# My GDA battle



## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

So I decided to take the Barr approach to fighting my GDA. I've let the tank sit for over a month. Rather than the algae turning brown and flaking off, it all turned into a green spot type algae. Maybe it turned brown and died and the green spot algae grew over it? When I scrapped it off, the GDA was very hard to scrape off. Scrapping off the top layer I think revealed the brown dead GDA. I used both a diatom filter and UV filter to take care of any GDA that could be free floating. Now I need to wait a week to see if it comes back.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

It appears to me that there are two ways (at least) for fighting GDA. One is the "life cycle" way - let it grow unmolested for 2-3 weeks, then scrape if off. Another is the intensive care method - very carefully wipe it off, keeping as near zero of it from going into the water as is possible, and do this every day for 3 or 4 days, always followed by a big water change, followed by 1.5X dose of post water change Excel and fertilizer dosing. My last bout, just finished a week ago I did both, with a 3 day blackout in between them. So far, knock on wood, no green haze has returned.


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

Well it came back. Usually the GDA appears lightly by Wednesday. This time it appeared on Friday. Did the same things, cleaning with UV and diatom filter. We'll see what happens.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

What is your lighting period and nutrient levels? I've never described the approach you described, but I did get rid of it by fixing those issues.


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

I found higher levels of nitrate seemed to result in less GDA.. but I have never been able to stop it entirely.. I figure it's part of life in the hobby.. it's the only algae I never have been able to stop.. so I just scrape it off every couple weeks.

I tried the Barr method.. didn't work at all. But it has definitely worked for some folks..

The thing with Tom's method is it doesn't make any sense. I understand about letting it mature, and slough off the glass after it's gone through its life cycle, but how in the world is that supposed to stop other spores that settle into the water a week, a month or a year later? Nobody has explained that part. It seems that the GDA would have to 'mark its territory' in some way so other younger spores looking for a place to set up shop would somehow know not to pick your glass as a home. If someone can explain that part lay it on me..


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

> I figure it's part of life in the hobby..


Not at all. Once you get a handle on it, it's easy to get rid of and prevent. In my experience, an excessive lighting period and either too much or too little nitrate can bring it on.


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## AMP (Nov 11, 2006)

Cavan Allen said:


> Not at all. Once you get a handle on it, it's easy to get rid of and prevent. In my experience, an excessive lighting period and either too much or too little nitrate can bring it on.


Interesting Theory, I do not have it as bad as in the Picture above, But I do have a Light tinge in the tank, Bi Weekly Water Changes for me are helping it plus scraping it off the tank helps control it, But does not get rid of it.

The Double Dosing of Excel helps as well, I have talked with three aquatic Plant persons who have successful Fully Planted tanks, and I have to agree with the above Light Management seems to be the key to controlling it as well as with the regime I have been doing.

The best analogy I got was just as in Cycling the tank, Once it is established everything comes to life 

Keep trying different things here that others have stated, It comes around, I am glad I made the chioce to go Planted, It has got to be the best reward one can have to see a tank flourishing with Life.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Don't all algae respond to external conditions as far as when their spores start to grow is concerned? If so, the algae spores that settle in the tank from various sources won't bloom unless they experience the right external conditions, such as ammonia increases, CO2 fluctuations, extra bright or long light periods, etc. Maybe that is part of the reason why the let-it-alone method can work for GDA.


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

I've been in the hobby long enough to know that GDA is not just 
something you have to live with in a tank, it has to do with something I'm 
doing wrong. I've had tanks were I just left them alone and didn't have 
signs of GDA for a month. I know my dosing is close because there is no 
sign of any other algae. So there are a couple of options to go with,

I can dose less and assume that what I'm adding to the tank is causing 
the algae.

I can dose more and assume that ammonia is causing the algae. This is 
because one of the things that I am dosing is the limiting factor. By 
dosing more, then plants are using up more ammonia and less is 
available to the algae. I mean, isn't this how reef systems operate, less 
algae because the Corals take up all the nutrients in the water?

Third, I can play around with the ratios of the Macros and Micros I'm 
dosing.

The other thing I haven't looked into is how much diffused lighting 
(PC's) compared to point source lighting (MH) has to do with GDA. All my 
GDA appears on the glass, is this because the reflected light of 
diffused lighting falls the most on the tank sides?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I think the GDA spores just prefer flat shiny surfaces, but when I have had it the worst, it also was growing on everything in the tank. Mine seems to be "cured" for now, but I still get slow growing GSA, mostly where the light is most intense on the glass.


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## Christian_rubilar (Jul 21, 2005)

A friend of mine had GDA for 6 month and the Barr method didn´t work. I tested his water with analytical test and Po4 was 4 and there was also a small Ca umbalance (I think it was about 6:1, i can´t remember). 
He solved with the MDC method: 50% water change to decrease Po4, and he added every day kno3 until it disappeared and a small amount of GSA apperars (the MDC works looking for GSA to control others algaes, the post about this is in spanish)


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Christian_rubilar said:


> A friend of mine had GDA for 6 month and the Barr method didn´t work. I tested his water with analytical test and Po4 was 4 and there was also a small Ca umbalance (I think it was about 6:1, i can´t remember).
> He solved with the MDC method: 50% water change to decrease Po4, and he added every day kno3 until it disappeared and a small amount of GSA apperars (the MDC works looking for GSA to control others algaes, the post about this is in spanish)


Do you have a link that explains the "MDC" method, preferably in English? If it is in Spanish, could someone translate it? I think Google will automatically translate such websites but first you need to know how to get Google to find it. All I can find on Google for "MDC" refers to the Missouri Department of Conservation. Is that what you mean?


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## Christian_rubilar (Jul 21, 2005)

hoppycalif said:


> Do you have a link that explains the "MDC" method, preferably in English? If it is in Spanish, could someone translate it? I think Google will automatically translate such websites but first you need to know how to get Google to find it. All I can find on Google for "MDC" refers to the Missouri Department of Conservation. Is that what you mean?


No, unfortunately it is in Spanish only. I will translate it ASAP. It´s long, so i will delay some.
MDC means The "method of controlled imbalance" that in spanish is "método de los desequilibrios controlados".
The link is:
Dr. Pez - Panel de Mensajes - (debate)Propuesta de método de control de algas + fertilizado


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## bigtroutz (Nov 17, 2006)

Christian_rubilar said:


> No, unfortunately this in Spanish only. I will translate it ASAP
> MDC means The "method of controlled imbalance" that in spanish is "método de los desequilibrios controlados".
> You can find it in these links:
> Dr. Pez - Panel de Mensajes - (debate)Propuesta de método de control de algas + fertilizado


here is google's translation url in the meantime. it might actually be useful enough although google's idiomatic phrases are always funky 

Translated version of http://www.drpez.net/panel/showthread.php?t=154436


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## Christian_rubilar (Jul 21, 2005)

Well, i will translate what google did´t.
Suspicaz: smart
Perder de vista: to be blind about something
Coadyudantes: secondary, not a key item, something that helps but it is not the key one
Ciclado: means that there is a proper nitrobacter colony
nonvidente: blind man
averiguarlo: find out
seaweed green poin: means GSA
we do not have form to know: Means: "there´s no way to know"
pareceria: seems
descanza: stay 
those you would estaran in: they will be
cut in dry: stop at once


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Also:
Seaweed= algae
Tom Barr= she (hehehehe!)


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## Freemann (Mar 19, 2004)

Is there a chance to have this thread tranlated from someone?
It is virtually unreadable from Google, and I had to copy and paste most of the threads cause after part of the text in each page, babel stops translating.
It looks really interesting.


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## Christian_rubilar (Jul 21, 2005)

Well, give me a few weeks. I´ll find somebody to do it.


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## Freemann (Mar 19, 2004)

Thanks


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I tried to read the google translation, and was able, I think, to understand the basic method being used. It appears to be another effort to use ratios of the nutrients, seeking the optimum ratios. So far I haven't seen any evidence that such methods work, but I still would like to be able to read this article without struggling through the google mistranslations. Once I see the Redfield ratio mentioned I usually stop reading, but I'll withhold my skepticism this time.


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## Christian_rubilar (Jul 21, 2005)

Thanks so much for your interest in my paper.
I truly appreciate it.
I am currently working on producing an accurate translation of my article.
The basic concept behind my method seeks to emply GSA to assess the current situation. From that preliminary conclusion, the objective is to isolate key variables that prompt the emergence of each algae. The purpose of this isolation is to manipulate the identified variables. My thesis is that given optimal conditions for the emergence of GSA, other algae will not survive. 
This leads me to conclude that there should be an imbalance on GSA so as to, later on, correct it.
In fact, I quote the redfield ratio in order to criticize it, google may convey some misunderstandings


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

A little update on the tank. I've tried everything suggested to deal with the GDA. Lights are down to 8 hours a day and the pendant is now 10" from the surface of the water. So I bought some algae fix and I am going to nuke the tank. If the algae fix actually deals with the GDA, then when I stop using it, if the GDA returns, then it must be something wrong with my dosing schedule.


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## Christian_rubilar (Jul 21, 2005)

Check your Po4 and Ca level. A good water change and 3 ppm Kno3 daily dosing usually finish them.


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## Skelley (Mar 4, 2006)

Careful with the AlgaeFix. I used it once and it killed a few of my fish, even with a normal dose.


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

Well no luck the first week. I'm hoping the algae fix takes a couple of weeks to kick in, otherwise this algae is indistructable.


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## Christian_rubilar (Jul 21, 2005)

No, it isn´t. If you low down your Po4 and balances Ca:Mg desappears with no difficulty.


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## erijnal (Apr 5, 2006)

Greg, how many otos do you have in your tank? I only had one in my 10 gallon tank, and as soon as he died (left too big an algae wafer in the tank too long), I'm starting to get what looks like the beginnings of GDA.

Maybe otos are an answer?


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

Yeah, I've read that. That Ottos and Nerite snails help. GDA doesn't make it through digestion. I'm still hoping that the algae fix kicks in. I've lowered the Po4, but I thought it was making it worst (find out on friday). I don't know if I personally buy into the Mg/Ca ratio stuff. Everything else in the tank is doing great. I mean I've never had so little of the other algaes ever.


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## apistaeasy (Jul 16, 2004)

Have you read about my GDA battle?

I won.


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

Finally, first week with out GDA. Thanks for the link apistaeasy. I've tried the diligent cleaning method without much luck. I didn't go so far as removing all the tank hard scape and bleaching the plants (which in my case would be a real pain, those rocks have slowly ended up in those positions). This was the second week using algaefix. The only other changes I made from recommendations from other people are the following. Dosing schedule was
Po4- .5 ppm every other day
No3- 4 ppm every other day
Flourish - 5 mL every other day
Changed to 
Po4- .25 ppm every other day
No3- 2 ppm every other day
Flourish- 3 mL every other day
Don't really think such a little change does anything personally. I set the Co2 to come on two hours before the lights come on. Maybe the algae was taking advantage of the light early on as the Co2 ramped up? I also replaced the filter floss when I did a good clean, assuming lots of GDA could build up in the floss. I'm going to run the algaefix for a couple more weeks and then see how it goes from there.

My cherry shrimp are being very patient during the whole process,


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## DJKronik57 (Apr 17, 2006)

I do notice Otocinclus fish eat GDA. I've been dealing with a bad case of it as well and I can see tiny little "bite mark" trails in it from where the Otos have eaten it (I don't have snails so I know it's them). I'm not sure how effective they are at removing all of it though. I have 3 in my 29 gallon and 2 in my 20 gallon and neither tank is GDA free.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

DJKronik57 said:


> I do notice Otocinclus fish eat GDA. I've been dealing with a bad case of it as well and I can see tiny little "bite mark" trails in it from where the Otos have eaten it (I don't have snails so I know it's them). I'm not sure how effective they are at removing all of it though. I have 3 in my 29 gallon and 2 in my 20 gallon and neither tank is GDA free.


Try an experiment. When you have a tank covered with GDA - trust me I have had that far too many times - scrape it all off, save the scrapings in a bowl (a big one, of course). Then compare that mound with the size of an oto. Divide. That gives a rough idea about the number of otos needed to clear the glass. It isn't a small number.


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

So after the discussions on Tom's board, I'm wondering how much of my problem was Co2 related. Maybe rather than recommending the wait method, we should also make sure people are running Co2 a couple hours before the lights turn on. Start experimenting with that to see if it is an issue. I've noticed stunting on the tips of my stems, and never bought into the Ca deficiency issues. Maybe this was my problem?


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## erijnal (Apr 5, 2006)

updates?


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

So far I am pretty happhy with what extending the Co2 "on" time did to get rid of GDA. I've been playing around with things, I moved the pendant back down. My glosso was growing vertical. I'm going to be switching over to MH in a couple of weeks, so that is going to throw things off.

The GDA is not compeletly gone. I get a little in spots up near the light. But it is not a carpet of GDA by wed. anymore. I'm going to adjust my pH controller to turn the CO2 on around 7 am when daylight hits my tank. And I've got a couple of new venturi models in the mail and I'm going to be drilling bigger holes to experiment with Co2 buble dispertion in the tank. I think the moral of the story is to over do things with Co2 rather than conserving Co2.

I've been using Excel for the last three weeks. All of my BBA is completely gone. I've haven't had the tank so algae free in a long time. My anubias look really good. Now its just about getting things to grow properly. My Rotala green isn't soo bushy and my glosso is growing up, so lowering the pendant should help. I'm even thinking about turning all four bulbs on the tek fixture again.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

So smaller pH fluctuations fixed the problem?


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

I would say making sure the Co2 is at 30 ppm when the lights come on helped. The pH controller comes on two hours before the lights do and off an hour after the lights turn off.


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