# Staghorn or hair algae?



## pzuzu (Mar 3, 2006)

Hello...

I know the picture is fuzzy, but perhaps someone can make it out. The algae is grayish to black in color and it is growing on several other of my plants. It starts off first as brown gunk on the leaves, which the ottos usually take care of. But then these little stems start shooting out and branching. I've seen pics of staghorn and it kinda resembles it, but not completely. So I'm really not sure. Also, if someone knows what it is, please advice on proper remedy for it. I've been trying to do things very carefully but I guess not careful enough. Tank specs are as follow:

PH - 6.6
KH - 5
GH - 6
CO2 - 35-40ppm
Nitrates - 20ppm
PO4 - 1-2ppm
55g
260w (but I'm fairly sure not all of it is going into the tank...pc light fixture, not canopy, the bulbs are close together with a suspicious looking reflector)
10 hours of light a day

My dosing routine is

sundays -
50%WC
1tsp Equilibrium
1tsp baking soda
1/2 tsp Grants stump remover
3mL fleets (I think this might sound like a lot, but my PO4 levels are always sinking to the 0.5 range within a day otherwise)
1/2 tsp of pottasium sulfate

M, W, F -
15mL Flourish
7.5mL Flourish Iron
1tsp Epsom Salt (M & F only)
1/4 tsp of Equilibrium (W only)

T & Th -
1/2tsp Grants
3mL Fleets
1/2 tsp of pottasium sulfate (Th only)

Sat - nothing

Well...I think that's everything. Please help if you can!!! I'm afraid this stuff is gonna take over very quickly and ottos, SAE, snails, shrimps, plecos not doing anything to help this...The only ones I see eating anything helpful are the ottos. I don't know about these SAE...they don't seem to do anything besides look cute all the time and swimming in formation. Even though I see them eating non-stop too from leaves, glass, wood, etc. I guess maybe they're just keeping whatever other kinds of algae there are in my tank at bay so well, I don't even notice.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

Can't really see it in the picture, but from the color (grey), it might be staghorn. Hair algae is usually a brighter green, whereas staghorn is a bit more grey-green. If it is staghorn, it should have a broader base with branches that taper. Hair algae has a unifrom thickness


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## pzuzu (Mar 3, 2006)

PLEASE HELP! Algae is growing very fast. I just took off the legs from the light and sat the fixture on top of the glass. The room that I keep the tank in got considerably darker, so I'm assuming that I now actually have a lot of the light going into the tank. I am still continuing my dosing of ferts.

There's one branch of algae that is suddenly almost two inches long. Just one...but I can see that it is starting to thicken up in other places.

I went out and bought 3 bunches of rotala indica to add more plant mass, hoping to outcompete the algae. 

Is there a nutrient I'm overdosing, or underdosing? I pulled some water from the tank and let it sit for four hours and retested the PH to make sure I really do have that much CO2 in the tank. The PH went up by .3 so I'm fairly sure it's at where I stated on the original post.

I'm thinking it could be the iron. I use flourite, which is exposed in some areas, other areas is covered by eco-complete. I also dose 7.5mL of Flourish Iron, plus 15mL of flourish...and even the Equilibrium has amounts of Fe. Is this too much Fe? I've read in another forum that dosing sufficient Flourish is enough and eliminates the need for Flourish Iron. Is this true?

Again, someone please please please help!
Thank you!
Fernando


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

pzuzu,

It is vey difficult, if not impossible for me to tell what type of algae is in your tank from the pic.

That said, the amount of ferts you are adding may be too. I would swap your micro and macro dosing days, dose macros 3x a week and micros 3x a week. I add 1/2 tsp of KNO3 to my 55g on MWF and I only have 200w of ODNO flourescents. My tank is usually well stocked with plants though.

Algae usually comes from a deficiency, not an overabundance (within reason of course). Try not to rely on your test kits so much, but rely on the amount you are dosing. Test kits are good for a "ballpark" figure but the plant and algae don't lie.

You may also want to try slowly raising your CO2 levels a bit more. *ONLY* do this when you will be around to watch the fish. If they show signs of stress, such as gasping at the surface, you have reached your CO2 limit for the tank, so turn it down a little bit.

Again, deficiencies (CO2 or ferts) usually lead to an algae outbreak, not overdosing.


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## pzuzu (Mar 3, 2006)

Matt:

Thanks for the input. Now that the algae has gotten a little bigger, I was able to take a really good look at it and I guess it is staghorn...it looks just like other pictures I have found online and on this forum. Nasty looking stuff.

Anyway, I'm not understanding why you are suggesting I swap my dosing days, when inevitably it'll pretty much be the same thing. Usually the only day I can do my 50% WC is on Sundays, so I add macros then and on T and Th. Then I add my micros on MWF. So I am dosing macros 3x a week and micros 3x a week as well.

Now...I was trying to use the test kits this week and kinda go by those results. I have two different brands for just about all the important tests. Except I don't have a Ca or Fe test kit. So I did a test today before lights on to check my NO3, it was at 20ppm. I decided that perhaps I shouldn't add my NO3 since I'm at a pretty good level...I hope. Is this bad? Should I just go ahead and add the 1/2 tsp of grants (KNO3) even though the test kits say I'm at good levels? Now, last week, by today, the NO3 was much lower than that... is there something that is limiting the NO3 consumption in my tank? If so, what could it be? Even the PO4, today it was at 3ppm...and I had dosed it on Sunday...today I was supposed to dose again, but it was at 3ppm still...last week by today, my PO4 was at 0.2ppm... why are my plants suddenly not eating? Could this be the root to my algae problem?

Questions questions! Sorry about that. I'm thinking perhaps I will just get rid of the test kits...trash them so I won't even be tempted to run tests. But it's been my latest addiction. I think cuz I'm still a newbie... So yeah... ignore them? Dose my routine as my opening post in this thread and not change a thing even though the tests are reading good levels?

I don't know...I guess if overfertilizing isn't the cause of algae, it makes sense.

Also, you might have noticed I have not been dosing Ca...I have been unable to obtain any. I'm planning on it in a week or two from Greg Watson, unless someone knows of something else I could get from a local store (common store, as I don't have any of those neat chemical stores around me I hear people mention from time to time). I do dose Equilibrium and Flourish, which both have Ca in it, but not nearly the amounts I have read are necessary. Could this be contributing factor to my algae? I was kinda hoping Ca was one of those relatively unimportant nutrients.

Anyway...thanks for the help! 
Fernando

PS - will there ever be a day when I'm actually replying to people's questions as opposed to constantly asking them? hmm...


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

pzuzu said:


> Matt:
> Anyway, I'm not understanding why you are suggesting I swap my dosing days, when inevitably it'll pretty much be the same thing. Usually the only day I can do my 50% WC is on Sundays, so I add macros then and on T and Th. Then I add my micros on MWF. So I am dosing macros 3x a week and micros 3x a week as well.


Well, in your original post you said you were only dosing macros on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I figured 3 days a week would be better than two. I missed your comments about your Sunday dosing.



pzuzu said:


> Now...I was trying to use the test kits this week and kinda go by those results. I have two different brands for just about all the important tests. Except I don't have a Ca or Fe test kit. So I did a test today before lights on to check my NO3, it was at 20ppm. I decided that perhaps I shouldn't add my NO3 since I'm at a pretty good level...I hope. Is this bad? Should I just go ahead and add the 1/2 tsp of grants (KNO3) even though the test kits say I'm at good levels? Now, last week, by today, the NO3 was much lower than that... is there something that is limiting the NO3 consumption in my tank? If so, what could it be? Even the PO4, today it was at 3ppm...and I had dosed it on Sunday...today I was supposed to dose again, but it was at 3ppm still...last week by today, my PO4 was at 0.2ppm... why are my plants suddenly not eating? Could this be the root to my algae problem?
> 
> Questions questions! Sorry about that. I'm thinking perhaps I will just get rid of the test kits...trash them so I won't even be tempted to run tests. But it's been my latest addiction. I think cuz I'm still a newbie... So yeah... ignore them? Dose my routine as my opening post in this thread and not change a thing even though the tests are reading good levels?


I wouldn't rely on the kits very much unless you have calibrated them. Meaning, you have made a few known solutions (1ppm, 5ppm and 10ppm for example) and verified the results. Calibrated test kits are a good way to figure out problems but usually by the time we see algae it is probable that the water parameters have changed.



pzuzu said:


> I don't know...I guess if overfertilizing isn't the cause of algae, it makes sense.


Don't worry about overfertilizing as long as you are doing at least 50% water changes.



pzuzu said:


> Also, you might have noticed I have not been dosing Ca...I have been unable to obtain any. I'm planning on it in a week or two from Greg Watson, unless someone knows of something else I could get from a local store (common store, as I don't have any of those neat chemical stores around me I hear people mention from time to time). I do dose Equilibrium and Flourish, which both have Ca in it, but not nearly the amounts I have read are necessary. Could this be contributing factor to my algae? I was kinda hoping Ca was one of those relatively unimportant nutrients.


Since you are adding Equilibrium, you more than likely are fine with your Ca and Mg. To sort out the algae problem, look into CO2 first, then look at your NO3 levels, then PO4, then micros. Adjust the Co2 upwards slowly when you will be around to watch the fish. I have had my CO2 levels over 200ppm (Calibvrated pH meter and LaMotte Alkalinity kit). I don't rely on my test kits results for Co2 much anymore. The fish, plants and algae are the best kits we have 



pzuzu said:


> PS - will there ever be a day when I'm actually replying to people's questions as opposed to constantly asking them? hmm...


Sure there will be. A couple of years ago I was new at this


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## pzuzu (Mar 3, 2006)

Mat...thanks for the help. I won't continue to depend on the test kits. I might test every now and again, but I won't use the results to prevent me from fertilizing. If I overfertilize then the WC will take care of it. I'll trust that.

I do hope that the equilibrium takes care of the Ca and Mg...even though I still do add a little extra Mg through epsom salt. I have used a useful little calculator, I'm sure you know if it, to figure out the ppm values of Equilibrium and I add the difference of the suggested dosage. I don't do the same with Ca because I have none. If I did I probably would. I was having some problems with my ammania and I posted it on the general plants discussion forum and someone suggested I look at my Ca levels. But today my tank was looking exceptionally well, except for the bits of staghorn. I was having a little fuzzy water problems that I was crossing my fingers would not be green water...but today the water was clear. It's beyond me how that happened. I went ahead and added the macros last night that I wasn't going to add simply because of the test results. I don't know if that had anything to do with it...but it let me know I must be doing something relatively right. I still don't know about the staghorn though...today my co2 went up to 60ppm and the fish seemed alright. I've taken it to 90ppm before and my fish were definately not alright. I could tell they were extremely stressed out. But perhaps as plant mass gets bigger, the higher I should try to take my co2? I'll keep an eye on things and wait out the staghorn. Maybe now that I've got everything set it'll just take care of itself.

We'll see...

Thanks again,
Fernando


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## MatPat (Mar 22, 2004)

Keep us posted on our tank Fernando!


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## titan97 (Feb 14, 2005)

Staghorn has always been a problem with my setup, too. I have found that it is critical maintain a strong amount of CO2 in the tank. The minute it gets below 10ppm or so, the staghorn starts up. Also, I've found that if I overdose the micros, it gives the staghorn a head start. With that being said, if my macros take a dive, this makes my micros look "high", and I get the same thing. CO2, CO2, CO2 is the key. You can try some Seachem Florish Excel to boost your carbon. Try it for a week to see if the staghorn slows down or stops. This will definitely tell you if you are CO2 deficient.

-Dustin


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## banderbe (Nov 17, 2005)

titan97 said:


> Staghorn has always been a problem with my setup, too. I have found that it is critical maintain a strong amount of CO2 in the tank. The minute it gets below 10ppm or so, the staghorn starts up. Also, I've found that if I overdose the micros, it gives the staghorn a head start. With that being said, if my macros take a dive, this makes my micros look "high", and I get the same thing. CO2, CO2, CO2 is the key. You can try some Seachem Florish Excel to boost your carbon. Try it for a week to see if the staghorn slows down or stops. This will definitely tell you if you are CO2 deficient.
> 
> -Dustin


Flourish excel contains a substance called glutaraldehyde.



> Source
> 
> Glutaraldehyde is a chemical frequently used as a disinfectant and sterilizing agent against bacteria and viruses (2% solution), an embalming fluid and tissue fixative, a component of leather tanning solutions, and an intermediate in the production of certain sealants, resins, dyes, and electrical products (HSDB, 1996)


It is primarily responsible for stopping the growth of algae. If he were to have good results with Flourish excel it would NOT indicate that he is CO2 deficient. I think this is an important point so that he or others who might read this thread don't get spun off on a wild goose chase based on their success with Flourish excel.


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## pzuzu (Mar 3, 2006)

Okay, so I think about two weeks have passed since this post. I have increased my CO2 and have maintained it at about 50ppm. I am weary of pushing it any higher. I have just ordered 2 liter bottle of excel and will try this out. I'm hoping this will just kill it for the time being cuz I really don't want to have to dose yet something else to my tank from now on. This stuff gets expensive after a while, ya know? But if it's the only thing, then I'll do it, cuz I hate the look of this stuff.

It has not stopped...if anything, raising the CO2 seemed to boost up its growth. I don't know if that's what's causing it, but I can pretty much see it everywhere. Some of it is black, and some of it is grayish. I spend almost an hour everyday with my steel gardening tongs yanking it off of leaves. The big clumps are easy and just come right off. I've noticed a few haystack looking clumps just hanging out in between plants without even being attached to anything.

And I've also noticed some kind of green algae growing on the leaves nearest the light on the top of my plants. Anyone know what this is? It looks dirty. I'm not liking it at all!!!  

Before I try the excel however, I'm going to conduct one more little experiment. I've been reading around and I have found that a lot of people don't dose flourish iron because they feel flourish comprehensive has enough iron in it, and adding any more iron just leads to problems. I have been dosing 15mL of flourish and 7.5ml of Flourish Iron on micro days, so this week I'm gonna cut off the iron and just dose Flourish. According to the Fertilator, that'll still be 0.27ppm in my tank, as opposed to 1.11ppm when combined. It kinda makes sense doesn't it? Or should I not even consider this as an option?

If you would advise not doing this please let me know ASAP as I was planning on starting this today, my first micro day of the week.

I'll do this for 2-3 weeks, see what happens. Otherwise, I'll try the Excel overdose I've been reading about.

Well, thanks again!
Fernando


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