# ADA style rocks



## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

Anyone know what type of rocks these are and where they could be acquired?


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## bharada (Apr 17, 2004)

They look almost volcanic in nature, and since Amano likes to gather his rocks from the mountains in Japan they very well may be be.

When I go to visit my family in Hawaii next summer I'll need to a take a hike in the mountains and see if I can find anything like those...that and try to bring home some Hawaiian freshwater shrimp to try out in my tanks.


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Greg,

That's a hard question to answer specifically. There are many rocks in this world....

A general answer would be that they seem to be meta-pelites - meaning metamorphic rocks originating from fine grained sedimentary rocks. I say that because I have seen similar weathering patterns in meta-pelites. But confirmation could only be had from close examination of the grain structure. I spent three years in London University peering down polarized microscopes studying mineralogy, crystal formations, and lithology. Some of those lessons are burned into my brain....

Have you tested them with (a) some acid to see if they have any carbonate content (suggesting possibly a sedimentary origin), (b) a very strong rare earth magnet to see if there is any magnetite in them (indicative of a metamorphic derivation). Maybe you don't even have these rocks in hand.

If not metamorphic or sedimentary that leaves the possibility of an igneous origin. Maybe they are finely crystalized basalts? Again, one needs to have a close look-see.

Where do the photos originate from? Is there any context there?

If you had an ID and were able to date them in some way, you could get a geological map and find out where rocks of a similar age are located and then start the (long) search.

The best areas to collect veined rocks that look nice in aquascapes might be in outcrops of old (meaning eroded) mountain chains. The tectonic events (such as sea closing and subduction of tectonic plates) are well-recorded in the rocks of New England. Here we have anything from very pure marbles to volcanics from events 400-500 million years ago. The mica schists etc of New York State are beautiful to behold, often filled with garnets. The finer grained rocks are often veined with quartz. This type of area is better for finding suitable rocks for aquascaping than, say, a shield area.

Get a book of 'roadside' geology for your area and you might come up with some hints.

You're on the West Coast, right? As I remember, there are some interesting rocks up Highway 101 on the coast, and some nice ones inland in the higher ground. Some of the serpentines along the coast - and jade-bearing rocks - appeared good and if weathered rocks were selected from nearby streams, there might be some good candidates for aquariums.

Hope this helps.

Andrew Cribb


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## ShaneSmith (Feb 15, 2004)

I get rocks that looks just like that (A little more porous). I get them from Pebble Junction. I dont know if it is a chain or not, but any kind of rock store will have rocks of all sorts. You just gotta go look for what you want.


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

I don't have the rocks, I got the images from a Japanese site. This was interesting, while hunting on the INTERNET,


> Aesthetics
> 
> For thousands of years, Chinese and Japanese collectors have sought out natural stones possessing two highly prized qualities: beauty and suggestive shape. What began as a simple pastime pursued around the world -- collecting beautiful stones -- evolved over the centuries into a complex art form regulated by strict aesthetic conventions. In Japan, this art form is known as "suiseki".
> 
> ...


http://www.bonsai-nbf.org/stone/history.htm


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

Ok, found some rock experts. Maybe I can get some help from them.
California Suiseki Society
http://www.felixrivera-suiseki.com/CaSusekiSoc.html


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## JLudwig (Feb 16, 2004)

IUnknown said:


> Ok, found some rock experts. Maybe I can get some help from them.
> California Suiseki Society
> http://www.felixrivera-suiseki.com/CaSusekiSoc.html


Good idea... I was thining Roger Miller could help also, maybe bouncehim an email. When I went down to Houston for the DFW meeting, Luis had some zen rocks he had flown in from mainland China methinks, quite pricy but looked similar and I imagine he would know who to call...

Jeff


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

Yeah, when Luis talked at the SFAS he told us about his bonsai rock connection. If you watch the AGA video from this year, Amano has a very small tank with a rock that reminds me of the Suiseki stuff. I mean ADA tanks seem like the incorporate a lot of the Suiseki ideas.


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

Mr Amano's rather sarcastic comments about things going up in price in China when a 'foreigner' shows interest in them was humorous. Generally speaking, these display stones are expensive even in China.

Roger Miller's response on another board was also non-committal. One cannot ID rocks unless they are available for examination in hand. His idea was that, perhaps, they were dolomitic, based on the weathering patterns displayed.

You should look closer to home for rocks. I know companies in China that actually import display stones from the USA.

Andrew Cribb


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

pineapple said:


> You should look closer to home for rocks. I know companies in China that actually import display stones from the USA.


I second that. Some of the most interesting stones I've ever seen came from the Mohave and around Death Valley. There are many, many other places where you can find interesting stones. For the most part you have to go a little out of your way to find them. That seems to be a sticking point for a lot of folks.

Roger Miller


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## bharada (Apr 17, 2004)

Roger Miller said:


> pineapple said:
> 
> 
> > You should look closer to home for rocks. I know companies in China that actually import display stones from the USA.
> ...


Both Greg and I live in the SF Bay Area, so it can get to be a rather long haul to get to anyplace where a Park Ranger won't start paying close attention to someone tossing large piles of stones into the back of a pickup,


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Geez, how many rocks do you think you need? Even my 150 only has about 60 pounds of rocks in it. When I collect stones I tote them around on my back in a day pack.

I seem to remember the Erik Leung collects rocks from beaches near SF. He has collected some pretty interesting stones.


Roger Miller


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## Navarro (Feb 12, 2004)

Greg I have the rocks available at the moment and if someone is willing to do a more advanced research of them I am willing to send a sample. One thing I can tell you they do just fine in planted aquariums, I have used them for at list 3 years and there is no fluctuations in my KH GH or Ph any other needs to be researched by a Pro!
Roger I don't know if you remember the small nano cube I set up for the AGA back in 2003 I am sure we talk about these rocks before.
Luis Navarro


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## dennis (Mar 1, 2004)

I'll look into it it you send me a sample, emough to nicely scape a 15 gallon shoul dbe enough to test them proberly :lol: 

In all honestly, I have been interested in rock similar to that reciently and would love to get my hands on some. I need to check arond and see what I can find. Any tips on companies or local businesses who might have similar looking rocks. My favorite so far has been the Dragonstone. Thats awesome looking stuff

Andrew, I am in the Conn River Valley in Mass. ANy tips on types/areas I should look locally. I seem to see lots of granite, sandstone and shale but while many of the mts. here are byproducts of volcanic action and tectonic upheavle, I have yet to find anything nice like basalt


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## bharada (Apr 17, 2004)

Hey Roger, you know how it is. You find a spot with one nice rock, then you see another, then a few more...pretty soon the Park Ranger is asking you why you're dragging your backpack through the parking lot.


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

Luis, I do remember the little nanocube. The rocks were very nice. I thought there was a picture of the tank on the AGA site about the 2003 convention. I don't know if my recollection is true or not because the AGA site no longer provides a link to the 2003 AGA convention photos. Ah well.

My recollection is that the rocks in the tank were darker than the rocks in the photos that Greg posted. That could just be the difference between wet and dry. But also, I recall that the rocks that you used had smoother surfaces then those in the photos. That could just be my mistake.

I didn't pull any of those rocks out of the tank and give them a thorough examination. On sight I think my best guess (and it is merely a guess) is that the rocks were volcanic- perhaps an andesite. I'm not sure how to account for the unsual surface features and fractures shown in the photos. The rocks may have been strained and brecciated --- coarsely crushed, then bonded back together. 

There are of course other possibiities. They could be -- as Andrew suggested -- metapelites. That would make them a slate-like rock.


Roger Miller


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## Navarro (Feb 12, 2004)

Roger I know the rocks are the same in the picture post by Greg because of the many different shapes and colors they have! It may sound crazy to you but there is different shades of these rocks and some even have white quartz in between. Chinese artist use them to create Peijing sculptures by shaving and carving the rocks to narrow slate like shapes and then attaching than with concrete. the structures are placed in stone trays and water is added the sky is the limit for the size of the artist work but I have seen pictures in old Aquajournals as well as in book that I have acquired over time.


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## K Randall (Nov 23, 2004)

Here's a picture of Luis' Nano Cube at the convention.

Karen


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

So Oliver forwarded me his source for the rocks he uses in his aquascapes. I tried emailing them to see if they ship to the US, but haven't received a reply. Anyone speak German? Man, we need to get more people into this hobby, I wish we had resources like this in the US.
http://www.aquadeco.com/

Dragon-Stone









Mini-Landscape









Love the Dragon-stone in Oliver's 500L,
http://www.pbase.com/plantella/image/35550804


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## fishfry (Apr 15, 2004)

is it safe to use those holey saltwater stones in a freshwater tank...seems like they are so porous 

that company sells some gorgeous aquascaping materials...the wood especially =P~


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

fishfry said:


> holey saltwater


Could that be "wholly", "holy" (most likely not), or just "holey" (as in has many holes)?

Looking at the pictures suggests some of the stones are calcareous, meaning containing calcium carbonate such as limestones, marls and..... That's why they are weathered/eroded in that "holey" pattern.

The white holey stones are very similar to Cretaceous chalk found along the southern coast of England. Cretaceous chalk is made up of the minute carbonate shells of Coccolithophores (a time in history where there was a major build up of CO2 in the earth's atmosphere).

The type of stone Oliver uses in that particular aquascape is harder to define. The weathering pattern is certainly suggestive of carbonate content. However, that might not be the case. Carbonate is a relatively soluble mineral and is sometimes replaced over geological time periods with silica.

Andrew Cribb


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

I got in touch finally with a sales person, and emailed back about pricing.



> Thank you for your e-mail.
> Yes we do have some customers in USA, but not for the products, you are interested in.
> Our US customers buy mostly woods and cork from us.
> The Mini-Landscape and the Dragon-Stone became very popular in Europe since we started with it in 1999.
> ...


I got a little confused. I'm hoping that he was trying to say that no one has order the rocks in the US, but that they are available.


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## pineapple (May 4, 2004)

What he is saying is that he needs a proposal, Greg. He needs a distributor.

Andrew Cribb


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

I just read the latest TAG and it seems that the rocks below raise the GH. He goes on to say that the GH raise is tamed a bit by the aquasoil's softening capabilities. He also (iirc) does a 1/3 WC 3x a week. ..so the rocks below DO indeed leach either Ca, Mg or both


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

While they don't have quite the character some of those rocks you've pictured to, slate is a wonderful rock to scape with. We collected some near Ghazanfar's not too long ago along the side of the highway where they cut out to make the road. There were shades ranging from light grey to deep gray. The cool thing about slate is if it looks ugly you can just throw it at something hard (and nonvaluable..lol) and it'll break easily. Or you could be really meticulous and chip at it until you like it. We also did the acid test on it and it's fine to use in aquariums.

-Aaron


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## Robert (Feb 7, 2005)

Hi, 
these stones are all pretty nice. Damn. I live in the north of Germany we have sand, lots of sand and no real montains of stone at all. All the stones I can find came with the last ice age from Scandinavia, so they are often more or less round, no holes or things like this. We also have a second type with holes but it's rich of Calcium, so I don't use them. BTW, as a German I also speak German prety well and I can do smaller translations for you if you still need them.

best regards

Robert


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