# BGA, just plain annoying, need advice



## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Hey guys. Tank is almost fully "mature", but im battling bga outbreaks on gravel and java moss. Put a powerhead in today, not crazy powerful but enough to get a light current. I've heard the only way to get rid of bga is blackout and maracyn. I don't want to blackout the tank, and im hesitant about antibiotics. I did a 45% change today, and there's plenty of plants.

I'm tired of it growing back completely, and covering the gravel in a single day. Help?


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## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

Same BGA boat here 

I wouldnt mind a blackout, but a round of antibiotics for my 200G would cost way too much and i'm afraid of killing my cycle (too many fish at risk). I have added a 400GPH powerhead with a pre filter, and it didnt do much. Maybe i'll get another one.

Excel doesnt do anything to it. Algae eaters dont eat it. I vacuum it from my susbtrate everyday and the next day its worse. It covers the leaves of even the weedest of weeds: C. Submersum...

I have a little experiment going on a 15 Gal with an established Aquaclear 200 HOB. I put in some Ramshorn snails and BGA-infected C. Submersum. I feed the tank some fishfood about everyother day. At first the BGA went all over the place, but after about 2 weeks, BGA is dissapearing. Snails are multiplying like crazy and they SEEM to be eating the BGA. Either the Ramshorn are eating the BGA or an essential nutrient is getting depleted (i doubt it, cause BGA grows on nothing); OR there is some BGA killing bacteria in the established filter


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

BGA can be linked to having an ammonia source leaching into your tank (organics in the substrate), but I'm sure that's not the only thing that can bring it on. Check to see if there are any decaying materials in that area that can be removed.

In the past, I've used Hydrogen peroxide squireted directly with a dosing syringe to kill it. After a couple minutes after squirting it, it'll start bubbling and within 24 hrs will be gone.

You can also dose the peroxide directly into your tank at 2-3 ml/gal. BUT, keep in mind that it will kill most or all your beneficial bacteria that it touches and can also damage more sensitive plants. (It is an oxidizer. )

I would say that if you have a heavily planted tank, the antibiotics would be a first choice. The reason is that, with many plants to do the water filtering for you, you don't really need the bacteria...they are just supplemental.

-Dave


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Yeah my only problem with the antibiotics is i have malaysian trumpet snails and i've heard the antibiotics may/may not kill them off, and i'd prefer not to risk it. Input?

Also, i think im going to try squirting the hydrogen peroxide on it.


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## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

davemonkey said:


> BGA can be linked to *having an ammonia source leaching into your tank *(organics in the substrate), but I'm sure that's not the only thing that can bring it on. Check to see if there are any decaying materials in that area that can be removed.


Don't we all have decaying materials in the substrate?
I guess its all about the quantity... i may have too much.



> I would say that if you have a heavily planted tank, the antibiotics would be a first choice. The reason is that, with many plants to do the water filtering for you, you don't really need the bacteria...they are just supplemental.


I guess i have to go the way of antibiotics. To be honest, i have never detected an ammonia reading. (i used to have a Live Ammonia meter and have tested afterwards). So even if i do have a high ammonia producer in my substrate the plants and/or filter quickly take care of it. BUT as you mentioned, the dissolved organics have to be causing trouble. i dont think the filter/plants do much about them and although i do partial gravel vaccums, i have not done a thorough one in about 2 months.

Thanks!
(and sorry for hitchiking on this thread, but i think its more beneficial to have one thread with more information and sharing of experiences, than to have countless threads with fragmented information about the same issue.)


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## clearleaf (Oct 4, 2008)

The consensus I've found on BGA is that it thrives in low-nitrate, low-flow, and high "organic waste" conditions. 
I have a 10g gravel-capped topsoil tank that has been living with BGA since month number 1 or 2. It really started to take a foothold, and I had dealt with it years ago on my first planted tank and didn't want to again, so I went out and got maracyn. 
However I never used it, I just vigilantly vacuumed as much detritus as I could, trimmed plants to improve flow, and upped my dosage of nitrates. And shook my unopened box of maracyn at it menacingly. This seemed to do the trick. Granted, I always have little spot here and there, but it has never gotten out of hand. I think good hygiene is sufficient.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

I personally have never found any correlation to BGA with flow and low nitrates. I've seen the stuff develop in high flow as well as low flow areas same with BBA. High organic-waste with insufficient bio-filter absolutely.


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## geeks_15 (Dec 9, 2006)

I've had success getting rid of bga with 3 ways.

1. I had a 10k bulb and a 6700 bulb. I switched the 10k to a second 6700 and the bga went away pretty quickly.

2. I have waited it out. I kept doing my normal routine with a heavily planted, CO2 injected tank, non-fertilized, medium light (according to what grew well for me) tank. Water changes every 2 weeks. After a while (weeks) the bga started to decrease and eventually it just went away.

3. Another way to get rid of all sorts of algae is to add duckweed to the tank (did he just write that? :scared. Duckweed can shade the tank to a lesser degree than a blackout, it sucks up lots of nutrients, and I have accidently added it to many tanks only to see all sorts of algae slowly disappear. Keep in mind that once you add duckweed it can be very hard to get rid of. It can also become a pain, because it shades the tank and gets all over your hand/arm every time you put it in the tank. It is adding a problem to get rid of another problem, but duckweed is a natural water purifer so you could do worse.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Sounds good, the gravel vaccuuming is definitely going to increase, and im tryin peroxide today, ill let you guys know how it goes. 

And f1ea, don't worry about hijacking, i appreciate hearing im not alone!! 

Has anyone heard/know anything about maracyn killing Malaysian trumpet snails?


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## mos90 (Jul 7, 2009)

i had a pretty nasty outbreak a few months ago. my n03 levels were around 25 so that wasnt the issue. to this day im not sure why it started. maybe low co2 levels. all i did was 4day blackout and it was gone. after that started some dry fert dosing along with excel 3x a week @ 2x doses and i havent had a problem since. 

even ive found the for some odd reason i dont need to add any kn03. my n03 level are always 20-30. even after a 50% water change they still find there way back to that level after a few days,and i vacuum 1/2 the substrate per water change once a week. maybe i dont clean my canisters enough. 


and excel does kill brush algea very effectively, just wanted to throw that in. but still have some minor gsa on the glass after a few weeks.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi flashbang009,

I got rid of my BGA by removing as much as I could manually. Then I dosed 1/8 tsp of KNO3 per 10 gallons daily. Did a 33% water change weekly. It took about 4 - 6 weeks to get rid of it. My BGA tends to show up when I let my nitrate level drop.


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## berniekooi (Jan 26, 2009)

I am dealing with BGA right now, relatively mild though. It stopped growing after I added a bit of excel to it. Its a shrimp tank so I can't go crazy with excel or else I'll just end up with a dead tank.


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## fish dork (Dec 5, 2007)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi flashbang009,
> 
> I got rid of my BGA by removing as much as I could manually. Then I dosed 1/8 tsp of KNO3 per 10 gallons daily. Did a 33% water change weekly. It took about 4 - 6 weeks to get rid of it. My BGA tends to show up when I let my nitrate level drop.


X2 This is exactly what I do as well. I have the same problem. Every time my nitrates drop a little I get it. I've done blackouts for 4 days with no effects on most plants (My glosso wasn't totally established and it melted) or fish. The blackouts work great but the nitrates (in my case) have to be increased to keep it from coming back.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

The part i don't get is i though cyanobacteria used nitrates, (i.e. when your nitrates were low, bga was present), so i don't get how increasing nitrates helps?

In other words isn't the nitrate drop caused by the bacteria, not the bacteria caused by the nitrate drop?

Also, i tried hydrogen peroxide, and i used a pipette, and spot treated with 75 ml, on my 75 gallon tank last night. This afternoon, all areas i treated were completely clean!


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi flashbang009,

BGA is a bacteria that produces it's own food through photosynthesis, just like a plant. The algae does not cause the nitrate drop but the nitrate drop can create conditions that allow it to flourish. It seems to be like most algae types and takes advantage of conditions that are out of balance.


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## addicted2reefin (Oct 2, 2009)

i have went through a nasty outbreak of bga and hair algea. i took down the tank and resubstrated(is that a word?). i have a few spots on the new substrate so i added a small koralia 1 in my 20 gallon. heres my observations on cyanobacteria(bga) in my reef tank, yes we have a "bga" too! its red tho, but its cyanobacteria. cyanobacteria showed up in our reeftanks with phosphates exceeding .02ppm. in my tank currently, i have what you would call a "nutrient poor" system. no3/no2/ammonia/po4 are all undectable. yet i have noticed cyanobacteria appearin on the substrate, and other "low flow" areas. a sure fire way for this to never appear in your tank is to blast it to the point it cannot attatch to anything, but that would be counterproductive in our planted tanks. Since i noticed the cyano in my nutrient poor system, i have een dosing vodka, which is a source of carbon for bacteria. the logic is bacteria utilize nitrate and phosphate and are then skimmed out of the system, which is irrelevant here tho. it seems that the cyanobacteria is thriving with no other nutrients but a source of carbon. i have been adding "microbacter 7" from brightwell to combat the cyano. my logic behind that is to add bacteria that will "fight" the cyano for the carbon, after day 9 of the treatment the bacteria additions have been workin, along with less carbon additions. 

if u want to fight the bga/cyano, try turning co2 off for a few days, and add a bacteria source.


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## flashbang009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Well, I added a koralia powerhead (thats lower rated than my tank ) and started using hydrogen peroxide. I spot treated, but with a total of 2 ml/gal when all was said and done. I treated the areas of substrate that had them....and the next day....IT WAS GONE. and i don't mean spotty, it was completely gone. And it didn't come back. With only adding the hydrogen peroxide and a better water flow, i seemed to defeat it. Now im dosing macros, which include nitrate, so it shouldn't be coming back anytime soon!!


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## F1_Cobra (Nov 8, 2009)

I've had great success using hydrogen peroxide...pretty muchs wipes BGA out everytime i've used it.


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## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

Wow... 2ml /gal of H2O2 did the job? i am definitely tempted to try it. 
So far i have only used H2O2 to clear it very locally, but never reaching "global" tank concentrations. The only inverts i have are Ramshorn snails and i doubt they'll die with this treatment. The Ramshorns do eat BGA, i've seen them, but they are kinda slow at it.

So far, i have had some mild encouragement with the following: dosing 5ppm KNO3 3x a week; increased circulation flow (in fact i will remove the media in the powerhead quick filter and only use it when in need to clear the tank); removed part of my tank cover to lower temperature (and increase oxygen). With this, i think i can say i've gotten rid of about 1/3rd of my BGA. By next week i should be able to have/show some definite trend..... 

One thing is certain: the title of this thread is spot on accurate. BGA, just plain annoying!

Regards


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## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

My BGA is dying!!
I did what I mentioned above (5ppm KNO3 3x a week, Excel, flow, some oxygen) and there is no more BGA growing on the substrate, the last of it is completely dying and it isn't growing back. There's some left on some plants, but nowhere near what I had.

Another thing I did was, I got a 5x school of Corydoras trilineatus, and I saw them eating BGA. Also the Ramshorn snails eat a little, but the cories eat lots of it. I thought they might get sick from it, but after 5 days they're still good.
Anybody seen cories eat BGA?? Mine do.

But I think removing the insert from the quick filter was the most relevant. I had been dosing the KNO3 and excel for about 2 weeks to no noticeable results...
Now all I have to do is arrange the plants so they aren't "combed" by the outflow.

Regards


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