# Dosing Flourish



## Fishguy10

Hello, I've started my first planted tank about 2 weeks ago, 29 gallons 3.2wpg of T5 with high light plants. I do not have any fish yet and I also don't have any CO2, and right now I'm not dosing anything. I recently got some flourish, excel, and flourish iron, and I was wondering about dosing.

1) How often should I dose the recommended dose of flourish? I was thinking 2-3 times a week, maybe Monday, Wednesday, Friday, or just Monday and Friday if I only dose it twice a week. 
2) Excel, I've got a few questions on this. First, I should probably dose it every day right? Second, should I dose the recommended dosing? Third, what plants does this melt? I have some Downoi (pogostemon helferi), and I've heard that excel melts this plant. I also have HC and I'm afraid it might melt that too. Has anyone used excel successfully with downoi and HC? I do not have any valls, anarchis, or moss, and I've heard that it melts those plants. I really need to get some carbon in my tank, but I don't want to melt all of my plants.
3)How often should I dose Iron, I was thinking maybe twice a week? Maybe on Tuesday and Thursday in between flourish dosings? I would just dose the recommended dosing. 
Thanks in advance for help and advice. 

By the way, I've been wondering. This may be the wrong place for this question, but here it goes. How much, if any, CO2 do fish contribute to your tank? I would think that they would have to contribute some, but I have no idea how to determine how much or if it is at high enough levels for healthy plant growth. Has anyone used just fish to raise CO2 levels, and if so how high did CO2 levels get? I would imagine that in order to get high levels from fish, you would probably have to have a lot of fish, but I don't know. I hope that someone can help answer my questions.


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## Left C

I have a 29g plant grow out tank with a 2x65w PC and pressurized CO2. This is the dosing plan that I follow. It is really EI.

1/4 tsp KNO3 3x weekly (Sun, Tu, Th)
1/16 tsp KH2PO4 3x weekly (Sun, Tu, Th)
1/2 tsp GH Booster (Seachem's Equilibrium) 1x after weekly water change (Sun)
5mL Flourish 3x weekly (M,W,F)
5mL F. Iron 3x weekly (M,W,F)
50% water change weekly (Sun)


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With your 3.2 wpg, you will need to dose Excel daily. You will also need to get a source of NO3 and PO4. You can use the dry ferts like I use or you can get F. Nitrogen or F. Phosphorus. You may need to dose K or F. Potassium too. If your water is soft, would may need to add either a GH Booster or Seachem's Equilibrium. If you want, you can also dose F. Iron daily.


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## Fishguy10

Thank you for the feedback. It's good to see how often you dose your flourish, at full 50g dose. Your dosing plan looks like you dose plenty of nutrients, how often and what percentage of water do you change? I will most likely dose PPS or maybe EI later on, but for now I've only got flourish, excel, and iron. Do you know if the excel will melt/burn my downoi or my HC? Thanks in advance.


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## Left C

Fishguy10 said:


> ... Your dosing plan looks like you dose plenty of nutrients, how often and what percentage of water do you change?


 50% water change weekly (Sun)



Fishguy10 said:


> I will most likely dose PPS or maybe EI later on, but for now I've only got flourish, excel, and iron. Do you know if the excel will melt/burn my downoi or my HC? Thanks in advance.


If you follow Seachem's dosing guidelines on the Excel bottle, it should not hurt your plants. It is when we get above these levels that we sometimes run into problems.

As I mentioned earlier, because of your lighting, you need to dose, NO3, PO4 and K too.


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## londonloco

Flourish is a micro product, it does NOT take the place of NPK dosing. I don't dose micro's at all, I have well water with enough micro's for my plants. You really should buy some dry ferts and start dosing NPK also.


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## Fishguy10

Thanks for the feedback, I will work on getting some macros for my tank. I think that I will start dosing my flourish products tomorrow. That's good to know that my plants shouldn't melt, I hope that the excel doesn't hurt them.


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## Left C

If I was going to get dry ferts for the first time, I would get a kit that has NPK, CSM+B and a good chelated Fe product. This one here is said to be good.

Do you know your GH? If it is low, you can dose Seachem's Equilibrium or a GH Booster. If it is moderate, you may have enough Ca, but you may need to dose some Mg. Epsom Salt (MgSO4·7H2O) is a good source of Mg. If you need to dose Ca, you can use either calcium chloride or calcium sulfate.


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## Fishguy10

I was planning on getting NPK ferts and some CSM+B. Not sure about the iron, I was sort of just thinking using the iron from the CSM+B and maybe occasional extra dosing of flourish iron. Thank you for the recommendation though.

That's actually funny that you mention GH, because I just tested it for the first time on my new tank. I think that something must be really really wrong with my test kit though. I have one where you continually add drops until it turns from orange to green and each drop is approx. one degree. It took me 25 drops to get the solution to turn green. 25dGh? Is that even possible? Would my water even be considered a liquid anymore? It was something like 450ppm. Anyways, I don't think that I can put much faith in that GH test kit. The KH seemed accurate though, at about 1-2dKH. I'm not real familiar with GH readings, but this definitely seemed inaccurate to me. What do you think?


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## OTPT

Is that API's GH test kit? 
The change in color is VERY subtle. 
I had also gone as far as 25+ drops although the reality was just 3 dGH for my water.

Try putting about 2-3 drops of the reagent into the tube and remember the color.
You will see the green looks not so green, this resembles the finishing point.
(For soft water the resulting color won't be as intense as pure reagent, 
but the color of pure reagent gives you an idea)

Or even better, put it in another test tube, if you have another one, as a reference.

When I do the test. I look into the tube and ask myself whether this color could 
be of my urine. If the answer is yes, put in another drop. At last it will reach a point 
where it looks orange with a LITTLE green tint which could not resemble urine anymore, 
that's it, done.

The picture in post #10 of this thread is very useful. It taught me how to use this tricky test kit.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/f...s/16538-what-color-general-hardness-test.html


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## Left C

I'd throw that API GH kit in the trash. It is just too subtle. Their KH test kit is fine, though. It measures in dKH.

Hagen makes a decent GH/KH test kit for the money. It uses different reagents and it measures in ppm. It is really easy to see the color change.


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## Fishguy10

Yes, the test kit is an API. It started out almost clear, then slowly got more and more yellow, then orange, then a really dark solid orange. After 24 drops it was this solid orange color still. On the 25th drop, it instantly turned a solid, easy to see, green. However, I seriously doubt that this reading is accurate. I was expecting a much much lower reading. I guess I won't use the GH kit at all, or at least not worry about it if numbers come up wrong. 

The main reason why I was even testing GH at all was because it came with the KH so I figured, why not? I wanted to test my KH mostly out of curiosity to see if the KH/PH CO2 charts would even be semi accurate for my tank. I've determined that they are not. I figure that a reading of about 25ppm of CO2 on a brand new, un-stocked, heavily planted, CO2 less tank that had been running with the lights on for about 5 hours is not an accurate result. 

Anyways, I am going to start dosing today, I hope everything goes well. I'd also like to get a drop checker to get a more accurate CO2 reading. Are there any ones that are recommended or any ones that aren't? Also, would a drop checker be able to determine how much CO2 was in the water from nothing but fish respiration? Excel doesn't effect drop checkers right?


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## Left C

How are things going?


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## Fishguy10

So far so good. The algae that I had has actually disappeared almost entirely. My HC looks a lot better and my other plants seem to be growing well. My Downoi does not seem to be melting, it is actually getting new growth. It had lost all of it's lower leaves, but not it is starting to regrow them. It seems like everything is working out. Thank you for all of your help and input.


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## Left C

I am glad to hear your good news!


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## Fishguy10

Thank you, right now I'm dosing excel daily and flourish 3 days a week and it seems to be working out. It will be interesting to see how my tank looks a few weeks from now.


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## Left C

I'm glad that it is looking good.

With your somewhat high lighting, you will be needing to dose NPK unless you are getting some from your tap water, fish food, etc.

Adding Excel daily and Flourish 3x weekly is a good start, but to be successful, you will need NPK and maybe GH Booster too..


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## Fishguy10

Thanks for the response, I will need to get some NPK. I don't know about GH booster though, I don't really like adding any chemicals at all, but I really don't like changing my water. I'll have to look into it though.


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## Left C

GH Booster is mostly K, Ca and Mg. Seachem's Equilibrium is a GH Booster as well. It adds Mn and Fe to its K, Ca and Mg.

If you have soft water, your plants can use the nutrients found in GH Boosters. If Your water is moderatly had, many times it is lacking Mg. Dosing Epsom salt adds Mg. If your water is hard, you probably don't need a GH Booster. You can test your GH or you can contact your local water supply to find out this information.

Water changes help to flush out contaminates and reset the aquarium. They can be very important to the health of your plants, fish and shrimp.


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## Fishguy10

I didn't know that the GH booster was just nutrients, I thought that it was some kind of chemical. What I meant is that I don't like using the types of chemicals that alter PH or stuff like that. I prefer to stick with the conditions I have and choose fish and plants that work well with my conditions. I also do regular water changes. 

That is good to know that the GH booster is actually just nutrients. Even though it may effect my water, the plants would like it so it would probably be worth it. I do have very soft water, not exactly sure how soft because my test kit for GH doesn't work properly. If I remember right it is somewhere around 1-2 degrees I think. Thank you for the information.


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## Left C

I have soft water too. My GH is 2. I add a GH Booster. Sometimes I use Equilibrium and sometimes it is one of the GH Boosters. It depends on which one that I have at the time.

Since GH Booster does not contain any carbonates or any acidic and alkaline chemicals, it doesn't alter your pH or KH. It just boosts your GH.


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## Fishguy10

That is good to know that it doesn't affect PH or KH. I thought that it would effect everything. Thanks for the info, I'll have to check out GH boosters. By the way, what GH levels are generally recommended for planted aquariums? I thought that the GH was supposed to be pretty low, but I'm not sure.


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## Left C

You can increase your GH by 2 or 3 dGH with a GH Booster and be in good shape.


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## Fishguy10

Thanks for the information


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## Left C

Good luck with your aquarium!


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