# Columbus Area LFS input



## evercl92

I'm looking for input from the locals to what they like to/would like to see in their neighborhood LFS. I'm currently working at one (Southeast side, on Hamilton Rd) and I've sorta been asked to help revamp the store and make it more attractive. I've already redone one of the display tanks (fully planted now, of course). 

Do most people like new/different fish/plants? Sales? Sweet looking displays?


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## duchessren

I'm into shrimps and would love to see the "not so normally seen" LFS species. I'm in Dayton, but willing to travel for shrimps. 

-snowball
-bee
-bumblebee
-vampire
-anything other than amano, ghost, or cherry


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## Troy McClure

While it would be great if you could carry a lot of the stuff we want, it doesn't make a whole lot of business sense, especially for LFS in the Cincinnati/Tri-State/Dayton market. It may be a little different in Columbus, but the bottom line is that you cannot afford to have product just sitting on the shelf. It would be great if you carried Seiryu and Ohko stone, or ADA substrates, or some of the AquaticMagic glassware, but to make it worth your while, you'd have to sell it at such a ridiculous price that nobody would buy it. The problem is that the market for what we want is not there, and if it is, it's not a market that is high in repeat sales. It's not like selling fish food and filter pads over and over, day in and day out. If you did in fact carry ADA substrates, and you sold a couple bags to a person, it's very likely you will not sell another bag to that person for at least a year. To compensate for that, you have to have your prices so high that nobody would be willing to buy it, and you would have to keep a very low amount in stock. It's sort of a catch-22. I spoke with the owner of Monfort Aquarium at length about this last night. Most distributors don't carry the stuff in the first place because their number one goal is cash flow, move products, get rid of the stuff that isn't moving.

I don't mean to sound discouraging. That's just the how the business end works. We may not like it, but until the market for the items we wants grows to a point where it becomes feasible and justifiable for business owners to carry in their small stores, there isn't a whole lot we can do. Actually, there is something we can do, and I think your store can certainly help out! I think it's great that your store wants to revamp. If you need help setting up and aquascaping a tank, let us know and we could probably drive out there and lend a hand. I know I would love to do it. If people come into a store and see a beautiful display tank and they are impressed, you'll be surprised how many of them will say "I want that." That's when business savvy and good salesmanship kick in. If you are stocking all the products that went into the tank...$$$! Plus, SWOAPE would have a chance to gain another member! 

It's all about awareness. Most people with a fish tank have never seen a Nature Aquarium, or Dutch-style, or anything beyond a couple of swords or some straggly looking java ferns. The don't know how beautiful and satisfying a fully planted tank can be. I have tried for a couple years to get my brother to put a large tank in their house to no avail. One night he and his wife Jenny went over to our brother-in-law's house and saw his 125gal planted tank. Jenny's only reaction was an awed, "Wow." That's all it takes to get somebody hooked! All you have to do is plant the seed.

I know you've already redone one tank, but here's what I would tell any store interested in getting started: The first thing you need to do is get one good display tank set up in a prominent, high traffic area of the store. The more visible, the better. If people on the street can see the tank through the store windows, even better. Impulsive walk-ins are great. Make sure that your display tank is comprised entirely of products you stock or can order in quickly. Stock and use Seachem ferts, Coralife fixtures, JBJ CO2 equipment, etc. Keep these items close to the display tank. Next, set up some clean, well organized smaller tanks for storing plants for sale. Make the presentation look good. I know it's hard to do with potted plants, but I've seen it done before. Another thing I think that is vitally important is keeping information about plants and planted tanks on or very close to the display and sale tanks. Most people will respond better to honesty than just slick sales pitches. Last night I stood there while the owner of Monfort Aquarium told this kid that if he bought a certain type of starfish, all he's buying is a $15 water test and he couldn't say for certain whether or not the animal would live or dissolve itself. Tell people what can be involved in setting up and maintaining a plant tank, tell them the different levels of planted tanks (low light, high light, etc.,) carry some of Amano's books to show them more enticing pictures. Be creative.

Again, I think what you're doing is great. I wish more stores would do the same.


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## MatPat

Excellent response from Erik. I can't add much to it other than a few personal preferences for what I would like to see in a store:

Those preferences are mainly shrimp, diferent species than the usual Amanos and Cherries, and healthy plants. No specific request on plants other than they are healthy. Stores that sell unhealthy plants actually drive people away from the planted side of the hobby instead of attract them to it. 

As mentioned set up some plant specific tanks. The display idea is good but if the rest of the plants don't look well what is the point? I have watched some stores get in healthy plants from hobbyists and turn them into trash over the course of a week. 

Have handout literature available on the plants care and upkeep and hand them out with plant purchases. Make sure to have some website info/links to sites like this one on the handout so people can get more info if they want it. 

Don't forget a line about SWOAPE (or a Columbus plant club if one gets started) either! In my opinion, there is no better way to gain knowledge about the aquaria hobby than to be involved in a club, even if it is only online involvement


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## MatPat

Troy McClure said:


> Actually, there is something we can do, and I think your store can certainly help out! I think it's great that your store wants to revamp. If you need help setting up and aquascaping a tank, let us know and we could probably drive out there and lend a hand. I know I would love to do it. If people come into a store and see a beautiful display tank and they are impressed, you'll be surprised how many of them will say "I want that." That's when business savvy and good salesmanship kick in. If you are stocking all the products that went into the tank...$$$! Plus, SWOAPE would have a chance to gain another member!
> 
> It's all about awareness. Most people with a fish tank have never seen a Nature Aquarium, or Dutch-style, or anything beyond a couple of swords or some straggly looking java ferns. The don't know how beautiful and satisfying a fully planted tank can be. I have tried for a couple years to get my brother to put a large tank in their house to no avail. One night he and his wife Jenny went over to our brother-in-law's house and saw his 125gal planted tank. Jenny's only reaction was an awed, "Wow." That's all it takes to get somebody hooked! All you have to do is plant the seed.


We have talked to a few stores about doing this in the Cinci area but there just doesn't seem to be enough interest. It may be good marketing for your store since AA is in the area. Some of the SWOAPE members would be more than willing to volunteer some time and more than likely some plants to "aquascape" a tank with. It may even be a good idea for a future meeting in the Columbus area.


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## sarcare

One suggestion I might have, is that you ought to set up a display tank with plants that you are actually selling in the store. There is nothing like being told that the lovely plant they have in the display tank is so rare that you have no prayer in the world of getting one because they are never sold (this actually happened to me up at AA) 

I'd also like to see a good selection of woods--I think ordering a box of that branchy wood would be more economical if it was a lfs, and they could sell it for a pretty penny. I think wood would be less to ship then the pricy rocks. That wood would sell to both the aquascaper and the beginner who just likes the look of wood. Another thing, might be selling some plants attached to the wood--something people with lots of plants find easy, but which might help those starting out. 

As for plant and fish selection, I'd make sure the labels are good. AA has lots of plants and fish, but their labels are non-existant or placed in the wrong place. If the staff has a range of expertise, then it can sometimes be hit or miss as far as getting the correct suggestions for what can work in what lighting set up. Maybe grouping the beginner and low light plants together in the display and moving over to higher light plants. 

Though I live in the middle of Columbus, I don't know much about the lfs on the South side.


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## redstrat

sarcare said:


> One suggestion I might have, is that you ought to set up a display tank with plants that you are actually selling in the store. There is nothing like being told that the lovely plant they have in the display tank is so rare that you have no prayer in the world of getting one because they are never sold (this actually happened to me up at AA)


lol common problem at AA, big loss for them IMO, their plant selection can be pretty sad at times(considering how large the plant section is for an LFS).

I'm not sure about a smaller LFS but I know a place like AA could really benefit from actually marketing planted tanks, it's always seemed to me that the plants were just decoration to them and they dont really support planted tanks. They could really benefit from having some better quality parts such as glassware, CO2 systems, ect... and showing a display tank that isn't 200gallons(not that I dont like the tank I just think it can be intimidating to begginers, seems like a HUGE tank is the only way to go) with an aquascape and the equipment visible to show what can really be done with plants. It seems to me they try but its only a half assed attempt and they are in a possition to really create the market in columbus. What really cracks me up about that place is their display tank includes a pressurized Co2 system with a monitor and reactor so they realize the importance of this equipment but they can't even recomend places to buy such equipment.

I guess the best suggestion I have is to use your display tanks as a means to market your products. Actually carry every product used in your display tanks. have display tanks that show low-tech, high-tech, shrimp farms(if you sell shrimp). When explaining concepts to customers use your display tanks, show the equipment but dont make it seem overwhelming to beginners. I would also have books like Amano's nature aquarium world series and others to showcase other aquascapes, even if these books aren't for sale just something to look at in the store.

Another Idea would be to have a grow out tank in the back, aquire some uncommon plants from here or donations and grow them for sale in the store. This would be a cheap way to compete with AA, carrying plants they could never dream of. I'm not really sure how feasable it would be but I can't imagine it would be any worse than having another display tank.

Just my two cents


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## Six

I'm gonna be the stink in the mud here.

First of all, where on Hamilton Road, _exactly_?

If it's near, or semi-near where I am thinking, off 70 going south on Hamilton, you're going to have low end clientel. The area is not "well off" and you're going to need (NEED) to plan accordingly if this is a public place (ie- not your home).

Sure, you'll pull commuters in, bu not enough to carry high end equipment. Go to Petland and ask them how many items they have stolen. They've had numberous birds and dogs stolen from that exact location in the recent past (a few years, if my memory serves me right).

The store is going to need to have a gradual shift in technology. If you're going to only have ADA equipment, you are not going to get many walk-in sales.

Wait, are you talking about Petland? There's no way they would revamp their store without going through their big wigs in Chillicothe. Hrm, well if the place is a home and can be opened via request only, these problems wont really exist.

So I guess... what type of "LFS" is it going to be? Plant only? Hydroponics? Pet store? Fish only?

That will dictate what items to bring in.

Also, doesnt ADA have a strict policy about wholesale and resale? If you buy wholesale you can't resell for over 'x' amount? That would make me wary about ordering. For one, they are going to be, more than likely, more expensive than what you can get online and no one but online hobbiests will know what a tank like that is worth. Unless of course you have massively awesome displays. 

I think you can make it work, I'm just at a loss as to what to tell you to stock not knowing more info. I grew up in Reynoldsburg and worked different lfs in Columbus, so I have some insight.

GL


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## evercl92

Six said:


> I'm gonna be the stink in the mud here.
> 
> The area is not "well off" and you're going to need (NEED) to plan accordingly
> 
> Wait, are you talking about Petland?


Couldn't have said it better. Yeh, that's the area, that's the store. I definitely don't see us bringing in high-end products. ADA products and specialty shrimp are pretty much not an option.

I'm more looking for something low-medium end that would change the look/perception of the fish dept there. I've changed the minds of alot of people who have came in, and several have came back in asking for me personally. The biggest problem is that I don't have alot to work with. Most of the fish stock comes from a local wholesaler, but may or may not get new species each week. Sure there's the staple tetras, barbs, mollies and such. But as for oddities, rope fish, FW moray eels, FW rays... those vary week to week. Plants are ordered from the same place that AA orders theirs. I just need to justify getting plants that aren't really common (anacharis, cabomba, amazon swords, etc).

The place was in disarray when the main manager and I started. The first task we had was removing 2 inches of hair and brush algae from 85% of the tanks. Things got pretty bad. It has since perked up at a decent pace.


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## MatPat

evercl92 said:


> Plants are ordered from the same place that AA orders theirs. I just need to justify getting plants that aren't really common (anacharis, cabomba, amazon swords, etc).


The common plants would be just fine as long as you can keep them healthy in the store and provide the info folks will need to grow them! Just providing some written info would be a major step over the LFS in most places. Things don't always need to be exotic to bring people in and keep them coming back 

If your store can keep them healthy and give some hobbyists some decent cash/store credit on trades you will soon be able to get plenty of less common plants in the store.


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## Six

Hrm, well, you've got a lot of work on your hands. 

With it being a pet store it's going to be hard to get your managers to allot time and effort towards fish/plant care. AA has similar problems, although their's stems from having lost one of their best plant people. I too agree that they need to push more planted tanks on hobbiests (sorry, but you have to sell planted tanks as a type of tank, like a reef or fish only reef. most customers see plants as an extra decoration, not a living thing they can manipulate).

My suggestion is, get a nano tank started, low tech, high light and simple layout. This will pull people into the idea of getting a tank started and how they can aquascape it. Nano's are easy to get people interested in (space and time are/seem less and thus are an easier sell). 

Otherwise, if you can find the space getting a c02 system on a tank and having it set up as a strict!!!! display tank with only you as it's keeper, aquascaping it nicely using wood and rock and SIMPLE stocking (a few large schools, maybe 3-4 species of fish). It is IMPORTANT that one person takes care of the tank or else it will end up overfed and overstocked. If they are unwilling to do this, the idea will not fly for long.

AA used to get in transhipped orders (varigated anubias, red cabomba, etc) but like i said, the passion there isnt the same. they hardly sell planted tanks as a TYPE of tank, but plants as an accessory. if you can change that, show the simple but exciting examples that are always the same everytime the person comes in (as i said, simple stocking and one person adding/caring for it) they will hopefully sell themselves.

GL. Petland is a hard nut to crack.


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## evercl92

Well the good news is, I'm the only one that's supposed to touch the display tank. It's pretty much mine. It's a standard 125gal. Manager wanted to bring in discus, in a few weeks. It's been fishless for almost 2 weeks now. I did throw some MTS and ramshorns from the planted-sell-from tanks though. The biggest issue with this tanks is: 
lighting - 2 x 40wt CF (that are prob way old), 3 x 75wt (or maybe 150wt, I'll have to look today) MH bulbs (also prob way old)
CO2 - none
Ferts - Kent FW fert. It's the only thing we stock. I'm trying to get them to bring in at least a Seachem line of products
Filtration - overflow box, that the water falls about 6 ft (in pvc piping) into a 5 gal bucket, with biomedia, into a 50gal open-top aquarium that's about 1/2 full, and pumped back up into the tank, through powerheads. I'm seeing huge CO2 outgassing, even if I did get them to order a CO2 system.


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## redstrat

Six said:


> Hrm, well, you've got a lot of work on your hands.
> 
> With it being a pet store it's going to be hard to get your managers to allot time and effort towards fish/plant care. AA has similar problems, although their's stems from having lost one of their best plant people. I too agree that they need to push more planted tanks on hobbiests (sorry, but you have to sell planted tanks as a type of tank, like a reef or fish only reef. most customers see plants as an extra decoration, not a living thing they can manipulate).
> 
> My suggestion is, get a nano tank started, low tech, high light and simple layout. This will pull people into the idea of getting a tank started and how they can aquascape it. Nano's are easy to get people interested in (space and time are/seem less and thus are an easier sell).
> 
> Otherwise, if you can find the space getting a c02 system on a tank and having it set up as a strict!!!! display tank with only you as it's keeper, aquascaping it nicely using wood and rock and SIMPLE stocking (a few large schools, maybe 3-4 species of fish). It is IMPORTANT that one person takes care of the tank or else it will end up overfed and overstocked. If they are unwilling to do this, the idea will not fly for long.
> 
> AA used to get in transhipped orders (varigated anubias, red cabomba, etc) but like i said, the passion there isnt the same. they hardly sell planted tanks as a TYPE of tank, but plants as an accessory. if you can change that, show the simple but exciting examples that are always the same everytime the person comes in (as i said, simple stocking and one person adding/caring for it) they will hopefully sell themselves.
> 
> GL. Petland is a hard nut to crack.


Very well said


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## Six

thanks davis 

evercl- with the overflow, urg... i dunno if i'd even try to do a display plant tank in that. maybe a simple fern/moss tank? they like moderate flow anywho. plus those are 'easy' and will sell well if you can get them in for decent prices. making a display with a tank that isnt ideal for plants is not going to bode well with the customer base. it will be confusing for them and real plant nerds that come in will look quite oddly at a plant tank with an overflow. 

discus...? bleah... well i guess those would be flashy. IMO a big school, or couple of schools, of just about any small tetra would look great, then *maybe* a couple discus. the big fish will scare the little guys into schooling and only havign a few will leave a decent bioload for schoolers.

 HTH
GL


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## dennis

Not to butt in but tanks with overflows will grow plants just fine. I have seen several very attracting tanks that used overflows and they worked great. A little thought into the sump and return will solve most sump issues. Overflows on large tanks can actually be nice as the tank itself maintains a steady level and any evap. happens in the sump itself. Its also nice to be able to hide heaters, probes, and CO2 diffusers in the sump. Personally, with the setup it sounds like you have, an inline CO2 reactor right after the return pump would be best. A small powerhead in the sump itself and dose you greg watson ferts dry into the sump.

3x150 MH is very adequate for this setup. Use them for a noon burst and the other lighting is simply for viewing for the store hours. One thing I have learned from talking with lots of people unfamiliar and very new to the hobby, jungle layouts with lots of plants have a much greater WOW factor than more artistic NA style. If you want to increase business and promote the plant hobby, give the customer what they want not what you find most attractive. Well laid out and professional looking tanks with healthy, full bunches of plants for sale will go farther than the main WOW tank.

<.2>


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## evercl92

Personally, I'd rather see a large school of cardinals in the tank, with a couple bigger fish - smaller angels maybe, discus i guess. I think that would look best, especially in a tank that's 6ft long. 

I appreciate the scaping ideas Dennis, that's kinda what I did. Large forest of contortion val on the right though some of it is melting. A patch of crypt (undulata I think) on the left side, with a background of l repens. Centerpiece driftwood with anubias nana / bateri. Lilaeopsis mauritiana in the center foreground, with a couple banana plants to the side. An amazon sword is on each side of the driftwood. 

It looks decent now, but it certainly will look better when it fills in - in a month or so.


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## t2000kw

evercl92 said:


> I'm more looking for something low-medium end that would change the look/perception of the fish dept there . . .
> The place was in disarray when the main manager and I started. The first task we had was removing 2 inches of hair and brush algae from 85% of the tanks. Things got pretty bad. It has since perked up at a decent pace.


The thing that keeps me out of the Chillicothe Pet**** (four more letters, rhymes with "sand" and they have a store and HQ where I live in Chillicothe, but I don't want to mention the name of the store) is that the fish are not in good condition. I've watched expensive fish die a slow death, rotting fins or heads, ick, and other problems that tell me I wouldn't want any of their fish. I've bought them before, and run them through an observation and quarantine tank, but I feel that they are overpriced and low quality. I can handle the price if the quality is there to save me a trip to one of the Jack's locations.

I wouldn't buy any of my angelfish from an LFS. I haven't seen good ones anywhere yet. I got mine from someone nearby (he works at the same place, Kenworth Truck Co.) for a decent price and great quality. Again, the price wasn't the issue, it's just that they looked so healthy that I was sold on angelfish right then.

If you were to have your fish put in an observation tank(s) and possibly treat them ahead of time for ick and the like as a prophylactic treatment (some species, anyway), it might improve how the fish look when they are on display. Or, put a sign on a tank when the fish are "ill" and need to be specially cared for so they aren't "available" for sale.

One thing I also don't like to see is a common water filtration system. I don't suppose you will be able to set something up for individual filtration for each tank, but it keeps disease from spreading (something I've also seen at Pet****). It also plays with the temperature between tanks to some extent. It makes it difficult to keep one warmer than another on the same bank of filters.

In short, if you have healthy specimens and the tanks look clean and have a few plants, you should be able to improve sales in your location.

To address the theft problem, consider some dummy (or real) video cameras. The dummies are cheap (I've seen them as low as $10) and look real and might discourage some from stealing things.

If you get your location in shape I would like to know and come by and see it next time we're in the area. You can PM me when you're done improving the store.


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## Six

^ i think youre expecting too much from a petland, t2000. evercl92 is VERY limited in space, time, and money so i dont think you'll see an improvement withint he store that makes you say "whoa". not saying the effort wont be there, but sometimes even the most effort cant change a very strictly run chain pet store (expecially one that relies on dog sales to run, not fish sales). 

I've never run an overflow system on a plant tank, so i dont know hwo well it actually works. all i know is if a store was trying to sell me plants and tell me they know what they are doing in keeping them, i would be wary if their only plant display had a massive overflow on it. if the tank looked good and it worked, well i guess i'd be wrong. AA uses a dutch overflow system (filter boxes molded in the tank with a sllllow overflow and return), and it obviously works, so maybe it will work. im just saying, how many people would recommend an overflow system on a plant tank here on APC? probably none. i just would never set up a adisplay tank with components i wouldnt recommend. it will end up pissing your knowledgable or serious customer base off (ie- AA's issues many times). 

anywho, i think you can make some difference, but in a pet store its going to be difficult. 

we'll have to stop by soon to take a peek though.  gl


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## evercl92

Yeh, I'm quite limited on what I can do with it. If I can find stuff laying around, I can use it, but special order prob won't happen. The display tank wasn't really setup with plants in mind. (not sure why they needed so much lighting though). I'm battling the vals melting some still, crypts look like they are bouncing back though. Also got some green algae growing across parts of the gravel. 

I don't see a "whoa" happening either. I don't think that's feasible. I do see it being a "that looks nice, I want something like that". 

If you do decide to visit, ask for Tim. There are two Tim's, so ask for the shorter one. I'm pretty consistent being there on Tues-Weds-Thurs and some/most Saturdays. Also there tomorrow.


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## t2000kw

Our local store in Chillicothe is a big one, recently nearly doubled in size with a decent aquarium section. But as you mention, this chain is more geared to quadruped sales, not fish sales. 

There was one fellow in there who really cared about the fish, but he admitted he was very limited in what he could do. He did get discus in there but he said that the quality of fish bought from suppliers was sometimes very poor.

I was in there today for supplies and noticed that their fish looked a lot better (the ones I looked at, anyway). 

One thing I don't like about their store is their prices--much higher than Jack's Aquarium or PetSmart, and I'll often travel to Columbus for better quality, service, and price. Quality, service, price--pick any two--no longer needs to be accepted by the consumer in this industry. 

Hopefully our friend in the Columbus store can at least keep the fish tanks clean looking and look after their health better than most of the other stores in that chain. The one on West Broad St. in the shopping center with Harbor Freight Tools and Joann Fabrics had very poor looking fish and tanks and we refused to buy their neon tetras even though they were on sale for 88 cents each several months ago. I believe they all had ick. Plus, add to that the common filtration system and you know what that means for the other tanks on the same bank of filters. 

I would buy more form the Chillicothe store if they kept their fish in good health. I have bought a few fish from them but I always quarantine the fish for a week or two to make sure they don't come down with something. But I've spent 10 to 20 times as much money at Jacks, Jeff's Pet Center (South High Street), and PetSmart in Columbus than in my town. 

For the store employee wanting to make his store a better one--do you have a small amount of space you could devote to used equipment like tanks and stands? If you buy at a low price and sell at about 30-60% of new prices, you can make a decent profit on your store's investment. Jeff's Pet Center is where I bought my older style 100 gallon tank (fair condition, some scratches but no leaks) for $60 and a like new 55 gallon iron stand for $30. I've sold him some stuff and I can tell you that he pays less than half (probably 30-40%) of what he will sell it for. But that's good for the next buyer because the prices are low compared to new prices. If you had storage in the back of the store you could keep just selected items and mention them to people who are looking at new tanks or stands and are not sure they want to buy or not that day. A low price on a good used one might make a sale that day at your store! Just a thought. Your store might have a policy against that.


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## Burks

I just got back from Columbus and of course I had to visit AA.

Had a nice chat with a worker over their planted tank display behind their plants for sale section. Really a knowledgable employee, forgot to get his name though! Was told the tank behind the plants for sale section was lit with NO lighting. Impressive. We chatted about some of the rarer plants in the tank and I ended up buying some Purple Cabomba and Echin Tenellus. Plant selection wasn't half bad. I just wish there were more Crypts for sale.

They had soooo many fish I wish I had room for. Beautiful Amano's and some nice looking RCS. RCS were a bit expensive but the Amano's were reasonably priced. 

It's only the second time I've been there but man...with that Fish Club membership it's worth the $50 lifetime membership if you live close. If only there was an AA in Toledo....


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## Six

t2000kw said:


> Quality, service, price--pick any two--no longer needs to be accepted by the consumer in this industry.


very true. also, most consumers arent hobbyists, they are people looking to buy a "moving picture". fish are thought of as replaceable toys by many consumers.



> neon tetras even though they were on sale for 88 cents each several months ago. I believe they all had ick.


then the mark up is, well, less than 3x then there is a good chance the people caring for the fish arent getting paid well and thus dont really care about fish all that much. many stores use fish sales to get people in the store.



> do you have a small amount of space you could devote to used equipment like tanks and stands? If you buy at a low price and sell at about 30-60% of new prices, you can make a decent profit on your store's investment. .


but, when the tank cracks and or leaks, who is held accountable? most places dont sell used tanks b/c who knows how good the seams are, or what kind of stand, if any, its been on. IMO people who look for cheap tanks know better than to buy retail and should join a local club to get one off a fellow hobbyist.

sorry to be so pessemistic, but having worked fish retail, these sceneros occur all the time.


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## Six

Burks said:


> Had a nice chat with a worker over their planted tank display behind their plants for sale section. Really a knowledgable employee, forgot to get his name though!


AA has a decent knowledge base if you find the right person for what youre interested in.

I was in there the other day and they had some LARGE bamboo shrimp in. tempting if they werent so hard to breed!


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