# Problems with planted tank in hard water area



## britinTX1959 (Feb 5, 2012)

I'm new to this site, so if any of this message has been addressed before, let me apologize in advance. I live in West Texas which has VERY hard water. For a planted aquarium I was advised to buy hardy species such as java fern and Lace java fern (NOT from my local Petsmart either!) due to the hard water. I purchased these online, and weighted them so they would rest on the bottom of the aquarium (no natural driftwood for them to be 'tied" to).

The aquarium itself is 30 gallon with an Aqueon T8 17 watt bulb. Problem is this: after about 8 weeks the ferns are developing brown spots which I have been told is normal, BUT they are then turning yellow and leaves are dying, despite initially developing "plantlets" at the underside ends of the leaves which I understand is how they propogate.

Nitrite levels are almost non existent, though nitrate levels are higher (despite 20 and even 50% water changes, they just won't go away, lol), and water temp is about 70 degress. Tank is populated with a variety of small cichlids that don't seem interested in eating the plants whatsoever, and I am at a loss what to do.

Any suggestions ? thanks....


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

First of all, welcome to APC!

Two things might be going on with your ferns. They might be "melting" in response to the change in water chemistry. (I am assuming that water conditions where they were grown are quite different from yours.)

The other is that your light level is very low, maybe too low even for low light plants like Java fern. This might also make the plants loose leaves as they try to adapt to the much lower light.

Are the ferns growing any new leaves at all? This would be a sign that they may be able to adapt to your conditions. Can you change the light fixture, or add another one? Depending on what tube you have in your fixture, even changing the tube might help. Some fluorescent tubes for aquariums are intended to enhance fish appreance, and provide little useful light for plants. Coralife Colormax tubes are one example.


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## britinTX1959 (Feb 5, 2012)

Thanks. The existing fixture (will only take 1 bulb) uses an Aqueon bulb that is supposed to be specifically for planted aquariums. I have just substituted a generic "wal mart" flourescent bulb (20W 750 lumens) that again is supposed to be for planted aquariums and there is a noticeable difference in brightness within the tank.

And no, there are no new leaves at all, just the plantlets on the underside of some of the leaves. Oh for the days when u didn't need expensive CO2 units (which are out of my budget), aquarium plant fertilizers, specialized substrates etc. I know those days existed cuz my father in the 70's had a 50 gallon (BRITISH GALLONS, BIGGER, lol) with natural plants all over and NO special lighting, CO2 or additives! Considering the hood/fixture restrictions (24" bulb for hood that fits top of aquarium) what suggestions do you have for an alternative ?


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

"Oh for the days when u didn't need expensive CO2 units (which are out of my budget), aquarium plant fertilizers, specialized substrates etc. I know those days existed cuz my father in the 70's had a 50 gallon (BRITISH GALLONS, BIGGER, lol) with natural plants all over and NO special lighting, CO2 or additives!"

Those days are still with us! Check out the Walstad method described in the El Natural forum. None of my tanks have CO2, and I don't use fertilizers.

As for light, a T5 HO fixture with one tube would give you low to medium light. Don't buy a Coralfie because they are garbage. 

An inexpensive alternative is spiral compact fluorescent tubes, sold in all hardware stores. The 6500K ones made by Phillips and Sylvania work well. They give better results when mounted vertically rather than horizontally, and you can use cheap clamp lights from the same hardware store.


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## britinTX1959 (Feb 5, 2012)

Ok, so how do I get around this then: tank is 24" long and holds 30 gals; reading online I need at least 30-60 w of lighting. Tank will only support 1 light fixture above (allowing for opening to change water, feed fish and emperor 400 filtr on back, etc) and I can't find a T8 or T5 HO 24" bulb or fixture anywhere, or at least 1 that isn't priced upwards of $100, and that sounds a little pricey for an aquarium light! LOL. Guess I should just go back to plastic plants and try and keep the nitrate levels in check with even more water changes!


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

All is not lost. Use the spiral fluorescents in the clamp lights--you will only need two fixtures with 26 watt tubes. Total cost will be under $30.

Or find an old-fashioned incandescent hood, and put the spiral fluoresents in that. This won't be as effective as the clamp lights, but will be smaller and more convenient. You can improve the performance of the hood by putting shiny reflective silver tape on the inside to act as a reflector. You can find this in the plumbing or AC section of the hardware store--it is sold for sealing AC duct work.

Friends don't let friends buy plastic plants.


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## Big_Fish (Mar 10, 2010)

Michael said:


> Friends don't let friends buy plastic plants.


 I could not agree more 

Let's also not forget, Ammonia and NitrItes will naturally level off near zero (beneficial bacteria converts Ammonia to NitrItes, then DIFFERENT beneficial bacteria converts those nitrItes to NitrAtes) NitrAtes will almost always be present... hopefully at levels below 40 PPM.
but wait.. MORE good news... NitrAtes = Plant food... 
(nitrogen based)
unless you're looking at nitrates that are above 40 PPM, you're still golden.


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## britinTX1959 (Feb 5, 2012)

Nitrites virtually non existent! Nitrates less than 40 ppm so the biological filters are working. And yes I know that Nitrates are a natural food source for plants, but the levels are so low.....and I do NOT want to increase those for fear of creating an algae issue.


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## britinTX1959 (Feb 5, 2012)

Clamped onto what ? bear in mind the limited space of the tank size and a hood unit that encloses both the flourescent bulb and a flip door-lid to help prevent evaporative loss.

What u propose in my set up would I guess mean removing the lid, clamping the lamps to the front top side of the glass (tho at least 50% of the light would be lost "upwards"), and this would hardley be an aesthetic solution for a livinf room aquarium set up....

Not trying to shoot all these suggestions down, and believe me, i do appreciate the suggestions, but I return to the original premise: why back in the late 60's early 70's could my father run a 30 gallon (UK) tank full of guppies and live plants sucessfully with a single strip flourescent hood and under gravel filtration ? No additional lighting, no additional chemicals or CO2 ? This SHOULD be possible! I have read from many other similar forums online of thousands of others who have given up when faced with my challenges becuase they keep being told you MUST have expensive CO2, you MUST have THIS lamp, you MUST have this chemical additive; NO YOU DON'T need ANY of the above ! Even aquarists in the early 20th century could successfully maintain a planted aquarium so why not in the 21st century ?


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## Big_Fish (Mar 10, 2010)

britinTX1959 said:


> why back in the late 60's early 70's could my father run a 30 gallon (UK) tank full of guppies and live plants sucessfully with a single strip flourescent hood and under gravel filtration ? No additional lighting, no additional chemicals or CO2 ? This SHOULD be possible! I have read from many other similar forums online of thousands of others who have given up when faced with my challenges becuase they keep being told you MUST have expensive CO2, you MUST have THIS lamp, you MUST have this chemical additive; NO YOU DON'T need ANY of the above ! Even aquarists in the early 20th century could successfully maintain a planted aquarium so why not in the 21st century ?


No offense taken  
of course you're right, there are plenty of people here who do not even use a FILTER... 
but in order to use only plants as filtration, no ferts, and no lights, then (as has been mentioned) the plants will need to get their nutrition from the substrate, aka a natural planted tank.
all my tanks that have 'low light' (and no C02 or carbon additives) also have only mosses, subwasserstang, etc.. all very low light plants and all are thriving.

I'm not exactly sure how to attempt to answer your question, but I would suggest trying one of the more specific forums (like the ElNatural Forum here at APC) you're right of course, you don't NEED tons of expensive equipment to grow a beautiful planted aquarium, but do bear in mind most of the plants you'll see discussed here DO require special care and special equipment.
very low light plant selection, substrate selection I think are the things you'll need to look at.
most of all have fun


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Read up on the Walstad method. It is exactly what you are asking for.


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