# Dying fish: Agressive Angel?



## bwingate (Aug 20, 2006)

I've got a 46g bowfront that is probably moderately planted. Over the past month, I've lost 2 angel fish, 2 SAE's, 3 guppies and 4 mollies.  I have 4 corys, 3 plecos (that have gotten huge), a zebra danio and one surviving angelfish. The angelfish and SAE's were in the tank for years, but it seems that the one surviving angelfish has gotten agressive in the past couple of months. The only problem I saw was that the last SAE to die looked like he had scabs or missing scales (like he was being picked on.) Also, every once in a while one of the cory's was very listless, but I haven't notice that for at least 3 weeks.

The mollies and guppies were new additions, as were some neons (that the angelfish ate), and they weren't in the tank all at the same time. I'm trying to stock the tank up a little more to get some "action" in it, and would like to put 2 more angelfish in, but not if they are just going to be pestered to death. (I don't have a quarantine tank - I just don't have room for a second tank)

I'm using the EI fertilization scheme. My CO2 is under 30ppm, and I'm going to check tank chemistry today, but the tank has been set up for 6 to 8 years, so I don't think that's it. 

Any suggestions as to what I should look at? 

Thanks,
Bruce.


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

I'm sorry to hear about your losses, I know how frustrating it can be.

I've only managed to keep one angel per tank except for a mated pair that share one tank, and my largest tank is a 44 gal corner tank. They are just too aggressive to each other once they reach maturity (unless they form a pair) so you might reconsider trying to add more angelfish. I've had good luck keeping angelfish with the three-spot gourami (gold, blue, or opaline). They also don't bother giant danio or the larger tetra. I have black skirt tetra with one angelfish, and lemon tetra with another. Since you do have the plecos, I wonder if you really have enough water to maintain good quality for more fish as the plecos tend to be quite messy. 

Could part of the problem be that your current fish are adapted to your water parameters but new fish are subjected to a shock? Then add the stress of being pestered by a bully fish and it is just too much for the new fish. 

Where are you getting your fish from? Could the source of the fish be part of the problem? When I was trying to aquire a new angelfish I had trouble with them dying, but there are no local fish stores so I buy at PetSmart. The people there seem to expect to a high angelfish mortality rate.

Sorry I couldn't be more help, just too many questions.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Hi Bruce.

My first suggestion was going to be to give us your water parameters, but I see you're working on that already.
You've got one massive load in there with 3 big Plec's, so I'd almost put money on it that the conditions are deteriorating as the Plec's have been growing.
The first thing I would suggest is to get rid of at least 2 of those Plec's, and if they are commons, I'd get rid of all 3 and get something smaller like a Bristlenose or Rubbernose.

It's also possible that the Angel has turned aggressive, so that may be another problem.

We'll try to get it figured out for you when you come back with those test results.


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## bwingate (Aug 20, 2006)

I've check the tank chemistry, and it came out fine - no nitrites and no ammonia, ph is right around 7. I also did a 50% water change (usually done on Saturdays).

re the plecos: there's two common plecos and one that's a darker grey with yellow/gold spots, forgot the species. They're about 8 inches long, but they've been that big for a while. I really don't want to get rid of them - I've got a thing for ugly bottom feeders.

I'm trying to observe the tank to see if anything odd is going on, but I don't really know what to look for. So far I've noticed that the angel almost constantly hangs out in the corner of the tank where I feed them. Also, a few times a day I'll here one of the plecos shoot up from the bottom and bang on the glass! Its quite loud and forceful and I think its the same pleco and its usually but not always when the lights are out.

Oh well - lets see what happens
Bruce.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Hi Bruce,

I guess one of the more important readings would be your nitrate, since you should never see any nitrIte or ammonia in a cycled tank. With a big load like you have with the Pleco's who are big waste producers, your nitrates could skyrocket and cause all sorts of problems like you've explained.
Can you get a nitrAte reading for us?

If your Angel is hanging out in a corner, that's not normal behavior, so I'm still thinking something is amiss with your water.

Do you do regular gravel vacuuming with all of the waste that your Pleco's put out?
I wouldn't even consider keeping one large Plec in my 55 gallon because of the waste, so I can imagine what 3 would do in a 46 gallon.

I hope I don't sound like a PITA; I'm just trying to figure out how to make things better for your fish.


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## bwingate (Aug 20, 2006)

The angel doesn't hang out in the corner of the tank like a bad child, its moreso that he's got a quarter of the tank staked out as his. I "trained" the fish to come to a particular spot when I feed them because I found that less flakes hit the bottom when I did that.

I try to vacuum the gravel as best as I can, but with all the plants it can be tough - it might be time to uproot the tank section by section and do a thurough vacuuming.

I'll have to get a nitrate test kit - the "master kit" that I have doesn't have that one. I'll see if I can get some hygrophilia or other stems to suck up the nitrates that might be there. And while I'm at it, I'll cut the EI dosing by half and maybe cut out the nitrate dosing completely.

In a way I'm glad you're looking at this from a different angle than I am - maybe we get to the answer quicker.

Thanks for your help,
Bruce


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