# North American Cryptocoryne Society



## DelawareJim

I'm looking to gage interest in a North American Cryptocoryne Society (NACS) for this side of the pond. Principally Canada, Mexico, and US members but anyone with interest. Hopefully enough interest to reach critical mass and last longer than the initial emotion of the first few months.

I'm hoping to establish affiliations with the European Crypt. Society, the Aquatic Gardeners Association, and with a bit of luck, have a club site on APC with their generous help.

So who's interested?

Cheers.
Jim


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## HeyPK

I am interested. What activities do you envision?


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## HeyPK

Nobody else interested? Can two people make up a society?


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## DelawareJim

Here's what I was thinking of as a description and "mission":

"The North American Cryptocoryne Society (NACS) is an international group with members from Mexico, Canada, and the United States with an interest in the cultivation and study of Cryptocoryne and related species. Membership ranges from the novice to the advanced hobbyist.

Our mission is to educate and promote the study, understanding, and culture, both submersed and emersed, of Cryptocoryne and related species."

I was hoping that eventually, after reaching the critical mass necessary to be sustainable that we would have an annual conference or bring ECS to this side of the pond, maybe coordinate with the ECS to swap plants, and have joint collecting trips for those who were interested.

Pretty ambitious stuff, I know. But since I heard Jan Bastmeijer speak at the AGA convention in DC back in 2004 this idea has haunted me. I think North American is so far behind the curve compared to Europe and Asia in Crypt and Lagenandra knowledge and cultivation.

Cheers.
Jim


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## newellcr

Hello Jim,

I think that there is interest, in general. Starting a new group of any kind is difficult. Maybe a new working committee within the AGA? Who knows if the AGA would even be receptive to that. I dunno, finding capable volunteers with available time and energy is the key. 

Chris


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## DelawareJim

Exactly.

In the short term, a working group within AGA or even ECS would work best and then just let it evolve.


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## SCMurphy

Call me a pessimist but I think you'd have a better chance of making it alone than as a subsection the AGA. The AGA can barely handle what it does now. Try posting your idea to the crypt list, it is still out there.


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## DelawareJim

Hey Sean; I was wondering where you were. Is the Crypt list still alive? I asked about it earlier and "HeyPK" replied that the last message he got was back in something like March 2005.

Cheers.
Jim


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## SnakeIce

Not sure what I could do since I'm here in the sticks for aquarium stuff, but I keep and enjoy my crypts. I would probably fall under the novice or casual crypt keeper but where ever I can voice interest to lend further weight to the idea I'm up for it.


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## Ben Belton

I'm interested. I'm stretched kinda thin, but I would be interested.

Ben


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## DelawareJim

So far it looks like 4 "Yes" including myself, and 1 "maybe". I'm sure we could get more interest once we show we're up and running. I've been with DVAGA for its first couple of meetings and like anything, as word spreads, more interested people joined in.

Think we could get APC to host us on the Local-Regional Clubs Link?

Cheers.
Jim


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## Aquaspot

Very interesting. Is this club open to Asians as well?


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## Kai Witte

Hello NA crypt nuts,

Count me in - I'll try to lend a helping hand if needed...

There's already a growing number of crypts available in NA - keep up the good work!


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## Kai Witte

Hello Jim,

I'd propose to just start networking among interested crypt growers. AFAICT, the key for the annual ECS meetings is the free sharing of experiences and exchange of surplus plants (which also helps to prevent the unfortunate loss of crypts by spreading the risk between more growers).



> In the short term, a working group within AGA or even ECS would work best and then just let it evolve.


Actually, the ECS is not a tightly knit organisation but rather a somewhat anarchic group of friends sharing the same interest: No need to elect a president nor to manage membership fees - just go ahead with the fun stuff! 

I'm confident that Sean can explore ways for cooperation/etc. while he's visiting us though. Let's continue the brain storming and discuss things next week!


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## DelawareJim

Aquaspot;

Sure it can be open to anyone. I think the more people we get involved, the better our chances of survival.

Kai;

Unfortunately I couldn't swing the ECS meeting this year otherwise I'd be coming with Sean. 

I do need to get a better handle on how you folks operate in ECS as well. Attendees are requested to give a presentation of some type if I understand correctly.

Ideally, it would be great to have a centralised clearing house for Crypt sources by species, latest research being conducted, botanical reports, planned and completed collection trips, ecological studies, cultural info for novice to advanced hobbyists, etc.

Cheers.
Jim


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## HeyPK

The thing to remember about any sort of crypt society, is that it will take on the characteristics of the plant it is devoted to. That is, it will be slow. Crypts are slow to grow and multiply. Exchanges will sound like this: 

A: "I am looking for crypt. species X"

B: "I have it. I have a plant in a pot." Give me a year, and, if it multiplies, 
you can have some."


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## Kai Witte

> " Give me a year, and, if it multiplies, you can have some."


Only if you're lucky enough to ask first, Paul...    :biggrin1:

There are several crypts which are really slow in producing daughter plants even if the motherplant is growing well. However, most crypts send out runners within the first 2-6 months under suitable growing conditions. It's worth to share these rather than getting too crowded pots (which sometimes collapse sooner than one expects...).


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## Kai Witte

Hello Jim,



> Unfortunately I couldn't swing the ECS meeting this year otherwise I'd be coming with Sean.


That would have been a blast! Hope you make it next year.



> I do need to get a better handle on how you folks operate in ECS as well.


I bet Sean will have some stories to tell when he's back. 



> Attendees are requested to give a presentation of some type if I understand correctly.


Most people attending the last events already shared pics/results of their plants, collecting trips and/or research. This year's meeting is focusing a bit on soil/substrates and other growing conditions and I'm looking forward to discussing approaches from all participating growers!



> Ideally, it would be great to have a centralised clearing house for Crypt sources by species, latest research being conducted, botanical reports, planned and completed collection trips, ecological studies, cultural info for novice to advanced hobbyists, etc.


I think that's what Jan is aiming at with his crypt pages - I'm sure he could use some more support with pics, cultivation notes, etc. though...


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## SCMurphy

Jan told me I'm required to talk. Since my aquariums are all using a soil substrate, my talk should fit right in. It's a 10 minute limit, being from MA, I can talk as fast as anyone. 

I did get my permits in order to bring plants home, but the nature of the exchange is that you 'exchange'. I am showing up like a beggar because we don't keep the plants the way they do. I have nothing they want, and that is a very odd position for me. Knowing that, I won't be able to help but be shy about getting plants, it's just my nature. The only thing going for me is that I have filled up many buckets for people who come to my house, I'm praying for karma to work for me. 

The ECS focus is the emmersed growth version of the plant, identifiable to location of collection. Anyone who gets plants from me when I come back is going to have to promise to maintain that idea of keeping the identification information with the plant. I'm currently cleaning up my workspace at home to accommodate some emmersed setups. I am going to have a huge amount of stuff to get rid of before I go to make room for what I might bring back. I wonder if the catfish convention will take plants in their auction. If I wasn't going to miss the GWAPA meeting this wouldn't be so bad.


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## Aquaspot

HeyPK said:


> The thing to remember about any sort of crypt society, is that it will take on the characteristics of the plant it is devoted to. That is, it will be slow. Crypts are slow to grow and multiply. Exchanges will sound like this:
> 
> A: "I am looking for crypt. species X"
> 
> B: "I have it. I have a plant in a pot." Give me a year, and, if it multiplies,
> you can have some."


On a hobbyist's level, YES. But not when it comes to us.

Aquaspot World could help in the photos and obtaining Crypts that you folks don't often come across. And of course any other information we could supply.


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## SCMurphy

DelawareJim said:


> Hey Sean; I was wondering where you were. Is the Crypt list still alive? I asked about it earlier and "HeyPK" replied that the last message he got was back in something like March 2005.
> 
> Cheers.
> Jim


Jim,
OK the cryptlist must be dead. My enail just bounced back to me.

Kai, 
I have no contact information for Mr. Sexton.

May I ask which country you reside in? Other that phytosanitary certificate work and the meetings I don't know what Jan is planning. I've been useless to him since I've never been there and I don't have a 'prefered' site seeing area. I have the same attitude as what to plants would I like to bring back 'anything and everything'. Actually I really want to bring home some _C. hudoroi. _
So, what are you bringing to the meetings?


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## Kai Witte

Hi Sean,

PM in the works...


Kai


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## Aaron

I'd be interested in being a part of this. Having a bank of crypts here in the US would be nice. 

I like the idea of keeping things real simple, since there seems to be such a small group of people interested.

Sean, when is ECS? going empty handed to a plant swap is no fun. Maybe we can help by sending some plants with you.

I'd donate to the cause... especially if it means getting hudoroi established in the US


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## Kai Witte

> Jan told me I'm required to talk. Since my aquariums are all using a soil substrate, my talk should fit right in.


Sure, Sean - we won't let you go without hearing some of your experiences! 



> I did get my permits in order to bring plants home, but the nature of the exchange is that you 'exchange'. I am showing up like a beggar because we don't keep the plants the way they do. I have nothing they want, and that is a very odd position for me.


Well, you have at least one usteriana which runners you could offer.  
However, Jan would (possibly  ) beat you with a stick if you really were to do so - make sure to distribute any surplus in NA!

Truth to be told, there are actually super-rare crypts (those with only a few specimens in cultivation) changing hands at ECS meetings but this is based on private contacts among the core growers and the recipient is probably the most likely person within Europe to keep that given species alive and possibly propagate it. However, the main event is based on more numerous plants (usually surplus provided by people lucky enough to have decent greenhouse space) so the general approach is more like an early christmas party than a tit-for-tat exchange. Basically, you receive precious plants and you reciprocate by taking over the responsibility to keep that strain going and distribute any surplus runners (complete with data) as well as sharing experiences gained during your growing attempts with your peers.



> Knowing that, I won't be able to help but be shy about getting plants, it's just my nature.


Nah, just grab the opportunity and "pay back" with your commitment!



> The only thing going for me is that I have filled up many buckets for people who come to my house, I'm praying for karma to work for me.


Yup, that's the spirit! 



> The ECS focus is the emmersed growth version of the plant,


Nah, you're perfectly free how to keep your crypts alive (and eventually make them flower). Of course, when freshly collected plants come in, there is a friendly competition who will be the first to get an inflorescence to verify the identification. However, the final arbiter of success is that you keep those crypt strains alive and distribute them to other interested folks - if you're better in submersed culture just go for it!



> identifiable to location of collection. Anyone who gets plants from me when I come back is going to have to promise to maintain that idea of keeping the identification information with the plant.


That really is important and possibly needs educating fellow crypt nuts.



> I'm currently cleaning up my workspace at home to accommodate some emmersed setups.


You'll bring back a whole variety of crypts. Make sure you can provide suitable growing conditions to blackwater crypts (collect acid leafmould!), crypts from limestone areas (affinis, hudoroi, etc.), river crypts adapted to monsoon climate (e. g. crispatula), etc.! Some crypts will prefer emersed culture while others may easily adapt to planted aquaria filled with tapwater...


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## Kai Witte

Hello Aaron,



> when is ECS?


This coming Friday is the first day of the meeting. 



> Maybe we can help by sending some plants with you.


That won't be necessary unless you have surplus plants with full locality data (or unique aquarium strains of somewhat historical importance).



> I'd donate to the cause... especially if it means getting hudoroi established in the US


Isn't this species available via Singapore?

This is a really good aquarium crypt and I'm pretty sure Sean will be able to distribute some plants.


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## Aaron

Hey Kai,

That soon huh? It was just a thought. 

My collection is small, but I think i have a few good ones with historical/ nostalgic value. Being that they were gifts, it just does not seem right for me to peddle them off to any Joe Schmoe to make a few bucks. Sharing them with fellow enthusiasts seems like the best thing to do. 
As for hudoroi, I've been searching for that one for a while. Singapore has come up empty for me.


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## Purrbox

You can put me down in the interested in more information column. I've got a few fairly common crypts at the moment. Hopefully I'll be able to get positive ID's on them before long since I'm in progress of getting an emersed growth setup put together. Unfortunately with my location I would probably end up missing out when it comes to the get togethers to swap crypts. Gotta love being in the middle of nowhere sometimes.


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## will5

*Hi*

Hi add me and OMBCAT (wilma) keep us up on the info.

*Subscribe*

one crypt i have has caused problems in growing respect by melting and pretty much never comming back for a lot of people. But the person i bought them form has found the key to keeping them alive.

This crypt is Tonkinensis.

Here is a link to where you can read more about and see som pics all though not the best pics.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/crypt-nuts/30202-cryptocoryne-tonkinensis-question.html


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## DelawareJim

Don't forget to mention us at the ECS meeting this weekend. I'd be there if I could.

Cheers.
Jim


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## Kai Witte

Certainly, Jim! I'm sure Sean will function as an ambassador and he also has enough time with Jan to discuss things.

The main drive for the ECS is the sharing of plants and knowledge and in this regard there are already ECS branches developing in North America and elsewhere...


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## Kai Witte

Since ECS plants are becoming available in North America, I should once more emphasize the importance of keeping the supplied locality data and collection numbers with the plants and, even more important, to pass these data along with any surplus plants to fellow crypt growers!

Not only is a lineage without correct data of origin lost for collecting comparative data (pics, growing experiences, samples for botanical research like inflorescences) but also the already gained knowledge on preferred growing conditions as well as appearance/color of plants - both often very different between the (sometimes many) strains becoming available for most species - can't be utilized anymore.

There are certainly people who are contempt to drive a red car. In the long run, however, it helps to know wether it needs gasoline or diesel, and from which company it is to get the correct spare parts...


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## ruki

We could get quite wide distribution of crypts with local aquarium societies. 

It would be fun to get HAP points on new crypts and then watch their offspring keep showing up at the HAP table and auctions. I'd love to get some plants for this.


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## DelawareJim

I PM'd Art to ask if he would graciously create a NACS forum.

Hopefully we will lauch soon.

Cheers.
Jim


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## SCMurphy

I'm getting one set up with the AGA Jim.


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## DelawareJim

Oh man! I already PM'd Art to set it up on here since you stated we might have some trouble with AGA.

Jim


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## SCMurphy

Not trouble, AGA can host the forum and we can use the one here like GWAPA uses it, for anouncements and dates and such. The AGA is very excited about having a sister organization start up with them. They are just exhausted after the convention or they would have sprung into action Monday.


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## Gomer

Ben Belton said:


> I'm interested. I'm stretched kinda thin, but I would be interested.
> 
> Ben


Ditto


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## HeyPK

Has Art replied to your request to set up a NACS forum?


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## dennis

I saw an announcment from earlier today welcoming the new forum. I think...


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## SCMurphy

Yes Art put up a subforum in the Clubs section. The AGA is excited about having us as a sister group and has put up a subforum as well.


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## SCMurphy

NACS Sign-ups have started at the AGA forum.


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## Kai Witte

And here the links:

Aquatic Gardeners Association :: View Forum - North American Cryptocoryne Society

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/north-american-cryptocoryne-society-nacs/


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## SCMurphy

:horn:Come on Jim. I know you want to join.:bump:


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## SCMurphy

SCMurphy said:


> Call me a pessimist but I think you'd have a better chance of making it alone than as a subsection the AGA.


By the way, yes, I *am* eating these words.


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## DelawareJim

Well I'm just happy it's gotten off the ground.

Cheers.
Jim


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## SCMurphy

DelawareJim said:


> Well I'm just happy it's gotten off the ground.
> 
> Cheers.
> Jim


I don't know about off the ground yet. You tucked a fulcrum under my lever, now we need a bunch of people to push and maybe it'll start rolling.


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## SCMurphy

:boink: Come on Tony. I know you want to join too. :bump2:


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## Gomer

oh, I am going to!

I just wish I had more to contribute to the diversity
I mean..I grow common, readily available stuff and have never had any "collector" crypt.


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## Kai Witte

> I just wish I had more to contribute to the diversity
> I mean..I grow common, readily available stuff and have never had any "collector" crypt.


No problem, Tony! That's one of the main points of such a community: To get the crypts to dedicated growers who otherwise would have problems to obtain them. Make sure to do your homework before receiving plants and distribute surplus plants to other folks later on...


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## EDGE

Kai is definately the guy to go for information on crypts. He can get you started on the right track.

I would also be interested in joining this society.

On a side note, ada soil is really good for growing submersed acid loving crypt. The pallidernvia I got from Kai is establishing quite well in my 75G submersed planted tank.


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## jazzlvr123

I just joined thanks for your help Kai, this guys is a true asset to crypt growers


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## Khamul1of9

I would love to join this group. I am a novice grower and hope to learn more from you guys.


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## orlando

How does one join?


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## Kai Witte

Here's the official sign-up thread:
http://forum.aquatic-gardeners.org/viewtopic.php?t=677

There used to be 2 "official" fora but the one on APC's clubs page seems to have been pulled?
http://forum.aquatic-gardeners.org/viewforum.php?f=30
(Most of the discussions on growing, habitats, IDs, etc. have been over here at this international forum though.)


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## Khamul1of9

I signed up but never got the confirmation email.


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## Kai Witte

If your post shows up, you're a "member"... 
(I don't see anyone from NYC - NJ?)

This is not a society with officers, bylaws, fees, etc. - the ECS is more of an anarchic gang of enthusiasts (may be study group would have been a better label).

You can find a thread on founding the NACS in this forum which will give you a bit more info on scope and intentions. (I'll post a link later...)


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## DelawareJim

Yes, it's over at the Aquatic Gardeners Association. Here's the link.

http://forum.aquatic-gardeners.org/viewforum.php?f=30&sid=64d059ef751bb5ea7fbfe1be0efef4b4

The forum that was here on APC went missing, which is a shame in a way because even though it probably would have caused duplication problems, it would have been nice to have everything on one site.

Cheers.
Jim


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