# Beginner cycling questions



## busymomv (May 25, 2014)

Hi all! I've got a 1 week old NPT tank w dirt substrate, gravel cap. Read Walstad's book and lots of info on this thread and have attempted her methods. 36 gal. tank heavily planted with 20 ish plant species mostly low-med light. Mix of slow and fast growers and some frog bit floating. No fish yet. Plants seem to be doing very well with noticeable growth. I've tested 0 ammonia and 0 nitrates and nitrites all week. 

I've read about the nitrogen cycle - though its tough to find info (other than this forum) on how it applies to dirted Walstad tanks. I know the tank is supposed to cycle, but I'm really confused about what I'm waiting for. An ammonia spike is the common first sign, right? But if plants use the ammonia, wouldn't / couldn't this have happened already? Or is it much too early since its only been 7 days? I thought the organic soil substrate had the bacteria necessary to get the tank "cycled". So I'm unsure of how I'll know when its cycled / safe to add fish. Also, can I add snails now to deal with some decaying leaves?

I greatly appreciate any clarification / education on this. Happy to provide more info on my tank specs if that helps answer my questions too. Thank you!


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

Hey busymomv, welcome to APC!



busymomv said:


> I've read about the nitrogen cycle - though its tough to find info (other than this forum) on how it applies to dirted Walstad tanks.


The nitrogen cycle happens in virtually every tank or body of water. But it occurs to different degrees depending on the inputs and outputs of nitrogen from the system. The nitrogen cycle is more of a concern in plantless tanks that have high fish loads. This is because the high fish load produces a lot of ammonia which is harmful to fish, it can burn gills and cause other types of damage. Therefore in a plantless tank you need a way to remove ammonia or detoxify it to nitrites and finally to nitrates. This is usually done by encouraging filter bacteria to grow. Filter bacteria facilitates the conversion of ammonia to nitrate to nitrate and therefore reduces the toxic effects of ammonia on the fish.

In a heavily planted tank plants use up a lot of the ammonia that is produced as a source of nitrogen (used for proteins/cell growth). This directly removes most of the ammonia that a tank produces and somewhat "breaks" the nitrogen cycle. The nitrogen cycle specifically refers to bacteria's role in converting ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. If there is no, or very little ammonia in the tank because the plants are using it up first then the nitrogen cycle is not as important to fish health as it is in plantless tanks. All the same kinds of bacteria will still grow in your tank, but they won't be as numerous since they have less ammonia and nitrite to use as food.



busymomv said:


> I know the tank is supposed to cycle, but I'm really confused about what I'm waiting for. An ammonia spike is the common first sign, right?


In a plantless tank you would be waiting for the bacteria to grow a large enough population to deal with normal levels of ammonia fish waste. This usually takes about a week and can be accelerated by adding a drop or two of non-scented ammonia cleaner to your tank to give the bacteria something to eat.

In fact, you can test the ability of the plants and the bacteria in your tank to remove ammonia by adding a drop or two of ammonia now, testing the water to see what the ammonia level is and then waiting a day and testing the water again for ammonia. If the reading drops significantly then you know your tank can deal with ammonia and it is safe to add fish.



busymomv said:


> But if plants use the ammonia, wouldn't / couldn't this have happened already?


Yes, plants use ammonia and reduce the amount bacteria have to eat, so yes the tank could have been ready to support fish a few days ago.



busymomv said:


> Or is it much too early since its only been 7 days? I thought the organic soil substrate had the bacteria necessary to get the tank "cycled". So I'm unsure of how I'll know when its cycled / safe to add fish.


Soil does have bacteria in it some of which can survive underwater and participate in the nitrogen cycle, but it isn't exposed to the water column like filter bacteria is and therefore it cannot really help to reduce ammonia toxicity to fish as much (if at all). It can definitely help seed the filter and other surfaces in the tank though.



busymomv said:


> Also, can I add snails now to deal with some decaying leaves?


You can add snails, but not snails that eat plants like apple snails.

In fact, Malaysian trumpet snails are often used to help aerate soil substrates since they tend to burrow during the daytime and come out at night.

*Why are your plant leaves decaying? Can you post photos of the dying leaves?* It may indicate that something is off.


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## busymomv (May 25, 2014)

Thank you SOOO much for your quick and thorough response, Zapins! That info was exactly what I was looking for!

Here is a pic of the tank (sorry for the reflections).








Here is a pic of the leaves decaying - this plant, which I can't remember the name of, is in the worst shape, although it is getting new leaves so I'm hoping it is just recovering from the shock of being submerged. Wysteria initially dropped a lot of leaves too, but is doing great now. But, I have never done this before, so I'd love to know if there is something more significant going on...








Gratefully.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

No problem!

The tank is looking good so far.


The dying leaves are hard to see. I'm not sure if that is a stem plant or if it comes from the sword plant (a baby?). Often times sword plants are grown emersed and when submersed they lose their round leaves and grow longer sword like leaves which are adapted to submersed conditions. That seems likely given the newly planted tank.


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## busymomv (May 25, 2014)

Yes, it is a stem plant. Sadly I can't get a good shot from the side because the tank is between two walls of built in booksheves. The ozelot sword seemed to be grown emerged, but has adjusted very well. I stuffed the bunch of stems that are dropping leaves (in the picture) right next to it, so its hard to see. Anyway, I'm so grateful for your advice and the lesson on cycling for this type of tank. I'm very excited that we can get some fish soon!


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

The stem may not be an aquatic plant. The leaves looked serrated which is unusual for aquatic plants. If it is in an easy to move place you could move it and take a photo of it, then we could ID it for you.

Be sure to post pictures of the fishies once you get them


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