# Discus in a natural planted tank



## t2000kw (Jul 29, 2006)

Anyone here who has some experience with discus in a natural planted tank?

I'd like to know what routines you carried out for them, how infrequently you could get away with for water changes (with them still being quite healthy, not how sick they could get before you changed the water), cleaning of the tank, etc. 

Discus are new to me. I understand that they require similar habitats to angel fish, so it seemed like a natural transition to have some in a tank. 

Mine are quite small (the largest of the 4 is probably the size of a US quarter dollar), given to me by an angelfish breeder (from whom I got my angelfish also).

As far as my angelfish are concerned, a similar tank requires almost no maintenance and acts like a closed ecosystem, the goal of a naturally planted tank. No water changes since August when we first set it up and cycled it with some goldfish before adding angels. 

This discus tank also has two small angels (perhaps 4 inches top to bottom), and they all get along just fine. The smallest discus sometimes tags along with the smaller angel fish like a buddy of sorts. 

We've had no problems in the similar tank with ammonia, nitrates, or nitrites. These discus were raised in our municipal tap water, which is around a pH of 8 or so. I have an RO unit on the way, but I don't plan to make the water extremely soft since they were born and raised in hard water. I do plan to use the RO water as replacement water when I top up the tank(s). 

Don


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## fredyk (Jun 21, 2004)

I have discus in a planted tank, I change about 25% water weekly, using tap water and everything is going along swimingly, so to speak. Not a problem adding ferts in my experience. 
Mark


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## Marilyn1998 (Sep 13, 2006)

After 12 years raising discus I have found that each tank and each group are different. But some things DO remain constant.

Small discus, lesss than 4" inches, require alot of feedings to grow and to remain healthy. They feed at least 4 times a day. Mixtures of feed include high quality flake, frozen bloodworms, frozen brine shrimp, beefheart, tetra colorbits, etc.

THe large amount of feedings created alot of waste from both fish and food. To keep the water in a pristine condition, the tank requires alot of owrk in removing these wastes in a timely fashion.

The young fish also require a large swimming area. Juvies are schooling fish, so to keep the cichlid fighting and such in check it is good to have a minumum of 4-6, kept in around 55 gallons.

As far as the PH, CONSISTENT is the keyword. 8.0 is a bit high but can work.
RO water is mainly needed for breeding or if your water is liquid rock.

WHEn the juvies are small, daily to bidaily WC's of 30%-50% is not too much to keep the fish healthy. Trying to get away with less, you will see some stunting, and alot more disease. Once the fish are 3.4-4" they are not as susceptible to disease, and they start to feed 2-3 times a day. 

If you can't do large or frequent WC's, I would suggest to go barebottom or POTTED tank for these babies. Keeping them in planted CAN be done, but it is ALOT of work.

I kept my juvies in a potted planted tank doing WC"S daily of 50% for their first 8 months.

I went fully and heavily planted in my 90 gallon once they were older. I do CO2, EI ferts, and WC 1-2 times a week minimum of 50%, 80% if I do only 1 change. Again, these are now adult discus.

Temps for these babies should be around 86 degrees. Once they are bigger, 83-84 is good. Watching all your params are importent, but for discus you should realize that DOCS and TDS are as important to check as ammonia and nitrite.

See my sig for the plants I keep. There are many more that can take the high temps, but I found bunched plants hard to keep alive on my part.

Again, CONSISTENCY is the key to these guys!!

Hope you have alot of fun with them!


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## t2000kw (Jul 29, 2006)

What is "DOCS," and how do you test for it. (I know what TDS is and have a meter for it.)

Since I'm keeping a natural aquarium (that's why I'm in this forum), I won't be using fertilizers, CO2, mega-lighting, etc., so some of the plants might not work. We do have plenty of plants in there that are working well, though.


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## Marilyn1998 (Sep 13, 2006)

DOCS are Dissolved Organic Compounds. Pollutants in the water. You dont measure for them, you do water changes to remove them.

They can be anyone of a number of different things, including organics such as carbohydrates, fats, amino acids, anything that forms organic carbons....DOC's

Allowing too many to build up in the water is very harmful for discus.


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## gibmaker (Jan 3, 2007)

I currently have 9 discus, 2 are the size of a quarter like yours, and they are in a quarantine tank with some ghost shrimp. I feed the juvies about 3 to 5 times a day and clean up whatever is left over with a brine shrimp net, as to not foul the water to bad, I also think the ghost shrimp help clean up food left over by the babies if they don't eat it and I don't see it. I change there water 1 time a week and I do 50% changes. My 2 little ones are very healthy and active, even though they are the only 2 in the tank they are fearless of me, they swim right up to me when I walk up to the tank and try to follow me when I walk away. I also have a 125 gal planted tank with 7 discus, Cory's, 1 bristlenose, 1peacock eel, 1 blue ram, 12cardinal tetras, about 4rummynose tetras, 1 bamboo shrimp, ghost shrimp(30 or more). I usually do about 35 to 45 gal water changes 1 time a week and have had no problems, i have had these discus with the exception of the babies for over a year now with no problems. Look at my tank in introductions and greetings, its titled hello from Wi, sorry for the bad pictures, that is my first upload.


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## danielb (Jul 5, 2006)

I was just about to start a new thread about this very topic, how handy there is one here already!

I wonder if I was to let the planted tank become fully established (over two-three months) if the same level of heavy water changes would be required for raising the initial you'd discus (I don't think you can buy adults easily). Would snails like the Malaysian trumpet snail (which I've had in the past), help keep the waste levels in control? I know that in the natural tank model the plants will soak up the excess nutrients quickly but I wonder if the snails would also help.

Basically I'd like to keep Discus, I like the ease & low maintenance of keeping natural planted tanks and wonder if the two could be combined...


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## t2000kw (Jul 29, 2006)

I had 4 small discus given to me about a month or so ago. One died about a week ago when we had a nitrite spike that we forgot to plan for. In our planted tank experience (using soil subsrtate under a layer of gravel), we experience a spike around 3 weeks (give or take). We usually are watching for it and take appropriate action for about a week or so and do water changes frequently. We understood why this one died. Total water change about a week ago was probably close to 100% done in 2 or three changes (never a real total 100% change but approaches that the more you change). 

Yesterday I discovered another of the 4 dead. Tested for nitrites first since we never have an ammonia problem with the amount of plants we use in our tanks. Zero nitrites. Then I tested for nitrates--also zero. Ammonia was next--also zero. 

We had, up until a couple of days ago, 2 medium sized angelfish in the tank coexisting with these discus and there didn't seem to be any problem. I noticed that the smaller of the three didn't come out to eat when I fed the angels in the tan but the biggest one (half dollar size at best) did eat. Fearing that the angelfish might be scaring the smaller ones, I took them out on Wednesday. But last night was when I discovered the second dead one. It could have been there more than a day but I'm not sure. We have enough plants that it could have been hiding very easily. 

I haven't tested for TDS yet but when I've added water it was RO/DI water with almost zero TDS.

Are small discus more prone to be affected by problems than bigger ones?

Any ideas as to what might have happened since the tests come back fine? 
The test kit is pretty new, an dit did detect the nitrite spike a week ago.

The three surviving discus at that time seemed to be OK, but it is possible, I suppose, that the spike set the next smallest up to die a week later. 

(will re-post in my club forum SWOAPE and possibly in another forum).


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