# Substrate and other questions



## potatoes (Jun 25, 2010)

Hi,
I am setting up a 5gal el natural aquarium as a test run before i change my 29 gallon to an el natural. It dose not have to be strictly el natural, my main goals are to minimize water changes, minimize algae, not need additional fertilizer after initial set up, not need co2, and maximize plant and fish health.

I have a 5gal marine land corner aquarium. I think it has a 15watt bulb i may replace (i got it on craigslist today)

The inhabitants will be a male betta and some nerite snails. perhaps a few corys or ottos or shrimp of you guys think they could work.

Ok, thats my current info, now for the questions...

I do not have a clear idea of what type of soil to use. Research has shown that fertilizers are bad. Can i take soil from my garden where we have used no ferts or pesticides in the past year?

is there a commonly available brand that is loved by all? Mirical grow organic potting soil turned up a lot here. Is garden soil the same?

Do i need to mineralize the soil? i do not want algae or plumes of bacteria and gas. I was planning on putting it in a bucket with water, removing the water after 2 days, repeate, then let it air out. perhaps repeate the process one or two more times.

What else should go in the soil? if it will somehow give nutrients, i want it to last and not need replacement or supplements. (clay, oyster shell, ....?)


What plants do you recommend in this set up? i am planning on anubias, java fern, java moss, wisteria, hornwort and crypts. anything that should not go in? anything that SHOULD go in? any tips?

tankmates... this is for my dads betta who is currently in an unfiltered bowl. i want to remove him asap and give him his new palace.....but will he share it? for those of you with bettas, will corys, ottos, or shrimp live?

i have a filter with a biowheel. I want to take away the wheel and put in a basic sponge. the primary pourpus will be water circulation.

do i need a bubbeler or airator?

Thanks so much, sorry for all the questions


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Hi potatoes, welcome!
5 gal el natural aquarium is OK, but don't overstock it. It may be difficult to get the conditions to stabilize in a small tank. 
29 gallon is a better one to start with. Conditions will be quite stable in there because the larger volume of water acts like a buffer. 
Minimize water changes: If the plants and the fish are in balance, then the plants will utilize the fish waste pretty well. 
Minimize algae- I think we all want this! The problem is that many algae species like the same sort of conditions that plants like. 
Minimize additional fertilizer- Get a good substrate set up, and then the fish food may be all the fertilizer the tank needs. 
Not need co2- Low light is best for this. 
Maximize plant and fish health- A complex issue, but you are starting right by asking lots of questions!

15watt bulb- Is OK for a 5 gallon tank, if it is the right wavelength. Does the bulb have any writing on it? Is it fluorescent? Tell us all you can about the bulb, please. 

Male Betta- Some Bettas are pretty aggressive and predatory toward almost anything in the tank. Others are very good community fish. Good to avoid other fish that are too colorful, or that swim in the upper area of the tank. 
Nerite Snails- Probably OK. 
Corys- Probably OK, but you cannot fit very many. They are social. Get 3-4 of the dwarf species. There are several species that grow to about 3/4"-1" (2-2.5 cm) 
Ottos- Good for algae clean up. I would get 2 of these before Cories. 
Shrimp- Hard to say what will happen. Some Bettas will eat shrimp even without cocktail sauce 

Soil from my garden where we have used no ferts or pesticides in the past year is a good beginning. 
Put some in a jar with some water and shake it well. If all the soil particles fall to the bottom of the jar within 2 minutes it is a good choice. If there is a lot of organic stuff floating this is not great, but can be removed. If the water stays cloudy for several hours then it is not such a good choice.
If the water is pretty much clear or just barely foggy then let it sit overnight and test the water with all the aquarium tests you have. Test your tap water for all the same tests. Post the results. 
You can mineralize the soil if you want. Then, set up the tank and monitor all the parameters to see when it stabilizes. If the initial set up shows high in ammonia it may take a month or so to stabilize. A lot of microorganisms are growing in the soil and water. There is no way to hurry them, they only breed just so fast. 
Is there a commonly available brand of commercial soil that is loved by all? Nope. Every person has their own opinion, and every soil has its fans. 
Miracle Grow Organic potting soil turned up a lot here. It seems to work well in an El Natural tank. 
Is garden soil the same? No. Garden soil will be different in every garden. 

Do i need to mineralize the soil? It is a good way to start. 
I was planning on putting it in a bucket with water, removing the water after 2 days, spread out the soil to air dry. Do not just leave it in the bucket. Follow the directions of the people who have worked out how to do this. 

What else should go in the soil? Depends on what the tests are from that jar of soil and water. 
Soil that will hold nutrients is very good. If it has little or no nutrients to start with you can add some. If the soil does other things to the water, such as making the water harder you do not need to add oyster shell or coral sand. 
A good way to add fertilizers but minimize algae is to add fertilizer in the form of slow release tablets, deep in the substrate. 

What plants do you recommend in this set up? For a 5 gallon tank, SMALL PLANTS. 

Anubias- There is a dwarf/nana
Java Fern- Wendelov stays small enough for your tank
Java Moss- Look into some of the fancier, more compact types of moss. 
Wisteria- A great nitrogen sink while the tank is stabilizing, but gets WAY too big to keep in a 5 gallon long term. Plan on moving it to the 29 pretty soon. 
Hornwort- I have had best luck in a hard water tank. This one also can get out of hand. 
Crypts- Many species. Look into the smallest of them for the 5 gallon

i have a filter with a biowheel. I want to take away the wheel and put in a basic sponge. Keep the biowheel. If it is currently running on a cycled tank it will help to get the bacteria colony going. 

do i need a bubbeler or aerator? I do not use them in my tanks. If you find the tank gets too warm in the summer you might need to move just a little more water and an aerator can help. 

Thanks so much, sorry for all the questions- Do not be sorry for all the questions! Ask more!


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## potatoes (Jun 25, 2010)

Wow thanks for all the help! 

My bulb is a 120v 15watt filament bulb. there is no writing on it. I can replace it with a florescent bulb (one of those spirally energy saving ones) if need be. what type of lighting should i be aming at in order to have what i am looking for? (minimal algae, no co2 injections)


Is it true that in the el natural tank, decomposing food and waist will give nutrients AND co2?

Ok i will only have the betta, snails, and two ottos then. I dont want to overstock it and need water changes.

what type of lighting should i be aiming at in order to have what i am looking for? (minimal algae, no co2)

I got a potted bronze crypt wendtii but i can not find out how big it grows. If it is too big, it can remain in my 29.

What you say about the bigger tank makes sense. Unfortunately, i have an empty 5gal and a full 29gal, and i dont want to be experimenting with my tank that is already doing well. I will only make the jump to the 29 if the 5 goes well. I bought the 5gal yesterday on craigslist, so it is empty and uncylced and the biowheel is currently uncolonized with bacteria. I want to put a layer of gravel over the dirt, so i can use gravel from my 29 to help seed it i guess.

Is it true that having a biowheel or filter without more than a sponge will create a biological filtration that will compete with the plants, and should be mostly avoided?

I saw lots of soil, but i bought the Mirclegro Organic choice potting soil so it will be easiest for people to know exactly what is in my soil. IT has peat moss in it. is this bad? if so, will it be removed my the mineralization process?

I dont want to tear open the bag and do that yet until i know, because it was expensive and i dont think the will let me return a bucket of mud! lol

Thanks for all the advice you have given me so far, it has been very helpful and i appreciate it.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

My bulb is a 120v 15watt filament bulb. Yes, get the spiral fluorescent. I use 'Daylight' or 'Cool white' on many tanks, but I also combine bulbs, so there is a better range of wavelengths. 


Is it true that in the el natural tank, decomposing food and waist will give nutrients AND co2? Yes, it can. This is the way it works in nature, too. 

Ok i will only have the betta, snails, and two ottos then. I dont want to overstock it and need water changes. Sounds good!

what type of lighting should i be aiming at in order to have what i am looking for? (minimal algae, no co2) Somewhere around 2-3 watts per gallon is low light for a small tank like this. 

I got a potted bronze crypt wendtii but i can not find out how big it grows. If it is too big, it can remain in my 29. I have seen these get really big under high tech conditions, but it should work in your 5 El Natural. 

5gal is empty and uncylced and the biowheel is currently uncolonized with bacteria. I want to put a layer of gravel over the dirt, so i can use gravel from my 29 to help seed it i guess. Yes, the gravel from the 29 will indeed bring in a good assortment of beneficial organisms. 

Is it true that having a biowheel or filter without more than a sponge will create a biological filtration that will compete with the plants, and should be mostly avoided? If there is not a biowheel, the bacteria will simply grow on some other surface. No way to get around it. I have several biowheel filters and have just left the biowheel in place. It is the cartridge style filter media that I do not like. I can stack a lot more sponge and floss in there, and have better filtration than the cartridges offer. 

Getting a bagged soil with a well written label will indeed let you know what you are getting. A small amount of organic matter such as peat moss or worm castings is not a problem. You are really looking for a sand and silt sort of material. Some potting soils are ground bark and sawdust, with little or no sand. These are the worst for our purposes. 
You can test your own garden soil to see what it has, too.


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## potatoes (Jun 25, 2010)

Fantastic, thank you. Since so many have used the miraclegro potting soil, i guess i will too. and i assume that the mineralization process will help remove the excess organic material and help a lot. I will start the process now. You mentioned that i should test the water samples and post it. should i do this after the mineralization process or test the water after the first soak in the bucket?

thanks again


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## potatoes (Jun 25, 2010)

Oh no!! i bought Miraclegro organic choice potting MIX. is that the same thing as miraclegro organic choice potting SOIL? there is lots of bark shreds in it which i can filter out with a sive, and i am left with a powdery dirt, but i dont know if it is correct! do you know if there is a difference? i cant find any MGOCPS online for sale anywhere, but it is always mentioned. perhaps they are the same thing and the online community is just saying "soil" insted or correctly saying "mix"? or do i have the wrong dirt?


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

I just check my bag. It does say MIX as well.


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## potatoes (Jun 25, 2010)

Oh great, thanks. Did you add anything to it or mineralize yours?


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

I added a sprinkling crushed coral that I happened to have. I just dumped the dirt in the tank. I removed big stick but didn't mineralize or anything like that. I didn't even rinse realy. I did get allot of tannins that turned the water yellow/brown but I just left it until the plants started coming in. I did water changes eventualy and it cleared up. Water changes right away will just turn brown again but waiting for all the tannins to get out then changing clears it up well.


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## potatoes (Jun 25, 2010)

oh ok thanks. So far i have taken the Miricale grow organic choice potting mix and removed all large clumps of peatmoss and bark/sticks with a pasta sive. i then put it in a 5 gallon bucket and filled it to the top with water, which i let sit for two days. i then dumped out the water and let it dry out on a tarp. i did this to try to leech out any contaminants and organic material. I then put it back in the bucket and i added enough water to make mud. i covered the bucket and put it in a corner. i read somewhere that this will help the bacteria break down the organic material and save me troubles later on.

it has been in the bucket for four days now, and it really smells. it it not stinkking up my room or anything, but after i stir it i can smell something awful. what is this smell? i am assuming it is decomposing organic matter. is this a good sign? how long should it take to finish?

thanks,
Mike


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Looks like you're getting tons of GREAT advice. Personally, I would mineralize the potting mix. Also, for what it's worth, I have a 3 gallon picotope set up El Natural and I do not have any filtration or water movement. Just to gove you an idea of what you might expect should you go this route, the water is clear, though has a slight green tint to it. Some folks who go this route, and even in other tanks of mine, have clear water with no filtration. 

My favorite plant in there that is great for smaller tanks is Cryptocoryne willisii x lucens (bronze). Others in there that are doing well are Staurogyne 'low grow', Staurogyne 'porto vehlo', Fissedens moss, and a few experiental plants.


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## potatoes (Jun 25, 2010)

thanks. i agree i have had wonderful advice. this is the best mineralization guide i have found. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...-mineralized-soil-substrate-aaron-talbot.html

from what i understand, during the mineralization process, microbes and bacteria break down the organic material in the soil while wet and exposed to oxygen, correct? so rather than spreading the moist soil out on a tarp, the soaking in a bucket, then re spreading out on a tarp, couldnt i either leave it on the tarp and keep ot wet with rutine soakings from a hose, or keep it in a bucket with water and add an extra bubbler to supply oxygen? or are both the soaking period and thin spread air exposure vital to the mieralization process.

and what is the smell from my most soil? i dont want to use it untill i know what it is or it is gone. I think i have more organic matierial since i used the potting soil, while the minerailization process wants cheap top soil. dose that mean i wil lhave difficulty mineralizing the soil?

thanks for all your help


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

As far as soaking the soil and then spreading it to air dry, I think there is somthing in the process of bacteria capsulating that perhaps helps form the colonies, or whatever; I honestly am not sure.

But regarding the smell, it depends. Mostly, with moist soil, you will smell life, the smell of certain bacteria doing their thing. If the smell is offensive it either means the soil is saturated and lacks oxygen (anaerobic - one result will be hydrogen sulfide gas) or there is some type of organic matter that is decaying (rotting flesh, or pehaps manure). Perhaps this is another reason for the wetting and drying cycles; they allow for the colonization of bacteria and also allow for excess organics to decompose before you put them under water in your tank.

I have used potting soil that resembled fine mulch with no problems, so I don't imagine the lack of top soil will be a problem for you. Just make sure you get it no deeper than 1 inch (maybe just use a layer of .75 inch) with a similar depth of your substrate cap (gravel, sand et cetera).


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