# Hagen Ladder bubbles



## cydric (Nov 1, 2006)

I have a nutrafin canister hagen ladder system on my 29g tank and i have the hagen ladder placed under my HOB filter outflow. I also used the packets provided with the system. The bubbles come out very very slow, about 1 bubbles every 1 or 2 minutes which i know that's not doing a thing for my system. After purchasing this system, i find out that's really pushing it for a 29g tank. 

My problem is when the bubble finally comes out and goes up the ladder it doesn't diminish in size whatsoever. It stays the same exact size and goes all the way up my ladder at a pretty fast pace and then exits the ladder and the co2 bubble gets caught in the outflow coming from my HOB filter and then a couple seconds later, it pops. I have my tank topped off. I know how to remedy the 1 bubbles every 1 or 2 minutes, i'm going to attach 2 two litre bottles to the ladder but my question is why does the bubble come out of the silicone tubing and into my ladder and then leave my ladder the same exact size and just pop when it gets caught up in my outflow of my HOB?

This is just strictly using the nutrafin canister provided materials.

Any ideas?


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## redstrat (Apr 3, 2006)

honestly I'd scrap the ladder and put your money in a diffusor for an ultra fine CO2 mist


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## cydric (Nov 1, 2006)

I have a glass diffuser for a nano tank...it's pretty small and i'm sure it wouldn't be good for a 29g tank, right?


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## zeone03 (Oct 25, 2006)

How long has it been hooked up. I just set up my first planted tank and have a DIY CO2 setup with a haggen ladder. When I first hooked it up which was late evening my bubbles were doing the same thing. I thought the same thing, this isn't doing anything. I let it be and the next morning the bubbles were disolving great and still are. They are next to nothing by the time they reach the top of the ladder.

Try the diy mixture and see what that does. I know mines disolving great cause my ph went from around 8.5 to around 7.2. From what I've heard other people recommend if you do two 2L is to start 1 one week and the other 1 the next week that way your switching out 1 each week or so and still have one going strong to help keep the co2 at a more constant level and avoid ph swings caused by the co2


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

The hagen ladder is a great method to dissolve CO2. What you are currently seeing with your slow bubble rate, is O2 being slowly expelled and undissolved on the ladder. 

Jason's given you great advice. Hooking up (2) 2 liter bottles will help you get more bubbles per minute. Also, its often best to use new yeast that you can get in the baking sections of your grocery store. The stock packets for some reason don't pack as much as a punch as making your own.

Once you change that, you'll notice that the bubbles being produce will come out as large undissolving O2 bubbles, then after a few hours, the bubbles that emerge on the ladder will be pure CO2, which will dissolve better as they go up the ladder. 

-John N.


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## cydric (Nov 1, 2006)

It's fairly new, about 3 days hooked up now. I did use the packets that come with the canister and ladder itself. The bubbles are still erratic. Some come flying out and zip all the way up the ladder and just go to the surface and pop. Some get stuck in the ladder and then when another bubble comes along it'll push the bubble that's stuck and then that'll make the bubble bigger because they'll combine and just zoom the rest of the way up the ladder and up to the surface and pop.  ugh.

I got impatient so tonight i did 2 x2 liter bottles of diy co2 thanks to you, John N, for your guide(great w/ the pictures) because that's how i went about doing my co2 setup besides adding another 2 liter bottle to the mix. I followed your guide to the T. I just have my tubing going into my intake on my HOB filter because i don't have any other type of diffuser besides the ladder that's still running, if you want to call it 'running'. I'm so distraught on which diffusing method to use. I've read 50 different ways to diffuse co2 (maybe not 50 but i have read a lot) and i don't know which way to go about it, so right now i have the ladder going with the stock canister and the 2 x2 liter bottles going directly into my intake on my HOB.

We'll see what happens...


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## K20A2 (Aug 12, 2006)

cydric said:


> It's fairly new, about 3 days hooked up now. I did use the packets that come with the canister and ladder itself. The bubbles are still erratic. Some come flying out and zip all the way up the ladder and just go to the surface and pop. Some get stuck in the ladder and then when another bubble comes along it'll push the bubble that's stuck and then that'll make the bubble bigger because they'll combine and just zoom the rest of the way up the ladder and up to the surface and pop.  ugh.


The same thing happened to me, but it passed. After it calms down and starts flowing at a normal pace the bubbles stop getting stuck.

I'm in the same boat as you though, with trying to find the best method of diffusing CO2 while having a HOB filter. I haven't tried plugging my tubing into my filter intake yet though, but its something I plan to do eventually.


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## cydric (Nov 1, 2006)

The bubbles are now diffusing in a more consistent rate. Would a hagen ladder with two 2 liter bottles t'd together be enough co2 to supply a 29g tank?


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

It wouldn't be at great levels, but it should just be okay to start. Balance out the limited DIY CO2, with your lights and ferts and you'll be okay. Enjoy the growth!

-John N.


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