# El Natural w/EcoComplete



## schaadrak (Aug 18, 2006)

I bought a bag of EcoComplete and I was wondering if I need to use soil with it, or if it would supply enough of the nutrients the plants need. The reason I ask is since most of the plants I'll be growing take up nutrients from the water column and I was going to make a reverse-flow UGF. 

The UGF will also act as a snail refugium since I would like to keep a dwarf puffer in there as well and I don't want it desimating their populations. I got that idea from a african cichlid tank I had with a snail infestation and there were more snails under the UGF than ther were in the rest of the tank, eating whatever grows down there. I might drill a couple holes in the stand to put a small light that would shine through the bottom on a reverse photo period and grow some algae down there for them to eat.That would be on a reverse photo-period, so they don't compete with the plants for CO2.

As you can see I've put a little thought into this, but it all hinges on the plants being sustained on EcoComplete and gravel alone. And just a warning, if you plan on steering me away rom this approach, I am stubborn enough to try it anyways unless I get a clear "Absolutely not," from people. But aren't most people?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Tschuss,
Kent


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## flagg (Nov 29, 2004)

I think that if you used soil with a reverse-flow UGF you'll wind up with a huge mess on your hands. I'd go w/out the soil. I'd also worry about clogging the UGF w/ the sand in the eco-complete, though w/ the UGF set up w/ a reverse-flow it might not be a problem. I think it's an interesting idea, though I'd never set up a planted tank w/ a reverse-flow UGF. Might work if your plants all take up nutrients from the water column more than the substrate. I'd also keep an eye out to make sure that you don't get so much algae that your UGF gets clogged.

-ricardo


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## mrbelvedere138 (Jan 18, 2006)

schaadrak said:


> I bought a bag of EcoComplete and I was wondering if I need to use soil with it, or if it would supply enough of the nutrients the plants need. The reason I ask is since most of the plants I'll be growing take up nutrients from the water column and I was going to make a reverse-flow UGF.
> 
> The UGF will also act as a snail refugium since I would like to keep a dwarf puffer in there as well and I don't want it desimating their populations. I got that idea from a african cichlid tank I had with a snail infestation and there were more snails under the UGF than ther were in the rest of the tank, eating whatever grows down there. I might drill a couple holes in the stand to put a small light that would shine through the bottom on a reverse photo period and grow some algae down there for them to eat.That would be on a reverse photo-period, so they don't compete with the plants for CO2.
> 
> ...


I think you are setting yourself up with a tank that is far more (needlessly) complicated than any high tech setup.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

schaadrak said:


> I bought a bag of EcoComplete and I was wondering if I need to use soil with it, or if it would supply enough of the nutrients the plants need. The reason I ask is since most of the plants I'll be growing take up nutrients from the water column and I was going to make a reverse-flow UGF.


The consensus seems to be that one shouldn't mix soil and the "boutique" substrates like Flourite, Eco, etc.

Eco will not supply enough of the nutrients that plants use. People who use it also do water column dosing. Here is one of the several links on the topic of Eco and water column fertilization: http://tropicalresources.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=118494&

Google is your friend.

Most plants can get nutrients from either the water column or the substrate, or both. (My experience is that some prefer those from the substrate, but water column works too, perhaps augmented with substrate pellets.)



> The UGF will also act as a snail refugium since I would like to keep a dwarf puffer in there as well and I don't want it desimating their populations. I got that idea from a african cichlid tank I had with a snail infestation and there were more snails under the UGF than ther were in the rest of the tank, eating whatever grows down there. I might drill a couple holes in the stand to put a small light that would shine through the bottom on a reverse photo period and grow some algae down there for them to eat.That would be on a reverse photo-period, so they don't compete with the plants for CO2..


Tom Barr has grown plants successfully in tanks with RFUG's. But note that these work by forcing the material that would stay below the plates up and through the substrate. The area under the plates would be relatively clean, so there wouldn't be much there for any trapped snails, and soil in the substrate would be pushed into the water.

Why would you want to keep snails beneath the plates? What would they accomplish?



> As you can see I've put a little thought into this, but it all hinges on the plants being sustained on EcoComplete and gravel alone. And just a warning, if you plan on steering me away rom this approach, I am stubborn enough to try it anyways unless I get a clear "Absolutely not," from people. But aren't most people?


LOL. As I said earlier, plants will not do well with Eco (and fish) as the sole source of nutrients. They will last for a while but long term, they will require water column fertilization to survive.

I have to add that a consensus seems to be emerging that most (if not all) of the "special" (and expensive) substrates add very little to an aquarium except appearance, if one likes what they look like. Of course, most aquascapers will say that the substrate should not be seen anyway, so . . .

Let us know what you decide and how it works out.

Bill


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## schaadrak (Aug 18, 2006)

Thanks for the responses guys. AfterI posted lasted night, I read some more threads in this forum and had half talked myself out of doing this set-up in this tank. It's too small to sustain what I had in mind.
I did find a lot of information that I could not find five years ago when I still had a 55 gallon. I just wish I had found this site, and this forum in particular, before I had sold it. Oh well, I have found a lot of good advice and wonderful inspiration, so look for a new NPT tank from me in the near future.

Tschuss,
Kent


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## Tiapan (Jun 14, 2006)

im in disagreance about using both a special substrate and soil. o have mixed flourite along with potting soil with my 60 gallon and am seeing the best plant growth i am ever having.the el natural approach is no inserting chemical fertilization and just heavy feeding so all the eco will do is add iron, my crypts are doing so well it boggles all those who look at the new leaves constantly growing. i add no ferts, and my water colomn feeders are at the top and haqve been pruned back, the tank has been up 3 months and they started at the bottom of the tank (were spare clippings from work). i did the elnatural approach of caping the soil with the flourite after mixing some in and around the potting soil to spread out some iron. seems to be working great. but i wouldnt do it with the UGF. reverse or not. if you need a snail breader just set up a little bucket with some moss in it. then you can trade the excess moss to friends lol.


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## cs_gardener (Apr 28, 2006)

I have eco complete over soil in three tanks, the longest setup is over a year old and doing great. I used the eco complete because gravel is too large and I was not willing to try and hunt down a different suitable cover for the soil; I wanted to use something designed for aquarium use. The eco is very easy to plant through, much more so than the aquarium gravel I have in one tank. It also keeps the soil under it better than the gravel. So for my part, it was laziness and liking the look of the eco as a cover material. I wouldn't use it alone, or with an UGF (reverse or not). Good luck with your tank.


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