# New to Aquariums in general, Looking for advice to get started



## cmf0106 (Jun 14, 2010)

As the topic states I am wanting to get into aquariums as a hobby, specifically low tech fresh water planted aquariums. I have never owned fish or maintained an aquarium, but I am eager to learn. At the moment, I am simply overwhelmed with all the information I need to absorb. 


Thanks


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## digital_gods (Apr 23, 2010)

Welcome to the aquatic world. It's not difficult as it may seem. To get started I recommend starting out small 10-30 gal to help keep cost to a minimum. When getting the equipment you can get new or used. I find really excellent deals off craigslist. Know your prices ahead of time before you shop off craigslist. Here is the equipment you will need:

Tank
Hood
Lights
Filter
Filter Cartridges
Heater
Air Pump
Air Hose
Air Stone
Fish Net
Sub Straight like Fluorite (aquarium soil designed for plants. You will need a bag per every 10 gal)
Gravel Vacuum
Bucket
Water conditioner to remove chlorine like Seachem Prime
Bacteria supplement like Seachem Stability to establish the good bacteria.
Fish Food (Tetra brad is good)
Couple cheap fish (your don't want anything expensive for the first month till it is established)
Live plants

Setup is simple; assemble tank, treat water, add cheap fish and enjoy. You will need to change 25% of the water once a week to keep your fish health and your tank clean.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Welcome to APC cmf0106! As you've already found, there is a wealth of information available here to get you started. 

As digital gods stated, starting out small is a good idea. It's cheaper and problems are generally easier to fix should they arise. You specifically mentioned an interest in low tech planted aquariums. Be sure to check out the sub forum where this is explained and people have shared their experiences. Certain adjustments to your "materials" list may be needed due to your interest in low tech (i.e. using certain soil under your gravel. See that forum)

Other than what digital gods said, find some fish that you like, research them thoroughly and find out what kind of habitat they like (plants, light, temp, ph, etc).

As for plants, i strongly recommend looking in the "For Sale/Trade" forum first, you'll find great prices and can get great advice from the sellers.


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## cmf0106 (Jun 14, 2010)

Thanks for the replies so far everyone. How would I go about determining what plants are suitable for a given fish? I read several websites where they give a detailed summary for different fish, but I have not found one that states what plants a fish will tolerate.

Anyways currently I am thinking about an ADA 17 gallon tank (24x12x14), with tetras and a few gouramis. I have read they can live together peacefully under most circumstances.

I was thinking about starting off with a traditional low tech hardy plant such as java fern, as on of the tanks main plants. Perhaps anacharis for a long stalk type plant in the background.

How does all of this sound so far? I also need suggestions for a good ground cover, I have heard there is java moss as well but im not sure what the scientific name is so I was unable to find it via plant finder. Or it could be covered with some sort of plant. As long as the whole bottom of the tank is covered e.g.









Thanks


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

cmf0106 said:


> Thanks for the replies so far everyone. How would I go about determining what plants are suitable for a given fish? I read several websites where they give a detailed summary for different fish, but I have not found one that states what plants a fish will tolerate.
> 
> Anyways currently I am thinking about an ADA 17 gallon tank (24x12x14), with tetras and a few gouramis. I have read they can live together peacefully under most circumstances.
> 
> ...


For the most part, almost all fish can coexist just fine with any given aquatic plant. Almost all the plants you can get on this site from others would be fine with the fish you mentioned. Your fish choices sound good also. Try getting a good sized school of tetras going (>12) and you'll be very pleased.

As for the tank, ADA tanks tend to be nicer and more expensive than your standard pet shop tank. If you've got the money, then it's a great option. For me, i can't slap down $100 for a tank, so i go with the cheap stuff 

Your plant ideas sound good also. Java fern is one of the most common plants for beginners and experts alike, and will tolerate some abuse. As for the background, i personally wouldn't go with anacharis just because of how it looks, but if you like it go right ahead. It's actually a great plant for fish as it produces high amounts of oxygen and is very cheap. Other options would be vallisneria or aquatic "onion plant".

Groundcover. This is the harder area. If you're still looking to do a low tech tank without a lot of light, your only option looks like some kind of moss. Java moss grows fairly well in a low tech scenario and if planted right can give you the look you want. For my java moss, i get a piece of slate that is the shape of the area i want to cover, spread the moss out on the slate, and then attach wire mesh or plastic mesh over the moss and slate. This way, the moss is sandwiched between the two, and is forced to grow upright while staying put. If you choose to go this way however, it's not as easy to let it "grow" into the tank like grass would. Perhaps some other members could shed some light on better ground cover ideas.

EDIT: You could look into some Echinodorus Quadricostatus. It grows somewhat slowly, but can take lower light. In fact, i have some for sale! haha. Private message me for details about that.


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## cmf0106 (Jun 14, 2010)

flashbang009

Thanks for the input! Regarding purchasing an aquarium money is a little bit tight, but if ADA's quality is as good as people on these forums talk about id rather invest in a tank that will be great in the long run. Can pet store aquariums even come close the ADA quality?

Regarding the fish, if I add >12 tetras, 2-3 gouramis, and I also wanted to add an algae clean up crew. Im sure shrimp and snails are out of the question since the gouramis will probably eat them, but is there any more room in the fish population for about 2 dwarf octos? I have read they need a bit of space and the general rule for them is 1 octo per gallon.

As for recommending something else than anacharis, is there any particular reason you dislike the look? Vallisneria looks fantastic either way and is actually closer to the look I will try and achieve. 

As for the groundcover, I am willing to put in a high amount of light as long as I can keep equilibrium within the tank (e.g. not having to add CO2 or a expensive fertilizers). I did not see Echinodorus Quadricostatus listed in the plant finder, and thanks for your offer but I am not sure if I will be able to build this aquarium anytime soon.


Lastly, as far as other aquarium equipment goes (such as filters, and heating) I am completely lost and would appreciate any direction in this area. 

Sorry for the long post, and thanks


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

cmf0106 said:


> flashbang009
> 
> Thanks for the input! Regarding purchasing an aquarium money is a little bit tight, but if ADA's quality is as good as people on these forums talk about id rather invest in a tank that will be great in the long run. Can pet store aquariums even come close the ADA quality?
> 
> ...


No problem. ADA v. regular tanks. Two main differences. ADA has the rimless option, which provides a sleeker look. Also, ADA tanks use low iron glass, which makes it much clearer (less green color when looked at from side). Personally, those two things alone aren't enough to make me spend 5x more on a tank. Their seals _might_ be better, but i'm not sure how much better silicone can get.

I think that fish load would be fine personally. As long as you do good water changes (50% every..two weeks maybe), you should be ok. As for algae eaters, i'd recommend getting some true siamese algae eaters which are similar to otto's. You'll learn that the fish/gallon rule is a good one, but not always true.

I like the look of anacharis if you're trying to achieve a river biotope tank (using native plants and fish). As for going with java fern and stuff, it's just a personal preference. You can find that echinodorus on google if you look for it. As for other options, i'll have to think on it.

For starting off with a tank that size, i'd say just go with a regular hob filter (hang-on-back). One from petsmart will do. Just go by what the tank size says and you'll be fine. Also, you can end up spending a lot on carbon and filter material to go in it, but honestly, i'd just try to find a specialty fish store that sells filter floss by the sq. foot. I got mine for .99/sq. foot, and that would last you a month or two with a hob filter. All the carbon does is prevent smells, but that's normally not a problem with a good filter. Heaters. Try to find a cheap one on craigslist. There's really nothing spectacularly different between brands. If someone has one listed with only the watts and not tank size, search it on google. Or if you prefer, i think i may have an extra for a 20 gallon that i could ship to you for only the price of shipping (~$6).

Keep the questions coming 

Jason


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## cmf0106 (Jun 14, 2010)

This is what I consistently found for Echinodorus Quadricostatus, seems like it would be a rather thick ground cover.









For some more specific light questions, should I make sure I get a t5 light? I have read, in general, these are the superior fixtures for planted tanks. Also according to this website the Siamese algae eaters require 30 gallon tanks, and unfortunately mine will be 17.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Yeah that's what the echinodorus looks like. Mine tends to stay within half an inch of the ground with low light. 

If you can get a t5 fixture, then that is your best bet. They are way out of my price range for a 4 ft tank, but due to the smaller size of yours, it's a great option if you can afford it. I use t8's on mine as they're a cheaper option. The cfl's are also a good choice installed in a clamp on shop light. That option would cost you about $20, compared to the $100-$200 for a t5. However, the t5 is the no-fail, best option for almost all planted tanks.

Fish compatibility with tank size is just a rough estimate, and isn't really the best rule of thumb. Maybe some ottos would be better. If not, there's a fish at petsmart i've gotten before that i think is just called an algae eater. He was yellow/orange and did a great job. Probably an albino version of another fish.


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## digital_gods (Apr 23, 2010)

I pulled the florescent light out of my hoods and installed a double ended incandescent bulb fixture from home depot. I used full spectrum spiral cfls which are 6500K color. Just under $30, I went from 25watts to 52watts, equivalent to 200watts on my twenty gal tank. I have champagne taste but a light beer budget. What city are you in? I'll track down some deals for you. What is your price range/budget?

--Robert


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## cmf0106 (Jun 14, 2010)

Thanks digital_gods. As of right now I am not certain what my budget will be, but anywhere I can save money without sacrificing quality would be great. I live in Denton, Texas (North Texas area). I have never really tried a DIY project, even with something as simple as light fixtures so I may need a little extra help. Also regarding your full spectrum spiral cfls I have some questions. 1) I have read that t5 fixtures are the best and 2) I have read that spiral shaped lights are not very good because they lose a large amount of light due to restrike.

Also regarding 2-3 dwarf gouramis I was originally thinking about. I just recently read the dwarf gouramis are very territorial and will likely kill each other, so I should probably only keep one or get a bigger tank.

Lastly, when people keep discussing dwarf ottos are the referencing these sort of fish http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=830+1163. Most of those are 4 inches plus, so I am thinking I am looking at the wrong thing. Trying to find somewhere to buy zebra otos, but have not found any yet.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Here's a link for otocinclus size and tank size. I think you could get away with putting a few in a 17 gallon. Plus, it'll take them a while to get to a size that was too big for your aquarium.

I used the spiral cfl's on a 20 long, and my plants (moss, echinodorus, sagittaria) grew fine. You do lose some light to restrike, but the output is still pretty good. If anything, you could go buy them and a shop clamp light from home depot from around $20, and then return them if you don't think it's enough light. Still, the t5's are still much better.

And yes, the gourami's can become territorial. What about the gourami's do you like? Maybe we could help find you another fish that would be similar.


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## digital_gods (Apr 23, 2010)

Yes the spiral cfl do have re-strike, but for the cost of them are much lower than the t5, $5-7 vs $20 per bulb. I've found Walgreens to have the lowest price on 26w(100w comparable) full daylight 6500K spiral cfl. I have found just run your wattage little higher to compensate for the re-strike loss. I run this kind of setup in all my tanks because the low replacement cost. I have a son with behavior issues which sometimes stuff gets broken. Whether you go with Spiral CFL, H5, or Metal Halide, it just boils down to what are you willing to pay.

Here is a good starter tank for you. http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/for/1796403099.html


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## digital_gods (Apr 23, 2010)

Did you find a setup?


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