# Planning a 75 Gal Tank - First Planted/Big Tank



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

Hi all! 
I've been really excited since learning my apartment complex is fine with us getting whatever tank size we want (on slab, gonna be here for another 2-3 years min while saving for a house in the same neighborhood). While at first I wanted to go full hog and big, I remembered my interest in dirted aquariums. So in an effort to not make the future tank too impossible to move, I dropped from 150-180 to 75 gallons and I've been soaking up research, including Diana's book, since. 

My current plan is to have a moderate sized piece of driftwood to act as a "fallen log" in the tank - one end buried in the dirt, the rest above to allow for more space. It'll give a good place for java fern, java moss, and anubis imo while breaking up line of sight for the longer plants that'll go in the back. I have a list of plants I'd love to try, but I need to read up on them more and also see what's in my city before compiling a completed list to share. The goal is to have a densely planted aquarium with lots of different textures and a little color.

My concern right now is stocking expectations. I use aqadvisor as a guiding hand for my ideas about stocking, but of course having an "underpowered" powerhead makes it go nuts about filtration. I have an idea of what I want, which I'll list here:

20 orange pumpkin shrimp 
10 bamboo shrimp
5 nerite snails 
15 panda cory cats
25 rummynose tetras 
25 neon tetras 
2 German ram cichlids (I know they'll go after the pumpkin shrimp. I hope to give the shrimplets plenty of places to hide so they can populate while the cichlids snack on them)
With proper filtration, aqadvisor says that my future tank is about 86% stocked. I also know I plan on introducing each species slowly (snails and shrimp once the plants are good, then corycats, rummynose, cichlids, and finally neons). I'd stop adding fish if it starts struggling. But I'm still worried this might be a bad plan? 

I also was thinking about the powerhead filter, for mechanical filtration/waterflow. I had originally planned on an aquaclear 50, but with how many fast growing plants I have on my list (guppy grass, hornwort, anacharis are some examples), I think the flow would be dispersed rather quickly once everything starts growing in. And with a long piece of driftwood, I don't know that the flow would be throughout the whole tank, since it'll be a midtank barrier. So I thought maybe getting two 50s or even two 70s and having one in the front and one in the back might help make sure there's a slow to moderate flow through the whole tank. 

I also live in a very dark apartment, with little to no outside light. My partner and I rarely use powerful lights either, usually just a small side lamp in the living room. To counteract this, I was looking at some more intense lighting setups, such as the Current USA 36-48" Satellite Plus PRO LED Light. I have to do some more research into this aspect especially, but with a deeper tank, I'd like to make sure there's light all the way to the bottom for plants to thrive. I do know this can cause some issues with algae, so I _think_ the PRO LED has dimming capabilities, I have frogbit and red root floaters on my list, and I'd be throwing the inverts in earlier than everything else so they can snack and get a chance to thrive before the rams enter the picture. 

*tl;dr* Is there a way for me to reasonably set expectations on how many fish my partner and I can have for themselves and me when it comes to El Natural styled tanks or is it add a few at the time and keep a careful watch? For mechanical filtration, would it be a good idea to stick to a single Aquaclear 50 in a densely planted tank or should I try to split slightly more powerful filtration front/back so there's no stagnation? And what sort of lighting system would work in a deeper tank for moderate light when there's legit no sunlight coming into the apartment?


----------



## Chris829 (Mar 24, 2020)

nonbinaryunicorn said:


> Hi all!
> I've been really excited since learning my apartment complex is fine with us getting whatever tank size we want (on slab, gonna be here for another 2-3 years min while saving for a house in the same neighborhood). While at first I wanted to go full hog and big, I remembered my interest in dirted aquariums. So in an effort to not make the future tank too impossible to move, I dropped from 150-180 to 75 gallons and I've been soaking up research, including Diana's book, since.
> 
> My current plan is to have a moderate sized piece of driftwood to act as a "fallen log" in the tank - one end buried in the dirt, the rest above to allow for more space. It'll give a good place for java fern, java moss, and anubis imo while breaking up line of sight for the longer plants that'll go in the back. I have a list of plants I'd love to try, but I need to read up on them more and also see what's in my city before compiling a completed list to share. The goal is to have a densely planted aquarium with lots of different textures and a little color.
> ...


I have a 75 gallon aquarium and I went through some growing pains with the light and power head. I started with the aqua clear 70 and it was way to strong so I bought an Aquaclear 50 with the quick filter as a water polisher and it is more than enough so you will only need one. Sometimes I think it's too much even on the lowest setting. In regards to the lighting it was difficult to find the right set up. I started with a beamworks EA FSLED and it was not enough to get adequate growth because it was not strong enough for the 18 inch depth of the 75 gallon tank. I tried the Finnex 24/7 planted setup and modified the light cycle but when the power would go out it would revert to the standard cycle and I kept having to reset it. Doesn't seem like a big deal but in summer in Florida it happened all the time. You also can't really do an adequate siesta period with the Finnex because of the ramp up and ramp down thing it has going on. I went back to the beam works thinking something would change but plant growth was stagnant. I am back to the Finnex Planted 24/7 but have it on it's pre programed light cycle and the plants are growing well and with only some algae showing up on the glass but it has only been running for about 3 weeks. You should be good (but at your limit) with the fish stocking levels you listed but only after the tank and plants have time to establish themselves. I have angels, cardinal tetras, rainbowfish, corys, snails, and shrimp and nothing bad showing up on the test kit. I hope this helps, good luck.


----------



## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

Chris829 said:


> I am back to the Finnex Planted 24/7 but have it on it's pre programed light cycle


Have you tried using an outlet timer instead of the built-in timers on the lights? You can get them pretty cheap at the hardware store (or slightly more expensive at the pet store) and create your own custom light schedule down to 15 minute granularity. No dimming or anything, but it works well for me.


----------



## Chris829 (Mar 24, 2020)

The problem with the timer on the finnex planted 24/7 is that you can not override the ramp up and rap down day light simulation cycle. You can customize the lighting intensity but when the power comes back on the daylight cycle starts where it left off which isn't bad the first day but the next morning it picks up at the setting it was at in the evening so you have to reset it every morning, if that makes sense. You can program it in 3 hr increments and I first tried to make a 3 hr siesta starting at noon but the way it's set up it will reach its max programed intensity at 9 am and gradually go dark until completely out at noon. Once it reaches noon/off it will start ramping up to the setting of 3 pm. Kind of like a bright fade to black and slowly brighten up thing. There is no way around it as far as I can tell. I wish I bought a different light be I don't want to invest on another one. I just let it do it's thing which seems to be growing my plants better with only a minimum increase in algae so far.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

Chris829 said:


> I have a 75 gallon aquarium and I went through some growing pains with the light and power head. I started with the aqua clear 70 and it was way to strong so I bought an Aquaclear 50 with the quick filter as a water polisher and it is more than enough so you will only need one. Sometimes I think it's too much even on the lowest setting. In regards to the lighting it was difficult to find the right set up. I started with a beamworks EA FSLED and it was not enough to get adequate growth because it was not strong enough for the 18 inch depth of the 75 gallon tank. I tried the Finnex 24/7 planted setup and modified the light cycle but when the power would go out it would revert to the standard cycle and I kept having to reset it. Doesn't seem like a big deal but in summer in Florida it happened all the time. You also can't really do an adequate siesta period with the Finnex because of the ramp up and ramp down thing it has going on. I went back to the beam works thinking something would change but plant growth was stagnant. I am back to the Finnex Planted 24/7 but have it on it's pre programed light cycle and the plants are growing well and with only some algae showing up on the glass but it has only been running for about 3 weeks. You should be good (but at your limit) with the fish stocking levels you listed but only after the tank and plants have time to establish themselves. I have angels, cardinal tetras, rainbowfish, corys, snails, and shrimp and nothing bad showing up on the test kit. I hope this helps, good luck.


Yeah, I kinda don't like the ramp up/down which is why I decided on the PRO LED for now. I basically reviewed several different review lists then looked at the Amazon reviews on three different lighting setups that were said to be good for moderate light at 18 inches. Though I'm trying to pick up a tank secondhand, so right now there's one with a FluvalSmart Light... which I have no idea what that is. It seems like it's just the app name, so I'm trying to figure out what lights pair with that since it's unlikely I'll get my other choice of tank/stand since it's super underpriced. 

All my frustrations with Facebook Marketplace is seriously making me consider just building my own stand/tank setup. Or wait for Petco's dollar per gallon sale and make my own stand so there can be a space for a quarantine 10 gal underneath the main tank. Idk yet on my plans for that. 

I guess since i'll likely not be stocking the tank with fish for a long while (I really want to get those plants and a shrimp colony established first) I'll have plenty of time to make sure an Aquaclear 50 can cycle through the whole tank with the driftwood bisecting it. It is actually your post that had me drop from a 110 down to a 50 to start with and then I started second-guessing myself when aqadvisor started flipping out. 

Going through your discussions actually led me down a rabbithole and between you and a few other discussion, it's starting to sound like my tank will be fine once the plants are flourishing. I at least won't have any livebearers to worry about overpopulating, just the shrimps which I suspect will mostly be dealt with by the rams. Thank you!


----------



## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

Chris829 said:


> The problem with the timer on the finnex planted 24/7 is that you can not override the ramp up and rap down day light simulation cycle.


I guess for my setup, I haven't found the ramp-up/ramp-down useful. It looks good, but it's far more worth it to have the siesta period. My 24+ is just set to a constant intensity all the time, and turned on and off periodically via the timer.


----------



## Chris829 (Mar 24, 2020)

Jatcar95 you're a genius  I gather you have the finnex planted plus 24/7 too...I didn't catch that in your first post. I never thought about setting a constant intensity for every 3 hour period in the 24 hour cycle which would eliminate my issue. Duh, I kind of feel silly now. I just set everything to level six and put it on the outlet timer. We will see if I have to tweak the intensity in the future. Thanks!


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

Welp I'm gonna turn this into my tank journal. Very excited because A. someone on Reddit has a cheaper light setup and is gonna send pics when he has a chance. I'm gonna see if there's a way to fit it to my tank plans. B. I'm getting a tank tomorrow. It's from offerup, which is like Facebook I guess? $350 for the tank, stand, and it looks like it comes with some hardscape materials and a giant sponge filter. 

I love sponge filters so if that works I may not get the powerhead after all. Might be nicer to the future shrimpies as well.


----------



## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

Chris829 said:


> I just set everything to level six and put it on the outlet timer. We will see if I have to tweak the intensity in the future. Thanks!


I think I forgot to mention in my first post 😅 But yeah, I tried playing around with the cycles and weather and stuff for a while...some of it looks really cool! But practically speaking, I'm fine with just the constant level. I do adjust it occasionally if algae starts growing, or if the floating plants get extra thick or whatnot. I will say - the lights coming on all at once does seem to startle my rasboras a tad...so a dimmer would not be terrible. But it works for now.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I use the $7 timers from hardware store. The fish adjust to lights suddenly switching on and off.


----------



## jake37 (Mar 18, 2021)

I would recommend cardinals instead of neon and sterbai instead of panda as german blue ram require 82+ to thrive and neither panda nor neon will appreciate the warm waters. Conversely you could swap the german blue rams for apistogramma (borelli or hongsloi would be my suggestion) or bolivan rams and keep the tank a bit cooler for the panda and neon.
-
For lights it depends a bit what you are willing to spend - at the low end beamswork and hyger 957; at the middle end fluval 3.0 at the high end wrgb 2.
-
Filtration for a 75 - hum not a fan of hob but a lot of folks love them. tidal and aquaclear. A 50 is going to make a lot of current. i had a aquaclear on my 40B but i can't remember the size and looking at the filter it doesn't have it stamped on it. - i'm a big fan of sponge filters. You might want to add a couple of those to add a bit of current and produce some biofilm which your shrimp would love.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

jake37 said:


> I would recommend cardinals instead of neon and sterbai instead of panda as german blue ram require 82+ to thrive and neither panda nor neon will appreciate the warm waters. Conversely you could swap the german blue rams for apistogramma (borelli or hongsloi would be my suggestion) or bolivan rams and keep the tank a bit cooler for the panda and neon.
> -
> For lights it depends a bit what you are willing to spend - at the low end beamswork and hyger 957; at the middle end fluval 3.0 at the high end wrgb 2.
> -
> Filtration for a 75 - hum not a fan of hob but a lot of folks love them. tidal and aquaclear. A 50 is going to make a lot of current. i had a aquaclear on my 40B but i can't remember the size and looking at the filter it doesn't have it stamped on it. - i'm a big fan of sponge filters. You might want to add a couple of those to add a bit of current and produce some biofilm which your shrimp would love.


I may look into the bolivian rams just because I cannot let go of the neons. I grew up a military brat and my brightest memory in Japan is sitting in my parents' office watching our 10 gallon tank with a small school of neons. Today, I realize they might've been a bit cramped and baby me overblew the numbers a bit, but that's what got me into caring about tanks at all. 

Honestly the bolivians also work better with the idea of getting blue shrimp instead of the orange pumpkins. The big test is wanting to find a local hobbyist or store that sells the appropriate fish. Thank you for noticing that because I _did_ look through everything but just apparently missed the water temps. 

I might go for the Fluval 3.0. I've just consistently heard great things about them, even in ye old days when I frequented betta fish forums. 

I'm not gonna go for a HOB because I don't want it messing too much with the floaters or causing surface agitation if I forget to top off the water while the plants are establishing. I'd be getting a powerhead if I went that route, though I would either have to cover it with sponge anyway to keep shrimps from getting stuck. I do love sponge filters though. I was really excited because I thought the tank I bought secondhand had a big one with it but it looks like the photo was either an older one and they tossed it, it's buried in the box o' stuff to sort through, or I just misjudged what was in the tank to start with lol.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

I hope the picture doesn't end up this big on the forum. 

Yesterday was a weird ass ****show but I've officially inspected the tank I've chosen to purchase. Dude is gonna drop it off Saturday (or after work Friday) and I can start making it my own. 

In the meantime, my partner and I decided we were too excited to wait and put together a hopefully to be shrimp bowl. Bowl itself was from Michaels, got some organic potting soil from Lowe's, some sand and a bunch of marked down plants from PetSmart. Most of them were emergent so it was a perfect chance to test the DSM. Sadly this is the only photo I've taken so far but there are some dying leaves and junk I need to prune before I feel comfortable letting people actually see the plants lol. 

I'm gonna try and mineralize the rest of the soil we have and try and do that in smallish batches for when the tank arrives. That way it's not such a pain in the butt doing that in an apartment with a dog who really, really likes getting her dumb little nose into everything we're doing.


----------



## Noahlikesfish (Apr 17, 2021)

Honestly with a 75g you could double that stocking if it’s a el natural tank. Somebody on another forum has like 130-150 nano fish like microrasbora and cpd and also psudomugil in a 40g so I don’t see why you couldn’t do that b/c all those fish stay super small. I would advise against rams with Panda cories or neons, they don’t like warm water as much as other fish. I’d say a group of Bolivian Ram, some kind of apisto or keyhole chiclids (my favorite, they are monogamous and social, 4 recommended minimum)


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

No images of the actual tank stand, but this is the setup currently. About 1.5" of soil, 1" of sand/gravel with the big stones. There's a **** ton of java moss in there and I'm getting more plants from Dustin's Fish Tanks and reddit soon. The guy who gave me the moss said there may be shrimp or scarlet badis fry, so I guess we'll see! 










The bowl has also been overrun by moss. I'm expecting the stuff I was letting slowly adjust to water is gonna die now, but we'll see. 



> Honestly with a 75g you could double that stocking if it’s a el natural tank. Somebody on another forum has like 130-150 nano fish like microrasbora and cpd and also psudomugil in a 40g so I don’t see why you couldn’t do that b/c all those fish stay super small. I would advise against rams with Panda cories or neons, they don’t like warm water as much as other fish. I’d say a group of Bolivian Ram, some kind of apisto or keyhole chiclids (my favorite, they are monogamous and social, 4 recommended minimum)


I believe someone here? told me to go with Bolivians as well. I'm too much of a sleepy bitch to check rn lol. So I've adjusted accordingly and I am still a bit salty. I've thought about it, but idk yet. I've also thought about getting a species of fish that can procreate in the tank that aren't just the rams, but just ??? I'm dedicated to cories, rummynose, neons, and shrimp but everything else feels a bit up in the air.

I'll just see how the tank fairs as I add each species and take it slow. If it's doing really well, I'll add more to the schools and look into the apisto or keyholes. Something bright and cool to look at.


----------



## Noahlikesfish (Apr 17, 2021)

you could try sajica they are Central American beautiful and peaceful and easy to breed


----------



## Noahlikesfish (Apr 17, 2021)

If you let keyholes color up a lot they will turn deep blue


----------



## Noahlikesfish (Apr 17, 2021)

Not mine, mine are wild but they are still beautiful


----------



## Noahlikesfish (Apr 17, 2021)

My tank has about the same stocking as what you want and it’s 40g so definitley you can do more. I have a lot of fish and most of them are showing spawning behavior and my water is perfect


----------



## jake37 (Mar 18, 2021)

More is not always better. Not sure why you are pushing for op to get more fishes - i think he has a good starting point and should just let things 'cook' for a while.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

Time for a little update. I ordered a ton of plants from Dustin's Fish Tanks because I have no idea what I'll be able to keep alive long term so. Planted it all Wednesday, just kinda where I liked it (tho I tried to keep red plants nearest where the light is the strongest). 









Of course, the ammonia was nuts, so I just did a 30% water change after work today, and I'll be doing so frequently while the plants establish themselves. The water was even looking a little green! But I was super excited because I think there's new growth already! 










I'm getting a GoPro soon, so I'm hoping to start taking video of the tank soon. It'll be fun.

I also found a good lfs, so I'll be choosing stock from there. I even got an old display 10 gal of theirs that I'll use to quarantine the fish as they come in (rimless, $10, I nearly cried with delight). But they have neocaridina and amano shrimp, panda cories, neons, rummynose, and honey gouramis, so that's what I'm gonna stick with for my ideal stock. 

The next big step will be for me to set up the second filter that I plan on using to cycle the q tank. It'll help a bit with the dead spots in the tank too I think, or else I wouldn't bother plugging it into the air pump. But other than that and keeping the ammonia down a bit so the plants don't die from that, we just gotta wait for the tank to do its thing.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

Noahlikesfish said:


> I’d stick away from gouramis of the cosilia genus (honey and dwarf and flame and powder) they can get a nasty disease called iridovirus that I have experienced and it’s terminal and its Super super common in inbred cosilia gouramis (which is almost all cosilia gouramis) Viral Aquarium Fish Diseases | Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine also I’d worry about temperatures not mixing, the rummy noses and neons don’t have the same temp. I’d maybe do like a Orinoco river Themed tank with neons, bronze cories and keyhole chiclids because they are all very peaceful. You could even do angels or other tetras. I’d say the green water could just be reflections from the plants. Your tank would look awesome with maybe 30 neons like 20 cories. If you can get the wild Orinoco Venezuelan aneus you would regret passing it up. And like 8 keyhole chiclids then you would have a thriving tank and you could do lots more tetras and lots of shrimp. IME keyholes won’t bother shrimp, just make sure to keep some leaf litter because they do like digging in leaf litter.


I want to take my chance on honey gouramis. Worst comes to worst they die and I've learned my lesson. Fortunately, the lfs I am gonna stick with doesn't even keep dwarf gourami and all their tanks are separate systems, so that helps cut down on potential cross-contamination a bit. 

Neons and rummynose do have a very narrow temp in common, like 2 degrees worth. After being reminded about how high German rams tend to run, I checked and double checked what would be the most ideal parameters for my tank, then checked against my water and what my heater can run. My tank sits easy right in the middle of the temp range. My partner and I also are set on pandas. I don't want wild caught fish ever, and I personally am not a fan of angels. 

The water I dumped in the tub was green, so it wasn't just the reflection.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

Why are you making such a big deal out of this? I'm one person, so it's not like I'm taking away these people's jobs single-handedly. I don't want wild caught fish; shrimp are different imo. 

The most I'd currently change my mind on is the neons, but that's only because its body type is similar to the rummynose. I may go for harlequin rasboras or something else that's small and fun to swim around. I'm sorry if you like my tank and you're disappointed I'm not stocking it how you want, but it's my partner's first tank and my first big one, so I'm going to do what we want and research the hell out of it so the fish we choose are living their best lives.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I like that you filled the tank with all kinds of plants and spread out your stem plants. Looks like you've got a soil substrate with a thin enough cover that it won't smother bacteria in the soil layer. You sound like a very conscientious fish keeper. Choosing fish for this tank should be fun. I hope that you will let us see your progress.


----------



## Noahlikesfish (Apr 17, 2021)

Make sure to keep in mind biodiversity. Father fish says that biodiversity is key to a healthy tank, more types of fish = more filled niches in your ecosystem.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> I like that you filled the tank with all kinds of plants and spread out your stem plants. Looks like you've got a soil substrate with a thin enough cover that it won't smother bacteria in the soil layer. You sound like a very conscientious fish keeper. Choosing fish for this tank should be fun. I hope that you will let us see your progress.


Thank you Ms. Walstad for your kind reply. I do plan on showing my progress as it continues! I even got my GoPro but I got to experiment a bit with lights to make sure I'm not accidentally reflected in the glass lol. 

In a more general update, I find myself in the living room more often and with a little more energy since starting the tank. This is nice just because I've been off my meds for so long that it's hard to remember what it's like to be functional. But now I'm out in the living room fiddling about and taking my dog out more often. Good for us both. Today's a hard day. But I've still managed to get up and moving and I'm cleaning up the apartment a bit before taking the puppo out for a walk around the block. 

I also have that 10 gallon and it's becoming seriously tempting to go to a local river and collect stones/wood to go ahead and prepare for an alien betta. I'm seriously debating between a "magical forest" tank where I intersperse a few pieces of quartz and silk plants with live plants and natural wood or just another wild place where the betta and a handful of cardinal tetras stand out. 

Either way, no pics for the day. I'm going to play with the gopro again today after I check the ammonia. Probably need to get all that excess nutrients out since I was dogsitting all day yesterday.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

Got my second pfizer shot yesterday and I ended up feeling high key terrible until about a couple hours ago. I finally did another 20 gallon water change on the 75, and I tried to take a couple videos on the GoPro. We will see how that turns out tomorrow since I got to work. 

I scared my partner though. I was halfway through the change when I saw fry! I was warned there might be some_ dario dario_ babies in the java moss, and of course we've seen MTS snails trying to escape because the soil wasn't mineralized and it's just _super_ hot right now. I've not been doing daily water changes to keep the nutrients down terribly much either, just trying to take the edge off so the plants have a chance to figure out if they want to live or not. But I shot a little video on my phone I can upload here.






You can get a peek at some of the plants too. Some are thriving, some are surviving, and some are struggling. I also accidentally left out an entire package of plants that somehow wasn't entirely dried out. They got thrown in a few days ago, and I am going to spend my Sunday going through and trying to get some of the worst off plants out so they don't decay and cause more ammonia to be released. 

I don't know if these fry are gonna survive, but I'll work on getting the ammonia down to more fish friendly levels. I also added a second sponge filter so it can be cycled for the 10 gal eventually. I am just not over the fact there are 2 or 3 fish? Alive?? How? I have some fish flake. Should I crumple that real small and add that so they have a chance to live?


----------



## Noahlikesfish (Apr 17, 2021)

Go to your lfs or go to a veneral pond find the dirtiest mulmiest substrate you can find, get some and dump it in your tank, the Dario will eat the microfauna


----------



## Noahlikesfish (Apr 17, 2021)

And it will help the plants if you choose the pond route, there’s very little risk of getting some kind of mega predator


----------



## Noahlikesfish (Apr 17, 2021)

Or parasitws. It’s what I feed my rainbow fry and I’d assume that Dario fry are tiny because Dario are tiny and rainbow fry are tiny so they will probably eat the microfauna


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Oh, lucky you. I never got mine to breed. Do you have soft or hard water?


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

Noahlikesfish said:


> Or parasitws. It’s what I feed my rainbow fry and I’d assume that Dario fry are tiny because Dario are tiny and rainbow fry are tiny so they will probably eat the microfauna


No, I won't be going to a local waterway and adding anything to my tank. I live in _Philadelphia_; the Schuyllkill River is the 3rd most polluted river in the state and the Delaware River is the 5th most polluted river in the country. I don't know how to say this politely, but I saw your comments about alien bettas being gross hybrids before you or someone else deleted them, and I have very little interest in taking your advice.

To note for the journaling process, I did my reading after making my post, and I've learned the fry are likely living off a combination of infusoria and the "green water" that had begun to redevelop since my last water change. Infusoria is naturally occurring in most tanks, and since I have at most 3 fry, I doubt they're going to starve themselves before getting big enough for regular food. All that said, I'll still attempt to culture my own infusoria later this weekend in an effort to have a backup since I'll be doing more water changes daily until the ammonia levels are in control. This unintentional fish in water cycle is quite exciting. I need to find out if there's any fry in the bowl since it's literally a pile of moss.



mistergreen said:


> Oh, lucky you. I never got mine to breed. Do you have soft or hard water?


I want to redo all the parameter testing tonight, but the last I checked, it's "moderately hard." I'm not sure the water hardness from the person who gave me the moss though. He lives in North Philly while I'm way more West.


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Yeah, the microfauna in your dirt tank should be enough. They will need something larger when they’re bigger like bbs or micro worms. I’m raising paramecium and Moina daphnia in preparation for a breeding project.


----------



## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

"I don't know how to say this politely, but I saw your comments about alien bettas being gross hybrids before you or someone else deleted them, and I have very little interest in taking your advice."

You are certainly more polite than the rude posts I deleted.

There is a feature in our new format that you may want to use. Click on the name of any member whose posts you do not wish to see. On the member's page, just below the statistics, there will be three options: Follow, Ignore, and Start Conversation. Click Ignore and you will no longer see that member's posts. If you wish to change your mind later, return to the member's page and click on Unignore.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

Michael said:


> You are certainly more polite than the rude posts I deleted.


Thanks. I usually have him on ignore actually since I learned about the feature, but I like to browse the forums on my phone if I wake up too early for work, and I am not logged in on there. This will have been my last reply to him as I've found most my interactions to be entirely antithetical to the joy and calming nature of the hobby.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

Small update. There are two fry it seems, one a little fatter than the other. We've named them both Andy, after a character my partner has made that just refuses to die. I pulled out a lot of stems that have melted, including about 1/3 of the plants I had missed in my initial planting. Some of the pothos looks like it's growing some roots too, so that's nice. I plan on getting a setup for hatching brine shrimp in the next week or two, just so when they're a little bigger, we can keep feeding the Andys. Still amazed they seem to be thriving despite the ammonia being pretty high still. 

I also finished the lid for the shrimp bowl. I'll be moving it over to my partner's desk after thinning out the java moss a bit. Pretty sure we decided to turn it into a skittle shrimp bowl, and I think they'll like it a lot when they're on their computer.


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

What do you feed the Dario parents?


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> What do you feed the Dario parents?


That's the funny thing -- I don't have any fish, just these two fry. They're hitchhikers from the java moss, meaning they were there from the super toxic beginnings.


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Ah, hitchhikers. They’re notorious for only eating live foods. Maybe you can introduced crushed sinking pellets to them in the process Since they’re babies.


----------



## Noahlikesfish (Apr 17, 2021)

2 Dario would be fine in 75 gallons of water without any food if they didn’t eat, my friend had 1 in 2.5G and it didn’t eat anything he offered it but it lived for a very long time. It died from natural causes so 2 in a 75 would be fine


----------



## Noahlikesfish (Apr 17, 2021)

Esp as fry


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> Ah, hitchhikers. They’re notorious for only eating live foods. Maybe you can introduced crushed sinking pellets to them in the process Since they’re babies.


Do you think Hikari First Bites would sink enough for the practice? I would probably soak it in water first, but they're pretty easy to find when the lights are on. They always hang around around the top near where the water is slower before zipping off if they notice me looking for them. So they should be easy to train for breakfast!


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Yeah, I would try First Bites and BBS. Get them to associate First Bites with BBS.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

Just a quick and somewhat ****ty picture of big Andy. I've not seen the littler fry in about 18 hours, but I'm sure he's somewhere in there. Meanwhile this guy is getting pretty big! It's pretty exciting to watch them grow and deal with me messing around in the tank.

I've also noticed some of the red stems around the big sponge filter have lost most of their leaves. I may leave them and see if they manage to bounce back, but if not, there's plenty of new growth from the cabomba/hornwort that I should be able to replace them in a month.


----------



## Noahlikesfish (Apr 17, 2021)

That isn’t a Dario that’s a rainbowfish


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

More pics post water change today. I'm really pleased with the growth I'm seeing, especially since the shrimp bowl was filled to the gills with java moss until today and almost all the plants were dying/heavily discounted pieces from one of the local PetSmarts. 

I've also taken some new measurements from the tanks. And I found out that the guy who sold me the java moss had apparently put a pair of rainbowfish into the tank of _dario dario_ and it's likely I got one of his first fry from the pair. No idea if little Andy is also a rainbowfish or a dario. I'm really hoping they're the same, just to make stocking more straightforward down the line. 

A couple little speedy things scared me half to death but from my research it looks like a couple water fleas. It's pretty cool seeing life in the tank when we've not actually added anything yet. 



























75 gal: Firmly in the middle of cycling. We've got about 1 ppm of ammonia, .5 ppm of nitrite, and 10 ppm of nitrates. It'll probably take a couple more weeks and couple more water changes before we can start adding inverts and corydoras with our Andys. 















2.5 gal: I'm surprised how good it is considering I've done absolutely nothing to it besides top it off and remove the java moss today. .5 ppm ammonia, 5 ppm nitrite, and 40 ppm nitrate. I'll be doing a big ole water change in a minute to help it get to healthy parameters. Especially that nitrite, geeze. I've never seen it so purple.

But I'm super pleased! The pothos is growing roots and new leaves, and I can see a lot of growth in many of the stems. Now to keep this pace.


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

So, that's how the fry have been surviving, eating the water flea (daphnia). 
When you harvest the duckweed, save it to dry. They make good fish food.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> So, that's how the fry have been surviving, eating the water flea (daphnia).
> When you harvest the duckweed, save it to dry. They make good fish food.


Well right now, I'm going to be transplanting it to the big tank, but this is a good idea! I know there's some other little wiggly things in the water, but these new things were rather big. Maybe more like aquatic roly polys than daphnia? If I can get a good video I'll have to record because I think I wrote water flea and meant something else.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

Here's the weird little bug thing. I finally got a good video.


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Your video is private but I think I know what you have. Scuds, Amphipods, basically aquatic roly-poly. Catch them if you can. They're plant-eaters.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> Your video is private but I think I know what you have. Scuds, Amphipods, basically aquatic roly-poly. Catch them if you can. They're plant-eaters.


Double ugh. I've only seen one or two, so I'll have the net out while I'm checking on the fry.


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Actually, once you have fish in the tank, they’ll eat the scuds for you.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Here's website showing that scuds are small native shrimp treasured as a live fishfood. There's no indication that they eat plants. Like other shrimp, they eat debris and dead plant matter. Based on Michael and Mistergreen's okay and this website, I would consider scuds (Gammarus species) as an interesting asset to your tank. 

And thanks for the beautiful video of your scud. I had never heard of them until this morning.


----------



## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

I've never had problems with scuds as my fish exterminate them immediately. The only time I saw a problem was in a friend's tank with shrimp, very delicate plants, and no fish. Scuds multipied rapidly and did seem to damage plants. I gave him 3 male Endler's for the tank--problem solved.


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

There's somebody who cultures scuds for fish food. They throw in hornwort for their food.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

Small update, nothing much since life is hard atm. Mental health is no joke. 

Talking with the guy I bought the moss from, it looks like big Andy is actually a full grown female. Guy doesn't know what sort of rainbowfish she is, but from what I can tell, she might be a Pacific Signifier Blue Eyed Rainbowfish (_psudomugil signifer_). I'm not totally certain though because she's so tiny and _p. signifer_ can be like 1.5 inches long. I'm hoping to get a proper ID eventually since in any case I want to make sure they have a proper little school. I really don't like not giving them the optimal conditions to thrive. 

"They" because now that little Andy is a little bigger, he is looking just like Big Andy. Tiny, bright blue eyes. I usually find BA quicker than LA just because of where they like to hang out in the tank. 

Honestly, I'm still impressed they've survived 6+ ppm of ammonia. I wonder what would've happened if I hadn't noticed some of the plants starting to burn from the excess. They probably would've died.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

I don't know how, but there's 4 of these little guys in the tank now. And their bellies are turning red! What are you little guys? The seller hasn't replied to me. 

Also I did a small water change since my ammonia was still between 1-2 ppm. The nitrites were 0 though, so I'm hoping that means we're starting to cycle. I didn't believe it at first and had to test the water twice!


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

The 4 babies can be your test fish for monitoring water quality. If they survive, that's a good sign.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> The 4 babies can be your test fish for monitoring water quality. If they survive, that's a good sign.


I think these guys are extra tough since they've been in since the beginning, when ammonia was off the charts. But yep, I love watching them grow up. Super curious about what exactly they are.


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

My guess is blue eye rainbowfish, Pseudogumil of some sort.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

nonbinaryunicorn said:


> I think these guys are extra tough since they've been in since the beginning, when ammonia was off the charts. But yep, I love watching them grow up. Super curious about what exactly they are.


Something to look forward to! Rainbowfish are wonderful.


----------



## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

mistergreen said:


> When you harvest the duckweed, save it to dry. They make good fish food.


Maybe a topic for a different thread, but could you elaborate on how to do this? I have so much extra duckweed I just throw away...


----------



## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

jatcar95 said:


> Maybe a topic for a different thread, but could you elaborate on how to do this? I have so much extra duckweed I just throw away...


Just let dry on a pan. It turns into flake food. Any omnivore will eat it. It's high in protein, especially wolfia duck weed.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

Don't have much of a positive update, but most of my plants don't seem to be doing well for the most part. Their leaves have all melted away, and I'm not certain if it's from a lack of light or what. I may bump the light up for awhile and see if there's any change, as well as the usual water change for the fry. Pic below with lights at 40%.










That one betta bulb and the pothos is doing crazy well though. The pothos has lots of new leaves and growing roots down, and the bulb plant appeared overnight. There's a bunch of stems floating in the corner for when I can put it in my 10 gallon. The other thing is a brine shrimp incubator that's currently empty. It's super fun to use and the fry eat the bbs up like mad.

idk. There's no smell (not that my sense of smell is great but my partner says there's no smell) and it does look like it's mostly the plants under the driftwood. So I think increasing the lights will help reach the harder to reach spots. I'll keep it at the normal cycle but bump it up and see if we have any algae explosion, though so long as it's not pea soup water I'm not certain I'd mind a bit of algae.

Anyway, that's it for an update. Mostly I've learned I'm probably bipolar, and while I'm working towards a diagnosis and medication, I've fallen into my far more common depression mood swing, which makes everything drag. The tank helps though. It gives me an extra purpose to get up and check on the fry before I take the pup out for a walk.


----------



## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

nonbinaryunicorn said:


> Don't have much of a positive update, but most of my plants don't seem to be doing well for the most part. Their leaves have all melted away, and I'm not certain if it's from a lack of light or what. I may bump the light up for awhile and see if there's any change, as well as the usual water change for the fry. Pic below with lights at 40%.
> 
> View attachment 73550
> 
> ...


I'm betting your Memorial Day weekend was a washout, too.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

johnwesley0 said:


> I'm betting your Memorial Day weekend was a washout, too.


Yes, but that's mostly because I worked Saturday and work tomorrow. Yesterday was super rainy as well lol. But I've enjoyed resting today since I'm a dog groomer and I've had a series of 150+ pound dogs I've worked on. My pup's liked it too since she likes to try and sleep on my chest like she's a cat.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

This tank has rocks, wood and filter taking up more "floor space" than plants. If you have a soil underlayer, it would be ideal to have plant roots digging into the substrate to keep it healthy. Otherwise, there's really no point in having a soil underlayer. 

If this were my tank, I would remove the rocks on each end and replace them with strong rooted plants. A 75 gal is a big tank where you could go wild with Amazon Swordplants, Val and other strong rooted plants. Even if you just spread out some of your stem plants..... 

However, if you are enjoying your tank, then that's all that really counts.


----------



## nonbinaryunicorn (Apr 11, 2021)

Hello everyone! It's been a hot minute, but I'm back.
I'm really happy to show the progress my 75 gallon has made. It took a lot of work and listening to advice, as well as more lurking on here, learning, but I feel confident I can share some new fishy footage. Everything is finally growing and thriving. I just really wanted to share so y'all could see the progress.


----------



## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Beautiful tank and nice recovery. Lots of plants and healthy fish. Thanks for posting.


----------

