# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Water change question...



## Geoff S (Feb 8, 2004)

I am just getting back into the hobby after a 30 year hiatus. I'm starting out by setting up a 72g bowfront tank and am curious about procedures that others are using for doing water changes with their large tanks.

My experience in the past has been with 10 and 20 gallon setups where it was not a great burden to use 1 gallon milk jugs to do water changes. I would fill the jugs up a day or two ahead of time and let the water stand so that the chlorine would dissipate. But, with a 72g tank, and 20-50% water change - wow, just too much water to use that procedure.

I am going to get a Python No-Spill as that just seems to be a no-brainer. However, the question that bothers me is whether or not it is safe to fill the tank using the Python with chlorinated tapwater, and then after the tank is filled, use something like Amquel to remove the chlorine. Will the plants and fish be able to tolerate the chlorinated water at such a high volume for the few minutes before the Amquel is put in and takes effect?

I've also read of another alternative: the use of an in-line pre-filter prepped with activated carbon and zeolite to remove chlorine, chloramines, and ammonia as the tap water is on its way to the tank...

Any comments are appreciated!

Thanks,
Geoff


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## Geoff S (Feb 8, 2004)

I am just getting back into the hobby after a 30 year hiatus. I'm starting out by setting up a 72g bowfront tank and am curious about procedures that others are using for doing water changes with their large tanks.

My experience in the past has been with 10 and 20 gallon setups where it was not a great burden to use 1 gallon milk jugs to do water changes. I would fill the jugs up a day or two ahead of time and let the water stand so that the chlorine would dissipate. But, with a 72g tank, and 20-50% water change - wow, just too much water to use that procedure.

I am going to get a Python No-Spill as that just seems to be a no-brainer. However, the question that bothers me is whether or not it is safe to fill the tank using the Python with chlorinated tapwater, and then after the tank is filled, use something like Amquel to remove the chlorine. Will the plants and fish be able to tolerate the chlorinated water at such a high volume for the few minutes before the Amquel is put in and takes effect?

I've also read of another alternative: the use of an in-line pre-filter prepped with activated carbon and zeolite to remove chlorine, chloramines, and ammonia as the tap water is on its way to the tank...

Any comments are appreciated!

Thanks,
Geoff


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## Verminaard (Dec 18, 2003)

I used a python a few years ago- and always dosed amquel after I was done filling up the tank. But, my python only lasted a few months-one of the valves broke and created a high pressure sprinkler for 10 seconds or so. I use a five gallon bucket to do water changes on my 72. Its not that bad really-I change 30 gallons twice a week. The other thing I dont like about pythons is that the water temperature can fluctuate (someone flushing a toilet, etc) and you wouldnt really notice. Ive heard of horror stories of freezing cold tap water in tanks killing fish simply because the user was unaware of the temp. $40 python or $1 bucket- I guess its your preference.


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## Geoff S (Feb 8, 2004)

Thanks for the feedback.

Others online have talked about using the python for ages on multiple tanks without problems. I'm curious as to where the leak sprung from? Was it at the connection of the faucet to the python adapter?

I agree that water temperature is another factor concerning me about taking water straight from the tap. However, if I were to connect the python to the tub faucet (appropriate fittings could be a problem), temperature changes would not be a problem for me since my shower valve is a temperature compensating valve designed to maintain a constant temperature regardless of pressure changes in hot or cold water supply lines.

But... lugging 5g buckets across my house and over carpeting is something that raises a big red flag for my wife. I'd really like an alternate solution.


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## Verminaard (Dec 18, 2003)

The center valve (flow on/off) completely busted apart on my python. It looked kind of like a high powered sprinkler flailing wildly about- it was a memorable experience. My wife does have a major problem with the 5g bucket drips-I always do them when shes not home to avoid any confrontation. I did sometimes have trouble with the faucet adapter as well; I guess I look at the bucket maneuvers as exercise. Its a labor of love after all.


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## JERP (Feb 4, 2003)

Chlorines and Chloramines aren't so toxic that 5min of exposure will kill your fish and plants. At least not in the concentrations in tap water. Adding Amquel after you add the water isn't a problem. You can add the Amquel between draining and filling if you like.

I use a DIY kind of python setup for water changes. I use a hose with a Y-valve at the faucet, and a shutoff valve with a clamp at the end of the hose. I am fortunate enough to have easy access to a hose faucet through a nearby window. I place the end of the hose in the tank and clamp it in place at the depth I want to drain to. With the shut off valve open, I go outside and turn on the hose just long enough to fill the hose with water. Then I turn off the faucet and open the unconnected valve at the Y. The water from the tank drains to the preset level. Then I close the y-valve and open the faucet tp fill the tank. When the tank is full, I use the shutoff valve at the end of the hose to stop filling the tank. I then go outside and turn the water off and open the Y-valve to relieve pressure. The biggest danger is forgetting the hose is on. With my attention span, it's a very real dnager. I haven't seen a problem with the cold shock, but my heater returns the water to rightful temperature in a few hours. The fish go into a bit of a shock, but don't die. Plants are made of sturdier stuff. Don't blast the hose. Fill the tank slowly.

I use a bucket when gravel cleaning, but only fill one bucket. That stuff is for the uninteresting plants that aren't in my fish tank.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

I use a Python to fill the tanks. I use a standard hose with a DIY water changer to remove the water. There is a link to a picture of the water changer at my FAQ. I siphon the water out, then hook the Python to the water changer to fill the tank. I use Seachem Prime to treat the water. Now the key is to treat the whole tank and not just the water change. I add half the required amount just as I start adding the water and the rest a couple of minutes later. I normally do water changes (6 tanks, soon to be 7) when no one else is home. But since it's just the wife and I have pretty much have her trained not to screw with the water when I'm doing water changes.

Using the Python to pump the water out of the tank is IMHO a huge waste of water. I have a 55 and a 29 close to each other. I siphon the water out of the 55, start the fill, switch the siphon hose to the water changer on the 29 and let it drain. Then I fill the 29 when the 55 is done. I can do 50% changes on these two tanks in around 20 minutes. The nice thing about the water changer is the unattended drain and then when you fill it breaks up the flow so plants and substrate are not blown all over hell and back.










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## JERP (Feb 4, 2003)

Rex,
I was considering building something like that with a float valve attached to prevent overfills.


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## Geoff S (Feb 8, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Verminaard:
> The center valve (flow on/off) completely busted apart on my python. It looked kind of like a high powered sprinkler flailing wildly about- it was a memorable experience.


Sorry, but I couldn't help but smile when I read that  If it had happened to me there would have been a few expletives as I made a mad dash to the faucet to turn the flow off, but since it didn't happen to me...

I guess I'm just too lazy to haul all those 5g buckets back and forth and my wife can just sniff out the things I've done that I shouldn't have (like spilled water on the carpet), so I'm going to have to take my chances with Python methods. Besides, I have a bad back


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## Geoff S (Feb 8, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by JERP:
> Chlorines and Chloramines aren't so toxic that 5min of exposure will kill your fish and plants. At least not in the concentrations in tap water. Adding Amquel after you add the water isn't a problem. You can add the Amquel between draining and filling if you like.
> ...


Thanks for putting my mind at ease about the chlorine/chloramine issue. Sounds like I don't have to consider more complicated and expensive methods such as the inline prefilter with carbon and zeolite.

The cost of the Python is way out of line with what you would think such a thing should cost. I'm going to go the DIY route too. I found this article, DIY - Python Gravel Cleaner, describing how to build one yourself for a fraction of the cost.

BTW, I went to a local PetCo and found the 50' Python there. It looked like it was priced at $49 (expensive, right?) but I thought I'd get it anyway. At the checkout counter my final bill seemed way too high so I asked the cashier for the receipt and saw that they were going to charge me $85 for it! Wow. I complained and the manager went to check the price and told me it was correct. I quickly said they could keep it. That's when I decided I'd go the DIY route.


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## Geoff S (Feb 8, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Rex Grigg:
> I use a Python to fill the tanks. I use a standard hose with a DIY water changer to remove the water. There is a link to a picture of the water changer at my FAQ.


Rex,

I like your procedures and think that I'll copy them 

The syphon device that you built seems real easy to build and really solves the problem of unattended draining. Question: don't you need to have a different device for different depth tanks? Of course, since I will only have 1 tank it's not a problem for me.

It would be even nicer if, like JERP mentioned, you could use a float valve to use the device for filling without overfills.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

I built one for every tank I use them on. That way I avoid any cross-contamination between tanks and can do more than one tank at a time. One draining, one filling...... I guess you could put a float valve in there to prevent over-filling but I never gave it a thought.










American by birth, Marine by the grace of God! This post spell checked with IESpell available at http://www.iespell.com

See my Profile for tank details.

See my planted tank FAQ at http://members.dsl-only.net/~rex/
Caution, contains content which will offend sensitive people. Rated PG 13


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## Geoff S (Feb 8, 2004)

Well, Rex, that's what I thought you must be doing. Sounds like you've really got a system going for yourself 

Thanks for your help!


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