# [Wet Thumb Forum]-How to regulate DIY CO2?



## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Anybody have any ideas how to control the amount of DIY CO2 that goes into a tank. I have a 10 gallon and it is hard to get the right amount of [email protected] in the water. I have either not enough or way to much. My kh is 4. Right now I have the CO2 going directly into the intake of my Penguin 125 but wiht a new batch of CO2 it is way to much. Las tnight I got a level of 100 ppm before I disconnected it and stired up the water some. I don't know why my fish did not die but they were not even gasping at the surface. DOn't know. I don't have anyother buffers in the tank. Anyone have anyideas? Maybe something that the co2 goes into (a diffuser) that you can control the amount of co2 that disperses? Can't afford pressurized. Oh if only..........

Dennis Dietz

http://webpages.charter.net/dennisdietz/gallery/Fishgallery.html


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Anybody have any ideas how to control the amount of DIY CO2 that goes into a tank. I have a 10 gallon and it is hard to get the right amount of [email protected] in the water. I have either not enough or way to much. My kh is 4. Right now I have the CO2 going directly into the intake of my Penguin 125 but wiht a new batch of CO2 it is way to much. Las tnight I got a level of 100 ppm before I disconnected it and stired up the water some. I don't know why my fish did not die but they were not even gasping at the surface. DOn't know. I don't have anyother buffers in the tank. Anyone have anyideas? Maybe something that the co2 goes into (a diffuser) that you can control the amount of co2 that disperses? Can't afford pressurized. Oh if only..........

Dennis Dietz

http://webpages.charter.net/dennisdietz/gallery/Fishgallery.html


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## Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2004)

I have a 10gal and 15gal that I use DIY CO2 in. I started out using ceramic air stone to mix in my CO2. Now I use a diffuser. The bubbles are smaller and devolve faster. The only way I find to control a constant CO2 level is by adjusting the amount of yeast and how often I would change out the mix. What I do now using diffusers, is mix 1/4 to 1/3 teaspoon on yeast to 1 1/2 cup sugar. I change the mix out 10 to 14 days. This is working for me. 

Hawk

Trust But Verify «*»®


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## anonapersona (Mar 11, 2004)

You can control DIY in several different ways, generally, but none is all that easy to regulate overall. 

The first is by varying the amount of sugar and yeast you use, using less to start, then changing more frequently. One variation on this is to use the gelatine recipe that limits the availability of sugar at the start.

Second, you can use an input method that has some upper limit on the rate, my DIY power reactor for example will allow some gas to escape if the input rate is really high. Using a water pump that was able to vary the flow rate would give you a similar adjustment. Another way is to use the Hagen diffuser, which has different line attachement sites for more or less travel time on the ramp, for more or less gas absorption at a given flow rate.

Last, you can use the HOB or other surface agitation to blow off the excess CO2 before it damages the fish. That would also include running the HOb witht he water level in the tank a bit low for more agitation, or turning a spray bar upward a bit, or temporarily adding an airstone over night.

I'd suggest, first, toy with the recipe you use, less yeast, then again with less sugar to see if that fixes the problem. Then maybe try the gelatine recipe to slow the initial rate and make the whole thing last longer. Those are easiest to play with. Look into the other things, agitation first, efficiency last as that is not quite as easy to alter.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

I came up with an idea this afternoon. Got it from Discusaigon in an earlier thread.. I will be experminting with a small garden sprayer. Picked it up a home depot for $7. It holds 1.18 liters. I put 300 ml of old Yeast mix. Maybe 2 weeks old. 2 cups sugar, 1/2 teaspoon yeast (fleishmen's), 1 teaspoon baking soda. in the sprayer and will tes the co2 production. Main test is to see how much pressure is created.
I am not sure of the amount of pressure the sprayer can take but I pumped it 200 times and no explosions. A very conservative guess says that each pump creates .5 cubic inches of air in the container. Thats is 100 in3. The sprayer holds approx 72 cubic inches. That equals about 140% pressue in the tank. I wis i could convert that to psi. At 175 pumps the sprayer started to sound different. Like the air was starting to bypass and not allow anymore pressure. If so then thihs is a good thing. No exploding containers. We shall see








I have connected 1/4" air tubing to the nozzle. More about this later, after the initial trials are over. After 15 minutes I have counted the bubbles that come out of the tubing. I have let the pressure build up and I purged the air in the sprayer when I started. Approx 80 bubbles. Enough CO2 for 13.3 minutes at 6 bpm, which I have found to be a good rate for my tank and setup. 
I realize that that does not quite workout but remember that is only 3oo ml of fairly weak yeast solution to begin with, and it is at least 2 weeks old. I believe that if I use around 500 to 700 ml of yeast solution that is twice as strong, I will have one heck of a co2 charge. I also assume that using a higher ratio of yeast to sugar than usual will produce more CO2 initially but will not produce for as long. I typically get 3 weeks out of a standard DIY setup before I need to replace it. It must be remembered, also be me, that my goal is not to make a long lasting mixture but to create a way of controling the amount of co2 injected into the tank.
I believe that with the use of a needle valve in the tubing i will have fairly good control over my bpm rate into the tank. I will also try to find a way to attach a pressure guage inline as well to monitor the pressure in the sprayer. This should also help me determine and test my mixing ratios in the beginning of my little experiment and to monitor the gas production in the future if my plans succeed. 
I will continue to post results of my progress and will post pics as soon as possible. Current cost of the project. $7.oo us.

Dennis Dietz

http://webpages.charter.net/dennisdietz/gallery/Fishgallery.html


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

An update on my little experiment.

First, you can ignore most of my mat in my last post. It was late and I suck at math anyway.

Today I made a contol valve assemble. It consists of a needle valve, few brass fititngs and a pressure guage. Here is how the setup goes. Sorry no pics for a few days. Garden sprayer. it is the small kind with a pump handle and nozzle all attached to the lid. Kind of looks like a small fire extinguisher. I was ale to attach 1/4" airline using a compressoin fitting and the nozzle of the sprayer. The tubing is about 1 foot long and then I have a nipple for the tubing. the nipple is connected to a brass tee (mpt). There is a pressure guage on the top of the tee. Guage is rated for 100 psi. Then there is a shut off valve connected to the third part of the tee. Connected to the shut off valve is another tee(fpt). Connectd to one side of that tee is a needle valve wiht a nipple attached for 1/4 inch line. This line runs into a gas seperator and that runs into the intake of my Penguin 125. On the third outlet of the last tee the is a nipple for 3/8 inch tubbing. A short piece of tubing is attached to that and crimped off.

You might ask, Why all those fittings? Well between what i could scrounge from work and what I could find at my local Hardwere store, that is what needed to make it work. I could not find a simple connecter to go from the pressure guage to the needle valve so I had to use the shut off valve and second tee, to make the fititngs work. I used a nipple and piece of tied off tubing to block the unused outlet on the second tee because the store was closed by then and I did not have plug connector. I did find, as a kind of safety note, the 3/8 tubing would blow off if the pressure went above 45 psi. The sprayer also lets any pressure over 45 psi escape from the pumb aparatus

I mixed a new yeast batch. It consists of 1 cup of sugar and 2 teaspoons of yeast in 900 my of water. It probably is not producing up to snuff yet. It usually doesnot really get going good until about 8 hours for me. I did this a about 8:00 pm so its only been 3 hours. I have found that using the crappy needle valve I am able to adjust he bubble rate from about a steady stream to one bubble every 20 seconds. In the past 1 bubble per 10-12 sec has been good for my water conditions.

Hopefully my mix will create much more CO2 than it sends to the tank, thus creaing some pressure in my generator. I relly do not think that the pressurein the sprayer will ever reach the max (45 psi). Right now it is runnig at 1 b/p 6 sec. and the pressure guage reads less than 5 psi.

Once this test has run its course, I might try a faster, more voilent way of producing hte co2. Perhaps using vinegar and baking soda. Wiht careful experinenting, you could fill the generator with say 35 psi and use that for x amount of time. The possible benefit to that would be that gas production starts and stops almost instantly. ther is no need to wait for the yeast to work (thus less ph swings) and ther would be less guesswork (variables) wiht the yeast method. Yeast prodiction is dependant on water quality, yeast type and age, sugar purity, temperature (definatly am issue in my house this tme of year) ect.

Sorry, just typing outloud again. Well, those are my observations for the evening. Let me know of this is to much and i will post less or something.

the needle valve is not that good. it only cost $4 so it is not as accurate as I would like

Dennis Dietz

http://webpages.charter.net/dennisdietz/gallery/Fishgallery.html


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

BTW, cost of "regulator" parts. $16. Making hte total cost so far $23 plus a little sugar and yeast.

Dennis Dietz

http://webpages.charter.net/dennisdietz/gallery/Fishgallery.html


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## mm12463 (Mar 5, 2004)

Sounds like a cool idea. Keep us posted. Love to hear about it since a real C02 system is not in my budget for the near future.

Mike
http://fish.silver-fox.us


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Mine either.

Here is a morning update... Over night the needle valve kept the bubble output at a consistant 1 per 10 sec. Where I set it after my last post, before going to bed. That was around 12:00 am pH was 7.6 This morning at 8:00 am bubble rate was the same and pH was 7.2. Now for hte promising part.. Last night wene I went ot bed the psi guage read less than 5, this morning it reads about 12 psi. Excellent. My Idea seems to be working. I have increased my b:sac rate to 1 b/p 6 sec. I will check on it around 5:30 after work.

Dennis Dietz

http://webpages.charter.net/dennisdietz/gallery/Fishgallery.html


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Lights on at noon. pH 7.0. Need to get down to around 6.8. Increased buble rate to 1b/p4 seconds. Pressure in contained 10 psi. Shook it up well and pressure went to 20 psi. Buble rate remains constant.

Dennis Dietz

http://webpages.charter.net/dennisdietz/gallery/Fishgallery.html


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## mm12463 (Mar 5, 2004)

Yup your going to need to get some pictures and write this up if it works out this good.

Mike
http://fish.silver-fox.us


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## HitATree (Jun 25, 2003)

Just make sure you don't regulate the yeast CO2 TOO much. I've heard of many cases people experimenting with trying to "control" the output of a DIY yeast CO2......boom!


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## imported_molahs4 (Feb 3, 2003)

Dennis, great idea. I have been waiting on adding DIY CO2 to my 10 gallon, and this may be the solution that I have been waiting for. I am having a hard time visualizing the fittings, so I would appreciate a photo whenever you have a chance.

I eagerly await your next status report...

-Scott
tank specs and bad pictures


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Hi all. Terabilly sorry its ben so long. I have been very busy and on top of that the system had a few bugs I needed to work out. First, my conglomoration of fitings ment that some did not quite fit correctly. Tapered seat fittings don't really work with regular fititngs. So it took me a while to get the time to stop the leaks and to get the right parts and fittings. I sould be able to borrow a frinds digital camera tonight and if so I will take some photos. It also took me a while to figure out the buble rates adnd then I had some issues with my tank itself and all so my original experiment got kind of drawn out adn became less acurate, imo.

But now for an update. All leakes seem to have been resolved. Imixed up a new batch of yeast lastnight at 8pm. 1.5 cups white sugar, 2 teaspoon bakers yeast, 1 teasp. baking soda all in 900ml of warm tap water. Production is insane, but under control. once that solution got cooking around 9:30 I hooked everything up and set the needle valve to get 1 bubble every 3 seconds, a rate I had found worked from the last experiment. At that time my tank kh was 3 and ph was 7.0 for a co2 level of 9ppm. PSI read 0. At 11pm bubble rate was same pH 6.8 and psi was 22.

So far so good. This batch of yeast was much stronger than the last on. I went to bed wondering what sort of pressures to expect. I woke up a 6:30am (not unusual for me) and checked. PRessure was 40 psi and pH was down to 6.6. Co2 level of 22ppm. Much better







Bubble rate had climbed to 1bubble p/2 sec so I adjusted it back to 1 p/3 sec knowing that there was still 7 hours till lights on.

At 10:30 thismorning Ph was 6.6 bubble rate 1p/2 sec and pressure was 58psi! That is more than I thought I would get. Everything is holding fine. I would estimate that my ph will drop down to 6.4 by the time lights go on at 1:30pm It is now noon and bubble rate 1p/2 sec, 58psi and pH about 6.5.

I will continue to take note and keep records of this experiment. I need to do a wc today and I will probably do 50% This obviously will throw off my CO2 levels. As far as the CO2 levels are concerned though, I am finding that very elivated levels are not horrrible. I have hit 100ppm for a short period and my fish never seemed to be stressed. IN the tank now are 7 neons. I will post moe about this later. I might try upping my levels to in the 40's or 50"s and see what happens. I will do this only if i am going to be here for a while though. THe only problem I have wiht that is it means my ph wil go down to 6.2 or so. I do not now what type of long term effects that would have on the fish and plants. Anybody any thoughts?

Dennis Dietz

http://webpages.charter.net/dennisdietz/gallery/Fishgallery.html


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

Finally a pic.










The only thing I need to do now is instead of a hose barb for the line coming from the generator to the regulator assembly I need I compression fititng. Last night when I was moving it around to take a photo of it the fine blew off. It is just regurar airline tubing so I guess it softened a bit and the pressur, it was about 55psi at the time blew it off. That connection is the weakes point of the whole setup. That of couese was at midnight so it really sucked. Other than that everything seems to work fine. I may need to remix my yeast because I just set it outside so my room would not smell and it got down to about 35 lastnight. it is producing but pretty slow. We'll see. Hope you all like it.

Dennis Dietz

http://webpages.charter.net/dennisdietz/gallery/Fishgallery.html


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## WetHeadP (May 13, 2004)

I found a Perfect Receptical for a DIY C02 chanber.

A 11 litre Water Jug.

It's got a nice Screw on cap. 
the caps are generally a soft plastic so poking holes are a snap with a good old Philips screwdriver.

1. Pop two holes. 
2. Put in tubing with a check valve on outside.
3. Wip out hot glue gun.
4. Start the air pump. (note: they can expand quite a bit before the pressure holds. (approx another 2 inches wide)
5. Test for leaks. (dishsoap)

And you can make a BIG batch of yeast (i've been doing 4 cups water 4 cups sugar 1 tbsp yeast)

But most imporntantly (it's steryl) it better be. its your drinking water.









Got any proven High yield C02 mixture recipies?


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