# Effect of John Innes No. 3 on water chemistry?



## trl_21 (Jan 20, 2013)

Hi all.

Been doing plenty of research recently prior to setting up my first naturally planted tank using Diana's approach and this site has proven to be a wealth of knowledge. There is one thing that I have not been able to substantiate however. I will be using local tap water in this tank which is quite hard and I believe a little alkaline too. The soil I am using is John Innes No. 3 which contains almost 50% peat. 

Am I correct in thinking that the peat in the soil will serve to neutralize the pH of my tap water and reduce its hardness?

Many thanks,

Tom


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Tom, welcome to APC!

I have not used peat as a substrate, but my guess is yes. I hope someone with more peat experience will have more details.

What are the other ingredients of John Innes No. 3?


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

Hi Tom,

I'm not directly familiar with John Innes No. 3 (for some reason I kept reading it like the soil has a multi-part proper name... John Innes III), but I agree w/ Michael, the peat will bring down the pH and sequester some of the hardness. But, it may also stain the water quite yellow-brown. 

I'd do some experiments in canning jars, or even peanut butter jars set up on a windowsill; set up the soil you plan to use, under different capping substrates - sand, gravel, etc. Do some measurements over the course of several days, and take notes. Sort of a mini-tank trial. My question would be this - if you use a very fine grain sand, there will be reduced water movement into and out of the soil layer. If you use a larger grade cap, there will be more movement. What is the effect on your hard and alkaline water? And how quickly does the effect happen? 

I think Tom Barr has written about using a low tech approach which incorporates a thinner layer of straight peat (thinner than the soil layer in a Walstad type setup), and a very fine grade capping layer. But, that's a different premise, and setup. 

Do tell us what the other ingredients are - if there is something very rich, like poultry guano, it will release the nutrients very quickly, whereas composted bark fines will release them much more slowly.

Regardless, the fact that you're doing your research, and gathering information is the best preparation. 

-Jane


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## trl_21 (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks Michael,

I believe the ingredients are:

Peat
Sterilised Loam
Grit/Sand
Added Nutrients (According to a website I have found these are ground limestone, hoof and horn meal, superphosphate, potassium sulphate)

I have heard of many people having success with this no. 3 recipe so hopefully it should be fairly suitable. The reason I ask of its effect on water chemistry is so I can select suitable inhabitants once the tank is stabilised. I am particularly keen to try and breed some apistos so my hard water would be a somewhat limiting factor if the peat weren't to reduce hardness in the tank.

Thanks,

Tom


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Tom, given that the ingredients include some rich fetilizers, I would soak and drain several times, or mineralize the John Innes before you use it. I think it might have similar effects to our Miracle Grow Organic Choice, which contains poultry manure. MGOC will cause an ammonia spike if not prepared before use in the tank.


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## trl_21 (Jan 20, 2013)

Indeed I am soaking the soil currently and will do so for at least two weeks prior to setting up the aquarium. Hopefully this should reduce the initial ammonia spike and seeing as I don't intend to add any inhabitants for at least a few weeks after setup I should reduce most of the risks involved with high levels of nutrients in the initial stages.

On a slight tangent - would using some aged water from an aquarium I have currently running in the new setup be beneficial to the cycling of the tank? I intend to use filter media from this tank to get the new setup going anyway. I will then reduce/remove filtration once the tank is running smoothly.

@Jane. Thank you for your recommendation. That sounds like a good idea. I must invest in some test kits (I run my tanks on a very tight budget)! John Innes is more available for me in the UK hence I am using it but I believe the two products are fairly similar.

Tom


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## JKUK (Feb 16, 2007)

Hi Tom,

I'm in the U.K. too and have been using John Innes for years.

The only down side I have found is it initially produces some anaerobic areas, I think this is because of its high organic content breaking down. All I find necessary is to push a pencil down into the substrate occasionally to relieve this. Once your plants get well rooted and the tank matures this stops. Gravel depth and grade also seems important here, 25-35mm of 2-4mm over the soil works best for me.

Despite starting some tanks with pure rain water, I find all John Innes tanks run on the alkaline side, and remain very stable. 

However I must admit I now using plain top soil for my tanks, rather than the John Innes. Things just seem to run slightly smoother, especially early on.

James


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## trl_21 (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks for your advice on the possibility of anaerobic conditions James. It's good to hear that you have managed to make the product work repeatedly despite this. 

I find it strange that the tanks have been running alkaline. Have you any idea why?


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## dogsout (Feb 2, 2013)

I expect that would be due to the ground limestone, no?


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

dogsout said:


> I expect that would be due to the ground limestone, no?


That's my guess. Does JI make a potting soil for acid-loving plants?


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## JKUK (Feb 16, 2007)

trl_21 said:


> I find it strange that the tanks have been running alkaline. Have you any idea why?


It can only be something in the John Innes, as this happens even when using lime free quartz gravel over the top. I have tanks that are three years old with barely a water change that still register 7.5.

James


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## trl_21 (Jan 20, 2013)

James,

How did you go about preparing your John Innes soil before use?

I have started the soak/drain process and there appears to be a large number of coin sized lumps in the stuff. From what I can make out they might be bits of peat that haven't fully decomposed (but are well on their way). Presumably their decomposition in the tank could be detrimental so I am considering screening them out. What do you reckon?

Tom


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## JKUK (Feb 16, 2007)

I would remove those large lumps of peat Tom, you are correct in thinking they will not break down. 

I have never bothered soaking the soil first, as I never add fish straight away. Personally I just plant it up and let the plants deal with any ammonia. This way I get a self cycled tank in a few weeks without risking any livestock. One thing I would stress, as Diana says floating plants are essential especially during this running in period. Salvinia a is hard to beat! Don't forget our snail friends too. Miniature planorbids are great for this.

James


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## PaulG (Apr 25, 2011)

JI3 sent my already hard water off the charts. I don't use it anymore.


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