# Chelated iron - yes?, no?, which?



## nfrank

Yesterday, i mentioned that ETDA iron may not be as stable as HEETA or DTPA. Iron in ferts. Today, i noticed a 2nd post mention EDTA  to Bind Heavy Metals. I wondered about the differences of Fe vs other metals, so I thought i would investigate a bit on-line. The internet has become wonderful way to quickly find peer reviewed literature. 

One interesting 1998 study, perhaps relevant to aquariums, says: 
"FeIIIEDTA has a half life of about 2 hours in sunlit waters. Complexes ofEDTA with other metals do not exchange with iron and are photostable. Therefore, EDTA behaves like 2 different compounds: - FeIIIEDTA undergoes fast photolysis with biodegradation of the metabolites. The other metal-EDTA complexes are persistent in the environment." Biodegradation of the photolysis products of FeIIIEDTA​
While, the EDTA detoxification of heavy metals is stable (as mentioned by Diana), the resulting Fe complex is not....although 2 hours is much shorter than i thought. This info may be important for choice and frequency of iron dosing expecially in tanks wo soil. However, sunlight is much wider spectrum than artificial light. I believe the UV may be the culprit (organics are more efficient absorbers of short wavelenths), so 2hr may be an extreme value unless UV filter is used.

Then i got to think about my statement about HEEDTA and DTPA stability. These are the chelators used in Tropica's TMG/TPN which i have used for the past 15 years. One reference i found says they are indeed more stable at high pH, DTPA stability. I have not yet found anything about its photo-sensitivity, although Tropica says it can be dosed weekly and I trust what Claus has been recommending.

What about the stability of other iron additives, like ferrous iron (Fe+2) gluconate (i have never used it, but it seems to be needed daily?) and of other trace element products. CSM Plantex uses EDTA.

Are there other dry trace element mixtures which use better more stable chelators?


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## Bert H

EDTA will bind divalent cations, but I don't know how what the affinities for different cations are. While, I can't speak to the stability of Fe chelators, but I use DTPA chelated iron solution. I have hard water, and found adding EDTA-iron always brought on a precipitate. I don't see any precipitation with the DTPA.


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## nfrank

what DPTA product do you use, and how often?


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## wet

Hi, nfrank. DTPA chelated Fe at 10% concentration is available on most aquarium dry fertilizer sources (GLA/Orlando, Rex, etc). Additionally, I have been told but have not confirmed that Miller's Microplex uses DTPA as its chelating agent.

Using my eyes on and experience with plants as my testing kit -- the same method you discussed in Dummy Question #6 -- even with DTPA I find benefits from dosing daily, with better color (not necessarily shades of red) and leaf size and density forming with regular Fe and micronutrient addition. Though I do agree Tropica's Master Grow is the best micronutrient fertilizer I've ever used, I also preferred to dose it multiple days of the week. (I've never used Plant Nutrition.)

Last two cents is I've put DTPA chelated Fe into Seachem's Excel and dosed it to .2ppm Fe / 5mLs into 10 gallons and was very happy with it as my version of Special Sauce to perk plants up. Some input from our chemists about chelated Fe in a solution with glutaraldehyde is appreciated, though I'm sure fellow nerds are already googling, though most studies are in relation to Fe in blood/hemoglobin.



> I have not yet found anything about its photo-sensitivity, although Tropica says it can be dosed weekly and I trust what Claus has been recommending.


Only so I understand/for my curiosity: does this mean you find Tropica's relatively low Fe addition in it's recommended dosages adequate for your tanks, or that you trust Christensen's recommendation but also dose more than the recommended doses in your sweet tank?

Thanks for the informative pdf, sorry about the messy post. Stop distracting me from work, APC, dammit.


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## wet

Bert H said:


> I have hard water, and found adding EDTA-iron always brought on a precipitate. I don't see any precipitation with the DTPA.





nfrank said:


> what DPTA product do you use, and how often?


Not exactly the same, but you guys might like these pics from an old demonstration I did on some other thread, especially in regards to time percipitate forms. The time indicated is time between DTPA chelated Fe input (what would be 0.5ppm Fe into my tank's volume) and KH2PO4 input (2ppm, same). The pic was taken approximately 5 minutes after adding KH2PO4 into each container. IIRC I bought this DTPA Fe from Rex.


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## nfrank

wet said:


> Only so I understand/for my curiosity: does this mean you find Tropica's relatively low Fe addition in it's recommended dosages adequate for your tanks, or that you trust Christensen's recommendation but also dose more than the recommended doses in your sweet tank?
> QUOTE]
> 
> With my soft tap water (KH<2), and moderate additions of minerals (1t CaSO4, plaster + 1t Epson salt to 60gallons of replacement water), i have been dosing 45-50 ml TPN weekly. In older tanks, i recall that i dosed 20ml per 70gal. I believe both are less than Tropica's recommended amounts on the label. My tap water does provide some iron, and the AS might provide some. My previous tanks also had some iron in the substrate.
> 
> Once i stop playing with macros, i would be willing to experiment with adding extra Fe. I do prefer a product that does not have to be added daily.
> 
> The Iron - PO4 precipates are interesting. If i remember, i will try that with TMG. Precipates are not necessarily all bad, at least for the plants i like to keep The Fe can resolublize once it settles into anaerobic zones of the substrate. As we know, ferns however, depend on the water column. So, i have to beleive that i am maintaining high enough levels to keep them happy. I also have a nice crop of Riccia attached to the intake of my overflow.


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## nfrank

nfrank said:


> what DPTA product do you use, and how often?


I am still very interested to learn how often folks use DPTA chelated Fe.... and if anyone has done Fe tests to see how stable are the concentrations over several days or longer.

Apparently, this conversation occurred years ago on APC. For example, I found this. See HeyPK's Comments. I checked the product he mentioned and found it is still available. Iron DPTA

I looked at my Fert Box, and found i still have over a pound of 10% FeDPTA.

*So how do folks use it, how much, how often? * I am hoping it doesnt have to be used daily, and someone has data to demonstrate this 
To dispense traces dry, this would be helpful: Pinch spoons. Similar dispensors come with aquarium test kits. I need to hunt for mine.


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## Bert H

nfrank said:


> what DPTA product do you use, and how often?


I bought a fairly large amount of it from Greg back when he had his on-line business. I use 2 ml of Flourish, and 1ml of the iron chelate on my moderately lit 50's 3-4x/wk. I've never known how folks can add the humongous amounts of iron they do and not have problems. I tried increasing the amounts for a while, but it seemed to correlate to an increase in gda. I can't see where my plants need any more than that. Maybe if I had more lighting, it might be needed.

I've never bothered to try to figure out how long it remains available.


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## nfrank

Bert H said:


> I use 2 ml of Flourish, *and 1ml of the iron chelate *on my moderately lit 50's 3-4x/wk.


What is 1ml of the chelate mean? Isnt it a powder?


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## Bert H

nfrank said:


> What is 1ml of the chelate mean? Isnt it a powder?


Sorry, I didn't clearly state it. Yes, it is a powder (Fe 10% in DPTA). I make a 10% solution (10g/100ml water) and dose from there. It ends up being the same as Flourish Fe solution, strengthwise.


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## wet

A couple notes for others that we missed in our discussion:

1) When I state that I have found it advantageous to dose Fe daily, I should also note that my tap has moderately high (~6dKH) carbonate hardness, which has an effect on the effectiveness of the chelator. Folks with zero/low KH and very acidic water/soil will find that has an effect on their needs for Fe input and quality of chealtor.

2) I grow lots of fast growers in every high tech tank I've kept, which, again, affects my tanks' Fe needs.

3) This discussion is about Fe specifically. This is worth restating because many people confuse Fe discussions with a discussion on all traces. For example, when we dose DTPA chelated Fe, we are not doing it as a replacement for, say, Flourish or Plantex or Microplex or whatever, but rather as a _supplement_ to such a trace mix.

nfrank,

Did you see the Sprint 138, using EDDHA? From their papers:


> Sprint 138, a 6 percent fully chelated EDDHA iron, is preferred inthe most challenging soils that are alkaline and calcareous,including soils with a pH greater than 7.0. Sprint 138 contains thehighest ortho ortho (5.2%) content available in the industry, pro-viding a highly efficient chelate that will keep working to "shuttleiron" from the soil to the plant for an extended period of time. Soil Application


But pricey at ~$20/lb in 5lb quantities for a lower percentage of Fe. But, of course, if it stays available for a very long period of time...


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## nfrank

"WET" provides good summary and reminder points: 
1. stability of chelated Fe may be lower with higher alkalinity (test results talk about pH, but that may be indicator of KH)
2. Uptake of Fe is likely higher with fast growing plants. That can explain why i get away with lower iron levels, even with TPN.
3. Balanced inclusion of other trace elements are also important.

I googled and found a few papers that indicate that EDDHA is even more stable than DPTA with high pH. http://extension.unh.edu/agric/AGGHFL/pHarticl.pdf. This publication pointed out "if a different nutrient (e.g. manganese) is limiting then application of iron may worsen the
problem because of antagonistic effects."

I couldnt remember why i dont specifically do iron supplements. Are folks really conviced that iron alone is lacking. I would much prefer a complete suite of trace elements, in the correct proportion, but one with a more stable, less photosensitive chelator which doesnt require daily dosing. If Fe is the problem trace, then a mix of FeEDTA (with other traces) supplemented with FeDPTA may make sense. There used to be powder which came that way.EDTA+DPTA mix I think Microplex (4%Fe)and Plantex(7%Fe) both use EDTA. So, a mix of Microplex and DPTA Fe? (provided that you wont miss the copper)


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## wet

nfrank,


> Are folks really conviced that iron alone is lacking.


I find this a particularly good question because, as you know, measuring available Fe in soils and the water column is impractical for us hobbyist farmers. Zapins made a good point in General the other day suggesting the reason a guru (we all know) claims CO2 the root cause of most any plant problem is that, due to the lack of available testing equipment, it is an unproveable claim. While I disagree with Z about that particular guru's motives, I do acknowledge that much of this -- CO2, COD, Fe, and so on -- is a little close to voodoo and relies a little too much on anecdotal information. Voodoo in the same way that, say, guys will justify dropping thousands of dollars on audio cables because, hell, they hear the difference. F logic.

But to answer your question, I am convinced that Fe is a nutrient that needs special attention. I realize the better color (green plants are greener, red plants redder) I experience is entirely subjective. I realize I've no hard data. But Fe is an easy variable to control with easily available fertilizers and the many times I've played with the variable only strengthens my conviction.

I also think, like anything in this hobby, we should all try for ourselves and hope others share what they find. The funnest part of playing with Fe is changes show impact relatively quickly, and we can play with quantities or frequency for, say, 1-2 week samples and clearly see the (lack of?) effect on our fast growers. And our plants can recover from mistakes just as quickly.



> I would much prefer a complete suite of trace elements, in the correct proportion, but one with a more stable, less photosensitive chelator which doesnt require daily dosing.


How important is this lack of dosing to you? I realize you've automated your water changes, but would you be willing to keep an extremely acidic 0 dKH tank if it meant nutrients such as Fe stayed available? In addition to the other benefits acidity gets us with certain plants, of course.



> If Fe is the problem trace, then a mix of FeEDTA (with other traces) supplemented with FeDPTA may make sense. There used to be powder which came that way.EDTA+DPTA mix I think Microplex (4%Fe)and Plantex(7%Fe) both use EDTA. So, a mix of Microplex and DPTA Fe?


You may be interested to know that back in 2004 Greg Watson had the same idea. He released a mix called "Plantex CSM+B+Extra Fe" which, using additional DPTA Fe, increased the percent of Fe from Plantex CSM+B's standard ~7% to ~10% by mass. Gains from this product got me interested in Fe as an individual nutrient! The special mix never took off though and Greg discontinued it within months. You may find it humorous that I still have and occasionally use some of that original batch and add fresh chelated Fe because I know that original batch's Fe has long since oxidized. There have been periods over the years where the bag got a hole and was exposed to oxygen, I kept it in a clear container out in sunlight, and so on.


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## nfrank

Your provided empirical evidence is strong.

I can try to offer a rationale why extra doses of iron may in fact be needed, and not the other traces.... even for lower pH and KH. As i indicated in my initial post on this topic, the Fe-EDTA bond may be weaker than the other trace elements. So, additional doses of iron may make sense.



> How important is this lack of dosing to you? I realize you've automated your water changes, but would you be willing to keep an extremely acidic 0 dKH tank if it meant nutrients such as Fe stayed available?


I am a creature of habit.... and it is hard to teach an old gardener new tricks! I really like weekly dosing of traces.

I do keep my KH very low. My tap water only has 1-2 deg hardness, and i only add 1t CaSO4 + 1t Epson Salt (MgSO4*hydrate) with each 60 gallons of replacement water. KH probably stays very low. I havent calibrated my pH probe in a while, but believe the pH is in the low 6's. However, I am not sure pH is the only issue with EDTA. The lit suggests it is also photo-reactive. Of course, i havent tested for Fe variation. Data would be handy.


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## bsmith

I am no scientist but I will put my .02 in here. I have a high tech tank and have not been dosing Fe by itself for the past week or so because I ran out. I was only dosing CSM+B. On Thursday I started putting seachem Fe in the tank again and I can say that visually the tank looks much healthier. I was under the assumption that the Fe in CSM+B would be enough but it seems that is not true in my case.


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## bigstick120

Another option is the Brightwell aquatics
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/239718/i/10/product.web


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## Diana K

From the link posted by bigstick
Ingredients include purified water.
"Iron (min) 1.2% "

I would rather not pay that much for water...


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## wet

What we know about EDDHA chelated Fe (Sprint 138, aka "Super Iron")

6.0% EDDHA Chelated Fe. The label looks like this:









It is a very dark substance that will stain the water. The left is a large (~1.0ppm into 20 gallons) wet dose and the right the trial/experiment sample of dry. I am sorry for the cellphone pics. I'll update these images this weekend if you'd like.









Weight trials (10) for 1 leveled teaspoon (5mL) show a density of 2.42 grams per 5mL.

Trials (scale accurate to 10mg)
2.42g
2.42g
2.43g
2.42g
2.42g
2.42g
2.42g
2.42g
2.43g
2.42g

So,

about 1/8tsp adds 0.2ppm Fe into 25 gallons.
about 1/16tsp adds 0.1ppm Fe into 25 gallons.

*At 0.2ppm Fe it will color the water pink.* Certainly gets your plants redder looking  ... an optimist might call it a free 9325K effect   This video is currently being processed by YouTube but has a test of 0.2 ppm Fe into my tank. It still retained a pink tint ~12 hours later.

Dosages at 0.05ppm do not noticeably cloud the water.

I am going to continue to experiment with this chelator. However, the side effects probably mean we have to use it at a low concentration, which may mean it can only be a supplement to other sources of Iron. For example, Tropica uses some percentage of DTPA and HEEDTA in their solutions, and Tropica Master Grow is a pinkish purple that does not noticeably tint the water column after 5 minutes of dosing. I can continue updating in this thread if there is interest else I'm sure I'll post about it in whatever threads it is relevant in


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## nfrank

Very impressive documentation.

As we discussed off line, folks on other forums have also reported the staining effect of FeEDDTA.

This is not to say that this product does not have value as a supplemental source of Fe as WET mentioned. First, it could be useful when used at the concentration that does not cause discoloration. This may be consistent with Tropica's mix of DTPA and HEEDA which i have heard is mostly DPTA. Second, the discoloration can be an indicator of how long it stays in solution. Until the color dissapears, the Fe-EDDTA iron levels may be present. However, this can also suggest that the plants are having trouble consuming it.

Additional dosing tests may be useful, to reflect differnt several environments: (1) high light and minimal or no plants (to look at photosensitivity), (2) high light and large plant mass (to look at incremental rates of plant uptake), probably with and without other consumable Fe and (3) at different levels of GH (to reflect pH without CO2) to judge differential stability.

Until i know more about (1) and (2), i am not going to put it in my "show" tank. .


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## wet

let me apologize ahead of time for any typos as I peck at this phone 

I misunderstood what you found elsewhere - I did not know anyone had used eddha in an aquarium before but understood the staining that comes with certain chelators such as (possibly?) heedta. is that right or got linkage?

1) will be easy with a sample in a cup. 2) can be my tank and anyone with high light testing (and I hope you're still down with some other tank). 3) should be kh? this is a great set of initial tests that we can build on!

this weekend will involve massive water changes and testing for a good range from eddha, after I see what happens with the current dose. (I've not checked since leaving home this morning, of course.)

thanks neil.


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## wet

Test 1 is a cup with saran wrap (think gas exchange is important?) with the exact same light as Test 2. Test 1 has 10mg of EDDHA-chelated Fe (the smallest increment I could get from my scale). Test 2 is 0.02ppm Fe -- Not a typo.

Test 1 on the right 









I'm doing it this way for Test 2 (my tank) because even 0.05ppm Fe is too pink in daylight. I dosed the tank to 0.02ppm Fe today, and will assume any shade of pink means Fe is available. The only other source of Fe for this tank during this experiment is CSM+B, which previously I dosed every other day. I am thinking about dosing this once a week... too many changes during this experiment? Thoughts?

I will not be dosing DTPA Fe during our experiment. There's plenty of pics for reference from my previous daily dosing. I also mini-rescaped, and I'll have plants I know and a plant I don't (Lindernia rotundifolia 'Variagated') for personal reference. Please excuse my mess.

Guys testing this stuff got some emergent Polygonum sp. 'Sao Paulo' they can adapt to a colorful and Fe-hungry submerged reference plant if they want it, by the way.

<3


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## deicide

If I was around a little sooner I would have warned you guys about this form of FE  As you have now found out that it tints the water quite readily. EDDHA is excellent at higher PH levels above 7.5+, this is not needed for our application when we have DPTA available.

Stick with DPTA or HEEDTA if you can find it, both of these are excellent FE sources.

I dose .02ppm FE daily from a DPTA source and its more than enough iron.

Dosing .2ppm, .5ppm or 1ppm 'trying' to get colors if the wrong way to go, there is more to achieving colors from plants than going crazy with this 'trace' when there are _*5 other equally important*_ ones which sadly gets overlooked. Keep in mind that this is a _*trace*_ element and it should be dosed as such.


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## wet

Thanks, deicide. Questions:

1) Why do you dose DTPA daily as opposed to, say, twice a week?

2) Will EDDHA chelated Fe stay available longer than DTPA in pH under 7.5? Is the difference closer?

3) Is the pinkness of EDDHA an indicator that Fe is still available?

I agree that daily dosing Iron is so easy to make part of a dosing routine and is very effective. But this is still interesting and appealing to me, as is maybe combining these Fe sources Tropica style. And it is nice to read and think about your posts, though (only my opinion) I do not agree with some details. You should post more often.   

---

Day 3. I am not sure I see pink any more in the test 2 (with uptake, aka the tank) sample, so I am dosing 0.02ppm Fe again tomorrow am. My Polygonum sp. 'Sao Paulo' is not as red and has tips somewhere between orange and olive green. This is atypical of its normally more brilliant than L. senegalensis color in this tank.










In real life test 1 (aka the cup) does look less red/pink, but not as dramatic as the pic. Maybe I am just used to it.


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## barbarossa4122

This morning I added 15ml in my 55g and 10ml in my 30g of a 0.02ppm solution of Super Iron and the water is not stained. The solution is 1 tsp in 500ml of DI water, as instructed by Wet.


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## barbarossa4122

Just added 10ml and 5ml more and the water is stained now but, not too bad. So, it took 25ml(55g) and 20ml(30g) to stain the water slightly.


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## wet

Thanks, barbarossa4122! I also like how you adapted the solution for your needs 

For others, barbarossa4122's good range was 0.021 to 0.026ppm Fe for his 55 and 30 gallon, respectively, using two significant digits. These are in-line with the levels diecide recommended. None of the calcs here account for substrate and stuff displacement and are meant for ball park.


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## barbarossa4122

wet said:


> Thanks, barbarossa4122! I also like how you adapted the solution for your needs
> 
> For others, barbarossa4122's good range was 0.021 to 0.026ppm Fe for his 55 and 30 gallon, respectively, using two significant digits. These are in-line with the levels diecide recommended. None of the calcs here account for substrate and stuff displacement and are meant for ball park.


Thanks wet.

I am thinking of doing this when I make my next CSM+B solution: to 1L of DI water I'll add the following:
2 TBS of CSM+B
2 tsp of DTPA Chelated Iron (just ordered 1/2 from GLA)
*1 tsp of Sprint 138*
20ml of Excel (for mold and fungus)

I will add 10ml of this solution to my 55g 3*/week

Also I'll add 10ml of TPN/TMG 3*/week.


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## wet

i think you've got the right idea, barbarossa4122. but if each of those chelated formsof Fe get released at different times, and if you're in a good range for all other traces supplied by that mix (and I think you are), maybe you only have to dose it once a week after water change?

---

back to clear. I am going back to my regular dosing for a week to get my bearings back. I am of the opinion that 1 week samples is fine when playing with Fe in a high growth stem tank. but I'm also happy to be convinced otherwise 

I forgot to link this calculator for fe sources in this thread: http://wet.biggiantnerds.com/fe_calc.pl It does Plantex CSM+B, Miller Microplex, DTPA and EDDHA, plus other heavy metals for the mixes.


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## barbarossa4122

wet said:


> i think you've got the right idea, barbarossa4122. but if each of those chelated formsof Fe get released at different times, and if you're in a good range for all other traces supplied by that mix (and I think you are), maybe you only have to dose it once a week after water change?
> 
> ---
> 
> back to clear. I am going back to my regular dosing for a week to get my bearings back. I am of the opinion that 1 week samples is fine when playing with Fe in a high growth stem tank. but I'm also happy to be convinced otherwise
> 
> I forgot to link this calculator for fe sources in this thread: http://wet.biggiantnerds.com/fe_calc.pl It does Plantex CSM+B, Miller Microplex, DTPA and EDDHA, plus other heavy metals for the mixes.


I already made the solution the other day when I received the DTPA from GLA. I'll start dosing tomorrow and see what happens. Btw, Mr. Barr said my new solution looks OK. I'll keep in touch.
Thanks wet.


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## Dantra

wet said:


> Folks with zero/low KH and very acidic water/soil will find that has an effect on their needs for Fe input and quality of chealtor.
> 
> 2) I grow lots of fast growers in every high tech tank I've kept, which, again, affects my tanks' Fe needs.





nfrank said:


> I do keep my KH very low. My tap water only has 1-2 deg hardness, and i only add 1t CaSO4 + 1t Epson Salt (MgSO4*hydrate) with each 60 gallons of replacement water. KH probably stays very low. I havent calibrated my pH probe in a while, but believe the pH is in the low 6's. However, I am not sure pH is the only issue with EDTA. The lit suggests it is also photo-reactive.


I have the same issue as above. I sometimes blast the tank with 5 wpg, thats with all 4 lights on at the same time (Tek fixture). When I do that I can't help but wonder if the light issue alone is exhausting the Fe or killing the chelator.

Not to mention that my water is very soft. my pH is 5.0 to 5.5, KH 1, GH 2 but I fight to keep it at 4. Does my very soft water and high light affect Fe? I also have mineralized soil.



bsmith said:


> I am no scientist but I will put my .02 in here. I have a high tech tank and have not been dosing Fe by itself for the past week or so because I ran out. I was only dosing CSM+B. On Thursday I started putting seachem Fe in the tank again and I can say that visually the tank looks much healthier. I was under the assumption that the Fe in CSM+B would be enough but it seems that is not true in my case.


Since I started dosing extra Fe (DTPA Fe (10%) my plants have "perked up" a lot. I originally thought it was a Calcium or Magnesium problem because of my soft water by when I started dosing Fe the results spoke for themselves. I was lacking Calcium and Magnesium but my "extra iron" was what I was missing the most.

My last question is, what is the equivalent of mg to tsp? The calculator gave me this 12.11 mg of DTPA Fe (10%) into 16 gallons gives 0.02 ppm Fe. I really have 18 gallons but subtracted the substrate and rocks.

Dan


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## wet

Dantra,

Your very soft water may mean quality of chelator is less important than for those of us with moderately hard KH water/high pH from tap. So, maybe EDTA is good enough. (But worth noting lots of soft water folks dose DTPA.)

I wonder the same thing about light, too. 

The density of each nutrient varies. I have orange-ish DTPA Fe from I think Rex but maybe GLA (I forget). They may be using the same stuff anyway. (It looked the same as stuff I got from Greg years ago but contaminated and had to replace.) Let's assume we have the same stuff.

In 10 quick trials just now, my DTPA-chelated Fe averages to 4.29grams/tsp. So, if you put 1/4 (one quarter) tsp into some container and filled to 500mL, then dosed 5mL of that solution into 16 gallons, you'd be around 0.02 (0.018 ) ppm Fe.


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## wet

nfrank and Dantra,

Here's test 1 for photosensitivity, for what it's worth. Left is 10mg EDDHA after 8 days. Right is the reference with 10mg EDDHA added right before the pic. Both samples use tank water (~6dKH from tap), by the way.









Specifics of the environment for test 1 was a 40 gallon breeder half-filled. 96w-192w CF in a burst schedule with sunlight from a South facing window. (So, "high light.") I'm going to do it for another week even as I dose the tank itself with my old dosing schedule (a mix of DTPA and EDTA sources) for the upcoming week.

So, I think these first tests and the fact pink disappears from my tank shows EDDHA to not be very photoreactive when compared to plant uptake. Plant uptake seems to have a greater impact than light when dealing with this specific chelator. *But photosensitivity does appear to matter at some level.*

Are folks still interested in this anecdotal testing of EDDHA isolated? After some recent posts from Plantbrain on his forum and conversation with nfrank off-forum I'm thinking about starting next week with a mix of it and my other chelated forms of Fe barbarossa4122-style.

Thanks!


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## bsmith

Nvm


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## barbarossa4122

2 TBS of CSM+B
2 tsp of DTPA Chelated Iron (just ordered 1/2 from GLA)
*1 tsp of Sprint 138*
20ml of Excel (for mold and fungus)

I will add 10ml of this solution to my 55g 3*/week + 10ml TPN 3 times/week.

Started to dose this on Saturday and the water doesn't get stained at all. Fish and plants are OK, so far.


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## Dantra

Hey wet, the plants you sent me are responding very well to my water parameters and the super- iron that you sent me







. Dude that stuff is like steroids to the plants.

I don't know what the name of this plant that you sent me but it arrived dry so I floated them for a day then planted. Anyway, here is the plant, it started looking like this on day three they are going on day five now (sorry no background on the tank yet):










The plant looked pale green when it arrived but as you can see the entire plant is turning red. First it turned a bright healthy green and then red. Is that normal? I don't know because I never had that plant before. The other plants are growing very well too.

I just thought I let you know that all is well and the plants are responding very favorably to the super-iron  .

Thanks again,
Dan


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## wet

Thats awesome -- thanks for the update, Dan. And your 60p is looking good. Love the fish and plants.

That plant is Polygonum sp. 'Sao Paulo', which was sent to you as emergent growth and is now adapting nicely to submergent growth. Totally normal. It colors up really nicely submerged but I haven't been able to keep the red past the stem and the funny heart-shaped spots on leaves emergent.

All the folks who got the iron got it. Maybe we can use it to compare as we all play with iron.


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## bigstick120

Diana K said:


> From the link posted by bigstick
> Ingredients include purified water.
> "Iron (min) 1.2% "
> 
> I would rather not pay that much for water...


Flourish Iron is 1.0% the Brightwell is 1.2% Ferrous gluconate and iron EDTA. Ive been using it with success.


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## Dantra

Thanks wet.



wet said:


> All the folks who got the iron got it. Maybe we can use it to compare as we all play with iron.


I wouldn't mind doing that. Sounds like fun! I don't know what others have as substrate but I am using mineralized soil capped with aquasoil and I'm dosing via Estimative index. I've yet to experience an algae outbreak except for the little bit I get on the rocks from the lights. I'm still raising the lights an inch or so a week until I find that happy medium.

It would be interesting to compare notes with one another. I'm considering using 2 parts DTPA Fe (10%) and 1 part Sprint Fe 138 (6% Fe-EDDHA). I'll let you know how it works out.

Dan


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## bsmith

Dantra said:


> Thanks wet.
> 
> I wouldn't mind doing that. Sounds like fun! I don't know what others have as substrate but I am using mineralized soil capped with aquasoil and I'm dosing via Estimative index. I've yet to experience an algae outbreak except for the little bit I get on the rocks from the lights. I'm still raising the lights an inch or so a week until I find that happy medium.
> 
> It would be interesting to compare notes with one another. I'm considering using 2 parts DTPA Fe (10%) and 1 part Sprint Fe 138 (6% Fe-EDDHA). I'll let you know how it works out.
> 
> Dan


Man that sounds like a nutrient POWERHOUSE!!! I have been thinking about this because it seems that Aquasoil in my tanks like t degrade to a fine silt after about 6 months or so. When I pull plants from it a layer of brown sawdust (best description I can think of) sits on the top waiding to be disturbed by water flow and settle on my plants and equipment. MTS just sounds like it would be a HUGE mess after a few replantings though.


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## barbarossa4122

Since I started dosing the Sprint 138 and the TPN my javas, cabombas and anacharis are getting out of control. I do dose 3 kinds of Fe.......EDTA, DTPA and EDDHA. I dose about 2.5 to 3 ppm Fe/week.


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## wet

nfrank said:


> I have not yet found anything about its photo-sensitivity, although Tropica says it can be dosed weekly and I trust what Claus has been recommending.


Hey, Neil. Stumbled upon this one today. Seen it yet? You'll dig it.

http://www.clemson.edu/cafls/depart...eenhouse_production/light_iron_marigolds.html

(from above) Photosensitivity of DTPA:


















barbarossa,

Been playing with stuff Fe made of 41% EDTA (Plantex), 51% DTPA (my old junk) and 8% EDDHA (the Sprint 138 ). Works very well so far and, if we put the times available for each of these solutions on top of each other, dosing anywhere from 1x to 7x a week depending on uptake should be reasonable. With this concentration daily EDDHA dosing is acceptable without distracting tint. I'd like to adjust the micros from Plantex closer to Tropica/Microplex levels, though. I'll post a howto when I am done playing. (Weeks? dunno)


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