# Naming the different types of Echinodorus tenellus



## omega (Apr 1, 2004)

Ok, so we know that there's the regular Echinodorus tenellus that can get quite tall. And then there's the variant of that plant that stays pretty short and gets red that people have been calling E. tenellus 'Micro'.

I've been told that the plant that gets red is called E. tenellus var tenellus. This same person also gave me a few runners of another plant that is identical to the E. tenellus var tenellus except that it stays bright green. My benefactor says that it's called E. tenellus var parvulus and that NO, it is not the same plant as the Ranalisma rostrata. I would ask where my benefactor came up with this information but he/she is missing in action at the moment. 

In the mean time, would anyone be able to confirm or deny this? I thought that it's interesting so I thought I'd share.


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

I'm thinking that it might be Echinodorus tenellus 'broad leaf'. This is NOT the same as E. quadricostatus. I had this 'broad leaf' variety of tenellus maybe four years ago. It grows bigger than Ranalisma, but is smaller than 'micro' tenellus (the stuff that turns red). And yes, it stays green. Mine actually got too big for my 2.5-gallon nano tank, but hey - Glosso gets too big for such a small tank. When it was still rare, I sent a piece of it to HeyPK and he managed to keep it small. Maybe strong lighting is the trick. Don't know if he still has it, but I recently wanted to ask him about it. Unfortunately, I'm almost maxed out on PM space :lol: . I'm a packrat, even with "virtual" mail...

-Naomi


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Hi, Naomi, 

I still have the broad leaf tenellus you sent me. I only have a few plants growing emersed and I have wanted to get it submersed again, but I don't have a tank to put them in now. I have several tanks infested with the eggs of an ostracod that eats plants. I don't want to put any ostracod-free plants in those tanks!! Once it gets its eggs in an aquarium, I have not found any way to kill them. Drying, strong acids, concentrated bleach, boric acid,---nothing kills them. If you wait for all of them to hatch, you had better wait for years!


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

Hi, Paul!

I apologize that this is off-topic... But I'll get back on-topic in a moment  .
I don't know how open you are to using meds, but here's one that I've toyed with the idea of using:
http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/dimilin.htm
I have no clue whether it would be effective on ostracods, and IF you have other crustaceans in your tank that you don't want to kill, you'll have to move them out and I probably wouldn't bother putting them back into the treated tank for at least a year after you stop treatment. It's supposed to be fairly innocuous to non-crustaceans since it works only to inhibit the regeneration of the chitin after molting. I don't know if it's on the market, though, and if not, you might have to do some searching.

Well, back to the topic (sort of)... I think you said that you sent a piece to Neil Frank. Were either of you able to get an actual scientific name (subspecies) for the "broad-leaf tenellus?" Maybe it is this E. tenellus var. parvulus that omega mentions. Lowcoaster has been selling it (E. tenellus 'broad leaf') on AquaBid fairly regularly for at least a year, now. I was wondering if it did indeed stay small while you had it submersed...? And how about compared to the 'micro'? I'm thinking of growing it again, but in the 20-long that I set up about two months ago. The HC has been getting outpaced by algae and I seem to remember that the broad-leaf tenellus was quite the fast-grower.

Anyway, sorry if I sort of hijacked the thread, omega. Paul, if you do end up trying the Dimilin, please let me know. For me, it's mostly just out of curiosity. I think the ostracods I have are of the harmless variety. Then again, maybe my recent episode with leeches just put my situation with the ostracods into perspective  .

-Naomi


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

Sorry to bring back an old topic, but I must make a correction...

A week ago, I received some E. tenellus 'broad leaf' that I won in an auction. In the past few days, I've noticed some of the leaves turning red. I was a little concerned that maybe I had gotten the wrong stuff. But this morning I asked the person who sent it to me if maybe the 'broad leaf' variety is known to turn red, and he said that when it's happy, it does (according to the literature he's read). 

I have a few pieces in each of three tanks - a 20-gallon w/65W PC, a 2.5-gallon low-nutrient nano w/8W Flo, and a 2.5-gallon high-nutrient nano w/8W Flo. It's only turning red in the 20. So I guess like the 'micro' variety, this 'broad leaf' one will also turn red under certain conditions. Looks like it's not the same as E. tenellus var. parvulus. 

Paul, did your 'broad leaf' ever turn red?

-Naomi


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## omega (Apr 1, 2004)

Back it up gnome. BACK. IT. UP. :mrgreen: Did I read that right, a broad leaf tenellus that turns red?  I have never even heard of such a thing. Do you have a photo of it by any chance?


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

I'll attempt to get a photo of mine later. I have to recharge the batteries in my digital camera.

Just so you know, it doesn't *actually* have broad leaves. I think this name comes from the emersed form of the plant, which has leaves that sort of have a similar shape to Lilaeopsis (only a little bit bigger). Here is Lowcoaster's photo of it, which shows the emersed leaves:
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?liveplantsr&1126233306

The submersed form looks almost exactly like E. tenellus 'micro' except that I think it ('broad leaf') is a little bit shorter.

I've never really attempted to grow out any 'micro' so I might be wrong.

-Naomi


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Here is an old picture of the two E. tenellus varieties. I lost the narrow-leaved variety, but still have a couple of plants of the broad-leaved variety. The latter is always green for me, but the former can produce reddish new leaves.


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

Oh! Oh! I remember that photo  ! You sent it to me like eons ago (4+ years?)... Now it's coming back to me. So I guess the submersed form of the 'broad leaf' *is* actually broader than the 'micro.' Now I'm wondering again if I do actually have E. tenellus 'broad leaf.' It's definitely turning red and from what I can tell, the leaves are growing out more like the 'narrow.' I think I'll have to wait and see what the daughter plants end up looking like. I *know* the emersed form that I received looked nothing like the emersed form of 'micro' so I just don't know...

I had a few pieces left over that I'd left floating in a container and I planted them in my 4-gallon last night. So now I have it growing in four different tanks. We'll see what comes of it.

Thanks for posting the photo, Paul  ! I guess I'd forgotten what it looks like...

-Naomi


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

My plants have taken a serious hit from five days of blackout and high temperatures thanks to Katrina. I lost quite a few species, including the narrow-leaved tenellus. Fortunately, that is an easy species to obtain again. 

Two of my aquaria are now infested with the plant-eating ostracod---the one that lays bomb-proof eggs. I have found no way to kill the eggs, yet, but have hopes that maybe acetone will kill them. I will do a test, soon. If it does, I could at least kill the infestation of the aquarium even though I would not be able to kill the eggs on the plants without killing the plants. There are other ways to get plants free of the eggs.


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