# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Substrate with Loaches and Cories



## imported_River (Nov 20, 2005)

Hi,
I'm new and am planning a 29 gal planted aquarium and was wondering what kind of substrate you all would suggest for using with kuhli loaches and cories? I've read that you need a smooth substrate for both of them (kuhlis having "smooth skin" and liking to burrow and cories damaging their barbells by foraging in the substrate). I have been told by someone at a LFS that you don't have to worry about that. Does anyone have any suggestions and/or experiences with this? I was thinking of using Eco-Complete, do I need to use a layer of gravel over it or would this be smooth enough for them? Any feedback is appreciated.








Thanks


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## Jane of Upton (Jul 28, 2005)

I've come across that "warning" about sharp substrates and cories. I'm not sure about the kuhli loaches, but as far as cories are concerned, I've kept various Cories, Skunk Botias, Striped Botias, Clown Loaches and Yo Yo loaches in standard aquarium gravel, in fine sand (also "warned" about in places), coarse sand, pool filter sand, etc. and have seen no adverse effects. My best guess is that this "Information" originated when it was "fashionable" to use fractured glass as an aquarium substrate. My first goldfish tank used this, it was like splinters of glass that had been minimally tumbled (so you didn't hurt your hands working with it, but it wasn't a pleasant experience), and a variety of colors were available. This was back in the mid 1980's, and, paired with the rise of undergravel filters, it was very popular. Since then, I've seen this "gravel" available less and less. But I think that THAT was what gave rise to this notion, as it was not uncommon to find a piece of this substrate that was still very, very sharp. Theoretically, it is possible, but a corydoras' barbels are SENSORY organs, and would/should immediately detect a sharp surface, and avoid it. Granted, our fingers are sensory in nature too, and we manage to injure and cut them, so I'm not saying its impossible, but unless you're using the glass shard "gravel", I think it is unlikely that a catfish would lose a barbel on it. 

Like I've said, I've used lots of different aquarium gravels, as well as playbox sand (silica) and pool filter sand (often touted for having irregular edges, as its more effective as a pool filter medium) and I've never seen one of my corydoras catfish (everything from tiny pygmys to the jumbo bronze ones) have any noticable injury to their barbels. 

The only injury I've seen in corys or loaches was when I used a "regular" net on a large loach - they have sharp spikes under their eyes, that they can stick out when very startled as a defense mechanism. Before learning this, I netted a large loach, went to transfer him into a transition bucket, turning the net inside out near the surface of the destination water, to minimize water transfer. But, he didn't just fall out, and I couldn't figure out why he was "stuck" in the net. I finally shook him out. OOps. Later, he had a bit of what could almost be described as a black eye - puffy and discolored around the eye. Since learning about their eye spike, I've been extra gentle with loaches, netting them, then holding the net near the surface for a moment so that I LIFT them out like a hammock (not head first, etc.). Then, when I'm putting them INTO the tank or transition bucket, etc, I'll put them and the net all the way into the water and let them "right" themselves, and find their own way out of the net. With this technique, I think they probably retract their eye-spike, as I haven't had one get tangled up since that early experience.

Sorry, I got off on a tangent there. Anyhow, if you're using a standard, aquarium-recommended gravel or substrate, or sand, I don't think this would be a problem. Feel it in your own hands - if you can rub it between your palms without hurting the skin, it should be fine. It may feel rough, but if its not painful, your fish should be OK.
-Jane


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

Just to add to what Jane said.... I've seen kuhlis burrow in both sand and smoth, medium sized gravel so I think either would work, just a matter of preference. I will say, though, that I had a scool of about 6 trilineatus cories in a 38G that had coarse medium sized gravel and the barbels on all of the catfish wore down to little nubs. The fish were otherwise healthy, but I felt bad b/c they looked so much better with their long, pointed little barbs... Anyway, whatever gravel you go with, I'd go with smooth, just to be on the safe side.

As for netting them, I totally echo Jane. I would def. use a fine mesh net with either of them, or at least be very gentle releasing them otherwise. I once injured a beautiful, $20 cory who got tangled in my net and have been super super careful ever since!

-ricardo


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## imported_River (Nov 20, 2005)

Hi,
Thanks for all the feedback. I have been wondering about this subject for awile. I think what I am going to plan on doing is having the bottom layer of substrate as Eco-Complete and then a top layer of smooth substrate. Does this sound ok? Would this not work for some reason?

River


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## thirdchild (Oct 29, 2005)

Well if it helps any, I just planted with eco-complete and the very top layer is pretty powdery. I didn't find it particularly pointy. Looks and feels more or less like dirt. If you're on a budget, you might try it without the layer of gravel.

I've hadn'tkept loaches or cories before on this though.


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## KRiley (Jun 30, 2005)

Eco Complete is fine for cories at least, I dont know about the loaches. I actually bought 3 Cory. sterbai at an auction and they didnt have any barbels, they were completely gone. I was worried that the Eco was going to be to sharp. But sure enough, its now two months later, and they now have their barbels back.


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## imported_River (Nov 20, 2005)

I didn't know that cories' barbels could grow back thats good to know.
I just got done planting my tank tonight with just eco-complete and it doesn't look like it would be too rough for the fish. So I am gonna see how it goes and if I need to I will re-plant it with a layer of aquarium gravel as a top layer. 
I have to say with this being my first planted tank and first experience with aquarium plants, I now have a new appreciation and respect for all the aquatic gardeners out there. I think it took me probably 4-5 hours to unpack, prepare the plants and then plant them in the tank. And the more I look at the tank the more I see that needs rearranging. I guess it's a good thing I like to play in the water.








I am looking forward to finally watching my plants and fish grow, instead of just haveing an empty tank.
Anyways thanks for all the feedback and if anyone else has any feedback or advice please indulge me.


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