# Barley Straw and Ultrasound



## Beasts (Apr 14, 2006)

I'm looking for comments from people who have tried barley straw or ultrasound to clear green water in their aquariums. I have seen both methods recommended for use in outdoor ponds but can find no information regarding their use in aquariums. Both are supposed to be safe for fish and aquatic plants. Effectiveness requires long term use. The barley straw particularly intrigues me because I could just place a bag of it in my sump, out of sight, and let it work. The ultrasound units which I have found are for volumes of water much larger than any home aquarium and quite expensive (they start at $795.00). Research is being done by the company I spoke to to develop a unit for the aquarium trade.
Also, how about using filter feeders (clams) to help with suspended algae? I understand that at some point in their life cycle they attach to fish but if I kept them in my sump would that prevent that from occuring? And I believe that successfully keeping them in an aquarium is difficult.
I just cleared a GW problem in one of my aquariums using a combination of methods. I cut the lighting from 14 hours per day to 10 and I reduced the wattage by half. I also diatomed using both diatom powder and Super Char. It is, however, quite possible that the algae is disappearing as it uses up the nutrients suspended in the water from planting a large number of stem plants. As part of my substrate I used clay from the bottom of our pond and it is very slow to settle out and simply will not filter out. It is also possible that the added competition from the new plants helped. One thing I am fairly sure of is that I will never really know what happened!
The primary aquarium that I am concerned with is 400 gallons (10' x 2.5' x 2.5') with a wet/dry filter, 850 watts of T5 flourescents and an automatic CO2 injection system. 
Thanks for any and all help, answers and any other feedback.
Beasts


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I have looked into the ultrasound idea a few times, but as you noted, there aren't any units made that would fit into an aquarium. I did some scaling calculations to see how much power would be needed and it is very little. I also looked to see if I could buy an ultrasound transducer to experiment with, but that size is sold only for ultrasound cleaners, so I couldn't find anything that seemed appropriate for an aquarium. This would be a good field for some of us with a scientific/engineering bent to play around with, and for sure it is a product that would have a big market if sold at a reasonable price (<$100).


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Pretty cool idea to battle simple organisms with ultrasound - algae for example. The pictures on company web sites are pretty impressive.

But what happens with the simpler organisms - the bacteria? How can one adjust the frequencies to where the algae dies but the bacteria stays intact? 

If the ultrasound contraption is set up to kill only cells that float by whatever emits the sound then I don't see much difference from a UV sterilizer.

--Nikolay


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Maybe the ultrasound could be tuned to kill other algaes, like BBA or... GDA or... Clado.

...like a dream come true XD, i'll take that for my x-mas present santa!


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

The barley straw idea however, should be relatively cheap for someone adventurous to try out.


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## DataGuru (Mar 11, 2005)

I think the barley straw is used mostly for hair algae. It's supposed to decompose and release peroxide. 

Daphnia are the cheapest solution for clearing pea soup algae.
a UV unit clears it fast, but it's pricier.


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## Beasts (Apr 14, 2006)

Daphnia! Now that is a solution I hadn't heard mentioned before. I'll have to look into it. Thanks


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## yxberia (Apr 19, 2005)

UVC is the best choice as price is affordable and maintenace is low. Get a good brand, the bulb will last a year.

From what I have learnt, a decompossing barley straw will release phenolic compound that is suspected to suppress algae growth. So it won't work instantly if the decompossition does not take place effectively.
Thus, barley straw needs to be well aerated. Hidding them inside filter may not be that effective. It is best kept afloat with strong current running through. 
I was once considering using barley straw (a new product from Sera) in my canister filter, but get turned down by these facts.


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## southpark (Oct 9, 2006)

i helped out a restaurant that insisted on placing their little 75 gallon aquarium by the window wall (in texas, in full view of the afternoon sun) which caused an explosion in green water every week or so

i tested a few methods to combat the green water including a reduction in light (doesn't help, since the window provided all the necessary light to grow all the algae possible)

i used a vortex diatom filter (this worked perfectly, but proved to be a nuisance to run every week)

i then turned to attempting to control it via natural/planted methods

using anacharis and wisteria and duckweed

the plants managed to stall the green water for weeks at a time, but algae still slowly crept in due to the massive amount of sunlight the tank got in the summertime..

the owner finally commented on the less than desirable duckweed (it was carpeting the top of the tank) and i removed it at their request.. and lo and behold 2 days later the tank turned solid green..

apparantly duckweed excels at sucking nutrients out of the water column =o)

so finally i resorted to a UV filter of the appropriate size (13watt) driven by a powerhead

they have remained green water free for several months now and i have not observed any negative effects on the fish in the tank (of course.. these are cheap fish hardy tetras and guppies)

i have had problems when the powerhead gets clogged or jammed from detritus and the flow of water slows through the uv filter, it tends to heat the water noticeably, but not any more than your standard light fixture.. but for a 400 gallon tank.. you'll need to purchase a significantly larger UV filter.. but i'm afraid of what effect it may have on your aquaria and microbe population in an environment that large..

i might suggest trying the willow method for green water prevention?


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## Beasts (Apr 14, 2006)

I have put a few willow branches in each of 3 aquariums, including the 400, and put some barley straw pellets in a mesh bag in the filter sump of the 400. Results will, I'm sure, be some time in developing. I think I will be fine with the barley in the sump since it sits right in the highly oxygenated flow of the filter.
The GW has returned and I think that the problem is that I returned to using all 850 watts of my T5s prematurely, although I left the duration of the lighting at 10 hours per day.
I also tried replacing the filter foam in my wet/dry with a much finer element (100 microns) but it clogged up so fast that I was faced with a back-up problem in the filter. I would like to try some of the foam you can purchase at craft stores but am concerned about contamination. Has anyone any experience using such a material. I need something finer than the really coarse material included with the filter, which lets most everything through.


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## yxberia (Apr 19, 2005)

I wouldn't use fine foam, not even in my smallest aquarium as they get clogged up in days. And I wouldn't use other foam that is not for aquarium/pond used. Some are treated with chemical so that the foam stays fluffy.

I use medium pore size bio sponge, mostly black color. They are durable and could last forever. Bio sponge works as both effective physical and biological filtration. With wet/dry filtration, I believe the result would be unbeatable once biological filtration matured. 
The arrangement/order of your filtration media is also the main factor. Whichever way you arrange, just don't let too much sediment clog up the biological filtration.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

niko said:


> Pretty cool idea to battle simple organisms with ultrasound - algae for example. The pictures on company web sites are pretty impressive.
> 
> But what happens with the simpler organisms - the bacteria? How can one adjust the frequencies to where the algae dies but the bacteria stays intact?
> 
> ...


Here, we run an ultrasonic cleaner to clean debris and stains stuck to objects. I think it'd be more efficient than a regular UV sterilizer. However, in a small aquarium environment, it might be overkill for a simple case of green water. Just killing the spores in the water will get rid of it. No need for micro-mechanical agitation of everything else in the tank.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Ultrasonic cleaners remove soils from just about anything placed in the bath. They would clean algae off of plants and hardware, as well as off the glass. Whether they would kill algae spores I don't have any idea. I suspect they would harm the fish before killing any algae. But, I wish there was some research on this technology in aquariums.


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## doug105 (Oct 28, 2005)

___the owner finally commented on the less than desirable duckweed (it was carpeting the top of the tank) and i removed it at their request.. and lo and behold 2 days later the tank turned solid green..

apparantly duckweed excels at sucking nutrients out of the water column___ 



This happened to me also, but in reverse. I had been fighting green water for
months doing major water changes at least twice a week. This was barely keeping the greenwater at bay. So one time I cranked the CO2 up a bit and the duckweed started going wild. I decided to let it grow to blanket the surface and maybe cut down on available light. The duckweed got thick on the surface, and within a week the greenwater was gone. Now, if I could only get rid of the duckweed......

Doug


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Do you have goldfish? =) You can RAOK it on the forums for anyone wanting to feed their goldfish.

I just scooped mine out with a net everyday for 3 or 4 days straight. It comes back occasionally, but not too badly.


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## Beasts (Apr 14, 2006)

I would try the duckweed except that anything on the surface of the water is drawn into my prefilters within seconds. I used hornwort for a while but I had to tie it to the aquarium lid to prevent it from clogging the prefilter intakes and eventually it broke down making a mess of the aquarium substrate. It did, however, help keep the water clear.
Following the addition of barley straw, dropping the wattage of my lights by half again (2wpg to 1wpg), and planting willow branches, my green water has disappeared again. The willow branches haven't changed much so I'm guessing that they haven't had much effect. I am becoming a little bit cocerned that if they do grow, removing them from the substrate will create a huge mess. Keeping my T-5s at one watt per gallon may be a key but I sure love the look of that extra brightness. The down stream side of the bag containing the barley straw extract has a thick coating of brown fungus type material on it, which I would love to have analyzed, so apparently something is happening in there.
Through all of this the plants remain relatively healthy but, even with the clear water, they are not pearling except where the leaves are damaged. And, regardless of the number of bubbles per second of CO2 which I add to the system my pH steadfastly refuses to drop below7.5 from a starting point of 8.1. My water is somewhat hard. Is there a buffer in hard water which might prevent the CO2 from lowering the pH?
Thanks all for an interesting discussion,
Beasts


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## pbohart (Feb 16, 2005)

*You can buy barley straw extract.*

I used to add this to my tank. I have seen several different brands that have come way down in price.

I was adding this to my tank for a long time.....I finally stopped.....

You can buy a 16oz bottle for like $10 now.


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## mrbelvedere138 (Jan 18, 2006)

While I value trying new things in the planted tank hobby, balancing fertilizers, light, and CO2 works better than any chemical solution.


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## Beasts (Apr 14, 2006)

mrbelvedere138 said:


> While I value trying new things in the planted tank hobby, balancing fertilizers, light, and CO2 works better than any chemical solution.


Dennis,
I'm confused. (I must be one of those stupid people you're talking about. ) The manufactured fertilizers and CO2 you mentioned are all chemicals. And manufactured chemicals at that. The barley straw is a naturally occuring, unprocessed material which, apparently, selectively prevents the growth of algae, also chemically. The other difference between the two is that one method encourages the higher plants while the other discourages the algae. It seems to me that both methods could be used in conjunction to reach the desired endpoint more quickly while working toward balancing fertilizers, light and CO2 as the long term solution. Just a thought.
Beasts


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