# Plant and fish questions.



## Egbert (Aug 27, 2009)

Hello. I just started an aquarium about a week ago. Here's what's in the tank:
It's a 10 gallon Wal-Mart tank and filter. 
My substrate is Eco-complete.
The hood has two 25 Watt 120 Volt bulbs.
I got the rocks from a bolder outside. (I broke them off)
The plants are Hygrophila corymbosa, Hygrophila difformis, and Trichomanes javanicum from a Plant ID post I did earlier today. (I guess the fern thing isn't an aquatic plant&#8230;ripped me off.)

I was wondering what type of fish to get. I also would like to get a small shrimp or something; they always seem cool in tanks. I probably only want one type of fish; preferably a type that will swim together in a group. Natural looking also, they don't need to be really colorful or dominating. I want my plants to stand out more than the fish. I don't know where to buy these fish and when to get them. At what time is my tank safe for fish? There is not really any algae growth so I don't know if I can get a shrimp.
I would like to find some type of large leaf plant, maybe a red or purple color. Like a lily or something but I have no Clue where to buy.
I also would like to get some type of plant that covers a lot of the substrate like a carpet per say. Textured and maybe some color. I know it's not a big tank but something to experiment with. I love the look of tanks that are covered with the grassy stuff.

As you can probably tell, I'm not very experienced with aquariums so any hints, tips or tricks would be great.

Here are some pictures of my tank:

















Thanks.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Are you light spiral fluorescents? You can get screw in U tube bulbs that have less restrike so more light goes into the tank.

Your fern type plant is not an aquatic. It's terrestrial and will die. Your other are fine. They are going to grow fast and you'll have to trim, but it's great for a new tank. They will help cycle your tank. Lillies grow awfully big for a ten gallon. I have a 125g and only have 2 in that tank. I would not keep them in a 10g. You could get some Anubias nana. It has a tear shaped bigger leaf.

Read the stickies at the beginnings of the different forums. They will help you a lot in your learning curve.


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## Xan (Jul 22, 2009)

Hi Egbert, love the look of your tank so far. My setup is almost identical (walmart, 10 gal; only differences are that my filter is on the right and the lights are 2-15w instead of 25. You have LOTS of light. and is that a window behind it? Some natural light as well. Exxxxcellent. 

As I am only a couple of months more experienced than you I hestitate to jump in, but for what it's worth here goes:

You really need to find a local fish store (lfs) for starters. You don't say where in Ohio you are but try looking through here for a nearby club. Or there's always the phone book. 

Go through the websites of the online plant dealers--I like LiveAquaria.com; for plant-only orders. they ship from northern Illinois which keeps shipping costs down for us midwesterners--and see the choices available in plants. For foreground/lawn type stuff dwarf baby tears (Hermianthus callitrichoides, commonly known as HC) are nice but a pain to plant. They come in a little pot growning out of a wool-like stuff.

Don't do what I did and just pop it out of the holder and stuff it, wool and all, into the substrate. Turns out this does not work. You have to tease the wool apart, take each little thread-like plant out (without breaking it or squishing too badly) and plant that by itself. Same for sword grass, dwarf hairgrass, etc. Although I planted them the same way, wool and alll, and they seem to be surviving and even, in the case of the hairgrass, already starting to send up some shoots a couple of inches away. You might want to schedule planting around the time you were going to do a water change anyway and pull out about 50 percent of the water. Much easier to do all this planting through 6 inches of water rather than 12. but your hands will turn pruney anyway.

Since you don't have any fish yet you are ahead of the game and can get your plants in and settled and growing before adding any creatures. You would be amazed at how such small fish, that don't actually eat the plants themselves, can uproot stuff just by nibbling on the leaves, nosing at them, trying to hide in them, etc.

as far as fish go, that's what you need the LFS for. Shipping fish through the mail is hideously expensive. You could drive 50 miles and spend less on gas than you would on shipping. Plus it's nice to support local business when you can. For fish in a 10, I don't see how you can go wrong with a dozen or so good ol' neon tetras. Love to school, eat cheap flake food, don't breed (so you're not overflowing with babies like , ahem, some of us who foolishly get a pair of mollies for instance) and their coloring actually makes the plants look better.

Just remember, with a planted tank, once something goes in it's pretty well in for all time, unless it is thoughtful enough to die and float to the top. Chasing a fish/shrimp/whatever around with a net will tear your plantings up good, and possibly even knock over your rocks. Don't ask me how I know this. 

First stop though should probably be back at Walmart. Look on the wall and see if they're still carrying dry aquatic plant bulbs--a few months ago anyway they had two varieties, one of which is just the sort of mini-lilly you're looking for. don't believe the blurb on the back of the pack, they take way longer to grow if they do at all, but it's worth a shot. And pick up a little bitty backup tank, they have a 1-gal semi-triangular (pentagonal if ya wanna be technical) that is very handy to have around. Put your plants in it when you first get them for a few days to see if any snails hitchhiked in on the shipment. I nearly got swamped with (I think) trapdoor snails that way. Plus it's always good to have a backup/quarantine/hospital spare container anyway.

So there you have it. Oh, there's tons more about fertilizers, CO2 additions, etc., but the experts here are much better for that sort of information. Best of luck and remember it's your own work of art as well as a living ecosystem. You can do whatever looks and feels right to you.


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## jamesstill84 (Mar 29, 2009)

I can get great fish through these forums. Especially on AquariaCentral.com. That's where I buy all my plants and fish. I can get a pair of Killi's for $26 at the LFS and come on here and pay $8 for the pair with $9 shipping. Most LFS don't have healthy fish. They get them in, throw them in the tank, and then the whole thing is eat up with Ick. You should check out Aquabid.com.


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## jmontee (Feb 7, 2008)

> as far as fish go, that's what you need the LFS for. Shipping fish through the mail is hideously expensive. You could drive 50 miles and spend less on gas than you would on shipping. Plus it's nice to support local business when you can. For fish in a 10, I don't see how you can go wrong with a dozen or so good ol' neon tetras. Love to school, eat cheap flake food, don't breed (so you're not overflowing with babies like , ahem, some of us who foolishly get a pair of mollies for instance) and their coloring actually makes the plants look better.


Not really sure where you are looking for your online fish but there are definitely some places that are not too expensive. I usually order fish from Invertz Factory and it's only $15.00 for shipping. There are also a few on Aquabid that are the same.

Granted places like AZ Gardens are ripoffs and the places that say they will only ship FedEx express for $50.00 are crazy. I have never had a problem with fish shipped via USPS priority as long as they are well packaged.

James,

Invertz Factory even guarantees their USPS shipments, I would definitely recommend them. For small fish I would recommend Green neon tetras or the small rasboras. Check out their stock they really have some nice fish. You can also do a pair of small dwarf chichlids too, that's what I would do in a 10 gallon. Matbe you can have like 10 green neons and a pair of Agassizi apistos or a pair of German Blue rams.

Did you get your light situation taken care of? Those halogen bulbs will simply not work anf they get too hot.


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## Egbert (Aug 27, 2009)

Thanks for all the help everyone. So I'm confused, what type of light bulb do I need? I have this kind:










Also are snails bad? Other people have them for pets. Is it just the ones that tag-a-long with plants that are unwanted? 
My plants are growing FAST! I need to trim them or something because they're now touching the surface. I think I have Algae because there is green stuff growing on the rocks.










So I noticed a different sound coming from my filter the other day and went to go look. The water was coming out of the intake! I was like: "OH, NO!" So I opened the top and pulled out the filter and this is the nastiness I sawr.










Do I need to clean that&#8230;.stuff off?
I think I might go get fish today. And more plants? I think I'm addicted or something because whenever I go to malls or shopping centers I always have to stop at pet stores to see their plant selection.


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## jmontee (Feb 7, 2008)

egbert,

The recommended lights are 6700 to 10000k color temp, which you can't get using the bulbs that you have. The now sell the screw in compact fluorescent bulbs that have the right color temperature. You can probably find them at Home Depot or Lowes. Just make sure that they will fit in the hood that you have. Always go by the rated watts not what they are "equivalent to" on the package. For your tank I would say that 2 15 to 20w bulbs would be OK if you continue with your low light plants. Also remember that the fern that you have in there will die soon because it isn't an aquatic plant. 

Yes you need to clean that filter, actually just buy a new one at the pet shop. One thing you could try is to put some of those ceramic bio rings in front of the filter floss and those would never get changed, just rinsed with aquarium water when they are dirty. This woiuld help to keep a more consistent biological filter of good bacteria.

Before you get fish make sure that your ammonia and nitrites are gone, this way you will know that your tank is cycled. Have you read through the stickies in the beginner forum. These will really give you a head start on the basics of a planted aquarium.

Don't forget to do some research on the fish and plants you want to get. There is nothing more frustrating than finding out that the stuff you get will have a hard time in your tank.


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## armedbiggiet (May 6, 2006)

If you had never used one of those hood... there is no way he/she can use other bulbs than what it is already seen on that picture. That hood is too small. Need to do a major mod or simply give up that hood if plants are wanted.



jmontee said:


> egbert,
> 
> The recommended lights are 6700 to 10000k color temp, which you can't get using the bulbs that you have. The now sell the screw in compact fluorescent bulbs that have the right color temperature. You can probably find them at Home Depot or Lowes. Just make sure that they will fit in the hood that you have. Always go by the rated watts not what they are "equivalent to" on the package. For your tank I would say that 2 15 to 20w bulbs would be OK if you continue with your low light plants. Also remember that the fern that you have in there will die soon because it isn't an aquatic plant.
> 
> ...


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## armedbiggiet (May 6, 2006)

that green stuff on the rocks looks okay.

I think you can wait longer before you get any fish in there.... safer that way.

Yes clean it up.



Egbert said:


> Thanks for all the help everyone. So I'm confused, what type of light bulb do I need? I have this kind:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Egbert (Aug 27, 2009)

*Questions and an Update + CO2 Disaster story*

It's been around 19 days since I last posted and a lot has changed. First Thing I want to share is my mishap with the makeshift DIY CO2 System I made about 2 weeks ago. I followed a recipe I found on APC, just the average yeast, sugar, and water mixture. I put it into a large empty apple juice bottle and drilled a hole in the lid and forced an air tube through the hole hoping it would seal. Everything went fine; I had bubbles coming out of a stone and everything. Well I was messing with it one day and put the bottle with the yeast mixture below the tank and walked away for like 2 hours. I came back to find a half emptied tank and water all over my floor. I was like: "How did this happen!?!?!" Then I realized the water must have siphoned out of the tank. I now have the bottles lid sealed it with latex caulking.

I JUST REMEMBERED, some of the yeast/water mixture got into the tank and clouded the water. I know this is bad, but how bad?

MY TANK STINKS! MY ROOM STINKS! And now my clothes are starting to stink. All the plants' leaves are falling off! It's like they are decaying!?!?! What do I do????? It's just odd because their main stems just keep growing taller.

















If you look at my first post and compare the leaves you will notice that most of them are GONE!
This particular plant is growing out of the water. Why? I don't know?

I also got fishies. Tiger Barbs are what I think they are called.








I have three. They seem to be doing okay. My friend has named them Harry, Ron, and Hermione. It quite fits really because the two who have orange fins (prettier ones (Harry and Ron)) always chase around the one without orange (uglier one (Hermione)) But we all know that the uglier one will soon grow into the most beautiful and smartest one of all! : ) Hee hee.

*So I need advice *on what is making my room smell like a swamp land (Or is this normal for a fish tank, THIS SMELL IS REALLY NASTY so I don't think it is.) and why my plants are dying&#8230;errr whatever they are doing.
THNAKS!
Matt.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Do you see any green see-through algae? It would be blue green algae or Cyanobacteria. It can make your tank smell really earthy - like swamp land. If it is Cyanobacteria read about it at this link.

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm

Your plants could be dying from lack of Nitrogen and phosphates. Low Nitrogen is also a cause of blue green algae. You could also be shading your plants which would make the lower leaves drop off.

About your light. I have that fixture. I took off the opaque splash guards and got fluorescent U tube bulbs. Don't use higher than 22W each. It will be too much light. If you look at my 10g shrimp tank thread in post #57 & 61

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/shrimp-other-invertebrates/46980-new-shrimp-tank-10-gal-6.html

I have not found these bulbs in anything but 10,000K but the plants grow very well. I like these better than the spiral ones because there is less restrike and more light goes into the water. This is also the same light I use in my 10g CPD tank. Take a look at the tank, post #33. You can see everything is growing great.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/journals/55974-betta-celestial-pearl-danio-10g-4.html


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## Diesal (Sep 12, 2009)

*Re: Questions and an Update + CO2 Disaster story*



Egbert said:


> It's been around 19 days since I last posted and a lot has changed. First Thing I want to share is my mishap with the makeshift DIY CO2 System I made about 2 weeks ago. I followed a recipe I found on APC, just the average yeast, sugar, and water mixture. I put it into a large empty apple juice bottle and drilled a hole in the lid and forced an air tube through the hole hoping it would seal. Everything went fine; I had bubbles coming out of a stone and everything. Well I was messing with it one day and put the bottle with the yeast mixture below the tank and walked away for like 2 hours. I came back to find a half emptied tank and water all over my floor. I was like: "How did this happen!?!?!" Then I realized the water must have siphoned out of the tank. I now have the bottles lid sealed it with latex caulking.
> 
> Matt.


One way to prevent this from happening again is to use a check Valve in line with your tubing. The way I set up my DIY Co2, is to use 2x 2L bottles the output from each of the 2 bottles goes through the cap and to the bottom of a 1L bottle 1/2-3/4 full of water. From the cap of this bottle runs an output tube to a check valve. The 1L bottles now can be used as a bubble counter/water filter. I use this to monitor the output performance of Co2 from each bottle, also to filter the Co2 as there will be a slimy build up coming from the Yeast mixture. From the Check valves the tubes then goes to a T Connector to merge the two lines into one. From there the tube goes to Another bubble counter/water filter, so the overall perfomance output can be monitored. This goes to another check valve before entering the tank. Also This way you can rotate one of the bottles out on a weekly basis to keep a steady flow without stopping the Co2 flow from the other bottle. Ever since setting it up this way there has never been a mishap with siphoning.  Also it gives you a good idea on how everything is working with a glance. Another thing to do is to put the Whole setup minus the last bubble counter in a good solid office style metal garbage can with a heavy top. This way you won't have to be cleaning that wonderful suger and yeast mixture off the walls and everywhere else if there is ever any kind of blockage in the line, and the bottles decide to explode on you.


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## Egbert (Aug 27, 2009)

Thanks guys. Okay Tex Gal, you are 100% right. It's BGA. It’s like a greenish film that grows over the leaves and substrate! The remove process on the site you gave me is quite lengthy, but if it’s what I have to do to get rid of them then I'll just have to. Can my fish really survive without food for 3 days? And how do I boost nitrates? Maybe that’s why my plants are dying.
That first picture is exacly what it looks like.

And great advice on the co2 system Diesal, I had heard of a check valve but didn’t know if I needed one...guess I do. And I'll get more bottles too.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Yes your fish will survive 3 days without food. No worries there. The 3 day blackout really works. You can't peak. It has to be TOTALLY dark. Without light the bacteria will die. You boost nitrates by fertilizing. You could get dry ferts. That's what I use. There are many brands out there that have nitrate. Plants much have nitrates in order to live.


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## Egbert (Aug 27, 2009)

Should I buy a test kit, if so what kind? There is like Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate, pH/Alkalinity, KH?...Do I need all of these? I just dont know what I need to keep a healthy tank.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Those are the kits I have. I test once in a blue moon. At the beginning I was testing a lot. I think you may need to find what works for you.

Remember to lower your light wattage. You also need CO2 with high light. Once you kill the Cyanobacteria you still have to fix the cause. If you are going to continue with high light and then of course, CO2 you might want to consider EI dosing. Look on the fertilizer forum and you'll be able to read about it.


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