# Is this a crypt?



## Chris. (Dec 22, 2008)

I picked this up years ago from a buddy that was moving and I can’t remember what he called it. There is a crypt I found online that looks similar but maybe someone can give me a definitive identification on it.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Possibly C. x willisii or C. x lucens. But I believe definitely a Cryptocoryne sp.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

https://crypts.home.xs4all.nl/Cryptocoryne/Gallery/wil/wil.html


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

What I do not like about most of the crypt literature is they seem to focus on the flower. When crypts are fully submerged I have yeat to see one flower however those that use the crypts in bog type settings do get them to flower much more frequently.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Due to variances in how some of them grow in different conditions, submerged, it’s often that a flower is the only way to know for sure. It also doesn’t help that, as in this case, a hybrid develops and may cross multiple times leading to, for example, the longer solid green leaves that people refer to as “lucens”, or shorter petioles with nearly specked leaves (depending on conditions) of what some called “willisii”, or whatever “nevilii” was known for before it was renamed “x willisiii”. ;-) 
Lol! Crypt ID can be fun!

ETA: One book I have ("Cryptocoryne of Pennisular Malaysia") suggests (and I warn that I have not read it in some time...it's been a few years) that a parent of this hybrid will usually be C. parva. Then, depending on whether the other parent is C. wendtii (or maybe it was C. walkeri?) or C. beckettii, we will see the variations in submersed leafs and certain variations in the flower structures.
If you'd like a more careful answer/quote, I can provide later this evening.


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## Chris. (Dec 22, 2008)

I think it's this C. Parva. Anyone else see the resemblance? I think the Lucens leaves are more broad. these start skinny and get slightly wider about halfway up the leaf.

https://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/images/Araceae/parva2.jpg


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Chris. said:


> I think it's this C. Parva. Anyone else see the resemblance? I think the Lucens leaves are more broad. these start skinny and get slightly wider about halfway up the leaf.
> 
> https://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/images/Araceae/parva2.jpg


It's much too large for that. True parva is always much smaller and has leaves that are more diamond shaped.

The resource I linked to is the best one of its kind for this sort of thing.


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## Chris. (Dec 22, 2008)

Cavan Allen said:


> It's much too large for that. True parva is always much smaller and has leaves that are more diamond shaped.
> 
> The resource I linked to is the best one of its kind for this sort of thing.


I tried to dive more into the website you linked but it said it was restricted or something and nothing would load outside of the link you shared.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Chris. said:


> I tried to dive more into the website you linked but it said it was restricted or something and nothing would load outside of the link you shared.


It's a link to the Crypt pages, in the section dedicated to _C. x willisii_. After several photos that demonstrate _C. x willisii_ and it's similarities to _C. lucens_, and an example of at least some lineage involving _C. becketti_, the following is provided, and then followed by about 20 or so sources from the persons after whom many of our plants are named:

"The most 'dramatic' change in the nomenclature of Cryptocoryne for the aquarist was made in 1976 by Niels Jacobsen when he proposed to change the name of the very popular aquariumplant C. nevillii into C. ×willisii (see the arguments on the C. nevillii page). Up to now there are even nurseries and wholesalers who still use the old name. As things can be complicated, it turned out that the plant is a natural hybrid, so the right name is spelled with a cross: C. ×willisii. The most common type seen in aquaria (in Europe) is the top left specimen with a rather reddish limb and a yellow throat, and above the collar a narrow yellow rim. But they can have an almost black limb of the spathe, see for example Rataj & Horemann (1977). Also C. lucens, described by De Wit (1962) is one of many variations seen in this species. A great surprise to see are plants with leaves like a 'normal' C. willisii but with a spathe like a C. beckettii. This plant too must be regarded as one of the many forms of C. ×willisii, where probably C. parva is one of the parents. This subject is very interesting for hobbyists, one can 'synthesize' his own Crypts or he can try to backcrossing the hybrids, looking for the parents. Niels Jacobsen made a lot of crossings, but many more are wanted.
C. ×willisii grows in Sri Lanka in the Kandy area. The plants are very easy to cultivate in an aquarium. Most forms do not flower as easy as for example C. wendtii do."


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

The later book, "Cryptocoryne of Pennisular Malaysia", 2009) states that recent "hybridization experiments have proven" one parent of _C. x willisii _ (and its variants that some still call "lucens" or "neville", etc.) will be _C. parva_. The other parent is typically_ C. walkeri _or _C. beckettii_, and that even these hybrids can cross, over and again with _C. parva_, leading to many variants. 
Therefore, the "complex is...correctly named _C. x willisii_ Reitz (JAcobsen, 1987a)" (Othman, Jacobsen, Mansor, _Cryptocoryne of Peninsular Malaysia_, 2009).


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

TropTrea said:


> What I do not like about most of the crypt literature is they seem to focus on the flower. When crypts are fully submerged I have yeat to see one flower however those that use the crypts in bog type settings do get them to flower much more frequently.


In general I agree. But in my 20 long Walstad tank, _C. nurii_ 'Rosen Maiden' regularly sends flowers above the water surface.


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