# Algae Grower Extraordinaire (With CLOSE-UP PICS)



## genetao (May 10, 2008)

I've been struggling with the algae for many months, and with all of my research, and trying to do what the experts say, I just simply can't banish the algae.

MY TANK SETUP

10 gallon tank - Medium to Heavily planted setup for about a year.

8 Cardinal Tetras & 1 Betta

Fertilizing Regiment - I use Seachem's full line of ferts including, Iron, Phosphorus, Nitrogen, Trace, Excel, Flourish and Potassium. I follow Seachem's recommended dosing schedule, but follow the EI method, slightly overdosing on all macro and micro nutrients. I typically dose about double of what Seachem recommends. (My tank goes through nitrates fairly fast). I do a 50% water change once a week to reset the tank. Substrate is the usual gravel.

When I test my water, the nitrates are about 10ppm, and phosphates are about 1-2ppm. Ph is 7.4, Gh is about 6 dKh. Per the EI method, all of this is within range.

I do not use CO2, hence the reason why I use Excel instead. (CO2 is rocket science/voodoo to me). But I usually double dose on Excel too.

Lighting: 2 spiral compact fluorescent bulbs each 14 watts, totaling 28 watts with a mylar reflector. Sounds like a lot with just using Excel right? But remember that these are spiral bulbs which are pretty inefficient when factoring in the re-strike, and plus the tank looks dimmer than my other nano tanks. The lights are on for 8.5 hours a day.

I use an AquaClear 30 filter, along with a powerhead to keep up with the proper amount of flow. Believe me, there is plenty of flow. My Betta hates it! And the cardinals swim against the current in a shoal.










Plants: 
Cryptocoryne
Anubias Nana
Anubias Barteri
Anubias Nana Petite
Java Moss
Java Fern
Hornwort
Sagittaria subulata

Yes they are mostly low light epiphytic plants. But using Excel with fairly inefficient spiral bulbs, added to the fact that I'm keeping up with all of their fertilizing needs, I would think that this would be a balanced ecosystem.

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I have two different types of algae that I'm struggling with.

The first one is some kind of hair or thread algae. It looks black, but upon closer inspection, it's very dark green. I ruled out BBA because it can be pulled apart and pulled off of plants. In fact, every now and then, I'll see a small clump of it riding along in the flow of the powerhead.
































































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Then there's this other, I'm guessing, mulm-type of algae. I have no other words for it, but I have it in all of my tanks. It can't be fish poop, because even in the 2.5 gallon tank with only a single betta, I have this algae. And I use the EI method on that tank too with a 50% water change once a week. There's no way a single betta can poop out this much stuff. So it can't be poop. It's gotta be some sort of pesky algae. But what exactly is it? This algae loves to grow on the floss filter media of the Red Sea Nano filter, especially because the filter is transparent, and is underneath a pendant light.




























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If you can tell me what I'm doing wrong and how I can fix it, please, I could use the hand. Short of telling me to break down my tank and start anew with AquaSoil, CO2, and fast growing stem plants with HO T-5 lighting, I'm hoping someone can point the error in my way.

Thanks for your help!


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

All your plants in that tank look like low light plants, except for the hornwort which appears to be floating on the top. I wonder if EI dosing is just too much. I think I'd do it a little leaner. Also with 28 watts and no CO2 I think you found your issue. Do you see more of the hair algae closer to the top? 

Do you think even with your aqua clear you have the water movement around the tank to get the chemicals evenly distributed throughout the tank? Wondering if you may have patches that the algae finds suitable to thrive in. 

Why not try to kill the algae by removing what you have, spot treating with H2O2. I dont' know what your photo period is. What I have found with my two 10gs and fluorescent bulbs is that with pressurized CO2 14 -16 watt bulbs are the breakpoint for algae. If I go over that I get algae - including hair algae. Since you do not have pressurized I would think your breakpoint would be lower.


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## genetao (May 10, 2008)

Tex Gal, so you're saying that 28 watts (2 x 14), even though they are spiral bulbs, with lots of re-strike, is too much lighting? I always figured that the WPG rule goes out the window when you have inefficient spiral CFL. 

I follow the EI because I've been learning that nutrient limiting can get you into more trouble than having an over abundance of nutrients (to a certain degree of course). Besides, my tank seems to be absorbing the nutrients fairly well because I constantly have to dose nitrogen. Otherwise, it falls to about 5 ppm, even with a medium load of fish. 

I do try to remove the algae by plucking it off the plants. But using H2O2 is a good idea too.

WOW! Only 1.4 - 1.6 WPG using CO2???? I always thought that that would be too little lighting. I'll try reducing the amount of lighting in the tank and see how that goes.


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Well I agree if the numbers you posted for your nutrients are constant most all the time you test. It doesn't sound like you are over dosing. You aren't missing w/c every a week, right?

I also understand about the wpg rule not working in smaller tanks. What I know is that if I use more that 14-16 wpg and DO NOT have fast growers and consistent pressurized CO2, I WILL get algae. I have two 10g tanks set up and I dose EI as well. I dose dry ferts. On both of these tanks I have Eheim 2213 filters. There is A LOT of water movement. They are both lightly stocked with fauna.

What you know is that you are having algae issues. Something is out of balance. Maybe your photo period is too long. Maybe you have dead water flow pockets. I'm not sure. Maybe you're not dosing enough Excel. Why not try to adjust one variant at a time and wait a few weeks. If no improvement then try a different variant.


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## genetao (May 10, 2008)

Tex Gal, Nope, I almost never miss a water change. I tried not doing a water change once, but the algae started to get a bit out of control. 

I've been told by one othe LFS gurus that I'll need about 3 WPG for my setup. I asked him, "Even for Crypts and Anubias plants?" He said yes. So 1.4-1.6 WPG sounds awfully low. In fact when I only had a 15 watt fluorescent tube over the 10 gal, I started growing brown diatom algae. Now maybe it was because it was a new tank setup at the time, but once I added more lighting, the brown diatoms went away. Which is why I thought I needed more than 1.5 WPG.

My photo period is 8.5 hours. And I think double dosing Excel at 2ml per 10 gallon should be enough. I wish I could test for it %p

Also having a AC30 filter along with a powerhead should be sufficient to remove any dead spots. 

I'll try reducing wattage of lighting, and see if that does the trick. But man I tell ya', this algae has sure been a thorn in my side


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Hair algae is really difficult to get rid of. I ended up taking a tank down because of it. 

I have experimented with some and found that if I do a 5 day blackout (begin Monday and end Friday) it knocks it back. Once it's weakened, hit it with H2O2 daily. Stop all water movement when dosing H2O2 for 30 min. I've read the max to dose is 3 ml per gallon. I've not done that much. You can then do a water change. I haven't followed with a water change. I've done this in a tank with CRS and everyone is fine. NEVER put the H2O2 directly onto critters. It's ok if they get into the bubbles, just don't squirt it directly on them. 

I've found that this does kill the hair algae. You might have to do the black out several times, days apart. Pull out any hair algae you can.

Understand, I'm not saying that the higher light will hurt the crypts or anubias. They will do fine with what you have. What I am saying is that you have too much light for the nutrients and plant mix you have. The trouble with hair algae is that it like the same conditions that healthy plants like.


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## genetao (May 10, 2008)

Wow! Seriously!??!?! You had to break down a tank just because of some stupid algae? That really must have been a PITA. 

I think the algae I'm struggling with, is a different type. With the hair algae in my tank, I can EASILY pull it off, whether it be on plants or on rock or driftwood. I don't need to do anything drastic like blackouts or use H2O2. I just pull it carefully with a pair of long tweezers, and it comes off completely. Viola! But by the end of week, it grows right back. 

Yesterday, I pulled the anubias nana out (it's rooted on a piece of rock) rinsed it, and pulled the remaining algae off. The hornwort was a bit more of a pain. Actually more like painstaking, trying to pull of all traces of the hair algae, but it does come off. 

Isn't this just the strangest sounding hair algae to have????

Now I do have small patches of fuzz algae, or spots of GSA. But it isn't widespread, and even so, I have a nerite to take care of that. Otherwise, I'll just snip off the affected leaf. 

In any case, I'm following your advice, and reducing the lighting from 28 watts, to 20 watts. (basically 2 x10 watt CFL). In addition, I put a piece of paper under the lights to diffuse the lighting even more. I'm hoping that by doing this will be enough to reduce the algae problem. 

Typically by the end of the week there'll be algae already growing back. So if by the end of this week, the algae isn't held at bay, I'll reduce the lighting even further, going with 15 watts of lighting.

Thanks for the advice. I'll report back in a week and let you know how it goes.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

In the worst case scenario, you are at the very least a very good algae grower and should be commended :hail:. 

I've got a 10 gallon myself, but have not had it set up long enough to know whether I'm out of balance or not. But reading this thread makes me a little cautious because I've got 2x20 watt spiral bulbs on it for about 10 hours a day or more (it's the only tank without timers, so whenever the kids turn it on and off is the photoperiod). I guess I need to pay a little closer attention to it and maybe just remove one of the bulbs.

Thanks for the post. It's good to know that those of us with algae issues are not alone. It's taken months for me to get my algae issue to a manageable state in my other aquarium.


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## genetao (May 10, 2008)

Wow! 40 watts of lighting over 10 gallons sounds like a lot of lighting! At that rate, you'll be an Algae Grower Extraordinaire too in no time!arty:

What did you do in your other tank to manage the algae problem?


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

> Wow! 40 watts of lighting over 10 gallons sounds like a lot of lighting! At that rate, you'll be an Algae Grower Extraordinaire too in no time!
> 
> What did you do in your other tank to manage the algae problem?


Funny enough, I CUT BACK THE LIGHTING!!!:idea: Which begs the question, "Why on Earth stick that much light over a 10 gallon npt?" to which I have no answer.

It had something to do with a lack of reflectors and comparing coiled bulbs to a set of T5-HO fixtures (over the 125 npt and the 20 gallon terrarium). I had some kind of bulb that came with the fixture called a "Plant Grow" incandescent, but even with 2 15watt bulbs it looked like a cave, which is what caused me to increase the wattage.


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## genetao (May 10, 2008)

mudboots said:


> Funny enough, I CUT BACK THE LIGHTING!!!:idea: Which begs the question, "Why on Earth stick that much light over a 10 gallon npt?" to which I have no answer.
> 
> It had something to do with a lack of reflectors and comparing coiled bulbs to a set of T5-HO fixtures (over the 125 npt and the 20 gallon terrarium). I had some kind of bulb that came with the fixture called a "Plant Grow" incandescent, but even with 2 15watt bulbs it looked like a cave, which is what caused me to increase the wattage.


The plant grow bulbs usually has lighting focused in the blue and red wavelengths, which the plants prefer. However, because it's mostly missing light in the green wavelength (which is largely UNUSED by plants), it seems a lot darker to your eye, but to the plants (and algae) it's still quite a lot of lighting. If I'm correct, that was the mistake made by a lot of owners of the Solaris LED lighting system. The lighting seemed somewhat dark to their eye, so they cranked up the lighting. In the end, they were baking their corals.

But if your tank is doing well without any algae growing, then more power to you. Good luck with your tank.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Thanks for that information Genetao. BTW - I removed the mega-lights and replaced them with twin 13's, so now I'm at 2.6 wpg instead of 4.0. My daughter doesn't like them because it looks more yellow than the bright white of the better bulbs, but I told her she'd get used to it until I decide just exactly what lighting to use.

The brown slime algae is getting pretty bad in this tank now, so it looks like I've got some work to do. Fortunately an experiment with hydrogen peroxide seems to have prevented some of the more difficult-to-fight algaes from taking over.


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## genetao (May 10, 2008)

mudboots said:


> Thanks for that information Genetao. BTW - I removed the mega-lights and replaced them with twin 13's, so now I'm at 2.6 wpg instead of 4.0. My daughter doesn't like them because it looks more yellow than the bright white of the better bulbs, but I told her she'd get used to it until I decide just exactly what lighting to use.
> 
> The brown slime algae is getting pretty bad in this tank now, so it looks like I've got some work to do. Fortunately an experiment with hydrogen peroxide seems to have prevented some of the more difficult-to-fight algaes from taking over.


That's close to what I used for lighting before; 2X14 watt spiral bulbs. That is of course until Tex Gal told me that that was too much lighting for the tank that I have. So now I've swapped out those bulbs and instead use 2x10 watt (straight) bulbs (meaning not spiral). I've also put a piece of white paper underneath the bulbs to diffuse the lighting. I purchased these straight bulbs with the typical screw-in base at Walmart in the aquarium & fish aisle. The color temperature is 6500K, daylight. My algae problem seems to be subsiding for the most part.

If you are near a Walmart, they also sell 10 & 13 watt spiral bulbs for really cheap that are daylight 6500K color temp. I got two 13 watt bulbs for $2 there.

But if you are having an outbreak of algae, it still sounds like something is out of balance. The brown slime algae sounds a lot like, well, brown algae. If the tank is new, then that may be the culprit. From my understanding, in new tanks, the silicates from the glass slowly leaches out, which apparently is great for brown algae. But over time as less and less silicates leach out, the brown algae will slowly die off. That's what happened with my tank when it was new. The other cause of brown algae is too little light, but that's obviously not the reason why you're having this algae ;p

Go HERE for more info.

I've found that otocinclus go nuts over brown algae! This is why they were put here on this earth for: to eradicate brown algae!!! I had a pair of otos that did such a great job of cleaning up the brown algae, that in the end, I had to give them away because there was no brown algae left for them to eat!

The other algae it could possibly be, is Blue-Green algae (BGA) which is actually a cyanobacteria. If that's the case, then absolutely nothing will eat that. No snail, nor fish nor any living creature will touch that with a ten foot pole because it's really not an algae at all. It's a bacteria. BGA could possibly look brown especially if the lighting used is a cooler color temperature (e.g. yellowish light).

Case in point ,last weekend I did some maintenance on a friend's 55 gallon (He has a new born baby. Need I say more???) On one particular rock receiving lots of sunlight, there was a thick sheet of this dark red, almost brown algae. It came off easily in sheets just like BGA does, but the color didn't look like your typical bluish-green. I concluded that it was in fact BGA by the simply fact that you could peel it off like you do dead skin when you've been under the sun too long at the beach [smilie=n: It smelled bad too. I did a nitrate test on his tank, and the readings were at about 120 PPM!!!!!! No kidding! They were through the roof! Amazing the fish even lived!

In the link above regarding BGA, it states:

"Excess organic loading is the real cause in many cases. Try removing decaying plant material and prune old leaves that are leaking organic nutrients back into the water column."

So make sure to stay on top of your water changes 

In any case, I believe it's either BGA or or brown algae. Hope you are able to figure it out and go from there.


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Wow, that's a lot of information packed into one post!!! Playing around with it I don't think it's BGA. This tank is still really new, so I think a crew or 10 otos will be put to work as soon as I can track some down. Once they've finished I can let them retire to the 125 where they'll live a life of ease, eating all that junk on the driftwood that seems to outgrow the efforts of my pleco (GSA). Of course, she's been spoiled on shrimp pellets (never heard of this till this one little pleco) and simply doesn't eat until I feed the cories their treat.

On the lighting, I'll probably go with the twin 10 daylights. I like that color temp alot.


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## genetao (May 10, 2008)

mudboots said:


> Wow, that's a lot of information packed into one post!!! Playing around with it I don't think it's BGA. This tank is still really new, so I think a crew or 10 otos will be put to work as soon as I can track some down. Once they've finished I can let them retire to the 125 where they'll live a life of ease, eating all that junk on the driftwood that seems to outgrow the efforts of my pleco (GSA). Of course, she's been spoiled on shrimp pellets (never heard of this till this one little pleco) and simply doesn't eat until I feed the cories their treat.
> 
> On the lighting, I'll probably go with the twin 10 daylights. I like that color temp alot.


That's good to hear that it's not BGA. But just to be on the safe side, perhaps just purchase only a pair or even a trio of otos for a few reasons:

1. Just in the off chance that it's not brown algae, but some other type of algae, then you're not out that much money. There are a number of types of algae that otos WON'T eat including green spot algae.

2. A pair or trio should be more than adequate in controlling the algae problem if indeed it is brown algae. IME, by the third day of introducing my pair of otos, more than half of the brown algae was gone, and replaced with lots and LOTS of oto pellet poop. No kidding! They must have eaten like half their body weight in algae!!! They rival goldfish or even oscars with their poop-to-body weight ratio. My guess is that the otos were starving at the LFS until I put them into my tank. It got too much for me to bear, and did a water change / gravel and poop vac mid-way into the week ( I normally do weekly water changes).

3. Throwing in 10 fish all at once into your 10g is going to wreak havoc on your tank. With an insufficient amount of nitrosomas and nitrobacter bacteria to compensate, you'll have an ammonia and nitrite spike for sure! Especially at the rate the otos are gonna poop. And chances are, you're not gonna need the help of all 10 of them, unless of course you enjoy seeing a field of poop pellets strewn along your plant leaves, rocks, decoration, and gravel. Lovely -_^

4. One other thing about otos, is that the vast majority of them are wild caught. Because of this, there might be an incidence of DIE-OFF, which is another good reason to not buy 10 of them.

Go HERE for more info on otocinclus feeding.
HERE's an article on algae in that same website. Worth a look.

BTW, plecos are the suxor when it comes to algae eating. They are great at destroying and uprooting plants while leaving your algae perfectly intact, and if you get the standard, run-of-the-mill pleco, they can grow way longer than a foot in length! Perhaps, that is why you still have GSA. To rid yourself of GSA, get a few freshwater nerite snails.

As for the lighting, THIS what I purchased from Walmart. The bulbs are great because they're low profile, 6500K daylight (or there about), slightly longer in length compared to the stubby spiral bulbs, (which of course means slightly better light coverage), and screw right into your standard light socket. But at $5 a pop, they are a bit pricier though than your run-of-the-mill spiral. So buying two will cost about $10, which is getting close in price to replacing a 15 watt fluorescent tube light.

I hope this points you in the right direction [smilie=n:


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## armedbiggiet (May 6, 2006)

trimm off the plants with algae than figure it out one at a time. Your lights are strong but I think you can start reduce the fert first. Alot of the plant glow bulbs are for none aquatic plants so there kelvin should be different and that is why they look dimmer.


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## genetao (May 10, 2008)

I just wanted to update you on the progress of my algae problem. 

I replaced the 2X14 with a 2X10 CFL bulbs (because I had these bulbs lying around). I then put a sheet of light-weight paper under the CFLs to reduce the amount of light. On top of that, I removed the hornwort since it was sitting directly under the lights, which were great conditions for growing algae. Tex Gal was right in guessing that a majority of the algae was growing in the top-half of the tank. I still double dose Excel at 2ml for the 10 gal. tank. I kept the photo period for 9 hours. I trimmed off any leaves with fuzz / brush algae on it. 

I've given it a few weeks for everything to settle in. And I must say that almost all of the algae has packed its bags and decided to move into another neighborhood. Any other neighborhood is fine, so long as it's not mine :yell: There are still remnants and stragglers here and there, but nothing that a quick wipe won't cure. 

I just wanted to thank Tex Gal for her advice, for it has given me a new understanding of aquariums. Lesson I learned from this? DON'T always listen to the plant "guru" at your LFS, especially when they say that 3 wpg is needed for the likes of anubias or crypts [smilie=b:


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## mudboots (Jun 24, 2009)

Good to hear you're back on the path of the fun part of aqua-keeping, which does NOT include battling algae. I rescaped my 10 gallon (see Abby's 10 gallon Betta "Bowl" in the journals forum - it's starting to finally come along pretty well as of yesterday with noticed plant growth), and have the twin 10 watt bulbs over about 5 gallons of water. I'm not real concerned with algae at this point in there becuase half the light hits a rock.

I went ahead and bought a dozen otos, along with a dozen Apisto. macmasteri, 8 agasizzi cory cats, and 21 Trig.espei's, but only 5 otos went into the tank (the rest were for the 125). They cleaned up what little algae I left behind in no time and now there are 3 left in there (the other 2 are a clean-up crew in the 3 gallon pico).

I still have GSA in the 125, but I am going to "hire" some nerites, as you mentioned earlier, to help me out with that little problem. Other than that things seem to be working themselves out. I had heard that patience with NPT's is all it really takes, but I was skeptical until recently.


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