# What's Wrong with this Apisto???



## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

One my smaller Apistogramma macmasteri's is at the top of the tank and looks aweful. The fish looks fine if it were just at the top to grap a bite of blood worms or brine shrimp, but it's just there. It's not breathing much faster than normal, but a little bit faster, and it looks bloated big time, with fins out and scales look a little flexed as if it's flashing for a battle. I have 9 other macmasteri's in this tank and they all look fine, as do the Trig.espei's, zebra danio's, cory cat's...this is a 125 gallon NPT (El Natural). I don't test water parameters, but as I mentioned ALL of the fish except this one look normal. Here are the pics:


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## Bunnie1978 (Sep 29, 2009)

White stringy poop?


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

> White stringy poop?


 by Bunnie1978

Not at the moment. What would that mean?
For now I've put the little fella in one of those floating nursery boxes and it has righted itself (looks more normal) but still is bloated. I also wonder if maybe it got some sand caught in its digestive tract. They pick in the sand a lot for micro-critters. Also, the dominant males have been pushing the smaller one around lately (not sure yet which of the smaller ones are young males or females with one exception on the males and one known female that had traded her yellow "dress" for a more drab garb).


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## Bunnie1978 (Sep 29, 2009)

From what I've heard, it sounds like bloat. I don't know if Apistos get that, but other cichlids do. But then, it could just be a behavioral thing, to avoid aggression too. I don't have any experience with bloat myself. But the only time I've ever had a fish hang out at the surface like that it died.  
I hope you do not have that happen!!!
I would do a little research on bloat, and see if that seems like a possible cause.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Looks like dropsy.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

It's not bloat as such but is a symptom that may be related that apistos often get. It is either internal parasites or bacterial infection and once they get it there's often no chance. Best results I've ever had was to isolate the fish in a hospital tank and add Melafix. But the fish succumbed after seeming to heal.

Good luck.


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## geeks_15 (Dec 9, 2006)

You should post your question on www.apistogramma.com to get some more opinions.

Not that I disagree with posts here, but it could be educational.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Thanks for the help and responses. I'll also check out the apistogramma.com forums that geeks_15 mentioned.

As for the fish, Melinda just informed me that it is no longer a member of the Manthei Household, so hopefully I can find enough information to keep it from happening again.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

I agree with Newt. Looks like Dropsy. The bloating ( "dropsy" actually referes to the filling of the body with a liquid) is from a liquid filling the body, similar to people with weak livers. You may also see pale gills, red splotches on the skin, recessed or bulging eyes, inflamed anus or fin damage. 

It's an extremely infectious disease (maybe bacterial or cancerous tumors) that attacks the liver heavily, among other parts of organs. It also causes circulation problems. There is no true treatment for Dropsy, except heavy antibiotics (which may not work), only prevention (healthy tank conditions and feeding foods that do not stress the liver). It can be brought on by other illness weakening the fish's body.

Since it is uncertain if this is truely Dropsy that you fish has, perform an autopsy when the fish dies. A couple books I have recommend taking the fish to a vet for a post-mortem, but since you already have the tools, you can do it yourself. Look for a liver that is discolored (greenish, yellow, rusty, or blue in tone).

-Dave


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Oops, I just read where it had already died.

So prevention is the same as for most other disease. Keep the water clean and go easy on foods that may stress the liver (not sure what those would be, but bloodworms are said to stress the stomach if fed too regularly, like as the main food source rather than a weekly treat).


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## Texex94 (Jul 29, 2004)

One of the telltale signs of dropsy is raised scales - basically a pinecone effect. That's a dead giveaway along with the bloated appearance.

One question, do you feed bloodworms? If you do, feed it sparingly and chop up the worms before feeding. Apistos are notorious for getting bloat from eating whole bloodworms. I know that this problem is attributed to African cichlids, but I've had the same thing happen in some of my apistos in the past. Once I quit with the whole bloodworms, it went away.


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## Bunnie1978 (Sep 29, 2009)

This is good information. I'm have some apistos that I feed freeze dried bloodworms to.... guess that's not a good idea!


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

A varied diet is the best way to go. A good quality flake like Ocean Nutrition Community Formula, frzn brine shrimp, freeze dried bloodworms, Cyclopeeze, etc.
I like Hikari frozen and freeze dried foods the best/quality.
I have found that live foods typically carry more parisites and other diseases.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Seems everyone here and at apistogramma.com are in agreement on the bloodworms, and it just so happens that I had been feeding them bloodworms as about 35% of their diet.

Basically, it was about 35 bloodworms, 35 brine shrimp, 25 flakes, and 5 whatever else (shrimp pellets, cichlid pellets, you get the idea).

So I am cutting back on the bloodworms and increasing the flakes, as they really like them (more than the bloodworms). An odd note, on the RARE occasion that I drop an algae wafer in there they act like they are starving bristlenose plecos. Maybe I need to feed these more often...

Speaking of bristlenose plecos, my male has given me about all the trouble I can deal with. Those poor Apistos don't stand a chance of gaurding a nest against him.


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## Bunnie1978 (Sep 29, 2009)

You can send him to me!!  I have two fat females in need of some attention!


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

> You can send him to me!! I have two fat females in need of some attention!


Hah!!! I don't trust my shipping capabilities on live fish, so that's out of the picture; but if you're ever in the Nacogdoches area you can have him. I'll swap you for a dozen algae wafers!!!


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## Bunnie1978 (Sep 29, 2009)

Nacogdoches? The WHAT?? Haha. What a great name for a city!


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

It's supposedly the oldest town in Texas, but about 20 other towns in East Texas will argue the same thing, so take that for what's it worth.

No more issues with the apistos, though I am noticing a film developing on the water surface. I guess I had gotten carried away in feeding them the frozen foods that are high in fats et cetera. Oh well, yet another lesson learned...


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## Bunnie1978 (Sep 29, 2009)

You're a better person for it! In fact, so am I, since I learned something new as well!

Painful lessons sometimes though.


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