# ADA Substrates in El Natural



## Glouglou (Feb 21, 2006)

Anybody used the ADA system, Aqua Soil and Power Sand with succes in an El-Natural setup?


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## Satirica (Feb 13, 2005)

El Natural? No. Low Tech? Yes. Actually, just the Aquasoil -- not using the other products.

I think most people interpret El Natural to mean soil substrate though I could be wrong.


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## Glouglou (Feb 21, 2006)

*Hum!*

Do you know the raison behind the ban of this product in the El-Natural way.

I have difficulty with convention....


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## sb483 (May 29, 2006)

Glouglou said:


> Do you know the raison behind the ban of this product in the El-Natural way.


No one's banning anything. One of the main reasons El Natural setups recommend plain old garden or potting soil is that it's cheaper, and plants grow well enough in it.


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## JG06 (Nov 5, 2006)

> One of the main reasons El Natural setups recommend plain old garden or potting soil is that it's cheaper, and plants grow well enough in it.


I'm about 2/3's through the Walstad book and plain old garden soil sounds like the easier option too.


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## essabee (Oct 11, 2006)

Of the shelf substrate are not banned, how can they be banned when they are so convenient for the take it the easy way aquarist.

Some of us take it the hard way; follow a DIY advice; and some an even harder way of going where there is no advice to follow. This is true not only about substrate but entire system used for an aquarium. Then there are some who take one part of the system the easy way; but go the hard or harder way with another part.

One of the safe advices given to a newbie is follow only one expert at the LFS. This holds true even for the experienced aquarist, follow one acknowledged expert, for if you are out on your own you shall have schemes panning out or petering out.


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## schaadrak (Aug 18, 2006)

essabee said:


> One of the safe advices given to a newbie is follow only one expert at the LFS. This holds true even for the experienced aquarist, follow one acknowledged expert, for if you are out on your own you shall have schemes panning out or petering out.


But be careful who you take advice from at the LFS. Some of those guys are just there to sell, not to help keep your tank healthy.


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

Satirica, you're using Aquasoil in an NPT? It seems to be small clay balls, that can be smushed when wet, correct? Does it deliver a lot of nutrients? Do you cover it with anything (sand, gravel)?

I'm curious about this, and I agree, using those products would probably make the Low Tech tank fall out of the realm of El Natural, or Walstad-style, but as a low tech alternative, I'm curious.
-Jane


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## essabee (Oct 11, 2006)

Jane in Upton said:


> Satirica, you're using Aquasoil in an NPT? It seems to be small clay balls, that can be smushed when wet, correct? Does it deliver a lot of nutrients? Do you cover it with anything (sand, gravel)?
> 
> I'm curious about this, and I agree, using those products would probably make the Low Tech tank fall out of the realm of El Natural, or Walstad-style, but as a low tech alternative, I'm curious.
> -Jane


Can I dare to ask what difference it makes if one buys 'potting-soil' from a professional plant nursery or 'Aqua soil' from a professional aquarium company?


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

That's sort of what I'm trying to find out, too!

Besides the enormous price difference, I don't know much about the ADA brand product called Aquasoil. However, I got a bit in the rootmass of some plants recently, and was intrigued to find it has a feel which suggests a high clay content. The little balls of it remained quite distinct though, not mushing or sticking together unless I smushed one between my fingers. 

Walstad style tanks use a soil underlayer, whether its topsoil purchased by the bag or soil obtained from a local source - backyard, forest or field. Its generally a mix of loam, humus, silt, sand and gravel. The wide variation is why there are many questions about which ratios (and often requests for recommended brands) worked best for others. Some brands contain a lot of composted bark material. Several people have reported problems with those mixes which contained bark which was relatively "fresh". Problems included outgassing and excessive tannin release. 

The Aquasoil is created specifically for use in planted tanks. I'm intrigued by the small variation in grain size, yet uniformity in texture. Given my earlier experiences with a fertilized, capped clay substrate, this seems to me like a movement back towards the use of clay, yet the hard little balls keep their shape, and provide for a lot of interstitial spaces (between particles). Some folks are saying the Aquasoil keeps its discreet particles even three years in (ie, doesn't break down into mush). The Quackenbush (clay) methodology stressed the superior contact between root and substrate that the fine particles of clay afforded. But, the baked, hardened clay particles (kitty litter) eventually broke down. I believe that the eventual compaction of the particles, and the loss of interstitial space is the leading contributor to creating an anoxic situation. So, perhaps the Aquasoil product brings the positive attributes of clay, but avoids the downfall of compaction. I don't know, but perhaps those with experience will have some input on this. Also, another difference is that the proprietary Aquasoil also says its made with a nutritive value, so "fertilized" in a way. One thread I read even said it had ammonia bound to the particles.

So, Potting Soil, Top Soil and Collected Soil have a VERY different composition than the ADA brand Aquasoil. Its a very different substrate. That's the difference it makes. It can be used in a low tech setup, but is outside the parameters of soils discussed in Ms. Walstad's book. 

If folks BUY potting soil or topsoil, that's more a matter of convenience, or accessability. One poster laughingly pointed out that she lived in the heart of New York City, when another person suggest she just collect soil from her local forest. 

I am really interested in the observations anyone has using the highly targeted ADA Aquasoil product in a low tech environment. 
-Jane


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## schaadrak (Aug 18, 2006)

Is there a source of carbon in the ADA soil? I know topsoil and potting soil has organic materials that provide a carbon source, but is there anything like that in the ADA? That seems to be the only downfall I can think of (other than the price).


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## Calavera (Dec 3, 2006)

I have no answers but I must say that I'm very interested in how it would work, since I'm remaking my tank to a low-tech and have looked a bit at the ada products.
What do you think about mixing them? What would be the pros and cons about the ADA?


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## Satirica (Feb 13, 2005)

Jane in Upton said:


> Satirica, you're using Aquasoil in an NPT? It seems to be small clay balls, that can be smushed when wet, correct? Does it deliver a lot of nutrients? Do you cover it with anything (sand, gravel)?
> 
> I'm curious about this, and I agree, using those products would probably make the Low Tech tank fall out of the realm of El Natural, or Walstad-style, but as a low tech alternative, I'm curious.
> -Jane


Jane, sorry I missed your post. I have Aquasoil in one tank that is low tech -- no CO2 injection but water column ferts and Excel are added. AS is fired so it doesn't turn mushy in water.

This is an experiment for me. I'm going to be putting tonina and eriocaulon species in that tank (right now it has blyza, Ludwigia inclinata 'Cuba" and a hydrocotyle sp. in it that will be replaced, the HC will remain). There is a pic of the tank in the Nano tanks forum. I have fairly soft water, and AS purportedly is quite useful for plants that require soft water.

Right now the tank is about 2 weeks old and thus far I don't see any particular benefit to AS. However, I didn't expect to see it with these plants.


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## blyxa (Jan 1, 2007)

It has amazing results on my Blyxa which is extremely sensitive. The people there are exceptionally nice, just give them a call if you have questions.


Kaitlyn


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## Robert Hudson (Feb 5, 2004)

> Can I dare to ask what difference it makes if one buys 'potting-soil' from a professional plant nursery or 'Aqua soil' from a professional aquarium company?


Potting soil or top soil can be a number of different things, usually involving leaf mulch, cow manure or other forms of manure, compost and the like. It is usually very high in organic material that is rich in nitrogen and trace minerals. I don't think aqua soil is like that at all, but I don't know since I do not believe ADA ever provides a full guaranteed analysis of any of their products.

The point of using oranic soil is to provide as much nutrients to the plants via the substrate, (even c02 to a small extent from bacteria and decaying organics) where as aquarium substrates usually are made up of inert clay material, sand or volcanic rock that is free of organic material. Thats the difference as I understand it.


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## Jane in Upton (Aug 10, 2005)

Ah, Liz, that's interesting. I'd wondered if the ADA Aquasoil was fired. Kitty Litter (clay) is fired at low temps, and at about the one year point, while some pieces stay discreet, as soon as its disturbed, the majority will turn to mush (ie, replanting is a challenge). At the other exteme, Soilmaster Select is also derived from clay (although granted, the starting clay could have a very different makeup) which is HIGH fired, and renders it practically inert and with a hardness rating similar to granite bits. 

Good luck with the toninias and eriocaulon. I tried to grow two different Toninias last spring in an El Natural setup I'd ramped up to 3+ wpg lighting that was growing other "difficult" plants quite well, but I failed miserably. I did not make the entire tank very soft however, (GH was still in the "moderate-low" range if I recall), so you've probably got a good shot at it. Basically, you're supplying everything but the CO2 (nutrient rich ADA substrate, water column ferts, and Excel). How much light are you supplying? I've always seen those listed as CO2 being absolutely necessary, but given all the other parameters to its liking, I'll bet you're able to grow them!

And Bylxa, I've found B. japonica to do well in my soil substrate tanks, as long as the lighting needs are met (min. ~2.5 wpg). 

-Jane


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