# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Why is tank PH higher than tap?



## jzkmom (Jul 5, 2003)

The ph of my tap water is 7.8, but my tank was holding steady at 6.8 with yeast CO2 injection. The PH of my tank has been high for the past couple weeks. I've made two new yeast mixtures, but I haven't been able to get the PH to come down at all. 

The tank is testing at 8.2, while my tap water tests 7.8 (both tested with a Hach digital PH meter). 

Nothing new has been added except the addition of KNO3 for the past couple weeks since my nitrates hit zero. Will the addition of KNO3 (Greenlight Stump Remover) increase PH?


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## jzkmom (Jul 5, 2003)

The ph of my tap water is 7.8, but my tank was holding steady at 6.8 with yeast CO2 injection. The PH of my tank has been high for the past couple weeks. I've made two new yeast mixtures, but I haven't been able to get the PH to come down at all. 

The tank is testing at 8.2, while my tap water tests 7.8 (both tested with a Hach digital PH meter). 

Nothing new has been added except the addition of KNO3 for the past couple weeks since my nitrates hit zero. Will the addition of KNO3 (Greenlight Stump Remover) increase PH?


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## António Vitor1 (Feb 2, 2003)

what do you put to replace water evaporation?
tap water?

if that is the case then this is your problem, what evaporates is pure water, everything else will stay in the tank, when you put more water to replace that missing water, you are increasing the minerals...

you have more problems now maybe because it's more hot (more evaporation)...

Regards!
António Vitor


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

jzkmom,

KNO3 should not raise the pH.

In the absence of other buffers, there are two possibilities; the CO2 in your tank is lower than the CO2 in your tap or the KH in your tank is higher than the KH in your tap.

Either way, you wouldn't seem to have very much CO2 in your tank.

Have you measured the KH?


Roger Miller


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## António Vitor1 (Feb 2, 2003)

if there is more KH in the tank water, then I might be right Roger...

that is what is happening on my tank if i don't use rain water to replace evaporated water, but of course I have an open top and MH system (more evaporation)









10% of my water tank evaporates in 2-3 days, imagine few water changes, and you will get in a few months "stone" water...

but of course there are more "feasibly" possibilities...


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## 2la (Feb 3, 2003)

Try testing your tap water after it's been sitting out for 24 hours. After outgassing the CO2, it's likely to have a pH equal to or greater than your tank water, all other parameters being equal.


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## jzkmom (Jul 5, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by António Vitor:
> what do you put to replace water evaporation?
> tap water?


I am doing a 50% water change per week, so there's not really enough time to see alot of evaporation. I am using tap water for water changes.


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## jzkmom (Jul 5, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by 2la:
> Try testing your tap water after it's been sitting out for 24 hours. After outgassing the CO2, it's likely to have a pH equal to or greater than your tank water, all other parameters being equal.


2la,
I tested the PH & KH today of the tank, the tap, and tap water after sitting out 24 hours. Here's the results:

Tank: PH 7.8; KH 3
Tap: PH 7.8; KH 4
Tap after 24 hrs: PH 8.0; KH 4

OK, the KH of my tank has tested at 4 for weeks now, but today the tank tests at 3, while the tap tests at 4. Looks like the tank has lost a little carbonate hardness, I don't know why.

I have found out that the paramaters of my tap water can fluctuate from time to time because the water can come from 3 different wells in the area.

The ph of the tank has come down to 7.8 (was 8.2). I'm guessing this slight drop is from co2, but I can't figure out why I can't get any better concentration of CO2 from the current and past 2 diy yeast mixtures. According to the pH/KH/CO2 table, this means the CO2 level is only 1.4, even with diy co2 injection.

If anyone knows what these readings mean, please help. Also, is there anything I can do to bring up the CO2 level, short of switching to a pressurized system?


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

How big is your tank?
Sorry if I missed it!

*My Digital Gallery*


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## jzkmom (Jul 5, 2003)

Sorry, I think I left that out. The tank is a 30 gallon long.


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

OK, and you have 2 DIY yeast setups?
How is the CO2 being disolved into the water?

For water ever reason the CO2 does not seem to be disolving into your tank.

*My Digital Gallery*


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## jzkmom (Jul 5, 2003)

I have one DIY yeast setup. I have it going into an external diy reactor (made out of PVC with bioballs inside) that is inline with my canister filter. 

Whats weird is that it was working so well, holding the PH steady at 6.8 for 2-3 weeks with one mixture... now the last 3 mixtures haven't worked well at all.


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## Ngaio (Oct 7, 2004)

Could it be that you have a co2 leak before the reactor (ie the seal between the bottle lid and tubing)? Maybe the new yeast batches are fine, but the co2 isn't getting to the tank.


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## jzkmom (Jul 5, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Ngaio:
> Could it be that you have a co2 leak before the reactor (ie the seal between the bottle lid and tubing)? Maybe the new yeast batches are fine, but the co2 isn't getting to the tank.


I just checked all the seals with dish soap, but couldn't find any leaks. The current mixture is less than one week old, and I think co2 production has almost completely stopped. There is only about 2 bubbles per minute in the bubble counter. If I shake the mixture up, the bubbles will speed up, but slow down again within a couple minutes. What is wrong? It never got going strong enough to even lower the PH, and now it has stopped producing... after only 6 days.


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## Ron Nelson (Apr 2, 2003)

Maybe your yeast has gone bad. How do you store it?

Ron


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## jzkmom (Jul 5, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by rdn2:
> Maybe your yeast has gone bad. How do you store it?


I just bought the yeast 2 weeks ago. Mixed up the first batch right away, and I'm on my third batch since then. Unopened pouches were stored at room temperature, and once opened I refrigerated them.


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## Jenneane (Aug 5, 2003)

Hello. I am a complete planted tank newbie, but have cooked forever. Yeast is very sensitive to temp. I would refrigerate all the yeast, including unopened. I am assuming that in LA you have air conditioning, but nonetheless, even 70 degrees is too warm to store yeast, in my opinion. It will expire much more quickly that way.

What is the expiration date on your yeast? Also, is this batch "highly active?" I always assumed that highly active yeast just dissolved more readily, but read somewhere recently that it is actually engineered to be more active. So if your previous batches were made with highly active yeast and this one was with regular yeast, that could be the culprit.

Just my two cents.


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## jzkmom (Jul 5, 2003)

Jenneane,
I didn't know I should refrigerate the unopened yeast because it was not refrigerated in the store, so I kept it at room temp. I can't find any exp date on the yeast pkg. It is Fleishmann's Dry Active Yeast. It does not say it is highly active, just active. I need to go buy some more yeast in case this is expired.


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## ekim (Jan 31, 2004)

1 bottle of DIY CO2 is not enough!
1 bottle is good for about 20-25 gallons.

Anyway, how much sugar are you adding? 
What tempuarture is the water that you are adding to the mix?

*My Digital Gallery*


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## Ngaio (Oct 7, 2004)

jzk: you could have bad yeast but the shelf life is, I think, about a year. If your yeast is older than that I'd find another store where the turn overfor the yeast is higher.

As an aside, I buy 1 pound packages of yeast (I have eclectic tastes, I use it for baking bread as well as producing co2







) for less than $3.00. It's a lot cheaper than the little envelopes. I seal the unused yeast in a canning jar and keep it in the fridge...seems to last a long time, at least a year, probably more like 2.


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## Jenneane (Aug 5, 2003)

Hmmmmmm... Not refrigerated in the store... I guess some stores do seem to put it into the baking aisle. The stores I buy from usually keep it in the refrigerated section.

It seems to me that the date on a yeast package is often written or stamped into the pleated sides of the package.

I could be wrong, but I wonder if the "highly active" versus "active" yeast might make a difference. Now I'm curious. 

Well, I just did a bunch of internet research and can't find anything that seems to define the differences between "highly active" and "active" yeast. But I did find a cooking site that told cooks to look for yeast "in the dairy aisle" which suggests that it should be refrigerated. That same site also said that yeast could be kept at room temp., but that it would keep longer in the refrigerator or freezer. My concern about storing yeast in a kitchen cabinet would be that it would often be much warmer than "room temp." because of oven heat, etc.

So there's more than you wanted to know, I am sure.

Jenneane


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## Jenneane (Aug 5, 2003)

A POUND of yeast? Holy cow! That's a lot of bread.

Sure, you get the yeast cheap, but what does your flour bill look like? ;-)


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## jzkmom (Jul 5, 2003)

The current mixture has 2 cups of sugar, 1 teaspoon of yeast and 1 teaspoon of baking soda. I've tried different mixtures though. 
The water temperature is about 80.


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## jzkmom (Jul 5, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Ngaio:
> jzk: you could have bad yeast but the shelf life is, I think, about a year. If your yeast is older than that I'd find another store where the turn overfor the yeast is higher.


I got the yeast at Wal-Mart Supercenter. I don't know what their turnover rate for yeast is, but they do keep it on the dry baking goods aisle, not in the refrigerated section.


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## WetHeadP (May 13, 2004)

I found a Perfect Receptical for a DIY C02 chanber.

A 11 litre Water Jug.

It's got a nice Screw on cap. 
the caps are generally a soft plastic so poking holes are a snap with a good old Philips screwdriver.

1. Pop two holes. 
2. Put in tubing with a check valve on outside.
3. Wip out hot glue gun.
4. Start the air pump. (note: they can expand quite a bit before the pressure holds. (approx another 2 inches wide)
5. Test for leaks. (pour a small amount of water around top. look for bubbles)

And you can make a BIG batch of yeast (i've been doing 4 cups water 4 cups sugar 1 tbsp yeast)

But most imporntantly (it's steryl) it better be. its your drinking water.









Got any proven High yield C02 mixture recipies?


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