# Autumn Scape - Started Early



## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Well my Iwagumi ended sooner than planned with a massive and unexpected hair algae and diatom bloom, smothering all the plants. I tore it down today, feeling rather sorry for myself, but thats all changed now - I love my new hardscape plans! There's plenty of room for improvement so If you have suggestions or want to tell me to scrap it and re-start then please tell me!!

Front









Angled









I still have some E. vivipara and a bit of HC left, Which I want to use around the "path" area. I might try D. diandra and R. "nanjenshan" in the back corners. If you have any plant suggestions then I'd love to hear them.

Tom


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## Jessie (Apr 23, 2007)

ooh! yay! Can't wait to see where you take this!


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## harsh (Jan 22, 2006)

i'm loving it..
just that wood seems too symmetrical, try densing up one side.


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

I've tried a new wood position, more off center and weighted to the left slightly. I like it better, but what do you think? I'm not too sure if the left hand side looks to empty...









Bought some plants today too

Mayaca fluviatilis









Hydrocotyl









Microsorium sp "narrow" and Crinum natans









I also already still have the E. vivipara, D. diandra, Java and Willow (?) moss and HC spare. Just want to get hold of some R. "nanjenshan", Mini Riccia, and a small bit of Glosso maybe.

I'm making a DIY ADA style stand for this tank, which *should* be finished around tuesday/wednesday all being well, so the tank will stay dry until then. Will post pictures of the stand when it's finished.

Here it is now though:









Tom


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Good job on the stand for a small tank. How is the door attached. Hinges or does it just click into place?
Wood is MDF?


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Thanks. The door is attached by standard spring loaded kitchen cabinet hinges, and yes the wood is indeed MDF. I think it should take 5gals easy. It is very stable and seems plenty strong enough. I have a shelf as well which adds to the stability. 

Tom


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Yes it should be fine. I just finished one for a 30 gallon tank (61cm by 40 cm by 45 cm high) and it is from MDF as well, and a copy of ADA as well. MDF is very strong, and the only problems arrise when it is wet so it needs to be sealed very well. After that it should last years.

How high is the stand? 75cm, 85cm or other?


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

It is around 90cm tall, so quite high. There is no seating near it so I made it so it could be viewed mainly from standing height.


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Similiar to my idea. Mine is 85cm tall with a 45 cm talk tank going on top. It is meant to be viewed standing up. Hopefully the tankmaker will be finished soon and I can set it up.

Good luck with yours.

Just wondering, Is your just a box? Ot looks this the supports of it are the sides only and the front piece is nailed onto the top and the sides (as a support to prevent side way movement. Is the back the same? That is the top isn't nailed to the front but rather the front is nailed to the top.


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Here it is without the back and door:










The sides were routed out to give a secure joint for the shelf, and the top piece was also routed to slot onto the sides. Then it was glued and pinned in place, with the front panel giving the stability before the back was put on.

Here is a pic of the unpainted cabinet, but ignore the pattening on the inside of the back, it will be grey!!










Tom


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Looks realy nice. You did a good Job and I am sure the shelf will come in handy. Ofcourse you have a hole in the shelf to allow the hoses to go by to the tank right, like on the side of the stand.

What color grey will you be using. I have been trying to chose a grey which is not to light and not to dark. Hard to find the one I like.


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

They grey is fairly dark, but I think it should look OK. I know what you mean about finding the right one though! 

Tom


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

I've had a thought about the planting arrangement, especially in the forground with moss, riccia, hairgrass, HC, Hydroc. and maybe a touch of glosso. (I know thats a lot of plants, but as it's suppposed to resemble a forest, maybe it could look more natural with more variety) I was thinking that if I place some moss/riccia down on the substrate, could I plant the other plants "through" them to make it seem more natural? Would it work, or would the moss overgrow plants like hairgrass and the odd bit of glosso?

Tom


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Bump ^


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## PapaLoc (Mar 5, 2006)

I really like the look of your tank and stand.

Won't it give you a severe headache trying to separate all of those plant species? I would think they'd grow into eachother and give a somewhat "messy" look instead of forest.


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## zQ. (Dec 15, 2006)

IMO the Rotala Sp "Green" and Eleocharis Pavulus will do well with this scape,BTW nice stand and Hard Scape.


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

@ PapaLoc - Forest floors are messy! lol The way I see it, a forest floor will never be composed solely of one or two plant species. Nor are there lots of species nicely separated out into groups. They are all growing in together. Take a look at this link:

http://www.agriculture.purdue.edu/fnr/stoutwoods/vrtrail/flowery_forest_floor.jpg

I do understand what you mean about it being a pain to separate them, but I think I could acheive a more natural look than just a section with moss, or just HC. Tall stems such as Mayacca fluviatilis, Microsorium and "nanjenshan". Plants such as Blyxa and HC flowing over the rocks. Hairgrass, Hydrocotyl and Glosso peeking through carpets of Xmas Moss and riccia gradually making way to a clearing of sand and gravel in the front.

I find it quite hard to explain how I visualise the final aquascape to be like, but I have been greatly inspired to do this scape by Steven Chong's "Summer Mountains" and Justin Law's "Summer Dance".

I bought some plants from greenline and ebay today, hence some of the mentions above. Among them, Blyxa japonica, "nanjenshan", glosso, xmas moss and riccia.

I hope that helps you to understand more how I visualise this aquascape.

Tom


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

@ zQ - I was looking to get some Rotala "green" today, but didn't in the end as I found someone with "nanjenshan". I might re-think that decision at some stage and see how it goes for now.
I do have some hair-algae parvula and vivipara from my Iwagumi but I am hesitent in adding all the algae to this tank.

Tom


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## zQ. (Dec 15, 2006)

Just let it go with H2o2,h2o2 number one ! :heh: J/K


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

lol

I like the way the moss and plants are growing over the rocks in this picture and I might try and recreate this look with the xmas moss and HC.

http://www.friedmanarchives.com/British Columbia/images/Rocks on Forest Floor 8x10 300 dpi.jpg

Tom


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

All done now apart from the door.....guess why........I ran out of paint again, right on the last corner!!!!

I'm pretty pleased with it anyways.










I'll update on the planting of the tank in a bit when it all clears up. Aquasoil really clouds the water, especially if you move the tank while still with water in!!

Tom


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Recieved my plants from greenline this morning (Blyxa japonica, Glossostigma elatinoides and "x-mas moss")
I wasn't overly thrilled by the quality of the yellow glosso, and I don't think I got xmas moss, it looks more like a fontalis and certainly doesn't look xmas tree shaped with the "stems" going into a point if you know what I mean. I also found more than one species entangled in it. It looks more like greeny-brown string, so I'm not sure what I got there. Blyxa was ok-ish though, and I got 3 when I ordered one

The tank has cleared a bit too now, probably due to the 3 filters, and I've still got a bit of Riccia to come yet from eBay that should be here tomorrow.

I'm really starting to like the look of this layout now as it's coming together. I jus't wish I'd done the "gate" a bit more off centre, probably towards the right. The wood is finally starting to behave too, so some of the pebbles that were holding the it down have been removed.

Oh, and a pic:









Any empty space in there now minus the path and sand at the front will be Riccia once it arrives. By far my favourite plant in here now though is the Hydrocotyl, as it seems to fit into the idea of the forest floor quite well IMO. I might have it growing through the riccia too when it arrives.

Might as well include water quality too, just for the record:
pH 6.8
KH 4
GH 4

Thats all for now,

Tom


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## LindaC (Nov 7, 2005)

I really like the way your tank is coming along, it looks great!


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Thanks Linda

I think I might end up changing the sand to a whiter course sand, preferably relatively ungraded for a more natural feel, as long as it is whiter. Then I think I'll have some sprinkles of darker small gravel around some points of the rocks. 

Might go get that tomorrow.

Tom


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## zQ. (Dec 15, 2006)

Ohh,that sand look pretty good,no need to change,brighter sand always got problem with algea and will be over-exposure when you take picture.


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Thanks for that info zQ., I never thought about over exposing but I can see it'd be a problem. I'll still be getting the darker gravel though as the rocks seem a bit abrupt at the minute. 

Tom


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## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

that looks really nice , reminds me more of summer than autum but meh
i love the hydrocotly, its definitely going in my new scape


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

It's only an autumn scape becuase I was originally going start it in august and run it until christmas-time ish, it wasn't a reference to the type of scape  

Tom


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Only problem with smalled tanks, is the equipment inside seems to over power them. If you can hide the CO2 diffuser in the back it would be much better. When I look the first thing I see is the suction cups holding the diffuser and the Co2 line, then ofcourse the heater which would be better to the back left behind the tall plants.

Over all the layout is great though, sorry to hear that the plants didn't come as expected.
I agree though, keep the sand the way it is. The lighter white stuff is just trouble when anything goes wrong.

Why the 3 filters, just to clear it up. With ADA the easiest way is just daily water changes for the first week. Every 2 days for the second week, then once a week after that. Just need the one filter.

Thomas


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

The only problem with hiding the equipment, especially the diffuser, behind plants is that the flow will not reach the CO2 and I will get much less dissolved in the water. I agree it does look bad though. 

As for the heater, I managed to squeeze it into the back left, but it is tight with the high substrate!

I wanted it clear as quick as possible really, and I only have the one internal filter running now.

Thanks for the suggestions

Tom


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## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

have you thought of upgrading this to an external filter? then you could plumb heater co2 ect inline and have nothing in the tank!


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Couldn't you just put the co2 to the back right, behind the driftwood, there appears to be space, and put the power head filter at the back left, that way both would disapear.


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Felix - Yeah I do want to get an external eventually. Anyone know about the Eden 501 filter on aquaessentials.co.uk for £40? And can I attach lily pipes to it? Oh and wilte I'm talking about lily pipes, where can I get the "mini" inflow and outflow from ADA? aquaessentials don't seem to do them. Then all I need to do is raise £250 for that lot!!

Thomes - the Mayaca is right up against the back of the tank, so unfortunately the heater now takes up the only open space in the back.

Tom


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## jeffboyarrdee (Jun 9, 2007)

i really like your tank! and that stand is really cool! cant wait to see what it looks like when it grows out!


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Thanks Jeff. 

Quick question to someone...... when can I do the first trim? I know I'm supposed to wait for the plants to settle in first and build up some strength, but how long should I wait? I am mainly referring to the Myacca and the D. diandra stems

Tom


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

I am using the Eden 501 on a 5 Gallon Turtle tank and before that on a 10 Gallon planted tank. Works great, very quiet. Not sure if ADA pipes fit on it though as I don't have them, The tube size of the Eden 501 is smaller then the Eheim 2215 but I am sure it can be adapted.

Expensive pipes though!!


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Tell me about it lol, £100 each for the lilys!

How do you find the eden's inflow/outflow for aesthetics? Are they easily hidden?

Tom


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Actually I will be using the flo Pipes as soon as the arrive. 45 USD for the set is a lot better then the ADA ones, and then if anything happens to them I won't feel as bad. Accidents happen in tanks.

























ADA AS I can handle the price of, but when it comes to a lot of the other products, they just seem too much to me, as there are always "knock offs" that do as well.


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Especially the trimming equipment and tweesers! Aquasoil isn't too badly priced IMO. Everything seems a lot more expensive over here in the UK

Those Flo Pipes look like a good Idea. They're a tad too big in my tank, as the intake is taller than the tank although I suppose it could be moved up. 
Tom


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

That is what I feel and I am in Taiwan, very close to Japan!!
Plants here are cheap and usually good variety though. ADA soil is not as popular in the last year or so here as theer are many other options that people have less problems of algae outbreak with and yet the plants grow great and the PH is low for 1/4 of the price or so.

I will be using another Japanese brand called Soil Pro Professional Grade Substrate myself.

Yes the intake is too long for me as well. I have considered asking a glassmaker to shorten them.


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## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

> Felix - Yeah I do want to get an external eventually. Anyone know about the Eden 501 filter on aquaessentials.co.uk for £40? And can I attach lily pipes to it? Oh and wilte I'm talking about lily pipes, where can I get the "mini" inflow and outflow from ADA? aquaessentials don't seem to do them. Then all I need to do is raise £250 for that lot!!


the eden filters are great, just about silent we use them for all the display tanks in my shop and have never had any problems, the input/out-put on them is pretty good aswell and can easily be modified to be a lily pipe


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Might look into one of them then.

Right well the riccia arrived this morning, but I won't take any photos untill this evening as the refelctions would be too bad. I've basically just filled in any unplanted areas minus the sand at the front. I've put bits under some of the Hydrocotyl too, so once it's grown in it should appear to be growing through the riccia.

I also got my ferts for this tank in the post too. I've now got Brighty K for use in the first 3 weeks, then Step 1 and Brighty Special Lights for use after that. 

Now I'm just debating whether I should have put moss on the other branches as they may look a bit bare without it. Anyone got any opinions on this?


Tom


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Right, picture time. Not all that much to see really, as all the riccia is just tied to stones, but you can probably get a reasonable idea of how it should all look grown in.










Tom


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## Afroturf (Apr 15, 2004)

Tom the scape looks very good, love the rock layout and the plants used but i'm not yet convinced about the wood they look a little out of place. Maybe it just need time for the plants to fill in around them and it will look better. looking forward to seeing it progress over the next few weeks.


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Thanks Afroturf. How do you mean the wood looks out of place? What would you do differently i.e. cover them with moss/remove or replace them?

Tom


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## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

I think you definately need to change the wood on the left side
otherwise its looking really nice!


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## Afroturf (Apr 15, 2004)

I mean that comparied to the rest of the scape which looks very natural, like you may find in a river/pond etc the wood looks as though have been placed there by man.

Adding moss would help, but it think they will look better when the plants have filled in around them, i wouldn't remove them unless you were unhappy with them.


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

I'll have a play round with the wood tomorrow then to see if I can make it look more natural, but TBH I quite like it and there's not much can be done other than tweaks now that it's all planted, without totally messing up the aquasoil. I can see where you're coming from though and I'll let you know tomorrow or sometime if I've found a better position for the branches.

My original intentions were to have the branches towering over the clearing at the front and over the path bit, which they do but you're both probably right in that they could look more effective.

I've got some xmas moss coming on tuesday probably so that might get tied to some of the branches. I'm thinking if I did that I'd only have it around the lower parts, as I don't want the wood totally covered, and I don't want it to look top heavy as it were.

Tom


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Well the xmas moss came from Greenline today! I got absolutely tonnes more than I ordered in the first place, plus some on a stick. Not bad 

I've just tied it round most of the branches that I could get to. 
-- Note to self, never set up the tank before adding moss!!! Especially with
Aquasoil, it's a nightmare!!! 

So once again I have a cloudy tank, but at least it doesn't look so bare now. I'm hoping it should give the tank that old, untamed forest look I was going for in the first place. I just don't think bare wood could give that feeling, as it would be naturally be covered in climbing plants anyways.

I've been constantly tweaking the wood's postitioning too over the last couple of days, and I'm not convinced by the right-hand side yet. It'll get there in the end though.

Pictures to come later when it's cleared again 

Tom


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Picture update:



















Had a massive trim of the stem plants, and added the moss as I said earlier. There's a new "root" on the left hand side too.

Tom


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## patrick76 (May 21, 2007)

What fish are you going to have?


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## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

Thats looking really nice now, the moss definately improved it!
i agree the right wood still needs some work
could you take a picture without the equipment in? and also next to something like a coke can so we can get an idea of the scale


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

I'm not sure yet, but I'm hoping for something not overly colourful like cardinals, but maybe Sundadanio axelrodi if I can get hold of any. I'd quite like some emerald eye rasbora if I can't get the axelrodi.

I'll be getting some Ottos and Amano shrimp (maybe cherries, again if I can find any) for the algae in the next couple of weeks.

Tom


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Felix I'll get some pics tomorrow


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Right, 2 no-equipment pics, and one for scale:




























I'm still not totally happy with the branches on the right hand side, something's not quite right. I'm sure with time I'll keep "playing" until I'm happy with it though.

Tom


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## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

awww sweet looks so much bigger than it is








i just drew that in quickly i think it makes it look more natural and could be what is missing in the scape


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

That actually would look good with that extra piece, thanks for the suggestion. Now just to get another branch to sink!
Should I remove the skinny branch behind it do you reckon?

Tom


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## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

nope i dont think so, have you ever thought of adding a bolbitis? you could tie it onto the new bit of wood?


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Hows that for a near enough match??!! lol

Won't bolbitis get too big for this tank? I like the look of it, but I think it might take over a bit.

Tom


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

Hi Tom, I am just discovering your work, its quite impressive! This tank is maturing very nicely


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## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

sweet, looks much better!
we should definately scape a tank together someday. maybe a WK lol


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## oni (Jun 22, 2007)

Really a very good combo of wood and stone I have seen. Felix I think you have great eyes! and good arrangements Tom, thanks for sharing.


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Thanks Robert, Felix and Oni.

Felix thats a great Idea lol. Hows the "wabi start" coming on?

Tom


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## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

both WK-Start and WK-Sun are complete
start is a container plus fertilised substrate
sun is a LED array that attaches onto the side and provides great light from all sides, powered only by usb! (battery version is also available)

I am also working on a WK-Sun pro were you can adjust lighting intensity and color temperature to suit your needs, altough it will need lots of work


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## Afroturf (Apr 15, 2004)

Tom that looks great, a great improvement, i wouldn't bother with bolbitis i don't think the scape needs any thing else plus it would get to big for the scape.


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Couple of Pics - I think it has started to get the foresty look now. Really cant wait for the moss and riccia to take off!



















I'm also starting to get some of what I think must be BBA algae now, so hopefully I can find some Amano's and Ottos to add soon.

Tom


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## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

cool pics tom, coming along nicely
http://www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk/shops_fish.asp?id=6845&fishType=tropical
that should help you find amanos and ottos respectively
http://www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk/shops_fish.asp?id=2117&fishType=tropical


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Thanks Felix. I'll have to see If I can get to Wildwoods at some point. I did my College work experience there a month or two ago, so maybe I can get a deal. Trouble is it's 60 miles away and I rely on parents for transport!! None of my locals are on TFF unfortunately so I might have to do some ringing around.

Tom


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## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

yeh it was i nightare trying to find ottos for me aswell
untill i got a job at my lfs lol
now i get amazing discounts and sometimes free tanks they dont want lol
i just need to work for 4 more days and i can afford a reef nano


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

I've added my Otto from the 3gal now, and an Amano shrimp but it decided to "go for a walk" so he's no more unfortunately. I might add my other 3 Amano's at some point. The BBA is really getting going now so I'll have to do something. It's mainly in the moss which is annoying. I've started to add a small bit of step 1 and brighty spec. lights now, at about 3 drops every other day and upped the CO2 to about 3 bubbles every 2 secs. Riccia isn't pearling though but the Hydrocotyl and moss are. 

Whats the best algae eater for BBA??

Tom


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Siamese Algae eaters are the only ones which eat it. But make sure they are SAE not Chinese Algae Eaters. 
BBA is a real pain, and usually a result of Co2 not being consistant. Though there are a few varieties of BBA. Some are said to be caused y poor circulation, though in my experience BBA happens closest to my rainbar, and not plants far away, so I think I have the other variety.
Some say once it is in a tank, it is always there, you can just slow it down to apoint where you don't notice, other says you can get rid of it with Blackouts and Excell.


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Shame the tank is too small for an SAE. I have been trying to adjust the CO2 to get better diffusion, so that sounds like it could be a likely cause. It shouldn't be a problem with circulation. I could have a go with excell I suppose. 

Thanks, 

Tom


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## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

the sae should be fine for about a week, and by then it will have eaten the bba anyway so i say put one in, also get a light timer and set it to have 1 hour off for every 4 hours on (this wont affect the plants but will hurt the algae)


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Thats a good idea because my dad needs some SAEs so I could pinch one for a bit  . 

I do have a light timer, and it's currently set to 8.00-11.00, 14.00-18.00, and 19.00-21.00. CO2 runs from 7.30-21.00 

9 Hours of light, quite random timing as its just when I'd like to be looking at it. I don't think I should reduce it any more really. I will try to get an SAE and see if it does the job, but that will have to wait until after the holiday (going to the French Alps for a week on tuesday in the rain and clouds!!). 

Tom


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## teacherthomas (Jul 14, 2006)

Typically you don't have light peroids less then 4 hours, it is thought that plants take about 4 hours to adjust to the level of light, and then are slow to notice when light has gone and continue to photosynthesis. Algae is quick to notice light and quick to notice when light is gone, that is why people use the "rest period" ever 4 hours. Algea production goes on, off, on, off. But plants go on and stay on as long as the rest peroid is less then 2 hours (the amount of time thought needed for plants to notice the light is gone)

Best would be if you could do something like this
10:30~15:00, and 16.30-21.00. (9 hours still and fits into your schedule for viewing)
CO2 runs from 9.30-20.00 (comes on a hour before hand and goes off an hour before lights off so it can be used. That way the CO2 level can be higher as you know it is being used by the plants, and will reduce in the last 1 hour as the plants use it up and no worries about C02 too high in the light out peroid)


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## JamesC (Jul 26, 2005)

I've really enjoyed reading your thread Tom and love this scape. It has really inspired me to start trying my hand at scaping rather than just being a 'plant grower'.

James


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## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

update please :{


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

I'm afraid there probably won't be a real update until I get back from the Alps on the 18th, but I might be able to take a pic later today or tomorrow. 

Tom


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Right well I'm back, so here's an updated picture:










Just given it a trim now, just on a bit of the moss to try and encourage more growth and tamed the riccia a bit too.

The stem growth doesn't look as thick in the photo as it looks here, but I'll keep trimming so it bushes out more. I've put some more diandra on the right hand side to fill the gaps a bit, but I'll keep it low. The diandra on the left will eventually reach to just below the surface.

I can't seem to keep the glosso low in this tank. The further towards the back of the tank it is, the higher it seems to grow. I'll have to keep trimming and replanting it as it doesn't seem to be going sideways, just upways.

I came back from holiday to quite a bit of what I think is BBA, stringing mainly over the moss and waving in the current. It's quite easy to remove though with a toothbrush.

Tom


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## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

looks great tom, just dont be brushing your teeth with that cynobacteria
the fore-mid ground is looking absolutely gorgeous!!! especially on the left side! I think you should add some more riccia from a trim to the right hand side, because it gives such a nice contrast to that cool moss covered root thing on the right.

However I think the background looks a bit washed out, and i know why, its the plant. my reccomendation is to find a tropica stockist and get some hemianthus micranthemoides / micranthemum micranthemoides, combined with some rotala indica this will look like one of amanos!

for the algae change 50% then leave the lights off for a day and close the curtains

loookin great keep it up


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## hedson_25 (Sep 20, 2005)

looks greate!


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Thanks.

Felix, here is how I'm hoping it will turn out (light green is diandra and dark green is microsorium "narrow"):










Well thats the plan anyway, if the java decides it might like to grow. The diandra at the back left and infront of the Mayacca on the right should thicken it up a bit. Your right it looks thin now though.

Couple more pics:


















Tom


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## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

yeh i see were your goin, but imo the diandra looks to yellowy for aquascaping, crazy pearling though
do you have a java fern in there? is it really small?


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Yeah theres a java fern in there. The leaves are about an inch and not really growing.

Got 12 Emerald Eye Rasbora today, along with some cherry shrimp, ottos and a couple of SAE borrowed from the parents.

Tom


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## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

sweet! post some pics when they are in


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## gas (Jul 27, 2006)

Looks good. The more I see ur tank The more I like it !
Very pretty simple and beautiful. (At the beginning I wasn't convinced that the hardscape will work good but I was wrong.)
The diantra is a really pretty plant and it'll give a touch of color in the tank.
I also love the hydrocotyle that feel very nice in there and faaling down the rock , enjoying to see that !


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Another shot, just after a trim. I haven't trimmed any of the Diandra as I want it to grow a bit more first so it can make a statement. I am really pleased with the recent progress, so here is another shot, 40 days into the setup:










I am still clearing out BBA/diatoms every couple of days but it is manageable with my trusty toothbrush!!

Tom


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## arowanaman (Jun 14, 2006)

Ah sweet Trimless/seamless tank I wish I could find a glass tank like that without paying the prices for the ADA version. The ADA 20 gallon seamless tank is $2,500.00 U.S.:shock:


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## arowanaman (Jun 14, 2006)

sorry distracted by the exterior of your display. your layout and plant choice is very good to some of those plants get very large, are you having any issues?


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## zQ. (Dec 15, 2006)

Love this tank,cuz of its cleaniness and plants choice.
@ Arowana : If i didnt wrong,a 20gal (i mean the 60p) of ADA is just about 200-300$ where did u buy it for 2500$ ? 
And at my place,a rimless tank wit clear silicon is just 15$ for a 60P  But certainly,the glass is not very clear as ADA's.


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Ouch, and I thought ADA's normal tank range was overpriced lol. The tank is an AquaOne Mirage 40cm BTW, £25 I paid.

Were you referring to the Microsorium and the Crypt? I doubt the microsorium will ever become a problem for the time this tank will be running, as the leaves are still only an inch long, but the Crypt might have to be kept in shape. I'd quite like it's leaves to trail over the surface a bit though, in between the Mayacca.

Thanks for your input,

Tom


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## Maxxxo (Mar 19, 2007)

Super  

I would ask snap without equipment


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Maybe tomorrow if I get time


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

As promised:










Tom


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## Yoshi (Apr 7, 2007)

Wow, the tank is looking spectacular!


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## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

LOVE IT looks so nice! looks massive aswell untill u spot the otto


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## cassiusclay (Feb 19, 2007)

wow thats an awesome tank man looks HUGE for really being a smaller tank


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## arowanaman (Jun 14, 2006)

zQ. said:


> Love this tank,cuz of its cleaniness and plants choice.
> @ Arowana : If i didnt wrong,a 20gal (i mean the 60p) of ADA is just about 200-300$ where did u buy it for 2500$ ?
> And at my place,a rimless tank wit clear silicon is just 15$ for a 60P  But certainly,the glass is not very clear as ADA's.


 I am talking about the ADA tanks that are fused glass that do not use silicone at all just ultra clear glass fused together, not the 60P.

by the way the tank looks really sweet without the equipment in it great photography.


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Thank you guys 

Tom


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## hedson_25 (Sep 20, 2005)

where did you got these rocks?
i went yesterday to playa linda to pick some driftwood there is tons of it an i found many similar to those you are using in this ...scape


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

My rocks were from Aqua Jardin, a shop in the south of England (maybe Hampshire?? not sure exactly lol) 

Tom


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Super job, Tom. Well done indeed.

The hardscape is great, some of the nicest I've seen from the UK...


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Thanks George, that means a lot 

Tom


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## mellowvision (Jun 18, 2007)

nice tank!


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

A photo from today, trying out a back-lit pillow case as the background. What do you think? White or Blue?

Soooo close to finishing now, can't wait to get the final pics and send them to PFK and AGA. I'm so pleased with it


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Couple of better shots:



















Tom


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

I think a backlit white/grey/blue background may look better. The purple hue looks a little too unatural to my eye.


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## Yoshi (Apr 7, 2007)

Yea, a grey background would be awesome


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## Leonard (Mar 4, 2007)

I like this blue background better, it matches colour of the stones. Fresh.
Plants looks healtier! 

This are more and more looking like Steven's tank I belive


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Tried a blue-grey background and I aggree, I think it looks much nicer.



















Another pic I liked:


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## mellowvision (Jun 18, 2007)

looks really nice.


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Thanks  I need to do another trim on the stem plants soon, as they are draping over the surface, so I'll try and get another pic before I get my hedgetrimmer out 

Tom


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## warr40 (Aug 16, 2005)

very nice scape i like ur driftwood alot


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## slickwillislim (Oct 11, 2005)

Great use of rock and wood together. I also like the open space in the foreground and the background. 

Well done. I hope you do well in both contests.


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Thanks 

I've now entered the PFK contest with those last 3 shots, even though I wasn't completely happy with them. Still time to get some better ones for the AGA, just waiting on the background to regrow.

A couple more shots:


















Tom


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

Good luck with the PFK comp Tom, should be highly placed IMHO! Can't imagine too many tanks this good in their competition!


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## runwithit (Aug 1, 2007)

your guys' talent is so much farthur than where i can hope to be. the tank looks nice.


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Thanks Ed. I've entered the Junior (<17) catagory so we'll see how it goes. 

runwithit - keep working at it, and with each experience you'll have a better understanding of how it all works. I agree with Steven Chong I think it was, that said talent is only part of it, and the rest is up to hard work and researching stuff. 

The main problem I'm having in finishing off this tank is that the foreground and backround grow at different rates and balancing that to get them both looking good for the pictures is puzzling me at the moment - I've got a week to do it before I go back to college 

Tom


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## ed seeley (Dec 1, 2006)

messy_da_legend said:


> Thanks Ed. I've entered the Junior (<17) catagory so we'll see how it goes.
> 
> Tom


Well that's just sickening mate. I've just turned 30 () and can't get any tank looking half that good!!! Expecting big things from you in the competition mate! (I hope I haven't just put the "commentators curse" on you there!)


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

I was just wondering about my glosso. It always seems to grow straight up, even before it was shaded by the riccia/moss. Is it a light issue, or CO2/ferts? I have 24w light over 25 litres. I want to have a proper glosso carpet in my next tank and need to know if I'll have to up the lighting, or CO2 or whatever.


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

Heh, now I'M feeing intimidated by how I'll do in the AGA lol. Since I'll have to compete against this tank in the small category . . . O.O

And on top of that, looked at the ADA results and Karen Randal didn't rate my work too well. *sigh* Though Amano did give me one my best scores.

*Anyway, this tank is just sick dude, sick. Beautiful work. *


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## FelixAvery (Mar 29, 2007)

try adding tourmaline B/c under the substrate in your next tank, it grows glosso really well!


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

lol Steven I'm sure your tank will do very well. Your Summer Mountians is one of my all-time favourites and an inspiration for this tank  Are you doing another 60cm this year or have you got to go smaller?
Thanks dude 

Cheers for the tip Felix, I'll have a go next time.

Tom


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Well these might have to be the final shots for AGA, as I'm moving back to college tomorrow after lunch. Not ideal pics, but they'll do.



















Tom


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## cassiusclay (Feb 19, 2007)

beautiful tank man full,lush,algae free from what i can see and best of all pleasing to look at.if you lived with me id be quite upset you were tearing it down and leaving :-D


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

thanks dude-- also I just finished setting up the equipment for my 60cm tank at the school library. 

BTW I'd try and get a photo with the sand perfectly even. The dips in it now are somewhat distracting, and are a completely fixable detail that losing points for will just make you feel pissed with yourself.


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## UG Dude! (Apr 12, 2007)

Beautiful tank... :clap2:


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## gf225 (Mar 26, 2005)

Tom, you are a credit to the UK aquascaping scene. Thanks.


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

I've got another shot now with the level substrate, thanks for pointing that out! I won't post another photo as it looks pretty much the same as the last one 

Tom


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## jARDINI (Sep 2, 2007)

wow thats real nice mayaca is by far my favorite plant


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Just got the results of the PFK contest back, and I won the under 17s catagory so thats great!!  Looks like there were some great entries too!

Just need to wait for the AGA results now, although theres bound to be more competition as it's not limited to age! 

Tom


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## Jessie (Apr 23, 2007)

Congratulations Tom!! Excellent work! I'm sure you'll place well in AGA also -- this is a really crisp and well thought-out tank.


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

Congrats on the win at PFK Tom! 

When it comes to AGA though, I don't think George Farmer, Filipe Oliviera, me, or the others are gonna give up so easy.  Good luck!


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## messy_da_legend (Feb 18, 2006)

Thanks 

lol fighting talk Steven!! I'd be happy just to get a respectable score, let alone compete with the pro's!! 

Tom


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