# new to the hobby



## stuckintexas

hey, im in s. arlington looking for good local stores. the only one i know of near me is petorama in mansfield and they are a bit pricey. i have kept fish for years and just now getting into live plants. as of now i just have the want. i plan on buying equipment and plants at the end of the month. in the mean time i will be trying to learn as much as possible and try to find answers to my questions. i have a 65 gallon hex that i will be using. the first thing i am trying to find is appropriate lighting. if you guys can help on that i would appreciate it. also, whats the deal on co2? what is an effective and economical way of getting co2 in my tank? also, what would be a good substrate? i found this--> 

any help is greatly appreciated.


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## Tex Gal

For stores check out this thread 
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/dallas-ft-worth-aquatic-plant-club/49906-stores-visit-area.html

Do a search on this forum for "lighting 65g hex) and see what you come up with. Lighting will depend a whole lot on whether you want to be a high tech tank, (CO2, high light, low foreground plants, dosing fertilizers) or low tech tank. You first need to decide what type of tank you want. Then there is the El Natural type tank that uses dirt, topped with an inert substrate.

You need to do a little research so that you will know what the options are. Here are a few good places to start.
http://www.aquatic-plants.org/articles/basics/pages/index.html
http://www.rexgrigg.com/
http://beginneraquarist.petfish.net/Beginner%20Aquarist/Home.html

So did you join our group? I hope so. Hope to see you at the meeting Sunday at 1pm. After you read some of this you can then ask your questions in person. Since Cheryl will be speaking on fertilizing it might help you decide what type of tank you want. Being in South Arlington I'm not too far from you.


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## stuckintexas

after reading i would like to go with the high tech route i believe. i will probably do the DIY route on the co2 which isnt high tech i know but for the lighting i am preparing to spend as much as necessary to get it right and yes i need to learn about fertilizing. i have decided that i am going to go with 12 liters of the ada aquasoil amazonia though. i definitely want the carpeted foreground so i guess that means i need intense lighting because my tank is 26 inches deep. also i just figured out that my tank is only 42 gallons but still deep. i believe that i will join soon and attend next months meeting. this weekend is pretty packed for me so i doubt i can make it.


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## Tex Gal

Sounds like a good plan. I agree to have a carpet you'll need probably 3wpg unless you go with T5's. There is one plant Marsilea that will carpet at lower light. Most all the others need higher light. With 42g tank you are going to need a way to get that CO2 everywhere. You'll need 2 jars of yeast mixture staggered (1 new every week). That ought to give you enough output for a 42 g. I would suggest you try the tiny efficient CO2 diffuser in this thread. It's cheap and works wonderfully!
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/do-yourself-aquarium-projects/44053-tiny-super-efficient-co2-reactor.html

Good choice with the ADA Amazonia. Just make sure you get the original NOT the Amazonia II. There are problems with the II turning to mud.

Sorry we won't see you this weekend. Sounds like the last 2 issues you need to decide are the ones that are being discussed this month. Look forward to seeing you next time!


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## niko

Stuckintexas,

What is the diameter of your hex tank?

I ask because the lights that you will put over it will have to fit nicely over the tank. If the tank is too small it's hard to find good strong lights for it.

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

niko said:


> Stuckintexas,
> 
> What is the diameter of your hex tank?
> 
> I ask because the lights that you will put over it will have to fit nicely over the tank. If the tank is too small it's hard to find good strong lights for it.
> 
> --Nikolay


12 inch sides, hex tank. 26inches deep...22 inches from side to opposite side. 25 inches from corner to opposite corner. If you can help me make a DIY fixture for 100 bucks or less that would be great. Even if I have to spend 150 I will consider it. I see some nice HQI pendants of about 150W for around 250-300 dollars and thats a bit pricey but I would do it if it was a last resort. I just want appropriate lighting for the plants and fish without turning my room into the sun.

thanks!

oh and who knows...there is always a chance i will make it. if i register the day of on the website, will that work? i understand that i have to be a member to get into the meeting. how do i prove im a member if i were to register at 11am sunday morning?


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## stuckintexas

Tex Gal said:


> Sounds like a good plan. I agree to have a carpet you'll need probably 3wpg unless you go with T5's. There is one plant Marsilea that will carpet at lower light. Most all the others need higher light. With 42g tank you are going to need a way to get that CO2 everywhere. You'll need 2 jars of yeast mixture staggered (1 new every week). That ought to give you enough output for a 42 g. I would suggest you try the tiny efficient CO2 diffuser in this thread. It's cheap and works wonderfully!
> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/do-yourself-aquarium-projects/44053-tiny-super-efficient-co2-reactor.html
> 
> Good choice with the ADA Amazonia. Just make sure you get the original NOT the Amazonia II. There are problems with the II turning to mud.
> 
> Sorry we won't see you this weekend. Sounds like the last 2 issues you need to decide are the ones that are being discussed this month. Look forward to seeing you next time!


i saw at their shop that they have the original amazonia. i can get 12 liters for 40 bucks...not bad. my tanks bottom surface is 336 square inches. do you think 12 liters will be enough?


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## Tex Gal

There is a formula somewhere for how many square inches one 9L bag fills but I don't remember it. Maybe someone else can chime in here. 336 square inches is about 2.5 square feet- if I did the math right. I think one bag might be a little thin. Can you look at the bad and see if you think it will spread that far and still be about 3" deep?


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## stuckintexas

i checked it out and they tell how many liters will give 3 inches deep over a surface area. with one 9 liter bag and a 3 liter bag i will have 12 liters and that will give me a bit more than 3 inches deep to cover my entire surface area. i will also be incorporating some rocks and a large piece of driftwood. i think it should be fine. also, with this substrate, do you still dose your water a bunch?

on a side note, i went by keller farms (haltom city) today and they have some nice german blue rams and bolivian rams for $9.99 a pop, best price ive seen in town and a decent selection to choose from. also their price on cardinal tetras are nice at $2.99 which is also cheaper than ive seen anywhere locally.


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## milalic

You can go to the meetings without being a member so you can check it out and hopefully join it there.

Hope to see you on Sunday,



stuckintexas said:


> 12 inch sides, hex tank. 26inches deep...22 inches from side to opposite side. 25 inches from corner to opposite corner. If you can help me make a DIY fixture for 100 bucks or less that would be great. Even if I have to spend 150 I will consider it. I see some nice HQI pendants of about 150W for around 250-300 dollars and thats a bit pricey but I would do it if it was a last resort. I just want appropriate lighting for the plants and fish without turning my room into the sun.
> 
> thanks!
> 
> oh and who knows...there is always a chance i will make it. if i register the day of on the website, will that work? i understand that i have to be a member to get into the meeting. how do i prove im a member if i were to register at 11am sunday morning?


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## CherylR

Like milalic said, folks can come to ONE meeting as a guest without joining to check it out. Then you got to pony up $10 for half-year dues. And there will be a large Bulgarian at the meeting checking to make sure everyone has paid. Scared the bejeezus out of me my first meeting. ;-)


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## JAXON777

if you still havent got german blue rams pet o rama in bedford has them for 7.99 a piece


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## stuckintexas

thanks for the replies. i have not set up the tank for plants yet due to the expense. the biggest problem is the lighting. i have a 42 gallon hex and its 26 inches deep. because of the dimensions of the tank it seems that i have to go with metal halide lighting and its not cheap. there is a great light that ive seen working at the LFS but its made by coralife and costs about 300 bucks. it also comes with a 14000k bulb but that wont work so i will have to spend another 40 bucks on a 6700k bulb.

after i get my tank planted then i will buy the fish. so thanks for the tip on the rams, i will check it out.

also, does anyone have any suggestions for my lighting problems? can i go with a cheaper CF lighting system and still keep plants alive? are there any low light plants that look good?

ok i did some looking, again i want to stress that the biggest thing stopping me from getting this going is money, especially lighting. the next highest cost is the filtration. right now im running an aquaclear 300 which is a hang on back type filter. i want to upgrade to a rena x2 can filter and that is about 140 dollars. i cannot buy the filter and the uber expensive MH HQI type lighting. so what do you think of this lighting instead, its T5. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~24_inch_Current_USA_Nova_Extreme_2x24_watt_T5_HO_10K_Freshwater_Freshwater_Aquarium_Supplies_Lighting_Fixtures_T5_Lighting~vendor~Current_USA~SearchStr~10k%20freshwater,freshwater~action~view~idProduct~CU01127~idCategory~FWLTFIT5~tab~4.html
what sort of plants can i grow with this light that would be beneficial to my fish and would also look nice?

another option is go with this HQI light which is only 150 bucks. if i did this i could probably also buy the rena filter still. http://www.fishneedit.com/150w-metal-halide-pendant-lig.html

i just need some help. i have no experience with aquatic plants so i really dont know how important buying the uber nice HQI light is vs going with a 70 dollar 48W TF HO lighting system. If I can grow plants with the T5 then its a no brainer i think. I will be adding co2 and dosing ferts but as of right now i havent gotten into the whole dosing thing except that it looks like EI method is the easiest for me. I just want to avoid algae and I want a good looking tank for my fish to live in and for me to see.

HELP!

thanks.


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## CrownMan

Check on KensFish.com for prices on the filter. I bought a Filstar II a couple of weeks ago for my new tank for much less. I also bought extra supplies, a couple of Filter Max IIs, etc. Received everything as ordered. A club member also recommends their fish food and they sell the Kordon Breather Bags for transporting fish.

Worth checking out IMHO.


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## milalic

Go with T5...You can get the goodies at reefgeek.net. 
kensfish.com or bigalsonline.com for the filter. <- less expensive



stuckintexas said:


> thanks for the replies. i have not set up the tank for plants yet due to the expense. the biggest problem is the lighting. i have a 42 gallon hex and its 26 inches deep. because of the dimensions of the tank it seems that i have to go with metal halide lighting and its not cheap. there is a great light that ive seen working at the LFS but its made by coralife and costs about 300 bucks. it also comes with a 14000k bulb but that wont work so i will have to spend another 40 bucks on a 6700k bulb.
> 
> after i get my tank planted then i will buy the fish. so thanks for the tip on the rams, i will check it out.
> 
> also, does anyone have any suggestions for my lighting problems? can i go with a cheaper CF lighting system and still keep plants alive? are there any low light plants that look good?
> 
> ok i did some looking, again i want to stress that the biggest thing stopping me from getting this going is money, especially lighting. the next highest cost is the filtration. right now im running an aquaclear 300 which is a hang on back type filter. i want to upgrade to a rena x2 can filter and that is about 140 dollars. i cannot buy the filter and the uber expensive MH HQI type lighting. so what do you think of this lighting instead, its T5. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~24_inch_Current_USA_Nova_Extreme_2x24_watt_T5_HO_10K_Freshwater_Freshwater_Aquarium_Supplies_Lighting_Fixtures_T5_Lighting~vendor~Current_USA~SearchStr~10k%20freshwater,freshwater~action~view~idProduct~CU01127~idCategory~FWLTFIT5~tab~4.html
> what sort of plants can i grow with this light that would be beneficial to my fish and would also look nice?
> 
> another option is go with this HQI light which is only 150 bucks. if i did this i could probably also buy the rena filter still. http://www.fishneedit.com/150w-metal-halide-pendant-lig.html
> 
> i just need some help. i have no experience with aquatic plants so i really dont know how important buying the uber nice HQI light is vs going with a 70 dollar 48W TF HO lighting system. If I can grow plants with the T5 then its a no brainer i think. I will be adding co2 and dosing ferts but as of right now i havent gotten into the whole dosing thing except that it looks like EI method is the easiest for me. I just want to avoid algae and I want a good looking tank for my fish to live in and for me to see.
> 
> HELP!
> 
> thanks.


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## stuckintexas

thanks. ill look into it. i am also going to grow this "HC" plant i believe for my carpet. i read on the tom barr report that HC and glosso both grow fine in lower light conditions, they get lower light in the wild anyway, right? so what does HC stand for?


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## milalic

stuckintexas said:


> thanks. ill look into it. i am also going to grow this "HC" plant i believe for my carpet. i read on the tom barr report that HC and glosso both grow fine in lower light conditions, they get lower light in the wild anyway, right? so what does HC stand for?


I think most people have success with HC in high light tanks. Have not seen what Tom has to say about this. Our plantfinder here is done by Cavan Allen which is a very knowledgeable in aquatic plants.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/details.php?id=51


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## stuckintexas

tom specifically said that these will grow in low light and most people make a false limitation on themselves by thinking that they cant grow it in low light.


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## milalic

stuckintexas said:


> tom specifically said that these will grow in low light and most people make a false limitation on themselves by thinking that they cant grow it in low light.


Seems like Tom has you completely convinced. It might be that most people are wrong or doing things wrong. let us know how it goes in low light.

have a great day.


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## stuckintexas

hmmm. you really doubt that this will work?

btw, what does HC stand for?


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## davemonkey

stuckintexas said:


> hmmm. you really doubt that this will work?
> 
> btw, what does HC stand for?


Hi, I'm sorry to butt in on the DFWAPC forum, but I have experience with HC in lower light and thought I could provide some info.

HC is _Hemianthus callitricoides _ , aka, Dwarf Baby Tears, and needs either high light or moderate light with VERY good CO2 and ferts. I tried this with moderate light in a 50 gal (it sat about 15" from the light source), about 2 WPG of Power Compact Lighting and it all melted out. I did not have CO2 at the time, but my ferts were on par. I tried it later with 2WPG in a 50 gal with CO2 and ferts and it still did very poorly.

I would not try this species again without higher lighting.

-Dave

Again, sorry for butting in. :neutral:


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## stuckintexas

thanks dave. can you suggest a nice lowlight carpet plant?


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## milalic

milalic said:


> Seems like Tom has you completely convinced. It might be that most people are wrong or doing things wrong. let us know how it goes in low light.
> 
> have a great day.


HC = HEMIANTHUS CALLITRICHOIDES


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## davemonkey

stuckintexas said:


> thanks dave. can you suggest a nice lowlight carpet plant?


The only foreground plant I've had good results with in Low Light is Cryptocpyne. (If you wound up going to the last DFW meeting at TexGal's, you may have seen the _Crypt. willisii x lucens 'bronze' _, that's what I am currently using.) It grows more slowly than most foreground plants, but it looks great and is very low maintenance. _C. willisii _or _C. lucens _are about the same.

_Echinodorus tenellus_ may grow in low light, but it would be better in moderate light. Other moderate light foregrounds that are easy are _Marsilea sp_. , _Lilaeopsis sp_. , and _Blyxa japonica_.

Since your aquarium is taller (am I right in assuming this?), you could use a taller plant for a foreground cover. _Anubias 'nana' _tied to rocks, _A. 'petite' _(if you can find enough for cheap enough), a vast array of _Cryptocoryne_s..., you could also use moss as a foreground cover.


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## stuckintexas

excellent dave, i will look into those. i do recall reading that moss doesnt need much light. you are right my tank is 26 inches deep and am planning on 3 inches deep of aquasoil amazonia. i love the look of the longer straight and thin leafed plants. i need to look in the plant finder to see what they are called and how well they will grow with the t5ho lighting that i will most likely use...i guess its only 48 watts total...a 10000k bulb along with a 6700k i believe. 

would anyone suggest that i start off with some stem plants, fast growers?

these look nice:
HYGROPHILA POLYSPERMA
CRYPTOCORYNE X WILLISII 'LUCENS'
CRYPTOCORYNE UNDULATA
ANUBIAS BARTERI VAR. NANA 'MARBLE'
ANUBIAS BARTERI VAR. NANA 'PETITE'
MICROSORUM PTEROPUS
ECHINODORUS TENELLUS <----exactly the plant i was trying to describe...awesome
BLYXA JAPONICA


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## stuckintexas

ok i was told by the guy at the lfs not to start a new tank with crypts.


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## CherylR

Which store was it? Mostly we don't listen to them. Fast-growing stem plants include various ludwigia species, limnophilia, cabomba, rotala, also hygrophilia and water wisteria.


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## Tex Gal

CherylR said:


> Which store was it? Mostly we don't listen to them.


LOL - Cracks me up! ound:


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## stuckintexas

The True Percula in SW arlington off little road and I-20. He only works on saturdays and he is their most knowledgeable guy on plants and fish. the whole reason i went in there yesterday was because i knew he would be there. he seemed to know what he was talking about and i really appreciated the 1.5 hours he dedicated to me, obviously he enjoys this stuff. although, i have to say he put so much info on me that i cant remember everything he said, i shoulda taken notes...lol. he really started confusing me when it came to dosing ferts. overall i would say its a good store but a bit pricey (who isnt unless you go online?)

back to the point, he said the crypts are prone to new tanks because the melt...of course they will grow back but he said "why bother with them until the tank is more established?"


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## CherylR

Refreshing as it is to encounter a friendly, caring, honest salesperson instead of whatever teenager happens to be working the fish aisle this week, I still say this person is wrong.

I have been in this hobby 20 years and have never had a crypt melt. Ever. I have yanked 'em up, hacked off half their roots and leaves, rudely stuffed them into another tank, and had them take off beautifully.

I know that others have had massive crypt melts and I know that it has to be heartbreaking. Not to mention messy. But it happens in established tanks as often as new tanks. So I still think what I thunk before: Don't listen to store employees.


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## stuckintexas

so how do crypts do in low light? i will go with them as i like the way that they look, but i wont be having a ton of light. im working with niko now on getting a t5 geissman(sp?) fixture made and it will only be 2 bulbs 23" long.

Also, niko told me not to order plants online because there is a chance i can receive crap. I am going to join this club and i would like to buy plants from people around here, especially if they are in the club. where do i look? who should i contact? is this the best way to acquire plants? are they very expensive? i know, i know...lots of questions.

the plants im interested in are:
HETERANTHERA ZOSTERIFOLIA
BLYXA JAPONICA
HYGROPHILA POLYSPERMA
LOBELIA CARDINALIS
LOBELIA CARDINALIS 'SMALL FORM'
LYSIMACHIA NUMMULARIA 'AUREA'
MICRANTHEMUM UMBROSUM
MYRIOPHYLLUM MATTOGROSSENSE 
POTAMOGETON GAYI
ROTALA SP. 'GREEN' - good one
HYGROPHILA POLYSPERMA
ANUBIAS BARTERI VAR. NANA 'MARBLE'
ANUBIAS BARTERI VAR. NANA 'PETITE'
MICROSORUM PTEROPUS
ECHINODORUS TENELLUS
and various crypts that i need to add back to my list
subwassertang
java moss

i only want the ones that my lighting will support. i will be doing co2 and ferts probably daily as thats what ive read to do.

if you guys have plants, let me know...id love to buy them.

also, if i do buy them, do i need to plant them right away? can they sit for a day or two? jeez, i have much to learn.

thank you.


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## stuckintexas

CherylR said:


> Refreshing as it is to encounter a friendly, caring, honest salesperson instead of whatever teenager happens to be working the fish aisle this week, I still say this person is wrong.
> 
> I have been in this hobby 20 years and have never had a crypt melt. Ever. I have yanked 'em up, hacked off half their roots and leaves, rudely stuffed them into another tank, and had them take off beautifully.
> 
> I know that others have had massive crypt melts and I know that it has to be heartbreaking. Not to mention messy. But it happens in established tanks as often as new tanks. So I still think what I thunk before: Don't listen to store employees.


you have me thinking about another thing the guy at the LFS told me. he recommended that i add peat to my canister filter to soften the water and adjust the ph. i plan on having german blue rams, cardinal tetras, maybe some harlequin rasboras, maybe some neons, i will have some otos eventually, and i will have some panda cories. is there any reason to add this peat? one box of peat by fluval will cost around 10 bucks and he recommended that i use one box a month, by throwing the entire box in a media bag and putting it in the filter. is this necessary?


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## Tex Gal

If you're going to use Aqua Soil you don't need any peat. It has peat in it I believe. At any rate it lowers the pH for you. You won't want it any lower. Your CO2 will also lower your pH. Your plants will grow fine. 

I, as well, have never experienced a crypt melt. I have also changed things around, different tanks, CO2 and no CO2. I just got come small Crypts from Davemonkey and they are sprouting new leaves right and left. I also have just put crypt stems (it's how they came to me), in my 125g and they are also sprouting leaves right and left. 

I think you just need to jump in and start your tank. You can learn as you go. Plants can be weird. What you can grow wonderfully in one tank will die a thousand deaths in another right beside it. You can only do so much research. There's no substitute for trial and error experience!


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## stuckintexas

that sounds more fun than racking my brain with all the reading. i believe i have learned enough to get started. now its time to find these plants. anyone have any subwassertang? i will add it to the list above of possible wanteds.

texgal, do you know the "lifetime" of aquasoil, does it ever wear out and not provide the nutrients that it does from the beginning and does it stop lowering the ph and everything else it does from the start?

thanks.


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## CherylR

If you join the club, then any plants we have are yours for free. It is against the rules for members to sell plants to each other except to reimburse for postage etc.


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## stuckintexas

that sounds great.

ok, i am looking to do a foreground with plants like:
Sagittaria subulata
Lobelia cardinalis 'Small Form'
Blyxa japonica

subwassertang, java moss, phoenix moss i think its called...that would be great.


if anyone has any of these please let me know. maybe one of these days ill be able to trade but as of now i have nada.

i dont mind paying for any plants also so if you know of any reputable growers, i will order. i just read that if i get any plants from you guys, im not allowed to buy them. i also read in this thread i believe that buying online doesnt have great results.


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## niko

Aha, here he goes into this hobby full blast!

You live in the right place Dave, we will support your new obsession every step of the way! 

Free plants galore and abundant advice for sure! 

--Nikolay


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## Tex Gal

stuckintexas said:


> that sounds more fun than racking my brain with all the reading. i believe i have learned enough to get started. now its time to find these plants. anyone have any subwassertang? i will add it to the list above of possible wanteds.
> 
> texgal, do you know the "lifetime" of aquasoil, does it ever wear out and not provide the nutrients that it does from the beginning and does it stop lowering the ph and everything else it does from the start?
> 
> thanks.


I have suwassertang. I just put some in a grid to grow flat. I like to do that because then you can cut the grid into shapes to nest around rocks and trees at the bottom. It stays in one place and then grows up to form a bush.

I don't know about the life of aquasoil. I have read on the forums that it's about a year or 1.5 yrs. I also read a thread where Jeff Senske, (part owner of ADG), used some that was about 1 or 2 years old in another tank and it did great. My shrimp tank has been set up for 10 months and it's fine.

All this talking back and forth - did you ever join?


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## stuckintexas

im at work now, ill join when i get home tonight. im a busy student and i have a job...this is my last semester to get my BSEE. im a wreck right now as the semester just started. it will take me a few weeks to get into the groove as usual.

oh an niko, in addition to the lighting that ive ordered, ive ordered dry ferts and filtration and everything else i will need to get this going...except the substrate. maybe ill order that tonight.

so yea, when i get everything in and the lights complete, ill be ready to rock.

thanks texgal, i would love to come by and get some of that subwasser...and do you rinse the aquasoil before putting it in the tank?


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## Tex Gal

No, don't rinse the aquasoil. Follow the directions. Your tank will be cloudy at first but should clear up quickly. Get your plants in right away so they can use the ammonia that will be released. You'll have a beautiful tank in no time at all!

pm me when your ready for the subwassertang.


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## stuckintexas

Ok, I am now a member.

Looks like the next meeting is in Joshua at some person named Drenda's house. Not too far for me being that I live in S. Arlington so I should be there. I will be looking for plants as I have none now. Is there a good place to post the plants I would love to have so members who have them could see and possible bring clippings?

Also, Texgal...I am thinkng of putting my aquasoil in a container with water and change the water daily for a couple weeks until the ammonia is gone instead of doing this in my tank. do you think this will work? I want to do this so I don't disturb my bacteria in my tank. I fear that a huge ammonia spike could mess up the population I have...if I wait until the ammonia is gone to add the aquasoil to my tank then I should be good to up my fish load right away after I get it planted.


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## niko

The meeting in Joshua was in August.

September's meeting will probably be in the downtown Dallas area.

--Nikolay


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## stuckintexas

i have a question in another thread, here it is

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/general-aquarium-plants-discussions/54940-baby-tears-question.html

can anyone answer this?


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## stuckintexas

change in plans. looks like im going to plant my tank today (saturday) and all i have to start with is some hygrophilia. if anyone in the area has any fast growers that can handle lower light please let me know and i could come grab them. thanks. i also have some sunset and roundifola going in the mail to me tomorrow i hope.


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## stuckintexas

progress can be found here
http://http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/dallas-ft-worth-aquatic-plant-club/55198-starting-up-today.html

fixed, thanks cheryl


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## CherylR

The tank looks a lot better if you take one of the "http://" 's off!


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