# Long lasting yeast CO2



## peskar

Hi everybody, English is not my native language so sorry for 
any possible mistakes.

Get the 2L PET bottle and put there 6 full spoons of sugar, 3 full spoons of 
starch and a full spoon of baking soda (NaHCO3). Add approx 2 glass of water 
and put it into a pot with the water level same as in the bottle. It takes about 
15-20 minutes of boiling. Every 5 minutes shake the bottle to mix the liquid.
When the liquid becomes a sort of jelly cool down the bottle and add a tea 
spoon of yeast dissolved in the 20 grams of water.

Should last for 1-2 month.


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## Diana K

I have seen the idea of a gelled sugar as a way to extend the life of DIY CO2. Wouldn't this reduce the amount of CO2 per day, though?


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## peskar

Which way it can reduce the CO2 emission?


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## Diana K

Can yeast use the starch? Or only the sugar?

If you start with same amount of sugar and same amount of yeast.
Then the total amount of CO2 ought to be the same. The only difference is the time span. 

A liquid reactor quits after about 3 weeks, but the gelled system continues producing for twice as long, but both stop at the same point (yeast is poisoned, or sugar is used up) then the amount of CO2 produced is the same, but is spread over twice as long in the gelled system. Therefore the CO2 produced per day is less in the gelled system.


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## Diana K

My recipe:
2 liter soda bottle
.5 liters sugar
1.5 liters water
1/4 teaspoon yeast (1.25 ml is the metric volume equivalent)

I get pretty close to 3 weeks out of this, with the best production in the first 2 weeks. A few are still bubbling a bit at the end of 3 weeks.


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## peskar

I tried quite similar recipe but find the "jelly" one to be more lasting. Couldn't see the 
difference in amount of CO2 emission. It just works well. Can not say if anything
was wrong with the jelly. The starch makes sugar to be tied with it moreover starch is 
carbohydrate feed for yeast.

I presume the starch is made from potato and is a good nutritive medium yeast inoculation.


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## Diana K

I know different starches are available, but I am not sure which ones would set up really well. 
I use cornstarch to thicken sauces, and I think that becomes gel-like when it cools. Probably more than the amount I use in sauces would really set up nicely.

OK, so the starch will eventually break down to become available to the yeast as a food supply, supplementing the sugar as it is used up.


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## vynzs

Thanks for the recipe


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## peskar

Diana K said:


> ... OK, so the starch will eventually break down to become available to the yeast as a food supply, supplementing the sugar as it is used up.


Yes, it can be explained so


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## Diana K

Does the stuff finally break down to become liquid enough that it can be removed from the container when it is time to replace the mix?


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## peskar

Diana K said:


> Does the stuff finally break down to become liquid enough that it can be removed from the container when it is time to replace the mix?


No problem


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## giypsy

Diana K said:


> Can yeast use the starch? Or only the sugar?


Hi Diana, 
Peskar is correct as far as the utilization of starch. DIYCO(2)
recipes generally are 2/3 of the recipe for sourdough starter sponge.
Sugar gives the yeast sponge a quick start as it does in humans. The
addition of starch, i.e. flour or potato starch gives the yeast a longer
lasting or slower burning form of nutrition, just as it does in humans.

You can make use of your DIYCO(2) as sourdough
starter if you feed it flour plus replacing water for every cup you
remove for bread baking. Justifies the cost of the ingredients
and gives you some really great tasting bread!
You really never have to throw away the DIYCO(2) and start over
if you make use of what you are brewing up.

Resource link: *Sourdough sponge starter*
The web site is formatted rather strangely for the web; however if you
pick your way around the call out boxes, you will get very good, very thorough
information on both starter and sponge as well as baking with your
DIYCO(2).
Merry Christmas, Happy New Year!


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## tighidden

I don't know if anyone is still following this thread but also yeast need macro and micro nutrients. I have had trouble getting my yeast reactors to work in the past and when I added some plant ferts to the mix the generator actually worked! So now I always add a little bit to my generators.


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## giypsy

My settings pop up threads for which I have participated, 
so yes I am still following.

I would be interested in your formula including the 
macro/micros you are adding. While I would not use 
that formula for sour dough starter, I am still interested in 
the most efficient DIY C02, 
and may add it to my jello litre. Thanks


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## tighidden

I use 1 cup sugar, 1 tsp. yeast and 5 ml (1 tsp) nutrafin plant ferts. I've tried crushed up vitamins too. The reason I started trying this is because I read an article that compared algae to yeast and said that they have some very similar qualities. One important quality apparently is nitrogen (there is nitrogen in the plant ferts) and trace minerals. I'm not claiming that this will definitely give better results, all I know is I was always unable to get my generators to produce an substantial amount of CO2 until I started adding the other nutrients.


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## giypsy

I have pondered the similarities of algae and yeast as well. 
I seem to grow great quantities of algae; stands to reason 
I should be able to grow some yeast. Especially since 
I am baking with it every week 

Thanks for the recipe, will add it to the arsenal.


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## tighidden

no problem glad I could be of some help


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## koko

peskar said:


> Hi everybody, English is not my native language so sorry for
> any possible mistakes.
> 
> Get the 2L PET bottle and put there 6 full spoons of sugar, 3 full spoons of
> starch and a full spoon of baking soda (NaHCO3). Add approx 2 glass of water
> and put it into a pot with the water level same as in the bottle. It takes about
> 15-20 minutes of boiling. Every 5 minutes shake the bottle to mix the liquid.
> When the liquid becomes a sort of jelly cool down the bottle and add a tea
> spoon of yeast dissolved in the 20 grams of water.
> 
> Should last for 1-2 month.


Hi , 
lastly how much water is added - as you have written some 20 grams . Is it 2o grams or 20 mgl.


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## koko

peskar said:


> Hi everybody, English is not my native language so sorry for
> any possible mistakes.
> 
> Get the 2L PET bottle and put there 6 full spoons of sugar, 3 full spoons of
> starch and a full spoon of baking soda (NaHCO3). Add approx 2 glass of water
> and put it into a pot with the water level same as in the bottle. It takes about
> 15-20 minutes of boiling. Every 5 minutes shake the bottle to mix the liquid.
> When the liquid becomes a sort of jelly cool down the bottle and add a tea
> spoon of yeast dissolved in the 20 grams of water.
> 
> Should last for 1-2 month.


Hi , 
lastly how much water is added - as you have written some 20 grams . Is it 2o grams or 20 mgl.


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## Diana K

Here is my recipe:
2 cups sugar (.25l)
6 cups tap water (not RO) (1.5l)
.25 teaspoon yeast (1.25 ml)
pinch of dry ferts or a little bit of liquid ferts. 
I heat about half the water to boiling, then mix the sugar and water in a mixing bowl, stirring until the sugar-water is clear. Add most of the rest of the water (cold) to cool off the sugar-water mix. 
Start the yeast in .25 cup of tepid water (see instructions on the yeast for the correct temperature.) Do not expose the yeast to high temperature. Allow the sugar-water to cool before mixing. 

For the starch version, use most of the water to heat the starch, then pour the sugar into the hot water to dissolve it. I am not sure the sugar should be cooked, though the double-boiler method seems better than a stove-top method, if the soda bottle will handle the heat. 

The 20 grams or 20 milliliters of water is just enough to dissolve the yeast. The exact quantity is not important.


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## huaidan

Some ideas I see here I will definitely incorporate into my 100 gal DIY CO2, for which I'm using wine yeast and yeast nutrient. Currently, with 1 x5 liter liquid going, I get a green drop checker for nearly 2 weeks. I cheat towards the end by applying heat to give the yeast a final sprint.

Using a 2 bottle stagger method, combined with starch gel, could conceivably give me the high level CO2 I need, but with changes every 2 weeks instead of every week. Without applying heat, possibly. CO2 by this method would be more consistent, without the spike and drop of only running one bottle. So, if one 5 liter is enough, 2 will be twice as much, then figure in that the rate would be halved by the starch gel. One bottle's spike would cover the other bottle's decline by staggering.

DIY CO2 for large tanks is approaching sustainability 


Edit:
Hold the boat! I just saw the comment about sourdough starter. Now we have complete sustainability. Nothing is wasted ! I love it! Next batch of co2 mix is going to include flour. After 2 weeks, I should have some good sourdough starter. In this case, making bread and replacing yeast solution would be the same action. Brilliant.


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## giypsy

Correct in theory. 
I have yet to actually incorporate the 
sustained jello/sourdough stagger.
I am at the end of my semester 
and have no time. 
Please beat me to it! I look forward to your update.


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## huaidan

Sourdough bread actually uses a combination of a wild yeast species and lactobacillus. So, while what I just mixed up will never be true sourdough starter, it will be considerably more alcoholic. I wonder what kind of bread that will make, pardon the pun.

What the OP mentioned was cooking the starch solution to turn it into a gel. As any cook knows, starch is a thickener, and enough starch can turn anything into a jelly like mass. This, in effect, would reduce the mobility of the yeast and the nutrients, slowing down fermentation. Starch is also digested more slowly than sugar, which is what I'm counting on, since I didn't cook my flour/sugar/water solution. 

We'll see what happens.


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## menguyen

has anyone ever thought of upping the sugar/yeast reservoir? for example, using a 5 gallon water jug?


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## giypsy

Actually RestlessCrow and I collaborated on some 
DIY recipies based upon various posts here. 
I was interested in Ginger Ale, Kombucha & Jello. 
He went off on some hard cider tangent in a five gal carboy.
That part starts with post #91 in his thread, 
although the conversation started a bit earlier.
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/journals/66427-going-get-interesting-3.html#post513991

It is a fun read for sure.


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## OrangeCones

I use no ferts but add 2 tablespoons of protein powder. I still get only 2-3 weeks of CO2 production, but 2-3 bubbles per second, instead of 1 bubble ever 1-2 seconds.


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## Tuiflies

I use a jello recipie and get 30 ppm in my 29g, moderately planted, low light tank for over a month/bottle. I use two 2L bottles and swap them every two weeks or whenever my total bps drops below 1/s.


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## fabiosoller

I started mine last night on whole weat flour for a 60gal. It did not gelatinezed well and it's a slow bubbler (guess a lot os complex carbs). Let's see what will happen in a couple days...


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## Shurik

peskar said:


> Hi everybody, English is not my native language so sorry for
> any possible mistakes.
> 
> Get the 2L PET bottle and put there 6 full spoons of sugar, 3 full spoons of
> starch and a full spoon of baking soda (NaHCO3). Add approx 2 glass of water
> and put it into a pot with the water level same as in the bottle. It takes about
> 15-20 minutes of boiling. Every 5 minutes shake the bottle to mix the liquid.
> When the liquid becomes a sort of jelly cool down the bottle and add a tea
> spoon of yeast dissolved in the 20 grams of water.
> 
> Should last for 1-2 month.


I really like this recipe and I wanted to try it out. Can someone tell me if Peskar is referring to a tea or a table spoon, and what is 20 grams of water equals to? I would really appreciate some help! Thank you!


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## huaidan

1 teaspoon = approx. 5 grams
20 grams would be less than an ounce


I was really wondering about this recipe myself. I'm not sure I understand. The whole mix seems small for 2 liters, even allowing some overhead space for expansion, etc.

The way Full spoons are mentioned, I assume large spoons or tablespoons. Thus, 3 full spoons could be 1/4 measuring cup, 6 spoons would be 1/2 cup, which sounds way too small. 2 glasses would be a liter at most, using full pint glasses. I'd go with a cup of starch, cup of sugar for 2 liters, but maybe that would be too thick, almost solid. Most people use 2 cups sugar for 2 liters, right? If 1 cup starch was too much, then I'd go 1 1/2 cup sugar 1/2 cup starch.

It seems as if this recipe doesn't use the full volume of the bottle.


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## phea2

hi guys. 

i was using the HAGEN Bio-Component-Set before but then decided to change to the DIY mix... but something went wrong, and i lost 3/4 of my fish population. 

here is my solution: a cup of sugar that i mixed with about 2 litres of water, then add a mixture of 1/2 tablespoon of yeast and 1 tablespoon of baking powder.

it start producing Co2 immediately after setting the whole thing. i noticed that some of the mixture went into the aquarium.

so, any suggestion of what i should do, or what i did wrong?


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## dannyfish

OrangeCones said:


> I use no ferts but add 2 tablespoons of protein powder. I still get only 2-3 weeks of CO2 production, but 2-3 bubbles per second, instead of 1 bubble ever 1-2 seconds.


what kind of protein powder is that?
last you 2-3week huh
your yeast normal yeast?

i using beer yeast and the mixture last 2-3 weeks too


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## Reamer

I'm no master of co2 or anything, but i know that bakers make Sourdough starters that keep yest alive for years, but you will still need to "feed" it (flour and water), and you will more then likely want a much larger container so it doesn't out grow it to fast.


down side is it might not let off as much CO2 (as some will stay trapped)(im just guessing i might test this to see)

the plus side you can use it to make bread out of it mmmm..


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## James0816

Interesting..I use the Jell-o method with brewers yeast and go several weeks without having to recharge the bottle. More times than not, the jell-o is completely dissolved by the time I need to replace it.

Adding uncooked rice seemed to really boost it as well. I now mix a bit into the jell-o right before it completely sets.

DC's hold at green-yellow range.


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## neilshieh

Does anyone know if i can make these gel bottles and put them in the fridge or something till i need to use it?


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## James0816

Not sure how long jell-o lasts but I wouldn't see why not if it doesn't.


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## dannyfish

James0816 said:


> Not sure how long jell-o lasts but I wouldn't see why not if it doesn't.


Hi James

Can you let mr know the step by step procedure of making the co2 with jelly method??


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## James0816

Sure...Kind of winded but it is step-by-step......

Make the jell-o: 1 big box of regular jell-o (6oz I believe and not sugar free), 2 1/2 cups boiling water, 1 1/2 - 2 cups sugar
- In a nice sized bowl, empty box of jell-o, pour in water and stir until dissolved
- while still stirring, slowly pour in sugar (makes it easier to dissolve) until dissolved

Pour jell-o into bottle or as I now prefer, a rectangle tupperware or gladware container. Since I use the Gladware containers, jell-o should be at a height of about 1" or so.

Place in fridge to set up.

Check jell-o around 2 hours. Should not be set up yet but should be thick enough to suspend rice. Test with a grain of rice. If it falls to the bottom, its not ready yet, place back in fridge and try again later.

Once the grain of rice stays on top or just below the surface, sprikle 1/8 cup uncooked and using a spoon handle or similiar, swirl rice around. Rice should be suspended throughout the jell-o instead of sinking directly to the bottom. Place back in fridge to set completely.

Next day (or after jell-o if firmly set):

Activate yeast:

Dissolve 1 tsp sugar in 1 cup hot water.
Once dissolved, sprinkle on 1/4 tsp yeast. I use Cooper's Brewers Yeast.
Let sit for ~ 15 mins.

Prepare jell-o bottle:

Remove jell-o from fridge.
Place container in sink of hot water for a few seconds. Makes it easier to remove.
Cut jell-o into cubes or rectangles no particular size but you would want it to go easily into the bottles. By the way, I use Ocean Spray bottles.
Put jell-o in the bottle.
Sprinkle 1/4 tsp baking soda into bottle
Add activated yeast
Using same cup you had the yeast in, fill bottle to curve. Use the same cup to ensure to get all the yeast residue.

Cap tightly and place on your tank. You should see bubbles in a short period of time.

That's pretty much it in a nut shell.


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## dannyfish

Hi James...
thank u for the long procedure .. i will try it this coming weekend...

how long can this mixture last? is the bubble freq or slowly type?


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## James0816

dannyfish said:


> Hi James...
> thank u for the long procedure .. i will try it this coming weekend...
> 
> how long can this mixture last? is the bubble freq or slowly type?


These last me 4+ weeks and it's nice and steady. DCs constantly hold thier green color.


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## dannyfish

James0816 said:


> These last me 4+ weeks and it's nice and steady. DCs constantly hold thier green color.


is it difficult to remove the jelly out when changing the mixture?...

Do we need to pour some water into the bottle? and what level should i fill up to? (cover the jelly?)

Thk


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## neilshieh

its like wandering in the dark with only written instructions, you just have to grow some and do it. find a tall bottle preferably around 2 liters, 1.5 is okay. i just made up my own portions...  so here's my recipe: get those plastic spoons that they give you for asian cuisine to-go, its white/plastic/bendable(kind of). take peskar's original recipe(6 spoons of sugar, 1 spoon of baking soda, 3 spoons of starch) and multiply each of the spoon numbers by 3, that's how many spoon fulls of that plastic spoon you should use. e.g 3 plastic spoon fulls of baking soda. a spoon full is a spoon full, just stick in and scoop some stuff out, don't be nitpicky about how much a spoon full should be. also i use corn starch... put everything into that bottle of yours and then dump 2 drinking cups of water into the mixture (my drinking cups are about 3.6 inches tall and about 3 inches in diameter) shake up everything and fill a pot with water (fill until 1 inch below the surface, the water won't boil over, and any pot will do) also the bottle won't melt...just a heads up. then just boil it... you can add some regular aquarium plant fertilizer into the mixture your choice... stir when you remember, go do whatever you need to do... 
(i use 2 disposable chopsticks bound together at the end with a plastic tie to stir the stuff) after stirring and taking out your stirrer check the quality of the mixture stuck to the stirrer. it should be like hair gel or like *ahem* personal lubricant... then turn off the fire and let it die down and just either put the bottle aside to cool off or stick it in the freezer/fridge. be aware if you put it aside after 2 hours its still warm... then put in water mixed with yeast. i put one plastic spoonful of yeast mixed with 1/5 drinking cup of lukewarm water and there you're done  hope i was descriptive enough... i rather like this gelled reactor... better than the liquid, but not as much as the actual cylinders. also to quench questions when you tilt the bottle after taking it off from boil, the top my still be a little bit liquidy but not as liquid as water that's okay, the bottom where the water was should be more firm or just boil longer.


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## James0816

dannyfish said:


> is it difficult to remove the jelly out when changing the mixture?...
> 
> Do we need to pour some water into the bottle? and what level should i fill up to? (cover the jelly?)
> 
> Thk


Keep in mind that this is Jell-O not jelly mind you.

As for ease of removal. Rather simple actually. Most of the time, there is only water that remains. On occassion I will have a very small amount of Jell-O left in the bottle. Just rinse the bottle out with regular water does the trick for me.

You will need to add additional water to the bottle. If you're using a 2l pop bottle or the Ocean Spray bottles, fill with water to where it starts curving. I would guesstimate this at ~ 2-3 cups.


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## neilshieh

someone should turn this into a sticky....


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## peskar

huaidan said:


> It seems as if this recipe doesn't use the full volume of the bottle.


Usually it uses 50-60% of the inner bottle space.
Also I did not mean tea spoons. Again with this recipe you shouldn't be to precise
with amount of ingredients.


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## peskar

Shurik said:


> I really like this recipe and I wanted to try it out. Can someone tell me if Peskar is referring to a tea or a table spoon, and what is 20 grams of water equals to? I would really appreciate some help! Thank you!


Table spoons.

(Обычные столовые ложки )


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## peskar

dannyfish said:


> is it difficult to remove the jelly out when changing the mixture?...
> 
> Thk


At the end of its use it becomes a water like so its easy to 
remove.


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## mkiiisupradude

I just did a recipe with 2parts water, 2 parts sugar, 1 part corn starch and 1/2 part protien powder. its like the yeast is on steroids. My diy reactor (200 gph powerhead into a syphon tube) cant keep up any more, probably a good thing though, dont want to gas the fish. Ill post here again when it runs out.


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## mkiiisupradude

well, not too bad. finished pretty abruptly a couple of days ago. I dont think I got the starch part right though things were pretty consistent after it slowed down after the second day. Dropped to an almost perfect 1 bps. 
next time I need to let or get the gel to set up better I think. I suppose since I need to now I will adjust the recipe tonight and report back here again later.


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## Sketch

wow this is awesome. im gonna try this out tonight.


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## Sketch

well ive done it, but i've got no starch so i used tapioca flour instead. so far so good, we'll see how long this lasts.


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## Jeffww

1 litre of water to 1 cup of sugar. 
A squirt of pH buffer and a few drops of Seachem complete and a few ml of old yeast solution does the trick for me. Colonies last 3-4 weeks. But only .5-.3b/s


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## nap83

as far as keeping the water warm for the yeast to react, has anyone put the diy co2 in a container, half filled with water and a heater to compensate? 

i have a nano heater i have laying around and would like to explore this option if it helps.


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## giypsy

The water for yeast starter in _every_ variation of these recipes should 
be between 90 and 120F max. These yeast strains are sensitive to heat.
No heaters necessary.

Nice to see this thread bubbling along a year after we decided it might 
be a nice home-brewing thread.

:drinkers:


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