# [Wet Thumb Forum]-About to order my filter equipment



## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

Just wanted everyone opinion before I order. I'm ordering "alot" in one shot to save some money on shipping costs. Not everything is listed as some items are unrelated to the topic.

This is for a heavily planted 125 gallon setup.

I already have a heating unit(Fireplug) and a water pump(Velocity S1)

I am using Pentair Aquatics (Rainbow Lifegard) Filters.
I plan on getting the two following items:

1)  AF-94 Mechanical Module(Double). The Double capacity module comes with micron cartridges. What does this mean? Should I order replacements for the future (to save on shipping costs).

2) AF-93 Chemical Module(Double). The current plan is to use Eheim Ehfisubstrat(sinthered glass) in this unit's chamber. Any opinions on this. I was also considering FilStar Ceramic Rings. Is there any reason to get one of these over the other?

Should I get a second Chemical module and use a different media? I was going to leave this as a possible future upgraded, but if there is a good reason to get it now, I'll order two of them (maybe one Single and one DOuble capacity) to save on shipping costs.

Kind of an ubrubt ending to the post, but I'm a bit busy at work. I'm sure this wsill evolve into a conversation of sorts.
------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/kfh227- go there and see my future fish section to see what I have planned for my next 100+ gallon tank.
Note: I havn't maintained the site lately.


----------



## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

Just wanted everyone opinion before I order. I'm ordering "alot" in one shot to save some money on shipping costs. Not everything is listed as some items are unrelated to the topic.

This is for a heavily planted 125 gallon setup.

I already have a heating unit(Fireplug) and a water pump(Velocity S1)

I am using Pentair Aquatics (Rainbow Lifegard) Filters.
I plan on getting the two following items:

1)  AF-94 Mechanical Module(Double). The Double capacity module comes with micron cartridges. What does this mean? Should I order replacements for the future (to save on shipping costs).

2) AF-93 Chemical Module(Double). The current plan is to use Eheim Ehfisubstrat(sinthered glass) in this unit's chamber. Any opinions on this. I was also considering FilStar Ceramic Rings. Is there any reason to get one of these over the other?

Should I get a second Chemical module and use a different media? I was going to leave this as a possible future upgraded, but if there is a good reason to get it now, I'll order two of them (maybe one Single and one DOuble capacity) to save on shipping costs.

Kind of an ubrubt ending to the post, but I'm a bit busy at work. I'm sure this wsill evolve into a conversation of sorts.
------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/kfh227- go there and see my future fish section to see what I have planned for my next 100+ gallon tank.
Note: I havn't maintained the site lately.


----------



## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Have you taken into consideration the head pressure these filters will add onto your pump?

As far as the mechanical module goes, yes it looks like you will need some replacement cartrages. Take into consideration how much leaf debris you will be getting down into this filter, I would venture to guess a micron cartrage will get very plugged very fast with leaf debris reaching it. You will defanately want a prefilter mechanism of some sort. Micro filters are usually reserved for water polishing rather then mechanical filtration.

The Chemical module looks to be plenty big enough taking into consideration how many plants you want to have. Also consider the Rena Biochem Stars over the ceramic rings as they have much more surface area. 20 stars will handle 100gallons of bioload. Consider EfhiSubstrat Pro, again it is more efficient then the plain substrat. 

I don't think you need another chemical module


----------



## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

From briefly looking at Ehfisubstrat Pro, I think I'll take your advice.

I'll also get some extra mechanical filter cartridges per your advice.

As far as head pressure goes, I havn't really looked into it much. I was assuming that everything would be fine. Well, any advice you can give would be appreciated.

And thanks for all the help and advice.
Karl

------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/kfh227- go there and see my future fish section to see what I have planned for my next 100+ gallon tank.
Note: I havn't maintained the site lately.


----------



## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

What I am talking about head pressure wise, is how much restriction the modules will place on your pump. Take into consideration every length of pipe, elbow, module, ect, and calculate it into your head pressure. If you put too much load on your pump, you might not even get water up to your tank!. Not to mention too much head pressure will fry a pump much earlier than it should have gone.

I would look into 2 pumps for your use. One pump for circulation, with a T for the reactor, and another for the mechanical chemical and heating modules. That will limit head pressure per pump, and allow you to service your tank/filters, while still maintaining circulation and the C02 levels.


----------



## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

Splitting hte CO2 and the heating/filtrtion into individual loops isn't a bad idea. I think for the time being though, I'm going to use one loop. If it doesn't work out, I can always add a second pump.

I don't think too much head pressure is an issue, but there might be too little. I saw a calculator at the krib, but it wasn't working when I DLed it. Actually, an Excel worksheet.

NOTE:
I'm using four bulkheads in the floor of the tank for heater/filtration/CO2. Two intakes, two ouputs. I might put a T after the filtration/heating and only have one outlet get injected with CO2.

THanks for the help. I hope to order parts today. At worst, I'll have to add another pump at a later date. Fortunately, the mechanical filter section has a gauge that measures head pressure for me









I will be looking at my design prior to ordering, and the ideas will be in the back of my head, so they still might be used.

Karl

------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/kfh227- go there and see my future fish section to see what I have planned for my next 100+ gallon tank.
Note: I havn't maintained the site lately.


----------



## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Ithink that little gauge on the mechanical module actually measures PSI in the module. It's more of a indicator to tell you when the unit is getting clogged. As the media becomes dirty, the water will back up, thereby increasing the pressure inside the unit. When it is clean it should read 0.

What does your pump do GPH and what is max head?


----------



## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

I think the reason that the psi meter is on the mechanical module is because it's the first item afte rhte pump. To measure clogging, it is essentially measuring the pressure between the pump and hte filter before any filtration actually occurs. So, it should in turn be measuring hte actual head pressure.

I'll try to get the pump specs posted ASAP.

------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/kfh227- go there and see my future fish section to see what I have planned for my next 100+ gallon tank.
Note: I havn't maintained the site lately.


----------



## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

540 [email protected] 3' head

extra info:
" Dry Run Cutout" with thermal switch 
rated for line pressures to 50 psi

------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/kfh227- go there and see my future fish section to see what I have planned for my next 100+ gallon tank.
Note: I havn't maintained the site lately.


----------



## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

More data:
[email protected]' head

EDIT:
I couldn't find any data for max head.

------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/kfh227- go there and see my future fish section to see what I have planned for my next 100+ gallon tank.
Note: I havn't maintained the site lately.


----------



## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Head pressure is a measure of the maximum water pressure on the head in which it can still pump water. So basically hieght to which the pump can push water. If your pump has a 24'+ head that is pretty good! 

Your right, about what the PSI gauge is telling you. How much back pressure the module is creating. I think you might just be confused about what head pressure actually is.

I have seen a Little giant MDX-3 not be able to push water 11' high because of a unrestricted T off at line 7'.


----------



## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

So head pressure is a measure of distance, not psi? That's confusing









Since my setup is a closed loop, I essentially have to pump the water 0' vertically. All resistance is due to CO2, filtration and plumbing. Should be interesting. Thankfully, I have some valves in the system, so adding more restriction (to slow the flow rate) is fairly simple. Yes, there are other ways to do this though









I'm hoping for (knock on wood) a flow rate of 350-450 gph when all the plumbing is in. At 450 gph, that's about 7.5 gallons per minute though. A fairly scary number. Is this a common rate?

I plan on using 1" ID tubing throughout. The problem is that alot of the individual units have I/O diameters of 3/4".

------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/kfh227- go there and see my future fish section to see what I have planned for my next 100+ gallon tank.
Note: I havn't maintained the site lately.


----------



## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Adaptors will make up for any piping sizes, no worries. Horizontal piping does not offer much restriction, but I have no experiance with the modules your using. 

The system I am building has 3 pumps. One for the UV sterilizer, one for the C02 reactor, and finally the third for circulation.

I chose to do it this way, because I love overkill. What better way to maximize water flow efficiency then dedicating pumps to each individual accesory!


----------



## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

O you have to pump water vertically at some point, unless your pump is at the same level as the water level in your tank. Since I am assuming your pump is under your tank, that is head pressure.


----------



## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

I love overkill too. The stand I built is like a tank(the kind you drive)!

Well, I supppose the pump is going to actually be pumping water up.

I'd do multiple pumps, but I'm being anal about noise and I want to keep the cost down as much as possible. With a little luck, the componenets I've selected should make the tank nearly silent.

The Velocity S1 is supposed to be very quiet according to what I've heard. Some say the quietest.

I bought some silencer cooling fans to cool the lights. I already ran them. WOW! Silent is right.

Also, got my lighting from AHSupply, so no buzzing lights to worry about.

I don't know why I just listed that sutff. Oh well.

Since I have 4 total bulkheads, re-arranging the system to use two pumps would be a piece of cake







The plumbing would be unique, but it's already in my head









Thanks for all the help.

Karl

------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/kfh227- go there and see my future fish section to see what I have planned for my next 100+ gallon tank.
Note: I havn't maintained the site lately.


----------



## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Yes your pump will be dead quiet. I have worked with a system involving two T3;s and it was dead quite. EXCEPT!!!!! they moved so much water you could not silence the water movement. The pumps were awesome though. I think I recomended the Velocity to you in another thread.

I am Re-building my new system, I am not happy without a sump! Damn my Marine tanks.


----------



## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

Ya, several people recomended the velocity series (probably including yourself). When I saw one up for sale at aquabid for $50, I jumped on it. I wanted the S2, but when I saw the S1 available for $50.....

The seller said it was only used for several months. I forget if there was a reason for selling. I should have it some time next week.

You're probably right about the noise from water moving. All plumbing is going to be in my stand, so if it gets noisy, I've already thought about the possiblity of insulating the stand to absorb the noise. I'm hoping I don't have to take that step though. I'm going to use larger PVC and tubing whenever possible. Right now, I'm going to try and use 1" PVC throughout. I might up that to 1 1/4" That extra 1/4" means alot in cross sectional area. 1" over 3/4" just about doubles cross sectional area.

------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/kfh227- go there and see my future fish section to see what I have planned for my next 100+ gallon tank.
Note: I havn't maintained the site lately.


----------



## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Almost no one uses 1-1/4". As a matter of fact, I have only used it once to make durso standpipes because 1-1/2" would not fit. That was not the point though.

What I was going to say was on plumbing to the tank, you don't want to go bigger than 1", as the extra volume on the pipe will defanately cause loss of power. If your pump has 1" input and 3/4" output work with that size throughout your system.

On one system the customer wanted 3/4" used to plumb all his accesories and input to the tank, but was concerned that using 1" return to the sump was not big enough, and worried about overflowing (this was an external overflow). Despite my reccomendation that 1" would be sufficient he insisted on 1-1/2". My god did it make a WHOLE lot of noise. Basically what happens is there is not enough water to fill the pipe, so you get tons of air going dow with the water. It sounds like turning the kitchen faucet on till you can hear the water splashing around in the drain and actually hear the noise of the water going down the drain comming from down in the drain. Hard to explain but go experiment with it. Compared to plugging the sink getting it half full, then unpluging it. That would be silent.


----------



## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Oh about water movement I meant in the tank. The outputs were only 2 1" with about Ohhhh say 600gph comming from each, in a 265g tank. It sounded like shooting a garden hose into a bucket or a pool or something.


----------



## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

I think we are confusing eachother.



> quote:
> 
> I have worked with a system involving two T3;s and it was dead quite. EXCEPT!!!!! they moved so much water you could not silence the water movement.


When you say silence the water movement, do you mean the noise of water going through the 1" pipes or the water as it flows into the tank?

In short, I don't have overflows. James tank best illustrates the concept of what I'm doing. Here's the pic:
















The tall pipe is an overflow. The other two are I/O. He has one input and one output bulkhead. I'm just using 2 input and 2 output bulkheads. So the water "pouring" back into the tank isn't a possibilty. So, the noise source I'm concerned with is water going through the pipes. Then again, if my components use 3/4" I/O, then 1" plumbing makes sense to prevent restriction. 1 1/4" might be overkill, but it might reduce the noise of water going through the pipes since the velocity of water going through the pipes will actually be slower.

I'm not that worried about air bubbles in the plumbing since the only way for them to get there is through capilary action. air bubbles can't be introduced from overflows.

Now, I'm starting to type a bit. I'm enjoying the conversation though









Karl

------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/kfh227- go there and see my future fish section to see what I have planned for my next 100+ gallon tank.
Note: I havn't maintained the site lately.


----------



## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Ooooooo your going James style on this one. I get it now. When you said overflows I was thinking more along the traditional lines of one. I don;t think the flow rate you will be pushing will make any noise in the pipes. None at all









If your going to have the bottom of the tank drilled, make sure your getting a custom tank built, because most factory built tanks will have tempered bottoms and cannot be drilled in the bottom.


----------



## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

Ordered one from glasscages.com









Picking it up on July 20th. The day after I get back from my honeymoon. Surprisingly, my fiance is OK with this







It's a 2 hour drive to pick hte tank up.

Thanks for the OK on the 1" PVC. It's good to hear that noise won't be much of an issue.

------------------------------
Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


----------



## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

OOoOo lucky man, custom! If I even look at fish stuff I am in deep do-do, unless we are out shopping. I can't wait to set up my dream system, which it seems your doing now!


----------



## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

Hehehehe,

Ya, the pet store is kind of a sore topic with my fiance. Then again, on two occasions that I dragged my fiance out to the pet store, we came home with a dog. I'm the happy owner of a Japanese Chin (BEST DOG EVER!) and a Cocker Spaniel.

As for the dream tank. Ya, this one is gonna make me happy for some time. It's still kinda scary taking the step from a 30 gallon to a 125. I have alot of confidence in doing this though as I've read alot, and a ton on this fourm. I have a fealing though that down the road, I might start breeding fish. I think SAEs would be my first venture (granted breeding in captivity has only occured in rumors).

Anyways, this is essentially the dream tank. I still have that fantasy tank in my head, but I doubt it will ever see the light of day. My "fantasy tank" weighs in at about 360 gallons(80x36x24). I twould act as a divider between two room to a house which I do not own.







I don't even want to start thinking about the cost associated with it. The 125 I'm doing now is scary enough. I think I'm going to end up about 25% over budget







Once I get this setup tough, I think I'll be happy









Karl

------------------------------
Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


----------



## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Fiance got Dogs, NICE!! Ya I have two dogs too! Both Shiba Inu though, they are a Japanese breed.

Your dream tank will be mint, but your already dreaming about bigger and better before you even have yours setup! Your worse then me!!







I ususally set up a tank, then want to upgrade it, then sell it and buy bigger...

A customer of mine teased my by mentioning he might give me his current tank (680gallons) when we finish his 4000+g shark tank.

That is my Dream tank!!! I will be satisfied when I have my 75G system redone! Might actually look into getting a custom no frame 75G tank and going with MH suspended lights. Tunze just came out with some HQI units that are MINT!! As a side note, they also just released heating cables that are MINT!!! Cheap as hell too! See if you can't budget in around $100 for a set of these cables.


----------



## kherman (Apr 7, 2003)

4000 gallon shark tank !?!?!?!?!

Is this is a private residence? I hope my dreams never get that inflated.

What are the dimensions on the 680 and how do I get into the profession you're in?

As for the heating, I already got that taken care of.

AS for the dream tank ..... It's more of an "If I ever build a new house" dream too. The tank will be planned in. I think the house building may be a reality one day. Hopefully, I can budget in that tank to







Living in CT doesn't help those dream out at all though. Land prces are rediculous.

------------------------------
Karl's Parts And Construction Journal


----------



## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

Yes it's a private residence.

The dimentions are something like 8'x4'34" or something like that. I think I will use it for my Asian Arowana permanent home. I am not in a profession. I am working at an Aquarium Store to put my self through school.

Substrate (Undergravel) heaters are not the same as heaters. Look into them. They create a 2 or 3 degree temp gradient between the substrate and the water, the way it is in nature, it really helps the plants.


----------

