# 21G Acrylic NPT



## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

I should preface this by saying I've probably been watching too many aquascapers on YouTube (shout out to MD Fish Tanks who does some cool "ecosystem" style aquariums that borrow ideas from Walstad and look beautiful). Experimenting with a lot of things in this one, hopefully it doesn't end poorly. I'm optimistic.

This is gonna be a long one...if you don't want to read my rambling feel free to just scroll through the pictures (they're kind of a TLDR).

After experimenting with NPTs on a smallish scale for 2 years or so, I decided to try something bigger. I've had a 21 gallon acrylic tank sitting around in the basement from my earlier (mostly disastrous) non-Walstad fishkeeping days. The upfront cost to setup a tank this large plus my lack of experience made me hesitant to set it up. But after running my current NPT successfully for over a year I decided to jump in and try something larger. Also I've been watching too many aquascapers on YouTube and was getting jealous of all their pretty tanks. (One more tank won't hurt right?)

*1. Build a stand*
I am paranoid about my furniture spontaneously collapsing under heavy fish tanks, so I decided to build a cabinet from scratch that would support the weight. Did I go overboard? Can the stand probably support the weight of my car? Yes and yes. But I'm confident in its ability to hold my tank. 

I followed this tutorial from King of DIY: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN4Y9AYuwcQ&t=970s

With the help of my dad (who is experienced with woodworking and has a wealth of tools available for me to borrow), this is the final product:








(Bonus points for spotting my "very scientific" method of soil mineralization in the background, i.e. soak and drain. And yes, I follow the NPT mantra of "any plant growth is good plant growth" for my yard as well as my tanks.)

*2. Impatiently order plants before the stand is finished*
The stand is still currently degassing from the stain/polyurethane. They were only like a week early, NBD. For this tank I used:
*Epiphytes*

Java Fern
Anubias Nana and Petite (from my existing tank)
*Stem Plants*

Bacopa Caroliniana
Hygrophila Pinnatifida
*Rooted Plants*

Red Tiger Lotus bulb
Echinodorus Miracle (medium sword plant w/ purple accents)
Echinodorus Amazonicus (btw did you know there is more than one type of sword plant known as an "Amazon Sword"? This is just one of them)
Echinodorus Gabrielii (medium sword plant that is very flat)
Cryptocoryne Undulatus (I hear it's very similar to Wendtii)
Cryptocoryne Parva
Dwarf Sagittaria Subulata
*Floating Plants*

Salvinia Minima (from my existing tank)
Dwarf Water Lettuce (from my existing tank)
*Terrestrial Plants*

Random pothos clipping laying around
Plants in their temporary holding cell:









*3. Hardscape*
Because I can't help making things difficult for myself, I wanted this tank to have a non-trivial hardscape. Further complicating things, I wanted the tank to slope up several inches in the back. I am intimately aware of the issues that can come with a deep substrate (my first NPT crashed because of it). So I took some precautions. 

I've read from others on the forum that tiles can be placed underneath substrate to raise the height. I've also learned that rocks and driftwood should lay on the bottom of the tank. Armed with this knowledge I purchased a bunch of plain white tiles from Home Depot ($2.50 for 16 4"x4" tiles) and stacked these about an inch high in the back. I also placed them under the rocks I was using to scape. Result:









This is where all the YouTube videos really got to my head. I somehow decided it would be a good idea to have a "beach" in the front of the tank. White sand with no plants growing that is separate from the surrounding dirt/gravel. To keep the sand from mixing I cut up some corrugated plastic (like what yard signs are made out of) and framed the area. Keeping them from mixing in the long run is probably hopeless, but thought I'd give it a try. 

I used some additional plastic to create some "retaining walls" so that the slope doesn't immediately all come to the front. Here's what it looked like as I started adding dirt (top down view):









*4. Adding Substrate*
For my substrate I used 0.5" - 1.5" of dirt, capped with the smallest layer of Flourite Black I could get away with, ~0.5". 

The dirt is a potting + garden bed soil. It listed multiple types of manure in the ingredients list which is slightly concerning, but it's what I had laying around. Again, experimenting. It's probably going to be very hot/give off a lot of ammonia for a bit. Hopefully I can keep it from becoming anaerobic.

To prepare it I started with the soak/drain method, but noticed I was losing a ton of volume of dirt this way (and I didn't have much extra dirt to start with). Ended up combining the soaked/drained dirt with about twice as much sifted dirt. Used this $5 wire basket from Target to sift it, it has 1/4" by 1/8" holes and did the trick nicely.









The sand for the "beach" is Stoney River aquarium sand. I used less than a 5lb bag.

Here's the tank after the substrate was added. Sorry for all the clutter in the background. But at least one of the pieces of clutter is my Ecology of the Planted Aquarium book, lol.









*5. PLANTING!!!!*
My favorite step! Besides maybe adding critters.

Tall plants in the back, small plants in the front. The epiphytes are still just floating around, I'm not sure how to attach them to the rocks yet. But I'm thinking the Java Ferns will be attached towards the bottom of the rock cave in the grooves on either side, and Anubias will be attached to the small rock in front. I might swap the position of the Echinodorus Miracle and Echinodorus Gabrielii (pinkish sword on left and flatish sword on right). Since the Bacopa is in the back right corner and there's a lot of dirt there, it would be good to get some more root action back there. Plus the heights work out better.

The Tiger Lotus bulb is in the back to the left of the Bacopa. I expect it will take off in a few weeks and give me some vigorous roots in the deep substrate as well.

The idea with the "beach" is to separate the two carpet plants, Cryptocoryne Parva and Dwarf Sag, from mixing too much. In my experience Dwarf Sag just overruns any other carpet plant because of its vigorous growth. Hopefully this gives Parva a chance to get established.

The random Pothos cutting from my other tank was thrown in the back here to help absorb some of the extra initial nutrients.









Still kinda a mess, but will clean up with a few water changes and some new growth. I'll attach the epiphytes next time I do a water change and I can superglue them.

Initial water parameters are 0.75ppm Ammonia, 4dGH, 4dKH. I added some Seachem alkaline buffer and two wonder shells to help with KH/GH.

(Interestingly, my initial GH is a lot higher than I normally see from my tap. Historically it's been closer to 0 or 1dGH. Either Portland is using the backup groundwater reservoirs right now (unlikely given the season) or something in the tank contributed to the higher GH reading. Perhaps dust from the rocks?)

Since the stand is still degassing, I'm not filling the tank all the way. Many of these plants have a slight arial advantage which can't hurt. It will stay like this for another week or so until it doesn't make me dizzy to be in the same room as the stand, then I'll move it and fill it all the way up. If parameters hold steady, my Rasbora Espei from my 6.5 gallon will be the first to move over (but not the last of this tank's inhabitants)!

Overall I'm very happy with how this has turned out so far! I'm really looking forward to seeing it grow in a bit and getting some colorful fish to add. More pics soon as the tank is cleaned up a bit and growth starts coming in!


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Wow, I don't envy you trying to lift that onto the new stand!
On a more serious note:


jatcar95 said:


> The dirt is a potting + garden bed soil. It listed multiple types of manure in the ingredients list which is slightly concerning, but it's what I had laying around. Again, experimenting. It's probably going to be very hot/give off a lot of ammonia for a bit.


I think you're spot on with using what's "been lying around" as a suitable choice. In another thread, @dwalstad made a bombshell contribution to my understanding of aquarium substrates. And, that is the fact that nitrification takes place inside bags of ordinary potting soil - _even as they are sitting on the shelf . _I really think using an old bag of soil has helped make the mineralization process a little easier (I'll bet your nitrates are off the chart, though.)

Just yesterday, I made it my business to stop by the local hardware store in order to pick up a bag of MG Cactus Plants and Citrus potting soil - just to have on hand and to start nitrifying on its own.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

johnwesley0 said:


> Wow, I don't envy you trying to lift that onto the new stand!


Yeahhhhh that's gonna be a pain. Will drain it all the way, and between two of us I think we can manage it. My main concern is tipping over the rocks...



johnwesley0 said:


> I really think using an old bag of soil has helped make the mineralization process a little easier (I'll bet your nitrates are off the chart, though.)


That's a good point, I didn't consider that. Maybe this soil has broken down a bit and so is not quite so hot now - it has been sitting open in the shed since last spring/summer. I should measure nitrates...I usually avoid nitrate and nitrite tests because the bottles have scary warnings and the process is more involved.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

Did a 100% water change, swapped the two sword plants I mentioned, and glued in the epiphytes (gorilla super glue gel is the winner here!). 









Already looks loads better!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Well-done!


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

A few days later and I’m still getting very high (1.0ppm) ammonia readings every day. When I go downstairs in the morning the tank water is tea colored from tannins/soil. 

All pretty normal at this point, I expect it to take another week or so to level out. It’s just a very stark change from my 6.5g tank. For that one I did soak and rinse for all the dirt, and mixed the dirt with some flourite black. I had slightly high ammonia (0.5ppm) on the second or third day, and then it went away completely by the end of the first week.

So if you’re looking to speed up the process at the cost of an extra day or two of soil preparation, it seems definitely worth it. I’m not in a rush though, and I’m using this opportunity to keep the water levels low for emergent growth, but next time I might do more rinsing beforehand.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

jatcar95 said:


> A few days later and I’m still getting very high (1.0ppm) ammonia readings every day. When I go downstairs in the morning the tank water is tea colored from tannins/soil.
> 
> All pretty normal at this point, I expect it to take another week or so to level out. It’s just a very stark change from my 6.5g tank. For that one I did soak and rinse for all the dirt, and mixed the dirt with some flourite black. I had slightly high ammonia (0.5ppm) on the second or third day, and then it went away completely by the end of the first week.
> 
> So if you’re looking to speed up the process at the cost of an extra day or two of soil preparation, it seems definitely worth it. I’m not in a rush though, and I’m using this opportunity to keep the water levels low for emergent growth, but next time I might do more rinsing beforehand.


Have you moved the tank yet? I'm pretty sure adding more water will reduce your ammonia parameter somewhat. That happened with me. All in all, you're right on schedule, IMHO.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

johnwesley0 said:


> Have you moved the tank yet? I'm pretty sure adding more water will reduce your ammonia parameter somewhat. That happened with me. All in all, you're right on schedule, IMHO.


Nope, not yet. The stand smells considerably better so I'll move it tonight or this weekend. And that's a good point, maybe I'll try filling it up more for a few days. Although I like giving the plants some emergent growth to boost their establishment.


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## Roscoe Richardson (Dec 27, 2021)

Ha…It seems like you’ve implemented all of the hacks I’ve read about in my many hours of scouring the interwebs for all the how to advice I could aquire. Thanks for taking the time to put it into a thread. I like the detail and will follow the results!


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

*Two Week Update*
I first added water to the tank on the 12th, about two weeks ago. Here's the progress so far:









Some notes:

Ammonia is still high. I've been testing every day and doing 50% water changes every couple days, and still getting 0.5ppm ammonia every time. It could be less, the color seems to be between 0.25 and 0.5 markings on the API kit. As you can see in the picture, tannins are still coloring the tank pretty darkly. Guess with this volume of soil it takes a while to establish.
I added ramshorn and Malaysian trumpet snails (MTS) to the tank about a week ago. Of course, some bladder snails miraculously materialized as well, as they do. They are the only fauna so far, besides some micro-critters starting to appear.
Plants are pretty stagnant thus far. I can see a teensy bit of new growth on the carpet plants (even the crypts, which surprised me as they are slow growers), but still slow going. I'm hoping to see some shoots from the dwarf sag and new leaves from the swords in the next two weeks.
The Hygrophila Pinnatifida and the crypts have melted quite a bit. I expected it for the crypts and the Hygrophila is putting out new growth on top, so not too worried.
Floating plants are the exception - the mini water lettuce is growing really nicely! Salvinia is still trying to adapt - it seems to take time for it to calibrate whenever I add it to a new tank.
There are now two pothos cuttings in the tank. We got a beautiful golden/orange pothos as a gift for someone...so I had to sneak a cutting for myself 
There is a bit of algae on the anubias petite. This was there when it was introduced, but has grown somewhat. I turned the lights down a tad - now I play the game of adjusting light levels till I reach the optimal plant/algae growth. In my experience it seems like anubias is especially susceptible to algae, maybe because of its slow growth. Have others found this to be the case as well?
I added my old internal filter/pump to circulate the water a bit. When it's off, I notice a "pool" of murky water form at the bottom of the tank (especially noticeable because of the slope and the white sand). For now it seemed better to keep the water moving a bit, in hopes of keeping some flow through the top layers of soil and maybe helping the dirt stabilize faster (if that's even a thing?).

One question:

Is 0.25 - 0.5ppm ammonia too much to add shrimp? The snails are doing great so far (lots of egg clusters laid as well) and I think shrimp would help clean up extra plant matter. But maybe I should wait another week...


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

It's tricky because I think your salvinia will help shield the tank from too much light once it gets going. I have no way of dimming my LED array but haven't had a huge algae prob due to the floater carpet, I think.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

johnwesley0 said:


> It's tricky because I think your salvinia will help shield the tank from too much light once it gets going. I have no way of dimming my LED array but haven't had a huge algae prob due to the floater carpet, I think.


True, and floating plants seem to really want a lot of light. I tend to try to keep their numbers low enough that they don't block too much light to the submerged plants, but if I'm being lazy and don't want to scoop a bunch of floaters out I will just up the light level.

I definitely recommend adjustable lights, makes fine tuning a breeze. I think you can get a dimmer for an existing LED light if it's not natively supported.


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## blackberry75 (Feb 6, 2021)

johnwesley0 said:


> It's tricky because I think your salvinia will help shield the tank from too much light once it gets going. I have no way of dimming my LED array but haven't had a huge algae prob due to the floater carpet, I think.


Have you tried the tape trick? Put black electrical tape over some of the diodes, you can put paper on the portion of tape that's over the diodes so you don't get sticky residue on them. It's a low tech trick that works in a pinch.

Sent from my EC211001 using Tapatalk


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

blackberry75 said:


> Have you tried the tape trick? Put black electrical tape over some of the diodes, you can put paper on the portion of tape that's over the diodes so you don't get sticky residue on them. It's a low tech trick that works in a pinch.
> 
> Sent from my EC211001 using Tapatalk


I think I'd need to see a vid to see how that works.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Why not reduce the water level as you did in the beginning? Those stem plants and the swordplant will thank you for the extra light. Fill the tank when everything settles down. 

Also I keep many more floating plants than what you show in your photo. Instead of dimming the light, let the floating plants cover 70-80% of the surface.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

dwalstad said:


> Why not reduce the water level as you did in the beginning? Those stem plants and the swordplant will thank you for the extra light. Fill the tank when everything settles down.
> 
> Also I keep many more floating plants than what you show in your photo. Instead of dimming the light, let the floating plants cover 70-80% of the surface.


I was hoping the larger water quantity would help dilute the ammonia faster. But yeah, I could reduce it. I’m somewhat worried it’s just prolonging the adjustment the plants go through when they’re submerged, but I guess it’s better to let them establish a bit first.

I am moving floating plants over from my smaller tank as they reproduce there. Added another handful of them today, I’d say the surface is ~50% covered now. Thanks for the tip though, I’ll keep adding them as I get more.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

Quick update:

Ammonia readings are at 0 now, but nitrite is through the roof. Even with a 90%+ water change it only brought it down from 2.0ppm to 0.5ppm, and it was back at 1.0ppm the next day. I believe it's from nitrite respiration in the soil. Any idea how long this phase lasts? Couple days/couple weeks?

Tannins are much much less prevalent now. Water is pretty much clear. Just a bit hazy from bacterial bloom. I removed the internal filter as I didn't feel like it was adding much benefit...although I go back and forth on it.

Got some red root floaters and Hydrocotyle Japan to add to the tank. Plants are not growing too much, but nothing is really melting either. Some new growth on basically all the plants, but no runners/etc from the sag. I'd say the surface is 75-80% covered w/ floaters at this point.

Lowered the water level as suggested. Hoping to add some fish this weekend, but will depend on nitrite coming down. It's interesting - I had no nitrite spike in either of my previous tanks. It must be to do with un-rinsed substrate. Despite many water changes and disturbances, the "beach" has remained pretty clear of debris. Happy with how it all looks so far!


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

Your sag looks very green and healthy. I can only imagine it will be a week or less before you start seeing runners. Did you sort them by size like that on purpose? I like the look.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

johnwesley0 said:


> Your sag looks very green and healthy. I can only imagine it will be a week or less before you start seeing runners. Did you sort them by size like that on purpose? I like the look.


Thanks! I hope so, some runners would be a nice sign. Do you mean sorted front to back, or left and right? The carpet plants on the right are cryptocoryne parva.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Looks good! Those stem plants look happy. I think reducing water level was a good move.

Nitrites will come down and source of problem probably is nitrates in the bagged soil. I am pleased to hear that you have alluded to nitrate respiration. Excellent! I addressed that in another thread just a moment ago.

Soil particles are negatively charged and they attract positive charged ions (Ca++, NH4++, K+, etc). And they repel negatively charged ions (anions) like nitrate (NO3-) and nitrite (NO2-). So your nitrite problem will disappear rather quickly as these anions diffuse out of the soil.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> Looks good! Those stem plants look happy. I think reducing water level was a good move.
> 
> Nitrites will come down and source of problem probably is nitrates in the bagged soil. I am pleased to hear that you have alluded to nitrate respiration. Excellent! I addressed that in another thread just a moment ago.
> 
> Soil particles are negatively charged and they attract positive charged ions (Ca++, NH4++, K+, etc). And they repel negatively charged ions (anions) like nitrate (NO3-) and nitrite (NO2-). So your nitrite problem will disappear rather quickly as these anions diffuse out of the soil.


How long do you think it takes for an unopened bag of potting soil to completely nitrify? I ask because I recently purchased a bag of MG potting soil for cactus with a view towards just letting it "age" until I need it in the future. Is that a practical step to take in conjunction with mineralizing?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I wouldn't bother with aging your bag of soil. 

First, nitrification requires oxygen, so except in soil at the top of bag, there won't be much nitrification. 
Second, nitrification removes ammonia but it adds nitrates to the soil. So now this aged soil contains nitrates and when you submerge it, you get nitrites (via nitrate respiration). 

I would just put the soil in the tank and be prepared to do water changes and a little tinkering until soil settles down. Mineralizing it via Michael's method is another option, but I prefer to mineralize the soil in the tank itself.

Glad to hear that you found potting soil for cactus. Let us know how it works. In _theory_, I think it would be ideal for aquariums. It would have calcium and hardwater nutrients designed for cactus growing in alkaline soil, yet because cactus are slow growers, it wouldn't contain a lot of nitrogen.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

johnwesley0 said:


> How long do you think it takes for an unopened bag of potting soil to completely nitrify? I ask because I recently purchased a bag of MG potting soil for cactus with a view towards just letting it "age" until I need it in the future. Is that a practical step to take in conjunction with mineralizing?


The soil I used was admittedly probably much hotter than cactus soil, but I had the bag open for months before using it. While I can't say it didn't have an effect (I've never used this soil fresh from the bag, so can't compare to anything) it definitely did not eliminate the "problems" associated with fresh submerged soil.

If you really want to speed up the process _after _the soil goes into the aquarium at the expense of time used _before_, then I recommend trying the soak and rinse method. Just be aware that you lose a good volume of soil this way in my experience, so have extra on hand.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

jatcar95 said:


> The soil I used was admittedly probably much hotter than cactus soil, but I had the bag open for months before using it. While I can't say it didn't have an effect (I've never used this soil fresh from the bag, so can't compare to anything) it definitely did not eliminate the "problems" associated with fresh submerged soil.


Perhaps not to a degree to be of any practical use, but it does explain the nitrite spike (which @dwalstad believes will resolve itself in a few days.) All in all, nitrate respiration seems to be a fairly benign process, no?


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

johnwesley0 said:


> Perhaps not to a degree to be of any practical use, but it does explain the nitrite spike (which @dwalstad believes will resolve itself in a few days.) All in all, nitrate respiration seems to be a fairly benign process, no?


True, extra nitrates from nitrification could have contributed. I wouldn't quite call it benign...nitrite is pretty toxic, especially at the levels I'm seeing. But hopefully it is short lived.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

*6 Week Update*

Water Parameters:

Ammonia and nitrite have been 0 since March 7th
GH Is 0 out of the tap, with about 4 small wonder shells I have raised it to 4gH
kH is around 3/4, pH is around 7.0
Plants:

Floating plants are growing very quickly! Had to take a bunch out today, have a nice mix of salvinia minima, mini water lettuce, and red root floaters.
Bacopa caroliniana is growing well! About half or two thirds of the way to the top. I'm interested to see how high it grows
New leaves on the Amazon swords, but still small. I can see some new roots spreading beneath the substrate on the edge of the tank
Dwarf sag is getting longer, but not spreading yet. Hopefully it takes off soon. I can also see some new roots through the side of the tank.
Hygrophila lost all its original leaves, the new ones are much smaller. But it's growing well.
Tiger lotus bulb has sprouted two teeny leaves!
Crypt undulatas is doing well, stopped melting and plenty of new leaves
Java fern and anubias all have new leaves
The fancy pink sword is just green now...I kinda suspected as much. It's not growing much either...hopefully it's just adjusting.
Crypt parva is melting considerably...some of it is melted down to the roots. But some also looks fine? Lol, I think it's gonna take literally like a year for this to make any kind of carpet.
Hydrocotyle old leaves all melted, slowly making some new ones. Not sure on where to place this one, I'm thinking threaded through the background plants to fill in the bottom of the tank.
Animals:

Introduced some blue tuxedo platies on March 10th after a few days of stable parameters, along with some red cherry shrimp (RCS)
Moved my Rasbora Espei over a few days after that when parameters stayed solid. They seem really happy, immediately started doing their upside-down mating ritual on the bacopa 
Yesterday (March 22) introduced some corydoras habrosus (SO CUTE). Parameters still look good.
Tempted to add something else in the next few weeks...maybe something small like clown killis...but want to give the tank some time to adjust to an already pretty moderate/high load.
Overall I'm really happy with it so far, but can't wait for the plants to grow out a bit! 
(Too early to start planning a rescape of my 6.5g tank? )


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

NICE work! You have a lovely assortment of plants, snails, shrimp, fish. Everything! 

I imagine that this tank would provide a great deal of pleasure.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

dwalstad said:


> NICE work! You have a lovely assortment of plants, snails, shrimp, fish. Everything!
> 
> I imagine that this tank would provide a great deal of pleasure.


Thank you! Yes, it's very fun to watch. Only problem is I work from home and it's in my office...so it makes a pleasant backdrop to zone out watching during meetings


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

Just wanted to share that my red root floaters are blooming! They have the cutest tiny little flowers all over!









I also added some Celestial Pearl Danios (CPDs), and my stocking is complete. Really hard to get a picture of these, they are so fast and constantly on the move! I wonder if they can detect the laser focus from the phone and dislike it?








I added my internal pump back in with some purigen to remove some of the tannins and things are looking a bit clearer (but cloudy because I neglected to rinse the purigen first). It's hard to tell though because the wall behind the tank is blueish-green and throws off the white balance in the camera...may put a black backing on the aquarium at some point.

ALSO the tiger lotus is really taking off in the back right area! And the dwarf sag and crypt parva has their first offshoots!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Tank looks good, but your pictures of the red floater blooming takes the prize in my book! 

Folks, take note of the solid green color in most of his floaters. They are happy-- getting enough iron. This is usually the case in new tanks like this one. Later on (few months down the road), soil will release less chelated iron into the water and floaters may start disintegrating.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

I've been supplementing both tanks with chelated iron. Probably not necessary for this tank as you say, but I have so much of the stuff I might as well use it. 

In my smaller tank I start running into iron issues immediately if I don't supplement. The floaters get pale and grow to only a fraction of the size, if they grow at all. I noticed it also helps keep my crypts looking a bit more red.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

The floaters in my porcelain bowl have definitely suffered since I removed the six danios. Another reason I put them back in again. I'll journal about it when I get a chance.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

jatcar95 said:


> I've been supplementing both tanks with chelated iron. Probably not necessary for this tank as you say, but I have so much of the stuff I might as well use it.
> 
> In my smaller tank I start running into iron issues immediately if I don't supplement. The floaters get pale and grow to only a fraction of the size, if they grow at all. I noticed it also helps keep my crypts looking a bit more red.


Thanks for feedback. Very helpful!


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

Baby platies! I woke up to find at least 4 babies hanging out in the floating plants today. This tank is already fairly highly stocked so I will have to see what to do about them...assuming they survive their parents. 








There are two in this shot:


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## justwood79 (Nov 7, 2021)

hey jatcar can i ask some questions? i just bought e.gabrielli and interested /planning to buy e.miracle , i have 16 gal tank still cant decide where should i put the gabrieli since there isn't much information about this echinodorus (also miracle) , where do you put the gabrieli? midground or foreground? i cant spot the gabrieli on your pic, i read they can only grow up to 20-30cm not sure its true or not 
for temporary i plant it behind the halanthium tennelum , thinking to put it in front of my crypt wendtii and crypt tropica but im worried it would grow taller than the crypt
also for e.miracle do they grow big as big as other sword like bleheri or amazon sword? planning to put it in centerpiece


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

justwood79 said:


> hey jatcar can i ask some questions? i just bought e.gabrielli and interested /planning to buy e.miracle , i have 16 gal tank still cant decide where should i put the gabrieli since there isn't much information about this echinodorus (also miracle) , where do you put the gabrieli? midground or foreground? i cant spot the gabrieli on your pic, i read they can only grow up to 20-30cm not sure its true or not
> for temporary i plant it behind the halanthium tennelum , thinking to put it in front of my crypt wendtii and crypt tropica but im worried it would grow taller than the crypt
> also for e.miracle do they grow big as big as other sword like bleheri or amazon sword? planning to put it in centerpiece
> View attachment 74990
> ...


Hey justwood, sorry I missed your message. I don't actually know much about these plants either but decided to try them. My Gabrielii is on the left side behind the dwarf sag. It is growing pretty flat and slowly. The dwarf sag is towering over it (and just about everything else in the tank, who knew it grew so high when given the space!). The Miracle has not really been growing well. It is a bit taller with rounded green leaves. The pink leaves all fell off, and the new ones are much smaller and don't grow as fast as my Amazons. Hope that helps!


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

*7 Month Update!*

Hey everyone! Been a while since I've done an update (or been on the forum - things get busy! I have a lot of catching up to do now) so thought I'd show how things are going.
Overall I've been pretty happy with this tank. Had some issues w/ livestock that I'll go into, but the plants have (mostly) been doing well.










































*Fauna:*

Shrimp are doing great and breeding a lot! Some shrimplets are visible in the pictures, esp. on the big rock in the middle. Happily surprised to see the voracious platies mostly leave them alone!
Platies are also doing great and breeding a lot! I have about three juveniles that have graduated to swimming with the adults, and some more fry here and there. I've read that heavily-bred lines of platies like these tuxedo ones can have some offspring with defects - I'm considering adding some fresh blood with a different variety to avoid this, but haven't run into issues so far. 
Rasboras, CPDs, and Cories were unfortunately reduced in number when I had a fungal outbreak in the tank. This was pretty sad as I lost quite a few fish, and I was unclear why it happened in the first place. Overstocked? Too few water changes? The parameters were all fine so this is a mystery to me. I treated with some anti-fungal meds which was pretty effective, but didn't save all of them.
While the Ramshorn snails are doing great, I can't get MTS to take hold in this tank. They breed fine in my other tanks but something about this one doesn't mix well with them. They always end up dead a couple of days after adding them. My only theory is the substrate is anaerobic in some places and the sulfates are poisonous to MTS - my previous tank with anaerobic issues also couldn't sustain a MTS population.
*Flora*

The Hygrophila Pinnatifida didn't make it, replaced it with some Amazon swords (different variety than the ones I already had)
Dwarf Sagg is prolific and needs to be trimmed back continuously
Tiger Lily throws out new leaves constantly - although has slowed down in recent weeks. Still trying to get it to grow compactly
Bacopa is pretty leggy but still growing ok. I keep letting the floaters get out of hand and it cuts down on the light the Bacopa gets quite substantially.
Echinodorus Miracle has only one specimen left barely clinging on, Echinodorus Gabrielii is also clinging on but being drowned in a sea of sagg
Crypts are doing well but growing extremely slowly
Java fern is growing VERY well and propagating a lot
Anubias is growing slowly but seems to be happy
Floaters are incredibly prolific and need to be constantly pulled out of the tank
The pothos cutting has gotten a lot larger!
I added a bubbler when I was doing medication and have left it in, but turned way down.

Overall it could use a bit of TLC but is otherwise a pretty neat tank! Not many issues with algae, and it hasn't needed any supplements (including iron) in a while.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

We started our rectangular tanks at about the same time, so I am in a state of complete admiration for what you have done (your tiger lily looks like mine.) Any thoughts on what you will do when your soil starts to run out of steam?


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

Thanks! It's been a journey so far, that's for sure. Always new challenges to take care of! 

My previous tank's soil lasted for >1 year and was still going strong. I ended tearing that tank down out of boredom and wanting to try something new. This tank uses much more "raw" soil, in that I just sifted the big pieces out instead of using the rinse+drain method like my old tank. There's also MUCH more soil - as deep as 1.5" in some spots (not counting gravel cap). So I don't expect it to run out any time soon 

If I do start getting deficiencies I'll probably add root tabs or the like. I suspect that by the time it gets truly low on resources I'll be ready to try a new scape.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

jatcar95 said:


> This tank uses much more "raw" soil, in that I just sifted the big pieces out instead of using the rinse+drain method like my old tank. There's also MUCH more soil - as deep as 1.5" in some spots (not counting gravel cap). So I don't expect it to run out any time soon


That's SO good to know.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Nice tank. It's very natural looking. Doesn't have that sterile "hospital look."
The floaters look healthy and I see a houseplant's roots dipping into the tank.


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