# [Wet Thumb Forum]-Cloudy Water w/Tiny Worms



## Stratified (Jul 23, 2003)

This is my first post to this group. I've been looking around and haven't found another as active or with as experienced contributors. Please excuse the length, but I want to be sure I present all the relevant information









Current problems:

1. !! Water is clouded with light-colored (not green) particles, some of which wiggle and appear as almost microscopic worms.

2. ! Cannot seem to get pH to stay down! Takes daily doses of pH Down to keep between 7.0/7.2.

3. Tops of most Columbia Carolina are turning yellow. (added more root tabs)

4. Some older Columbia Carolina tops have brown, lacy algae.

5. Some older hornwort still have beard algae turned black. Stopped original outbreak w/ low light and addition of Ottocynclus.

6. Mondo Grass has black spots from brown algae outbreak that won't go away. Very dark green, but are not growing. Planted in sandy end of tank.

Most recent activity prior to outbreak:

Heavy pruning and re-planting, including removal from substrate.

Tank description:

Size: 55 gal., glass top

Lighting: 2 shop light fixtures
2 ea. Sylvania Gro-Lux F40/GRO/AQ

Substrate:
Bot. Layer: (.) Fine aquarium sand, Pure Laterite
2nd Layer: (-) Sm. natural, coated gravel
3rd Layer: (=) Med. natural, coated gravel
4th Layer: (#) 25 lb. aquarium black slate

Arrangement:
### #####
######
### ## ######
==================
---------------------------------
.............................................

Filter: Aqua-Tech 30-60 Power Filter, dual cartridge; Hangs off back

Plants:
A dozen or so Columbia Carolinia
15-20 Either Hornwort or Egeria Densa (?)
15-20 beautiful, broad-leaf, fast grow (?)
3 clumps of Mondo Grass
1 Med. Amazon Sword

Supplements:
Root tabs in substrate near/between plants
CO2 injection: bubble 1/sec. to impeller

Water quality history w/notes:
"<" means before measurement
">" means after measurement

Date pH GH KH NH3 NO2 NO3 
Notes

06/21 7.6 4 13 0 0 0
< 1-wk: setup substrate, plants, meas./adj. pH daily
> Add 10" Placo & 3 orange Neons
> Removed Placo next day
> Meas. NH3 daily: 0

06/28 7.2 - 8
> Exch. 13 gal. de-ionized water
> Add home-made CO2 injection, pos. at intake

07/04 7.2 3 8 0 2.0 7
> Exch. 25 gal. de-ionized water
> Check water quality again

07/04 6.8 2 7 - 0.5 3

07/06 7.6 3 7 0 0 5
< Siphon gravel, leaves
> Removed, pruned, rooted, replanted
> Added medium size "African Root"

07/10 7.6 3 7 0 0 5
< Observed cloudy water [milky)
> Turned off 2nd (2-bulb) light.
> Added 10 black Neons
> Changed 1 filter cartridge

07/12 7.2 4 10 0 0 0
< Observed very cloudy water: can't see end to end
< Observed tiny, white worms?
< Exch. 35 gal. de-ionized water
< Added Electro-rite to 5 gal
< Changed 2nd filter cartridge
> Observed water somewhat clearer
> Observed return to same cloud next 4 days
> Observed blue-green algae on sand, rocks, some plants over next 5 days

07/19 - - - - - -
< Siphoned blue-green algae
> Exch. 20 gal. de-ionized water, add Nitro-Zorb

07/22 7.2 3 10 0 0 2.5
> Observed clearer water, no worms, still cloudy
> Observed increase snail population
> Crush snails on glass while small, clear
> Siphon larger snails on sight

Questions:

1. How can I clear up my water without endangering the plants or fish?

2. Is the cloudy water an indication of a bacteria bloom and/or plankton?

3. Could stirring up the bottom during pruning have caused this cloudy water condition? If so, how do I prevent it in the future?

4. What could be causing my pH and KH to continuously rise? What more can I to to get it to dropt to around 6.8 so I can add some angelfish? I now only use de-ionized water. I've added some African Root. I've added CO2 injection and the plants are flourishing. I've read that all of these things are supposed to contribute to lowering pH.

5. What could be causing the tops of my Columbia Carolina to turn yellow? I've read that this can be from iron or potasium deficiency. Is this true? I've since added more root tabs, but haven't seen any dramatic changes. Lower leaves seem to be greening up, though.

6. Why don't my Ottocynclus eat all the brown algae? They munched on the crops that were on the rocks and Mondo Grass, but didn't seem to do much with the layers that settled on some of my Columbia Carolina.

7. Where can I find Siamese Algae Eaters?

8. How can I identify my most prolific plant? I've browsed plant sites, but can't seem to find it. Most sites I've visited are organized by scientific name or genus. I need photos. This plant has hardy, square trunk with opposing, broad, bright green leaves. Roots sprout at the leaf stems along trunk. Cuttings easily root. Has pronounced viens. Usually first to get algae strings on leaves.

9. What can I do to get my Mondo Grass to grow so I can get cuttings to re-plant?

10. Is there a place I can temporarily post digital photos so some of you can see what I'm talking about?

Thanks for enduring this long post. I appreciate any constructive criticism or advice from the experts.

--Cal Webster

Here to serve...


----------



## Stratified (Jul 23, 2003)

This is my first post to this group. I've been looking around and haven't found another as active or with as experienced contributors. Please excuse the length, but I want to be sure I present all the relevant information









Current problems:

1. !! Water is clouded with light-colored (not green) particles, some of which wiggle and appear as almost microscopic worms.

2. ! Cannot seem to get pH to stay down! Takes daily doses of pH Down to keep between 7.0/7.2.

3. Tops of most Columbia Carolina are turning yellow. (added more root tabs)

4. Some older Columbia Carolina tops have brown, lacy algae.

5. Some older hornwort still have beard algae turned black. Stopped original outbreak w/ low light and addition of Ottocynclus.

6. Mondo Grass has black spots from brown algae outbreak that won't go away. Very dark green, but are not growing. Planted in sandy end of tank.

Most recent activity prior to outbreak:

Heavy pruning and re-planting, including removal from substrate.

Tank description:

Size: 55 gal., glass top

Lighting: 2 shop light fixtures
2 ea. Sylvania Gro-Lux F40/GRO/AQ

Substrate:
Bot. Layer: (.) Fine aquarium sand, Pure Laterite
2nd Layer: (-) Sm. natural, coated gravel
3rd Layer: (=) Med. natural, coated gravel
4th Layer: (#) 25 lb. aquarium black slate

Arrangement:
### #####
######
### ## ######
==================
---------------------------------
.............................................

Filter: Aqua-Tech 30-60 Power Filter, dual cartridge; Hangs off back

Plants:
A dozen or so Columbia Carolinia
15-20 Either Hornwort or Egeria Densa (?)
15-20 beautiful, broad-leaf, fast grow (?)
3 clumps of Mondo Grass
1 Med. Amazon Sword

Supplements:
Root tabs in substrate near/between plants
CO2 injection: bubble 1/sec. to impeller

Water quality history w/notes:
"<" means before measurement
">" means after measurement

Date pH GH KH NH3 NO2 NO3 
Notes

06/21 7.6 4 13 0 0 0
< 1-wk: setup substrate, plants, meas./adj. pH daily
> Add 10" Placo & 3 orange Neons
> Removed Placo next day
> Meas. NH3 daily: 0

06/28 7.2 - 8
> Exch. 13 gal. de-ionized water
> Add home-made CO2 injection, pos. at intake

07/04 7.2 3 8 0 2.0 7
> Exch. 25 gal. de-ionized water
> Check water quality again

07/04 6.8 2 7 - 0.5 3

07/06 7.6 3 7 0 0 5
< Siphon gravel, leaves
> Removed, pruned, rooted, replanted
> Added medium size "African Root"

07/10 7.6 3 7 0 0 5
< Observed cloudy water [milky)
> Turned off 2nd (2-bulb) light.
> Added 10 black Neons
> Changed 1 filter cartridge

07/12 7.2 4 10 0 0 0
< Observed very cloudy water: can't see end to end
< Observed tiny, white worms?
< Exch. 35 gal. de-ionized water
< Added Electro-rite to 5 gal
< Changed 2nd filter cartridge
> Observed water somewhat clearer
> Observed return to same cloud next 4 days
> Observed blue-green algae on sand, rocks, some plants over next 5 days

07/19 - - - - - -
< Siphoned blue-green algae
> Exch. 20 gal. de-ionized water, add Nitro-Zorb

07/22 7.2 3 10 0 0 2.5
> Observed clearer water, no worms, still cloudy
> Observed increase snail population
> Crush snails on glass while small, clear
> Siphon larger snails on sight

Questions:

1. How can I clear up my water without endangering the plants or fish?

2. Is the cloudy water an indication of a bacteria bloom and/or plankton?

3. Could stirring up the bottom during pruning have caused this cloudy water condition? If so, how do I prevent it in the future?

4. What could be causing my pH and KH to continuously rise? What more can I to to get it to dropt to around 6.8 so I can add some angelfish? I now only use de-ionized water. I've added some African Root. I've added CO2 injection and the plants are flourishing. I've read that all of these things are supposed to contribute to lowering pH.

5. What could be causing the tops of my Columbia Carolina to turn yellow? I've read that this can be from iron or potasium deficiency. Is this true? I've since added more root tabs, but haven't seen any dramatic changes. Lower leaves seem to be greening up, though.

6. Why don't my Ottocynclus eat all the brown algae? They munched on the crops that were on the rocks and Mondo Grass, but didn't seem to do much with the layers that settled on some of my Columbia Carolina.

7. Where can I find Siamese Algae Eaters?

8. How can I identify my most prolific plant? I've browsed plant sites, but can't seem to find it. Most sites I've visited are organized by scientific name or genus. I need photos. This plant has hardy, square trunk with opposing, broad, bright green leaves. Roots sprout at the leaf stems along trunk. Cuttings easily root. Has pronounced viens. Usually first to get algae strings on leaves.

9. What can I do to get my Mondo Grass to grow so I can get cuttings to re-plant?

10. Is there a place I can temporarily post digital photos so some of you can see what I'm talking about?

Thanks for enduring this long post. I appreciate any constructive criticism or advice from the experts.

--Cal Webster

Here to serve...


----------



## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> 1. How can I clear up my water without endangering the plants or fish?


 If you want it done now either a UV sterilizer or a diatom filter will clean up the water. However you need to find out what is causing the cloudy water or it will return.



> quote:
> 
> 2. Is the cloudy water an indication of a bacteria bloom and/or plankton?


 It could be either one. But in fresh water there is no plankton in the traditional sense. But there is green water which is a single celled algae. At the beginning of a GW attack the water looks cloudy. I have to ask if your CO2 injection is pressurized or yeast based? The reason is if it is yeast based it's possible that some of the yeast mixture has gotten into the tank. This will cause the cloudy water also.



> quote:
> 
> 3. Could stirring up the bottom during pruning have caused this cloudy water condition? If so, how do I prevent it in the future?


 It's possible, depending on the type of root tabs you used. If you used some with large amounts of nitrates and/or phosphates then you could have gotten large amounts of these nutrients into the water column and this can cause a GW attack. Solution is to NOT use root tabs under plants you are going to be moving often.



> quote:
> 
> 4. What could be causing my pH and KH to continuously rise? What more can I to to get it to dropt to around 6.8 so I can add some angelfish? I now only use de-ionized water. I've added some African Root. I've added CO2 injection and the plants are flourishing. I've read that all of these things are supposed to contribute to lowering pH.


 Your kH and pH rising indicate the presence of a carbonate based material in the tank. Do you have any shells in the tank as decoration? Any rocks? Shells are a no-no. Check rocks and substrate with muriatic acid, make sure they are dry and then place a drop of the acid on them. If they smoke, bubble, and/or fizz then they are carbonate based. You need to quit adding the pH down as it could be causing some of your problems. The only way you should lower pH in a planted tank is with the use of CO2. Your kH is way to high for the effective use of pH Down anyway. What are your tap water reading for pH and kH. Please draw the water and let it sit for at least a few hours before you test the pH. Angelfish will handle higher pH and kH if they are used to it. You might not be able to get them to successfully breed but they will do fine.



> quote:
> 
> 5. What could be causing the tops of my Columbia Carolina to turn yellow? I've read that this can be from iron or potassium deficiency. Is this true? I've since added more root tabs, but haven't seen any dramatic changes. Lower leaves seem to be greening up, though.


 I think you mean Cabomba caroliniana. It's feeds more from the water column so root tabs don't help it a lot. Most of us dose potassium and iron into the water column. Also your nitrate levels are a bit low. And do you know what your phosphate levels are? And it could be your lighting. Some shop lights under-drive the bulbs and they all have very poor reflectors for aquarium use. You would be better off with a good 110 watt CF fixture than the shop lights.



> quote:
> 
> 6. Why don't my Ottocynclus eat all the brown algae? They munched on the crops that were on the rocks and Mondo Grass, but didn't seem to do much with the layers that settled on some of my Columbia Carolina.


 It's possible they are full. I find no mention of the stocking level of Ottos in the tank. And are you sure it's brown algae? If it is another type of algae they may not eat it. And I hate to tell you this but Mondo Grass is not an aquatic plant. You might as well pull it out and get rid of it.



> quote:
> 
> 7. Where can I find Siamese Algae Eaters?


 A good local fish store. Make sure YOU can identify them. There is at least one thread here with pictures to help you out.



> quote:
> 
> 8. How can I identify my most prolific plant? I've browsed plant sites, but can't seem to find it. Most sites I've visited are organized by scientific name or genus. I need photos. This plant has hardy, square trunk with opposing, broad, bright green leaves. Roots sprout at the leaf stems along trunk. Cuttings easily root. Has pronounced viens. Usually first to get algae strings on leaves.


 Check the Plant Database here, get a good book.



> quote:
> 
> 9. What can I do to get my Mondo Grass to grow so I can get cuttings to re-plant?


 Pull it out of the tank. Plant it in a pot or the dirt and leave it there. It's not an aquatic plant.



> quote:
> 
> 10. Is there a place I can temporarily post digital photos so some of you can see what I'm talking about?


 I'm betting your ISP provides you with space for a web site. That's a great place to put the pictures.

Some general thoughts. You are chasing your tail here with the use of pH Down and either lack of information or bad information. You have had many algae problems and have really not addressed what is causing the algae. Your filtration is really not enough for your tank. It is not providing nearly enough water movement. You might want to think about getting a cannister filter. HOB filters are not a good choice for planted tanks as they tend to cause a lot of surface turbulence and release your CO2. I have not figured out your CO2 levels because your use of pH Down has invalidated the pH/kH/CO2 chart. Heavy pruning and replanting with root tabs in the substrate is going to cause you problems.

The worms are harmless.

Moderator










American by birth, Marine by the grace of God! This post spell checked with IESpell available at http://www.iespell.com

See my Profile for tank details.


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Stratified:
> This is my first post to this group.


Welcome to the AB forums, Cal.



> quote:
> 
> 1. How can I clear up my water without endangering the plants or fish?


Let conditions in your tank settle down and just wait it out. The tank is very new and you haven't given it enough times to come to its own balance.



> quote:
> 
> 2. Is the cloudy water an indication of a bacteria bloom and/or plankton?


Almost certainly.



> quote:
> 
> 3. Could stirring up the bottom during pruning have caused this cloudy water condition? If so, how do I prevent it in the future?


If you disturbed the root tabs when you stirred up the substrate then the nutrients released from the substrate may have contributed to the problem, but that doesn't sound like the real reason. Normally anything you stir up from the substrate settles down again in a couple hours or less. It isn't something to be concerned about.



> quote:
> 
> 4. What could be causing my pH and KH to continuously rise? What more can I to to get it to dropt to around 6.8 so I can add some angelfish? I now only use de-ionized water. I've added some African Root. I've added CO2 injection and the plants are flourishing. I've read that all of these things are supposed to contribute to lowering pH.


The KH in your tank was fairly high to start with and it has drifted around as a result of your water changes and pH down additions. Possibly something in your tank (gravel, most likely) is dissolving to add additional buffering and causing pH to rise.

You don't need a pH of 6.8 to keep or even breed angelfish.

You have too many things going on in your tank right now. It's new and you keep adding things and changing water. You need to let conditions settle down. Stop adding pH down at least for now -- chances are that in the long run it will cause you more trouble than it will do you good. Stop using DI water for water changes. In fact, don't change water at all until the water clears up and things settle down. When things do settle down you will probably be better off using tap water for your water changes.



> quote:
> 
> 5. What could be causing the tops of my Columbia Carolina to turn yellow? I've read that this can be from iron or potasium deficiency. Is this true? I've since added more root tabs, but haven't seen any dramatic changes. Lower leaves seem to be greening up, though.


Could you mean Cabomba caroliniana? Yellowing new growth usually indicates a lack of iron or any of several other minor nutrients. You need to get your tank stable before you consider adding anything else to that brew.



> quote:
> 
> 6. Why don't my Ottocynclus eat all the brown algae? They munched on the crops that were on the rocks and Mondo Grass, but didn't seem to do much with the layers that settled on some of my Columbia Carolina.


Otos are little fish. You might be expecting a little too much from them.



> quote:
> 
> 7. Where can I find Siamese Algae Eaters?


Good luck with that. Hopefully someone here will be able to point you to a local source.



> quote:
> 
> 8. How can I identify my most prolific plant? I've browsed plant sites, but can't seem to find it. Most sites I've visited are organized by scientific name or genus. I need photos. This plant has hardy, square trunk with opposing, broad, bright green leaves. Roots sprout at the leaf stems along trunk. Cuttings easily root. Has pronounced viens. Usually first to get algae strings on leaves.


It sounds to me like Hygrophila corymbosa. You should be able to find pictures and compare. Check in the plant database forum here.



> quote:
> 
> 9. What can I do to get my Mondo Grass to grow so I can get cuttings to re-plant?


Mondo grass does not grow well submersed. You should replace it with something that does grow well submersed. Various varieties of Vallisneria and Sagittaria should work better.

Good luck,
Roger Miller


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## countrymouse (Jul 6, 2003)

I'm not nearly as expert as our real plant gurus, but I have some guesses, based on your very thorough information.

Sounds as though your tank is still cycling; remove the nitrazorb, because it will slow down the process.

_1. How can I clear up my water without endangering the plants or fish?_

The bacterial bloom will not harm your fish or plants. It will clear up on its own.

_2. Is the cloudy water an indication of a bacteria bloom and/or plankton?_
The cloudy water sounds like a bacterial bloom.

The tiny worm-like things you're seeing are not uncommon and most likely came in with the plants. Once you get your fish population up the worms will get eaten.

_3. Could stirring up the bottom during pruning have caused this cloudy water condition? If so, how do I prevent it in the future?_ If this is something you stirred up from your substrate, I suggest you purchase or borrow a canister filter with some mechanical media that is fine enough to remove the particles. All the Magnum filters come with a pleated cartridge that will do the job nicely. I also recommend that you add another filter to your tank anyway. The 30-60 will not give you adequate mechanical filtration.

_4. What could be causing my pH and KH to continuously rise? What more can I to to get it to dropt to around 6.8 so I can add some angelfish? I now only use de-ionized water. I've added some African Root. I've added CO2 injection and the plants are flourishing. I've read that all of these things are supposed to contribute to lowering pH._

I didn't notice anything in your substrate list that should raise kh, unless the sand on the bottom layer is coral sand meant for saltwater tanks. I don't know where you're getting any kh reading at all since you've nearly replaced all your water with deionized water, unless it's the Electro-right. I can't remember wheter it adjusts kh or not. A steady and adequate supply of CO2 should stablize your kh and pH; you probably need to adjust your recipe.

_5. What could be causing the tops of my Columbia Carolina to turn yellow? I've read that this can be from iron or potasium deficiency. Is this true? I've since added more root tabs, but haven't seen any dramatic changes. Lower leaves seem to be greening up, though._ 
I think you mean "cabomba caroliniana." Your use of deionized water is probably causing a calcium deficiency. Cabomba takes up nutrients from the water column. You need to add both calcium chloride (Kent Liquid Calcium, for instance) and magnesium sulfate (epsom salt) in small amounts. I like a gh of around 6, which is also where I keep my kh. Baking soda is adequate for raising kh when you need to.

_6. Why don't my Ottocynclus eat all the brown algae? They munched on the crops that were on the rocks and Mondo Grass, but didn't seem to do much with the layers that settled on some of my Columbia Carolina._

It may not all be the same algae, even though it's the same color.

_7. Where can I find Siamese Algae Eaters?_
That I don't know.

_8. How can I identify my most prolific plant? I've browsed plant sites, but can't seem to find it. Most sites I've visited are organized by scientific name or genus. I need photos. This plant has hardy, square trunk with opposing, broad, bright green leaves. Roots sprout at the leaf stems along trunk. Cuttings easily root. Has pronounced viens. Usually first to get algae strings on leaves.

Square stems usually indicate the mint family; could be one of the hygrophilas? Not sure, though.

9. What can I do to get my Mondo Grass to grow so I can get cuttings to re-plant?

It will grow once you get your tank balanced.

10. Is there a place I can temporarily post digital photos so some of you can see what I'm talking about?

You can create photo albums for free at Sony Imagestation (www.imagestation.com). Then you can provide a link to your photos.

If your sand is coral sand or beach sand, you will probably need to take everything out and start over, but don't do that until you get responses from more experienced aquarists.

________________________
Still a work in progress_


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## countrymouse (Jul 6, 2003)

addendum: looks like we were all three posting at the same time! They're right about the Mondo grass. I apologize for reading too fast and just seeing "grass." Take it out.

________________________
Still a work in progress


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## Stratified (Jul 23, 2003)

Wow! This group really is active! Thanks for the quick response.

First, to answer some of the quesions:

[CO2] Yeast-based, home-made, using instructions and formula from the krib. I was careful not to overfill it. I see no evidence that any of the broth has escaped.

[Root Tabs] I did not plan to move any of the plants, but they grew so fast that I had to re-arrange to make room for cuttings.

[High pH KH] I suspected something in the substrate. My original setup used sand and agregates from Lowe's which I verified to be raising alkalinity by testing pH of plain water and water with agregates over time. I scrapped that plan and started over with materials purchased from a local "Bill's Pet Shop". The labels said they would not affect water quality. The gravel appeared to be coated with some kind of sealant. The slate should be neutral in terms of alkalinity. Can't tell if the sand was coated, but I'll check that first. I don't have any muric acid, but could I use vinegar? I've stopped the pH Down treatments.

[Cabomba caroliniana] Yeah, I got the name mixed up with my favorite coffee. I'll look into adding some micronutrient supplements after my water settles down. I Hope they don't die first. I really like them.

[Otto's] I did some more reading about SAE and it seems to me that they would probably take care of most of what the otto's leave behind, even the old beard algae. Local pet stores only stock what their suppliers have on hand at a given time. I doubt they even know what an SAE is. I'll probably see about buying some on the web. I read SAE identification thread carefully so I think I can differentiate them from others.

[Prolific Plant] I'll look for "Hygrophila corymbosa" as Roger suggested.

[Mondo Grass] So, it's not an aquatic plant. The resident expert at the pet store told me that it was aquatic. I'll pull them out and look into some of the truly aquatic "grasses" as Roger suggested.

[Substrate Stirring] When I first did the re-planting I noticed some cloudiness until the next day when it cleared up. It wasn't until 2 or 3 days afterward that the "bloom" occurred.

[DI Water] I'm going to defer all water changes until the cloudiness clears up. I'm curious why you would recommend not using the DI water, though, Roger. Doesn't it offer better control over water quality, especially hardness?

[Tap Water Quality] I did a water quality profile of my tap water when I first got my DI filter. I also did one on water from the carbon block filter that I feed into the DI filter. I have an Amway WTS which is excellent at removing all but the minerals from tap water. It did seem to raise the KH slightly, though. I have no phosphate test kit - didn't see any in the pet shop. Here are the results:

Date pH GH KH NH3 NO2 NO3
06/21 7.2 5 12 0 0 0 (Tap Water)
06/21 7.0 5 13 0 0 0 (Carbon Filter)

[Canister Filter] Thanks for the suggestion on the filter type, Rex. A friend of mine that used to keep fish recommended "Eheim" filters. When I've got some available cash, I'll look into that.

[Photos] Thanks for the link to ImageStation, countrymouse. I've got a business class Road Runner setup - no free pages and my residential account won't work on the personal pages since I've got a commercial IP address. Here's a link to some images of the tank. The captions contain dates they were taken.

I put photos of my placo in there too. Had to remove him from the planted tank after he tore it up. Unfortunately, the only other tank I have is my original 5 gal. Know anyone who wants to trade for him? I'm looking for some SAE and angels after my water problems are fixed.

My 55 gal. Aquarium

More Questions:

1. How can I infer the CO2 from the pH/KH? I've seen the charts but I'm not sure how to read them.

2. Won't the high (7.6+) pH levels endanger the fish? They were pretty active and eating well before I stopped dosing pH Down. Now some of them are behaving erratically and none are eating well. I've even spotted "Ick" on the new Black Neons.

3. I know this is off-topic, but I'm just wondering what to use for the Ick on my tetras. The medicine I have says not to use on tetras.

Thanks again for all the advice!

My 55 gal. Aquarium

--Cal Webster

Here to serve...


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Stratified:
> Wow! This group really is active!


You bet!



> quote:
> 
> [Root Tabs] I did not plan to move any of the plants, but they grew so fast that I had to re-arrange to make room for cuttings.


Just a comment, and not just for Cal's sake... Root tabs and jobes spikes probably shouldn't be used in recently setup aquariums. There is always some substrate disturbance while people get a handle on which plant they want and where they want to put them. Root tabs are best used on established "rosette" plants and only after things are well settled-in.



> quote:
> 
> I don't have any muric acid, but could I use vinegar?


Vinegar isn't strong enough to give a dependable reaction. You can get muriatic acid at home stores and pool stores.



> quote:
> 
> [DI Water] I'm going to defer all water changes until the cloudiness clears up. I'm curious why you would recommend not using the DI water, though, Roger. Doesn't it offer better control over water quality, especially hardness?


I recommend against using it -- especially when an aquarist is pretty new with aquatic plants -- because it usually doesn't help, and it makes regular maintenance more complicated and more difficult.

It absolutely does not help control hardness; your tank has hardness in it and the DI has little or none in it, so each time you add the DI your hardness changes. If you want controlled hardness then you need to use a water supply that is similar to the water in the tank.

As a last little bit, a lot of what the DI filter takes out of water is actually necessary for plant growth. Calcium, magnesium, potassium, chloride and sulfate are all essential nutrients and DI filters lower the concentration of all of those.

Your Tap water KH is a little high. Is this softened water? After you have things stable you might want to resume water changes with a 50/50 mix of tap water and DI water.



> quote:
> 
> 1. How can I infer the CO2 from the pH/KH? I've seen the charts but I'm not sure how to read them.


Since you have been adding a buffer (pH down) to the tank,you can't infer CO2 from pH and KH. It will take a long time to get the pH down out of your water, so don't even worry about measuring CO2 yet.



> quote:
> 
> 2. Won't the high (7.6+) pH levels endanger the fish? They were pretty active and eating well before I stopped dosing pH Down. Now some of them are behaving erratically and none are eating well. I've even spotted "Ick" on the new Black Neons.


Fish withstand elevated pH pretty well. They won't all breed at high pH, but that's a different matter. The high pH does increase the toxicity of ammonia, so you do need to be careful that your feeding is under control and your filter is in good shape. The erratic behavior and the Ick probably have little or nothing to do with the pH. They're more likely to be stressed by the effects from your bacteria bloom and the other changes that you have been putting them through.



> quote:
> 
> 3. I know this is off-topic, but I'm just wondering what to use for the Ick on my tetras. The medicine I have says not to use on tetras.


It's been too long since I treated Ich, so I can't really help much. I'll offer three bits:

Ich and most other fish diseases are a symptom of stress. Fish have pretty effective immune systems,but the effectiveness of their immune system drops when they are stressed. If you can keep the fish unstressed then the fish will rarely if ever fall ill.

Don't treat fish diseases in a planted tank. Remove the fish and treat them in a bare tank. Plants sometimes respond poorly to medications, and the complexity of the planted tank reduces the effectiveness of the medication.

Specifically for ich, raise the tank temperature -- you might be able to go as high as 90 degrees. That accelerates the life cycle of the ich parasite and boosts the fishs' immune response. You can sometimes treat ich with nothing more than an increase in temperature.

Good luck
Roger Miller


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## Stratified (Jul 23, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Your Tap water KH is a little high. Is this softened water? After you have things stable you might want to resume water changes with a 50/50 mix of tap water and DI water.


No, no softeners. These coastal counties of NC all have pretty hard municipal water. I'll certainly follow your advice on the 50/50 mix. It should be easier to stabilize the hardness once I find the culprit that is raising it.



> quote:
> 
> Since you have been adding a buffer (pH down) to the tank,you can't infer CO2 from pH and KH. It will take a long time to get the pH down out of your water, so don't even worry about measuring CO2 yet.


I'll check back with the group about measuring after 3 or 4 more water changes, then. Generally speaking, though, does 1 bubble per minute, difused by the pump impeller sound adequate?



> quote:
> 
> Fish withstand elevated pH pretty well. They won't all breed at high pH, but that's a different matter. The high pH does increase the toxicity of ammonia, so you do need to be careful that your feeding is under control and your filter is in good shape. The erratic behavior and the Ick probably have little or nothing to do with the pH. They're more likely to be stressed by the effects from your bacteria bloom and the other changes that you have been putting them through.


I must have a pretty good bio filter since I've only once even registered a tiny bit of ammonia and that disappeared quickly. I don't overfeed and filters were just changed a few weeks ago.



> quote:
> 
> Don't treat fish diseases in a planted tank. Remove the fish and treat them in a bare tank. Plants sometimes respond poorly to medications, and the complexity of the planted tank reduces the effectiveness of the medication.
> 
> Specifically for ich, raise the tank temperature -- you might be able to go as high as 90 degrees. That accelerates the life cycle of the ich parasite and boosts the fishs' immune response. You can sometimes treat ich with nothing more than an increase in temperature.


It's going to be an adventure trying to catch all the neons. The only bare tank I have is the 5 gal. my placo is in. He's pretty tough, though. I just need to find out what to use if the "Ich Away" isn't the right treatment. Do you think that 13 neons will be okay in a 5 gal. tank with an 11" placo if it's just for a few days?

Did you look at the photos with the link I inserted before? It's still not clear, but it looks like the water is beginning to clear up. Just to be sure I understand what to do about the bacteria bloom, let me reiterate.

No water changes.
Full lighting 12 hours/day.
Continue CO2 enrichment.

I really appreciate the thoughful advice from everyone. Thank you! Maybe someday, when I get enough water changes under my belt, I can return the flavor.

--Cal Webster

Here to serve...


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## Rex Grigg (Jan 22, 2004)

One bubble a second on a 55 gallon tank with a HOB filter is not enough. In fact DIY CO2 on a 55 gallon tank is hard to do. Fluctuating CO2 levels will cause you problems. You will want to get a pressurized system as soon as possible.

Moderator










American by birth, Marine by the grace of God! This post spell checked with IESpell available at http://www.iespell.com

See my Profile for tank details.


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## Stratified (Jul 23, 2003)

Thanks Rex. I can't spend any more money on this tank for a while. The DIY CO2 and HOB filter will have to suffice for now. How about if I add a small air stone to the CO2 output and add more yeast to the brew to increase the rate and yield smaller, more numerous bubbles?

I did find the culprit that has been raising the KH and keeping the pH high. Believe it or not, it was the "black slate".

I found a gallon of muriatic acid in my garage left over from cleaning spots off my driveway. Using a plastic straw as a pipette, I put a few drops on thorougly dried samples of my substrate and slate. None produced any fizzle until I got to the slate. It boiled wildly.

This is upsetting for two reasons.

(1) I carefully researched properties of candidate materials after my wasted trip to Lowes when I had to replace all my agregates and stones, starting from scratch. Articles at the Krib indicated that slate does not affect water hardness.

(2) When I purchased my substrate materials and slate at the local pet shop, I repeatedly insisted that I needed only materials that would not affect pH. All of the bagged materials stated this on the labels. The slate came in a cardboard box with no such assurance. However, the owner assured me that it was "safe".

Well, on the bright side, at least I won't have to rip out all my plants and replace the entire substrate. Also, not having the rock sculpture will make it easier to catch the neons for treatment.

My vision of my aquarium still has a rock sculpture on that end of the tank. I like the look of stacked slate arrangements too.

Do you think that it was just this particular kind of slate? Is there a particular type that is truly neutral in terms of hardness?

Is there a list somewhere of materials that can be used in aquariums and their hardness properties (i.e. raise/lower KH/GH)? If not, I'll just go out colleting with my muriatic acid.

I suspect that many of my problems will be diminished once I get the pH/KH down to reasonable, stable levels. Impurities are less toxic to fish. BGA retreats. Everybody is happier.









I'll watch the hardness closely after removing the slate. I suspect that it will try to drop quickly what with the CO2, bogwood, and pH Down already in the water. I may remove all but one or two pieces first to reduce the chance of fish stress.

I'd like to clear up something you mentioned earlier in this thread concerning pH Down. You indicated that it invalidated the KH/pH/CO2 chart. While reading in the General group, I found a post by Jon Mulzer that seems to contradict this assertion:

"The KH-pH table is based on the assumption that carbonate buffers are the only ones present in the water. It is when you are adding buffers other than carbonates. Like phosphates."

You said earlier that pH Down would invalidate the KH-pH table. The pH Down label says "Contains no phophates". If there are no phosphates, can I assume that it uses carbonates? You may have been thinking of the other AP product "Proper pH" which does have phosphates. I purposely stayed away from this product because of the phosphates. So, knowing that there are no phosphate buffers in the water, can we calculate the CO2 using the table?

Re-reading my post, I realized that I didn't answer one of your earlier questions about fish load. Current fish load:

9 Otto (Juvenile)
3 Orange Neons (mature)
10 Black Neons (Juvenile and "Icky")

What about putting the "Icky" fish in my 5 gal tank with the placo to treat? Would that be too many fish for the time it takes to treat? Do you think the placo would be stressed by it?

Thank you for your suggestions. I value your advice and that of other senior members because it is based on experience. My time in the Marine Corps taught me many things, not the least of which was that I can do or know anything, but I can't do or know everything. I must rely on other members of the team to fill the gaps.

I would be interested in any suggestions you may have on overcoming the limitations of my equipment until I can afford to upgrade.

--Cal Webster

Here to serve...


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## Roger Miller (Jun 19, 2004)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Stratified:
> (1) I carefully researched properties of candidate materials after my wasted trip to Lowes when I had to replace all my agregates and stones, starting from scratch. Articles at the Krib indicated that slate does not affect water hardness.


That's right. Slate should not effect water hardness.



> quote:
> 
> (2) When I purchased my substrate materials and slate at the local pet shop, I repeatedly insisted that I needed only materials that would not affect pH. All of the bagged materials stated this on the labels. The slate came in a cardboard box with no such assurance. However, the owner assured me that it was "safe".


The names used to describe rocks in the aquarium trade often have nothing to do with the more usually accepted name for the rock. What you bought as slate probably was not.



> quote:
> 
> Do you think that it was just this particular kind of slate? Is there a particular type that is truly neutral in terms of hardness?


Yes, it was just this type. Most slate won't bother yoru pH, GH or KH. The best thing you can do is take some of your muriatic acid with you in a dropper bottle and test anything you want to buy.



> quote:
> 
> You said earlier that pH Down would invalidate the KH-pH table. The pH Down label says "Contains no phophates". If there are no phosphates, can I assume that it uses carbonates?


No. Carbonates would raise the pH, not lower it. Any buffer -- phosphate or not -- that you add to the aquarium makes it impossible to use the CO2 charts. The fundamental assumption behind those charts is that bicarbonate is the *only* effective buffer in the water.

Being a non-phosphate buffer, the pH down might be a little easier to remove, but it still makes it impossible to use the charts.

Roger Miller


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## countrymouse (Jul 6, 2003)

I want to make a comment about what Rex said about DIY CO2. It is really difficult to do on as large a tank as a 55. I'm like you - can't afford to switch right now, so I'm stuck with it for a while. (Planning to ask for equipment for Christmas, though!) 

Here is the recipe I'm using, in case it might help. I'm getting 19 ppm with this, so it is working. I use a one-gallon rubbermaid container and mix 2 cups sugar with 1/2 gallon water and 2 teaspoons baking soda. I put the container in its place under the tank, pour in 2 teaspoons of regular activated baking yeast (buy it in jars - it's much cheaper), and - this is important - leave the yeast floating. (It will gradually sink on its own). For whatever reason, leaving the yeast floating "jumpstarts" production of bubbles, and I have bubbles within 15 minutes. My HOT Magnum is my reactor/diffuser, and does an excellent job. The jumpstarted version lasts a week and a day for me.

I have been told (Where is Steve Hampton?) that using active brewers' yeast will greatly extend the life of the mixture, so I'm going to order some asap. I believe Steve said champagne yeast lasts longest. 

Btw, Roger is right about the pH/kh relationship for calculating CO2; anything you do to artificially change pH - even using peat - nullifies the results you get.

________________________
Still a work in progress


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## Stratified (Jul 23, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> When you say the charts assume that bicarbonate in the only effective buffer, where does the bicarbonate come from? Isn't it leached into the ground water from rock strata and/or organics in the ground?


Bicarbonate is a natural part of almost all water, whether it's ground water or not. It is usually what we measure when we measure KH.



> quote:
> 
> Why would peat nullify the results? Doesn't it leach tannic acid like bog wood and African root?


Yes, and some of those acids act like buffers, which is the problem. Peat is well known for the effects it has. Driftwood seems to have a less dependable effect. Sometimes it seems to leach organic buffers into the tank water, usually it does not.



> quote:
> 
> Is Roger saying that CO2 reacts to create bicarbonates, which bring down the KH and pH?


Normally the CO2 does not react to form a measurable amount of bicarbonate, so adding CO2 doesn't change the KH. Adding CO2 changes the ratio between CO2 and KH in the tank. In the absence of other buffers that ratio determines the pH.

Roger Miller

[This message was edited by Roger Miller on Sun July 27 2003 at 11:49 AM.]


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## countrymouse (Jul 6, 2003)

CO2 only lowers pH, not kh. Unless peat lowers kh as well as pH, (and since I don't use it, I don't know), then it would make the chart invalid. If it does lower kh, then I suppose using the chart would be fine. So I could have misspoken.

You get fast bubbling already? Wonder why I have to leave yeast floating to get that? Everybody whose comments I've read also indicate that their mixes take at least half a day to begin producing bubbles. Now I'm dying to know why yours is different. LOL, if I were a cat, I'd _need_ nine lives!

Btw, a lot of people have said that using airstones with CO2 is a bad idea, and that they get clogged and cause the generator bottle to blow up. If you're running the tubing into your filter intake, your impeller will do a fine job of breaking up the bubbles, so you don't need the airstone anyway.

Cool tip about the t-shirt material!
________________________
Still a work in progress


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## Stratified (Jul 23, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by countrymouse:
> You get fast bubbling already? Wonder why I have to leave yeast floating to get that? Everybody whose comments I've read also indicate that their mixes take at least half a day to begin producing bubbles. Now I'm dying to know why yours is different.


I think the main reasons are:

[Warm Water] Thinking back to the last time I made bread, I used very warm water (not hot). My bread never took half a day to rise. Then, while still warm, I put it in the reactor. Within 15-20 min. there was a froth on top and bubbles of CO2 coming out. The actual rate I didn't measure, but while frothing it would be reasonably fast. It would then taper off to a less than 1 bubble per min and gradually ramp back up. I think this had to do with the mixture cooling off. The culture is obviously more active in warm water.

[De-chlorinated Water] As we all know, chlorine is not good for any animal or plant, including humans. Years ago I invested in a good carbon block water treatment system (called the WTS by Amway). All water used in our house for cooking or preparation is treated. It removes chlorine like any other cabon filter, but also removes harmful bateria (even dead ones) and other chemicals, but leaves the disolved minerals. Anyway, I think the lack of chlorine is most important when it comes to the yeast culture.

[Priming the tubing] Before attaching the cap, I blow into the tube to purge all the water. Then, if water returns to the tube after capping the reactor, I give it a little squeeze. Slightly loosening and re-tighting the cap equalizes any vacuum created by the squeeze. The check-valve prevents water from traveling back up the tube. When I first setup the reactor, I watched impatiently as the water line got further down the tube.



> quote:
> 
> Btw, a lot of people have said that using airstones with CO2 is a bad idea, and that they get clogged and cause the generator bottle to blow up. If you're running the tubing into your filter intake, your impeller will do a fine job of breaking up the bubbles, so you don't need the airstone anyway.


I seem to remember reading that too. I was willing to change air stones periodically if it would improve my CO2 absorption. However, when I still couldn't detect any bubbles this morning I realized that the air stone was restricting the flow too much for the natural production of CO2 to overcome. I realized also that my check valve had come loose and CO2 was escaping.

I've discarded the air stone and re-built my reactor. I'm now using a 1-gal plastic water jug with 3 quarts of water, 3 cups of sugar, 3 teaspoons of baking soda and 3 teaspoons of yeast. Instead of super glue I used "JB Weld" epoxy resin to permanently and completely seal the check valve to the cap. As soon as it cures I'll be adding the yeast to the container of sugar water as you suggested.

Thanks!

--Cal Webster

Here to serve...


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## Stratified (Jul 23, 2003)

WOW! You were right about the reaction after dropping the yeast on top. Using the formula I mentioned above, it was producing bubbles in just over 5 minutes. In fact, it's producing so much CO2 that I'm worried it might be too much. 

There are so many bubbles coming out that I can't count them. I've positioned to tubing so it goes partway into the bottom of the intake tube, creating a sort of trap where there's always water in the tubing. This seems to make the CO2 bubbles smaller. 

There was an initial burst of CO2 that lasted about 3 minutes. Now I'm getting 15 second bursts off and on. If this doesn't taper off, I may re-adjust the formula to slow it down a little. I'm measuring the pH every hour and watching the fish.

--Cal Webster

Here to serve...


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## countrymouse (Jul 6, 2003)

Hmmm... a 3/3/3 formula - I'll be interested to know what kind of CO2 levels you get with that, and how long it lasts.

Going back to your post just above this one, I use warmish water (just slightly warm to the touch). My tapwater comes from a non-chlorinated well, so no dechlor needed. Hadn't thought about possible bacteria in the water affecting the yeast, but I _could_ boil water and store it for CO2 use. I don't really know how many bubbles per second I'm getting, since I didn't install a bubble counter, but I'm going to correct that, so that I can tell when production is beginning to slow down.

________________________
Still a work in progress


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## Stratified (Jul 23, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by countrymouse:
> Hmmm... a 3/3/3 formula - I'll be interested to know what kind of CO2 levels you get with that, and how long it lasts.


I think I'll changing the mix to 3Qt/3Cup/2Tsp. This is way too much CO2. The plants are pearling like crasy, but pH is already beginning to drop. Before installing the new reactor it was 7.4. At 8:00 PM it was at 7.2. I'm afraid I'll wake up to find floating fish. If the pH drops to 7.0 I'm changing the mix and restarting.



> quote:
> 
> I don't really know how many bubbles per second I'm getting, since I didn't install a bubble counter, but I'm going to correct that, so that I can tell when production is beginning to slow down.


I've never seen a bubble counter. How does it work? Does it count actual bubbles or volume or what?

--Cal Webster

Here to serve...


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## countrymouse (Jul 6, 2003)

Hi Cal,

I wondered whether you might have too much yeast for your 55; sounds like a good idea to back off to 2 tsps. 2 cups sugar and 2 tsps baking soda should be sufficient as well. In my case I get adequate levels of CO2 by morning, and slightly higher levels by the 2nd day. 

To set up a bubble counter, you can have the tubing from your generator go into a second bottle half filled with water, with the end of the ingoing tubing down in the water. Then attach the tubing going into your tank into another hole in the top of the bubble counter bottle. I just came across a DIY description advising that if you drill the holes a little bit small and cut the tubing at an angle, you won't need to silicone it or worry about leaks. I think I'll try it with the bubble counter, but I've already siliconed my generator lid. 

Oh, and maybe in regard to using the table; if anything other than your kh is setting your pH, then you'd have to do some extra math to use it, because the table is based on the relationship between kh and pH. Anything other than kh that changes your pH skews the results. Hope that makes sense. It occurs to me that if you know exactly how much a chemical has changed your ph, you could add that amount to find the true pH shift caused by the CO2. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

________________________
Still a work in progress


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## Stratified (Jul 23, 2003)

I wasn't thinking straight when I increased the volume of the mixture. I just wanted to see if I could get your CO2 output, but make it last longer. The CO2 output is obviously a function of the amount of active yeast producing it within a given concentration of sugar water. Increasing the yeast naturally increased the output.

This last batch seems to produce a more reasonable stream of CO2. I still can't count them but I'd say it's at least 2/3 less. I kept the same concentration of sugar/water/baking soda (3/3/3), but used only 2 tsp. yeast thoroughly disolved. I'm hoping it'll last at least 2 wks. My 1.5 ltr mix in the Pepsi bottle was lasting over a week.

I couldn't find where you said what size tank you have. Is it also a 55 gal.? Are you supplementing nutrients to your plants? You probably don't have to do much since you are starting with well water.

So, with the DIY counter you still have to physically observe the number of bubbles exiting the tube? Let me know how that works, please.

I stopped using the pH Down as Rex advised. I didn't like putting that much acid in the water anyway. I don't think keeping the pH down is going to be a problem now that I have the "bad" slate out. Now I'm glad that my KH is naturally high, though. It should prevent catastrophic pH swings. 

Also regarding the table, I'm not sure how much the African Root will affect it. I have never noticed any change in pH after adding it, but that's probably because of the slate keeping the pH/KH high. I hate having to take it out. Like the rock sculpture, I like the way it looks in the tank.

--Cal Webster

Here to serve...


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## countrymouse (Jul 6, 2003)

Sounds as though you've solved the problem.







I have a 55 gallon and a 20 gallon tank, both planted, but the 20g plants are less demanding. I think I've learned that with the well water I don't need to supplement trace elements (including iron here in red clay country), but the 55 did run out of nitrates, so I fertilize with potassium nitrate (for nitrates) and potassium chloride (for potassium). Our well water is unusually soft, also, and I have to add magnesium (epsom salts) and calcium (Kent Turbo Calcium), and I use baking soda to raise the kh to 6.

With 2 tsps yeast, I don't think you have to worry about the CO2 being too much. That's the amount I use in the generator for the 55. If 3 c. sugar and 3 tsp baking soda keeps yours going steady for 2 weeks, let me know. I'd like to get 2 weeks out of mine. Shucks, I just might try it anyway!

Noticed you're from NC, too; is Newport in the coastal area?

________________________
Still a work in progress


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## Stratified (Jul 23, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by countrymouse:
> Sounds as though you've solved the problem.
> ...


So the 55 gal. is the one with the DIY CO2 on it? Good, 'cause I made that assumption when I read your CO2 formula. It might have thrown me off it was a different size.

Red clay, hmmm... must be near Georgia, huh? I've never been on well water. It must be hard to keep your shower-heads and faucets clear. Do you have to treat the water for use in the kitchen?

I always seem to have enough nitrate, as measured by my AP test kit. It's been between 3-10 since shortly after I added the fish, but usually hovers around 5. That's enough isn't it? I guess my fish produce enough waste to supply the bio filter. What is your fish load like?

I'm not sure about potassium since I don't have a test kit. What indications would I get if I were short on potassium? Where does one find raw potassium chloride, anyway?

I don't think I'll have to worry about raising the pH with baking soda. I should be able to adjust by varying the mix of filtered tap and DI water. Tap water here has a KH of 10-12.



> quote:
> 
> With 2 tsps yeast, I don't think you have to worry about the CO2 being too much. That's the amount I use in the generator for the 55. If 3 c. sugar and 3 tsp baking soda keeps yours going steady for 2 weeks, let me know. I'd like to get 2 weeks out of mine. Shucks, I just might try it anyway!


I think my pH has stabilized now at 6.8, after almost a full day at a steady rate of about 4 bubbles per second. Although they still come out in groups, I watched them go through the intake tube when I had the pump off. I'll let you know how long it lasts.

I went ahead and removed the African Root until I've stabilized the pH for a while. I want to get the optimized CO2 concentration before tinkering with pH again. Once I get a handle on the CO2, I'll add back the wood and see how much it affects the pH.



> quote:
> 
> Noticed you're from NC, too; is Newport in the coastal area?


Yeah, it seems there are quite a few tarheels in these groups. Newport is almost due West of Cape Hatteras. It's in Carteret county about 10 miles from Atlantic Beach/Morehead City.

--Cal Webster

Here to serve...


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## countrymouse (Jul 6, 2003)

> quote:
> 
> Originally posted by Stratified:
> Red clay, hmmm... must be near Georgia, huh? I've never been on well water. It must be hard to keep your shower-heads and faucets clear. Do you have to treat the water for use in the kitchen?


We're north of Charlotte, NC. We do get a little bit of silt, but not enough to have to treat the water. Only enough to regularly clog the filter for the washing machine.



> quote:
> 
> I always seem to have enough nitrate, as measured by my AP test kit. It's been between 3-10 since shortly after I added the fish, but usually hovers around 5. That's enough isn't it? I guess my fish produce enough waste to supply the bio filter. What is your fish load like?


5 ppm is fine for nitrate. My fish load is, I think, on the heavy side, but I have a lot of fast-growing plants, too, so the plants are taking up all the nitrates.



> quote:
> 
> I'm not sure about potassium since I don't have a test kit. What indications would I get if I were short on potassium? Where does one find raw potassium chloride, anyway?


 I think there is a test kit for potassium, but it seems I remember that what it actually measures is turbidity; I doubt it gives a very accurate reading. Using the calculator at Chuck's Aquarium Page (which recommends a target level of 20ppm), I figured the dose to be 1 1/4 tsp per week, but that's assuming that you change half the water each week. You can order potassium chloride online; do a Yahoo search for "potassium chloride" and several chemical supply stores should come up.



> quote:
> 
> I don't think I'll have to worry about raising the pH with baking soda. I should be able to adjust by varying the mix of filtered tap and DI water. Tap water here has a KH of 10-12.


True, you won't need to raise your kh.



> quote:
> 
> I think my pH has stabilized now at 6.8, after almost a full day at a steady rate of about 4 bubbles per second. Although they still come out in groups, I watched them go through the intake tube when I had the pump off. I'll let you know how long it lasts.
> I went ahead and removed the African Root until I've stabilized the pH for a while. I want to get the optimized CO2 concentration before tinkering with pH again. Once I get a handle on the CO2, I'll add back the wood and see how much it affects the pH.


Sounds good!

________________________
Still a work in progress

[This message was edited by countrymouse on Mon July 28 2003 at 06:19 PM.]


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