# tell me about this setup



## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

i am new to the forum, and this tank setup is inspiring me to want to do live plants, i am wondering what the carpet type plant is throught the floor. I am unsure if i want to use Co2 or not, i dont know anything about it or how much it costs, but i presume a non Co2 tank would be much simpler. The tank i am thinking to setup is a 55gallon long plexiglass, and im probly going to go with a double llight housing hood. ive looked throught the forrum all night, but i am still very confused on where to start, and what to do. Basically i just need an explanation of Co2 injection and the costs of it, or what it takes to do a setup like the one in the link, thanks in advance.

http://www.aquahobby.com/tanks/e_tank0409.php


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## Sir_BlackhOle (Jan 25, 2004)

Well, that carpet is Riccia. 
http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/AquaticPlants.htm#High Pressure CO2
This is a great webpage for learning about CO2.

For someone just starting out, I recommend about 2 watts per gallon for lighting. Make sure you start with a decent substrate. I like a laterite/gravel mixture just because its cheap. A lot of people use Flourite or Onyx Sand and other store bought substrates with success. Non CO2 tanks are usually slower growing, which can make it easier to maintain. What are your water parameters?


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

If you want to do a Riccia fluitans carpet, you will *need* to add CO2 to your aquarium. You can do this by the DIY method or the pressurized CO2 method. For an aquarium as large as a 55 gallon, I would recommend the pressurized CO2.

*What you will need for pressurized CO2:*
1. CO2 gas cylinder (5 or 10lbs) from a welding supply store
2. Double gauge regulator and needle valve
3. Regular airline tubing
4. CO2 reactor to churn all those CO2 gas bubbles and dissolve them into the tank
5. A pH kit and KH test kit, so you can measure your CO2 levels by using the pH-CO2 relation chart. You'll want around 25-30ppm.

That's it. It's pretty hassle free after setup. You can adjust the outflow of gas by turning the needle valve to fine tune your CO2 levels.

As for the Riccia carpet, I recommend buying nylon hairnets and flat, round river stones. Since Riccia is a floating plant, , you will need to weigh it down by spreading it across the top of a stone (small amounts) and then wrapping the hairnet around it. Place in the aquarium and trim as often as necessary to keep the fast growth tidy (and prevent it from floating up again).

The other plants in that tank have to be pretty difficult for a plant neophyte --Pogostemon stellatus and Rotala macrandra. You may want to try "easier" plants like Rotala rotundifolia, Ludwigia repens, and Bacopa caroliniana before moving on to these.

Carlos


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

Bavarian, welcome 

Try this planted tank link... http://www.aquariaplants.com/index.htm

For C02 look here... http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/


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## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

Thanks for the replies guys, it looks like i will be starting out with a non Co2 tank for now. then add it later. 
I went to my local shops today, and i am either going with a 55 gallon plexiglass tank which is $460 toal for the tank/lid canopy and stand (black/cabinet). or a 50 gallon glass tank which is $300 for the tank/lid canopy and stand (black/cabinet). Both are about the same size being 4ft long. One place i went to seemed to be biased towards plexi because of the lightness and durability against leaking, while the other store seemed to be biased towards glass because the plexi scratches very easily. 
I think im going to go with plexi though, because for some reason it just looks alot better to me. What are your guys' thoughts on this? as well as the pricing for the setups, too much or about right?
For the plants, the guy said the kind is carpet plant i wanted is called java moss, and i wouldnt need Co2 to grow it. He recommended me getting a double housing light fixture, and getting two lights, one blue and one white, tottaling to about 110 watts or so. the price for the fixture was $140. Is this an ok price or is this expensive?
He also said i could simply use the 3 bottles of substrate for the plants and not need anything else. they are...Potassium Supplement, Comprehensive Suppliment, and Organic Carbon Source. 

It would be greatly appreciate if you guys could point out anything wrong with whats going on here or give any advice on each of the topics and point me in the right direction before i jump into anything 8)


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## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

Sir_BlackhOle said:


> Well, that carpet is Riccia.
> http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/AquaticPlants.htm#High Pressure CO2
> This is a great webpage for learning about CO2.
> 
> For someone just starting out, I recommend about 2 watts per gallon for lighting. Make sure you start with a decent substrate. I like a laterite/gravel mixture just because its cheap. A lot of people use Flourite or Onyx Sand and other store bought substrates with success. Non CO2 tanks are usually slower growing, which can make it easier to maintain. What are your water parameters?


Would the riccia just die if i wasnt to use Co2 injection?

and the tanks dimensions are 4ft long, 15" deep (i think), and not sure about the height, probably about 20" or so.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

I can't say to much about the pricing since it has been a while since I bought a brand new tank/stand. 

On the lighting... Skip the blue light and go with a fresh water fixture with plant bulbs (5500k-10000K). Actinic blue lights are better for reef tanks and have less effect on plants. You can find better deals on-line for lighting, you can get more wattage for less.

Java moss is not normally used for a carpet plant, but attached to wood or rock. It would be very difficult to attach Java moss to the substrate. IMO, I would make another choice for a ground cover plant.


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

Frankly, the person you talked to does not really understand planted aquariums well, other than for just getting customers to buy products and setups. He sounds like the "plant" guy in the Chicago LFS I visit.

I would go with the 50g glass tank, as it has MUCH better dimensions than a 55g. You will appreciate the extra width later on as you advance through the hobby.

Judging by the tank you showed us, I really don't think you are going to reach your goals with a non-CO2 injected aquarium. For example, your Riccia won't die but it certainly won't look pretty without CO2 gas. Another plant for the foreground would be a better choice --this site has an excellent plant database called Plant Finder to use while making these types of decisions. All the descriptions make mention of CO2 needs, lighting needs, ease of growth, etc.

I guess the person means Kent Freshwater Plant Supplement, Kent Botanica K+, and a Flourish Excel-type product (basically, you're duping the CO2 and adding this to make up for it). Plants will need nitrate and phosphate, however, in small amounts. If you have enough fish and the tank is non-CO2 (or even low light with CO2), then you won't have to dose anything but some Flourish about twice a week.

I would get lighting from www.hellolights.com or www.ahsupply.com, they are significantly cheaper.

Carlos


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## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

trenac said:


> I can't say to much about the pricing since it has been a while since I bought a brand new tank/stand.
> 
> On the lighting... Skip the blue light and go with a fresh water fixture with plant bulbs (5500k-10000K). Actinic blue lights are better for reef tanks and have less effect on plants. You can find better deals on-line for lighting, you can get more wattage for less.
> 
> Java moss is not normally used for a carpet plant, but attached to wood or rock. It would be very difficult to attach Java moss to the substrate. IMO, I would make another choice for a ground cover plant.


what kind of carpet plants are there that would be ideal? and easiest to take car of. and are there any bulbs that are powerful enough to be able to use just 1 bulb for the whole tank?


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## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

tsunami said:


> Frankly, the person you talked to does not really understand planted aquariums well, other than for just getting customers to buy products and setups. He sounds like the "plant" guy in the Chicago LFS I visit.
> 
> I would go with the 50g glass tank, as it has MUCH better dimensions than a 55g. You will appreciate the extra width later on as you advance through the hobby.
> 
> ...


 Just to clarify, the glass and plexi glass tanks are both 4ft long, so no difference there, the plexi is just a bit deeper.
The tank i showed was just sort of something that inspired me, and just really liked the carpet planting.
I plan to do a BIG school of tetras, and a few small bala sharks. Ill defiently check out the plant finder, and thanks for the links for the lighting, ill definetly be buying online. 
now a couple more questions....how do u guys clean the tank when having a tank like the one i linked? how will u use a suction on the gravel, and my other quesetion is will a hagen fluval 304 filter be sufficient ? appreciate all the help guys....


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## Sir_BlackhOle (Jan 25, 2004)

small bala sharks? they all start off small but they will get big pretty quick. 

for cleaning my tank, i will vacuum if i see a large deposit of mulm, but i havent had to in about six months.


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## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

Sir_BlackhOle said:


> small bala sharks? they all start off small but they will get big pretty quick.
> 
> for cleaning my tank, i will vacuum if i see a large deposit of mulm, but i havent had to in about six months.


 yeah ive owned bala sharks before and they grow fast but i guess ill wont feed too much and ill just swap em out when they get too big. discus was also a fish i thought looked amazing, but i hear they are very hard to keep? is it possible to put them with tetras?


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## Sir_BlackhOle (Jan 25, 2004)

i keep tetras with my discus in my 75. the most difficult thing for me with discus is feeding. they hardly touch anything but live blackworms, but if i feed them live blackworms too much they stop eating them....they are picky i guess.


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## trenac (Jul 16, 2004)

The light fixture I have on my 55G tank is a Coralife 2x65 CP fixture. I don't think you will be able to get a single bulb strong enough for a tank of this size.

The plant I am growing in the forground of the 55G tank is Dwarf Sag., very easy and undemanding.


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## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

Sir_BlackhOle said:


> i keep tetras with my discus in my 75. the most difficult thing for me with discus is feeding. they hardly touch anything but live blackworms, but if i feed them live blackworms too much they stop eating them....they are picky i guess.


aweome, i will look into them, anything else about them that is difficult?


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## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

trenac said:


> The light fixture I have on my 55G tank is a Coralife 2x65 CP fixture. I don't think you will be able to get a single bulb strong enough for a tank of this size.
> 
> The plant I am growing in the forground of the 55G tank is Dwarf Sag., very easy and undemanding.


any pictures of the foreground?

BTW guys, i ordered my tank today, i went with the 55G plexi. The ones they had at the shop had some scratches i saw after having them give me a light bulb to inspect the glass, and they would only give 5% off so i just had em order one and ill get it in two weeks, so bascially that gives me time to get everything else. The light housing can 2 lights easily, so can u guys link me to the exact lights i would need i am unsure of the dimensions but i know the tank is 4 ft long. ive also been looking at the plant finder, and saw alot of plants that i lied that were said to pretty hardy, maybe down the road i will setup some Co2 but for now ill do without it.


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## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

ok ok, i searched and read all about doing DIY co2 setups and decided thats definetly not a mess i would want to deal with, i searched more and noticed that a pressurized co2 systemw ould only cost about 100-150 dollars...is this true? if so i would have no problem simply buying a kit and doing that, i would much rather do it the right way rather than trying to get by and going through all the hassle of making a cheap kit. would it be possible for me to get the plants that i want, although they wont be so healthy for the time being as i set the tank up, then just add the co2 later, like within a month or so?


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## Sir_BlackhOle (Jan 25, 2004)

That sounds about right for aCO2 to me if you do some shopping around. And I dont think it would hurt too much if you waited and got the co2 a bit later. Im still saving for mine!


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## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

Sir_BlackhOle said:


> That sounds about right for aCO2 to me if you do some shopping around. And I dont think it would hurt too much if you waited and got the co2 a bit later. Im still saving for mine!


alright kool, is there anything wrong with getting a used setup? and guys, im still confused on lighting, do i want as much watts as possible? how many watts would be considered a low light setup and a high light setup in a 55 gallon tank. i still want to get a blue light for looks, i saw some 90-something watt bulbs on the website linked to on the first page and ill probly get one of those in white, then get a less powered blue bulb...hows that sound?


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## Sir_BlackhOle (Jan 25, 2004)

IMO low lighting is 1.5-2 watts per gallon, high is 2.5 and up. If I could find a used co2 setup that worked I wouldnt have a problem buying it


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## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

Sir_BlackhOle said:


> IMO low lighting is 1.5-2 watts per gallon, high is 2.5 and up. If I could find a used co2 setup that worked I wouldnt have a problem buying it


do u have a screen name over AIM or yahoo that we could chat over? it would be much easier to get some of my questions answered.


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

You'll want 2x55 or 2x65. If you want blue color in your lighting, obtain 10,000k bulbs which give off a very bluish, crisp white light.

I cannot recommend actinic blue lighting.

Carlos


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## mm12463 (Mar 5, 2004)

For lights, if they are the standard 4 foot florescent bulbs goto Walmart or Home Depot. Look for some full spectrum lights like a Westinghouse 6500K or any of the other bulbs that have a K reading on the package from 5000K to 10000K. Look for something that says full spectrum. They are the same things as the ones sold in a pet shop for plants but they cost about $20 less each.


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## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

alright guys im a bit confused still on what to get for lights. i was talking to someone and it seems that the light fixture that will come with my tank will not hold these power compact lights, and ill need to get a new fixture to hold them. is this true?

if so i was wondering if i could use something like this... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=46314&item=4332755634&rd=1
instead of having to buy a whole new holder and then bulbs. Now i dont know what to do really because the fixtures are extremely expensive, almost seems easier to setup a saltwater tank and not much more expensive.


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## Aqua5-0 (Oct 18, 2004)

On my 55 gal tank I had before this is what I used:

2 Shop lights from Lowes or Home Depot. Wal-Mart might even have them. Cost 9.00 each.

Then I used 2 GE Plant and Aquarium 4' Fluorescent Bulbs from Wal-Mart. Cost 6.00 or 8.00 Each.

Also used 2 GE sunshine 4' Fluorescent bulbs also from wal-mart, 6.00 or 8.00 each.

Total cost: 50.00 or so... about for about 160W... I know youre not going to be getting the full 160W but it was cheap and it worked very well. The shop lights fit perfectly over the 55 gal tank.

For my new 55 gal. tank Im trying Coral life Freshwater CF light 260W total for $220.00. I havent tried it yet so i can't tell you how good it is.

Josh


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## mm12463 (Mar 5, 2004)

You might be able to fit that into the light housing that comes with the tank but chances are the heat from it will cause you way more problems since that little housing was not designed for that light.

I would go with what Aqua5-0 said pickup some strip lights from the local hardware store. Pickup some bulbs like Aqua5-0 said. There are a lot out there will work with plants. Those 4 foot bulbs are your generic looking florescent bulbs. Just make sure you get something that sayd 5000K up to 10000K like GE Chroma50s or various other brands. Look on the bulbs, on the wrapper and you can get two bulbs and the strip light for maybe $40 I bet.


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## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

wait, the strip light u guys are talking about is a holder? so Aqua-50 used a total of 4 bulbs? this is all making me more confused.
I will be using a canopy, and i was thinking to go with the AHsupply 55x2 bright kit. If i buy this kit, would i be able to use 2 4' 55 watt flourescent bulbs from home depot?


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## mm12463 (Mar 5, 2004)

Okay the AH Supply kit uses compact florescent (CF) bulbs. Those are the bulbs that look like a U. 

The strip light from hardware store is looks this. It uses the normal florescent bulbs you see in your office or maybe in your home. Long single tubes with ends that connect in to both ends of the lighting. The pic attached is an example of on you can get from your hardware store. It holds the bulbs but you will most likely want to make a some sort of encasing or housing for it.

Now the CF bulbs would not fit in your strip light from the hardware store. AH Supply will give you everything you need to make a CF light. But you still need some sort of hood or light housing.Not sure you can retro fit it into the light that comes with the tank. Maybe email them and ask.

The bulbs from Home Depot would work in the strip from Home Depot, but not the AH supply setup. They are diffrent types of bulbs.

Does that help? I know it's confusing.

Edited.


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## Ngaio (Oct 7, 2004)

For more information on discus in a planted tank try here:
http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Articles/PAM_Discus.htm


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## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

Haha wow i just came across this thread and its funny the things u ask when ur such a noob  For those of u that care ive finally got my tank going how i want it and ive learned alot about what it takes to properly setup a planted aquarium thanks to u guys, still so much to learn though. Although i would love to do a full blown planted tank right now it was best for me to start out with a low tech setup and learn the ropes, i also shouldnt be spending all the money it would take to have a tank of that caliber right now.
For fish i ended up deciding on african cichlids (peacock/hap/mbuna), as i dont want some boring tetras (just my opinion) running around, i prefer fish with a little more personality. 
For lighting i ended up buying bhrada's 48" dual strip light fixture with 2 GE aquarays. I am using these as my bulbs now but will be swapping them out for coralife trichromatics as the aquarays are too red for the setup im doing.
Now for plants.... i knew that there arent too many choices with not only keeping plants in low light and no co2, but more importantly cichlids that eat plants and dig sand, and the very hard water needed for them. I chose to keep java fern, jungle val, and anubias nana (still need to buy). Other possibilities is crypts, and i definetly want a nice ground plant to keep just havent found one that will work. Id appreciate if u guys gave me some suggestions on what some other nice plants are that i could keep that u would think looks good in my tank, and i need some suggestions for a good ground plant.
Heres the tank now, i was and still am getting lots of nasty diatoms (new tank) but gladly they are starting to go away, and the green algea is starting to get out of control as i dont have enough plants yet, which i dont mind at all on the rocks i think it looks greant but really pisses me off cuz its getting all over the substrate and im not able to get it all off. anyways sorry for the long post guys but here ya go! tell me what u think so far.


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## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

ok here it is...only fish right now is 1 Aulonocara stuartgranti Rubescens (common name - ruby red peacock), and 3 synodontis petricola (catfish). Theres also some shrimp and ottos in there but they wont last long when i get the red of the fish in there. the peacock ate most of the shrimp and trys to eat the ottos :lol: basic idea is to fill the left and right side with jungle val, and put the nana and java fern in the rocks, then have some nice foreground plant on the sides and leave the middle sand for digging/sand sifting. obviously plant wise it has lots of work to do but i think its coming along nicely now [smilie=k:

[IMG]http://www.wtfhost.com/userfiles/Bavarian3/Fish%20tank/TankPic2205.jpg[/IMG]


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