# cryptocoryne rosanergiv



## ianiwane

*cryptocoryne rosanervig*

Any special care needed with this plant. I'm getting one in probably on monday with a large plant order.


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## Kai Witte

C. cordata 'Rosanervig' grows well with some people and seems a bit slow with others. I'd suggest to first try it like any other cordata and if this doesn't suffice, a little experimenting may be in order.


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## HeyPK

> Any special care needed with this plant. I'm getting one in probably on monday with a large plant order.


What company are you ordering from? I would like to know what company sends to North America and can send rosanervig. =P~ I am assuming you are from N. America from your time zone in your profile.


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## ianiwane

I recently put together a big order with SFBAAPS through greenchapter.com. Roland who is the owner of GC so far has been a pleasure to deal with. We are getting many other rare plants in this order. I'm planning on growing it in my fifty gallon tank that has ADA amazonia. I dose EI and have pressurized CO2.


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## plantbrain

Ian, you aren't pinching some of my group are you? haha
I plan the same thing, we will not have any issues growing it, less light will be wise. They have done best at about 1.5-2w gal. 

I've flowered 3 varieties of cordata submersed.

This plant should be given the reverance it deserves, a center piece plant. 
Used much like a sword plant, they get good sized, but they do not overtake the tank nearly the same way, if they do, then it's a good thing

I also know how to get better contrast with the veining.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Aaron

I've been keeping this plant for a while (I think at least five years now) and I can say that is a plant that takes its sweet old time. It seems to respond poorly to being moved or transplanted. Even trimming runners have slowed it down. From the cordata group, I have blassi, siamensis, and griffithi and the Rosy is by far the slowest. They like a rich substrate, but I find it needs to be very loose and well circulated. Low light, bright light... doesn't seem to matter. 

I am currently growing it emersed (its been over a year now) and the plant has never gotten as large and colorful as it did when I grwe it submersed. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong. There is a post regarding this plant a while back (a year or so) HeyPK had some good advice to share...

Tom, would you care to share on how to bring out the color in this fine plant? From what I've seen and heard, some clones have more pink than others.


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## ianiwane

Out of all the plants I think I am looking forward to this one the most. Tom, three of us are actually getting one of these crypts. I guess it won't be that rare in our club. Thanks Aaron and Tom for the input. Aaron, how long does it that to propagate the plant typically?


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## plantbrain

It was x $ for a group, some he had 3 groups available?

I do not think we will have much issue at culture given the water conditions, substrates we have, dosing and high CO2.

These plants and the group in general does better submersed.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## ianiwane

Tom it sounded like with that crypt he did not have any problems getting it. I think he may be growing it.


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## Ibn

Tom, I'm the third on the group that's getting the plant also, along with C. keei, and nurii.

I want to eventually replace my swords with these as they grow in (keeping fingers crossed).


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## plantbrain

Yuo will not have much success with the nurrii, the keeri likely either, these are mainly rasrer plasnts, but due to them being emergent plants only.

They do very poorly submersed, you can keep them there for long peroids, but they will never thrive.

But I have not tried the nurrii in ADA soil either.......still, I think it's the emergent specialist plant group only.

Many of the rarer crypts on the list there are precisely that, ecolectic emergent plants, some folks with $ or seeking a rare plant often don't realize that and waste and kill a nice rare plant without knowing that much about it.

You need a nice little emergenet set up, these are not complex by any means, the Cc rosa can and should be grown subsmersed.

C lingua is often sold, but it's an emergent plant.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Kai Witte

Actually, there are people who have long-time success with keeping lingua submersed despite it's being an emersed grower in nature (it's a tidal zone specialist like ciliata which can also be grown submersed).

I agree with Tom that members of the cordata group are usually growing submersed in nature and are just adapted to survive low water periods by growing emersed if forced to. Most grow way better submersed once their requirements are met with!

However, the same is true for nurii and keei which are also almost always growing submersed in nature and if found emersed show clearly stunted growth. My advice for these would be to try meeting their requirements and give submersed culture a try - it's possible! It wouldn't hurt to put a surplus plant into a dedicated emersed crypt tank as a back-up but the only reason why most of the rare crypts are grown emersed even by specialized crypt growers is that folks haven't figured out how to grow them correctly.

Also check this recent thread on nurii:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=11418


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## plantbrain

Kai Witte said:


> Actually, there are people who have long-time success with keeping lingua submersed despite it's being an emersed grower in nature (it's a tidal zone specialist like ciliata which can also be grown submersed).


Yea, and the one's I saw looked like crap compared to my plants.
They will hang out, but they will not thrive.

{quote]
However, the same is true for nurii and keei which are also almost always growing submersed in nature and if found emersed show clearly stunted growth. My advice for these would be to try meeting their requirements and give submersed culture a try - it's possible! It wouldn't hurt to put a surplus plant into a dedicated emersed crypt tank as a back-up but the only reason why most of the rare crypts are grown emersed even by specialized crypt growers is that folks haven't figured out how to grow them correctly.

Also check this recent thread on nurii:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=11418[/QUOTE]

Kai, I'm pretty competent grower.
C nurii has never been something I was able to have thrive submersed, I've flowered C parva and many others sub and emegent. C nurri was very easy to grow emergent and the flower is one of the best treats.

I suppose I could take yet another stab submersed, that was 7 years ago.
I kept it for 2 years underwater.
It did grow a little, but about 50X slower.
I've kept C lingua for peroids and had it look decent underwater, but the leaves have slowly waned.

Now I can grow Tonia well in plain old flourite, have soft water etc, so......

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain

The C cordata var blassii "rosanergiv" I got today was in fact, the correct plant.

Yay! Took me 20 years to get the damn plant, I suppose I can die happy now.
I saw the C keeri, it appeared to be the right plant also.

I got some nurii so I may as well give that a whirl submersed again and prove myself wrong. I'll be happy if I do

I also got some coronata that I've never kept but Herson use to talk about and Jan as well. Herson' dead now, but the plants still appear. 
My avatar is a an Alexi triploid hybrid of usteriana and wendtii, looks a little like the nurii's leaves.


Kai, if I come to SG, you folks have to take me out to see the Crypt weeds
I actually might be coming sometime in the next 12-14 months.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## lorba

If u guys have the time to be here in Sg, let me know about it. We can go visit sites of nurii, griffthii, and some other crypts sp, if there is time. 

The nurii habitat that i visited was quite a big river, several hrs away from Sg. I was told that black cobras and small crocs patrol the river occassionally (After I was back, anyway). There are some nice little rasbora and loaches in the upstream banks as well.


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## ianiwane

Cool, Tom I'm glad it was the right plant, now to wait and see it grow out. I would say it was a pretty sucessful group buy. Almost all the plants arived in good shape. Roland surely took a lot of time and care in packing the plants.


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## Ibn

Yup, plants look good other than the C. keei. It's in the tank now so we'll see how it does. I checked this morning and the last nib of leaf doesn't look too promising. ;(


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## plantbrain

lorba said:


> If u guys have the time to be here in Sg, let me know about it. We can go visit sites of nurii, griffthii, and some other crypts sp, if there is time.
> 
> The nurii habitat that i visited was quite a big river, several hrs away from Sg. I was told that black cobras and small crocs patrol the river occassionally (After I was back, anyway). There are some nice little rasbora and loaches in the upstream banks as well.


I'll feel right at home then.
I would hope you have nice snakes and croc's as well, nothing we don't have have in Florida. Cotton mouth snakes, gators and crocs, more mosquitos than you can stand, the typical tropical animal fair. Species change, but the overall risk are similar.

I have an underwater camera also.
I'll let folks know several months out.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Kai Witte

plantbrain said:
 

> Yea, and the one's I saw looked like crap compared to my plants. They will hang out, but they will not thrive.


Well, I do mean growing larger and producing healthy runners. Of course, submersed ciliata doesn't get as big as emersed plants in nature but I wouldn't consider this a problem.  (Actually, I'm not advocating keeping these submersed - just pointing out that it's possible despite their emersed growing preferences.)



> Kai, I'm pretty competent grower.


I certainly wasn't implying otherwise, Tom.



> C nurii has never been something I was able to have thrive submersed, I've flowered C parva and many others sub and emegent. C nurri was very easy to grow emergent and the flower is one of the best treats.


Even if a dozen experts can successfully grow a plant emersed but more or less fail to do so submersed, it doesn't follow that the plant neccessarily prefers to grow emersed - that's a classic non sequitur... Especially in the light of the many known collecting localities (always with very good submersed growth) from all over the species' range of distribution, there seems no reason to declare this species as an intrinsically bad submersed grower. I still stand by my observation that the correct submersed growing conditions for this species have yet to be replicated in aquaria. I have reasonable submersed growth but no tank optimized for nurii to check some working hypotheses.



> I suppose I could take yet another stab submersed, that was 7 years ago. I kept it for 2 years underwater. It did grow a little, but about 50X slower.


What water parameters did you offer nurii back then?



> Now I can grow Tonia well in plain old flourite, have soft water etc, so......


Tonina is certainly not the worst choice when looking for plants with possibly similar requirements. So just give it a second try...


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## Kai Witte

plantbrain said:


> Kai, if I come to SG, you folks have to take me out to see the Crypt weeds


Hello Tom, it's been years since I last visited Singapore. Needless to say, I'd love to travel the neighbouring countries again!


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## Kai Witte

Ibn said:


> Yup, plants look good other than the C. keei. It's in the tank now so we'll see how it does. I checked this morning and the last nib of leaf doesn't look too promising. ;(


It's often better to let a battered rhizome float in some clean water rather than plant it. Wait until the melting stops and at least the first, possibly tiny leaf appears.


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## Ibn

Thanks for the tip, Kai. It's actually still floating right now and not planted. That was the last leaf on the plant so hopefully it'll put out a new one soon.


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## plantbrain

Kai Witte said:


> Hello Tom, it's been years since I last visited Singapore. Needless to say, I'd love to travel the neighbouring countries again!


See? I can read minds!
I knew you wanted to come and explore on a plant hunting trip.

haha

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain

Kai Witte said:


> What water parameters did you offer nurii back then?
> 
> Tonina is certainly not the worst choice when looking for plants with possibly similar requirements. So just give it a second try...


Actually I am, I agree with you that all those pics underwater mean it can be done. I have a plant I got recently to try out.

I'll see how it does.

The tap was fairly soft back then.
The tank has RO+ tap blend to about KH of 2 now.
Very stable tank. 4" of ADA soil, better water column fertilized now. 
CO2 maximized. I also have some rare Austrailan plants folks have had a lot of trouble with just starting up.

and I do prefer submersed growth given a choice.........

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Ibn

Picture of one of the leaves of the C. rosanervig. Does it look like it's been grown emersed?


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## Kai Witte

Hello Tom,



plantbrain said:


> The tap was fairly soft back then.
> The tank has RO+ tap blend to about KH of 2 now.


Adding CO2 you may be able to mask the KH (carbonates are unknown to this plant in nature).



> I also have some rare Austrailan plants folks have had a lot of trouble with just starting up.


Ondinea?


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## Aaron

Ibn said:


> Picture of one of the leaves of the C. rosanervig. Does it look like it's been grown emersed?


Did all of the plants come in looking like this? I hate to break it to you guys, but that doesn't look like rosanervig. Where's the pinkish white veining? It should be present in both emersed and submersed leaves.


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## Ibn

Two of the three came in looking like this. Tom got there before I did and took off with his beforehand, so I didn't get a chance to take a look at his. Also the coloration on the underside is purple. Is this a characteristic of this plant or did the wrong one get shipped?


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## ianiwane

I just emailed Roland of GC he said that the plants need to be grown in a favorable condition before the plant changes color.


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## opiesilver

Shouldn't the crypt have been grown in those very same favorable conditions before being sold and shipped? Are these wild collected then?

How much did the C cordata var blassii "rosanergiv" run you Tom? Last time I checked, about two years ago, that crypt was going for about $150USD plus shipping if you bought them from Rayon Vert in Japan.


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## Ibn

I believe that these are wild collected Crypts, but I'm not 100% sure.

Just an update on the plant. The leaves have righted themselves to the light and one of the leaves, adjacent to the one pictured, shows some promise. The central vein is starting to take on a different coloration.


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## Kai Witte

Ibn said:


> I believe that these are wild collected Crypts, but I'm not 100% sure.


Cryptocoryne cordata 'Rosanervig' is a formally named cultivar deriving from a single plant out of a larger shipment received in 1972 by Peter Schneider of Switzerland. While this aberrant plant came from nature, I doubt that any other similar specimen has been found since. Thus, all available specimens originate from a single mother plant.


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## Ibn

Tells you how much I know about this or any of the other rare crypts. :lol:

Thanks for the insight.


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## lorba

Some cultivars in crypts are rosanergiv, green gecko, chameleon. 

Xema has a photo of the gecko. I've also grew it with 3 different colors, all green, almost all greenish-brown and the same pattern as xema's. I am now toying with one which probably is chameleon. 

According to oriental book, the rosanergiv has pink veins, no glossy dark green leaf blade, feature may be less pronounced under certain conditions. Its a variant picked up among a shipment of cordata sp and thereafter, cultured of that mother plant.

From my discussions with commerical people and hobbyists, seems like there isnt a "certain" condition which can be considered favourable for best coloration. I am now growing 2 plants in 2 different using MH and T5. In the T5 tank, the veins are dark green while under MH, veins are dark pinkish. Both in chilled water.


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## Aaron

A couple of observations I've made growing this plant...

New leaves have very wide and distinct veins. As the leaf grows older, the veins tend to thin a bit. Nevertheless, the veining is very distinct and undeniable. 

I am currently growing my rosy emersed and the plant does not nearly get as large as it did when I had it submersed. The veining seems to be not as pink in emersed cultivation. This just may be my incompetence as a crypt grower though. 

I started with a tiny plantlet cut from a runner that had 2 leaves about a half an inch and maybe one root the same size about five years ago. Granted, I have had many ups and downs with it and to this day, I have only been able to produce eight plants from the original. Again, probably because I don't really know what I'm doing. 

I'll post some pics later.


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## Xema

opiesilver said:


> Shouldn't the crypt have been grown in those very same favorable conditions before being sold and shipped? Are these wild collected then?


Most of the plant was cultured on emergent condition in the farm... Probably C. cordata 'rosanervig' hasn´t definitive color in emersed culture. The same is seen in the wendtii varities which Roland says.

Personally I don´t like soo much artificial varieties... Nevertheless, Rosanervig variety was found in nature, probably a mutation.

Greeting from Spain


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## Aaron

here are some pics...
Here is a picture of my lone "rosy" over a year ago. I had neglected the small group I had had and lost all but one. , I think it had been in emersed culture for maybe 3 or 4 months at the time of shooting this pic and all the leaves develop while the plant was emersed. Thanks to HeyPK's advice, this plant has come back strong and has produced a number of runners.









Here is a picture (kinda) of it approximately 3 or 4 years ago when I had it growing submersed. The plant along with this cordata and many others were set up in a 30 gallon horse trough in my patio. the plants received a couple of hours of direct sunlight... notice the 2 "rosy" leaves in the bottom left corner. One is much older than the other.









This next pic is from a pet store in Japan, taken by a friend last summer. He said the plants were selling for about $100 each. The price is coming down!









I took a bunch of shots of my plants today, but I seem to have lost my card reader soI can't upload them just yet.. I'll update it later with fresh images.


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## Xema

Very nice plant you show us.

I have 2 different types of commercial C. cordata, one with rounded leaves and other one with lanceolated leaves...


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## Ibn

Nice plants looking plants in those pictures, Aaron. 

Not much happening with the colors so far. Just a couple of new leaves for the moment.


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## ianiwane

mine so far has produced another plant. It has a pinkish vein nothing pronounced yet. It looks like it is throwing off 3 new runners though. Tom was saying it needs low nitrates to have a pronounced veining.


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## jazzlvr123

haha funny I found this thread today i just received one of Ians Cryptocoryne cordata 'Rosanervig' runners in the mail today which I purchased off aquabid and it has yet to show pink veining (it needs time considering its been in the tank for not even a day yet), is there anything I can do to make the veining more pronounced? today it was placed in a discus tank with 6.5 ph, compressed co2 and daily macro and micro nutrient dosing, I heard if I put it in low light it will do well, any suggestions?


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