# EI doubts



## Rub (Jul 14, 2005)

Hi,
I have some questions about this method. 
I used NO3k, SO4K2 solutions (separately) and fleet enema as PO4 source (well......is EI modified   .....sorry Tom).
I add NPK 3x week, and Fe (Flourish Iron) the opposite days (3x week). Water changes 50% weekly.
My tank: 96l (80l real) = 25 gal (21gal real). Light: (74wat fluorescent tubes); CO2 inyection (I dont know concentration but my fish will kill me!!!!)
Some photos (in this evening):

*Riccia Fluitans submersed*









*My tetras (I have only 9 and 2 otos) and a "mix plants"....Eleocharis, Glosso, Riccia, Rotala rotundifolia....*









My question is: EI method is based in add NPK in excess (3x week for example) and make water change (50% for example) for "reset" water tank.
Dossage, is the same when you add NPK 3x week? I think that when you change the water, NO3, PO4 and K levels low....then you will add more NO3, PO4 and K ppm in the first dossage, or no???? what routine I could follow????
I´m sorry, but I´m worried.....look at this:

*I think that are "ciano".....*








*.....and green hair algae (you must look very well)*








What do you think??????
Greetings


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

How much of each of the macros (KNO3, K2SO4 and PO4) are you dosing each time? The initial dose after a 50% water change is usually the same as the dosing on the other days and should already give you a good amount of nutrients...

You need to dose trace elements; Flourish Fe is only Iron and does not have any of the other traces. Try dosing with Flourish instead of Flourish Fe. Flourish will normally have enough Fe for your needs.


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

cynobacteria means you run too low on KNO3.


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

I'd buy a comb and comb yoyur hair algae out of the hair grass.
Add a small cup on the bottom and pick the gravel good, get some Amano shrimp also. You need to remove the algae that is present. Nutrients alone will help, but this algae will not respond well to that method.

Attacking it manaually will definitely help and preenuing the plants good and adding the shrimp is about the best method I've found.
You need to add a lot of them, not just a couple.

You can try a 3 day blackout, overdosing Excel etc, but good pruning and replanting will address hair algae quite well.

Regards, 
Tom Barr

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## Rub (Jul 14, 2005)

First: Thanks for your answers.
I say that I choose EI because this method not use test kits  . I dont believe in test kits.
Laith said:


> How much of each of the macros (KNO3, K2SO4 and PO4) are you dosing each time?


 Well......the first dose after water change is 10ppm NO3, 0.5 PO4 and 20ppm K.  Second and third dose is 5ppm NO3, 0.5 PO4 and 10ppm K.


> You need to dose trace elements


 I think that if you makes frecuently water changes, you dont need add traces. I think that my tap water contains traces (traces are traces ¡¡¡¡ppm or ppb!!!).
A link...........very very interesting (read the words of Roger Miller):
http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?q=Y&a=tpc&s=4006090712&f=8796060812&m=9951010611&p=1


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## Rub (Jul 14, 2005)

Tom, what do you think about to add traces in a fertilizing routine? is necesary at all?   
And last (for Tom or anyone  ): would you give some advice about to dose whith EI in my tank? 
Thank you very much to all.
Greetings


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

Sorry but I don't see where Roger is saying that one does not need to dose traces because tap water has everything needed...  he actually talks about how he doses micros...


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## Rub (Jul 14, 2005)

Laith said:


> Sorry but I don't see where Roger is saying that one does not need to dose traces because tap water has everything needed...


 No Laith, you will not see "where Roger is saying......." I dont have say this words.
I said that "I think that if you makes frecuently water changes, you dont need to add traces....." because I think that the tap water contains traces. That is all.
Reading the words of Roger Miller, I have deduced that:
- All the metals dont have the same solubility. Fe is very insoluble whereas Cu and Zn not. Cu is acumulated for example (not low Cu concentration).
- All quelates are not "broken" with a light source. Fe: YES. Other cases: NO.
- Acumlation of Micros= Toxicity.

Is necesary to add micros????
Laith, What micros do you add???? Element concentration please???


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

I think rather than approaching this from the standpoint speculation of potential toxicity, ask yourself "have you seen toxicity due to the other traces?"

I never have using trace additions.

Now ask your self the other side of this issue, "have I seen better improved growth from adding trace". The answer is "yes" across the board for many decades on many planted tanks with many plant species...........

Some tap water many have some extra traces, but to consistent small amounts dosed, this might be tough, also, once a week is not enough for good/best growth for most traces, not just iron alone.

Traces never build up to toxic levels for several reasons, one is the water change and amount in question is very small.

The other is that plants will take up more metals than they need.

Hydrilla clearly does not need 6-8ppm of iron to grow, but it will grow better at that very high level. Seems pretty high? It is. But that is what growth studies have shown (in the science journal Aquatic Botany.

I would add traces and I would add them liberally.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

Rub said:


> Laith, What micros do you add???? Element concentration please???


Currently I'm using Seachem Flourish. The concentrations can be found on Seachem's website at www.seachem.com.


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## Rub (Jul 14, 2005)

Thank you for your answers  
Tom, I like your answer:


> Traces never build up to toxic levels for several reasons, one is the water change and amount in question is very small.


ok, I didnt think in water change helps to reduce traces ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) 
I had a bottle of traces (Hagen Plant Grow) and I can re-used , what do you think about this?:
Composition (%)
Total N: 0.15 
Fe EDTA: 0.26
Mn: 0.05
Zn: 0.003
B: 0.0005
Mo: 0.0007
Cu: 0.0005

Greetings


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

It works fine for the traces............but that is about all it adds, the Nitrogen is not significant really.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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