# Lobelia Cardinalis



## mikebarg (Nov 9, 2005)

Here is a LOBELIA CARDINALIS that I am growing in a coffee mug on my desk at work. The mug contains only water and a small piece of a plant fertilizer spike. I have a desk lamp with a florescent bulb in it over the plant. It's been set up now for 3 weeks and is doing great. This plant has lots of side shoots and is getting new growth. I hope this setup works out well in the long term. I hope to take some cutting off of this plant in the near future and grow them submersed.


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

Nice job Mike!


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Looks quite healthy so far. Does that plant spike contain iron?


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## omega (Apr 1, 2004)

That is the weirdest Lobelia cardinalis I have ever seen.  The plant always seems so upright and thick stemmed to me. Seeing it all flimsy, breakable, and trailing like a creeping plant is really odd. The dwarf Lobelia cardinalis I have growing emersed look nothing like this at all. I can't wait to see this version of the plant growing underwater.


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## mikebarg (Nov 9, 2005)

*Miracle-Gro plant spike - iron*

The plant spike I'm using is Miracle-Gro house plant spikes. They do contain iron. Here is a link to the product packaging that shows the composition.
http://www.scotts.com/media/media/pdf/productGuide/labels/00252.pdf.
They are intended to be used in potting soil, not water.But,I had a full package of them so I decided to try it as an experiment.


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 22, 2004)

Mike,

Did you collect those from the wild or are they former aquarium plants? I like the Ludwigia surrounding the Lobelia, it's a neat effect.


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## mikebarg (Nov 9, 2005)

I collected this from the wild. It was growing partially emersed in a stream on the side of a rock. What you see is actually all one Lobelia Cardinalis plant with no other plants. When I collected it these runners where there but not as long or as many as now. They have continued to spread out. The main stem of the plant is about 4" tall. It doesn't show very well because it is sitting down in the coffe mug. I'm not sure why these side branches are growing more than the main stem. This plant does produce roots from the nodes. I think that if there was a substrate present these stems would not spread out so much but drop roots and form a new plants. I'm just a novice at this so that's only my theory. Any input from the more experienced members would be appreciated.


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## mikebarg (Nov 9, 2005)

*pic showing full plant*

Here is a pic of the full plant including the roots. Here the main stem can be easily seen. And, you can see these long side stems growing from the main plant stem.


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## DelawareJim (Nov 15, 2005)

Mike;

Since your plant is producing new roots from the nodes, it would be intresting to grow out a "runner" submerged and see how it performs.

Plants often produce mutations or "sports" which, when propogated, become new varieties in the trade. Who knows? It could either be the growing conditions, or you could have found a creeping variety. Lobelia cardinalis 'Mike Barg'.

Cheers.
Jim


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Lobelia cardinalis out of the water usually becomes purple/red. Even the stems become dark purple. I have never seem creeping side shoots either. Are you sure it is Lobelia? I had a two foot tall plant growing outside in a terrestrial garden a couple years ago. The flowers were bright red.


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## neonfish3 (Feb 12, 2004)

It does look like Lobelia, IMHO your strange growth pattern is from high ferts (nitrogen mostly) from the miracle grow and low light. I think I've seen the same pattern in terrestials when I over fertilize.


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## mikebarg (Nov 9, 2005)

I posted a pic of this plant for an ID right after I collected it. The consensus was that it was Lobelia Cardinalis. If it's not, I have no idea what it might be. Maybe I can find a local native plant guru to help verify the ID. The plant is starting to show red coloration in the veins of some of the leaves. I found a discussion of this plant on the krib and it does mention at one point that the small form of this plant can put out side shoots. Here is the link http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Lobelia.html. Wow, what I thought would be a post that would only bring one or two replies has turned into a great discussion!


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Those side shoots look like the standard pattern for a plant in 'takeover' mode. Lots of plants do this when growing conditions are good. They send runners out in all directions to capture as much territory as possible. Here is a picture of Hygrophila difformis in takeover mode. 








you can see three or four horizontal branches coming out from the base of the main plant.


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## Urkevitz (Oct 26, 2004)

I have seen wild Lobelia Cardinalis in full bloom and the leaves were still green. The stem of the flower showed red pigmentation.


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## DelawareJim (Nov 15, 2005)

Your plant is indeed L. cardinalis.

The amount of red pigmentation (Anthocyanins) is quite variable in plants depending on the amount of light, plant health, nutrition, and general overall color expression exhibited by the individual. That's one of the beauties of plants from seed where each individual is unique versus from cuttings or divisions where you have thousands of identical plants.

I have a mass planting of about a dozen L. cardinalis next to my pond and not only is each one slightly different because I grew them from seed, but the same plants also vary year to year because of the amount of light, moisture, and fertilizer they get each year.

Cheers.
Jim


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## mikebarg (Nov 9, 2005)

Lots of good info! I really like this plant and hope I can keep it healthy. I'm going to propagate some cutting in both emersed and submersed conditions. It would be great to see it bloom some day. I'll try to post some updates on the progress of the propagation. I could use some suggestions on an ideal substrate to grow it submersed. Or should I post that to the general forum.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

here is a picture of Lobelia in bloom. It is the only Lobelia I have ever seen in the Jackson, Mississippi area, and somebody dug it up for his garden right after I photographed it!


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## DaFishMan (Dec 4, 2005)

"Lobelia cardinalis out of the water usually becomes purple/red. Even the stems become dark purple. I have never seem creeping side shoots either. Are you sure it is Lobelia? I had a two foot tall plant growing outside in a terrestrial garden a couple years ago. The flowers were bright red."

True, but for that you need sunlight, sodium gro lights or metal hallide..
With a desk lamp, it'll stay green.

I have 'Cardinal Flower' which my friend grew from seed, to emmersed, then immersed... Quite the interesting plant... Once submersed, it should grow upward and no longer creep unless you've been lucky and have a slightly different strain. That would make an interesting carpet ! My 2 plants when received were 3-4 inches in height, non-rooted cuttings. Now 8-9 inch height and doing well in 1.5 wpg low tech tank...Some white 'accessory' roots also come out of the sides etc, similar to what elodia or ambulia would do.. Once it hits top I'm going take top cuttings. Judging by the vein pattern on your leaves, it's definately Lobelia Cardinalis  I'll get a pic of it now that I've cleaned the glass and tank up a bit and show you what it'll probably look like once converted to immersed. 

Nice find ! Now you have me thinking maybe I can make an interesting houseplant out of this !


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## mikebarg (Nov 9, 2005)

*Lobelia? update - no Veronica Americana*

Well I have now come to the conclusion that the specimen pictured here is not Lobelia Cardinalis but Veronica Americana. Why did I conclude this? I have another specimen of this plant I collected from an area of muddy soil about 1 mile from were I found the 1st one. I have been growing this one emersed in a small pot . It has show the same leaf shape and growth pattern as the 1st one. But, low and behold this one bloomed. And , the blooms are small(1/4") light blue blooms with 4 pedals(not Lobelia). In a state of total confusion I sent pictures to the plant experts at the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center here in Austin Texas. They identified it as Veronica Americana. Wow, so I took this info back to the net and confirmed that the Leaf shape , growth pattern, bloom and growing conditions all match Veronica Americana. 
I have included some pictures


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## Happy Camper (Jul 22, 2004)

I must agree with a previous poster and say that this plant looksmore like Ludwigia. I have grown Ludwigia emersed and the eaves are very similar to what you have. It gave me tiny yellow flowers.


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## neonfish3 (Feb 12, 2004)

It's nice when you finally get a plant properly identified, isn't it? 
Did you ever try growing it under water?


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## mikebarg (Nov 9, 2005)

I am glad I finally have an ID on this plant. I have tried, unsuccessfully so far, to grow this submersed. I have not found any references yet that say it can be grown submersed. I agree with the comment that it looks a lot like a Ludwigia. I found one source that refers to a species (Ludwigia palustris) that is very similar to and sometimes confused with Veronica Americana. It, however does not have a blue flower.


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