# Blue Rams Laid Eggs!



## DJKronik57

My Blue Ram pair have laid a big patch of eggs (about 1" by 1.5") on a flat rock in my tank overnight and now the male and female are taking turns fanning them! This is the first time I've had Blue Rams and had them breed.

I read somewhere else that the eggs are supposed to be a brownish-pinkish color, yet mine seem to be (of course they picked the most awkward to see spot in the whole tank) white and milky and somewhat transparent looking. Does this mean they have not been fertilized?

Also, would it be advisable to take some of the eggs out and put them in a small tank or maternity/breeder tank to ensure some of them survive? There's no sign of the parents (first time parents as far as I know) eating the eggs yet but I'd really like some babies out of this.

As a first timer (to any egg raising, let alone Blue Rams) what should I do over the next few days till they hatch? Any advice? Thanks!


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## TetraFreak

CONGRATS!

a site you will definately want to check is: 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/index.php

Yeah, eggs should be colored but as this is their first spawn, they may not be fertile eggs. Rams can be a bit slow in becoming good parents and the only way you'll know is to watch them with the first spawn. Leave the eggs & watch their behavior. They may very well eat the eggs the first few times so ya gotta watch them.

I would be interested in seeing pics of the rams and the eggs if you would be able & willing to post them!

Best of luck!

-TF


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## Erin

I have rams as well and would love to see some pictures of the eggs, I've had eggs, but don't know who they are from!!


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## DJKronik57

Attached are some pictures as of tonight. It looks like the number of eggs has deminished, and the female seems to be eating the eggs. I guess I should just let her since they look like they aren't fertilized. Any advice?

P.S. Sorry for the bad photos, the eggs are at the back of the tank and behind an anubia, so I have to take the picture from a corner and pretty far away. You can at least see the general color of the eggs on the rock.


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## TetraFreak

As far as hetting them to spawn again...

Give them about 2 weeks, then a water change with some cooler water! This will simulate a tropical rain storm and should trigger another spawn. Also, make sure you're feeding/conditioning them with meaty live foods!


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## taekwondodo

If they hatch and do well, I'll take as many of the babies as you want to get rid of!
   
Congrats!

- Jeff


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## DJKronik57

Well, unfortunately albiet expectedly, all the eggs are gone, I assume eaten. Hopefully in 3 weeks these guys will have learned a bit (and maybe the male can get his act together and fertilize the eggs) and we will have some babies. I think next time I will take some of the eggs and put them in a maternity tank just to be safe. Thanks for all of your help though!


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## HydroBot

Rams can be a chore for the amateur breeder. I have known experienced hobbiest who have pulled their hair out over Ram antics (see avatar). First off its not always easy to find suitable breeding stock. Rams can be tough to nurse back to health if they've come from less than Ideal sources. However if you are lucky enough to put a good pair together, you are half way there. Success with rams is all about stable water conditions and conditioning. Live food is the ticket to quick conditioning but avoid full grown brine shrimp from the LFS. It has been my experience that larger brine shrimp can cause digestive problems in Dwarf cichlids and smaller fish in general. But the good news is that mosquito larvae are easily obtained right from your own back yard. I have had very good results conditioning fish on mosquito larvae and baby brine shrimp. Now that your fish are healthy and well conditioned breeding is almost a given. It is not uncommon for the first batch to go unfertilized but it is still practice for your parents to be, the female will clean her spot of the unviable eggs which will be good for her. What you have to watch out for is that the healthy fertilized eggs don't get eaten as well! For some reason about half of the Ram pairs I have ever owned would eat there eggs before they have a chance to hatch. If you get a pair like this there is nothing you can do but remove the eggs and hatch them away from the parents. If you are lucky enough to have a pair with "good" parental instincts then you still have to watch the fry. I have had free swimming fry in the tank with the parents for weeks only to have them all be eaten/killed right before a new spawn. Found that I had the best results hatching and rearing the fry away from the parents but this is not without its hazards too. It took me several spawns to figure out how to get the fry past that crucial point between when they loose their yolk sacks and are able to eat baby brine shrimp. I had limited success with fry food in tubes (you know the brand) green water turned out to be the key. Another drawback to removing the eggs from the parents is that it can cause stress and strife between the pair, they can turn on each other and begin fighting or just lose interest in breeding.

Rams are a RPITA IMO but breeding them, raising the fry and passing them on to fellow hobbiest and the LFSs was a very rewarding experience that taught me much. Rams are a logical progression for the beginning breeder that has already conquered some of the easier cichlids and wants more of a challenge. What you learn from Rams can be applied towards Apistos and help to ensure success in future breeding endeavors. Besides they truly are "Little Jewels" that are a pleasure watch.


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## Raul-7

Great post! I've found what you said to be very true, I currently have two pairs. Both of them always eat their fry once they become free-swimming, yet I'm not sure why - is because they feel threatened when I use the baster to feed the fry? Next time I will try removing the fry as I have a really beautiful male who I want to pass his genes on. 

Is it true their lifespan is only 1-2 years?


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## PMD1

Is it true their lifespan is only 1-2 years?


Yes, at least my experience confirms this.

I have had a number of pairs over the years and the longest time that they lived in my tanks have been no more than two years.


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## bristles

I have a pair that lays every 6 weeks or so but eggs only last about 2 days & disappear not sure who eats them. Thought of trying to remove eggs but they always choose the biggest piece of driftwood in the tank. sure would be cool to see them hatch, but thats another project, I'm still trying to keep my angel fish fry alive more than a few weeks.


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## FazTeAoMar

HydroBot said:


> Rams can be a chore for the amateur breeder. I have known experienced hobbiest who have pulled their hair out over Ram antics (see avatar). First off its not always easy to find suitable breeding stock. Rams can be tough to nurse back to health if they've come from less than Ideal sources. However if you are lucky enough to put a good pair together, you are half way there. Success with rams is all about stable water conditions and conditioning. Live food is the ticket to quick conditioning but avoid full grown brine shrimp from the LFS. It has been my experience that larger brine shrimp can cause digestive problems in Dwarf cichlids and smaller fish in general. But the good news is that mosquito larvae are easily obtained right from your own back yard. I have had very good results conditioning fish on mosquito larvae and baby brine shrimp. Now that your fish are healthy and well conditioned breeding is almost a given. It is not uncommon for the first batch to go unfertilized but it is still practice for your parents to be, the female will clean her spot of the unviable eggs which will be good for her. What you have to watch out for is that the healthy fertilized eggs don't get eaten as well! For some reason about half of the Ram pairs I have ever owned would eat there eggs before they have a chance to hatch. If you get a pair like this there is nothing you can do but remove the eggs and hatch them away from the parents. If you are lucky enough to have a pair with "good" parental instincts then you still have to watch the fry. I have had free swimming fry in the tank with the parents for weeks only to have them all be eaten/killed right before a new spawn. Found that I had the best results hatching and rearing the fry away from the parents but this is not without its hazards too. It took me several spawns to figure out how to get the fry past that crucial point between when they loose their yolk sacks and are able to eat baby brine shrimp. I had limited success with fry food in tubes (you know the brand) green water turned out to be the key. Another drawback to removing the eggs from the parents is that it can cause stress and strife between the pair, they can turn on each other and begin fighting or just lose interest in breeding.
> 
> Rams are a RPITA IMO but breeding them, raising the fry and passing them on to fellow hobbiest and the LFSs was a very rewarding experience that taught me much. Rams are a logical progression for the beginning breeder that has already conquered some of the easier cichlids and wants more of a challenge. What you learn from Rams can be applied towards Apistos and help to ensure success in future breeding endeavors. Besides they truly are "Little Jewels" that are a pleasure watch.


Hi Jeff.

Same here. I have been trying to breed my german blue rams for over 4 months. I have been always reluctant to take the fry way from the parents, even though they ended being eaten by the female. From my experience, what causes the parents to eat their fry is the availability of the female in being stuffed with eggs again and ready to spawn again. Female is the first to eat their youngs, followed by the male. The fry are only eaten at the 7th day, when they are already free swimming.

In my last two spawns that I continue to let the fry with the parents, I noticed some agressive behaviour by the male towards the female. This was at about the 4/5th day of fry existence, with their yolk sack still attached. I assumed that the male sensed that the female was preparing to eat the fry and so he tried to get her far from the fry as possible. Though male was super-protector, he ended up loosing the batch to tetra fish.

The last spawn occured 20 days ago. After almost ten frustrating spawns with no fry surviving more than 8 days, I decided to make an intervention and take the fry away from the parents as soon as they would be free swimming. At the 5th day, with all the fry swiming closely to the parents, I took a big syringe and got all the fry that I could get to another estabilished tank, after a good acclimatization. I had already tried this methood in the past and was sucessfull, putting fry in a nursery in parents tank. What I didn´t know was that mother, with her killer instinct, could reach the tiny fry with her suction attacks and ended up killing all the fry that were close to the net. Well, this time, I would not take any chances and got a whole 65L tank for the fry.

Today I am proud to say that fry are already twenty days old and started to eat microworms. I noticed that, even with water changes, their growth is very slow. Fortunately, they already eat microworms so I expect that their growth increases dramatically in the next couple of weeks. Finally, after so many frustrating attemps to breed this wonderful fish, I am able to take care of the fry and try to make them reach adulthood.

Here´s the link to my German Blue Rams:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...man-blue-rams.html?highlight=german+blue+rams

Regards,
André


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