# Bio-Spira and NPT



## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

Would there be any advantage/disadvantage of using Marineland Bio-Spira while starting an NPT? 

I used it to kickstart my quarantine tank and its working great so far!


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

It should help to jumpstart the tank just as it would any other tank. I plan on trying this the next time I set one up.


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## kennyman (Oct 19, 2005)

I am hoping that plant growth will remove the majority of ammonia/ammonium prior to it continuing along the N cycle. Does the el natural method not run the plants hard enough to accomplish this?

I suppose it is related to stocking levels though too. I only have a 3" Bristlenose and pair of Corries in a 55 to start it off. They wont pee that much


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## TeutonJon78 (Nov 10, 2004)

The soil we put in the tanks should have a lot of N-cycle bacteria in it already. If you plant it heavily enough (especially with floating plants), then bio-spira would be a waste of money. Of course, if you putting your entire fish load in at once and want to be safe, then it's probably worth it.

In my tank, I put in 12 cardinals and had no ammonia at all. Remember, for an NPT, measure the ammonia daily when you set it up until it hits zero. When it's at zero, then you should be ready for fish.


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## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

Well it didn't work... thought it did, well atleast I still have ammonia and nitrite. I must have a combination of too many fish, to much feeding, and not enough kH (buffering). I've heard any or all can make spira go bust. Oh well, frequent water changes it is... Hopefully it will establish itself before I move the fish to the next tank so my incoming ones have a nice place to stay while they wait for their chance to enter the big kids playground.

I'll add some live plants in the meantime to see if that helps.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

01krisp10 said:


> Well it didn't work... thought it did, well atleast I still have ammonia and nitrite. I must have a combination of too many fish, to much feeding, and not enough kH (buffering). I've heard any or all can make spira go bust. Oh well, frequent water changes it is... Hopefully it will establish itself before I move the fish to the next tank so my incoming ones have a nice place to stay while they wait for their chance to enter the big kids playground.
> 
> I'll add some live plants in the meantime to see if that helps.


You added soil to the tank on startup without adding plants from the get-go? I would guess that's why you're having ammonia issues. Plants love ammonia. They'll consume that before they start consuming nitrates.


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

Try to add floaters with roots, this will help you to absorb nutrience, something like duckweed, hornwort, or the likes. If you want Salvania Minima, PM me I can send some for the cost of shipping. This is how I helped to break in my tank, and now it's blocking my light haha

Another thing to look for is fast growing stems, Cabomba, Foxtail are two that grow like crazy in my new tank


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## Teeleton (Jun 8, 2006)

Muirner said:


> Try to add floaters with roots, this will help you to absorb nutrience, something like duckweed, hornwort, or the likes. If you want Salvania Minima, PM me I can send some for the cost of shipping. This is how I helped to break in my tank, and now it's blocking my light haha
> 
> Another thing to look for is fast growing stems, Cabomba, Foxtail are two that grow like crazy in my new tank


Be careful. Some states (TX included) outlaw several of the plants that you mention. It's actually illegal to even posess them, much less distribute them.

http://www.ntwgs.org/articles/illegalAquatics.html

Teeleton


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## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

This is a bare quarantine tank, just to clear that up. So, I will get some floating plants, but it doesn't have substrate for obvious reasons.  All good suggestions, going to LFS today to get some floating plants.


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## TeutonJon78 (Nov 10, 2004)

In your QT, I would just add all of the frogbit you have. You could also get some stem plants and put them in there just to grow. 

Bio-spira is a hit or miss...it depends how it's handled from the manufacturer to the store. If they get it from Marineland, should be ok. if they get it from a distrubutor, who knows how long in what stages it sat in different places giving the bacteria time to die.

I know in OR you can't get anacharis as it's labeled noxious.


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## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

Grabbed some pondweed/elodea (just floating them) and some aquarium salt... should fix my nitrite problem until my plants come this weekend (other than my water changes). 

Wish I had my frogbits, oh well. One week! 

Then I'm going to get a bigger tank so I can get my next fish, which are bigger, so I don't have this problem again.


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## kennyman (Oct 19, 2005)

AaronT said:


> You added soil to the tank on startup without adding plants from the get-go? I would guess that's why you're having ammonia issues. Plants love ammonia. They'll consume that before they start consuming nitrates.


Is that still the case for PH above 7? I have read a bit about Ammonia vs Ammonium, plant uptake and the PH values but I am far from truly understanding the chemistry behind it. Could the PH value in Krispies tank hinder the silent cycle?


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## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

Exciting NEWS! 11 days after after adding fish and bio-spira, 2 days after adding elodea and aquarium salt and 50% water changes, 0ppm Ammonia, and 0ppm Nitrite has been achieved!!! 

Was it the plants or aquarium salt or the combination? Or was it the bio-spira? Any speculations?

This is pretty good for a bare 5g tank with 6x glowlight tetras. I'm very happy with this result. 

(Now, if only I would get my plant shipment confimation!)


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## littleguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Plants are unbelievably good at sucking up ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates, in my experience. I've never observed more than a tiny (.25ppm for less than a day) ammonia blip in the several el natural tanks I've set up.


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## TeutonJon78 (Nov 10, 2004)

It would most like be the plants. Perhaps any bacteria that were added got a chance to grow as well. For bacteria to truly be a factor, I think you have to use a wet-dry filter because the bacteria like oxygen to do their work. If you just put them into a tank where they had not much to grab onto (like no rocks/plants/filter media), then they most likely wouldn't do much.

And salt would have no bearing on those levels.


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## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

Yeah salt=bad (ignorant in my case...) I didn't realize this (should have) glow lights are sensitive to salt. 

Well as a result of adding the salt and the very short nitrite spike my poor guys now have fin rot!  

I moved them to a bigger tank (with the established filter), put in 3 potted plants, removed the dead elodea, didn't have a good light, bought one yesterday, now I need a good place for them to hide.

They really don't like the lights (hiding under the heater), gah, can't win!

Any suggestions on the fin rot? Think its just stress related and will fix itself now? Or is it most likely a bacteria I need to remove?


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## TeutonJon78 (Nov 10, 2004)

Just for reference, tetras are lumped in with scaleless fishes (I think most catfishes) for sensitivity. I know that means no salt and if you use chemical treatments, have to probably go a little lighter on the dosage for them. That is why I use the heat treatment for ich. It takes longer, but it works for tetras, ottos, and the like. 

You fish should recover from the fin rot.


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## 01krisp10 (Feb 18, 2007)

Good to hear, yeah figured the scaleless thing out a little late...  I'm surprised with all the reading I've done that I haven't come across that until now. 

I've heard tea tree oil (melafix) can vastly speed up healing without detrimental effects. True?


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## TeutonJon78 (Nov 10, 2004)

I've used Melafix and Primafix with cardinals with no problems. It didn't really help the problem, but the fish developed some weird tumors that wouldn't go away. But, they shouldn't hurt your fish. I think their use is pretty widespread. Not sure how plants would react, so that might be something to consider.


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