# Diving into pressurized for the first time.



## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

So I need a regulator and a co2 cannister right?
I want a good regulator at the lowest price, where do I start to look? Any suggestions?

As for the cannister, I know going with a bigger size is better but I only have enough room for this 2.5lb will this cannister fit the regulator? And are there any cheaper 2.5lb out there?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Catalina-CO2-CO...ryZ57074QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And have you guys ever heard of or used this product?
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?planta&1152618083


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Judging by the looks of the pic of the 2.5lb cylinder, I see no reason why a typical regulator shouldn't work with it. 

As to the link you have with the regulator, I am not familiar with that particular one. I have one jbj, which came with bubble counter, needle valve, and solenoid (all-in-one type) which cost me close to $100. I also have done it the piecemeal way, bought regulator off e-bay from a beverage company for around $45, Clippard needle valve for around $20, and a diy bubble counter. Both work well. If it's your first foray into it, I might recommend getting an all-in-one type so you don't have to worry about how to put it all together (though it's real easy). Your calll. Check around, there are at least 3 companies selling these to my knowledge: jbj, milwaukee, azoo, plus apparently the one you link to.


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

Are there any links that can lead me in the right direction? Thanks bert.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

I don't believe that link is for a 2.5 but rather a 5lb clyinder. Be careful before you order.

Bob Alston (spelling) has a great website all about pressurized CO2. For the last week or so there has been a great thread running on the APD all about this topic. It is full of the helpful links you seek. Check out the Krib or if you can't find it, let me know and I will forward the emails to you.

http://webpages.charter.net/bobalston/AquaticPlants.htm#High Pressure CO2

also www.rexgrigg.com


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## John P. (Nov 24, 2004)

I bought my 2.5-lb tank from beveragefactory.com (San Diego). Mike (turbomkt) said he'd pick them up will call before the next SCAPE meeting.


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

Thanks for the heads up dennis and john. How come a 2.5 lb at beveragefactory.com is more expensive than a 5lb?


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Probably because it's smaller. That's my guess on why it's more expensive. 

That regulator you linked above, the red sea, I think someone in SCAPE is using that particular setup. It's a new regulator to the market, and I think I first saw it on aquabuys.com. But it will fit the CO2 cylinder since most US CO2 cylinders have a VG320 sized valve. If has that, then the regulator will fit.

-John N.


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## John P. (Nov 24, 2004)

turtlehead said:


> Thanks for the heads up dennis and john. How come a 2.5 lb at beveragefactory.com is more expensive than a 5lb?


I imagine they sell more of the 5 lb ones.


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

Alright, John thanks, so I how I get around to talk to Mike about picking up the tank for me if I order it?


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## John P. (Nov 24, 2004)

PM him?


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

Alright I'll do that. So, I've found two regulators, which one should I settle on?
http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/mercha...o2_regulator&Category_Code=i3&Product_Count=7

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1


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## John P. (Nov 24, 2004)

I've used a Milwaukee for the past couple years and have had no problems with it. I think I've seen more problems on the boards with JBJs.

I don't have experience with the Azoo one.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Here's some opinions you might want on the different regulators 

I love my Milwaukees and my Azoos. I recommend both. Here's

-John N.


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## John P. (Nov 24, 2004)

Consider whether you want a bubble counter. Maybe get the Azoo and an ADA bubble counter.


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

What does a bubble counter do exactly?


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

turtlehead said:


> What does a bubble counter do exactly?


It gives you an estimate of how much CO2 is bubbling into your reactor/tank.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

The best thing about a bubble counter is the visual check you can make to see if the CO2 flow rate is steady or dropping or rising. You don't really get a quantitative measure of the flow, but a very good measure of how consistent it is.


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

So if the bubble counter reads 5 bubbles, I have a constant flow of co2?


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## John P. (Nov 24, 2004)

No. It gives you a visual representation to check against the CO2 in yoiur water. If you determine that 2 bubbles/second gives you 30ppm dissolved, then you'll know that when all of a sudden the fish are gasping at the surface & you look at the bubbles and there are approx. 20/sec you'll know what the prob is.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

It will mean that your regulator is supplying a constant supply of CO2 at 5 bubbles per sec-min. Visually if you think you set it at 5 per sec, then the next day you see it at 3 bubbles per sec, there is your visual check that you needle valve needs to be checked. Personally I just pump the CO2 at a low rate, and observe the plants pearling or checking algae growth. I haven't looked at my bubble counter since I started them all over a year ago.

Remember you can always make your own bubble counter, similar to the DIY CO2 bottles.

-John N.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Yes, as long as you started with 5bps (bubbles per second) Bubbles just gives you a starting point and a visual reference. Generally on a new tank I start with 1 bps for every 30 gallons and watch the fish, plants and pH for the next few days. I shoot for a 1.0 pH drop initially based on an aerated sample of aquarium water. 

For example, when I set up my 29 gallon recently, I started with 1bps and measured the pH of an aerated sample of tank water. I also measured the kH for fun and reference. I had a kH of 4.5 and a pH around 7.4. I have a controller for backup and set it to turn off the CO2 at pH 6.3. over the next few days and weeks I observed my fish and plant activity and slowly bumped up the bps to about 2bps and lowered the setpoint of the controller to 5.9. My goal is actually to have the CO2 on all day as I use an intank glass diffuser without dropping the pH to low. The CO2 comes on with the lights and usually take 1-1.5 hours to drop the pH from 6.5-6.6 down to 6.0-5.9 The pH tends to hoover around 6.0 all day, not reaching 5.9 until 6-7 ours into the light cycle. The controller shuts off the CO2 at 5.9 but I don't think it would drop below 5.9 if the controller was not there.


I guess that was a round about way of saying to use the bubble rate as a starting point My diffuser is made in such a way that you can see the CO2 bubbles in the stem. Its not a very accurate measuer of anything but I look at it once a day jsut to make sure nothing has been bumped or is leaking/broken. Sometimes in very hot or cold weather needle valves can close or open slightly due to expansion/contraction of the metal with temp changes. In my case my controller will prevent increased flow from being an issue but a visual indication by a bubble counter tell you if your adding more or less CO2 than normal. Without a bubble counter your just guessing at any of your changes to the needle valve and if your not using a controller a bubble counter is rally a must. You can always check it by observing the bps and removing the diffuser and watchign the end of the hose in the water, then re-attaching the diffuser, but what a pain.


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

Alright I'll look into bubble counters too then. Thanks John P., John N., and Dennis.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Ninja posting at its finest

DIY bubble counters work but I find that the water bottle with irline through the cap method always leaked overtime. I have tried making them from glass but my supplies and tools are insuitable. You could make a nice DIY counter from acrylic but I never had suitable acrylic tube on hand and odering for such a small project is nuts.


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

As I am a huge fan of ADA, I'll get that one.


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