# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Taiwan Style Tonina sp Tank



## neokao (Jul 10, 2003)

I am from Taiwan. Below are some photos of Tonina sp. tanks which are very popular in Taiwan.However, those plants are really diffuclt to find in USA. I just got some from aquabid two days ago. 
http://www.sivanet.idv.tw/dwarfcichlids/bbs3/topic.asp?topic_id=3922&forum_id=18&cat_id=14&show=2

I really wish I could have this kind of aquascape. If you guys need translation, let me know.


----------



## neokao (Jul 10, 2003)

I am from Taiwan. Below are some photos of Tonina sp. tanks which are very popular in Taiwan.However, those plants are really diffuclt to find in USA. I just got some from aquabid two days ago. 
http://www.sivanet.idv.tw/dwarfcichlids/bbs3/topic.asp?topic_id=3922&forum_id=18&cat_id=14&show=2

I really wish I could have this kind of aquascape. If you guys need translation, let me know.


----------



## António Vitor1 (Feb 2, 2003)

what a lovely plant...
impressive.

and yes We would like this page to be translated..


----------



## Doomer (Feb 2, 2003)

Wow, I feel humbled.


----------



## imported_trilinearmipmap (Feb 11, 2003)

Haokan, haokan.

Canadian Aquatic Plant Trading Website


----------



## Slappy (Mar 2, 2003)

Absolutely beautiful. I shall make it a mission to try to get a hold of some Tonina, somehow, someway.

----------------------------
Fish Slapping Extraordinaire


----------



## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

I have some I got off aquabid a few weeks ago. So far it has yet to do much. Do you know of any special requirements for it?

*James Hoftiezer
Hoftiezer.Net - Journals and Libraries
Tank Journal - Aquascape ( Latest / Archive )
Tank Journal - Parts and Construction ( Latest / Archive )*


----------



## Stevenl (Mar 31, 2004)

James,

copied from the link above...

培育太陽草的四大要件:
1.高光量: 
後來發現它對光的要求似乎並不高,因為有些在角落沒有照到什麼光線
的普通太陽反而長的較翠綠!
2.CO2:這是一定要的!
3.弱酸的水質和底床







h值要維持在5.8~6.4之間.
其它都很好克服,唯獨這一點大家最傷腦筋!
4.要施予重肥:定期追加根肥!

The 4 major requirements of the plant are:
1) A lot of light. However the author commented that the plant can also do well under moderate lighting.
2) co2..it's a must
3) acidic water and substrate. pH has to be kept between 5.8~6.4
4) Heavy fertilization. Need to provide regular substrate fertilization

People from a Hong Kong aquaplant forum that I go regularly stressed that you need to have very acidic water to grow this plant...almost 99% of them use ADA's amazonia soil to achieive that...I've always wondered that can this be done by increasing co2 level.










66G tank with 2.7 wpg shoplights, DIY Co2 and 50/50 flourite substrate


----------



## tsunami06 (Feb 6, 2003)

I will raise my hand and say that I'm currently
growing the broad leaved version of this plant
(the one grown by Tropica). It adapted
well to my aquarium and within a week sent
out a multitude of new shoots (many, many of them!). It won't win any track records for
fast, vertical growth though and gets easily
overwhelmed by all the fast growers surrounding
it (umbrosum, diandra, hottonia, ammania, etc).

I think it needs strong direct lighting, CO2,
and a good water column fertilization regime... nothing out of the ordinary. Perhaps my 3 year
old flourite substrate is covering me for
the substrate fertilization.

If you can grow the more challenging plants like Rotala macrandra, Eusteralis stellata, etc this one should be no problem.

Carlos

-------------------------
"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced." -- Van Gogh


----------



## neokao (Jul 10, 2003)

Glad to see so many positive responses. Let me do some summary translation here from that link. Basically, what StevenL wrote is correct. Thank you for the translation








1.Strong lighting (1 Liter water ~= 0.5-1 Watt, Fluorescent lamps are the best for those plants )
2.A lot of CO2 
3.Slight acidic water and substrate (pH=5.8~6.4)
4.High dose of fertilization (Add root tabs everyweek)
----------------------------------
Another critical thing : softwater 
----------------------------------
They also provide some information about the tanks.
Say for the first tank...
Volume: 180 Liter
Maintenance:
Lighting: ADA-903 hood ,32W X 3 Na lamp. Replace all evry nine months
12:00~22:00,10 hours!
Filtration: canister 
JAQNO NEO-701 bottom -> top: Zeolite, ehfisubstrate, ceramic rings,carbon,
coarse pad,fine pad!replace those every year, clean them every month!
Substrate: ADA POWER SAND 3 bags, AQUA SOIL AMAZONIA 9 bags
Thickness 8~10cm!Replace the substrate every year!
CO2:ADA diffuser, one bubble/ second. 
Fertilization:Add Root tabs every month!(depends on the growth of plants)
SERA root tabs,JAQNO root tabs,ADA iron sticks, ADA trace element stick
liquid fertilizer added one hour after the light is on every day, iron : 8 drops,trace elements :5 drops!
sometimes add JAQNO liquid fertilizer: half a cap!
Water changing: 1/2 every week

Condition
Temperature: 25 degree C(NISSO NC-160 water chiller in summer,JAGER 150W heater in winter)
PH: 6.2
KH: 2.5~3.5

-----------------------
Of course, evry body has his own maintenance.
They also mentioned that once those plants adapt to your tank, they will grow really quickly.
Most of them recommend ADA products such as ADA substrate and ADA F. Lamp. However, I could not find any ADA product here in USA.
Enjoy!


----------



## Wheeler (Feb 8, 2004)

You know.... The USA is the most powerful economic force (ahem!) in the world with tons of hobbyists and money to burn. 

WHY CAN'T WE GET THOSE COOL PLANTS UNTILL YEARS AFTER WE LUST FOR THEM FROM SINGAPORE AND JAPAN!! 

Who's responsible?

Also interesting to note are the different Eriocaulon sp. Very cool. 

Great pics, thanks!

Best wishes,
John Wheeler


----------



## Wheeler (Feb 8, 2004)

Just another side note.

We American hobbyists are really far behind. The health of the plants in those pics is much greater than most of us are able to achieve, and the reds are sickeningly vivid. The 3rd or 4th pic down has some Rotalas that I almost didn't recognize they were so red.

It seems that there are a ton of differing products being used over there that are unavailable to us-- Most notably ADA products. This reminds me of what Jeff Senske told us about his fert regimen when we had the TAOPA chat:

He just uses a little of *everything* and his plants are among the nicest I've seen from a US hobbyist. Lots of traces and not alot (some, though) of macros. It appears that the hobbyists on that forum use alot of different, perhaps redundant, products. Just an observation.... 

On the upside, I don't think the layouts were especially good in the posted pics.

Thanks again for posting those pics. I'm headed to Aquarium Center.

Best wishes,
John Wheeler


----------



## tsunami06 (Feb 6, 2003)

Why can't we get those neat Toninas, fine-leaved Ludwigias, and Eriocaulons? 

Because Japanese and European hobbyists are
willing to shell out greater amounts of money
for rare species than American hobbyists. That
is changing though. 

Do not worry, however, most of the species
on that site are already in the US. Even the
red "Rotala" (Ludwigia spec Pantanal).

Carlos

-------------------------
"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced." -- Van Gogh


----------



## Wheeler (Feb 8, 2004)

The worst part is that most of those plants hail from the Americas or the surrounding islands. We should have them 1st, but I suppose Singapore has better facilities to mass produce them. Bummer









Those Toninas are incredible....

Best wishes,
John Wheeler


----------



## neokao (Jul 10, 2003)

Land-wise, California is 11 times of Taiwan. Population-wise, there are 33 million in California vs. 23 million people in Taiwan. Americans have a lot more spaces for the yard, pond, etc. I guess that's why aquascaping is more popular in Taiwan, Japan and Singapore than in USA. However, I agree with Wheeler. "The USA is the most powerful economic force (ahem!) in the world with tons of hobbyists and money to burn." 
The total aquascaping population in USA might be more than any other countries. That's what I don't understand. How come it's so diffucult to get those plants here in USA? Tonina sp. were first imported to Japan from South America by Japanese in 1995. Around 2 years later, it was introduced to Taiwan. Right now, in Taipei, Taiwan, you could buy those plants and ADA products easily in most LFS. I really hope we could have more options for those plants here.
The below is a link for the naming/photo of those cool plants. http://home1.abchood.com/page2users/to/tonina/20032131518599001/index.htm

[This message was edited by neokao on Sun July 13 2003 at 01:26 PM.]


----------



## tsunami06 (Feb 6, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> The total aquascaping population in USA might be more than any other countries


I don't think so. Just look at how many quality
works the Japanese enter into the ADA. It's far
beyond the number of US entries in the AGA
contest (for fair comparison... US's AGA contest vs Japan's ADA contest).

I for one would love to see ADA products here
in the US. However, if you have loads of money
to burn, you can get ADA products from www.aquagoods.com. They ship to the US... just
be ready to empty the wallet.

Carlos

-------------------------
"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced." -- Van Gogh


----------



## neokao (Jul 10, 2003)

Thanks for the ADA information, tsunami06. However, 104-021 Aqua Soil Amazonia - 9l 27.15 + shipping rate (to USA): 112.80 

---
TOTAL: 139.95 
---------------------------------
That's way to much.


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

I think it's a matter of $$ and a whacked out Environmental Protection program. Tropica plants are a perfect example. They're mostly started in sterile tissue culture vats and then transplanted to soil/rockwool. You're not likely to find a cleaner plant, yet we can't get them because of the potting media.

I wouldn't doubt that the US has the greatest number of aquascapers in the world. We've got the $$ and population. However, I think countries like Japan and Taiwan have a greater PERCENTAGE of aquascapers per capita.

Also, with the fight for every inch of space, most of these people only have one or two aquariums and spend an incredible amount of time with them. I believe it's also a matter of personal pride and cultural influence. I know there are Asians who like to keep big tankbusters (Arrowana and Flowerhorn anyone?) but even then I see some modicum of plants in with them. It seems to me that they are more environmentally and aesthetically sensitive and strive to make their aquariums something of beauty as a whole as well as a better home for their fish.

Ok...have to stop in the middle...time to go to school.

"Talk amongst yourselves"..


----------



## neokao (Jul 10, 2003)

FYI....Just found some AKADAMA SOIL (substrate) available in USA.http://www.trappist.net/estore/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BM&Product_Code=AKA-14&Category_Code=soil or http://www.ahouseofbonsai.com/bonsaisoil/bonsaisoil.htm AKADAMA soil is used as the substitution for ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia dedicated to Toninas in Taiwan. Uhh... still pricy here in USA.

[This message was edited by neokao on Sat August 09 2003 at 09:42 PM.]


----------

