# Shrimp and Copper Sulfate Journal



## Philip C (Jan 1, 2007)

On 2-01-07 I bought some New Life Spectrum "small fish formula" because I liked the idea of the small granules and the ingredients seemed to be different than most others. But I was concerted about one key ingredient, copper sulfate, as many suggest do not use fish food with copper sulfate if keeping shrimp. I decided to see the effects of New Life on Ghost shrimp as an experiment, but I guess it's not a true experiment as I do not have a control subject.

So I started with 10 ghost shrimp and have them is a small critter cage measuring 6"x3"x 41/2". I make sure to feed them 2-3 times a day with plenty of left over food sitting at the bottom of the cage. This is to ensure they are getting as much copper sulfate in there system as possible using New Life Spectrum. Its funny watching them fight over a single pellet even though there at least 20 more sitting around them. Because of the heavy feeding and lack of filtration, I do daily water changes of 100%. I want to ensure the shrimp do not die from ammonia poisoning even though the additional stress may kill them.

On 2-06 My water changing method may have killed one shrimp due to unnecessary stress. I was simply dumping out water and pouring more in, doing this several times to get all the shrimp waste out while the shrimp were still in the cage. My new method involves putting the shrimp into a separate container while changing the water.

On 2-08 I found one shrimp on my desk, as I may have over filled the hamster cage, so now I'm down to 8 shrimp.

2-10, the remaining 8 shrimp seem to be doing fine and dandy, so 10 days of copper sulfate in their diet with no signs of ill effects.

By the way I did email New Lift and they sent me this link
Copper Sulfate - Invision Power Board


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Interesting observation. I'm surprised the constant water changes, rotting leftover food, and lack of waterflow/filtration didn't kill more of them. But it goes to show you that shrimp are very hardy creatures.

H&B Lobster bites are fairly small in grain size and are excellent in feeding shrimp if you're interested in finding another pellet size food.

-John N.


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## milalic (Aug 26, 2005)

The amount of copper in most foods is very low. The effects will be over time and with the kind of experiement you are doing shrimp will die first of an ammonia spike or because of a sudden temp change.


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## Purrbox (Jun 1, 2006)

Hikari Micro Wafers is another small pellet food that does not contain any Copper ingrediants.


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## Philip C (Jan 1, 2007)

milalic said:


> The amount of copper in most foods is very low. The effects will be over time and with the kind of experiement you are doing shrimp will die first of an ammonia spike or because of a sudden temp change.


What kind of time frame do you think I will have to run this experiment in order to see the negative side effects of copper?

The reason I picked up the New Life fish food is because it seemed as though my tetras would often spit out the flake food I was giving them. So far it appears as though they go crazy over this new food, so it is not intended to feed my shrimp. This experiment is to show what large doses of this food would do to shrimp. So if the ghost shrimp can handled being feed this several times a day, I'm sure that my cherry or amano shrimp could handle the left overs?
The question becomes how long should I conduct this experiment before concluding that feeding my tetra this new fish food is safe for other tank mates?

By the way I will look into the other fish foods mentioned, they sound interesting thanks for the heads up.
Philip


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## milalic (Aug 26, 2005)

Philip C said:


> What kind of time frame do you think I will have to run this experiment in order to see the negative side effects of copper?


It would be long. How long, I have no idea. Remember that the copper content is low(for example, not like the copper content of some ich medicines). Also, you do water changes, which reduce the amount of copper.



Philip C said:


> So if the ghost shrimp can handled being feed this several times a day, I'm sure that my cherry or amano shrimp could handle the left overs?


If one shrimp specie can handle high amounts of copper it does not necessarily mean that other shrimp species will have the same tolerance.
You will have to conduct controlled experiments with the different species and compare the findings.


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## THHNguyen (Dec 2, 2006)

Philip C said:


> So if the ghost shrimp can handled being feed this several times a day, I'm sure that my cherry or amano shrimp could handle the left overs?
> Philip


I feed my fish New Life Spectrum and my shrimp often get leftovers and they are doing just fine and breeding. I feed them other foods that don't contain copper and they only get small bits of NLS, so I think that your shrimp should at least survive.


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## splatt3 (Jan 9, 2007)

that's a great experiment. because i feed my shrimps with HBH crab bites i get worried about the CuSO4, i do test my water with a Copper test from API. the results are always negative (thank goodness). this is a good experiment and thanks for doing it. good job


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## Philip C (Jan 1, 2007)

splatt3 said:


> this is a good experiment and thanks for doing it. good job


Thanks for the encouraging words

For a Update:

2-11-07
Day 11, I found one more dead shrimp at the bottom today.
There could be two possible reasons:
One, last night I got a little lazy and did not do my daily water change, so the shrimp has to swim in their waste for an extra 10 or so hours.

Two, as I was pouring the water out into another container, one shrimp jumped out onto my desk. I tried picking him up with my clumsy fingers and took several tries to finally get him back in the cage. I don't know for sure which shrimp died, so I can not equate the two for sure. But next time I will use a piece of paper and scope him off the desk, as I think this may be easier on the shrimp.
So after 11 days I'm down to 7 shrimp, but they all look fine, and as others have noted the conditions I'm putting the shrimp through are not favorable.

Just to let everyone one know, I'm not using a control subject, so if all my shrimp die, it can not be blamed on the copper. But on the other hand if all my shrimp do well and live for a a good while, one thing can be assumed, that the copper in New Life Spectrum did not cause direct mortality for my ghost shrimp in the time frame of my experiment. Once my cherry shrimp start to breed and I have extras to play with, I will conduct similar test. If you are interested in knowing now and are willing to ship a few shrimp of your choice I will be more than happy to run the experiment on them too


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## milalic (Aug 26, 2005)

If you overfeed, you will have ammonia problems which is the likely killer of your shrimp. There are many people who feed their shrimp here in the forum and other places foods that contain very small amount of copper. If it has very small amount of copper as so many foods do, I doubt you can see any results that will point you to a death cause by copper. 

Is not to discourage your or anyone, but it might be easier to ask if other people have used your same food or one containing copper with their shrimp, for how long, etc.

Cheers,


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## Philip C (Jan 1, 2007)

Milalic,
How long would do you think it would take to get a spike in ammonia to the point it causes mortality? I figured daily water changes of 100% would prevent this, but if you think I need to do water changes more often, then I will consider. Before the next water change I will measure the ammonia just to see what levels we are reaching in a single day's accumulation of food and waste.


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## milalic (Aug 26, 2005)

Philip C said:


> Milalic,
> How long would do you think it would take to get a spike in ammonia to the point it causes mortality? I figured daily water changes of 100% would prevent this, but if you think I need to do water changes more often, then I will consider. Before the next water change I will measure the ammonia just to see what levels we are reaching in a single day's accumulation of food and waste.


Ammonia spikes are sudden and many times they can't be measured. Most surely the shrimp that had died on your tank recently are cause by this.
100% water changes will restart cycling in a tank in many cases. It is not recommended to do. Feed your shrimp, do not over feed and maintain good stable parameters and they should be fine.


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