# [Wet Thumb Forum]-More alge than Plants



## something fishy (Aug 12, 2004)

Holy Cr*p,
I am getting rather frustrated at my enless array of algae that seems to prvail in my 20 gal long. I have DIY CO2, have 78watts of light @ 10 hours per day. Only adding a small amount of ferts ---> Plantex CSM+ B. 
heres the readings; pH=8, GH=19, KH=14, Fe=0.1, PO4=0ppm (is the Algae consuming it), NO3=10. no ammonia, no nitrites. I have noticed that my pH has been steadily rising and think it may be attributed to 2 pieces of "lava rock" that I added to the tank about 2 or more months ago.
I was adding K2SO4 and kno3 but stopped when I started to see some algae.
Now the only things added are the iron in the form of Flourish iron about 5 mls every other day and about the same of the Plantex CSM+B.
i backed off the other ferts thinking that it might help things, but I think its made things worse, is this possible?
Please help, I really just want to get this tank stable and growing well. At the moment I have hair/thread algae, and this real pale algae that is on the glass that you can see in the pics. 
Any suggestions?

thanks
-Adrian


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## something fishy (Aug 12, 2004)

Holy Cr*p,
I am getting rather frustrated at my enless array of algae that seems to prvail in my 20 gal long. I have DIY CO2, have 78watts of light @ 10 hours per day. Only adding a small amount of ferts ---> Plantex CSM+ B. 
heres the readings; pH=8, GH=19, KH=14, Fe=0.1, PO4=0ppm (is the Algae consuming it), NO3=10. no ammonia, no nitrites. I have noticed that my pH has been steadily rising and think it may be attributed to 2 pieces of "lava rock" that I added to the tank about 2 or more months ago.
I was adding K2SO4 and kno3 but stopped when I started to see some algae.
Now the only things added are the iron in the form of Flourish iron about 5 mls every other day and about the same of the Plantex CSM+B.
i backed off the other ferts thinking that it might help things, but I think its made things worse, is this possible?
Please help, I really just want to get this tank stable and growing well. At the moment I have hair/thread algae, and this real pale algae that is on the glass that you can see in the pics. 
Any suggestions?

thanks
-Adrian


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## something fishy (Aug 12, 2004)

heres another pic


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## something fishy (Aug 12, 2004)

one more, you can see in the highlighted area how bad the algae is.


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## imported_shalu (Feb 13, 2004)

KH=14, PH=8 => CO2 <4ppm, which is about the same as embient[3ppm), your DIY CO2 is not working. How are you dissolving CO2, do you have a CO2 reactor?


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## something fishy (Aug 12, 2004)

I have a home made power reactor which is identical to the "mini monster vortex reactor".
I can see about 1 bubble every 3 seconds or so going into the reactor.

-Adrian


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## goh (Jul 9, 2004)

There are 2 possible problems:
1. CO2 level as mentioned by shalu. Find a way to up the CO2 to at least 1bps or more to bring the PH to around 7.2. That should give you about 20ppm of CO2.
2. Dose PO4 (using KH2PO4) to 0.5-1.0ppm.

Remove at much algae by hand as possible.


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## imported_baj (Aug 5, 2004)

I am a bit confused about the Flourish Fe dosage, why do you dose 5ml every other day? I dont trust the Fe test kits too much. I used to have a bad case of spot algae on the glass and some fuzz on the gravel very close to the glass. I removed the glass algae by scrubbing, I subsequently cut back the Fe dosage to 1.6ml every 3 days (18g tall tank), nothing scientific just pulled a number out from you know where. The brownish-greenish fuzz was easiest to get rid of. I got some 3% hydrogen peroxide solution, filled a syring with 2ml and then squirted it on the algae. Everything fizzed like a soda bottle and within a couple of days no algae, the peroxide didnt harm anything else in the tank. That stuff is killer and algae seem to agree.
I dont want to be pretentious and throw advice at you, but you could try experimenting by cutting back on Fe and manually removing some algae, by hand and by squirting h2o2. I really think that the algae on the glass is due to fe, I had a very similar looking problem.


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## Troy McClure (Aug 3, 2005)

Defintely cut back on the iron dosing...maybe even cut it out completely. Plantex has iron in it, and I'm certain your plants have all the iron they could ever need stored up already. Cut the iron out completely and observe.


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Balance is your issue. To stay ahead of algae you need to provide light, CO2 and nutrients in a balance that is tuned for providing the healthiest plant growth.

You have almost 4 watts/gallon of light over a shallow tank, but little more CO2 then you would get from active aeration. At the same time your iron dose is out of site and your nitrate is higher than necessary. It's hard to say anything about your phosphate. The kit may or may not be right. At any rate, the plants need phosphate.

Is it possible that backing off the fertilizers could make things worse? Yes, it often does. How can you expect good healthy growth from your plants when you're starving them? If the plants aren't growing then the algae are.


Roger Miller


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## something fishy (Aug 12, 2004)

I am going to make up another batch of CO2, I hate the inaccuracy of DIY but I dont want to/cant convince the wife to let me buy a cylinder/regulator. I figure this brew must be getting weak. I will also purchase some KH2PO4 and add that, (I bought K2SO4 thinking that would give me my phosphate, I guess I was wrong?).
Got some things to try now, going to give it a go.
Thanks to you all for your help,

-Adrian


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## imported_baj (Aug 5, 2004)

Adrian, yes just k2so4 - potassium sulphate, does not have any phosphate(PO4) bound to it. I dont trust the phosphate kits too much either, to paraphrase from the instructions on a popular test kit and from other forum topics "in nature, phosphates are always in demand", from experience, please be very careful when you select the dosing for phosphates. I am a newbie to the hobby so I dont want to sound like something I am not, but I faced many algae problems initially and I know excess phosphates is not a good thing (of course, the truism "too much is too bad" holds for anything).


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## something fishy (Aug 12, 2004)

So how can you get an accurate reading of phosphates? Or do you just judge by how well your plants are doing?
I know I have been changing about 1/3 water every 4-5 days. Should my water changes be less? Its hard to get things on track because I guess every time you do a water change you upset the balance of things, to a point.
What is K2SO4 mainly used for then?
I know I have a lot of questions but I have a long way to go.

-Adrian


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## imported_BSS (Apr 14, 2004)

I have had good luck with my Red Sea PO4 kit, though I believe there are others with different stories. Without a kit, I would suggest adding a % of your target PO4 based on the amount of water you change. So, if you are targetting 1.0 ppm on PO4 and replace 30-40% of your water, add 0.3 to 0.4 ppm PO4. Then based on observing plant growth, you could up that amount.


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## imported_baj (Aug 5, 2004)

I have never dosed phosphates by themselves. I rely on the dead leaves and mulm to provide those. I always read 0.1ppm of PO4 every week, consant, I trust the value somewhat. I just go by the "phosphates always in demand" theory and dont worry about it. I am waiting for Rex for his opinion on this.
k2so4 is mainly for potassium (K). Not to hijack the thread but I've been meaning to ask what happens to the sulphate (so4), does it have an adverse effect on plants, by C gadd's calc to dose adequate amounts of k, I need a high dosage (i think the k in k2so4 is about 48%), so was wondering if the high so4 does anything drastic.


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## imported_shalu (Feb 13, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> I know I have been changing about 1/3 water every 4-5 days. Should my water changes be less? Its hard to get things on track because I guess every time you do a water change you upset the balance of things, to a point.-Adrian


If you know what is in your source water and what you need to dose back into the water, then changing water will not necessarily upset the tank balance. On the other hand, not changing enough water does not mean that the tank can reach balance, there can be buildup of nutrients/chemicals/organicWaste over time that will cause algae problem. I have a VERY high load discus tank, so I have to change 3x60% per week to keep the water quality up and NO3 low, but I dose back K/P/trace/iron after each water change. I have very little algae.


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## something fishy (Aug 12, 2004)

So do you think I should perform my tests for Fe, PO4, NO3, KH, GH etc on some tap water and see what the readings are, I guess that would be a good starting point? I had never thought of doing that, and so I guess I am "dosing into the unknown" to a point?

-Adrian


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## imported_shalu (Feb 13, 2004)

It is important to know what is in your water. Apart from doing your own testing, you can try to get a water company report if you use city water. But I think the number one issue for you is to solve CO2 problem. You really need to dissolve more CO2 with that much light, otherwise you will always get lots of algae. I would cut down on lights a bit before you solve the CO2 problem.


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