# [Wet Thumb Forum]-What method do you use to fertilize your plants?



## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

What method do you use to fertilize your plants?


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

What method do you use to fertilize your plants?


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

What about Jeff Kropp's "just in time" method?


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

If you are serious, by all means share it with us, HERE. Explain it, Quote him, or get Jeff to come here and tell us about it!


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

Here is the thread Robert,
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2299


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Now how did I know you were going to do that...I must be physicic! Should we talk about it here or on APC? 

I don't see anything in that thread about a theory from Jeff. Its all Toms ramblings, which is fine, but I do not see a defined approach in that conversation. Could you just explain it a little, please?


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## imported_Edward (Sep 2, 2004)

Hi Robert,

*Perpetual Preservation System* by Edward, is not included in this poll.

Many aquatic hobbyists are looking for this method that doesn't require large water changes. The reason may be time or size of tanks.

Entering elements proportionally allows one to perpetually preserve an optimum balance of nutrients.

A fixed ratio of elements, dosed every day at very small quantity to maintain desired concentration in the water column. Twice a month or so, testing only for NO3 and PO4 determines what to dose the following month. 
--------------------
*Standard Dosing:*
NO3 - 0.75 
PO4 - 0.25 
K - 1.00 
Ca - 0.10
Mg - 0.10
--------------------
If testing of water column gives elevated NO3 level, then switch to *NO3-FREE Dosing:*
NO3 - 0.00 
PO4 - 0.25 
K - 1.00 
Ca - 0.10
Mg - 0.10
--------------------
If testing of water column gives elevated PO4 level, then switch to *PO4-FREE Dosing:*
NO3 - 0.75 
PO4 - 0.00 
K - 1.00 
Ca - 0.10
Mg - 0.10
--------------------
--------------------
These solutions can be made easily as follow.

*Standard*
0.75:0.25:1.00 - in 500ml 
KNO3 - 20.38 g 
KH2PO4 - 5.97 g 
K2SO4 - 15.74 g

*NO3-FREE*
0.00:0.25:1.00 - in 500ml 
KNO3 - 0.00 g 
KH2PO4 - 5.97 
K2SO4 - 33.30 g

*PO4-FREE*
0.75:0.00:1.00 - in 500ml 
KNO3 - 20.38 g 
KH2PO4 - 0.00 g 
K2SO4 - 19.56 g

CaCl - 4.62 g in 500ml 
MgSO4 - 16.90 g in 500ml

These solutions make rated ppm at 3 ml / 100 l .
Dosing the same amount of ml for, NO3O4:K:Ca:Mg solutions, makes the right nutrient spectrum for plants.

For 50 gallon tank at 1 Watt per gallon, dosing 3 ml every day keeps nutrients steady. For 130 gallon tank at 3 Watt per gallon, dosing 6 ml.
This system is efficient and easy to do.

Thank you for your time,
Edward


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## aviel (Sep 12, 2004)

Edward,

How come with my 200 gallons tank I feel I need to measure 2-3 times a week while you test once a month??? There are spikes of consumption you know and your nitrate could bottom out after one week, not one month!

I test and re-fill to my desired target 2-3 times a week. I try to stick to the same target for two weeks in order to give time for the plants to get used to the new dosing. If nitrate doesn't drop at a rate of at least 1 ppm per day then I know I have a problem that I have to look for or otherwise something shall attack my tank. On the downside - I feel that I am becoming a slave. If I plan on going abroad for 3 weeks - then that's a sure suicide for my tank.

Also - Tom Bar's "rambling" sounds perfectly logical to me. Of course I am just a newbie so who am I to judge. It is just that "rambling" doesn't sound positive. But again maybe I need to blame my poor english.

What bother me with Tom's approach though is that he is saying - go ahead and reset your tank. Replacing 30-50-70% of the water - doesn't reset things. If I had 10 ppm NO3 before then I shall end up with 7 or 5 or 3 ppm respectively. So this is why I can't buy the "method" that he is suggesting.

Aviel.


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## imported_Edward (Sep 2, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Aviel Livay:
> Edward,
> ...


You have huge swings in nutrient ratio because instability. Your dosing is not consistent and large water changes cause stress on plants and fish. This is why we use the Perpetual Preservation System. When fresh nutrients are available every day, plants have time to take up all they need during that day. There is no day without complete spectrum. Plants get saturated and adjusted to stable environment. Uptake ratio and quantity will become more stable and predictable.

There is no need to go to levels close to zero. You can keep any levels you like, NO3 30 ppm and PO4 2 ppm if you are expecting to go away for 2 weeks. This concentration will guarantee available nutrients when you come back. Then you test it and go from there.



> quote:
> 
> On the downside - I feel that I am becoming a slave.


Exactly right, changing water is not time well spent.

Thank you,
Edward


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Should we talk about it here or on APC?


All the same to me











> quote:
> 
> With "just in time" fertilization you can do smaller less frequent water changes. Frequent large water changes are part of the estimative index. In that method they function as a flush'n fill reset of parameters. When you are more skilled and can maintain parameters such large water changes are perhaps, wasteful. I am observing slowed growth at about 12 to 16 days and do a 20% water change when I notice this slow down. In my case, the slowdown may be related to hardness nutrients since I only add dGH macros with water changes.
> 
> ...


http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15482&highlight=#15482

I think each method is geared for the different level of hobbyist. I think the estimated index is aimed at the new person in the hobby and is good because you don't have to test and understand a lot of what is going on.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

OK, I am just trying to encourage conversation here on the subject!








But hey, anything I can do to help Art hit his 1000 mark is fine with me! It sounds interesting.

Ed, that all sounds very interesting! I am all for less water changes, and have always believed this is possible. I do substrate ferts and water occasionaly, small water changes every two weeks or longer.



> quote:
> 
> Also - Tom Bar's "rambling" sounds perfectly logical to me. Of course I am just a newbie so who am I to judge. It is just that "rambling" doesn't sound positive. But again maybe I need to blame my poor english.


You mean I was being disrespectfull? Not my intent exactly. I have known Tom for years and I have read the same stuff from him a thousand times on virtually every plant forum on the internet. I practicaly know it by heart when I can understand it. Your english is probably better than his!







Just kidding.

There is a link in this forum in the PMDD Primer article to his estimated index article if anyone wants to read about it.


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