# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Diatom Filters



## George Willms (Jul 28, 2004)

To Anyone who's used a diatom filter: Did you use the earth from an lfs or did you buy from a pool store? Is it possible that the earth from the pool store might be contaminated with something that could leach into the system, specifically nitrates or phosphates? One of my co-workers has a tank at home, he had a huge nitrate problem, which wound up coming from his water softener, so he got that under control and now has a phosphate problem. His water tests at 0.5 or less ppm for phosphate with or without being run through the softener, but is off the charts in his tank. The only think I could think of is that he uses earth from a pool store in his diatom filter and that it might be coming from there? Any ideas or previous experiences? Thanks

George


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## George Willms (Jul 28, 2004)

To Anyone who's used a diatom filter: Did you use the earth from an lfs or did you buy from a pool store? Is it possible that the earth from the pool store might be contaminated with something that could leach into the system, specifically nitrates or phosphates? One of my co-workers has a tank at home, he had a huge nitrate problem, which wound up coming from his water softener, so he got that under control and now has a phosphate problem. His water tests at 0.5 or less ppm for phosphate with or without being run through the softener, but is off the charts in his tank. The only think I could think of is that he uses earth from a pool store in his diatom filter and that it might be coming from there? Any ideas or previous experiences? Thanks

George


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## Ron Nelson (Apr 2, 2003)

There is a article posted here using vortex diatom earth from a pool store so I doubt that is the problem. How often and how much does he feed?


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

???? His water softener was the source of his nitrates? How? I'm not saying it isn't possible, I really would like to know.

How often does he change his water? And I'd be curious about his feeding habits also. If the phosphate isn't in his tap water, the usual source for excess phosphate would be overfeeding.

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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

I too would like to know how a water softener would add either nitrates or phosphates. Every water softener that I have ever seen uses either sodium chloride (salt) or potassium chloride to soften the water. Neither of these chemicals contains any measurable amounts of nitrates or phosphates. I really think that your co-worker needs to look at other sources of these items.

And it makes me wonder how often he is running a diatom filter. Any why?

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## George Willms (Jul 28, 2004)

He ran the water softener and tested for nitrates, which he had at around 20 ppm, he turned the water softener off and tested for nitrates and voila, 2 ppm nitrates. It didn't seem unlikely to me because I had heard of people using salt mixes that were contaminated with nitrates and phosphates, especially for marine use, so I just figured, cheaper salt, more chance of nitrates. They do weekly water changes of 20%. He says that he feeds and the food is gone within 2 minutes, and only once a day. 

As to how often he was running the diatom: it used to be like every 2 days because that was how fast his water turned green. We got his nitrates under control, and he started to use it less, he says now like once a week because his water starts to get cloudy. Nitrates are low, and now his phosphates are high. And I mean HIGH. I tested his water and it was over 10 ppm, I did a 10% dilution and it was still reading off my chart. I've been at a loss as to how to further help him. Thanks guys.

George


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Well if his water softener was/is putting out water high in nitrates and/or phosphates I would change where I get the salt, and then have the unit checked out. You can't get a much cheaper item that water softener salt. Marine salt costs a bunch more than water softener salt. And even then marine salt mixes are normally VERY low in nitrates and phosphates.

He really needs to cure the problem and not treat the symptom.

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## George Willms (Jul 28, 2004)

The phosphates are not coming from his water though. That's why I thought the earth. And in my opinion there's not much in the way of standards on water softening salts, just as long as they make the water softer and don't add anything toxic. I told him to invest in an R.O. if he wants to eliminate this fluctuation of his water. He's got well water, not sure if that makes much of a difference though. I've never dealt with it before.

George


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

George, do you know what his water parameters are before they go through the softener? He may very well be better off just to use water from an untreated faucet. On the other hand--well water contaminated with nitrates or phosphate wouldn't be that unusual in many places, so an R/O unit might be the answer for him if that's the case. Based on what you say, there certainly wouldn't be any harm in trying a better grade of DE. I have a Whisper Diatomagic, myself, and only use the Whisper DE packets. I probably don't use it more than once or twice in six months, if that, so it's not expensive, and at least I know what I'm getting. Diatom filters are a handy tool, and very useful when you need them, but I think Rex has a point; your friend needs to concentrate on finding and fixing the problems in his tank instead of relying on the diatom filter so often to polish his water.

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## George Willms (Jul 28, 2004)

His untreated tap water has very low levels of nitrates and phosphates. Softened water has about 20 ppm Nitrate and very low phosphates. That is why I was wondering if it could possibly be coming from the earth. He knows about not using it so much and that is why we're trying to find out where the phosphates are coming from. If we can eliminate these excess nutrients he'll have less of a problem with cloudy water. This he knows, so we're trying to find the source.

Also, how quickly can water parameters from well water change? Is it common to have wide fluctuations in water quality or composition from month to month or even week to week with well water?

George

[This message was edited by George Willms on Thu July 10 2003 at 11:02 AM.]


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

That would depend on a lot of things, but yes, it's certainly possible; seasonal increases in things like fertilizer runoff, for example, could make a big difference, as well as changes in the water table as a result of variations in rainfall, increased irrigation, etc. -although I would guess that would be the exception rather than the rule. Assuming the well is deep enough, I think most are pretty stable.

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## George Willms (Jul 28, 2004)

Found out the source of his phosphates. It was coming from the DE. He ran the DE in a bucket he had filled with water. Phosphate before the filter was run: 0 After the filter was run: greater than 5 ppm! I had a feeling it was coming from there!

George


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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

That would be very bad for pools too. Algae is a big problem for pool owners, especially those who don't use chlorine for sanitation. I will have to check my DE to see if there is any phosphate in it.

Contaminated salt is very bad for the water softener too. I had a salt service on my first water softener, and they used cheap rock salt. The dirt really made a mess in the softener, and reduced it softening capacity. With my second softener, I bought my own salt, which was actually marine salt. It worked much better, and had no dirt in it.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Yere is the best piece of advise I can suggest: Ditch the crap diatom with the carcenogenic earth and buy a UV clairifier!


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