# General CO2 info



## redstrat (Apr 3, 2006)

Hi, I'm somewhat new to aquatic gardening, I've had several planted tanks in the past but I have recently started a new 75gallon planted tank and I have heard about the benefits of CO2 but I have no idea where to start. I'm basically looking for a general overview of whats involved with CO2 injection Cost, maintenance, set up? I'm sure there is an initial investment but how long should a tank of CO2 last and what do they cost generally and how easy is it to get a refill. Also if anybody has any general CO2 tips I would REALLY appreciate it. THANKS!!!


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Hi Davis! Welcome to APC! :biggrin:

For a pressurized CO2 setup you'll need:

*CO2 Regulator *(milwaukee, azoo, or JBJ) $85 to your door check ebay, drsfostersmith.com, aquariumplants.com, and aquabotanic.com

*10 CO2 tank* will last you probably 6-8 months $75 on average filled and tested from your local welding or fire extinquisher supply place, or get a new one from Beveragefactory.com.

*External reactor* with your canister filter: Aquamedic 1000 $60, or build it yourself for $30 (see DIY forum for stickies). drsfostersmith.com. Power Vortex reactor for inside the tank, aquabotanic.com.

So you're looking at a total cost of about $150-200 for a pressurized setup. Only real maintenance would be filling up the CO2 tank ($20). It's really easy to get it refilled. Bring it to the shop, and they'll do it on the spot. Some place require you to leave it over night, so call around.

-John N.


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## redstrat (Apr 3, 2006)

Thanks for all the info!! I looked at DrsFostersmith.com and they have automated set-ups whats the benefits of something automated. I guess the real quesiton is, do you think its worth it to have something with a controller connected to a PH probe or is it easy to control manually with the regulator? whats a bubble counter for?


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

The benefit of an automated system is that you set your target pH (target CO2 level) and the system will automatically turn on when it's under the target CO2 and turn off when it reaches the target. Problems with that set up is that pH probes go off, and it's one more thing that can break down. IMO, not worth it, but many foks swear by it. Your personal call.

The initial set up will require a little bit of your time to ascertain that the pH levels don't drop down too low (too much CO2) and you asphyxiate your fish. However, once you've done that, you're pretty much set. 

A bubble counter is only a visual measure of how much CO2 you're putting into the system. If you CO2 levels are lower than what you need/want, you simply increase the flow rate and you visualize it via the bubble counter.

Before setting up a CO2 system, make sure your water is at least kh 3, so as to not have pH crashes!


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## redstrat (Apr 3, 2006)

thanks for the tips. What in your opinion is the best way to get started with CO2 keeping cost in mind.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

> What in your opinion is the best way to get started with CO2 keeping cost in mind.


 I think John N gave you the answers to that one.


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## redstrat (Apr 3, 2006)

ok, thanks again for all of your help and tips.


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## erik Loza (Feb 6, 2006)

Others have offered excellent advice and perhaps my observations can help. My current 75-gallon is the first pressurized gas aquarium I have set up and I would be glad to contrast it against others I have had that used no CO2. 

Algae growth: Previously, I had one pendant 150w MH on this tank with 8 hours of light per day. Lots of algae growth, both green hair and plaque on all surfaces. Had to scrub the tank all the time, even with a herd of young SAE's. Now, 300w of MH light on 12 hours per day. Almost no algae. About 10 small Otocinclus, two algae gobies, and a couple of small flagfish, but that's it. The plants out-compete the algae. Seriously, it is a night and day difference. From a labor standpoint alone, the C02 system makes it worth not having to scrub all the time. 

Plant growth: Plants will do OK without CO2, but the rate at which they grow with it is shocking. I never knew Anubias were capable of producing new leaves and dropping roots so quickly. Another night and day difference. 

Couldn't comment on how long that can lasts, but mine tank takes about 1-2 bubbles per second and the cylinder volume hardly changes. Aside from the initial investment, the system has been really hassle-free. I have a 10-lb. tank, surplus medical regulator, solenoid and Milwaukee controller, then Barr-style internal reactor. Once I set the bubble rate and desired pH level the first time, it just does its own thing and I don't have to hassle with it now. 

It's a little bit of a pill to swallow on the front end but the tank has been so much fun to do, the fish look great, the plants are thriving, I forgot about the cost right away. Definitely worth the investment, IMO. Good luck with your project.


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## redstrat (Apr 3, 2006)

wow thanks for the comparison, I'm really interested in adding CO2 to my setup but it may take a couple months before I'm ready to drop the cash for it. I'm really trying to do as much research as I can before I make the investment to avoid mistakes, you have all been a huge help, I can't thank you guys enough.


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

Rather than saying it's the benefits of CO2, it's really in reality a trade off.

I would certainly argue and can back it up statistically, non CO2 methods are more stable, less algae and certainly less work etc.

One of the main issues is that folks add too much light. This is the most common thing.
You can go too far the other way, adding too little as well.

Both methods work if you follow the advice and I'd say the non CO2 provides less algae over the long term.

But the trade off, CO2 allows a few more plant species and faster growth.
Like about 10X as fast growth.

Now clearly this brings in new issues, you need to add inorganic fertilizers to maintain this faster growth rate, otherwise when you run out of nutrients for the plants, then you get algae which are better adapted to lower levels than the plants can be maintained.

Plants generally respond by stopping their growth, then they make good places for the algae to grow upon.

But the plants do not out compete algae with CO2, you simply meet the plant's needs for a given high light level. The algae's needs are met either way, but the focus should *always be on the plant's needs.*
Then you will no longer have algae related issues.

Plants also will do well, very well in fact with CO2+ low light, this gives a nice trade off of low nutrient demand, while providing excellent algae mangement and plant growth.

Folks use to do this more in the past, but today many have too much light then whine and complain about all the work that's required to prune, maintenance, testing, algae blooms and the tank's are generally much more sensitive to neglect than the low light tanks.

More is not better.

There are definite trade offs within non CO2 and CO2 methods and high vs lower light systems. Knowing these trade offs helps a new person better chose a methodology that best suits their goals and habits.

Thus their long term success in the hobby as well.............

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## jude_uc (Feb 7, 2006)

I just bought a pressurized system, but previously, I was using DIY CO2. If you search for DIY CO2 on this site, you will find plenty of info. Going that route is cheaper at first but requires more maintainance and will never be as consistent pressurized. That being said, it can still be quite good.

-Adam


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