# If you could do it over again...



## MiamiAG (Jan 13, 2004)

I think it would be valuable for newbies to learn from the mistakes of more experienced aquatic gardeners. Lets learn from our mistakes.

If you could do it over again, what would you do differently?

I'll start it out...

I would plant more densely from the very beginning and do water changes more often.


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

I would forgo the CO2 and commercial substrates and concentrate solely on Walstead style tanks. 

Planting heavily from the start is a close second.


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## bobo (Jan 21, 2004)

I think I'd start out with sterilized plants and sterilized everything, i.e. bleach treat the works. In fact, I'm doing this massive program now, three to five years into some tanks. Somewhere along the line I introduced a particularly nasty from of red algae, which I believe is a form of staghorn and also a very thick, green, choking type of hair algae which I think is claph. or oodeo-whatever.

Now, I am *not* talking here about the soft, brown and green snot algae which comes along with almost every body of water one initiates as an aquatic zone. Those minor annoyances come floating in on airborn spores and then go away with proper nutrient management and the standard plant tank protocols. No, I'm talking about some real serious pests here which I've probably imported from all over the wide, wide world with my many aquatic plant trades. These red algae do not float through the air and are passed on only through direct water to water contact. The only treatment for any type of these Red, pest algae one has as far as I'm concerned is to bleach absolutly everything and quarentine anything, and I mean anything new from then on -- plant, fish, even rocks and wood.

I personally intend to do as Paul Kromholz suggests and closely examine each new plant in a white dishpan under good lighting with a big magnifying glass. Depending on what I discover, the plant may get just a mild, 2 minute safety treatment in a 19 to 1 mix of 5% bleach and water, or as much as five to seven minutes for some anubias and narrow leaf Java fern I know that look as if they might be related to ZZ Top.

Some find this sort of philosophy a bit extreme, but I'll bet in reality they just haven't run into one of these monsters (yet). I've heard some people claim that these algaes evolved in the Asian plant nurseries to take advantage of the exact same conditions many of us like to provide our plants with - high light, high nutrient levels and CO2. If you really have one of these beasts you can try to nutrient manage the situation all you want. I have and it aint happening.

As a matter of fact, I've personally gotten to the point with my aquatic chemistry skills where I can dial in whatever proportion of nutrients (or lack of nuttrients) anyone would care to suggest as a management strategy, and have in fact done so in many extended instances to no avail. Hey, once you have the proper (good) test kits and have determined the nutrient consumption rates on each of your tanks through their use in conjunction with the nutrient calculator -- it's just not that mysterious or hard to do. Algae's still there anyway.

I don't want it managed into the background -- I want it gone forever

bobo


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## panaque (Jan 21, 2004)

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that red algae is an aerobic algae, meaning that it does just the opposite of normal plants in respect to respiration. I do know that it seems to go away if you maintain co2 levels at around 30ppm. I believe that at this level plants will start to really outcompete it for nutrients. It also might "suffocate" it. Higher than 30 ppm though and your fish will start to have problems. And be sure to keep an eye on your pH. 
For me, what I would do differently is to get a bigger aquarium. But then I would just want the next size up. Maybe I should have been born with gills! :lol:


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## MiamiAG (Jan 13, 2004)

Oh, I thought of another one.

Introduce an algae clean up crew early on. Plenty of SAEs, ottos and shrimp.


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## bobo (Jan 21, 2004)

*If we could start over*

Pan. As I understand it, Red algaes are mostly marine, having evolved in that environment. There are fresh water types too though, like staghorn, bba, brush algae, too if I'm not mistaken. They only show red with alcohol prep.

Excuse the use of common names, which we usually have a fit over when refering to (higher) plants, but the Latin for these algae is seldom seen for some reason. Perhaps this is because no one is really sure of applying the correct taxonomy in the appropriate places. I'm certainly not.

This point about the CO2 may be the key because, now that I think of it, the staghorn's re-appearance after a long nap was concurrent with my running out of CO2 and not replacing the tank for about a month. As I recall, I was busy and also curious to see the effects without it. Guess I have my curiousity satisfied now!

Bob Olesen


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## MiamiAG (Jan 13, 2004)

THought of another one...I wouldn't buy anything until I've researched them on a forum like APC.


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

if I was to do it all over agin....my 29g would start as a planted tank from the start!. ..instead of converting it over from a fish only tank


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## shannon (Jan 30, 2004)

*starting over*

After numerous "kills" by trial and error, I agree that research of the desired plants is at the top. Three things I now look for are what kind of water (soft-acid or tolerates harder), how much light and nutrient demands.

By the way friends; what is a Walstead style tank? 

Shannon


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## Sir_BlackhOle (Jan 25, 2004)

"Walstad" style is based on Diana Walstads style of keeping planted aquariums. You need to get her book "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium." I am reading it right now and it was recommended to me by another plant enthusiast. It is a really good and informative book with lots and lots of details


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

If I could do it over again I would go with African Cichlid tanks.  I have never kept them till I got my shell dweller tank and they are truly a ton of fun.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Hi Bob! Nice to see you alive and kicking! So this is where you and Art have been hiding!

I made plenty of mistakes in the first two years. Mostly I would just start out slower, take my time, and have more patience to allow things to mature.


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## jerseyjay (Jan 25, 2004)

Rex Grigg said:


> If I could do it over again I would go with African Cichlid tanks.  I have never kept them till I got my shell dweller tank and they are truly a ton of fun.


Rex,

African cichlids are very addictive. Why ?. Because they are "extremely" easy to keep and breed. The same goes for the actual setup. Few rocks, sand and some Anubias sp. w/ Valliseneria and your tank will look very "natural".

I went the other way. Plants ---> african cichlids. I can't live without either now. :idea:


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## cpr4cpu (Feb 9, 2004)

Quarantine all new fish and plants. Or at a bare minimum I would "dip" them to reduce parasites, snails, etc.


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## ShaneSmith (Feb 15, 2004)

I would spend the money on pressurized co2 right away and not buy so many lights.


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## Sir_BlackhOle (Jan 25, 2004)

If I could do it over again I would NOT use just plain gravel.


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## Justin Fournier (Jan 27, 2004)

If I could do it over again I would redo my plumbing so the output from the reactor went directly to the tank, as opposed to dumping back into the sump.

Everything else I do differently now from what I did in the beginning is so far detached it's two totally different worlds, from Walstad style tanks 10 years ago till my newest super high tech tank, I couldn't have gotten this far without starting the way I did.


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## Wheeler (Feb 8, 2004)

If *I* could do it all over again:

I wouldn't waste my time with yeast CO2 and drop the bucks on a regulator/needle valve and 10# tank right after bought the aquarium. It's more important than fancy filters, lights, and substrates. Pressurised CO2 and a powerhead are all that's necessary.

30" tanks are a PITA to light properly. I would not have bought the 3 that I did :roll: 

Common practice is to feed our plants way too much and I subscribed to that for a long time. You'd be surprised how healthy the plant growth is with just a fraction of the recommended amounts and algae becomes *much* less of an issue. Of course, the specifics depend on your substrate and tap water... Light makes less of a difference than most people say.

I stopped spending tons of money and time on algae eaters such as shrimp, ottos, SAE a while ago-- they are over rated, IMHO. Snails (Physa sp., or ramshorns) are the best, hands down and they're free. I don't have algae anymore (see last point). The snails keep things ****-and-span.

Constant tinkering is the worst thing possible for a plant tank. Choose a way and go with it. When you see a problem or aren't satisfied with something, change ONE THING AT A TIME. Hehe-- that way you know what the solution was. My hard head found itself bleaching/scrubbing out algae infested tanks for years before I figured that out :x 

Anyway, YMMV...


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

I started out fifty years ago with some guppies and some plants. The guppies did fine, but the plants all died, and so I started focusing on the plants. Now, I know that the problem was very hard water and no iron, because I was planting in washed gravel. Thats what the book said to do! Slowly, over the years, I made discoveries about benefits of soil, lower light levels (that works better when nutrients are limiting), nutrients, use of rain water, etc. I did it all by trial and error, and the greatest pleasures came from the experimenting, especially when the experiments worked! 

If I had to do it all over again, I would do it the same way. If there had been a book that told me how to do everything, I probably would have lost interest in the hobby. I like the experimenting. Every tank of mine is an experiment of some kind or other.


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## Chuck H (Jan 25, 2004)

If I had it to do over...

I would spend more time in front of my tanks enjoying them instead of working on them all the time.

I would spend my time caring for and observing the plants rather than trying to starve and kill algae.

I would not spend good money on plants at the LFS when those same plants grow natively in the lakes etc. near my house. :roll: The same goes for driftwood and rocks. 

I would go with compressed CO2 right away rather than change umpteen million bottles of yeast brew.

I would not waste so much money on halfass test kits and buy good ones right off the bat.

I'd rob a bank to feed my addiction. :lol:


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## MiamiAG (Jan 13, 2004)

Chuck! :lol: Well said!

Great advice! Folks, please remember to enjoy your aquarium! That's the point.


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## Andi (Feb 6, 2008)

I'd like to resurrect this ancient thread. As a newbie I'd like to hear more stories to get me in the right direction.


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## Homer_Simpson (Apr 2, 2007)

If I could do it all over again, I would do the setup only 2 40 gallon tanks. One low light and one high light.

For High Light

(1) Buy the best substrate to start the tank. ADA Aquasoil original or II. Yeah it costs more, but I consider it a one time expense for a substrate with about a 10 year life span which would last the life of the setup.

(2) Pressurized C02 with top of line regulator from Rex Grigg to avoid c02 inconsistency. Again, you get what you pay for and the last thing I want to worry about is a regulator malfunction.

(3) I would better plan placement of the tank and not do my typical jungle theme. I would add 15% floating plants and some fast growing "healthy" stem plants and jam pack the tank with "healthy" plants as an anti-algae measure.

(4) Estimative Index Fertilization.

(5) I would purchase top of the line 2x55 watt AH supply bright light kit for lighting.

(6) The fish would include Black mollies, Bristlenose pleco, Rosy Barbs, Florida Flagfish, otocats, and Amano Shrimp.

For Low Tech

(1) Jam pack tank with low light plants. Anubias, java moss, java ferns, crypts, etc.

(2) Better focus on plant placement and aquascaping from the start before plant growth takes off.

(3) No more than 80 watts compact fluorescent or T5 lighting.

(4) No c02 but Seachem Excel for Carbon.

(5) Hardy fish like black skirt tetras, zebra danios, other tetras, etc.,


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

If I could start over again I would know what I know now that I didn't know then. I would know what "heavily planted" means. I would know the importance of good water circulation. I would know much more about how to plant the plants. I would have a budget for the entire setup, facing the actual total cost, to prevent me from saving a penny here and a penny there. I would have an ADA tank with a pendant light fixture. I would have one or two schools of colorful fish, otos, and shrimp - no loaches.


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## Andi (Feb 6, 2008)

So, how would you explain "heavily planted" now?


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## Freshwater (Oct 22, 2007)

I would have bought a puppy instead...:crazy:


Thanks for reviving this thread...good read... gives me some things to think about.

Todd


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## swallace602 (Jul 20, 2006)

I would not put as many fish into my tank. More fish does not necessarily make it better.

But drawf loaches are cool and like to be in a school.


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## Jessie (Apr 23, 2007)

Off the top of my head... here's some stuff that I should have done right off the bat.

I would invest in the right lighting for my tank, the first time around. Less money after all is said and done.

Definitely plant heavily, plant early. 

Ask more questions.

Plan/draw out an aquascape and stick as close to plans as possible.

Surge protector power strips.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Andi said:


> So, how would you explain "heavily planted" now?


Heavily planted means covering the substrate with plants about 2 cm apart. Those can be stem plants planted one stem at a time, plus midground plants, either rosette type or stems, and "lawn" type plants planted one sprig at a time. Big areas of bare substrate aren't in a "heavily planted" tank.


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## DMHdispute (Oct 23, 2007)

I would have researched how to grow plants and what i want in a tank a long time ago.
I would have kept my 29 gallon as a quarentine tank.
I still need to look around my local area for plants and driftwood.
I would have setup my light timer as soon as i got the light intsead of leaving the light on for way too long and getting the gwa im dealing with.
And probably a lot more stuff, maybe ill add later.

And hoppy, who no loaches? Im thinking of getting one to control my snails.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I had 50-100 cherry shrimp in my tank when I added 3 Yoyo Loaches to get rid of snails. Now I have, at most 2 shrimp. The loaches actively hunt the shrimp, burrowing into the plant masses where the shrimp lived. As much as I enjoy the Loaches, I enjoyed the shrimp even more.


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## MiSo (Nov 4, 2005)

i would try to not be cheap about the equipment i buy.

you'll end up saving yourself more money (and less headache) in the long run when you buy the good stuff vs. the cheap stuff.


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## Grubs (Jul 4, 2007)

I would make my cabinets 3'6" high to get the tanks at a better viewing height when standing looking at them.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

hoppycalif said:


> I had 50-100 cherry shrimp in my tank when I added 3 Yoyo Loaches to get rid of snails. Now I have, at most 2 shrimp. The loaches actively hunt the shrimp, burrowing into the plant masses where the shrimp lived. As much as I enjoy the Loaches, I enjoyed the shrimp even more.


OH NO!! So sorry!! You should have added a little loach like a batik. I have one in my cherry shrimp tank for the snails. I will take him out when the snail population is low, I think. He will eat the babies, I'm sure. Hope I'm not hitting you in a sore spot here, just info....

IF I could do it all over, I would have gotten the right substrate instead of big pea gravel. I would have gotten the right lights sooner. I would have kept my 55g tank. I would have like to have known about shrimp keeping earlier and enjoyed that.


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## critter333294 (Apr 15, 2007)

Wow this thread is great! I'm glad to know that by coming here and just doing as much research as I could before starting this hobby that I was able to avoid most of the mistakes that are commonly made. 

Although my tank's only been set up for like 2 1/2 months, I spent a long time planning it.....and although i'd probably have an algae farm, I did wish that I invested in a higher watt light.....i'm also considering moving to another form of CO2(pressurized, the DIY is just so inconsistent).


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## cleek (Jan 24, 2008)

hmmm ,
research everythhing online 1st b4 buying equipment . Get a co2 checker to avoid nooby mistakes and thinking you are having c02 into the tank


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

I would have researched more first before jumping in. Then I wouldn't have had to change out the substrate from pea gravel, I never would have used it to begin with. I wouldn't have wasted money on inferior filters, I'd have purchased quality canisters from the start. I wouldn't have freaked out and tossed plants that were simply converting from emersed to submersed growth. And I never, ever would have put plants in my tanks without washing them thoroughly to get rid of any hitchhiking duckweed.


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