# What's in your filter? and how often do you change it?



## ray-the-pilot (May 14, 2008)

I'm curious, what do you think is the perfect filter media and how often do you change it?

I guess I'm a traditionalist; so, I have poly wool and charcoal in my filter. I only change it when my fish get Ich. The directions say remove the charcoal; so, I use that as an inspiration to change the whole thing after I treat the fish. I've had to do that twice last year.


----------



## Yokomo99 (Aug 26, 2008)

I have an old 403 canister filter on my 135 gallon tank. I have a sponge in the top section and bio rings in the other two sections.


----------



## MagpieTear (Jan 25, 2009)

Running a Fluval 405 with the coarse and fine pads, and two comparments filled with ceramic media. The coarse pads get changed annually, the fine whenever they don't come clean anymore, and the ceramic, well, it's in there until it crumbles of old age.


----------



## adechazal (Nov 12, 2008)

I use a product from pond filters that has the consistency of a heavy duty floor buffing pad in my AGA model 4 sump. I've read that charcoal absorbs the micros so I've never used it in my planted aquariums.


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi ray-the-pilot,

I have coarse sponges; poly; bio-balls; fine pad in that order in my filter.


----------



## ngb2322 (Apr 9, 2008)

I have a Rena XP3 and a Rena XP1 on a 75 gallon tank. I use sponges, bio rings, a fine pad, and filter floss in that order.


----------



## xtremefour (Sep 30, 2008)

I have two HOB filters not sure what models on my 75 gallon. I use the std filter pads with charcoal but take out the charcoal. 

I read the same thing that it is not good to have chacoal on a planted tank. I have not changed my filters in 4 months I just occasionally rinse them out when I clean the pumps.


Matt


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

I use an Eheim 2028 on my 75. 
Botton tray has efhi mech and a coarse pad.
Middle and top trays have efhi substrat pro with a fine pad on the top.
The trays and coarse pad get rinsed monthly with tank water.
The fine pad gets changed every other month and the coarse pad every four months.

I have used Purigen with this but didnt see any differences.


----------



## customdrumfinishes (Apr 1, 2008)

ive never heard of charcoal in a filter im guessing you mean carbon.

i the 5 aquaclear hang on back filters i use sponge and bio rings.
wash out the sponge every few weeks but not the bio rings.

have a fluval 204 with just bio rings and sponges that come with it. had a sponge prefilter on it for shrimp so filter never gets to dirty and only needs cleaning once every few months.


----------



## bsmith (Dec 13, 2006)

Lets see here...

2213 on a Mini-M (~5.5g)
Eheim polishing pads/Ehfisubstrat PRO
Clean every 3 months or so

XP3 on a 55g
Rena fine pads/Rena Course pads/Rena bio stars
Clean one a year maybe

XP1 on 37g
rena fine pads/Bioslab/rena course pads
Clean once every 2-3 months

2222 on same 37g
Eheim fine pad/eheim course pads/Ehfisubstrat PRO.

Havent cleaned in about 3 months not planning for another few either.

Maybe I missed the point of the question. I very rarely REPLACE any of my media. I finally replaced my finest pads from my XP3 after over 3 years of rinsing them off under the tap.


----------



## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

Doesn't carbon (charcoal) remove fert nutrients we put in the tank for the plants?


----------



## angel_saza (Dec 29, 2008)

I use seachem matrix, a purigen pouch and soon changing to bio-chem-zorb and white filter pad that gets replaced every few weeks when it turns brown.


----------



## ray-the-pilot (May 14, 2008)

*Activated carbon vs. charcoal.*

Activated carbon vs. charcoal.

These are the same thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activated_carbon

Although I've also read that activated carbon removes trace elements my experience and the Wiki article conclude that carbon is not effective in removing ionic compounds like K, PO4, NO3 and trace elements.

My plants also agree with that and I need to chop them back every 3-4 weeks.

I forgot this: I also have two (course???) Pre-filter pads in my Fluval 405 canister that I rinse out and bleach when I change the other filter elements.


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

The carbon is capable of trapping a good amount of iron, zinc and other metals as well as any other compound that has a carbon molecule.


----------



## ray-the-pilot (May 14, 2008)

Newt said:


> The carbon is capable of trapping a good amount of iron, zinc and other metals as well as any other compound that has a carbon molecule.


Can you give me a reliable link to this data as this doesn't agree with the wiki article nor my experience with using activated carbon. It is possible that wiki and I are wrong about this and I'd like to correct the article.


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

One of the divisions where I work uses 55-gal drums of activated carbon on a waste water treatment system to 'filter out' metals such as zinc, copper, iron, etc. I will talk with the filter rep and see if he can point me to where we might find this on the internet.

Most people dont bother with carbon in their planted tanks as it is just not needed except to remove meds.


----------



## hooha (Apr 21, 2005)

in my XP's - coarse fliter sponges, then ceramic bio-media. I removed the 'polishing' pad because it would clog up in a couple weeks and virtually kill flow

in my Fluval 404's - 4 compartments of bio-media


I used to use filter floss/poly wool in my cannisters, but they would get clogged way too easily and end up just diminishing flow significantly. When I'd clean my filters, the floss would become the consistency of a wet cow-patty.


----------



## Veloth (Jun 25, 2008)

In my XP3s - coarse sponges then bio max topped with polish pad. In the C-360 same configuration except I use the Bio balls. Rinse out about once-a-month.


----------



## Red River (Feb 23, 2009)

Newt said:


> Most people dont bother with carbon in their planted tanks as it is just not needed except to remove meds.


In her book Diana Walstad also recommends it to help with algae problems. Moreover, she states, "Also, charcoal would remove any allelochemicals or toxins release by the algae that might be inhibiting the plants." That was in Chapter X. Algae Control... page 171 in the second edition.

Chapter XI. Practical Aquarium Setup and Maintenance has more information on charcoal filtration on page 184 of the same edition. It states, "Routine use of activated carbon may be detrimental, because it removes dissolved organic carbon (DOC) that provides CO2 for plants (see page 59). However, it can be useful in controlling algae (see pages 170 and 171) or removing the yellowish coloring (harmless tannins and humic acids) sometimes generated in new tanks."

The reference that she mentions is: Symons JM. Interim Treatment Guide for Controlling Organic Contaminants in Drinking Water Using Granular Activated Carbon. Water Supply Research Division (Cincinnati OH), p. 14

Because of her above information I am currently using charcoal in my new tank. I'm planning on removing it once the tank has settled down a bit. The intake on my Aquaclear HOB has a sponge covering it to prevent the shrimpies from being sucked in. The sponge within the HOB was replaced with filter floss. I'm planning on transferring the filter floss to a new tank to help with cycling.


----------



## ray-the-pilot (May 14, 2008)

Red River said:


> In her book Diana Walstad also recommends it to help with algae problems. Moreover, she states, "Also, charcoal would remove any allelochemicals or toxins release by the algae that might be inhibiting the plants." That was in Chapter X. Algae Control... page 171 in the second edition.
> 
> Chapter XI. Practical Aquarium Setup and Maintenance has more information on charcoal filtration on page 184 of the same edition. It states, "Routine use of activated carbon may be detrimental, because it removes dissolved organic carbon (DOC) that provides CO2 for plants (see page 59). However, it can be useful in controlling algae (see pages 170 and 171) or removing the yellowish coloring (harmless tannins and humic acids) sometimes generated in new tanks."
> 
> ...


Now that's the kind of solid information I like to see! You may not be 100% sure it is correct but since there are references, anyone can follow them up to check it out.

BTW Even dead charcoal is a great bio filter because it has a very large surface area where bacteria can live.


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Red River said:


> In her book Diana Walstad also recommends it to help with algae problems. Moreover, she states, "Also, charcoal would remove any allelochemicals or toxins release by the algae that might be inhibiting the plants." That was in Chapter X. Algae Control... page 171 in the second edition.
> 
> Chapter XI. Practical Aquarium Setup and Maintenance has more information on charcoal filtration on page 184 of the same edition. It states, "Routine use of activated carbon may be detrimental, because it removes dissolved organic carbon (DOC) that provides CO2 for plants (see page 59). However, it can be useful in controlling algae (see pages 170 and 171) or removing the yellowish coloring (harmless tannins and humic acids) sometimes generated in new tanks."
> 
> ...


Many of Diana's theories have been proved inaccurate or not sufficient data to uphold. Alleochemicals is one. They exist but not in sufficient quatities to affect anything.

Users of carbon in planted tanks are far and few. Save your $$$$. Plus it leaches phosphate - even if they say it doesn't and high ash content carbons will affect pH.

See Encyclopedia of Aquarium Plants by Peter Hiscock page 28 - Chemical filtration. Paraphase: carbon employed as a temporary basis to remove meds; it will also remove useful compounds.


----------



## Red River (Feb 23, 2009)

ray-the-pilot said:


> Now that's the kind of solid information I like to see! You may not be 100% sure it is correct but since there are references, anyone can follow them up to check it out.


 No problem. I re-read her chapter on Allelopathy and was impressed when I realized that she had quite a few references. Ninety-six stated for that chapter, and what looks like six separate case studies in the Allelopathy in Algae subsection alone.


----------



## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

My Ehiem Ecco 2234 came with media. My arrangement as water flows into the media is coarse filter pad, fine filter pad and then Substrat Pro bio media. 

I change the fine filter pad and rinse the coarse pad and bio media every 4-6 wks depending on my perception of the flow rate.


----------



## davesnothere (Oct 14, 2008)

I have a Whisper filter that uses activated carbon filter pads. My tanks are all planted, do I stop using these ? Should I use filter floss and filter sponge instead ?


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

ray-the-pilot said:


> BTW Even dead charcoal is a great bio filter because it has a very large surface area where bacteria can live.


I'm fairly certain that the bacteria are larger than the pores in the activated carbon.


----------



## Pinto (Mar 22, 2008)

i got a rena xp2. With fine and coarse with bio balls that i only clean, never change.


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

davesnothere said:


> I have a Whisper filter that uses activated carbon filter pads. My tanks are all planted, do I stop using these ? Should I use filter floss and filter sponge instead ?


98% of planted tank keepsers would say you'd be better off with the floss and sponge and save $$$$ too.
1% didnt know you dont need carbon in a planted tank.
The remaining 1% will stick with using carbon.


----------



## ray-the-pilot (May 14, 2008)

Newt said:


> 98% of planted tank keepsers would say you'd be better off with the floss and sponge and save $$$$ too.
> 1% didnt know you dont need carbon in a planted tank.
> The remaining 1% will stick with using carbon.


People regularly come on this forum and just make stuff up. Now I'm not implying that you made this up but do you have any evidence like a reliable poll that could support this statement?

I could do the same thing. How is this:

Most people do not use activated carbon in their tanks because they are distacted by the unreliable myth that it will remove micronutrients and kill their plants.

I've been using activated carbon in my tank for over a year and I test for KPN weekly. I do not seen any reduction in PO4 as some people suggest. This is a fact!

My plants grow great, in fact, I'd like to find a way to slow down their growth.

So maybe it is possible to have a great planted aquarium and not follow what most people do?


----------



## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Doesn't carbon lose it's effectiveness (absorb all it can absorb) after about 3 weeks, though? 

-Dave


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

A lot of us here have been doing this hobby for decades, have engaged in several other forums and exchanged info. Most of us also draw upon our life experiences to answer questions here. I have been a manager for 2 carbon adsorption plants and distillation equipment and involved with waste water treatment. With the 10+ years of working with all of this I know most of the properties of carbon. I can tell you that bacteria which is measured in millionths of a meter can not fit into a pore measured in billionths of a meter. I know there are many types of AC and that some will adsorb metals and many have phenols and they leach phosphate.

I did not do a poll for those numbers nor do I have the time. I assumed those numbers based on my years of posting. However, if we use this thread as a poll I am not too far off in my guestimate. In one of your posts awhile back you said (I'm paraphrasing here) I rarily agree with anyone on this board. I never said carbon was detrimental to a planted tank; simply that it is a waste of money as it really does nothing for a planted tank. If you like to use it that's fine. Post a thread in the Seachem section and ask them about AC in the planted tank. There is a reason they make Renew.

Unsubscribing from this thread.


----------



## davesnothere (Oct 14, 2008)

Thanks Newt. I will go with the cheaper no carbon / filter floss solution


----------



## jmhart (Nov 13, 2007)

I'm with Ray on this one, useable nutrients are not absorbed by carbon. I came across a really good article discussing this about a year ago. It wasn't pertaining to aquariums, but rather the ability of household filters, like Brita, to remove agro fertilizers...and the answer was no, carbon can't remove metals/fertilizers, but there is other stuff in thes household filters that do absorb metals. I'll see if I can find the article.

Additionally, the pore size of charcoal has nothing to do with whether or not bacteria can live on it's surface. Not saying carbon makes a good biofilter, but bacteria can certainly live on the surface and do some good.

However, as mentioned, carbon loses effectiveness after a few weeks. Pretty much the reason I stopped using it.

So, to the point of the thread:

Eheim 2128 #1(from bottom to top)
Ehfi-mech
Ehfi-substrate
Purigen
Filter Floss

Eheim 2128 #2(bottom to top)
Bio balls
Ehfi-substrate Pro
Purigen
Filter Floss

Note:I have never purchased bioballs, ehfi-substrate, or ehfi-mech.

If I was paying for it, I'd find something else. Army men make a great mechanical filter.

I've been using purigen for almost a year, and just recharged for the first time a month ago.


----------



## hooha (Apr 21, 2005)

fwiw, Amano uses carbon in his ADA setups. If I recall correctly, he uses it to start the aquarium. After a few weeks it becomes another 'biofilter' rather than a chemical fitler.

This is trying to remember from memory some of his TFH articles.

The point is - there are many ways to skin a cat, and there are many ways to provide filtration for a planted tank.....


----------

