# Neons almost all died



## queijoman (Jun 23, 2008)

My situation is -- I converted my tank recently to el natural about a month ago. At first everything was fine. After a month I added 10 neon tetras and 4 angelfish because there was a local sale, and ever since then I have been having massive neon death. I have since purchased 5 more. Today I only have two living neon tetras. (I started out with 2, so now I am back to what I had in the beginning, but not the same 2 fish I had before.)

I haven't had anything else die, just neons, so I was wondering if anyone else has had any problems with having neons in an immature el-natural tank???

Here are my specs:
30 gal.
HOB filter with sponge media only (I had carbon for the first month)
3 consecutive 5 gallon (~15%) water changes 1X per week
Plants:
Mixed Fast and Slow growers.
No ferts, still using diy co2 w/ hagen ladder
~1 hour of direct sunlight per day w/ ~7 hours of 55W CF lighting
Fish: 1 small pleco, 1 guppy, 2 medium size rainbowfish, 4 small angelfish, 3 corys, 4 ottos, 4 khuli loaches, 1 swordtail.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Most neon tetras in fish shops come from southeast Asia, where they are produced by the millions. The ones that are usually offered for sale at low prices are tiny and usually less than 2 or 3 months old. They have already passed through several sets of hands by the time we see them. They are not strong fish and poor bets for survival.

Larger neons cost more but they are more likely to survive. They still are somewhat picky about water quality.

Good luck!

Bill


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## chinton (Aug 17, 2009)

I am in the same boat with my neons. My 10G NPT has been up and running about a month now. 5days after the plants were settled in, I decided to stock. 

I added 5 black neon tetras from Petco. The next morning I was down to 4, but couldnt find the dead one. I had seen a double-tail betta i wanted the same night as i purchased the neons so i went back and got him the day i noticed one fish missing.

For the next couple of days, I had 1 neon die each night until I had only 1 and the betta. 

yesterday I went back and got 5 regular neon tetras (red/blue) to try and increase the bio load. About 2 hrs after introducing the new fish, 1 died... 

I woke up this morning and found another one dead and now as I watch the tank a 3rd is bobbing around the top.

The betta, 2 remainng neon tetras, and 1 black neon tetra appear to be perfectly fine as they swim around the tank.

I tested my water parameters after each death. PH remains a constant 7.2 while nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia are all 0ppm


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## firefiend (Aug 17, 2009)

Neons are not a hardy fish. Finding a healthy stock is nearly impossible in a LFS. This is why most places do not warranty them.

They just die for seemingly no reason at all.

/shrug


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## bartoli (May 8, 2006)

firefiend said:


> Neons are not a hardy fish.


I would go as far as saying that neon tetra is delicate. But it is also the most playful fish that I know of. When neon tetras play, the tank lights up!

When introducing neon tetras to a tank, I typically drip assimilate a couple hours (at the rate of two-drop per second) before moving them to the tank.

While neon tetras survive pH of above 7, I have much better outcome when pH is around 6. Thus, in my Walstad-tank with only neon tetras, I use pressurized CO2.

Neon tetras are easily stressed. But when they are in a tank all by themselves, they feel secure and tend to play a lot.


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## chinton (Aug 17, 2009)

I think my neons may have also died due to lack of oxygen @ night. Yesterday morning the last one was gasping at the surface but as the tank started to get sunlight it started swimming more actively and returned to normal. 

This morning i found it dead. im thinking about running a small internal filter w/ venturi @ during the night to keep things oxygenated.

How my black neon tetra learned to adapt to the conditions I do not know (unless firefiend is correct and I got lucky).

My next try is going to be harlequin rasboras as im reading they are much hardier


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

chinton said:


> I think my neons may have also died due to lack of oxygen @ night. Yesterday morning the last one was gasping at the surface but as the tank started to get sunlight it started swimming more actively and returned to normal.
> 
> This morning i found it dead. im thinking about running a small internal filter w/ venturi @ during the night to keep things oxygenated.
> 
> ...


Queijoman,

I don't think that a lack of oxygen is killing your fish. Your DIY CO2 doesn't produce enough to cause problems, and the other fish seem to be doing OK. The HOB filter probably causes enough surface agitation to remedy any oxygen deficiency, if there is one.

I still think the neons were weak when you got them. But if you see symptoms in the other fish, you should look further.

BTW, any new fish is a potential source of disease. They should be quarantined for several weeks before they are added to an existing tank.

Bill


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## griffin7882 (Apr 26, 2006)

if they're in with a betta, that might also cause issues as the betta is likely to harass the neons


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## Dustymac (Apr 26, 2008)

I know they're pretty, but according to Diana's book, most plants do better with hard water and a ph above 7. That's just the opposite from the optimum conditions for neons. That's why I don't even try neons in my NPTs. 

If you have to get your fish from the LFS, which is always a crapshoot, you might try bloodfins, scissortails or black-lined tetras. My daughter brought home 6 of the latter from Walmart one night, and they're all doing fine after nearly two years. Go figure...

Jim


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## ItsDubC (Jan 12, 2008)

bartoli brought up a good point; How are you acclimating these tetras? I do something similar to the drip method over the course of about an hour for small fish. All of the ember tetras I got from Petsmart about 6 months ago are alive and well in my 10g NPT having been introduced in this way.


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## yannzgob (Jul 23, 2009)

I've had similar problems with neons recently. I had bought six, three days later, I was down to three (those three survivors are still alive and kicking today, though). One of the fishes had died in the bag during transport. One disappeared body and soul the following night. The last one to die was agonizing the same morning. I bought it to the LFS to show them and I got the three refunded. Got lucky for that.

The water of my NPT was almost nitrate-free and had a stable pH of around 7.2. No ferts, no added CO2. Water hadn't been changed in a loooong while, so it was not a matter of chlorines. The ten pristellas I already had have been totally unaffected, neither were the two Synodontis I brought in along with the neons. Those two are still alive and give a show when they venture out of their hideouts.

I guess they were just weaklings.

Yann


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## jqtheplantnoob (Sep 26, 2009)

I have to disagree with the neons are delicate thing. I cycled a tank with some (before I knew any better) and their still alive close to a year later. The likely culprit is your Angels. BTW I also had a betta who helped himself to neons until they fought back and nipped the christ out of him, he's now in solitary confinement (a 2.5 gallon tank).


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## jqtheplantnoob (Sep 26, 2009)

I guess it comes down to the quality of the LFS.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

I've had a school of half dollar-sized angels eat 12 neons in about 3 weeks, in a heavily planted tank.

Yesterday at Petland I saw a tank of large, full-bodied neons for $1.79 each. Had i needed more fish I would have bought them with every confidence that they would survive. I would have taken a week to slowly acclimated them to my water first, though.

Bill


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

How about a picture of the tank and fish that are dying? 

Chemical imbalances can affect the fish. I almost lost my Neon Rainbow until I dosed with Calcium sulphate.

If the fish are gasping at the top there is low O2. I found doing a water change and dosing with Hydro peroxide helped.


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## queijoman (Jun 23, 2008)

dawntwister said:


> How about a picture of the tank and fish that are dying?
> 
> Chemical imbalances can affect the fish. I almost lost my Neon Rainbow until I dosed with Calcium sulphate.
> 
> If the fish are gasping at the top there is low O2. I found doing a water change and dosing with Hydro peroxide helped.


I think you might be on to something. I might have some kind of chemical imbalance, but I am not sure.

To update everyone, I have since added more neons, angelfish, and guppies. All of which died within days or a week of being introduced. The existing fish in the tank are looking fine and happy, but newbies are having a hard time adjusting... Each time I bought fish I changed ~50% of the water, and have been doing 50% water changes every other week.


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## geeks_15 (Dec 9, 2006)

I really like neon tetras, but I don't buy them anymore. I've had the same situation with them repeatedly dying. I've tried in heavily planted, well established, soft acidic water tanks (RO) and they still die. I bought some from more reputable LFS's but still had little success. I'm leary of buying any fish at the big box pet stores anymore.

You can also add german blue rams to that list. I spent about a year trying to match the water chemisty to their natural habitat by mixing RO water and tap water with no success keeping these fish. I've had much more success with apistos.

The only rams or neons I would buy would have to be locally raised. I still haven't even tried that. Too gunshy.


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## bartoli (May 8, 2006)

My neon tetra tank is also heavily planted with soft acidic water. But I have seen pH fluctuated quite a bit in that kind of water. Thus, I use pressurized CO2 with a CO2 controller to have the pH remains low and stable.


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