# Have any of you RINSED Soilmaster Select?



## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

Hi all,

over the long weekend I tried to get started prepping materials to redo my 20 H. I got out the Soilmaster Select I'm going to use over a soil underlayer (little experimental, I'll keep a log). 

However, I usually rinse the coarse sand that will be the top layer, so I started rinsing the Soilmaster Select. WHEW! With only a few cups of it in the bottom of the bucket, it took a LONG time to rinse clean. Actually, it never did - I just gave up on it. If I added water gently, it would clear up/settle out quickly after awhile, but if I stirred it up with my hands, the runoff would be thick grey/brown. This was still the case 18 (yes, EIGHTEEN!) Rinse-Pour-Repeat cycles later! It was clearer, but still exuding "dust". 

Now on the product website, it touted itself as LOW dust, compared to competitive products. I even checked to make sure I wasn't just eroding the stuff away (which shouldn't be, it said it had a durability comparable to granite bits) by trying to grind it between my fingers. It held up OK.

So....... is it just "dust" that is coming out of the highly porous stuff for a long time? 

And if porosity is a good thing, is it worthwhile to rinse this stuff well? Once installed, I plan to leave this stuff be for about 2 or more years. Some soil underlayer tanks have gone three, and that would be fine. So I don't mind a big up-front investment of effort, if it makes sense. But it this is an excercise in futility, I'd rather not be doing all this.

What do you think? Have other folks tried to rinse this stuff? Has it caused cloudiness in your tank water?

Thanks for any and all input!
-Jane


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I rinsed mine by putting some in a 5 gallon bucket, running water through it while stirring it with my hand, pouring out the water and repeating. I did this about 5 or so times per bucket. The stuff is very dirty from the bag, generating brown water, even though mine is the charcoal variety. It never did get really clear water clean, but enough that I felt safe to use it. I didn't have any cloudiness to speak of when I filled the tank. Since it is manufactured to be used on baseball fields I doubt that they make any effort to keep it clean.


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## Jonesy (Jul 8, 2005)

Yes, this stuff is dusty!!! I rinsed mine using a kitchen sieve first to get rid of the bulk of the dust quickly (I cleaned the sieve before giving it back to my girlfriend  ) and then used the rinse-pour-repeat method. Even so I never got it completely clean. When I added water I messed up by pouring in to fast and resuspending a lot of dust. I added plants before everything settled and I ended up with a layer of fine dust on everything. I ended up pulling everthing up after a week and rinsing them down. Curiously replanting did not stir things up too much and I haven't had a problem with cloudiness since (been using soilmaster select about 5 months now) - and that includes breaking down the tank and moving houses (I was a lot more careful refilling the tank though so as not to stir everything up).


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

OK, Thanks! Good to know! Here I thought maybe I got a "bum" bag of the stuff. 

Also, thanks for the voice of experience so that I DON'T get totally obsessed with getting it clean. 

Reading through all the posts it seemed like folks were just plunking it in. One photo I saw mentioned the darker area where it was wet from added mulm. It looked like they added it dry. Did they not rinse it at all? It looked like they didn't. Given the loads of brown runoff, I couldn't imagine not rinsing it a few times, at least.

I'll bet bacteria colonize it pretty quickly and cut down on the "dust". 

Thanks again - I was getting hesitant about using the stuff!
-Jane


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

The best method I have found for rinsing any substrate material is to fill a 5 gal bucket 2/3-3/4 full and set the bucket on an angle so that water will run off one edge, say about 10 degrees. Then I turn the garden hose on medium and start filling the bucket with water. I use the hose to stir up the material, pushing the hose straight in and out of the material allowing the water flow to drill a path down through the material. This sort of fluidizes large areas of the particles and helps wash debris up and out of the bucket. Once the gravel is loosened up you can actually stir the material around with the hose. Try to work all the way to the bottom of the bucket. This sort of cleans it from the bottom up.

I have not tried this with Soilmaster yet but it turned out to be the best method for both Black Beauty and an old bag of Flourite Red I once used. This method seems faster than any other washing method. 5 minutes gives you about 3-4 gallons of well rinsed material. Generally I obsess on washing enough for a 1" layer (or 1 bucket full which ever is more) and rinse the rest only 75% as good. Use the cleanest stuff as a cap.

Good luck!


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Jane,

We went over substrates at the last NEAPS meeting. Several people commented that their SMS was quite dusty and took a bit of work to get clean. It's not just you. 

I second Dennis' method for washing substrate. I've always done it this way and it seems to be the fastest. IME, it isn't really necessary to get every last bit of dust out. In fact, the fine particles will have a large surface area to mass ratio, which will facilitate biochemical processes in the substrate. The real key is to fill the tank _GENTLY_ without disturbing the substrate at all. If you mess it up, just siphon it all out and start again. Even flourite stays prety clean if you're careful, but I still give mine a moderate rinse to help out.


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## Mjproost (Nov 17, 2005)

I agree with Guaiac...it is not necessary to get it perfectly clean. The last time I used the bulk of it unrinsed. I just filled the tank very slowly, then ran my HOT mag for a little while then drained the tank of the dusty water. Then I added 1" of SMS rinsed in the way Dennis described on top and refilled the tank very slowly and it worked great. The finer particles will settle down to the bottom over time.


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## cwlodarczyk (Sep 18, 2005)

I DID rinse. I still made the mistake of filling the tank too quickly. Here's what happened:










I ended up having to drain everything back down - even after doing that the tank was still cloudy for a week.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Jane in Upton said:


> One photo I saw mentioned the darker area where it was wet from added mulm. It looked like they added it dry. Did they not rinse it at all? It looked like they didn't.


I believe that may have been my thread with pics  I did, in fact, add the Soilmaster dry. I did not rinse the Soilmaster in either of the two tanks I have used it in. I filled both tanks very slowly and had very minimal clouding after the tank was full. I think this is noticeable in the pics also.

My 50g was perhaps the least cloudy but I attribute this to the fact that I only use two Rio 200 powerheads on the tank for circulation where my 75g has a Magnum 350 and a Fluval 303 on it.

I was a bit leary of adding it dry since I have had some very bad clouding with Flourite and this seemed to be at least as dusty as Fflourite when pouring from the bag. I figured it would be an experiment and it has worked well for me


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## oceanaqua (Oct 24, 2005)

I have never rinse my soilmaster, it get more cloudy if you rinse, just fill it up very slowly.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Whatever you do, do NOT add a chemical water clarifier. I did that on a VERY SMALL TANK and the water looked like curdled orange pea soup 24-36 hours later. All that stuff then settled on my GORGEOUS plants which I had previously harvested from another tank (dwarf sag). 

Or be VERY CAREFUL before you DO add a chemical water clarifier. You need to know BEFOREHAND what your tank may then look like.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

:-k Where can I find more information on Soil Master Select and Cation Exchange Capacity? I know it is supposed to be very good, and I have it in a 1 1/2 - 2 inch layer on top of my Seachem Flourite / Black & White Gravel mix in my large tank. I like how it looks. 

But I would like to know more about what the Soil Master Select is biologically or chemically DOING in my tank/sustrate with the plant roots and water column. :-k


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## perpacity (May 30, 2006)

This stuff is dirty, dirty, dirty! (Soilmaster Select Charcoal). I rinsed mine 5 times and finally gave up on trying to get it clean.


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## joemomma (Apr 7, 2006)

Where are you guys buying this? I don't have a Lesco anywhere near me (TN) and don't want to order a pallet off the internet. Farmer's Co-op maybe?


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## wiste (Feb 10, 2006)

Info can be found in this thread on where to find soilmaster
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/science-of-substrates/28231-info-feedback-soilmaster-select-substrate-charcoal.html



> From their website http://www.oildri.com/agri/turbase.htm
> 
> "For more information about our sports field products, please fill out the form below or contact us at:
> 
> ...


There is a Lesco in Chattanooga and one in Nashville. It took 10 weeks to have some sent to a store near me (40 miles away).


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

Think Baseball. Ask anybody involved in a local softball or baseball league. 

Don't even bother telling them what you need if for! 
(That may effect the response you get to making or finding a people connection.) Once you find a kid / Mom or Dad / Coach connection - let them do all the talking. Don't get technical or chemical or biological on them. 

Just let them know you heard it is great for turf and you need some. If you know the baseball lingo / language work it! 

Where there is baseball there is SoilMaster! Good Luck. 

(If anyone knows anything about the shipping business - how much does it cost to ship a 50lb bag from 12306 to IN ?)


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

If anyone is interested there is a very good section on Robert Hudson's Website in the Beginner's section on CEC (Cation Exchange Capacity) which I appreciated very much because I found it very easy to understand. I still have questions, but I have a better understanding of what it means.

I am observing the top 1 inch of my SoilMaster change - and whatever is filling in between the granules. It is NOT plant mulm or fish waste.

I am also *trying to resist *the temptation to mix my layers of SoilMaster Select Red with my lower layer of Seachem Flourite which is already mixed with Black & White regular aquarium gravel. If I DID do this to speed up the bacteria 'growth?' how would this be beneficial to my plants & aquarium?


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## joemomma (Apr 7, 2006)

Awesome! I do have an "in" with some of the local baseball folks, plus I work in Nashville so I can try to find Lesco. Thanks guys!


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## AlexTal (Mar 23, 2006)

I didn't wash when I set mine up. Was slightly "hazy" the first day or two, but now it's cleared up.


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## fishstein (Dec 12, 2005)

Hi AlexTal,

Did you ever finish setting up this tank? Any pics of the final layout? Very much looking forward to seeing them. Also, what are the dimensions of your 90G tank?

Best Regards,

Fishstein


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## AlexTal (Mar 23, 2006)

I've set up the tank and am allowing the plants to mature. For pictures check out the link in my sig.

My tank is 48X18X24

Make comments! I update every so often! Give advice! haha


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