# [Wet Thumb Forum]-automatic CO2



## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

I've been using a simple unit for getting CO2 into my planted tank but I want to get myself a fully automatic setup...canister...controller...reactor and the whole deal. I am, however, a little insecure about understanding how it all works getting the whole thing working properly. Can anyone direct me somewhere that explains how everything works so that I'm not overwhelmed once what I order arrives. I'd really appreciate that. THANKS, and I mean THANKS


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

I've been using a simple unit for getting CO2 into my planted tank but I want to get myself a fully automatic setup...canister...controller...reactor and the whole deal. I am, however, a little insecure about understanding how it all works getting the whole thing working properly. Can anyone direct me somewhere that explains how everything works so that I'm not overwhelmed once what I order arrives. I'd really appreciate that. THANKS, and I mean THANKS


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## BobAlston (Jan 23, 2004)

take a look at my web site.

However, I recommend you look at starting out without a pH controller which I feel is overkill. It will cost about $100. Without it, you can get some nice all-in-one units for about $80. YOu only need to add a reactor.

Bob

High Pressure CO2 sources, needle valves, information:
http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/AquaticPlants.htm#High%20Pressure%20CO2


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

And a cylinder.










American by birth, Marine by the grace of God! This post spell checked with IESpell available at http://www.iespell.com

See my Profile for tank details.

See my planted tank FAQ at http://members.dsl-only.net/~rex/
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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

I have a lot of info on my site as well including a DIY reactor and sections on regulators and tanks. It is really easy overall. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

*James Hoftiezer
Hoftiezer.Net - Journals and Libraries
Rate My Tank!!

Tank Journal - Aquascape ( Latest / Archive(No Longer Active))
Tank Journal - Parts and Construction ( Latest / Archive(No Longer Active))*


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

THANKS, guys, for your responses....your websites are really a BIG help in understanding what goes into these things. I've read through them and tons of the links you have in the websites and, man, am I tired!!! But, I kind of concluded that the pH controller isn't essential if I put the solenoid on a timer to shut off the CO2 when the timer for the lights turn them off. I would watch the pH initially when the pressurized CO2 unit is applied to the tank and adjust the regulator according to the readings of the pH tests....Turn the flow down if the pH is too low or turn the flow up if the pH for some reason is higher than I would want. Could you kindly confirm if this is correct, or correct me if it is not. That would be a security blanket for me and it woule tell me whether or not I'm beginning to understand how these things function. Thanks again.


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## imported_George (Mar 28, 2003)

Avi,

It took me approximately two years to muster-up enough courage to commit to a pressurized CO2 system...DIY before. The system has been running for 6 months and now I can't believe I did not switch to pressurized CO2 years ago. It has been fanatastic....in my experience anyway. Yes, reducing the bubbles-per-second(bps)should increase the pH and vice versa. One of the best benefits, for me, has been that I can now add my tap water with a pH of 8.6 or greater without having to add pH buffers to lower it to 6.9-7.0...my old method. The CO2 injection easily lowers the pH to the desired level at 4-6 bps. As overkill, I use a continuous reading pH meter so I have a pretty good idea of the pH swings during the day, night, and after my 30% water changes(weekly). The tank is a 55 gal., heavily planted with approx. 4 WPG/11 hrs/day.

However, this brings up the "old" discussion of "Do I run the CO2 for 24 hrs. per day or only during the daylight(photosynthetic period)." I can only speak from my experience but I decided to try running it continuously. The daytime and nigthtime pH fluctuations typically are less than 0.1(0.04-0.08) The pH meter measures to 0.01 accuracy...so the manufacturer says. I have monitored and recorded the pH values daily since starting the CO2 system. 

Take it for what it's worth and your results will vary according to the particluar parameters 
of your tank, but you might also try running the CO2 overnight and just compare the results of the fluctuations. In my case because the pH swings are so minimal, I would think that if I did shut off the CO2 during dark periods that I would see a larger swing than running it 24/7.

Once you get use to your system and whether you decide to run it only during light periods or continuously, I hope you enjoy it as much as I do. Also, I do not mean to imply that you need a pH meter as a "security blanket" but do have a test kit that is reliable...I just have a problem interpreting most test kits using a color comparative scale. P.S. I am still on my first 5 lb. tank(6 months).

Regards,
George


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

George...that was a nice reply and thanks for that. I was wondering what size tank to buy and I really didn't want to go bigger than a 5 pounder unless I absolutely had to, and from what you said, running it night and day on a 55 gallon tank, I think I'll take a chance on the 5 pound size. I already have a Pinpoint pH meter on the planted tank so I don't have to go out and get one so watching the pH will be a snap.

I've been using a Fizz Factory thingee on the tank and believe it or not, it did make a big difference in the growth of plants. It is, however, very ineffective compared to other CO2 systems and it's very expensive to keep up with the tablets so I've decided to make the investment.

Here's a couple of pics of the tank that I took recently. I'm sure it will do better once the pressurized setup that I hope to order this coming week is up and running:

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Avrumeleh/Planted_75_gallon_tank_1.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Avrumeleh/planted_75_gallon_fishtank_01a.jpg

By the way, if you don't mind, could you tell me which setup you decided upon? I'd be curious to know if you purchased a setup that was all put together or if you bought the components seperately and created a system for yourself....Thanks


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## imported_George (Mar 28, 2003)

Avi,

You're welcome. It looks like you are doing pretty good with that "fizzy thingee". However, you will find that the pressurized CO2 will allow you to control the CO2 level much easier....assuming no leaks and a good needle-valve.

There are numerous approaches available for fabricating a pressurized system...and about as many opinons. For the "mechanically" minded, they purchase and modify components purchased from local beer distributors, fire extinguisher distributors, Home Depot, etc. I am certainly not in that category, so I purchased the 5 lb. cylinder locally (~$58)and they refill for ~$8. I purchased a JBL All-in-One regulator from Robert H.(Aqua Botanic Store). It appears that it is still available through Robert as well as several other new options. This unit includes a solenoid. At the time I purchased it, I was uncertain whether I would want to control the timing for CO2 injection or not...as it turns out, I don't. Oh well, it's there if I do need it. The output pressure appears to be preset as far as I can tell(50 lbs I think but don't quote me). Some people like a regulator that allows them to adjust this pressure but I have not found any problems without that capability. 

The needle valve is probably one of, if not, the most important component of the regulator. I am very pleased with the needle valve in the JBL. I can fine-tune the bps to to about any level I want and it seems to be stable over time. The high and low pressure guages are O.K...english and metric scales but I find them a little difficult to read...not a big problem though.
Overall, I am pleased with the JBL to this point.

I do not use a separate reactor. I know I should and I have even purchased a few of the DIY components but have not taken the time to construct one. I am sure my system would be more efficient if I did. I am in the category of people who think you can't, within reason, have too much filtration and circulation in the tank. So I run two canister filters and inject the CO2 into one of the intake tubes....a no-no in most peoples opinon. However, I have not experienced any problems that this method can cause, air-lock, etc. I would recommend that you use a separate reactor. Good luck and keep in touch with your progress and experiences.

Regards,
George


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## Avi (Apr 7, 2004)

George....one more question if you don't mind...what range should the needle valve have the capacity to go down to? How many bps or bpm do you have going into your 55 gallon planted tank?


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## imported_George (Mar 28, 2003)

Avi,

I have never tried to see how few bps that the needle-valve on the JBL regulator will go. However, I think it will take it down to 1 bubble per "x" number of MINUTES...much lower than will be used in practice. I'm running from 4-6 bps. The aquatic system is pretty dynamic so you may have to make small adjustments as you go. The specific number of "bps" that you need is really something that you will have to determine by trial and error. Some recommend starting at 4 
bps...good starting point. It will all depend on your desired pH level, original pH value, number of plants, KH, duration of lighting,etc. Determine your water KH with a reliable KH test kit...very simple test and most kits I've tried give more or less the same value. It was beat into me that if you want to get a fairly good idea of what the CO2 concentration is in your tank, DO NOT add any pH buffers to adjust the pH. Let the CO2 do that if the tap water value is too high. The CO2 concentration can be easily estimate using one of the numerous pH/KH/CO2 charts. Roger Miller has one posted in one of the topic areas. By the way, Roger is an excellent source for water chemistry questions...moderator of "Plant Fertilization and Science" section.

Regards,
George


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## BobAlston (Jan 23, 2004)

I have slightly less than 1 bps of co2 into my 55 gallon tank. A lot depends on the efficiency of your diffuser or reactor and the amount of surface agitation you have. Use of a hang on the back filter loses a lot of co2 so your injection rate will have to be a lot higher than those with a canister filter.

Bob

High Pressure CO2 sources, needle valves, information:
http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/AquaticPlants.htm#High%20Pressure%20CO2


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