# neons vs cardinals



## holocron (May 29, 2005)

hello,

I'm curious to find out why the cardinal takes the cake over the neon tetra in most planted scapes you see out there. Is it just the red stripe? I find neons have almost a tri-coloured appearance (red, blue and white) and the blue stripe stands out more.

please post opinions...


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## TWood (Dec 9, 2004)

It's my understanding that the entire global Neon breeding supply chain is infected with Neon disease and there is no hope that it will ever be cured short of a wholesale flushing of the systems involved. Not likely. Cardinals are wild caught and don't bring that with them. 

TW


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## holocron (May 29, 2005)

wow, i didn't know all cardinals were wilds....

are cardinals tighter schoolers like the rummynose or are they similar in that respect to the neon?


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## Yeaulman (Jun 23, 2005)

One thing to mention about cardinals is that they are so sensitive to water conditions. Everything must be stable. We have a supplier here in town that gets his neons from the wild also.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

I guess I hadn't really thought about it before, but I have to order everything, so it sort of seems like a logical choice to opt for the more expensive Cardinals since I have to pay $35 for shipping anyway.

I hadn't heard that before about _all_ neons having NTD. That seems highly unlikely, but I suppose anything is possible.


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## ranmasatome (Aug 5, 2005)

Dont think ALL cardinals are wild caught. There have been people breeding it here for ages already.


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## cyndayco (Aug 30, 2005)

NTD is so named because neon tetras were first to be diagnosed with this illness. But cardinals, angelfishes and a whole bunch of other species can catch it just the same.

Cardinals do school better than neons because they are more likely to be wild. (I have heard that rummy noses school better, but my rummies are not that much better at it than my cardinals. They're more skittish, too.)

I have both neons and cardinals. Because of their larger size and the near absense of white/silver coloration, cardinals are simply more striking in appearance. Longer red stripes against longer blue stripes just look more vivid.


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## trckrunrmike (Jan 31, 2005)

If you're on a budget, go with the neons. 

I really don't care if they're neons or cardinals, the only difference is the price for me. Cardinals always seem to be "bloody" to me and neons as "silver".


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## hedson_25 (Sep 20, 2005)

here where i live cardinals are $2.50 usd each and neon is $00.50 cents so there is big difference between them.

i prefer neon they are smaller and i like the blue stripe shining in darkness.


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## cyndayco (Aug 30, 2005)

Would you believe that in my neck of the woods (Asia), cardinals go for $1 and neon tetras, for $0.17?


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## Yeaulman (Jun 23, 2005)

Up here in my neck of the woods in Canada we have Cardinals for $4.89 and Neons from $1.77 to $4.45


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## trckrunrmike (Jan 31, 2005)

cyndayco said:


> Would you believe that in my neck of the woods (Asia), cardinals go for $1 and neon tetras, for $0.17?


In Hong Kong they have 30 small cardinals for $5


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## cyndayco (Aug 30, 2005)

Wow, what other fish species is cheap there? I'm spending Halloween there.

(Sorry for hijacking the post.)


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## trckrunrmike (Jan 31, 2005)

Everything in HK is cheap except for the ADA products. Everything you can imagine in the hobby is there. Eheim canisters are about $50 US. Glass diffusers $5. Lots and lots of algae free planted tanks. Its one of the hotbeds of aquariums. Also 2 juvenile discus for $15. All rare plants are found on one street. The street is located in Mong Kok. Yea I wish I lived there too.


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

trckrunrmike said:


> Everything in HK is cheap except for the ADA products. Everything you can imagine in the hobby is there. Eheim canisters are about $50 US. Glass diffusers $5. Lots and lots of algae free planted tanks. Its one of the hotbeds of aquariums. Also 2 juvenile discus for $15. All rare plants are found on one street. The street is located in Mong Kok. Yea I wish I lived there too.


And that's why I'm plannng on moving to Malaysia...! (I wish!)


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## cyndayco (Aug 30, 2005)

I am so shopping! :grin:


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

The reason people favor Cardinals is that they are easier to acclimate as opposed to Neons who are very sensitive during that process and that's when they most likely die of NTD. Cardinals are longer and bulkier than Neons and thus they can't fall prey to Angelfish and Discus. Cardinals have a longer/wider red band than Neons, the red band of Neons starts towards the end.

As for me, I still like Neon's more. I guess it's because they're tri-colored and they're not as bulky.


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## ringram (Jan 10, 2005)

around here in California (Northern), I see usually see neons between $0.99 - $2 and cardinals anywhere from $1.99 - 3.99 or so.


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## microgeophagus (Sep 28, 2005)

ranmasatome said:


> Dont think ALL cardinals are wild caught. There have been people breeding it here for ages already.


My lfs gives me two options when I ask for cardinals. I can get wild caughts for $20 a dozen or pond bred and raised for $3 a piece. I have bought the wilds and had a 50% mortality rate. I have yet to try the pond breds.


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## William (Nov 16, 2004)

Just too clear things up here. Neon’s get NTD Cardinals do not, the fish is immune to the disease. 

Most Cardinal stock is from Florida. Wild Cardinals are $$$. 

One rarely sees wild neon stock. Most available are from Florida or the Far East and both are horrible. I often read people confusing NTD with bad genetics. It is very unlikely that the end consumer is going to see the ravages of NTD which produces a very swift demise (24 hours). More often then not the hobbyist is seeing inbred neon’s that slowly succumb to the practice. 

Simulans (green tetra/false neon) are wild caught and seem less susceptible to NTD, IME. Once acclimated Simulans are a great substitute for neon’s if you are looking for a blue/red schooler smaller then a Cardinal. 

Best regards,

William


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

hi guys sorry to bring this topic up again,

cardinals are favoured over neons overhere simply because it's resistant [not immune to NTD] IME. neons which may harbour NTD[incurable] are not desirable as angel fish [expensive altums too] are susceptible to it among others. 
it's rather cheap here compared to what you guys are paying. 100 cardinals for ~USD50, neons go for ~15USD. i however prefer simulans for it's subtle colour, looks great in planted tanks... but these fellas go for about ~75USD/100.
BTW cardinals are bred in Czech Republic and the Far East for some time now...


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

Many aquarium stores in my area don't even carry cardinals because of their high mortality rate. I just bought 10 cardinals for $18 from my LFS and within two days I lost 2 of them. The LFS told me the supplier keeps them in RO water. This is probably a bad thing because once they are put in regular water they probably aren't as resistant to certain things in the water. I have no problem acclimating any other sensitive tetra or fish, but the cardinals always give me problems.


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

houseofcards said:


> Many aquarium stores in my area don't even carry cardinals because of their high mortality rate. I just bought 10 cardinals for $18 from my LFS and within two days I lost 2 of them. The LFS told me the supplier keeps them in RO water. This is probably a bad thing because once they are put in regular water they probably aren't as resistant to certain things in the water. I have no problem acclimating any other sensitive tetra or fish, but the cardinals always give me problems.


wow, that expensive huh, i have a guy here who's selling it for USD0.48 each.
ok but you guys get other stuff much cheaper than people here...

RO huh? dripping water for new fellas does get them acclimatized somewhat before putting into quarantine tank. but this only the second time i've heard cardinals being weaker than neons...


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## redcobra (Feb 20, 2005)

*Disappearing Cardinals!*



standoyo said:


> wow, that expensive huh, i have a guy here who's selling it for USD0.48 each.
> ok but you guys get other stuff much cheaper than people here...
> 
> RO huh? dripping water for new fellas does get them acclimatized somewhat before putting into quarantine tank. but this only the second time i've heard cardinals being weaker than neons...


I have problems with cardinals as well! I have a 55 gal planted tank. Mostly small schooling fish; rummy nose; serpae tetras; etc. I buy 6-8 cards and then watch them "disappear"! One a day usually; I am now down to two cards. Water quality and pH etc' is fine. I can't find the "corpses". Just how sensitive are these fish? I have two black neons and just recently purchased 5 more. Those first two black neons are some of my oldest fish; about 3 to 4 years old and are doing great. Why am I losing cards? Any tips would be appreciated! Thanx!


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## Error (Apr 16, 2004)

redcobra said:


> I have problems with cardinals as well! I have a 55 gal planted tank. Mostly small schooling fish; rummy nose; serpae tetras; etc. I buy 6-8 cards and then watch them "disappear"! One a day usually; I am now down to two cards. Water quality and pH etc' is fine. I can't find the "corpses". Just how sensitive are these fish? I have two black neons and just recently purchased 5 more. Those first two black neons are some of my oldest fish; about 3 to 4 years old and are doing great. Why am I losing cards? Any tips would be appreciated! Thanx!


Forgive me, but I have to ask the obvious questions first:

Are there fish in your tank large enough (or almost large enough) to eat them?

Is your source selling you wild-caught or captive bred cardinals?

Are you doing weekly water changes?


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

In the past, I've had a problem with disappearing Neons, and the source was always another fish having a good dinner. 
I think fish like Cards and Neons are more prone to it because of their more prominant colors.

Otherwise, they just may not be adjusting to your water, then dying, and scavengers in the tank are eating them.


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## redcobra (Feb 20, 2005)

Error said:


> Forgive me, but I have to ask the obvious questions first:
> 
> Are there fish in your tank large enough (or almost large enough) to eat them?
> 
> ...


Yes; I am doing weekly water changes; approx 10 gals plus evaporation.
Ph and Nitrates are neutral or very close to it. Nitrates around 10
Largest fish I have are two Plecos; approx 5 or 6 inches in size.
Other than that; all fish are tetras; rummy nose,black neons,serpae tetras;etc.
Don't know if they are wild or captive. Should I insist on either?
Thanx!


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## Error (Apr 16, 2004)

redcobra said:


> Yes; I am doing weekly water changes; approx 10 gals plus evaporation.
> Ph and Nitrates are neutral or very close to it. Nitrates around 10
> Largest fish I have are two Plecos; approx 5 or 6 inches in size.
> Other than that; all fish are tetras; rummy nose,black neons,serpae tetras;etc.
> ...


In that case, I imagine JanS has it with "Otherwise, they just may not be adjusting to your water, then dying, and scavengers in the tank are eating them."


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