# What is going on?



## Kensho (Oct 17, 2012)

My Water Sprite and Chain sword leaves are looking skeletonized. 









Could it be the large Hygrophila corymbosa that I planted about a week ago?

I also upped the light in the tank, from 2x T5 HO 24w 8 hours, by adding 3 hours of a TMC AquaBeam 600; 12 watt Marine White (14,000K).


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Your water sprite is converting from emersed to submerged form. The structure of the leaves are slowly being replaced by submerged form. The older emersed leaves that look bigger will be rotting off one by one. Pretty normal to me if that's what you're worried about.

I cannot identify your chain sword very well. Is it Echinodorus tennellus/Helanthium tenellum or Sagittaria subulata? It looks like Sagittaria subulata to me. I have never seen Echinodorus tennellus/Helanthium tenellum which are as large as yours in emersed and submerged form.


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## K Randall (Nov 23, 2004)

The stem plant is not watersprite (Ceratopteris thalictroides), that is a fern. This plant is Hygrophila difformis, common name, water wisteria.

That said, all your plants look less than robust. My first guess is that they are not recieving enough CO2for the amount of light you ar using. If that isn't the problem, there seems to be an overall nutrient insufficiency in the tank.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

K Randall is probably right. I call that plant water wisteria too but I am still confused about the difference between water sprite and water wisteria.


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## Kensho (Oct 17, 2012)

Thanks - ill cut back on the light a bit and increase CO2 excel, and ferts, a bit at a time.


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## K Randall (Nov 23, 2004)

totziens said:


> K Randall is probably right. I call that plant water wisteria too but I am still confused about the difference between water sprite and water wisteria.


I'm not always right, but in this case, there is no question. The two plants are actually very easy to tell apart. "water sprite" is a fern, and all the fronds come up from the same base. "water wisteria" is a typical Hygrophila stem plant. If allowed to grow emersed, the leaves are not divided, and it will flower. (small lavender flowers)


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## miremonster (Mar 26, 2006)

I mean that the grass-like plant has really something to do with Echinodorus tenellus = Helanthium tenellum. Looks to me rather like a Helanthium (chainsword) than Sagittaria subulata, but not like real H. tenellum. Maybe something from the group of Helanthium bolivianum (formerly Echinodorus bolivianus).
In chainswords the leaf midrib is bettter visible and the runners rather above ground, in Sagittaria rather in the ground. 
There's a lot of confusion with the Helanthiums in the hobby. Apparently in the U.S. an "Echinodorus tenellus regular" or so is known with light green narrow leaves, bigger than the reddish Helanthium tenellum (and looking similar to the plant in the pic) 
Neil Frank shows the plant in his chainsword article: http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/Chainswords-NeilFrank.htm
Samuli Lehtonen and Daniel Falck found out that it is closely related with the plant known in the hobby as Echinodorus latifolius (also a Helianthium).
http://www.isentio.com/downloads/Lehtonen_from_Ornamental_FP.pdf


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

My Echinodorus tenellus/Helanthium tenellum actually looks like weeds. Even when they're emersed, the leaves are just slightly bigger making some people think they're submerged Lilaeopsis brasiliensis - I got some of mine because I thought they're Lilaeopsis brasiliensis. The Echinodorus tenellus/Helanthium tenellum I have do not look like the photo in APC. I am sure they're Echinodorus tenellus/Helanthium tenellum because that's what everyone call them in Malaysia for many years. I source mine from a few hobbyists and the plants look the same. I am too lazy to post the photos here...actually I am annoyed about the difficulties of posting photos in this forum. Ok...my tenellus looks like the ones posted in this link (this is not my blog/tank): http://www.bharada.com/aquaria_120.html

K Randall, that means I got the name water wisteria right. Mine was flowering (purple flower), grew out of the tank and grew too huge. I was irritated by the size and threw them away without realising that I had threw them all.


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## miremonster (Mar 26, 2006)

@totziens: I forgot that kensho's probable chainsword might still be in the emersed form or converting. But if they are already mature submersed plants, they look to me bigger and broader leaved than the customary Helanthium tenellum, with the Wisteria as size reference.
[edit: now I realize, You mean the same]

Additionally, submersed H. tenellum (as in Your blog) is more or less reddish/brownish if it gets enough light.


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## Kensho (Oct 17, 2012)

The chain sword is Echinodorus bolivianus


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## miremonster (Mar 26, 2006)

p.s.
@Kensho: In what way do the Chain sword leaves look skeletonized? Do You mean that the new leaves are narrower than the older ones?
How broad are the leaves of the chain sword (in millimeters)?


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## Kensho (Oct 17, 2012)

maybe 1.5cm it is more the thickness.


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## miremonster (Mar 26, 2006)

OK; if You have gotten the Echinodorus bolivianus (= Helanthium bolivianum) as emersed plant, it's normal that the following submersed leaves are thinner and softer than the older emersed ones.
Great difference between emersed and submersed leaves is common in aquatic and swamp plants, the term for that is heterophylly: http://botanydictionary.org/heterophylly.html


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