# Nutrient Deficiency



## sllo (Sep 29, 2004)

Can anyone tell me what kind of Nutrient Deficiency Symptoms this is?
I can not tell from the Chuck's Nutrient Deficiency Symptoms chart.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

The clear areas in the leaves are a melt-down like what is seen in Cryptocoryne. I have not seen this in Hygrophila difformis before. The yellow leaves look like they are older leaves. If this were nitrogen deficiency, the yellow older leaves wouldn't be that much different from the rest of the leaves. In N deficiency the whole plant loses a lot of its green color. It might be magnesium deficiency. 

The whole plant looks like one sick puppy! I suspect that we have toxicity, here, not just deficiency. 

Tell us all you can about your water, how often you change it, and what you have been putting in it.


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## sllo (Sep 29, 2004)

Well
NO3=10ppm
PO4=1ppm
presure CO2 around 30ppm
Kh=4
Gh=7
3WPG lighting

I do 50% water change every week and then add 10ppm Nitrate with KNO3, 20ppm K with K2SO4, 1ppm PO4 with fleet enema, 10ppm Mg and add 5-10ml traces 3xweek. I dose 3 times a week K,P and N. The amount I add of each depends on the test kit measurement


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Hi sllo,

personally, I do not believe in deficiency pictures. There is too many combinations and too many look alike symptoms, it is impossible to list them all.
Usually reading the aquarium water parameters before WC reveal the cause of most deficiencies. We need, NO3, PO4, Ca, Mg, CO2, KH, pH, Wpg, TDS, and how do you dose K and TE Trace Elements.

Edward


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## sllo (Sep 29, 2004)

as i wrote above I do 50% water change every week and then add 10ppm Nitrate with KNO3, 20ppm K with K2SO4, 1ppm PO4 with fleet enema, 10ppm Mg and add 5-10ml traces 3xweek. I dose 3 times a week K,P and N. The amount I add of each depends on the test kit measurement.
I try to keep the water parameters at 
NO3=10ppm 
PO4=1ppm 
preasure CO2 around 30ppm

it is a 30G tank with 3WPG lighting

I dose 10ppm K 3xweek plus N and P in order to reach levels of NO3=10ppm and
PO4=1ppm 

TE 3xweek 5ml each time

I dont know the ca, mg or TDS. cant find any ca test kit here and my water company doesnt tell me the tab water parameters.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

Hi sllo,

sorry, I didn't see your previous post, was lost in a buffer.

1. keep NO3 at 15 ppm, measured before WC. Calibrate your NO3 kit, see Fertilizing forum FAQ.
2. dose the same grams of K2SO4 as KNO3, this will give you NO3:K 3:4, no need to dose more K
3. dosing Mg without knowing tap Mg and Ca is difficult. Dosing 10 ppm Mg a week is generally good. Lets hope your tap or substrate has Ca.
4. you are dosing lots of TE. What kind of TE is it?

Edward


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## sllo (Sep 29, 2004)

Hello Edward,

the only TE I can get here are Florena by Sera and Froralpride from Tetra.
Right now I am using Florena.
The instructions say to dose 5ml for every 20liters of water 1xweek. So for my tank (120L) I have to dose 30ml per week. Do you think that is too much?
I used to dose less but my hygrophilia sunset was totaly green. After increasing the dosage it seems to get some redish color on the new leaves.

I have a cheap Fe test kit from sera and I try to keep the Fe around 1ppm. I know it is not accurate but is some kind of a reference to me on what is going on.

I will follow your recomendation and see how things go.


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## Edward (May 25, 2004)

sllo said:


> the only TE I can get here are Florena by Sera and Froralpride from Tetra.


Any analysis available?



> I have a cheap Fe test kit from sera and I try to keep the Fe around 1ppm.


Fe test kits never helped me with anything.

What substrate do you have?

Edward


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## sllo (Sep 29, 2004)

Edward said:


> sllo said:
> 
> 
> > the only TE I can get here are Florena by Sera and Froralpride from Tetra.
> ...


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Silo, 

Are your lights on 24 hours?


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## JLudwig (Feb 16, 2004)

When I see something like that I up trace, looks like you're macros are covered plus it doesn't seem to be potassium. I am unfamiliar with your trace product, perhaps its not comprehensive? In 30 gallons with high light I would be adding close to 40-60ml of trace a week, I like TMG personally altho a 50/50 cocktail of Flourish/Flourish Fe seems to work just fine also.

Jeff


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

That's NO3 deficiency.
Add more, like 1/4 teaspoon at least per dose(2-3x a week).
CO2..............make sure you have enough, 30ppm.

I doubt you need Ca/Mg, Cyperus is limestone.
I also doubt you need K2SO4, you get plenty of K from KNO3.
You can add a little Mg if you want.

Stop relying on those test kits. I think that is the core issue for you.
Most NO3 test kits, PO4 etc tend to be junk.
Poor measurement of CO2 can also cause issues.

Add this:

1/4 teaspoon KNO3, 3x a week
Add more PO4, like 2x as much for now 3x a week, see if that helps.
Traces, use Sera, add 7ml 3x a week
Crank the CO2(30ppm at least). A good narrow range pH kit is very good for this. You can also add 2x the voilume for the KH test and get the drops/2 to give you 0.5 units of KH degrees BTW.
Takes 2x as many KH reagent drops.....but gives 2x the accuracy roughly. 

Don't dose based on the test kits. Dose based on the make up water you add back.

You remove everything, this prevents any build up, you dose frequently during the week, this prevents anything from running out.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## sllo (Sep 29, 2004)

I will stop using those test kits the and try what Tom suggests and see what happens. I hope I dont kill my fish  

By the way. I tested the Kh today with 2 test kits. one shows 4 and the other one 3.5. I also tested the ph with three different test kits, sera, hagen low range, and a cheap one i can not remeber the brand i think is prodac. The readings where around 6.4-6.5. I am really having difficulties compairing those colors. Is there any trick on how to accurately compair them and get the exact value of ph?
From my readings and the co2 table with a small error on the readings of kh and ph I can assume that my co2 is between the range of 33 and 48ppm. So I guess with these test kits you can estimate the amount of co2.
I also tested some of the aquarium water after letting it rest for 24 hours and the ph is > 7.5, cant get better reading because my test kits measure up to 7.5.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Your pH test kit probably is using the dye, bromthymol blue. I wouldn't worry too much about getting the pH correct to the nearest tenth of a unit. Generally, a nice grass green color means you are in the right range for CO2. Unless you have soft water with very little calcium and magnesium carbonate, yellow is too much CO2 and blue is too little. 

Are your H. difformis plants growing normally? Is the new growth looking OK? Does this clearing or melting of the leaf tissue occur only in the older leaves? What is your lighting schedule? (hours on and hours off) is the tank in complete darkness when the lights are off? (There is a reason why I am asking you these questions about lighting.)


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## plantbrain (Jan 23, 2004)

sllo said:


> I will stop using those test kits the and try what Tom suggests and see what happens. I hope I dont kill my fish
> 
> By the way. I tested the Kh today with 2 test kits. one shows 4 and the other one 3.5. I also tested the ph with three different test kits, sera, hagen low range, and a cheap one i can not remeber the brand i think is prodac. The readings where around 6.4-6.5. I am really having difficulties compairing those colors. Is there any trick on how to accurately compair them and get the exact value of ph?
> 
> ...


I've never lost a fish except to suicide jumping.
Pretty unlikely. Never had a disease in 15 years.

This is why I suggest a "range" and that precise control is not needed for most hobbyist. Error on the high side and make sure you keep it there.

The NO3 issue seems to be your issue more than CO2.
_H difformis_ does not look like that with poor CO2 levels, that's a NO3 issue as I stated earlier.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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