# New Square 200 Gallon



## DonaldmBoyer

Hi Everyone!

It has been awhile! Prior to a really difficult travel schedule this past Summer, my wife graduated with her PhD from Wayne State and was job hunting. My travel schedule for work became ridiculous, and my wonderful tanks went the way of the Dodo. John has the cube now, and my 100 gallon was dismantled and is with Dale at Fantastic Fins. I have relocated with my wife to St. Louis, and am trying to get active again here at MiAPG and over at APC.

In any event, things have settled finally with work and moving, and I was able to have a custom 200 gallon tank, stand, and lighting made for me. A huge thanks to Riley for making the stand and lighting to perfection; they turned out better than I could have imagined! They are of better quality than any where you could hope to buy them, and it saved me a ton of money. Thank you to Steve at Great Lakes Aquariums in Warren; the tank was extremely well crafted and very reasonable. And a thanks should go to Fantastic Fins for allowing me to buy some of the heavy driftwood, filtration, heaters for a great price.

A sincere "thank you" to all who helped make turn this goofy thought of mine into reality!

Now, for the Journal of the Beast!

Tank Dimensions: 4ft Long by 4ft Wide by 20 inches Tall. Custom made by Great Lakes Aquariums. Tempered glass bottom, corner-braced. Hey Riley, remember how much fun we had moving that?

Stand Dimension: approx. 4ft Long by 4ft Wide by 30" Tall. Custom made by Kevin Riley. Solid wood construction, ADA style. Hey Riley, remember how much fun we had moving that too?

Lighting: 16 High Output T5 fluorescent bulbs. Custom made by Kevin Riley. Solid wood frame. Pendulum style. 8 Giesemann Aquaflora bulbs plus 8 Giesemann Daylight bulbs.

Filtration: One Fluval XP5 for main water filtration. One Magnum 350 Canister filter for CO2 injection and UV Sterilizer.

Heating: two 75 watt heaters at 78F

CO2: Two pressurized through bio-reactor at 7-8 bubbles per second

Substrate: 50lbs. of kitty litter; 50lbs. of PowerSand (ADA); 100lbs. Amazonia II Aquasoil (ADA); approx. 150lbs. mineralized soil (courtesy of Kevin Riley); 200lbs. of fine-grade black sand from AquariumSands.com 550lbs of substrate total

Here is a shot of the driftwood (three pieces of Malaysian driftwood; two are REALLY big, the third is a bit smaller) in the empty tank and stand. It took three minutes to get the arrangement I was looking for because I had eyed them out at Fantastic Fins with Dale and Riley a few weeks earlier.


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## DonaldmBoyer

Some progress has been made from the last picture.

First, I bought a new Canon camera so I could take nice pics of the new tank. So, no more camera phone!

Second, the substrate was added in the following order: 50lbs of kitty litter; 50lbs of PowerSand; 50lbs Amazonia II; 150lbs of mineralized soil; 200lbs of black sand.

The water was added very slowly, over the course of six hours to minimize stirring up small particulate matter that would otherwise make the water cloudy. After filling, I added some bacteria to get the nitrifying bacteria population started. PowerSand and Amazonia II have a high number of nitrifying bacteria within them, but also cause a lot of nitrogen to be produced. As I am not planning on adding any fish until mid to late December, and I would imagine that any nitrogen-based poisons will be very minimal by then.

There is some leaching of tannins from the wood and substrate, which is fine by me. It will help keep the water soft and slightly acidic, and I have peat pellets to filter the water through to help optimize water conditions for the plants. I don't mind a temporary slight brownish tinge to the water in order to get great plants.

Next step is to add the lighting and plants, which will be done on Tuesday. More pictures to come then!

Feel free to comment!


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## orlando

Awesome, Cant wait to see this grow out.

How about some pics of the motor and lights

Cheers, O


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## Tex Gal

It reminds me of a castle on a hill. Can't wait to see what you do with this one! I'll be paying close attention!  Any red plants in your future? Any I can help you with?


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## DonaldmBoyer

Orlando-- I won't have the lights up until Tuesday evening. I have the bulbs only right now. I still have to plumb the filters to the UV Sterilizer and CO2, so the guts are quite done yet. I am hoping that will be done tomorrow night too.

Tex-- I will be adding plenty of reds, and I appreciate your offer. I will PM you, but I want to wait and see how the lights are going to impact coloration and growth patterns first before I invest the time in buying a bunch of rares or reds. This is the first time I have solely used HO T5's on a tank and mineralized soil in the substrate, so I will need to take a little time to see how things are going to go. Thank you though, and I hope we can arrange something in the near future!!!!! I love your tank, BTW; still looks so natural and colorful. Congrats again regarding Amano.....that's very substantial!


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## cah925

Oh boy, another monster tank. Can't wait to see what you do with this one. Love the DW too!


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## Tex Gal

Thanks Don. I am struggling with the L. Pantanal. I think it may be because I have it in a darker corner. I just took some out and plunked it in the middle of my tank front. We'll see if it snaps out of it or not. Then at least I'll know if it's the light or not. I hear that it's a temperamental plant.

I'm still working on my tank. Of course that's the fun of it all. I'm gonna have to give up my GEORGEOUS Echino Africanus!:Cry: It's just getting to big for the space! It needs a home in someone's LARGE tank. Who might that be?!!


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## DonaldmBoyer

Well, if it is good enough for Amano.... 

If you are offering, I'll be happy to put it into a good home. It may go "BLAH" for a bit as it adapts to the mineralized soil, but will come back nicely, I would think.

L. Pantanal is a bit tricky. It will need all of the light it can get, and if you can find a place right by your CO2 with high light, you should be golden! Watch for hair algae on that plant, for sure! You may need to replant it a few times to find the ideal location for it.


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## adechazal

Hi Don,
How are you going to run the filter intake/return in and out? Just going over the back or is there an internal skimmer pipe hiding somewhere?


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## DonaldmBoyer

Hi Adechazal!

I am just over the back. There are two canister filters that I am using. The bulk of the filtering will be handled by the XP5, and the CO2 and UV Sterilizer will be hooked up to the Magnum 350. The Magnum will intake, go into the canister, come out and pass through the UV Sterilizer and then go to a bioreactor for the CO2, and then come out. 

The hope is to keep most of the intakes/outflows and heaters hidden by plants and hardscape. The trick will be to do that AND get good enough flow through the aquarium. This is more difficult than normal because of the relatively unique tank dimensions, but I think that I should be fine if I just pay attention.

Does this answer your question Ade?


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## andrecardoso

I can only imagine that tank as a reef tank  hehe

Anyway, good start


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## DonaldmBoyer

Andre, that is precisely where I got the idea from. I figured, "oh, that might be kinda neat" if I could take that design and make it into a planted freshwater tank.


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## Tex Gal

ygpm


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## davemonkey

Wow! I am pumped up about seeing how this progresses. What a cool tank design!

-Dave


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## thief

WOW this tank looks like it's going to be awesome. I would love a tank like this one day. I bet it is going to look like it is in the amazon or something. Can't wait!!!


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## DonaldmBoyer

A few days after planting........tea anyone? 

Time is a bit of an issue, so I'll post plants added to the scape in a day or two.

Anyhow, here are the pics:


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## DonaldmBoyer

Some more...


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## puttyman70

Holy cow! I haven't been on here in forever and I pop in and there she blows! Awesome you finally got to set this up. Next thing ya know we'll be hearing from Jessie.

The tank is awesome.


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## DonaldmBoyer

As the night has handed me a bout of insomnia.....

Puttyman,Thief,Dave.....thank you for the compliments!!!

Sorry all about the last set of photos; they are a bit washed out from the flash. I tried decreasing the brightness and upping the contrast of those photos on my computer; they look great in Photobucket, and pretty lousy here. I am not really sure what happened between the transfer, but it didn't work.

MOST IMPORTANTLY: The lights were done by CAPTAIN NEMO in Michigan. They turned out better than I had hoped for, buddy! You are quite the miracle worker, and this tank obviously would not matter unless I had the lighting to show it off and grow the plants! Thank you!


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## Tex Gal

My eyes! My eyes! The burning light!!!! jk [smilie=h:

Funny! With the tannin water it's hard for me to tell what the plants are. Are you gonna keep this color or is it temporary? I think I'm gonna like it! :mrgreen:


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## davemonkey

Oh, this tank is just too cool! I keep looking back at my tank (a 4 ft long) and I'm trying to imagine it 4ft x 4ft. All the play-room available for scaping, fish, trying out new plants....JEALOUS!!!

As far as the layout, it looks great and I look forward to seeing updates. 

-Dave


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## DonaldmBoyer

Well, Dave....the tank dimensions do allow for more play with the scape. I would say that it almost negates that whole "trying to create depth in the aquascape" thing that can be tricky. Basically, if you have four feet of depth, then there are not as many "rules" to follow. Tall stems towards the back and near the driftwood, shorter plants and groundcover around that. Which is why I am sooooo surprised that I have not seen a tank quite like this. Small cube gardens are one thing, but they have been around for awhile now. I do not know why nobody got this idea and tried it out on this type of scale. I initially got the idea by talking to a LFS owner a year ago; we were discussing my 40 Gallon Cube by a coral propotation tank! I put 2 and 2 together......

Of course, if it doesn't work out, it was a very expensive mistake for sure! I do feel a better sense of freedom with this aquarium, but we shall see how it turns out. Like any "idea," it has some potential. The rest lies in technique, practice, and humility in learning from making mistakes. I'm sure there will be plenty of mistakes! 

TexGal--I don't really know about the "tea" coloring. I thought that it looked cool when there were no plants in it and no lights above it. When the sunlight hit it, it was very cool looking. With the lighting system and some color, I am not so sure now. Regardless, the color will disappear over time with water changes, and those colors will pop. It is hard to distinguish reds, yellows, and orange tones with the water being the color it is currently.

As you could imagine, though, to perform massive water changes needed to get rid of the tea coloration would be pretty expensive. I'm not a believer in carbon, so it will eventually vanish 20 gallons at a time over a few months.

For plants: (provided by Riley and plants that I gave Riley months ago that came back to me...thanks again, buddy!)

-Hygro Kompact
-Hygro Tiger
-Ammania Gracilis
-HC
-Polygonum sp. "Ruby"
-Hygro Roraima
-Rotala Colorata
-Green Hygro
-Eustrallis Stellata
-Fissidens sp. North America (Thank you JDihn04!)
-Michigan-native Ludwigia
-Java Fern "Trident"
-Bolbitis
-Crypt. Wendtii
-Stargrass

There are a few more species in there that I am forgetting off the top of my head (Umm...help, Riley?). That is fine as not all of the current plants will stay. Some of the fast growing hygros will go (eventually). I am expecting some of my Michigan friends to send me some of my Polygonum Porto Vehlo back to me with some small hydrocotyl species. Maybe a few more, but we'll see!

Oh, and I have Utricularia being shipped to me today. That will be fun!

Not too sure about shrimp or fish species quite yet, but I am in no real rush either. Probably go with some Threadfin variants for fish, and good ol' cherries for some of the maintenance.

More pics following my UG planting, and after I plumb my UV Sterilizer and CO2 this week, for those of you who are interested in the "guts" under the cabinet.


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## Tex Gal

Looking forward to it!  You could also give Purigen a try for removing the tanins. Guess I'll have to wait to "judge" your reds! lol


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## Bunbuku

Neat tank Donald! Your lights are so bright you gotta wear shades  to scape ! How do you reach the middle of the tank? It looks like you have to slather on the SPF-45 and climb right in!

Have you seen this nice cube layout from Italy? http://www.aquacube.it/aqua/en/speciali/ada_faberi_2007/intro.asp


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## DonaldmBoyer

Bun--Cool link! I stand corrected! Maybe I should have said, "I wonder why they aren't very popular here in the States?" as opposed to "I wonder why I have never seen anyone try this before."

The tank is only 20 inches high on top of a stand that is only 30 inches high. I am 6 foot 4 inches, so reaching the middle of the tank is not an issue at all. Since the lights are hung on chains, if I need to get "full into" the middle, I can always raise the lights to links on the chain that are "higher" up until I am done, then lower the hooks on the lighting pendulum back down to lower chain links.

The lights are pretty bright, but not brighter than the compact power fluorescents I had over my old 100 gallon. Plus, there is MUCH less heat now. I am a very happy boy!


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## Jeff.:P:.

First off, awesome tank! :hail: That is *exactly* my next tank for my reef. I first fell in love with that tank when I saw that guy from Italy Aqua Cube probably a year ago. 
Great scape! Love the UG, hill scape I think its gonna look amazing. Congrats on the set-up, I'll be following this one closely. *subscribed* also ygpm


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## Bunbuku

Hey Jeff -if you want a square tank reef tank check these guys http://www.zeroedgeaquarium.com/

Donald - I ordered some UG from CPM also for my rescape. Once the UG is established does one simply "mow" the lawn to the specified height?


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## DonaldmBoyer

Bunbuku--I believe that you need to thin out the UG from time to time as opposed to "mowing it" down. At least that is what I have read. I think that mowing the UG would end up killing it.


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## houseofcards

Donald congrats on getting that incredible tank started. Looks like your off to a great start.


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## dirrtybirdy

the tank looks exceptional! 

I always wanted to have a square tank, but its such and weird shape, i would have no where to put it

Keep us updated!


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## rekles75

WOW this is one to follow. I like where this is going


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## DonaldmBoyer

HouseofCards, Dirtybirdy, Rekles75--

Thank you for your support! I hope that it will live up to your expectations when it is "done" in a few months! 

I just ordered some Echino and Sao Paulo from TexGal; the UG arrives tomorrow. In addition, I ordered 25 Corydoras Hastatus and will be placing an order for 100 threadfin variants (2 different species, 50 each).

I still am looking for some very low growing hydrocotyle species, but am not having much luck. Would anybody have any suggestions for me? I would appreciate the help, please!

More pics this coming weekend!


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## travis

That's a incredible looking tank Donald. I am envious of the real estate you've got to play with.



DonaldmBoyer said:


> I still am looking for some very low growing hydrocotyle species, but am not having much luck. Would anybody have any suggestions for me? I would appreciate the help, please!


Have you considered H. sibthorpioides? It is the smallest Hydrocotyle spp. that I know of. If you can't find it here on the For Sale or Trade forum I am growing some out now and can send you some in a couple of weeks. I've also got H. verticillata if you want something a bit larger.


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## DonaldmBoyer

12-6-08

Hello All!

I am experiencing pretty decent stability with the tank; I got my CO2 and UV sterilizer hooked up on Thursday. There has been a slight outbreak on brown algae on the foreground hygro and fissidens, but it seems to be dying off now. Also, I added Polygonum 'Sao Paulo,' Utricularia Grammifolia, and Echino. Quad. I will be adding a few more plants this coming week and about 25 Corydoras Hastatus.

NOTE: Thank you to Tex Gal for the Echinodorus Quadrifolius and the Poly 'Sao Paulo'!

Water is also being filtered through peat now. I plan on adding one more UV Sterilizer and am currently waiting for my bioreactor for additional CO2 injection. I may try experimenting with small doses of ferts starting next weekend.:-k

Anyhow, PICTURE TIME!


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## DonaldmBoyer

Some more pics:










Hygro Kompact close up:









Utricularia Grammifolia close up (one of many clumps):









Polygonum 'Ruby':









Close up of E. Stellata. I am already propogating this BEFORE I had CO2 going! Whoo-hoo!









Someone asked to see the "guts," so here is what I have so far. It isn't done yet; I am adding one more CO2 injector and another UV, then adding hooks and clamps to keep the tubing organized and looking nice!









I have......something growing out of my wood. Not really sure what that's about! Time will tell....


















Feel free to comment! Any plant suggestions?


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## Tex Gal

Wow Don! It's looking very nice. Wish the water was clear so I could really see the colors. Have you thought about purigen or charcoal? How about that diatom filter you told me about? 

I just got my UG. I planted it. I was not thrilled at the amounts or how it came. It didn't seem to have a root, just a tangled mass. I hope I planted it correctly. I guess time will tell.

Plants go out Mon. I love your E. Stellata. When you're filled up with it I'd love to try some... (hint, hint.....)


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## DonaldmBoyer

Good Evening, Your Worship! 

I don't believe in carbon or purigen; there is really no need for it other than to clear up water quickly. Before you yell, I know that it aids in biological filtration, but with the amount of substrate and filtration I have, it just isn't needed for this tank. A few water changes with take the color out eventually, and the plants will pop through. The diatom filter won't filter out tannins, Tex; just particulate matter.

My UG came a little tangled, too. If you soaked it, you could see the roots and "untangle" it a bit. I would think that you would be fine, though; it will right itself. My understanding is that the UG basically is going to sit there for while as it adapts to the tank conditions, and then becomes unstoppable if it "likes it" in there.

I will be happy to share some stellata with you, Tex! I have to get some stems back to the person that originally gave it to me. After that, I will be happy to mail you some!


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## Tex Gal

You are so funny! LOL You know I am having a hard time waiting to see the true colors..... I suggested the carbon or purigen specifically for that reason. I see that you are gonna make me wait.... 

Can you tell me how the Polygonum ruby is different from the Sao Paulo? As you know I have the Sao Paulo. The growth pattern in the pxs looks the same.

Thanks for sharing. I will wait patiently.


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## DonaldmBoyer

'Sao Paulo' and 'Ruby' are similar in growth pattern, but the difference is in color. Paulo seems to get an intense brick red or fusia color whereas Ruby seems to get more purpley-red. The Ruby does get slightly longer leaves. I'll take a pic of both together "when the water clears up"  so you will be able to see them both side by side.

Good things come to those who wait, Tex. The tannins will be gone soon enough!


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## Tex Gal

Don I just looked up E. Stellata and find out that is Pogostemum Stellatus. I have that. I think the "COLOR" threw me off...... (damn those tannins.....)....


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## 808aquatics

Tank should turn out great. I wish i could pick me up a 200 gal on top of my 125, 40, 20, and six 10's dat I have already. My wife said she'll leave me if I picked up another monster tank. LOL


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## jazzlvr123

wow your setup is terrific the scape is coming its own ways too im sure it will look great once things grow out a bit great job!


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## orlando

Wow! Super Bad!


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## KRiley

Well...well....well...the tank looks good Don!

That Hygro Kompakt is really looking cool! As far as that Polygonum ruby goes.....it grows way different from the regular Sao Paulo. I dont know where the picture is, but I know it grows at an angle. 

Any whoo.....Don the tank looks great....now get some paint on that stand and hood so I dont look like such a hack!


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## DonaldmBoyer

808--Since I am the Breadwinner of the family (for now), my wife didn't have much say in the matter of getting this tank.  Acutally, she is the one that urged me to get it. I think that she has become a big fan of the my hobby and has been (unusually) supportive. I wonder what she wants.....

Jazz and Orlando--Thank you for the compliments! It will take a little time to fill in; I just hope my UG does what it is supposed to do! I think that if I get a nice carpet of that, it will make the tank!

Riley--Sao Paulo also grows at an angle, but I can see that the Ruby is really growing almost at 45 degree angle. It is a bit more extreme than the Sao Paulo. It is difficult to paint the stand and pendulum when I am always gone, though. Plus, I could paint it ten times, and you would still be a hack!  Also, the bottom right door fell off. Hmmm...I wonder whose fault that could have been?


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## arowanaman

Don it has been awhile scince I have seen one of your tanks, and this is a great way to start up again. I cant wait to see how this tank turns out. Currious to see what fish you decide on using.


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## 954baby

looks sick, make sure to update pics every month or so!


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## DonaldmBoyer

Hello! Here are photo updates as of 1-10-09. I'll post some close ups below this post. Not really much to report; overall, I am pretty happy. Everything seems to be growing nicely, with the exception of the HC. Can't really blame it, though. It is trying to grow on inert black sand cap which is a few inches thick so it has difficulty reaching the "yummy" nutrient-rich substrate beneath it. It is growing, just pretty slowly. The Utricularia also only recently has started to spread at a faster pace, but I bought some more this past week to help get the rest of the foreground grown in.

I have picked up the dosing too, which should help. The last shipment of plants is due in next week; after that, I'll grow the plants for a few more weeks, then I can concentrate on the aquascaping after everything is growing.

I was able to get the tank and pendulum primed and painted this past week finally! Comments and criticisms welcome!


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## DonaldmBoyer

A few close ups:

A native Michigan Ludwigia:









Lamiaceae:









Polygonum 'Sao Paulo':









Polygonum 'Sao Paulo' and Polygonum 'Ruby': Notice how the Sao Paulo grows vertically, and the Ruby grows at an extreme angle.









Pogostemon Stellatus:









Utricularia Grammifolia:
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i257/crazydaz/New Tank/Tank 1-10/UticulariaGrammifolia.jpg


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## orlando

Well Done! Holly molly!

-O


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## davemonkey

:jaw: um....DANG! That looks.............DANG!!! ...and you still have growing and scaping to do....

Even my wife stopped and stared at the computer screen for awhile and remarked on how beautiful it looks (and that's RARE) . I can only imagine what the next updates will look like. 

-Dave


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## CraigThor

:jaw:


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## Bunbuku

My gosh the red on those stems are :shock:UNREAL! Seems to be the Donald signature!

My UG was slow to take off also. About 1/2 of the UG plugs I put in initially melted. Those that survived finally started sending out runners last week. Did you get the aquatic or the emmersed version of UG from CPN?


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## DonaldmBoyer

Orlando, CraigThor, Dave- Thank you!  Still has a looooong way to go, but it is filling in pretty good, at least with the stems. It has a nice jungle feel to it , especially with the midground of hygro roraima mixing with the echinodorus quadrifolias and the hydocotyle sibthorpiodes. Obviously, the foreground needs to fill in, and my zosterfolia was doing really will, but took a brutal trim and does not look as well as it did a week ago. 

Bunbuku-I did order the "aquatic" form, but is seemed to take a very long time to start sending out runners. I was lucky; I didn't have many "melting" plugs. I have talked to Mike who runs CPN several times now, and it seems to be an issue of how he keeps his UG submersed in very specific substrate and water levels in pots with no water flow. In other words, he really babies his terristrial UG in a submersed for until they send out runners, and it is those runners that we get. Runners that were formed in very specific conditions, so I would assume that it would take awhile for it to adapt to an aquarium setting. He really sells his aquatic form of UG for ponds or as marginal plants. Though, given enough time and favorable conditions, the UG will adapt to our aquatic conditions found in our aquariums. Seems to be growing well for me now!

I almost forgot! Since the last update, I was able to stock my aquarium with fish! A list of what I have now:

25 Cory Habrosis
40 Cory Hastatus
30 Pseudomugil Furcata
10 Red Tail Garra-relatively new algae eaters (in the US) and fairly rare still
25 Pseudomugil Gertrudae
20 Pseudomugil Signifer
5 Assassin Snails-hoping to get some more; very pretty snail in it's own right!

Things are definitely much more active in there now, and much more fun to watch! Just ask my three kitties and my wife!


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## Tex Gal

Hey there Don! The tank is looking great. My UG is beginning to grow. I didn't get nearly as good a crop as you did, but I do see some new growth. The "runners" I got were tiny and a mess. It was hard to tell what to plant. When you get overrun let me know! 

Your fissidens is looking great. The E. Quad looks great in there too. When your UG fills in it will be spectacular!

My DW is getting changed out tomorrow. Can't wait.


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## DonaldmBoyer

Thanks, TexGal! And thank you again for the plants! That Echino Quad really grows and spreads quickly! Yowsers!

What is "DW"? Dirty Water?


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## Tex Gal

DonaldmBoyer said:


> Thanks, TexGal! And thank you again for the plants! That Echino Quad really grows and spreads quickly! Yowsers!
> 
> What is "DW"? Dirty Water?


FUNNY BOY!! Finally changing the drift wood for my trees. ...and yes, also the dirty water....

I do love the E. Quad but since my tank is so shallow (front to back) I finally gave it up. I'll be knowing where to come if I change my mind! 

The Polygonum sp. ruby that I got grows such a larger leaf than the Sao Paulo. I was amazed. I like the Sao Paulo better.

You are still King of the reds! :roll: (Ok come clean on the PHOTOSHOP!!.. we all know you do it!)


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## Dan S

You are definitely a master in aqua-scape!! That is an aquarium most of us only dream of! I agree with everyone else an i must say your reds are truely amazing! Even your greens look great! I can only imagine what the next update will bring!!!!


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## DonaldmBoyer

Whoops! I forgot some fish inhabitants! 

--6 Apistogramma "Panduro"

TexGal-I tried Photoshop about three years ago, and after an hour of experimenting with it, I conclusively decided that i wasn't smart enough or patient enough to learn it.  The first picture of the entire tank is "Auto Fixed"; everything else is not. 

Dan-Thank you, but I am not a "master" of anything! I have a good eye, but everything else is due to great lighting, substrate, and a little fertilization. And a lot of luck! I am only capitalizing on other people's hard work. I have never used HO T5's before, so it was a bit of a gamble that ended up working out pretty well; the same idea applies to the mineralized soil and Amazonia II. That, and I stink at accepting compliments! But I am happy that you like it!


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## houseofcards

You Da Man! Gotta love that depth.


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## cah925

Impressive! I haven't checked on this thread since late November and I am speechless. I'll bet this tank looks stunning in person.


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## DonaldmBoyer

House and CAH925-Thank you! The tank is an ongoing project, but has really helped me to apply what I had learned from my recent 100 and 40 gallon tanks. 

It is hard sometimes when you look and all you see are the flaws; the UG needs to fill in faster, I still have to nurse some of my recently bought stems along, this or that plant grow at an unexpected angle, there are way too many snails, the driftwood breaching the surface is pretty "yawn", etc. It is hard to be "happy" with a current state because I think that implies that there is nothing else that I can do. I have only reached that pinnacle once with my old 40 gallon Cube tank.

Then again, it is what keeps my interest in the hobby: constantly fixing, fine tuning, and learning. So, I can't complain as long as I am still building that knowledge-base! The most important thing is that it has been fun, for sure!!!

Does anyone else feel this way? I mean, how often do any of you ladies and gents feel that you have accomplished the pinnacle or maximum potential in any of your scapes?


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## Greenthums

I am in awe of your spectacular and unique tank. Watching the progress from square one has been a journey of anticipation of the next picture post. You are doing an amazing job. Congrats!


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## tetrasforest

This is an absolutely amazing looking tank.


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## DonaldmBoyer

Thank you Green and Tetras! I am flattered that you look forward to seeing the updates!  That means a lot!


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## davemonkey

DonaldmBoyer said:


> Then again, it is what keeps my interest in the hobby: constantly fixing, fine tuning, and learning. So, I can't complain as long as I am still building that knowledge-base! The most important thing is that it has been fun, for sure!!!
> 
> Does anyone else feel this way? I mean, how often do any of you ladies and gents feel that you have accomplished the pinnacle or maximum potential in any of your scapes?


I'd bet most of us feel the same. There is always something new to try, or something to adjust, and ALWAYS something to learn. That's why I love this hobby so much. It keeps us going....

-Dave


----------



## FishandTurtleJunkie

Holy cow, I did the math on the lighting...864 watts? Is that right? Do you stagger the lights at all, or full enchilada for the whole period? 

I really like the island look you have going here.


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Dave--I think that the hobby "demands" that we keep going....OR ELSE!  You can't really "quit" learning, as it will likely come back to bite you later on. We are all servants to our tanks!

Fish&Turtle-I run all twelve HO T5's for 12.5 hours per day, but I think the math is a little off. I have twelve 39 watt Geisseman's sitting over 140 gallons (factor in the substrate volume) or so. I'll have to do the math myself and figure it out but I am a bit pressed for time as I need to leave in an hour of Oklahoma City for work trip. I'll get back to you on that. I have not had any algae problems; I get some dust and GSA on the glass, and the snails took care of the hair algae a long time ago. So, there really never was a need to do anything about staggering the lights. They just come on and go off on a timer with the CO2; the UV sterilizer has helped minimize any sort of other algae outbreaks.


----------



## ingg

468 watts, not 864. Mirror image, heh.

Tank looks great! I just started keeping LAMIACEAE, AKA Hemigraphis Traian, what are your impressions of it so far?


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Ingg--My impressions are that you stole (err, I mean "bought before me") a lot of plants that I was going to use in the set up! HA!! Just kidding!

I actually really love the Lamiaceae! It has a very unique growth pattern in my tank: very vertical with the alternating leaf pattern and the blood red/purple coloration it gets towards the apex is incredible! It is not a super-fast grower, which kind of stinks right now as I am trying to propogate it. I think that once I have a nice group of it, it will be a stunning addition to the scape. Right now, I have two stems of it. I originally had one. Seems like you can propogate it once per month in my tank.

What about you? How do you like it, Ingg?


----------



## ingg

It is hidden right now, let you know when it gets tall enough. 

I bought it as a backdrop to grow out and up behind my Midifleur sword, which is a full size adult. I can see it back there, and the color looks great, but can only peek at pieces right now, hee!

I'm wondering how it will do in my setup - I run mineralized soil, which can do funny things to some plants. 

Purple Bamboo and Arthraxon are really doing great. I ended up nixing the other stem I bought, forgot it's name, but boy is it ugly in person, hehe....grrr, it'll come to me. Long thin wavy leaves..... grr.

Lamiacaea looks like it might be stunting, leaves are very small on top - not sure if that is how it grows in, or if it is transitioning, or what. Have to give it a bit of time, mineralized soil just makes some plants funky while they adjust.


----------



## Tex Gal

ingg said:


> It is hidden right now, let you know when it gets tall enough.
> 
> I bought it as a backdrop to grow out and up behind my Midifleur sword, which is a full size adult. I can see it back there, and the color looks great, but can only peek at pieces right now, hee!
> 
> I'm wondering how it will do in my setup - I run mineralized soil, which can do funny things to some plants.
> 
> Purple Bamboo and Arthraxon are really doing great. I ended up nixing the other stem I bought, forgot it's name, but boy is it ugly in person, hehe....grrr, it'll come to me. Long thin wavy leaves..... grr.
> 
> Lamiacaea looks like it might be stunting, leaves are very small on top - not sure if that is how it grows in, or if it is transitioning, or what. Have to give it a bit of time, mineralized soil just makes some plants funky while they adjust.


You'll love it as a backdrop plant. That's how I'm using mine. I just trimmed of some stems and have them in the For Sale forum. Mine grows fast (nanny nanny boo boo Don!:tongue1. I love it's rather big round and red leaves. It's quite unique that way. The leaves do start out smaller and grow larger as it grows. That's probably what you are seeing.


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Ingg--Mine is planted in mineralized soil, but I also have Aquasoil II beneath that. If I recall correctly, my Lamiacaea just sat there for good few weeks too before it took off. I wouldn't worry; just don't keep it too shaded or it becomes GSA prone while it is adapting.

Tex-ARRGGHHH!!! You are always there to witness my failures! You are indeed my "Lucy that pulls the football away from my foot at the last second"!  Pardon The Peanuts reference....

Just proves to show that there is always ALWAYS someone else out there that is better than you!


----------



## Tex Gal

DonaldmBoyer said:


> Tex-ARRGGHHH!!! You are always there to witness my failures! You are indeed my "Lucy that pulls the football away from my foot at the last second"!  Pardon The Peanuts reference....
> 
> Just proves to show that there is always ALWAYS someone else out there that is better than you!


FAILURES!! What failures??? (Please list below for future fodder use.)

Let's not talk about the people that are better than us... we need to keep up the confidence here!


----------



## Bert H

Well, I just read through all the entries from the beginning, and all I can say is WOW!  I also love those reds! What's your secret, other than the mini sun you have over the tank. I'll stay tuned. Great job Don!


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Bert--Thank you very much for your compliments! I wish I had a secret to share. Just using the noggin' I was blessed with and ten years of experience. The lights and the substrate help; otherwise, it is your boring reasons for success: fertilizers, plenty of CO2, good trimming, and some patience keeping the "long term" look of the scape in mind. Maybe it is the fact that I have a longer photoperiod than most with no ramping? As I said, I am really benefitting from the hard work of CaptainNemo (Chris) and Riley making the lighting fixture, stand, some of the substrate, and providing with great deals for the filter and hardscape and a good bit of the plants. It pays to have good friends!  All I have done was dream up the setup and maintain it the way I have learned from here and my own experiences. The mini-star helps though! HA!

Tex--1.Failure to grow my Lamiacaea as fast as yours, for starters!


----------



## chadly

Wow Don! I haven't been checkin in on your tank as I should be... Lookin great. That Polygonum really "POPS"...

I have had great luck propogating my lamiacaea, from 4 stems to like 12+ now. I'll have to send you some...


----------



## Tex Gal

chadly said:


> Wow Don! I haven't been checkin in on your tank as I should be... Lookin great. That Polygonum really "POPS"...
> 
> I have had great luck propogating my lamiacaea, from 4 stems to like 12+ now. I'll have to send you some...


He won't take it. (I offered him some too.) He want's to do it himself.... He's just so independent! :crazy:


----------



## jeepn4x4

Tank looks amazing. I have always liked the square tanks. A+


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Hey Chad! Thank you for the compliment, but if you read TexGal's post beneath, I am way too independent to accept your offer of Lamiacaea. Also, I am too Hollywood for you.  HA!!!

TexGal-YOU ARE HILARIOUS!!  Sorry I had to turn you down this time; I won't refuse in the future though  I just want to get a little more familiar with this specific plant on my own; kind of a "nerd" approach that I haven't been doing lately (like I should).

Jeep-Thank you! I cheated and got the square tank because I was getting tired of utilizing my trimming skills to create "the effect" of having depth. With the amount of travel for my job, it wasn't working out too well, so I said "To heck with it," and got a tank that offered the "width" I wanted. No more trying to create "the effect" of depth; it is already plenty depth now. It is much easier to maintain a nice look without having to jump into the tank a few times a week to prune. It happens once on the weekends now. Whoo-hoo!


----------



## Tex Gal

Hey, if you're not taking it from me- you can't take it from anyone else!!! 

Now you must understand I have no such independent quailities. SO... when I come begging with my hand out.... I expect you to fill it..... just want to be clear on this.....


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Well, Tex....how does it feel to be an aquatic plant whore?  I would feel unethical filling your greedy little girl hands now! It would leave me feeling a bit dirty and ashamed.

Just kidding! How else do we have such magnificent specimens? We either buy them or trade for them. It's the name of the game, for sure. Otherwise, we would all be growing anachris and duckweed now, wouldn't we?


----------



## Tex Gal

DonaldmBoyer said:


> Well, Tex....how does it feel to be an aquatic plant ****?  I would feel unethical filling your greedy little girl hands now! It would leave me feeling a bit dirty and ashamed.
> 
> Just kidding! How else do we have such magnificent specimens? We either buy them or trade for them. It's the name of the game, for sure. Otherwise, we would all be growing anachris and duckweed now, wouldn't we?


Boy when you kid- you don't kid around! It's getting a little bit rough!  I think I'm blushing as I type this.... Think maybe I'll just stay on the giving side of the equation... I'm glad to share.... no strings...


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

HA!! You can dish it out, but can you take it? 

All in good fun, Tex! You can all the plants you want!


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Quickly, I would like to add that I do NOT have Polygonum Sao Paulo; I learned today that it is actually Polygonum Kawagoneum. Go figure.

Regardless, it's purty, isn't it?


----------



## chadly

No hard feelings don, I'll cordially accept your denial of my offer. 

You may be a little bit closer to hollywood than me, but you are also more "cornstalk" now... btw, hows "The Back 40" doin? (thats my new name for your little "plot of land" you have growing in your house.)

Just to let you know, my lamiacheaiaeiaia came from texgal (thank you) to begin with.... (it has good roots) I'm not gonna try and break my elbows making room to the front of general admission w/a handfull of plants to give you. I have access to the green room so I'll just chillax and tend to mine own.


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

All of you people are ridiculous! What a bunch of "dorkers"!  

Fine, from this point forward: I WILL NEVER DISREGARD ANY OFFER OF PLANTS HENCEFORTH! Especially from Chad or Drinda. It isn't worth the hurt feelings, and my fragile ego is crushed by my former refusal. I am trying to learn what The Plant Formerly Known as Hemigraphis Trian is about, but I suppose that more of it wouldn't have hurt that endeavour.

Seeing how it took me a full 12 hours to see the differences between Polygonum Sao Paulo and Kawagoneum, I need to learn more about plant species!


----------



## chadly

you bruise easily don... kinda like the kid who punches at you while running away to "tell his mom on you". 

lol, no "I kid, I kid" 

I totally think it's cool that you want to grow it yourself. What you have goin looks awesome. I'm jealous of the color you have in that tank.


----------



## Tex Gal

You are a funny guy! I like kidding with you - as long as you don't get too rough.... (I'm fragile too!! You sprinted over my invisible line...) It's ok! We still like you. It won't be long until you have plants running out of your ears and you'll be the one looking to unload them on all or your friends. Let's all make up...:grouphug: 

Now don't stop kidding around... it'll be BORING.. :ranger:


----------



## chadly

OH yeah, almost forgot, DON. What do you mean by "YOU PEOPLE"? You think you got it all right don't you?!!


----------



## Tex Gal

chadly said:


> OH yeah, almost forgot, DON. What do you mean by "YOU PEOPLE"? You think you got it all right don't you?!!


LOL


----------



## vancat

hey don't be callin' TexGal no 'ho. I got her back!
now play nice.
eace:


----------



## krisw

Great looking tank! I think your Michigan Ludwigia is Ludwigia palustris, which is a great plant! Keep showing us updated pictures.


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Nola and Krisw--Thank you both! Palustris, huh? Looks more like ovalis to me, but I haven't been on a good roll ID'ing plants as of late. OK, I've been terrible, so Palustris it is then!

I'm going to try to post some more pics in a bit, hopefully tonight. I got a weird thing growing out of my driftwood that I would like someone to ID for me. Stay tuned.......


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Some more pics of the tank:

Ammania Gracillis









Elantine "America"









Fissidens Fontanus...on a log









Hygrophilia "Bold"









Riccia Mat









Emmersed Pogostemon Yatabeanus


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Does anyone know what this could be? It has been sprouting out of my Malaysian driftwood for about two months. At first, I thought that may have just been grass sprouting from a seed that landed in a nook when I was hosing the driftwood off. It doesn't look like grass though:



















Anyone?


----------



## Jdinh04

Don your tank is looking awesome!! The fissidens I sent you is looking really nice! Great job on recovering it


----------



## FBG

It looks like your Malaysian driftwood is actually alive...

amazing plants and aquarium, keep the photographs coming.


----------



## Tex Gal

Plants look great. Wonder what the spout is. Wouldn't it be funny if it was the tree?! LOL I Think your tank would be just about the right size pot for it!

I didn't know you had Elantine "America"... I got some not long ago myself. It's really grown. I just moved it in my shrimp tank to the back. It's such a fine delicate look.

Loving your tank!


----------



## orlando




----------



## krisw

It sure looks like L. palustris, which is a weed in most ponds on the East Coast. Plus, L. ovalis is an Asian plant, so if you did find it in Michigan, it shouldn't be there. ;-)


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

John-Thanks buddy! The fissidens was really in good shape; just took a few peroxide treatments to rid of some minor hair algae, and the snails and Garras took care of the rest. It is in great shape and doubles in size once per month! I can't imagine how cool the driftwood will be in another few months! 

FBG-Thank you FBG! My feelings on "Sprout" have been confirmed; it is likely just a crabgrass, so it isn't that exciting. I'll let it grow, but I am sure that it will inevitably die on it's own eventually.

TexGal-I love the "Americana"! It is definitely a favorite of mine for the same reasons you have mentioned. It is delicate and looks fastastic when you combine the color and structure with some glassy bubbles when it is pearling. I moved all of it into one big patch yesterday (I had it in two separate groups) to highlight it. This will be nice to grow out more and add different patches to the midground around the aquarium for sure!

Orlando: did we forget to add text?  Not sure what you meant, or if you just wanted to add that picture to this page. HA!!!

Kris-I'm sure you are right about the plant ID. Grows like a weed in my tank, like most everything else. I was telling TexGal last night that I had to throw out a few pounds worth of my different polygonums (Kawagoneum and Ruby) and Ammania after a major trim. Those plants especially just grow and grow and grow. It's like the Terminator.


----------



## Vojs

This tank is amazing, Donald, one of the best shown on APC. And it will be far far better when matures. 

I especially like tank dimensions -first of all the depth of the tank, and the style and composition (ryouboku and central composition is my favorite combination). And plant choice is excellent as well as the growth. 

All the best!


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Thank you very much Vojs! I do appreciate your compliments and everyone else's as well! It means a lot to hear that from you because I know that you are an accomplished aquascaper in your own right. I don't think it is one of the best shown on APC, but I am happy that you like it!

This bears repeating, but I owe a lot of thanks to many people and friends who helped construct the tank, stand, and lights and to friends that provided me with plants and fish!

A plan means nothing if you don't have the right people to help supply you with what you need!


----------



## foofooree

Wow, the tank looks amazing! The light is crazy! Sorry if it has been said already, but how many bulbs are in there and how many watts are they?


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Thanks Foofooree! It's getting there....need more UG!!! 

There are 12 Giesemann bulbs in the pendant; 6 Aquaflora and 6 Daylight that run 12.5 hours per day. Each bulb is 39 watts. This gives me roughly 3.6 watts per gallon. The initial design that I wanted would have had 16 bulbs, but the builder couldn't make that happen. Which is fine, as everything is pretty happy and growing well in there!


----------



## Greenthums

What a spellbinding transformation thus far with your tank. From brand spanking to the beauty it is today. I never grow tired of seeing the next post of progress.
Thanks for sharing.


----------



## dwFISH

Well Don, it's great that you are here in the lou! What a great looking tank. I might say that the tank is better that anything a seen here in STL. Why don't you open a plant store here. 
Can't wait to meet up with you and see the tank in person and maybe steal some clippings while i'm there. LOL


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Thank you Greenthumbs!

Fish--Thank you very much! I wish that I had the time and money to open a plant store. If you want any clippings, let me know! I have a major trim every week or so, and throw a lot of stuff out. You are more than welcome to swing by; just make sure I will be home! 

Pics coming tonight!


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

As promised, I took a lot of pics of the tank today. Probably three new thread's worth, so comments are more than welcome! GO STEELERS!!!

A few notes: The Front foreground is obviously missing a substantial amount of foreground cover. This is because I am experimenting with two types of plants that I am currently trying to grow out; if successful, this will make the tank! But, it is going painfully slow! The "Left side" of the tank is filling out well with UG now, and providing me with plenty of "overgrowth" that I simply snip off and replant in other areas of the tank.

Also, I just started scaping this tank. This is due to the fact that I was familiarizing myself with growth rates, ferts, and fish health. I am at a point where I am comfortable starting to trim the plants to fit where I placed them. The Riccia pad is going to either be given away or thrown out; it is well over an inch thick and would easily be a softball and a half if I rolled it in size. No worries, I am sure that more will grow.

In any event, here are the pics! Please comment!!

Full Tank Shot 2-1-09:









Right Side:









Center:









Left:









Back Left:









Left Front (angled):


----------



## foofooree

S.T.U.N.N.E.R.
lol


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Some More Pics--

Left Oblique:









Right Oblique:









Utricularia-Left Side:









Polygonum Ruby:









"Super Riccia":









Pogstemon Yatabeanus-aerial form:









Crab Grass??


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Last Several:

Kawagoneum:









Lamiaceae Species:









Poly Kawagoneum and Hygro Tiger:









Pogostemon Stellata:









Ludwigia Verticillata sp. Araguaia:









(YOU BEAT ME, FOOFOOREE!!!  THANK YOU!!!)


----------



## foofooree

That riccia is awesome! I love that grass as well, the pink and bright green is really pretty.


----------



## Tex Gal

Can't believe your UG!!! I'm blown away. I have mine in my 10g. It's growing but not like yours!!! I have 2700k spectrum. Don't think it likes that. I just have the screw in florescent. I'm jealous!!


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Thanks again Foo! Just a lucky "bonus" from Mother Nature prior to my purchase, or courtesy of the Missouri prarie and wind.

Tex--Your UG will probably be fine. If it is anything like mine, it took forever for it to adapt and send out runners. I think that UG will grow fine in a 10G with one screw-in bulb. Just blast it with intensity.


----------



## Tex Gal

I have 2 bulbs. They are 16 watt. There is plenty of light it's just the wrong spectrum. Unfortunately these bulbs don't come in any spectrum except 2700 k


----------



## Jdinh04

Looking stunning Don!!!!


----------



## cah925

Tex Gal said:


> Can't believe your UG!!! I'm blown away. I have mine in my 10g. It's growing but not like yours!!! I have 2700k spectrum. Don't think it likes that. I just have the screw in florescent. I'm jealous!!


I too feel the same way. I have mine growing in a 75 gal for about 2 months now. The runners get tangled with each other and form clumps. Last week I upgraded the lights to T5HO and added an inline CO2 diffusor to help with CO2 distribution. Should I pull the clumps out, seperate and try replanting?

I am floored by all your pics and the fantastic growth you have. Keep doing whatever you're doing, it seems to work.


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

I usually take the runners and gently push them into the substrate; I can also "re-direct" their growth by doing this. I would not uproot the clumps. I think this would do more harm than good. You can also trim the runners and replant them separately. 

Thanks John and Cah for the compliments!


----------



## ReefJones

HOW DID I MISS THIS TANK WHILE LURKING??? 
What a great tank congrats it is a stunner! I would LOVE to see it in person! Maybe when I come back home to visit the folks I might have to stop by on my way from Lambert!
Reef


----------



## jeepn4x4

Absolutely stunning. Congrats on one of the nicest tanks I have ever seen.


----------



## Greenthums

Outstanding, and I remember when it was just a baby...oops, I mean empty new tank. Your skills in cultivating this enviable masterpiece are remarkable.:clap2:


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Reef, Jeep, Green: Thank you all for your compliments! There is still plenty to work on, though!!!! It's getting there!


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Reef--you are more than welcome to stop by.....provided you are not a :axe:

Greenthums--trust me, this thing was never a baby! I remember trying to move it when it was "born." Completely empty, the tank must have weighed a freakish amount, maybe 350lbs.? It was god-awful! However, the tank dimensions make it is much more forgiving to scape with.

TexGal--remember that UG is a carnivorous plant; we are dealing with stolons, and not roots with this puppy. This means that is does not take kindly to being dug up and replanted; when I have done this, I have noticed that the entire clump of UG tends to float away on the currents like a balloon. I suggest that you take any runners and push them under the substrate with tweezers to help anchor the clump down, and then take any runners that sprout out of the top, and snip them of and replant them separately. This seems to help the UG to spread in a lateral fashion, and makes it nice and full looking.


----------



## daryn

One day i will have something this size, but its such a shame it will never look anywhere neare as good as yours tho LOL. Its maturing so fast for such a huge tank it looks amazing, well done.


----------



## houseofcards

Donald I think you've received enough accolades and surely IMO the tank is ground breaking in certain respects. I also realize you have just begun to fine-tune the scape, but I think you might need to break up some of the foreground (in your case foreground, mid-foreground, midground, mid-background etc. LOL) with other hardscape otherwise it might appear that you have many rows of plants and or a 'dutch style scape'. Not that there's anything wrong with that!


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Hmm......a good suggestion that is easier said than done, House! I completely see where you are coming from, but there are two potential issues: That is a lot of wood when you consider adding some more hardscape; and two, it runs the risk of making it too "busy" looking where the eye cannot simply take it all in, and instead must jump from place to place figuring out what exactly to look at.

I could see adding a few more pieces of Malaysian driftwood between the Hygro Kompact trailing to the foreground. When I get back from OK City next week, I should have some time to spend at the LFS to see if they have any suitable pieces available. Manzanita branches would look too out of place, and I've never been a fan of "mixing" hardscapes.


----------



## Pinto

You got one AwESOME tank!
Your reds are stunning!!


----------



## goalcreas

That is one serious project.

Impressive, very original. I love it.


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Thank you Goalcreas, Pinto, and Daryn! It has been a serious undertaking, more so than I had thought! The trimming takes at least an hour one day (where I prune stems, net out floating leaves, remove the majority of leaves with any holes, etc.), followed by another half hour of "fine tuning" every week (removing any leaves with holes, and replanting UG runners). I am going to look at breaking up some of the mid-and fore-ground(s) by getting some more DW. We'll see how it goes, but I am a little leery of doing this.


----------



## daryn

I would rather the dutch look but thats a long time trimming stems, looks the dogs so far tho.


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Daryn--Thanks again! I think it important to state that I am not going to make any major changes to the look of the tank by adding the driftwood, rather, I am only going to use it to slightly break up the continuity of tank. They are only going to accent the tank, and not detract from what I have already.


----------



## Supercoley1

I have to say WOW and thats about it really....no I have to say WOW again. lol

If I hadn't read your username I would've though it was one of TBs monster projects. definate Kudos. Don't think I'd be able to manage to control something like that 

AC


----------



## daryn

im useless at scaping myself LOL, no vision thats my problem.


----------



## NowMed

Just when i thought I know what I liked, I saw your tank. You thank is A+ and tank room is nice!


----------



## blackBRUSHalgae

Truely an ecosystem! A very beautiful one.


----------



## Jessie

*cough*jerk.

Just kidding.

HI DON! 

Holy red! I love this tank. As per usual, I'm completely jealous as well.


----------



## Tex Gal

Jessie said:


> *cough*jerk.
> 
> Just kidding.
> 
> HI DON!
> 
> Holy red! I love this tank. As per usual, I'm completely jealous as well.


Jess - you're just adding fuel to the fire! Now he's gonna tell us how great his soil is instead of the ADA stuff. He's gonna go on and on about his "solar system".... 

(Don't tell him but it is pretty incredible!)


----------



## Fishtory

Wow, this is an awesome tank. I have a photo of my "goal" tank saved as my desktop background (from ADA Thailand I think)... yours is very much like it. 

Congrats on creating such a beauty. I've been spending about 2 hours weekly trimming, doing water changes and other maintenance--I thought that was a lot!


----------



## arowanaman

as usuall this tank is looking increadible. what fish are you using in this layout?


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Thanks Jessie, NowMed, and Fishtory for your compliments! Jessie--wish you were around more often....haven't seen you for a while!

Tex---I don't gloat about my mini-Sun hovering a bit above my tank. Again, this is your jealousy taking over!  Just kidding!

Arowana--I have mostly blue-eyes in my tank (Furcata, Gertrudae, and bi-color); I also have Apistogramma Panduro, Red-tail garras, and two different dwarf cories in there.

In more unfortunate news: following a major, MAJOR trim a few weeks ago and due to a buildup of hydrogen sulfide gas in the substrate, the tank has taken a major downturn. I have new plants coming in from TexGal (thank you, Goddess!) and some more driftwood. Once the dust settles, it should be a few more weeks before the tank is photo-worthy again. The crabgrass at top has sent out "flowers" as well, and basically covers 75% of the tank's surface.

So, I have been quiet recently and I hope this explains some of that.


----------



## Tex Gal

Ok, I'll try to tone down the jealousy. I will say that thanks to Niko, I have a light that does now border on your solar system. I am still not skilled enough to power that puppy as long as you do. I don't know that I every will be.  Knowing me I would have 125 gallons of wonderful algae! 

How about a px of your grass and it's flowers! Love to see it.


----------



## Jessie

Good to see ya Don! I'm working on throwing together an update on my tank...and/or get back into it full speed. Took a break because of lack of funds.

I'll probably start a new thread in the Large tanks forums since my other one is WAY TOO LONG NOW.
haha


----------



## zQ.

One of the best square tank i've ever seen my friend ! 
Is that the lighting that make you red stems get more and more red Donald ? And what is your ferts ? Oooh cant wait to see some more update !


----------



## houseofcards

Donald sorry to hear that about the tank. I'm sure you'll get through it. I'm curious about all the layers you choose for the substrate. What was the reason you did that?

_Substrate: 50lbs. of kitty litter; 50lbs. of PowerSand (ADA); 100lbs. Amazonia II Aquasoil (ADA); approx. 150lbs. mineralized soil (courtesy of Kevin Riley); 200lbs. of fine-grade black sand from AquariumSands.com 550lbs of substrate total_


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

House-Over-compensation.  Kitty litter for iron; PowerSand for aeration and biological bacteria bed; Amazonia II for root nourishment; mineralized soil because I wanted to try it; and black sand for "looks." 

To be honest, I think I had my CO2 turned up to high, which caused my filter to freak out and get the hydrogen sulfide trapped, and not the substrate compacting. This would explain the green water I had been getting and the plants not growing and being covered in algae. I just don't think that the plants could compete. I am keeping a very close eye on it, but already I am getting my pearling back.

Thanks again, zQ for the nice compliment! I keep my reds looking nice (until late) simply by having good mix of high nutrient soil, plenty of CO2, and heavy iron and phosphorus dosing. As much as TexGal loves to tease me, I don't really have a "star" burning above my tank. The Giesemann bulbs are great, but it really only equates to having about 3.8 watts per gallon, which IS bright but nothing compared to what I had on my old tanks (4.5 and 5.7 watts/gallon). I think the relatively "shallow" depth has helped maybe?


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

OK....so, it will be a few weeks before updated full tank shots. By then, this tank will be more vivarium than aquatic refuge. Well, I can tell you that this darn crabgrass will be gone by then because it is interfering with my reds, and THAT my friends is "intolerable."

Enjoy it while it lasts......it is good for a cheap laugh!  Seriously, look at what this goofy thing has turned into:

Front shot:









Close Up:









Flower:









Right Side:









Left Side:









Another inflorense:









Look at this HUGE root system! I guess I know why these guys are so hard to kill in your lawn! Holy Smokes!:


----------



## davemonkey

The grass looks beautiful! 

It's not crabgrass, though. Looks like Echinochloa sp. (Barnyardgrass, Jungle Rice, Cockspur grass, etc...)

I'm astonished at how fast it grew. You aquarium water must be VERY fertile!

-Dave


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Whatever it is, it is going to get baled and sold to some of our local dairy farmers as "Super Cockspur grass."


----------



## Tex Gal

ROLF!! :rofl: That is the funniest thing I think I've seen on this forum in a tank! Leave it to you!!! Maybe if you had a pet goat it would all work out!


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

HA! Yeah, a goat or a cow would be very beneficial to me right now!  It just amazes me how Nature finds a way! Who would have thought that such a thing would happen? We as hobbyists are used to seeing moss, riccia, and other mundane plant perhaps slowly creeping up driftwood that may be poking out of the surface. Sometimes we'll see something a bit more exciting and done in a tasteful way. But this has really taken me for a bit of a loop!

I really alternate between "hey, I know it looks a bit messy, but it sure looks cool looking through the leaves of this plant down into my tank" to "Damnit, this thing is going to end up killing everything in there and I am going to destroy it!". I hate to kill it, but it will probably die off on it's own.

Glad to hear that some got a laugh out of this! It really is funny, and like you said TexGal, this could ONLY happen to me.

Anyone have any suggestions? Should I leave it alone for a bit longer? Should I keep it and just trim it? Should I get rid of it? Maybe we should start a poll!


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## Texex94

LOL!!! That's classic. Love the tank and it's terrestrial decoration!


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## davemonkey

It might be neat to try an dkeep it for awhile.  You can trim the main crown down to about 4-6" without any damage. The roots can be trimmed VERY short since they have all the moisture and nutrients they need. All the side shoots can be removed and eventually new ones will form. 

Amano may have his competition now. You've just introduced "True-grass-scapes-on-top-of-aquarium-drift-wood-style". I suppose it will need a shorter and more catchy name. 

-Dave


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Hee! Maybe I'll try trimming it for a bit to see what happens. I doubt that Amano could have done what I did, except I didn't do it on purpose.

Oddly, there are roots forming at the internodes where the shoots are touching the water. I find it strange that a true terrestrial plant would do this, which adds to the confusion as to whether this is a true terrestrial or marginal plant. It is obviously capable of living emmersed. I would sell some, but it is pretty ratty looking. Perhaps I created a new plant species!  We'll call it "EchinhoriaDon-us." $150 per plantlet. HA!!


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## jazzlvr123

cant wait to see some full tank shots. a square 200 gallon is a truly unique size. it has a lot of potential!


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## DonaldmBoyer

That makes two of us, Jazz!

So here is what happened to lead to such a huge algae-filled disaster.

About three weeks ago, both of my UV sterilizer bulbs burned out. This happened around the time I did a MASSIVE trim on the tank (I filled up a lawn-size garbage bag) in order to have the tank ready for my Dad who was coming from Philly to St. Louis for a visit (this past weekend). Around that time, and this was the clincher, my CO2 had connected to my filter caused the filter to cavitate. This cavitation created a HUGE buildup of hydrogen sulfide within my filter. On top of this, I increased my fert dosing to get the freshly trimmed plants a chance to send up some happy new growth. 

So, no UV sterilizer led to green water, GSA, GDA, and some clado. No CO2 led to dimished plant growth. The slow rate of growth meant that the plants could not take of the ferts fast enough, so the algae just went crazy. I am also thinking that if my filter was filling up with a steady supply of hydrogen sulfide gas that that sulfide gas would be dissolving into the water and start killing my plants (but I can't be certain).

Top all of that off with a five day business trip while all of this was going on, (my wife politely kept adding ferts for me in lieu of my absence) and I had a major shocker when I got home! Half of my UG was basically destroyed; ludwigia was rotting at the base; all other plants were covered with heavy GSA; and the glass was nearly opaque green. The water was whitish-haze. It was so disheartening!!

Everything is back to normal, though I have a lot of re-growing to do. I ripped out the rotting UG and planted hairgrass, some more driftwood, and replaced the UV sterilizer bulbs. Couple of water changes, followed by a day of blackout, followed by a few more water changes has really helped. The filter was shut off and re-started which purged the gas out of it (VERY SMELLY!!!!), and keep my CO2 rate slower than I had been. I will be looking for micro-bubbles; as long as I see those, then everything should be cool.

Anyhow, the tank should need a few weeks to re-grow and fill in again. I'll probably trim the Echinhoria Don-us this weekend to a smaller form, and maybe try planting some in the very back of the aquarium to see what happens.


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## Tex Gal

.... wonder if there's any such thing as a goat fish?....


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## Jessie

Maybe a vegetarian relative of the Dorkfish?


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## houseofcards

Don I would just throw an iguana in there and let him eat and bask. I think the tank could handle it.


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## Tex Gal

Hey, if you do this thing right you could arrange tours and charge admission to the "Wild Aquatic Animal Park"!


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## DonaldmBoyer

House--I got the driftwood and some hairgrass to help break up the Dutch-style that was "en-theming" the tank. I tried to get some plants from TexGal, but the St. Louis Post Office MUST be trying to enrage me as they do not deliver such packages promptly and all plants are now dead. In fact, they are deader than I could have possibly imagined.

TexGal- Your plants are deader than I could possibly imagine.  We'll do FEDEx next time. I was so dissappointed when I saw my goofy Postal Delivery lady merrily bobbing her head away with a happy smile on her face carrying my Plant Box of Death. Even before I opened said Box o'Death, I knew that I was not going to be happy.

Anyhow, I feel like by my lastest postings that I am teasing everyone that "tunes in" to see SOME decent pics of the actual tank. Time to lay low on this thread for about a month, AND QUIT TALKING ABOUT IGUANAS AND ANIMAL PARKS!!! I AM NOT GOING TO HOST TOURS WITH DAVID ATTENBOROUGH NARRATING BESIDE IT!

(But it would be pretty cool!)

For the next few weeks, I'll be hopefully getting some more plants, letting the current foreground re-grow, planting a piece of that Don-Grass to see what happens, and doing a major trim on the rest of the Don-Grass.


----------



## studdedsham

You're tank is certainly big enough to encourage David Attenborough to do some filming.


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## DonaldmBoyer

Studdedsham--I would have to say that if it could be arranged for that to happen, I would be the biggest "pimp" here! EVER!!  HA!! For some reason, I don't think that he does fish tanks though. 

On a side note-everything has turned around significantly! Water is crystal clear, algae has "reversed" and is only somewhat noticeable on close inspection. The UG is starting to re-grow and the hairgrass has already sent out a few runners. The DonGrass was trimmed almost down to it's "crown" and looks better. I am also filtering through carbon to finish clearing out those tannins; it will make a bit less mysterious, but easier to view and take pics of. Everything has a trade-off.


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## davemonkey

:smokin: Yeh, DonGrass is some serious grass, man.... :hat:


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## DonaldmBoyer

Dave, my sweet innocent mind has no idea what you are referring to. Man... 

Anyhow the DGrass has been planted and I will be closely monitoring it as best I can. A day after it was planted, it went from a "leaning" position to upright and growing above the surface. It will be interesting to see if it grows runners and how it reproduces under the water's surface.

I would love to get an exact name of this species, but all of my old Audobon books from my Field Biology class simply classify trees, shrubs, or birds (that is completely not helpful!). Dave, you had mentioned Eichinhoria.....any useful link? Does this species adapt to submersed conditions?


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## davemonkey

Echinochloa sp. Aka, barnyardgrass or junglerice. It typically grows in ditches and frequently flooded soils. For a wetland indicator, it's FACW (meaning more often than not, it's found in wet habitats) .My best guess is crus-gali, but it's hard to differentiate them. Here's a link:

http://www.missouriplants.com/Grasses/Echinochloa_crusgalli_page.html

And here's a link to USDA Plants Database, I narrowed it down to all Echinochloa.

http://plants.usda.gov/java/imageGa...eSelect=all&cite=all&viewsort=25&sort=sciname


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## maxima

I think this is the most beautiful tank I've seen ever. 
Nah I don't think so, I KNOW it is so. 
I have always preferred square or at least square-ish tanks and once again it's proven for me. 

However it's well beyond my budget. Bills aside, recently we've had a water problem back in Istanbul and I wouldn't want to add to that by doing water changes for such a huge tank every week. I have a 30g tank and I feel bad even about that one - but I try to compensate by using the dirty water to water the house plants (I have plenty and fish tank water is the best for them). Being on rent doesn't help either ! Having to move that thing to another house would be a nightmare. 
If I lived in another country though and my economical situation was better, I'd definitely have one built. 
So I'm watching this tank the way I'd watch a sci-fi movie - which is quite alright. One can't have everything in life. 

Expenses aside, it's a magnificent sight. But you have to expect that from a Giger fan, don't you ?
:heart:

ps: I think some clown killifish (P. Annulatus) would add much to the beauty of this one.


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## DonaldmBoyer

Dave--Thank you! I will use the link to research this further on Friday (after I get back from Iowa and have some time). If I can finally pinpoint the species within the genus, it will provide with something to go upon instead of simple speculation! Thank yOU!!!

Maxima--the initial costs of everything was, indeed, expensive. I had some money and decided that if I didn't get the tank I wanted, I was never going to. The month-to-month costs are fairly inexpensive (especially if I would quit buying more plants!) and it does satisfy the artistic drive that I have; it is by NO means perfect in any way, but it gives me ample opportunity and space to practice techniques and try new things out. Due to its size and relatively unique dimensions, this tank offers more of a "macroscopic" view of an aquascape and hence, is much more forgiving of mistakes that I make. For example: if I "over-trim" a plant, there is still so much more that the eye can look at. It can make such glaring mistakes less obvious. It was a nightmare to move the tank, but it is well taken care of and I should have it forever if I re-seal the silicone every now and then. It has been worth every penny!

The water changes aren't all that bad, either. I probably change out around 30 gallons per week, but water is cheap where I am. I am sorry to hear that your situation isn't as favorable as mine, which helps provide me with some needed perspective as to how lucky some of us are, though we may not be deserving of it. This makes me feel very thankful, and your comments and compliments strike a certain chord with me. I would like to offer a very heartfelt and sincere "thank you" to you, my friend!

You are also the second person in as many weeks to suggest the clown killies, so I am going to have to consider looking at purchasing them. I had them a few years ago, but they did not live long in the tank I had them in. They would look pretty cool in this system, though!

It is very difficult to incorporate Giger's style into a scape! Even if it were possible to add a touch of "xenobiology" into this tank, everyone would throw their computers out the window and run the other way screaming. It takes an adept mind to appreciate his style and tone. In my drawings, I have been able to incorporate some of his theme into my work with relative success without being too much of a copycat. I have been scaping the next tank layout in my mind that should provide a darker tone, but it is still probably another re-location away (two years-ish or so). I think that it will blow everyone away. Or at least, I hope it will.


----------



## nkambae

:thumbsup: Bravo!! Love your tank! I just 'rediscovered' this thread and have enjoyed reading about your experiment. Especially about the uv, etc. mishaps. If I might posit a theory? It seems to me that the larger the system the more resilient it is to potentially lethal changes. Perhaps there is more margin for error. Just a thought. 

In your list of flora and fauna you mentioned assassin snails and I was wondering if those were the only type you have or if you now have other species which have found their way into your tank via plant additions? Keep up the good work.

stu


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## DonaldmBoyer

Thank you nkambae for the compliment! I know your theory hold true for salt water systems, so I must consider it to be true for fresh water as well. Likely, the only difference is that it is probably easier to see a poor turn in a smaller tank and quickly apply a remedy to that aim. If something goes wrong in a big tank, by the time you notice it, it is going to take a much longer time to fix it and have things get back to normal. There may be more of a margin for error in this regard as well, but good grief; when something gets out of whack like I experienced, it really goes bad quickly! It also takes more work to fix the problem as well. My reason for stating the tank is more forgiving of mistakes is purely made from an aesthetic point of view.

Oh, I have plenty of snails! They are predominantly ramshorn and the "other type" (name?) common to most aquariums. THe "other type" are pretty simple looking: tan shells with some dark spots, get to be about the size of half a fingernail. They are NOT MTS! Unfortunately, I do not have any soil-loosening substrate dwelling snails.

I don't want to say that the assassins are dead, but I have not seen one for quite some time! 

I will post pix of the driftwood and planted Echinochloa stem this weekend; also, I have a new "thingy" that is growing out of the same driftwood that the Echinochloa is. I think that it may be a hydrocotyle species, but I am not 100%, so I will need some help.

Tank pictures are still a few weeks off as I would like the hairgrass I planted a week ago to spread a bit before I snap more shots. I am also receiving some more plants from TexGal on Saturday, and I would like for them to have an opportunity to grow a bit before I post pics of the main tank.

I hope Everyone is doing spledidly; have a great rest of your respective weeks!


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## foofooree

Why not just trim the grass? It's so unique


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## Tex Gal

Plants are one the way.... We hope pxs will be on the way soon too!


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## Jbennett

I don't know if you covered this already, but do you have any problems with water flow or managing CO2 concentration in the tank? Ever since I got into this i've thought the coral show tanks at the LFS would be great for a planted aquarium. Great work.


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## DonaldmBoyer

Jbennett--

Thanks!  I do not have problems with my water flow; I have a Fluval FX5 canister plus a Magnum 350. Really, all I need is the FX5 because that filter is a MONSTER!!! It provide a a nice gentle flow around the tank, and the CO2 is injected directly into this filter. I had one problem with cavitation about a month ago because I was running the CO2 too fast, but otherwise it has worked very well. I do not use drop checkers as I am accustomed to viewing pearling rates and making adjustments accordingly. As long as I don't run the CO2 too fast I will be ok. But, as I learned the hard way, you do have to check on everything a few times per week just to make sure you aren't about to experience something tragic!


----------



## MB2

Beautiful tank. Thanks for taking the time to share.


----------



## Knotty Bitz

Thats a mad sick tank how much did that thing cost for set up?


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## maxima

So...When do we get to see those inspired-by-Giger sketches ?


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

MB2--Thank you! There should be some more pics this coming weekend or early next week.

Knotty-- Thank you, but it may be inappropriate to say. Let's just say it cost "a lot"! But, it is an investment, and I won't need another one.

Maxima--True "Giger-esque" sketches were all sold a very long time ago. What I have left would probably be considered more "goth-inspired." My avatar picture is one that I drew several years ago which is part of a bigger picture. I have another one that I believe is in Photobucket which I'll post or PM you, if you wish. Not really my "best" work; merely one that I never sold. Most people wouldn't like it as the pic. is darker themed. I don't think it is really all that bad. I should start creating more pieces this Summer though; they will be for a script my brother-in-law and I are writing (he will be working at LionsGate for script publications--HA! Lucky break for me!). Maybe I'll post some down the road.


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## sweetshannon

This is only my 2nd post......after reading many threads. This is amazing!~
It is a bit intimidating to a beginner, but gets my juices flowing. I am ready to go to the fish store right now! Stunning.


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## DonaldmBoyer

Shannon-- I am happy that you found some inspiration with this thread, but it is hardly intimidating!!! We all start off with the Basics: learning about plants, lights, ferts, substrates, appropriate fish, etc., and build upon what we have learned. This thread is the culmination of ten years of knowledge to date with (I guess!) a natural artistic gift. And it is still not great! It is (and may always be) "good" to even "very good" depending on when I take the pics. The goal is always to take it to the "next level" by building upon past experience and knowledge.

So, PLEASE go to your LFS and educate me!!!  I hope that you will form a tank that will obliterate mine in aesthetic appeal because I am always looking for new techniques or information that I can add to my own foundation. There are always better ways to do things, always more data and information to learn, and always will be fellow hobbyists that will be better than I am. This is a reality! But if I can benefit and improve upon my current skill set, then so much the better!


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## Bunbuku

Don

How are you trimming/controlling your UG? Mine is really starting to take off and its "eating" my HC, just like this one from Oliver Knott here http://www.pbase.com/plantella/hc60

To me its no big deal that this is happening since the HC was only a place holder until the UG starts grow out. Its growing thick/dense where the plugs were initially planted then sort of "flows" down to the foreground as its sends out runners. Should I leave it alone or try to thin it out?


----------



## orlando

Don is a plant whisperer. He tames his plants to do as he commands.

Thats what I think he does anyway. This tank is jammin awesome 

-O


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## DonaldmBoyer

Oddly, TexGal and I discussed this very subject this morning. We arrived at the consensus that you simply trim it like mowing your lawn. Evidently, you can just trim to shape it to your liking. I wouldn't trim it too short, as it would likely kill part of the clump. If you are letting it turn into the foreground, I would simply leave it alone to grow.

I will let you know after a few days how it took to the trimming; it should grow back "fuller", or at least that is what I have read. Or at least, that is what I whisper to them. 

Thanks Orlando!


----------



## dhavoc

DonaldmBoyer said:


> Oddly, TexGal and I discussed this very subject this morning. We arrived at the consensus that you simply trim it like mowing your lawn. Evidently, you can just trim to shape it to your liking. I wouldn't trim it too short, as it would likely kill part of the clump. If you are letting it turn into the foreground, I would simply leave it alone to grow.


first off, just came across this thread and tank is awsome. wish i had the room for one, not to mention the time to care for it....

as for the UG, you can IME trim it like any lawn plant (HC, dwarf hair grass). i use a standard scissors or one of those hand held grass shears for your yard. it grows back fine and bushier than ever. you need to thin it out or it starts to "pile" on itself and will eventually get so thick the bottom layer holding it down will die and rot, then the whole layer starts a floating away. same as what HC does when you let it get too thick. love that elatine americana, let me know when you want to sell some..... again, great looking setup!


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Havoc--Tank you for the compliments, but MOST importantly, thank you for your advice! Since this is the first time I have had UG, I've never had to trim it before and I was a bit nervous about it. I was not sure how it would react to it, and I am a little relieved to learn that I didn't mess up with it! Whew!


----------



## dhavoc

it may look like crap for a while till the new growth comes in but thats the only way to control it or you have to pull it all up and start over again. from what i have seen mine do, the new leaves are not actually the original plants but new runners that fill in the newly opened space you create by triming the existing growth. its still piling on itself though and eventually you may need to replant via plugs again.


----------



## Fabac

This is awesome tank! I really like its dimensions and the way you decorate it, truly a masterpiece!
About the UG, how often it has to be trimmed and could you please post pictures of the triimed UG?


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## MagpieTear

Too many words, not enough pics. :wink:


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## hooha

MagpieTear said:


> Too many words, not enough pics. :wink:


lol

well technically, if a picture is worth a thousand words, then there's another 30 or so pictures


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## JapanBlue

WOW, very impressive Tank!

Looking forward to see it in its final state...


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Thank all of you for your very nice comments and conversation. I agree with Magpie. However, between my job travel, getting new plants, taking out old plants, UG problems, tank problems, hosting family and friends visiting in St. Louis, etc., etc. it is VERY difficult to either find time to take new photographs when the tank is photo-worthy or when I do have time, there is something that doesn't look photo-worthy quite yet. So, I apologize if this thread is bordering on "less art, more matter" but most people are more forgiving of my schedule as of late.

After a friend leaves tomorrow from St. Louis back to Detroit, I have to get ready and go to Cleveland for a few days. When I get back, I have to split some plants into groupings, make sure the UG is coming back alright. Next Sunday, I have to fly to Pittsburgh, drive to West Virginia, drive back to Pittsburgh and spend a few days there before flying back that Wednesday. Then, I am HOME for the better part of two weeks. Pending any sort of tank disaster, I will have time to photograph my tank which should be tank ready during that time frame.

There is NO POINT in taking photos of the tank right now until TexGals plants are ready and the UG has returned to form. It is not ready, and taking pics of crappy looking UG is not going to impress anyone and make the tank look sub-standard.


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## MagpieTear

Pittsburgh? Why for you be in the city of Mostly Cloudy? Maybe the PAPAS people can entertain you for the evenings. If you know where you're staying while here, post up in the PAPAS section of the board. I'm sure someone can set aside the time to meet up if you're going to be trapped in a hotel somewhere.


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## DonaldmBoyer

You know what, that's not a bad idea!

I will be staying at the Holiday Inn on the Pitt campus. If anyone is interested in meeting up, PM me. They have a very nice restaurant at the hotel, and I should be free for dinner next Monday night.

The address is: 100 Lytton Avenue; 15213 is the Zip Code. There is a parking structure on the same side of the street that is pretty reasonable. Let me know


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## hooha

Sounds like a plan to me!  So that's March 23?


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## DonaldmBoyer

Nifty!! I didn't think anyone would accept! 

Sounds like dinner around 6:00pm. I figure that I'll leave Morgantown around 1-2pm and drive up which should put me in Pittsburgh around 4pm. I'll do a quick run, shower, and meet you(s) in the lobby around 6 or 7pm? How does that sound? Should I address you as "Hooha" or "Mr. Hooha"? Are you fond of "Barty"?


----------



## hooha

7pm would work better for me, I'l russle up some other PAPAS members to chew the fat (hopefully figuratively and literally for me).

You may address me as Dr. Hooha, sir! Yes sir!  or call me F.....works either way for me.


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## DonaldmBoyer

7pm it is! How cool is that! Thank you, Sir Dr. Hooha! As I said in the thread I just posted in PAPAS, I'm not sure how impressed you'll be with me, but this will be fun to meet some Pittsburghians! I spend the earliest years of my life growing up about two hours north of Pittsburgh, most of my family lives there today, and so it is always nice to "come home" from time to time.


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## Tex Gal

.... I feel left out!


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## MagpieTear

LOL, figures, Monday night is the one night I can't get out. Well, y'all enjoy!


----------



## eco-mod

Tex Gal said:


> .... I feel left out!


At least you have people within a reasonable vicinity of you and live near places people may actually want to go!!! EC, WI is not one of those kinda places! I have to drive a minimum of an hour to get anywhere there are enough people to find a common interest with!


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## demen45

Very interesting to see how the tank evolved...Keep up the good work


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## joshua_pope2001

Hey Don,

Long time no see..... Do you have any recient pics of the tank?


----------



## DonaldmBoyer

Hi Josh! 

Well, the reason behind no pics for the last month or so has been due to the fact that my FX5 filter keeps cavitating; it seems as though it cannot handle chopping up my CO2, even though I have it on a very low bubbles/second rate. Hence, all the plants are just in a weird sort of stasis right now; they are slowly growing, with the bottoms halves getting covered in GSA or clado. I just do not take pics when the tank is not living up to expectations.

The great news is that Orlando has helped me in an immense fashion. He has shipped a nice needle wheel pump with a Venturi CO2 connection in it, and I have some very nice inflows/outflows coming this week as well. The outflow will be a spray bar, and should distribute my CO2 "mist" quite nicely.

I will be home for a few weeks in a row beginning this Wednesday evening; I will have to do a massive replanting and algae treatment after assembly of the pump system. If this CO2 system is even half as good as I think it will be, I should be able to show pics in about two week's time.

Otherwise, I have been under constant travel and it has proven to be difficult to keep a step ahead of the problems that have been plaguing me over the past six weeks. But, I think I should be all set now! Watching this tank slowly rotting away has been the bane of my existance lately, but I am very close to a resolution to these issues.

A HUGE THANKS TO TEXGAL AND TO ORLANDO FOR ALL OF THEIR HELP AND PATIENCE LAST WEEK!!!!!!! Without Tex referring me to Orlando, and without Orlando's extreme amount of patience in holding my hand and constantly having to explain what I needed to buy and how to set the system up this tank would be in serious jeapardy! Luckily for me, this is where my extreme weaknesses in learning the mechanics of a permenant resolution become embarassingly obvious, and I can count on my fellow hobbyists and friends to lend me a hand.

So, to TexGal and Orlando: THANK YOU BOTH!!!! YOU ARE THE BEST!!!


----------



## Tex Gal

So glad to hear that you came up with a solution! I'm really anxious to find out how it will work for you. If anyone can help you work it out, I know Orlando can do it! His systems are so tempting!!! 

Can't wait to see your tank just take off!


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## Bert H

Don, hopefully once you have this new system set up, you can do a thread on it explaining and showing the rest of us exactly what it is you did. I'd love to know exactly what it is you're setting up.


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## DonaldmBoyer

I will explain further.....I set it up today, in fact! But, I've been in the ER twice this week for my back, so allow me to recover for a few more days from my diagnoses "sprained lumbar" and "sciatica." When I am not in pain, I am looking at Life as one of those cartoon-videos by the Beatles. Thank you, Percocet!!!! :hail: 

I will try to trim the tank this weekend in stages. Since I'll be home, I will take some pics of the set up and do some explaining.


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## Tex Gal

So sorry you are sick. At least that will give you time to lay there and look at your tank and ruminate about where to move what...

Looking forward to hearing about the new equipment. My two new Eheim 2217's just aren't cutting it for my 125g. I'm looking for what I should get to replace them and how to do it. Just when you think you have it all figured out - you don't!


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## joshua_pope2001

Sorry to hear you are not doing well.... Looking forward to the update when you are up to it.......


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## Tex Gal

Hey Don! How's it going? How's the back? How's the tank? Sure hope you are feeling better by now!


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## DonaldmBoyer

Hi TexGal!

Thank you for your "well-wishing"! Unfortunately, the back is still giving me a lot of grief! It is slowly improving, but still incredibly sore! I have started to go to a Neuromuscular therapist. It has helped a bit, but again, the stiffness just seems to be hanging around. My X-Rays were "negative" for anything super-serious, like a crushed vertabrae, slipped disk, etc., so it will just take time for it to heal.

As a result, I have been able to do water changes and a trim to one side of the tank, but since it hurts to lean, I have not been able to do much in the way of a ton of pruning. Algae is rampant, but not irreversible. It just doesn't look great, and will need a lot of attention when I am able to give it.


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## Tex Gal

So glad to hear it's nothing super serious. Sounds like you really had some muscle spasms or something. 

As for your tank, just introduce it to Super Excel Man and I'm sure he will keep things in check until you are better. You know all the drills. First and foremost obey your doctor and get better!


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## davemonkey

Hey, Don! It's good to hear it's not super serious. I have back spasms once in a while from a compressed vertabrae (some childhood fall or something) and it usually lasts for a couple or three weeks. (Actually, I think most of my problem now is that I've gotten WAAYYY out of shape. )

Anyway, I hope you get well soon.

-Dave


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## foofooree

Hey Don, how are things doing? Is the tank still running?


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## Ben7

Wow, incredible tank. I would be curious to see a pic if it is still set up.


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## Tex Gal

I haven't heard from Don in many months. I even tried emailing him but got nothing. I hope it's just life interfering with fun.


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