# Problems with ADA substrate



## Zibi (Mar 24, 2007)

I want to say hello to everyone on start, as I'm new to this forum. Untill now I used to search for help on our local national forums, but this one simply seems not to be that simple for the members there 

The tank has been started using ADA Power Sand and Aqua Soil Amazonia. The fertizers however are non-ADA due to the tank size (25 liters), so I would end up with less than half-used Step series bottles, etc. I'm considering to buy ADA fertilizers, but I'm affraid it won't help.

The tank is stable - PH 6.6 to 6.6, KH 4, so it seems that I could add some extra CO2, but it's not that bad anyway. I don't believe the tests, but they show that the tank is short of NO3 (generally 5ppm) and PO4 (almost always 0). Due to ADA substrate it's rich however in FE (shows always the color of 1ppm, doesn't matter if measured before or after the water change). The tests are working, showing more acceptable figures on my friend's tank, so I don't suppose they are screwed up completly. Light is 0,66 W per liter, but I have to mention that I used mirrors in the lighting stuff to maximize the amount that reach the plants.

The tank is planted with varius eleocharis spieces and glossostigma mainly. Currently I have added some moss on the roots and riccia on a few stones. Maybe it's not the easiest setup to run, but this was my dream, so...

After a week and really impressing plants grow and basing on my tests results I decided to add macro fertilizer, to raise a little the levels to optimal values. Maybe I should wait a little, as after 2 days from decision some compsopogon algae visited my tank, but those almost immidietly dissapeared. As a second line of agressors the green hairy algae appeared on my eleocharis and the short ones on my tank walls. I have to mention that the fertilizer I have used supposed to be rich of PO4 nad poor of N generally (cause it contain rather NH4/NO3 mix as they advise) - like N/K/P: 5/20/1. The fertilizer didn't raise PO4 and NO3 however, and during 2 weeks of using it I end up with my tank full of green hair algae. Changing twice a week 25% of water.

Now the tank has 3 months. The plants were cutted once after 2 months due to nice grow together with algae invasion. Now I did a deep sweep and added mentioned moss on the roots and riccia. It's clean now because of the sweep, but I need to prepare myself.

Would appreciate any advices from people using ADA substrates and non-ADA fertilizers. That means especially if I should point in some suggested water test values like NO3:10, PO4:1, FE:0,25? I know that ADA substrate is rich in nutrients. Should I change the water twice every day to lower FE level? Thanks in advance.


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

Welcome to APC!

What is your Photo period and how much light are you using?
I have the same substrate setup as you in my High-tech tank and I have it jam packed with plants! I waited a week before dosing ferts with only an occasional K dose. after that I did half dosages of NPK 3x a week and Trace/Iron on odd days of that with no problems. When everything settled in I bumped up my dosages to full doses and only experienced a slight amount of green spot algae but it has taken care of itself. Now I dose double of the rec for my tank with the addition of iron since I have a tremendous amount of light and plant growth.

Co2 is stable in my tank and a constant 30ppms in the water with a short photo-period of 8hrs but lighting of 6.4watts per gallon.


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## Zibi (Mar 24, 2007)

Sorry for missing some details. I was under the pressure of my wife waiting for me to go shopping  I also forgot about US, so here they are:

Tank: 25 liters / 6,60 US gallons (small huh?)
I'm using 15W, so it's 2,27 per gallon. Are U using 6,4 :-s ? Looks quite a lot... Here in Europe we use from 0,5-1W per liter (if I calculate correctly it's 1,9 to 3,8W per gallon). 6,4 looks really high, I don't know too many people using 5,5W per gallon  
Lighting period is 8 hours. Currently decreased to 6h for a week because of the fact that right yesterday I've replanted most ot my plants (it was a restart in fact, but without changing or moving the substrate, stopping the filter, etc.). 

Anyway - I have two problems:

1) Low NPK levels - even if I add desirable amount of my NPK fertilizer, the NO3 and PO4 stay on the low level. Every time I adjust doses of NPK I risk algae problem. And adding just what is desired for that size tank don't rise the levels. Any advise?

2) Very high FE level - so probobaly not only this micro, but other too. I change water twice a week to lower it, but it doesn't give any result. Water change (tap water) refill other micro, so I don't dose any micro fertilizer so far. Is it always like that on ADA (me - first time ADA user)?


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

In general small tanks need higher watts than larger tanks. 2.27wpg is fine on a 200l tank but on a 25 liters it may be low. 0.5-1w per liter is good for tanks from about 40 liters to 360 liters. Below that you need more and above that you can use less. Here's some more info on lighting on small tanks:

http://www.rexgrigg.com/mlt.html

You also mention in your first post that your macro fertilizer "contain rather NH4/NO3 mix as they advise". What exactly are you using as a macro fertilizer? Is it a garden/plant fertilizer? Most fertilizer for house plants contain urea/NH4. Though these can be used, they increase the risk of causing algae, especially the NH4. It would be better to dose KNO3 and KH2PO4 for your N and P needs.


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## Zibi (Mar 24, 2007)

Laith, I don't agree with you about my light. Maybe i didn't explain properly. My lights are hanging just 7cm over the water surface. Second, I mentioned about the mirrors - you may be right generally speaking, but all 1100 lumens are projected onto my tank plants. The hood with fluorescent is diy project with reflectors geometry calculated to light as much as possible on my plants. Considering the article - True, I have 2,27WpG / 8,20 LSI. But my plants, especially glossostigma are growing well. And I'm affraid that with all those nutrients levels and algae problem more light would even make it worse at this stage.

Considering my NPK fertilizer - it's a product for aquariums, but you for sure don't know it. It has beed developed by national aquarium guru, and many people is using it here with amazing results. They say it contains NH4, because the plants assimilate ammonium better than nitrate. And with proper bio-filter the daily dose of this NPK shouldn't be a problem. The problem is that the guru is specialized more in "dutch" tanks as we call them - full of biomass. And maybe nature aquarium require difeerent balance... The fact is that I should use less than advised by the manufacturer, but it don't raise my PO4 level. I can understand/suspect that most of NH4 added with my NPK is immidietly assimilated by the plants. And the rest transformed into small amount of NO3 by my filter. But in any case the PO4 level is still to low in my opinion (the plants eat all).

Anyway - due to first problem, I can change NPK fertilizer. I can any other, including what you suggest - KNO3 and KH2PO4. *But should I try to reach ideal figures of NPK levels on ADA substrate rich in nutrients?*

And what about FE? Do you folks, using ADA substrates, have also high FE=1 for quite long time (over 3 months now...) What to do with that? I suspect that that can be a reason too? Shall I add activated carbon to my filter maybe when the water changes, even often, don't lower the FE?


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