# high pH and KH: what is it effects of CO2 injection?



## jarthel (Dec 7, 2009)

I searching the net on the use of dolomite addition on substrate. I kinda like the idea of dolomite because most trace mix doesn't have calcium in it.

anyway, I was reading the wikipedia entry for dolomite and a local product description and it seems adding dolomite would increase pH, GH and KH? (not sure on KH but since dolomite is called carbonate rock in wikipedia I thought it could raise KH as well).

I was reading the CO2, pH and PH chart in the thekrib but I wasn't sure that higher pH and KH means for CO2 injection. 

please correct me if my understanding is wrong.  this could mean I need to inject more CO2 to bring the pH to 7?

thank you very much


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Why do you want to add dolomite to your substrate?


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## jarthel (Dec 7, 2009)

Bert H said:


> Why do you want to add dolomite to your substrate?


calcium


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Frankly, I don't know anything about dolomite in a planted tank. If all you want is calcium, have you looked into Seachem's Equilibrium? If your gh is very low, I still recommend a known product, Equilibrium is the first name that comes to mind, though there are others. 

If your kh is low 0-1, many folks have successful planted tanks with these numbers. With low kh you'll actually be able to grow more plants than with high kh's.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

What is the GH and KH of the water you will be using in the tank?


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

The trouble with dolomite and similar dissolving substrates is that one doesn't have control over how much hardness gets added to the water.

Equilibrium or Barr's GH Booster let you control how hard the water gets. They also add some other needed nutrients.

Bill


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## geeks_15 (Dec 9, 2006)

It seems to me that adding dolomite would only cause headaches. You can grow many plants in very soft water. Tap water in most instances is sufficient.


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

My Kh is 4 , Gh is 8 and Ph 7.0 to 7.2. Is this OK ?


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

KH is 4- Great!
GH is 8- A little high for the soft water fish that might be wild caught, but great for most community fish and practically all the plants we grow, absolutely DO NOT add dolomite to a tank with this water. GH is the measure of Ca and Mg, and this reading suggests that the water probably is fine for these minerals. (Unless this water has already been altered by adding magnesium but not calcium. ie: Epsom salt)
pH 7.0 to 7.2- perfect for just about all the community fish and plants.


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Diana K said:


> KH is 4- Great!
> GH is 8- A little high for the soft water fish that might be wild caught, but great for most community fish and practically all the plants we grow, absolutely DO NOT add dolomite to a tank with this water. GH is the measure of Ca and Mg, and this reading suggests that the water probably is fine for these minerals. (Unless this water has already been altered by adding magnesium but not calcium. ie: Epsom salt)
> pH 7.0 to 7.2- perfect for just about all the community fish and plants.


I dose EI and I do add 1/2 tsp of Epsom 3x/wk. Thanks for your help Diana K.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

The Epsom salt is adding magnesium. Are you adding any calcium? Plants and fish need calcium, too. The general recommendation is Ca:Mg ratio of 4:1. Constantly adding Epsom salt without adding calcium would only be good if there was already a good source of Ca in the system. 

Test the tap water for GH, and if it is not lower than about 3-5 degrees, I would stop the Epsom salt. If the GH is 3 or less, I would add a more balanced source of Ca and Mg.


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Diana K said:


> The Epsom salt is adding magnesium. Are you adding any calcium? Plants and fish need calcium, too. The general recommendation is Ca:Mg ratio of 4:1. Constantly adding Epsom salt without adding calcium would only be good if there was already a good source of Ca in the system.
> 
> Test the tap water for GH, and if it is not lower than about 3-5 degrees, I would stop the Epsom salt. If the GH is 3 or less, I would add a more balanced source of Ca and Mg.


I am adding the Ultimate GH booster once a week after wc. My tap water Gh is 5. What do I do now? Add the gh booster as before or get some Seachem Equilibrium .


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

If your tap water gh is 5, you probably do not need to add any GH booster. Get a reading from your water company for analysis. Ideally, Ca:Mg ratio should be about 4:1. Unless your balanced is way skewed in one direction or another, leave your water alone, as far as kh and gh. It's nearly perfect.


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Bert H said:


> If your tap water gh is 5, you probably do not need to add any GH booster. Get a reading from your water company for analysis. Ideally, Ca:Mg ratio should be about 4:1. Unless your balanced is way skewed in one direction or another, leave your water alone, as far as kh and gh. It's nearly perfect.


Will do. Thank you Bert H.


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

This is the report of my tap water but, I don't have a clue what this report means. There are 3 systems that supply NYC, I get water from the Catskill/Delaware system. Any chemists out there?
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/pdf/wsstat01b.pdf


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

From your link: Your water is very soft, with GH =1 grain per gallon equivalent CaCO3. I looked up Grain per Gallon CaCo3 and found out that it = 14.3 ppm, or less than 1 degree of hardness. 

This is so soft that you will need to supplement the GH with a product that offers your fish and plants Calcium and Magnesium. I use Equilibrium, but there are other products out there. Do not use just Epsom salt to make the test come out right. This is not about making the GH test come out right, but is about adding the proper minerals the plants need. 

Aim for the Ca:Mg ratio to be 4:1. If it is a little higher or lower, no big deal, but not too far off this is best.


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Diana K said:


> From your link: Your water is very soft, with GH =1 grain per gallon equivalent CaCO3. I looked up Grain per Gallon CaCo3 and found out that it = 14.3 ppm, or less than 1 degree of hardness.
> 
> This is so soft that you will need to supplement the GH with a product that offers your fish and plants Calcium and Magnesium. I use Equilibrium, but there are other products out there. Do not use just Epsom salt to make the test come out right. This is not about making the GH test come out right, but is about adding the proper minerals the plants need.
> 
> Aim for the Ca:Mg ratio to be 4:1. If it is a little higher or lower, no big deal, but not too far off this is best.


Thank you Diana. Right now I use the ultimate gh booster from Green Leaf but, I can get the Seachem Equilibrium if that is better. Do you think Equilibrium is better?


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Diana K said:


> From your link: Your water is very soft, with GH =1 grain per gallon equivalent CaCO3. I looked up Grain per Gallon CaCo3 and found out that it = 14.3 ppm, or less than 1 degree of hardness.


I just tested my tap water again and Gh is 5. Can the report be wrong or outdated? Darn, this is weird and confusing. I do know that NYC water is soft. Any problem if I use the Gh booster or the Equilibrium just to make sure I get Ca and Magnesium?


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

This is what I found in the 2008 report:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/pdf/wsstate08.pdf

Alkalinity (mg/L CaCO3)- 12.9 average

Calcium (mg/L)- 5.6 average

Hardness (mg/L CaCO3)- 19 average

Hardness (grains/gallon[US]CaCO3)(6)- 1.1 average

Magnesium (mg/L)- 1.2

pH (pH units)- 7.2

Potassium (mg/L)- 0.6

Sodium (mg/L)- 9

Sulfate (mg/L)- 5.0

I am using API gh test kit and it shows me a gh of 5.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

_Adding my comments in italics_
This is what I found in the 2008 report:
_mg/l is the same as ppm, and there are 17.9 ppm in 1 German degree of hardness._
Alkalinity (mg/L CaCO3)- 12.9 average _This is so little carbonate that the pH will be able to vary a LOT. Test this with your KH test kit._

Calcium (mg/L)- 5.6 average _Very low. This water would be great for breeding soft water fish, but is not so great for most average aquarium plants._

Hardness (mg/L CaCO3)- 19 average_Measure this with your GH test. Yes, results can vary, but your test of 5 degrees is WAY different. Of course this is an old water company report, and they may change where they get their water from. Different lake or river may have more minerals in it than the source they tested to create this report._

Hardness (grains/gallon[US]CaCO3)(6)- 1.1 average

Magnesium (mg/L)- 1.2_Very low._

pH (pH units)- 7.2

Potassium (mg/L)- 0.6

Sodium (mg/L)- 9

Sulfate (mg/L)- 5.0

I am using API gh test kit and it shows me a gh of 5

_Check the expiration date on the kit. Mine quit changing color, though, when it got old. Are you seeing a distinct color change?
I see the potassium level in the water is also low. This is typical. If you decide to supplement the minerals for the plants you will need to add potassium, too. There are a lot of products out there. Gotta read the label. It is not that any one is 'best', but which one works with your water to give your fish and plants what they need. At this point I think double checking the GH test is the best thing to do. Are there some stores, or fish keeping friends (with their own test kit) that can run another test on your tap water?_


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Diana K said:


> _Adding my comments in italics_
> This is what I found in the 2008 report:
> _mg/l is the same as ppm, and there are 17.9 ppm in 1 German degree of hardness._
> Alkalinity (mg/L CaCO3)- 12.9 average _This is so little carbonate that the pH will be able to vary a LOT. Test this with your KH test kit._
> ...


Yes I see a distinct color change, it turns green when I do the test. I did 4 or 5 gh tests and they come out the same. The date on the bottle is 05/09 ( lot 58 A 0509) but, it doesn't say if this is the exp date or the date when the solution was made. Sorry, none of my friends are in this hobby.

The water company will not change the water supply until 2013, so they claim. As of today the report is accurate

I do dose KN03 3x a week, KH2P04 3x a week, K2S04 3x a week, Epsom 3x a week and the Ultimate Gh booster (wc only). For micros I use TPN and Flourish iron.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

The date on the bottle is 05/09 ( lot 58 A 0509) _This is the manufacture date, and it is good for 3 years. _

As of today the report is accurate. _So... they say barely and Ca or Mg, test shows 4-5 degrees GH. _

I do dose KN03 3x a week, KH2P04 3x a week, K2S04 3x a week, _These should not alter the GH, except that the plants grow well and use more Ca and Mg. _ 
Epsom 3x a week _Adds magnesium, which will raise the GH test. _
and the Ultimate Gh booster _Is this Ca and Mg? Sure sounds like it will raise the GH!_ 
TPN and Flourish iron. _Should have no effect on the GH test._

If you test the tank right before a water change, is the GH lower than right after? Do the plants use up the magnesium and the calcium that you are adding with each water change, and during the week?


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Got this by googling.

"The Ultimate GH Booster Contains:
* Potassium Sulfate (K2SO4)
* Calcium Sulfate (CaSO4)
* Magnesium Sulfate (MgSO4)
* Iron Sulfate (FeSO4)
* Manganese Sulfate (MnSO4)"

Looks like you may be double dosing some things, which may not be bad, if that is what the plants need, and in those ratios. 

If you test some water out of the tap, then add either Epsom salt OR GH Booster, then test when it is dissolved, do you get a different reading?


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## barbarossa4122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Diana K said:


> Got this by googling.
> If you test some water out of the tap, then add either Epsom salt OR GH Booster, then test when it is dissolved, do you get a different reading?


I did get a different reading, about 3 dh difference. Since I can't trust the water report or the test kit I will add CACl2 and Epsom 3*week, plus I'll add Gh booster or Equilibrium once a week with my WC.
I am getting a headache already , but in a strange way, I like it. Thanks Diana.


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