# The skinny on tetras



## Mad Dog (Mar 3, 2007)

Hey everyone!

So, I have been around the hobby for a little while now, and to be honest, I have read tons of posts on forums and magazine articles and one thing has always boggled my mind....A LOT of people bring up negative experiences with neon tetras as well as rummy nose tetras!

In fact, just today I had an LFS guy refuse to order me some rummy nose tetras because he felt that I could not keep them for very long. Even when I explained my experience level to him and offered to let him 'off the hook' (no pun intended) on the fish warranty, he still refused to make the order!

So what is the real deal here? I know that neon and rummy nose tetras are big in the planted side of the hobby...if not being some of the most common fish I see available to most anyone at least in my area and so I have a hard time believing that these fish can be so impossible to keep! So, I have to turn to the experts since even from reading the few posts I have on this forum, I notice many of you keep these fish and I would assume you can keep them healthy and happy?!?!?!?

Thanks in advance for any light you can shine on this subject for me! Oh, and I just brought home 7 neon tetras (the 'jumbo' type, although they are not jumbo yet) and I really really really want rummy nose tetras so I have do have alterior motives for asking this! :mrgreen:


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## triple red (Oct 27, 2005)

these fish seem to be easier to keep if you have soft acidic water...which is simlar to the water they originally came from.....if you have harder water they may be a little more "difficult" (although not impossible ) to make happy
they are also sensitive to water conditions so you would want to keep your water clean
if you have hard water you can try "drip acclimating" 
I have had no problems keeping these fish (or other "harder to keep" fish)
but i also have soft acidic water artyman:


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

I have never had a problem with keeping them in hard water.

I think the main problem with them is that they are mass produced in less then stellar farms so the end stock isn't that great so they don't make it long.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Cardinals, rummynose, and neon tetras all have a tough time with shipping and early acclimation. Once established, they're actually pretty tough little fish. IME those that make it past the first week will live for several years. My oldest fish at the moment are a couple of neons that just won't die.

They can all be kept in a wide variety of conditions. I've even kept wild-caught rummies in GH 15/KH 8 water. I do agree with tripple though that they're a bit easier in soft, acidic water.

If they're handled carefully, packaged carefully, acclimiated carefully, and obtained from a quality source then they usually do fine. Many other species are simply more tollerant of the various abuses they experience on their way to your tank.

Don't give up on them. Rummynose are probably the best fresh-water schoolers for their size and coloration - absolutetly fabulous fish - second only to congo tetras.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

It's too bad they've gotten that "very difficult" reputation tacked onto them. As stated, they can be a little harder to acclimate, and if you get them from a less than reliable source, they are going to be weaker.

I'm another who has never had a problem acclimating them or keeping them in harder water, so I'm sure you wouldn't have a bit of problems with them if you keep your tanks well maintained, which I'm sure you do. 

If your store won't order them for you, I've ordered them (both Rummies and Cardinals) from Live Aquaria and have always gotten healthy stock without a single loss. Tetras from Live Aquaria


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

I have cardinals and neons in 8.2pH with 10KH tap water for years. Oldest cards is around 7 years old. The neons will also drop eggs in this water. Neons transport better than cards. These fish enjoy company so keep at least 5. Maintain the average temperature around 74-75F during the winter. The fish will live longer and approach ideal maximum size in a colder tank.

Look for neons with bright red tail. Those with orange tail tend to be from less than ideal breeding stocks.

One must maintain clean water, especially with cardinals. I change 50% of the water 3x a week when I have small cardinals (1/2"). The fish should reach 1" in another 10 weeks with good food and clean water. The larger cards/neons will appreciate weekly 50% water change.


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## Freerider (Nov 8, 2006)

I have kept rummy nose and cardinals with no problems. I used a lot of wood and heavly planted their tanks with no deaths in either fish. I have seen LFS have problems with rummy nose tetras before usually when they first arrive but what would you expect when you jam new fish that probally came from very clean healthy water into a LFS busy tank powered by under gravel filters and no place to hide. I have seen Big Als use heaters to raise the temp (higher then their fish room temp) of the tanks for new arrivals and it seems to help them.


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## rhinoman (Oct 11, 2006)

I ordered 50 Rummies from Live Aquaria. 1 DOA lost six within a few days (they have a 14 day guarantee). I've had them for about six months and haven't loss one since (as far as I can tell, It's a big, densly planted tank).


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## Mad Dog (Mar 3, 2007)

Wow, thanks for all the replies! I am guessing that this may be another case of a fish getting a reputation based too much on beginner's experience than those who have been around a while.

I picked up a few each of the rummy nose, neons, and cardinals and used the same basic acclimation procedures that I would for a saltwater fish and they are all doing great. I actually brought home 10 cardinal tetras today, which I ordered from an LFS and picked up before they were taken out of the bag from the distributor and while they acclimated fine, a couple seem to be damaged slightly from the trip I guess. One is pretty much clear right now and I have it in my q-tank...with not many options for treatment. Hopefully the little guy can pull through. Otherwise, all is going really well with the fish and I have an amazingly tight and large school of neons, coupled with the cardinals, which is great because after 6 p.m., only my actinic lights are on and they stand out like you would not beleive. That is short lived though since I am changing three bulbs, two 10,000K and one actinic, out with 6,500K bulbs in the morning.

So, the verdict is that if handled properly, these fish are fine and relatively hardy, correct? I hope that I can keep these fish for years, which is something I have yet to accomplish...not because they die, but because I change my mind on what type of tank I want! If only I had a huge mansion where i could keep about 50 large tanks with every sort of stocking I can think of! Of course, then I would have to quit my job (which would never allow me to afford a mansion anyways) so that I could do water changes all day! Still, what is that saying...the worst day of aquarium maintenance is better than the best day at work???? Maybe I have that mixed up a bit, but it makes total sense to me!

Thanks again!
MD


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

If the card is not alert upon arrival, then it will not make it. Most LFS has a 24 hour guarantee. Cardinals grow very quickly with a combination of TetraMin, ColorBits, and finely chopped boiled shrimp. I have several large females with massive body. None will drop eggs like the neons.

The younger cards come with a huge appetite, especially if you keep the temperature between 79 and 80F. Most will reach full-size (1.5 to 1.8") within 18 months.


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## Round Head (Feb 28, 2006)

My LFS owner told me that he gets his tetras directly from Asia, pond raised.
I can make deals with him for $1.50 each and that is the best price I've found anywhere.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

Tank/pond raised cardinals tend to cost more than wild caught fish. Also pay attention to the red under body. Some tank raised cardinals lack the rich red found in the wild.

If you want a robust specimen, then hand pick those 1 inchers at the LFS with a nice plumb body.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

furballi said:


> If the card is not alert upon arrival, then it will not make it.


That's not always the case since I've had some come in that were laying on their sides looking pretty bad, but once they got into the clean tank water they bounced right back.

I'm glad your new ones are all doing well for you MD.


Mad Dog said:


> So, the verdict is that if handled properly, these fish are fine and relatively hardy, correct?


 Yes, that is pretty much true. The overall health of the fish and their genetics also plays a role in how hardy they are. If they are some of the "puppy mill" fish that were raised in poor conditions, they will obviously be more susceptible to everything.



> If you want a robust specimen, then hand pick those 1 inchers at the LFS with a nice plumb body.


 That would generally be the females.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

It can be difficult to sex cardinals under 3/4" unless the school receive several feedings a day. I rely more on the horizontal blue/green band. If there is a small bend at mid-body, then the fish is a female (about 70% certainty). 

Young healthy cards will also temporarily pair up at this age in a well-planted tank and clean water, even though the female is not ready to breed. A full-grown ripe female can drop about 300 to 400 eggs. That's 8x more than the neons. Mortality is very high with the frys (98% in my case). Perhaps it is due to the lack of experience or suitable water.


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## Coconutboy (Apr 13, 2007)

I just bought some rummys yesterday-and today they seem perfectly fine, no discoloration, no shyness-nothing-guess i just got lucky..


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## YzMxer99 (Jul 17, 2006)

Rummy's are bad, very bad. You hear all these stories about die off and difficulty with acclimation. so you think to yourself, "self you should buy more than you want to put in your 29g because you will have the number you want in a week."

Then 5 weeks later you have 12 in a 29g that school ever so nicely instead of the 9 you hoped for. So you think to yourself again, "self you should buy an ADA 120-P! That school needs some room to run. And you scream "NO NO, No self, I can not afford that right now" and you hear yourself keep wispering "but look at that awsome school, just imagine!" And you fight back "NO, NO bad self" 

The voice in my head hasn't worn me down yet. But that S.O.B. is screaming louder and I fight on. 

Bad Rummies, Bad


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Hehe 99,

I hear you. I have a school of 24 rummies and have 25 more on order. What, I must ask, was wrong with 24? These guys are in an All-Glass 180. They'd be stunning in an ADA 120-P. Give in to the dark side......


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## rhinoman (Oct 11, 2006)

I have 43 in my 180. At first they weren't schooling than they were. Now my tank has a carpet of Pygmy chain sword and they don't school they just hang out. If something moves fast near the tank or startles them in any way they tighten right up.


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## vicpinto (Mar 27, 2007)

Mad Dog said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> In fact, just today I had an LFS guy refuse to order me some rummy nose tetras because he felt that I could not keep them for very long.


Curious to know if you still do business with this LFS. If a business refused to accept my business based on some forgone conclusion what what they think I may or may not do to a $1.50 fish I would be looking for a different place to spend my money.

Anyway, I've been buying Rummy nosed tetras (Bleheri) from a LFS 2 or 3 at a pop. I havent had one die on me yet and this is coming from someone with no fish experience. I keep the ph at 6.5 and my water is soft from the tap. They have brilliant red coloring way past their gills so I know they must be happy. I also fail to see why everyone stresses out over this fish. I plan on building up to at least 20 but from now on they go into the main tank via a quarantine tank. No more ICH for me.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

The best strategy is to bring a small styrofoam container to the LFS when you purchase the fish. Put the bag in the container to maintain the temperature around 75F. A small heat pad or towel soaked with luke warm water is also beneficial.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

furballi said:


> The best strategy is to bring a small styrofoam container to the LFS when you purchase the fish. Put the bag in the container to maintain the temperature around 75F. A small heat pad or towel soaked with luke warm water is also beneficial.


Yup, I keep one in my vehicle at all times along with a few heat packs, so I'm always ready if that perfect fish happens to swim past me.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

My love-hate rummynose adventures:

Since first keeping these fish I've become completely enamored by them. They school more tightly than anything else I've kept and they're much more active than neons or cardinals. I've purchased rummynose on 5 different occasions. The first time I bought a dozen or so from an LFS. They looked fabulous in the tank but about 1/2 of them died within a few days. The survivors are still doing well over a year later. The second group was from the same LFS a few weeks after the first, intended to replace those that didn't make it from the first group. I bought 8 and 6 of these lived. That left me with a school of about 12 or 13 in a 46g tank.

After the move to the 180g tank, I ordered 30 from a reputable internet source as part of a rather large fish order. Of these 30, 9 were DOA in the bag and within 3 or 4 days all but 10 were gone. They were packed in 3 separate bags, but when the "overnight priority" package finally got to me (late, as usual) the bags were VERY cold - below 50F. This left me with a school of around 24 in a 180g tank.

Wanting a school of 40-ish, I ordered 25 more, thinking I'd end up keeping about 1/2 of them. The guy actually shipped 27, and now, almost a week later, I haven't had a single loss. These were wild-caught fish, imported a week or two before I got them.

Go figure. IME, those that survive the shock of transport are among the hardiest fish around. There is something about shipping that they just don't do well with. If they make it past 48 hours they almost always do quite well.


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