# Betta situation



## Prometheus (Feb 12, 2008)

I have a betta fish in a large bowl. It is maybe 3 or 4 gallons. I have a layer of gravel, a bamboo plant and some fake plants in it. NO soil or light other than whatever light comes in from the window. I do water changes every week. Just in the past two or three weeks I noticed that when I syphon the bowl, there are a lot of white flakes that come up from the gravel and some of the fake plants have some brown spots or film on them. There isn't that much brown stuff and it looks like the stuff that you find built up on a filter. It rubs off easily. Is it the same bacteria? Is it normal? And what are the white flakes? This bowl was set up over 6 months ago. Yesterday when I did a water change I cleaned the brown stuff from the fake plants too. 

On another note, this morning I noticed the betta has a tiny round hole? on his side near his head. It's a tiny indentation or hole in a perfect circle shape (maybe the size could be around 1milimeter). It's not that deep but I noticed it. There is no discoloration or anything and he looks and acts healthy. Anyone know what this is? I never noticed anything before so I don't know how long it's been there or the cause.


Anyone have any input?


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

The brown stuff could be diatoms. Even though my 10g tank is 8 months old, I still get diatoms but they mainly form on the glass. As for the white flakes, I really can't say what that could be. I've never had that problem when my betta was in his 2.5g tank.

Could you possibly get some pictures of your betta, especially ones that show the hole in his head? They would greatly help.


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## Deni (Jul 6, 2005)

I looked at the Betta Talk site and the only mention of a hole in the head on the list of possible ailments was a bacterial infection. I think the best thing is to just go to her page and see what she has to say -- http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_diseases.htm


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

The white flakes are also bacterial colonies. If you change too much water at once, or scrub too much, they will overgrow for a while before leveling off. I tried to keep Betas with just plants (mosses, Marimo Ball, bamboo, water hyacinth...) and a 1/4" gravel, but found I was fighting a war with bacteria. The more I cleaned, the worse it got, and lost both betas to probable fish TB. Not all bacteria is mycobacterium of couse, just what happened to me. (Bleach didn't help) That's when I went with soil in my Beta tanks, 6 months ago. The good bacterium from the soil out-compete mycobacterium and I have healthy, happy Bettas. They really are beautiful. I love them. These smaller (gallon) tanks are also my easiest. No filter except plenty of plants, no heater (room temps), no electric lights, they get moved into sunlight every day, top off water every week or so and change 1/4 to 1/3 every month with a plant trim. Feed fish twice a day. It's my other tanks that give me algae grief- not these.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Ms Walstad mentions putting a sick fish in a soil-planted tank and it getting better in the supposed dirtier environment, try the diseased fish thread sticky at the top of this forum.


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## Prometheus (Feb 12, 2008)

So these bacterial white flakes are harmful to fish? I get the concept with the soil but my concern is that it wont get enough light to grow anything except bamboo (which doesn't need soil to grow) so it will probably be a disaster. Maybe now it might have a chance since spring is coming along.. but in the winter it wouldn't work at all. There would be no sun and then I'd probably have a mess to clean up. If you can get algae so easily when you first set up a 20 gallon tank, for example, why wouldnt' you get any in this small environment? I haven't really gotten algae in the bowl other than the other stuff I mentioned. I have a tank with soil but that has a light strip. How can I make this work? I'm willing to try the soil but I'm not sure if it makes sense without sunlight. What about a thicker gravel bed?


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

Sounds like the natural tannins maybe good for the fish.
Just like tea seems to help a cold/flu (tea = tannins)



mommyeireanne said:


> Ms Walstad mentions putting a sick fish in a soil-planted tank and it getting better in the supposed dirtier environment, try the diseased fish thread sticky at the top of this forum.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

I wish I knew why my smaller set ups worked better, I thought it was the other way around. My Betta Nanos are in a bright room, and they sit under the kitchen light (fluorescent stips under a cover ceiling mounted). That's been enough for every plant except the pond plant Water Hyacinth. I'd say try some low light plants. Dwarf Sagitaria (Sag. subulata) worked in these for me and my sister both, hers even less light. Water sprite has done ok, too. I put in less than an inch layer of dirt, topped with an inch of gravel. I have been wanting to put lucky bamboo in a dirt tank, wondering if it would do well. If you do it, please let me know. If you need more light, could you put it near a lamp? Or try a clip-on lamp (about $5 for my 60w one). 

In the meantime, you could give him a 15m "salt bath" treatment. 1 teaspoon Epsom Salts per gallon, fully dissolved in dechlorinated water, only 15min. Do a partial water change in his home and don't scrub it. Just make sure all the water he goes back in forth in is the same temp. Or consider putting him in a hospital tank and dosing him with antibiotics. 

Bacterial colonization is normal in a tank. And all sorts of bacteria make the biofilms (Ms Walstad's book) that we see as white flakes. I think the idea with the dirt is that many types of bacteria compete in the same environment so no one bacteria can get out of control. That was my understanding, anyway. I think the MB I had a problem with actually overgrew when I killed off all the other bacteria by cleaning in bleach solution. I do still wipe down the sides when I trim plants sometimes.


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## Morbida (Aug 15, 2005)

Is this 'lucky bamboo'? It really isnt suitable for an aquarium. I have heard horror stories about the whole bamboo in a betta tank about rotting and causing all kinds of issues and loss of said fishy. It's better to be safe then sorry.

At this point what I would do is reset the tank. You dont mention if you have a filter running on this tank or not, or if you have any way to have the water tested.

If you have no filter then resetting the tank isnt going to really disturb any bacteria because the tank shouldnt have cycled in the first place. Which means 100% water changes. Now if you dont want to mess with soil there are a few good live plants to have in a soilless tank that will help. Arachnis, java fern ,java moss , grow some 'betta bulbs' in there.

Water quality is your main concern. Without a filter all that really needs to be tested for is ammonia. For a few weeks keep track of when ammonia shows up in the tank. That will tell you when you need to do 100% water change. With live plants in the tank that wont be as often as one would think.

As for the hole in betta's head.. Id do research beyond bettatalk. I have never had a betta have that so I'm not sure what to do about it. A good forum to ask around on is http://aquamaniacs.net/forum/portal.php
This forum has helped me many times for fish specific problems.


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## Prometheus (Feb 12, 2008)

Okay, I was thinking about using soil with the bamboo stalk until I saw that comment about the lucky bamboo!! I didnt' get it from the pet store, that's for sure. I don't know what kind of bamboo it is but I looked it up online and it seems like it could be lucky bamboo. It's a good low light, low maintenance plant, though  

oh and mommyeireanne: From what I just read it you can grow it in soil too. I also read that it does not like water logged soil but since you can just grow it in water I don't know which one is right! ugh!! so who knows? I guess you'd have to experiment. maybe someone else has some experience with that?

I don't have a filter but I change the water once a week, feed the guy one pellet a day, and since there's a plant in there, I don't think amonia would be a problem but I'll have it checked next time I go to the petstore anyway. thanks

And I'll try the salt bath with the betta. He doesn't exactly have a hole in the head. It's behind his neck or his 'flaring fins' and I can't tell if it's a hole since there is no rot or anything nasty around it. It looks just like a perfectly round spot where the pigment's just a little darker than the rest. I'm pretty sure it's indented though. It looks the same as yesterday. I'll see if I can catch it with a photo.

meanwhile i'll look into the low light plants... thanks!rayer:


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## Morbida (Aug 15, 2005)

Lucky bamboo is happy with its root area covered in water , thats why you find it in tiny tiny pots with just some kind of rock anchoring it. Pretty cool lil plant , just not as aqua friendly as one would think. Too bad too cuz it does kinda look sweet in a small betta tank set up.


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## Prometheus (Feb 12, 2008)

Why not aqua friendly? Are you saying that it's because it may rot in soil? 

By the way, if I use soil, would aeration/filtration be necessary for the first few months because of possible toxins from the soil or does it not matter in this case since bettas breath from the surface?


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

It's not a true bamboo. It's a kind of houseplant, Dracaena, that looks like bamboo in this form, otherwise it has lots more leaves. I read that it needs to be planted in dirt, and shouldn't dry out between waterings (keep it wet). It will eventually die if it only has water on rocks like it's often sold, but should be good for years in soil. Mine was healthy for a year in just fish water. I only threw it out because of the MB. It still looked good. I understand that any rotten plant would be bad for an aquarium if there's more rot than the other plants can use as nutrients. Could you tell us the specifics for what happened with the one that didn't work? I nearly bought one last weekend to try in dirt.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Plain dirt won't be toxic necessarily (fertilized dirt could be), but it can spike ammonia in the beginning. 
This could be bad for a betta if he's ill. Or if it's high ammonia. I had a low ammonia spike when I did my last one, for a week. You could just house him in something else for a while. I don't use any mechanical filtration in my small ones. If you haven't read Diana Walstad's book, you should check it out. It comes in an eBook. Libraries carry it too, sometimes. It's a good read for anyone who likes aquariums, I think.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Prometheus said:


> Why not aqua friendly? Are you saying that it's because it may rot in soil?
> 
> By the way, if I use soil, would aeration/filtration be necessary for the first few months because of possible toxins from the soil or does it not matter in this case since bettas breath from the surface?


Some people add filters to their tanks for the first few months so their fish have enough oxygen. Just because bettas can breathe air, it doesn't mean that they are impervious to things like ammonia and nitrite. I had gotten an ammonia spike when I first set his tank up but that could've been prevented if I had more floating/emergent plants in there.

I had added a filter to my betta's tank back in January. Before that, I never used anything like filters or airstones in his tank.


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## Prometheus (Feb 12, 2008)

...yes I have the book .. i just never bothered to do soil with such a small bowl. i want to keep it low maintenance with just natural light.

I have soil that has been airing out for a while so I am willing to try it out with the bamboo since light is an issue and it's really not a tank. Does anyone know more about using this kind of bamboo? If it doesnt work...well I guess I'll have to try other plants 

maybe
:heh:

thanks!


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

I wanted to tell you that I had my bamboo emersed about 9 inches and it was fine- I forgot to mention that. Good luck! Keep us posted.


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## Prometheus (Feb 12, 2008)

hey,

So I replanted the bowl using soil and the bamboo but I haven't put my betta in there yet. He still seems okay. I just wanted to post the picture of the spot he has. It's still there. What do you guys think of this spot he has on the right of his head? Is it normal? The color on the top of his head looks a little gray compared to the rest. But maybe he was always like that, I'm not sure. But I know for sure the spot hasn't always been there.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

He could have had an injury. One of my Bettas got himself tangled in a plant and ripped his fins and rays up terribly. All I saw was the thrashing about and then he was out and torn, by the time I crossed the room. He looked awful, but he healed. His fins weren't as nice looking, but they grew back. And this was in the dirt NPT Nano. (I still have him, I just switched him to a community NPT.) Maybe a small injury grew bacteria and now he has the hole. If he's healthy and it's not too serious he can heal it. Give him a good diet and maybe do some extra, small water changes. You could give him some cooked egg yolk, some green pea, small ants from the yard if you don't use lawn chemicals... but make sure the foods aren't left to foul the water. Basic stuff you probably already know...
If your NPT has no initial ammonia spike, or when it's over that it'll, be good for him. Short salt baths in another container will still help him, too. My Bettas have shades and multi color areas. And overall color changes a lot when they are happily acclimated and fed a variety of foods, especially live foods. I wouldn't worry about the lighter area unless there's something growing there (like white fuzz) or his overall color is fading (that's a bad sign). Thanks for keeping us updated. I'm betting your Betta will be well because you are obviously concerned and trying hard to give him good care. Good luck!


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

I think it looks like an injury too. How is he behaving? If he's still acting the same as always then I wouldn't be worried about it. My betta has hurt his head quite a few times when he's hunting and he always gets better.


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## Prometheus (Feb 12, 2008)

Betta is still alive and acting fine. So I planted the bamboo and only filled the bowl with a few inches of water. I put the betta in a different bowl in the meantime. I finally got around to adding some water sprite ( a week or more later) The water is kind of yellow and I can't tell if the water sprite is getting enough light. My windows face North so I am skeptical that it will grow. Someone mentioned Betta bulbs. I heard those are aponogeton bulbs? I never knew those were low light plants. I think I will try to get some. Should I completely drain all the yellow water and add new water? How will I know if the water sprite is getting enough light or if I should take it out? And when will it be safe to move the betta back in there? oh no! I forgot to add the oyster grit to the soil this time


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Yellow water may just mean it's got dissolved organic compounds, which can feed your plants. Green water maybe single-cell algae, which will clear when the plant growth is dominant. You could wait to change the water until you put the fish in, if you don't mind it. Glad your Betta is doing well!


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