# O2 or what problem



## crystalview (Mar 9, 2008)

I have a 36" x 12" x 24"T (45g) 
Water is O, O, 4 PH 6.5
I have an Eheim 2126 out let pointed towards surface with sponge inlet (right side)
2 Hydor nano's (240 gph)Middle and left side
Excel daily EI daily

My plants look fine except the Anubias which has algae and missing some nutrient (another post). This tank is a 4 wk restart. I have had a problem for over a year with this tank and not able to stop using the wall of bubbles. If I stop using the small wall of bubbles, I find the fish gasping at the surface for no reason that I know of. They stop this if I restart the bubbles. I really don't understand why this happens. Or stops with bubbles it makes no sense. Does it to you?


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## Karebear (Oct 6, 2008)

How much excel are you using? It can bind with the oxygen in the water so that your fish cannot get any.


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## crystalview (Mar 9, 2008)

I use 4 capfuls at WC and one capful daily Dosage as per instructions on bottle. I thought Excel dissipated pretty quickly. The only way to see if the lack of O2 is caused at the time I add the Excel, is to try it with the bubbles off. Wish there was another way that is a lot of stress on my neons. But I guess it would be better to try it on them then in a couple of months when I get my discus again.


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## Karebear (Oct 6, 2008)

When we have overdosed excel, it has been up to two weeks before it is safe to add more fish. You would think a few days would do it but that has not been our experience. From what I understand, excel is in the water available for the plants for 24 hours. I refused to sell excel for many years, because of what it can do to the fish. I have many co-workers who refuse to sell it because they have seen the aftermath of an overdose. It was a shocker to see excel used to the extent it is on this forum. Yes I do use it now on our planted planted tanks, but I am very very careful.


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## crystalview (Mar 9, 2008)

I have two swordtails in a seperate tank. They are more hardy then the neons. I think I will switch there tanks and see if it is the excel. I sit by my tank in the evening so I will watch for any sign of stress. Sounds cruel but I don't know what else to do. I would rather not have the noise from the bubbles (hisssss) and know no other way to increase O2.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

This is a very difficult tank to work with (I have one). 
Treat it like about a 35 gallon or even a 30. It just does not have the surface area for gas exchange, no matter how much you agitate the surface. (Actual surface is more like about a standard 29 gallon tank)
Fish stocking: Go REALLY light. 
Fertilizer/CO2/Excel etc: Go light. 
Light: It is such a deep tank and so narrow it is very hard to light. Get the very best reflector you can. Mine is up against a north window, which seems to help.
Water movement: Emphasize circulation that picks up water from the floor of the tank and sends it toward the surface. In this tank is hard to get a good flow pattern going, and its real trouble is the depth (2') with the very small surface area (only 3 sq. ft) A canister with a really long intake, then outlet is a spraybar, aimed across the top, hitting the front glass seemed to work the best, then another little trick is to add a manifold intake to the canister. Do this by putting a PVC T at the bottom of the intake and adding some more pipes and Ts horizontally. Then put a sponge over each T, so that there are about 4 intakes across the back of the tank.
Aim your power heads not horizontally (traditional orientation) but angled up from the lower areas again, to lift that stale, old water from the bottom and send it upwards. Be careful not to counter-act the filter's contribution to the water movement.


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## crystalview (Mar 9, 2008)

Sounds interesting. I will move one the nano power heads to the bottom. The other is in the middle. Never seen a manofold output is it different then a spray bar? 
My next tank is the 67g only difference from the 46g is it is 18W. So I might have the same problem.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

I use a manifold intake that I make myself with PVC pipe and fittings.


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## crystalview (Mar 9, 2008)

Do you have a pic or can describe? Does it make noise or hiss?


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Intake manifold is made of PVC, and is mostly buried in substrate at the back of the tank. No noise at all. I will try to link a drawing. 
1) Cut PVC to lengths. I start with 3/4" PVC for large filters such as XP3, Aquaclear 110, or Fluval 404. 1/2" is OK for most HOB filters. If your tank is 4' long, and you want 4 intakes then divide 48" by 4, and subtract for the pipe fittings. I found that about 6-7" worked OK. 
2) Cut 4 pieces of 1/2" PVC about 2" long. If you want to get really fancy you could drill these fill of holes. I do not bother. 
3) Cut pieces of sponge. If you start with an Aquaclear 110 sponge you could get 8 sponges from it. The sponges I also use are a coarser, blue sponge made for another filter, for pond use, I think. Anyway, cut the sponges about 1-1/2 - 2" x 1-1/2-2" x 3-4". (This is one and a half to two inches by one and a half to two inches by three to four inches)
4) Cut an X into one end of the sponges. Do not go all the way through. Test fit by putting a piece of PVC into the hole. 
5) Here is where you must get creative: Different filters have different size intake tubes. You will have to figure out what works for your set up. PVC? Vinyl tubing? Drip Irrigation tubing? Other? You need to connect the filter intake to the PVC. 
6) Assemble it all. No glue. Be prepared to cut the PVC pipe a bit shorter if needed. 
From one end:
Elbow is a 3/4" x 1/2" slip x slip. Tee is 3/4" x 3/4" x 1/2" slip x slip x slip. If your filter intake needs something else, use whatever you need. Some of mine use a 3/4" x 3/4" x 3/4" all slip T. 

(Elbow) (pipe) (Tee*) (pipe) (Tee*) (pipe) (Tee) (Pipe) (Elbow)

Each Elbow and each Tee will have a short piece of 1/2" PVC rising vertically. Stick the sponge on this. 
* One of these Tees is for the filter intake. Center is best, but HOB filters usually have their intake to one side. Line it up wherever you want, the whole system is interchangeable. 
Make sure the whole assembly is short enough that the end sponges are not too tight against the end walls of the tank. They need some water movement around them. 

7) Bury the manifold in the substrate at the back of the tank, again, leave some clearance for the sponges.


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## crystalview (Mar 9, 2008)

Thank you very much!


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## tug (Jul 23, 2009)

Quality work Diana. My shrimp love sponges. OMG, they are sponges. :faint2:


Diana K said:


> This is a very difficult tank to work with (I have one).
> Treat it like about a 35 gallon or even a 30. It just does not have the surface area for gas exchange, no matter how much you agitate the surface. (Actual surface is more like about a standard 29 gallon tank)
> Fish stocking: Go REALLY light.
> Fertilizer/CO2/Excel etc: Go light.
> ...


A spray bar improved my water quality tremendously.


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