# When should I notice a change?



## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

On Saturday(Feb. 9th), I had added some peat to my filter to create a blackwater condition for my betta and to help soften the water.

Well, It's been a week now and when I went to test the water's GH and KH, the only thing that lowered was the KH which went from 22dKH to 19dKH. I'm using some broken up Peat Plates by Hagen to help soften the water. Should I have noticed a change in the GH by now or will it take some time since the water is rather hard?

Thank you.


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## Dzidek1983 (Dec 13, 2007)

to be honest... 

you probably won't see any change....

your water hardness (both Kh and Gh) is way to high for the peat to actually affect your water parameters

you probably will only see brown water...

this could work if you would had your hardness parameters about 10, not 20

then you could notice about 3-4 points fall in your hardness and Ph values


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Dzidek1983 said:


> to be honest...
> 
> you probably won't see any change....
> 
> ...


There's a pet store in my town that has even harder water then mine and they've successfully softened it with just peat moss so that's why I'm giving it a try. I think the man who is in charge of the fish department there said it took longer then usual to soften it but it did soften eventually.

I've read up on a lot of sites about water hardness and I never came across one that said it's impossible to soften hard water when it's at a certain level.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

By the time the change happens you might be ready for a water change. 
Why not just get some RO water and add it gradually, each time you top off? 
And try some small water changes, perhaps 10% with pure RO water, no minerals added.
Peat can work, but it will sure take a while. If you start with water that is closer to your goal, then you will reach that goal a lot easier.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Diana K said:


> By the time the change happens you might be ready for a water change.
> Why not just get some RO water and add it gradually, each time you top off?
> And try some small water changes, perhaps 10% with pure RO water, no minerals added.
> Peat can work, but it will sure take a while. If you start with water that is closer to your goal, then you will reach that goal a lot easier.


I have considered doing at least a 25% water change to help speed things along but I have to buy a siphon first and I want to do it in smaller amounts like half a gallon a day(I know that sounds strange). The last time I did a water change was when I had changed about 3 gallons of water when I had some nitrites in the tank when I had first set it up and that had dropped the pH down from 8.2 to 7.4 so I want to do things gradually so my betta and snails won't be affected by any sudden change in the water parameters.


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

There was a recent article in TFH in which Jack Wattley addresses this same issue. Basically, he says that adding peat to an aquarium has minimal effects. You have to add I think it's something like 1 - 3 Cups of peat for every 5 - 10 gals. of water. (Sorry, I don't have the article in front of me so I don't remember the exact numbers.) Then you have to replace the peat every 2 days or so as that's about as long as the peat will last before it leeches out all its tannins. If you want to create blackwater conditions, you can add Kent's Blackwater Expert. I've had good success with it and it turns the water a nice yellow/brown color. You could also add a couple of indian almond leaves to the tank. 

What is your pH in the tank? Are the fish showing signs of stress? I keep my bettas in slightly less hard (though still quite hard) water than yours and I've had them breed and they never show any signs of stress. 

-ricardo


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

flagg said:


> There was a recent article in TFH in which Jack Wattley addresses this same issue. Basically, he says that adding peat to an aquarium has minimal effects. You have to add I think it's something like 1 - 3 Cups of peat for every 5 - 10 gals. of water. (Sorry, I don't have the article in front of me so I don't remember the exact numbers.) Then you have to replace the peat every 2 days or so as that's about as long as the peat will last before it leeches out all its tannins. If you want to create blackwater conditions, you can add Kent's Blackwater Expert. I've had good success with it and it turns the water a nice yellow/brown color. You could also add a couple of indian almond leaves to the tank.
> 
> What is your pH in the tank? Are the fish showing signs of stress? I keep my bettas in slightly less hard (though still quite hard) water than yours and I've had them breed and they never show any signs of stress.
> 
> -ricardo


He's not actually showing signs of stress. It's just that the hard water is starting to damage a few of his rays and that's the reason why I want to try to soften it for him. The pH is at 8.2 but I think it's the general hardness that's taking it's toll on his rays. That's why I want to try the peat to see if it would help. At least the KH dropped a bit when I added it!

I forgot to mention this. I normally add some Tetra Blackwater Extract to his water but with the KH as well as the GH being so high, I'd have to keep adding it until the water was a very dark brown and then my plants would suffer from the lack of lighting.

I had taken a 4 litre jug of water(a little over one gallon) and the only way I could actually lower the pH in the jug was to add enough BWE to treat five gallons of water and that had dropped the pH down from 7.8 to 7.5! I can't even imagine how dark the tank water would be if I added double or triple the amount of BWE for ten gallons of water!


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## bartoli (May 8, 2006)

Red_Rose said:


> I have very hard water and the water in the tank is even harder then the tap water because of the gravel I'm using so I really don't think I'd have to worry about the water becoming soft on me.





Red_Rose said:


> I normally add some Tetra Blackwater Extract to his water but with the KH as well as the GH being so high, I'd have to keep adding it until the water was a very dark brown and then my plants would suffer from the lack of lighting.


May be it is worth replacing the gravel that has been making your tank water harder than the tap water.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

bartoli said:


> May be it is worth replacing the gravel that has been making your tank water harder than the tap water.


Since my plants are fine, I'd rather not tear down the whole tank just to replace the gravel. Even though I have not noticed a change when I test the water, I have noticed that my plants are doing even better now that the peat is in there. I'm getting new shoots forming from nodes that hasn't had a leaf on it for quite some time. I think I'd rather still try to soften the water instead of replacing the gravel.

Thanks for the suggestion though.


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## bartoli (May 8, 2006)

You're welcome. Yes, your plants are doing fine. But your fish is in jeopardy and that is why you have been trying to soften the water.

As long as the gravel stays in the tank, the battle to soften the water may never end.


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

Bettas can withstand pretty hard water, up to 22dGH. How do you know that that's what's causing your betta's fin's damage? I've never heard of hard water causing fin or ray damage. What exactly is the nature of the problem you're seeing? Have you tested for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? Could you be seeing a case of fin rot?

-ricardo


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

flagg said:


> Bettas can withstand pretty hard water, up to 22dGH. How do you know that that's what's causing your betta's fin's damage? I've never heard of hard water causing fin or ray damage. What exactly is the nature of the problem you're seeing? Have you tested for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? Could you be seeing a case of fin rot?
> 
> -ricardo


The water in the tank is at 28dGH. From the tap it's 24dGH. Some people on a betta forum had told me that harder water can damage CT's rays so that's why I'm assuming it's from the water. I also think it's from him slithering around like a worm across the substrate when he's hunting. His anal, caudal and dorsal fin tend to get dragged along the gravel when he's on the hunt for live food. I know it's not fin rot because my betta had that before(when he was in his smaller tank) and he doesn't have any of the symptoms for it and I had posted pictures of what a couple of his rays look like on another forum and they said it wasn't fin rot. Most of the people that I've talked to have dealt with betta fin rot before so they know what to look for.

The ends(just the tips) of his rays look like they get floppy as if they lost the bone in them and then they usually fall off. This hasn't happened to all of his rays, just a few of them. I had checked his water parameters last night and everything is at 0ppm.


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