# KNO3 & CaNO3



## kekon (Aug 1, 2005)

The most popular source of NO3 i KNO3. It seems to me it would be good thing to dose NO3 from KNO3 and CaNO3 in order to control amounts of K more precisely. Of course I don't have to be right but maybe someone of you has some experiences concerning CaNO3 as a source of NO3.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

I've never used it. I think there are 2 reasons that KNO3 is so popular. While not exactly for sale in every grocery store, it isn't too hard to find and it's cheap. Also, an abundance of K (within reason) doesn't seem to hurt anyting.

Adding CaNO3 would obviously increase the GH of the water which is already high enough for many people. Also, unless you add Mg too, the Ca/Mg ratio would be affected (but maybe only slightly) with every dosing.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Hi
You don’t need to be afraid of K, plants will use it. 
I have used CaNO3 for some time. The target was Ca supply at that time. After several months the outcome was obvious. 

The usually red plants I had grew only green in CaNO3. The majority of the green plants grew very well accept few that died. They didn’t like the combination I guess.

After returning back to K2SO4, KNO3, KH2PO4, MgSO4 and CaCl2 diet the plants looked healthy again.

Edward


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

As Edward mentioned, the main problem with CaNO3 is it adds too much nitrate.. Approx. 20 ppm nitrate for every dGH increase. So for example if you raise Gh by 3 dGH using CaNO3 you add 60 ppm of nitrates.


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## kekon (Aug 1, 2005)

Well, I have to tell you my "planted tank history". At the beginning I used tap water mixed with distilled water in 1:1 ratio. GH and KH of the tap water is about 14 and 10 respectively (Ca = 70 ppm, Mg = 9.5 ppm), so after mixing with disstilled one it was 7 and 5. Almost all the plants grew quite well. At last I bought and installed RO filter and it became a water source for my tank (only RO water, no mixing with tap water). To mineralize RO water I use a mixture produced in Polland and called "Hydro Mineral". It consists Ca, Mg, very little K, and Na. The producer recommended doses are 2ml / 8L. Using such doses GH = 3..4 and KH = 3..4 as well. Ca = 13 ppm, Mg = 4ppm, K = 2 ppm. Ca comes probably from CaCO3, Mg from MgSO4, Na from NaHCO3. When I started to use "Hydro Mineral" I didn't notice slower plants growth but Rotala Rotundifolia had more more stunted tips. I didn't care about it and simply cut stunted ones (new healthy tips grew quite quickly). Together with traces I dosed macro nutrients NPK in ready to use solution (made by the same producer) called "Planta Gainer Macro". It consists K, PO4 and N. The form of N is a big mistery for people in Poland, but we suspect it is in NH4, NH2, urea or organic form. Plants grew very well but there were some hair algae - most probably caused by N form - NH4. When I was told about it I made my mind to use separate KNO3 and KH2PO4 to achieve 10 ppm NO3 and 1 ppm PO4. So I began to dose KNO3 and KH2PO4. I achieved NO3 = 10 and PO4 = 1 within 4..5 days. Some algae disappeared. I was quite happy with that but my happines was premature. Suddenly the plant growth of all the plants was stunted. Most of Umbrosum leafs bacame "burned", small and curled. Even undemanding plants such as Hygrophila Polysperma, Limnophila became "ill". I didn't know what was going on. I was told the cause was a potassium excess. So I took some water from my tank and brought it to a laboratory and told them to measure K level. The measurements showed it was 27,2 ppm of K. I was also told too much K causes Mg and Ca Deficency. I did two water changes in course of two days, first 40%, second - 50% to get rid of potassium. During the next week I was also dosing KNO3 but in smaller amounts - and I achieved about 2.5 ppm NO3 at the end of the week. I noticed some improvements in plants growth: cabomba caroliniana and Limnophila began to grow very fast. Umbrosum looked a bit better but it is still far from perfect. Also, it seemed like it was Fe deficency. Many leafs turned very light-green. Alternatera Reineckii also responded to K excess - new leafs look as if they were burned, curled, stunted and deformed horribly. Everything look like Ca or Mg deficency (too much K causes it). That's why I was thinking about using CaNO3 together with KNO3 as a source of NO3 in order not to achieve K accumulation. I know many people use large amounts of KNO3 (having high K levels) without any problems concerning K surplus but in my tank it just doesn't work. Maybe K is not the case but everything tells me it is just K.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

You may be right about the K, but there are other possibilities as well. The biggest problem with reconstituted RO is that there is a potential to miss an essential nutrient. Why not stick with your original tap water? Plenty of people do just fine with a GH/KH of 14/10. If you must have it lower, then mix tap and RO 50/50. I'd then recommend KNO3, KH2PO4, a good micro mix, supplemental Fe, and if you thought it was low - maybe MgSO4.

Also, make changes slowly. Give the plants a week or maybe even 2 to really see a difference. If you don't, you'll be chasing your tail trying to figure it out.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Hi
Your problem is not excess of K. 
This is why. While dosing more K and NO3 by KNO3 your plants started taking more of the other nutrients. You are too low on one or more nutrients now. 

We dose K2SO4 with KNO3 increasing K even further with balanced fertilizing program like PPS. NO3 uptake increases with K2SO4 addition at moderate levels.

You should stop using the Hydro Mineral if there is no label stating exact contents. Using RO gives you the greatest opportunity to grow anything you want. Dose 20 ppm of Ca by CaCl2. Then dose baking soda to maintain desired pH between 5 and 6. That’s it. 

Then dosing daily SS, PF, Mg solutions, quantity depending on your aquarium size and little of Trace elements mix will solve the problem.

Edward


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Salt said:


> As Edward mentioned, the main problem with CaNO3 is it adds too much nitrate.. Approx. 20 ppm nitrate for every dGH increase. So for example if you raise Gh by 3 dGH using CaNO3 you add 60 ppm of nitrates.


No, that is not what I said. I said that CaNO3 grows red plants into green plants and some plants even die. In this experiment the CaNO3 was the only source of Ca in the water column.

Edward


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

Edward said:


> I said that CaNO3 grows red plants into green plants and some plants even die. In this experiment the CaNO3 was the only source of Ca in the water column.


Red plants will turn green when nitrates are high. If CaNO3 was the only source of calcium, nitrates would have been _exceptionally_ high, which wouldn't suprise me at all if it killed some plants. Not sure what you are refuting?


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## kekon (Aug 1, 2005)

Thank you for great help. I think deficiency concerns Ca or/and Mg in Hydro Mineral or incorrect ratio between them. (for example, Sagitaria has some white spots on its leafs)
I'll take some photos of my plants and present them here. I'm not going to use Hydro Mineral any longer. I will be reporting changes that will occur in my tank.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Sounds like a good plan. It's always better to know exactly what's going in the tank.


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## kekon (Aug 1, 2005)

1. - 07.03.2006 - Almost all the snails died (most probably from Ca/Mg 
deficiency; before KNO3 was introduced and CO2 increased from about 
10 to 22 ppm there were some snails but not too many)
- ordered CaCl2, & CaSO4
- added an extra Hydro Mineral dose to increase Ca & Mg levels (before I 
get CaCl2 and CaSO4 I'm very curious what will happen after adding 
double dose of Hydro Mineral - now this mixure is the only source of Ca  
& Mg ) 

I have to adjust the camara (unfortunately It's not mine but borrowed)
because the plants photo I've taken is very poor quality. Anyway, Alteranatera Reineckii, Cardamine Lyrata, Umbrosum still have curled and deformed leafs. Cabomba Caroliniana and Limnophila grow very fast and so does Anubias barteri var. nana. Light-green leafs color still exists.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Salt said:


> Red plants will turn green when nitrates are high. If CaNO3 was the only source of calcium, nitrates would have been _exceptionally_ high, which wouldn't suprise me at all if it killed some plants. Not sure what you are refuting?


Is 20 ppm NO3 exceptionally high?


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

Edward said:


> Is 20 ppm NO3 exceptionally high?


You only had 1 dGH from calcium?


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Half a degree.


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

Ah, I see. Isn't that a little soft?


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## kekon (Aug 1, 2005)

Here's a picture of Allternatera Reineckii. As one can see, It is "ill"


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Hi
You have several problems there. The best approach would be to change all the water and start fresh. What if you tell us what you know about your tap, what chemicals you have available and we create a dosing program for you.

Edward


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## kekon (Aug 1, 2005)

Well, I use only RO water and add double dose of commercial "Hydro Mineral" mixture - epspecially produced to reconstitute pure RO water. When dosed in producer recommended doses, one obtains: 13 ppm Ca, 4 ppm Mg, KH = 3..4 and GH = 3..4. Ca Comes from CaCO3, Mg from MgSO4. I doubled the recommended dose to have higher amounts of Ca and Mg.
The problem with Alternatera Reineckii began after dosing very high amounts of Fe. At the same time lots of hair algae appeared. Some symptomps of such curled and deformed leafs appeared when I started to use KNO3 and KH2PO4 (during dosing KNO3 Ca was 13 ppm and Mg was 4 ppm). Problems began after reaching K level at 27.2 ppm. 
Now I have (after changing 50% of water and not dosing any ferts)

0.1 ppm PO4
1..2 ppm NO3
PH: 6.6
GH: 5.5
KH: 3.5
Ca: about 26 ppm (from CaCO3)
Mg: about 8 ppm

I'm waiting for ordered CaSO4, CaCl2, CaCO3 in order to reconstitute RO water by myself (I don't want to use "Hydro Mineral" any more)


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## kekon (Aug 1, 2005)

Traces come from Polish fertilizer (500 ml bottle) which consists: (measured in laboratory):

Fe 2100 ppm
Mn 1240 ppm
B 140 ppm
Zn 150 ppm
Cu 80 ppm
Mo <1 ppm

Tank capacity is 200 liters. I began to dose 6ml daily of the fertilizer at the beginning of the week. After 4 days of dosing - the problems described above began. The fertilizer I use consists huge amounts of Fe and as I was said, the problems I have concern Fe excess. Additionally I don't have an idea why so many leafs are very light-green although I dosed so much Fe.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Hi
We don't want to over fertilize because changing RO water is not easy. We need to maintain proper levels continuously.

To use PPS successfully in 100% RO water you need also K2SO4 and MgSO4 with KNO3, KH2PO4, CaSO4, CaCl2 and baking soda. Dose SS, PF, Mg and TE solutions daily according to this table. After the first week test for NO3 and PO4. Double the daily dosage if bellow recommended level.

Then we have GH. The GH we dose once after water change to 20-30 ppm Ca by dry Discus Mix. Every few weeks we test Ca and if low we add more of the Discus Mix. There is no CaCO3. Additionally, you can dose little baking soda if you want higher pH. It is optional. Most fish and plants don't care about pH in low KH water.

Once you follow this routine for minimum three weeks, you can experiment with trace elements. Until then an equivalent of 0.1 ppm Fe daily is plenty.

You can read about the method in the PPS articles.

Edward

(For now, add enough KNO3 and KH2PO4 to 10-20 ppm NO3 and 0.5-2 ppm PO4.)


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## kekon (Aug 1, 2005)

Well, after increasing Ca and Mg most of Alternatera Reineckii leafs are no longer deformed. The same thing concerns Hygrophila Polysperma.
New leafs grow nice and healthy. But many Umbrossum leafs are still "burned", small and curled. Rotala Rotundifolia grows very slow and its leafs are green


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