# Which regulator to get?



## gotcheaprice (Sep 4, 2007)

Ok, so I'm gonna be getting co2 soon in my 55 gal since I'm almost finished making my 2x 55 watt kit from ahsupply. 
I know that I should be opting for Rex's solenoid regulator since it's a lot safer for my fishes, but it is a bit expensive(though I might in the end dish out for this if someone can pursuade me).
I'm wondering how important a solenoid is? I read that if I dose pps, I should be doing it 24/7, but I'm afraid of power outages etc.
Should I go with rex's regulator w/o solenoid, or just get one of the cheaper ones like azoo/mil, with the solenoid?
Thanks.

And whats a good way to temproarily diffuse co2 till I can get a canister and use a reactor? I do have a nano diffuser from aquaticmagic, but don't think that'll work well. Should I just run the nano diffuser under the inlet for my HOB?
Thanks


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

The solenoid valve is very important to have. It allows you far more options for how you treat CO2. With it you can shut off the CO2 when the lights are off, allowing you to run a higher concentration of CO2 during the lights on time. It allows you to use a pH controller. It gives a safe way to shut off the CO2 manually, without worries about damaging the regulator when you turn it back on. It is well worth the small cost to get one.

Cheap regulators can be made to run and can run acceptably well. I use the Milwaukee all in one regulator and it does what I need it to do. The disadvantage is that it requires a lot of care in how you shut off and turn on the CO2 bottle to avoid destroying the outlet gage. It also will very likely need a new solenoid valve within a couple of years. And, its bubble counter tends to leak. Plus the needle valve it comes with isn't easy to adjust, compared to more expensive ones. So, you need to decide how much aggravation you can tolerate in order to avoid spending a few extra dollars now instead of later.


----------



## gotcheaprice (Sep 4, 2007)

Haha, I don't want to spend a little now and pay more eventually. Maybe I might wait a bit and see if I can find some extra money to spend on rex's solenoid one. Ah.... upgrade to a better needle valve, bubble counter....
money money money!


----------



## JohnInFlorida (May 12, 2007)

I'm probably going to be flamed but ... people think that their was is "the ONLY way" ... well, I'm different, my way is just "a way". It works for me, it may or may not work for you. But if what you are doing isn't working, or if you haven't tried any way yet, my way is less expensive than most. It's easy to spend too much on many things in this hobby ... CO2 equipment is one way ... It seems to me that the regulators job is to reduce pressure from 800 - 1000 psi to somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 - 50 psi. That doesn't seem like too difficult or too precise a job. Any and all regulators should be able to do that. To my mind, the difficult/precise job is to reduce 10 - 50 psi to 1 - 5 bps ... that requires some precision, and a good needle valve fulfills that requirement.

Here's what I use, it works for me ... so far, without any problems.

Regulator ... $34.99 (+ shipping if no Harbor Freight in your area)
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94841

Pipe dope ... $1.49 @ hardware store
for when you switch the Argon fitting for the CGA-320 fitting (included w/regulator)

Needle Valve ... $18.30 + shipping
http://store.fabco-air.com/proddetail.php?prod=NV-55

DIY reactor ... $8 - 10 ... lots of plans available, here's one ...
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...m-projects/2958-diy-inline-reactor-plans.html

That 1 regulator, 2 NV-55s and 2 DIY reactors are supplying CO2 to my 180g AND my 55g. The 180 runs @ +/- 5bps while the 55 runs @ 2-3bps There's about 20 feet between the two tanks with the CO2 bottle in my entertainment center which sits between the 2 tanks. I'm using automotive windshield washer tubing ($0.22/ft) from AutoZone to connect it all together.

That's it folks ... simple and relatively inexpensive.

Some will bring up "end of tank dump" ... I wonder how many people have ever personally experienced EOTD in their own aquarium ... I haven't, but my common sense tells me that if the regulator passes 100+ psi along to my needle valve/tank ... before my needle valve vents all that pressure/gas into the tank, either the tubing will pop off the hose barb or rupture ... venting the excess CO2 into the room, not into my tank.

I'm all for spending money where it needs to be spent, but it bugs me when I wind up spending money I didn't need to.

Just my 2 cents worth ...

Keep Smilin'
John


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I agree with you John. If you are willing to do that bit of work and are not in a panic if something needs to be fixed I see no good reason to spend good money for a good regulator. My Milwaukee does what I need it to do, even though I had to replace the solenoid valve, remove the bubble counter and leave it off, and I have to be careful with turning on a refilled CO2 tank. I'm not unhappy that I bought the Milwaukee. People who don't fit that category will be happier spending more money up front.


----------



## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

End-of-tank dump is real. Almost any needle valve will protect you enough to avoid a real disaster. The problem usually affects people who use their regulator adjustment knob to set their bubble rate (a la Milwaukee instructions). At low supply pressures the regulator gets a bit jumpy and it can feed a lot of gas through a wide-open needle valve. I really doubt it would pop off the tubing though. It's a low pressure, high flow situation.

I would advise buying a high-quality solenoid after having mine stick open this week. Disaster was narrowly averted.


----------



## gotcheaprice (Sep 4, 2007)

o_o 
Woah, lol, reason I never opted for that route is that shipping price for a single regulator from the beverage factory would've been $40, so $80 for just the regulator. I already have a needle valve from floridadriftwood, so I might go with this route, and maybe order a solenoid from rex. 

So all I need would be the regulator, pipe dope?(what is this?), co2 tubing, and a diffuser.
Any other suggestions instead of a reactor, since I don't have my canister yet?

*Orders delivered to Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Guam and Virgin Islands will be charged actual Freight Charges, and will be Emailed to you. Orders mailed to APO and FPO addresses will be charged actual 4th class postage.

I guess I better email them for no surprises... I might get end up getting from rex since his already includes shipping. Unless the shipping price isn't outrageous.


----------



## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

You need a few more things than John listed. Hose barbs for one. The NV-55 doesn't come with barbs. And once it's shipped it's more expensive than I charge for the valve WITH barbs. And there is a bunch of fittings that John has not listed nor a check valve. 

Just an example. Fabco charges $6.98 to ship a single NV-55 out to Oregon. That's criminal. They are probably making more off the shipping than they are off the needle valve. 

It's the little things that turn around and bite you every time.

And EOTD does exist. I hear about it on an almost weekly basis. With good hose barbs the hose will not pop off. The Clippard single barb will hold Clippard tubing to 100 PSI. 

What happens with an EOTD is that your working pressure goes way up. Say you are running 15 psi working pressure and with the EOTD it goes up to 75 psi. And that can happen. An inexpensive needle valve will then allow 5X (or more) CO2 into the aquarium. A good needle valve will only allow 2x.

Also I build more DIY reactors than anyone else. And it's impossible to build even my simplified DIY reactor for $8-$10. If you don't have cement then there's $5 already. And one piece, the 2"X2"X3/4" T is around $4-$5. And then you have some other parts and hose barbs. And I do know the price of all those parts since I just spent over $200 on PVC fittings (no hose barbs or pipe included) last week.


----------



## gotcheaprice (Sep 4, 2007)

Hehe, yeah, those shipping charges will kill the deal of building it yourself.
I might just get the solenoid regulator with the fabco and bubble counter from you. Have to get my mom to let me use her paypal account again, lol. Maybe I'll just ask my uncle, since he does have a bank account one. 
And I want to get your reactor too, but I also need to install a bleed valve and I want clear pvc in the middle. Is there a way I can get that if I pay a little more? (and if I order the regulator, i'll get the reactor later since I don't have my canister yet).
Thanks for the help.

And Rex, I saw that you suggested going with 24/7 co2 in the other thread. Do you think I should go with 24/7 co2 too?


----------



## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

I don't build reactors with bleed valves or clear PVC. Not going to either. Clear PVC makes no sense to me. Just another place for you to notice algae and bacterial slime growth. If you have your heart set on a clear PVC reactor then send me the clear PVC and I will build the reactor. 

I still inject CO2 24/7 on one of my tanks. I did it on all my tanks for years. Works quite well. But does use more CO2.


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Rex, if the working pressure of CO2 goes from 15 psi to 75 psi (about 30 psia to 90 psia) the flow through any needle valve, cheap or expensive, has to go up by a factor of 3. The flowrates we deal with are so small the flow thru them has to be laminar flow, not turbulent, and they cannot be sonic flow orifices, so the flow rate is directly proportional to pressure drop across the valve. My theory, and I haven't been lucky enough to witness this, is that cheap regulators are much more likely than expensive regulators to have the working pressure go way up with dropping CO2 tank pressure. I don't know why that would be, but I'm betting that is the problem.


----------



## rs79 (Dec 7, 2004)

Rex why would you want to inject CO2 at night when the plants are consuming oxygen and giving off CO2?


----------



## gotcheaprice (Sep 4, 2007)

Not really set on clear pvc, just wanted to see it work, but I can definitely give that up, but not sure if I want to give up the bleed valve, since hoppy mentions that I would need it to prime the xp3.


----------



## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Why do I inject CO2 at night? Because that regulator has no solenoid on it. Kind of a case of the cobbler's children having no shoes. 

Same with the regulator I ran for years on my 55 and 29 gallon tank. No solenoid. 

Hoppy: Part of it is the CV of the needle valve. A valve that is operating very close to shutoff has a larger margin of error.


----------



## rs79 (Dec 7, 2004)

Hah! Hey if it works, it works.


----------



## gotcheaprice (Sep 4, 2007)

Ahh... My mom won't let me get a regulator -_- She said it's too expensive. So I think my only option would be to find a used one for like, under $50 shipped or something, but I think I might wait to see if she eventually gives in. She's letting me get the filter though  
I'll fight the algae problem with my scraper, lol.


----------

