# Water change brings death



## ctmpwrdcamry (May 23, 2005)

Last night I did a water change on the 75 gallon. On saturday after the meeting i picked up 25 Rummynose and 20 Hatchet fish from Pete Shepart. They were all doing great until i did a 50% last night.  

Everyone else is fine, all the Hatchets are still alive and swiming as well as the rainbows, sword tails, barbs and ottos. So i checked the paramiters and everything was where it should be. The c02 was 42ppm. This measurement was taken two hours after lights out, three hours after co2 shuts off. 

So, does anyone have any ideas what happend? They were beautiful fish...


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

From your post I would assume some or all of the rummynoses died. Is that correct? Is it possible the co2ppm being cut in half had something to do with their demise. I know rummys are extra senstive to changes


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## ctmpwrdcamry (May 23, 2005)

Yes, they all died, at least thats what it appeard.

Waht do you mean by co2 being cut in half? I did not do the water change after lights out, thats when i found everyone dead and tested the water.


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## Rob Tetrazona (Jun 21, 2005)

Perhaps it was the fluctuation of the pH. Remember that by the time most Tetras hit your tank, they are pretty stressed from transportation to the LFS, stressful conditions at the LFS (cramped quarters), stress from being netted, stress from transportation from the LFS to the new owner's tank. The fish Pete sells may have very well of been wild caught on top of all of that, so these guys have been through a lot stressful conditions along the way and major water change may have been the straw that broke the camel's back. 

With hindsight being 20/20, it probably would have been better to drip acclimate the Tetras with the water they came in into a quarantine tank and then leave them be for a couple of weeks. I know that Pete also sells RO & tap water options for some fish, like the wild caught Hatchetfish. The Tetras may have come from an RO water tank. I know that I've killed whole batches of home grown Tetra fry by trying to acclimate them too quickly to peat filtered tap water and they were born and raised in RO water. I'm still trying to master RO to tap water acclimation for Tetras. While rapid pH fluctuation can stress most fish, I've been told that with Tetras it's the KH fluctuation can kill them. In nature, Tetras come from very pure water with a KH of 4 or less.

So stress and major fluctuation in water parameters may be the culprits here...


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## ctmpwrdcamry (May 23, 2005)

My understanding is Pete had already aclimated them to harder water. His pH is 7.7 and his hardness is 300. I know he had the fish for a while, about three months, so one would think they would have been happy with the lower pH.
Pete said he would check the peramiters in his tanks ang get back to me. He mentioned doing two water changes a week of about 20-30%. We talked about the RO water and he said he did for a while, but then found out it isnt needed. 
Then again, I could be wrong. I am not nearly as knowledgeable with these live things as i am my cars.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

What I meant by the co2 level was the whole kh/ph co2 relationship. What is your co2 level when you changed the water. If it's as high as you say they might not have been able to handle that much of a change when you did the 50% wc.


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## ctmpwrdcamry (May 23, 2005)

Oh, i fallow now! Any idea how to lower the risk of this in the future/


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## Simpte 27 (Jul 16, 2004)

Put them in after a day or 2 after a waterchange to make sure your tank balances out (temp, co2 levels, o2 saturation).


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## ctmpwrdcamry (May 23, 2005)

Any precautions i should take when doing a water change once they are in there? As i said this is all new.


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## Simpte 27 (Jul 16, 2004)

Pour or pump water slowly or use the sprinkle effect (simulates rain). Temp is a big part also.


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## jgc (Jan 30, 2006)

Just two random thoughts (having killed plenty of shrimp randomly with water changes). Personally I have questioned my tap (perhaps the city flushed a line near my house, and cranked up the clorimine just to be "safe"), I have also questioned my declorinator...

I used to fert right after waterchanges (as in seconds after). I know my declorinator (Prime) will bind nitrates to some extent (NO3 is -0- after the fert is added). I started to wonder if all that fert was in some way nutralizing my declorinator. I do not know the answer - but now do not add fert till the next morning.
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That said, I also try to make it a point to do my weekly water change a day (or two) before adding fish now.


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## Rob Tetrazona (Jun 21, 2005)

I've never owned Rummy Nose Tetras before, but let's take the delicate Neon Tetra for example. A normal complaint is you buy a dozen and only a couple are still alive after 2 weeks. This is probably due to lack of acclimation. In your case, you probably acclimated the fish to your tank's water when you got them, but the large water change soon after acclimation probably shocked their systems. 

I acclimated a 3 month old Neon Tetra (that I raised from an egg) to my upstairs hi-tech planted tank's water about a month ago. The Neon came from RO water. Since I only do water changes every other week on this tank, the Neon probably had several days to get used to the water before the next water change. I don't do anything out of the ordinary when doing water changes on this tank now that the newly acclimated Neon lives here. What is an ordinary water change for me? The water is 30%, dechlorinated, & the temp is measured to match the tank's temp.

I agree with Damon that a waiting period between acclimation and the next water change should take place and the temp of the new water should match the temp of the water in the tank. This should avoid major early swings in water parameters.

If Pete's water has a pH of 7.7 and your planted tank has CO2 injected, then your water is most probably on the acidic side, 6.something (that's my educated guess with Ohio tap water). A pH swing of 1.0 could be enough harm Tetras. If this is true, your fish may have gone from alkaline water (Pete's water) to acidic (CO2 injected) then back to alkaline (post tap water change) after the 50% water change then back to acidic after the CO2 dropped the pH back to the level it was before. Not to mention tap water has a higher pH straight out of the tap than it does if it sits a day or two. Also, my pH controller only fluctuates about .2-.3 before kicking on again. Even at night when the CO2 is off, it still only goes up .2-.3.

The point I'm trying to make is these fish have been on a rollercoaster ride of water quality! 

Since I will be breeding at least 5 different species of Tetras this year, I hope to master the RO to tap water acclimation concept. One step further, all of the Tetras will be going into my hi-tech planted tanks only. I hope to be of more use in the not so distant future.


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## ctmpwrdcamry (May 23, 2005)

Russ,
That is news to me, i never measured it. That could be part of the problem, that would be alot of chlorine in the water.

Rob,
I wouldn't doubt it, there are many swings those fish went though. Right now i am still at one 50% water change a week. I should have waited longer for the first water change, but to late now.

I will let the tank settle back and hopefully get some next month. Hopefully ill have better luck.


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

When a LFS tells me the fish came from a supplier who kept them in RO water that is usually the curse of death. They think they're impressing me but as discussed the acclimation is that much harder. I personally have very little trouble acclimating rummynoses, but cardinal tetras are a whole different thing. I've recently switched to 24/7 UV sterlization for GW I just couldn't get rid of. One of the add'l benefits of the UV is it will also destroy pathogens in the water column. Prior to the UV whenever I added cardinals to the water inevitably a few would develop an infection of some type lose color and die within a few days. After two weeks the survival rate was around 50%, after that they are actual very solid long-term. Since adding the UV I added a new batch of cardinals and none of them died or got any infection. I would have to do this a few more times to put alot of validity into it, but I believe the UV has helped. 

BTW - I acclimate all fish at least 2 hours either by drip or slowly putting some water in the LFS bag.


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