# Hard Metalic/ Soft Water



## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

As I was picking up some new plants from my LFS and swapping out the ones that had
that deffiency problem I was having a conversation there with one of the guys there that know more about the plants. And as I was explaining to him that my plants kept
growing out these dark brown strings even tho theres all the nutrients there he said
its due to my water being very hard and metalic. Does this make any sense?
He suggested when doing water changes to add in the distilled water that you can
get a gallon for a quarter. But I didnt know if that was appropriate for my fish or plants or if thats even the problem.
I always thought plants did better in hard water, should I do as he suggested.
Also how would my goldfish handle it being use to hard water then switching over to soft water?


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## mikenas102 (Feb 8, 2006)

Different plants like different water conditions. Get yourself a KH/GH test kit and find out where you're at now before you go changing things.


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## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

mikenas102 said:


> Different plants like different water conditions. Get yourself a KH/GH test kit and find out where you're at now before you go changing things.


Isint KH/GH on standard test strips?
They say Alkanity (KH) or something like that. Would that work?
Or is there seperate test kits?


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## mikenas102 (Feb 8, 2006)

Yes you can get strips that test for KH and GH however the test strips are generally considered not as accurate as other tests. They will give you ballpark number though.


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## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

This is my paramiters:

NitrAte: 10
NitrIte: 0
Chlorine: 0
Hardness (KH): 300 Very Hard
Alk: 300
PH: 6.5
Ammonia: 0

So with that said what does that tell us might be the issue?

I guess I can pick one of these up while im at it:

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewI...s_Test_Kits_Alkalinity_(KH)_Kits~vendor~.html


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

The first issue is that you are unlikely to have a KH of 300 ppm and a pH of 6.5 at the same time. If those are accurate you have a substance or substances in the water that are strongly affecting the KH or pH, other than carbonates and CO2. The next issue is that you asked the LFS salesman for information he knew very little about (in my opinion). If I had been you I would have been very tempted to ask him what the Rockwell Hardness of the metallic water was. In other words, "metallic water" is meaningless. There are health standards that all water companies have to follow that dictate the maximum amount of any metal that can be dissolved in the water. If that metal is iron that is one thing, if it is copper that is an entirely different thing. I'm guessing there is some iron in your water - whoop de do!! You can easily check that by looking at the sides of your house or the fences where lawn sprinklers overspray on them. If you have a lot of iron those areas will be a reddish brown color. Still, that doesn't harm the plants.

If you have adequate CO2 in the water, adequate nitrates, phosphates, potassium and trace elements, your water will grow plants, if you are supplying adequate light too.


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## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

As of today this is my test:

NitrAte: 20
NitrIte: 0
Hardness: 150
Chlorine: 0
Alk (KH): about 180
PH: 7.2

I use the following:
30 Gallon
Eco Complete Substrate
2 DIY co2
Co2 Indicator- (Green)
82 Watts Light
Dose KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4 and CSM+B

This is a pic of what happends to my plants:





and this is my tank:


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## Bert H (Mar 2, 2004)

If your tests are accurate, your kh is around 10. That is my water as well. You won't be able to grow the 'softer water' plants, but you shouldn't have problems otherwise, assuming you give the plants what they need. I agree with what Hoppy said regarding the knowledge level of the lfs help.

It looks like bba to me, which often comes from unstable CO2 levels, which is possible with diy. Keep in mind long term stability is onen of the primary things to keep algae at bay.


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## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

^ Yea im eventually going to get a presurized system but for now every water change
which is every sunday I'll switch out a new batch of DIY Yeast... That way it keeps it stable.
Do you suggest I add a 3rd diffuser of Co2 or do you think that would be too much?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

I think the best way to keep DIY CO2 levels steady or nearly steady is to use multiple bottles, but stagger the start times, so only one bottle slows down production at a time. Two bottles might be enough for that size tank, but 3 wouldn't hurt anything.


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## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

So you dont think by my method of changing out the Mix every sunday
will keep it steady enough? Also do you suggest keeping the CO2 Higher
or Lower for 82 watts of light on a 29 gallon?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

When I used DIY CO2 the bubble rate would start very low for a newly started bottle, then gradually build up to a maximum for a few days, then slowly decrease to nothing after a couple of weeks. If I had used two bottles started a week apart I think I would have had close to constant CO2. You have 2.8 watts per gallon, which is far from low light level. You should try hard to keep the CO2 as stable as you can.


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## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

Well my batch usually slows down 2 days after a water change.
So recently I just decided to switch it out every water change and it keeps it pretty stable.
But your saying making 2 bottles a few days apart and using the T Valve would be best for consistancy?


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## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Since DIY CO2 from a bottle with yeast, sugar and water in it is not a steady source of CO2, but one that changes as the yeast grows, you will get more consistency in the amount of CO2 provided to the tank if you have more than one bottle, and the bottles have different start dates. Obviously, if you had 10 bottles, started one day apart, changing one bottle every day, you would probably have very nearly constant CO2 production, but that would be impractical to maintain, and would produce too much CO2. Of course the bottles would have to be connected in parallel with check valves isolating each bottle. 

With high light intensity it is important to have the CO2 concentration in the water be the same every single day to avoid triggering algae to start to grow.


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## Mr. Fish (Oct 24, 2007)

Thats why its best to just invest in a pressurized right?


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