# KH, GH Way Too Low - Aqua Soil, Need Advice!



## LindaC (Nov 7, 2005)

I put Aqua Soil in my 10 gallon planted tank, my plants seem to love this soil, they are taking off like crazy, however, when testing my water parameters this morning, I was shocked to see that my KH was less then 10, GH less then 20 and my PH is somewhere between 6.4 and 6.0. 

This tank is going through a cycle, thankfully I took my apistos out and put them in my 29 gallon and bought a couple of Danios to help with the cycle. I'm not even injecting CO2 into this tank but I ordered a small system from Red Sea.

Once this tank has cycled, if in fact it does with such a low PH, I want to put either my apistos or kribs in the tank and I would like to add CO2. Would my fish be in danger? I know I can raise the KH slowly by adding a little baking soda or maybe some crushed coral, but how can I bring up the PH and GH or do I even need to? If the PH is this low now, where's it going to be once I inject CO2?

I really love this soil and would hate to remove it. I have very soft water to begin with out of my tap, is this the problem? There must be other's out there who use Aqua Soil and have very soft water, what are you doing?


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## slickwillislim (Oct 11, 2005)

Why would you need to cycle the tank. If you have enough plants and seed the tank I wouldnt worry to much unless you really overstock or something. What kind of apistos do you have that you are worried about the ph. THe bacteria will still grow in the 6's. The species of apisto that I have actually prefers a ph lower than 6 for breeding. I dont know how low your ph will go with the introduction of the co2. I dont understand the introduction of crushed shells. I always thought that a main reason for using ADA was to have an acidic substrate and subsiquently a acidic tank. I will let other ADA aquasoil owner talk about the affec the co2 will have on the ph but since the only thing in there are danios you are using to cycle the tank I would try the co2 and watch the ph. If it doesnt drop significantly than Your fine if it drops to far off the scale than you might consider buffering the water with something. 

This is just my tired two cents.


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## chiahead (Dec 18, 2004)

As an AS user I have some recomendations. Never or almost never add fish to an AS tank for at least 2 weeks. 2 reasons for this, first the AS will leach some added ammonia initially. Not a big deal and will gow away quickly, but fish do not like ammonia. Secondly, the AS will drop the kh and gh really low. Again this is more initially and will fade away with time. This drop and with added Co2 will result in a ph below 6. Now I am in the middle of a crushed coral test with AS. I added it right away and left it in there during this period of low kh and gh. I had to add 1 teaspoon per gallon to keep it stable for the first 2 weeks. Also during the first week or so you should be changing the water at least 2-3 times a week. 

One other fact is fish can adapt to ph changes as long as they are not a rapid change. I thought all apisto's prefered a lower ph and softer water??? They should like this subsstrate then. But like I mentioned above, I do not recomend any fauna for at least 2 weeks.

Something else you posted confused me. You said that the AS lowered the kh below 10 and the gh below 20. Then later you said you had soft tap water. Now I assume the tap readings are higher then the kh-10 and the gh-20. Do you really think this is soft? Sounds extremely hard to me.

Another thing to think about is that you stated the plants really love this soil. If it is not broken then why change it? Just keep on the water changes(including the extra ones in the beginning) and wait till the tank is at least 2-3 weeks old. Then add some fauna. Good luck!


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## slickwillislim (Oct 11, 2005)

Listen to chiahead. Chia head seems to know a lot about the use of aquasoil. I never realized it dropped your ph so low. I guess I never though about the organics in the aquasoil. If it really does leach amonium which I have heard elsewhere than it was a good idea to remove the apistos but I dont really see the point still in having the danios.

In response the water hardness I assumed you where using ppm since you said the water was already really low and since you said less than 10 and 20 I assumed this was the low end of your test kit or something. This would equal about .57 and 1.12 degrees, pretty darn low. I guess this needs clarification. If it really is degrees than I am really shocked at the strength of aquasoil.


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## LindaC (Nov 7, 2005)

chiahead said:


> Something else you posted confused me. You said that the AS lowered the kh below 10 and the gh below 20. Then later you said you had soft tap water. Now I assume the tap readings are higher then the kh-10 and the gh-20. Do you really think this is soft? Sounds extremely hard to me.
> Good luck!


I called the lab that tests the water in the city where I live and the scientist told me that our tap water is 14.5 mpl out of the faucet. When I test the water in my tanks, the GH is usually at 40 ppm but when I tested it a week after adding the Aqua Soil to my tank, using Hagen Test kits, the water didn't even change to the color is was supposed to, meaning that the GH is lower then 20 ppm. Yes, I do really think this is soft, why would you think it is extremly hard?

I have a young pair of Apistogramma cacatuoides - orange flash, and a male Apisto agassizi red tail, I recently lost the female. I just got 3 young Kribs and I would much rather put them in the 10 gallon instead of the pair of apistos, only Kribs need a PH of 7.0. Kribs get too aggressive when they're spawning and I would really prefer not to have them around all my other fish, i.e, apistos and rams.

Come to think of it, the kribs are currently in my 29 gallon tank where the PH is around 6.6 - 6.5. I wonder if they would be okay in that tank with such a low PH.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

Linda,

I think people are getting confused because you are giving your GH and KH readings in parts per million. The majority of people that post on here give degrees of hardness. I'm not saying one or the other is right...just hoping to clear up the confusion. 

That being said, yes your readings are extremely soft. I see no reason to worry about Apistogrammas in soft water though. They and the kribs would both be fine in that tank, even with CO2 injection. CO2 can't push water below a pH of 5.0. It's only considered a mild acid.

I'm using Aquasoil with no buffers and my KH is somewhere between 0 and 1 degrees (similar to yours). I'm running CO2 and I have Niger Ottos (they spawned), American flag fish, shrimp and olive nerite snails. All of those fauna are doing quite well despite the extremely low pH.

Aquasoil is also not meant to be setup with fish right away. It does have ammonium and nitrate that it leaches out slowly for the first 4-6 weeks after setting it up. It is engineered to be setup fully planted without fish for those first 4-6 weeks. After it cycles and the plants have grown in well the fish are added then. Also, it is not recommended to dose any fertizilers in the tank for those 4-6 weeks either; only potassium as needed.


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## Salt (Apr 5, 2005)

One brief thing I'd comment on...

In the 2005 ADA catalog, there are a lot of pictures of gallery tanks as well as all of their specs, including KH and GH levels. A KH of around 10 ppm and GH of around 20 ppm with a ph in the 6.0 - 6.4 range is _very_ common. This includes tanks with lots of different types of fish.

It seems that these extremely low KH and GH levels are not only common but the norm for ADA tanks. It's probable that these low levels are key to making even very rare and difficult plants grow very well.


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## erijnal (Apr 5, 2006)

Sorry this is off-topic, but..

Aaron your Niger ottos spawned!? I hate you. Send me some babies! ;D


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

erijnal said:


> Sorry this is off-topic, but..
> 
> Aaron your Niger ottos spawned!? I hate you. Send me some babies! ;D


Aw, I love you too man.

Yeah, they only did it when the Aquasoil was new so I suspect soft water is the key. Apparently from what I read they spawn rather easily. I've only had a couple babies survive. The rest of the eggs I suspect became healthy snacks.


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## LindaC (Nov 7, 2005)

Thank you all so much, this is great news and pleases me very much. I love the way my plants are responding to this soil. I just tested the water and the amonia is rising and the nitrites are very high, toxic according to my test strips. I have been doing a lot of water changes, when I added this soil, my tank stayed cloudy for a number of days and that was with partial water changes. 

I do have one question, if you do not add fauna for 4-6 weeks, does the tank cycle on it's own with just the plants? Is that enough? See I was under the impression that you needed fish to cycle or at least cycle it a lot faster because that's how it's usually done. So it's this particular soil then, is this correct? 

I wanted to add AS to my 29 gallon but have no other tank to put my fish in, other than the 10 gallon, so I guess that's out of the question. I'm dissapointed, I currently have Seachem Flourite in the 29 gallon tank and I really don't like to looks of flourite at all.


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

Yes, the tank will cycle on it's own without the fish in that period of time. It's what's known as a fishless cycle. It does take a little bit longer without fish, hence the 4-6 week time period.


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## Ajax (Apr 3, 2006)

If you are planning to add shrimp you could add those at the 2-3 week period. I did after 2 weeks, and didn't lose a single one. It would give you something to look at at least :lol:


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## Robert Arnold (Apr 5, 2005)

I would think a heavily planted tank would take up the ammonium rather quickly, averting a spike. As its considered the nutrient of first choice, isn't it? 

I added four 9 liter bags of AS to an established 90G tank and kept all my fish in it. I'm only into the end of my second week and all fauna are fine, and after replanting a few times and 3 or 4 water changes (all 50%) the water is almost clear. Maybe slightly tinged by tannins.

My last two questions are how low did your pH go and how did you set your CO2 if the charts are in accurate and the pH & KH are below the chart's range? Thanks for any help here...


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## AaronT (Apr 26, 2004)

Robert Arnold said:


> I would think a heavily planted tank would take up the ammonium rather quickly, averting a spike. As its considered the nutrient of first choice, isn't it?
> 
> My last two questions are how low did your pH go and how did you set your CO2 if the charts are in accurate and the pH & KH are below the chart's range? Thanks for any help here...


The tank does use up ammonium rather quickly. The powersand keeps leaching it slowly for the first 4-6 weeks, hence there's no reason to dose for that period of time. Everytime I have done it I had a small outbreak of green water, but it goes away once things settle down.

The pH will get pretty low. I'd say mine is down to 6.0. Aquasoil is definitely not for African cichlids. 

Amano, and everyone else using Aquasoil just go by 'feel' to adjust their CO2 systems. Whatever bubble rate was working before should be fine. I like to start with 1 bps (bubble per second) and slowly work my way up.


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## LindaC (Nov 7, 2005)

My tank is doing very well, I never added the powersand, only the aqua soil, I just added pressurized CO2 ot the tank last Sunday and my apistos are doing well and so are the plants. The red tiger lotus that I have in the tank is becoming a monster, it's growing so quickly.

As far as knowing how much CO2 I'm injecting, I have no way of knowing due to the low ph and kh but the fish are doing well and so are the plants, so I'm leaving well enough alone at the present time.

I have a little more aqua soil left, as I didn't add the whole bag becuase I thought I had enough, what are people's thoughts on me adding the rest of it to the tank? Will it start another mini cycle or will it be okay? I'm hesitant becuase I do not want it to cloud up my tank again. It took a good couple of weeks to get it clear, with 40-50% water changes every other day!


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## Robert Arnold (Apr 5, 2005)

Thanks Aaron.

Linda, I poured two nine liter bags of AS in an established 90 gallon and three days later did it again. Pretty cloudy through a few water changes, but it has cleared up nicely now - the end of the second week. 

I did have a tiny spike of NH4 (1-2ppm) even after a bunch of water changes, so I added about 2 cups of zeolite to be on the safe side. Too many nice fish to take a chance on. I never added carbon, but that can help with the tinting. So be sure to check your ammonia if you add more. I haven't checked ammonia in years, and a fellow suggested it and I'm glad he did!


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## Moody (Sep 14, 2006)

I thought that when looking to house fish its the GH thats important.
I get cofused about the relationship between KH and Ph, Sooooo complicated!!


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