# My inadvertent High PO4 experiment



## EcleckticGirl (Jul 26, 2005)

As some of you were following my algae battle last week probably know, I dosed my tank with generic Fleet enema before thoroughly researching. My 20 gallon tank got a 10ml dose (what I later learned from matpat was 17 times the weekly recommended dose) the Friday evening before the planned Satureday water change, so I naively thought I wouldn't do a great deal of harm.

The wc went off as planned; I tend to do generous 60% or so changes. Sunday evening I reported that I had apparently melted my anacharis and we have been chuckling about it here among ourselves and I replaced it with stuff floating in a grow out bucket. Today things aren't so easily shrugged off. I am also noticing melting among the following plants:

Limnophilia aromatica
Blyxa japonica
Crypt (old ratty leaves, so far new hardy leaves seem OK)
Egeria densa (the replaced stuff is not doing well either)

I just did a 25% wc to clean out some remaining algae and to vac up some of the melting foliage. _sigh _The Blyxa is looking rather raggedy in the foreground and I am sure glad the Limnophilia is behind the Java fern; it's so skeletal now.

There's my story. Any other suggestions? Besides keeping the tank clean, keeping the roots planted and letting the plants grow the foliage back?

Anybody got some fast growing stem plants to help me ward of the algae _now_? I am out of anacharis now. The H. Zosterfolia seems to be doing alright, but it's not _that_ fast.


----------



## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

As far as suggestions, add some KNO3 to the tank. If your tank was at all PO4 limited, an increase in PO4 will cause an increase in NO3 uptake. Low NO3 levels can lead to algae and melting plants. I would suggest you add a 1/4 tsp to the tank. This will give you more NO3 than you need but you already have a lot of PO4 in there unless you did multiple water changes. 

This is one of the reasons a lot of people dose their tanks with separate dry ingredients. If you over do one, you can compensate with a little more of another.

I do have some Najas indica and maybe some Najas guadalupensis ( I can't get rid of this stuff). They ae fast gorwers and will help a bit. As far as stems I have a few of those also. 

How are your CO2 levels?


----------



## TWood (Dec 9, 2004)

EcleckticGirl said:


> Sunday evening I reported that I had apparently melted my anacharis and we have been chuckling about it here among ourselves and I replaced it with stuff floating in a grow out bucket.


Huh, well that explains something with -my- PO4 overdose experiment. I started a copper sulfate routine and a UV sterilizer at about the same time a couple of weeks ago. My PO4 test kit subsequently reported readings completely off the chart. I thought the copper might have been messing with it. But now I think all the algae die-off released byproducts into the water, including a lot of PO4. Some new anacharis just rolled over and quit. Anacharis. The most easy plant in the world, and I killed it?

One of the goldfish in the tank also developed a hyper-sensitivity to light because of the chems in the tank. I've done several large water changes and things are just now getting back to normal.

TW


----------



## EcleckticGirl (Jul 26, 2005)

MatPat said:


> As far as suggestions, add some KNO3 to the tank. If your tank was at all PO4 limited, an increase in PO4 will cause an increase in NO3 uptake. Low NO3 levels can lead to algae and melting plants. I would suggest you add a 1/4 tsp to the tank. This will give you more NO3 than you need but you already have a lot of PO4 in there unless you did multiple water changes.
> 
> This is one of the reasons a lot of people dose their tanks with separate dry ingredients. If you over do one, you can compensate with a little more of another.


OK, I just added the KNO3, a 1/4 tsp. as you suggested. When I was there, I have to tell you the water was nearly sparkling clear after the water change and the filter running since the wc that I did right before I started this thread!



> I do have some Najas indica and maybe some Najas guadalupensis ( I can't get rid of this stuff). They ae fast gorwers and will help a bit. As far as stems I have a few of those also.


I may need to come by tonight for some of that, given the state of the anacharis. Thanks.



> How are your CO2 levels?


How do I test that with my dipsticks? The venturi reactor is running, I have a mist and the Java fern and H. zosterifolia nearby are pearling since I just did a wc.


----------



## EcleckticGirl (Jul 26, 2005)

Oh, and I am getting 24 bubbles per minute. I changed the DIY yeast last night so that it could settle into something steady overnight while the lights were off. I have noticed that there is a sharp drop off in bubble rate between days 5 and 7 so I have been switching it out at 6 days rather than 7.


----------



## EcleckticGirl (Jul 26, 2005)

TWood said:


> Huh, well that explains something with -my- PO4 overdose experiment. ... But now I think all the algae die-off released byproducts into the water, including a lot of PO4. Some new anacharis just rolled over and quit. Anacharis. The most easy plant in the world, and I killed it?


That's what we'd been chuckling about here too. Dineen killed anacharis??!!



> One of the goldfish in the tank also developed a hyper-sensitivity to light because of the chems in the tank. I've done several large water changes and things are just now getting back to normal.
> 
> TW


I am glad things are settling back to normal for you. Just how large of changes did you do, how frequently, and over how much time?


----------



## TWood (Dec 9, 2004)

EcleckticGirl said:


> I am glad things are settling back to normal for you. Just how large of changes did you do, how frequently, and over how much time?


I've done four water changes in six days. The first two were about 40%, then a 60% and then a 80%. The PO4 test kit stayed off the chart until after the fourth water change.

TW


----------



## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

EcleckticGirl said:


> How do I test that with my dipsticks? The venturi reactor is running, I have a mist and the Java fern and H. zosterifolia nearby are pearling since I just did a wc.


That is a good question...You would need to get as accurate as possible reading from your pH and KH on the stick. I guess you would hve to focuson those two first, then use the pH/KH relationship chart or Chuck's calculator that is in a sticky at the top of our forum. It will be a guestimate but with our water it will most certainly be on the low side.


----------



## Troy McClure (Aug 3, 2005)

I've been wanting to test high PO4 in my 10gal. I'm dosing 12ppm NO3 on Sunday after WCs, Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday. On those days I add 2ppm PO4. I was thinking of trying 4ppm PO4 for a couple weeks....


----------



## EcleckticGirl (Jul 26, 2005)

MatPat said:


> How are your CO2 levels?


Well, given the huge gaps the Mardel gives between color swatches the best range I can come up with is that I have 11-17 ppm CO2 concentration. I won't be killing fish according to the chart I found on the krib. Finally after re-reading, I see enough dashed lines to see that falls in the target range according to the chart's author.

Here is a link to some useful tables, Matt. It's where I found the place to convert the alkalinity from ppm to dKH.http://fins.actwin.com/reefkeepers/reefkeeper3.html

Other tables too.


----------



## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Troy McClure said:


> I've been wanting to test high PO4 in my 10gal. I'm dosing 12ppm NO3 on Sunday after WCs, Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday. On those days I add 2ppm PO4. I was thinking of trying 4ppm PO4 for a couple weeks....


I say give it a shot! I don't think you will have any problems unless you let the NO3 fall too low. Then again, since you have been runnng the tank with higher PO4, you may not notice any difference by bumping it up more.

I think it mainly effects those who have been running lower PO4 levels. Once they bump up the PO4 through a dosing miscalculation or what have you, then the NO3 drops so they assume the PO4 caused algae! At least that is my hypothesis...


----------



## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

EcleckticGirl said:


> Finally after re-reading, I see enough dashed lines to see that falls in the target range according to the chart's author.


I think those ranges are off given today's more intense CF lighting. I think it may have been more appropriate back then since 2-3 wpg of shoplights was the norm over tanks. I think with todays higher lighting, we really need to have 25-30ppm of CO2 in the tank during the photoperiod.


----------

