# Echinodorus in aquascaping



## Intros (Apr 26, 2006)

Despite the large number of Echinodorus species, these are seldom used in most planted aquarium I saw in different contest (I don't speak about E. tennelus). Some remarcable exceptions exist ( like J. Senske's Heiko's Lesson in AGA 2004) but are rather based on pure Echinodorus selection and very few other plants. It's the difficulty of making a balanced aquascape between the shape and size of these plants with others, or are other reason for that? I have a nice Echinodorus Apart in my tank (now is significantly larger and more beautiful than you can see from the image in my signature), and I don't know how (and if) to integrate it in a future new layout of my tank.


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## AndyT. (Jun 28, 2006)

My impression from reading various posts around here is simply that most Echinodorus sp. eventually get too big for any aquarium and as a result people tend to steer clear of them. I wonder if experienced aquascapers simply avoid them altogether for that reason.

IMO that is a shame. I love the swords. In my aquarium I am trying my hand at the Echinodorus compacta (although I understand that this is a scientifically invalid trade name).

Your tank is beautiful.


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

Amano just wrote an article for TFH about the importance of Echinodorus in the Nature Aquarium... unfortunately I don't think it's online anywhere.


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

I love swords. The only reason I don't use them is they get too big and I don't have a 180g tank to display them in.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

They're not all that big. 

E. angustifolius, sp. 'Sao Paulo', vesuvius, uruguayensis var minor (12 inches max) and a couple others are a manageable size.


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

Dumb question: Are all echinodorus from South America? 

Cavan your post is intriguing.. I would like a sword of manageable size for a 29 gallon SA tank.

I just want something that won't be sending out runners all over the place, at least not at a high rate of speed like E. tenellus does..

What do you recommend? The uruguayensis which I am guessing is from Uruguay sounds interesting..


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

No. There are a good many native to North America and the Caribbean too.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...ils.php?id=25&category=genus&spec=Echinodorus
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...ls.php?id=201&category=genus&spec=Echinodorus

The dwarf form of uruguayensis is a little hard to get a hold of.... I merely wanted to point out that it does exist.


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

Is the dwarf form just a cultivar? As I understand it cultivars don't exhibit their characteristic trait forever and eventually return to the original form.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Let me put in a plug for Echinodorus parviflorus, the 'normal' form, rather than the stunted Tropica form. The normal form has the same shape as the bigger tank buster Amazon swords, but is considerably smaller. For some reason, it has been entirely replaced by the Tropica variety in trade. The picture below shows E. parviflorus in a 10 gallon tank.


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

HeyPK, got one you want to sell?


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

banderbe said:


> Is the dwarf form just a cultivar? As I understand it cultivars don't exhibit their characteristic trait forever and eventually return to the original form.


No, it isn't a cultivar. It's a naturally occurring variety like _Anubias barteri var. nana_.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

If you're looking for 'well behaved' swords i'd like top recommend Echinodorus 'Red Flame' or 'Red Diamond' from Tropica (www.tropica.com).
Have these both in a two foot tank and they are both staying quite manageable. Great red colour too.


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## Intros (Apr 26, 2006)

Small size Echinodorus (it was allready mentioned the E. parviflorus Tropica, and except E. tennelus) is the new Echinodorus Aquartica (also from Tropica). I 've recently got one and you can imagine the shape of an Echinodorus with the leaf size of Anubias nana. Medium size beautiful colours are E. 'Apart' (I mentioned above) and E. schlueteri Leopard (with a height of 15cm), but the main problem for an aquascaper is how to integrate them in a "Nature" aquarium...


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## Satirica (Feb 13, 2005)

Another small sword is Echinodorus schlueteri and E. schlueteri 'Leopard' that has black spots.


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## gacp (Sep 11, 2006)

_Echinodorus quadricostatus._


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## LindaC (Nov 7, 2005)

I currently have a E. Martii in my 29 gallon, it's in the back left hand corner of the tank and it looks really nice. I know that it could outgrow the tank eventually but for the time being, I've been able to manage it. If I have to, I will pull it out and clip the roots if it gets too tall, I've heard that helps slow down the growth of plants. Only time will tell!


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## Capt. (Nov 24, 2004)

E. gabrieli also stays pretty small. I've got a whole bunch of different swords in my 72 right now, we'll have to see how many I have room for in a couple months though.


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## Intros (Apr 26, 2006)

Capt. - if you intend a specific Echinodorus scape could you please keep us updated with some photos?


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## Capt. (Nov 24, 2004)

Will do Intros. Right now I have:

Echinodorus gabrieli
Echinodorus horemanii 'red' (possibly rubin 'narrow leaves')
Echinodorus osiris (possibly new varient called E. ocelot 'dark red')
Echinodorus parviflorus
Echinodorus 'rubin'
Echinodorus tenellus


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

harbich is another one that supposedly stays small. That wasn't the case for me, but then I suspect a richer substrate might have helpled.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

All of the Echinodorus that are in the hobby are from South America or are hybrids/cultivars of South American species. Some have been crossed or mutated for smaller size, and they do not revert. The Cuban chain sword, a grass like specie is the only exception I am aware of. No North American specie has ever been cultivated.

Parviflorus var tropica, and harbich are the smallest sword species other than the grass like species that can be used as a foreground/middleground plant. The "Tropica" sword is commonly available in the USA and has been for years, while the harbich sword has to be imported. The "Compacta" sword is a Florida Aquatic Nurseries hybrid, of what I do not know off hand. The name is decieving though. It has a larger diameter than it is tall, however it is still a tall sword, much taller that the "tropica" sword.

The Apart sword, schlueteri leopard, horizontilas, and a few others are considered dwarf, but not miniature


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

> All of the Echinodorus that are in the hobby are from South America or are hybrids/cultivars of South American species.


Not so. Several specie*S* are from North America.

_E. berteroi_ - North and South America - pages 246-247 Kasselmann
Echinodorus berteroi page

_E. cordifolius_ - North and South America - pages 250-251 Kasselmann
viewable at Big State Park in Texas

E. tenellus - North America pg 275
http://www.tropica.com/productcard.asp?id=067

E. quadricostatus - Central America - pg 268


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

quadricostatus is what is called Cuban chain sword, and is native to Cuba. I guess its in central america too.

Since when is tenellus native to North America? And E. cordifolius I think is introduced. Have you ever seen E. berteroi offered for sale? I haven't. Ok... so your right!


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## gacp (Sep 11, 2006)

Cavan Allen said:


> Not so. Several specie*S* are from North America.
> 
> _E. berteroi_ - North and South America - pages 246-247 Kasselmann
> Echinodorus berteroi page
> ...


AFAIK, all of them also occur in South America. The origin of the ones in the aquarium trade is dubious in most cases, and most likely they come from different sources, perhaps thousands of kilometers apart.

Eg. in my tank I have a beatiful tall _Lilaeopsis_ sp. (perhaps _L. macloviana_) and a huge _Eleocharis_ sp., both collected near Cañuelas, Buenos Aires;










that location you can trust, as I trust the collection site for other fishes and plants from a few fellow aquarists. But in most cases, and especially so for commercial dealers, you just can't; in the same tank I have _E. quadricostatus_ and _E. tenellus_, origin *unknown.*


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## Satirica (Feb 13, 2005)

According to Kasselmann, who I believe is considered an expert on Echindorus, several Echindorus species are found in North and Central America. E tenellus in particular is widespread in North, Central and South America according to her book. Many more species are found only in South America than are found in Central or North America. While I'm sure Kasselmann, like anyone, is occasionally incorrect, I'd bet that she is not completely in error.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Robert Hudson said:


> quadricostatus is what is called Cuban chain sword, and is native to Cuba. I guess its in central america too.
> 
> Since when is tenellus native to North America? And E. cordifolius I think is introduced. Have you ever seen E. berteroi offered for sale? I haven't. Ok... so your right!


_E. tenellus_ is indeed very widely distributed and is found in the US. 
PLANTS Profile for Echinodorus tenellus (mudbabies) | USDA PLANTS

_E. cordifolius_ is not introduced. 
Echinodorus cordifolius -- Center for Aquatic and Invasive Plants
PLANTS Profile for Echinodorus cordifolius (creeping burrhead) | USDA PLANTS

_E. berteroi_ is in the hobby. Its common name is cellophane sword. I don't think I've seen in for sale either, but I do know that a few people have kept it. It says it is sold for aquariums and ponds in the link I gave above, for what it's worth.


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## miremonster (Mar 26, 2006)

Cavan Allen said:


> _E. tenellus_ is indeed very widely distributed and is found in the US.


E. tenellus from North America was described as Helanthium parvulum (E. parvulus, E. tenellus var. parvulus). It differs from the "tropical" E. tenellus (E. tenellus var. tenellus) from Central and South America e.g. by lower growth, green, not brownish/reddish color of submerged leaves also under strong light, and fruit characters: 
http://www.newfs.org/docs/pdf/Echinodorustenellus.PDF
I've obtained E. tenellus from the botanical garden of Halle (Germany) where it is cultivated at least since the 50's and corresponding to the description of E. parvulus, as Dr. H. Mühlberg (Halle) told me. Here in my tank: 








The plants in the pot are about 2-3 cm high, they are apparently more difficult to cultivate than the "tropical" E. tenellus from the trade.
Plants of the same clone from Halle are shown on the homepage of Curt Quester: http://www.echinodorus-online.de/Deutsch/Arten/Arten/tenellus/tenellus.html


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