# Substrate layer question



## fishmanejr (Jan 9, 2008)

I've read a little about putting a sprinkling of peat moss on the bottom of the tank before adding other substrate(s). 1) How beneficial is this? 2) I raise earthworms for my pet tiger salamanders and larger fish and have ground coconut fiber bedding that has been ~85% converted into worm castings. Can I use this as the base layer instead of peat moss?

My planned substrate setup for my up and coming 75 gallon:
layer 1: worm castings made from ground coconut fiber bedding (still ~15% ground coconut fiber)
layer 2: one 10lb bag of schultz aquarium soil, two 20lb bags of eco complete aquarium substrate, and one 55oz/3.44lb bag of first layer laterite - all mixed together. I might add a second box of laterite.
layer 3: a mixture of what looks like fluorite and course sand (it came with the tank)

I'm expecting the layers to be ~1/4", 1.5", and 1.5" respectively.

Any comments or suggestions are more than welcome! Thanks!


----------



## bradac56 (May 9, 2007)

Small bags of peat moss is commonly used in Discus or killfish tanks to release tannins that lower the
PH in an aquarium (crushed coral will do the same without releasing tannins) is that what your trying
to do? Coconut fiber (Coir) will also release the same tannins as peat moss but not lower the PH so
it can be safer but it's only real purpose is to grow grindal and white worms not as a substrate material.

Your using a really heavy amount of Eco and laterite (normally you use more SMS that eco) so if your
intent is to grow worms I'd stick with the coir and not the moss. Keep in mind the Eco is going to
screw with your water parameters enough and adding peat moss will make it worse.

- Brad


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

Coral is calcium carbonate. Crushed coral adds calcium and carbonates to the water. This increases both the GH and the KH. A KH increase will raise the pH unless more CO2 or tannins are also added. So, coral does not lower pH as peat moss does.

People have used worm castings as a layer in substrates for many years. In fact just about every imaginable nutrient rich "soil" has been used by someone for a lower substrate level. The advantage of having a nutrient rich substrate is that it gives the plants two surfaces for nutrient uptake - the roots and the leaves, instead of just the leaves. But, you can grow plants in plain coarse sand if you do water column dosing of fertilizers, so such nutrient rich substrates are only necessary for a few plant species, if any.


----------



## bradac56 (May 9, 2007)

hoppycalif said:


> Coral is calcium carbonate. Crushed coral adds calcium and carbonates to the water. This increases both the GH and the KH. A KH increase will raise the pH unless more CO2 or tannins are also added. So, coral does not lower pH as peat moss does.
> .


Opps thanks for the catch! Shows I shouldn't be posting this late at night as I got my threads
and methods mixed up.


----------



## fishmanejr (Jan 9, 2008)

The reason I wanted to include the worm castings was to have a rich substrate. I chose the laterite for its iron content, the Schultz for its high CEC, the eco for its "mineralogic completeness", and the fluorite/course sand mix simply because it came with the tank. Otherwise, I probably would have gone with completely eco for the top layer. I understand plants will grow in most any substrate with proper water column fert's., but I don't know that I trust myself to be diligent enough to routinely test and dose accordingly. I am hoping to promote optimum growth by offering both venues of nutrient uptake as you described.

Before planning this setup, my only planted tank has been a low budget 10 gallon with ~3 wpg regular fluorescent "plant" bulbs, course sand that I collected myself from a local river as substrate, and dosing with fluorish after water changes . . . . if I remembered to do so. I'm still learning and am afraid I'm not completely up to par with all the hobby lingo just yet. SMS = ?

I read on other threads that, as you mentioned, the eco will mess with my hardness, but will no longer do so after a few water changes. Is this correct or should I expect something else? I use re-constituted RO water, so adjusting the parameters accordingly during water changes is not too difficult.

Thanks, I appreciate the input!


----------



## bradac56 (May 9, 2007)

SMS = 'SoilMaster Select' top soil.

And yes the Eco-Complete will stabalize after a few water changes becouse it's been washed in
Calcium Carbonate at the factory (that's directly from the CaribSea website).

Actually as iron heavy as your going you probably won't have to do more than a macro fert for
awhile. Something easy like a 7ml dose of Flourish Excel once every morning but hoppycalif and
the 'Science of Aquatic Fertilizing' forum would be better at answering that question.

- Brad


----------



## hoppycalif (Apr 7, 2005)

fishmanejr said:


> ......but I don't know that I trust myself to be diligent enough to routinely test and dose accordingly. ........ I use re-constituted RO water, so adjusting the parameters accordingly during water changes is not too difficult.


It isn't necessary to test and dose accordingly. You can use PPS Pro or Estimative Index dosing and not have to bother with testing or figuring out how much of what to dose. Both allow you to dose a fixed amount of the same ferts every dosing day.

Why are you bothering with RO water? For almost all of us tap water is just fine for growing plants, and actually contains many of the nutrients plants need. If you use RO water you just add another set of variables to keep track of and control. That is a technique best left for the very experienced aquatic plant growers who have already mastered the basics. Far better to concern yourself with dosing fertilizers than reconstituting water.


----------



## fishmanejr (Jan 9, 2008)

I'm bothering with RO water because my tap water is very hard and very alkaline. The fish I keep prefer soft acidic conditions that I can only create by re-constituting water.


----------

