# Need advice:converting 250g reef to FWplanted



## jb1974 (Sep 19, 2005)

I will be converting my 250 g reef (55" long * 32" front/back * 30" tall) reef aquarium into a planted FW tank. I am not sure what equipment I should be keeping and what I will need.

I would like to continue using MH, and because of the depth (30") I was thinking one of my 400watt MH with the lumenarc reflector would work out fine. I could run it for 8 hours a day then run 2 110 w VHO for 12 hours on top of that. The whole tank is partially built into the wall and all is enclosed into a cabinet.

I have CO2 with solenoid/regulator, I also will be using the existing sump. The sump can be made into a trickle filter (are these still used now-a-days?).

I am wondering also about substrate for such a large tank. What should I use? Just plain silica? If I am dosing CO2 will I not need to add anything else?

If anyone has any suggestions for how I should set this up for success I would be most grateful


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## jb1974 (Sep 19, 2005)

I forgot to add...I also have a 250watt HQI pendant if the 400watt is too much...


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

You definately look to be running a high light/maint tank. As such, CO2 is a big issue and you seem to have thought about that. One thing with CO2 is that water water aggitation degasses CO2. I'd think that a trickle filter will really work against you in removing CO2. Not many people use sumps with FW planted tanks, but some do. I believe Gnatster has and will be of most help here. Usually we just make a DIY inline reactor and hook it up to a canister filter on the output side.

With high light, plain silica would not be my choice. I'd go with a substrate that has more to offer the plants such as: Eco-complete, flourite, onyx sand/gravel, Aquasoil, Shultz aquatic soil etc. They all have +'s and -'s. It comes down to how much you want to spend and does color matter to you. I personally like eco complete for the look (if you want dark) and Aquasoil for performance ($$$).

Another thing is that with high light/CO2 comes ferts. I prefer to go the DIY route as it is MUCH cheaper on large tanks. www.gregwatson.com is your friend. You will probably want to get KH, pH, NO3, PO4 test kits. Eventually you will figure things out by eye and won't test anymore.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

A trickle filter/sump can burn off C02 if there is a lot of splashing. Plants only need a total of 12 hours a day of light. Anything beyond that is not needed and will only make it tougher to battle algae.

If you have actinic lights, there is no need for them in freshwater. If you want to keep the tank low maintenance, (you have a pretty deep tank to be constantly reaching in to prune plants) stick with slow growing plants. I would keep the lights at around 2.5 watts per gallon of water for 12 hours a day. As I understand it, MHs only cover about 4 square feet. Your tank is what, five feet long? It would be better to have two MHs of lower wattage. (two 250 watt bulbs spaced evenly would be perfect) Use a simple clay gravel substrate with perhaps a little peat on the bottom, and a moderate level of C02, 15 tp 20ppm max. Refer to a pH/KH chart to determin your C02 level. http://www.aquabotanic.com/charts.htm All the substrates Gomer mentioned are basically clay gravel. Clay is used because it is inert, contains mostly iron but possibly other minerals, and it is capable of absorbing nutrients from the water.

If it were me I would use cannister filters instead of a sump. Have two instead of only one. Feed the C02 into a external reactor connected to the outflow of the cannister filter.

For plants that you do not need to prune often, go with Swords, ferns, Anubias, Vallisneria, Sagittaria, Crinums, Cryptocorynes and slow growing stem plants such as Lysimachia, Nesaea, Ludwigia glandulosa, or stem plants you can trim without having to up root and re plant, such as Micranthemoides, Hydrocotyle, or Cardamine. Smaller grass plants could be used which will spread out on their own without a great need for re-planting or thinning to often. This would include E. tenellus and dwarf sag, or even hairgrass if it is not shaded by other plants.

You can seed the substrate with fertilizer tablets for minerals as well as NPK, (nitrogen-phosphate-potassium)


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

Your 400 watt MH pendant is probably enough light to grow a lot of plants. A good friend of mine has a 215 gallon tank built into the wall and he uses 2 x 250 watt MH lighting and it seems perfect. You will likely want to change the bulbs out as I doubt they are a lower color temp than 10,000K. You want to find bulbs in the 5,500K-10,000K color temperature range. Once you find a selection in that range it's really just a matter of finding the highest performing bulb (CRI) and which one gives off the color you like best. 

Seeing as how you have a sump already do you have a pump on it that can be used externally? If so I would get an Ocean Clear or Nu Clear canister filter for that tank. You should be able to find one for about $100.00 and they work with any external pump of your choice so flow is controlled by your choice in pumps.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

A metal halide has a triangle light dispersement. The most intense light is directly below the center of the bulb. As you get further way on either side the light gets weaker. If you had one 400 watt MH, the light would be extremely intense directly underneath, and weaker around the edges. With two MHs, you will have much more even light dispersement without it being too much directly under each bulb. Make sense?


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## TWood (Dec 9, 2004)

With a tank that deep and a single 400W MH lamp you could try a center valley layout that would accomodate the varying light intensity. Use either the hardscape, or grow taller plants on each side and shorter ones in the middle for the same effect. 

Didn't George Booth do some tests that showed little loss of CO2 in sumps that were adequately sealed?

TW


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

jb,

That's a tough call. I wouldn't use the 400w mh regardless, that's a lot too much light for such a small area for a planted tank. Now, if acropora would grow in fresh water.... 

I would use the VHO 10-12 hrs/day and plan on using lower light plants on the majority of the space. If you have the room to add some more VHO it would be a good idea, you're on the bottom end of low lighting with the 220w VHO. 440 would be even better. The HQI would make for a nice spotlight where higher light stemplants could be featured. You should give jsenske a pm, he deals with large tanks just like this for a living and does better at it than anyone I know of. 

If you have an auto topoff system for your sump, keep using it for your planted tank. The higher the water, the less agitation you'll get and the more CO2 you'll retain in the water. As long as you realize that your CO2 consumption is going to be fairly high and are prepared for it it's not a big deal. I've run sumps before and found them to be very effective and more CO2 efficient than a lot of folks think. 

I'm assuming that your CO2 system was for a Calcium reactor and that you've got a pH monitor and CO2 controller. That will help you out a lot with efficiency. In fact, putting bioballs in place of the aragonite media would make a killer CO2 reactor! The generally lower light will give the tank a slow metabolism which will conserve CO2 that much more. 

Regards,
Phil


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Another factor will be if we are talking about MHs in an overhanging fixture over an open top tank or in an enclosed canopy. In a canopy more of the light will be directed downward. If it is in a spot light fixture on an open top, some of the light will go out into the room.



> Didn't George Booth do some tests that showed little loss of CO2 in sumps that were adequately sealed?


He also states that bio wheels do not deplete C02, which also is contridictory to common belief.


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

One thing that most people are surprised by is the sheer number of plants you will need for that sized tank in order to make sure you start out heavily planted.

So once you sort out everything else, be ready to gather *alot* of plants for your installation...


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## jb1974 (Sep 19, 2005)

Thanks for all the feedback guys 

I have finally made the switch to FW planted, it only took 2 years to decide LOL! 

I am having a few problems though...

Here is some background:

Substrate: 12 bags eco complete, 4 bags flourite mixed
Lighting: 2 * 250w 6500k MH in reflectors (pretty good spred with the luminarcs)-on for 4 hours
4 * 110 w VHO on for 12 hours

Thanks for the advice on the lighting guys  The 400's may have been a bit too bright...the 2 x 250's work out well.

The tank is actually 2/3 recessed into the living room wall with custom bookshelves/cabinets surrounding it. The MH are sitting 16" off the water surface which I guess helps with the spred. 

CO2: into a DIY reactor in sump
Wet/dry with lid (does this need to be 100% airtight to prevent degassing of CO2?). I have a lid on it now which covers the wet/dry but I know it is not 100% airtight.

Water: 2/3 RO, 1/3 tap

ph: 8.3-4 Here is my first problem...based on my KH (100 ppm) and even though I am injecting 3-4 bps of CO2 the co2 chart says I am only at 1-2 ppm CO2. I can get it to drop to 8.1 after a few days but as soon as I do a waterchange it creeps back up to 8.3. 

Is it the KH that prevents the co2 from dropping the ph or are my overflows degassing too much? If I were to put back in my old durso standpipes would I see a big difference? Maybe I should use mostly RO and then just remineralize the water (Eg. RO right)? Or is the reactor not large enough? The pH of the reactor effluent is 6.8 so it appears to be working.

Does anyone have any suggestions? As you can tell I am quite confused here...

BTW, I added tons (the tank is packed) of plants, but until i get the CO2 issue resolved I guess I shouldn't be adding fertilizers??


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Only took you 2 years, huh? 

First the obvious questions, are you sure your kh and pH kits are accurate? Is there anything in the water affecting pH? If your kits are accurate and nothing is affecting the measurements, I would assume that either your reactor is not adequate and/or you're degassing with your set up. Your kh is fine and shouldn't be an issue here.

I don't have any experience with tanks that size, so can't comment on how much is needed to achieve optimal CO2. Hopefully others can add here. 

As far as ferts, IMO, you should have some nutrients there for the plants. Most importantly is getting that CO2 up there. Until you do, maintain a fairly low photoperiod to minimize algae issues. Good luck!


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## jb1974 (Sep 19, 2005)

Well after alot of work and tweaking I finally managed to get the pH down to 7 
The dursos helped, but removing the dry part of the wet/dry filter seemed to make a big difference as well. 

My hubby also built a HUGE CO2 reactor with a recirc/ needlewheel pump which aspirates the co2 upon entry and then also has its input from the top of the reactor to grab any remaining co2 to recirculate it again... so now I do not have to set the co2 at 6 bps but rather 3 which is much better.

So, I guess I had better start fertilizing now 

Thanks again for everyones help...hopefully I will get to see some pearling in the near future


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## dhuynh (Jun 29, 2007)

Great thread guys! I'm glad I found it. I'm currently in the process of converting my 500 gal reef to a fw planted tank.  

Great idea on converting the CA reactor to a Co2 reactor.


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## Sushiman (Aug 26, 2007)

Keep us updated! I'm about to convert my 90gal reef over to the green side so your experiences will be most appreciated!


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Interesting thread. I'm not sure how I missed it before. Big planted tanks are enormously interesting (at least to me).  I'd love it if you could share some photos of the setup, hardware, aquascape, in-wall installation, etc. I'd especially love to see the CO2 reactor. Ex-reefers bring some things to the "planted" world that many of us would never think of. Automation and higher-end equipment are two that come to mind.


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## Sushiman (Aug 26, 2007)

we're compulsive tinker /DIY'ers (have to, everything costs so damn much!). I'm looking forward to adapting alot of my exsisting equipment for this new F/W set-up.


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