# Can't find SMS/Turface?



## El Exorcisto (Aug 10, 2006)

A lot of people have issues finding SMS or Turface. I stopped by Autozone today and picked up a 40lb bag of Thrifty-Sorb which is, you guessed it, SMS Charcoal. Since Autozone and similar stores are a lot more common than Lescos or Turface distributors, this might help out quite a few people.


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## F1_Cobra (Nov 8, 2009)

Really?......That'd be great cause we do have an AutoZone in our little community.....I've used Oil-Dry which is who makes the SMS I believe, and it works ok....its a little light weight for my liking but not bad....I've been wanting to try the SMS but have been unable to find any. How much was that bag you got?


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## El Exorcisto (Aug 10, 2006)

$6 for 40 lbs... It's all the same product, SMS/Oil-Dri/Turface/Thrifty-Sorb. I just didn't know the color was as readily available as it appears to be. The red and tan varieties just dont do it for me like the charcoal color.


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## Bunnie1978 (Sep 29, 2009)

I found some Oil-Dry - it's a fine granular thing, but I'm wondering if it's as dark as I'm wanting. Well, it's $13 at Autozone, so I guess I'll go get it and see. There's always somewhere to put it.


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## Rastan71 (Oct 18, 2009)

Do you have any pictures of this either dry or wet?


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## MotionInsilver (Oct 19, 2009)

Which ones are supposed to be like ADA amazon's aquasoil? 

Reasoning: to lower the KH/PH in my water parameters as have alot soft water fish I would love to try it before shelling out 50 bucks just to start out in my tanks.


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## El Exorcisto (Aug 10, 2006)

Rastan, here is my 10 gallon with it:










MotionInsilver: put some peat under you substrate and you will get the same effect that amazonia gives you, in exactly the same way. They both release tanins into the water and facilitate organic breakdown, causing acids to build in the system.


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## MotionInsilver (Oct 19, 2009)

El Exorcisto said:


> Rastan, here is my 10 gallon with it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


going to be making a stop at autozone! where can i find it in the autozone as I'm not a car saavy person what section would it be located at though? (and lowe's for the peat hopefully they'll have it out of season)


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## MotionInsilver (Oct 19, 2009)

how many times did you have to rinse this though?


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## El Exorcisto (Aug 10, 2006)

No rinse, just fill slowly. It was kind of cloudy so I used my Vortex to polish it, although it would have settled by the next morning. Just ask at the counter, they'll point you towards it. It's called Thrifty-Zorb or Oil-Dri.

Also check to see if your Lowes stocks Schultz Aquatic Plant Soil. It's a very similar product, just a nice chocolate brown. If it was available locally I would have definitely considered it.


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## Rastan71 (Oct 18, 2009)

Thank you Exorcisto for the pics. I will have to go by and see about getting a bag of it. Since I couldn't find any charcoal SMS or Turface, I went with aquariumplants.com re-bagged sms for my main aquarium. But I'm always up for finding a cheaper substitute for other aquariums.


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## El Exorcisto (Aug 10, 2006)

Ouch, their prices are just ABSURD.


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## bosmahe1 (May 14, 2005)

The only problem with those products is that it is so light, that a slight disturbance will make a pit in the substrate and probably release the peat everywhere. I did use the Homedepot product for about two years and then it started disintegrating. I personally prefer Flourite, it costs alot more but, it's more long term. It's heavier so it doesn't blow everywhere and it hasn't disintegrated on me in 5 years. It's a PITA when setting up with all the rinsing but, I don't vaccuum it out except maybe the very top and it grows crypts very well. Flourite and fish poop is the only substrate I use. I do dose IE in the water column.

If I set up a second tank again, I would try the Oil Dri in a heart beat though. It's just you have to be more careful and patient than I am normally.


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## El Exorcisto (Aug 10, 2006)

I have a layer of about 1/2" of organic soil under my TZ, but my TZ ranges from 1/2" deep to 4" in the back right. I don't foresee peat all over the place. I've avoided it in my 55 with an inch of organic soil and an inch of sand.


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## Daniil (Oct 30, 2009)

What about using horticultural charcoal mixed in a first layer of the substrate?


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## El Exorcisto (Aug 10, 2006)

I don't know what it would do for you. I like the thrifty-zorb for all the reasons everyone else likes the same product under the same name. If you feel like adding some charcoal to your dirt, by all means.


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## Bunnie1978 (Sep 29, 2009)

I've been doing a test with Oil dri in a 10g - it's a dark tan color, lighter than Flourite Dark, and about half the grain size. However, my PH plummetted. It is also very lightweight.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Bunnie1978,

Yes, Turface Pro League Grey and SMS Charcoal are lighter and less dark (about medium grey) than Flourite. It does drop your PH and KH as well because initially it absorbs most of the nutrients out of the water. Baking Soda will raise you PH if you need it higher. This stuff sure does grow plants for me though!


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## Bunnie1978 (Sep 29, 2009)

Should I do anything about this? I only have a PH test kit, and it was reading 6.0, but the test doesn't go lower than that.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi Bunnie1978,

I try to provide water parameters that the fish need first, then the plants. For example if I was keeping African Cichlids in my tank I would certainly bring the PH and hardness up substantially. If I was keeping South American Tetras, or other fish that need soft acid water I probably would do much if anything. I try to keep my dKH at about 2.0 to 4.0 and my PH about 6.2. I just set up a 30 gallon with SMS Charcoal about 3 weeks ago and the only thing I have added is a little Seachem Equilibrium to bring up the hardness. The PH is still 6.0 today.


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## El Exorcisto (Aug 10, 2006)

Or dont worry about it? Aquarium guys love their test kits. I ran out of pH reagent four years ago and haven't thought to get any more. When that happened I stopped testing everything, and my plants and fish still look great, if not better than they did before.


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## Garon (Mar 22, 2005)

This information has been great. Thank you! I recently starting lurking this site and I was not aware of any of these products. I have always used Eco-Complete (with great results), but it can get quite pricey. I am definately not opposed to finding cheaper ways to experiment.


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## El Exorcisto (Aug 10, 2006)

Aquarium-grade anything costs way more than commercial grade everything. That's why I use a substrate from Autozone, a CO2 regulator from Harbor Freight, and a needle valve/lights/bulbs from Lowes. If I could find a glass box used for something besides an aquarium, I'd probably switch to that as well.


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## Bunnie1978 (Sep 29, 2009)

@Seattle Aquarist - 
Thanks. I have mostly community tanks, and don't really research the fish much. I do have one Cichlid tank though. I left it pretty much the way it came (sand substrate) and the PH is 7.8, but the fish look fine to me. When I'm ready to look at breeding them, I might figure it out then, see if they need anything different. I don't have much of a plan for each tank, but I like to be able to swap fish around without acclimating. I run 6.6 on all my tanks with Flourite, 7.2 on all the ones with pea gravel. It's always pretty stable in those. I would like to have not as much of a difference since most of the fish I keep are pretty tolerant. I'm going to move all the pea gravel out and replace with the Flourite that's coming out of the tank I'll be putting the Oil-Dri in permanently. So, if I can manage the Oil-Dri at a higher PH some way without alot of fluctuations, then I have more flexibility to move around my fish when needs arise. Like when my pleco has eggs and such.


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## El Exorcisto (Aug 10, 2006)

You'll play hell keeping Oil-Dri at high pH. It sucks carbonate from the water like a crackhead sucks down a rock...


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## kvntran (Nov 9, 2007)

Hi all,

Any info on how long the pH lowering capability will last? if it keeps lowering pH for a long time, it can be good for many applications.


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## MotionInsilver (Oct 19, 2009)

Found alot of stuff and is it normal for oil-dri to have sandy color to it- tan-ish hue to it and its fine as grade S sand in my opinion? Is that the correct stuff?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi MotionInsilver,

Soilmaster Select Charcoal and Turface Pro League Grey are about the same color, here is a link to the Turface Pro League colors, I like Grey. Which color is the Oil-Dri?


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## MotionInsilver (Oct 19, 2009)

it looks more of that brown on the left, however its not that uniform as theres specks of white or gray into it as well

plus it has a very fine feel to it as its very small grained like a sand one would walk on the beach barefooted.


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## MotionInsilver (Oct 19, 2009)

the one I have is the quicksorb version out of 20 lb pail 
http://www.oildri.net/Gran_QuickSorb.html


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## El Exorcisto (Aug 10, 2006)

Mine is Thrifty-Zorb, and it is substantially coarser than sand, more a small gravel. It's a charcoal grey color with a few pieces of red speckled throughout, but very few.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi MotionInsilver,

Quicksorb is a "Fuller's earth" product per the MSDS and is not a "Heat Treated Montmorillonite Clay Mineral" like Turface or Oil-Dri.

I would be concerned that Quicksorb may be too fine a grain. This could cause cloudy water and/or poor root growth due to grain size. The product could also become mud-like since it does not seem to be heat treated. I certainly would test it before trying to set up an aquarium with it.


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## MotionInsilver (Oct 19, 2009)

autozone didn't have anything other than that brand of quick sorb oil dri and other brands from "moltan" which had many selections and I was wary of those but I will try to go to another auto store tomorrow as there are two different chain stores by my house as well too besides autozone.


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## El Exorcisto (Aug 10, 2006)

Profile Aquatic Plant Soil is a Fuller's Earth product as well... It's a matter of grain size more than what it is made of. And from Wikipedia:

"Fuller's earth usually has a high magnesium oxide content. In the United States, two varieties of fuller's earth are mined, mainly in the southeastern states. These comprise the minerals *montmorillonite *or palygorskite (attapulgite) or a mixture of the two; some of the other minerals that may be present in fuller's earth deposits are calcite, dolomite, and quartz."

So they are both montmorillonite clay.


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## Bunnie1978 (Sep 29, 2009)

The quicksorb is a fine gravel, the regular is more like cat litter size grains. It can be tan or grey, depending on which mine it comes from.


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## Bunnie1978 (Sep 29, 2009)

Fullers Earth is a synonym for Montmorillinite clay. Quicksorb is just a finer grain size than the regular Oil-Dri. All Oil Dri type products are heat treated, but the higher temperature treating is what leads to a longer lifespan in the aquarium. SMS/Turface are heated at a higher temperature, which is why they are so much darker than the Oil-Dri products. Also, "Oil Dry" is used in the auto industry as a generic term for absorbant material. There is also an Oil-Dri brand, which is what I have, and I believe we have been talking about. All this info comes straight from the company, as I spent days tracking down people all over trying to get SMS.

@Motionsilver - GO TO WALMART. They carry a 25lb bag of Oil-Dri in the auto section. In my town it was $3.50


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## MotionInsilver (Oct 19, 2009)

thanks guys: 

since its basically the same thing but heated lower temp it won't last long however it won't bother me if it becomes mudlike. I'm gonna be using this in my nano setups which more likely will not have any fish in it due to high temp swings in some spots in the house next to the window. 

Low tech!


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## MotionInsilver (Oct 19, 2009)

plus I'm going to hold off until the landscape supply becomes more active in the late winter-early spring then go over there and get a bag of turface.


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