# Otocinclus in a NPT?



## yum (Feb 11, 2008)

I have 3 Otocinclus (Ottos) in my low tech NPT and then I read this bit on www.liveaquaria.com that made me concerned.

"This catfish should be housed in at least a 30-gallon aquarium, with high filtration along with high aeration. A planted tank with rocks and driftwood will provide plenty of hiding spaces to prevent the fish from becoming stressed. This unique fish is an ideal candidate for the planted aquarium, as it will consume algae that grows on the leaves of plants."

I thought that my 20 gallon would be more than enough space for 3 ottos but this says 30???

Also, what's the deal with the high aeration? I thought that heavily planted tanks and aeration were not a good mix as it releases the CO2 from the water? I also don't have any flow in the tank (other than simple convection currants from the heater).

Livewaquaria is associated with Dr. Foster & Smith's so I assume they know what they're talking about... or do they???


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## fishman9809 (Feb 4, 2008)

sometimes you shouldn't listen to them, listen to people that have been keeping their fish happy and healthy since the fishes' purchase, that's what I believe you should do.


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

I think the advice from Live Aquaria is for the most basic aquarium setup (fish and fake ornaments). Just think, the plants you are keeping are putting oxygen in the water and improving the water quality too. Anyway, I have otos in 20 gallon tanks with only a powerhead and quick filter attachment without problems. That is, once I manage to find healthy specimens and they acclimate.


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## rohape (Feb 7, 2005)

I also dont believe that otos are all sensitive. One of my otos has been through 3 major tank overhauls and once when I accidentally left him in the tank (it was so clouded with gunk I didn't know he was still in there) with pretty much no water. This includes the conversion to NPT. These guys are super hardy, but like to hide, so you may not see them too much.


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

Where do you buy these guys.
They look real cute.
Of course we'll have to suppliement their food supply since we don't have much algae 

Guess I'll have to check my local pet shop (one down the road)


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## helenf (Mar 24, 2008)

Sorry, I don't know much about otos, but thought I'd clarify the point about CO2 and aeration in planted tanks.

The air around us has CO2 in it. Fish produce it as they breathe, plants consume it, during the day, as they photosynthesize and they produce day and night as they breathe. So in the day time you have fish producing it and plants consuming it, and in the night time you have fish and plants producing it, since photosynthesis doesn't happen in the dark.

You also have gaseous exchange at the air-water surface. The tendancy is to equalise the amount of CO2 in the water with the amount in the air. So if there is less CO2 in the water, it will enter the water through the surface, and if there is more CO2 in the water it will leave through the surface.

Whether aeration is good or bad in a tank therefore depends on how much CO2 is in the water compared to the air. If you are injecting CO2 (DIY or pressurised or whatever) there is probably more CO2 in the water than in the air. In that case, aeration is bad because it will create more surface area for the CO2 to leave, and you lose some of the gas you are trying so hard to inject into the water for your plants. This is why people say to reduce aeration and splashing and so on in high-tech planted tanks.

However if you are not injecting CO2 into the water, there is probably less CO2 in the water compared to the air, especially during the day when the plants are consuming it. In this situation it is good to have as much aeration as possible, as it will increase the surface and let more CO2 enter the water from the air, which the plants can then use. You'll never get the water CO2 concentration higher than the air concentration, though. 

One thing I'm not sure about is exactly how much CO2 is produced by the fish and plants as they breathe. I believe that the demand for CO2 from photosynthesis will far outstrip the production of it from respiration in the average planted tank. But I don't know for sure. So maybe there is a case for increased aeration during the day and decreased aeration during the night, to allow respiration to build up a CO2 concentration that is slightly higher than the air concentration at night, so the plants can get a kick start in the morning by having more than usual CO2 available. I am personally inclined to think that aeration is good in general and can only benefit a tank, the only exception being if CO2 is being injected. After all: streams and lakes and the ocean all get plenty of aeration through ripples and waves. Our aquariums are relatively still, calm places compared to that. 

Maybe we should all get snorkels and breathe heavily into our fishtanks! That would increase the CO2 for sure!


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## fishman9809 (Feb 4, 2008)

I am planning on keeping mine in these conditions:

low tech Eclipse 12 with

2 Apistogramma Trifasciata
7 Endlers or 7 marble hatchetfish
3 otocinclus.


This will be planted with swords and stargrass, vallisneria, and frogbit


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## Revernance (Aug 20, 2007)

You have to keep in mind that the information given by life aquarium and tons of other companies do not keep Natural Planted Tanks in mind. 

The problem with having too many ottos in a tank is that lack of algae will starve them. I have 3 little ones in my 10 gallon for about 2 months now. The tank is never completely free of algae so I never have to worry about them starving.


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## fishman9809 (Feb 4, 2008)

sorry to change topics, but I just have a quick question, could I actually keep marble hatchetfish in that size tank with the fish I mentioned before? Would you recommend me getting endler's instead?


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## tkos (Oct 30, 2006)

20 gallon for a dchool of hatchet fish might be a bit on the small side. Endler's would be much better.


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## fishman9809 (Feb 4, 2008)

thanks man, they are so colorful. Where do you all buy your otos? I want to buy zebra otos, but I cannot find a buying location.


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## yum (Feb 11, 2008)

I got mine from a LFS that had them in their tanks for over 2 weeks. I made sure to ask and observe them as I've read they can be a touch delicate.

They seem to be incredibly maintenance free thus far. And as someone mentioned, they are quite shy even in my over grown jungle of a tank. I can usually spot them hanging out on the back of the tank or hidden amongst the foliage. Whenever I catch one on the front of the glass, they quickly dart away when I approach.

I don't seem to have a lot of algae in my tank, aside from hair algae, which they don't seem to touch at all. I can see them scouring the leaves and the substrate for food. I have tried hikari algae wafers a few times and each time, it looks untouched. More snail food then anything.  So, I don't know what they're eating but they poop so they are eating something.

So back to your question, I'd think a good LFS would be where you'd get some of these wonderful critters; this way you could see how well they acclimated and observe them.


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## ItsDubC (Jan 12, 2008)

I think part of the reason why LiveAquaria suggests keeping otos in a 30gal is because as they've noted further along in the paragraph, otos like to be kept in groups. Also, the suggestion might be a generalization of the Loricariidae family, of which many species tend to get fairly large.


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## yum (Feb 11, 2008)

That is a good point. I got 3 so they will feel comfortable but it seems that 2 are paired off and always together, while the 3rd is alone all the time.

Should I get a 4th? Is that too much for a 20 gallon long?


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## fishman9809 (Feb 4, 2008)

really? I heard otos mate in 3's.....2 on top and 1 on bottom in a "T" formation.


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