# Completely Overrun by Algae



## George02 (Jan 11, 2007)

Please Help!!! My 20 gallon is completely over-run. The water is completely green, I mean really green, you can't even see an inch inside the tank. Also, have string or hair algae growing as well as green/brown spots all over the glass.
Here is my setup:
20 gallon tank with about 30 guppies in it. (I know it's a bit over-crowded)
Thank is heavily planted.
CO2 supply is via Hagen System as well as Excel. I'm in the process of creating DIY CO2 bottle to work with Hagen instead of adding Excel.
I use EI system to fertilize and I dose dry ferts directly to the tank. For this tank I use the amount of ferts setup for 10-20 gallon as per EI system.

Now here is the thing. I used to use Seachem line of liquid ferts with their dosing index. When I was doing that I got green water but cleared it up by increasing the Nitrate dosage. Then of course, I ran out of Seachem ferts and switched to cheaper dry ferts. Within 3-4 days of switching to dry ferts the water turned green and I've been fighting it ever since (about 4-5 months now). When I started using dry ferts with EI system, I was dosing according with 20-30 gallon dosing index, then someone here suggested to cut it in half, which I did and it didn't help.

Other symptoms show some plant stems turning black and dying out, leafs fall off of some plants. Also, leafs have holes in them(I know that could be potassium deficiency, but I doubt it, I add enough of it. I think anyway) Also, some other leafs are just black, but they are not dead, just covered with blank algae looks like.

Can you guys please help out. I'm out of ideas here.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Here's my 2 cents worth: do the recommended black out time for gw, I think it's 3 days, but look it up on a search. Then do a major clean of the tank, manually removing as much algae as you can. If you do any uprooting/replanting make sure you do gravel vac where you do that. Include in your protocol a 60-70% water change.

You have a large bio-load in there. Speaking from personal experience as one who also has a large bio load of guppies, I would bet if you're adding EI at recommended times and amounts you're od'ing at least the NO3. You might want to invest in a couple of test kits - NO3 and PO4 (*always calibrate them prior to use*!). I would dose EI recommended levels after the water change and then a half doseage midweek. Add your micros as recommended on the remaining days.

Good luck, HTH.


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## George02 (Jan 11, 2007)

Bert H said:


> Here's my 2 cents worth: do the recommended black out time for gw, I think it's 3 days, but look it up on a search. Then do a major clean of the tank, manually removing as much algae as you can. If you do any uprooting/replanting make sure you do gravel vac where you do that. Include in your protocol a 60-70% water change.
> 
> You have a large bio-load in there. Speaking from personal experience as one who also has a large bio load of guppies, I would bet if you're adding EI at recommended times and amounts you're od'ing at least the NO3. You might want to invest in a couple of test kits - NO3 and PO4 (*always calibrate them prior to use*!). I would dose EI recommended levels after the water change and then a half doseage midweek. Add your micros as recommended on the remaining days.
> 
> Good luck, HTH.


So green water could be caused by either over-dosing and under-dosing of NO3?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

You left out telling us about your lighting. Very high light intensity will mean you need to be very careful to maintain adequate supplies of all of the fertilizers, including CO2, at a steady concentration at all times, or algae is almost certain to take over. Green water, in my opinion, is started by a small spike in ammonia in the tank, such as from excessive fish feeding or decaying plant matter or dead fish. Green water is not caused by too little or too much nitrate.


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## George02 (Jan 11, 2007)

hoppycalif said:


> You left out telling us about your lighting. Very high light intensity will mean you need to be very careful to maintain adequate supplies of all of the fertilizers, including CO2, at a steady concentration at all times, or algae is almost certain to take over. Green water, in my opinion, is started by a small spike in ammonia in the tank, such as from excessive fish feeding or decaying plant matter or dead fish. Green water is not caused by too little or too much nitrate.


Good point, sorry about that. I have a 65watt light over it, that I run for 9 hours a day.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

George02 said:


> So green water could be caused by either over-dosing and under-dosing of NO3?


I tend to agree with Hoppy along these lines in reference to gw. However, the fact you have all other kinds of algae in there indicates your system is off.


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## George02 (Jan 11, 2007)

Bert H said:


> I tend to agree with Hoppy along these lines in reference to gw. However, the fact you have all other kinds of algae in there indicates your system is off.


Do you think doing a blackout and then switching to PPS Pro system would work?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Any fertilizing system that you follow well will work, whether it is EI, PPS, PPS pro, ADA, Flourish, or what. But, with that much light having the same concentration of CO2 in the water everytime the lights are on is very important. The concentration doesn't necessarily have to be the maximum, but it does have to be stable - the same every day.


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## George02 (Jan 11, 2007)

hoppycalif said:


> Any fertilizing system that you follow well will work, whether it is EI, PPS, PPS pro, ADA, Flourish, or what. But, with that much light having the same concentration of CO2 in the water everytime the lights are on is very important. The concentration doesn't necessarily have to be the maximum, but it does have to be stable - the same every day.


I understand the concept. And I had that balance achieved when I was using Seachem system. Unfortunately, that balance got disrupted when I switched to EI and I wish I knew why


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

George02 said:


> Unfortunately, that balance got disrupted when I switched to EI and I wish I knew why


Excuse me if I missed it in a prior post, but when you switched to EI, did the amounts dosed change? In other words, in ppm's of the individual parameters, did they change? Since your tank was stabilized at a given set of ppm's for individual ferts, if you drastically changed their levels suddenly, this could explain your problems. Also, fwiw, imo, whenever you do a major change to your tank, you should do a major water change.


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## George02 (Jan 11, 2007)

Bert H said:


> Excuse me if I missed it in a prior post, but when you switched to EI, did the amounts dosed change? In other words, in ppm's of the individual parameters, did they change? Since your tank was stabilized at a given set of ppm's for individual ferts, if you drastically changed their levels suddenly, this could explain your problems. Also, fwiw, imo, whenever you do a major change to your tank, you should do a major water change.


Bert, unfortunately, I never calculated the actual ppm difference for the switch from Seachem to EI. I'm pretty confident though that with EI I'm adding a lot more nutrients than with Seachem.
With Seachem I used to do 10-15% water changes every week and once I started using EI, I've been doing at least 50% changes once a week. I will calculate Nitrate and Phosphate levels after work today and post the numbers I get.


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## George02 (Jan 11, 2007)

OK, so here are my levels. Mind you, these numbers were taken this morning before I dosed the ferts

Nitrate: 5ppm
Phosphate: way past 10ppm

Could green water be caused by too much phosphate?


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

George02 said:


> OK, so here are my levels. Mind you, these numbers were taken this morning before I dosed the ferts
> 
> Nitrate: 5ppm
> Phosphate: way past 10ppm
> ...


Whether or not it's actually caused by that, imo, doesn't matter. What does matter is that your numbers are crazy. *If* that PO4 number is correct, I would definitely bring it down - with 5ppm NO3, I would have my PO4 in the 1-2 range. You might want to check the PO4 levels in your tap. You might be one of those folks with 2-3 out of the tap, in which case, you never had to add PO4 to your tank.  If your tap is less than 1, I would start with massive successive water changes to bring the PO4 down to more 'normal' levels. Then add 5-10ppm of NO3, and whatever other macros you're adding. Start there with EI or go to PPS dosing, if preferred.


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## George02 (Jan 11, 2007)

Bert,

my tap water contains levels of PO4 in more than 10ppm range. Are NO3 levels OK?


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Were you unhappy with the Seachem method of fert dosing? Was your tank healthy? If so, why change? Just playing devil's advocate here.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Before you accept the PO4 amount as being correct, be sure to calibrate the test kit. Those PO4 tests are not famous for being accurate.


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## George02 (Jan 11, 2007)

guaiac_boy said:


> Were you unhappy with the Seachem method of fert dosing? Was your tank healthy? If so, why change? Just playing devil's advocate here.


Seachem was kind of expensive compared to EI or PPS, that's the reason why I changed it. Basically, got sick of ordering 10 bottles every few months. But the tank was healthy with it.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

George02 said:


> Bert,
> 
> my tap water contains levels of PO4 in more than 10ppm range. Are NO3 levels OK?


Wow! I didn't know city waters were allowed to be that high.  If it were my tank, I would raise the NO3 to 10ppm.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

http://www.rwater.com/wqterms/wqterms.htm says the maximum limit for phosphate in drinking water is 5 ppm, which is about what I expected. For nitrate it is 10 ppm.


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