# Primer, Paint & Fish Tanks



## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

I want to ask this question before I need to put primer up in my basement office and then paint. 

How do I protect my aquariums which are also in the basment? 

Is there a way to do it? 

I don't want to wipe out my aquariums with any fumes from primer or paint. 

Thank you ahead of time for your help with this question. 

Jimbo205


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Seal off the tanks, for example with duct tape and garbage bags. Make sure the bags are not touching anything hot (heater, light fixtures).
Run an air pump from a clean room (no paint) into the tanks. The minor leakiness of duct tape and garbage bags may allow some fumes in, but the extra bit of pressure from the air bubblers ought to keep out those fumes. 

If you think there is no safe place to get the air from, then put the air pump inside a box and cut a hole just big enough for an air mask cartridge from a breathing mask that will filter out the fumes. 

Set up ventilation in the rooms being painted that will remove the paint fumes from the area as fast as possible. 

Add Activated Carbon to the filters for a few days, while the painting is going on then swap it out for some fresh stuff. A couple of big water changes after the painting is done is a good idea, too.


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## NoSvOrAx (Nov 11, 2006)

I agree with everything but the duct tape. I've had bad experiences with residue.  I recommend masking tape.


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## aquariageek (May 27, 2006)

Jimbo-

I hope you are just as worried about the fumes _you_ will be breathing in. Wear a mask! ;-)


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Thank you for the suggestions. 

Luckily, I am not about to do this tonight or this week. I still have to spackle the sheet rock, etc. 

I have been working on this room in my spare time. 

I am striving to have this office well insulated and almost 'sealed' when I want to. I will look to see if I can find a couple of fans in my kids' rooms that will fit into the basement window to exhaust the air while painting and priming. (My kids love fans blowing on them while they sleep - go figure.)

Another option I thought of was to wait for a very warm day and open all the windows for cross ventilation. 

Do you all think it would be better to prime/paint a little at a time or try to do it all in one shot and get it done with?


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## Freshwater (Oct 22, 2007)

Hey Jimbo,

One of my many talents is that I have been a professional painter for many years. I have a couple quick questions for you. Most important is how are you applying the primer/paint to the walls and ceiling? Spraying or rolling? From what I read in your post I am assuming you will not be spraying.

Applying *water based* PVA/primer to new drywall with a roller will produce very little vapor in the air. Yes you will smell it, but no respirators are required or suggested for this. This is not the case if you are using *oil based* PVA/primer. And a respirator is highly recommended. Oil based and or Alkyd based paints are more or less solvent based, releasing nasty stuff into the air. High V.O.C.'s, and also "off-gas" for quite awhile after they appear dry (weeks).

Top coat, using a water based product will produce such a small amount of vapor as well. Most water based latex products are safe with no respiratory restrictions. If you are using a faux finish you will have to check the MSDS.

I would be much more concerned with the drywall dust getting into the tank than anything else.

If you are in fact spraying water based PVA/primer/top coat you will be atomizing the paint into the air creating a toxic environment. I would not recommend spraying in the same room as a fish tank...if you had to, I would seal of the tank in plastic, an air pump would be nice, but I would think a planted tank could survive a couple ours without air.

hope that helps.

Todd


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Diana K, NoSvOrAx, aquariageek and Freshwater; thank you, thank you, thank you. 

I am printing this thread out and will be reading this while shopping in either Wal*Mart or Home Depot soon. 

I am not spraying. I think I could do too much damage to non-sheet rock items in the room with that. I also think I would look pretty funny after trying that. 

I might try a roller if I have to, but still picture myself getting some paint on non-sheet rock items in my very cramped 'office'. 

I will probably use a paintbrush to do this and take my time with it, unless Todd advises that a roller is really the way to go. 

I have learned how to use firring strips, 2 inch thick pink foamboard, 1 1/2 or 1 inch foamboard, sheet rock, 4 foot straight edge level (forgot the proper name for it), hammer drill, my trusty regular drill, utility knife and plain old patience. Oh yeah, R30 fiberglass (unfaced) to fill in the joists and 6 mil 25 foot by 10 foot pvc or plastic sheeting. As you can tell, I DON'T like the cold. 

I did okay for a beginner but may be cursing myself on one or two spots as I try to spackle or mud the sheetrock. At one point where 2 sections of sheetrock meet they are not perfectly lined up. I am learning to appreciate that 4 ft straight level much more than before.

I have much more to go (again slowly) but I can't wait to clean out my accumulated 'stuff' and make room for aquariums, electrical lines, phone lines, ceiling lighting, etc. (when the time is right.)

Doing extra work at home on the phone will be so much nicer with some nice huge aquariums to give it a nice background glow. 

Now I just have to buy some spackle and water based paint. 

So, paint brush or roller. 

Which one again?


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## Freshwater (Oct 22, 2007)

Hey Jimbo,

Let's assume your walls are pretty standard at 8' tall, maybe less being in a basement... You also mentioned it's a small room...so maybe 10' long wall...you do not want to paint that with a brush...period. pick up a 9" roller and frame, 1/2" nap. You will need two naps. One for primer one for paint.

I would recommend a 5 gallon bucket and a 5 gallon grid as well, but the little throw away paint pans will work. They just take a little longer. Most all roller frames have a threaded female hole on the bottom. an old threaded broom handle will help you make short work of your project. Apply all the primer in one shot...and all the top coat in one shot.

Good luck, before and after pic's would be great too.

Todd


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

If you haven't used a roller before, don't do what I did. I decided it was fast and fun, so I pushed that roller back and forth as fast as I could. The result was a fine spray of paint off the roller all over me and the floor. Being a fast learner, I have since used rollers nice and slow. They go fast enough without trying to go fast. And, do short strokes, not floor to ceiling with one push.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

freshwater and hoppycalif, thank you. 

Roller, used slowly will be done. 

Last night I was reading one of my 2 duplicate Home Depot books on .... compound. Why do I always forget the name! Mud, spackle, that stuff! The book is so good when I misplaced it in my house (found next to the family computer on a bookshelf 6 months later), I bought the exact same book. What a great book!

My 2nd boy (10 years now) voluntarily (kind of) went with me to Lowe's to pick up a christmas decoration storage box for Mom, and stuff for Dad. I am terrible. I love to look at everything (almost) in the store and my kids know that (come ON Dad!!). We picked up a bucket of .... compound and other fun supplies. When I am ready, the book says 3 layers, 3 spackle 'knives' and 3 days to dry. One day in between each to dry. Smooth with sponge prefered. 

I will print out this thread again to keep notes. 

For photographs, I have 2 separate cards with 1GB each that I still have to download on the home computer so I can delete the cards afterwards. The room is small and I think I 'might' take a photograph when all done. Right now it is not what I would call 'presentable'. 

I was thinking about Primer and Paint and the idea of adding pigment to the Primer to match the paint. Honestly I like the shock white look of Prime because it is in a basement and I want to maximize what window light and other light I have. 

Thoughts on color of paint?


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Paint color: As light as possible, and semi gloss or gloss for some water resistance. If you like stark white, that is OK. Perhaps a pale blue on the ceiling.

It sounds like you are really sealing in this room. Will you be running a dehumidifier? Some other way of removing the water? Remember that aquariums evaporate, and that much water in an unventilated room will lead to mold. 

On the joint and topping compound, ('mud') thin applications will dry with less cracking.
I usually get the multi-purpose stuff, and the first application is joint and taping, and nail holes, then run a heater and fan to dry it. It is sometimes gets a little thick in between the sheets. Cracking is not an issue, but it needs to be dry before the next coat. The next application finishes all the holes from nails, and a thin coat over about 90% of the sheetrock. The third coat is the decorative one, gets some texture going. Then sand and touch up the texture. The dust is very bad. 

The more water resistant stuff made for bathrooms is almost impossible to sand. If you are using this get it right while it is still wet.

Good point about the sticky duct tape not coming off well. Masking tape does come off better, as long as it is removed promptly.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Sealing it off from any OUTSIDE air, trying my darndest. From the inside of the house, no. 
I have 1 doorway which may or may not be closed most of the time. The 2nd doorway is yet to be built, maybe with plexiglass. I want the kids to be able to see the tanks and come in when they want while keeping the video game noise reasonable. Probably will be kept ajar at times.

The foundation wall which I am insulating and sheetrocking is one thing. The pre-existing sheetrock wall is another. It is there and useful as a divider from the kids' area but definitely NOT sealed off. The joists over this interior sheetrock wall provide plenty of airflow if I need to open them easily (blocked off temporarily for now). The exterior sheetrock is 72-74" tall. The foundation wall has a 'lip' that goes up 2" off the floor and about 2-4" out. The interior wall I believe is somewhere between 72-76" before the joist which is 8' wide by 4-6" taller. Pretty good for airflow I think.

Because of the cold of the northeast, I prefer all my aquariums to have glass tops to reduce heat loss and evaporation. Again because of the cold of the northeast, I am insulating the foundation exterior walls. I am hoping for a nice balance. I am daily checking the max and min interior and exterior temperature and humidity in this 'room'. So far 30-50% humidity with an average about 40% with no tanks currently in there. Temp averages 55-65 with an average 20 degree difference from outside.

I do have a dehumidifier for the basement that is centrally located. Used in summertime. Unnecessary in winter.

My wife has mentioned the humidity in the basement before which is why I have been trying to monitor it much more closely in the last 2 years. I try to keep it below 55-60%. The interesting part is that the dehumidifier increases the temperature by about 10 degrees. It will be interesting to find out if that may be helpful with both the temperature AND the heat in that room in the end.

I am hoping to use all sponge to smooth the JOINT (that's it!) compound when dry. The comments about the dust I have heard from many people and plan to keep that constantly in mind. Thank you.

I may start with the Joint Compound on New Year's Day. I have the day off from work. :smile:
And I saw this flooring system for basements that raises 1/4 inch. Supposed to make a basement floor 6 degrees warmer. Took room measurements. Thinking about it. Will probably do waay after the electrical and the ceiling tiles. It was nice to find out that ceiling tiles work nicely with electrical cables and lights. :smile: I will be calling Jeff to look at my electrical again soon.

One step at a time. :smile: And this is what I do for fun between working 7 days a week. 
(Soon to be 6 days a week soon. Woo hoo!!)

Thank you for the great encouragement and suggestions. They have all been greatly appreciated.

Maybe I will post photos.


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## Freshwater (Oct 22, 2007)

Hey Jimbo,

I can't say anything that Diana did not. She is right on. 

Dry wall dust is a pain, but manageable. When "sanding" with a wet sponge (*I do often) I like to use the grouting sponges I get from Home depot/Lowe's etc. The are rectangular, nice and firm and one side has stiff rubber which is normally used to push grout between tiles. This sponge works very well due to the fact that when you apply pressure when holding the firm rubber, the sponge is applying even pressure on the wall. 

I can float mud fairly well, and if I was going for a smooth or "slick wall" finish I would not be able to get the desired results using a damn sponge. On your final coat of mud you might just want to have some fun. Put a little texture on the wall...no too crazy. The big advantage to this is if there are any imperfections in the drywall and or wall studs, the slight texture will help hide these.

my .02

Todd


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

10-4.

I'll check the 'kit package' my son and I purchased the other night. I think it had one of those. 
I am reading and re-reading your answers a number of times. It's funny how you learn things from reading and Home Depot books, but nothing beats experience. I get almost all of that. I am hoping that when I am all done with the room, the walls won't even attract any attention. 

I just want a very comfortable room that I can work in and my fish can be warm and happy. 
Thank you both for the great help. 

Todd and Diane, I am glad to see that you are both starting to fill out your profiles. Todd, that is a great photo of you with that fish! Carpentry sounds really fun for a job. And Diana with your experience as a Landscape Designer with 20 tanks and 700 gallons - your job sounds like it relates to planted aquariums pretty well. 

When you both get a chance to fill out your profiles more and / or add links to your own projects / stuff; I'd love to see them. 

I also have plenty of ice cream to distribute when you both get some p3ts or creatures. 
John N. can help out with all of that. Welcome to APC, and thank you for all of the help!

Jimbo205


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## trag (Jan 9, 2008)

You might try adding Chemi-Pure to your filtration system. 

I suggest this, because there was an article in (I think) FAMA back in the late 70s or early 80s about a basement fish room in which a large jar of formaldehyde and preserved something-or-other broke. They had to evacuate the house because of the fumes.

When they were able to re-enter, all the fish in the basement were dead except for the aquarium which had chemi-pure in the filtration system.

Of course, it may work really well on formaldehyde and not on paint fumes.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

I may be able to post photos of this room sometime in the future. 

I really am going to love this room. 

I can't wait for the final test in the dead of winter.


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## Scouter (Mar 3, 2008)

I don't know what the difference is in price, but since you're concerned with fumes etc. I would look into the "green" paints that emit less fumes. They might be a better alternative to normal paints. Just my 2 cents.
Scouter


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## huntersponyfarm (Sep 25, 2008)

You could get the low VOC paints that don't have fumes. They are non-toxic and "green". Just an idea.


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## xtremefour (Sep 30, 2008)

Yes, this is an old tread but one of the "green" paints will work. I work for Sherwin Williams so I am partial to their paints. 

We sell a product that is called "Harmony" that is low VOC and very friendly to clients that have respitory problems. We also own Dutch Boy and from what I heard they have a new line of their own. From what I was told you can stick your face in the bucket and you will not smell any fumes.


Matt


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Things I learned with this room. 

Nothing beats seeing what a professional can do. They just know what they are doing. 

Second, if you are doing this yourself for the first time - it can take forever. Or at least feel like it. 

Third, taping and putting on mud, and then doing it again and again is a good idea. I thought I would be able to do that when I was all done painting. Not quite. 

Fourth, when Grim and El Exorcisto were helping me build my first ODNO light fixture on my 75 gallon tank, I learned from Grim what different lights can do. From this hobby, I have almost always been partial to 'Daylight' bulbs thinking that they were 'better' because they were theoretically more like natural sunlight. Grim told Charlie and myself a story about how he had bluish daylight from metal halides in his auto shop and the guys were constantly arguing or fighting. He switched to a different type of light and that stopped. Made me stop in my tracks and think about it, reminds me of Behavioural Psychology in College. His suggestion - the Red tagged CFL's at Home Depot may make family in the family room less grumpy. 

Building this room I almost bought every type of bulb they sell at Home Depot. Guy there watched me look over and over the selections trying to decide. 

In the end, pinkish lights relax people and make whites and creme colored rugs look beige and tan. Blue daylight bulbs make people edgy and creme colored rugs look a puke green. Weird. 

Fifth. If you have a buddy that has done this before, you can learn a lot more from doing than just trying to learn how to do it out of a book. 

Sixth. I am now hooked on reading DIY Fish Room Threads. I have not seen a ton of them, but I am hooked on finding them. 

For those of you that are handy and contractors, I am jealous. 

I looks so fun. 

Me, I am just glad it is almost 99.5% done. 

And no, I purposely did not completely seal it off. I left an open 'doorway' at the end of the back wall that vents to the rest of the basement. I plan on putting an acrylic 'door' that swings out when my contractor finishes putting the heating ducts back in.


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## huntersponyfarm (Sep 25, 2008)

I hope you share pics of the finished room.


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