# algea id?



## ja__ (Oct 14, 2005)

this algea grows slowly on plants and roots,its round and gelee in substance with treads on the top reminds me of red algea it also reminds me of bga but its growth pattern is a whole lot different...
Ive also got tread algea in the same tank

tank specs:

south east asia planted biotop
180liters
4*30w
co2 is injected
tropica fertiliser is injekted every week
water change 20% every week
....

in the bottom substrate ive got garden soil,sand,initial sticks,laterite and soo on)

heres a little pic...
copyright: per ulv


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## Simpte 27 (Jul 16, 2004)

Could be bba but it could also be hair algae. Hard to tell from the pic.


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## PerUlv (Jan 5, 2006)

Hi, I am the owner of the affected tank, Ja kindly translated the text that I posted in a Norwegian forum with my permission. Thanks! 

This is my first post on this forum, that Ja_ made me aware of.

You write "bba" is that a typo for BGA (cyanobacteria)?

This algae does not have the smell I associate with BGA. In addition there are fine threads coming out of the surface of the jelly ball.

It also grows on a root, again as balls about 4mm big. It does not seem to grow in the substrate.


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## PerUlv (Jan 5, 2006)

Just done some reading at your algae finder. Nice tool!

You may be right about the BBA Batrachospermum. Slippery mucious sack and toad eggs sort of describes it quite well. Unfortunately it seems to have gotten quite a good hold in the tank, so if this is correct, I will have to take the tank down, and replace the plants and substrate. Bleaching my little lawn seems like an impossible task.


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## Faruk Gençöz (Nov 4, 2005)

It doesn't seem to be red algea. Can you destroy or remove it easily?

It seems like fungus rather than algea. May be two or more forms living together. Can you put it under a microscope and look if there are different forms?


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## PerUlv (Jan 5, 2006)

It sticks fairly well to the leaves. Removing/destroying it takes a little force and small leaves havebeen broken off in the attempt as faras I remember. I do not have a microscope, but will try to take a sharp macro photo tomorrow after work.


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## Faruk Gençöz (Nov 4, 2005)

ja__ said:


> this algea grows slowly on plants and *roots*


Does that mean it can live under the substrate, without light?
Is there a development pattern that at the beginning it becomes whitish/semitransparent and then it gets green?

Looking forward to seeing the macro photo.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

I have seen in books on algae pictures of some species that produce a jelly-like ball with the cells of the alga inside. it seems to be a way of protecting the cells from things that would eat them. This is the first time I have heard of these kinds of algae getting into an aquarium.


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## PerUlv (Jan 5, 2006)

fgencoz said:


> Does that mean it can live under the substrate, without light?.


No, it is an translation error. It should be driftwood. Sorry about that.



fgencoz said:


> Is there a development pattern that at the beginning it becomes whitish/semitransparent and then it gets green?
> 
> Looking forward to seeing the macro photo.


No, but the parts on the driftwood tend to be harder than the ones on leaves.

Will provide the macro photo after work in 12 hours.


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## PerUlv (Jan 5, 2006)

Please see the cross section pictured below. The picture shows the edge of a Cryptoceryne leaf cut with a knife straight through one of the jelly balls. The section shown is a total of about 4mm long (!) so it probably counts as macro, yes. It is handheld and little DOF due to the large aperture. 
The interesting structure inside the jelly ball leads me to think about freshwater fungae (of which I know next to nothing). Please feel free to write about your theories and experience. 

And, sorry about the hair that fell into the picture. That is mine and not part of the problem.

Wish I had a microscope...


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## PerUlv (Jan 5, 2006)

In danger of violating spamming rules I am posting another picture to clarify.

This is a thin section. Note the dendritic pattern. It is like a tree inside!


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## Faruk Gençöz (Nov 4, 2005)

Good pictures. The dendritic pattern looks like a freshwater fungus. On the other hand the balls are green. My guess is that these are fungus.


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## PerUlv (Jan 5, 2006)

HeyPK said:


> I have seen in books on algae pictures of some species that produce a jelly-like ball with the cells of the alga inside. it seems to be a way of protecting the cells from things that would eat them. This is the first time I have heard of these kinds of algae getting into an aquarium.


Does it still look like this? There are thin "branches" coming out of the ball, They are soft and look like red algae in the water.

I am still uncertain. Do you have a link to any such algae?


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## Faruk Gençöz (Nov 4, 2005)

Below is a search result from Google. SOmetime in the past in Aqua-PetsUK people seemed to talk about this thing. I registered myself to this forum but could not reach the posts.

Aqua-PetsUK -> my rocks my clown
*...* the pic is not clear, perhaps its *algea*? :blink: may I suggest you PM lophius with
a link to this thread. *...* green *jelly* looking stuff in little *ball* shapes. *...* 
www.aqua-petsuk.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3524 - 94k -

Aqua-PetsUK -> my rocks my clown
*...* grass that wasnt there when i bought them from the shop and green *jelly* looking
stuff in little *ball* shapes my *...* the pic is not clear, perhaps its *algea*? *...* 
www.aqua-petsuk.com/forum/index. php?showtopic=3524&view=getlastpost - 101k -


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## PerUlv (Jan 5, 2006)

Thanks, I could not open them myself either. Would have been interesting though.

Any ideas about how to combat them, or should I empty the tank?


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## neonfish3 (Feb 12, 2004)

I wasn't sure if you were just trying to ID and/or trying to get rid of it. 
I was hoping you weren't trying to kill it! I think it looks very cool and has some great aquascaping potential. I can see a grouping of hair grass covered in pretty green pearls.
It is unique and unusual. You should try to use it as a design element.
If you don't want to, you could send some to me . I'll gladly pay shipping plus a little extra for that algae.( Didn't think I would ever say that!)

I have seen simular algae blobs in freshwater habitats around here, but the condition of the water I would see them is is very poor. Stagnant, stinky, brown, yellow, green nasty water you wouldn't even want to walk in. Let alone take some home and put in your tank!
Anyway....
How big do the balls get?


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## Faruk Gençöz (Nov 4, 2005)

Combating can be used to identify this thing. Algae need light whereas fungi do not. If they were algae then they would die in the dark. I would look where these things happen mostly in the aquarium. If they were also found in a very shaded area then fungus idea would be considerable. But the light may not be so distinctive for this thing to identify because the thing may include more than one life form or it may be neither alga nor fungus. It can also be a type of cyanobacteria.

Diluted H2O2 would be helpful no matter what it is. 

Sending it from Europe to US can be dangerous for ecology (I assume PerUlv is in Norway).


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## PerUlv (Jan 5, 2006)

Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it.

Now, There are several reasons for my wish to get rid of these somewhat decorative balls. (in the beginning I thought as you - cool and strange, lets see what happens, but...)

1) They kill off the growth of the plants. The prettiness is thus shortlived.
2) Thinking fungae; I am uncertain as to wether the spores will be distributed in the air, and possibly affect my kids lungs. (it is an open tank).
3) So far they do not seem to affect the fish, but they seem to be taking over the tank, so they might affect the fish eventually.

The balls seem to max out at about 5mm, i.e. they are small. They do not seem to grow together and form larger balls, but stay single units even when growing very close together.

I agree with fgencoz - we do not have an ID. It may be BGA, it may be fungae, it may be an algae. A combination of the last two also seem plausible. Unfortunately there is no University in this town, the closest one is hours away by car. Therefore I cannot go there and ask.
Due to the possible coexistence of two life forms, normal elimination methods (darkness for some days) are less suitable.

I may still try the darkness approach, just to satisfy my curiosity, though the result may not give any answer...

Oh yeah, sorry, I am not shipping unknown jelly balls to anybody but possibly a research institute, due to possible ecological impact. I live way up in arctic Norway, so they would freeze and die quickly anyway. 

Currently we are awaiting the month long polar night to end and this years first sun to arrive in a couple of weeks Oh Joy!


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## Faruk Gençöz (Nov 4, 2005)

By the way, PerUlv, welcome to APC! It was a very interesting start. 

We couldn't find exactly what it is at the moment but there are now accessible photos of it in the forum. They are probably the first photos of this thing among aquarium forums. I would suggest to take more photos of them.

If I find a chance I'll show this thing to my colleagues in the Biology Department in the next week.


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## neonfish3 (Feb 12, 2004)

I think I found your answer.
http://www.bio-web.dk/op/ophrydium.html


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## PerUlv (Jan 5, 2006)

Thank you! 
It would be very interesting to hear the comments from Biology Dept., if possible. 
I can supply full size jpg photos for anyone interested. The files are big, about 4-5MB for full sized JPG 8 megapixel. I have many shots, but the ones you have seen are the best. The shots are downsized and compressed, but details are fairly well preserved. Will take a "few" more should there come any questions in the future.
PM me if any of you want a copy.


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## Faruk Gençöz (Nov 4, 2005)

Neonfish3, great job!

What is ciliate? Protozoan?

Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: *cil·i·ate*
Pronunciation: 'si-lE-&t, -lE-"At
Function: _noun_
*:* any of a phylum or subphylum (Ciliophora) of ciliated protozoans (as paramecia)


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## PerUlv (Jan 5, 2006)

neonfish3 said:


> I think I found your answer.
> http://www.bio-web.dk/op/ophrydium.html


Wow, Excellent, Thanks a lot!

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/protista/ciliata/ciliatalh.html

They seem to be associated with pollution. I may have to check my watersupply... (public)


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