# Styrofoam & Tanks



## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

This DIY question goes out to the brothers and sisters in the hobby that live in very cold climates. 

Luckily right now we are (most of us or half of us?) are able to enjoy the warm weather which completely changes everything working with our aquariums. 

I have picked up some styrofoam boxes from the Vets office closest to my work so I could ship my trimmings when I 'harvest' my plants and get my tanks into shape (or restart with a very small quantity of the plants that I currently have). 

Some of these boxes have been extremely large. Some have been smaller. One of the large ones was almost wide enough to completely fit a 10 Gallon Tank inside of it (with the styrofoam lid on top). These boxes are wonderfully sturdy and THICK (2 inches thick!). They are DESIGNED for shipping to Vets' offices. 

I have purchased styrofoam to put under a brand new tank to make sure that it is level. These styrofoam 'boards' are not as sturdy or thick but they are what the store had. They were 48 inches long and maybe (I forgot) 12 inches wide. I hope to find another store with something more sturdy. I have not found a way to cut them as clean as I would like. Although I have a purpose in mind here, I would still like a way to make these temporary, removable and even better attractive (when removed).

These might cover the back of a 10 Gallon tank, but are a little too short to cover a 20 Gallon Tall Tank. 

So here is my question. Have you ever covered your tank or its sides during the frigid cold months with styrofoam boards to keep your tanks warmer or more consistently warmer? For me I am at work most of the day and get to look at my tanks late at night when I get home. Most of my newer tanks are in my basement. This is the scenario. Or someone's garage. 

Did it work well? Did it cut down your electric bill any? (for the heaters in the cold months)

I figure the white color would be somewhat reflective of the light from the fixtures and might be somewhat beneficial for the plants? 

What are your experiences with using styrofoam at all with your tanks? 
Please tell what worked for you in the cold frigid months. 

Thanks.


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## Dataseeker (Sep 3, 2006)

Jimbo – I have in the past used Styrofoam to insulate some smaller tanks I keep in a basement location. Because the top of the tanks were not insulated, I don’t think the setup was that efficient in preventing heat loss. Any insulation on the sides will help of course. I don’t know if I would trust the weight of a tank on top of a piece of foam. Foam material comes in various densities as I ‘m sure you know. My guess is that if it were soft enough to displace for surface irregularities, it might just collapse under the weight of a tank of water. 

I have seen the foam containers used for shipping fish from breeders used as a tank. Observing the contents is all done from above which sort of defeats the purpose especially if there are plants to observe. Those that I had seen were used for just raising fry. Depending on the number of tanks involved, it might just be simpler to build one big box around a shelf where the tanks are kept. The heat that the lights generate can be recycled so to speak. Just some thoughts---


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Dataseeker. Thank you. The foam I used was between the tank and the table which is very sturdy. 

The raising fry is an interesting idea. 

I was able to spend some time at the Home Depot near work to get some ideas. I am considering moving my 10 Gallon El Naturale Tank in front of a basement window for natural sunlight. This spot would be extremely cold in the dead of winter. But I figure I could put a cold frame 'box' around the tank to protect it during those months. Hmmm...

Of course I am also considering remodeling part of my basement. I love the idea. Just is not as quick to do as just a tank (ha,ha). I am very seriously considering building a 'fish room' in my basement. 
A friend is an electrician. I am thinking of assisting him with his sheetrock in exchange for some help in my basement. Now if only I did NOT work 7 days a week......


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## Dracolique (May 28, 2007)

> I don't know if I would trust the weight of a tank on top of a piece of foam


I have a 250 gallon aquarium which sits on a 1/4" thick piece of foam insulation that I got at home depot. I did it this way because I bought the tank in pieces and re-sealed it myself, and I was not 100% certain that the bottom was completely, totally level... so I use the foam to help distribute the weight evenly across the bottom of the tank.

Anyway, the foam doesnt even compress all that much even though the total weight of the glass tank and water is greater than 2500 lbs.

I suppose what really matters is the bottom surface area of your tank. Mine is a 250 long. (8' x 2'), or 2,304 square inches of surface area on the bottom. When you do the math, the total weight comes out to slightly more than 1 pound per square inch. Even very thin, light duty foam ought to be able to handle that.


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## Dataseeker (Sep 3, 2006)

Interesting concept. I guess foam under a tank can work. Back to the original question., conserving heat for tanks in very cold locations. Jimbo, if you have the space and can put together the resources for a “fish room”, that would probably be a good choice. Insulating a number of individual tanks with Styrofoam becomes quite a chore in itself. Then you have to contend with not being able to look into the tanks from the sides easily. Using conventional 2” x 4” framing with high R value insulation and maybe considering a 1 – 2” foam board overlay on top, you will probably save the cost of the materials in utility bill reduction over a couple years. Maybe sooner depending on how cold it gets where you are. Make sure you insulate the ceiling as well. Sounds like a fun project.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

I am not the best or the most experienced DIY man but I received some motivation this spring for this idea. 

My wife and I were relaxing on the back deck enjoying the first day of this year's warm weather. While we were relaxing I was looking at our latest power bill. I made a comment to my wife about the electric bill during some of the cold months compared to the natural gas bill. 

She came back with, "Maybe we should get rid of some of your tanks!"

I don't remember if I said anything or not. If I were smart at the time, I probably did not say a word. 

But the gauntlett was thrown down. 

The actual numbers you may be correct about. I really don't know. Whenever I try to figure out how much money I would save with purchasing, installing and using a wood pellet stove compared to what I pay ever winter drives me nuts. Figuring out the power bill drives me nuts. 

I just know that in NYS our power bills are nuts. 

So to justify my obsession with this hobby, in my mind, I had to be able to say, "________________" (think of something good to say) about my tanks - and they really cost almost nothing at all. 

I think I am the only one in the house that looks at the tanks (probably) and I am only able to look at them for 15 minutes to 1 hour tops.

With what I saw at Home Depot, I think the hardest part would be cutting clean lines and edges with a razor cutter (name escapes me now) that you use to cut pink insulation with. 
I figure if I use the hard styrofoam boards (1-2 inch thick) and make good cuts, they may actually be quite easy to put up and take down. I figure most of the heat actually goes out the sides and not so much the top. Just because the light compensates for heat lost. Maybe not. I hesitate about the idea of covering the top. Hmm...

I just like the idea and challenge of this and wonder what your typical engineer or handy man on this site would say. 

Of course, getting the 'room' done in the basement would be preferable.


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## Dataseeker (Sep 3, 2006)

I will say this, “I am going into more detail on this subject than I ever thought I would.” Considering its potential for saving money, (whatever that may be) it’s possibly worth it. Probably not. 

OK so here goes – cutting the foam. A utility knife would be a good choice if the foam were no thicker than the length of the blade, about an inch. If you need to make a cut from both sides of the foam with 2” foam holding the knife vertical accurately so the cuts meet, is a chore. You would need some kind of fixture. A hot wire cutter would work but the edges seem to come out rough with Styrofoam. You also need some kind of fixture to guide the foam. A table saw is the best choice. The cuts will be perfect but you will need to rig up a vacuum near the blade. If you think your wife’s comments about your tanks are interesting, wait till she sees you walking around covered in pink foam dust. 

Calculating the savings in utility costs--. Here in New York State where I live, the cost of energy is directly proportional to the number of golf outings the power company executives go on. The charges certainly don’t relate to whatever other companies are charging. Suggest to your wife that the therapeutic value of the fish tanks is more than worth the costs involved to fill in the blank in your notes above.. 

Calculating the heat loss--. Assuming the tanks are covered with a hood or glass of some kind, that helps. I assume they are not open top tanks with lights hung above. I also assume the lights are off for some period of time. A lot of the heat will travel upward. As it would be impractical to place foam directly on top of the lights, (depending on the type of lights) heat loss will occur mostly from the top of the tank when the lights are off. You will have to be careful not to be too efficient with the insulation and have the heat from the lights overheat the tank. To see the impact of the cover try this experiment. Fill a Styrofoam cup with hot water. Measure how long it takes to cool ten degrees with a cover on the cup and with no cover. Do this again with a cup inside another cup. Cooling time will be about the same. 

I don’t know if any of this helps to save money. Writing your power company suggesting less golf outings may be more beneficial in the long run.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

ound: I LOVE IT!

Okay, Dataseeker are you an engineer, contractor or an environmental scientist? 

I just love it. Especially the jokes about the golf outings. Classic!

The rationality I just love. 

Even after we had the energy audit and they said the insulation on our house was fine, and the wife said that she saw the infra red camera; well, I just know which part of the house is COLD. 

I have uploaded some photos from my Fuji Film S700 to my computer last night. I will try to upload them to photobucket tonight. I will try to post one or two. 

It is amazing what you can do when you are trying to pinch pennies. 
It is also amazing when we have money to blow what we can do in this hobby. :happy:


.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Dataseeker, if you are also interested in outdoor gardening; they say the use of styrofoam helps roots of seedlings stay warm or stable during the pre-Memorial Day weather. I used this product last year or the year before and had positive results. For those that like to start their own seedlings rather than purchase transplants. My wife only does transplants.

http://www.gardeners.com/seed-starting-tray/default/StandardCatalog.APS_Cat.03-239.cpd

I like during February, March, and April to think about warmer weather. Starting seedlings to me is as much fun as Aquatic Plants. :smile:


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## Dataseeker (Sep 3, 2006)

Jimbo – I’m glad my feeble attempt at tongue-in-check humor left you with a chuckle. This being a planted tank and fish keeping forum, I should be careful with remarks that could be considered political. If there are any actual power company executives in our midst, please except my apologies. I’m sure you have enough trouble staying out of the rough. Oops, there I go again.

Hey, I’m all for saving money. In a cold basement some foam panels around the tank with maybe a few Velcro tabs on the front so you can remove it and look in would definitely conserve energy. How much that equates to in exact dollars saved would be tough to figure out.

Both my wife and I also enjoy gardening. I will check out the link provided. Thanks.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

> In a cold basement some foam panels around the tank with maybe a few Velcro tabs on the front so you can remove it and look in would definitely conserve energy.


 Ooo! Velcro Tabs. I like that idea.

I will ask my wife to do the calculations the next time she brings up the subject.

But then again, she thinks I blow wads of dough on this hobby.

That is EASILY done.

It is more of a challenge to actually try to do this on an extremely tight budget.

Then when the wads of $$$$$ come falling out of the sky, you know EXACTLY what to blow (invest) it in.

And then again, I have also learned that with very good friends it is amazing what you can do!


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## strange_screams (Apr 10, 2005)

there is a tool to cut styrofoam, and its pretty cheep, i got one at hobby lobby, or a modeling store would proabably have them too. Its a wire suspended with a canister at one end that houses a batterie. you turn it on by completing the connection and the wire gets hot, just hot enough to cleanily cut through styrofoam


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Deep in winter in my spare time, building my MAN CAVE office / fish room is slowly coming together. 
Building the walls was/were fun. Now that I have learned how to do this, I will eventually do the entire basement. Of course the means moving everything along the walls to do so. 
Putting on joint compound - is kind of fun. Having to wait 24 hours for each layer to dry - well, slows it down. 
Putting Primer on on the walls - is more fun. 
Wet sanding walls - not as fun but probably extremely important. 

I finally got my friend electrician Jeff (who knows NOTHING about fish tanks) to meet me in Home Depot to go over options for lighting. Good thing too. He suggested something completely different. 
Because I am putting up 12" x 12" white ceiling tiles (sound/insulating properties/moisture resistance) - Jeff said that recessed lights that I could dim (I told him the room was for relaxing in) would be more relaxing than workshop/basement flourescent lighting. 

Now I am finally tearing down the old firring strips on the joists and putting up 1" x 3" firring strips 12 inches apart with vinyl sheeting above the strips to again protect against humidity. 

Of course at 4 am in the morning my wife said I was making too much of a racket and to stop....... 

Getting started is the hard part.. in the dead of winter.


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