# why SO much algae?



## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

Well heres a little backround on my tank...

-55 gallon 4ft long
-filtration is 2 eheim 2213's. These things were loaded with bio media then a little filter floss at the top. Just a few hours ago i setup the filters so one is Bio-Media only and the other is filter floss only. I keep a ripple at water line from the output, no surface agitation.
-2 coralife trichromatic 6500k 48" bulbs. so 80 watts over 55g = 1.45wpg
-fertilizers consist of 5ml flourish excel daily. 5ml flourish weekly. 
-PH around 8. Nitrates are around 5-10 last time i tested them.
-10 african cichlids about 2-2.5" a peice. I feed twice daily.
-40-50% water change weekly. prime is the only additive used.

hopefully i included everything needed. 
Now the question is, why SO much algae? I get brown algae covering the rocks completely, along with red brush algae. I get green hair algae all over the glass, along with spot algae. Then green algae in the substrate. Along with that the plants, especially the anubias nana get covered in brown algae, and some kind of brown spot algae that was impossible to remove. I had to snip all the leaves off them except for some new ones. The plants grow well infact the vals are growing like mad across the tank. 
So does anyone have an idea what is going on here, and what i can do? I have spoken with plenty of people that have low light non co2 tanks, and dont have algae problems, not to mention no where near algae like mine.

Here is a pic of the tank to get an idea of how many plants are in there. There is also hornwort floating at the top of the tank also growing well.


----------



## John P. (Nov 24, 2004)

3 Glaring Problems:
-Excel isn't a fertilizer, it's a carbon source. Your plants won't thrive without Nitrate, Potassium, Phosphate, & Macros ... but algae will.
-If you're not going to get pressurized CO2, you're going to have to add a lot of Excel to combat algae in that tank.
-You need a lot more plants in there, period.


----------



## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

i appreciate the reply. So flourish (not excel) isnt a sutable fertilizer for this setup? i was told it would be sufficient enough since my plants dont consume much being a low light setup without co2 injection. I forgot to mention i do a weekly recommended dose of leaf zone. 
All i thought of that could have been causing so much algae in my tank was.
1. having too much bio media. Stupid thought maybe, but i noticed all the planted tank guys here only use filter floss. I thought perhaps there was too much nitrates being built up in the filters, and possibly not enough mechanical filtration.
2. i thought perhaps having surface agitation and having more oxygen in the tank was contributing to algae..so i tried stopping that but i doubt itll do anything.
3. Algae was out of control from the start, and now by adding plants AFTER the fish and dosing fertilizers its only stablizing and unable to be defeated especially by not having co2.

johnP - not to go against what you say at all, but like i said plenty of people keep low light tanks (hell even way higher light tanks) without co2 or even fertilizers and dont have near the amount of algae problems as i do. Infact barely any algae for that matter. what really drives me nuts is the brown algae, its all nasty BROWN, if it was green i wouldnt mind. The tank has been up since december, and its still growing like mad....what gives.


----------



## John P. (Nov 24, 2004)

My point re: the CO2 is that it makes algae control much easier.

You'll still want to add the big 3 macros (in additon to Flourish), just not in the dosages that high light tanks require.

I know it's frustrating ... I still think more plants would help. I can send you some Hygrophila corymbosa "angustifolia" for shipping cost only if you'd like a fast grower:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/details.php?id=139

Still relatively rare in the hobby, too.


----------



## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

John P. said:


> My point re: the CO2 is that it makes algae control much easier.
> 
> You'll still want to add the big 3 macros (in additon to Flourish), just not in the dosages that high light tanks require.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the offer i will definetly grab some of that from you in a week or 2, im just saving every penny right now for some things i have to pay for.

So you recommend dosing extra nitrate, pottassium, and phosphate? Im assuming those are the big 3 you are refering to.

One question about nitrate though...isnt this the leading contributor to algae? And for my setup, would fish waste alone be enough for nitrate suppliment?


----------



## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

Stop doing large water changes.
Actually stop doing them altogether.

You can add the excel still. 
I'd also suggest adding SeaChem equilbrium once a week, about 1/8" teaspoon. Top off the tank for evaporation.

Some of this sounds strange, but every time you do the water change you add lots of CO2 in the tank, the plants do not have enough time to adapt to low or high CO2 levels, you confuse the plant.

If you want to do the water changes, then add more Excel.

Excel is fine for the tank.

But everyone is correct, you need MORE plants.

I have a client with a 240 gal planted Tangy tank, I add nothing other than SeaChem Eq and water and fish food.

The fish food should be enough along with the EQ to suppl y the needs of the plants for NO3 and PO4.

You can still dose if you wish, but 2x a day is enough nutrients, you need more plants.

Clean off all the algae now, add more weeds, add more excel, add the SeaChem EQ, back off the water changes.
See algae die and go away.

Add some floating plants, like water sprite.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

plantbrain said:


> Stop doing large water changes.
> Actually stop doing them altogether.
> 
> You can add the excel still.
> ...


I never knew that about the water changes causing higher Co2 levels. I learn something new everyday 

Tom..you said if i want to do the water changes, to add more excel. Are you implying if i want to do the water change, just to add more excel than i would reguarly?

I feel i need to do some water changes because the fish make alot of mess, and waste. How long would you recommend i go between water changes?

One last question, a regular basis, what would you recommend as my schedule for dosing the excel, and EQ. and how much per dose. I did water changes today, so ill mark that as my last one for a while as the tank is real clean. 
btw would you recommend water sprite over hornwort for a floating plant? heck ill just throw both in there. :razz: I appreciate all the help yet again tom thanks! too bad i missed the swap over the weekend.


----------



## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

Bavarian3 said:


> I never knew that about the water changes causing higher Co2 levels. I learn something new everyday
> 
> Tom..you said if i want to do the water changes, to add more excel. Are you implying if i want to do the water change, just to add more excel than i would reguarly?
> 
> ...


Well, adding a slug load of CO2 only once a week is bad, vs keeping the CO2 low all week long.
Likewise, allowing the CO2 to drop often or vary confuses the plant. Algae are able to respond faster for a number of reasons.

Yes, I'd add more Excel if you wish to do (more) water changes. You an still do them with the above routine, just perhaps once every 2-6 months is all.

I missed last swap meet, not much incentive to go just to give away weeds

If you want to do the Excel + weekly water changes, I'd just get CO2 gas(tyhe lower pH does not bother fish if it's from CO2 only, Rift fish like the salts, those will remain in the water).
If you want to use Excel, dose about 1.5x the recommendations.
Do enough water changes to remove the dirt, algae and muck only.
Consider some algae eaters.
Tropheus moorii ain't bad

You will need to do some more work and add more rooted plants.
I would suggest water sprite over coontail.
The water sprite has better access to atmospheric CO2 and looks better and is easier to sell and you can root it later.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

plantbrain said:


> Well, adding a slug load of CO2 only once a week is bad, vs keeping the CO2 low all week long.
> Likewise, allowing the CO2 to drop often or vary confuses the plant. Algae are able to respond faster for a number of reasons.
> 
> Yes, I'd add more Excel if you wish to do (more) water changes. You an still do them with the above routine, just perhaps once every 2-6 months is all.
> ...


What is it about water changes that causes the Co2? Is it the tap water itself, or is it just the process of draining and adding water?

So as of now my schedule will be....
Flourish Excel - 1.5x recommended dose once a day in the morning.
Seachem EQ - 1/8th a teaspoon once a week.
Then feeding once in morning and once at night.

Sound good?

I will definetly swap out the coontail for watersprite. should i worry about it being under the light fixture, or just let it sit wherever? and should i worry about it blocking light from plants below it? 
Thanks again tom!


----------



## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

bump for any other opinions or comments


----------



## pescadero (Mar 29, 2005)

> What is it about water changes that causes the Co2? Is it the tap water itself, or is it just the process of draining and adding water?


Because it is pressurized tap water can hold a lot of dissolved gases. For example my water has a pH of 7.0 out of the tap. If I aerate it overnight before adding it to the tank the pH goes up to 8.0! (KH is about 6)


----------



## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

pescadero said:


> Because it is pressurized tap water can hold a lot of dissolved gases. For example my water has a pH of 7.0 out of the tap. If I aerate it overnight before adding it to the tank the pH goes up to 8.0! (KH is about 6)


ahh ok. so it would be smart to let the water sit before adding it to my tank?


----------



## pescadero (Mar 29, 2005)

Bavarian3 said:


> ahh ok. so it would be smart to let the water sit before adding it to my tank?


If your goal is to avoid fluctuating CO2 levels (I have no experience with that issue) I would say yes.

Another possible reason to avoid water changes might be that your tap water contains something (silicates perhaps?) that the algae like and would eventually use up if it was not resupplied through water changes.

But I can't imagine keeping African cichlids without regular water changes and I am surprised they haven't dug up all your plants already.

How long has this tank been set up?


----------



## Bavarian3 (Oct 21, 2004)

pescadero said:


> But I can't imagine keeping African cichlids without regular water changes and I am surprised they haven't dug up all your plants already.
> 
> How long has this tank been set up?


Its been going fine for about 10 days now. I need a big cleaning the other day, wiped off algea and scrubbed it off the rocks. There was so much i couldnt see the back of the tank after i was done. 
The only plant i have a problem, or i should say had a problem with was micro sword. I planted alot around their territories, so those ended up derooting as they would dig around em, but i replanted them and they are all now rooted and growing. They also made a mess of java moss but i dont keep that anymore. Everything else though they dont touch, i even have a bush of stargrass growing nicely to the right of the sword now. The only time they ever pay attention to the plants is if they are looking for food or if there is algae for them to graze on.
tank has been setup since january or so.


----------

