# [Wet Thumb Forum]-CO2 noise!



## jeff guest (Jul 22, 2004)

Hello tis Jeff again.
I woke up this morning and heard a noise 
coming from the CO2 tank. Is this common,
or do I have a leak? Why is there noise?
Any replies welcome.
Thank You.


----------



## jeff guest (Jul 22, 2004)

Hello tis Jeff again.
I woke up this morning and heard a noise 
coming from the CO2 tank. Is this common,
or do I have a leak? Why is there noise?
Any replies welcome.
Thank You.


----------



## FISA (Feb 17, 2005)

pressurised CO2??? .... hmm...never happened to me before....what kind of noise...

did you use both washers that came with your regulator plus use tape on the groves ???
just to be sure..


----------



## Margolis (Sep 22, 2004)

what kind of noise? I am going to have to guess that you have a leak somewhere in the union. did you use teflon tape on the threads as suggested?

but you definately only want to use ONE of the washers that come with the regulator. The second one is a spare. If you use both you probably will not get the regulator screwed on far enough to prevent leaks.


----------



## imported_BSS (Apr 14, 2004)

Spray all the connections with Windex or soapy water to see if there are any leaks. Per another thread in a separate forum, the concensus what that tape adds no value because of the nature of the threading. The seal should be completely made through compression of a single washer.


----------



## FISA (Feb 17, 2005)

hmm...when I connected my regulator to the 5 LB tank..I used one washer...somehow two wasnt working....but I used 2 washers on my 10LB tank...works great

@Margolis...btw...according to the manual that comes with the JBJ regulator....it asks you to use both washers to get a tight seal...so according to the instructions....the other one is not a spare...but it asks you to use it...


----------



## Margolis (Sep 22, 2004)

I have a milwaukee regulator and it clearly states to use only one washer, yet two are included.

and it is not the consensus not to use the teflon tape, that is just one or two peoples opinion. It is a fact that you should use teflon tape on any type of metal on metal threading.


----------



## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Margolis:
> It is a fact that you should use teflon tape on any type of metal on metal threading.


I can't imagine why that would be true. I don't know about the regulator you're using, but in both of mine the seal is a face-to-face junction between the regulator and the tank fitting. The threads don't create the seal, they just hold the seal together.

I took one of my regulators to a professional rebuilder for a modification. He didn't use teflon tape on any of the metal-to-metal threaded joints -- not even on the pipe joints where the threads are supposed to create the seal. He used a liquid sealant.

Roger Miller


----------



## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

I don't use tape either, in fact I have heard it can cause problems as the tape breaks down.


----------



## Bonsai_Swamp (Oct 14, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by FISA:
> ...according to the manual that comes with the JBJ regulator....it asks you to use both washers to get a tight seal...so according to the instructions....the other one is not a spare...but it asks you to use it...


Weird. Using a second washer in a crush seal is normally an act of desparation when the metal sealing surfaces are gouged up or malformed and you need extra material to squash into the holes. Otherwise a second washer just creates another potential leak zone between the two washers. But, if it works... After all, the point of the exercise is a leak-free connection.

Teflon tape and pipe dope have two functions. The first is to help seal the joint by "flowing" into imperfections and voids in the threads during tightening. The nut to valve threads in a CGA 320 connection are NOT a sealing joint - these threads only exist to exert force on the two brass faces squashing the the washer between them. If the washer leaks then the gas can escape from either the cylinder side or the regulator side of the nut; tape will only change where the leak appears, not whether it appears at all.

The second function is to lubricate the joint so it is easier to tighten it down smoothly to the correct torque. Tape might help if you weigh 90 lbs soaking wet and are trying to get the required 30 foot-pounds torque on that nut with one of those little 4" long stamped steel wrenches, but another option would be a longer wrench.

Tape has no purpose on this connection. A leak is going to be an issue with the washer and/or the amount of torque on the nut.


----------



## Margolis (Sep 22, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Roger Miller:
> I can't imagine why that would be true. ....... The threads don't create the seal, they just hold the seal together.
> ...


the purpose of the teflon tape on a union such as this is twofold. One is for lubrication, so no excess force needs to be applied when installing or removing the regulator. It also acts to fill any voids between the metals where air or moisture may seep in leading to corrosion.

and the tape does not break down unless the joint is taken apart.


----------



## TWood (Dec 9, 2004)

If you look closely at the nylon washer and the face of the connection, there is a circular rib on each side of the washer that fits into a circular groove machined into the face of each side of the connection. Adding a second washer would seriously compromise the connection since it would cause a rib-to-rib connection between the two washers. (Unless you really mash them in an emergency situation, in which case they better be replaced next time.) 

I emailed JBJ and asked them why they are making non-industry standard recommendations on this, as well as on the teflon tape issue. (No response yet.) The tape is superfluous and may cause trouble if bits of it break off and enter the mechansim each time you fill the tank.

My suspicion is that this is new technology to them and they just fouled up. Imagine the potential liability...

IMO

TW


----------



## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

There is so much mis-information. The facts are simple: One washer, no tape. That's the way it's been done ever since the face-face seal was invented. The seal may be an O-ring, fibre or plastic washer. The tape is pointless. The fitting is made from brass, and will not seize, so there is no need for a thread lubricant. The threads are straight, and Teflon tape will only seal a tapered pipe thread. So save the Teflon tape for the pipe fittings, and do not use it on the regulator.

If you get a leak between the valve and regulator it is either a damaged seal face, or the washer has compressed, and needs retightening. Use a twelve inch wrench and put 30 foot lbs. on it. Troubleshoot leaks with Windex.


----------



## TWood (Dec 9, 2004)

Yup.

And yet JBJ does clearly make both recommendations:

http://www.jbjlighting.com/pdfs/CO2_Manual.pdf


----------



## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

How sad. I suppose that explains the tanks I get with Teflon tape on them. I have to remove the stuff, or make the counter man get another tank. The two washers is clearly pointless. If you needed two washers placed in tandem inside the joint, then you could just glue them together and make one washer. I don't know if the washers JBJ sends are half the thickness of the standard washers, but whenever you get a replacement tank, you use only one washer!

P.S. You use a new washer each time you put the regulator on a cylinder. Your gas supplier has them.


----------

