# Needle wheel pump



## bigstick120

I was reading a thread and thought what the heck is this? I must have missed the boat when this topic came up. Anyone care to explain what this is and why it so much better then ceramic diffusor in the water flow. From what I gather you run the pump externally into the return of your canister and bubble the CO2 into the pump?


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## orlando

The pumps are used mainly for protein skimmers. But for our application it works very well and has a few added benefits.

One would be you get added flow to the tank. 
2nd. You get tons of fine mist distributed in the tank much like a Mazzei or diffuser.

The impeller is a little different than your average impeller. Its needle like instead of paddle like. This is what provides the fine mist. 

I hope that all made sense..
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/e...eel-co2-diffusion-fractionating-impeller.html

-Orlando

P.S

You dont have to plumb them into filter lines. I use them on there own separate loops...


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## Tex Gal

I just got one... I have high hopes.


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## ashappard

I've been using them for a while, and think they are great.
extremely efficient, and easier to dial in than mazzei. (my opinion)
the only downside, which I consider an upside is the microbubbles.

microbubbles of CO2 enter the water column and are spread all around the tank. 
some say they are unsightly, I say they help me visually manage flow. 
If I see microbubbles entering and leaving the plantbeds, then I know flow is good.
this has been extremely beneficial to me when managing dense plantings.

a couple feet back from the tank you cannot see the bubbles.
for closeup photos you can shut off the gas.


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## orlando

-O


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## Minsc

Adding a pump to the return of a canister significantly boosts the canister output. Running a closed loop will increase water movement in the tank even further.

The main benefits over a ceramic disk are bubble size and lack of cleaning. Some people claim to have ceramic diffusers that produce ultrafine, mist like bubbles, but I have yet to see one. A plumbed needlewheel produces extremely small bubbles.
Ceramic diffusers do best with regular cleaning, if needlewheel pumps ever need to be cleaned at all, it is very infrequent.

Overall, it is just another way of getting CO2 into the tank. If you already have adequate water movement, and a well functioning ceramic disc that you don't mind cleaning, then there really is no benefit.


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## vancat

Orlando-
can't seem to find it on your site...?


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## ray-the-pilot

ashappard said:


> I've been using them for a while, and think they are great.
> extremely efficient, and easier to dial in than mazzei. (my opinion)
> the only downside, which I consider an upside is the microbubbles.
> 
> microbubbles of CO2 enter the water column and are spread all around the tank.
> some say they are unsightly, I say they help me visually manage flow.
> If I see microbubbles entering and leaving the plantbeds, then I know flow is good.
> this has been extremely beneficial to me when managing dense plantings.
> 
> a couple feet back from the tank you cannot see the bubbles.
> for closeup photos you can shut off the gas.


I'm a little confused about what you are trying to do? It seems that you are trying to make carbonated water!

What is controlling the final concentration of CO2 in your set up? Tom Barr recommends 30 ppm and I think 20 ppm is more than enough. What are you setting as your tank limit?

At 20 ppm I more than double the biomass of my plants in 6 mo.


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## ashappard

In my case there is no target or controller and I have only a needle valve to meter the gas after the regulator, but the needlewheel pump could be part of any controlled system that kicks gas on and off by a pH reading or something else. and it is a lot like carbonated water  or more like a nice stout :drinkers: .

the bubbles are *tiny* when its going well, think of the little bubbles in guinness. After a pint is pulled notice the bubbles move downwards, swirl around - they follow flow readily and are less in a hurry to reach the surface. So CO2 is distributed all around the tank as a fine mist. I have no scientific reason why I've had so much success using needlewheels, but I like it very much.


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## orlando

ashappard said:


> In my case there is no target or controller and I have only a needle valve to meter the gas after the regulator, but the needlewheel pump could be part of any controlled system that kicks gas on and off by a pH reading or something else. and it is a lot like carbonated water  or more like a nice stout :drinkers: .
> 
> the bubbles are *tiny* when its going well, think of the little bubbles in guinness. After a pint is pulled notice the bubbles move downwards, swirl around - they follow flow readily and are less in a hurry to reach the surface. So CO2 is distributed all around the tank as a fine mist. I have no scientific reason why I've had so much success using needlewheels, but I like it very much.


 Well put! 

Thanks! Im thirsty now


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## ashappard

yeah I made myself thirsty orlando..

I don't know who came up with the idea of using the pump off a protein skimmer to mix CO2 into our tanks but bless 'em!


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## orlando

This is the first pump I made to fit under my 120G tank. It was built on a closed loop..









This is the thread I started in October of 08!  On ole PTF...

I'm not sure who thought of the idea, but I love it and I wont turn back.
Except for the smaller tanks 

Cheers!
Orlando


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## ashappard

I remember seeing wasserpest's suggestion to put an AC30 powerhead ontop of a sponge, running CO2 into the impeller. That was around '06, and I remember seeing people melting holes in the impeller blades and also cutting them to increase fractioning not too long after that. I cant remember where I saw the OTP series needlewheels in action, maybe the youtube video. But I got one ASAP and now I have 3 running. I use smaller powerheads on smaller tanks, some with modified impellers.

one thing I haven't tried yet is stainless mesh for chopping up the bubbles. How about you Orlando? I'm a bit worried about it becoming clogged with debris but maybe thats not an issue. I have a stock OTP-1000 that has run 24/7 for 1.5 years now and hasn't been cleaned yet. I don't prefilter the intake on it. So for a long term solution I think the needlewheel misting is pretty stable.


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## orlando

That youtube video is what got me started! Lol!

I have seen people use those mesh mods, have you seen them? It a little kit with some funky mesh and I think zip ties?
I know the reef folks use them all the time. Personally I dont really see a need for them with our tanks.
One thing I was thinking of is building a PVC fitting with one of Hydor ceramic tubes inside afixed some how and have co2 mist going into the pump.
What do you think?


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## orlando

I found it! 
http://www.meshmod.net/


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## ashappard

so you gonna try it? 
I'd be willing to give it a shot. I think the stock venturi I have needs to go also.

heres a quick pic of an unmodified octopus impeller, to show what needlewheel looks like :


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## orlando

I think I might do it this week.. I will for sure let you know how bad I screw it up

Better get a few extra impellers for when I do


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## ashappard

I found this thread on RC that is specific to my octopus pumps, looks like the impeller mod is reversible since the mesh is just zip tied to the blades and trimmed. Let me know how it goes. I think I'll order some of the enkamat mesh this week.

glad this thread got started..just a little nudge to get me to go a bit further with the needlewheel method.
I monitor power draw on my pumps so I'll be able to see what happens there also.

*edit* : well I read the thread(s) closer instead of just a skim, and its not reversible (doh!) 
you cut off the top row of impeller blades. I do have a spare impeller but I still hope I dont screw up when I add the mesh.


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## Minsc

Now I must describe this phenomenon to people using Guiness as a visual aid. Hopefully I bump into slow learners


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## bigstick120

Cool, I may have to try this out. Any pumps that work better then others for this? Do you carry them Orlando?


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## orlando

Im out of stock at the moment. It will be 2 weeks until delivery

You can use Danner Needle wheel pumps or Octopus pumps.

Tom B. has been modifying small Rio pumps that you can see on the PTF thread..He seems to like those..


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## ashappard

orlando said:


> One thing I was thinking of is building a PVC fitting with one of Hydor ceramic tubes inside afixed some how and have co2 mist going into the pump.
> What do you think?


I missed this one, but yes I'd be interested to see if that would do better than having a venturi feeding the impeller.


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## looking4roselines

I had a discussion with Adam a few weeks back regarding needle wheel pumps and decided to give it a shot at co2 misting myself. I order two octopus 1000 needle wheels from Jen's Saltwater Haven for $45 (they were the cheapest I found online) ea and they finally arrived last Friday after a looooong wait.

I also had the impellers modified with two layers of enkamat I bought last week on eBay ($6 for a 6x6") and I was astonished by the results.

Here is the modified impeller: 









http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v351/dumaaa/IMG_8266.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v351/dumaaa/IMG_8267.jpg

I didn't want to damage it so I decided not to remove the top layer of the impeller. However, I did tighten the mesh to prevent it from rubbing.

The pump was very efficient as the bubbles were microscopic and remained in suspension for a while before reaching to the surface. Minutes after operation, fishes started to grasp for air near the surface of the tank and I had to reduce the number of bubbles per second from the original output.

As mentioned by Adam, the mist could also serve as a very good flow indicator. Most of the areas in my 55 gallon tank is virtually filled with co2 bubbles. Just by looking at the movement of the bubbles, I could tell where the turbulence is the strongest and where the water stagnates.

I am normally a forum lurker and I am always too lazy to post anything in threads. But I wanted to spread the word a bit and encourage others to try this method.


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## ashappard

thanks for sharing your experience! I should have my mesh soon and I'll also try to add it without snipping back the impeller blades. Do you notice any additional heat from the pump ( or ideally do you have a killawatt to monitor power usage ) ? too bad on the high price - I got my OTP-1000 pumps for around $26 each, but I do agree that it isnt possible to find it for that price now.  Either way they seem to be very durable pumps and should last for a long time.


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## Andy Ritter

I realize that there are many different paths that can be taken in order to get to the same destination, but I am having a very difficult time understanding why should I choose to take this one.

I currently use an Aqua Medic CO2 Reactor 1000, hanging externally on the back of the tank, with the return water from a Fluval 403 canister filter flowing through it (the return hose is actually set up with a "T", where one half goes through the reactor, and the other half goes to a Loc-Line flexible return, with each side having it's own ball valve so I can adjust the flow; currently, just about all of the return water is going to the reactor). The CO2 is very efficiently dissolved into the water, with no bubbles escaping out into the tank, where it seems to me they would just rise to the surface and pop, which would allow the CO2 to escape.

I have seen where other aquarists also use some type of reactor, but have also seen the various methods of blowing a CO2 mist out into the tank. It seems to me that the reactor method would be more efficient and a lot less likely to waste the CO2. Plus, I doubt any of the fish in nature would be presented with a cloud of CO2 in their water. Is there any real benefit from using this needle wheel pump method over a reactor?

Thanks,

Andy


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## orlando

There is a real benefit indeed. If you read looking4roselines post they are mentioned in there. 

Benefits..

1) No loss of flow like you would with a reactor.

2) You actually will benefit from the added flow by using the fine mist as a flow pattern indicator. This will help eliminate dead spots.

3) Lower Bubble counts on your regulator saving you co2.

4) I have long preferred misting over anything else, but this is just my opinion.

The only draw back that I can see is that it is one more thing you have to plug in


Regards,
Orlando


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## looking4roselines

ashappard said:


> thanks for sharing your experience! I should have my mesh soon and I'll also try to add it without snipping back the impeller blades. Do you notice any additional heat from the pump ( or ideally do you have a killawatt to monitor power usage ) ? too bad on the high price - I got my OTP-1000 pumps for around $26 each, but I do agree that it isnt possible to find it for that price now.  Either way they seem to be very durable pumps and should last for a long time.


I am extremely pleased with the results. I wouldn't mind putting out a few extra dollars and I take it that the benefits would ultimately outweigh the costs in the long run.

I did notice that the pump ran a bit warmer than the average pump. I presume this is from normal operation? Or would the mesh put a strain on the pump because of the added weight and restriction?


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## ashappard

on top of what Orlando added to Andy's question - there is the issue of mist vs dissolved in the water.
I cannot explain why it seems to work better, but when I first switched from reactors to mist I was impressed at the performance with lower bubble rates. So less gas used and better growth. Is it the added flow? the tiny bubbles touching the plants? dunno. Your results may vary 



looking4roselines said:


> I did notice that the pump ran a bit warmer than the average pump. I presume this is from normal operation? Or would the mesh put a strain on the pump because of the added weight and restriction?


thats one of my concerns. I'll monitor power usage before and after meshmod and see if the difference is significant.


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## orlando

Hey Adam, did you go for the mesh mod yet?


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## spstimie

There is a way to test these modifications. Use a killawatt to test the pump use before and after the mod. The wattage should decrease as the air/co2 intake is increased. More air/co2=Less resistance=less wattage. I am modding my skimmers on my reefs and read this on several sites but didn't bookmark any. Just search" skimmer mesh mod" and at least a couple of those forums will have it. I intend to add mesh to the top of one of my needlewheels and see if it drags and what results i get on the killawatt. If it drags I assume wattage will go up even though you would see a performance increase. This could also cause a heat increase. I will probably end up pulling the needlewheels apart but we will see. Maybe ill do the impeller in my 3 gal plant tank, but i doubt it.


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## ashappard

thats my plan spstimie, last night I began collecting wattage data on the otp-1000 with stock impeller, both with and without gas hitting the impeller. I'll compare that to the meshmodded impeller and see how it looks.

I got my mesh in the mail yesterday Orlando, but it will probably be this weekend before I have a chance to install it.


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## bosmahe1

subscribed.

Currently using a Via Aqua 180 Internal (powerhead) water pump with Co2 injected into the intake. It works very well, mist all over the tank and its very small (easy to hide). The plants are growing very well. But, its noisy when the co2 bubbles hit impeller. Cardinal Tetras stay hidden until feeding time and then go into hiding again when feeding time is over. They did not display this behavior when I used an external reactor or ceramic diffusers. Hengels Rasboras, guppies and shrimp don't seem to mind though.

Anyway, looking for another method of misting that may be less intrusive.


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## ashappard

*meshmod on OTP-1000*

I added 2 layers of P4 Enkamat to this spare impeller for 
my OTP-1000 (octopus needlewheel pump model 1000). 
I'll probably trim a bit more to make sure the mesh doesn't 
rub the sides. Based on feedback from another user with 
the same pump, I'll prefilter the inlet to keep 
crap from getting tangled up in the mesh.

click the thumb for a bigger image

 

tonight I was going to swap this modified impeller for the one that is running. 
But my super cool terrarium came in the mail and its got me distracted. 
I'm a day behind schedule so Friday for the swap. With a power analyzer 
I am collecting data from the stock OTP-1000 running both with and without 
gas hitting the impeller. I'll get wattage and other bits to use as baseline data. 
Once the new impeller is in place, I'll collect another 24 - 48 hours of data for comparison.


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## taz81

Am I the only one who gets excited when people say they are collecting data? I have the need to plug it into SPSS (now called PASW...stupid copyright issues).


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## ashappard

taz81 said:


> Am I the only one who gets excited when people say they are collecting data?


hopefully not 
In a past career I did industrial process control and love all those gadgets.
I'll be laying out some graphs to show pump trends, with notes on events -
like added prefilter, added gas, stock vs meshmod, etc. If reefers can do it, why not us?


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## taz81

reefers get data? *gets tempted to go to the dark...expensive..side*


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## Tex Gal

Finally hooked up my needlewheel impeller last night. I can hear the CO2 bubble "hit the fan". I have it on a mag drive 9.5. I got the impeller that was made for this pump. I have my CO2 on a controller. Since last night my pH has only dropped 2 points. I thought one thing this accomplished was quick reaction time. I don't see bubbles coming out of my 6 ft. spray bar. Should I?


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## bosmahe1

Is the noise annoying? Louder than fans on lighting?


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## Tex Gal

It's not really a big deal I was just surprised to hear it. I see NO minute bubble like I thought would be racing around the tank, as discussed in this thread. My ph actually seems to be climbing... Began at 6.8 (way to high for my planted tank!) and is now at 6.9. I know plants are using it as light is on and I see some pearling. This is supposed to be keeping up with it. Wondering what's going on....


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## Minsc

Tex Gal said:


> Finally hooked up my needlewheel impeller last night. I can hear the CO2 bubble "hit the fan". I have it on a mag drive 9.5. I got the needlewheel impeller that was made for this pump. I have my CO2 on a controller. Since last night my pH has only dropped 2 points. I thought one thing this accomplished was quick reaction time. I don't see bubbles coming out of my 6 ft. spray bar. Should I?


It will most likely get quieter in a week or so. I can't help with the other questions, though I am looking forward to your conclusions.


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## ashappard

Tex Gal said:


> It's not really a big deal I was just surprised to hear it. I see NO minute bubble like I thought would be racing around the tank, as discussed in this thread. My ph actually seems to be climbing... Began at 6.8 (way to high for my planted tank!) and is now at 6.9. I know plants are using it as light is on and I see some pearling. This is supposed to be keeping up with it. Wondering what's going on....


hmm. Doesnt sound right.
you should be getting microbubbles, but I'm not familiar with that pump.
have you tried turning up the gas a bit to see what happens?

I have the meshmodded impeller running on my octopus (OTP-1000) now and the difference is definitely noticible. I'm going to collect data for a while and watch it, post something this weekend. I'm at a loss on how to capture the change in bubble size or saturation in any meaningful way, photos have not been much help. I was able to back off on my bubble rate and still have a lot more microbubbles in the water column. I think the smaller size keeps them in suspension longer.


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## orlando

X2^ You should see lots of micro bubbles..

I will be using the mesh mod on this tank









Regards,
Orlando


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## Tex Gal

Orlando - What a beauty!! Is that one of your new tanks?

I don't see any bubbles. Has anyone used the Mag drive pumps to do this? I don't really know where to go from here...


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## orlando

Its all I use  Lots of tiny bubbles..


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## Tex Gal

Ashappard figured it out for me. I have the CO2 getting caught in my UV filter. I need to run the intake, then the UV and then the mag drive with the CO2. The part that was confusing me was that we could not see the bubbles through the tubing. Maybe they are just too small to see through the tubing that we have. One more redo and hopefully I'll have it.


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## Zapins

I am interested in trying this CO2 method. 

I wouldn't mind starting with the octopus (OTP-1000) since it seems to be the cheapest option out there. I'd like to meshmod it eventually, but I'm curious as to whether or not I have to use my Dremel to scrape out a space for the mesh. 

Also, roughly how do plants grown with a needlewheel (unmodded) compare with an inline CO2 reactor and then with a modded needlewheel? Are there noticable differences? Not to get super specific but if you had to estimate in percentages, how much better or worse do the needlewheel (unmodded and modded) compare with the time honored CO2 reactor?


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## ashappard

well, CO2 is CO2  except where mist vs dissolved is concerned

so the issue is consistent delivery and not having to fiddle with gas or hear the phrase "you need to turn up CO2" when you show your tank. I think there is something to misting, the bubbles in the water column seem to do something that dissolved CO2 does not.. But I cant quantify it and it may just be my imagination. Misting also got me more involved in flow management, which has helped with keeping difficult plants and plants in dense stands.

Once I started using mist, I did see a noticeable improvement in plant health. Then there were the more advanced methods. The idea being smaller and smaller bubbles, more efficient delivery of gas. After meshmod, I have turned down the bubble rate - so in my mind efficiency is up. Its been less than a week but so far I'm using an unmodified impeller with mesh just slapped on top of it, no problems. Well, almost unmodified. I got too frisky when pulling a zip tie and broke off a blade. So I also removed a blade opposite the broken one.


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## ashappard

ok, now I'm settled in at work and I would like to give some more information for people who may want to meshmod the Octopus pumps. You shouldn't have to carve the inside of the pump to make space for the mesh, but if you decide to just put the mesh on the top of the impeller as I did with my first one it may be a tedious exercise.

I'm about to do two more of these, and I'm going to cut off the top row of impeller blades to make more room for the mesh and zip ties. I'll take pics to illustrate when I do it, but in summary - once assembled, the distance between the impeller and the cap holding everything together is very tight. It took me a while to trim mesh and move ties around and make it all fit, and I'm going to skip that next time. Also, by removing a row of blades, I can use more layers of mesh.


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## looking4roselines

Adam, have you completed your data collection on power consumption? I'm curious to see the power usage before and after modification.


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## ashappard

sorry I haven't updated this thread, but I do have results more or less.
Nothing significant in the result, which was a bit of a surprise.

In a nutshell, wattage is fairly constant on the OTP-1000 no matter what I've done.
between 24 and 26W - with prefilter, without prefilter, with gas, without gas.
also the same wattage after meshmod.

I'm going to mod another impeller by chopping off the top row of blades.
We'll see if that affects power, but I doubt it.

an airlocked OTP-1000 draws 19W


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## Minsc

Tex Gal, did you ever get your NW running properly?
I'm very curious about your observations on the different methods, reactor vs. NW while using a pH controller.


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## Tex Gal

Yes, I did. Re had to re-plumb. I see much more pearling in my tank. I see it all over the tank. It does seem like the plants react to this form more readily. Either that or the small bubbles actually collect under the plants leaves. Either way it's in contact with the leaves. 

One thing that I feel is strange, is that I can't seem to dial-in my CO2 with my pH controller. I used to keep it at 6.1 or so and now I can't get it to go below 6.7. I have the CO2 pouring out. If I open the CO2 more I will see the CO2 at the pump kind of belching large bubbles. 

I have to conclude that:
1. either my pH controller has broken at the exact time of my change over, (highly unlikely)
2. the CO2 doesn't dissolve enough to seriously effect the pH, yet stays available to plant, (possible?) 
3. I don't know what I'm doing so have no idea, ( most plausible and true even if 1 or 2 above is true!  )

My plants seem to be growing well and rebounding from my absence, so... I know they are liking their environment.

NOTE ADDED: Just found out part of my mystery. Seems my water company has changed my water source. The pH out of the tap used to be 7.0 and is now 7.6. What that means is I am still getting the same drop range with my CO2 but not as low since it starts higher. This is explaining why I'm all the sudden having trouble with some of my Erios....  I guess I should really test once in a while.


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## Minsc

Thanks for the info, very interesting stuff!


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## ashappard

has anyone tried the octopus bubble blaster pump ?
looks like it would be nice for a _large_ tank.


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## Phil Edwards

Those pumps are insane! The reefers are going all goo goo over Reef Octopus skimmers these days, you can see why. Those things will certainly entrain some gas, that's for darn sure. It seems like a serious waste of power and capacity to be using one of these for CO2 unless you're literally having to stream the gas.

Cheers,
Phil


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## khanzer22

That one (Octopus Balster Pump) is a beast... I bought a Mag Drive 7 w/ fractionating impeller and will use it to diffuse CO2 on my 120gal tank... I will update in a few weeks on how it goes...


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## ashappard

Phil Edwards said:


> seems like a serious waste of power and capacity to be using one of these for CO2 unless you're literally having to stream the gas.


capacity yes, but power for the HY-2000S is on par (22W) with the octopus OTP-1000NW I use for my 40G cubes and performance is supposedly much higher. $$pricey$$ is my hesitation now with the HY-2000S going for close to $200 and the OTP-1000NW going for around $35. I'd stick one of the HY-2000S pumps on my 75G for fun if they were a bit cheaper.


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## orlando

ashappard said:


> has anyone tried the octopus bubble blaster pump ?
> looks like it would be nice for a _large_ tank.


Im sure you know, but I thought I would mention anyway. You would never achieve the same amount of froth you see in saltwater compared to freshwater. Although a really nice pump, Eheims new NW pump is also an excellent pump with a variable flow rate.

-O


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## ashappard

orlando said:


> Im sure you know, but I thought I would mention anyway. You would never achieve the same amount of froth you see in saltwater compared to freshwater. Although a really nice pump, Eheims new NW pump is also an excellent pump with a variable flow rate.
> 
> -O


 yeah, I do like watching the froth vids though and they get me thinking about CO2 possibilities. A user of the bubble blaster says it runs cool to the touch as an external pump. cant remember where I read it though. Thanks for the heads up on the eheim orlando, I'll check them out.


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## will5

Where can these pumps be bought?


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## ashappard

reefshops are the best bet, and I think orlando has some? I took a look at the eheims, they dont sound bad but the price range seems close to the bubble blaster. I'm going to keep some pump choices in the back of my head for when I redo my 75G


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## will5

ashappard said:


> reefshops are the best bet, and I think orlando has some? I took a look at the eheims, they dont sound bad but the price range seems close to the bubble blaster. I'm going to keep some pump choices in the back of my head for when I redo my 75G


 Any links to some on line?


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## RedDelPaPa

I personally cannot see how using a needle wheel pump could be more effective or efficient than using a reactor for the purpose of dissolving co2 gas into water. A properly designed and functioning co2 reactor will operate at 100% efficiency because no co2 gas is being lost into the atmosphere in the form of a co2 bubble popping at waters surface. The only real issues with a co2 reactor would be flow reduction, and the reaction time needed to dissolve co2 into water. But that can be made up for by determining proper on/off timing in relation to the lighting period. Keep in mind that if it's required to turn on co2 sooner using a reactor in order to have the ppm at proper levels by lights on, then it also means that co2 injection can be turned off sooner before lights out. No waste of gas. Just a timing issue. Also, for people with a low tolerance for noise, a co2 reactor wrapped in a bath towel is dead silent.

Someone with a moderate+ physics background please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## ashappard

RedDelPaPa said:


> I personally cannot see how using a needle wheel pump could be more effective or efficient than using a reactor for the purpose of dissolving co2 gas into water.


yeah, it seems counterintuitive at first - but try it and you may be surprised. 
I don't think its been established that totally dissolved CO2 is any better (or even as good as) microbubbles entering the plant beds. I ran reactors for many years. Done with them now. I used mazzei injection for a while, its very nice but not so easy to install and tune. I like needlewheel injection of CO2 because its repeatable, consistent, easy to set up and high performing. I'm actually using less gas now.



will5 said:


> Any links to some on line?


honestly, I just use google when I'm looking for parts and rarely keep links. Google knows all.


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## Left C

PremiumAquatics.com has the Eheim 1103 needle wheel pump at a clearance price of $129.99. They ordered too many. Adjustable flow from 211 gph to 713 gph.

**** Included 4 suction feet Connection on pressure side with G 1 Connection on suction side with G 1 WITHOUT diffuser and installation material

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...oduct_Code=EH-1103220&Category_Code=Clearance


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## cah925

I've been using GenX 1500 pumps and they work great. Much cheaper too. It does require some DIY work to inject the CO2, but well worth it.

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...EN-X1500-MOD&Category_Code=MAK4&Store_Code=PA

Here's a pic of it installed.


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## jart

Left C said:


> PremiumAquatics.com has the Eheim 1103 needle wheel pump at a clearance price of $129.99. They ordered too many. Adjustable flow from 211 gph to 713 gph.


Are they simple to set up, Left C?
If so, I'm sold. Are you on commission?


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