# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Under gravel heating cable, is it worth the money?



## Jeremy S (Apr 9, 2006)

How much does under gravel heating cable help your plants? Is it worth buying? Thanks.


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## Jeremy S (Apr 9, 2006)

How much does under gravel heating cable help your plants? Is it worth buying? Thanks.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

This topic has been beat to death and is as polarizing as religion or gun control. Right now I would say that the proponents of no cables are winning the war.

I myself could never see putting in an expensive component that I would only use about six months of the year (due to heating issues) and that seems to fail quite often. IMHO you would be better off spending the money on more or better lights or a CO2 system.

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## Jeremy S (Apr 9, 2006)

Are you supposed to use under gravel heating cables by themselves or do you have to use them with your regular heaters too?


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## m.lemay (Jan 9, 2005)

I agree with Rex. I think that they may be worth it if you are planning a low light, slow growing, low maintenance tank and you want this thing to be as no-fuss as possible. My understanding of the benefits of heating cables is that they are supposed to increase the life of your substrate by keeping oxygenated water in the substrate. Replanting disturbs the substrate sufficiently to achieve that effect. It seems to me that if you are replanting often the roots will get all tangled up in the cables. Who here wants that. I have high light and the plants grow like crazy and I prune and replant and rearrange every 2-3 weeks. I just can't see investing that kind of money into something thats gonna make replanting a nightmare.









75 gal,pressurized CO2 with controller, 3WPG PC lighting,gravel/flourite 50/50 substrate, Filstar XP3, GH=7,KH=5,PH=6.9,NO3=10ppm, PO4=1-2ppm,K=20ppm+/-, FE=.1ppm


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

Jeremy,

It depends on your tank. You can use them as the only heater or also use a tank heater. But they have a much higher failure rate than a tank heater. I would hazard to guess that about half the people that have used them have had them fail.

And I agree with Marcel. As much as I pull up and replant I would hate for the roots to get tangled in the cables.

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## imported_ryuken168 (Feb 2, 2003)

They are not worth it for the price. It would sux to pull it out if it fails.
The heat from the cable helps stimulate the roots for faster growth.
It does work since I'm doing a cheaper version of it.
I was able to heat my 75 gal tank substrate for $25 bucks.
First I went to eBay and brought 15'of Wrap-on electric pipe heating cable at 18 watts w/ thermostat control. Cost $15.00
I then attach it under the area of the tank where the plants are. Under I mean the outside bottom of the tank away from water.
I then brought a half inch thick sheet of styrofoam to sandwich the heating cable between the glass and the foam.
I have a metal stand so space was not a problem.

So far it works great.

The Collector


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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

Heating the tank bottom from the underside has always seemed to make so much more sense than burying cables in the substrate. However, I have heard reports of this technique breaking the glass on the bottom of the tank. Of course there are never any substantial details, so that one could evaluate it critically, just a boogyman story. Anyway, I suppose its worth cautioning that the glass should not be getting hot to the touch. The glass bottom of many tanks is made from glass thats been heat treated to increase its strength. Its under considerable internal stress, and adding hot spots may be risky.


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

I have cracked tank bottoms by applying heat to the bottom side. It was back before I had aquariums and was rasing herps. I cracked a bunch of tanks that way.

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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

Care to elaborate? How did you heat the bottom, and do you know how hot it was getting?


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

I was using root mats, which are low wattage mats used to start seedlings in the nursery business. I would say that the bottoms of the tanks were getting up to about 80-85 F. Room temp was running about 60-65 f as I recall. It happened more with smaller tanks than it did larger tanks. And note that these pads were not in direct contact with the glass. I would be very leary of placing a heat source against the glass. Glass is not a substance that takes heat differential well.

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## gsmollin (Feb 3, 2003)

How much do the buried heating cables heat the substrate? 20 degrees F sounds like a lot, although its still surprising that it breaks the glass.


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## b3dlam (Feb 1, 2003)

Jeremy S,



> quote:
> 
> How much does under gravel heating cable help your plants? Is it worth buying? Thanks.


Heating cables are certainly a contentious subject with a lot of people. In my humble opinion, cables do assist in the stablility of the substrate in a planted tank. I am currently using the Dupla heating coils in my 8ftx2ftx2ft tank.

Heating coils are useful in the following situations:
1. Your room temperature is 'relatively' low in order to switch the heater on. If you have the tank in a warm room, it will never switch on, thus the effect of the coils are not experienced.
2. Where the substrate you are using is relatively thick. (i.e. more than 3inches). 
3. Laterite as an additive to the gravel.

Some points to ponder:
1. I have never heard of people with heating coils suffer from anerobic regions in their substrate. There will be areas under rocks and driftwood that will be more prone to anerobic regions. 
2. I have never heard of plant roots being tangled up in the cables. I have grown Apongenton undulatus, various cryptos, H. corymbosa...etc. and have never had them tangle in the cables. Some of the roots have measured over 2ft long......

To answer your first question, heating coils can help your tank, but to what degree is dependent on various conditions (outlined above). 
Your second question is much harder to answer. If you plan to totally replant/rescape your tank regularly (i.e. more than once a year), the benefits of the coils will be questionable. It is a fairly expensive item, which makes it out of reach for people with a lot of tanks. If the costs are not prohibitive for YOU, and the conditions met above, the coils is worth buying.

For a more scientific outline of the benefits take a look at this very informative site: George Booth's site

If you want to see more sparks fly, replace the word "heating coils" with "pH Controllers" in your original question...









hth


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## rudedog (Feb 6, 2003)

Isn't the high failure rate of undergravel heaters partly due to the fact that many people install undergravel heaters which are designed for terrainiums and not aquariums (and ultimately cheaper)?

rudedog


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## JamesHoftiezer (Feb 2, 2003)

I have a under gravel heater on my tank, but I have not turned it on. Right now, my tank is growing out of control, but then it is also only 3 months old.

I installed the cable heater because it was cheap and easy to put in now. Difficult to add later. Info I have seen details how the cables can have a significant effect on older substrates. In a year or two if things drop off I'll turn it on and see if it has an impact.

James Hoftiezer


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## IUnknown (Feb 24, 2004)

Rex Grigg, would an acrylic aquarium have been better? Or would you have had to worry about the plastic melting?


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

That's a good question. One would have to wonder if the heat would even be able to do the job seeing how thick most acrylic tanks are. It has a pretty high melting point so that should not be a problem.

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## AJB (Feb 3, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Isn't the high failure rate of undergravel heaters partly due to the fact that many people install undergravel heaters which are designed for terrainiums and not aquariums (and ultimately cheaper)?
> rudedog


Do you mean outside the tank? I can't help but say that those things are not meant to be submersed or be inside a tank and that they are made for heating from the outside. Putting one of those in water would at the very least flip circuit breakers, and touching it before it was unplugged would then procced to shock the crap out of you.









my tanks


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2003)

I've beaten up on this device beefer, and I'm-a gonna do it again.

I've had them, Dupla, Sandpoint and DIY cables. I've used them for many years. PITA all the way around. I wasted a lot of time and money with these damn things over the years, I've earn the right to say they stink.

FWIW, I had far more anaerobic regions due to cables roasting plant roots(Apono's and Crinums) and causing a build up of dead organic material caught under the gravel. Gravel without any oganic material will not go anaerobic. You have to have a certain amount of organic material to produce H2S.

Now back to the sucker oriented device.
I can honestly say without any doubt from all the tanks I have them on, they don't cause any significant better growth. I cannot see it and never did. I did see some better start ups in one tank I think I might be able attribute but the tank was on an enclosed porch where it was pretty cool. If cables work, they will work only in a fairly cool place. 

I also simply will never need one to grow an Amano/Dutch/or any style of plant tank.
Does it help? I sure cannot say if it does or not. Maybe if you believe enough and do positive affirmations("Yes, these 300$ cable are making my plants grow!"-(Repeat 1000 times)) you _might_ see some difference.

The theory is counter to Tropica's research and my own. They produce flow rates that are too high for optimal growth. Diffusion alone and the action of the dynamic root systems pumping and removing things from this region is plenty even in 20cm+ deep substrates like some of the areas in my tanks are.

I used a reptile mat. They work okay vs the cables. The temp is not allowed to get nearly as hot since the high specific heat of water is keeping the tank glass cool.
You can also add or buy pad with controller for the temp. I would recommend this device since they are cheap and easy to add. 

But in the end save your money. This is the last item anyone should get. 

I got some KH2PO4 I'll sell ya that will do more for the tank than these will, I won't even charge over 50$.

I don't know, some folks really like to have every bell and whistle. I like a basic, nice relatively inexpensive, systems that have the essentials and that work. Less to check, hide from view, pay for, maintain and to go wrong. 

pH controllers, solenoids, Check valves, heating cables, rotting straw......none of this stuff is needed and never was but folks were led to believe so. Perhaps in some cases you might have a call for one of these, but none I've seen to accomplish and nice looking planted tank. There are far larger issues. 

I've been down these roads a few times. George and I discussed this in the past on more than one occassion. George is great, I really like him. He's done a great service to everyone interested in plants. Anyone like that is way cool in my book. We split hairs/har hars on very few things; this is one of them.

I'm free from the bondage of cables.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## b3dlam (Feb 1, 2003)

Tom,

I am not sure how the cables can 'ruin' a tank. The cables do get quite warm, and hence there is a requirement to choose the correct wattage for a particular sized tank. If you find the cables are on 24/7, it will probably burn the roots as it is struggling to keep the water column (where the temperature probe is) warm.
The hystersis of the temperature control warms the water slightly above the set temperature then switches off. This behaviour ensures that the cables are not on all the time IF you have chosen an appropriately powered cable.



> quote:
> 
> I can honestly say without any doubt from all the tanks I have them on, they don't cause any significant better growth. I cannot see it and never did. I did see some better start ups in one tank I think I might be able attribute but the tank was on an enclosed porch where it was pretty cool. If cables work, they will work only in a fairly cool place.


I can certainly understand your views here. But I imagine it would be very difficult to measure 'better growth'. The effects of cables can only be realised in certain situations...as you have also eluded to.



> quote:
> 
> But in the end save your money. This is the last item anyone should get.


I agree here. Aspects such as lighting and CO2 and fertilisers have much more effect than the cables. Its only IF you have the funds to afford this equipment then you would consider buying it. Its exactly the same principle as pH controllers. In itself, it does not help the growth of plants. But it makes things easier and IF you can afford it, go for it.



> quote:
> 
> pH controllers, solenoids, Check valves, heating cables, rotting straw......none of this stuff is needed and never was but folks were led to believe so. Perhaps in some cases you might have a call for one of these, but none I've seen to accomplish and nice looking planted tank. There are far larger issues.


I agree to an extent. I liken it to buying cars. The airbag, abs, airconditioning options arent really necessary when you think about the main purpose of a car (i.e. to take you from A to B). Those equipment will however, give you a safety 'net' and make life a bit easier.

my two cents...


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