# Seachem Flourite



## Sharp019

Hi, I was just wondering if anybody has had any experience with this substrate. Is it true what the company claims on their site that you never need to replace it? Some pictures of some tanks with seachem flourite would be nice to see. what are your thoughts on it?


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## joshvito

here are some of my thoughts on the Seachem products.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showpost.php?p=550289&postcount=4

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I used Seachem Flourite successfully with larger leafed plants for 4 years before breaking down the tank to move it.
here are some photos
http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/friendemail.php/19839


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## Andy Ritter

My 75 gallon tank has had the original Seachem Flourite in it since 1997, and it still seems to be fine to me. You can read about the tank and see lots of pictures by going to my journal (there's a link below my signature). Keep in mind that even though the tank sat in storage from 2000 until 2008, the tank always had water and plants in it (but no fish), with nothing done to the Flourite during that time. Basically, it's been in the tank and wet for the last 13 years.

The best that I can tell, Flourite doesn't appear to break down (at least if it does, it must not be much), so it is possible that Seachem's claims that it never needs to be replaced could be true. Of course, you could say that about gravel also. However, one thing definitely different between Flourite and gravel is that whenever you pull up a plant from Flourite, the roots seem to literally attach themselves to it. I've never seen that in my tank with plain gravel. I couldn't tell you if that is a good trait or not; it's just something that I have observed.

Some words of caution though about Flourite: sharp edges. It is referred to as a "Fracted Porous Clay Substrate". Fracted means broken, and broken means sharp edges on every single piece. I really enjoy Corydoras catfish, but I have noticed that the barbels on mine have gotten damaged from digging around in the Flourite. I hate that for them, and I hope that they're not in pain (they don't appear to be, and other than shorter barbels than what they had when I got them, they appear to be healthy). I also have Dwarf Chain Loaches, SAEs, a Black Line Sand Goby, and a Bristlenose Pleco that all also hang out on the bottom, and I can't tell that it has affected them at all. If you are concerned about anything happening to your bottom feeders, then I would have to suggest looking into other options for substrate.

So many people make comments here on APC about ADA Aquasoil that makes it sound like the greatest thing since sliced bread for growing plants. However, I have also seen people comment that it starts breaking down after a period of time (depends on who you talk to - I've seen as little as a year to more than five years).

If you research substrates, you're going to find that many different people have many different opinions (pretty much like everything else in life, right). 

Good luck making your decision, and I hope that I've helped.

Andy


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## exv152

I use the onyx sand, and the regular flourite, and both have really helped with my rosette plants (swords, cryps, sagitaria) as it does an excellent job of storing nutrients. Not to mention stem plants have also done well.


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## Sharp019

Thank you for your response, It really did shed some light on a lot of questions I had regarding Flourite. Do any of you guys have eco complete? I was wondering if this stuff does or doesn't break down?


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## exv152

I've read good things and not so good things about eco-complete, like it tends to raise the hardness of the water, but can also produce some very lush plants after the break-in period. I have personally never used it, but I swear by flourite. I guess it depends what kind of plants you want to go with, if you're planning on having any large rooted plants like cryps or swords then it'll do a great job. Otherwise, go with whatever looks nicer to you, stem plants like hygrophila and ludwiga grow in just about any substrate.


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## darkoon

i think i read it from Barr's website that substrate is not that important if you do EI to keep enough nutrition in the water column.


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## herns

Sharp019 said:


> Hi, I was just wondering if anybody has had any experience with this substrate. Is it true what the company claims on their site that you never need to replace it? Some pictures of some tanks with seachem flourite would be nice to see. what are your thoughts on it?


Ive been using Flourite Red for more than 4 years now and dont have any issue.


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## ddavila06

i just got me some flourite sand black and i really like it! is not messy, even color and size.


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## freydo

since i've been away for a while, i'm going to revive this thread 

i've used the red flourite and switched out to black fourite, something that fans of flourite had been hoping for many years. the only issues i've had with flourite in general is growing plants like HC. the grains were too big for me to grow. with the fish i had i always found them floating.

i've never tried eco-complete, because i couldn't get it locally, and getting it online was too expensive. shipping costs were too high for me to bother with.

from what i've read flourite is an inert substrate, so it should be good for pretty much forever. i used the PPS method of fertilizing and always had plants grow nicely.

cheers!


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## OVT

All 3 of my tanks have the original Flourite:

75T: ~ 50% Flourite / 30% fine river gravel / 20% pea gravel (~10 years)
37Corner: ~ 75% Flourite / 25% fine river gravel (~4 years)
24nano: 100% Flourite (~5 years)

3-4" substrate, no CO2, Coralife CF @ ~ 3.5 w/g, until recently, weekly dose of LeafZone per manufacturer dosage.

For 4 -5 years swords in the 75 grew like crazy, reaching the top of the 24" tank. About 2 years ago the swords became progressively shorter and started to show signs of nutrient deficiencies. I went on the quest to find the cause: web search, showed leaves to friends in the hobby, changed all lights, upped LeafZone, finally breaking down both 75 and 37 and re-washing the substrate, to little positive effect. The light went on when the owner of one of the LFS said that they treat all substrates as inert. In went the root tabs. Bingo: swords are doing great again.

The moral: regardless of what anyone says, Flourite will gradually lose it's nutrient content (Fe. etc.), albeit, in my case, after about 7 years. Once I zeroed in on the substrate as one of the main causes of my swords' demise and started asking more specific questions, the consensus among the LFS owners was that the life expectancy of Flourite as a nutrients' source is about 5 years. Most said that in a sotto voice as not to contradict the manufacturer's claims on Flourite's depletion rate.

I could not help but notice that the 3 LFS that I respect and trust use 100% standard Flourite in their "plants for sale" tanks. 1 uses CO2, other 2 do not. The one with CO2 has the most healthy, beautiful looking plants but also the most expensive. The owner said that the substrate was 8 years old and was never replaced or added to.

My personal observations:

*Initial Set-up:* this is a major undertaking, imho. Seachem recommends pre-washing the substrate. I used a kitchen fine-mesh strainer over a ~4gl plastic bucket placed in a kitchen sink. Add 4-5 standard cups from the bag into the strainer, run warm water over it, stirring and tossing, until the bucket is full. Slowly empty the bucket. Repeat until the water in the bucket is relatively clear. It took 4-5 cycles for me to call the substrate "pre-washed". The first 2 cycles would result in organic film floating on top of the bucket, including ~ 1mm x 5mm sticks, grass remnants and such. At the end of the process the bottom of the bucket contains "fine sand", particles of ~ 0.1mm. Out of 4 cups of pre-washed, I would get about 1/3 to 1/2 cup of sand. (About 10% by volume). Putting the pre-washed into a tank and then filling the tank up results in fine turbidity that clears up in about 12 hours.

To say that this method is a real pain is a strong understatement. Think 10+ bags 4 cups at a time. Roughly 1hr per bag. Any better ideas are very welcome. I read that some people just dump a bag into a bucket and run a garden hose over it until the run-off is clear. That should get the dust and organics out, but what about the "sand"?

*Subsequent Use:* as I broke down 2 tanks I had the opportunity (lucky me) to repeat the above process on "used" Flourite. This time around I did not get the organic film, just the usual sludge and the "sand", in about the same 10% by volume amount.

*Float-ability and scapping:* While vacuuming, substrate often gets sucked into the tube, clogging it up. On the other hand, I do not see substrate particles suspended in the water column. I also do not see the substrate moving due to filter and an occasional power-head generated current. But attempts to slope the substrate result in the perfectly level substrate in under 24 hours.

*Particle Break-down:* every time I vacuum the substrate, I end up with fair amount of "sand" and larger particles at the bottom of my bucket. I also find very small amount of the substrate in the pre-filter chambers of my cannister filters. I do not notice the reduction in the height of the substrate. The continuing presence of sub-0.2mm particles in the tanks could either be due to me not completely washing it out at the set-up or point to the possibility that the substrate particles break down over time.

As an aside, I had a bright idea to make the rear corner of the 37g friendly to my loaches and corries. I put about 1" of Flourite "sand" in the corner and declared myself to be a fish warden with a conscience. I have been sucking that sand with water out from all over the tank during vacuuming for years. Nothing clogs your vacuum tube faster, denser, or more completely.

*Inert:* does not seem to affect pH, KH, or GH. Tried 1/3 pre-washed Flourite 2/3 water in a bucket: no measurable changes. Unfortunately, I had no foresight to do the same test with TDS. My tap water is consistently around 270 ppm, while the tank water is around 600 ppm, even after a 50% WC. The difference in TDS could be attributed to multiple factors unrelated to the substrate.

*Color:* overal pleasing to my eye, but the particles' color varies from very light peach to black. Anyway you look at it, Flourite is a multi-colored substrate.

*Particle Size:* wide variations from "dust" to 5mm. Looking at my 100% Flourite tank I see that the smallest particles end up on the bottom, with the largest ones on the top.

*Compact-ability:* mixed experience: over time the substrate compacts very tightly, feeling solid to the touch. But here and there I find some pockets where my finger goes right through to the very bottom.

*Plant Retention:* I cannot plant *anything* without plant weights: no water sprite (fine roots), no swords (medium roots), no crypts (large roots). Regardless how much I try to compact the substrate around the new plant or how much substrate I pile up, or how deep I plant, the plant ends up floating sooner then later. I do not like plant weights, I do not like the idea of lead in my tanks, but that's what I have to use besides an occasional stone or driftwood. I even bought a bunch of plastic "Professional Plant Anchors" from AquariumPlants but they float even when buried under Flourite. Vallisneria and amazonicus look especially pathetic floating upside-down with a white plastic circle around their roots. Planting micro chain swords builds you character, over and over again. Baby tears? I will let you try it first.

The good news is once the plants take root they stay put.

*Plant Propagation:* Propagation ability does not seem to be impeded; with nympheas, swords, crypts, and vallisnerias giving me numerous healthy off-springs. The suitability of Flourite to root development seems to be excellent: all the plants I have pulled for replanting or for donations had great, healthy, extensive root systems. Puling a plant out is not an issue with minimal water cloudiness and damage to the roots. If the substrate is to compacted around the plant, loosen the substrate with your finger (or whatever). Almost all the plants I pulled had substrate particles attached to their roots, which, I think, is a good thing.

*Burrowers Friendliness:* Flourite particles do have sharp edges. I keep normal size (~2"") corries, including sterbai, in all of my tanks. Even though most of them are 8+ years old and blind, they do not exhibit any visible damage to barbells. I also currently have golden loaches and bushynoses that are doing just fine. In the past I also had kuhli loaches, dojo loaches, and kubotai botias with no apperent issues. My several attempts to keep hastatus and botia sidthemunkis were not sucessfull but at the moment I have no reasons to blame the substrate for my failures.

*Personal Conclusion:* I am currently looking for substrate for my brand new planted tank. I did as much on-line research as I could.

- The idea of ADA's AquaSoil + PowerSand "falling appart" in 2-5 years does not appeal to me. One LFS owner who used it to rebuild his 175g display amano-type tank told me today to get ready "for frequent WC for the next 2-3 months". Even with ADA's prices roughly equal to Flourite. Ouchy. 
- Eco-Complete reviews seem to be hit and miss.
- CaribSea? Hm.
- Laterite? not likely.
- Blasting sand, cat litter, saw dust, concrete demolition re-bar, grinded PC boards?  Pass.

So, what else is left? Here I'm back reading Seachem's web site once again. Maybe Onyx Sand?

Carpe Diem and happy fishing all


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