# Amazonia regular vs. powder type



## Jessie

Hi everyone!

I am thinking of adding some ADA Amazonia to my existing substrate. Sounds odd, but I already have fluorite, pea gravel and playground sand which obviously clashes. However, I am going to be re-scaping my tank and plan on pushing the mulmy existing substrate to the back for more slope and adding some nice dark Amazonia (or something of that type) to the most visible areas that I plan on having.

I'm a little confused on the differences between the two and was hoping I could get some opinions.

There is regular, more pellet-like Amazonia and then there is the powder type. Is the powder type to be used as a base or bottom layer only? According to the ADA-ADGshop site, it says the Powder form can be used as a top layer as well.

Does anyone have any experience with both to compare? I plan on having a nice HC carpet or something along those lines, with some open areas. The powder type costs more, which leads me to believe it's more of a case of aesthetic taste.

Any thoughts?


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

The powder is supposed to be used underneath the Aquasoil. You could mix your current substrate together, and place a very thin layer of the Powersand underneath it. Then, fashion your substrate the way you want it to be, and cover it with a layer of the Aquasoil. Be very careful of compaction, which will lead to hydrogen sulfide gas pockets in your substrate, and kill the plants that are growing near the gas pocket. You may want to get a bamboo skewer to poke the substrate weekly to prevent this from happening. Or anything else that is long and pointy would work fine (chopsticks, for instance). Be sure to show me your pics of your new tank! I'll be sure to give it a "3" rating


----------



## Jessie

NICE! A 3 rating will totally help me to blend in with the Joneses 

So are the Power Sands and AquaSoil powder-type basically for the same bottom layering?

Ok. So maybe what I'll do is just get regular grain Amazonia (ahh the retrospect of wishing I went with a dark substrate) and make it all look intentional. So far what I have is working really well. All of the different grain sizes are keeping things healthy and breathing.


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

LOL!!  Thank you God for the pic!! I wasn't sure if anyone was going to get my sig! Just missing Walken!

Yeah, different grades of substrate can help, as long as there isn't too much sand! Personally, I never vacuum my substrate as I find that the mulm is the best part for the plants. Frankly, I don't even really see the need for Aquasoil so long as you fertilize regularly and have some mulm on the bottom, or peat moss underneath the substrate. It certainly doesn't hurt to have it, and if it is pleasing to your eye, than get it by all means. But, it isn't needed. I don't use it....


----------



## Jessie

I firmly believe that Christopher Walken would make the perfect uncle. He's pretty much the bee's knees. I was on vacation recently and Hertz rental gave us a free upgrade to a Lincoln Town Car. All of sudden, we started talking like him? Mobbin' around!

So then maybe I'll get something cheaper and black, hahaha. I bought a 50lb bag of playground sand and seriously only used about three Big Gulp sized portions from it just to sprinkle over and add extra "grabbing" for fine-stemmed plants and to act as a tummy-buffer for bottom dwellers in the event that the fluorite would mix up. So in relation to the other material used (pea gravel and fluorite), there's very little sand.

I'm really liking the CaribSea Tropical Isle Tahitian Moon Gravel, but I'm unsure of just how much it will buffer the pH and hardness. My water comes out of the tap in chunks, so I definitely don't need anything to further harden the water. And it's extra fine.... argh I dunno.

We shall see!


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Off hand, I don't really know how it would effect hardness, but Google it!!! Their website should say how it would effect pH and hardness. Otherwise, buy some peat moss to soften the water, or something like that!


----------



## eklikewhoa

Powder aquasoil is just that....fine bits of aquasoil that is used as a top layer to "dress" in between small plants and such.

*Power*Sand is something totally different which is a base layer which goes on before the aquasoil.

The Moon sand will not alter your water parameters but it does compact over time and build anaerobic gas pockets which will kill off plants and stink really bad when disturbed if not routinely turned.


----------



## Jessie

Awesome guys, thanks. I've been finding mixed reviews on the Moon sand. But indeed, it makes me nervous of compacting. Next, I shall look into Seachem's Onyx sand.


----------



## sithspawn

DonaldmBoyer said:


> The powder is supposed to be used underneath the Aquasoil. You could mix your current substrate together, and place a very thin layer of the Powersand underneath it. Then, fashion your substrate the way you want it to be, and cover it with a layer of the Aquasoil. Be very careful of compaction, which will lead to hydrogen sulfide gas pockets in your substrate, and kill the plants that are growing near the gas pocket. You may want to get a bamboo skewer to poke the substrate weekly to prevent this from happening. Or anything else that is long and pointy would work fine (chopsticks, for instance). Be sure to show me your pics of your new tank! I'll be sure to give it a "3" rating


Sounds like some confusion going on. Aquasoil comes in 2 types; the normal kind that we all use the most and the more expensive powder type. The powder type grains are small but essentially the both of them are the same, they are the top layer soil. Powersand and powersand special are base fertilisers to be used at the bottom of the tank and covered up by the Aquasoil.

For my 1200 Liter setup, I have bought the following items as base fertilisers and substrate:

*Base fertilisers:*
1 X 18 liter pack of powersand special
1 X bottle each of Penac P, Penac W, Bacter 100, Clear Super and Tourmaline BC

*Substrate:*
11 X 9 liter bags of Aquasoil Amazoinia normal type
4 X 9 liter bags of Aquasoil Amazonia Powder type.

I've decided to spend on the other ADA base fert stuff because for a big tank I might as well take no chances. It's not easy to resolve mistakes when it comes to not enough nutrition in a heavily planted tank.

The powder type soil is there for the areas where there is an unplanted open space for my cories to dig around in and for the sections with really small plants. I find the small plants like downoi look better in small size substrate rather than the big balls of normal amazonia soil. 
I'll spread a thin 1 inch layer of the powder type over the normal soil rather then using it from ground up. This is to reduce the cost otherwise it's way too expensive to do. Even then I'm not sure yet if the powder type will be enough but I can always run over to my store since it's about 20 mins away.


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

I believe that I had read that whereas the powder form can be used as a top layer, it is more beneficial to use a THIN layer on the bottom. I think that it would be POTENTIALLY more harmful and expensive to use as a top layer....you are only trying to provide nutrients to the plants with the Powersand, not use it for aesthetics. I mean, you _can_, but it would take a lot more of it to make it look good. Plus, if you add too much, you run into potential compaction issues.

Personally, to each his own!!  I am not saying that you are wrong, Sith. My feeling is that Aquasoil and Powersand is overpriced and overrated. But, that would be my opinion.


----------



## sithspawn

DonaldmBoyer said:


> I believe that I had read that whereas the powder form can be used as a top layer, it is more beneficial to use a THIN layer on the bottom. I think that it would be POTENTIALLY more harmful and expensive to use as a top layer....you are only trying to provide nutrients to the plants with the Powersand, not use it for aesthetics. I mean, you _can_, but it would take a lot more of it to make it look good. Plus, if you add too much, you run into potential compaction issues.
> 
> Personally, to each his own!!  I am not saying that you are wrong, Sith. My feeling is that Aquasoil and Powersand is overpriced and overrated. But, that would be my opinion.


I'm still not sure what you mean by more harmful as a top layer? Powersand/Powersand special is harmful as a top layer but not the powder-type aquasoil. It is in-fact a top layer substrate. It's exactly the same as the aquasoil except for the grain size. That's why I think there's confusion about what we talking about.

It's not overrated but over-priced for sure. Some other substrate may be better in certain cases but for mine, ADA is the best choice. Would certainly like to try a 3 footer with Seachem or Dennerle Substrate system.


----------



## Jessie

ADA is the Gucci to my dollar-store wallet.

We'll see which direction I go.

Thanks for sharing and contributing, everyone!


----------



## eklikewhoa

I think there is a bit of confusion here.

_Powersand_ is the base substrate which should be used as the bottom most substrate
_Pow*d*er Aquasoil_ is just that powder version of aquasoil which is a smaller diameter soil which is used for aesthetic reasons.
_Aquasoil_ is the top layer which is regular version of it and the diameter of it is bigger then that of Powder version.

Also when you compare ADA soils to other commercial plant substrates it is not that much more.....


----------



## Jessie

Thanks for clarifying!

Right now I am torn between the Aquasoil and Seachem Onyx sand. I'm still too unfamiliar with both to make an informed decision. Both have their pro's and con's from what I am seeing.

Does Aquasoil _**REALLY**_ make that big of a difference in plant health? An actual difference, not big-brand-placebo effect difference.


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Eklikewhoa and Sith, you are right! I went to the ADA/ADG website this past weekend and re-re-looked at the PowerSand, Aquasoil, and Powder. So, sorry Jess for any confusion I may have caused you!

I still don't think that there is any "super benefit" in any of these products. I think that you would need some iron in your substrate, as well as some peat moss at the very bottom to provide some extra nutrition and some acidity. If you already have some mulmy substrate, I would also use that as well. If you think that it would be more "eye-catching" to use some Aquasoil for the top, that would be entirely fine. My opinion is that those products are just the lastest "craze," and don't really provide any benefit that you couldn't provide on your own without spending major $$.

Again, this is my opinion! It wouldn't hurt using it, Jess, but you could get the same results using cheaper products! And the same goes with the Onyx sand!  If anything, I would look into getting Ecocomplete instead! There seems to be issues with carbonate using the Onyx Sand.


----------



## Ajax

Jessie said:


> Does Aquasoil _**REALLY**_ make that big of a difference in plant health? An actual difference, not big-brand-placebo effect difference.


Yes, it makes a HUGE difference. There hasn't been a plant yet that has not grown well for me in the Aquasoil/Powersand combo.


----------



## houseofcards

I've just recently started growing HC in both AS/PS and eco complete, so I would like to see for myself if this is just two different approaches (water column dosing vs substrate) or if there really is a noticeable different with AS.


----------



## Jessie

Ajax, Houseofcards:

Thanks for your input. As I've surfed around, I've found gleaming testimonials for HC health in AquaSoil. I would not be adding PowerSand, just Aquasoil over and up what I already have. I'd pushing back my current substrate and adding the AS in front.

Houseofcards - I'd love to hear how it goes for you with the two different substrates. Keep us posted!

Donald -- no worries. I think it's all so confusing anyways, it's good to see the process really spelled out here for me and everyone. I'm wary of Ecocomplete because I've heard that is extremely messy.

This is such a debacle!!  

So now I need to calculate. For a 125g, 72" long and only needing about 8'' of the front covered... maybe two 9L bags?


----------



## Jessie

Well I caved and went to the LFS and bought some AquaSoil. Hopefully it'll all be magic from here!


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

I don't like you anymore!  LOL!


----------



## Jessie

Hahaha!! I fell into the spell of the designer label and can now officially say that there will some element of my tank that is ADA. I just have really high hopes for a happy HC carpet, and the reviews I've heard have been great for it.

AND!!! the LFS cut me a deal and gave me a special-Jessie discount. SO THERE 

However, I did order a Buddha for it, so that'll shatter any nature aquarium nazi's dreams of converting me!!!  j/k


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Oh......GOD!! You bought TWO things that were unecessary!! AAAARRRGGGHHH!!!

Well, to each her own! The Aquasoil, as I said, certainly isn't going to hurt anything. It's debatable whether it really benefits anything, or if you could get the same results by maintaining regular ferts (which you deny being able to do) , and adding a layer of peat under an iron-based substrate. Pressurized CO2 is the other key ingredient along with good lighting.

I hope you get the results you're looking for! I'm sure getting "Jessie" discounts don't hurt, either!

BUT A BUDDAH?!?! Oh, for cryin' out loud!


----------



## eklikewhoa

DonaldmBoyer said:


> Oh......GOD!! You bought TWO things that were unecessary!! AAAARRRGGGHHH!!!
> 
> Well, to each her own! The Aquasoil, as I said, certainly isn't going to hurt anything. It's debatable whether it really benefits anything, or if you could get the same results by maintaining regular ferts (which you deny being able to do) , and adding a layer of peat under an iron-based substrate. Pressurized CO2 is the other key ingredient along with good lighting.
> 
> I hope you get the results you're looking for! I'm sure getting "Jessie" discounts don't hurt, either!
> 
> BUT A BUDDAH?!?! Oh, for cryin' out loud!


just wondering but have you ever used aquasoil?


----------



## eklikewhoa

Aquasoil/Powersand









Eco-complete....everything got really leggy and poor color to them 









Same tank before eco-complete with inert moon sand....nothing different between the two other then substate..









The Eco made everything look horrible and Foreground was not possible with it. The last two pictures are of a 20H which had 96w PC over it and the dosing didn't change nor did the co2. After that incident the eco got dumped and I vow to never touch or rec that stuff again.


----------



## houseofcards

Well I think it would be fair to say, based on so many beautiful member tanks here at APC and elsewhere that you can have lush, full grow with almost any type of substrate, whether it be inert or a product like eco or AS. I have two tanks running now with Eco long-term and can only say good things about the product and company. I also have recently started up a tank with AS so I'll have to see how that goes for myself. Mileage does vary.


----------



## Jessie

HAHAHA Donald. You're a trip. Just keep in mind, Mr. Sassy Pants, that once all is said and done, my 125 JUST MIGHT challenge your 100 to a DUEL. I don't necessarily deny being able to maintain a fert regimen, I just don't have the tank anywhere near a place where I'd want to "optimize" this or that. THAT, and I got frustrated with the whole concept after questions remained vague.


SO THEREEEE.


But don't worry, the hosing for my UV sterilizer that plunges into the right side of my tank really adds a nice "Three Mile Island" look. Takashi would cry.

:heh:


----------



## phanmc

I wasn't successful with eriocaulons and toninas until I tried out ADA Aquasoil. For the vast majority of other plants I had no problem growing them into lush colorful jungles using any substrate with a good fertilizing routine.


----------



## mrbelvedere138

I've grown all sorts of difficult plants in plain Fluorite, and I've grown carpets of HC in Onyx. 

However, growth is oh so much better in Aquasoil. It also has a very high CEC.

The cool thing about Aquasoil/Powersand is that in everything but the highest growth tanks, you can skip dosing N and P altogether should you desire. I still dose K and iron/traces.

Plus, Aquasoil looks better than any other commercial substrate, IMO.


----------



## Jessie

phanmc, mrbelvedere138:

Thanks for the great input. I'm looking forward to redoing my tank with the AquaSoil. Seems like I made a good choice!


----------

