# My Emersed, Fingers Crossed!



## fish_4_all (Jun 3, 2006)

Well I finally did it, 3 days old and nothing has melted into much yet. 

Emersed growth of HC and others

8/9/06
Started culture with tank water dosed normally. 
8/10/06 Added 500 ml of water and 1tsp. CSM+B mixed at 1 tsp CSM+B/100ml of water. 
8/12/06 Added macros: 500 ml water, 1/4tsp. KNO3, 1/8 tsp. KH2PO4,1/4tspK2SO4, 1/8tsp. MgSO4. 
Undivided side is Schultz Aquatic plant soil
Top left of divided is Schultz aquatic plant soil
Bottom left of divided is Schultz Aquatic plant soil covered with Perlite
Top right of divided is Rockwool
Bottom right of divided is Perlite
Lighting is 1, 20 watt no fluorescent with 2, 20 watt equivalent spiral fluorescents
No lid used to start this off on 8/9/06
HC in the open area is setup so that 3 of them are above the water line a little; the other 3 are below the water line. 
The Rosetta swords are all partially under water with the leaves mostly above. Some have really good root systems; others don’t but show signs of developing them quickly. 
I left some peat pots in the container for one reason. I wanted to see if there would be a difference in growth due to possible absorption or keeping of nutrients in the local area that benefits the plants. If they don’t help then they are all coming out as soon as I see problems with any of them. 

I am completely guessing on how much to dose here so if anyone sees a problem please let me know quickly.

August 14th: Dosed 2 tsp CSM+B mix in 500 ml of water, no noticeable growth yet.


----------



## Aquadise (Jul 26, 2006)

Awsome, keep us updated. Btw, are you going to try soil as a substrate? I heard it works pretty good in emersed setup.


----------



## fish_4_all (Jun 3, 2006)

No soil. I tried 2 of them and had nothing but sulfur smell and massive gas bubbles from them. The inert, non organic materials don't have that. Is why I want to get some flourite and onyx sand. No decay but lots of nutrients. 

No suggestions on dosing?


----------



## Aquadise (Jul 26, 2006)

I dose my emerse setup with Carbonate water, works pretty good since my soil substrate provide most of my nutrients.


----------



## fish_4_all (Jun 3, 2006)

Bicarbonated water/ aka soda water? That would be a good source for CO2, never thought about that. As for soil and nutrients, dosing will help soil also because soil eventually depletes in nutrients. How long I don't know but I would still dose.


----------



## czado (May 26, 2005)

Just wanted to say good luck man. Keep us updated.


----------



## DJKronik57 (Apr 17, 2006)

You don't really need to worry about CO2 in an emersed setup, the plants get plenty of it from the air around them. The atmosphere is anything but lacking CO2! As for fertilizing, I just dilute some ferts in a spray bottle and mist the plants once or twice a day. I just guess as to the amounts, but nothing over the top.


----------



## Aquadise (Jul 26, 2006)

The air has co2, but not a "luxury" amount, if you see in most hydroponics nursery, people still use co2 injection in their nursery to improve growth.


----------



## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

I also read that greenhouses use CO2 to reduce their heating bills.

I think this is a great exeriment. Let us know what works and what does not.


----------



## Aquadise (Jul 26, 2006)

Reduce heating bills? Never thought of that! But that is a huge amount of co2. Also wouln't that be dangerous to breath?


----------



## fish_4_all (Jun 3, 2006)

Yah a lot of nurseries will set up a composting unit to produce CO2 for the plants. The only one in town uses one for it. The CO2 levels get pretty high but the O2 levels stay high enough that it isn't as dangerous I guess. I still don't know if I would want to work in one for 40 hours a week. lol


----------



## fish_4_all (Jun 3, 2006)

Little growth but the best has been from the HC that is both in the deepest water and in the rockwool. The worst is the perlite so far with a brown and green alage growing quickly and I think it will take over the HC soon. The rosetta sword is not growing, all the leaves are wilting and withering but I expected that as it was submerged. The roots are growing very quickly and I expect to see some new growth and leaves in a few days. I still think flourite is the best way to go with the extra nutrient like iron and the others that and/or onxy sand. Going to order some to try as soon as I can find it for less than $25 with shipping. 

I do believe that Aquatic plant soil will work for emersed setups but I think there should be a step of soaking it in a nitrient rich solution before planting or dosing fairly well when you first start the setup. It has a very high Nutrient holding capability, someone will give the technical term for it because it escapes me.


----------



## GreenMachine (Aug 18, 2006)

I have never try using flourite with my emersed setup, but I have done it with soil/peat sucessfully with my crypts. I never dose them because I have already added additive in the soil to cover all the extra nutrients plant might need. HC did the worst in soil, but rosette plants like swords and crypt love the stuff. Good luck on your experiment.


----------



## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

Misc comments:

*huge amount of CO2 to lower heating bills?*
Actually it wasn't that much. That's part of why fossil fuel utilization fears global warming. CO2 has increased around 33% since they started measuring it, and the rate of increase is accelerating...

*algeal gunk on soil/gravel*
On my emersed tank, I am noticing a layer of green algae on top of the florabase I use. It's trivial to scrape it off (it's about 3-5 granuals deep) and replace it with fresh florabase during quarterly maintenance sessions. But, of course I don't like it.


----------



## fish_4_all (Jun 3, 2006)

Added Rotala rotundifolia and Ludwigia repens to see what they do in the setup. Not really good specimens to expect them to survive but thought I would give it a chance. They were suffering in the tanks from hair algae so I took a chance. Will post pictures when I see any noticeable growth.


----------



## DJKronik57 (Apr 17, 2006)

> The air has co2, but not a "luxury" amount, if you see in most hydroponics nursery, people still use co2 injection in their nursery to improve growth.


Most greenhouses use CO2 simply because it's a big, usually sealed, room full of plants. CO2 _is_ limited in this environment, but only because it is sealed and plants use up CO2. Opening the greenhouse up would be an alternative to producing CO2 artifically, however this is not always possible. Also, pumping a greenhouse full of CO2 may have a marginal effect on heating bills, but after a certain point, won't do anything for plant growth. CO2 is only one factor in photosynthesis and there is always a limiting factor.

Therefore, having your emersed setup outside or near a window or in a well ventilated area is fine and it will get more CO2 than it needs. You only have to worry about CO2 if you're growing plants in a sealed area, and considering the average person exhales half a cubic foot of CO2 every hour at rest, if it's an area you're in for an extended period of time, you're fine. Ever heard of Sick Building Syndrome? :faint2:

As for growing HC emersed, I've got a successful setup where I used regular potting soil. The HC loves it and is growing like a weed! I just keep it moist, not even to the point where there is water on top of the soil. I keep it covered most of the day, but open it up to release excess moisture, O2, and let in CO2. I'm using regular 6500K 10W screw in bulbs.


----------



## fish_4_all (Jun 3, 2006)

Well a couple things have changed as you can see. The perlite is gone, the rockwool is gone, both were growing algae, and the peat pots are out because they were desintegrating.

The HC is growing all be it slowly. It looks good in a few bunches and a few bunches look kinda weak but I think that is partly because of I am dosing ferts so sparingly. The rosetta sword is not growing above ground but the roots are growing well. The R. rotundafolia is not doing anything but i have patience and think it will sooner or later.

I really like the Profile Aquatic Soil as it is really easy to use and all the plants grab ahold of it with ease, even the HC. I am going to try and find turface MVP because it is supposed to be very similar.

Still only dosing tank water after a macro dose and CSM+B , alternating each time it needs to be filled up.


----------



## fish_4_all (Jun 3, 2006)

Well it has failed badly. All of the other plants went down a few weeks ago and I finally lost the battle to algae and my HC is now gone. I am thinking about starting a new one with a 5 gallon tank with a sand substrate and trying Ammannia S., Wisteria, cabomba carolina, and whatever else I can find that may grow emersed. Look for my new posts about my new setup.

A lesson to be learned, if you want to try emersed, I would recommend that you try it with a tank and let them grow out of the top. It should be easier and will teach you what you need to know to grow low level emersed setups. I would also recommend using a high nutrient substrate like onyx black sand, fluorite, or Eco for the substrate in shallow emersed setups for best results. I tried Profile aquatic soil and failed badly. Maybe not enough light but other than that I don't know what might have been the cause.


----------



## Aquadise (Jul 26, 2006)

Don't be down, I failed 3-4 times before I get it right. I don't use any fancy substrate, just plain rockwool and alot of humidity. SO USE A LID! My plants do terrible topless, I get all these fungus and crap! I also dose very little.

Ammannia S., Wisteria...extremely simple to grow emmersed, you can simply do that by just floating it on top of the aquarium. BUT cabomba carolina is a true aquatic plants, it spend its whole life in water, and it will not grow emersed. Try crypts, they will die back and grow nice emersed forms.

Some easy plants to grow emersed: Glosso, hairgrass, downoi, hemigraphis traian, bacopa sp., polygonum sp, rotala rotundifolia, ludwigia species, hygrophila species, java ferns, java moss...etc They will grow into emersed forms without much transitioning.

Just a reminder...don't try blyxa, vals and apognetons...they don't grow emersed and never will. 

Have fun experimenting.


----------



## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

Oh, that's really sad news. I have two setups One doing OK, one doing really well. Here's what I did:

*OK-setup -- Anubias emersed*
This is in a 15 tall. I used pots with florabase. Have water up to the tops of my shortest pots. Using a 50 watt stealth heater in the water. Almost totally sealed at the top with a sheet of plexglass I cut myself. Using DIY fixture at the top with 3 of the smallest PC fixtures available at AHS. Water was deionized with GH booster and baking soda added, then micros added via drops.

Things got a bit gunky with algae after the first 6 weeks, and then 8 weeks later. When that happened, I took the plants out, cleaned their pots, cleaned the inside of the tank and replaced 100 percent of the water. Thinking of adding a light dose of nitrogen and phosphorus to see how this does.

*doing well-setup -- Crypt garden emersed*
This is in an 8 hex. Used pots with garden center premium potting soil. Had water almost up to the top of the shortest pot. Used two 18 inch fixtures accross the top of the fixture, old 50/50 tubes I had on hand from 10 years ago.

About three weeks ago, I brought in a marble queen sword (Echinodorus cordifolius 'Tropica Marble Queen' ) divided it and placed three in the tank. Every week or so, I added some micros to the water. Swords are doing better in the tank than they did in the tub outside. I didn't really care much for swords, but since they are doing so well, I'll have to think about some sort of sword garden... This setup has yet to get gunked up with algae.

*Summary*
My background is from growing terrestrial plants since I was a kid and some experimentation with hydroponics some 15 years ago. I'm thinking along these dimensions as well immersed, so that might be why I was successful. Mixing these philosophies/methods provides opportunity for spectaular successes and spectaular failures


----------

