# Why I Find WhiteCloud Minnows So Facinating



## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

Just about every fish in the aquarium trade has a natural counterpart that exists in the wild, eventhough the fish sold in the pet store was raised and bred in captivity. Interstingly the White Cloud is extinct in nature. I guess that is why I find them so fascinating besides the fact that they are so hardy.

Soruce:http://www.wetpetz.com/whitecloud.htm
*"Apparently never particularly common in its natural habitat, they are believed to be extinct in wild due to pollution and change in their habitat through deforestation, agriculture, and urban encroachment." *

It is a crying shame to see how human activity can lead to this kind of stuff time and time again.


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## tropism (Jul 21, 2006)

Homer_Simpson said:


> Interstingly the White Cloud is extinct in nature. ... It is a crying shame to see how human activity can lead to this kind of stuff time and time again.


Agreed. 
Hopefully at some point in the future, as China continues to grow and evolve, they will be able to restore their natural habitat to some degree and reintroduce them to the wild from the stock that fish breeders keep. I sincerely hope that that is not *just* wishful thinking.


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## tkos (Oct 30, 2006)

Cherry Barbs are in the same boat. Pretty much lost in the wild and kept going by the aquarium trade.

White Clouds are awsome and hardy pets. Watch them flare against each other, its great.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

I came across this which kind of relates to all of this. Unbelievable!!!
Source: http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=923

"More fish driven to extinction
Cichlids, trout, barbs, sharks, rays and cyprinids join 16,000 other species on the road to extinction, according to the latest tally.

The World Conservation Union's IUCN 2006 Red List, which was released this week, provides a list of the world's rarest organisms and publishes details on their conservation status so scientists and governments can use the data to aid the protection of the species.

Several fish species have been classified as extinct in the 2006 Red List, with two rare middle eastern cichlids, a trout and four cyprinids making up the numbers.

In most cases, extinctions have been caused by habitat destruction and the addition of non-native species to the environment.

New extinctions

Acanthobrama hulensis
This cyprinid fish, described by Goran, Fishelson and Trewavas in 1973, is sometimes considered a member of the Mirogrex genus and was endemic to the Hula lake and adjacent swaps in Israel. The swamps were drained between 1950 and 1970 which led to the species being restricted to a very small part of the Hula nature reserve. Unfortunately, the nature reserve switched its water supply and the fish was driven to extinction. It hasn't been recorded there since 1975 and is now officially considered extinct.

Tristamella intermedia
This rare tilapiine cichlid was also to endemic to Lake Hula in Israel, and has been driven to extinction for the same reasons as Acanthobrama hulensis.

Tristamella magdalenae
Tristamella magdalenae is another rare tilapiine cichlid from the middle east and was described from fish collected in the 1950s. The species has not been found since and is therefore presumed to be extinct.

Telestes ukliva
Sometimes considered to be a member of the Leuciscus genus, this cyprinid fish from Turkey hasn't been seen since 1988. Surveys have been undertaken to locate the fish but no specimens were found and experts believe that there are no waters nearby that could harbour the fish, so it must now be considered extinct.

Salmo pallaryi
This trout from Morocco is so rare that it hasn't been seen since the 1930s. It's population is believed to have declined due to competition with introduced common carp. It's so rare than only two specimens are present in the world's museum collections. It's now officially extinct.

Chrondrostoma scodrense
C. scodrense, a cyprinid from Albania, was last listed by the IUCN back in 1996 as being criticially endangered. Despite surveys in the 80s and 90s, and as recently as a few years ago, the fish could not be found in the wild. The last officially recorded specimens may not have been seen since the original nine specimens were caught 100 years ago and described in 1987 by Elvira.

Barbus microbarbis
This rare barb, which reaches a size of just under 30cm/12" in length, comes from Rwanda in East Africa. Despite regular surveys of Lake Luhondo, where it was previously found, it hasn't been rediscovered for fifty years and now is officially listed as extinct. Introduced haplochromine cichlids and Tilapia added to Lake Luhondo for food are believed to be responsible for its demise.

Alburnus akili
The small bream-like cyprinid was endemic to Turkey's Lake Beyeshir but overfishing and predation by introduced pikeperch saw its population there plummet. It hasn't been since 1998 and is now considered to be extinct.

Other additions

Carcharhinus longimanus
The Oceanic whitetip shark, Carcharhinus longimanus, is one of the most widespread species of elasmobranch fish but fishing pressures mean that it is becoming rarer. The 2006 IUCN redlist determines the species as vulnerable.

Squatina squatina
The Angel shark, Squatina squatina, was previously considered vulnerable in the 2004 redlist, but benthic trawl fishing, set nets and longlines mean that its abundance has dropped dramatically. It's been uplisted to critically endangered in the 2006 redlist. This is just one step away from extinct.

Manta birostris
The Manta ray, Manta birostris, is used in Chinese medicine and has become so heavily fished in recent years, along with other members of the Mobilidae family, that the ray is become much more scarce. It's classed as near threatened in the latest redlist.

Telestes polylepis
Known only from a small stream in Croatia, measuring just 1km by 2km, this rare cyprinid, sometimes referred to as a Leuciscus species, is becoming even rarer due to habitat degradation, water extraction and competition from introduced species of trout. This fish is now classed as critically endangered, the highest vulnerability status below extinction.

Acanthobrama telavivensis
This bream from Israel has been under threat for some time following a population crash that started in the 1950s. Drought in 1999 saw the species all but disappear, but captive breeding of some of the remaining specimens has allowed the fish to be restocked at two places in Israel, but it appears that neither of these populations has bred, so the species is now classed as extinct in the wild.

The last IUCN Red List, published in 2004, was dominated by the ichthyofauna of Madagascar. Dozens of threatened rainbowfishes, killifish and cichlids from the island of Madagascar were added to the list in 2004, as well as a number of new marine species, ranging from groupers to gobies."


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Cherry barbs are listed as "vulnerable" on the IUCN Red List, one level better than 'endangered."

White Cloud Mountain Fish have become extirpated only in the area in which they were discovered. Wild populations still exist in other parts of China and southeast Asia, as well as self-sustaining, introduced populations in Australia and Colombia, among other places. They are not on the Red List.

I guess that's good news.

Bill


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

We're also doing a good job of driving the Crucian Carp (_Carassius carassius_) to extinction over here. Lots of lakes have introduced goldfish, either intentionally, or by stocking brown goldfish after being sold them as Crucians when they weren't. They then hybridise with the native species. Finding pure bred Crucians is getting very hard.


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## devoneli (Nov 10, 2007)

Not to stir the pot...but don't you think the aquarium trade itself plays a part in fish becoming endangered or extinct?


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## mikenas102 (Feb 8, 2006)

devoneli said:


> Not to stir the pot...but don't you think the aquarium trade itself plays a part in fish becoming endangered or extinct?


Absolutely! Take the Microrasbora Galaxy aka Celestial Pearl Danio for example.


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## tropism (Jul 21, 2006)

Most definitely. I think that's the main reason that certain fish (zebra plecos for instance) have been banned for export from their native countries.

BUT, from what I understand, that's not the case with White Clouds. They're really easy to breed, and for many years all of the stock has come from fish breeders. (Why go out trying to collect a few when you can breed them by the thousands?) Their main problems are pollution and loss of habitat. In general, people in the aquarium fish trade have become more aware of their impact on ecosystems than they used to be, and in many cases they try to breed the fish if it's status in the wild is in doubt.

FWIW, they *are* breeding the Celestial Pearl Danio in captivity now too. I assume that they're still collecting from the wild though.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Since the introduction of the Celestial Pearl Danio (Galaxy Rasbora) there have been numerous reports that it is becoming threatened in its native habitat. Most of these seem to have originated on the internet. To the best of my knowledge, these reports have been based on nothing but rumor without any evidence to supoprt the claim. No scientist is currenlty supporting this viewpoint.

Page 92 of the July 2007 issue of Tropical Fish Hobbyist addresses this. They make the statement that there is no evidence to support the impending demise of this fish. Prices of the fish are falling, not climbing, as would be expected if supply was dwindling. The adult fish spawn almost daily and raising the fry isn't that difficult.

I don't mean to claim that the hobby hasn't affected certain species, but making factually incorrect claims does more harm than good. There are enough things to feel guilty about without inventing new ones.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

devoneli said:


> Not to stir the pot...but don't you think the aquarium trade itself plays a part in fish becoming endangered or extinct?


"Plays a part in" covers a lot of territory. But habitat loss is almost always the main reason that a species declines. There are very few instances in which consumption (capturing for resale, fishing, or hunting) has led to a decline in a species.

In fact, there is a school of thought that holds that placing a commercial value on a wild animal or fish is the best thing that could happen to it. The assumption is that if something has value it will be used wisely.

One such organization is Project Piaba (http://finarama.com/projectpiaba/) whose slogan is, 'Buy a fish, save a tree." Another is the respected cold water habitat conservation group, Trout Unlimited, which advocates that people ask for wild Atlantic salmon, as opposed to farmed fish, for the same reason. http://www.tu.org/site/c.kkLRJ7MSKtH/b.3022897/k.BF82/Home.htm

So by buying those fish, you might encouraging people to take care of them so that they will have a crop next year.

Bill


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