# [Wet Thumb Forum]-HELP DESIGN my DIY inline heater (gromet/silicone/foam ideas needed for seal))



## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

*UPDATE:*_ See last post from Sept 10 and first two from Sept 11 to see the proposed solution._

OK, I bought that fireplug heater and I have been trying to think of a way around it.

I've been toying with DIY ideas for a while now and it's 3 am and I can't sleep and it *HIT ME*!

!!!







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*Why not build a heat exchanger*







!!!







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!!!

In theory, it's some insulation from home Depot ($5 maybe) and a cheap 5-10 gallon aquarium. So, maybe $15 for the insulation/tank.

how it goes together...

1) Fill the tank with water, put the heater(s) in it. The tank will ultimately be hidden under your stand.

2) From your canister filter or pump, run tubing through the tank, then back to your aquarium.

3) Insulate the tank so most of the heat produced is kept in the tank and thus transered to the tubing. Insulate the floor, walls and ceiling of the tank.

The trick is figuring out how to best transfer the heat without using alot of tubing.

Running 1/4" tubing in parrallel is probably the best method. That will allow for much more surface area. Some quick math I did shows that 3/8" ID tubing would be much more economical though.

And for safety, don't let the heaters touch the tubing in the tank. The last thing we need is to cause a leak.

So, should I be the guinneau pig?

I have a 125 gallon aquarium to heat...

Anyways, I'll go into a more detailed discussion unless people think I am crazy.

Karl

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal 

[This message was edited by kherman on Wed September 10 2003 at 03:57 AM.]

[This message was edited by kherman on Thu September 11 2003 at 10:48 AM.]

[This message was edited by kherman on Thu September 11 2003 at 10:49 AM.]

[This message was edited by kherman on Fri September 12 2003 at 07:03 AM.]


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

*UPDATE:*_ See last post from Sept 10 and first two from Sept 11 to see the proposed solution._

OK, I bought that fireplug heater and I have been trying to think of a way around it.

I've been toying with DIY ideas for a while now and it's 3 am and I can't sleep and it *HIT ME*!

!!!







!!!







!!!







*Why not build a heat exchanger*







!!!







!!!







!!!

In theory, it's some insulation from home Depot ($5 maybe) and a cheap 5-10 gallon aquarium. So, maybe $15 for the insulation/tank.

how it goes together...

1) Fill the tank with water, put the heater(s) in it. The tank will ultimately be hidden under your stand.

2) From your canister filter or pump, run tubing through the tank, then back to your aquarium.

3) Insulate the tank so most of the heat produced is kept in the tank and thus transered to the tubing. Insulate the floor, walls and ceiling of the tank.

The trick is figuring out how to best transfer the heat without using alot of tubing.

Running 1/4" tubing in parrallel is probably the best method. That will allow for much more surface area. Some quick math I did shows that 3/8" ID tubing would be much more economical though.

And for safety, don't let the heaters touch the tubing in the tank. The last thing we need is to cause a leak.

So, should I be the guinneau pig?

I have a 125 gallon aquarium to heat...

Anyways, I'll go into a more detailed discussion unless people think I am crazy.

Karl

------------------------------
Karl's Parts And Construction Journal 

[This message was edited by kherman on Wed September 10 2003 at 03:57 AM.]

[This message was edited by kherman on Thu September 11 2003 at 10:48 AM.]

[This message was edited by kherman on Thu September 11 2003 at 10:49 AM.]

[This message was edited by kherman on Fri September 12 2003 at 07:03 AM.]


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## Ron Nelson (Apr 2, 2003)

I'm not going to tell you that you are crazy... But I am curious why you are trying to find a way around the fireplug? Isn't it a lot smaller than a 10 gallon tank? Are you just thinking it would be more fun to DIY?

Ron


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

I suppose there are several reasons:

1) I like to build stuff








2) cheaper than a new fireplug ($200+)
3) one 500 watt heater stuck in the on position would be bad.
4) For my 125 gallon aquarium I really want 2 individual heaters for safety reasons. I don't want to "cook" a 125 gallon tank on accident. It's like having insurance on the tank.
5) There arn't really any good, cheap products available to fill this specific product segment.
6) If it works, it's about $20 for plumbing stuff, $5 for insulation, $10 for the tank and $50 for the heaters. *$85 total*. A repair is basically replace a heater for $25. If the fireplug breaks .... cha ching!
7) It would be truely one of a kind and it may prove to be desired in the community. A cheap DIY project.

The only thing better would be the Pentair Aquatics Heater Modules. Those go for about $40 per module. So it's $80 for two modules and $50 for the heaters. $130 total. DIY would save about $50.

In the past several hours, I have actually thought of a way to eliminate the tank and do this 100% with PVC. The concept is the same though. I'll describe it in the next post.

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

Here's the tankless design concept.

~~~~~~\ This thing on top is supposed to be
| the power cord.
|
|
/---|+|---\ 3" slip to 3" threaded fitting with 3"threaded 
| |!| | to 1"threaded reduction fitting.
| |!| |
| |!| |
| |!| \--\
| |!| |
| |H| | WATER OUTLET
| |H| |
| |H| /--/
| |H| |
| |H| |
| |H| |
| |H| |
| |H| | The H's are the area the heater would go.
| |H| |
| |H| |
| |H| |
| |H| |
| |H| |
| | | |
| \-/ |
| |
| |
| \--\
| |
| | WATER INLET
| |
| /--/
| |
| |
| |
-----------

Essentially, this would have a heater inside a 1" PVC tube that is filled with water. The top would be open to the air to gain access to the heater. The top of this 1" PVC tube for the heater would be terminated with a 1" male threaded adapter.

The outer tube would be 3" in diameter and have two T's. One on the top, one on the bottom. These will be the water inlets and outlets. The top of the tube would be terminated with a 3" female threaded adapter.

Now the two tops would be a 1" male adapter and a 3" female adapter. By using a reduction fitting or two, you can essentially thread the 1" tube and 3" tube together to make a water tight fit, such that hte 1" tube is inside the 3" tube. All that is left is the inlet and the outlet.

The problem with this design might be poor heater transfer due to the lack of surface area. A 2" inner tube might fix that though.

Using a metal for the 1" tube would fix heat transfer efficiency. Copper is out though









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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Karl,

If you use this design I think you must do it with some kind of thin-walled metal for the inner tube and add something to insulate the hot metal from the PVC. PVC is a poor heat conductor; it might get hot, soft and fumey on the inside while staying relatively cool on the outside. If it heats all the way through then it will get very soft.

I don't know exactly what kind of heater you're talking about, so this suggestion might be off base. Could you use a submersible heater and seal it directly into the top of the 3" pvc fitting, with the control exposed?

To get a less bulky assembly you could probably use 2" or even 1 1/2" PVC, and something a lot lighter than the standard schedule 40.


Roger Miller

"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Roger Miller:
> Karl,
> ...


That makes total sense. The inside must be metal. Steal is probably the safest way to go.


> quote:
> 
> I don't know exactly what kind of heater you're talking about, so this suggestion might be off base. Could you use a submersible heater and seal it directly into the top of the 3" pvc fitting, with the control exposed?


The plan is to use a submersible heater. the heater will be in water inside of the smaller tube. The top of the smaller tube is open. The smaller tube is essentially inside the larger tube and the space between the two is part of the closed loop filtration system. This essentially makes this 100% leak proof. The control isn't exposed, but the heater can simply be pulled out of the inner tube and adjusted and put back in in seconds.


> quote:
> 
> To get a less bulky assembly you could probably use 2" or even 1 1/2" PVC, and something a lot lighter than the standard schedule 40.


The inner tube material is tricky. I'll just have to do some HW.


> quote:
> 
> Roger Miller
> 
> "The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein


Maybe the bestthing to do is to figure out a good way to seal the heater in the tube, eitehr entirely, jsut having hte electric cord coming out or in a manner so thath the control is always exposed.

I really want to tackle this one and think I will ultimately build something. Maybe USplastic.com has something in their labware section that is usable for these purposes.

If you or anyone has ideas for how to do this on a tight budget, let me know. I mgiht build your contraption! If you can track down some of the "unique" parts, all the better!

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

1. What's a "fireplug"?
2. Why do you need a heat exchanger?
3. Why do you think you need 4 W/gallon?


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by gsmollin:
> 1. What's a "fireplug"?
> ...


1. Fireplug. It can be found for about $200 new.

2. A heat exchanger is similar to how your hot water heater works. It's the only way I can think of making a DIY inline heater. The idea is to have the heater heat some water whcih is in contact with a barier to the inline plumbing and the heat should transfer. Any aquatic in-line heater is essentially a heat exchanger. Not sure if the answers your question.

3. Well, the 500 watter is overkill, but it's the smallest one that company makes. That's the 4wpg. I wwant to go with 2x200 watts, so if one fails, the other will handle most of hte load. If htey are both operating properly, one will just be on less often. Maybe 2x150 watts will work fine. This is mostly TBD.

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## George Willms (Jul 28, 2004)

Why don't you just do something like what Ekim did to get his heater out of the tank? Or some sort of variation on that? Seems a lot less complicated than trying to make a heat exchanger for your fishtank. Not to mention easier to adjust. Just my $.02

George

Tank specs in profile


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## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

I would be concerned about being able to control the temperature; I would think adjustments would be problematic. But then, this is coming from someone who paid $40 for two Ebo-Jagers for her 120 and was perfectly content. I can't imagine wanting to make heating a tank that complicated, but if you enjoy doing that sort of thing, Karl, best of luck with it!

http://www.wheelpost.com


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## Wally (Aug 31, 2003)

I am not sure why you are trying to hide your heater outside the tank? Just use plants to hide it inside.

But if thats what you want to do why not use a sump? There are several places online that talk about how to DIY an overflow, from the overflow go into a small tank with heater, co2 whatever and then pump the water back up and into your tank.

Another idea is to use a powerfilter with a large box like an emperor 400 or aquaclear 500 and hide the heaters inside of them. If that is too much waterflow, get the filters anyway and use a small powerhead and tube to pump water into the filterbox at whatever GPH you like.

You could also probably DIY your own hang on the back type box and use it to save a few more $$$ but you can also get an Aquaclear 500 for about $25.00 online. Or if you are like me you have a box of old filters that do not work anymore which is perfect









*Don't feel like Satan, but I am to them...*


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

I've been thinking about inline heaters for quite a while but I never got around to building one. Getting the heaters out of the tank means that you don't have to design the aquascape to hide the heaters. Putting them in a flow line and keeping them under the cabinet means that you don't have anything extra hanging off the back of the tank All-in-all it's a fairly elegant setup.

Were I to do it myself I would leave out the inner steel tube and just seal the heater -- an Ebo Jaeger, for instance -- into the top of the enclosure with the control knob sticking out. I would also but a sturdy base on the enclosure so that it would sit securely in the cabinet under the tank. I might also put a tap on the top of the enclosure to bleed off any trapped gasses.

For my 150 setup I would use two of those inline filters. Each would attach to a filter return line.

This summer I visited our city's new breeding facility for the endangered Rio Grande Silvery Minnow. That facility uses inline heaters. The tanks are set up in banks of twelve (if I remember right) and all of the equipment is in line. The tanks themselves contain only droplines, inflow lines and fish.

So Karl, I say ignore these nay-sayers and just do it







!

Roger Miller

"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein


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## Ron Nelson (Apr 2, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by kherman:
> I suppose there are several reasons:
> ...


http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop....006090712&f=8006023812&m=1346040343
[/QUOTE]

Karl,
OK now I get where you are trying to get to and why. I say have at it. I've had similar ideas to your pvc idea. If you do build it post some pictures and let us know how well it works...

Ron


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## CreativeCatfish (Aug 30, 2003)

For the inner tube or insulation, you might try finding some stainless steal shim stock. They come in sheets of varing thicknesses.

Im thinking you could roll one into a tube and line the pvc with it. It might reflect back alot of the IR heat and protect the PVC. 

Due to the nature of the product (wich is usualy a shim stock of calibrated thickness) cost might be prohibative, but this might give you some ideas to start with.

It took God 40 days and nights to flood the world, it only takes Him 5 minuets to flood your house.


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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

I think I'm beginning to understnad what you're thinking. You were mixing up the Fireplug and the heat exchanger in the same post, but they are mutualy exclusive. The fireplug contains its own heat exchanger, but costs $$ and is really too powerful for your aquarium. You want to DIY an inline heater and use a conventional submersible heater to do it. The problem is that there is water pressure in all the lines below the aquarium, and you are contemplating adding a heat exchanger to hold back that pressure while providing a thermal path for the heat.

It can certainly work, if you use a material with decent thermal conductivity. Plastics are very poor, they generally have about 1/1000 the thermal conductivity of most metals. Good materials are stainless steel tubing, ceramic tubing, glass tubing, and titanium tubing. The tubing can be sealed into the heat exchanger housing using fittings, or adhesives. You would fill the inside of the heat exchanger with water too, and submerge the heater.

Another approach is to use one of the new titanium heaters with the remote control. Just seal the whole titanium heater, and its sensor into an inline housing. The water seal would be at the line cord. This might take a little research, but it has to be practical, since the heater is already sealed at the line cord. They use some kind of compression seal, and it's quite simple. You can take apart an old heater to see. You would use some sort of packing nut to tighten a sealing string or rubber grommet around the wire.


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

*



quote:

Originally posted by gsmollin:
I think I'm beginning to understnad what you're thinking. You were mixing up the Fireplug and the heat exchanger in the same post, but they are mutualy exclusive. The fireplug contains its own heat exchanger, but costs $$ and is really too powerful for your aquarium. You want to DIY an inline heater and use a conventional submersible heater to do it. The problem is that there is water pressure in all the lines below the aquarium, and you are contemplating adding a heat exchanger to hold back that pressure while providing a thermal path for the heat.

Click to expand...

*You are a master with words! That is exactly it.


> quote:
> 
> It can certainly work, if you use a material with decent thermal conductivity. Plastics are very poor, they generally have about 1/1000 the thermal conductivity of most metals. Good materials are stainless steel tubing, ceramic tubing, glass tubing, and titanium tubing. The tubing can be sealed into the heat exchanger housing using fittings, or adhesives. You would fill the inside of the heat exchanger with water too, and submerge the heater.


This is exactly it. I'm going to look at lab ware. That coiled glass that you see as lab equipment might be the way to go. Especially if I can find some pyrex stuff. I have a fear that it might get pricey though. Anyways, I'm trying to track down a lab supply supplier on the net for this stuff. The fear is "what if the labware breaks?" A wet floor!!!


> quote:
> 
> Another approach is to use one of the new titanium heaters with the remote control. Just seal the whole titanium heater, and its sensor into an inline housing. The water seal would be at the line cord. This might take a little research, but it has to be practical, since the heater is already sealed at the line cord. They use some kind of compression seal, and it's quite simple. You can take apart an old heater to see. You would use some sort of packing nut to tighten a sealing string or rubber grommet around the wire.


I'll be also trying to track down the nut/gromet parts. I had trouble finding them yesterday. Someone at work mentioned that Radio Shack might actually have these. Basically because of the "black box" stuff they sell. The titanium heater you mentioned with the remote control is definitely a GREAT idea!!!!

I think the titanium heater in the PVC using a grmoet for a seal is definitely the way to go! Especially when the costs are considered granted I havn't found the parts(seals) yet. But once the parts are tracked down, I'm assuming that is the cheap DIY solution. This also should be the safer solution since there are fewer things that can go wrong. I might build the casing out of a metal so I don't have to worry about the PVC melting/disforming over time.

Everyone that responded. THANK YOU ALL!! And to gsmollin, thanks for this post I commenting on. If (I should say when) I go through with this, I will definitely document everything!! And in excrutiating detail!

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

*IT HIT ME EVEN HARDER THIS TIME!!!*

Just had a thought!!!!!

For the gromet, what if I did the following instead. (Numbers might change)

Made a passageway with 1/2" PVC that is about 2" long. Use this passageway to run the wire(s) through it. Use a 1/2" PVC cap on the one end and drill a hole for the wire(s) and run the wire through it. This would require for the wire to be cut and reconnected. Instad, a slot could (and probably would be) be used to slide the wire into the cap instead. Now, with the wire in the hole/slot, cemment the 1/2" cap onto the 2" length of 1/2" PVC.

Then use one of these products:
Food safe Silicone (probably the way to go)
Epoxy (aquarium safe?)
(make recomendatins







)

To pack the length with the filler. Instant seal!!! Also, a $5 solution for PVC and the filler!

How's this sound. If someone can recomend the "perfect" filler, that would be great!.

The beauty is that if the heater fails, you still need the new $30 heater. The parts to build a new chamber probably runs $7-$8, so that's a small premium to pay.

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

I just wanted to let everyone know that I am going ahead with this project! I'll be ordering some stuff online (some plumbing parts I need for the aquarium and the 2 heaters), so I'll probably do this next week in one shot. I think I'm going to also do some testing once I finish it, just making sure it is leak free without having the heater on.

some important questions (with my answers):
1) 2x200 watts OK? (yup)
2) Should I run the heaters in series or parrallel? (parallel)
3) I should try to keep the heater away from the PVC wall. How should I accomplish this? (use PVC within PVC, drilling holes on the inner piece of PVC. Keep both of the pieces centered using bushings)

By the way, I have a very god conceptual design in my head. I'll just build it and show you what I did and why.

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

I'm glad I was able to help. I have a couple other comments you may find useful.

1) A 200 W heater can be a lot of heat in a 125 gallon tank, depending upon how hot the room is already. I use only 1 W/gallon as my rule for heaters, and I generally have two heaters. In any heater setup you would like to be sure that a runaway heater is not powerful enough to cook your fish. In my case, I know 1W/gallon is the safe number. You should determine this for yourself.

2) I don't understand 2). Are you refering to the electical connections (use parallel) or the water plumbing? 

3) Yes, some sort of spider would be good to center the heater in the housing. It has to be about 90% open so it won't restrict flow. Actually, the heaters don't get that hot in operation, and are safe to be in contact with the PVC. You can put one in the water and touch it while its running to convince yourself.

The linecord seal does have one or two problems. The silicone adhesives don't cure in deep sections, at least not very quickly. The recommended depth is 1/8 inch for these adhesives. They also don't stick to PVC very well. The epoxy cures very well in a deep section, although it may not stick well to the PVC either. I would recommend wirebrushing the inside of the tube with a rotary brush to provide good "tooth" for the adhesive.

Personally, I would try for a non-adhesive solution. Maybe one of the plastic compression fittings for tubing would work. You could wrap waterproof vinyl electrical tape around the cord until the build diameter fit the compression fitting. Even better would be rubber high voltage tape; it has a permanent adhesive, and the rubber is an excellent sealent. This is the only tricky part, and probably deserves a little more planning. 

Keep us posted on your results.


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

Thanks for the comments.

1) I already order the heaters Went with 2x200 watts. The tank is going in the basement whcih won't be heated for about 75% of the time i nthe winter. And even in the summer, it is fairly cool down there. Iw was considering using 2x150 and if that wasn't enough, just plumb in a third







I feal 2x200 watts should be fine. I ended up with a Pro-Heat titanium heater. Didn't get the digital version. Would have been nice though.

2) I was referring to the plumbing. I think I am going to do a parralell setup and actually put in a a section for a third heater for "future considerations" It's porbably an extra $3 for the PVC, so why not. After all, I like building stuff









3) Granted it's optional, I'll probably do the spider just to be safe. An extra couple of bucks ...

I'll look more into how to best seal the line cord.

If I go with silicone, I'll have to do it in layers over the coure of several days. Time is free though









Home Depot has some kind of tape for plumbing that is meant to be a fix for leaky plumbing. I thought about it, but I just don't trust tape as a permanent solution.

AS for the "filler" sticking to the PVC, I will probably wire brush it, but the pressure will be coming from the inside of the PVC as that's the "high pressure" side. The silicone, for example, wouldn't come loose The pressure, in theory will keep things nice and snug.

I'll keep looking for gaskets and other filler materials. Still havn't found the perfect solution.

Thanks again!
Karl

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

I think something like a PVC compression fitting might work like the one from here.

That would still require that I pre-wrap the electrical cable due to it's smaller diameter though... Almost perfect ....

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

I started thinking about alternatives for the gasket area.

GE Silicone 1 Kitchen and Bath is supposd to be aquarium safe. I found another thread that verifies this at a reef tank site. Actually, they just GE Silicone 1 is aquarium safe as they inquired with GE Silicone's online help. Silicone 2 is bad for aquariums by the way.

I talke to a guy at home depot and he essentially said that gromets probably won't work. He's used them in the past for critical systems (440 volt motors) and they stopped using gromets/gaskets in favor of silicone and never had problems. With a gromet, you should use it in conjunction with Silicone.

I couldn't find "food safe" silicone at Home Depot, but GE Silicone 1 should be acceptable ifI go the silicone route.

*!NEW SEALING IDEA! !NEW SEALING IDEA! !NEW SEALING IDEA!*

Now for another idea. Expanding foam! I even found stuff intended for ponds! The product can be found over here:
http://www.petsandponds.com/securestore/c61359.2.html

This should work perfectly. From the site:
_"Foam Seal Black Foam Sealant"_
"The fast new way to build a waterfall. Foam Seal is an expanding polyurethane foam that quickly"
It sells for $20 canadian, so maybe $15 US. A bit expensive. I'm going to try and track down a generic equivilent. If I can find something for under $10, I'll be happy.

For a google search, I looked for:
expanding foam seal

Turned up alot of sites. I might toss i nthe work waterproof or watertight later. The beauty of expanding foam is that I can assemble the "plug" and fill it when done. Once it expands, it should form a VERY tight connection.

Any comments on this idea would be appreciated. I'm bouncing around work today, so if anyone wants to try and track down a good generic equivilent, that would be AWESOME!

Thanks for everyones help thus far!

Karl

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

Dow makes a ton of stuff, including Great Stuff which is on the maybe list.

Other products of itnerest:

VORATRON

SPECFIL 

Other stuff of interest: here

Sorry about the postings. I'm trying to keep a list of possible products here for everyones use. Eventually I hope o find a solution. Documenting the process (what a headache it's been) might be beneficial to others.

I have to say that Great Stuff and Great Stuff Pro are two VERY viable solutions! I might buy some and play with it to determine if it is a viable solution.

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by kherman:
> ...Home Depot has some kind of tape for plumbing that is meant to be a fix for leaky plumbing. I thought about it, but I just don't trust tape as a permanent solution....


I haven't seen this product, but it sounds promising. The tape is held in compression inside the compression fitting. Compressive force would be maintaining the seal, not the tape.


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

Maybe atthis point, I should just buy a roll of duct tape. it's laughable, but I bet it would work









I'm going to buy some Great Stuff or a similar product and play with that. Hopefuly I can play with it tonight.

Other ideas include running the wire through silicone tubing, using rubber tape to make the electrical wire fit snuggle, then using a metal Oring to clamp down on the rubber tabe. Flexible tubing should have a good amount of give. O-Rings are sold everywhere. This is a "safer" idea anyways.

Brain still cranking away ....
Karl

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

While looking for aquarium safe paints, I ran accross this site.

I thought about using great stuff and this site verified that it is aquarium safe once hard and dry. I've already done a test sample with 1" PVC and some heavier speaker wire (10 awg maybe?). water tight it is!! All I have to do is finish it off with epoxy sealant.

I think I will be going this route.

My final design plan. Run wires through a PVC end cap. Seal that as good as I can using silicone. Fill PVC tube with great stuff. A 4-8 inch section will be filled. I will then epoxy the exposed foam that is inside the tube.

I might add fiberglass to the equation sooner or later..... but I doubt it.

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

Which "Great Stuff" are you using? There are at least 3 grades. I remember this stuff does stick tenaciously. It's polyurethane, I remember. However, I also remember it expands forever, so I'm wondering how you are planning to use it in such an enclosed space. I have only used it on construction jobs. I sealed the sole plate of my house to the foundation, and it expanded all the way to the inside of the foundation, when applied on the outside. That's 11 1/2 inches!


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by gsmollin:
> Which "Great Stuff" are you using? There are at least 3 grades. I remember this stuff does stick tenaciously. It's polyurethane, I remember. However, I also remember it expands forever, so I'm wondering how you are planning to use it in such an enclosed space. I have only used it on construction jobs. I sealed the sole plate of my house to the foundation, and it expanded all the way to the inside of the foundation, when applied on the outside. That's 11 1/2 inches!


There are many great stuff. For my purposes, I'm not using hte Great Stuff Pro. I think you are referring to "Window and Door" and "Kitchen and Bath". I forget the one I'm using actually . It's the ones that is for indoor/outdoor use.

As for my use of it. Here's an example. I'd have the power wires going through an 8" length of 1" diameter PVC. I would fill the tube with the wire going through it using Great Stuff. Once cured, this will form a water tight seal. It sticks to PVC very well and I beleive it will ultimately bond with the wires. From my test with speaker wire, that seams to be the case.

The portion of the Great stuff that will be inside the heater casing will be covered with a secondary material (fiberglass, epoxy, etc) in order to prevent the circulating water from beating it up over time.

Once Great stuff is cured, it stops expanding.

Hope this post helped out. I think this might work. My heaters should come in the mail today or tommorrow, so the final construction will occur soon. I'll be posting the process in my construction thread.

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

Due to some other concerns with my setup, I might skip this for now and do some other method. I might just buy two of the Pentair Aquatics inline heater modules. I already have two for my filtration anyways....

Karl

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

I haven't real the whole thread (I'm at work







) but did anyone propose a cable grip fitting? They are water proof, but with some silicone it could be watertight.

*James Hoftiezer
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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

OlFLex Strain Reflief

You can get them for a buck or two in mcmaster carr

*James Hoftiezer
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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by JamesHoftiezer:
> I haven't real the whole thread (I'm at work
> ...


I talked to a guy at home depot that worked on 440 volt motors. He said they were useless and that they eventually stopped using them, instead opting to just silicone everything shut.

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by JamesHoftiezer:
> http://www.olflex.com/11012description.htm
> ...




































































That's exactly what I've been looking for! The project might be back on!!!

Doing my research now!

Thanks James!

Karl

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

I used them all the time in my design work. Get the plastic ones. Keep in mind there are a hundred different sizes. Get the best fit for what you want to do. Put the cable in the fitting and then fill the inner fitting with silicone. Keep in mind that when you screw it in, the cable will be turning against the heater. You may want to leave some extra slack or leave the heater 'loose' so that it can turn with it.

*James Hoftiezer
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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by JamesHoftiezer:
> I used them all the time in my design work. Get the plastic ones. Keep in mind there are a hundred different sizes. Get the best fit for what you want to do. Put the cable in the fitting and then fill the inner fitting with silicone. Keep in mind that when you screw it in, the cable will be turning against the heater. You may want to leave some extra slack or leave the heater 'loose' so that it can turn with it.
> ...


I think the biggest problem is the fact that I intend on using a heater with a remote style control to it. One of those titaium pro models. That might cause "tisting headaches". I could just buy some unions to resolve that issue though.

I'll wrap some tape around the wire to make it snug in the fitting so when it tightens, it should form a VERY TIGHT seal.

Here's the image for others to see:









I'm looking online for other manufacturers of similar products. I don't think my cables are going to be perfectly round, so that might be an issue....

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

I was count on you using a remote. The fitting has to be big enough for the heating element to got through. The neoprene will tighten in around the wire regardless of size, but you'll back stop that with the silicone.

*James Hoftiezer
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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

More notes for myself and others:

Remke productsRemke products - Dome-Cap Strain Relief Connectors 
Remke products - L Series Liqua-Seal® Connectors

The Dome-Cap Strain Relief connectors are the same thing pointed out by James a couple of posts up. jus ta different manufacturer.

Places to buy online:
CMCP 261 Liquid Tight Strain Relief Connectors (a bit expensive)

http://www.sealconusa.com/productsection2.htm
http://www.sealconusa.com/pvdf.htm

So far, I like the Remke products. I'm going to try and find an online source for them. I hope to order the parts by days end.

*THE PROJECT IS ON ... again*

Karl

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

I'll be hitting hte local eletrical supply place to see if they carry these. Wish me luck!

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by JamesHoftiezer:
> I was count on you using a remote. The fitting has to be big enough for the heating element to got through. The neoprene will tighten in around the wire regardless of size, but you'll back stop that with the silicone.
> ...


So, I should pass the heater through the fiting, lock it in place using the dome-nut. Then once that is done, I should use silicone to cmplete teh job of makeing it water tight. Is this correct?

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

Correct

*James Hoftiezer
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## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

I really want to try this project out, but for the time being, I'm going to plumb in the Fireplug heater I bought.

Maybe in a month or two when things have setteld down after the move (I lost half of my PVC fittings







) I'll try to tackle this project. My big fear is a catostrophic failure so I don't want to rush things. The good news is my other DIY stand thread is going to be updated soon. I have it setup in the basement, I have the 5 of the 7 lights setup and wired. Enough of the off-topic. Once I hunt my camera down, I'll snap some pics and update that thread!

Thanks James!

Karl

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Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


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## imported_csf (May 8, 2003)

I've been looking to do the same thing. Some heaters you could probably even plumb through a fitting - with the heating coils at the bottom and the dials at the top. Be careful not to break the glass for sure, but the heat transfer of the water would be much greater than the heat transfer of the air and the heater would track the temps of the water/tank. Look at the cheapest heaters, the hang on style, they do this exactly (just w/o plumbing sealing).

I'm mainly looking at doing this for my pH probe.


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