# Diana Walstad Influenced Experimental Tank



## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

I have been observing this forum for quite some time and I've finally decided to post 

Just sharing my experimental tank that I have set up based on Diana Walstad's idea. I don't comply to everything she mentions but some of the things I do them based on common sense or based on other aquascaping ideas. In other word, I mix and match with experiment based on my personal curiosity.

The tank was set up about 3 weeks ago. Information about the tank is as follows:

1. 15 U.S. gallon tank (standard 2 feet tank)
2. 36 watt Dymax PLL and switched on for about 6-7 hours per day. I switched on for about 3 hours then switch it off for an hour. Then turned it on again. 
3. Garden soil labeled as Top Soil.
4. Holland sand
5. A rock for tying ferns

No filter, no fertiliser and no fan (we use fan to cool down the temperature in planted tank in my country sometimes).

Before setting up the tank, I tested several soil to identify the suitable one. You may have a look at how I did it at my blog: 
http://umbrellarec.blogspot.com/

All four corners of the tank is surrounded by Holland sand and add garden soil in the middle. The purpose is to hide the soil from viewers:








Cover the top of the garden soil with Holland sand:


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Initially, I added "dirty" water extracted from existing tank's filter and added water from existing tank to speed up the cycling process.

The tank is not exposed to sunlight.

I planted some roots of Cryptocoryne Affinis hoping that they will grow. Added some hornwort to absorb any extra nutrient for algae prevention. Also tied some pathetic looking tiny Java Fern and Philippines Fern to a rock. I dumped all the Endlers given by a friend into the tank. I do agree that I have always been very impatient with cycling process 

Last weekend, I received two packets of plants as well as some Platies from another friend. Again I dumped them all into the tank.

I slowly removed the mess of those plants for the next few days and even gave some away to a friend.

This is the current list of plants in the tank. There are some that I have not identified:

1. Glosso
2. Limnophila aromatica
3. Hornwort
4. Marsilea
5. Narrow Leaf Fern
6. Tiny Bolbitis
7. Philippines Fern
8. Cryptocoryne Affinis
9. Vallisneria Nana
10. Didiplis diandra? (I am not 100% sure of the ID)
11. Lobelia cardinalis? (I am not 100% sure of the ID)
12. Blyxa
13. Duckweed (not purposely added)
14. Rotala Indica
15. Bits of Water Wisteria
16. Unknown Moss (looks like Christmas or Java Moss)

List of fishes (I have no idea how many of them):
1. Platies
2. Endlers
3. A lonely Black Molly fry

This is the tank as of 9 March 2009:








This is the tank as of today (15 March 2009). I have removed all the pink unknown plants because I believe thay cannot survive in my tank due to insufficient light:


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

It looks like your plants are doing great, but I'm worried about your fish. Just looking at the pictures makes me wonder. Are the fish at the surface looking for food, or are they gasping for air? I sincerely hope it is the former.

This is a new tank with a soil substrate and no water circulation. Moreover, you have only 6 hour of light. That means that there is no plant photosynthesis producing oxygen for about 17 hours of darkness. 

Remember that for the first 2-3 months, soil will pull oxygen out of the water. 

I would do something (add air bubbler, increase daylength to 12-14 hr, etc) to temporarily get more oxygen into this tank.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Diana, thanks for the suggestion. Maybe I can add a filter temporarily. It should help clearing the floating leaves. I am still struggling to remove them since I dumped 2 bags of messy mixed-up plants into the tank weeks ago.

Regarding the fishes, they're just demanding food from me whenever they see me. Very greedy in fact. I can't blame them because initially I under fed them due to the fact that I was used to the little amount I had to feed the Endlers. I realised the Platies were big eaters like swordtails only days later


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Based on personal experience, I have bad luck in avoiding water changes. My fishes tend to die off if I skip water change for 1 or 2 weeks. Those are planted tanks supplied with CO2, filter, fan (to cool down the tropical temperature) and fertiliser. With the same type of tanks, some of my friends managed to stay away from water changes for one month or longer.

I wonder whether I will have better luck in Diana Walstad's experimental tank after the first 3 months of weekly water changes since so many of you mention that you can avoid water changes for 6 months - 1 year. Is there any special trick I am unaware of?


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

One more question:

If I add a filter/air pump, does that mean I am pushing CO2 out of the tank? Should I turn on the filter/air pump only when the light is off?


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## colinsk (Dec 29, 2008)

totziens said:


> Based on personal experience, I have bad luck in avoiding water changes. My fishes tend to die off if I skip water change for 1 or 2 weeks. Those are planted tanks supplied with CO2, filter, fan (to cool down the tropical temperature) and fertiliser. With the same type of tanks, some of my friends managed to stay away from water changes for one month or longer.
> 
> I wonder whether I will have better luck in Diana Walstad's experimental tank after the first 3 months of weekly water changes since so many of you mention that you can avoid water changes for 6 months - 1 year. Is there any special trick I am unaware of?


You need to have very active plant growth. If you take all of your prunings for the month and dry them and weigh it, it should match the weight of food you have supplied (assuming you have not added fertilizer.) The idea is the percentage of elements in any living thing is pretty close to each other.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

totziens said:


> Diana, thanks for the suggestion. Maybe I can add a filter temporarily. It should help clearing the floating leaves. I am still struggling to remove them since I dumped 2 bags of messy mixed-up plants into the tank weeks ago.
> 
> Regarding the fishes, they're just demanding food from me whenever they see me. Very greedy in fact. I can't blame them because initially I under fed them due to the fact that I was used to the little amount I had to feed the Endlers. I realised the Platies were big eaters like swordtails only days later


Glad to hear that your fish are just greedy for food. Aren't we all?

If that's the case, don't worry about aeration.

But to answer your question. If fish are struggling for air, that probably means that there's more than enough CO2 for plants. Bacteria remove one oxygen molecule for every CO2 molecule produced. Thus, if water is low in oxygen, that means there's plenty of CO2 for plants.

Based on your pictures and what you've written, it looks like the plants and fish are doing fine!


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Thanks again, Diana. Glad to hear that I don't need aeration because my extension has run out of sockets. 

Looks like I need to spend some time tidying up the tank a bit. It looks like a big messy jungle now. It will be ashamed for Diana's name to be related to my experiment if it looks so horrible. :fear: Once the other plants grow well without any algae and those floating plants grows fine, I hope to remove the hornwort.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

No apologies necessary. It looks like your Hornwort is doing a great job mopping up extra nutrients, providing oxygen, and preventing algae. Wish I had some Hornwort in my new tank!


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

I wish you're living nearby. I'm always happy to throw some hornwort into your tank  I am a regular free hornwort supplier  I even offered to supply the LFS free of charge but they rejected my offer because I refused to tie up the plants for them. Well, they can't expect something free and expect me to do extra job, right?


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

This is how the tank looks like after removing Hornwort. I am having difficulties keeping the Glosso planted because the Platies keep pulling them out. The water looks a bit brownish comparing with the rest of my non-garden soil tanks. I suppose it does not look that bad as it stands out among the tanks. Maybe I have been replanting the Glosso almost everyday causing the soil to be stirred up a bit. No outbreak of algae so far. The fry are still able to hide among the plants although I saw some fry being chased around by the adults a few times. It's no longer as safe as when Hornwort was around. The Hornwort really caused a big mess in the tank since it melted without any light for one day. I put them into the bin. I also have difficulties keeping the stem plants planted. Somehow, they keep floating up. So I decide to let them be.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

totziens said:


> I am having difficulties keeping the Glosso planted because the Platies keep pulling them out. I also have difficulties keeping the stem plants planted. Somehow, they keep floating up. So I decide to let them be.
> 
> View attachment 8591


It sounds like you're using the wrong plants or your substrate is going anaerobic. That's why your plants keep floating to the surface. And believe me, Platies cannot pull up a well-rooted, healthy plant.

The Hornwort covered up the substrate problem. Now that you've removed the Hornwort, the problem is glaringly evident. All that bare substrate is not good. Moreover, it may be too late.

Folks, this is why I always recommend starting out with many plants and a large variety of plant species-- rooted, floating, stem plants, etc. If you've got a soil underlayer, you want to have robust rooted plant growth to keep it from going anaerobic. Remember, with a soil substrate, you really can't vacunm the gravel, so you're depending on plants to keep substrate from going toxic.

I would replant this tank with a variety of rooted plants-- Val, Sagittaria, Echinodorus, Cryptocoryne, etc. If they float to the surface, then poke holes in the substrate and introduce Malaysian Trumpet Snails. Make sure that the total daylength is more than 6-7 hours. Put stones around stem plants to keep them from dislodging. If they're not taking hold, that means the substrate is probably killing the roots with H2S.

I'm not optimistic.


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## prBrianpr (Nov 18, 2007)

Plants root make the substrate healthy, right? I read that they pump oxigen to the substrate and my experiments says that roots helps substrate


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

The stem plant I am having difficulties keeping it rooted is Limnophila aromatica. Not a very suitable plant for this tank I believe as it would turn green but I decided give it a try since my friend gave it to me. The regular re-planting of Glosso may have impacted these plants to float when I accidentally drag them by accident via those floating plant. Maybe I have not been planting them deep enough for the fear of stirring up the soil.

There are just tiny bits and pieces of Glosso in the tank. Whenever the larger Platies search for food at the bottom of the tank brushing against them, they will slowly uprooted a bit. Repetition of this action will eventually uprooted the whole plant. I have seen some of them actually pull the Glosso out as if they're fish food/algae. I have a feeling that Glosso won't grow very well here. It's not my favourite plant anyway.


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## prBrianpr (Nov 18, 2007)

it seems a lack of light or iron. you dont use rich iron substrate like clay and that is a problem because the iron of top soil not are bio-abailable at first time. Or if the light is low the glosso grow upward.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

I personally think it's still too early for the plants to show any sign of fertiliser deficiency because the tank is still very new, unless you're referring to lighting issue. The lighting issue that I encountered on Hornwort was very obvious although it happened in just one day (Hornwort melted) - that's the reason I put them into the bin.

The types of plants I have are not purposely planned except for the Crypts (it was initially planned to be a tank filled with Crypts only). I just accepted whatever that my friends gave me and dumped them into this experimental tank. I have got idea to keep the stem plants rooted and I will try it tonight - I think I didn't plant them deep enough.

I have no plan to do anything about the Glosso. The problem is not caused by lack of light but it's caused by constant disturbance by the Platies. I will replace them with Marsilea or other plant if I can't keep Glosso alive as foreground plant.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Just a quick update that I have managed to keep Limnophila aromatica rooted nicely now. Basically I remove the leaves at the bottom of the plants for about an inch and try my best to plant them as deep as possible. 

I have been thinking of Glosso replacement


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## prBrianpr (Nov 18, 2007)

well, put heavy rooted plants only, like E. tenellus. The Iron deficency is because it can be there but in no-bioavailable form, bacteria process to a bio-available form but only when you get a considerable number of bacteria in the substrate you will see the plan grow well. I know that the glosso can be very hard to mantain a tank like this. (I have glosso in my natural too) You can consider E. parvula too for the foreground and not glosso. Also glosso need good lighting to staying horizontal grow and not vertical.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Thanks, prBrianpr. I will take the types of plants you suggest into consideration. Let's hope that I can find them. I am aware that Glosso will grow vertically without sufficient light. This is something annoying to me - this is the reason I mentioned that Glosso is not my first choice.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

By the way, is E. parvula you refer is called Eleocharis parvula/dwarf hairgrass? Will it be hard to maintain or in other words, is it a high maintenance plant? I have heard some complaint about keeping it debris free. I have bad experience with moss due to debris issue leading to hair algae, so I am trying my best to avoid any high maintenance plant.

Echinodorus tenellus - I have tried this plant about 1-2 years ago. I like the look of this plant but I failed to keep them alive even though they're supposed to be easy to keep (they rot). Maybe the substrate I used was not rich enough (I used Holland sand with Seachem root tab and supplied with CO2 + 36 watt PL in that 15 gallon tank)


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## prBrianpr (Nov 18, 2007)

for E. Tenellus, iron is very impotant.

This is my El Natural (not strictly El Natural,I use ferts sometimes)










I have there, anubia, crypts, Bacopa, E. parvula, Echino. Amazonicus, Echino. "tropica", and dwarf. sagitaria. Also have HC but that plant not is the bst for the El. Natural, I have that because I use only sunlight. the E. parvula grows like weed now(i think that the substrate is very healthy now because the massive plants roots that it have now). The sagitaria grows very good too. This and other that I have are the only that I use potting soil called miracle gro with peat moss and semi- minarelized soil that I used in pot for aquarium plants. Questions welcome


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Your Eleocharis parvula/dwarf hairgrass looks like there's no issue with debris. It does not give me the impression that it's too difficult based on the photo of your tank. Is that so? How often do you do water change?

A friend of mine will give me some Saggitaria Subulata to try out since I have never kept any. They may grow tall though. I think they are more suitable as mid ground plants.


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## prBrianpr (Nov 18, 2007)

sagitaria subulata only grow small in high light, my tank recive sun light about 1-2 hours of direct sunlight and the other indirect sunlight. Can be kept in low light but as you say it grow taller. w/c only 1-2 times a month but im trying to low the w/c to minimum possible. the plants not get debris if the tank is very mature. this is because in a mature tank the debris and particles precipitate very fast (make sure that you dont make a lot of w/c). A good filter helps too, if you want the filter can use a micron filter in the first months, In this tank I only use a normal sponge only for big particles, Also bacteria grow in the sponge making it clogged but is still water pass at good rate the sponge make all the work. A clogged sponge like this cleans the water very well, make shure when cleaning the sponge only use aquarium water. This tank is 5 month old and I not have any algae bloom since the first 2 months, the plants grows well and all debris precipitate fast to the substrate. If I move the substrate the debris contaminate all the water (I never syphon the gravel). That same debris is nutrient for the plants. As you see the gravel have brown parts, this is sediments, particles, fish wastes, debris. The plants roots thrives in that, and the pH of substrate is acid so that help the roots a lot.


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Thanks for the information. I got more plants today. I only asked for sagitaria subulata but my friend gave me more than what I asked for  He gave me some Rotala "green" and "red" and another unidentified plant. Will find out the name tomorrow. I have also bought some Bacopa today. Just trying to fill up the tank with more plants to absorb the nutrients. 

I will try to minimise the amount of water change in this tank as well because my wife has been complaining that I waste too much water (I have 6 tanks in various sizes and thinking of setting up the 7th tank) This is my one and only tank with garden soil 

Will shoot a photo when I am free..


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## prBrianpr (Nov 18, 2007)

oh, haha that a lot!!. well I also have a lot of tanks. 15 tank of 10G in my plant store in my home and 2 tanks in my room. One of 30G and the other of 3 G. My father have one tank of 55G and my brother one of 20G. My 15 10G tanks are in El Natural. I have photos in this link:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/60915-who-says-el-natural-mod-el.html

enjoy


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

Yeah, I have seen your tanks. I definitely can't beat you  Even if I want to, there's no space in an apartment 

Recently I have seen an apartment with about 10-11 tanks. The entire living room are surrounded by tanks in 4 directions. No tank in the rooms as most of us, Asians, don't like to have fish tanks in the room - we believe the moist is not good for health and the some people believe it's bad "feng shui".


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## totziens (Jun 28, 2008)

I have added the following plants and make sure some of the stem plants such as Limnophila Aromatica & Rotala Indica are planted at the background. The first four new plants are supplied by my friend.

- Rotala Rotundifolia
- Rotala Sp. "Green"
- Eleocharis Vivipara
- Sagitaria Subulata
- Bacopa (not sure of the exact species)


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