# [Wet Thumb Forum]-dosing phosphates



## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

what do you guys use to dose phopshates?

rick


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## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

what do you guys use to dose phopshates?

rick


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

My LFS sells sodium biphosphate powder as a buffer. I mix that with tap water at 6 tsp/quart, then dose about 1 ml/10 gallons. Works for me.

Roger Miller


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## jpmtotoro (Feb 13, 2003)

flourish phosporous stuff, but i bet roger's way is cheaper







(i'm just lazier)

JP


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## 2la (Feb 3, 2003)

Fleet enema. 99 cent bottle's lasted me (my aquariums, that is) the better part of a year and it's still over 2/3 full! 1ml to 100L of water = 1.3ppm, I believe.


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Fleet enema here too!

~0.3ml / 10 gallons for 1ppm!

I hope the numbers are close to yours 2la!


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## otherguy (Feb 2, 2003)

fleet here also

Brandon

75gallon tank, wetdry filter, pressurized co2 with controller, uv, flourite substrate, 220watts lighting


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## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

fleet enema?? you mean for humans, for an enema treatment? from the drugstore?

rick


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by aspen:
> fleet enema?? you mean for humans, for an enema treatment? from the drugstore?
> ...


roger that!


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## imported_Svennovitch (Feb 1, 2003)

KH2PO4 from my drugstore. I bought 100g and that will last me a few years.

Sven

Have a look @ my tank !


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Fleet here too. It's very cheap and lasts forever.

Proverbs 3:7-8


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## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

thanks guys. and thanks for the directions too. i doubt the directions on the bottle would have helped.









rick


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## 2la (Feb 3, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by aspen:
> and thanks for the directions too. i doubt the directions on the bottle would have helped.


Well, kinda depends on your _problem_...


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## farm41 (Feb 1, 2003)

Hey Rick,

Make sure you buy that fleet at a small store where everybody knows you.









Matt
If you're not making any mistakes, you're not doing anything


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## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

well, i have proven 1 thing... my hagen phosphate test doesn't work. it reads 0 even when i added 1 ml of the fleet enema treatment to 1 litre of water, after no positive reading following the recomended treatment to my tank.

so, i'll get another test kit today. the 2 hagen test kits i own, (P and Fe) are both useless, less than a year after purchase. i can get a seachem kit locally. their iron kit works pretty well, ime. this exp has pretty much wiped out any faith i ever had in hagen, although i still like the ac filters. i wasn't impressed with their fertiliser either. it was the first one i ever bought, and it contained no iron, even though it stated to contain 'everything required for vigorous plant growth'.

rick


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## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

matt it is often bad enough trying to tell people you are even bothering to treat a fish, (why not just buy another fish?), but trying to tell the pharmacist you are buying enema supplies for your fishtank MAY get you some laughs. i doubt they would believe you anyway.

rick


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## 2la (Feb 3, 2003)

Rick, go for the Seachem phosphate test kit. I use it with good results.


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## otherguy (Feb 2, 2003)

Rick I think Roger Miller had a thread about using the seachem phosphate test kit backwards. I think he said it was easier to read. I looked around and couldnt find it(thread), maybe he could elaborate again about it since I just bought one, seems ok for now.

Brandon

75gallon tank, wetdry filter, pressurized co2 with controller, uv, flourite substrate, 220watts lighting


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Brandon,

The reagents are number #1 and #2 and according to their instructions they should be added in that order. Done that way you are supposed to read the results within 5-30 *seconds*, which I find impossible to do.

Instead, add them in reverse order, #2 then #1. The color develops more slowly. I timed things out using the standard solution included in the test and found the best color match when I waited for about 10 minutes.

I did some reading and found that the USGS specifies a waiting period of 6-10 minutes for color development when using similar tests. The color degrades after that time. I suggest that you should test with the 1 ppm standard included with the kit to see how long you need to wait for the best results under your conditions.


Roger Miller


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## otherguy (Feb 2, 2003)

Thanks Roger I will give it a try.

Brandon

75gallon tank, wetdry filter, pressurized co2 with controller, uv, flourite substrate, 220watts lighting


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## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

i dosed the phosphates, and there is quite a difference in plant growth. the plants have taken off immediately. i WAS under the assumption that 30" of fish fed well in a 35 gal tank would put enough phophates into the water. now i would say, that it was not enough.

hope i don't get algae blooms. oh well, that is why i've got 10 oto's waiting 'on deck' (quarentined and in a spare tank).

rick


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## farm41 (Feb 1, 2003)

Rick,

Glad you finally took the plunge. I have had less algae since dosing P, but things can get out of tune real fast if you over do it with the P.

Matt
If you're not making any mistakes, you're not doing anything


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## Shae (Feb 15, 2003)

You have mentioned how much you dose with, but how often do you dose? Daily, weekly, biweekly, when it is needed? I have used the fleets but am not really sure how often I should dose.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

I use Flourish and follow their plan...seems the easiest to me

Robert
King admin
www.aquabotanic.com


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

I dose 1ppm of PO4 (enema)every 3 days on my 3wpg tank.


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## Mortadelo (Mar 14, 2004)

Hi,

KH2PO4 here, less hair and spot algae since I started dosing. 0,5 ppm twice a week.

Do you think every aquarium would benefit from adding PO4?, I remember Tom Barr saying some of the measurable PO4 in aquariums might be organic phosphate and thus may be less available for plants than the inorganic ortophosphate we are dosing.


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## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

does that mean that you are trying to maintain ~1 ppm P? does your P zero out, from dose day to dose day?

rick


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by aspen:
> does that mean that you are trying to maintain ~1 ppm P? does your P zero out, from dose day to dose day?rick


I would say i'm trying to maintain about 0.5ppm,
it drops to about <0.25ppm after 3 days.
I'm not really concerned with the numbers, I just want to make sure there is enough in the tank for the plants! I only test once and awhile.


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> things can get out of tune real fast if you over do it with the P.
> Matt


Matt, you said "things can get out of tune real fast if you over do it with P". What do you see when you over dose with P & what levels are you talking about?

I'm sure mine has reached 2ppm before and I never noticed any problems.
Thanks


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## farm41 (Feb 1, 2003)

One day I dosed 1 teaspoon kh2po4 in my 60g tank thinking it was my k2o. Bad mistake, resulted in severe GW. I make sure I read the labels on my containers now before I dose. It was off the Seachem chart.

Matt
If you're not making any mistakes, you're not doing anything


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## tsunami06 (Feb 6, 2003)

I think it really depends if a tank needs PO4
dosing or not. Many lower light tanks can
easily get away with near zero phosphate and
still have zero algae. That's how my 55 gallon
is running right now (1.75 w/g). There isn't
a speck of algae in the tank, and the
plants are growing very fast. I don't
dose phosphate regularly. The flourite
substrate seems to be full of mulm. I don't
dose nitrate in this tank either (according
to tests, it consistently hovers around 5 ppm).

On the other hand, my 20g long has far more
intense lighting (3.95 w/g), and I will be
dosing P and N once everything 'takes off'.
Right now, the heavy fish load seems to
provide more than enough of both.

Very low phosphates always leads to cyanobacteria outbreaks in my high light setups.

Carlos


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## Guest (Mar 31, 2003)

PO4 dosing is more about adding enough so the plant does not run out. It's not a specific range really, the same could be said of iron.

Dosed every 3 days or so is enough for most plants for such low amounts that the plants use.

Low light tanks can get away with no PO4 dosing. But they _will do better_ with it.
Many tanks rely on the root sources of PO4/iron etc. That's fine in case things run out in the water column but generally consistent feeding of the plants in the water column is going to give the nicest results. 

Attempts at adding more fish food/fish etc to add enough PO4 is a bad idea. You end up with too much NH4 and that, not PO4, leads to algae.

The NH4 produced is very difficult to measure since much of it gets consumed before you can test for it.

But the PO4/NO3 hang around long enough to measure and folks finger those as the inducers of algae due to this.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

update:

i did a big water change a few days ago, re-dosed all of my ferts (TMG, extra iron, nitrates and phosphates, all within sensible boundaries) and i noticed my tank a little hazy yesterday. he he green water really hits fast! you should see it today.

i've never HAD green water before. plus cyano in nice heavy sheets, almost instantly. but the plants are growing nice. time for a blackout. sheesh! and maybe i'll check my nitrate kit. the seachem iron and P kits are new.

rick


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Sorry to hear that aspen,
My guess would be that the addition of P has drooped your N levels to low, therefore the cyano.
Is the green haze attached to the glass (rub it with your fingers) or is it really green water?


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## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

oh, it IS green pea soup. i got the blanket on it now.

as for the nitrates, i dosed them the day i dosed the P, so i know there was enough, but as for whether there might have been too much? well, i'll check it with a new kit.

rick


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## Singtoh (May 27, 2009)

Hello all,

I am not a chemist nor a math wizard. I was wondering if someone could tell me how many cc's of Sodium Bi-Phosphate(Fleet Enema) to add to my 1liter fert mix to come to the right level of phosphates. I have an 80 liter tank, with 130 watts of CF light in the hood, heavily planted with fast growing plants and slow growing plants, and also have floating plants as well. I am constantly getting GSA all over the glass, and some on the plants as well. My dosing routine is 10cc's daily right before lights on. My fert mix is CSM +B, magnesium,Potassium Nitrates, Potassium Sulphate, calculated with James Planted Tank Dosing Calculator. I recently ordered the Fleet Enema, and it will come in a few days. I have read many threads that state GSA comes from low phosphates, I also have just a touch of Hair algae, and a light fish load,feeding 1 time perday. Thanks in advance for any help you could pass along.

Cheers,

Singtoh


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## Aquaticz (May 22, 2009)

Just in case you missed this
tom barr wrote:
<snip>
If you add enough Amano shrimp, they will eat all the hair algae everytime

HTH


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