stiring, no mess.


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## Fleur (Apr 23, 2007)

The fella at the store recommend two or three otos but only because they're social fish. I wouldn't want to just get one. First, I feel like it would be too easy for Jerry to bully him (if that's going to be a problem), and second, I'm not going to but ONE of a social breed of fish. It's just not my style. They have a sale price if you buy three, so that's why I figured on three. I most likely won't be buying them myself, but two is probably plenty. I do want to set up --and cycle-- QT tank first so as not to risk introducing something, so it'll be a little while.

I'll remember your planting tip to be sure. Sounds like you have it down to a fine science. Thanks so much for the advice.


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## Nevermore (Mar 26, 2007)

It's a good idea to get stainless steel scissors because it's hard to dry the scissors at the joint and it'll eventually rust. You can get stainless steel scissors off ebay for not very much. I like these doublebent scissors from Widget Supply, they're especially good for trimming ground cover. http://cgi.ebay.com/5-1-2-Double-Be...hZ002QQcategoryZ28171QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem.


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## Fleur (Apr 23, 2007)

No rust is good... I'm a fan of no rust. I might save up and try to get some of those. While I don't have ground cover, I do have plants that need trimming .


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