# do lights tend to fry electronic timers?



## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

I noticed at the online hydroponic shops that several lights are sold with warnings not to use electronic timers...

In the past I did fry a couple of them and went to a heavy duty electric water heater mechanical timer. I thought that a summer thunderstorm had zapped it, but the warning notice got me thinking again...

I was using normal output 4 foot fixtures with the timers. Should have been OK I thought...


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Intermatic is about the only brand of electronic timer sold here in my area. I have ruined many of them using them to operate fluorescent lights. In fact the last time I looked for them the hardware store clerk said he had pulled all of them off the shelves per the distributer's instructions, because they all are flawed. So, now I use a simple plug-in mechanical timer, with a single electric outlet on the side - I plug a short cord extension cord in that and use it to turn on lights, CO2 solenoid and power reactor. Works great, and is easy to "program" - just poke the little paddle shaped things into the rim of the "clock". For my house (condo) outside lights I gave up on timers and just use low wattage spiral power-saver bulbs left on 24 hours a day. For those lights the electronic timers all failed the first time they turned the lights off, except for one which lasted a few months.


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## random_alias (Nov 7, 2005)

I tried a Timex digital timer and it died quickly as well.

Switched to mechanicals.


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## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

This is interesting...

My old two tube All Glass fixtures (with magnetic ballasts) tripped the ground fault circuit interruptor (GFCI) about half of the time when they were powered off in high humidity and less than a tenth of the time in low humidity. My guess is that the ground maintained about the tubes to get them to fire tripped the GFCI when the magnetic field collapsed in the ballast.


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## wiste (Feb 10, 2006)

If you can use the mechanical timers then I would use them as they are more cost effective.

Heavy-duty mechanical timers will not turn on my Metal Halide lights. Similar problems were seen with banks of fluorescent lights. However, setting them on separate timers worked O.K. 

I have never had an electronic timer fail with my oldest electronic timer being eight years old. Note that this timer is being used with metal halide and not fluorescent. Simple mechanical timers work with low wattage PC systems. 

The last time I looked for an Intermatic timer they were still on the shelf next to the light bulbs in Lowes. 

Could the timer problems be related to water being splashed on the timer? After installing a GFCI, some water was splashed near the timer and the GFCI tripped until the timer was unplugged. It did not appear that the timer was even wet but it still tripped the GFCI and plugging the lights in directly did not trip the GFCI. A few hours later the timer was plugged in with no problems since.


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

i have a coralife digital timer power strip and it has not had any problem so far (~6-8months) i have a 18w pc and 96w pc on it.


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## crazie.eddie (May 31, 2004)

I use Intermatic digital timers on CF's and Flourescents for about 6 months now and haven't had any problems yet (KNOCK ON WOOD).


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## vic46 (Oct 20, 2006)

*Timers*

I have tried 3 of the Intermatic electronic timers WITH NO SUCCESS AT ALL. I don't know if it is the timers or me but, I now have a very nice electric timer with the little pin thingies for setting the times. It has been working perfectly since I set it up in Feb. 2006.


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## SUBORPHAN (Apr 20, 2006)

i have a couple of questions:

do the normal mechanical timers do the job as wood as the electronic ones/
does this problem only happen in US or has anyone had a similar experiece in UK?


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

I now have digital Coralife timers that have been working fine for up to 8 months. I've replaced the regular Coralife timers as they've gotten "stuck". Gradually, each of the regular timers would reach a point where they wouldn't turn on at the right time. They were getting stuck at the point where they were supposed to turn on and I'd have to manually turn the dial to turn them on. Not only irritating, but making them useless as timers. I had them in use for 2-3 years I think before they started sticking. Hopefully the digital will work better.


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## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

wiste said:


> Could the timer problems be related to water being splashed on the timer? After installing a GFCI, some water was splashed near the timer and the GFCI tripped until the timer was unplugged. It did not appear that the timer was even wet but it still tripped the GFCI and plugging the lights in directly did not trip the GFCI. A few hours later the timer was plugged in with no problems since.


For me it wasn't. No water splashing at all since I'm not using filters that can splash.

I just manually turn the light on and off with switch on the light fixture. Sometimes at random, the GFCI trips as I turn it off. This happened for both of my AllGlass two-tube magnetic ballast. On a humid day it was about 1/2 times it tripped the GFCI. On a dry day, it was about 1/10 to 1/10 times it tripped the GFCI. Same results if I unplugged the fixture or manually switched off the timer. Also happed if I bypassed the timer and plugged it in directly at the outlet.

Note that the electric hot water mechanical timers are super heavy duty. They come in a large metal box to be mounted on a wall stud. These should be able to handle many more amps than the ones that plug into a wall outlet. No problems with that timer since I started using it.


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## gnatster (Mar 6, 2004)

I to have burned out the Intermatic digital timers when trying to run them on both MH and florescent based systems. Never had an issue with the mechanical ones.


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## wiste (Feb 10, 2006)

> No water splashing at all since I'm not using filters that can splash.


My thought was that maybe the failures could be related to water splashing that could occur during tank maintenance, filter cleaning or pruning. I would imagine that an electronic timer would have degraded performance if they are exposed to water and that mechanical timers would be more forgiving.

I am also curious if people with failures see more failures when using a DIY lighting setup. 
By DIY lighting setup I am referring to a setup that they wired together.

My curiosity stems from the fact that a poster indicated they tried three timers and they all failed and I have four of these timers and none have failed.

How long did the timers last before they failed?


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## onemyndseye (May 12, 2006)

I've wonder this several times when building ballast enclosures.... many times I've almost talked myself into adding a built in digital timer.....but never have.

I've actually seen comercial Halide ballasts for greenhouse setups with built in digital timers that almost look like the ones youd mount on the wall in place of a regualr light switch.

-Justin
One Mynds Eye


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## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

wiste said:


> My thought was that maybe the failures could be related to water splashing that could occur during tank maintenance, filter cleaning or pruning. I would imagine that an electronic timer would have degraded performance if they are exposed to water and that mechanical timers would be more forgiving.
> 
> 
> > That's a valid concern. I built two racks so I could have a compact, more organized fish room. I put the power outlets at the top above all the tanks and off to the side where they couldn't be splashed.
> ...


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## detlef (Dec 24, 2004)

The same over here in Germany with my digital timer.

For a couple of months it's switching t5s on and off perfectly well. Then out of the blue and with no apparent reason (no water splash) it fails and needs resetting and reprogramming. I concluded that some brands of digital timers are everything but reliable.

I'm sure one day when I'm back from holiday I'll find the tank in complete disaster. 

Best regards,
Detlef


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

Wow. I *just* replaced my Timex digital timer with another one from Wal Mart thinking it was just a defect.

So what is the problem? Why can't a digital timer run flourescent lights?


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## ruki (Jul 4, 2006)

There are three factors that may contribute problems:

(1) Fluorescent lamps operate in two states. There is a starting state where a large amount of current is sent across the tube to pre-ioinze the plasma cloud. The second state is a low current mode which sustains the initiated plasma cloud. Switching on and off may send a pulse down the line, especially with magnetic ballasts.

(2) Magnetic ballasts use induction to minimize the current flow and when you shut the light off. This uses a stable magnetic field when the light is in normal operation. Storing up and releasing this magnetic field could send a pulse to the wall plug.

(3) The light fixture may need a ground plane within a short distance of the tube for the tube to fire. There is the potential for a discharge between the tube and the ground plane when the tube is shut off. A good electonic ballast should minimize this effect.

Can you tell that I don't appreciate magnetic ballasts?

I'm wondering if people still have these problems with electronic ballasts... There could be other things going on too.


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

I don't know, my ballast is whatever comes with a two bulb Coralife 30" CF light. I would assume that's a quality product..

This is a shame because I really like the fact that with a digital timer my lights go out exactly at 10 pm and come on exactly at 1 pm. Always exactly 9 hours of light.. I know it wouldn't matter if it was a little less or more but it satisfies the perfectionist in me..


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## panaque (Jan 21, 2004)

the main reason I could imagine anyone burning out a timer is if you are pulling more amperage through either the wires going up to the timer or the timer itself, than they are rated for. In general extension cords are at best 16 gauge and alot are as small as 22 ga. If you are trying to run several fixtures on this kind of setup you run the risk of burning up the wires, timer or ballasts. You would need to be over 15 watts to burn up the lowest rated timers, many are rated for well over 15 amps. A small ga. extension cord will drop the amperage capacity though... 22 ga. is rated at only 5 or so amps, so this could cause a timer to malfunction. If you want to have all 15 amps worth of power though you need 14 ga. on your extension cord or power strip. Although if you do plan on using this much power you should really have a dedicated circuit put in your house's electrical panel. I would recomend that anyway for anyone who has a tank set up. The addition of a ground fault interupter circuit or even plug is a wise choice to keep from risk of shock. And as always have a licensed electrician do it...an electrical panel is no place for an untrained hand!


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## joephys (May 9, 2006)

The lights right at high frequencies. I suppose it could be possible that there are some reflections in the ballast that send high frequency voltage back to the electronic timer that it can't handle. I doubt that that is the cause, but it was a thought that came to mind.


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## detlef (Dec 24, 2004)

As for my wiring I'm inclined to say it's more a problem of magnetic/electrical pulses going down the lines than pulling too much power.

Can some one please think of/explain a way how reflections from ballasts back into (light) timers could be avoided? My electrical skills and knowledge is very limited so please keep it simple.

Thanks for your reply,
Detlef


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## TWood (Dec 9, 2004)

I've gone through several Intermatic timers, I thought I was just unlucky. The last one to fry wasn't even used for the lights but was on the same powerstrip as the light timer. An Icecap MH ballast started tripping the GFCI breaker. The first time it did that, the separate timer for the CO2 solenoid went nuts and stayed useless - it just blinks and says the battery is dying. 

That was one of the newer style digital timers with the flip cover over the buttons. I thought I'd try that style since so many of the other style had died. But since the flip-cover stye is such a PITA to use, and it's no better at this, I'll probably switch back. 

I am also trying a heavy duty three-prong mechanical style with the little trippers, but those are not very accurate IMO. Mine can be off the set time as much as 30+ minutes before it finally trips the switch. The mechanism has too much play in it.


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## essabee (Oct 11, 2006)

I have had huge numbers of electrical failures especially in the presence of water or strong magnetic fields. 

Water vapour is the main culprit; it is all pervading, especially in fluctuating temperature in or around the aquarium hood.

Most digital electronics are unstable in the presence of strong magnetic fields. Ballasts produce strong magnetic fields, even some radio waves.

I prefer to keep all electronic items away from the aquarium hood, duly covered with an aluminum cover, suitably grounded to the earth. The output of the timer should run a relay system instead of the actual gadget, and the relays run the gadgets. Relays chosen according to the ampere requirement of the gadget run.


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