# Please Help with Plant Stocking



## ara35 (Oct 12, 2008)

I have a 30 gallon low light tank with Elodea in the right corner. i plan to fill it with the following plants that i plan to order online for $70... is it worth it?
- 3 java moss
- 10 vallisneria spiralis
- 5 ludwigia repens
- 4 anubius nana
- 3 cryptocoryne walkerii

is this too much? heres the pictures of the tank. it houses 1 angelfish, 5 bronze cories, 10 phantom tetras, 10 gold barbs.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

You didn't mention how much light you have, but L. repens isn't really a low light plant. It doesn't get nicely colored unless you have moderate to high light intensity. The other plants will probably manage pretty well, unless you have really low light, like just 30-40 watts. You can easily beat that price by shopping at the for sale forum here, or I believe you can.


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## ara35 (Oct 12, 2008)

i have 25 Watts


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## new2plnts (Jul 8, 2008)

Pretty sure you are going to need more light than that to grow anything. I would save your money and by a better light before you waste your money on plants that will just die off.


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## ara35 (Oct 12, 2008)

can i just get a better bulb for my 36 inch fixture?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

No, you can't get a better bulb for a fixture. Fluorescent fixtures use a specific wattage bulb that matches the length and the ballast used in the fixture. You might be able to fit an AH Supply bright kit in the fixture. See http://www.ahsupply.com/96watt.htm. That would give you 96 watts of light, more than enough to grow anything at all. Or, http://www.ahsupply.com/36-55w.htm, using the 2 x 36 watt kit would give you 72 watts, which would be better for a 30 gallon tank, and would also let you grow any plants you wished. One 55 watt kit would give enough light for most plants, but the bulb is a bit short for a 30 inch long tank. Those all cost less than what you were going to spend on plants.

With adequate light, you could then look for a good deal on a package of plants in the for sale forum and you would end up spending just a little more than you were going to spend on just plants.


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## ara35 (Oct 12, 2008)

would i need co2 or ferts if i got more lighting


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

ara35 said:


> would i need co2 or ferts if i got more lighting


As you add light you speed up the growth of the plants, and then they need fertilizers. But those are very cheap from http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/. Once you get up beyond 2 watts per gallon you really should us CO2 too, but for the size tank you have, you could use DIY CO2.

Or, you could use the light you have, and grow only mosses, or perhaps some anubias with the mosses. It is possible to have a very nice looking tank with just mosses. For that you need some flat rocks and/or some pieces of "driftwood" to tie the moss to. This is certainly the cheapest way to go.


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## ara35 (Oct 12, 2008)

well i thought vals and crypts were low light plants. also what mosses can i get besides java? and i was considering a moss wall... would this be worth a try?


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## bradac56 (May 9, 2007)

I'd think about buying a bunch of 'Dwarf Sagittaria' as a carpet grass to fill out the
rest of your tank. Unfortunately it does require a bit more light (medium) but the
results would be nice once it fills in tho when I say a bunch I mean allot unless 
you go with C02 where it can grow like crazy.

- Brad


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

ara35 said:


> well i thought vals and crypts were low light plants. also what mosses can i get besides java? and i was considering a moss wall... would this be worth a try?


"Low" light generally means around 1.25 watts per gallon, or more often even more. You have very low light.
Here is a thread from the for sale forum offering two mosses for sale: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...171-tiger-lotus-blyxa-tropica-swords-red.html. If you search that forum for "moss" you should be able to identify several folks who sell mosses periodically. Just PM some of them to see what you could get and for how much.

When I tried a moss wall I was disappointed, but you might have better luck than I did. I know lots of people do them and like them.


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## ara35 (Oct 12, 2008)

how many watts/gallons is moderate or medium light considered?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I suspect we have widely varying opinions about what constitutes moderate light intensity, as measured in watts per gallon. First, you have to specify that you are referring to AH Supply bright light kit quality bulbs and reflectors, or you are referring to T5 bulbs with individual reflectors, and that you mean a light fixture right at the top of a standard geometry tank.

I spent some time over the past two days trying to decide what I think the various light intensities mean, and to clarify my thinking I made this chart:









I know not everyone, and probably not even most here will agree with all that is on the chart, but it does help my thinking on the subject. I have been thinking about adding a column for a moss only tank, but I'm not sure of the parameters for that yet.


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## ara35 (Oct 12, 2008)

so what would be the best way to go with my tank? how much would it cost to get up to 1.5 watts/gallon?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

You need to study the light fixture you have, to see how much room there would be if you removed the existing electrical parts. Then, if there is enough room, 34.5 inches long x 4 inches wide x 2 inches high, you could install two 36 watt AH Supply Bright kits, giving you about 2.4 watts per gallon, with full length of the tank coverage, or a single 55 watt kit, which is only 21 inches long, giving darker areas at each of the tank, and 1.8 watts per gallon. The latter would be moderate lighting, and the former, high lighting. The cost would be about $63 plus shipping for the 55 watt kit and bulb. That would probably be the best choice for you.


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## ara35 (Oct 12, 2008)

what if i got another light exactly like what i have? im just really annoyed that this is happening. its frustrating!


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## bradac56 (May 9, 2007)

I normally cheat and call AHSupply and ask what they would recommend for the
tank I'm working on and then price shop the answer they give me. I'm willing to
bet you that you'll end up buying there kit.

- Brad


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

ara35 said:


> what if i got another light exactly like what i have? im just really annoyed that this is happening. its frustrating!


If it is more economical to just buy another light like you now have, you would have 50 watts, or 1.7 watts per gallon. Since those lights don't have good reflectors, and are T8 size bulbs, unless I'm mistaken, you would not have as much light as 1.7 watts per gallon of AH Supply quality light. It still could be enough for what you want to grow. And, it would be a big improvement in any case. You just have to decide what you can afford vs what you want to grow in the aquarium.

I think at worst you would have a low light aquarium, able to grow anubias, ferns, mosses, valisneria, many crypts, etc. That isn't bad.


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## ara35 (Oct 12, 2008)

> I think at worst you would have a low light aquarium, able to grow anubias, ferns, mosses, valisneria, many crypts, etc. That isn't bad.


is this with the extra light or the lighting i currently have?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

ara35 said:


> is this with the extra light or the lighting i currently have?


It is with the extra light. I doubt that you can succeed with anything except mosses with what you now have. And, even mosses would grow much slower than normal. Gardening, whether terrestrial or aquatic requires light.


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## bradac56 (May 9, 2007)

Just to be the odd man out: I have a little 12gal community tank with 1.0wpg, SMS/pool filter sand
and a light bio-load that's got:

Anibus nana 'petite' (attached to two peaces of driftwood)
Dwarf sagittaria (a full foreground carpet)
Corkscrew val (planted mid-range and rear on the two side)
Wendtii - red ( one center peace plant)
Cryptocoryne wendtii green (two rear center peace plants)
Ceratopteris thalictroides (as a floater for cover for the smaller fish and as an outgrow tank).


All of the plants are healthy but only the water sprite grows enough for me to prune.
There's no C02 or regular fert schedule (only when I remember it) and little to no light so
if your only wanting healthy plants and a low maintenance tank NPT works well but don't
expect any growth and the little bit of algae I've seen gets eaten by my snails.

- Brad


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Brad, you aren't odd man out. Any set of "requirements" for planted tanks will miss those who are on the edges of the "requirements" and doing very well. And, that includes a lot of people. But, if you are setting up a tank and want the best chance of success you get that by following a set of "requirements", always knowing that you might have been successful with less.

We all used to consider that to grow "high light" plants you needed 3, 4 or more watts per gallon. And, lots of people did it with that much light. But I have noticed in the past year or so, a lot of people (including me) now do well with those plants with a lot less light, so my definition of "high light" is lower than it used to be. I'm sure my definition of "low light" will change too. (up or down) Then, lights are a lot better now too, especially T5 lights.


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## ara35 (Oct 12, 2008)

okay well what would be the best option for something to buy? i dont wanna have a diy lighting system. whats a good site to use?


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## bradac56 (May 9, 2007)

AHSupply.com will sell you the light kit and box cover if you want to spend the money
and they will customize it with you on the phone you can't go wrong with them. 

They only sell CF fixtures so if you want a T5/HO fixture you'll have to research it.

- Brad


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## stuckintexas (Aug 12, 2008)

ara35,
if you dont mind a small, easy DIY project I urge you to go with a single 39W giesemann midday 34" bulb with reflector...this will take care of lighting needs if you want to grow almost any plant. your current light wont work so you can gut out that fixture housing and use it to house a REAL bulb. here is a link to the bulb. http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_Fluorescent/Bulbs/39W_6000K_Midday_Sun_T5_HO_Fluorescent_by_Giesemann

your fixture is 36" and this is 2" shorter...should be the perfect ammount of room to install.


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## ara35 (Oct 12, 2008)

on ebay i actually found 2 lights that interest me. one is a 36" one bulb 96W and the other is a 36" two bulb 39 watts each. they are both under 70 dollars with shipping. is it worth the investment and which would be better to go with since i dont want to use co2 and ferts?


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## new2plnts (Jul 8, 2008)

I would post a link to bulbs so people look at them and give you a better response or provide more info like are they T5 or what type they are


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## ara35 (Oct 12, 2008)

http://cgi.ebay.com/AQUARIUM-LIGHT-36-REEF-ODYSSEA-192WT-POWER-COMPACT-U4_W0QQitemZ260300129149QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item260300129149&_trkparms=72:1205|39:1|66:2|65:12|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_3490wt_0

http://cgi.ebay.com/36-Power-Compact-PC-Aquarium-Light-Reef-96W-Legs-New_W0QQitemZ300265907994QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item300265907994&_trkparms=39:1|66:2|65:15|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_1030wt_0

http://cgi.ebay.com/36-78W-Aquarium-T6-HO-Compact-Light-Fish-Reef_W0QQitemZ290268322494QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item290268322494&_trkparms=39:1|66:2|65:15|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_1189wt_0


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## smackpixi (Oct 15, 2008)

delete


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