# Fish disease



## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

I'm starting to see damage on my angel fish. They seem to have injuries that look like bite marks. They mostly seem to appear around the upper fin and head area. There is no fuzz inside the wounds. This is an example of what the injuries typically look like. I've lost 3 of my 22 angels from this issue. I bred these and raised them to adult size in my 90g tank. Weekly 50% water changes, the temperature is at 80F and it is fully planted. I recently moved (two months ago) to a new apartment with a different water source but I have not added any new fish in about 6-8 months so I don't know if that has something to do with it. Any ideas what this could be?










My tank:


----------



## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Another pic, these three below are all on the same fish:


----------



## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

I have no idea what that is. But from the little experience with importing fish some time ago I can tell you - first thing you do is to raise the temperature. It works wonders on many diseases.

Using medicines is a long shot. Very long shot.

Sad to hear you raised these fish. Just last night a kind of rasbora that came mixed with other fish 3 years ago jumped out of my tank, got dog hairs stuck to it and pretty dry. I put her in the tank and it was still breathing. I was happy to see it swimming around this morning, colors and all. But it died by the end of the day. It is sad, I raised it from basically a baby. Hope that doesn't happen to your fish.


----------



## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

sorry to hear that and thanks for your kind words.

I'm hoping its not a disease perhaps they are just biting each other when I am not looking?

I wanted to sell some of them this coming weekend, but if this is a sickness I'm not really comfortable with that. I just don't know enough about fish diseases to make a good call alone. A lot of the damage really does look like bites but I'm not sure.

At any rate I think I'll be removing them from the 90g tank and keeping only 4 of them in my 90g (so they'll breed). The rest I'll either sell or transfer to my 180g tank where they'll have plenty of room to squabble.

Assassin snails wouldn't attack fish would they?


----------



## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

First post, second pic, farthest right looks a bit fluffy. Not much. 
Second set of pictures, third pic, also looks a bit fluffy. 
The other pics look like bites. 
Maybe it is the photography? 

Look up Columnaris. One form can be active under the skin and show up between the scales. I think it pops out from more than one spot, though, like from under dozens of scales. 

Angelfish are social only when they are young. The fry stay close to the parents for protection. 
But they soon become less social, more argumentative. They leave and set up their own territory which they defend against all other fish except their mate. 
I think these are injuries caused by the fighting. 
I would separate these fish, even if they had to go into much smaller tanks. Not good for them, the dorsal fin grows best in deep water, a tall tank. 
Maybe you could set up a tall grow out tank with dividers?


----------



## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

I had columnaris on my wild pymies. It is a terribly aggressive disease and seems to produce an eruption of fuzz from the wounds. I'm not sure how many forms of it there are but its not the columnaris I had in my other tank.

I think it might be an artifact of the pictures. I had a look and did not see any fuzz in the wounds. It looks like the skin is scratched or partly eroded in the first set on the right wound. That one actually has disappeared now on the fish, only the one on the left still remains. I'm not sure if that wound is healing though since it is still open.

I wonder if the last set 3rd picture is just a spot of ich? After the temperature fluctuation a week or so ago I did notice a small break out of ich which seems to have gone away when I raised the temperature up to 80F.

The angels definitely have been getting steadily more nippy and quarrelsome towards each other, especially the two main pairs. 

I'll be taking them home this weekend, except for a few which I'll keep for breeding.

I'd like to know if you think is ok for me to sell most of them at this weekend's auction or should I keep them until I'm 100% sure they are not sick? They seem to act normally and are eating just fine. Also, all the other fish in the tank (kribs and cories) don't seem to have any sort of bite marks or issues, which makes me think it is fighting. Its just that one gill hole that makes me wonder, it seems to be to small for a bite wound, and so deep? Not to mention the 3 angels that have died so far didn't seem to have any wounds on them at all except for them missing their eyes (which I assume were eaten?). Actually I found the bones of one, and partially eaten remains of the second, the third was missing its eyes only.

Thanks for your help on this Diana.


----------



## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

Very probably "holes disease", caused by a parasite is called _Hexamita_. Slow developing, but eventually usually lethal without treatment. Can become secondary infected with fungus, which gives a "fuzzy" impression. Some deficiancies give similar symptoms.

You have mighty many angels there, what are you planning to do when they become adult, pair up and become territorial? For angels I miss plants with large leaves for egg deposition!

The aquarium looks very open and pale without background, how do the fish react when you walk past? For fish I would much prefer a dark background, even a piece of dark cardboard glued on the back and side windows is doing a lot. I fear that this aspect is much overlooked with the current "Amano-fashion". Stress reduces resistance to diseases. I presume that you test the water parameters from time to time?


----------



## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Hmm, possibly Hexamita, I'll do some reading on it. What is the cure for it?

I was planning on culling them and choosing the best ones to breed again. Probably selling the others.

The fish go nuts when I walk by, they swarm up to the glass and beg for food. They even do this right after I've fed them and their tummies are bulging! Greedy piggies! Also, the picture above is an older photo, I moved to a new apartment and the tank is near a wall with dark wood paneling behind it where it gets direct sunlight for about an hour a day.

I have test kits but I don't use them all that often. Usually when I do I'm to low on nitrates since the plants use it all up. Same with phosphates.


----------



## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

It sounds more like the fish attacking each other, then. Make sure the buyer is aware of that. 

If there is any way you can separate the fish from each other until the wounds heal that would be best. 

Hole In the Head can attack most Cichlids, and a few other fish. 
Treatment is based on the two known (or suspected) causes. 
An internal parasite (Metronizadole is effective)
Poor nutrition- Rotate different foods that do not contain fish meal or grains. Include frozen foods. Add vitamins that are sold for caged birds- a liquid that you will put a few drops onto the food right before feeding.


----------



## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

The issue is definitely getting worse, now all my fish have some sort of mark on them and the one with the hole in its gill flap has several more injuries and is breathing hard. Still acting normally otherwise.

Last night I removed them all, and put them in a separate tank. I've got the temperature at 84F and I dosed with metronidazol. It says two doses are needed to cure the fish. So I will know in 72 hours if it has worked.

I've got to admit though, that besides fish who get ich, treating with medication has never really worked well. Most fish that get sick die shortly after. I just hope I can save a few to keep breeding them.


----------



## illustrator (Jul 18, 2010)

Two additions: 
if the diagnosis is correct, it might take longer to see an effect. The parasites might be gone, but the wounds can take longer to heal. 

Probably not needed for you (considering that you bred the fish and thus have experience), but since you never know who all read this forum: please keep in mind to test the water in the separate tank. It can get the common starting up problems of an uncycled tank. this is much reduced if you use (partly) water from the established tank, but still, there might not be a balanced bacterial flora in the tank and you add a lot of fish at once. A nitrite/nitrate peak might be a killer in such a case.


----------



## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

> this is much reduced if you use (partly) water from the established tank


Not really. There is very little nitrifying bacteria in the tank water.

If you are trying to move some nitrifying bacteria to the hospital tank with some fish, move some of the filter media from their original tank. It won't be any more 'contaminated' than the fish already are, with whatever disease they have, and it will have a good population of nitrifying bacteria.

And the killer is ammonia or nitrite, in an uncycled tank, not so much nitrate which will only show up when there is a good population of nitrifying bacteria.


----------



## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Speaking of these fish I need to go put them into their new 180g tank...


----------



## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Well I put them in an empty 55g with flora base for now. They look better. I don't see lesions anymore except that one large one in the first picture. All the newer ones have gone. One angel did die, it was the one with the most damage on it to begin with, it wasn't looking very stable when I started the treatment. 

Hopefully they will be fine now. In a few weeks when I come back home again I'll probably sell them to a pet store or online.


----------

