# (re)started 65G tank - second try :)



## jochemspek (Feb 17, 2019)

well, after I tanked my previous setup, probably because of too thick a layer of too fine sand, I've started again using the same plants but a thicker substrate (~1") and a shallow layer of coarser (~0.08") gravel (and black, rather than white). Otherwise it is the same setup of lighting (Juwel HiLiteT5), ~7 hrs/day and the same plants as in my previous thread - see https://www.aquaticplantcentral.com...w-65g-walstad-tank-pictures-2.html#post995729



Let's hope it works better this time !


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Looks good so far.


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## jochemspek (Feb 17, 2019)

Tanks! I have 5 blue velvet shrimps and 4 striped nerite snails in it, from the previous setup and they look happy, so I think they agree with you  I noticed these little white blobs on a leaf of Ludwigia, I think they are snail eggs, but I'm surprised that they appear 1 day after replanting the tank, or am I wrong and is it something else?


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

They look like snail eggs to me.


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## jochemspek (Feb 17, 2019)

I'm a bit worried about the temperature differential between the top of the tank (26C/78F) and the bottom (18C/64F) currently I don't have any circulation but I'll install a small underwater pump one of these days. It's impossible to install now without taking the tank down (again), but should I (have) install(ed) a heating system under the soil layer?

thanks,

J


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## jochemspek (Feb 17, 2019)

Michael said:


> They look like snail eggs to me.


Well, if they were, the eggs have disappeared in a day time, and honestly, I have *no* idea if there are new babysnails in the tank, I don't see any readily, so I guess I'll just wait and see..


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

The difference in temperature between the top and bottom is normal in tanks without circulation, and does no harm. Some circulation is beneficial because it distributes nutrients evenly throughout the tank. All you need is a simple submersible pump, no need to tear down the tank.

I don't use any heaters in any of my tanks. Heaters are a separate issue from circulation.


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## jochemspek (Feb 17, 2019)

Michael said:


> The difference in temperature between the top and bottom is normal in tanks without circulation, and does no harm. Some circulation is beneficial because it distributes nutrients evenly throughout the tank. All you need is a simple submersible pump, no need to tear down the tank.


Will do. Tanks, Michael!


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## jochemspek (Feb 17, 2019)

well, 3 weeks in, and things look much better than the first setup, the soil seems healthy (no smells) and the plants are growing and seem to root properly, the grass is spreading nicely.










I put in a UV filter following @dwalstad's advice and a bit of CO2 from a tank that is dispersed via the waterpump following hoppycalif's. There are 8 shrimps that seem quite happy and pretty:










so far so good it seems, any comments or advice are welcome!


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## jochemspek (Feb 17, 2019)

Well, 1 month in, and things seem to go well. Next to the 8 shrips, I have now 8 otocinclus since 1 week, and they seem ok. I read that they often perish suddenly in the first few weeks, so I have my finger crossed, but I trust my lfs, they are very careful what fish they trade. Since the CO2 injection the plants are shooting up. thanks for all the advice so far. Here are some pics:







The oto's are munching away at a nori leaf


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## jochemspek (Feb 17, 2019)

oh, I have a question though. I was wondering if it may be a good idea to put in some pieces of sponge in a spring, or small open cylindrical container and bury them half into the substrate, so that the soil gets some air and doesn't die like my first setup. I haven't read anything about such a thing so it may not be a good idea, but I'm curious to hear anyone's thoughts on it.

tanks,

J


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I would just _carefully_ poke the substrate every few days. Burying sponges and containers will make a mess and not work more than a day or two to add aeration. Moreover, it will disturb the root systems of plants trying to establish themselves.


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## jochemspek (Feb 17, 2019)

thanks, I'll keep doing that.


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## jochemspek (Feb 17, 2019)

just an update, the plants are growing like crazy and the oto's got company, 14 cardinal tetra's


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## jochemspek (Feb 17, 2019)

oh, I do have a question about stocking though. I currently have 8 otocinclus, 5 red cherry shrimps, 5 blue velvet shrimps and 14 cardinal tetra's. The tank is 210liters (~65gallons) and as you've seen in the pictures, there are plenty of fast growing plants. There is a UV filter running 10hrs/day, together with gentle CO2 injection and a waterpump, no additional filter. The tank seems healthy at the moment, water is constant for the past few weeks at 

10mg/l NO3-
0mg/l NO2-
9*d GH
5*d KH
6,8 PH
0 mg/l CL
temp 26*C/80F

What would a careful & healthy number of (additional) fish be? can I add, say 10 guppies? or is that overstretching it? Are there species that I can/should add that balance the tank/community better?

I'd love to add Melanoides tuberculata snails that can help aerate the substrate but they are not legally traded here in the Netherlands, are there alternatives?

Also, I'd love to add Corydoras habrosus but I'm unsure if the amount of algae/biofilm currently growing will support them alongside with the shrimps and the oto's without additional feeding.

I'd love to hear your advice.

thanks!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Beautiful tank. I wouldn't add any female guppies, as your tank will be overflowing with babies. And you'll NEVER catch the constant progeny in a tank like this. 10 male guppies would be okay.

There are so many fish choices, that it's really whatever suits you. Anything larger than a guppy is probably going to eat the shrimp. 

The fact that you've got the UV filter gives you less to worry about in introducing fish diseases, but I'd keep that in mind if you add new fish. I think you've got a nice animal/plant setup that I suspect is going to be relatively carefree. No drama!  It would be pretty cool if your Otocinclus spawned.


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## jochemspek (Feb 17, 2019)

thank you Diana! I think I'll go for 10 guppies and a couple of cordora's and then take my hands off it for awhile.

I'll keep updating with photo's


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## jochemspek (Feb 17, 2019)

I put in this beautiful piece of mangrove treeroot for the fishies to hide. The shrimps seem to love it most though


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## jochemspek (Feb 17, 2019)

trouble in paradise?

What I thought were eggs, turn out to be something else, and it's probably white funghus 

The images look a bit worse, because of a white reflection I couldnt get rid of)


















The funghus was starting to grow before I put in the treeroots btw.

Is this type of funghus dangerous and if so, what can I do besides the obvious water changes and plant removal?

J


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## David_L (Apr 13, 2019)

Pretty common, as I understand, from newly acquired wood. I have a similar growth in my 6 day old tank that has spiderwood in it. I've letting it go buckwild, personally, as I plan on dropping 6 Otocinclus in on Friday who will hopefully appreciate a snack. But seeing as you have some Otos already and they aren't chowing down on it already... I'm having doubts >.< 

All that said, what I read elsewhere was that this is not uncommon and that it'll resolve on it's own. Some folks even feel that allowing it to run it's course instead of killing it off allows the wood's soft "cavities" to be picked clean by the white algae, leaving only the wood that should last a long time to come. 

Of course, I've also heard not everything you read on the internet is true so...


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## mysiak (Jan 17, 2018)

You can't really kill that white stuff on a freshly submerged driftwood. Whatever you do, it comes back. Boiling the wood makes it just worse - boiling probably just releases more material for bacteria/fungus/whatever it is to feed on. It should be harmless to livestock and will eventually disappear on its own when the "food" is gone. Snails, shrimp and plecos love to munch on it, not sure about otos as I never had them.


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## jochemspek (Feb 17, 2019)

Hi David and Mysiak, thanks for the advice, but the large piece of wood came in *after* the white fluff appeared - the smaller piece came from another tank and has been in this tank from the beginning, now 8 weeks ago.. Yesterday I found 1 dead shrimp buried in the grass, I don't know if it's related, but I'm worried.


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## jochemspek (Feb 17, 2019)

Hi all

following some advice from other sources as well, it all sounds relatively reassuring. up until now, everybody that responded on the forums has a similar view in that it should be harmless to the fish, so I'm getting more confident that it is indeed so. Sorry to be a bit skeptical, but I read quite a few articles raising the alarm about this white growth, and suggesting a complete tear-down of the tank in order to get rid of it. That got me a bit scared as I'm quite happy with my current setup and definitely don't want to lose my fish. I also found this thread https://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/49345-more-white-fuzz-plants.html
that describes the problem and offers several possible solutions that are not as radical and still quite natural, so the bottom line is:

- prune the infected plants, replace by fresh, new plants if overgrown.
- more regular pwc (2x25%pw, instead of 1x50%pw)
- less lighting (I'm at 9hrs 2x 8000K 3700lum t5),
i'll bring that down to 8hrs 1x8000K 3700lum)
- less feeding, as this seems the most likely problem,
I had some issues with the autofeeder giving too large dose
- reduce the amount of CO2 injected

I'll do it in stages, hopefully catching which of the above has most influence on the white growth.

Tanks!!!

J


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## jochemspek (Feb 17, 2019)

well, a happy update, the white fluff is on the retreat, thanks to the actions listed in prev post!!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Good to hear that you solved the problem. Sometimes it's just a matter of a little tinkering to set things right.


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## jochemspek (Feb 17, 2019)

The fungus or algae are now almost completely gone, after abt a week of reduced lighting. I'm back to a 2x4 hrs regime now, but with half the lights. Tbh I wished I had gone through the list of adjustments (CO2 reduction etc) step by step so I knew what exactly the most dominant factor was, but I didn't want to risk the tank. I think the lights were the most dominant though, as I found them already really bright. I ordered LED lighting now, with a semi professional controller, so I can program the exact daylight sequences (with sunset! : ) Also, I've ordered diffraction gratings and a lux meter, so I can make a DIY PAR meter  So for now, all is good, thanks again for the encouragement and advice


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Where did you find the diffraction gratings? And, how expensive are they? It's off subject, but a subject *very* interesting for me.


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## jochemspek (Feb 17, 2019)

hi Hoppy, since a real PAR meter is out of the question and this seems like a fun DIY project, I've looked into DIY spectrometers and found the following inspiring links:

https://hackaday.io/project/11264-universal-software-for-diy-spectrometers
https://www.autoflower.net/forums/threads/cheapest-par-meter-diy.40206/
https://publiclab.org/notes/warren/...craft-spectrometer-for-your-phone-version-2-0

Useful diffraction gratings come at $11.26 per 25 (!) from amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Rainbow-Symp...ction+Grating&qid=1557267473&s=gateway&sr=8-3

So it seems reasonable to make a setup with some sort of projection screen and a diffraction grating inside a pinhole box that can be designed and 3d printed to hold both the slide, projection screen and iphone/camera.

Then write an app (or use software mentioned above) to analyse the spectra and calibrate it using known common lightsources like sunlight, sodium, etc. If the calibration proves too diffuicult, I could calibrate it against a PAR meter from the local vertical farm people. This should be accurate enough to build a useful PAR meter, would you agree?

J


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