# Help me identify my algae, and eliminate its cause.



## dogdoc (Feb 3, 2006)

I have a 75 gal planted tank that I recently made some changes to. I was lighting it with an All-glass triple tube strip. A couple of weeks ago, I upgraded to a 4x54w TEK T-5 system, and I also replaced an Aquaclear 100 with a second XP3. I dose Greg Watson ferts, and have pressurized CO2.

Right now, I'm in algae hell. I have what I think is hair algae growing on a lot of my plants (although I have seen posts that would argue that it is BBA). I have trimmed, tested, and cut back lighting to no avail.

I need help. 

First, I guess I need to figure out if this is BBA or Hair (GTA). How do you tell. The threads are short, less that 1", soft, and look black in the tank, but when I pull them off and look closely, they are definitely dark green. It seems to grow on my slower growers, and the shaded bottom leaves of my stems. It is difficult to remove without removing the whole leaf. It is also growing on some of my equipment (heaters, thermometers, and spraybars). My ottos, and BN plecs do not seem to eat it.

I try to keep my tank params as follows.

KH-4-5
GH-5
pH- 6.3-6.4
NO3- 10-15
PO4- 1
K- > 20
Temp- 78*f
(my outgassed tank water has a pH of 7.9-8.0 btw)

I will try to get a pic tomorrow, if that will help.

Thanks, 

Mike


----------



## dogdoc (Feb 3, 2006)

Here's some pics. Hopefully this will clarify things a bit.


----------



## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Looks like you have The black beard algae (bba) as depicted by the dark short hairs and very rough texture compared to normal hair algae. Spraying some flourish excel on the bba helps remove it. Anubias are prone to this type of algae. In my experience, I have dosed some excel, and rubbed it off the leaves, and was patient as I let the tank settle down (2+ months). Once the tank balanced itself out, I haven't seen this type of algae attacking my anubias, nor the other plants. 

Remove as much as you can and wait it out. With your reduce lighting, you might also want to reduce however much fertilizers you are dosing. 

-John N.


----------



## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

actually, that looks exactly like staghorn to me...or maybe I just incorrectly ID it generally...either way...

I get it in almost every tank I start up. It will re-appear with low nitrates.

Staghorn is strongly affected by excel and peroxide and not affected by blackouts. It will go away on it's own.

if it was my tank, I would keep up with weekly WC's and ferts and CO2. Remove any plants/leaves covered in the stuff and dose Flourish excel at 1mL/gallon 2x a week (after a WC and maybe 3 days later)


----------



## dogdoc (Feb 3, 2006)

It doesn't seem to be rough textured like the BBA that I'm familiar with. I was thinking it was some type of hair algae. It is dark colored like that when viewed in the tank, but when I have pulled some out on my fingers, it is definitely green.

With my C02 levels could BBA get a foothold? According to the charts I should be in the 75-95 ppm range.

If I knew what I needed to change to make it go away, I would do it. Maybe I just need a good dose of patience, and continue what I have been doing


----------



## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

Sometimes with a lighting change like that you get an initial imbalance as you need to also increase your fert dosing.

So, yes, patience... I'd also try increasing the NO3 and PO4 dosing a bit and see how the plants react to that.

How densely planted is the tank?


----------



## dogdoc (Feb 3, 2006)

Here's what it looks like. Pretty densely planted.


----------



## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

So how much are you dosing?

You're probably lean/bottoming out on one of the macros (NO3 or PO4), irrespective of what your test kits are telling you...


----------



## dogdoc (Feb 3, 2006)

Well, I was trying to dose EI. But it seemed that by the end of the week, I would have really high levels. I have quite a few fish in there.

Here's what I have been dosing

Day1: 50% WC. Add 1tsp Equilibrium, 1 tsp K2SO4, 1 tsp baking soda, 15 ml of Tropica Master Grow, 5 ml Flourish iron.

Day 2: Added 1/2 tsp KNO3
Day 3: Added 15 ml TMG, 5 ml Iron
Day 4: Added 1/2 tsp KNO3, 1/4 tsp K2SO4, 1/16 tsp KH2PO4
Day 5: Added 15 ml TMG, 5 ml Iron
Day 6: Added 1/2 tsp KNO3

I based these amounts off my test kit readings. This seems to keep my NO3 at 10-15, PO4 at 1, K at ? Do you think this is the wrong thing to do? I do have some green spot trouble, so I wonder if my PO4 readings are correct.


----------



## titan97 (Feb 14, 2005)

Looks just like the staghorn algae I was battling a few months ago. I found that it was low CO2 coupled with either:

1) high micros or
2) low NO3 (and perhaps PO4)

I increased my NO3 and this seemed to fix it. A dose of Florish Excel once or twice a week also sped things up a lot. I didn't change my CO2 or micros.
In my other tank that shares plants with my primary tank, I don't dose CO2, only Florish Excel. This tank has never had any algae of any kind.

-Dustin


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

This is not scientifically proven, but when I dip my plants and equipment in a 1 in 20 bleach/water solution it turns BBA white and staghorn red. So, if you take a leaf and dip it in that solution and it turns white it is BBA, etc. And, if it is BBA you are short of CO2 for sure.


----------



## dogdoc (Feb 3, 2006)

Could CO2 really be the issue? According to both measures (chart and outgas method) I'm well above 40 ppm? My pH measurement from both my controller and test kit reads about 6.3. My KH is 5 at the moment. My outgassed water sample comes in at an even 8.0.

I'm using an AM1000 reactor on the outflow of my XP3 to deliver it.


----------



## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

So you're dosing around 21mg/l of NO3 a week and 1mg/l of PO4 a week (assuming 60g water volume). With 50% water changes and *no* plant uptake (and 0 NO3 and PO4 in the tap water), the maximum levels of these two should not exceed 42mg/l of NO3 and 2mg/l of PO4.

Your PO4 dosing is probably on the lean side, especially as you're dosing it only once and in the middle of the week, three days after a 50% water change. If your tap water doesn't have PO4 in it, you're most likely very low on PO4 during those days.

Perhaps try dosing 1/32 of a teaspoon of KH2PO4 at the same time as you dose KNO3. And switch your micro dosing (TMG and Fe) to days 2, 4 and 6. KNO3 and KH2PO4 on days 1, 3 and 5. This way you get the needed macros to the plants quicker (same day as the water change). Waiting one day to dose the micros is less detrimental than bottoming out on the macros.

For info, I dose about 5mg/l of PO4 a week so you could even go for 1/16th of a tsp three times a week, giving you 3mg/l of PO4 a week.

Keep an eye out because sometimes when the plants are lacking in PO4 and suddenly get enough, the NO3 is sucked up by the plants amazingly quickly!

How long do you keep your lighting on? I wouldn't have it on for more than 10 hours and I have good success with noon burst lighting (I do 1.5wpg for 1.5 hours, 3wpg for 5 hours and then 1.5wpg for 1.5 hours). Don't know if the Tek system allows you to control two of the tubes independently in order to be able to do this.


----------



## dogdoc (Feb 3, 2006)

Lighting is pretty close to yours Laith. 2 tubes running for 2 hours, all 4 tubes for 6 hours, and 2 tubes on for 2 hours.

Maybe I should just put the test kits away and make the big leap of faith and go full on EI?

I looked everywhere in town, and I can not find measuring spoons in the 1/16 or 1/32 tsp range. I'm thinking of making up a stock solution of KH2PO4. Would 1 ppm phosphate 3x/week be a good place to start? Or should I go higher/lower? I just re-tested my tap water, and I got a 0.5 ppm PO4 reading.


----------



## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

dogdoc said:


> ...Maybe I should just put the test kits away and make the big leap of faith and go full on EI?
> ...


Why not? give it a try...



> Would 1 ppm phosphate 3x/week be a good place to start?


That would be a good dosage to start with and see how it goes.

IMO it's definitely worth the money to get a small digital gram scale that can measure to 0.1 of a gram. They're not that expensive; in Europe I can find them for about US$ 35... probably a bit cheaper in the States.


----------



## dogdoc (Feb 3, 2006)

Alright, an update. I put away my test kits, cranked up the CO2 a bit, and started dosing EI. 3/4 tsp KNO3 and 1/4 tsp KH2PO4 on days 1,3,5. And 15 ml of TMG and 5 ml Flourish Iron on days 2,4,6. The hair/BBA/ black death, or whatever it is doesn't seem to be on the wane at all. In fact, it seems to be getting worse. 

What am I doing wrong????????


----------



## mia55gallon (Mar 1, 2006)

*hy*

Give an excel overdose a try. A 10 day 2.5 x OD did wonders for me, granted I got my ferts in line at around the same time. Now I dose IE to the t.+ 5 ml of excel everyday in a 46g, things seem to be looking up.


----------



## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

dogdoc said:


> Alright, an update. I put away my test kits, cranked up the CO2 a bit, and started dosing EI. 3/4 tsp KNO3 and 1/4 tsp KH2PO4 on days 1,3,5. And 15 ml of TMG and 5 ml Flourish Iron on days 2,4,6. The hair/BBA/ black death, or whatever it is doesn't seem to be on the wane at all. In fact, it seems to be getting worse.
> 
> What am I doing wrong????????


Patience... sometimes it can take several weeks for changes to take hold.

Manually remove as much of the visible algae as you can and keep up with the CO2 and ferts.


----------



## Avalon (Mar 7, 2005)

I just triggered staghorn in my tank (you do have staghorn). I dipped some plants in hydrogen peroxide and the algae turned red and died. I believe the cause of staghorn was low CO2. However, I was also limiting nutrients, so slowed plant growth may have had an effect, but I strongly believe it was due to CO2.

We discussed the CO2 issue before. You will need amazing amounts! I've noticed that you must slow plant growth safely in order to keep up. You can do this by limiting nutrients some, and by lowering light levels by raising the fixture. I've found that with high light and full EI, I can't get enough CO2 in the tank to keep up with plant growth.

The point is things will react very quickly now. That light will do wonders with plants, but it only takes roughly 3 hours to grow algae if you limit something, especially CO2. Slow the plant growth by limiting light, and you will slow the demand for CO2. Be solid with your nutrient dosing and try not to vary. I discovered P. stellata is a great indicator. If nutrients vary too much, it will stunt. While keeping dosing very stable, I've actually been able to grow this plant in very hard water!

Here is what I do:
1/2 tsp. KNO3 eod
1/8 tsp. KH2PO4 eod
1/2 tsp. K2SO4 at water change
Water change every 4 days, 40%
20 mL TMG eod, 15mL Flourish Iron eod

I find that these macro levels are just enough. No sense in keeping them in excess. I've found it also helps with green dust. When P levels are higher, green dust is worse. P is slightly limited in my case, but it also slows the plants down a bit, thus reducing the need for massive amounts of CO2. I've not noticed any detrimental effects from riding this line...although I don't prune as often, which is a good thing!


----------



## dogdoc (Feb 3, 2006)

I don't quite get the low CO2 though. Both the charts and the outgas method say that I have quite a bit. 50+ ppm by the chart, and probably even more via outgas. How can it be the limiting factor?

BTW, I did up all my dosing to full on EI and I have noticed some slowdown of the algae. It is not gone by any means, but I did a big pruning and manual algae removal and it does not seem to be coming back as quickly.


----------



## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

dogdoc said:


> ...
> 
> BTW, I did up all my dosing to full on EI and I have noticed some slowdown of the algae. It is not gone by any means, but I did a big pruning and manual algae removal and it does not seem to be coming back as quickly.


Keep at it!


----------

