# help I can't get rid of Black Beard Algae



## vinman

Does anyone know how to get rid of Black Beard Algae. It is ruining my planted tank


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## vancat

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/20172-excel-treatment-bba-experiences.html


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## vinman

thanx for the link but what is Fluorish Excel


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## neilshieh

flourish excel is a glut dilution made by seachem which provides food for the bacteria who use it and produce co2. in a simpler sense, its an algaecide and carbon source. you can buy a bottle or make your own. please post your water params. you'll be surprised how important good water testing kits are. essential for algae fighters too. i'm suspecting too little vacuuming, not enough co2, other nutrient imbalances.


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## vinman

I'm suspecting too little vacuuming, not enough co2, other nutrient imbalances. You hit that on the head.

How do I make my own Fluorish Excel please. I was hoping there was some type of fish or shrimp that would eat it


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## vancat

Siamese Algae Eaters will eat it but most people here have a love/hate relationship with them. I like them myself.


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## vinman

vancat said:


> Siamese Algae Eaters will eat it but most people here have a love/hate relationship with them. I like them myself.


Please explain why and will they bother my shrimp or my livebeares


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## vancat

no- they shouldn't. By the way, people call them SAEs so search for that if you want to find more info.
Pros: 
Only fish that eats BBA!
Cool fish with a personality
Cons:
Supposedly only eats BBA when it's small
Very hard to catch, sometimes jumps
Can be hard to identify a true SAE if you don't know what you are looking for (there are articles online- try thekrib.com) and can be misnamed and confused with other undesirable fish 
Can be hard to find a supplier
Happiest in a group, although mine is fine alone

google away


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## vinman

thanx for the info


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## vancat

you can also spot treat with hydrogen peroxide, but read up on that.


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## vinman

TOO RAMPED !!!!!!!. It has put a lot of damage on my plants


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## niko

Using any kind of chemical to combat algae is very much a sign that the entire tank is not being run properly.

Black Beard Algae are the best indicator that something is off with the tank. They are the second worst algae you can have (#1 is Cladophora). But most people believe that BBA are the worst because they seem hard to get rid of.

Black Beard Algae can be reduced by establishing excellent biological filtration. That means excellent flow - flow that makes the plant leaves wave in the current. If you don't have such good flow everything else you do is undermined.

I used to believe that BBA is a direct result of the presense of organics in the aquarium. Meaning that if you removed all the organics BBA would die. If I understand correctly BBA feeds like a marine coral - filtering food from the water. So if you cleaned the water well and there was no food then BBA should be reduced and even die.

But I don't think that is true any more. I have a 55 gal. tank with about 60 Black Sulawesi Gobies. Each fish is about 1" long. They eat A LOT. Every day I dump about between 3 and 4 oz. of bloodworms in that tank! I introduced BBA with some Java Fern about 2 months ago. I expected the BBA to explode. But it has not grown at all. I bet that tank has a ton of organics at least for a shor time after I feed. But the tank also has good flow and Poret filters. So there must be some kind of corellation between the good filtration and the BBA despite the 
presense of organics.

The flow in that tank is unobstructed. Only the small bush of Java Fern is in the middle. The strong flow comes from 3 air stones.

In any case - I'd suggest improving the filtration if you can. If you want more information look at the responses to posts that I've written in the last 2 months - there is a lot of promising information about filtration that we collectively uncovered recently.

--Nikolay


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## vinman

thank you


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## neilshieh

what niko says is true, you'll see once you explore the forum more, he is a strong advocator of good filtration and of course, lava rock. and its not unjustified it's true, according to him, its how the japanese aquarists do it and it works great for them. so better filtration is one thing you'll have to consider. SAE's and h2o2 will only hinder BBA not fix it.


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## BobAlston

I have finished entered my third daily treatment of Excel in my 55 gallon at 3x the normal dosage. I was hoping to see the BBA turn red just before dying. Nothing yet. Except one of my adult angels just died. The other seems to be OK.

Ideas?

Bob


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## vinman

I added salt to my 95 gal long after a water change I put extra salt in and where ever the salt landed it turned the Black hair Algae deep red. I found out from a local pet store owner who is a friend/customer that T5 lighting kills BBA. All he has is a box filter in a 20 high some fish and a tank full of plants and no BBA. He has the light on for 10 hours a day with T5 double bulb strip


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## Jeffww

vinman said:


> I added salt to my 95 gal long after a water change I put extra salt in and where ever the salt landed it turned the Black hair Algae deep red. I found out from a local pet store owner who is a friend/customer that T5 lighting kills BBA. All he has is a box filter in a 20 high some fish and a tank full of plants and no BBA. He has the light on for 10 hours a day with T5 double bulb strip


T5 does NOT kill BBA. Total and absolute lie. He's probably just trying to sell you a fixture. I have a T5 HO set up and as soon as I under dose co2- up comes the BBA.


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## vinman

but Jeff he is not giving any co 2 and he don"t have any BBA. He is a friend and a customer of mine. He buys african cichlids off me . I have help him set up another one of his pet shops. When I buy something he give it to me at his cost not the wholesale list price . I get his teer level discount. We give each other things back and forth. I'm going to help him set up his central system for free. He normally pays me for the day. Since the business is slow I told him I help him get it going for free, this way he can buy some more fish off me. We help each other out.


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## niko

I think that the guy that says that T5 bulbs kill BBA may not be a liar. But he does not have a good answer what kills BBA. So he has found some reason to associate the two. Which may appear as a sales pitch of course.

Example:
75 gallon tank. No CO2. 
60 watts of T8 shop lights light. 
2 small HOB filters (meant for like 20 gal. tank each).
Heavy air bubbling.
About 60 loaches, each 2-3 inches long. 

Dumped about 2 lbs of plants from another tank. Covered with BBA. Let them float. Next morning - Wow! Most BBA has disappeared from the plants. By the end of the day there was no BBA left. None!

Loaches can not be responsible - they hid all day under the decoration. Botia kubotai does not eat algae anyway. Plants were floating.

What killed that BBA? Not good flow, not the lights, not CO2, not Excel, not the loaches. What made it evaporate as if it was never there! In a day??? It never even turned red - it just disappeared. What was that?

We still don't have good answer to things like that. So you see me going to basics and trying to find facts we cannot deny. Filtration is one of them for sure. And there is more for sure.

--Nikolay


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## vinman

niko said:


> I think that the guy that says that T5 bulbs kill BBA may not be a liar. But he does not have a good answer what kills BBA. So he has found some reason to associate the two. Which may appear as a sales pitch of course.
> 
> Example:
> 75 gallon tank. No CO2.
> 60 watts of T8 shop lights light.
> 2 small HOB filters (meant for like 20 gal. tank each).
> Heavy air bubbling.
> About 60 loaches, each 2-3 inches long.
> 
> Dumped about 2 lbs of plants from another tank. Covered with BBA. Let them float. Next morning - Wow! Most BBA has disappeared from the plants. By the end of the day there was no BBA left. None!
> 
> Loaches can not be responsible - they hid all day under the decoration. Botia kubotai does not eat algae anyway. Plants were floating.
> 
> What killed that BBA? Not good flow, not the lights, not CO2, not Excel, not the loaches. What made it evaporate as if it was never there! In a day??? It never even turned red - it just disappeared. What was that?
> 
> We still don't have good answer to things like that. So you see me going to basics and trying to find facts we cannot deny. Filtration is one of them for sure. And there is more for sure.
> 
> --Nikolay


I too have Botia kubotai in my 95 long african cichlid tank they do not eat the BBA but they love the blanched Zucchini. I know for a fact lighting is a factor because I used to use a T12 penplax growlux. I swiched to a double T8 with one tube Trition amnd the other tube a coral life and with in a few months BBA started forming all over the place. I had the tank set up for about 1.5 years no BBA untill I switched lighting. The same thing happened when I switched bulbs in my 95 long.. It went for being a few spots here and there for years to growing all over the place.

Please tell me the make and and model of T 8 you use I want to try it out and see if it works for me.


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## bosmahe1

vinman said:


> I too have Botia kubotai in my 95 long african cichlid tank they do not eat the BBA but they love the blanched Zucchini. I know for a fact lighting is a factor because I used to use a T12 penplax growlux. I swiched to a double T8 with one tube Trition amnd the other tube a coral life and with in a few months BBA started forming all over the place. I had the tank set up for about 1.5 years no BBA untill I switched lighting. The same thing happened when I switched bulbs in my 95 long.. It went for being a few spots here and there for years to growing all over the place.
> 
> Please tell me the make and and model of T 8 you use I want to try it out and see if it works for me.


Going from T12 to T8 would be an increase in light(PAR). That could cause more algae if the nutrients and CO2 or lack there of, stayed the same. If you were to go to T5 HO lighting, that would also increase PAR. I would think the result would be the same. In my tank, I run 2 out of the 4 39 watt T5HO bulbs. If I run all 4 bulbs, BBA becomes a challenge. More light will increase algae population if the CO2 and nutrients aren't increased accordingly.


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## vinman

OK I'm lost you got to break it down in baby terms for me'

PAR., ???? I think I want a 2 or 4 bulb fixture. I got fish in the tank


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## barbarossa4122

vinman said:


> I'm suspecting too little vacuuming, not enough co2, other nutrient imbalances. You hit that on the head.
> 
> How do I make my own Fluorish Excel please. I was hoping there was some type of fish or shrimp that would eat it


You can use Metricide 14. I dose it undiluted about the same dose as Excel. (5ml/55g)


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## niko

So let me set this straight:

The original question is "How do I kill BBA?". We are now discussing what light bulbs and chemicals will kill BBA.

I'm not going to start talking about filtration again. But I hope everybody sees my point - if the basics are not right discussing everything else is pretty funny.

I wonder what light bulbs and chemicals Amano uses to kill BBA.



--Nikolay


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## bosmahe1

vinman said:


> OK I'm lost you got to break it down in baby terms for me'
> 
> PAR., ???? I think I want a 2 or 4 bulb fixture. I got fish in the tank


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetically_active_radiation

If you get a 4 bulb T5HO fixture, I would strongly advise against running 4 bulbs at a time. It is generally considered difficult to keep algae at bay.


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## vinman

Ok I will try a double bulb fixture when I get the money now I like to know what T8 was used in the tank that killed the BBA. I do 60 to 80% water changes once to twice a week.


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## niko

The T8 bulbs that were used over the magical BBA killing aquarium where the cheapest 6500 Kelvin tubes you can find at Home Depot. Two for like $7. General Electric makes them.

http://gardendesert.com/products/?view=product&product_id=2397

I'm sure they are specifically designed to kill BBA.



--Nikolay


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## Jeffww

niko said:


> So let me set this straight:
> 
> The original question is "How do I kill BBA?". We are now discussing what light bulbs and chemicals will kill BBA.
> 
> I'm not going to start talking about filtration again. But I hope everybody sees my point - if the basics are not right discussing everything else is pretty funny.
> 
> I wonder what light bulbs and chemicals Amano uses to kill BBA.
> 
> 
> 
> --Nikolay


Tank conditions:

Fluval 305 (260gph) 
AC PH (120gph)

360 gph on 20 gallons. I had BBA really bad bba on my anubias from another tank with significantly less flow. When I switched tanks the bba didn't go away it just got shorter. It turned in to tiny raised black lumps on the leaves.

The lights are T5HO.


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## vinman

niko said:


> The T8 bulbs that were used over the magical BBA killing aquarium where the cheapest 6500 Kelvin tubes you can find at Home Depot. Two for like $7. General Electric makes them.
> 
> http://gardendesert.com/products/?view=product&product_id=2397
> 
> I'm sure they are specifically designed to kill BBA.
> 
> 
> 
> --Nikolay


Thank you it is a cheap way for me to see if that kills it. I have use those blubs before they are either the sunshine blubl ot the ultra daylight. I usec them with a UVB bulb for my reptiles


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## vinman

Ok I killed the BBA in my african cichlid tank. I dropped the water in 95 long tank to 1/2 way. I sprinkled table salt on the rocks that had BBA on them righ in the rocks I let the tank sit 30 min 1/2 filled. ad let the salt dissolve on the BBA and it started to turn red and in a few it is almost gone all that is left is some light brown patches. It was a 1/2 inch thick. i wonde if you increse that salt content of the water will the BBA die off with out all the need for special lighting or co.2, ect. This might be a way to keep it for coming back


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## niko

Jeff and Vinman,

Glad to hear that sprinkling salt over your BBA worked. Pepper may work too 

What we do to try to kill BBA is very much hoping it will work. What I'm saying about filtration is about getting the basics right and go from there. Will a good filter and good flow kill BBA? I don't know. Because here's my experience with BBA:

Few years ago I did a cruel experiment. And it was me that got killed:

1. Experiment setup:
Took out a few rocks covered with BBA and treated them (each one separately) with different factors. Then returned back to the tank to observe the effects.

2. Results:
None of the BBA died. None. Did not even change color.

3. What did I use to treat? Brace up, it's extreme:

1. 40% table salt solution - dip the rock in it and let sit 5 min.
2. Excel - about 25% by volume! Pure poison. 3 min.
3. RO water - in the past I had killed (instantly!)everything in a tank just by using RO water for a water change. 5 min.
4. Vinegar - straight dip in a cup of vinegar. 30 sec.
5. Boiling water - yes, a 30 second dip in boiling water!

See "2. Results".

Despite my anti-scientific experiment I should have gotten at least some... dying. To this day I have no explanation. After that experiment I "invented" the UV-pen. It's an UV lamp that concentrates the UV light on a small area. To kill BBA - illuminate it at a close distance. I never made this weapon and I don't think it's a good idea to use it anyway - because if the cause for BBA is still there it will come back anyway. A good idea for a new product that cashes in on the very thing I've been fighting for some time now - lack of knowledge.

For me to talk about setting up proper filtration as a way to kill BBA is, once again, just means to get the basics right. After my shocking experiment results I've been more in the dark than most people that try to kill BBA. But I have seen it go away with good tank maintenance.

--Nikolay


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## vinman

ok next time try to do your applications much longer. 30 sec in boiling water is not enough time to get the rock so hot that you kill the algae in the pores of the rock. I have killed it with boiling water if you put the rocks in a bucket and let pour in the boiling water and let it cool on its won it will be cooked. Bleach 3 cups in a 5 gal bucket let stand 24 hours or more . Then take rocks and soak in vinegar to kill the bleach at 1 cup of vinegar per gal of water let soak over night that will kill the bleach I know because I have seen it with my own eyes salt killed it. I let my salt sit on top of the algae for 30 min before I stared to fill up the tank. I just put it in my planted tank and I thought I only have BBA but I see it did not kill the more green Algae. I also have green hair algae. I have a hard bright green algae on the glass that is a pain in the you know what to get off. Here are some pics of my Malawi tank notice all the brown that was 1/2 tuffs of BBA


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## vinman

here is the natural tank I just put salt on it today look at all the red on the Java fern


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## BobAlston

I am also battling BBA in a 55 gallon tank. I used almost all of a bottle of Excel (3x normal dose each day for 3 days straight) and it did nothing to the BBA. On day 3 or 4 it made the water cloudy which lasted for several days. It killed my male adult angel.

I have increased the CO2 and now have something over 30 ppm co2 based on my drop checker. I added 1/4 tsp KNO3 two days ago. The plants are doing well, especially the Myrophylium. Still the BBA hands on. does not appear to be growing but not dieing either.

My next tack will be to use a syringe with long piece of rigid plastic tube to spray H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide) directly on individual BBA clumps. I will turn off the filter and powerheads and leave off for about 15 minutes.

Bob


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## vinman

Bob look at my pic's try table salt


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## BobAlston

Vinman

I read it but I can't in this situation as it is on plants under the water line. I will try this first and if that doesn't work, I will next try removing the plants for a dip.

Hate that **** BBA! 

Bob


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## vinman

BobAlston said:


> Vinman
> 
> I read it but I can't in this situation as it is on plants under the water line. I will try this first and if that doesn't work, I will next try removing the plants for a dip.
> 
> Hate that **** BBA!
> 
> Bob


so are mine


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## niko

Well, I thought we are trying to find a perfect crutch for our problem - namely to learn to kill BBA inside the tank. If you are going to pull everything out and bleach it overnight I sure hope BBA will die. But with more gentle treatments... it does not die every time.

In my case - I did the boiling water thing and expected at least the strands that stick out of the water to die. They didn't. Boiling water was of no consequence at all. Scary.

By the way, let me revive some info from about a year or so ago. As some of you may remember I imported rare aquarium fish for some time. One goby that we brought in actively ate BBA and did not damage the Java Moss that was under it. Look for Styphodon ornatus if you want to buy it. Don't know who sells it but if you find a source - give that fish a try.

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&...=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1259&bih=647

The single goby I put in my big tank appropirated a patch of moss about 7 x 5 inches area. In about 3 days the moss was completely clean. I mean completely. The goby would seldom go anywhere else in that tank. So the rest of the tank was heavy BBA.

--Nikolay


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## BobAlston

I also read recently that a Scat also ate BBA.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f24/black-brush-algae-no-problem-75779.html

vinman
I read from you "I have seen it with my own eyes salt killed it. I let my salt sit on top of the algae for 30 min before I stared to fill up the tank." I interpreted that as the salt was on the BBA but not underwater. I am not able to remove enough water to get the BBA above the water line.

bob


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## vinman

I wonder if that goby would eat my baby cherry shrimp. Remember I have 2 tanks with it. I wondering how much salt in the water would it take to keep it for coming back. I have african cichlids, they can take high levels of salt.


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## Zabman14u

im gonna have to side with niko on this one. if you want to eradicate BBA (or any type of algae) you have to get rid of the cause. lighting is lighting. changing the bulb size (t12 to t8) will not get rid of algae but just changes the amount of output of light in the tank. you have to look at what causes BBA. from my understanding its dirty tank/water. excessively dirty substrate can increase the chances of BBA. also look at your filtration. not only at flow and how your flow is setup (key there), but your filters themselves. a lot of times, dirty filters will increase the chances of getting BBA. rotting plants, fish waste and dirty filters increases ammonia in the tank. that increases the chances of BBA. 

to back this up, i currently have BBA in my tank also. the odd thing is, it is not all over my tank. it is just in one spot. where is that spot? under my HOB filter on top of large chunks of lava rock, mostly on my java ferns. it is also in the middle of the tank, elevation wise so its not too much light or too little light because the top and bottom do not get it. also i have the lava rock leaning against the glass in the corner of the tank where there is stagnate water. yesterday i have eliminated the filter pads and put in lava rock in its place and see if that will make a difference. i am also looking into increasing the flow rate by weening my tank to a high flow canister filter.


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## vinman

I just did a minor overhaul on my tank. I will take some pics


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## vinman

here are some pics


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## HeyPK

I think that black beard algae, like many of the filamentous algae species, lives and grows under conditions very similar to the conditions that aquarium plants live and grow. In terms of venn diagrams, the circle representing the range of acceptable growth conditions for the algae almost completely overlaps the circle for aquarium plants. If there are conditions where the black beard algae completely dies and becomes extinct in the aquarium while the aquarium plants can still stay alive and grow, I would like to know what they are. 

I have never had black beard algae because I have always given new plants the bleach treatment and then put them in a tank that was free of black beard.


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## vinman

HeyPK said:


> I think that black beard algae, like many of the filamentous algae species, lives and grows under conditions very similar to the conditions that aquarium plants live and grow. In terms of venn diagrams, the circle representing the range of acceptable growth conditions for the algae almost completely overlaps the circle for aquarium plants. If there are conditions where the black beard algae completely dies and becomes extinct in the aquarium while the aquarium plants can still stay alive and grow, I would like to know what they are.
> 
> I have never had black beard algae because I have always given new plants the bleach treatment and then put them in a tank that was free of black beard.


I agree with you 100% I'm new to the aquascapes thing but I'm a fish breeder and had had aquiuams since I was 5 and I'm 47 will be 48 in june


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## ValorG

I dont have many bb outbreaks because I always have small amounts in my high tech tank but when it because a bit too noticable i just dose with excel for a weak to kill most of it. It eventually comes back but takes months for it to come back to its original eyesore stage.


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## GregT

This thread helped me with my problem, and it was a serious problem. The key factors to reduce this plague for me were:

1. Stick with the dosing, in my case, EI method. Its temping to stop feeding the algae but have faith and its needed for the other strategies.
2. Remove it from plants. At the worst time, I was removing about 50% of the plants mass every week. They would grow back and I would hack it down again. Once plants are settled into a tank, they can really take a beating.
3. CO2 maxed out, around 30ppm. 
4. Lots of stem plants and stuff that grows fast. The key here is overgrow the algae and cover every surface with plants.
5. Bleached the hardware (hoses, heaters, etc) as they became covered. 10% bleach bath for an hour was more than enough. The algae should just wipe off easily. Rinse well, bleach like to linger.
6. All of the above kept it stable but really threw me over the edge was removing all the hardscaping (rocks, wood) which were just breeding grounds for it and really hard to scrape. Basically this left just the glass and gravel to grow on. Glass is an easy kill. Gravel, while waiting for my ground cover, I would either scoop it out or overturn the gravel burring it.

I have lots of blue spectrum in my lighting, and at one point I was going to switch out to more day-light and reds. I wish I tried that to see if it was a factor. However, I'm sure I'll meet this dreaded algae again.

Hope this thread helps.

Greg


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