# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Need Suggestions and Ideas...



## imported_Winzzy (Jun 25, 2003)

Hey all I am trying to get a tank up and going and have run into a few hurdles (car accident) that severely limited my budget. I was hoping that I could tell you guys what I have and what I would like to do and maybe get some good feedback into the most cost effective way of doing it.

What I want to create is a smaller richly planted tank that is not super high maintenance but 5-10 minutes a day is ok. The tank needs to be able to survive a couple days of me not being home though. The more plants the better, as the focus is going to be on the plants first and fish second. The purpose of the tank is to give me a peaceful outlet to relax and get rid of some stress (Just graduated, just got married, just started working 100% commission).

* Fish I would like to keep (depending on final tank size):
* Blue Rams (1 or a pair)
* Otocinclus (unless I can find something better for algae like a small dwarf Cory)
* Red cherry shrimp (??) (eat algae)
* Neon Tetras

Equipment I have:
Fluval 204
Whisper Mini HoB filter
Hagen Co2 reactor and ladder
1 bag of Fluorite gravel
5 gallon glass tank

I think the ideal tank size I would like is a 20 gal but I have no problem having a 5 gal nano either. The question comes to how much light I will need though. A single PC fixture is about $50 while a double is $100+. Is the fluval 204 overkill on a 20 gal? I haven’t been able to find good lighting for the 5 gal as it is 16".

Please help me figure out how to make this work economically and still be a great loking plant display.


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

what i would do is:

get a 20 gallon high. some people like the 20 long, but to me it's just too short.

so, 20 gallon tall
use the fluval 204, and in my openion, it's not an overkill.
use the bubble ladder, but don't buy the refills. use this mixture:

1 cup sugar
1/4 teaspoon dry yeast
fill to line with water

for lighting i would look to http://www.ahsupply.com i would think that the 55 watt kit would work. it would put you into the 2-3 watts per gallon range. total cost is about 75 bucks with bulb.

for fertilizers, look at http://www.gregwatson.com get the bulk powder stuff and mix your own. it's easy, and you save big $$$.


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## Maxmillion (Mar 12, 2004)

Hi, I agree with what russell has said, I have a 20 high that I use for quarantine tank for new fish. It has one 55watt kit from ahsupply with 6700k bulb. Plain gravel for substrate(estes bits of walnut), whisper HOB filter-media, just sponges. CO2 is from high pressure with just a glass diffusor. Plants--e. tenellus, water sprite, java moss and fern. I'm thinking of changing the substrate to either sand(no more than and inch) or ecco complete. The e. tenellus is so thick from front to back on the left side I can't even see the back of the tank.


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## imported_Winzzy (Jun 25, 2003)

I actually have a 65w PC kit that I could use (Leftover from a debunked saltwater endeavor) I could even bump that up to 110-130w by using two but that would be 5+ w per gal. Scary! main thing I don’t like is the cost of building a hood (and time).

I do like the 20h though and I could get that black silicon one for pretty cheap. How many bags of Fluorite do you think I would need to get a 2-3" coverage on one of those?

So sounds like I will be going with a 20H, 55-130w PC lighting (need input here I don't want to be an algae farmer), fluval 204 and DiY Co2 using hagen ladder.

Will 55w give me enough to keep all types of plants? Can DiY Co2 keep up with 5w a gallon?

Thanks Russell and Max!


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## imported_BSS (Apr 14, 2004)

Hey there,

If you haven't yet, please read through http://www.rexgrigg.com. Lots of good planted tank FAQ stuffs there in a straight-forward approach.

Using 55w on a 20h should keep you under 3 WPG, so that should help keep the algae chances a bit lower. You might not be able to grow all plants with a 55w, but you should be able to grow most of them. And, IMO, lower maint and 'all types of plants' can be a bit at odds. But, it sounds like you have a decent idea of what you'll be facing. Do expect some algae issues in the first couple of weeks/months. But, stick with it and it should level off just fine!

Good luck,
Brian.


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

i have found that if you sprinkle some activated carbon under your substrate when setting up a tank, it greatly reduces your initial algae troubles.


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## imported_Winzzy (Jun 25, 2003)

Activated carbon to soak up excess nutrients? I will have to write that down. Thanks for the tip!


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

but, after your tank gets established, you don't want carbon, because it takes nutrients away from your plants.


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## imported_Winzzy (Jun 25, 2003)

Ok so the I am thinking that 110w is to much for the 20H, but I do have that option.

So we have:
20 gal.
55-65w of pc lighting (6500k-10000k)
Fluval 204
Fluorite substrate with a little activated carbon mixed in.
Hagen ladder with DiY Co2

Sounds like the makings of a decent tank! But I still have a few more questions: 

Is 6,500-7,500k substantially better for plants than 10,000k? I tend to like the way 10,000k looks better (little less yellow). 

Should I be using peat? Phoenix, AZ has pretty hard water. The LFS that I like actually suggested using there RO water and reconstituting it (for the fish not the plants). On the forums it seemed like most people felt reconstituting was anywhere from bad to a waste of money except in very few situations.

Also I know I am going to need some good test kits, but which ones and where do I buy them. Remember I am on a super tight budget and need to convince my wife this is achievable =)

Do you guys buy your plants at LFS, Online, or even from other forum members?

Thanks,
Tim


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## imported_russell (Sep 14, 2004)

remember that if you use carbon, sprinkle it on the bottom before you put the substrate on top. i also sprinkled some peat granuoles underneath, but that's just a personal preference, it's not that necessary.

10,000k is as high as you would want to take it, but i think it should be fine. some members also use 9325. the bulbs are even cheaper if you go that route.

i use all hagen test kits ordered from http://www.bigalsonline.com they seem to work fine. you mainly just need no3, po4, kh and ph. other good ones are mg and ca.

i get all of my plants almost exclusively from forum members. robert also has some really nice ones. ludwigia glandulosa is especially nice, but it's kinda large. stems are 4" across.

remember, if you are going to get all that light and co2, you will want to get fertilizers. again, look at http://www.gregwatson.com


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## imported_Winzzy (Jun 25, 2003)

I Have recently found out that I may have to move in 3-7 months, Should I wait until after I move to set up my tank? 

I have no idea How I would move an established tank.


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## CrownMan (Sep 12, 2005)

I have a 20H with 55W of PC lighting, Flourite, No CO2, 2 small HOB AquaClear filters with sponges and bags of bio ceramic media inside each. I don't do regular water changes on this tank (maybe 35% once a month if I think about it) and the only thing I add is Flourish maybe once or twice a week. This tank has been up 3 years and I have had 1 case of green water which I fixed with some water changes and a Magnum Filter. It is covered wall to wall with Crypt Luteas so thick you can't see the gravel. Underneath the gravel is a large growth of Echin. Tenellus. Also growing is Java Moss on a piece of bogwood and several Bacopa Carolinia stems around the bogwood on the side and back. The bacopa is reddish in color near the surface. I have 3 Blue Rams, 2 Julii Corys and 3 otos. This is one of my low maintenance tanks.

Mike


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