# Ammonia?



## MacFan (Jul 30, 2006)

I've been keeping tanks for many years without significant issue. I've had my share of errors that lead to fish death, but recently, I've had two tanks experience ammonia spikes related to water changes. 

I was setting up an RO storage tank/distribution system like I had before the fire a few years ago. The RO setup I got had a DI cartridge in it, I was going to use it, and filled the first tank with it, but then noticed rust coming out of the pump. Research found that DI water is extremely corrosive to many metals that are not stainless steel or bronze. I'm debating whether to try to treat the rust inside with a rust conversion chemical or leave well enough alone. Iron is not necessarily a problem, right?

Anyway, I was testing it and dispensed a bit into my 150g tank before going to the sink and running a bunch down the drain. Then I topped off my other tanks. The roselines in the 150g looked a bit stressed, so I did a water change, they continued to look bad, so we did another water change. By morning they were all dead. I tested the tap water and found at least 0.5ppm of ammonia in it, which surprised me. I had been using tap water with treatment for 4 years without an issue. The other tanks were fine, so I used RO water to do a couple water changes. The fish perked up, but I still lost the majority of our Goodeids. Luckily, enough adults remain that they will repopulate. Also luckily we didn't lose our Clown loaches or ancistris. 

I've since done a water change in our 240g using the RO water without a problem. But last night I was topping off tanks and my new 20g tank that I've had up for about a month, having done no water changes at all (but with all the media the Fluval filter came with, which appeared to include some carbon and some ammonia media.) I hadn't used the RO system in a week or so, and after filling a bit, I got some big air bubbles. I stopped and dispensed into the sink, where it got all rust colored for a bit. My pencil fish were up at the surface after, so I opted for a water change. It probably would have been ok if I hadn't then added baking soda since it tested 0 KH. That brought it up to pH 7 or so, and probably allowed ammonia to become toxic. So I've lost at least 4 of 5 pencil fish, but luckily not our dwarf cories or shrimp. I did a couple more water changes to get the pH back down, then ordered slimecoat and purigen from Amazon Prime Now. So hopefully it's stable... 

But it still leaves the confusion that I don't really know what happened. I've got reasonable plant loads, CO2, I'm fertilizing PPS-Pro, I started the 20g with media from an established tank. The last time I killed this many fish, it was overdosing Flourish Excel for BBA some 5-6 years ago. I guess I lost a bunch of fish after the fire, but that wasn't within my control. It wasn't the fire there, but the cold after the power was cut off in December. 

The RO stuff was all new, the tank had been stored outside so I washed it with bleach, rinsed and treated it. The pump was new, it was a new rubber garden hose, etc. 

I am still testing Ammonia content in the RO water. Apparently RO doesn't remove ammonia because ammonia is a gas and it's removing dissolved solids. I emptied the resin out of the DI cartridge and replaced it with Zeolite which should address ammonia coming in, but I've not actually emptied the tank completely and technically there is a top so I don't know that it would dissipate naturally. I ordered an inline garden hose filter to put on to capture the rust stuff, but there seems to be very little in the way of ammonia centric media it appears. And an aquarium friend says that things like Zeolite are dangerous because they absorb ammonia until they're saturated and then dump it back out. 

Anyway... any thoughts?


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## digital_gods (Apr 23, 2010)

MacFan said:


> I've been keeping tanks for many years without significant issue. I've had my share of errors that lead to fish death, but recently, I've had two tanks experience ammonia spikes related to water changes.
> 
> I was setting up an RO storage tank/distribution system like I had before the fire a few years ago. The RO setup I got had a DI cartridge in it, I was going to use it, and filled the first tank with it, but then noticed rust coming out of the pump. Research found that DI water is extremely corrosive to many metals that are not stainless steel or bronze. I'm debating whether to try to treat the rust inside with a rust conversion chemical or leave well enough alone. Iron is not necessarily a problem, right?
> 
> ...


Maybe let the water sit for 24 hours in a rubbermaid trashcan.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


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## MacFan (Jul 30, 2006)

So I just tested my tap water, 0.5ppm, and post RO/Zeolite, 0.25ppm. Was Sodium Thiosulfate that I used for chlorine fixing this, or is it a new problem?


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## CRPayne73 (Oct 10, 2017)

Hi!
New to the forum and have been out of the game for a bit, but some possible observations... 

Dallas uses chloramines (Chlorine bound to ammonia) to help sterilize the tap water.

Most RO/DI systems don't pull out chloramines.

Zeolite isn't really effective at removing chloramine either.

Sodium Thiosulfate will break the bond in chloramines and bind with chlorine, but releases residual ammonia.

This could explain NH3 readings, but I'm not sure if this would explain a sudden spike w/ water changes if you have done regular maintenance with the same water.

Some possible culprits, but nothing that jumps out IMO.


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