# Want to try soilmaster select charcoal but i am really scared.



## will5 (Oct 26, 2005)

Ok after reading every thing here about all the KH and pH problems.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...trates/33274-soilmaster-select-ph-and-kh.html

I am thinking that it may be stupid for me to use this in my tank.

Here are my current stats

Tap water left out over night.

pH 7.6
KH 7d
GH 8d

Out of the tanks with co2 injected.

pH 6.4
Kh 7d
GH 10d

I REALLY REALLY like the cost of soilmaster select but don't want to mess up my tank adding it. I plan to wash it very well and as long as i do it wih flourite. Flourite cost me 20.00 a bag +tax where as soilmaster select cost me 17.00 for 50lbs. Not a bad deal if i may say so my self.

What should i do?


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## Yzfr6 (Apr 28, 2006)

I have soilmaster select in my 125 gallon tank for 7 months now. I had no problems with growing plants. The only thing that I hate about soilmaster is the mess. No matter how many times you prewash it, it still leaves a mess when you touch the substrate. A brown cloud appears each time. I have put aqua soil in my 30 gallon and I love it, but for the cost to redo my 125 gallon would be something like $300.00 thats a lot for a substrate. PH and KH are fine although I still have a diatom problem which may or may not be related to the soil master. hope this helps....


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## joephys (May 9, 2006)

For what its worth, I know a few people that use it, and they swear by it. Never used it myself however. I would like to try it, but its not sold in my area.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

I personally think you should try it. The people who have issues seem to all have water with 2degrees kH or less, from the tap. I have kH of 4-5 and have used it on one tank with no issues. I also believe that initial dosing of KNO3 and KH2PO4 will help combat the kH removing tendency, though I still don't fully understand how it removes the carbonates (I suspect it has something to do with removing the H+ from the bicarbonates and due to the strength of H-O bonds it is possible that stripping an H actually breaks up the whole ion, though I have no idea)

Anyway, a good rinse and soak should alleviate your concerns or any potential problems. If you do soak it for a few days, might as well add a strong potassium source to the water and even some Mg and Ca. This should pre-load the substrate a bit-> good for the plants.


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## Jeff232 (Nov 4, 2006)

Just get it and use it. Any ph or KH problems are easily solved with baking soda and it only fluctuates the first couple days anyway. I have been using it since november of last year and have had ZERo problems. It does stir up a cloud when its disturbed, yesterday i pulled a 5 gallon bucket-full of hygrophila polysperma out roots and all, and replaced it with a patch of water wisteria that had grown humongous floating in my tank. The cloud dissipated in less than 2 hours and that was practically an entire tank being uprooted. I did not rinse, stir, or soak it either, I just dumped it in right out of the bag(dust and all) and added water, the only other thing i do is add EI ferts about once a week if i remember to do it. My fish are doing awesome as well. I will not use anything else but soilmaster in my tank, unless I cant get it anymore then ill use pool filter sand.


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

I rinsed my Soilmaster for about 30 minutes to an hour, and i did about 35lbs of it. When i stir up the bucket the SMS is sitting in, the water stays clear. Hopefully it stays the same in the tank.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

I've used Soilmaster Select (SMS) Charcoal in two tanks now with no issues. Then again, I loaded the initial fill water with KNO3 and KH2PO4 as Dennis suggested. My water is fairly hard with around 5dKH and 10 dGH.

I will soon be setting up a 120g with more SMS. I really like it though some complain that it is too light weight. I haven't had problems with planting most plants. Thicker stemmed plants without roots (i.e. recently trimmed) like Pogostemon stellatus 'Broad Leaf' and Hygrophila balsamica tend to float up on occasion but I had the same problems with Eco Complete. To me it is worth the cost savings when compared to other plant substrates out there.


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## goalcreas (Nov 20, 2006)

Well I just did a 20 long with SMS to grow out nothing but HC.
This is kind of an experiment because I will be setting up a 20 long right next to it with the same water, the same lighting and Co2 and the same dosing schedule, but the 2nd tank will be Aquasoil.
I will be happy to report back the findings as I am sure you will all be very interested to see what happens.
For the record, I expect the Aquasoil to grow it faster and possibly healthier, but I have high hopes for the SMS.
Two days after the initial plant in the SMS, with HC planted approx 1/2 distance between stems, it was pearling pretty well, so that is a good thing.

I think if I can get Chiahead to break out his camera, we will start a journal with weekly pics right after we set up the Aquasoil HC tank, probably this weekend.

EDIT: Oh yeah, in the SMS tank, we layered a very thin layer of Peat, a thin layer of Laterite, another thin layer of silica sand, then about 2.5 to 3" of SMS

The Aquasoil will go in about 2.5 to 3" thick but all by it's self.


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## feistyfish (Aug 13, 2006)

when you mention preloading the first filling of water, how much KNO3 and KH2PO4 do you actually use per number of gallons or per inches of substrate?


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## will5 (Oct 26, 2005)

feistyfish said:


> when you mention preloading the first filling of water, how much KNO3 and KH2PO4 do you actually use per number of gallons or per inches of substrate?


That is a really good question. Any got an answer?


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

will5 said:


> That is a really good question. Any got an answer?


Hmm, I thought I already replied to this...I used 10ppm of KNO3 and 2ppm of KH2PO4 for my initial fill water (based on total fill volume not the initial 4-5g of water I used to cover the substrate) for both a 75g tank and a 50g tank.


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## feistyfish (Aug 13, 2006)

oh okay. thanks matt, i mustve missed your reply on another thread.

just to clarify, you used the amount based on full volume of the tank in only the first 4-5 gal of water? or was it dosed after the full volume of the tank was filled.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

feistyfish said:


> just to clarify, you used the amount based on full volume of the tank in only the first 4-5 gal of water? or was it dosed after the full volume of the tank was filled.


I calculated what 10ppm of NO3 and 2ppm of PO4 would be for the total tank volume then added this amount to the first 4-5g of fill water. In my case this would amount to 20ml of a liquid KNO3 solution I use for dosing and 10ml of KH2PO4 solution. I added half of the above amount to a 2.5g watering can and used the watering can twice for the intial 4-5g of tank water.

I also added some mulm to the substrate from an established tank prior to the initial fill of the tank as seen in this thread.


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## Troy McClure (Aug 3, 2005)

I've have Soilmaster in a 10gal just as a test and I don't like it. The only thing I like about SMS is the color and the price. I can't speak on whether or not it will change your water params, but the light weight and mess makes it unusable for me. Matt says he hasn"t had the dust problem but there are several who have. I rinsed about 10lbs in a 5gal bucket for well over an hour and still got dust coming off it. That was a bit alarming but I still tried it anyways. Maybe it was the bags I got. Either way, I'm an AquaSoil man now. No fuss, no muss, and it's great for plants. I can't say the same about SMS.


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

I washed 40LBS of this stuff in 2 seperate buckets and after adding about 10 or so gallons of water to my 55 gal with the soil and SMS under it, i had coulding for about a day. This is with no filtration hooked up, no water movement, and no plants. I'm just getting ready for when my plant order comes in.


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

I didn't even rinse mine! I had some clouding for a day or two. Now, even when I rip out a whole patch of plants there is no dust cloud.


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## Jubs (Mar 24, 2006)

I have been using this for about a year now and I haven't had any major issues with it. I rinsed it well using mesh to really rinse it well and I never timed it but I have never spent more than 15 minutes per amount I have rinsed but I am don't do the full amount at once either I do small amounts to make sure I get it clean and I always get it to the point of running clear even with me mixing it around. 

I have not had any issues with growing plants in it either, I even have HC starting to grow and it is what I use in my emersed setup. I don't know I can't complain for the price its well worth it to me.


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

how was planting HC in soilmaster? I plan on doing it soon.


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## Jubs (Mar 24, 2006)

I use very small pieces pretty much like planting glosso not chunks pretty much one piece at a time type of planting. Its not bad I use tweezers and have come up with a method of planting with them. I usually use this method for rooted and stems where I drag the ends into the soilmaster then with my finger I cap the stems off then fill in where I dragged the ends through. I usually start at least start an inch or two away from where I want to place the plant to get some depth built up. It works for me I just setup a new tank Monday and have only had one stem and about 3 pieces of glosso come up since I setup the new tank and I am very happy about that as I use to have a tough time with getting stuff to stay in there since this is the first "plant" substrate I have used since flourite when it first came out years ago.


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