# fragility



## aquamaniac (Apr 14, 2005)

Hi ! The leaves on my every single plant are so fragile, that I'm almost afraid to touch them. Can sombeody tell me what kind of deff. is that?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

It would be a lot easier to make a guess if we knew the size of the tank, the light wattage and type, the substrate, the fertilizing schedule, the CO2 method, and the species of plants. Just a little more information.


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## aquamaniac (Apr 14, 2005)

I thought that exists a general dignose for this simptome. I dose NPK, Mg +traces and recently started to add CaCl. I'm sure, that I have enough PO4, No3 and Co2, but something is missing. The leaves are not so green as it could be and I started to have some doubt about my chelated Fe (Ciba KelCare Fe DP ) (DTPA). So I have no idea why my plants do not grow propperly?


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## Freemann (Mar 19, 2004)

Have you considered the possibility that you are overdriving your tank somehow (to much light to much CO2 to much nitrates or to much all?)? I have this symptoms (yellowing, brittle plants) when I overdrive the tank. It can be a number of factors, fert toxicity, to much speed for the plants to get some of the ferts they need, chelated iron is very sensitive and breaks down fast after it is introduced to water, better to add little frequently in dry form. Brittle prolly means fast growth, plants are full of water, slow means more plant mass less water in the tissue. Mg can be tricky for me I just make sure it is around either from the mains or by adding it, don't overdose it.
Just a guess


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

aquamaniac said:


> I'm sure, that I have enough PO4, No3 and Co2


How do you know?


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## aquamaniac (Apr 14, 2005)

Freemann I think you're right.

I went to my city water works for analysis and this is the final result :

Ca - 33,66 mg/l
Mg -17,1 mg/l
Fe - 0,918 mg/l
NH4 - 0,127 mg/l
NO2 - 0,015 mg/l
NO3 - 34,5 mg,l
PO4 - 7,33 mg/l
Mn - 0,163 mg/l
Zn - 0,363 mg/l
Cl - 107,47 mg/l
SO4 - 0

I have to do some big wather changes to dilluate PO4, Fe and other traces, maybe Chlor to, but should I add something to incrase my S level ?
I can't get rid of my thread algae because my plants don't grow fast enough. I'm out of ideas..


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

Well, I guess you don't want to answer my question.

So another one.

Is it possible that your water is/has been softened?


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

SO4 - 0

Sounds like what happened when my plants had a sulfur deficiency. The plants got brittle, yellowish and stopped growing.

You can add MgSO4, or KSO4 to the tank to raise the S level. Just look on gregwatsons.com

Also, keep in mind that the results your water company gave you might not be accurate for you house. They tend to average all of their results over the entire range of their water. So they might claim they have Ca - 33,66 mg/l Mg -17,1 mg/l Fe - 0,918 mg/l NH4 - 0,127 mg/l NO2 - 0,015 mg/l NO3 - 34,5 mg,l PO4 - 7,33 mg/l Mn - 0,163 mg/l Zn - 0,363 mg/l Cl - 107,47 mg/l SO4 - 0 but in reality it may be that these are the averages for all their customers, and it might be that your water in particular is very different from these results.


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## aquamaniac (Apr 14, 2005)

First of all thanks for the answers.

*Banderbe and Zappins*, those levels are my aquarium parameters. I went personaly with a bottle of water to the wather company. They have very accurate stuffs more than our hobby tests. My water never has been softened, I use regular tape water. If I add MgSO4 I will rise Mg to, wich is already high (17,1mg/l). I don't know my K levels but I suppose that it is high because to much KNO3 and KH2PO4 added. So the K2SO4 will not solve the problem. Maybe I'll make today another wate change and after that I should add K2SO4? Who knows, the real problem maybe is not the S..


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

You should not worry too much about K issues. You can dose quite a bit of K without problems. All you need is a little S in the water to be fine.

Maybe add 1/4th of a teaspoon or 1/3rd of a teaspoon of K2SO4 once a week and your S needs will be taken care of.


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

aquamaniac said:


> First of all thanks for the answers.
> 
> *Banderbe and Zappins*, those levels are my aquarium parameters. I went personaly with a bottle of water to the wather company. They have very accurate stuffs more than our hobby tests. My water never has been softened, I use regular tape water. If I add MgSO4 I will rise Mg to, wich is already high (17,1mg/l). I don't know my K levels but I suppose that it is high because to much KNO3 and KH2PO4 added. So the K2SO4 will not solve the problem. Maybe I'll make today another wate change and after that I should add K2SO4? Who knows, the real problem maybe is not the S..


I was wondering because here in the states (I assume you are in Europe?) homes that are in areas where the water comes from limestone aquifers have water softeners so that "tap water" has been passed through the softening unit. I thought I was just using tap water too when I started out in the hobby and found out my water was softened, so was full of sodium which is murder on plants. The symptoms you describe sound similar to what I saw until I started using regular old hard water.


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## Glouglou (Feb 21, 2006)

*About sulphur*

Sometimes the stem of some of my plants become fragile and break easily. I don't know if sulphur can cause this but this a link with very interesting fact about sulphur and photosynthethisis and the primordial importance of that element (rarely mention as so).

Default Page


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## aquamaniac (Apr 14, 2005)

If I stop my CO2, my plants starts to grow. Not so fast but a lot healthier and the fragile stems will also appear more resistant. Is it possible that something is missing in my aquarium and when I add CO2 the plants can't adapt to the faster growth rate because of the missing element?


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

aquamaniac, yes you are correct. 

CO2 accelerates growth since it provides plants with enough carbon (which is usually the limiting element). After carbon is in excess, another nutrient will be limited if you don't add enough of it. Which element it is, just depends on what you are adding and what is in your water.


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## redstrat (Apr 3, 2006)

I would say your probably dosing to much Calcium. I had a similar problem, it sounds like to me at least, a while ago when I used to dose Ca. It throws off the ratio of Ca and Mg. So whats your tank's general hardness(GH) and Carbonate Hardness (KH), just out of curriousity. if your gh is above 5 degrees or so you probably shouln't be dosing any Calcium.

another supporting sidenote for this-
I recently switched from dosing Calcium Nitrate to dosing Potassium Nitrate because I felt I was still dosing a little to much Calcium and therefor altering my GH and Ca Mg ratio. Within a day of switching ferts for my N source I noticed changes in the rate and quality of growth as well as a reduction in algae. My GH from the tap ranges from 8-10 degrees, I no longer dose any additional calcium or mg other than the minute ammounts in Flourish. I also have noticed a significant increase in the ammount of sideshoots my stem plants put out. 

just my two cents


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## aquamaniac (Apr 14, 2005)

I've just recived my new water analysis :

Ca : 33,66 mg/l
Mg : 9,24 mg/l
Fe : 0,262 mg/l
NO3 : 6,32 mg/l
PO4 : 1,37 mg/l
Cl : 44 mg/l
Gh: 6,95 mg/l
Ammonium: 0,023 mg/l

Should I lower something, or eventualy incrase something? (ex. Ca,Mg)

I started to dose K2SO4 because I noticed some brownish-yellowish pinholes on the Higrophilas leaves. Plants look happier, but they still grow slower.


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## aquamaniac (Apr 14, 2005)

I made another 50% water change to diluate especialy Mg level in my aquarium. Plants grow better now, but I can't beat the thread algae. I don't know the reason why it seems to disappear one day, but after a while it comes back. Maybe there is a kind of instability..
Can somebody help me to solve my problem?


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