# What's wrong ?



## Arturs (Oct 2, 2004)

For the longest time, I have a problem with growing plants. Plants have small leafs and their growth is poor. I use Ro water.


My setup tank:
Size - 180l (0,65W/l)
No3 – 10 –15 ppm
Po4 - 1 ppm
Fe - 0,2 ppm
Kh 3-4 degrees
Gh 3-4 degrees
Every day I add 6 ml TMG

What am I doing wrong such that my plants look like the ones on the photo


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## New 2 Fish (Dec 31, 2004)

Are you using CO2?


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## Arturs (Oct 2, 2004)

Hi,

I forgot to write that I am giving the dose of CO2 and pH is 6,6


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

You say you're using RO water... what are you using to increase the GH to 3-4?


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## Arturs (Oct 2, 2004)

I use to prepare RO water Mg2So4, Ks2So4 and CaCo3. I dissolve these elements in the water (you can see parameters of water after dissolving below) and I pour it to the tank. 

Parameters:
Ca 40 ppm
Mg 10 ppm
K 10 ppm


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

If you stop using CaCO3 and use baking soda instead to achieve desired dKH and dose CaCl2 to get 20 – 30 ppm of Ca then you will start growing nice plants. Don’t dose K2SO4. Dose the PPS, the SS and PF solutions to maintain proper NO3 and PO4 levels. Then dose only as much PPS Mg solution as it takes to keep it <5 ppm. 
Take more pictures.

Edward


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## Arturs (Oct 2, 2004)

Hi,

Thanks for reply. On Monday I will buy CaCl2*6H2O and NaHCO3. I have just counted parameters of Ro water after adding these elements, so I want to have : 25 ppm Ca and dKH 4 ( HCO3 – about 40 ppm). If I have such concentrations of Ca and HCO3 then then I will have Na 14 ppm and Cl about 40ppm. Is it not too much ? 

I have added more photos. On the pictures are : Hemianthus micranthemoides and Rotala macrandra „green” , Hygrophila corymbosa 'Siamensis 53B'


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Hi
If you planning to do some water changes then CaCl2 will work very well. You also may use the PPS Discus Mix made of CaCl2, CaSO4, MgSO4 and baking soda that allows you running the aquarium without water changes. 
The amount of Na from baking soda at 4 dKH is high but still doable. I run some aquariums at zero KH and the fish and plants love it. My recommendation is to add as much baking soda as it takes to keep 6 pH. That way you can measure it without an electronic pH tester. (1 dKH and 6 pH => 30 ppm CO2). Many sensitive plants don’t like KH and in reality plants do not need KH to grow healthy. 

Edward


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## Arturs (Oct 2, 2004)

You say ...That way you can measure it without an electronic pH tester. (1 dKH and 6 pH => 30 ppm CO2)....

Does it mean that regardless of how much I am giving the dose of CO2 Ph in my tank will be above 6 or equal 6? Am I right?


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Hi
CO2 has the ability to move pH from 8 to 4. Neither is deadly. The final value is dependable on a ratio of KH to CO2. The easiest is to look at the actual CO2 / KH / pH tables and think about it. You will need to stabilize the CO2 delivery amount. Usual and simple method is a bubble counter.

Edward


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## Arturs (Oct 2, 2004)

Why CaCl2 and NaHCO3 are better than CaCO3? Have I got deficiency of Na and Cl? What the level of Ca and Na are good in the tank?


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Hi
People with good Ca levels have reported Ca deficiency symptoms in their plants. Adding CaCl2 usually solved the problem. Mistakenly we assumed more Ca was needed. In my opinion this was wrong because I have run aquariums with pure RO water for years and noticed that plants grew much healthier in CaSO4 and CaCl2 then in CaCO3. 
The Cl portion may be beneficial because it is an essential trace element, however the amount dosed is far over the trace element level status. Na is not necessary to have for plants at all. 
Ca of 20 – 30 ppm works well and is measurable with Hagen Nutrafin Ca test kit. 

Edward


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## kekon (Aug 1, 2005)

Well, the only thing I don't know is "relationship" between CaCl2 and CaSO4. I 
mean, what should be a "bigger" source of Ca, CaCl2 or CaSO4 ? For instance, if we wish to have 20 mg/l Ca what amount of Ca should come from CaSO4 and what amount from CaCl2 ?


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## John S (Jan 18, 2005)

is your tap water that bad that u need to use RO water???


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

kekon said:


> Well, the only thing I don't know is "relationship" between CaCl2 and CaSO4. I
> mean, what should be a "bigger" source of Ca, CaCl2 or CaSO4 ? For instance, if we wish to have 20 mg/l Ca what amount of Ca should come from CaSO4 and what amount from CaCl2 ?


... here ...  ...


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## kekon (Aug 1, 2005)

According to the document I should use 8.7g (CaSO4)*2H2O and 1.66g CaCl2 to have, for example 25 ppm Ca in 120 liters tank. (RO water only). I based my calculations on the following data:

Discus Mix:

CaSO4 3g
CaCl2 1g

The amounts given above suggest that about 80% Ca should come from CaSO4 and 20% should come from CaCl2. Am I right ?


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

To make the PPS Discus Mix take a jar and mix dry amounts of
30g CaSO4
10g CaCl2
10g MgSO4
15g baking soda

Or multiply evenly to make enough supply. This naturally balanced ratio mix is for long term no water change routine. 

If periodic water changes are made, CaCl2 can be used instead of the Discus Mix. The main advantage is the ability to dissolve in small amount of water for easy dosing like dosing pumps for example. 

Edward


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## kekon (Aug 1, 2005)

Thanks for help. Now I'm not confused with Discus Mix


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