# Should anyone care what the GH of their water is?



## ray-the-pilot (May 14, 2008)

OK I guess if your GH is 1000 ppm or 10 ppm that tells you something about your water but not enough to help you grow plants or keep fish. 

What I want to know is how much calcium and magnesium is in my water. 

Do you think we should discourage people from adding something to their system that increases GH without saying how much it increases Ca and Mg?


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Very important that you know the difference between Ca and Mg. Both will raise the GH, but plants use these in a pretty specific ratio. While some variation is not a problem, if the balance is too extreme you may have problems. 

For example, if you are using RO water (next to no Ca or Mg) and you aim for a GH test result simply by adding Epsom salt. Sure, the GH test tube will turn the color you want, but you are not helping the fish or plants, which need Ca, too. 

Under most average conditions the GH is probably not too far off. There is some of each Ca and Mg in most tap water. But there are a lot of aquarium keepers that are doing something to the water (Softener, RO, other) and it would probably be much better to test for the specific elements rather than a combined number.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Finding water GH is useless because it is made of two unrelated elements, Ca and Mg, we need to know both. Also, the ratio does not matter as long as there is no extreme and more is not better. For most tropical plants less is better.


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## Brilliant (Jun 25, 2006)

I could care less about calcium or magnesium. I dont add it (for the exception of whats in trace) I dont test for it. Most of my tanks are soft water tanks. The plants I've passed on to members of this forum and many others seem very happy with them. I receive many compliments on my photos of plants, fish and shrimp.

Its been years now and my tanks havent crashed and fish havent disintegrated. 

Quite honestly the only real grief I had is when I switched to pps which incorporates heavy magnesium dosing.

To answer your question...I dont think there is a need to add anything to increase GH/tds.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Brilliant said:


> Quite honestly the only real grief I had is when I switched to pps which incorporates heavy magnesium dosing.


The correct PPS daily dose is only 0.1 ppm of Mg.


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## Brilliant (Jun 25, 2006)

Edward said:


> The correct PPS daily dose is only 0.1 ppm of Mg.


Strange you mention a specific daily dose. I always thought the strengths of pps over other dosing plans is the custom daily doses. I like the style of pps and the ratio of ei, a hybrid if you will...

Perhaps I did something wrong but the ratio or magnesium to nitrate or potassium seemed close. In any event I dont see the need to dose magnesium or calcium other than what is in trace ferts like tmg or flourish.


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## ray-the-pilot (May 14, 2008)

Brilliant said:


> I could care less about calcium or magnesium. I dont add it (for the exception of whats in trace) I dont test for it. Most of my tanks are soft water tanks. The plants I've passed on to members of this forum and many others seem very happy with them. I receive many compliments on my photos of plants, fish and shrimp.
> 
> Its been years now and my tanks havent crashed and fish havent disintegrated.
> 
> ...


I guess if you have soft water coming from you tap with the right amount of Ca and Mg you are pretty lucky. Fish and plant growers look for these places to set up shop!

I'm not so lucky. While my tap water has a good Ca/Mg ratio. The problem is there is just too much of them; so, I dilute it out with RO water. About 1 part of tap to 4-5 parts of RO comes out at about 20 ppm Ca and 6 ppm Mg.

I've been doing this plant thing for about 2 years and have given away a lot of plants as well. I test my water regularly. for KPN as well as Fe, Ca and Mg.


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## Brilliant (Jun 25, 2006)

ray-the-pilot said:


> I guess if you have soft water coming from you tap with the right amount of Ca and Mg you are pretty lucky. Fish and plant growers look for these places to set up shop!
> 
> I'm not so lucky. While my tap water has a good Ca/Mg ratio. The problem is there is just too much of them; so, I dilute it out with RO water. About 1 part of tap to 4-5 parts of RO comes out at about 20 ppm Ca and 6 ppm Mg.
> 
> I've been doing this plant thing for about 2 years and have given away a lot of plants as well. I test my water regularly. for KPN as well as Fe, Ca and Mg.


I start with 0ppm ro. Testing, kh, tap water and calcium is the devil man.


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## darkoon (Jun 7, 2010)

I use GH booster to increase after every water change, the main reason is not to increase GH, but to have enough Ca, Mg, Potassium and Iron in the water.


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## ray-the-pilot (May 14, 2008)

Brilliant said:


> I start with 0ppm ro. Testing, kh, tap water and calcium is the devil man.


What do you add, if anything, to RO?


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## catwat (Oct 5, 2009)

ray-the-pilot said:


> What do you add, if anything, to RO?


Seachem Equilibrium or GH Booster. Also, Alkaline and Acid buffer as needed. Or you can mix it with tap water until you get the desired results.


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## ray-the-pilot (May 14, 2008)

catwat said:


> Seachem Equilibrium or GH Booster. Also, Alkaline and Acid buffer as needed. Or you can mix it with tap water until you get the desired results.


The problem with those synthetic GH boosters is they contain tons of sulfates. In ordinary water the Ca and Mg are in the form of bicarbonates. That is why it is better to use plain tap water to boost your Ca and Mg.

I mix my tap water 3-1 (i.e. 3 gal of RO to 1 gal of tap). I take a bucket of hot tap water and let it cool overnight. The next moring I add 0.25 ml of Prime (to remove chlorine if any is left). I use this with my RO. I've tested it enough times that I know that Ca will be about 20 ppm and Mg about 6 ppm using this ratio.


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## Saturation (Mar 24, 2010)

Just curious why do you use hot tap water and then cool it? instead of using cold tap water and then letting it sit.

Helpful info on this thread guys
thx


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## ray-the-pilot (May 14, 2008)

Saturation said:


> Just curious why do you use hot tap water and then cool it? instead of using cold tap water and then letting it sit.
> 
> Helpful info on this thread guys
> thx


I've had a couple of bad experiences with chlorine so I am paranoid about putting anything in my tank that I am not 100% sure has no Cl2.

Hot water has less dissolved gas so less CL2 and probably your hot water has no Cl2. Since I am going to wait to add the tap water it is safer to start from hot rather than cold water. Also hot water has less/no algae, bacteria and protozoa.


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## Saturation (Mar 24, 2010)

I was under the impression that hot water would dissolve more chemicals and the like in the pipes and hot water tank. I am very curious as to how i should go about making water changes as I don't know what is best: starting with hot water, starting cold water or using RO water as we have an RO filter.


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## Aquaticz (May 22, 2009)

darkoon said:


> I use GH booster to increase after every water change, the main reason is not to increase GH, but to have enough Ca, Mg, Potassium and Iron in the water.


Can someone explain the relationship of KH vrs GH? I dose via EI
I have two tanks, one has inert gravel the other oil dri a clay based material.

The readings for the tank with gravel is KH=4 and GH =8
The readings for the tank with oil -dri is KH = 8 and GH=12

Both tanks are maintained the same way
What is your take?


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## darkoon (Jun 7, 2010)

If you dose CaCO3 or have crushed corals in the tank, it will increase both KH and GH.
If both tanks are maintained the same way, my best guess is something with your substrate.


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## potatoes (Jun 25, 2010)

Why not just use water of a similar temp to your tank, and add amquel+ or Prime? they remove chlorine and chloramine


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## Aquaticz (May 22, 2009)

darkoon said:


> If you dose CaCO3 or have crushed corals in the tank, it will increase both KH and GH.
> If both tanks are maintained the same way, my best guess is something with your substrate.


it is definetly the substrate ( one is gravel & one is a clay product called oil-Dri). I dose Flourish 3 X a week. neither tankl has coral but both have some wood.

Is it fair to say that there is no correct or optimun GH to KH relationship?


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## ray-the-pilot (May 14, 2008)

Saturation said:


> I was under the impression that hot water would dissolve more chemicals and the like in the pipes and hot water tank. I am very curious as to how i should go about making water changes as I don't know what is best: starting with hot water, starting cold water or using RO water as we have an RO filter.


Well it is possible that you may have some exotic pipes but mostly they are copper and heaters are usually glass lined so there is nothing that will dissolve readily in hot or cold water. 
Some things like salt are more soluble in hot water but most gasses are less soluble in hot water.

If you are not into hot water that isn't a problem: use cold water but make sure there is no chlorine in it.

The answer to your second question is hard to answer because it depends on what you are trying to do. My goal was to set up an Amazon biotype. That meant I needed to have low Ca/Mg levels (GH). My city water is about 240 ppm CaCO3. I add 3 gal of RO water (14 ppm CaCO3) to one gal of city water. If you do the math, this works out to about 70 ppm which is what I need.

In order for you to figure out what is the best, you need to know the level of Ca/Mg in your city water and RO water. Then mix them in a proportion that will get you to the CaMg level you need.

If you have no special need for Ca/Mg and your city water is not way out then use only city water since it is the most plentiful and available.


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## ray-the-pilot (May 14, 2008)

potatoes said:


> Why not just use water of a similar temp to your tank, and add amquel+ or Prime? they remove chlorine and chloramine


Are you asking me this question? Try putting your responces with a quote, that will tie it together with the thread you are talking about.

RTP


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## darkoon (Jun 7, 2010)

Aquaticz said:


> it is definetly the substrate ( one is gravel & one is a clay product called oil-Dri). I dose Flourish 3 X a week. neither tankl has coral but both have some wood.
> 
> Is it fair to say that there is no correct or optimun GH to KH relationship?


i don't think the GH/KH relationship really matters, as long as you have suitable GH and KH to keep both fish and plants happy.


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## Aquaticz (May 22, 2009)

darkoon said:


> i don't think the GH/KH relationship really matters, as long as you have suitable GH and KH to keep both fish and plants happy.


Ok sounds reasonable but then..... what is suitable"?

trying to wrap my cracker thin head on this one - thanks for your patience.


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## ray-the-pilot (May 14, 2008)

Aquaticz said:


> Ok sounds reasonable but then..... what is suitable"?
> 
> trying to wrap my cracker thin head on this one - thanks for your patience.


It depends on what species you are keeping.

If you are doing an Amazon biotype then you need low GH and low KH

If you are doing an African rift valley biotype you need high Ca/Mg and high KH.

If you don't care then what come out of the tap is probably OK.


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## Aquaticz (May 22, 2009)

Thank You Sir


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