# poret foam



## foreverknight

does anyone know where you might be able to find poret foam locally?


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## fishyjoe24

all I thought of was the fish gallery as I told you on face book, um what about exotic aquatic in plano, aquatic design in plano or maybe true percula.


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## joshvito

I know you asked for locally, but The only place I know of is online at
http://www.swisstropicals.com/Poret%20Filter%20Foam.html


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## fishyjoe24

joshvito said:


> I know you asked for locally, but The only place I know of is online at
> http://www.swisstropicals.com/Poret%20Filter%20Foam.html


Ha ha, he was talking to me about that place on facebook. is poret foam what is used in saltwater sumps?


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## niko

Swisstropicals for the real deal. The black foam sold in LFS is not the same thing. There is a HUGE difference.

Poret is specifically made for fish purposes. All the other foams may look the same but the material is not the same. Once again - HUGE difference.

For a long time we ran all our tanks with Poret filters and certain air flow. Just 2 weeks ago I fixed a leak in the main air line and instantly all tankg got more air. The tanks were clean, but overnight they got crystal clear, each one of the 40 tanks I have here. I attribute that to the Poret filters.

If you are going to make small cube filters ask me how - it's very easy really, no magic. Also if you don't want to spend money for a big piece of Poret foam + shipping I could sell you a few of these filters made already - tube and ceramic tile (to weigh them down) included. Let me know if you are interested.

--Nikolay


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## Cocobid

Nikolay again you are spot on!!!! Poret is used by so many in the shrimp and angel/discus breeding communities. Rigid foam, know quite a few that keep it in canisters (eheim). Great stuff


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## JustLikeAPill

I wanted to buy some but the minimum size sheet is 13x13 inches.... My Ecco takes 6 inch circular pads and to have progressive mechanical filtration like I wanted (a 10 ppi foam pad, then 20 ppi, then 30 ppi, then 45 ppi finally) I'd have to buy four 13" x 13" sheets just so I could cut out a single circle six inches in diameter from each sheet... And I'd only ever need one since the stuff lasts forever.

I asked if I could buy smaller amounts than the 13x13 sheets and he was very, very nice but said nope.... That was a deal breaker for me... I'm not going to buy four times the amount of foam I need. When you are dealing with a sheet of each ppi size offered, it adds up in cost considering I only want or will ever use 1/4th of what I'd have to buy as a minimum order. 

I considered ordering it anyway and selling what I didn't use... Decided it probably wasn't worth it when I can go to petsmart, pick up some Rena XP foam pads, put Rena XP 20 ppi foam pad over my blue eheim pad (he told me they are ten ppi, by the way) followed by a Rena XP 30 PPI pad. If I wanted I could order just the 13 x 13" sheet of 45 ppi foam to go on top of this, but by the time the water passes through two liters of Bio Rio/Tourmaline/300 ml's purigen, I probably don't need it anyway, and I'd still have to buy four times more than I needed. 

To me, reticulated foam is reticulated foam... As long as I know its aquarium safe and I know the PPI count so I know in what order to put it in the canister, i'm happy. It's not worth buying four times more than I need, paying for shipping as well, and wasting time trying to sell the excess, which might let be break even at best, if i could sell it at all.

If I could have bought one six inch square of each size to trim into a six inch circle pad for my filter, I would have been very happy... But doing is custom order wasnt possible and for a 21 yeah old I can't afford to waste money when the minimum sheet size is four times larger than I need. They won't do custom orders because then everyone would want a custom amount of foam.... Either from a business perspective that would be bad because people could buy watt they need only, or good because more people like me could be able to order in the first place. He'll, I wouldn't mind paying an extra five bucks just for them to go out of their way and cut me out a six inch square of each and sell me what I want, but that can't happen unfortunately.


That said, the guy from Swiss Tropicals was EXTREMELY nice, polite, helpful with questions and I got a response to my email within five minutes... He just couldn't sell me sheets less than 13" x 13 even if I bought one of each size. I understand from a business perspective, but was just disappointed from a personal perspective so I figured Rena foam is the next best thing for me to use since it's locally available everywhere, comes in smaller sheets, lists the pore count (unlike... Almost everyone I can think of except Poret/ Swiss Tropicals, who had to tell me that my blue eheim pads are 10 ppi. Over an hour of googling coulnt tell me that!)

Clint


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## niko

Do a search for Hamburger Mattenfilter. Hopefully during the search you will find a German website that goes into crazy details about the optimal conditions to use a Poret foam. The website is an eye opener. And you will want to learn German too 

Yes you can have a clean tank with virtually any filter media. Even with no filter at all (I've done it).

But as the Xerox advertisement from years ago said "Just because it fits doesn't mean it's right". It showed a big hairy guy (like me) wearing undersized speedos at the pool staring at two girls. 

--Nikolay


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## snowball2020

JUSTLIKEAPILL: I'll be interested in splitting the order with you if you do order it. let me know how much the cost for them is as I'll need some foam for my eheim filters as well.


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## foreverknight

well i'm considering makeing an order sooner or later. basically as soon as i can round up some money


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## Cocobid

Nico...you are tooo tooo funny, great for sharing the German method ...stumbled across that method a few years ago and have been wanting to implement into the 55g Goldfish tank. With an Eheim canister on the small side pulling through the foam. 
So that said I might be interested in some foam also. It would need to be black 3" sheet. Really think with Poret foam I could eliminate one filter on the tank. 
Not sure of the dimensions, but something in this range 13" x 21" that is the exterior so slightly smaller but not much..this one is Bare bottom. 
Do have a question how rigid is the 3" foam???


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## niko

Hm, I wrote the following starting with a simple example but it grew to a big posting about filtration. Please read it carefully - it contains the essence of proper filtration setup. You will learn a lot of common sense things reading this:

I got a 55 gallon tank with 11 (eleven) Synodontis petricola. Each fish is about 7" long.

The tank has 3 of the Poret filters. Each filter is a 6" cube.

When I put the fish in the tank at first they stirred all the dirt in the tank. It was horrible. I cranked up the air in the 3 filters and in about 3 hours the water was crystal clear.

That is NOT to say that Poret filters are great mechanical filters. They are NOT. They are meant to harbour bacteria (and other "living things" that other bio filter medias do not) in a way that the filter never gets clogged from debries and dead bacteria. When brand new the Poret filters seem to not do anything to the tank. But after a month the rules change - an established Poret filter is a serious piece of filtration.

Once again - no mechanical filtration (yes, including Diatom) can compare to good biological filtration. Uninterrupted biological filtration - that's what Poret does.

What is important to realize is that the flow throughout the tank needs to get the dirt moving. Fish that dig or are rough like these big catfish I have make all the dirt go in the water column. Have you vacuumed the bottom of your tank and sucked nothing but clean water? No? Sounds crazy? It is doable I assure you. I've had such a tank in which the water from vacuuming the gravel was crystal clear - thanks to a single active digging fish that actually lived in the gravel and constantly moved under it. 

So when the dirt is in the water column it can actually go in the filter. If you do not have enough water movement in the tank how do you expect the dirt to reach the filters? That's why Amano suggests water movement about 8-10 times the volume of the tank per hour.

(On a local level it works the same - anything that stirs the dirt up makes it go through the filter - pumps, fish, your hand... All of us have seen the big ugly artificial tanks that The Fish Gallery installs in different stores, hospitals etc. They are overstuffed with big fish, big rocks, big wood, and HUGE Plecos and HUGE bottom feeders. All these big and rough fish stir the water constantly. The idea is the same - stir the dirt up, make it go to the filter... and you can visit that tank once a month and have it looking pristine all the time. By the way if I'm not mistaken the idea of such tanks belongs to ADG. And I bet they don't overcrowd the tanks - just make sure big bottom feeders stir the dirt enough to get it moving.)

Big flow is NOT the case with flow through the filter. No need to pump 8-10 times the aquarum volume through the filter. In the filter the water needs to flow at a certain speed. The Germans have figured that out to crazy precision. They also figured that only part of the surface of the Poret actually does the work. And that certain area of the Poret is needed to provide the best filtration. They have formulas on their sites to calculate all that if you want to.

For us it is more practical to be able to set up the Poret as best as we can and then vary the water flow through the Poret and see what flow works best.

Poret, Matala, and Kaldness were the reason I wrote 10 freaking threads here on APC trying to raise awareness about proper filtration. If these 3 words sound like Greek to you sit down and do some research. Don't live in the Middle Ages of Aquaria like most of us do.

Bottom line: Hope many people locally start to use Poret.

--Nikolay


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## TanyaQ2000

you've convinced me Nikolay.....sent an email to Dr Tanner outlining what all i have and his suggestions and got a reply today....I think i'm giving up all mechanical filtration and going to this exclusively! just gotta get the money together as converting 5 tanks will not be cheap but i'm tired of replacing impellers


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## foreverknight

i honestly believe this is the way to go for anyone intrested in createing a verry good filter system. i have also been looking into the K1 filter medium online and i see a great ammount of people overseas useing it as a movieing bed filter in the tank with great sucess. what i am thinking of doing is getting both types of media and seeing how well they work and advantages and disadvantages of both of those.


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## digital_gods

What are the prices were looking at? For me, buying a large sheets makes sense because I have 7 tanks in my house and so that would go real quick. If we did a group buy, we could divide out the cost of shipping among the group. I would be interested in participating.


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## Vivarium Concepts

*If we did a group buy, I would be interested. I just need a very small amount, say 3" x 2".
Thanks,
Cindy*


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## joshvito

I'll chime in one more time
http://www.plecocaves.com/
has some too.

@niko,


> Poret, Matala, and Kaldness were the reason I wrote 10 freaking threads here on APC trying to raise awareness about proper filtration.


Can't find these threads, do you have any bookmarked?


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## Ekrindul

joshvito said:


> @niko,
> 
> Can't find these threads, do you have any bookmarked?


Search for "Dummy Question 1". That will lead to the first thread.


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## fishyjoe24

jason is talking to me on FB, I think we are wondering who all would be interested in a group buy?


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## Michael

Can someone direct me to a clear, concise explanation of the filtration method you are discussing? I searched out the "Dummy Question" threads, but grew impatient with the fragmentary nature of the information provided.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Socratic method is great for stimulating people to question their assumptions and consider ethical issues. But when it comes to scientific and technical topics, I much prefer a straightforward exposition of the facts, and then suggestions for practical application.

--Michael


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## TanyaQ2000

I would be interested in a group buy and Robert stated he'd be interested and Vivarium....that's at least 3 and from what i can see from the Swiss Tropicals website, shipping is a flat $10...i have a paypal acct and can head it up if serious but only with pre-payment...let me know


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## JustLikeAPill

I'd be interested in joining if this is allowed. I don't want to break any forum rules.

I'd only want a six inch by six inch sheet of 20 ppi, 30 ppi, and 45 ppi foam so I can cut it into six inch circles for my eheim 2236.

That's like ten bucks worth of foam and the minimum order is four times that amount which is why I didn't make my own order...

I'm not a member of your club and live in Ga, probably excludes me  I actually didn't realize this was in a club forum until after I posted.


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## BobAlston

Before you spend the $$$$ take a look here

http://webpages.charter.net/bobalston/BuklFilterMedia.htm

I created this list years ago but hopefully some of the sources are still available.

MIght save you a $.

Bpb


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## fishyjoe24

Thanks bob that is a good site of yours .


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## niko

Or even cheaper:










Yes - hair rollers.

Since it's all about surface area hair rollers have been used in the past as a biological filter media.

--Nikolay


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## ponchik

Hello,

I'm quite new here from Germany (see my introduction with description of my tank: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/introductions-greets/75101-new-germany.html.

In Germany biological foam filters "Hamburger Mattenfilter" have a significant share (approx. 20%).



> Hopefully during the search you will find a German website that goes into crazy details about the optimal conditions to use a Poret foam. The website is an eye opener.


So Nico has already mentioned a very good website from an engineer who still is one of the main experts on this topic: http://www.deters-ing.de/Filtertechnik/Mattenfilter.htm (Description of the theory, function, how-to with pictures and some calculation formula).

A link on this webiste leads you to an huge amount of online calculation tools: http://www.deters-ing.de/Berechnungen/Berechnungen.htm

I just pick out one which might have the most use for you:
*"Die erforderliche Mattengröße eines Hamburger Mattenfilters"*: Size of foam 
Q = Size of tank (liter)
n = how many times the aquarium volume is pumped per hour
V = speed in the foam (7.5 is considered best)

See also "Die gebogene Matte" (bended foam) to calculate the size of foam for a "Mattenfilter" as in my tank example.

Hope I can help to promote this really great filter concept in the US. We give you foam filters, you gave us Diana Walstad ... 

Denis


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