# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Sand as a substrate?



## bozistheboss (Aug 4, 2005)

Hello! My name is Ben and I'm new to the community. I came across this forum while researching planted tanks.

I'm making my first serious attempt (after LOTS of experimentation) at a heavily planted tank (which is undetermined in size, probably either a 20 or 30 gallon tank) and I was wondering about whether or not to use sand as a substrate. The sand I plan on using is play sand, the stuff you put in sandboxes, which will cover a Fluorite base (or, if I can find it, a 100% Onyx sand substrate). Half the websites I've seen have said sand is great for planted tanks, the other half said it's horrible.

Anyone have any opinions?

Any other hints or tips would also be greatly appreciated.









I'll list a few of the plants I currently have as well, which will be transplanted into the planted tank once it is set up:

1 large amazon sword (the standard Echinodorus major, VERY healthy)

2 aponogetons (from a bag of bulbs, these are dark green in color - Aponogeton ulvaceus, I assume, very healthy)

1 Echinodorus grandiflorus (I forgot the common name, small sword with broad, light green leaves, relatively healthy but slow growing at the moment)

1 Bunch of brown Cryptocoryne Wendtii (only healthy stems and roots remain, no leaves, not sure what's wrong with it since it was sending out runners before it permanently melted, but I'm going to replant it soon in a tank that should make it much happier)

1 Bunch of green Cryptocoryne Wendtii (which is far healthier than its brown counterpart)

1 Echinodorus subalatus (Melon Sword? Not doing too well)

Several huge stems of Hygrophila difformis (Water Wisteria, extremely healthy)

Several small dwarf sagitarius (Sagittaria subulata, not doing very well either)

2 Anubias barteri v. nana (was originally one plant, but it grew in different directions, so I split the rhizome; healthy, of course, but how could one of these not be?)

Several enormous lilies that came in the same package of bulbs as my aponogetons. I've identified them as Nymphaea maculata or Tiger Lotuses. The bulb grew into one enormous lily with beautiful red leaves which eventually began sending up floating leaves before sending out several runners. I was also treated to a beautiful purple bloom! So now I have a collection of these guys. Once I have 2 of the smaller ones replanted, I'm going to try to keep them trim so that they continue to grow submersed leaves. If this doesn't work, I'll just give them to my uncle who has a pond.


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## brad (Jul 10, 2005)

I don`t thinksand is bad for plants. It just doesn`t help. It has no cec, no nutrients, and it tends to compact. If you`re using it to cover Fluorite, chances are the Fluorite will eventually end up on top of the sand. You might as well mix them together right off the bat.

If you like the looks of the sand, use it. A few MTS may help keep the sand from compacting but then again, they don`t burrow very deep in the substrate anyway so maybe not.


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## Hispid (Feb 3, 2005)

Personally I love sand although I use "medium river sand" it's fairly dirty and coarse. It maxs out at about 1mm grain size. I like it because it is a good substrate for carpeting plants and other rhizomatic and stoloniferous plants to spread through and is easy to plant teeny weeny plants in. However if you can afford it the most consistant advice I've seen is to go all flourite with some peat and old tank gunk (mulm) as a base. In any case you will probably find that the play sand will fall through the coarser grained underlayer over time and the flourite will rise to the top. The layer won't invert obviously but you won't have a pure sand surface and the base will probably be compacted sand not doing much good to anyone. People have a tendancy to make the most extraordinary substrate cocktails but all you really want is a little organic matter, some mulm to get things started and a relatively fine (2-3mm or less) substrate with good CEC such as flourite or other aquatic plant specific (and expensive) packaged substrates.


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## bozistheboss (Aug 4, 2005)

Thanks for your advice guys. I really appreciate the tips. Hopefully when I get things all set up, I'll be able to take some pictures.









EDIT: By the way, I've heard Malaysian Trumpet Snails are great for aquariums (as Charby also suggested) but I've never seen them before. Does anyone know where I can get some?


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## imported_Left C (Dec 5, 2003)

Most LFS probably have the MTS. They are usually considered as a pest and are disposed of. Just look closely around and you will find them. They will usually give them away. I've even seen them at Pet Smart.
Take a look at pool sand. It's not as fine as play sand and will not pack down like play sand will. I saw some yestarday for $7.95 for 50#'s.


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## Hispid (Feb 3, 2005)

Just a small warning MTS are a commitment. Once you have them it is nigh impossible to get rid of them. They're OK and all just know that you'll pretty much have 'em for life.


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## Jane of Upton (Jul 28, 2005)

I sent you a direct email offering MTS (just reimb postage). 

Pond snails are common in Local Fish Store, but the MTS less so.

I've found that the trick to "getting" the MTS is to turn the aquarium lights off, and leave one light on in the room. Then wait. They all make a nightly parade up out of the substrate. True, just one can reproduce (that's parthenogenesis, right? Its been decades since the SATs) But I've found they're suckers for a half-cooked piece of zuchinni weighted with a plant weight. They also glom into a ball around a hermit crab food pellet (put in for the cherry shirmp). Downright frenzy.... well, for snails.


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## Jane of Upton (Jul 28, 2005)

Oh, and are you going to use any fertilizer in with the flourite?

Fine sand is a pretty tight "cap" over the flourite. Crypts and swords do best with a "rich" substrate, getting nutrients via roots rather than the water column.


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## brad (Jul 10, 2005)

Both the substrate and the water colomn fertilization will grow great plants, but if watch the water colomn, there`s no need to worry about the substrate. Swords and crypts don`t ¨prefer¨ to feed from their roots.


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## bozistheboss (Aug 4, 2005)

Again, thanks for your responses.

Yeah, I have a collection of various SeaChem liquid fertilizers (iron, carbon, and trace, I think) as well as CO2 injection. I also bought the SeaChem Onyx sand as a substrate with some old Flourite mixed in and Flourish tabs placed throughout. I hope that's not overkill.


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