# Professional aquascapers & algae - experiences?



## Poe835 (Sep 16, 2004)

I always wonder how professional aquascapers (ie. ADG et. al.) deal with algae in their customer's tanks. If I imagine myself as a client who may know nothing about the diffculties of maintaining planted tanks, I would probably be pretty frustrated to see a prolonged algae problem (green dust, hair, etc) in a tank I pay good money for them to setup and maintain. From experience, I know that some algae problems can take a while to get rid of (perhaps due to my lack of skills). So how do you guys deal with the client as well as the algae issue? Especially when you only have time to service the client's aquarium once a week or less, things can get out of hand pretty bad. Do you warn the client that there may be some algae outbreak during the initial setup period or something to manage their expectations? Have you had a client's aquarium where you ran into persistant algae problems? If so, what did you do? Anyway, it would be great if you can share your experiences.


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## jsenske (Mar 15, 2004)

I get this question a lot. My answer, unfortunately is likely not so helpful, though! At this point, I simply do not get algae problems anymore. I don't allow it! Everything is controlled from day one-- lighting, CO2-- shrimp and O-cats are added, plus maybe nerite sp. snails and SAEs are introduces within the first 7-10 days. All new installations are getting a visit every 3-5 days also, to stop a problem before it starts. Aside from the usual minor brown diatomaceous algae-- which O-cats quickly devour, or some minor green thread-- which shrimp and frequent water changes deal with quickly-- I am not having many algae problems lately at all. Espcially since switching to ADA substrate, the plants take off so fast that now I have that on my side as well. 

I keep the water column VERY lean in the first few weeks also. Almost wothout fail, it's when I dose too heavily too quickly that I get algae problems. So I don't do that anymore!

Of course we consult with new clients extensively before any new installation, so they are generally prepared for any issues in the early stages. 
Most clients thatreally want a planted tank anyway tend to be a "different breed" than others. They usually just "get it" and know that a planted tank is about patience, and the long run (6-9 months often before fully realized). 

I have found there are very few algae problems you cannot get rid of with: 
1. early detection-- perhaps the most important
2. WATER CHANGES
3. Fert/water column control 
4. Cutting back a bit on light until the problem subsides (maybe shaving an hour off the photoperiod). 

Think about what you might have done to have the problem in the first place.

I also avoid adding fish until at least the 4th week. Not having a lot fish and not having to fee dthem just keeps things lean, and algae at bay while the plants get a foot-hold. 

maybe this explains it a little, maybe this sparks other questions. I am happy to expand on any of it!


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## chrisl (May 24, 2004)

Great information Jeff! Very useful and timeful 

'shrimp and O-cats are added, plus maybe nerite sp. snails and SAEs are introduces within the first 7-10 days'

What kind of shrimp do you use? How many per gal for the lot of these? Do you have set parameters?

Chris


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## Poe835 (Sep 16, 2004)

Jeff,
Thanks so much for the information. I always wonder how you guys got nice, clean thanks consistently day-in, day-out. Do you use only the ADA line of fertlizers? The instructions on the bottle recommends you dose everyday. Sometimes people dose 3x/week. However, since you guys see the tank every week or so, do you just add ferts once/week? Is that sufficient? Thanks again.


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## jsenske (Mar 15, 2004)

Glad it helped a little! 
I use the regular "Amano" shrimp or Caridinia japonica. In terms of how many-- I guess I just eyeball it these days. I'd say in a 20 gallon tank I would start out with 12-15 shrimp. 
I use ADA ferts on those tanks where the client has a clue and is able to add them at my prescribed schedule. Otherwise I am back to mainly SeaChem on my older tanks and ones I only see once a week or so (and client dosing is not an option). The tanks here in the gallery all get ADA except the big 225 gal. open top. 
Depending on the layout, some get daily dosing, others every other day or so. I vary it according to observation and common sense judgement.


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## Poe835 (Sep 16, 2004)

Thanks again for the explanations Jeff. Now your reply actually raised more questions. It seems you very much favor the "lean water column" approach, and no doubt that it works for you. I'm still trying to understand why this works since the "lean" method is pretty much the opposite from Tom's EI method. You, Amano, and many folks uses the "lean" method without algae and seems to believe that excess nutrients in the water column causes algae. Tom and many EI folks, on the other hand, seems to believe that starving the plants causes algae. Since both sides don't have algae, there must be something going on here. In some of Amano's tanks, the NO3 concentration says <1mg/l! Any idea why the "lean" method doesn't result in stunted plants? Perhaps having sufficient trace elements is more critical? Maybe that's why most of the commercial fertilizers out there (Flourish, TMG, ADA) mainly focuses on trace elements?


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## violentray (Jul 20, 2005)

when i first read the reply and mentioning the lean water colum, i thought that it was a typo and meant Clean.

can you explain the Lean water colum. and what exactly is the "water colum" and how it the water colum different that the tank water?


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

I think amano went to the jungles and figured out plants were getting their nutrition from the soil mostly as rain water has little nutrients because it rains a lot in the tropics. just a guess. 

regards

stan


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## Alin10123 (Jan 3, 2006)

violentray said:


> when i first read the reply and mentioning the lean water colum, i thought that it was a typo and meant Clean.
> 
> can you explain the Lean water colum. and what exactly is the "water colum" and how it the water colum different that the tank water?


I think by lean water he means minimum fertilizers. This way the plants use up almost all of it and are maybe even slightly short on nutrients. This way there's nothing left for the algae to start up with.


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## jsenske (Mar 15, 2004)

violentray said:


> when i first read the reply and mentioning the lean water colum, i thought that it was a typo and meant Clean.
> 
> can you explain the Lean water colum. and what exactly is the "water colum" and how it the water colum different that the tank water?


The water column is the water in the tank, just another way to refer to it I guess.

The others are correct in their assessment of "lean" water column. I guess my approach is more based on observation of plant health, and observation has led me to a point where I just do not feel like I am adding a lot of liquid fertilizer to the aquarium water. Now I have a 120cm ADA-everything tank with a lot of stemmed plants that gets a full recommended dose of ADA Step 2 and Brighty K, plus after water changes, a full dose of ECA and Green Gain (ADA again) . Does this qualify as "lean"? I'm not sure. Any "lean: dosing I have done has been with ADA substrate-- which in the end I think is supplying more nutrition than other commonly used substrates, so you do not need as much liquid fert. 
Most everyone I have dealt with that was having a problem after switching to ADA substrate were going too heavy on the liquids. In other words, when they cut back or switched to ADA liquid regimen, their issues subsided. I don't think many of us are used yet to the idea of the substrate providing more of the nutrition. I know I wasn't, though I have nevr used EI method and I was never one to do a lot of water column dosing beyond the SeaChem line, once per week after water changes. For client tanks, that's all I really could do. My tanks back then definitely took a lot longer to come into form, and I probably had more deficiency issues that I just did not know what specifically they were. What I did find in almost every case (and I used to tell myself this ALL the time)- with diligence and persistence of good weekely maintenance, my tanks always eventually got there. Sometimes it took 6-9 months, but eventually they all turned the corner and come into form. I just stayed at it, and didn't freak out every time things were not perfect for a few weeks. I really never had algae problems at all either. More of just slow growth or less than desirable growth, but again, that always evetually changed with diligence of maintenance.


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for sharing. Seems a good and safe way as some people I know from pm's have said overdosing have brought disastrous results from their ignorance/mistakes.[will not elaborate!]

High density planting + lean dosing in the beginning makes sense.

Regards

Stan


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

When I setup a planted tank for someone else I usually include a dual autodoser, one for micros and one for macros. It adds to the cost but it's not that much more given the total cost with CO2, lights, plants etc.

I just hate risking that a tank may bottom out on ferts...


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## chrisl (May 24, 2004)

Jeff, how many Nerite snails per gal. do you use? And do you keep them in there permanently? Same question for the Otos? 

Thanks Jeff
Chris


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