# Blue Mono P.Phosphates?



## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

Ive been receiving many questions regarding the color of our Phosphates.

Apparently there is a substitution going around that is coming in a blue powder form.

Green Leaf Aquariums DOES NOT SELL BLUE phosphates. We keep the real deal in stock at all times.
So...There is no need to worry when it comes to the quality of our ferts. 


Best Regards, Orlando

P.S

Does anybody have a picture of this blue stuff?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I was told by someone, but I don't recall who, that there is a worldwide shortage of phosphates, and that made the undyed material be unavailable, so "everyone" was selling blue dyed phosphate.


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## Logan's Daddy (May 3, 2008)

Phosphate's not supposed to be blue?

I just assumed that's how it all was....


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## jazzlvr123 (Apr 29, 2007)

thats good to know your the only person i know online that still sells the white stuff. now i know where to get my fix


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

I guess I will have to talk to the nursery folks and see if they could shed a little more light on this. 
There is a world wide shortage. In Fact, there is no current producer in the world manufacturing it.
The price has tripled for the good stuff, so they have introduced a substitute with a slightly different chemical make up I would imagine. 

Regards, O

P.S
We currantly have 1000 pounds of phosphates in pure white(KH2PO4/0-52-34). And our supplier has tons of it still availbale.
So I dont see us running out anytime soon.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Orlando, you certainly have enough KH2PO4 to fill my needs for a few years. I need to order some in the next few weeks, since I only have about half a cupful left. Hmmm, divide 1000 pounds, times 16 ounces per pound by 1/2 times ........well, yes I think you have enough for me.


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## Riiz (Jul 19, 2008)

The blue stuff looks like a lighter shade of dry Miracle-gro. The color doesnt stain or even change the color of the aquarium water, since its dosed in such low quantities. I've been using the blue stuff for over 6months and havent noticed any drawback from using it, plus the stuff is still reasonably priced.


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

Pls educate us: why is the blue stuff a problem? What's the real difference between the two? How does this difference affect aquarium plants?


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

I don't think anybody said it was a problem.
Id like to know exactly what it is myself.


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## Wö£fëñxXx1 (Feb 10, 2005)

Supposedly a world wide shortage on MKP, the supplier was able to 
find this MKP which was/is intended to be used as a foliar spray, they 
simply add blue food coloring which is harmless to fish and plants
and is only visible in high concentrations.
this is the memo I received.

Regards


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

orlando said:


> I don't think anybody said it was a problem.
> Id like to know exactly what it is myself.


You called it "the good stuff" up above which certainly implied the blue stuff was otherwise.


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

The good stuff(KH2PO4 white) would be what most folks are used to. 
But, when it arrives blue I question it.

Do you know exactly what it is?^^^^^


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## overboard (Mar 11, 2008)

I have been using the blue stuff, too. The site I got it from said the same as above, that there was a shortage and the blue is a marker or ID for spraying applications and it is harmless. 

One good thing: I keep a little nano tank at work, and I brought a little tiny ziplock of a dry macro mix and put in my desk drawer. We were burglarized last weekend, and the police opened all the drawers and dusted for fingerprints. The slight blue tinge saved me a LOT of explaining.


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

overboard said:


> .....We were burglarized last weekend, and the police opened all the drawers and dusted for fingerprints. The slight blue tinge saved me a LOT of explaining.


:rofl:


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## lildark185 (Jul 7, 2006)

Does the blue dye affect the long term viability of the ferts if it is made into a stock solution?


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

Does anybody know what *exactly* the Blue product is?


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

I believe it is no different, just blue. When I worked at Greenleaf Nurseries (not to be confused with Greenleaf Aquatics....this was a wholesale container nursery, landscape plants, nothing aquatic  ) we used blue-colored ferts that we dissolved in large holding tanks and injected into the irrigation water.

Not sure why it was blue, though. Perhaps so you can see that the water is non-potable when you mix a jug of it up? Anyone work for MiracleGro (or have connections) that can tell us why they color the ferts blue?


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

My vendors should be getting back to me in a day or 2 with the answer we/Im looking for.

Thanks, Orlando


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

Got it now, thanks all.

Blue Phosphate= 11-37-0

White Phosphate= 0-52-34

Regards, Orlando


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

orlando said:


> Got it now, thanks all.
> 
> Blue Phosphate= 11-37-0
> 
> ...


Something does not add up here. How can this be? Are not these numbers standing for N-P-K, or Nitrogen-Phosphate-Potassium? And if so how can any blue be called MonoPotassiumPhosphate if it 11-37-0 and by ZERO as the last number thus contains no Potassium???

Your "Blue Phosphate= 3-18-18" that you first posted before editing (I guess, that's what came to me in the subscribed email to this forum posting) would make more sense but then I start to wonder how the dosing would be different if the ratios of nutrients are different, yet many people, myself included, do EI dosing using either Blue or White and notice no differences or need to dose differently.


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

http://www.andersonsnutrients.com/w...ucts/liquids/phosphates+-+base+grades+11-37-0

And if so how can any blue be called MonoPotassiumPhosphate if it 11-37-0 and by ZERO as the last number thus contains no Potassium???

This is the reason Im posting. 
I guess I should just get a 50LB bag and do my own test.

-O


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

This is the only thing close to blue that I can find. Still looking to find out *Exactly* what the blue phosphates are..
Will keep you posted.
If you find more info please post it.

- O


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

orlando said:


> http://www.andersonsnutrients.com/w...ucts/liquids/phosphates+-+base+grades+11-37-0
> 
> And if so how can any blue be called MonoPotassiumPhosphate if it 11-37-0 and by ZERO as the last number thus contains no Potassium???
> 
> ...


The first question that comes to my mind seeing that link is to wonder if ammonium polyphosphate is the same as Mono Potasium Phosphate, and I'm guessing no.


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

No, is correct. But it is under liquids. So, Im not sure.....I will keep on searching. Thanks

- O


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## rich815 (Jun 27, 2007)

orlando said:


> No, is correct. But it is under liquids. So, Im not sure.....I will keep on searching. Thanks
> 
> - O


What is "correct"?


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

"and I'm guessing no"

- Orlando


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

OK, for no particular reason can I throw in a few comments???

What we need are PO4 ions with a minus 3 charge. How we get them is less important. You need to insure that nothing harmful goes in the tank. You need to know how much phosphate you're getting per gram (or tsp.) What we'd all like to use is good old:

KH2PO4

It should have an NPK number of zero-something-something, depending on purity and should be a colorless, uniform crystal when in its pure form.

Stating that there are no current producers is inaccurate. About 40 million tons are produced annually from dozens of mining operations around the globe. Phosphate is used extensively in soap, fertilizers, medical fluids, and livestock feed. Prices have gone up enormously over the past year due to increased demand primarily in India and China. Just like with oil, price can go up sharply when demand goes up just a little. Container ships full of this stuff arrive and leave US ports on a continual basis.

Personally, I don't really care what color my phosphate source is provided that the seller actually KNOWS WHAT HE'S SELLING. Once you know what you have, the math is easy. Agricultural additives such as color agents are very unlikely to be harmful, especially at the concentrations that we're adding.


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## Squawkbert (Jan 3, 2007)

If it's blue, it's got something that is not contributing to your NPK in it.

KH2PO4, K2HPO4 (what I use) and K3PO4 - all white powders - as are KNO3, NH4NO3

If it's got color, I'd insist on knowing what the color is. If it's a lake, it's probably OK. If it's a dye, it could have something less than OK in it. I'd pass.


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

Hmmm, my vendors who mainly supply vast quantities of agricultural supply to the US and around the world say a little different story.
They say due to limited supply of KH2PO4 from there mining source's prices have more than doubled.

But, to the topic at hand. I still would like to know EXACTLY what the blue phosphate is. Anybody know?


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

The price has indeed doubled, or even tripled compared to a year ago. That doesn't mean it isn't available. We're making and using it as fast as ever. It's just like any other commodity. Once you get to the steep part of the supply-demand curve it doesn't take much to cause prices to soar. Fertilizer prices are responsible for much of the recent jump in food prices.

The mining and distribution of phosphate isn't exactly a cottage industry. Truly massive quantities of the stuff are used every year. There isn't a suitable substitute either - kind of like there isn't a suitable substitute for oxygen.

But yes, back to the real question....... the blue stuff is certainly a dye or additive. I suspect somebody got a deal on something slightly cheaper (lower grade) and it happens to have been dyed for agricultural purposes.

KH2PO4 in a high-grade formulation is colorless and uniformly granular. Low-grade stuff is "dirty", clumpy, and for our purposes, arguably just as good. Anyhow, we don't use that much. A few pounds will last most of us for years so why not buy the good stuff? It's just one less thing to fret about.


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## Fortuna Wolf (Feb 3, 2007)

My guess is that what you have is monoammonium phosphate, NH4*H2*PO4, which is usually listed as 11-47-00, though my calculations put it at 11-30-00... whatever.


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## bpimm (Jun 12, 2006)

The blue stuff I got is labeled Mono Potassium Phosphate 0-52-34


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## orlando (Feb 14, 2007)

I think it has been labeled incorrectly in this case. We use the same compound and it its not blue.

Where ever folks are getting this tell me that there blue goods come with a note stating its been substituted with the following blue product due to limited sources. 
I find it very hard to believe the blue product is in fact what its labeled as, I will make more calls today to try and find out again exactly what it is. I thought this would be easy, man was I wrong.


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## stuckintexas (Aug 12, 2008)

yea, my blue stuff had the same label attached...a note saying that the blue stuff is all they could provide at this time and that it is not harmful to the tank and will yield the same results in the plant growth as the old white fert. ive been using it and no issues.


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

my label said it was a food coloring because it was intended for a spray. i'm guessing so the water would be dyed to say dont drink me.


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