# Syngonathus stream



## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Hello all!

I have been out of aquascaping loop for a while, concentrating mainly on learning how to grow different varieties of Syngonathus and Toninas in a farm tank over the winter and spring as shown in this thread http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/68603-my-syngonathus-farm-tank.html.

Now the challenge was to incorporate these unusual and beautiful plants into what can be mistaken for an aquascape! Though I liked the tonina tanks that I saw on-line, I did not really want that style in my setup. I wanted a nature aquarium style tank incorporating both driftwood and rocks in my 60-P.

To simplify the scape, I made the hard decision of selling/letting some plants go that were growing in my farm tank. After all space and especially free time is limited. I ended up keeping the Syngonathus "maderia"; "Rio *****"; and "uuapes". The Belem was let go as it did not really suite the look of the tank. I was not sure where to put the Toninas. First they were in the back but I did not like them there. I believe I have at least 2 maybe 3 varieties and wanted to show them off some more. After a couple of redo's I finally settled on what I though was a decent location.

This scape is now 2 months old. Otocinculus were the first residents for a month, I just added some rummy nose tetras and cardinals recently.

Frontal view. In addition to the above plants, there is Bacopa sp. "Japan", Bylxa japonica and Crypt wenditii "red". The few uuapes stems are on the left underneath the diffuser.










Top view










Close up of different varieties of Tonina fluviatis. Can you believe this started off with ~3 stems bought from forum member? There is regular, Lotus blossom and maybe one other variety I can't recall the name.










For this tank, I decided to use aquasoil Africana as the substrate rather than Amazonia. The selection was based mainly on the color of the substrate as I wanted something lighter colored. You will also notice that I have no foreground per se. This was an artistic decision. :doubt: Well ok, I wanted HC but for the life of me I cannot get it to grow in this tank! I made three attempts all ended in failure. I have grown HC with the same setup/lighting everything VERY well before with Amazonia. Perhaps its the substrate? At any rate, the bare foreground kinda grew on me :mullet: so I left it as - the Toninas also stand out better.

Thanks for looking!


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Fabulous looking scape, Bunbuku!! Your plants look amazing, and the layout is very appealing to the eyes. 
Too bad the HC wouldn't grow. Is it possible that this substrate is more acidic or has more ammonia release than Amazonia? That seems very strange. At any rate, I like the bare foreground. You are right that it makes the Toninas stand out much better.

-Dave


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## brighty K (Oct 1, 2008)

I like it.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Thank for the comps guys! 

Dave I tried the planting HC first during the NH3 release cycle and twice after the tank has fully cycled. No go either way. The HC plugs just turn gray and melt away. From what the 2009 ADA catalog says I understand that Africana has less organics and releases less NH3 than Amazonia. Its also supposedly more acidic than Amazonia also. Maybe that's it. Lighting is a 150 watt Aquamedic MH, 7 hrs/day, definitely enough light there!


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## Aquaticz (May 22, 2009)

Great tank I like your design. I like the balance you have acheived. I have a question for you. Will your substrate require replcement in a year or less? Is it necessary to grow Tonina fluviatis.


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

Beautiful! Great plants and I think you've really advanced your idea in limiting species. I still think it a "Tonina tank" but that's only a compliment to the dedication to the species.

Only a thought: Crypt wendtii 'Red' is a very pretty plent but almost not cool enough. Have you seen 'Mi Oya'? It has this rad tiger print to the leaves. Mine is shaded and I cannot do justice in pics, but it's one folks who see the tank always like, and I think you will, too.

It's also easy to imagine the little green fireworks effect of Fissidens sp in that shade, especially framed with that lighter green fireworks effect from Synogonathus sp


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## HoustonFishFanatic (Feb 26, 2007)

Bunbuku,the tank represents excellent use of some unusual plants.It will look even better as it matures.Keep us posted.
Cheers
Bhushan


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## bigstick120 (Mar 8, 2005)

Looks nice! I dont know how I feel about the open foreground. Im thinking some dwarf hairgrass would look really nice, or the Japan version if you can find some.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Thank you for the encouraging comments!

Aquaticz - Aquasoil is not absolutely necessary to grow these kinds of plants. My farm tank had only Seachem Fluorite Black for a good 10 months and they grew just fine with regular water column fertilization. I do feel the growth rate is faster in Aquasoil. More than the substrate, a more important parameter is really soft water, high light and CO2 supplementation. I use RO-DI water which I reconstitute with Seachem Equilibrium to a measured GH 2-3 (the KH is 0). Oh, whether or not I totally replace the Aquasoil will depend on how fast, or _if_ it disintegrates.

Wet - is checked the Plantfinder and see what you mean. The Mi Oya is a really striking crypt! Sadly, I looked a several online stores here and they don't seem to stock it. I will have to wait for a forum member to post some for sale!:mrgreen:

bigstick120 - I debated using some dwarf hair grass but shudder at the work required to keep that beast under control. I have not given up the idea of a foreground - maybe some UG might work. What does the Japan version look like? Does it grow shorter that regular type?


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## HoustonFishFanatic (Feb 26, 2007)

B, I can check if I have an extra 'mi oya' or ' Florida sunset' but you will have to wait till next week as all my crypts are in Beaumont with a friend.
Bhushan


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

HoustonFishFanatic said:


> B, I can check if I have an extra 'mi oya' or ' Florida sunset' but you will have to wait till next week as all my crypts are in Beaumont with a friend.
> Bhushan


HFF, that would be way too excellent, my man!:bounce:
Crypt sitting! Now that's hard core!:supz:


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## bigstick120 (Mar 8, 2005)

The Japan hairgrass curls down, and seems to be a bit slower growing. Hair grass is no more of a beast then those stems!


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

That's a very nice layout, Bunbuku. I really like the top view shot since it shows the interaction between the plants and the hardscape better. Those midgrounds cascading through are very effective. The focal area where the wood/rock/crypt met for me doesn't really work (in pic anway) since there is very little constrast and it's hard to ascertain what's going on there. Might be cleaner looking to remove the rock completely and go with some more wood and let the plants do their work IMO. Looks like the foreground can work as is or with sand or lawn.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Thanks for the suggestions house. You and wet had the same idea. I agree that the earth tones in the middle do lack contrast. I was hoping that the crypt would get redder than it did - oh well. I think the suggestion of using Mi Oya or Florida Sunset to brighten up the middle a bit is a good one :hungry:! 

I happen to like those rock especially since I had to hand carry them from Asia. LOL! 

BTW, the Syngonathus are a few inches from the surface already. Definitely growing faster in Africana than Flourite. Looks like I got some of plant growth mojo going right now!


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## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

Bunbuku

Love the tank, where did you get the rockwork?


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

kwc1974 said:


> Bunbuku
> 
> Love the tank, where did you get the rockwork?


Picked it up at an aquarium shop at the Goldfish Market in HK while visiting last yr.


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## xJaypex (Jul 22, 2009)

Loving this tank


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

I think it's one of the best uses of Syngonathus I've seen! Most of the time they just don't fit well into a scape. I think the suggested contrast and foreground will really look good. Can't wait to see it.


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## arowanaman (Jun 14, 2006)

This tank looks incredible very well done I like the empty front look really refreshing. Just FYI HC likes a harder water so if you are using soft water that is probably why the HC dies on you.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Thanks TexGal and arowanaman! I had not thought of that the water hardness at all :loco:. You are probably right the major difference with my previous tanks is that this one by necessity was uses really soft water.


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## khanzer22 (Nov 30, 2009)

This is the 5th time today I'm looking into this thread, I'm digging your scape man! Hope I could do the a nice scape like you do with the soft water plants I currently have (and planning to have) in my 37gal tank... Cheers!


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

khanzer22 said:


> This is the 5th time today I'm looking into this thread, I'm digging your scape man! Hope I could do the a nice scape like you do with the soft water plants I currently have (and planning to have) in my 37gal tank... Cheers!


Thanks man! A 37 gallon tank would be amazing I am sure.  You'll need to fill up that foreground with some little Erios. Too bad E. cinerum seems to be hard to come by lately


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## fishlover (Jan 2, 2007)

This must be the best syngonanthus-tonina tank I've seen yet as far as aquascaping goes!
Once you give it a foreground it'll be amazing


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

fishlover said:


> This must be the best syngonanthus-tonina tank I've seen yet as far as aquascaping goes!
> Once you give it a foreground it'll be amazing


Thanks! I am waiting for some foreground plants thanks to a trade in this forum!


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Time for a 3 month update. Since the initial post, I have had to top and replant the Syngonathus 2 every weeks. Overall it feels like they're are growing in Aquasoil Africana about twice as fast as in Flourite Black. The pictures are 1 day after replanting, thinning and trimming. That is why the bush of Bacopa Japan looks whacked. Bylxa was partially obstructing the intake so it had to be really thinned out. I am beginning to wonder though if I should move the intake pipe in front of the outflow lily pipe, as the foreground is less densely planted than the back.

There are a few additions thanks to a dry goods trade with a forum member. Staurogyne "tropica", Ludwiga inclinata "Panatal" and Erio blood uke:. This will be my 3rd attempt at growing this Erio. They did not fare well the last couple of attempts in my farm tank or my mini-M. I planned on using the Staurogyne as foreground but I think my tank is too small for it. I'll see how it develops as it adjusts to the current water conditions.

I promise there are about 12 cardinals and rummy nose in the tank. They just like to hide when the lights come on.eep: 









This shows a shot little blush of orange from the Pantanal. I hope to have it turn as colorful as the one in the Plantfinder so as to add some contrast near the focal point.


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## Coralite (Nov 29, 2008)

What's up BuKu? the tank is looking pretty nice, very healthy for sure. Don't give up on the Pantanal, it's a difficult plant to _keep_ looking good, but when it's in good shape it's amazing. We need to get you some narrow leaf tonina and a CO2 reactor solution so you can get the diffuser out of the tank. Seeing the diffuser is killin me.

It's great to see tonina style getting pimped out with the Bunbuku touch.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

^^Meet the reason why I have star plant tank! 

Thanks Coralite!  I am glad you like it You know I think there are actually 2 stems of the narrow leaf toninas in there. I just cut trimmed them short this time. Due to lack to time, I let all the Toninas get too tall (~8") and they started turning brown from the bottom up. Lost half doz stems that way :mmph:. I had also let the taller Syngonathus in the back overgrow and shaded the uuapes - they did not like either.

The Pantanal is just about a week in my tank - hope it gets red. Its sitting directly under the MH pendant. 

Yeah, used a reactor in the farm tank but I had a lot more room under the shelf for plumbing because the stand was open. This stand is in a high traffic area so all the equipment has to be hidden. With an Eheim Ecco 2236, a 2.5 lb tank and regulator under there is not much extra room for a reactor, so out came the diffuser.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

So loving your tank!! Your pantanal is gonna look terrific there. I think if you put a red plant on the left side in the foreground, making an outcrop from the rock it will balance out the pantanal in the back. You don't want the pantanal to look like a bull's eye in the back. I think Rotala Mexicana gets red and stay really low. That would work well there. 

Just a suggestion.


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## xJaypex (Jul 22, 2009)

I really like how this tank is turning out. Is your Uuapes the one on the back left? How shaded was it? Just asking because i had mine under the Manaus shaded as well but it still grew well.

So jealous of your Pantanal


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Thanks Tex Gal! Thinking about it, I think you suggestion is a good one. I have tried to grow rotala mexicana "goias" but it either did not like the soft water or the fluorite. However, I will be on the lookout in the FS forum !

Thanks, xJaypex. The uuapes is in the front under the diffuser. Its a little more obvious in the original post. I planted them along the slope toward the back. The ones at the back got taller because they got shaded by the taller plants. I trimmed off some of the larger crowns to sell to a forum member. I am hoping the rest will bounce back more since I really whacked down the Rio ***** so they will get blasted by the lights. 

Re: pantanal - if grows well for me maybe there future trade commodity the cards!


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Live and learn! I made some key mistakes during the rescape last week. That coupled with a busy schedule during the week led to near disastrous consequences

1) The Toninas and the Staurogyne in the middle were planted too close together. The bottom parts got shaded and turned brown. I lost my narrow leaf toninas . All I have left is lotus blossom and regular. I replanted them and made sure they were not shaded and there was ample space between each stem. The Staurogyne was more tolerant, some of the lower leaves turned yellow but the main stems were intact and grew rootlets. 
2) The Blyxa was not trimmed back enough from the filter pipes - this caused clogging on the intake slots which I did not pick up on. The flow was affected and the result - fuzzy algae on the blyxa.

Fortunately the Syngonathus and the Panatal escaped intact. I removed all the blyxa. This plant is easy enough to obtain from forum members. I moved the rarer, Stauroygne to the vacated area near the intake pipe. I figure the low growing species will be less likely to obstruct the intake. However the scape now looks a little lopsided. Hopefully as the Staurogyne takes off, it will look fuller. They seem to be happy in their new location, making a stream of little bubbles after the lights have been on for a while.










Some may notice that I am using a bigger pollen glass. My pollen glass 20's are being cleaned.

The Panatal seems happy enough but has yet to develop that lovely deep pink color. Any suggestions? Maybe not enough nitrates?


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## Brilliant (Jun 25, 2006)

I also created a similar stream with my fluvialtis. Problem is it grows so quickly it is hard to maintain the look.

I think the nitrate may be too high rather than low if you are looking for more color in the Pantanal. Increasing the light is not an option so I would lower nitrate and maybe bump iron.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

Still very attractive. Interesting about the color. Tank is only three months old with AS so yeah I guess N would still be high. Personally I 've never had a problem getting reds in new tanks with AS and strong light. How high is the light from the tank?


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

houseofcards said:


> Still very attractive. Interesting about the color. Tank is only three months old with AS so yeah I guess N would still be high. Personally I 've never had a problem getting reds in new tanks with AS and strong light. How high is the light from the tank?


Thanks house! The light is 10" above the water surface. The substrate its a little over 3 months but I am using Aquasoil Africana which according to the ADA book releases less NH4 than Amazonia. Up to now, I had only been adding one 1 ml of Tropica TPN+ per day (2 ml after weekly 50% water change). This morning I decided to add TPN+ and 1 mL of Brightwell Aquatics Nitrogen. Later today, I got a AP test kit - the NO3 at the end of the photoperiod was>5 and <10 ppm probably closer to 6-7 ppm based on the color guide.

Hmmm! now I wonder if chronic nitrogen deficiency plus light that caused my Tonina to turn brown! Growth is still good with the other plants though - the Syngonathus are already getting near the surface again! I guess some are more sensitive than others to nitrogen deficiency.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Brilliant said:


> I also created a similar stream with my fluvialtis. Problem is it grows so quickly it is hard to maintain the look.
> 
> I think the nitrate may be too high rather than low if you are looking for more color in the Pantanal. Increasing the light is not an option so I would lower nitrate and maybe bump iron.


Thanks Brilliant, I will start to add iron tomorrow. I have some of the Brightwell stuff to use up. My toninas now seem to be growing slower than in the beginning - might be the NO3 as measured above.


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## Brilliant (Jun 25, 2006)

Bunbuku said:


> Thanks Brilliant, I will start to add iron tomorrow. I have some of the Brightwell stuff to use up. My toninas now seem to be growing slower than in the beginning - might be the NO3 as measured above.


Welcome. Having a similar tank myself I am sure you grow tired of trimming soon enough!

I like the driftwood you have and the general layout. You might want to create a repens stream instead. Swapping fluv with repens. It would be much easier to deal with. Thinking maybe a rock under the substrate to help reate the slope. I would like to get my hands on some and do it myself. Sheesh you would think I am becoming some kind of aquascaper...?!?


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

I was going to suggest more iron as well. All the variations of Ludwigia inclinata are incredible hogs for iron and micros.

The 'blood' isn't really an _Eriocaulon_. We believe it's a _Trithuria_ species, which, believe it or not, are related to _Nymphaea_ and _Cabomba_.

Tank looks good!


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Cavan Allen said:


> I was going to suggest more iron as well. All the variations of Ludwigia inclinata are incredible hogs for iron and micros.
> 
> The 'blood' isn't really an _Eriocaulon_. We believe it's a _Trithuria_ species, which, believe it or not, are related to _Nymphaea_ and _Cabomba_.
> 
> Tank looks good!


Started adding iron today. Hopefully I will see the results in the weekend. Somehow by the time I come home the lights are out on the tank and the Ludwiga have "closed" their leaves for the night. I don't want to wake it up and rob it of its beauty sleep .

The trithuria never seems to grow well for me. They just seem to whither while other plants in the tank thrive. I noticed hair algae on them, so removed them into a little immersed vase where I have some crypts growing. Maybe they will take off then.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Brilliant said:


> Welcome. Having a similar tank myself I am sure you grow tired of trimming soon enough!
> 
> I like the driftwood you have and the general layout. You might want to create a repens stream instead. Swapping fluv with repens. It would be much easier to deal with. Thinking maybe a rock under the substrate to help reate the slope. I would like to get my hands on some and do it myself. Sheesh you would think I am becoming some kind of aquascaper...?!?


Yeah, Syngonathus are like a weed. Yes I think the Staurogyne stream is a good idea. It may be more tolerant to the partial shade there. But first I gotta get them to grow healthy and vigorously.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Wow cover page! What a surprise!! Thanks mods! To quote Wayne's World - we're not worthy!! rayer:


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

I thought I throw in a picture I got today of the Panatal 4 days after dosing with extra NO3, Fe and micros. I tried to keep the subject more or less the same between the previous shot and today.

There is more vertical growth compared to the last picture, as its now touching the surface.










And compared to the last shot, I am starting to see more red!


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Update:

Changed the MH bulb from Giesemann Tropic to ADA 8000K "green". To my eyes the stems color is improved as it looks less washed out than with the Giesemann










Trying to make an uuapes foreground. Takes patience as I had to started with only 1 stem with 2 crowns. The mother plant is under the diffuser. As soon as the shoots it puts out get decent sized I snip them off and replant in the foreground. The issues I had in the past with die offs of Toninas and the uuapes is likely due to nitrogen (and perhaphs phosphate) deficiency. Now that I dose regularly with Seachem N and P (according to their schedule but 2.5x the amount), its no longer happening.









Whole shebang in the living room









The weather is getting nice outside so it may be time for another garage farm tank if I can get some spare time:-\".


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## Ben Belton (Mar 14, 2004)

Still looks good. I like this aquascape. Very clean and simple.


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## timwag2001 (Apr 15, 2009)

love it! 

i too started to fall in love with syngos, toninas and erios all because of coralite.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Thanks guys! Yep Coralite is the one that got me started on this too! I have top and replanted these stems so many times now that I can't exactly tell which is the Maderia and Manaus are! Luckily the the others are easier to distinguish.


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## drongo12 (Nov 25, 2008)

It looks great. So how many different types of syn have been IDed so far?


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Coralite and Cavan should be able to give you an answer. Off hand I have grown Belem, Manaus, Maderia, Uuapes, I am sure there are others. This place has some nice pictures http://bubblesaquarium.com/home.htm

I will have to post an update soon...Did not realized more than a month has flown by!


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