# Plants/MTS/Goldfish questions



## RickRS (Dec 20, 2010)

What would you suggest for a MTS cap layer when used in a goldfish tank?

Goldfish: Not exactly the fish that everyone expects to have in a planted aquarium, but what I wound up with. The wife wanted goldfish, I wanted plants, so we do both. The current happy setup is a 40 gallon long, straight gravel, planted with val, Amazon swordplants (still on the small size), anubia, wendti crypt, hornwort, cabomba, and java fern, under a 4 foot twin bulb T12 shoplight. There's 6 small fantails (2"), 1 medium veiltail (5"), and a big black moor (7-8"). Low tech, no CO2, just using Florish for fertilizer. While people talk if goldfish are just below South American cichlids in tearing up plants, I'm having no problem in the 4 months so far.

Now the plan is to move the contents of the 40 into larger quarters, a new 75 gallon picked up in a dollar-a-gallon sale. I intend to up my game and try soil substrate for the first time with the MTS approach in this tank. I might have it wrong, but I'm understanding sand is preferred as the cap for soil substrates, I assumed as a finer layer than gravel to keep the soil from mixing into the water column. As goldfish root around in the gravel, the possibility is they might dig deeper into sand, exposing the MTS. I have 4-5mm gravel. Thinking of doing a triple layer: MTS, pool sand, and thin top layer of gravel. And I might do that as the situation demands; just MTS and pool sand to start, then gravel if the goldfish are stirring things up too much.

What do ya'll think?


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Having kept goldfish, I would skip the sand and just use a heavy, coarse gravel. The goldfish will have a harder time moving the gravel, and any soil particles that are disturbed can settle below the surface of the gravel instead of collecting on top. The 4-5 mm gravel should be big enough.

A few other suggestions: Plant the tank first, weigh the plants down with pebbles, and let them root in and start growing before you add the goldfish. Put as much bio-flitration on the tank as you can, and enough flow to keep the plants moving in the current.

Good luck, and show us pictures!


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## Lngtall1 (Feb 17, 2011)

It depends on the size of the goldfish. I just put my goldies in a planted tank and they are pulling the dirt up with 9-12 mm rock and spitting it into the water column. I am going to over cap with sand to hopefully prevent this from continuing.

+1 on Micheal's suggestion of getting the plants rooted good before adding the little devils. I did not and I am learning from that mistake. I might even tie the roots to mesh under the dirt if I had it to do over.

I do have a large goldfish though, he's a good eight or 9 inches lip to fin and about 3 and a half inches wide.


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## vicky (Feb 18, 2010)

I'm thinking largish flat rocks placed over the gravel or sand. Big enough that the fish can't move them, but not big enough to make the substrate go anaerobic. Either that, or just use gravel and potted plants, with the flat rocks covering the substrate in the pots.


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## klink67 (Feb 11, 2011)

do a sand substrate with some natural looking gravel around each of your plants. That way the goldfish cant disturb them.


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## RickRS (Dec 20, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestions.

It will be slow going, as I have much to do to get the 75 gal set up. I'm building a stand for the tank(s) now. And originally, I was going to use a 20 gallon long for start with MTS (not for goldfish). Now, with change to a 75 gallon tank, I have started a minerializing a second bag of topsoil.

In the meantime, posting a "before" photo of the current 40 gallon tank just to get experience with aquarium photography and using APC's photo capabilities.

My tank:








Less than perfect.  The tank has a bunch of crypt Wendtii on the left that were purchased for 20 Long and just dump into the 40 for holding until I can transfer. Look closely and you'll see rubber bands


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## Tuiflies (Jan 21, 2010)

If you put your MTS down, then a very thin layer of gravel, then a mesh screen with holes a bit smaller than the gravel (like the stuff you use to keep leaves out of your gutter), that will keep the goldies from digging right down to your MTS. Then you can use more gravel on top. The only problem is that removing plants after they've had a chance to root through the mesh is almost impossible without cutting them free.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Decades ago I had a 40 long with goldfish in it, and it NEVER looked nearly as good as yours does!

One of our members at DFW APC keeps goldfish, and is trying a fluidized bed biofilter with K-1 media in it. His screen name is Digital Gods, you might look for his posts.


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## RickRS (Dec 20, 2010)

Update to the Goldfish/MTS question:

Got the 75 gallon tank set up a week and a half ago and it's been working out fine. Cap the MTS with the gravel, to about 1 1/2 to 2 inches, no mesh or other stuff. Surprise to have zero problems with cloudy water from the MTS when I filled the tank. The fish went back into their new tank a day later.

Only issue to develop, they have developed a taste for the hornwort and are starting to feed on it quite a bit. What with hornwort's growth rate, they can chow down on it as much as they want. In hindsight, my wife's desire to interact with her goldfish by feeding a lot may be saving the plants. They started on the hornwort when I was transferring stuff around and have them in a 20 gallon long with java ferns and hornwort dumped in it for 2-3 days. Kept the wife from feeding as much at that time to keep the bio-load down while everybody was in an over crowded tank and the fish turned to what was available. Or at least that what I think happen. She can go back to her usual overfeeding now and I'm not going to complain about it anymore.

When rooting in the gravel, they don't dig very deep, maybe 1/4 inch at most, so nothing been disturbing the MTS.

Now to see what MTS will do for me long term.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

A fast growing plant (some would say pest) that goldfish love to eat is duckweed. It usually easy to find someone who will give you as much duckweed as you want. It is ice cream for goldfish, and might keep them from eating the hornwort.


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