# Guppies Dieing



## SuarezJuan (Feb 19, 2007)

I recently set up a new tank (55g) with CO2, and moved my guppies into the new tank after it was set up for a week. I included my old filter, for the good bacteria and had a few decorations from my old tank in the new tank for the same reason before the fish were moved, so the water is not the issue.
I believe the CO2 is killing off my fish from PH change, could anyone give me advice on what I should do? Is it that guppies aren't strong enough for a CO2 tank? I've had 4 fish die in the last week, and before that not 1 guppy has died in the last 6-9 months. 
Thanks.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Guppies are extremely hardy. Did you use a dechlorinator for the water to eliminate any chlorine or chloramine? The pH change from injecting CO2 won't harm the fish, but if you go too high in CO2 it may suffocate them. Are you using a drop checker to be sure the CO2 level is ok? Also, all fish are stressed by a move, from netting them, from leaving them in a small container for awhile, from introducing them to the new tank, etc. So, sometimes fish which are near the end of their life spans or otherwise weaker than normal will not survive a move.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

What are the symptoms? Are there any signs of growths on their bodies?


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## SuarezJuan (Feb 19, 2007)

I did have the tank running for a week before placing them inside, I use amquel to dechlorinate the water. I think its possible about them suffocating because the plants have not been set up in the tank for a long enough periodto make enough O2, I know that at night they switch and use O2.
There are absolutely no symptoms on the fish; they die over night. Always in the morning is when they pass away, with no sign of weakness the night before. Do you guys recommend any other fish that would be compatible with guppies?
I will be adding more plants to my tank this weekend, so hopefully the dieing will stop once I have more plants making O2.

Thanks,


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Before the lights come on in the morning, check the guppies and see if they are all up at the surface. When guppies sleep or whatever they do when it is dark, many of them rest on the bottom. if none are doing that and they are all up at the surface, then there is a low O2 or high CO2 problem.


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## SuarezJuan (Feb 19, 2007)

Thanks A lot, that is good advice. I will check tommorow morning.


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## SuarezJuan (Feb 19, 2007)

HeyPK said:


> Before the lights come on in the morning, check the guppies and see if they are all up at the surface. When guppies sleep or whatever they do when it is dark, many of them rest on the bottom. if none are doing that and they are all up at the surface, then there is a low O2 or high CO2 problem.


 I checked this morning and all my fish were scattered throughout the tank; so I am assuming the o2 is good enough. When I came home from work at about 7 I found my favorite fish dead. It was a male who was about 2 1/4 inch long with his tail, he was the most bad-ass looking fancy guppy. His tail grew enormous over the last year and a half that I've had him. And now he's dead! It pissed me off to the point that I think I'm going to switch my tank species completely. Possibly Angel-Fish with Rain-bow fish, or angel fish mixed with some other large growing fish.

Any advice? I have some tabs for disease's, but my fish show absolutely no symptoms. I found my fish dead today with absolutely nothing wrong with him, he was simply on the bottom of the fish tank. I'm afraid to use tabs since it will also eliminate the beneficial bacteria.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Sorry about your losses.

Guppies really aren't the hardy fish they used to be with all of the selective breeding, so perhaps just the change to the tank with slightly different conditions was to blame. I really doubt there's anything wrong with your water quality, or them having any sort of disease, but sometimes with fish like that, the smallest change can be traumatic to them.

As for switching your tank inhabitants, a few Angels would be nice, but since a 55 isn't that big, you might want to make them the centerpiece of the tank, and get some others that are smaller to fill in.

In my 55, I have two large Angels, a large school of Rummynoses, some Cory's and a Peckotia, and it's very nicely balanced that way (at least IMO  )
Of course tastes vary, but something along those stocking lines would be appropriate for a tank that size.


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## SuarezJuan (Feb 19, 2007)

JanS said:


> Sorry about your losses.
> 
> Guppies really aren't the hardy fish they used to be with all of the selective breeding, so perhaps just the change to the tank with slightly different conditions was to blame. I really doubt there's anything wrong with your water quality, or them having any sort of disease, but sometimes with fish like that, the smallest change can be traumatic to them.
> 
> ...


So Angelfish would be compatible with Guppies? I had my water tested and everything is fine, except for above average Iron; which also may be a factor.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

The Angelfish would more than likely be okay with adult Guppies, but they would almost certainly chow the fry down, so if you're still wanting Guppy fry, you wouldn't want to mix them in the same tank.


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## lenosquid (Oct 9, 2006)

I am also having issues with my guppies dying. I just had an endler die tonight. No growth. Just dead. All my tetras from the beginning are just fine, but about 10 guppies so far have died in 6 months. I do weekly water changes. I have c02 below 40ppm. Nitrates and phosphates were a little high due to overdosing but I have dealt with that and the levels are relatively low. 

These guppies wouldn't be dying because of the lack of salt in the water would they? Temp is around 25 C and pH is around 6.7. I feed them once a day... I just cant figure it out! help. I will measure my other levels this week and let you guys know. If there is anything that is a normal situation for dying guppies let me know. Thanks


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

lenosquid said:


> I am also having issues with my guppies dying. I just had an endler die tonight. No growth. Just dead. All my tetras from the beginning are just fine, but about 10 guppies so far have died in 6 months. I do weekly water changes. I have c02 below 40ppm. Nitrates and phosphates were a little high due to overdosing but I have dealt with that and the levels are relatively low.
> 
> These guppies wouldn't be dying because of the lack of salt in the water would they? Temp is around 25 C and pH is around 6.7. I feed them once a day... I just cant figure it out! help. I will measure my other levels this week and let you guys know. If there is anything that is a normal situation for dying guppies let me know. Thanks


Are we talking about cardinals and neons? Guppies are tough fish, but they usually expire after three years. Why are you dosing 40 ppm of CO2 when 20 ppm will do the job? That said, CO2 is not the issue. If other fish in the tank are doing okay, then you could have a bunch of genetically inferior guppies. These guys breed like rats. Unfortunately, a lot of guppies at many LFS do not look very healthy.

Guppies do not need salt to remain healthy.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

furballi said:


> Unfortunately, a lot of guppies at many LFS do not look very healthy.


That is the big problem these days making Guppies reputation as being hardy a thing of the past. There's way too much inbreeding going on to get the fancy lines, and the toughness gets bred out of them. It's too bad, but I know lots of experienced fishkeepers who can breed some of the most delicate fish, but when it comes to fancy Guppies, it's another story.


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## lenosquid (Oct 9, 2006)

so are guppies that last 3 months common? Because i seem to have that issue. Unless of course they are already old from the LFS. But I have had some "teenage" guppies that have been born in my tank and have died after a few months. 

All my tetras (neon and glow), my pleco and my clown loach, and even my shrimp all are doing fine.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

It appears that you may have a genetic issue with the guppies. New babies should live to full adult. I used to have a guppy tank in the early 80s. They breed like crazy, even though I only change the water once a quarter. I only keep the good looking baby guppies. All grow up to full-size adults.


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## lenosquid (Oct 9, 2006)

Another one of the female endler guppies was a the top of my tank ready to die when I got home from work. Yesterday I saw her pretty large and ready to give birth. Is it common for guppy females to die after giving birth? 

Here are my stats on the tank right now:
ph: 6.6
ammonia and nitrite: 0
kh: 5
GH: 14
nitrate: 10 ppm
phoshpate: 5 ppm

I dont see how this could cause my guppies to die. It looks like I will be buying fish other than guppies from now on. 

Are there any livebearers that are not death prone ?


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## bigtroutz (Nov 17, 2006)

lenosquid said:


> Another one of the female endler guppies was a the top of my tank ready to die when I got home from work. Yesterday I saw her pretty large and ready to give birth. Is it common for guppy females to die after giving birth?
> 
> Are there any livebearers that are not death prone ?


Judging from my results with Platties, if the variety has lots of inbreeding (which is actually pretty *hard to prevent*), then death soon after giving birth is very common. However, I have not seen them die within hours of giving birth, more like a week or 2 or even longer.

It sounds like you should dissect one of the dead guppies and look for MB (fish TB)

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fish-for-the-planted-aquarium/16750-diseased-fish.html


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

Yes, not uncommon for some weak guppies to die after giving birth. Conditioning them with live food may help.


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## lenosquid (Oct 9, 2006)

right now I am feeding frozen daphnia, spirulina flakes, and frozen brine shrimp. what live food would you suggest? Live daphnia? 

I am almost ready to quit on the guppies. I dont think my water params are bad or harmful in any way so it looks like I have some weak strains of guppies. My other male endler didn't look too good last night either. 

What other livebearers are more prone to live longer?


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

lenosquid said:


> right now I am feeding frozen daphnia, spirulina flakes, and frozen brine shrimp. what live food would you suggest? Live daphnia?
> 
> I am almost ready to quit on the guppies. I dont think my water params are bad or harmful in any way so it looks like I have some weak strains of guppies. My other male endler didn't look too good last night either.
> 
> What other livebearers are more prone to live longer?


Doesn't look like diet is an issue with those meals. I use chopped boiled shrimp or chopped earthworm if available. Be sure to clean the inside of the worm before use. If you do 50% water change each week, then you can eliminate bad water as a contributing factor. You'll have to be more picky with the fish you bring home.

It may take two years for me to locate cardinals worth keeping. Most are still caught in South America, so I have to be very selective with the fish. Once they are settled in my tank (3 to 4 days), they will usually last 5 years or more. I use S Cal tap water supplement with potassium and micro nutrients for the plants.

Because it is so easy to breed guppies, I'm not sure if you can keep them well in your tank without some form of anti-biotic. You may want to add one teaspoon of salt for each 10 gal as a general disinfectant. Maintain this concentration for several weeks to see if there is improvement. Use plain table salt found at the supermarket. Non-iodine would be best.

Also do not overfeed the guppies. Feed just enough food so that *none* will drop to the bottom of the tank. Twice a day, with each session lasting no more than 3 minutes. Fish can go without food for a week.


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## lenosquid (Oct 9, 2006)

my feeding regime is once when i get home from work around 5-7ish. I try to monitor the feeding so none drops. Those glow tetras are bullies and pigs! They dart in and out eating all the food before any of the neon tetras and guppies take a nibble. So yes they are fat. The others are normal looking though. 

The lights go on (right now) at 3 and go off at 9. 

As for the salt, I have heard some people suggest salt for the guppies and others say it won't do anything and is not worth the effort. So I am not sure what I should do. 

I think I might go away from the guppies if they all die. Not worth it. I'll try some other cool fish instead.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

It can't hurt at the recommended dosage. It costs about 50 cents for a box of salt. Very cheap n safe experiment.


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## Mad Dog (Mar 3, 2007)

> As for the salt, I have heard some people suggest salt for the guppies and others say it won't do anything and is not worth the effort. So I am not sure what I should do.


From my observations, there is a general concensus that livebearers do well with salt in the tank...however, you wouldnt be after just ordinary salt (sodium chloride), but rather more along the lines of a mixture of a couple different salts, but mainly epsom salt. Seachem makes a good livebearer salt that you can read about HERE. I have been told, on numerous occassions, that this type of salt is completely fine in a planted tank when it is used in correct dosages and there are very very few, if any, plants that would be damaged by using it. It can also be used on a long term basis, and again, as far as what I have read on forums, magazines, books, and from attending a few aquarium club events, most hobbyists tend to agree on that. However...


> It can't hurt at the recommended dosage. It costs about 50 cents for a box of salt. Very cheap n safe experiment.


The methodology of using salt (sodium chloride) in a freshwater aquarium on a long term basis is a pretty heated and usually passionate debate within the hobby. I feel as though most people are beginning to lean towards the thinking that adding this type of salt is useless and may have some harmful effects, albeit small....with the exception being for specific, short term, theraputic doses for a few issues such as ich. I can assure you though, I have a very strong feeling that most people in the hobby today would not debate over the statement that it is often times not a good idea to experimenting by adding things to a tank, even if it is salt, for no good reason other than it is cheap to buy. In any case, your guppies nor any true freshwater fish will die simply because there is no salt in the water. I agree with JanS as far as guppies being a formerly very hardy fish, and while some still are, the process of breeding them too much and trying to alter their fins and coloration through selective breeding is making them more difficult from time to time. Often times they are also sort of neglected at an LFS because of their reputation for being hardy and so they are not always acclimated well or their tank maintained as well....certainly they are one of the few fish in which an LFS will through 50 to 100 of them in one tank.

As far as losing some guppies after setting up a new tank and moving them from the previous tank, you could have put your fish into osmotic shock because the new tank probably does not exactly or closely match the water chemistry in the old tank. As a tank becomes well established, the water become slightly different than it was at the start. Having benificial bacteria in large numbers and the other needed bacteria which works on decaying organic matter will make some slight changes in chemistry. Also, items such as substrates, driftwood, Co2, etc...can also change water chemistry and create differences between one tank in your house to another tank. While I wouldnt go overboard with it, it may be a good idea to take a short time to acclimate your fish between tanks, especially between established tanks and new tanks, or tanks which have differing substrates, driftwood (or lack there of), DIY Co2 versus pressurized Co2, etc...


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## meredymae (Jan 5, 2007)

Odd, but this helps:

Try crossing a "feeder" guppy with a fancy one. Then keep crossing back with new fancies. You'd be amazed--they're super hardy.

Feeders are subject to natural selection because they're hunted. If you get those kinds of genetics back in with your fancies, you might lose a minute amount of the fanciness, but if you separate your males and females and don't inbreed the batch of fry, the results are better. Get a new fish every once and a while and sell off the ones that don't meet your standards.

I didn't figure this out on purpose. I had a classroom tank and a newt tank. My husband put feeders and a fancy in the newt tank and I only had fancies in the class tank. The class tank fish sputtered out after about 6 months and the male who danced with the female feeders produced an endless line of beautiful, hardy babies.


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