# Help with PPS , PPS pro , PPS classic ??



## starsunmoon (Apr 1, 2008)

I have read everything I can find. I have the grams printed out , I know to use the 

1 liter bottle 
59 grams K2SO4
65 grams KNO3
6 grams KH2P04
it says 41 grams MgSO4 *( I dont have any ) 
fill with distilled water, and this is 1 ML per 10 gallon 

ok, I get this , my problem is I have tried every scale I can get my hands on, *( other than buying a 20-30 & scale ) and I cant get the right amount in the bottle .  

I know each fert weighs differnt , or I would just use the teaspoon =5 grams +3teaspoons is a tablespoon . so 5 tablespoons would be 50 grams ....... I was doing it this way when I ran into my probelm . my scale is NOT working . I was trying to see how much weight EACH fert , *(3) in a teaspoon OR tablespoon weighed, so I could know' how many to add to my bottle . *(PLEASE HELP) 

I have a 55, 45, 20, 10 , 5.5 gallons to dose , so the PPS seems like the best for me , 1ML for 10 gallons , is ALOT easier than 1/32 and remebering to dose each diff small amount in each tank . 

SO what I am asking , 

WILL ANYONE, SOMEONE TELL ME THE GRAMS IN TEASPOON, OF EACH OF THE 3 FERTS I HAVE 

EXP. 59 GRAMS K2SO4 (say 60) = ?? __ teaspoons ???
65 grams KN03 = ?? __ teaspoons ????
6 grams KH2P04 = ?? __ teaspoon ?? 

ALSO please let me know in the OTHER liter bottle HOW much CSM&B to add, in teaspoons ?? 

right now I have a EI version in the fridge I have been dosing with, is that the same strength , or more than PPS ? 


Can ANYONE please just give me these #'s from thier scale ? PLEASE ~ 

I have read hours & hours of threads, post , help ads, articles, and I have got way to specific before, now I am on the easier train, But unless I am just missing somthing here, I need these #'s , It would be easy IF they all weighed the same . They do not . So I got stuck on the 2nd fert, went to add into my bottle and wanted to test' the scale half tablespoons in *(3) and I got my end result as of grams , not 30 somthing but already up into the 60's where I still needed 3 tablespoons to be soposedly !!!!!! AARRGGHH~~~~ so if anyone could please just answer that simple question , 
simple IF YOU HAVE THE SCALE ............... I could start my dosing today . 

I have dosed dry for a week or so , it is showing a improvement but like I metioned is very hard to do with 5-6 tanks to dose . All differnt sizes. sorry to write a book, but I want the (go search ) people to understand I have searched my head off, and the only one thread I found that gives a teaspoon mearuement was on CSM&B< I have already mixed that as EI , and its in the fridge, *( thinking of that , I will most likely need the PPS version of that measured out in a spoon per liter as well ..................... any and all help would be appreciated . sorry for typos, and the length ....LOL 

and as the title says 

I DO NOT KNOW YET THE DIFFERNCE, OR REALLY WHAT IS 
PPS, PPSPRO, PPS CLASSIC.. 

I HAVE READ lots of info, but am still not sure of the differance of each , any link that IS truly helpful to me with that info would be greatly appreciated too . 


not to confuse anyone more than I already have , But I was also thinking , ok if I dosed as wolfenexx says to for a 20/40 gallon tank , I could add that by 3X"S a week that would make weekly bottles, BUT I would have to have 5 bottles for 5 tanks, and I DO NOT KNOW HOW MUCH TO DOSE, OTHER THAN A 3RD OF THE BOTTLE ... LOL ) 

This is why I chose PPS < still do not know ALL the varances, But have found this one, and I belive it will work, I can always add later, when my plants look like they need somthing more, I can test for nitrate, nothing else , and I have read from rex grigg himself that you dont HAVE to test, but it is nice to . I dont have the extra $$ right now, so I will just have to skip the luxary . 


I give thanxs to any and ALL that can help me . Please use your scales you bought to measure YOUR ferts, as I have read where cooking scales & etc, are OFF . you know the .... scale . I may PM and bug a few people I see as experts in the forums on this subject and direct them here, as I need all the help I can get . LOL :mad2::doh::doh::smokin::frusty:


----------



## starsunmoon (Apr 1, 2008)

ok, I have read ' the sticky , YES . I know that classic, and pro . I know these and I am going with the pro . I will be doing water changes, just not every week, and I want to dose in a strength that will most benefit my plants I want them to be healthy , more than grow fast . I DO have diy co2 that is not regular, I need to stay on top of it and I plan on that . I am redoing ALL 6 co2 2 liers today , starting fresh and hopefully starting the PPS PRO today as well , as soon as someone can give me these #"S < PLEASE ~~~ ?????


----------



## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

The information you want is:

12.5 teaspoons = 65 grams KNO3
9.5 teaspoons = 59 grams 
1.1 teaspoons = 6 grams KH2PO4
8 teaspoons = 41 grams MgSO4

I calculated this using the fertilator on APC (top left of the page, next to plantfinder) to calculate the values you want. They have teaspoons and grams there, so you won’t have to really search anymore.

If you tested it after mixing 65 grams, 59 grams, etc… with the 2 liters you would end up with (65 grams)/2000 mL = 0.0325 grams per mL. So when you take out 1 mL and add it to your 55 gallon tank it will raise the total nitrate level by 0.1 ppm. You would need to add 10 mL of liquid from the 2 liter bottle to the 55 gallon tank to raise the nitrate concentration to by 1 ppm. In your 45 gal tank you would need to add 8.3 mL to get the total tank concentration to rise 1 ppm, etc… All these confusing numbers aside, you should use the fertilator to find out how many mL or teaspoons to add to each tank.

I wouldn't recommend mixing a bottle of CSM+B and storing it over time. The minerals in it tend to encourage some kind of fungus to grow that consumes the nutrients within it. If you absolutely must add CSM+B add 1 or 2 drops of methylene blue to the bottle after you mix it (this will help reduce fungus growth). 

I dose CSM+B, and all my other chemicals, directly into the tank water in dry form since they are most stable when kept dry and tend to be consumed or degrade over time when mixed in water. CSM+B is light sensitive (because of the iron in it) and so is best dosed at night when the lights are off. CSM+B will react with KH2PO4 and degrade the nutrients in both if dosed at the same time. It won't react like an explosion or anything, but the metals within CSM+B will bind to the phosphate (PO4) part and inactivate both as nutrients. This happens in very small amounts and probably isn't even an issue in a large aquarium where the two chemicals are likely to be absorbed by plants before coming in contact with each other, though in small tank, or in larger quantities it might be more of a problem. I mention this general knowledge so you can make an informed decision on how you want to dose, and how to maximize the time each nutrient spends in the water column.


----------



## starsunmoon (Apr 1, 2008)

thanxs !!! I tried ALL caculaters, could not find a thing !!! thank you ~ I am dosing PPS and I belive it is 1ML per 10 gallon ... 

and I will watch my plants, if they need more, i will adjust the dose. 

thank you , I knew you were the one to ask !!! lol 

I have a bottle already mixed of the csm&b , I have it in the fridge, It is ei, so probally more than what I will need using the pps method. thats why I asked, if any one else wants to chime in , tell me how you do YOUR tank with PPS PRO< that would be appreciated. thank you zapins, your awesome ~!!!!!


----------



## starsunmoon (Apr 1, 2008)

yea I tried to use the fertilator I can nopt figure it out . I guess one main reason is I do not know how much I need in each tank , I do not have a test kit . this is one of my reasons for dosing with the pps pro,. so its a already measured dose, the 1 ML per 10 gallons, I can do that , that is easy . I have been out of school for a long tme now, and even thow I am a sub teacher it is not the same . I get all the answers, not having to take the test ... But I do apprecaite you doing this for me . thank you IF an one knows any better way for me to be doing this please let me know . 

I have a 55 gallon, a 45, a 20, a 10 and a 5.5 that I am having to dose, one more reason why I dont want to be hovered over each tank with a scale wondering how much to add. so any & all help would be great !! ~~~~ thank you ~


----------



## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

I think you should take the time to learn how to use the Fertilator. It is probably the best calculator out there for managing fertilizers. Since you are doing PPS-Pro you will need to do a lot more calculations than using an EI dosing scheme.

The Fertilator is straight forwards, it has the recommended dosages on the bottom under where it says "Results." You can see it says 10-20 ppm (part per million) for Nitrates, 0.5-2.0 ppm for PO4 etc... All you have to do is put the size of the tank in at the top (ex:55 gal), then choose the chemical you will be dosing and then put how many teaspoons you will add, click calculate and have a look at the results.

The results mean that if you add the number of teaspoons of whichever chemical you chose at the top the nutrient levels will rise by a set number of ppm.


----------



## info scavenger (Jun 25, 2008)

I just got my dry ferts and have been sooo.... frustrated trying to figure out how to use the fertilator.:icon_hang _Thank you Zapins _for explaining it in simple terms. This is going to make my venture into dry ferts much easier I hope.


----------



## Nevermore (Mar 26, 2007)

For PPS-Pro you need a scale. One that measures down to 1 gram is fine:


Edward said:


> if you compare this with spoon users whose error is +/- 100% we are still pretty accurate.


All you do is mix up the two solutions and dose 1 mL/10 gallons of each. So you'll dose 5.5 mLs of macro and trace each into your 55 g tank, 4.5 mLs of each into your 45 g tank, etc. Very straight forward.

Where to get a scale? http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...-suffice-measuring-out-fert-3.html#post446175


----------



## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

info Scavenger - no problem! I hope it helps you dose more accurately with greater ease.

In addition to Nevermore's good info about teaspoons being inaccurate and the link you might also want to search ebay using the keywords "scale gram" or "jewelry scale," or you can have a look at the link below.

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38.l1313&_nkw=scale+gram&_sacat=See-All-Categories

The scales accurate to within 0.1 grams cost about 12$ and the scales accurate to within 0.01 grams are roughly 24$ shipped.


----------



## starsunmoon (Apr 1, 2008)

thank you , yea I did not want to spend another 30 bux on the scale. I have one here, but its a weight scale, to sell items, and price for shipping qoutes, and I also used some hand scale, but they were not accurate ethier . I have read that each chemical is a differnt weight, and when I trued to weigh everything , I get really confused. * must be the blonde in me ..LOL I thought maybye since all of those who did but a scale, maybye they would help me out with the measurements. and I also know there are lots of other people using this method, and I thought they would know excatly how many teaspoons of each to add to the liter bottle . I am still a little confused on the ferilatar , I dont really know' how much I need of each item. 

I am sure your teaspoon is right, which tank size did you find that for ?: 

would it matter ?? 

thank you nevermore for the links, again I have read endlessly on this subject, I belive I have made it alot more compicated than it truly is . LOL  
what I really need is someone else that uses this method to tell me excatly how many teaspoons of each to add, is zapins measurements correst for me ? thanxs to all and any help . 

thank you again zapins for all your help, I really wish you had your items with you now thow .. i am just over analizing this I know, buut I would love to be sure' . 

How long should this one liter last ? 

well with one tank, I have 6 . LOL


----------



## starsunmoon (Apr 1, 2008)

ok, was ckin with the fertilator, I found the drop down bar at the top, am I right when I look at KN03, and see ........

one TBS tbs 15 ML = 15.60 grams 
and one tsp 1tsp,5ML = 5.20 grams 


so if this is right , then I just use some math along with the fertilator and come up with how many teaspoons I need for KNO3, !! argh , I hate math !!! 

so I am now at a guess , since I cant even find my home caclulater ..LOL , that the above statement IS true . 12.5 teaspoons . LMAO ~~~~~~~~


----------



## starsunmoon (Apr 1, 2008)

again zapins THANK YOU !!!!! ~ 
The information you want is:

12.5 teaspoons = 65 grams KNO3
9.5 teaspoons = 59 grams 
1.1 teaspoons = 6 grams KH2PO4
8 teaspoons = 41 grams MgSO4


I appreciate this , and thank you fro helping me, where as many would say , go search ' or here is a link to read. LOL 

I have read everything I could find. and this was my missing link ... 


I will now go back to the fertilater and see how many diff #'s I can put into it , and what all I can find on my own . 
thank you !!


----------



## starsunmoon (Apr 1, 2008)

8 teaspoons = 41 grams MgSO4



hey , I dont have this , IS this somthing I should buy ? or is there a supplement that would work ? 

also with the GH booster, do I need that? I dont have etheir of these 2 now .


----------



## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

I think the best and most simple method to dose your tank would be to:

1) Choose the option "Get concentrations from chemicals added" at the top of the page where it says "Calculation type," 
2) then put in 55 gallons (or whatever tank size you want to find the correct dosage for), 
3) choose the chemicals you will be adding 
4) and then input how many teaspoons, or grams you want to add to the tank and look at how much that raises the concentration of the tank.

What this will do for you is: if you have 0 NO3, in the tank for example, and you add 1 teaspoon of KNO3 to the 55 gallon tank it will raise the nutrient levels to 15.32 ppm. If you look at the bottom in the results section you will see (10-20) under the nitrate box, this is a recommended level, meaning that if you keep your nitrates between 10 and 20 ppm your plants will grow well, if you raise or lower it out of that range you might have problems.

So for the first dose if your tap water has 0 ppm of nitrate you will add 1 teaspoon of KNO3 to the water and that will raise the tank's level to 15.32 ppm.

If you do a test and you find the tap water is about 8 ppm nitrate then if you add 1 teaspoon of KNO3 you will raise the tank's nitrate level to 23.32 ppm (8 ppm + 15.32ppm).

So, when you do your PPS-Pro regimen you will want to do an initial test for nitrates (and the other chemicals), plug in some arbitrary number of teaspoons to see how much the fertilizer levels will be increased and then try different numbers until what you get in the result box is between the recommended levels when you add the initial tap concentrations. This will help you find how much to add on the *first dose*.

For *weekly dosing*, you will need to test the water and see how much your plants have used during the week. So if you initially had 15.32 ppm nitrate in the water, and then you test at the end of the week and find you only have 5 ppm nitrate left, you will plug in some fraction of a teaspoon to see how much KNO3 to add to get 10 ppm (to bring up the total level to about 15.32 ppm). In this case if you want to add 10 ppm you will add roughly 2/3rd of a teaspoon (.65 teaspoons).

Using the fertilator to calculate how much dry chemical to add to the tank instead of how much to add to a dosing bottle will eliminate a step and a quite a bit of maths involved in figuring out how many mL to add to each tank (different sized tanks need different mL). It will also keep the fertilizers fresh since when they are mixed in solution they can be attached by bacteria and fungus and be digested.

PPS-Pro's objective is to try and keep stable concentrations of nutrients without exceeding certain ranges (like the nitrate recommended range of 10-20ppm). The theory is that if you add exactly the right amount of nutrients that the plants are using then water changes to remove extra nutrients are not very essential. This method does have its drawbacks though. One drawback is that you will find yourself testing the water frequently, measuring out chemicals frequently and doing a fair bit of fertilator calculating, which may add up to about the same time as doing a 50% water change like the EI method dictates.

In the end, it is up to you which method to choose, both work well, but you will need to try a method out and stick with it consistently to get good results.

You probably don't need to add MgSO4 as there is usually enough in tap water for the plants. However, if you are planning on going extremely long periods of time without changing the water, then you will need to buy it because the plants will eventually use up the Mg and SO4 in the water column and then develop deficiencies.


----------



## starsunmoon (Apr 1, 2008)

I will use the fertilator, thank you I have been playing with all the differnt drop downs, and #'s . 


I do NOT want to buy a scale . 

I do NOT want to buy more test kits ,. 

I have the freshwater liqid test kit 
it test PH, ammonia, nitrite, & nitrate ,
will this insure me not to maybye overdos my tank > ? 

I will start my dosing with the #'s that are soposed to be good for each size tank . *( thank god for that free info ) lol this is way more complcated than it should be with everyone that is using these methods, seems like more info should be freely available .( like the last few steps ) I know there is alot , but I had to pull teeth to get where I am today , and I am not yet comfortable with this yet . 

I read a report that said it should be ok to not test , I can copy & paste that I read, I am sure it was a major player , But I may have read it wrong . 


~~ lol but I belive I am close to where I need to be . thank you for your help zapins , wish more were as helpful as you are . 


FEEL like I got a A on my math test & my chemistry test is a B+ 

LOL ~ hope I remember all this for later , I will be dosing every day so I shouldent . will write down a log for each tank . A way to keep up with how much to add each time I need to make a bottle . does anyone know abotu how long this liter of macros should last me ?


----------

