# Help needed in making a Trace Element mix



## pasion (Aug 20, 2009)

Hello everyone!

First of all let me make it absolutely clear that I'm a no no when it comes to
chemistry my main subject is computer science but my hobby ask me to rub
shoulders with chemistry every now and then. I want to prepare a Trace Element
Mix for my 45G planted tank.. after going through an exhaustive search on the
net I found that I need to have Fe, B, Mn, Zn, Cu, EDTA for that, I manged to
get hold of the following

Ferrous Sulphate FeSO4 (For Fe)
Manganese Sulphate MnS04 (For Mn)
Zinc Chloride ZnCl2 (For Zn)
Copper Carbonate CuCO3 (For Cu) (not sure if I really need copper 
since I think its toxic isn't it?)
Cobalt Sulphate CoSO4 (For Co)
Boracic Acid H3BO3 (For B)
EDTA

First of all am I on the right track here? I've got all the above in quite good
quantities (250gm each approx) now what I want to ask is how should I go about
mixing them (quantities) in a brew which is beneficial for my planted tank and
still safe for my fish I've got few gouramis and tiger barbs in there.

Any help in this regards will be greatly appreciated.


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## Bunnie1978 (Sep 29, 2009)

You might be going at this a bit more complicated than you need to be. Aquatic plants are generally very adaptable to many water conditions. As long as light is right, and you have an iron rich substrate... Maybe you can provide a little more information about your water qualities and a picture? The amounts of nutrients you will need depend on so many factors you know.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi pasion,

I see this is your first post on APC! Welcome to a great aquatic plant / planted aquarium forum. There is a lot of great information here and friendly people to help if you need it.

Instead of mixing your own trace element mix, why not go with either CSM+B or Seachem Flourish Comprehensive? I used to use Flourish Comprehensive and have gone to CSM+B as my tanks have increased and the lower cost. Check out Greenleaf Aquarium or AquariumFertilizer.com Glad you joined us!


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## Bunnie1978 (Sep 29, 2009)

Pasion,
I also use Flourish Comprehensive... usually only adding to water when I add it to the tank, and then weekly I add Leaf Zone, which is JUST iron and potassium. I also have an iron rich substrate, and without CO2 I have good growth and lush plants. I'm filling up my third tank with cuttings from my first one now. I've just added CO2 also, so I don't know how that will affect me yet, we'll see. If you have CO2, you perhaps will need more nutrients than I. I agree with Seattle Aquarist... the only purpose in mixing your own is if you have particular needs, which you shouldn't with that size aquarium. It is good to have the elements on hand in case you experience a deficiency that you recognize... Here is a link to a great chart for that: http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm

Alot of other great articles on that site too.

Also, a book that helped me understand how each nutrient works together and what it does, and good ways for plants to get it is Encyclopedia of Aquarium Plants. I checked it out from my library. Good book. Helped me tons! Good luck!


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## ashappard (Jun 3, 2006)

pasion you are on the right track, it would be interesting to hear what got you on the path of making your own trace mix! I'm not always happy with the performance of a specific commercial mix and a few of us do use multiple ones in certain ratio now, maybe add Fe manually on top of that. Most of the time this is to make growing certain spp. easier, or to get a specific appearance from some of them.

unfortunately I havent tried to make my own mix yet and I can comment on the suitability of the choices you've made in the ingredients. I do recognize a few of them from some other threads here.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

If you already have these things, then use them. 
Have a look at the fertilator here at APC for a better idea about how to dose. 

My gut feeling isERHAPS 
50% or more iron, 
25% EDTA
20% or less Manganese
5% all the others, except no copper if you have shrimp or snails. 

Dose in VERY small amounts. (like 1/8 of a teaspoon per 100 gallons once a week)

Boron is also toxic to plants in small amounts (like 4 parts per billion). You need just 1-2 parts per billion. (This is for land plants, I am not sure about aquatic)

Zinc can also be toxic if over dosed. 

I use CSM+B and chelated iron in very small amounts. 1 teaspoon of each divided among 700 gallons of tanks spread out over a week. This is where I get the "1/8 teaspoon per 100 gallons once a week" dosing rate. 
I test for iron, and most of the time it does not read. Either the test does not work for chelated iron, or the plants grab it pretty fast. 
I also have Seachem liquid Iron and Seachem Trace, and dose these once in a while. (Usually when I am too busy to make another stock solution of CSM+B)


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## pasion (Aug 20, 2009)

Well yeah thats pretty much the same with all life isn't it "it finds a way" as they say  but the problem is I've got a plane substrate thats cause I didn't had a clue about it when at first I got my tank, there is quite a bit trial and error involved in what I now know about keeping an aquarium and it got very little to do with LFSs over here cause most of the stuff that you guys perhaps take for granted like iron rich substrate, CSM, CSM+B, laterite and all that fancy stuff you can just pick right off the shelf is simply unheard of here even in the LFSs. I guess it will take a bit more time before we'll be able to get it too since this hobby is in its infancy over here. I will try and get some pics uploaded but I mostly got fast growing plants the type that anyone can have even with minimum of effort (thats what i gathered so far) eg. Anubias barteri, Bacopa australis, Echinodorus, Java Moss quite a bit but even them are not doing well they seemed to have paused with absolutely no new growth at all..



Bunnie1978 said:


> You might be going at this a bit more complicated than you need to be. Aquatic plants are generally very adaptable to many water conditions. As long as light is right, and you have an iron rich substrate... Maybe you can provide a little more information about your water qualities and a picture? The amounts of nutrients you will need depend on so many factors you know.


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## pasion (Aug 20, 2009)

Thanks Diana, thats what I was looking for I've got some idea about the dosing from the stuff at thekrib and its pretty much inline with what you suggested as well so I guess I will start mixing them up and see how it goes.., about that CSM and CSM+B well I love to get hold of that stuff over here but to my bitter disappointment none of the LFS seem to have this stuff over here I will try and get hold of some from the Internet lets see but for now since I've gone through so much just to get the individual elements I guess I should try my own mix for now.. Wish me luck...



Diana K said:


> If you already have these things, then use them.
> Have a look at the fertilator here at APC for a better idea about how to dose.
> 
> My gut feeling isERHAPS
> ...


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## Bunnie1978 (Sep 29, 2009)

Pasion - 
Good luck. Hopefully the ferts will fix it for you. If it doesn't, we can brainstorm for some other suggestions.


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## bozzo (Aug 12, 2010)

My English not so good but I hope you can understand me and help me. This tank is built by me: http://bozzo.shutterfly.com/. I read that you like experiments like me. Looking for a method of preparation of micro solutions: FeSO4, MnSO4, ZnCl2, Na2MoO4, H3BO3. I need a prescription substance in terms of grams per liter of water and this solution was one in an aquarium dozez ml / day / week something. Thanks.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

See my comments above. 
Have a look at the Fertilator at this site. 
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilator.php
Really helpful for the macros and some micros.

FeSO4- Iron is a very important micro nutrient. 
MnSO4- Manganese is another one that plants use in a pretty good amount. 
ZnCl2- Zinc is needed in very small amounts, and can be toxic if you use too much. Some soils and water already have plenty of Zinc. (Especially well water)
Na2MoO4- Molybdenum (Yea! I can spell it!) is needed in pretty small amounts. 
H3BO3- Boron is needed in very small amounts and can be toxic in larger amounts. Even 'Larger' amounts are a very small dose.

Here are the amounts that are in CSM+B. These are mostly in the chelated form, so they will stay available to the plants through the soil longer than the chemical forms you list. 
Fe 7.0%
Mn 2.0%
Mo 0.06%
Zn 0.4%
"With Boron Added" but no amount given. 
Things you do not list:
Mg 1.5% (This is a required mineral, but most water already has some. If the GH is over 3 ppm it probably does. If you are using RO or distilled water CSM+B is not enough to add the Mg the plants and fish need. Ignore this one. 
Cu 0.1% Required, but toxic in small amounts to shrimp and snails.

As I suggested in the post above:
PERHAPS
75% of your mix would be Fe
20% Mn
4% Zn
.5% Mo
.5% B
You will have to do the math to see how many milligrams of each of the products you have will make up that sort of ratio.

I add 1 teaspoon of CSM+B to 700 (American)gallons spread out over a week, dosing every other day. 
Translated into metric:
I put 5 ml (dry) into 2 liters of water and mix well. Then I dose each tank according to size, 1 ml of the diluted mix per 3.78 liters (1 gallon) of tank volume. I dose that much on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. Note that this is a very low dose. If I ran a high tech tank I would very easily double it, perhaps triple the dose.

Plants are rather adaptable. If the ratios are not perfect they will probably be fine. It is a good idea to also check your soil, tap water, and tank water for all the tests you can. It may be that some of the required minerals are already present in sufficient amounts that you do not need to dose that mineral.


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## cacs (Dec 2, 2014)

Hi Diana. I intend to make my own trace element mix here in the Philippines since Plantex CSM is hard to come by. Clarification please: to achieve the 7% of Fe, for example, are you saying that this translates to roughly 70-75% in terms of weight of the element? Is that what 7% Fe means? Adding the Plantex percentages will total just a little over 9%. I wonder what the remaining 91% would consist of.


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## JeffyFunk (Apr 6, 2006)

cacs said:


> Hi Diana. I intend to make my own trace element mix here in the Philippines since Plantex CSM is hard to come by. Clarification please: to achieve the 7% of Fe, for example, are you saying that this translates to roughly 70-75% in terms of weight of the element? Is that what 7% Fe means? Adding the Plantex percentages will total just a little over 9%. I wonder what the remaining 91% would consist of.


Diana is referring to the ratio of the metals in the trace mix. Comparing metals in grams, she's suggesting that 70-75% of the metals be for Fe. The issue in general with trace mixes is that you have to take into consideration the chelator. For example, you cannot add FeSO4 directly to your tank - you'll get algae. Instead, you have to add Fe(EDTA) - the molecular weight of the EDTA chelator has to be taken into consideration in your calculations when calculating the mass ratios of the metals added. That's usually what the remaining weight percentage is when you look at the composition of the fertilizer - the chelators.


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## cacs (Dec 2, 2014)

Thanks for the info Jeffy but for a simple hobbyist like me who understands very little chemistry, I cannot fully comprehend how to implement what you suggest as far as EDTA is concerned. I know how to measure the ratios but I would really appreciate just getting instructions on exactly what kind of elements to combine to produce the trace element mix, like should I use chelated iron instead of ferrous sulphate? What about manganese sulphate, zinc sulphate and magnesium sulphate? Do they have chelated forms as well? ( I have snails and shrimp in my tank so I won't use copper. I won't use molybdenum and boron anymore). I plan to mix all the dry ingredients together and dissolve them in water and follow EI dosing.


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