# Can't get hair algae to go away!



## Catastrophi (May 23, 2006)

I really don't konw whats wrong. I've decreased lighting period to 8 hours and upped the co2 but I'm still getting algae. Heres tank info

72 gallon planted tank
260 watts/8hrs a day
eco-complete substrate
KH:11
PH:6.8-7.0
3/4 tsp NO3 3x a week
1/4 tsp CSM+B 3x a week
1/4 tsp KH2P04 3x a week
1/4 tsp k2S04 3x a week

I'll post pictures whenever my sister can get back with the camera. Anyone have any suggestions to get rid of it?


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

_How long has it been since you made these changes?..._ Depending on the severity of the algae outbreak, it can take quit a while.

_Do you know the exact readings of the N03, P04 and C02?_


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## Catastrophi (May 23, 2006)

I made the changes last week sometime. I don't know the readings of N03 or P04 because I don't have test kits for them. co2 is around 25ppm.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

I would give it some more time to clear up, a week is not enough. The C02 reading is good and you want to keep N03 at 10ppm/P04 at 1ppm.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

I agree that you will need more time to see if the the algae clears up, but that's alot of light on a 72g. Not to say it's bad, but you have little wiggle room for error. You need to be heavily planted and have a light fish load for that to work IMO.


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

Overdose Flourish excel.


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## Avalon (Mar 7, 2005)

Catastrophi said:


> I really don't konw whats wrong. I've decreased lighting period to 8 hours and upped the co2 but I'm still getting algae. Heres tank info
> 
> 72 gallon planted tank
> 260 watts/8hrs a day
> ...


Try that and see if it works. You will need to manually remove as much as you can. It should cease to grow so fast, and eventually die off. Give it about 3 weeks or so. If necessary, increase water changes to every 3-4 days.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

The most likely problem is that you don't really have 25 ppm of CO2 in the water. Our testing methods just aren't accurate for measuring CO2. If you don't have a lot of expensive fish you can try raising the CO2 bubble rate a bit, then watch the fish carefully to be sure they are not being stressed by the CO2. If not, raise it a bit more and repeat. The last time I did this I raised it once a week until my BBA problem went away. Hair algae also tends to show up with low CO2. Whatever else you do, you have to manually remove as much of the hair algae as you can, and keep doing it. Higher CO2 doesn't kill it, just inhibits its regrowth.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

Avalon,

_PH:6.8-7.0 Too high, lower to 6.2-6.5_
Wouldn't a ph of 6.2 and a kh of 11 give him over 200ppm of co2.

_3/4 tsp NO3 3x a week Too high, cut in half_
Not sure how you could make that call from the information given. Without knowing his plant mass it's hard to cut down on something 3/4 tsp for a 72g with that kind of light falls within EI ranges.

Everyone is intitled to his or her opinons, but some things are universal truths.
More light, more waste, more chance of algae issues.
Less light, less waste, less chance of algae issues.

Hight light tanks need to have very little livestock and have very heavy plant stock otherwise it just doesn't work. I find it interesting that more attention is given to dosing alittle more of this or a little less of that.


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## Catastrophi (May 23, 2006)

According to the fert calculator on here my P04 is a bit high. Should I cut that down? My tank is pretty heavily planted and I have around 15 tetras, 3 cories, a school of otos, and 2 rams.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Hi phosphate or high nitrate will not cause algae. So, there isn't a lot of point to reducing the dosing. Your dosing is around 3X what I dose in a tank with about one third the water, so is isn't far off base. I still think you need to jack up the CO2.


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## Avalon (Mar 7, 2005)

houseofcards said:


> Avalon,
> 
> _PH:6.8-7.0 Too high, lower to 6.2-6.5_
> Wouldn't a ph of 6.2 and a kh of 11 give him over 200ppm of co2.
> ...


I find it interesting that tanks above 60 or so gallons radically change in their needs. I've owned many tanks...10, 20, 29...75, 100. There is no doubt that small tanks are extremely different in their ways than large tanks. Small tanks are easy to maintain--every "rule" posted works. I dump nutrients that would defy logic into my 10g, yet if I did the same to my 75g, algae would take over, and always has.

In short, the larger the tank is, the less it needs in light & nutrients. I've had this verified by several other people. The EI "recommended dosage" is incorrect for a 75g tank. I've tested it, as well as received feedback from others. PO4 is ALWAYS way too high at 1/4 tsp 3x week. I'm not so worried about the nitrates, but 3/4 tsp. is too high. 1/2 tsp. will work just fine (just don't skip). I've practiced for years on tap water with a KH of 13 on the amount of CO2 needed to keep plants happy and algae away. A pH of 6.2 or lower has always worked. I no longer trust or use the CO2 chart. I trust my own eyes.

Personally, I think CO2 is the key. In a small tank, it's so easy to get plenty of CO2 to your plants. The more CO2, light, and nutrients you have, the better the plants grow. In large tanks, I think the ability to supply CO2 to the plants under high light is hindered at an exponential rate. Slowing the entire process in large tanks is necessary in order to hit the "sweet spot" of plant growth. Simply put, the nutrient demands of my 10g vs. my 75g are totally different while maintaining very similar water parameters. One thing holds true to them both: plenty of CO2, and it's far easier to inject CO2 into soft water then it is into high KH water.

We all yearn for a chart or calculator to tell us what we want to know, yet we turn the other cheek to what we need to know. Watch your plants. They will tell you everything; it's up to you to understand what they are saying.


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## Catastrophi (May 23, 2006)

Okay. From what I've read I should crank up the co2 and cut down on the nitrates?


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Up the co2 _first_ and see how that goes. It's better to change one thing at a time so you can pinpoint the problem. And I agree that that's the most likely culprit.

I disagree that you can't get algae from overdosing. In my experience, you can. It's just pretty hard to do and probably not the problem here.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Best way to judge the actual CO2 content.......

Take some water from your tank and let an airstone bubble air through it for about 8 or 10 hours. Measure the pH by some reliable means and record it as the "degassed pH". If you don't have an airstone just let it sit open to air in a container with a large surface area for about 12-24 hours. Note and record the KH just for fun.

Then add enough CO2 to your tank to drop the pH 1.0 units from the "degassed" level. This technique eliminates most of the variables that invalidate usual CO2 calculations. If you do this, you'll end up with a CO2 concentration that is 10 times higher than atmospheric equilibrium. There is some debate on what this actual number is, but I take a 1.0 unit drop to put you in the neighborhood of 30ppm. Regardless of the exact number, I've found this method to provide a reliable means of getting "enough" CO2 into the tank.

Caveat - go slowly, watch the fishies. You need a reliable, reproducible way to measure pH to really get this to work. If you only get a 0.7 pH unit drop you'll have only 50% as much CO2 as you will at a 1.0 pH drop. The CO2 concentration increases exponentially with pH, not linearly. If you overshoot to a 1.3 unit drop you'll have 100% more than at 1.0. Most cheapie test kits can't distinguish a 0.3 pH error with much accuracy so some caution is reasonable.

All that aside, I found it almost impossible to rid the tank of thread algae until I cut the fish load way back. In your case though, your level of stocking for a 72g seems pretty light by most standards.


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## marvelous (Jul 29, 2006)

houseofcards
Just curious, but how do you supply your plants with CO2 and how much light versus the size of your tank?


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

marvelous said:


> houseofcards
> Just curious, but how do you supply your plants with CO2 and how much light versus the size of your tank?


marvelous,
I have pressurized co2 with a ceramic diffusor under a spray bar. I'm running 192watts of cf light on my 72g which is 2.7wpg. I run the lights with a midday burst of 6 hours.


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