# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Nature Aquarium for Wild Discus - Updated 10/11/03



## Phil Edwards

Here are the "before" shots taken this evening. I'm sorry for the glare in the first shot; it's been a long day and I didn't want to mess with the camera settings. I'll have "after" shots when I get back from my honeymoon.

This aquascape is the result of a few months of studying Amano style and Nature Aquarium philosophy. I've wanted to create a Nature Aquarium based on the temperate rainforests of Washington state where I grew up for some time now but haven't had a living space permenant enough until now. After days/weeks/months of looking through magazines, the net, and books trying to figure out what type of aquascape I wanted to create my eyes settled on the aquascape "Old Growth Forest" near the end of NAW bk. 1 and inspiration hit.

As a boy scout my troop visited a protected stand of virgin trees in the cascades which made a lasting impression on me. There was something profoundly primal and awesome about that stand of trees 20' across that stirred my soul and continues to stir my memories to this day.

After twelve years of living on the East Coast I've grown accustomed to the tame lands people here accept as wilderness. Memories of those trees reminds me what true wilderness is and what the face of our continent used to look like.

I've titled this work "Grove of the Patriarchs" in honor of that stand, which is known by the same name, as well as for the regal nature of the discus who will be inhabiting the aquarium.

Current Inhabitants:
Plants:
Cryptocoryne wendtii "red"
Cryptocoryne crispulata v. balansae
Cryptocoryne spiralis
Anubias coffeefolia
Echinodorus tenellus
Ludwigia brevipes
Vesicularia dubyana
Eliocharis acicularis. Dwarf Hairgrass

Fishes:
3 Apistogramma bitaeniata
10 Corydoras julii
2 Ottocinclus affinis
2 Farlowella spp. 
1 SAE

Will be home to at the end of June:
7 Symphysodon aequifasciatus aequifasciatus -wild caught Colombian Green discus
3 more Apistogramma bitaenata
A bunch more Ottos
A large shoal (30+) Caridina japonica































This is a stand of Ludwigia brevipes trying to peek above the center root. I've placed it in the Golden Section and hope that this hint of red will enhance the aquarium and compliment the reds in the fish. 









This is a picture of the discus I'll be getting. Their subtle colors were a perfect match for the subdued nature of the aquarium. I can't wait to bring them home![









Proverbs 3:7-8

[This message was edited by Phil Edwards on Tue May 27 2003 at 08:54 PM.]

[This message was edited by Phil Edwards on Tue May 27 2003 at 09:25 PM.]

[This message was edited by Phil Edwards on Tue May 27 2003 at 09:25 PM.]

[This message was edited by Phil Edwards on Tue May 27 2003 at 09:28 PM.]

[This message was edited by Phil Edwards on Tue July 29 2003 at 06:15 AM.]

[This message was edited by Phil Edwards on Sat September 06 2003 at 06:14 AM.]

[This message was edited by Phil Edwards on Sun October 12 2003 at 06:19 AM.]


----------



## Phil Edwards

Tank specs:

Old Style 90g without the center brace
DIY filtration (except for overflow box)
302 watts PC fluorescent; 10 hr photoperiod
Substrate: 100% Seachem Flourite
Seachem Excel, Iron, Flourish, and Equalibrium 
3/4tsp KNO3 2x/week
1tbsp K2SO4 1x/week
1/8tsp Fleet Enema for PO4 2x/week

DIY filter:
The main sump was made of a 20g Long which I drilled and put bulkheads in. I used 1/4" glass panes to create the baffles and DAPP brand silicone (100%, Clear) bought at Home Depot. The idea was to have the input on the side of the sump to allow a cover.

The first pane creates a 10" reservoir where I can house my heater in a high current area to heat the water most efficiently and then have the water overflow through the media. The media is landscaping pumice held up with a PVC and eggcrate plenum.










On the far left you can see a 3" pane used to keep the water level that high in the media chamber to reduce agitation as much as possible. A custom cut 1/4" glass pane covers the whole sump to keep as much off gassed CO2 in the system as possible.

Here is the main plumbing system. A PondMaster 700 is hardpiped into the sump with a ball valve connector (not seen) to manipulate flow and avoid overflowing the sump during maintenance. The valve at the top is used to increase/decrease flow through the CO2 reactor hiding behind the canister. CO2 enriched water is pumped back into the main line on the far side of the valve.










Finally, the output. It was made out of a couple 3-way T connectors angled to circulate the water most effectively and then painted black with matte Rust-O-Leum to reduce visibility.










Proverbs 3:7-8

[This message was edited by Phil Edwards on Tue May 27 2003 at 09:27 PM.]


----------



## Birgit & Wolfgang

Oh my god! If this tank will turn out like I thing it will, you are going to win ADA 2004, for sure!

I am now looking for a driftwood like that exactly 2 years, and now I know why I didn´t find it - you have it!

Congratulations, Phil this is more than amazing!!!

www.naturaquarium.at
view some of our pictures


----------



## imported_locus

Looking good so far, Phil.

Very nice driftwood - Discus would look great swimming circles around it!

One thing Amano does that you might want to do to is keep the gravel line at the very front of the tank level, doing so helps keep the viewers focus on the important parts of the aquascape IMO.

I'm eagerly awaiting the "after" pics - have a nice honeymoon.


----------



## imported_Svennovitch

Congratulations Phil, that will be the most beautiful Discus tank ever !!!! Very nice plant selection, i like them all a lot!! Especially the balansae is one of my favorites.

I second the tip about the gravel line.

Sven


----------



## ekim

WOW Phil, very nice!
I've been wanting to do this same setup for over a year now, yours looks perfect!!
I think your plant selection is great, they should all be fine in 80F+ water.
And those discus will look fantastic in there!

I might have gone with 5 discus instead of 7 though, don't want it to look to crowded.

Great job!


----------



## Phil Edwards

Thanks guys!!! I put a lot of myself into this aquascape and it's very nice to get such positive feedback.

I third the idea about the gravel, I've been doing some replanting and was lazy last night and didn't want to even it out. There should actually be a small rise in front of the wood but the rest of it will be leveled out.

Birgit,
It's actually six different pieces of wood jammed in the substrate and held in place by rocks. If I took the anubias and some of the substrate away you'd see a big pile of rock around the root mass.

For those in the US I got all that from www.aquariumdriftwood.com Carrie did a great job working with me in finding just the right pieces to achieve the look I wanted. I highly recommend them.

Ekim,
I've been thinking the same thing but I got a really good deal from the seller. $30.00 apiece or all seven for $25.00 apiece. I can't say no to $25.00 _adult_ wilds that nice. I'm hoping I get a decent breeding pair out of the group and plan on taking them out when they pair up. We'll just have to see how nature works out.









Proverbs 3:7-8

[This message was edited by Phil Edwards on Wed May 28 2003 at 07:32 AM.]


----------



## Bert H

Phil that looks fantastic! And that piece of driftwood is incredible!! This will definitely be an award contender when done.

Bert.


----------



## Guest

Excellent project Phil. I can't wait to see after pictures when plants grow in. Make sure you take your time when taking update pictures.

This whole wood structure looks like one piece. Excellent work on putting it together.

Why are you using Excel and pressurized CO2 ?

Join as at www.njas.net


----------



## Phil Edwards

Thanks...









Jay,

I'm only using Excel at the moment. I ran out of CO2 two days after setting the system up and had a few liters of Excel floating around. I've been using it at the store and it's worked well. I wanted to see how well it would do for establishing a slow growing tank and it's done well so far. I still think CO2 is better, but the Excel was free..









Proverbs 3:7-8


----------



## imported_Ghazanfar Ghori

Sweet! I can picture it 6 months from now...
Very very noice.

-
Ghazanfar Ghori


----------



## imported_ryuken168

Wow, very nice set-up. What type of driftwood is that? Did you buy it or found it around your area?
Nevermind I just see the last post by Phil.

Aquatic Bliss


----------



## Wheeler

Phil,

Holy cow, what a great tank that's gonna be. Please don't ruin it with discus. They're too big for an intricate set-up like that. Seems that you have your heart set on it, but why would you want your fish to become the focus when your tank should be the star (and it will be).

You could put a big pink flamingo in the middle and it'll still be an incredible tank, but I would think long and hard about your fish choice. Discus will dominate-- Altums might be a better choice. They would accent and contrast the diagonal lines of the driftwood with vertical ones.

Please, I don't want this suggestion to sound critical. You've done a helluva job on that tank.









Best wishes,
John Wheeler


----------



## imported_locus

I think wheeler has a good point there - now that I think about it, Altum Angels would be a fantastic fish to compliment your beautiful aquascape.

The question is, which comes first, the aquascape or the fish? I guess its all chickens and eggs here & down to personal opinion!


----------



## Phil Edwards

Over the past few years I've been leaning greatly toward keeping groups of small fish to show off the plants I've had. With this aquascape I really wanted to do something different (for me) and create an aquascape that is intended to accent the fish rather than vice versa.

To paraphrase something Amano said that became a theme for this aquarium "There is something special and particularly satisfying about creating an aquarium for a fish rather than picking a fish for an aquascape." I'd forgotten that feeling and wanted to remember what was so satisfying and special.

If I were going to pick fish to accent the aquascape I would have gone with a school of Coral Red Pencilfish or Congo Tetras and left it at that. I may still do so in the future when I get myself a larger aquarium to make a biotope for the discus. For now I'm going to enjoy keeping a nice school of discus in a tank designed for them.

Thank you very much for the opinions, I had seriously considered Altums while planning this aquarium. Unfortunately they're too hard to come by here and are very expensive when they're available. Also, the back wall is planted thickly with C. balansae and spiralis that are melting/adapting right now. When they grow in there will be a strong vertical element as well.

Regardless, I always love to hear what other people think of my work and the ideas that it sparks. If you have any more ideas like that please share them. You never know when they may coalesce into another aquascape.









 
 

[This message was edited by Phil Edwards on Sun June 01 2003 at 11:26 AM.]

[This message was edited by Phil Edwards on Sun June 01 2003 at 11:29 AM.]


----------



## Wheeler

I belive the exact quote is from NAW2 pg 40:

"...People who enjoy Nature Aquariums often begin by making a stage setting that is most suited to the fish that they have chosen to play the leading role."

This was for a tank full of guppies. 

BTW-- I can get Altums here for $20 at Aquarium Center (there might be a local breeder). They have them quite regularly and might ship you some if you were really interested. Just FYI.

Best wishes,
John Wheeler


----------



## 2la

John, that's SICKENING! They're twice as expensive here. I would jump--JUMP--at the chance to create a tank especially for altums!

Phil, congratulations on a *spectacular* tank. I'm sure you'll keep us updated (or we'll hunt you down)...

 
(Click for pics)


----------



## tsunami06

In NAW1, pg 123, "There is another kind of satisfaction when, as in this case, the aquarium is built for a certain species. A lot of time and energy must be put into creating
just the right atmosphere for the fish."

I am sure you have done all the above, Phil!
I'm particularly fond of mound style-wood
arrangement tanks, and yours is a great
example of that kind of layout. Keep us updated.









Carlos

-------------------------
"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced." -- Van Gogh


----------



## JamesHoftiezer

I guess this means we're making another trip to Georgia for the discus. Paul will be pleased









Get the girls together, I'll gas the truck and bring the coolers. Just remember we need to plan on hitting the shopping on the way down.

Everyone just has to understand. This is our version of a weekend road trip ... letting our wives shop while we go to the fish dealer









*James Hoftiezer

Tank Journal - Aquascape ( Latest / Archive )
Tank Journal - Parts and Construction ( Latest / Archive )*


----------



## Phil Edwards

James,
Check out the CAAS forums more often...... We've got a trip scheduled for the 21st. I can't wait!!!

Carlos,
That's the one I was thinking of, thanks.

John,
$20.00?!!! I'm going to have to make a new tank now, thanks a lot!!!







I'm already locked into the deal with the discus, but I'll take you up on that sometime in the future, thanks.

I'll keep you all updated. Right now things aren't looking too hot. I've got an anubias or two that are starting to turn yellow and I'm going on my honeymoon tomorrow (Monday) morning. I'm going to overdose and hope the algae's not too bad when I get back. It's going to be a hot time in the old tank this week!


----------



## Guest

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Phil Edwards:
> James,
> Check out the CAAS forums more often...... We've got a trip scheduled for the 21st. I can't wait


What forum is that ?

Join as at www.njas.net


----------



## Guest

> quote:
> 
> BTW-- I can get Altums here for $20 at Aquarium Center (there might be a local breeder). They have them quite regularly and might ship you some if you were really interested. Just FYI.


John,

How far is Aquarium Center from Philly ? Maybe I should stop by there one day.

Join as at www.njas.net


----------



## JamesHoftiezer

www.aquacharlotte.com

Its the 'local' forum for NC/SC

*James Hoftiezer

Tank Journal - Aquascape ( Latest / Archive )
Tank Journal - Parts and Construction ( Latest / Archive )*


----------



## Wheeler

AC is about an hour from my house, so it's about 2 hours from Philly. I'd be more than happy to take a trip down-- I'm on the way







.

Best wishes,
John Wheeler


----------



## ekim

Hey Phil, 
any updates? 
it's almost 2 weeks right









This is one of my favorite tanks that ive seen lately, can't wait to see the updates!

Good job!


----------



## Phil Edwards

I came back from my honeymoon to a nice algae problem and some seriously yellowing anubias. Things aren't growing very quickly, except the algae and I've got a couple of weeks worth of recovery to do before it's ready for more pics. Don't worry, I'll likely get impatient and snap some before then, one never knows.


----------



## Phil Edwards

Well, due to a computer problem I've had to cancel the discus. However, much to John's delight, I've got a lead on some Altums for a really good price. If it works out I'll be putting a group of 5 in there. If it's just smoke up my rear..well...then I just wait until I've got the money for the discus.


----------



## Wheeler

Very nice, Phil. I can't wait to see it. 

Ever get your CO2 issue worked out? Algae?

Best wishes,
John Wheeler


----------



## ekim

*But we want to come home with you Phil







*


----------



## Phil Edwards

John,

Yeah, I got my CO2 issue worked out. I just needed to refill my tank and raise the bar pressure on the one I had hooked up. The algae was still present so I added 4 SAEs and have been doing manual removals every other day or so this week.

I ended up having to take out most of the Java Moss on the front "fork" as it was totally infested on top and dead beneath. I'll be replacing it soon. I want to let everything settle down and grow again. I'll have pics in a couple weeks.

Ekim,

I want discus too, but if I can actually get the Altums at this deal I was told I'd be an utter fool to pass it up. Besides, I've always got the 55 if I need to and can always get the discus later when the tank's grown in more.


----------



## ekim

Phil, what size is this tank, 4 feet?

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## Phil Edwards

Yes, it's an old style 90g with 1/2" thick glass and no center brace.

Update: I'll have pictures sometime on Wednesday or Thursday. I've induced GW to see if it will help my SAEs get a leg up on the BBA still flowing around. There should be noticable plant growth by then too.









No discus or Altums, but I am getting another 5 A. bitaenata, for a total of 4 pairs. This tank's going to turn out to be an interesting study of Apistogramma colony behavior and hierarchy. I'm hoping that the (now) dominant male creates a harem. I want to see how the sub-dominant males interact with the females.


----------



## Phil Edwards

Updated Pics:

Full View

<edit> Ummmm...the pic came out a LOT bigger than I thought and I can't delete it. Ekim, would you be so kind? Thanks..
</edit>










 
 

[This message was edited by ekim on Tue July 29 2003 at 03:52 AM.]


----------



## Roger Miller

That's a gorgeous tank, Phil.

I notice that you have a light-colored streak at the water line at the back of the tank. My 150 has a similar light-colored line from the inside of the fake oak frame. I find the streak distracting. Given a chance to do it over again, I'd get the black frame to avoid the streak. Do you plan to do anything to hide the streak?


Roger Miller


----------



## Liquid

Wow! love the details in this pix









..but what happen to the discus you are planning to put in this tank?


----------



## Phil Edwards

Roger,

I'm going to take the picture from a slightly higher angle to see if I can get rid of it that way. It may take some image editing though. If all else fails I've always got black duct tape.

Liquid,

I wasn't able to get the Greens I originally wanted to and had to settle for a group of Silvertip Tetras. Recently one of the admins of Simplydiscus was generous enough to donate a group of Wild Blues to my cause and is going to be shipping them down once they're cleaned up and acclimated to captivity.

Ekim,

Thanks!


----------



## ekim

Phil the tank looks great! 
I see you gave up on the moss!
I can't wait to see the wild blues!

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## Guest

Great tank Phil.

Not much to tweak except to edit a picture a bit. Can't wait to see discus swimming.

Bored at work


----------



## Phil Edwards

Jay,

What did you do as far as editing goes?


----------



## Guest

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Phil Edwards:
> Jay,
> 
> What did you do as far as editing goes?


- cut the image to remove excess space above and under the main picture
- I picked the darkest/right upper corner spot, got that color into my pallete, used brush and painted entire background
- painted over filter equipment and reflective stripe
- enhanced a wood a little bit to provide more contrast (Burn option)

Everything done in PhotoShop.


----------



## Phil Edwards

Ok, how did you paint the entire background? Was it a fill in option as in MS Paint?


----------



## Guest

I zoomed in and used the brush. Empty areas -> bucket fill in option.


----------



## Phil Edwards

Here's the most recent photo with the inhabitants of the tank.

The two large are Wild Red Spotted Greens and the four small are Wild Greens.

<edit>
Here's a quick start to present for y'all.




























 
 

[This message was edited by Phil Edwards on Sat September 06 2003 at 06:25 AM.]


----------



## Regturb

Wow. That is one of the most beautiful tanks I have ever seen. Great Job!


----------



## Slappy

Rock and Roll, Phil! I love it. I'm so glad you got those varieties of Discus..my favorites.
Can't beat wild Discus.
----------------------------
Fish Slapping Extraordinaire


----------



## Phil Edwards

Thanks! I totally agree about the discus, I'm SOOOOO glad I wasn't able to get those Altums. The discus are worlds better.

Oh, and would any of you consider this to be densely planted? Would you still consider this to be an Amano-style design or not?

Just for the heck of it I thought I'd post a pic on MyPlantedTank.com and got some interesting replies from one of the members. I guess I've stuck to my own little corner of the world for so long I'm not used to getting slapped down. It's a good lesson.









 
 

[This message was edited by Phil Edwards on Sat September 06 2003 at 12:29 PM.]


----------



## h317

Wonderful picture and tank! Congratulation.

How big is the large ones? They all look big to me. It's a huge job keeping the water quality consistent with live plants. Keep us update, please.

Pictures of my tank


----------



## Guest

Phil,

Great job w/ this tank. I don't think you should have any problems winning biotope section of AGA unless Senske brothers read up on Lake Malawi a bit more (jk)









Make sure you remove the light reflection above and try to take a picture from higher angle.

Report back with result.


----------



## Phil Edwards

h317,

The big ones are about 6-7" each. The small ones are 3-4". I've resigned myself to the fact that I'll be doing small water changes every other day with these guys now. But I guess that's not all bad as the food's going to be putting enough NO3 and PO4 into the water to make up for it...or vice versa..









Jay,

LOL, you crack me up! This tank's nowhere near being a biotope. I'm actually going to enter one of the Aquatic Garden divisions this year..*GASP*









This last pic was a quick shot to show the people who sent me the fish what they looked like and it turned out pretty well. I know y'all had been wanting a new pic so I put it up. I'll see what I can do about a show quality pic tonight.

Best,
Phil


----------



## ekim

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Phil Edwards:
> This is my main display tank that sits across from the couch in my downstairs Man Room/Fish Room/Dungeon.


This tank deserves a spot in your living room IMO!!!
Amazing!!!

BTW are they wild caught or captive breed?

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## Phil Edwards

This tank has the spot of honor in my house...across from my couch downstairs.

I know the little ones are wild caught and I think the big ones may be. I'm not 100% sure, but their features look to be that of wilds or not far removed.

WHere are the pics of your tank?


----------



## Liquid

PURRRFECT!!!


----------



## Phil Edwards

Here's what the tank looked like at about 6:00 this evening.










Here's what it looked like a few hours later..










The previous aquascape was a little too static for my patience level and the fish didn't like the thick foreground. I decided to do what any rational aquatic gardener would do...rescape!

I wanted to add some faster growing plants in hopes that they would buffer the added nutrients I'm getting from the discus and their food. We'll see how it works out.









Enjoy!


----------



## Guest

?????????????

- When did you think about changing your layout ?
- Why didn't you consult first ?

hahah







joking.

But seriously, how come you changed your aquascape. I really like that tank.

You are going to have to come up with something original now to make up for this change.

Godd luck


----------



## Phil Edwards

Jay,

I just wanted to try something a little different. Now that I've got enough aquarium space to be able to keep all the plants I'm not too terribly worried about not being able to change it back in a few months if this doesn't work out the way I want it to. This isn't hard and fast yet. There'll be some minor adjustments in groups of plants. I've already moved the C. wendtii in the front left to the back wall in the "path" (which is full of hairgrass) and it's made a great difference.

Most of the charm of the original aquascape was the way the foreground blended everything together. When I tore it up to give the discus room to pick at the substrate the aquascape lost a lot.

Ironically enough, it's your fault that I finally decided to go through with a redesign. All those great pictures of the ADA tanks on your site inspired me.







I guess I did do some consulting first...LOL!

The previous "Volcano", as the gang in Charlotte took to calling it, made the aquarium look too small and shallow. There was little to draw the eye towards the back. This arrangement has a much better depth factor. I really like the way the wood is arranged now and will probably leave it this way even if I decide to go back to the Crypt and Anubias style of the previous design.

I'll make sure to let you know next time I want to change things in here.


----------



## Vicki

Well, good for you, Phil, I can't imagine doing a redo THAT extensive--not that I wouldn't like to do just that in my 120 gallon, but I'm just not up for the trauma, and I feel sure the fish aren't either, so I have to work in much smaller chunks--even taking out a piece of driftwood is a major trauma for me! What the heck did you do with the discus while you were working?

http://www.wheelpost.com


----------



## Guest

Phil,

ADA pictures are very catchy indeed. There is a lot of "information" and great ideas one could get for future aquascape. I made a lot of plans and took some mind notes for my future projects.

Wood placement in your tank is interesting but if I can be picky for one moment, that F shape branch is killing my eyes







. Your previous scape was excellent so I raised the bar for this tank.

What's the plant on the back ?. E. stellata or L. aromatica ?

What other plants did you add ?


----------



## Phil Edwards

Vicki,

I kept the discus in 5g buckets of water from the tank pre-apocolypse. They did just fine 2 or 3 to a bucket for a few hours.

Jay,

I agree, this aquascape doesn't come anywhere near to the previous in terms of quality of design. At this point the aquascape is a compromise in the fishes' favor. They needed something a little different and I wanted an experiment to see how different plants grow. This is definately an "American" aquascape.

Unfortunately the "F" stick can't be put at many other angles due to the shape of the branch under the gravel/rocks. Each design has to have something that's not quite right, I guess that's it for this one.

The plant in the back is L. aromatica. I was able to get some at a club meeting and thought I'd try it.

Current plant species:
C. wendtii "red"
C. crispulata v. balansae
C. spiralis
A. barteri
A. barteri v. nana
A. barteri v. nana "petite"
M. pteropus
A. reineckii
H. corymbosa
L. aromatica
H. zosterfolia
D. diandra
M. fluviatilis
E. acicularis
Partridge in a pear tree


----------



## George Willms

Hey! I've been dying to try a partridge in a pear tree in my tank! Do you have any to spare?









George

5.5: mid-tech and maintenance, 29: high-tech, mid maintenance, 45 high: low-tech, low maintenance.

More complete tank specs in profile


----------



## Phil Edwards

Sorry George, I don't. I think they come automatically when you put so many things in a tank. You might try asking around, someone may have a spare.


----------



## ekim

looks great Phil!
I can't wait to see it in a week or so, once everything settles down.

Was inspiration taken from p121?

*My Digital Gallery*


----------



## Phil Edwards

Not this time. I got a lot of inspiration from a picture on Jay's site. I was hoping to do something a little different than this, but the landscaping supply companies close early on Saturday and the plants wouldn't have made it from Friday to Monday so I had to plant them.

At first I wasn't too pleased with the rush job, but the more I look at it the more possibilities for future adjustments I see and the more I like it. The fish are doing MUCH better in here, which at this point is what I really care about.


----------

