# starting up today



## stuckintexas

ok, i am going to start my new tank today. aquasoil amazonia so i know that i will be dealing with ammonia for a bit. i am going to use DIY co2 and lower lighting. i have all the dry ferts at the house already. the only plants i will have on hand is hygrophilia. anyone have any tips or suggestions on what i should do when starting the tank?

i know that once i get going i am doing the EI fert method. i will be doing weekly 50% WC's and i will have my lights on a timer, probably start out at 8 hours on per day.

do i start fertilizing right away? do i start with the lights right away?


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## wwh2694

I would cycle the tank first and then plant. If you have the plants already then you have to plant your tank on heavy side first for less algae. Cycling the tank is still the best IMO. What I did on my planted discus tank low maintenance type. I cycled my tank injected it with bacteria and when my amonia and nitire is 0 put alot of plants then put my cleaner fish then my discus. 
About fertilizing i put it right when i plant i.e. flourite tabs. I ran my light 10hrs. Do you have a tank thats already running.?


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## stuckintexas

the new tank isnt really new, its just new to having plants. its been cycling for about a month and the ammonia is zero and nitrite about 0.25 ppm. i am using amazonia so i am going to get a heavy ammonia spike as it is. im not going with any fish, just plants for now...until the toxins are gone and then ill start adding my fish.


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## CrownMan

This may be not be the norm with Amazonia, but I have setup 2 new tanks with it over the past 7 weeks and have not had any ammonia spikes but have had a high Nitrite spike in both tanks. One tank is 7 weeks old and the other tank is 1 week old tomorrow. I planted both tanks heavily at the start, they both have CO2, high light and I dose EI. So far, no algae. The Nitrite spike lasted a little over 2 weeks in the 7 week old tank and I did 3 water changes a week for the first 2 weeks. The 1 week old tank is not going to get but 1 water change a week and I will see if that affects how long the Nitrite spike lasts.

Anyway, this has been my experience with 2 tanks. YMMV. BTW, I used 2 different ammonia detection tests on each tank, the Seachem Ammonia Alert and Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Ammonia test kit. Nitrite testing was also with 2 different test kits.


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## Tex Gal

One of the things about ADA AquaSoil that makes it so amazing is that the ammonia spike jump starts the plants. By having the A.S. without plants you don't take advantage of that feature. Not to say that the plants won't still love the A.S. but you've missed an amazing opportunity. Because the plants will grow so well you probably won't have an algae outbreak. I do recall having a little BBA but that was because I had trouble with the company that was filling my tanks with CO2. If I had been able to get my CO2 running consistently I don't think I would have even had the BBA. My plants still grew amazingly fast and the BBA was gone in less than a week. CO2 was up and running and plants out competed the algae. I had amanos and mollies in the tank to eat it all up as it died.

I say - plant heavy. Let the plants feed on the ammonia. And then sell, sell, sell and buy all those plants you want for the long term. 

Great to see you get going StuckinTexas!


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## stuckintexas

ok, everything is in and the tank is running...boy that was a long process. thanks mike for all of the plants. i stopped by the percula on the way home to grab a part and ended up grabbing two more plants. i also traded some mollies that were in the tank before i planted for some micro sword at petorama. ill take pics as soon as the water clears and i get my lights running (hopefully monday). i had a hard time finding places for all of the plants but i got them in. also, amazonia is tough to keep the plants in, my most shallow substrate is about 2.5 inches and the deepest part in the back is about 6 inches. i was using really long tweezers to push the roots all the way down and that helped but some plants were just stubborn on me. i ended up getting them all down though. ok, im off for now. thanks for the help mike and niko.


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## stuckintexas

finally go the lights going and took some pics. niko, you were right about those lights. they are bright! the water is not clear and i assume its the aquasoil leaching something in the water? i used a plate when i filled the tank and i made sure not to disturb the soil as much as i could. hopefully this will clear up soon. ill do a 75% change tonight or tomorrow and see how that works.

ammonia is through the roof, probably higher than my test kit can read which is 7ppm. only going to run the lights for 3 hours for now. co2 bubbles are moving around nice so i think thats good for now. i cant wait for the ammonia to drop and the tank to clear so i can add some fish.

I am not going to dose any ferts for now. niko, you stated that with amazonia, i should not have to dose for 2 months. Does anyone else have anything to say about this? oh, todd at the true percula suggested that i add some iron to the water and to keep it at 0.1ppm but i dont have iron right now...will i be okay without it for a while? i also do not have a test kit to know where my iron content stands right now.

about the lights, i have them over the glass top right now. niko i know you suggested that i do it without the glass and i will try that. anyone else think i should go with an open top?

thanks.

anyhow, here are the pics.


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## CrownMan

Looking good. Sounds like you have a good plan for the cloudiness. Frequent water changes are the norm for about 2 weeks. I think you said you are getting in some Rotala Rotundafolia. That will be a good addition. They are fast growers. If you need a few more, let me know.


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## stuckintexas

thanks mike.


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## Tex Gal

I think I might have my light running at least 6 or 7 hours. Your plants need light to grow and take up the ammonia. You have everything there for them to take off- ferts in soil, & CO2. Don't cut the light back or they will not be able to take up the ferts in the soil. ... two cents...


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## niko

Dave,

Don't worry too much about the clouding. If you can - add some activated carbon to your filter. It will remove a lot of this cloudiness and in 2-3 weeks it will stop working and become a great place for bacteria to colonize.

The Ammonia from the AquaSoil may persist longer than you want it. Be patient and keep up with your water changes. It's better to do smaller water changes but more often (as opposed to 75% every week or something like that). I'd change 10-15% of the water every other day. Make sure you dechlinate well too.

Do not add any fertilizers. Nada, zero. What you have at this point is stressed plants that have been recently moved and they are not going to need much more than what's in the water and in the AquaSoil. Also your plants come from Mike and they are fat and healthy so they have stored nutrients for several days.

Keeping the iron at 0.1 is a funny suggestions because the Iron is hard to detect with the test kits we have. You can dump a whole teaspoon of dry chelated iron in your tank and the test will show zero. Basically don't worry about numbers - it's simple - do your small water changes every other day and watch things happening right. This tank received no ferts whatsoever for more than 4 months after starting. Look at the thing!
http://picasaweb.google.com/ddasega/DaveS#

The lights must go above the tank with no glass under them. As I told you - if you put a glass in front you are filtering part of the spectrum that the Germans designed specifically to grow plants. Your plants will grow even with the glass under the bulbs because these "measly" 48 watts of light you got over your tank are putting much more light than we think. But you probably prefer to get the maximum benefit from the specificaly engineered spectrum of these amazing bulbs.

The light fixture fits very well over the tank. Could you take pictures of the fixure itself, I'm curioUs to see it!

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

thanks tex gal. i just did a water test and its kinda interesting.

three days ago - bare tank with 4 mollies that have been in the tank for about 4 weeks, not completely cycled but was getting close. parameters were: PH=7.4, NH3/NH4=0.25, NO2=0.25, NO3=9, GH=7, KH=4.

today - aquasoil, co2, plants, running for a little over 24 hours...lighting running for 3 hours, today was the first day of light. yesterday the tank was completely broken down beffore adding soil and everything else. parameters are: PH=6.2, NH3/NH4=6, NO2=0, NO3=0, GH=4.5, KH=3.5.

looks like the aquasoil dropped the PH down more than a whole point...maybe CO2 played a part in this as well? the aquasoil also jacked up the ammonia and my seeded filter sponge and ceramic rings cannot keep up. the aquasoil dropped my GH from 7 to 4.5.

NIKO, i will take some pics now. remember, i do not have the clips so it looks a bit ghetto right now. i have emailed reefgeek and hopefully i get a response during business hours tomorrow. i will also try calling them if i dont get an email by lunch time. for now i used insulated wire (from the workhorse 3 actually) and created loops to hold the ends of the bulb that does not have a reflector. the other bulb is held up by twisty ties and that is just until the clips come in. i will be posting the pics in a few minutes.


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## niko

la la la

--Nikolay


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## niko

I agree with TexGal, you can try to run the lights for more than 3 hours. But PLEASE watch the tank very carefully. At the first, I mean very first, a hint, of algae immediately cut back to 3 hours.

At this early stage of the tank development if you see even a 1/8 inch long strand of algae you are risking being taken for a long and quite enjoayble ride.

...or should I say "swim"?










--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

ok here goes the pics. dont laugh at the electrical tape on the stand, i am paranoid that my cats or dog could knock the fixture off the tank while im gone, id hate for the fixture to hit the ground or worse, fall in the tank...thats why i taped this thing down so if they hit the power cord or something, nothing will happen, i hope. i know this thing looks ghetto but i believe it will serve its purpose and that is growing plants and thats what i care about. looking at it on top of the tank, it doesnt look bad...these are close up pictures and the looks of it in these pics are way different than looking at it from a few feet from the tank. the flaws in my build are not really noticeable when you are just looking at the tank from anywhere in the room. also, i think the light under the reflector will be even better when i get my clips in. right now the light isnt at the focal point of the reflector but it still works nice.

here are pics of the fixture:
























you can see the aquarium sealant at the bulb ends and the electrical caps and tape on the wiring.

































electrical tape...animal proof i hope, haha.









a quick easy way to hold the ballast onto the stand, its in the back so you cannot see it. ghetto!


















and a few more pics of the tank, i think it is clearing a bit...not alot but just a bit.


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## stuckintexas

well i just checked some KH/PH CO2 tables and 3.5deg KH / 6.2 PH gives 65ppm CO2 which is super high. this cant be right. anyone have an explanation?

i use an API test kit and its directions say that each drop added is one degree of KH. I add drops until the water turns from orange to green. tonight, it turned at 3 drops and turned green even more at 4 drops so i went with a value of 3.5deg.


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## Tex Gal

Those tables don't work. They assume that the only dissolved solids in the tank are Ca and Mg. There could be many dissolved solids in there. That's why people use drop checkers. 

Your plants should take off! Your Cabomba Frucata is beautiful! (Can you flip photos so we can see them better?)


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## stuckintexas

yea, the cabomba is great and it came from mike's tank. i love the maroon color on them.

ah, you say the plants should take off...any particular reason?

thanks tex gal. oh and ill try to flip the pics.


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## Tex Gal

stuckintexas said:


> yea, the cabomba is great and it came from mike's tank. i love the maroon color on them.
> 
> ah, you say the plants should take off...any particular reason?
> 
> thanks tex gal. oh and ill try to flip the pics.


You have all the ammonia spikes from the Aqua Soil and you have high light and CO2. Perfect combination!


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## stuckintexas

i see, this is high light? i thought i was having low to medium light at best. hmmm, maybe i will be able to grow a carpet sometime.

how much is a drop checker for co2 and where can i get it?


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## stuckintexas

ok, this is 48 hours after the tank was planted. really clearing up!!


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## Tex Gal

Well, it looks like it's coming along!! Great work. Now you just have to watch and tweak as things grow. You can re-arrange as you establish a fore-ground, mid-ground and back-ground.


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## stuckintexas

looking forward to it. there is lots of room for the plants to fill in. the cabomba is my favorite.


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## CrownMan

Looking good. Yea, the purple cabomba is one of my favorites (behind Ludwigia Cuba), however, as a UT at Arlington kinda guy, "MAROON" should not be a word in your vocabulary. You will also find that the tall Hygrophila will get a nice "burnt orange" color as it grows closer to the light. If everything grows well and ammonia/nitrites become normal, foreground plants will be a nice addition to fill up the front. With the high tank height and medium width you have, you can get away with some taller foreground plants, such as the chain swords, smaller crypts, etc.

Keep the updates coming.

Welcome to the wonderful world of aquatic gardening.

Mike


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## stuckintexas

mike, the hygro does not look as good as it did in your tank. do you think it will come back to form once the tanks settles in more?

also, i still do not know how good my light can grow "high light" plants. after things get going, should i try some HC or some other carpet plant or do i simply not have enough intensity down at the bottom of the tank? to me the tank looks very bright but i always read that people are using 4-5 wpg to grow hc and glosso. i know this is not a hard and fast rule but it must mean something otherwise people would not even mention it.

i am curious how much co2 is in the water. is a drop checker the best method to determine the co2 concentration?


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## CrownMan

HC is such a difficult plant to grow well. I like the chain swords such as E. Tennulus or dwarf hairgrass to start out with. If they grow well and you don't like them, they are easy to remove, sell or trade and try with a different one. If your light is on the low to medium side, a clover or dwarf crypt might work well. 

During this early period though, I recommed you use a lot of fast growers for the first few weeks to help get the water parameters to a normal state. If you are heavily planted, lights could be on for about 7 - 8 hours a day. The cabomba will give you a hint when the lights have been on enough for it -- it will fold up its top. Stay on the alert for algae.

Good Luck,

Mike


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## stuckintexas

im a big fan of the tennulus. ill fill in the front of the tank when i get things going with it probably. it is kinda bare right now.


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## stuckintexas

been almost 72 hours and did another 10-15% WC and even more clear.

















also. i took a short video of the tank. you will notice that i spent most of the time viewing the hagen filter, i was trying to show the co2 mist and finally as i made it around the tank near the end of the clip you can see the fine mist of bubbles. this is with one jug. i added a second jug today with a t-valve. i have no idea what my co2 concentration is.
here is the video:


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## niko

Dave,

This looks VERY clean for 72 hours. Keep up with the small water changes. 

So how do you run the light now?

For the CO2 - it's best to not to try to test it, but to provide a consistent flow of it. With your DIY yeast setup you can't control the flow but you can certainly make sure it's consistent. Just make sure it doesn't go up and down. If you really get to a point where the CO2 is too much do as I told you - increase the surface turbulence (agitation) of the water. This gets rid of CO2 as if there is no tomorrow.

The sword plant in the front is a mistake. It will make big nice roots and it will grow way tall. You will end up pulling it making a big mess. Move it now while it's still small.

If you want HC I will give you some. Best HC you can buy in the entire world (actually this is true). Once again - don't listen to people's examples that you need 4 wpg to grow HC. Your lights are light years ahead of what most people use. Still, HC does love light. It also prefers to grow out of the water. It's more hassle than enjoyment really.

--Nikolay


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## niko

Dave,

Are you adding any Potassium to the tank?

If not it maybe a good thing to do it. If you don't have any I can give you some on Saturday. Let me know.

At this stage of the tank Potassium is the only fertilizer that you should add. It's not absolutely necessary, but it can only help. It can't be overdosed so you are safe with it.

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

i have kh2po4, k2so4, kno3, and plantex csm+b for traces. dry ferts. what to do? just go by the EI method?

i am getting some melting on some of the plants. i haven't added any ferts as you told me not to. you tell, ill try to do.


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## niko

Just watched the video!

Mike has given you tons of plants! If all of this starts to grow as we all hope it will you will be throwing away about 2-3 lbs. of cuttings every week.

It seems to me that on the video somewhere after minute 2 you can hear the CO2 bubbles hitting the impeller of the pump. If I'm not mistaken and this is really the rate with which your CO2 comes out then you have A LOT of CO2. 

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

did you see the co2 mist at the end of the video?!? i think its lots of co2. i added another jug today....i hope more co2 wont hurt. i am getting a little more than 1 bubble per second. yep, you can hear it from 5 feet away as you said. that diffuser rules, thanks for making the thread in the DIY section. help me out with the ferts niko. =D i just tried calling you but straight to your voicemail. just let me know what to do and ill add the ferts right now.

oh, and the recipe i used for that batch of co2 was about 1.5 cups of white sugar, 3/4 teaspoon of rapid rise yeast, 2 teaspoon baking soda, distilled water about 3/4 full in the jug. its awesome.
at one point today i heard the co2 rate really speed up, it only lasted for a few minutes but out of no where i was hearing about 3-4 bubbles a second hit the impeller. it was crazy. co2 mist galore.


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## niko

No ferts!

Maybe some Potassium but nothing else.

2 bubbles per second should be more than enough. I'm not sure you need that second jug just yet.

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

damn i dont have just straight K. maybe ill go to the store and get some seachem potassium.

tested water tonight after a 5G WC. KH=2.5, GH=4

are these numbers ok?


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## stuckintexas

ok, there might be a problem. looks like i have these little jelly looking things, kinda transparent. they are definitely moving. they are very small, a little bigger than an angelfish egg. baby snails? they werent noticeable yesterday and today i can count atleast 20 of them. they are mostly on my tank walls. what do i do?

edit: did some reading and found out that it is snails and probably came in on a plant i bought at the store. crap! how to get rid of them when they are all around the tank? i just went through and smashed about 30 of them but there are more!

maybe this explains my drop in GH? could these little guys be stealing calcium to make their shells? 2 days ago i had an extra 0.5ppm of GH in the water.


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## CrownMan

I K2SO4 is the chemical to dose Potassium that Niko is talking about adding. KNO3 is what we dose for Nitrates, it also has a little potassium in it. KH2PO4 is mainly phosphorous with potassium but is dosed so little that the potassium doesn't really count.

Since you're not getting Potassium from the other 2 macros, dose the K2SO4 at 1/2 tsp 2 to 3 times a week for your 40Gallon tank. Niko chime in if this is too much or not enough.

Another option I use is to dose Seachem Equilibrium which doses lots of Potassium with Calcium, Magnesium and some Iron. I do this in all my tanks due to Arlington water having very little magnesium. Calcium is needed for my snails and like Niko says, it is hard to overdose Potassium.

It would be wise to get a concesus on this though. Niko knows more about your lights and soil issues than I do.


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## Tex Gal

stuckintexas said:


> maybe this explains my drop in GH? could these little guys be stealing calcium to make their shells? 2 days ago i had an extra 0.5ppm of GH in the water.


Don't worry about the snails. There are many fish that eat them. No they aren't what's happening with your GH. It's the ADA AquaSoil. It will level out after a while. Without anything in your tank to eat many of the snails will probably just die off. Hang in there. You're doing great.


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## stuckintexas

everything was doing good until i tried to hook up a second jug for co2. i was going to use a t-valve but found that i had the wrong size. long story short, my first co2 jug which was pumping out co2 like crazy is now dead it seems. maybe exposing it to air did this? the second co2 jug that i just started this evening was going but it got exposed to air and seems to have died off. looks like i will get some more drinking water from the grocery store tomorrow to start a new batch. also, i have noticed a bit of algae growing on my wood. it looks like a couple of small "puff balls" about the size of half a dime. maybe i should not turn on the lights again until i get my co2 in order. thanks for the tip on the snails tex gal, i was worried about an explosion of baby snails but you made me feel better about it. mike, i will add some more k2so4 now, i only put 1/16 tsp in earlier.


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## Tex Gal

I'm not sure what you mean about the CO2 mixture being "exposed to air". The way it works is that the yeast "grows" feeding off the sugar in the water. The reasons for the baking soda, as I understand it) is that it grows better in hard water. Anyway the air doesn't make a difference. Think about baking bread.... In fact the old way was to mix flour and water and sugar and leave the dough out as it began to make it's own yeast. 

I'm not sure why your yeast slowed down. I do know that sometimes yeast is old and doesn't grow as well, but that doesn't compute since you did have growth. Maybe it grew too rapidly and used up all the sugar? Maybe it grew too fast and replaced the water with alcohol?.... I'm not sure. At any rate try leaving out the baking soda and see what happens. I never reallly measure anything but use about 2 cups sugar and 3/4 bottle (big soda bottle) of hot tap water and 1 tsp yeast. I keep my yeast in frig. as it helps preserve it.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try, again!


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## stuckintexas

ok, whipped up a new batch. ill try storing the yeast in the fridge. i used ozarka spring water the first time and it did very well. does regular tap water kill the yeast? it has chloramine and chlorine that probably isnt good. i just used water that is room temp, about 78 degrees. please clarify if i can use tap water, or do i need to dechlorinate it, or is it best to use drinking water like ozarka or something. thanks.

as to what happened to the co2...i dont know? it was going very very strong and when i cut the tubing to put in the tvalve, it let off alot of pressure so it was still good. at the time i was getting 1 bubble per second. then after i hooked it back up it just never got going again. instead my airline started to siphon water into it slowly, after a few hours it went up the tube about 20 inches. i started a new batch with untreated tap water about 1 in the morning and went to bed. woke up and nothing. no co2 production. on that batch it was 103 degree F tap water and like i said untreated. i tried the higher temp because i read that it makes the yeast kick in quicker. but again, i had no co2 production when i woke up. i went to the store and grabbed some ozarka and made a batch with that and went to work. when i get home tonight i am really hoping i see some nice co2 going on. i miss it =(


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## niko

2 things could mess up your DIY CO2:

1. For whatever reason when the yeast is making CO2 full speed if you open the bottle and the pressure in the bottle drops you often loose production. Don't ask me why. It happens.

2. Room temperature. It got pretty cool around here the last few days. Maybe your A/C is running as before but cooling the house better now. The best CO2 production happens at 75 and above degrees I think.

Do not use tap water. Would you put untreated tap water in your aquarium? The yeast is a living creature too so help it help you.

This CO2 fluctuation is probably the cause for these algae. I say get an air tubing and get the tank water running in a bucket. Put the tubing close to the algae and scrape them with your fingernail. Make sure you suck all of the algae that way. Hand cleaning is effective but only when you have very little algae.

Well, you are probably starting to understand why eventually you will get a pressurized CO2 system.

--Nikolay


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## Tex Gal

I use regular tap water. It doesn't seem to matter. Hate to contradict Niko, but mine works fine. I bake bread and know that regular tap water doesn't seem to bother yeast. It certainly doesn't hurt to use store bought water but yeast doesn't care.

I do think that the temp of the air makes a difference in how fast your yeast grows. It would probably take quite a while for your yeast to build up the same pressure which you unleashed. I have sometimes stuck my bottle in a pan of hot water so that the yeast water heats up again and I get much more CO2. Yeast grows fastest at around 110 degrees so you can see why room temperature would slow it down.


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## stuckintexas

i think that opening the bottle and equalizing the pressure with the room pressure is what halted the co2 production. also, my house is on a digital programmed thermostat and it never gets below 77 degrees right now unless i tell it to. anyhow, the new batch of yeast is kicking ass right now. ill post a video as soon as it uploads. the most co2 production this tank has seen yet.

one of my stems of purple cabomba is growing fast. it has already reached the surface of the water. probably about 6 inches of growth since it was planted saturday evening. i guess i will top it soon and plant the cutting. the cabomba has lost its purple colored tops. maybe because lack of ferts? what will make it get its nice color back?

bubbles =


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## CrownMan

You might want to consider keeping a bottle of Seachem's Excel around in case you have a glitch with the DIY CO2. It is an alternate Carbon source that some people, myself included, use as their only source of Carbon in a tank. The Purple Cabomba you have was grown in an Excel only tank.

The only recommendation I can make on getting the color back is to add Iron and traces. I dose daily in all of my Carbon supplemented (Excel and CO2) tanks with Seachem's Iron and Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive. Even the new Aquasoil tanks. I dose approximately 1ml per gallon on the Excel tanks and 2ml per gallon daily on the CO2 tanks.

YMMV.


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## stuckintexas

mike, i think i will try that but first i wanna hear what niko says. he must have reasons for telling me to dose only K right now. for now, im going to go get the algae off my driftwood. that seems to be the place it likes to grow.

the plants look pretty good overall.

btw, what is that small plant that you gave me? you gave me two of them and it looks like blyxa J.


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## CrownMan

It was either Blyxa Japonica or Echinodorus Bolivianus. You will be able to tell if there is a daughter plant that can grow off a runner. In that case it will be Echinodorus B. cause it is a chain sword. The Blyxa J. propogates by growing another stem off of the main stem.

Good idea checking with Niko.

Good Luck and keep posting pics.


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## stuckintexas

i had to trim a stem of the cabomba tonight. my first cutting! i see one or two more that will be ready soon. i cut it because it was peaking through the surface of the water. also, i noticed that the cabomba has its color still, i can really see it when the light goes off and the tops close up. it isnt as obvious during the photoperiod while the tops are wide open. its really a neat plant how it opens and closes and has that nice maroon color. it also grows really nice and looks very healthy. it is my favorite plant right now.

i will be gone all weekend so when i get back ill do some more work on the tank (algae, WC, whatever else) and ill get some pics. 

I cant wait until the toxins are out of the water so i can get some fish in here. this tank can really benefit from some shrimp and otos. after the bacteria handles that addition ill be adding some cardinals.


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## stuckintexas

niko said:


> Dave,
> 
> This looks VERY clean for 72 hours. Keep up with the small water changes.
> 
> So how do you run the light now?
> 
> For the CO2 - it's best to not to try to test it, but to provide a consistent flow of it. With your DIY yeast setup you can't control the flow but you can certainly make sure it's consistent. Just make sure it doesn't go up and down. If you really get to a point where the CO2 is too much do as I told you - increase the surface turbulence (agitation) of the water. This gets rid of CO2 as if there is no tomorrow.
> 
> The sword plant in the front is a mistake. It will make big nice roots and it will grow way tall. You will end up pulling it making a big mess. Move it now while it's still small.
> 
> If you want HC I will give you some. Best HC you can buy in the entire world (actually this is true). Once again - don't listen to people's examples that you need 4 wpg to grow HC. Your lights are light years ahead of what most people use. Still, HC does love light. It also prefers to grow out of the water. It's more hassle than enjoyment really.
> 
> --Nikolay


niko, sorry i missed this post. i am running the lights at 6 hours a day from 3pm to 9pm. i have it later so i can atleast get some viewing time in. read and understood about the co2 and same goes for the micro sword...i will move it further back today. thanks for talking me out of the HC, i dont think it would look good in this tank anyway. now some shorter hair type grass or something might look good. also, i bet some phoenix moss or something would look good on that rock i have in there. oh you mentioned subwassertang. does that have roots or would i hair net it to a rock?


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## stuckintexas

i plan on getting around 20 shrimp for this tank. i am afraid that my rena xp2 intake will suck them in. should i get a sponge to cover the intake? if so, can anyone suggest a good place to find such a sponge? also, should i worry about this sponge impeding the flow too much?


----------



## CherylR

I just use the Aquaclear sponges from Petsmart. They are supposed to go inside their HOB filters, but I cut a hole in the center and cram them onto the intake strainer. 

It will reduce flow when the sponge becomes dirty.


----------



## stuckintexas

i have one of those. ill try it. thanks!


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## stuckintexas

increased the lighting. now running 2-9pm. no big algae issues. a little bit on the wood that i clear every 4 days or so but its not multiplying super fast. my stems are growing fast it seems. just had to cut 5 cabomba stems and i see some other plants moving up toward the light quick...seems like they grow over an inch a day....maybe they do. if things stay good then ill try going to 8 hours of light next week maybe. still only dosing K2SO4 every other day. I dose it right after I do a 5G WC. this tank is probably holding about 38G of water total.


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## niko

So it appears that you have 48 watts of light over a 40 gallon tank. A little more than 1 wpg that is, haha! And the stems are growing well.

I'm anxious to see the future of this tank. You had the best start you can think of with Mike's super healthy plants, Aquasoil, and these Giesemann bulbs.

How is the CO2 holding? Is the CO2-flow consistent?

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

yea its a good start. im most excited about my E. bolivianus growth. its going good and has started runners and with nice leaves coming off the runners every few inches. i am thinking it will be a nice foreground if i keep it trimmed. also the ludwiga that i put in from a LFS is growing pretty quick (although nothing grows as fast as the cabomba it seems) but the leaves had a nice red color to them and the new growth does not...i assume its because of the lack of ferts...anyone know?

CO2...its holding nice. I get 2 clicks per second on the hagen filter and its putting out a nice mist. the bubbles arent as large as day one when it was really chugging but it seems consistent other than that. you saw the my second youtube video that i shot on day one of this jug. i can see bubbles moving around in the current all over the tank. i am debating starting a second jug tomorrow and throwing it on the tvalve but i might wait until i get back on sunday. i will be gone from friday through sunday for the golf tourney.

also, i am starting to think of how i could have placed the stem plants better when i first started the tank. i kinda grouped the species but not entirely. some of the plants are shaded but they are doing ok. i dont want to mess with anything right now as the tank is doing well i think. but, in the future i am going to "scape" it if you will. now that i see how these plants grow i have a better idea as to where i am going to place them in the tank. i also know that this tank will be so full of growth eventually that i am going to have to rip some of the plants out to make good light for the plants that stay in the tank. it should be fun.

the ammonia is finally starting to go down slightly. today, out of nowhere, my tank is a bit cloudy. it really reminds me of my first bacteria bloom when i set the tank up years ago. it may be that or it could just be that the filter is getting full. the cloudyness looks like it has no color, just kinda white...basically the water is less clear but not a whole lot.

i would take pics but my g/f's camera got stolen last weekend. in fact, it was a bad night...her entire person got jacked. the purse was worth $400 (don't ask why she spent so much on it as i don't understand women very well) along with her cell phone, wallet, and like i said the new digital camera. bummer. soon enough we should be buying another one (i just love those things) and ill get some more pics.

niko, how long should i wait to start doing my entire arsenal of ferts?

niko, did you ever go to keller farms last weekend? if so, tell me about it.

edit: i also am noticing an oily looking film on the water surface today. never noticed it before so i think it finally popped up. i knew it would happen eventually. what is it? where did it come from? any ill effects?

oh and i also added one plant...anubias nana petit on next to the driftwood.its anchored down by a small rock buried in the aquasoil and its roots are touching the wood and the aquasoil so it should anchor eventually. i really gotta try to keep the leaves clean of any algae if it occurs.


----------



## niko

Dave,

I see that you are starting to see how careful planting pays off. Also how fast growing plants can become a headache. Still it's funny to me to read that under 1 wpg of light you experience growth that is too fast. I warned you about these bulbs!

I'd say let the bacteria bloom be. Do smaller water changes than you usually do. Basically let the bacteria go their way, don't try to fight them. If you fight them they will last longer. But beaware that when they start to die off by themselves the ammonia will spike a little.

I got me a purse for $10K last night so tell your girfriend to not worry too much. Mine has a Mickey Mouse on the front... I put it there as a theft prevention measure, but I think it hurts my style...

Don't worry about the fertilizers for now. Just forget them. It's too early. Dose the Potassium only as you have been.

I will make it to Keller Farms this Saturday before the meeting.

The film on top of the water is a completely normal thing in new tanks. Do not try to fight it by manual removal. It's impossible to remove completely. The best approach is to agitate the surface of the water (by pointing the outflow of the filter up) so the film gets under water and gets processed by the filter. The film may last several weeks, don't worry too much about it. But don't let it develop too much and block light and gas exchange.

The anubias will get spot algae for sure. It's a normal thing unless you are experienced aquarist... and own a Mikey Mouse purse (like me!).

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

yea, i have enough surface agitation. no biggie.

it seems that everything is going right...the only thing i can do better right now is replant the tank so the plants are placed more strategically...but thats no biggie. ill just let it grow for now.

all i can do is wait...wait for things to grow and keep trimming away. wait for ammonia to drop and nitrite to drop...i cant wait to see 0ppm...need to add some fish.

just so you know niko. to start i will want 10 cherry reds, 10 amanos, 4 or 5 otos. if you can provide that, ill meet you in dallas or when you come by arlington/ft. worth on weekends and ill buy them all from you. that will be a great day.

thanks.


----------



## stuckintexas

been a little over 2 weeks now and still reading 6-7ppm ammonia. how long is this going to last?


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## niko

It comes from the AquaSoil so it maybe a long time - several weeks.

Forget the Ammonia - tell us how well the plants grow and do you see any algae.

Also it is possible that your test kit is not correct. I just got an Ammonia test kit and it shows Ammonia in every water sample I test.

--Nikolay


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## Tex Gal

Lets see a shot of your great growth! Sounds like everything's coming up roses!


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## stuckintexas

well ive used this api test kit for years and it seems accurate. forever, ive had 0ppm when i had a fish only tank and a mature bio filter. ive seen it range from 0ppm to now 7ppm now. it seems accurate, all readings make sense to me.

i had been removing some bba off my driftwood 3 times last week. i left for the weekend and came back to none. there seem to be some diatoms on the rock surface but no biggie. no real algae problems yet, knock on wood and keep fingers crossed.

i did have a problem though. my DIY slowed down the day before i left so i whipped up a new batch and threw it on a tvalve along with the old batch that was still producing. when i came back from a 3 day weekend i noticed that the new batch didnt produce. so i tried a new batch yesterday night and that didnt produce. i did the same recipe that totally put high ammounts of co2 in the water as you can see in the videos. the problem i think is that i put the yeast in the refrigerator as i read that it preserves it but i think that it really didnt help. i went to the store tonight and bought brand new yeast and took the tvalve out. just hooked up a single bottle with a new batch onto my check valve so in a few hours i should see some co2 again. this diy is pissing me off. i like how it produces when it works but everytime i try to put on a new batch i get poor results = no co2 at all. i have decided that the tvalve idea sucks for me so i am going to stick with the recipe that works and just swap a new jug every week or whenever i notice a decline in the co2...so far, my recipe puts out good co2 for a week. i will change the jug at night so hopefully by the morning it will be producing and by the time the lights come on at 2pm it should be chugging along. luckily, my plants dont look bad from this 4 days of no co2 at all. ive kept the lights running for 7 hours a day and the plants are growing and seem happy. dont get me wrong, i want co2 and i know how dangerous it can be to not have it...algae, bad plant growth, etc...

as far as pics go. let me see how my new iphone works for that. right now i have no digital camera. =(

edit: woke up this morning to no co2. i see that the pressure is pushing the water out of the airline some but not all the way. maybe i have a small leak somewhere and not enough pressure is there. i guess i will rip out the old lining, check and clean the hagen filter and put in new lining and check valve. this diy stuff is pissing me off. this will now be 5 days of no co2.

update: ok i did a 40% WC, after that added good amount of K and added excel for the first time. my co2 is still not working right so i had to do something. i also added some zeolite to the filter in hopes of knocking down the ammonia...ill just have to monitor the levels over the next few weeks. i took out the hagen filter/diffuser and put in new airline, a better check valve (better because the airline seals on it better) and im trying to eliminate any leaks...i dont know where a leak could have been because everything was working fine before and nothing was changed. who knows????

we still dont have a digital camera so i took some shots with the iphone. they turned out so-so but i had to delete many of them due to blurriness. if you arent perfectly steady then the shot goes to crap.

here are the photos:
the plant in the center that is tall kinda in the back...really pisses me off. its growing fast and shading the plants underneath it. as a result they dont grow as nice.









here is that plant again, upper left corner. does anyone know what it is called?
also, in this pic you can see the chain sword (E. bolivianus i think??) is growing its runners nicely.

































here is a shot of it again,top part of the picture, growing tall.









tops of the cabomba, i was steady when i took it but its blurry still because the water is moving above it.









another plant that i like, i dont know what its called...can anyone help me identify? its leaves are getting much larger than when i got it from mike.









kinda blurry, my new nana petite.









the moss is growing nicely i think.
































i know that this tank isn't "scaped" but right now im just trying to grow the plants. cut them as they get too tall, replant and try to grow some more. after i get them growing nicely i will get rid of what i dont want and keep what i want and also add some slower growers so i dont have to trim everything so often. man that purple cabomba grows super fast. it will grow over a foot in a matter of days. and keep fingers crossed, knock on wood, whatever...im not seeing any algae outbreaks.


----------



## niko

I see that you have tasted the joys of having a lot of stem plants AND having them grow well, haha. You will have the same problems over and over again - someone gets too tall, shades the rest, you cut it but another one takes over. This is the world of stem plants so don't try to fight it. Enjoy it for as long as you want.

The chainsword is Echinodorus latifolius. It spreads quickly. Also it seems to sell well here on APC and on PT.

The plant that is making you mad with its fast growth is Hygrophila polysperma. Same as the variegated form that you probably love.

The CO2 thing is a huge problem. If you have CO2 going up and down like that prepare for an algae takeover one sunny day. Either use brand new packets of yeast every time you mix a batch or figure something else.

Overall - great growth and a very clean tank. Good start!

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

thanks niko. how long until i can safely go with non-stem plants?
the way i understand it, stem plants are fast growing and can combat algae growth in a new tank...soooo how long is a tank a "new tank?" id like to trade some of this polysperma as soon as i can.

also, i have snails and i think they are munching on the leaves...do they eat leaves? its either that or i am getting holes in the leaves because of a nutrient deficiency.

im loving how well the chain sword grows in this tank and i think i am going to use it to fill in the front of the tank eventually. it grows new runners everyday it seems so i will be selling it or trading it as needed. its nice to know i am growing something that people want.

yep, i know this co2 issue is big and someday ill put it to rest with a nice pressurized system with ph controller...for now im going to have to deal with it.

this plant thing is fun and the only thing that is beating me down and making me worried about the tank is the co2. if i didnt have to worry about it, all would be good.


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## Tex Gal

I see your growth is great! That's the joys of new ADA AS and those fantastic light Niko told you about!  

The plant in the 8th px looks like a Bacopa. Not sure what kind.


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## stuckintexas

texgal. i think you are right about the bacopa. i remember mike telling me that he was giving me bacopa but i couldnt remember which one it was.

thanks!

btw, can anyone help identify these?

its the little plant on the right side of the picture about midway between top and bottom of the photo.









here is another small one, same type of plant as the one above, front center of the photo, its blurry.









also, a different plant that loses all of its leaves if its shaded and only keeps those leaves in direct light. it is in the front of the picture. anyone know what it is?









another plant i have i found in a picture of another tank. it floats unless you tie it down like in this picture. in this tank it is held down by these rocks it looks like. there is more of it floating up at the top left of the pic. what is it?
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_iwi71BNBvv4/R6X-OWJo68I/AAAAAAAAAfU/Tt6onZ9O4v8/IMG_0217.JPG


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## CrownMan

Bacopa Carolinia. It is used as a spice in the orient. It has a minty smell to it when freshly cut. As it gets near the light it will produce some red coloring in the top leaves. The chain sword grows low for me in my non co2 tanks but will grow about 6 to 8" tall with heavy co2 and ferts. There is some debate on the name but I call it Echinodorus "Cheryl Rogers" because I got it from her at a plant club meeting about 18 months ago. I think I gave you some mermaid weed also and that may be one of the other plants you are asking about. Proserpernica Palustris I believe is the latin name.


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## stuckintexas

thanks mike!


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## niko

The small stem plant on the first 2 pictures is Rotala. It is a very typical stem plant. Look at this 2 ft. tall tank. The red plant that has filled the top left and the green plant under it are both Rotalas:
http://www.aquatic-plants.org/gallery/180galJan04

The Bacopa that Mike gave you already had huge leaves. The biggest ones I've ever seen. If it makes even bigger leaves in your tank then you must have some kind of a mutant or something. Or the AquaSoil and those lights work wonders.

Next time you trim the Bacopa smell it - you will definitely smell the minty smell that Mike is talking about.

For your information - a pressurized CO2 system with a 5 lb. bottle + regulator + needle valve + an in-tank reactor will cost about $120. If you have to have the controller then it will be more. You can try without the controller at first and if you can't live without it then spend the money for it.

If you can grow this Prosepinaca (the plant with the "spikes" on the leaves) then I will admit that the water in Arlington is indeed superior. I can't do anything with that plant - I love it and it always dwindles away in my tanks.

If you have some Hygrophila polysperma to give away I will gladly take it.

For now make sure that your CO2 is staying stable. Or you will be showing us very different pictures here in a short while...

--Nikolay


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## Tex Gal

I also have the bacopa that has huge leaves. It came as a tiny sprig (3 leaf rows) floating with some fish I ordered online. The type I have does not turn red in high light. It stays a bright green. The only name I've been able to come up with is Bacopa sp. I had it on plant ID and that's all the experts were able to tell me. (The sp means it's a special kind and nobody knows what kind -lol)

I agree with Niko about the CO2 DIY is so hard. I have run out of sugar in my plant grow out tank and and dumping excell in there to keep the dreaded algae away. I see an immediate trip to the grocery store!


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## stuckintexas

Niko, I have two kinds of polysperma. The green and the sunset. Next time we meet I can give you some. Can you give me links to the co2 equipment that costs $120? If I knew it was only that much cash I would have considered it sooner. Btw, I found a leak in my bottle cap and that's why there was no gas going into the tank. It's fixed and I have good co2 today. I'm going to have to get this system perfected until I spend the money on pressurized. Thanks for the input niko and texgal.


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## niko

*** Regulator:
$40 + shipping.
http://www.beveragefactory.com/draf...mercial_double_gauge_beer_co2_regulator.shtml

*** Needle valve:
From me. Free.
Or from the internet for about $20 + shipping.

*** 5 lb. CO2 bottle:
Find a local welding supply shop. 5 lbs should cost about $60. 10 lbs. about $80.

*** In-tank reactor:
Any small powerhead with a sponge over the outflow.
Best is to buy the "Elite Mini Underwater Filter" from Petco for $10.

*** Air tubing:
From any pet store.

Done.

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

thanks. i already have air tubing and the elite mini filter. i would need a regulator, 5# tank, and needle valve for free. =)

looks like that would cost me $100 plus some shipping costs on the regulator...not bad!

oh, i read about buying good needle valves, not cheap-o ones. you say you have one for free...does it do the job?

no offense, i know you wouldn't suggest me using something that would suck...i guess i just wanna know how important the needle valve is.

also, i have this fear of the co2 tank having a malfunction and shooting off like a missle through my house, through the tv, blasting my dog, breaking my tank, going through the wall or window, etc... what is the potential of an accident like this?

i know DIY co2 is a pain but atleast it cant become a crazy projectile. my girlfriend would kill me if she knew i was storing something that dangerous in our house.

also, what about a bubble counter? necessary or waste of cash?
and, should i get one of those drop checkers to see if im in the right range of co2 concentration?
id hate to have too much in the tank and be killing fish.

oh, niko...so when do i get to come take a tour of all of your tanks?


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## niko

Dave,

The needle valves come in different flavors. Just like people in this hobby - some love to tinker with gadgets that you don't really need. An example is a crazy precise needle valve that you will set once and never even look at it again. The simplest needle valve does just fine and that's what I will give you.

No need for a bubble counter. Remember - the Elite filter will make a minute noise with every bubble going in it. That is your bubble counter - listen and count.

No need for a liquid showing you how much CO2 you have. Better save your money for a controller if you really really want one.

The CO2 exploding/releasing is a very small risk. I've had only one bottle releasing the extra pressure that the dummies at the welding supply place severely overfilled with gas. Even then the bottle doesn't get airborne. It has 4 holes in the safety valve that make 4 jets that shoot in different directions. So the bottle doesn't fly. But it freezes over and freezes the surrounding area about 2 ft. around the bottle. Don't leave your cup of hot cocoa close to the bottle - it may get too cold in the unlikely event that the bottle is overfilled and releases the gas.

That's about it - you are $100 away from never mixing another yeast concoction.

Coming to my house - any time, just let me know and save money for gas a couple of weeks in advance.

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

good morning and thanks for the laugh, my first one of the day...im talking about your comment on all the gas i will use going to north of dallas and back. maybe i should buy the co2 regulator and tank first, heh. so if i store the co2 tank under my fish tank and lets say that the safety release blew and all the gas came out in a super cold state and it froze everything within 2 feet. would it freeze my tank bottom and make the glass crack, dumping everything on the floor? im just trying to think of a good location for it.


----------



## stuckintexas

oh, last night i tested for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate and its about damned time i see some changes. the ammonia has dropped from 7ppm to around 4ppm. nitrite finally showed up. nitrate too, i have about 5ppm.

i dont know exactly because im color deficient and reading those color cards is tough. hopefully soon ill be able to add some critters.



update: just got home from work and tested the water. im excited. the ammonia dropped to 1-2ppm. the nitrite also dropped to about 0.5ppm. as expected the nitrate skyrocketed to approx. 20ppm. im going to do a 10-15% WC right now. looks like im almost ready for some fishes.


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## stuckintexas

niko said:


> Dave,
> 
> That's about it - you are $100 away from never mixing another yeast concoction.
> 
> --Nikolay


until i set my 29G up.

its just sitting there empty and asking to be cleaned out and planted. i will have to wait a while though because i need to buy some things for it: giesemann lights, amazonia sub, another hagen elite filter/diffuser, rena xp2, hydor inline heater.

cant wait, it will be fun.


----------



## stuckintexas

there is one more plant in here that i dont know the identity of. can anyone help? i think its ludwiga or something but i dont know. got it from a LFS.

here are a few shots, some are blurry and sorry but the camera is impossible to work with.
its the stem in the center. the old leaves are dark and the new growth is much lighter.
























again, its in the center.









ok, some shots of growth:









a top shot of some little guys that im trying to get plenty of light to









bacopa caroliniana
















quarter for scale...these leaves are big









top shot of bacopa and hygro poly green









purple cabomba tops









E. Latifolius

















hygro poly green

















hygro poly sunset


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## CrownMan

Looks like it could be Ludwigia Repens.


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## stuckintexas

new growth on the sunset is not very straight. the leaves looked like crumpled up paper that has been straightened out somewhat. anyone know why this could be and how to fix it?

thanks.


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## niko

How are all the other plants doing?

The hygro is exibiting some kind of slight nutrient deficiency. I personally would put a 1/4 teaspoon of Calcium once a week in the tank. 

If that doesn't fix it then the next week 1/4 teaspoon of Magnesium (Epsom Salt from the drug store).

If that doesn't fix it then next week 1-2 pinches of Fe/Traces (I consider CSM+B the best).

If that doesn' fix it then next week 2-3 pinches of Nitrate.

If that doesn't fix it then next week 1-2 pinches of Phosphate.

If that doesn't fix it give up on that plant. No matter what you do some plants just wouldn't grow in your tank, always remember that. 

Also note how I give a whole week for every fertilizer to do its magic. Like all of us you will tend to get impatient and dump all sorts of stuff in the tank at the same time. Big mistake, don't fall for it. Be patient

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

thanks niko.

the other plants look good...but my cabomba isnt nearly as red as mike's...i think im going to try to add some flourish iron to the water to see if that helps. overall everything is good.

tank is fully cycled and my plants are using any nitrates in the tank...i tested this morning at 0ppm nitrate and i havent done a WC in a few days. i now have cardinals, pearl danios, and rcs in the tank and everything is good. im keeping a very close eye for ammonia spikes.

mike, i need to bring some of this sunset over for you before it turns to crap on me. im sure you will get it looking good.


----------



## CrownMan

I have a spot for it next to my variegated wisteria in the new 20long. Hopefully I can grow it ok.

How are the cherries doing? They might hide until they get totally acclimated. When you do the next water change, the males will start swimming all around the tank.

Thanks


----------



## stuckintexas

they seem ok. when i put them in there the danios were trying to get the very small rcs. the larger rcs were not harmed. the danio attacks were so quick and the shrimp so small that i couldnt tell if they were eaten or not. either way i fed the shrimp this morning and saw plenty of them come out to eat.

mike, i can come by this week and drop a couple stems off for you.


----------



## stuckintexas

How do I buy calcium?


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## niko

You get it for free from me cause I have 50 lbs and I don't want to have this bag all my life...

--Nikolay


----------



## stuckintexas

very cool


----------



## Tex Gal

niko said:


> You get it for free from me cause I have 50 lbs and I don't want to have this bag all my life...
> 
> --Nikolay


:lol:

Hey Niko, thanks for that plant deficiency fix it list. I have saved that to a note pad. I'm having issues with my Ludwigia Guinea. Seems to be stunting. I have it in my shrimp tank. I think it needs for nitrate than I can dose. I think I need to move it to another tank and see how it does....

Looking great Stuck-in-Texas!!! Great plant growth. Glad about your tank done cycling.. Now you can enjoy!


----------



## stuckintexas

thanks texgal.

just upped my lights to 9 hours a day. did a trim and have lots of extra hygrophila polysperma green that i will need to give to you niko.

here are a couple pics.


















the new crumpled sunset growth









ludwiga cuba just added on friday









cardinals









top of the cuba and there is some sunset on the bottom right









cabomba tops closing up near the end of their day









here is something that i havent seen before. there are oxygen bubbles coming out of a cut stem on the hygro poly green. i cut it yesterday.


----------



## stuckintexas

here is a comparison:

day 3:









1 month:









after the trim:









almost forgot i had this rotala (anyone know what kind it is?) it was hidden by the hygrophila polysperma:









i really hope i can grow this ludwiga cuba, it looks cool when healthy:









maybe an answer to why my sunset growth is nearly white.
from plantfinder: "Iron is another factor in intense coloration�without enough Fe in the water column, this plant will become pale or, in extreme deficiencies, even white."


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## Tex Gal

I dose extra Iron when I dose my traces. My colors are great.. especially with my new lights.


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## niko

Dave,

This is a very healthy tank with extremely well growing plants. Look what you accomplished in less than what? 4 weeks?

It is time for you to start some pruning exercises and try to shape the plants so they don't look like long strings of something with leaves on them.

What I mean is the stem plants need to form tight groups. That makes them look extremely nice. Cram as many stems together as you have. This will make them look very bushy and full. Look at this tank to get an idea:
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r10/rogerio_05/OliverKnott2004-01.jpg

As you now understand it will take only a few days for these nice looking clumps of stem plants to extend to the surface. Please accept that as part of the game. There is no way around that. But you can make your life easier with a few simple things:

1. Every time you trim you are cutting off the top of the plants and giving them away or something. This leaves ugly stems in your tank. They make new tops in a few days but still. One way around that is to cut the BOTTOM part of the stems and always leave the tops in your tank. It is best if you do not plant the stems in the substrate. Basically you weight them down with a rock and let them stay suspended in the water. When they grow and reach the surface you pull the entire bunch out of the tank and cut off the bottom section. Re-attach the rock and drop back in the tank. Instant results!

OR:

2. Time the trimming of the plants in such a way that you never have to trim all of them in the same day. This requires more care but you now know what I'm talking about.

AND/OR:

3. Keep the nutrients and the light to a minimum so the plants don't grow 3 inches in 3 days and force you to trim like crazy.

ALWAYS:

4. Make DAMN SURE that you do not let plants like that grassy looking thing in front mingle with the others. You will have hell removing the plants that you want to. You will end up uprooting much more than you mean to, mess up your tank, and generally miss the fun. If you see a new plantlet popping up where you don't want him/her remove them right away.

After a few months of fun with stem plants you will get tired and switch to slower growing rooted plants. It's a natural thing to get sick of having to take care of the tank every other day so expect that.

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

thanks nikolay. i need to do a trim today and will try grouping them tighter.

what i have been doing to get more plants is every time i cut a top i replant the top and leave the bottom in hopes of doubling my plant mass. it has been working as the tank is getting full...even my girlfriend who has no interest in tanks mentioned that the tank is getting too full and that i need to thin it out.

i really need to get rid of some hyrophila polysperma green...i know you said you want some so ill get that to you this weekend hopefully.

im already sick of fast growing stems... i like stem plants but want pretty ones which grow slow to medium pace. its okay to have a variety or two that grow fast, as long as every plant in the tank isn't fast, ya know? its time for me to start collecting/trading for some other plants. a meeting is coming up in october and that might be a good place for something like this.

as far as the echinodorus "grassy things" in the front, well i have been moving their runners in a u-turn back to where they came from. they grow a new runner into farther reaches of the tank every day. sneaky little plant. =D


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## niko

Dave,

This Bacopa you gave me has leaves almost the size of the Basil leaves in my yard! The Bacopa leaves are easily 3/4" long! This is a mutant Bacopa or the Arlington water is magical or I don't know...

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

glad you like. i told you it was big! haha.

it must be the city water.

what about the hygro, were you able to do anything with it?



the fish are doing well so far. the otos are very active and the pygmys hide alot but when they come out, they come out together and school well. i never though that these cories would school in the mid level of the tank...always expected them to be bottom dwellers all the time.


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## niko

Oh, pygmy cories are ultra cool fish. I never realized that before seeing them school mid-water. It also seems that they like bigger schools, that's why I suggested as many as you can get.

The Hygro is due for normal planting, right now it's floating in some tank along with a million other plants. Today I'll do something about that.

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

anyone care to help with a co2 setup?
check the link: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/equipment/48645-co2-solenoid-question-2.html


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## niko

This CO2 business is a matter of finding fittings. If someone knows a good source that will be great. I personally don't.

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

FYI
i went to two different hardware stores and they both had a great assortment of brass fittings. ace hardware and lowes...i imagine home depot is the same but i didnt go there.


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## niko

Hm, assortment yes. But do they have what you need? 

I've spend countless hours in HD and Lowe's and just thinking about the time spent there makes me feel dizzy. That's why I'm very suspicious about assuming they have what I need.

If you indeed find the fittings there, please post part numbers or something that identifies them.

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

niko, i was there for 10 minutes and found 2 pieces of brass. i brought my regulator in the store to try the fittings out and it was perfect. standard size NPT connectors with proper thread pitch...everything is standard.

grabbed the 1/4"(M) x 1/8"(F) reducer and then a 1/8"(M) x 1/8"(M) to connect to my female ended solenoid. very easy! they literally had 1/2 an isle dedicated to brass plumbing fittings.

the white stuff is the plumbers tape.
















poopy iphone camera...


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## niko

Oh, that was easy!

Now how do you attach the needle valve to that contraption?

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

well i have a clippard needle valve in the mail coming to me right now. it comes with the proper attachment.

but to connect the needle valve that you gave me i would just use a 1/8" x 1/16" reducer kinda like what i just did above but smaller. i just unscrew the end of the needle valve and find a 1/16" male connector to screw into it. if i couldnt find that size then i could use a 1/8" fitting with a barbed end...same end that the needle valve currently has. i could take airline and connect it to the barb and then to the needle valve.

no doubt the cleaner way to install is by finding the right fittings and i brought the needle valve to work with me so on my way home i will stop by the store just to see if they have a 1/16" size. if they do i will be really tempted to go buy the cylinder today and hook it up when i get home...the other needle valve coming in the mail i could just use on the next tank.


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## stuckintexas

after swapping some plants at the meeting and adding a co2 tank, here is a full tank shot.


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## CrownMan

Nice Tank. Plants look great. Are they perling yet?

I have a few more Rotala Vietnam and Blyxa if you need them.

Mike


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## stuckintexas

thanks mike. i may take you up on the viet and blyxa. ill have to bring by a piece of the L. pantanal for you...i hope i can grow it. no pearling...however the other night i had my cuba create one single pearl in the top-center-most part of the plant. maybe im not getting enough co2 in the water.

i ordered a drop checker. i figure whats the point of going compressed gas if i dont get enough of it in the water. maybe im not pearling because i dont have enough co2 or maybe just not enough light.

oh and another thing im pleased about is the new sunset growth is really turning red/pink.


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## stuckintexas

trying some new plants. got rid of some old plants.

i really hacked the hell out of the tank today. no worries, this stuff has been growing quick.

niko, see the mermaid weed?









wonder how long it takes glosso to fill in, same goes for hairgrass. maybe it will turn out to be a big mess.









tops of the ludwigia pantanal

















thats all, nothing big here. but i cant wait to see this when it grows in. mike, the pantanal is more delicate looking than the cuba and seems to have shorter leaves.

part of the problem is that when these plants grow to the water surface they really shade the bottom...i think im going to add a third 24W bulb, the aquaflora one. gonna also have a reflector for each bulb. right now im running two 24W bulbs and only one with reflector.

also, ive read more on T5HO ballasts and if you buy one get a programmed start ballast instead of an instant start. niko, you may wanna suggest this to people in the future if you give any advice on ballasts.


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## CrownMan

The L. Pantanal is looking great. I like the way it looks from the top. Keep up the good work.


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## JAXON777

be patient with the glosso it will take a while but once it gets rooted it will go everywhere. tanks looks good I have a 30 hex (i think) with just shrimp in it and some low light plants.


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## stuckintexas

thanks jaxon! hex tanks are tough to make look nice i think. my next tank will probably be in the neighborhood of 90G and hopefully as wide as possible. i would like to do a dutch layout with a nice sized foreground.


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## supersmirky

Looks great. Have you seen the pearling yet? Mine seem to pearl yet I have the crappiest CO2 reactor. 

Keep us updated. That is a very nice layout of the scape you got going so far


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## Squawkbert

Looking good - w/ hairgrass/glosso combi - you're going to end up either doing a lot of work in that area, or having to choose between them as I think the hairgrass will tend to want to take over, pushing the glosso out.


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## stuckintexas

yea, i guess now is the time to decide before it gets too messy. tough decision.


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## stuckintexas

supersmirky said:


> Looks great. Have you seen the pearling yet? Mine seem to pearl yet I have the crappiest CO2 reactor.
> 
> Keep us updated. That is a very nice layout of the scape you got going so far


havent had any pearling. ive seen my plants do it before but not consistently and definitely not in a while. must need more light or something.


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## supersmirky

They still look like they are doing good. I saw your video on youtube as well...looks very nice! I hope to be there one day.


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## stuckintexas

all my first plants came from crownman, if i can do it you can do it...same plants and you are pretty much doing the same thing i am but you have more light so i expect yours to do very well...just takes a couple weeks.


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## stuckintexas

the pantanal is showing some deficiency. lower half of the plant has curled leaves and they dont look that great. the plant is still growing tall pretty quickly but the new small sideshoots arent really going anywhere. maybe as the plant approaches the water surface and gets closer to the light it will do better? its about half way there right now. i think that i might need to up my dosing...ive been going pretty lean up to this point. co2 should not be a limiting factor as it is misting pretty good and im running 4-5 bps...the drop checker is a nice lime green.


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## niko

If that stem plant is having trouble with the lower leaves maybe you need more fertilizer of some kind (not necessarily all of them!) or the light is not enough.

If you decide to up the fertilizer I'd say start with Fe/Trace first. But don't double the current dosing of Fe/Traces or something. Increase it maybe 20% and see if that changes something. The idea is to not mess things up while trying to cater to some primadonna plant.

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

niko said:


> The idea is to not mess things up while trying to cater to some primadonna plant.
> 
> --Nikolay




true.


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## stuckintexas

I officially learned how to grow algae finally.
its there but not really bad.

i believe i have GSA, Staghorn, and Fuzz algae.

After reading up on these on guitarfish.org i see that all of these are caused by nutrient imbalances and in the GSA case from lack of phosphate. Hopefully this stuff will disappear with a proper EI dosing routine.

none of it really bothers me except the staghorn, its just ugly and clings to my moss...hopefully things dont get worse.


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## stuckintexas

I lossed an oto today. It was flipping around in the current with a few kicks here and there. I netted it and pulled it to the surface but still keeping it in the water so it could swim in the net and I then touched it a few times with no response. It did not look like it was going to make it so I pulled it from the tank. All other fish and shrimp seem fine. Anyone know what could cause this?


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## niko

That's how otos are. Weird little fish. You can have one forever and one sunny day it decides it had enough. For no apparent reason they just die.

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

supersmirky said:


> Have you seen the pearling yet?


yea, the rotala rotundifolia pearls daily.


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## stuckintexas

just built the new light fixture. the paint is drying and tomorrow night i will move the bulbs over to this new one. hopefully i see improved results in light coverage and plant growth.

the new fixture is 9 inches wide. it will only have two reflectors, two bulbs but this way i can space them apart more. this wider housing can also accommodate a third bulb and reflector should i choose to go that way in the future.


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## supersmirky

Oh...didn't know you were changing light. Did you just have a standard top or something and wanted a custom one so you could seperate and space the lights a little more?


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## stuckintexas

the light i have been using is custom. niko gave me the idea on how to build it. at the time i had never grown plants and i didnt think about how tall they would get, how that would effect the light penetration and coverage...i was more worried about the fixture hanging off the top of the tank. that is why i tried to make the fixture to not hang off the tank and then fit whatever bulbs i could inside those dimensions. the result was a nice looking very small fixture that holds 2x24W T5HO and only one bulb has a reflector and the otehr bulb is crammed next to it.

i hope it was worth my time and money put into changing the fixture config. what i do not know is how much impact adding a reflector has on the ammount of light into the tank. I assume it is significant. Also, I think that spreading the bulbs out from the dead center of the tank will help in growth of all the plants as a whole...also anticipating less shaded areas.


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## stuckintexas

little pic update here. this is the first day with the "new" light on.

its time for a trim, also need to space out the rotundifolia and vietnam a bit with a good thinning of the vietnam will need to be done. the aromatica is turning nice colors as it gets close to the light. the new belem is on top of the glosso right now, but not for long. it is just there while i try to figure out where to put it.


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## CrownMan

Tank is looking great. The belem looks very healthy and the new light ought to help keep it that way.


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## supersmirky

That looks great! Could you do a close up of the belem? Everything looks very healthy!


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## JAXON777

Stuck I gotta ask, Why is your drop checker so deep in the tank? I thought it was only supposed to be around 3 or 4 inches below the surface? BTW tank is looking good.


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## stuckintexas

i am moving the drop checker around the tank to see if there is a difference in the co2 at that point vs the top of the tank. so far the color is more green at the bottom and more yellow at the top.

i would do a close up on the belem if i had a proper camera. there are nice belem pics on the web though.


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## stuckintexas

comparison:

day 3:









1 month:









2.5 months:


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## Tex Gal

Sure looks like you're doing something right!  I think you may have to get another tank. ;D (Did I say that?!)


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## stuckintexas

Yep, you are right about adding a tank.

I hope to do that within about 2 months. I think I am going to try and limit the number of species in this tank. right now there are just too many. the problem is i like all of them, tough decision.


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## stuckintexas

Hey. I have been away for a little while. Had to finish up some school projects and just graduated this Saturday. Just got a new camera today and it looks like it will take quite a while to master it. Here are a few noob photos with it...no macro lens yet.


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## niko

Dave,

Since this is a very long thread could you briefly summarize (bullets or something) what equipment you have and how did you bring this tank to what we see now.

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

Sure. Thanks for the interest.

Tank: 45G Hex

Lighting: 2x24W Giesemann Middays (7.5hrs/day)

CO2: Pressurized. Diffused by Niko's small internal filter Mod. CO2 is only on when lights are on.

Substrate: ADA Aquasoil Amazonia I

Filtration: Rena XP2

Ferts: EI method with 50% WC each week. I dose k2hpo4, k2so4, kno3, csm+b. 1/2 capful Seachem Flourish Iron daily. 1/2 tsp epsom salt and 1/2 tsp calcium chloride once a week immediately after WC.

Any comments are always welcome. Also, I am trying to learn DSLR photography and if anyone knows any good stuff for me to read on the net on this subject please throw me a link.

Thanks.


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## supersmirky

Congrats on graduating! Pics look really good to me! But I must have an untrained eye. lol.

Looks like your plants are really taking off and they are healthy. No algae either. I'm impressed


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## Tex Gal

I"m surprised you are dosing Espom salt and calcium chloride. Arlington water was pretty hard when I lived over there. Why did you decide to do that.


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## stuckintexas

Smirky,
Thanks! Actually i need to link the Picassa Album for the tank images, they are much clearer. Photobucket kinda sucks. Hopefully I will be taking even better pictures very soon and I will share them. Oh and I do have algae! I have green dust on my tank glass...no biggie.

Texgal,
I do it because it works.

I guess I could do an experiment and stop it for a month or two and try to note the differences but I probably wont do that. What I am doing now works for me.

I got the idea from Crownman's suggestions. I beleive he told me that the calcium was a bit on the low side and that magnesium was almost non-existent.


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## chuck griffin

very nice great pictures!!


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## stuckintexas

Thanks. I gotta stop using photobucket...picasa seems to show up much nicer.


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## starrystarstarr

i wouldnt change anything in that tank its pretty.


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## supersmirky

I never thought about using picasa instead of photobucket. Do you just upload online like photobucket??


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## Dan S

Nicely done! Talk about unique challenges!


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## stuckintexas

Dan, I do know that I will never buy a hex tank again...just doesn't look as nice as a rectangular tank.

Smirky, I gotta ask niko about this, you should too. He has used Picasa for sometime.


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## stuckintexas

http://picasaweb.google.com/davidphillips33/005#

Please ignore the GSA.


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## supersmirky

Looks great!

What's the plant to the right in pic #24?

I like the picasa slides as they move much faster imo than photobucket.


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## stuckintexas

not sure which plant is to the right but up front is Lindernia India and behind that is Blyxa Japonica.


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## stuckintexas

http://picasaweb.google.com/davidphillips33


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## kris

what would be cool is if we could tag the plants on something like this the way you can tag people on facebook.
that tank is a beaut. 
i love the images as well.
thanks for sharing!
kris


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## supersmirky

Good one Kris....Wonder if that is possible


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## Tex Gal

Very nicely done. When you look at the beginning pxs to the end there is quite a contrast! You've done a great job!


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## stuckintexas

Thank you for the comments. I am just battling this green spot algae. its pretty hard, not the soft dust. it is only on my glass, my plants seem to be free of any algae and my water is very clear. I think I add enough phosphate in the form of KH2PO4...anyone know what else could be causing this?

also, i am quite shocked that i cannot get the downoi to grow very well. all it wants to do is grow up and not fill in any new leaves. ends up looking like a tall palm tree kinda.

Also, I am planning on ripping out all of the rotala vietnam and ludwigia cuba. i want the background of the tank to be full of limnophila aromatica and rotala rotundifolia only, about an even half and half of the background. so hopefully soon I will take care of this and get some new pics up.


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## Tex Gal

What's going on with your tank? Haven't heard from you in ages!


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## WhiteDevil

stuckintexas said:


> Hey. I have been away for a little while. Had to finish up some school projects and just graduated this Saturday. Just got a new camera today and it looks like it will take quite a while to master it. Here are a few noob photos with it...no macro lens yet.


64634651616

what are those plants, the red tops that shot up in that first month?

the first pic, what are those and can those be planted to form a bank for a creek bed? Im trying to keep my rock creek from being buried in the sand that the cories and the kuhlis kick up when they are being cories and kuhli's.

Are there any flowering plants that are fully submersed?


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## northtexasfossilguy

stuckintexas said:


> so if i store the co2 tank under my fish tank and lets say that the safety release blew and all the gas came out in a super cold state and it froze everything within 2 feet. would it freeze my tank bottom and make the glass crack, dumping everything on the floor? im just trying to think of a good location for it.


Just hook up the regulator first, and maybe do it outside. I keep my tank next to the fish tank. If your needle reads anything over 1500psi you are definitely overfilled. Typical is 1000psi. But then again I use a 20 lb tank.

By the way you can get tanks off craigslist, mine was $60 for the 20 lb. It was from a soda machine.


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