# Measure of CO2 in water, device for



## Manwithnofish (Mar 12, 2008)

Can't seem to remember or find any device to monitor/measure CO2 concentration. I know what it looks like but not what it's called....can't locate on web. Device is glass bubble with curved stem of some sort. It traps CO2 which I presume I can then measure periodically. Any help would be, well rather helpful!


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

Drop checker.

Here's ya' go:

http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/co2-drop-checkers.html

(be careful of the ones that are cheaper and tell you to use tank water in the checker, they are not accurate).

And here's a fantastic thread about them and their use (accurately!):

http://www.barrreport.com/articles/2661-drop-checkers-co2-indicators-why-how.html


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## killudead (Sep 29, 2008)

rich815 said:


> Drop checker.
> 
> Here's ya' go:
> 
> ...


article is a great read, but i wonder which drop checker is better. the double chamber or single chamber


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

killudead said:


> article is a great read, but i wonder which drop checker is better. the double chamber or single chamber


They are both better.


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## killudead (Sep 29, 2008)

rich815 said:


> They are both better.


better than nothing, of course, but out of the 2. which one is preferable over the other.


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

killudead said:


> better than nothing, of course, but out of the 2. which one is preferable over the other.


I have both in my main tank. They both work fine when used properly.


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## Manwithnofish (Mar 12, 2008)

Not real happy with Green Leaf Aquarium folks. Purchase was received with one glass dropper and one bottle of the kH Standard, but no instructions, no chart, and no pH reagent. Apparently, after I received my order, their website changed to include all the items that I did not receive for $5.00 more. I can accept that they changed their site to now include the pH reagent solution (Brom.Blue stuff), but it's pretty cheap not to include the written instructions or the chart. Just poor customer service. I want to do business with people that appreciate my business and do the extra things to show me that. The little things that show that they want my future business. These folks failed in that reguard. I'm sure there are many who have had positive experiences, but I draw a negative on this one.


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## Manwithnofish (Mar 12, 2008)

Since, I received no written instructions on how this device works, I need some help. First, how long is the solution good for before it has to be replaced. Do you fill it up and leave it for a week, a month, or 15 minutes?

I assume I fill the little glass ball approximately half full with the kH Standard solution and then add drops of the B-Blue reagent?

Also, since my kit did not include the pH Brom.Blue stuff, can I just substitute 3 drops of my pH test solution that came with my master test kit? If so, how many drops do I use?


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

Sorry you were not satisfied with your order. 
We do appreciate everybody's business, and I think 99.9% of most folks can agree to this. Sorry we did not include free items with your order.
If you would like us to send you pH reagent free of shipping charges and free product we will be happy to do so. If that's what would make you happy.

In regards to your question above.
2-3 drops of Ph reagent is all it takes to get the 4dkh to turn blue.
Place in your tank opposite side from diffuser and your set.

Best Regards, Orlando


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## Manwithnofish (Mar 12, 2008)

> Sorry you were not satisfied with your order.
> We do appreciate everybody's business, and I think 99.9% of most folks can agree to this. Sorry we did not include free items with your order.
> If you would like us to send you pH reagent free of shipping charges and free product we will be happy to do so. If that's what would make you happy.


Your offer is appreciated, but no you don't need to ship them now. I really wasn't terribly upset about it. I always believe that if I am a tough customer, you'll be a better business. Accept it as constructive criticism. Still did not get an answer to two of the questions though.

How long can I leave it in the tank before I should "refresh" the solution?
Can I use my pH test kit or do I need to purchase the Brom.Blue reagent? Are they of the same concentration to give similar results?


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

Your ph test kit is bromo Blue, so it will work. About 2 drops will suffice.

Most folks will tell you you can go 2-4 weeks between changes. If you have high light you may find yourself changing more often.
There is no real time set in stone when to change the reagent. I have a tank that's been up with the same fluid for 6 weeks and still working fine.
Other tanks need more frequent changes.

Regards, Orlando


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## SpeedEuphoria (Jul 9, 2008)

Orlando, I'm a newb at this stuff so just for conformation.

http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/co2-drop-checkers/kh-standard.html

that's the water that goes into the DC correct? Then just add 2-3 drops of bromo blue.

So I guess my thing is, its only 37ml, how much does the DC hold? As it seems that this will only last a short time. Do you sell larger quantities of 4dKH water?


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

Yes, that's the water for the DC. The bottle is enough to last about 2 months. You just add 2-3 drops of pH reagent to make a strong blue color.

The larger bottles are only in 2oz bottles from Cal Aqua labs. We currently do not have larger bottles at the moment.
Hopefully in a few weeks we will have 250-500ml bottles.

Regards, Orlando


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Manwithnofish said:


> Not real happy with Green Leaf Aquarium folks. Purchase was received with one glass dropper and one bottle of the kH Standard, but no instructions, no chart, and no pH reagent. Apparently, after I received my order, their website changed to include all the items that I did not receive for $5.00 more. I can accept that they changed their site to now include the pH reagent solution (Brom.Blue stuff), but it's pretty cheap not to include the written instructions or the chart. Just poor customer service. I want to do business with people that appreciate my business and do the extra things to show me that. The little things that show that they want my future business. These folks failed in that reguard. I'm sure there are many who have had positive experiences, but I draw a negative on this one.


I have found that Orlando goes "above and beyond" with customer service. Did you contact him directly before you posted here? I can see you might be put out if he refused to correct the problem. No one is 100% perfect - mistakes are sometimes made.

From others, I have gotten 2 different drop checkers with "unreliable" instructions. Most say to use the water from your aquarium which is incorrect. I never had any drop checker come with the 4dkg water and I have purchased 4 of them. Seems to me that Green leaf offers full service. I do see the instructions on the web site. Maybe they weren't there when you got yours. (I do think they should be included with the drop checker.)


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## stuckintexas (Aug 12, 2008)

just got my DC from green leaf yesterday and glad i finally got one of these. turns out not enough co2 was in my water. i upped my bubble rate slowly and kept checking back every half hour or so until green. i think i atleast doubled my original bubble rate to get it green.

i have a question. once the DC turns green, does it ever go back to blue? i ask because my co2 is off at night, only on when lights are on. i got up this morning to check and see if it turned back to blue and it was still green. if it doesnt go back to blue then how can you ever tell if you dont have enough co2 in the water? along those lines, what if you put too much co2 in the water and it turns yellow and then you back off the co2 but the indicator never goes back down. could this be because the co2 that made it into the checker is stuck in there?

im trying to figure out exactly how this thing works. the directions show how to setup the DC but they didnt get across to me how the thing works.


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## Manwithnofish (Mar 12, 2008)

Excellent questions!!! I'm betting that it won't change back once the "chemical" reaction has taken place, and that you (we) would have to periodically put new solution / reagent in the checker. If you changed the solution once a week, you'd go through that little bottle pretty soon. It would be nice to be wrong about this one.


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

Manwithnofish said:


> I'm betting that it won't change back once the "chemical" reaction has taken place, and that you (we) would have to periodically put new solution / reagent in the checker.


No, and yes. I have two drop checkers. One is a plastic one from Red Sea (unfortunately one whose instructions tell you wrongly to use tank water) and another the double bulb Cal Aqua one which comes with two fluids (one the "right" colored one that the other you watch to get it to match).

The Red Sea one I use with 4dKH water I made myself and it works great. My CO2 goes on 2 hours before my lights do. When the lights first go on the DC is a medium green slightly edging towards blue. Within an hour and until the lights go off 8 hours later it's a nice lime-green, maybe leaning to slightly yellow. My CO2 goes off one hour before my lights do. I replace the 4dKH water and add 2 new drops of reagent in the Red Sea DC every week after my 50% water change (I pretty much follow a basic EI fert and dosing regime) as I have found a protein film occasionally forms over the hole and sometimes after a week or two it seems to not change color anymore.

The glass Cal Aqua one also works great. I have not changed either fliuds in this one since I got it almost 2 months ago. The color of the test bulb changes color throughout the day/night pretty much along with the way my Red Sea one does as described above: blue/green in the early morning before the lights go on, green leaning slightly towards blue once the lights do go on (again, CO2 went on 2 hours before this), and within an hour of lights on matches the "matching" color bulb until again the lights go off after 8 hours.

Why do I have both? Well, someone was selling a two-times-used Cal Aqua one for cheap with fluids and I grabbed it. I now use them both in my 72 gal, located in different parts of the aquarium, just to feel good about my CO2 being close to correct in different areas.


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## stuckintexas (Aug 12, 2008)

ok, so your color does change...can someone that has a single bulb DC chime in on how their color changes, if at all? 
from what i understand, co2 will leave the water pretty quick of you stop the flow. if that is the case then the DC should turn dark blue just like it was originally when first added to the bulb. if the DC doesnt change back to blue then it doesnt really work like i expected and im going to be disappointed.

can anyone explain how it works?

i assume the co2 enters the DC and reacts with the fluid to change its color. what happens to the co2 gas at that time? does it break down into something else? what is the by product? how is it possible for the co2 or the by product to escape the DC? i dont see how it can. if it doesnt escape then how can the liquid change back to blue?

also, the directions dont say where to place the DC in your tank but i did read that you should place it on the opposite side of the tank from the diffuser. that is fine, but how far below the surface of the water should the DC be placed?

thanks.


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

stuckintexas said:


> ok, so your color does change...can someone that has a single bulb DC chime in on how their color changes, if at all?


Guess I should have been more clear. The Red Sea one is a single bulb. I have both a single bulb one and a double bulb one. They work on the same concept.


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

Manwithnofish said:


> Excellent questions!!! I'm betting that it won't change back once the "chemical" reaction has taken place, and that you (we) would have to periodically put new solution / reagent in the checker. If you changed the solution once a week, you'd go through that little bottle pretty soon. It would be nice to be wrong about this one.


 Yes the reagent will change colors daily from cylce on/off. In the morning it can be light blue, in a few hours it turns green when co2 is on.

Regards, Orlando


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## ray-the-pilot (May 14, 2008)

The way the DC works is by gaseous diffusion. CO2 will diffuse from a place of high concentration (your tank) to a place of low concentration (the checker). This will continue until the concentrations are equal. If the concentration of CO2 in your tank decreases the process will reverse. This is a fairly slow process so it takes a relatively long time for the DC and tank to equilibrate. 
At night your tank will lose some CO2 but it doesn’t drop that fast so you don’t see much of a change in color. (The color change is not that accurate of a measure of the CO2 concentration). You can “check” your checker by taking it out of the tank. It will turn blue rather quickly. 
I use one of those “cheap” Red Sea checkers and it works fine. The only thing you have to do that is different from the directions is to use 4 deg. kH water instead of tank water in the bulb.


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

ray-the-pilot said:


> The way the DC works is by gaseous diffusion. CO2 will diffuse from a place of high concentration (your tank) to a place of low concentration (the checker). This will continue until the concentrations are equal. If the concentration of CO2 in your tank decreases the process will reverse. This is a fairly slow process so it takes a relatively long time for the DC and tank to equilibrate.
> At night your tank will lose some CO2 but it doesn't drop that fast so you don't see much of a change in color. (The color change is not that accurate of a measure of the CO2 concentration). You can "check" your checker by taking it out of the tank. It will turn blue rather quickly.
> I use one of those "cheap" Red Sea checkers and it works fine. The only thing you have to do that is different from the directions is to use 4 deg. kH water instead of tank water in the bulb.


Exactly, well put.

I should add that the Red Sea checker having in essence a white background for the checker liquid, is a lot easier to see the color than the pretty and more elegant looking glass Cal Aqua checker (double or single bulb). I sometimes use an old white plastic credit card I keep in my under-tank cabinet and put it behind the Cal Aqua glass bulbs to be able to read the colors definitively. The Cal Aqua bulbs being all glass and clear, and having plants, wood and fish in the background makes it harder to see the liquid color sometimes.

The Red Sea checker (this photo shows it empty, but you can see that with liquid it does have a white background to help see the liquid color):


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## stuckintexas (Aug 12, 2008)

thanks for the explanation.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

I just got the drop checker today. I need to get/make the liquid. I bookmarked the tom barr report post thingy

Anyway, reading what you folk say about the use of a credit card, gave me a little idea. 

I just got mine from Aquaticmagic and it comes with a PH colour strip. My thought was to glue the colour to a piece of white cardboard and get it laminated...

Anyway. this thread has been good.


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

Sunstar said:


> Anyway, reading what you folk say about the use of a credit card, gave me a little idea.
> 
> I just got mine from Aquaticmagic and it comes with a PH colour strip. My thought was to glue the colour to a piece of white cardboard and get it laminated...


Is this so you can match the color to the strip? It's really not needed. Lime-green is lime-green and is pretty easy to see. It's either blue, or a definitie blue-green, which means too little CO2, or a strong yellow, which is too much. My use of the white credit card was just because the completely clear bulb is too hard to see what color is in there. The white card gives the temp background to see the color.


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## Sunstar (Sep 17, 2008)

Ah good point...hmmmmmmmm


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

stuckintexas said:


> ok, so your color does change...can someone that has a single bulb DC chime in on how their color changes, if at all?
> from what i understand, co2 will leave the water pretty quick of you stop the flow. if that is the case then the DC should turn dark blue just like it was originally when first added to the bulb. if the DC doesnt change back to blue then it doesnt really work like i expected and im going to be disappointed.
> 
> can anyone explain how it works?
> ...


From what I understand CO2 moves more quickly from air to water than O2. So if you have less CO2 in the water than the air it will go back into the water and be dissipated, replaced by the O2 that is now more prevalent in the water since the CO2 has lessened. Hence the drop checker reverts back to the blue color. The little air bubble reverts as well. When the CO2 rises it traps in the air bubble and the water and changes the solutions color back to green to yellow.

Guess I was a little late in posting.... LOL They were much more succinct anyway!


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## SpeedEuphoria (Jul 9, 2008)

On the white background, I have read a few use a plastic cup, white on the inside. Cut the cup in 1/2 or 1/3 lengthwise and you can even attach it to a stick of some kind. Then lower that in the tank behind the DC to see the color better.


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## stuckintexas (Aug 12, 2008)

or just take something white that is safe to put in the water and put it behind the DC when reading the color...i just use my magnet scraper thing which is white.


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## mrakhnyansky (Nov 25, 2007)

Red Sea CO2 indicator works exactly the same as expensive drop checker from ADA, for accurate reading: instead of aquarium water KH=4dkh standard solution should be used.This solution available on the web.Also Azoo Co2 indicator does the same job.


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