# Which deficiency is this?



## eclipse29 (Jun 16, 2010)

Ok I'm going to try and upload my pics, but here is my problem. Swords have dark veining while my hygrophila and another (not sure of the name) have whitening of the veins and new growth is curling. My HYDROCOTYLE is very white green at the new growth and the older leaves have dark green veins. My current dosing is as follows : Fe- 15 cc N- 5cc PO4- 20cc Trace- 10cc Flourish- 5cc Excel- 5cc. That goes in once a week with my 10 gallon water change. I dose every day with 15cc of Fe and on wednsday I dose the trace , flourish and excel again. I have 120 watts in two lamps - 55wt 6700k and 65wt 10000k. They are on for 9 hours with an hour break in the middle of the cycle. There are 22 varieties of plants in the tank, only 25% of the tank is plant material. They are mostly small starts right now. I also have 48 fish, also fairly small. My reading today 24 hours after a water change is as follows: Ph-7, Gh-8, Kh-6, NO2-0, Fe-.1, PO4-.25, Ca-3, NO3-20. All my ferts and water conditioners are Seachem and I use a Hagen master kit to test with. My CO2 is checked with a drop checker. CO2 is pressurized and disspersed through a power head designed for a protien skimmer. It actually draws the CO2 through the impeller then out with the water stream creating as fine if not finer bubbles than a glass diffusser. I hope that gives enough info, I know I'm asking alot. Sounds like I might need more micros though.


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## Elohim_Meth (Nov 4, 2007)

How that could be, Ca 3 (ppm?) and GH 8 ?
With such GH your Ca must be about 40 ppm. Are you sure you're using Ca test kit correctly? Maybe you need to calibrate it.
And what is cc?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi eclipse29,

Light colored leaves with darker veins is called interveinal chlorosis and is typically an indication of an iron problem. Here is where I go when I have a deficiency problem.


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## eclipse29 (Jun 16, 2010)

cc is cubic centimeter. the directions on th ebottles say that one capful is equal to 5mm. I dont have any syringe with mm on them so I filled up the cap and then sucked up the fluid in the syringes that i do have and it was 5 cc. The hagen test took 3 drops to turn color for the Ca test. Not at home now so dont know what that translates to for ppm, but the suggested amount is 2 drops to change the color so I'm a little high. Hope that makes sense. I was dosing with 10mm of Fe but finding that 3/4 through the on cycle i wasnt registering any iron at all, so i added another 5mm. Would high Ca levels deplete Fe quickly? Thanks for the help! The plants are pearling quite well.


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## eclipse29 (Jun 16, 2010)

Seattle Aquarist, thank you I did go there and thats why I increased my Fe dosing. Do u think the curling is a seperate issue or connected to the Fe deficiency. I think i've got a couple of problems. Elohim Meth sorry I didnt explain the results better. I'll try tonight to get the ppm equivelants.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi eclipse29,

You indicated you use the Seachem line (which I like). Which products are you using? 

Are you also dosing Seachem Equilibrium which would help your Mg and Ca levels? I use Equilibrium and like it a lot. I used to use Epsom Salt and CaCl or CaSO4 but Equibrium is much easier and has several necessary micros. If you have adequate Fe then it may be Mg.


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## eclipse29 (Jun 16, 2010)

All my water conditioner and ferts are seachem, thought that would make things easier that way. Yes I use Equibrium, at 1 and 1/2 teaspoons per 5 gallons of water along with their differant buffers (non phosphate) and Prime to treat the tap water. Is it normal for the Fe to completely dissapear before the end of a light cycle? Like 4 hours before? I tried adding another 5mm of Flourish this morning. I'll see the results tonight when I get home and let you know what i find.


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

Couple tips:

a) Don't think in terms of ccs or mL dosed, but by ppms dosed. This translates better for maintaining a tank, isolates the levels we care about, and helps when you discuss what you're doing with folks who may not be familiar with your dosing mix. 

b) Your posted numbers with very little PO4 within hours of the water change suggests your tank is PO4 limited (as soon as you dose it, your plants gobble it up!), and I think the symptoms in your plants support this idea. (In addition to the veining and poor growth, your pictures also show leggy old growth in stems and I'm guessing some old leaf loss.)

Why only dose macronutrients with water change? Up for trying to make that PO4 dose every other day for a while? If you do not see improvement in, say, a couple of weeks, a big water change will get you back to where you are now. I am pretty sure you'll see an improvement, though. 

That two week suggestion is for your piece of mind, by the way. You have lots of fast growers but it may still take them a little longer at the adjusted dosing to heal. While you troubleshoot you're looking for improvement.

However, once you remove the PO4 limitation, you'll likely notice the other macronutrients (specifically your test-able NO3) drop quickly. Even with "25% plant mass" (I'd call it heavily-moderately planted with stems that have not grown up yet) you should consider increasing dosing. The Hornwort, Hygrophilia, and Wisteria alone should provide plenty of confidence that your plants will uptake quickly.

HTH!


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## eclipse29 (Jun 16, 2010)

Thanks wet! I'll try and convert my doses to ppm. I did notice tonight that the severe yellowing reversed alot and the veining diminished a little. Wet, the stems you see are from store, I got their less than ideal looking plants for a good price. Actually almost half of my plants in the tank now are from garbage, litteraly(I asked if I could have what they were throwing out and hesitently he said...ok). Elohim Meth my Ca is at 60ppm. Iwas having a spike in my PO4, 5ppm even after a 2/3rds water change so i got scared to add to much. never did find out the cause. I thought it was the seachem root tabs but was told that they didnt have that much PO4 in them. After I did a major water change and moved some of those tabs around it got much better. One of the four were removed. Ok so keep the PO4 at 1ppm and the Fe between .25 and .5 ppm which will be a daily dosing.


> Why only dose macronutrients with water change?


 Idose with Seachem Trace and Seachem Flourish at water change and in the middle of the week. Thanks for all the advice


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## eclipse29 (Jun 16, 2010)

Ok my CO2 is 28ppm, Gh-9, NO2-0, Fe-0, PO4-0, Ca-60ppm, NO3-30ppm. Did the math for the seachem phosphate and dosed accordingly to bring the level up to 1.0ppm. Also added Seachem Iron to raise up to aproximately .5ppm. I'm going to check the tank in ten minutes to see where the PO4 is at. Thanks wet for the suggestion of dosing that more regularly. I'm willing to try whatever works


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## eclipse29 (Jun 16, 2010)

Ok this morning added much more Seachem Phosphorus and iron. BIG change tonight. That beautiful flourescent green came back to my hydrocotyle and some tips have slowed their internodal growth it looks like. I registered .25 ppm of PO4 and 0 of Fe. Tommorrow I will dose more accordingly. Thanks for the help. I'm not dosing potassium by it'self yet should I worry bout that or wait till I see signs of it's lacking? (Or should I ask that in another thread?)


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi eclipse29,

Nitrogen, potassium, and phosphorus are macros and should be dosed regularly.


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## eclipse29 (Jun 16, 2010)

Thanks for all the help everyone!!! Ok now I'm dosing heavily daily with Fe and Po4. Still waiting fior the potassium to come in with a test kit for it also( the Hagen master kit doesnt test K) . Keeping all the ppms right where they should be, but its taking alot of ferts to do that. 5-7 capfulls a day of both seachem iron and seachem phosphorus and I barely have any trace of them when I get home with 3 hours left on the light cycle. My hydrocotyle old growth leaves are 2 to 2 1/2 inches in diameter and in less than two weeks they have grown from less than half the tank high to out of the water TWICE! Love it! Just pulled out a bunch of plants( way to many ) and am giving them to people at my work who have tanks also. Yea!


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi eclipse29,

Glad to hear things are going well, keep us posted as things progress! Good fert dosing and water changes certainly increase the opportunity for success. BTW, we like pictures! LOL.


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## eclipse29 (Jun 16, 2010)

OK just got a potassium testing kit! WOW! Potassium is way off the charts. Adjusted the equalibrium and other water conditioners and did a 50% water change. Now I have a PH- 7 and dropping, Gh-6, Kh-6, NO2-0, Fe-1ppm, PO4- 1.25ppm, Ca-40ppm, NO3- 20ppm. Also cut, propigated and thinned out my plants. Down to 15 types from 25 of plants. Trying to load some pics. Thanks everyone, gave away a bunch of plants to people at work just starting to dabble with real plants and they love 'em.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi eclipse29,

Always glad to hear about success! BTW, those are some nice healthy looking plants you have there!


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