# Lighting for New 125



## snichols (Jun 18, 2013)

I am new to here, and really planted tanks. I have a 125 set up with MGOPM, sts, and a gravel cap. I have started the plants, too. I am thinking of 10-12 angels started at dime size, 50 or so neontetras, 10-15 rummy nose, 10 or so emerald corys, shrimps and snails. I also have a 55G sump. This was a reef tank, so it has 2 weirs for overflow and 4 returns. I am moving about 8x tank, not including sump gallons. Does this seem like reasonable stocking?

I have: 2 Limnophila hippuroides (Limnophila aromatica 'hippuroides') 2 Ludwigia glandulosa) 10 Narrow Leaf Chain Sword 2 Rotala Indica 2 Echinodorus bleheri 2 Sword, Red Rubin (Echinodorus 'Rubin) 2 Alternanthera reineckii 10 Vallisneria "Dark Red Jungle Val" Right now I still have my reef lighting (2) 400W MH. I know this is high. I would prefer to use LED lighting and am leaning toward the current satellite + at 4'. My question is, do you think two of these mounted side by side would provide enough light for plant growth of the plants? That would leave me 1 foot short on the sides. Should I add 2' long also? My other thought is supplementing with the finnex ray 2.

Pics are posted in the El Natural forum with title of New 125.

Thanks,

Steve


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

With such a large fish load, especially the angelfish, you are setting up for disaster. Note that planted tanks made by people that know this and that about them never have a lot of fish. Add super strong light to the equation and you will have your hands full.

Be prepared to take care of the tank or else. Especially if you decide that dumping fertilizers in the water is a good idea because most folk on the internet say it is the best.

Practical advice:
Aim for a tank completely void of any visible trash. Use mechanical filtration AND a lot of biological media. 8x the tank volume of water flow could be enough, not enough, or just right - it all depends on how you make the water move inside the tank. There are enough pictures of how ADA sets up their flow - find them on google. Also double check that "8x" number with a gallon jug and a timer. It could be much less than what you think.

Keep the halides. If you think LEDs are the best thing since sliced bread so be it. You can get the same results with fluorescents (and at a lower cost) but it is all up to you. Run the halides for 1-3 hours a day in the middle of the day. Make sure there is enough CO2 available at that time of the day. The rest of the day the light is just enough to make the tank look good. This alone wil save you a lot of trouble even if you pollute your water with fertilizers.


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## snichols (Jun 18, 2013)

It is not my intent to dump fertilizer, that is part of the reason for the fish load. They and the snails will make the fertilizer themselves. The 8x flow rate comes from when I had it set up as a reef using all the same pieces parts. I took out the power heads that gave me 30x flow. I will check the way the flow works. I can tell from my reading that planted tanks aren't like reffs, much to my surprise.

I don't like the idea of not being able to see my tank with no lights on, though. The reason I am looking at LED is electricity cost and control ability. One can control fluorescent, but it is much more expensive to dim. Do you think keep the halides and running them for a short duration as you suggest and supplementing with LED for looks would work? 

Thanks,
Steve


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

What I suggested is what ADA does. ADA is the prime commercial outfit in this hobby which brings very much every single new person to the hobby, but most people don't want to know how ADA sets up and runs a planted tank. ADA's approch to running a planted tank is nothing new but it has been packaged to look sleek, easy, and the bottom line is it makes the most sense indeed.

About the light:
Be realistic - when do you actually look at the tank? Are you home all day? If not - the tank does not need strong light. What I'm trying to save you here is frustration. 
Yes, combining the halides with any other kind of light is fine. The idea is to not overdo the light. This will push you down a road of chasing all kinds of problems and usually adding more and more equipment, fertilizers, maintaining more often, etc.

Planted tanks differ from reefs in one fine point - the plants need to have waste available to grow. Nitrate, Phosphate, and what not. The stuffs you actively remove from a reef tank are actually needed in a planted tank. So the question is how on Earth can you keep a clean tank if you have to add trash to it? ADA's approach is to use:

+ rich and active substrate (one that not only provides nutrients, but actually sequesters them from the water, does not compact over time, and provides more N than P at all times)
+ very good biological and mechanical filtration (their biomedia is pumice which serves both functions)
+ smart water flow pattern (involves the water from the entire tank in a directed circular motion)
+ daily dosage of tiny amounts of fertilizers (never have ferts floating free in the water)
+ light periodization (as I suggested it to you) 
+ oxygenation at night (to helpt both plants and biofilter)
+ CO2 concentration as low as possible (to not stress the biofilter and to not make plants grow in an unmanaegable way)

The fertilizers are added in such small amounts that a test will never detect them (N is less than 1 and P is less than 0.1 or 0.05). Also remember that the substrate sucks the ferts so the water is left void of nutrients but they are available to the plant roots. Basically the waste is both there and it is not there. But the plants can get to it. Algae can't. There a few other fine points which amount to basically lubrication of that system so the parts work together even better. One example is to never use too many fish so there are minimal free floating ferts in the water. Now you see where I came from with my original post telling you your tank will be overstocked.

In contrast the usual way of running a planted tank in the US is to stress one single thing - fertilizers added to the water. That works but puts the tank at a constant risk of having an overnight algae explosion. The only explanation of how that actually works is "If the plants grow well algae will not grow." I'm not kidding - noone has any other explanation how it all works. Many people do exactly that and will tell you how it is all working just fine. You decide what makes more sense to you - ADA's packaged deal or what most internet folk say works (N=5-10, P=1-2, plus more ferts floating free in the water at all times too).

Be forwarned - you will not find good, concise information about how exactly ADA does things. You will find step by step advice at best. But you will find lots of posts about fertilizing your water as if there is no tomorrow. It's up to you how you will enjoy this hobby.


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## snichols (Jun 18, 2013)

Maybe I am not making myself clear. The only reason there are halides is because I had them from the reef I took down. I want to get rid of them and use other lighting. I am only using them now until I figure out the best lighting for the tank. Thanks for the other info!


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

The best is LED. I suggest you find an internet outlet that allows you to choose every single LED's wavelength and place it exactly where you want it on the fixture. That way you can really provide a kind of light that is way better than anything else.

Good luck.


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## snichols (Jun 18, 2013)

Thanks for the help, niko! I will look up the ADA stuff. I think my substrate is pretty rich, so I am ok there. The mechanical filtration is taken care of in the sump, but I will need to imvestiget the biological further. I have seen people talking about several especially buildmyled so I will check them out.


edited to talk about the lighting.


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