# is this normal betta behavior?



## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

Hi! I'm the hobbyist beginner from this thread about aphids and this thread about siesta schedule. I haven't quite managed the green water situation but I'm hoping it'll slowly go away as the new floating plants start to thrive again. (otherwise I will remove the wood as a next step)

Anyway, my betta has been behaving strangely for about two days now. He's normally a super social and in-your-face kind of guy... but now he has been hiding a lot. Like hiding really well and he won't come out of hiding as soon as I approach as he usually does. In fact, he stays hidden near the bottom of the bowl and inbetween the plants. I'll post a photo in the next comment.

I checked the parameters from the top water of the bowl and they're fine/same as always... the ammonia is between 0-0.25ppm (looks pretty yellow to me but not quite as yellow as the printed color example on the test kit)


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

here he is hiding (black circle near the bottom of the photo)











and then this is a general photo for reference... he's not visible in this photo


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

What's the temperature? Is he eating?
When my fish starts to hide, it is stress. A water change usually helps.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> What's the temperature? Is he eating?
> When my fish starts to hide, it is stress. A water change usually helps.


The temperature is at 25C (77F)

I haven't tried feeding him since he started hiding two days ago... I don't usually worry about feeding him because there's so much life in that bowl I figure anything I give him will be a supplement lol

I'll be changing water tomorrow after the water I've collected has had a day to evaporate the chlorine


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

here's another question, if I want to do a huge water change, like as close as I can get to 100%, I should drip-acclimate the fish, right? ... and is it a bad idea to do such a big water change? I'm just tired of this darn cloudiness...


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Many Bettas sold in stores these days are liable to come down with disease.
His illness could have nothing to do with water conditions.
Water change is up to you.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Try to feed him too. The little daphnia here and there isn't enough for him. Also, you're not adding any nutrients into the el natural system by not adding fish food.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

I got him to come out by stupidly accidentally pouring way too much of the sinking food into the bowl and then making a huge fuss as I started to scoop it out (relatively successfully actually), using a strainer and getting most of what didn't sink, in any case I will be doing a big water change today and tomorrow ... he came out swimming super slowly, and I got to get a good look at him and his fins look perfect and so does his body color, shape, etc, but his face seems a little gray, his eyes look ok to me too. I'll be quarantining him shortly...


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

he actually looks pretty good to me but the behavior is weird

-as soon as I quarantined him (same water) he rushed to hide under the salvinia which I put in there because he loves it
-then I noticed he was out and about doing recon and harrassing tiny snails which came with the plant…. so I tried to give him half a “betta treat” … and he’s just left it there
-he did start coming to me as he normally does but like slower if that makes any sense

honestly the only weird thing is his speed and sudden shyness and not eating... like he stays super still like he's suddenly afraid of me... I think I see "stress stripes" but I'm not sure that's a thing?
I’m leaning more towards “he’s upset because of the water too” but what are your thoughts?


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

gabi.loraine said:


> I'll be changing water tomorrow after the water I've collected has had a day to evaporate the chlorine


May have missed this in one of your previous threads, but are you sure your water supply has chlorine and not chloramine? If it's chloramine it won't evaporate out, I could see that being stressful to the betta.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

jatcar95 said:


> May have missed this in one of your previous threads, but are you sure your water supply has chlorine and not chloramine? If it's chloramine it won't evaporate out, I could see that being stressful to the betta.


I'm unaware of any chloramine in the water, I'm asking the fish store if they know... as far as I'm concerned everyone just leaves their water out.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

He looks pretty healthy. Maybe the temperature got lower than 77F. Is it warmer outside? Maybe put him outside.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> He looks pretty healthy. Maybe the temperature got lower than 77F. Is it warmer outside? Maybe put him outside.


he doesn’t look a little grayish to you?


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

I don't know his original color. He might need warmer temperatures like 79F-80F to perk up his metabolism.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> I don't know his original color. He might need warmer temperatures like 79F-80F to perk up his metabolism.


I think you were dead-on about the temperature... I just turned the AC off a couple of hours ago and he's already back to his center-of-attention ways.
We're having some extra hot days and I had it all the way up so I wouldn't have to turn on the ones in the rooms because those are too noisy! Silly me.
I'm still doing a huge water change because I'm sick and tired of not being able to see my plants. So I'll take advantage of already having him secluded to drip acclimate him to clean water (is that a thing?)


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Hmm. How can you heat fish bowl? I think you can get a heating pad you can put under the bowl to give it some warmth. It’s used for pet reptiles.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

mistergreen said:


> Hmm. How can you heat fish bowl? I think you can get a heating pad you can put under the bowl to give it some warmth. It’s used for pet reptiles.


I think a heater could still work as well, it might just be at a weird angle and only attached with one suction cup


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> Hmm. How can you heat fish bowl? I think you can get a heating pad you can put under the bowl to give it some warmth. It’s used for pet reptiles.


lol I'm definitely not heating anything except food in Panama. I'll just be more reasonable with the AC.
I've had him for like 6 weeks and he had been fine so far. I hadn't realized the temperature went too low for him, but of course in the back of my mind, I had.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

gabi.loraine said:


> I'm still doing a huge water change because I'm sick and tired of not being able to see my plants. So I'll take advantage of already having him secluded to drip acclimate him to clean water (is that a thing?)


Beautiful plants. I would do more frequent 20% water changes till it is clear instead of big ones. Get a small bottle of Prime. You need a little and it last long. Dripping your water back in after a water change is a good idea. Eliminate any shock of sudden water parameters. And keep the fish in the bowl......


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

SchalkR said:


> Beautiful plants. I would do more frequent 20% water changes till it is clear instead of big ones. Get a small bottle of Prime. You need a little and it last long. Dripping your water back in after a water change is a good idea. Eliminate any shock of sudden water parameters. And keep the fish in the bowl......


AAAAAAAND little dude has fin rot!!! I’m going to read a little more but any insight??? Looking up Prime right now.

ok edited to add… I just looked up Prime, is this compatible with the Walstad method NPT?


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

Update.
I did the huge like 90% water change because I couldn't be patient any longer. I wanted a clear bowl.
In the meantime, I had the fish quarantined per the conversation and pictures above.
Once I started seeing the fish spring right back to normal with the temperature adjustment, I decided to put him back. So I did drip acclimation with clean bowl water into his quarantine water (which was just the green water the bowl had before), and I put him back in the bowl last night. He swam everywhere and looked good to me.
This is what the bowl looks like right now. I intend to add more water.









This morning I noticed he was back in hiding. However, I teased him and he came up to the surface to eat and he looked fine. Then this afternoon I noticed the little hole in one of his fins. He's super active and looks good otherwise so it was hard to even get a photo but I'm pretty sure it's fin rot? I'm going to do some research right now but I appreciate your input and recommendations.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Seachem Prime just neutralize any chlorines. I have been using it for decades.






Seachem - Prime







www.seachem.com





It won't harm your Walstad method. It's just for your fish. I once forgot to add in a dechlorinator. Poor fish were slimy and not well. Chlorines are very bad for fish.


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## SchalkR (12 mo ago)

Keep an eye on it, but don't worry to much. 5 Quick and Easy Steps for Treating Fin Rot in Aquarium Fish


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

The hole in the fin is not too bad. It's not fin rot. You would see fungus around the rot.
He could have torn it on a hardscape or it's a sign of low nutrition. Better protein food could fix it. You said he had not eaten in a few days, it could be that.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> The hole in the fin is not too bad. It's not fin rot. You would see fungus around the rot.
> He could have torn it on a hardscape or it's a sign of low nutrition. Better protein food could fix it. You said he had not eaten in a few days, it could be that.


if you were me would you still quarantine him and do like aquarium salt, or just improve his feeding to see how it goes?


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

gabi.loraine said:


> I just looked up Prime, is this compatible with the Walstad method NPT?


Prime is a chlorine/chloramine detoxifier, plus it (temporarily) detoxifies ammonia and can neutralize metals. I think a lot of us probably use it. NPT doesn't mean you aren't allowed to use _any _chemicals 



gabi.loraine said:


> little dude has fin rot!


I think stress can lead to fin rot, often because of unideal water parameters. Maybe check your ammonia and nitrites. Could be he was stressed from the temperature too - keep an eye on it now that it's warmer and see if it gets better. I'm not sure what the best treatments are (especially in a planted tank), others can chime in there.

Edit because I missed the post with the picture of the fin rot: it looks verrry minimal at this point. I would not quarantine, it would probably be more stressful than just keeping him in the bowl. Just watch your parameters and his fins to make sure it doesn't get worse.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

jatcar95 said:


> Prime is a chlorine/chloramine detoxifier, plus it (temporarily) detoxifies ammonia and can neutralize metals. I think a lot of us probably use it. NPT doesn't mean you aren't allowed to use _any _chemicals
> 
> 
> I think stress can lead to fin rot, often because of unideal water parameters. Maybe check your ammonia and nitrites. Could be he was stressed from the temperature too - keep an eye on it now that it's warmer and see if it gets better. I'm not sure what the best treatments are (especially in a planted tank), others can chime in there.
> ...


Thanks for all of your notes! I did check my parameters and they were all perfect, I'm thinking the temperature was the issue. We'll see...


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Clean water and food are all he needs. You did a water change so that's covered.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

update… the fin is tearing more and the edges don’t look great


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

I can see thinning in parts of the fins too. It's nutrition. Feed him every day until the fins are back in shape. It's the downside to these fancy-fin fishes. It takes a lot of energy to grow.

You might need to bring the bowl outside to warm up. Betta's metabolism isn't made for a temperature less than 78F.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> I can see thinning in parts of the fins too. It's nutrition. Feed him every day until the fins are back in shape. It's the downside to these fancy-fin fishes. It takes a lot of energy to grow.
> 
> You might need to bring the bowl outside to warm up. Betta's metabolism isn't made for a temperature less than 78F.


I’ll definitely work on his nutrition but there’s no “outside” here 😅 I live in a small apartment with no balcony… I’ll have one at our new place once we move in a couple of months but for now I’ll just try to keep it as warm as humanly tolerable 😂😂😂

ETA
I do have a thermometer in the bowl and I check it all the time, it’s never been under 24°C (75°F) as far as I can tell but I’ll continue to monitor it… it’s normally around 26–27°C (78–80°F)


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Maybe moving it away from AC vents will help with the temperature. If your pet store sells small live worms or insects that bettas can eat, that will help give him good nutrition. I'd stay away from bloodworms (frozen or dried). Something about them causes fish to overeat and have intestinal problems.


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## Aliceiii (11 mo ago)

gabi.loraine said:


> lol I'm definitely not heating anything except food in Panama. I'll just be more reasonable with the AC.
> I've had him for like 6 weeks and he had been fine so far. I hadn't realized the temperature went too low for him, but of course in the back of my mind, I had.


I've thought all pet fish need a water heater in an aquarium. Tropical fish are used to warm. Unless you are living in a hot place. I'd recommend you get a thermometer to track the water temperature. I'd recommend checking this review 9 Best Aquarium Thermometers Reviewed in Detail (Spring 2021) . I found it helpful.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

. 

(I don't know how to delete my comment)


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> Maybe moving it away from AC vents will help with the temperature. If your pet store sells small live worms or insects that bettas can eat, that will help give him good nutrition. I'd stay away from bloodworms (frozen or dried). Something about them causes fish to overeat and have intestinal problems.


You know... he's smart or something... I have those bloodworm "betta treats" and he doesn't usually eat them. He prefers the flake food. ...I need to get him something juicier for sure though... any online recommendations of food I can order? (I will still check for availability locally but I'm not super optimistic)


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

Aliceiii said:


> I've thought all pet fish need a water heater in an aquarium. Tropical fish are used to warm. Unless you are living in a hot place. I'd recommend you get a thermometer to track the water temperature. I'd recommend checking this review 9 Best Aquarium Thermometers Reviewed in Detail (Spring 2021) . I found it helpful.


Thanks for meaning well but I don't think you read the comments right above yours...


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## britintexas1959 (10 mo ago)

gabi.loraine said:


> Hi! I'm the hobbyist beginner from this thread about aphids and this thread about siesta schedule. I haven't quite managed the green water situation but I'm hoping it'll slowly go away as the new floating plants start to thrive again. (otherwise I will remove the wood as a next step)
> 
> Anyway, my betta has been behaving strangely for about two days now. He's normally a super social and in-your-face kind of guy... but now he has been hiding a lot. Like hiding really well and he won't come out of hiding as soon as I approach as he usually does. In fact, he stays hidden near the bottom of the bowl and inbetween the plants. I'll post a photo in the next comment.
> 
> I checked the parameters from the top water of the bowl and they're fine/same as always... the ammonia is between 0-0.25ppm (looks pretty yellow to me but not quite as yellow as the printed color example on the test kit)


OR there is this alternative; yes in nature the Betta exists in small pools of water, but these are NOT nature bred! I had the same issues, so I got a small 5 gallon tank with with a small, low flow HOB filter, small LED lighting and natural aquatic vegetation. After acclimation, the problems disappeared! Almost ALL store bought fish are not bred in in their native habitat so this has to be STRONGLY considered with ANY tropical fish set up, and adjusted accordingly, especially with Bettas as they can be VERY sensitive to their environment.


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## Aliceiii (11 mo ago)

gabi.loraine said:


> Thanks for meaning well but I don't think you read the comments right above yours...


Oh! Sorry! You're right 😔


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

gabi.loraine said:


> Update.
> I did the huge like 90% water change because I couldn't be patient any longer. I wanted a clear bowl.
> In the meantime, I had the fish quarantined per the conversation and pictures above.
> Once I started seeing the fish spring right back to normal with the temperature adjustment, I decided to put him back. So I did drip acclimation with clean bowl water into his quarantine water (which was just the green water the bowl had before), and I put him back in the bowl last night. He swam everywhere and looked good to me.
> ...


When I was showing and breeding bettas I used to do 100% water changes every other day. High nitrogen levels (amonia) will burn the tips of the fins, burn holes between the spines, and slow the development of the fins. While I had multiple bettas i was using Reverse Osmosis water which initially. With Kent RO Right. Later treated with a chemical mix to reduce cost. But for beautiful bettas water changes are necessary.


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## jatcar95 (Oct 30, 2019)

TropTrea said:


> When I was showing and breeding bettas I used to do 100% water changes every other day. High nitrogen levels (amonia) will burn the tips of the fins, burn holes between the spines, and slow the development of the fins. While I had multiple bettas i was using Reverse Osmosis water which initially. With Kent RO Right. Later treated with a chemical mix to reduce cost. But for beautiful bettas water changes are necessary.


While I don't doubt you've had good results with lots of water changes, I've seen (and owned) plenty of examples of beautiful bettas kept in low-maintenance tanks. 

Do you know what the water changes are for? In the case of many NPTs, there will be no ammonia/nitrite after the tank becomes established. Water changes aren't bad and are obviously sometimes needed, but daily/weekly water changes aren't really the "el-natural" style.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

right, and I have been checking the water parameters and they are fine... my only concern about the water is the friggin opaque algae which I'm about to give up and remove the wood... and of course now I'm concerned about the fish's nutrition :🤦:

do you guys order live food online?


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Fluval bug bite is good. It has black soldier fly larvae in it. I think they make it for bettas, the size of the pellet for bettas.

Another quality food is Repashy. You have to mix boiling water into the gel food powder. Once it gels, you can cut it into portioned pieces for the betta. You can freeze any extra. Get the 'Grub Pie' one which has black soldier fly larvae in it as well. You can buy them on Amazon or on their website.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

Hi! ...Update... 

I've been feeding him as best as I can but I feel like he only eats when I'm not looking! He lets the food sink and sometimes doesn't follow it immediately. Then he seems to be hiding a lot again but it might be him eating the food he let sink? Or hunting? It's hard to see through the opaque green water still. I did take the wood out but I'm just giving it time to see if it clears by itself and I'm doing some small water changes like weekly or less. I'll admit I left a little piece of wood that I can still take out. I've unfortunately also had to suspend the siesta schedule because I'd been doing it with the blinds and I haven't been at home to do it, so it's sunlight almost all day here. 

With regards to food, I ordered the Repashy and also the Fluval Bug Bites and luckily I bought it in flakes AND pellets, because he only eats the flakes, I think the pellets might be too big for him, he's still so tiny. I don't think he likes the Repashy but it might be too soon to tell because I've only fed it to him twice. Because I'm keeping it in the freezer, I leave it out for a little bit before feeding him so I'm not giving him cold food... but also he's a fish??? Insects aren't warm food!?

And I don't know if I said this already but... a little transparent shrimp appeared in my bowl. He must have come with floating plants I bought over a month ago and is surviving in there. I keep seeing him all the time... should I be worried that the fish hasn't gotten it? I think it's too big and fast for the fish lol, obviously I'm glad to have it. (unless its an indicator that the fish isn't ok bc he should have eaten the shrimp)

Anyway here's a photo of him from a couple of days ago, his fins are not improving but as far as I'm concerned that's the only thing that looks off about him to me.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

This does not look like a sick fish.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

johnwesley0 said:


> This does not look like a sick fish.


Thank you, that’s so good to read. Honestly his fins just look sad to me but I think he’s doing well otherwise.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

Does he look bloated to you or is it just me? Sorry about the rushed photos.
I suspect he’s eating snails or snail eggs? Will he be ok?

If anyone says “overfeeding” I will scream. I’ve been trying to feed him better but I see him like this sometimes and skip a meal or two because it scares me to give him too much food. I was underfeeding and his fins began deteriorating, and now he looks like this often… I wouldn’t say I’m feeding him more than when we noticed the fins. So… underfeeding. But he’s bloated (right?)

Help 💙
(yes I’m changing the water tonight, I’m waiting out the chlorine)


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Looks normal.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

He looks bloated to me…
and last night when I was doing the “massive” water change, he got more bloated and really pale…
For anyone not following the other threads, I just did two 100% water changes to try to rid myself of green water. I think the water got too cold during the drip acclimation and he was stressed from being abducted, but I really noticed the difference today when he got back to normal. He regained his color and is active and flirty today but I’m still worried of course… photos:

last night:

















right now:

















his belly right now:









I’m so sorry about the quality of these photos… I can do better but natural lighting is nearly gone and he’s not cooperating, you know how it goes…


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

now he’s got a little thing that looks like a bubble on a scale


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

Maybe an injury or stress from the 100% water change. Try a topical treatment, catch him and wipe the area with a Q-tip dipped in an antiseptic from the pet store, any antifungal meds, or maybe just a salt solution, or hydrogen peroxide solution.


His stomach looks better. It was full of food that's all. Not bloat.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

mistergreen said:


> It was full of food that's all. Not bloat.


WHAT FOOD! (I said I would scream)


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

Update... as per Dwalstad´s suggestion I did two 100% water changes a couple of months ago and have had clear water since then. Some of the plants remain hole-y and I've added iron which has kept my Salvinia happyish. The shrimp lived in there for a couple of months too until one day I found something that looked like its dead body, I might have dropped the iron too close to him or maybe Fish finally got to him.
I write today bc the fish is again in hiding and extremely defensive. I normally catch him very easily when I do a water change, which isn't super often, maybe once a month so I can reach plants for trimming. I couldn't catch him yesterday so I just did the water change and trimming with him in there. He otherwise looks fine, good color, and from what I can see of his fins they're ok... I've completely turned off the AC to see if that helps him come out today but we've been keeping the temp around here between 75F and 82F normally which is what I believe is good temperature for him?
I checked ammonia and nitrite yesterday and both parameters were fine. I've continued dropping his fav fish food in there just in case but I haven't seen him eat bc he's always hiding. (the Fluval Bug Bites in flakes)
The sun position has shifted so I'm wondering if maybe the light is bothering him suddenly so I've lowered the shade half-way.

Any ideas?

I'll post pics in the next reply bc it's easier to type on the computer and upload pics from my phone lol


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

He may just be associating the plants reaching a certain length with being chased around and removed. These solitary fish are more intelligent than we give them credit for.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

johnwesley0 said:


> He may just be associating the plants reaching a certain length with being chased around and removed. These solitary fish are more intelligent than we give them credit for.


OMG could that be true??? have others experienced this???
he does hate being removed. I normally catch him super easily but he loathes the little cup


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

here’s the photos…









current situation









seen hiding from across the bowl










salvinia… green but small-ish leaves

yesterday I pulled out a lot of this weed, which happens to mostly be near the bottom where hes been hiding (though he does often hide under the salvinia too)









hiding








(ignore the blue net, I don’t even know why it’s there, I never use it)


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

gabi.loraine said:


> OMG could that be true??? have others experienced this???
> he does hate being removed. I normally catch him super easily but he loathes the little cup


These guys have nothing to do all day but observe your movements and habits. If you're looking at the bowl in a certain way and picking up the tools you usually use (the little cup, the tweezers, the scissors) to trim the plants, they are perfectly capable of piecing it all together.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

The plants look pretty healthy. The weed you showed is cladophora algae.
Try to play with the beta with a mirror in front of him to perk him up.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Some of these fish overweight "problems" are due to inactivity and boredom. Your cleaning activities as stimulating exercises for this guy.
If you really want to perk him up, add a female Betta.
BTW, your bowl is very pretty. Nice job!


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

I wouldn't add a female betta into the bowl but in a separate bowl. The girl would get picked on too much.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

We need an update. Have you trimmed the plants? Has he come out from hiding?


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

johnwesley0 said:


> We need an update. Have you trimmed the plants? Has he come out from hiding?


The update was the update, he had been hiding for like two days, I tried to scoop him out as I normally do, but he FLED, so I carefully siphoned inside of a cup/strainer in case he got close (which of course he didn’t because he was hiding) and I trimmed plants… and he’s been hiding and not eating (that I’ve seen) for the past two days. I’ve kept the AC off most of the time and the temp in the tank has remained around 28°C 

Last week I had been spending less time with him so maybe that’s why he’s bored? Also there was a little shrimp in there that perished that might have been a source of entertainment for him… He looks good in the sense that he has good color and isn’t sideways… I’m considering trying to catch him again and checking to see his fins aren’t sticking (since it’s hard to see with him hiding) and if they are then isolate and give him a salt bath for a couple of days?

About him and his personality:
I got him on Jan. 8 and he was itty bitty when I got him, I don’t believe he’s grown a lot. He only eats food in flake form and I think it’s bc of his size.
He’s extremely chill but not lethargic imo. He’s normally active and flirty and looking for people, but not at all aggressive like other bettas I’ve had/seen. He doesn’t jump for food, he doesn’t flare (I haven’t presented him with a mirror bc why would I want that), and he doesn’t constantly harass the snails. He lived with a transparent shrimp for probably 2-3 months and I’m not 100% sure he killed the shrimp bc I didn’t see it happen and I sometimes drop iron for the salvinia. Also I think the shrimp was too fast/big for him to catch.

As I mentioned, water parameters seem fine, but there is weed growing on my plants.

I’d love to get him a tankmate if that could help and he wouldn’t kill it/them/her?
Again thank you @dwalstad for complimenting my bowl. Some plants are doing better than others and I’m always wondering if I should be removing the holey ones or if it’s ok for them to be that way 🤷‍♀️ bc they grow fast.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

gabi.loraine said:


> The update was the update, he had been hiding for like two days, I tried to scoop him out as I normally do, but he FLED, so I carefully siphoned inside of a cup/strainer in case he got close (which of course he didn’t because he was hiding) and I trimmed plants… and he’s been hiding and not eating (that I’ve seen) for the past two days. I’ve kept the AC off most of the time and the temp in the tank has remained around 28°C
> 
> Last week I had been spending less time with him so maybe that’s why he’s bored? Also there was a little shrimp in there that perished that might have been a source of entertainment for him… He looks good in the sense that he has good color and isn’t sideways… I’m considering trying to catch him again and checking to see his fins aren’t sticking (since it’s hard to see with him hiding) and if they are then isolate and give him a salt bath for a couple of days?
> 
> ...


My bad. I missed the part where you said you had already trimmed the plants. Personally, I'd let him rest for a bit before chasing him again. To put this in context, I've just gone through something similar with my _apistogramma borelli, _another fish with lots of personality. A lot of water changes. A lot of transferring from one tank to another. Now I'm waiting to see if my female is dead or merely hiding in one of the spawning caves. I'm giving it another week and if she doesn't reappear, I'm goin' in.


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## erose (8 mo ago)

You might try adding some passive live food for him to hunt to help with the boredom. Only eating flake food isn't very stimulating for a predator's mind, and he clearly has some sort of drive to hunt (evident by the dead shrimp). I've never tried to find ostracods on purpose, they just showed up in my tank, but sometimes I siphon out a good number to give to my friend's Betta. Maybe a LFS would have them (likely as a "pest") in one of their tanks? Or you could try raising brine shrimp.

Not ever having kept a Betta myself, this is just an idea to give him a reason that makes sense for him to come out of hiding. Emerging to interact with the big scary human who catches him maybe isn't in his best interest, but hunting small tasty snacks might be more appealing. And over time, he might associate your arrival with the arrival of those small tasty snacks, and learn to accept you again.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

bc I've had him for 6 months now and have experienced his "affection", I don't think he's afraid of _me_. I think he feels badly bc he's sick and ya don't normally loor sick people out with food. I've quarantined him and am going to salt him to see if that's enough. This happened one time before and it did work. (the time I started this thread)
My suspicion is it got too cold in the room and he caught something, just like before.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

He died. He was having trouble breathing and he was laying down sideways but pointing up his head weirdly when I went to bed last night. I hate that I still don't fully know what did him in. I'm so upset and disappointed. I was hoping to have him for so much longer than this.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

It was probably the temperature right? Like it got too cold, he caught something and even though the temp was appropriate later, he was sick and I didn’t heal him on time? Could it have been something(one?) he ate?
I’m so sad and so frustrated.


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## mistergreen (Mar 3, 2007)

It's hard to say. How cold did it get? It could be from the changing parameters. You can get less demanding cherry shrimps for the bowl.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

I'm truly sorry for your loss. I would just refer back to post #6


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

double post.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

johnwesley0 said:


> I'm truly sorry for your loss. I would just refer back to post #6


6 months later?


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

gabi.loraine said:


> 6 months later?


I think you gave him the best possible care for those six months.


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

Unfortunately, most breeders of guppies and Bettas have no incentive to breed for longevity, which includes fitness. It's all colors and fast growth. Thus, the fish are genetically fragile and die young of "what-not." It's not your fault. 
I've been selectively breeding my guppies for longevity last 5 years. It has worked beautifully and subject of in-depth article 'Guppy Longevity' on my website. (I only keep progeny from female guppies that survive over 8 months.) My fish don't get any special care. If fish sellers want to promote aquarium keeping, I suggest that they start promoting fish longevity. Early fish death is a big turn-off. Attached is picture of top female (at 14 months age) that is still reproducing at 18 months







.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

dwalstad said:


> Unfortunately, most breeders of guppies and Bettas have no incentive to breed for longevity, which includes fitness. It's all colors and fast growth. Thus, the fish are genetically fragile and die young of "what-not." It's not your fault.
> I've been selectively breeding my guppies for longevity last 5 years. It has worked beautifully and subject of in-depth article 'Guppy Longevity' on my website. (I only keep progeny from female guppies that survive over 8 months.) My fish don't get any special care. If fish sellers want to promote aquarium keeping, I suggest that they start promoting fish longevity. Early fish death is a big turn-off. Attached is picture of top female (at 14 months age) that is still reproducing at 18 months
> View attachment 75295
> .


Thank you so much for this validating answer. I've been feeling so guilty and frustrated because I didn't figure out what I did wrong and I cared so much for that fish... I won't be getting another one for a couple of weeks because a move is coming up and I don't want to provoque any unnecessary stress to my next "victim" ... is there a better species you might recommend for me? I definitely do need at least one fish because mosquito larvae are prevalent here.


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

I've been informed that the fish was from Segrest Farm... anybody have a contact there?


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

gabi.loraine said:


> I've been informed that the fish was from Segrest Farm... anybody have a contact there?


When you buy your next fish, perhaps you could express an interest in longevity. Or ask the fish breeder which of his fish he sells are the sturdiest--least likely to get sick and/or die young. (It never hurts to ask.)


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## mysiak (Jan 17, 2018)

Didn't see it mentioned anywhere in this topic, but couldn't his labyrinth organ got sick from breathing cold dry air coming from the AC? As far as I know, placing betta tank away from draft and using lid if possible is one the main requirements for successful betta keeping. Bettas require not only warm water, but also warm humid air to breathe and AC provides exactly the opposite.


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## johnwesley0 (Feb 23, 2021)

mysiak said:


> Didn't see it mentioned anywhere in this topic, but couldn't his labyrinth organ got sick from breathing cold dry air coming from the AC? As far as I know, placing betta tank away from draft and using lid if possible is one the main requirements for successful betta keeping. Bettas require not only warm water, but also warm humid air to breathe and AC provides exactly the opposite.


@mysiak - You definitely get the forensic science award of the year!


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## dwalstad (Apr 14, 2006)

mysiak said:


> Didn't see it mentioned anywhere in this topic, but couldn't his labyrinth organ got sick from breathing cold dry air coming from the AC? As far as I know, placing betta tank away from draft and using lid if possible is one the main requirements for successful betta keeping. Bettas require not only warm water, but also warm humid air to breathe and AC provides exactly the opposite.


I second that award!


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## gabi.loraine (Dec 8, 2021)

Ok what about fruit flies? Are they safe to eat for a betta? I'm obviously second-guessing everything now...


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## PlentyCoup (Aug 22, 2021)

I am sorry for your loss i just had my Imbellis Betta die on me a few days ago.

I would second just about everything has said about the bettas. I have run the gambit with my betta tank. Gone through 3 fish since i set the tank up early last year. I even order a imbellis betta from Frank in Thailand. From my research i think he was unable to adjust to my water parameters. So i have thought of trying kilifish or even trying my hand at breeding guppies like Dianas but my issue is just that I dont have the space at all for breeding and i really wish i did and i cant think of a way to give myself more space.
So i guess for bettas either keep gwtting them from LFS and know that your gonna give them a good home for as long as you can, try finding a responsible breeder or try your hand at a different fish. The reason i keep coming back to bettas us because they are such a great nano personality fish, also i always feel awful for them stuck in those stupid bowls at LFS.


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