# Back to El natural



## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

Hello at all,
after several years of high tech tanks I would like to return to low tech!
I'm tired of prune, fertilize and measure!
The tank will be 100*40*40 cm and I want to use loam (clay from a field) and coarse sand (1/2 mm -building) and the bed will be 5 cm tall.
I would like to use only a very small pump close the ground and a simple heater only 12 hours (with light).
Light? I think 2 * 30 watt T8 cool white, or just a 28 watt *********** led bar (?)
I want to mantein a lot of stem plants, some bog plants (Saururus, Lobelia) and many platies!
what do you think? I want your suggestions!

Isaia


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

That is the model!
Bye bye!
Isaia


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## tantaMD (Dec 23, 2011)

go for it man! i think the substrate should be dominantly garden soil. u can add clay on the substrate mixture for iron and high CEC, but too much clay could cause iron toxicity. usually i mix soil and clay in 7:1 composition. by the way your tank is awesome.


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## D9Vin (May 12, 2011)

If I understand you right, you are wanting to use a natural soil that is high in clay? If that is the case, than I think it should work pretty well. I say jump right in! If it were me, I would go with the t8's, but I don't have a lot of faith in led's (yet). Plus t8's are easy to find in many different spectrums and pretty cheap.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Sounds like a good plan to me! With the t8s you might not have enough light to grow the bog plants you mention, but it's worth a try. You could always add another fixture later.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

Thank you very much for the answers...
realy I want to use loam that in Italy is the same that "Loam". I would like to use clay but I think that it does more problems with turbidity (less bacteria)!
I want to use or garden soil or clay!


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

http://www.outled.it/barra-led-14w-bianco-3500k_10235
i find that led bar 14 watt - 50 cm - 1100 lumen.
Are two of these too little?
Will be about 5500 lux...


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

goodbye peolple!


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

Hello I start to work!
I will follow the advice of Clemson University about soil media (Diana link):•Two parts peat, one part coarse sand. I use an inch of that medium (without any fertilizer because I have hard water) covered with less than an inch of sand. I have cosidered that loam will cause to much turbidity when I will make gardening! I also want to use a single fluorescent tube because the water level is only 13 inch!
Best regards
Isaia


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## Angie (Dec 4, 2005)

Can't wait to how this works out. Be sure to post some pictures.


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

Hi Angie!


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

How is that tank supported? It looks great, but it would scare me, LOL!


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

This is an hanging on aquarium.
It is described in this book.
Ciao


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

Hi,
do you think that I need to add calcium to the substrate with medium/ hard 
(12 - 20 dGH) water?


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

Hello people,
in my hard-water I have plenty of Calcium (70 ppm), but just 4 ppm of Magnesium and *only 0.6 ppm of K!*.
Do you think I will have problem?


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Have you put in your substrate yet? If not, sprinkle some source of potasium over the bottom of the tank before putting in the soil layer. Here in the USA we use muriate of potash, which is an old-fashioned potasium fertilizer, or the "salt replacer" sold in food stores for people on low sodium diets. The salt replacer is KCl and works well in aquariums. I don't know if these products are available in Italy.

The exact amount isn't important. Just dust the bottom glass with some of the powder, letting the glass show through over most of the surface.


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

Hi,
I just fill the tank with water! :wacko:I've got in my kitchen diet salt (KCl)! Can I put it in the water? O I wait for the symptoms of the plants? Thanks


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

I'd would wait to see if the plants develop any K defficencies. You can put the KCl directly in the water, but there are better sources of K if you are dosing the water.


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

I will wait. Thank Ciao


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

Ciao,
I start just with one cool white tube (1 wpg)... the plants start immediately to grow up and produce O2 bubble! But the red plants turn green and lost some leaf, I will put a second cool-white (2 wpg)...
The platies are happy!
I hope will go well!
In all literature available in Italy, I read that peat will cause problems after some months, because it will rot!


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

Hello,
my tank go very well, but now the water are turning brown...
I don't know if is better to change water or add carbon...


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

The tank looks good!

Either method will correct tanins in the water. I prefer water changes, they are less expensive and add at least some micronutrients that might be lost with carbon.


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

Hi I have made the same consideration!.... but I'm to lezy ahahah


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

I start with 1 wpg 12 hours /day, but I'm not satisfied. Now I use 2 wpg 5-4-5.
I use only cool white.


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

2 x t8 30 watt.


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

Hello,
now there are some green carpet algae and the plants grow slowly and yellowish!
GH 10
KH 6
pH 7,6
NO3 and PO4 0!
I have lost two cardinal fish: is pH to high?


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

pesciolino said:


> Hello,
> now there are some green carpet algae and the plants grow slowly and yellowish!
> GH 10
> KH 6
> ...


Hallo,
now I have several problems!
1) The fishes died; 
2) I have Milky water!
3) The new leaves are now green but the plants lost the old leaves: Is it because I've not nutrients?


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## JayBloke (Dec 28, 2012)

Sorry but I cant answer your questions as I am new to all this but,I was wondering if you could tell me what plants they are in your tank please.The tank looks great in the photos I am sorry to hear you are having issues with it.


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

Hallo,
my plants are:
ammania gracilis,
H. micrantemoides
H. zoosterifolia
Saururus
lobelia
Alternanthera "lilla"
H. corymbosa
L. sessiflora
R. rotundifolia
E. azurea
C. cornuta.


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## JayBloke (Dec 28, 2012)

Cheers for that Pesciolino much appreciated.

Shame as yet no one has answered your questions.


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## JayBloke (Dec 28, 2012)

Ive PMed Michael for you with a link to this thread to see if we can get you some answers.The guy has been most helpful to me with my problems.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Sorry to hear about this!

It is really hard to diagnose a tank that is a continent away. Are you able to measure ammonia? That might be the culprit.

Milky water can indicate a bacterial bloom. The bloom could be caused by dead fish or plants, or by over-feeding. It's possible for these things to quickly spiral out of control as the dead organic matter feeds the bacteria which deplete oxygen from the water.

I suggest a thorough tank cleaning, followed by a complete water change. Keep all dead plant leaves cleaned up, and repeat the water change if the milkiness comes back.

Once you get the milky water (bacteria) under control, concentrate on the health of the plants. Two T8s is pretty low light, so concentrate on plants that tolerate low to medium light. And be sure to include some fast growing stem plants to use up excess nutrients if they are present.

When you get the plants healthy again, then you can slowly start adding new fish. Start with really easy species, and only put a few in at a time.

This is so frustrating and puzzling since your tank looked great in the last photos. Please keep us up dated.


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## pesciolino (Aug 30, 2006)

Many thanks,
I think the bacterial bloom is caused by dead fish... and the bacteria have killed the fishes...
Now I use an UV lamp and I have changed some water...
I think the plants lost the old leaves because I've not nutrients... all 0!
I will change more water.. I will keep you up dated!

Isaia


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