# Old Tank, New Plants



## zengshengliu (Mar 17, 2012)

I have a 10 gallons tank for about a year and recently added plants to it.









I also added a co2 system to it (Fluval Mini Pressurized 20g-co2 Kit)
Have it for about a week now, but the CO2 indicator is still show as blue (left side of the image)
So I also added a diffuser (bottom right of the image). What I do is that I fill up the two chambers, disconnect the hose, and connect it to the diffuser. I set it so that it runs about 1 bubble every 4-5 seconds. After 2 days, the CO2 indicator is still showing blue. So right now I am blank and don't know what i did wrong.
I am new to CO2 so if I am doing something wrong, please let me know.


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## Pendulum (Oct 13, 2014)

zengshengliu said:


> I have a 10 gallons tank for about a year and recently added plants to it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In my opinion, these, small CO2 kits are isn't too economic. 20 g is very little amount. In normal CO2 release volume, maximum 2-3 week. Even if money isn't problem, it is very problematic to buy a new one all time.

There is a big question: How many watts does your fluorescens bulb have(and how many bulbs do you have?) ? With low light, CO2 isn't that important thing.

If you want your indicator to be green, easier with soft water(5-6 KH), and with strong water moving that can carry little CO2 bubbles everywhere.


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## zengshengliu (Mar 17, 2012)

Pendulum said:


> In my opinion, these, small CO2 kits are isn't too economic. 20 g is very little amount. In normal CO2 release volume, maximum 2-3 week. Even if money isn't problem, it is very problematic to buy a new one all time.
> 
> There is a big question: How many watts does your fluorescens bulb have(and how many bulbs do you have?) ? With low light, CO2 isn't that important thing.
> 
> If you want your indicator to be green, easier with soft water(5-6 KH), and with strong water moving that can carry little CO2 bubbles everywhere.


I know 20g is small, but I want to start with small first before I am getting a better one.
If I want to switch to a newer better one, which one would you recommend for a small tank?
I have 2 x 23watts bulbs (for a 10 gallons, I think its consider high (maybe?))
As for stronger water flow, I have AquaClear 30 on the lowest setting. Should I turn it up?


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## Pendulum (Oct 13, 2014)

zengshengliu said:


> I know 20g is small, but I want to start with small first before I am getting a better one.
> If I want to switch to a newer better one, which one would you recommend for a small tank?
> I have 2 x 23watts bulbs (for a 10 gallons, I think its consider high (maybe?))
> As for stronger water flow, I have AquaClear 30 on the lowest setting. Should I turn it up?


The best would be a complete CO2 system with 2-5 kg cylinder. I don't know where do you live, but here in Hungary, it is very expensive project.

It is a cheaper version: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Co...551?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item233c541c27

There is two material in the bottles, and they make CO2 by a reaction.

And the cheapest version is that I used before: A bottle with water, yeast, sugar and flour, a hole in the cap, hose to a inner filter's venturi part( you know, where the inner filter gets the air and blow into the water) This makes small bubbles.

Every week I changed the 70% of the water, and added fresh little sugar and more flour to the bottle.

Yes, you have enough light.

These types of filters aren't the best choice for a high-tech planted tank, a canister filter would be better.

Do you use micro-macro elements to fertilize the tank?


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## zengshengliu (Mar 17, 2012)

Pendulum said:


> The best would be a complete CO2 system with 2-5 kg cylinder. I don't know where do you live, but here in Hungary, it is very expensive project.
> 
> It is a cheaper version: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Co...551?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item233c541c27
> 
> ...


I use Seachem Flourish Tabs to fertilize
I am in US, and I am planning to use a better compressed CO2 system, but since it is a small tank (10 gallon), I really don't think it needs a canister filter.
As for the DIY CO2, I tried that before, but it gets messy overtime and don't produce enough bubbles.


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## Pendulum (Oct 13, 2014)

zengshengliu said:


> I use Seachem Flourish Tabs to fertilize
> I am in US, and I am planning to use a better compressed CO2 system, but since it is a small tank (10 gallon), I really don't think it needs a canister filter.
> As for the DIY CO2, I tried that before, but it gets messy overtime and don't produce enough bubbles.


A planted tank based on 3 parameter: light, Co2(It is an element too, but the most important), needed elements(micro,macro), these 3 things provides the plant growth.

Lets see your fertilizer, let me quote a sentence: "They contain no phosphate or nitrate"

You have light, you will have CO2, but you dont have very important elements like nitrate and phosphate. Without these, with this quantity of light, and CO2 injection, you will not have healthy, fast growing plants.
Now you have good trace elements fertilizer, but you have to buy macronutrient-containing fertilizer
The cheapest version is buying on ebay(Is it problem that I say that here?) KNO3 and KH2PO4, and mixing them at about 20:1 rate ( Phosphate is the less) (I use this method)
The simplest thing is to go to the nearest aquarium store, and buy a bottle of the soluted version.

Canister filter isn't that important yes, if you have good plant growth. Otherwise ammonia will be released and that is going to make algae "bang". You can try without it, but I recommend at least an internal filter for better water moving.

ps.: I have low-tech(not the el natural) planted tank, and i don't use canister filter, only an internal filter without filter media.

Picture of it: https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/647x485q90/r/745/eoJlbk.jpg


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## zengshengliu (Mar 17, 2012)

Pendulum said:


> A planted tank based on 3 parameter: light, Co2(It is an element too, but the most important), needed elements(micro,macro), these 3 things provides the plant growth.
> 
> Lets see your fertilizer, let me quote a sentence: "They contain no phosphate or nitrate"
> 
> ...


I measure the nitrate level on my tank and it is always registered at very high (80ppm+ if I remember correctly). Do you think i still need the fertilizer or is it enough?


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## Pendulum (Oct 13, 2014)

zengshengliu said:


> I measure the nitrate level on my tank and it is always registered at very high (80ppm+ if I remember correctly). Do you think i still need the fertilizer or is it enough?


What type of measure kit is that? 80 ppm means deadly concentraion in long term. My guess is you have indicator paper. These kits has very low accurate.

But anyway, a high-tech planted tank always need fertilizers. If you have high nitrate now, the tank is going to lack of it, when your plants start to grow.

If you have high now, it can be because of very rare water changes, too many fish.(so too much fish food), there aren't enough plants that could take up nitrate.(or the environment isn't provide other things what are needed by plants)

(If we talk about plants... i think you will need more.)


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## zengshengliu (Mar 17, 2012)

Pendulum said:


> What type of measure kit is that? 80 ppm means deadly concentraion in long term. My guess is you have indicator paper. These kits has very low accurate.
> 
> But anyway, a high-tech planted tank always need fertilizers. If you have high nitrate now, the tank is going to lack of it, when your plants start to grow.
> 
> ...


I use the API Freshwater Master test kit.
If I remember correctly, you can have a high amount of nitrate than others.
Even on the test kit, the scale for the nitrate goes from 0 ppm to 160 ppm while ammonia is 0 to 8 ppm and nitrite goes from 0 to 5 ppm.


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## pandragon (Jul 10, 2014)

I believe some fresh water fish can take nitrate up to 50, but more sensitive fishies need nitrates kept under 20. Is your tank cycled completely? De-nitrifying bacteria (the kind that lower nitrate) take longer to build up than the other kinds that turn ammonia into nitrite etc.Floating plants or water sprite would help suck up the excess.


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## Pendulum (Oct 13, 2014)

zengshengliu said:


> I use the API Freshwater Master test kit.
> If I remember correctly, you can have a high amount of nitrate than others.
> Even on the test kit, the scale for the nitrate goes from 0 ppm to 160 ppm while ammonia is 0 to 8 ppm and nitrite goes from 0 to 5 ppm.


Yes, you are right but 50-60 ppm is a very big concentration.

This type of test kits are not too bad at all, i use the same type(JBL).

The post before mine: yes, but this truth is only in the short term. In the long term fish do not like nitrate concentration near 50, between 20-30 is OK, but not needed that high conc.(best is 15-20 in my opinion). ( for shrimps 10-15 maximum)


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## zengshengliu (Mar 17, 2012)

pandragon said:


> I believe some fresh water fish can take nitrate up to 50, but more sensitive fishies need nitrates kept under 20. Is your tank cycled completely? De-nitrifying bacteria (the kind that lower nitrate) take longer to build up than the other kinds that turn ammonia into nitrite etc.Floating plants or water sprite would help suck up the excess.


I always thought that nitrate can only be removed through water change
I know there is bacteria for ammonia to nitrite, and another for nitrite to nitrate

As for water change, I do 50% weekly.
All my fishes seems to be fine, so maybe my test for nitrate is wrong?


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## pandragon (Jul 10, 2014)

Those tests are notorious for being hard to do correctly because one of the bottles has to be shaken like crazy to get the crystals all broken up that need to come out of the bottle, apparently whatever is in there doesn't for a complete solution. Usually the reading is low when you don't get the proper mix of the stuff, I haven't really seen high nitrates from the bottles not being mixed properly. Nitrate poisoning also takes longer to develop and i am not entirely sure of the symptoms or if it is similar to ammonia and nitrite.

The bacteria that decomposes the nitrate is anaerobic and builds up in substrate and small clogged parts of the bio media over time. I have heard of it taking an entire year to establish the denitrifying bacteria in some cases. Plants, plants, and more plants will soak up the nitrates as well. Floating plants like hornwort and water sprite. also make sure you are not overdosing nitrogen when fertilizing the plants. Slow growing plants can't soak up nitrogen as fast as floaters or other fast growing ones.


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## thunderjack14 (Nov 28, 2014)

Pendulum said:


> A planted tank based on 3 parameter: light, Co2(It is an element too, but the most important), needed elements(micro,macro), these 3 things provides the plant growth.
> 
> Lets see your fertilizer, let me quote a sentence: "They contain no phosphate or nitrate"
> 
> ...


Hello Pendulum ! i'm new to this plant stuff can you explain what KNO3 is please and what it does. i'm using Mono Potassium Phosphate -KH2PO4 now but do i need to use both at the same time? any help would be great. Thanks in advance.


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## thunderjack14 (Nov 28, 2014)

thunderjack14 said:


> Hello Pendulum ! i'm new to this plant stuff can you explain what KNO3 is please and what it does. i'm using Mono Potassium Phosphate -KH2PO4 now but do i need to use both at the same time? any help would be great. Thanks in advance.


 OH by the way you got a really nice planted tank. love it.:first:


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## tomgndallas (Nov 13, 2014)

Pendulum said:


> A planted tank based on 3 parameter: light, Co2(It is an element too, but the most important), needed elements(micro,macro), these 3 things provides the plant growth.
> 
> Lets see your fertilizer, let me quote a sentence: "They contain no phosphate or nitrate"
> 
> ...


Here is another option for purchasing the fertilizers above... I ordered during the holiday, already arriving today via USPS...

http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizer.html


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## tomgndallas (Nov 13, 2014)

One more resource for you...it has helped me with my learning.

http://www.barrreport.com/forumdisplay.php/67-Are-you-new-to-aquatic-plants-Start-here?


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## tomgndallas (Nov 13, 2014)

One more thing, if you want your CO2 setup to stay small, I have heard of folks adapting the cylinders used for paintball guns to a regulator and using those. Easy to fill at most sporting good stores. 

I think for costs sake, if you can swing it, look for a 5lb cylinder on either craigslist, or you can buy a new one off Amazon for about 60 bucks. 

Others will say buy the cheapest used cylinder for CO2 you can find and locate a local shop that does trade ins. This way you are always getting a new bottle that is maintained by the shop. 

I am probably complicating things more for you.


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