# PH in Walstad-Style Aquaria



## Luffy (Aug 23, 2012)

Hi NPT buddies!

I was wondering what the PH level is like in the typical NPT. What is the PH level in your tank?! I ask because mine is around 7.5-7.8 and I was wondering if that might be because the substrate cap is acting as buffer against acidity. I had figured the PH would be lower in an NPT. I'm going to test the water in my roommate's tank (different substrate, non-NPT) to compare and test the tap water to see what the differences are. 

I ask mainly because I'd love to keep one of the less common types of betta (B. Rubra, B. Channoides, etc) or a Licorice Gourami. It seems that the tannins and humic substances in an NPT would be wonderful for a blackwater fish; however, they are a bit more fussy about the PH ranges than a typical petshop Betta.

Thanks!

Luffy


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## Yo-han (Oct 15, 2010)

I'm no walstad expert or anything, but without adding CO2 your pH depends mainly on the KH of the water. Your CO2 would be about 3-5 mg/L. Test your KH and check the table below for about 3-5 mg/L. Here you can see a normal pH. 7.5-7.8 would be normal for water with a KH > 7.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

My tap water is about 7.6 pH, and recent tests showed a range of 7.0 to 7.4 in my tanks. pH was lower in tanks with Safe-T-Sorb in the substrate; I think this is because this material tends to absorb minerals from the water.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Don't get too concerned about the pH of your water. Normally, animals and plants don't care about it.

General hardness (GH) refers to the amount of dissolved calcium and magnesium in the water. This is important because the animals and plants need those minerals. "Buffering capacity" (KH) refers to the ability to the water to avoid wide swings in the pH. it has no effect on the amount of CO2 that can be in the water at any one time.

I suggest that you learn to live with the water that you have. Attempting to change its chemical characteristics almost always leads to trouble and frustration.

Here's a link to a short article on aqyarium water chemistry. http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.html

Good luck!

Bill


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## Luffy (Aug 23, 2012)

Essays and graphs! You guys sure do know how to treat a grad student! I love having little tidbits to read and study (even if my brain doesn't retain as much of the info as I wish). Thanks for all of the info!

I still do have questions about PH and some fish though. One fish I'm interested in has it's PH range listed as 3-6 and hardness of 0-90ppm. Living in a tank like mine wouldn't be difficult for the little guy? I'm still pretty new to fishkeeping so some of these chemical things are still largely a mystery to me.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

If you haven't been to Seriously Fish, it is the best fish web site I've ever found. You might look up the species in question there. Just recently they have updated their species profiles on genus _Beta_, and also have several new articles up.

Fish that come from natural habitats with low pH and low hardness do not necessarily require those conditions--it may just be that they can tolerate those conditions when other species cannot. Also, once a species has been bred in captivity for a few generations, there is unintended selection for tolerance to higher pH and hardness. So unless you have wild-caught specimens, they may be much more tolerant of your water chemistry than conditions in their natural habitat would indicate.

Your fish list is really interesting, be sure to show us pictures!


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## jmn (Jun 28, 2012)

My Walstad-styles have pH 7.6-8.4. I live in the Chicago region. All the substrates are the same MTS, same water source (hard city water) but different ornaments (rocks, wood, etc). Maybe the pH is not so dependant on substrate?

Glad of the combo advice of fish will adapt + "bloom where you are planted", ie. not mess with trying to change the water. Puts me at ease after doing these water tests and it's eyebrow raising results.


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## PaulG (Apr 25, 2011)

Mine dropped to 6.0 from 8.0 out of the tap. As water ages it will naturally decrease in ph.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

When you are looking at the more particular fish go by the GH requirement first. If you need to soften your water by blending some distilled or reverse osmosis water then get a gallon and test what happens. See what ratio of RO or distilled you need to soften how much tap water. If the pH is still not right you can add some peat moss to the test and see if that helps. 

Ultimately you can create the optimum conditions for the more particular fish.


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## apistofaner (Nov 16, 2012)

Hi luffy 

For what it's worth I've kept a npt for a while now and my ph has yet to change, remaining at about 7.5ppm although I should state that I change 50% of my water weekly. The best advice I can give you is to repeat what "aquabillpers" said. Your fish don't really care about your ph, they will adjust. Also don't get drawn into trying to manually increase/decrease you ph that is pretty much a waste of money effort and time in my humble opinion.


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

Hatchery raised fish that are several generations or more away from the wild are indeed less particular about water conditions, but the fish listed by the OP are more particular, and need to be catered to.
I would start with a combination of tap water + one of these: Reverse Osmosis, Distilled or Rain water. Find a recipe that brings the GH and KH really close to what these fish come from. If the pH is still not low enough, filter the water through peat moss.


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## aquabillpers (Apr 13, 2006)

Usually when one says that a certain fish needs a high or low pH, one is actually referring to the amount of dissolved carbonate (KH) in the water. PH is a direct function of KH. Some fish need high dissolved carbonates and some lower, and the pH follows accordingly. When one says, for example, that many killifish need acid water, they are really saying that the fish need soft, low KH water.

CO2 injection and other chemical additions will also affect the pH, but even there, the amount of the change in pH for a given volume of chemical is determined by the KH.

Bill


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

For the softer water fish I would start with RO, distilled or rain water. As near to nothing but dihydrogen monoxide as possible.

The first thing I would do is get the GH right. 
Then set the KH fairly close to the GH. 
If that does not bring the pH into the right range, run the water through peat moss.

Here is why:
Most water in the wild has similar levels of GH and KH. While you could likely find some odd water somewhere that the levels are nowhere near each other most water will have these 2 hardness levels pretty close. 
Fish seem to need the right level of GH first. So set that first when you are making a custom blend to raise or breed that fish. Many of the 'How to keep' fish reports use GH as the water chemistry indicator, and pH secondarily. 
Bill is absolutely right that the KH is how you set the pH in the right range. So that is why I say set the KH next. Look at how often the words 'soft' and 'acidic' appear together. Or else 'hard and alkaline'.

The pH may still not be quite right. If the KH is low the pH can still vary. Many native waters have a high level of organic matter, and this will lower the pH. So, once you have the GH and KH right, run the water through peat moss to lower the pH.

Here, for example are several entries for Chocolate Gourami. Note that the hardness is shown as dH, not GH or KH. It really means GH. Then the pH is given as a wide range, even for so picky a fish.

http://www.fishbase.org/summary/Sphaerichthys-osphromenoides.html
http://www.aquabase.org/fish/view.php3?id=399&desc=sphaerichthys-osphromenoides
The Baensch Atlas series is more specific that the hardness is GH. For Chocolate Gourami: 2-4*GH, pH 6.0-7.0, and specifies peat stained water.


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## Luffy (Aug 23, 2012)

Wow. Thanks for the great advice! Now I know how to make this work when I try a real softwater fish  But first, to try saltwater!!!


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