# leaf shape



## skewlboy (Jun 9, 2006)

Growing Rotala mexicana goias - leaves are longer and broader in one tank vs the other? What would be the deficiency of one vs the other? Is it a fert thing? Both are r/o tanks but one has a different type of rock in it - could this be related to hardness?


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## hooha (Apr 21, 2005)

same lighting? same plant densiity?


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## skewlboy (Jun 9, 2006)

roughly yes... tough part is the desparity in temp and height of tank. Both are about 4-5 wpg. Just wanting to know if there is a fertilizer desparity that is known to cause some plants to grow larger or smaller leaves... (co2 diffusion?)


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## ashappard (Jun 3, 2006)

sorry I missed this thread till now - I've observed the same thing.

more specifically I've seen what you describe except neither tank has hardscape.
I dose what I think is excess so I tackled it as an uptake thing, where they were inhibited from taking up what they needed -- but in my case have never nailed down the cause and could be way off on my guess.

I did some big w/c after stirring the substrate and resumed dosing. Then they started making the leaves I was used to. so I didnt really find out why. it could have been light, but doubtful for this sp. Even in dim conditions the plant goes green but still does make otherwise the same leaves.

I've had similar issues even with larger greedy stems - they'll stunt or uptake obviously slows. dosing is the same but maybe something has built up? maybe something else is taking up more than I think? I dont use test kits so it's hard to know what exactly is going on - all I know is per day +_x_ppm nutrients. so I cheat and reset the tank : stir substrate. and clean filters. and change 90%+ water. Then use a dosing routine that I use when replanting an established tank. Then I'm back in business. While its sloppy in some eyes - it is repeatable and thats all I need.

kind of unrelated, but heres a story. I have repeatable observation but no solution.

I have a high light growout, practically a twin of a tank right next to it. But no matter what sp. mix I use - after about 3 months it needs a major replant and cleaning or it goes downhill. As long as I do that, no problems and growth rate stays very high. I go over 3 months and it starts to slide within a week or two. the sister tank beside it can go 6 months or longer before it wobbles.

so I tried altering the wc schedule, longer - shorter - less water - more water
swapping light fixtures. altering flow. I haven't noticed a big difference. 
now I'm playing with GH after wc. less / more etc.
I'm sticking with 0KH though.



skewlboy said:


> Growing Rotala mexicana goias - leaves are longer and broader in one tank vs the other? What would be the deficiency of one vs the other? Is it a fert thing? Both are r/o tanks but one has a different type of rock in it - could this be related to hardness?


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## bsmith (Dec 13, 2006)

Im still kinda on the fence with this plant. Is it a forground plant or am I doing something wrong? Mine creeps on the substrate unless I pull it up.


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## ashappard (Jun 3, 2006)

I dunno. I've seen pics where it seems to creep more than grow upward. Like the one in the plantfinder here. Try cutting a top off of a creeping stem. It might send upward shoots for you.

it is more of a foreground plant.


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## skewlboy (Jun 9, 2006)

Mine seems to grow up only after sideshoots. Could be a light thing too - stays down mostly in the high light sections. I get a dark red on my color in the high light tanks in portions that have rooted already. 

on your tank differences - what is you filtration - same exact setup? I'm going more biological these days, swapping mulm/less water changes, feeding different foods. 

You will laugh at one of my setups and I can't exactly recommend it but "it works for me". It is my 40 gal breeder tanks - grows show quality plants in a 2 yr old tank - granted it is Aquasoil 1 but here is the kicker - other than iron I don't fert. My special secret (micro shirakura food - the powder). Must be a high phos food cuz my reds are nice. Tank is chilled (70 F) and that houses my CRS (last count was around 150-200) of the S+/ss/few sss. 192 w of compact PC. Has co2 at 1 bubble/sec on a reactor and a xp3. My water changes are maybe 10-20% monthly if i'm not lazy . Grows my Mato grosso well (through slowly) and my other erios are happy. Once again, not an exact science but - "works for me". 

BTW the goias in this tank has small leaves. I have also noted many plants to look like their emersed form underwater in this tank - can you explain that one? This was seen w/ Ludwigia pantanal and some of the l cuba in the past.


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## ashappard (Jun 3, 2006)

these two 'twin' tanks have no real filtration, and they are growouts - so no hardscape.

Each has a metal halide fixture, an octopus needlewheel pump hooked to a spraybar and a powerhead for additional flow. they both have the same equipment, light fixtures, tank dimensions, substrate, but they have different timelines where stability is concerned. I think the lesson to me from this experience is that its hard to really make an identical setup. Also, I have tried to dose them identically but that never works out - the sp. mix and biomass drives my dosing.

I'd like to second your observation on L.cuba making emersed form leaves underwater. I've seen it more than once and I have a pic of it someplace. I'll try to dig it up. I never tried to figure out why though. The stems that did it were culled.

interesting observation on low dose, dose by shrimp food. I have a yellow shrimp tank that grows plants on hikari food alone. its just easy plants though, like nana petite and mosses, liverworts - but they grow great and I haven't dosed in over a year. I have a filter on that one - its one of those turtle tank canister filters.. Zoomed I think.


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## skewlboy (Jun 9, 2006)

I always thought the leaf shape was more for CO2 diffusion... wierd to see it go emersed in a submerged setting.


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