# More newbie tank cycling questions



## Ridgeback (Feb 6, 2010)

I've cycled tanks before but I have never cycled a planted tank. I am in the process of gathering up supplies (lighting arrives next week...CO2 system in a couple of weeks) for my 40 gallon tank. Here are the steps that I am taking to setup and cycle the tank:

- Setup hardscape and substrate (Eco Complete)
- Fill tank 1/4 full. Heavily plant tank with fast growing plants (stem plants). I am planning on using, Hornwort, Cabomba, Rotala Wallichi.
- Fill tank up and start filtration. Start lighting (6-7 hours per day). I may only start with using 2 of the 4 lights (I am getting a 4x39W T5 HO fixture...Catalina)
- Wait 2-3 days and add a few fish (4-6 Puntius titteya, My son wants a Betta...I assume both of these species are hardy enough?)
- Let the tank go for a few weeks. Test Water regularly (should observe, Ammonia spike, Nitrite spike and the Nitrate buildup)
- During this time slowly increase lighting to using all four lights 8-9 hours per day. Start CO2 system
- Do a weekly water changes (25%-50%)
- After 6 weeks or so start adding more fish slowly, change plant layout as desired. Begin using ferts at about 1/2 recommended dosage then increasing to full dosage after 2-3 weeks.

That's my plan. Is the order I am doing this correct? Are the fish I am using to cycle the tank OK? Is my plant selection for cycling the tank OK? Does Ecocomplete give me a headstart on cycling my tank? Did I miss anything? Is my information right? Is there any posting I should look at that has a better checklist for cycling a tank?

Keep in mind I've been away from the aquarium hobby for about 20 years so it's been a while since I've done this. Thanks for your help and tolerating the litany of newbie questions...


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

You really don't have to add fish until you test for ammonia and find it is zero. Any rotting plant matter or fish food will be food to start nutrifying bacteria. You don't really have to expose fish to a tank that is not cycled. 

Ecocomplete will not do anything to cycle your tank. It's just another substrate choice. If you have way to get some mulm that will help speed up the process. Mulm is the yucky stuff in fish filters. If you had a friend with a tank I'm sure they'd have plenty!

You can use your lights and CO2 immediately. You want the plants to have everything they need to grow and use up the ammonia. The plants you listed are all fast growers. They will need good light so I would not go less than 7 hours. Watch them and increase up to 9 hrs if need be.


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## Ridgeback (Feb 6, 2010)

Tex Gal said:


> You really don't have to add fish until you test for ammonia and find it is zero. Any rotting plant matter or fish food will be food to start nutrifying bacteria. You don't really have to expose fish to a tank that is not cycled.
> 
> Ecocomplete will not do anything to cycle your tank. It's just another substrate choice. If you have way to get some mulm that will help speed up the process. Mulm is the yucky stuff in fish filters. If you had a friend with a tank I'm sure they'd have plenty!
> 
> You can use your lights and CO2 immediately. You want the plants to have everything they need to grow and use up the ammonia. The plants you listed are all fast growers. They will need good light so I would not go less than 7 hours. Watch them and increase up to 9 hrs if need be.


Thanks Tex Gal. I will seed the tank and let it cycle before adding fish. No need to teach my son the aquatic version of the "Circle of Life" if his Betta doesn't fair well 

Just curious...I noticed my new Eheim fileter comes with activated carbon...it seems I shouldn't add this to the filter when cycling the tank. Wouldn't the carbon take out all the Ammonia thus slowing or stalling the tank from cycling?


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Some people leave the carbon in at the beginning of a new tank to take care of any ammonia spikes. They usually have fish in the tank. Since you don't plan on having fish I'd not use it. (It wears out after about 2 weeks and then just acts as a host to good bacteria.) I'd let your plants take up the ammonia. You might also want to use some plants that you plan on keeping in the tank. Even slow growers will get a good start with higher ammonia levels. Pack it with plants and eventually pull out all the ones that you don't want in the long run.

My favorite fast cycling plant is Najas 'Roraima'. It is a nutrient hog and yet doesn't create a lot of shade. Here's a px.


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## jschall (Apr 13, 2009)

If you're heavily planting, I would say just put your permanent fish in and go for it. Obviously don't overstock it immediately, but one betta isn't going to be a problem. Feed minimally (2 or 3 1mm pellets every other day) for the first two weeks.

Carbon will not remove ammonia.

Alternatively, I'd recommend using an ammonia solution that has no detergents or anything in it, rather than introducing temporary fish. Ace hardware sells it in a 10% solution.
I'll hazard a guess that you have a 10 gallon tank. For 10 gallons, you probably want to start off with 3 drops of it. Dose daily, test for ammonia and nitrite and once they're gone by the next day do a 90% water change and add as many fish as you like.


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## Ridgeback (Feb 6, 2010)

Tex Gal said:


> Some people leave the carbon in at the beginning of a new tank to take care of any ammonia spikes. They usually have fish in the tank. Since you don't plan on having fish I'd not use it. (It wears out after about 2 weeks and then just acts as a host to good bacteria.) I'd let your plants take up the ammonia. You might also want to use some plants that you plan on keeping in the tank. Even slow growers will get a good start with higher ammonia levels. Pack it with plants and eventually pull out all the ones that you don't want in the long run.
> 
> My favorite fast cycling plant is Najas 'Roraima'. It is a nutrient hog and yet doesn't create a lot of shade.


Thanks Tex Gal. I plan to keep some of the Cabomba and most of the Rotala. The Najas is really cool but I haven't seen it sold anywhere locally  . I was going to rely on my LFS for this first round of planting. Do you know where I could find some online that won't cost me major $$$ ?

BTW...my Catalina 4x39W hood showed up today. I hooked it up and just about blinded myself. Either I am going to grow some serious plants, grow a lot of algae or reduce everything in the tank to chared carbon :flame:


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## Ridgeback (Feb 6, 2010)

jschall said:


> If you're heavily planting, I would say just put your permanent fish in and go for it. Obviously don't overstock it immediately, but one betta isn't going to be a problem. Feed minimally (2 or 3 1mm pellets every other day) for the first two weeks.
> 
> Carbon will not remove ammonia.
> 
> ...


Hadn't thought of the ammonia solution option. I'm setting up a 40 breeder tank. If I were to do this for 40 gallons I would add about 1 ml?


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## jschall (Apr 13, 2009)

Ridgeback said:


> Hadn't thought of the ammonia solution option. I'm setting up a 40 breeder tank. If I were to do this for 40 gallons I would add about 1 ml?


I'd go for 2-3 ppm after you dose.
40gl=150,000ml
Which means you want .15ml pure ammonia per ppm. So go for 0.5ml, or roughly 7-10 drops. Test afterward, because I could be waaaay off the mark.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Fishless cycle with ammonia, non-planted tank:
Add enough ammonia to test 5 ppm. 
The first few days the bacteria are such a small population that there will not be much of a reduction. Still, test daily, and add ammonia to bring it back to 5 ppm. By the end of the first week there will be a pretty big bacteria population removing the ammonia and producing nitrite. When nitrite shows up allow the ammonia to drop to 3 ppm, and then add just enough each day to keep it at 3 ppm. If the nitrite goes over 5 ppm do a water change. These bacteria do not grow well when the nitrite is over 5 ppm. 
By the end of about 3 weeks there will be a large enough bacteria population to support a reasonably large fish population. You will need to do a large water change to get the nitrate into a safe level. NO3 can hit triple digits during the fishless cycle. (The scientists who measured it out and created these numbers stocked an African Rift Lake tank, no plants, with the overstocking necessary to control the aggression)

Modifiers:
If you start with more bacteria then the cycle will go faster. The more you start with the faster the cycle will go. Add 5 ppm ammonia just as if you were starting the fishless cycle, then test for ammonia and nitrite. If both ammonia and nitrite are zero the next morning, then you have enough biological filtration to stock the tank. 
Best sources of nitrifying bacteria:
Well cycled filter media from a healthy tank. 
Gravel from a cycled, healthy tank. 
Dr. Tim's One and Only
Tetra Safe Start. 

If the tank is densely planted and the plants are thriving you might already have enough of a bio filter (the plants are the bio filter) so you can stock the tank. I would let the plants get established before adding the fish. Make sure the plants are thriving. Add a small amount of ammonia during this time. There are nitrifying bacteria on the leaves of the plants, and a bit of ammonia will feed the bacteria. Plants will use it, too. 
Some plants will not tolerate the fishless cycle. Too much ammonia. If you can catch it in time, do a massive water change to drop the ammonia, and try adding no more than 1 ppm ammonia for the fishless cycle. 

Since ammonia comes in different strengths it is best to use a test kit to confirm that there is the correct level of ammonia in the tank.


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