# Philips PLLs for a 36" High tank?



## Tanan (Mar 11, 2009)

Hey everyone.
I have this slight problem that I have ran into. I am making a planted tank for a friend and unfortunately with his budget my only options for a planted tank are off the shelf lighting. It's supposed to be a low light low tech El natural style tank. No highlight plants.
Its a 42" long, 36" tall and 15" wide tank. The plant list I am thinking about is as follow:
Vals (as many varieties I can get hold of)
Aponogeton Crispus
C. wenditii brown
C.Wenditii green
Dwarf sag
Java moss
Java fern
Windelov Java fern
H.Difformis
H. angustifolia. 
Amazon Swords (prolly E.bleheri)

Now what you think would be better as lighting for a 36" low tank. Or would be able to grow above mentioned plants or not.
Overdriving 4x t8 36" long Philips tubes (Daylight and cool daylight).
5-6 T5 36" long philips daylight bulbs.
3 philips 55W PLLs Daylight.
4 Philips 36W PLLs Daylight


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

The part that I worry about is the that the tank is 36" tall. Which means that the lights will be at lest 36" from the substrate. The fist thing that comes to my mind is running Lenses on LED lights to get the penetration with DIY LED lighting

However you have not mentions that in your options. I had fantastic results years ago running 2 daylight and 1 Chroma 50 bulb on a 75 gallon tank for a total of 120 watts. But we are talking 24" tall compared to your 36" tall. So I would want to kick that lighting up to to around 180 watts total for similar results. 

HO T-5 lights in 36" lenght ar 39 Watts each so you need at least 5 bulbs 
T-5 standard 36" are 24 watts each so you would need 7 or 8 bulbs
The 55 watt PLL's are less efficient than straight tubes so I would look at 4 bulbs. 

On a LED fixture if you DIY you can buld a 120 watt fixture for roughly $250.00 and be in better shape than any of the above listed options.


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## Tanan (Mar 11, 2009)

I know LEDs/MH would be the best options but problem is the whole budge of the tank doesnt allow it. I want it to be a low light tank so I think I can do away with 1.5-1.8 WPG. I might cut down to some very low light plants. 4x55W PLLs might be pushing the envelope. But thanks. 
Also can you guys add anymore plants to the list? Except any anubias?


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

Best way to do that type of setup is to put low-light plants like java fern, moss, african fern on vertical pieces of wood. When I say vertical I mean lengthwise going up the water column on different angles to make it interesting. The human arm is only so long and tending to plants on the bottom of a 36" deep tank gets old really fast. Also since the tank is tall the amount of plant mass is limited due to the small footprint so when you use strong light to reach the bottom the mass just isn't there to handle the lighting, etc and very easy to have algae issues, etc. I would pout some rock on the bottom maybe a few slow grow easy plants that you won't have to worry about and the rest attach to driftwood and create a scape on a stick.


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## Tanan (Mar 11, 2009)

Well thats why I was going to use vals, dwarf sag and crypts under this low lighting I think they will grow very slowly and be manageable. No?
I love your idea of java fern and moss on wood to create an interesting structure.
I was thinking about medium size rocks covering java moss? You think they will grow too fast? I am worried that I might not be able to take them out for maintenance. You think naked rocks would look bad with tall wood pieces? 
I'm thinking of painting the back black, with black substrate to pop out rocks(yellow- cream-ish color) and wood (bog wood is brownish black).


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

What are you going to pay for 4 55 watt PLL's. I think if your looking at a comparable new purchased system it will cost more than you build the equivalent LED system. 

Yes I'll agree you can get away with even less wattage if you raise the plants off the substrate. But this is also where some of lenses on LED's give them a super advantage over any other lighting system.


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## Tanan (Mar 11, 2009)

I can get the 4x55W PLLs for 35-40 usd. DIY reflector and they are good to go. Other option might be a 75W MH light 50usd. Since the system will be in air conditioned room maintained at 25C. Heat isnt the problem. LEDs minimum is gonna cost me 120usd and takes atleast 1 month to ship and the tank needs to be read in 3 month. 
I wish I could do LEDs but they are just out of the budget.


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

Tanan said:


> I can get the 4x55W PLLs for 35-40 usd. DIY reflector and they are good to go. Other option might be a 75W MH light 50usd. Since the system will be in air conditioned room maintained at 25C. Heat isnt the problem. LEDs minimum is gonna cost me 120usd and takes atleast 1 month to ship and the tank needs to be read in 3 month.
> I wish I could do LEDs but they are just out of the budget.


Yes at that pricing the 4-55's are the best as far as initial investment goes. But beware the offering for these bulbs is decreasing every day.

Not knowing where you live it sounds like you have slow shipping. When I order LED's for a DIY I usually get everything with standard shipping in 3 to 4 days. The Aluminum heat sinks and rail combo I get locally. Then my build time is in the of 2 to 4 hours.


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## Tanan (Mar 11, 2009)

I live in Karachi, Pakistan. It doesnt show my location? I thought it did. I ordered LEDs for my tank on 1st march. They wont arrive here before 22nd March.


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## Tanan (Mar 11, 2009)

I am checking X-Large tank in AGA competition for ideas and this just struck me as something unbelievable. So it's true that WPG usually goes out of the window when we start talking about large or oddball tanks? 
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2005/show37.html
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2005/show84.html
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2006/show50.html

Now I am confused that should I just go with 1 x 150W MH or go with 6xT5 24W, or 4x55W PLLs. My main concern with MH is that it might be too much light for a low light tank and will cause algae.


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

Tanan said:


> I am checking X-Large tank in AGA competition for ideas and this just struck me as something unbelievable. So it's true that WPG usually goes out of the window when we start talking about large or oddball tanks?
> http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2005/show37.html
> http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2005/show84.html
> http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2006/show50.html


Yes some beautiful tanks if you have room for something that large. Reminds me one someone bult from old commercial Glass doors that was 42" inches tall and 8' long. years ago. But it was only aquascaped with rocks and south American chichlids.



Tanan said:


> Now I am confused that should I just go with 1 x 150W MH or go with 6xT5 24W, or 4x55W PLLs. My main concern with MH is that it might be too much light for a low light tank and will cause algae.


My concern with a MH is not the power as much as the light spread . You have a 42" long tank your working with and when I ran MH's I ran one every 24"

The 6 T-5's will give you more light than the 4- 55 watt but where do these balance price wise. And will the 6 T-5's be over kill, as well. But the option of them might be only run 4 of the 6 bulbs.


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## Tanan (Mar 11, 2009)

I was think of doing an island style tank. So the lower spread might be useful. No? My main concern is more of the fact that the light might be too much for a low light tank in the area it covers. I mean who has heard of low light MH tanks? But then shimmer of MH will make it stunning from the first day. The problem with T5s is they will be atleast 8-10" above water surface further reducing their light. Same goes for PLs.


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

Tanan said:


> I was think of doing an island style tank. So the lower spread might be useful. No? My main concern is more of the fact that the light might be too much for a low light tank in the area it covers. I mean who has heard of low light MH tanks? But then shimmer of MH will make it stunning from the first day. The problem with T5s is they will be atleast 8-10" above water surface further reducing their light. Same goes for PLs.


If there is a center brace on the tank then either rule out the MH's or you will need two.

The 8-10" above waterline will not be an issue with the T-5's. And there is good bulb selection available in T-5 bulbs.


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## Tanan (Mar 11, 2009)

finally bought 6 x 36W Osram 880 (Skywhite, 8000K) PLLs. MH would have heated the cabinet way too much and could have resulted in drastic temp fluctuations. 55W PLLs werent available in Osram or 8000K. Lets hope this is enough light for a 36". I have yet to decide which reflector to fit in the hood. If my DIY skills werent so ghetto I might even post it.


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

Tanan said:


> finally bought 6 x 36W Osram 880 (Skywhite, 8000K) PLLs. MH would have heated the cabinet way too much and could have resulted in drastic temp fluctuations. 55W PLLs werent available in Osram or 8000K. Lets hope this is enough light for a 36". I have yet to decide which reflector to fit in the hood. If my DIY skills werent so ghetto I might even post it.


Individual reflectors for each bulb will give you the most light penetration. However it will be the most costly. When I rebuilt my T-5 fixture years ago I made my own reflectors however I had access to a brake and sheer for cutting and bending the polished Aluminum. Cost savings in the end were only minimal compared to buying premade reflectors.

I'm not sure I would have selected 8,000K bulbs for a planted tank. I used to run a combination of 5,000K and 6,500K bulbs with good results.


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## Tanan (Mar 11, 2009)

Luckily I've access to all the machinery required to cut or bend. Sadly I have with no skills to use them. So I might go with an aluminum sheet covering the whole inside of the light hood. 
Are you sure it wont be too much light for a very low light, low maintenance tank? I am having doubts about 6 PLLs. These are some really good lights. Have had some amazing results with them. Ammania gracilis would grow crazy and turn red. Which it never did under 5000K bulbs.


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

Tanan said:


> Luckily I've access to all the machinery required to cut or bend. Sadly I have with no skills to use them. So I might go with an aluminum sheet covering the whole inside of the light hood.
> Are you sure it wont be too much light for a very low light, low maintenance tank? I am having doubts about 6 PLLs. These are some really good lights. Have had some amazing results with them. Ammania gracilis would grow crazy and turn red. Which it never did under 5000K bulbs.


Usualy there is seperate ballast for each pair of bulbs. If it is to much light is all you need to do is disconnect one of the ballasts then you have a 4 bulb unit instead of a 6 bulb unit.


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