# Would Discus keep in 'natural' tank set-up?



## Ryan! (Jan 21, 2007)

I'm keen on setting up a planted Discus tank. I've a couple of questions though. Can you have a weir/sump filter in a natural planted tank? 
Can you keep such fragile fish as Discus in this sort of set-up?


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## sb483 (May 29, 2006)

In Takashi Amano's books he shows plenty of Discus in his high-tech planted tanks; he even records the first recorded spawning of the Turquoise Discus was in one of his tanks. He writes that the Discus were kept in parameters different from their natural habitat (eg. he lowered the temperature a bit for plants to survive, and his water wasn't soft) but did fine.


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## anonapersona (Mar 11, 2004)

*variations on planted*

My discus are fine in a barebottom tank with large pieces of planted driftwood. White foam lining below the tank gives them a floor to look at, I see mostly a blue reflection from the foamboard liner on the back of the tank. My spouse likes it less than the true planted tank. Gravel vacuuming in a planted tank just seems wrong, and the discus poo so much the tank would get foul easily.

I had done some research on this at one time and my recollection was that the successful planted discus tanks had about half the stocking levels of a barebottom tank. So, you may be talking 20 gallons per fish or more. Suddenly, this means that in order to have a successful planted discus tank with the recommended minimum of 6 fish, you need a 125 gllon tank or bigger.

Meanwhile, I know some excellent fish keepers and they have not been pleased with the discus in the planted tank. That alone was enough to make me shy away from trying it..... got a 60 gallon planted and wanted to add 3 orphan discus to it, but I just can't do it!


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## sb483 (May 29, 2006)

Found somewhere with Google, one of Amano's tanks:


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## irish (Aug 12, 2006)

That almost sounds like keeping a reef setup without sand. Yes, it can be done, but....why? It seems to me that while there would be a little more work involveed in keeping a planted discus tank, it would certainly be more aesthetically pleasing. (Probably to the discus as well.)

Irish


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## SnakeIce (May 9, 2005)

I know you can, with lots of work (ie waterchanges), keep discus in about 10 gallons of water per fish, but that is way less than I would consider adequate for them. I wouldn't go less than 10 gallons per fish for adult angelfish in planted tanks, which has less than a fifth the body mass of an adult discus. I understand most don't have the means to set up a 200-300 gallon tank for 6 discus, but I seriously wonder if they wouldn't be a lot less delicate kept in more volume per fish.

Personally, a 150 or 180 is what I've set as the size threshhold to cross befor I'll consider a group of discus.


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## anonapersona (Mar 11, 2004)

sb483 said:


> Found somewhere with Google, one of Amano's tanks:


Yeah, isn't that lovely? The question is, just how big is that tank? Amano often does not show the full tank in a photo, so that may be a 250 gallon tank shot with a lot of the tank not visible. And then, how often do they tear out that groundcover to clean the poo from under it?

I've often imagined a undergravel filter style tank for discus.... a mat of green ground cover over a grid that has intake below to remove it to a wet dry with a top pad easily accessible for solid waste removal. Probably big obstacles to overcome to do that, I've not tried to think it through. Surely someone has though.

I have to siphon the waste out of my discus tank daily, they get very sad if I don't.


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## sb483 (May 29, 2006)

anonapersona said:


> Yeah, isn't that lovely? The question is, just how big is that tank? Amano often does not show the full tank in a photo, so that may be a 250 gallon tank shot with a lot of the tank not visible. And then, how often do they tear out that groundcover to clean the poo from under it?
> 
> I've often imagined a undergravel filter style tank for discus.... a mat of green ground cover over a grid that has intake below to remove it to a wet dry with a top pad easily accessible for solid waste removal. Probably big obstacles to overcome to do that, I've not tried to think it through. Surely someone has though.
> 
> I have to siphon the waste out of my discus tank daily, they get very sad if I don't.


One of the discus tanks in his book is listed as 1440 liters = 380 US gallons, so it's probably around that size. I have no experience with discus, I doubt I have the skills to keep any of the discus in your tanks alive for very long, but still, the photo shows that it's at least possible to keep discus successfully in (extra-large) planted tanks.


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## Ryan! (Jan 21, 2007)

Mmm, I think I might avoid all the hassle. I would give it a go if it wasn't for the fact that my tank has a weir/sump filter. As I understand it the surface agitation causes the CO2 to be released. I'm guessing this is a problem with these kind of filters.

I have a 210 gallon tank though which is more than enough for a school of Discus. Expensive situation when it comes to lighting though as it's 2.5ft tall, making it extra light hungry. 

It would be a waste of CO2 to have a sump filter in a planted tank wouldn't it?


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## anonapersona (Mar 11, 2004)

*still a possibility!*

Discus are still a real possibility for that tank! My 105 gallon is 28" tall, I have a big piece of branchy driftwood with anubias mounted in the upper half of the wood. It has a dual tube normal flourecent light. I run 2 canister filters and pressurized CO2 on a very low input rate. The tank has an insulated back and bottom, no gravel. The filter outputs are so that all waste is swept to one side where I can easily siphon it clean. Before every water change I use a baster to blow the waste out of the plants so I can keep it clean. I am changing water every week, 50%, which is really not quite enough. Now that I am down to 2 tanks, instead of 3, I should be able to go back to 2 water changes a week.

Really, it is the water changes that you have to consider. That vs your stocking rate. At 10 gallons per adult fish, I am pushing it. You could have 10 adults and half the stocking rate I have! One large weekly water change would do it probably.

For anubias, you don't really need to have CO2, it will do OK without, just better with.

And, anyhow, the plants are not really "natural" for discus. They are more likely to find bare driftwood natural! That would be a lovely tank with a submerged tree root collection of branches, you could try an anubias or two just near the surface, moving it lower as it grows.


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## Ryan! (Jan 21, 2007)

I want to go all out with plants and lighting. If I did do you think the CO2 levels would stay good enough for plants despite the weir/sump filter? I mean, how much of an effect is it going to have on CO2 levels?


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## onemyndseye (May 12, 2006)

Ryan.... 

a sump setup shouldnt give you any problems especially if you are going Natural (i.e. no CO2 injection)... My 30Gallon is setup this way and does very well.... infact I wouldnt setup a tank without a sump setup if I could help it. 

Take Care,
-Justin
One Mynds Eye


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## Ryan! (Jan 21, 2007)

I thought the high amount of surface agitation would release too much Co2?


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

Ryan! said:


> I thought the high amount of surface agitation would release too much Co2?


My thought on this is it's minimal as the water that being skimmed is about to lose it's CO2.
I've seen planted tanks with sump that look great with moderate CO2 used.


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## gibmaker (Jan 3, 2007)

From what I have read here a lot of people are really scared to try a planted discus tank. The first tank that I set up was a planted discus tank and to be honest with all of you, it takes no more work than a regular planted tank. I do not clean my gravel, if I do it is about 1 time every 3 to 4 months, and thats with just a regular gravel cleaner, nothing special. I have a 125 gal tank with 7 discus in it 4 out of the 7 are adult discus, I also have a descent amount of other community fish in there as well, corys, ottos, cardinal tetras, rummynose, 1 peacock eel, bristle nose, rams, dwarf frogs, ghost shrimp, bamboo shrimp, and I think thats it. there really isnt anything different about it, I do about 30 to 40 gal water changes every week and everything is healthy and active. I have been keeping discus for a while now and the ones in the tank that I mentioned above are a few years old and doing great. As far as plants go I have some demanding ones with my discus, H.C. and glossostigma, with no problems, I never had to clean my glosso or H.C. Dont let everyone scare you into thinking that it is way to difficult, because it isnt.


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