# Ph & Kh



## searley (Jun 19, 2006)

I have just started adding CO2 via a DIY yeast fermentaion system

I checked the KH & PH prior to starting up the CO2

The KH was about 10 and the PH about 7.8

I assume both these figures will start to fall within a few days of adding CO2

I Read that KH should be maintained somwhere between 4 & 6 is this correct??

what is the suggested way of maintaining this? i read some people add bicorbonate of soda to increase the KH others talk about crushed coral

i am going to purchase a continuous use digital PH meter, but how often should i be checking the KH level? 

sorry if these questions seem over dumb, but it is important for me to get it right from the start, as i dont want to lose any of my fish stocks due to silly mistakes


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

The addition of CO2 does not lower KH to any significant degree, only the pH. So for any given KH, adding more or less CO2 will change the pH levels of the water. In theory, if you are accurately testing your KH and pH levels, you should know your CO2 concentration.

A KH of 10 is fine for growing most all plants. People add carbonates when they have very low KH or are using RO water.

In some locations, water utilities change their source water during the year. If this happens, your tap water KH can vary by quite a bit. So if you're adding enough CO2 to keep the pH at a certain level, when the KH changes (from water changes) your CO2 concentrations are no longer the same. So it's a good idea to measure the KH from time to time.

And no question is dumb!  That's how all of us learn; asking questions, making small and big mistakes, asking more questions, experimenting, asking more questions...

And welcome to APC!


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

I would check out Seachem's pH Alert and Seachem's Ammonia Alert. Let me know if you find these helpful. 

Laith, I know adding Baking Soda raises my pH. 
BUT, is sodium safe for my plants? And does the carbonate count as usable bio-available carbon for my plants? (=Seachem Excel maybe?)

Does this only effect the KH or only the GH? 
Or Both? 
:yo:


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## Cichlid Freq (Jun 18, 2006)

The sodium bi-carbonate in baking soda is safe for use in aquariums, the amount you need to make changes is fairly small so if you nee to use it add it slowly and test, test, test.. Unfortunately the carbonate in it does not count towards carbon for your plants the same way as Excel or CO2.


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

I just tested the 27 gallon tonight and it was lower than I wanted so I threw in some baking soda. About 1/4-1/2 tsp forgot which. 

So what exactly does it do again? 
(Besides make my pH test tube turn BRIGHT BLUE when I am experimenting with it.)


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

Jimbo205 said:


> ...
> Does this only effect the KH or only the GH?
> Or Both?
> :yo:


Baking soda will only effect the KH, not the GH. It will also raise the pH.


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## Elkmor (Mar 30, 2005)

searley said:


> I assume both these figures will start to fall within a few days of adding CO2


I'd say within a few minutes.


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## searley (Jun 19, 2006)

Elkmor said:


> I'd say within a few minutes.


OK thanks

I guess i will wait for my new PH meter to arrive, and my CO2 bottle and all the extra toys i have ordered then play and see what happens

and hopefully for once in the 20 years of having tanks i will be able to have some plant life too!!


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

searley said:


> ...
> 
> and hopefully for once in the 20 years of having tanks i will be able to have some plant life too!!


I remember the first time I finally managed to get plants to grow. "What's that on the plant? OMG a new LEAF! Come quick and look at this!" my wife thought I was slightly mad: it was hilarious. Then I sat around in front of the tank counting new leaves, marvelling at the fact that plants can actually grow underwater and that you didn't need to buy new ones every few weeks. 

And then they start growing so much you actually have to trim them! 

And I won't even mention when I managed to get plants to pearl...


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## searley (Jun 19, 2006)

Laith said:


> I remember the first time I finally managed to get plants to grow. "What's that on the plant? OMG a new LEAF! Come quick and look at this!" my wife thought I was slightly mad: it was hilarious. Then I sat around in front of the tank counting new leaves, marvelling at the fact that plants can actually grow underwater and that you didn't need to buy new ones every few weeks.
> 
> And then they start growing so much you actually have to trim them!
> 
> And I won't even mention when I managed to get plants to pearl...




i have been running Co2 for about 4 days, and things are already happing to some of the plants

I bought a tank pack of plants about 8 months ago, there was a tallish but soft leaved plant, the leaves soon died just leaving the thick stems which slowly got covered with a small coating of algea.

The last couple of days i have started to see light green stem with leaves apearing at the tops of each dark algea covered sick 

so already i can see the benifit of the Co2 addition, and once i am happy i have start getting things right, both in the tank, and my head i will be able to start planning how i ultimatly would like the tank to look

i have to say, that my enthusiasm towards the hobby has increased substantially the last couple of weeks


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

My aquarium experiences date back to the 1960's, when I would buy plants, always optimistic that they would soon be beautiful in my tank, and within a month they would all be dead. After a couple of years of this I discovered the virtues of plastic plants - buy them once and they never die! I didn't try plants again until the 90's after accidentally stumbling on to http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/2637/ which was the first time I became aware that actually growing aquatic plants was possible. That got me back into this hobby.


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## searley (Jun 19, 2006)

Laith said:


> And I won't even mention when I managed to get plants to pearl...


By this i assume you mean the formation of small bubbles bvy the plants?

is this good or bad??

as for the first time today i have seen my java moss producing bubbles, which my Flying Fox or Clown Loach seen to take great pleasure in dislodging


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

It is good.

What is happening is that the plants are growing so well that they're giving off lots of Oxygen. Once the O2 levels in the water reach saturation, no more O2 can dissolve; so instead of dissolving, the O2 forms visible bubbles.

However, note that pearling is not an absolute requirement to indicate healthy plant growth. Healthy plant growth can occur without pearling, it's just that plants aren't "respiring" as much.

But i'ts always nice to see!


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## searley (Jun 19, 2006)

Laith said:


> It is good.
> 
> What is happening is that the plants are growing so well that they're giving off lots of Oxygen. Once the O2 levels in the water reach saturation, no more O2 can dissolve; so instead of dissolving, the O2 forms visible bubbles.
> 
> ...


Thank you, i started to worry a little bit

because by mid afternoon, my amazon swords had visable streams of bubbles comming from them, i started to think that i was cooking them or something as there was a wall of bubbles


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## Jimbo205 (Feb 2, 2006)

> I remember the first time I finally managed to get plants to grow. "What's that on the plant? OMG a new LEAF! Come quick and look at this!" my wife thought I was slightly mad: it was hilarious. Then I sat around in front of the tank counting new leaves, marvelling at the fact that plants can actually grow underwater and that you didn't need to buy new ones every few weeks.
> 
> And then they start growing so much you actually have to trim them!





> Originally Posted by searley
> ...
> 
> and hopefully for once in the 20 years of having tanks i will be able to have some plant life too!!


Oh yes, yes, yes!


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