# Walstad method subreddit!



## JoanToBa (Aug 23, 2018)

Hi! While browsing reddit I found out there weren't any Walstad method or dirted tank subreddits, so I created one called r/walstad.

Check it out here: https://np.reddit.com/r/walstad/


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## Dude (Nov 14, 2018)

I've never been a fan of reddit's format. Regular forums like this feel better suited to discussion. In my opinion, anyway. 



Still, I'm surprised there wasn't already a subreddit on this topic.


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## JoanToBa (Aug 23, 2018)

Dude said:


> I've never been a fan of reddit's format. Regular forums like this feel better suited to discussion. In my opinion, anyway.
> 
> Still, I'm surprised there wasn't already a subreddit on this topic.


I agree that for informative purposes, a forum like this is much better, but reddit is more about being in the community and participating as you want than just asking question or posting journals.

I'm in both, so I get the nice things about both &#128513;


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

While I'm loyal to APC, I don't particularly care what other social platforms people use. Thanks for your help in publicizing my ideas!


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

Dude said:


> I've never been a fan of reddit's format. Regular forums like this feel better suited to discussion. In my opinion, anyway.
> 
> Still, I'm surprised there wasn't already a subreddit on this topic.


same


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## JoanToBa (Aug 23, 2018)

dwalstad said:


> While I'm loyal to APC, I don't particularly care what other social platforms people use. Thanks for your help in publicizing my ideas!


That's the least I can do after saving me many hours in water changes lol


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## mysiak (Jan 17, 2018)

JoanToBa said:


> That's the least I can do after saving me many hours in water changes lol


This is probably the only point where I do not fully agree with Ms. Walstad. From nitrogen waste cycle point of view it's spot on. However it omits other wastes produced by livestock (hormones etc.) or plants, which to my understanding can be removed only/mainly by water changes. Depending on the water hardness etc., mineral content might get depleted and infrequent large water changes could cause shock to fish ("old tank syndrome").

I perform small ~10% weekly water changes in my NPT despite of close to zero NO3 in the tank water. Adding colder fresh water also simulates rain and can provoke spawning/breeding in fish or just more active behavior.

Just my 2 cents..


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## JoanToBa (Aug 23, 2018)

mysiak said:


> JoanToBa said:
> 
> 
> > That's the least I can do after saving me many hours in water changes lol
> ...


Interesting point! I agree that it's better to be safe than sorry


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

mysiak said:


> This is probably the only point where I do not fully agree with Ms. Walstad. From nitrogen waste cycle point of view it's spot on. However it omits other wastes produced by livestock (hormones etc.) or plants, which to my understanding can be removed only/mainly by water changes. Depending on the water hardness etc., mineral content might get depleted and infrequent large water changes could cause shock to fish ("old tank syndrome").
> 
> I perform small ~10% weekly water changes in my NPT despite of close to zero NO3 in the tank water. Adding colder fresh water also simulates rain and can provoke spawning/breeding in fish or just more active behavior.
> 
> Just my 2 cents..


+1 agree


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## stefant (Jan 7, 2018)

I think you need to get to know your tank and your water hardness, and what that means with regard to how often you need to do water changes. I'd like to know for how long hormones are stable in an aquarium. If they deteriorate quickly, they may not be a problem.


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## mysiak (Jan 17, 2018)

As I see it, water change in a small tank takes about 10 minutes. Getting to know your tank will take several weeks/months and is often subject to change due to unstable conditions inside or outside of the tank. Just a change in the type of food, amount of food or feeding pattern will impact the conditions. There might be tens/hundreds/thousands of different byproducts, with unknown properties, especially when they built up in concentration or when they're combined. I believe that no such complex study exists, so it's extremely hard to predict what will happen. I seriously doubt that any of us has anything else than just the basic testing kit at home. Those tell next to nothing about the environment and different interactions. 

Human hormones (from contraceptive pills) are pretty stable, they get into streams and negatively impact fish. Natural fish hormones can and do cause stunted or slower growth of fry etc. No idea about their stability though, but that was just an example of a byproduct which most probably doesn't just disappear from the tank.

You might get away with no water changes for months or years and have a very nice and successful tank. But more probably you'll spend a significant amount of time "sometime later" along the road to fix things, just because you saved 10 minutes per week.. IMHO, totally not worth it. But as almost with everything, YMMV


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## stefant (Jan 7, 2018)

It makes sense what you are saying. I adjust my method over time but for the time being I don't want to do water changes often. It's not possible to test for everything but it's possible to observe plants and fish and get a general idea about how things are going. Thanks for your input.


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## Dude (Nov 14, 2018)

mysiak said:


> You might get away with no water changes for months or years and have a very nice and successful tank.


I've seen tanks with no filter or plants go 5 years with no water changes. The only deaths (presumably) due to old age. The bottom of the tank was several inches thick with all kinds of muck. The owner of the tank didn't even know he still had catfish in there. It went through periods where the muck on the bottom became covered in a white film that eventually went away. The water was usually pretty clear. About a year and a half ago when I really started getting into this hobby I cleaned it all up and got a filter for it. It looks a lot better now of course.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

mysiak said:


> This is probably the only point where I do not fully agree with Ms. Walstad. From nitrogen waste cycle point of view it's spot on. However it omits other wastes produced by livestock (hormones etc.) or plants, which to my understanding can be removed only/mainly by water changes. Depending on the water hardness etc., mineral content might get depleted and infrequent large water changes could cause shock to fish ("old tank syndrome").
> [/QUOTE
> 
> One definition of a "tipping point" is that point at which the addition off one more unit of a substance causes a significant change. When one more grain of salt is added to a solution, all of a sudden the entire solutions hardens. When the temperature of water rises from 211 degrees to 212, the water starts to boil. Xrays cause cancer but millions are given every day without harm. There are many examples.
> ...


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

mysiak said:


> This is probably the only point where I do not fully agree with Ms. Walstad. From nitrogen waste cycle point of view it's spot on. However it omits other wastes produced by livestock (hormones etc.) or plants, which to my understanding can be removed only/mainly by water changes. Depending on the water hardness etc., mineral content might get depleted and infrequent large water changes could cause shock to fish ("old tank syndrome").
> 
> I perform small ~10% weekly water changes in my NPT despite of close to zero NO3 in the tank water. Adding colder fresh water also simulates rain and can provoke spawning/breeding in fish or just more active behavior.
> 
> Just my 2 cents..


Just to add another 2 cents - we only need one more cent to be able to buy a .....anything? My opinion has long been that if you want to have the same success that Ms Walstad has with her tanks you need to either follow all of her instructions in her book, or you need to so fully understand why her method works so well that you can make changes knowing that you aren't upsetting the whole applecart.

I don't have that understanding, but I also prefer the higher light, more "artificial" ways of having a nice aquarium, so I don't use her method. I rarely, if ever, have found that something in her book is just incorrect. When I have believed that I found something that is incorrect, I have always found out later that I was wrong. (I'm used to being wrong at times, so it doesn't really bother me. I'm still having fun with this hobby.)


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## mysiak (Jan 17, 2018)

I'm not saying that it's incorrect per se, just that there is a higher chance for a success with small changes to the method (like regular water changes), especially for beginners. My understanding of her instructions is that partial water changes are not necessary, but aren't in the "forbidden" area either. 

IMHO, with so many variables (dirt, artificial and natural lightning conditions, temperature, water chemistry,..) it's better to try to understand what book says and apply the knowledge to your conditions, not just blindly follow the instructions/recommendations. Book helps tremendously to understand what's going on in the tank. But it isn't a cook book after all and if I remember correctly, it was one of Ms. Walstad's message too.

Book got some updates recently about lightning (and before that about water movement I believe), so maybe partial water changes will get a revision in the future too..


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## DutchMuch (Apr 12, 2017)

after reading your quote their mysiak, i must agree.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

mysiak said:


> I'm not saying that it's incorrect per se, just that there is a higher chance for a success with small changes to the method (like regular water changes), especially for beginners. My understanding of her instructions is that partial water changes are not necessary, but aren't in the "forbidden" area either.
> 
> IMHO, with so many variables (dirt, artificial and natural lightning conditions, temperature, water chemistry,..) it's better to try to understand what book says and apply the knowledge to your conditions, not just blindly follow the instructions/recommendations. Book helps tremendously to understand what's going on in the tank. But it isn't a cook book after all and if I remember correctly, it was one of Ms. Walstad's message too.
> 
> Book got some updates recently about lightning (and before that about water movement I believe), so maybe partial water changes will get a revision in the future too..


I don't disagree with this. My comment was triggered by several years of reading forum posts about people who say they are using the Walstad method, but are clearly using a hybrid of several methods. I think when a method is thoroughly explained with a book, it isn't correct to say you are using that method without actually using that method. Of course all of us are doing nothing wrong by deviating from any method - it is a hobby, not a religious rite


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## mysiak (Jan 17, 2018)

I see your point @hoppycalif. I guess that Ms. Walstad is the best judge here and maybe will be so kind to share her point of view on regular partial water changes with her method 

Btw. any chance to move this interesting discussion to a separate topic? It might get more attention and responses.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

mysiak said:


> Btw. any chance to move this interesting discussion to a separate topic? It might get more attention and responses.


Yes, simply start a new thread with an explanatory title. If you want to move specific posts from this thread to the new one, just ask and Hoppy or I can do it.


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