# New and no clue.. Please Help



## Gippetto (Apr 15, 2005)

I generally don't dive into something without knowing what I am doing but I got a 38 gallon tank for a gift. It came equipped with a twin tube F25T8 lamp that I am told is at least 6500 kelvin. (honestly.. I don't know what that means) I have put sand down with a red clay like substance that they sold to me for plant nutrients. I have not yet cycled my tank but was told to put some plants in first anyway. I put in on amazon sword and two other plants whose names escape me. (see photo link below) They are all dying on me.. I have no idea why. .nor do I know what to do. Now I'm afraid to do anything. I have a container of bio spira but it looks like I cannot move forward with fish until I figure this out..

HELP!!

my dead plants


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## Gippetto (Apr 15, 2005)

*oh.. btw*

These plants were healthy only 48 hours ago when I put them into the tank.. ](*,)


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

Most likely getting used to your tank or the store sold you bad plants. For a good planted tank you need a balance of ferts/co2/light.


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## clay (Jul 3, 2004)

here are some things i think you need to find out before we can help.

1. look on the bulbs of your light strip and find out how many watts they are. once you add them together, divide that number into the gallon size of your tank. that will tell you how many watts per gallon you are keeping.

2. figure out if you want a high light tank or low light. that will help us help you on plant selection and other supplies needed for your tank.

3. what kind of clay substrate are you using? flourite?

4. have you purchased any fertilizers at this point?

if you can answer these, we can get you possibly to the next stage. and remember, we all started somewhere, so keep you head up on this one!

clay


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Gippetto,

Get in there and take the plant weights off the plants and spread them out a bit. Try planting them in clumps of 2-3 stems instead of one big clump. This will allow them to get more light. However, you may be on the lower end of the light needs for these two plants. 

The one on the left is either a Cabomba species or Limnophila aquatica/sessiliflora. I can not tell from the pic. The right appears to be either Cardamine lyrata or a Hydrocotyle species. Check the plant finder (highlighted in yellow at the top of the page) for a better look at the names of the plants I gave you. Go to the genus section and select the name. You can do the same for your sword. It is an Echinodorus species of some sort. you should be able to find it in the pics.

All of your plants can be grown emersed (out of the water) and if you purchased them from a fish store that does not specialize in aquatic plants, it is a good bet that they are.

If they are emersed grown, you can expect some die off of the leaves. New growth should soon follow and may or may not look different from what you have now. 

Again, try spreading them out a bit more and take off the plant weights. Use a pair of forceps or even tweezers to plant them in the sand. It's ok to put a couple leaves under the sand. The sand will hold the stems down and a few leaves under the sand will help to anchor them until they grow some roots. 

Give them a little bit of time to acclimate and they may pull through. I would bet thought that the plant on the left, and maybe all of them, will need more light than what you have. 

The F25 on your light is the wattage (25 watts) and the T-8 is the size of the tube (1" diameter). Fluorescent lights are measured in eights of an inch, i.e. T-5 = 5/8", T-8 = 1' and T-12 = 1.5".

Your lighting is considered very low light for a planted tank. Most suggest 2 watts per gallon but I think you would be fine with another light like you already have on the tank. This should give you about 1.5 watts per gallon (WPG). If these plants do not make it for you, you may want to try some Anubias species or Java Ferns. These plants should do well in the lower light that you have.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

I just re-read your post and realized you have 50 watts of light. You will probably be just fine with your lighting, but may need to up it a bit. Sorry for the mis-read on my part.


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## Gippetto (Apr 15, 2005)

Hi, 
The fish place sold the light knowing it was for a planted tank.. they said it was adequate.. *sigh*.. I guess I can just replace the bulbs? 
I can't remember the name of the substrate.. Like I said, it was a gift and was set up for me. I just know it was red in color and had to be soaked before putting it underneath the sand. The fish store said it would last for years as a nutrient and I shouldn't have to use additional fertilizers. 

I have wanted this tank forever.. but admit to being unprepared when it arrived. There is so much to know. 

It seems that you all are saying that.. 

a. I need more light
b. Maybe I need additional nutrients for the plants

ugh.... just wait until I decide to add fish..


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Gippetto... You have a low light tank (50w/38g=1.31WPG). You don't need to up your light if you keep the appropriate plants for your light levels. The plants that you have in there now have higher light requirements. So I would suggest to either remove those plants that you have and replace with lower light plants or to up your wattage.

If you have a heavy planted tank with a variety of slow & fast growers you do not need to cycle your tank. The plants will remove the bad stuff that is associated with the cycling process, so you will not see the spikes that you see in a non-planted tank. So adding fish can be done within the first week of setup. I always start with algae eaters. I would suggest adding a lot more plants then you have now, as many as you can afford to buy at one time. 

You will still need to add ferts even though you have nutrient rich substrate. A good choice would be the line of Seachem ferts: Flourish, Trace & iron. Since you have a low light tank the amount of ferts you add will be small.


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## jimjim (Jan 25, 2004)

*dying plants*

Geppetto; Just as a thought did you remove the clorine/cloramines from your water. (You said you were a newby). Believe me it's easy to overlook the D#@%^& things sometimes evan when you supposedly know what you're doing...Jimjim


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## Gippetto (Apr 15, 2005)

Is this from chlorine? We have a well so I didn't think I would have any problems with additives or contaminants.. 

If not then.. no I didn't remove anything from the water..


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## Gippetto (Apr 15, 2005)

So, I went back to my fish place to see what they had to say. He said my lighting was fine? .. but was appalled that I was using sand as a substrate. He said that there was no way anything would ever grow in sand.. So, I had some bad advice somewhere.. 
I took the rest of the day, draining the tank and putting the gravel back in.. (dang!! I loved the sand.. 
For those of you who make it work with sand.. I guess it's out of my league.. I envy your tanks. 
Thanks for your help.. I'll hang out and read here. .. maybe post another stupid question or two.. Hopefully, I won't get discouraged enough to buy plastic.. 
Trying to be patient.. this is harder than I thought.


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## bharada (Apr 17, 2004)

Gippetto,
There's no reason why having a sand substrate would lead to failure. There are numerous members successfully using playsand in their planted tanks. Any inert substrate will take time to get 'seasoned'. The process can be sped up by seeding it with mulm from an established tank, or adding a dusting of ground peat to the bottom of the tank and covering it with the sand. However, the stem plants in your pic aren't particularly dependent on the substrate for anything more than anchoring themselves, getting the majority of their nutrients from the water.

As was mentioned by Trenac, you have a very low light tank so the stem plants that the store sold you are not well suited for your setup as it stands now (regardless of what the store owner tells you). You can either see about retrofitting an additional bulb (or two) into your hood, or opt for a different variety of plants like Cryptocoryne, Anubias, and Java Fern. The best defense against algae in a newly setup tank is an overabundance of plants, so get as many as you can to start.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

I totally agree with what Bharada says. I myself is getting ready to set up a planted tank with play sand from Lowe's. Although it does not have any nutrients for the roots like the planted substrates do you can compensate for it by using root tabs for your root feeders like Crypts and sword plants. Other plants use nutrients in the water column as will root feeders depending on the amount of nutrients in the water. 

You can and will get bad advice from people working in fish stores, depending on the store some of the help have no clue, they are just there to sale product. I'm not saying this is the case in your situation. I've even got bad advice from a LFS in my area that sales only fish, plants & equipment. When I have a question I depend on this forum for the right advice. I also educate myself so I will know what plants & fish etc. are appropriate for my setups. 

Don't give up... We all have had failures in the beginning and learn from those mistakes. This hobby is well worth it all, good or bad. ;-)


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