# Fish need it lighting



## kwc1974

I know some of you have the MH lighting from fishneedit.com

What are your impressions now that these lights have been up and running. Every review that I have seen has been when the light was first turned on.

I like the interlocking feature with the T5 HO lights as well, has anyone done this yet. The shear fact that I could get a complete lighting system with (2) 150W MH & (4) 54W T5 HO for under $450 is very tempting.


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## ashappard

I have been using 2 of the 150W MH pendants since around January 2008 and like them very much.
Also, the bulbs they sell are very cheap but are working fine. Compared to more expensive bulbs that I use they hold their own. I've been using the 8000K 150W bulb for 6 months now, and the 10000K bulb is also nice. The 6500K bulb is too yellow, but I think that is typical for all of them. I just dont like the color. I wish I had a PAR meter to take comparative readings between my fishneedit/coralife/ADA bulbs.

I wish I could buy more of the 150W MH pendants. Last I checked, they had been unavailable for quite a while.


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## kwc1974

I know about the unavaiability, but he we site says new stock on Dec 15

Also the site has been updated to advertise the interlocking feature.


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## taekwondodo

I am using their 8K bulbs and love them...

Brighter, better color... It _appears_ to have the same "white" as the 10Ks (e-bay) I had when looking at the lights, but in addition the reds are redder and I see more yellows off the plants. (I'm trying to say, the light ain't yellower, but gives better yellows and reds - does that make sense?).

My plants are enjoying the change as well as the thread algae  I had an outbreak I'm just now (I hope) getting under control with the change in intensity and color (It was like "WHAM" - where did that come from???).

- Jeff


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## Akaizhar

What about his T5-HO lights?


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## TNguyen

If you do, let me know. I want to see it!


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## kwc1974

If I do, I will let you know


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## rwong2k

I've owned the 150 watt MH lights for almost a year now and it's a pretty nice unit, unlike my coralife unit it doesn't with a fan, so that's my only concern as it does get quite hot, otherwise it's fine and I just ordered another 150 watt and it should arrive today

raymond


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## ashappard

raymond (or anybody else) - since you have an older fishneedit and now a new one: can you comment on the new ballasts? I think they changed the new units to electronic ballast. Is that correct, and what do you think about them?


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## Bunbuku

I like the looks of this one!

It resembles the Arcadia for a fraction of the price http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-55907585196829_2040_5197538


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## houseofcards

I'm kinda on the fence whether I should try these lights (MH Pendant) or stick with the Aqua Medics. Anyone know how they compare (noise level, quality, hanging setup)?


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## Bunbuku

Their regular price is not that much cheaper than the AM, but the sale price :faint:!! 
On the blown up picture, I noticed that their reflector is smooth. My AM has sort of a cobblestone pattern. Their bulb holder is metallic? The AM has a spring loaded ceramic one. Ballast - the old AM has a German made magnetic ballast no fan. I believe the new AM ones are US made Reeflex ballast with fan. From the picture this one looks like it may be electronic? If it was encased in brushed aluminum, it would remind me of the ADA Solar I ballast.


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## houseofcards

Thanks for that detailed analysis Bunbuku. I think it's probably going to be "You get what you pay for" in terms of quality as fishneedit also sells on ebay on although has rating is all positive several members have stated that the quality of the light could be better. But given the price is the quality difference worth it. I also see there are several AM lights (i.e. Oceanlight, Spacelight) I need to contact Aqua Medic since I'm alittle confused on the actual difference.


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## ashappard

my older fishneedit lights do have spring loaded ceramic bulb holders. As far as quality, I do have better quality MH pendants but I'm not nervous using fishneedit MH lights anymore since mine have done really well. I'll have to take a look at the reflectors - I think they may be the hammered/bumpy type but cant remember now.

the noise level is typical for a magnetic ballast, not so bad and actually quieter than the 250W ballasts I already have from another manufacturer. fishneedit says they are using electronic ballasts now and I hope someone can chime in on the quality of those.

I'd like to mention that even though their 150W MH bulbs are very cheap, I like them a lot. They hold their own against the coralife and ADA bulbs I have and at a much lower price.

I've never tried their T5 lights (bunbuku's pic), only the 150W MH pendants.


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## Bunbuku

I have always wondered what the differences were between electronic and magnetic ballasts. The statement below implies that you get less light output with the electronic ballast.

Quote from AquaCave http://www.aquacave.com/150w-ocean-electronicbr-metal-halide-ballast-brby-aqua-medic-1170.html

"Ocean Electronic Ballast is an energy conscious electronic ballast that starts softly to ensure extremely long bulb life and is now standard equipment in our lighting pendants and systems (except 70w HQI and 1000w Mogul). With these new ballasts, 20K bulbs maintain a deeper and more intense blue while mid-Kelvin colors stay cooler without the small red-shift of the characteristic overdriving associated with our Ocean magnetic ballast. Subtly less intense, in terms of lumens produced, but a softer approach that appeals to those for whom blue color rendering and bulb life are primary concerns."


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## ashappard

Bulb life is supposed to be longer (like your quote mentions) but I cant really speak to that. I dont think I've ever had an electronic ballast for MH lighting. I'm perfectly fine with magnetic ballasts for MH lighting -- I have a set of 250W ballasts that have been working for about 7 years. 

I just wonder how long the new electronic fishneedit MH ballasts will run before quitting.


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## Bunbuku

To answer the noise question, I will speak only about the original version of the AM 150 watt MH fixture and ballast.

I took my SPL(sound pressure level) meter :nerd: and I placed the microphone *6"* from the ballast and took measurements. The SPL was 40 dB with peaks at 45 dB A-weighted. Not exactly scientific but that is the best I can do without an anechoic chamber.

According to the manual typical A weighted SPLs:

Whisper at 5ft is 32 dB
Typical residence is 48 dB; at night 42 dB
Typical large office is 58 dB
Normal speech at 1ft is 68 dB
Vacuum cleaner at 10ft is 72 dB

So unless you have the a dog's hear abilities or use the ballast as a pillow, you are unlikely to hear the hum under normal circumstances, especially if the ballast is inside you stand.


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## eklikewhoa

I ordered 3 of the 150w 8000k bulbs to try in my new fixture... hope it's nice.


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## houseofcards

Bunbuku
Thanks for that. I might have to put my ballast up somewhere (not enclosed) so that gives me some good info. I wonder how the new AM Spacelight EX compares which is slowly replacing the OceanLight series. 

Eklikewhoa
What brand bulbs did you order? ADA


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## ashappard

eklikewhoa said:


> I ordered 3 of the 150w 8000k bulbs to try in my new fixture... hope it's nice.


did you order fishneedit's bulbs or some other manufacturer?

the 8000Ks they sell are pretty nice, maybe just a tad too green to my eyes. I like the 10000K, and dont care much for the looks of the 6700K, too yellow / green to me. For the price they are good bulbs. All three certainly grow plants well and hold up reasonably over time.

I have been running a coralife 10000K next to a fishneedit 8000K for a while and it does _look_ like the coralife is brighter now, where they both started out about the same. but I can replace a fishneedit bulb 3 times for the price of one coralife. Dont even get me started on the price of ADA bulbs.


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## eklikewhoa

Well initially I was gonna bit the bullet and get the ADA bulbs but for half the price of one I got 3 of the fishneedit 8000k's to try out. 

Right now I am running the 10k coralife and hate it... the blue tint kills all yellow and reds in the tank. 

If I don't like it then I'm gonna go with the ADA bulbs.


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## eklikewhoa

Got the bulbs in... 

Gonna have a buddy come over with his ADA 8000k bulbs to compare once these burn in. 

Overall, the color is a bit nicer and easier on the eyes then the 10k.


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## supersmirky

Great....keep us updated. Definitely worth checking out for the price!


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## eklikewhoa

A little over a week's worth of 10hr a day burn in time and I have to say that I really like the color. 

So far it's well worth it!


Now I have bought cheapie bulbs off ebay before just to fiddle with some of the DIY retros I've done and the packaging for the FishNeedIt.com bulbs were exactly the same. The bulbs had a slightly off color from the rating when compared to other bulbs of it's kelvin (10,000k/14000k)


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## ashappard

I got some 10000K HQI bulbs from fishneedit recently 
and here's what the packaging looked like:


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## kwc1974

Got the bulbs as well

so far I do refer the color of the 8000k, and for the price...well you can't beat it.


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## ShortFin

For the T5, can you use a glass cover when using the mounting leg? From what few pictures I've seen, it looks like you can't.

For the MH, how far and high does it extends using the leg mount?


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## ashappard

the MH leg mounts dont seem like they would get it too high 
above the tank but I've never used them.

I've always used the suspension cables that come with fishneedit lights. 
makes for a nice look I think. Also, it makes for easier access to the entire 
tank without moving the light which is convenient if you are in it alot like I am.

I hang mine at 8" over the center of 17" deep tanks (24" square)
nice coverage.


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## ShortFin

Suspending the lights from the ceiling sure looks nice, but somehow I don't like to do it. If anything, it will be hanging from a rod like how ADA does it. I'm looking if I can just use the leg mount.

What would be your guestimate if you were to use the leg mount?


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## ashappard

I have 2 new fishneedit 150W MH pendants that I still need to unpack and install.
I'll put the legs on one and snap a pic this weekend.

while I'm on the subject - I've been using these for a while and this last set has the electronic ballasts and the pendants look a little different, the fishneedit logo is drilled into the aluminum


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## Jdinh04

Helpful thread guys! I am looking to get the 150w MH or the 4x24w T5Ho for my 34g cube aquarium.

As far as the price goes, you really can't go wrong with these lights. I heard they will replace the lights for you for FREE if you have any problems.


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## ashappard

heres some pics of the legs on a new fixture, 
and a bit about the electronic ballasts.

I dont care much for the legs, suspension looks better.
legs raise pendant about 6" but it will vary depending on how they are adjusted.



















the electronic ballasts work fine, start quieter and dont jolt the bulb so hard.
typical for an EB, I just wonder how long they will last.
note the new pendant --> ballast connector style vs the old one. hmmm.



















and the logo is drilled into the pendant. Also the reflector is changed from 
a hammered reflector to a curved mirror type reflector. wish I had a PAR meter
so I could compare efficiency










.


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## ashappard

*connection failure*

friday, a couple hours after lights on - 
went to check my tanks and found one MH out, smoky smell :



















the pendant had been in service for over a year. Its repaired now and back in service.
theres not much in there to burn except wire which is nice, also its cool how removing
both endcaps of the pendant breaks it down completely.

its not nice that I had a connection failure after 1 year.


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## Bunbuku

Wow that was bad and a fire hazard! Was this another fishneedit light with the bad connection? Their QC must not be that great. Did your new one have similar defects?


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## ashappard

not really a fire hazard IMO, and bunbuku this is an older pendant.
just looks like a dodgy connection that melted. yes, thats bad QC

it popped the fuse in the magnetic ballast, 
the event was short lived but violent enough to the terminal strip.

but whats going to burn except the wire and terminals?
suspended 5' from steel cables, all metal enclosure - a lot safer than an oak hood I have.

the new ones are running, I'm not really going to check them unless theres a problem.
I dont consider that a gamble.

I'm not happy about the failure of course, but I've had expensive MH and PC fixtures do the same thing.
just thought I'd show a bit of the ugly since I'm always going on about the
fishneedit fixtures being a bargain etc.

over a long time span,
I've had similar issues with coralife / aquamedic / other more expensive stuff
I've had a icecap ballast smoke before, and I think they are great.

yes, manufacturers : I am properly grounded. 
and know how to wire stuff up  

assuming that more $$$ can eliminate the possibility of catastrophic failure is a bad plan.
being ready for it is better. this failure took the tank out of service for about 3 hrs.
it would have been out longer if I'd not been home, but fire hazard? nope. not this one.


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## ashappard

back to the new fixtures -

I dont like the new reflectors. 
there are some bands of variable intensity, 
with the hammered reflector the spread was more even.

I'm also not so sure about the new ballasts
but they have only been running a few days so we'll see.

they are quieter and draw less power.
color output of the bulb seems different? maybe my eyes or poor memory.
its hard for me to compare those things unless the difference is large.


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## ShortFin

Excellent review. Thanks for the pics. It looks like it is 6 inches high and 10 inches in with the legs.

It's too bad about your old fixture. Glad that you were able to fixed it. More reason to make sure you have GFI outlet.


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## ashappard

ShortFin said:


> It's too bad about your old fixture.


yeah thats the way it goes sometimes. I had a coralife fixture release a *lot* of smoke once and I all of a sudden became wary of them. Then I realized I have 9 others made by them that have never given me a problem over a period of many years.

I have 4 fishneedit MH pendants in operation now - if another one fails then I'll start to worry.


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## Bunbuku

ashappard:

Do you think that some some of the differences you are seeing is due to the magnetic vs electronic ballasts in the new units?


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## ashappard

the color temp differences, yes.
even different brands of EB will make metal halides show different color temp.

heres an example -

the fishneedit magnetic ballast drives a coralife 10000K bulk at a more reddish/yellow color.
the icecap EB drives it at a more white color.
the difference is not drastic, but you can tell easily enough.

the fishneedit magnetic ballast drives the fishneedit 8000K bulb more green 
than the fishneedit EB. with the electronic ballast its closer to a white color and reds 
seem to come out better. 

this is all things being equal, where the fixture and bulb do not change, just the ballast.
but they all grow plants very well. after a longish hiatus from metal halide, 
I think I'm hooked again.

yes I know you only need 2-3 wpg to grow plants. I harp that all the time.
but I like the yield and appearance under metal halide and it keeps me on my toes
from a stability standpoint. so more of an excuse to tend to the tanks daily.


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## ShortFin

That's interesting. I thought only bulbs from different manufacturer render different spectrum. I didn't know that the ballast also play a role.


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## foofooree

Any updates on how the fixtures are holding up?


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## ashappard

I have 4 in operation. Doing great. The magnetic ballasts, they will probably last forever. Not so sure about the electronic ones they ship now but they do still work for me after 6+ months.


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## foofooree

Thanks! Do you think that one of the 150W fixtures would give me enough spread on a 3 foot tank? I'm not sure about how much the reflectors spread the light, so I'm considering doing 2x70W instead.


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## ashappard

no, probably not. 2x70W would be better for spread.
for 3' tank you would have to get the 1x150W light pretty far above the surface to reach the corners and then intensity would be lower, spillover would be high.

and speaking of spread, I should revisit my comment earlier about the newer reflectors.
I dont know what they are shipping now, but the most recent ones I got are not so great.
bands of variable intensity are irritating, I like the spread from the older hammered reflectors better.

my last two MH fixtures were reef optix 3 pendants. one used and one new. much better light spread. I'm still a fan of the fishneedit bulbs. For the price, I cant complain at all. plenty bright, and with a decent ballast they last a long time.

I think in summary, if I had it to do all over again - I'd spend $$ on nice but not high end pendants, read some reviews about reflector quality (reefers are on top of this) and then use icecap ballasts or something along that line. I'd keep the fishneedit bulbs though. I really like their 10000Ks driven by an icecap ballast. for the money I save on bulbs (I have 6MH pendants running now) I can afford to buy nice ballasts and keep the fishneedit ballasts as spares.

I am surprised, after getting back into MH that I dont have more heat issues.
being in a basement helps, and fans across open top tanks in the summer helps.
my electricity costs have actually gone down, I'm using less watts for higher intensity.

once I got dosing under control, stability isn't much of an issue either.


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## foofooree

Are they not worth getting simply because of the reflectors? Do you think there is a way to modify/ replace them? Do they make the tank brighter in the middle, or what? Sorry about all the questions haha


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## ashappard

the best way to describe it without taking a photo of the spread - is 'banding' - uneven intensity. In some places it is very bright and then suddenly darker. You can see the bands on bare substrate, the change in intensity is very noticeable. I prefer a more even spread without the bands. At the distance my light hangs, the bands are large and there are only a few of them. The brightest band is not in the middle. I really should take a pic of it to demonstrate... You could replace the reflector, yes. But for the added cost? you would have to ask yourself if it is worth it. I can say the the fishneedit fixtures do come apart very easily, so it wouldnt be difficult if you like working on or retrofitting light systems.

if you still are considering fishneedit pendants, dont let me discourage you. I can grow plants equally well with both of their reflectors and I think the pendants will last a long time. I just like the older style reflector better. As far as a budget MH goes, they are good. To make fishneedit MH into a 'great' fixture - change reflector and ballast - then they arent too economical. you would end up spending as much (or more) money unless you can get a sweet deal on a ballast and reflector. If you know some reefers that is always a possibility, catch one trading up or selling off systems piecemeal.


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## foofooree

Thanks for answering all of my questions!
But I have two more, how high is your fixture, and does raising it higher decrease, or increase the banding problem?


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## ashappard

8" above the surface is where I keep my MH lights.
the banding issue is always there at any height, but I have to admit that I have not tried very many heights. After it gets so high off the tank then spillover is high and intensity is too low to be useful. Too close to the water, and it's in the way when I plant/trim or in danger of getting wet from a splash.


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## foofooree

Ok. Thanks again man.
I think that I will most likely buy a pair. I hope the banding isn't too bad..


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## foofooree

Apparently they switched back to the old reflectors?!
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/98702-mh-choose-my-91l-2.html#post964564


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## ashappard

thats better. Those hammered reflectors give a more even spread.


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