# Wanna start co2! help on systems please



## JESTERX626 (Sep 18, 2006)

I'm a beginner to plants and co2 but not to fish, and first off, i'm really not handy with building or constructing stuff so i'd most preferrably wanna stay 100ft away from DIY co2 systems and would rather like to purchase one for my 29 gal. 

Any suggestions on what type of systems are good for a 29 gal tank yet good for a beginner? I saw a fully-auto co2 system on Drfostersmith website but its pretty steep in price, but I like the idea of how it eliminates the danger of ph crash. So is there something like that i can buy thats cheaper, user-friendly, and lasts a long time? Suggestions? thanks!


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## chiahead (Dec 18, 2004)

I personally use a JBJ regulator with a Milwaukee ph controller. Alot do not use the controller but I like to look at the ph often so it works for me. You can always just skip the controller, and just slowly increase the bubbles to the point of stressing the fish a touch them back off a bit.


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## JESTERX626 (Sep 18, 2006)

hmm i think the message of my question is wrong, sorry. Lemme rephrase. I'm looking for a whole co2 system to purchase for my 29 gal tank. Any suggestions?


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Hey Jester,

I think you have found one of the only "whole CO2 sytstems" that are out there. I would never pay this much for a system though and it look like it would be "cumbersome" to set up.

To echo Chiahead's response, all you really need is a regulator (Milwaukee or JBJ both come with a bubble counter), CO2 tank, and some sort of diffusor/reactor if you have a canister filter on your tank.

Assuming you have a cannister filter on the tank already you would be better off buying an all in one regulator (either Milwaukee or JBJ) from any online vendor (Be warned that prices can vary greatly so do your homework! 

Then look for a local source for your CO2 tank (CO2 tanks are heavy and will drive up shipping costs). CO2 tanks cannot be shipped with CO2 in them so you wold need to fill it. Finding a local source for the tank will save you some troubles in that aspect. 

The cost for the CO2 tank and regulator should be about $160 (minus shipping for the regulator) if you do your homework.

I recently got rid of my Aqua Medic Reactor 1000 units (the one in the Dr's system with the bio balls in it) in favor of a Sweetwater Fine Pore Diffusor. These "Air Stones" run about $2 each and I have found I actually need to decrease the amount of CO2 I put into my tanks when using the Sweetwater diffusor. 

Again, assuming you already have a cannister filter, you should be able to purchase a "complete system" for under $200, just not from one source. However, I do know that sometimes the time saving involved is worth spending the extra cash


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## erik Loza (Feb 6, 2006)

I was in the same dilemna when I first started shopping for a pressurized gas system. As others have said, the "complete CO2 systems" that I was find when I first got into this seemed either over-priced, or didn't have what I was looking for. If you really don't want to think at all (though you might as well start doing it now, because you WILL have to when you plumb the whole unit together and tune it, once it arrives), then I suppose one of these package deals is OK. 

But, since you will need to assemble and dial it in, anyway, which means working with individual components, why not get a head start and save yourself some money, to boot? 

All you need is a new 5 lb. aluminum CO2 bottle: $65 on Ebay.
-a high/low pressure regulator: <$75 from anywhere you like. 
-a bubble counter: You can buy the Milwaukee that has one built into it, or make your own with a plastic vial and some rigid air line for about $5.
-a solenoid: About $30-$40, anywhere you like. 
-If you're really on a budget, a simple $10 household timer will run the solenoid for you. If you want to splurge, then $120 for a Milwaukee electronic pH controller. 
-A reactor or diffuser of some sort. You can buy one of those little ladders, etc. for about $10 or make your own internal reactor for about $25. 
-a fill-up at your local Airgas, about $10

So, by my math, you're looking at minimum starting investment of about $210, or so. 

CO2 systems can be confusing at first, but it's kind of like swimming: You can't do it without getting wet, so you might as well jump in now and get over it. However, once you assemble and get your new system running, you will look back and ask yourself, "Why did I think this would be so tough?". Because, it isn't. And, you won't believe how well your plants grow! Best of luck with your project.


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## Mud Pie Mama (Jul 30, 2006)

I answered this similar question just a few days ago; myself and I believe two others related their positive experiences with the Aquariumplants.com unit.

READ HERE:http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/equipment/30788-getting-into-pressurized-co2.html

Understanding the hardware, etc., etc, seemed very intimidating at first, but if I was able to get a handle on it (I'm a GIRL!) ...most anyone can. 

Good luck and Have Fun!


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## JESTERX626 (Sep 18, 2006)

So can I just buy the Aquariumplants.com regulator and attach a bottle of co2? Or do I still have to go shopping for more parts?


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## Marilyn1998 (Sep 13, 2006)

You will need a way to diffuse the CO2 into the water. Do a search here on reactors and diffusers and read up on which one you like. They both do the same thing.

You can also call aquariumplants.com. They are very helpful. Tell them
Marilyn Lesniak sent you.


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## JESTERX626 (Sep 18, 2006)

Is there advantages for a diffuser or a reactor? Which one preferred and why?


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## chiahead (Dec 18, 2004)

reactors are usually outside the tank. Ran inline in the filter tubing while the diffusor is inside the tank. Benefits and drawbacks to both. I prefer the glass diffusers myself.


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## JESTERX626 (Sep 18, 2006)

chiahead said:


> reactors are usually outside the tank. Ran inline in the filter tubing while the diffusor is inside the tank. Benefits and drawbacks to both. I prefer the glass diffusers myself.


Can you be more specific on the benefits and drawbacks of both?

Adding on another question. So is that all I need? Regulator, bottle of co2, and choice of diffuser/reactor? More details on what else I need please?


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## Mud Pie Mama (Jul 30, 2006)

A timer will help. You can use the same one for your lighting and the solenoid valve on your CO2 system.

I bubble my CO2 using a limewood diffuser right underneath the intake on my Rena XP canister filter. Some makes of canister filters handle this better than others I've heard. I don't use a reactor.


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## tjc (Jan 17, 2006)

There is a whole system by Red Sea called the Pro System Deluxe. There's a kit for regular CO2 tanks and another kit for paintball CO2 cylinders. All you need to do is buy a tank.

At Custom Aquatic you can buy the Red Sea kit and a cylinder at a very reasonable price.

Try this link:

CO2 systems Product List Page

There are other places that sell this new product. If a place of business you like doesn't have it, I bet they will. My lfs will have them soon.


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## JESTERX626 (Sep 18, 2006)

tjc said:


> There is a whole system by Red Sea called the Pro System Deluxe. There's a kit for regular CO2 tanks and another kit for paintball CO2 cylinders. All you need to do is buy a tank.
> 
> At Custom Aquatic you can buy the Red Sea kit and a cylinder at a very reasonable price.
> 
> ...


That product looks pretty nice. Does anyone else have it? Review opinions?
Sounds nice, all I have to do it buy tha co2 bottle =D. Is this better than the co2 system from Aquariumplants.com? I dont know co2 products but is any one better than the other?


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## JESTERX626 (Sep 18, 2006)

Damn, searching for a co2 system aint easy! Ok, Out of these which one is the best or most user-preferred? Btw my spending limit is somewhere around $350-400 so here are the options.

"Aquariumplants .com Co2 Regulator"
AQUARIUMPLANTS.COM's Co2 Regulator)

"Aquariumplants .com Complete Ultimate Co2 System"
COMPLETE ULTIMATE Co2 SYSTEM (best of the best)($500+ VALUE ! )

"Red Sea Co2 Pro System Deluxe"
http://www.customaquatic.com/images/feature/CO-RS51073.jpg

These are what I got so far, Is there anything else better or which out of these would you choose?


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

I build all my own regulator. For your budget I could build two complete systems with cylinders.

What you need is: cylinder, regulator, needle valve, check valve, tubing, diffusion method. That's the minimum needed for a manual pressurized system. If you want to control the CO2 flow with a timer or pH monitor then you also need a solenoid and of course a timer or pH monitor.


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## JESTERX626 (Sep 18, 2006)

Problem is i'm really lazy and really unhandy setting all this up, tis why i rather buy a whole setup to save me time and effort. So based on my needs, what can I buy that's what i'm looking for? Oh! also I'd like one to have a ph controller i think those are pretty nifty to have =D.


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

JESTERX626 said:


> Damn, searching for a co2 system aint easy! Ok, Out of these which one is the best or most user-preferred? Btw my spending limit is somewhere around $350-400 so here are the options.


In my opinion none of these sytems are as good as setting up a system yourself. You can do it for half of the money. If the money is not something you are interested in saving, send me $400 and I will set you up a system and keep the remaining $150-$200 and spend it on plants and what not for my tanks 



JESTERX626 said:


> "Aquariumplants .com Co2 Regulator"
> AQUARIUMPLANTS.COM's Co2 Regulator)


This is just a regulator. You will still need a CO2 tank, reactor or diffusor, and a pH controller since you say you want one. I still feel a Milwaukee or JBJ regulator would be a better bet.



JESTERX626 said:


> "Aquariumplants .com Complete Ultimate Co2 System"
> COMPLETE ULTIMATE Co2 SYSTEM (best of the best)($500+ VALUE ! )


This is a complete sytem minus the CO2 tank. I think it is a bit pricey and folks on here have complained about the maintenance on the reactor. The reactor may not be big enough for your tank but I don't remember what size tank you have.



JESTERX626 said:


> "Red Sea Co2 Pro System Deluxe"
> http://www.customaquatic.com/images/feature/CO-RS51073.jpg


The pic is too small but not one that I hear many people are using.



JESTERX626 said:


> These are what I got so far, Is there anything else better or which out of these would you choose?


Again, setting up your own system will save you a bunch of money and will probably have better components also. If you're not worried about saving money and getting better components, get either the system from Foster's and Smith you linked to earlier in this thread or the Complete Ultimate System from AquariumPlants.com You are still going to have to get a CO2 tank or at least have it filled locally to go with either system.

If it were me I would get a Milwaukee or JBJ regulator (includes the regulator, solenoid, needle valve, and bubble counter for ~$90) a timer for turning the regulator on and off (~$10 at WalMart), 10' of CO2 tubing, not silicone (~$10), skip the pH controller (controllers require maintenance and calibration solutions which add to their operational cost) as you can always add it later if you really think you need it, a Sweetwater Fine Pore Diffuser ($2) and a CO2 tank form a local source (~80). It doesn't get any easier than that. Shipping may run you a few extra dollars since you may have to get a few things from different places but as you can see, you will be saving quite a bit by not buying a so called "complete" system from one source.


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## chiahead (Dec 18, 2004)

Excellent recomendations MatPat. I concur.


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## JESTERX626 (Sep 18, 2006)

MatPat said:


> In my opinion none of these sytems are as good as setting up a system yourself. You can do it for half of the money. If the money is not something you are interested in saving, send me $400 and I will set you up a system and keep the remaining $150-$200 and spend it on plants and what not for my tanks
> 
> This is just a regulator. You will still need a CO2 tank, reactor or diffusor, and a pH controller since you say you want one. I still feel a Milwaukee or JBJ regulator would be a better bet.
> 
> ...


Hm, is setting up a regulator and its parts easy? And how much would a bottle of co2 depending on size cost? How about refills?


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Setting up either the JBJ or Milwaukee regulator is very easy. You screw the regulator onto a CO2 cylinder and you screw the bubble counter onto the regulator. Using either a JBJ or a Milwaukee is probably easier than any of the "complete systems" you provided links for 

A 5lb CO2 cylinder runs about ~$80 filled. This may vary slightly depending on what area of the country you live in. Refills run $10-15, again dependent on the are you live. 

Hooking up the CO2 tubing is easy also. Just like putting an airline on an air pump


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## JESTERX626 (Sep 18, 2006)

Hmm I think your idea is good, i'll follow it. So where should I purchase the milwaukee regulator and co2 tubing? What type of timer do I buy from wal-mart? In what dept of the store? And I think a reactor is better than a diffuser? Correct me if I'm wrong, I just want whichever is better.


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

Timers can be found in the electrical section of Walmart, probably near the Lighting department. The milwaukee regulator can be found from ebay, aquatic-store.com, aquariumplants.com, and the other sponsors. Ebay's price from the aquatic-store and aquacave.com on ebay seems to be the best price. Around $80-84 shipped.

I believe the CO2 tubing can be purchase from both those ebay sellers. 

The reactor and diffuser debate will always rage on, but I think a diffuser is easier to setup in the beginning. Look for the glass diffusers from aquabotanic.com, or aqmagic.com.

-John N.


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## JESTERX626 (Sep 18, 2006)

I'm looking at a Rhinox 2000 eBay: Rhinox 2000 - Japanese Co2 diffuser for planted tank (item 250015099082 end time Oct-02-06 23:33:15 PDT)

Is this good for my 29 gal? Or is another brand better?


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Jester, check your Private messages.

Setting up a regulator is not that hard. Getting all the necessary parts can be though. If you want to run a couple of systems from one regulator then you need to source out needle valves, manifold, adapters, decent check valves, solenoids, fittings, CO2 tubing, and of course the regulator body.

Judging from how many regulators I build in a month there are a lot of people out there that are not happy with the JBJ or Milwaukee. In fact about half the regulators I build are replacements for one of the above two brands.

The cost of CO2 really depends on where you live. Here in Portland CO2 is expensive. $17 to fill a 5 lb and $31 to fill a 20 lb. A reconditioned 5 lb cylinder filled runs $55.

Setting up a Milwaukee regulator is not that easy. According to customer service at Milwaukee 80% of the low pressure gauges fail in the first year. Mostly due to people not following directions. The very fact that this gauges can fail because you applied the pressure incorrectly shows that the regulators are not well built. I have put well over 150 regulators on cylinders. Not once did I give a care in the world about where the adjustment knob was. Not once did I take any care. All I do is slap them on the cylinder, tighten the fitting, and open the cylinder valve. Not one gauge failure. Not one. Also one of these, JBJ or Milwaukee, recommends the use of Teflon tape on the cylinder threads. That is not only wrong but can damage the regulator. The threads on a CGA 320 valve (the CO2 fitting used in North America) are not part of the seal. The seal is a flat face seal that relies on a compression washer. Adding Teflon tape to the threads does nothing.


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## JESTERX626 (Sep 18, 2006)

Rex Grigg said:


> Jester, check your Private messages.
> 
> Setting up a regulator is not that hard. Getting all the necessary parts can be though. If you want to run a couple of systems from one regulator then you need to source out needle valves, manifold, adapters, decent check valves, solenoids, fittings, CO2 tubing, and of course the regulator body.
> 
> ...


Oh i see, so what regulator do you recommend and also a cheap site to buy one from?


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## John N. (Dec 11, 2005)

JESTERX626 said:


> I'm looking at a Rhinox 2000 eBay: Rhinox 2000 - Japanese Co2 diffuser for planted tank (item 250015099082 end time Oct-02-06 23:33:15 PDT)
> 
> Is this good for my 29 gal? Or is another brand better?


 I believe this diffuser is as good as any of the other diffusers out there. You're looking for the largest ceramic disk which is key to providing lots of misting and bubble output. Regular cleanings via soaking in bleach for 5 minutes helps keep the bubbles smaller. Here's a thread describing peoples experiences with it. 
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/equipment/29647-ada-beetle-diffuser-knockoff.html

Again, to find the cheapest Milwaukee or JBJ regulators see ebay. You can also get the Azoo regulator from Pet Supplies & Pet Products: The Pet Supply and Product Choice - Drs Foster & Smith. I like the Azoo better then my Milwaukee for the ease of setting it up.

Good luck! 

-John N.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Jester, as I said check your private messages here.


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