# Soil for emersed growing: help please



## jonny_ftm (Feb 26, 2009)

Hi,

This is my first post here. I'm starting a new 11gal (43L) tank modded with 2x11W Arcpod PC fluorescents and an Eheim 2224 canister (185 gph / 700 lph).

I'm starting it following the dry method, so emersed growing than immersion in 2-3 months

I chose Flourite Black Sand over ADA AS for many reasons. Now, I'm left with a big problem: How to provide N and P to my plants in the soil.

I'm thinking to add PO4 and NO3 potassium solutions. Do you think adding to the soil a water with 300ppm NO3 and 45ppm PO4 would work? Based on EI findings, this should give me 3 months PO4 and NO3. I also could add theppm in 2 times...


Anyone could help me sorting this N and P issue?

Many thanks for your help


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## davemonkey (Mar 29, 2008)

I've never done emmersed set-up, but I think 300ppm might burn your plants. In the nursery we shot for 200 ppm N in the soil, I think...it's been many years (and that was for woody shrub species, not tender aquatic plants). Also, consider the fact that AS will release N in the form of ammonia for awhile.

-Dave


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## jonny_ftm (Feb 26, 2009)

Many Thanks for the answer,

I won't be using AS, but Flourite Black Sand, that's why I need to add N and P

In fact, I made many research since my post for converting NPK % fertilizers into ppm using recommended dosages by manufactures.
http://www.firstrays.com/fertcalc.htm

It sounds like 100-150ppm of N is a good dose to avoid burning the roots. So it confirms what you say.

What about P, do you think PO4 is a good source of phosphorus in the soil, as fertilizers use P2O5? I planned adding KH2PO4. And 60ppm PO4 is ok?

K won't be a problem since it is in excess in Flourite.

Again, many thanks for trying to help me


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## Diana K (Dec 20, 2007)

I would suggest whatever dose you end up deciding on that you split it into several applications, not apply it in just one or 2 'lump sums'. 
Perhaps add some once a week, well diluted so there are no 'hot spots'.
If you do not want to add that much water then add the fertilizers, a more concentrated dilution, via syringe to the bottom of the tank, in several locations. The moisture there should further dilute the fertilizer.


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## jonny_ftm (Feb 26, 2009)

Hi,

Thank you for the help,

I think I'll go with your recommendations and diluted ferts to add more regularely. In deed, hot spots and burning roots could cause me issues like you say

Thank you again for your help. I'll be adding some organics in the soil too (earthworm castings prepared) to facilitate teh bacteria establishement and organic P availability

Thank you again for helping me


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## Supercoley1 (May 28, 2007)

I use standard garden compost from the garden centre. Multipurpose stuff. I don't add any nutrients, they are in the compost already and with it being 'swamped' it will continue to create  It gets hot and smells a lot though

AC


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## jonny_ftm (Feb 26, 2009)

Hi and thanks for the info,

I've just read some topic in barrreports but I can't find worm castings in my area. I was hesitating to get some garden compost, labeled "Bio" but now you convinced me (I also found some google info on people using it no issues). I'll boil and filter it though.

Would you mix it with the flourite black sand, 50%-50% as a bottom layer and put another Flourite Black Sand layer on top of it? Any green water or fermentation issues once immersed?


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## Supercoley1 (May 28, 2007)

jonny_ftm said:


> Hi and thanks for the info,
> 
> I've just read some topic in barrreports but I can't find worm castings in my area. I was hesitating to get some garden compost, labeled "Bio" but now you convinced me (I also found some google info on people using it no issues). I'll boil and filter it though.
> 
> Would you mix it with the flourite black sand, 50%-50% as a bottom layer and put another Flourite Black Sand layer on top of it? Any green water or fermentation issues once immersed?


Are you using this emersed or immersed?

And why boil/filter it for either?

AC


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## Zapins (Jul 28, 2004)

I'm not sure if you will find this useful, but here is a guide I wrote on how to do immersed setups the easy way (and cheap way).

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...929-beginner-s-guide-starting-your-first.html


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## jonny_ftm (Feb 26, 2009)

Supercoley1 said:


> Are you using this emersed or immersed?
> 
> And why boil/filter it for either?
> 
> AC


Emersed to start the tank dry for 2 months, and then immersed to have the final aquarium

Boiling/filtering would be necessary for the immersed phase to avoid any dangerous bacteria/parasites. Filtering is to remove floating material that could float once immersed.

At Zapins: I already read your great guide, it will help me for sure for teh dry period, but I can't use it all since my setup will be immersed in a second phase

Anyway, I got answers on barr forum. I'll use this mix as I wrote above and add a very light dosing of N-P, equivalent to my water column to avoid any issues. Boiling and mixing with the flourite, hopefully should avoid fermentation taht I was fearing

I'll feedback once the nano is started to show you the evolution

Thank you again for your help


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## jonny_ftm (Feb 26, 2009)

Hi,

Just to provide a feedback:

I used finally a mix of Flourite Black Sand and earthworm casting (bio label) boiled, topped with a layer of Flourite Black Sand, following barr method

I used water and mulm from my cycled 60gal EI tank: so slight NPK and micro

I vaporize regularely with that water too

Here's how it looked on start



2 weeks later (sorry, but condensation limits front shots. I don't like to remove it to avoid messing the glass with some left sand):





The recipient is to help maintain good humidity. And 2 calibrated Hygrometers to monitor hygrometry reliabely

The tenellus didn't rot and looks great. The P. Helferi grew in size significantely. The C. Parva is nice green and didn't melt.

Still waiting for emerged leaves to appear before claiming success


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