# Rams have fry (HELP)



## BrianK (Feb 11, 2006)

Well, I signed up for this forum but never got around to introducing myself. I have had fish in the past but last week started up my more serious entry into the hobby with a 20g planted tank. 

I have two clown loaches, two German Blue Rams, two Golden Wonders(well, one isn't the 'Wonder' variety) and five Bloodfin Tetras. My loaches got Ich right away so I am treating them with Rid-Ich. I know they can't all stay in here, eventually I will get a bigger tank, especially for the loaches.

I thought I had gotten two male Rams, and have been confused by their behavior. They have always hung around each other and have been digging in the substrate quite a bit lately. Thinking they were males I thought they were just looking for food but today they were staying in one pit for a long time, even while I was feeding the other fish. So I looked in their pit and, surprise, they were protecting their eggs!

These are little baby Rams too (or so I thought), 3-4 cm long. I am not sure what to do and I think I am going to lose the fry. I don't have another tank to put the other fish in, and I think it would be impossible to move the Rams and their fry. I don't know if the Ich medication is going to kill the fry or if the other fish are going to eat them.

If anyone has any advice, please, I would love to hear some!

Thanks in advance!

EDIT: Edited to fix fish name


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## BrianK (Feb 11, 2006)

Here are some pictures:


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## BrianK (Feb 11, 2006)

Outlook doesn't look too good. The Rams aren't doing a very good job of guarding the eggs and one of the Bloodfins keeps picking at the eggs.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Welcome to the board Brian.

Beautiful Rams! That's pretty good if they've already spawned for you, and in many cases their first few batches don't make it, so don't feel bad if you lose them. You're right, the Bloodfins are more than likely going to wipe the eggs out.

If you want to try again, I'd put them together in their own tank, and let nature take it's course. Even a 10 gallon would accomodate one pair, and it's so much easier for them to care for the fry without other tank mates to worry about.

If the fry you have do happen to defy the odds and make it, now would be a good time to get a batch of brine shrimp going for them to eat.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Oh, one other thought. If you could get a tank divider, you might try that to keep the other fish away from the Rams.


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## BrianK (Feb 11, 2006)

Thanks for the reply.

I was going to go to the lfs today to get some food for the fry and more hairgrass to hide the them but it's too late, the one Bloodfin ate all the eggs. The Rams didn't always guard the eggs and even let the Bloodfin in every once and a while and did nothing while he munched them down. I guess they will learn as they grow. Most of the time they were doing a pretty good job though; taking turns chasing away intruders and fanning the eggs, but it just wasn't enough.

I would like to breed them in the future, but when I have the extra money to move everyone else into a bigger tank and leave the Rams in the 20g (Just spent quite a bit getting this tank set up). That way when the babies grow up, they have a comfortable place to stay for a while.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

I recently went thru the same thing with my bolivans rams. They laid about 100 eggs and the parents were excellent but despite their efforts the cardinals and pencilfish picked off free swimmer. As mentioned you really have to setup them up in a separate tank if you want to have fry survive.


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## GillMan (Feb 22, 2005)

Think of it as a practice run. They'll get better at it with time. My young angels had been cleaning off leaves and chasing other fish away. They grow up so fast.....sniff......sniff.

My aquarium interests have never included breeding. If they do it, they do so at their own risk. It's nutritous. That's why I got several guppy and molly pairs.....food on the hoof!


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## BrianK (Feb 11, 2006)

Well, good news is I managed to keep the Ich from spreading. Bad news is that the Rams had gotten Ich before I was able to start treating. The spots showed up shortly after I started dosing Rid Ich. More bad news is that I just watched the female Ram die. Even more bad news is that my Loaches, who were always hiding in the driftwood, died in the driftwood and I have lost them as well as the driftwood that won't release their bodies.

I made a huge mistake by not quarantining the fish. I have learned my lesson and hopefully this has made me a better fish keeper. But it really ticks me off that I bought sick Loached from the LFS. I was back there the other day and saw one lone Loach, covered in Ich and emaciated in the tank that I had gotten my loaches from.

I really like Clown Loaches, but I think I will wait a while before I try them again. I really like Rams, so I will probably stick with those and get Clown Loaches when I get my bigger tank in the future.

My killifish are still alive and healthy without a spot of ich. They are also spending a lot of time together down in the plants and caves, brushing against each other and whatnot. They are two different types of the same fish, one is a Golden Wonder and the other is a not-so-golden Wonder (don't recall the name) so I don't know if they will actually breed, but I know the not-so-golden Wonder is female while the Golden is male.

My male Ram, while still Ichified, doesn't seem to be doing bad, except he is going to the surface for air (not due to lack of oxygen because the Killies are doing great). I hope he makes it. It's too bad his mate didn't. I feel bad :-/ Just got back from a good birthday dinner and then this :-(


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## BrianK (Feb 11, 2006)

Well apparently my tank conditions are good for lovin'. Now my Killifish are breeding. They have been playing around at the bottom of the tank and rubbing against each other a lot. The past couple of days they have been pushing against each other right next to the different tufts of hair grass. Apparently the female is laying eggs and the male is fertilizing them while pushing the female against the grass to push the eggs in there. I just took a look and see a couple little eggs in each little hair grass tuft.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Sorry you lost your female and the Clown's Brian.... Clowns don't take well to many ich meds, so you have to be really careful about what you use with them in the tank. 

Congrats though on your Killie's doing the spawning thing.


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