# Milwaukee Regulator Zapped My Fish!



## Rachel (Mar 21, 2003)

I have a 75G that I pump C02 with a Milwaukee regulator set up with an Eheim and Rex Grigg style inline reactor. It's set with a timer to shut off at night. It's been running fairly consistant for quite some time, without any problems. 
At least until I got home this afternoon and all of my fish were dead. Needless to say, I am none too happy about it.

It was set at about 1 drop per second, or just over and has run that way for many months. Today, when I got home from work, bubbles were flying in the bubble counter and all of my fish were dead.

I'm not too knowledgeable on the specific parts of the regulator, I just set it up as instructed and everything seemed to be thriving nicely.

I have 2 questions:
1. What could have possibly caused it to expell so much C02 so suddenly?
2. Is there anything I can do to prevent this from happening again? I lost fish that I've had for over 5 years and am afraid of replenishing for fear of it happening again. 

Please advise!


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Could be a End of Tank Dump. What's the high side pressure in the cylinder?


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## Rachel (Mar 21, 2003)

End of tank dump? Whats that?

Ok, I'm not the brightest bulb in the block...are you asking me what did I have the pressure setting on or how much C02 does it show?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

The tank pressure, the high pressure gage on the regulator, will show about 800 psi for weeks on end, with no change at all. Then when the liquid is used up and only gas is left in the cylinder the pressure starts to drop. If you let it drop too far before refilling the cylinder the bubble rate goes quite a bit higher, even though the needle valve is supposed to maintain a constant flow. Apparently the output pressure, the low pressure gage reading, goes up when the inlet pressure drops too far. That is "end of tank dump".


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## rs79 (Dec 7, 2004)

Eww. Nasty.

http://www.google.com/search?pg=q&fmt=.&q="end+of+tank+dump"&x=36&y=9

gives:

"Rex's CO2 regulators and stuffNo end of tank dump problems. Rock solid. $65 Adapters available. ... Also helps prevent end of tank dump. Has 1/8" male NPT thread on the input side and ...
www.bestaquariumregulator.com/co2.html - 16k - Cached - Similar pages"

"helps prevent" - does that mean it absolutely prevents it?


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

I have ran two cylinders empty with the Ideal valve. No damage on either tank. A needle valve alone can't prevent a EOTD. Only a two stage regulator can do that ($150-$200 just for the regulator body). A good needle valve can however minimize the amount of excess CO2 allowed into the aquarium. 

Cheap needle valves can have a increase of 4-5X normal flow when the EOTD happens. Good needle valves are more in the 2X range.


Rachel. There are two gauges on most regulators. One shows the cylinder pressure. That's the High Side Gauge. It shows the High pressure reading. The other is the Working pressure or Low side.

What was the High side showing.


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## rs79 (Dec 7, 2004)

Ah. Nice explanation. Thanks.


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## Rachel (Mar 21, 2003)

Ok, So I did some digging on here and a bit on the web and now know what End of Tank Dumping is. Honestly, I didn't even know it existed until now. 
The tank pressure gauge is just a hair under 1000 or very nearly 1000.
If I'm understanding correctly, for EOTD it should show lower, right?

I've readjusted the cylinder knob (I think that's what it's called) and have turned it way down. Is it possible that I had that up too high? I think I had it turned up pretty high, and had adjusted the flow at the bubble counter thingie. But it had been running perfectly for many weeks w/o problems. (My terminology is terrible, as I'm having a devil of a time keeping every teeny tiny piece of this contraption straight in my head!)


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## mikenas102 (Feb 8, 2006)

A full CO2 tank generally reads ~900 psi so it appears your tank is still full. Most regulators and needle valves work best when the lowside pressure is between 15-25 psi. Open the knob on the tank up all the way. Then adjust the screw in the middle of the regulator so the low side guage reads anywhere between 15-25 psi. Then use your needle valve to fine tune your bubble rate.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I use the Milwaukee regulator and I have found that it works better with 25-30 psi on the low pressure gage. You can then adjust the needle valve to get close to the bubble rate you want. Finally, use the regulator pressure knob to fine tune the bubble rate. That works well for me.


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## Rachel (Mar 21, 2003)

Ok, so it doesn't sound like EOTD, since the tank is still full.
Could the regulator be malfunctioning? 
I'm getting frustrated about the whole ordeal. I want to have a planted FISH tank, but am afraid to put fish in it for fear of having another catastrophy. 
If it's just a matter of adding a needle valve, I can do that, although spending another $100 is not at all appealing. Where does the spending end!?
I'm a blink away from yanking the whole thing out and going back to boring and ugly plastic plants.


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Pressurized CO2 can only work if you use a needle valve, and it has to be a pretty good one to regulate such a tiny flow rate. I have heard nothing but good about the valves Rex sells.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

A decent needle valve doesn't cost $100. Try more like $25 shipped in the US. 

The best valve I have is the Ideal. And it's not even close to $100.


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## Kelley (Aug 27, 2006)

I bought a Fabco NV55 needle valve from Rex to put on my Milwaukee regulator and I am so happy with it!! It fixed the problems I had with maintaining a steady bubble count and I did not experience EOTD when my gas ran out. It was approx. 20 shipped. Well worth it!


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