# how much should i dose a 5 g?



## flagerr (Aug 13, 2005)

HI im new here, can anyone help me with dosing?
aqua (35*26*20)
how much KNO3, K2SO4 should i dose for a 5 gal with moss and ferns too boost their growth. 
lighting 15 w CF
temp 24 c
ph, kh, gh, no3, po4 unknown (don't have any test kit)
CO2 diy yeast 

i really want to try dosing EI

can somebody help me


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Welcome to APC  

Before you start dosing ferts you need to get test kits. You need to know the currant water parameters to know what and how much you need to start with. It is also wise to know your PH/KH before injecting C02. So go out and buy test kits for PH, KH, N03, P04. These are invaluable in a planted tank and will be used a lot in the beginning.


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## flagerr (Aug 13, 2005)

do these test kit necesarry, is there any other way doing dosing thing without test kit? maybe i'll get the ph and kh test, dunno about the NO3/PO3 will it be enough?

best regard


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

A 5 gal tank is might small.
I can eyeball it, but you may want to make liquid solutions instead and dose milliliters instead of teaspoons.
See

http://users.ev1.net/~spituch/Chemicals/chemicals.html#Working Solutions

KNO3
KH2PO4
Trace
GH if the tap is low(adding a little just in case will do no harm, I tend to use SeaChem Equlibrium, it's heavy in K2SO4, Ca, Mg, Fe, Mn)-this can be added weekly after the water change.

CO2, is the biggest issue, but since it's so small, try Excel etc.

There is a simple way around the liquid solutions and dose dry, but it's less accurate. Many folks do not have an accurate scale, so they will have a rough time making a stock solution.

Again, there is a way around that.

We weighed a 1/4 teaspoon's volume of various nutrients and took the average of 20 samples and this weight is pretty consistent(about +,- for 1-2ppm of KNO3, K2SO4, KH2PO4 etc). You can eyeball things pretty accurately, subdivide and then dose from there or make a stock solution without a scale.

You can take a 1/4 teaspoon of KNO3, divide this by 4, this will give you the same ratio, 1/16th of teaspoon. You can eyeball 4 equal parts? Do the same for the SeaChem EQ (but dose only once after a water change)

Do the same for the KH2PO4, now take that amount and divide by 4 once more, so 1/16th divided into 4 equal parts.

Those are your dosages in dry weights done 2x a week with excel, 3x a week with CO2.

You can do large 75% water changes easily on such a small tank also.

Traces: using Flourish or TMG: add 1 ml 3-4x a week.

Seems like a lot, but is easy.

I use to dose liquids and do for specific issues, but since plants are generalist in terms of their nutrient needs, the teaspoon works easier and folks do not need a scale to weigh things etc and it's an added step many seem 
unwilling to do.

Most fertilizer calculators are based on these average weights for the teaspoon method and for making stock solutions of NO3, K+, PO4, traces etc.

Given the small tank size, a 50% vs a 75% water change takes little extra effort, larger water changes will keep the excess from building up allowing you more error on the higher dosing end.

Regards, 
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

flagerr said:


> do these test kit necesarry, is there any other way doing dosing thing without test kit? maybe i'll get the ph and kh test, dunno about the NO3/PO3 will it be enough?
> 
> best regard


Yes, as I said before these test kits are invaluable in a planted tank. There is also less room for error in a smaller tank, keeping an eye on the water parameters is crucial. If you start having algae blooms, plant deficiency's, fish start acting sick or dieing you will need to know what your water parameters are in order to correct the problem. Be prepared in the beginning it will save you money and heartache in the end.


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## flagerr (Aug 13, 2005)

> We weighed a 1/4 teaspoon's volume of various nutrients and took the average of 20 samples and this weight is pretty consistent(about +,- for 1-2ppm of KNO3, K2SO4, KH2PO4 etc). You can eyeball things pretty accurately, subdivide and then dose from there or make a stock solution without a scale.
> 
> You can take a 1/4 teaspoon of KNO3, divide this by 4, this will give you the same ratio, 1/16th of teaspoon. You can eyeball 4 equal parts? Do the same for the SeaChem EQ (but dose only once after a water change)
> 
> ...


you mean that dosage for 5 gal in dry weights? sound too much for me, won't it be a problem to dose that much? or maybe i'm wrong 

can we determine our CO2 level with bubble counter, assuming the CO2 reactor did 100% dissolving it into water?


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

C02 level is determined by your KH/PH using this calculator.


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

flagerr said:


> you mean that dosage for 5 gal in dry weights? sound too much for me, won't it be a problem to dose that much? or maybe i'm wrong
> 
> 
> > No, 1/4 teaspoon is simply a starting point, *you subdivide* that into 4 equal parts!
> ...


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## flagerr (Aug 13, 2005)

ok thx alot tom, i'll try to get the PH and KH test kit soon, will tetra good enough?


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

trenac said:


> Yes, as I said before these test kits are invaluable in a planted tank.


How come folks have not used them for nearly a decade(+ other's much longer, never) and have nice healthy growth and tanks that win competitions as well and have consistently nice tanks?

They don't hurt generally.......unless you make changes based on the test kits that lead to plant health issues(I've seen that occur 1001 times), this is very often the case, test kits are a two edge sword, not something "invaluable" when used incorrectly, not calibrated, make poor assumptions about them, cheap junk, or are inaccurate.



> There is also less room for error in a smaller tank, keeping an eye on the water parameters is crucial. If you start having algae blooms, plant deficiency's, fish start acting sick or dieing you will need to know what your water parameters are in order to correct the problem. Be prepared in the beginning it will save you money and heartache in the end.


No, this is a lot to ask for a small little 5 gal tank. It is much more practcial to do a water change and dose the nutrients back and re set the tank.

Smaller tanks are easy to change out more % of the water and it takes a small bucket and about 5 minutes to do an 80% water change a week(simply dip the bucket into the tank directly for adding/removing water).

The entire volume of the tank water is basically a reference solution each week and a little fert is added 1-2x more till you get to the end of the week and repeat.

Being consistent is more important than testing the tank here and why spend all the $, time, effort and analysis for a 5 gal tank when water changes are so easy?

Once they know what to dose, the rest is simple. 
If things go bad, they know why, they have not been keeping up on things.

Same for myself.
I have 2-5 gal tanks and many small tanks that take just a few minutes to do the entire set with a small bucket.

But test for the CO2 and test not just once but a few times with the lights on and see where the CO2 level goes. If you are unable to do that, then you can dose Excel instead.

CO2 is the biggest testing issue, not the testing the ferts, those are easy to address here in this context. As they get more into it, they can buy test kits and play around, but starting off with all this stuff is confusing for folks.

Just add 3-4 things, do a water change each week. 
If they have an issue, they can come here etc and we will help them to tweak things better.

95% of the time with issues(CO2 etc), it is not fertilizer dosing related.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Plantbrain... That is your opinion, I have my own. I not saying your wrong, neither I'm I. There is more than one way to look at and to do things.


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## flagerr (Aug 13, 2005)

ic so the things that really matter is CO2 level so the most important test kit i should have is PH and KH right?

thx.


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## czado (May 26, 2005)

15W over 5g isn't a lot of light. (I have an 8g.) If the moss and ferns are "java" sp., simply adding CO2 may be enough to keep algae away. Tom is recommending quite a lot of ferts, and while he much more experienced than I, I think if you halved his doses you'll more than beat your tank's nutrient uptake. As an alternative to EI, you could just observe the plants and dose if they show deficiency. If you get some algae, you could also move the light back, as neither java fern or moss are demanding of light. 

If your tap has some other buffer (PO4, for example), you can't derive CO2 from KH and pH, but you can still use pH drop as an indicator of CO2 levels. Simply FYI.


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## alexperez (Oct 8, 2004)

I have a 6 Gallon with 14W AH kit and use only Excel 2-3 times a week.
I dose half of what Tom recommends but do it only once a week and have no algae issues (might be the cherry shrimp eat the algae it faster that it can grow).
Water changes are done about every 2 weeks. Plants are Java Ferns, moss, 1 Klein Barr sword, 2 crypts (C. wendtii),2 A. Reineckii.


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## flagerr (Aug 13, 2005)

wow thx ales that things what i like to hear,

but how bout there's no shrimp, no SAE fish, will there be algae grow?

my 5 gal seems ok for 1 week, hope there no algae problem, i'm dosing these EI thing to boost the moss and java fern growth. i just want to make sure that my 5 gal free of algae


> I dose half of what Tom recommends but do it only once a week


why don't yo dose fully what Tom's recommend? 
maybe you don't want the moss grow too fast or any other reason?

thx


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## alexperez (Oct 8, 2004)

The reason that I only dose half is that I'm worried that the full amount might hurt the shrimp. And since this is the only place the shrimp live I would hate to kill them all. 
I haven't tested the water in this tank since I set it up. At first I did have a bit of GSA on the glass, but I wasn't adding any PO4 since my tap water tested at .2ppm, so I thought it would be OK with that. when I started adding the PO4 the GS went away in about a month. I feed the shrimps once maybe twice a week and then only very little. For my water changes I change about 20% of the water. 

If I had CO2 going into that Tank (I will soon) I would dose what Tom recommends.

You got me curious as to what my levels are so I will test it tonight just to see what I get.
----
Tested the water last night and got the following:
NO3 - 13.2ppm (Lamotte)
PO4 - about 2.0-3.0ppm (Red Sea and Seachem)
KH - 1.8 (Tap water measures 3, Lamotte) 
GH - 13 (Lamotte)
Ph - 6.9 (SM 122)


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