# NASH Aquascaping contest



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

NASH members

OK so here is the big secret we have been sitting on. If you have been we have been trying to get people to come back to the club due to an "anouncemnet" that will not be able to be taken advantage of unless you are a current member, so here it is.

A lot of you have heard me express interest in doing a in club aquascaping contest, but the logistics of this is difficult when you consider a 100 gallon tank can not be fairly judged next to a 10 gallon tank, and with such a small entery group it is not feesible to have multiple catagories like other contest do. What I am proposing is a club subsidized tank that will be used exclusively for the compititions.

Right now our vendor is willing to sell us one of two setups at a discounted rate. The setups are as follows

5 gallon tank with a standard flourecent light for $35
5 gallon tank with a Azoo LED light for $40

Either way we go the club will subsidize $20 for each tank, that will mean that to each member the tank will only cost $15-$20 for each setup (one tank/light per member), If you want more than the club sponcered one I can make arrangement for you to order more at the full price that the club is paying for. I think in the long run option number two is the better option.

What I need from you is this, by popular vote which system do we want to get?

Please note that this tank will be a requirement for the NASH contests (yes we will do more than one) so buying and selling the tank at a higher price is at your own risk (aka don't do it)

And as I said this is open to only current NASH members, if you want to take advantage of the deal then get with me to pay our dues.

I need an answer by Friday


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

BTW I vote option two, if you look at these led light they are much better and more expensive. We are getting a great deal on these.


----------



## TNguyen (Mar 20, 2005)

I vote for an ADA mini S or mini M! :hat:


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

Please vote onthe tanks offered as this is what we can get at such a low price


----------



## TNguyen (Mar 20, 2005)

we have a source here in Houston that does custom tank. I can contact him and find out about a group buy and see how much that will cost depending on the number to see if it is feasible. I'm just a knuckle head for trimless tank. Let me know. Friday is a short notice for most people.


----------



## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

You have a pic of the 5 gal with Azoo LED. Is the Azoo LED able to provide enough light for plants?


----------



## Navarro (Feb 12, 2004)

Thanh PM me please. Filemon I will try to get the pictures ready as soon as possible.
Luis


----------



## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

You guys are nuts, haha

Thanh, get with the program, will ya If the gents said they can get good deals, then let'em have at it. Also, remember this will involve the entire current club members, many of whom might not be as versed in aquatic layout regime as others. So let's try not to make things too complicated for the club as a whole. We need to make sure all of us will have equal footing as far as everything goes. In terms of knowledge and experience, obvious these cannot be transferred telepathically But they CAN be shared.........verbally! And that's where we have meetings and gathering to dispel any myths that aquatic planted tanks are a PITA to keep! 

So I say let's dip our green thumbs and dive in!!!!!(and no I am not high in case some are wondering.....at least at this moment I am not)


Option 2 with led light sounds good to me. But yes, a picture or a link to its pictures would be nice.


----------



## TNguyen (Mar 20, 2005)

Paul Higashikawa said:


> You guys are nuts, haha
> 
> Thanh, get with the program, will ya If the gents said they can get good deals, then let'em have at it. Also, remember this will involve the entire current club members, many of whom might not be as versed in aquatic layout regime as others. So let's try not to make things too complicated for the club as a whole. We need to make sure all of us will have equal footing as far as everything goes. In terms of knowledge and experience, obvious these cannot be transferred telepathically But they CAN be shared.........verbally! And that's where we have meetings and gathering to dispel any myths that aquatic planted tanks are a PITA to keep!
> 
> ...


get with the program? What are you talking about. Yes you are really high!  Never mention anything about layout and such. :humble: just another feedback.


----------



## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Option 2. 

So, we get to keep the tank, scape it, enter it into the contest, and then it's ours? (Not trying to be greedy, just curious and excited about the prospect of having a 2nd tank...FINALLY! )


----------



## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

TNguyen said:


> get with the program? What are you talking about. Yes you are really high!  Never mention anything about layout and such. :humble: just another feedback.


 I meant git wit program as far as tank goes. No need to make things more complicated. While I also like trimless, it is clear Luis and Kevin already worked out the deal to get those tanks. So we are ready for the next phase of things. No need to detour to go find another dealer.

As for layouts, it is another story, which I am sure we will talk about at our regular monthly meeting.

And OK, I guess I am "kiiiindda" high with all the coffee I drank today. 4-40, man, can make you do crazy things, like.........typing voraciously


----------



## HoustonFishFanatic (Feb 26, 2007)

davemonkey said:


> Option 2.
> 
> So, we get to keep the tank, scape it, enter it into the contest, and then it's ours? (Not trying to be greedy, just curious and excited about the prospect of having a 2nd tank...FINALLY! )


Yes.


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

Yes the tank is your with the intent to reuse it for future contests


----------



## beaver24 (Jan 4, 2009)

Sweet!! What a great excuse to get a new tank! I cant wait! So does this mean we all have to get the same filtration equipment too?


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

beaver24 said:


> Sweet!! What a great excuse to get a new tank! I cant wait! So does this mean we all have to get the same filtration equipment too?


No, at this time filtration, scape(of course) and anything else would be up to you. I will get a set of rules soon. but for now, tank and light.


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

here is the light from Azoo
http://www.azoopalm.com/products/lighting/neo-24-led-reef/neo-24-led-reef/


----------



## beaver24 (Jan 4, 2009)

LED light looks awesome! Only question is it says the led bulbs are white/blue mix?


----------



## Ajax (Apr 3, 2006)

This sounds like a really good idea, but there are a couple of points that might need some attention.

1) Do we have to use those particular 5gal tanks? What if club members already have a 5gal tank? 
2) I know we're trying to level the playing field, but does size really matter? :lol: The IAPLC is a "free for all" if you will, and it works pretty well.

The reason I bring this up is to increase the participation as much as possible. People who already have tanks, but may not be able to afford another complete setup, might be excluded. Especially considering the economy the way it is. Anyway, just somethings to think about.

John


----------



## TNguyen (Mar 20, 2005)

Ajax said:


> This sounds like a really good idea, but there are a couple of points that might need some attention.
> 
> 1) Do we have to use those particular 5gal tanks? What if club members already have a 5gal tank?
> 2) I know we're trying to level the playing field, but does size really matter? :lol: The IAPLC is a "free for all" if you will, and it works pretty well.
> ...


+1, I agree with John. If we are just judging the scape then the tank setup shouldn't matter as long as its the similar size. Removing all equipment before taking the pic to be judge.

I like the idea of max participant. I think extending the deadline is good too, so more people can know about this. Maybe Kevin, Luis, or Paul can chime in on this. :tea:


----------



## ingg (Apr 8, 2007)

I'll call BS on that one, guys.

You take an AGA 5g rimmed, and I'll take a small cube aquarium.... and the depth I'm given pretty much gives me an enormous advantage, even if you strip your rim. A couple inches front to back is just a huge advantage in this size category.

We've been debating this one on the GWAPA board all year - we run a similar contest with 2.5g AGA tanks and 2x13 CFL lighting setups. The possibility of adding (or replacing with) 5g setups created some...lively... discussions.

It truly is the best course to even the playing field on tank dimensions, from an overall group perspective.


----------



## TNguyen (Mar 20, 2005)

my mini S doesn't qualify? :-#


----------



## hooha (Apr 21, 2005)

I'll butt in and play devil's advocate here 

- Has anyone used the LED lighting for freshwater planted tanks yet? It looks like a sweet setup but if it doesn' grow plants well then it's not any good for an aquascaping contest.

- agree with ingg, having an 'even playing field' is key for a contest like this. Members don't require a purchase of the tank and light setup, but they'd need to use the same setup if they want to enter....
with that in mind, once a light is decided, buying a light by itself will likely cost as much as the two together (briefly looking online the LED light looks to go for $50).


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

All good concerns

But lets think of the other side.
what we are trying to do is to generate creativity with both experanced and new scapers alike. A small 5 gallon tank is very easy to rescape at will which will hopfully give some relief to new scapers.

Is there a cost that will be incured by the member, yes. This will be a one time cost, and considering the economic downturn the club is going to subsidize these tanks to the members. Now I am not trying to hide anything from any one, I show what each set is going to cost the club and what we are helping out with per member. And I answered the cost of the filter will be the responcibility of the member, but this is not to say that we will not be able to get a discounted group rate for these filters (this is being worked on as well). Please note that the club is acually losing money to each member for this.

Yes, the LED is slick and a little on the unkown side. but at the price we are talking it would be worth the risk, and if it does not work this also does not mean that we can not do a group (possibly club subsidized) buy of replacement/upgraded lights next contest.

Do ou have to buy this tank, no you can use any standard 5 gallon tank. At this time we have not made a decision on the ADA mini m due to is is not a "standard" 5 gallon and the mini s is not an equivalent. But obviously the other "5 gallon" tanks would not apply (hex, bow, shpere...whatever). But then the question of lighting comes into play. If we are keeping this equal then should not everyone use the same light? IF not what if I decide to put a 70w MH on my 5 gallon? Does that create an unfair advantage(assuming I am able to take care of the algae ). SO if you have to buy the light, or an equivilant light by your self, can you beat the club subsized price of $15 or $20? Oviously not if we get the LED cause it costs $50 retail.

as ingg and hooha mentioned, it does make a differance when it comes to size vs size. If you want to compete your mini m against my 75 gallon fine. It may look cleanner because it is rimless and you have the pretty hardware on it, but in the end I can do a lot more with my 75G tha can alter the advantace in my direction. I think that fact can become very evident when you look at the contest photo books.

All in all I think that we have put togeather a pretty good package, and for the price it is a steal.

I am sorry for the short notice, please understand that this is not commitment to purchasing the tank now, only the opportunity to chime in and say yeah I would like to try out the new LED or no I would liek to stick to a standard flourecent.

I would also like to say that competing in the contest is not a requesit of bein a member of NASH. You pay annual dues that we are trying to put to good use for you the member while at the same time further each other interest in the hobby new and old alike.


----------



## TNguyen (Mar 20, 2005)

cool. man, I don't think anyone was mentioning competing a mini s vs a 75gal.  The judging should be on the scape right?

Will all the plant/hardscape be pick from the same pile? Tap water vs RO? :boink:[smilie=b:


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

TNguyen said:


> cool. man, I don't think anyone was mentioning competing a mini s vs a 75gal.  The judging should be on the scape right?
> 
> Will all the plant/hard scape be pick from the same pile? Tap water vs RO? :boink:[smilie=b:[/QUOTE]
> 
> ...


----------



## TNguyen (Mar 20, 2005)

Such harsh comment. Was just curious as like with iron scaping contest. Everyone use the same plant selection and rock/wood to level the competing field. Not trying to complicate anything.


----------



## beaver24 (Jan 4, 2009)

Its a contest guys! Too many parameters to get everyone on an 100% equal playing field! However you guys say its a aquascaping contest.....I'm going to see how "best" i can aquascape algae and green water!


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

now, now
it takes great skill to get the algea to look it's best  only a master can pull it off correctly.


----------



## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

kwc1974 said:


> here is the light from Azoo
> http://www.azoopalm.com/products/lighting/neo-24-led-reef/neo-24-led-reef/


Like the light! So tank + light for me especially if it supports plants. Damn cheaper than a ADA mini-solar. So what does the tank look like?


----------



## Grillmasterp (Mar 17, 2009)

+1 - 5 gallon tank with a Azoo LED light for $40

For an addtl $5, the LED light seems like a better value- 
If the output is insufficient it would still function as a moonlight for a larger tank.


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

I know this thread has gotten a little long. Can you vote on the poll up above?


----------



## Ajax (Apr 3, 2006)

Well, I certainly wasn't trying to stir anything up. I was simply pointing out that some people may not be able to compete due to finances, or even difficuties convincing your spouse you need another tank. 

I will again point out that the IAPLC has NO size categories, and small tanks consistenly whip much larger tanks. If the dimensions of a cube tank are so superior to a traditional rectangular tank why are they never in the top 10? It takes skill to create the depth perception, not just tank dimensions.


----------



## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

Wow, good to see so many feedbacks as well as concerns

Rest assured, things are not set in stone and we will have small group meeting with active members to get things on the table and discuss all the topics. 

Thanh, I am sure that was not Kev's intention to be harsh. Again, we active members will have small meeting when you return so everyone will be on the same page.


Now I am REALLY fired up to do some mini scapes!!!

And I really appreciate the feedbacks from our GWAPA brethrens! They speak from solid experience


----------



## The old man (Apr 12, 2008)

Count me in for the led tank. Really a good deal for members. I just got a 3 gallon tetra mini tank with led light at Walmart on clearance for $20 and I'm sure the Azoo is much better light. Really anxious to try it out.


----------



## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

I can see the valid arguements presented, and I'd like to add my bit.

I'm one of the ones who has not been able to afford another tank, especially during these times. (In fact, I only have one aquarium. ) I see this as a terrific opportunity for me to get a second tank with a terrific light for MUCH cheaper than I could do on my own. This opportunity that Kevin has proposed is my first realistic shot of having that second aquarium, and I'm VERY EXCITED about it. :supz: (Although, I have to admit that I won't be telling my wife until after the fact. )

I look forward to doing my very first min-scape and I thank the NASH officers who came up with this idea. 

-Dave


----------



## jciotti (Aug 14, 2007)

Why not just make the requirement be that any standard sized 5 gallon tank would work. People can choose to buy the tank being offered or use a Mini M long as it is just size limitation.


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

Guys we are straying off topic again.

The post is not about if you can use any standard 5gallon tank, but instead about what prefeance we would have on the lighting. It does not matter if you compete with your own 5 only that we all use the same size tank. With such short time left in the poll please stay on topic. Obviously if I could of got ADA mini m fo $15 each this would have been considered. I may be wrong but I do not think everyone has a mini m or a 5 gallon laying around. So we have got a deep discount on a tank and light set to offer our members. Once we have an idea of quantity and type to order we can all sit down an then cuss and discuss the rules and regulations of the contest.

Please understand, I trying to keep this thread going in the dirction that it was meant for. Not trying to argue or correct or condeem. Just had a specific goal in mind and trying to get there as easy as possible


----------



## msenske (Feb 4, 2005)

JCiotti ?


----------



## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

Just saw that drsfostersmith has this new LED lighting that lets you adjust the Kelvin ranges. I know it costs like an arm and a leg, but at least now we know it does grow plants IF it has the range ideal to grow plants (ie 5000-10000K).

So now my question is this, what is the K reading on this Azoo lighting? It might be better if we know beforehand. If we know it is not in the right range, then we won't even have to spend the money. If that's the case, then I opt for the compact fluorescent option. So I think this is one topic we need to discuss later at our meeting. Or I will bring up the issue this Saturday.


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

Ok I have not got a Kelvin rating yet, but I have found that of the 24 white/blue led lights on this 18 are white and 6 are blue


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

OK I must be dense, I can not find the light you are talking about Paul. All of the LED that they have a re fixed at a given K rate


----------



## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

Okay, don't get too excited now but it is *this* I was talking about.

The technology itself is exciting but I was not too excited about the price, haha
But yeah, just imagine being able to adjust the Kelvin reading at your will~ If they can bring the price down by a couple hundreds it is worth considering........


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

That is cool, but I have my doubts about it, I would need to see the tech white papers on it. Also It needs about $500 knocked off for me to even consider it. 24" for $899...wow


----------



## Navarro (Feb 12, 2004)

Good lord they are expensive! Kind of cool but expensive! Nice find Paul I need to start using these lights at my house I am sure it will save me a buck or two every month.
Cheers,
Luis


----------



## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

I voted for LEDs. but that's a good point about the K-rating. The 6 blues may very well be in the actinic range (420-460nm) if these lights were meant to be useful in saltwater/freshwater (as opposed to only fresh) . I've tried actinic blue in my tank when I first started out and they were pretty useless.

-Dave


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

Yeah, most actinic are not good for plants, some have a little effect. but if you look at the count and see a picture of it then you can see that the blues are not that strong and it gives a decent overall white to it. I know that the website for Azoo states "for planted aquariums", and I am trying to get the Kelvin rating from them.

Here is some pics


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

here is another one that I found
take into mind that if you look closely it is tilted towards the camera. Also it will flood the aquarium better than what it is doing here, you have to take distance into mind. But this gives you an idea of the overall color.


----------



## Paul Higashikawa (Mar 18, 2004)

http://azooaz.com/products/lighting/

From the website, it says the lighting is 50/50 and perfect for both reef and planted tanks. So I am making an educated guess and say the light is most likely 10000K/actinic combination, much similar to many compact fluorescent fixtures made for the same purpose. In terms of growing plants, yes, the actinic part of the bulb is pretty useless. I used the Coralife 18W bulb which was also 50/50. It was only the white, 10000K part doing all the growing. The blue actinic was more like for viewing. Did it grow plants? Yes, but only the white part does.


----------



## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

I wonder how difficult it would be do change the remaining LEDs to the same white K? Should be just a simple de-solder and re-solder job.


----------



## Navarro (Feb 12, 2004)

How about I set up a small tank with this light in my office and see what happen.
Cheers,
Luis


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

Good idea Luis, when can you get your hands on one or two? Maybe see that this is indeed adaquate will pu many of the fears and concerns to bed.

I think though on the whole, the majority of the club is for the LED lights.

Luis, were you ever able to get a pic of the tank? Even a camera pic would be fine.


----------

