# Planning first 20g el natural



## oheresy (Feb 10, 2009)

In the next few months I'll be starting a 20g tall el natural tank. I plan on using miracle grow organic soil and Seachem flourite. I'd like some suggestions for plants and lighting. I'd like to use no more than 1.5 watts per gallon. I do plan on light dry fert dosing but no co2 injection.

This will end up being an RCS tank. I'd like to have a carpet plant. What are good low light hardy plants that can be used as carpets? I'd like to grow the carpet out emersed at first then go submersed.

Also, what other low light plants would you suggest for a tank of this size?

I also plan on using a fluval 205 which I will be adding to my 26g bow front tank to seed.

For lighting, I have a Single GLO Life-Glo T5 HO 24W 6700K laying around. Would that be a good light for this?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

If you go with that light, I would supplement with window light, otherwise the plants may not photosynthesize fast enough to keep up with initial bioload. (I only half-way know what I'm saying there, so get some more opinions.  )

Plants that do well in lower light are Crypts (there are MANY crypts you can use in a wide variety of sizes, textures, colors). I don't think you'll get a good carpet to grow unless you have more light or the window light. I have Marsilea in 2 NPT's, but it is a Phosphate hog, so I only "kinda" recommend it. You plan on light fert dosing, so that would certainly help.

The other low light plants like Java Fern and mosses and Anubias will all do well. The Anubias especially if you let the roots grow into the substrate.

-Dave


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

One potential carpet for low lighting is "MAYBE" veilwort. It grows in nature emmersed and forms carpet-like mats, usually with a small moss mixed in. The moss is similar to Christmas or Taiwan moss, and the veilwort is Pellavicinia (species will depend on where you find it).

The reason I say "MAYBE" is that I don't know anyone currently using this species. There are a couple of us testing it in various scapes to see how it does submersed. So far it seems to hold up under submersion, but more data is required before it can be recommended. All that said, you should be able to find it for free in the woods in wet environments where the shading is heavy. If it does well you've got your carpet, if not, at least you aren't out any money. If you want to see a pic of it I have posted several in the Journals forum in the the "Wetland-n-a-Box" thread. Next week (or today if I get around to it) I'll be posting pics of some submersed in a pico where I'm temporarily maintaining a blackwater newt larvae hatch.


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## oheresy (Feb 10, 2009)

What about something like a 24" Aqualight High Output T5 Dual Lamp Fixture? 48 watts is 2.4 watts per gallon though. Would I be able to keep this an el natural with that much wattage?

I was looking for a system that I could use spiral CFL bulbs, but haven't been able to find any fixtures for that.


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## Qwertus (Oct 14, 2008)

I'd just try it if you see algea start to grow cut back on the lighting periods.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

2.4 WPG of t-5 is not too much for El Natural. Plant heavily with a variety of plants and they will do the rest.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

davemonkey said:


> 2.4 WPG of t-5 is not too much for El Natural. Plant heavily with a variety of plants and they will do the rest.


I wish someone had told me what "heavily" meant when I was setting up my tanks. Basically, there should be little to no uninhabited ground.#-o So THAT'S why I'm so good at growing algae...

Just kidding (not really though). I've got similar wpg on my tanks and only have terrible, horrible, no good, very bad algae in the 10 gallon.


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## oheresy (Feb 10, 2009)

If I were to go with the Single GLO Life-Glo T5 HO 24W 6700K (which I'm probably going to do) and natural light from the window, what photo period should I go with? 12 hours?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

oheresy said:


> In the next few months I'll be starting a 20g tall el natural tank. I plan on using miracle grow organic soil and Seachem flourite.
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.


I would definitely leave out the flourite. Its going to react with the organic soil, release iron into the water, and stimulate algae. Stick with a pure soil covered with gravel or sand. One inch soil + one inch sand or gravel.

If you plant heavily with robust plants (Water wisteria, WaterSprite, Rotala rotundifolia, Swordplants, S. subulata, FrogBit, etc) and you get lucky, you may get by.

Please keep carpet plants to a minimum. They'll never grow fast enough to keep up with the nutrient release from a MGOC potting mix, much less the soil mix you're contemplating. You want fast-growing plants to dominate this tank.

I would go with a 12hr photoperiod. Your lighting sounds fine.

Good luck!


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## oheresy (Feb 10, 2009)

Thanks for the reply! No, I haven't started this tank yet. In fact, I started seeding my new canister filter maybe 2 days ago. I haven't fully decided what plants to go with. 

I didn't know flourite would have that effect with the soil. Good to know. I might look into sand. I do plan on planting heavily, and I've reconsidered trying a carpet. 

Thanks for the help. I probably won't start setting this tank up until at least January. I want to get the new filter fully seeded and the bacteria matured.


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## oheresy (Feb 10, 2009)

Would Tropic Isle Tahitian Moon Sand be ok? It says it's extra fine though.

Another question: If I wanted to make raised areas, like hills, would I keep the soil at 1" and build up the sand/gravel only? Or would I build both up equally?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

oheresy said:


> Would Tropic Isle Tahitian Moon Sand be ok? It says it's extra fine though.
> 
> Another question: If I wanted to make raised areas, like hills, would I keep the soil at 1" and build up the sand/gravel only? Or would I build both up equally?


The moon sand sounds like it might be nice.

For the hills, I would build them up with something totally inert-- a rock, stones, etc. Then layer your soil and gravel over it. Keep the soil layer 1". I would try to use as little of the moon sand as you can get away with-- an inch or less.

I wouldn't worry that much about seeding your filter. The soil will introduce plenty of nitrifying and other bacteria. In NPTs, the bio-filter is generally unnecessary (plants and soil purify the water).


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## El Exorcisto (Aug 10, 2006)

If you want a low-grower go with dwarf sag or e. tenellus, just don't use it as a mainstay. I'd spend the extra $15 and get a double fixture. The single is ok, the double would be much better. As for substrate, keep it very, very simple. Plant your plants in dirt, just like you would above ground. The cap of sand is only there to keep the water clean.


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## oheresy (Feb 10, 2009)

I plan on growing some stuff out emersed first, so should I put in the dirt, plant the plants, and cap it with the sand?

As for the light, I already have the single fixture. I can look for a double. How many watts do you think I would need?


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## oheresy (Feb 10, 2009)

The trouble I'm finding, is that I can't seem to find good fixtures (that I wouldn't have to piece out myself) of low enough wattage. I'd like to go with dual spiral cfl's, but the only fixtures I can find are the ones made for reptiles.


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