# Stem rot at the base



## tj9582 (Aug 4, 2007)

My NPT has been for the most part quite successful, with one rather notable issue. Most of the stem plants I put in seem to melt away at the base where they are planted. The rest of the plant grows fine, and in fact a number of them continue on happily once they've become unmoored, but it certainly doesn't look right. My vals, sword, and crypts don't seem bothered at all.

Any idea what might be causing this? I suspect that my choice of cheap pea gravel from the hardware store to put over my soil was a mistake. If so, is there any way to fix this without tearing the entire tank apart and starting over?


----------



## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

What kinds of stem plants are you trying to grow? Some, like hornwort, don't grow roots. They are purely floating plants.

Bill


----------



## tj9582 (Aug 4, 2007)

The ones that seem to be having trouble are the water wysteria, stargrass (Heteranthera zosterifolia), hygrophila and cabomba. Whatever it is doesn't seem to be bothering the anacharis when I plant it.


----------



## StevenLeeds (Jul 21, 2007)

I had the same problem with Wisteria in plain gravel. I found that I was burying too much of the stem. It also seemed to happen when I buried clippings that had no roots already growing. I would rot up to where the next root was growing. If I planted it after it rotted to that point not too deep in the gravel did and is doing fine now.

I've found that Water Sprite does prett much the same thing.

Cheers,
Steven


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

tj9582 said:


> My vals, sword, and crypts don't seem bothered at all.
> 
> Any idea what might be causing this? I suspect that my choice of cheap pea gravel from the hardware store to put over my soil was a mistake. If so, is there any way to fix this without tearing the entire tank apart and starting over?


I don't think its the gravel. Stem plants are fragile in an NPT. Because most can't use bicarbonates (Anacharis is the exception), they're more CO2-limited than the other plants. Their weak root system can't protect them from substrate toxins (mainly H2S).

I can get good growth of some stem plants (e.g., Rotalia indica, B. monnieri), but frankly, many (Cabomba, in particular) didn't last long in my tanks.

There's nothing wrong with your tank or substrate, in my opinion. You may have to accept that you will never get good growth of every plant you put in your tank. Then again, your substrate may become more hospitable to stem plants with time. I'd enjoy your tank and try again later.


----------



## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

I find it strange that some people can grow specific plants well whereas others have difficulties. I always thought that if it's an easy plant to grow, then people wouldn't have any problems growing them in their tanks but I was obviously wrong.

Could things like the GH/KH have anything to do with how well plants will grow?

Ms. Walstad, exactly how long does your Cabomba last in your tanks? I've been reading up a lot on this plant and from what I've read, it doesn't grow well outside of the "ideal" parameters(ph, gh, etc.) yet my water is far from what it prefers yet I've got a ton of new lateral shoots forming on the stems.


----------



## tj9582 (Aug 4, 2007)

So perhaps it is the rotting of the soil that is killing the bottom portions of my plants? Since they clearly don't mind my water parameters, do you think setting up portions of the substrate as soil-free might be enough to get the more picky stems growing in place?


----------



## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Red_Rose said:


> I find it strange that some people can grow specific plants well whereas others have difficulties. I always thought that if it's an easy plant to grow, then people wouldn't have any problems growing them in their tanks but I was obviously wrong.
> 
> Could things like the GH/KH have anything to do with how well plants will grow?
> 
> Ms. Walstad, exactly how long does your Cabomba last in your tanks? I've been reading up a lot on this plant and from what I've read, it doesn't grow well outside of the "ideal" parameters(ph, gh, etc.) yet my water is far from what it prefers yet I've got a ton of new lateral shoots forming on the stems.


I don't know why some people can grow certain plans while others, with apparently similar environments, aren't as successful. A karma thing?

For example, I could never get H. polysperma to grow. Then I discovered Ms. Walstad and Tom Barr, and now that plant, and others, are growing too well and need too much pruning.

My H. polysperma put down a lot of roots, and grow both vertically and horizontally along the bottom, invading the space of other plants.

On the other hand, I have never been able to grow bacopa or cabomba. Maybe it's time to try them again.

Bill


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Red_Rose said:


> I find it strange that some people can grow specific plants well whereas others have difficulties. I always thought that if it's an easy plant to grow, then people wouldn't have any problems growing them in their tanks but I was obviously wrong.
> 
> Could things like the GH/KH have anything to do with how well plants will grow?
> 
> Ms. Walstad, exactly how long does your Cabomba last in your tanks? I've been reading up a lot on this plant and from what I've read, it doesn't grow well outside of the "ideal" parameters(ph, gh, etc.) yet my water is far from what it prefers yet I've got a ton of new lateral shoots forming on the stems.


I'm afraid I haven't been very scientific about determining which plants will grow, which ones won't, and how long they last in my tanks. Camboma, a softwater stem plant, probably needs much more CO2 than my tanks normally provide.

GH/KH would most certainly influence plant growth. GH reflects water calcium and maganesium, which are two major nutrients. Moreover, calcium can influence micronutrient nutrition and metal toxicity (my book, pp 14, 114) KH affects pH and reflects the water's bicarbonate concentration; those plants that can use bicarbonates as their carbon source do better in alkaline (i.e., high KH) water than those that can't use bicarbonates.

Many, many factors... lighting, DOC, temperature, # of fish, GH/KH, pH, neighboring plant species, soil type, micronutrients, water movement, and heavy metals.

To keep it simple, I just add a lot of plant species.


----------



## Mr Fishies (Apr 9, 2006)

tj9582 said:


> So perhaps it is the rotting of the soil that is killing the bottom portions of my plants? Since they clearly don't mind my water parameters, do you think setting up portions of the substrate as soil-free might be enough to get the more picky stems growing in place?


I had this same problem when I first set up my 50G El Natural. I have L. repens that would rot at the base when I first started the tank. Before that would happen, it would root itself down with adventitious roots, so they looked as if they were hovering above the soil. Cabomba on the other hand, just turned yellow, fell apart and generally messed things up - I gave up on it.

Sometime within the first 6 months or so, this stopped being a problem. Perhaps as you suggest, your soil has something to do with this since freshly submerged soil goes through a bit of a "metamorphosis" at first.

As Diana said, use lots of different plants. If one is not working, move on and try another. There's only frustration ahead if you fight it.

Ian


----------



## tj9582 (Aug 4, 2007)

The problem with the cabomba is that's taunting me. It is growing extremely quickly, it just refuses to stay in the ground. Plus, purple is my wife's favorite color, and the purple cabomba was the closest I could find to a purple plant.

The Brazilian pennywort is similarly teasing me, which bothers me because I really like, and was rather hoping to make it a significant part of the tank.

Were they rotting away altogether (which my glossostigma and banana plants seem to have done) I'd be more willing to just write them off, but they're so close to doing well. Maybe I'll just let them float for a while and try replanting periodically.


----------

