# DIY Aquatic Plant Home Nursery



## pepetj

Time is coming for this project I've been working hard (planning stage wise) for the last few months.

I'm setting up an aquatic plant home nursery in which several DIY projects combine. I'm attempting to grow aquatic plants all submerged (I may try emersed growth of some species though).

This project involves several parts distributed in two adjacent areas (no doors dividing those areas):

1) Laboratory, RO system & storage goes in one small room
2) Aquatic Plant Home Nursery & Fish Room in a mid sized room










Since the Nursery & Fish Room has tanks on three levels of height, I draw these sketches showing one level at a time (top view)

Level 3









Level 2









Level 1









The architect is looking for structural steel stands that are available at some hardware store.
I estimated the load of each shelf and added a few more pounds to be safe; these are the number I came up with, please review the numbers for me.

Sketch of Three Level Multi Tank Stand w load estimates:
Stand on East Wall









Stand on West Wall









Kind of ambitious project but I guess I won't be moving again in my life. The room to move around between the stands is kind of narrow and that is something the Architect and I are working around.

All HOB equipment will be placed in the frontal glass, after all this is not display tanks.

Waiting for your feedback.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## pepetj

RO system.

How to set up my RO system? I have zero experience with RO.

I was thinking of using gravity to feed as much tanks as possible, placing a 145gal six footer as high as I can that will function as my main RO water reservoir.

I have two water pipelines (I figure one hot the other one cold) running from the floor to the ceiling in the small room. I was thinking of placing two saddled valves in there, using whatever is needed to remove chlorine/chloramines from the water and then feeding the RO unit(s).

Then feed the main RO reservoir and from there feed the tanks. I need to figure out if the height of the upper shelves in the Nursery/Fish Room will allow me to use gravity or not. If not then I will focus on the two other shelves where I should have enough height distance to go this way.

I will like to have flexibility (even redundancy) as to set this as continuous or not.

Any ideas? If you have useful links regarding this subject please post them here.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## doubleott05

so this is why you bought up all the plants in america LOL 

thanks
Elliot


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## niko

Structural steel or not I promise you that your shelves may hold the weight but they will certainly bow if there is no vertical support beam at least in the middle of every shelf and reaching the floor. Unless you severely overbuild the shelves which I doubt.

How you are going to drain those tanks for a water change? Best thing is to make overflows - drilling the tanks is best. If you rely on dumping water and filling up you are setting yourself up for A LOT of work. You will see yourself slacking off at some point.

How are you going to maintain the temperature? Maybe where you live the temp. is perfect. In any case you are looking at A LOT of evaporation in a room. A single dehumidifier will keep the temp. at 85 (water at 75) AND dehumidify the room. You will see about 4 gallons of water being condensed every 12 hours by the dehumidifier.

Lights? Trust me - you need as much light as you can fit/afford. And no heat. T5HO is the best bet.

Why RO? Do you have to use it? Yes or no it is best to mix it with some tap water (unless your tap water is horriblyt dirty of course). If you have to reconstitute pure RO by adding different salts I suggest you abandon the whole indeavor. It will not only be expensive but also playing home chemist, especially with RO is a dead end game. It does not work.

If your tap water is clean enough you must get a big activated carbon filter. Just a dechlorinatior does not do the job. Tap water contains a long list of things that need to be removed from it before it is best for aquariums. Activated Carbon is the best approach. Add a little dechlorinator too, just in case. And once again - mix the RO with the tap water ran through Activated Carbon + some dechlorinator.

With all this expense and effort I would not like to hear that you will not be using AquaSoil. What substrate do you plan on using? Most aquatic plants can be grown emersed. There are less issues emersed. If you are going submersed it makes sense to give the plants the best substrate, which is AquaSoil.
http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319023

I hope you have a good grip on filtration and what is best. A room full of aquariums with algae problems will be a nightmare. I'd suggest Poret filters, but ask me more if you want.

I don't know if you are doing this for your own amusement or to sell plants. If it is to sell plants you need to concentrate on stupid but popular species (HC, which does much better emersed), new species (must grow them super fast before they lose value - look at Hygro pinnatifida), and rare species (Eriocaulons, emersed if you can do it). All of this spells "lots of light" and "excellent conditions". Cutting corners will be very counterproductive.

I personally would do a mixed setup - hydroponics for the emersed and shallow brightly lit tanks for the true aquatics. I've done hydroponics before to grow tons of HC and trust me - the maintenance is virtually zero. Submersed takes much more, even if everything always goes well.

--Nikolay


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## pepetj

doubleott05 said:


> so this is why you bought up all the plants in america LOL
> 
> thanks
> Elliot


You got it! And my wife is going back in June so I'm getting some more.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo

Thank you Niko. Helpful input, now let's see If I got it right.

I placed my comments/answers to your observations/questions in blaks within your text. Correct me if I misread something (English is my second language, keep that in mind).



niko said:


> Structural steel or not I promise you that your shelves may hold the weight but they will certainly bow if there is no vertical support beam at least in the middle of every shelf and reaching the floor. Unless you severely overbuild the shelves which I doubt.
> 
> *I have a structural engineer working on it. We are considering our options... Either working from hardware store steel shelving (reinforced) or built from scratch, I will go for safety first and foremost. I don't mind having vertical support beams all the way to the floor every two or three feet if needed. There are not display tanks. May be hard to replace a tank once in position but... I want this to last a lifetime.*
> 
> How you are going to drain those tanks for a water change? Best thing is to make overflows - drilling the tanks is best. If you rely on dumping water and filling up you are setting yourself up for A LOT of work. You will see yourself slacking off at some point.
> 
> *I still need to decide on it. I will have a waste water line in both rooms (I don't recall the word in English but I mean a 6" hole at floor level where the waste water goes down) . Continuous water change system or not, I can't drill some tank's bottom glass (tempered) but may go for frontal/rear/side glass drill (I have new bits but no bulkheads!). I trust a glass technician (a woman) to drill tanks (she's truly careful and have good hands). Only the six and four footers come with factory overflow (Marineland), yet those are still in the US*
> 
> How are you going to maintain the temperature? Maybe where you live the temp. is perfect. In any case you are looking at A LOT of evaporation in a room. A single dehumidifier will keep the temp. at 85 (water at 75) AND dehumidify the room. You will see about 4 gallons of water being condensed every 12 hours by the dehumidifier.
> 
> *Temperature for tropical settings isn't a problem since I live in the Caribbean basin. I will use heaters in my grow-out Discus tanks. I didn't consider the humidity factor so thank you for pointing that out. I will have good ventilation through air extractors.*
> 
> Lights? Trust me - you need as much light as you can fit/afford. And no heat. T5HO is the best bet.
> 
> *I'm going with T5HO and T5NO for sure. I'll use T5HO ballasts but place NO lamps where needed if the PPF is higher than what I want with HO lamps. That's a reason I'm after a 26"W in the large shelve since I could place some lamps across instead of running through the length of the shelves -bright light only plants in the 20gal tanks?*
> 
> Why RO? Do you have to use it? Yes or no it is best to mix it with some tap water (unless your tap water is horriblyt dirty of course). If you have to reconstitute pure RO by adding different salts I suggest you abandon the whole indeavor. It will not only be expensive but also playing home chemist, especially with RO is a dead end game. It does not work.
> 
> If your tap water is clean enough you must get a big activated carbon filter. Just a dechlorinatior does not do the job. Tap water contains a long list of things that need to be removed from it before it is best for aquariums. Activated Carbon is the best approach. Add a little dechlorinator too, just in case. And once again - mix the RO with the tap water ran through Activated Carbon + some dechlorinator.
> 
> *I need RO at least for the Discus (my wife "keeps" 18, I keep 12). I have to use RO in all my tanks where I am now since our source water is terrible -contaminant (including E choli when the City "forgets" to dose chlorine as needed and now we have a high risk of V cholera, I'm not kidding) and fluctuates in its GH/KH values without notice (they use both City water and well water in the building I'm now). Why do you think I'm setting a lab? I do use reconstituted water and yes I do a lot of measurements (TDS, GH, KH) but to tell you the truth I enjoy doing maintenance and all that. Honestly. What do you mean RO doesn't work? I have had a major increase in overall tank health since I turned to reconstituted RO (I've been purchasing 20+x 5gals weekly of RO processed drinking water, sterilized with O3 before being bottled for more than a year; Seachem Equilibrium and sodium bicarbonate OR Kent RO right work quite well). That said it may be that the water source of the sector I'm moving has better quality than the one I have now. I will have to check on this and I might get lucky*
> 
> With all this expense and effort I would not like to hear that you will not be using AquaSoil. What substrate do you plan on using? Most aquatic plants can be grown emersed. There are less issues emersed. If you are going submersed it makes sense to give the plants the best substrate, which is AquaSoil.
> 
> *Lately I'm using "Tierra Negra" collected from a "natural mine" in a somewhat virgin area North of Santo Domingo City. I have to let it dry for couple of weeks before using it. My plants are thriving in it but yes I probably will get my feet wet with AquaSoil. Thanks for the suggestion. I need to visit a couple of local Universities libraries looking for soil analysis of "Tierra Negra" from the area I'm getting it.*
> 
> http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319023
> 
> I hope you have a good grip on filtration and what is best. A room full of aquariums with algae problems will be a nightmare. I'd suggest Poret filters, but ask me more if you want.
> 
> *I haven't decided on filtration but one thing: I want all tanks to have their own separate filtration system. I may go with automatized (continuous or not, more likely combined) water change system but keeping water columns separated. I think that's possible to do yet I'm still figuring things out. Poret filters... I was looking into them (strong biological filtration!) can those be DIY or purchasing commercial units make sense?*
> 
> I don't know if you are doing this for your own amusement or to sell plants. If it is to sell plants you need to concentrate on stupid but popular species (HC, which does much better emersed), new species (must grow them super fast before they lose value - look at Hygro pinnatifida), and rare species (Eriocaulons, emersed if you can do it). All of this spells "lots of light" and "excellent conditions". Cutting corners will be very counterproductive.
> 
> *Amusement comes first. I might sell plants (there's a good market here) but I won't compromise my enjoyment of planted tank/fish keeping. I make a good living out my professional practice yet I do have time available for this. I'm considering setting tanks until mature/stable with at least decent aquascape for other people but not that I'm planning on making this feel like "work". I don't want to cut corners, I want to bring my know how to the highest level I can keeping the enjoyment of it. All this is for my personal well being and for the most part I'm fortunate that I can afford it.*
> 
> I personally would do a mixed setup - hydroponics for the emersed and shallow brightly lit tanks for the true aquatics. I've done hydroponics before to grow tons of HC and trust me - the maintenance is virtually zero. Submersed takes much more, even if everything always goes well.
> 
> *That's what I picture happening also. I like growing submersed specimens even if they take longer (e.g. HC, even Alternanthera sp) for some reason that may not be cost/effective I love seeing plants submersed rather than emersed but I'm open even to go into "sterilized cultures".*
> 
> --Nikolay


This is long ride. I plan to enjoy every single step. We shall start setting this up by June 18th. I don't have to move my tanks from the place I'm in right away. I can take as much as two months to move them all.

What do you suggest I focus on first?

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## pepetj

Good detailed info with pics in the Poret Fishroom page. I guess this is a cost-effective way to go filtration wise.

http://www.swisstropicals.com/Swisstropicals Fishroom.html

I forgot to mention that the RO unit will have secondary storage barrels for eight display tanks ranging from 42gal (Osaka 155) to a custom built 300+gal Palladarium.

How can I estimate a GPD target? I figure the real GPD of commercial units ends up being lower than its nominal value when operational variables (e.g. temperature, pressure to name two) are considered.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## niko

Yes, Swisstropicals is a good way to buy the Poret filters. Buy it in sheets and cut it up with a kitchen knife. Since you are not going to keep thousands of fish in your tanks one small Poret filter (a 3" cube) is more than enough.

Definitely separated tanks. Do not try to have a common sump for many tanks. This is a very bad idea - diseases, algae, etc.

In the next few days I'll take a picture of how my tanks are drilled. This design has proven completely trouble free over 2 years now. And it is VERY cheap to make. You don't need bulkheads. During water change you just fill the tank, no draining.

Note something on this picture:
http://www.swisstropicals.com/Web pictures 600 dpi/Fishroom/Valve.JPG

That is the line through which the water from the tank drains. Note that the clear hose is smaller diameter than the white drain line. That is important because if there was no air gap between the clear hose and the white pipe there will be vacuum created and the drainage will slow down. Also for added protection you make a standpipe that also sucks air during drainage. Simply put - make sure your drain lines enter an OPEN AIR main drain line.

Reconstituting RO is fine except that your system becomes very unstable. Tap water adds chemicals to your aquarium water that somehow make it more stable. It is not about buffers. I do not know what these chemicals are. But just mixing RO + a few chemicals results in a very unstable system. It can work fine for years and than one day crash for no reason. Remember that.

This Tierra Negra is probably great. But AquaSoil helps you from Day 1. That's the only big advantage of it. With the Tierra you will have to make sure things stabilize for at least 4-6 weeks if not more. After that uprooting plants may cause a problem.

Best thing is to have a water change system that is fully automated. If you have to do many things to change water then you are setting yourself up for trouble.

Rust: Make sure this steel you are using is painted or protected against rust. Also anywhere you have moving water there will be minute water splashes. Over time you will see salt deposits on the tank edges, lights etc. Make sure you avoid such small splashes so you don't have to clean them eventually.

From experience I can tell you that if you make your aquarium room looking beautiful you will tend to take better care of it. No clutter, no ugly dirty glass, etc.

I believe I don't have to tell you - use protected electrical outlets.

With plants I guess you will have to use CO2 and it will be a nightmare to have one bottle and many hoses coming out of it. That desing is very hard to adjust precisely. If you plan on having CO2 plan on having 1 bottle per 2 tanks, not more.

For T5NO or T5HO I use Fulham Workhorse ballasts. You can hook up any fluorescent bulb to these ballasts. The 228 watt model is only $30 and can power up any number of fluorescent bulbs that add up to 228 watts. In an aquarium room you need to make sure that end caps are waterproof. I use cheap non-waterproof end caps and they work but that's a stupid way to cut corners.

--Nikolay


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## pepetj

Niko I have no idea how to drill a tank and not use bulkheads for water changes... waiting on details of how you did that.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## niko

This is how it looks inside the tank:









This is a picture how it looks outside of the tank:









This is with the tank missing:









This is partly disasembled:









Even more disassembled:









Close-up of the parts. The black things are rubber 0-rings (gaskets, washers). There are 2 - one is outside of the tank and one is inside. DO NOT screw the white fittings too hard together.









You need to drill the side of the tank with a diamond bit like this one:
http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/b/0/0/3d/9/AAAAC6TXoVQAAAAAAD2T5A.jpg

The diameter of the drill is slightly larger than the diameter of the male threads on the white PVC fitting. The drilling needs to be done with very low speed drill. No pressing on the drill, let the diamonds do the work. One hole takes about 2-4 minutes to drill - it must be slow. The entire time you are cooling with water using a small pool of water - take silly puty and make a little circle around the hole. Fill the circle with water before you start drilling. The white stuff here is the material you use to create the little pool for the water:
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/o5IRHrrzfFs/0.jpg

--Nikolay


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## pepetj

So the idea is to flood the tank so the water in it is displaced by incoming water right?

Nice and easy solution.

Thank you, I understand how to do this now. I will contract the glass technician to do the drillings though.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## niko

Yes the idea is to fill the tank with new water and the overflow pipe starts to drain it at the same time. No need to dump water first. Just fill.

I like to fill on the opposite side of the overflow.

It's a good idea to have some kind of net or a mesh over the overflow pipe. So debries/fish do not get in the pipes.

Depending on the size of the pipe you can run the new water faster or slower.

No need to glue anything. Just fit it together.

The height of the pipe determines your water level. It is best to be maximum so you don't have to clean salt deposits. But for safety purpose I made them about 1.5 cm. shorter than the top of the tank.

Here's something important: The drain pipe needs to have an opening down AND up. One is the actual drain. The other one is a vertical pipe that extends above the highest tank. That pipe is not capped. It serves to suck air. That way your pipe system is not "clogged" with air pockets.

--Nikolay


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## niko

Here's a picture of how the overflow pipes need to fit in the drain pipe.

Also the picture shows the standpipe that sucks air and does not let air pockets block the flow in the drain pipe.










--Nikolay


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## pepetj

Now that I think of it, this set up allows for slow continuous water change (e.g. using drip technique for incoming water).

This should be easy to install against the rear wall. I doubt this would require maintenance if kept reasonably free form clogging.

I'll built a "prototype" in a 5gal to estimate measures since I have serious space restrictions.

Thank you!

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## niko

Of course the overflows allow for a continuous water change.

But you will find that the valves that let the water drip at a certain rate are pretty expensive. Even if you can afford them they will always have to be maintained clean. Salt deposits change the flow of these valves.

Also you have to add additional plumbing for the drip system. The whole thing starts to get not only complicated but ugly too. 

So make sure you know what you are getting into and have common sense about it. It certainly can be done in a way that really makes everything run by itself.

--Nikolay


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## TAB

I would highly recomend having 2 over flows per tank. that way *WHEN* one gets cloged you don't have a flood.


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## pepetj

Niko: what would need less maintanence? A Hamburg Matten Filter (be it corner placed or taking a few inches of tank length (in my case would be depth since they will be placed with sides facing front/rear) or the simpler drop in cube sponge filter with corresponding Jet-lifter?

Also which number of pores per inches Poret foam makes sense (less-space wise) for several sized tanks and what's the logic behind this?

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## niko

Poret needs no maintenance.

All other sponge filters on the market use bad sponges or have a bad air supply design. They all require rinsing and unclogging the air line at least once a month. That may sound fine to you but it is not. These filters gradually lose efficiency in the course of the month.

If you think that you will find a better filter than Poret you are mistaken. The swiss guy from swisstropicals.com knows what he is doing. Don't settle for anything less.

A cube of Poret filter measuring 6" per side is good for a 30 gallon tank. But make sure you have good flow through the filter. Finding the right flow is a matter of adjustment and you need a pump that can supply a lot of air because you have many tanks. Get a piston air pump - it is completely quiet and supplies a ton of air. You can get such a pump for about $200 here. It keeps 50 tanks bubbling strong with air without a problem. If you want I have a used one for sale - PM me if you want. It's this one:
http://jehmco.com/html/lph45.html

I keep 11 Synodontis petricola, each measuring about 15 cm. in a 200 liter tank with only 2 of the 6" cube Poret filters. I feed these fish about 50 grams of hamburger meat every day. So you see how effective these filters are (despite the catfish being hardy or not).

--Nikolay


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## pepetj

Niko: PM sent for the piston airpump.


Just sent an email to swisstropical with my tanks listed so they can help me out choosing what I need for DIY.

Had a tough work-wise week, I had to let the "prototype" drilling for this coming week.

As for drilling two holes... I'm afraid it may weaken the glass too much (at least in a 12"x16" panel of 20galH). I think I will use your idea in the larger tanks, so thank you for the observation TAB.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## pepetj

I went to see the place.

I took this pic of the area where the nursery/fish room will be.

I used green colored masking tape to see surface area the tank stands will take.

Too narrow space to walk/work around the tanks. Make me think of going with only one raw of tanks or reduce the 24" width to 18" in the rack against the concrete wall while going 13" in the smaller multilevel rack.










The small concrete wall will be removed in a few days. It doesn't hold any weight (not a structural wall).

This is what I think I will end doing:
Level 3









Level 2









Level 1









Note: I may change the two 40E for 60gal tanks if I can get them. All tanks are coded as per Marineland catalog.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## pepetj

Justindew said:


> Wow do you think you will ever actually mke your money back on all of this?


I'm not looking to make money out of this. This is a hobby thing. I make a good living out of my private practice as Clinical Psychologist.

I may make some money selling plants/fish locally but the main target here is to enjoy the ride. It's like making a dream happen.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## Justindew

pepetj said:


> I'm not looking to make money out of this. This is a hobby thing. I make a good living out of my private practice as Clinical Psychologist.
> 
> I may make some money selling plants/fish locally but the main target here is to enjoy the ride. It's like making a dream happen.
> 
> Pepetj
> Santo Domingo


I hear you definitely will be impressive when all setup! Looks like you know what your doing.

PS: Any idea why my post was deleted?


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## niko

Actually you can both have fun and make money off a setup like that. The fun part will be the main thing anyway. I'm talking about breeding rare fish - like the different kinds of Kribs, or Apistos that you can get from the Czech republic.

These are easy to breed and do not even need separate tanks for the fry:

Different kinds of Kribensis:

















































Apistogramma:

















Or the different kinds of Pseudomugil. They are small and always in demand:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...=288531l296953l0l28l21l5l4l4l0l296l2593l1.2.8

All of these fish are good for a planted tank too. So your setups could look very nice.

--Nikolay


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## joshp428

very nice, I definitely lack the plumbing experience though, lol


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## pepetj

Justindew said:


> I hear you definitely will be impressive when all setup! Looks like you know what your doing.
> 
> PS: Any idea why my post was deleted?


I have no idea why or how it was deleted. Maybe I deleted it by error when quoting you? I don't know how to do that on purpose if that was the case.

Airpump and a multiple needle valve assembly arrived today yet due to a delay in Customs I will have to wait until 8AM tomorrow to pick them up.

I went by the apartment and the entrance doors are not yet in place, neither is City electric power connected... looks like yet another two weeks delay is coming.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## f1ea

Ah so this is your super plan!! I didnt recognize the username, but after reading the thread now I know hehe. Very interesting...

I have a couple of suggestions:

1. do leave as much room as you can between the racks... you mentioned possibly eliminating one of the shelves, or lowering the height. I think its a good idea; the last thing you will enjoy is having no room to work once everything is set in place. Water weights like 8.25 lbs per US gallon so this will be mighty heavy. from what i see in your drawings... it looks too tight. If you will have some fish, there will be little room to see them..... if you are going to be handling stuff (ie buckets, trimming, whatever...) its not going to be very comfortable.

2. Instead, you could use the tanks intended for the 2nd shelf, for a hydroponic set up in your yard/patio... wherever you can use some good sun. The reasons are: the electric bill will be massive, and many plants, such as HC, Glosso, Crypts, Anubias, Ludwigias, Hydrocotyle, Aponogeton etc...... can be grown this way. Another benefit, is for a hydroponic set-up you can use regular easy to find/dose ferts. Most of these contain some ammonia/urea, but since there's no livestock... no problem. Just dose accordingly. You can even run a pump on a timer for the irrigation. Use peat moss and coconut fiber to ground your roots. You'll have HC and Hydrocotyles to carpet a baseball field. Keep the indoor water tanks for obligate aquatics, such as Rotala Macrandra, H. Zosterifolia etc
No problem with algae, no problem with water changes, lower electric bill........

3. If you're going to use some sort of auto/semi-auto water change system... i think it would be better to dril the back glass. (Many reef tanks have a drilled bottom), but you can drill near the top (say 4" from the upper lip), that way no matter what fails, you will not drain your whole tank(s). Use a larger diameter out-flow than intake; you can use for example 1" outflow pipes vs. 1/2" inflows... that way all you have to control is the inflow so that it does not exceed the outflow capacity. As long as there is a bit more capacity for outflow, your tank(s) will not overflow. You dont even have to use a continuous water change system... could be that you manually open the valves say for 3-4 hrs a day and that could be good enough.

Maybe there's some better ideas... i'll be in santo Domingo this weekend; i'll contact you, it'll be interesting to see the scheme and lets see what we can do. My father has a lot of experience with hydroponics so he can help you out with this. He also develops ferts and so on, so he could help in seeing what would be the best ferts to use. Also, he's now back heading an agronomics lab, they do tissue culture and all kinds of tests........

Another thing you can do, is keep giving some of your plants to cool hobbyists (like me) and we grow them out for you he he 

Cheers


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## pepetj

My comments to your suggestions appear in blue, embedded in your quoted text.

Thank you

Pepetj
Santo Domingo



f1ea said:


> Ah so this is your super plan!! I didnt recognize the username, but after reading the thread now I know hehe. Very interesting...
> Actually this is part of my super plan. I have another aquatic plant nursery project in a nice alley at my office...
> 
> I have a couple of suggestions:
> 
> 1. do leave as much room as you can between the racks... you mentioned possibly eliminating one of the shelves, or lowering the height. I think its a good idea; the last thing you will enjoy is having no room to work once everything is set in place. Water weights like 8.25 lbs per US gallon so this will be mighty heavy. from what i see in your drawings... it looks too tight. If you will have some fish, there will be little room to see them..... if you are going to be handling stuff (ie buckets, trimming, whatever...) its not going to be very comfortable.
> 
> I downsized the width of both racks from 26" to 19" (longer rack) and from 19" to 13" (shorter rack). If I keep fish in there will be for breeding/growth only not display. Load weight and distribution as well as rack structural design is in the hands of a structural engineer for safety reasons
> 
> 2. Instead, you could use the tanks intended for the 2nd shelf, for a hydroponic set up in your yard/patio... wherever you can use some good sun. The reasons are: the electric bill will be massive, and many plants, such as HC, Glosso, Crypts, Anubias, Ludwigias, Hydrocotyle, Aponogeton etc...... can be grown this way. Another benefit, is for a hydroponic set-up you can use regular easy to find/dose ferts. Most of these contain some ammonia/urea, but since there's no livestock... no problem. Just dose accordingly. You can even run a pump on a timer for the irrigation. Use peat moss and coconut fiber to ground your roots. You'll have HC and Hydrocotyles to carpet a baseball field. Keep the indoor water tanks for obligate aquatics, such as Rotala Macrandra, H. Zosterifolia etc
> No problem with algae, no problem with water changes, lower electric bill........
> 
> This project is in a 9th floor apartment of a 14 story building = no patio. Energy bill is not a major concern for me since I'm not cutting corners if the final outcome (enjoyment with quality planted tanks & fishkeeping) is compromised. I will run Poret filtration system powered by a single piston airpump and use low flow powerheads for internal water current. All lights will be T5HO or T5NO, adjusted as needed as per PPF (PAR) readings so I get as much as needed (not more not less). Add a fertilizer peristaltic pump for dosing micros and micros (still need to figure out how to do this), the energy used by solenoids and the RO system energy use... As far as using terrestrial fertilizers in aquatic plants I won't go that way if that implies using too high concentrations of Ammonia-Nitrogen; I have zero tolerance for Urea. NH4+ is toxic to most aquatic macrophytes at concentrations higher than 1.8ppm. I may go the hydroponic route for some species but that's indoors; in fact I am considering sterilized culture tissue as well to propagate some delicate plant species. I'm setting a home lab as well.
> 
> 3. If you're going to use some sort of auto/semi-auto water change system... i think it would be better to dril the back glass. (Many reef tanks have a drilled bottom), but you can drill near the top (say 4" from the upper lip), that way no matter what fails, you will not drain your whole tank(s). Use a larger diameter out-flow than intake; you can use for example 1" outflow pipes vs. 1/2" inflows... that way all you have to control is the inflow so that it does not exceed the outflow capacity. As long as there is a bit more capacity for outflow, your tank(s) will not overflow. You dont even have to use a continuous water change system... could be that you manually open the valves say for 3-4 hrs a day and that could be good enough.
> That idea is exactly what Niko proposed (see pics in post #9 of this thread) and the way I'm going. Only for specific tanks I may use continuos water change if needed (e.g. fry growth). Each tank filtration system is separate from the rest. Cross contamination is unlikely unless I deal with airborne pathogens (e.g. Discus Flu).
> 
> Maybe there's some better ideas... i'll be in santo Domingo this weekend; i'll contact you, it'll be interesting to see the scheme and lets see what we can do. My father has a lot of experience with hydroponics so he can help you out with this. He also develops ferts and so on, so he could help in seeing what would be the best ferts to use. Also, he's now back heading an agronomics lab, they do tissue culture and all kinds of tests........
> Meeting your father will be an honor for me. I would love to learn from him. I'm sold with the EI method for now (took me a while to find a method that works and stick with it).
> 
> Another thing you can do, is keep giving some of your plants to cool hobbyists (like me) and we grow them out for you he he
> 
> I'm already doing that. I promoted the idea of a local planted tank club; we held our first meeting last June 5th. Of course I will not sell plants at club meetings but I will sell some species locally to compensate costs a bit. I have spent a lot of money in this project and I still need to spend some more. Money is not the reason I do this.
> 
> Cheers
> Thank you for taking your time to help me out here.


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## f1ea

Oh, so its an apartment; even more impressive! i thought it was a house.

How are you planning to do EI if you're doing continuous water changes?

Personally, i dont like EI... its too time consuming, too wasteful... and unforgiving. I prefer good nutrient rich substrate, and at the most dose a proportion of EI 1x or 2x a week.

No need to go above 0.5 ppm of ammonia/urea...... if you're doing large daily water changes, there's no need to go that high, specially if you have a nutritious substrate. I think even 0.2ppm would suffice. Maybe even less. The thing is strict KNO3 is not the easiest compound to manage/buy in the large amounts you'll be needing.

I doubt you will be able to do tissue culture at home... you'd need a reverse flow chamber, they dont sell those at your corner's _Colmado_  But perhaps it could be done at my father's lab. Tissue culture would be interesting for slow growing, rhizome-type, expensive plants. For regular stem plants you're much better off just growing them out normally. EDIT: [spoke w/my dad about the tissue culture and they are no longer doing it at the lab, but they still have the equipment, so maybe we can still work something out]

Regards!


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## pepetj

f1ea said:


> Oh, so its an apartment; even more impressive! i thought it was a house.
> 
> How are you planning to do EI if you're doing continuous water changes?
> 
> Personally, i dont like EI... its too time consuming, too wasteful... and unforgiving. I prefer good nutrient rich substrate, and at the most dose a proportion of EI 1x or 2x a week.
> 
> No need to go above 0.5 ppm of ammonia/urea...... if you're doing large daily water changes, there's no need to go that high, specially if you have a nutritious substrate. I think even 0.2ppm would suffice. Maybe even less. The thing is strict KNO3 is not the easiest compound to manage/buy in the large amounts you'll be needing.
> 
> I doubt you will be able to do tissue culture at home... you'd need a reverse flow chamber, they dont sell those at your corner's _Colmado_  But perhaps it could be done at my father's lab. Tissue culture would be interesting for slow growing, rhizome-type, expensive plants. For regular stem plants you're much better off just growing them out normally. EDIT: [spoke w/my dad about the tissue culture and they are no longer doing it at the lab, but they still have the equipment, so maybe we can still work something out]
> 
> Regards!


I didn't say I was going to implement continuous water change in all tanks; I mentioned I would like to have a flexible system, even with redundancy where implementing continuos water change for all or part of the tanks were feasable if it makes sense. I propose a lot of things in my head that may end as not practical... some do work fine, others well they provide me with entertainment at least as I keep learning.

I noticed that the system proposed by Niko allowed that to happen. In any case I would consider continuous water change for breeding or fry-growing tanks only.

This project has two parts: one is the aquatic plant home nursery, the other is a fishroom.

EI with continuous water changes is not EI. I realize that. That would remove the "reset" effect of huge water changes that are usually performed once a week.

As far as sterilized culture (plants cloning) it can be done in a home lab. There are at least two enthusiast doing it. One of them has done successful reproduction of rare Cryptocoryne species. As with everything related to this hobby, I take things slowly, one day at a time. I think things over and over and when I figure them out I go for them. I have no problems delaying a project until I feel comfortable with my know how.

Take the peristaltic pump I have. It has two "channels" meaning I can fine tune two solutions into at least one tank. If I could figure out how to use one peristaltic pump to feed several different size tanks I may do it; I suspect that the more I will be able to do is to dose several tanks with similar water volume. If I end not using it for ferts then I may use it to feed a reef display tank, who knows where this hobby is leading me?

Thanks for your comments

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## niko

Pepetj,

This post explains how to mount the piston air pump and connect the hoses. What you see on the pictures has worked flawlessly for 2-1/2 years now.

It is important to know that this piston air pump increases its air output when it senses back pressure. Meaning that if you connect it to only 5 tanks it will use X amount of electicity + makes Y amount of air. If you connect it to 15 tanks it will use 3*X amount of electricity + makes 3*Y the amount of air.

Also you MUST know that the pump should not work against a lot of pressure. Meaning that you must never block the air flow. You always need to have at least one extra metal valve that has no air hose attached to it and it's partially or fully open letting air out. I don't know why that is. It has to do with the operation of the pump. If you "bleed" the extra air the pump makes it will last much longer. But please know that using only 1 metal valve to bleed the extra air results in a hissing sound. That's why I have several metal valves that are partially open - they bleed enough air + make no noise.

One other thing you MUST do is to clean the foam that filters the air going in the pump. On top of the pump there is a screw. Remove it and clean the sponge if there is any dust. You are supposed to do that once a month. It has to do with the sucking pressure which, if the sponge is clogged with dust, over time may damage the pump.

Here are the pictures:

The pump connected to the PVC pipes. None of the connections are glued. This pump works for 40 tanks (some of them with 2 air stones!). The air flow is huge - there will be quite a loud noise from the air bubbles if you open the air valves all the way.









The pump MUST be mounted above the tanks. That's for safety - water may siphon down to the pump if the pump is below the aquariums. The curved metal piece is just a metal tubing used to hold the PVC pipe. It doesn't need to be curved, I just reused a metal tubing that I took from a an aquarium with a suspended light.









Close-up of the pump with pipes going along 2 walls:









A close up of how the metal valves are screwed into the PVC pipe. You need a drill and a "tap" to do that. The "tap" just makes a thread inside the hole that you just drilled. I looked for the tap that matches the thread of the metal valves but could not find it. You need to find your own. The metal valves do not need to be screwed very tight. Use teflon tape for a more secure connection.









This is a "tap" or "tapping tool":









The end of each air tubing needs to have an additional (cheap) plastic valve. This is for fine adjustment of the air flow. The metal valves are for reliable regulation of the air flow, but it is hard to adjust them precisely. It could be done though.









--Nikolay


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## barclaya

thanks for sharing maybe in the future I need this advise .... very cool


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## pepetj

Thanks Nikolay for the detailed "pictorial". I'll get back to you if there's anything I need to figure out.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## pepetj

Last week I received a custom built 15 way post body assembly to inject CO2 in several tanks. It has two types of needle valves; the "big ones" are for use for the big tanks (40 to 125gal) while the "small ones" are for use with the smaller tanks (up to 30gal).










This was built and carefully tested by Bettatail, a dedicated and curious enthusiast of CO2 systems.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## niko

Hm, my experience with a 6 way CO2 manifold was a complete disaster. Every needle valve needs to be adjusted in relation to the others. It's a catch 22 - you set valve #1 just right, but while setting valve #2 you mess up #1. Once you get #1 and #2 right you adjust #3 but that means that #1 and #2 need to be adjusted again.

Also if the valves have hoses of different lengths that plays a role too. The whole thing was impossible to adjust. I did it but once I had to replace the CO2 bottle I gave up - it needed adjustment all over again.

I want to see yours work. It looks pretty.

--Nikolay


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## pepetj

When I used single stage regulators I used to have that same problem when manifolds were used. I upgraded to dual stage in all my cylinders.

The dual stage regulator that I will use here has a second stage working pressure of up to 100psi. I intend to work around 30psi if I use the new atomic diffusers. This post body is going to a 50lbs cylinder.

I will likely spend a lot of time tweeking but once all adjustments are in place I probably will run almost maintenance free (except for cleaning diffusers).

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## pepetj

*Dehumidifier options*

I found a refurbished LG 45 pint (a bit over 5 gallons) per day that can be set to continuous draining through a hose. It's being sold on ebay for 133usd with free shipping (not bad for a 13 lbs package); price list for a new one is 220usd while market price is in the 185-200 range.

Would one unit be enough for this project? I have no idea how to estimate the amount of evaporated water; I figure if I calculate the total water surface area I might be able to figure it out but I forgot most of my heat transfer, thermodynamics and fluids mechanics knowledge...

Anyone use a dehumidifier? In my City humidity is usually high (don't know how that impacts my project).

Any ideas?

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## niko

Here in Dallas we used a dehumidifier 24/7. Otherwise all these tanks evaporate so much water that mold develops very quickly on the walls.

The dehimidifier did something interesting - it kept the room temperature at 83-86 year round. In summer it worked less than in winter. The humidity/temperature here are about 75-80 and 90-100F in summer. So a closed room with a dehumidifier in it should logically overhead because the dehumidifier is basically and air conditioner that does not dump the heat outside. But that was not the case. I can't explain why the room always stayed at 83-86F degrees. I just know that we stopped using heaters in the fish room because the temperature was always 83-86 and the humidity was always 65.

In winter the room temperature drops but also the outside humidity drops. That causes much more evaporation from the tanks. Ad the dehimidifier runs more and heats up the room more. Temperature in winter was 82-86 again and humidity in the room was 65.

One good way to deal with humidity is to have glass lids on all tanks. But they require frequent cleaning.

--Nikolay


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## pepetj

I have enough heat problems and I wouldn't like that side effect of overheating the room. So I'm looking how to solve this.

I haven't purchased dehumidifier yet... not sure how to deal with the high volume of evaporated water in a closed room with natural humidity high tropical environment. I'm placing a nice ventilation system for sure as it's contemplated in the design from the beginning.

As for dealing with evaporation with glass lids I have my concerns since I need tanks to de-gass CO2 at night so I do need to keep gas exchange with room air in place.

Also I ruled out purchasing the LG model since I found bad reviews on it (short life, noisy, 10 degrees room temperature increase) so I'm looking for the best brands out there in the below 200usd range. Danby seems to have good reputation.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## Jeffww

pepetj said:


> I have enough heat problems and I wouldn't like that side effect of overheating the room. So I'm looking how to solve this.
> 
> I haven't purchased dehumidifier yet... not sure how to deal with the high volume of evaporated water in a closed room with natural humidity high tropical environment. I'm placing a nice ventilation system for sure as it's contemplated in the design from the beginning.
> 
> As for dealing with evaporation with glass lids I have my concerns since I need tanks to de-gass CO2 at night so I do need to keep gas exchange with room air in place.
> 
> Also I ruled out purchasing the LG model since I found bad reviews on it (short life, noisy, 10 degrees room temperature increase) so I'm looking for the best brands out there in the below 200usd range. Danby seems to have good reputation.
> 
> Pepetj
> Santo Domingo


I think big vent fans should be okay. Get large 24" diameter fans and route them out of the house. They'll be loud but they should keep the humidity down. Most fish farms I see use a set up like that.


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## pepetj

*Last Minute Relocation: Upgrading Space!*

I was originally working in the previous restricted area since I wanted my wife to have plenty of room for her home spa/gym. She woke me up early in the morning and asked me to reconsider setting up this project in the room I previously conceded her.

The way she put it made sense to move the Aquatic Plant Home Nursery & Fish Room (APHN & FR) from the narrow area in which we've been working on since she and the Architect found other cost-effective solutions for her needs that convinced me.

As a result I ended up gaining needed space and since early in the morning I've been working on final layout an this is what I ended up with.

Of course your feedback is requested and much appreciated.

Consider the drawings as non-scaled (although the main layout is scaled, the furniture, shelves, and tanks aren't).

The Red Line at the bottom represents where this project was going to be; it stays there for reference only. We are working with the room on the top of the drawings.

Top View of the APHN&FR to show available area:









I'm upgrading my Red Saddled Bichir shoal tank footprint from 60"x36" to 72"x30"; shown here as the custom 280gal. This will be a Paladarium with emersed area for plants (thinking big sized Cryptocoryne, Anubias, Ferns) while placing a huge Lagenandra meeboldii "pink" and a huge Crinum callamistratum I expect to receive next week from Travis (2ManyHobbies at APC).

To admire that tank I expect to place a 6'L x1.5"W custom made Sofa/Bed (pictured below the small 13" W x 74"L shelve holding 3x 20H tanks at some 8' height from floor level.

All tanks will be drilled and "piped" to a drain and refill. Filling from either treated tap water, reconstituted RO water or more likely, a mixture of both (a lab test of the quality of the source tap water will let me know how to proceed).

All tanks are Marineland (except of course the custom built); 30B = 30gal Breeder (30x18x13); 20H = 20gal High (24x12x16); shown are the first level tanks: 180W = 180gal Wide (72x24x24); 120 = 120gal (48x24x24); 37C = 37gal Column (20x18x24); 56C = 56gal Column (30x18x24).

Top View of the APHN&FR showing the upper shelves (mid shelf hidden due to overlap):









The second shelve will exist only on the West wall, on top of the 180W and 120. Here I will place five 20H.

Top View of the APHN&FR showing only the second level shelves and tanks & furniture below:









I decided against placing tanks with a lateral/side wall facing front/rear for ease of working with them and of course enjoy a better visual.

My Architect is already in possession of the apartment and in two weeks time we should begin the assembly of this project. I expect to be mostly completed by six to eight weeks.

Counting on you to do this. So far as posted before I decided to go with piston airpump and Poret filtration for all tanks (gotta listen to Niko!).

My wife purchased today a 3.5KVA power inverter for this project (impossible not to love her) so I will be covered from blackouts (I figure it can handle the piston pump).

Thank you

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## pepetj

Ordered 20 4" cube Poret filter (complete with Cube-lifter) since at 7.00usd each it made sense over ordering the sheet and do the whole thing by myself.

I have then the Poret filters for all eight 20H, all eight 30B, both 37C (18 tanks) which leaves two Poret filters for the 56C.

For 150usd it's a pretty good cost-effective solution for 19 tanks. Thank you Niko for the suggestion!

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## pepetj

Managed to order 10 nine liter bags of Amazonia through a friend enthusiast who will ship them by sea to Santo Domingo (takes 2 weeks, maybe less). So far 28.90 each shipped to Miami, FL.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## Tex Gal

Your project is so adventurous! I can't wait to see how it all comes together! Hope all your plants grow like crazy! Sure looks like you've done your homework. Once you get it done you'll have to take pxs with you and your plant club in the room!


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## Aquaticz

subscribed

VERY Nice work -great thinking makes for a great plan 
[email protected]@kin forward to more progress


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## pepetj

I draw (not scaled) using Paintbrush how the tanks will look in the room. You can tell I'm not good at this but at least it gives a better visual idea.

Pic taken from the entry door of the room showing South (window) and West walls (partially hidden by North wall):









This is the East wall of the room, a single shelf holding four 30B tanks.









Still waiting for some [never ending?] "details" to receive the apartment and start setting the electric and plumbing services.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## pepetj

Following Niko's suggestions I finally got my ADA Amazonia substrate today! 









Only waiting for the doors to be in place to start setting things up

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## dstrong

Any update?


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## pepetj

The doors of the apartment. That's what's been holding me down. Yesterday the guy that builds them assured us he will instal the frames Monday 5th (not a holiday locally) and start placing the doors by Tuesday 6th.

I figure once the doors are in place and painted (at least the one leading to the project area and the entry door to the apartment) I can start working in the set up.

I'm about to go with bulkheads since locally available PVC and C-PVC threaded (male and female) end leaving a huge gap when put together and screwed (something like over one inch).

Considering which diameter to go in bulkhead: is it better to keep flow on the low side, say using 1/2" diameter PVC or go with faster flow, say 1-1/2" diameter PVC?

New ideas keep coming.

What do you think about this one:
I thought about using a medium size HOB breeding box as for placing the 4"cube Poret foam filter.

This way I should free 16 square inches inside the growing tank (this is for 20H and 30B tanks).










The Poret foam fits inside pretty well (HOB breeder box measures 6.5"L x 5"W x 5"H) I would need to cut the "lifter" to around 1/2" above the foam to keep it inside. Water is pumped into the HOB breeder box by air but small submersible pump can be easily adapgted, the Poret foam filter is powered by piston airpump, water flows back into the tank as any HOB filter. Slow flow is my target to keep water surface agitation on the lower side to prevent CO2 degassing.

Would this work? Any flaws in doing this?

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## pepetj

My wife's having surgery in 10 days so we delayed moving to our new place until she recovers. It's not "emergency-life threatening" surgery but not "elective" either. She'll be OK but I need time to take care of her.

I blocked two final weeks of my working agenda in October to dedicate full-time to this project. 

ADA New Amazonia is my new found substrate love.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo


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## ryantube

Any update? Exciting


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## Tex Gal

Well wishes to your wife. Hope all is good. 

I guess you have a little more planning time....


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## Tex Gal

Well wishes to your wife. Hope all is good. 

I guess you have a little more planning time....


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## ryantube

So did the project complete? I am curious to see the result. I might start a similar project in the future.


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## pepetj

Update for those still wondering... Had to put this ambitious project into full stop mode due to major events in my personal life. My then wife and I split Nov 2011. 2012 was a roller coaster year for me. 

I'm considering starting a new thread since design wise I'm changing not only the initial concept (nursery will be smaller and display tanks are all in one room). I'll listen to what you have to say regarding this idea.

I sold or gave away some of my fish (e.g. all my Discus fish and some of my tanks) as well as plants and other equipment, some disappeared when I moved (like a nice Oakton DO meter) yet for the most part, I have most of what I need to make this work. 

I moved last month to a new place, barely managing to keep crucial tanks cycled (e.g. my planted Red Saddled Bichir tank and some of my invert tanks), so far I have 7 display tanks (out of 8 ) fully cycled and running. I'm just beginning to incorporate CO2 and dosing (3 out of 8 ). 

Pics comming soon (using my cell as hotspot, still waiting for land line and ADSL)

Pepetj 
Santo Domingo


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## dabrybry

Dunno how old this thread is or if the project is still underway but... 

In regards to drilling the tanks and overflows, you could use a siphoning overflow. Requires no drilling and simply hangs off the side of the tank. There are definitely drawbacks to them, but it is an option. Just thought I'd throw that out there

Hope things are still going well for you man, would love to see this thing come together!


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