# Where is the post: Warning, Illegal shipment and Customs! - Aquatic Magic



## edwardn (Nov 8, 2008)

I have marked this thread and followed what's going on with 'Auatic Magic', but today, when I tried to bring it back on my screen I'm constantly receiving this message:

"edwardn, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system? 
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation. "

Is the Amin of this Forum trying to discourage me from followin these developments?

I'm interested, because I'm also a victim of a dirty practices of "Aquatic Magic", discovering today that not only they send to me decomposed small plants with a big stench, and plants partly rotten - without a credit or replacement regardless what they have written in their e-mails, but they attempted to defraud me from an additional $40.90 ( for nothing, since I did not place another order!!!) after they shipped plants to me with the Custom Declaration stating that the package contains .... 'Home decorations' ( I retained their packing for proof )!!!

I managed to cancel that charge, but this only resulted in a statement that I refused to pay for the charge... 

I'm going to notify US Customs about 'Aquatic Magic' practices, as well as USDA and the Post Master. Also I'm going to raise a stench with E-Bay in order to ban them from unfair and crooked competition with american aquatic plants growers.

So where is that thread I'm asking for?


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

AquaticMagic's sponsorship is no more and their sponsor forum has been removed (and everything in it). For more information, you should probably contact an Admin. via PM or email.

I'm sorry to hear that you, too, had such a horrible experience with them. If you want to contact USDA, you need to go through APHIS; they are the regulators of shipping and documenting plant materials. Good luck with EBay. It seems they would act in your favor given the details, but you never know.

-Dave


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## bigstick120 (Mar 8, 2005)

So it was OK to order from them until they did you wrong?


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## DonaldmBoyer (Aug 18, 2005)

:closed_2: No, I think the point is that "they" keep doing customers wrong, Big!


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## edwardn (Nov 8, 2008)

bigstick120 said:


> So it was OK to order from them until they did you wrong?


I ordered from Aquatic Magic once only. It seemed O.K. at the time of ordering, but it wasn't O.K. already upon receiving!

Then I learned that others had problems with 'them', and that these were a serious problem involving breaking federal rules. And upon checking the pakaging, I also found out that, as in other cases, 'they' swindle US Government and the guilty was somebody like mi - a trusting sucker ordering plants!!!

So that is why it was O.K. to order from 'them' and learn at the same time about dealing with a calculated swindler. And posting a warning for everybody....

One time is too much for me in such a situation, and would there be a timely warning, as in the thread, which is no longer available, I wouldn't risk a penny, not talking about consequences, of which I also wasn' privy!

And it is a pity that said thread was removed, for without clear and permanent warning, Aquatic Magic will continue posting on E-Bay and finding other suckers, who will land with rooten plants and problems with unwitting smuggling plants into US as ...'Home decorations'!

And I hoped all this would be clear just to anybody...


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

EdwardN I bought from them too - not knowing about the certificates needed. I am used to dealing with honest companies. I just assume everyone follows the rules. I understand what you are saying. Everyone isn't so worldly savvy....


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## Valthenya (Feb 11, 2009)

I ordered from them right before this blew up here and my status hasnt changed so i'm hoping they actually shipped it and its just taking time to get here


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## Tex Gal (Nov 1, 2007)

Valthenya said:


> I ordered from them right before this blew up here and my status hasnt changed so i'm hoping they actually shipped it and its just taking time to get here


What Edward is saying is that you can be fined, and marked with the government for smuggling in, illegally, plants from another country. That is what happened to him. He now has a record with the Government. They told him they are keeping an eye on Aquatic Magic for illegal smuggling. You don't want to be caught up in that! They are supposed to be shipping with some sort of certificate which causes inspection of the plants.....


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## hooha (Apr 21, 2005)

Aquatic Magic's forum is gone, as well as all the threads that were in it. I understand your concerns for other potential buyers. APC has taken steps for our members by contacting AquaticMagic over their practices, with the result being the mutual end of their sponsorship on our forum. We have no say over any Aquabid or Ebay transactions, and it would be silly for our site to comment on any transactions there. As with any purchase, it's the buyer's responsibility to research before making a transaction.


If you'd like to post your experiences, free to write a review under the Stores Review. Please keep the review based on facts only, please!


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## edwardn (Nov 8, 2008)

hooha said:


> Aquatic Magic's forum is gone, as well as all the threads that were in it. I understand your concerns for other potential buyers. APC has taken steps for our members by contacting AquaticMagic over their practices, with the result being the mutual end of their sponsorship on our forum. We have no say over any Aquabid or Ebay transactions, and it would be silly for our site to comment on any transactions there. As with any purchase, it's the buyer's responsibility to research before making a transaction.
> 
> If you'd like to post your experiences, free to write a review under the Stores Review. Please keep the review based on facts only, please!


I beg to differ!

It's somehow shocking to learn that... "We have no say over any Aquabid or Ebay transactions, and it would be silly for our site to comment on any transactions there. As with any purchase, it's the buyer's responsibility to research before making a transaction."

And joining this Forum, I thought that I'm joining some sort of a COMMUNITY of all of us with similar interests, looking to solve our problems and help others to solve theirs, as well as learn through reading of experience of others, etc. - all leading to form some sort of virtual ( and not only...) friendship.

In my view of all this, where are we ...'silly' trying to protect each other from unscrupulous ones trying to swindle us, or our Government in their commercial practices by breaking existing laws and competing unfairly with american growers?!

I'm firmly convinved that we ought to warn each other about such plant sellers, as Aquatic Magic, for in their practices there is a very little 'magic', but a whole lot of swindling!!!

And we are not talking here only about receiving rottin plants for our money, but by consciously, or not, we are taking part in a criminal scam, for it was not only I, who received plants smuggled into US under false Custom Declaration as a 'Home ornament', but by checking Aquatic Magic data on E-Bay, there were close to 18 thousand sales, mostly plant orders in the last 12 months!!

Has any, if at all, had been exported to this Country with a plant health certificate, as required by law ?

Just think about this fact: 18 000 times in only last 12 months your Goverment was cheated !!!

What is more - if caught, those 18 000 buyers could be criminally prosecuted for importing plants without license, etc.!!!!!!!!

United we stand....


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## Valthenya (Feb 11, 2009)

Tex Gal said:


> What Edward is saying is that you can be fined, and marked with the government for smuggling in, illegally, plants from another country. That is what happened to him. He now has a record with the Government. They told him they are keeping an eye on Aquatic Magic for illegal smuggling. You don't want to be caught up in that! They are supposed to be shipping with some sort of certificate which causes inspection of the plants.....


i didnt order plants.. i ordered a difuser


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## edwardn (Nov 8, 2008)

He,he... it that case you will get away with a ...misdeminor!

By the way, if you will need another one - I have a brand new, glass one, from Foster & Smith( it was a part of their CO2 setup).


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## Valthenya (Feb 11, 2009)

what do you want for it? i might need another one eventually


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## hooha (Apr 21, 2005)

edwardn said:


> I beg to differ!
> 
> It's somehow shocking to learn that... "We have no say over any Aquabid or Ebay transactions, and it would be silly for our site to comment on any transactions there. As with any purchase, it's the buyer's responsibility to research before making a transaction."
> 
> ...


I understand your frustration over your predicament. The method to further your goal has already been proposed - post a review in the Stores Review section.



edwardn said:


> And we are not talking here only about receiving rottin plants for our money, but by consciously, or not, we are taking part in a criminal scam, for it was not only I, who received plants smuggled into US under false Custom Declaration as a 'Home ornament', but by checking Aquatic Magic data on E-Bay, there were close to 18 thousand sales, mostly plant orders in the last 12 months!!
> 
> Has any, if at all, had been exported to this Country with a plant health certificate, as required by law ?
> 
> ...


Again, you can 'do your part' by posting in the Review section. You can also contact the government about the problem. Seeing how they are likely targeting AM packages, I'm guessing they are aware of it already. Contact E-bay, contact Aquabid. As for APC, we were made aware of the situation and handled it for our members as we were able.

Thinking that a forum or our individual members are responsible to 'fix' that situation is still in my opinion unreasonable - that's what the government is for.

Your point has been made - Aquatic Magic does not follow government rules, people should be aware of it. APC has addressed the issue on our forum - we contacted AM and their sponsorship has ended. If you'd like to address this further on the board - again - you can post a review.

Since this discussion keeps going in circles, remember - if you wish to pursue this further on APC, post a review. Hopefully, I won't have to repeat myself again, as the recommendation will remain the same.


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## dj2606 (Oct 15, 2008)

hooha said:


> Aquatic Magic's forum is gone, as well as all the threads that were in it. I understand your concerns for other potential buyers. APC has taken steps for our members by contacting AquaticMagic over their practices, with the result being the mutual end of their sponsorship on our forum. We have no say over any Aquabid or Ebay transactions, and it would be silly for our site to comment on any transactions there. As with any purchase, it's the buyer's responsibility to research before making a transaction.
> 
> If you'd like to post your experiences, free to write a review under the Stores Review. Please keep the review based on facts only, please!


Although I understand this persons frustration.I must agree with you. It is up to the customer to research before purchasing not after. If they had posted here prior we would have warned not to purchase plants from AM. That is what we the community are here for, to help and provide information for each other.

As for the person who purchased the diffuser from them. Not to worry AM is usually where I purchase my glassware needs (and other non plant orders). The products usually take 2 weeks to arrive. But you will be satisfied with their product. I have ordered from them many times and ADA, to be honest both are equal imo of quality.

I am writing not to rehash wounds but to help this person from future problems with ANY aquatic plant purchase. You must research before you buy. You test drive a car prior to purchase, so post a thread asking if anyone had issues with a company or what their general opinion of their service was. Also always use paypal to complete purchases. Most if not all companies accept them (if they don't, DO NOT bother with them). Paypal protects the customer and company, if there is an issue they will intervene and mediate the situation.

Again I am not attacking anyone here. Just trying to help in future plant purchases.


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## HeyPK (Jan 23, 2004)

I am seeing a desire here for APC to have advice for plant buyers posted prominently, perhaps as a sticky in the Announcements forum, perhaps as an article. I'll see what we can come up with. Any other suggestions or comments?


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## edwardn (Nov 8, 2008)

dj2606 said:


> Although I understand this persons frustration.I must agree with you. It is up to the customer to research before purchasing not after. If they had posted here prior we would have warned not to purchase plants from AM. That is what we the community are here for, to help and provide information for each other.
> 
> As for the person who purchased the diffuser from them. Not to worry AM is usually where I purchase my glassware needs (and other non plant orders). The products usually take 2 weeks to arrive. But you will be satisfied with their product. I have ordered from them many times and ADA, to be honest both are equal imo of quality.
> 
> ...


You and other 'Moderators' talk about a customer's responsibility to do research about risks in seemingly simple act of purchasing of, as prozaic item as it might be an aquarium plant from a seller from a foreign country, and is this paricular case - on E-bay.

Now, how enybody would be able to do that 'research', or, even think about the necessity of such, if the threads like mine seems to by hardly of any welcome on this Forum ( or, at least some posts gave me that impression...)?

I would expect that any act against your Country, no matter how inocuus it might appear to any sideliner, calls for an decisive action and not for choosing sides just because some part of a swindler's practices appear to be legitimate ones.

Would you support any 'cheeter' taking exams in your education process and by this having an unfair advantage over the rest and honest ones?

Has at any time Aquaric Magic filled 1040 or anything of a sort, and paid any taxes as Americans are forced/required to do?

I'm not going to continue this matter ab ovo or da capo al fine, but a continous warning should be posted for all potencial aquatic plant buyers and by doing so - victims of a fraudulent foreigner, in this case - Aquatic Magic from Jahor Bahru, Johor, Malajsia, shipping from Singapore as ...'Home decoration' avoiding to provide required plant health certificate, etc.

I have spoken.


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## dj2606 (Oct 15, 2008)

I can see my advice has fallen upon deaf ears



HeyPK said:


> I am seeing a desire here for APC to have advice for plant buyers posted prominently, perhaps as a sticky in the Announcements forum, perhaps as an article. I'll see what we can come up with. Any other suggestions or comments?


Yes this is a good idea. A thread where people can rate their experience with a company/person. Something like a poll where they rate customer service, shipping costs, shipping speed, etc..


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## houseofcards (Feb 16, 2005)

dj2606 said:


> I can see my advice has fallen upon deaf ears
> 
> Yes this is a good idea. A thread where people can rate their experience with a company/person. Something like a poll where they rate customer service, shipping costs, shipping speed, etc..


I don't think a poll would provide any real benefit. The vast majority of buyers have a positive experience with AM. Just look at the rating on Ebay. And certainly they were a sponsor here for quite sometime before this came to light. The problem is the legality of what they are doing and the risk one takes in ordering plants from them and issues one faces if they are one of the few unlucky ones. HeyPk I think your idea of a sticky of some sort is the best approach.


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

Yes, if we can find a good way to get information across in a sticky, that would be great. Another wonderful way is to do what hooha suggested, post a review in the Store Reviews section. 

-Dave


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## Valthenya (Feb 11, 2009)

How about a review about phytosanitary certificates?


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## bigstick120 (Mar 8, 2005)

OK here it is, if you import plants, you need to obtain a phyto certificate. That is pretty much it. They are expensive.


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## edwardn (Nov 8, 2008)

Rather: when you import plants, you need a permit to do so.

And imported plants have to have phytosanitary certificate, based on which any shipment should undergo inspection on arrival - then, if found free from nematodes, isects, snails, etc., whatever are on a quarantine list - released, possibly treated or destroyed.

Animals additionally undergo specified period of quarantine, also paid for by importer.

For all these steps both importer as well as exporter have to pay!!!

For every shipment!!! Every time!!!


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## Supercoley1 (May 28, 2007)

The issue here is only with the description on the customs certificate. Mistakes are made with payments by loads of suppliers. The more sales they have (Aquatic Magic only does part of it's business on ebay) then the more chance there will be a few bad expereinces. That's probability for you.

I have bought many times from them. Plants, glasware, other equipment etc. All plants healthy, all glassware correct and in perfect condition.

Each country has different rules r.e. things like plants and medicines so it is the purchaser's responsibility to apply the rule of their country in this matter and make sure they are following the law. An international seller cannot afford nor is likely to know very law in every land in the world.

I have never looked at the customs tickets so never really noticed this issue before. If indeed it does say household decoration then to us it may look like avoidance. To a non English speaking person it may be more a case of they see it as household decoration. I personally see my planted tank as a household decoration. It is part of the 'artwork' that I have in my lounge and therefore the description could be taken for what it is.....A translation of the intended use poorly executed due to a language barrier!!!

So aside from the issue of taking a mistaken payment then I see no issue where AM are at fault. At worst then they should be stopped from sending to the US without completing the relevant paperwork correctly and we know what will happen in this case........They will stop selling to US and carry on with the rest of the world.

I shall keep buying form them because they sell quality plants and quality equipment. If I have a bad experience I am sure I will be able to deal with them and correct the problem in a positive manner 

Oh and yes I do research what the law is regarding plant, fish and medicine import into the UK before buying anything!!! Very important to do this in the global market because you cannot expect an international seller to know the laws in every country there is in the world. 

AC


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## milalic (Aug 26, 2005)

edwardn said:


> Rather: when you import plants, you need a permit to do so.
> 
> And imported plants have to have phytosanitary certificate, based on which any shipment should undergo inspection on arrival - then, if found free from nematodes, isects, snails, etc., whatever are on a quarantine list - released, possibly treated or destroyed.
> 
> ...


The exporter passes all costs to you...so he pays nothing.


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## milalic (Aug 26, 2005)

edwardn said:


> You and other 'Moderators' talk about a customer's responsibility to do research about risks in seemingly simple act of purchasing of, as prozaic item as it might be an aquarium plant from a seller from a foreign country, and is this paricular case - on E-bay.
> 
> Now, how enybody would be able to do that 'research', or, even think about the necessity of such, if the threads like mine seems to by hardly of any welcome on this Forum ( or, at least some posts gave me that impression...)?
> 
> ...


First, you sound rude through all the thread and some of your comments are out of taste. I understand your frustration but this does not give you the right to post some of the things you have posted.

There is a review section here in the forum where you can write about your experience with this particular vendor or any other vendor.

APC is not responsible for AquaticMagic actions in Ebay or Aquabid or we have to police what he does in such sites. We have taken the steps to end out relationship with him to protect our members here at APC.

APC is working on a sticky or something else to advice people on international sales, etc.

My opinion: People need to research the internet before buying from overseas. It is buyers responsability to find out what is needed to buy following USA law. If you do a search for 'import plants' and 'import aquatic plants' there is a ton of information about this and even points you to the agencies you need to contact if you need further information. We need to read a little bit more than the first few links, but the information is there.

This thread is close. I encourage everyone that had a problem with this vendor to open a thread in the Store Review Section and rate this vendor and tell your experience.

Have a great weekend


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## hooha (Apr 21, 2005)

edwardn said:


> You and other 'Moderators' talk about a customer's responsibility to do research about risks in seemingly simple act of purchasing of, as prozaic item as it might be an aquarium plant from a seller from a foreign country, and is this paricular case - on E-bay.
> 
> Now, how enybody would be able to do that 'research', or, even think about the necessity of such, if the threads like mine seems to by hardly of any welcome on this Forum ( or, at least some posts gave me that impression...).


Feel free to post a review in the Stores Review section.

I don't know how many times I can repeat that to you without you understanding that's how you can appropriately address your concerns on this site. People can do a search for a vendor, and see what others have said.

It's really that simple, and would address your current complaint. I can't see what your further issue is here, do you want people to show more outrage and make a huge fuss?

*OMG! THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS! i CAN'T BELIEVE IT!*

Oh btw, feel free to post a review in the Stores Review section.


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