# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Cluster/Filamentous Algae - HELP



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

I'm hoping to get some advice on a problem that has creeped up on me in the past few months with algae that is like green cotton. It mostly grows on the flourite substrate. It also grows on bogwood and sometimes around the base of plants - this is easily removed by pulling on it.I have a 75gal. tank using a 40W GroLux and GroLux WS and either a chroma 50 or a Philips Ultra daylite 6500K 40W fluorescents. My phosphate level is <0.1 as I am using phosguard and my nitrates are down from ~10 to ~5ppm by using nitrasorb. I run an 8 watt UV sterilizer. I use either Leaf Zone or Flourish fertilizers and Seachem Potassium after my weekly 10gal. water change.I do add ElectroRight solution to raise the GH up from ~7ppm to 4dGH and was using sodium bicarb to raise the KH from 1 to 2 dKH. I now use RO Vital.The pH is kept at ~ 6.6 +/-.
I do not use carbon or anything else that has phosphates or nitrates. I have Otos, an SAE, two False SAEs, and just got an Ancistrus Pleco sp? (which is making my sword plant leafs look like Madagasgar Lace).
I have not seen any of these 'algae eaters' eat the stuff. I have seen my female cherry barbs, Silver Angelfish and possibly the Malaysian Trumpet snails nibble on the stuff. My lights are on as follows: the 6500K on at 10:30am to 9:00pm and the two GroLuxs from 11:30am to 8:00pm.
This algae does not seem to be affected by much. Weekly I rake up the clumps it forms in the gravel and put it in the oven for a bit at 490F. I then rinse it well and place it back in the tank.
I am now thinking of getting an Ameca Splendens (Butterfly Goodeid). How do I capture the Pleco?

Any thoughts???It just keeps coming. I am keeping up with it and at times I make a little head way. HELP


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

I'm hoping to get some advice on a problem that has creeped up on me in the past few months with algae that is like green cotton. It mostly grows on the flourite substrate. It also grows on bogwood and sometimes around the base of plants - this is easily removed by pulling on it.I have a 75gal. tank using a 40W GroLux and GroLux WS and either a chroma 50 or a Philips Ultra daylite 6500K 40W fluorescents. My phosphate level is <0.1 as I am using phosguard and my nitrates are down from ~10 to ~5ppm by using nitrasorb. I run an 8 watt UV sterilizer. I use either Leaf Zone or Flourish fertilizers and Seachem Potassium after my weekly 10gal. water change.I do add ElectroRight solution to raise the GH up from ~7ppm to 4dGH and was using sodium bicarb to raise the KH from 1 to 2 dKH. I now use RO Vital.The pH is kept at ~ 6.6 +/-.
I do not use carbon or anything else that has phosphates or nitrates. I have Otos, an SAE, two False SAEs, and just got an Ancistrus Pleco sp? (which is making my sword plant leafs look like Madagasgar Lace).
I have not seen any of these 'algae eaters' eat the stuff. I have seen my female cherry barbs, Silver Angelfish and possibly the Malaysian Trumpet snails nibble on the stuff. My lights are on as follows: the 6500K on at 10:30am to 9:00pm and the two GroLuxs from 11:30am to 8:00pm.
This algae does not seem to be affected by much. Weekly I rake up the clumps it forms in the gravel and put it in the oven for a bit at 490F. I then rinse it well and place it back in the tank.
I am now thinking of getting an Ameca Splendens (Butterfly Goodeid). How do I capture the Pleco?

Any thoughts???It just keeps coming. I am keeping up with it and at times I make a little head way. HELP


----------



## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

First, why are you using the phosguard and nitrasorb? Both phosphorus and nitrogen are essential for plant growth. What happens if you don't use them?

How is the pH maintained at 6.6+/-? Your pH and KH indicate a CO2 concentration of about 17 ppm.

Your lighting (120 watts on a 75 gallon tank) is not very bright. I have a 38 gallon tank with 60 watts of light, which produces about the same watts per gallon ratio. I find it to be algae-prone. 

What are you growing in the tank? The best defense against algae is to promote vigorous growth in a dense plant population. My guess is that you are not getting very vigorous plant growth. Vigorous growth is difficult to get with 1.6 watts/gallon of light, but it is possible.

I'm not sure where you want to go with this tank. One of your better options might be to add more plants. The problem is to add plants that will grow well in the conditions you provide. Java fern, various Cryptocoryne, dwarf sagittaria and Anubias barteri nana are good choices. Some Echinodorus will do well as long as they are not shaded.

It is very easy to add too much plant fertilizer to a tank that isn't getting great growth. The chances are pretty good that you don't need to add any fertilizer on a regular basis. This is especially true if the nitrate and phosphate levels increase when you remove the nitrazorb and phosguard. If that is true, then fish waste is providing more nutrients than your plants need.

You can increase water changes as an alternative to decreasing fertilizer.

Flourite is a good substrate for planting, but I don't find it to be a very fertile substrate. It might provide enough trace metals to satisfy the needs of a slow-growth tank.

You might also see if it's time to replace your lamps. Most fluorescent lamps lose a lot of their initial output after a year of use.

You might be able to trap the Ancistrus by putting a piece of blanched zucchini into a jar lying on the bottom of the tank. Put a net over the jar after the pleco goes in after the squash. Take the jar and fish out of the tank and transfer to something where he can be safely kept.

I used that method to catch two clown plecos in a planted 55 gallon tank. Now I have the same problem in my 150 gallon tank and need to do something about it.


Roger Miller


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

I've been using the phosguard for sometime now. The algae goes crazy if I dont use it and recently began using the nitrazorb. I'm hoping to starve off the the algae. I sometimes add seachem acid buffer for planted tanks, but this is where the water likes to be. I also have a crude CO2 system that I hope to upgrade soon. I also just ordered two JBJ 6500K PC bulbs from AB and will use these in my AllGlass fixture in place of the 9325K bulbs and I will prbably stick with the Twin fluorecsent fixture with the GroLux bulbs. My tank measures 75 gals but based on the outside dimensions. I have about 60 gals. of open water. I also prune plants weekly. (I posted a pic of it in the tank/photo section). I also have approx 50 fish from Pygmy cories to a large Anglefish but mostly tetras.

So it sounds like you recommend more lighting which I am working on and maybe more CO2? I replace all of my fluorescent tubes every six months. I read the material in ABs library.


----------



## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Newt:
> I've been using the phosguard for sometime now. The algae goes crazy if I dont use it and recently began using the nitrazorb. I'm hoping to starve off the the algae.


You don't have a fertile substrate, so you may starve off your plants before you starve the algae.

You shouldn't need to use either the phosguard or the nitrazorb in a planted tank. But my standards you do have a fairly heavy fish load, and that may make some difference.



> quote:
> 
> I sometimes add seachem acid buffer for planted tanks, but this is where the water likes to be. I also have a crude CO2 system that I hope to upgrade soon.


It's hard for me to guess just what it is that puts your pH so low. If 17 ppm CO2 is accurate and that is "where the water likes to be" then it's because of high fish load and low CO2 consumption. It might also be from the Seachem buffer or from the CO2 system if or when you use it.



> quote:
> 
> I also just ordered two JBJ 6500K PC bulbs from AB and will use these in my AllGlass fixture in place of the 9325K bulbs and I will prbably stick with the Twin fluorecsent fixture with the GroLux bulbs. My tank measures 75 gals but based on the outside dimensions. I have about 60 gals. of open water. I also prune plants weekly. (I posted a pic of it in the tank/photo section). I also have approx 50 fish from Pygmy cories to a large Anglefish but mostly tetras.


I don't know what these lighting changes mean to your tank. Are the JBJ lamps 65 watt lamps? Where do the 9325K tubes come into play? What happens to the 40 watt daylight tube? I'm so confused!



> quote:
> 
> So it sounds like you recommend more lighting which I am working on and maybe more CO2? I replace all of my fluorescent tubes every six months. I read the material in ABs library.


No, I recommended that you should add more plants that grow well at low light levels. Increasing the light on your tank will change the nature of your tank and the level of effort that your tank will require. If that is what you want to do then I know you can make it work, but you need to be ready to make some other changes as well.

Roger Miller


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

I'll try to clarify my lighting. I am currently using a twin tube fluorescent fixtue with a 40 watt GroLux and a 40 watt GroLux WS. I am also using a single fluorescent fixture with a 40 watt 6500K ultra daylight tube. I have but not currently using an AllGlass PC fixture with (2) 55 watt 9325K bulbs. I dont like the 9325K so I am purchasing (2) JBJ 6500K bulbs that I will use along with the twin tube fixture.

I am new at this. I thought that more light would help the plants consume more nutrients.

I think my plants grow quite rapidly as I need to prune and yank weekly. I also think they are quite healthy.


The KH after a water change is ~2 dKH (remember, I add either sodium bicarb or ROVitaL)and by the end of the week it is ~1dKH giving me about 8ppm CO2. Why wouldnt my soft water be a bit on the acidic side.

How different is doing more water changes from using phosguard and nitrazorb? I read somewhere that the parmeters to look for when wanting to control algae is <0.25ppm PO4 and <5ppm NO3.

Yes, I agree, I have a substantial fish population.

Maybe I should give up.


----------



## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Newt:
> I'll try to clarify my lighting. I am currently using a twin tube fluorescent fixtue with a 40 watt GroLux and a 40 watt GroLux WS. I am also using a single fluorescent fixture with a 40 watt 6500K ultra daylight tube. I have but not currently using an AllGlass PC fixture with (2) 55 watt 9325K bulbs. I dont like the 9325K so I am purchasing (2) JBJ 6500K bulbs that I will use along with the twin tube fixture.


 I see. You will be going from 120 watts of lighting to 190 watts of lighting. That's a big step. Especially if the AllGlass fixture includes a good reflector. Are you sure that your ballasts for the 2x55 watt fixture will run the 65 watt lamps?



> quote:
> 
> I am new at this. I thought that more light would help the plants consume more nutrients.


It will. There is probably nothing you can do to a planted tank that will force more changes than increasing the light. If that's what you want to do then you're on the right track.



> quote:
> 
> I think my plants grow quite rapidly as I need to prune and yank weekly. I also think they are quite healthy.


That can change if you don't increase the nutrient supply to stay in step with the lighting.



> quote:
> 
> The KH after a water change is ~2 dKH (remember, I add either sodium bicarb or ROVitaL)and by the end of the week it is ~1dKH giving me about 8ppm CO2. Why wouldnt my soft water be a bit on the acidic side.


You didn't mention the drop to 1 dKH. The conditions you sited originally indicated that you had 17 ppm of CO2. That is more than people usually get without adding CO2, and you also didn't originally say much about adding CO2. 8 ppm is also a little high, but it may be in line with your heavy fish load.



> quote:
> 
> How different is doing more water changes from using phosguard and nitrazorb? I read somewhere that the parmeters to look for when wanting to control algae is <0.25ppm PO4 and <5ppm NO3.


I can't imagine there is much basis for those values. Ideally phosguard and nitrazorb will remove the phosphorus and nitrogen down to very low concentrations. Water changes will simply keep the concentrations from building too high. If you keep <5 ppm NO3 in a tank without a fertile substrate then you will drive your plants into nitrogen deficiency. With the new light you will do it faster. Running a tank low on nitrate appears to be an invitation to blue green algae.

Generally speaking, algae are well-adapted for growing in water with a low nutrient content. Most plants will grow well under the same conditions only if they have a nutrient source in the substrate. Flourite is not a fertile substrate. A low-nutrient water column will just favor algae. The more light you have, the more likely you are to run into problems.



> quote:
> 
> Maybe I should give up.


Why? It doesn't sound like you have any serious problems and your tank looks good.

Roger Miller


----------



## Gagnon Brothers (Mar 3, 2004)

Hi
I had filamentous algae for many years in my 66gal and I found that excessive iron in the water was the problem. Though many aquarists keep 0.1ppm iron in there tank, I think it is too much and keep it around 0.01ppm(estimate). I did not seen filamentous in my tank for almost 2 years now.


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

I can not detect iron in the water column and I use to different test kits. But we know or are told that Flourite is rich in iron and that is where this stuff is growing - in the substate. When I get my new lamps I wll remove the nitrasorb and phosguard and see what happens. I really dont have much more room to put plants (uummm - my wife likes the open spaces to see thre fish swim). Thanks for the help. I will let you know what happens with the brighter light. And my Bday is soon and maybe I can get the improvements I need for my CO2 system.


----------



## Newt (Apr 1, 2004)

On the JBJ PC bulbs. I have read that it is the ballast that drives the bulb. I expect to get only 55 watts from each buld, not 65. However, I'm hoping the lighting will be better than the 9325K. To test is to know.


----------



## mrmag (Jan 12, 2005)

> quote:Originally posted by Newt:
> I can not detect iron in the water column and I use to different test kits. But we know or are told that Flourite is rich in iron and that is where this stuff is growing - in the substate.


Why don't you just cover the flourite with plain aquarium gravel?

mike


----------

