# Help finding cheap lighting? LED?



## FuzzyMuffin (Apr 28, 2014)

Hello, I'm trying to start up a 50-55gal El Natural (walstad) tank. However, I'm having a really hard time finding affordable lighting. The tank came with a hood, but the bulbs are florescent, not the right color and I'm pretty sure the fixture can't handle higher wattage, which would be needed.

I've been looking into LED things, but... well, I'm not a brainiac and need help. All the things I could purchase are around $100+ and I'm hoping to avoid spending so much. I'm not a handy person, but I can figure out some things, especially if I can coerce my dad into helping me as well.

What I'm asking is if somebody has any suggestions for me. Can anyone tell me flat out what they use and how it works, how much it costed, etc? Links and pictures are _extremely_ helpful!

I'm desperate to understand all this! Thank you!


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## Michael (Jul 20, 2010)

The least expensive lighting is common CFL bulbs. You will need 3 or 4 over a 55 gallon, use the 23 watt size, and get the highest color temperature that you can find. Color temperature is the Kelvin or K of the bulb, and the highest I have ever seen in a CFL is about 6500K. These are available in any hardware store, but you may have to shop around to get the high Kelvin ones. 

Put the bulbs in inexpensive task lights with adjustable arms, or really cheap clamp lights from the hardware store. Without being very handy, you can take the clamps off the clamp lights and mount the reflectors above the tank. Get fixtures that hold the bulbs vertically, with the screw base at the top. For technical reasons, the vertical position produces more useful light.


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## Kerry (Sep 5, 2013)

Another option is to get a4ft 2 lamp t5fluorescent fixture from your local hardware store...the generic shop light. Buy lamps that are 6500K 'daylight or cool white', but, be sure the kelvin rating is between 5000K and 8000K. If you can't find the right K lamps at the store, buy, aquarium lamps. They cost a lot more, though.


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

Michael said:


> The least expensive lighting is common CFL bulbs. You will need 3 or 4 over a 55 gallon, use the 23 watt size, and get the highest color temperature that you can find. Color temperature is the Kelvin or K of the bulb, and the highest I have ever seen in a CFL is about 6500K. These are available in any hardware store, but you may have to shop around to get the high Kelvin ones.
> 
> Put the bulbs in inexpensive task lights with adjustable arms, or really cheap clamp lights from the hardware store. Without being very handy, you can take the clamps off the clamp lights and mount the reflectors above the tank. Get fixtures that hold the bulbs vertically, with the screw base at the top. For technical reasons, the vertical position produces more useful light.


I'm not crazey about this idea but if do go that route you can get the dome ligh fixtures that hang from the ceiling are made for reptile tanks. I used to use these with CFL bulbs for my refugium. Yest there cheap about $12.00 per fixture and another $5.00 per bulb.

The way I would go though is with LED lighting. Since the tank is only 13" front to back you could get away a single strip. DIY cost about $15.00 for a 1"X 2" 48" alumnium channel. About $22.00 for a LED driver, and you still have 10 5 Watt LED's for an added $45.00. Well under your $100 budget. Remember the LED's will give you a lot more light per Watt than the CFL's.


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## BenChod (Sep 21, 2011)

$49.97 for fixture and get some 6500K bulbs another $20-30 depending on where you go/

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia...ty-Fluorescent-Shoplight-1284GRD-RE/202968125


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

For LED's I'd consider DIY.

Cost wise you for a 55 gallon tank you could get away with a single rail of 1 X 2" channel alumnium for under $15.00. For LED's I''d use 12 Cree 5 watt LED's splitting them up equally between neutral and cool whites for a cost of about $48.00. You would also need a LED driver which Meanwell makes many different ones but in your case I would get the 35 watt 700ma drivers at about $15.00. Then you would need some wire and heat sink epoxy for another $20. Total cost would be in the range of just under $100.00. 

You would only be running about 25 watts on these light but believe me LED lighting with the LED's rated at a max of 5 or 10 watt are much brighter per watt than any florescent lights. If you add CO2 in the future or want to use plants requiring more light you have the option to switch drivers where a Meanwell 60 watt 1040ma driver will take you up to about 40 watts and or a 1,400ma driver can take you up to about 55 watts. Cost for the change in driver would be about $25.00 for the bigger drivers.


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## PlantNewbie (Dec 4, 2009)

I build LED bulbs(tubes) that fit standard fluorescent fixtures 15w or 20w each bulb(tube). Have been providing them for dental offices locally because they want white light (6000K-7000K). They are full spectrum. I do the same with the standard screw in bulbs. Let me know if anyone is interested.

For the florescent tubes the 15w cost $37 and 20w cost $48. I only have enough parts to do the 18w now though will get another shipment in 3-4 weeks for the 20w.

The regular screw in bulbs I have 5w which is equivalent brightness to 150w halogen bulbs. I also have 15w bulbs but those are too much light in 1 spot to be efficient in a fish tank environment. I have been using them for the aquaponic system.

EDIT: The LED flourescent tubes is 120v so you do need to open the fixture and remove the ballast.


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

PlantNewbie said:


> I build LED bulbs(tubes) that fit standard fluorescent fixtures 15w or 20w each bulb(tube). Have been providing them for dental offices locally because they want white light (6000K-7000K). They are full spectrum. I do the same with the standard screw in bulbs. Let me know if anyone is interested.
> 
> For the florescent tubes the 15w cost $37 and 20w cost $48. I only have enough parts to do the 18w now though will get another shipment in 3-4 weeks for the 20w.
> 
> ...


This is an interesting concept that had seen before but did like the efficiency numbers and the spectrum from the ones I had seen in the past.

I had worked with a dentist on getting the lighting he desired in the past. Interestingly his main objective was geting a high CRI as close to 100 as possible which in florescent tubes was only available in the 5,000 to 5,500K range. This is very close to the Neutral White LED's from select bin codes from CREE.

I build my own LED fixtures for my tanks and will say that on a 48" long tank I have gone up to 12 60 Watt LED's that could run at up to 5 watts each for a total of 60 Watts and it does produce more light than any 3 bulb T-8 florescent fixture running 180 watts. In most cases I end up reducing the drive current to keep the light at a more moderate level with 1040 ma drivers giving me closer to 40 watts of LED light.


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## serenityfate1 (Sep 4, 2014)

If youre low on a budget try checking out the beamswork led, alot if members has great outcome with those fixtures including me! Not expensive too


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

serenityfate1 said:


> If youre low on a budget try checking out the beamswork led, alot if members has great outcome with those fixtures including me! Not expensive too


The 36" fixture is only 13 watts and 600 lumns per there specs. My suspicion is they are using some old designed LED's and the newer LED';s are giving well over 100 Lumns per Watt with some approaching 200 lumns per watt. Also they claim 8 atinic LED's at 460 nm if these are 460 nm then they are blue LED's as Atinic is in the 410 to 42 nm range.

Other than the efficiency this seems like a fixture that should work. But I would like to see a little more of the red spectrum for planted tanks than what the data leads me to believe you get.


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## serenityfate1 (Sep 4, 2014)

TropTrea said:


> The 36" fixture is only 13 watts and 600 lumns per there specs. My suspicion is they are using some old designed LED's and the newer LED';s are giving well over 100 Lumns per Watt with some approaching 200 lumns per watt. Also they claim 8 atinic LED's at 460 nm if these are 460 nm then they are blue LED's as Atinic is in the 410 to 42 nm range.
> 
> Other than the efficiency this seems like a fixture that should work. But I would like to see a little more of the red spectrum for planted tanks than what the data leads me to believe you get.


I bought the "led pent 130leds o.5 watt per led." 6500k. No reds or blue growth has been superb in my 40 b. And its a algae growing machine.. As for the red and blue spectrum why not diy led strip onto it.


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## chautrung (Mar 29, 2007)

If you're on a budget and just want a ready-to-go fixture, try the PlantEVO dual 3W by Green Element; they're only sale right now for less than $95 (48-51" version). I have a different version of it on my 56gal and the plants grow like mad!


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

serenityfate1 said:


> I bought the "led pent 130leds o.5 watt per led." 6500k. No reds or blue growth has been superb in my 40 b. And its a algae growing machine.. As for the red and blue spectrum why not diy led strip onto it.


Yes your comment "it is an algae growing machine" sums it up. When you have an excess of blue light your giving the algae a big boost and if you do not have enough red light you can be starving the higher level plants at the same time. This is an issue with many of the commercial fixtures.

There are three white LED families. Daylight or Cool whites usually around 6,000K to 7,500K that produce a strong Blue peak, the Neutral Whites that usually around 4,400K to 6,000K that have a fairly equal red blue balance, and the warm whites under 4,000K that have a strong red peak.

The point is you need a balance between the red and the blue peaks. different aquatic plants need more of one then than the other but they all need both for optimum growth. If you have an excess of either blue or Red your asking for trouble as most algae loves blue light and cyno bacteria loves red light.

There a differnet ways of getting this balance. with a combination of LED's in the right ratio. I like to combine Neutral Whites with Cool Whites. But others use Cool Whites with Warm Whites, Some use Warm Whites with Blue LED's, others use Cool Whites with Red LED's. But the ratio between the colors needs to be correct for any combination to work most efficiently. And dependent on the plants you selected the ratio may vary as well.

But all Cool or Daylights is asking for algae issues. And when you combine Cool Whites with Blue LED's your asking for a algae factory.


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## PlantNewbie (Dec 4, 2009)

TropTrea said:


> This is an interesting concept that had seen before but did like the efficiency numbers and the spectrum from the ones I had seen in the past.
> 
> I had worked with a dentist on getting the lighting he desired in the past. Interestingly his main objective was geting a high CRI as close to 100 as possible which in florescent tubes was only available in the 5,000 to 5,500K range. This is very close to the Neutral White LED's from select bin codes from CREE.
> 
> I build my own LED fixtures for my tanks and will say that on a 48" long tank I have gone up to 12 60 Watt LED's that could run at up to 5 watts each for a total of 60 Watts and it does produce more light than any 3 bulb T-8 florescent fixture running 180 watts. In most cases I end up reducing the drive current to keep the light at a more moderate level with 1040 ma drivers giving me closer to 40 watts of LED light.


The 18W tubes are 1800lm each and the 22w tubes is 2500lm much brighter than the 40w flourescent tubes at homedepot.


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

PlantNewbie said:


> The 18W tubes are 1800lm each and the 22w tubes is 2500lm much brighter than the 40w flourescent tubes at homedepot.


LED's should be much brighter than florescent tubes on a per watt bases. Cree has hit the 200lumns per watt rang in there test lab and has indicated these should be out for the public by the end of they year. Right now my lights with Cree LED's are a hair under the 150 lumns per Watt range meaning for the same 40 watts they should be around close to 6,000 lumns. Florescent will neve hit that level even with the highest quality reflectors.

But be ware there are loads of knock off LED's on the market that are under 60 lumns per watt or have a very poor light spectrum for growing plants.


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## micheljq (Mar 25, 2013)

serenityfate1 said:


> I bought the "led pent 130leds o.5 watt per led." 6500k. No reds or blue growth has been superb in my 40 b. And its a algae growing machine.. As for the red and blue spectrum why not diy led strip onto it.


Hello,

Many people have been using this Beamswork led fixture with success and no algae. If you have algae problems i suggest you look at other potential causes of algae issue. I doubt this fixture is the cause of your algae issue.

Michel.


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## PlantNewbie (Dec 4, 2009)

TropTrea said:


> LED's should be much brighter than florescent tubes on a per watt bases. Cree has hit the 200lumns per watt rang in there test lab and has indicated these should be out for the public by the end of they year. Right now my lights with Cree LED's are a hair under the 150 lumns per Watt range meaning for the same 40 watts they should be around close to 6,000 lumns. Florescent will neve hit that level even with the highest quality reflectors.
> 
> But be ware there are loads of knock off LED's on the market that are under 60 lumns per watt or have a very poor light spectrum for growing plants.


The led tubes that I build are for lighting purposes so they have a frosted diffuser so they light the area evenly not just one spot. Those numbers are from a light meter 4ft away from the tube. The measurements you refer to was the brightest point in a cree led which isn't how I measure them. Reading the values off of the brochure isn't reliable either if you don't have a meter.


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

I'm in the rocess of putting another group of 6 20 gallon tall tanks on line. I just purchased the LED's and driver for this using CREE XP-G2's in Neutral White and Cool White. I will have a total of about 40 Watts of LED lighting total on 120 Gallons. This is a slightly higher level of light than I'm using successfully on my 30 gallon and 15 gallon tanks. But the Lights will be 7" above the tanks instead of the 4" they are on my other tanks. Cost so far was $73.00 with shipping and taxes. I have the heat sinks on order and they should cost me under $22.00 with me picking them up from the metal shop. Total cost will be $95.00. 

I have used CREE LEDs in the past on full Reef tanks. On a 75 gallon tank I was getting a PAR meter reading of 257 evenly on the bottom of the tank and 2 inches below the surface reading in excess of 1,000. This was with 160 total Watts on a 90 gallon tank. I do not care what type of plants your trying to keep but this would be excess for any planted tank. 

And yes I tried the small 1/2 Watt LED's and they did not compare on a per watt bases to what the super bright modern LED's put out from either Cree or Phillips.


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## TropTrea (Jan 10, 2014)

PlantNewbie said:


> The led tubes that I build are for lighting purposes so they have a frosted diffuser so they light the area evenly not just one spot. Those numbers are from a light meter 4ft away from the tube. The measurements you refer to was the brightest point in a cree led which isn't how I measure them. Reading the values off of the brochure isn't reliable either if you don't have a meter.


If you look at your strip lights at 0.5 Watts per LED with 18 Watts total on strip (I'll assume it is 36") gives you 36 individual LED's spaced roughly 1" apart. On the other hand if I built a 18 Watt Fixture I would probably be running my LED's at 3 watts each for a total of 6 LED's that are 6 " apart. Yes with a 6" spread there is some shadowing if you have a shallow tank and put the the LED's less then 3" from the surface. However I use a 4" spacing normally and adjust the wattage with driver.. At a 4" spacing there is virtual no shadowing as long as the fixture is 2" above the surface. With the 4" spacing I end up running 9 LED's on a 36" strip. If I run them on a 350 ma driver it is 9 watts total, on a 700 ma driver it is 19.2 Watts total, on a 1040 ma driver it is 29.5 Watts total, and on a 1400ma driver it is 40.4 Watts.

I would put my light or several other designs using higher and new designed LED's up against any 0.5 Watt LED design and say it produces more light per Watt unless your using LEd's that are heavy in the green part of the spectrum which plants do not utilize but give high lumn measurements. But if you were to convert to a PAR meter rather than Lumns meter then the difference would be more obvious.

Your mention of frosted glass is another factor that would reduce light. Yes frosted glass does refract light in all directions giving a more even appearance but in the process it also absorbs light so it all does not get to plants. On the other end of the spectrum with individual high wattage LED's you can even go so far as adding lenses that are as narrow as 25 degrees. When people have tall tanks or plants growing out of the water it allows a greater distance between the light and the substrate. With a 25" degree lens an area only 18" in diameter can be lighted from a LED that is 41" above the substrate with no light loss spilling into the room.


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