# Idea thread- Plants for a low-tech Dry Start method



## redchigh (Jul 10, 2010)

I want to start a Dry Start in a 10 gallon I have...

I was thinking of using dwarf hairgrass, crypt Wendtii, E. Blehirae Compacta, E. Vesuvius, Bacopa Monnerei, Lysimachia nummularia 'golden' (If it won't look identical to the Bacopa)...

Anyone else have some reccomendations?
I was thinking of trying to increase the humidity slowly when I fill it to 100%, and then adding water super slow.. (.5 inch a week or so)

Think that would help? Will I still need to dose excel at the beginning?

For other details-
I'll be using 20W CFL 6500k lighting
Soil or MS substrate, with black sand. (large sand, about 1mm diameter)


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

The E. Vesuvius is not nearly as great emersed. You might want to add that one after water. What is the point? Are you just wanting to see the plants in emerged form.? You will have to loose emersed leaves as the plants convert over. It's not pretty with some plants. You might have a crpyt melt. Just wondering what your goals are.


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## redchigh (Jul 10, 2010)

I just want the plants to have a really good root system, and have a nice foreground plant.

I tried dwarf baby tears before, and my shrimp kept uprooting it, (ghost shrimp are quite strong) and my endlers uprooted my hairgrass... 

I also tend to have trouble with soil going anaerobic, so I figured extensive root systems might prevent that..


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

I did a dry start with my 55g tank and had mixed success and as TexGal pointed out the transition to submersed growth can have mixed results. I was fun doing it though. 

My Crypts all melted. The hairgrass just stopped growing and I still have scattered blades here and there. The HC had formed a huge lush carpet during the dry start eventually all melted and floated to the top and died. Unless you are going to back it up with CO2 after the great flood the HC will be suffocated by other plants using up what CO2 is there. The Marselia (dwarf four leaf clover) did terrible during the dry start but after flooding took off and replaced the HC carpet. It is what i recommend if you want a carpet in a El Natural tank. Bacopa Monnerei did great. I threw in a few leafless chunks I had trimmed from another tank just to see what happened. From the stems laying on there sides sprouted a new stem at every node. That plant probably had the easiest transition after flooding.

Another thing I noticed during the dry start it gas buildup. under where the HC carpet had formed huge gas pockets had formed. They got to the point where the HC patches became hills. Once I poked it to release the gas it briefly turned into a putrid sludge volcano. It was quite entertaining.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Most use the dry start method with HC or UG. They do this because it seems to grow faster with unlimited CO2. They also usually only have one type of plant in the tank iwagumi style. They begin flooding slowly maybe a week or two and the plant begins putting out new submerged leaves. To try a combo tank emersed I think will have mixed results and may not achieve what you want. Good root systems can be achieved with good substrate. If you aren't using critters things will not be uprooted anyway so you should be fine.


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## redchigh (Jul 10, 2010)

I was going to dose excel when I first flood the tank...

Would that help?

Another idea.. What if I filled it (1 to a half inch a week) with carbonated water?
Should have plenty of CO2...


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## demonr6 (Feb 24, 2011)

I am not a fan of the hair grass, have you considered dwarf baby tears? My grass failed miserably where the tears went absolutely crazy. I have seen people with good success with that plant in your situation.


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## redchigh (Jul 10, 2010)

I might try both, that way I'll definately have one good foreground plant.

I've seen hairgrass grow well in low-med light setups... Thats why I was leaning towards it.


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

I haven't heard good things about hairgrass as a good low light plant. You should look into chain swords of different types maybe.

Don't add carbonated water. It gasses out within an hour and won't supply anything to the plants. It may also have other preservatives in it. I don't think adding water slower will help much. Once it is under water it is blocked off from the CO2 in the air. Excell may help if you keep up with it.


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## redchigh (Jul 10, 2010)

I've heard hairgrass suffers in low light, but at the same time I have a friend with less than one watt per gallon of t8s on a 65 gallon, and dosing only flourish comprehensive with play sand substrate, and her dwarf hairgrass grew like mad and yet stayed short.

I might try HC and hairgrass to see which works for me... and just pull the other one out.


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## jsuereth (Apr 16, 2011)

I use dhg in my 10g low tech. It took quite some time, about a year even, but it started taking over and outcompeting the marsilea spp. i have in there too. By no means will it carpet quickly, but ive seen it grow right under a large rock and start carpeting the other side of it. I think most people dont like dhg because of the huge trimming mess you have and its really slow growth in low tech.


Remember, ymmv. Every tank is slightly different. Also, dhg loves the excell.


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## redchigh (Jul 10, 2010)

I've tried soil several ways... Potting soil, garden topsoil, sand cap, gravel cap..

Never more than an inch of soil, and usually closer to a half... Then at least 1 inch of gravel on top.

Now, half my tanks are anaerobic, and I'm going to have to redo them. I heard roots will prevent anaerobic spots, so thats why I was thinking dsm.

I'm also going to try mixing the soil into some gravel before adding gravel on top, and see if that helps.


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## Jark (Feb 6, 2010)

What plants are you using in your current tanks? Small plants like hairgrass and HC don't have the most expansive root systems and I wouldn't expect them to help much with the aerobic problems. When I grew HC dry start it only went a few cm deep. I could still easily pull up the carpet without pulling up the actual soil. Heavy rooting plants like swords are good at fighting aerobic patches. Try pulling one of those out! Do you have any picture of your tanks that are having problems?


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## redchigh (Jul 10, 2010)

Well, I don't really expect the foreground plants to prevent anaerobic spots..
Was more trying to kill two birds with one stone.

I normally plant swords and crypts to try to keep the soil aerobic.. They just haven't been cutting it lately.

For specifically, I used:Crypt Moehlmannii, Crypt Wendtii, Echinodorus Compacta, and a few small Echinodorus Klienar Prinz. Besides those, I have stem plants and dwarf sag.


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## hornedtoad1 (Jun 24, 2011)

this is all very discouraging. i'm fairly new to npt's, and dry started a 5-gal a couple of weeks ago with a lot of hc, some hem. micranthemem in a corner, half a dozen bacopa monnieri at one end, java moss on a rock, and 3-4 small crypts in front of the rock. they're all doing pretty well. i'd like to add some amazon frogbit when it gets submerged, and stock it with a dozen rcs and maybe a betta. the s/s is local sand on top of mg org potting mix, with a layer of sifted yard dirt on the bottom.
shrimp digging up the sand?
hc dying for lack of co2?
anaerobic spots under the hc?
anybody have any thoughts on my chances of success with this thing?


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## hornedtoad1 (Jun 24, 2011)

i've been thinking about this today, and it makes sense to have only slow-growing plants in the dry start tank, so they don't take all the co2 away from the hc. add some frogbits after immersion, they would take care of the toxins. they're fast-growing, but they wouldn't compete with the hc for the co2 because they get it from the air. a eureka moment!:biggrin:
there are some bacopa in there that probably should come out.


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