# Our Tank



## hotrodprincess (Sep 26, 2012)

Me and the girls finally got the "Tree" going in our Home School project tank. I thought I would share a picture of what we have going so far. We ended up upgrading to a 10 agueon tank with a HOB. the tank has a 15w 8,000k T8 Aquarium light. Sorta has a purple tent to it. the moss on the tree is peacock moss, Taiwan moss is on the right side of the tank and on the sponge in the outflow to the hob. Then there is Christmas moss on the rocks on the left side of the tank. We separated them so the girls could watch the differences in the growth and what they look like. We also have some dwarf hair grass growing in the tank but it appears to be going through a bit of an adjustment period and has turned a little yellow though it is starting to get a few green blades hear and there so I think its starting to come around. We did notice some new growth on the mosses today the tips have a little new light green growth on the. the girls are excited. We are also thinking of adding some tank mates. So tell us what you think of our first attempt tips and advice welcome. I have not given any ferts yet should I? any recommendations other than flourish we cant find it where we are at.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

You do have a start there. Glad your plants are beginning to settle in. You will have a midground plant on left then a low foreground plant in middle (front to back of tank) and then tree on left. You might want to think about foreground in front or at edges, midground in middle and then background in back. You could do this from the aspect of the side of the tank being the front. Are you trying to go for maybe a two island look?


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## hotrodprincess (Sep 26, 2012)

The kids basically chose where to put the rocks. We wanted more of a hill on one side but didnt quite have enough sand and both pet stores were out of the black sand so we went with what we had. We don't have many plant options hear we live and its a budget home school project. We were blessed and someone gifted us the three types of moss that we used. what other plants might be good where would you suggest to put them. would you recommend to put along the front edges? I can do a little moving when the girls are not looking lol


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Your hairgrass does not look that healthy to me. They look yellow comparing with the rest of your plants. So, it's not the colour from the light. 

Frankly speaking, I think hairgrass is harder to keep for beginners. I have never successfully kept them very well in a tank with sand - they failed to cover the foreground, grew too slow and algae took over. I can only keep them successfully with soil in emersed form. Maybe you would like to try some fast growing foreground plants such as Helanthium tenellum to quickly cover the foreground.


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## hotrodprincess (Sep 26, 2012)

totziens said:


> Your hairgrass does not look that healthy to me. They look yellow comparing with the rest of your plants. So, it's not the colour from the light.
> 
> Frankly speaking, I think hairgrass is harder to keep for beginners. I have never successfully kept them very well in a tank with sand - they failed to cover the foreground, grew too slow and algae took over. I can only keep them successfully with soil in emersed form. Maybe you would like to try some fast growing foreground plants such as Helanthium tenellum to quickly cover the foreground.


The hairgrass was the only forground plant our fish store had so that is how we ended up with it. I had origional went in looking for some crystal wort. The hair grass was nice and green tell I took it out of the pot and planted it only took about three days for it to start yellowing.some of it does have some new green growth but not much. I would gladly swap it out for something else that looked nice if I could find it cheep.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Wish I could send you some Helanthium tenellum. Unfortunately, it will not escape the immigration without facing any big trouble.


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## hotrodprincess (Sep 26, 2012)

totziens said:


> Wish I could send you some Helanthium tenellum. Unfortunately, it will not escape the immigration without facing any big trouble.


dang customs. I looked it up it is very cool looking the girls would love it.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Maybe you can try to post in this forum to see whether anyone from the U.S. can sell/spare you some. It's a fast growing plants that may grow like weeds. I am sure that some people will throw them away occasionally. I got some of mine from the bin (no kidding...I got them from the bin after aquascaping demo..haha) and a lot more from a forumer (Malaysian forum) that decided to tear down his tank.


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## hotrodprincess (Sep 26, 2012)

totziens said:


> Maybe you can try to post in this forum to see whether anyone from the U.S. can sell/spare you some. It's a fast growing plants that may grow like weeds. I am sure that some people will throw them away occasionally. I got some of mine from the bin (no kidding...I got them from the bin after aquascaping demo..haha) and a lot more from a forumer (Malaysian forum) that decided to tear down his tank.


I will look around and see if I can find someone with some or something similar. I am trying to find some different options so we have a few things to look for may be we can find something in our budget range.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Try to stick to only 1 type of carpet plants for the sake of uniform. I have multiple carpet plants in one of my tanks, I think they look pretty messy. Anyway, my purpose is to propagate them.

If you have better substrate, I would recommend Staurogyne repens in your foreground too. It's a slow growing beautiful plant but you need nutrient rich substrate according to my friend who supplied me the plant. I use ADA Amazonia as the substrate - pretty expensive soil I would say. Maybe too huge for your tree scape though.

http://www.tropica.com/en/plants/plant-articles/staurogyne-repens.aspx

Glosso does not do well in sand + garden soil and sand + root tab based on my past experience but I have seen people keeping them very well with sand + some manufactured base fertiliser/clay.

Marsilea hirsuta will be growing too slow to carpet the tank with sand + root tab.

Cryptocoryne parva will grow too slow in sand + root tab.

Lilaeopsis brasiliensis - I think they prefer nutrient rich soil too. I failed to keep them submerged. They died during conversion from emersed.

Hydrocotyle could be something you can plant along with another foreground plant. There are a few sub-species. I got mine from the garden. 

I have just listed all the carpet plants I have tried.

Here's a list of foreground plants. Not all are carpet plants (i.e. Anubias)...you already own some of them. I also don't think moss can form a carpet very well because they tend to trap too much dirt/debris in the long run. Debris + moss often lead to hair algae - I call moss as hair algae magnet. You got to make sure you "pet" your moss every week when changing water to eliminate debris from being stuck in between the moss.

http://www.tropica.com/en/plants/use/foreground.aspx


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## hotrodprincess (Sep 26, 2012)

totziens said:


> Try to stick to only 1 type of carpet plants for the sake of uniform. I have multiple carpet plants in one of my tanks, I think they look pretty messy. Anyway, my purpose is to propagate them.
> 
> If you have better substrate, I would recommend Staurogyne repens in your foreground too. It's a slow growing beautiful plant but you need nutrient rich substrate according to my friend who supplied me the plant. I use ADA Amazonia as the substrate - pretty expensive soil I would say. Maybe too huge for your tree scape though.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the list I have wrote a few down so we can keep a look out. I was cleaning the tank tonight and I noticed four of dwarf hair grass clumps have a couple new green shoots so may be there is still some hope for it we will wait a couple weeks and see what happens if nothing we will look for another option. The moss seems to be doing good there is quite a bit of noticable growth on the rocks and some on the tree I think peacock moss grows slower. The moss I put on the filter outflow seems to have some new growth too. So we are excited that some of our plants are doing good


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Keep your eye on the For-Sale forum. Sometime people offer nearly free plants. You would have to pay around $5 shipping on top of plant price. You could post a wtb (want to buy) starter package. People on the forum are pretty generous. You could also see if there is a local plant club and post in their forum that you are looking for some local-pick-up plant starter package. Local plant club members are forever trimming their tanks and have tons of trimmings. It would be neat to take the kids to some of the plant club meetings to see others tanks and they would learn tons about plants and fish keeping.


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## hotrodprincess (Sep 26, 2012)

Tex Gal said:


> Keep your eye on the For-Sale forum. Sometime people offer nearly free plants. You would have to pay around $5 shipping on top of plant price. You could post a wtb (want to buy) starter package. People on the forum are pretty generous. You could also see if there is a local plant club and post in their forum that you are looking for some local-pick-up plant starter package. Local plant club members are forever trimming their tanks and have tons of trimmings. It
> D be neat to take the kids to some of the plant club meetings to see others tanks and they would learn tons about plants and fish keeping.


we dont curently have a plant club near but I believe there is one up in st louis where we will be moving to we will definatly check it out when we get moved. It would be great to have some people to trade plants with. The girls are itching to get some shrimp I am trying to get them to wate for the moss to grow more not sure how much they need to really do good. We are watching the for sale section to see if we can catch a good deal.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Ditto to what was mentioned by Tex Gal.

Shrimps - you got to be aware that they're more sensitive than fishes. If you have soft water, you may have to add a few tiny pieces of coral. My record was killing cherry shrimps within less than 30 minutes in my tank. I hope you won't break my record..haha. Try with hardier/cheaper shrimps such as ghost shrimps, Yamato/Amano shrimps or cherry shrimps first. I cannot offer more advice other than this as I am a serial killer of shrimps


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## hotrodprincess (Sep 26, 2012)

totziens said:


> Ditto to what was mentioned by Tex Gal.
> 
> Shrimps - you got to be aware that they're more sensitive than fishes. If you have soft water, you may have to add a few tiny pieces of coral. My record was killing cherry shrimps within less than 30 minutes in my tank. I hope you won't break my record..haha. Try with hardier/cheaper shrimps such as ghost shrimps, Yamato/Amano shrimps or cherry shrimps first. I cannot offer more advice other than this as I am a serial killer of shrimps


last time we tested water hardness it was in the colored box right under the one ld but labled hard but above the neutral box not sure what the number was. I will see if I can scroumge up a water hardness test stripdo yoi think shrimp would do ok in that. We will probably just have cheep cherrys or ghost because thats all thats available near us. And they are budget friendly


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

FYI, I think you should not mix ghost shrimps and cherry shrimps together. Ghost shrimps could be quite aggressive sometimes. I remember mine tried to fight against my finger  Try with small number of them for a few weeks and see how it goes. Don't do the same mistake like I did - I bought half a dozen of cherry shrimps to see them dead one after another in less than 30 minutes. Make sure the inlet of your filter is blocked by filter wool to prevent the shrimps from being sucked into it.


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## hotrodprincess (Sep 26, 2012)

totziens said:


> FYI, I think you should not mix ghost shrimps and cherry shrimps together. Ghost shrimps could be quite aggressive sometimes. I remember mine tried to fight against my finger  Try with small number of them for a few weeks and see how it goes. Don't do the same mistake like I did - I bought half a dozen of cherry shrimps to see them dead one after another in less than 30 minutes. Make sure the inlet of your filter is blocked by filter wool to prevent the shrimps from being sucked into it.


Thanks for the tip. the girls prefer the cherry shrimp so that is oir first choice if they dont have those we will go for the ghost. Our filter already has some panty hose on it because our betta likes to swim under it and I was worried he would get a fin stuck. We will probably start with three just because we are not sure how our betta will do with them. He is verry mellow for a betta so I think he will do fine but you never know.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Oh no! I have totally forgotten that you have a betta. I am quite sure that the betta will kill cherry shrimps...possibly ghost shrimps too since you tank is not heavily planted and it's a small tank. It's not easy to find a tank-mate for betta. Their behaviour tend to change after a certain period too. It's hard to predict the behaviour of bettas and I don't trust them. I personally call betta as "psycho fish". Some of them may even try to kill snails. So, I don't dare to recommend any tank-mate for your betta. That's why betta is too boring for my liking. 

For shrimps tank, I would only recommend ottos if you're trying to breed them.

Small fishes such as boraras brigittae, boraras maculatus and boraras merah should be fine with cherry shrimps if you're not breeding the shrimps. I am not so sure about small tetras such as neon tetra green neon tetra & ember tetra - should be fine I guess. For larger tetras such as lemon tetra, I have seen Yamato shrimps being eaten up by them. So, I won't recommend black phantom tetra, yellow phantom tetra, head & tail light tetra, pristella tetra or similar sized fishes in the same tank with shrimps. I had ghost shrimps living along with non-fancy guppies in the past simply because the ghost shrimps knew how to defend themselves and fought for food.

This is a bad news for your girls. If I were one of the girls, I will ask for another tank...hahaha


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

I agree with totziens--shrimp in a beta tank quickly become very expensive beta food. Your beta may not be an agressive individual, but all betas are predators.


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## Jonnywhoop (Nov 24, 2012)

haha great looking scape, I bet your kids must be excited to see the turnout.


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## hotrodprincess (Sep 26, 2012)

Jonnywhoop said:


> haha great looking scape, I bet your kids must be excited to see the turnout.


They love seeing the moss changes they go in each night when they feed the fish and discuss which moss is growing the fastest. And what one looks the best. its already grown since I posted this picture. We are now having a bit of an issue with some brown alge on the glass. I am trying to figure out whats causing it hopefully we will get rid of it soon. We have put some moss in our filter outflow and its growen a lot. But im not getting enough surface adgitation so I might have to trim it a bit. We are also trying to find some other plants that would look good in our scape.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Brown algae/diatom is usually caused by:

1. newly setup tank - we call it new tank syndrome. The plants do not have the full capacity to absorb all the nutrients yet.

2. lack of light


Sometimes it will go away by itself once your plants are established. However, I would encourage you to do something about it by cleaning up. Ottos will help getting rid of brown algae too and they should be compatible with betta. I also need to get some ottos for myself to fight diatom at my in-law's tank today.


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## hotrodprincess (Sep 26, 2012)

totziens said:


> Brown algae/diatom is usually caused by:
> 
> 1. newly setup tank - we call it new tank syndrome. The plants do not have the full capacity to absorb all the nutrients yet.
> 
> ...


I have been wiping it off. We are getting eight hours a day of light. We got a timer so that we wouldnt have to remember to turn it off and on. I hope its beacause our tank is still sorta new. And will get better in a few weeks..


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

8 hours is fine. If it gets worse, just reduce it to 6 hours temporarily. 

I've just got some ottos today. They usually do a pretty good job in cleaning up brown algae/diatom. You should consider getting some of them.


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## hotrodprincess (Sep 26, 2012)

totziens said:


> 8 hours is fine. If it gets worse, just reduce it to 6 hours temporarily.
> 
> I've just got some ottos today. They usually do a pretty good job in cleaning up brown algae/diatom. You should consider getting some of them.


We havent added any tank mates yet because we are expecting a move in the next month and I want to make it as easy as possible to move I figured the less live stock I have to move the better.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Wise decision...


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## hotrodprincess (Sep 26, 2012)

totziens said:


> Wise decision...


We only have the betta right now so He will travel well in rubber maid type container. I plan on draining as much water as I can get out of the tank and bagging my filter media in some water so I don't louse my good bacteria. I might bag the rocks that have moss on them in a little old tank water just so they stay wet on the way. Its only about 2 hour may be a little longer with the kids. So everything should make the trip ok. Just less fish to acclimate when we get there.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Moss can go without water as long as it stays wet/humid. You can just pack the moss in a plastic bag tightly sealed without any water.


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## hotrodprincess (Sep 26, 2012)

totziens said:


> Moss can go without water as long as it stays wet/humid. You can just pack the moss in a plastic bag tightly sealed without any water.


that would be a little easier I just figured I should keep it in some water since it was shipped in a small amount of water I figured that was the best way to transport it.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

2 hours journey is a short one. Moss can survive in a sealed plastic bag with humidity inside a fridge for up to 1 month  My friend had accidentally kept her for up to 2-3 months when she totally forgot about the moss - the moss still survived. Moss is the easiest plant to store


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## hotrodprincess (Sep 26, 2012)

totziens said:


> 2 hours journey is a short one. Moss can survive in a sealed plastic bag with humidity inside a fridge for up to 1 month  My friend had accidentally kept her for up to 2-3 months when she totally forgot about the moss - the moss still survived. Moss is the easiest plant to store


Good to know its hardy. So far its growing well in our tank hopefully it will be an easy move. I have to ger some water conditioner because we will have city water there so I need to get something to treat the water when we get there to refill the tank.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Diana K used to have a very good guideline on what to do with your tank when moving house. She wrote it in another forum but I have failed to locate it. Maybe you would like to send her a private message. Just let her know that I am the one recommending you to her. I am sure that she doesn't mind assisting you.


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