# Ich Journal



## mpe1329 (Sep 1, 2007)

Thought I'd share my experiences battling ich for anyone who is interested. I did not quarantine fish I added to a new cycled plant tank and am paying the price. Two days after adding them, I noticed Ich spots on 4 Neon Tetras. After doing some quick research, I found several posts (not necessarily here) that Kordon Rid Ich was an effective treatment and would not kill the fish or plants if used properly. (I know that raised temp and salt seems to be the preferred choice, but I just couldn't accept adding that much salt to a planted tank.) Plus Rid Ich touts itself as safe to use with "scaleless" fish, including catfish and tetras. Since almost all the fish in my tank are in that category, it seemed like a safe bet for the fish at least. 

I raised temp to 85 degrees, raised spray bar and internal filter above water line to increase oxygen levels and treated as per directions (1 tsp per 10 gallons). I also added a 2d UV sterilizer having found a relatively cheap one at Pet Smart when I went to get the Rid Ich. (Has anyone else noticed that PetSmart prices on an increasing number of items are competitive with internet/mail order houses?) Otherwise business as usual -- pressurized CO2 during day, EI ferts, lights on for 8 hours, fish fed lightly once a day. After 24 hours, I did 33% water change and dosed again. Next morning, 1 dead Neon, still spots on several others. After 48 hours, another 33% water change and another dose of Rid Ich. Next morning, 2 dead Neons and 2 very dead Clown Plecos. Ottos, several Neons and plants (including various swords, crypts, and stem plants) looked stressed. My gut says it's the Rid Ich that's to blame for death of Plecos and stressed tank conditions, but I obviously could be wrong. Tank is in my home office where I work all day and splashing water from tank resulted in unpleasant chemical/medicine odor. I couldn't help thinking of comments I had read about link between a rid ich ingredient and cancer. Decided to abort rid ich and switched to organic product from Kordon called Ich Attack last night after another 33% water change. I will update this thread as saga continues.


----------



## mpe1329 (Sep 1, 2007)

(Wednesday) First day after discontinuing Rid Ich and starting Ich Attack regimen (1 tsp of IA per 10 gallons following 33% water change with temp still at 85), no dead fish. Plants are pearling and fish seem less stressed. Still 2 or 3 Neons with 1 spot on each.

(Thursday) Second day after starting Ich Attack regimen. Found 1 dead Neon + 1 dead Otto when lights went on. Neon looked like recent death; Otto could have been dead a day or two based on decomposition. Remaining fish active and look healthy (no more spots on any Neons). Continuing usual ferts, CO2 and feeding.


----------



## npnailer (Apr 16, 2007)

Thanks for this...Ich can be a real bastard at times!
I have had one outbreak, and it was very effectively treated and eliminated with Aquarium Products Quick Cure. I used it at about 3/4 strength, because I wanted to try to keep my inverts alive..and it worked very well. I lost NO fish at all, and as far as I can tell, no shrimp or snails either. I ran the medication for 2 full cycles, with a 50 percent water change between them. At the end of a week, there were NO spots remaining at all, and again, I could find no sign of any casualties. Now..the truth is that the fish I keep are at times effective carnivores, so it's possible I DID lose some to the medication and just didn't know it..but with the shrimp at least, no losses. Plants and all the fish pulled though fine.
I've also used the heat/salt method, and it was also effective(on an earlier tank) but it was very rough on the plants.


----------



## mpe1329 (Sep 1, 2007)

(Friday) Third day of Ich Attack regimen. No dead fish this morning. But 1 Neon has what appears to be tiny tan spot on tail fin. Hope it is scarring from dropped tomont, and not something new. Also another Neon continues to look a bit bloated and moving erratically -- mostly (but not always) head down at 45 degree angle and moving in slight jerks. The way things have been going, it's probably coming down with fishie bubonic plague. Otherwise, SAEs and Ottos seem to continue to improve. Knock wood. More active, especially SAEs. 

One thing of note -- drop checker turned yellow (almost clear) when I added Rid Ich, no matter how much I cut back on CO2. Yesterday, I replaced reagent and it stayed in blue zone for most of day. I suspect Rid Ich messed with readings. I left CO2 on at night (1 bubble per second), and this morning drop checker is green again. Whether because of increased CO2 or discontinuation of Rid Ich or who knows what, most plants seem to be doing better. Ludwigia repens almost at surface of 21" tall tank and is pearling an hour after lights came on. Red tiger lotus shot out leaf to surface overnight, about 6-8" growth spurt. Crypt wendetii appear to have stopped melting and remaining leaves are vibrant and growing. Foreground plants (HC and dwarf hairgrass) not doing well, but they were not doing well before I started medicating. Riccia plates and stray bits that have self-anchored themselves in substrate, however, are doing better. Got new lights (2 x 96 watt 6700 CF w Hamilton reflector) I bought used and will use it as main light positioned to front of tank. Will use old Catfish fixture (2 x 65 watt 6700 CF) for midday one-hour burst. Maybe this will help HC.


----------



## mpe1329 (Sep 1, 2007)

(Saturday) Fourth Day of Ich Attack regimen. Sixth day of ich infestation. Yesterday afternoon a fourth Neon Tetra found dead, and this morning another looking like it’s checking out -- discoloration on both sides of red patch just before tail fin and larger bruise/pinkish blotch on left side of belly. Plus Bloaty who’s still hanging in there. That's at least 4 Neons so far plus 2 Clown Plecs and an Otto. That I know of. I realize now that I have probably been underreporting non-Neon deaths. I can only find 6 of 9 small Ottos and 2 of 5 juvenile SAEs added to tank. Yikes. Either they are doing a good job of hiding (in 75 gal densely planted tank) or they decomposed without my finding them. I suspect the latter. Since cycling, tank has shown zero ammonia and nitrites. Never any signs of CO2 distress. However, last night when doing daily 33% (25 gal) water change/Ich Attach dosing, I saw temp had crept up to 89 from 85 due to lights over glass canopy in semi enclosed hood. Maybe the heat did them in? I lowered heater to 78 and have added two fans to hood canopy. Re plants, no changes from yesterday, but I see now that narrow leaf swords have been deteriorating since I added them two weeks ago (prior to adding any fish). I’m sure Rid Ich/Ich Attack and elevated temps have not helped. I may give up on Ich Attack and just rely on UV sterilizers and daily water changes. Beginning to think I should have just gone this way from outset of infestation. Could not have done much worse.


----------



## rs79 (Dec 7, 2004)

I've only had Ick a few times. Jungle Laboratories makes a cure that doesn't kill anything but Ick. Everything else I've tried either killed fish or didn't kill the ick. I've used only this for 30+ years.


----------



## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

It's a bit late for this advice, but it is not necessary to add salt to the aquarium. 
Just raising the temperature to 90 degrees for a few days will cure the outbreak.

That temperature will not hurt the plants or fish.

Bill


----------



## mpe1329 (Sep 1, 2007)

Thanks for the advice. I will certainly keep it in mind if (when?) I have another outbreak.


----------



## mpe1329 (Sep 1, 2007)

10/9
OK. Ich is gone. Knock wood. But I realized I hadn't tested nitrites since I started dosing tank with Rid Ich (2 days) and then Ich Attack (8 days) with daily 33% water changes. Ammonia measured with Seachem in-tank "alert" thingy has remained at 0 throughout, so I assumed nitrites were the same. I mean, right? My understanding is that ammonia is broken down to nitrite by whatever the hell flavor of bacteria that does that sort of thing. Plus, amazingly from my plant/newby perspective, tank is algae free. Therefore, no ammonia = no nitrites/no algae. So I dipped my cheapo 5 in 1 test strip, and lo and behold nitrites were above 5.0 ppm, the "danger" zone. Must be the cheap test kit, I assumed, since the fish (Neon Tetras, Ottos, Molly & SAEs) looked fine, so I bought an API nitrite test kit and tested again. Same result. At least 5.0 ppm, which is the highest reading possible with this kit. Yikes. I did 66% water change with aged water heated to same temp as tank. Then I tested again. Nitrites are still at 5.0 on both tests! How is this possible? I assume fish would be dead by now if reading was correct or at least showing signs of serious stress. I tested tap water and it showed zero nitrites. Having replaced 2/3 of the water in tank with zero nitrite water, I would assume this would have lowered nitrite levels, at least momentarily. Maybe the medication is affecting the test results? I replaced a bag of zeolite in an internal filter I use to spray CO2 bubbles into tank with a bag of GAC. Three hours after I did so, I tested again, and both tests showed drop to 3.0 ppm. So maybe GAC is removing residual medicine from the tank and this is bringing test results back to normal? BTW, all other test results seem "normal" -- ammonia = 0; nitrates = 20-30 ppm; GH = 75 ppm; Alkalinity = less than 20 ppm; pH = 6.5?; CO2 drop checker in green zone. So has anyone else had issues with test results when medicating?

10/11
I tested again this morning, and tank was still at 2.0 ppm nitrite. So I did another massive (70%) water change. That brought nitrites down to 0.5 ppm. Someone in another thread re strange test results So maybe the readings on the test kits are accurate after all?? But if nitrites really reached 5.0 ppm (and if so they may have been at that level for days), shouldn't my fish have died or at least shown signs of severe distress? Be it hereby resolved, that I will never add another drop of snake oil fish "medicine" to my tank again.

One thing I don't understand.


----------



## rs79 (Dec 7, 2004)

Two other safe methods to kill ick.

1) Get another tank. Fill with water. Transfer the infected fish to it. It needn't be a big tank or even a tank. Get anothet tank, fill with water. Next day move the fish from the first tank to the second tank. Keep movnig them back and forth to a tank with 100% new water. After 10-12 days or so the ick will be gone as you've broken the life cycle of the parasite that absolutely has to have a fish host.

In the meantime the ick in the original tan will have died out.

Diana Walsted wrote about this (fairly old) technique in TFH last year with some resistant ick she had on some rainbowfish.

2) Use a diatom filter 24x7 for a week. It'll filter out the parasites.


----------



## mpe1329 (Sep 1, 2007)

Thanks for the tip, RS 79. I don't think this would work for me though because I doubt I'd be able to get all the fish out without tearing down the tank.


----------

