# Little help, please :-)



## TortoiseBoy (Dec 30, 2004)

Hello,
I have been having ongoing problems with my 90g tank that has been set up for about 1.5 years, now. Stats are listed below this discussion. The current problem focuses on what I assume is BBA. It is not the little brushy kind - the SAE's beat that back pretty well - it is the black encrusting stuff. Sorry about the lack of a picture. The stuff is all over. It is all over my equipment (intakes/outputs, probes, etc.). It blankets most of my slow-growing plants, too. The annubias are the worst. Basically, any leaf on any plant that hangs around long enough will end up having this stuff on it. I have tried boosting the CO2 as has been suggested by many of the posts I have read, but that doesn't seem to help. I have also tried to treat both tank-wide and topically (squirting directly with a syringe) with Flourish Excel. I have tried peroxide topically, as well. This particular algae does not respond to these treatments. The only thing that has worked temporarily is bleach baths (1:20 solution for a couple of minutes) , but I have only done this on the annubias and the algae comes back soon and stronger than ever. It completely coats the leaves of the annubias to where I can't tell that they are green anymore. I have tried blackouts a few times, as well. I have also tried floating fast-growing plants at the surface. According to my test kits, I am fairly successful at keeping the levels of nutrients that I am shooting for. Lately, I have had to add NO3 only after water changes. I assume that this is because I am adding enough fish food that nitrate is taken care of. I do have to add PO4 during the week to maintain levels, however. 

I have been through GW, string, thread, etc. and come out of it. I don't have those problems much anymore. I still get quite a bit of algae on the sides of the tank, but it is usually the easily-scrapable kind. The black encrusting stuff is what has me scratching my head. Any ideas out there? I am willing to try just about anything at this point. Thanks much for taking the time to read my post.

Have a good week,

TB


My tank:
90 gal
2.4 wpg AHSupply bright CF kit (2x 6700 and 2x 9352 bulbs) - 10 hours/day
Fiiltration: Eheim 2028 with a Hagen 800 powerhead for circulation 
Substrate: Eco-complete
Temp: 80-81
10-20ppm NO3 (I have played with this value and PO4 for the last several months)
0.5-1ppm PO4
I dose about 2 tsp of stock CSM+B solution 2-3x/week
pH: 6.6
kH: 4deg (after adding 2 tsp of baking soda after each water change)
Pressurized CO2 on a Milwaukee controller: ~30ppm, using the tables (I have experimented with altering these values, as well) 
I do weekly ~75% water changes.

I do get some pearling in the late afternoon/evening.

The fish load is fairly heavy: 6 Neon Rainbows, 14 Cardinals, 8 Rasboras, 2 Med. Clown Loaches, 6 SAE's, 3 Corys, some Otos. I say the load is heavy because they eat enough food that I don't have to add much NO3 between weekly water changes.

Plants are varied, but I seem to have lots of slow-growing species. Lots of java fern, annubias, crypts, liriodendron, a couple of huge ozelot swords and then some relatively fast-growing things like parrot feather, myriophyllum (sp?) of some sort, hydrocotyl, and mayaca.


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

I had a very similar problem with BBA, it coated everything in my tank, the whole damn tank was black instead of green. Had me for months without a cure. I did 2 things at the same time that really seemed to kill it off.

Basically i removed all fish/shrimp/etc and gunned the Co2 to about 300ppm. I kept it here for another month. This seemed to prevent any new BBA from sprouting on leaves, but did nothing to kill off the old stuff.

I did x2 initial dose of excel and then x3 dose every day after that until it all died off. I used a syringe to squirt the stuff directly into the algae. It took a few days, but then it started to turn red where i had squirted and shortly after that it went brown and decayed away.

It seems that you have already tried both lots of co2 and excel, but i encourage you to try it again, just dose a lot more of both. 

What i did was a one, two, knockout since no new BBA could replace the older stuff that i killed off with the excel, and the excel stopped new spawns from occurring.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Increasing CO2 does a good job of preventing BBA from starting, but if you have a major amount in the tank, it won't kill it. Also, if you have BBA you probably don't have enough CO2. So, I suggest removing all of it from the tank, by trimming plants, eliminating badly infested plants, dipping hardy plants in a bleach solution, dipping equipment in a bleach solution. Then replant the tank and jack up the CO2 until the fish are showing discomfort and hanging around only at the surface. Then back it back down until they stop doing that. (Make these changes a little at a time, while observing the fish carefully.) Now, measure the tank pH and KH and use those numbers plus the bubble rate to try to hold that setting the same every day. Use the solenoid to shut down the CO2 at night, so the fish have the best chance to recuperate from high CO2 during the day. But, don't assume the KH/pH table gives the actual ppm of CO2 you have - it doesn't matter anyway.


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## TortoiseBoy (Dec 30, 2004)

Good suggestions, folks. Thanks for taking the time. I would love to be able to move the fish out for treating the tank, but that is the disadvantage of a 90g. I don't have another one sitting around that the fish can just hang out in. Boarding at an LFS is an option, but there are not many that I would trust to take good care of my fish. I think that I will take both of your advice, though, and try the Excel again (I still have some of the 2 liter bottle left) and do a serious cull/cleaning of the tank to get rid of existing algae as well as I can. 

Hoppy, your post suggests some disturbing things about what I thought I knew about CO2. I think you are probably right that I don't have as much CO2 in the tank as I think I do. This represents a pretty big question mark to the hobby, IMO. Much of the hardware that people are using is designed, at least in part, to take advantage of the kH/pH/CO2 relationship. In my case, what do you suggest I do to increase CO2 and still be able to use my pH controller? Should I artificially boost the kH further so that I don't have to drop the pH? I think some of my fish would be uncomfortable at pH lower than the 6.6 that I am running right now. If I add baking soda, the CO2 should go up or are we so unsure of the tables that even this statement is uncertain? I am worried about this situation mainly because my regulator/needle valve are totally incapable of maintaining a specific bubble rate over time. The controller is the only thing that bails me out. Any further suggestions? 

Thanks again for the suggestions.

TB


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

It really is possible to regulate the bubble rate with the regulator and needle valve. Set the pressure at about 25 psi, then close down the needle valve until you get around a bubble every second or so. Let it sit at that for an hour or two and if it wont stabilize, increase the pressure to about 30 psi and repeat. Unsually at around 30 to 40 psi the bubble rate will always stabilize. Once that is done, use the regulator to adjust the bubble rate a bit by raising or lowering the output pressure slightly.

If the above still doesn't do it, remember that fish are not affected by drop in pH due to CO2, unless it is a really extreme drop. So, just lower the pH controller setting slightly and watch the fish, etc. If you are really uncomfortable with pH down below 6.5, add some baking soda to raise the KH a bit. You don't get more CO2 that way, but it raises the pH for a given amount of CO2. Sudden big changes in KH are more likely to be harmful to the fish than CO2 caused pH drops.


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