# Tropica plants



## fishdude1984 (Feb 17, 2005)

dose anyone out there know why we cant get Tropica plants in the USA, is it just that they dont want to sell them here are is it something to do with US laws? and is there any way to get them legaly?


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## Simpte 27 (Jul 16, 2004)

Due to shipping restrictions, you can't get them in the U.S.


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## MiamiAG (Jan 13, 2004)

That's correct. The USDA doesn't allow Tropica plants because they are grown in rockwool.


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## fishdude1984 (Feb 17, 2005)

really?, i thought rockwool, was used in the potted plants my lfs gets from Florida Aquatic Nurseries


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## gnatster (Mar 6, 2004)

Yes, it's rockwool that already in the US. Regulations state that all roots must be bare and free of soil and other encumberances. So that makes the sterile media inspected by the EU for shipment all over the EU, Asia and into Canada not welcome in the US. Please be sure to thank your congressmen for protecting you from yourself...again.


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

I thought rockwool _was_ sterile.

What a stupid pointless regulation.


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## gnatster (Mar 6, 2004)

The regulation is intended to keep dirt or soil and the nasties it carries out of the US. Unfortunately it carries over to all substrates on the roots. While the spirit of the law is good the practicality for us is onerous. I believe there was time when Tropica tried to petition the powers that be but alas that did not work.


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## MiamiAG (Jan 13, 2004)

Correct, the requirements the USDA put forth would price each plant at around $50.


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## Gumby (Aug 1, 2005)

I've heard that as long as plants are shipped bare root then customs/USDA will clear them... True?


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## fishdude1984 (Feb 17, 2005)

well how do we change this law? i think we should try!


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## MiamiAG (Jan 13, 2004)

Gumby,

Not necessarily. They can inspect them. If they don't have the appropriate paperwork, they can get confiscated.

Fishdude1984,

It has been tried. Claus of Tropica even went to go speak to the USDA back in 96/97.


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

Surely tropica could import their stem/bunch plants?

How is Oriental Aquarium able to import?


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

I talked to Claus at the 2002 AGA and he said that it wasn't worth the effort to make it happen given the market here. Maybe we can make things happen if we show them otherwise and try hard enough.


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## JaySilverman (Jun 19, 2005)

I just wish they didn't only send to buisnesses. I don't want to deal with the stores they ship to here.


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## trckrunrmike (Jan 31, 2005)

In Hong Kong, its about $12 US a pot. They were in very good condition and algae free...maybe from the tons of SAEs they use.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

> Correct, the requirements the USDA put forth would price each plant at around $50.


I don't believe that for a second. I can import plants from all over Asia, even potted plants, They simply ship the plants separate from the pots and the wool. Tropica could ship plants the same way if they so chose, in bulk, but that is not part of their marketing image.



> I talked to Claus at the 2002 AGA and he said that it wasn't worth the effort to make it happen given the market here. Maybe we can make things happen if we show them otherwise and try hard enough.


And the market in Canada is bigger than the USA? Nothing Tropica has ever said about this issue has ever made any sense at all. And this business about Tropica plants being so sterile and algae free... any plant from a nursery is usally algae free. It is the length of time it sits in a store display tank that it collects algae


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## JaySilverman (Jun 19, 2005)

So Robert, why don't you think they don't ship to the states?


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

I think they do not want to conform to the regulations for whatever reasons, beyond that I have no idea.


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## JaySilverman (Jun 19, 2005)

You honestly think, with all the money they could make by selling to the states, its a matter of principle? Who runs a buisness that way?


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

> And the market in Canada is bigger than the USA? Nothing Tropica has ever said about this issue has ever made any sense at all.


Actually, I'm surprised they've even bothered with Canada. Do they really have the base for supporting Tropica sales? Like here in the USA, it's still very much a niche hobby (although that's starting to change). One might wonder if their experiences in Canada have affected any plans to sell here. Throw in our overregulation, and you might have a serviceable answer.



> And this business about Tropica plants being so sterile and algae free... any plant from a nursery is usally algae free. It is the length of time it sits in a store display tank that it collects algae


They may be nice plants, but there's not much of anything they sell that can't be obtained here anyway.


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Cavan Allen said:


> They may be nice plants, but there's not much of anything they sell that can't be obtained here anyway.


True. But then again what about the patented cultivators they offer and the fact that you are completely sure it is the species you are looking for (ie. Microsorum var 'narrow leaf' vs var 'needle leaf').



Robert Hudson said:


> And this business about Tropica plants being so sterile and algae free... any plant from a nursery is usally algae free. It is the length of time it sits in a store display tank that it collects algae


Doesn't this all go back to the fact that they ship their plants emersed.


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

For me it's more of a question of quality.

When I walk into an LFS that sells aquatic plants I can tell right away whether they are selling Tropica plants or not. If they're not, more often than not the plants are tiny and scraggly looking and you just *know* that you're going to have to slowly nurse the thing to have a chance of bringing it to full healthy life.

One LFS around here decided to switch to Tropica. As soon as the first shipment from Tropica was in their show tanks, the existing plant stock (non-Tropica) stopped selling immediately. When you see Tropica quality next to others, you can really tell the difference.

On the other hand, you do pay more for Tropica plants...


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

I know that most Tropica plants at some time go through tissue culture. I bet that very few or perhaps none of Tropica's plants come with any hair algae. Of course, they may pick up hair algae in the retailer's tanks. Just think what a bonus it would be if the hobbyist could get all his or her plants free of hair algae.


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

And free of snail eggs as well!


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## RTR (Oct 28, 2005)

When they do grow their plants in rockwool, do you really expect them to unpot every plant and clean it off fully to ship it through customs/inspection bare root, then pot it back up for distribution? Now there is a great way to go out of business from excessive costs. 

Frankly, I do not blame them a bit. US import regs are incompatable with their way of doing business, they are long-established and widely respected. It is totally their call as to whether or not they want to open a US facility to duplicate what they already have at home. I gather that they are not interested, so that is that.


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

Raul-7 said:


> True. But then again what about the patented cultivators they offer and the fact that you are completely sure it is the species you are looking for (ie. Microsorum var 'narrow leaf' vs var 'needle leaf').


Yes, their plants are healthy and correctly labeled. If I needed large quantities of plants to start up a new tank, you bet I'd like to have access to their stuff. But again, you can find all that if you really want to. I guess what it comes down to is quality and convenience.

Needle leaf? I'll believe that when I see it.


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

> Actually, I'm surprised they've even bothered with Canada. Do they really have the base for supporting Tropica sales?


That was my point. I have never really heard anyone from Canada, and there are plenty in this forum, jump up and down over Tropica Plants, or expressed that they are overly impressed with them. And if all their plants are grown in rockwool, how come pictures of their facilities show huge greenhouses with growing pools? It would be nice to have access to their plants, particularly those that are unique cultivars, but even those usally end up in Asia eventually. Big Als in Canada is evidently one of the largest Tropica importers in Canada

Sure, it would be nice to have plants algae and snail free, but most stores would not order direct from Tropica, they would have to have a wholesale distributor here in this country. If I was selling Tropica Plants, I guarantee they would NOT always be algae or snail free! I'm sorry, but I am not Tom Barr, my tanks are not always perfect


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## aquaessentials (Dec 15, 2004)

HeyPK said:


> I know that most Tropica plants at some time go through tissue culture. I bet that very few or perhaps none of Tropica's plants come with any hair algae. Of course, they may pick up hair algae in the retailer's tanks. Just think what a bonus it would be if the hobbyist could get all his or her plants free of hair algae.


Tropica grow all of their plants emersed. This not only allows the plants to remain algae/snail free but also means they are more adaptable when placed in aquariums for the first time. Any algae would therefore only ever be picked up from receiving tanks.


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## JaySilverman (Jun 19, 2005)

I'll tell you guys what, I'll go to my Big Als store here in canada and ask them to order a whole bunch of plants from Tropica. I'll ask him to call me the day they arrive so they won't have to put them in their tanks to wait for me to pick them up. I'll then bring them home and do a whole lot of close up photographs of these plants exacly as how they arrived. We will see how good these plants are.

I now need some suggestions on the plants I should order.
I need a lawn type plant. Anything but e.tenellus micro. I already have that. Any suggestions? How about HC and glosso?

I also need a middle ground plant that doesn't get too high. I currently only have A.nana and C.becketti.

I have a 55watt ahsupply bright kit over a 25 gallon tank with pressed co2.


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## MiamiAG (Jan 13, 2004)

Robert Hudson said:


> I think they do not want to conform to the regulations for whatever reasons, beyond that I have no idea.


Robert,

I was involved with the negotiations with the USDA and Tropica. Trust me, the reason they don't sell into the US *is* because complying with USDA regulations would price them WAY out of the market. You couple that with the small plant market in the US and it just doesn't make business sense.

Most Tropica plants are grown in rockwool. There are a few that are grown in pools simply because of the nature of the plant. However, it doesn't make sense to only send the plants that are not grown in rockwool to the US.

The USDA regulations require that the plants come in "bare root" OR that the nursery sending the plants meet VERY stringent nursery requirements. Even Tropica's excellent facilities would need to be modified to meet those stringent requirements. If you take this added cost and tack it on to the plant prices, you end up with VERY expensive plants.

That being said, Robert, are you saying that you are importing plants from Asia that come in rockwool?


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## MiamiAG (Jan 13, 2004)

Frankly, I am waiting for the day that one store (or maybe a few) has all the commercially available plant stock inhouse and ready to ship. That way, when I'm getting ready to set up a new tank, all I have to do is order the plants and they would all get delivered on the same day.


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

JaySilverman said:


> I now need some suggestions on the plants I should order.
> I need a lawn type plant. Anything but e.tenellus micro. I already have that. Any suggestions? How about HC and glosso?


www.Tropica.com or www.Tropica.dk has a great database of the plants they offer. But it would be nice to order some of their cultivators (Microsorum var 'Tropica' or 'Undulata'); that way you could help spread them around.  Or maybe some of the rarer foregrounds, such as Lilaeopsis mauritius. Then again HC would really nice among the E. tenellus.



Cavan Allen said:


> Needle leaf? I'll believe that when I see it.


http://www.venividivissie.org/viewtopic.php?t=5429 ; what is the plant that looks similar to the Microsorum genus.


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## omega (Apr 1, 2004)

Cavan Allen said:


> Needle leaf? I'll believe that when I see it.


This is a serious case of different hobbyists calling the SAME plant by DIFFERENT names. The "Needle Leaf" is commonly known in the United States as "Narrow Leaf". This plant is pretty common in the USA.

The "Narrow Leaf" that is known abroad is actually *not* commonly kept in the United States so it has *no* popular name. Those who do keep it also call it "Narrow Leaf". So in the USA, there is NO name disctintion between these two different narrow leaved varieties of ferns. 

This issue was discussed on APC many months ago. I found two threads that show the two different plants here:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=7425

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=6880


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## UniFish (Oct 5, 2005)

Robert Hudson said:


> That was my point. I have never really heard anyone from Canada, and there are plenty in this forum ...


As I recall, my first visit to a LFS was a pleasant one and it was also what motivated me to engage in the plant keeping hobby; the LFS's centerpiece was a tank of about 100 gallons filled with lush and healthy Tropica plants of varying shapes and colours, an aquatic garden really.

The initial plant that I bought was a Limnophila Sessiliflora and at $5 (CAD + no tax ) a piece, I aquired more and more over the following months.

Tropica plants are indeed synonomous with quality and beauty and just because we really like something, we do not have to necessarily be enthusiastic about it and go around telling everyone; has more to do with cultural context IMO.

Off to spoil myself with more Tropica plants for the holiday season [smilie=u:


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## JaySilverman (Jun 19, 2005)

I just ordered some glosso and HC from Tropica. Should be comming in the next couple weeks.


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## fishdude1984 (Feb 17, 2005)

i want some tropica plants, impossable to get where i live


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## brad (Jul 10, 2005)

Cavan Allen said:


> Actually, I'm surprised they've even bothered with Canada. Do they really have the base for supporting Tropica sales?


You`re right, tucked way up here with only Eskimos and igloos.

There are very very few nurseries in Canada while Florida already has quite few running well. Tropica has the opportunity to grab a good portion of the market here, even if some think we`re insignificant!

Either way, IMO Tropica is falling out of favor with many LFS as other suppliers from Singapore and elsewhere are emerging. Tropica certainly isn`t the cheapest and if the naive customer thinks he`s getting Tropica plants just by seeing the big Tropica sign, I`m sure the salesman won`t tell you any different.


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## Laith (Sep 4, 2004)

Art_Giacosa said:


> Frankly, I am waiting for the day that one store (or maybe a few) has all the commercially available plant stock inhouse and ready to ship. That way, when I'm getting ready to set up a new tank, all I have to do is order the plants and they would all get delivered on the same day.


Exactly what I did with the last two tanks I set up. Went to my favorite LFS, gave them a list of Tropica plants I wanted and my plant orders were shipped direct from Tropica in Denmark. Impressive packing as well.

Planted everything in one go.


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## tsunami (Jan 24, 2004)

When I went to Italy, I went to an LFS in Viareggio called Sea Box Aquarium (www.seaboxaquarium.it). I was very impressed with the store, and I was also very impressed by the quality of the plants they offered -- ALL Tropica plants:

http://www.seaboxaquarium.it/code/finestra-piante/piante3.html

http://www.seaboxaquarium.it/code/finestra-piante/piante5.html

http://www.seaboxaquarium.it/code/finestra-piante/piante2.html

These plants were definitely much healthier than ANY FAN plant I've seen in Miami or Chicago LFSes by quite a margin.

It is a shame that we don't have Tropica plants in the US yet.

Carlos


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

Seriously, most all of what I'd really like from them are types of bunch/stem plants, and they don't grow those in rock wool. It's too bad some stupid politics get in the way of making them some money from a market of people like me in the USA.


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

What do you all think about creating an online petition for tropica to at least import their stem/bunch plants to the USA?


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## Cavan Allen (Jul 22, 2004)

brad said:


> You`re right, tucked way up here with only Eskimos and igloos.


That was not an anti-Canada comment. I was only wondering aloud if the market was big enough.


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## BryceM (Nov 6, 2005)

Federal and State governments spend litteraly millions trying to eradicate and contain non-native species. If you wan't to get Tropica plants here in the US (I'd absolutely love it), its going to be an uphill battle. It's not like aquarium keepers have alwyas been model citizens. Some have released non-native fish and plants into the envirionment. You should have seen the commotion when someone caught a 10" piranha in the lake near where I grew up in cold, cold Idaho.


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## travis (Oct 5, 2004)

This is a fascinating discussion. I did not know that it was so difficult to get some of these plants, nor do I really care. As a group, the hobbyists here on APC provide an even greater variety of collectible species than Tropica can even approach. And they know that if their plants are not in spectacular shape that they will hear about it.

I have received more (and more spectacular species) of plants simply by trading with APC members (not to sell you short Robert - your plants rule  ) than I have ever gotten by ordering them online. This hobby is bootstrapping itself in the U.S. with hobbyist support. Don't ever overlook what you can find here on APC 

Viva la APC!


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

guaiac_boy said:


> Federal and State governments spend litteraly millions trying to eradicate and contain non-native species.


I also recently read about how there is now an established yellow tang population in the Florida coral reefs, and they're wrecking them. (Yellow tangs come from the indio-pacific.) It's believed they were introduced by aquarists.

However, this isn't the issue with Tropica. The issue is with a ban on importing live plants in rockwool. (Which should not be an issue with stem / bunch plants.)


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## Raul-7 (Feb 4, 2004)

Salt said:


> However, this isn't the issue with Tropica. The issue is with a ban on importing live plants in rockwool. (Which should not be an issue with stem / bunch plants.)


I believe all their plants are shipped potted and in rockwool.


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

doh


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