# Question for new Tank



## mkeevil (Oct 22, 2006)

I have put together a 58gallon tank, I have set up the substrate, the co2, the heater, and filter... no I am starting with the plants. I walk into the LFS and see multiple bottles of plant ferilizers and growth excelleraters,,, can someone tell me what to get so I don't purchase a bunch of stuff we don't need?


-matt


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Don't get anything from your LFS unless it is an emergency  Check out Greg Watson for your fertilizer needs. You can buy a year's worth of dry ferts from Greg for the price of about a month's worth of commercial ferts.

You will more than likely need:

Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) for dosing NO3 and K
Mono Potassium Phosphate for dosing PO4 and K
Plantex CSM+B for Micros

You may or may not need additional Potassium so adding a pound of Potassium Sulfate (K2SO4) will be cheap if you are already placing an order. It won't add much to the shipping costs with the above three items either. However, if you find out you need to order it by itself later, it will be more costly due to the shipping.

You can find information on adding the above dry fertilizers in the Fertilator


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

Can't agree more. I only wish I found out about GW a long time ago, before spending (I don't even want to calculate the amount) so much on commercial ferts.


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## mkeevil (Oct 22, 2006)

Is there a sticky or a good artical on Ferts, and what dosing is? Also is the dry ferts better then the liquid?


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

There are two stickies on fertilizing at the top of the fertilization forum, PPS - Perpetual Preservation System and Estimative Index Dosing Guide both work well but in my opinion, the Estimative Index method of fertilizing is a bit easier for a beginner to grasp and it requires no mixing of liquid ferts. Read through both and ask questions if you need to. There are plenty of people here who are willing to lend a hand in helping you fertilize your tank


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## mkeevil (Oct 22, 2006)

I was going to go the liquid method, instead of dry... so should I get?
- Flourish Potassium
- Flourish Excel
- Flourish Nitrogen


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

If you are set on going with the commercial liquid ferts, then don't forget a source of Phosphate for the tank. Plants need their phosphate just like they need everything else. Also, plan on spending at least 10x as much on those premade liquid ferts for a year's supply. Remember, the folks here can help you turn Greg's dry ferts into liquids if you really want to dose a liquid.


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## mkeevil (Oct 22, 2006)

I can go the dry route, but will need some assistance... what exacly on his site should I purchase... also should I run out and get some empty bottles to mix this stuff?


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

You can use either Chuck's Planted Aquaria Calculator (Downloadable version) or The Fertilator to mix up some solutions using Greg's dry chemicals.

As far as the chemicals from Greg, you will more than likely need:

Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) for dosing NO3 and K ~$2 lb
Mono Potassium Phosphate for dosing PO4 and K ~$3 lb
Plantex CSM+B for Micros ~$9 lb

You may or may not need additional Potassium so adding a pound of Potassium Sulfate (K2SO4) will be cheap (~$2 lb) if you are already placing an order. It won't add much to the shipping costs with the above three items either. However, if you find out you need to order some additional K2SO4 later, it will be more costly due to the shipping.

Greg only sells these items in 1lb quantities (get a pound of each) so $20-$25 worth (including shipping) of the dry stuff should last you a year or more with your tank size. I can help you get familiar with either of the calculators I linked to as can quite a few other members of this site.

I believe Greg also sells 240ml (8ounce) dosing bottles on his site for ~$3 each. You could also get some 8 oz (or larger) rubbermaid containers for storing your premixed solutions. I use 32 oz containers to store my KNO3 and KH2PO4 solutions even though I only make up 500ml (8oz) at a time. This leaves me plenty of extra room to disolve the dry ferts into the solution.

Dosing dry is very easy also. You could simply add 1/2 tsp of KNO3, 1/8 tsp of KH2PO4 and 1/8 tsp of Plantex CSM+B directly to your tank. A lot of folks fertilize this way.

Again, there are plenty of folks who will be more than willing to help you with making up solutions and/or dosing the dry chemicals. Buying the ferts in bulk from Greg should save you quite a bit of money that you can then spend on plants instead


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## mkeevil (Oct 22, 2006)

Thank you for your assistance, I figured premixing would be easier but from your post it said you can just add the dry chem's directly to your tank... so I must ask why do people mix at all?


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

I started mixing up solutions because I had several different size tanks 10g, 30g, 50g, 555 and 75g. I can then write on the bottle how many ml I need to add to each tank and use a single syringe to add the right amount. If I were to dose dry, I could still write the amount on the container but I would then have to carry various size measuring devices to each tank. It becomes difficult to dose smaller tanks (under 30g) with dry KH2PO4 also.

Some folks also like to know exactly how much each ml of solution adds. By using a scale to weigh the dry ferts, you can have much greater accuracy even though it is not needed. I also fall into that category


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## mkeevil (Oct 22, 2006)

Is this Daily, Weekly, Water Change?



MatPat said:


> You can use either Chuck's Planted Aquaria Calculator (Downloadable version) or The Fertilator to mix up some solutions using Greg's dry chemicals.
> 
> Dosing dry is very easy also. You could simply add 1/2 tsp of KNO3, 1/8 tsp of KH2PO4 and 1/8 tsp of Plantex CSM+B directly to your tank. A lot of folks fertilize this way.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

The dosing frequency will depend on your light level and CO2 usage. Once a week is enough for a lower light (under 2wpg) tanks without CO2. Most folks with higher light and CO2 dose 3x a week. 

Assuming you have a higher light tank and are using CO2, you could cut the dosing amounts I gave you in half and dose daily too. Nothing about the dosing is really set in stone other than to dose more the the plants can use between doses.


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## mkeevil (Oct 22, 2006)

In the previous post when you gave me a list of chemi's to purchase you said I might or might not need Potassium Sulfate (K2SO4)... so I should get it now. What is this for? How should I know if I need it or not?


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

All plants need light, carbon, macros (Nitrogen, Phosphorous, and Potassium) and micros (Iron, manganese, etc) to grow well. We provide the macros mainly with KNO3 (Nitrate and Potassium), KH2PO4 (Phosphate and Potassium) and sometimes additional Potassium (K2S04) if needed. The common belief now is that we don't need to add additional K but some folks do find it makes their plants grow better. Pinholes in leaves can be a sign of K deficiency. 

I would get the K2SO4 just in case. It will only be about $3 extra dollars if you get it with the rest of your order. If you decide you need it later, it will run closer to $10 with shipping charges added in.


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## mkeevil (Oct 22, 2006)

I did get it, I just haven't used it yet... is there any... if I use it and it's not needed will it cause algae?


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

It will not cause algae by using it. None of the fertilizers will cause algae if you use them rather, the algae is caused by not using enough fertilizers and causing plant growth to slow or cease.


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