# Fighting hydra invasion



## Guibang (Nov 11, 2019)

Hi everyone,

This is my first thread here. I am quite new to the aquarium world. (excuse my English, I am French).

I have set up a NPT tank two months ago. It's a 54L tank. Approximate parameters are 
Ph 7
GH 7
KH 6
NO2 0
NO3 0
Soil is 2.5cm potting soil and then 3,5cm quartz gravel (3 to 4mm diameter per gravel)

Lamp is Easyled 2.0 590mm 6800K

I now have 8 microrasbora galaxy (I have seen fry but I think they did not make it)
5 blue velvet shrimps (2 females are carrying eggs).
Lots of snails (malaysian snails) and other types I only know how to name in French (planorbes and physes)

I never seem to have had any nitrite peak in the installation process of the tank. I did get algae at some point but it has gone away. Although recently a new type of algae that is thicker has appeared and shrimps or snails don't seem to care about it&#8230; Anyway it's just a bit I don't worry about it too much.

So everything is going great in my opinion. I am amazed by the method. Plants are mostly thriving and livestock seems quite happy.

The only problem is I have a hydra invasion I don't know how to deal with. I take any hydra I see off of the tank (usually by cutting off the leaf on which it is staying in order not to cut the hydra itself accidently).

I have introduced 3 asolene spixi snails in the tank a few days ago because I read online they were supposed to eat hydra. I haven't seen them eating hydra. I do suspect them to eat the plants though. And I have spotted them trying to eat other snails. I think I should take them off of the tank. I Don't like the idea of these snails eating my other snails. Plus they will logically multiply.

My fish (microrasbora galaxy) are small and don't eat hydra. I've read some fish do (blue gourami apparently). Mine don't&#8230;

So I have but three questions:

- What do you suggest I do to take care of my hydra problem?
- Are hydra a serious threat to fry, shrimplets and shrimps? Or is this threat exaggerated?
- What is your opinion on asolene spixi snails? Are they useful at all? Should I get rid of them?

Thanks a lot for your help. I'm sorry in advance if pieces of information are missing in this first post.

I have attached a picture of the tank.

*EDIT*
I have another question unrelated to the main topic:
Does someone know of an unexpensive LED controler? I think my light is too bright. I have bought a 7€ chihiro controler (my lamp isn't a chihiro). It works but it makes the lamp twinkle. Therefore I don't use it. There is a controler made by the brand of my lamp (Aquatlantis easy LED 2.0 590mm) designed for my lamp but it's 79€ so I'm a bit reluctant. I'd prefer a cheaper way. My setup does not allow me to raise the lamp. And I do not want to cover the top of the tank for aesthetic reasons. So if someone has a solution for me. I'd be grateful


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Welcome to APC!

Your tank looks great. I don't know much about hydra other than a few minor infestations which went away with no effort on my part. I have read that some gourami species will eat hydra, but the fish must have no other food to do so. This would probably endanger your tiny fish!

Have you tried assassin snails, _Clea helena_? They are smaller than _Asolene spixi_ and do not eat plants. Mine co-exist with _Neocaridina_ shrimp, but I would not trust them with rare or delicate shrimp.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I only had hydra problems when I was feeding my fish excessive amounts of baby brine shrimp (nauplii). Before I knew it, the hydra population exploded such that the glass was covered with green fuzz!

If you are feeding your fish nauplii, be careful to feed only small amounts in areas away from hydra colonies. If you are _not_ feeding nauplii or some other small live food, hydra should not cause a problem. Consider hydra as a natural part of a planted aquarium.

Your tank is lovely. Pleasure to look at... I would be very pleased with this tank.


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## Guibang (Nov 11, 2019)

Michael said:


> Welcome to APC!
> 
> Your tank looks great. I don't know much about hydra other than a few minor infestations which went away with no effort on my part. I have read that some gourami species will eat hydra, but the fish must have no other food to do so. This would probably endanger your tiny fish!
> 
> Have you tried assassin snails, _Clea helena_? They are smaller than _Asolene spixi_ and do not eat plants. Mine co-exist with _Neocaridina_ shrimp, but I would not trust them with rare or delicate shrimp.


Thank you for your answer Michael.. I Don't really want to introduce a predatory snail in my tank. I Don't want my other snails to be eaten. Maybe I should? I Don't know it there is a risk of overpopulation.

This makes me ask myself what is the recommended procedure in a Walstad tank when an animal (fish, shrimp or snail) dies. Is it necessary to take the dead body away or should it stay in the tank? My first idea would be to remove it from the tank to prevent pollution but I'm wondering since the Walstad method aims to reproduce Nature to a certain extent.



dwalstad said:


> I only had hydra problems when I was feeding my fish excessive amounts of baby brine shrimp (nauplii). Before I knew it, the hydra population exploded such that the glass was covered with green fuzz!
> 
> If you are feeding your fish nauplii, be careful to feed only small amounts in areas away from hydra colonies. If you are _not_ feeding nauplii or some other small live food, hydra should not cause a problem. Consider hydra as a natural part of a planted aquarium.
> 
> Your tank is lovely. Pleasure to look at... I would be very pleased with this tank.


Thank you very much for your kind words Mrs Walstad. I am very happy with the tank too. I find it fascinating. It makes me want to make another one!

As for the hydra problem I haven't been feeding my fish any live food yet. I'd like to but I've been afraid it would benefit the hydra.

How did you solve the hydra invasion you described? The glass covered with hydra must have been a scary thing. Mine aren't green hydra as you seem to describe. They are rather white to pink looking. I don't know if this changes anything. I'm sure they're hydra from all the pictures I've seen though. And shrimps don't seem to like it when they run into one of them.

For those who might be interested I've attached a picture of the tank this morning and a picture of the tank on its first day.

Missing parameters in the first post:
I am using a heater: temperature is 23°C
I am also using a small water streamer (Don't know how to say properly) for a bit of water movement. You can see it in the back.


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## Guibang (Nov 11, 2019)

Maybe I should rename my topic or start a new one I don't know. Since I have a completely different question related to plants growth:

I've noticed these last few days my eleocharis parvulus are getting yellowish. Plus almost all my plants now have holes appearing on their leaves. 

What do you think might be the cause of this? Is it due to a lack of CO2? In this case, if I lower the intensity of the lamp will plants need less CO2?

Are my plants lacking something else?

Thank you for your attention and help


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Guibang said:


> How did you solve the hydra invasion you described? The glass covered with hydra must have been a scary thing. Mine aren't green hydra as you seem to describe. They are rather white to pink looking. I don't know if this changes anything. I'm sure they're hydra from all the pictures I've seen though. And shrimps don't seem to like it when they run into one of them.
> 
> For those who might be interested I've attached a picture of the tank this morning and a picture of the tank on its first day.


I'd say the plants filled in pretty nicely within 2 months. Thanks for pictures.

The hydra problem became an obsession with me many years ago and I wrote a published article on it. And yes, the fuzz color was a dirty pink. (The few I see now in my tanks are greenish.) The article talks about a Bausman's tonic which is no longer available. Of course, a heat treatment will also work. The article's main point is that you may have to treat more than once, because the hydra lay eggs.

For your purposes, see this website on killing hydra with Fenbendazole, an anti-parasite chemical I have used successfully in the past for ridding my fish of Camallanus worms.

Hope this helps.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

I've never used fenbendazole on hydra, but I can testify that it is effective against Camallanus worms. And it did not harm my shrimp or snails.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Guibang, Just a polite request.... I suggest that you start a new El Natural thread for your "holes in the leaves" problem.

That's because I would like to keep this thread on subject of hydra. Your question has dug up an old problem that I thought was a dead issue. (I may update my 30-year-old hydra article and put it up on my website.) 

If you decide to do anything about the hydra, it would be nice to hear your results. Thanks.


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## Guibang (Nov 11, 2019)

Thank you for your help. As I am a bit afraid to hurt my snails for now I will keep on hand removing hydra in the tank. But I'll make sure to keep you updated if this gets out of control and I decide to treat the tank. 

I will make a new topic about my holes in the leaves problem as you suggested.


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## armedbiggiet (May 6, 2006)

My company made LED lights for fish tank and we are all using that same controller you are talking about so IF your LED lights blinks or twinkle... It means your LED is not made it that way so don't use the controller any more and you will damaged it. Buy LED have that function first than you can control it.


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## Gerald (Mar 24, 2008)

Hydra can weaken and kill small fish like Microrasbora with repeated stings, even if they are too big for Hydra to eat. I would treat the tank Fenbendazole, Flubendazole, or similar medication. Most of the products meant to kill Planaria will also Hydra. Eventually you will want your Galaxies to breed, and they will need live food, which will make the Hydra reproduce faster.


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## Guibang (Nov 11, 2019)

Gerald said:


> Hydra can weaken and kill small fish like Microrasbora with repeated stings, even if they are too big for Hydra to eat. I would treat the tank Fenbendazole, Flubendazole, or similar medication. Most of the products meant to kill Planaria will also Hydra. Eventually you will want your Galaxies to breed, and they will need live food, which will make the Hydra reproduce faster.


Thanks for your comment Gerald. You're getting me worried&#8230; Have you done this before? Do you think this will harm my snail population? I don't want to hurt them&#8230; Plus wouldn't a mass extinction of all snails in the tank be dangerous?

Mrs Walstad says hydra lay eggs so does it mean the treatment has to be applied several times?

I don't understand (from what I've been reading). How long you need to keep the med in the water. Mrs Walstad you say you have been successfull by repeating the treatment 3 times (every 4 weeks) over a course of twelve weeks. How much water did you change in between. After how many days/weeks after the introduction of the medication did you do these changes? 
In the end when your hydra population had disappeared, did you do important water changes in order to clean the water from fenbendazole?


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## Guibang (Nov 11, 2019)

armedbiggiet said:


> My company made LED lights for fish tank and we are all using that same controller you are talking about so IF your LED lights blinks or twinkle... It means your LED is not made it that way so don't use the controller any more and you will damaged it. Buy LED have that function first than you can control it.


Thanks for your feedback. I've ordered the 70€ controller :'(


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## Gerald (Mar 24, 2008)

I have eliminated Hydra several times with a single treatment of Flubendazole, following Charles Harrison's instructions (http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/FlubendazoleTreatment.pdf). I do not use hot water or vodka to dissolve it. I just sprinklled the powder on the water surface. Robert Goldstein used it that way and said it works great. I'm guessing that Hydra egg production is seasonal (triggered by cold, or low oxygen, or other stressors), and perhaps I was lucky and they were only reproducing asexually at that time. Or, maybe Flubendazole kills Hydra eggs too. Anyway, I didnt see any more.

Not sure if it will kill snails. I would remove as many snails as possible to a quarantine tank just to be safe, and examine that tank for Hydra before returning the snails back to the main tank. Feed some fresh hatched brine shrimp to make the Hydra easy to see, if they are present. I often collect wild aquatic plants and driftwood, and Hydra are quite common in North Carolina.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

Guibang said:


> Thanks for your feedback. I've ordered the 70€ controller :'(


My understanding was that armedbiggiet was suggesting the issue was the LED, not the controller. Since they use your existing controller on their other lights with no issue, it suggests your LED was not built to be used with a controller. So even the expensive one may not work. *@armedbiggiet*, is that correct?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Gerald Pottern, Dr. Goldstein, Charles Harrison are true authorities and more experienced than I am on this subject. (Still learning!) Thus, I would go with Flubendazole and their recommendations. Thank you Gerald!


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## Guibang (Nov 11, 2019)

Thank you for your advises. I've ordered the medication. I will be treating the tank shortly. I will keep you updated and give you my feedback on how it goes.

Do you think I could keep snails in a basin of water for three days ? (duration of treatment in the pdf Gerald linked). I don't have another tank nor heater to keep them. In the article Mrs Walstad linked it's said apart from nerites (which I don't own) snails should not be harmed… I'm not sure what to do about them...

Gerald do you do a water change three days after treating the tank as the pdf you linked suggests?


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## Guibang (Nov 11, 2019)

jatcar95 said:


> My understanding was that armedbiggiet was suggesting the issue was the LED, not the controller. Since they use your existing controller on their other lights with no issue, it suggests your LED was not built to be used with a controller. So even the expensive one may not work. *@armedbiggiet*, is that correct?


I'll tell you tonight if it works. I've just received the package. I'll just send it back if it keeps twinkling. I hope it doesn't!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Guibang said:


> Thank you for your advises. I've ordered the medication. I will be treating the tank shortly. I will keep you updated and give you my feedback on how it goes.
> 
> Do you think I could keep snails in a basin of water for three days ? (duration of treatment in the pdf Gerald linked). I don't have another tank nor heater to keep them. In the article Mrs Walstad linked it's said apart from nerites (which I don't own) snails should not be harmed&#8230; I'm not sure what to do about them...
> 
> Gerald do you do a water change three days after treating the tank as the pdf you linked suggests?


I think your snails will be fine at room temp during treatment. (My shrimp bowls have no heaters and RCS and snails do fine at current cool room temperatures (around 62 -72F).

Thank you for offering to give feedback. That will encourage me to write updated article on killing hydra.  I currently don't have hydra even with daily feeding of baby brine shrimp to my young fish, but I remember the old days when hydra was a major problem.

Good luck!


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## Gerald (Mar 24, 2008)

I did not change water for more than 2 weeks after the Flubendazole treatments. Dr. Goldstein said it didn't appear to cause any harm to his fish (mostly killifish and wild species Bettas) to just leave it in the tank until the next regular scheduled water change.


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## Guibang (Nov 11, 2019)

So I'm ready to give you a first feedback. I received the medication last week and treated the tank this week-end.

I followed the method presented by Paul Chapman in the website linked by Mrs Walstad: https://planetinverts.com/planet-invertsblog/kill-planaria-hydra/ .

The medication is a 1 gram powder. I put the medication on a table. Given that I couldn't measure 0,1g I divided the powder in 10 little packs. Paul Chapman recommends to use 0,1g for a 10 gallon tank which is 37 liters. My tank is 54 liters and I estimated it has around 45liters of water in it (I might be wrong about this). So my plan was to use 0,12g of the medication. A little be more as what Paul Chapman used. So I took one 0,1g pack and what I estimated to be 20% of another one. I put that powder inside a syringe. I then filled the syringe with tank water I had poured in a glass. I shaked the syringe and waited a bit to try to dissolve the med. After a few minutes I sprayed the medication in the tank. I sprayed it on the surface. I didn't try to go deep but I try to cover the whole surface in a uniform way.

I did this at the beginning of the 4 hour siesta my tank goes through everyday. As it was siesta time I couldn't see anything really. When the lights came back on I could clearly see that all hydra had died. I don't think any has survived at all. Water became cloudy.

I could not notice any effect on livestock. All of my snails survived (malaysian trumpets, ramshorn, physa marmorata). Shrimps (neocaridina davidi blue velvet) doing shrimp stuff. Fish (danio margaritatus) doing fish stuff as well.

As Gerald suggested I intend to wait two weekd before doing a water change. I am wondering if the medication will dissipate (in part) by itself or if I need to do drastic water changes to get it out?

anyway at this stage I can say it's rather a huge success in the hydra war. This method does work really well.

Feel free to ask questions if you have any. Sorry for my English.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Thanks for update. Glad to hear you killed the little buggers. Good riddance!

KEY Question: Did you use Fenbendazole or Flubendazole? Paul Chapman used Fenbendazole. Dr. Goldstein's group used Flubendazole. These two different drugs have similar spelling and are easily confused--even by those with perfect English.


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## Guibang (Nov 11, 2019)

dwalstad said:


> Thanks for update. Glad to hear you killed the little buggers. Good riddance!
> 
> KEY Question: Did you use Fenbendazole or Flubendazole? Paul Chapman used Fenbendazole. Dr. Goldstein's group used Flubendazole. These two different drugs have similar spelling and are easily confused--even by those with perfect English.


I used fenbendazole as Paul Chapman did. In fact I even bought the exact same drug he did from the same website: https://www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-worming...ers-c-17_43/panacur-wormer-granules-1g-p-1665 . The price is ridiculous (1 pound). I had a bit of shipment fees - living in France - of course. In the end I paid something like 7€.

Now I guess It's wait and see&#8230; Will there be hydra eggs hatching and a new colony appearing. Maybe I should do a preventive treatment in a couple of weeks? Gerald says it never happened to him. I'm tempted to try doing nothing!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I searched literature briefly for resistance of hydra eggs and couldn't find anything to say 'Yeah or Nay." From what I read, though, it didn't sound like the hydra's egg membrane is made out of concrete. The Fenbendazole might be able to penetrate the egg, especially if you leave drug in tank for a week or two. Based on Gerald's comments, I think you could do a single treatment. And if a single treatment doesn't work, you can always do a sequence of treatments later.

The heat and a salt tonic methods that I used 30 years ago probably weren't strong enough to kill the eggs. Or conditions in my particular tanks promoted sexual reproduction.


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