# Cherry shrimp breeder tank npt question



## potatoes (Jun 25, 2010)

Hi,
I have cherrys with my enders live bears, but i want to do a shrimp only tank so they can breed. I want to do an NPT ten gallon, but i am concerned that they may not supply a sufficient bioload for this type of tank. If it works though, it would be super awesome because i think the babies and adults will do amazingly well in that type of tank due to the tons of microrganisms and microfauna. my three qyestions are: will only shrimp be enough, or is it too little of a bioload? should one add any additives to MGOCPS to increase hardness? (i have a bit of coral i can crush) what type of filtration/water circulation would be ideal to distribute heat but not cause excessive co2 loss or blow away baby shrimp? I am not sure if anyone has done this before, but i will document what i do so others can learn from my mistakes/success. 
thanks in advance. 
Mike
P.S. this is only pre-planning so the actual tank making process may not happen immediately


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## Franco (Jun 25, 2010)

Use a sponge filter powered by an airstone for filtration if you are just doing shrimp. The airstone is enough circulation in a 10g but you don't even need a heater for Cherry Shrimp. They will do fine at room temp and actually might reproduce better below 75*. If you add fish, get a small HOB and put a prefilter on it or you could try to find a tiny powerhead if they exist.
Shrimp only might starve the plants a little bit and with shrimp you don't want to overfeed or they will grow too fast making their lifespans shorter. You could add snails...
I'm surprised your cherries arent breeding already as the endlers typically don't get all the babies. Do you have males and fems?
As for the MGOCPS, if you have really hard water, don't worry about it. If not, for just a couple dollars you can buy a bag of oyster grit for birds at feed or farm supply stores. It really beats trying to crush the coral yourself with a hammer or get dolomite lime from a nursery or garden store. Its super cheap if they sell it bulk, not so much if its in a package. They might just let you have a handful.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

I have a similar set up using MGOC. It's a hold-over tank from the move and is not meant to be long term, but it exists for now anyway. I added a "handful" of crushed dolomitic lime and a couple Tblspns of slow release fertilizer mixed with the substrate. I put a filter on it that came with a picotope just so it would get some use; I think it's a 40gph filter. I overfeed the shrimp because at the moment there are only 6 in there (2 have eggs). Other invertz in the tank are daphnia, copepods, ostracods, 2 or 3 other species I am not sure about, and a few of the tiny species of ramshorn snail. The plants I have for now are Ludwigia brevipes, Nesaea triflora, Crypt. willisii x lucens 'bronze' and Fissidens fontanus. All are growing well for now with 2 wpg spiral fluor.bulbs.

I did something similar in my picotope, but there are tons of shrimp in there and it's just 3 gallons or less, so the bioload question doesn't really apply maybe. It serves as a nurse tank where I raise all the other invertz that I seeded the 10 gallon with.


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## potatoes (Jun 25, 2010)

Thanks for the replies. I think they have not breed that much because i only have like 5. they are in a ten gallon tank with a few enders, TONS of java moss, a bit of gravel, a heater, an HOB filter w/ a sponge over the intake, and a sponge filter. I dont feed the shrimp seperatly but they eat any food the enders dont eat, as well as forage in the moss and the sponge filter. the only matinance i do is a weekly 5gal water change and feeding flake food. I am not sure why they wont breed either, but 3 made it to adulthood after seeking shelter in the moss. all i can think of doing is feeding the shrimp seperate or adding some coral, but i dont want to discurage my enders from breeding and when i tried feeding blanched zuchinni, it just got soggy and covered in tiny ramshorn snails.

anyways... I am still confused as to whether or not they will supply enough bioload. I plan to let them breed at will so there are like a hundred (how may should i allow?) or so in there and feed liberally. in this situation do you think they wil be enough? I want to have blackworms in the substrate so they can help take care of dead leaves (maybe dead shrimp?) IDK where to get the other inverts you mentioned, but i will try them if i see them. I am basically aiming at a very low matinance tank that will last a long time.
I already have some coral and it crushes pretty easy with a pair of pliers and i dont think i need much in a smaller ten gal, but i will use the oyster grit in the future. So my current plan is MGOCPS, coral, black diamond blasting grit cap, plants, shrimp, and blackworms. I will look for that filter mudboots. my shrimp love my sponge filter but i am scared it will starve the plants even more. I thought all i really needed was a bit of water movement for circulation, but wouldn't a sponge filter cause too much water surface disturbance for a NPT and release the co2?

any reccomendations on my current set up or planned one? 
Thanks


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

The shrimp won't give you significant bioload at first, but that is when the MGOC will be giving off lots of nutrients. If you let the shrimp breed without control, eventually their population will reach the carrying capacity of the tank. At that point, they will be providing plenty of bioload, and will probably stop breeding.

Somewhere down the line you will probably have to adjust something, but your basic plan should last a long time. Don't worry about extra nutrients for the plants, and unless your water is exceptionally soft there is probably plenty of calcium for the shrimp.


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## potatoes (Jun 25, 2010)

Awesome, that was exactly what i was hoping for. I will try to get a very small powerhead or something for water circulation, and i will probably be removing some shrimp as the population booms so i can seed my other tanks with cherrys. I have never used a powerhead before, so i have no idea what gph to aim for. any reccomendations?
As for plants, i am just going to add whatever i can get my hands on, stuff it full, and see what lives. I will definitely have floaters and mosses, because i know shrimp love them


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## vicky (Feb 18, 2010)

If you are not using a heater you could try no powerhead, too. I have two tanks set up this way that are doing fine. Actually, they both have small flat heaters, but the water is only a few degrees warmer than air temp, and the heaters are at the bottom. Natural convection seems to be enough in these. The reason I do this is that even an aquaclear 10 is too large for them. If you do try a small powerhead, a sponge over the intake will slow the flow a bit, and you could put a homemade spray bar over the output. I use a section of pvc, with a cap on the far end, and holes drilled along the length. But seriously, a guy from my lfs has a 29 gal NPT with no filter or powerhead that is doing just fine, and I have heard of many others. If your tank can be stable with less equipment, it will be less susceptible to equipment failure, use less energy, and cost less. What's not to love? :mullet:


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## potatoes (Jun 25, 2010)

Haha that sounds nice too, I guess i will try that then; its easier for me. I will probably use a heater because i live in MD and it can get cold next to windows in the winter. I also like the idea of convection currents causing a bit of water circulation. As long as the shrimp wont suffocate, i will be happy. would a tank with a acrrying capacity amount of shrimps have enough oxygen at night?

Next step: hunt down a cheap 10gal


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## vicky (Feb 18, 2010)

If you have healthy plant growth with some pearling during the day, and you are not adding CO2 at night, you will probably be fine. Have you seen Walstad's dry start article "Small Planted Tanks for Pet Shrimp"? http://www.bookmasters.com/marktplc/00388Shrimp.pdf If you haven't it is a good read and not too long. She used 1 and 2 gal tanks, but said it should work fine for 5 gal. Two had heaters, two didn't. No powerheads. Again, I've heard of larger tanks working well, too. My CRS are breeding like crazy (thanks Emily6) and the babies appear quite healthy. If they are in a cool spot by a window I would use a small heater. Something like this: http://www.lnt.com/product/heaters/11442-514255/hydor-mini-submersible-heater.html and I unplug it in the summer.


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## TarantulaGuy (Apr 15, 2009)

I have a 10 gal, densely planted with a HOB filter and a small heater that's set around 75-75 just in case my room gets too cold (I do live in Alaska). The tank itself houses probably between 150-200 cherry shrimp, and ~10 Celestial Pearl Danios (They keep having babies, not really sure what the number is). Its a great little tank, I overfeed to make sure the shrimp have food and so do the baby fish, and also to help "fertilize" the tank. I rarely, (maybe once a month at most) toss in fertilizer to that tank, and also rarely (every 2 months or so) do a water change, just top off instead. The tank is awesome, my favorite that I've ever set up. Low maintenance, the cherries breed like crazy, the plants grow decently well, slowly, but well, and the fish are super happy too. I do have an excess of pond snails because I overfeed, but there's a breeding population of Assassin snails in there as well that enjoy having lots of food.


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