# I rescaped my shrimp tank



## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

My shrimp tank went through a bad period lately, where I think the combination of low to zero kH and the introduction of pressurized Co2 (was using DIY successfully) resulted in the loss of most of my shrimp, including all of my Crystal Reds. I also question planaria in this loss as well, although my guess is that the kh and co2 were the culprits. 

Anyway, I decided to redo the tank. I removed the huge cave with Pelia on it (although loose Pelia is still seen and I'll remove it slowly. Was worried about a mini cycle if I took it all out). 

I can't tell for sure, but I think the shrimp that are left really like this new 'scape


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Sorry to hear of your losses, that really sucks  ... I can see why your shrimp would like your new scape, lots of places to play and hide.


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

Sorry to hear you lost ALL the crystal reds? Are you buffering up kh now? I setup a 10gallon tonina tank recently with RO, 0 kh. I tested couple of cherries in it without CO2, they did fine for over a week ph<6.0. Then I hooked up DIY CO2, they died within 2 days, I measured ph with my pinPoint probe, ph=4.8!

I found I have planaria in the shrimp tank as well(only after you had a thread on it), they don't seem to bother the shrimps one bit.


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

I think the planaria might go after the baby shrimp. It seems my planaria in my Killitank all float on the top -- interestingly enough the killies I have fry stay at the top between the leaves and the surface of the water. Only one baby Killi I've raised... I hate to kill any animal, but planaria has to go! Maybe I'll start a thread at some point about trying to find one good thing about planaria..lol. 

Yep, I lost ALL the Crystals. I think they went slowly, I just wasn't really paying much attention to the tank -- when I noticed, there were only 4 left. Then I saw a baby, but it apparently didn't make it either. Then there were none....

Yes, I'm buffering the water now with each water change. It's between a 3 and 4 now. I may cave and use some Onyx sand or something because I can't say I'm really good about measuring anything, i.e. the calcium carbonate I'm using.


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Shalu, I'm wondering, if water is a ph of say 6 or below -- how do the plants do without any co2 over an extended period of time. Would be kind of interesting to note. I do know that I've read (of course the validity who knows?) that in Asia they routinely keep ph less than 6 for the Toninas and reportedly do fine with the Crystals. It always made me nervous just thinking of it, but my guess is my tank went that low as well. I really think it was the pressurized Co2 although I thought the Hagen ladder would be inefficient enough to prevent the co2 from being too high -- that and the snails that often get in the way of the bubbles! I guess I was wrong, though


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Aw, sorry about your losses PG. You of all people know how to take good care of them, so it's tough when things like that happen.

You're new scape looks great, and I bet the shrimp love it.  

I could send you a small portion of crushed coral (that's all it takes) to keep your hardness at a steady rate, if you're interested. I had to buy a 20 lb. bag just to get about a cup out....


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Thanks Jan -- I might just have to take you up on that!


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

Piscesgirl said:


> Shalu, I'm wondering, if water is a ph of say 6 or below -- how do the plants do without any co2 over an extended period of time. Would be kind of interesting to note. I do know that I've read (of course the validity who knows?) that in Asia they routinely keep ph less than 6 for the Toninas and reportedly do fine with the Crystals. It always made me nervous just thinking of it, but my guess is my tank went that low as well. I really think it was the pressurized Co2 although I thought the Hagen ladder would be inefficient enough to prevent the co2 from being too high -- that and the snails that often get in the way of the bubbles! I guess I was wrong, though


The tank was only without CO2 initially for a week or two, so I don't know the long term effect, but I suspect it would be just fine for easier plants that do not demand CO2. My main shrimp tank is CO2 less, but with higher kh/ph. One interesting thing about the low ph tank is, I have not found even one bit of algae. A small patch of BBA that came on a leaf turned white. Seems low ph kills/inhibits algae, no wonder those asian tonina tanks look so clean


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Maybe you (or someone) should do an experiment for us with low ph Tonina tanks with no Co2. I think would be very interesting.  Like with RO water consistently.


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

This one uses Excel only, don't know the ph/kh numbers,
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=7764


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Yea that's a very nice tank. I kind of put Excel in the same category as Co2. I bet the ph in that tank is low, though considering the use of Aquasoil.


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Did a water change today and increased the lights back again. The wood has tinted the water (which I like). I'm still debating whether to go back to DIY Co2. My co2 tank is about empty, so I don't have long to ponder... I removed most of the Pelia, but there's still bits and pieces around. I tied one piece to a rock in the front so I can remove it to trim. Otherwise I'll remove what bits are still in there with each water change.


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Water change today found my tank to have a kh back to 1. I'm going to have to use a more permanent solution than Calcium Carbonate like bits of coral substrate or a cuttlebone fragment...I've just been reluctant to lose the control that I have with the Cal. Carbonate.

Picture attached. Sorry, my hands are shaky and I saved it way smaller than I thought.


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## richy (Nov 8, 2004)

PG,

How are the survivors doing? Are they thriving (e.g., breeding and such)?

rich


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Hey Richy, the survivors were only Cherry shrimp, and I suppose they probably won't thrive until I get the kh stable  I tested and got it to 2 today, then added more calcium carbonate today. I hate to raise it too fast..... Need to get my hands on some shell substrate or cuttle bone.


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Please let me know how that goes PG. That might explain why I can't keep a shrimp alive to save my life. I don't buffer my almost negligible KH.

Here's a special nostalgia tank for you PG. It's the first shrimp tank I ever


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Will do Phil -- yep, you probably need to buffer a bit! 

Were you going to post a tank picture??? Your sentence stopped abruptly too.


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Yes, but I couldn't find a way to link it to the source. It's on the old CAAS gallery and it's said "no linkie to me".


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

I moved a few dozen cherries from main shrimp tank to the new soft water plant tank. They have now adjusted well. kh=1. gh=1. ph=5.5, DIY CO2. I tried to increase surface agitation at night to avoid any ph crash and release them of any stress that might have been brought on by low ph during the day. Their behavior now is very natural, no longer zipping around in the tank. Quite a few started carrying eggs, I expect they will breed in this tank too.


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Increasing the surface agitation at night would be the best thing to do, but this tank is right next to my bed...so the noise would probably keep me from sleeping. On a good note, I've had baby cherrys now for a week -- so it appears that I've got the tank recovered a little bit. I've actually been adding a bit of calcium carbonate every night!!! It is still at 2 kh. I guess the snails and shrimp are using it up pretty heavily for their shells. Snails are looking a little less translucent (which is actually what keyed me into the fact my kh was down). I bought some Onyx sand, and I'll add a bit of that to the tank with the next water change. It helps buffer quite well.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Glad to hear that your tank is recovering


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Thanks Trena! I talked to someone today who lost all her Crystals within an hour of disturbing the substrate and churning it up a bit. That also makes me wonder because I had kept removing lots of plants and churning up the substrate too....


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

(clickable image to enlarge)

Here's the tank as of today. I've removed most of the stem plants and the few handfuls of Onyx sand are stabilizing the kh to 3.  Cherry babies are doing well. I planned on getting some more Crystals but I'm not so sure now. I may just leave this a Cherry Shrimp tank as I really keep wanting to simplify my life!


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

It's looking good... I've been thinking about doing a tank with no stem plants. But I'm worried about if there would be a problem with algae, since most fast growers are stem plants.


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Well, luckily the shrimp pretty much take care of any algae that rears its ugly head, but I just got tired of all the maintenance of the stem plants and all the roots they would send out. I'll have to wait and see if this is really any less trouble or not


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Let me know what the results are, I'm interested.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Looking good PG.  

My 55 gallon is almost stem plant free (mostly Anubias, mosses and ferns), and I don't notice any more algae in there than any of the other tanks. Of course I have a hard working Bristlenose (Fred) in there too.


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Thanks Jan! I love my bristlenose in my 55 gallon -- he is an absolute hoot! He won't let me take a picture of him but he's always striking odd poses.


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Wonderful news! Baby Crystals once again  There only appear to be a couple, but it is so nice to see them again. Interestingly, it appears that they stay somewhat close to a small area -- where they are born maybe? I suspect maybe until they get a bit larger. The Cherry shrimp don't seem to be this way I don't think, but every time I look for the Crystal babies I find them in around the same area (same plants). This has been now several days. 

I'll update a picture soon of the tank.


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## dancer (Oct 17, 2005)

Congrats on the babies! Always exciting to see new borns.
I guess CRS babies are more shy comparing to cherries. My Cherry babies usually flying around the tanks after a week or so. I would like to try CRS when they are available here in Canada. But my PH is around 8, do you think its too high for CRS? What PH do you keep them in?



Piscesgirl said:


> Wonderful news! Baby Crystals once again  There only appear to be a couple, but it is so nice to see them again. Interestingly, it appears that they stay somewhat close to a small area -- where they are born maybe? I suspect maybe until they get a bit larger. The Cherry shrimp don't seem to be this way I don't think, but every time I look for the Crystal babies I find them in around the same area (same plants). This has been now several days.
> 
> I'll update a picture soon of the tank.


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## amber2461 (Jun 15, 2004)

Congrats on the babies, post the pictures soon !


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Thanks Marge! I'll post pictures of the tank soon, but my camera probably can't capture the little guys unfortunately  I might try anyway, though.


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Ok here is a very blurry picture of a itty bitty baby Crystal Red:









And, here's the tank as of today (also a bit blurry):


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Thank you Dancer (I missed your post at first). I'm not sure what my ph would be right now if I wasn't using Co2, but my water is very soft. Still, I ended up having to add Onyx sand to buffer it up (especially because of the Co2). 

I'm not 100% convinced you need soft water for Crystals, but you do need very good water quality. They are much less forgiving than the Cherries.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Aww, it's so cute.... Congrats! That's an accomplishment that many shrimp keepers dream of.


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## dancer (Oct 17, 2005)

Very nice! Although the pic is little blury, but I can clearly see its very high grade. Btw, how old is the baby?


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Thank you Jan and Dancer, again. 

My Crystals aren't high grade, so I suspect the white striping on this baby will eventually be overcome by red as he/she grows larger. I actually don't like the white stripe to be too large, maybe somewhere between high grade and what my shrimps are like. 

The babies are only several days old -- not quite a week I don't think (can't remember first day I saw them -- this time I've been watching closely, though).


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Congrats PG... Tank is coming along nicely


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

Thanks Trena!


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

I got a better picture of a baby Crystal. See the 'giant' Malaysian Trumpet Snail under him. hehe.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Wow, those snails do look like monsters compared to the baby shrimp.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

trenac said:


> Wow, those snails do look like monsters compared to the baby shrimp.


LOL! Yes, they do. What are you feeding those monster snails PG? 

How many little shrimp do you think you have?


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

I think I may have about five, which is more than I thought I would have. The mother was pregnant when I got her, lost one egg in acclimation, and hadn't had many to begin with. I was worried she'd end up losing them all, but no 



> What are you feeding those monster snails PG?


hehe...it's my master plan to prepare them for Godzilla vs the Malaysian Trumpet Snails!!!!


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