# ADA AS + Melting Plants?!



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

I just added ADA AS this past week and planted plants I got on the forum.

Everything seems to be melting now. The ludwigia, rotala, vals, even the anubias!

Is it temporary and will the plants grow new leaves? Everything is turning into mush, and I'm not sure why! Is it because the drastic change in kH? The fish seem fine, but the plants are dying!

I have 2.5 WPG over the 40 gallon tank w/ EI dosing and pressurized CO2 (it's been on and off intermittently since I keep re-arranging things).


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

I experienced the same thing and everything actually grew back 10x better looking! I don't know about your anubias though, I had microsorum in the tank and it didn't experience any side effects from the AS.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Yea, my java fern isn't affected too badly. The tips are a little iffy, but the rest of it seems fine. The subwassertang looks OK too. Everything else is dead or dying...or melting.


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

My ferns have clearish tips too but I think it has to do with growing super fast! It has quadrupled in size since I got it and puts out about 10-15 usable plantlets every month. 

When I set up my tank I did water changes almost every day and dosed no ferts and cut light and photo period down by at least 1/4.


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## MrSanders (Mar 5, 2006)

I also expierenced the same thing when I re did my tank with AS and PS, however my plants never grew back, and the second batch I planted melted also. Fianally on the third try they settled in..... However I never expierenced any good growth from them... was really disapointed with the "performance" of the substrate....


Really hope you have a better expierence!


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

How's your guys' dosing? you're not supposed to be relying on the substrate too much, that's why they have liquid ferts too and ferns aren't normally rooted in the substrate so it relies on the ferts.


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## stepheus (Jun 13, 2006)

I believe its a effect that a batch of Aquasoil is having effect on plants. I had the same bad experience. I did some WC, and then conditioned the soil by adding some hygrophila difformis to absorb some of the nutrients and to prevent algae from blooming since I wont be adding any plants in it. Even the hygrophila difformis werent doing very well, as a hardy plant. It survived the ordeal and saved me from a tankful of pea soup.

Maybe if you have a test kit, can you report the water parameters? I would suspect a spike in ammonia and a drastic change in KH rather then anything else. 

I waited for almost 1 ~ 2 months before added anything that I am not willing to part with, like some crypts and and lillies. Plants are growing like crazy now. You can most prob shorten the months into a week or 2 by freq WC.

*

I bought another bag of AS lately, and there seem to be no such instances where the plants melt. However, I did soak the AS for one week before my curiosity gotten a hold on me and I added plants. I even added some crypts, into the newly soaked AS, it hasnt melted. Its been almost a month that the crypt has been in the soil. Its doing fine. However, I ll never trust a new bag of AS to my plants anymore, I will soak it for at least a week, do WC everyday, before anything is planted. Hope this helps.

I bumped into a article online where a guy soaked his AS for a 12 days and tested for its parameters everyday while doing water changes sometimes 2 times a day. By the end of the 12th day, had perfect condition to raise RCS. I ll try to look for the article if someone doesnt beat me to it


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## growitnow (Feb 25, 2007)

*AS test outcomes*

stepheus,

Please do, that information I think would be useful to many of us thinking about, or about to, purchase and try AS. I talked to the ADA rep several weeks ago and, while friendly and enthusiastic, he was not particularly specific about what types of changes to anticipate. Though his reservations may have just been that being specific when people have vastly variable systems (what water, what plants, etc. ) is essentially impossible.

Having some parametric 'data' from someone who as measured systematically would be informative. Anyone else who has monitored their water please chime in. I am certainly among the unwashed who wants to be educated.

growitnow


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## stepheus (Jun 13, 2006)

Silane from ShrimpNow said:


> Fastest Cycle time with ADA Amoniza Aquasoil for me.
> 
> Recently just cycle a new tank with ADAsoil within 1 week, ammonia was very near 0. After 11 days, nitrate was 5ppm.
> 
> ...


I take no credit on the stuff i just posted. this is the original thread, in another forum, ShrimpNow. It'll be nice if someone goes over to that forum and give Silane, who also happens to be a moderator there, a pat on the back.


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## aloha (Jun 2, 2005)

Two weeks ago i 've switched to aquasoil. I had an established tank for 2 years and decided to replace my old inert gravel to aquasoil as a substrate. I decided to make the substrate swap same day to avoid messing with different tanks, buckets around for fish and plants, non appropriate filtering because of the separate tanks for fish etc. I was adviced by a friend here to soak aquasoil in a bucket for a few weeks in order to leach out as much as possible ammonia and other noxious products it may had. It was a great advice, so i decided to soak it for a week, but it wasn't enough. After AS was in tank (with mulm from the old tank at the bottom), then i placed as many plants as i could, filled the tank with the old water, put the already 2 year established filter, put the fish and let them to rest overnight.

The first day after the substrate swap i measured about 4ppm NH4. One hour after a 50% wc, ammonia levels where about 4ppm again. I realized that the only way i could take care of the ammonia is to let the plants do their job and keep the pH low (about 6.10-6.20) to be less toxic for fish. I put many floating plants (pistia), full of CO2, full lightning for 10 hours/day. After 3 days and by doing 50% wc daily, ammonia dropped to 0 and the floating plant mass was about the twice. All other species (glosso, diandra, rotundifolia, stellata, hemianthus, zosterifolia) after the third day started making new shoots, leaves etc. A week later the tank had to be pruned  

No melting so far, no algae problems for the first two weeks. The only problem was that the very fast growing h. polysperma showed pinholes and started melting but i believe it is a sign of K deficiency because the plant was overdriven by my effort to take care the excess ammonia. Don't know if it was a bad batch or not but if i am to use aquasoil again i would definitely let it cycle first for a few weeks, maybe a month and then start planting, then put few fish etc.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Hm, the melted stems are now floating...some have new growth at their tips, but maybe just a few leaves.

Planted a few new stems of different plants, so we'll see if they survive.

All the leaves on my 12 anubias plants have melted off. Any ideas on how long it'll take for them to re-grow? For now, I have rhizomes tied to my wood, and no leaves at all.


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## aloha (Jun 2, 2005)

Well, maybe be your plants need some time to adapt to the new environment. My water parameters before the switch to AS where really low ph: 6.10-6.20, KH:3 , GH: 3. After the switch pH dropped to 5.50 KH to 0 and GH about the same, so i believe my plants weren't stressed so much. I think you'd better put some fast growers to help the situation. Don't worry about your anubias, it's a really hard to kill plant.


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## yxberia (Apr 19, 2005)

My cryptocoryne are still melting. They are not doing good in Aquasoil. The substrate is now 4 months old.


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

Crypts melt when there is any kind of change from my experience.


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## yxberia (Apr 19, 2005)

eklikewhoa said:


> Crypts melt when there is any kind of change from my experience.


The crypt have been there since I started Aquasoil, 4 months ago. Never being moved. Also, nothing change including pH. Condition does not improve even with addition of ADA Step 3. While the rest is doing fine.

I have great success with sand + soil subs last time. Although with occasion melting leaves, new leaves grow back very fast. But not with Aquasoil.


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

So it melted from day one and is just clinging on to life?

I have a friend that started a 10g with AS and I gave him a clump of crypt benekii I believe it was and it all melted as well but came back in full with full force! 

More info on your tank?


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

aloha said:


> Well, maybe be your plants need some time to adapt to the new environment. My water parameters before the switch to AS where really low ph: 6.10-6.20, KH:3 , GH: 3. After the switch pH dropped to 5.50 KH to 0 and GH about the same, so i believe my plants weren't stressed so much. I think you'd better put some fast growers to help the situation. Don't worry about your anubias, it's a really hard to kill plant.


Heh. Hard to kill, but half are dead. I've trimmed most of the rhizomes to about 30% of their original length. So far, no so impressed with ADA AS. Hm. But patience is a virtue...or so I've heard.


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## stepheus (Jun 13, 2006)

There must be other factors that are causing the meltdown. I am very sorry to hear about it tho. More information will help. I poked my whole batch of crypts into AS when I got my first batch of AS, not knowing better. they all came back. Plus, 4 months is enough for a tank to be kinda mature. What are the other plants you are talking about? What kind of crypt issit? Has anyone else heard of crypts that need hard and alkaline water - opposing to what AS provides?


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 24, 2006)

Well it took mine about a good month before it came back to full size again and I have about 7wpg with double EI and good co2 so I am guessing that with less it would have taken longer.


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## yxberia (Apr 19, 2005)

1. Mine are cryptocoryne undulata ''broad leaves''.
http://www.tropica.dk/productcard_1.asp?id=110A
They stop growing, all leaves turn deep dark brown. Old leaves melt slowly.

2. Other successful species in the same tank:
glosso, blyxa japonica, eichhornia diversifolia, vallisneria nana, aponogeton madagascarensis "narrow leaf" and aponogeton sp.

3. According to Tropica, some crypts like less acidic and hardwater:
http://www.tropica.dk/productcard_1.asp?id=109C

I think it is quite true because at my current pH 6.5 setup(controller-ed) they are somewhat stunt. pH is kept low because of rotala macrandra.

I have also planted the same species into my new nano shrimp tank (Japanese Gex Soil, no liquid fertilizer used), CO2 only on during the 8 hours photo period. And it is growing bigger well each day.

These are old pictures when they were in Holand sand + cheap soil substrate. They kept growing and growing, those days!

http://lrg.zorpia.com/0/770/4932310.442a03.jpg
http://lrg.zorpia.com/0/770/4932313.c9cdeb.jpg


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