# New to the idea of CO2



## lenosquid (Oct 9, 2006)

I am new to the freshwater planted tank and I have heard and seen a lot of CO2 talk. I have a 55 gallon tank and I use flourish and when I get more plants I will get some excel and maybe some of the other Seachem ferts. Does the CO2 systems work a whole lot better and allow the plants to thrive? I have seen a lot of pictures with the ADA systems and they look pretty sweet. Any ideas on ADA products and cost and if its worth it. Basically I am a beginner just looking into the option of CO2 and would like to get some feedback. Thanks


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Take a few minutes and read my Guide. The link is my Sig.

ADA makes great products. However that being said they are very expensive. You can check that out at Aqua Design Amano USA/ADGshop.com- now available in the U.S.A, prouldy offered by Aquarium Design Group. The finest planted aquarium products.

You can set up a manual pressurized system for around $150 using a 5 lb cylinder. If you want to control the CO2 system with a timer then it will run you around $175-$200.

But the first question is how much light do you have?


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## lenosquid (Oct 9, 2006)

Right now running two 96W 6700K/1000K fluorescent. About 9 hours per day. For now I would most likely use Flourish and Excel to get the Carbon in there. That would probably work right?

Any ideas where the best place to get Flourish and Excel anyone?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Flourish doesn't contain nitrates and phosphates, which are essential for plant growth. It does provide the trace elements you need. Excel for a 55 gallon tank will get very expensive fast, so pressurized CO2 is the best long term way to provide a good carbon source for the plants. Your light is of low enough intensity that you might be able to grow anubias, ferns, crypts, etc. without using CO2, and only fertilizing once a week.


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

hoppycalif said:


> ... Your light is of low enough intensity that you might be able to grow anubias, ferns, crypts, etc. without using CO2, and only fertilizing once a week.
> 
> ...


Hoppy I think you may have miscalculated here... before rushing out and doubling the lighting, isn't 2x 96w over a 55g about 3.5wpg? That's more than enough to grow anything.

In fact with that much lighting you pretty much need CO2 to have a good chance of success (until you do get CO2 into the tank, it may be an idea to turn off one of the lights). And good plant mass, macro ferts (NO3, PO4) and micros.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

hoppycalif said:


> Flourish doesn't contain nitrates and phosphates...


Flourish does contain small amounts of:
Nitrogen - 0.07%
Phosphates (P2O5) - 0.01%
Potassium (as potash) - 0.37%

You can see it in the Guaranteed Analysis : Flourish


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

Flourish does contain small quantities of N and P, but not nearly enough for well planted, well lit, CO2 supplemented tanks. In these types of tanks, Flourish is considered just a micro fertilizer, used for Fe and traces.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Small amounts is right. That's 7/100th of one percent. I think the average fart has more organic nitrogen in it than that.

You really have to take a close look at those numbers to understand how little there is.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Laith said:


> Hoppy I think you may have miscalculated here... before rushing out and doubling the lighting, isn't 2x 96w over a 55g about 3.5wpg? That's more than enough to grow anything.
> 
> In fact with that much lighting you pretty much need CO2 to have a good chance of success (until you do get CO2 into the tank, it may be an idea to turn off one of the lights). And good plant mass, macro ferts (NO3, PO4) and micros.


Yes, you are right! I missed the "2X"!! CO2 will be essential for that much light, and turning off one of them, and maybe reducing the lights on time to 8 hours a day, might work for low light plants and no CO2. Sorry, my mistake.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Rex Grigg said:


> ...You really have to take a close look at those numbers to understand how little there is.


I know that these are very, very tiny amounts of NPK. Hoppy said that there is none. I just wanted to point that there is a little bit in Flourish Comp. That's all.



Rex Grigg said:


> Small amounts is right. That's 7/100th of one percent. I think the average fart has more organic nitrogen in it than that...


 That's a great analogy!:eyebrows: Here's a few things about that.
SillyJokes.co.uk's Dictionary of Farting

How to avoid farts, flatus, gas, odor, body odor, cancer by not eating meat (Be sure to check out the part where people are employed to smell them.)


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## lenosquid (Oct 9, 2006)

So for right now with the current lighting regimen and the lack of CO2 would be detrimental to my plants? The plants are doing ok and I can see new buds on some of the species (Sorry I don't know the names quite yet). I would like to go with excel instead of CO2 because that process seems so expensive and daunting for a beginner. However if I have read correctly the excel is added daily and that would end up being expensive in the long run. So that leaves me with questions on the best way to get a complete CO2 setup and instructions. Of course I am not loaded so I cannot afford the ADA stuff, but I always go for quality over ... crap. Please let me know, anyone, that has the best experience and advice for me regarding the CO2 and whether injecting with the amount of light is really worth it. THANKS for your help everyone.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

The minimum equipment needed for a manual pressurized CO2 system is:

Cylinder - holds the CO2
Regulator - drops the pressure of the CO2 to a safe working pressure
Needle valve - allows you to adjust the flow rate of the CO2
Tubing - to carry the CO2
Check valve - to prevent water from getting into the regulator
Diffusion method - to mix the CO2 with the water

You can also add

Solenoid - electric valve used to control the flow of CO2 by use of a timer or pH monitor
Bubble counter - device that allows you to visually check the flow rate of the CO2

I prefer building my own regulators. And yes I build them for other people.

Check out my Guide. The link is my sig. Lots of good ideas in there on where to find various parts.


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## @[email protected] (Jul 10, 2006)

lenosquid said:


> I am new to the freshwater planted tank and I have heard and seen a lot of CO2 talk. I have a 55 gallon tank and I use flourish and when I get more plants I will get some excel and maybe some of the other Seachem ferts. Does the CO2 systems work a whole lot better and allow the plants to thrive? I have seen a lot of pictures with the ADA systems and they look pretty sweet. Any ideas on ADA products and cost and if its worth it. Basically I am a beginner just looking into the option of CO2 and would like to get some feedback. Thanks


ADA CO2 cylinder does not have the standard US thread pitch. It has a metric thread pitch which will pose a problem in the US/Canada when refilling because not all refilling depots are equipped to refill metric cylinder.


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## rkilling1 (Oct 25, 2006)

lenosquid said:


> So for right now with the current lighting regimen and the lack of CO2 would be detrimental to my plants? The plants are doing ok and I can see new buds on some of the species (Sorry I don't know the names quite yet). I would like to go with excel instead of CO2 because that process seems so expensive and daunting for a beginner. However if I have read correctly the excel is added daily and that would end up being expensive in the long run. So that leaves me with questions on the best way to get a complete CO2 setup and instructions. Of course I am not loaded so I cannot afford the ADA stuff, but I always go for quality over ... crap. Please let me know, anyone, that has the best experience and advice for me regarding the CO2 and whether injecting with the amount of light is really worth it. THANKS for your help everyone.


The problem you going to have is as soon as you introduce a form of carbon, wether it be CO2 or Excel, your plants are going to use up any avalible nutrients in the water column until one of the nutrients becomes deficient and that is just asking for an algae farm.

As far as a pressurized systems goes, most people that i have been in communication with, get thier system or parts from rex. He is highly recommended.


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## lenosquid (Oct 9, 2006)

REX - Do you make and sell full systems or just regulators? I am researching my options right now and of course I want to do it right the first time and not bother with fixing it later. I am pretty poor right now, but I am saving in order to get a good system. If you can't/don't do a full system what are the best options. Thanks


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

I build regulators. I don't sell cylinders or timers or pH monitors. I can also build you a PVC reactor.

I'm not sure what you mean by a full system though.


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## bigmark (Sep 8, 2006)

> I think the average fart has more organic nitrogen in it than that.


Ohhhhh man is that good.


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