# Rumynosed tetras



## The old man (Apr 12, 2008)

I've had a 29 gallon tank set up since about thanksgiving with various fish such as zebra loaches, corys, ottos, 1 bristlenosed cat, and several baby mollies and swordtails. The tank is well planted and was getting pressuried co2 about 2 bps. Saturday I moved out most of the babies and got 20 rumynosed tetras. They looked good and quickly colored up nicely and seemed fine. Monday 
I found three dead, tuesday about 5 more died and this morning I'm down to about 5. None showed any signs of distress until about 1/2 hour before dying they would swim slowly around very irratic and end up at the bottom on their back unable to move. None of the other fish in the tank seems effected. The tetras were acclimated to the water very slowly using the drip method and all seemed fine up till their death. I expect the last five to be dead soon. Could it have been caused by them not being used to co2? I cut it off last night hoping to save the last five. Any ideas what could be the problem with them? They show no outward signs of disease.


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## niko (Jan 28, 2004)

My first question would be how long where these fish quarantined before being put up for sale.

I import rare fish and seeing the fish dead in the shipping bag is in a way better than to watch them die in the next several days for no apparent reason. They exibit no signs of any disease, they color up well and eat well. One explanation is that the elevated Ammonia in the shipping bags poisons them slowly. By the way our last batch of rummynoses did exactly that - about 25% of the fish died gradually. Now, 2 weeks after arrival the survivals are all fine.

So if you got the fish from a store that didn't quarantine them (or their supplier didn't) the risk is pretty high.

And an interesting detail - there is a variation of the rummynose called "Sunset". These rummynoses' coloration is like the regular (true) rummynoses. But the white/black tail has much more constrast and the head completely glows orange/red. It's like a better version of the true rummynose. I love rummynoses but that variation is out of this world. Our second batch of the "Sunset" turned out to be albino rummynoses shipped by mistake.

--Nikolay


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## Six (May 29, 2006)

That is a ton of fish to add to a 29 at once. It could be water quality issues or just a bad batch of fish. I'm guessing just stress from stocking so quickly. did you do any water tests? 

I doubt it was co2. 

when rummynose come into stores they usually lose 50% or so. If you bought them right after they got them in this is likely the main cause. If they've been in the store a while, it's likely the new tank and stocking.

GL

Around here that would have cost $4x20= $80. hopefully you didnt lose that much.


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## The old man (Apr 12, 2008)

This store quarentines their fish, so guess I may have put to many in to begin with. They run 10 for $20 so if they all end up dying I might try only 10 next time. I'll check with the store friday and see how their tank of them is doing now. Water tests fine except being a bit high in kh and gh.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Rummies are notoriously hard to acclimate, and what happened to you is something we hear about quite often.

I've never personally had that problem, but I've heard that once they get used to your conditions (if you can get them through the initial phase), they will do fine.
It was probably a good move to turn the C02 off for a while since most fish stores don't use it, nor do most suppliers.

Since Rummies are so small, and being that you moved other fish out of the tank, I don't think adding 20 was unreasonable at all.

I hope the rest pull through for you.


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## The old man (Apr 12, 2008)

The 5 made it thru today and seem ok tonight. I'll be getting probably about 10 more this weekend and keep the co2 off and see how they do. I will also check the suppliers tank and ask him also as he is usually quite helpful with problems. I really thought the tank had been aged properly and all the other fish are still doing fine. I knew that the Rummies were hard to acclimate, but didn't realize how hard if you not used to them and they used to you.


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## The old man (Apr 12, 2008)

Friday I bought 20 more (15 and 5 free) as the fish in dealers tank were still just fine. I had cut off my co2 and before adding these I did a water change and added an air stone. Today they are still all fine and seem much more active than the others. The ottos, corys and loaches are also more active. All fish are eating well. The last batch started dying the third day so hoping these make it thru next week. Will post again next week with an update.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

I'm glad to hear the new ones are doing so much better. You must have hit the nail on the head with the C02 thing.


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## 808aquatics (Sep 26, 2008)

Glad to here your rummy's are doing well. I have been through some similiar situations as you where. I have notice Rummy nose's are really fragile at first but once they get over that hump they will grow to be very beautiful fish and they really stand out in you planted tank. You should post up some pic's


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## Six (May 29, 2006)

Why would adding 20 fragile fish at once we OK? I guess I don't understand what others think as far as stocking goes. I would never add that many fish, irregardless of species, to a 29 display tank. JMO, but if they're fragile, the more fish you add at once the more issues there will be, even with co2 shock.


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## abcemorse (May 28, 2008)

I'm with Six, that's a lot of fish, of any kind, to add to a 29G tank. Bacteria needs time to grow, and 20 fish + the extra food to feed them is, IMO, too much for the existing bacteria colony to handle. Hopefully the new ones will be OK, keep a close eye on them and be ready to do 50% water changes daily if necessary.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

I wouldn't have said that, but the tank was already established and what he took out was more of a load than the Rummy's he put back in.
Granted a 29 gallon isn't the biggest tank, but body mass means a ton in terms of stocking.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

I've had mixed success with rummies. Despite that I'm continually drawn to them. Nothing schools better and they're high-end for coloration when it comes to tetras.

I've added 20 and had 2 survivors by 48 hours. Other times I've added 50 and had 50 survive. My acclimiation routine hasn't changed. I thoroughly convinced that it's the condition of the fish. They're almost 100% wild-caught and some fare better than others in transport. Some dealers are more interested in getting them sold than in making sure they're healthy first.

I'll never buy them from an LFS again. I now use a couple of mail-order sites that I've had too-good-to-be-true success with. 50/50 rummy survivors 20/20 cardinal survivors. In fact, with one particular vendor I've never had a DOA and I've never lost a fish within the first month.


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## The old man (Apr 12, 2008)

Well, here they are doing just fine now after 5 days. None have died this second time around. 
I really think it was a matter of low oxygen level and to much co2 that they were not used to at the dealers. Note that I still have an air stone running and they seem quite active and healthy. Since they were the only fish that seemed effected I would recommend a good aclimation time with plenty of oxygen. I really like their colors and will be slowly turning down the oxygen. Plants show no signs of being effected by the lower co2 and the airstone. Tank is not landscaped well yet, but getting good growth on sword, crypts and Japonica Blyx. What caused the initial stocking to die is up for debate, but I'm a happy camper with the fish and the Steeler Victory anyhow. :first:


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## Six (May 29, 2006)

Also, I just want to point out that LFS don't QT. They may say they do, but ask for details. It's not the same type of QT you should be using at home. They may keep the fish off the sales floor for a week to "QT" them, but usually they are in a system or a tank with other massive amounts of fish. I don't think there's a problem buying LFS stock if you realize you need to QT them as if you bought them offline. 

Other people's QT really isn't the same as your own.


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## Six (May 29, 2006)

BryceM said:


> I'll never buy them from an LFS again. I now use a couple of mail-order sites that I've had too-good-to-be-true success with. 50/50 rummy survivors 20/20 cardinal survivors. In fact, with one particular vendor I've never had a DOA and I've never lost a fish within the first month.


No naming names? I'd like to know.


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## The old man (Apr 12, 2008)

I personally know of at least two lfs that QT here in the Houston area. I've tried to buy fish they had not had in long enough and all were in separate tanks by themselves and were not over the two week period yet.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

The tank looks nice old man, and the rummies look great in there. I'm glad it's all working out for you.

Yes Bryce, share your secret supplier with us.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Send me a PM. The suppliers aren't secret. One is a rather well-known and well-advertised site. They just happen to have particularly good quality IMO. You end up spending more for overnight priority shipping but in the end it's usually worth it.


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## Six (May 29, 2006)

Old Man, you're one of the only ones who has that in a LFS. Most places get confused about what QT actually is. I would still QT myself regardless, but that is just me.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Six said:


> I would still QT myself regardless, but that is just me.


Me too. I always like to quarantine for at least a month, or usually 2 just to keep an eye on them and let them get off to a good start on their own.
Just last summer I picked up some Pseudotropheus saulosi and they looked fine for quite some time, but they did develop something and whatever it was affected my other fish too. I did quarantine them, but apparently not long enough....


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## The old man (Apr 12, 2008)

Being The Old Man I may not have that 2 months or more for QT.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Glenn,

regarding CO2 stress when first adding fish to your tank:

I just bought a few cheapie tetras (Black Skirt/Widow) to get some fish back in the tank after losing everything to a bacteria...long story....

Anyway, I put them in and immediately they showed serious stress and were hugging the surface for some O2. I had my CO2 set at 3-4 bps, and the surviving fish I had were fine with that. SOOOOOO, I cranked down the CO2 way down and everything was fine. Yesterday I cranked up the CO2 back to where it was, and now the new tetras don't seem to notice.

I think when we put new fish into our CO2 injected tanks, it just takes time for them to slowly adjust to having that CO2 pumped in. Maybe that's what happended with your first set of rummies? I guess I'm kinda suggesting that you try increasing your CO2 again, but I don't actually want to say that because if your fish all die it'd be my fault... ray:

-Dave


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

The old man said:


> Being The Old Man I may not have that 2 months or more for QT.


LOL.

Better not buy green bananas either.

You can always set up a simple planted tank as a QT tank. That way you can enjoy it while the new arrivals are settling in. It makes it harder to play the "catch the fish" game, but at least it will be something you can enjoy in the meantime.


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## Six (May 29, 2006)

.... which is how you get MTS...


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Six said:


> .... which is how you get MTS...


Yes, one of the ways..........


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

....which leads to puffers, or loaches....


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