# Please offer suggestions for small fish for NPT



## yum (Feb 11, 2008)

I'm ready to start stocking my 20 gallon long NPT and I'm looking for types of very small fish. It's about 3/4 planted mid to high plants with driftwood and I plan to add flesh out the tank with some shorter plants with the goal of 90% ground coverage.

Only 2 watts per gallon and a heater. No filtration. 

I plan on keeping Red Cherry Shrimp as I hear they are the hardiest and breed easily. Easy intro shrimp.

I'm also very interested in pygmy cories (Pygmaeus specifically). Having a hard time finding them at LFS in Chicago, though!

I'm looking for suggestions for fish that stay very small: max size 1.5" or smaller and would be ok with minimal water changes and still water.

What do you think of dwarf gouramis in this set up?


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## helgymatt (Sep 12, 2007)

Many tetras, rasboras, danios, clouds, etc.... Go to your LFS and look at their fish! Any of these fish should be OK with minimal water changes as long as your water quality also remains OK. You need to do water changes to keep anything healthy!


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

If you want to breed shrimp you may not want to add fish yet. Baby shrimp are very tiny, and a natural food for most fish. Any fish you keep with them will likely eat the baby shrimp, even if they are ok with the adult shrimp. I'd heard that Otocinclus catfish won't but hadn't heard from anyone who successfully raised shrimp with them in the tank. I understand Otos will consume eggs on the substrate, so probably tiny shrimp also. Corys definitely eat baby shrimp as part of their natural forage. So will danios, neons, rasboras... I was in the same spot you are. I ended up putting just shrimp in a 10 gallon NPT, still waiting for babies (females are saddled, no eggs yet). I understand once they breed, they breed like crazy. You may want to add fish to control their population when it's bigger. I'm sorry to bear bad news. I hope you can find a happy solution.


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## newbie314 (Mar 2, 2007)

I've gotten 8+ new babies, and at least one pregnent female.
I've got three glo-light tetras and one mean dwarf crayfish.
The key seems to be lots of hiding places especially moss. I have a lot more moss on the bottom of the tank, and this co-incides with the influx of babies.
Also I keep a jungle canopy on the left of the tank, and I also keep a ball of floating dense HM.


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## ItsDubC (Jan 12, 2008)

Check out the microrasboras, specifically Boraras maculatus and Boraras brigittae. These would be my recommendation. If you can't find them, simulans (aka green neeon tetras) are smaller than the normal neons and may be a good fit as well.


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## yum (Feb 11, 2008)

thanks for the input thus far.

i was at the LFS and HUZZAH! they have some nice cherry shrimp for $0.99 each! i was afraid i was going to have to order them online! i don't think that i will be getting them just yet. i read a bit about the shrimp and even though they are hardy, i should probably wait a bit for the tank to stabilize. so maybe in month?

they had a few interesting fish as well that i was interested in.

bumble bee goby? i read this is more of a brackish water fish but also read people have success in pure freshwater. these guys are tiny! very interesting looking and colorful. i think they will also eat the shrimp so i'm not so sure. i think if i've got tons of plants and plenty of hiding places the shrimp may be good.

my girlfriend wants to get fancy guppies. and while i think they look great, they just seem too "common" for me. but, i will probably get 4 males so she will be happy.

i was also looking at 2 types of dwarf gourami. i don't know the exact species but they were quite small. one was a nice golden yellow and the other was a silky red.

i also saw a small species of Rachovi Killifish.

sorry for being so vague. i stopped in just before they were closing and didn't write anything down.

question about stocking limits. for example, it says a fancy guppy should be in a 20 gallon tank, does that mean to have 2 i'd need 40 gallons?


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## will5 (Oct 26, 2005)

No not really.

You could go by the 1 inch of fish per gallon rule at adult size. 

I must say that you are doing the right thing by looking at fish and then researching them. Most people don't.


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## yum (Feb 11, 2008)

will5 said:


> No not really.
> 
> You could go by the 1 inch of fish per gallon rule at adult size.
> 
> I must say that you are doing the right thing by looking at fish and then researching them. Most people don't.


Thanks. I used to just throw everything together in a tank when I was kid but now I'm a tad more responsible. :heh:

I'll give you a call later today after I get off work about the Java Fern if you're still holding it for me.


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## Squawkbert (Jan 3, 2007)

BBGoby - nope, they're brackish & picky about eating

Dwarf Gouramis will almost certainly be a lot ahrder on your shrimp than smaller fish would be. Most are also somewhat aggressive/pushy toward smaller fish, I wouldn't recommend them very highly. If you go this way anyways, just get one...

Pristella Tetras are cheap, attractive, tough, sociable and school nicely

Black mollies are interesting, if larger - they really like to root through low lying grassy cover, which is fun to watch. I'd be careful to get only females or males though (unless you want LOTS of 'em).

Harlequin Rasboras are also nice - pretty well fit the same niche as Pristellas.


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## Tentacles (Jun 25, 2006)

Endlers or white tail minnows are tough as old boots and won't bother the shrimp, neither will the smaller tetras. Blue/red columbian tetras are fairly athletic schooling fish, that look showy, won't bother the shrimp and will entertain with their antics.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

i just got a look at the tank and i would say keep a theme with the tetras its going to look nice


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## yum (Feb 11, 2008)

bratyboy2 said:


> i just got a look at the tank and i would say keep a theme with the tetras its going to look nice


edit: updated the the pics of the tank: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...oil-down-plants-what-s-next-3.html#post368672

Thanks. I had the water tested yesterday at the LFS and they said my ammonia was in the "safe" range but not "ideal" so I held off on getting any fish. I think it might be b/c I stirred up the dirt some more trying to replant some bits that got loose. I finally ended up rubber banding them to a rock. Man, I was so frustrated! I changed out about 5 gallons yesterday and the water is looking nice and clear.

I think 4 fancy guppies are going in today (provided the water is tests good). The gf likes them and I'll encourage her in the hobby in any way I can. :-D

I've got a lead on a local guy that is breeding some Cory Hastastus. He said there a few fry now and hopefully in a month or so, I can buy some from him.

I think I'll put in an otto today as well. Got a tiny amount of algae starting on the front glass. Do ottos like to be in groups or do they mind being solo?

I think I'll get a few of those snails with the long spiral shells as well, as they appear to be good at scouring the bottom of the tank. There are 2 types of snails that hitchhiked in with the plants now and they seem to be more interested at skimming the surface and the plant leaves. One seems to have a shell shaped like a cinnamon bun and the other is a more like a squat spiral. Both seem to be common as far as I know.

I also saw what I think are a mated pair of (sp?) Rachovi Killifish that look interesting. I read that Killis are very hardy and peaceful, but short lived  These have a nice blue and red pattern.

I'll keep my eye open for some nice tetras today, as well. I think with my fish choices so far, I need a few fast movers.


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## ItsDubC (Jan 12, 2008)

The snails w/ the long spiral-shaped shells are called MTS, or malaysian trumpet snails. They burrow into the substrate and help keep it aerated. The snail w/ the shell that looks like a cinnamon bun (mmm...) is most likely a ramshorn snail, and the other is most likely a common pond snail (if the shell is football-shaped). Snails expedite the decomposition process of plant matter etc in the tank so I don't mind them at all.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

sounds like you got it figured out...i like killies but i would be cautious because they could get harrased easily and they are avid jumpers!!!! omg they are crazy! snails leve them they are natural and amzing you will be lost with out them...also the other fish sound great ottos are schoolers so get about 5 at least and make sure they are FAT and happy...guppies are fine they are nice but thats what i was talking about with the killies. the guppies might harrass the killies by trying to poke them to much so if anything get some femals for them to play with...and the cories hey no worries with them...ha!:bathbaby:happy fish keeping


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

After seeing the killifish on eBay I became interested in the killifish. Found that some are annual and some are non-annual. They are hardy and need only 2.5 gallon tank. Like betta don't need heating or filteration. Unlike betta get along with other peaceful fish. Aphyosemion killifish and Fundulopanchax are non-annuals that are good for beginners, according to the AKA. Only bad thing is that they are jumpers. Read some get out through the HOB filters. I use sponge filters though so they shouldn't be able to get out of my tank.

Also found a pair of killifish offered for the price of shipping at this site - http://www.thefishwizards.com/html/fish4sale.htm. The requirement for this offer is to join AKA (American Killifish Association) - www.aka.org. Shipping for me to Georgia, USA is $9.95. I also bought a microworm culture from him for $2.00. I Haven't recieved them yet so comment on the quality of the pair.

I am hopping to breed them to trade for aquarium items at a LFS. Only found one, which is 20 miles from me, which will trade with me. Told that people here in Geogia aren't interested in them.


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## mommyeireanne (Oct 24, 2007)

Maybe that LFS just isn't the best business around, and doesn't see a lot of interest? Don't sweat it. Good luck with your fishkeeping. Good thread! 
And thanks newbie, you give me hope that I may be able to keep my Cherries going with other fish.


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## Sedghammer (May 22, 2008)

What pet store did you find those cherry shrimp at yum? I live in the chicagoland area and haven't been able to find cherry shrimp anywhere...and at that price i'd be willing to travel a little.

If you for some reason haven't stocked your tank yet or are looking to try some new fish, I'd go with any of the "micro-rasboras" or any of the Paedocypris species. Check this out-

http://budak.blogs.com/the_annotated_budak/2006/01/paedocypris_pro.html

Quite an amazing little fish. They were captively spawned by a zoo out east, but it's yet to be seen if they'll come into the hobby. There are other species of Paedocypris that you can obtain from specialized fish vendor sites (PM me if you are interested).


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## yum (Feb 11, 2008)

Sedghammer said:


> What pet store did you find those cherry shrimp at yum? I live in the chicagoland area and haven't been able to find cherry shrimp anywhere...and at that price i'd be willing to travel a little.
> 
> If you for some reason haven't stocked your tank yet or are looking to try some new fish, I'd go with any of the "micro-rasboras" or any of the Paedocypris species. Check this out-
> 
> ...


Very interesting little fish. Thanks! It turns out that the LFS was 'officially' selling the cherry shrimps for $5.99 each but the manager was offering them to me for 99 cents b/c we had a good conversation and hooked me up. LOLZ! So, I was able to get a really good deal and now my 7 have turned into dozens. I'll PM you about the shrimp.


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## dawntwister (Sep 29, 2007)

At a petstore I noticed the gourami fish eat the plants. Thus you got be careful about what plants you have in the tank with the gourami. Watersprite would be eaten up by them.


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## Brooklyn Plant Guy (May 23, 2008)

Hi;
Just figured I'd add my two cents. Most small fish like tetras will be fine with the adult shrimp but newborn shrimp are so tiny that virtually any fish will go after them. The good news is that in a heavily planted tank a few from each brood should escape predation. Rather than looking at the size of the fish concentrate more on the size of the mouth. I once tried putting killies (Fundulopanchax gardneri) in with some shrimp and 6 killies ganged up on an adult shrimp and ripped her to bits. I have had good luck with guppies and tetras mixed with shrimp, but one of my favorite combos are the small pencilfish (like the tubemouth, beckford and red coral pencilfish). If you put all male guppies together without some females to distract them they will nip at each others tails and become unattractive. Guppies will be happiest in a 1:2 male/female ratio. 
Good luck


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## apistomaster (May 24, 2008)

The Honey Dwarf Gourami is most often now available in a selectively bred xanthanistic variety which is smaller than the wild form. Colisa sota. This gold/red form is not going to harm anything. This is not the same species as the common Dwarf Gourami. Colisa lalia. These Gourami do not eat plants.

Very few Killies are good community fish, least of all any of the annuals. Nothobranchius rachovii is among the most colorful of fresh water fish but they rarely live one year and are well over the hill at 8 months. The Nothos are very predatory and will eat any shrimp the size of Cherry Shrimp. They are best kept by themselves over boiled peat. Collect and damp dry the peat and rewet N. rachovii in ~5 months for new fish. They often begin hatching in minutes. I have been a member of the AKA off and on since 1968 and have bred well over 100 Killiefish species.

A very good source of small fish for nano-type aquariums is www.franksaquarium.com. He always has a good selection of Boraras spp. as well as many other small fish and shrimp.

I breed two dwarf Corydoras spp; C. hastatus and C. habrosus in permanent set up 20 gal Long. I raise cherry shrimp with the C. hastatus and Crystal Red Shrimp with the C. habrosus. They have no effect on the shrimp populations. Typical Dwarf Corydoras breeding set up for their continuous breeding is shown below.


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