# question about roots



## tropicpr (May 26, 2013)

Hello,
About a month and a half ago took down my 40g aquarium with eco complete and converted it to a dirt tank. This tank was setup six years ago and plant growth was slow since it was low tech. The reason to convert it to dirt was rather experimental. I used part of the eco complete to cap the dirt. Miracle grow garden soil was used. The soil was sifted to remove the bigger pieces of wood, there were found small chunks of what appeared to be clay, those were returned to the soil. The soil was then wetted for about two weeks. On 4/12 the tank was set up with dirt. Since I had the filter for this tank on line all the time there was no need to cycle the tank. The tank was planted, filled and the fish returned to it all at the same time. So far all the fish are accounted for. There are no signs of ammonia or nitrites in the water column. Nitrates are steady at 10ppm, phosphates at 2ppm or less, Ph 7.0 to 7.2 and the water is rather hard. I have planted E. oriental, E. red melon, E. indian red, C. Wentii bronze, H. Corymbosa Kompakt, L. Brasilensis, Vallisneria Americana and C. Balansae. All the plants are rather small though are growing rather well considering the amount of time since planting. The Vallisneria are growing surprisingly well, actually, I was never able to grow Vallisnerias like they are growing now. Two days ago I removed some E. Tenellus and a crypt I am not able to identify and found some of the roots to be dark black. The plants were growing well; I just removed them to plant others. I have thought there may probably be accumulation of Hydrogen sulfide in the substrate and although there is a lot of bubbling from it no strange smells have been detected. I poke the substrate between days to help remove the gas bubbles. The fish, as mentioned before are doing well and the plants are growing. I am worried there could be something wrong with the dirt causing the roots to turn black as they are. It seems as if the roots were burnt. Is this something usual or should I be worried.


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## SBS (Feb 26, 2013)

How deep is your substrate?
The black roots sound like hydrogen sulfide problem.


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## KrisAmbrose (Oct 1, 2012)

Could be hydrogen sulfide, or... I've noticed plant roots look black in miracle gro before simply from being stained by the soil. Try scratching the black off and see if that's it.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

OK, the fish are healthy, the plants are growing, and the bubbles do not smell bad, right? The most common cause of bubbling substrate in a new Walstad tank is CO2 from decomposition of organic matter in the soil. As long as the bubbles don't smell bad and all the flora and fauna are healthy, don't worry.


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## tropicpr (May 26, 2013)

The substrate is 1.5 inches of soil and 1.5 inches of ecocomplete.

I tried to remove most of the organic matter from the soil but must agree to the fact that most of the soil is organic since the label indicates organic soil. I was worried since its been more than a month and the substrate continues to bubble pretty good I should say. I've just removed a C. Wentii bronze to find that although the root system have grown considerably, the plant is small for the size of the root system. There are no signs of any defiencies with the exception of the little or slow growth of the wetiis. As I indicate before the Vallisnerias are growing very well.
In terms of vacuumming the substrate, I have done so lightly and only on the surface. By the way, the wentii I've just removed had roots where there were parts dark black but further down the same root was normal. Since this is my first dirt tank I am trying to keep an eye on all the angles that developed with the purpose of leraning as I go. I am also adding CO2 in the form of excel about 7.5ml every other day and performing 25% water changes every other week. The water is tan with tannins which do not bother me or the fish.


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## SBS (Feb 26, 2013)

Excel has a life of about 12 hours, or less than 24 hrs for sure. Adding it every other day is not good, it needs to be dosed daily. Once you add excel, it's better to do weekly water changes as you'll run into problems with fish and plants.

Also, because recently i planted many house plants emersed and I had to take them out of their soil pots and wash the roots, I noticed they did have a black coating as KrisAmbrose suggested. Maybe depending on what you see that's normal.
In a nutritient rich soil one would think the roots would grow bigger too...


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

A soil layer 1.5" deep is right at the maximum. I prefer 1", especially with fresh MGOC. Make no mistake, MGOC is 100% organic matter and quite high in nutrients. It really benefits from some treatment before use in aquaria. You can read about this in the sticky, "Suitable soils for the Walstad method".


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## tropicpr (May 26, 2013)

I did not know the use of excel required regular water changes and that it should be used daily if used. It seems if the substrate is releasing CO2 then the use of excel may not be necessary. How much you guys think CO2 may increase in the water column while it’s being released by the substrate. I my case I have been monitoring Ph and it has remain stable so far.

Is good reasoning SBS the in nutrient rich soil roots would tend to grow bigger, though I would think also that the plant itself and not just the roots will respond to the high nutrients of the soil unless something is missing, does this sound right?

"It really benefits from some treatment before use in aquaria." Michael, what do you mean by "treating the soil"?
I will read the sticky you are suggesting.
How long will the soil continue to bubble?
BTW, the roots of the plants were not black when planted. Most of the plants were already planted in the tank before I decided to turn it to dirt. Could the high concentration of nutrients causing so type of shock to the roots?


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## cah925 (Jun 23, 2007)

I used topsoil rather than Miracle Grow. My soil bubbled constantly for about 2 months with no smell. It has settled down a lot, but I still get the occasional bubble from the soil. 
Also, when I first planted, I had several plants melt right under the soil line. I assumed it was from a heavy release of ammonia or other nutrients, but I'm not entirely sure.


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## tropicpr (May 26, 2013)

I have been poking the substrate with a thin stick to remove the bubbles. Noticed particularly underneath the Crypts, a lot of bubbles accumulate. Now since I've been removing the accumulation of bubbles the plants seem to have taken on growing. Of course I cannot prove is because the bubbles are being removed and have to think that the plants are starting to benefit from the nutrients contained in the soil, or in other words are finally adjusting to the soil.

Is it possible the plants are provoking the accumulation of bubbles in the substrate by oxygenating it through their roots? 

On the other side of the coin, I have not had any problems with any type of algae since the tank was set up on 4/12. I will find out how to post pictures to post at least two.


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## Mezuri (Dec 17, 2012)

Upload your photos to photo bucket and paste the IMG link in your reply (photobucket is a free image host) sign up and upload!


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## tropicpr (May 26, 2013)

Thanks Mezuri!
This is the recently set up dirt tank, appreciate opinions.





The last pic is of a 20 gallon high tank set up six years ago. this tank is fertilized through substrate and water column. The substrate is nothing but fine gravel mixed with laterite. The plants must be fertilized twice a week. There is no CO2 injection but Excel is added every other day.



Light is an issue since both are exposed to sunlight and the pictures had to be taken in a manner to reduce glare. I will try to take some pictures at night as soon as I get a chance. Must go to work now.


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## atc84 (May 18, 2013)

very pretty tanks! You may need need more plants, idk, i'm new to this


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## tropicpr (May 26, 2013)

A sort of update, so far the plants seem to be growing more especially the H. Corymbosa of which I have planted four plants so far. Most say that the submerge leaves are really nice brilliant green in color and creates a good contrast in the tank. I have acquired the book Encyclopedia of Aquarium Plants by Peter Hiscock. Have just browsed through, but the intention is to read it and learn everything I can from it. Appreciate any thoughts in reference to the book.
Well, there is no algae in the dirt tank that could be considered a problem, just very small patches of green algae which the snails a prompt to handle. All the fish are doing well and it seems the dirt is finally settling down. The plants are growing noticeably. I will be doing some changes in terms of the C. Wentiis. At least two grown plants are coming my way and will be planted in place of the wentiis that have resisted to grow for whatever reason I have not been able to discover. One detail I must mention about the H. Corymbosa is that since I have read the plant is a potassium vacuum cleaner, I am dosing 35ml of potassium every other day. I am trying to prevent a potassium imbalance that affects the other plants especially the Vallisnerias and the swords. This may be a factor causing the H. Corymbosas to be growing so well. By the way; the oriental swords are producing plantlets but have also resisted to grow vertically. I continue to feel there is a need for more nitrogen and have thought if injection of NPK in the substrate (dirt) may become necessary.
Any thoughts and suggestions are appreciated.


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## tropicpr (May 26, 2013)

Hey! I found the big Vallisneria with three flower spikes this morning while performing a 10% water change. Since this is a first for me, I feel pretty proud! I will post more pictures as this develops.



Is there anything I should know or need to do in order to prevent any mistakes that could prevent this plant to complete this process?


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