# El Natural Planted Tank and Discus



## SirLancaster (Feb 21, 2010)

Hello.

I have an El Natural planted tank with substrate made of a thin layer of top soil with crushed shells topped with a thick layer of seachem fluorite. I initially dosed weekly for 4 weeks with KH Booster (CaCO3) due to low KH. My KH is now pretty stable at 4 degrees, which I understand equates to 71.6ppm, which is in the recommended range for planted aquarium. My pH seems stable at 8.0. I'm also dosing Seachem Flourish Excel (glut) daily. The positive effect on plants is notorius.

Now my question. I would like to add Discus. I'm starting to research about it, but I'm confused with KH, water hardness, pH and related stuff. I find it contradictory that Discus are soft water fish and that I should keep my KH at around 80ppm and at the same time that Discus are OK for planted tanks. Also, wonder if my pH of 8.0 will be a problem for the Discuss.

I currently have a pair of Koi Angels, assorted tetras, some Yoyo loaches.

Thanks,

SirLancaster


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Well, since no one else has replied, I'll toss out a few ideas.

KH has little if any effect on fish except as it affects pH, and even then . . . . Soft water fish require low GH but they don't care a whit about KH. When we talk about hard/soft water, we usually are referring to GH.

Soft water tends to be neutral to acid; hard water tends to be neutral to alkaline.

Unless one wants to breed Discus, the pH/hardness are not very important. If one does want to breed them, most experts say soft, acid water is a prerequisite, as is a tank of their own. 

You don't say how large your tank is, but the consensus seems to be that 50 gallons is the minimum sized tank required for a pair of discus. 

Discus need high temperatures, perhaps 85 degrees. Not all plants do well at such high temperatures, so you should do some research to find those that do before you acquire any.

Good luck!

Bill


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## SirLancaster (Feb 21, 2010)

Bill, thanks for replying.

My tank is 50 gal. Temp is in the 84-85 F range (29 C).

Will discus be compatible with Koi Angels?

So far I had only tested KH and pH, but today I got a 6 in 1 strip that includes GH. I know they are not that accurate, actually the KH tested 120, when I have been getting 4dKH (72ppm). I think that I will trust my liquid test (Red Sea Fish pHarm from Israel -- iso-propanol).

GH tested 150ppm (Hard). I have been trying to get a liquid test kit for GH, with no luck here in Panama (Central America). Assuming I have GH around 150ppm, do you think that will be detrimental for either the Discus or majority of plants (anubias nanas, amazon swords, java fern, lily from local pond).

Thanks!


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Hi!

The GH of your water is fine for almost all plants. As I said, the high temperature is of greater concern.

Discus and Angels should get along just fine, unless one or the other is breeding, then either will become quite aggressive toward other fish.

IMO, the GH of your water is not too high for discus. You might try doing a search on DISCUS "HARD WATER".

Bill


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## WhiteDevil (May 7, 2009)

Angels are more aggressive then discus, I would NOT advise housing them together.
Discus do need warmer water, mine is at 84 in my 210g planted discus tank.
Discus need more then two in a community setting, you will need a minimum of 6 for them to not be hiding ALL the time.

Discus are big but they do not move around much at all, they tend to just suspend for the most part the majority of the day. I enjoy mine alot but am not replacing any that die, if I get an offer on them that is good, bye bye. Discus NEED lots of clean water, I do a 50% pwc on mine every 3 days(about 100g). I have farm raised, privately bred and wild discus and each and every single one didnt come around until the Ph fell below 6.6. I have 3 pairs in the tank that put down eggs like clockwork every 8 days.

Basically you need to ditch those test strips, they are notorious for being on average 100ppm off. Secondly, if YOU wont drink the water, discus shouldnt be in it, thats pretty much the rule of thumb when it comes to water quality.
Here is mine this pic was taken in january of 2011, something is up with tinypic and I cant login to get my recent pics of it, difference is some of the plants are gone now, well most.


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## joshvito (Apr 6, 2009)

+1 for the clean water; The more often and larger the water change the better;
I have been keeping Discus in hard water for years, they flourish and spawn; The eggs usually don't make it in the harder water, but if you are not attempting to breed, the fish are happy. I also keep the temp between 78 and 80 F and the fish do well, and the range of plant species available is greater also;

I think the key is clean water with lots of biological filtration. Your filter should hold the equivalent of 10% of the tank volume in biological media.


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## Dielectric (Oct 7, 2008)

discus and angels do fine together. i have 2 pairs of breeding angels with a school of 7 discus in a 125 soil tank. everyone is peachy keen.


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