# Under gravel filter in a planted tank?



## ToddZilla

Hi folks,
I've been in the fish hobby for 20+ years but am kinda new to planted tanks. I have to redo my 125 gal. tank and I haven't found much information on this topic, so the question is: What are your thoughts on using a under gravel filter in a planted tank, cons, pros? Any help would be great. I'm going to use all flora-max substrate, no gravel or sand..
Thanks! :-k


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## JustLikeAPill

No one really uses under gravel filters for anything anymore. Every now and then someone will use one but Canister filters are the way to go, and if you can't go that route then use a hang-on power filter. 

Canisters are really the way to go, though. But to answer your question, it would be a hassle because plants grow into it, then when you move plants around/replant/throw out a lot of the roots will break off and stay and rot under the grid, this could also disturb the roots of other plants by pulling them up through the grid since the roots will intertwine, breaking them off/damage them, etc. 

Worst case I can see is a large plant could pull up the whole thing if you weren't very careful when replanting. 

Make sure you research your substrate and are sure you want flora-max and not something like eco-complete or aquasoil (which I REALLY reccomend!.) Not that I have anything against Flora-max, just that if you change your mind later it will be a PITA to replace it all, and costly. I learned that lesson the hard way but on a much smaller aquarium.


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi ToddZilla,

Welcome to APC! Actually, I like UG filters and use them in my larger tanks. I get nutrient flow throughout the substrate and no anaerobic areas.

45 Gallon w/UG and canister









30 Gallon w/UG and canister


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## ToddZilla

Yes, that makes a lot of sence, I'm using regular gravel mixed in with some cichlid sand because I wasn't doing a planted tank at start but now I do have roots growing up my intake tubes. I've been using liquid ferts and root tabs for growth. I'm actually going to use a mix of floramax and activeflora because I've been saving/buying substrate over the last couple of months and that's mostly what LFS sell around here. I really hope it works well this time because I'm battling algae like I've never seen before, I've tried everything.

So I've also been wondering about, with all the plants/roots in the tank, does anyone use a gravel vac or does that disturb to much, just stick with water changes?

Thanks for the help!


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## ToddZilla

Wow, nice looking tanks Roy, yes I was wondering that as well about the nutrient flow.. I'm just not sure which route to take because I don't want to screw it up. How do you take care of any algae you get in your tanks?


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi ToddZilla,

As for using an AquaVac, I don't use one but I do 50% water changes weekly. What what I have read, members that do use an AquaVac usually do 25%-33% of the substrate weekly followed by the water change. No only does the "Vac" process stir up debris and mulm, but can cause a spike in the nitrate levels so the water change helps to mitigate that.

LOL! You are right, roots in the UG can be a challenge. I have 2" - 3" of substrate and roots still get to the UG. I have very good success with natural gravel, now I use various montmorillonite clay products for my substrate. I do not use the UG filters as my primary filtration system; I use them to augment my canister filters. I like a canister filter with a GPH of at least 7X the volume of the aquarium.

45 Gallon with natural gravel









I find my most effective method of algae control is my lighting, both the intensity and the photo-period. I use about 2 WPG and have split photo-periods of approximately 5.5 - 6 hours. I fertilize using the Estimative Index method.

I recommend that new members read the "Stickys" at the beginning of the sub-forums. They cover a lot of the basic information and answer a lot of questions (and saved me a lot of money when I started). I like the "Stickys" at the beginning of the "New to Planted Aquariums", "Fertilizing", and "Lighting" sub-forums because they cover a lot of what is necessary to know in order to succeed in this hobby.


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## Left C

Have you guys tried RFUG (reverse flow under gravel) filtration?


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi Left C,

No, I am familiar with RFUG but all I do is standard UGF. In fact, I am thinking that I want to have less "stuff" in my tanks and I may try my 30 gallon without the UGF when I do a "breakdown" later this month. It will be interestig to see how it does.


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## jerrybforl

Seattle your tanks are beautiful!!! Wish I had your scaping skills.


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Thanks jerrybforl,

Just like everyone else, I am still learning. One thing that helped was when our club, GSAS, had Karen Randall out to Seattle from Boston to do an Aquascaping talk. Karen has been a judge for AGA and other national and International competitions and she did an excellent presentation on the components of an successful aquascape.

The Aquatic Gardener's Association has the DVDs for this year's convention available on their website, including Karen Randall's talk.



> *NEW!* The *2010 Convention* (2-disk set) is now available, and featuring all the stuff you've known and loved about the AGA Convention Videos: Claus Christensen asks the question "Are your growing conditions ideal? And do you care?", gives us some hints on shipping plants and acclimating tissue culture samples, and takes us on a tour halfway around the world. Dr. Mike Kane gives a lecture on amphibious plants, and a tissue culture workshop. Watch the AGA's best stick sterile samples into little jars! Karen Randall presents on aquascape design principles. Ghazanfar Ghori teaches how to grow emerse Crypts, and Jason Baliban talks about aquascape photography. We've also got a 3-camera edit of the Iron Aquascaper competition (sponsored by ADG), and a 9-minute highlight reel from our tour of Florida Aquatic Nurseries. This convention is also available on High-Definition Blu-Ray.


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## Diana K

I had RUGFs running in several tanks when I started adding plants. 
The plants grew best in one tank that did not have a complete UGF. Odd shaped tank. The root mass in small gravel without the UGF was really massive. 

I removed all the UGFs and got rid of most of the gravel. 

As RUGF, a method of cleaning the gravel the system did not work very well. The way I made it work was to drain the tank, (halfway or so) then refill by directing the hose down the tubes. This had enough flow to dislodge the debris in the gravel. Then I had to do another water change and vacuum the gravel lightly because most of the debris settled back down, on top of the gravel at first. 
This double-water change got old really fast. 
The original UGF was easier: the debris got under the plates and a tube directed down the up tubes removed that debris pretty well. 

I have seen a set up with a UFG, and fine gravel to grow a really good bacteria colony in a planted tank. The UGF was just a few inches wide and ran the full length at the front of the tank. A partition separated it from the plant substrate. It was hooked up to a canister filter. The intake from the canister went down both back corners and hooked up to a pipe that took in water from the UGF.


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## davemonkey

When I first went planted, it was in a 55 that had a UG only on half the tank. For some reason, the plants on that side grew slower than the other half. I had a powerhead running the UG filter, so maybe it was too much flow? I never really figured it out and eventually tossed the UG filter. But looking at Roy's photos really impresses me about UG filters in planted tanks.


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi davemonkey,

The reason your plants may have done better on the non-UGF side of the aquarium is UGF filters break down the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates and reduce the amount of available nutrients, especially at the root level. I dose Seachem Flourish Tabs in conjunction with my EI dosing to augment the nutrients at the root level.


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