# Please help me i've got ich.



## xmuller (Feb 20, 2009)

hi 4 days ago i saw some ich on a couple of fish in my planted tank, so i decided to dose metronidazole and raise the temp. today i woke up to horror!!! more fish look sick and three of my otos have died apparently either from the meds or the temp because they show no sings of ich. it is devastating since i have had no sickness or deaths in 4 years and i am really starting to get desperate. i would like to know if there is anything that i can do to save my fish and not kill my plants. i know otos are sensitive to medication and temperature....what can i do?


----------



## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

I've used Malachite Green with success and no damage/harm to sensitive fish (loaches and otos). The brand I've used is "Rid-Ich+", but there are others as well that are just as effective.

-Dave


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Paraguard by Seachem. Otos are very sensitive to changes in water conditions.
Malachite Green is a carcinogen althou it is probably not full strength in the Rid-Ich+


----------



## Natalia (Sep 15, 2008)

You may consider Ick-Attack from Kordon. The label says it treats ick, fungus and protozoans. I have a bottle that I got at PetSmart. It is 100% organic and sutable for use in fresh and saltwater tanks, harmless for plants and invertebrates. I did not use it for ich, but I treated fungal infection on oto and found it very efficient. I still have that oto. Metronidazol treats internal flagellates and is not effective against ick.

Other ick medications are CopperSafe (Mardel) and Quick Cure, but these are not safe with plants.


----------



## surpera1 (Feb 18, 2009)

i just went through this - i did a half dose of malachite green , some salt , and kept the temp at 88 degrees for 2 weeks - the temp alone will do it - but if its bad enough to be killing fish - which mine was too - you might want to dope it a little bit - it saved my pictus cats and they were absolutely covered - it was horrible - my plants suffered a bit with the salt - but oh well - thats what i did - but in the future its a a strict quarantine tank for me


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

supera1,
salt and 88 degrees is not good for plants and is too warm for many fish.
This method only hastens the cycle but does not kill the ich which can only be killed in the free swimming stage i.e. when the white cysts hatch out the larvae. They then swim to the substate and await their next attack.


----------



## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Newt said:


> Malachite Green is a carcinogen althou it is probably not full strength in the Rid-Ich+


YIKES!! No wonder they recommend using carbon after treatment. I just looked at the directions and, at recommended strength, it provides "a concentration of 0.05 mg/L malachite green and 15 mg/L formalin".

Mmm. Carcinogens and formaldehyde, yummy. op2: It's a good thing I didn't overdose it like I sometimes do with Excel (for algae). It's a wonder that the more sensitive fish are not harmed by the stuff, although it does say to use caution with 'elephant-noses' and freshwater stingrays.


----------



## xmuller (Feb 20, 2009)

thanks for your thoughts everyone. i will try raising the temp untill the otos get a bit uncomfortable. i believe they don't do well at 88 degrees. has anyone used metronidazole for ich? i know it doesn't harm the plants or the filter and i would guess otos could handle it ok. uv sterilizer? any thoughts? tanks. i mean thanks.


----------



## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

Ich is a controversial subject. I think the main reason that it is, is that the treatment is sometimes...oftentimes...worse than the disease. The treatments often upset the status of the tank's bio-filtration and that stresses the fish more than the parasites themselves, and makes the fish's ability to resist the parasite less likely. It's very tempting to go out and get some kind of meds for the tank because, of course, we try to help the effected fish, but that may not be the best way to address the problem because of the side effects to the balance of the aquarium. I have found that if you raise the temps to 86-degrees or so, add a small amount of aquarium/non-iodized salt to generate more slime coat on the fish, the disease doesn't get out of hand and passes.


----------



## surpera1 (Feb 18, 2009)

i know - i doubt any of the meds are good for the plants - the high temp is supposed to kill them - i was told anyway - or speed up their life cycle and get them to the point where your meds can get them - or some combination of the above - but - it worked for me - i mean - you have to do something when your tank is infested with ich - and the three approaches are salt , meds , and high temp - none of which us plant types want to do


----------



## surpera1 (Feb 18, 2009)

heres my thread and comments

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/new-planted-aquariums/61025-ich-my-planted-tank.html


----------



## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

xmuller said:


> has anyone used metronidazole for ich? i know it doesn't harm the plants or the filter and i would guess otos could handle it ok. uv sterilizer? any thoughts? tanks. i mean thanks.


Metronidazole won't kill ich. Rid-Ich+, while having a carcinogen and formalin in it, will not harm the biological filter or harm your fish as long as you use it as directed (the concentrations will be low enough to not cause harm) .

A UV should work as long as the flow rate through it keeps the parasites in contact with the UV light for sufficient time to kill them. This would be the safest method as far as fish and plants are concerned.

-Dave


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

davemonkey said:


> YIKES!! No wonder they recommend using carbon after treatment. I just looked at the directions and, at recommended strength, it provides "a concentration of 0.05 mg/L malachite green and 15 mg/L formalin".
> 
> Mmm. Carcinogens and formaldehyde, yummy. op2: It's a good thing I didn't overdose it like I sometimes do with Excel (for algae). It's a wonder that the more sensitive fish are not harmed by the stuff, although it does say to use caution with 'elephant-noses' and freshwater stingrays.


Formaldehyde is a carcinogen too. It can cause nasal tumors.


----------



## Rockylou (Nov 5, 2008)

Xmuller,

What kind of fish do you want to treat?

Last year, an "expert" recommended a popular malichite green medication for my zebra danios. I used the med at approx. 1/2 the recommended dosage and promptly killed the poor things.

Then, I found the following article:

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.231.4.590?journalCode=javma

If (when) I have to treat ich in the future, will place fish in a hospital tank, and use the heat and salt method.


----------



## xmuller (Feb 20, 2009)

thanks everyone. today some spots have fallen off. i am still using the metronidazole to see if works. i read in some places that it does. i still am having my doubts though. my question now is if i have to do plan b, which seems that it will be to separate them into a hospital tank and treat them, what will i do with the otociclus? they will die in a couple of days without diatom algae. the fish that are infected are neons (which i know are sensitive to medication and salt), rhodostomus, serpaes, strigatas and nannostomus eques. thanks everyone.


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

If the white spots are disappearing now is the time to treat with something rthat will kill the larvae in their free swimming stage. The white spots hatch out new young. Think of it as an egg sack.


----------



## Rockylou (Nov 5, 2008)

Xmuller,

Maybe an otto expert will weigh in, but could you try:

Parboiled lettuce leaf - place lettuce leaf in glass casserole dish, cover with water and microwave until it becomes limp (but not cooked 'til mushy).

Those sinking algae wafers (Hilkari makes one).

Take a pinch of fake food, and hold it under water until it sinks.

(All of the above worked for my ottos when they were new and still in quarantine. Now they're fat and happy in their "big" tank)

Do you have a LFS (local fish store)? Maybe ask if they have some inexpensive plants with algae  that you could buy. They may have a well established tank with algae, and would be happy to sell (or give) you the plants. Just tell them about your ottos.

Also, some members here may be willing to send you a few plants with algae for your ottos.

I have a big bag of Hilkari wafers. If you PM me your address, I'd be happy to mail some to you.

Good luck to you. Hope your fishes get well soon. Please let us know how they're doing.

PS Maybe give Seachem a call (888-SEACHEM) and see what they recommend. They can answer your question about the metronidazole as an ich treatment.


----------



## surpera1 (Feb 18, 2009)

you have to treat the tank - not just the fish - read up on the life cycle of ich - the whole tank is infested with them


----------



## xmuller (Feb 20, 2009)

thanks everyone. i have gotten some great answers. today the fish look the same i don't see one new spot but i can see some old ones still. i guess i am going to do the quarantine. now a quick question, if i do that, how long would i have to wait to put the fish back in the main tank? how long does ick live for without hosts? will they survive in the snails that might still be in the tank? thanks.


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

I think the cycle is about 2 weeks. Raising the temp quickens the cycle; by how much I dont remember as I havent had ich to deal with for about 20 years or so.:laser:


----------



## kalabreeze (Apr 6, 2009)

Hi, I am new here, I want to contribute to this post because 3 months ago I had the same problem. Heavily planted tank with otos and guppies got infested with ich. I didn't want to hurt plant so I took all fish out and put them in quarantine tank with only 1 plastic plant and heater. I added "Super Ick Cure" by API, after 48 hours I removed fish, dumped all water out, washed tank and a pant with hot water and salt, refilled with all new water and added second dose of medication. In two days there was almost no spots on fish. I had to go on vacation the next day, so I removed all medicated water, washed tank with hot water again and filled it with new water, added some salt and bag of gravel from established tank. When I came back in 4 days there were no spots on fish. I did 100% water change again and ick never came back. Most important is to get rid of ick in tank, not spots on fish. When treating planted tank with substrate it is very hard to get rid of all parasite because larvae can hide in the gravel in inactive form that is not affected by medication.
I kept infested tank without fish for 3 weeks just to make sure all ick was gone. It can't survive without host.
I am sure, complete water changes were somewhat stressful for fish, but I needed to do somehting fast as I was going out of town and fish would die from ick anyway.

My otos, and gupies survived this treatment, even without algae in quarantine tank, I dropped some algae waffers but never saw them eating it. Do not worry about moving your otos to quarantine tank, they will be fine


----------



## surpera1 (Feb 18, 2009)

well - thats the thing - the cures can be harmful also - but you have to do something or it will kill all your fish


----------



## xmuller (Feb 20, 2009)

ok. so after an hour and a half of catching the fish i finally got everyone in the hospital tank and now i can treat with the deadly stuff. i am also now running a uv sterilizer in the main tank to try and kill what's left there. my last question is: i have a bit of a snail plague in the tank, will this be a problem for removing ick? will snails be the new hosts of my enemy? thank you in advance.


----------



## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

I think snails have a thick enough slime coating to keep any parasites from attaching.


----------



## surpera1 (Feb 18, 2009)

clown loach will eat the snails - i got a bunch myself - seems like overnight they are everywhere


----------



## xmuller (Feb 20, 2009)

thank you everyone. everything is back to normal. seems like the only effective method for treating disease in a planted tank is remove the fish and treat them separately. but hey, everyone, use gloves and watch out for those carcinogenics. cheers.


----------



## kalabreeze (Apr 6, 2009)

Yeah, taking fish out is the best, glad it worked for you


----------



## jlo (Mar 26, 2009)

i think you should just rise the water temp. personaly i don't use med in my tanks


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

jlo said:


> i think you should just rise the water temp. personaly i don't use med in my tanks


Then you shall never be rid of the parasite in your tank if this is all you do.
There are 3 stages to the life cycle of the ich parasite.
Raising the temp only speeds the life cycle.
The parasite can only be killed in the free swimming stage.
If you do not wish to use meds then you need to remove all the fish so that the parasite has no host to continue the life cycle.


----------



## surpera1 (Feb 18, 2009)

thats right - the temp merely gets them to the vulnerable life cycle stage quickly so the meds can kill them - you will have to treat the tank to rid yourself of it - half dose malachite green 2 or 3 days straight - 88 degrees for 2 weeks - worked for me - my plants survived


----------



## jestep (Nov 14, 2009)

Sorry to dig up an old thread here. Raising the temp past 86 prevents most Ich from reproducing. If you keep the temp high enough, for a long enough time, it will kill the ich completely.

The exception is the few strains of ich that aren't affected by high temperature. Most are but there's a few from what I've read that aren't. One species has an ~30 day life cycle at 86 degrees. This would be a nightmare bug, because you'd essentially have to treat the whole tank for 30 - 40 days even at a high temp. Good luck with that one...


----------

