# question about soft water



## hmt321 (Jul 1, 2006)

this will be a new tank set up

20 gal long
HOB filter (for water movement)
1.5" soil (from lowes)
1" small pea gravel

55 watt (6700k) light fixture

plant list

Nymphaea lotus
Vallisneria Corkscrew
Cryptocoryne Walkeri
Downoi (Pogostemon Helferi)

and wal mart bulbs (because i like them)

fish will be Blue spotted sunfish, and assorted top minnows 


The water in Mobile, AL is very soft, The KH and GH change to their end colors when i test after the first drop of test fluid.

should i add crushed coral to the soil, or should i add it in the filter?

should i add it at all?

any thing else i may have missed


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## Dustymac (Apr 26, 2008)

My water is very soft, too. I don't have any experience adding calcium to the soil and since I don't use filters anymore, can't help you there either. I dose my tanks every couple months to pick up the hardness and it's pretty easy. As long as you aren't changing water, only pruning your growing plants (and snails) will remove the calcium from the water. Here's a link to Professor Walstad's method:

Calcium Dosing Procedure

The plants on your list aren't anything I've ever tried specifically, but the Vals and Crypts I've grown have all seemed to do better in hard water.

Good luck!
Jim


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## hmt321 (Jul 1, 2006)

what would a target GH and kh be?

MgSO4 is epsom salt which is cheap

I will look at a pool supply place for CaCl2

I believe that i should have the tank set up for a few days before i test for gh and kh, I do not want to swing the gh and kh around with the fish in the tank.


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## hmt321 (Jul 1, 2006)

ok i screwed up reading the GH test,

I actually have a GH of 3-4

which i think could still be on the low end


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

hmt321 said:


> ok i screwed up reading the GH test,
> 
> I actually have a GH of 3-4
> 
> which i think could still be on the low end


If you have this much GH, you might be able to squeek by. If you add a bag of crushed coral to the filter, even better!


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## hmt321 (Jul 1, 2006)

I have plenty of crushed coral, what about KH, or will the crushed coral up that as it dissolves?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

hmt321 said:


> I have plenty of crushed coral, what about KH, or will the crushed coral up that as it dissolves?


Yes, but it may be very slow for your plants and fish. You could add a little baking soda, which is sodium bicarbonate. I would not add more than 1/8 teaspoon for your 20 gal. If my calculations are right, this should get your KH up immediately and provide plants with a little bicarbonate.

However, if my calculations are wrong, this small amount won't hurt (it will not add that much sodium to the water and shouldn't increase pH that much).

I would consider this addition optional as the crushed coral may be able to do the job.


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

I use eggshells and make sure I overfeed (to get the trace minerals into the system)


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

I use baking soda for KH at the rate of 1 teaspoon per 30 gallons (Standard 29 gallon tank, actually, so perhaps closer to 25+ gallons). This raises the KH by about 2 degrees. In the tank that needed this the KH was 0 degrees and the pH was at the bottom of the test, 6.0. With 1 teaspoon of baking soda the pH came up to 6.2
It seems to dissolve fast, but not instantly. For the small amount of change I was doing, I just added it right to the tank. Fish were fine with that. 

For GH I use Seachem Equilibrium or Barr's GH booster. More of an assortment of minerals. I have never actually measured how much it takes to create what sort of change, though. These dissolve slowly. When I do a water change on a tank that needs higher GH I start a couple of hours ahead of time to get the water prepared. (This is a Lake Tanganyikan tank, significant difference in tap water)

Again, for the small amount of change you are looking for you might just shake up one of these in a small jar and pour it in. 

Good idea to practice before adding the fish! You can also test some recipes in a bucket, and test over a day or a week to see how stable it is and how long it takes certain materials to dissolve.


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## colinsk (Dec 29, 2008)

It sounds like you have Hetch Hetchy water. It is very soft indeed. I wish I had it at my brewery. It also tastes the best in the Bay Area.


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## davemill (May 3, 2004)

hmt321 said:


> ok i screwed up reading the GH test,
> I actually have a GH of 3-4
> which i think could still be on the low end


I've kept the GH and KH in my plant tank at 3 for seven years now. It's plenty for most crypts and swords. My Nymphaea lotus spawns a couple of daughter plants every month. But vals and sags have never done well in this tank.


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## hmt321 (Jul 1, 2006)

I got the tank set up yesterday

I added some crushed coral to the filter

24hours in here are test results,

KH = 2
GH = 3-4 (i have a hard time reading this test)

PH = 7.6
Nitrate = 0.0

I expect the results to change


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

hmt321 said:


> this will be a new tank set up
> 55 watt (6700k) light fixture
> wall mart bulbs
> plant list


Are those T8 bulbs, 30 inch long? I haven't seen them.


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

Diana K said:


> I use baking soda for KH at the rate of 1 teaspoon per 30 gallons (Standard 29 gallon tank, actually, so perhaps closer to 25+ gallons). This raises the KH by about 2 degrees. e.


I think your calcalation is off a bit for at Rex Griggs read:
1tsp of baking soda 3 gallons	raises Kh 4 degrees(68ppm).

Can anyone specify which is correct?


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

hmt321 said:


> I got the tank set up yesterday
> 
> I added some crushed coral to the filter
> 
> ...


Looks like you might need some KNO3, potassium nitrate. I have soft water, KH and Gh both 0, and it wasn't until I added KNO3 tank I got the ecosystem balanced. Being in a rush I got spectricide stump remover, since someone else used it for KNO3. It has to be diluted as explained at Rex Griggs Also you increase the nitrates slowly or fish die.


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## hmt321 (Jul 1, 2006)

i'm sorry the "wal mart bulbs" are not light bulbs but the dried plant bulbs that they sell in the live fish section.

I actually have some KNO3, what ppm should i shoot for? about 10 ppm?


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

hmt321 said:


> i'm sorry the "wal mart bulbs" are not light bulbs but the dried plant bulbs that they sell in the live fish section.
> 
> I actually have some KNO3, what ppm should i shoot for? about 10 ppm?


Info I have from Rex Griggs site says 10ppm is good. Just adjust it up slowly or the fish will die. You may never get that reading if you have plants that are nitrate hogs.

What brand of light do you have? Where did you get your light fixture?


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## hmt321 (Jul 1, 2006)

here is the link

http://www.ahsupply.com/36-55w.htm

I have had the light fixture about 3 years or so


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

hmt, do you have fish in this tank, yet? 

I use potassium nitrate to keep the nitrates between 5-10 ppm, but I test before adding. Some tanks need it, some do not. 
With as much light as you have I would think that you probably will need to supplement with nitrogen. A thriving plant community with that much light is likely able to remove all the nitrogen produced by the fish and other similar sources. I found that potassium and iron were the first things my plants needed as I increased the light. However, I did not have any soil in the tanks that might have supplied any fertilizer, or micro nutrients. 
If you do not have fish in there, and want to get the plants going, then add fertilizer. (or fish food, it decomposes into fertilizer)

Dawn:
The baking soda situation was tested using Aqaurium Pharmaceutical's test tube and liquid reagents once in a while, but more often with the Jungle 5-way Dip Stick test. It went on for about 6 months. 
1 teaspoon of baking soda added to a 29 gallon tank changed the readings:
Before: KH 0 degrees. pH bottom of the test (6.0)
After: KH 2 degrees. pH 6.2

1 German degree of hardness = 17.9 ppm.
4 GDH = 71.6 ppm


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

hmt321 said:


> this will be a new tank set up
> 
> 20 gal long
> HOB filter (for water movement)
> ...


I am surprised that the pea gravel kept the soil down. It didn't work for me.

Well 55 watts over a 29 gal is 2.75wpg but that rule is based on T12 bulbs. Since you got the retro kit from ah supplies your bulbs or bulb is probably T5 which gives out almost double the light, from what I have read. Thus you are probably need some ferts as Diane K said.


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## hmt321 (Jul 1, 2006)

I added fish today,

i was hopeing to get by w/o fertz but i have them so i will start monday.


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## hmt321 (Jul 1, 2006)

water test today

ph = 7.6
kh = 4
gh = 4-5 (I am having trouble reading this test, change is not drastic enough for me to be 100% sure)
nitrate = 5 maybe

I will adjust it up to about 10 over several hours today

I am noticing new growth with the crypts, and the bulbs have really taken off

the vals are looking kind of sorry, (plant delivery took 6 days, they did not look great to being with)

my 2 previous val planting experences were that the existing blades died off quickly then came back from the roots rapidly.

anyone else had this experience?

The fish seem happy, 6 Bluespotted sunfish (_Enneacanthus gloriosus_)
and 3 very small eastern star head top minnows

water is also loosing its haze

no algae so far !!


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

hmt321 said:


> nitrate = 5 maybe
> I will adjust it up to about 10 over several hours today


You might want to do that a little bit slower for read:
If your KNO3 level is zero, and you add enough in one dose to raise it to 10ppm, you will kill fish.


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## hmt321 (Jul 1, 2006)

I may wait another week to start adding the KNO3, I just added the fish saturday, i want to see if they start to make enough nitrate.


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## kid creole (Mar 5, 2009)

dawntwister said:


> I think your calcalation is off a bit for at Rex Griggs read:
> 1tsp of baking soda 3 gallons	raises Kh 4 degrees(68ppm).
> 
> Can anyone specify which is correct?


In my experience, 1 tsp for 30 gallons to get 2° KH sounds about right, and this calculator backs it up.

http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/C...Soda+(Teaspoons)=2.31&SKH=&EKH=&pHChange=0.00

I don't know what backs up the calculator.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

hmt321 said:


> I may wait another week to start adding the KNO3, I just added the fish saturday, i want to see if they start to make enough nitrate.


Good idea. For the record, fish produce ammonia, not nitrate. And plants greatly prefer ammonia, not nitrate (see my book for the experimental evidence).

I would not add any fertilizer unless you see clear evidence that your plants are not growing.

You have soil, moderately hardwater, and fishfood. There's no reason to add KNO3.


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