# Thrown into the deap end



## weatherwatcher (Jul 14, 2015)

I have just suffered my first big disiaster in over 40 years of fish keeping. 2 weeks ago the wife shouted me at 11.30 pm to say my tank had a problem. When I came down there was gallons of water all over the floor, just managed to save my 12 inch Oscar and my 3 red sholdered severiums and then rang my mate, got him out of bed to see if he would take the fish in, he is now the proud owner of 4 big fish.
When I had fully drained the tank all the bottom seals could be pulled away from the tank, it was only 2 years old.
So now I have decided to call it a day with the big fish and go back to a planted tank.
I am using some old cacti soil that I save from out of my greenhouse, it has no added ferts and contains garden soil plus some well washed riversand in a small quantity. On top of this will be some fine pea gravel.
As I am going into hospital for a weeks respit care the wife will not let me fill the tank until I come home. She of little faith in my tank sealing skills, they can't be as bad as the people who sealed it in the first place.
I have had a word with Diana Walstad, as I have read her book and it follows much as I did before, only she goes into greater depth than ever I have done, with how she uses the fish food as the only ferts you need, plus no or very few water changes.
So, with not being able to fill the tank, I am going to start it off this week as a dry start with some moss. Already tried out the soil with gravel in some pots in my small tank, no problems with it at all, the plants I have it are doing well. I will take picture of the tank at all stages and post them when I have them.
Should be able to put the first pictures up, sometime next week, after I dry start the moss's. I am really looking forward to getting this right. No rushing to get a tank put together in a day. I will dry start the moss for around 8 weeks and see how it goes. Leaving some for back up. I have some water lettuce on the way, this week which I am going to start off in another tank, so I have a good stock, for when the tank is finaly filled with plants. 
Will keep you all informed on how things are going, be it good or bad, as we all know, not everythings goes as well as we plan it to do.


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## weatherwatcher (Jul 14, 2015)

The tank is now starting to look great, most of the plants are doing really well, just a couple that haven't survived. The amazon swords are now around 2 feet high and have thrown up flowers stems, the guppy grass that was some how mixed in with the moss has been moved to the back of the tank as it was blocking the front of the tank off. The 5 water letuce I brought have now reach a wonderfull level and cover half the top of the tank, the one big problem though is still with the ammonia levels from the soil leaching out, but it is still early days yet and it doe's not seem to be causing any problems with the plants, hoping that the water lettuce doe's it job in removeing the ammonia as it supposed to do. 
How long should it actually take for the ammonia levels to subside.


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## JeffyFunk (Apr 6, 2006)

it totally depends on how much soil you have, etc. in an established planted aquarium, the plants should actively remove the ammonia. if you're still concerned about it, then why not add some dechlorinator like seachem prime to deactivate it? 

how about some pics of the tank?


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## weatherwatcher (Jul 14, 2015)

it is only into the end of its second month, so I am going to give it a while longer before going down the road of adding anything to the tank. There is 2" of soil under the same amount of small gravel on the top.
The plants are all thriving well, with no signs of burnin to the leaves. I am waiting another couple of weeks before I put any pictures on here, as I want to take a few more pitures, before I post any pictures.
This is my first go at using soil in the substrate and it is the first time in over 40 years of life with an aquarium, that I have had any succes with keeping plants alive.
Previous attemts have been in just a gravel substrate, with the plants slowly dying after a few weeks.
The plants are looking good, without all the hastle of CO2 injection, can't fault this method at all so far.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Can't wait for photos! The water lettuce should do an excellent job of nutrient removal if it gets enough light. Do be careful with it as it is very invasive in warm climates. I don't know where you live, but in many parts of the USA it is prohibited.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

There are 2 cycles going on with the ammonia. 

1) Soil is producing ammonia. This is supporting the growth of the nitrifying bacteria, and the plants are removing it. The lower you keep the ammonia in the water the better the soil can release the ammonia. 

2) Nitrifying bacteria are growing. They need the ammonia to grow. Under optimum conditions you can grow enough bacteria to support a full fish load in about 3 weeks. 

3) The combination of both cycles means that the best way to deal with ammonia is to encourage the soil to release all it can, and to use that production of ammonia to raise beneficial bacteria. 

How long has the tank been filled? 
Even the dry start method starts some ammonia release from the soil, and begins the growth the these bacteria. 
What is the actual ammonia reading? If you do enough water changes to keep the ammonia not higher than about 3ppm then the bacteria will grow really well, and most plants are OK with this level. If plants are showing some ammonia burn, then keep the level at about 1 ppm. This will still grow a lot of bacteria, and this lower level will help the soil release the ammonia better. Under 1 ppm the bacteria grows slower. 

Monitor ammonia, nitrite and nitrate to figure out how well the bacteria are growing. 
When the ammonia and nitrite have read 0ppm for a few days, and the nitrate has been rising, it may be that the soil has quit producing ammonia (or is producing so little it is not affecting the test kits), or the bacteria has reached a bit enough population to take the ammonia all the way through to nitrate without a blip in NO2. 
Either way, the tank is safe for fish. 
If you are not ready to stock the fish, then keep on feeding the bacteria with ammonia, just like the fishless cycle.


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## weatherwatcher (Jul 14, 2015)

The tank has now been filled for 4 weeks, took this weeks readings and the nitrate levels are 1 part per million, the ammonia level has dropped off now to just 2 parts per million, and there are no leaf burnning on any off the plants.
I live in the uk, so we have a fairly cool climate over here, this year has been one of the coldest on record, my personal weather station records show that every month this year has so far been below average. We have really not had a summer.
Back to the tank though, the water letuce has really bloomed now, with the other plants and the help for the fore mentioned I think this has gone a long way to getting the levels right in the tankl
The Amazon swordsw have thrown up the flower spikes and the small plantlets that grow off the stems have started to give off roots. The Jave Ferns are also all coved in small platlets, and need to be, taken off soon and planted, to give them a better start.
So far everything is looking good.


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## second (Dec 21, 2005)

Sorry to hear about your disaster I had a 55 let go once, one of the side walls literally came apart from the front wall. I was sitting in my room and all of a sudden I hear running water......hmmm thats strange. Not fun!


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## weatherwatcher (Jul 14, 2015)

I have been told by the local aquarium and fish centre near to us. That a lot of the tanks are now being assembled by robotic arms for the silicon sealer. I can well belive that this was the case with with my tank. It was that badly sealed there was no way it was done by hand. The silicon just pealed away all around the inside of the tank. 
If it has been applied by hand then it would have been fixed to the glass far better than the job they did on mine.
It was an awful lot of work getting the odd bits that had stuck out, bit with a razor blade scrapper and a lot of elbow graese, it all came off. Left it for a week as there was water seeping between the glass. 
I used some marine sealer and you could actually see it going in between the glass. I also took off the plastic angle iron at the back of the tank and sealed along the glass there it was a very poor job, not a cheap tank at that so can't say it was because it was a cheap and nasty tank.
All is well now.
Give me a few weeks until I get some fish in there and I will put some pictures on here. It is now looking very good.


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## Aquaticz (May 22, 2009)

Happened to me twice. I have 6 tanks and all but one is now acrylic. 

Something sparked my thought process about using declor with new amazons soil. Are we suggesting that we can declor in liu of the many water changes needed in the beginning of a new Amazonia soil tank.Will this cause a negative effect on the bacteria Diana


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## Karackle (Apr 14, 2009)

yikes! I am so sorry to hear about your tank disaster! I was thinking about replacing my old 30g (i've had it about 8 years and got it as a hand-me-down) with a new one, but now I'm thinking I might just get a new stand for it and keep it because it's obviously well made. That makes me nervous about getting any new glass tank! 

I am glad you were able to save the fish and get them a good new home and also fix the tank. Looking forward to seeing it up and running again!


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## jlfkona (Dec 15, 2013)

Pictures?


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## weatherwatcher (Jul 14, 2015)

It is now settled in well and it looks a bit like a jungle in there, the fish love it. The watter letuce did a wonderful job of getting the parameters down. All I do now is thin the plants when they get a bit to invasive.
This is the first time I have ever had any luck with growing plants, always did it in gravel, so this first go at using a soil base under gravel was a bit of a worry, would it work. The aqnswer is a resounding yes, I would recomend this system to anyone, no feeding other than a bit extra fish food, hardly any water changes, plus I now have cleer water with no algea, before with the oscars and severiums it was a nightmare.
Will try and get some good pictures this weekend, been taking them as the setup has gone along. So will try my best to get the posted by next week.
By the way can you just post the pictures on the forum or do you have to use another means of showing them on here.


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