# JKDs 60P



## joshd (Oct 16, 2009)

I have decided to put a ADA 60P in my office at work and move the old 20g tall AGA tank back home. It is going to be a slow transition as I attempt to put this 60P together as well as possible. Just received the tank along with some aqua soil, power sand, garden mat, and some ADA ferts (gotta say I am really impressed with the customer service at the ADGshop). I am planning on building a natural birch finished ADA style stand (it will match the custom desk I built). The tank will probably have an Eheim 2215, with some form of lily pipes. It will utilize my current 5# CO2 tank and regulator (still deciding on diffusion). I am also still trying to decided on lighting, but will either be a 2x or 4x 24" T5 HO. I do plan on moving my school of Harlequin Rasbora into the tank once it is going, along with a pack of pygmy cory and some otos. Might also try some CRS. The existing 20g has 100+ RCS even with the 18 rasbora in there. 

I'd love thoughts on suggested equipment (keep in mind that my budget is small hence the slow process). I am leaning toward a triangular layout with manzanita wood and the dense planting on one end of the tank. I will likely set this end of the tank against the wall and have both long sides of the tank for viewing.

I'd also be very open to suggestions on plants :-k. Sorry this is kinda long winded for not having much yet, but I just got the tank in this morning and I am a bit excited\\/.


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## doubleott05 (Jul 20, 2005)

your slacking we need pictures now!!!! 


lol... i wish i could have another tank... i have three (twitches) and i neeeeeed another one(my wife says otherwise and so does my electric bill)


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## joshd (Oct 16, 2009)

So I have been pretty quiet on this front for a bit, but just yesterday finished my stand!!! It is made to match my desk. Once it is all set up they will be side by side (i.e. these pics are not where the tank will be staying). Here are a couple pics. I will be moving the 20g hopefully today and then playing with some hardscapes. I will probably ask for some opinions on them in the next day or 2. I have everything except the plants for it at this moment.


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## joshd (Oct 16, 2009)

So I now have the tank in place. Here is where she will be for good.










And here are a couple pics of my proposed hard scape. Let me know what you all think.


















Tell me how you would change it. Looking for constructive feed back. Also, I will be moving the powercord on the light to the otherside. I had wired it in with the tank turned 180° but changed as I was moving the tank into place.

Thanks


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## joshvito (Apr 6, 2009)

have you tried sloping your substrate higher near the wall, and having the branches and rocks emerge from the slope?

IMO, your current layout is very symmetrical.
The branches are great, and suit the shape of the tank.

by the way, Beautiful stand!


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## joshd (Oct 16, 2009)

joshvito said:


> have you tried sloping your substrate higher near the wall, and having the branches and rocks emerge from the slope?


I had originally planned on doing that, but per the advice of an aqua-scaper that I admire I tried it this way and liked the island feel.



joshvito said:


> IMO, your current layout is very symmetrical.
> The branches are great, and suit the shape of the tank.


So it the symmetry a good thing?



joshvito said:


> by the way, Beautiful stand!


thanks much. I am happy with how it turned out.


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## joshvito (Apr 6, 2009)

I personally don't like symmetry. It's a personal preference, I was referring to the idea, if the layout was sloped, it wouldn't be so symmetrical. 

I think if you are inspired by another aquascaper, follow your inspiration! Have fun with it. This hobby is all about inspiration and experimentation.


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## Gordonrichards (Apr 28, 2009)

I think it looks nice. I take it you'll be putting some shrimp inside eventually?

Its going to be great once you plant it out, good luck with your new tank!

-Gordon


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## joshd (Oct 16, 2009)

Gordonrichards said:


> I think it looks nice. I take it you'll be putting some shrimp inside eventually?
> 
> Its going to be great once you plant it out, good luck with your new tank!
> 
> -Gordon


Thanks Gordon. And I will certainly have some shrimp in there. I currently have a VERY strong colony of RCS in the 20G that this tank is replacing, but I'd really like to try a mixed batch of crystal black shrimp and crystal red shrimp.

I am currently planning on having needle leaf java fern in the middle of all the DW. I will also incorporate some peacock moss on the DW, and hopefully get some anubius nana and nana petite in the mix.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Really nice job with the stand joshd! Having a tank viewable from both sides of the tank does pose a challenge, particularly in perceived field depth. In a standard layout having the substrate high in the back sloping to down low to the front creates an illusion of depth. In your case it seems most natural to have a triangular layout

I agree with joshvito about having the substrate higher on the office wall side of the tank, then having it slope downwards. You could use a pile of different sized (but the same kind) of rocks to make a retaining wall to hold the high substrate, then transition over to a gravel foreground for bit of contrast.

BTW houseofcards is a good source of several of the plant types you mentioned.


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## joshd (Oct 16, 2009)

So here is another layout, but I am kinda leaning towards the 1st one.














































I'd love to hear what you all think.

Thanks - Josh


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## leena_aries (Jul 4, 2010)

Your tank set up looks nice and am new to aquascaping, so am surely gonna try the set up like your soon. Good work and yeah once you have plants and shrimps in that, it will surely look so peaceful and awesome to watch.

Regards
Leena


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## ryan10517 (Apr 28, 2010)

i like the second layout a little better. i think you need to keep that layout but move your driftwood and rocks a little further away from the glass closest to the wall. Looks good so far.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

2nd one looks nice too! In the end its your preference that counts. I still think you need a lot more rocks no just for the scape sake, but also to stabilize all those branches so they do no shift or move around as you add water, plants etc. 

Also important to have a even slope of the substrate. I use a 6" or 12" ruler to even things up so it looks neat. 

Regarding placement of the aquarium, why directly in front of a door? Just askin'


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## joshd (Oct 16, 2009)

Thanks for the comments so far. I appreciate getting your opinions.



Bunbuku said:


> 2nd one looks nice too! In the end its your preference that counts. I still think you need a lot more rocks no just for the scape sake, but also to stabilize all those branches so they do no shift or move around as you add water, plants etc.


I will definitely take your advice and use more rocks for stability. I've had issues with that in other tanks. I am actually slightly leaning towards the 1st hardscape, but will probably try one more round before deciding.



Bunbuku said:


> Also important to have a even slope of the substrate. I use a 6" or 12" ruler to even things up so it looks neat.


I got a bit rushed on this layout. I had some looming work but still wanted to try another look. I have a make shift substrate smoother that I will use to make it look nice and smooth. Sorry about that.



Bunbuku said:


> Regarding placement of the aquarium, why directly in front of a door? Just askin'


The biggest reason for having it right in front of the door is because it gives the best viewing from my desk (selfish I know), and its hard to tell from the pics but it will allow nice viewing for people walking by. My door is only shut when I'm not in.


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## hedson_25 (Sep 20, 2005)

small branches are kind of tricky in the moment to place them, think well their arrangement and what kind of plants (leaves shapes and size) in order to achive the best out of them.


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## joshd (Oct 16, 2009)

So here is a layout close to the 1st one except my island is stretched. Thoughts?




























Also, I am not trying to drag this out. I am going out of town for a funeral tomorrow, so I wont be filling the tank until next week. I do have some plants on the way, in addition to the ones that are already in my existing tanks.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

Looks great. If you can pull the branches a little closer to the back wall for the so that focal point is not right smack in the middle. 1:1.618 golden ratio stuff you know.


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## nicewicz (May 16, 2010)

Fantastic start. I really love the stand, I think it's one of the best DIY's I've seen on this forum. I have to say I like the off-centered layout a lot better, but that's just me. I'm thinking of putting a small tank in my office in the coming months, so it's cool to see that someone else is doing it as well. 

Any thoughts on plants/fish yet?


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## Jeffww (May 25, 2010)

If it's not too late I think it would be prudent to move the tank back a bit from the door if it is highly trafficked. No need to alarm the fauna with constant banging. 

I personally don't like the first island in its current state. I can't do any better but from a layman's point of view the right side and left aren't balanced. One points up, the other points downward, it's a tad distracting. Maybe if you mixed the up and down points.


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## joshd (Oct 16, 2009)

Bunbuku said:


> Looks great. If you can pull the branches a little closer to the back wall for the so that focal point is not right smack in the middle. 1:1.618 golden ratio stuff you know.


Now that you mention it, that is perfect. I will try shifting it toward the wall a bit. Thanks for the suggestion. Gotta love that golden ration stuff.



nicewicz said:


> Fantastic start. I really love the stand, I think it's one of the best DIY's I've seen on this forum.


Thank you for that compliment. I don't think I deserve it, but I definitely appreciate it. Good luck with your office tank. I love having one, I just have to try not to get caught with my hands in the tank too much by the boss. :doh:



nicewicz said:


> Any thoughts on plants/fish yet?


It will have the 15 Harlequin Rasbora from my current office tank. I am also planning on doing CRS and CBS shrimp. And what would you guys think about adding a couple dwarf gouramis? Maybe not a good idea with the shrimp? I have never kept gouramis before.



jeffww said:


> If it's not too late I think it would be prudent to move the tank back a bit from the door if it is highly trafficked. No need to alarm the fauna with constant banging.


That is a good thought, but I really don't get much traffic in my office. I am a design engineer and mostly sit designing all day. And the door really only gets shut as I leave at night. And truth be told, I spent a lot of time getting that stupid tank level. Our foundation is very uneven from a repair and it took over an hour to get it nice and level. (listen to me whine)

Thanks for all the comments guys. I hope that you will all give me some good feedback once I get it planted as well. I think I will need it.


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## Gordonrichards (Apr 28, 2009)

Josh. Gourami will hunt down your shrimps. Be careful.

If you plan on keeping a colony you need a bunch of places for them to hide out. Rasbora will hunt shrimplets.

Get subwassertang, x-mas moss, java moss, flame moss, mossy Moss etc for shrimplets to hide in. Let it grow into a jungle, I suggest picking only one type of moss for your tank.

Dense plantings of stem plants like rotala close together, fish won't swim through. Shrimplets will veg out in there.

Ever think about getting just some cherry shrimp instead? Cheaper to buy... 20 for 20.00 shipped from most sellers in the forum or on aquabid.

You could always get another setup for shrimps in my opinion.

-GOrdon


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## joshd (Oct 16, 2009)

Gordonrichards said:


> Josh. Gourami will hunt down your shrimps. Be careful.
> 
> If you plan on keeping a colony you need a bunch of places for them to hide out. Rasbora will hunt shrimplets.
> 
> Ever think about getting just some cherry shrimp instead? Cheaper to buy... 20 for 20.00 shipped from most sellers in the forum or on aquabid.


I will definitely have a couple of thick patches of willow moss for shrimplets. And I needle leaf java fern is pretty dense as well. So Gourami will hunt even adult shrimp? What would suggestions be for a different more shrimp friendly tank mate for the H. rasbora?

I already have a strong colony of RCS, but I just love the look of those Cyrstals! Especially the blacks!


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## Gordonrichards (Apr 28, 2009)

Depends on the gourami I think. Even dwarf gourami (sparkling) will go after young shrimp. They don't seem to go after my older ones though. If you want to keep crystals, keep it a crystal tank. Get some ottos. :^)

I know you have the fish and all... maybe start a colony at your home so you could always keep your office tank stocked?


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## joshd (Oct 16, 2009)

*an impatient update*

So, I've had water in the tank for almost 3 weeks now and still haven't completed the cycle. I know that isn't uncommon, but I had the filter established on my 20g for well over a month. I thought that would have made for a quick cycle, but alas it hasn't. :twitch: So here is the tank, fish-less and full of nutrient absorbing plants that won't be staying (hopefully that is obvious by their placement). I do have several RCS in the tank thriving (for a couple weeks now). The ammonia has been 0ppm for over a week now, but the nitrite is still holding on at 1ppm. I have been 50% water changes a couple times a week. Photos are from my iphone4 (crappy but much better than my old phone). Once I get fish in and the temp plants out I will try to take some good photos. Give me your thoughts on the scape (ignoring the extras). I'd love some constructive criticism and/or suggestions.


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## Gordonrichards (Apr 28, 2009)

Healthy looking shrimp!
Updates?


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## joshd (Oct 16, 2009)

UPDATE:

I have now added 2 sunset honey gourami, 4 otts and 3 Caridina japonica (in addition to the RCS). I added a good volume of Anubias Nana Narrow Leaf and petite (thx a ton ddavilla), along with some red root floaters. And I pulled out my nutrient sink plant mass.
After I pulled out the plant mass and had everything in the tank I realized that I hated how it looked. So I stirred everything up big time and adjusted the plant layout to come to its current layout. I would love to get some feed back. Tell me you hate it and how you would change it  Or tell me that it is just perfect :tinfoil3: (at which point I may call you a liar). I am hoping that the needle leaf will reach a bit higher, and it will be a while before the m. minuta even starts to fill in.
I will be moving the Harlequin Rasbora over in a couple days (once I see no levels spike after the most recent addition). The waters a bit cloudy still, I had just done a 40% water change after stirring everything up. And there is a floating clump of A. nana that I need to reattach at some point.


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## ddavila06 (Jan 31, 2009)

nice looking tank! it does sort of look empty in the surroundings of the island though...? hairgrass, e. tennellus?? have you given that any thoughts? enjoy!


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## ytro (Jul 13, 2007)

I think you should utilize the substrate and do some ground cover. Hairgrass or HC would add a lot... Nice tank!


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## joshd (Oct 16, 2009)

Thanks for your input guys. I agree that I need something that carpets at least part of the tank. The marsilea minuta will do it nicely, but it will take a couple months to grow in. It is already in there, but needs time to really get growing. I am slightly scared of trying HC because of the trimming demands, most everything else in the tank will need trimming on rare occasion. What are some thoughts on that?


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## midazolam (Sep 20, 2007)

Looks nice. Who makes that light and what are the specs? Thanks!


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

JKD

I agree that it needs a foreground cover, or keep AS in the mound and replace everything else around it with sandy foreground. 

I also think it needs more wood perhaps a few larger branches to add some contrast to the sticks. Some of those large branches should "face" down toward the substrate. Also throw in more different size rocks around the mound.


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## joshd (Oct 16, 2009)

midazolam said:


> Looks nice. Who makes that light and what are the specs? Thanks!


That is a fishneedit light. It is 2 x 24w T5ho. It came with a 6700K bulb and a pink bulb (per their recommendation). I don't love to pink bulb, but the plants are going well. I'd like to put some geismann bulbs in it, but I am just going to deal with them for a while.



Bunbuku said:


> I agree that it needs a foreground cover, or keep AS in the mound and replace everything else around it with sandy foreground.


And what would you recommend for a lower maintance foreground? I have m. minuta in there, but it will take a couple months to start really filling in.

I love the idea of trying some HC or the like, but I'm not looking to be doing much trimming maintenance on the tank. Any thoughts?

I have just added a mid day siesta to my photo period. There have been a very small amount of algae trying to sneak in :spy:. So I've up'ed my water change frequency and am trying this light timing change.

I also am seeing something weird with the hitchhiker snails. During the day, they just lay on their sides on the substrate (like they are dead:faint:, but they don't seem to be). My ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are 0,0,10. My co2 was a bit high (just over ~2 bps). I just turned it down, we'll see what comes of it. Everyone else in the tank seems to be doing great.


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## Bunbuku (Feb 10, 2008)

joshd said:


> And what would you recommend for a lower maintance foreground? I have m. minuta in there, but it will take a couple months to start really filling in.
> 
> I love the idea of trying some HC or the like, but I'm not looking to be doing much trimming maintenance on the tank. Any thoughts?


How about eleocharis "belem"? I have seen in the for sale forums here.


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

I am going to be a bit brutal, and I haven't posted a critical tank rating for a while, but I see that you have put the time and effort (and $$) into going ADA, so I think you deserve advice that can get you going towards a look that will satisfy you.

First, let's talk about sizes. Visual elements in the tank need to be of appropriate size to create balance within the given space (the confines of the aquarium). This is where you are facing the biggest issue. Anubias are very hard leaved plants that create a very strong element and strongly draw the eye compared to mid-ground plants like moss, smaller leaved ferns or even plants like E. Tenellus. Your Java ferns also have excessively big leaves for this size aquarium. In contrast to these large leaved plants, your driftwood is simply too slim and weak. In order to balance these large plants (which may or may not be able to work well with this size layout regardless of what you do), you should aim to get some thicker driftwood with more impact. 

This is especially important if you do decide to use a foreground plant. If the whole aquarium becomes a mass of green, you loose any sense of shapes or structure. A sand foreground would definitely help break up monotony, but building one would likely involve yanking everything out and re-scaping. 

If you want to use a foreground plant, you will likely be going with something like E. Tenellus to work things out colorwise-- anubias/ferns rarely work well visually with light foreground plants like HC and/or riccia. Glosso is an option though, as it is something more of a lime-green (though glosso is again, kind of big for this size aquarium though it is possible to clip it until it gives you smaller leaves). 

In the event you do use E. Tenellus though (which imo is the best foreground plant color-wise for fern/anubias tanks), it will be even more integral to get your hands on thicker driftwood that has greater visual impact. Working moss into the layout would also be a good idea should you go with my suggestions so far.

Well, consider what I've said anyway.


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## Esteroali (Oct 1, 2007)

Wow I don't think that was brutal at all. I would love to have had brutal and honest on my projects!! I wish I could have picked your brain before I bought all sorts of mish mash plants for my tank. Boy PATIENCE and PLANNING seem to be learned traits.


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## joshd (Oct 16, 2009)

Steven_Chong said:


> I am going to be a bit brutal, and I haven't posted a critical tank rating for a while, but I see that you have put the time and effort (and $$) into going ADA, so I think you deserve advice that can get you going towards a look that will satisfy you.
> 
> Well, consider what I've said anyway.


Steven - Thank you for your honest and very constructive input. Definitely not brutal, just honest. That is exactly what I have been hoping to get from this forum. So I have some questions and thoughts, but I am not done fully thinking through and researching all your suggestions. I am going to chew through all of it and then ask a few questions. I just wanted you to know that my delay in response isn't frustration or me ignoring your suggestions, but rather wanting to thoroughly process through it before asking useless questions. It may take me a week before I am ready. Again, thanks. Josh


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## Gordonrichards (Apr 28, 2009)

HM is nice, trimming is easier then with HC.


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## Steven_Chong (Mar 17, 2005)

No prob.

I'll just clarify something like this: Amano avoids anubias because he finds it difficult to use effectively, and during the "aquarium ratings" at the last 2 nature aquarium parties I attended, "there is a problem with this Anubias group" came up _a lot_.


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## joshd (Oct 16, 2009)

Steven -

I've made it through a tough exam and a round of my wife and kids getting a nasty bug. And now I am ready to ask, discuss and comment on your insight. 

1st - thanks for taking sometime and giving some really good insight to this tank

2nd - I want to state the original goal of this tank. To attempt an intentional aquascape (that looks good), that is low maintenance (because the tank is in my office at work) and looks high end while being as budget conscious as possible. That is why I choose needle leaf java fern, anubias, christmas moss and marsilea minuta, all being slow growing and low maintenance.

3rd - I have a lot of manzanita wood of varying girth. Having looked at the current scape I agree with you on the DW being to slim. It will be a major overhaul to pull it out and put some new in, so I will wait to do that until I have a plan on everything and implement it all at once.

4th - I have done some research into e tenellus. Sounds like a good idea. My question is, do you think that the marsilea minuta wouldn't be as attractive carpet for this layout? I do want your honest opinion here. It is just starting to grow now. 

5th & last - If I were to change all my plants with the current layout which plants might you recommend for this tank? I like the way this island layout feels in my office and I'd like to keep my current fauna.


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## joshd (Oct 16, 2009)

So I grew a tank full of E. Tenulus. And I am taking it out. It is too fast growing and not the look I am going for. But I am ready to do a re-scape with some different and more substantial DW. What do you guys think about this hard scape? 
















I'd love some feedback, I may put it in this afternoon or tomorrow.


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## joshd (Oct 16, 2009)

Ok. This breaks my heart, but I have taken this tank down. We just moved and I haven't had any real time with the tank in the past year because of medical school and having a fam. So I am going to just keep a little fluval edge until I get a couple years into residency (which is 3 years away still!). All that to say I need some thoughts from you guys. I am going to sell the setup locally here in DFW, but don't even know what an appropriate asking price would be. I will be selling the ADA tank, costum stand, light, ADA soil, filter, co2 tank and reg, and some other extras. What do you think I should sell it for?
Thanks for your thoughts and insight. And I do understand that it is really only worth what someone is willing to pay for it and not my preceived value of it.


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