# Shrimp food question (first thread)



## mocha2184 (Mar 13, 2007)

Hey guys:wave: This is my first thread on these Forums, i've been lurking for a while!

Anyway i've got some RCS in a 10 gallon tank with a pair of small yoyos. (keeping my fingers crossed that they don't get eaten up). I've got some HBH Super Soft Spirulina pellets that i've been giving to my shrimp for a few days. Down at the bottom of the ingredients list it says "Copper Protienate". Does anybody know what this is and is it shrimp safe?


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Generally, copper isn't safe for inverts. HOWEVER, I do feed my shrimp HBH Crab Bites, which does contain copper...it's been a while and I haven't seen any adverse effects.


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## JohnPaul (Aug 28, 2006)

Loaches with shrimp are a bad idea. The baby shrimplets will be toast and the loaches may get some of the adults when they molt; even with hiding places loaches are the most amazing aquarium fish when it comes to exploring every tiny little nook & cranny for food. 

As for the food, how much and how often are you feeding? Anything with copper is a potential hazard; the more you feed, the more worried I would be. This is another advantage of a shrimp-only tank; if you remove the loaches, then essentially you don't need to feed the tank at all (if it's well-aged) unless you have, oh, probably 100 shrimp+ shrimp or so.


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## mocha2184 (Mar 13, 2007)

i've only got 15 or so shrimp in there now. The tank is aged, it's been up for about a year and is full of java fern and java moss. I also have an otocinclus in there. I guess the yoyo's are gonna go into my other tank. I want to grow a huge shrimp colony so I can't have them picking off the babies!


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## boling00 (Sep 14, 2007)

I had the same question about "copper protienate" so I emailed HBH to get their opinion if it is safe for shrimp. Here's their reply:

_I don not have "scientific evidence" that the copper protienate in our Veggie Wafer or Algae Grazer product is safe for shrimp. What I can tell you is that it is a chelated source of copper (bound to a protein) versus a salt or elemental based copper such as copper sulfate. Research in the aquaculture industry indicates that the food conversion rate at 0.05% is high but the mortally rate is also high were that higher levels (I think around 0.12%) reduce the FCR but also reduce the mortality rate. If I remember correctly though this study was done on saltwater species. It is also sated on every dwarf shrimp page (what I am sure you are concerned about) that you can feed blanched zucchini and spinach to your dwarf shrimp. The estimated level of copper that occurs in boiled/blanched zucchini is 3-5% per 223g and spinach is 14-16% per 180g. The copper inclusion of our product is less than 0.01%. As the product is initially designed for fish so we will not be taking the copper out. We have incredible results with both shrimp (ghost, cherry, and tiger) and snails (apple and rams horn) being feed this diet only.
Snails are as sensitive to or even more so to copper than freshwater shrimp. The level of inclusion is far below that cited in any literature as being unsafe.

As a side note even freshwater shrimp (dwarves too) require trace amounts of copper for survival. It's an essential mineral.

In the end it is up to you to decide if you want to use the product for your shrimp.

If you ever have any questions please fell free to contact me.

Thanks for your interest in HBH products.

Best regards,
Mike Hook

QA Regulatory Manager

HBH Pet Products

(801) 489-3815 X-123

[email protected] ​_
--Jim


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## CincyCichlids (Oct 14, 2005)

Not that this follows the thread, but my favorite food to feed them is French-cut no-salt-added canned green beans. Most species of shrimp love it!!!


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## go9ma123 (Dec 22, 2007)

I would remove all the fish to different tank, even otocinclus.
When your shrimp start breeding and if you look at the baby shrimp, they are very tiny. 
I do know, otocinclus are harmless to mid to adult size shrimp, but may be not for baby shrimps.
If you are worried about Copper Protienate, why don't you buy hikari wafers, hikari cusin or tetra flake.
They aren't that expensive and shrimps to like them. =)


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## emorsso (Aug 17, 2006)

Hi there,

Copper in shrimp food is generally not safe for shrimps and even planted tank.
I feed all my shrimps with Hayashi products, they are natural and safe.

Even my wild caught Sulawesi shrimps feed on it without any problem.


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## CaptainNemo (Jul 11, 2008)

Spinach is 14-16% copper? Am I just reading that wrong, because that doesn't make any sense.


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## JohnPaul (Aug 28, 2006)

CaptainNemo said:


> Spinach is 14-16% copper? Am I just reading that wrong, because that doesn't make any sense.


Either there's a typo there or else this guy from HBH is absolutely looney.

*EDIT:*

Just looked up some info online. Based on this chemical analysis of cooked spinach....

180g spinach sample had 0.3 mg copper. Remember, 1 mg = 0.001 gram. So out of 180g of spinach, 0.0003g of that is copper. That's 0.000167% (or, 167 ppm). In other words, the HBH wafers contain approximately *ONE THOUSAND TIMES* more copper than spinach does.

Another analysis of spinach (raw this time) gave a result of 0.093 mg copper in a 100g serving of spinach, yielding a result of 0.000093% copper (93 ppm). That's even lower than the other study.

The end result: the level of copper naturally occurring in spinach is miniscule compared to the copper content of copper-containing fish foods.

*P.S. --* I think "Mike" from HBH got confused between _*copper content*_ and _*nutritional value*_. A 180g serving of spinach contains around 14-16% of the RDA (recommended daily allowance) of copper. Perhaps he saw that 14-16% number and thought it meant the spinach was 14-16% copper. (I dunno...seems like a pretty dumb error but I'm trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, rather than be cynical and think he was intentionally trying to be misleading.)


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## CaptainNemo (Jul 11, 2008)

That's what I thought. If we could get copper just by growing spinach, I doubt there'd be such a problem around here with people stealing wiring and plumbing from foreclosed homes!


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