# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Black brush & black string algae from hell.



## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

Since I moved about 2 months ago, I've been having a hell of a time with black brush algae. I did a quick test of the water today:

FE: 0
PHO4: ~5 (high)
NO2: <.3
NO3: < 8
ph 6.2 ~ 6.5
Ammonia: 0
KH: 2
GH: 0

weekly 40% water changes.
I added 3 bags of phosphate remover to the ehiem 2226.

I just did a 20% water change.

Tank is 66 gallons. Heavily planted & med fish load of tetras.

I'm going to start doing biweekly or triweekly water changes.

Is there any other way to reduce this phosphate level?
No fertilization or iron being added. Any time I do that, the stuff takes off again.

Substrate: profile with flourite added.

Suggestions?

Later.

Doug.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

Since I moved about 2 months ago, I've been having a hell of a time with black brush algae. I did a quick test of the water today:

FE: 0
PHO4: ~5 (high)
NO2: <.3
NO3: < 8
ph 6.2 ~ 6.5
Ammonia: 0
KH: 2
GH: 0

weekly 40% water changes.
I added 3 bags of phosphate remover to the ehiem 2226.

I just did a 20% water change.

Tank is 66 gallons. Heavily planted & med fish load of tetras.

I'm going to start doing biweekly or triweekly water changes.

Is there any other way to reduce this phosphate level?
No fertilization or iron being added. Any time I do that, the stuff takes off again.

Substrate: profile with flourite added.

Suggestions?

Later.

Doug.


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## captain (May 12, 2006)

Is there phosphate in your change water?

-Steve
See profile for tank info


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## wetmanNY (Feb 1, 2003)

I'm figuring there's no silty colloidal stuff in your substrate, that would be adsorbing PO4.

I'm figuring you have a canister filter you clean at long intervals. In between times, organic phosphate is reduced to orthophosphate by bacterial decomposition in the filter.

I'm figuring the tetras are fed flake feed every day without fail. Maybe twice some days.

I'm figuring plant growth is moderate, and you don't prune out leaves when they first begin to yellow.

How are my hunches? Do you see the phosphate angles in my figurings?


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

Fish are fed flakes once a week, twice at the most. Blood worms, pellets. Feeding is monitored closely. Not what they can consume in 3 mins.

Cansister is cleaned ~ every 3 months. 3 bags of green-x inside. replaced every 3 months.
Plant growth is good, but has now improved since the tank has finally stablized.

Plants are trimmed weekly. Roughly 2 hours /week for plant maintence alone.

water changes 50% weekly. Now I'm going to do 30% biweekly to reduce the PHO4 levels.

I've been adding Seachem neutral regulator, but have since stopped as this may have been a contributor to the PHO4. I also add Kent: ph stable to raise the KH & GH. I'll still use the Kent: PH stable.

I'm going to add another 3 bags of Green-x to the tank to absorb the excess PHO4 as well as add CO2 & keep the water changes happening.

There is no Pho4 in the water by itself.

Should I remove all of the plants that have some black brush on them? 

I'm heasitant to add any new ones as they will be attacked by the algae as well. Or should I to help increase the intake of PhO4?

Any other suggestions?

Later.

Doug.


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## Kathy (Feb 2, 2003)

That's a lot of phosphate! I keep reading that some of the stuff to regulate pH has phosphate in it but I can never remember which ones. With what you have written, yours sounds like one of them!

What about just changing water daily for a week or so to lower the phosphate and get the neutral regulator out of the water? I just took 20 gallons out and put back in twenty minutes with my long python hose. Don't need to fuss with the plants, scrape glass or mess with the filter every time of course.

Adding the CO2 should be very helpful. If you have a problem algae I read that the CO2 level needs to be kept very steady or it doesn't help as much.

What algae eaters do you have in the tank? My SAE in the large tank keep the black brush algae down to just a black edge on some leaves. When I put a couple of small crypts from that tank into my ten gallon tank the black edge grew a couple strands. Three amano shrimp added, no more strands and black edges gone. Never was the algae at more than barely showing though, not at a problem level.

I thought my phosphate level was high but it turned out the nitrate was low so plants weren't using the phosphate. Your nitrate is okay, what happens if you add potassium?

A four day black out works with green water, green dust, green spot alga. Not sure if it works with BGA or the red alga like black beard and the others. Anybody?


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## jpmtotoro (Feb 13, 2003)

i second kathy, check your PH stuff, most PH stuff is NOT suitable for the planted aquarium. i started using some stuff from seachem to lower my PH then i realized i didn't care what my PH was because the fish were fine. if KH and GH is your issue... i think you can add baking soda for KH, not sure about GH though, i'm sure someone can give you a definite answer. as far as your nasty little problem, guess who just had to deal with the exact same thing? yours truly! my chemistry sucked and the algae took off. i will tell you what worked for me. the trim method didn't work too well because new growth was getting covered too quickly and i couldn't keep up with physically removing it, so finally i did a tear down. took almost all the water out (i also used this time to re-aquascape) i filled 'er back up and tried to get the water chemistry better this time and i've been watching it closely. during this time, i dumped all my plants in a bucket and let them sit for well over 24 hours. the plants weakened a bit and i don't think it did much against the algae (this is where i'm recommending you NOT try a lights out period, even though it was for probably 36 hours, it didn't seem to contribute anything). so now i look into my bucket of dying plants covered with algae that have been hacked down to the base trying to out trim the algae... so i resort to my last defense... BLEACH BATH! 19 parts water, 1 part bleach (no clue what my ratio was, mine was a 'glug glug glug glug' of water and a 'slurp' of bleach) anyway, i held the plants upside down in the bleach water and soacked the leaves that were heavily covered. after about a minute, i chucked them into a bucket with heavily dechlorinated water. i then stuck them back into the tank so i could see them better. basically, most of the algae turned white but still clung to the plants, BUT it was weakened and i was able to gently massage the big bushes off of the leaves. unfortunately the plants were hurt too during this, especially since they were trimmed and then bleached (if you bleach, skip the trimming, the plants will need those leaves again!) but none of the existing leaves have died since this episode (one week ago) and the plants have begun to grow some new leaves so i'm confident that they will be ok. the algae didn't die off, but i was able to remove a bunch and it the growth was halted. after about 5 days it started to grow again (very slowly compared with before, chemistry was probably better, but the plants weren't growing full steam yet) but during that time i jumped on aquariumfish.net and ordered 10 amano shrimp and 4 siamese algae eaters. so just as the algae starting to rebound, my new babies came in the mail and little by little the plants are getting cleaned off. the fish and shrimp were cheap, but the S&H was sorta expensive, but they seem to be working fine (i think it is mostly the SAE doing the work, but the amano shrimp work on other algae). if i had to do this all over again, i would do order some SAE and amano shrimp and figure out my chemistry ASAP, and while i was waiting for all that to happen i'd probably do a big fat water change and bleach bathe the larger plants with heavy algae growth. the healthier the plants are, the more likely they will recover quickly. mine were weak, but still didn't die. the bleach bath slowed the algae down until my clean up crew came in. i'm sorry this is long winded, but i had a huge headache trying to get this stuff under control and i couldn't stop it until i completely attacked it, so i would recommend not screwing around with it and just getting going nuts with it. i'm not sure how bad yours is compared to the stuff i got, but water changes and chemistry changes weren't helping (i dealt with it for a few weeks). this is just a big fat detailed account of what worked well for me and i'm hoping you'll be able to find some useful info somewhere in this blog. i've had the SAEs for 2 or 3 days now and 2/3 of the algae is gone now and it appears new algae growth is virtually 0 (thanks to the SAEs and better water quality). good luck with your problem, many other posters as well as myself will do our best to help you out. i don't know if what we provide is true text book knowledge... more like experience. so in short, i hope you find our previous experiences helpful in your endeavor. after you have beaten your algae issue, you'll be able to post your own experience. good luck!


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## jpmtotoro (Feb 13, 2003)

one other thing, while reading another post (i think from rex) he mentioned that carbon in filter media can sometimes leak phosphates, as well as react with useful trace minerals in the water... it might not help your phosphate issue, but it's a possibility. not sure if you use carbon media in your filter, i doubt it actually, but i try not to assume too often.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

No carbon in the filter.

I have about 25 japonica shrimp in there as well as 4 ottos. The SAE were sold back to the store as they just layed around being bums.

The japonica are going at the algae, but even they're having a hard time keeping it under control.

The lighting schedule is on for 12 hours. CO2 will be added today at a bubble rate of 1-2/min to see how it takes off. I'm also going to add a few more plants to get the upper edge of this. I'm also going to add some crushed coral to the canister to help harden the water. My water here is normally GH 0 & KH 0.

I'm going to stick with the 30% triweekly water changes and add another 3 bags of green-x to remove the PHO4. This is way too high.

Fish and shrimp are happy. Everything else is fine. I think it may have been the Seachem stuff I was using. No iron will be added and fertiliation will be VERY minimal at best.

Any other suggestions anyone?

Later.

Doug.


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## jpmtotoro (Feb 13, 2003)

your SAEs were being bums? bummer! were they SAEs or flying foxes? actually i think both are supposed to go after BBA so i suppose it doesn't matter... my SAEs are going after the stuff hard core. OH rosy barbs i think are also supposed to go after BBA. pretty sure it's rosy barbs that will... perhaps that is another option. other than that, i suppose keep going on your water changes, and keep nutrients in check. just make sure your plants are getting the nutrients they need. another possibility... someone reading this please verify... a diatom or UV sterilizer? they should kill off algae spores in the tank (unfortunately it should also take some nutrients out so don't run it for long) but you could borrow/rent one from your LFS (if they are nice) and you could run it every once in a while to keep the algae from reproducing so much. i don't think it's going to cure your problem, but it might be another tool to help your fight, but i haven't tried this so i would read some other posts or ask someone who would know better before trying such a thing. good luck!


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2003)

Well CO2 will certainly help things.

You are going to need to deal with a few things.
PO4, water changes will reduce that, don't use removeres, it's a waste of $.

pH regulation: don't add anything except baking soda for KH(bring up to 3KH) and use CO2 gas ONLY to lower the pH to 6.5 and keep it there. 
That's all you need to do there.

See what the tap water has for PO4 and NO3(call them and ask).

You are not going to beat BBA by removing PO4.

You will by providing good conditions for the plants, CO2 is a very large part of that.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## anonapersona (Mar 11, 2004)

My rosy barbs are eating the brush algae. It seems to be somewhat better after I lowered feedings to once daily, for I saw wetmanNY's question about feeding and realized that was part of the source of the algae in my tanks. 

Five days later and the rosy barbs are so hungry they are tearing it off. I see maybe 20% coverage instead of 90%. Both the barbs are rolly polly fat, particularly the female, and they only got a fair share of feed this AM. Both were trim after breakfast, but pudgy now. 

I may have to go back to twice daily feedings just so she doesn't go after the shrimp next.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

I started the CO2 at 3 - 4 bubbles/min. SO far so good. I then increased it to 6/min. I did notice a cardinal tetra start to act flakey. It sort of floated around looking almost dead. So I added an aristone to the tank. No one else is experiencing any problems. This could be a random effect and coquincidental.

30% water changes 3 times weekly and cutting off any parts I see.

I'm going to monitor this closely. I just can't seem to the the PO4 down. It's still up around 5.

Later.

Doug.


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## anonapersona (Mar 11, 2004)

"KH = 2 GH = 0"

How easy is it to OD with those values? It sorta reminds me of the guy on PlantedTank that OD'ed a 50 g with DIY CO2.


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## b3dlam (Feb 1, 2003)

spaceman,

I would decrease the lighting period to 10hrs. Anything over this period is only feeding algae as the plants internal 'clock' tells them to go into sleep mode....
I am assuming you are feeding them frozen foods along with the flakes. To minimise the amount of polution added to the tank, dissolve/melt the frozen cubes in a glass/bowl. Using an oversized eye dropper (you can get them from the chemist/pharmacist), just siphon the worms and feed them to the fish... Before I did this on my setup, the surface scum would accumulate quite quickly....

hth


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

Will monitor. I'll drop the lighting down to 12 hours.

I have noticed a couple of fish sort of acting strange with the increase in CO2. They seem to be moving a little sluggish. Nothing is dead, all the others seem ok.

Later.

Doug.


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## jpmtotoro (Feb 13, 2003)

keep monitoring, you may want to increase slowly. my guess is that you might dissolve lots of CO2 into the water, but your plants haven't started to use it yet (and release O2) so you may be a bit high in the saturation department. adding the airstone is gonna cause some surface turbulation, is it not? might lose some CO2 that way anyway and end up chasing your tail, but at least it'll keep your fish from croaking. perhaps start the CO2 kinda low and slowly raise it over the next few days? my thought is this way the fish can acclimate and the plants can slowly ramp up photosynthesis. just a thought.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

I've checked the ph. It's stable around 6.6 ~ 7.

I have lost 3 fish. 2 rummny nose & 1 cardinal.

I turned the bubble count down to 2/min. The water here is so soft that I'm having a hard time getting the KH & GH up. KH is now 4, GH still 0.

I also noticed that my seloniod isn't working. Last night the co2 was still going into the tank.
I unplugged it and checked it when I got home from work today. It's still bubbling away.

It's getting replaced Friday.

Any idea what I'm doing wrong here? I've had to add an airstone to keep the fish happy.

Later.

Doug.


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## Avalon (Mar 7, 2005)

I'm not so sure I would say that you're doing something wrong, it's more that you are doing the best you can with what you have and things aren't working out.

A stable CO2 supply at very particular levels is an absolute must. A balance between CO2 levels during midday and oxygen levels at night must be met. It's really not hard to do; when you get your equipment up and running correctly you will see.

I've had the same problem with algae as you now describe. I've since taken a much closer look at nutrient levels vs. plant growth to see where my problems are. If I dump the "appropriate" amount of nutrients in the tank and the plants are not growing as they should, the algae is. This means that either algae has too much of a hold and must be physically removed, and/or my CO2 levels are not correct, and/or my light levels/intensity is not appropriate. 

What I have found that really helps is to back off on the nutrients until plants begin to take hold over algae. When the plants are able to pull the nutrients "away from" the algae, they will gain a foothold. However, if they run out (2-5 days), algae will run rapid and take over as plant growth essentially stops.

When plant growth is not optimal, algae will rear its ugly head. There is no simple flowchart to remedy certain types of algae. The main concern is to get the plants growing to their best potential.

You may wish to add some crushed coral to your filter if possible. This will buffer your water some. I would not worry about over-buffering; I have some pretty darn hard water and I can grow almost any plant. Find your min and max hardness (KH, before and after water changes), and use the CO2 chart to plot your CO2 levels.


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## imported_molahs4 (Feb 3, 2003)

To raise the GH you can go to a microbrew store and buy some Calcium Carbonate- CaCO3. I added it to my 90 gallon 1/2 teaspoon at a time until the GH went up, but the KH barely budged. Some Arm & Hammer took care of the KH.

See my profile for tank specs.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

I've added a 1/2 kilo of crushed coral to the cannister filter. It's hopefully going to stablize the GH & KH on me.

I just found out today that the local city is going to start flushing the water lines and going to be dumping extra clorine into the water. Great! Just what I need when I have to triweekly water changes to get my PO4 down!

Later.

Doug.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

I replaced the defective seloinod value and started to slowly add co2 again.

I lost 2 fish.

It looks like I'm going to have to get the GH up and KH up.

GH is zero, KH ~3.

crushed coral will help the situation. I'm also going to start adding some baking soda to help as well.

CO2 is off until I find out what I'm doing wrong.

Later.

Doug.


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Did you get your PO4 level back down?
If not change the water until it is under control, less than 2ppm.
Then check your KH again.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

PO4 is still pretty high.
I spent 2 hours yesterday triming out affected plants. I ripped up part of my crypt bed and replanted it.

I've got the PO4 down to ~3 from 5. It's still way too high. Water changes and adding baking soda as well. 

Going to monitor the tank. 

Where would be a good level of KH & GH? ~3 for each?

Later.

Doug.


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Yes, 3 or 4 dKH & dGH should be fine.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

checked the tank tonight after work, another dead fish. Crap!

KH 3.5, GH ~1.
PO4 still up there.

30% water change tomorrow.

Black brush starting on new leaves.

Later.

Doug.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

Stats as of today:

30% water change. Removed affected leaves. I have noticed that the ph is now ~7.1 since adding the baking soda.

PO4 is still up above 3.

Any other suggestions?

Later.

Doug.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

PO4 is down ~2. Still a ways to go.

I added some tropica master grow to the tank as well as another 30% water change.

I've also started the CO2 up again at 3 bubbles/min.

KH ~3.4, GH ~1
PH 7.0 - 7.2

Later.

Doug.


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## Southrock (Feb 3, 2003)

I notice that whenever you mention CO2 dosing you refer to it as bubbles/min. I'm hoping you're meaning bubbles/second. I dose 1-2 bubbles/second in a 180G, and sometimes my ph climbs close to 7.0 (I try to keep it around 6.8).

I'm also struggling with bba, and I have very little phosphate in my tank, in fact I have to add it regularly, so Tom's right when he says you won't beat bba by removing PO4. I just tried a 3 day blackout after a water change and dosing of KNO3. After the three days I did another water change (about 50%) and dosed fully macros and traces. The tank looks better right now, and I am reducing the photoperiod from 11 hours to ten. Don't know if it will work, but, as you know, it beats trying nothing!
Good luck, I'll check back to this post and see what works for you, and if this works for me I'll let you know.

-SR


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

No I DO mean bubbles/min. I had some problems initally with starting the co2.

I'm going to slowly bring it up over time. I'm monitoring the cituation slowly.

PO4 is slowly decreasing. Another bad of PO4 remover this weekend and more water changes.

Later.

Doug.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

I replaced the 3 bags of green-x in the cannister today and spent a hour picking up gravel that had black brush growing on it.

It's slowed down a little, but this is getting ridiculous. My annubis has 1 leaf left on a pathetic stock. My glossistigma is reduced down to a patch the size of a quarter. It seems I remove a small handfull of effected leaves everyday.

CO2 is now at 1 bubble/sec. nitrates & nitrites are near 0, PO4 is ~2. I'm still continuing with the water changes every other day.

I'm determined to beat this. I'm not letting the algae get any worse.

Later.

Doug.


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## b3dlam (Feb 1, 2003)

spaceman,

Having a 0ppm nitrate is not good to beat BBA....

Try to get the levels up to about 5ppm...


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## b3dlam (Feb 1, 2003)

spaceman,

I was trying to find the lighting levels of your tank but couldnt find it anywhere in this thread...

Are you using FL or PC or MH?
How high is your tank?


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

NO2 < 0.3
NO3 < 8

Those levels are fine.

lighting levels are: 160 watts of generic Fl aquarium bulbs on for 10 hours/day.

Standard 250 L (66 gallon) tank.

Later.

Doug.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2003)

For GH:
You can use pool Calcium hardness increaser, should cost about 8$ US for 5-7kgs. It's CaCl2 which you will find is much easier to dissolve.
Mix this with 4:1 ratio of MgSO4, Epsom slat. 
GH needs both Ca++ and Mg++. Raise to the about 4 or so. Add CaCl2/MgSO4 + baking soda for KH after weekly water changes.

Turn CO2 on/off with a power head that runs the CO2 reactor and put the CO2 gas input on the suction side of the powerhead. Plug the power head into the lighting timer. 
This will shut the CO2 off at night when you don't need the CO2. 

You can leave the CO2 on all the time also.
But just be careful to have some surface movement, just not a lot etc.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

I've added about a kg of crushed coral to the cannister filter.

I was adding some baking soda slowly to raise the GH, but the ph started to get too high.

Later.

Doug.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

No changes.

I've skipped the water change for one week.

It's back worse than ever. I'm not kidding.

Food was looked at, feeding times, water parameters looked again.

Now what? Change the lighting?

The bulbs are generic GE plant & aquarium bulbs. 6500K on for 12hours.

I'm really stumped on this one. All the gravel I removed is effected again.

Later.

Doug.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

I spent another 45 mins removing affected gravel from the tank last night.

Ph 7.5 last night, 7.4 this morning.

I've also changed the bulbs on the front of the tank to full spectrum bulbs. I've had good results with these in the past and these maybe a factor in the problem as well.

CO2 is now 2-3 bubbles/sec.

Plants are now growing better.

Later.

Doug.


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

CO2 is probably your problem, You have low - no CO2 unless your water is liquid rock!


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## b3dlam (Feb 1, 2003)

I am at lost with this one.....









The pH near the start of the post is totally different and seems to be forever changing. With 2-3 bubbles a second, you would think the pH would decrease, not increase. Something is not quite right.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

I'm going to go over the tank completely this Friday. I'm going to remove most of the crushed coral I have in the cannister as I'm sure this is raising the ph.

I will advise as of what is happening after Friday.

The plants are starting to show signs of good growth, the fish are happy, shrimp aren't showing any signs of problems.

I'll advise how things are Friday.

I'm working late this week and getting home late isn't a good time for me to start messing with the tank.

Later.

Doug.


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2003)

Well, when you are totally tried and worn out, you can start by working on the CO2.

Till that's dealt with, you are wasting your time. 

Once that's taken care of, GH and NO3, K levels need to be increased. After the CO2 is in good shape then you can move on to the nutrients which are pretty simple.

I question your test kits on the PO4 readings. I don't think the kits are particularly useful or accurate.

What is the delievered PO4 from your tap water according to the water company? Call and ask for that and the N-NO3 levels. 

Your pH should dropped to 6.6 or so and kept there for the entire light cycle.

Do that before you do anything else. 

For BBA on gravel: replant section and rotate the top layer of gravel at least 1-2 inches under and bring the deeper gravel up on top.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

Before I started to add the CO2, the BBA was a problem.

Turning over the affected gravel has no effect whatsoever. The new gravel is affected in the same spot, the same way.

In adding the CO2, the plants have shown a definate increase.

I'm sure the PH issue is the added crushed coral to the cannister to raise the KH.

I'm going to go over the tank tomorrow and reset it back to normal in a sense to start off from square one again and see what happens.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Later.

Doug.


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## ASD (Feb 8, 2003)

Spaceman Spiff,
I would bring up the KH to at least 5 or six. This will buffer the pH after CO2 injection.

KH is carbonate hardness, which is a measure of the dissolved CO3- ion. So, calcium carb (CaCO3) will also raise KH, but much slower, as CaCO3 is sparingly soluble. Hope that helps

ASD


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## Spaceman Spiff (Feb 22, 2003)

I've cleared out another patch of BBA. I removed the gravel in the area as well.

I dropped another $50 on plants this weekend scouring the local fish stores for Tropica plants. I got some nice sunset hygrophilia, microsporium (2 different varieties) as well as a couple of others. 

Fertilizing with 2 ml of Tropica Master grow every other day. I'm going to watch closely on what's happening. 

Since adding the SAE's, I had an out break oc ICH. Temp 85 degress for a week, with half doses of meds to clear out the ICH. I'm not doing the full med recommendation as I have ALOT of Japanica in the tank. 


I'm slowly dropping the PH as well as raising the GH.

Thanks for the suggestions.
Will advise in a weeks time.

Later.

Doug.


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