# In which order should they be introduced?



## taikiat (Jun 26, 2006)

Assuming I have a one feet cube planted tank, heavily planted, will it be alright to introduce some fauna? Of course, I might do some tests before I actually do, but I just want to know what kind of fauna is able to take the stress and survive potentially hazardous water. I;'ve heard about high mortality rates of Cardinal tetras and hope I won't have to face that.

For this tank, I was kind of hoping I could fit Endler's, Platies, Cardinals, Pymy Cories, and Cherry shrimps. However I do know that it can get pretty crowded in the small space I have especially since it would be pretty densely planted. What combinations of the above fishes would you guys recommend? In what numbers, (taking into acount i only have around 6 gallons). And in which order should I introduce them?


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## Catastrophi (May 23, 2006)

Since you only have 6 gallons. I don't really recommend cardinals because they won't really look like their schooling becaue of the limited spacing you have.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Once you have your plants settled and growing well, they should absorb most of the ammonia and nitrites in a new cycle, so I don't worry _quite_ as much about stressing the new fish out. I do like to add them gradually to give the tank a chance to build up some good surface bacteria, though.

I agree that the Cardinal's probably wouldn't do the best in a tank that small. I'd personally omit either the Platies or Endler's, since you know how they can both reproduce, and I don't think the combo of the two would be all that appealing to the eye together, either. 
I think your better choice would be the Endler's, since they're smaller, and would do better with the shrimp.

I would start with the shrimp, so they can find hiding places before the other monsters get there, plus they don't produce much of a waste load.

After that, either the pygmy's or Endler's could go in a few weeks apart.

Good luck!


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## taikiat (Jun 26, 2006)

allright, how many shrimps would be suitable then? Also are panda cories and pymgy cories interchangeable? how many endlers should i get? plus is ADA aquasoil a suitable substrate for the cories? or should i put some sand? If the cories would be unhappy with soil substrate i think i'll have to omit them since there isnt much space for a 'sand box' for the cories to play in once i plant densely. 
in total whats the bioload my tank can support? is there something like total fish length per gallon?


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## Shaggathai (Apr 18, 2006)

Ditto to what Cat and Jan said. Too small a tank for cardinals to do well, unless they were they only fish, and not so "heavily" planted. My personal observation with endlers/platies in my 10g, tried a few colors of platies and I really just never liked the look at all of platies in my endler/shrimp tank (10g endlers, assorted pygmy cories, cherry shrimp, (and some shrimpy little dwarf crawdads). 

The cories will do fine on whatever the hell substrate you give them, as long as it is not sharp edged all about, or dirty, but you are going to be doing water changes how often?


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## raven_wilde (Nov 16, 2005)

Whatever type of fish you choose to go with I would recommend you limit it to one species of schooling fish. In that small an aquarium you will only be able to have about seven or eight fish (ten max if you've got good filtration and these are all small fish), so having a mix of different schooling fishes wouldn't look so good.
If you can get your hands on them, pygmy cories would be adorable in a shoal of about eight or nine, and I'm pretty sure they, of all the fish you're interested in, would leave your cherry shrimp alone. Also, they are midwater swimmers, so they wouldn't spend all their time on the bottom. Panda cories, however will stay at the bottom and are larger, albeit cute as hell, so you wouldn't be able to have as many.
As for cherry shrimp, get yourself about five or six adults, males and females, and they will take care of the rest... they reproduce at an insane rate, and as long as the shrimplets have some dense plants to hide in, you'll have plenty of them.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Yes, I agree with what Raven just said about the stocking levels.

I would avoid the Panda's since they are one of the more sensitive Cory's out there, and probably wouldn't fare well in a tank that small.

And as Shaggathai said, they should do fine with most substrates, as long as it's not sharp.


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## taikiat (Jun 26, 2006)

well about water changes... i wouldn't know, since its gonna be a low maintenence tank water changes would only come per week or during nitrate spikes which shouldn't happen considering the amount of plants i'm gonna have in my tank, so yea. Anyway I went to a LFSs and saw some pandas, really cute, but they tend to stay at the bottom a lot. Didn't see any pygmies though. What about this combination : 
5 pygmy/3 panda cories (whichever i can get)
5 cherry shrimps 
8 endlers or 8 dwarf rasboras? (boraras maculatus, which will only be added when shrimps have started to reproduce)


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## raven_wilde (Nov 16, 2005)

If you are going aiming for a low maintenance tank then you might want to avoid the panda cories, as JanS said, they can be sensitive. I like the idea of the dwarf rasboras, they will make your tank look much bigger due to their small size... in fact, I've been trying to find some for myself for just this reason. If you can't find pygmy cories why don't you get 3 Otocinclus as a cleanup crew? They school, are small, and are pretty interesting, as well as great at keeping tank glass clean.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Yes, the dwarf rasbora's would be the perfect choice out of all of them for this tank.

I also agree that if you can't get the pygmy cory's, the Oto's would be much better than trying the Panda's. I honestly wouldn't put any type of cory in a tank that small, except the pygmy's.


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## taikiat (Jun 26, 2006)

well guess what, i got myself a 10 gallon tank. 1.5 ft X 1 ft X 1 ft. ^^
the tank's still a little cloudy, guess i'll wait 2 to 3 days before i think of getting fauna.
anyway, i didnt include dwarf rasboras at first because they're not lifebearers, so they wun be exactly as hardy as the endlers. and since im a newbie, i guess i should go for commando fish that can take almost anything.
Also, if my tank is pretty densely planted and i begin to see some growth, is it a sign that fauna can come along? or do i really have to wait 2 weeks for cycling? (a little off topic)


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## raven_wilde (Nov 16, 2005)

Wait the two weeks before adding fish, you'll be better off for it. The plants may have started growing but you need to give the bacteria some time to settle in and start establishing a good filter. 

After one to two weeks you could introduce your cherry shrimp and see how they take. I would advise after this that you not add any fish for a month... that way the shrimp would be good and settled in, and your plants will have filled in and made lots of hiding places for their babies. I understand you probably would like to move a little faster than this... that's how it is when you first start keeping fish. But patience is probably one of the more important lessons you will learn in this hobby.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Taikiat, your plant question isn't really considered off topic, since it's part of the tank set up.  In many cases, if the plants are quick growing, like Hornwort, etc., you could add your shrimp right away, and they would help add to the bacterial cycle. Without something to produce ammonia, you aren't going to get a true cycle going, so the shrimp would be a good thing to start with.

And as Raven said, patience is the key to having a trouble free, successful tank in the long run. 

It's actually a misconception about live-bearers being more hardy than other types of fish, so choose the fish you'd like out of the smaller choices, and go with it. As long as you have quite a few plants in your tank, and don't add too much of a load, you shouldn't have to worry about any spikes or cloudy water right from the start.


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## taikiat (Jun 26, 2006)

ooh ok. I was confused about the thing about "waiting two weeks" and "cycling". Just as Jans said, I need some livestock to keep the cycling going. As for fast growing plants... I only have water sprites, java moss and java ferns. So if i wait it out, does cycling only begin after two weeks when fauna is being added?


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

In your case, cycling began once you added water and plants to your tank. The plants will likely carry some bacteria from their previous home and well slowly multiply throughout the filter media, and tank.

Once you add fauna, it will provide additional nutrients (waste) that will feed the bacteria and help them multiply faster.

However, I've always planted moderately heavily and added a good, nearly full load of fish from day 1 without any fish deaths. The fact that the plants have some bacteria on them, and also suck up nutrients make cycling a thing of the past. As long as you have a good amount of fast growing plants no need to wait. Doing a weekly waterchange in the beginning will help curb any spikes also.

-John N.


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## taikiat (Jun 26, 2006)

ooh ic. is a combination of java moss, water sprite and java fern a good combination as a nutrient sponge? I've also asked around, and what i think is the cloudiness is probably a bacteria bloom. Will otos be susceptible to this if i add them in? will 3 at the start be too much?


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

The Java moss and water sprite will be great sponges. But the java fern grows a bit slowly, and will consume less, but still will be effective.

If the cloudiness is actually a bacteria bloom, then you don't have enough plant mass to avoid the cycle completley. So in your case it might be a good idea to take it slow, or add more plants to go full load ahead. 

If you're only adding 3 otos then I'm willing to bet they'll make it through, that is if they are healthy to begin with. Whenever I had a bacteria bloom none of my fish had died as a result of being in there. Of course, I also performed lots of waterchanges in the beginning too. 

-John N.


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## taikiat (Jun 26, 2006)

ooh ok thnx a lot. i'll take my time in finding some healthy looking otos then. ^^


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

John N. said:


> If the cloudiness is actually a bacteria bloom, then you don't have enough plant mass to avoid the cycle completley. So in your case it might be a good idea to take it slow, or add more plants to go full load ahead. -John N.


Yup, I agree. However, if you don't have anything in the tank yet, the cloudiness really shouldn't be a bacterial bloom, unless something else is wrong.
I've set up many tanks from scratch, and have never had a bit of clouding, except in the salt tank for the first couple of hours, but salt is a whole different ball game from fresh.
Usually clouding in a new fresh water tank (without any fish load) is from not prepping the substrate correctly.


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## taikiat (Jun 26, 2006)

i couldnt have prepped the substrate any other way. it was aquasoil, and i've seen some of the cases people had with aquasoil and i think i'm alright. my water is something like very fine particles in the water, maybe something like powder floating around in water. thus its not the crystal clear kind that matured aquariums have. well i've decided to wait it out anyway.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

I know what you mean with the cloudiness. I had to speed up removing the cloudiness by doing a water change the next day. Adding the water very slowly stopped any cloudyiness that resulted in the first place.

-John N.


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## taikiat (Jun 26, 2006)

well the water cleared up! it's crystal clear now with only 1 water change. I just hope the plants grow well (the water sprites seems a little off colour, and some of the java moss already browning). perhaps i shud try dosing a little. sigh, would have gotten one of those test kits if they were any cheaper...


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Glad you were able to over come one challenge! Now it's time to play with the plants.

The aquasoil should provide some nutrients in the begiinng, so it could just be a adjusting period for you plants. But eventually find some ferts to add ocassionally. I wouldn't rely on test kits, but do exactly what you are doing, looking at the plants and observing problems that need to be address with either CO2, ferts, or lighting.

-John N.


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## taikiat (Jun 26, 2006)

i wouldnt have to worry about two things, and thats co2 and lighting, unless 18 w is too much for a 10 gallon tank (which i think it is for a non co2 tank). as for ferts, maybe adding some livestock will provide the plants with whatever they need.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

With 18 watts, that's only 1.8 WPG, so that's pretty much considered low lighting.

I like to err on the side of caution, so even if you get some of the 5 in 1 test strips, that will tell you if you're getting any ammonia or nitrite spikes, so you can act on it faster.

Like I said before, I would just start out with your shrimp, then move on from there. I personally don't think the Oto's are a good thing to start with in a tank that's not completely stable.

You're also going to have to keep an eye on the plants that aren't doing well so they don't start decomposing in the tank and polluting the water.

If you can get your hands on some Hornwort, that's an extremely fast growing plant that would suck up excess nutrients like crazy. You can even just float it on the surface of the water and it will do it's work.


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## taikiat (Jun 26, 2006)

i won't be starting with shrimp, althought they add the least bioload, they can be pretty sensitive to ph swings caused by the aquasoil. so its d.rasboras first, two at a time, oh and btw, whats the greenish tinge in the water due to? i dun mind it, it looks a little like green tea. should i do water changes, or leave it alone? i prefer to leave it alone because it seems to me that cycling would be faster that way.


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

Hi Taikiat,

The greenish tinge means time for a water change.

On another note, I have noticed that when using aquasoil, if there's unplanted areas you might hold on the pygmy cories. They tend to stir the soil and cause the water to look milky white.

Regards

Stan


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## taikiat (Jun 26, 2006)

ok thanks for all your help. i think the green tinge is due to algae (green water), so i'll just cut down on amount of lighting hours. i heard that water change isn't going to help much with green water so i guess i'll leave it as it is.


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

Hi,

It really depends what you see. The clear green tinge may be the onset of green water and a water change does help.

Regards

Stan


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