# Plants and Under-Gravel Filter



## greatalbu (Apr 6, 2007)

Hi.
I have no hands on experience with plants. 
I have read a lot that roots and undergravel filters do not get along well. I understand the flow of water is too swift for roots. 
Could I not encase roots in a medium with peat moss and jobe fertilizer sticks or such. All encased in say cheese cloth or wifes stockings. In effect a root ball of nutrients and root media.
Then place ball in my gravel layer? Maybe flattened out.
I will start with Jave fern, a DIY co2 system. I have 100 watts in a 30 gallon light wise.
I like the java fern because it does not need to be in gravel. What other plants are like this?
So my biggest problem is my UGF. I will not be rid of it.
Thanks.


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## dapellegrini (Jan 18, 2007)

Try any kind of moss, anubias, Bolbitis heudelotii, and all of the different variations of java fern. There are a lot of options with these plants alone. UGF are typically not recommended for planted tanks. I am not sure why you would go to such elaborate ends to try and keep your UGF, but I am sure you can find some kind of hack that will 1/2 work for you.

My .02 is to stick with the plants I listed above.


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## greatalbu (Apr 6, 2007)

Hi. Thanks for your info. I need the UGF for biological filtration. Have a large fish load. Everything pretty well self sufficient. Do not wish to upset balance. Will add plants slowly with monitoring.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

A canister filter provides much better biological and mechanical filtration. Get a larger tank or give away some of the fish. Overstocking is an open invitation to disease and high level of stress among the occupants. An UGF also provides very little current for healthy plant growth.


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## greatalbu (Apr 6, 2007)

Thanks for your reply Furballi,
Can't afford a canister. Been using UGF for years. Fish load has been constant,almost two years now.
Only found 2 half eaten red neons one morning. Culprit was my angle I'm sure. He was removed to another tank until the neons grew larger.Two episodes of ich from non quarantined introductions. Dealt with those no problem.
Tank is pretty self sufficient. Just the regular gravel vacuum.
Question. You state UGF does not provide adequate flow over roots?
I use a power head on my riser and I thought UGF's provided too much flow for plant root absorbtion.
I also have a hang on the back box filter mostly for water polishing.
Thanks.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

greatalbu said:


> Thanks for your reply Furballi,
> Can't afford a canister. Been using UGF for years. Fish load has been constant,almost two years now.
> Only found 2 half eaten red neons one morning. Culprit was my angle I'm sure. He was removed to another tank until the neons grew larger.Two episodes of ich from non quarantined introductions. Dealt with those no problem.
> Tank is pretty self sufficient. Just the regular gravel vacuum.
> ...


My 50 gal tank has one Aquaclear 300.

Plants have roots, and these roots will eventually clog your UGF.


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## Tsquare (Feb 9, 2007)

When I had UGF I got great root growth but little greenery. When I got rid of the UGF the roots were so tangled in the filter i had to cut them out. Fish did OK though.
Gene


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## greatalbu (Apr 6, 2007)

I think I should stick to those plants that attach to surfaces. the only one I know is Java fern and i presume mosses.


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

Other plants that can be tied and will eventually adhere to driftwood are the Anubias and the fern Bolbitis heudelotii. Go to the plantfinder, on the right is the category "Aquascape Placement" select "Epiphyte" and you'll get a list of things that don't grow in the substrate. You could also use floating plants, if that interest you.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

Anubias' roots will eventually dig into the substrate. Same with Java ferns. Almost any plants with roots, will eventually clog up the UGF. Again, UGF is effective only for low load, low flow, and low maintenance system.

A heavy load tank must rely on a power filter (HOB) or a canister filter for effective biological and mechanical filtration. A decent power filter will cost around $29. I've been using the same Aquaclear 300/70 filter for my 50 gal since 1999. It takes less than 5 minutes to clean the filter.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produ...ll&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/215175/product.web


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Sorry but can't agree with that furballi. Used UG on a number of tanks at various times, including a tank full of baby koi and goldfish that was rather overstocked. That filter bed put up with more dirt than any other tank I've ever had and I never registered a nitrite spike, despite regular, rather paranoid, testing.

I have, and I also know many other people who have, used them on cichlid tanks where not only have the fish been stocked at high levels to disperse agression amongst a larger number of fish (mbuna) but also where the cichlids have dug the gravel and exposed the UG plates, yet the filter continued to perform it's duty! My small tanganyikan tank had breeding colonies of N.multifasciatus and N.brichardi (both from wild fish) and was very overstocked at times with all the babies. The multifasciatus also excavated all the fine gravel from their territory, yet they thrived and bred for years. The only filter in this tank of delicate fish was a UG with a powerhead.

They are very resilient filters and, as long as they are regularly maintained to remove the detritus at regular intervals (depending on the load obviously) they have always performed brilliantly for me. This always took the form of a regular cleaning with a gravel cleaner at every water change, no more involved than cleaning my External, just a bit more disturbing for the fish, not that they ever seemed to mind.

Of course they aren't good if you want to use fine sand or for plants rooting in the gravel, but Greatalbu has thought of this and has planned to use plants that won't have many roots in the gravel, if any. He has also stated that he does not want to switch from his UG so I really don't understand why you insist on keep telling him to get rid of it. It works for him and he seems happy with it; there's more than one way to do things you know!


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

ed seeley said:


> Sorry but can't agree with that furballi. Used UG on a number of tanks at various times, including a tank full of baby koi and goldfish that was rather overstocked. That filter bed put up with more dirt than any other tank I've ever had and I never registered a nitrite spike, despite regular, rather paranoid, testing.
> 
> I have, and I also know many other people who have, used them on cichlid tanks where not only have the fish been stocked at high levels to disperse agression amongst a larger number of fish (mbuna) but also where the cichlids have dug the gravel and exposed the UG plates, yet the filter continued to perform it's duty! My small tanganyikan tank had breeding colonies of N.multifasciatus and N.brichardi (both from wild fish) and was very overstocked at times with all the babies. The multifasciatus also excavated all the fine gravel from their territory, yet they thrived and bred for years. The only filter in this tank of delicate fish was a UG with a powerhead.
> 
> ...


Why don't you create a survey asking who's using UGF for a planted tank?


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

furballi said:


> Why don't you create a survey asking who's using UGF for a planted tank?


You didn't say anything about planted tanks in your post. You said, "Again, UGF is effective only for low load, low flow, and low maintenance system." I disagree with this statement and hence my response.

I did mention planted tanks in passing in my response. I said, "Of course they (meaning UGs) aren't good if you want to use fine sand or for plants rooting in the gravel". I think the vast majority of planted tanks would fall under either, or both, of these conditions. In Greatalbu's case though he has thought of an idea that will probably work well with his set up.

And since when did anyone say you have to do what the majority of people do, or even what one other person does? What if everyone used the same exact filter? Would that mean another method wouldn't work as well, or even better. If people didn't try things then we probably wouldn't have injected CO2, EI and PPS to mention just a few or people using soil in tanks. Experimentation is the lifeblood of this hobby IMO. My point was trying to be that Greatalbu is happy with his UG and is asking for help on growing plants with it. He's not after people simply telling him to change his filter. UGs work and while they may not be most people's choice that does not mean they aren't useful and effective filters in the right situation.


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## greatalbu (Apr 6, 2007)

Thank you very much Ed Seely. Very thoughtful of you.
I love my UGF. Its GREAT for biologic filtration. I think of all those little bacteria eating up all the nastys in my tank and its just amazing. All the gravel surface in total square area of each piece combined for bacteria growth is phenomenal. Handles my fish load fine. With I might add hardly any help from me.


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## NatalieT (Mar 20, 2007)

You could just plant any rooted plants in pots, then sit them in there. Easy to re-arrange, too. (You might have to watch out for roots growing through holes in the bottom of the pot, and into the gravel and filter.)

Natalie


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

Even if the roots did start to block the UGF, wouldn't the plants be adding to the overall filtration in the tank? The plants would be taking up nutrients and providing surface area for bacterial colonization. Even if gunk accumulated around the roots under the UGF, the roots would keep the area aerobic through normal metabolic processes. I know I've seen threads where someone has a working UGF and healthy plants so it seems it can be done. To me, the benefits of healthy plants would seem to be greater than any decrease in the UGF's capacity.


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## freydo (Jan 7, 2006)

the problem with UG filters and big root plants is that it would be a royal PITA if you wanted rescape or need to move those plants, because they would intertwine with the UG tray. the tray could be yanked out, causing a pretty mess. that's why in that respect, UG filters aren't a good choice for planted aquariums.

but as been mentioned, using plants having rhizome would work out well in this setup.

good luck with the setup greatalbu! post pictures when you can, so we can see the progress.


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Can't wait to see the pictures too. A set up with just plants tied onto rocks and wood could look really unique - No pressure!!  
Good luck.


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## freydo (Jan 7, 2006)

any pictures yet???? huh, huh?


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## Freerider (Nov 8, 2006)

I use pots heavly in my tanks and with a little aquascaping you dont even seem them. Of course to many pots will block the UGF so if you used mostly Anaubis and Java fern and moss then added a couple potted plants as accents i think you will be able to achieve a nice planted tank with the UGF! The bonus to pots is you can change the substate depending on the plant, they are very easy to move and wont mess with you plants roots,and in your case they will protect the UGF from the roots. Pots also make it easy to sell your plants back to a LFS. One of the best tanks i had was a 5 g with an undergravel filter which was powered by an aquaclear mini (i modded the uplift tibes to fit the mini intake) fully loaded with crypts. The crypts loved the UGF and quickly took over the tank. I ran if for a year and had no problems despite the massive growth of the crypts.
Good luck


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## greatalbu (Apr 6, 2007)

Pictures?!!
I don't even have my plants yet. Nor have I made my co2 system. I'm searching online for a ceramic diffuser. I'm pricing plants from lfs and mail order. Lfs won't have a new shipment till Monday.
Working ten hours a day with three kids and a wife leaves little time. Even vacuuming gravel is calming for me.
Oh ya I have a pleco, he loves veggies, I seen yesterday some plants an anubias strain is not tasty to herbivors. Now I must research this. 
So i think pictures may take awhile.
thanks for asking.


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## essabee (Oct 11, 2006)

I have been in this hobby from my school days, more than 40 years now, and I am a DIY aquarist, a tribe more suited to the UGF than the present day tribe of 'Off the shelf aquarist'.

UGF is a much maligned system which has been buried live and kicking by bad journalism from the manufacturers of canister filters and “of the shelf aquarist”, and declared dead.

I have resurrected it and use it in every aquarium I have, save and except my Q which has no substrate. All my aquariums are planted. I redid several of my aquariums over the years, sometimes even after 5 years of their setting up because of change in my postings when in service, and other than some fine sand, never found any other debris.

This is how I set up my UGF:-
1)	I cover about a third of the aquarium floor from the front with UGF plates/packs.
2)	I then connect the plates with a ½” pipe line to the rear corners of the aquarium, having riser connection with the plate at every 10-12” apart.
3)	At the rear corners I connect 2 power-heads to the two ends of the pipe, each having a flow capacity of ¼ the aquarium volume per hour. 
4)	I then make a 3” wall behind the UGF plates using glass strips stuck with silicone rubber to the floor and acrylic with a window where the pipe-line is.
5)	To the output of the power-head I fit a perforated pipe, with the end plugged. I normally make the perforations in the manner that the out flow is directed to flow forward and upwards this help the debris to move forward from under the plants and keep their foliage relatively clean.
6)	I then cover the UGF plate with 2” of the finest washed river sand which will not pass through the slits in the UGF plates. The sand is obtained by first screening river sand through a wire mesh of the grade just above the width of the UGF plate slits, reject the pass-throughs; then again screening it to remove the very coarse grains.

The limitation of the UGF is you cannot plant on the area where the plate lies. The only maintenance that a UGF needs is to check that the power-heads are working, and gravel vacuum of the sand above the plate at regular water change times.


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## greatalbu (Apr 6, 2007)

Regardine last post.
I have an idea that I could place a saucer under the gravel sitting on the ugf and above that in the center of the saucer place my rooted plant. If not a saucer then a flat object say a plate of plastic. A plastic tub lid. This would restrict flow of water through gravel in that area above ugf slowing water over roots.
Opinions?


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## Freerider (Nov 8, 2006)

essabee:

Do you have any pics of your setup? It seems like you have alot of thought into this setup and pics might shed some light on the 3" wall and how if fits with the UGF plates. I assume you are only planting in behind the 3" wall?


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