# Why no female dwarf gouramis?



## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Why can't I find female dwarf gouramis around here? Is it just because the males have the nice colors? Could it be because they are too aggressive with ladies about? Three stores had none, but tanks full of males.


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## ranchwest (Jul 17, 2005)

When the in-bred varieties of dwarf gouramis started appearing years ago, the females were no longer available. It is my understanding that you can breed any female to a colored-up variety and get colored-up offspring. So, apparently breeders quit offering the females to keep anyone from breeding to their colored-up fish.

Seems to me that anyone offering females would have nearly the whole market on females.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

The females can be ordered from more serious hobbyists, but as you stated, part of is is because they aren't as colorful so people don't buy them as often.

And like ranchwest said, with all of the in-breeding or manipulating to get better colors, the strain was weakened and you generally won't find the true form in the general market anymore. It's sad, but the trend many of the stores are going these days.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

That is sad. I read about them, but this is the sort of thing they don't tell you on 'fish finders'. I feel bad not having a female in there for them, though I don't think I want to do all the breeding work. I'll probably try to find a source for the next upgrade: Mail-order fish brides.


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## Six (May 29, 2006)

I'm not sure why you wouldn't just use a female of a less colorful varient? You could breed in some hardiness (if breeding was indeed your intention) albeit you'd lose some color. The color is unnatural anyways, so no big loss. 
The color varients are just color forms of the wild type- you can breed them back and it would be cheaper and easier to find females locally. My LFS carries them and the color morphs.


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## discusnuts (Apr 2, 2008)

the lfs i work for carries male and female dwarf gouramis but the females are ugly they have no real color to them 
check us out www.fishfishfish.biz


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## BruceWatts (Mar 1, 2008)

Well before all the "neon" colors where around Dwarf Gouramis were always sold in pairs. Even though the females are plain looking I always bought a pair or two because I like breeding my own fish. When the fancy colors came out they simply stopped shipping females. 
Personally I find the wild type males very attractive and prefer them to the much less hardy asian raised "neons".

Bruce


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

You may think this is odd, but I don't really need to breed them, I just want to keep them happy. It's fine if I end up with fry, but I just think they might be happier with some females. And I don't care if they aren't very pretty, I like their personalities. Right now I can only get two girls, I don't want to be overstocked. 
Six- could you PM me with the LFS that has them, so I could get some next time I'm in the area. We are in the same aquatic plant enthusiasts club.


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## ranchwest (Jul 17, 2005)

JanS said:


> The females can be ordered from more serious hobbyists, but as you stated, part of is is because they aren't as colorful so people don't buy them as often.
> 
> And like ranchwest said, with all of the in-breeding or manipulating to get better colors, the strain was weakened and you generally won't find the true form in the general market anymore. It's sad, but the trend many of the stores are going these days.


Actually, what I was saying is that many stores don't offer any color variety females and it doesn't have to do with strength of the strains. It has to do with breeders not releasing their females, of any variety. It isn't the stores that are doing this.

Personally, I feel that if you don't see the interaction between male and female then you don't get the full understanding of the specie.

I suppose there must be a few breeders offering females because some people are reporting that their LFS frequently has females.

When I see the male and female together, I find the female to be attractive -- obviously not as colorful as the male, but together they provide color variety.


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## BruceWatts (Mar 1, 2008)

When the neon dwarf gouramis first appeared in the hobby their was some speculation that the lack of females was due to the fact that they were being injected with hormones that made them look like they were males. This was fueled by the fact that some of the males didn't seem capable of breeding.

I remember an article about this in TFH called something like "planned breeding breakdown of the neon dwarf gourami". It was about 30 years ago so I will see if I can find it in my collection. 

I remember the article because at the time I was trying and not succeeding in breeding the Neons. I finally found a wild caught pair and everything went smoothly. I was specializing in the Anabantoids at the time and was having good success with several species. Being a fish breeder I have always avoided the neon dwarfs since then. 

Bruce


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

It makes me sad to see and hear about so many unscrupulous breeders. We all know they are out there, I just keep hoping people will stop buying from them as they are revealed. I just want to enjoy healthy, active fish. I also like to see them interact as naturally as possible. I saw some goof on eBay selling what he calls "tattooed mollies" that look to have been injected with multiple dyes. Awful. The ones that survive this probably die after a week in the tank. Off topic, sorry. I hadn't heard of the hormones with the dwarf neon gouramis, but I can't say I'm surprised.


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## nkambae (Nov 6, 2007)

It's not just the "unscrupulous breeders". If the LFS and Big Box stores didn't order them and push them, AND we didn't buy them in such huge numbers, they wouldn't be bred for sale. There is plenty of blame to go around. Just my not so humble opinion.

stu


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Just wanted to say that if you do get some females they will probably breed in your tank. I kept a pair of honey's for years. They would bite off tips of my plants and keep a bubble nest, continually laying in it. I would see the minute fry most anytime. They were in a community tank. None of the fry ever made it because they were sooooo small. It was fun to watch as long as I didn't mind the mass of detritus for their nest.


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## ranchwest (Jul 17, 2005)

nkambae said:


> It's not just the "unscrupulous breeders". If the LFS and Big Box stores didn't order them and push them, AND we didn't buy them in such huge numbers, they wouldn't be bred for sale. There is plenty of blame to go around. Just my not so humble opinion.
> 
> stu


It appears to me that demand exceeds supply.


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