# Dry ferts



## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

So I've been doing gregwatson ferts for sometime in my 75 and 55 gallon tanks...They plants have really taken off, algae almost nearly died off.
But now I'm starting to notice that some plants are starting to look "thin"
The wisertia is getting really really tall and stringy looking
I've been doing about 1/4 tsp of the common CSM+B, iron, Pot Sulfate, mono pot phosphate. 1x weekly after water changes.
Some of the plants, swords mostly in the 75 gal have leaves that have "hollowed" out, the leaves have disinegrated all but the veins leaveing a "cloth" looking pattern...
I also dose Flourish Excel at the same time as the others...
lighting periods around about 10 hours.

any ideas?


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

i guess i should note that the tanks are c02 injected and run about 2 wpg


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

You need to dose nitrates. It looks to me like you are running out of nitrates and that is the cause of your problems.


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## evercl92 (Aug 14, 2006)

Why are you using Excel and CO2 injection? I don't see why you would necessarily need to use the (expensive) excel if you are using injection as a carbon source.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

I agree with Hoppy. The fish may provide enough NO3 in a lower light tank without CO2 but once you increase the light and add CO2 you will more than likely need to supplement NO3.


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

hmmm, odd my nitrate levels are pretty good. Around 30+ kinda high i thought.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

When you rely on testing to adjust your fertilizing you absolutely have to calibrate your test kits. No hobbyest grade test kit is going to be guaranteed accurate, especially for nitrates, phosphates, etc. So, your 30 ppm might be 5 ppm or 60 ppm, and until you calibrate the kit you can't be sure. If you give up the testing and just use EI as a fertilizing method that ceases to be a problem.


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## bugs (Jul 19, 2006)

hoppycalif said:


> If you give up the testing and just use EI as a fertilizing method that ceases to be a problem.


When I was reading up about EI, I kept seeing instructions along the lines of "Does NO3 up to 30ppm". At the time I thought this was contrary to the EI concept. What you've just said reinforces this.

However... How do you decide how much to dose if you don't test in the first place.

Confused...


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

bugs said:


> However... How do you decide how much to dose if you don't test in the first place.
> 
> Confused...


That's part of the ease of EI, it's all been figured out for you  Give John's article Estimative Index Dosing Guide a read. It should explain everything for you. If not, feel free to ask some more questions


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

yeah, i know about EI..overdoes, then waterchange.
Simple enough. I was trying to avoid the work, honestly. Im pretty lazy.
I'm actually following an online guide. water changes get done about 1x a week. about 20%.
But mabey I'll switch things up a bit and try the nitrates. 
If that's what you think is causing things to be all stringy.


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## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

> I was trying to avoid the work, honestly. Im pretty lazy.
> I'm actually following an online guide. water changes get done about 1x a week. about 20%.


 I don't understand what work your trying to avoid?

Your already doseing.... so when you do that just add one more thing... nitrates.... you already doing weekly waterchanges so when you do those just add 30% on to it.

Thats it two easy little changes and you should be good to go  really when you look at it its not any more work than your already doing


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

sounds good, just gotta get those nitrates....


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

alright, so i really looked at the EI seriously tonight. I think it's something I might try.
It's setup it's proven. it pretty easy, it seems.
My questions about it are..

1. 50% water changes? I know i sound whiny but I'm soon going to have 3 tanks, plus a 12 gallon saltwater. I honestly don't have this much time to do that big of a water change. As is I sometimes miss water changes. No more than a week. so bi-weekly.
So should I extend one week over two weeks? or just adjust the amounts? or would I be okay doing a 20% water change or so still? weekly possibly bi-weekly?

2. Liquid solutions?
aren't there ones i can't combine and can combine? 
Somehow just having bottles to do drops just seems easy? I dunno mabey it's just me.


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## Jookie (Sep 30, 2003)

Some people might tell you to not use CO2 and Excell together, but I use it for algae control. I use it only when I see algae starting to spring up. As far as a carbon source, my CO2 should provide all the plants need.


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

yeah, that's pretty much what I've been doing. Since I've seen this algae pop up.

any comments on the EI posted above ^^^^^^^


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## DirkW (Mar 5, 2006)

Moo said:


> 1. 50% water changes? I know i sound whiny but I'm soon going to have 3 tanks, plus a 12 gallon saltwater. I honestly don't have this much time to do that big of a water change. As is I sometimes miss water changes. No more than a week. so bi-weekly.
> So should I extend one week over two weeks? or just adjust the amounts? or would I be okay doing a 20% water change or so still? weekly possibly bi-weekly?


50% water change is an important part of the system, so if you're not willing and able to do that, you've got to adapt. The idea around the 50% changes is that you don't have to worry about an overdose of ferts. The smaller and/or less frequent the water changes, the more you have to worry about keeping your water parameters in check.

One possibility is to read up on PPS and come up with a regimine that falls between the two extremes.

EI: no testing, lots of water changes
PPS: little or no water changes, lots of testing

I prefer lots of water changes for the health of my fish. I've got four tanks that circulate water between them; the lowest tank works like a sump. Using a Python, my changes are a breeze.


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

I've considered getting a python, or refill hose.
Well, I'll try it for awhile. Just suck up the WCs and do it because it's gonna help. haha.


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## star rider (Feb 27, 2006)

I am reading this with great interest. I have 1 HT tank and 4 LT tanks. and several with fish and mix of hardy live plants and fake. 

the HT is my concerns a 75 with discus and I like live plants. i just added presurized CO2 and know I need to add ferts.
I'll be looking to GW for those.

I have 7 fw tanks total..I can add more to the ferts but I can attest to the use of a python

it is a life saver I alternate days to do water changes and it is not a chore any longer to change water. it is a breeze and only tankes a few minutes to drain the tanks and then a few more to replace water.

?? tho re water changes..on my 75 planted discus i am use to changing water 40% twice per week..
I wonder about dosing ferts in this tank and staying with 40% water changes twice per week.

I have a total of


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## Moo (Apr 27, 2006)

I have a question for you phython users.
Obvioulsy you use it to empty the tank, but you can use it to refill too right?
If so, how do you get the temp the same? wouldn't the length of the hose and the temp of it cause some difference? or is it not enough?


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## DirkW (Mar 5, 2006)

The Python has a gravel vac on one end, and a hose connector on the other. You can connect it to your garden hose or get an adapter for the sink. You can also build one yourself using a gravel vac, vinyl tubing, and a little hardware. Google DIY Python for the instructions.

The temp can be adjusted by filling from the sink and adding just a little bit of hot water. I just refill from the hose in the back yard unless it's freezing. Even when the outside temps drop into the 40's, I can do a 50% water change and have the temp drop no more than 3-4 degrees. In the wild, you'll find temperature variations up to 10 degrees in the same body of water.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Moo said:


> 1. 50% water changes? so bi-weekly.
> So should I extend one week over two weeks? or just adjust the amounts? or would I be okay doing a 20% water change or so still? weekly possibly bi-weekly?


50% water changes each week will help bringing the overdosing of fertilizers to a minimum. If you want to keep water changes to a bi-weekly routine, then dose 2x a week of each fert or simply dose less with the 3x dosage amounts, AND reduce your lighting to 9 hours instead of the current 10. If you notice odd plant growth increase fertilizer amount slightly.



Moo said:


> 2. Liquid solutions? aren't there ones i can't combine and can combine?


You can combine NPK together. Whereas you want to keep the Plantex solution separate. I actually think it's easier to dose with teaspoons, espeically with larger tanks. Dip and dump, and less time remixing the solutions.



Moo said:


> I have a question for you phython users.
> Obvioulsy you use it to empty the tank, but you can use it to refill too right? If so, how do you get the temp the same? wouldn't the length of the hose and the temp of it cause some difference? or is it not enough?


A python will help you change water faster, and is a must have in my opinion. It makes life easier, and you'll never carry buckets ever again. It drains, and refills tanks easily.

I set the tap water temperature by "feel" before letting it rip to the tanks. Once you set the tap temperature, the water temperature will remain pretty much constant during the filling procedure. No worries. When the water starts filling, I add the Seachem Prime dechlorinator straight to the tank.

-John N.


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