# Journal: Tributary



## Michael

At long last I am ready to set up a new tank. The technical decisions have been guided by the generous advice and discussions by members of DFWAPC, especially the threads "An (excited)word about filtration" and "Discussion of laminar vs. turbulent flow".

*Specifications*

*Tank*--40 gallon "breeder", 18" x 36" x 16" tall
*Stand*--black metal office cabinet, reinforced and modified
*Light*--48" Coralife fixture with 2 T5 NO 6700K tubes, suspended 4" above the tank. Yes, it hangs over the ends. I estimate this to be medium lighting; fixture can be raised or lowered to adjust.
*Filtration*--Eheim 2217 with coarse pre-filter on the intake, and 100% lava rock bio-media in the cannister. Intake and outflow are mounted in the middle of a short side.
*Additional circulation*--Tank layout will have two locations for Koralia powerheads to boost the circular flow pattern in the tank if needed.
*Substrate*--mineralized Miracle Grow Organic Choice potting mix with added KCl and clay, capped with natural quartz gravel and/or expanded shale.
*Other decor*--Texas "holy rock" limestone, driftwood may be added depending on appearance of stone.

No heater or CO2.

Here are some pictures of the black box. I'll post more when the stone and substrate are in. Comments, critiques, and suggestions are welcome!

--Michael


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## fishyjoe24

looks nice DDAA (leon) was selling scaping stones at the tca swap meet.
can't wait to see what you come up with...


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## Tex Gal

Bill has been inspired by the same filtration thread. Looking as his huge gathered stash it looks like he has enough equipment to power a small freshwater SEAWorld! 

I'll be interested to see what you come up with. About the rock... interestingly enough, at last years AGA conference I was talking with Karen Randall and she said that in the other parts of the world they never worry about what type of rock they use. She said with regular water changes it really ceases to be an issue. I thought that was quite interesting.


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## Michael

Thanks, Joe and Tex Gal.

I thought a long time about the rock. Most holy rock arrangements are garish and unnatural looking. A neighbor wanted to discard a pile of the stuff that had been weathering in his yard for decades. I picked through and found smaller, well-oxidized pieces with a lot of character, and not very many holes. So this will be a subdued holy rock arrangement. I also discovered that the African cichlid keepers take their rock out and power-wash it periodically to keep it bone-white and refresh the surface so that it can continue to leach minerals into the water. My rock has only had a light wash to remove loose soil--the gray, oxidized surface is intact.


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## digital_gods

I love the way your setup is going. Your lighting solution is simple yet sophisticated. I see on your intake, it looks like you have foam zip tied. That will be a pain to clean. You might want to consider just popping off the screen all together and use a foam cover. Jim (wrabbit) told me about which I tried, about the turtle foam filters inserts at Petsmart. I think its called 501? Its a round piece of foam that is just the right pore size to keep shrimp safe but lets the water flow through. The inner bore hole fits suggly on the pumps intake pipes. It works very well and after 2 weeks, it becomes a bio filter. You will be very happy with using a mineralized substraight. Don't be surprised if you have green water outbreak. All new tanks are prone to them till the plant load gets great enough to utilize the excess nutrients that might leach out of the substrianght. I'm excited and can't wait to see the updated progress shots.


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## Michael

Thanks, Robert! The intake screen on the Eheim is very easy to take off, but if it gives me trouble I'll keep your suggestion in mind. My DIY is a pretty funky solution.


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## digital_gods

Funky as it may be, it works. That is all that matters. If you ever feel the need to raise and lower the light, these Sunrise Reflector Hanging System works great. I used them to suspend the light over my tank attached to bend conduit.


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## Tex Guy

Michael,

With your freestanding installation I think the side loaded plumbing is going to be a bit of an eyesore. Have you considered drilling the tank for bulkheads? A less radical alternative is to use glass or clear acrylic return and supply?

Bill


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## Tex Guy

Tex Gal said:


> Bill has been inspired by the same filtration thread. Looking as his huge gathered stash it looks like he has enough equipment to power a small freshwater SEAWorld!


I have some adventures pending. But I want to get them off the ground before I reveal. That way if I crash and burn it can be a private humiliation!

But one pretty straightforward thing I have cooking is the laminar flow output. I made a prototype out of PVC. Well, I have some clear acrylic tubing and clear fittings. So we are going to make it again with good materials. I'll post the result.... Even if I do crash and burn.


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## Michael

Tex Guy, I'm not up to drilling the tank, but I agree that the plumbing is ugly. All the glass returns and supply I've seen are out of my price range, and I haven't come across any acrylic ones. Do you know a source? 

And I can't wait to see your laminar flow return.


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## Tex Guy

Drin knows someone who I think is pretty local to us. I'll ask her to pipe up. (get it?)


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## Tex Gal

pm sent


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## Michael

Thanks! When budget permits I will follow up. Fishman's equipment looks very good.


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## Tex Gal

He and Tab do an amazing job. They are real experts.


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## Michael

I've been working on the stone arrangement, here are some photos. There is no substrate in the tank because the top soil mineralization process is not complete.

All the black makes the light-colored stones look very stark, and they are somewhat over-exposed. The plan is for the substrate in front of the stones to be flat and rather shallow at 1" to 1.5" deep, capped with tan natural gravel. This area will have short foreground plants, with areas of exposed gravel, and some flat stones set in the gravel with a covering of moss.

The two areas behind the stones will have deeper substrate, mounded to about 3" or 4". The cap will be expanded shale--this is a mix of browns and grays and is darker than the tan gravel in front. These areas will be densely planted, with no substrate showing when the tank is mature.

I am a little worried about the depth of substrate in these areas. Do you think 2" to 3" of mineralized soil capped with 1" of expanded shale will become anaerobic and cause problems? I can build up these areas with layers of inert tile to reduce the depth of the soil.


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## digital_gods

From my experience, anaerobic is not bad if you have the right material in your substraight. The anaerobic areas in the soil have more acidic ph which helps to cheate the minerals for the plants to use. Your take will fart but that is ok. It will be a mixture of CO2 and methane. If you use peat, the tannin does have a tendency to leach out causing your water to yellow at first but it can be easily removed by water changes. I found if you use the humic compost, the peat is already broken enough that I didn't get the tannin leaching into the water. Do not use any compost with hard wood. It will release toxic noxious gas that will be harmful to your tank. (Learned that the hard way). I use 2 inches of humus compost, capped with 2 in of sand/gravel mix.

To answer your question about the depth, I don't think you will have any problems because your on the right track. Make sure your cap is thick enough so when you uproot plants, you won't have too much soil coming up with the plants. If you want to enrich the soil with iron, just spread steal wool over it before you cap with expanded shale. 

It is looking GREAT!!


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## Michael

Thanks Robert!


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## Tex Gal

Sounds like you have a plan. I would be very careful about 3"-4" depth if you are talking about the soil. I think that is too much. Anaerobic conditions will rot roots. If too much of it is disturbed it can kill your fish. If you are just putting the shale that deep with the soil staying rather shallow I think you are ok. I have read many threads where the soil too deep has poisoned the tank. I have had anaerobic pockets that have rotted the roots of my plants before.


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## Michael

Thanks, Tex Gal. I was so concerned about this that I started a separate thread in "Substrates". Davemonkey replied, saying that he had used a uniform depth of 1.5" of MTS, then layered the inert cap to the depth he wanted, up to 4".

So this is my plan, no more than 1.5" of MTS, then cap as needed. The cap in the deep parts will be expanded shale (ES) which is rather coarse and allows good gas exchange. At Phil's suggestion I am going to mix the MTS half and half with ES to add porous bulk. Phil thinks this helps to keep the soil from compacting and allows better root penetration. ES is a substitute for Turface, Soil Master Select, or Schultz aquatic plant soil--none of which I have been able to find without driving a long distance or having shipped.

Phil, I apologize if I have revealed your secrets, or misquoted you, LOL!


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## digital_gods

The place to go is John Deere Landscapes. They use to sell the soil master select but it has been phased out to the brand Turface when John Deere bought out another company. You don't need anything special to purchase from John Deere Landscapes. They sell direct to public.


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## kimcadmus

Not to sound silly but what what plants and fish will you be keeping? My understanding is the limestone increases water hardness at least it did when I kept it with cichlids way back when.


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## niko

I think that unless there only carpet plants the rocks will appear too short and maybe even eventually disappear from sight.

--Nikolay


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## Michael

Good points, Kim and Niko.

Kim, my tap water is hard and alkaline, so I already am limited to fish and plant species that will tolerate it. I'll monitor water chemistry and correct with water changes, perhaps using rain water if necessary.

Right now the possible plant list is:
Valisneria
Java fern
Anubias
Brazilian pennywort
Potomageton
Nymphaea lotus
Java moss
Dwarf sagittaria

Do you see any that might have trouble? Fish species are undecided, except for a trio of pearl gouramis that I could not resist--impluse purchase! I would like a large group of small schooling fish, silver-tip tetras or a small barb species are the likely choices. And then a somewhat smaller number of schooling catfish, like the small cories or otocinclus. I'd love suggestions.

Niko, I'm going to take the rocks out before I put the first layer of substrate in, then put the rocks on top of that. This should raise the rocks about 1" to 1.5". The area in front of the rocks will be bare gravel, with small areas of dwarf sagittaria and some flat stones covered with Java moss. I'll trim this as necessary. If these plants get out of hand, I'll take them out and try something else. Do you think it will work?

It is hard to see from the photos, but the rocks are close to the front of the tank, except for the narrow "tributary" running toward the back of the tank. The areas behind the rocks will be filled with dense medium-to-tall plants. I want these plants to be the dominant element in the tank, not the rocks. This is not iwagumi. The short plants and bare substate in the foreground gives contrast to the tall plants, and will give the fish swiming room at the front of the tank.

Thank you!


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## fishyjoe24

what about ro/di water would that help....


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## Michael

The moment of truth! The first photo is stone and substrate only. The second is planted and filled. There is an annoying reflection from the too-glossy black vinyl background.

The final choice on substrate is a dusting of KCl over the glass bottom; and 1" to 1.5" layer of mineralized Miracle Grow Organic Choice potting mix with added 30% Soil Master Select. The foreground cap is about 1" of natural quartz gravel. The background cap is 2" to 3.5" of Soil Master Select. (Thanks, WRabbit!) In my previous tanks the cap was expanded shale, and these caps were much easier to plant in.

Plants were listed in an earlier post, and the only addition is a cutting of _Hygrophila pinnatifida _(thanks, Tex Gal!). It is located just right of center, and is difficult to see among the Java ferns. Also difficult to see are two small _Nymphaea_ behind the large stone on the right.

The anubias behind the stones on the left side have their rhizomes above the substrate, pressed up against the backs of the stones. The roots are buried in the substrate. In my 20 gallon, the anubias was mounted on driftwood, and I noticed that this species showed some symptoms of defficieny until the roots reached the substrate. Then it took off. The Java ferns on the right are tied or super-glued to small pieces of lava rock that is the same color as the SMS. The lava rock was then arranged on top of the SMS behind the large stones.

I have serous doubts about the _Potomageton_ in the right corner. Some of the plants came out of a 10 gallon where they had done well. But when I pulled them out, amost no roots came with the stems. Others came out of my pond, and were still dormant when planted. The species is really beautiful when new submerged foliage comes out--it is very transluscent. Anyway, none of them may live, in which case the right side will have a BIG hole in the background. Any suggestions?


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## Tex Gal

I like it. Your gonna have to really trim the _Brazilian pennywort_. I'm surprised the _H. pinnatifida_ doesn't have more color. Mine is a greenish burgundy. I hope the _Potomageton_ makes it. It looks so good there.


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## Michael

Thanks! The pennywort may be temporary. I wanted a fast-growing stem plant that can develop emersed growth to help with establishing the tank. It might come out later.

The _H. p._ grew well in my 20 gallon, but the new leaves were light in color. In that tank it was mounted on driftwood, and since I don't fertilize in the water column, it may have been a little starved. Also, that tank is not as well lit as the new one. I hope it will develop better color and grow faster here. Maybe it will replace the pennywort!

My fingers are crossed for _the Potomageton._


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## digital_gods

Great looking tank. You got an excellent substrate that will yield great looking plants. The Dwarf Sagittarius loves rich substrates and you will have an explosion of growth. I was reading a book Foreverknight got "_Ecology of the Planted Aquarium: A Practical Manual and Scientific Treatise for the Home Aquarist_", you should check it out. I really think you will appreciate the in depth scientific knowledge the author presents.


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## Michael

Thanks, Digital Gods. Actually, Walstad's _Ecology of the Planted Aquarium_ is what got me back in the hobby. All of my aquariums have been set up using that method. With this one I elaborated a little by mineralizing the soil, and applying circulation/filtration principles from "An (excited) word about filtration".

BTW, if my funky test strips do not lie, the tank is already safe for fish. It has been planted for one week, with no water changes. I'm still going to play it safe, and do a water change and have the water tested by someone with a real test kit before I add fish.


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## fishyjoe24

Michael said:


> Thanks, Digital Gods. Actually, Walstad's _Ecology of the Planted Aquarium_ is what got me back in the hobby. All of my aquariums have been set up using that method. With this one I elaborated a little by mineralizing the soil, and applying circulation/filtration principles from "An (excited) word about filtration".
> 
> BTW, if my funky test strips do not lie, the tank is already safe for fish. It has been planted for one week, with no water changes. I'm still going to play it safe, and do a water change and have the water tested by someone with a real test kit before I add fish.


I might still have an extra test kit, laying around.. or bring some tank water, and you can use my kit to test your water.


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## Michael

Quick update:

Many of the plants are showing growth, including most of the _Potomageton_. The almost rootless ones that came from my 10 gallon are growing. The dormant ones from the pond have lost what few leaves they had, and are not growing more. Interestingly, the burried roots in the 10 gallon are sending up new leaves.

When I filled and planted the tank some scuds and baby shrimp came in with the plants. At first I didn't see them, and thought they died. But earlier this week they started showing up. The test strips still say the tank is fish-safe, so I decided to test it with an extra male Endler-guppy. He went in last night, and is swimming and happy today. If he is still healthy in another day or two, I will start adding other fish.

This tank is on a siesta schedule. For the first week it had a 6 hour photoperiod, 3-3-3. At the begining of the second week, I added an hour to the evening period. I plan to add an hour each week until the total photoperiod is about 10 hours.


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## Michael

A month makes a big difference!

The tank now has almost a full population of fish: a trio of pearl gouramis, 3 common ancistrus, 4 spotted cories, and 23 silvertip tetras. I would like to add another 4 cories.

So far, the only plant species that has not done well is _H. pinnatifida_. The one little cutting lost leaves and developed holes in the others, so I put it back in my 20 gallon, where it is recovering. Strangely, Tributary has better substrate and better lighting, but _H.p._ likes the other tank better.

The vallisneria has lost many leaves, but there are lots of new stolons, so it is adjusting.

Remember the _Potamogeton_ I was worried about? It has grown and reproduced prodigiously. Unfortunately, I can't keep much submerged foliage on it--as soon as a new shoot appears, it goes to straigt to the surface and makes big floating leaves. The slender stems are the only part visibile under water, and the floating leaves are shading the tank too much. So I am going to take it out.

Can anyone identify the oval leaved stem plant in the mid-ground, just in front of the pennywort? I got it at our meeting at Fish Gallery, but no one knew what it was. I really like it, and it may replace the _Potamogeton_.


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## niko

I love the way Potamogeton leaves look but the damn plant would not stay under water at all. I think it's pointless to even try to prune it to keep it under - it grows so fast.

I don't see the oval leafed stemmed plant in the middle.

Being the greatest internet virtual aquascaper there is I would say that on a photograph the Java Moss in front doesn't do much to make the tank look great. The fine detail of the moss that will be visible in real life is lost here. On a photograph the dwarf sag or tenellus that you have in front will look better. Also, I think, the two main groups to the left and right don't have similar elements. Instead of binding the impresion together they appear very different to this undoubtetly superior eye. As you see - when one does not do much he has a lot to say. Next time I will jump all over Kim's tanks, just wait...

--Nikolay


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## Michael

Thanks for the comments, Niko. Yes, I've given up on the _Potamogeton_. It would look cool in a riparium or paludarium. . .maybe my next project.

Just last night I was thinking that the Java moss needs to be trimmed. I envisioned very short fine-textured islands of moss in the gravel. The moss is actually attached to flat stones, so it can be reduced or rearranged easily. In life, I like the way it keeps the shrimp active and close to the front of the tank where you can see them.

". . .the two main groups to the left and right don't have similar elements. Instead of binding the impresion together they appear very different. . ." Do you mean the plants behind the rocks? I was hoping that unity would be provided by the similar rocks, the light substrate in front, and the dwarf sagitaria and moss across the front.

Maybe this isn't enough. Do you think I should reduce the number of species? Repeat more species on both sides of the tank? All of the Java ferns are attached to separate small rocks, so it would be easy to move some of them.

I'll try to take a close-up of the mystery plant.


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## niko

After doctoring the image in photoshop I see that my idea can look pretty boring and have been seen a 100 times before. To someone this photoChop version may appear gorgeous. But I'm special and don't like it much:










I got the idea of the 2 groups having similar elements from tanks like this:










But note that if you cover the red stem plants with your hand the tank immediately dies. It's not interesting at all with only the 2 groups and small differences between them.

I still think I have a good idea but I do not know how to spice it up.


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## Tex Gal

Niko you always make me laugh!! Watch out Kim!!! 

I like the tennelus in the front of Nikos image. I think if you put a small round leafed plant like lobelia cardinalis small form in the front of your rocks on the left middle side it would bring the two side together more. Trim back the pennywort a little so you can see the grasses in the back right a little more. Let the pennywort stay not quite so high. Can the rocks kind of V back to the middle? What do u think? I'm not crazy about the moss either. Maybe flame moss as bushes or fissidens might work better. 

It does really look nice though. you know that Niko, he just in sites people!!


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## fishyjoe24

it looks great to me, and just remember at the end of the day you will be the one looking at it.


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## alta678

Michael, if you are ready to get rid of the _Potamogen_ I would love to try a piece of it in my paludarium.


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## Michael

Thanks for all the comments! Alta, the _Potamogeton_ is yours. I am hosting in June, so you can get it then.

The dwarf sagittaria in front is spreading and will increase quickly. I cut all the _Potamogeton_ back to the substrate today (less messy than pulling it out), and will do a trim on the moss soon. I also cut back the pennywort and replanted the stems in place of the _Potamogeton_.

I had not thought of repeating the pennywort on the left side--it looks good in Niko's photoshop image. Keep in mind that there is a small red Nymphaea in the midground right that should get much bigger.

And I do like the idea of a small round-leaved plant on the left front.

Give me a few days to make more changes and I'll post more photos. And you can see it in person in June!

BTW, Tex Gal those Eheim pipes are really begining to bother me. The acrylic lily pipes will probably be my first major upgrade.


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## niko

Earlier I actually photoshopped another picture adding the red Nymphaea. I was not convinced it looked fantastic so I didn't post it. But look at the general idea:










The far right side definitely will need something happening there. Or not at all. This "arch" and the red lotus really leave all other areas in the dust.


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## Phil Edwards

Niko,

Would you move the lily to the left a few inches (1/2" in the photo)? It'd be perfectly placed where it appears there's a empty spot just slightly to the left.


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## niko

Here are a bunch of versions.














































Sorry, Michael. It is your tank. I do not expect you to make a single change that we discuss here.

It's just fun.

--Nikolay


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## Michael

"Sorry, Michael. It is your tank. I do not expect you to make a single change that we discuss here."

Please don't apologize! I love this! And I am going to make some of these changes.

Let's talk about the hole in the middle. This is my atempt to use negative space; emptiness as design element. In 3-D, the rocks and light-colored substrate lead the eye into this empty space. I think my poor photography has not shown this.

Do you think hole in the middle is a mistake? Do you think a different colored background would make the hole more effective?

I promised to post more photos soon, but maybe not. Maybe the design changes will be a tease to get people to come to the next meeting, LOL.


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## Tex Guy

I think your use of negative space essential to a balanced layout.

fwiw...


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## Tex Gal

I don't like the lilly in the middle. I like the negative space. I don't like the pennywort on both side. I think it looks too contrived. I think you just need to be able to see the long grasses in the back on the right side. When the bacopa grows a little more on the right it will add some interest. I think I would pull the lilly in front of the rocks on the right. Keep it short and just a few leaves- the size Niko has photoshooped it. That with the bacopa behind it and the grasses behind it will give you depth. L. cardinalis on left in front of the rocks repeats leaf shape of pennywort, with rocks behind and anubias behind and grasses behind gives depth. All leading to deeper void space in middle. 

So - now that you have a million opinions, we will all stay tuned to see what you come up with. Group project here!


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## Michael

Time for an update. My lack of photographic skill continues to frustrate me.

1. Some small stones and a lot of substrate have been added at the back. The substrate now slopes strongly from the back to the front in this area. The intent was to add some interest without filling up the negative space. I've also added some dwarf saggitaria here.

2. Per Niko's suggestion, some pennywort was added to the left side. I think this is an improvement, especially since the vallisneria continues to dissolve. I'm sure it will come roaring back.

3. Per Tex Gal's suggestion, I added a small round-leaved plant in front of the large rock on the right. It's Sunset hygro, not the ideal species for this spot, but it let me see the effect, and I like it.

4. One of the flat, moss-covered stones was removed, and all of them got a severe trim.

I didn't move the nymphaea because it is establishing well, and I've had trouble with this species before. But if I had another one, I would put it in front of the large rock on the right, partially obscuring the "cave".

Tex Gal, I couldn't expose the grasses in the right rear because these are the failed potamogetons, and I took them out. But I like your idea, so I'm thinking about adding a tall, very fine textured grassy species there. It needs to be similar in growth habit to vallisneria, but with much narrower leaves. Maybe a tall hair grass, or some really skinny vertical stem.

My dead-center frontal photos of the tank fail to show its depth, so I've included an elevated oblique shot. It helps a little.


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## digital_gods

Grab some Spike Needle Rush from one of your lake shores to use in your tank. It can grow completely submersed.


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## fishyjoe24

what type of rock did you use, as that gives me ideals for a tank. i got tufa but am worried about the calcuism that tufa rock has...

Edit: found my answer.
Other decor--Texas "holy rock" limestone, driftwood may be added depending on appearance of stone.

would tufa work?


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## Michael

I don't know.


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## Michael

The plants have filled in a lot since the June meeting, with accelerated growth in the last few weeks despite no change in maintenance (water changes only). The dwarf sagittaria has almost completely filled in the area that was supposed to be bare gravel. In hindsight, I might have slowed this by not putting any soil under the gravel where I wanted it to remain exposed. I also find the sagittaria rather coarse--as Tex Gal observed, _Helanthium tenellum _would have been a better choice.

The fish continue to thrive, and the shell dwellers (_Laprologus ocellatus_) have become the stars of the tank. Some new, better looking shells are largely obscured by the sagittaria. I can't recommend these little fish highly enough. In fact, my current daydream is a planted Tanganyikan biotope full of these little guys.


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## Tex Gal

Very pretty. Too bad that pxs just can't capture the true 3D beauty of these tanks in person. I guess we all just have to settle. The good news is that I have had the pleasure of seeing this one in person! :0)


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## fishyjoe24

Tex Gal said:


> Very pretty. Too bad that pxs just can't capture the true 3D beauty of these tanks in person. I guess we all just have to settle. The good news is that I have had the pleasure of seeing this one in person! :0)


yes they are some really nice tanks, looks like some of the plants could use a tirming.


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## digital_gods

I see a crypt bloom. How did you get your crypt to bloom? Your tank is very beautiful. The dwarf sag does funny stuff depending on the amount of light and nutrition it receives. Under high light, Alex and I have had it grow 14" tall. I've had it under low light conditions to keep to a low carpet. I've resorted to manually trimming my carpet to 3"-4" in height once a month(not a easy chore). It seems to get stunted for a little while. Just a heads up if you see the plant really liking your tank conditions.


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## Michael

Robert, that is an _Anubias_ flower. When I set the tank up, three of the _Anubias_ flowered. I have no idea why. The flowers last for months, so you are seeing an old one.


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