# Petsmart $1.00 fish sale Nov. 5 -7



## Ekrindul

Looks like Petsmart is having another $1 sale this weekend, Friday thru Sunday. As far as I can tell, however, the ad doesn't tell us which fish are included. 

They currently have guppies, mollies and platies on sale for 2/$3.00 good until I think the end of Nov. So for $3, you can have a tank full of livebearers in a month.


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## fishyjoe24

BOO and YAY! boo-- more or likely will bring in ich on a fish or some illness. yay because fish well be cheap.. that would be awesome if they would put the cory on sale for $1.00 each and I would be dreaming if they put the german blue rams on sale for $1.00 they need to get different types of rams too. bolivians, and the golds.... but still bet they would get sick. they are bringing in new fish they are not use to having.


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## funkman262

I bought 10 cardinals the last time they had the $1 sale and they didn't show any signs of disease. I only lost one since then and that was because he jumped out of the tank .


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## Ekrindul

I guess I've been lucky as I've never seen ich in my tanks. I bought 11 glowlight tetras during the last sale and they're all fat and happy.


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## fishyjoe24

well my 20's are setup just need to get a heater and filter for the bottom 20, and get to work on the bottom 20. got lids for free thanks to fred(metrofish) metrofishofdallas.com I did have to replace the bulbs though.  7.97 a bulb for a 18 inch t8 bulb. BOO home depot. I might get some fish this weekend. do have a light question t8 15w bulbs over a 20g h gives enough light for anewbuis, java ferns, and crypts right?


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## digital_gods

@Joey. Yes, that will give you low light. You will be able to have your moss, java ferns, crypts, anubis. Don't go too crazy with the fish sales. Make sure you give your tanks enough time to cycle and keep dosing with Stability. Nothing is worse than finding floaters. 

@Everyone: Back on subject now, does anyone know what fish will be on sale at Petsmart?


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## fishyjoe24

you sure this chart says I won't even have low light? and that I would need 2 t8 bulbs just to have low light.










but back on subject...... I'm not getting fish I already have enough fish that I took out of one of the 55g. I thought danios where expensive. there not - 99 cents and 1.49 for long fins. I got 10 so they can help cycle each 20 gallon.

also I guess I need to put tinfoil in these lights to help put down more light in the tank, and does 5,000k still work for are plants?


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## Ekrindul

Joey, that chart shows 2 T8 bulbs sitting on top of the tank, 12 inches from the substrate, is medium light.

Unless you plan to grow plants underneath the tank with it bare bottom, the light should be fine for those plants.

Also, charts like this are not etched in stone. They are a very limited study of a few lights generally.


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## funkman262

Fishyjoe, you should probably start a new thread for questions that are unrelated to the OP.

I'm really hoping it's the $1 tetra sale again so I can get another 10 or so cardinals for my tank.


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## Ekrindul

funkman262 said:


> Fishyjoe, you should probably start a new thread for questions that are unrelated to the OP.
> 
> I'm really hoping it's the $1 tetra sale again so I can get another 10 or so cardinals for my tank.


Yeah, that would be nice. I really want some more cherry barbs though, too.


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## Ekrindul

digital_gods said:


> @Everyone: Back on subject now, does anyone know what fish will be on sale at Petsmart?


Most barbs, long fin danio, rasboras. They also had a pleco for sale but I don't know which type it was. It wasn't bristle nose, but that's all I can say.


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## AquaCamp

Notice if they had Otocinclus for $1 each? THey haven't run that sale in a while and need some for my new tank.


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## digital_gods

@AquaCamp: According to the flyer, GoldFish were included in the sale. Just letting you know since your girlfriend like Gold Fish.


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## Ekrindul

AquaCamp said:


> Notice if they had Otocinclus for $1 each? THey haven't run that sale in a while and need some for my new tank.


I didn't see them on sale, but I don't think I saw them at all actually. I asked the girl if all stores had the same fish on sale but she didn't know.


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## cbwmn

AquaCamp said:


> Notice if they had Otocinclus for $1 each? THey haven't run that sale in a while and need some for my new tank.


The local PetSmart's don't have Oto's or SAE at all.
All they have are common Pleco's & Chinese Algae eaters.
El Paso is truly the armpit of Texas.
Charles


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## Ekrindul

cbwmn said:


> The local PetSmart's don't have Oto's or SAE at all.
> All they have are common Pleco's & Chinese Algae eaters.
> El Paso is truly the armpit of Texas.
> Charles


The ones here have no shortage of the CAE, who knows why. Not sure why anyone would want one. SAE locally are only found in privately owned shops. Petsmart for some reason can't do the intelligent thing and just sell Bristle Nose Plecos. They have to sell the giant ones. And they starve the ottos, so you're lucky your store doesn't carry them, or the ottos are anyway. It's like Petsmart have a secret agenda to do the worst thing possible to dissuade people from staying in the hobby.

I feel like I'm rescuing the fish when I shop there, too. Never seen so many dead fish in one place before. How long does it take to scoop out a dead fish? Like 5 seconds? You should never see a dead fish in a commercial store like that. It's really sad. Especially since no one seems to be asking why it's happening and resolving it.

The girl helping me kept saying "corporate wants it this way" so you knew she hated the whole setup: too many fish in each tank, incompatible fish together, messy as hell, etc. I'd love to just walk that tank aisle one time with some corporate decision maker with a circle of fishkeeping customers observing.

The best thing to do would be something I've considered seriously lately: to stop shopping at Petsmart completely. And to dissuade others to do the same.


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## digital_gods

You can't save the fish but you can save the fish keepers. I've stepped in few times and helped the other customers find the right products they need for their tanks and how to set them up with available Petsmart products. I don't think the employees are trained well enough to ask the right questions. Matter of fact, I'm not even sure they even train the employees on advance pets needs other than to push products.


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## AquaCamp

Too bad that the El Paso Petsmart doesn't have Otos. I have bought them for $1 each from the North Arlington store with about a 75% survival rate. So I figure I get them for $1.33 each which is a good deal in my book.

I will go by tonight or tomorrow and report back if they have any.

Thanks,

Ric


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## fishyjoe24

the problem with petsmart is just about any one can get a job there. so do you have a fish tank, yes I have a 5 gallon with a gold fish in cool you are hired. then the employee has to guess what is right or wrong.. I remember I was at the allen petsmart and the manger didn't know anything about fish and I had to help him.. I think for petsmart to get better. corpate needs to train it's people more.. 

I've had to help a lot of people , petsmart is so big it will hire any one. one person gets fired 30 mins later some one else is hired taking the placed of the person who got fired. where as to some of the good LFS and mom pops shops might have a hirer price but no there stuff.


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## Ekrindul

fishyjoe24 said:


> the problem with petsmart is just about any one can get a job there. so do you have a fish tank, yes I have a 5 gallon with a gold fish in cool you are hired. then the employee has to guess what is right or wrong.. I remember I was at the allen petsmart and the manger didn't know anything about fish and I had to help him.. I think for petsmart to get better. corpate needs to train it's people more..
> 
> I've had to help a lot of people , petsmart is so big it will hire any one. one person gets fired 30 mins later some one else is hired taking the placed of the person who got fired. where as to some of the good LFS and mom pops shops might have a hirer price but no there stuff.


The problem isn't on the employee level. It's a corporation, and I wouldn't ever expect a corporation to be able to manage a pet store with any sort of integrity over a long period of time. There's just isn't the oversight in place to police them into having integrity, like say the DOT or OSHA oversight of the transportation industry. I've heard numerous horror stories of people working at Petsmart who were knowledgeable but they still had to follow policy, even when it wasn't in the best interest of the animals.


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## Michael

Despite my better judgement, I went by the Petsmart on Greenville Ave. in Dallas this afternoon. The fish looked pretty clean, with no visbile casualties. There were 7 or 8 otocinclus, and they were plump! So I bought 5. I may regret it, and I certainly felt dirty afterward.

They were $1.98 each.


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## Ekrindul

Just be sure to give them some vegetable matter right away to be sure they're well fed. Either romaine lettuce, zucchini or a brussel sprout. Sprouts are the best IMO. Last longer, less messy.

The plumpness could be bloating due to bad diet. The veggie matter will help with that if that is the case.


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## fishyjoe24

ottos will eat anything, mine at the beef heart I was giving the angels. I feel like going to petsmart just to see what they have on sale.


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## Ekrindul

fishyjoe24 said:


> ottos will eat anything, mine at the beef heart I was giving the angels. I feel like going to petsmart just to see what they have on sale.


They are herbivores. They might eat beef heart, but it isn't good for them. It's also not a good sign when a fish eats a food they aren't adapted to eat.


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## fishyjoe24

well good think they wheren't to expensive. they where a dollar at petco got them almost 2 months ago.. need to set up my 55g. whos tirming there tank.


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## Michael

Ekrindul said:


> Just be sure to give them some vegetable matter right away to be sure they're well fed. Either romaine lettuce, zucchini or a brussel sprout. Sprouts are the best IMO. Last longer, less messy.
> 
> The plumpness could be bloating due to bad diet. The veggie matter will help with that if that is the case.


This may shock people, but I regularly harvest algae from my ponds to feed to my shrimp and an oto from a previous purchase. I've also tried blanched spinach and other dark greens, but they like the algae better. I can put a piece the size of playing card in the tank, and it will be complete gone by the next morning.


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## Ekrindul

I've considered placing rocks in a jar filled with tank water outside in the sun to grow algae. People have been doing this for years. Not that unusual. I've tried spinach but my fish never went for it.


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## Michael

I have some rocks with algae on them in the ponds for that purpose, but my tanks are so densely planted that I can't find room for them, LOL.


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## Ekrindul

Yeah, I know that problem. My 29 gallon is an absolute jungle right now. I think there's almost 20 species crammed in. Don't know what to do with it. Think I'll just tell people it's a grow out tank.

The 55 is full again too as I just planted the left side with a bunch of Rotala rotundafolia and Limnophila aromatica.


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## Martin Schellinck

I bought a good # of ottos from the Petsmart on Greenville, they did much better than the ones I picked up from FG the previous week. I think I lost about 1 in 10 from Petsmart. I'm actually pretty happy with my purchases from Petsmart, I think drip acclimating the fish is very important though.


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## Michael

Petsmart Oto Report:

The largest of the five was dead this morning. The others seem to be doing well, eating pond algae and blanched spinach, swimming and schooling in the filter outflow.

I drip acclimate all my fish, usually taking 2 to 3 hours. In this case I took the extra precaution of netting the otos out of the Petsmart swill, and rinsing them with my tank water before putting them in the tank.

When I first brought these fish home I suspected that they were a different species from the single oto I already had. The Petsmarters were much lighter in color. But now that they have been in my tank a few days, they are much darker and more similar to the first fish. Maybe it has something to do with the bright yellow clown puke gravel and the red plastic plant in the tank they were kept in at the fish gulag.

Martin, how are yours doing?


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## Ekrindul

Most fish you pick up from a pet store will have different coloring in the store versus how they will look several days after being in a tank with cleaner water, lots of coverage and less foot traffic. 

I'm down to one otto, who is very active, but then so were the others. I know they get plenty to eat, but they still seem to die without notice. So I'm going to stop keeping them. There are simply better alternatives that seem more suited to captivity: shrimps, snails, plecos, SAEs.


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## ObiQuiet

FWIW, two of my three PetSmart Otos are doing fine 1 year later.

I think it's like the stock market -- past performance (good or bad) is no guarantee of future performance (good or bad), though you can make broad generalizations.


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## Michael

Petsmart otos: another one bites the substrate. All total I have purchased 8 otos, 3 from Boutique Pets before they announced their closing, and 5 from Petsmart. I have 4 survivors.

This bring to mind an issue on which I should start a new thread--is it ethical to buy wild-caught fish? Especially species that are harvested with paralytic agents in an unsustainable fashion, like otos? Do any LFS distinguish between wild caught and captive bred fish? Can they even tell you which is which if you ask?


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## niko

Or we can also discuss "Is it ethical to buy fish that have been imported in a hurry, rebagged the same day and sold to you the next?"

That's what virutally every store does.

Do not get me wrong - I'm not bashing the stores. Actually I'm bashing most hobbyists' stinginess. Unless prices of fish increase about 5-10 times there is no way out of abusing fish just to offer them for $1 - $2 a piece.

Just the other day I saw a new thread here for someone looking for Java Fern. "Wanted Java Fern, preferably cheap." Made me mad. You understand my attitude now maybe.

--Nikolay


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## Michael

Nikolay, I understand completely and agree. Stinginess was part of my motivation in buying the Petsmart otos, and I regret it. The other part was to see if there was any difference in survival rate between otos from the two different sources. Of course I don't have a big enough statistical sample to say for certain.

Your reply distnguishes between the abuse captive-raised fish can suffer during importation and shipping, and my concern for the damage to wild populations caused by collecting. You know far more than I do about this subject, please tell me more.

--Michael


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## niko

Michael,

I blame our collective mentality. Both aquatic plant and fish only people.

Keep in mind I'm the person that started this thread:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...s/44053-tiny-super-efficient-co2-reactor.html

The thread has 100K views at this moment. It's all about how to save a few dollars. My god! Since I wrote that epic display of idiocy I saw how the collective stinginess affects this hobby in a VERY negative way.

Most of us see more value in an $5 hamburger than a tiny and beautiful Indostomus paradoxus. When you look at this fish through a photographic macro lens you see that it has eyelids that it closes and opens much like a crocodile. But on the other hand a hamburger has pickles and ketchup...



















When importing rare fish I learned one thing - *there are no rare fish*! There are only fish that are imported rarely because the sellers do not believe they can sell them quick and make a profit. In the last 2 years we imported more than 250 species of rare fish. Many of them do not even have pictures on Google. The prices were crazy low. There is only the mentality of all of us to blame. Nothing else.

Prices of rare fish and invertebrates in Germany for examply are way higher than the US. A Yellow Rabbit snail that we sold for about $5 goes for $30 in Germany. A gobby (that eats BBA!) sells here for $12, in Germany the wholesale price is $11. I have more examples. They all speak bad about our mentality.

Wild caught vs. tank bred. Most tank bred fish come from Asia. Asian exporters are extremely mercantile. Meaning that profit is the king. An importer's mentality is not much better. Example - an importer can request how the animals are packaged and the Asian exporter will do everything as requested. But usually that means more boxes, more weight, more money for shipping. The usual US importer is a "bubba" type of guy. If someone thinks bubba cares about the fish I have nothing to say. Wild caught fish MOST LIKELY harm the wild population. If you think that the answer is to buy tank bred fish then you are voting in favour of pet fish concentration camps. Anything goes - chemicals, cramming, forced fast growth, shipping in insane conditions.

I have said it before - one day we got 200 Kuhli loaches packed in about 3 quarts of water. The "water" was brown mush with snake like bodies wriggling in it - both live and dead being moved around. After that experience we started to request certain way of packaging. The exporters had only one thing to say - "Absolutely! But it will cost more." What would you answer to that? We requested certain number of fish per bag and activated carbon. There was no problem. If you are willing to pay. Bubba is not. Nor is his customer 

This is the reality of this trade. It puts a Rasbora espei on our tanks for only $2.00. For our enjoyment.










Wild populations: Here's a good idea - get Sulawesi Rabbit Snails, breed them, and sell them. You will do much more good for these snails in the 3 Sulawesi lakes where they come from. The Germans have monopolized the lakes. I do not know what their practices are. Maybe they exercise planned, SAP-like, management of the snail population. Maybe they just pick the snails with perfect shells and discard the rest by the road.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAP_AG

And here is my punch line:
If we really care about the animals we call "pets" we need to be truly responsible and appreciative for them. Among other things we could "vote" with our wallets for better live stock and better practices. That basically means knowing the people you deal with and their practices. Unfortunatelly what we see on aquarium forums does not suport real openness. What can one do to change that? What can we all do?

--Nikolay


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## Michael

Nikolay, thank you for a very thoughtful reply.

My own limited knowledge of wild-caught vs. captive-bred, domestic vs. imported animals comes from when I was breeding parrots 15 years ago. One of the reasons I stopped doing it is that I had such a hard time finding buyers responsible enough to make me comfortable selling a bird to them. And I wasn't even trying to break even, much less make a profit!

There was some success in aviculture with educating the pet buyer about the superiority of captive-raised parrots. But the economics did not work in favor of that effort until CITES and USA importation policies virtually cut off the supply of cheap, wild-caught birds. Some of my own birds were exported to large breeding facilities in the Philippines. I do not know if these were intended to supply the pet trade, or simply the project of a wealthy aviculturist.

I enjoy discussions of ethical issues for their own sake, but I am always eager to find a way to translate the discussion into action. In addition to your own business, can you suggest any local LFS that have better practices in handling fish, wild-caught or tank bred? I understand that you may not wish to do so on a public forum; please feel free to send me a private message.

Also, I have a link to the Invertz Factory stocklist, but it has not been updated for a very long time. Is there a new link I should use?

Thank you,
Michael


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## ObiQuiet

niko said:


> I blame our collective mentality [...] Most of us see more value in an $5 hamburger than a tiny and beautiful Indostomus paradoxus.


Well said! :clap2:


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## neilshieh

ObiQuiet said:


> Well said! :clap2:


Most... not all... i frequently skip that overpriced snack from the vending machine after my PE class thinking, the money spent on that may as well be spent on an otto or plant. Only on days of great excitement do i let myself enjoy myself without linking something back to my fish. It is true however, whenever i attend something and later find out it costed money, i regret thinking what that money could have bought for my fish. but then again, my parents wouldn't give me the money used to pay for something else to spend on my hobby. well said niko. somethings are a matter of how thick your wallet is and how much you actually care. For all you care, a betta you bought could have been bred in empty beer bottles in some asian country and sent over to the US in bags not suitable to hold your spare change. Supporting LFS may not be spot clean as supporting a big pet chain store. After all they're only buying in bulk from the same wholesalers that supply to Petsmarts, and selling them to you at a different location for often much higher prices. So in reality you're supporting LFS to prevent big chain stores from taking monopoly of the market, otherwise you buy from other aquarists. And even if you buy from aquarists, they may or may not be doing it for profit solely. There is a fine line between an aquarist breeding and growing things for money and an aquarist selling off extra stock.


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## neilshieh

you know what pisses me off? this does


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## fishyjoe24

most people only see the money profit, and don't think about the animal. they only want to push produced. bring in and sell bring in and sell bring in and sell.... I even remember when I was getting discus from a asia importer who was also a breeder. on avg. discus are sold for $10.00 a inch I could go to him with $100.00 in my pocket and get 6 3 inch discus (which would be 30 each) because it seemed like he would just want to push the fish out the door.. if I was " the bubba" well awesome I got more discus, that are bigger, then what I paided for and more money..

but I got a problem with that, I see it at petco,petsmart, etc etc even the well know BIG LFS..

I use to here this all the time, but not any more. " what size tank will these fish be going in, how long has your tank been setup and running, does it have a filter, does it have a heater, what are the parameters test readings? 

at first when I was a lot younger I was like DUH YEAH I have one, why are these people asking me these questions... but know I know the importance of those questions I see people all the time in pet stores my fish is dead I don't know why. well did you do this or that. " what's de-chlorinate r, what's a heaters. seriously? I think the problem is is a lot of hobbyist are not working in the stores no more, or they don't ask the important questions any more.


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## neilshieh

fishyjoe24 said:


> most people only see the money profit, and don't think about the animal. they only want to push produced. bring in and sell bring in and sell bring in and sell.... I even remember when I was getting discus from a asia importer who was also a breeder. on avg. discus are sold for $10.00 a inch I could go to him with $100.00 in my pocket and get 6 3 inch discus (which would be 30 each) because it seemed like he would just want to push the fish out the door.. if I was " the bubba" well awesome I got more discus, that are bigger, then what I paided for and more money..
> 
> but I got a problem with that, I see it at petco,petsmart, etc etc even the well know BIG LFS..
> 
> I use to here this all the time, but not any more. " what size tank will these fish be going in, how long has your tank been setup and running, does it have a filter, does it have a heater.
> 
> at first when I was a lot younger I was like DUH YEAH I have one, but know I know the inportance of those questions I see people all the time in pet stores my fish is dead I don't know why. well did you do this or that. " what's dechlorinator, what's a heaters. seriously? I think the problem is is a lot of hobiest are not working in the stores no more, or they don't ask the inportant questions any more.


true... they used to always ask me the tank specs even at petsmart! now they're like you want the fish, okay just gtfo so i can laze around.


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## Martin Schellinck

In my 60p, I haven't lost any. In my mini-L, I've lost 2 since the purchase, but that was due to a water quality issue that was also killing some of my cherries. Overall, I've been very happy with the fish at the Greenville store.



Michael said:


> Petsmart Oto Report:
> 
> The largest of the five was dead this morning. The others seem to be doing well, eating pond algae and blanched spinach, swimming and schooling in the filter outflow.
> 
> I drip acclimate all my fish, usually taking 2 to 3 hours. In this case I took the extra precaution of netting the otos out of the Petsmart swill, and rinsing them with my tank water before putting them in the tank.
> 
> When I first brought these fish home I suspected that they were a different species from the single oto I already had. The Petsmarters were much lighter in color. But now that they have been in my tank a few days, they are much darker and more similar to the first fish. Maybe it has something to do with the bright yellow clown puke gravel and the red plastic plant in the tank they were kept in at the fish gulag.
> 
> Martin, how are yours doing?


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## bartoli

niko said:


> Most of us see more value in an $5 hamburger than a tiny and beautiful Indostomus paradoxus.


May be that is because much of what went on before a fish show up in a retail outlet were seldom discussed. The less we know about the trade, the less to be concerned about. When fish just "magically" show up in retail stores, price shopping becomes the norm.

But when people are aware of the big players upstream and know of their common practices, both the good and the bad, they will have something to chew on other than prices.

Nikolay, would you mind telling us what you know about the fish trade? The more detailed and specific the better.

How about having a forum here discussing the fish trade?


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## Michael

Perhaps we should start a new thread in the "Fish for the planted aquarium" forum that could be an ongoing place to discuss practices and ethics in the live fish trade? I will do so, and we will see if the discussion continues.

--Michael


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## Newt

I'm not a big fan of either Petsmart or Petco but I would say (my) Petsmart has far better/healthy fish than (my) Petco; especially in the livebearer fishes. I've purchased very few fish from either but have never had an issue as I look closely as to what I might buy and its always smart to quarantine.


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## fishyjoe24

petsmart is having a sale this weekend 19-21 for thanksgiving.


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## Ceiji

petsmart has a 5$ off coupon going on till 11/28. You can get $5 off on any purchase $5 or above. They also have low prices on many tropical fishes. Yesterday in my store, all corys were down to 1.99 from 3.99. I bought 4 of them for 2.99 with the coupon 

btw.. you need to have a petsperk card to apply the coupon.. you can get the coupon in fatwallet.com. search for petsmart in the site.


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