# New guy, first planted tank build thread.



## t-sav (Aug 19, 2006)

Hello guys, I am new to the planted side of the fish hobby. I have been keeping a marine nano for 3 years now with great success.

I am wanting to construct and maintaine a "waters edge" style tank. Now, what I mean by this is that I want it to look as if it has tree roots and plants onlon the side of a deep bank of land. Here's what I am thinking.

I will use Great Stuff foam to make the banks edge and make several holes/ledges where I can plant plants and also place one or two pieces of driftwood on it and have the bottum of the wood look like (for lack of a better term) fingers going down into the substrate.

I would like to keep a school of neon tetras along with 2 or 3 oddball fish.

Now, here's my list of things to get (and some that I already have) not mentioned above.

* 15g (24x12x12) framless tank
* Filter...I need a suggestion on this one, but I am thinking HOB with a bio-wheel
* Heater
* Lighting...I also need some suggestions on this one, I want to be able to grow anything I put in the tank. Keep it under $100 if you can.
* For substrate, I am thinking of going with 20 lbs of Eco-Complete Plant Substrate.
* Um...will I need a CO2 System? If so, which one would you all suggest?


I think that's basically it for the most part, anything I forget? What do you all think?


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Welcome to the board t-sav!

It sounds like you have an interesting tank planned.
One place to start looking into your equipment is in our Product review

I don't personally recommend the bio-wheel type filter for a planted tank. You could try a simple HOB like an Aqua Clear or Whisper with good results.

As for lighting, you have lots of options to bring your levels up to the point of growing pretty much anything you want.

If you plan to go with higher light levels (over 2 WPG), you may want to go with C02. Again, check out the product reviews to get an idea of what people like.

It looks like you're doing a good job of planning, so I'm sure everything will go just fine for you.

If you can, you should start a photo journal to keep us posted on the progress.  I'm interested in seeing how your "waters edge" style tank looks when it's complete.


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## t-sav (Aug 19, 2006)

Thanks, and don't worry, there will be pictures


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## aquariageek (May 27, 2006)

That is an awesome idea- the waters edge style- it is something I have wanted to do.

I agree with Jan, don't go with a biowheel for a planted tank. I also wouldnt go with a Whisper... I would stick with Aquaclear. I have never seen a cloudy tank running an Aquaclear filter. Also, as you will remove the carbon from the filter so it doesnt absorb your ferts... this is much, much easier with an Aquaclear. Also, consider a canister filter... more money but works better, IMHO. Another benefit of a canister is that you can put an inline reactor in to dissolve your CO2 if you decide to use it. There is a good thread here about making a DIY Canister with a powerhead.... http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...16035-nano-canister-literally-for-a-nano.html

I realize you may want the Eco Complete due to its color. However, make sure you consider using flourite, especially with the delicate 'scape' you will be creating. By delicate I mean you will have places for everything and you wont want substrate everywhere. Eco Complete works well, however during water changes it gets everywhere because it is so small- leaving you with EC all over your hardscape items and plants. I have worked with flourite on friends tanks, and it isnt as easy to disturb. Also, it's coloring isnt too bad- it looks pretty natural I think.

Looking forward to pics of what promises to be an awesome 'scape.


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## t-sav (Aug 19, 2006)

Thanks for the input and info on the substrate 

That product review helped me out alot.

For lighting, what Kelvin range should I shoot for?


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## t-sav (Aug 19, 2006)

Being that I live in Louisiana, I have access to Cyprus Tree roots quite readily. Can I use taat for my scape? Do I need to boil it to get rid of any parasites and whatnot? Would it hurt to use Cypres wood?


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## t-sav (Aug 19, 2006)

Here's what I have so far.








and









I know the AC500 is abit large and waterflow will be alot, but I can cut the propelor to cut back the flow. Or do you guyst Think that it would be fine running it on the lowest setting with the standard propelor?


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

> Can I use taat for my scape? Do I need to boil it to get rid of any parasites and whatnot? Would it hurt to use Cypres wood?


 I have used cypress in the tanks in the past. It can be difficult to water log (have it sink). Yes, it's a good idea to boil any wood prior to putting it in your tank. It will not only kill parasites, it will also help to leach out some tannins and start the water logging process for sinking in your tank.

Are you planning on visiting some of the bayous to obtain the wood?


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## erijnal (Apr 5, 2006)

lol that filter is huge. Yeah I think you'd be fine running it on the lowest setting, it's just that after you're done scaping and everything, the filter's presence might seem a little too distracting.

Anyway, I have Eco-complete in my ten gallon tank and don't have any trouble with particulate matter getting all over my driftwood/plants. You can't really vacuum the substrate, that's true, because the tiny pieces will get sucked up, but unless you're planning on having a huge bioload, vacuuming the substrate won't be necessary. If detritus accumulates in one spot on the substrate, I just stir it up with my hand and then do a water change. All the detritus will be floating around in the water and I'll be able to get most of it that way.

If your tank is the conventional 15 gallon dimensions, finding a fixture that has 55-65 watts shouldn't be too much of a problem. You can knock that down to 36 watts if you don't want to fertilize/inject CO2. Both fixtures should run you under 60 bucks.

You'll need more than 20 lbs of Eco-complete for your tank. If you're lucky you'll get maybe an inch of substrate all around with one bag, which just isn't enough for any plant that will develop a good root system. Just to give you an idea, my 20 gallon long (which is only 6 inches longer length-wise) used two full bags of Eco-complete and I still wanted at least a half bag more. I think two bags (around 50-60 bucks for two) should be perfect for your 15g. Also consider a 50lb bag of Soilmaster Charcoal if you've got a Lesco somewhere around you. Same aesthetic effect, and grows plants fine provided you fertilize I believe. One bag will cost 10-20 bucks and will be MUCH more than enough.

As for heating I prefer the Jager simply because it looks the most discreet. Supposedly they used to be the best but now their heaters are not as good as they used to be I think. Not that it really matters to me; the summer heat makes my heater's job easy. Somewhere in the 10-20 dollar range. 

If you're going for high light (~3 wpg and more) then you'll definitely need some form of CO2 injection as well as fertilization. If you take a quick peek at the Equipment forum, you'll see a sticky on DIY CO2 that is extremely helpful (and cheeeep!). You can also buy a Hagen Nutrafin unit or something similar, but that's basically a manufactured version of the DIY CO2. About 5 bucks + future expenses on sugar/yeast, or if you're planning on buying a unit, 20-30 bucks + future expenses on sugar/yeast or magical activation/stabilization packets lol. And then there's always pressurized CO2 which will run you maybe 150-200 bucks initially, but will pay off in the long run because you don't have to buy sugar/yeast, and is also much easier to deal with.


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## t-sav (Aug 19, 2006)

Wow, thanks for the info James.

Would this light be sutable enough and because it would be almso 2 WPG, I wouldn't have to run CO2, correct? Would addiction of Floural Excel be enough?
Here's the link.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7702546625&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&rd=1

Of course I would change out the actinic for a 6500k.


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## erijnal (Apr 5, 2006)

Ohhh yeahhhh I completely forgot about Excel as an option. Yes! Excel alone should be enough with those ~2 WPG. I'm not sure if you should go with HO (high output bulbs) or NO (normal output) bulbs if you want to go low maintenance. Supposedly T-5 bulbs still follow the WPG rule, but are supposed to be a lot more efficient. Maybe someone else can help you with that question.

So many of us, myself included, completely forget about Excel as a viable alternative to CO2. It's good to be reminded. The thing is, Excel runs out pretty fast with regular dosing and the price could add up real fast. Regardless, I'm pretty sure that you'd be fine with the 2 WPG, Excel, Flourish for micronutrients, and straight tapwater should provide you with adequate macronutrients (nitrogen, phosophorus, potassium) according to what I've read here.


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## t-sav (Aug 19, 2006)

Hm, I have an RO/DI unit that I use to purify the freshwater that I use for mixing with salt for my saltwater reef tank. I should just use tapwater and conditioner???


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## t-sav (Aug 19, 2006)

BTW, with such a small tank, wouldn't Excel be more cost effective than with a larger tank which would require larger amounts of Excel per doseage?


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## erijnal (Apr 5, 2006)

A RO/DI unit is nice to have, but it isn't strictly necessary. I've heard a lot of people questioning the usefulness of the products because you'll simply be putting back in what you're taking out. Try tapwater and conditioner, and if that works for you, stick with it. I have cardinal tetras, so I use the RO/DI unit mostly to make sure I keep them happy and not really for the plants. They'd probably do fine in my 8.0 pH, 12dGH tapwater, but just in case.. Anyway, keep in mind that fish don't live in distilled water, so using purely that will probably result in dead fish. In any case, water changes will be that much easier/faster if you're using tap water. If your tap water has a high kH (carbonate hardness) though, you won't be able to keep the more demanding plants like toninas and ericaolusdlwthas43drft (sp? =]). Not sure what you can do to lower the kH though, I don't think RO/DI units do anything to that.

With a small tank, I have to admit Excel probably wouldn't run out very quickly. The thing is, I used to use an Excel solution to occasionally to dip algae infested plants into, so it would go quick for me lol. Your call though. It just seems like liquid supplements go real fast.

Hope that helps


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