# Buying Fish at Walmart - Disgusting Mess



## awohld (Dec 11, 2005)

I was just went to Walmart and 75% of the fish were covered in Ick. There were 8 dead oscars and three alive. Two covered in ick and the other had its fins rotting off.

The fancy guppies were again all covered in ick and dead ones were every where. I got picture of this disgusting mess on my camera phone.

Other fish were starving to death and looked like living skeletons.

Every time I go there I check out the fish and most of them are either dead or in the process of dying. It's extremely disgusting.

Isn't this some kind of humane issue? Does anyone else see this at Walmart?


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## oceanaqua (Oct 24, 2005)

I see it all the time, the fish are cram into a 5-10 gallon tank and fill toss in tap water, fish floating on top, ich...The workers are not detaily train. I bought a plant there and they fill the whole bag with water like you would put a fish in, but this it was for a small potted crypt.


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## DaFishMan (Dec 4, 2005)

You have photo proof of the obvious neglect and your local news station or local SPCA may find that interesting. And yes, this is common in Canada too. Some places should just NOT be selling fish period. Most large chain fishstores you are lucky to find 4 knowledgeable people in it. What about a RETAIL OUTLET ? 

I'd say stay on the down low, take the time, get several more photos of different fish in different tanks over a duration of time, say a couple months.. Maybe there are other locations not far too etc... Then see above. Perhaps you can make a difference. Note when and where and date on the photos. Then do a little expose.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

I would think that the most reasonable thing to do, awohld, is to first talk to whoever is in charge of their tropical fish and suggest ways that they could take better care of their fish. They should be willing to listen, because they certainly can not be selling very many fish with their tanks looking like that! If they are not willing to change, then you might consider looking up the local SPCA or the State or City government. There may be animal abuse laws that are applicable.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Yeah, but fish aren't animals. They don't have fur, don't crawl into your lap, and don't have cute babies. Not many people will care enough to do anything. Personally, I'd talk to the store manager.


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## oceanaqua (Oct 24, 2005)

guaiac_boy said:


> Yeah, but fish aren't animals. They don't have fur, don't crawl into your lap, and don't have cute babies. Not many people will care enough to do anything. Personally, I'd talk to the store manager.


Fish ARE animals...they are a living creature like every human is(humans are animals too btw), they should have a chance to live life like they suppose too. But since fish are produce in massive numbers, with no predators, I guess you can say this is their "Natural Selection by Walmart".


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## Mnemia (Nov 23, 2004)

I believe I've read that animal welfare laws in many places do not apply to fish. The laws are mainly written with mammals in mind. Whether this is deserved or not, fish are simply not considered the same thing legally as mammals are. And the public (as opposed to serious hobbyists) has been conditioned to believe that it is "normal" for most fish to die soon after they are purchased.

Good luck changing Wal-Mart's practices. I doubt they really care too much what we think, since we aren't really their main customer base. Most of us probably would never buy fish from them anyway, and their customers are likely composed largely of people who don't know how to judge whether a fish is healthy or not.


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## gnatster (Mar 6, 2004)

Ebay prohibits the sale of animals, but you can sell fish, shrimp and corals as well as plants. May we should point out Walmarts practices to PETA.


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## Mnemia (Nov 23, 2004)

I just looked, and Virginia's animal welfare laws do indeed specifically exclude fish. They include every other vertebrate, but not fish. So basically it's 100% legal to treat fish however you please.


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## awohld (Dec 11, 2005)

Illinois animal welfare laws cover "Companion Pets", these include any animal that can be considered a pet. Also in Illinois you need a license to sell pets and they have to have adequate care and sanitary living conditions.

You think Walmart could afford a giant UV sterlizer for the ick.

I called our local Animal Welfare and they said they get complaints all the time about that store and everytime the get a complaint they call the Manager at Walmart and notify them of the conditions. I didn't want them to just call the manager again because it obviously isn't working. I asked to speak to the manager of the County Animal Welfare division and told her about it, she told me to call the officials that license Pet Shops. So I opened up a complaint and an animal welfare investigator is on their way out and the final report will be finished in two weeks. 

Also I forgot to mention that they had some Retropinnis Bichir there and they looked like skeletons with a head. They were obviously starving to death.

They were very interested to hear that some of the fish looked like they were "Skin & Bones." Not providing proper feeding (willful neglect) is a crime in Illinois and you get fined and have to talk to a shrink. It was interesting to see that with a lot of Animal Welfare law provisions, that if you break them and get caught, you have to get psychologically evaluated.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

You go Awohld... Looks like you took the right steps!

The Walmart's here don't treat their fish much better either. I think this is true for most of the Walmarts around the states.


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## Hawaiian (Aug 17, 2005)

Is It just Walmart that should be of concern? All petstores are neglegent in some way or form. Its a free for all unless you dont approve of the actions of one individual, hold all accountable. 

Walmart does use a UV srerilizer, As far as it being changed on a regular basis that I cant say. There is usually a knowledgable person in our area but not there often enough to make a difference. You go into a petstore whether it be a mom and pop to the large chains and you will find your average teenager in there with limited knowledge and experience and that is tolerated, isnt it? 


So hold all accountable. Have you asked at the Walmart if the fish were being treated? They may be trying, If you can help or make a suggestion to the person that may go a long way. Just my thoughts on this subject.

Ike


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

PETA is already on it....

Here are a couple of links that are related to the issue.

http://www.petlibrary.com/goldfish/walmart.htm

http://www.petitiononline.com/khaki/petition.html


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Gotta be just a little bit careful here. Its already hard enough to make a living owning a pet store. There needs to be a healthy balance between doing your best to keep fish in reasonable condition and having some regulatory agency freak out every time a bag full of fish goes belly up due to some problem in shipping. Probably most store owners are trying. Probably most employees (especialy at big chain stores) just lack the education they need to keep things healthy. Despite what sometimes goes on I'd guess that almost all of us wish there were more LFS's around.


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## Mnemia (Nov 23, 2004)

guaiac_boy said:


> Gotta be just a little bit careful here. Its already hard enough to make a living owning a pet store. There needs to be a healthy balance between doing your best to keep fish in reasonable condition and having some regulatory agency freak out every time a bag full of fish goes belly up due to some problem in shipping. Probably most store owners are trying. Probably most employees (especialy at big chain stores) just lack the education they need to keep things healthy. Despite what sometimes goes on I'd guess that almost all of us wish there were more LFS's around.


I agree...there is bound to be some level of fish death due to shipping stress and unavoidable/unforseeable problems like internal parasites in wild caught fish, etc. That much just has to be accepted as part of the business of dealing with fish. I'm not so sure that there should be the same level of regulation for fish as there is with other animals. In fact, the bar should probably be quite a bit lower.

That said, I don't think that most of the Wal-Mart stores ARE trying, at all. They should at least be making an effort to have their employees trained enough to prevent the worst of what goes on in their stores. Fish are not all that hard to take care of...you simply need proper equipment and to not overstock them, etc. If Wal-Mart is not willing to spend the money to do that, then they shouldn't sell them. I've been to some bad LFS stores, but by FAR the worst condition fish I've ever seen for sale have been in Wal-Marts, in more than one place. I think it's a systemic problem with their corporate not being willing to either get the equipment they need, or (most likely) having untrained employees. I'm no animal rights person, but ethically they should at least make enough of an effort to not have dozens of dead fish in each tank they have. Not to mention that I feel this attitude (and the fact that they are probably one of the biggest retailers for fish in the US) helps to undermine the hobby, since it says to beginners that it is normal for tanks to be filthy and uncleaned and for their fish to die all the time. This may be one of the reasons that saltwater fish still get "more respect" seemingly from the uninitiated...they may be thinking of Wal-Mart when they think of freshwater fish. And I'm sure they make it harder for good LFSes to stay in business, which leaves us with nothing but their crap.


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## soyadude (Dec 17, 2005)

I believe fish are often neglected because they can easily be so. They don't exactly bark or whimper when starved or etc.

I know one chain pet store here is particularly guilty of neglect/abuse of fish here in Malaysia and they used to have a pretty healthy fish section. I think they just forgot about the fish part of their store since they also sell dogs, cats and pet supplies. 

I wish they would hire someone that cares enough to care for their fishes instead of having them die by the dozen. 

One other store i've been to really overstocked their tanks and partitioned them into tiny cubes for so many fish... the current caused by the aeration/filtration in the cubes was just crazy. One tank of poor platies were swimming perpetually against being flung around the tank by the mad current. They were like running on an infinite treadmil and many dead ones lay in a corner at the bottom or were being flung around the tank.

Sometimes I wonder why these stores sell their fishes. They might as well be giving them away before they all die in their 'care'. Surely it's cheaper to train their employees or just buy a good reference book for them than replacing all those dead fish. 

Best LFSes i've been to are owner run stores and aquarist specialty chains. The rest should just quit the business.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

If you want to see something very interesting get a copy of a wholesale price sheet from the fish farms in Florida or SE Asia. I'm sure WalMart and other chain stores get their fish for even less $$ than this. Fish like danios and small tetras go for between 5 and 25 cents each when purchased in quantities of several 1000. "Expensive" fish like bosemanis, congos, specialty plecos etc go for about 50 cents up to a dollar. If a big store sells even half of what they bring in they still make plenty.

WalMart is the elephant in the living room when it comes to retail. The power of mass purchasing makes it hard for the better run, but less organized LFS. The WalMart around here actualy does an average job at it. They probably lucked out and got a knowledgeable fish manager. If the bulk of their stores are as horrible as it sounds then maybe something does need to be done. Any ideas what the "something" should be?


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## Mnemia (Nov 23, 2004)

Unfortunately, I'm not sure I know what CAN be done. If normal animal welfare regulations were applied then a lot of the LFSes might go out of business and the price of fish would go way up. I don't know how you could make some regulations that would prevent the worst abuses without hurting the people who are genuinely trying to do a good job, but don't always succeed. I doubt the regulations would be all that effective anyway because it's not like states have the manpower necessary to enforce something like that. There's just not going to be any political pressure to do anything either, especially against powerful companies like Wal-Mart.

Probably the best thing you can do to change their behavior is just don't buy fish from places like Wal-Mart that don't treat them well. And tell everyone else you know not to either, especially the beginners who don't know better. Refer them to any good LFSes you are aware of in your area. If you went public with it and documented the conditions with photographs, etc then you might be able to pressure them that way too.


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## soyadude (Dec 17, 2005)

It's kind of a double edged sword isn't it... if you don't buy walmart's fishes they'll just stock and kill them..  It's not likely they're selling many now anyway.

Best thing is educate people to pick out healthy well kept fish instead of ones suffering from obvious lack of care.


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## awohld (Dec 11, 2005)

I just checked back with the Department of Animal Welfare and they said that the state investigators went out there and found that the tanks were unclean and several tanks had fish with Ick.

The Investigators told the managers to clean it up and came back for a recheck several days later. On the follow up they found the tanks were clean and the fish with Ick were quarantined.

One simple phone call to the right people fixed the issue, at least for now.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Good job awohld.


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## Aquaspot (Jan 19, 2006)

Way to go! This kind of cruelty should not be tolerated. Especially in such a large chain of retail stores!


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

I also applaud your efforts and follow-through, Awohld!

The "average" condition of Wal-Mart tanks I've seen has been considerably less than the big-box (P-smart, P-co) stores, and an even farther cry from most of the nice LFS I frequent. But, that said, I've seen one LFS who's even worse than Wal-Mart (she mainly sells dog food and grooming services). 

The REAL difference is WHO is taking care of the fishtanks. I've actually seen my nearest Wal-Mart (one of the few in the area that even sells live fish) go through several cylcles of ups and downs. At one time, there was a full-timer who obviously was a "fish person". She knew her fish, and they began to get less run-of-the-mill type fish, and a nice assortment of plants. I picked up some Marsiela, a couple types of swords and giant hairgrass there, much to my surprise. I'm pretty sure she's left now, because the fish area has been abysmal the last few months. 

I agree - some training in just the basics could make a world of difference. But the reality is sadly different. One time I saw a guy who had obviously never handled a fish net before chasing some danios around. He laughed and took his 10 year old client up on the kid's offer to catch them himself. "I'm usually in automotive and hardware" he commented. This worker wasn't meaning to do any harm, but the lack of someone around who did know anything about fish was really telling. 

The most effective thing we can do is bring these situations to the awareness of the animal rights authorities when we see them. Awohld did absolutely the right thing. Kudos to you!

-Jane


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

i have seen an lfs that is pretty bad too, but wal-marts and petco take the cake for ****ty fish conditions.

interestingly the walmart near me used to sell fish until someone poured motor oil into the tanks and contaminated all the equipment.

perhaps it was someone tired of seeing terrible things happening in the tanks, and stopped it perminently with motor oil and a nice sign telling what happened.

it might sound drastic but i think they might have had the right idea given walmart's unwillingness to change...


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## [email protected] (Jul 18, 2005)

JanS said:


> PETA is already on it....
> 
> Here are a couple of links that are related to the issue.
> 
> ...


Thanx for that link, I have had a few bad experiences with dirty store conditions and one of the the stores was Wal-Mart  . I also rescued 5 bettas from a local Wal-Mart 4 female and 1 male they all had fungus, 2 had ick. But the thing that made matters worse was they were not even aware that you could not put male and female bettas together.


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## kivit (Aug 29, 2005)

Walmart doesn't seem to feed their fish.they may actually do it, but the water current is so strong the food is swept away. all the tanks cycle through the same water. they are connected behind the display. so 1 sick fish will infect all of the tanks. i don't believe they heat the water either, but i have no proof of this. however, the starving fish are obvious.


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## lifetapestry (Jan 5, 2006)

My "sources" tell me that the fish farms that supply the big chains reimburse the stores for every dead fish at retail price. That is, if fish farm sells the store 100 fish and the store sells 50 live ones but 50 die, the fish farm pays the store for the dead fish. 

What this means is that there is no incentive to spend time or money keeping the fish alive. If a dead fish doesn't cost you anything, why not let them all die?

I refuse to shop at those stores at all.

Karla


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

that's a heinous crime...


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## MoonFish (Feb 12, 2006)

I've seen food covering the floor of the tanks in unbelievable quantity. It really just depend on what store. They have a UV filter at my local store because it broke and you can't see the goldfish anymore. Sadly, I see a lot of pet stores that aren't any better. They might not feed as much but lots of dirty and empty tanks and no labels on anything.


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