# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Peat Effects



## Ger (May 5, 2004)

I've had my 45 set up and planted for a few weeks now, and right away began tolerating something I had not anticipated. As it turns out, the Scotts Potting Soil I used contains peat. I was more concerned about added phosphates (After reading about all of the props everyone's been giving the Miracle Grow line (relatively loaded with the stuff from what I could tell) I wonder if I chose poorly.)

Anyway, the water looks like a cup of weak tea. The light (2x96 PC) seems to be significantly diffused for the lower plants -- cabomba raced to the top with a couple of inches between nodes. The plants ARE growing, rather well. Algae is at a minimum, confined to a minor presence amongst the floaters -- watersprite, pennywort, moneywort, and a couple of stems of cabomba which uprooted early on and are doing surprisingly well for themselves.

Is this staining due to the fact that I may not have put enough gravel on top of the soil, or would the tannins have leached out anyway? I used maybe only a half inch, but realized my gaffe only after the tank got filled. So rather than re-plant everything, I'm hoping someone has a peat saturated tank and is willing to share how they lived with or rectified it. I've already done a 50% water change on the fourth day the tank was up, but am hesitant to do another as I don't want to remove the nutrients from the water.

Also, I was originally planning on putting a bunch of neon rainbows (M. praecox) and silver hatchetfish, but wonder how their colors would display in such tannic water. Would tetras' and rasboras' colors be more evident?

Thanks,

-- Gerry


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## Ger (May 5, 2004)

I've had my 45 set up and planted for a few weeks now, and right away began tolerating something I had not anticipated. As it turns out, the Scotts Potting Soil I used contains peat. I was more concerned about added phosphates (After reading about all of the props everyone's been giving the Miracle Grow line (relatively loaded with the stuff from what I could tell) I wonder if I chose poorly.)

Anyway, the water looks like a cup of weak tea. The light (2x96 PC) seems to be significantly diffused for the lower plants -- cabomba raced to the top with a couple of inches between nodes. The plants ARE growing, rather well. Algae is at a minimum, confined to a minor presence amongst the floaters -- watersprite, pennywort, moneywort, and a couple of stems of cabomba which uprooted early on and are doing surprisingly well for themselves.

Is this staining due to the fact that I may not have put enough gravel on top of the soil, or would the tannins have leached out anyway? I used maybe only a half inch, but realized my gaffe only after the tank got filled. So rather than re-plant everything, I'm hoping someone has a peat saturated tank and is willing to share how they lived with or rectified it. I've already done a 50% water change on the fourth day the tank was up, but am hesitant to do another as I don't want to remove the nutrients from the water.

Also, I was originally planning on putting a bunch of neon rainbows (M. praecox) and silver hatchetfish, but wonder how their colors would display in such tannic water. Would tetras' and rasboras' colors be more evident?

Thanks,

-- Gerry


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## Nillo (Jun 11, 2005)

My water always looks like weak tea, and I actually like it. I keep various tetras and IME they show their colors better in water with alot of DOC's. Also, if I am not mistaken, the dissolved organics help protect the fish from heavy metals. Besides, I have rarely seen water in the wild that is as "white" (I say white instead of clear because my water is extremely clear but tea colored) as most people try to strive for in their tanks.


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## Wally (Aug 31, 2003)

Carbon will easily take the color out, however it is quite natural for water to look like that. If you go to the amazon or anyother place where our aquarium fish re native you will find water is very dark and stained


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## Ger (May 5, 2004)

Thanks for the feedback. I'm happy to live with my tea, I was more concerned with my implementation, so when I set up the next natural system I'll know whether or not to expect the same results. 

I've seen a few other threads lately concerning water discoloration and the use of activated carbon filtration in order to alleviate it. This seems a little contradictory to me in a low-tech setup as the DOCs which the activated carbon will remove provide CO2 and nutrients (in addition to the neutralization of heavy metals' effects). Is it too extreme for me to feel that activated carbon is a BIG no-no except for a severe case of toxins or algae in the aquarium?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Dear Ger,

You can get the "tannin effect" by driftwood in the tank, so its not just from soil.

I don't see carbon as a big no-no (I argued against it in my book to counterweigh ALL the artificial, wallet-depleting stuff going on in the aquarium hobby).

Carbon may have a modest effect, either good (removes light-inhibiting and allelopathic tannins) or bad (removes iron chelators, CO2 source, etc). It's hard to predict what will happen, because every aquarium is different.

Note that this tannin release from the soil will probably decrease with time. I've never seen much of it in my tanks. I'd probably slip a little carbon into the filter if I did.









Experimentation is good.


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## imported_Lori (Mar 6, 2004)

Have had my (soil/pea gravel) tank up for a month and a half and it is now finally turning less tea colored. Took about a month. I would have never noticed it except for the flourite based tank in the kitchen has super clear (white) water.
Zebra Danios dig it.
Ottos dig it.
No worries,


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## imported_chrismisc (Jul 25, 2004)

Hi there, 
I am a new member as of today, and have been hanging out, waiting for a topic with which I actually have experience, so here goes. I'll applogize in advance if I'm long-winded, untimely in my replies, or or am a forum-dunce (also my first forum!). I too have found that the tea color does not detract from the display of brightly colored fishes. I run Fluval granular peat in my canister to soften the local water, which averages 8.0 pH out if the tap. On average it seems to soften about 0.3-0.4 if Î change my little baggies of 3/4 Cup granules every two weeks--alternating. Personally, I think the greens of plants and reds of fish such as neons/cardinals, etc stand out against the tea-water, And visibility is not negatively affected, though personel at my LFS have quesioned the degree of light penetration in blackwater-like conditions.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Welcome to the wonderful world of forums, Chris,
and to this one in particular.

A lot of people think that the slight darkening of the water caused by peat filtration adds to the beauty of an aquarium. I am one of those. But a lot don't. This is one of the characteristics of forums, a good exchange of opinions.

Good luck!

Bill


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## imported_chrismisc (Jul 25, 2004)

Thank you, Billpers!

I'm making a conscious effort not to bog evyone down with all my "Oh, me too!" experiences if I don't have anything further to really add. 

I started using peat to soften the local water, like I said, but since switching in the last 6 mos. or so to just RO water plus Kent RO Right, I've still kept with the peat in high hopes of one day keeping discus--for the color and for that pH 0.3 softening effect. I've been trying to practice a pretty strict (for me) regimen of water changes, cleaning and tests to see if I really am up to the task/investment! 

If anyone has any words of wisdom, hints for beginners, caveats, or other advice regarding discus-keeping (I was thinking of adding two silver dollar-size ones to my current set-up), please send it may way. Also, what experince does anyone think of RO Right or 100% RO water? I'm visualizing little "Yikes!"-thought bubbles out there.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I've talked to Discus keepers and their main problem seems to be disease... flukes than come with the fish, bacterial infections from eating bloodworms. Discus are highly bred (artificial) and don't have a lot of natural immunity.

No one has ever written to me about peat causing a problem. I would be far more worried about Discus having diseases or getting diseases than peat effects. 

R.O. water is fine if you have extremely hardwater and need to soften it a little. Tannins released from peat will neutralize heavy metals. However, a good water conditioner can do the same thing. There's a lot of leeway. One Arizona aquarium shopowner set up a planted tank (based on my methods) with potting soil and hardwater. He raved about how healthy the fish were with the plants.

I'd focus your energies on getting healthy fish and minimizing disease exposure.


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## imported_chrismisc (Jul 25, 2004)

Thanks for the advice. I guess if you start with sub-par stock from the get-go, all subsequent efforts might suffer? I guess if you are a proponent of the lowtech approach (checked out the Diana Walstad gallery today, and spendid is not a stong-enough word), then having a UV sterilizer is not something you'd reccommend? I've glanced at them, and some articles I've read seem to advocate them as a requirement, but it goes back to your pint of starting out with stong, solid stock.

I guess I'm fuzzy on when it stops being being a tangent, and starts being a whole new topic! I think I've crossed that line now. I'll make a concerted effort to stick to the topic.

Thank you again.

Chris S.


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## Ger (May 5, 2004)

chrismisc touched on something here that I've noticed more in my setup as time has passed -- light penetration. As I've changed out water maybe twice in as many months, the water gets clearer, and the plants grow better/denser/faster. Now, what sort of plants grow in true blackwater ecosystems? And for the peat inclined, what types of plants are you able to succesfully grow, and what intensity of lighting do you use? Are you limited to lower-light plants? If growing higher light ones, how do you control algae within the top-most 3 inches of water depth? (or more to the point, what would you recommend I do to keep the recurring mess of hair algae I get only within the upper 3 inches at bay).


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## imported_chrismisc (Jul 25, 2004)

As far as plants I've been able to grow in peat-treated water, I have all kinds of things growing as a result of some months of experimentation (I switched from the Eclipse 3 hood lighting to the Custom SeaLife about 6 or 8 months ago; So, from 36wpg to 3.14! Boy, did I have algea for weeks since I swithced abruptly). My experimentation has been more a frenzy of sale items or never-before seen species at my LFS than any systematic approach, though I avoided known high-light plants like glossostigma & had no success with rotala macrandra. I've noted no adverse effects on anything since I started really keeping up on my peat changes about 2 months ago.

What's doing very well right now is my baby tears (micranthemoides), Limnobium laevigatum (amazon frogbit), & didiplis diandra. The frogbit is an incredible weed, doubling in size/quantity every week, and creating dense shade. The baby tears grow about half an inch a week, while the d. diandra seems to grow by the day- maybe 4-6" a week.

I should stress that I'm currently running only the 10,000K 65 watt PC that came with the saltwater package on my canopy, and that the 6700K bulb that I traded the incuded actinic for burnt out about two weeks ago (new one's in the mail). I wondered why everything looked so green! The internodes on the bacopa caroliniana are kinda long, but the plant is robust & fast growing FOR ME (maybe 1-2"/wk), keeping the lowest leaves on each stem in spite of its being really packed in a dark corner. I should also note that after an unfortunate seam-rupturing incident, my (new) tank is in a sun room--the only room other that the kitchen without wood floors. It gets pretty strong morning sun from the mostly east-facing windows, and indirect sun all afternoon, so that maybe assuages the lack of my daylight bulb?

I do get algae, but only minute green spot that I leave for my otos, and some hair algae in the frogbit that I only see when I pull some out every week, and this has been cut in half since I started swishing the fish food out of the floating leaves with my fingers after each feeding (feeding ring also in the mail). I also run a phosphate absorber pad in my canister to keep the algae down. since I started doing that, PO4 has never been above 0.25ppm.
I use 2 bags of 3/4 cup Hagen peat granules, alternately switching them out of the canister every two weeks. I think it should really be refreshed every other week at this quantity, but this is the amount I've found to induce softening with the least amount of pH swing in my size tank. That said, it's not enough to have really stong "tea," at least in a 38 G.


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## Mario Velez (Feb 20, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Diana Walstad:
> I've talked to Discus keepers and their main problem seems to be disease... flukes than come with the fish, bacterial infections from eating bloodworms. Discus are highly bred (artificial) and don't have a lot of natural immunity.
> ...


I successfully keep a discuss tank following Ms. Walstad's method with a few modifications. When I replenish the evaporated water I add every 3rd bucket of replenishment water with RO water.

I do not feed my fish with live food I prepare my own beef heart formula and I treat them every so often with tetra flakes as plants food. I give them Hikari blood worms once a week.

I keep them together with a bunch of Cardinals, Corydoras, and Hotosinclus. Every new fish that I get in the tank goes through a quarantine and medication period of at least 3 weeks in a separate tank. I also, disinfect plants by quickly spraying on them a solution of water and bleach. I rinse them and get them in a bath of potassium permanganate solution.

On the one hand, we have the guidelines for purist discus keepers of bare bottom thanks and endless RO water changes. On the other hand, we have Ms. Walstad's method of tanks full of mud and no water changes. Personally, I can tell you that the idea of no water changes it really freaks me up, but it's just a matter of trying it and using some common sense.

What I have explained so far is only valid for keeping the discus healthy and happy. Breading them must be a quite different issue, which I hope Ms. Walstand will experiment on and address in a near future.

As a rule of thumb I have to be very meticulous with what I introduce to the tank to avoid diseases.

Main challenge for me it's around the corner since I will move to another house in two weeks. Hopefully with the advice obtained in this forum it will be a successful one

Kind Regards
Mario Velez


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