# Amazon swords not doing well...



## molurus73 (Apr 15, 2005)

Hello,
I need help desperately. I have about 1.5 WPG over a 75 gallon right now. Eco Complete is my substrate of choice. I currently do not have CO2 and don't plan on it anytime soon. My swords started off about 10" tall when I got them. They have grown to about 14-16" with turface mvp substrate and light differing from .5 to 3.5 to .5 WPG. They are now settled in the Eco and 1.5 WPG and are looking aweful. They look like they are melting away. You can see the veins that make up the leaves but the green part is going away. Not on all leaves just about 25% so far. I have changed my setup plans from high light to low light and am staying that way. I know I need to look into crypts and java ferns and anubias and other low light plants, but should I just give these to someone who has a higher light setup? Will these swords survive and thrive with the level of lighting I have? I am looking into using maybe some Flourish and Flourish Excel if that would help. I am kind of lost here. This live plant deal can make a smart person feel real dumb sometimes. Please help me feel not so dumb. Thanks, Jim


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## JeffB (Mar 24, 2005)

What are you using for fertilizer, if you are not feeding your plants there is the problem.


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## molurus73 (Apr 15, 2005)

That could be the problem. I am not currently fertilizing at all, but I was under the impression that swords got most of their nutrients through the soil and I thought Eco was supposed to supply what was needed. I have also read that a low light tank should not need fertilizing. Maybe my research is a bit skewed. What would you suggest? Should I buy ferts in bulk or stick with a little Flourish and whatnot. I just want a tank where my fish can be fat and happy that has a lot of beautiful plants as well.


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## mlfishman (Apr 4, 2005)

*excel*

That flourish excel will help a bunch and you def need to start dosing Nitrates & Phosphates, but much less then someone with co2 and high light. According to tom barr (one of the plant gurus on here)you can still grow these plants, just slower. I have never tried this so I dont know, I am just passing on what I Read hear. I beleive there is a post on here on running a low light, no co2 tank with flourish excel. Try doing a search.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Molurus... You need to add ferts to a low light setup, just not as much as a higher light setup. With swords being heavy root feeders I would suggest sticking a root tab directly under the plant, even with Eco.

Amazon swords prefer a little higher light (2WPG) and C02 injection. They will do ok with the light you have now and adding Seachem Excel (carbon source) will also help since you are not injecting C02.

_What type bulbs are you using?_


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## titan97 (Feb 14, 2005)

I had a 35 gallon tank with the WPG somewhere around 0.5. It was with the stupid single light strip that came with the tank. I was able to keep swords alive in it, but they didn't grow at all. The leaves didn't die off, like you are describing, however. I upped the lights to around 1.8 WPG and added CO2. Man, they took off. I started with the ferts at this time too. I used plant spikes directly under the swords. 
I just set up a 20 gal non-CO2 tank, but I am using Fluorish Excel. In the past 2 weeks that it has been up, the swords have put out several new leaves. My light set up on this tank is currently 1.0WPG. It is possible to grow swords in a low light tank, albeit slowly. Just be sure to feed them enough ferts, and add a carbon source (CO2 or Excel).

-Dustin

EDIT: I suspect that your swords are melting because of the change in light/ferts/etc. They should settle in once they have killed off the leaves they no longer need. It is the same case when you buy a plant from the pet store. They were most likely grown emersed, so you can expect to see some serious stress on the plant when you move it to your aquarium. Plants generally grow to the limit of their environment. A high light/fert tank will allow the plant to support several leaves. A low light/fert tank may only tall ow the sword to support half as many leaves.


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## molurus73 (Apr 15, 2005)

I am using a 2 x 55 watt kit from AH Supply with 2 6700 k bulbs. Are there ways to fertilize these nutrients without buying in bulk from say Greg Watson or some other supplier? Or is that the absolute best way to go?


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Yes, you can use liquid ferts like the Seachem line. With a tank of 75 gallons dry ferts are usually recommended, because it is cheaper. However with low light you should not be using that much where you would need to use dry.


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## JeffB (Mar 24, 2005)

The swords looked good in the beginning and then started to die off because the plant used up the nutrients it had in reserve. Just like a person starving. The body uses up the reserve fat first and then the symptoms of starvation shows. You need to fertilize the 3 macros Nitrogen, Potassium and Phosphate and micros. The eco complete will supply some of the micros but all plants need the macros and micros added to the water column. You can buy them in bulk or use the SeaChem line. I have done it both ways but the bulk form is by far the most cost effective.


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## StrungOut (Nov 8, 2004)

I would think that with a mature substrate and such a low lighting you wouldn't need to fertilize except for a touch here and there. I would think it would be the change of environment. See if they pick up. If a certain swords are doing better than the rest though I would think it would be a result of the allopathy(sp?) chemicals being produced off by the faster growers. If a certain sword seems stunted I would recommend floating it up to the top.


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## molurus73 (Apr 15, 2005)

Thanks everyone. I see the three macros, but what are the micros? What would I need to get in dry form or liquid form to supply these? Baby steps.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Any of the commercial preparations will work fine for micros...Flourish, Flourish Trace, TMG, or pretty much anything you can buy at an LFS. Some of the LFS down by you may carry the Seachem line of Nitrogen, Phosphorous, and Potassium also. No such luck up here though 

The CSM+B Plantex is the micros that Greg Watson has. While it is one of the highest priced dry ferts Greg carries it will last a long time. I have used maybe half a pound and I have used it on 4 high light CO2 injected tanks for over a year now. One bottle of one of the commercial products would last me maybe a month on my 75g tank for a similar price. 

A pound of any of Greg's fertilizers would last you a long time. I can give you a sample of the dry ferts at the meeting if you would like to try them. They are much cheaper than buying a commercial fertilizer, as has been stated.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

If the leaves are skeletonizing, with just the veins remaining, especieally the older leaves, potassium deficiency is the most likely. magnesium deficiency is similar. Potassium chloride, often called muriate of potash, can often be found in garden stores. so can magnesium sulfate. See the fertialtor for how much to add.


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## molurus73 (Apr 15, 2005)

i am definitely looking into the ferts from Greg Watson. No such luck finding Seachem stuff around here. Only Flourish so far. Will these ferts have any negative effect on fish? Even delicate ones such as discus and rams?


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Not unless you grossly overdose, such as 10 times the recommended dosage. Also, you should do some water changes once in a while. There are big margins of safety.


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## molurus73 (Apr 15, 2005)

Well, I tested my water tonight and this is what I get
Phospahtes: 5 ppm
Nitrates: 10 ppm
Ph: 7.2
Kh: 71.6 ppm or 4 dkh
Gh: 161.1 ppm or 9 dgh
Temperature is 82. I need to get that up a little for the discus that are in there. My Ph is high also. It had been staying around 6.5 that last few times I checked it. It has been a little bit since I checked that. Is it possible that the Eco Complete would raise Ph? So with all this info, what would you guys suggest for me to dose? I plan on purchasing stuff from Greg Watson's website Monday or Tuesday. What would you suggest and how much of everything? I want to stay away from CO2 if I can. In that case, should I get some Flourish Excel? I am trying to figure this all out. Thank you, Jim


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