# Tap water vs. RO



## marke14 (Mar 27, 2007)

Greetings!

I am moving along slowly on my new 75 gal. tank setup.

I finally bought a canister filter, a Rena XP-2:










I rigged it up so that the output goes into the tank's existing sprayline, which goes into an above-tank "overflow filter" (is that the correct term?):










So here's what I've got now:










I was planning to go El Natural with this; after buying some topsoil and attempting to de-mineralize it by soaking it in water overnight, and draining off the water, and refilling with water. After repeating this process a few times, I have come to the conclusion that it's going to be too much of a hassle to use topsoil and I am instead heading down to the LFS to pick up some Flourite.

My question is: Can I get away with using tapwater and water conditioner, or do I really have to suck it up and use LFS RO water?

I have a Python unit which I use on the tanks I currently have, and it's SO convenient to just drain and fill using the sink. No buckets, no pouring, very little mess. I can do frequent water changes and keep everything fairly well cleaned (except the algae - you caught me before my weekly regimen).

I am frankly an amateur here, although I have a couple smaller (20 and 10 gallon) planted tanks, with guppies and mollies. I have been using our local tap water with water conditioners for years now with very good results. However, the guy down at the LFS where I procured my canister filter tells me that in order to have a really well-planted tank, with the kinds of fish I am looking at (cardinal neons for starters), I am going to need a low Ph, in the range of 6.4 or so. Our tapwater is pretty high, around 7.6 - 7.8, which is fine for the livebearing guppies and mollies (and for my cheapo plants - don't ask which kinds as I don't know!  They ) Here's a couple of pics of the 20 and 10 gallons for reference (pardon the mess):

10 gal:










20 gal:


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Some people will swear to only using RO water (I'm sure that I'll be slammed here on this thread by at least two or three people), but find in completely uneccessary. I've always used my tap water, and have been able to lower the pH by filtering through peat moss. Plus, it is much cheaper. You can use aquasoil too.

RO water isn't going to really lower your pH appreciably. And your plants should do just fine around pH 7.0 anyways. Some plants need an acidic substrate (Rotala's), but most can do well at 7.0 or higher. If you run CO2, your pH will fall. But you don't need RO water to achieve that. He's trying to take advantage of you, in my opinion.


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## bristles (Mar 7, 2006)

I don't use RO water and our water is very hard here in Wis. my plants grow very well, although I do use pressurized Co2 & that really boosts the plants & keeps the algae in check. I thought I had to have an RO system at one time also, but in the weeks (OK months) it took to find a convenient place to set it up I noticed that my plants were doing great so why spend more $ if I didn't have to. This is just my experience, I have friends who swear by it.


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## freydo (Jan 7, 2006)

that's an awesome setup with the canister filter tubing and the existing canopy. good job! it looks really sleek without the spray in the tank.

i also agree that you don't need RO water. there are people who use it, because of the fish they want to keep and/or water in their area. but for the most part i would go with regular tap water, and water conditioner.


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## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

As others have already said it isn't a must have. RO has a time and place, and those who use it, use it for specific reasons.... Some fish, espically wild caught south american species must have very soft water to thrive, some plants like Eriocaulon sp. and Tonina sp. will only thrive under very soft water conditions.... and then there are the very few of us who have something in our tap water at to high of a concentration to grow plants very well, sodium comes to mind. And last but not least the control freaks  those who wish to be able to control exactly what goes into thier water and at what ratio it does.

All very good reasons for using RO water.... But unless you are planning on keeping wild caught stock, or picky plants.... You will be just fine using good old tap water


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

Just a thought, but if you were to get plain jane top soil, like jolly gardner, there is no need to demenralize. All i did was let it air out for about 3 days to eliminate a major ammonia spike, heavly planted it, with SoilMaster Select on the top. Tada, good to go.


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## pepperonihead (Nov 25, 2004)

*I used to use tap water*

I used to use good old tap water when I lived in Long Beach, But since I have lived in San Pedro my fish and plants did terrible in tap water. My fish were not active and their color was not too great. I switche to RO and it was like a miracle happened. My rainbows colors improved dramatically and my plants did quite a bit better. I can even keep Rams alive now!


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## marke14 (Mar 27, 2007)

Wow, I am amazed and surprised to hear so many people jump on the tapwater bandwagon! :mrgreen: 

pepperonihead, I live in coastal Torrance so I am close yet far from San Pedro's water source. In fact, my little corner of Torrance happens to be on its own tiny water supply (I found all this out by investigating the water districts looking for a job.).

So, as I've said, some people seem to swear by the RO - my little brother is among this crowd. He keeps discus and other semi-exotic breeds so perhaps that is why.

In terms of CO2, I have a little Hagen natural system in the 20 gallon - it works great and is easy as pie to set up/recharge (sugar, yeast, baking soda, water). I plan to use this in the new 75 gal., but probably I will need a 2- or 3-into-one system to account for the volume difference.

Thanks so much for the affirmation guys! I am going to open a journal post, I will cross reference to it here. 

Just finished filling with the Flourite and gravel! I am so excited, heck even my wife is excited!!


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

I will only use RO but I am not opposed to tap water per se. I'm just opposed to MY tap water.

Buy an RO unit. They're well worth the money. You get great tasting drinking water, the ability to breed ANY fish should you so choose, and the ability to know with certainty what is in your planted tank.

I love it, wouldn't go back!

Abundant Flow Water is a great place to buy an RO unit from. I recommend the ReefMaster series.


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## marke14 (Mar 27, 2007)

banderbe said:


> I will only use RO but I am not opposed to tap water per se. I'm just opposed to MY tap water.
> 
> Buy an RO unit. They're well worth the money. You get great tasting drinking water, the ability to breed ANY fish should you so choose, and the ability to know with certainty what is in your planted tank.
> 
> ...


Hmm - $130 for a 75 gallons per day unit? That's much less than the "thousands of $$" the LFS guy told me! I might have to go for one of those myself! 

And, FWIW, I think this kid was going on what others had told him, not trying to rip me off. It's like some people swear you have to use Sudafed, "because the generic isn't the same." Well, it's a common misconception - generic IS the same!

Edit: how does one set something like this up? IIRC, it's an under-the-kitchen-sink kind of deal, right? And presumably, water from the "reef series" is also safe for drinking, yes?


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

I dunno, man. I mean, yes, you do get good drinking water. But you also have to buy replacement membranes, filters, etc. 

Think twice.....this can be very expensive, and there are no certainties that it will work as well as you are thinking. Unless you are going to start breeding something very rare, you won't need it.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Filter Direct is also a decent manufacture of RO units.


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

donaldmboyer said:


> I dunno, man. I mean, yes, you do get good drinking water. But you also have to buy replacement membranes, filters, etc.
> 
> Think twice.....this can be very expensive, and there are no certainties that it will work as well as you are thinking. Unless you are going to start breeding something very rare, you won't need it.


Sure you'll spend about $120 a year on filter replacements. Ten bucks a month. I'd easily spend more than that on bottled water.

And, unless his tap water is harder than Lake Malawi, it is certain that it will work as well as he thinks. It's basic science. The Reef Master produces pure water with a TDS of 0.

As for breeding rare fish, I don't know what fish you're thinking of. Lots of fish common in the hobby will not breed without soft water. For people like me, then, an RO unit is required.

The luxury of being able to control my water parameters exactly, and to know what's in my water and have peace of mind is all worth it.

When you spend months battling an algae problem and are plagued by the worry that it's your tap water, and in my case it seems to have been, you'll see what I mean.

That said, I would at least try your tap water for growing plants and see how it goes.

As for the setup, I keep a 32 gallon rubbermaid trashcan in my utility closet that's plumbed to the RO unit which is plumbed to the house's cold water feed. I put a float valve inside so whenever I use some water it just makes more. This also let's me warm the water to 76 degrees in the trashcan so I can use it in the tank. An 800 GPH pump in the trashcan delivers the water for me via a hose when I turn it on.

Yes, it's work to get it set up but once it's done you never even think about it anymore.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Tapwater is probably ok for 90% of people who are tyring to keep planted tanks. As has been stated, I see a relative need for RO for the following reasons:

1) Keeping & breeding wild-caught soft-water fish species
2) Keeping sensitive plants. Very few plants _need_ soft water, but many do a little better with it.
3) Being able to experiement with varying water chemistries, which is part of the fun for some people
4) Your local tapwater is so horrible that plants and fish just won't grow. I'd guess less than 5% of the USA falls into this category.

If you don't fall in one of these categories, I'd go with regular tapwater. It's much easier, a bit cheaper, and requires less equipment. I have 2 tanks with tapwater (GH 12/ KH 8 ) and 1 tank that I use reconstituted RO on (GH 4 / KH 2). I keep many wild-caught South American tetras and some of the so-called "harder" plant species in the RO setup and it seems to work well. The other tanks do just fine too though.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

banderbe said:


> I will only use RO but I am not opposed to tap water per se. I'm just opposed to MY tap water..


This is my point of view too! But I agree with almost everyone else (especially the post above!) that you only need to buy one if your tap water isn't very good, you want to have total control over your water parameters, or you keep fish that need/prefer water different to your tap water.

I keep soft water fish, many of them wild or only a few generations removed from wild, I wouldn't put them in my Nitrate-laden hard tap water. I like to keep my fish in water that approximates that which they live in in nature.

But for most people keeping hardy, mainly captive-raised fish with OK tap water then it's fine!


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

Yikes......control freaks! 

I would say given his water parameters and pH, he doesn't absolutely have to have an RO unit. Unless his phosphates are high in his tapwater, he shouldn't have an algae problem. He didn't indicate that he was having an algae problem. For his needs, it would be cheaper just to get a five gallon jug, fill it with water, and let it sit for a few days. Filter through peat. Total cost per year: $40.

Unless, of course, he wants to control everything that goes in and out of the aquarium. But, how practical is that really for someone who works full time and has a family? Even if you are way into this hobby, how much time per day can you really afford to spend on it? It would be best if you found easy cost-effective solutions to problems that didn't require trying to figure out how much carbonate your substrate is leeching into your water, how to counter-act that, how to fertilize around that, and ask a rocket scientist what you need to do if you plan on leaving for vactation for a week and how that will effect your water parameters.

To those of you that have RO and like to control everything that goes in and out: I commend you! I am not saying that I am totally against RO units by any means! I don't want to upset anyone, and part of the rant comes from the fact that I am a tad ignorant re: RO units. I think for myself, and most avid hobbyists out there that they are unneccessary, as in this case. For others who need to have them due to poor water quality, I can understand that. I just don't want people to read threads like this and think: "Oh, I don't have an RO unit, so I'll go out and buy one because it sounds neat to have one." 

And unless this guy is a very strict fish breeder or raising Tonina, or a very incredibly serious aquascaper, he doesn't need RO units or UV sterilizers.

IN MY OPINION!


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## Tsquare (Feb 9, 2007)

I looked into a RO unit at a couple of places. All that I found said it takes 3 gal of tap water to make 1 gal of RO water. Been using tap water since 1959 with no fish problems including Discus. The LFS I go to uses the same tap water I do and it comes from an deep aquifer.
Gene


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

My RO unit wastes 0 litres of water.

That's because all the 'waste' water goes outside to my Koi pond where it goes straight into the filter. It's not much harder than my tap water and has all the chlorine etc. removed.

BTW I'm sure most RO units actually run at a 5:1 rejection ratio. So for every litre of product water 5 litres go to my pond!


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## cousinkenni (Jan 24, 2005)

Actually the waste:RO is usually in the 4-6:1 range to preserve the membrane life. Any lower than 4:1 and your usually shortening the life of the membrane. When you set up the system you should actually aim for a 4:1 ratio.

For all the environmentalists out there, if you really wanted to....you could run a 1:1 (waste:RO).......all you have to do is get a smaller flow restrictor for about $5. The only problem is that the membrane will not last nearly as long. You can entend the life of the membrane slightly by placing a flush valve on it and using it for about a minute after each use though. Just a thought.

KT


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