# Perrier Bottled Water for fertilizer???



## smellyfish (Dec 2, 2006)

Does anyone know if Carbonated Water like in Perrier can be used as an alternative method of adding Co2 to a planted aquarium??? If so how much do you use??? etc...etc...etc...
Also if plants use O2 in the dark, would adding extra aeration or even pressurized O2 be helpfull???
In a plant only aquarium to prevent blowoff of either CO2 or O2 would Sarran wraping the top of the aquarium be usefull???


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Aquarium plants use O2 24/7 just like we do.

I don't think you want a closed aquarium by using Saran Wrap.

CO2 is not a fertilizer. Here's a little discussion about carbonated water for use in a planted tank:
PlantGeek :: View topic - Adding something to drink?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Carbon is a nutrient that plants need, whether we call it a fertilizer or not. Our only choices for supplying that carbon seem to be Excel and CO2. Seltzer water is just CO2, except that such "mineral waters" usually contain other things, such as sodium, magnesium, etc. Before I would dismiss the idea of using seltzer water I would want to know how much CO2 per liter is in seltzer water, then I would want to try to develop a way to add that water at the rate that would maintain the 30-40 ppm of CO2 dissolved in the tank water. My first reaction is to laugh at the idea, but until someone does those calculations and design effort, I will withhold the laughs.


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

Takashi Amano discovered the benefits of added CO2 by pouring carbonated water into his planted aquariums many years ago.

It's probably not the ideal way to deliver CO2 but you would almost certainly see some benefit to it.

The best reason not to do it is that it's a hugely expensive way to deliver CO2 to your plants.


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## Left C (Jun 14, 2005)

Carbonated water was Amano's stepping stone into pressurized CO2 systems. 

That's what the link that I posted says if you didn't get a chance to read it.

His mentor had advised him that the same low CO2 concentrations found in nature that's suitable for growing aquatic plants was adequate for growing aquatic plants in aquarium use also. Amano didn't think so and in a round about way; he tried carbonated water and it worked. Pleased with his discovery; he was on the way to using pressurized CO2.

I'm glad we aren't using bottled carbonated water!


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Try this calculation: carbonated water has a pH of around 4 to 5, and contains some carbonates, typically. So, the pH/KH chart gives around 3000 ppm CO2 if the KH is 1-2 with pH of 4. Lets assume that is in the right ballpark.

We bubble CO2 into a 40-60 gallon tank at around 5 bubbles per second, or so. Each bubble is in the neighborhood of 2 cubic milimeters in size. The density of CO2 at atmospheric pressure is about 1.9 kg/m3. So, 5 bubbles per second is about 5 x 2 = 10cubic mm of CO2 per second. In one hour that is 3600 x 10 = 36000 cubic mm of CO2, or 36 x 10 exp-6 cubic meters. That mass of CO2 = 36 x 10exp-6 x 1.9 = 70 x 10 exp-6 kg of CO2, which is 70 mg of CO2 per hour added to the tank.

Each liter of carbonated water will have about 3000 mg of CO2 in it. To get a steady input of 70 mg/hour of CO2 into the tank requires 70/3000 = .02 liters of carbonated water per hour, so a liter would last 1/.02, or about 50 hours, or two days.

So, if someone could find a system that would dispense a liter of carbonated water every two days, without allowing the water to go flat as it was being dispensed, we would have a different method for dosing CO2.

Should I patent this???


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Hoppy.... Here's another method of doing a quick check. I'm thinking you'd need quite a bit more perrier than you calculated:

I have a 46g aquarium that uses a 5lb CO2 cylinder every 6 months or so. It runs via a solenoid on a timer for about 12 hours per day.

5 lb = 5 x 453.59 = 2,268 grams = 2.27 million mg
A bottle lasts for 6 x 30.5 x 12 = 2,196 hours

2,270,000 mg / 2,196 hours = 1,033 mg/hour = about 1 gram/hour

So, by these calc's, a 1 liter bottle would last about 3 hours, which is roughly what Amano observed, if I recall his story correctly.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

After I posted my calculation I realized that the seltzer water method works best if you keep a bottle of CO2 handy to keep recharging more water. Something about that idea seems out of whack, but I just can't figure out what it could be????


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

You can't add a lot of carbonated water at once to the tank, or it will kill fish. You would have to add it in small doses. In that sense, it would be best to use a dosing pump, otherwise, you would be adding a small amount of carbonated water to the tank every 5 to 10 minutes. But the problem is, once the container of carbonated water is opened and no longer at pressure, it goes flat in 1-2 hours. So you'd have to replace the carbonated water every 1-2 hours, unless you can figure a way to keep the carbonated water at pressure while it is being dosed. But to do that, you'd end up with a complex, expensive and customized type of system, and it would run out LONG before a standard CO2 tank would run out.

Therefore, it doesn't make practical or economic sense to use carbonated water as a CO2 source.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Of course I agree, Salt. My little calculation game was intendet to show that even an obviously bad idea is subject to a few simple calculations to see how practical it might be. And, the engineering needed to design a system for keeping the seltzer bottle under pressure, while also dribbling out the contents at the slow flow rate needed to supply the right amount of CO2, is not that difficult. But, the payoff just isn't there. Even if my calculation is correct, and it probably is off by a factor of 2 or more, you would need a fresh bottle of seltzer water every other day, probably at a cost greater than $1 each, or $15 a month. Pressurized CO2 and even DIY CO2 are cheaper than that.


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## BigB (Dec 1, 2006)

if you get really bored, Find a way to pressurize the bottle with a homemade regulator and you will then be able to bubble the co2 that is escaping the bottle into the tank like pressurized or DIY

Then use the bottle after its empty to top off the tank lol

Thats a much better idea then pouring it into the tank and alot more practical


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## Greeblies (Nov 17, 2006)

Ok so what if you have a planted tank that didn't have any fish in it, and you just dumped a bottle of perrier in it? Can the plants experience any kind of euphoria from a sudden dosing of c02 or would they go into some kind of shock? How would I identify either case?


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