# I need soil



## Skizhx (Oct 12, 2010)

I've been trying to set up an NPT for quite awhile now (I first wanted to do this about a year and a half ago), but I just can't find a suitable soil.

My water is a little hard, so all I really need is a potting soil with something organic like peat moss in it.

I can't find this. Every brand I've seen has fertilizers, dolomite (which I don't think I need), wetting agents, etc.

If I could even just get a plain soil with a bit of clay content I'm sure I could probably add peat moss and dead leaves myself, but I'm at a loss.

Can someone recommend some specific brands I should be looking for in Canada? My primary sources would probably be Home Depot or Canadian Tire. Maybe Walmart, etc.

I'm hesitant to use soil I've found outside here as I'm sure it's likely to be polluted with something I wouldn't want my fish in.

Thanks!


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## penfold (Dec 7, 2010)

If it were me, I'd just look for a forested area that's obviously not maintained, and dig some up. Pollutants will be assimilated or broken down in time, so as long as you can find an area that hasn't been managed for a few years, the soil should be fine.

As for bagged soils, Miracle Gro Organic Choice potting mix seems to be the most popular choice around here. Dolomite is usually added to peat based potting soils to neutralize the acidity of the peat. It also provides a bit of calcium, magnesium, and carbonate hardness, none of which are bad for aquariums.


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## Skizhx (Oct 12, 2010)

That miracle grow is what I've had my eye out for, but haven't been able to find it yet.

Maybe the stores just haven't started stocking it cause I haven't looked at the right time of season for it.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

Another Canadian member of the forum used MGOC, and I believe he bought it at Home Depot. So it is available in at least some parts of Canada.

You're right, it may be a seasonal item.


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## Skizhx (Oct 12, 2010)

checked Home Depot, they had the miracle grow organic choice potting mix.

They were just setting it up for sale, so looks like I got there just in time.

I also picked up some peat moss cause hey, can't go wrong with keeping some peat handy.


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## B-9 (Apr 11, 2011)

Id just screen some topsoil from your yard.


MG organic choice, is full of bark and twigs. lots of floaties. Also one of the main ingredients is composted poultry manure. AKA chicken poop.. This is were the "organic" part of the name comes from.

it is an ORGANIC fertilizer.


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

I've used MGOC straight from the bag, soaked with floaters removed, and mineralized. It worked well every time no matter what I did to it, or didn't do to it.


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## jetajockey (Nov 11, 2010)

You can use just basic cheap topsoil, screen it for the big pieces if you want, but it's ultra cheap and works just fine.

I have mineralized topsoil in several of my tanks.


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## Skizhx (Oct 12, 2010)

Well the tank's already been set up and running for almost a week now... Still some low ammonia levels, so not quite ready for the fish. I just put the soil in dry, capped it, then filled slowly. No mess. Was fairly easy. Left all the twigs, etc in...


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

I've been wondering about the Miracle Grow potting mix myself so this thread has been helpful to me.

For those who have used it, have you had any problems with it like nutrients depleting very quickly or the soil leeching tannins into the water?


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## Skizhx (Oct 12, 2010)

So far, I've had very very minimal tannin release...

If you didn't know better you'd probably think it was just the lighting, or the organic nature of the inhabitants and waste giving it the slightest tinge.

On a scale of 1/10, 10 being completely crystal clear water straight from the tap, 1 being black water, I would rate this at 8.5/10.

One bit of advice though... If you go putting plants in and pulling them out after the tank's filled, it'll get a little bit cloudy. I would personally plan the aquascape in advance and do all your planting before the tank is actually full.

The soil holds onto thin stems, etc very well so there shouldn't be any problems with stems floating up after they're planted.


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

The amount of tannins you have don't sound too bad.  I had used a soil in the past that made the water look like a dark tea but it was a betta tank so he didn't mind it one bit.

Even when I set up my very first NPT back in 2007, the one thing I never did was add the plants while the tank was filled with water whether it be completely full or partial. I just never understood the point of doing it that way.

What I do is I add the soil(while it's dry) and then I add the gravel on top of it. Then I proceed to add the plants and once all of that is done, I add the water, using a dish to deflect it so it doesn't stir anything up. I've never had any muddy water or even the slightest bit of cloudiness from doing it this way. The only time I may get a bit of a cloudy color is when there is a bacterial bloom.


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## Skizhx (Oct 12, 2010)

That's exactly what I did.

Problem was I didn't have all the plant I wanted at the time, so I just used the clippings I took from my high-light tank. Then I went out the next day and bought the rest of the plants and planted them with the tank full and moved a couple plants around for the scape.

Wasn't a big deal or anything. Just looked bad for 2-3 days. It was also probably somewhat due to a bacterial bloom or something.

Fingers crossed it gets ready for the fish soon... Planning on a few guppies and trumpet snails... Nothing special. Just a fun experiment to give the low-tech approach a try.


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## Skizhx (Oct 12, 2010)

Just adding my experiences to the collective knowledge here, but the PH of this tank matches the PH of my tap.

I have not tested the KH or GH though.

My tap water has PH of 7.4-7.6 with dGH 9 and dKH 3.

Maybe the soil changes the hardness a bit,but couldn't be that drastically, it doesn't seem like this soil is having any drastic impact on the PH. So that's worth noting 

Day 5 of the tank. Ammonia has disappeared, nitrites present, ran out of nitrate test reagent -_-

Looks like diatoms are showing up. Hoping the tank will be ready for inhabitants soon-ish.


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## demonr6 (Feb 24, 2011)

If you are getting the brown diatoms I would suggest olive nerites. Just two in my 5 gallon and the bd doesn't stand a chance. Prior to adding the olives I was cleaning with a toothbrush weekly.. now it is spotless. Something my apple snail would not do.


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## Skizhx (Oct 12, 2010)

Not gonna bother doing anything about it. In my past experience diatoms are to be expected in a new setup. I'm sure it'll go away on its own once the plants start growing and things settle in.

If it doesn't, or if it starts getting out of control, then I'll think about doing something


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## Red_Rose (Mar 18, 2007)

Skizhx said:


> Not gonna bother doing anything about it. In my past experience diatoms are to be expected in a new setup. I'm sure it'll go away on its own once the plants start growing and things settle in.
> 
> If it doesn't, or if it starts getting out of control, then I'll think about doing something


With my first tank, I chose to do nothing about the diatoms that were forming and even though the plants were growing very well, the diatoms refused to disappear. They got so thick that I could barely scrape them off the glass with a metal algae scraper! Once I put a couple of Zebra nerites in the tank, the diatoms were cleared in 2-3 weeks.

I think you could easily put just one nerite in the tank for now. If the diatoms continue to form and it's too much for the one to take on then you could easily add a couple more.

Also, when you get another nitrate test kit, I would like to know what the readings are for it if you don't mind. The first thing that comes to mind with a soil that contains fertilizers is that the nitrate reading would be high so it would be interesting to see if the nitrates drop, raise or just stays in one range with that soil.


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## Skizhx (Oct 12, 2010)

I'll let you know, but it may be a week before I get more reagent. I have problems reading the API tests. Colours are too close for me to differentiate between safe and toxic levels so I'm waiting for the store to get a shipment of a different brand.

When I set my 29gal I original had it running sort of NPT... Except I was using flourite black sand for substrate instead of soil... Low light and no ferts though... (come to think of it I think I was actually using root tabs every 6 months)

That tank had a lot of diatom growth but it never got bad and eventually it receeded on its own, so I'm not too concerned.

Thing is the tank's been running for about a week now so I can't guarantee you how much the nitrate readings will reflect the contents of the soil.

If bacterial growth turns the nitrites into nitrates, well... Not much I can do... I did use some plants from my well established tank so it may be somewhat seeded...

Ammonia was not very high to begin with though, and there were no nitrites present initially. I have not yet tested nitrates at all in the tank. As far as ammonia is concerned though, there was a little less present in my water than I would have used to run a fishless cycle. So we're talking maybe 1-2ppm from roughly 1 inch of soil in a standard 10gal aquarium footprint with water filled to the top after ~12 hours.


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## Skizhx (Oct 12, 2010)

Red_rose, I borrow an API liquid nitrate test from someone else and tested my water.

The water inside the tank tests 10ppm NO3.

Note though that my tap water normally tests around 5ppm NO3 straight from the tap.

Also note that the gravel cap layer I used was mixed partially from gravel that was once in a quarantine tank and was mildly rinsed before use...

So it's possible that the nitrates may have come from elsewhere, or may have been lowered somewhat by the plants. But I can't see the plants lowering the nitrates that much.

Anyways, that should be enough information to answer your question about this soil.


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