# Green Water questions



## redstrat (Apr 3, 2006)

Over the last 2 weeks I've been battling green water in my tank. Its a 75gallon with 260watts of CF lighting and a temporary DIY CO2 set up. Anyway it all started after I did a small filter clean out, so I'm afraid I may have disterbed the bacterial colonly. I've also noticed some minimal GSA on the front glass so I would assume that I'm low on PO4. I currently dose flourish, excel, and leaf zone which is 3% K20. I have a test kit which says I have no measurable nitrites and around 10ppm nitrates. The tank has moderate plant mass. 

I am in the middle of trying the "willow method" with very minimal results so far (granted I just started seeing roots 3days ago). I've been trying to avoid doing a 3-5day blackout because most of my plants are pretty young and are just starting to look pretty healthy, plus I really like to at least see the tank on a daily basis. I'm just wondering what could really be the source of the GW and what I could to to prevent/control it long term. I'm afraid if I do something like buy a diatom filter it will just return after I clear it up because something is still out of whack. 

One other thing I've noticed sometimes the GW is more of a whitish color and other times its neon green, it seems to vary day to day. Also about a week ago it was so bad I could only see an inch or so into the tank, now I can see the back but it doesn't seem to be improving much more. Could it clear up on its own?

Sorry about the mile long post, i just figured I'd give as much info as I can because I'm at a loss with this one. Any ideas?


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

A big part of your problem is your high light. At the 3.5 wpg on a tank that size you really need pressurized co2. The plants must have everything they need to grow or the algae will. It also doesn't sound like you have all your ferts covered either. 

With a high light tank there is very little room for error and algae will tank hold if something isn't in balance. 

I would forget the willow method. It's not a long-term approach and is no different IMO then stuff your tank full of hungry plants.

A UV sterilizer would be your best option IMO. It will clear up the GW permently and once connected there is nothing to do. It also kills pathegons in the water that can lead to many fish diseases. 

I had a bout with GW about 7 months ago and got the UV and it's been running 24/7 since then and my water is so clear you can't see water. Some will say the UV covers over the problem, but in a highlight tank it gives you a little wiggle room and with your lighting you need it.


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## LilLou (Apr 23, 2006)

I also have a 75 gallon tank with pressurized CO2 and have the same problem.

I got a couple of 5 micron water filters (10,000 gal rating) and a housing from work and I am going to be putting this inline with the CO2 reactor tonight to try to filter this stuff out. Crossing my fingers that by morning I will see some inprovement.

I have a 260 W fixture as well with the 50/50 10K/actnitic lights which are probably part of the culprit since the plants really cant use that wavelength but the algae seems to love it. 67K/10K light on the way via overnight with a 2 timer powerstrip. My plan is to run 1 set of lights for 8 hours and start the second set of lights 2-3 hours behind this for the same 8 hours. Giving a peak light of 5-6 hours a day with a 130W lead in and out.

Hopefully that does the trick. GW is very frustrating 

As far as running the UV I read some where that it will oxidize the ferts we put in the water.

Lou


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

_As far as running the UV I read some where that it will oxidize the ferts we put in the water._

That's far too general a statement. It doesn't oxidize ferts. It has the ability to unchelate some forms of FE, but if you dose regularly it makes no difference. Besides you could put the UV on a timer and only run it only at nite. Believe me I've been using one for 8 months and my plants are growing great.


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## redstrat (Apr 3, 2006)

its good to hear another veiwpoint on the UV subject, i've heard it was a bad thing for planted tanks but never really thought there could be a whole lot of truth to that arguement. I've thought about purchasing a UV sterilizer in the past, mainly for its effect on pathogens but I've never delt with GW in the aquarium before. I'll probably buy one and run it with a timer but I just can't afford one at the moment. 

Lou, please keep me up to date as far as how your method affects your GW problem or if you find any other methods to take care of this problem. 

I'm working on getting a more well rounded fertilizing routine but I dont know where to get everything, or what I really need. I have fish in the tank so I'm not all that concerned about adding nitrogen, unfortunately my test kit doesnt test for phosphate so I have no idea where i stand there other than I have some GSA so I woudl assume PO4 is to low. I know the Fleets Enema is a cheap solution for that, I just haven't got around to picking that up yet. Is the fleets enema the same as the fleets phospha-soda drink additive? What other ferts shoudl I focus on that I'm not allready dosing? I guess the more important question is which one could most affect the GW problem? 

I think attacking the water chemistry would be the best long term solution as I plan to add a pressurized CO2 system late this summer, the DIY is just temporary and actually working pretty well for what it is. I've also allready adjusted my lighting schedule so I have 130Ws on for 12hrs a day and then it bumps up to 260Ws for about 4hrs. I have a question about this though, I'd like to have the 4hr window late in the 12hr period, which woudl be the time I am usually home and can enjoy the tank. Could this be problematic, even though there will be approx 30-60min time that it goes back to 130w before completely shutting off?

By the way thanks so much for all the quick replys I really appreciate it.


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## LilLou (Apr 23, 2006)

Well as of last night the filter cartridge had a green tinge to it, unfortunately I woke up late this morning and didn't get a chance to look at the tank as I had to literally run out of the house. I will post back when I get home later. I also shut the lights down as well as the blue LED night lights. Only ambient lighting today for the tank.

As far as what I read it can be found here:

http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Articles/Plant_Pests.htm

And you were correct it only oxidizes the traces which most are cheleates.

Lou


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## redstrat (Apr 3, 2006)

Does anyone know of some good nutrient sucking FAST growing plants I could use? I know stem plants are good but does anyone have any favorites for this purpose. 
I've had very good results with bacopa in the past
but what about ROTALA ROTUNDIFOLIA, or any of the other rotala plants???


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## 247Plants (Mar 23, 2006)

Any Hygro will do....Ive had tremendous growth with difformis and its really easy to get.....Cabomba works well......Let me be the first to recommend Hornwort to ya....probably one of the best for sucking excess nutrients from the water...


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

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## redstrat (Apr 3, 2006)

Thanks for the detailed explanation Tom, I really apreciate it. I have been playing with my ferts though throughout this experience and I have to say my plants haven't grown better since I started this tank lol I just wish I could see them better. Any Ideas on at least reducing this plague untill I can get a UV or diatom filter. I'm guessing I caused the NH4 spike when I messed with the filter a couple weeks ago. Thats never happened before but I must have done something wrong there. Could the GW go away on its own once the filter gets a chance to restablish itself? What if I reduce the light untill I can get a UV sterilizer or go pressurized on the CO2?? Any thoughts? 

Also will major water changes just prolong the GW and waste ferts and dechlorinator?


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

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## LilLou (Apr 23, 2006)

1 shot of algae killer two nights ago killed the algae
Last night added some water clarifier in conjunction with 5 micron water filter and green water is gone. Funny thing after the clarifier was added filter cartridge turned brown instead of pea soup green
Changed the bulbs also to a 6700K/10000K combo

Hopefully it doesn't come back.

Did a ammonia test last night and if there was any in there the test didn't show it

Does NH3 cause the bloom too Tom?

If not the kick in the butt of the whole thing is that NH4 only starts showing up in the water with a PH below 6.8. Ammonium (NH4) < 6.8 PH < Ammonia (NH3) 

To get good plant growth you have to use CO2 to drop your PH 1 point below degassed measurement, which in some cases brings the PH below that point. So the introduction of CO2 assists in bringing this on. 

My PH now goes from 6.5 to 6.3 during the day when the plants suck up the CO2 in the water.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

_A good bit of mulm added from an established tasnk, adding as many plants as will fit from the start, good nutrients, CO2 etc right from day one will solve the GW issues for new set ups using higher light._

Yes, I agree with all of that, I also think many people don't realize the impact fish load has on algae. Not saying this is the case here, but not only do more fish, mean more waste, but when you have a large fish load people feed more which in turn becomes even more waste. There's a balance between plant mass, light and the size of one's biofilter that will keep this in check. If one must have a large fish load then they need an extremely large filtering system, possiblly a sump to bring it in line.


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## redstrat (Apr 3, 2006)

My best guess based on the info everyone has provided thus far is,
When I serviced my filter a couple weeks ago I disrupted if not destroyed the bacterial colony that was there and this upset the balance and started increasing NH4 in the water column. I dont have a TON of plants and the ones I do have were not in the best of shape at that time so they couldn't keep up with the production of NH4. Plus I was lacking CO2 and other nutrients because I was lacking a well rounded fert regimen. So NH4 kept on rising. My test kit doesnt test for NH4 so I was clueless because nitrates and nitrites seemed normal and steady 10ppm and 0ppm respectively. The willow method took way to long and I later found out my fish were ripping off all the roots that were forming so it didnt work to absorb the NH4 either. So all of these things considered plus this tank isn't that old to start with is the perfect recipe for GW. My guess as to why it has gotten better and worse off and on throughout this is some things I have done have worked and inadvertently it helped the plants uptake of NH4.

As of yesterday I have started a more well rounded fert regimen including MG Calcium PO4 KO2 and Fe dosing according to the fertilator. I have reworked the DIY CO2 and I am achieving about 1-2bubbles per sec, I am in the process of building a reactor to help dissolve more of this CO2 and hopefully bring me up to between 15 and 30ppm CO2. I have also cut my lighting back to 130watts 12hrs a day with a 4hr blast of 260 total watts of 6700K. I plan to increase the lighting back to the full 260 12hrs a day when I get a UV sterilizer and go pressurized on my CO2. I have since yesterday noticed a small change in the GW so I think I'll just have to be patient for now and hope it continues to get better. 
I was thinking of buying something like CYCLE or Stress Zyme to aide in recovering the nitrifying bacteria in my filter although I was thinking that I might be at the peak of the NH4 spike because its coming up on 3 weeks since I messed up my filter. 

If it doesn't continue to clear up on its own I may try one of the water clarifier chemical methods to at least get a jump on the GW. 

Thank you to everyone who replied to this post I really appreciate all the advice and tips. I'll try to keep this updated with any further success or failures with this problem if anyone is interested.


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## LilLou (Apr 23, 2006)

The ammonia test kits will test for both ammonia and ammonium.

I would use the cycle or if you can find it the bio spira from marineland just make sure thelater is refrigerated.


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

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## redstrat (Apr 3, 2006)

So basically you think that my bacteria colony should be completely fine by now and if I were to mechanically remove the GW via diatom filter it could be gone for good? Or a UV with a good mechanical filter for a couple days? Or even a couple good waterchanges in close succession? All of this combined with more plants, and less light (roughly 1.7wpg compared to the 3.5wpg), for the current DIY CO2 set up, untill I go pressurized?

my main concern is to take care of this for the long term untill I can afford to go pressurized hopefully late this summer. 

Thanks again for all the info I really appreciate it. Any excuse for more plants is a good one for me.


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## LilLou (Apr 23, 2006)

Looks like the green water might me coming back as of last night. ALso got a .25ppm on the ammonia test. Frustrating to say the least. I think the algaecide was a bad idea looking back as it probab;y doesn't help an of the good bacteria or the plants. But patience is sometimes short when I get home from work.
I will check tonight when I get home and try to post if it has indeed come back.

All the plants seem to be growing like there's no tomorrow so I don't nkow what gives. Maybe I should let the NO3 get low so the plants will start using the NH4 more


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## redstrat (Apr 3, 2006)

I'm definitely not trying to speak to soon and say I've cured my GW but I figured I should give a little update to my situation. 
Over the last week or so I have adjusted my fert routine to something a little more well rounded and more frequent. The other day I think it was wednesday this week I did my first 50% water change since I changed my fert routine and it initially only improved the water clarity by a little bit. I could see maybe 8" compared the the 4" or so inches before the WC. Anyway afterwards I dosed my tank with ferts using the APC fertilator. 24hrs passed and the lights came on the next morning and I looked at the tank and noticed I could see clearly probably 12"-16" into the tank. Another 24hrs passed and this morning I can see the back of the tank pretty clearly (its 75gal so thats 18") but when I look from the side I can see almost 24"!! I haven't had water this clear in weeks!!    

Anyway I just figured I would give a little update and see what everyone has to say. I have been trying to save up for a diatom filter or UV and it doesn't look like I'm going to be able to do that for another 2 weeks. If this is going to clear up on its own I'll probably just put the money into a Filstar XP2 and scrap my HOB power filter, in hopes to keep more CO2 in the tank. I haven't been able to go pressurized yet so every precious bubble of CO2 from my DIY unit needs to stay in the tank.


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## redstrat (Apr 3, 2006)

***********ANOTHER UPDATE************
It may be safe to say now that I have finally cleared my tank of the hidious GW. After one solid week of EI dosing my tank has cleared and seems to be staying that way. Well I can't really say it was true EI dosing though because I basically forced a nitrogen deficiency in the tank by dosing plenty of K, PO4, Ca, Mg, and Flourish. I kept dosing this way untill my plants started to show signs of Nitrogen Def. and the water was pretty clear too, a couple of days really. 

It seems to me that my plants weren't taking up enough Nitrogen from the water column because I hadn't really started dosing ferts yet. Once I started dosing correctly the GW started to clear and some clearing started after 24hrs. IMO it seemed that my tank was really lacking Potassium and the more I added the more dramatic the results were.

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next couple weeks to see if it comes back now that I'm dosing Ca(NO3) according to EI with everything else. I'm just really happy to finally be able to enjoy my tank again.  

I'm currious could this also be a solution for a planted pond with GW, toss in some K and let the plants suck the Accumulated Nitrogen away from the GW???


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