# ADA Aqua Soil and PH/KH reducing lifetime



## Mac120

hi,
I used in past Ada soil and was doing 80% waterchange week. 
The tap water had KH3 and not so much, but just after 8months the PH/KH reducing effect was "gone". PH was during the first time around 5.5 and KH0 - meanwhile it is PH6.8 and KH4, not a so great thing.

So my question is a little bit theoretical, but if for example making only 1water change / month - would doing so enhance the lifetime off such soils and their PH/KH reducing effects?

thx. peter


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## AaronT

I don't think the extra water changes was / is the problem. It's pretty normal for the buffering capacity of Aquasoil (or anything for that matter) to run out over time. 8 months is a long time.


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## Mac120

Hi Aaron,
why do you think water changes did not have any influence?
The soil takes away the KH from the tap water and so yes certainly after several months the soil will be "full" and has no buffering capacity left.
But if adding less Carbonates - why should doing so not increase the lifetime and overall buffering capactiy?

And if you say 8 month is long, what to do with acid substrate prefering plants?
Plants like Cuphea Analagoidea, Rotala Occultiflora ,Goias, some Eriocaulons, Toninas or whatever so - they will not really grow any good in any substrate with higher PH.
So did this mean after 8month, 1year or whatever so - it is time to remove the old Soil and to use new soil?


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## AaronT

The Rotala occultiflora you should send to me to keep for you. 

Let's say your starting KH is 5 and you add that water to new Aquasoil and your KH becomes 3 over a time period of one week and then you do a water change. If you didn't do the water change the KH will continue to drop down to zero. If you do the water change the KH goes back up to 5 briefly and then down to 3 again. Either way you are using up the buffering capacity of the soil. These aren't actual numbers, just a representation of why I don't think it matter how many water changes you do. Also, the ADA protocol recommends frequent water changes during the first 6-8 weeks.

If you are using it specifically for soft water species you might need to add new soil. 

I use RO water myself as it's more consistent. It's an expensive initial cost, but the new filter cartridges every 6 months aren't very expensive.


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## Mac120

Yes, I am using it for some species like the attached Cuphea. 
The plants were doing fine for around 1year, but I noticed as longer the plants were sitting in the Soil as more worst things were going on. Grow rate really dropped a lot. I used Ada Africana and know it didnt have much nutritions on board but a very low PH (~around PH4, I guess Amazonia has PH4,8 )
Well however, I will do what you recommend and insert new Soil.
I still was curious if there is a way to increase the Soil lifetime, but seems not.



> The Rotala occultiflora you should send to me to keep for you.


If you send me a Rotala Belem in return.


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## AaronT

You don't have to replace all of it at once. Maybe just take some out and put in some new soil.


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## totziens

You have not mentioned what type of ADA soil.

If it's Amazonia, there are 3 types of ADA Amazonia in the market as they're in the progress of improving it.

1. The oldest version of Amazonia - it will cause the water to be very murky. The nutrient will last longer than Amazonia 2. This is no longer in production several years ago. I don't think you could get this 8 months ago.

2. Amazonia 2 - To me this is the most crappy Amazonia soil. Murky water issue as been solved. The bad news is it disintegrates within less than 1 year (based on my observation it's about 6 months) and the nutrient is gone very fast. 

3. New Amazonia - This is released some time last year if I remember correctly. To me this is the perfect one. I have totally no complaint so far. In fact I got the first pack for my friend and I was so impressed with the result that I eventually bought a few packets for myself. It does not disintegrate like Amazonia 2 and no major murky water issue. In my country, the packaging labels it as "New Amazonia".

Some of us might be unlucky to get old stocks of Amazonia 2 a few months ago. I hope that's not your case.


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## Mac120

Like I told in the third post, I used Ada Africana.
The strange thing I noticed with this Soil after 1year the KH was climbing and climbing - at last it stops around KH5.
Thats somehow strange (if tap water still has KH3).
In my other tanks I don´t use Soil and the KH is since many years always stable @KH3.

I guess switiching over to New Amazonia like you recommend will be the best thing.
I will order this soil and replace the Ada Africana.


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## totziens

I personally think that ADA Africana and ADA Malaya are not worth buying. I have never used Africana personally but I haven't heard any good comment from people using it. 

I have tried ADA Malaya myself but I was not happy with it at all. I ended up with a lot of algae when the plants did not grow fast as in Amazonia soil. I was so annoyed about the algae issue and stagnant plants that replaced them after less than 6 months. The fast growing Potamogeton gayi that grew like mad in NPT extincted with ADA Malaya. Very disappointed indeed!

The new ADA Amazonia is good though. At least the plants grow fast and no massive algae attack beyond my control.


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## Mac120

> I have never used Africana personally but I haven't heard any good comment from people using it.
> I have tried ADA Malaya myself but I was not happy with it at all.


Malaya and Africana are both low on nutritions.
If using fresh Africana dosing a lot of some nutritions is requiered (I dosed 2ppm Po4 daily the first weeks) - i don´t know what the Africana soil makes with all the phosphate, but it sucks a lot for a while.

I will get my Amazonia tomorrow, I am excited to see how this now works.


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## Diana K

I think you are on the right track with fewer water changes using tap water. 
I think it would last even longer if you did water changes with RO, or at least with water that has the least amount of carbonates. 

Simply a matter of looking at how much carbonates you are adding to the tank over, say, a year. 

If you do weekly water changes and the new water has carbonates, then you are adding a lot of carbonates. 

If you do weekly water changes and the new water has zero or almost zero carbonates then you are adding very few carbonates. 

Nitrifying bacteria use the carbon from carbonates, so by adding RO or something close I think the nitrifying bacteria population will use all the carbonates you are adding, so the plants that need the water and substrate with virtually no carbonates would do better in this sort of set up. 

I have used Soil Master Select, another material that removes the carbonates from the water, and it keeps on doing this for a long time, even with water changes using 4-5*KH water. 

When I added coral sand to Turface (another material that removes carbonates from the water) the water did not lose the carbonates. The Turface seemed to get the carbonates from the coral sand. This is obviously not the solution where you are growing plants that demand carbonate-free set up. Worked well for a Rift Lake set up, though.


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## Mac120

hi Diana
thank you for the great infos. I also share this and think that it should make somehow a difference if adding "_as less carbonates as possible"_, but seems there are different opinions about it (like Aarons)
Well, however I had some old Africana left and decided to setup a small Nano tank just for testing porpuses. The tank will not get any waterchange (as so long all plants continue to grow).
Time will now show if doing so, keeps KH/PH for a longer period at low levels.

About Amazonia,
I removed the old Africana in the second tank and replaced it with New Amazonia. The plant seems to like it much and look fine. Still one thing I don´t like on New Amazonia: The substrate seems to be a little bit rough and did have "light weight" (compared to Africana).
I feel, it was much easier to put tiny plants (like HC, Hydropiper & so on) in Africana then in Amazonia


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## totziens

There is a "light weight" Amazonia. It's sold separately. It's powder form of ADA Amazonia. Usually these powder form soil are used on the top layer for cosmetic purpose. I personally don't like powder form because they will be sucked into the filter or blown away in the long run - money wastage.


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## Mac120

It is not any powder, it is still called "New Amazonia" and the stuff is pretty light weight.
1 Spoon Africana = 18gramm
1 Spoon Amazonia New = only 12gramm 
This is a big weight difference. 

Amazonia New is big size stuff and the pieces are imo just a liilte bit too "round".(look at my screenshoot with Amazonia New and Africana in compare) It may make some trouble to plant small things like tiny Eriocaulons, Utricularia, Hydropiper and so on. Such plants need to be sticked deep and covered - otherwise they will very soon "swimm around". 

So I looked at Ada website,
there is another and second Amazonia New listed that is called "Amazonia Multitype".
I guess "Amazonia Multitpye" has different pieces/sizes and would be better for planting, but it was not avaiblie here in Germany.


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## totziens

"Amazonia Multitype" is unavailable in my country too. We only have powder form and the normal one. If you want a mixture, you need to mix yourself.

I agree with you that we have to plant deeper with Amazonia soil. Some stem plants (I forgot which ones) have to be planted at least 1 inch underneath the soil - I got to know this during a demo by some guys from ADA distributor. Otherwise, you'll see them floating all over.


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## Mac120

Well, the thing is still that doing so will not work well for each plant.
Planting some Anubias, Buces 1 inch underneath the soil will sometimes just result in rot rhizome.
I am also a little bit scary planting some other plants () like bacopa japan that deep if it may obvisously result still in a rot stem. Tomorrow I will crush the soil a little bit, perhaps it makes planting a little bit easier. :-?


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## totziens

I agree with you that plants like Bacopa will rot if being planted too deep. I have faced that problem myself. I am so frustrated that I have decided to remove all the bacopa from my tank and plant them all into my emersed experimental tank using garden soil - the moving of Bacopa is still in progress.


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## William Beebe

AMAZONIA LIFE: How long should ADA New Amazonia function?
I set up a 55g. and a 125g. tank almost three years ago. The plants did fantastic for 2.5 years. I had to thin them out every few weeks. Even hard to raise plants did super. I used tap water, weekly 1/3 water changes, monthly canister filter cleaning, daily nutrition addition, weekly nutrition testing, CO2, and great lighting. 
Then weekly NO3 and PO4 testing showed that the nutrients were now staying at target levels WITHOUT HAVING TO AD MORE! Were the plants no longer using them? About this time delicate plants began to die and hardy plants quit growing.
I'm not at all happy with the prospects of having to spend another $400.00 for new substrate.
All suggestions welcome.
Thanks!


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## totziens

I'm not too sure about how long the new Amazonia will last too. I am curious about it as well.

I heard a rumour about Amazonia 2's nutrient could only last 1 year. It might be true. I was cursing and swearing when I heard that. I still have a tank running with an old Amazonia 2 soil which is probably 3 years old. It's not fair for me to comment on the plants condition in that tank because my fish destroyed them. 2 days ago I remove those fish. I will see whether the soil still works soon.


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## Mac120

> I am so frustrated that I have decided to remove all the bacopa from my tank and plant them all into my emersed experimental tank using garden soil - the moving of Bacopa is still in progress.


Yes, the smaller types like Bacopa japan do not build much roots and chances look not any good for such plants with this Soil.
Since one week I am daily hunting "swimming Bacopas" and planting them new.
Honestly, I am sick and tired about this.

So, is there from other companies another soil around with "better planting" abilities?
(should not be any "feather-light" stuff)


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## totziens

In my country, I am not aware of any soil better than ADA Amazonia. I have seen Seachem soil (forgot which type) used in a display tank at one of the LFS, it attracted a lot of algae after 1 week. It freaked out everyone. Even the LFS owner was disappointed because it's supposed to be a display tank to promote the product. Maybe you have other options in the U.S. I have seen other brands of aquasoil from Taiwan and Japan. Nobody I know have tried them. Once a friend tried a type of soil from Taiwan. Nothing grew well on it and the soil's diameter was too big making it looked very ugly.

Although my Bacopa did not go "swimming", they didn't grow too well. They just tried to reach for the light and the bottom part turned bald. So, I had long tall stem with leaves floating near the water surface. Very ugly indeed. I got fed up as well. They're now planted emersed.


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