# "A Common Enemy"



## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

This might be my finest master piece yet
the reason for the name was cause after i got this baby planted and filled the wood floated back up (after soaking for a month) New wood= a common enemy

Tank: 60P
Filter: Hagen aquaclear 30
Lights: 2x55 (6700k, 8000k)
Substrate: amazonia , amazonia II
Injected co2
local rocks from landscape company
Manzanita.com wood
Ferts: Seachem lineup
Plants: (E. vivipara and E glosso not here yet so if you have some you can sell i would greatly appreciate it just small portions)
E. parvula, HC, Vasculara Ferreri, Hydrocotle verticalla, Bolbitus, Narrow leave java fern, and anubias petiete.

Fish: gonna put small tetras in i think perhaps maculatas.

enjoy thanks


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

update

found some glosso
added RCS

STILL LOOKING FOR E. VIVIPARA
please help if found please contact me.


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## chadly (Dec 19, 2005)

cool... your substrate flattened out...


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## WhiteDevil (May 7, 2009)

It always flattens out unless its supported. my 40g tall has 100# of eco complete in it, went from 2" at front to 6" at rear of tank with some hills and such, yeah that lasted maybe 24 hours.

It kinda sucks cause you make sure its perfect and then gravity takes over.


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## goldier (Feb 13, 2010)

WhiteDevil said:


> It always flattens out unless its supported.


That's the key. When I did a slope, I put long pieces of rocks as barrier along the width about 1/3 from the back wall, and repeat a second row with shorter height, then the "grain" substrate to cover up the barriers and the floor. The grade shifted a little, but the slope kept its shape.


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## goldier (Feb 13, 2010)

doubleott05 said:


>


Nice piece of tree stump with roots! I like how it wraps over the rock.


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

i really liked that slope i was dissapointed when it flattened out let me tell you.

ya ya i like that stump too i "created thoes roots" and the roots wrap over the rock cause i got a nice piece that flowed over the rock to create the illusion that its attached..

thanks for the comments everybody

Thanks
Elliot


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

I think it will look good as the plants grow. Why not try to reform your hill. You could use some small rocks and cover them up so you can't see them. That would keep your hill supported without seeing them.


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

ya i know i miss my hill. i have considered ideas such as yours texgal and goldier maybe this will give me something to do on the weekend. 

but i donno i dont wanna disturb my shrimps they just got done molting all 20 of them. so hmm i donno . do you think a substrate cloud will hurt them im new to shrimping. cuase that amazonia II soil really clouds the water when disturbed.

what do you guys think?


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Just do a water change after. Use a little extra prime to take care of any ammonia excess. Simply push rocks down in there gently. Try not to do a lot of scooping - just simple pushing. I think you'll be ok. Test for ammonia and do a water change everyday if you have to. I doubt it will be necessary. Just to be safe you could float some cycling plant in there temporarily.


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

good idea tex gal i think im gonna do that today or tomorrow


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

how that for a hill?


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

its still kinda cloudy ill take another pic when it clears


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## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

Thought about pinching some moss between the wood and glass to get it started emergent? That tree is gonna look nice.


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## goldier (Feb 13, 2010)

That hill is looking good!


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

thanks guys. 

you know wet thats a good idea!!!


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

UPDATE:

EARTHDATE: 04/07/2010

this tank has been a huge challenge. i just cant get it to stabalize. i finally got it growing. it was stunted for a while but finally took off.

cherry shrimp molt like every 2 days and now there finally about to reproduce.
bolbitus never took off so i took it out.
finally got my vivipara(or was sold as such, we shall see)
and got my E. belem (japan hairgrass)
went through 2 melts of hydrocotle verticalla finally its growing
and i finally got some co2 hooked up. airline directly to my intake of the filter. (aquatic magic has to be the most horrible place/ customer service i have ever ordered from. here we are 45 days later and no refund and no replacement co2 diffuser. they sent me a cracked one. a bazillion emails later and a ton of monkey crap i have decided to give up on them and never order from them again.)

i have a bit of green algae but the co2 should take care of that.

well enjoy comments are welcome


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## BJRuttenberg (Sep 25, 2005)

Looking good. Can't wait to see updates when it all fills in!


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

thanks BJ 

too bad i have a wicked green algea bloom that im having trouble getting under control.


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## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

I think most of the plants you have there and trying to get going are perfect for a dry start. You could avoid lots of troubles/algae/melts with going that way... specially with you having trouble getting your Co2 going. I don't think you're 'too late' for a dry start.

(just a thought)


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

actually thats a good idea... i have never done that before.... 

all i have to do is put saran wrap on top of the tank?? 
and leave it till it grows out?? 
what else do i do?


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## arowanaman (Jun 14, 2006)

If you put a Nitra zorb pad in the tank/filter you can eradicate that hair algae overnight. and I would cut the lighting back to no more than 6 hours a day and do a half tank water change every other day


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

oh ok thanks. i usually just destroy the algae with exel but this sounds safer


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## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

> actually thats a good idea... i have never done that before....
> 
> all i have to do is put saran wrap on top of the tank??
> and leave it till it grows out??
> what else do i do?


its pretty simple, basically you cover the tank so as not to let moisture escape but leaving a little gap for breathing/gas exchange... it could be saran wrap or even a piece of aquarium glass the size (or larger) than the footprint. Mist it once in a while (ferts enriched? )... and you can go crazy with your light period/intensity as there will be no algae/co2 concerns. It will grow very fast (specially HC and Hydrocotyle verticillata, they're weeds!). By the time you flood, your soil has gone through the initial adjustment, your low plants are growing healthily and you have had no issues with WC, cycle issues, column dosing, co2 etc....

Then just plant the stems or the other plants right before you flood. You could plant some of the 'amphibious' stems in the dry start... but what for? they'll probably change to emersed form and actually grow a bit slower emersed; also they have no problems when flooded. Its the low growers that are ussually at a big disadvantage vs the stems when the tank is flooded.

Here's a couple of link with more details:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/g...ion/52332-new-method-start-up-algae-free.html
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/68991-dry-start-method-shrimp-tanks.html


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

wow Thanks f1ea i gota go home and drain my tank right away


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## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

doubleott05 said:


> wow Thanks f1ea i gota go home and drain my tank right away


hehe most people dont have the patience to start a tank dry, because they want to try all their fancy brand new equipment and want to fill it up with neat fish right away....


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

well in my world fish are not necessary except for photo finishes for tourneys

and its cheaper to do it this way. less electricity and ferts are used.


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## farmhand (Apr 12, 2010)

My vote is you try the Dry Start. Like to see how it works for you.


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

i figured out y i had this outbreak.

almost all of my tanks are scaped wiht stems and they hog all the ferts.

this tank has all carpet plants and moss and fern. 

i think a dry start from what i have read is just what i need

thanks guys


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## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

Yeah, i thought about that (lack of stem/fast growers) as well, and also the delay with your Co2... 

Good luck!!


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

crap i went to drain the the tank yesterday and shrimp said "i need that water dude"!!!

so i total forgot that i had shrimps in there since there more or less self sufficent. lol 

looks like ill have too push through the algae like a warrior. aaaaaarrrrrrgh!!!! 

but next time im gonna for sure dry start infact i think im gonna go get my 15x15x15cm tank right now and dry start it by my computer right now buahahaahaaa. then ill make a new thread for it.


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

ok its called litte mountain. just see my hyperlink. its in teh aquascaping thread too


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

arowanaman thanks for the advice that nitrazorb pouch is the SH!+ !!!! so i added a nitrazorb pack and pressure co2 and some excel and in less than 24 hrs the water is crystal clear and the algae seems to have a loss of color.

ok so what was sold to me as E. vivipara is def not E. vivipara. (if you have some and want to make a sale let me know i need some vivipara. 
so i think its parvula or something

my E. Belem or japanese hairgrass what ever you wanna call it is coming along slowly. all of the old plugs are totally covered in green hair algae.
the same can be said for the Lilaeopsis brasiliensis

my weeping moss is growing great but cant compete with the algae just yet.

everything is covered in green hair algea but im hitting it hard with water changes, excel and pressure co2. im hoping ill wake up tomorrow and it will all be red or white and have a little white surrender flag in the morning.


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## PeterE (Feb 9, 2010)

Wow, I love that tree. It looks great covered with moss, and I think once the Hydrocotyle fills in around it's base it will look amazing. I hope that grows for you. It looks really good even with the algae!


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

thanks peterE!!! ya i have to say that the algae kinda gives it a natural look for some reason. thanks

oh and for some reason that hydrocotyle is growing really slow. is this a normal think for hydrocotyle?


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

what should i put where the red circle is? that wont take away from the depth or scense of size from the picture. remember this is a 60P
that gap comes from the back behind the wood to nearly the front of the tank


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## A.Dror (Jan 25, 2009)

*Looks great*(besides the green algea )



doubleott05 said:


> what should i put where the red circle is? that wont take away from the depth or scense of size from the picture. remember this is a 60P
> that gap comes from the back behind the wood to nearly the front of the tank


As i see it,any kind of hairgrass...and a little touch of anubia 'nana' in the front of it.

Good luck!


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

thanks A.Dror


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

wrong thread


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## LVKSPlantlady (Oct 4, 2009)

Hey doubleott05 have you tried using some floating plants, like duckweed or pennywort, to help withy your algae problems? Also My new fav plant is corkscrew vals, you should try that for your red circle...


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

thanks


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## goldier (Feb 13, 2010)

I also think a tall val with few blades floating over the water surface will frame the scape well. It's nice to see that trunk covered with moss.


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## arowanaman (Jun 14, 2006)

I would put limniphollia mini there. it is a small stem plant that does not exceed 4 inches tall if you give it adequate lighting. It is the stem plant ground cover in my 90P in the front middle.


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

whooo hoo i got for (real this time) some E. Vivipara that im gonna put there 

HAZZA!!!!

thanks for all the suggestions guys


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

ok so if some of you remember i was battling a wicked algae outbreak.
i ordered a new aqua medic 150 hqi MH 6500k 
as soon as i changed out lights within 3 days the algae started to fall apart
i had to remove the back right corner of Echolaris Belem cause it was a total loss to the algae
then i went out and got 3 new toothbrush like brushes one is stainless steel bristles
one is super hard plastic
and the other one is brass bristles
i brushed every inch of wood to decimate algae

NOW I HAVE WON THE BATTLE OF THE ALGAE!!!!

now for the pics( these were not photoshopped) please excuse the reflection fo the blinds.
the red cherry shrimp that were in here i started with about 20. then about 10-15 died.

then.... one of them reproduced like 2 times and i have like 30-40 shrimp woo hoo

Enjoy


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## gwclark (May 10, 2010)

Absolutely beautiful. Thanks for sharing.


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

thanks clark i cant wait to see your set up when you get it running

too bad you broke teh first 10 gallon tank

Thanks


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## gwclark (May 10, 2010)

doubleott05 said:


> ...too bad you broke teh first 10 gallon tank.


I always say you have to pay for your education one way or the other. Thanks heavens it was only a $15 tank. The second one took MUCH longer to drill, but was successful.


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## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

Looking much nicer now, very clean. But i must say, i kinda liked the algae growing on the rock. Does that white rock leach out carbonates? I always get algae covering high carbonate content rocks (i use them to feed my African cichlids, they clean it in a blink).

Hmmm did the shrimp died from the Excel?

Also, I notice the Hydrocotyle Verticillata pretty much stalled... emersed it grows like an absolute weed. But under water its so slow, and yet it doesnt die. Funny little plant. Maybe with your new light you'll get a few new umbrellas......


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

ya flea you said it.... the hydrocotyle total stalled it has been like 3 months and i have 1 super tiny new umbrella. 

oh no it wasnt from the excel that the shrimp died it was prob from my inexperience with shrimp. 

and about the rock... well i donno. i think its inert but i could be wrong. 

thanks f1ea


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## WeedCali (Mar 6, 2010)

Looks really good. although i think you should paint the background black.


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

well if i had plants with color i prob would but i have noticed that i prefer white backgrounds on tanks that have all green.

thanks Weedcali


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

update:

i added some knock off ADA Do!Aqua Lily pipes
oh i added a piece of wood to the left side but when the moss grows out you wont be able to tell that theres more than once peice there. 
i got some BBA showing face but thats ok because in about 3 days i got some Excel coming in the mail to destroy it.

check out my mod for shrimp. i got some loufa netting and (shower fluffy things with net)

I NEED SOME E. VIVIPARA SO SOMEBODY HOOK ME UP!!!!


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## fank (May 31, 2010)

This is one of the nicest nano tanks i have ever seen.
good job


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## ddavila06 (Jan 31, 2009)

i don't like the new piece of wood you added, sorry. lol but i really hope the algea-EDIT, THE MOSS, NOT ALGEA- will cover that well, is an amazing yet very simple (at least you make it look like simple to do) setting!


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

wow thanks Fank

thanks ddavila06. it may look simple but in the beginning i had the wood floating up and ruining the scape. then i had to start all over. there was an epic algae battle that i just won. and now im missing the final plant..... E Vivipara.... i really need some of that.

thanks everybody


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

woo hoo and just tonight i found out i have beaten the BBA also. i was doing a water change and noticed that the BBA was a little off color and then i rubbed it with my finger and it just popped off.. 
[email protected]!!!!!

game over .... i win!!!!


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## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

Wow you did beat your algae well. The tank is sparkling clean now! Glosso looks great.

The ONLY thing i dont like is that there's only 1 rock. Such a landscape (in nature) would always have a couple more smaller 'outcrops' of the same stone; so for some reason i see it incomplete and heavy to the left, compared to the image i have in my head...


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

well flea you point out where you would like to see more stones and ill see if i can pull it off. 

i was gonna put more i just couldent find anyting i liked anywhere

just copy the image and put some circles on it and then repost please. 

infact everybody can jump in on this one if they want. 

thanks


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## Garuf (Mar 23, 2008)

vivipara gets really messy and is annoying to maintain, I'd go for cyprus helfri over it every time. Lovely tank.


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

thanks Garuf

well i actually did consider helfri but for this size tank i think that vivipara would give a better depth perception since it has small leaves.


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## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

doubleott05 said:


> well flea you point out where you would like to see more stones and ill see if i can pull it off.
> 
> i was gonna put more i just couldent find anyting i liked anywhere
> 
> ...


Hmmm, maybe something like this?

The new rocks dont have to be too big. Just something to let known that rocks are part of the natural scape and bring some weight away from the bigger part of the stump and the existing rock. You can also use some moss or riccia to cover part of the existing rock and take away some of its weight.

Just an opinion...


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

f1ea;543640
You can also use some moss or riccia to cover part of the existing rock and take away some of its weight.
[/QUOTE said:


> i knew somebody would say that. I have moss tied to the wood root that is climbing over that big rock so when it grows out it will soften up that rock a bit.
> 
> and ill see if i have some rocks in the garage that can fit in there today when i get off work.


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## joshvito (Apr 6, 2009)

great little tank;
how long is your photoperiod?


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

thanks man its been since changed. but the photoperiod is 10hrs a day of 150 hqi 6500k mh.


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