# Experience with American Pondweed?



## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Does anyone have experience with _Potamogeton nodosus_ (American pondweed)?

I found some last week at the edge of a pond (with emerged leaves) while I was doing field checks at work.  (I'm excited because it's the first truely aquatic plant I've found in this part of Texas since I moved here last October!...North Central Texas...North of Abilene.)

I was having a hard time with ID until I read this page:

http://el.erdc.usace.army.mil/aqua/apis/plants/html/potamog1.html
It gives the difference between Illinios and American pondweed, which are both common in Texas.

Anyway, I put one plant in my aquarium to see how it did and it produced submerged foliage within 4 days. Today I collected 9 more to see what they do. I'm curious if anyone else has used these and can tell me what to expect. Will they take over like weeds? Do the submerged translucent leaves stay that way?

-Dave


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Photos:


























These are emersed or floating leaves.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

This is a pic of the one I put in my tank last week. The darker, more broad, leaf was 'rolled' at the time and did not melt off, but the petiole extended to about 5-6 inches. The more slender, bronzish, leaf is the 'true' submersed leaf.


















Here is a pic of three of the new ones I just put in this afternoon. I bunched them to see how a 'clump' would look together. It will likely be a week or two before I see significant submerged growth. My expectations are that the bronze color is only on new growth and will eventually turn green, but we'll see.









Let me know what you think.

-Dave


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

That's a pretty plant. 

It's so funny, since I went high tech I never look at another river or pond the way I used to. My mind quickly says, "I wonder what plants I might find in there?"


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Tex Gal said:


> That's a pretty plant.
> 
> It's so funny, since I went high tech I never look at another river or pond the way I used to. My mind quickly says, "I wonder what plants I might find in there?"


Yes, it's alot of fun just experimenting with the local flora. I've even had my brother collect stuff for me from East Texas. Hmmm....now that I think of it, I bet I could get that Juncus to grow now that I've got CO2 going. Oh well, there's no room anyway. 
I need another aquarium!! (My wife would strangle me if I told her I wanted another one.) :boxing:


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Unfortunately the tank collecting is terminal! I have found no cure!! I have 4, my daughter has 2! My husband says NO MORE! BUT.... I have more plants that need a home......   :mrgreen:


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## jmontee (Feb 7, 2008)

dmonkey, I can empathize with you man. I've got one 47 gallon with my wife's goldfish, my 55 gallon high tech and I wnat to start a nano high tech. My wife has threatened divorce.[-X It is crazy how addicting this hobby is!! Anyway, I think I'll be able to talk her into in a couple of months.

Oh yeah, if you can propagate the plant let me know. It looks like it would be really cool to add texture in the tank, kinda like tree trunks.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

jmontee said:


> My wife has threatened divorce.[-X It is crazy how addicting this hobby is!!


Haha! At least your wife has goldfish, mine has very little interest in aquariums or fish. She says she likes to look at it as she's walking by it, but she doesn't give a hoot what fish or what plants are in there. :sing: (That's her yawning, not singing...) In a way that's good because I can make the scape to suit me.

Anyway, sure. If I get it growing and it looks promising I'll post more pics and see if you're still interested. I know for sure there are two clumps (3 rhizomes each) I won't want to keep (since I don't have the room) after I've seen what they do. I just wanted to experiment. Look for an update in the next week or so. They seem to be setting new leaves quickly.

-Dave


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

A bunch of native Potamogetons are well worth keeping. I had one that looked like _P. gayi_ but smaller and a beautiful golden color and another that was larger but all green. Both were very pretty.

I wish more people would experiment with local stuff.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

In the Northeast USA some aquatic plants have short growing seasons and die back to their rhizomes in September. Potamogeton crispus and Myriophyllum spicatum are two of those. 

I don't know if those two plants would adapt to a tropical aquarium. I have tried to keep both without success (but I could say that about other species, too  )

Bill


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## NEKvt (Apr 14, 2007)

I tried crispus too. I planted in the spring when the water in my tank was a lot warmer than the water I took the plant out of, I think that may have done it in. Wanted to try again this summer but have no room for it now. There are lots of cool plants in local ponds, and great fish too that are commonly overlooked by aquarists. A bonus is that in most cases you don't need a heater to keep them


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

So I wonder if having these species (the natives of non-tropics) would be similar to keeping some of the Apon. species that have to have a rest period (a dormancy). 

Perhaps if I still have these Potamogetons by December I'll pull them out and put them in wet soil outdoors and let nature do the rest, just try to imitate their natural life-cycle. I think if I did that I'd also leave some in the aquarium to get a true test out of it. (But that's several months away.)


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## iceblue (Dec 2, 2005)

Currently keeping some P. Crispus that I got from AquaBotanic about a year ago and have not had any problems with it other than its runners popping up where I don't want them. Tank temp anywhere from 74 to 79.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

iceblue said:


> Currently keeping some P. Crispus that I got from AquaBotanic about a year ago and have not had any problems with it other than its runners popping up where I don't want them. Tank temp anywhere from 74 to 79.


Well, that's good news. I just looked at a distribution map on the USDA Plants Database and they both share a distribution of EVERYWHERE in the contiguous states and parts of Canada. It seems, then, that they can in fact adapt to a 'tropical' lifestyle in an aquarium (at least for a year).

The P. nodosus petioles have been getting longer and it's looking now like either a background plant or like it may eventually only have floating leaves (unless trimmed). How does the P.crispus look? Does it keep many leaves under water?


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## iceblue (Dec 2, 2005)

It has not shed any leaves. It is a very fast grower like P. gayi. The leaves are almost transparent and release quite a bit of oxygen. The only problem is maybe that there is an inch between internodes of the leaves, so needless to say it is not a "bushy" stem plant.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Update:

Well, my lighting was insufficient for it I believe. It got slightly shaded by a tall sword and my light was only moderate to begin with. The submerged leaves were really nice and bronze/green with a slight crinkled look. But, the lower portion of the plant was completely shaded and just rotted away after a few weeks. I think it would be a great plant for higher light aquariums, though.

-Dave


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## Avalon (Mar 7, 2005)

Thanks for experimenting with it. I always wondered about the plant that inhabits our ponds...and this is it! I think I'll grab a handfull next time I'm out there and give it a go. There's another one we have I'd like to try as well.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Avalon said:


> Thanks for experimenting with it. I always wondered about the plant that inhabits our ponds...and this is it! I think I'll grab a handfull next time I'm out there and give it a go. There's another one we have I'd like to try as well.


Experimenting with natives is fun, and CHEAP! If you decide to try some, I'd be interested in how it turns out for you!


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

> I don't know if those two plants would adapt to a tropical aquarium. I have tried to keep both without success (but I could say that about other species, too )


P. crispus is easy to grow in the aquarium. It is a very prolific grower, and will grow in most any water conditions. Its actually not native to the USA, but is found introduced all over the country. It is classified as a nuisance/invasive plant in some states, but not federally. Its known as "curly pond weed". I sell the plant.

Your Potamogeton looks cool! Reminds me of a Cryp.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Robert Hudson said:


> P. crispus is easy to grow in the aquarium. It is a very prolific grower, and will grow in most any water conditions. Its actually not native to the USA, but is found introduced all over the country. It is classified as a nuisance/invasive plant in some states, but not federally. Its known as "curly pond weed". I sell the plant.


In the wild (in New York) in starts to die back in August and has returned to its roots, so to speak, in a month or so.

Also in the wild, it spreads along the surface in strings many feet long.

Are you saying that this does not happen in tropical tanks?

Bill


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## Chris Stewart (Sep 13, 2007)

I have collected 3 or 4 different types of Pondweed locally here in Ontario (more specifically, the Muskoka and Kawartha Lakes regions). I've found they grow wonderfully, especially in high-tech, high-light tanks (much like just about any other plant...).

Like many other species of aquatic plants here in Ontario, they often die back to their root system during cooler/freezing months. While some different species of plants I have tried will die back no matter what I've tried, I've never had any type of Pondweed die back like that - they just grow and grow and grow.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Chris Stewart said:


> I have collected 3 or 4 different types of Pondweed locally here in Ontario (more specifically, the Muskoka and Kawartha Lakes regions). I've found they grow wonderfully, especially in high-tech, high-light tanks (much like just about any other plant...).
> 
> Like many other species of aquatic plants here in Ontario, they often die back to their root system during cooler/freezing months. While some different species of plants I have tried will die back no matter what I've tried, I've never had any type of Pondweed die back like that - they just grow and grow and grow.


Thanks, Chris.

Have you tried Myriophyllum spicatum, another curse that is found with P. crispus? That also dies back in late summer, and did that for me when I tried it.

Bill


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

you mean does it die back in the aquarium and then re grow? I have never seen it do that, so I don't know. It will grow to be several feet long though. Someone from the Vermont state government has asked me to either remove it from my WEB site or state it is illegal to possess this plant in VT. Vermont of all places. I didn't know anyone in Vermont even had an aquarium!


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Robert Hudson said:


> you mean does it die back in the aquarium and then re grow? I have never seen it do that, so I don't know. It will grow to be several feet long though. Someone from the Vermont state government has asked me to either remove it from my WEB site or state it is illegal to possess this plant in VT. Vermont of all places. I didn't know anyone in Vermont even had an aquarium!


Robert,

I meant that in nature in the northeast USA it dies back to nothing and then regrows in the next year. M. spicatum does the same.

Those two plants are nuisances in the bays of Lake Ontario and in other lakes and ponds. They form thick mats that make water sports impossible in many places. Both were imported from Europe decades ago. They now outcompete native species. They are banned in many NE states.

i'm not a resident of Vermont but in passing through there I am always impressed by the number of beautiful ponds and lakes. Perhaps the government there wants to keep them that way.

Bill


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Another update on this:

I tried another sample, this time in a spot that did not get shaded by ohter large plants. The parent plant has sent leaves up to the top as floaters (you'll notice both leaf forms, emerged and submerged, have risen to the top). It has also started putting out 'pups' from it's rhizomes. My guess is that eventually the plants wants to have its leaves floating, so it only makes an attrative submerged plant when young. As an adult plant, it's floating leaves are nice to see from an uncovered top, however, care must be taken that it does not shade itself out, otherwise, the stems will melt. These are growing in 2.2 WPG of PC, no top on aquarium. In higher light, some shade could probably be tolerated.

Long slender stalks, dead-center of photo, are the adult stems of _P. nodosus_.









Slender and bronze-colored, near transparent leaves, are the submerged form. The green wider leaf is emerged form.









Young plant coming up.


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