# 55g dry start.



## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

I am setting up my 55g after moving apartments. I have ordered a variety of foreground plants and have set the tank up with Miracle-Gro Organic potting soil and pool filter sand. The plants were ordered from AquaBotanic. They will be arriving Monday due to a UPS mix-up. Hopefully they will make it over the weekend. I was excited to set it up Friday but oh well.

# 2 of : Cryptocoryne parva
# 3 of : Cryptocoryne wendtii red or green
# 2 of : Dwarf Hairgrass
# 3 of : HEMIANTHUS CALLITRICHOIDES
# 1 of : Hygrophila corymbosa Kompakt
# 2 of : Lilaeopsis mauritius
# 2 of : Marsilea Quadrifolia fourleaf clover

If the dry start takes off I'll fill it in with other plants once filled.


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## Emily6 (Feb 14, 2006)

I like the rocks- should be a good match with the sand and hair grass. Be careful with the HOB filters- they might knock back your CO2. Unless you have a definite desire for HOB filters, I'd suggest a straight-up power head with no frills. I believe Ms. Walstead recommends the Aqua-clear quick filters. I've used them with much success. They're handy when you've disturbed the substrate and need some clarity.


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

I was actually planning on putting the Eheim 2213 from my 37g into the 55g and putting one of the HOB on the 37g. I'm not sure if that gains me anything though.

I do have an extra power-head. I think it is 270gph. Last time I put it in the tank it seemed a little overkill. Any suggestions on sizes of power-head? Should I go with a few small ones? Maybe some way to disperse the jet coming from the power-head.


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## Emily6 (Feb 14, 2006)

Well the Aqua-clear quick filter (I think it only comes in one size- can't remember) was plenty for my 40 gal breeder. I actually trimmed it down as low as it would go and even that was sometimes a little too fast for me. But in short, if you're just looking for movement, one should do it. Once you put a filter on it (it's removable), that will slow it more. Also, despite the snails LOVING it, I never once had a problem with a snail killing the impeller. Not sure what Aqua-clear's secret is there but just another bonus.


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

Just an update

Cryptocoryne parva......Alive. Shedding leaves one at a time but seems to be replacing them to balance it out

Cryptocoryne wendtii red or green......Doing well. Putting out leaves

Dwarf Hairgrass......Rising from the dead. What came in the mail was cooked from the shipping delay.

HEMIANTHUS CALLITRICHOIDES.......Slowly spreading and was in very good condition even after the shipping delay

Hygrophila corymbosa Kompakt.......Was completely cooked mushy and rotten when I got it.

Lilaeopsis mauritius.......Only got one put but they substituted it for a hairgrass on a rock. This hairgrass did allot better than the potted

Marsilea Quadrifolia fourleaf clover......was cooked and mostly dead. Some leaves are coming up. I have no idea how to separate the live portion from the dead. It is all intertwined.

I am having allot of gas build up in the soil now. I poked it full of holes and released the bigger bubbles. I am worried that is will get toxic before I get if flooded and planted with deeper rooted plants.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Do you plan on using larger Crpyt species once you go submersed? They make great specimen plants IMHO.

Too bad about the plants that were cooked; spinach never seems to do well in an aquarium except for snail food. If you're ever in the Nacogdoches area let me know and I can hook you up with plenty Marsilea or Neseae triflora (or red lotus and nymphoides 'taiwan' once you go submersed). For the reasons you just experienced I am gun-shy about shipping plants.


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

I'll look into a big Crypt. I have put a amazon sword in an empty corner to try to keep that corner from going anaerobic. I am worried that it will outcompete my foreground plants once submerged though. 

Thanks for the offer on the plants. If I make it up in that area I'll let you know. I haven't explored Texas much yet. I am mostly stuck in the lab.

I do have some plants in my 37 that will likely get moved to the 55g once it is submerged. The pleco in there is breaking things. I am messing around with dry starting some moneywort and wisteria in there now. I basically threw bare stems in the corner with the sword and ended up with several stems popping up. I am starting to realize that the "Aquascape" of this tank is not going to be too organized. It is mostly blocked off into various experiments right now.


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## Toppy72 (Jan 16, 2005)

It's looking good. HC seems to grow really well before water is put in the tank.


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

Let's hope it stays that way. It has grown since the last picture. Some of the older sections are yellowing a bit. Since this is basicaly a scale-up of Diana's article, I followed Diana's example and mashed up a fert pellet and spread it around. Once the hair grass fills in I'll clean everything up and flood it. I'll put up some more pictures soon.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

That's good that you've got excess plants in your other set ups; it sure makes it easy to play around with different species within a scape.


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

LoL. The fert tabs I spread around must have had some gel base to them. The crushed bits swelled up and look like little black slugs all over the tank. 

Another thing I noticed. Pond snails live just fine in a "dry start" tank. There must have been one on a plant. They are leaving eggs everywhere. 

The tank is covered in black and white slime now.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Hah! You gotta love pond snails; I've a one that I tossed into the Wetland-n-a-Box and while it has stayed very small, there are a few of them in there now.


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

I finally decided to flood the tank. Mostly prompted by a trim of my 5.5g. I was left with a large clump of HM, handful of salvinia, wisteria tips, and some java moss. Here are some shots before the flood.


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

Here are some pictures after I flooded it and added the other plants. The water has yellowed a bit but not too bad yet. I currently just have four shop lights over it with 27W spirals. I need to get a more practical lighting option. The shop lights will be a pain to move once I get fish in there. I just have those pond snails for now.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

With the plants still very low to the substrate you might consider keeping the water about half or less while the plants begin to fill in. This will help with algae competition.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Your tank looks great! I've never seen one started that way before but can I make a suggestion? Not on the tank but your pictures. The next time you post pictures, could you please resize them because they are way too big! I have high speed cable and it still took quite some time for those to load up!


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## lake_tuna (Mar 18, 2010)

Hey,

Do you have any updates on your tank? I'm just setting up to start an 40g b NPT with play sand, and I've read negative things about using sand as a top layer. Yours looked like it was doing well. How is it (and the fish) doing now??


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

Things are going well. THe only fish in there are some multi-generational inbred PetSmart guppies.

The HC from the dry start has thinned out as well as the hairgrass. I'm not sure why, deficiencies, snails, CO2, light... I am guessing a combination. I know I had some deficiencies as indicated by the HM getting holes. 
Hairgrass seemed to die back and has started to grow back in shorter. 
_Lilaeopsis mauritius_ is spreading..... slowly.... 
_Marsilea quadrifolia_ is taking on the aquatic leaf shape and is spidering out into the HC. 
Crypts seem to have died back. THat sward plant still hasn't done much. 
The Wisteria is doing great as always. 
Java moss is starting to green up and grow in.

Another interesting developement is that all my floating salvinia died. I think aphids got the best of them,... or pond snail,.. of the guppies ate the roots.

I have also added a dwarf lilly, some vals, a twisty Crinum, and some narrow leaf hygro.

I did a water change and added some seachem equilibrium to try and address the Ca/Mg/K deficiency causing holes in the HM. We will see if the HC bounces back as well. I know the HM will.

For the sand question. I used pool filter sand, which has much less silt than play sand. It was 15 bucks for a huge bag. I still have 2/3rds of it. I do get some gas build-up under the HC patches and new one of the Crypts. I think the sand may be thicker there of the HC mat is holding it down and trapping gas. I noticed it recently when I added the new plants. If you go with sand I would keep it thin as possible without exposing the under layer of soil. Pool filter sand does come in different grain sizes (I have heard). If you can find the larger grain it would probably work even better. Most of the bad things I have heard about sand is about the play sand, which contains a lot of dust and silt. Filter sand is super clean. I didn't even rinse it, though I still hypocritically recommend rinsing.

Anyways here is a new picture.










I will take more detailed shots once I am sure the new plants take and I hopefully see some recovery in Crypts, HC, and that stupid sword plant.


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## lake_tuna (Mar 18, 2010)

It makes me really weary this bag of play sand.. I'd really hate to clean up the tank if I mess it up! A thin layer is what I keep reading.. I'll decide today if I want to go this route.

Glad to hear your tank is doing well.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Lake Tuna - I used play sand and noticed lots of "dust". I've had it in the tank for more than a year now, but when I eventually rescape the 125 I will not use playsand in the mix. I'd recommend going with a filter sand.

Jark - on the salvinia, I had some die off once and after a few discussions I figured it was becuase of the intense lighting and the lights being so close to the surface. But I also have some in a picotope than gets noticable predated on either by snails or shrimp (the tank is a RCS tank with some pond snails).


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## lake_tuna (Mar 18, 2010)

mudboots said:


> Lake Tuna - I used play sand and noticed lots of "dust". I've had it in the tank for more than a year now, but when I eventually rescape the 125 I will not use playsand in the mix. I'd recommend going with a filter sand.


Hey mudboots,

do all pool filter sands come in the same grit? I actually stopped by a pool store, and they had only one kind. It looked kind of grayish, so I wasn't sure how it would look in a fish tank.


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

I have heard different grits mentioned before but I have only seen the sand I used. In the forums I have seen the color range from tan to almost white.


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## lake_tuna (Mar 18, 2010)

One more question: what are your opinions about planting after you fill up the soil-based tank? I have some plants now that I could use to start the NPT. I'm kinda itching to get it started already. I bought the tank a couple of weeks ago!


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

I know the feeling. An empty tank is hard to look at. You are going to get a ammonia spike starting the tank. If you have enough fast growing plants to take it then it will keep algae down. It all depends how many fast growing plants you start with. Java ferns for example aren't going to help much at first. If you have allot of the baby tears and frogbite it could be fine. If you start now do water changes once you start seeing any algae and get more plants soon. When started my first el natural tank my 5.5 I started with too few plants and got covered by brown dust algae. An army of hitchhiking snails saved me. Then from tiny peices of plants that where in with some java moss came hornwort, salvinia, duckweed, and baby tears. The hitchhiking plants and ramhorn snails prevented total meltdown. I have more of the hitchhiker snails and plants than anything now.


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## lake_tuna (Mar 18, 2010)

Does the ammonia spike happen all the time? I have Walstad's book, and Diana says she sometimes puts fish the day she sets up an NPT.

On a side note, are baby tears supposed to fast growing plants? I have some that are growing OK; they're forming a somewhat loose carpet, but it's not that fast. Older stems have algae on them, too.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

From what I understand, the ammonia spike almost always occurs. Diana prevents it from becoming a problem by very dense planting of fast growing stems and emersed plants. Plants rapidly absorb ammonia from the water, so if you have enough healthy plants they use the ammonia fast enough that it does not endanger the fish.

Even if you don't like the stem plants you need them at first. When the tank stabilizes you can remove them gradually as the permanent plants grow.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

One problem I had was not realizing what "enough" or "dense" meant (obviously objective qualifiers). I've learned enough that the next time I rescape the 125 I'll let the organic substrate soak a few days, then drain and air dry (many different reasons, none of them all that critical), get the entire tank planted and capped in a moist substrate and then add water slowly. The main idea though is what Jark and Michael mentioned; you'll most likely get a hot ammonia spike, but with enough plants already on "go" it will be of no consequence to fish. But the "enough" part is where I got in trouble the first time. Oh well, experience is a great instructor...


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

I think the "baby tears" I have my actually be Micranthemum umbrosum instead of Hemianthus micranthemoides

The Micranthemum umbrosum grows like crazy.


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## lake_tuna (Mar 18, 2010)

Jark said:


> I think the "baby tears" I have my actually be Micranthemum umbrosum instead of Hemianthus micranthemoides
> 
> The Micranthemum umbrosum grows like crazy.


Yeah, I have HM. Looks like i have enough lighting since they don't grow tall. The older leaces do collect a lot of algae, though. Probably too much light!


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

Just a quick update on how the tank is doing. Half of the tank is starting to look organized but the other half is still randomly placed weeds.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

It's coming along nicely, and plants look healthy. Lookin' good!


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## PeterE (Feb 9, 2010)

Awesome lights! They look like they work really well, and I'm guessing the didn't cost that much!  What are they? Great rocks, too.


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

Thanks. The lights are clip on shop lamps from home depot with 27wt daylight or bright white bulbs. They are sitting on top of the glass top. The winge on the top probably blocks a lot of the light but it works. Ya it was really cheap. The clip lights are $5 maybe, and a four pack of 27wt (100wt equivalent? May be 35wt) bulbs $15 it so. 

I want to replace the lights with something sleeker but the nice t5 HO fuxtures are too much and the t5 NO I am afraid won't penetrate deep enough.


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

Here is a latest update. The plants have filled in a lot. The cabomba seems to be on a downward turn right now though. I have been doing more water changes and adding SeaChem equilibrium to keep up with K and Ca deficiencies. The MU also seems to have taken a back seat as well. The vals are exploding now though. They are at the surface and stretching further each day. The tiny lilly plant has become a monster as well.










The main complaint now is I seem to be getting a few types of algae. I get a little staghorn here and there in the long leaf hygro near the surface. The one that worries me is a thin, course, highly branched, algae that is getting into my java moss and entangled in my marsilea. If I can get ahold of it it pulls out in clumps or branched strings. It is not as thick as the staghorn and much greener. It is not slimy and has a rough texture. I am suspecting it is Cladophora algae. Has anyone here had experience with it or know a good fix. From what I can gather it seems to thrive at the same conditions as healthy plants so it is a pain to kill. I have just been pulling what I can out when I see it bush up.


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## 1aqumfish (Jul 28, 2008)

I really like how this tank has grown in.


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## theaznguy808 (Dec 9, 2010)

Beautiful aquarium!

What sort of lights are you using? I'm using similar ones I think (they may be smaller) with a "Y" attachment so that I can house two 23 watt CFL (100 incandescent equiv) in one unit.

Edit: ignore that...haha i just read above >.<

Edit 2: Hey! I'm having the same issue with the algae getting tangled in the java moss! 

One day, it got so bad, I spent two hours just sorting through good java moss (hand picking the algae off as best I could) and ended up throwing out at least a pound of that algae. Mean stuff.


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## dstrong (Feb 13, 2011)

Jark said:


> I want to replace the lights with something sleeker but the nice t5 HO fuxtures are too much and the t5 NO I am afraid won't penetrate deep enough.


Nice tank! I love the lights, I'm sure you could make a DIY CFL fixture for your tank that would look pretty sleek for very cheap and they are very easy to build. By the way the following links are for _AQUARIUM_ reference only. I realize where its from but some _GREAT _DIY lighting comes from grow sites. Most will have to be slightly modified of course but these are the best DIY CFLs I've seen so far.

DIY CFL FIXTURE  (very nice)

DIY FIXTURE 2 (Toned _way_ down of course!)

FIXTURE 3 (maybe 2 of them or double wide)

And who says reefer doesn't make you more creative..

I don't know if your into DIY but I built one kind of like the first one along time ago and it worked wonders for the price.

Also about the algae do you have any shrimps in your tank? If anything they work great for suppressing it. Especially cleaning out your java moss.

You are not running any CO2 correct?


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## ryanm (Feb 9, 2011)

Hi,

I'm new here 

You mentioned earlier about bubbles in the soil. Does that mean something?

I already filled up my tank. I have peat and gravel substrate. And I get bubbles coming from the substrate.

I have't put any fish in the tank yet. I want to make sure they'll be safe. 

It's been running for about 2months now.

Anything new will help. Thanks!!


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

The bubbles cam be from the soil breaking down under anaerobic conditions. It is like aquarium swamp-gas and will smell like sulfur when they hit the surface. Some are normal when setting up a soil based tank but if they continue long term or get so big that they are mixing up the soil into the water you could have problems. Excessive gas could mean that your substrate (soil or gravel/sand cap) is too thick and stopping oxigen from reaching the decaying material in the underlayer. I don't know for peat but for soil you only want an inch of soil (less in small tanks) and a inch of gravel or 1/2 inch of sand.

Another factor is the level of root development in the soil. The roots will bring oxygen and stop the anaerobic gas factory. How heavy do you have it planted? Where you have bubbles are there plants? I mostly got gas during the dry start in an area without a lot of plants. It continued after I flooded the tank but stopped once I got more plants going in that area. If I uproot plants or poke around in the substrate I can still find a few small bubbles here and ther but they are few and far between and don't smell as awful.


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## ryanm (Feb 9, 2011)

got it. thanks jark.

that makes sense. i usually get the bubbles from the center of the tank where i haven't planted yet. i am hoping that my brazilian sword will move in eventually.

i'm still nervous about moving fish in. but thank again.


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## fishyjoe24 (May 18, 2010)

you can get a corallife light fixture 48 inches with normal output bulbs 28w x 2 and it will give you around medium light..


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## decal (Jul 27, 2010)

You get a lot of bubbles initially as the soil/peat compacts. I think a lot of the concerns regarding anaerobic areas are overblown. If you collect fish and plants from outdoors you'll find that most "substrates" are highly anaerobic. Stick your hands in the mud (with or without gloves, your choice ) and pull up the roots of a submerged plant, you'll quickly be assaulted by that familiar sulfurous smell. Yet somehow fish & plants manage to thrive in these environments.

Love your aquarium, btw. Hope my 55g can become half as lovely.


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

I had a 30 inch 2x18W T5 fixture on a 37g. The plant growth wasn't that great. It was my second el natural tank and it had it's own problems though. I wasn't compensating for my sold water. Then I added my 7+ inch pleco and he ate everything. I was conserned that the tank was too tall and the light wasn't getting to the bottom. I felt like the light would have been better on a shorter 29 g tank. That tanks problems were definitely the places fault. Before that I blamed it on the light penetration. I might need to give it another chance if my 55g makes the appartment move this summer. 

I am saving my 30 inch light for if I ever set up a 20 long high tech tank. The 37g tank is no more as of this weekend. I moved the pleco to his own 40g.


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