# advice on rare Discus



## ezeke1 (May 1, 2007)

Hello All,
I'm getting ready to drop alot of $$$ on these 3" golden leopard snakeskins. Can anyone with an experienced eye for discus strains comment on the rarity of these guys? Granted beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I think they're gorgeous, but I want to make sure I'm not getting shortchanged for some run of the mill discus.

Any comments are welcome


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## Dany (Oct 28, 2006)

Every so often there is a new breed of discus available and it becomes in high demand. Because of the rarity and high demand, the price of these discus are usually $100+. The golden leopard snake skins recently became available and are fairly new to the market. In other words because it’s new and rare the price of $100+ is justified in the discus world. If you were to get it and pay $100+ for them I would say it is normal for the golden leopard snake. Since, it’s a new breed of discus. 

Personally, I don’t think paying $100+ for a freshwater fish is justified but if you want the newest and rare types of discus and are willing to pay for it then this is perfect for you.


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## furballi (Feb 2, 2007)

They may be rare, but they are not SHOW QUALITY. I see damaged fins. These will heal, but there will still be scars on the fins. Probably 6.5 on a scale of 10. You're looking for long fins, with uniform coloration and consistent pattern throughout the fish.

Above-average fish:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Blue_Discus.JPG

http://64.26.25.241/Merchant2/merch...ore_Code=DM&Product_Code=d11&Category_Code=dy

http://64.26.25.241/Merchant2/merch...ore_Code=DM&Product_Code=d35&Category_Code=dy


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## David Hui (Dec 10, 2004)

IMO, Tony from Sunrise always has nice and healthy discus; however, do you really want to put 3" discus in your planted tank?


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## ezeke1 (May 1, 2007)

furballi said:


> They may be rare, but they are not SHOW QUALITY. I see damaged fins. These will heal, but there will still be scars on the fins. Probably 6.5 on a scale of 10. You're looking for long fins, with uniform coloration and consistent pattern throughout the fish.
> 
> Above-average fish:
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Blue_Discus.JPG
> ...


Given the price/size for these babies, a rating of 6.5 is disappointing. I'm not sure what show quality discus go for, but if we're talking $165/each these discus should be up to par. My criteria for buying them was the color strain and the distinct patterns on their body which they seem to have just like you stated. The pictures seem to show a nice and round body and the color pattern is well formed. Then again I'm new to Discus so I don't have a trained eye but I'm not necessarily looking for discus that would win contests (although it would be nice).


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## ezeke1 (May 1, 2007)

David Hui said:


> IMO, Tony from Sunrise always has nice and healthy discus; however, do you really want to put 3" discus in your planted tank?


David, I'm not sure what you mean by putting 3" discus in a planted tank. As opposed to bigger discus?

As of now, I have 2x3" and a 4" that are in the tank. They're new and very shy but so far I haven't noticed any side effects from having them.


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## David Hui (Dec 10, 2004)

David,

I feel 3" discus is too small for a planted tank because young discus requires a lot of feeding. Futhermore, if you already have discus in the tank, I would quarantine the new fish until they are safe to mix. HTH.

David


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## ezeke1 (May 1, 2007)

David Hui said:


> David,
> 
> I feel 3" discus is too small for a planted tank because young discus requires a lot of feeding. Futhermore, if you already have discus in the tank, I would quarantine the new fish until they are safe to mix. HTH.
> 
> David


Because of your comment I decided to feed my discus 3 times a day now versus 2. I gotta make sure they grow and grow some more lol. Of course that will mean more water changes too


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## David Hui (Dec 10, 2004)

If you can't keep up with wc don't feed that much and make sure you clean the bottom whenever you can. Have you visited simplydiscus.com ? Great forum on discus. You will find plenty of information on that site.


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

I think the Discus in the photo look very nice. I don't see any sign of stress with any of the dark bars showing, and I'm sure this guy is a reputable breeder, so if that's what you really want, and you have the bucks to spare, go for it.


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## ezeke1 (May 1, 2007)

Thanks for all the feedback everyone, I really appreciate it. My purpose for this thread was to get some input on the quality of the discus listed before buying and that is exactly what I got. 

I already bit the bullet and ordered them despite the high price, but like JanS said, I think the breeder is reputable and although these little guys aren't perfect, they are quite unique and beautiful. 

They should arrive in the mail tomorrow morning so I'll post an updated pic of them then


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Congrats! I'll look forward to seeing the photos.

If you plan to breed them rather than showing them, I personally wouldn't see a difference if they have a little nick in their fins anyway. If they are of good stock and will produce quality offspring, you're all set. 

I've seen some pretty stressed ones with transport injuries being shown at the ACA conventions, and they still do fairly well if they are quality stock.


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## ezeke1 (May 1, 2007)

I added these new babies last Friday and they are eating right out of the box  These pics were taken just a couple of days ago but since then I made the dummy mistake of stirring up my gravel bed to add new driftwood thus stressing the heck out of them. Hopefully they will recover.

These are the new babies.


This is a pic of the new setup


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## Tsquare (Feb 9, 2007)

All I see is the dreaded red X.
Gene


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## ezeke1 (May 1, 2007)

Thanks, darn


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## Muirner (Jan 9, 2007)

They look great!!!


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## JanS (Apr 14, 2004)

Very nice! You must be thrilled to finally have them in your own tank.


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## Tsquare (Feb 9, 2007)

Awsome looking Discus. I had 4 about 25 years ago in a BB 55gal. They paired of and spawned several times but ate the eggs before they hatched. Back then it was diffcult to raise them away from the parents.Good luck with yours.
Gene


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## argblarg (Aug 10, 2006)

Nice looking Discus.


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

Jan, golden leopards do not have stress bars. This is the trait of goldens. You can only see faint lines on the body if you put them in strong lighting.

Ezeke, these are nice buys. IMHO, it could be better but the price would be exponential.  
What to look for in discus is the perfect round shape, red iris, no obvious deformity.

Your discus although nice is a bit arrowheaded shaped, meaning the head profile is a bit pointy and the dorsal and anal fins do not make a perfect round profile. The pointy profile can be improved with intense feeding and care as your discus is still small but up to a point[it's max potential].

This variant is still quite new and constantly being improved, especially the spots and shape.
The recent Aquarama 2007 in Singapore was host to a great selection of show quality discus.
Here's a link http://www.discus.com.my/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=489&start=0 for the first prize winner pics including the grand champion.


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## ezeke1 (May 1, 2007)

standoyo said:


> Jan, golden leopards do not have stress bars. This is the trait of goldens. You can only see faint lines on the body if you put them in strong lighting.
> 
> Ezeke, these are nice buys. IMHO, it could be better but the price would be exponential.
> What to look for in discus is the perfect round shape, red iris, no obvious deformity.
> ...


Stan, I very much appreciate your comments. My golden LSS have been in my planted tank for weeks now and they're eating very well. The larger of the two is more arrow shaped as you pointed out while the other is much rounder. It's difficult to tell given the pictures I posted however.

They're certainly beautiful, but recently the larger one's forehead has darken somewhat. I do not know if it's just trying to blend in with the plants and darker surroundings but it concerns me. You may be able to see it here. The fact that they eat heavily leads me to believe they're not sick.



I bought a second 65gal which I intend to keep barebottom so that I can grow them out better. Of course it's another reason to buy more discus too 

If you don't mind perhaps you can comment on these two discus. I am planning to buy this pair of the spotted face leopard snakeskins. They're both 4.5" and one has a fairly round body. The second one looks pointy in the face and from the screenshot, its difficult to make out the fish's proportions. The beautiful spots and color has me sold though.

First baby


Second baby


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

Hi David,

Disclaimer: Being a discus keeper for 6years+, my comment will be as neutral as can be as I don't sell discus for a living and this is strictly my constructive opinion based on the pics-

Ok, with that out of the way...

By saying 4.5"-I presume mouth tip to tail tip.
So both these discus has a bit of growing to do to reach an ideal 6"++

Baby one
For starters, the spots are fantastic especially on the face.
Some may even turn out to be rings when it's full grown.
Amber eyes[red better], 
Tail clear with no tan colour.
Not skinny-ok smooth forehead.

Ok bad news-
•The eye proportion is big compared to the body-a little stunted.-good news- it's not genetic.
•There's a kink on the 'nose' area indicating major illness sometime during it's lifetime- not genetic
•A little double chinned.-indicating this is of the egg shaped discus that's been overfed when young.-genetic
•A slightly humpy forehead. Will get bigger with age and if overfed-genetic
•The spines on the anal and dorsal are spaced too far apart-[genetic and environment?]
•A little arrowheaded. '<' better to be '(' for the head profile.

Overall, there's some genetic problems with this fish that said I am an extremely picky hobbyist would not part cash for this fella despite the fantastic spots. 
IMHO it's a cull BUT... if you are into breeding and need the genes for the spotty face, you can buy it for breeding purposes.

Baby two
Similar as one but a profile shot would be better. Less spots on the belly as one.

Conclusion, if the price is exorbitant-I advise you to pass. If it's cheap as in slightly more than turquoise, blue diamond prices, then go for it! BUY!

If I were to rate it-it would only get a 5/10, with TLC it may get bumped to a 6/10 

[If you have things you want to ask in private please pm me]


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

This is the pic of the recent 2007 Aquarama Singapore Grandchampion that is a similar strain to the babies you've shown. This fella is of course by no means perfect but is real close. 










[hosted by aquaticquotient]

[fish I can only dream of owning!]


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

Here's some Golden Ring Leopards that were on Display at the Aquarama. Extremely rare and new!


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## ezeke1 (May 1, 2007)

standoyo said:


> This is the pic of the recent 2007 Aquarama Singapore Grandchampion that is a similar strain to the babies you've shown. This fella is of course by no means perfect but is real close.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stan, pm sent 

You're making me drool with these pictures lol


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## ezeke1 (May 1, 2007)

standoyo said:


> Here's some Golden Ring Leopards that were on Display at the Aquarama. Extremely rare and new!


Unbelievable discus....Any idea who sells these?


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## standoyo (Aug 25, 2005)

Haha David, hook line and sinker... not me but hint hint [same guy that owns the Grandchamp!]


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## Dracolique (May 28, 2007)

That champion discus has one of the best overall shapes I have ever seen. It looks to have been treated to a golden-spoon lifestyle, and the body/fin blending is gorgeous. 

I am not familiar with all of the criteria that they use at the different shows around the world... However, I am surprised that it won the grand prize with those obvious blemishes on its tail, the slight seperation of the anal fin and the mildly bumpy nature of its forehead.


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## jazzlvr123 (Apr 29, 2007)

hello, i have purchased two GLSS they are looking at me while i type this, i paid $165 per discus, but if your into discus like me they are definitely worth it!! i got them from tony at sunrise tropicals


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## ezeke1 (May 1, 2007)

jazzlvr123 said:


> hello, i have purchased two GLSS they are looking at me while i type this, i paid $165 per discus, but if your into discus like me they are definitely worth it!! i got them from tony at sunrise tropicals


got pics? 

He recently informed me of the glss stock as well but the juvies were 2.5". Both of mine have been in my tank for a month now and they've grown alot. Plus they're piggies and aren't shy at all


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## jazzlvr123 (Apr 29, 2007)

i can get you a pic sure thing, ill post it when im off work this evening, i bought mine a year ago, they grew extremely fast, mainly becuase i feed the little pigs 3 times a day and my water if perfect for discus (soft warm RO water, low ph, and 0 toxins) if you want to avoid black peppering on such a nice discus keep them at at least 85 degrees, high temperatures also helps their immune system, you probably already know this but i thought id give you an FYI just encase


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