# Creature suggestions for the SSA



## Preposterous4 (Feb 23, 2010)

SSA I just made that up: but what I mean is a self sustaining aquarium.

My experience is: java fern, loaches, snails, small Pleco types are awesome.

I am interested in some sort of fungus, bugs, critters, worms and ideal plants for low nutrient environments.


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## Cliff Mayes (Jan 29, 2007)

No one has invented a perpetual motion machine, yet. That’s what a self sustaining aquarium is. All tanks are small compared to nature and are very bizarre anyway and no one has come up with a tank that you just add food or water every once in a while. Over a long period there are even changes in a large Lake or Stream that are noticeable to humans. NPTs with a very low fish load come fairly close but...

Nice try but not yet unfortunately.

All of the mentioned critters including the Ancistrus type Plecos (no more than one) are good unless you want a herd of Loaches in a small (under 20G, an assumption because you did not tell us what size tank you are interested in) tank. Unless you decide to highlight the tank with to much light and use up all the CO2 and other nutrients you should be OK except for various algae and the constant maintenance that all tanks need.

Good luck Partner.


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## Preposterous4 (Feb 23, 2010)

Seriously, I mean be for real this time.


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## Preposterous4 (Feb 23, 2010)

I have been keeping tanks for almost 20 years. I was hoping for suggestions like:

springtails
cladocerans 
copepods
cyclops
lumbriculus worms


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## Cliff Mayes (Jan 29, 2007)

That's as real as I can be. A 20 isn't overly large and you cannot keep a lot of fish in there so make up your mind to have to restrict the number of species and the actual quantity of specimens to whatever will fit.

By the way 20 years is a long time but there are folks around that have been in the hobby a lot longer than that.

I have been watching the various threads of people who have ended up with ongoing cultures of Blackworms in their gravel with great interest. I seems to me that this might be a good source of free live food right in the tank if it works over a long period. I had this happen in a Discus tank that I was feeding Blackworms too and the Cories, that were in the tank, absolutely delighted in pulling the worms out of the gravel. But the promotion of any live culture needs to be sustainable over a long period of time to make any sense and always bear in mind that anything needs food and a place to be in order to survive and prosper.


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## bratyboy2 (Feb 5, 2008)

alright cliff!

a reef tank can become somewhat self sufficient but it does take some refreshing at times.

i dont think anyone has made a freshwater tank self sufficient yet. like cliff says bugs andwhat not will come and go but may crash at some time or another. they need food as well


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## Tuiflies (Jan 21, 2010)

Preposterous4 said:


> SSA I just made that up: but what I mean is a self sustaining aquarium.My experience is: java fern, loaches, snails, small Pleco types are awesome.
> 
> I am interested in some sort of fungus, bugs, critters, worms and ideal plants for low nutrient environments.


I've just finished setting up a tank exactly like you're trying to accomplish but it's not quite so complicated. I have a 6g no tech NPT in a wine carboy. Flora are Sag Subulata, Anubias Golden, Windelov Java, Crypt Lucens and floating Water Sprite and Rotala Indica. (There was some Bolbitis that you can see in the back of the pics, but it melted as soon as I got here. I think it froze during shipping.) Fauna are 3F guppies, 1M guppy (young, around 3-4 mo old), 10 RCS (two berried), ramshorn and pond/bladder snails. I'm waiting for the weather to improve so I can order some MTS and I want to add a few more plants to increase the plant mass and improve the 'scape. I also have some jars with mulm, dead leaves ect. that's breeding my infusiora (Cyclops and Daphnia mostly) that I'm going to add last. I'm hoping there'll be enough plants for them to hide so they can sustain some sort of a population.

The working assumption is that the RCS/Guppy offspring become the food source. Algae is no longer undesireable unless it's something the RCS can't eat like green water (hence the floating plants). The Windelov and Anubias will also help keep the water column clean.

One of my concerns is the guppies or RCS over populating and causing a total crash but I'm hoping there'll be enough of a lack of food that they won't last long. Guess we'll see.

I started the Sag (early/mid Nov) semi-emmersed (just a half inch of water) for almost two months waiting for the rest of the plants to come. Planted the rest in early Jan and added the female guppies. Just got the RCS about two weeks ago and added the male guppy. It's been corked since.


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## Preposterous4 (Feb 23, 2010)

That pretty cool Tuiflies! Like to know how that works out. 

I am not exactly looking for a mini pond but an extremely low maintenance tank. I once had a live rock tank with only soft corals that worked out well but that was pretty easy. I have 3 fish 8 shrimp and snails in a rocky java fern 54 gal. I use a hang on the back skimmer/refugium that works great now for about 4 years. Canister filter return just barely moves surface and skimmer comes on 3 hours a night. I haven't fed the tank for months. It is about 9 mos with its current fish load. I still have to change the water once a month however which is a totally unreasonable demand on my slacker lifestyle!


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## PeterE (Feb 9, 2010)

I like your idea, Preposterous4. If you didn't have many fish and could feed the animals specialized foods such as green water, I am sure you could culture most copepods, daphnia, or insects like water beetles or the various larger larvae (such as stonefly nymphs) that a lot of species have. Do you know of any species of aquatic fungus, besides the white fuzzy kind on driftwood, that you could use? That would be pretty cool, but I've never heard of any kind. I don't think many worms or smaller bottom dwellers would survive if you had loaches, but plecos like bushynose or any similar species would be fine, as far as I know. How big is this tank? This sounds like a lot of fun. Shrimp would be cool too, but I don't know what you want in this tank. I hope I was helpful,
Peter


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## RestlessCrow (Nov 5, 2009)

Just my .02 here....

Mother nature never does something just ONCE.

The planet Earth as a whole.... is an SSA.

An ocean... as a whole... is an SSA.

A lake.... is an SSA.

A POND... is an SSA.

A Diurnal pond.... is an SSA.

I have seen PUDDLES... (large ones) that are SSA's...

I believe it's possible.

When I was a kid, I read an article... Couldn't TELL you what magazine it was in. Boys' Life maybe? About creating a self sustaining biosphere in a mason jar using things that you could catch in your local pond. I remember having hydra, daphina, and some sort of freshwater crustacean that i caught in the pond across the street from my house. I had one that ran for at least a year... completely self sustainable until I forgot about it for a few weeks....

All I did was add water.

Mother nature never does something one time. Life will always find a way. Keep us posted.


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## NatalieT (Mar 20, 2007)

RestlessCrow said:


> When I was a kid, I read an article... Couldn't TELL you what magazine it was in. Boys' Life maybe? About creating a self sustaining biosphere in a mason jar using things that you could catch in your local pond. I remember having hydra, daphina, and some sort of freshwater crustacean that i caught in the pond across the street from my house. *I had one that ran for at least a year... completely self sustainable until I forgot about it for a few weeks....*
> 
> All I did was add water.


The bold part is what I have a question about: if it was self-sustainable, why did it matter that you forgot about it? The only thing I can think of that would go wrong would be if so much water evaporated that it was completely dry. I would think that would take more than a few weeks?


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## NayR:D (Jan 14, 2010)

Could it possibly the new bacteria that 'fresh' pond water would bring into the small jar that the larger creatures would consume or keep the water conditions right not being added for a few weeks that could cause it to fail? Plus we are assuming by a few weeks he was being exact because when i say few weeks and then look into it i find it may of been 5 6 or even 7 weeks 

Im sure his not telling an ugly decitful lie to us all jeez 

I have bloodworm living in a NPT i doubt they would last long with a few cory's in there haha. You would find yourself adding a new batch every now and then. The only sure fire way to have it self sustainable would be to put everything you want in(plants fish live food)) and let it be, if it dies it dies , and if it rots then youve done something right because something is eating that, if the water goes swamp like and you eventually have some wierd freakish bacteria swmming around well then thats living of the mank water lol. If you want something nice to look at then i would think some level of care and help would be needed unless you want creature u cant see without a microscope and a smelling tank?


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## PeterE (Feb 9, 2010)

How's it goin'? Have you started anything yet?


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## RestlessCrow (Nov 5, 2009)

NatalieT said:


> The bold part is what I have a question about: if it was self-sustainable, why did it matter that you forgot about it? The only thing I can think of that would go wrong would be if so much water evaporated that it was completely dry. I would think that would take more than a few weeks?


Natalie.... You hit the nail right on the head. You should have been a carpenter!!!  My house is extremely dry, and one quart of water turned into about a half of a cup very rapidly. All of the Flora growing on the sides of the glass was exposed to the air and died, thus being able to support the fauna, and the whole system crashed.


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