# plants dont get red color



## Yoni_S (May 17, 2010)

Hello to everyone

im new to this forum but i've been surfing here for a few months now 
and this forum covers alot of topics and its a great forum.

i have a hightec planted aquarium, and what ever i do i cant get the red color in my ludwigia cuba,Limnophila aromatica, Pogostemon stellatus and Didiplis diandra(only yellow not red).

i've used seachem iron and now im trying florin-fe but still no results
i dont think its the lighting because other plants do get some color and are healthy.
im dosing with NPK DIY, CSM+B and the iron
my tank is almost 100% planted
here is some data:

293 liter tank
6 X T5 54W lights
2 grolux
4 osram 865
1.1W per liter

co2 professional system 2 bubbels per sec

filter ATMAN EF4
UV 5W AQUAONE
1 small power head for water circulation
100% osmosis water
water change every 2 weeks 30%

using JBL AQUABASIS PLUS and aquasoil

if you want i will specify my plants

i dont know what im doing wrong


----------



## Crispino Ramos (Mar 21, 2008)

try to lower the nitrates. nitrates tend to bring out the green color.


----------



## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Presuming your CO2 is at high enough levels, Reduce the NO3 and see what happens. If you get bright reds, try reducing the light and see if it stays. This topic of getting red is being discussed (argued and fought over?) on this thread: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilizing/71043-l-aromatica-light-ferts.html

If it's not one or the other, there's little denying that both low NO3 and high light works works. You've tried one, try them both at the same time now. I know of no better guesses.


----------



## Yoni_S (May 17, 2010)

if i reduce NO3 to 10PPM it means that i have to reduce
PO4 to 1 right?


----------



## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Nope. The idea is to short the N required to make chlorophyll, but not anthocyanin. Phosphorous is needed for cellular mitosis; you don't want to slow that down one bit. Just reduce the KNO3 and compensate for the K+ with K2SO4.

Some have mentioned increasing PO4. I'm not sure of the logic behind that if it's non-limiting. I know some nutrients can substitute for others to a certain extent, but I don't know about P for N.


----------



## DVS (Nov 20, 2005)

Yoni_S said:


> if i reduce NO3 to 10PPM it means that i have to reduce
> PO4 to 1 right?


No reason you would have to.


----------



## Yoni_S (May 17, 2010)

ok thank you 
ill keep PO4 at 2 ppm and lower nitrate to 10 PPM and 
ill report back with results


----------



## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

+1 to reduce nitrates

but here is what i saw as a potential problem
"100% osmosis water
water change every 2 weeks 30%"

you might consider changing water 50% tap 50% RO 
every week 50% of the total tank volume.
i believe more water changes = better results 

good luck


----------



## Elohim_Meth (Nov 4, 2007)

Philosophos said:


> Some have mentioned increasing PO4. I'm not sure of the logic behind that if it's non-limiting.


Yes, I would say PO4 mustn't be zero. Just recently I've found out that my tank had run out of phosphates, and my red plants were green. I've dosed 1 ppm PO4 and the next day they were red again.


----------



## Yoni_S (May 17, 2010)

doubleott05 said:


> +1 to reduce nitrates
> 
> but here is what i saw as a potential problem
> "100% osmosis water
> ...


i agree that the more water changes the better but i grow some plant spec. that require 100%
osmosis so tap water is out of the question.

ill raise water change to 50% once every 2 weeks, more i cant because im working on low pressure
water system and i cant change that.
so water changes take more time for me then the usual hobbiest.


----------



## plamski (Oct 27, 2009)

Don't go too high with PO4 it will bring nice BBA.This was my case.There is NO3 -PO4 ratio which will keep algae away.


----------



## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Why would you limit PO4? That would slow cellular mitosis in the plants as well. For that matter, algae out-competes plants for nutrients having both lower equilibrium and faster uptake. By the time you're dosing plants, you're already feeding the algae nice n' heavy.


----------



## Yoni_S (May 17, 2010)

my PO4 stand at 2PPM and NO3 stands at 10PPM
so far no change 
my aromatica leafs are red in the bottom but
still yellow in the upper side

any thoughts?


----------



## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

Calibrate the test kits first. It's hard to read NO3 and PO4 otherwise.


----------



## Yoni_S (May 17, 2010)

im aware of that problem, one time i checked NO3 and it showed me 40PPM
i didnt belived it, then i checked again after a good shake 
of the tube and the second bottle and it read 10PPM.

p.s
i published i like in the 13th post and its gone
why???
is likes to youtube not allowed?


----------



## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

You may have some lucky (post-calibration) if you just cut the NO3 altogether to make sure everything else is right. From there dose nonlimiting again long enough for plants to recover their luxury reserves, then start testing ranges. Might save time.


----------



## Yoni_S (May 17, 2010)

Philosophos said:


> You may have some lucky (post-calibration) if you just cut the NO3 altogether to make sure everything else is right. From there dose nonlimiting again long enough for plants to recover their luxury reserves, then start testing ranges. Might save time.


i havent understood alot of what you said here 
my english is quite good but still not my native one
so please if you can repeat that with simpler words


----------



## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

No problem. I will write more simply.

Do not dose any NO3. If food and substrate give too much nitrogen, then even dosing no nitrogen through fertilizers will be too much. If you don't have enough CO2, the same thing will happen. If the plants do turn red without any nitrogen fertilizer, then dose them heavy again to make sure that they aren't starved. After that, slowly lower the amount of nitrogen.

If your plants don't turn red, re-check your CO2 levels and either reduce your feeding or change the water more often.


----------



## Yoni_S (May 17, 2010)

got it 
what youre saying is that if the plants get red color then dose NO3 back to 20PPM
(how often?), then reduce it slowly trough water changes
CO2 i have enough i check with API testing kit and will buy drop checker next month


but if plants get the red color and the NO3 stands still at 10PPM why sould they starve?


----------



## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

API CO2 tests and any like them (titration) are inaccurate; a little splashing around gasses off all the CO2 that you added to the water in the tank.

A drop checker will be helpful though.


Dose back to your regular schedule long enough to build the plants reserves up; a couple of weeks perhaps. The plants will go green again. From there, start lowering slowly.


----------



## Yoni_S (May 17, 2010)

why not continue dosing nitrate 10PPM 
PO4 2PPM 
what do you mean starve the plants?
what will happen if i dont raise back?


----------



## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

You could go back to 10ppm I suppose. You may already be at red-levels with 10ppm depending on nutrients stored in the plant. The idea is more to assure red will happen to save time rather than slowly reducing if there are underlying issues preventing red. 

Starting from what may already be limiting amounts of NO3 after going through reserves isn't a good idea. Starting from non-limiting (all the NO3 it wants) helps to prevent leaf damage. This is only a precaution; it is not essential. Most experiments in scientific journals start from non-limiting and move to limiting for tests like these.


----------



## Yoni_S (May 17, 2010)

its been 10 days and still 
my NO3 is at 10PPM and changed lights

im still looking for what else can i do

anyone?


----------



## jdigiorgio (Jan 29, 2004)

What is your current PO4 level?


----------



## Yoni_S (May 17, 2010)

it moves between 1-2 PPM


----------



## Chaac (Apr 10, 2010)

Allright,firts, Hi everybody I´m new in this forum but anyway.Sounds pretty good idea to lower the NO3 , but what if I have glosoestigma that likes "a lot"of this nutirent, will it be ok to lower it from 15ppm to 10ppm with out afecting the glosso?


----------



## plamski (Oct 27, 2009)

I have good result with reds only after NO3 5-10PPM and replacing 2x bulbs 6700K with colormax bulbs.I have total 5 bulbs.When we talk about algae free tank with 10PPM NO3 you have to have no more than 0.6-0.8 PPM PO4.


----------



## Yoni_S (May 17, 2010)

Chaac said:


> Allright,firts, Hi everybody I´m new in this forum but anyway.Sounds pretty good idea to lower the NO3 , but what if I have glosoestigma that likes "a lot"of this nutirent, will it be ok to lower it from 15ppm to 10ppm with out afecting the glosso?


i also have glosostigma and have no problem 
i also adding twice as much iron,micro and KCL then thr recommened dose


----------



## Yoni_S (May 17, 2010)

plamski said:


> I have good result with reds only after NO3 5-10PPM and replacing 2x bulbs 6700K with colormax bulbs.I have total 5 bulbs.When we talk about algae free tank with 10PPM NO3 you have to have no more than 0.6-0.8 PPM PO4.


i currently have 2 grolux bulb and 4 6700K osram bulbs 
i raised my no3 to 15 PPM and added ammano sticks to the substrate, hope it will help


----------



## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

Yoni S,

How tall is your tank?


----------



## Yoni_S (May 17, 2010)

60 cm tall


----------



## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

Yoni_S said:


> 60 cm tall


It's always challenging to achieve reds in deep tanks. I'm not saying it's not possible by tweaking things here and there, but stronger light is always the most direct and obvious path to deep reds.

I've grown very red plants in new setups with aquasoil which is loaded with N when height isn't an issue.


----------



## Yoni_S (May 17, 2010)

i have aquasoil amazonia 1 and 2 and i added ammano sticks


----------



## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

How long has the tank been setup?


----------



## Yoni_S (May 17, 2010)

its 7 months old
i will write a jornual soon as i get the time (its tests time at the uni)


----------

