# A beginners algae issues



## taz81 (Jul 13, 2009)

First off let me stress something. I am a BEGINNER, and finding a 100 different sources saying 100 different things is stress that I fear my heart cannot handle much longer. Please do not be mean, yes i'm scared of you aquarium people...I swear to god every one of the fish people at every pet store or fish store I go to make me feel like morons in spite of the fact that they're all saying different things, and look at me like I'm a fool for repeating what another person said. Also, when you start using acronyms or assorted aquarium (esp. planted aquarium) jargon i get this confused look on my face that would only be suitable for a discussion in person. So please if you're going to use acronyms like EI, PPS or other technical things like micro nutrients that are much beyond pH, CO2, or the nitrogen cycle, help me out and either explain it to me or point me to a good reference. I know there are plenty of you who want to say...just go read/find it yourself, but please realize that I have TRIED to do that already. I have spent months now trying to figure things out, and all I am not finding any consistency...anywhere. Sorry had to get that off my much beleaguered chest.

So anyways onto my issues. I have a low-light 29g tank with 2 red wentiis, 2 java ferns, 1 anubias (nana maybe? The one on the log), 7 dwarf sagittaria subulata (do they come in dwarf variety, or is dwarf just something people add on to tell people sagittaria subluatas overall are small?). Basically I'm trying to replicate this, without paying ridiculous shipping prices, by supporting a local pet store, specializing in fish. I also have 3 honey gourami's, 3 boesmani rainbows (Yes I realize they should be in a longer tank, now. Sadly in all my prior research I didn't find that out until 2 weeks after I got them.), and a male betta (oddly the most docile of the bunch). I also have a regular "deluxe" hood regularly sold through fish stores (yes I realize that's like .59 watts per gallon, I said a low-light tank!). I do not have a CO2 injection system, nor do I have the money to purchase one, as I am a poor graduate student. My tank is cycled with no discernable level of ammonia or nitrites, and below a 5.0 reading of nitrates (I have a master test kit).

Anyways, surprise surprise I am getting algae. Lots and lots of different kinds of algae. I am thinking of adding shrimp to my tank, and now I'm thinking Amano shrimp, due to their reputation of algae eating. I realize, however, that this much algae is a sign of poor balance in my tank. Unfortunately I haven't a clue what, specifically, is wrong, or how to correct it.

I'm not really sure what kind of picture would be most helpful for anyone kind enough to help me so I will just give you my album link. My Algae Album. The last four appear to be the most telling.

And for the love of all that is good and holy will someone tell me what "pearling" is.


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## Tu13es (Jul 8, 2009)

I'm mostly a noob myself, but I added a pair of amano shrimp and some snails to my 29gal tank which had a light algae problem and it was gone within a few days.

I also put together a CO2 system a few days ago. It was very easy and cost only a few bucks. Not sure how much it's helped yet, but whatev. I'm making another one for my other tank tonight.

Pearling, as far as I know, is when bubbles begin to form underneath plants' leaves. I assume this is because they have enough CO2 that they create enough oxygen to form bubbles? Someone else can confirm this.


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

Pearling is when the water is saturated with oxygen so any further oxygen that is produced by the plants forms tiny bubbles.

It looks like your plants are having trouble growing due to the low light and the algae is taking over. Until you have about 2.5 wpg (watts per gallon) on your tank don't worry about adding a CO2 system. I'd say the first thing you need to do is get your plants growing and that will most likely require more light. If you're able to, you can use sunlight from a window or else buy a better light fixture. If you haven't done it yet, I'd recommend looking at the stickies in the El Natural forum for a low cost method of running a tank.

Another thought is what type of filtration do you have? What is your water change schedule? How much do you feed your fish? If there are too many nutrients in the tank and the plants aren't growing well enough to use them up then there is bound to be an algae or two (or more) that will happily take over. Also, it looks like most of the plants you have are slow to moderate growers. A couple of fast growers like hornwort or Hygrophila difformis would help take up the nutrients better. Anything you do though will most likely require better light.


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## taz81 (Jul 13, 2009)

cs_gardener said:


> Pearling is when the water is saturated with oxygen so any further oxygen that is produced by the plants forms tiny bubbles.


Thank you!!



cs_gardener said:


> It looks like your plants are having trouble growing due to the low light and the algae is taking over. Until you have about 2.5 wpg (watts per gallon) on your tank don't worry about adding a CO2 system. I'd say the first thing you need to do is get your plants growing and that will most likely require more light. If you're able to, you can use sunlight from a window or else buy a better light fixture. If you haven't done it yet, I'd recommend looking at the stickies in the El Natural forum for a low cost method of running a tank.


Well its right next to a south facing window (is that good or bad?). However, it has a very thick curtain blocking the light. Although it isn't directly in front of the window, would moving the curtain assist in any discernible way?



cs_gardener said:


> Another thought is what type of filtration do you have? What is your water change schedule? How much do you feed your fish? If there are too many nutrients in the tank and the plants aren't growing well enough to use them up then there is bound to be an algae or two (or more) that will happily take over. Also, it looks like most of the plants you have are slow to moderate growers. A couple of fast growers like hornwort or Hygrophila difformis would help take up the nutrients better. Anything you do though will most likely require better light.


I have a pennplax power filter (not a wheel variety). Water change at least 25% (usually more) at least once every two weeks. I don't measure how much i feed them so i don't know exactly. I probably should measure how long it takes them to eat all of the food. From my understanding fast growers all require large amounts of light (3 wpg at least), which is well beyond my means. Although I may be able to scrounge up enough cash for maybe 2 wpg system or something, although i find it extremely annoying that 30" lights are rarer than say 36", giving me far less options (read: more expensive options).


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

Fast growing plants are by no means all high light. Ceratophyllum demersum (hornwort) grows well even in lower light. The easier Hygrophilas like H difformis and H polysperma grow quickly in moderate light of about 2 wpg. Have you checked the Plantfinder out? It's in the orange bar at the top of the page toward the left side. You can sort by light levels, ease of growth, etc. to make finding appropriate plants easier. There's also a lot of information about growth habits and the plants' needs.

Sunlight can be a big help. I have a tank directly in front of a south-facing window and I use venetian blinds to adjust how much light the tank gets depending on the weather and time of year. It's helped my plants in there immensely. You might want to try opening the curtain at least part way so you can take advantage of the sunlight. It's much cheaper than buying a new light fixture, but you do need to keep a close eye on things to make sure it's not too much light. When I first set up the tank I got some algae near the back of the tank but things settled down, the plants took off, and I got the algae under control with applications of hydrogen peroxide. I usually only let sunlight directly in the tank during winter, the rest of the year I angle the blinds so it's bright but not directly hitting the tank.

I know it can be hard finding good light fixtures. You might want to look into something like the Nova T5 fixtures, they actually get more light into the tank than compact fluorescent fixtures because they have individual reflectors for each bulb, so you need fewer watts to get good light.


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## Capt. Colton (Aug 22, 2008)

taz,
some questions...
how long has the tank been set up?
some algae is a part of the 'settling in' period. 

How long is your light on? I understand that it is low light, however, if your photoperiod, or light schedule is too long it could cause algae, even if the tank has only low light levels.

How often do you change water, how often do you feed?


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## taz81 (Jul 13, 2009)

Its been set up for a couple months now since its been cycled. 

My light is on from exactly when I turn it on to exactly when I turn it off. Really though I haven't kept track. I never leave it on all night or anything, but i still have it on probably too long. Once I get my new light I will definitely monitoring the light more.

I change 25-30+% every 2 weeks. I feed once a day, enough to last the fish like 2 minutes. I was feeding more, but i'm trying to cut down a bit atm.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

As I mentioned on the other thread, not sure why you're heading for 130w of lighting.

You could use a boost from what you have right now, no doubt. Something around the range of 1-1.5wpg would be ideal. Use tap water, feed what you need to. Ferts can be done most cheaply through a rich substrate, fish food and tap water. Top it all off with a little Flourish and Flourish Excel if you like.

DIY CO2 is an option if you've got about $10 for yeast, sugar, airline tubing, and a diffuser. We'll assume you've got a couple plastic containers or pop bottles of some sort around. There's many, many guides to doing this. Any kind of tank will appreciate additional CO2; this is an easy way to get it. If you go this route, you can do 2wpg in T8 lighting with Flourish Excel.

A timer wouldn't hurt you; it gets an important variable under better control.

If I can offer one piece of advise to some one new to the hobby it is this; ignore what comes out of the mouths of 90% of people working in fish stores. Verify the rest. There are threads hundreds of pages long on some forums dedicated to bad advice given by LFS's. Employees at big chains are very rarely competent; small LFS's are usually better, especially if you're talking to the owner. All the same, they're trying to sell you something.

-Philosophos


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## joshbye (Jul 19, 2009)

What kind of algae is this by the way? I am seeing the same thing on my tank. It is newly setup, 55 gallon planted tank. I know there is usually some kind of algae bloom while things are balancing out when you set up a new tank so I figure I'd just wait and watch for a couple of weeks. I am interested in figuring out what this is though. At first I thought it was black brush but now I think it might just be some sort of fuzz algae.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

So far you have gotten advice that is helpful but it will take you a long time to see any changes. That's because you don't have CO2. Make a DIY yeast system for maybe $2.

What the CO2 will do is it will speed up everything that happens in the tank. With no-CO2 tanks you have to wait many weeks to see an improvement. If you have the algae already there is little to no chance to see a change in a non-CO2 tank. Meaning it will be very slow. Think 4-8 months. 

Your water changes once every 2 weeks are not nearly enough. The tank is small. Graduate student or not you can find 2 min every other day to change 1 gallon. Yes, 1 gallon every other day. Small but frequent water changes are the best thing you can do when fighting algae.

Amano shrimp will help but their number has to correspond to the amount of algae you have. If the algae is visible then you need a lot of Amano shrimp. Depending on your infestation you should start with at least 20 to see a visible change.

The light - if you can get a more powerful light then do so. And turn it on only for 2-3 hours a day in the middle of the day. The rest should be ambient light or no light.

The confusion in this hobby comes from people neglecting the basics - CO2, light, water changes. Forget your master test kit, take care of the basics and you will do well.

--Nikolay


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## Dryn (Sep 6, 2007)

I honestly didn't read all of the other posts, just yours and one or two others. I've been doing the planted tank thing for several years and like many other hobbyists, I found a lot of conflicting data too. However, I've made a hobby of collecting, reading, and learning everything I can about planted aquariums. Plus, I'm a certified horticulturalist (it helps). There are literally dozens of ways to create a planted aquarium and ten times that many ways to deal with any problems... But all things being equal, there really is a heart of the matter, and no matter how you decide to deal with your tank, I think this "KEY" will help.

Aquatic plants need three things: light, CO2, and nutrients. 
Algae need the same three things!

Every one of these requirements are balanced by the other two. The more light you have, the more CO2 you'll need, the more nutrients, etc. By limiting one, you create an excess of the others. So, if you don't have a lot of light, you won't need a lot of CO2, and most importantly, you won't need a lot of nutrients! This is always true. The best thing for a beginner to do is to limit those nutrients. 

Don't add any nutrients to your water (use substrate tablets or soil-based substrate) and limit your addition of fish foods (only what they'll eat in a few minutes and take out any remainder). Let your tank adapt for a few weeks while the plants strip out all of the water column nutrients and the algae will go down. Once you are able to control the algae, slowly increase the amount of nutrients you add to the tank (including fish food!) until the plants grow as fast as they can... you'll know because the algae will come back.

I hope this helps...


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## Dryn (Sep 6, 2007)

I sounded a bit rude about not reading the other posts, I'm sorry, I'm just limited on time...

I wanted to add:

In high tech tanks, light is maximized (4wpg+) and CO2 is injected at optimal levels (25-30ppm). This leaves only nutrients to be added to keep plant growth higher than algae growth. In these tanks, careful monitoring and adding of nutrients is very, very important. Growth is finominal!

In low-tech tanks, light is minimalized, CO2 is minimalized, and nutrients are basically nominal - only fish waste/food add nutrients. These plants grow very slowly, but as long as the balance is maintained they will be successful.

In every case of algae outbreaks, there is a deficiency somewhere. The lights could be dimmer (they'll always slowly grow less potent) the CO2 could have failed (in a high-growth tank) or the nutrient requirement has diminished.

Nutrient requirement is not static. For example, when you cut your plants they won't need ferts until they start growing again and then they'll need more than normal and eventually growth will slow down and they'll need somewhat less nutrients. If the light is increased or CO2 is increased, they'll need more nutrients to keep from becoming deficient.

We'll always have to watch our tanks. If you trim or after the plants stop growing so fast, cut back on the nutrients. If the plants show deficeincy add some more! The best nutrients are substrate based, buy some or make your own, there are plently of threads on how...

The hardest part of limiting algae is finding that nutrient level. Simply watch the plants! Algae means too much, no growth means too little.

I really hope this helps without making you frustrated. Just remember we've all been where you are before and learning how to be successful is really what this hobby is about. If it was easy, every aquarium hobbyist would have a planted aquarium, and not just a select few!


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## taz81 (Jul 13, 2009)

The few the proud the planters...

At any rate I was surprised by the sudden responses out of no where, but happy to see them none the less. Here are updates on what I have done:

1. Trimmed all my plants with bad infections of black brush algae (at least i think thats what it was).
2. put in more plants, including high growth wisteria (?). 
3. Put in DIY CO2
4. Dose Flourish Excel daily
5. Put in my 130 W lighting (sorry, but it was the cheapest option to increase light).
6. Watched as my plants started growing more 
I have very very little of the black brush algae left. One of my plants (one on the log) has what I assume is green spot algae, since day one. The new leaves seem to be doing better though, and it hasn't transferred to any other plant. I am getting a dusting of green on my rock/wood so I probobly have a new deficiency now I hope to resolve through fertz (crosses fingers).


Ok I've also purchased the following although they haven't arrived yet: 
Aqua Soil + Power Sand Special, Dry Fertz from Rex Grigg (yes I know I shouldn't dose until a month or two after installing the Aqua Soil), a drop checker, a timed powerstrip for the lights, various mosses, Rotala Sp. Green, and Staurogyne Sp. "porto velho".

So basically I'm going to either clear up my algae issues, or, far more likely, turn my whole tank into an algae farm.

Here's hopin for good luck!

Nick


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

130 watts is a LOT of light on a 29 (I think I remember that being the size you stated). You will probably get some algae, but I'd imagine that your plants, given enough CO2 and fertz, will be awesome. If algae gets out of hand and you have room for more critters, you might toss in some black mollies; they're aglae-eatin' machines.


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## Vadimshevchuk (Jul 5, 2009)

well for your light ixture i would look on ebay. I just bought a current 30" 1x 65w for 20 bucks. plus 15 shipping but its better then paying 80...

http://cgi.ebay.com/coralife-aquali...in_0?hash=item4147f60fbc&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

the link above is 25 bucks for 32w.. 1wpg

http://cgi.ebay.com/Coralife-30-Inc...in_0?hash=item2ea6f6d625&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

this one is 65w

but its only 15 bucks but it still has 3 days left...

i bought this kind of fixture... used

http://cgi.ebay.com/Current-30-1-x-...in_0?hash=item518bb11b37&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14


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## taz81 (Jul 13, 2009)

Thank you Vadimshevchuk and mudboots. Just to be clear I DID end up getting the 130w system (has two switches for the two 65W lights) for about $80 with shipping (thank you thatpetplace.com). Its not the best spectrum but will fit my needs until I can afford new bulbs. 

I'm thinking about getting 10k/6.7k (or is the standard 6.5k?) bulbs. Is that a good combo for plants?


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Your BBA is a result of too much light for the CO2 levels. The GSA tends to go away with elevated PO4 levels.

I'm dosing full speed on 3 tanks that have only had ADA AS in them between a couple months and a few days. They're doing just fine, I have fish spawning in them with healthy, happy plants. Water changes are intense for the newer planted one, the other two get it every 1-3 weeks.

Don't worry about your spectrum, do what looks good. 65w of any fluorescent commonly sold will keep your tank running just fine, and provide more than enough PAR for your plants. The only exception might be ground cover getting blotted out by high growth, which becomes an issue of spread more than wattage.

-Philosophos


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## taz81 (Jul 13, 2009)

Well I have increased my CO2 levels since I was having teh bad infection of the BBA? (Black beard algae or something?). I'm getting fertz from Rex, so hopefully then the GSA will go away once i start dosing. 

How long did you wait to put your fish back into a tank once you added ADA Aqua Soil?


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## taz81 (Jul 13, 2009)

what the foodge is PAR?


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

I put Apistogramma hongsloi and Nannostomus marginatu plus some otocinclus affinis in to a 28 gal bowfront on the very same day that the ADA AAS went in, with 50% water changes every day or two there after. It's been a few days now, the water is clear, the female apisto has just spawned, the pencil fish are healthy (a bit of dither stress now and then), and the oto's are swimming around happy.

Another tank had some albino Ancistrus spp. and a blackskirt tetra added the same day with no problems, yet another tank that was the original test had no problem with ghost shrimp. Less than a month after getting the aquasoil in, some earlier spawned hongsloi fry went in to this tank, and they're growing fast.

There's even a beta that got some in her little 1 gal acrylic sitting beside me right now. No problems with adding right away.

I'd say don't wait. Do frequent water changes, maybe even fill the tank up and do a 75% or so water change just before adding the fish. If apistos can handle it, most other soft water fish should be fine.

PAR stands for Photosynthetically Active Radiation. This is the spectrum of light that causes photosynthesis. Wikipedia has a good article on it to start from.

-Philosophos


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

Lighting can be very complex if you scratch the surface...but this is technical but still a help in understanding it:

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html


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## taz81 (Jul 13, 2009)

Ooooooo I think otos are my most sensative fish. maybe I can get away with putting them in relatively quickly.

Now whats "dither stress"?

I swear to god if this plant uproots one more time I will let the HOB filter have it!


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

dither stress = my female apisto is psychotic, so she beats on the pencil fish and everything else in sight. They're slow learners.

-Philosophos


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## taz81 (Jul 13, 2009)

well thats not nice at all of your apisto...you should give her a stern talking to! Ammonia or no ammonia...that is just unnacceptable behavior!

At any rate, thanks for the info! Its been really helpful


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