# Freshwater Refugium on Reverse Light Schedule



## urville (Sep 20, 2004)

I have looked all over creation for good info on this. i've found a mere two refrences that were informative or showed any result.
TheKrib had info on growing plants this way but more to the effect of using hydroponics, which is not what i want.

So if anyone has good links or info, journals, articles etc on this i am very much interested!!


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

Much more something Marine folks suggested works well, I've not found evidence that it does though....................

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## jimjim (Jan 25, 2004)

*reverse refugium*

Urville; back in the 60s(late) I used what was called alge scubbers. They're a refugium with lots of light over the top to encourage the growth of alge(in place of plants). On 50 to 100 gal tanks we'd use 20longs up to 40 gal breeders(48" long) with corrugated fiberglas siding cut to sit at an angle and them cascade the water over it. Worked real well with oscars in breeding setups (messy). The main differance was we'd leave the lights on 24/7. Look up Alge scubbers on the net, it might give you some ideas...Jim


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## Osteomata (Jan 11, 2005)

What is even the basic concept/logic behind reverse light schedule refugiums? Is the idea to constantly have something growing and thus using up all the water column ferts so algae can't use them? Or is it as simple as drawing less electrical power all at once?


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## MiamiAG (Jan 13, 2004)

The logic is to stablize pH.

A refugium for saltwater is just what it says, a refuge for delicate species that won't make it in the tank. In addition, the addition of fast growing macro algae will pull down phosphates. They are also a great source of pods to feed your fish and coral.

For the freshwater side, however, I'm not convinced about their use. Perhaps if you have very few plants in the main tank because of fish species and you want to have fast growing plants in a refugium to take up nutrients. In the past, there was talk about using hornwort in a refugium because of it's algae-killing properties...


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

Art_Giacosa said:


> The logic is to stablize pH.
> 
> A refugium for saltwater is just what it says, a refuge for delicate species that won't make it in the tank. In addition, the addition of fast growing macro algae will pull down phosphates. They are also a great source of pods to feed your fish and coral.
> 
> For the freshwater side, however, I'm not convinced about their use. Perhaps if you have very few plants in the main tank because of fish species and you want to have fast growing plants in a refugium to take up nutrients. In the past, there was talk about using hornwort in a refugium because of it's algae-killing properties...


The reverse apllication has not proven to do anything benefitial near as I can tell. pH is less of an issue(respiration from CO2) with skimmers and other aerating devices. The diunal variations have not influenced growth rates in macro algaes.

24/7 lighting was done to prevent macro algae from melting and going sexual, this reasoning was dubious............

It has been shown, initially by myself, then by many folks, that low NO3, NO3 bottoming out is the __real cause__ for the algae going sexual.
When ample levels of NO3 are added, then this issue is no logner an issue.

The facts suggested this and when someone finally added KNO3 to see(myself) suddenly we found better growth, no melting and a fairly good NO3 removal rate by the plants.

The thing is, too many Reef folks are scared and use to limiting nutrients, NO3 and PO4.

You can lower the PO4 by using a refuge and dosing ample NO3.
Plants and macro algae can handle low PO4 vs NO3 much better.

Corals also grow better when the NO3 are slightly higher.
Also: several species of marine Cyanobacteria also prefer low NO3 levels and maintaining good NO3 levels prevents reoccurances. Blackout method works perfectly as well on marine tanks.

I see no real use for Refuges on a FW system except for where the fish/critters would eat the plants in the main tank(so just a plant filter), otherwise, just plant the main tank.

Karen Randall gave me this arguement years ago.
I have used reverse lighting methods, I never found them of any use personally.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## urville (Sep 20, 2004)

actually i wanted to do reverse lighting to maintain oxygen levels in a heavily planted tank for the heavy fishload... i never thought about ph....

as to having the sump with lighting at all... well i was gonna use it to start farming plants and shrimp and what not, and it reminded me of the off cycle refugium and i thought ... two birds one stone...

as a side note... i am actually going to go larger scale get a lot of large plastic bins from wal-mart and run a series of water linked tanks like my lfs does
and start farming plants, shrimp, killies, rarer plecos and fish... sell them for much lower prices than the 10 to 30 a piece my lfs is always asking..., also some brackish to raise nerites, etc...

ever siunce i was 7 i dreamed of owning a fish store and as i dont have the capitol for full on store front right now... well...


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

I think you'll find the depletion on O2 is not that great.
But it'll not hurt to do so in this application...........

A sump/refuge is a good place to grow out some Cherry shrimps etc as long as they don't get sucked up into the filter/pump etc.

I'd use something like Egeria najas for the filter.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## blue (Jul 5, 2005)

I have a lit sump for spare plants and "special fish." It is on the normal lighting cycle as it spills into the room. For breeding angels and shrimp I use smaller tanks as the water is a little more stable (during moderate waterchanges) and I can keep the current down so the fry are not blown away. For breeding shrimp, I am back to a air driven sponge filter as I hear the larve are small and tend to get sucked (and live) in HOB and canistar filters. Sounds like you are best off with buckets.



urville said:


> as to having the sump with lighting at all... well i was gonna use it to start farming plants and shrimp and what not, and it reminded me of the off cycle refugium and i thought ... two birds one stone...


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## urville (Sep 20, 2004)

oh yeah for all fry rearing i use panyhose cut up over the intakes... it doesnt clog too often as theres not much in those "tanks", and the mesh is superfine... it just seems cost effective to use big plastic tubs that cost between $4 and $7 than buy big tanks for the same purpose... they are for rearing and breeding and growing plants for trade and sale not even remotely setup for viewing....


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