# Diatom filters and UV sterilizers...



## lowfi (Apr 18, 2007)

Hey everyone,

I know there are quite a few products on the market...but I am just wondering what "the experts" have to say about different diatom filters, and UV sterilizers. I am looking for what you all prefer and your experiences with these products, good and bad. Also, if you have any good tips on where to purchase...where you got a good deal...would be pretty awesome too. I am in the market for these but I just need some direction on which route to go, and I am pretty sure that this is the right place to ask! Thanks a lot.

Sean


----------



## tropism (Jul 21, 2006)

What will you be using it/them for?

I have this 9 watt UV sterilizer from Petsmart (model UV9WPL). I bought it to get rid of stubborn green water, and it worked perfectly. I don't remember for sure, but I think it took between 24 to 48 hours for my 26 gallon to go crystal clear. It's not the best if you're looking for something to have running all the time (might take up too much room in the tank), but it's great for temporary use... no extra plumbing or hooking up to filters. It's *by far* the cheapest (price-wise) UV sterilizer I could find ($30!!), and I was very impressed with it's quality.


----------



## PMD (May 3, 2005)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it bad to use CO2 with diatom filters? Doesn't that raise your KH?

In the past I used the Coralife 9W Turbo-Twist on green water outbreaks in my old 29 gallon. I also used it one time to help get rid of an outbreak of Ich. It worked very well.


----------



## Legacy2005 (Sep 18, 2007)

ive used both uv and diatom. if you want to clear the water up quick then use the diatom. but for extended use i would recommend the uv.

the diatom cleared up a bad green water outbreak in a matter of minutes and it stayed away. where as the uv would work great over night but once sun/light hit the tank it became outmatched.


----------



## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

UV Sterilizers are not ment for the use if you are using DIY yeast setups....


----------



## Brilliant (Jun 25, 2006)

I use the model XL diatom filter. I can only suggest this model. It is rock solid...well except for fragile casing and glass jar. It seriously works like oxyclean commercial. It works miracles! a great weapon in my maintenance arsenal. It does need more maintenance then my car, its a pain to setup and people will not like me for suggesting it but the diatom filter does its job.

I am thinking about using the Aqua Medic 36 Watt Helix Max UV Sterilizer on my 90g. I will not consider other brands. I will run it on a timer. 

Overall, the diatom filter provides superior mechanical filtration second to none. There is nothing better for polishing water. The UV filter is for green water and sterilization. UV does not provide any mechanical filtration.

Diatom filter does not effect parameters....in a negative way.


----------



## lowfi (Apr 18, 2007)

hmm so the diatom filter isn't a good choice for GW? I thought it was the other way around...would the UV be a better option because it seems easy and aside from GW it would also help with Ich outbreaks???


----------



## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

I love diatom filters. They polish the water to crystal clarity and then you can just throw away all the debris that was caught in the filter pad. Its better than UV because you don't get tons of dead algae/other crap decaying in your tank or building up in the corners. It also works faster.


----------



## tropism (Jul 21, 2006)

Legacy2005 said:


> the diatom cleared up a bad green water outbreak in a matter of minutes and it stayed away. where as the uv would work great over night but once sun/light hit the tank it became outmatched.


Like Legacy2005 (and others) said, diatom filters *are* a good choice for GW. They also do filter out Ich parasites (in the free swimming stage), along with other super-fine particles suspended in the water, and they do it very quickly. Brilliant didn't mean that diatom filters wouldn't work for GW, just that GW and sterilization is what UV filters are for.

As far as the UV goes, it will kill anything that passes through it. GW, free-swimming ich, bacteria, etc. It does NOT filter out the particles it killed (it leaves that to your regular filter). UV sterilizers have to have a much slower flow of water through them so it takes longer to see results than with diatom filters. The higher the wattage, the faster water can flow through the UV sterilizer and still kill whatever it is you want to kill (the water needs a minimum 'contact time' with the UV in order to kill stuff). So if a UV sterilizer is 'outmatched' when there's light in the tank, either the flow through the UV is too fast for that wattage, or the wattage and flow is not sufficient for that size tank.

Diatom filters are meant for short term use (though I just read differently on a manufacturer's web page). Because they can filter out such small stuff, they get clogged easily if running continuously. OTOH, if you got a UV sterilizer you could use it to clear up GW, then use it in a quarantine tank for the whole time you've got fish in there (as long as you aren't using medication, since UV light can break down a lot of meds).

For me it came down to money and ease of use. That UV sterilizer I found (which should be fine for aquariums < 50 gallons, certainly < 30 gallons) was only $30. You don't have to worry about getting the correct water flow with that UV unit I mentioned, since it has it's own pump. There's no media to replace (although if your GW is REALLY bad -- like you can't see 2" into the aquarium -- you'll need to clean your filter and/or do a water change after using the UV). If you're planning on spending $80+, don't mind a little extra filter maintenance, and just want something for occasional use to quickly clear up GW and filter out super-fine particles, the diatom filter would probably suit you better.

BTW, diatom filters use 'diatomaceous earth' (diatom powder) as a filter medium. It's kind of funny to me that we use the glass shells of dead brown algae to filter our aquariums.  Oh, and don't ever breath in the diatom powder... it's extremely bad for your lungs.


----------



## tropism (Jul 21, 2006)

Mr. Fish said:


> UV Sterilizers are not ment for the use if you are using DIY yeast setups....


UV sterilizers are fine to use with DIY yeast CO2. One would hope that you're not running the yeast water through the aquarium.  The UV light stays within the UV sterilizer, so it would have absolutely no effect on a DIY yeast CO2 system, other than killing stray yeast cells that got into the aquarium and went through the UV unit.


----------



## bacarlile (Nov 6, 2005)

The Vortex Diatom XL has served me well over the years. The parts are easy to get, directly from vortex. Their "freedom" model and smaller units are not nearly as good as the XL.


----------



## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

tropism said:


> UV sterilizers are fine to use with DIY yeast CO2. One would hope that you're not running the yeast water through the aquarium.  The UV light stays within the UV sterilizer, so it would have absolutely no effect on a DIY yeast CO2 system, other than killing stray yeast cells that got into the aquarium and went through the UV unit.


Wow I was always told different...
How much do one of those suckers cost, Im intrested in getting one.
Also what all does it do, like explian the process


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

A UV sterilizer exposes the water stream (inline with external filter or dedicated pump) with UV rays. The UV will indiscriminately kill all living organisms within the water stream; good, bad does not matter.

A UV sterilizer does just that, it sterilizes the water. You are still left with the problem of filtering the water column.

In the case of "green water" algae bloom, the UV Sterilizer kills the algae and puts the dead algae back into the water column.

Hope that helps.


----------



## tropism (Jul 21, 2006)

Right, and to clarify again (just in case): it ONLY kills stuff that flows through the unit, nothing that doesn't. That means it won't kill algae or bacteria attached to surfaces in the aquarium. Here's a decent diagram of a UV Sterilizer: UV Sterilizer Design. You can get more in-depth info on how they work here: http://americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html That site is geared more towards 24/7 use in an aquarium (which isn't necessary for green water) but it's got a lot of good info. I've only had to use mine twice in the last two years for less than 2 days at a time. [-begin edit-] ...for green water. I've used it for maybe a total 2 months in a quarantine tank. [-end edit-]

Prices vary quite a bit depending on what size tank you have, what you'll be using it for (constant use vs. short term use, disease control vs. occasional killing of GW), what type of installation you want (inside vs. outside the tank, etc), whether you need an extra pump for it or not, and brand. The one I got was $30 (see my first reply to lowfi in this thread) but they can easily go into the hundreds.


----------



## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

tropism said:


> Right, and to clarify again (just in case): it ONLY kills stuff that flows through the unit, nothing that doesn't. That means it won't kill algae or bacteria attached to surfaces in the aquarium. Here's a decent diagram of a UV Sterilizer: UV Sterilizer Design. You can get more in-depth info on how they work here: http://americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html That site is geared more towards 24/7 use in an aquarium (which isn't necessary for green water) but it's got a lot of good info. I've only had to use mine twice in the last two years for less than 2 days at a time. [-begin edit-] ...for green water. I've used it for maybe a total 2 months in a quarantine tank. [-end edit-]
> 
> Prices vary quite a bit depending on what size tank you have, what you'll be using it for (constant use vs. short term use, disease control vs. occasional killing of GW), what type of installation you want (inside vs. outside the tank, etc), whether you need an extra pump for it or not, and brand. The one I got was $30 (see my first reply to lowfi in this thread) but they can easily go into the hundreds.


So bascially they are good to have on hand becuase they kill all parasites and green water
that gets circulated thru the device correct?
Also this does not disturb the co2, I have a 30 gallon tank.
So why the price differs, why could you find one for 30 and one for 100....
My water gets somewhat green, but Im also thinkin about having it run all the time so I
can ensure no parasites get my fish sick...


----------



## Legacy2005 (Sep 18, 2007)

the price difference comes from various things:
1.voltage of bulb
2. in tank or inline
3. internal design

the uv one i tried was around $30, it had 2 sponge filters on it as well as a directional nozzle and a spot to add air.

i picked up the diatom xl from one of the online stores for 30 less the LFS was selling it for. and after registering it with diatom they sent me a free package of powder.


----------



## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

Which one works best? UV or Diatom ?


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

???
Both pieces of equipment do different things. So in that regard neither works better than the other.
But if you are asking which one works best for algae control or elimination of an algae outbreak my vote would be for the UV in conjunction with daily water changes. To keep the algae bloom from happening again you need to solve the cause, not solve the result.

Above we talked about what is a UV, not much on a Diatom. A diatom filter is similar to an external filter that you run continuously. It has a pump (albeit more powerful) and it has filter media (usually a sock filter). The main difference is you add the "powder" (Diatomaceaous earth) which refines the filtering process to allow the user to filter the really fine particles suspended in the water column to achieve clean water.

hope that helps


----------



## Legacy2005 (Sep 18, 2007)

they both work well for what they are designed for. the uv is more of a long term item that you can run everyday. where as the diatom is good for spot cleaning every once in a while, makes the water sparkling clean, but can get plugged up after extended use since it filters out such fine particles.


----------



## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

I have run a UV 24/7 for the past 2 years on my 72g. It is a win-win and there is very little downside. If you have a cansister filter and it's plumbed inline you pretty much set it and forget it. 

It's a great companion to have if you like to rescape and are concerned about GW from stirring up Ammonia, etc. And yes if the flow rate is slow enough it will kill parasites as well so my tank has not seen any ICH or other parasites since I can remember.


----------



## lowfi (Apr 18, 2007)

what system are you running on yer 72? I have a 20 so im debating which size to buy for a UV


----------



## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

You can run vortex diatom filters 24/7. Mines been running for about 8 months now non stop. Works better than a UV since it polishes the water and removes the algae. UV only kills the algae dumping the dead cells into the water where they rot. So basically you clean the diatom filter or do water changes, the maintenance is pretty much the same IMO


----------



## mikenas102 (Feb 8, 2006)

I've also been running a UV 24/7 for about a year and a half. I would never setup another tank without one.


----------



## Legacy2005 (Sep 18, 2007)

zapins, do you keep reusing the same powder or do you switch the powder every so often id love to run mine constantly at a lower flow rate but the powder is way to costly to constantly change.


----------



## tropism (Jul 21, 2006)

Maybe you guys with UV filters already know, but for other people reading this that are considering UV filters: If you run them 24/7, they lose a lot of their effectiveness in 6-12 months, and by a year and a half it's doubtful they're doing much of anything. The bulbs need to be replaced at least yearly. Also, they usually have a (*very fragile*) quartz sleeve that bulb fits into that needs to be cleaned (usually with acid) at the same time. The UV causes minerals in the water to build up on the quartz sleeve, which blocks the UV from getting to the water. This may not be as big of a problem with softer water, but it would still need to be checked when the bulbs are replaced.

We have a pond at our house that has several large UV sterilizers always running. If we forget to change the bulbs and clean the sleeves in the spring, GW takes over when the water starts to warm up. It's much easier to balance the water in an aquarium though, and using a UV sterilizer all the time has not been necessary in my experience. Again, 2 days use killed the GW and it didn't come back for more than a year for me. I personally don't think it harms anything to run it all the time, but it *might* break down chelates (how much an effect it has is debated), so you *may* have to add more micros/iron than you would without the UV running.

If you're wanting a 24/7 UV setup, be prepared to pay more for an external unit, do extra plumbing, and change the bulb and clean the sleeve yearly.

I agree with everything Zapins has said on this thread except for the statement about the maintenance being the same. First, unless you're cleaning out the diatom filter daily, the algae will die and decay in the diatom filter -- doesn't matter whether they're rotting in the filter or rotting in the tank. With either the diatom or the UV, most of the stuff would be killed within the first day or two so the amount of dead stuff rotting after that would be negligible. The only *extra* water change that would be necessary with a UV unit would be a one time thing, and only if you put it on to kill an existing severe GW outbreak. With a UV unit, you usually only have yearly maintenance on the unit itself.

Zapins: I don't mean this to sound confrontational -- I'm genuinely curious.... how often do you have to change the media and clean the diatom filter since you have it running all the time?


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Legacy2005 said:


> zapins, do you keep reusing the same powder or do you switch the powder every so often id love to run mine constantly at a lower flow rate but the powder is way to costly to constantly change.


Diatomaceous Earth (DE) is used in swimming pool filters routinely, so you can get the powder at a swimming pool supply store. I have to believe it would be very much cheaper there than at the LFS, since everything else is. I used that type filter on a pool for about a year and it wasn't expensive at all. As I recall, I could also get the DE powder at the large chain grocery stores.


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

Kind of what I was thinking Hoppy. I could not remember if DE was used in pools or not. Good call.


----------



## Cliff Mayes (Jan 29, 2007)

I got rid of the Vortec a long time ago. Too much juice and turmoil and I did not like the mess with the DE. They did work like a charm though.

I switched over to the Magnum with the micron filter sleeve and it works OK. I used it last year to clean up some Green Water and it took almost two days. After a few hours from the git go I had to take it apart and clean it, 'cause it got clogged. 

I am going to pull the trigger on a UV unit this year. The prices have come down a lot and it seems as if it would be a good tool to have, just in case. I am a lazy hobbyist so whatever works easier is cool.

Zapins; I too am very interested in specifics. Tank size and maintenance schedule, please.


----------



## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

Top 10 Reasons to Get a UV:

10. To prevent greewwater
9. To remove greenwater
8. Kill bacteria
7. Kill parasites
6. Water is so clear, babies and animals bump into tank 
5. Stir up your substrate and say "Who cares I got a UV"
4. Water is so clean you can bottle it
3. Water is so clear you'll think you've gone emersed
2. Debate it here on APC

and the number one reason is:

to "Destroy The Brain Eating Amoeba before it goes up your nose"


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

=D> GOOD ONE houseofcards


----------



## ZakkWylde (Nov 15, 2007)

I had amazing results with a Vortex D1, cleared a bad case of green algae in 20 minutes to a perfectly crystal clear tank, I had forgotten what the back of my tank looked like. Keep in mind diatoms may remove zooplankton also however, which can help eat phytoplankton. As far as the good nitrifying bacteria and other micronutrients it doesnt touch it.


----------



## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

Ok now that I read all the good things a UV Sterlizer does Im convinced.
I'm currently fighting a war with algae. My water is mild green, meaning not too much
but noticable when doing water changes. Algae keeps hitting my plants and film algae will build
up on my glass usually in about 5-6 days.... Also I dont wanna worry about parisites and what not so Ive decided to run one 24-7. Whats a good unit that yall can link me to?
I want the best quality UV with the best price.... Thanks


----------



## Brilliant (Jun 25, 2006)

tropism said:


> Brilliant didn't mean that diatom filters wouldn't work for GW, just that GW and sterilization is what UV filters are for.
> 
> Oh, and don't ever breath in the diatom powder... it's extremely bad for your lungs.


Thank you. 



kwc1974 said:


> ???
> Both pieces of equipment do different things. So in that regard neither works better than the other.
> 
> hope that helps


Yup that helps.

Another note...
Keep in mind if you purchase DE at pool store there is probability it will contain chlorine. There is a warning on the bag telling you that. I purchase the 10lb bags and they last a while. Ive only been using a half cup each use on my XL. There is no doubt pool store DE is cheaper I get a 50lb bag for the pool same price as my fish store's 10lb bag without warning.


----------



## kwc1974 (Jan 4, 2006)

Brilliant,
Thanks for the quote


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Brilliant said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Yup that helps.
> 
> ...


That is a very good point! I retract my comment about using swimming pool DE powder. I find it odd they would put chlorine in it, but I suppose that is a good selling point for a pool use.


----------



## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

:O I didn't know they added chlorine to it at pool shops! I'll have to check my bag in case its got chlorine in it, I got a 50Lb bag for like 10$ which will last me a lifetime if it is fish safe.


----------



## MiSo (Nov 4, 2005)

i bought the 9 watt uv sterilizer from petsmart for my 75 gallon tank. it was in for about 2 weeks and didnt put a dent in the green water. so i bought a vortex diatom xl. within a few hours water was pristine!


----------



## tropism (Jul 21, 2006)

Yeah, the 9 watt UV from Petsmart (same thing I have) would not be sufficient for a 75 gallon tank. The design of that unit doesn't allow for optimal contact time with the UV light so it needs a pretty slow flow rate to kill stuff. It only pumps 50 gph, so there would probably always be too much of the GW algae still alive and multiplying for you to notice a difference. It says it can be used for tanks up to 53 gallons, but IMO, if you're tank is above 40 gallons you'd be better served by their 24 watt (with 106 gph flow rate) model, a more efficient 9+ watt model from a different brand*, or a diatom filter. Diatom filters DEFINITELY have UV sterilizers beat when it comes to speed, but there are advantages/disadvantages to both (what this whole thread has been about I guess ). Thanks for sharing that, MiSo!

*for example: Coralife's 9 watt TurboTwist is supposed to handle flow rates 100-200 gph and is good for aquariums up to 125 gallons -- don't have first-hand experience to know if it would actually work for aquariums that big. It's also external and doesn't have a pump.


----------



## tropism (Jul 21, 2006)

About the diatom powder from pool supply stores: I don't know how expensive the stuff is from the pet stores vs the pool supply places. _If the cost justifies the extra work_, could you setup the filter on a bucket with some water with dechlorinator in it and run it like that for a few minutes before you put it on the tank? I guess it depends on how much chlorine is in it. Could just be residual chlorine from processing the diatoms or it could actually be a chlorine powder they add to it.

Zapins, have you already used any of the diatom powder you got from the pool shop? If you have and you didn't kill off any of your tank's inhabitants, then chances are there's very little or no chlorine in it. I'd add a little dechlorinator to the tank when you change the powder though, just to be on the safe side.


----------



## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

_*for example: Coralife's 9 watt TurboTwist is supposed to handle flow rates 100-200 gph and is good for aquariums up to 125 gallons -- don't have first-hand experience to know if it would actually work for aquariums that big. It's also external and doesn't have a pump._

That's the one I have on my 72g. Everyone's mileage might vary, but GW should clear up with it since the flow rate can vary alot. If you want the added benefit of parasite kill then you would have to have a slower flow. It works great for me since I'm not a believer of large flow. I would say the effective GPH on my 72g is about 80 (Eheim Ecco 2236) so I get the added benefit of parasite kill. Make sure you hook it up on the output side of your filter this way cleaner water is passing through the UV. I change my bulb once a year and that's it.


----------

