# Ceramic or Clay decorations



## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

The discussion of ornate tanks has got me thinking on some future ideas.

Presently I'm spending money on breeding tubes for fish which are simply too plan looking for me.

Has any one done any ceramic or clay aquarium decorations. From the info I have seen they should be very cost effective to make with the exception of the fact they need to be fired. Purchasing furnaces seem to be almost as expensive as a furnace for your home. But if someone has a furnace can someone buy furnace time? 

If this becomes feasible I can also see myself doing various decorations for Aquariums. 

Looking for thoughts and ideas on this.


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## pandragon (Jul 10, 2014)

Sometimes you can have a pottery shop fire your works for you. A long time ago, when I was in elementary school, we glazed some air dried pieces and the teacher had them fired somewhere since the school didn't have its own kiln. You could, theoretically, make a kiln too, but I am not sure if you could get the temps high enough and stable for hardening the clay and glaze properly as you could in a proper kiln (especially without some experience or a lot of practice pieces)

Good luck!


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

Actually when I go back to my college days I took a class that included some clay creations. They had there own kiln in the class room and it seemed to going constantly. When one batch was done the next batch was already waiting to go into the kiln. We were only allowed a max of 4 pieces per semester to be run through the kiln and those pieces had strict size restrictions on them. I remember my first piece cracked in the kiln because the thickness was not consistent enough throughout the piece supposedly causing different drying and shrinkage rates. 

For making some simple aquarium pieces the cost of taking a class like that again for access to a kiln would be a waste as I could buy pieces commercially for a fraction of the cost. But yes the possibility of finding a pottery shop that would rent kiln time is a thought. Only thing is to find one near by.


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## peridot (Feb 24, 2005)

I also have wondered about ceramic furnishings for tanks. There are a fair number of potters in my area. I like having retaining walls in my tanks to make interesting levels and terraces. Making a mockup of the tank with a rough mock up to the walls might simplify the design process. The firing would, of course, be on the potters schedule. You who have ceramics background does this sound do-able?


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

peridot This is what I have been working on myself. I did a lot of local checking and found several places with kilns who will charge me $7.00 per hour of kiln time. Considering your talking two firings that can last up to 6 hours each I need to alternates here as a group of objects could cost me $84.00. If it is big enough kiln to fire 12 objects that is not bad but if it can only fire 2 or 3 at a time then it is big issue. 

Researching different clay and glaze mixes is also an item of concern. There are lot of chemicals used to produce various colors and textures all of which are not food safe least of all aquarium safe. Therefore material selection is very important.

Last but not least is the cost of clays and glazes. These vary considerably. I have found that of the same material the price difference can be as much as 50 times based the quantity your buying, individual your buying from, and shipping costs. 

On a rough cost estimate I found making a retaining wall 4" tall and 18" long would cost me roughly $120 if I just built one. But if could build 20 of them the cost would drop to about $20.00 each. 

If I find a reasonable firing means then I was thinking of marketing some creations on a small scale. Kiln time presently is 80% of the cost not counting my labor time in.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

The safety issue is easy, just use products that are food-safe after firing.


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## pandragon (Jul 10, 2014)

May be cheaper to buy a small kiln that can hand one or two objects for small things. Large retaining walls could be made as smaller pieces and fired in your own oven. You can always sell your creations on various websites or at local street fair things.


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

Michael said:


> The safety issue is easy, just use products that are food-safe after firing.


When your working with the dyes and glazes it is not that simple. Many are listed as food safe for dinnerware when sealed with a clear glaze, but only for decorative edging and areas that do not prolonged contact with food or beverages. This is why a lot of the fancy mugs are only fancy on the outside.

There is also a factor of the variance in the water absorption between different clays even after glazing and curing. For aquarium use I would want a clay glaze combination with the minimum water absorption.


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

pandragon said:


> May be cheaper to buy a small kiln that can hand one or two objects for small things. Large retaining walls could be made as smaller pieces and fired in your own oven. You can always sell your creations on various websites or at local street fair things.


The kilns are expensive beyond the cost of the kiln itself. When you start looking at something which can handle an object larger than 12" your well over $1,000. And when you hit the 16" range your talking about the need for a 480 Volt electricity that is not available for me if I even wanted to pay for it. I would have to rent out space in an industrial area.

What makes them expensive is your running at temperatures as high as 2,300 degrees and in some cases a 25 degree difference is the difference between the clay completely curing and it turning into melted glass.


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## killiedave57 (Dec 25, 2014)

TT:
I noticed this thread and figured I would have to look at it a bit.
In fact I have a good friend that has been experimenting with clay types that are aquarium safe, while made of a composite that is supposed to be neutral in aquarium water. He is a bit of an expert on this area, and has done a lot of research, with the initial intent to make a new style of "orchid" pot, that wicks better than the typical terra cotta pots. Part of it is the mix, and part is how it is fired,, temps etc. (a lot of this is more than I know so I don't want to get caught up in the whole thing)
I grow and hybridize orchids (as does he) but I have more than he has. Anyhow, he made some pots he wanted me to beta test and one thing led to another and I got him working on pleco caves.
I friend of mine in MI that breeds plecos got him to make some custom ones... different sizes and shapes, but the bottom line was he had a real hard time with the drying (as he wanted them to dry slowly) and not having them crack. it was a juggling act to have them dry correctly, before they hit the kiln.
He was actually the owner of a clay/pottery business here in Richmond Va. he has a good sized kiln, as some of the pleco caves were 15" long. 
if you are interested I may be able to get him to get with you to talk mixes, ie... safe ones..
david


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

David:

This is not far from where where my idea first started from. We have a local individual that makes pleco and chiclid caves that are fairly drab looking and he gets a good price for them. My thought was I initially wanted some for my display tank that were decorative. Since I like things unique and don't like to spend a lot of money the idea of building my own came in. 

Since I have a commercial art degree that included at course in pottery and clay sculpture the idea seems a little more workable for me. But things are slowly blowing out of proportion on this idea for me now. It could be good or it could turn into a money pit.

What really set this off is the idea of building retaining walls that were also decorative and not looking like they were not production caste. The make or break situation on this is the ability to get access reasonably to a good kiln. 

The clay will not be a huge issue. But what is the scale I want end up going. I can get local mixed clay from pottery shops for $25 per pound. Yet if want to large scale I found a rang of prices from $15 to $50 for a 50 pound bag of dry clay dependent on the type, plus shipping of course. Do I want to even go that large scale? 50 pounds of clay could make an awful amount of items?


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## killiedave57 (Dec 25, 2014)

Like i said earlier.... which is my disclaimer.... apparently, there are a lot of undesirable elements in your "normal" clay, (aluminum sulphate?, etc) that isn't a problem with some clay products that are glazed to the point they do not dissapate into the water, and this is why my buddy brian spent a lot of time doing experiments to see how much of given substances leech into the water, anyhow.. i don't know all the details basically he told me his product was fish friendly.
I ordered a bag of clay for my possible mts project and had to search out for the clay product that I was told to look for
anyhow... I like your idea of the backdrops or dividers..
Maybe you could come up with a plan to make it in sections that would "attach" to each other hence eliminating the "size" issue....
just a thought.
d


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

killiedave57 said:


> Maybe you could come up with a plan to make it in sections that would "attach" to each other hence eliminating the "size" issue....
> just a thought.
> d


The issue is finding a kiln which will reasonably rent time which is not to small. Yes I thought of the idea doing sections and will probably end up doing sections since my main idea is working with a 120 gallon tank. I don't think there is kiln with a 48" dimension outside mufti million dollar corporations willing to rent. So if I break it down to three 16" sections I'm in a little better place but still that size kiln is usually running on 480 volts. Cutting it down to 12" sections would work with more kilns but I could only run a one or two pieces per kiln period.

I do have a contact that I'm waiting for them to get back to me. They actually have two kilns one that would allow 24" pieces and the other would allow 14" pieces that could be stacked in them. The problem is they they do not run them in the winter so there is a delay there. A local potter gave me the info on them and he said he prepares the pieces in the winter and they do the firing for him in the summer. He claims they are reasonable for firing time but they do not have set prices, and he ends up bargaining with them every time he has a few batchs.

Yes you have to watch the composition of the clay. Some also have a lot of copper in them which is not great for planted tanks. This is not just the clay itself but some of the glazes as well. While I want to work with yellow and browns the glazes on many of the yellows are NOT food safe.


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