# My first real attempt at a planted tank



## ddeneve (Jan 4, 2009)

Hi this is my first real attempt at a planted tank and I am pleased with the results so far. The tank is a standard 40g breeder and I am lighting it with a 7000k 96watt power compact. There is currently no water movement or filtration being used in the tank, but that may change as I may introduce a sump for heaters and fish that don't play nice. I have used an 1" to 1.5" of topsoil under 1" of sakrete medium coarse all purpose sand. I filtered the rocks and twigs from the topsoil and thoroughly rinsed the sand prior to use. About half of the driftwood had been soaked prior to setting up the tank and held together using zip ties as can be seen in the pictures. I tested the water parameters and the conditions are as follows:

ammonia: 0.05 - 0.10 ppm
nitrite: 0.10 - 0.15 ppm
nitrate: 0 - 10 ppm
pH: 7.8 - 8.0

The pH is rather high and I am wondering if I should use any additives to lower it. I have *seachem neutral regulator* and am wondering whether I should use it or not because it says that it contains phosphates on the back and would think that might lead to an algae outbreak. I am wondering if the tannins in the driftwood would eventually lower the pH and would it be wise to wait that long. I have micro swords, vallisneria, christmas moss, hornwort and anubius nana planted in the tank.

I have not filled the tank all the way up yet because the drift wood will float off the substrate if I do.

P.S.
I am trying to figure out how to link pictures.


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## justjulie (Aug 16, 2010)

Hi ddeneve,

I'm sorry I can't help you with any advice as I am a newbie myself. But I'm interested to see what others say about your pH level--mine is way too high, too. Everything else I've tested is great - no ammonia, no nitrates, no nitrites, etc., but my pH is 8.3! And that's in all my tanks...2 planted and 2 not. My tap water is 8.1. I don't have specifics on the water hardness but I've heard the water in our area is very hard.

I read in Diana's book that if the pH is high she would do a "one time adjustment." I'm not sure what that means. How do I adjust it? Anyone have a favorite product they use? Also, do I do it once and then again after water changes? 

Most of my plants are doing okay but I'm not seeing much growth at all--all my other conditions for growth seem to be in place, so the pH might have something to do with it. There are a few plants I've tried that have melted away completely--I think they're ones that prefer acidic water. 

Thanks for bringing up the subject...and thanks to those that could help!

Julie


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## 1aqumfish (Jul 28, 2008)

I just would not get too excited about the ph (mine runs in the low 8 - 7 check my journal for pics). Are the plants growing? This is the biggest indicator. If you set in a good substrate and have a reasonable amount of light just let nature do its thing.

Tony


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## vicky (Feb 18, 2010)

I agree with Tony. When I started I was all upset about ph. It really isn't that important for most fish, and even plants. Most are pretty adaptable, if the ph is not swinging wildly all over the place, and the water is clean. Throw in as many different kinds of plants as you can lay your hands on and see what grows. Worry about design after you see what will grow for you. This is much easier than trying to make your tap water vastly different. If you feel you must treat your water, do so before adding it to the tank. I think that is what Diana means by a one time adjustment - one time before it is added. But then you really should treat the water the same way each time you do a water change. Personally, I would not use the neutral regulator in a planted tank. Pick plants and animals that like the water you have and enjoy your tank. Maybe later, after more experience with your water, you will decide to try to alter your water for more finicky types.


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## ddeneve (Jan 4, 2009)

I was planning on just letting the plants sort it out themselves and see which ones prefer the hard alkaline water, but I was really liked the look of christmas moss. I guess I will just have to go with java moss, as I've read that they prefer hard alkaline water along with java ferns, both of which I have been keeping in a unmaintained 100% sunlit tank. I only set this tank up a few days ago and I guess I will just have to wait it out to see. 

I definitely think I should get some form of water movement in the tank so that their is not too much temperature variance with the heater being in one corner of the tank. Thanks for the feedback.


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## ddeneve (Jan 4, 2009)

My guess as to the one time adjustment of the pH would be that since a natural planted tank shouldn't require many water changes that you set the pH and let the tank reach equilibrium and not try to force the pH to a certain level with chemicals. Rather try to adjust the pH of the tap water and identify any changes caused by the tank itself such as aragonite sand or peat moss.


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## vicky (Feb 18, 2010)

If your heater is fully submersible, you can mount it horizontally at the bottom of the tank. Heat rises, and this will help. You are right in that you will still want some additional circulation. I use a power head with a sponge slipped over the intake so I don't inadvertently suck up any babies or shrimp. Just rinse the sponge out in used tank water when it slows down the flow too much. In my 4' tank, I drilled holes every few inches in a capped length of pvc that fit over the output from the power head so I didn't blast the plants away. I put this horizontally at the back of the tank just under the heater. I get a nice, gentle, fairly even flow without surface disturbance that would deplete CO2.


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## ddeneve (Jan 4, 2009)




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## ddeneve (Jan 4, 2009)

Some poor pics with my cellphone a couple weeks after I set the tank up. 








Red cherry and some celestial pearl danios, the danios started spawning today.

I now have 6 denison barbs, 18 celestial pearl danios, 2 otocinclus, 6 kuhli loaches and 2 Rhinogobius rubromaculatus.

I also added a 20 high sump and overflow box mainly so the water level in the display tank stays constant so that I can go longer between top offs, but it also increases total volume


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## DishyFishy (Aug 11, 2011)

> I have seachem neutral regulator and am wondering whether I should use it or not because it says that it contains phosphates on the back and would think that might lead to an algae outbreak


I actually used this product when I fist started my tank and had an algae problem. I'm not completely sure it was the cause of the algae, but since I stopped using it I have not had the algae problem; although it may just be because I lowered my photo period. I don't use any pH buffers now and my pH is always a little on the low side but my tetra's and plants are doing fine!


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## ddeneve (Jan 4, 2009)

I ended up not doing anything for the pH. 

I replaced the lighting on my tank from a 96 watt jbj power compact with an ahsupply 96 watt power compact and the rooted plants are doing very poorly. I still used the same exact bulbs however, so I am wondering if the soil has run out of nutrients because the moss is doing fine. There is also a lot of algae on the driftwood closest to the light. 

It looks like cladophora and I am not sure how to control it. I am not overly concerened about this, but if there was an easy solution I would try it.

I am concered about the lack of growth from the stargrass and vallisneria, which is usually rampant. I am afraid that the soil could go anaerobic, but I also have malaysian trumpet snails and blackworms, although I don't know how far either of them dig into the soil.


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## DishyFishy (Aug 11, 2011)

You may have found this already but here's a good link for algae descriptions and ways to help get rid of them.
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm

Are you dosing any ferts?
I've seen others suggest running something like chopsticks through the substrate like once a week to keep the soil from going anaerobic.


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## ddeneve (Jan 4, 2009)

I don't dose any ferts. I pretty much leave the tank alone, just top off and clean the sponges for the pump. I do small 'water changes' when i clean the sponges with tank water, but that is about all i do. I am going to change the bulb on the light and see if that makes a difference. If not I will look into some substrate ferts. I saw a fert method where people take slow release fertilizers and coat them in clay and dry them to further reduce their release rates. I might try that.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Did you use the same tubes in your new fixture? They may be old, and output has decreased.

What is the GPH of your pump? More circulation may help with the algae.

--Michael


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## ddeneve (Jan 4, 2009)

I used a new pc bulb of the same make and model. I switch them every six months or so. 

I use a mag 5 return pump in the sump for circulation, so I think I am getting around 300 gph with the head loss from the sump. Not sure how much the tubing, elbows, in line heater and nozzle restrict the flow, but there is a decent amount of circulation in the tank I can see when I put food in.

I just replaced the mag 5 today with an eheim 2217 because the mag 5 started rattling like an old washing machine. This will cut down the flow a considerable amount and provide lots of biological filtration which is frowned upon in the el natural style, but I figure I'll see how it goes and try to figure out what is wrong with my mag 5.

It's just sort of a bummer that I went through all this hassle to build myself a nice wooden enclosure with fans and moonlights with one of the most recommended pc lights (ahsupply) and the plants aren't doing well.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

I don't think light is your problem, but just to be sure, what kind of tube are you using?

Having lots of biofiltration is not a bad thing--it protects you from any accidents that could cause an ammonia spike. As for flow, I suggest trying for 10x the tank volume per hour--400gph. This may mean a bigger pump in your sump, or an auxillary power head in the tank.

No guarantees, but it is the best suggestion I can offer.


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## ddeneve (Jan 4, 2009)

What pump would you suggest Micheal, just upgrade to a mag 7 or go with another brand? I was thinking of going with an eheim, but they are almost doubled the price for a comparable pump.

I also noticed that my plants usually do best when the flow from the mag 5 would be low because the prefilter on it was clogged up. They would shoot up and require massive pruning.

Another thought I had was that the upgrade in the lights may be too much light. I put in some floating plants so that if there is indeed too much light, it should soon get cut down by the growth from the floaters.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

If the plants do better with lower flow, then your sump and associated plumbing may be out-gassing your CO2. This is the only valid reason that sumps are uncommon on planted tanks. If you use a power head in the tank to increase flow, you won't be loosing much CO2.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Hi

Almost all plants grow well in hard alkaline water. However, when the pH rises to 8 or above, plants don't do as well. Then, an adjustment can be made by replacing some of the water with distilled water. Filtering through peat will also remove some of the KH that causes the high pH.

You have almost 2.5 watts of PC light. That is too much for a non-CO2 tank. The plants will be overstimulated, run out of nutrients, and algae will develop. You should aim for less than 2 WPG.

Good luck!

Bill


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## DishyFishy (Aug 11, 2011)

aquabillpers said:


> hi
> you have almost 2.5 watts of pc light. That is too much for a non-co2 tank. The plants will be overstimulated, run out of nutrients, and algae will develop. You should aim for less than 2 wpg.
> 
> Good luck!
> ...


+1!


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## ddeneve (Jan 4, 2009)

Yeah, I was thinking that there may be too much light when I upgraded the ballast and reflector. I'm going to leave it and let the floating plants soak it up. Use the "aerial advantage." After the floating plants get a thick cover I'll see how the rooted plants do. If they still don't recover, I'll check the other issues. I figure I have pretty much let the tank sort itself out for the last year and things have gone fine so I'll stick with it.


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