# What a planted tank really is.



## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

An Aquatic Plant Scrubber.

This is the first time that phrase has ever been used in this hobby. An Aquatic Plant Scrubber works based on the same principle of an Algae Scrubber. If you don't exactly know what and Algae Scrubber is look here:

http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1291-Algae-Scrubber-Basics-The-Summary

Basically no matter how amazing is your biofilter AND your mechanical filter your system will accumulate Nitrates and Phosphates. If you find a way to grow algae (or plants) at an astonishing rate they will consume the N and P. You can jack up the light or the micros, or the feeding and no other algae will grow. If it manages to show up you can easily kill it. Easily and very quickly - a single water change, a little less light, a few days without fish food. That sort of basic, lame stuff. No Excel, no blackouts, no home-chemist playing with ratios of fertilizers.

"Santa Monica" is a guy that posted on APC back in 2008 pushing his idea of an Algae Scrubber on the planted tank community. His posts were not even taken seriously because we know better. We have our fertilizers, and our 2 "methods" of running a planted tank, right? To grow algae that will eat our precious fertilizers was viewed as the dumbest idea ever. We can look at ADA's tanks with owe but we never grasp what is the super simple principle they are using to create ultra clean tanks. Well - the tank is an Aquatic Plant Scrubber.

So, if you balance your tank at a point where the aquatic plants become the "scrubber" you will have an exceptionally clean tank. Yes, we all knew that. But the prevalent practices are different. I write about that because the last few weeks I witnessed the amazing transformation of an Estimative Index tank to a completely clean system in which even glass stays completely clean. All it took was a severe reduction in N and P dosing. The plants LOVED IT! 2 days ago I trimmed 2 handfuls of leaves. Growth was astonishing despite the severely limited fertilization. And the discus pair in that tank laid eggs for the first time. Now they hang in the middle and front of the tank instead of hiding to the side.

So this is it: Nothing new really - clean water in which algae just can't make it. Looking at your plants is actually looking at your best filter. Feeding of the plants through the substrate COUPLED WITH minimal water fertilization. Your own Aquatic Plant Scrubber.


----------



## Yo-han (Oct 15, 2010)

When I read the title, my first thought was: a bucket of water where we put money in! I've never kept discus myself but I bred angelfish (F1 manacapuru), shrimp and otocinclus in a EI tank so I've became more and more sceptical. My Corydoras sterbai lay eggs every week although they get eaten before hatching and I had fry from my Nannacara anomala and Apistogramma nijsseni multiple times in the same tank. Mostly after big water changes (after which I added lots of NPK) so your water changes could be the trigger for spawning as well...


----------



## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Ok, the water changes could make the discus spawn. But I always change the exact same amount of water and always on the same day. Been doing that for 7 years now, rarely missing a week. This is the first time these fish spawn.

The only thing that is different in this tank now is the severely reduced fertilzation. Why do the plants take over, the algae disappears, the discus lay eggs, the other fish are much more lively? 2 year old bulbs - yes, sir. It makes little sense as usual. The substrate of that tank is plain old Fluorite - think of the phrase "nothing useful" except the accumulated mulm. So this old mulm that failed to feed the plants when I was dosing good amounts of everything is now doing something new?

Bottom line is - *algae will have no chance if the plants suck up everything good from the water*. An "Aquatic Plant Scrubber" as I called it. But *algae will always have a chance if there is excess of food in the water, despite well growing plants* (can't manage to "scrub" the water). That's the common sense of it all. Let the plants run the show. Not you, not your LED lights, not your fertilizer calculator.

None of this is new or amazing.


----------



## flwrbed (Jul 3, 2009)

I got real busy for about 6 months and my 75 gal planted tank got very little attention. i did same old water changes but i stopped fertilizing all together. The co2 and the lights stayed the same but the plants just took over. I had to prune several times because it just went crazy. Now i have pruned it, rearranged a little and started fertilizing again. Still wonderful growth but i would agree with the scrubbing. The tank never looked so clean. Not a spec of algae and the glass and water was crystal clear. Thanks for the post Niko.


----------



## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

Sounds like a bad infocommercial!


----------



## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

houseofcards said:


> Sounds like a bad infocommercial!


Perhaps, but unlike most infomercials, this is true in my experience. The only time I have significant algae in my Walstad tanks is when they are newly set up. And this holds true for 1 gallon jars up to 90 gallon tanks.


----------



## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

Michael said:


> Perhaps, but unlike most infomercials, this is true in my experience. The only time I have significant algae in my Walstad tanks is when they are newly set up. And this holds true for 1 gallon jars up to 90 gallon tanks.


I don't doubt that, but how do you explain that I have setup countless tanks and have been dosing high-end EI for years without issue to fish and/or algae and for that matter so have thousands of others. There's a large difference between the inorganic salts we add in and organic decay in terms of needing clean water.


----------



## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Yes, there is a lot of bad infomercials in this hobby. Loud, lowbrow, or polished. All of them in your face.

Care to oppose them? What's the point? 

What you see me post is not because of ego, commercial interest, or lack of common sense. I'm pushing for a way to look at this hobby in better ways. What we all do is not the best and we can't deny that.


----------



## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

It's all about lifestyle and choices that work. Whether one is better than the other is a mute point. There's enough evidence either way. ADA is not a lifestyle it's a business. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

I also think this reads like an infomercial because you are not giving any definitives, niko, just abstract magic. Lets take this thread: plants are nutrient export and scrubal filter. This is not news! Walstad, EI, etc have always been proponents of trimming (plant growth as filters) to remove junk from the water column.

I believe the disconnect is that you assume folks are using EI, PPS-Pro, whatever your two methods you diss are as the only part of a system. This is incorrect! Folks are using those bits for the fertilization -- easiest -- bit while thinking more about commercial (ADA)/DIY (Walstad, AaronT style) substrate and lighting (Hoppy/PAR/LED and new technology) and the *system*. Is this a magic claim? I say no, and my backup is a scroll through this year's AGA competition and seeing how often "DIY" and "EI" shows in the fertilization column. (Granted, more folks with small tanks use commercial products. This makes sense! For some folks, making solutions for, say, a 5gal tank just isn't worth, say, 20 minutes of their time vs $20/3 months.)

But I've tried engaging you before. Maybe you got busy. Example: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...ssions/86006-niko-says-high-tech-cant-go.html

Else these broken threads really do read like ads, man. You have started businesses around this stuff. I normally totally support this and wish luck. But these posts often read like preambles before $nikosmagicproduct that you're going to pitch. IF YOU ARE PITCHING A PRODUCT I HOPE YOU QUANTIFY IT AND THEN WISH YOU THE BEST OF LUCK.

All caps and redundancy to not lose the message. Dissing the methods that take an effort to quantify the process by, essentially, contrasting with magic (this thread) is ridiculous. Post pics to support these claims, please. Convince us you're not talking about monoculture, which is a totally different game than the most popular tanks in the hobby.

Love you.


----------



## wet (Nov 24, 2008)

Magic:



> I write about that because the last few weeks I witnessed the amazing transformation of an Estimative Index tank to a completely clean system in which even glass stays completely clean. All it took was a severe reduction in N and P dosing. The plants LOVED IT! 2 days ago I trimmed 2 handfuls of leaves. Growth was astonishing despite the severely limited fertilization. And the discus pair in that tank laid eggs for the first time. Now they hang in the middle and front of the tank instead of hiding to the side.


Magic:



> I write about that because the last few weeks I witnessed the amazing transformation of my aquarium where I had algae and it became a tank with NO ALGAE. All it took was Wet's Magic Fertilizer dosing. The plants loved it. 2 days ago I trimmed 2 handfuls of leaves. Growth was astonishing despite the fertilization. And the discus pair in that tank laid eggs for the first time. Now they hang in the middle and front of the tank instead of hiding to the side and my plants are growing like weeds!!!


What's the difference?


----------



## Flear (Sep 29, 2012)

quickly reading your message niko, plants equals no algae

what kind of plants?, how dense?, a timeline?, what testing?, what pictures?

how are you compairing a "plant scrubber" to anything?
what is being done, how is it being done?
advice oh helping people set it up, specifics that say someone is setting it up right or are they avoiding a part of the system that is needed?

these questions and more

i'm familiar with the details behind a deep sand bed, i've heard lots about what it should take to get one running properly, and heard horror stories from those that failed, they don't divulge what they were skipping or failed to pay attention to that caused it to fail, or even what was going on when it failed, not openly anyway, so it's hard to see what they were doing wrong vs what went wrong.

your talking about a plant scrubber and giving no specifics, ... yes it's an infomercial, your not advertising something other than a promise and not divulging how to set it up properly. your not talking about what steps in setting it up are critical. it cannot be replicated because we've no idea what your doing to replicate it.


----------



## farrenator (Dec 21, 2008)

I am not an EI fan boy but I have read Tom Barr state on many occasions that when plants dominate the system, algae loses.


----------



## rjordan393 (Nov 23, 2012)

Back around the year 2000, we called them algae scrubbers and I believe they were introduced first by marine aquarists. Do they work? Yes they do. I did not consider installing one. Now I will try to recall from memory exactly what was involved. But back then, everyone was using a sump where the scrubber was usually installed. All it was is a sheet of plastic which I think was perforated and water was allowed to trickle down on it. A bright light was installed above it. basically thats it.
When I had a 120 gallon reef tank, I controlled NO3 & PO4 by using a separate 10 gallon tank which was fed water from the 120 and gravity sent the water back to the sump. I grew a marine algae called caulapa (if I got the spelling right) and this kept the two nutrients in check.
A cheap aquarium light was used over the 10 gallon.
Now the problem I see with the algae scrubber is that one would have to re-design their under the tank layout, and perhaps install a sump, etc etc. I do not think many would be willing to go through all that trouble. In fact many of us are already using this idea by growing plants on the surface. There should be pictures of algae scrubbers on the net. I believe algae scrubbers were designed for marine tanks only.


----------



## flwrbed (Jul 3, 2009)

I'm probably the low guy on the totem pole here but im not sure i see anything where Niko is selling anything. I read general statements about how plants can "scrub" water. I would tend to agree. 

I think he is saying the tanks itself is an Aquatic Plant Scrubber. Or did i miss something?


----------

