# my flow seems bad, how should I set this up?



## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

my flow seems bad, how should I set this up? 
the canister on the right with the spray bar is missing the end cap on the bar and it's a eheim 2229 so if cycles through good flow and trickle flow

should I get another powerhead? Change the location of intakes and outtakes? User another spraybar?


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

looks like you've got the outputs pretty much facing each other? You'd do better with some sort of circular water movement. why 2 filters?


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

I got a eheim 2229 wetdry canister doing the bio, then I have a fluval 406 for mech and a little more bio. Plus I need the fluval for my inline heater. The eheim cycles on and off so I don't want to hook the heater to it.

Do you think I should run an airstone?


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## JeffyFunk (Apr 6, 2006)

Is there a reason the filter inlet & outlets are set up the way they are? Do you have any physical limitations to where you can put the inlets & outlets? We can give you some more suggestions once we know more about your actual situation...


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

how big is the tank that you feel you need more than just the Eheim? It cycles on & off? I think you need to simplify


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

The eheim 2229 is a wet dry canister, it fills then empties, ebb and flow. The fluval is constant flow so the inline heater is on that.

The tank is a 120 gal 4x2'

On metal stand, so I can move things


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

oooh, a big tank... well I don't have anything more to offer except I'd try to get a circular flow going.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

I could fashion a long return spray bar to go across the back of the tank or hook this extra eheim one that I have up onto the fluval.

maybe keep intakes in the corners and return across the top?










where would the powerheads go?


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## AKnickolai (Nov 30, 2007)

That last picture is better, I would move the canister intakes in from the edges of the tank ~6-8 inches. That will help with a dead spot in the center of the tank a bit. Flow is one of those things you really have to sit and watch. If the tank is new and the plants aren't filled in yet, you might be getting enough flow w/o the power heads. I like to burp a little air in my canister and watch where the bubbles go, it should be pretty even throughout the tank. Add powerheads as needed to direct flow to areas that seem stagnant. As others have said, when you add powerheads, try point them at least mostly inline with the flow that is already present in the tank. I've also found it useful to modify my intakes so that water comes in a two points, one mid level, and one near the gravel. Pre-filters on the intake cleaned once a week will save big on filter maintenance.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

Do you guys think half and half with the one side having constant flow and the other having ebb and flow would be better than doing a 4 foot spray bar across the back for the fluval and a 2 footer down one side for the eheim like a big L?


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

yeah much better! I'm not familiar with wet/drys so I can't comment on the ebb/flow part.


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## AKnickolai (Nov 30, 2007)

Yes, you might consider placing the powerhead(s) such that they help maintain the flow in the same direction as the wet-dry spray bar. That would help maintain constant flow in that half of the tank. That flow pattern is very similar to what I used in my tanks, but I only have one spray bar and return since it is a 40g. Works great until there is heavy plant growth, but then almost every return/suction arrangement needs help from a powerhead with a large plant volume.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

I'm starting to think maybe I should just get 2 duck bill return spouts for one corner and 2 return strainers for the other


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## AKnickolai (Nov 30, 2007)

Check out this thread for a good post explaining circular flow in the tank, its well written.

You can use the two spray bars and a powerhead or two to achieve the same thing in your tank. If you're using CO2, you might want to make sure you're introducing it into both canister outlets though. This will ensure that CO2 is evenly distributed in your tank. If you don't have CO2, no worries.

If you do have CO2 and don't want to inject it into both canister return lines, I'd probably try and set up circular flow the long way in the tank (just like the referenced thread) using a spray bar for the CO2 rich return, whatever you feel like for the wet dry, and using the powerheads to assist with the circular flow motion where required by your tank. So you end up with filter returns near the top and intakes near the bottom, but on the same side of the tank.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

I have a hard time seeing where the inputs and outputs are in this pic:









I have been considering ordering 2 of these and scraping the spray bar idea








I don't know what a lily pipe is, is that a European term? Never heard of it before just now, does this u tube pipe do the same thing?

I'm thinking this is the right size for my green Large 16/22mm 5/8" eheim tubbing?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A7ZQVA6/ref=s9_psimh_gw_p199_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1341H58J4R65G2G8TJDS&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1630072222&pf_rd_i=507846









or I could use the eheim spraybars I have









or even put everything on the sides


















what would be best?

I don't use co2 now but might someday


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## AKnickolai (Nov 30, 2007)

Lily pipes are the name for the clear glass inlet return pipes shown in the picture. The outlet is near the top of the water and the intake is on the same side as the outlet starting near the arrowhead below the outlet.

If you don't use CO2 right now, I would try the configuration you have shown in post#9 in this thread (with the intakes moved ~6" in from the end of the tank) or either of the last two sketches you've got in more most recent post.

I have those duck bull return U-tubes you show in the picture. They are cheap, strong, and will work with your tubing. I tend to use duck bills only in smaller tanks though, the wedge pattern of flow they create leaves too much still water in larger tanks IMO. Spray bars and powerheads work best for a nice laminar flow throughout the tank. If I ever really felt like I needed a more directed return line, I would build my own using line loc fittings. You don't need the pliers they sell to put them together, they make it easier, but not worth $30 if you ask me.

I guess if it was my tank, I'd try the flow patterns with what you've already got. No sense throwing money at one solution if one you've already got works well. Remember, you're looking for gentle current throughout the tank. Move things around, suck a little air in the filter and see where the bubbles go. Fish food, filter floss and other small light particles can be used to see flow too.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

thanks for the help Akickolai.
So I'm going to hold off on returning the pvc until I figure this out, I still might do this:


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

I sealed it off in the middle with a rubber washer.
I figure this gives me room to tuck the intakes behind the spraybar

I also figure 7/64th bit = 33 holes
or
1/8 bit = 20 holes

look sound?

of course I haven't glued, painted or drilled anything yet


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## Tattooedfool83 (Jul 7, 2013)

So the outflow DIY spray bar had both filters hooked up to the same bar? I have a DIY spray bar on my 75 set up running the length of the tank. It creates circular current front from to back but really it would be better moving from one side to another as my intake is on the side of the glass, I recently added a power head to move water the length of the tank. I personally think you would be better having an outflows on one side


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Think "simple":

1. One outflow & one inflow.
2. Both inflow and outflow are on the same side of the tank.
3. Make sure that the water coming from the outflow does not hit plants or decorations on its way to the opposite side of the tank.

You can use 2 inflow and outflows but place them all on the same side of the tank.

It is better to use an outflow that is just an open pipe. That provides more of a laminar (smooth) flow which works to engage the water from the entire tank in a circular motion. Spraybars, or these black outflows you show provide more of a turbulent flow (chaotic) which does not help to engage water from everywhere.

Also keep in mind that you can have a clean tank with any filter or spraybar or configuration of the inflow/outflow/flow pattern. It all depends on not overstocking the tank and being reasonable about how you fertilize.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

The spray bar I made is really 2 bars in one. I would prefer to circulate back to front because thats how my lids and stuff is set up, plus it's a large tank. I dont know, already made the spraybar might as well try it out. I guess I could try some other ways too like the open pipe output idea. How do I keep fish from swimming up the pipe?


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## AKnickolai (Nov 30, 2007)

Chicken wire or something over the PVC pipe opening? I never had a problem with fish swimming into the outlet, with the exception of a zebra pleco. I was missing for weeks when I found him in my homemade return....

I'd at least try the spray bars you made. Drill (~1/8"-1/4") holes and drill only in the middle 2/3 of the total length of the spray bar. This will help the flow to be laminar and directed strait out of the spray bar. Experiment a little with hole size, you may find you need larger holes on the portion of the spray bar that is closes to the filter outlet.


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## Aquaticz (May 22, 2009)

I am surprised Niko has not joined in. I have removed my spray bars in all my tanks 29, 40, 55, and I think a 70 gallon . All have EHEIM 2217. In take is just below output. Which is some to hit the front glass on an angle to allow water to along the front glass. I did not think it would work ell but I like it. The tanks are heavy planted, so at times I will stick a small nano korillia in behind some plants on the back right. When I plant I leave about 2 inches clear on the entire back panel. Hope this helps you

By the way Niko has a few filtration threads- all worth reading, I even toss the EHEIM filter material, except for the lowest sponge and fill the canister with lava rock as it has good surface area. I put in enough rock so I have plenty of space above, so I would say I fill it somewhere around 5/8 full. I also use a polishing cloth at the very top for the teSl fine particles
I will also say that there is no one right way... 
You gotta play and see. What works for your scape.

Well the dentist is ready and I am numb - oh joy what fun straight from the chair. Lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## AKnickolai (Nov 30, 2007)

I had an epiphany the other day when my spray bar fell off, leaving a 1/2" open ended pipe as my return. NIko's comments are spot on about laminar flow LEAVING the return pipe, I took his comment to mean that you don't want turbulent flow in the aquarium. A drilled spray bar might be turbulent leaving the outlets, but quickly turns laminar in the tank - this is still not ideal flow.

I have since modified by return piping to consist of two 1/2" openings with a valve that I used to balance the flow between the two outlets. This has greatly improved circulation in the tank, aided in getting rid of some staghorn algae, and my fish seem happier (subjective, but hey they swim about the tank a lot more). I've attached some pics to show what worked for me.


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## Tattooedfool83 (Jul 7, 2013)

So how's the flow?


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## AKnickolai (Nov 30, 2007)

I added another picture with some sketches to try and explain. Basically, I have the two filter outlets creating flow in the same direction, but different depths of the tank. If you look from the top down it creates a gentle counterclockwise current in the tank. The openings on the filter returns are large enough that the flow is gentle coming, not jet like.


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## Tattooedfool83 (Jul 7, 2013)

Looks good. Did much mulm kick up from the substrate when you set it up this way?


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

Looks good, my spraybar improved my flow but there are still lots of areas that are dead spots that fluffy algae collects in


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## AKnickolai (Nov 30, 2007)

Tattoo-

It didn't really kick up any mulm. The tank is only 3 months old, so there isn't even much built up in the tank yet. The lower outlet is very gentle, I use turface as as substrate and too much flow down there would uproot my plants and blow substrate everywhere (the smallest Hydor ~250gph did this when I tried it out). 

solchitlins-

For a non CO2 tank I would assume dead spots are still not good. If the inlet/return seems to be working on your tank I would experiment with placing some small powerheads in the tank to get rid of them. As long as it isn't too bad some shrimp and algae eaters will probably clean your tank up after its gone through the cycle process. Dosing Flourish Excel might help keep the algae at bay until you get things up and running. I know it will spot kill BBA no problem.


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