# Largest El Natural Tanks



## Bardus71 (Sep 29, 2011)

Hi all, 

I am toying with the idea of something big to play with, like a 270g 6x3x2, and wanted to do a bit of research beforehand but coming up with very little. 

If anyone has any leads on very large El Natural tanks, could you please post info, pics or a link here?

Thanks, 
Mark.


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## K Randall (Nov 23, 2004)

Bardus71 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am toying with the idea of something big to play with, like a 270g 6x3x2, and wanted to do a bit of research beforehand but coming up with very little.
> 
> ...


I'm not a personal fan of this method of plant keeping, but there is NO reason that it shouldn't work in a large tank... If anything, it should be more stable than a small tank.

The only thing I would caution you about is to know your soil!!! If you haven't worked with this kind of system before, experiment with a (much) smaller tank and learn how to manage it before taking on such a big tank. I'd say the same if you were going to set up an EI tank, an ADA tank, or whatever. While large tanks are inherently more stable, if you have a disaster, it's a REAL disaster in a huge tank like that. If you have to dump every thing out of a 20 gallon tank and start over, it's no big deal!


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## Bardus71 (Sep 29, 2011)

Thanks K Randall, I have had a very successful 55g NPT before, and it was a breeze to look after. 

I am thinking either something big with many micro-fish like glass shrimp, pygmy cories and Chili rasbora, or a single Murray Cod with glass shrimp (I'm in Australia)


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## K Randall (Nov 23, 2004)

No idea what a Murray Cod is, but as long as you are familiar with the system, and know your soil supply, you should do fine. (as long as that Cod-thing doesn't dig!!! )


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## Bardus71 (Sep 29, 2011)

Yeah, I have found brands of both soil & potting mix that worked well. 

Anyone done a big tank before? Or seen one? Pics? Links?


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## Extrame (Jun 8, 2011)

How would you address the lighting for that depth?
What kind of plants would you be using?


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## Larsen (Dec 17, 2007)

This is an 720L/190G El naturel, with mods... I think he uses some fertz tho not much. He's planning on doing an 1200L/317G tank next year.


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## Bardus71 (Sep 29, 2011)

Hey Extrame, those are the type of questions I want to start fathoming by starting this thread. 

Larsen, AWESOME mate! Who is HE?


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## Froggle (Mar 15, 2013)

Hey there!

Mark I think we've met on aquariumlife?

I have tank that I'm keen to rescape using the Walstad method (I'm just working my way through Diana's book). Although not a huge tank, it is 1m tall so I'm really interested to hear how others work with tanks of this depth. 

I wonder if one way to work with them is to use only very low light tollerant smaller plants (as they grow further from the light source) and low - mod light larger plants as they grow closer to the light source? I guess if the tank gets indirect sunlight this would provide another light source that is not so distant?

I'm still getting my head around everything so please forgive me if I'm completely on the wrong track!

Laura


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## Bardus71 (Sep 29, 2011)

Hey Laura, yep, its the same me on AL. Glad to see you searching wide for research purposes. No sweat about being on the wrong track either. When I started, I wanted to try this on everything, tanks, vases, Tupperware, you know, the things that happen once MTS (multiple tank syndrome) got a hold. You'll notice most of the NPTs here are not aquascapes per se as you'll find on AL, they are a bit more basic & natural, but I wanted a full scape with planted zones, mounds, pathways, hardscape, the works. Thought I was cutting edge with creating foam contours for under the substrate & everything, but after learning through experience, realised it was blah overkill, but it was good to run with that initial enthusiasm. There is no reason why these tanks cant be set up with the degree of skill & technicality of any other style of tank. I imagine one could do a good dutch scape in a Walstad. 

Your question would probably be worth starting a new thread about. There are really no excessively hard & fast rules, just things to consider, and different perspectives from different people would help you wrap your head around trying something that is not so common. Things I would include are the other dimensions of the tank, the volume, what lighting and filter you had in mind for the tank, and also what plants and livestock you have been thinking of. There should be some great insights from the members here, Diana Walstad herself is known to drop in on occasion. Start one up & I will post my thoughts there.


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## Arendahl (Mar 16, 2013)

Hey Bardus 71 , i,m the goy with the 190 g tank.


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## Arendahl (Mar 16, 2013)

Arendahl said:


> Hey Bardus 71 , i,m the gay with the 190 g tank.


luking forward to hear from you


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## Bardus71 (Sep 29, 2011)

Hey Arendahl, great to hear from you. I would love to hear more on your tanks and your insights into what you were thinking as you put your tanks together, obstacles & considerations you came across as they settled in, and how you have managed them. Tell me everything! 

Hej Arendahl, dejligt at høre fra dig. Jeg ville elske at høre mere om dine tanke og din indsigt i, hvad du tænkte da du lægger dine kampvogne sammen, forhindringer og overvejelser, du kom på tværs, da de bosatte sig i, og hvordan du har formået dem. Fortæl mig alt! Oversættelse er takket være http://translate.google.com/


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Bardus, I've been following this thread, hoping someone would show a really big Walstad tank.

The largest tank I have set up was a 90 gal corner bow-front--the foot print is a quarter circle. This was a planted tank demo for my local fish store. The tank is 24" deep, and an such an odd shape that I had to improvise some lighting, a two tube T5 HO fixture across the front, and a 250w metal halide in the back corner. The tank has a large cannister filter.

Despite almost no maintenance by the shop owner (not even a water change!), the tank flourished for 9 months. Then the owner decided to put discus in it, dosed it with all sorts of parasiticides, and turned the temp up to 86 F. About half the species of plants died. (So did half the discus.) But eventually the remaining heat-tolerant species rebounded, and the tank looks reasonably good again. It is now a year and a half old.

I took some measurements with a PAR meter in that tank. At the surface the level is pretty high, about 200 umols. At the substrate it drops to 30-40 umols. I deliberately planted the foreground with low-light plants, and used medium-light species in the back and sides. At this point the tank does have a minor but persistant problem with hair algae, but I think this is due to poor maintenance and high temperatures. There is green spot algae on the front glass, but that would not be a problem if the owner ever cleaned it.

Hope this helps!


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## Arendahl (Mar 16, 2013)

Hey Bardus 71
 I will do my best, this is the first time i write in English.
Let`s start at the bottom of the tank, baset on Walstads method. Flowers soil, a soft and glorius media, to work with, it comes from her own country, Sweden, our neighboring country. I`ve washed it 3 times, so as not to give too much color to the water, then it is allowed to stand for 2 to 3 weeks in a container, without water , just damp, with a protective cloth or plastic, so there will be a culture of flowers compost that will benefit the plants when it comes to the aquarium, a good start.

For my 720 L i use 75 liters of flowers mulch (also called potting soil) when i get it the tank i press it a littel stuck with a clenched fist, so it is fixd.
Top of flower soil i come river gravel 2 to 4 mm, river gravel is not sharp kabter they are fine and around, 5 cm in front and 10 to 15 cm at the back,you can shape the bottom as you like.

I used 20 kg red clay, which i made small balls of the same size as 2 to 3 cm , red clay contains some iron, which is good for plants, is also a good ion exchanger.
A nice layer all the way down to the bottom of the tank before you get flowers soil in, part of it to get flowers soil perferably 5 cm into the medium, the rest is distributed around the plant root when the sand comes in the aquarium.
Forgot to straight ofcause red clay is dried in the sun before it enteres the aquarium.

Then we come to the water, i use 75% rain water and 25% tap water, it gives a Kh 4 to 5 in our area , it means that the water Ph is very constant , at 6,5, it has meant that i did not struggle with algea at all in the 5 year it has existed, i switch 100 L per month, 75 L rainwater 25 L tap water, so much around the water.

As i said, i have not had any probiems with anything in the 5 years it has ben running, i know that it is not Low-Tech 100 % but this is as close to the real thing

The light is LED light most cool white, there are 60 pieces with 30 LED light on each, 12 wolt 2,1 watts which together provide 126 watt, it`s not much to 720 L but it works perfectly, on 9 hours from 10.30 to 19.30 

I fertilize 1 time per week with micro fertilizer and once a week with nitrate KNo3 no co2 no easy carpo.

The plants are some that do not require as much light ofcause.

Technique Eheim cannister filter 2300 L per hour 2 pcs sirkulations pumps in the aquarium of 2000 and 4200 L per hour 1 pc heater 300 watt.

I can then add, it is the first aquarium I`ve had.

I also have a tank of 120 L with Wild guppies, and shrimp it tuns 100% Walstad no fertilizer only feed.

I save the fish and plants for the next time.

Kjeld


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## Bardus71 (Sep 29, 2011)

Hi again Kjeld, that's a very good effort for your first tank :clap2:

"it is allowed to stand for 2 to 3 weeks in a container, without water , just damp, with a protective cloth or plastic, so there will be a culture of flowers compost that will benefit the plants when it comes to the aquarium, a good start."​
I really like this idea, to give the bacteria a good start before flooding the tank. I am unsure of what you did with the red clay balls though. Did you put them at the bottom of the tank, then put the potting soil on top of it, then sand, then more red clay balls around the base of the plants that you are growing?

I look forward to your next post, maybe even some more pictures? 

_______

Hej igen Kjeld, det er en meget god indsats for din første tank :clap2:

"det er tilladt at stå i 2 til 3 uger i en beholder, uden vand, bare fugtigt, med en beskyttende klud eller plastic, så der vil være en kultur af blomster kompost, som vil gavne planterne, når det kommer til akvarium, en god start. "​Jeg kan virkelig godt lide denne idé, at give bakterier en god start før oversvømmelser tanken. Jeg er usikker på, hvad du gjorde med de røde ler bolde selv. Vidste du lægger dem i bunden af tanken, og derefter sætte den pottemuld på toppen af det, så sand, så er mere røde ler bolde rundt i bunden af de planter, du vokser?

Jeg ser frem til din næste indlæg, måske endda nogle flere billeder?


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## Bardus71 (Sep 29, 2011)

Michael said:


> Bardus, I've been following this thread, hoping someone would show a really big Walstad tank.
> 
> The largest tank I have set up was a 90 gal corner bow-front--the foot print is a quarter circle. This was a planted tank demo for my local fish store. The tank is 24" deep, and an such an odd shape that I had to improvise some lighting, a two tube T5 HO fixture across the front, and a 250w metal halide in the back corner. The tank has a large cannister filter.
> 
> ...


Sounds great Michael, apart from the minor glitch. Maybe Laura will benefit from your light readings using the PAR meter and also knowing the depth of the tank & the lights being measured. That sure is a deep tank!.


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## Arendahl (Mar 16, 2013)

Hey Bardus.

Thanks for clappind  , mabye it`s just lucky punch, who knows.
On the red clay i deschribe before you get potting soil, in the aquarium, getting clay balls in the aquarium, only one layer, leaving about 2 cm in between, th balls.

Then you can fill soil in the aquarium,where you put the plants you can also get clay balls, in the soill.

Once you`ve put the sand into the aquairum,can you get some clay balls around the roots,about 5 cm into the sand.

Hope it is a better explanation.upload of imiges i found is a little difficult, but need to get after it 

 Sincerely. Kjeld.


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## Arendahl (Mar 16, 2013)

Hey Bardus,how are you planning for your new project, let us know how it goes.

Regards Kjeld


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## Bardus71 (Sep 29, 2011)

Hi Kjeld, this is a long term vision. I imagine at some time in the future I will sell all my tanks and equipment to fund a single large tank. At the moment I have a Walstad jar, 3x 1'cubes, a Fluval Edge, a standard 2'tank, and a 2x18x18. My next project is a 4'tank with a carpet of E. belem and a massive tree trunk.


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## Arendahl (Mar 16, 2013)

Bardus71 said:


> Hi Kjeld, this is a long term vision. I imagine at some time in the future I will sell all my tanks and equipment to fund a single large tank. At the moment I have a Walstad jar, 3x 1'cubes, a Fluval Edge, a standard 2'tank, and a 2x18x18. My next project is a 4'tank with a carpet of E. belem and a massive tree trunk.


It is always exciting with new projects, let`s hear more when you start.

Regards Kjeld.:wave:


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## bluediscus (Sep 27, 2008)

Hi All, I have a 5'x2'x2' 150g tank. I don't know if I added the image correctly.



















Current Tank Specs:
Size: 5'x2'x2', 150Gal
Filter: Eheim 2217
Light: LED (on the left) and 150w MH w/ 24wT5 (on the right)
Water Temp: 80-84F
Fish: 3x Cardinal Tetra, 5x Albino Bristlenose Catfish
Plants: Valisineria, C.aponogetifolia, C.wendtii, javafern philippine, javafern windelov, Echinodorus sp., Nymphaea sp., Wisteria
Substrate: 1" Red mountain soil (like clay/laterite) + 3" washed small pebbles
Start Date: 2009

This tank has been a very long experiment. When I first set it up, I used plain garden soil as the base layer (1"), then added washed gravel on top. That resulted to a lot of algae! So after some research, I decided to redo the tank and use plain red mountain clay, somewhat like laterite. My first mistake was that the clay was somewhat mucky when I added it, and I didn't put enough gravel on top. This resulted to a very cloudy tank which didn't clear up. So i redid it a 3rd time. Its better to dry out the base soil first, spread it evenly, then add at least 2-3" gravel on top. This way when you slowly fill the tank with water, the particulates in the base soil don't leach out into the water column.

When the tank started started, the driftwood on the left was suppose to be a tree, overgrown with javafern as leaves, standing in the middle of a field. During that time I had 4x48w fluorescent tubes driven by an icecap 660 ballast. I tried planting numerous kinds of foreground plants, HC, E.tenellus, glossostigma, C.Parva, but they all perished. I think it was due to lack of light and the warm temperature (I was hitting 86F). I even tried adding CO2, on the advice of some fellow hobbyists and research. There was growth for a while, but then the foreground plants would eventually wither away. So then I tried using 4x55w PL driven by the same 660 ballast. There was a lot more light, which resulted to more algae, but still no growth from the foreground plants. So now I'm experimenting with MH and LED. The 150w MH is only able to maintain my plants but not make them flourish.

I think my main issues are: Given my ambient temp (80-86), here in Manila, and my lack of lighting sources, I can not grow the plants that I want. If you have a target layout or target plants in mind, be sure they are able to get enough light, specially at the bottom of the tank.

So this is what I've realized, if you're going to go with El Natural, the resulting tank will definitely be low maintenance, and it being a large tank, it will be stable. Try not to feed the fish that much, and be prepared to accept what comes out of it!


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## Arendahl (Mar 16, 2013)

Looks fine, maintenance, 1 hour a month i spend on my aquarium, large plant variety in my tank.

There willalways be ups and downs when you experimenting, but it looks fine.

You also get some experience, with ups and downs, it means a lot to one`s consciousness.

Regards Kjeld


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