# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Zero Nitrate Uptake



## eruji (Feb 1, 2003)

Ok here is my problem, (well maybe not major problem, but my plants just dont seem to grow as fast or as healthy as i would like them to) And maybe this is why. My tank has about 10ppm of nitrates after my water change. Ive been testing for NO3 for the past 2 months. I have never noticed any uptake of nitrates. So by the end of the week its still in the 10ppm range. Im using the aquarium pharm test kit. I thought it might be the kit so i tested some distilled drinking water and it showed it as 0ppm. 

here is the specs of my tank:
20 gallon high
4 wpg
ph 6.8
ph 4
gh 11

I dose flourish, po4 and hcl

I just picked up a po4 test kit (hagen) it really sucks. extremely hard to read. I thought the problem must be because im not dosing enough po4, but the test kit shows that i have .5-1 ppm. Ive read that no3 uptake with taper off without po4. so Im currently watching my po4 levels now. 

Ive read quite a few posts of how NO3 levels drop in a balanced tank quickly. Just wondering why i dont see any drop in levels.


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## eruji (Feb 1, 2003)

Ok here is my problem, (well maybe not major problem, but my plants just dont seem to grow as fast or as healthy as i would like them to) And maybe this is why. My tank has about 10ppm of nitrates after my water change. Ive been testing for NO3 for the past 2 months. I have never noticed any uptake of nitrates. So by the end of the week its still in the 10ppm range. Im using the aquarium pharm test kit. I thought it might be the kit so i tested some distilled drinking water and it showed it as 0ppm. 

here is the specs of my tank:
20 gallon high
4 wpg
ph 6.8
ph 4
gh 11

I dose flourish, po4 and hcl

I just picked up a po4 test kit (hagen) it really sucks. extremely hard to read. I thought the problem must be because im not dosing enough po4, but the test kit shows that i have .5-1 ppm. Ive read that no3 uptake with taper off without po4. so Im currently watching my po4 levels now. 

Ive read quite a few posts of how NO3 levels drop in a balanced tank quickly. Just wondering why i dont see any drop in levels.


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## eruji (Feb 1, 2003)

btw: here is the current tank, you can get an idea of the plant load:


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## tsunami06 (Feb 6, 2003)

First of all, are you sure you are dosing
HCL? Hydrochloric acid?









If you are, stop! Also, do you use
CO2 supplementation? With that much light,
CO2 supplementation would really boost plant
growth and drive nitrate levels down.

Carlos


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## anonapersona (Mar 11, 2004)

Do you have reflectors on that light? It almost looks in the photo like the light goes straight down plants at the sides and back are dim.


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## eruji (Feb 1, 2003)

ha ha yea not hcl (KCl, i think thats right, potassium chloride)

CO2 is DIY and is in the 19-30 ppm range


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## eruji (Feb 1, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Do you have reflectors on that light?


no no reflectors, just 4 20 watt 5K bulbs staggered. the plants in the far back corners are shaded by the hydrocotyl or the powerhead.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2003)

Most NO3 are terrible for thr 1-10ppm range.
Lamott makes a good one but it's 60$+ or so.

You can get around this issue easy enough though. Call the tap water company up and ask what the N-NO3 levels are delived to the customer. Every US supplier has this info.

From there you what your tap water make up is. 
Doing a 50% water change weekly should keep at least 1/2 the water in good shape.

Add 1/4 teaspoon 1-2x a week. This will give you about 11ppm of NO3 each dose. It's very unlikely you'll need much more than 22ppm of NO3 a week if consider some from fish load.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## captain (May 12, 2006)

Is it better to do a couple of large NO3 doses per week or a little every other day? I have been doing a little every other day because I was under impression that bumping NO3 up to 10ppm (or so) would be bad for the fish. If not then I could just do a dose after the weekly water change then once in the middle of the week. 

One more question. Should you dose P when you add NO3?

-Steve
See profile for tank info


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## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

nice tank. you got everything in there to grow plants nicely, for sure.

>>'Ive read quite a few posts of how NO3 levels drop in a balanced tank quickly.'

that has been my experience. that is the day, that the water goes crystal clear suddenly.

i would check the co2 levels. pull a water sample and aerate it. if you check your tap, then your tank, it is not quite as direct and correct a measurement as aerating a sample of your tank water and checking it before and after aeration. if it was me, i'd want to see the ph rise as it off gasses. are the plants pearling? if the co2 levels are there, they should be and the plants should be growing great guns, imo. have you checked your tap for nitrates?

i would dose nitrates once a week, and see the levels drop to 0 over the next 48 hours, whatever that dose may be. nitrate is a stored, mobile nutrient. i don't dose nitrate, i have enough fish. but if i had the choice, i'd rather see it in my tank for a couple of days, then the plants grow and then dose again. also, the plants will store more than they need, to use later. algae doesn't have the ability to store much, afaik. that is the benefit.

imo, nitrate levels below 40 ppm are not harmful but i never let mine get over 15 or 20 ppm. my planted tank is always under 10.

hth, rick


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## eruji (Feb 1, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Call the tap water company up and ask what the N-NO3 levels are delived to the customer.


i did this already and they gave me a link to a pdf that had all of that info, although its a bit confusing because in the area i live we get a mix of well water (47-64 ppm of NO3) and other supplied water (0-4.6 ppm of NO3) so when i test the tap water it is in the 5-10ppm range. I just figured if most of you with balanced tanks are adding NO3 1 or 2 times a week i would expect to see my nitrates drop to 0 without any addition of NO3 for an entire week. Perhaps i have much more nitrates than my test kit is showing so it will never get to 0 by the end of the week before the water change. i do change about 75% of the water each week. Im not really concerned about getting an acurate test, just knowing when there are nitrates or when there are 0 nitrates would be fine, because then i know how to raise my tank by so many ppm according to dosing calculators.



> quote:
> 
> would dose nitrates once a week, and see the levels drop to 0 over the next 48 hours


rick, what is your po4 level in your tank, how often are you dosing it and how much are you raising your po4 level each time that you dose.



> quote:
> 
> if you check your tap, then your tank, it is not quite as direct and correct a measurement as aerating a sample of your tank water and checking it before and after aeration.


is this a way to determine if my co2 levels are correct? this is what i notice, out of the tap my ph is about 7, when i do a water change by the end of the day my ph is 6.8 then by the 2nd day my ph is at 6.6 this is where it stays.


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## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

>>'rick, what is your po4 level in your tank,...'

he he, i only get into my water chemistry, when i have problems. at the moment, the plants are cooking, and the algae is clear. in my heavily planted tank, running 5 months or so, a 35 gal, i have 5 apisto cacatoides, 12 beckford's pencilfish, 7 silver hatchets, and 3 dwarf bushy's. they are not spared on the food, if that gives you any indiction of what i'm doing. i dose tmg twice a week, about 1/4 the recomended dose. my ozelot sword, (my organic iron test kit) is nice and red. all other plants are doing well too. they are pruned every week, when i vacuum the bottom. my co2 levels are 15 ppm, i checked that on the weekend, by removing a sample, checking gh, kh and ph before and after aeration. fyi, a ph sample will keep and the colour will not change for at least 24 hours. this is a good graphic illustration of the colour change.

i think that there are enough variables concerning ph, that the only way to be sure on your co2 levels, are to remove a sample of your water, and actually SEE the ph difference after aeration. f/i, my tapwater comes out of the tap at ph 7.2- 7.4, and after aeration, goes up to 7.8 - 8.0. sometimes these numbers are a little askew. i have pretty close to 28 gals of actual water in the tank. for water changes, i do only 5 gal each time, but i do them pretty often. i alternate r/o and aerated tapwater, to leave me with a 50/50 tap mix. i do water changes when i think i need to, usually 2x per week on this tank.

while this may not seem scientific, i am a firm believer, that you must be able to watch the changes in your tank, to see what is going on. when you have questions or problems, that is the time to test. the old guys never needed test kits, and they did pretty well. i think that it is important that i build my skill as an aquarist, and rely on the test kits only when i cannot figure things out any other way.

imo, your tank should be bubbling nicely, and the co2 levels would be the first area i would test, before anything else.

btw, i am humbled by the others' experiences here, and am not near as experienced as most of these guru's. if they have any thoughts about my advice, i would welcome any input and am thick skinned.

jmo, rick


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## imported_aspen (Feb 20, 2003)

just one point i'd like to add to that post though. when i first started planted tanks, and was having great difficulty growing plants, and then growing them algae free, i DID use my test kits extensively. that made quite a difference i can tell you. so it is not all intuition, but more experience. and i still have problems like we all do, i would think.

f/i, buying my iron test kit was the only way i figured out that my first fert, 'hagen plant gro' didn't contain any iron, even though it clearly stated that it contains everything to make plants thrive. test kits are not useless, they provide a way to verify our thoughts about what is really going on. they have since changed their formula, but it isn't (imo) worth using.

rick


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2003)

I don't think they send off much of that well water, that's not even potable but they might blend it some to get the levels down.

Anyhow, I think you might just consider doing a water change anyway and dosing like I mentioned and assume it's not that high.

10ppm is NOT high nitrates for fish. It is very low relative to what many folks have their fish.

You will not harm fish by adding it 2-3x a week etc.

Now you can guess and guess and guess. But I think if you try the water change routine, and the CO2 is good, you add the KNO3, K2SO4, Traces and some source of PO4, things will go very well.

I don't trust your test kit.
Call the water company up and talk to live person etc. Tell them you have a newborn and are concerned about the high NO3 from the well water and want to know what the level is.

If they don't take care you then, raise some hell.

Or get a nice NO3 test kit.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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