# CRS dying filter set up or something else?



## plamski (Oct 27, 2009)

Hello. I just start with CRS and I have problem with shrimp’s dying.
Tank is 20gal long with sponge filter in one side and Aquaclear 50 in another side. In HOB filter are 2 different size mechanical filters, carbon filter and seachem purigen. All water parameters are OK except PO4 - 1ppm.Can carbon rice the PO4 and can this be a problem? Substrate is Turface pro sport.
Temperature 72F,PH-6.5,GH-5,KH-1.CO2 0.5-1bps thru 1" diffuser. Food is Shirakura, Mosura, algae wafers .


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## James0816 (Oct 9, 2008)

Your parameters are pretty far apart from my CRS tank. Not saying that it's the issue or anything.

My parms:
Temp: 78
pH: 7.4
GH: 7
KH: 6

Substrate is pretty much the same as I'm using SMS.

Couple of quick questions for you if you don't mind...

Has the tank been set up for a while?
Do you notice any particular time when you find the losses such as shortly after a water change?
What are the parms for the new water you are using during water changes as opposed to that of the tank?


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## JohnPaul (Aug 28, 2006)

Need more details...


You are talking Crystal Red Shrimp, correct? If so, your pH and other water conditions look fine.
What do you mean by "all water paramenters ok"? Does that mean ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are all at zero? 
How long had the tank been set up before adding the CRS?
How many shrimp are in your tank? What is the largest number you had in the tank before your die-offs began?
What is your feeding regime? How much, how often?
Do the shrimp show signs of stress before dying, e.g. become lethargic, or start turning a milky white (that can be hard to see with CRS's I admit due to the strong coloring of their shells), do they seem to be having problems swimming...anything like that?
Any live plants? If so, are you positive they were pesticide-free? Do hou have any anubias species?
Do you dose fertilizers or any other chemicals at all on a regular basis?
Has that tank ever in its past (even if years ago) been dosed with a medication containing copper (many ick medications are copper-based)
How frequently do you do water changes and how large are they?
Do you lose many shrimp at once, or do you just periodically lose one shrimp at a time?


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## plamski (Oct 27, 2009)

JohnPaul said:


> Need more details...
> 
> 
> You are talking Crystal Red Shrimp, correct? If so, your pH and other water conditions look fine.
> ...


Hello. Yes those are Crystal red and black shrimps. 
Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are all at zero.
It was set up for 30-40 days before shrimps to be introduced.
Those are 3x20 gal Shrimps tanks only I did start with 20 crystal shrimps in each tank -3 different sellers. There are 5 RCS in each tank too. No RCS dead I thing.
They start dying on third week. 1 dead per day last 2 weeks, only two days there was 2 dead per tank. Tanks are with the same parameters. On 2 of them I have problem with S,S+ and SS shrimps, on third tank with CBS which are low grade mortal rate is 50% less overall. I can expect tanks only after work 6.30pm till 1am
Light are ON for 12h, 24W 6700K single T5 bulb. Size vary ¼" to ¾".I did take a look under microscope and there are no any visual problems. The shell is very easy to pill off but probably this is normal for small creatures 3-5h after their dead.
Water change 15-20% every week.RO water + Equilibrium and some old sea mud.
I fed them 1,3,5 day 3-4 pieces of crab cuisine or shirakura shrimps food which are 1-2 mm big.
I did use small plastic cap to feed them in order to remove leftover food after 4-5h easily
On 2,4,6 day I dropped one spinach life for 2-3h only. Day 7 is starving day.
The shrimps are not to active they walking around slowly after that they are sitting on one spot for 20-30 min. Almost no swimming. Can't see any color difference from before.
Plants are cabomba , moss, hygro and some Limnophila. I have them from my high light tank with cherry shrimps which are dying too with the same rate but I tough that is because of high CO2 40-45ppm .
Hm&#8230;&#8230;..I never thing about that. No anubias species.
I use to dose ferts 1/10 of regular EI dosing + some excel ones a week which mean 1/30 overal for a week.
Medications are never used.


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## JohnPaul (Aug 28, 2006)

Well, I'm not sure if this is good news or bad news, but nothing in your routine immediate jumps out as a cause of shrimp deaths. That's good in the sense that it doesn't sound like you are doing "anything wrong," but bad in the sense that when someone isn't doing something wrong and yet shrimp are dying, it can be very difficult to figure out what's going on.

Super clean water, pH perfect, temperature great...so the water seems fine. I've never used a CO2 system but as long as you know your CO2 values are "normal" then that checks out fine too.

I'm assuming you have an in-house RO system, yes? Does the system completely remove any chlorine/chloramine in the source water? I've heard differing accounts of the effectiveness of (small) RO systems at completely and totally removing chlorine and chloramine. Since you didn't mention treating your water with Prime (or some other dechlorinator), I figured I'd mention it. Shrimp would be highly susceptible to poisoning from either of those, at far smaller concentrations than fish. And among shrimp, CRS--especially the (more inbred) higher grade CRS--would be more susceptible than Cherrys.

Pesticide residues are always a worry, whether it's from plants (if you got them from any source other than one of your own tanks) or even from something like the spinach you feed. While in general there is agreement among shrimpkeepers that blanched veggies once in a while are good for shrimp, more than one shrimp owner I know who was suffering from "mysterious" shrimp deaths saw the deaths stop once he stopped putting ANY store-bought veggies in his tank (including "organic" veggies). Basically, if he didn't grow it himself, it didn't go in the tank. And the deaths stopped. 

The amount you are feeding your shrimp overall strikes me as way too much. The most common error in shrimp keeping is overfeeding. If a tank is established and has a nice layer of biofilm and hopefully some algae on the surface of hardscape, substrate, etc. then you probably only need to feed once every 3-4 days (period), and when you do, just a small amount. 

Those are a few more thoughts off the top of my head.

P.S. -- plamski, I sent you something by PM.


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## plamski (Oct 27, 2009)

One thing that I forgot is DIY aluminum chiller. Aluminum is anodized to prevent water quality.


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## virgo888 (Jun 25, 2009)

CRS do not like warm water. I had alot die when the house got warm due to hot weather.


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## bluegardener (Jun 5, 2006)

Does the anodized aluminum have direct contact with the water? Not sure if zinc would be harmful but it's an idea.
Have you tried changing the carbon in your filter? I'm curious if this would help since activated carbon has a short life span and the shrimp were fine for 3 weeks.
Also, you found the dead shrimp? This seems unusual to me since shrimp's favorite food is shrimp and my shrimp start eating a dead shrimp immediately. I would stop feeding your shrimp almost entirely. Either JohnPaul is right and overfeeding is the problem, or the shrimp are so stressed by something else that they aresn't interested in food and you feeding them would only make tank conditions worse. Don't do this forever, just try it and see if anything improves. Good luck.


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## plamski (Oct 27, 2009)

bluegardener said:


> Does the anodized aluminum have direct contact with the water? Not sure if zinc would be harmful but it's an idea.
> Have you tried changing the carbon in your filter? I'm curious if this would help since activated carbon has a short life span and the shrimp were fine for 3 weeks.
> Also, you found the dead shrimp? This seems unusual to me since shrimp's favorite food is shrimp and my shrimp start eating a dead shrimp immediately. I would stop feeding your shrimp almost entirely. Either JohnPaul is right and overfeeding is the problem, or the shrimp are so stressed by something else that they aresn't interested in food and you feeding them would only make tank conditions worse. Don't do this forever, just try it and see if anything improves. Good luck.


Yes aluminum is inside in to the water. I have carbon filter but didn't replaced it for more than 40 days. Pack was huge and I thought that will be ok for 2 months.CRS don't eat dead bodies at least mine. I removed the chiller and replaced it with fans 71-72F water now. I feed those 2 x a week. Replaced equilibrium with Mosura GH buster. No dead for last week. The same filter setup with old carbon and old purigen. Water changes 1x week 15%+ prime. Maybe tank wasn't cycled enough long or who knows.
Now I'm in progress with new setup: Amazonia aquasoil I in order to stop CO2.Will add bacter 100 and green bacter. I'm not sure do I have to use carbon and purigen into the filters. There will be sponge filter too.Will report result after 2-4 weeks.


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## tex627 (Nov 2, 2008)

no need for carbon. just purigen is good enough. I have a feeling it might have been the equilibrium that were killing your shrimp. also, feed VERY little. its actually better IMO to feed daily as long as its a very small amount. I literally feed just crumbs to my shrimp nowadays.


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