# Generic Sub pump as 2213's inflow mouth



## Ahura-sama (Sep 5, 2008)

Like title. I plan to have a Generic submersed pump as the inflow instead of Eheim's standard stick. My concern is that would the pump interfere w/ the filtration??

Pic of pump and its guard/filter.









Thanks


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

Hmmm...I would wonder if there would be issues with the two motors (the sub and the canister) not being matched. ie, if the sub flows less than the canister, the canister motor may end up being "choked" and have to work over time to draw the water thru. On the other hand, if the sub is more powerful, the canister may cavitate from having an excess of water pushed past the impeller blades. Just a thought... But I'd reckon you'd want them to both be pretty evenly matched and take into account concessions for head height, gravity (siphon) etc...

Either way, make sure you post the results!!


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## Ahura-sama (Sep 5, 2008)

Ah well, I think it's an abandon ship stage now.

My reason for such a set-up was to alleviate the eheim's pump water-pulling so that it could push more. It was struggling rrly bad pushing water through w/ my DIY inline reactor so I though maybe the sub pump would help.


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

I wouldn't write your idea off entirely... I just thought there might be a few issues to address. Give it a go if you want, nothing wrong with experimenting!  But as I say, make sure you post the results, so we can all learn someting new 

Just curious. How long is the reactor and how many bio-balls (if any) do you have in it? There could just be alot of back pressure on the filter, and modifying the reactor might be just the fix you need...


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## Ahura-sama (Sep 5, 2008)

A foot long of clear pvc 1 1/2". W/ the caps and the 90 degree turn, it is close to 20" end-to-end; 10 bio balls inside; 3/8 npt intake and out.

I decided on an alternative solution. Let the pump at the end so it could pull.

















I didnt grasp how big 1 1/2 at a foot long was until firing it up for the first time. That and w/ the twist n' turn, it was straining on the eheim's pump; at least to my feeling.


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

OK, a couple things. Yeah, that thing looks waaaaay too long (although, I really am no expert in these things)... Also, I think you have your canister output going into the wrong end of the reactor. The canister should flow into the top, along with the CO2, this is what keeps the CO2 suspended in the water so it can dissolve properly, with the balls helping to churn it all up. Speaking of bio balls, you could probably get away with quite a few less of those.


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## Ahura-sama (Sep 5, 2008)

Wouldnt the bubbles go w/ the flow and exit instead of trap in the chamber??
Originally that was my though, but then that above so I went w/ the current. I'll try the original and crank up the bubble to check.


Im doing like 1-3 bubbles a sec and apparently that set up dissolve them quite well. No output micro bubble as far as I know.

Cant shorten it. Glue has been long cured.


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

Bubbles naturally float up. So, by having them come in at the bottom, you risk the CO2 being pushed straight thru the tube and out the top. The thing you have going for you is the massive amount of balls stemming the flow and keeping the bubbles in place. Side effect of that is that the filter motor is being overloaded, trying to push the water past the balls.

All you really need to do is stand the thing up the other way (except that might kink the "out" hose a little, but you could work around that), then the bubbles will always float up, against the flow of the water. If you can work out a way to open the reactor, you could toss half those balls, as well, and take the load off your pump (I'd just cut the reactor with a hacksaw, leave two or three balls in there and add new fittings to the cut end).


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## Ahura-sama (Sep 5, 2008)

I wonder if a straight path into the chamber instead of the elbow improve my dissolution. Get the bubble to rise and actually trapped in the chamber instead of the 90 part.

Usually up to how many bubble per sec for an inline set-up before it cant keep up anymore??
Mine only get up to 1-1.5 per sec before spitting bubbles out the wazoo.


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

It might help with your flow, but I still think you should concetrate on reducing the overall restriction thru the unit. And give it a go with the water flow/CO2 coming in at the top. You will find the bubbles acting against the water flow, rather than going with it, will give much better dissolution... 

And there will be no bubbles spitting out the "wazoo" either


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## Ahura-sama (Sep 5, 2008)

Im kind of confused. Arey ou saying I should flip the orientation so that the twist part is up and the single barb is down W/ inflow and co2 top while outflow bottom??


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

Yep, exactly. Basically you want the gas to completely dissolve into the water, before the water gets to the tank... So, inflow (from canister) comes in at the top, along with the CO2. The water then travels downward, carrying the _dissolved_ CO2, out the bottom and up toward the tank. As I said before, the bubbles of CO2 will remain trapped at the top and will mix with the incoming water, which is also churned up by the bio-balls. You will find that a pocket of gas will form at the top, but this will disappear after your CO2 is turned off at night and the remaining gas becomes absorbed into the water.

Have a google around, I reckon you'll find a bunch of pics of reactors set up like this...


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## Ahura-sama (Sep 5, 2008)

That's a sound set-up; however, wouldnt high bubble push backward into the Eheim??

I did a different set-up: same orientation as in the picture but top is inflow and bot is outflow. The logic was that bubbles rise and so I though if I crank it up then they would rise into the chamber (against the flow) and get trapped in there.
it failed lol

I'll do your set-up


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

There _might_ be a little back pressure on your canister from the CO2, but compared to what you have now, it would be negligible. Have a go with it oriented the way I suggested (just flip it over - but make sure there are no kinks), but seriously consider buying new end-cap components, when you can, and cut that thing down. Looking at it, I reckon half/two thirds of the length you have now would be fine...and ditch some of those balls while you are at it.

Let us know how you go!


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## Ahura-sama (Sep 5, 2008)

Yeah, that set-up is much better.

Of course some bubbles backtrack if I crank the rate up.

Well, now inside the chamber a pocket of co2 is formed whenever co2 is on. Is that ideal??
Even at 1-2 rate. The pocket grows as rate increases.


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

Yeah, that pocket seems normal to me. If you read my posts in the "CO2 Reactors" thread, you'll see that I plan to shut my CO2 off a little earlier to conserve gas and just allow the pocket to dissolve until the lights go out. That will take a little experimenting, I think.

Glad it working for you! Is the filter still struggling with the flow??


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## Ahura-sama (Sep 5, 2008)

Well, the struggle was more of my thing.
I can turn the pump on to give it a boost.


What's the highest bps rate you can increase w/ an inline (inline in general) like this before it gives in??

I can push it to like 3-4 a sec, is that too much or too low??
I usually leave it at 1-2, again too low or adequate??


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

I have no idea how much load it would take. Maybe experiment with that... But I would say, you should prob just pump as much gas as your tank requires, don't worry too much about maxing the reactor out. 

How big is your tank?


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## Ahura-sama (Sep 5, 2008)

37gal - 30 12 23


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## ghengis (Jun 11, 2008)

Do you have a drop checker? That would tell you what your ideal bubble rate is, whether it be 1bps or 10... From what I understand, ones persons 37gal might require more or less CO2 than anothers, depending on various factors like planting density, livestock levels (fish exhale CO2 as well) etc....


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## Ahura-sama (Sep 5, 2008)

Getting one
No livestock yet, tank's in set-in stage

Waiting on the rest of my damn plant list-cryps and more grasses.


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