# Gorgeous Grass from New Jersey?!



## spypet

*July 4th, I was paddling down a river in central NJ, and decided to go on a little plant safari.










of 10 plant samples; 7 melted in my tank, 2 are immersed, while one long thin grass thrives.










the water was under a foot deep, and the substrate was yet another foot of thick brown muck.










here it's growing in a gentle spiral, unlike that arcing spiky Eleocharis Parvula 1.5" Spikerush.










growth slows at around 8", and propagates by runner with around a dozen leaves per root ball.










It's too soft, flowing, and uniformly thin to be Eleocharis vivipara or Eleocharis montevidensis








so what do you think it is? - it truly is a floating bouncy human hair like grass in every way.








I can't wait to fill half my tank with this, and watch it gently billow along my water flow.*


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## neonfish3

Your Eleocharis is a nice one! 
I found a simular one, but it dosn't have those nice spiral leaves. The different species are very hard to ID. You have to grow them emersed and let them flower and set seed to get an accurate ID., even then it's still hard to do. The USDA plant database lists 75 species in North America 
You got a great find there. 
The one I have, grown emersed is only 1" to 1.5" max, comes back year after year at the edge of my pond. In my tank it grows to 12" with thread-thin leaves, thinner than any other hairgrass I've seen.
Have fun with it,
and good luck with a positive ID.


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## spypet

Neon, thanks for that by state USDA link.
hopefully that will help me narrow it down.
I don't think it's a spikerush simply because
it's too soft to ever survive semi immersed,
let alone flower or seed. but until someone 
suggests another Genus, I guess I'm stuck
with the assumption that it's an Eleocharis.

my photo with the tape measure is in water.
lain flat, out of water, you would see a thick
green line, like strands of wet green hair, as
this aquatic plant has no rigidity whatsoever.
another possibility is it's seasonal, and will
send up a rigid stem to flower and seed at
a certain time of year, or water condition.

neon, here's a thought about your thin grass.
perhaps the spiral is not indigenous to the grass
rather the location of your light source. moving
some grass directly under your light may inspire it
to spiral as well, if it's as thin and soft as you say.


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## 247Plants

Sweet find.

Can I be first to be on the waiting list to buy some from ya


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## fredyk

darn you, sypnet, that's a find!
edit: "that's a sweet find" : )


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## spypet

2 weeks of growth later, leaves spiral and bend along the surface.
please notice those fine white horizontal lines near the bottom?
that is the grass trying to spread one new leaf every centimeter.
oddly it's occurring above the gravel line, not from the root mass.
it ruins the pure aesthetic of the grass, so what I'm doing is cutting
them off every week, and planting the white part under my gravel.
I've no idea what this is, but it has a fast growth rate for a grass.
still no rigid upshoots that might show it's flower & seeding system.
notice the low fuzzy algae coated leaves are gone. I put a Flag
fish in the tank for a few days, and he cleaned them right up, but
I had to remove him as he would also pull some plantlets up & out.

[10" of water] left: no water movement, right: some water movement. sorry my P&S camera makes my fish a blur
















I have a theory why the grass is growing those white leaf creepers
above my substrate. this grass was found in about a foot deep of
soft muck where such creepers would have a easy time spreading
under or along the surface. however in my hard coarse sand this
plant is too thin and soft to push it's way across and through to
spread properly, so the plant has compensated by spreading itself
above the gravel line. that's a pretty smart plant, if you ask me 
I'd have to replant this grass in to 3-4" of pure laterite to really
simulate it's original substrate for proper propagation conditions.
the fact that it's adapted to my substrate, makes it a better 
candidate plant for others to enjoy in this hobby. I just hate
plants like tonina that require so many special conditions to grow.


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## ed seeley

It is indeed a gorgeous grass. I hope it becomes more widely available as I'd love to get hold of some!!! It looks so fine and soft, rather than stiff. Great find!


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## gas

Good plant less tall and thin than an E.vivipara
There is a Potamogeton sp. like your plant im gonna seek this


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## gas

Hi I found this (sorry in french) but this looks like your plant :
Potamogeton octandrus
http://www.floraquatic.com/catalogue-plantes-40/potamogeton-octandrus-277.html


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## spypet

gas, that's a very interesting idea,

however Potamogeton octandrus seems 
similar to Juncus repens in the way grass
sprouts plantlets further up each grass stem.

http://store.yahoo.co.jp/chanet/13493.html

my grass all originates from the
root balls, or as individual leaves
coming off white horizontal creepers
that under natural conditions would
probably be out of sight under muck.

in a few weeks I'll post another growth picture
to see how my plant reacts to being along the
water surface all that time. maybe then we'll
have more identity clues from it's growing pattern.


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## gas

Moreover potamogeton is originary from Asia, but its the same green.
Sorry if i can't help you more so probably an Eleocharis sp (there are too much species lol)


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## gas

And what about Pilularia globulifera :

























just an idea even if I think it's an Eleocharis sp.


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## spypet

This grass keeps sending out side shoots with new root balls,
and I keep snipping them off every few weeks and replanting.
when the grass got up to and arced along the water line, 
the tips would brown and shrink off, not break the surface.
I'm wondering if I could do this grass more justice by getting
compressed Co2. in the meantime I'm vigilantly replacing my
DIY Co2 bottle contents every 2 weeks. here is a photo after
I gave it a haircut, and replanted the largest of the new shoots.


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## plantkeeper

spypet, that grass rocks. How much did you start off with?


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## spypet

Since it's time for another haircut and transplant
I thought I'd shoot a VIDEO so all could see how
sensuously it moves with just a hint of current.
Click on this photo to go to a myspace video page;
_sorry about how myspace blurs most action shots_


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## Zapins

Wow, I'm not a huge grass-type fan but I could definately get to like that swaying motion 

Have you been able to find out what water temperatures it will tolerate?


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## AaronT

Is the grass ribbed vertically in a spiral pattern? If it's too hard to see take a blade of the grass and grasp it somewhat firmly between two fingers and pull it through your fingers. Watch the tip of the blade to see if it is spinning. If so, it's probably Eleocharis tortillis, a rare find and one I'd like to try someday.


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## spypet

Aaron, thanks for taking an interest toward identifying this grass.
no, I don't see or feel any ribbing using the method you suggest.
this photo is as close as I can get without special equipment.
given the location I found it, I doubt this grass is really "rare",
it simply may have been over looked by planted tank keepers.










D = Dwarf Hairgrass E. parvula (3 strands) H = Human Hair (middle age head)
by counting pixels, I estimate E. parvula to be 3x thicker than this Jersey grass.


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## mikenas102

Spypet: Nice find. Just an idea about the above ground runners. I know giant hairgrass qould do that when I was growing it. I placed root tabs under them and it seemed to lessen the problem somewhat. Maybe the rich root tabs gives the plant a reason to keep the runners underground? 

I'll have to check for that plant next time I go canoeing in Cedar Creek. It's only about 1/2 hour north of where you were. It's right off exit 77 southbound on the Parkway. There's a place there called Triple T Canoes that runs rentals if you need one.


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## spypet

mikenas102 said:


> Just an idea about the above ground runners. I know giant hairgrass qould do that when I was growing it. I placed root tabs under them and it seemed to lessen the problem somewhat. Maybe the rich root tabs gives the plant a reason to keep the runners underground?


Thanks Mike, that makes a lot of sense. I found it growing in foot deep water in a foot of thick muck, so it would probably do best growing in a very fine substrate that is laterite enriched. luckily I have 1-2mm quartz gravel, since anything larger or heavier would probably crush these grass blades when corys or loaches nose around the gravel. I'm about to trim and replant any above ground runners, so once I'm done I'll break up a Seachem Plantab or two, push them about a inch below my gravel line, and see if it makes a difference over the next Month of growth.


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## waterfaller1

I would also like to get on the wait list when you are ready to sell some. I grew up in N.J., never saw such pretty scenery though living in the burbs.


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## spypet

since you revived this thread, I may as well update my progress.
I now have a square foot of this stuff; working on a square yard 

Here are some more things I've learned while experimenting with it;

- it grows just fine in as little as 2wpg, so more light means faster growth.
- when grown fast, regular trimming and root replanting will be required.
- it easily withstands bleach dipping, and typical H2O2 or Excel treatments.
- dwarf corys, bumblebee gobys, and typical up to 1" shrimp love this stuff.
- flag fish, SAE, any crayfish (even dwarf) may pull this grass up and out.
- care must be taken to avoid crushing plantlet rootballs with a tweezer.

I will post my grass root propagation substrate demonstration on PTF soon,
and provide a link to it from this thread once I do so. preliminary results indicate
that small light grains may show better spreading than mineral enriched grains.


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## spypet

_- it grows just fine in as little as 2wpg, so more light means faster growth._

my low light growth demonstration has hit a snag
that I think many low tech tank keepers will not
be happy about. after moving some grass to a
2wpg no fert no Co2 tank for a Month, I regularly
see blades of grass thin, bend, break, then float
up to the water surface. so even though it is
still _growing_ under these conditions, the plant
_health_ is being affected. I will now be adding
ferts to this tank regularly to see if that alone
will help toughen up the grass blade so they do
not deteriorate as they grow upward. this is
definitely not the fault of water flow or animals
in that tank, but a light and/or water issue.
I also used some fert tab bits in the gravel,
so it will be interesting to see if the grass does
benefit specifically from water borne ferts.

*note the broken grass blade to the right*


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## Dryn

wow man. You definitely lucked out. I live in WV and haven't collected anything near that cool. Don't get me wrong, the glades near my house have cool plants, I just cannot legally collect them. Most aquatic plants have different leaves than their emersed forms. It may be interesting to plant one rootball in an emersed culture and see if it flowers. When I do this, I put aquatic soil and fagus (decayed beech leaves) soil in a small glass bottle with a lid and add water about 1/10 Inch from the surface or at the surface, plant the specimen, and put it in a sunny windowsill. I've ID'd a few plants this way. Good luck (not that you need any)...


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## jazzlvr123

lol looks like you collected a nice new plant sp. it they havn't already i bet your gonna get a lot pm's of people looking for a sample of that grass looks like something that might catch on


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