# 40 gal planted set up, specific questions



## hmt321 (Jul 1, 2006)

I have a 40 gal breeder that i am going to convert to a mineralized substrate planted tank.

First some info

I added a stone background to the tank (it is some sort of slate, I silicone it to the back of the tank on the inside a few months ago)
here is a thread about the DIY background:
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/fo...one-background

here is a picture:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rutitih5sp...2016.03.25.jpg

Here is all the tech info on the tank:

Height: 17"
Width: 36"
Depth: 18"

Light: Coralife T5 dual - 1 lamp is ACTINIC, 1 is 10,000k
Fish: 1-6" bluegill
Plants: 3 amazon swords in pots, 1 ocolot sword in pot, 1 aponogeton sp ( I think that is what it is anyway) in a pot.
substrate: 1/4" course heavy sand (I got it off of the beach on Mobile Bay, good heavy sand)

PH: 6.8-6.9
KH: 1 (or less, it turned on the 1st drop)
GH: 4

My filter is a Fluval 205.

I have a drip system running on the tank, I drip about 60 gal per week into the tank.

There is no heater on this tank, temp ranges from about 60-70 F

Note on the plants in pots, they have 1.5" of miracle grow potting mix, capped with 2" sand capped with 1" of gravel. Plants are growing like crazy in the pots but i don't really like them(the pots, i like the plants)

The Grand Plan
Create enough mineralized soil to cover the bottom of the tank by 1"

Cover the mineralized soil with about .75" to 1.25" of course sand (same type i have now)

Plant the tank with:

Amazon swords - 4
Ocelot sword - 1
cork screw vals - back of tank
wide leaf sagittaris (sagittaria platyphyllia) -back and midground
dwarf sagittaris - mid-forground
aponogeton sp - back of tank

This winter, 3-4 months after planting I will add fish. shiners, bluespotted sunfish, pygmy sunfish, grass shrimp, ect. (all peaceful community fish)

Questions:
1.) When i make my mineralized soil what should I add to it? given my PH,GH,and KH parameters? I think I need to get my KH up but I am unsure.

2.)I want to stick to rooted plants (i have more luck with them) what other plants will do well in this set up.

3.) is my lighting ok? I can get new bulbs or new fixture if need be.

4.)Am i missing anything?

I want to get away from having to do heavy scheduled maintenance on this tank, I have done the high tech, co2 injection, fert dosing, ect. and that is not what I am after.

My goal is to have a lush, algae free tank w/o consent fert dosing.

thanks


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## tropicpr (May 26, 2013)

I find it interesting you have decided to use actinic and 10k t5s as your source of light. According to most believes, these are bulbs utilized for salt water reef tanks. I have for some years used the exact combination you are planning to use for planted fresh water tanks with no problems. I recommend not replacing the bulbs too often to prevent sudden algae growth. I have often kept the same bulbs for one year and at the time of replacement have done so replacing the actinic first and several days later the 10k. The planted aquariums were I have used this combination though, have not been dirt tanks, have and are fertilized regularly being carefully to prevent variations in the amount of fertilizers added and finally reset weekly with water changes. I think is Ok to experiment after all it is a way of learning. If you decide to make changes try to resist the urge to do many changes too quickly. You have to let the environment adjust to the changes to be able to determine if what you have done is working, besides, too many changes to quickly will provoke imbalances to the aquarium environment.
In reference to your source water parameters and since you are keeping what I think are native fish, the water parameters will have to be good for the fish you are keeping. I mean if these fish are wild caught and come from rather soft waters as your source is, then you have no problems. In terms of plants I think plants need calcium and magnesium in the water column especially plants that are able to take in these macro nutrients directly from the water column. In my case and since the source water where I am from is quite hard, I do not have to worry about the need to add these nutrients. I am not an expert and therefore have to insist you read Diana Walstad study “Ecology of the Planted Aquiarium” and there is a lot of good information in this forum in this regard. I have read the addition of dolomite (carbonate mineral composed of calcium magnesium carbonate CaMg(CO3)2) to the dirt at the moment you are setting up the tank is the way to go when soft water is an issue. I am not sure if you should add the dolomite while mineralizing the dirt or soil. Maybe some of the more experienced participants will be able to direct you in this particular. In terms of your drip system I think maybe a good idea after all in natural ecosystems water is continually being changed. If you can afford such an arrangement go for it! Where I live we have to pay for the water therefore water changes must be account it for in our budgets (those of us who want to stay in the hobby).
I think the plants should be removed from the pots, roots must have freedom to expand and grow. My setup has 1.5 inches of garden soil and 1.5 inches of ecocomplete capping the soil. I am not sure about the use of sand though. Maybe you will get some feedback in this regard from a more experienced participant. The plants you have chosen seem like a good combination. I would agree with you in terms of rooted plants as the better choice, from a perspective of personal choice of course. Read, ask questions and read some more, success with your project and post some pictures when done. I hope I've helped you some.


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## hmt321 (Jul 1, 2006)

Thanks for he reply.

Those bulbs I am using came with the fixture, based on our experience I may leave them.

I have caught the same species of fish in a wide range of water hardness. I live in costal Alabama. Local creeks and streams have soft water. Drive 45 min north and the limestone in the rocks can make the water harder. The fish will adapt just fine to increased hardness of the water.

I have that book, mineralized substrate is a little bit different. Part if the process is to add dolomite to the tank bottom before adding the mineralized soil. This is to keep the capped substrate acidic. I am toying with the idea to add crushed coral to the sand I will use to cap the mineralized substrate, I am thinking it will act as a buffer. I just have know idea how much to add.

I will be brining my existing plants out of he pots when I set up the tank.


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## SBS (Feb 26, 2013)

> This is to keep the capped substrate acidic


I presume you mean to prevent it from going acidic.



> I just have know idea how much to add.


Depends on your water. You don't want to add too much to alter your water stats drastically. If you already have hard water, then it isn't very necessary. I'd suggest dolomite instread of crushed coral, because dolomite contains both calcium and magnesium [CaMg(CO3)2], where crushed coral is basically calcium (CaCO3)


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## SBS (Feb 26, 2013)

> When i make my mineralized soil what should I add to it? given my PH,GH,and KH parameters? I think I need to get my KH up but I am unsure.


Just looked up in your thread earlier. With a Kh of 1 and Gh of 4 you probably need some dolomite. Dolomite is also harder to dissolve and lasts longer. Normally the suggested amount is to sprinkle the bottom so the bottom is still visible.

Additionally, I mixed my soil with red pottery clay to max 5-10% of the soil, as per the Aron Talbot mineralized topsoil thread/recipe available here somewhere.


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## hmt321 (Jul 1, 2006)

I will be dusting the bottom of the tank with dolomite. I already have about 4 lbs of clay powdered ready to roll, once the mineralization process is over.

I added some crushed coral to the tank filter, I will see what it does to the KH and GH. I fear that the MTS will cause the PH to crash. Will the substrate be needing Ca? Will it hurt to mix it in with the Clay?

The tank is currently set up with about half of my plants in pots, and just a little sand in the bottom.


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## SBS (Feb 26, 2013)

The dusting with dolomite at the bottom is to prevent the soil from going acidic, so you have that covered. It will also provide calcium and magnesium source for the plants. I wouldn't mix it with the soil, because you want it to be released as slow as possible and not go into the water column.
If additionally your Kh is too low after that and you fear Ph crashes, you can slowly add crushed coral to the filter and wait until it does it's charm. It may take a few weeks until it stabilizes the kh to a value you like, hence why it's better to start from a lower amount. I'd be aiming at at least 4. If needed, add a bit more crushed coral to the filter down the line if you see the Kh going down too low.


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## hmt321 (Jul 1, 2006)

I am getting feedback that leads me to believe that a low kh, and a gh of 4 is actually good for the tank for this reason.

A lower kh will keep ammonia less toxic to fish while allowing plants to still utilize it. (I do not understand the science behind it)

I will be adding some crushed coral to the filter, so I can get the kh up to a minimal readable level. I have no idea what it is now, just less than 1.

Thanks for the reply


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## SBS (Feb 26, 2013)

> A lower kh will keep ammonia less toxic to fish while allowing plants to still utilize it. (I do not understand the science behind it


Your water is soft, which isn't bad in itself as you can keep soft water species. But you need regular weekly water changes to keep it stable without any further input.
Low Ph accompanied by lower temps keep the ammonia in non-toxic state. But that shouldn't be a concern at all if your tank is cycled and balanced.
The low Kh is a problem in a tank like this if you are not going to do regular water changes, because it will naturally go down even further, and will not buffer the Ph, causing fluctuations. Fish don't appreciate fluctuating Ph at all, especially if it goes too fast which is normally the case when the Kh hits 0.


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## tropicpr (May 26, 2013)

You indicated there is in place a drip system capable of moving 60 gallons of water weekly which with good concentrations of calcium, magnesium and carbonates in your source water there would really be no need to worry about ph crashes. I think though with such low kh, accompanied with water movement and the fact that some plants (some more than others) will take in carbonates from the water column even if the substrate is rather base you may be, at some point in trouble maintaining a stable enough ph to prevent crashes specially when plants are not photosynthesizing during the night causing CO2 levels to possibly rise to rather dangerous levels for the fish. I may be explaining this wrong and if Tom Barr or some of the senior, more experienced members are in the vicinity we may get a clearer picture of some of the chemical reactions involved. I believe the importance of proper levels of carbonate hardness in the water in this case are first; the capacity to buffer the water column and prevent ph crashes and second, enough carbonates in the water column for plant use (if that was the case). My 2 cents...


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

I see a lot of confusion in this thread. It would help for you to first read my book _Ecology of the Planted Aquarium_. Then you would have a better understanding of the basic processes for setting up an NPT.

It bothers me right off that you want to keep the tank at 60-70 F. I understand that this may suit native fish, but these are not optimal temperatures for tropical aquarium plants, especially for the Aponogeton. If your plants are "chilled out", it won't matter what soil you use. Plants won't grow well enough to do their job of purifying the water and substrate. As a compromise, I would try to keep this tank at 72 degrees.

Hope this helps.


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## hmt321 (Jul 1, 2006)

I have been swamped at work thanks for the response.

*SBS*

I generally do water changes about twice a month, between 15-25 percent depending on the tank. I added some crushed coral to the filter about two weeks ago. It is my understanding that the KH/GH should level off. In one week the KH became readable, in two weeks it was KH is now 3, GH is 6. It is my understanding that it should stabilize at some point. I may half the amount of crushed coral in the filter.

*tropicpr*

60 gal per week was a result of _math while drinking_ lol. I re-calculated and it looks like about 12-15 gal per week. I will still do bi-weekly water changes.

*dwalstad*

I own your book, I will admit it have been a few years (and a house move) since I have read it. The temperature increase is not a problem. Currently it is at 73 F. I would like to "winter" the native american fish I plan on keeping, but it is really not necessary.

Thanks again for the responses.

As soon as the weather drys out I will finish the drying process for my Mineralized Top Soil.

I am about 2 weeks out for setting the tank up.


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