# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Low Tech Substrate Advice



## abf (Feb 24, 2004)

I'm looking to set up a low tech (i.e., no CO2 or liquid fertilizer addition) tank with a medium density of planting. I had thoughts of using a clay bottom layer with some peat mixed in to provide the necessary nutrients. What are people's preferences for Flouite vs. EcoComplete vs Profile. Also I know how to get hold of Flourite and EcoComplete but where can I find Profile (my local Home Depot doesn't carry it).


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## abf (Feb 24, 2004)

I'm looking to set up a low tech (i.e., no CO2 or liquid fertilizer addition) tank with a medium density of planting. I had thoughts of using a clay bottom layer with some peat mixed in to provide the necessary nutrients. What are people's preferences for Flouite vs. EcoComplete vs Profile. Also I know how to get hold of Flourite and EcoComplete but where can I find Profile (my local Home Depot doesn't carry it).


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## ScottH. (May 13, 2004)

Nursuries may have it. Preferably the nurseries with ponds in them.
I got mine a a fish store though.

My goal is a sea of green.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Eco-Complete(black)is very easy to use, no rinsing required. Just pour out of bag into tank without any clouding of the water.It has a lot of nutrients for the plants.

Flourite(red)is very hard to get rinsed it will not come completly clean and will cloud your water some what for a few hours.Its rich in iron.

I have never used Profile.

Don't buy...Adopt a homeless dog or cat from your local shelter or rescue group.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by abf:
> I'm looking to set up a low tech (i.e., no CO2 or liquid fertilizer addition) tank with a medium density of planting. I had thoughts of using a clay bottom layer with some peat mixed in to provide the necessary nutrients. What are people's preferences for Flouite vs. EcoComplete vs Profile. Also I know how to get hold of Flourite and EcoComplete but where can I find Profile (my local Home Depot doesn't carry it).


Products like Fluorite are primarily designed for aquariums that get CO2 injection. For example, Fluorite has almost no organic matter, so you may have to add CO2 injection to get decent plant growth. Now your tank is no longer Low-Tech. You may even have to dose with liquid iron, since the iron isn't all that available.

Ordinary potting soil, without additives, will provide plentiful CO2, iron, you name it. See specs on my 45 gal posted in Picture Gallery. I've recently gotten outstanding results growing plants in pots using a 1-2" layer of Miracle Grow Potting Mix. You can get Miracle Grow anywhere. I think I got my last bag at Home Depot.

If you do choose to go with the other products you mentioned, I'd be very careful about mixing soils. Iron can be toxic to plants in large quantities or it can stimulate rampant algal growth (It's happened to me twice and I had to tear down both tanks). I would especially not mix clay with peat, you will probably get a massive iron release.

That's why I set up my tanks either with a layer of pure topsoil or a layer of pure potting soil. Don't mix soils!

Diana Walstad


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## Wally (Aug 31, 2003)

Diana,

I am going to be setting up a new 55 in the next few weeks, do you like the sounds of this?

A 2-3 inch layer of miracle grow potting soil and then on top of that another 2-3 inches of sand?

I have been using Kitty Liter under sand for quite some time now but I think this time I might try the miracle grow instead.

Any thoughts on using the kitty liter and miracle grow in two layers?

Thanks,
Wally

*Don't feel like Satan, but I am to them...*


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Hi Wally,

You're on the right track, but I'd change your specs to the following:

Use only 1 to 1.5 inches of Miracle Grow Potting Mix. This is because 2-3 inches may become too anaerobic and make it difficult for plants.

Use 1-1.5 inches of gravel (not sand) to cover the potting soil This is because sand is too "tight" a seal for your soil layer. Gravel is more permeable, and aerated water can more easily get into soil layer. Also and most importantly, I've not had good luck using a sand cover. I know its harder to find, but use gravel, even if its shiny or pink-colored.









In my book, I take hobbyist step-by-step on how to set up a soil tank. But here are the highlights:


Pour in the soil to 1 to 1.5 inches
Wet the soil with a little water so that its moist but not submerged
Add about half of your gravel on top
Put the plants in
At the same time spoon more gravel around plants
Add water to about 3" above your gravel using a small plate (or your hand) to block force of water
You'll see where soil is most disturbed and you can spoon in more gravel where the soil is "leaking out"
When you've got all the plants in, remove this water, which will probably be a little cloudy.

I add fish same day. If the fish don't look happy (not eating), then remove them immediately and start protective measures. Look at it this way; the worst that can happen is that you might have to do a water change. My bet is that the fish will love this tank. The tank may be cloudy for a day or so, but cloudiness will go away.

But remember, you've got to start with plenty of plants, good lighting, and moderate filtration. The best soil in the world won't work if you set this tank up with a wet-dry filter that removes all the CO2, or you have poor lighting.

See picture gallery for my 45 gal, which was set up this way, but with a different potting soil.

Diana Walstad


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## nativeplanter (Jan 27, 2004)

Doesn't Miracle Grow potting mix have a whole lot of fertilizer in it? Wouldn't that potentially cause problems? If I remember, their ads claimed that it made for much better houseplant growth, but I think it was from the additional fertilizer.

-Laura


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Dear Laura,

The Miracle Grow Potting Mix that I used contained N:K as 0.18%:0.06%:0.12%. The plant that I grew in pots grew twice the size as a very similar plant in a pot with another potting soil mix. I'm going to try to put this picture in the Picture Gallery. Have patience if I don't succeed.









You have to realize that if plants grow well, they'll remove the ammonia in the water. Also, while I've cautioned about inorganic fertilizers, I'd make some compromises on this issue. Firstly, I tested this particular potting soil in a "bottle test" and detected no ammonia or nitrate release. Indeed, after a couple weeks, it was clear that the soil was REMOVING added nitrites and ammonia. I assume that this soil, like many others, contains nitrifying bacteria.

Diana Walstad


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Hey Diana..what do you think of humus, rather than top soil? Or I am asking for algae trouble?


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

Mrs. Walstad,

I've read your book and I think it's great. I did a 10 gallon using your advice of 1 inch potting soil and 1 inch of gravel on top. The plants grew wonderfully, no sign of nutrient deficiencies, good green growth, and no co2 added. However, when i tore it down, it was unbelievably stinky at the bottom. Is that normal? If i had left it going for more than a couple months, would it have been a problem?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Algae Grower:
> Mrs. Walstad,
> ...


I guess I'm just one of these rare people that doesn't object to dirt or stink or gas bubbling substrates. If the fish and plants are fine, then what else matters?

Diana Walstad


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## The Bishop (Mar 11, 2004)

I enjoy the natural aquatic processes as well. The stink- and dirt-lovers aren't as rare as one might think









It's the clean commercial stuff I can't stand. It's funny, but time and time again the hobby has reverted back to nature. Remember the old marine aquariums with about 15 pieces of external hardware? Or, perhaps, the advice to always use activated carbon in any tank? Now the salties are preaching refugiums and sumps, and there isn't a hobbyist I'm friends with who uses activated carbon regularly.

Nature is the way to go. And it's pretty much free!

The path of least resistance will seldom lead you beyond your doorstep.


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## galactic_blue (Feb 16, 2004)

Ms. Walstad,

I started tinkering with planted tanks almost three years ago. I used a 2"-3" substrate of 50% "standard" gravel and 50% Flourite. Plants grew well, but I had to dose the water quite a bit with fertilizers and iron (of course) tablets.

I have learned quite a bit on my own since, mostly the hard way.

It is my understanding from your posts on this "list" that Flourite is deficient in iron, but potting soil has plenty. Would I get satisfactory results with a layer of soil and a layer of my 50/50 gravel on top?

I would like to steer away from using fertilizers because I don't seem to have much luck with them. Our tap water chemistry changes quite a bit depending on the season, which does not help.


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## hubbahubbahehe (Mar 29, 2004)

galactic blue,! hi! I'm in the same boat as you dude. can't get those ferts right no matter what.... and i also have flourite.... back in the day when i used soil, man oh man i didn't have to worry about ferts and the plants were the best they ever looked..


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

> It is my understanding from your posts on this "list" that Flourite is deficient in iron, but potting soil has plenty. Would I get satisfactory results with a layer of soil and a layer of my 50/50 gravel on top?QUOTE]
> 
> I'm guessing that Fluorite has enough iron, but that it is not available (please read carefully Roger Miller's explanations and my March 2 letter in the "El Natural/Substrate Iron" folder).
> 
> ...


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