# Alternatives Plantex CSM+B



## TonyV2 (Oct 16, 2006)

I looking for an alternative to Greg Watson's Plantex CSM+B because of it's copper content. I know it is only 0.10% but I'm dosing a tank with shrimp and I'm looking for something with as little copper as possible.:fear:

*Anyone know of a similar product with less or no copper at all?*


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## bigstick120 (Mar 8, 2005)

Flourish or TMG


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

Just an FYI, "TMG" refers to "Tropica Master Grow," and the product is no longer called that... it's now called "Tropica Aquacare Plant Nutrition."

And of course Flourish is Seachem Flourish.


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## TonyV2 (Oct 16, 2006)

Are Flourish & TMG trace mixes?


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

TonyV2 said:


> Are Flourish & TMG trace mixes?


Yes, Fe and traces.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

If you make the switch from Plantex CSM+B you may find you have to supplement some additional iron. I stopped the Plantex CSM+B for about a month and dosed Flourish for my traces and found I needed to add additional iron to my tank. Just something to be aware of


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## redstrat (Apr 3, 2006)

MatPat said:


> If you make the switch from Plantex CSM+B you may find you have to supplement some additional iron. I stopped the Plantex CSM+B for about a month and dosed Flourish for my traces and found I needed to add additional iron to my tank. Just something to be aware of


I'll second this statement, I also have to dose additional Iron with Flourish.


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## bigstick120 (Mar 8, 2005)

I dose extra iron with flourish as well, if not my downoi turns white!


Does the copper in the CSM have that adverse effect on shrimp? Its a pretty small mount from what I understand. I think you are safe as long as you are changing water weekly and dont let it build up


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## dhavoc (Mar 17, 2006)

CSM has a very low amount of copper. I use EI on my 120g and the shrimp (wild cherries) have no problem with it. i do weekly water changes (50% or more) and plants (and green water) are doing very well. i wouldnt use it with say CRS shrimp (no ferts at all in that tank) just to be safe but cherries seem to be oblivious to it.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Plants do need Cu. The requirement is about 1/10th of Fe concentration. 
People have reported accidents of large overdosing of CSM without any negative reaction on shrimp population.


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## ringram (Jan 10, 2005)

How does one explain the dead and destruction of shrimp in an otherwise healthy planted tank? People have reported that Cu can be toxic to shrimp and it would explain the reason some people are unable to keep them alive (myself included). CSM, if I'm not mistaking, contains a small amount of Cu, so pardon me if I'm confused.


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

No, you are right that copper is toxic in high enough concentrations...however there are many things (that we understand and don't understand) that could kill shrimp.


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## Urkevitz (Oct 26, 2004)

My fear is that the copper will kill the juvenile shrimp, or prevent reproduction.
Wouldn't the newborn shrimp be most susceptible to copper poisoning??


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

I can tell you that I have done heavy plantex dosing in my tank with cherry shrimp and their population was out of control until I added tetras (which ate the babies).

By heavy dosing, I had a solution made up of 3tbs/500mL and dosed at 1mL/5g

lets work this out 
If I remember correctly 1tbs plantex=15grams, so...

3tbs/500mL= (3*15)/500=45g/500mL= 45000mg/0.5L=90,000ppm plantex
Plantex=0.1% Cu so the solution is 90ppm copper

5gallons=~19L=19000mL

So dosing 1mL of my solution into 5g it will result in ~ 5ppb copper

...assuming I did didn't make a stupid mistake LOL.


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## Urkevitz (Oct 26, 2004)

Sounds good, I am going to give CSM a try. I have a bag that I never used.


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