# Adding fertilizers to NPT's



## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

I know that fishfood is a NPT's fertilizer but what if you have a fish that doesn't believe in leaving food for the plants?

I have a betta and for those who have kept this type of fish before, you will know that it's difficult to leave extra food in the tank with them because they are little piggies with bottomless pits for stomachs and they will eat the food before it gets anywhere near the substrate. Since he doesn't like to leave any food for the plants, would it be okay to add some fertilizers to the tank every now and then? If so, what kind of fertilizer should I use? I'm not having this problem with my guppy tank because they won't eat every single piece of food I put in there.

I'd appreciate any help.


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## Mr Fishies (Apr 9, 2006)

Red_Rose said:


> I know that fishfood is a NPT's fertilizer but what if you have a fish that doesn't believe in leaving food for the plants?
> 
> I have a betta and for those who have kept this type of fish before, you will know that it's difficult to leave extra food in the tank with them because they are little piggies with bottomless pits for stomachs and they will eat the food before it gets anywhere near the substrate. Since he doesn't like to leave any food for the plants, would it be okay to add some fertilizers to the tank every now and then? If so, what kind of fertilizer should I use? I'm not having this problem with my guppy tank because they won't eat every single piece of food I put in there.
> 
> I'd appreciate any help.


I have a bottle of Flourish (regular, not Excel or Iron etc), that I use every few months after water changes or when plants are looking a bit off (ie: holes or yellowing leaves). I use this in a 50G and it's about 3 years old and half used up - so it goes a long way when only used occasionally in a NPT. With a small tank (<10 Gal) you'll be using a couple drops, not even a whole ml at a time.

You can usually find a 500ml bottle for ~$9 - there is a 250ml size, but it seems to be ~ $7 if you do find it.

I've never had any adverse effects since I started using it - I'm sure if you start dosing too much or too often you can get into trouble though.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Mr Fishies said:


> I have a bottle of Flourish (regular, not Excel or Iron etc), that I use every few months after water changes or when plants are looking a bit off (ie: holes or yellowing leaves). I use this in a 50G and it's about 3 years old and half used up - so it goes a long way when only used occasionally in a NPT. With a small tank (<10 Gal) you'll be using a couple drops, not even a whole ml at a time.
> 
> You can usually find a 500ml bottle for ~$9 - there is a 250ml size, but it seems to be ~ $7 if you do find it.
> 
> I've never had any adverse effects since I started using it - I'm sure if you start dosing too much or too often you can get into trouble though.


Thank you.  A few of my Wisteria are starting to get some holes in it and I've had quite a few leaves die off on me as well. Also, some of the leaves on my Crypt has a few holes too so that's why I wanted more info on using fertilizers. I would only use it when the plants start looking a little off, as you said.

I know that Flourish contains calcium and magnesium. Would this harden my already hard water? I've been trying to soften it a bit with peat in the filter. So none of the "ingredients" in Flourish will cause harm to the tank? Again, I'm new to this so I don't know what would be good or bad.

I'm getting a lot more sun onto my 10g now and I thought that was the reason for the holes showing up in the leaves but didn't understand how the sun would do something like that.


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## bartoli (May 8, 2006)

Red_Rose said:


> Since he doesn't like to leave any food for the plants, would it be okay to add some fertilizers to the tank every now and then?


Could it be that you were not feeding enough food? I would feed as much as the fish can take and then a little bit more.


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## Mr Fishies (Apr 9, 2006)

Red_Rose said:


> <SNIP>
> 
> I know that Flourish contains calcium and magnesium. Would this harden my already hard water? I've been trying to soften it a bit with peat in the filter. So none of the "ingredients" in Flourish will cause harm to the tank? Again, I'm new to this so I don't know what would be good or bad.
> 
> I'm getting a lot more sun onto my 10g now and I thought that was the reason for the holes showing up in the leaves but didn't understand how the sun would do something like that.


I'm no chemist, but I don't think that the occasional drop or two of something that contains calcium/magnesium etc at fractions of a percent is going to have a measurable effect on your water hardness.

If you shop around, you may find some similar "general" or "broad spectrum" fertilizer by other companies, or be able to mix up something yourself that has less to harden your water. I can only say the Flourish didn't/doesn't make my NPT blow up.  Maybe you can find a pic of similar symptoms in other posts/forums and figure out if you may be short of something you can add specifically (ie: potassium, nitrogen).

If it is lack of nutrients, as I understand it, in terms of sun causing the holes it could be because the extra light is speeding up the absorption of nutrients leading to the shortage. Just a wacky hypothesis...


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

bartoli said:


> Could it be that you were not feeding enough food? I would feed as much as the fish can take and then a little bit more.


I feed him more then what is recommended for a betta and I have tried to leave food in there for the plants but unlike some bettas, he has no problems eating food that's at the bottom. If I were to leave more food in there even after he has eaten, I know that he would end up with constipation from munching on the extra food I had put in there for the plants. That's why I feel compelled to try a fertilizer every now and then.

My guppies however, will leave some food behind for the plants so I have no worries there. I just wish my betta would do the same.



Mr Fishies said:


> I'm no chemist, but I don't think that the occasional drop or two of something that contains calcium/magnesium etc at fractions of a percent is going to have a measurable effect on your water hardness.
> 
> If you shop around, you may find some similar "general" or "broad spectrum" fertilizer by other companies, or be able to mix up something yourself that has less to harden your water. I can only say the Flourish didn't/doesn't make my NPT blow up.  Maybe you can find a pic of similar symptoms in other posts/forums and figure out if you may be short of something you can add specifically (ie: potassium, nitrogen).
> 
> If it is lack of nutrients, as I understand it, in terms of sun causing the holes it could be because the extra light is speeding up the absorption of nutrients leading to the shortage. Just a wacky hypothesis...


You have a good point there. I guess it would only make a difference with my hardness if I was adding a lot of it weekly or daily but I definitely don't have to go to that extent. lol

One of the LFS' in my city carries Seachem products so I know I'll be able to find it there. Aside from the holes in the plants, another reason why I think there's a lack of nutrients in the tank is because I have some fuzz algae on some of my plants and from everything I've read up on that, it's often caused by a lack of nutrients, which nutrient it is, however, I don't know.

I did come across this post on this site about holes in Crypt leaves and it says that it could be from a potassium deficiency. I know it's not Crypt rot because from what I've read about that, it happens rather quickly whereas I've had this for the past couple of weeks now. As for the sun, the plants in the tank have had a chance to adapt to the new light because it started gradually coming into the tank this past month or so.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Seachem Flourish supplies micro-nutrients only. Plants also need macro-nutrients - nitrate, phosphate, and potassium. 

Nutrient problems are almost always due to insufficient macro-nutrients. In my experience, that is usually nitrate.

Holes in plant leaves can be cause by many things, including snails as well as nutrient deficiencies, and too soft water. Sometimes they just happen, too.

Bill


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

aquabillpers said:


> Seachem Flourish supplies micro-nutrients only. Plants also need macro-nutrients - nitrate, phosphate, and potassium.
> 
> Nutrient problems are almost always due to insufficient macro-nutrients. In my experience, that is usually nitrate.
> 
> ...


I can't see the holes being caused by the snails because it would've happened long before now and I definitely know that my water is not soft. Also, it's not just my Crypt that's showing these holes. Some of my Wisteria are also showing holes in the leaves. That's why I'm assuming that it's a nutrient deficiency, especially if fuzz algae forms when there is a lack of nutrients.

Here's a picture that HeyPK posted on this site. This is what my Crypt looks like.


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## fjf888 (Dec 4, 2007)

I had asked you about this concern a couple months ago I believe, however your tank has been up a lot longer then mine. 

I added 3 tiny pygmy cories to my 6 G tank with my betta. I feed them 1 sinking shrimp pellet at day and put it in different locations, the betta will sometimes peck at it as well, but it breaks down and disingrates and probably leaves a little residue. My betta consumes everything at the top. 

Tom Barr on his website advocates fertilizing on occasion for tanks such as NPT's, his belief is the the soil will be depleted eventually and will you will need to add some fertilizer to sustain the tank.

Fred


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

I dose some of my NPTs, mainly with nitrates. I know that some say that zero nitrates are not bad, but whenever the levels in my tanks get to 1 or under, I get an algae mess. I does KNO3, which also adds a little potassium.

Holey plants: An aquarium is a dynamic environment. If one of the many variables changes significantly, things can change fast. Plants grow and require more nutrients; fish and snails run out of algae to eat and go after the plants; the light intensity changes with age; etc.

A year or so ago my cherry barbs started to munch on hygro leaves, making holes in them. I posted that observation and no one agreed that cherry barbs make holes. Even so, I am about 99 % sure that I saw them doing it.

Anything that weakens plants can lead to holes in leaves as the tissue ages.

As was posted, a little Flourish wouldn't hurt anything.

Bill


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Well I had gotten some Flourish about a week ago and added some to my tank. I only added three drops because it's so concentrated. I'm sure I'll notice more of a difference in my plants after another dosing(I only dosed once) but they have perked up a bit and I'm also noticing a difference in my betta as well.

His fins were rather tattered looking and I thought that he was going to have a problem with his fins all over again but they seem to have improved since I added the ferts to the water. I know that fish can feel the effects of nutrient deficiencies too so that could explain his fins.


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