# 125g Light Comparison CF vs. T5HO



## Bryeman (Aug 24, 2009)

I just received my 8x39w T5 HO lighting. I'm somewhat color blind, so I took some photos of the previous fixture before I removed it. Here's what the old fixtures looked like (2 CF fixtures, total of 359w)










The next picture is the 8x39w with the bulbs it came with 4-700nm+ bulbs and 4-420/460nm bulbs. One of the bulbs broke though, so the left side of the tank is missing one of the 420/460nm bulbs (7x39w)









First off, I'm glad I took the pictures because what a difference I could see when looking at these pictures. I saw the size of these T5's and I was like, yeah, whatever, but was surprised at how much light they kick out. I actually like the look this gives the tank. I will likely buy two 6500K lights to replace 2 of the 420/460nm lights, but I'm not sure of this yet. This tank was growing great so I'm anxious to see what this will do (hopefully not mess much up). The plan right now is to run the total light period for 10 hours, but only all of the lights will be on midday for a 5 hour burst. I'm just worried running all 8x39w will be too much to handle for 10 hours. Plants were already pearling, but when I turned this on full blast, it was like boiling water the plant were pearling so much!  The leaves of the Red Lotus on the right side of the tank cannot fold down because of all the bubbles under the leaves.

I know running a saltwater setup goes against what a lot of people say, so I'll let you know how that goes. This tank was running great and algae free before this. I'll be honest and let you know how it goes with these. I know the ferts will need adjusting, but I'll be on it. These pictures are in the photos if anyone wants to see bigger pictures (not sure how to do that).

Any feedback, comments, criticism welcome!


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

A 5 hour burst is too much. I began with a 2 hour burst and turned it up and got BBA. I would not go over 3 hours. You're going to have to be careful. Be vigilant about your ferts. You'll have to increase them because your plants will increase their need and mass.


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## Bryeman (Aug 24, 2009)

Thanks for the info. Do you really think it's that much more in reality? Only running 4x39w seems pretty "dark" to me and I'm not sure if that's going to me enough.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

T5HO's are really strong. It made the difference between algae or not in my tank. You can experiment.


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## Bryeman (Aug 24, 2009)

I'll keep an eye on it. I already backed it down to 4 hour burst based on what you said and can go further if trouble develops. It doesn't seem out of control bright, but I suppose that's because the 420/460nm lights put off such a "blue" colored light that's hard to judge. I do EI, so it won't take much for me to keep things in check. Basically wanted to try something different to see if I could get Glosso and HC to grow better. I also wanted to experiment to see if I could grow good plants with the lights that came with it.


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## Bryeman (Aug 24, 2009)

I'd rather be with an animal....

Plants were singing Pearl Jam when I came home today Tex Gal! R. roundifolia is becoming a ground cover in one part of my aquarium it appears (I'll post pictures in a few weeks if the trend continues). I've never seen so much pearling in any of my tanks before. Bubbles a lot farther towards the substrate level on plants too. T5's give off more light than is "visible" to my eyes for sure (which most on this site already have indicated).

You are likely going to be right about the "burst" period, but I'm going to let it ride for a while. I'm carefully monitoring ferts and CO2. I'm waiting for my one replacement bulb to come to help balance our the tank. The "PM" shift, after the burst, is strange because half the aquarium only has the one 10,000k bulb going. That side is red, and the other side is a more balanced color. Plays tricks on my eyes looking at it and frankly makes me sick to my stomach for some reason.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

I don't think there's anything wrong with the longer burst. If someone runs into algae problems after increasing the duration of the more intense period, it's because the ferts weren't commensurate with the increased plant growth. But the faster you ride a bike, the more it hurts when you fall off.  Better keep on top of things! 

Of course, your electric bill and the time you spend trimming may get to you if you really push things.


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## Bryeman (Aug 24, 2009)

My wife is a World of Warcraft junky, so I have plenty of time!

I went with Tex Gal's advice and have shortened to a 2 hour burst. Not because I saw anything wrong, but because there's no need to go longer at this point. Everything is growing good with this setup (except the HC). I was also having some bent/cupped leaves on my Moneywort, so I wanted to figure this out before going crazy with lights. I have not been able to grow HC under any conditions, but all other plants do well with new lighting (even Glosso is so much better). The only thing I would like to try is increasing the burst back to 4 hours at some point to see if HC improves. I currently have 31species in the 125g tank though, so I'm happy since all the rest are doing great.

I did remove one set of the Actinic and now have the following bulbs that I run during the course of the day:

set one is 2-10,000K, 2-420/460nm (actinin)

set two is 2-10,000k, 2-6,000k


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## mos90 (Jul 7, 2009)

i also have a 125g setup with co2 inj. im running 400w cf 6700k's. looks like i have a similar plant setup to yours. heres what a was doing and it didnt work out to well. co2 about 15ppm. no3 -0
po2-1, iron was about .5. the plants were pearling midday, i think i was just lacking ferts and running lights to long at 400w.

8 hours a day i ran the lights. at the full 400w. everything was fine for a while then i got a huge algae bloom, i think the problem was lack of ferts, only dosing flourish and iron ince a week. had a huge outbreak of bga and brown hair, some green on glass but not too bad. 

did a blackout for 4 days and 75% of the algae is gone. bought some quality ferts from greenleaf and started that up about 10days ago. lowered the lights to 6 hours only 200w. i think i too low on the lights now. there is no signs of new algea except some left over brown hair that i need to trim. plants look a little bit like they are lacking light. 

im thinking ill run an 8 hour light cycle with a 2 hour midday burst. all my plants are moderate light plants. does that sound good?


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## Bryeman (Aug 24, 2009)

mos90 said:


> i also have a 125g setup with co2 inj. im running 400w cf 6700k's. looks like i have a similar plant setup to yours. heres what a was doing and it didnt work out to well. co2 about 15ppm. no3 -0
> po2-1, iron was about .5. the plants were pearling midday, i think i was just lacking ferts and running lights to long at 400w.
> 
> 8 hours a day i ran the lights. at the full 400w. everything was fine for a while then i got a huge algae bloom, i think the problem was lack of ferts, only dosing flourish and iron ince a week. had a huge outbreak of bga and brown hair, some green on glass but not too bad.
> ...


If it were my tank, i'd do a 70-80% or better water change to start fresh. I'd run the light for about 8-10 hours with 200w and see if that's enough (probably, but not sure with CF's). I personally use the EI method of dosing, so after the water change I'd start back up with fertilizing at the correct levels. After some EI experience, I'm finding I personally had to make some adjustments. I need to add Calcium after each water change. I then add 1tsp of KNO3 3x per week, 1/8tsp of KH2PO4 3x per week, and 1/4 tsp of CSM+B 3x per week. I was adding 1/2 tsp of CSM+B but that turned out to be way to much for my tank. I'm going to see how the 1/4tsp 3x per week does.


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## mos90 (Jul 7, 2009)

i do a 50% water change every week. i could turn up the lights to 8 hours and try that. 

i am using ei also. i add kno3 1 tsp 3x a week. 1/2 tsp kh2po4 3x,1/2 tsp k2so4 3x and 1/2 csmb 3x. from what u are saying i should cut back csmb to 1/4 and maybe 1/4 tsp of kh2po4 and k2so4.

how did you know the 1/2 tsp csmb was too much? 

also ive been adding 1 tsp kno3 3x a week and my nitrate levels still seem to low at the end of the week. less then 5ppm id say. maybe step it up to 1 1/2 tsp?


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## Bryeman (Aug 24, 2009)

mos90 said:


> i do a 50% water change every week. i could turn up the lights to 8 hours and try that.
> 
> i am using ei also. i add kno3 1 tsp 3x a week. 1/2 tsp kh2po4 3x,1/2 tsp k2so4 3x and 1/2 csmb 3x. from what u are saying i should cut back csmb to 1/4 and maybe 1/4 tsp of kh2po4 and k2so4.
> 
> ...


Everyone's conditions are completely different. Please remember that. What works for me may not work for you. Given all those disclaimers, I would say... that you are likely adding way too much KH2PO4. I add 1/8 or less of this and have sometimes wondered about cutting back even further. I still run tests on my tank with calibrated test kits. I know they're not always extremely accurate, but they will give you a general "feel" for what's happening, which can then be confirmed by watching the plants. If you think your Nitrates are low then you might want to step up the KNO3. I know my Fe was too high because of the tests I run. I could slowly see it build over time. It has leveled off since I do EI, but it's too high for my taste. I will try 1/4tsp 3x week for now and that should get my levels to where I want them. The CSM+B is good from my experience, but I have a lot of non-chelated Iron in my tank as well.


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## mos90 (Jul 7, 2009)

sounds good. thanks for input. ill check phosphate levels tonight and adjust accordingly. 

as far as lights im going to try 8 hours at 200w. if if need more light ill do a 1 hour burst at 400w.


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## Bryeman (Aug 24, 2009)

Sounds like a solid plan to me. I have found in this hobby that lighting drives everything, and has driven me bonkers at times! The lower the light intensity, the more wiggle room there seems to be for "user mistakes". I have found a good light level right now. I'm able to experiment a little more currently and hope to get a real solid dosing program in place soon. Once I have that and understand it better, I can then try other lighting schemes and plants if need be.


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## mos90 (Jul 7, 2009)

i think once you dose ferts correctly all thats left is the proper light schedule. but thats the tricky part. as long as co2 stays ok.


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## Bryeman (Aug 24, 2009)

Just wanted to give everyone an update since I promised I would....

I absolutely love the 8x38w Aquaticlife T5 HO fixture, and no, I'm not affiliated with them. The built in timer is great, and the "moonlight" looks great when the T5's go out (only run the moonlight for two hours). Probably the best tank related buy I've ever made besides the 125g itself!  The fixture came with 4 actinic and 4 700+nm bulbs (10,000K I guess). I have made some modifications to the bulbs and have another one planned. I currently run 2 actinic and 2 10,000k in the morning and 2 6,000k and 2 10,000k at night with all 8 overlapping in the middle for a 2 hour burst. Total T5 light period is 10 hours. Plants are growing what I would consider average for some to excellent for others. I have decided to order 4 of the Roseate bulbs to see what that does. The spectrum is supposed to be heavier to the red output plants use (650nm)although they have not published the spectral graph last time I looked. I will likely replace the 10,000K bulbs because they seem to be the poorest for plants in terms of spectral output. If you look at http://aquaticlife.com/lamps/index.html you can look at the two outputs. Someone tell me if you disagree, but the 10,000k bulb peaks below the "best" red nm and the green output is very high. The actinic has a broad peak in the useable blue range. My plan currently will be the 4 Roseate, 2 6,000k, and 2 actinic. We'll see how it goes. I'm guessing it will go exceptionally well, but we'll see.

I know this ran long, but also want to mention that my HC, Glosso, and 3 other ground covers are doing average (HC, but actually growing now) to excellent (Glosso is spreading like crazy).


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## Bryeman (Aug 24, 2009)

.... Not impressed with the Roseate bulbs, but will let it ride for a few weeks to see results. They seem "dim" but that doesn't necessarily mean anything I guess.


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## A_Shea (Jun 2, 2007)

the actinic bulbs you have will do your plants no good at all. it wont harm them just wont help them grow. They are strictly for salt water reef systems. you should go with a mix any where from 6500k to 10000k. you will get the best growth out of that


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## Bryeman (Aug 24, 2009)

A_Shea said:


> the actinic bulbs you have will do your plants no good at all. it wont harm them just wont help them grow. They are strictly for salt water reef systems. you should go with a mix any where from 6500k to 10000k. you will get the best growth out of that


My 30+ species have grown good with all sorts of lighting, including actinics in my current 125g. I have been experimenting a lot with lighting as of late though. I think your statement is accurate in terms of acheiving excellent/optimal growth. The actinic would work great (at least the brand I had) if bulbs with only red spectal output were available so I could use them along with the actinic.

I would like to find a really great bulb/mix of bulbs. I will be getting another couple of 6000-6700K type bulbs once I find a good kind (spectral output). I see a lot of disagreement over the different T5HO's and what bulbs are considered good. I'm working towards 4 - 6000/6700k bulbs, 2 - 10,000k, and 2 Roseate bulb setup to see what that does. This is by far my best tank, but I like experimenting and want to try and acheive the best growth/look combo I can.


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