# Maxing on micros...



## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

When you read through what folks recommend for micro dosing, it's almost like there's two camps out there. One camp that says you only need a little bit of micros and that over-doing it will bring on gda, and hair algae. Another camp seems to feel like one needs to add at least 1ml of micros AND 1ml of iron chelate per 10 gallons of water to get the most out of your plants , both health and color wise. 

So my question is more like a poll, in that I am curious what folks out there are adding and consider appropriate to their tanks in micros. Do you tie it into a relationship with low/med/high lighting, or do you keep it the same no matter lighting? Share your experiences and what you've learned.

Personally, I have had mixed results mixing up my micros. In one tank, adding more micros has been beneficial, in another, it has brought an incrrease in gda (both tanks similar lighting and same dosing otherwise). I am at a loss to explain this.

So, how do you dose the micros?...


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

I add double the amount of CSM+B that is called for in EI dosing in an attempt to bring out the reds in my plants. Sometimes I add triple. It doesn't really seem to make much difference with my tank. I might try some iron chelate next. For macros, if I add more than 1/2 the EI dose, I get more algae, mostly staghorn. I generally add about 1/4 of the EI dose. I have never had any GDA, just a little GSA, BBA, a tiny bit of hair algae and and a diminishing amount of staghorn. 

My tank is medium light. It is 29 gal w/ 2x55 W of light (but not the greatest reflectors). I use SMS substrate and run pressurized CO2. My water is super hard. gH=26, kH=15. Liquid rock like this makes things challenging.


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Kelley - how can you call a 29 gallon with 110 watts of light medium lit? I run a 50 gallon with a 120 watts of light and that would be medium lit at 2.4 wpg. I run my 29 gallon with 48watts of light which is 1.65wpg (low light), but 29 gallon at 110watts would be 3.79 wpg which is high light even if the reflectors aren't great.

As many people are point out high ligh is what causes the algea issues not the EI dosing. Reduce the light, reduces the need for ferts and the chance of having anything limited, and reduces the need for high levels of CO2 thus less algae.


Bert H. = I think whether to use high levels of micro or not depends upon your plants and your lighting. The Iron helps with bringing out the red in plants, and many tanks in the past with Middle or low lights only doses Micros and were very successful.


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## rs79 (Dec 7, 2004)

Keep in mind that low N will make plants go very red too.


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## BluesBoy (Jul 2, 2004)

Yes, it's a confusing subject&#8230;
I have been dosing about 0.1 ppm Micros (Micro+) one or twice a week for some years with moderate result. As I partly wrote in another thread, for about two months ago I changed the whole dosing regime. I decreased the macros (except K) and started to add 0.2 ppm micro every single day. I can measure exactly what I am dosing in the morning and after 10-12 hours the level is nearly zero in the water column. If I take a water sample from the substrate (under the gravel and just above the bottom glass) the Fe level is very high ( http://www.bluesboy.se/viewimage.php?id=671 ).

The tank is running very well now ( http://www.bluesboy.se/viewimage.php?id=676 ) since I changed the macro/micro relation and as long as the tank is running well and without algae I will continue to add this mount of micros.

I think less than 0.1 ppm micro is enough if you can guarantee the level is kept in the water column between two wc. Due to the processes in the substrate I think it's not the case for some of us (all?) and you will find a lot of differences of micro dosing.

If you get algae when dosing a lot of micros, I think it's due to a combination of low CO2 or high NO3/PO4.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I haven't seen any test results that support the contention that iron helps bring out the reds in plants. I have seen people stating that they have demonstrated that some plants get redder with stress, such as being short of nitrates. My experience is that plants that are naturally red or reddish will be that with normal good nutrient levels.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

teacherthomas said:


> As many people are point out high ligh is what causes the algea issues not the EI dosing. Reduce the light, reduces the need for ferts and the chance of having anything limited, and reduces the need for high levels of CO2 thus less algae.


 High light does not cause algae, there is no limit on light intensity we can use. What causes most algae is water conditions. As wrong fertilizers or wrong photoperiod or high fish load.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

hoppycalif said:


> I haven't seen any test results that support the contention that iron helps bring out the reds in plants. I have seen people stating that they have demonstrated that some plants get redder with stress, such as being short of nitrates. My experience is that plants that are naturally red or reddish will be that with normal good nutrient levels.


 True.
Many non-red plants grow red due to stress. The stress may be caused by low NO3 and also by trace element overdose, like iron, copper, etc. High levels are toxic stressing plants into growing red. Very high light does the same.


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Edward said:


> High light does not cause algae, there is no limit on light intensity we can use. What causes most algae is water conditions. As wrong fertilizers or wrong photoperiod or high fish load.


I do not mean HIGH LIGH = ALGAE, but what I was meaning is that the intensity of the light has to be proportional to the level of Co2 and the dosing of fertilizers so nothing is limiting. If you have a high intensity of light, the plants will grow quickly ofcourse and I agree there is almost no limit in the intensity we can use (though within reason I feel as after a point even water plants can not take too intense light without "burning"), but with an increase in light intensity will cause an increase in the demand of CO2 and ferts. If they are not provided correctly the plants will suffer, and when plants are suffering and growth is delayed yet high intensity of light is provided along with the right conditions, algae will kick in.

I believe many people have many issues with their tanks due to high light, leaving very little room for mistakes in dosing and co2. Tom Barr seems to show this too, that we can grow easier to manage tanks with more room to make mistakes before problems get out of hand when using low to mid level lighting providing we give a high level of CO2. If high light, when a problem occurs it is quick to get out of hand, as the same things which drive plant growth can also be used by algae if the conditions are right.


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Little and often is better I've found, no matter the set up. Plants seem to like stable water, better than algae. 

One can provide stability through heavy, regular dosing, lots of CO2 and big regular water changes i.e. EI, or the opposite - minimal dosing, non-CO2, minimal water changes. And everything in-between, PMDD, PPS-Pro, ADA system etc.

Do each method right and stick to it and you get good growth, little algae.


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## rs79 (Dec 7, 2004)

If you believe high nitrates/phosphates/iron causes algae you should test that theory. I used t believe it too, then tried messing around and found no alage.

Ammonia or nutrient deficiency cause algae. Although as long as no nutrient is lacking even some ammonia will get eaten by fast growing plants before the algae can get it.


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