# Sticky  Color Temperature



## finfollower

hey all, 
I'm just wondering if I need to get different lighting. Right now I'm using 2 13W CF bulbs that have a color temp. of 2670K. I know that 5500K is the closest spectrum to natural sunlight, but do I need to change my bulbs to something that's around 5500K or can I keep using the ones that I am using now?


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## John N.

The lowest I ever used was around 4000k. The light did an okay job at growing my plants. But once I bumped it up to 6500k I noticed a growth difference, not to mention the plants just looked better under this spectrum. 

Are you using the screw in variety? If so, it shouldn't be too hard to walk over to walmart and pick up some 6500k bulbs. In my opinion, anything under 4000k doesn't look good, and doesn't grow plants well. I don't know the exact science why that is, but it is what it is. 

-John N.


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## finfollower

yep, i'm using the screw inu CF spiral bulbs.


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## Newt

Lighting for a planted tank should not be chosen on color temp alone. It is true that 'full spectrum' bulbs are referred to as bulbs between 5000 Kelvin (K) and 6500 K and are best for planted tanks. Yet this does not indicate what type of light (wavelength in nanometers) the bulb is actually emitting. If you want both good leaf development/growth (blue light) and stem elongation (red light), you need light in both the blue and red spectra for photosynthesis.

You need a mix of blue and red for your plants, and green for you (brightness as perceived by humans). If your lighting looks extremely bright and your plants seem ultra-green, it means that you have lighting that outputs strongly in the green spectrum. Do not equate this with good lighting for your plants, because plants don't use light in the green spectrum for photosynthesis.

For green plants the lighting peaks that are most important:
chlorophyll-a: 430nm/662nm 
chlorophyll-b: 453nm/642nm 
carotenoids: 449nm/475nm 
Red pigmented plants use more light in the blue area of the spectrum.

Beyond choosing lighting that is optimal for photosynthesis, as above, you should choose lighting with the color temperature that best suits the aesthetic goals of your tank. So, don't obsess about color temperature beyond how you want your tank to look. From a color temperature standpoint, blue-colored light will enhance blues in your fish. Green-colored light will make the tank look bright to humans and enhance the green color of your plants. Red-colored light will enhance the reds in your fish, and any red plants. If your lighting looks extremely bright and your plants seem ultra-green, it means that you have lighting that outputs strongly in the green spectrum.

I have attached some jpg's to help understand lighting and how plants react to it. I have found it best to provide a mix of lighting to a planted tank. The GroLux bulb is perhaps the best plant bulb available but it has very little green light so the visual effects of your tank will look dim and purplish. Yet if you add some other lighting such as a Philips 6500K the effect is more pleasing to the eye and still beneficial to the plants.


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## finfollower

wow, thanks a lot for the info newt. I've never really thought of the aesthetic part of the lighting until I changed my bulbs recently. I liked the 2760K a lotbetter than the 6700K, but it wasn't as beneficial for my plants. What about mixing the two bulbs, what temperature would my lighting be rated at or would it still remain the same?


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## Newt

I just scanned some new graphs that may help understand more:


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## hedson_25

hello newt, i`m so interested in these theme, lighting, so you said that the best option are gro lux, could you tell me the nm and ºk of these fluorecent bulbs, and with what combination are they the best for planted tanks?


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## Newt

I use a 40 watt grolux standard and a 40 watt grolux wide spectrum (both linear fluorescent) and (2) 55 watt Philips PL-L 950 CF. The Grolux standard has no kelvin rating. The wide spectrum is 3400K and 89 CRI. The Philips CF are 5000K and 91 CRI. Nanometers as displayed on attached spectral graphs:


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## Newt

Seems this site doesnt like the size of my pdf file for the grolux graphs. I will see if I can reduce it.


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## DJKronik57

So are true actinic bulbs beneficial for planted tanks or not? 420nm is near but not inside any of those ranges you gave for essential plant functions. What about 10,000K?


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## allaboutplants

Anyone use 10,000K? I saw the comparison pics for the 9325K and 6700K and plants do have more green with the 6700K, but the reds and orange look great under 9325K. Anyone running 10K and how is it?

Thanks


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## ruki

Nice topic! Two quick items:

(1) The previously posted color-temperature-plant-pigment graph is very, very useful! Everyone should keep a copy of this. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...r-temperature-plant-pigments.gif?d=1149132070

(2) The Kelvins number for flurescent tubes, by itself, is almost too much of an approximation to be useful. The number is supposed to represent radiation discharge from a heated object. If this was the case, it would have some sort bell shaped curve where the peak occured at the associated light wavelength for that temperature. Due to the laws of physics of how fluorescent tubes work, phosphor atoms lining the glass tube release photons at very specific frequencies, which do not at all generate a smooth curve one should expect with a Kelvins number. Different phosphors have different spectral emission patterns.

*Application*
Each manufacturer/model tube is different. It's Kelvins number just means that there is a strong emission line at that frequency. Get the emission chart for that tube. Compare your tube's chart against the color-temperature-plant-pigment graph. Tube emission peaks not in the plant graph are ignored by your plants. The more the tube phosphors emission peaks conform to the plant graph, the more useful the tube is to your plant.

*Examples*
Q: So are true actinic bulbs beneficial for planted tanks or not?

A: Let's look at the chart. 420 is where the peak starts to rise for several values. This means that there will be some useful light, but it won't be optimal. (Kinda makes sense since Actinic is optimized for marine corals and not plants in general.) Another tube selection will provide much more benefit. With the cost of actinic tubes, it's probably a waste of money for a plant tank unless you want to show off some of those new glowlight anios.

Q: 420nm is near but not inside any of those ranges you (Nate's earlier post) gave for essential plant functions.

A: Let's do a sanity check on those numbers and what they mean against the chart:


> For green plants the lighting peaks that are most important:
> chlorophyll-a: 430nm/662nm
> chlorophyll-b: 453nm/642nm
> carotenoids: 449nm/475nm


The above numbers do identify the peaks. Therefore, same conclusion as before.

Q: What about 10,000K?

A: Each model of a 10,000K tube has a different emission spectrum. Obtain the spectrum chart for the particular manufactured bulb and see how the peaks line up to get your answer.


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## Newt

I believe that a bulbs kelvin color temp is determined by the color the tube appears to be (what color the bulb is) not any of the emissions through the visible spectrum it emits.


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## John N.

allaboutplants said:



> Anyone use 10,000K? I saw the comparison pics for the 9325K and 6700K and plants do have more green with the 6700K, but the reds and orange look great under 9325K. Anyone running 10K and how is it?
> 
> Thanks


You guys got a great discussion going on here. Great job Newt in explaining things graphically and verbally. I'll leave the "meat" alone, but I'll just answer this quick question. I'm running a GE 9325K with a 10000k bulb. In terms of looks, it balances out the pink hue, and also appears very white. It's different, and I like it. In terms of plant benefits. The plants couldn't be happier, growing rapidly and pearling daily.

-John N.


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## Newt

Thanks, John N.

The GE 9325 bulb is an enigma of sorts. The bulb will look pink, yet it has a blue hue to it when shining into water. It only has a 67 CRI. A lot of people like it. I used them for awhile but have switched to Philips PL-L 950s, a whiter light with a 91 CRI and less $$$$$.

Attached is the spectral output for the GE 9325K. You will notice that the graph is depicted in relative power. This means compared to the highest spectral peak = 100% and everything else is, well, relative.

The 6700K bulb is probably a Coralife bulb and they have a huge green spike. See attachment for this bulb.


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## ruki

Newt said:


> I believe that a bulbs kelvin color temp is determined by the color the tube appears to be (what color the bulb is) not any of the emissions through the visible spectrum it emits.


You may wish to rephrase that, I think this was a typo on your part though. (Your phrasing runs counter to the fact that a bulb appears to be a color becasue it emits light, which happens to be photons with colors that correspond to all the emission lines demonstrated in its spectral chart.) 

We don't see the spikes without a prism/diffraction grating because the perceived color of the tube is a result of how the human brain processes (color balancing and averaging) the information after the eye senses it (with red, blue and green receptors). So, when you look at the spectral chart of a bulb and group the red, green and blue spikes together you can get an idea of how the brain will color balance and average them.

Different spectral emission patterns can produce very similarly colored bulbs though.


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## kdawg7990

ya what about the 10,000K bulbs which is better 6500K or 10,000K because those seem to be the standard


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## Newt

Depends on what you want your tank to look like. The 10000K will have a more bluish hue to the human eye. It will also have less red emissions emitted (visible spectrum) which help with stem elongation. A lot of people like the 10000K for planted tanks as the blue emissions stimulate photosynthesis.


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## ruki

10,000K gives a really bright, intense look. That is favorable for some designs. It also works well with certain colors of fish.


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## DJKronik57

So has anyone tried an 8000K bulb? I know ADA makes them but I don't have that much cash laying around (i.e. I'd have to buy a totally new fixture because of the pin arrangement. Stupid competing standards), but I found out that All Glass makes an 8000K 55/65W bulb that fits into my Coralife fixture. I've heard 8000K is "optimal" and if ADA uses it there has to be some benefit, even if it is just in viewing the tank.

Here's a link to the Coralife bulb and light output graph (looks like it lines up with the earlier mentioned wavelengths needed for plants):

http://www.all-glass.com/products/lighting/lighting.html

Oh and, anyone know what 55/65W means? How is it both?


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## caymandiver75

DJKronik57 said:


> So has anyone tried an 8000K bulb? I know ADA makes them but I don't have that much cash laying around (i.e. I'd have to buy a totally new fixture because of the pin arrangement. Stupid competing standards), but I found out that All Glass makes an 8000K 55/65W bulb that fits into my Coralife fixture. I've heard 8000K is "optimal" and if ADA uses it there has to be some benefit, even if it is just in viewing the tank.
> 
> Here's a link to the Coralife bulb and light output graph (looks like it lines up with the earlier mentioned wavelengths needed for plants):
> 
> All-Glass Aquarium - Aquarium Lighting
> 
> Oh and, anyone know what 55/65W means? How is it both?


I currently have the 8000k CF bulbs in my All-Glass lighting. It looks good, but i'm not impressed with how washed out it makes the reds in fish. I just ordered some GE 9325 bulbs today, so hopefully I'll be happy with them.


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## gnatster

One way to look at the Kelvin figure is that it is a "sum" of the various wavelengths the bulb produces. Just as there are many ways to reach a total "sum" when adding a multitude of numbers the same Kelvin rating for various bulbs can have different spectral peaks. 

With this in mind just because bulb A is 10,000K does not mean it will have the same spectrum as bulb B, also rated at 10,000K. Nor will both bulbs give the tank the same look.


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## DJKronik57

Thanks for your picture and feedback caymandiver! I agree that any one color temerature will have its benefits and drawbacks, and that mixing color temperatures is probably the best way to go in terms of looks and plant productivity.

The 8000K All-Glass does look pretty nice though, not too blue. Has anyone mixed this with a Coralife 6700K bulb? Trying to decide what the best combination would be. 9325K and 8000K seem like it would wash out the greens of the plants, since both tend to have large red and blue outputs and very little green. The GE 9325K bulbs I have did bring out the reds in the fish like no other bulb though. Post some pictures when you get the 9325K bulbs, I'd love to see them mixed if you have a dual bulb fixture!

Gnatster: Point taken, I was refering to the spectral output though, not the color temperature, i.e. the spectral output of the All Glass matches up with the most useful outputs for photosynthesis (and I'm assuming the ADA bulb comes pretty close as well, Amano wouldn't have it any other way).


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## mousky

I vote this thread as a sticky.

All this time I have been going off colour temperature alone, now with the help of you guys I will look more closely at the graphs on the box - Thank you


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## Rattail

Now this is one area I am really battling with.

Please tell me: is there a real difference between daylight Flourescent tubes one buys at the light shop and flourescent tubes one buys at an aquatic shop (LFS).

In South Africa, we pay a fortune for specialised aquarium tubes, so I'd be only too happy if "normal" daylight flourescent tubes will work as well. 

I am told by the lady at the light shop that a normal Osram 3foot "daylight" fluorescent tube pushes out about 1500 at around 30 (something Watt. These will cost me R9.00 ($1.30) as opposed to between R110 and R180 for a Growlux at a LFS. (So you see my dilemma...)

(I am setting up a 1200mmx450mmx600mm (deep) aquarium) and intend using plants requiring moderate light).

Please help?


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## standoyo

Not sure about Osrams but I'm using Phillips 865's which does the job at a fraction of the cost. Plants are pearling, reds are red, greens are green and blues look brilliant. Nothing fake looking and best of all my camera white balance gets it right.


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## Skyfish

standoyo said:


> Not sure about Osrams but I'm using Phillips 865's which does the job at a fraction of the cost. Plants are pearling, reds are red, greens are green and blues look brilliant. Nothing fake looking and best of all my camera white balance gets it right.


Standoyo do you have the exact model number stated on the bulb? I would like to try this one.

Cheers!


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## gf225

Great thread.

I've used T8 tubes from 3000K (Dennerle Trocal) upto a claimed 18000K (Hagen Aqua Glo). I had best results in terms of growth and attractiveness from 6500K that has 4 spectral peaks (Interpet Daylight Plus). They also had the greatest lumen rating (1300 for 24" 18w) compared to the Sylvania Activa 172 (6500K, CRI 98, 1000 lumen).

As discussed colour temp. and spectrums are independent. Using the Interpet and Sylvania 6500Ks as an example, the Sylvania appeared greener so suspect less effective for plant growth than the Interpet.

One thing I will say is that colour temps, spectrums etc. are less important the more physical qty. of light we have. Plants, IME can adapt to very different spectrums quite well so I now choose what suits my taste (rendition wise) and budget.

Being from the UK I don't have access the the popular GE 9235K and 10000K bulbs. Are these PC T5?

I'd like to try out the ADA 8000K T8s but they're 20mm shorter than the standard 18/20w T8 tubes so won't fit my unit.


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## ruki

gnatster said:


> One way to look at the Kelvin figure is that it is a "sum" of the various wavelengths the bulb produces. Just as there are many ways to reach a total "sum" when adding a multitude of numbers the same Kelvin rating for various bulbs can have different spectral peaks.


From a statistical perspective it is an average, which is the sum you mentioned divided by the number of data points (or emission spikes).



> With this in mind just because bulb A is 10,000K does not mean it will have the same spectrum as bulb B, also rated at 10,000K. Nor will both bulbs give the tank the same look.


Yes. This is one of the main weaknesses of the degree K rating of the bulb. Bulb makers should really include a spectrum chart on all bulbs that they give degree K ratings for.


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## ruki

Rattail said:


> Now this is one area I am really battling with.
> 
> Please tell me: is there a real difference between daylight Flourescent tubes one buys at the light shop and flourescent tubes one buys at an aquatic shop (LFS).


The detailed answer is that all bulbs are different.

The not-so-detailed answer is that 5000K ("daylight") and 6500K ("full spectrum") bulbs at lighting stores will do a good enough job, especially when considering the high cost of high end speciality aquatic plant bulbs.

For advanced uses such as photography and show tanks, some of the specifically mentioned bulbs on this thread do a better job, but are usually more expensive than the "generic" 500K and 6500K bulbs.


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## Newt

standoyo said:


> Not sure about Osrams but I'm using Phillips 865's which does the job at a fraction of the cost. Plants are pearling, reds are red, greens are green and blues look brilliant. Nothing fake looking and best of all my camera white balance gets it right.


Try the Philips PL-L 950. They have a CRI of 92 and are 5000K - very white in appearence. Less green and more red than the 865s. The 865 graph is directly above the 950 graph. see attachment:

Sorry for the poor quality of the attachment. I had to scan it on a low dpi setting to get the size small enough for this site to accept it. I have lots of trouble with only this site accepting attachments because of the size. Does anyone know why????


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## jmanrow

caymandiver75 said:


> I currently have the 8000k CF bulbs in my All-Glass lighting. It looks good, but i'm not impressed with how washed out it makes the reds in fish. I just ordered some GE 9325 bulbs today, so hopefully I'll be happy with them.


I have used the regular T8 All-glass fluorescent 8000k tubes, and have had very good plant growth. Does anyone know the CRI on these?


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## jmanrow

I have been searching for an 8000k T5 (48", 54W) for use on seagrasses in a saltwater planted tank. Any clues to who makes one?


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## caymandiver75

I've had the 9325 GE's now for a few months and love them! Excellent color and great plant growth.


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## rhodophyta

DJKronik57 said:


> ....
> 
> Oh and, anyone know what 55/65W means? How is it both?


I think that might mean it REPLACES a 55 or a 65 watt bulb. I would like an explanation since it can't be both.


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## rhodophyta

I have several 10000 K bulbs on my plants. I notice that S. rivularis gets red under the 10000 K and is green in the same tank under a fixture with fl. plant lights. The Ammania is intensely red under the 10000 K, but a specimen of it next to the green S. rivularis is much less intense. I also have a few actinic bulbs that came with the fixtures. I will replace them eventually since I think they look too blue. There is also a moonlight, a blue LED "nightlight" for the fish. It looks neat and other than Galaxia swimming in its beam all night it seems to be harmless.


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## bencozzy

rhodophyta said:


> I think that might mean it REPLACES a 55 or a 65 watt bulb. I would like an explanation since it can't be both.


it has to do with how the ballast drives it they are interchangable.


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## Lingonfil

On the first graph posted by Newt, there are two curves representating Chlorofyl a and chlorofyl b. How would I know which plants would require what curve? And doesn't plants among themselves require more different light spectrums then representated buy theese two curves?


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## Newt

The curves on the graph are geared more towards green pigmented plants as red plants do not absorb red light; it is reflected. All plants have both A and B Chlorophyll, the photosynthetic pigment used by plants traps blue and red light but is more efficient with red light at 650 - 675nm. Blue is used at the same rate as red because it is more available. Red plants need to utilize more blue light as the red is not absorbed.

Here is another graph that may help:


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## longhornxtreme

Great thread! I'm looking for a replacement 1x36w PC bulb straight pin. Any suggestions? I can't stand the 6700k bulb that came from AHS, waaaay too green in appearance... Heck, my rasboras hardly look red under it. 

Any suggestions?


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## Newt

Does AHS have a 5500K with a 92 CRI in the 36 watt?

I am using the 5500K in 55 watt. A nice white light and represents colors well.


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## longhornxtreme

They don't post the specs, simply the color temperature, I don't even really know what brand they are... 

Do you know of another resource to order 36 watt PC straight pin connector bulbs?


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## Newt

I took a look and they do. 
Bulb # 11365
Here is a link: http://ahsupply.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&cat=6

They won't let on to the brand but they are decent CF bulbs. Very similar to the Philips PLL950s (they did tell me that they werent Philips). I suspect Sylvania makes them. Oh, and they dont offer spectral output graphs either.

I'm thinking of going linear T5 as you cant get really good CFs with appropriate plant lighting.


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## longhornxtreme

Thanks Newt, I just ordered 1 of the bulbs you said and a 10k bulb for backup. I'll pick the one I like best and keep the other one as a standby!


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## Newt

Please pm about how the 10000K looks and how the plants like them.


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## longhornxtreme

I'll try and remember Newt. I won't have them till end of next week though, and I still have a few more parts to piece together before I have the tank up and running. I've gotta get Co2 and then purchase or trade for plants.


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## hakunamakarla

caymandiver75 said:


> I currently have the 8000k CF bulbs in my All-Glass lighting. It looks good, but i'm not impressed with how washed out it makes the reds in fish. I just ordered some GE 9325 bulbs today, so hopefully I'll be happy with them.


is the lighting on this tank comparable to 10,000k ??


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## hakunamakarla

Newt said:


> Please pm about how the 10000K looks and how the plants like them.


I also want to see what the 10,000k looks like!!! Please ))))))))


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## Newt

I've been running the 55w 5500K high CRI bulbs from ahsupply. I have found that they do not produce pearling nearly as good as the Philips PL-L 950's 5300K 92CRI I had been using. I recently replaced them with (3) T8 bulbs: Philips Aquarelle, Philips ADV850 and an All-Glass 8000K. I have 14 fewer watts but the pearling is tremendous. 

I ordered a miro4 four foot reflector and a Fulham Workhorse 5 ballast from naturallighting.com (good prices) and got 2 cheap shop lights from Home Depot. I will strip the shop lights and use the shells and connector ends with the Fulham ballast and miro4 reflector and place them into an enclosure to run (4) T8's.

BTW, 10,000K are typically more of a marine bulb and the extra blue light emitted will tend to produce more algae growth. If you like the looks then go for it; otherwise lean more toward full spectrum bulbs.


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## Afyounie

For my 20 gal I have been using 2 5500K and 1 actinic. THe actinic balances out the other two, creating a daylight effect. Yet, I was wondering if this was a good idea. The plants grow great, but is there a better combination that I could go with?

Also, I bought a 20" 28W PC strip from coralife. It came with a 10000K/actinic bulb. Should I replace this bulb with the 6700K/10000K bulb?


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## gibbus

I got a new light fixturea 4 tube t5 set and I noticed the bulbs are at 12.5k would these work?


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## btimmer30

I have a 20 gallon tank right now with 60 watt fluorescent lighting. I have 4 bulbs and they are all different color temperatures. i have just decided to lower the amount of light for my aquarium because i'm not dosing enough nutrients and the balance is off. I'd rather just turn off some lights than spend a lot of money on fertilizers. so my question is, what spectrum of bulbs should i be using for now if i want slow plant growth but still healthy, good looking growth? should i use a bulb that helps my plants and a bulb that looks good? any input would be helpful.


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## Newt

btimmer30,
What bulbs do you currently have? Brand/kelvin/wattage and type of fluorecsent


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## btimmer30

i have some hagen glo bulbs, 1 sun glo 4200k, 1 power glo 18000k, 1 life glo 6700k, and 2 all glass aquarium brand bulbs, which seem to have a purplish light. all are 15 watt t8


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## Newt

I have attached the spectral outputs for each of the bulbs you listed.
The SunGlo has good overall spectral output across the visible spectrum but is heavy in the yellow.
The PowerGlo is heavy on the blue, has a large yellow spike and NO red. Plants need red and blue light.
The LifeGlo has a heavy green spike and no red. The green is good for the human eye as far as brightness goes.
The AGA 8000K has appropriate spikes for plant growth but is purplish.

I'd try the SunGlo and a AGA 8000K and see how it looks. This should also provide the appropriate light to stimulate photosynthesis.

SunGlo:









PowerGlo:









LifeGlo:









AGA 8000K:


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## btimmer30

thanks for the help!


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## btimmer30

so what bulbs do you think i should buy when these ones are dead?


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## Newt

Go to Home Depot and get some Philips C50 (Colortone 50) and/or Philips Day Light Delux. I know they make the Delux in a T8.

T8 linear fluorescents should be changed out at least every year. If either end is blackened then the cathode tube is past it's prime and failing. This will result in diminished light output and likely a shift in the spectral output.


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## Bondrake

Newt, do you know what Philips model that "Daylight Delux" retail brand is? In looking for the associated models I found the F32T8/TL950, which is rated at 98 CRI: http://www.bulbs.com/eSpec.aspx?ID=9361&Ref=Light+Bulbs&RefId=14

I've been trying to find spectral info on various fluorescent bulbs. One source I found was this site: http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/aphalo/photobio/lamps.html The guy has been doing research and collected data using spectroradiometers for a lot of common light sources. Newt, I would really like to know how you have been collecting the spectrographic data you've been posting. I'd also like to know if there are any affordable or DIY ways to emulate the functionality of a spectroradiometer... at least that would be suitable for comparative measurements of fluorescent tubes. It would be really cool to have some kind of community effort to get spectrographic measures of commonly used aquarium lighting sources.

Interestingly the researcher I mentioned in the site above collected data for the Philips TLD36W/15 and TLD36W/18. These tubes produce strong red and strong blue light respectively. By his tests, their peak outputs are almost perfectly matched to peak chlorophyll photon receptivity. I found a source for them online here: https://www.bulbs.com/T--8_Linear/35W_--_39W/results.aspx I imagine that if you had a setup with 3 or 4 tubes you could use one each of these and one or two 90+ CRI tubes to achieve a very efficient and visually pleasing setup.


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## Bondrake

Here's the first result I've found for building a spectrophotometer: http://www.rsc.org/Education/EiC/issues/2007Sept/BuildYourOwnSpectrophotometer.asp

And here's a document with some technical detail on fluorescent tube testing: http://www.iaeel.org/iaeel/Archive/Right_Light_Proceedings/Proceedings_body/BOK4/RL4ye.pdf


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## Newt

Several years ago I used the 40 watt T12 lamp. It was a F40DX. They make a T8 version now.








It was a bit green but I used it in conjunction with a GroLux Standard as a dawn/dusk light.
It did balance out the purplish hue of the GroLux fairly well.

Philips is really good about sending spectral output graphs when you contact them thru their 
website in the Contact section. I have a pdf with info on the bulb you're looking for (TLD950) but its too big to post here.


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## RedDelPaPa

Newt said:


> I've been running the 55w 5500K high CRI bulbs from ahsupply. I have found that they do not produce pearling nearly as good as the Philips PL-L 950's 5300K 92CRI I had been using. I recently replaced them with (3) T8 bulbs: Philips Aquarelle, Philips ADV850 and an All-Glass 8000K. I have 14 fewer watts but the pearling is tremendous.
> 
> I ordered a miro4 four foot reflector and a Fulham Workhorse 5 ballast from naturallighting.com (good prices) and got 2 cheap shop lights from Home Depot. I will strip the shop lights and use the shells and connector ends with the Fulham ballast and miro4 reflector and place them into an enclosure to run (4) T8's.
> 
> BTW, 10,000K are typically more of a marine bulb and the extra blue light emitted will tend to produce more algae growth. If you like the looks then go for it; otherwise lean more toward full spectrum bulbs.


Hi Newt,

This particular post of yours caught my attention. I have been using the 4x55 AH supply bright kit with the 5500K bulbs over my co2 injected AG 75 gal for quite some time. Plant growth has been good. However, if there are lamps of similar CRI/color temp that will provide more usable light to plants, I'm interested.

What you said above, can you confirm that for me my ruling out any other changes in your setup that may have resulted in the increased photosynthesis of your plants?

All tank variables the same?
Both sets of lamps well within their usable life?

Thanks,
Red


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## Newt

All other variables are/were the same. I did not use shop lights but rather made a fixture out of 1/2" birch plywood and am using two 38watt Philips aquarelles overdriven and one 54watt T5HO GE Starcoat 5000K.

The Philips PLL950's have changed and they are not as good as the original. Too much green hue in their spectrum now. I suggest using two GE 9325K (good buy at atlantalightbulb.com) and contact Larry at www.naturallighting.com and see if he has a PLL 55W 6500K by Jana-Lites. I bought a 36w for my 10 gal shrimp tank and love the color.


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## RedDelPaPa

Newt said:


> All other variables are/were the same. I did not use shop lights but rather made a fixture out of 1/2" birch plywood and am using two 38watt Philips aquarelles overdriven and one 54watt T5HO GE Starcoat 5000K.
> 
> The Philips PLL950's have changed and they are not as good as the original. Too much green hue in their spectrum now. I suggest using two GE 9325K (good buy at atlantalightbulb.com) and contact Larry at www.naturallighting.com and see if he has a PLL 55W 6500K by Jana-Lites. I bought a 36w for my 10 gal shrimp tank and love the color.


Hi. Thanks for the reply.

Is it your educated opinion that using 2 GE9325K combined with 2 5500K lamps in my 4x55 fixture will promote better plant growth than either alone?


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## Newt

Working knowledge.
I buy and experiment with many bulb brands and types.
I think you will like the effect even though the GE 9325K is only 67 CRI.


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## RedDelPaPa

Newt said:


> Working knowledge.
> I buy and experiment with many bulb brands and types.
> I think you will like the effect even though the GE 9325K is only 67 CRI.


For my taste, there isn't a better look than the high CRI 5500K lamps, but I'm not concerned about that at the moment.

Do you know of any 55w CF lamps with the proper spectral output that produce photosynthesis better than another?

For example, do the 9325's produce better growth than the AHS 5500K's I'm currently using?

The reason I'm concerned about better growth is, my plant tank is a cichlid tank. And if I don't stay on top of it, the fish can and will eat and destroy the plants faster than I can grow them.


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## Newt

Have you read this sticky:http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/lighting/723-9325k-difference.html

AHSupply will not provide spectral graphs for any of their bulbs and wont tell you who manufactured it. Its a big disadvantage when trying to choose which bulb has the most intensity in the proper blue and red regions.

Take a look a these:http://www.1000bulbs.com/Full-Spectrum-55-Watt-4-Pin-2G11-Base-Compact-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs/

I really suggest you contact Larry at Natural Lighting. He is honest and has a good selection of bulbs. The site is a bit difficult to navigate.
Here's one:http://www.naturallighting.com/web/shop.php?crn=695&rn=3187&action=show_detail

Another: http://www.naturallighting.com/web/shop.php?crn=695&rn=3380&action=show_detail


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## RedDelPaPa

Newt said:


> Have you read this sticky:http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/lighting/723-9325k-difference.html
> 
> AHSupply will not provide spectral graphs for any of their bulbs and wont tell you who manufactured it. Its a big disadvantage when trying to choose which bulb has the most intensity in the proper blue and red regions.
> 
> Take a look a these:http://www.1000bulbs.com/Full-Spectrum-55-Watt-4-Pin-2G11-Base-Compact-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs/
> 
> I really suggest you contact Larry at Natural Lighting. He is honest and has a good selection of bulbs. The site is a bit difficult to navigate.
> Here's one:http://www.naturallighting.com/web/shop.php?crn=695&rn=3187&action=show_detail
> 
> Another: http://www.naturallighting.com/web/shop.php?crn=695&rn=3380&action=show_detail


Thanks for the links, but you didn't answer my question. So I'll take that as a you don't know?


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## Newt

I havent used CF bulbs for awhile nor do I know each and every bulb out there. Plus w/o a spectral output graph and normalized plots for all of them there is no way to really tell. Too bad companies dont give PUR info for their bulbs. I have given you a few choices based on what you like and what I think might be better than the AHS CFs. 
I dont suppose you are using CO2 in a cichlid tank. This would increase photosynthesis rate.
I'd stay away from coralife and japanese bulbs as they tend to be heavy in the green spectrum.
You should also change them out annually.
Good Luck.


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## RedDelPaPa

Newt said:


> I havent used CF bulbs for awhile nor do I know each and every bulb out there. Plus w/o a spectral output graph and normalized plots for all of them there is no way to really tell. Too bad companies dont give PUR info for their bulbs. I have given you a few choices based on what you like and what I think might be better than the AHS CFs.
> I dont suppose you are using CO2 in a cichlid tank. This would increase photosynthesis rate.
> I'd stay away from coralife and japanese bulbs as they tend to be heavy in the green spectrum.
> Good Luck.


Thanks for your recommendations. Yes, my cichlid tank is CO2 injected. I'm thinking of picking up some duckweed to help keep their appetites appeased. Where is the best place to buy aquatic plants?


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## faltaren

I need some help. I want a LED ramp that is GOOD for plants and LOOKS good. And i want it in around 8000 K if its possible. 

I want to use cree leds and I have some ideas.
Cree led xp-G cool white and warm white to get the red and the blue spectra. I also want to add some blue xp-E for some blue in the the 475 nm area and moonlight. 

No to the problem, I have 36 led to play with and i want it to LOOK GOOD to. How many of every led do i need to get a good plant light and make it look good? cree.com have all the charts and colortemps. Please help me


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## Morgan

I've been using Marineland's "reef ready" LED s. For about 7 months. Very bright natural color with slight washout since there is little/no red output. Ive realized that some species do awesomely well, while others mediocre. Supposively, stem plants won't elongate without red...not true. Only kompacta has stopped vertical growth. Others like Wisteria,ludwigia, dw hairgrass, dw sagg, and baby tears with crazy growth. 
I switched cuz I was tiring of the "BULBS". The ML doublebright is in the 6000 k range, but not bright enough for my deep tank...so I went with the 10,000k reef-ready. Personally, I will not use flo bulbs again.


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## TropTrea

faltaren said:


> I need some help. I want a LED ramp that is GOOD for plants and LOOKS good. And i want it in around 8000 K if its possible.
> 
> I want to use cree leds and I have some ideas.
> Cree led xp-G cool white and warm white to get the red and the blue spectra. I also want to add some blue xp-E for some blue in the the 475 nm area and moonlight.
> 
> No to the problem, I have 36 led to play with and i want it to LOOK GOOD to. How many of every led do i need to get a good plant light and make it look good? cree.com have all the charts and colortemps. Please help me


I have worked with there LED's extensively on Reefs. Planted fresh water tanks are almost simpler. Looking at 36 LED's I would start with a split between the cool whites (6,500K) and the Neutral Whites ( 4,500K). You would want a couple more of the cools to boast your blues and this gives a nice starting color for most people. so a base would be 16 neutral Whites and 20 Cool whites. But the color temp would be closer to 6,000K. To boast up the color temp to 8,000K I would replace probably 4 or 6 of the Whites with the True Blue 470nm LED's. Replace an equal number of the cool and the neutrals to keep a good balance.

Note you mentioned the warm whites. I would not use these I think they are way too much red and not enough blue. Also keep in mind that the K scale does noit ever reach blue but peaks out in the cyan region of the spectrum, 6,000K and 10,000 K are very white in most peoples eye.


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## ryouexp1

Anyone know where I can order 150W 6500K mogul base metal halite replacement bulbs. I was able to get them last year but now I can find a place with them.


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## ObiQuiet

ryouexp1 said:


> Anyone know where I can order 150W 6500K mogul base metal halite replacement bulbs. I was able to get them last year but now I can find a place with them.


Don't seem to have exactly that, but has a nice search filter:
https://www.1000bulbs.com/search/?q=mogul+halide


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## Red_Rose

I don't know if anyone will see this since the last post here was from 2015 but I'll give it a try. 

Does anyone know where I can find T8 24" bulbs in 8,000K? I use to use a 6,500 and 8,000 for my tank and I never had any algae problems and I liked the looks of the colours in the tank. The 8,000 bulbs I had came with the fixture and since then, I cannot find them anywhere for sale. 

I'm now using a 6,500 and a 10,000. I don't really care much for it and since I started using the 10, I have a bit of algae now even though I haven't changed anything with how I care for the tank.


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