# [Wet Thumb Forum]-new aquascape...



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

It's been setup for about 1 month, I still have a few stem plants left in there, but they are coming out slowly. I would like for the moss to cover most of the driftwood but I have a really hard time with moss for some reason!








I really got tired of trimming stem plants 6 to 8 time a month with my last set up in this tank, this one is going to be a little less maintenance! I had the hardest time to get that single balansae... don't ask LOL, but I hope it will spread out some.
Phil's nature aquarium gave me lots of inspiration for this tank, thanks Phil!

I know the pigeon bloods (orange) are really distracting but it's there home for now. I have a few other discus that may also end up in here but the are in a breeding tank for now.

I would also like to make the school of cardinals a little bigger.

All comments are welcome!

Thanks










*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

It's been setup for about 1 month, I still have a few stem plants left in there, but they are coming out slowly. I would like for the moss to cover most of the driftwood but I have a really hard time with moss for some reason!








I really got tired of trimming stem plants 6 to 8 time a month with my last set up in this tank, this one is going to be a little less maintenance! I had the hardest time to get that single balansae... don't ask LOL, but I hope it will spread out some.
Phil's nature aquarium gave me lots of inspiration for this tank, thanks Phil!

I know the pigeon bloods (orange) are really distracting but it's there home for now. I have a few other discus that may also end up in here but the are in a breeding tank for now.

I would also like to make the school of cardinals a little bigger.

All comments are welcome!

Thanks










*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## LaZZ (Jun 2, 2003)

Very nice tank, how did you pull the anubia on the peace of wood? Using some nylon wire?


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Thanks Lazz, 
I used cotton thread for the anubia and moss.

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Ekim,

It looks great! I'm having the same difficulties with moss as you are. What are you doing to your tank? I'm not doing anything different now from what I've done before. Even the temperature ok for moss (No discus yet).


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Thanks Phil, any suggestions? 
It seems like it's missing something to me!
Actually I've never been able to grow moss under high light, but if I toss some in a low light-no fert tank it seems to do great!









*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

That's my problem too. I'm thinking of switching to Riccia instead. I'm going to give it until the end of July to grow. If not..RIP!

Right now I'd just let it grow in and see what happens. That Hygro corymbosa and C. balansae should hit their stride soon and will make a nice background.


----------



## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

That's funny you brought that up, I had not kept java moss for some time but got a nice healthy bunch about a year ago. I added some to one of my low light tanks and the other in my 55 gallon that is my only fast growing setup. Strangely enough I can't seem to get it to thrive, after having ripped out all the darkened pieces (all of it practically) some did remain attached to the wood and is growing slowly but I think some of the fish might be munching on it. Kind of strange however, I used to grow this stuff like weeds with very little effort some years back. I seem to have lost my java thumb









Giancarlo Podio


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

I'm beginning to think that Java Moss doesn't like high light and nutrients. Being a moss I can see how it might like very low light and only occasional or low levels of fertilization. I just put a bunch in a 20 that's getting 1.8 w/g and lower levels of ferts. I'll keep you updated on how it grows.


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

I was also thinking that Phil, but check out Marcin's tank (link below)... high light and nicest moss I ever seen!

I asked him? a few questions at the bottom of his post... I might try switching to KCL!

http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=4006090712&f=5196060812&m=2146062843

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## Tenor1 (Mar 3, 2003)

Beautiful tank Ekim! You've positioned the driftwood simply and beautifully. 

Thanks for sharing,
Carlos

==============================
I try to keep the tank plain and simple but it never stays that way!


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Ekim,

I've got a load of shrimp in my tank. KCl will kill them....I've done it before. I'm going to try using root tabs and cutting down on my water column supplimentation to see if that helps.


----------



## gpodio (Feb 4, 2004)

Yeah I couldn't believe that was java moss in Marcin's tank. I also had java moss in a 10 gallon fry tank with the standard single flourescent light that came with the hood (good bulb), flourite substrate, flourish tabs and no liquid ferts. The moss still did quite poorly. On the other hand I can place a piece of moss in a glass of water and sit it by the window and it will grow. Go figure!

Giancarlo Podio


----------



## Shane A smith (Jun 15, 2003)

Ekim you should post a picture when it grows in! I am excited to see what its like fully grown.


----------



## Ron Nelson (Apr 2, 2003)

Ekim and Phil,
I've noticed the same problems with java moss in my high light tank too. But the clumps of it in my low light (less than 1 wpg) tanks seem to grow great and always look good... Phil keep us posted on what your results are with lower water column suppliments.


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Well, I'm getting noticable growth of both moss and algae. I think part of my problem is that my moss is on the upper sections of my wood, some going right up to the surface, two inches under a 96w PC. I've recently switched to using the Flourish line exclusively on this tank and it seems that the moss prefers the Seachem style Potassium to dry K2SO4.

After a week I can see bright green shoots among the older algae infested dark green. This stuff is just a Trash Magnet! It's too bad it's such a gorgeous plant.


----------



## Ron Nelson (Apr 2, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> This stuff is just a Trash Magnet! It's too bad it's such a gorgeous plant.


Yep... I've been toying with thoughts of running my HOT Magnum with the micron filter and a timer everyday to see if I can get the water cleaner and keep some of it off the moss. Not that my water isn't clear and clean already but who knows...


----------



## rudedog (Feb 6, 2003)

Very nice set up there Ekim - simple but very effective. I must say - I'm totaly with you on the low maintenace approach. 

rd


----------



## Vicki (Jan 31, 2003)

Very lovely, Mike, I like it very much! You know, I generally don't care much for discus in planted tanks, their size, shape and colors generally just don't seem to work, but your pigeon bloods look very natural in your setup. I think it's one of the best planted settings for discus that I've seen--even their colors work well with the warmth of the wood.

http://www.wheelpost.com


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Thank you all for the great comments!









here is a 2 week update,
I actually had 2 different pairs spawn in this tank last week, the eggs only lasted about a day though!

Thanks again

july 8








june 24









*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Mike, you fiend. What are you doing to get your crypts to grow so thickly? Mine are growing densely, but are short and thin, almost like a bullate Saggitaria.

BTW, I like how your plants are growing in. The sag looks great against the glosso. Do you think your floating plant is helping at all with nutrient absorption and algae fighting? Just about every bit of my Java Moss was overtaken by a slimy, nasty algae and I had to remove it, and three of my smaller sticks.


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Hey Phil,
I'm not sure what crypt you see in the pic that has grow much, the one on the left has grow a lot, I think it split into 3 different ones, but It doesn't look much different in the pic to me!

Mulm is all that is in my gravel!

The plant you are calling sag is actually the plant you ID'd for me "Echinodorus bolivianus" the edges of the leaves look like a "saw", maybe you would call it segregated?

I actually have the floating plants in there for some shade for the discus, the do grow pretty fast though!

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Ekim,

I'm very familiar with E. bolivianus, the stuff infested my last aquarium.







Regardless of what it is I like the effect.

How much water column supplimentation are you doing?


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Thanks,
here is my dosing schedule,
4ppm of N from KNO3 twice a week,
4ppm of K from K2SO4 twice a week,
1ppm of P from KH2PO4 twice a week,
10 ml of Flourish twice a week,
6 ml of Flourish Iron twice a week,

total per week, 
8ppm of N,
15ppm of K,
2ppm of P,
20 ml Flourish,
12 ml flourish Iron

66gallon 3 WPG of NO lighting.
How does that compare to yours?

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

40mL Excel every day
10mL Potassium 3x/week
10mL Iron 3x/week
10mL Nitrogen and Phosphorus 2x/week
4mL Flourish 2x/week

I just switched to this regimen a week ago after having dosing issues with my CO2. If I can get everything situated and stabilized with the Flourish line I'll consider going back to PMDD and CO2 gas. Right now, and for the forseeable future, I'm going to be sticking with the liquid.


----------



## Wheeler (Feb 8, 2004)

Phil,

How is it that you can't afford Discus, but you can run through 40ml of Excel everyday?!!

Holy cow









Are you finding that using the complete line of Flourish product makes a difference over dosing dry chemicals? Kinda like the Dupla idea, I guess.

I can't imagine shelling out the kind of bread it's gonna take for you to maintain that regimen, but if it works......

Best wishes,
John Wheeler


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Here you go Phil, it's the bottom pic!

June 24









July 8









Aug. 6 After 2 week vacation.
























I'm hating it!

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## Guest (Aug 6, 2003)

Wow Mike.

Talking about overgrowing the tank. You were right about taking the pictures after the prunning. Tank, althought healthy looking, looks way too overgrown.

Get the scissors Mike


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Yeah Jay, it's pretty nasty!
The glosso took a big hit with no ferts for 12 days!









Any advice? I really dislike it!

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## Guest (Aug 6, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by ekim:
> Any advice? I really dislike it!


Sure







.

I'm usually straight forward with my tips









[*]Keep entire tank in same proportion as before. Wood layout, plants in foreground and midground were perfectly planned out in initial setup. It looked like a small island with great choice of small plants around and bigger accents in the center.

[*]I would rethink the use of _Echinodorus bolivianus _ (?), which I don't belive is that species (max. ~5" high), and replace it with smaller _Echinodorus sp._ to keep initial effect.

[*]Work with center and get healthy bush there and work your way inside -> out.


----------



## Rumpled (Jun 23, 2003)

Ekim Love your tank.

I do have one question though, Are those discus "super reds" and how do you get discus to have a more varied diet. My little fellows will only eat blood worm, they won't touch discus mix or brine shrimp. Got any tips?

Thanks Rumple (aka Paul)

90 gallon, Dupla CO2 injection, Dupla undergravel heater, 240 watts of light and 2 x Eheim pro2 canisters


----------



## tsunami06 (Feb 6, 2003)

Personally, the bright orange discus are not
helping with the composition either. Their
jarring color does not mix well with the 
subdued greens in this tank. I would use wild type discus or altums instead...

Carlos

-------------------------
"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced." -- Van Gogh


----------



## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

I will pull my hair out if the sword plant you send me takes over my whole tank







.

As for moss I have on my wood, they grow really well under highlight in my tank. I think the different variety of moss grow well under different settings. The only problem I have with them is not staying low to the wood. they tend to grow outward instead of crawling along the wood and cover it up.

I am still having issue with the discus staying near the back and under the wood cave.

Rumpled: I read that garlicguard from seachem can help the discus eat other food. You can also just keep feeding the new food until they switch to it from hunger. I never did like those discus mix. Last time I use them, they made the water cloudy once they touch the water. Increasing the water temp also helps too.

Making your own beefheart mix is the best way to go. Even the simplest mix such as: shrimp/beefheart/spirulina flakes is better than bloodworm.

I don't think it has to do with the green plants that make the discus stand out like a sorethumb. The black background makes it look unnatural in some way. The ghost discus is too dark or lack the body color for the background as well. This setup would work better with discus that is at least partially blue color. blue diamond, blue turqiose. red snakeskin.. anything that has a nice shade of blue to it.

5 otto cat does not work well in a 72 gallon.. 1 night and they only clean off a 8x8 area on the glass.

72 Gal, 3 WPG PC 10 hour, pressurize co2 /w controller 1 bps, Fluval 404, ph 6.8
A Canadian's Plant Traders website


----------



## IIIUSION (Jul 19, 2003)

please tell me your lighting levels!!! Those glossos seem to be doing great!!


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Jay,
Yes you are straight forward and that is great!
Thanks for the comments!

Rumpled,
The orange ones are pigeon bloods.
If you stop feeding what they like they will get hungry and eat just about anything, it's hard to not see them eat for a few days though!

tsunami, 
I agree about the bright orange but it's to late now!









Edge,
you said you wanted some plant mass to start up your tank... your gona get it!!
Yeah the ghosts totally changed color when they have a dark background, pigeons also get heavy peppering!

Illusion,
200 watts of NO fluorescent lights!

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

John,

I get all my Seachem stuff free from working where I do. I'd never be able to afford it otherwise.

Mike,

I LIKE the overgrown look. Call me strange, but I think it looks great for your discus. I've got to say though, that's not any kind of Echinodorus...it's got to be a Sag or Val just by looking at the leaf and crown shapes. Not to mention the height of the stuff..









If I had to be the one making the changes I'd pull up those four or five tall runners in the front left and leave it at that. The babies on the right front look great and add a continuity to the overall scheme.

Even so, after looking over your older pictuers and seeing all the other plants you put in there I guess it's kind of destructive to your overall design...









I even like the red PB's in there even if it goes against traditional ideas. The pink of the Hygro brings in just enough of a red/pink hint to pull the fish and plants together.

Now get it cleaned up and updated! With all those fast growing plants you have no excuse!


----------



## Rumpled (Jun 23, 2003)

Thanks Edge and Ekim, will try the tactics and see if hunger works.

Ekim, pigeon bloods, cool as my LFS has ome coming out of quarantine this week will go and have a look.

90 gallon, Dupla CO2 injection, Dupla undergravel heater, 240 watts of light and 2 x Eheim pro2 canisters


----------



## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

How is your tank recovering from the mess? can we see some new pics?









72 Gal, 3 WPG PC 10 hour, pressurize co2 /w controller 1 bps, Fluval 404, ph 6.8
A Canadian's Plant Traders website


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Soon !!!
I had to remove all the glosso, as it was really bad!

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## EDGE (Feb 28, 2004)

Did you manage to keep any at all?

If you didn't, give me a month and I should be able to replenish you. the glosso is spreading really slowly in my tank. When I take pictures of the tank, I can't even see a green mat forming.

72 Gal, 3 WPG PC 10 hour, pressurize co2 /w controller 1 bps, Fluval 404, ph 6.8
A Canadian's Plant Traders website


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Yeah, I have some in another tank, thanks though!

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Here is a little update,



















*My Digital Gallery*

[This message was edited by ekim on Tue September 30 2003 at 06:34 PM.]


----------



## vijay (Aug 13, 2003)

though i liked the old look with the glosso i really like this look with the val and the sag it had a real biptope feel and the val reminds me of a nature style aquarium an overalll great effect


----------



## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Beautiful tank! I sure hope this made it into the AGA contest this year. By the way, did you really mean to post the same photo twice?

Roger Miller

"The indispensible first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want" -- Ben Stein


----------



## Guest (Oct 1, 2003)

Great tank Mike.

I enjoy present aquascape more than previous one. Tank has more of a dark/biotope feel to it. The only thing I would change is the color of your Discus. I would go with someting darker, maybe similar to Phil's species.

I feel some competition between Mike and Phil.


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Competition? Not at all! I don't think Mike could come up with something good enough!!!!

ROFLOL in puddle of my own sarcasm.

(Yes, that wasn't serious)

I like it a lot Mike. The pic is kind of dark where I am right now, but from what I can see it's great! Again, I like the Pidgies in there, the dark surroundings really help to show them off.

Due to dual cases of medication and overgrowth my plants have taken a double hit lately. It's my turn to take some inspiration from you this time. I love that gravel in the front look and I think my fish will appreciate it more than what they've got now. I'll definately be doing that.

How often and what are you feeding your fish? I've been getting a nutrient problem with my foods. THey didn't want to start eating the pellet I have so they got put on a frozen food regimen and the PO4 in particular is killing me.

Thanks for the update,
Phil

 
 

[This message was edited by Phil Edwards on Wed October 01 2003 at 04:29 PM.]


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

vijay, thanks

Roger, thanks a lot, no AGA after seeing Phil's tank!!!








The first host I used kept showing me a red X, so I tried another host... now both work!
Thanks again

Jay, thanks... I was/am going for a darker look, and I totally agree on the orange discus... mistake!
I wanted a large school of cardinals to go with the discus... I killed most of my slow growing school (10), being cheap and trying to breed them!








Phil's tank blows me away!!

Phil, hey, yeah it's a really tricky combo (plants & discus)!
About the feeding, recently only 1 big meal a day! I'm working 50+ hrs a week









Lots of beef heart, frz blood worms and color bits, occasional flakes!

Thanks all!

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Mike,

I can't get my fish to eat color bits. They simply refuse to eat anything not frozen or live. Well, since I don't feed live...frozen.









What're you talking about no AGA for you? Crazy man, that's a great tank! I wish I could get my crypts looking that good. Do you know what would make that tank look even better? More crypts!







Seriously, that wendtii (?) is awesome. I think a few more large bunches like the one on the left would be the icing on the cake.

Do you mind if I post one of the pics on Simplydiscus? The people in the Show tank forum would love it.

Best,
Phil

If you ever want to get rid of those fish, head over the border and send them my way, I'll be happy to take them off your hands. I'll trade you for a quartet of Farlowella acus.


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Yeah non of my discus took color bits first off, you'll have to starve them for a few(4) days, then only feed color bits for the next week or so... It's hard to do, but is a must IMO (autofeeds for vacations for example).

I'm not very happy with this aquascape... maybe because I see it everyday!

I like your more crypts idea... too bad my C. balansae won't spread! 4 months it was in the same location and no runners!
All the other crypts in the tank actually came from a leaf that was left in the tank from about a year ago! I think they are wendii(s), spreading like wild fire anyway!

Sure post it on simply, I haven't posted there in about 1 year... don't remember pass or login name!!

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Actually Phil, you have the NAW book 1 right?
Wich aquascape do you like better between page 58 and 82?
Instead of the rocks on page 58 I would use driftwood though!

Any comments on either?

thanks

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

I like pg 58 much better by far. The shape of the aquascape would lend itself to discus better than the mound on 82. Kinda funny that we both started off with mound 'scapes, huh?









I'm also not a big fan of M. pteropus as a major part of an aquascape. For seom reason it just doesn't appeal to me. If there were Anubias along the bottom portions of the mound I think it would look a lot better.

The aquascape on 58 has a much nicer vertical feel with I think suits discus very well. Using the valley type 'scape adds a lot of depth, something I've found is VERY important with discus. Since they're such big fish they can make even a large tank look small.

Can you get your hands on some C. spiralis? I've got some mixed with the balansae and it's growing REALLY well. In fact, it's starting to bbecome a nuisance. It's kind of like a much prettier Vallisneria.









Now to turn the tables on you. Which do you like better pg 121 or 117? Why?

Best,
Phil


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Hey Phil,
Yeah it is funny that we started with mound shapes!
I think i'm going to try something similar to p58, except use driftwood instead of rocks!
No, I haven't seen any C. spiralis around!
I wish my balansae would take off, I might have to try a jobe spike!

I like 121 much better, very natural! 
It looks like a nice slow growth tank! 
I'm not very impressed buy the driftwood arrangement on 117, also not a lily fan!

Thanks

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## ckhv420 (Oct 3, 2003)

Hello ekim,
The tank is beautiful. the various crypts works wonderful together. Ever consider an all-crypt layout? I think you are not too far from it. Such biotope-like layout always hard to master and has a special quaility all it's own... 
Cheers,
ckhv420


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Thanks ckhv420,
An all crypt layout would be cool but I can't find any C. parva around here.

A little update of how the tanks has evloved in the last 4 months!

June 24









July. 8









Sept. 30









Oct. 27









Thanks,
Mike Morrissey

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## Regturb (Sep 4, 2003)

one word, wow.

I have to admit at first when I saw how you changed it I was ready to scream! it was so cool before. But now that it has grown in it looks fantastic! The only thing is thos orange discus don't do the tank justice. Wild discus would look great!

29 gallon planted tank
75 gallon tanganyikan tank


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Mike,

That's awesome! It's growing in really well!!! I see you got the moss to grow, what have you done differently?


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Thanks guys,
actually Phil, that piece of wood was in my 20 gallon until this past weekend!
I really think the temp plays a big part!
The 20's temp ranges between 72-76F, and I can grow moss like crazy... the piece was 100% covered... I removed some moss from that piece to cover the new pieces of wood I put in the 20!

That my best guess!

Thanks,
Mike Morrissey

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## snowball2020 (May 26, 2004)

hi, i'm new here. just one question. how do you (or she/he) get the gravel to be covered with those plants. what are they call? are there more of those kinds? and how long does it takes to cover a 10 gal tank?


----------



## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

Welcome to the board Duc!

Lots of light, CO2 and good nutrients and most foreground plants will cover the gravel in a short time.
The foreground plant in the first photo is called Glossostigma elatinoides and in the last photo is Sagittaria subulata.
You could probably cover a 10 gallon tank in 3 -4 weeks if all the conditions are right!
Most of us usually just buy a small amount of a plant and let in grow in until we have as much as we want, the just trim the rest.

Regards,
Mike Morrissey

---------------
*My Digital Gallery*


----------

