# Fast growing plant growth stalled and other problems.



## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

Sorry if this is a little garbled, I'm kinda tired today. 

I have a 10 gallon tank with two 10 watt mini compact fluorescents, 6500k, on a 12/12 schedule (approximate, I haven't gotten around to buying a timer yet). No CO2, Only ferts I use are one drop of Fleet every water change, which is 50% per week. Nitrates are averaging between 10-30mg/L since I finally got my dwarf puffers eating. Clam meat is incredibly messy and really boosts my nitrate levels.

pH: 7.8~
GH: 100 mg/L
KH: 75 mg/L

I have crushed coral in my HOB filter, because the water straight out of the tap has terrible buffering capacity.

I ran right out of Flourish Excel and I'm waiting for my paycheque, so I can get all the Flourish, Flourish Excel and whatever else I need in large quantities and not worry about it again. (Luck has it, I ran out of Seachem Prime at the same time, and I use too much of it to keep buying expensive 100mL bottles).

But there's a big problem. The plants in my tank are listed in my signature. All of the fast growing plants have totally stalled. Growth is _exceedingly_ slow, moreso than my Cryptocoryne and my HC. Those two are actually growing, same with the Java fern. The fast growing plants are also pale, quite pale. BGA is taking over, and I think that has a fair bit to do with the fact that the plants that should be stealing nutrients away from the BGA have just keeled over.

This is obvious on the L. sessiliflora and the H. polysperma. When I buy them, they're in an emersed state (Tropica plants) and grow quite well for about a month. After that, what new growth that does emerge is pale green, and on the H. polysperma, some of the leaves have pale (but not as pale) green veins. The L. sessiliflora looks awful, it's pale and almost wilted. BGA grows on the leaves of both. It also grows on the HC, but as long as I keep removing it, the HC keeps growing.

So what am I missing? I finally got rid of the green spot algae after supplimenting PO4, and the BBA has slowed down... I don't mind slow growth, but my plants are just looking sickly and I really want them to survive.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Sounds like iron deficiency. Get some chelated iron in there as soon as you can. It probably won't stop the BGA, but at least it will get the Hygrophila and Limnophilia going again. When they get more crowded, the BGA will begin to decline.


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

Stopping the BGA is easy enough, I would think. I think it's just running rampant because I'm not getting enough good growth in there anymore.

I've done some massive water changes, and some stems of the L. sessiliflora have shown some regrowth on their tips. This is getting BGA slimed as well, but I might be able to clean it off frequently enough to keep it from killing the new growth. The H. polysperma is growing slower than my A. nana, which is just weird. It's sending out new growth on the stems, but what's coming out is very pale.

Is there anything else that could cause these symptoms, besides iron?


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## mrbelvedere138 (Jan 18, 2006)

Just a drop of Fleet isn't cutting it. Get a good micro supplement (like Fluorish) and start dosing. What about potassium? Are you dosing that? A good DIY Gatorade bottle CO2 wouldn't hurt. Usually BGA happens when nitrates are a little too low. Maybe check your test kit.


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

mrbelvedere138 said:


> Just a drop of Fleet isn't cutting it.


No? It's a 10 gallon tank, I shouldn't need much more than a drop (more like a few drops, it's hard to get only one out of that bottle).



> Get a good micro supplement (like Fluorish) and start dosing.


I just started that today. I was a little put off by the colour and smell of the Flourish. I almost took it back, thinking someone tricked me into buying a bottle of soy sauce. 



> What about potassium? Are you dosing that?


I'm not sure why I should. The plants aren't showing signs of needing it.



> A good DIY Gatorade bottle CO2 wouldn't hurt. Usually BGA happens when nitrates are a little too low. Maybe check your test kit.


DIY is not something I have in mind. I do not desire exploding or backwashing yeasty bottles in my apartment.

As for the nitrates, I've tested it against my tap water. Shows 0 nitrates (as it should be, according to my water utility).


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## mrbelvedere138 (Jan 18, 2006)

You need a fairly constant level of micros and macros for plants to grow. You do not always need to see signs of a deficiency, your plants not growing is the surest sign of all. Dose potassium, there isn't enough in regular Flourish. 1 drop of phosphate fertilizer isn't creating an optimal environment for the plants to grow. You need not worry about backwashing CO2 if you have a check valve. I wouldn't worry about it exploding as long as your diffusor isn't clogged.


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

mrbelvedere138 said:


> You need not worry about backwashing CO2 if you have a check valve. I wouldn't worry about it exploding as long as your diffusor isn't clogged.


I do not want to use CO2. I don't feel I need to use CO2. This is a low-tech planted tank. CO2, especially DIY, is just going to cost me more in labour and frustration than it's worth as this point.

The BGA has halted in its tracks as soon as I started adding ferts. Dosing regimen is Flourish 3x a week, Excel daily, Flourish Iron 2x a week, and about 5.-1mL of Fleet 1x a week.

L. sessiliflora is sending up new growth through some stems, but it's a bit slow. I don't know if the H. polysperma is growing or not, it's in pretty bad shape. Everything else never cared about any of this except when getting slimed by BGA.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

I believe it is an iron problem since symptoms of iron deficiency are seen primarily on new growth. The leaves turn yellow and become brittle, also greenish veins with surrounding yellow leaf tissue are strong indications. Further more, these symptoms appear in fast growing plants first and later in the slow growing ones, so that is probably why your polysperma was growing slower then the anubias.

In fact, i will go further and say that it is not at all likely to be potassium, since the symptoms of that are small pinholes that manifest only in older leaves, they slowly enlarge as the deficiency progresses. This can usually be seen in best in amazon sword plants. In addition, potassium deficiencies do not have green veins. So your green veined - pale - new growth is definitely not suffering from potassium problems.

While you may see some improvement in your plants now that you are adding iron, it will be quite some time before they fully recover. The more they lived with the deficiency the longer the recovery time. 

In a non CO2 tank, after a week or 2 of this deficiency showing visibly, i would expect your plants to have a minimum recovery time of 3-4 weeks, probably longer before they are back to their former glory.

By the way, good job on describing the visual symptoms of the plants, and the chemical readings in the same post  . Usually people do not describe things in such detail and make diagnosis difficult and painful.

Good luck.


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

Zapins said:


> I believe it is an iron problem since symptoms of iron deficiency are seen primarily on new growth. The leaves turn yellow and become brittle, also greenish veins with surrounding yellow leaf tissue are strong indications. Further more, these symptoms appear in fast growing plants first and later in the slow growing ones, so that is probably why your polysperma was growing slower then the anubias.


Brittle is right. I had H. polysperma leaves snapping in half when I tried to gently rub BGA off of them.



> In fact, i will go further and say that it is not at all likely to be potassium, since the symptoms of that are small pinholes that manifest only in older leaves, they slowly enlarge as the deficiency progresses. This can usually be seen in best in amazon sword plants. In addition, potassium deficiencies do not have green veins. So your green veined - pale - new growth is definitely not suffering from potassium problems.


:biggrin:

My java ferns are perkier than ever. They started popping out leaves like crazy shortly after I noticed the faster growing stuff looking awful. I took the opportunity to split up the rhizome. Now I have many little java ferns.



> In a non CO2 tank, after a week or 2 of this deficiency showing visibly, i would expect your plants to have a minimum recovery time of 3-4 weeks, probably longer before they are back to their former glory.


They're showing some improvement already. The H. polysperma I am unconcerned with, it doesn't really look that bad at the moment. The L. sessiliflora, on the other hand, looks like it's been through a dirty whirlwind. 

Growth is starting on the tips of some of the stems. I suppose I should just let the new growth come in, and once it's long enough, decapitate the good growth and throw the rest of the mess out?



> By the way, good job on describing the visual symptoms of the plants, and the chemical readings in the same post  . Usually people do not describe things in such detail and make diagnosis difficult and painful.


Aww, thank you. I try, the last thing I want to do is frustrate people with my problems. 

Part of it was that I was too lazy to take a picture.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Hehe, glad your plants are looking better  Always a pleasure to help someone with good descriptions.

---------"Growth is starting on the tips of some of the stems. I suppose I should just let the new growth come in, and once it's long enough, decapitate the good growth and throw the rest of the mess out?"-----------

Just let the new growth grow in off the older plant, you don’t want to disturb and stress it out more while it is recovering. The older leaf tissue and stem will continue to donate nutrients/food into the new leaves. once the stems are large enough (maybe 6 or so inches) you can cut them and replant, or just leave the old stems in place if they don’t rot/bother you.


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## GekkoGeck0 (Nov 3, 2005)

Zapins said:


> Just let the new growth grow in off the older plant, you don't want to disturb and stress it out more while it is recovering. The older leaf tissue and stem will continue to donate nutrients/food into the new leaves. once the stems are large enough (maybe 6 or so inches) you can cut them and replant, or just leave the old stems in place if they don't rot/bother you.


Most of the older tissue on these plants is emersed growth from when I originally bought the plants. The submersed growth that grew was destroyed by the BGA and the iron issue. Some of the emersed growth is rotting, but there's regrowth on 80% of the stems.

Yesterday, there wasn't as much. This morning, I noticed three stems getting new growth where there was none before.

I'm actually ashamed to show people my tank now because the plants look so ratty... I usually take pictures when I do a rescape (I removed some rocks and such), but this time... out:

I think it should start to look much healthier by the end of the month. And I'll have new batteries for my camera by then (all these ferts broke my wallet  )


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