# help me.. BBA problems in my tank



## viral (Oct 21, 2011)

From last 15 days, strands of BBA started showing in my tank. I doubt it came with a plant, i brought from my friend. I had dosed API algaefix every 3 days as per instruction. 50% waterchange done everyday and co2 dosing increased to 3-4bbps. Fertilizer dosing reduced to half (only 5ml leafzone weekly). But no major improvement seen in my tank. Pl. guide me how to cope up with this problem. Also my dwarf HC has started dying and dicoloration in few plants seen.


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## Yo-han (Oct 15, 2010)

First of all, 15 days is not that long to see result. When you change CO2 or ferts (or both) it usually takes about 3-4 weeks to see result. Try to reduce the amount of light, the length of the photo period and/or the height the lamps are placed above the tank. Daily remove everything that can produce ammonia (dead leaves, dead fish, excess food) and focus on plant growth, and most important, be patient!


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## viral (Oct 21, 2011)

Yo-han said:


> First of all, 15 days is not that long to see result. When you change CO2 or ferts (or both) it usually takes about 3-4 weeks to see result. Try to reduce the amount of light, the length of the photo period and/or the height the lamps are placed above the tank. Daily remove everything that can produce ammonia (dead leaves, dead fish, excess food) and focus on plant growth, and most important, be patient!


thanks for the suggestions. I will concentrate on plant growth and be patient to see the changes.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

How old is the tank and what light are you using. Apart from the algae those plants don't look that healthy, which of cause will always increase algae problems.


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## vancat (Nov 5, 2004)

Seachem Excel may help you.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Forget the CO2. BBA shows up in both non-CO2 and CO2 supplied tanks.

Make sure your tank is pristinely clean. It is not clean now. And it will not be clean after 1-2 water changes although it may look like it is.

This is a question of maintaining the tank clean. Because of that BBA is not the worst algae you can get but many people think so.


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## TarantulaGuy (Apr 15, 2009)

niko said:


> Forget the CO2. BBA shows up in both non-CO2 and CO2 supplied tanks.
> 
> Make sure your tank is pristinely clean. It is not clean now. And it will not be clean after 1-2 water changes although it may look like it is.
> 
> This is a question of maintaining the tank clean. Because of that BBA is not the worst algae you can get but many people think so.


+1.

I have a fair bit of experience with BBA. CO2 does not influence it in any way if you run a dirty tank. And it does like dirty tanks. Clean up *all* the excess rotting organics in your tank and bba should starve itself out. Once your tank is clean, start killing off BBA with concentrated dosing with a syringe of Excel or hydrogen peroxide.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

If nothing works try reducing the CO2. Apparently this here ADA guru has success getting rid of BBA by reducing CO2:

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/asian-spirit.18340/


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## Apprentice (Sep 17, 2008)

While I do believe that reducing DOC's helps in fighting off and preventing algae I do not find that once the algae has taken hold it will not eliminate it. Slow it down. Some cases depending on type stop it from spreading. 

Also keep in mind the ADA guru, if he is following standard ADA protocol, ( fertile substrate, lean water column dosing and moderate light par values) may find that by increasing Co2 dosing which in turn leads to increased growth, thus increased nutrient uptake which may not be readily available. Particularly in the beginning when ADA tanks usually just dose K. Reducing Co2 solves problem. 

E.I. tanks usually the opposite. High light. Easy enough. High ferts. also easy. High Co2. Not always as easy. Beginning tank setup plants acclimate. Few weeks later plant bio-mass increases. Co2 now most likely nutrient under E.I. dosing regime to be deficient. Whala! BBA makes unwanted appearance. Solution. Increase Co2.

My point. Every tank is different. Understanding the why will help more that just following one solution or another. Just taking either of the 2 solutions above without relating to your setup only gives you a 50/50 shot at success.

As far as existing BBA. Spot dose with H2O2 3 percent solution up to 2mls per gal with filters turned off. Use an oral syringe with a 1/4 inch airline attached to make it easier to get at those tight spaces. As far as dosing over plants, say HC go lightly. Keep in mind you don't have kill it all in one shot. Let sit for 30 minutes. Turn filters back on. Wait 48hrs and repeat if necessary. If you don't have an oral syringe just go to any pharmacy and ask. Most will give you one for free. Clean everything as Niko said. Check nutrient levels (nitrates, phosphates, and Co2). Make sure water flow is good. If you don't have a nutrient rich substrate or your nutrient enriched substrate is old (12 to 18 months), consider adding some root tabs for insurance.

Best of luck.


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## Apprentice (Sep 17, 2008)

While I do believe that reducing DOC's helps in fighting off and preventing algae I do not find that once the algae has taken hold it will not eliminate it. Slow it down. Some cases depending on type stop it from spreading.

Also keep in mind the ADA guru, if he is following standard ADA protocol, ( fertile substrate, lean water column dosing and moderate light par values) may find that by increasing Co2 dosing which in turn leads to increased growth, thus increased nutrient uptake which may not be readily available. Particularly in the beginning when ADA tanks usually just dose K. Reducing Co2 solves problem.

E.I. tanks usually the opposite. High light. Easy enough. High ferts. also easy. High Co2. Not always as easy. Beginning tank setup plants acclimate. Few weeks later plant bio-mass increases. Co2 now most likely nutrient under E.I. dosing regime to be deficient. Whala! BBA makes unwanted appearance. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif Solution. Increase Co2.

My point. Every tank is different. Understanding the why will help more that just following one solution or another. Just taking either of the 2 solutions above without relating to your setup only gives you a 50/50 shot at success.

As far as existing BBA. Spot dose with H2O2 3 percent solution up to 2mls per gal with filters turned off. Use an oral syringe with a 1/4 inch airline attached to make it easier to get at those tight spaces. Let sit for 30 minutes. As far as dosing over plants such as HC. Go lightly. You don't have to get it all at once. Turn filters back on. Wait 48hrs and repeat if necessary. If you don't have an oral syringe just go to any pharmacy and ask. Most will give you one for free. Clean tank as Niko stated. Check filters for good flow. Check and adjust nutrient levels (nitrate, phosphates, and Co2). If you don't have a nutrient rich substrate ( ex. ADA) or you have an old nutrient rich substrate (12 to 18 months) add some root tabs for insurance.

Best of luck.


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## Yo-han (Oct 15, 2010)

Apprentice said:


> While I do believe that reducing DOC's helps in fighting off and preventing algae I do not find that once the algae has taken hold it will not eliminate it. Slow it down. Some cases depending on type stop it from spreading.
> 
> Also keep in mind the ADA guru, if he is following standard ADA protocol, ( fertile substrate, lean water column dosing and moderate light par values) may find that by increasing Co2 dosing which in turn leads to increased growth, thus increased nutrient uptake which may not be readily available. Particularly in the beginning when ADA tanks usually just dose K. Reducing Co2 solves problem.
> 
> ...


 Amen to that That is really good advise, explaining the basic methods. I only have BBA now and then in my EI tank, never in my ADA wannabe tank, and increasing CO2 helps for me. But apprentices advise is probably as good as possible with the knowledge we have today.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

I like that explanation too. Because it shift the focus of dealing with BBA from the popular advice to raise the CO2 to the pants growth. I've tried increasing CO2 in a few tanks with BBA and nothing happened. I don't remember well but the plants were not growing well.

One thing about the ADA guru's succesful BBA erradication is that we don't hear about ADA tanks getting BBA very often in the starting stages. If the ferts in the water are low and the plants are still growing roots then we should hear about all kinds of algae popping up and being easily dealt with in the initial stages. I'm not sure that's the case. To me the ADA method is vastly superior to EI exactly because it does not give room for the algae to explode. They can show up but the growth will be much slower compared to an EI tank whose water is full of everything plants and algae need. That point has been made a few times here and there and I think that people somehow miss it. 

After this discussion it looks like one needs to fight BBA with both a cleaner tank + make the plants grow.
The good plant growth may mean adjusting light, or flow, or CO2, or ferts. As I said - I never found that high CO2 kills BBA. Now I think I've had other issues. Great write up. Apprentice!

Three more things. I don't remember if I posted on APC about them:

1. Recently I switched to a new trace mix. I had been using a 7 year old Plantex. Turns out it was old. With the new traces the tank changed within a week. And the BBA disappeared or it is well on its way to disappear (small black dots left). Ok, this is all have to say about good plant growth and BBA. A single tank observation.

2. Had a tank with some wild fish. No CO2, low light. Didn't notice the fish had gotten territorial with age. BBA appeared in the course of 2-3 days. A lot of it. I found dead fish. Changed water a several times. BBA disappeared as fast as it showed up. I repeated this a few times until a single fish was left. Every time the BBA showed up when there were dead fish. And it went away with small and frequent water changes + scrubbing. I atribut that to the early action - the BBA was not established yet. That to me is an example of "dirty tank = BBA". Once again - a single tank observation.

3. Tank covered with BBA so badly that I wish I had a picture of it. Actually it was very beautiful. No CO2, low light. Imagine a 6' tank and 4 ft. are taken by a bunch of Manzanita branches. Now image the wood being covered with BBA that is up to 3/4" long and undulating in the current. No wood is visible. There are blacks, greys, purples, reddish and even ink-blue colors. Result of neglect for months. I got rid of that BBA with small and frequent water changes + scrubing too. To me this is an example of established BBA being gone because of clean water. Again - this was a single tank observation.

I mention the single tank observation because often I wonder how many times people have seen what they claim to be more or less a definite find. 

Overall I think that I will have a new advice to give to the next poster that asks about BBA: Clean the tank and make the plants grow well.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

If you have fish please dont use stuff like algae-fix.It puts a 'hurt' on fish.

BBA is a result of 2 things out of whack.Usually fluctuating CO2 and low nitrate, high iron. Try keeping your CO2 steady at 30ppm (min), lower your iron dosing and raise the nitrogen levels to approx 20ppm. Also, increase flow all areas of the tank.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

BBA will grow in any setup it it's dirty. It doesn't matter if it's low/high no co2/co2. The whole co2 to fight BBA is based on what? Plant Mass. Without enough plant mass for given setup wha is constant or high co2 going to do? The one variable that will work in any tank is organic control. The more you control the organics the more flexiblity you have with light, plant mass, stocking, etc.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Hmmm, I said to keep the CO2 steady at 30ppm. I don't consider 30ppm high but rather a normal level.

Yes, dirty a tank with high organics would be a problem. However having ample CO2 available for the plants they would be able to assimilate some of those organics. Having excess CO2 and not enough food for your plants isn't like having excess food/organics and lack of CO2. The latter will result in algae. BBA also thrives on high iron levels.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

Hi Newt, I was really just making a general statement about co2 being the cure all. It's not, it needs a certain amount of plant mass to be effective, many setups don't have it and all I see is increase your co2 until your fish gasp. It's ideal that each is as clean as can be in terms of decayiing waste, but of course dosing needs to be done to make sure the plants are feed.


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Agreed


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## deric79k (Oct 13, 2012)

normally i will off the light for 3-5 days, add excel , clean the filter . after few days , BBA will less min 50 % . hope this can work on ur tank


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## viral (Oct 21, 2011)

houseofcards said:


> How old is the tank and what light are you using. Apart from the algae those plants don't look that healthy, which of cause will always increase algae problems.


Plant don't look healthy because I dosed api algaefix as per instructed amount. Few of my plants died. I always under dosed algaefix than recommended amount.


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## viral (Oct 21, 2011)

niko said:


> Forget the CO2. BBA shows up in both non-CO2 and CO2 supplied tanks.
> 
> Make sure your tank is pristinely clean. It is not clean now. And it will not be clean after 1-2 water changes although it may look like it is.
> 
> This is a question of maintaining the tank clean. Because of that BBA is not the worst algae you can get but many people think so.


I will clean each and every corner of the tank. I hope it may help me reduce BBA growth.


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## viral (Oct 21, 2011)

deric79k said:


> normally i will off the light for 3-5 days, add excel , clean the filter . after few days , BBA will less min 50 % . hope this can work on ur tank


flourish excel not available in my city. I hv cleaned the filter, reduced the fert dosing and 50%water changes daily. The tank is slowly showing improvement.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

Manula cleaning and water changes ok, but make sure you don't stop the plant growth. You said you have reduced the ferts. 

Do not forget that the goal is dual - to clean the water of invisible organics (visible dirt too of course) AND make the plants grow well.


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## viral (Oct 21, 2011)

niko said:


> Manula cleaning and water changes ok, but make sure you don't stop the plant growth. You said you have reduced the ferts.
> 
> Do not forget that the goal is dual - to clean the water of invisible organics (visible dirt too of course) AND make the plants grow well.


thanks Niko. Will keep this in mind too.


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## viral (Oct 21, 2011)

Apprentice said:


> While I do believe that reducing DOC's helps in fighting off and preventing algae I do not find that once the algae has taken hold it will not eliminate it. Slow it down. Some cases depending on type stop it from spreading.
> 
> Also keep in mind the ADA guru, if he is following standard ADA protocol, ( fertile substrate, lean water column dosing and moderate light par values) may find that by increasing Co2 dosing which in turn leads to increased growth, thus increased nutrient uptake which may not be readily available. Particularly in the beginning when ADA tanks usually just dose K. Reducing Co2 solves problem.
> 
> ...


I hv started spot dosing H2O2 (6% sol.) so i reduced the dosage to half of ur suggested value. Now BBA hv started detaching from the tips of dwarf hairgrass. Hope the tank will turn back to normal in few weeks. cleaning every corner to tank is set to top priority.


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