# Your call on commercial fertilisers



## stew (May 7, 2012)

Yet again (after researching lighting) I am confused and bewildered at the complexity of a fishy subject.
How about I just buy a commercial brand of fertiliser and just dose as per the instructions? If that's ok, which one?


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## nilocg (Sep 14, 2010)

There is absolutely no problem using store bought fertilizer. The reason many people use dry ferts is because you can customize the dosing amounts not to mention dry ferts are a ton cheaper.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi stew,

Actually, according to a Washington State Department of Agriculture study started in 1997 and continuing today many commercial fertilizers contain heavy metals such as arsenic, cadmium, cobalt, lead, nickel, selenium, and others. Some products have these metals in very high concentrations. This includes some of Scott's Miracle Grow products, the maker of Osmocote. Heavy metals are known cancer causing agents and/or are known to cause health issues in humans.

For me, I will stick with 'pure' chemicals such as potassium nitrate and potassium phosphate. It may cost me a little more but I value the fish and shrimp I keep too much to add heavy metals into my aquariums.


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## nilocg (Sep 14, 2010)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi stew,
> 
> Actually, according to a Washington State Department of Agriculture study started in 1997 and continuing today many commercial fertilizers contain heavy metals such as arsenic, cadmium, cobalt, lead, nickel, selenium, and others. Some products have these metals in very high concentrations. This includes some of Scott's Miracle Grow products, the maker of Osmocote. Heavy metals are known cancer causing agents and/or are known to cause health issues in humans.
> 
> For me, I will stick with 'pure' chemicals such as potassium nitrate and potassium phosphate. It may cost me a little more but I value the fish and shrimp I keep too much to add heavy metals into my aquariums.


Maybe I misunderstood what he meant, I was thinking that he was referring to fertilizers such as seachem flourish or the rootmedic line.


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## TarantulaGuy (Apr 15, 2009)

I always recommend going the dry fertilizer route. For a variety of reasons; not only is it typically cheaper than buying bottled ferts over the long run, you can tailor the fert cocktail specifically towards your tank. Plus, (and IMHO the most important reason) making them yourself and figuring out the best ratios promotes understanding of your tank and the way it runs, and it promotes knowledge of how plants take up nutrients. The more you know about the way your plant's and tank functions, the more you can appreciate it, and the more pride you can take in it. I think simply dumping in pre-made ferts promotes a level of ignorance about your tank that can cause problems down the road. And besides, who doesn't like to learn something new in a hobby? That's what it's all about


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## stew (May 7, 2012)

What about using the idea of using the juice from manure (either neat just the stuff that ouzzes out), or mashing it with water. I can't help thinking natural is best!


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

stew said:


> What about using the idea of using the juice from manure (either neat just the stuff that ouzzes out), or mashing it with water. I can't help thinking natural is best!


Would you want your fish swimming around in manure water? I sure wouldn't.


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## Sjb1987 (Aug 2, 2011)

i think the smell would be too much for me..plus you dont know if it would cause an ammonia spike either...


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

I have seen posts that suggest you can use worm castings when you are setting up the tank, under the substrate. Not too much. 
Other than that, animal manures are not a good idea in an aquarium. 

Since worms eat a lot of dirt and this passes right through them, worm castings are pretty dilute sources of nutrients.


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## TheFoleys (Aug 28, 2012)

stew said:


> What about using the idea of using the juice from manure (either neat just the stuff that ouzzes out), or mashing it with water. I can't help thinking natural is best!


You should try this and post the vid!
How had you planed on obtaining the manure?
Pets, farm animals, 5 gallon pale with tp?


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## TheFoleys (Aug 28, 2012)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi stew,
> 
> Actually, according to a Washington State Department of Agriculture study started in 1997 and continuing today many commercial fertilizers contain heavy metals such as arsenic, cadmium, cobalt, lead, nickel, selenium, and others. Some products have these metals in very high concentrations. This includes some of Scott's Miracle Grow products, the maker of Osmocote. Heavy metals are known cancer causing agents and/or are known to cause health issues in humans.
> 
> For me, I will stick with 'pure' chemicals such as potassium nitrate and potassium phosphate. It may cost me a little more but I value the fish and shrimp I keep too much to add heavy metals into my aquariums.


Thank you for this post......
I have used commercial none hobby ferts mixed/diluted to where I wanted them before with no growth algae issues. Even recently when I forgot to order more dry. The risk of contamination of chemicals not listed on the box never occurred to me. Could build up over time. Hmmm ng


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## Skizhx (Oct 12, 2010)

Even with basic chemistry knowledge, dry ferts can seem pretty daunting and confusing to someone who's never done it.

Having gone through that myself at first, I assure you that things are MUCH simpler once you get your hands on it and start doing it yourself, and you'll soon realize why everyone recommends it.

You could use commercial ferts like seachem, there's absolutely nothing wrong with those fertilizers. In fact, they're pretty much the exact same thing, just mixed with water and stored in a nifty bottle.

Which is why everyone says don't use them... It's the same thing, except most of what's in the bottle is just water, and the markup is ridiculous, so you're just throwing money away for the most expensive water you'll ever buy, that you wont even get to drink. The cost difference is pretty significant...

If commercial ferts cost the same as dry ferts (for the amount of actual nutrients) then I'd be willing to bet that nobody would care about dry ferts, and commercial ferts would be preferred just because their fert concentration was more consistent and precisely measured.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

I have a friend that used his own urine as fertiliser in his tank years ago. I am not kidding. It was a failure unfortunately because it led to algae bloom. I still made fun of him till today regarding his experiment. 

You may try manure in your tank if you don't mind your friends making fun of you...hahaha. I am pretty sure that the outcome will be worse that my friend's urine.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi All,

I'm going to share some of my experience on this subject. First let me say that I do dose 'Dry Ferts'. I dose KNO3 and KH2PO4 in dry form. I also dose CSM+B [now Plantex Nutritrace CSM (Chelated Secondary Micronutrient)] and 7% chelated iron which I buy dry and mix into solution for more accurate dosing. Why? Dry ferts are more economical for macro nutrients and some micro nutrients.

That said, I also dose Seachem Flourish Comprehensive. Why? Because CSM+B doesn't have all of the micro nutrients that I want to provide to my plants.

These are the ingredients of CSM+B
Iron 7.0% 
Magnesium 1.50%
Zinc 0.4%
Copper 0.1%
Molybdenum 0.6%
Manganese 2.0%
Boron 0.8%

This is the guaranteed analysis for Flourish Comprehensive
Total Nitrogen 0.07%
Available Phosphate ( P2O5) 0.01%
Soluble Potash 0.37%
Calcium (Ca) 0.14%
Magnesium (Mg) 0.11%
Sulfur (S) 0.2773%
Boron (B) 0.009%
Chlorine (Cl) 1.15%
Cobalt (Co) 0.0004%
Copper (Cu) 0.0001%
Iron (Fe) 0.32%
Manganese (Mn) 0.0118%
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0009%
Sodium (Na) 0.13%
Zinc (Zn) 0.0007%

Obviously there are a lot more micro nutrients in Flourish than CSM+B but I don't augment my EI dosing for that reason. The reason I dose Flourish a couple of times a week is when I was using just CSM+B as my sole micro nutrient source my plants would periodically show signs of deficiencies - now I don't have that problem.


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## Aquaticfan (Oct 30, 2011)

How about differing stuff between Millers Microplex and CSM+b? I know they have some differences.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Aquaticfan,

Here you go!

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilizing/79663-dry-trace-fertilizers.html


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## Aquaticfan (Oct 30, 2011)

Hey Seattle. That's what i thought. I use the csm+b and supplement some millers micro for the additional stuff it provides. I noticed some good changes when I started doing this. 

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

These are the ingredients of CSM+B
Iron 7.0%
Magnesium 1.50%
Zinc 0.4%
Copper 0.1%
Molybdenum 0.6%
Manganese 2.0%
Boron 0.8%

This is the guaranteed analysis for Flourish Comprehensive
Total Nitrogen 0.07%
Available Phosphate ( P2O5) 0.01%
Soluble Potash 0.37%
Calcium (Ca) 0.14%
Magnesium (Mg) 0.11%
Sulfur (S) 0.2773%
Boron (B) 0.009%
Chlorine (Cl) 1.15%
Cobalt (Co) 0.0004%
Copper (Cu) 0.0001%
Iron (Fe) 0.32%
Manganese (Mn) 0.0118%
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0009%
Sodium (Na) 0.13%
Zinc (Zn) 0.0007%

I dose with CSM+B and some other things. 
Here are the differences and how I address them:
Nitrogen: Fish food, KNO3
Phosphate ( P2O5): Fish food, KH2PO4 (Not the same as PO5- which do plants use? few minutes later... Plants use the PO4 form)
Potash: K2SO4
Calcium (Ca): GH of my tap water is about 4-5 German degrees of hardness, has Ca. The GH does not drop between water changes. 
Magnesium (Mg): GH of my tap water is about 4-5 German degrees of hardness, has Mg. The GH does not drop between water changes. 
Sulfur (S): K2SO4
Boron (B): CSM+B
Chlorine (Cl): Which form do plants use? Is chloramine in tap water a source, once Dechlor has done its thing? 
Cobalt (Co): No source, unless fish food has this. 
Copper (Cu): CSM+B
Iron (Fe): CSM+B and chelated iron.
Manganese (Mn): CSM+B
Molybdenum (Mo): CSM+B
Sodium (Na): I add baking soda to tanks with substrates that remove KH. This is not all my tanks, though. Maybe some of the tanks are missing this? I do not think this is one of the requires elements. 
Zinc (Zn): CSM+B


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## OTPT (Sep 27, 2010)

Diana K said:


> Chlorine (Cl): Which form do plants use? Is chloramine in tap water a source, once Dechlor has done its thing?


"Chlorine, or more correctly the chloride ion (Cl-), is classified as micronutrient"
http://www.crcnetbase.com/doi/abs/10.1201/9781420075113.ch14

To supply Cl-, they use KCl. So the chloramine is a source, too.


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## bosmahe1 (May 14, 2005)

totziens said:


> I have a friend that used his own urine as fertiliser in his tank years ago. I am not kidding. It was a failure unfortunately because it led to algae bloom. I still made fun of him till today regarding his experiment.
> 
> You may try manure in your tank if you don't mind your friends making fun of you...hahaha. I am pretty sure that the outcome will be worse that my friend's urine.


Too bad it didn't work because, all you would need is a stool.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Instead of a boy/angel statue urinating, you'll have a real man urinating into the tank? :rofl:


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