# Pogostemon Helferi, also known as Downoi?



## Erirku (Oct 5, 2004)

Just was wondering what their conditions are like. 
1)Do they like alot of light? Or it doesn't matter!
2)What is the method of propogation? Do you just cut it off like a stem plant, and put the top in the ground?
And Thanks to the person who gave me some  (you know who you are, and I am really grateful)


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## fishfry (Apr 15, 2004)

It is pretty easy to grow it seems. There are two methods of propagation. 

1. When the plant gets tall enough you can cut off the top and replant it, leaving the bottom half to grow new plantlets. 

2. You can let little plants grow out of the bottom every so often and just break them off.

I think average to bright light is good. I have heard it grows best in harder water, but I am not having any problems in my soft water. 

Hope that helps!


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## Aaron (Feb 12, 2004)

It is a pretty tough plant, relative to what was initially written about it. In several cases, it was said that this plant could not be shipped, touched with bare hands, washed under a faucet etc. cause it would just melt away. I have yet to see a Downoi melt away, and as far as I know, every single plant that I've sent through the mail has arrived fine. Even the bunch that took the scenic week and a half trip to Maryland. 

I have found it will grow in many conditions, as long as it has a steady supply of ferts. In moderate to low light tanks, they seem to grow nicer leaves (larger and a little dentate)

As for propagation, I like to just trim off sideshoots as they come out. I wait until the shoots have at least 2 nodes with aerial roots before I trim them off. It makes it easier to plant. IMO Its growth pattern is very much like Lobelia cardinalis.

The annoying thing about this plant is that its leaves are susceptible to algaes in the same manner as anubias etc. the problem is that manual removal of the algae is pretty much impossible as the leaves are very brittle and delicate and will crack under the slightest pressure.

BTW, the other plant is called Elatine triandra


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## Erirku (Oct 5, 2004)

Thanks alot for the replys. 
Well it has occured to me that fertilizing has given me a bad outbreak of brown algae and with a more sufficient lighting system, there is still more brown algae growing, Maybe I have a cyano bacterium brown algae species and nothing to do with the lights? As far as fetrz, I'll do that when I get a co2 measurer, is it best to have co2 at 25-30ppms in a 15G, with a 55w on a 15G? Does really stop algae if the co2 is at that high? Thanks APC members.


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## Praxx42 (Mar 4, 2005)

I'm a little late to this particular party, but I was wondering if anyone could tell me about what the growth rate of healthy downoi is? I've had one tiny clipped bottom under high light and Excel (moving to CO2 early next month) for almost 5 weeks now, and it has vigorous root growth and regular upward growth, but no side shoots, air roots, etc.

?


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

I got some of this from Aaron in a trade a while ago. If you want side shoots galore keep the ferts up and float a piece of it. It does seem to prefer hard water. I put it in flora base and it started to melt. In flourite it did fine so it may be that it prefers water that is not too acidic.


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## Aaron (Feb 12, 2004)

My Downoi semm to be doing fine in ADA aquasoil. No signs of melting and its been 3 weeks. The plants seems to be branching a lot more than I'm used to though.
In one of my previous tanks, the Downoi grew like a true stem plant and I think it was due to a heavy dosing regime of Macros. It would actually break the surface in my 15gal in a couple of weeks.








I think I like it better when it stays low.

So to answer your question Praxx, Downoi grows at a pace where it should double every two weeks.


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## lorba (Feb 4, 2004)

One interesting way to grow downoi is to tie it to rocks and see the roots cling and crawl. Just be sure you fertilize the water as usual.


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## cousinkenni (Jan 24, 2005)

lorba said:


> One interesting way to grow downoi is to tie it to rocks and see the roots cling and crawl. Just be sure you fertilize the water as usual.


Funny you say that. I was looking at my tank this morning and saw my downoi's roots growing over a piece of driftwood. It's roots look pretty thick and might be able to attach given some time.

This gave me the idea to replace my petite nana with downoi on the driftwood.

Maybe I will try it

Ken


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## amber2461 (Jun 15, 2004)

Hey Aaron

Wow, your Downoi are down right I-M-P-R-E-S-S-I-V-E !!!!

Niiiiiiice indeed ... thanks for sharing that picture .... ~droooooolllllzzzzz~ Can't even find them here, let alone buy them ...

Cheers


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## victri (Mar 18, 2004)

They melt easily in my ADA Aquasoil tank. Highly suspect the cause to be the soft water here. Out the tap and into the tank, it's 1KH and 3-4GH. They do better when I raise the KH and GH. I'm experimenting to find out which has more of an effect, KH or GH.

Aaron, what's the PH, KH and GH in your Aquasoil tank like?

(ps: are you the Aaron I know?)


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## Praxx42 (Mar 4, 2005)

Aaron said:


> My Downoi semm to be doing fine in ADA aquasoil. No signs of melting and its been 3 weeks. The plants seems to be branching a lot more than I'm used to though.
> In one of my previous tanks, the Downoi grew like a true stem plant and I think it was due to a heavy dosing regime of Macros. It would actually break the surface in my 15gal in a couple of weeks.
> 
> 
> ...


Dang! I gotta build that manifold so I can get some CO2 to the tank with the Downoi.  I suspect that's the issue... my single downoi isn't growing NEARLY that fast, and it's getting everything BUT the CO2.


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## Aaron (Feb 12, 2004)

Praxx, 
This plant will do fine w/o CO2. I think it looks nicer in the way the leaves seem broader and more arching in moderately lit/ low tech tanks. It does grow a lot slower though. The tank in the picture was an experiment in growing stuff in "Super Pursuit Mode" (how's that for a "Knight Rider reference!) Other plants in the tank needed to be pruned twice a week, and I think if I stared at it closely, I think I could see them grow.


Victri,
I just tested my water and it read Ph-6.0, Gh-0, Kh-2. To be honest, I am quite shocked. I have not tested my water for a while, but from what I remember, it was always moderately hard (gh, kh- 7, 10) I will probably start another thread on this issue. What scares me is that I have about 50 Downoi plants in this tank... that would utterly suck if I woke up one day and they were all melted.
It is a different Aaron that you know, but I am a part of that circle of friends that you met (Robert, Chuck, Brent, Jojo). Robert speaks highly of you


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## travis (Oct 5, 2004)

Wow Aaron that is some robust Downoi! I've been keeping some Downoi in my hard water African cichlid tank and it is doing quite well except for the fact that it is spreading laterally by sprouting new plantlets all around the edges and not growing more than 2" vertically. I've spoken to another hobbyist who has had this same experience with Downoi. Is there some reason that it is not growing vertically in my tank? I actually sort of like the lateral growth. I'm thinking that it can be used as a sort of a carpet plant if it continues to grow in this manner


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## Aaron (Feb 12, 2004)

Having it creep along the bottom seems to be the norm for almost all who keep this plant. My plants have not grown like that ever since I took down that tank, must have been my fert dosing regimen. There's been mention of Downoi carpets on other boards, but I have yet to see one. I don't see why it can't be done.

at our last HAS mtg, a MONSTER Downoi with approximately 40 branches went for nearly 90 bucks in the auction. It's created a buzz around the lfs over here. Many enquiries are being made about this plant. Good job on growing that one Ken!


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## victri (Mar 18, 2004)

Think I found out what was causing the melting. I was comparing some notes with a friend in Greece, and I realized that there was some truth in some older observations where people warned not to wash Downoi under the tap. It's not the tapwater that directly caused the melting. It's the sudden change in water parameters.

I exchange plants regularly with this friend, and we were wondering why our downoi grew so differently. Mine are very compact and bright green where his is tall (up to 12 inches with many branches) but lighter in color. Well, we exchanged downoi plants and I watched them melt when introduced to my tank. Frustrated, I set up a smaller tank and totally replicated his water parameters. The next batch he sent to me all survived and took to the new tank without any problems.

They grow well in both acidic and non-acidic tanks, and water hardness/softness didn't matter. The sudden change in the KH-GH (from his tank to mine) killed them.

That solved an old issue that was bothering me, but we're still not too sure why they grow differently. Both tanks are high light, high CO2. We're still figuring out if there's any significant difference in our dosing.

Mine:









My friend's:


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

I have to say that this theory makes sense to me. My Downoi had been growing fine for a long time, then I started messing with the water parameters and doing large water changes -- I think they don't like the large water changes either. Anyway, I have lost a lot of my Downoi


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## victri (Mar 18, 2004)

I did an experiment where I moved a few downoi from a hardwater tank to one with soft water. Other parameters, temp, CO2, substrate, dosing, everything was the same. Most melted to the stalk within days. The stronger ones dropped a lot of leaves but managed to recover. Sometimes the leaf-dropping also happens when I perform large water changes (>50%).

I have some in another tank where I gradually dropped the GH and KH, and all survived well.

Nothing really concrete here, but people getting Downoi should ask about the water conditions that it was grown in. Perhaps that'll save a lot of heartache.


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## cousinkenni (Jan 24, 2005)

Hey guys,

I do large water changes every week (most times over 70%) and I do not see it melt away. It must be something else besides waterchanges, enless when I do water changes no parameters change.

My conditions are:
following E.I. for 5.5WPG, 20 gallon tank
I also add a little CaCl2 to bring my Ca++ up to 20ppm (a little less than 20 out of tap)
about 1/2tsp alkaline buffer to bring it up to 4.2 dKH (roughly 2.8 to start out of tap)

My individual plants deffinately do not get very tall. They more or less form a bush, the bush however can get up to 10 inches tall and at least as wide in diameter simailar to what is seen in one of Victri's photos.

I got mine from Aaron a few months ago at a local meeting and it took off. I saw no signs of melting, but Aaron and I probably have similar water considering we are on the same island.

So in conclusion it deffinately isn't just water changes that cause it to melt. Maybe large changes in water parameters but why would a water change be accompanied by a large change in water parameters that is unless you are changing the water parameters  

Ken T.


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

My water comes out of the tank extremely soft, almost no kh and gh; so, I've been adding calcium carbonate, but I'm not much of a measurer, etc. But, it started melting when I wasn't doing much to buffer the water.


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## cousinkenni (Jan 24, 2005)

*Whoa is me!*

Piscesgirl,

I guess I spoke too soon with melting Downoi. I have been away from home for the last two weeks and my girlfriend is taking care of all the tanks. I guess this was a bad idea, for I lost all but one sprout of the downoi from Aaron!

Funny thing is I don't think it was due to a water change because I told her not to do a water change. One has not been done in over two weeks!

I am dreading getting back to the island to see what is actually left of my planted tanks!

Ken T.


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## Piscesgirl (Feb 25, 2004)

oh that's sad! If not the water change, I wonder what did it?


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