# New setup, algae, melting plants



## patti (Jan 22, 2011)

About 12 days ago I converted my 10 gal tank that contains 2 male ADF's to a Walstad tank. My ADF's are thriving, in fact they're eating more and are more active. My plants, however, aren't doing so well, and I have a lot of algae.

I used 1" of forest soil topped with 1" of the same aquarium gravel that had been in the tank previously. I returned the sponge filter to the tank that I had been using in my previous setup, so with that and the gravel I had a good biological filter already established. But I also previously had a lot of algae and I'm wondering if I made a mistake by using the same gravel and filter sponge.

I removed the sponge filter after a week because the sponge quickly turned nearly black and an incredible amount of debris collected under it. I left the air stone in for surface movement.

I have two 10W fluorescent mini aquarium bulbs in the hood, which I was leaving on 10 hours daily, but have reduced to 8 hours because of the algae.

I bought the 10 plant low light package from Bob's Tropical Plants. I told him I was setting up a Walstad tank, gave him my chemistry readings and asked him to send plants that were compatible. I don't know for sure which plants I received. When I asked, he told me he thought he sent the following:

anacharis, pennywort - floating
2 different kinds of java ferns
2-3 crypts
1 amazon sword
1 dwarf onion

There were also at least 3 snails that hitchhiked along with the plants. One is a red Ramshorn and the other 2 are dark brown with smooth shells. At first I was happy about the snails because I figured they would clean up algae and any food the ADF's didn't eat. Maybe they are doing that but they poop *A LOT*!

Many of the plants aren't doing well. The dwarf onion turned to mush and I had to remove it. The pennywort is slowly dissolving. The java ferns have developed black spots on the leaves. They are getting mushy from the tips down, as are some of the other plants. One plant that I can't identify is dropping leaves.

The only plants that seem happy are the anacharis and the java moss.

I guess my questions are: 
What can I do about the algae? 
Do I need more plants, less light?
Do I need different plants?
Should I remove debris (dead plant parts, uneaten ADF food and shed skin, snail poop)?

I can provide photos if needed.

Thanks,
Patti

2 male DAFs, Otis and Baby
10 gallon tank
Lighting: 2 10W fluorescent bulbs in hood
Temp: 76 degrees F.
Ammonia: 0
PH: 9
Total Alkalinity: 720
Total Hardness: 75
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 10


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Hi, Patti,

I have several comments.

Light is the most important "nutrient" that you can give your plants. Two WPG might be adequate light or it might not be, depending on the kind of bulb. Two 10 watt bulbs on a 10 gallon tank does equal 2 WPG, but that isn't a lot of light. Try doubling it. Note that smaller tanks require more WPG with most bulbs to grow most plants, and large tanks, relatively less.

"Forest soil" could be anything. Perhaps what you are using does not have enough nutrients, or maybe it has some other things in it that hurt plants, like herbicides. Most people use the cheapest, unimproved potting soil that they can buy. Some but not all soak it for a few days, changing water, to rid it of ammonia and other undesirables. Diana recommends Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting Mix. She doesn't soak it beforehand.

The fact that the sponge filter turned black in a short time suggests that something is leaching from the substrate.

A 2 inch deep substrate is too much in a tank that size. That's not causing your present problems, but it could later.

Reusing the gravel and the sponge filter are good things to do, unless of course they were contaminated. Snails are also good, in moderation.

The algae is growing because the plants aren't healthy. You are probably helping it by overfeeding. One should never have to remove uneaten food from the bottom of the tank.

PH within a normal range doesn't have much effect on most plants. However, a pH of 9.0 is far outside that range. Is the water from your faucet pH 9.0? if not, there is something in your aquarium that is dissolving and needs to be removed. If it is, you should replace half of the water in the tank with distilled or demineralized water. You can get that at your food market.

Plants: Mosses, Java ferns, and many crypts grow well in low light tanks but it takes a while for them to get established. Anacharis, swords, and onion plants seem to need moderate to bright 
light. Newly set up tanks need fast growing plants to prevent algae. Hygrofila is one; hornwort is another.

It's a good idea to research plants before you buy any. APC has a very good section that you can go to by clicking of "Plant Finder".

I hope this has helped you a little. Keep at it, and soon you will have a healthy planted tank that you will be happy with.

Please keep us informed.

Bill


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

I also see the KH and pH as a problem here. While plants can handle a wide range of KH and pH, yours is outside the range that most plants can handle. 

I would work on lowering the KH, and the pH ought to drop as the KH comes down. 

What are the test results out of the tap? Does your water come to you with that much carbonate? 
Is there something in the tank adding to this? Sea shells, coral sand, limestone gravel or other stuff? 

If there is something in the tank, remove it. 
It the tap water is just like this, then dilute the tap water with Reverse Osmosis or distilled water as suggested by Bill. 
Make the change slowly, so the frogs can adjust. Perhaps drop the KH by about 50 ppm each water change, and do 2 water changes per week until the KH is closer to 150 ppm and see what the pH is doing then. 

You will need to keep on doing water changes with a blend of mostly distilled or RO and a little but of tap water so that you are not adding too much carbonate back to the tank. You might try a blend of about 25% tap water and 75% RO or distilled. See what the KH and pH are when you make that sort of recipe.


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## patti (Jan 22, 2011)

Thanks Diana and Bill.

The water right out of my tap has the same readings as I'm getting in my tank so I will definitely try diluting the tap water with Reverse Osmosis or distilled water.

Should R/O and distilled water be treated for chlorine/chloramine removal?

I do have driftwood and 3 small oyster shells in the tank, but the readings haven't changed since I added them. Should I remove them anyway?



> A 2 inch deep substrate is too much in a tank that size. That's not causing your present problems, but it could later.


Please explain?

Thanks,
Patti


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

You don't have to treat R/O and distilled water for chlorine and chloramine. They are remove in the conversion process.

With the hard water that you have, you don't need to add more calcium from the oyster shells. Remove them. Plus, there aren't any fresh water oysters that I know of. 

The driftwood will slowly rot and that will help to lower pH, so it is OK in your tank.

Too deep substrates are bad because they develop anaerobic areas and kill plant roots. They can also produce harmful gasses.

Good luck!

Bill


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## patti (Jan 22, 2011)

Bill,

My water is actually very soft (75 ppm) which is why I added the oyster shells.



> You'll need a water hardness (GH) of greater than 7d. To raise GH you can add coral gravel or clean sea shells and let them slowly dissolve - quoted from http://theaquariumwiki.com/Walstad


I'm confused as to why a 2" substrate is too deep. Everything I've read has recommended 1" of soil covered with 1" of gravel, which is what I have. How can that be a problem?


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## penfold (Dec 7, 2010)

The problem is that you have a very high KH (alkalinity) paired with a relatively low GH. I don't think that calcium carbonate (the oyster shells) will dissolve in your current water as the high KH will reduce its solubility. I would do water changes with pure water as was suggested. As the KH and GH come down, the calcium carbonate should become more soluble, and will begin to raise the KH and GH equally. With enough water changes, the KH and GH should reach a more balanced ratio.

As for the substrate, I think 2" should be fine. I think I have around 2-3" and my plants seem healthy so far.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Woops! I misread your total hardness as 750 PPM, similar to the KH. But there are better ways to add calcium than via oyster shells. The aquarium could also be short of other minerals, such as potassium, iron, and manganese, among others.

I'll stick with my comment about the depth of the substrate. Others might differ. That's fine.

As you learn more about aquatic plant husbandry, you will find that there are often several contrasting opinions on many issues. That can be frustrating, but in this hobby some people have success in doing something one way and others have success doing it in another way. Thats just the way the substrate bubbles. 

Lots of luck!

Bill



patti said:


> Bill,
> 
> My water is actually very soft (75 ppm) which is why I added the oyster shells.
> 
> I'm confused as to why a 2" substrate is too deep. Everything I've read has recommended 1" of soil covered with 1" of gravel, which is what I have. How can that be a problem?


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## 1aqumfish (Jul 28, 2008)

When you took the PH reading for your tap water did you let it sit for an hour or so? The 1" + 1" of substrate is fine if you have rooting plans in it. My water is similar to yours but not that extreme. Try crypts, also when you get plants that were growing in different water conditions than yours they mope for awhile maybe melt but often come back. You will find some plants will love your conditions.


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## patti (Jan 22, 2011)

Thanks to all who have offered advice. At this point I have not yet replaced any water in my tank with RO water, but have been topping off with it as water evaporates. The PH and KH have dropped slightly, but not enough, and the GH is still 75ppm.

1aqumfish: Yes, I did let the tap water sit for an hour before testing it.

After reading this thread I ordered some CaCl2 from a brewery supply and am planning to dose with CaCl2 and Mg as Diana Walstad recommends in the thread.

However, my plants *are* doing better. Whether that is due to the RO water I've been adding or due to them adjusting to my water, I don't know.

I'll post the results after I dose w/ CaCl2 and Mg. I need to get a new test kit first.

Thanks,
Patti


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