# Help with ferts please



## sllo (Sep 29, 2004)

I have a 30 gallon Tanks, 2.5 WPG, that has 3 small discus , 4 coris and 4 blue rams.
Usually when I test the nitrates are between 10-20ppm. phosphate around 0.25.

I have KNO3 (I dont think I need it though since I get N from Fish load), K2SO4, Fleet Enema, MgSO4 and TE.
Could you please help me on figuring out the daily dosage.

From some articles I read and from the fertilator I came up with this.
I have to go with the NO3 free solution



> From Edward
> NO3-FREE solution
> 0.00:0.25:1.00 (NO3O4:K)
> KNO3 - 0.00 g
> ...


so from the fertilator
5.97g KH2PO4 = 8334 ppm Potassium + 3427 ppm K 
33.3g K2SO4 =29903 ppm K

since I have fleet enema instead of KH2PO4 I have to get 8334ppm P in 500ml of water from 31.72 ml fleet enema and 3427+29903=33330 ppm K in 500ml of water from 37.12g K2SO4

Are these calculations correct or am I missing something?

Also how many ml Fleet enema, K2SO4 and MgSO4 solution should I dose each day for starters?

thanks.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Hi,

calculating the fleet enema is problematic because it comes as a mix of Mono-basic Sodium phosphate and Di-basic Sodium phosphate. I am sure you can find the KH2PO4 somewhere around.

Can you post more information.
What is your aquarium substrate, GH, KH, CO2, pH, Ca and Mg?
What is your tap NO3, PO4, GH, KH, pH, Ca and Mg?

Your aquarium requires a different dosing solution. The reason is the discus in such a small tank. These fish produce a lot of NO3 and PO4. Your tank will not be able to keep the natural balance between the fish and the plants. You will have to help it with water changes.

Make the following solutions

Discus solution
0.00:0.00:1.00 (NO3O4:K) 
K2SO4 - 37.12 g 
in 500ml 

Mg solution 
0.1 (Mg) 
MgSO4 - 16.90 g 
in 500ml 

Start dosing daily 6ml of each solution. After one week, check your NO3, PO4, GH and post your results in this thread.

Edward


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## sllo (Sep 29, 2004)

> What is your aquarium substrate, GH, KH, CO2, pH, Ca and Mg?


GH= 8 (5 hours after I dosed 6ml K and 6 ml Mg solution)
KH= 3
PH= 6.5
NO3 = 20
PO4= 0.25
Ca= ?
Mg = ?
dont have test kits for the last two.



> What is your tap NO3, PO4, GH, KH, pH, Ca and Mg?


NO3 = 0
PO4 < 0.1
GH = 7
KH = 4
Ca ?
Mg ?

tried to contact my water department put they wouldnt tell me the water analysis. They want some kind of an application in order to tell me and it will take at least 2 MONTHS for them to reply. Some things really SUCK over here.



> calculating the fleet enema is problematic because it comes as a mix of Mono-basic Sodium phosphate and Di-basic Sodium phosphate. I am sure you can find the KH2PO4 somewhere around.


I am sure I can not find any KH2PO4. I searched everywhere here ( Cyprus). I went through hell to find KNO3 and K2SO4 and guess how much the cost. $30 for 1Kg of NO3 and $30 for 500g of K2SO4.

As far as fleet enema. According to this link: http://users.ev1.net/~spituch/Chemicals/chemicals.html#Phosphate from Fleet Enema
you can calculate the PO4 in fleet enema. Taking these data I used the equation that this page has and using microsoft excel I manage to get the dose for fleet enema. 
Anyway, it doesnt seem that I am gonna need to dose any PO4 right now.

I also have this algae in the aquarium.










is it BBA?
What should I do in order to get rid of it?


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## ShaneSmith (Feb 15, 2004)

Yes it is BBA. I would work on your ferts. Once your ferts are good just take a syrnge and squirt hydrogen peroxide on it. It should turn white and with good ferts it wont come back.

You must have an excess of all nutrients all the time.


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

You don't mention whether you dose CO2 or not...


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## sllo (Sep 29, 2004)

I dose CO2. It is DIY with a power reactor. I change the mixture almost every week. Will go presurised in couple of months.

I am using 2x 2lt bottle. Do you think adding a third bottle would be too much, risk of OD etc?


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

CO2 is your problem.

Drop the pH to 6.4 using CO2 and keep it there.
DIY is the issue, dosing the PO4/NO3 etc will help, but the real factor is the CO2.

Only when that is dealt with, will you have good success with the nutrients and less algae.

Test the CO2/pH at the end of the lighting peroid FYI.
Good consistent CO2 will stop the growth of many species of algae.
Folks will properly set up CO2 gas tank systems seldom have issues with BBA.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## aviel (Sep 12, 2004)

Tom,

I read that nitrifying bacteria become less effective as PH goes down. Doesn't it make more sense to shoot for KH=6 & PH=6.6 instead of your recommended KH=4 & PH=6.4 ? Or even higher KH/PH values?

Aviel.


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## ShaneSmith (Feb 15, 2004)

IN a planted tank Nitryfying bacteria are not really a big factor. They process a lot less Nitrite/ ammonium compared to a non planted tank. it is not a big deal.


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

The bacteria in question are not influenced that much till we really get down there in the pH 5's.
Discus folks do that.
Plant folks generally don't(maybe a _very_ few).

You do need to add KNO3.
If you plan on keeping the plants in good shape, you need reasonable stocking levels/feeding.

Even with 3 adults, at 2.5w/gal, there is no way your tank has enough NO3.

Do not assume that it does.

If your CO2/PO4 are low, then the NO3 will build since the tank is POP4/CO2 limited, not NO3.

It's not that your plants have enough, it's that *your plants are not using it now. *

Same thing caused folks to assume PO4 excesses caused algae.
The plants where not growing because of other reasons, not the NO3 or the PO4.

If you keep discus and feed a lot, you need to do large weekly(or 2x a week better yet) water changes anyhow.

Even with one adult per 10 gal, only 50% of the N supplied to a 120 gal with 13 adult fish came from food with good CO2 and 2w/gal.

So add about 1/5 teaspoon 2x a week or so after each water change and add KH2PO4/Fleet that day.
The following day dose 5 mls of trace.

Do not add MgSO4 etc, you do not need it most likely and add only very small amount.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## sllo (Sep 29, 2004)

ok guys, im little confused here.

As I can see there are different methods of adding ferts, PMDD, PPS and also looking at chuck's calculator it tells you how many ppm of each macro to have.

Right now my 30G tank has 1 3" Discus ( the other two died last week ) , 10 Neon tetras, 4 Blue rams, 2 ballon rams, 5 coris, 7 shrimps, one young flying fox.

I added more co2 to the tank now the ph=6.5 and the Kh=3. from the co2 chart the co2=28ppm.

I did a 50% water change last monday and since I couldnt decide which method to use to add fertz, I chose the "easiest" one.
I made a solution of K2SO4 to add 20ppm in 15G , Fleet Enema to raise the phosphate to 1ppm of the whole tank water, MgSO4 to add 5ppm in 15G, and added Tetra florapride to add TE and raise Fe to 1ppm.

I tested the water today:
Ph =6.5
Kh =3
NO3 =15 (After doing the water change it was 10ppm)
Fe =1
Gh =7


Do I need to add ferts and TE during the week (between water changes?)
I am testing the NO3 almost every day in order to see how the plants are using it and it doesnt seem to drop.


So, what am I doing wrong?



I am going to do a water change on sunday. Shall I change this procedure? If yes, could you please tell me how much to dose after water change, during the week, how often etc?


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

Yes, you need to add fert's 2-3x a week with higher light/CO2.
Do not trust your NO3 test kit BTW.
Nor the fe.
If you measure the traces/NO3 from the dosing calculator, that's fine.

Eg, you added 10ppm of NO3= that is at least a 2-3 day's supply at high light etc when things are running at max levels.

So if they are less or = to max uptakes, then you will have enough NO3.
Same deal with Fe, PO4 etc.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## sllo (Sep 29, 2004)

plantbrain said:


> Do not trust your NO3 test kit BTW.


So what you are suggesting is dose 10ppm NO3, 20ppm K, 1ppm P and TE every whater change for the water volume I change.

And then add the same amount of ferts every 4th day?
Isn't it risky though just to add NO3 whithout really knowing the NO3 value in the tank (since I shouldnt trust the NO3)?
I am afraid that I am gonna kill my fish.
At what levels is NO3 dangerous to fish?


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