# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Hi-Yield brand stump remover



## tomfromstlouis (Jul 18, 2003)

The only KNO3 I have found locally (without looking TOO hard) is Hi-Yield Stump Remover. The only ingredient mentioned on the canister is potasium nitrate. I calculated once that 2 teaspoons should bring my 75g tank from 0 to my target of 10ppm, but it seems like I need more like 4-8t. I am having trouble keeping NO3 above zero with 3wpg and CO2 at ~15-20ppm. Can it be that this product is diluted with something? It feels a little weird dumping large amounts of this stuff into the tank. Maybe the best thing is to buy one of the brands mentioned that I have read about - Spectracide or Grant's. Can there be that much difference in a chemical product like stump removers?


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## tomfromstlouis (Jul 18, 2003)

The only KNO3 I have found locally (without looking TOO hard) is Hi-Yield Stump Remover. The only ingredient mentioned on the canister is potasium nitrate. I calculated once that 2 teaspoons should bring my 75g tank from 0 to my target of 10ppm, but it seems like I need more like 4-8t. I am having trouble keeping NO3 above zero with 3wpg and CO2 at ~15-20ppm. Can it be that this product is diluted with something? It feels a little weird dumping large amounts of this stuff into the tank. Maybe the best thing is to buy one of the brands mentioned that I have read about - Spectracide or Grant's. Can there be that much difference in a chemical product like stump removers?


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## countrymouse (Jul 6, 2003)

Greenlight is also pure KNO3. You might try calling or emailing the company that produces Hi-Yield; they'd probably be happy to tell you whether there's anything in it that's potentially harmful to your fish.


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

I used Hi-Yield stump remover for years without problems. I'm not using it now just because I ran out of the Hi-Yield and could only find a different brand as a replacement. I dosed 1/4 teaspoon/50 gallons.

2 teaspoons of KN03 in 75 gallons of water should give you 24 ppm of NO3. If your test kit measures nitrate concentrations as nitrate nitrogen then it would measure 5.5 mg/l Nitrate-N.


Roger Miller


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## Rolo (May 12, 2004)

I made a post asking the same thing about Hi-Yield on another forum but never recieved any confirmation that is was 100% KNO3. So Roger, do you know if it is 100%? Were you able to find any documentation?

Tom, Is your stump remover in pellet rather than powder form? (At least the Hi-Yeild I picked up was in pellet form). This is why more teaspoons are needed, because the density is much less then the powdered form. I have been reluctant to use this stuff b/c of the "ploymer?" used to make it into pellets. So no one has observed any negative effects?


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## Rolo (May 12, 2004)

Update: I found the MSDS on Hi-Yield

It isn't completely pure, 95.5-99.2%. It also does not have the same boiling point as pure KNO3. Still safe?


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

There is virtually nothing you can buy sold for general use that is pure. If you want something pure then you need to buy pharmaceutical or reagent grade products. Yes, it is safe.

I'm not sure that a polymer is used to make the beads. There is nothing left after the beads dissolve. Nor do I have any reason to believe that the beads are less dense then a powdered form.

As far as I know, all KNO3 sold as stump remover is in beads.


Roger Miller


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## Rolo (May 12, 2004)

Not all KNO3 is sold as beads. I found another brand sold at home depot under the brand name Bonide; it comes in a fine powder. But, again, I wasn't able to confirm if this was mostly KNO3. By less dense, I was more or less comparing it like marbles to sand, where a bucket of marbles would have gaps of air, that make less KNO3 per the same volume when compared to the powdered form.

If it really isn't a matter of density then, it seems ridiculous that tomfromstlouis had to dose 4-8teaspoons of this into his 75 gallon tank. According to Chuck Calc that would be 48-97ppm! But since its >95% KNO3, the density probably is the best explaination for why so much. Unless his test kits are wrong...do you normally dose that much? 

I read somewhere that polymers are often used to bead these compounds and can be watersoluble - hence why they're not seen. I don't find any safty issues with this however. I'll try dosing it.


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## tomfromstlouis (Jul 18, 2003)

My Hagen test kit gives me mg/L and suggests that to get nitrate as nitrogen I divide by 4.4. So my readings are as ppm which is what I was thinking.

I appreciate everyone's input and Roger, it is nice to know that someone else has used these pellets successfully. Still, I am at a loss to explain the low readings shortly after dosing. I put in 8 moderately heaping teaspoons of Hi Yield yesterday and I read less than 5ppm NO3 today. Could the plants suck it in that fast?The kit is only 1 1/2 years old and has given me variable readings on NO3 and PO4 and Fe ("variable" means it reacts to dosing so it must be working, right?) I was thinking my dosing NO3 would lessen as the 8 angels got to full size anyway.

My real problem is that I do not have a chemistry orientation. Heck, I got a "C" in chemistry even thought the teacher was my water polo coach, if that tells you anything. So even after 18 months I have not gotten into a regimented water change and dosing regime. I change 20-25% every week (sometimes 2 weeks). My hairgrass is nearly gone and new cabomba is not doing well, so some fert is missing.


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## tomfromstlouis (Jul 18, 2003)

WAIT A SECOND! I just reread my last post. If my test kit gives me mg/L, my goal should be something like 2.0, right? But the color chart only gives colors for 5 or 10 which would be 22 or 44 ppm. Am I reading this right? So is my test kit not sensitive enough to give me the lower readings I need to monitor for 10 ppm?

Looks like I am confused between ppm and mg/L...So my dosing 8 teaspoons yesterday gives me a reading under 5 today, but it is 5mg/L which equates to ~20 ppm. Do I need a more sensitive test kit?


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## countrymouse (Jul 6, 2003)

Sounds as though you ought to consider replacing your test kit. Most of us replace them once a year; after a year they're less reliable. 

I use Aquarium Pharmaceuticals tests (and Seachem PO4), and get consistent results with them. Like the price, too.


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## Rolo (May 12, 2004)

I have heard so many problems about nitrate kits of so many brands - hagen, ap, tetra...the only two brands that I have never read a complaint is on Red Sea and Seachem. I have used both flawlessly and highly recommend them.


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Tom,

It isn't the difference between ppm and mg/l that is causing a problem; as long as we're talking about fresh water ppm and mg/l are the same thing. The possible confusion comes up over nitrate concentration or nitrate-nitrogen concentration. If the test kit is scaled to give you values in nitrate-nitrogen then you need to multiply that value by 4.4 to get the concentration of nitrate.

Most of the guidance you get off the net sites nitrate concentrations, but some test kits produce their results as nitrate-nitrogen.

But now I'm confused. I just checked the literature on Hagen's kits. They say the nitrate kit (product number A-7845) is supposed to test up to 110 mg/l. What is the product number on your test kit?


Roger Miller


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## tomfromstlouis (Jul 18, 2003)

I cannot find a product number on my Hagen kit. I bought it from Big Al's 3/03. But the Nitrate brochure clearly states:

"Nitrate (0.0-110.0mg/L) Test" and later: "For nitrate as nitrogen (NO3-N), divide result by 4.4." So it looks like I am getting ppm and mg/L readings.

By the way, I was getting results like this long before this kit was a year old. This may be part of the reason I am not a scientist: frustrating unexpected results do not inspire me to seek new truths. They just frustrate me. 

Thanks everyone. This is my new favorite forum!


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## Rolo (May 12, 2004)

You are still due for a new NO3- test kit. There is no way 8 heaping teaspoons of KN03 in a 75 gallons should only be read as 5ppm(mg/L). It should be >96ppm! IME only Red Sea and Seachem have worked flawlessly.


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