# **Possible** contaminated Aquasoil in the field



## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

It appears that there is a problem with some ADA Aqua Soil that has been sold to some customers.

The problem is the Aqua Soil is leeching something into the water that turns it VERY brown and cloudy after a few days. Water changes reduce the cloudiness, but it soon comes back again, and continues to do after more water changes.

Here's two different people who have reported this problem:

Giving up - The Planted Tank Forum

brown/cloudy water with ADA Aquasoil? - The Planted Tank Forum

Here's some pictures that the user in the first thread posted. The first one shows what the brown cloudiness looks like after it has built up:










This person was ready to actually quit the tank after several 90% water changes, but tried capping the Aqua Soil with a layer of standard aquarium gravel, and the problem went away:










I think this needs to be researched; we need to identify what the problem is, how many bags are affected, and how to help ADA correct the problem.

At this point I have no idea when and where these users obtained their Aqua Soil.


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

How are they pouring in water after they put in the substrate? The person can not simply spray water in full blast. I use plastic bags to cover the soil and the scape when it's done filling up it's clear. And do they have wood in there? Also are the ammonia levels in check? Maybe a bacerial bloom. Do they have the filter spraying directly at the soil? It also does not look like the have much plants in the tank.


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

> I have had my tank set up since July1st. It has had brown water the entire time. I tried water changes(80%), UV, more plants, took the wood out, carbon, cleaned filters every 4 days, everything. I even vacuumed the aqua soil, thinking that may be causing the brown water. So I give,,,,I can do salt water reefs but not fresh water Go Figure.....Tina


I notice some problems here... She had wood(tannins), cleaning filter out every 4 days(bacterial bloom), vacuuming AS(stiring up the soil, making the water cloudy).



> I just did a 40% water change and figured I'd run a little experiment over the weekend. I filled 2 jars with the fresh tank water - One with only water, and one with Aquasoil from the tank in the bottom. If the water in the jar with the aquasoil is bron on monday I'll know it's from the substrate. If both jars have brown water I can assume it's not caused by the substrate.
> 
> Hope it's not the aquasoil b/c I think it really helps the plants. I'll keep you posted on the results.


He didn't say where he put the jars if it was in sun light or close to light then the fresh tank water may have had a bacterial bloom, thinking that it was a new tank. He should have used new water and put the jars in a fairly dark place. He also did not say how he filled it or how it appeared after he filled it. He may have filled it under a rushing faucet.

Also, these people don't give the specs of their tanks, plant load, lights, co2, and ferts. If something is wrong there, then it will cause an algae/bacterial bloom.

Plus, AS is know to have some tint, but not as extreme as that.

I am not defending ADA, my point is are these people using it the right way and do they know what they are doing? I can be wrong and ADA may have some afffected AS, but I think it's very rare.


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## bigstick120 (Mar 8, 2005)

Another thing to note is it looks like that person has a ton of power sand in there as well, looks pretty thick up front there


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

> She had wood(tannins)


She took the wood out.



> cleaning filter out every 4 days(bacterial bloom)


It's a brand new tank.



> vacuuming AS(stiring up the soil, making the water cloudy).


It's a brand new tank.

She only vacuumed _after_ she experienced the issue.


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

> Another thing to note is it looks like that person has a ton of power sand in there as well, looks pretty thick up front there


I don't believe it would cause brown cloudiness _that_ bad.


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

> He also did not say how he filled it or how it appeared after he filled it. He may have filled it under a rushing faucet.


Not sure I understand your way of thinking here.

If he fills the jar with Aquasoil with water, and it is NOT cloudy, but then turns cloudy after a couple of days, how could you conclude that the cloudiness is caused by water running into the jar too fast when it was filled?



> He didn't say where he put the jars if it was in sun light or close to light then the fresh tank water may have had a bacterial bloom, thinking that it was a new tank. He should have used new water and put the jars in a fairly dark place.


It's a brand new tank. It's new water. Why would he put the jars in direct sun or bright light? Maybe you should post in that thread and ask him for this info... we need to get to the bottom of this.


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## erijnal (Apr 5, 2006)

Neither said how much flow they had in their tanks. Also, I can't imagine how simply putting aquarium gravel on top would make a problem like that simply disappear. Water is still circulating through the substrate so the gravel top layer can't be the cause of the disappearance of the water. The only way that I can imagine it would help is if the water movement after it's gone through the gravel top layer is a lot more gentle and not going nuts on the AS.

I'm willing to bet ADA has pretty strict quality control procedures, so the possibility of a bad batch is low, and the likelihood of the people doing something wrong is probably real high. 

Last thought, the picture of the cloudy tank was taken with a flash. The flash may make the brown tint look worse than it really is. I know when I took pictures of tannin-stained water with my flash on, the water looked very dark, nothing like the light tea-stained color that I actually had.


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

powersand special has a fair bit of peat. 









Is there a possibiliy that an excess of PS, not a thick enough layer of AS over the PS, or sturring up the PS might have caused this problem?


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

I'm not really sure why everyone is so quick to instantly explain this away due to user error or some other such issue.

This is the first time I've ever heard of this happening with Aqua Soil. Ever. Aquascaping thread after aquascaping thread, journal thread after journal thread, Aqua Soil is added, there is some slight white or brown cloudiness, and the next day the water is crystal clear and stays that way.

In a very short time frame, TWO completely different users get brown cloudiness that is so bad you can't even see into the tank. They do water changes and the cloudiness is reduced, then it comes right back, and keeps doing it.

One user caps the Aqua Soil and the problem goes away.

The other user sets up two jars and the one with the Aqua Soil has the problem.

Troubleshooting is about finding a common element that is different now. The evidence is very strong here that that common element is the Aqua Soil.

I was hoping to help try to identify this issue right away so it could be quickly solved. But, if this is to be explained away due to user error for now, then I guess the problem is going to have to become more widespread before anyone will take the issue more seriously.


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

OK, user number two reports that the brown cloudiness isn't as bad for him. He also reports the Aqua Soil was purchased approximately in mid July from Aqua Forest Aquarium in San Francisco.

I'm going to see if I can get him to send me some. If I can, I would like to both try some of my own testing and also send the rest to an ADA representative who can examine the Aqua Soil to determine if there really is a problem that needs to be addressed.


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

> I'm not really sure why everyone is so quick to instantly explain this away due to user error or some other such issue.


This is why:


> This is the first time I've ever heard of this happening with Aqua Soil. Ever.


If the issue isn't consistant with the product, then the first assumption is user error.



> One user caps the Aqua Soil and the problem goes away.


is consistant with the possibility of:


> Is there a possibiliy that an excess of PS, not a thick enough layer of AS over the PS


What I would do is toss a handful of powersand special in one jar and toss a handfull of this contaminated AQ in a jar and see what happens.


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

Here's a third user now:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/science-of-substrates/30594-amazonia-tinted-water.html

Gomer even posted in that thread. :???:


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## Gomer (Feb 2, 2004)

the tinting I am refereing to in that thread is a very slight tinting that you may expect from driftwood. It isn't really anything even remotely compared to the photo you posted in this thread.


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## jerseyjay (Jan 25, 2004)

Salt, 

What I see in my tank is nothing like what I see in your first picture. That looks like a pea soup. If you have a scale 1-10 and picture above is 10, my tank is about 1, if that.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

I'm with salt on this one. There is no **proof** that the AS is at fault and there is no proof that it isn't. At this point I think it's reasonable to keep an open mind and admit that it is possible that some bad stuff made it into the market. We've certainly seen it with other brands.

I've read through the thread on PT with the pea-soup photos above and the person tells a pretty reasonable story. Still, who knows what is actually taking place in her tank. Maybe she is using an egg-beater to stir the substrate daily - who knows?

If a few more people start having issues I'd consider it a real problem. Two isolated incidents - probaby not worth pursuing.


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## turtlehead (Nov 27, 2004)

Manzanita tannins








Looks similar to the first picture.


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## Erirku (Oct 5, 2004)

I still have minimal amounts of brown water. In fact, the water is just tinged brown. Don't know what the deal is, but it is not bad as the first post. I like the look of my brown water. I hope the AS is not contaminated!


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## ianiwane (May 6, 2005)

In all my experiences aquasoil does tint the water for a few weeks. I've posted this in other places as well. It have never made the water turn as brown as in your first picture. Getting a small amount of tinted water is normal with aquasoil. I really am not sure what happened with that first persons tank. But something is wrong. In a full ada setup with a ada filter, there is a large amount of carbon in the filter. I believe it is there to take care of this problem. The ada filters have over half of the canister filled with carbon intially.


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

This pretty much proves that there was some "bad" Aqua Soil out there:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/g...ion/36119-bad-bag-ada-aquasoil-proof-but.html

Someone speculated that the "bad" stuff may have not been baked / fired for long enough.

The date, lot, and manufacturing data are in Japanese. The user who posted that thread is going to try to contact ADA and get some info on how to check the manufacturing data for "bad" product.


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## jsenske2 (Oct 5, 2006)

No such alleged "bad bags" have come from ADG, so I have every reason to believe our stock is just fine (this is the ADG forum, so I feel compelled to make this clear).


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

jsenske2 said:


> No such alleged "bad bags" have come from ADG, so I have every reason to believe our stock is just fine (this is the ADG forum, so I feel compelled to make this clear).


I think this is something that everyone should keep in mind. This is a potentially important issue that deserves to be discussed, but Jeff is right - having it take place here in a sponsor's forum probably isn't appropriate.

In any case, most of us are aware of occasional problems with just about every substrate on the market. No commercial bulk product ships with 100% perfection. ADA deserves a chance to respond to those who feel that they've had problems with one of their products. In any case, it's clear that if there is a problem, it's pretty limitted.

Remember, speculation about what may or may not have happened isn't productive. I invite any interested or affected parties to share their experiences in the "Science of Substrates" section of this forum. Pending further review from the admins & other mods, this thread is closed.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

With the recent updates to APC, it's still impossible to move threads. Once this function is restored, I'll re-open the thread and move it to the "Science of Substrates" forum.


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## gnatster (Mar 6, 2004)

Opened and moved


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

My thinking at the time I posted was ADG forum = ADA forum, which wasn't really correct. I had forgotten the concept of a "sponsor" forum and totally agree that this originally should have been in the substrate forum. I apologize for my error.

I want to point out that my only hope is to get to the bottom of what's happened and help ADA solve it, not criticize ADA or make people feel they shouldn't use ADA substrate due to fear mongering.



> In any case, it's clear that if there is a problem, it's pretty limitted.





> Remember, speculation about what may or may not have happened isn't productive.


Speculation is what happens in discussion forums though, and if the person clearly says that what they are saying is a speculation, what's the harm in discussing it? In my opinion, saying at this point that it's clear that the problem is limited is a speculation itself. To conclude this, you would have to know what happened to the bags, what vendors they were shipped to, how many have been sold so far, how many people who were affected actually posted about the problem, whether or not the people who bought an affected bag used them yet, etc., etc.

Did the problem come from production at ADA? Or did the problem occur in shipping? What's leeching into the water? Could it be due to a production problem, like not being fired long enough? Or did the bags get affected with something during shipping, or at a specific vendor?

To answer these questions requires investigation, at which various points some speculations will have to be made in the process of narrowing down the possibilities.


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