# Green Water - Again- I'm at a loss



## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

We'll start with good news - GDA hasn't reappeared. Bad news, green water has appeared. It started 2 weeks ago, out of nowhere. So, wanting to get a jump on it, I did a 3-day blackout. Crystal clear water after that. Four or five days later, started coming back.

Yesterday's testing:
pH 6.6 
kh 5.5
nitrate 10
phos 1.5
ammonia 0

I typically dose 1/2 tsp CSM+B 3x/wk, 1/2 tsp K2SO4 3x/wk, and dose KNO3 and KH2PO4 to get levels of 20-30ppm and 1-2ppm respectively. Pressurized CO2 at about 4b/s, 130wt of CF lighting is on 10hrs, with another 260wt CF lighting on for 9hrs (starts 30min after first set, ends 30mins before first set). Tank is a standard 120gal, 4ft x 2ft x 2ft. I use the 50 micron version of  these  in my HOB filter, and it seems to do a pretty decent job. When I clean them, they (recently) have had a slightly green color and smelled like algae. So it seems to be filtering some of the algae out.

Previous threads indicated that increased ammonia levels are to blame, but all fish are accounted for and I've done no recent changes.

Obvious solutions are UV sterilizer or diatom filter. I'm looking to see if anyone can give insight into a reason behind why this is occurring so that the issue can be fixed at the source.

TIA


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## redstrat (Apr 3, 2006)

a long intense photo period could be to blame, you could shorten the most intese lighting period to a 4-7hr mid-day burst. Just a thought. The WPG rule kinda changes for large tanks like yours, what woudl be 3wpg in a 60g tank could be the equivilant of 2wpg in a 120g like yours. so your 3.25wpg could be roughly the equivilant of 4wpg for an average sized tank. The numbers I gave were rough estimates so please don't use them as a guide I was just trying to get the point across. You might even want to shorten the total photoperiod to 10hrs or less.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

In my experience, once you get green water it is very hard to get rid of. You may think it is gone for a few days and then it comes right back, generally triggered by some change. It was never really gone at that point, you just could not see it.

I agree about the lighting schedule. I would reduce the burst to a shorter period of 4-6 hours, either having it right in the middle of the photoperiod or pushed a little later in the day. The best method I have found is a UV. Run it for about 3 days, fluffing the plants and stuff a s often as you get the chance. This helps to loosen anything that may be in a dead spot or on the leaves, etc.

How are you checking your NO3 levels? Unless its a high quality test kit, which you should calibrate against a know solution, your just chasing your tail. Is what you add into the tank roughly match an increase in your test reading? How are you dosing, you say to levels of x but what does that really mean? If you test is wrong you may not be adding enough, or way to much. How densly planted is the tank and more importantly, how are the plants growing? As to the original cause, who knows. Temp spike, disturbed substrate, lots of rotting leaves, filter issue, etc can all lead to ammonia spikes. Also, remember that algae and bacteria live in a differnt environment than the fish and plants. What is not enough of a nutrient to bother the fish, or so small the plants cannot readily see it is often way more than enough for the algae. Plants/fish are generally concerned with a ppm range while algae are often happy with a ppb, or a factor of 10 less.

You know the biochem stuff, re-evaluate each little part of your tank, think about what you normally don't. Maybe you'll find why it happened or maybe its a result of random chance, dead snail or contamination from another tank.


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

To add on to Dennis, massive plant trims can cause green water... Happened to me twice.....


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

The lighting schedule hasn't changed in 5 months or more. I shall reduce it though, in the meantime.

I check my levels with these kits:










I haven't done a test solution with known concentration, but readings seem to reflect plant uptake.

I dry dose, adding to the filter so it gets mixed better.

Here's an idea of plant density:

Picture taken about 3-4 wks ago, before this mess started.

Now that you mention and I got to thinking, I did get some plants from a friend, who had an outbreak of GW about a week or two prior to getting the plants. His GW cleared up on its own though...


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## Avalon (Mar 7, 2005)

GW is always an ammonia problem. The thing is, the ammonia doesn't have to be readable on a test kit to cause a problem. It doesn't take much. You mentioned you had a power filter? If you did any maintenance to it, that's probably what did it. They really aren't sufficient for planted tanks and here's why: aquariums will keep an equilibrium of bacteria, some in the filter, some on the plants, substrate, etc. The tank adjusts to the amount of plants that are doing their share of water filtration and the media you've provided (your power filter). If you disturb one or the other, your going to have problems. Add lots of intense light and poof! GW.

Cannister filters help combat small ammonia spikes because they are more efficient. Water can be biologically filtered more efficiently in a single pass than a power filter. Smart aquarists will use 2 cannister filters so one can be cleaned while the other remains working.

You can filter out your GW with your power filter. Perform a huge water change, and pack your filter tightly full of floss. You'll probably need to replace it daily, as well as do large water changes daily. Decrease the light a bit if you can, even if it's just duration. Keep doing this until the GW is filtered out.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Did you do a major plant trim and disturb the substrate? That was the cause of my GW...all the water parameters were normal, otherwise.


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

No major plant trimmings or substrate disturbance for more than several month now. 

I did the same maintenance that I've always done: remove the filter pads, clean them thoroughly, and replace them. The only media that's in the filter are those filter pads (two of them), stretched across plastic frames designed for the white "bio bags" for the whisper filters. I clean them once a week and have done the same procedure for months. That's the only 'filter' I have on the tank, aside from a powerhead on the opposite side of the tank.


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## jon_the_newb (Dec 30, 2006)

If you do consider the route of diatom filter, or UV sterilizer, go for the sterilizer. I'm by no means an expert here, but I have used both of these, and here is my opinion on them. The diatom will get your water crystal clear, in a short time, but, it won't address the problem of what caused the GW bloom. Expect the GW to return soon. 

With the UV sterilizer, it will take more time to clear up the problem, days instead of hours. However, the UV sterilizer can be left running for weeks to months w/o a problem, and this, IMO, is what will kill your GW. It will likely go from GW, to a white water, then slowly get thinner and thinner untill its gone. All the while, new GW is trying to grow, burning off whatever your excess nutrient is, but also getting killed off by the sterilizer at the same time. After a week or two of clear water, turn the UV sterilizer off, and it should stay nice and clear, at least until something happens to throw off the balance again.

Both my tanks have had GW. The UV sterilizer cleared them both, and I have not yet had a return in either (6+ months, and 1 month).

Jon


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

jon_the_newb said:


> If you do consider the route of diatom filter, or UV sterilizer, go for the sterilizer. I'm by no means an expert here, but I have used both of these, and here is my opinion on them. The diatom will get your water crystal clear, in a short time, but, it won't address the problem of what caused the GW bloom. Expect the GW to return soon.
> 
> With the UV sterilizer, it will take more time to clear up the problem, days instead of hours. However, the UV sterilizer can be left running for weeks to months w/o a problem, and this, IMO, is what will kill your GW. It will likely go from GW, to a white water, then slowly get thinner and thinner untill its gone. All the while, new GW is trying to grow, burning off whatever your excess nutrient is, but also getting killed off by the sterilizer at the same time. After a week or two of clear water, turn the UV sterilizer off, and it should stay nice and clear, at least until something happens to throw off the balance again.
> 
> ...


Agreed, finally threw in the towel and went the same route. Has been working.


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

So, if I were to get a UV sterilizer, then can someone recommend and brand and a wattage for my tank?

I did a 50% WC last night, and wrapped my tank. It will be for 5 days this time. I figure I'll do a 50% WC when the blackout is done, to help clear up dead algae.


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## Avalon (Mar 7, 2005)

The Coralife 18x Turbo-twist is a good one. I have one for my 100g and I like it. It's on sale right now at Big Al's for $110.


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

I used the Coralife 9x on my 50gallon very successfully. I will say one thing though, don't try to use the reduces that come with the Coralife, instead just use 5/8 tubing. I found the reducers always leaked a little, even with the runner gaskets correctly in place.


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

dennis said:


> I used the Coralife 9x on my 50gallon very successfully. I will say one thing though, don't try to use the reduces that come with the Coralife, instead just use 5/8 tubing. I found the reducers always leaked a little, even with the runner gaskets correctly in place.


I agree. Worked on my 40g.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

I agree with what Avalan said about the unreadable nh3 levels. Remember even dead plant leaves will cause Nh3. It doesn't take much especially in a very high light tank like yours. There is simply almost no room for error. When I mean error I don't mean a big mistake on your part, but rather the tank would have to be optimized with an extremely thick tight growing plant load (which it's not), it would have to have low fish mass (which it doesn't). I know it's a big tank, but trying to find a balance in any tank is tough. To do that one would have to have almost no fish in a very large tank with alot of plants. As mentioned the UV is a great tool. I run the 9watt coralife on my 72g 24/7 and have found no downside to doing this.


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

I appreciate the info so far.


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

5 day blackout complete. Water is crystal clear.

From earlier today:


Most of the plants came out ok. Alternanthera suffered a little bit, lost alot of leaves, and had to be trimmed/replanted. Melon sword also lost a lot of leaves.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Glad to see it worked. 

Stupid blackouts never worked for me. Problem always came back...diatom filter fixed it.


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

I'm battling this same issue, but it's not really really green, anyways I was wondering, Green water they say that it's caused by excess nutrience, (ammonia i think?) What if i were to put some Biomax rings in my cannister. Would this help to pull some of the excess nutrience in the tank out, and maybe even the initial cycle to take place? I mean idk where this nutrience is comming from. i have a 55Gal NPT, soil under layer with SMS as the top.


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## redstrat (Apr 3, 2006)

evercl92 said:


> 5 day blackout complete. Water is crystal clear.
> 
> From earlier today:
> 
> ...


One thing I notice looking at your tank is many of the plants are considered slow-moderate growers(or heavy root feeders), they won't uptake nutrients as quick as some fast growing stems, maybe you should consider adding some to help with the excess nutrients in the water, if I were to suggest one wisteria would be high on the list. This may help you find the balance Houseofcards is refering too... this combined with everything else your doing should help prevent another bloom, if you want to keep your high light. You could probably cut the lighting intensity way back if you want to stick with the same plants. just a thought


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

I do agree davis, I have floating plants with long roots, (bigger version of duckweed) 

I have:
Spiky moss
Java Moss
Ludwigia arcuata
Ludwigia palustris
Ludwigia repens
Bacopa monnieri(I think)
I'm planning to pick up some Cambomba aquatica as well.


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

davis.1841 said:


> many of the plants are considered slow-moderate growers(or heavy root feeders)


Very true. And I've considered that as a possible reason why this has started. I used to have plants like bacopa caroliniana, ludwigia repens, some rotala specie. I've slowly replaced them with plants that were tougher to grow and ones I liked better. Maybe I screwed my self on this one.

I won't do the wisteria thing, that was too much of a mess. I do have stargrass right now, and it's doing fantastic. The alternanthera seems to be growing quite well as well. Many I'll pick up some fast growers from work tomorrow...


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

If anyone is still watching this...

Test results today:
nitrate was 0
pH 6.4
KH 4
phos 1.0

I added 3.5 tsp KNO3 and 1/2 tsp of CSM+B. Water is looking clearer, but still a little cloudy. UV sterilizer should arrive tomorrow.


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