# LED lighting thoughts



## jestep (Nov 14, 2009)

Has anyone experimented with LED lighting much. I have some good electrical engineering experience and started looking into a LED systems over the weekend. There are numerous benefits to LED systems, the main one being reliability as a quality LED system could last 10 or even 20 years if properly cooled and designed.

The downside seems to be the huge cost. It seems like the equivalent LED cost for a single 48" HO-T5 bulb is about $600. Converting from a 4x54, 48" T5 setup, would cost roughly $2400 - $3000. If you could buy LED's in bulk, say 1000 per order, you could cut this cost in half. The electrical savings over T5's are negligible because the luminous efficiency is just barely more than T5's and is less than metal halides.

So, at a 10 year life, you would be looking at a spread-out cost of $150 - $300 per year. If you assume replacing t5 bulbs every year, ~$100 per year (4 high-end bulbs), plus a new ballast every 3 - 5.

Am I missing something here. I keep hearing that LED's are the future for aquarium lighting, but seriously this isn't in the ballpark yet. Additionally, if you need truly high intensity lighting, say 1000W or more metal halide equivalent, the cost and complexity goes up considerably. 

The price needs to be reduced by about 80% before these can be considered a suitable replacement. I see questions about LED lighting fairly frequently, and by this estimate, there's just no way that the cost is justifiable.


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## Bryeman (Aug 24, 2009)

jestep said:


> Has anyone experimented with LED lighting much. I have some good electrical engineering experience and started looking into a LED systems over the weekend. There are numerous benefits to LED systems, the main one being reliability as a quality LED system could last 10 or even 20 years if properly cooled and designed.
> 
> The downside seems to be the huge cost. It seems like the equivalent LED cost for a single 48" HO-T5 bulb is about $600. Converting from a 4x54, 48" T5 setup, would cost roughly $2400 - $3000. If you could buy LED's in bulk, say 1000 per order, you could cut this cost in half. The electrical savings over T5's are negligible because the luminous efficiency is just barely more than T5's and is less than metal halides.
> 
> ...


I personally think you're dead on. LED technology will get better (more efficient) and the number of outfits offering the lights will increase, which will mean a big decrease in price at some point. Only problem is I think we are still talking several years for this to happen.


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## Philosophos (Mar 1, 2009)

This thread should be of help to you:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/84212-designing-building-led-fixture.html

If anyone knows there lighting, it's Vaughn/Hoppy. He's posted tons of different articles on lighting.

LED's definitely need time to become reasonably priced for the non-DIY sort. Even the above was about $200-$300 if I remember right, and that was for a 20 gal.

-Philosophos


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## PlecoFanatic (Sep 29, 2009)

what about this 
here


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

What about these LED arraysthat are coming with full tank set-ups (like the tetra 10 gallon half-moon) ? It comes with a 24-LED array, but it doesn't say anything about how much light is actually coming out of those lights.

Anyone know about those?

-Dave


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## jestep (Nov 14, 2009)

PlecoFanatic said:


> what about this
> here


This looks really promising for the cost. $1 per LED would make it cost-effective on any level. The one thing they don't mention is the actual light output. 90W is relatively meaningless if you don't know the lumens per watt or other intensity measurement of the LED's. Even said, assuming that they are remotely on-par with high-end LED's (~90 - 100 Lumens / Watt), these would output roughly 10,000 Lumens, which is something like 2 48in T5-HO tubes.

I have no idea where they're getting the replace a 400W to 600W HPS setup. It would take 500W+ of LED's to equal 400W of HPS. HPS lamps can have a Lumen/watt rating of up to 140 which is more than the best LED on the market. Metal Halides top out at about 120. The best LED's are approaching 120 from my research.


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## jestep (Nov 14, 2009)

davemonkey said:


> What about these LED arraysthat are coming with full tank set-ups (like the tetra 10 gallon half-moon) ? It comes with a 24-LED array, but it doesn't say anything about how much light is actually coming out of those lights.
> 
> Anyone know about those?
> 
> -Dave


This seems to be the same with all the pre-build LED's I've looked at. None of them mention the actual light output. Assuming they are good LED's you would be looking at about 2500 lumens output, which would be equivalent to about 1-24", or 2-12" T5's.


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## MoonFish (Feb 12, 2006)

There are many different types of LEDs out there. Lumping them all together is just garbage talk. If you can't DIY the stuff, then yeah it's gonna be out of reach for a while. 

Prices for the newest LED offerings are insane in any range of products. By the time the factories gear up to mass produce and the patents wear out, product is dirt cheap but wildly outdated.


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## Qwertus (Oct 14, 2008)

The cheap LEDs ($1 a piece) will not work for tanks that are too deep 20gal+. If you really want the DIY stuff buy the LEDs buy the ones that are around $5-$15 a piece. You will probably need several heatsinks or they will burn out quick. It's more expensive and time consuming to build a LED light panel but it will save lots of energy later on.

I built one before for my 5 gal, it grows plants just as well but the price wasn't worth building it, at least for now.

It's like buying a hybrid car now, it costs an arm and a leg more than a gasoline-only car but doesn't save that much gas, you can buy it to reducing pollution but not for saving money at this point in time. Savings aren't that much of a difference in the short term.


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