# Getting a bit of algae - need advice



## CatG (Apr 10, 2010)

Hello,
I have a 75 gal tank that I just set up 4 days ago. I have several plants in it, but they are very young and very small. (I think the largest is about 2" tall and very scrawny.) I have added ferts and CO2, and have about 2 wpg for light. (4x40watt T12's) I also have a handful of MTS in there. Temp is about 76 degrees.

I noticed yesterday that I have some dark green algae forming on pieces of gravel here and there. Some of it is still just a flat coating, while a couple of the pieces have fuzz extending from the surface. I got this gravel used (it's big and ugly, but it was free) and I don't know if it was already on the rocks, or if it is growing because of the conditions in my tank. I was told that the conditions in my tank were just asking for algae problems, but until I can buy some more mature plants, or until these mature, I am stuck. In the meantime, what can I do about the algae before it gets out of hand? The snails are busy at work eating stuff, but I may not have enough of them in there. Should I get more snails, or should I pick up a couple of Siamese Algae Eaters? I'm a bit worried about getting the algae eaters because I am not sure there is enough algae in there right now for them to eat. The info I read said you can supplement with algae wafers, but it said those can actually cause algae problems.

What should I do?
Thanks,
Cat


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi CatG,

A couple of questions, what is your photoperiod (how long are the lights on per day)? Can you be more specific as to which type of algae you have, here is where I go to identify most different algae types. I look forward to your reponses.


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## CatG (Apr 10, 2010)

Thanks for the response! I just typed up an answer, but got an "unable to display the page" message after I submitted it. 

Let's try this again:

I think this may be blue green algae. Not 100% sure though. I can take a pic and post it if that will help (and if I can figure out how).
Photoperiod has been about 16 hours - I didn't realize it was that long until I just counted it up. I will reduce that if it will help.

CO2 levels: 10 ppm
Nitrates: don't have a test kit for this, but can get one
Nitrite: <0.3 mg/l
PH: 7
GH: 11
KH: 3
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Temp: ~73 deg.

There are no fish in the tank, if that makes a difference. I was going to wait until the plants grew in.

The website you listed suggested a blackout and water change, plus removal of CO2. I'm a bit worried about that because my plants were half dead when I finally got around to planting them. Most of them still look pretty pathetic and iffy on survival, but most of them now have new growth. Since they're dangling on the edge of survival, I am worried that this method will finish them off.

Would reducing the photoperiod help? I could also disconnect the yeast reactors at night. Would adding a few Siamese Algae Eaters help with this stuff? I guess it's not really algae, so maybe they won't. I also noticed today that I have new baby snails. Will more snails help? One of them was munching on the algae, so it looks like they eat it.

I would appreciate any advice you could give me!
Thanks,
Cat


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

I wouldnt go over 10 hour photoperiod even with T12.
Bump up your CO2 and get a nitrate kit.
BGA can fix its own nitrogen source and will show up with low nitrates and heavily polluted water. It is also encouraged by light in the wrong spectrum - around 550 to 600nm where phycocyanin absorb.
T12 bulbs should be changed out every 6 to 12 months.










be careful with BGA as it is an hepatotoxin (liver)


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi CatG,

I agree with Newt, start by cutting back your photoperiod to 8 - 10 hours per day at most. I usually get Blue-Green Algae (BGA) if I let my nitrate (NO3) level get low and/or don't have sufficient water circulation in the aquarium. I did not see any mention of fertilizer, are you using any?

I would start by removing as much of the BGA manually as possible, use a tweezers or gloves. Throw away some of your substrate (gravel) if it cannot be removed and the area of infestation is minimal. When as much is removed as possible then I suggest you do an immediate 50% water change and do a water change twice a week as long as the problem persists. Clean your filter and remove any debris.

Reduce your photoperiod. I have about 2 WPG of T5 Power Compact and my photoperiod is about 6 - 7 hours but with T-12 you could go a little longer since the bulbs are not as bright. When I start up a tank I usually start with about 4 - 5 hours per day and slowly ramp up the time period over several weeks.

I would also start a fertilization protocol; I use a variation on the Estimative Index (IE) method, and get your nitrate, and other nutrient levels up, so the plants can try to out-compete the BGA.

There are methods to treat BGA outbreaks that are more aggressive such as antibiotics, hydrogen peroxide, and blackouts, but if you can correct the problem(s) that caused the outbreak to begin with you may not have to go to the next step. If the problem persists, let us know.


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## CatG (Apr 10, 2010)

Thanks for the response!

I am using Flourish Comprehensive supplement as fertilizer, but it doesn't seem to contain any nitrates. How do I raise the nitrate level? (I'm brand new to this, and this is my first tank.) My tank is a 75 gallon, but I only put in enough to treat a 60 gallon. I was afraid that since my plants were so young, that too much ferts would burn them up. When I do the water change, should I use the full 75 gallon dose?

I have 2 two litre yeast reactors running, but I can add more if necessary. The instructions said to use 3 for my size tank, but I thought that might be too much CO2 for the snails. I wasn't sure how much oxygen the little plants were producing, or how much was getting in from outside, so I only used two of the reactors. Is there a test kit I can get for oxygen levels? 

As for the light, I will reduce the photoperiod to 8 hours. Will that be ok? Will that hurt my plants?

Also, I will try to pick out all the gravel I see with the algae on it. Most of the rocks are too big for tweezers, so I won't be able to use those. Are gloves really necessary? I can use them if they are, but it would be easier to get ahold of stuff if I didn't have to wear them.

There is some debris on the filter basket, so I will clean that off. Do I have to take the intake tube out, or can I just pop the basket off?

Sorry for all of the questions. I'm trying to do as much research as possible, but I find it easier to discuss problems "in person" so to speak.

Thanks again,
Cat


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi CatG,

LOL, don't worry about being new. Although I had aquariums for decades I just started in planted aquariums a few years ago. We all have to start somewhere. When I started with planted tanks one of the members here suggested I start by reading the "stickys" at the beginning of the "New to Planted Aquariums", "Lighting", and "Fertilizing" sub-forums. They contain a wealth of information, answered a lot of my questions, and helped me learn the basics quickly.

When I first started I used Seachem products and they work very well. In addition to Seachem Flourish Comprehensive, which is good for micro-nutrients, I would pick up and start dosing Seachem Flourish Nitrogen and Seachem Flourish Phosphorus. That should help you get your nutrient level up. Dose your fertilizers at the recommended levels.

I did DIY CO2 when I first started as well and it worked fine but it is time consuming. I did it because I wasn't sure if I would enjoy planted tanks (which I do a lot!) and a CO2 system can be expensive (but doesn't need to be). I used two 2-liter soda bottles on a 45 gallon so I would recommend you add your 3rd bottle now.

The reduced photoperiod should not adversely effect your plants, in fact they may actually grow better once you add the extra CO2, nitrogen, and phosphorus!

BGA is nasty stuff; it is slimy and smells bad. It is very bad for your liver is it absorbed into your body. I try not to handle it but when I do I wash my hands thoroughly with an anti-bacterial soap until they no longer stink!

As for your filter, remove the debris and make sure it has good outflow. You want as much circulation in your aquarium as possible.

Hope this helps!


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Flourish Comprehensive is great stuff but only contains minute amounts of macro nutrients (N,P&K). It is micro-nutrients. You will need KNO3 (potassium nitrate - N) and KH2PO4 (mono potassium phosphate - P). In my opinion you do NOT need Potassium sulfate (K) as the other two contain enough K. You can get these compounds/ferts from several online sources. One or two pounds of KNO3 and half pound of the KH2PO4 will last you quite awhile. I like Greenleaf Aquariums because of the customer service you get.

You can go to the algae forum and read the sticky thread on Method of Controlled Imbalances for fertilizing.

Dont worry about 8hrs. It will be enough.

Good Luck.


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## CatG (Apr 10, 2010)

Thanks for all of the help and advice!

I pulled out what algae I could find, did a 30% water change, dosed the ferts, and added another CO2 bottle. Today I am starting the reduced lighting period, and later this week I think I may go get some more mature plants, get the macro nutrients, and get a nitrate test kit. I may also order 3 or 4 Siamese Algae Eaters, since it appears I have some hair algae also.

Right now, it's not real bad at all. Unless you looked real closely, you probably couldn't tell there was any algae in there. However, I have no doubts that this will quickly get out of hand, so if you have any other suggestions as to what else I can do, I would appreciate it!

Thanks so much!
Cat


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi CatG,

Sounds like you are off to a good start; keep us posted how things are going. When you get a chance, start reading those "stickys" and it will save you a lot of work and problems.


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## CatG (Apr 10, 2010)

I have started reading the stickies. Can't do too much at once or my head will explode. 

Today, I was going through the rest of the gravel (stuff that has NOT been in my tank), and I noticed that the gravel CAME with the green stuff (BGA) already on it.  So, I accidentally introduced it into my tank by putting used gravel in there. Well, lesson learned I guess.

It would be a pain, but should I remove all the gravel that's in my tank and buy new? Or should I just continue with the treatment plan and get my first experience in algae removal? I've got no fish just yet, so I guess if I am going to experiment, now would be the time.


Cat


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

Your gravel situation is really up to you. Can you.......and do you.... want to take the time and expense to change it out?
When I first set up my 75 I choose a small brown pebble called River Pebble. I liked the color. Unfortunately the rock contained organic phosphate and my PO4 levels were of the scale which topped out at 50ppm. Well, I couldnt live with algae outbreaks (of all types) any longer. I choose a substrate made for plants (Flourite) and was glad I did it. I also didnt use laterite the second time around as it would cloud the water when re-arranging plants.


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## CatG (Apr 10, 2010)

Well, I wouldn't want to have to deal with removing the gravel, but I can if it's necessary. I don't really like it anyway, I just used it because it was free. Since I bought the tank (which I thought was going to be the biggest expense), I seem to have done nothing but spend money on it, and am feeling a bit guilty about that. I would love to have some of that flourish black sand, but I would probably have to buy 3 or 4 bags of it and it's pricey.

If I have to replace the gravel, I will probably end up just buying new gravel. I still need to buy a couple of plants and ferts, plus I haven't even gotten fish yet. I'm afraid my hubby will have a heart attack if I tell him I need to spend $100 on substrate. 

Also, if I can get it to work, here is a pic of some of the rocks with the green stuff on it. I'm not entirely sure it's BGA. Does it look like it? If it's too hard to see, I can take a new pic.

Cat


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## CatG (Apr 10, 2010)

Here's a slightly better pic.

Cat


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi CatG,

That is some large grain gravel; it almost looks like local river stones! It is going to be difficult for plants to root properly in gravel that is as large as that is.

I don't use gravel, although I did when I started. I used Natural Gravel, with a grain size about the same as a popcorn kernel. runs about $16 per 60# bag and you would need a couple of them. You can also purchase various clay products; I use Turface Pro League Grey available at John Deere dealers, where 50# will cost you about $20 and do a 75 gallon tank just fine. BTW there is also a sub-forum called "Substrates" with "stickys" in case your head hasn't exploded yet! LOL! Hang in there, it gets easier!


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## CatG (Apr 10, 2010)

Yes, the gravel IS large, much larger than what I would have picked out myself. I've got a whole wheelbarrow full of it. lol I do have topsoil under it though. Most of the plants have exposed dirt all around because the rocks were bigger than my baby plants. 

If I end up changing it out, I will definitely get something MUCH smaller. I'm partial to sand, so I may look into that.

Thanks so much!
Cat


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## f1ea (Jul 7, 2009)

If your gravel or topping is too large and allows the soil to mix into the water, you will have ALL the algae possible and for a looooong time. 

In order to spend the least money and since you are partial to sand, just use the cheapest top soil and pool filter/silica sand (i think costs about US$10 per 50 lbs).

1" of top soil + 3/4" of sand is ok. 
Rinse the sand a couple times before putting it into your tank. Sand will eventually show your fish's wastes though; so maybe try and have not so messy fish, or a LOT of plants to conceal the trash hehe... 

For cleaning gravel and other dodgy stuff you will put into your tank, you can make a 10% bleach solution and do a little dip then a good rinse.

Good luck


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## CatG (Apr 10, 2010)

Thanks so much for the advice! There is a good bit of exposed dirt due to the size of the rocks. I am definitely going to look into getting the pool filter sand! If I can get it that cheap, that will be totally worth picking out every one of the rocks in there now. My water gets "muddy" every time I stick my hand in there, and if that is going to keep the algae growing, I will be most glad to be rid of it. Not to mention that water changes seem to be the only way to clear it up. I've done a 20% change 2 times already (due to muddy water resulting from plantings), and I've only had the tank set up for 5 days. I just bought a couple larger plants tonight and planted them, and I can't see anything in the tank now.  I just did a 30% change yesterday due to the algae. It was nice and clear this morning. 

Oh well, once I get everything set up as I want it, I won't have to mess with it so much and hopefully won't have to deal with muddy water too often.

By the way, I saw somw algea in the store that looked just like what I have. The lady said it was black brush. Is that waht it looks like to you, or is it too hard to tell from the pic? One of the rocks had a little tuft of blackish grey stuff growing out of it, but the layer on the rock looked more like BGA to me.

Cat


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## CatG (Apr 10, 2010)

Another quick question about the sand - I plan on getting some HC. Will that take root in the sand? Can snails eat the poo and stuff off (do they eat the poo?) of sand, or will they only eat if off gravel? 

Thanks,
Cat


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

HC grows great in my Flourite Black sand shrimp tank.

Snails do NOT eat fish poop.


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## CatG (Apr 10, 2010)

Thanks for the reply! I am happy to hear that, as I really do like the sand.

Cat


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## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

You will need to rinse the F. Black Sand well so you do not get (temporary) GH issues.
Get a plastic bucket about 1 gal in size and fill about 1/4. Run cold water into pail while you swish the sand around. You need to swish and rinse until the off-white foamy stuff is gone. Just becareful not to over swish or you will loose some sand in the process.


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