# Ludwigia sp. Pantanal



## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Looking to buy Ludwigia sp. Pantanal. Do you know of a source?

Andrew Cribb


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

www.Fishvet.com


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

Yep, I got it from fishvet.net(aquariumlandscapes.net). They sent me the puniest little stems I have ever seen: stems thinner than r. wallichii, 1-2 inches long, tiny new leaves. 1 out of 5 survived and grew up to "adulthood" in couple of months. It is just starting to branch, much smaller and slower growing than L. 'cuba'.


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## gmaniac (Apr 8, 2004)

*pantanal*

same here... ordered from the same place, got very small stems...none survived :-(


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## fishfry (Apr 15, 2004)

try contacting Albany Aquarium in San Francisco, I think they sometimes are willing to ship plants to people and they get it in sometimes....much nicer people than the things I have heard about fishvet


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Try aquabid:

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?liveplantsb&1108418037

The shipping is a bit much but I have always received much better looking plants from others in the hobby than I have from "retailers".


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

fishfry said:


> try contacting Albany Aquarium in San Francisco, I think they sometimes are willing to ship plants to people and they get it in sometimes....much nicer people than the things I have heard about fishvet


I was at Albany Aquarium past weekend. They do have some 'pantanal', in fairly decent shape. Their holding tank is now CO2 enriched. It is just called "Ludwigia species", that's the name Oriental gives it in their catalog. I think they are trying to setup for online order as well.


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Thanks! I appreciate all the pointers and advice.

The last order I received from Singapore was badly packed (in plastic with no paper towel leading to squashed mush. That was a poor deal, even if the seller used fabulous photos).

Andrew Cribb


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

Hey, Andrew!

You could've asked me to look for them at Albany... Like Sha said, there was some we saw on Saturday but it was only like two stems and they were expecting a new shipment. I just checked and they haven't updated their site: http://www.albanyaquarium.com/ but they have one, now. As already mentioned, it's labelled as "Ludwigia sp. NEW" and part of me wonders if it is indeed L. sp. 'Pantanal'. Rayon Vert Aqua has a "Ludwigia sp." that looks exactly the same as 'Pantanal', but they have the two pictured separately.

Anyway, if you're interested in getting them from Albany, PM me. I spoke do the webmaster of the site, who is sort of "beta-testing" the shipping, and presently, he's only doing so for plant orders that are $100+. And I think he's only over-nighting them.

-Naomi


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

I heard Albany Aquarium's prices are sky-high. How high are they?


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

I think I paid $8 for 3 stems of L. 'cuba'. 1 pot HC will cost $9. I paid $5 for 4 plantlets of Ranalisma rostrata. Not that bad for hard to find plants, especially locally without shipping fee.


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

shalu said:


> Not that bad for hard to find plants, especially locally without shipping fee.


Yeah! And then there's the added benefit of being able to cherry-pick. A lot of people complain about the prices, but I wouldn't call them "outrageous" at all. The fish may, for the unknowing, cause at least a mild case of sticker shock, but people don't realize that they're quarantined and that the shop absorbs all of the initial losses. Yes, it's definitely harder to have dead fish replaced, but it's also far less likely to happen, or worse, to have them spread diseases throughout your home tank. I'm too lazy to quarantine new fish, so I'd rather take my chances with fish from there than just about any place else. Plants? Since setting up their CO2-injected plant holding tank (which you can see on their website) they typically leave the store (as purchases) in better condition than when they arrived. It's really an amazing operation and if you're ever in the vicinity, it's worth checking out. Just make sure you're dressed for summer  . It's dang hot upstairs.

-Naomi


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Naomi,

Many thanks for the input. Certainly, the HC I received which originally came from Albany was excellent. I think the pricing is very fair. Consider having to get plant packages past customs these days? Not only is the paranoia level very high, but delays are already common and lead to a lot of plant losses in transit. As Naomi says, the plants actually recover and grow at Albany.

Now let's hope this L. Pantanal is one I will not be killing with kindness! ;-)

Andrew Cribb


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

Andrew, if you have trouble getting it from Albany, I might be able to spare a (healthy)stem in a month or two. It is a slow grower.


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Shalu,

Many thanks for your kindness (and warning  ). I'll let you know. I'm in this Flourite to ADA Amazonia/Powersand (when that arrives) mode and wonder if that is going to have a good effect....

Andrew Cribb

PS

I was asked to add something by Lorba (aka Roland of greenchapters.com in Singapore; "greenerist" on aquqabid.com). Roland says:


> removed at Roland's request


The bad experience I had with a Singapore seller was not with Roland. I have not bought from Roland before. If Roland wants to send me something, I could then provide a reference to his packaging skills. ;-)

Andrew


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## lorba (Feb 4, 2004)

thanks Andrew for the clarification. The PM was actually meant to clear up any misunderstandings. 

I do agree with shalu on getting whatever you can within USA. Shipping is free/cheaper, much faster and there is lesser risk in dying plants at the door.


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

Wow - this is a first! I just checked Albany's website, and this time, it actually lists "Ludwigia sp. 'Pantanal'" in their most recent shipment. So now I wonder if what I was getting and sending people was, in fact, a different species...? I'll have to get the details from the owner. I'll try and give him a call, today. 

Looks like they got in a BIG shipment! 

-Naomi


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## lorba (Feb 4, 2004)

it should look like this


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

This is what they were selling as "Ludwigia sp.":
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mizmo_naomi/detail?.dir=b26d&.dnm=d5b3.jpg&.src=ph

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mizmo_naomi/detail?.dir=b26d&.dnm=6849.jpg&.src=ph

These were taken and posted back in June. Sorry about the poor quality of the photos. Also, they were *just* added to my tank before I took the shots, so they appear slightly ratty and bent. Actually, this was probably the best shipment of this plant that they ever got. Later ones typically came in pretty beaten up with the roots rotted off. Usually, they'd recover in the store after several days but the new leaf growth would be really weird.

-Naomi


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

gnome said:


> Wow - this is a first! I just checked Albany's website, and this time, it actually lists "Ludwigia sp. 'Pantanal'" in their most recent shipment. So now I wonder if what I was getting and sending people was, in fact, a different species...? I'll have to get the details from the owner. I'll try and give him a call, today.
> 
> Looks like they got in a BIG shipment!
> 
> -Naomi


I noticed the same thing! Now come to think of it, the L. species does look slightly bigger than L. 'pantanal', could be a similar but different Ludwigia. The "girth" of my 'pantanal' is only about 1/3 of 'cuba'. Now I am going back there to get some L. species just to be sure. I am a sucker for all ludwigias and rotalas  Or Naomi, you could bring me a stem of L. species at the next plant swap meeting.


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

shalu said:


> I noticed the same thing! Now come to think of it, the L. species does look slightly bigger than L. 'pantanal', could be a similar but different Ludwigia. The "girth" of my 'pantanal' is only about 1/3 of 'cuba'. Now I am going back there to get some L. species just to be sure. I am a sucker for all ludwigias and rotalas  Or Naomi, you could bring me a stem of L. species at the next plant swap meeting.


Sha,

I called and spoke to Guy, yesterday. It should be just "Ludwigia sp." on the website. I'll e-mail you the details of how the 'Pantanal' ended up on the list. But yeah - the stuff is the same as what he's been getting since last year.

I wish I had some to bring. I gave it all away a few months after I bought it because it was taking over my 4-gallon tank. Which also reminds me - that's probably why it looked so "girthy" in the photo - it was planted in a 4-gallon so the stems looked bigger than they actually were. The new growth I eventually got was even less "wide." But it's funny that you say it's a slow-grower. It was actually one of the fastest-growing stem plants I ever managed to keep alive. Again, maybe it just seemed that way because of the small size of the tank I was growing it in.

-Naomi


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

darn, you bursted my bubble, Naomi, LOL. I was hoping to add another cool Ludwigia into my tank, but it might be 'pantanal' after all. I am not giving up yet. next time I am going to take a closer look in Albany's tank to be sure.


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## lorba (Feb 4, 2004)

you guys can try the plant emersed.

Ludwigia sp pantanal has narrower leaves, 8 - 12 leaves in a whorl. (Can't remember the number).

Ludwigia inclinata 'Cuba' has much redder stems and lesser, bigger, broader leaves.


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

lorba said:


> you guys can try the plant emersed.
> 
> Ludwigia sp pantanal has narrower leaves, 8 - 12 leaves in a whorl. (Can't remember the number).
> 
> Ludwigia inclinata 'Cuba' has much redder stems and lesser, bigger, broader leaves.


I have both 'cuba' and 'pantanal', they are not even remotely alike in the tank. I was just trying to decide the L. species in store is a third L. species nor not. Of course, it is better to find out before I spend the dollor


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

Yes, the question is not whether this L. sp. is a 'Cuba' because the shop actually sells 'Cuba.' The question is if the L. sp. is the one from 'Pantanal' or if it's some unknown species that looks virtually identical to 'Pantanal.' 

During the summer, Albany Aquarium was selling this plant in the emersed form because the submersed form kept arriving half-dead. The problem was that a lot of times, the shipment had a layover at LAX where it's very hot during the summer, and many of the more delicate plant species were arriving in terrible shape or just plain dead. So the owner thought he might have better luck with receiving the emersed form. In fact, I sent one bunch of this to "Error" but I don't know if he had any luck growing it into the submersed form. He's quite the collector and very keen with identification. Maybe he could shed some light on this. 

But it looks like this thread has been hijacked, so maybe somebody could start a new topic about this in a different forum. Sorry, Pineapple  ! Didn't mean to fly off on a tangent...

-Naomi


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

but Naomi, this thread is still relevant to Andrew's original post. He might try to get Pantanal from Albany, and we are trying to make sure that's what Albany has


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Feel free - hijack away. It's enlightening to see the interest in this plant (as judged by the number of page views this topic is getting). It looks like we need some photos to add.

Andrew Cribb


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

Whoa! I never bothered to take a look at the page views number. Hee-hee! Thanks, Andrew - I try not to get too off-topic, but I think it's just in my nature :razz: .

You're right, Sha. I've been communicating via PM with Andrew, and he told me he'd like some of this stuff in any case, so I just didn't want to beat a dead horse. That's in my nature, too :razz: . 

I'll invite Error to come and give us his thoughts on what Albany is selling. 

Lemme go try and track him down. 

-Naomi


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

I bet the massive page views are due to the fact that Andrew did not put "want to buy" in the title, and people thought they could get this plant from him


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## Error (Apr 16, 2004)

Naomi sent me some of the Ludwigia sp. Albany sells, and I'm positive that it's Pantanal.

I did, however, kill it quite well.


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

Thanks. But I'm sorry it died  . Did you ever get submerse-form foliage to grow out of it before it "poofed"? 

-Naomi


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## Aaron (Feb 12, 2004)

Here's what my Pantanal looked like. (I don't have it anymore) It came from Singapore by way of aquabid about a year ago.









I had the hardest time growing it, it always seemed that it was not taking up enough macros while the "cuba" would grow rampant in the same tank.

I too would love to try again, but alas I am here in Hawaii with no Albany Aquarium. Woe is me;(


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## Error (Apr 16, 2004)

gnome said:


> Thanks. But I'm sorry it died  . Did you ever get submerse-form foliage to grow out of it before it "poofed"?
> 
> -Naomi


Out of the three stems in the bunch, only one decided to make submersed foliage. It grew about six inches and died.


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

I am currently growing a couple stems of this species in my 10g. So far, I have been met with reasonable success with insanely high lighting (8.0 wpg) heavy iron/trace fertilization, and soft water (KH 3.5, Gh 5.. I softened it from the original GH 12 or so Chicago tap water comes in). 

It grows fast, perhaps one of the fastest in the system, although I have yet to see it branching so that I can propagate it. Unfortunately, mine does not have the amazing color I first obtained it in. That's part two of the equation...

Carlos


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

Hey, Carlos!

I remember having a problem getting them to branch. Cutting and leaving the lower portion of the stem rooted would not work, either. I think somebody told me to let it break the water's surface, and sure enough, this did the trick. I guess this would be a problem if it's a tall tank or just big, in general. But if it's a reasonably small tank, let a few of the stems hit the surface and see what happens. 

As for the color, I never figured out how to get it the same as when I first photographed it. It gradually turned mostly green with slight pink highlights toward the tips. By the time I gave it away, the stems all looked really cruddy. The roots were really healthy, though. The guy I gave them to had no problems reviving them. 

I also found it to be an extremely fast grower. Good luck with propagating it. It shouldn't be too difficult. 

-Naomi


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Perhaps it will respond to some ADA Powersand and Amazonia? When the substrate finally arrives, I will test it in that environment.

Andrew Cribb


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

From reports from my friends in Taiwan, Singapore, and HK, the "red sun plant" (Ludwigia Pantanal) only turns blood red with ADA Aquasoil Amazonia... this has been a consistent, tried and true observation of theirs.

Carlos


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

In that case, it is going to be a very expensive bit of water weed! 

Andrew Cribb


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

It is branching for me quite well, now that it grows to the top half of the tank(100 gallon, 20inches deep), I did not need to wait for it to break the water surface. I have two decent sized side branches plus 5-6 new ones forming on the top 1/3. The color is not as red as the pics on asian forums, but still quite red. I want to add that I recently accidentally induced severe case of Fe/trace deficiency by dosing antibiotics(Oxytetracycline). 'pantanal' and 'cuba' lost all redness, among other plants. New growth became white, that's true for green plants as well.

My main problem is the lower half gets little light and becomes bare. When I cut the stem and try to propogate the bare lower half, the success rate is not high. I see 4-5 branches forming on the nodes, then most of them would die back soon. But some do take hold, I think good light is important. The new growths died back when the stem was semi shaded.

Again, it is a slow grower for me, no more than 2 inches per week. I wonder if softwater makes it grow faster.

KH=4, GH=13(after Ca addition. Tap =8). 3wpg pc lighting, bulbs are more than 2 years old.

Carlos, many ADA setups list extremely low NO3, do you think that plays a part in the redness? Also the Amazonica substrate must be effeciently supplying Fe, I guess.


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## fishfry (Apr 15, 2004)

Interesting...I have never been able to get it dark red planted, the farthest I have gotten it to got it a very nice pink color. Somtimes if a stem is floating on the surface it will just start branching and the stems will be the dark red color.


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

So

- it grows a good root system which benefits from a fertile substrate like Powersand/Amazonia
- likes strong lighting (seems like MH might be better?)
- it is a slow grower (like Limnophila aromatica?)
- appreciates good fertilization, presumably Fe additions
- tends to head toward the water surface before branching suggesting it might like shallower water

There was another thread on Amano aquarium stats including NO3 levels sometime ago and it was a bit inconclusive about the <1.0ppm NO3 recorded in the ADA aquariums.

I will need some before and after photos of this one to record any success I have or failure too.

If only that Powersand/Amazonia was here already ;-)

Andrew Cribb


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## Error (Apr 16, 2004)

I just want to say that this is the single most frustrating plant I've ever tried to grow.


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

Error said:


> I just want to say that this is the single most frustrating plant I've ever tried to grow.


So I take it you've never tried that really red Nesaea sp.? I don't think I've ever heard of *anybody* having success with that one. As for myself, the plants that I *can* grow make for a far shorter list  .

-Naomi


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

gnome said:


> So I take it you've never tried that really red Nesaea sp.? I don't think I've ever heard of *anybody* having success with that one.
> -Naomi


It is turning around for me after several months of stunting and collecting algae. Seeing it growing in Albany's tank gives me more confidence.

Naomi, you should pad yourself on the back because 'pantanal' was once fast growing for you


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

shalu said:


> Seeing it growing in Albany's tank gives me more confidence.
> 
> Naomi, you should pad yourself on the back because 'pantanal' was once fast growing for you


Sha,

I was there Monday and Guy and I were looking at it. It turns out that the stems you were looking at on Saturday were probably Ammannia senegalensis because the Nesaea sp. was definitely there (2 or 3 stems of them), hiding amongst the Ammannia and they were crusted over with algae and definitely NOT looking very happy at all.

I think my 'Pantanal' was growing at the same speed as yours - it's just that 2" per week looks "fast" in a 4-gallon tank, but I suppose it wouldn't appear to be that fast in a bigger tank... If I could have grown mine as nicely as Aaron's in his picture, I might have pulled out all the other plants in that tank just so I could propagate this one species.

-Naomi


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

gnome said:


> It turns out that the stems you were looking at on Saturday were probably Ammannia senegalensis


I thought it did not look exactly like Nesaea sp. because the leaves are a bit too big. But I am quite sure it is not Ammannia senegalensis. I have it and my plant as well as the pics on the web do not look like that at all(I expect the leaves to be rolled up and curled downward). And it was NOT emersed growth, because I got the A. senegalensis as emersed growth from Jim. Sigh, another mystery plant. Maybe I will buy it next time just to see what it is and how it does in my tank.



gnome said:


> I think my 'Pantanal' was growing at the same speed as yours - it's just that 2" per week looks "fast" in a 4-gallon tank, but I suppose it wouldn't appear to be that fast in a bigger tank...
> -Naomi


Especially when it is next to its big brother 'cuba', who can shoot up 5-6" per week LOL.



gnome said:


> If I could have grown mine as nicely as Aaron's in his picture, I might have pulled out all the other plants in that tank just so I could propagate this one species.


Mine was just slightly redder than Aaron's before I dosed antibiotics. If you want to try the 'pantanal' again, I could bring you a stem at future plant swaps, maybe not the one in march.


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## gregorsamsa (Jan 19, 2005)

Hi,

i would like to share my experience on Pantanal. My 14 gallon (2x1x1feet) set up, 4x15watt fluroscent, using black quartz gravel over a cocopeat base. Co2 injected (during photoperiod, pH=6.0, kH=3.0 or 4.0, im using sera test kits so it ain't accurate)

when i first bought it from my LFS 2-3 weeks ago (approx US$4, 7 stalks) it was pale orange. I was dosing 3x a week Po4, Kno3 with traces as prescribed. But earlier this week, i dosed Florapride Red (tetraplants), i observed an intense red colourationfor the tops. 

It is now reaching for the surface and i will adopt a wait and see attitude for the branching out effect (i need it to branch out because the lower leaves are actually quite dead with algae).

now im trying to figure out what element is missing from my original dosing that florapride red has. :-s 

cheers


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## Aaron (Feb 12, 2004)

gnome said:


> If I could have grown mine as nicely as Aaron's in his picture, I might have pulled out all the other plants in that tank just so I could propagate this one species.
> 
> -Naomi


I think the color you see in the pic is the plant screaming in pain, as shortly after taking the pic and pruning the stand, necrosis set in and the stand died. I have to agree that this plant is quite difficult compared to "cuba", if it weren't the market would be saturated with it like "cuba" These two hit the scene at the same time, (over a year ago) and here we are talking about it like it were brand new.
A little OT but has anyone kept sp. Araguaia yet?


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

I went back to Albany aquarium today, had a nice chat with owner Guy(that's his name), and of course bought more plants , including Tonina species. I took a close look at the L. species, it is definitely the 'Pantanal'.


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

(Since this thread has turned at an early stage into general information about Ludwigia sp. Pantanal, I wonder if a moderator could switch this from the Sale/Trade section to a more relevant forum, perhaps the "General aquarium plants discussions"?)

A quick update for you on this one. My esteemed APC contact sent me some L. Pantanal from Albany Aquarium and it arrived on February 23 (2005). The 3 plants were long-stemmed each with a small root system. They were complete plants - not cut stems. Many of the lower leaves had already come off, but otherwise they were in good condition. Albany obviously takes good care of their plants.

I planted the stems carefully in my 30 US gallon aquarium, in Flourite, the same evening. The aquarium has been up for about 10 months. The next morning the plants pearled a little. Within 2 days they were exhibiting nyctinasty (leaves closing up at night) - but not at the same time as the neighboring Rotala walichii (jet lag?). So far, the L. Pantanal has not looked back. I have noticed a small shoot growing off the side of one stem. Here are a few photos. The plant is very pink/red (slightly accentuated by the GE9325 lighting I use which gives off a purple haze ;-) ). The specs are: 30 USG; KH/GH unmeasurably low and not boosted; KNO3 about 5-10ppm; PO4 2-3ppm; K2SO4 dosed in equal amounts to KNO3; Flourish or CSM+B according to which way the wind blows; 24-26C; CO2 1BPS into filter. Apologies for the poor photos.

2005-02-23: Ludwigia Pantanal on planting:









2005-02-28: Growth after 5 days #1 from top:









2005-02-28: Growth after 5 days #2 from side:









I will slip a Flourish Plant Table under the roots in a day or two. I suspect this plant will benefit from root feeding and can acquire from the substrate what is not in the water with regard to Ca/Mg.

It's a nice small leaved plant. More later...

Andrew Cribb


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

Holy cow! That's just awesome!!! The new growth is simply gorgeous :shock:

Sorry I didn't post sooner. It's been a very tiring week... 

Anyway, I'm so glad you're having success with it. Mine, unfortunately, is barely alive. I don't know why it grew reasonably fast and well for me last summer, but it's doing so poorly now. Oh well... I guess I'll give up on it for the time being and see if I can do something about the thread algae that's running rampant in this tank. 

I'd love to see more pictures in a few more weeks. Thanks for sharing the progress... Awesome!!!

-Naomi


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

The plants have reached the water surface and are slightly protruding now. One of them has a tiny branch developing about 4cm below the water line - that's developed since planting. One other of the original 3 stems has a side branch about 8cm down - that started growing before the plant reached me.

The lower stems are not so leafy. I imagine they would most likely die off if I cut the tops off for replanting. I'm going to leave it a few days and see what happens. Then top on or more stems and replant the tops.

This is a top view. It's as red as it looks. I accidentally dosed PO4 to about 5ppm this week and the L. Pantanal seems to have enjoyed that.










Andrew Cribb


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

Sheeeeesh! That's some happy-looking Ludwigia!!! Incidentally, did you end up putting in the root tablet? Did you notice any difference after you did that? 

What beauties... Lemme guess - you've already got a waiting list of people who want cuttings, huh  ? 

-Naomi


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Naomi,

One person on that list... ;-)

I just put some Flourist root tablets in my smaller 20g aquarium. That's the first time I used them. I haven't put any under the L. pantanal yet. Sort of playing it safe, maybe. It's just in plain old Flourite. Perhaps old is good. I have noticed the L. aromatica in the 20g has perked up quickly with a root tablet nearby. So it might come to that. I just have to summon up courage to cut the L. pantanal stem and replant. It's hard messing with nature sometimes!

Andrew


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## richy (Nov 8, 2004)

shalu said:


> I was at Albany Aquarium past weekend. They do have some 'pantanal', in fairly decent shape. Their holding tank is now CO2 enriched. It is just called "Ludwigia species", that's the name Oriental gives it in their catalog. I think they are trying to setup for online order as well.


AA will ship w/ a minimum order of $50. i believe that's their policy. check out their website http://www.albanyaquarium.com for a listing of the plants they have available. they have an impressive selection, imo.


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

I was just there yesterday and nearly cleaned them out of L. sp. 'Pantanal' due to several requests. They've gotten two new shipments since their last update (Feb.8). I'm not exactly sure what the deal is, but they should be updating with their most recent shipment, which they got on Monday. The previous one was not very big due to the Chinese New Year still being celebrated in the Far East. 

Yes, they lowered their minimum to $50, but they will only overnight it. This will most likely change somewhere down the road. 

-Naomi


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

Good grief - that should have read "Feb. 8." 

-Naomi


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## shalu (Oct 1, 2004)

Wow, Andrew, that is RED! Looks like low hardness might be the key to make it happy. Mine is just starting to rebound after my dosing of Oxytetracycline caused severe deficiencies in the entire tank. I can envision you putting it in classified section regularly soon, hehe 

Naomi, I was waiting to see updates on Albany webpage to decide whether to pay them another visit


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## Wö£fëñxXx1 (Feb 10, 2005)

Hello Andrew,
From the picture's and NFO I have gathered, the plant you have look's more like
Ludwigia sp. cuba >







<credit:Toninastyle.com

The Pantanal has more of a needle type leaf > credit: greenchapter.com









Are you sure you're ID is correct? or are these guy's wrong..just curious


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## gnome (Jan 27, 2004)

Craig, 

That's so funny! I actually sent Ludwigia sp. 'Pantanal' to Tim (of "Toninastyle"), and I'm sending him another bunch on Monday (if they don't die in my tank between now and then). I'm also the one who sent it to Andrew. I'm positive that these were not 'Cuba' because the same store also has this, and they don't look anything alike. 'Cuba' is a bigger plant and the type of red it exhibits is not like the neon-red that the 'Pantanal' can achieve. The red of 'Cuba' is more toned-down.

With no disrespect to "Greenchapter," while those photographed are better than I could ever grow, I think the leaves are not as fat and lush as they could be... Andrew's is totally taking off like nothing I've seen! I can see how you might think it might be 'Cuba.' Also, it's hard to find something to compare size in Andrew's photos. But I can assure you that it isn't 'Cuba.' Whether or not it's positively 'Pantanal,' well, I'm less sure of that, and you can read the first few pages of this thread about why. 

-Naomi


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## Wö£fëñxXx1 (Feb 10, 2005)

Hello Naomi
I know Andrew can grow some nice plant's, he definitely has a green thumb, I was just curious, because I have not had the pleasure of trying this plant yet..
I have seen a few conflicting pictures and trying to make head's and tail's of it.
Thank you for your input 

by the way, do you have an extra stem or two you could send SE? :biggrin:


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Craig,

Nice words - I'll settle for that accolade and retire now. It's absolutely not yet true.... ;-)

Good question - enough to make one want to know more and feel insecure.

The leaf is similar to the photo above in your post, in terms of shape. It's certainly not as needle-shaped as, say, Rotala walichii.

Some Internet sightings of L. pantanal:

This is very similar to the one growing here:
http://www.aqua-base.com/waterplants/gallery/pantanal_red.html

This seems to be somewhat more needle-leaf-like:
http://www.aquariomania.com.br/plantas/planta.php?id=17

Here are some Google cache photos from Rayon Vert Aqua. Most of these photos only exist in Googles cache - no more on the Rayon Vert web site. They look similar to the one growing here.

This is from Rayon Vert from the bottom of this page:










Andrew


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

I have observed this species before in its full glory. I think very few people in the USA have been able to replicate the conditions necessary for it to look its best. I know many have tried it and have been disappointed that it doesn't look as special as in the photos.

It DOES look like the photos when in peak condition!

The brilliant color you see in the Rayon Vert Photo is accurate. The color you see in Andrew's photo is actually about half of what is possible for this species. The leaves are long and flowing and can give this plant a diameter of 3-4." Imagine deep blood, brilliant red with 3-4" leaf span and a stem nearly the width of a pinky... that is Ludwigia 'Pantanal.' 

If the plant is orange, pale pink, small, or frail looking... it's not in peak condition.

Do not use the pictures of the Brazilian Ludwigia 'Pantanal' to gauge the appearance of this variety. I am positive they are growing a separate and unique variety which is not as colorful and slightly larger than the one circulating in Asia. I know that the Brazilians acually got their stock from someone within the country... in Asia, it was through a collection from Rayon Vert. This would make sense, since there is _for sure_ two varieties of Ludwigia inclinata var. verticellata within Brazil (Pantanal - reddish, Araguaia -- red stem, green foliage). Don't forget about Cuba. That makes a third. This subset of varieties of inclinata is extremely variable. I suspect there are many more of these beauties!\ still undiscovered! 

You seem to be closing in on what this plant is supposed to look like, Andrew. Congratulations!

Carlos


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